From a little park, California in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's the cube covering cloud now. Awards 2020 brought to you by Silicon angle media. Here's Sonya to garden. Hi and welcome to the cube. I'm your host Sonia to Gary. And we're on the ground at Facebook headquarters in Menlo park, California covering cloud nows, top women entrepreneurs in cloud innovation awards. Joining us today is Christine Heckart, CEO of scaler. Christine, welcome to the cube. Thank you. So you're receiving an award today for being one of the top women in cloud. Um, how do you feel about that? >>Oh, it's always terrible to get an award. I mean, it's awesome. I'm very honored to be here. >>Awesome. Um, so give us a little brief overview of your background. >>Oh, 30 years in tech. Um, let's same now. I'm CEO of scaler. So we're a log analytics company. We scale to over a hundred terabytes a day in the cloud at ridiculously affordable prices. And we serve some of the best tech companies in the world. We sell into engineers and developers. >>And so you've been CEO for over a year now. What's that experience been like? What challenges have you faced along the way? >>Uh, exhilarating experience if you've never been at a startup? Um, it's a great place to be. It's a phenomenal team. Challenges are all about how you grow and how you serve customers well on a limited set of resource with unlimited choice sets and opportunities. And that's hard thing to do. >>So you've been an executive for quite a while now. What's the best part about being a CEO? >>The people are the best part. Um, both the employees. We have some incredible employees, very energized about the mission, very dedicated, uh, and then absolutely amazing customers that we serve. These, you know, we serve engineers whereby accompanied by engineers for engineers and engineers innovate to change the world. And our job is to help them innovate with more confidence so they can change the world more quickly. And so you're feeding into all these incredible missions around the world with these incredible people and you're helping them do their job better. And it's just every day is different and every day is fun. >>So what are the, some of the things that have influenced you along the way or some of the people who have influenced you? >>Jeez. Um, you know, I guess I'm influenced mostly by the people who I worked with and who have worked for me. Um, even more so maybe than the people I've worked for, although they've also been fabulous. Um, I just think you learn from, you learn from all the talent around you in the way people think differently about problems and, and how that synergy, um, often creates just magical outcomes. >>So as a CEO, um, what kind of workplace culture are striving to achieve? >>Uh, we have picked just one value and there are other companies that I think are doing the same and the value and we picked us care. And so we really strive to have a culture that encourages people to care about each other and care about the company's mission, uh, care about serving customers well and, and building a very high quality product with great experience, but also care about the environment and care about the community and care about people's lives outside of the day to day work job. Um, so we try to take a really holistic view, but on one key attribute, which is care. >>Well that's, that's awesome. I think everyone wants to go to work and, and just feel like, you know, that they're not bogged down by long hours or that >>we still have long hours. There's no doubt about that, but it's carrying long hours right there. Appreciate it. Yeah. Um, so what advice would you give to women who are considering a career in tech? I love tech. I've been 30 years in tech. I go out of my way to get people into the industry. Um, I do believe in all of its facets. It's the greatest industry in the history of history. I really do believe that it's also a hard place to work. It's a demanding place to work. Um, it's still hard place to work for women. Um, and any, I think kind of minority, uh, it's not as welcoming yet as it could be, but relative to 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, we've made enormous progress. I still believe we are making enormous progress and there's work to go, but it's very encouraging. >>That's great. Um, so, um, after being in the industry for a while, have you figured out a work life balance? Is there a secret? Is it a myth? >>Um, I am not the person to ask about work life balance for sure. Uh, most people would probably say I don't have it. Um, I don't look at it as balanced so much as, um, maybe juggling, like you just prioritize what's important in the moment. Um, I do believe in that. One of the great things about tech is usually you can do your job anytime from anywhere. Um, and you know, that has good and bad. So I tend to do my job all times everywhere. But you can do your job all times, everywhere and, and sometimes that's from home. And sometimes that's from other places, you know, anywhere around the world. >>And I'm sure especially as like, you know, moms and stuff like it's, it's great to have that flexibility. Um, and um, so, okay. So as a CEO, what do you think makes you a great leader? >>Um, I think any great leader is a leader who cares about their mission and their employees, uh, as people and not just as workers, um, and their customers as people and their, their holistic careers in their lives, not just as a source of revenue. So that's one of the reasons why we picked that value care is that, you know, it's super important for any leader at any level. What do you think leaders can do to, to make that, make it more welcoming for women in tech to be part of this industry? Um, it's not, this is not a question about women or any, anybody in particular, what people value is being appreciated and being included and being heard. That's it. Like, if you, if, if you can create an environment that is inclusive, where people can be heard and can be valued for what they contribute and their ideas, then I think, you know, it's a great place to work and, and, and that's a hard thing to do. It's white. It's easy to say. It's very hard to do culturally. Um, but I, I really think it's that simple. Well, thank you so much, Christine, for being on the. It's always great to have you here. Thank you for having me again. I'm sending it to Gary. Thanks for watching the cube. Stay tuned for more.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. Part of AW re:invent, of course. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have two guests for this segment. We have Leandro Nunes. He is the Vice President of Product Development at Mastercard. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Christine Leong, she is the Managing Director, Accenture Blockchain and Biometrics. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> So sustainability is a hot topic in the industry, in all industry today and especially here at AWS re:Invent. I want to talk to you about circular supply chain which was an idea that germinated in your brain a couple of years ago, but it really just sort of launched a year ago. Tell us more about why you started CSC. >> Sure. We started this actually because, a couple of things. We drink coffee every single day, and as we go into every coffee shop and we think about, well, you see packets saying this is my single origin coffee. I pay extra for this and it's sustainably grown and yet so see news saying that the rain forest is being burned down and animals are being killed. And so about two years ago, I looked at this and I thought, "Wow, how do I know "this is really sustainable, what I'm drinking?" The extra five bucks that I'm paying at my coffee shop, is it really single origin? Is it really going to the right people? Is it really killing the orangutans and the rainforest and then I see a statistic that says, well, for every cup of coffee that we drink, a square inch of rainforest gets burned down. And, I mean, I drink at least five cups of coffee a day. So that's not good, right? So then I thought, and working, actually, with Mastercard at the time, I'm doing and still do actually do a lot of work with Mastercard around identity and biometrics and I thought, "Well, how can we combine "some of these capabilities we have "with Blockchain identity to say, "to put our money where our mouths is?" To change the incentives at the base of the pyramid where farmers, producers, smallholders. If I can say to them that I really want to care that you don't burn the forest down, that you produce in a good way. And they're just trying to survive. They're not bad people, if they are just hand to mouth. That if we can say, right, we'll pay you more as consumers and we know it's definitely going to that right person, then maybe we can help to change some of, you know, and not have the rainforests and not have my guilty cup of coffee, right? >> So even if we don't drink quite as much coffee as you, Christine, we are as a group, consumers are more socially conscious than they ever have been. What are some of the statistics here? That people just care more about this stuff, in general, and they're willing to pay premium for it. >> So, for example, the green trade is estimated, this came out from Unilever, at $2 trillion a year, by next year actually. I mean, that's a staggering statistic and as you see more and more on social media, on literally every platform that you can see. Sustainability is a huge topic with the recent UN climate discussions. I mean, next week in Madrid, it's a big topic that we should all, as responsible responsible consumers, care about. >> So Leandro, what do you see as the benefits of CSC of small actors? >> Well, it's a great point, because when you seriously think about it you usually say a lot about consumers and the big brands. And now we are protecting the big brands, but just think about the sourcing side of the supply chain, right? The small communities, the ones that are growing the coffee, the ones that are the farmers over there or the fishermen. Now, these ones have been there for a while, they are just being kind of squeezed by the whole supply chain, squeezed by the whole business. Right? You think like let's remove a little bit of their margin, let's put it into something else. Now, when you have the circle of supply chain, because consumers in this new generation is so interested in knowing where the product comes from, if they are doing the right thing. Now there's a chance that you can pay them back. It's all about coming up with an incentive model, that's what we see with Mastercard, right? When you create a network like that, which the Blockchain solution is, it's a big network. So how we can gain traction, how we can gain adoption? One thing is, you need to establish incentives through all of the parties that you have in the network. So if you're just taking care of the brand and they're going to say, "Brands, mandate to your suppliers "that needs to do that." This is not going to work. What will work is, what is the incentive the farmers are going to have? What is the sourcing? So, wait a minute. So, don't you think the farmers want to do the right thing? Of course they do, but do they have incentives for that? If it's just a letter, or if it's just someone mandating, they're not going to do it. But if you come with the idea of, "Hey, I pay you back your coffee "or whatever your product you're doing, "you can have a premium. "It's going to be sustainable to your family as well. "Your business can be more profitable." So they will see, "Okay, I want to be part of it." >> So, it's creating incentives for people, for the producers themselves to grow things more sustainably. >> It's all about that, it's not only them. And then you go to the suppliers, you go to the logistics, transportation companies. You give them the visibility. They always complain about, "How can I have the visibility of my supply chain?" "Why?" "Can you create the visibility?" You give the transparency that you create the trust. And if you'll ask people in a supply chain business what the big problem is in supply chain, it's trust. They don't trust each other, but they have to trade things and they don't trust each other. You do business with people you don't trust every single day. It's not a good thing. So, if you bring this visibility, you facilitate this and they see there's an incentive to be also part of it. >> So Christine, what are the kinds of technologies that are powering the CSC and how does it create that trust or cultivate that trust? >> And Leandro is spot on in terms of trust. It's about trusting the people, but trusting the data and trusting the entities that put in some of the data. There are components of Blockchain, of course, that serve the traceability aspects of any of the product. Blockchain also helps with the decentralized identity capability that we've put in. We've made also biometrics for the individual, but this is optional, depending on how, in terms of using it very responsibly. Payments of course, digital payments and having the ability to actually direct payments through the Mastercard rails. And then, of course, with the power of AWS and then hosting it on the cloud and be able to have that anywhere. And the different aspects of including IoT, so we know that let's say for fisheries, this product actually really came from this place, you know, there's sensors, we know that it's kept at the right temperature, therefore insurance payoffs and things like that will be right and tracked all the way through and knowing that the product is really fresh and really kept intact throughout the journey. So a whole bunch of different technology. >> Totally agreed. Projects with Blockchain only tend not to succeed and the reason is because you need to nurture the ecosystem. So how you bring the IoT-- >> Yes. >> To the table, how you bring payments, how you bring AI. You get all these solutions together and then you create what this visibility, that's the trust we need. Companies who are trying to do one side, which is just the Blockchain, they are not going anywhere. The reason that I like their alliance with Accenture and AWS is because we know that we needed to do this end-to-end and this is going to be broader than just talking about Blockchain. >> Rebecca: Yes. >> And it's about the people, because you have to, ultimately it's the consumer and the base of the pyramid, producer. Both have identities, and if we are able to say, "This is the identity of the person," I can then help to influence their livelihoods. >> So it's putting a real face on the supply chain for the end consumer. I mean, at a time where consumers are demanding more transparency in the supply chain, demanding to know more about the source of the goods, of the products that they're buying, what has been the reception and what are you hearing back? >> I think we've had great receptions. We launched it at Davos, earlier this year. We've had a huge amount of interest and now slowly we're gaining sort of traction in terms of getting the pilots and putting them in place. And I think it's also something that people need to, initially it's a little bit of education, understanding, well, how does this actually all work? You know, is it just traceability? Is it just identity? Or is it actually all of those things? Understanding the use cases and embracing that it's not just one way of doing something and it's really a concept of embracing better business through better technology and innovation can actually be more sustainable and responsible businesses. So the traction has been great and we have a number of pilots in the pipeline. >> Yeah, in the past I used to believe that some things we should stop doing or stop eating because of the sustainable part of it, and I have learned that is not the case. You can do the right thing, you can make sure that you are doing the right thing and you can eat with no guilt. That's what everybody wants, right? This is the type of visibility you want to give from the consumer side, but not from the company side of it. The brands are, "Okay, I'm safe," because brands, they have a very good visibility from the distributor on, but they don't know what's going on behind that, and our products, this is so globalized nowadays, so fragmented. You know, it comes from so many different places. Brands, there is no way that they can control it if they don't have this veil. That's why we're trying to bring together. >> So when this fully does launch and the consumer is then seeing the face of the coffee grower in Brazil or in Kenya-- >> Yeah. >> And saying, "Okay," so then what happens then? How are they able to incentivize that farmer to do the right thing, as you say? >> There is a digital payment channel, powered by Mastercard, that you can then tip, so to speak, tip the farmer, donate money and actually say, "Well, there's multiple ways of doing things." Right? For example, if I'm the consumer scanning the product and we have a whole Lego city built upstairs that can showcase this, and say, "Right, this is how it works," and scan the product and where I can say, "Right, I want to be able "to donate an extra dollar for this farmer "because I really like the fact that you are sustainable. "And not burning the rainforest down "and protecting the orangutans or elephants or the birds. "So great, I'm going to give you an extra dollar." So this is how it's going to work on the app. >> And there are other consequences as well. There are so many organic products nowadays, but they're not really organic. So if you can prove they're organic, the farmers would feel more motivated to really grow that as an organic product because there is a premium. So it's not only the tip that you give to them, but also the fact that you can create a premium price situation that will motivate others to do the same. So brands would give the differentiator, farmers would feel like, "Okay, if I do this way, "it would be more profitable," and consumers would benefit from a real organic or a real product with the sustainability behind it. >> Great, consumers can trust more. >> Exactly. >> It's not just fake news. What are some of the, I mean, this is such a cool concept. What are some of the biggest challenges in really launching it and making it a reality? What is keeping you up at night? >> I think some of it is actually just education and getting it out there. And understanding that this is a lot of stakeholders. So, from consumer brands all the way down to the smallholder providers. It's a lot of people to link up and a lot of organizations to talk to. So some of it is just getting through that process and getting people to understand. Also, actually, hopefully we'll get consumers to adopt. >> Yeah. >> And understand that this is something that they will want to do. >> Yeah, this whole integration, like Christine said, it is important, right? So you understand all the key stakeholders. It don't need to be all of them at the beginning, but at least the key stakeholders in a supply chain. And how you can create the business incentive model for them to be part of that. So it's a mapping exercise. We're getting there and that's where you gain adoption, and if you get the consumer side doing this as well, so it creates a network effect. And that's why we're trying to do it at Mastercard. It's in our DNA, like, build the networks, right. Everybody knows that. So we wanted to bring this to the ecosystem, to contribute that, okay, so how can I create a network effect that they can exponentially scale for their whole marketshare, for their whole marketplace. >> I want to ask you a personal question. You've been in technology for a really long time and now-- >> Not that old though. >> (laughing) No, no. You're just a babe. But in terms of of the kinds of projects you've worked on and the kinds of ways you're thinking about technology and then this particular project at a time where climate change is a monumental challenge and the fate of our planet really hangs in the balance with the decisions that we're making, policy makers and consumers are making today. I mean, what is it like to work on this kind of product? >> That's a great question. Yeah, well, for all of these years, I go to work with this business mentality, you know, you're going to make more money for someone else. You're going to work for big company. And see some friends and family doing things for the society, I say, "Oh my gosh, I should do something like that." And now I feel like I can do both. We're talking now as a business. It's a great solution, but it mixes so well for the, you know, for the whole society. It makes me feel really, everyday going to work and say, "Oh, this is what I want to do. "This is so cool." I mean, I'm helping, I'm benefiting myself 'cause I go to the supermarket, I'm going to be the one who's going to tip the farmer. I'm going to be the one who's going to check where my shrimp comes from, right? So I'm doing this for my family. My kids are, I hope they can live in a better planet that know exactly where the products come from. >> And the family that you have that's not even been born yet, so that's the other thing, too, helping future generations. >> That's amazing. We're doing things that, we never know. >> Yes, you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, Leandro. (all laughing) Thank you so much, Leandro and Christine, for coming on theCUBE. A really fun and fascinating conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage at the Accenture Executive Summit coming up after lunch. (upbeat music)

by from Las Vegas it's the cube coverage AWS executive summary brought to you by Accenture hello everyone and welcome back to the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas part of aw reinvent of course I'm your host Rebecca Knight we have two guests for this segment we have Leandro Nunez he is the vice president product development at MasterCard thank you so much for coming on the show thanks for having me and Christine Leung she is the managing director Accenture blockchain and biometrics thank you so much you so sustainability is a hot topic in the industry too in all industry today and especially here at AWS reinvent I want to talk to you about circular supply chain which was an idea that germinated in your brain a couple of years ago but it's really just sort of launched a year ago tell us more about why you started Cs sure we started this actually because a couple of things I we drink coffee every single day and we go into every coffee shop and we think about well you know you see packets saying this is my single origin coffee this is I pay extra for this and it's sustainably grown and yet you see news saying that you know the rain forest is being burnt down and animals are being killed and so about two years ago I looked at this and I thought wow you know how do I know this is really sustainable what I'm drinking the extra five books that I'm hanging at my coffee shop is it really is it really sink origin is it really going to the right people is it really killing the orangutans and the rainforest and then I see a statistic success well for every coffee a cup of coffee that we drink a square inch of rain forests get burnt down and I mean I drink at least five cups of coffee a day and working actually with MasterCard at the time I'm doing a and still do actually doing a lot of work with MasterCard in around identity and biometrics and I thought well you know how can we combine some of these capabilities we have with blockchain identity to say to put our money where our mouths is to change incentives as the base of the pyramid where you know performers produces smallholders if I can say to them that I really won't care but you don't burn a fat forest out that you produce in a good way and they just tried to survive they're not bad people if they're just hand-to-mouth but if they we can say right will hate you more as consumers and we know it's definitely going to that right person then maybe we can help to change some of you know and not have the rain force and don't have my guilty cup of coffee right so even if we don't drink quite as much coffee as you we are as a as a group consumers are more socially conscious than they ever have been what are some of the statistics here that people just care more about this stuff in general and they're willing to pay a premium for it so for example the green trade is estimated and this came out for Unilever at two trillion dollars a year by the by next year actually a growing statistic and let's just see I mean more and more on social media or literally you know every platform that you can see sustainability is a huge topic with you know sort of the the recent sort of UN climate discussions I mean it's this week with next week we're in Madrid this a big topic that we should all as a responsible consumers care about so Leander what do you see as the benefits of CSE to to small actors well it's a great point because when you see that just think about it do you usually say a lot about consumers in the big brands and now we're protecting the big brands but just think about the sourcing side of the supply chain right the small communities the ones that are growing the coffee the ones that are the farm the farmers over there or the fishermen now these ones are there's meaning for a while they're just been because it squeezed by the whole supply chain it's but the whole business right you think like let's remove a little bit of their margin let's put in something else now when they have the circular supply chain because consumers and this new generation is so interested in knowing where the product comes from you know if you're then doing the right thing now it has a change that you can pay them back it's all about come up with incentive model that's why we should in a MasterCard right when you create a network like that which the blockchain solution is a big network so how we can gain traction how we can gain adoption one thing is you need to establish incentives through all of the parties that you have at a network so if you're just taking care of the brand and they're gonna say bran mandate to your suppliers that needs to do that this is not going to work what it works is what is the incentive the farmers gonna have what's the sourcing so we don't mean it so don't don't you think the farmers wants to do the right thing of course they do but do they have incentives for that if it's just a letter if you're just someone mandating they're not gonna do it but if you come with the idea of hey I pay you back your your coffee or whatever your products you're doing we can help you can have a premium so we can it's going to be sustainable to your family as well your business can be more profitable so they you see okay I want to be part of it so it's creating incentives for people to for the for the for the producers themselves to grow things more sustainably it's all about that it's not only them and then you go to the suppliers you go to the logistic transportation companies how do you creative you give them the visibility they always complain about how can I have the visibility of my supply chain why can you create the visibility you give the transparency that you create the trust in and if you ask people in a supply chain business what the big problem is supply chain is trust they don't trust each other but they have to trade things and they don't trust each other you do business with people you don't trust every single day it's not a good thing so if we bring this visibility you facilitate this and they see there's an incentive to be also part of it so Christine what are the kind of technologies that are bad that are that are powering the CSC and and how are we how does it create that trust i cultivate that trust um and Leandra is for Honor's and in terms of trust it's about trusting the people but trusting the data and trusting the entities that I put in some of this data there are components of blockchain of course the surface the traceability aspects of the any of the product blockchain also helps with the decentralized identity capability that we've put in we've made also biometrics for the for the individual but this is optional depending on how you know in terms of using it very responsibly payments of course digital payments and you know having the ability to actually direct payments through the MasterCard rails and then of course with you know the power of AWS and then hosting on the cloud and be able to have that anywhere and the different aspects of including a iot so we know that let's say for fisheries this product is actually really came from displays you know the sensors we know that it's kept the right temperature we did that therefore you know insurance payers and things like that would be right and tracked all the way through and knowing that the product is really fresh and really kept you know intact throughout the journey so a whole bunch of different technology totally great projects with blockchain only would tend not to succeed and the reason is because you need to come up with you need to nurture the ecosystem so how you bring the IOT yes to the table how you doing you know payments how you bring AI so you get at all these solutions together and then you create what this visibility that's trust we need so companies are trying to do one side you know which is just a blockchain they're not going anywhere the reason that I like it our alliance with Accenture and AWS is because we know that we needed to do this end-to-end and this can be broader than just talk about watching and it's about the people because you have the ultimate is the consumer and the the base of pyramid producer both have identities and if we are able to say this is the identity of the person I can then help to influence their their livelihoods so it's putting a real face on the supply chain for the end consumer I mean at a time where consumers are demanding more transparency in the supply chain demanding to know more about the source of the goods that they put the products that they're buying what has been the reception and and what are you hearing back I think we've had great receptions we launched at Davos earlier this year we've had a huge amount of interest and now slowly we're gaining sort of traction in terms of getting the pilots I'm putting them in place and I think it's also something that we'll need to UM in initially it's a little bit of Education understanding well how does this actually all work you know is it just traceability is it just identity well it's actually all those things are understanding the use cases and embracing that there are it's not just one way of doing something and this is really a concept that embracing better business through better technology and innovation can actually be more sustainable and responsible businesses so the traction has been great and we've had a we have a number of pilots in the pipeline yeah well we will in the past I used to believe that some things we should stop doing or stop eating because of the sustainable part of it and I have learned that it's not the case you can do the right thing you can make sure that they're doing the right thing and you can eat with no guilt that's why everybody wants right so so this is this is the the type of you know visibility when to give from the consumer side but not from the from the company side of I like the brands are ok I'm safe because brands they have a very good visibility from the distributor on but they don't know what's going on behind that you know products the this is so globalized now they so fragmented you know it comes from so many different places Princeton that there's no way that they can control it if they don't have this you know there's this view so that's why we're trying to bring together so when so when this when this fully does launch and a consumer is then seeing the face of the coffee grower in Brazil or in Kenya and saying ok so then what what happens then how are they able to to to incentivize that farmer to do the right thing as you say there's a digital payment channel of powered by monster cop that you can then so sue speaks if the farmer donate money and actually say well there's multiple ways of doing things right so for example if I'm the consumer scanning the the product and there is we have a whole lego city built upstairs that can show cases and say right this is how it works and you know scan the product and what I can save right I want to be able to donate an extra dollar for this farmer because I really like the fact that you are sustainable and not burning the rainforests and protecting the orangutan or elephant so the the the birds so great I'm going to give you an extra dollar so this is how it's going to work on the app and there are other consequences well there's so many organic products nowadays they're not really organic so you can prove with the organic so the farmers would feel more motivated to really grow that as a organic product because there is a premium so it's not only the the tea that you give it to them but also the fact that you can create a premium price situation that will motivate others to do the same so brands would grieve the differentiator farmers would feel like okay if I do this way how to get will be more profitable and consumers will benefit from that from a real organic or a real product what the sustainability you know behind it consumers can trust more so how do what are some of the I mean this is such a cool concept what is what are some of the biggest challenges in in really launching and making it a reality what is keeping you up at night I think some of it is actually just education and getting it out there and understanding that this is it's a lot of stakeholders so from consumer brands all the way down to the the smallholder providers so it's a lot of people to link up and a lot of organizations to talk to so some of it is just getting through that process and getting people to understand and also actually hopefully we'll get consumers understand that this is something that they will want to do yeah and that this whole integration I Christine said it's in it's important right so you understand all the key stakeholders don't need to beat all of them at the beginning but at least the key stakeholders in the supply chain and how you can create this business incentive in a dissented model for them to be part of that so it's a mapping exercise which is we are getting there and in intestine we gain adoption and and if you gather the consumer side doing this as well so it creates a network effect and that's why we try to do in a MasterCard assist in our DNA like building networks right everybody knows that so we wanted to bring this to you know >> to the ecosystem to contribute okay so how can I create a network effect that they can it exponentially scale you know for for the whole market share for the whole you know marketplace so I want to ask you a personal question you've been in technology for a really long time time and now but in terms of the kinds of projects you've worked on and the kinds of ways you're thinking about technology and then this particular project at a time where climate change is a monumental challenge the fate of our planet really hangs in the balance with what with the decisions that we're making policymakers and consumers are making today wait how what is it like to work on this kind of products a great question I yeah I was for this all these years so go to work with this business mentality you know we're gonna make more money for someone else we're gonna work for a big company and see some friends and family doing things for the society and say oh my gosh there's something like that and now I feel like I can do both right we're talking you know it's a business it's it's a great solution but makes it so well for the you know for the whole society you know it makes me feel really every day going to work and say oh this is what I want to do you know this is so cool I mean I'm helping I'm benefiting myself as I go to the supermarket I'm gonna be the one who's gonna tip the farmer I'm gonna be the one who's gonna check where my shrimp comes from right so so I'm doing this for my family my kids are like I hope they can live in a better planet that know exactly where the products come from and the family that you have it's not even been born yet so that's the other generation that's amazing really doing things that we never know thank you so much Lee under and Christine for coming on the cube a really fun and fascinating conversation thank you thank you I'm Rebecca night stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage at the Accenture executive summit coming up after lunch [Music]

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> live in. Welcome to a special cube conversation here in Palo Alto. The Cube Studios. Jon, for your host. We're here with a special panel. Talk about the new brand of tech leaders in this era of cloud computing data. Aye, aye. And engineering excellence with us. We have Christine Heckart to CEO of Scaler J. P. Krishna of Marthe Moorthy. These s VP of engineering a Copa software and Patna saying, VP of engineering a glass door. Guys, welcome to come the Cube conversation. Welcome, engineer. And you guys are all running engineering organizations. You've been a former engineer now running a big company CEO, engineering led company. This is a big trend that's clearly defined. No one needs any validation. Cloud computing has certainly changed the game, eh? I certainly the hottest trend with respect, the data machine learning and the benefits. They're changing the cultures of companies changing how things were built, how people are hired. You're starting to see a complete shift towards old way and new ways. I want to get your thoughts about the engineering opportunities. What is engineering excellence today mean in this modern error? >> Well, for us it we talk a lot about mastery and setting up an environment where engineers have a chance to build their own mastery. But they can also have the necessary tools and technologies to be master of their domain. And these domains, especially if it's cloud base. They're very distributed. They're very, very fast moving. There's a lot of continual risk s so you have to set them up in the right way so they could be successful. >> What's your thoughts? I mean, you guys air cutting edge startup? >> Yes. For us, it's very important that the environment, the working moment for engineers, is organically inspiring. And what I mean by that is when every engineer no, why are there what are they doing? Well, how their work is impacting the company in the business initiators. At the same time, we are making sure that their interests are aligned with Albert projects and work in a way that we are also in a healthy, very extending and stretching their skills when their work has a purpose. And that's what our mission is, which is we want to make sure that everybody finds an opportunity where they feel there's a purpose that its purpose driven, that's when we feel like it. That's a great environment where they will be inspired to come every day and deliver their 110% >> J p excellence and engineering. I mean, this is what people strive for. >> So excellent points from both off them and I. I think I have a slightly different take on it as well. Today's business is we are asked to respond really, really fast, maybe hear the tongue a gel everywhere, John, right? So it's about how do we respond to the needs of the business as quickly as you can On dhe, it becomes the mantra for the organization. Having said that, there is another side to it. The dark side is technical debt. That's something we all have toe grapple with because you're moving fast, you're making decisions. You're hoping things all right, You want to prove your thesis out there, but at the same time, you don't wantto put yourself behind so that it might come and bite you later. So it's finding that balance is really, really important, and that becomes the focal point of the organization. How do you move fast, but at the same time Hold it. Oh, do you not slow yourself down in the >> future? That's a great point. I want to get probably your thoughts. That's because open source has been really a different game changer from the old way to the new way. Because you could work with people from different companies. You can work on projects that a better man for other people as well. So it's got a communal aspect to it. But also there is an element of speed the same time agile forces, this kind of concept. So technical debt. You want to move fast, we gotta recover. You kind of know how to get there. How is open source? Change that in Europe in >> well, number one thing that opens and allows all smaller company especially but more companies is that now you you can take on an open source project and start rather starting from ground zero. You can start somewhere where you know it's already helped, and you have a framework ready to start working on. So you're not every two single time we're building our thinking off a new idea you're not starting. Okay, Now let me school start from ground up, right? So you already are at a certain level, the second area where, like you said, you know, we're a Joe. Uh, we have open source, but we also have certain level of customization that the customers needed our application needs. And that's what inspires engineers as well, which is taking the challenger for K. We have a code based. Now let me build something more interesting, more innovative. And then what they also love is giving back to the community. It's we're not. The companies are not just tech community engineering team. We are have a bigger engineering community now, the whole tackle, and that's what makes a big difference for us working in Silicon Valley to even be part of that and contributing factor. >> J P Talk about technical debt when it comes back to the modern era because you can go back to It's been around for a while. Technical dead concerts, not new, but it's always been kind of the water cooler come with core lead engineer and the team. The Aussies have a term called feature creeping. You know, the old days. I don't get it. The feature creep. Actually, it kind of takes it away because of you. If you're applying technical debt properly, you're managing the velocity of the project. So the question is, how is technical debt evolved to the management levels of senior engineering managers? Because that seems to be a key variable in managing the speed and quality of the teams with managing the table. Done. Now, management is what some other conversations. >> So the game depends on the stage of the company Onda stage of the projects you are. If you're in a really mature suffer environment, very you're not making a lot of change. It's OK. It's not the primary conversation off the topic. But if you're trying to you capture a market or promote an idea, it becomes the fundamental thesis, forgetting things out there quickly Now, getting things out there quickly doesn't mean you get to let users suffer. You had to build it in the right way, needs toe work, but at the same time it needs to be just enough so that we can We can get the feedback from from the user's on. At the same time, you probably would have left out potentially features on. Maybe you didn't even make certain decisions on Let's say, hi availability or our scalability. Maybe you wanna prove it out in only one region of the world and so on. So you have to find those balances, and it becomes part of the planning conversations right in the front. And as you go into the further iterations of the product, it becomes part of the prioritization conversation of the product managers because it's not just about getting one part done and getting it out there. But as it reached the full level of maturity that you would want, >> I'm sure there's a lot of debates about an engineer organizations because, you know, engineers a very vocal you. Yeah, so you could fall in love with your product of your time to market, maybe taking some technical debt to get product market fit. And that's my baby, though, when you got a re platform or re scale it to make it scale, bringing with your point you mentioned. How do you guys manage? Because this becomes a talent management. People say, Oh, you gotta manage the ECOWAS. But if some people are managing the project in there. They're going to fire over their skis on technical debt. You gotta kind of rain that in. How do you guys manage the people side of the equation? That because it's an art and a science at the same time? What's your thoughts? >> Well, I'll say this, um, supporting al aspects of change, right? That's also is an injury leader. It's a core responsibility and call it a priority for us, not just the technical debt, but also the market shifts. Technology shifts. We have new tech coming in. We have involving in evolving every technology. So how do via dear to and make sure that it's very important that engineering is supporting and kind of coming up with these technologies a tte the same time? We are not just pulling down to their version of grades and all of them, so in a jest, it's it's a core aspect of leadership to make sure that you, as we are supporting these changes, were also making sure that these changes are not pulling us down. So that should be proper quality checks. There should be a proper conversation and roadmap items which is saying that it's not attack debt. It's more of a tech investment, and we are talking about so that we're in lock steps with our business partner and not behind, so that now we're saying Okay, we need a whole quarter to develop new things. So it's an aspect of filmmaking. Sure, team this motivated >> This comes back to culture. Next question. I want to get you guys thoughts on this building. A positive work culture given engineering led organization. Christine, you're leading that now to start up because your own real fast a lot. A lot of engineers. They're probably a lot of opinions on what that looks like. What is the cultural quick? Because this sets the DNA early on for startup. But as you're maturing organization, you gotta track the best talent. And some say, Well, we work on We saw hard problems. That's kind of cliche, but ultimately you do have to kind of have that problem solving aspect. You gotta have a culture what is a successful work culture for engineering. >> So every everybody talks about engineers wanna solve hard problems. I think that's true. But as Pablo said earlier, if you can help every engineer connect what they're doing, every day to the higher purpose. The organization to the problem that you're solving and how that makes the customers like better in our case, were accompanied by engineers for engineer. So our engineers get really excited about giving other engineers in the world a better day. We have taken it one step further recently by starting a peer network because one of my observations coming into this organization is there are so many peer networks in I t. Because it's been a 30 year industry. There are tons of pure organizations for CEOs. There are tons appear organizations for C. M. O's, but there really aren't for engineers. And if we want to help engineers really develop their career and their full skill set and therefore develop into their full potential, it's about more than just training them. It's about giving them context and full social skills and giving them places where they can learn not just from the other engineers in their company, but from engineers across the organization or across the industry at their same level, and maybe from very different industries and maybe in very different environments. So I think in our case, you know, really trying to bring these peer networks together has been one way that we can not only pay it forward for our own engineers, but also help a lot of other engineers around of the industry >> how you guys handling the engineering talent pertaining, attracting and keeping the best now. >> So I think that's where the whole company comes together, in my view. So as an injuring leader, it's not just that I said the tune of my engineering or as to what? That hiring his top priority. It's where the whole company comes together. You're recruiting team to build the stellar interview process. You are, you know, heads of other orcs to make sure that across the board you're helping define a mission for your company that resonates with your candidates who would want to work with you. So it's a collective effort of building a stellar environment for us glass door when one of the few values is transparency and we live and die by it, which means that when someone is higher, they need to see that be within the company. We are transparent, so we'd share a lot of data. A lot of information, good and bad with every single person in the company. It's never, um, hidden at the same time. We build and set up trust in them to say, Hey, it's confidential. Make sure that it doesn't leave the company and it's been 11 years and it hasn't It has never been the case. >> What class door you don't want have a glass door entry on black. Gotta be transparent. That's the culture. Culture matters minutes. Your culture is all about sharing and being open. >> You will see it. So that's what this is, what God goes down spike for as well, right? Building transparency within the company culture and more and more as we see many stories that we have seen for various companies. And sometimes I get a bad story, too, and I get an invitation. Oh, you're from class door, you know. But that helps overall Rios living and working for user's and professionals. >> Cross is big for you guys, >> absolutely professionals who are in this world looking for a job and life because you're spending a lot of time at work. So we want you to get up every day and be inspired and happy about where you're going to work and for that. That's why we have sharing a lot of the insights about the company's from reviews and ratings and CEO data to make sure that when you make your decision of the next move, you are you can be fully trust. You could be fully confident that the date of your sharing the new with that you're making a good decision. >> J. P. Your thoughts. You guys are on a tear. We've got a great coverage of your the annual conference in Vegas. Recent cube coverage. Your company on paper looks like you're targeting one segment, but you have a lot of range and you're technical platform with data. Um, how you guys articulating to engineering? How do you keep them? What if some of the stories you tell them to attract them to join you guys? >> So number one thing is about the talent that we already have in hopes. So people want to come to work at a place where they can learn, contribute on dhe, also for their Carrie Carrie Respert, both inside Cooper and as the lead on coming into Cooper. They look at it and they say, Oh, you have ah, wide variety of things going on here. You're solving a business problem. But at the same time, the technology stocks are different. You're on all the best clothes are there, so that's an easy attraction for them to come in. But also, it's not just about getting people, and how do you retain them on? We've been lucky. That had very low tuition for many years. Right now in the engineering organization, especially in the value, it is a big deal. Andi. I think part of the things that that is the collaboration and cooperation that they get from everybody on. You know, it's an age old saying diversity and thought, unity in action, right? So I really promote people thinking about radius ideas and alternatives. But there is a time for that debate. And once we agree on a solution, we all pulled in and try to make that successful. And then you repeat that often, and it becomes part of part of the culture and the way the organization operates as >> a follow up to culture. One thing that's become pretty clear is that's global engineering. You mention the valley very competitive, some start ups that they get on that rocket ship can get all the great talent. If you will public everyone. Everyone gets rich of one's happy, a good mission behind it, you know, win win outside. Some stars have to attract talent. You've got to start going on here. You might have a good colonel of great engineers, but you have development environments all over the world, so remote is a big thing. How do you manage the engineer remote? It's a time zone base. Does it put leaders in charge? Is there a philosophy in the Amazon? Has a two pizza team is their big thing. You get small groups. How did you guys view the engineering makeup? Because this becomes a part of the operational tension but operating model of engineering thoughts >> I can go first. I think there is a tension between keeping teams working on one problem on not distributing it across the world for efficiency reasons. But at the same time, how do you all owe for continuity, especially if you have a problem in one area? Can somebody else from another region step in in a different time zone continuing? That's always a problem, and then the other one is in a landscape like ours, in which is not uncommon for many, many companies. It is not that they built a lot of fragmented things. They all need to work together. So having a level of continuity within the radius remote centers is really critical on everybody has their own recipe for this one. But the ones that works for us and I've seen that played out many times, is if you can get a set off teams, toe, focus on certain problem areas and become experts in those >> cohesive within their >> within the physical, and then also have enough critical mass within a center that gives you the good balance between working on. One thing. Worse is knowing everything. So so that works for us, and I I think that's that's the way to get out >> of the operating system. It is a couple highly cohesive, >> and you need to have the right technical leaders on both sides and be willing to collaborate with each other >> partner thoughts >> I want to emphasize on the last statement you really need strong good, really, you know, trusted leaders in the location to Canada, then inculcated more bigger team everything Glassdoor groove from one location to four locations in last three years. And one thing that we learned after our first remote location that we started was that when we seeded our new remote location with few people from the original location that hoped start, you know, the similar aspects of what glassware stands for and over core at those and values. And then, as we added, new people, they just can easily just transfer to them so that hope does in a big way. And then he moved to Chicago with the same idea and, of course, Brazil. Now with the same >> knowledge transfer culture transfer, >> it all makes it easy. Even you have few people seating from the original location that was court for us. >> Pop in actually started their first remote office in San Francisco, which has now become their headquarters. So she has a lot of experience. Everyone of scale er's customers globally. You know, we sell the engineer, so we're dealing with with our customers who are dealing with this problem all the time. And in addition to culture, one thing that seems to bubble up regularly is can do you know when they need a common tool set and where they can do their own thing. How do you, you know, balance that and where do you need a single source of truth that people can agree on? And again, where can people have different points of view? >> You're talking sing associates from code base to what could >> be whatever, Like in our case, it's yeah, if you're going to troubleshoot something, you know, where the logs, the truth in the logs, Are you gonna have a single source for that? But for other people, it could be the data that they're bringing in or how they analyze the business. But if you can be proactive about understanding, when is commonality of tools of approach, of philosophy, of data, whatever, when it's commonality going to be what we drive and when are we going to allow people to do their own thing? And if you can put that framework in place than people know when they have the latitude and when they got a snap to grit and you could move a lot more quickly and there's kind of a technical debt that isn't code based? It's more about this kind of stuff, right? It's tool based its process and culture based. And if you can be more proactive about avoiding that debt, then you're gonna move more quickly. >> Videoconferencing. Very, very important. You should be able to jump on a video Constance very easily to be able to connect with someone driving just a phone calls all of these face time, different areas of face time Technology plays a big role >> technology. This is This is a modern management challenge for the new way to leave because it used to be just outsource. Here's the specs member, the old P. R. D S and M R D's. There's the specs, and you just kind of build it. Now it's much more collaborative to your point. There's really product and engineering going on, and it's gotta be. It's evolving. This is a key new ingredient >> because the expectation on the quality of product is so much more higher than competition is so much more. >> And when you know these engineers build in a lot of cases, they have to operate it now. So, like you say, whether it's a free service to a consumer, Aurens in enterprise, the expectation is perfect. No downtime, no hiccups >> and the reward incentives now become a big part of this now. New way of doing things. So I gotta ask the natural question. What's the reward system? Because Google really kind of pioneered the idea of a host 20% of your time work on your own project. That was about a decade or so ago. Now it's evolved beyond that to free lunches and all these other perks, but this has got to appeal to the human being behind it. What are some of the reward mechanisms? You guys see his management that's that's helpful in growing, nurturing and scaling up engineering organizations. >> Well, engineers are human, and as every human autonomy is critical for any aspects of moderation. And that's what please the core level. Then, of course, lunches, matter and other perks and benefits matter. Snacks of pours. Good coffee machine definitely is the core of it, but autonomy of what you want to do and is that the line. But what we want or what we are trying to deliver, and the aspect and the information of I did and rolled this out, what was the impact of it? That new should go back to that engineer who built that. So threading it through to the end and from the start is its very core for everybody to know because I want to know what I'm as I'm going every day. How is it helping >> and we really try. I personally try Thio. Make sure that each human on the team, regardless of their function, that we understand their potential and their career aspirations because a lot of times the the normal ladder, whatever that lander is, might not be right for every person. And people can pivot and use their skills in very, very different ways, and we need to invest in their ability to try new things. If it doesn't work out, let him come back. So you know, we try to spend time as a company for engineers not just in our company, but beyond. To really help them build out their own career, build out their own brands. Engineers more and more could be, you know, on TV shows and doing blog's and building out their own personal brand in their point of view. And that gives them impact. That goes beyond the one piece of code that they're writing for a company in a given day or a week. >> J. P you guys went public stock options. All these things going on as well. Your thoughts? Yeah, >> I just came back from a trip to my newest Dev center in Hyderabad, India. It's funny. I had sessions with every team over there. The number one topic was full >> s >> so excited about food. So there is something primal about food. Having said that, I think, uh, praise and recognition the age old things. They matter so much. That's what I've seen You acknowledge what somebody has done and kind of feedback to elect partner was saying, The impact that it creates, you know, it's it's a lot more fulfilling than monetary incentives. Not that they're not useful. Occasionally they are. But I think repeating that on doing it more often creates a sense off. Okay, here's what we can accomplish as a team. It is how I can contribute to it, and that creates a normal sense of purpose. >> Austin, you guys talked about tools of commonality is kind of key. It's always gonna be debates about which tools, much codes, languages to use, encoding, etcetera. But this brings up the notion of application development as you get continuous development. This is the operating model for modern engineering. What's the state of the art? What do you guys seeing as a best practice as managers to keep the machinery humming and moving along? And what what's on the horizon? What's next? >> Yeah, in my view, I would just say So what's humming and what state of the art I think I is core thio. Most of the systems and applications, the, uh, the core aspect of pretty much every company as you see, and that's the buzz word, even in Silicon Valley for the right reasons, is how we have built our platforms, insistence and ideas. But now let's make it smarter, and every company now has a lot of data. We are swimming in data, but it's very important that we can pick and pull the the core insides from that data to then power the same product and same system to make it more smarter, right? The whole goal for us ourselves is where they're making our platform or smarter, with the goal of making it more personalized and making sure that as users are navigating a project, pages they are seeing more personalized information so that they're not wasting their time there. We can make faster decisions in more rich data set, which is very catered towards them. So smart, so building that intelligence is core. >> And with continues, integration comes, continues risk. All right, so no risk, no reward. And so we live in an era of freemium. Free service is so you know why not take the risk? You don't have to do an A B test. You got digital. You do a B, C D and use all kinds of analytics. So this is actually a creative opportunity for engineering as they get to the front lines you mentioned earlier getting part of the empowerment. How is the risk taking changing the management? >> You know, I deal with class off users were willing to pay money, so I don't know if I can talk a lot about the freedom aspect of the problem. But now there's always desire for new functionality. If you want it, otherwise you don't want it. There's a lot of risk of worsens that's still floating around, especially in the interprets there today. On it is a big tension that you have to deal with. If you're not careful, then you can introduce problems on believing you're operating on the cloud and you're servicing thousands of customers. A small change can bring down the entire ecosystem, so you'll take it very seriously. You're helping others run their business, and that means you had invest in the right tools and processes. >> So you guys are actually Freemium business model, but still engineers. I got a test that they want to take the rhythms. So is it a cloud sand boxing? How is the risk taking managed? How you guys encouraging risk without having people hurt? You don't >> wantto overburden engineers to the point. They feel stifled and they cannot do anything. So there is a right balance. So you know, there are many techniques we follow the. For example, we roll out the software, tow US staging environment so customers can play around and make sure things are not breaking for their comfort more so than for us. But it is an important part of the equation, and then internally, you have to invest a lot of planning. Appropriately, there are the high risk content on the features, and then there are the low risk ones. You want to think about experimentation frameworks in no way be testing and so on and more importantly, about automation and testing. I don't think if a customer logs a bug and finds the problem, they don't want to see it one more time. Ever really have to make sure that those things don't happen when you're investing robust automation around testing processes because there isn't enough time for the complexity of these applications for destiny thing, man, >> this whale automation with cloud comes in containers kubernetes. All of >> those things, you know you heard will enable engineers with the technology said so that they contested scale. You have to provide access to production like data because you have to worry about no privacy, security and all those aspects. But at the same time, they need to have access to the variety off configurations that are out there so that they contested meaningful so to invest in all of those things. >> But I'll take it back to kind of where we started. This, which is the human factor with continuous delivery, is this continuous risk, and it doesn't matter if this engineer is supporting a free consumer application or the highest end of enterprise. When something goes wrong, this, their stress level goes through the roof and you know, how can we equipped? These people, too, solve problems in real time to have that visibility, to have whatever tool said or date or whatever they need? Because at the end of the day, a bad day for an engineer is a day when something is breaking and they're the ones that have to stay up all night and fix it and a good day for an engineer. A human being is the day they get to go home and have dinner with the family or not be woken up in the night. And there is >> for kite surfing or whatever, you >> know, whatever they dio, there's, you know, there is truly a human way. We think about engineers and engineers get up every day, and they want to change the world and they want to make an impact. And thank God we have, you know, teams of engineers that do that for all of us, and they're human beings, and there's a level of continuous stress that we've injected into their lives every day and to the extent that we, as companies and managers and leaders, can help take some of that burden off of them. The world becomes >> the whole being seeing the results of their work to is rewarding as well. >> Scaler does a lot of stuff there, so I have to call that are at the same time in a lot of very good nuggets, J P. Brother. But one more thing that has shifted in terms of how process of practice works is more of more. Engineers now participate very early on in product development is in the day. They try to understand what is the context and why are we doing. And we do a lot of users research to understand that that process, so that they have full context, that they are building in developing eso they're more of a partner now and not an afterthought. >> Think agile And Dev ops to me has proven that the notion of silos and waterfall practices has democratizing flatten. The organization's out where interdisciplinary crossovers are happening. >> Oh, yes, >> and this has been an interesting art of management is encouraging the right person that crust over the right line was you give people little taste, but sometimes they may not belong there kind of called herding cats in the old days. But now it's more of managing kind of interests and growth there. >> That original Dev ops model, though if you have anybody read the Phoenix project like years ago, but it it was really about bringing different points of view. It's a diversity thing. It's bringing different points of view around the table before the first line. It is written so that you're thinking about every angle on the problem and on the ongoing operation of whatever you're building >> Well, it's all about diversity and inclusion and diversity. I was with states, inclusion and diversity, diversity, inclusion Because male and females are involved. We have two females in tech here. This has been a discussion. We still don't have the numbers up to the senior levels within engineering in general. What has to happen to move the needle for women in tech and or inclusionary people involved in engineering to get the right perspective? What's what's >> not? Start with J P because he's actually a huge champion, and without the men involved, we don't have a solutions, >> inclusion and diversity, J. P your thoughts on this was super important. >> Yeah, Number one is recognition. I was stealing Christine yesterday. I just came back from India. That's like told you I took a picture there of my management team. Came back here, looked at it. There is no female, No right, it's crazy. I mean, it's not that we're not trying on gum it. We had the same problem and we started our center in 2015 right? There was a group picture off the team. There was like they were like two women on the thing. We put a lot of effort into it on. Two years later, a significant chunk of the organization has got women embedded in the team's came because we tried. We went out. Look, for those who are good in this area is not that we compromised on the qualifications. It's really about putting some energy in tow, getting the right resumes and then looking at it. The other thing. We're also doing his cultivation. You have to go to the grassroots because there are just enough women engineers. It's unfortunate, for whatever reasons, they're not taking up that professional military enough studies written on it So last two years we weigh, have conducted something called rails. Girls in India, 150 school age children, Women. I mean, girls come in and then we have supported them, run their classes, hold a class. And that helps, you know, even if 10% off them, you know, choose to take up this profession. It's gonna be a big boost. And we have to do a lot more of those in my opinion. >> Europe T rex President Leading Engineering. What's your view? >> Well, I'll say this, you know, for the people who are participating in helping drive this mission just like J. P. I say thank you, especially for men who are participating in it. We cannot do this without you, but for all the people who, if they're not participate in participating in helping drive this mission, I have all share this one data, uh, one of the initiative that glass or drives this gender pay gap, which is also an outcome off, not having diverse outlook at all levels into in the workplace. And we in our economic research team. They did a study and they shared a projection off when will be closed. The gender pay gap. It's 2017. That's depressing. So for for me, when I hear people who say you know, they, they don't want to participate or they don't think this is the right approach of solving for diversity in workplace, I say Okay, but that's not the reason for you to not participate and stay out. If it join it, join it in your own way. But it's only when l offers. Can I see it as a real problem and participate just like Gibby, as you said grassroot level as well as outside One of the example that I told my team when they say, You know, we don't want to drop the bar, the quality bar, I say Sure, don't drive it, but don't drop it. But if you have two candidates, one with a diverse background, Um, who who might be after cable to the same job in 2 to 3 months over someone who slam dunk today, let's invest in the person who is bringing the diverse background for 2 to 3 months and then make them successful. That's not dropping the bar that's still supporting and investing in helping diversity. >> My good friend and heat you saw at IBM. They put out a survey said Diversity, inclusion, diversity. First companies have a bit of advantage, so the investment is so much lower in the bars, more bringing perspective because if we tell about software here has male and female and that's being 17% female, it's >> not just, you know, I had two things to the comments, all of which I agree with one. It's not just a pipeline problem. It is a a culture problem where people have to feel welcome and it has to be a comfortable environment, and they have to believe that their diverse point of view matters and doesn't matter if they're men or women. But there are lots of times when we all make it hard for somebody with a different point of view to enter the conversation. So we have to do a better job of creating the culture, and secondly, there's a saying you have to see it to be it. We have to see people of diversity, gender and of every other type, cognitive diversity of all types at every level in the company. And, you know, we had the same thing, so I'm lucky enough to send a Fortune 500 public board. And I spend a lot of my time helping women and people of color and diversity get on public boards. But if you go back seven years ago, we were 14% women on public boards and it did not move and it did not move and it did not move and in one year popped over 20%. And that's before the loss. So you know, you make these linear projections we can with effort, yes, actually make >> a >> difference. It just takes a very concerted effort. And in this case, particularly for engineering and for leadership, it is making a concerted effort at every level, from board to CEO to executive team to all levels down. Making sure we have inclusion and diversity in >> this is a modern management challenge in the new way of leading managing >> this process. These things, This >> is the big challenge, folks, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate. Final question for you guys is what if you could summarize the new way to lead and his modern error from an engineering standpoint, building out of companies building along durable value creation with its company a product or service. What is the key keys to success >> as a leader >> as a leader has a new brand of leaders. >> I would say, You know, this lot goes into, I'm sure you need to know engineering and all the strategic aspect of your job. But the core aspect I feel, is as a leader, my success depends on the quality of relationships I'm building with my team and members that I work with. So that goes into the people aspect, the people connection that goes into it, >> J p. >> Absolutely People are are a big portion of the story. I also feel understanding the problem and driving for results. You know, it's not just about building something. It's about building for a purpose. What is it that you're you're tryingto accomplish and continuing to find that? And working with the teams is so critical for success, especially in a fast moving in Christine. >> Yeah, I agree. It is all about the people, and I think old and new. This hasn't changed. People need to feel like they belong and they're being appreciated, and they're being heard >> scaler. Glass door Copa software. You guys do a great work. Thanks for sharing the engineering inputs, Thio. Leading successful companies. >> Thank you for >> your leadership. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm shot for the Q. Thanks for watching. >> Well.

(music) >> Everyone, welcome to a special CUBE Conversation. We're here in Palo Alto, theCUBE Studios, I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE video, we're here with a very special guest and the new CEO of a hot startup, Christine Heckart, CEO Scalyr. Welcome to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on. So, you're the new CEO of Scalyr, the CEO transitioned. >> Super great founder, great engineering team. >> Yes, yes. >> Hot startup, lot of finance and a lot of customers. Tell us about Scalyr. >> So, Scalyr was founded by a guy named Steve Newman. He is a serial entrepreneur. Scalyr is his 7th company. His 6th company was called Writely and it got bought by Google and is what we all know and love as Google Docs today. So, when he was inside Google, building out Google Docs he had the same problem that a lot of engineers do right now especially if they're on a modern stack. It's really hard to troubleshoot. It's hard to figure out what's running well and if there's a problem where it's at and fix it quickly. And so he left in 2011 and he founded Scalyr. >> And so, the company has how many employees? Just give us the quick numbers of employees, funding, venture involved, customers... Give us the quick numbers. >> The company has a little over 50 employees. It just took a Series A round about a year, a little under a year-and-a-half ago. Led by Shasta Ventures. There are 300 paying customers. We grew the core customer base last year by 170% revenue. So, it's growing very quickly. We more than doubled the employees in the last year. So, like you say, it's on fire and we're trying to scale up ourselves as we help our customers scale. >> So growth is obviously rocket ship growth is an attractive, enticing opportunity for you. You've been there, done that. So, what else attracted you to the opportunity? What made you make the move to take the leadership helm as the chief of Scalyr? >> The thing that attracted me most to Scalyr is that the world runs on code right now. And for companies for whom the code is the company downtime is money, it's critical. But, in these modern stacks, it's really hard to figure out where the problem is. Everything's been so abstracted. And if you're cloud-based, if you're moving to serverless, if you're on Kubernetes or some kind of container platform trying to do orchestration... Any of that makes it faster and easier to build a service but a lot harder to figure out if and where there's a problem within the service. And Scalyr's designed by engineers for engineers on modern stacks to help them figure out where that problem is and get it solved very quickly. >> So obviously the new wave is the cloud. Cloud natives search for big opportunities converging. What's the market opportunity? What are you guys going after in terms of, if you look at the marketplace, what's the segment you're going after? Lay that out, what segment are you in? Is it just cloud, is it a piece of cloud native, what's the market opportunity? >> We serve customers who have applications built on a new stack a cloud-based stack. And typically the people who use us most and who love us most are the site-reliability engineers, responsible for keeping it up and running. Dev Ops, true developers... One of our largest customers is a company called Zalando. They're an older company that did a digital transition, and so they do online e-commerce now, one of the largest in Europe. And for their engineers, 25% of their engineers use the product daily. 50% use it weekly. So, it's part of the workflow. It helps them do their jobs better. So, it's a utility. And the founder, you said, worked at Google, obviously he saw the scale there. They have a site reliability engineer concept that's obviously run a huge infrastructure. Is that kind-of the market you're going after? Dev Ops, SRE types? >> Yep, so we're an observability tool. There's kind-of two camps of observability. We've started in the logging space. So, what we're really known for is the fast logging tool. And the reason why we're known for being fast is unlike all the other architectures that were optimized for the more traditional stack, we've been written and optimized for the new stack and we're the only architecture that doesn't use keyword index in order to do that search. And that's what makes us fast. But it's also what makes us more affordable. And it contributes to, the architecture contributes to the simplicity of how you can use the tool and how the tool is written. >> So, the core tech is, under the hood would be, what, what's the core tech in that. Because speed obviously means you've got some technology there. What's the core technology that makes that speed work? >> So, we're a true multi-tenancy product, we run on Amazon ourself, it's a multi-tenancy system, it uses massive parallel processing. And basically we can ingest any data, in fact we're designed for machine data, for logs, for things that don't, they're not full documents, it's not like a video or something on the World Wide Web. These are little tiny events that come in and there's lots and lots and lots of them. Scalyr is the name of the company, we scale up and we scale out. And what we do is, when you go to run a query we throw every processor in our system at every query that comes in. And the reason why that becomes important in this multi-tenancy architecture is the more customers we have, the more data that we ingest, the more servers we have to throw at every query for every customer. So as we grow, the service gets better, it gets faster, it gets more affordable for all customers. >> That's the best thing about the cloud, you can bring that compute to bear so you have a little flywheel of acceleration. Talk about the role of data, because this is interesting, one of the core problems we hear a lot in the cloud native world is that so many, now, sets of services being deployed Kubernetes is becoming the de-facto sceme for orchestration around micro-services, containers obviously they're our standard as well. Which means there's more instrumentation, right? So, I could almost see how the founder saw this future because he lived it. >> Exactly. >> He lived the future, and now the real world's going "hey, we have that Google-like problem, we have tons of services playing around but it's not just logging and getting a query back in minutes. These services are talking to applications through each other. This is like mission critical. >> Very mission critical. >> Is this what you guys are doing? >> Right, if you are running in a traditional environment and you're running sort-of traditional applications there are really good logging solutions out there for that. That's what Splunk was founded on, they're amazing at doing that. But, nobody had built an optimized logging system and an observability system for the new stack. And that's what we're designed to do. And you use, you said, in minutes. And minutes is what it takes for most log queries in a traditional environment. 96% of all of our queries happen in less than a second. We're fast. >> So, this is really what the Agile teams need, Dev Ops teams need. >> Yes. When code is money, when it's the company, when every second of downtime, or even a service that's impaired, it might not be hard down but it's not running the way that it should, that impacts the customer experience, it impacts how many customers you can get if you're a real-time business, it impacts revenue. It's important to get that service up and running quickly. >> So, you guys are re-imagining logging, which is more mission critical rather than okay, where the breach is, what's going on in the basic logs, like Splunk used to do. So, talk about the product. Who's the target persona, how is it consumed, you mentioned on the cloud, is it SAS? How does someone get involved, do they just download it, do they get a consult, talk about the product and the target audiences. >> So, it is SAS, it's delivered by SAS. We don't have a non-prime service today or an offering. And, typically it's the site-reliability engineer, the architects, the developers themselves, Dev Ops for sure, Cloud Ops, they're the ones that are using the tool day-to-day. And it's a beautiful dashboard, a lot of it is just point and click. You can go in, if you want to add English-language query, you don't have to learn a special query language to use this, that's why people say it's so fast and easy to learn to use and I think that's why we get the kind of daily usage we have. You don't have to be an expert in the tool, it's very intuitive, you get a dashboard, you can just keep clicking down off of a chart and get all the way to the code. In fact, we can link you from where the problem is straight into the code that underlies that so you can then go and solve the problem. >> So, it's really easy to get into. >> Very. >> So I don't need do any kind of elaborate configurations? >> No. You don't need to do elaborate configurations and, as importantly, you don't need to learn a new specialized query language. Which, again, in the more traditional systems you find that there's only a few people that really know how to use the product because you have to learn the query language. It's kind-of like CLI or something in networking. And so there's a few specialists and they're very good, but if you're an engineer and there's a problem and you want to use the tool, you don't have time to become an expert. You've got to just use it. And so, even though it's designed to search machine language, you can use English, it's pretty easy to figure out how to write that query, and it comes back so quickly, if you didn't get it quite right you can just refine and do the search again and narrow down. >> I can see why the V.C.'s like this, the venture capitalists, because it markets good, big wave, cloud native lot of growth there. Certainly hyper-scalers, enterprisers are coming next, so I can imagine that's more head room. Product is consumable, SAS, in the cloud, technology that's fast, compelling, >> You're good, you can be on the pitch team. >> Final check box is customers. >> Yes. >> So, how many customers do you have? >> We have 300 paying customers. That doubled in the last year, and we have some big names and a lot of small companies. So, some of the fun ones are Giphy, my kids love that, my husband, right? Using them every day. NBC Universal, kind-of on the other side of that. Companies for whom the application is the business. And it can be a traditional company that's trying to launch new digital transformation initiatives, or it can be companies that were born in the cloud. >> And that's only going to get better, again, the markup. There's more companies going to the cloud. Talk about multi-cloud, because you know we had conversations in the past before you came on Scalyr around multi-cloud. That's only going to increase the sets of microservices and the role of data. Not just code, because code is data. Data is code. It's going to be a whole data ops movement coming soon, we see that tsunami coming. How does the multi-cloud fit into all of this in your mind? Is it too early, is that coming later? Or, is it available now? Could your customers have the multi-cloud now? >> For our customers, if they are in a multi-cloud environment today, we're an ideal tool for them 'cause we can run on any of their clouds. Most customers are not yet in multi-cloud, but they're trying to get there. Just like most customers are not yet fully containerized, but you want to pick a tool today that will grow with you and get you to tomorrow. And that's where Scalyr comes in, because we are designed and optimized for that environment. And, there's kind-of no scale too big for us. The company was named very deliberately. We can scale up, we can scale out, and we can continue to be simple and fast as your business scales. >> Christine, you've had a track record, you've had a great career, you've seen a lot of waves of innovation. You've been working for big companies, a dozen start-ups, now you're back at a start-up. So, I got to ask you a personal question, how does it feel? What's it like back into the trenches? And, you've got a hot start-up here. One month on the job, what's going on there? >> I love it. I really love it. You know, there's 50 people in the company every one of them is high-energy they're so committed to the cause. You know, when the world runs on code and you help that code run better, you're making an impact on the world every single day. These people know it, they feel it. They're very committed. And, unlike some of the much bigger companies I've been at, you can innovate so quickly. So, I just finished my first 30 days onboarding, I have talked to our big customers, a couple dozen of our really big customers. And, they all say a couple of things over and over again, there's just some consistent themes. Fast always comes up, it's usually the first word. Simple comes up. Affordable, which is nice. People pay a lot of money for these tools and they don't always feel good about all that money. We can come in and be much more affordable and they appreciate that. But, the thing that kept coming up over and over again was the customer service and the customer support. And nobody, I come from worlds where nobody ever raves about customer service and customer support. So, it was odd and I dug a little bit, and there were two pieces to that. One, because we're 50 people, when somebody has a problem, we're all-in. It gets solved quickly. A lot of times we can sort-of flag that problem for the customer because we're keeping track. But the other thing that was brought up is when they need something that maybe we don't deliver today they ask for it. And a lot of times we can give it to them pretty quickly. There's not some big, huge long roadmap process. We're a small company, we can't always do it quickly, but a lot of times we can turn stuff around and it's great. >> Well, you're hitting the ground running, got your running shoes on, sounds like a great opportunity. You've got a lot of work to do! What are some of the priorities? I'm sure hiring is big. Take a minute to give the plug on for any hirings you have. >> So, we're just moving to brand new facilities in downtown San Mateo a couple blocks from Caltrain. And that is because we doubled the company size last year, and we need to double it again this year. So, we are hiring, if you know of any great people, please send them to us. We announced some new things at Amazon Reinvent, late last year, one of which is new distributed tracing. We're on the very leading edge of this trend, and it's an important one. It's probably a conversation maybe with Steve himself. Yeah, he's very knowledgeable, and it's a fascinating area because the APM systems, again, kind-of the traditional if you can say that for APM, have all been built for the front-end, for the websites. But, once you move into these container environments you need that same kind of capability for the back end. And so you need something called distributed tracing. It turns out that if you're born in the logs like we are doing that distributed tracing which links them together and gives you a picture systemically of what's happening and how you link the events for a fuller picture. We're kind-of uniquely good at that. So, we've got that coming out later this quarter. >> That'll attract some engineers 'cause that's a hard problem. >> It's a hard, a lot of the problems we solve are hard, interesting problems, and they're problems for the new stack, and they're problems at scale. And smart engineers like to work on that. >> You know, state's a big one, stateless applications, state is a huge problem I'm sure you guys are on, this is where the tracing plays in. >> Yes, exactly. >> Final question for you before we end is competition. Certainly people who are in the new world, going cloud native, they get it, they get the complexity, they get the opportunity as well. So, there's a lot of investment there. But, the folks that are looking at Scalyr like "ooh, what's the competitive lens"? How do you answer that? What's your response to differentiate, being different from the competition? So, there's lots and lots of observability tools, and even logging tools in the market. And from that standpoint you could say there's tons of competition. They're all built on keyword indexing, so they're all optimized for looking back, for yesterday's world. We're the only ones that are built on this very new architecture, designed for the future stack, designed for the new stack. And, we're the only ones that don't use keyword indexing. And, what we have is this amazing, multi-tenancy, columnar-based approach that gives you these advantages of fast, simple, and affordable. >> So you're staking the ground in the marketplace of speed, sub-second response, 2 queries, 4 runtime applications that are mission critical to businesses. Is that right? >> Said very well, thank you. >> Well, that's what we do here at theCUBE, we figure it out, we get the data. >> Christine, thanks for coming out. Congratulations on the new role. We'll be following you guys. Love the name, Scalyr. Scaling is table stakes now in the cloud. If you don't compete at scale, or operate at scale, or develop at scale, you're probably going to be in trouble. So, theCUBE's covering it as always. Thanks for watching, I'm John Furrier.

(upbeat music) >> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's the CUBE. Covering Cisco Live 2018, brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and the CUBE's ecosystem partnership. >> Hello there, and welcome back to the CUBE's exclusive live coverage of Cisco Live 2018. I'm John Furrier with cohost Stu Miniman. This is the third day of three days of live interviews. Go to thecube.net, siliconangle.com for all the great stories. Of course it'll be on YouTube after as well. Our next guest is Christine Heckart, head of global marketing for all Cisco's business units in a really great role, focusing on the outcomes. Christine, great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> You're wearing the DevNet hat that says DevNet Social Club which is very interesting, because they had a huge party last night celebrating with 500,000 developers. Quite a social party. >> Right. >> And they had the hats, looking good. >> Unbelievable, unbelievable milestone. Really changes the nature of the industry, you know. The network is becoming an open platform for business innovation. It's time. It's high-impact. We're very excited. >> It's a new Cisco you're seeing. You have a new role. You're trying to get a holistic view across all the business units which have marketing, but the interesting thing about the DevNet success is in only four years, the success on the numbers is really kind of amazing to see that kind of growth of, you know, real, active developers. This points to the digital transformation. Cloud native companies like Airbnb, these are proven case studies. Now the enterprise is moving there. What's your view of that? How do you look at the digital transformation? >> Everybody's talking digital transformation. You know, it's like, I've been in the industry 30 years. To me, the digital transformation happened in the '90's when we truly went from analog to digital. This is wave two, maybe three, and it's not so much that we are digitally transforming. It's more that we are now learning to harness networks in new ways. And I don't just mean like technology networks, but networks of customers and partners and developers and allowing them to co-create value for each other. And when that happens, you know, more usage creates more value, creates more usage. You get this virtuous cycle, this network effect that's happening. That's the big network. And of course, if you're going to do that as a business, you need a different kind of architecture, small n. You need a new business architecture to build that new business model on. And that to me is the really big transformation that's happening. It's what makes it fun to be in this industry again. Very exciting. >> Yeah, Christine, I love that. I say most of my career is like I talk about networks of networks because I'm a networking guy by back ground, but, you know, at the CUBE, we're about community. Talking about that network effect, we've had on some of the research from MIT talk about this second machine age and how you're gonna be able to leverage some of these things, so just speak a little more of some of the cultural changes we see, and, you know, how the different networking and networking play together. >> Yes, I love the network of networks, 'cause that's another way to say network effect. There's a guy in MIT, in the MIT media lab, named David Rose. He wrote this book called Enchanted Objects, and I just love that concept of, you know, living in an enchanted world. That sounds amazing. But he talks about kind of a ladder of enchantment or a ladder of connected value, and the way I internalize it is when you connect an object, you change its nature. But we're not just connecting things back to a central data center anymore. David Goeckeler kinda talked about this. Chuck in his keynote referenced it. The whole world has changed. It's now about connecting things to each other, and it's creating the context and the socializing of things, the network of networks. And then how do you let those things and let people interacting with those things co-create value for each other? And DevNet comes in there, opening up the API's, opening up the data, allowing people to create new applications that have never been thought of before. But this, to me, is the big opportunity that we all have together, and we're. This is the age of networks. Joshua Cooper Ramo wrote that book Seventh Sense, which I think should be the bible of everybody in this industry, and it says we are truly in the golden age of networks and probably just at the beginning of it. There's a lot of change to happen. >> We love network effect, so we totally love where you're going with this because our business has got a network effect dynamic in how we do our media, but I think, more importantly, you're talking about value creation with networks. This is a fundamental, new trend that's now taking the connected world to another level. So we're all connected. >> Right. >> Audiences are out there. People are out there. So people who are building the networks are the ones that are creating the value. >> Right. >> The question that we're looking at and trying to understand is where is the value capture? We see open source as a great example of co-creation. How do you view that in your mind? Is network effect capture, is it collaboration? What's your thoughts and what's your reaction to the notion of if we're connected, how do we come together and how do we capture it? >> So, the way I've been thinking about it recently. I don't know if this is the right way, but companies are at different stages of this. You've got companies that are very traditional. You've got companies like Cisco and Microsoft that are transitional, and then you've got companies that have transformed. And for any of those companies, you can create. You can harness that value of network effect. You can do it at the infrastructure level. So we talked about that a lot in the keynotes, like with security, where one person gets sick, everybody gets inoculated because of what we did with Talos, and that's a network effect, but it's captured inside your infrastructure. When you're using AINML or you're automating things, that's a network effect inside your business infrastructure. You can do it at the product and service level. Just a single product. You can do it at the internal people level. How do I get my people collaborating in new ways and creating better value, co-creation of value, network effects among the people? You can transform the company, and your business model can be based on that. Or you can transform the whole industry. You know, if you look at what all the normal examples, Airbnb and Uber, they didn't digitize. They created network effects by having a network of drivers and riders or a network of people who own houses and people who want to rent houses. It's the capital N, right, that's at the business level, and ultimately it's transforming whole industries. >> I got to get your thoughts 'cause this is right in line with Chuck Robbins's keynote around an open new, modern era. >> Right. >> He put the classic network architecture slide up. Hey, firewall, old way. Let's go look at the new way. This is really kind of a thought leadership point that's super important because as we engage with intent networking changes, the outcomes are driving a lot of the architectures. It used to be the other way around. >> Right, exactly. >> Here's what you've got and here's what you can do with it. Now it's what do you want to do? >> Right. >> How does that affecting change? Obviously DevNet is a great example. That's a freight train. It's gonna go another inflection point, we believe, but this new mindset is changing how people are organizing, and the future of work is involved. Your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, you know, it's so many layers, but ultimately it's about harnessing the wonder and taming the chaos of this hyper-connected world, and I don't think you can build a new business on an old architecture. If your business infrastructure was built 30, 20, even 10 years ago, it's just not built for the modern age. And it's about mindset shifts and architectural shifts, but going from hardware to software because you need that realtime agility. Going from closed to open. Going from CLI to API, right? The DevNet orientation. There are these big shifts that we have to make in the way we fundamentally think about architecture, and then there are shifts we have to make in the way we architect networks, in the way we build applications, and all of that is what we have to do together as an industry. >> So Christine, you know, we've been in the networking world for awhile. One of the challenges we saw for businesses many times is the network was slow to change, and, you know, enterprises would be like, oh no, I can't do that because, you know, it's a bottleneck for innovation. So we've been excited to see Cisco moving up the stack. The DevNet momentum here, explain how we can flip that bit and make sure that, you know, networking is now a driver for innovation rather than an anchor? >> Right, it should be the driver. We say the network is now open for business. The network needs to be the platform for business innovation so I could answer in a technical level, but where I'm gonna go is higher level. You think about Cisco's logo as a bridge, and what bridges do in the physical world, is bridges collapse space and time. Right? If I live in the bay area, to get from San Francisco to Pleasanton, you used to have to go all the way around the bay. And you built a bridge, and you gain time. You collapse space, and you accelerate things. And that's what technical bridges do, too. It doesn't matter if we're collaborating with people around the world, we're collapsing space. It doesn't matter if we're trying to accelerate the pace at which we bring something to market, we're accelerating time, time to market. Technology bridges collapse space and time, and you get that acceleration effect, that small world effect, as a result. Now ultimately, that's what these technologies have to do. We do it through automation. We've gotta simplify things. We've gotta make it possible to program a network in the language of business, which is what intent-based networking is about. And you take an API, and you say what you want to do, and it automatically calls up those resources from the network and makes it happen. >> Talk about Cisco's role in that vision. By the way, it's a beautiful vision. We see it the same way, but the language of business is changing. You mentioned outcomes. These are new things. You mentioned API's, intent-based. What are some of the things Cisco's playing in the role of that future innovation? What's the role for Cisco? >> Well, Cisco has to play a couple of roles. Well, two of them at the same time. One, we're transforming our own business, and while we do that, we have to help all of our customers transform their businesses. And to me, we play two really important roles. One is as technology leaders and visionaries and evangelists. That's what this whole show is about. Like, the smartest people in the world are doing this stuff. How do you bring them all together, and how do you collectively move forward, collectively make each other smarter? We've got a network effect just here, right? Because we all make each other smarter. We learn from each other, and we learn how to take things forward. So Cisco with its R&D engine, and, you know, everything we do to automate and automate business and kind of create that hidden magic that makes the modern world possible, we gotta be doing that. But at the same time, companies and cities and governments look to Cisco as somebody to help show the way at the business level, at the human level, at the impact on the world, and, you know, that's where all of our social responsibility stuff comes in. We talk about everything from connected rhinos that help to preserve the ecosystem in Africa and make sure that there's not as much poaching going on with the rhinos, all the way to how we change education or change health care, and we have to play a role in all of that. >> It's interesting you bring that up, because, you know, the statistics we look at, certainly it's been well-documented that millennials want to work for a mission-driven organization, but you're bringing up something where a mission-driven organization actually impacts network effect. >> Yes. >> So it's more than ever now having a mission. Not only do you attract people who want to work for a mission-driven company, there's actually a benefit and impact through that. Can you expand on that? Because I think you're really off to something with network effect. I think network effect is a new dynamic that isn't just a paper exercise to think about, and looking at it as a formula or gamification kind of growth hack. It's actually a real business dynamic. Talk about that. >> It is. Well first of all, network effects are timeless, and frankly, they don't even need people. Bees and flowers create a network effect. It just means more usage creates more value for all users. It's been cities, language. Network effects tend towards kind of natural monopolies. You tend to get oligopolies, smaller numbers with big impact, and, you know, it does go to mission, because what I see happening is every industry right now is being transformed. Just like we saw back in the 90's, the Internet kind of went through every industry, and it changed it drastically and ultimately changed the whole world. And we see that happening now, but where we see it is at the whole ecosystem level because you're seeing network effects happening in entire industries. And our mission is to help every company in the world find its relevance, and really every person in the world, certainly every person in our industry, find their relevance. People are searching for how to become relevant in this very hyper-connected, changing time, and Cisco can help people in this industry find their relevance. We can help each company and each industry find their way and find their relevance, and when you do that, goodness is created. And when you fail to do that, a lot of people, jobs get impacted, companies get impacted, communities get impacted. And we want to see the positive impact, not the negative. >> It's so interesting. Cisco's core competency. I'm just seeing some of the signs around here, 25 years of CCIE. It's a networking company, but you're bringing network effects at a whole nother level. It's a business architecture. >> It's a capital N, not just a small n. >> You're bridging the network effects of technical with business network effects, and that's where the secret sauce is. >> That's where the magic happens. >> Christine, great to have you on. Great to see you. >> Thank you for having me. >> See you supporting DevNet with the hat there. Thanks for coming on the CUBE. Good to see you. Great stuff here. Network effect is a business dynamic influenced by actual technical network. Cisco's at the center of it. So CUBE with our network effect is bringing the data to you in realtime. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Be back with more after this short break. Stay with us. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's theCUBE, covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. This is theCUBE, live here in Mountain View, California, heart of Silicon Valley for Cisco's DevNet Create. This is their Cloud developer event. It's not the main Cisco DevNet which is more of the Cisco developer, this is much more Cloud Native DevOps. I'm joined with my cohost, Lauren Cooney and our next guest is Christine Yen, who is co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Honeycomb.io. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Great to have an entrepreneur and also Chief Product Officer because you blend in the entrepreneurial zeal, but also you got to build the product in the Cloud Native world. You guys done a few ventures before. First, take a minute and talk about what you guys do, what the company is built on, what's the mission? What's your vision? >> Absolutely, Honeycomb was built, we are an observability platform to help people find the unknown unknowns. Our whole thesis is that the world is getting more complicated. We have microservices and containers, and instead of having five application servers that we treated like pets in the past, we now have 500 containers running that are more like cattle and where any one of them might die at any given time. And we need our tools to be able to support us to figure out how and why. And when something happens, what happened and why, and how do we resolve it? We look around at the landscape and we feel like this dichotomy out there of, we have logging tools and we have metrics tools. And those really evolved from the fact that in 1995, we had to choose between grep or counters. And as technology evolved, those evolved to distribute grep or RDS. And then we have distribute grep with fancy UIs and well, fancy RDS with UIs. And Honeycomb, we were started a couple years ago. We really feel like what if you didn't have to choose? What if technology supported the power of having all the context there the way that you do with logs while still being able to provide instant analytics the way that you have with metrics? >> So the problem that you're solving is one, antiquated methodologies from old architectures and stacks if you will, to helping people save time, with the arcane tools. Is that the main premise? >> We want people to be able to debug their production systems. >> All right, so, beyond that now, the developer that you're targeting, can you take us through a day in the life of where you are helping them, vis a vis the old way? >> Absolutely, so I'll tell a story of when myself and my co-founder, Charity, were working together at PaaS. PaaS, for those who aren't familiar, used to be RD, a backend form of mobile apps. You can think of someone who just wants to build an iOS app, doesn't want to deal with data storage, user records, things like that. And PaaS started in 2011, got bought by Facebook in 2013, spun down very beginning of 2016. And in 2013, when the acquisition happened, we were supporting somewhere on the order of 60,000 different mobile apps. Each one of them could be totally different workload, totally different usage pattern, but any one of them might be experiencing problems. And again, in this old world, this pre-Honeycomb world, we had our top level metrics. We had latency, response, overall throughput, error rates, and we were very proud of them. We were very proud of these big dashboards on the wall that were green. And they were great, except when you had a customer write in being like, "Hey, PaaS is down." And we look at our dashboard we'd be like, "Nope, it's not down. "It must be network issues." >> John: That's on your end. >> Yeah, that's on your end. >> John: Not a good answer. >> Not a good answer, and especially not if that customer was Disney, right? When you're dealing with these high level metrics, and you're processing tens or hundreds of thousands of requests per second, when Disney comes in, they've got eight requests a second and they're seeing all of them fail. Even though those are really important, eight requests per second, you can't tease that out of your graphs. You can't figure out why they're failing, what's going on, how to fix it. You've got to dispatch an engineer to go add a bunch of if app ID equals Disney, track it down, figure out what's going on there. And it takes time. And when we got to Facebook, we were exposed to a type of tool that essentially inspired Honeycomb as it is today that let us capture all this data, capture a bunch of information about everything that was happening down to these eight requests per second. And when a customer complained, we could immediately isolate, oh, this one app, okay let's zoom in. For this one customer, this tiny customer, let's look at their throughput, error rates, latency. Oh, okay. Something looks funny there, let's break down by endpoint for this customer. And it's this iterative fast, highly granular investigation, that is where all of us are approaching today. With our systems getting more complicated you need to be able to isolate. Okay, I don't care about the 200s, I only care about the 500s, and within the 500s, then what's going on? What's going on with this server, with that set of containers? >> So this is basically an issue of data, unstructured data or have the ability to take this data in at the same time with your eye on the prize of instrumentation. And then having the ability to make that addressable and discoverable in real time, is that kind of? >> Yeah, we've been using the term observability to describe this feeling of, I need to be able to find unknown unknowns. And instrumentation is absolutely the tactic to observability of the strategy. It is how people will be able to get information out of their systems in a way that is relevant to their business. A common thing that we'll hear or people will ask, "Oh, can you ingest my nginx logs?" "Can you ingest my SQL logs?" Often, that's a great place to start, but really where are the problems in an application? Where are your problems in the system? Usually it's the places that are custom that the engineers wrote. And tools need to be able to support, providing information, providing graphs, providing analytics in a way that makes it easy for the folks who wrote the code to track down the problem and address them. >> It's a haystack of needles. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> They're all relevant but you don't know which needle you're going to need. >> Exactly. >> So, let me just get this. So I'm ducking out, just trying to understand 'cause this is super important because this is really the key to large scale Cloud ops, what we're talking about here. From a developer standpoint, and we just had a great guest on, talking about testing features and production which is really the important, people want to do that. And then, but for one person, but in production scale, huge problem, opportunity as well. So, if most people think of like, "Oh, I'll just ingest with Splunk," but that's a different, is that different? I mean, 'cause people think of Splunk and they think of Redshift and Kinesis on Amazon, they go, "Okay." Is that the solution? Are you guys different? Are you a tool? How do I understand you guys' context to those known solutions? >> First of all, explain the difference between ourselves and the Redshifts and big queries of the world, and then I'll talk about Splunk. We really view those tools as primarily things built for data scientists. They're in the big data realm, but they are very concerned with being 100% correct. They're concerned with fitting into big data tools and they often have an unfortunate delay in getting data in and making it acquirable. Honeycomb is 100% built for engineers. Engineers of people, the folks who are going to be on the hook for, "Hey, there's downtime, what's going on?" And in-- >> So once business benefits, more data warehouse like. >> Yeah. And what that means is that for Honeycomb, everything is real time. It's real time. We believe in recent data. If you're looking to get query data from a year ago we're not really the thing, but instead of waiting 20 minutes for a query over a huge volume of data, you wait 10 seconds, or it's 3:00 AM and you need to figure out what's happening right now, you can go from query to query, to query, to query, as you come up with hypotheses, validate them or invalidate them, and continue on your investigation path. So that's... >> That makes sense. >> Yeah. >> So data wrangling, doing queries, business intelligence, insights as a service, that's all that? >> Yeah. We almost, we played with and tossed the tagline BI for systems because we want that BI mentality of what's going on, let me investigate. But for the folks who need answers now, an approximate answer now is miles better than a perfect one-- >> And you can't keep large customers waiting, right? At the end of the day, you can't keep the large customers waiting. >> Well, it's also so complicated. The edge is very robust and diverse now. I mean, no-js is a lot of IO going on for instance. So let's just take an example. I had developer talking the other day with me about no-js. It's like, oh, someone's complaining but they're using Firefox. It's like, okay, different memory configuration. So the developer had to debug because the complaints were coming in. Everyone else was fine, but the one guy is complaining because he's on Firefox. Well, how many tabs does he have open? What's the memory look like? So like, this a weird thing, I mean, that's just a weird example, but that's just the kinds of diverse things that developers have to get on. And then where do they start? I mean. >> Absolutely. So, there's something we ran into or we saw our developers run into all the time at PaaS, right? These are mobile developers. They have to worry about not only which version of the app it is, they have to worry about which version of the app, using which version of RSDK on which version of the operating system, where any kind of strange combination of these could result in some terrible user experience. And these are things that don't really work well if you're relying on pre-aggregated 10 series system, like the evolution of the RDS, I mentioned. And for folks who are trying to address this, something like Splunk, these logging tools, frankly, a lot of these tools are built on storage engines that are intended for full text search. They're unstructured text, you're grepping over them, and then you're build indices and structure on top of that. >> There's some lag involved too in that. >> There's so much lag involved. And there's almost this negative feedback loop built in where if you want to add more data, if on each log line you want to start tracking browser user agent, you're going to incur not only extra storage costs, you're going to incur extra read time costs because you're reading that more data, even if you're don't even care about that on those queries. And you're probably incurring cost on the right time to maintain these indices. Honeycomb, we're a column store through and through. We do not care about your unstructured text logs, we really don't want them. We want you to structure your data-- >> John: Did you guys write your own column store or is that? >> We did write our own column store because ultimately there's nothing off the shelf that gave us the speed that we wanted. We wanted to be able to, Hey, sending us data blogs with 20, 50, 200 keys. But if you're running analysis and all you care about is a simple filter and account, you shouldn't have to pull in all this-- >> To become sort of like Ferrari, if you customize, it's really purpose built, is that what you guys did? >> That is. >> So talk about the dynamic, because now you're dealing with things like, I mean, I had a conversation with someone who's looking at say blockchain, where there's some costs involved, obviously writing to the blockchain. And this is not like a crypto thing it's more of a supply chain thing. They want visibility into latency and things of that nature. Does this sounds like you would fit there as a potential use case? Is that something that you guys thought of at all? >> It could absolutely be. I'm actually not super familiar with the blockchain or blockchain based applications but ultimately Honeycomb is intended for you to be able to answer questions about your system in a way that tends to stymie existing tools. So we see lots of people come to us from strange use cases who just want to be able to instrument, "Hey I have this custom logic. "I want to be able to look at what it's doing." And when a customer complains and my graphs are fine or when my graphs are complaining, being able to go in and figure out why. >> Take a minute to talk about the company you founded. How many employees funding, if you can talk about it. And use case customers you have now. And how do you guys engage? The service, is it, do I download code? Is it SaaS? I mean, you got all this great tech. What's the value proposition? >> I think I'll answer this-- >> John: Company first. >> All right. >> John: Status of the company. >> Sure. Honeycomb is about 25 people, 30 people. We raised a series A in January. We are about two and a half years old and we are very much SaaS of the future. We're very opinionated about a number of things and how we want customers to interact with us. So, we are SaaS only. We do offer a secure proxy option for folks who have PII concerns. We only take structured data. So, at our API, you can use whatever you want to slurp data from your system. But at our API, we want JSON. We do offer a wide variety of integrations, connectors, SDKs, to help you structure that data. But ultimately-- >> Do you provide SDKs to your customers? >> We do. So that if they want to instrument their application, we just have the niceties around like batching and doing things asynchronously so it doesn't block their application. But ultimately, so we try to meet folks where they're at, but it's 2016, it was 2017, 2018-- >> You have a hardened API, API pretty much defines your service from an inbound standpoint. Prices, cost, how does someone engage with you guys? When does someone know to engage? Where's the smoke signals? When is the house on fire? Is it like people are standing around? What's the problem? When does someone know to call you guys up at? >> People know to call us when they're having production problems that they can't solve. When it takes them way too long to go from there's an alert that went off or a customer complaint, to, "Oh, I found the problem, I can address it." We price based on storage. So we are a bunch of engineers, we try to keep the business side as simple as possible for better, for worse. And so, the more data you send us, the more it'll cost. If you want a lot of data, but stored for a short period of time, that will cost less than a lot of data stored for a long period of time. One of the things that we, another one of the approaches that is possibly more common in the big data world and less in the monitoring world is we talk a lot about sampling. Sampling as a way to control those costs. Say you are, Facebook, again, I'll return to that example. Facebook knew that in this world where lots and lots of things can go wrong at any point in time, you need to be able to store the actual context of a given event happening. Some unit of work, you want to keep track of all the pieces of metadata that make that piece of work unique. But at Facebook scale, you can't store every single one of them. So, all right, you start to develop these heuristics. What things are more interesting than others? Errors are probably more interesting than 200 okays. Okay. So we'll keep track of most errors, we'll store 1% of successful requests. Okay. Well, within that, what about errors? Okay. Well, things that time out are maybe more interesting than things that are permissioning errors. And you start to develop this sampling scheme that essentially maps to the interesting ness of the traffic that's flowing through your system. To throw out some numbers, I think-- >> Machine learning is perfect for that too. They can then use the sampling. >> Yeah. There's definitely some learning that can happen to determine what things should be dropped on the ground, what requests are perfectly representative of a large swath of things. And Instagram, used a tool like this inside Facebook. They stored something like 1/10 of a percent or a 1/100 of a percent of their requests. 'Cause simply, that was enough to give them a sketch of what representative traffic, what's going wrong, or what's weird that, and is worth digging into. >> Final question. What's your priorities for the product roadmap? What are you guys focused on now? Get some fresh funding, that's great. So expand the team, hiring probably. Like product, what's the focus on the product? >> Focus on the product is making this mindset of observability accessible to software engineers. Right, we're entering this world where more and more, it's the software engineers deploying their code, pushing things out in containers. And they're going to need to also develop this sense of, "Okay, well, how do I make sure "something's working in production? "How do I make sure something keeps working? "And how do I think about correctness "in this world where it's not just my component, "it's my component talking to these other folks' pieces?" We believe really strongly that the era of this single person in a room keeping everything up, is outdated. It's teams now, it's on call rotations. It's handing off the baton and sharing knowledge. One of the things that we're really trying to build into the product, that we're hoping that this is the year that we can really deliver on this, is this feeling of, I might not be the best debugger on the team or I might not be the best person, best constructor of graphs on the team, and John, you might be. But how can a tool help me as a new person on a team, learn from what you've done? How can a tool help me be like, Oh man, last week when John was on call, he ran into something around my SQL also. History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. So how can I learn from the sequence of those things-- >> John: Something an expert system. >> Yeah. Like how can we help build experts? How can we raise entire teams to the level of the best debugger? >> And that's the beautiful thing with metadata, metadata is a wonderful thing. 'Cause Jeff Jonas said on the, he was a Cube alumni, entrepreneur, famous data entrepreneur, observation space is super critical for understanding how to make AI work. And that's to your point, having observation data, super important. And of course our observation space is all things. Here at DevNet Create, Christine, thanks for coming on theCUBE, spending the time. >> Thank you. >> Fascinating story, great new venture. Congratulations. >> Christine: Thank you. >> And tackling the world of making developers more productive in real time in production. Really making an impact to coders and sharing and learning. Here in theCUBE, we're doing our share, live coverage here in Mountain View, DevNet Create. We'll be back with more after this short break. (gentle music)

>> [Voiceover] Live, from Los Angeles, it's theCUBE. Covering Open Source Summit, North America 2017. Brought to you by the Linux Foundation, and Red Hat.>> Hello everyone, welcome back to our special Cube live coverage of Linux Foundation's Open Source Summit North America here in LA, I'm John Furrier your co-host with Stu Mitiman. Our next guest is Christine Corbett Moran, Ph.D. at astronomy, astrophysics post-doctoral fellow at Caltech.>> That's right, it's a mouthful.>> Welcome to theCUBE, a mouthful but you're also keynoting, gave one of the talks opening day today after Jim Zemlin, on tech and culture and politics.>> That's right, yeah.>> Which I thought was fantastic. A lot of great notes there. Connect the dots for us metaphorically speaking, between Caltech and tech and culture. Why did you take that theme?>> Sure. So I've been involved in programming since I was an undergraduate in college. I studied computer science and always attending more and more conferences. hacker cons, security conferences, that sort of stuff. Very early on what attracted me to technology was not just the nitty gritty nuts and bolts of being able to solve a hard technical problem That was a lot of fun, but also the impact that it could have. So even as I went on a very academic track, I continued to make open source contributions. Really seeking that kind of cultural impact. And it wasn't something that I was real vocal about. Talking about. More talking about the technology side of things than the politics side of things. But in the past few years, I think with the rise of fake news, with the rise of various sorts of societal problems that we're seeing as a consequence of technology, I decided I was going to try to speak more to that end of things. So that we can focus on that as a technology community on what are we going to do with this enormous power that we have.>> And looking at that, a couple of direct questions for you, it was awesome talk. You get a lot in there. You were riffing some good stuff there with Jim as well. But you had made a comment that you originally wanted to be lawyer, you went to MIT, and you sort of got pulled in to the dark side>> That's right, yeah.>> In programming. As a former computer scientist myself, what got the bug take us through that moment. Was it you just started coding and said damn I love coding? What was the moment?>> Sure, so I was always talented in math and science. That was part of the reason why I was admitted to MIT and chose to go there. My late father was a lawyer. I didn't really have an example of a technologist in my life. So, to me, career wise I was going to be a lawyer, but I was interested in technology. What kind of lawyer is that? Patent attorney. So that was my career path. MIT, some sort of engineering, then a patent attorney. I got to MIT and realized I didn't have to be a attorney. I could just do the fun stuff. For some people that's the fun part. For me it ended up being when I took my first computer science class. Something that was fun, that I was good at, and that I really got addicted to kind of the feedback loop of you always have a problem you're trying to solve. It doesn't work, it doesn't work. Then you get it to work and then it's great for a minute and then there's a new problem to solve.>> That's a great story. I think it was very inspirational. A lot of folks of watching will be inspired by that. The other thing that inspired me in the key note was your comment about code and culture.>> [Christine] Yeah.>> I love this notion that code is now at a point where open source is a global phenomenon. You mentioned Earth and space.>> [Christine] Yeah.>> You know and all this sort of space is now Linux based now. But coding can shape culture. Explain what you mean by that, because I think it's one of those things that people might not see happening right now, but it is happening. You starting to see the more inclusionary roles and the communities are changing. Code is not just a tech thing. Explain what you mean by code-shaping culture.>> Well we can already that in terms of changing corporate culture. So, for example, 10 or 15, 20 years ago it might be inconceivable to make contributions that might benefit your corporate competitor. And we all have corporate competitors whether that's a nation, the US having competitors. Whether that's your local sports rivalry. We all have competitors, but open source has really shown that you're relying on things that you as a group, no matter what entity you are, you can't do as much as you can if you share your contributions and benefit from people around the globe. So that's one big way I've seen corporate culture in just every day culture change that people have recognized. Whether it's science, or corporate success, you can't do it alone. There's no lone genius. You really have to do it as a community.>> As a collective too you mentioned some of the ruling class and you kind of referring to not ruling class and open source, but also politics. In that gerrymandering was a word you used. We don't hear that often at conferences, but the idea of having more people exposed creates more data. Talk about what you mean by that because this is interesting. This truly is a democratization opportunity.>> [Christine] Absolutely.>> If not handled properly could go away.>> Yeah, I think am a little, I don't know if there's any Game of Thrones fans out there, but you know at some point this season and previous seasons you know Daenerys Targaryen is there and they're like well if you do this you're going to be the same evil person just new face. I think there's a risk of that in the open source community that if it ends up just being a few people it's the same oligarchy. The same sort of corruption just a different face to it. I don't think open source will go that way just based on the people that I've met in the community. It is something that we actively have to guard against and make sure that that we have as many people contributing to open source so that it's not just a few people who are capable of changing the world and have the power to decide whether it's going to be A or B, but as many people as possible.>> Christine, the kind of monetization of open source is always an interesting topic at these kind of shows. You had an interesting piece talking about young people contributing. You know contributing to open source. It's not just oh yeah do it for free and expect them to do it. Same thing in academia a lot of times. Like oh hey, you're going to do that research and participate and write papers and you know money is got to come somewhere to help fund this. How does kind of the money fit into this whole discussion of open source?>> So I think that's been one of the big successes of open source and we heard that from Jim as well today. It isn't you know some sort of unattainable in terms of achieving value for society. When you do something of value, money is a reward for that. The only question is how to distribute that award effectively to the community. What I see sometimes in the community is there's this myth of everyone in open source getting involved for just the fun of it and there's a huge amount of that. I have done a bunch of contributions for free on the side, but I've always in the end gotten some sort monetary reward for that down the line. And someone talked today about that makes you more employable, et cetera. That has left me with the time and freedom to continue that development. I think it's a risk that as a young person who is going into debt for college to not realize that that monetary reward will come or have it be so out of sync with their current life situation that they're unable to get the time to develop the skills. So, I don't think that money is a primary motivating factor for most people in the community, but certainly as Linus said today as well. When you don't have to worry about money that's when you do the really cool nitty-gritty things that might be a risk that then grow to be that next big project.>> It's an interesting comment you made about the US how they couldn't do potentially Linux if it wasn't in the US. It opens up your eyes and you say hmm we got to do better.>> Yeah.>> And so that brings up the whole notion of the radical comment of open source has always been kind of radical and then you know when I was growing up it was a tier two alternative to the big guys. Now it's tier one. I think the stakes are higher and the thing I'd like you to get your comment or reaction to is how does the community take it to the next level when it's bigger than the United States. You have China saying no more ICOs, no more virtual currencies. That's a potential issue there's a data point of many other things that can be on the global scale. Security, the Equifax hack, identity theft, truth in communities is now an issue, and there's more projects more than ever. So I made a comment on Twitter. Whose shoulders do we stand on in the expression of standing on the shoulders before you.>> [Christine] Yeah, you're standing on a sea.>> So it's a discovery challenge of what do we do and how do we get to the truth. What's your thoughts on that?>> That is a large question. I don't know if I can answer it in the short amount of time. So to break it down a little bit. One of the issues is that we're in this global society and we have different portions trying to regulate what's next in technology. For example, China with the ICOs, et cetera. One of the phrases I used in my talk was that the math was on the people's side and I think it is the case still with a lot of the technologies that are distributed. It's very hard for one particular government, or nation state, to say hey we're going to put this back in the box. It's Pandora's box. It's out in the open. So that's a challenge as well for China and other people, the US. If you have some harmful scenario, how to actually regulate that. I don't know how that's going to work out moving forward. I think it is the case in our community how to go to the next level, which is another point that you brought up. One thing that Linus also brought up today, is one of the reasons why it's great to collaborate with corporations is that often they put kind of the finishing touches on a product to really make it to the level that people can engage with it easily. That kind of on ramping to new technology is very easy and that's because of corporations is very incentivized monetarily to do that, whereas the open source community isn't necessarily incentivized to do that. Moreover, a lot of that work that final 1% of a project for the polish is so much more difficult. It's not the fun technical element. So a lot of the open source contributors, myself included, aren't necessarily very excited about that. However, what we saw in Signal, which is a product that it is a non-profit it is something that isn't necessarily for corporate gain, but that final polish and making it very usable did mean that a lot more people are using the product. So in terms of we as a community I think we have to figure out how keeping our radical governance structure, how to get more and more projects to have that final polish. And that'll really take the whole community.>> Let them benefit from it in a way that they're comfortable with now it's not a proprietary lock and it's more of only 10% of most of the applications are uniquely differentiated with open source. Question kind of philosophic thought experiment, or just philosophical question, I'll say astronomy and astrophysics is an interesting background. You've got a world of connected devices, the IoT, Internet of Things, includes people. So, you know I'm sitting there looking at the stars, oh that's the Apache Project, lots of stars in that one. You have these constellations of communities, if you will out there to kind of use the metaphor. And then you got astrophysics, the Milky Way, a lot of gravity around me. You almost take a metaphor talks to how communities work. So let's get your thoughts. How does astrophysics and astronomy relate to some of the dynamics in how self-governing things work?>> I'd love to see that visualization by the way, of the Apache Project and the Milky Way,>> [John] Which one's the Big Dipper?>> That sounds gorgeous, you guys should definitely pursue that.>> John you're going to find something at Caltech, you know our next fellowship.>> Argued who always did the Big Dipper or not, but you know.>> I think some of the challenges are similar in the sciences in that people initially get into it because it's something they're curious about. It's something they love and that's an innate human instinct. People have always gazed up at the stars. People have always wondered how things work. How your computer works? You know let me figure that out. That said, ultimately, they need to eat and feed their families and that sort of stuff. And we often see in the astrophysics community incredibly talented people at some stage in their career leaving for some sort of corporate job. And retaining talent is difficult because a lot of people are forced to move around the globe, to different centers in academia, and that lifestyle can be difficult. The pay often isn't as rewarding as it could be. So to make some sort of parallel between that community and the open source community, retaining talent in open source, if you want people to not necessarily work in open source under Microsoft, under a certain corporation only, but to kind of work more generally. That is something that ultimately, we have to distribute the rewards from that to the community.>> It's kind of interesting. The way I always thought the role of the corporation and open source was always trying to change the game. You know, you mentioned gerrymandering. The old model was we got to influence a slow that down so that we can control it.>> So John we've had people around the globe and even that have made it to space on theCUBE before. I don't know that we've ever had anybody that's been to the South Pole before on theCUBE. So Christine, maybe tell us a little about how's technology you know working in the South Pole and what can you tell our audience about it?>> Sure. So I spent 10 and half months at the South Pole. Not just Antarctica, but literally the middle of the continent, the geographic South Pole. There the US has a research base that houses up to about 200 people during the austral summer months when it's warm that is maybe minus 20 degrees or so. During the cold winter months, it gets completely dark and planes have a very difficult time coming in and out so they close off the station to a skeleton crew to keep the science experiments down there running. There are several astrophysical experiments, several telescopes, as well as many research projects, and that skeleton crew was what I was a part of. 46 people and I was tasked with running the telescope down there and looking at some of the echoes of the Big Bang. And I was basically a telescope doctor. So I was on call much like a sys-admin might be. I was responsible for the kind of IT support for the telescope, but also just physical, something physically broke, kind of replacing that. And that meant I could be woken up in the middle of night because of some kind of package update issue or anything like that and I'd have to hike out in minus a 100 degrees to fix this, sometimes. Oftentimes, there was IT support on the station so we did have internet running to the telescope which was about a kilometer away. It took me anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes to walk out there. So if it didn't require on-site support sometimes I could do the work in my pajamas to kind of fix that. So it was a kind of traditional computer support role in a very untraditional environment.>> That's an IoT device isn't it.>> Yeah.>> Stu and I are always interested in the younger generation as we both have kids who are growing up in this new digital culture. What's your feeling in terms of the younger generation that are coming up because people going to school now, digital natives, courseware, online isn't always the answer, people learn differently. Your thoughts on onboarding the younger generation and for the inclusion piece which is super important whether it's women in tech and/or just people just getting more people into computer science. What are some of things that you see happening that excite you and what are some of the things that get you concerned?>> Yeah, so I had the chance I mentioned a little in my talk to teach 12 high school students how to computer program this summer. Some of them have been through computer programming classes at their colleges, or at their high schools, some not. What I saw when I was in high school was a huge variety of competence in the high school teachers that I had. Some were amazing and inspiring. Others because in the US you need a degree in education, but not necessarily a degree in the field that you're teaching. I think that there's a huge lack of people capable of teaching the next generation who are working at the high school level. It's not that there's a huge lack of people who are capable, kind of anyone at this conference could sit down and help a high schooler get motivated and self-study. So I think teacher training is something that I'm concerned about. In terms of things I'm very excited about, we're not quite there yet with the online courses, but the ability to acquire that knowledge online is very, very exciting. In addition, I think we're waking up as a society to the fact that four year college isn't necessarily the best preparation for every single field. For some fields it's very useful. For other fields, particularly engineering, maybe even computer science engineering, apprenticeships or practical experience could be as valuable if not more valuable for less expense. So I'm excited about new initiatives, these coding bootcamps. I think there's a difficulty in regulation in that you don't know for a new coding bootcamp. Is it just trying to get people's money? Is it really going to help their careers? So we're in a very frothy time there, but I think ultimately how it will shake out is it's going to help people enter technology jobs quicker.>> You know there's a percentage of jobs that aren't even invented yet. So there's AI. You see self-driving cars. These things are easy indicators that hey society's changing.>> Yeah. And it's also good to be helpful for a professionals like us, older professionals who want to keep up in this ever growing field and I don't necessarily want to go back for a second Ph.D, but I'll absolutely take an online course in something I didn't see in my undergrad.>> I mean you can get immersed in anything these days online. It's great, there's a lot of community behind it. Christine thanks so much for sharing. Congratulations on a great keynote. Thanks for spending some time with us.>> [Christine] Yeah, thanks for having me.>> It's theCUBE live coverage here in LA for Open Source Summit in North America. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, and we'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break.

>>Hey, everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner, showcase women in tech. I'm Lisa Martin from the cube. And today we're gonna be looking into the exciting evolution of women in the tech industry. I'm going to be joined by Danielle GShock, the ISP PSA director at AWS. And we have the privilege of speaking with some wicked smart women from Teradata NetApp. JFI a 10th revolution group, company and honeycomb.io. We're gonna look at some of the challenges and biases that women face in the tech industry, especially in leadership roles. We're also gonna be exploring how are these tech companies addressing diversity, equity and inclusion across their organizations? How can we get more young girls into stem earlier in their careers? So many questions. So let's go ahead and get started. This is the AWS partner showcase women in tech. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase. This is season one, episode three. And I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I've got two great guests here with me to talk about women in tech. Hillary Ashton joins us the chief product officer at Terry data. And Danielle Greshaw is back with us, the ISV PSA director at AWS ladies. It's great to have you on the program talking through such an important topic, Hillary, let's go ahead and start with you. Give us a little bit of an intro into you, your background, and a little bit about Teradata. >>Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Hillary Ashton. I head up the products organization. So that's our engineering product management office of the CTO team. Um, at Teradata I've been with Terra data for just about three years and really have spent the last several decades. If I can say that in the data and analytics space, um, I spent time, uh, really focused on the value of, of analytics at scale, and I'm super excited to be here at Teradata. I'm also a mom of two teenage boys. And so as we talk about women in tech, I think there's, um, uh, lots of different dimensions and angles of that. Um, at Teradata, we are partnered very deeply with AWS and happy to talk a little bit more about that, um, throughout this discussion as well. >>Excellent. A busy mom of two teen boys. My goodness. I don't know how you do it. Let's now look, Atter data's views of diversity, equity and inclusion. It's a, the, it's a topic that's important to everyone, but give us a snapshot into some of the initiatives that Terra data has there. >>Yeah, I have to say, I am super proud to be working at Teradata. We have gone through, uh, a series of transformations, but I think it starts with culture and we are deeply committed to diversity, equity and inclusion. It's really more than just a statement here. It's just how we live our lives. Um, and we use, uh, data to back that up. Um, in fact, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies for the 13th year in a row. Um, and all of our executive leadership team has taken an oath around D E and I that's available on LinkedIn as well. So, um, in fact, our leadership team reporting into the CEO is just about 50 50, um, men and women, which is the first time I've worked in a company where that has been the case. And I think as individuals, we can probably appreciate what a huge difference that makes in terms of not just being a representative, but truly being on a, on a diverse and equitable, uh, team. And I think it really, uh, improves the behaviors that we can bring, um, to our office. >>There's so much value in that. It's I impressive to see about a 50 50 at the leadership level. That's not something that we see very often. Tell me how you, Hillary, how did you get into tech? Were you an engineering person by computer science, or did you have more of a zigzaggy path to where you are now? >>I'm gonna pick door number two and say more zigzaggy. Um, I started off thinking, um, that I started off as a political science major or a government major. Um, and I was probably destined to go into, um, the law field, but actually took a summer course at Harvard. I did not go to Harvard, but I took a summer course there and learned a lot about multimedia and some programming. And that really set me on a trajectory of how, um, data and analytics can truly provide value and, and outcomes to our customers. Um, and I have been living that life ever since. Um, I graduated from college, so, um, I was very excited and privileged in my early career to, uh, work in a company where I found after my first year that I was managing, um, uh, kids, people who had graduated from Harvard business school and from MIT Sloan school. Um, and that was super crazy, cuz I did not go to either of those schools, but I sort of have always had a natural knack for how do you take technology and, and the really cool things that technology can do, but because I'm not a programmer by training, I'm really focused on the value that I'm able to help, um, organizations really extract value, um, from the technology that we can create, which I think is fantastic. >>I think there's so much value in having a zigzag path into tech. You bring Danielle, you and I have talked about this many times you bring such breadth and such a wide perspective. That really is such a value. Add to teams. Danielle, talk to us from AWS's perspective about what can be done to encourage more young women to get and under and underrepresented groups as well, to get into stem and stay. >>Yeah, and this is definitely a challenge as we're trying to grow our organization and kind of shift the numbers. And the reality is, especially with the more senior folks in our organization, unless you bring folks with a zigzag path, the likelihood is you won't be able to change the numbers that you have. Um, but for me, it's really been about, uh, looking at that, uh, the folks who are just graduating college, maybe in other roles where they are adjacent to technology and to try to spark their interest and show that yes, they can do it because oftentimes it's really about believing in themselves and, and realizing that we need folks with all sorts of different perspectives to kind of come in, to be able to help really, um, provide both products and services and solutions for all types of people inside of technology, which requires all sorts of perspectives. >>Yeah, the diverse perspectives. There's so much value and there's a lot of data that demonstrates how much value revenue impact organizations can make by having diversity, especially at the leadership level. Hillary, let's go back to you. We talked about your career path. You talked about some of the importance of the focus on de and I at Tarana, but what are, what do you think can be done to encourage, to sorry, to recruit more young women and under groups into tech, any, any carrot there that you think are really important that we need to be dangling more of? >>Yeah, absolutely. And I'll build on what Danielle just said. I think the, um, bringing in diverse understandings, um, of, of customer outcomes, I mean, I, the we've really moved from technology for technology's sake and I know AWS and entirety to have had a lot of conversations on how do we drive customer outcomes that are differentiated in the market and really being customer centric and technology is wonderful. You can do wonderful things with it. You can do not so wonderful things with it as well, but unless you're really focused on the outcomes and what customers are seeking, um, technology is not hugely valuable. And so I think bringing in people who understand, um, voice of customer who understand those outcomes, and those are not necessarily the, the, the folks who are PhD in mathematics or statistics, um, those can be people who understand a day in the life of a data scientist or a day in the life of a citizen data scientist. And so really working to bridge the high impact technology with the practical kind of usability, usefulness of data and analytics in our cases, I think is something that we need more of in tech and sort of demystifying tech and freeing technology so that everybody can use it and having a really wide range of people who understand not just the bits and bites and, and how to program, but also the value in outcomes that technology through data and analytics can drive. >>Yeah. You know, we often talk about the hard skills, but this, their soft skills are equally, if not more important that even just being curious, being willing to ask questions, being not afraid to be vulnerable, being able to show those sides of your personality. I think those are important for, for young women and underrepresented groups to understand that those are just as important as some of the harder technical skills that can be taught. >>That's right. >>What do you think about from a bias perspective, Hillary, what have you seen in the tech industry and how do you think we can leverage culture as you talked about to help dial down some of the biases that are going on? >>Yeah. I mean, I think first of all, and, and there's some interesting data out there that says that 90% of the population, which includes a lot of women have some inherent bias in their day, day behaviors when it comes to to women in particular. But I'm sure that that is true across all kinds of, of, um, diverse and underrepresented folks in, in the world. And so I think acknowledging that we have bias and actually really learning how, what that can look like, how that can show up. We might be sitting here and thinking, oh, of course I don't have any bias. And then you realize that, um, as you, as you learn more about, um, different types of bias, that actually you do need to kind of, um, account for that and change behaviors. And so I think learning is sort of a fundamental, um, uh, grounding for all of us to really know what bias looks like, know how it shows up in each of us. >>Um, if we're leaders know how it shows up in our teams and make sure that we are constantly getting better, we're, we're not gonna be perfect anytime soon. But I think being on a path to improvement to overcoming bias, um, is really, is really critical. And part of that is really starting the dialogue, having the conversations, holding ourselves and each other accountable, um, when things aren't going in, in a, in a Coptic way and being able to talk openly about that, that felt, um, like maybe there was some bias in that interaction and how do we, um, how do we make good on that? How do we change our, our behavior? Fundamentally of course, data and analytics can have some bias in it as well. And so I think as we look at the, the technology aspect of bias, um, looking at at ethical AI, I think is a, a really important, uh, additional area. And I'm sure we could spend another 20 minutes talking about that, but I, I would be remiss if I didn't talk more about sort of the bias, um, and the over the opportunity to overcome bias in data and analytics as well. >>Yeah. The opportunity to overcome it is definitely there you bring up a couple of really good points, Hillary. It, it starts with awareness. We need to be aware that there are inherent biases in data in thought. And also to your other point, hold people accountable ourselves, our teammates, that's critical to being able to, to dial that back down, Daniel, I wanna get your perspective on, on your view of women in leadership roles. Do you think that we have good representation or we still have work to do in there? >>I definitely think in both technical and product roles, we definitely have some work to do. And, you know, when I think about, um, our partnership with Teradata, part of the reason why it's so important is, you know, Teradata solution is really the brains of a lot of companies. Um, you know, the what, how, what they differentiate on how they figure out insights into their business. And it's, it's all about the product itself and the data and the same is true at AWS. And, you know, we really could do some work to have some more women in these technical roles, as well as in the product, shaping the products. Uh, just for all the reasons that we just kind of talked about over the last 10 minutes, um, in order to, you know, move bias out of our, um, out of our solutions and also to just build better products and have, uh, better, you know, outcomes for customers. So I think there's a bit of work to do still. >>I agree. There's definitely a bit of work to do, and it's all about delivering those better outcomes for customers at the end of the day, we need to figure out what the right ways are of doing that and working together in a community. Um, we've had obviously a lot had changed in the last couple of years, Hillary, what's your, what have you seen in terms of the impact that the pandemic has had on this status of women in tech? Has it been a pro is silver lining the opposite? What are you seeing? >>Yeah, I mean, certainly there's data out there that tells us factually that it has been, um, very difficult for women during COVID 19. Um, women have, uh, dropped out of the workforce for a wide range of, of reasons. Um, and, and that I think is going to set us back all of us, the, the Royal us or the Royal we back, um, years and years. Um, and, and it's very unfortunate because I think we we're at a time when we're making great progress and now to see COVID, um, setting us back in, in such a powerful way. I think there's work to be done to understand how do we bring people back into the workforce. Um, how do we do that? Understanding work life balance, better understanding virtual and remote, working better. I think in the technology sector, um, we've really embraced, um, hybrid virtual work and are, are empowering people to bring their whole selves to work. >>And I think if anything, these, these zoom calls have, um, both for the men and the women on my team. In fact, I would say much more. So for the men on my team, I'm seeing, I was seeing more kids in the background, more kind of split childcare duties, more ability to start talking about, um, other responsibilities that maybe they had, uh, especially in the early days of COVID where maybe daycares were shut down. And, um, you had, you know, maybe a parent was sick. And so we saw quite a lot of, um, people bringing their whole selves to the office, which I think was, was really wonderful. Um, uh, even our CEO saw some of that. And I think, um, that that really changes the dialogue, right? It changes it to maybe scheduling meetings at a time when, um, people can do it after daycare drop off. >>Um, and really allowing that both for men and for women makes it better for, for women overall. So I would like to think that this hybrid working, um, environment and that this, um, uh, whole view into somebody's life that COVID has really provided for probably for white collar workers, if I'm being honest for, um, people who are in a, at a better point of privilege, they don't necessarily have to go into the office every day. I would like to think that tech can lead the way in, um, you know, coming out of the, the old COVID. I don't know if we have a new COVID coming, but the old COVID and really leading the way for women and for people, um, to transform how we do work, um, leveraging data and analytics, but also, um, overcoming some of the, the disparities that exist for women in particular in the workforce. >>Yeah, I think there's, there's like we say, there's a lot of opportunity there and I like your point of hopefully tech can be that guiding light that shows us this can be done. We're all humans at the end of the day. And ultimately if we're able to have some sort of work life balance, everything benefits, our work or more productive, higher performing teams impacts customers, right? There's so much value that can be gleaned from, from that hybrid model and embracing for humans. We need to be able to, to work when we can, we've learned that you don't have to be, you know, in an office 24, 7 commuting, crazy hours flying all around the world. We can get a lot of things done in a ways that fit people's lives rather than taking command over it. Wanna get your advice, Hillary, if you were to talk to your younger self, what would be some of the key pieces of advice you would say? And Danielle and I have talked about this before, and sometimes we, we would both agree on like, ask more questions. Don't be afraid to raise your hand, but what advice would you give your younger self and that younger generation in terms of being inspired to get into tech >>Oh, inspired and being in tech? You know, I think looking at technology as, in some ways, I feel like we do a disservice to, um, inclusion when we talk about stem, cuz I think stem can be kind of daunting. It can be a little scary for people for younger people. When I, when I go and talk to folks at schools, I think stem is like, oh, all the super smart kids are over there. They're all like maybe they're all men. And so, um, it's, it's a little, uh, intimidating. Um, and stem is actually, you know, especially for, um, people joining the workforce today. It's actually how you've been living your life since you were born. I mean, you know, stem inside and out because you walk around with a phone and you know how to get your internet working and like that is technology right. >>Fundamentally. And so demystifying stem as something that is around how we, um, actually make our, our lives useful and, and, and how we can change outcomes. Um, through technology I think is maybe a different lens to put on it. So, and there's absolutely for, for hard sciences, there's absolutely a, a great place in the world for folks who wanna pursue that and men and women can do that. So I, I don't want to be, um, uh, setting the wrong expectations, but I, I think stem is, is very holistic in, um, in the change that's happening globally for us today across economies, across global warming, across all kinds of impactful issues. And so I think everybody who's interested in, in some of that world change can participate in stem. It just may be through a different, through a different lens than how we classically talk about stem. >>So I think there's great opportunity to demystify stem. I think also, um, what I would tell my younger self is choose your bosses wisely. And that sounds really funny. That sounds like inside out almost, but I think choose the person that you're gonna work for in your first five to seven years. And it might be more than one person, but be, be selective, maybe be a little less selective about the exact company or the exact title. I think picking somebody that, you know, we talk about mentors and we talk about sponsors and those are important. Um, but the person you're gonna spend in your early career, a lot of your day with a lot, who's gonna influence a lot of the outcomes for you. That is the person that you, I think want to be more selective about, um, because that person can set you up for success and give you opportunities and set you on course to be, um, a standout or that person can hold you back. >>And that person can put you in the corner and not invite you to the meetings and not give you those opportunities. And so we're in an economy today where you actually can, um, be a little bit picky about who you go and work for. And I would encourage my younger self. I actually, I just lucked out actually, but I think that, um, my first boss really set me, um, up for success, gave me a lot of feedback and coaching. Um, and some of it was really hard to hear, but it really set me up for, for, um, the, the path that I've been on ever since. So it, that would be my advice. >>I love that advice. I it's brilliant. I didn't think it choose your bosses wisely. Isn't something that we primarily think about. I think a lot of people think about the big name companies that they wanna go after and put on a resume, but you bring up a great point. And Danielle and I have talked about this with other guests about mentors and sponsors. I think that is brilliant advice and also more work to do to demystify stem. But luckily we have great family leaders like the two of you helping us to do that. Ladies, I wanna thank you so much for joining me on the program today and talking through what you're seeing in de and I, what your companies are doing and the opportunities that we have to move the needle. Appreciate your time. >>Thank you so much. Great to see you, Danielle. Thank you Lisa, to see you. >>My pleasure for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the AWS partner showcase season one, episode three. Hey everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase. This is season one, episode three, with a focus on women in tech. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I've got two guests here with me, Sue Peretti, the EVP of global AWS strategic alliances at Jefferson Frank, a 10th revolution group company, and Danielle brushoff. One of our cube alumni joins us ISV PSA director, ladies. It's great to have you on the program talking about a, a topic that is near and dear to my heart at women in tech. >>Thank you, Lisa. >>So let's go ahead and start with you. Give the audience an understanding of Jefferson Frank, what does the company do and about the partnership with AWS? >>Sure. Um, so let's just start, uh, Jefferson Frank is a 10th revolution group company. And if you look at it, it's really talent as a service. So Jefferson Frank provides talent solutions all over the world for AWS clients, partners and users, et cetera. And we have a sister company called revelent, which is a talent creation company within the AWS ecosystem. So we create talent and put it out in the ecosystem. Usually underrepresented groups over half of them are women. And then we also have, uh, a company called rubra, which is a delivery model around AWS technology. So all three companies fall under the 10th revolution group organization. >>Got it. Danielle, talk to me a little bit about from AWS's perspective and the focus on hiring more women in technology and about the partnership. >>Yes. I mean, this has definitely been a focus ever since I joined eight years ago, but also just especially in the last few years we've grown exponentially and our customer base has changed. You know, we wanna have, uh, an organization interacting with them that reflects our customers, right. And, uh, we know that we need to keep pace with that even with our growth. And so we've very much focused on early career talent, um, bringing more women and underrepresented minorities into the organization, sponsoring those folks, promoting them, uh, giving them paths to growth, to grow inside of the organization. I'm an example of that. Of course I benefit benefited from it, but also I try to bring that into my organization as well. And it's super important. >>Tell me a little bit about how you benefited from that, Danielle. >>Um, I just think that, um, you know, I I've been able to get, you know, a seat at the table. I think that, um, I feel as though I have folks supporting me, uh, very deeply and wanna see me succeed. And also they put me forth as, um, you know, a, represent a representative, uh, to bring more women into the organization as well. And I think, um, they give me a platform, uh, in order to do that, um, like this, um, but also many other, uh, spots as well. Um, and I'm happy to do it because I feel that, you know, if you always wanna feel that you're making a difference in your job, and that is definitely a place where I get that time and space in order to be that representative to, um, bring more, more women into benefiting from having careers in technology, which there's a lot of value there, >>A lot of value. Absolutely. So back over to you, what are some of the trends that you are seeing from a gender diversity perspective in tech? We know the, the numbers of women in technical positions, uh, right. There's so much data out there that shows when girls start dropping up, but what are some of the trends that you are seeing? >>So it's, that's a really interesting question. And, and Lisa, I had a whole bunch of data points that I wanted to share with you, but just two weeks ago, uh, I was in San Francisco with AWS at the, at the summit. And we were talking about this. We were talking about how we can collectively together attract more women, not only to, uh, AWS, not only to technology, but to the AWS ecosystem in particular. And it was fascinating because I was talking about, uh, the challenges that women have and how hard to believe, but about 5% of women who were in the ecosystem have left in the past few years, which was really, really, uh, something that shocked everyone when we, when we were talking about it, because all of the things that we've been asking for, for instance, uh, working from home, um, better pay, uh, more flexibility, uh, better maternity leave seems like those things are happening. >>So we're getting what we want, but people are leaving. And it seemed like the feedback that we got was that a lot of women still felt very underrepresented. The number one thing was that they, they couldn't be, you can't be what you can't see. So because they, we feel collectively women, uh, people who identify as women just don't see enough women in leadership, they don't see enough mentors. Um, I think I've had great mentors, but, but just not enough. I'm lucky enough to have a pres a president of our company, the president of our company, Zoe Morris is a woman and she does lead by example. So I'm very lucky for that. And Jefferson, Frank really quickly, we put out a hiring a salary and hiring guide a career and hiring guide every year and the data points. And that's about 65 pages long. No one else does it. Uh, it gives an abundance of information around, uh, everything about the AWS ecosystem that a hiring manager might need to know. But there is what, what I thought was really unbelievable was that only 7% of the people that responded to it were women. So my goal, uh, being that we have such a very big global platform is to get more women to respond to that survey so we can get as much information and take action. So >>Absolutely 7%. So a long way to go there. Danielle, talk to me about AWS's focus on women in tech. I was watching, um, Sue, I saw that you shared on LinkedIn, the Ted talk that the CEO and founder of girls and co did. And one of the things that she said was that there was a, a survey that HP did some years back that showed that, um, 60%, that, that men will apply for jobs if they only meet 60% of the list of requirements. Whereas with females, it's far, far less, we've all been in that imposter syndrome, um, conundrum before. But Danielle, talk to us about AWS, a specific focus here to get these numbers up. >>I think it speaks to what Susan was talking about, how, you know, I think we're approaching it top and bottom, right? We're looking out at what are the, who are the women who are currently in technical positions and how can we make AWS an attractive place for them to work? And that's all a lot of the changes that we've had around maternity leave and, and those types of things, but then also, um, more flexible working, uh, can, you know, uh, arrangements, but then also, um, early, how can we actually impact early, um, career women and actually women who are still in school. Um, and our training and certification team is doing amazing things to get, um, more girls exposed to AWS, to technology, um, and make it a less intimidating place and have them look at employees from AWS and say like, oh, I can see myself in those people. >>Um, and kind of actually growing the viable pool of candidates. I think, you know, we're, we're limited with the viable pool of candidates, um, when you're talking about mid to late career. Um, but how can we, you know, help retrain women who are coming back into the workplace after, you know, having a child and how can we help with military women who want to, uh, or underrepresented minorities who wanna move into AWS, we have a great military program, but then also just that early high school, uh, career, you know, getting them in, in that trajectory. >>Sue, is that something that Jefferson Frank is also able to help with is, you know, getting those younger girls before they start to feel there's something wrong with me. I don't get this. Talk to us about how Jefferson Frank can help really drive up that in those younger girls. >>Uh, let me tell you one other thing to refer back to that summit that we did, uh, we had breakout sessions and that was one of the topics. What can cuz that's the goal, right? To make sure that, that there are ways to attract them. That's the goal? So some of the things that we talked about was mentoring programs, uh, from a very young age, some people said high school, but then we said even earlier, goes back to you. Can't be what you can't see. So, uh, getting mentoring programs, uh, established, uh, we also talked about some of the great ideas was being careful of how we speak to women using the right language to attract them. And some, there was a teachable moment for, for me there actually, it was really wonderful because, um, an African American woman said to me, Sue and I, I was talking about how you can't be what you can't see. >>And what she said was Sue, it's really different. Um, for me as an African American woman, uh, or she identified, uh, as nonbinary, but she was relating to African American women. She said, your white woman, your journey was very different than my journey. And I thought, this is how we're going to learn. I wasn't offended by her calling me out at all. It was a teachable moment. And I thought I understood that, but those are the things that we need to educate people on those, those moments where we think we're, we're saying and doing the right thing, but we really need to get that bias out there. So here at Jefferson, Frank, we're, we're trying really hard to get that careers and hiring guide out there. It's on our website to get more women, uh, to talk to it, but to make suggestions in partnership with AWS around how we can do this mentoring, we have a mentor me program. We go around the country and do things like this. We, we try to get the education out there in partnership with AWS. Uh, we have a, a women's group, a women's leadership group, uh, so much that, that we do, and we try to do it in partnership with AWS. >>Danielle, can you comment on the impact that AWS has made so far, um, regarding some of the trends and, and gender diversity that Sue was talking about? What's the impact that's been made so far with this partnership? >>Well, I mean, I think just being able to get more of the data and have awareness of leaders, uh, on how <laugh>, you know, it used to be a, a couple years back, I would feel like sometimes the, um, uh, solving to bring more women into the organization was kind of something that folks thought, oh, this is Danielle is gonna solve this. You know? And I think a lot of folks now realize, oh, this is something that we all need to solve for. And a lot of my colleagues who maybe a couple years ago, didn't have any awareness or didn't even have the tools to do what they needed to do in order to improve the statistics on their, or in their organizations. Now actually have those tools and are able to kind of work with, um, work with companies like Susan's work with Jefferson Frank in order to actually get the data and actually make good decisions and feel as though, you know, they, they often, these are not lived experiences for these folks, so they don't know what they don't know. And by providing data and providing awareness and providing tooling and then setting goals, I think all of those things have really turned, uh, things around in a very positive way. >>And so you bring up a great point about from a diversity perspective, what is Jefferson Frank doing to, to get those data points up, to get more women of, of all well, really underrepresented minorities to, to be able to provide that feedback so that you can, can have the data and gleamy insights from it to help companies like AWS on their strategic objectives. >>Right? So as I, when I go back to that higher that, uh, careers in hiring guide, that is my focus today, really because the more data that we have, I mean, the, and the data takes, uh, you know, we need people to participate in order to, to accurately, uh, get a hold of that data. So that's why we're asking, uh, we're taking the initiative to really expand our focus. We are a global organization with a very, very massive database all over the world, but if people don't take action, then we can't get the right. The, the, the data will not be as accurate as we'd like it to be. Therefore take better action. So what we're doing is we're asking people all over the, all over the world to participate on our website, Jefferson frank.com, the se the high, uh, in the survey. So we can learn as much as we can. >>7% is such a, you know, Danielle and I we're, we've got to partner on this just to sort of get that message out there, get more data so we can execute, uh, some of the other things that we're doing. We're, we're partnering in. As I mentioned, more of these events, uh, we're, we're doing around the summits, we're gonna be having more ed and I events and collecting more information from women. Um, like I said, internally, we do practice what we preach and we have our own programs that are, that are out there that are within our own company where the women who are talking to candidates and clients every single day are trying to get that message out there. So if I'm speaking to a client or one of our internal people are speaking to a client or a candidate, they're telling them, listen, you know, we really are trying to get these numbers up. >>We wanna attract as many people as we can. Would you mind going to this, uh, hiring guide and offering your own information? So we've gotta get that 7% up. We've gotta keep talking. We've gotta keep, uh, getting programs out there. One other thing I wanted to Danielle's point, she mentioned, uh, women in leadership, the number that we gathered was only 9% of women in leadership within the AWS ecosystem. We've gotta get that number up, uh, as well because, um, you know, I know for me, when I see people like Danielle or, or her peers, it inspires me. And I feel like, you know, I just wanna give back, make sure I send the elevator back to the first floor and bring more women in to this amazing ecosystem. >>Absolutely. That's not that metaphor I do too, but we, but to your point to get that those numbers up, not just at AWS, but everywhere else we need, it's a help me help use situation. So ladies underrepresented minorities, if you're watching go to the Jefferson Frank website, take the survey, help provide the data so that the woman here that are doing this amazing work, have it to help make decisions and have more of females and leadership roles or underrepresented minorities. So we can be what we can see. Ladies, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing what you guys are doing together to partner on this important. Cause >>Thank you for having me, Leah, Lisa, >>Thank you. My pleasure for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of the AWS partner showcase. Thanks for your time. Hey everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase season one, episode three women in tech. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. We've got two female rock stars here with me next. Stephanie Curry joins us the worldwide head of sales and go to market strategy for AWS at NetApp and Danielle GShock is back one of our QM ISV PSA director at AWS. Looking forward to a great conversation, ladies, about a great topic, Stephanie, let's go ahead and start with you. Give us an overview of your story, how you got into tech and what inspired you. >>Thanks so much, Lisa and Danielle. It's great to be on this show with you. Um, thank you for that. Uh, my name's Stephanie cur, as Lisa mentioned, I'm the worldwide head of sales for, uh, AWS at NetApp and run a global team of sales people that sell all things AWS, um, going back 25 years now, uh, when I first started my career in tech, it was kind of by accident. Um, I come from a different background. I have a business background and a technical background from school, um, but had been in a different career and I had an opportunity to try something new. Um, I had an ally really that reached out to me and said, Hey, you'd be great for this role. And I thought, I'd take a chance. I was curious. Um, and, uh, it, it turned out to be a 25 year career, um, that I'm really, really excited about and, and, um, really thankful for that person, for introducing me to the, to the industry >>25 years in counting. I'm sure Danielle, we've talked about your background before. So what I wanna focus on with you is the importance of diversity for high performance. I know what a machine AWS is, and Stephanie'll come back to you with the same question, but talk about that, Danielle, from your perspective, that importance, um, for diversity to drive the performance. >>Yeah. Yeah. I truly believe that, you know, in order to have high performing teams, that you have to have people from all different types of backgrounds and experiences. And we do find that oftentimes being, you know, field facing, if we're not reflecting our customers and connecting with them deeply, um, on, on the levels that they're at, we, we end up missing them. And so for us, it's very important to bring people of lots of different technical backgrounds experiences. And of course, both men, women, and underrepresented minorities and put that forth to our customers, um, in order to make that connection and to end up with better outcomes. So >>Definitely it's all about outcomes, Stephanie, your perspective and NetApp's perspective on diversity for creating highly performant teams and organizations. >>I really aligned with Danielle on the comment she made. And in addition to that, you know, just from building teams in my, um, career know, we've had three times as many women on my team since we started a year ago and our results are really showing in that as well. Um, we find the teams are stronger, they're more collaborative and to Danielle's point really reflective, not only our partners, but our customers themselves. So this really creates connections, which are really, really important to scale our businesses and, and really, uh, meet the customer where they're at as well. So huge proponent of that ourselves, and really finding that we have to be intentional in our hiring and intentional in how we attract diversity to our teams. >>So Stephanie let's stay with you. So a three X increase in women on the team in a year, especially the kind of last year that we've had is really incredible. I, I like your, I, your thoughts on there needs to be a, there needs to be focus and, and thought in how teams are hired. Let's talk about attracting and retaining those women now, especially in sales roles, we all know the number, the percentages of women in technical roles, but what are some of the things that, that you do Stephanie, that NetApp does to attract and retain women in those sales roles? >>The, the attracting part's really interesting. And we find that, you know, you, you read the stats and I'd say in my experience, they're also true in the fact that, um, a lot of women would look at a job description and say, I can't do a hundred percent of that, that, so I'm not even going to apply with the women that we've attracted to our team. We've actually intentionally reached out and targeted those people in a good way, um, to say, Hey, we think you've got what it takes. Some of the feedback I've got from those women are, gosh, I didn't think I could ever get this role. I didn't think I had the skills to do that. And they've been hired and they are doing a phenomenal job. In addition to that, I think a lot of the feedback I've got from these hires are, Hey, it's an aggressive sales is aggressive. Sales is competitive. It's not an environment that I think I can be successful in. And what we're showing them is bring those softer skills around collaboration, around connection, around building teams. And they do, they do bring a lot of that to the team. Then they see others like them there and they know they can be successful cuz they see others like them on the team, >>The whole concept of we can't be what we can't see, but we can be what we can't see is so important. You said a couple things, Stephanie, that really stuck with me. And one of them was an interview on the Cub I was doing, I think a couple weeks ago, um, about women in tech. And the stat that we talked about was that women will apply will not apply for a job unless they meet 100% of the skills and the requirements that it's listed, but men will, if they only meet 60. And I, that just shocked me that I thought, you know, I, I can understand that imposter syndrome is real. It's a huge challenge, but the softer skills, as you mentioned, especially in the last two years, plus the ability to communicate, the ability to collaborate are incredibly important to, to drive that performance of any team of any business. >>Absolutely. >>Danielle, talk to me about your perspective and AWS as well for attracting and retaining talent. And, and, and particularly in some of those challenging roles like sales that as Stephanie said, can be known as aggressive. >>Yeah, for sure. I mean, my team is focused on the technical aspect of the field and we definitely have an uphill battle for sure. Um, two things we are focused on first and foremost is looking at early career women and that how we, how can we bring them into this role, whether in they're in support functions, uh, cl like answering the phone for support calls, et cetera, and how, how can we bring them into this organization, which is a bit more strategic, more proactive. Um, and then the other thing that as far as retention goes, you know, sometimes there will be women who they're on a team and there are no other women on that team. And, and for me, it's about building community inside of AWS and being part of, you know, we have women on solution architecture organizations. We have, uh, you know, I just personally connect people as well and to like, oh, you should meet this person. Oh, you should talk to that person. Because again, sometimes they can't see someone on their team like them and they just need to feel anchored, especially as we've all been, you know, kind of stuck at home, um, during the pandemic, just being able to make those connections with women like them has been super important and just being a, a long tenured Amazonian. Um, that's definitely one thing I'm able to, to bring to the table as well. >>That's so important and impactful and spreads across organizations in a good way. Daniel let's stick with you. Let's talk about some of the allies that you've had sponsors, mentors that have really made a difference. And I said that in past tense, but I also mean in present tense, who are some of those folks now that really inspire you? >>Yeah. I mean, I definitely would say that one of my mentors and someone who, uh, ha has been a sponsor of my career has, uh, Matt YK, who is one of our control tower GMs. He has really sponsored my career and definitely been a supporter of mine and pushed me in positive ways, which has been super helpful. And then other of my business partners, you know, Sabina Joseph, who's a cube alum as well. She definitely has been, was a fabulous partner to work with. Um, and you know, between the two of us for a period of time, we definitely felt like we could, you know, conquer the world. It's very great to go in with a, with another strong woman, um, you know, and, and get things done, um, inside of an organization like AWS. >>Absolutely. And S I've, I've agreed here several times. So Stephanie, same question for you. You talked a little bit about your kind of, one of your, uh, original early allies in the tech industry, but talk to me about allies sponsors, mentors who have, and continue to make a difference in your life. >>Yeah. And, you know, I think it's a great differentiation as well, right? Because I think that mentors teach us sponsors show us the way and allies make room for us at the table. And that is really, really key difference. I think also as women leaders, we need to make room for others at the table too, and not forget those softer skills that we bring to the table. Some of the things that Danielle mentioned as well about making those connections for others, right. And making room for them at the table. Um, some of my allies, a lot of them are men. Brian ABI was my first mentor. Uh, he actually is in the distribution, was in distribution, uh, with advent tech data no longer there. Um, Corey Hutchinson, who's now at Hashi Corp. He's also another ally of mine and remains an ally of mine, even though we're not at the same company any longer. Um, so a lot of these people transcend careers and transcend, um, um, different positions that I've held as well and make room for us. And I think that's just really critical when we're looking for allies and when allies are looking for us, >>I love how you described allies, mentors and sponsors Stephanie. And the difference. I didn't understand the difference between a mentor and a sponsor until a couple of years ago. Do you talk with some of those younger females on your team so that when they come into the organization and maybe they're fresh outta college, or maybe they've transitioned into tech so that they can also learn from you and understand the importance and the difference between the allies and the sponsors and the mentors? >>Absolutely. And I think that's really interesting because I do take, uh, an extra, uh, approach an extra time to really reach out to the women that have joined the team. One. I wanna make sure they stay right. I don't want them feeling, Hey, I'm alone here and I need to, I need to go do something else. Um, and they are located around the world, on my team. They're also different age groups, so early in career, as well as more senior people and really reaching out, making sure they know that I'm there. But also as Danielle had mentioned, connecting them to other people in the community that they can reach out to for those same opportunities and making room for them >>Make room at the table. It's so important. And it can, you never know what a massive difference and impact you can make on someone's life. And I, and I bet there's probably a lot of mentors and sponsors and allies of mine that would be surprised to know, uh, the massive influence they've had Daniel back over. Let's talk about some of the techniques that you employ, that AWS employees to make the work environment, a great place for women to really thrive and, and be retained as Stephanie was saying. Of course that's so important. >>Yeah. I mean, definitely I think that the community building, as well as we have a bit more programmatic mentorship, um, we're trying to get to the point of having a more programmatic sponsorship as well. Um, but I think just making sure that, um, you know, both everything from, uh, recruit to onboard to ever boarding that, uh, they they're the women who come into the organization, whether it's they're coming in on the software engineering side or the field side or the sales side that they feel as that they have someone, uh, working with them to help them drive their career. Those are the key things that were, I think from an organizational perspective are happening across the board. Um, for me personally, when I run my organization, I'm really trying to make sure that people feel that they can come to me at any time open door policy, make sure that they're surfacing any times in which they are feeling excluded or anything like that, any challenges, whether it be with a customer, a partner or with a colleague. Um, and then also of course, just making sure that I'm being a good sponsor, uh, to, to people on my team. Um, that is key. You can talk about it, but you have to start with yourself as well. >>That's a great point. You you've got to, to start with yourself and really reflect on that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and look, am I, am I embodying what it is that I need? And not that I know they need that focused, thoughtful intention on that is so importants, let's talk about some of the techniques that you use that NetApp uses to make the work environment a great place for those women are marginalized, um, communities to really thrive. >>Yeah. And I appreciate it and much like Danielle, uh, and much like AWS, we have some of those more structured programs, right around sponsorship and around mentorship. Um, probably some growth there, opportunities for allies, because I think that's more of a newer concept in really an informal structure around the allies, but something that we're growing into at NetApp, um, on my team personally, I think, um, leading by example's really key. And unfortunately, a lot of the, um, life stuffs still lands on the women, whether we like it or not. Uh, I have a very, uh, active husband in our household, but I still carry when it push comes to shove it's on me. Um, and I wanna make sure that my team knows it's okay to take some time and do the things you need to do with your family. Um, I'm I show up as myself authentically and I encourage them to do the same. >>So it's okay to say, Hey, I need to take a personal day. I need to focus on some stuff that's happening in my personal life this week now, obviously to make sure your job's covered, but just allowing some of that softer vulnerability to come into the team as well, so that others, um, men and women can feel they can do the same thing. And that it's okay to say, I need to balance my life and I need to do some other things alongside. Um, so it's the formal programs, making sure people have awareness on them. Um, I think it's also softly calling people out on biases and saying, Hey, I'm not sure if you know, this landed that way, but I just wanted to make you aware. And usually the feedback is, oh my gosh, I didn't know. And could you coach me on something that I could do better next time? So all of this is driven through our NetApp formal programs, but then it's also how you manifest it on the teams that we're leading. >>Absolutely. And sometimes having that mirror to reflect into can be really eye-opening and, and allow you to, to see things in a completely different light, which is great. Um, you both talked about, um, kind of being what you, uh, can see, and, and I know both companies are upset customer obsessed in a good way. Talk to me a little bit, Danielle, go back over to you about the AWS NetApp partnership. Um, some of that maybe alignment on, on performance on obviously you guys are very well aligned, uh, in terms of that, but also it sounds like you're quite aligned on diversity and inclusion. >>Well, we definitely do. We have the best partnerships with companies in which we have these value alignments. So I think that is a positive thing, of course, but just from a, from a partnership perspective, you know, from my five now plus years of being a part of the APN, this is, you know, one of the most significant years with our launch of FSX for NetApp. Um, with that, uh, key key service, which we're making available natively on AWS. I, I can't think of a better Testament to the, to the, um, partnership than that. And that's doing incredibly well and it really resonates with our customers. And of course it started with customers and their need for NetApp. Uh, so, you know, that is a reflection, I think, of the success that we're having together. >>And Stephanie talk to, uh, about the partnership from your perspective, NetApp, AWS, what you guys are doing together, cultural alignment, but also your alignment on really bringing diversity into drive performance. >>Yeah, I think it's a, a great question. And I have to say it's just been a phenomenal year. Our relationship has, uh, started before our first party service with FSX N but definitely just, um, uh, the trajectory, um, between the two companies since the announcement about nine months ago has just taken off to a, a new level. Um, we feel like an extended part of the family. We worked together seamlessly. A lot of the people in my team often say we feel like Amazonians. Um, and we're really part of this transformation at NetApp from being that storage hardware company into being an ISV and a cloud company. And we could not do this without the partnership with AWS and without the, uh, first party service of Fs XM that we've recently released. Um, I think that those joint values that Danielle referred to are critical to our success, um, starting with customer obsession and always making sure that we are doing the right thing for the customer. >>We coach our team teams all the time on if you are doing the right thing for the customers, you cannot do anything wrong. Just always put the customer at the, in the center of your decisions. And I think that there is, um, a lot of best practice sharing and collaboration as we go through this change. And I think a lot of it is led by the diverse backgrounds that are on the team, um, female, male, um, race and so forth, and just to really, uh, have different perspectives and different experiences about how we approach this change. Um, so we definitely feel like a part of the family. Uh, we are absolutely loving, uh, working with the AWS team and our team knows that we are the right place, the right time with the right people. >>I love that last question for each of you. And I wanna stick with you Stephanie advice to your younger self, think back five years. What advice would you seen what you've accomplished and maybe the thet route that you've taken along the way, what would you advise your youngest Stephanie self. >>Uh, I would say keep being curious, right? Keep being curious, keep asking questions. And sometimes when you get a no, it's not a bad thing, it just means not right now and find out why and, and try to get feedback as to why maybe that wasn't the right opportunity for you. But, you know, just go for what you want. Continue to be curious, continue to ask questions and find a support network of people around you that wanna help you because they are there and they, they wanna see you be successful too. So never be shy about that stuff. >><laugh> absolutely. And I always say failure does not have to be an, a bad F word. A no can be the beginning of something. Amazing. Danielle, same question for you. Thinking back to when you first started in your career, what advice would you give your younger self? >>Yeah, I think the advice I'd give my younger self would be, don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Um, it's certainly, you know, coming from an engineering background, maybe you wanna stay behind the scenes, not, not do a presentation, not do a public speaking event, those types of things, but back to what the community really needs, this thing. Um, you know, I genuinely now, uh, took me a while to realize it, but I realized I needed to put myself out there in order to, um, you know, allow younger women to see what they could be. So that would be the advice I would give. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. >>Absolutely. That advice that you both gave are, is so fantastic, so important and so applicable to everybody. Um, don't be afraid to put yourself out there, ask questions. Don't be afraid of a, no, that it's all gonna happen at some point or many points along the way. That can also be good. So thank you ladies. You inspired me. I appreciate you sharing what AWS and NetApp are doing together to strengthen diversity, to strengthen performance and the advice that you both shared for your younger selves was brilliant. Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Thank you >>For my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the AWS partner showcase. See you next time. Hey everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase season one, episode three women in tech. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I've got two female rock stars joining me. Next Vero Reynolds is here engineering manager, telemetry at honeycomb, and one of our cube alumni, Danielle Ock ISV PSA director at AWS. Join us as well. Ladies. It's great to have you talking about a very important topic today. >>Thanks for having us. >>Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >>Of course, Vera, let's go ahead and start with you. Tell me about your background and tech. You're coming up on your 10th anniversary. Happy anniversary. >>Thank you. That's right. I can't believe it's been 10 years. Um, but yeah, I started in tech in 2012. Um, I was an engineer for most of that time. Uh, and just recently as a March, switched to engineering management here at honeycomb and, um, you know, throughout my career, I was very much interested in all the things, right. And it was a big FOMO as far as trying a few different, um, companies and products. And I've done things from web development to mobile to platforms. Um, it would be apt to call me a generalist. Um, and in the more recent years I was sort of gravitating more towards developer tool space. And for me that, uh, came in the form of cloud Foundry circle CI and now honeycomb. Um, I actually had my eye on honeycomb for a while before joining, I came across a blog post by charity majors. >>Who's one of our founders and she was actually talking about management and how to pursue that and whether or not it's right, uh, for your career. And so I was like, who is this person? I really like her, uh, found the company. They were pretty small at the time. So I was sort of keeping my eye on them. And then when the time came around for me to look again, I did a little bit more digging, uh, found a lot of talks about the product. And on the one hand they really spoke to me as the solution. They talked about developers owning their coding production and answering questions about what is happening, what are your users seeing? And I felt that pain, I got what they were trying to do. And also on the other hand, every talk I saw at the time was from, uh, an amazing woman <laugh>, which I haven't seen before. Uh, so I came across charity majors again, Christine Y our other founder, and then Liz Jones, who's our principal developer advocate. And that really sealed the deal for me as far as wanting to work here. >>Yeah. Honeycomb is interesting. This is a female founded company. You're two leaders. You mentioned that you like the technology, but you were also attracted because you saw females in the leadership position. Talk to me a little bit about what that's like working for a female led organization at honeycomb. >>Yeah. You know, historically, um, we have tried not to over index on that because there was this, uh, maybe fear awareness of, um, it taking away from our legitimacy as an engineering organization, from our success as a company. Um, but I'm seeing that, uh, rhetoric shift recently because we believe that with great responsibility, uh, with great power comes great responsibility, and we're trying to be more intentional as far as using that attribute of our company. Um, so I would say that for me, it was, um, a choice between a few offers, right. And that was a selling point for sure, because again, I've never experienced it and I've really seen how much they walk that walk. Um, even me being here and me moving into management, I think were both, um, ways in which they really put a lot of trust and support in me. And so, um, I it's been a great ride. >>Excellent. Sounds like it. Before we bring Danielle in to talk about the partnership. I do wanna have you there talk to the audience a little bit about honeycomb, what technology it's delivering and what are its differentiators. >>Yeah, absolutely. Um, so honeycomb is an observability tool, uh, that enables engineers to answer questions about the code that runs in production. And, um, we work with a number of various customers. Some of them are Vanguards, slack. Hello, fresh, just to name a couple, if you're not familiar with observability tooling, it's akin to traditional application performance monitoring, but we believe that observability is succeeding APM because, uh, APM tools were built at the time of monoliths and they just weren't designed to help us answer questions about complex distributed systems that we work with today, where things can go wrong anywhere in that chain. And you can't predict what you're gonna need to ask ahead of time. So some of the ways that we are different is our ability to store and query really rich data, which we believe is the key to understanding those complex systems. >>What I mean by rich data is, um, something that has a lot of attributes. So for example, when an error happens, knowing who it happened to, which user ID, which, um, I don't know, region, they were in, um, what, what, what they were doing at the time and what was happening at the rest of your system. And our ingest engine is really fast. You can do it in as little as three seconds and we call data like this. I said, kind of rich data, contextual data. We refer it as having high ality and high dimensionality, which are big words. But at the end of the day, what that means is we can store and we can query the data. We can do it really fast. And to give you an example of how that looks for our customers, let's say you have a developer team who are using comb to understand and observe their system. >>And they get a report that a user is experiencing a slowdown or something's wrong. They can go into comb and figure out that this only happens to users who are using a particular language pack with their app. And they operated their app last week, that it only happens when they are trying to upload a file. And so it's this level of granularity and being able to zoom in and out, um, under your data that allows you to understand what's happening, especially when you have an incident going on, right. Or your really important high profile customer is telling you that something's wrong. And we can do that. Even if everything else in your other tools looks fine, right? All of your dashboards are okay. You're not actually getting paged on it, but your customers are telling you that something's wrong. Uh, and we believe that's where we shine in helping you there. >>Excellent. It sounds like that's where you really shine that real time visibility is so critical these days. Danielle, Danielle, wanna bring you into the conversation. Talk to us a little bit about the honeycomb partnership from the AWS lens. >>Yeah. So excuse me, observability is obviously a very important, uh, segment in the cloud space, very important to AWS, um, because a lot of all of our customers, uh, as they build their systems distributed, they need to be able to see where, where things are happening in the complex systems that they're building. And so honeycomb is a, is an advanced technology partner. Um, they've been working with us for quite some time and they have a, uh, their solution is listed on the marketplace. Um, definitely something that we see a lot of demand with our customers and they have many integrations, uh, which, you know, we've seen is key to success. Um, being able to work seamlessly with the rest of the services inside of the AWS platform. And I know that they've done some, some great things with people who are trying to develop games on top of AWS, uh, things in that area as well. And so, uh, very important partner in the observa observability market that we have >>Back to you, let's kind of unpack the partnership, the significance that honeycomb ha is getting from being partners with an organization as potent and pivotal as AWS. >>Yeah, absolutely. Um, I know this predates me to some extent, but I know for a long time, AWS and honeycomb has really pushed the envelope together. And, um, I think it's a beneficial relationship for both ends. There's kind of two ways of looking at it. On the one side, there is our own infrastructure. So honeycomb runs on AWS and actually one of our critical workloads that supports that fast query engine that I mentioned uses Lambda. And it does so in a pretty Orthodox way. So we've had a longstanding conversation with the AWS team as far as drawing outside those lines and kind of figuring out how to use this technology in a way that works for us and hopefully will work for other customers of theirs as well. Um, that also allows us to ask for early access for certain features when they become available. >>And then that way we can be sort of the Guinea pigs and try things out, um, in a way that migrates our system and optimizes our own performance, but also allows again, other customers of AWS to follow in that path. And then the other side of that partnership is really supporting our customers who are both honeycomb users and AWS users, because it's, as you imagine, quite a big overlap, and there are certain ways in which we can allow our customers to more easily get their data from AWS to honeycomb. So for example, last year we built a tool, um, based on the new Lambda extension capability that allowed our users who run their applications in Lambdas to get that telemetry data out of their applications and into honeycomb. And it man was win, win. >>Excellent. So I'm hearing a lot of synergies from a technology perspective, you're sticking with you, and then Danielle will bring you in, let's talk about how honeycomb supports D and I across its organization. And how is that synergistic with AWS's approach? Yeah, >>Yeah, absolutely. So I sort of alluded to that hesitancy to over index on the women led aspect of ourselves. Um, but again, a lot of things are shifting, we're growing a lot. And so we are recognizing that we need to be more intentional with our DEI initiatives, and we also notice that we can do better and we should do better. And to that, and we're doing a few things differently, um, that are pretty recent initiatives. We are partnering with organizations that help us target specific communities that are underrepresented in tech. Um, some examples would be after tech hu Latinas in tech among, um, a number of others. And another initiative is DEI head start. That's something that is an internal, um, practice that we started that includes reaching out to underrepresented applicants before any new job for honeycomb becomes live. So before we posted to LinkedIn, before it's even live on our job speech, and the idea there is to kind of balance our pipeline of applicants, which the hope is will lead to more diverse hires in the long term. >>That's a great focus there. Danielle, I know we've talked about this before, but for the audience, in terms of the context of the honeycomb partnership, the focus at AWS for D E and I is really significant, unpack that a little bit for us. >>Well, let me just bring it back to just how we think about it, um, with the companies that we work with, but also in, in terms of, you know, what we want to be able to do, excuse me, it's very important for us to, you know, build products that reflect, uh, the customers that we have. And I think, you know, working with, uh, a company like honeycomb that is looking to differentiate in a space, um, by, by bringing in, you know, the experiences of many different types of people I genuinely believe. And I'm sure Vera also believes that by having those diverse perspectives, that we're able to then build better products for our customers. Um, and you know, it's one of, one of our leadership principles, uh, is, is rooted in this. I write a lot, it asks for us to seek out diverse perspectives. Uh, and you can't really do that if everybody kind of looks the same and thinks the same and has the same background. So I think that is where our de and I, um, you know, I thought process is rooted and, you know, companies like honeycomb that give customers choice and differentiate and help them, um, to do what they need to do in their unique, um, environments is super important. So >>The, the importance of thought diversity cannot be underscored enough. It's something that is, can be pivotal to organizations. And it's very nice to hear that that's so fundamental to both companies, Barry, I wanna go back to you for a second. You, I think you mentioned this, the DEI head start program, that's an internal program at honeycomb. Can you shed a little bit of light on that? >>Yeah, that's right. And I actually am in the process of hiring a first engineer for my team. So I'm learning a lot of these things firsthand, um, and how it works is we try to make sure to pre-load our pipeline of applicants for any new job opening we have with diverse candidates to the best of our abilities, and that can involve partnering with the organizations that I mentioned or reaching out to our internal network, um, and make sure that we give those applicants a head start, so to speak. >>Excellent. I like that. Danielle, before we close, I wanna get a little bit of, of your background. We've got various background in tag, she's celebrating her 10th anniversary. Give me a, a short kind of description of the journey that you've navigated through being a female in technology. >>Yeah, thanks so much. I really appreciate, uh, being able to share this. So I started as a software engineer, uh, back actually in the late nineties, uh, during the, the first.com bubble and, uh, have, have spent quite a long time actually as an individual contributor, um, probably working in software engineering teams up through 2014 at a minimum until I joined AWS, uh, as a customer facing solutions architect. Um, I do think spending a lot of time, hands on definitely helped me with some of the imposter syndrome, um, issues that folks suffer from not to say I don't at all, but it, it certainly helped with that. And I've been leading teams at AWS since 2015. Um, so it's really been a great ride. Um, and like I said, I'm very happy to see all of our engineering teams change, uh, as far as their composition. And I'm, I'm grateful to be part of it. >>It's pretty great to be able to witness that composition change for the better last question for each of you. And we're almost out of time and Danielle, I'm gonna stick with you. What's your advice, your recommendations for women who either are thinking about getting into tech or those who may be in tech, maybe they're in individual positions and they're not sure if they should apply for that senior leadership position. What do you advise them to do? >>I mean, definitely for the individual contributors, tech tech is a great career, uh, direction, um, and you will always be able to find women like you, you have to maybe just work a little bit harder, uh, to join, have community, uh, in that. But then as a leader, um, representation is very important and we can bring more women into tech by having more leaders. So that's my, you just have to take the lead, >>Take the lead, love that there. Same question for you. What's your advice and recommendations for those maybe future female leaders in tech? >>Yeah, absolutely. Um, Danielle mentioned imposter syndrome and I think we all struggle with it from time to time, no matter how many years it's been. And I think for me, for me, the advice would be if you're starting out, don't be afraid to ask, uh, questions and don't be afraid to kind of show a little bit of ignorance because we've all been there. And I think it's on all of us to remember what it's like to not know how things work. And on the flip side of that, if you are a more senior IC or, uh, in a leadership role, also being able to model just saying, I don't know how this works and going and figuring out answers together because that was a really powerful shift for me early in my career is just to feel like I can say that I don't know something. >>I totally agree. I've been in that same situation where just ask the question because you I'm guaranteed, there's a million outta people in the room that probably has the, have the same question and because of imposter syndrome, don't wanna admit, I don't understand that. Can we back up, but I agree with you. I think that is, um, one of the best things. Raise your hand, ask a question, ladies. Thank you so much for joining me talking about honeycomb and AWS, what you're doing together from a technology perspective and the focus efforts that each company has on D E and I, we appreciate your insights. Thank you so much for having us great talking to you. My pleasure, likewise for my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the AWS partner showcase women in check. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase I'm Lisa Martin, your host. This is season one, episode three, and this is a great episode that focuses on women in tech. I'm pleased to be joined by Danielle Shaw, the ISV PSA director at AWS, and the sponsor of this fantastic program. Danielle, it's great to see you and talk about such an important topic. >>Yes. And I will tell you, all of these interviews have just been a blast for me to do. And I feel like there has been a lot of gold that we can glean from all of the, um, stories that we heard on these interviews and good advice that I myself would not have necessarily thought of. So >>I agree. And we're gonna get to set, cuz advice is one of the, the main things that our audience is gonna hear. We have Hillary Ashton, you'll see from TETA there, Reynolds joins us from honeycomb, Stephanie Curry from NetApp and Sue Paris from Jefferson Frank. And the topics that we dig into are first and foremost, diversity equity and inclusion. That is a topic that is incredibly important to every organization. And some of the things Danielle that our audiences shared were really interesting to me. One of the things that I saw from a thematic perspective over and over was that like D Reynolds was talking about the importance of companies and hiring managers and how they need to be intentional with de and I initiatives. And that intention was a, a, a common thing that we heard. I'm curious what your thoughts are about that, that we heard about being intentional working intentionally to deliver a more holistic pool of candidates where de I is concerned. What are your, what were some of the things that stuck out to you? >>Absolutely. I think each one of us is working inside of organizations where in the last, you know, five to 10 years, there's been a, you know, a strong push in this direction, mostly because we've really seen, um, first and foremost, by being intentional, that you can change the, uh, the way your organization looks. Um, but also just that, you know, without being intentional, um, there was just a lot of, you know, outcomes and situations that maybe weren't great for, um, you know, a healthy, um, and productive environment, uh, working environment. And so, you know, a lot of these companies have made a big investments and put forth big initiatives that I think all of us are involved in. And so we're really excited to get out here and talk about it and talk about, especially as these are all partnerships that we have, how, you know, these align with our values. So >>Yeah, that, that value alignment mm-hmm <affirmative> that you bring up is another thing that we heard consistently with each of the partners, there's a cultural alignment, there's a customer obsession alignment that they have with AWS. There's a D E and I alignment that they have. And I, I think everybody also kind of agreed Stephanie Curry talked about, you know, it's really important, um, for diversity on it, on, on impacting performance, highly performant teams are teams that are more diverse. I think we heard that kind of echoed throughout the women that we talked to in >>This. Absolutely. And I absolutely, and I definitely even feel that, uh, with their studies out there that tell you that you make better products, if you have all of the right input and you're getting all many different perspectives, but not just that, but I can, I can personally see it in the performing teams, not just my team, but also, you know, the teams that I work alongside. Um, arguably some of the other business folks have done a really great job of bringing more women into their organization, bringing more underrepresented minorities. Tech is a little bit behind, but we're trying really hard to bring that forward as well to in technical roles. Um, but you can just see the difference in the outcomes. Uh, at least I personally can just in the adjacent teams of mine. >>That's awesome. We talked also quite a bit during this episode about attracting women and underrepresented, um, groups and retaining them. That retention piece is really key. What were some of the things that stuck out to you that, um, you know, some of the guests talked about in terms of retention? >>Yeah. I think especially, uh, speaking with Hillary and hearing how, uh, Teradata is thinking about different ways to make hybrid work work for everybody. I think that is definitely when I talk to women interested in joining AWS, oftentimes that might be one of the first, uh, concerns that they have. Like, am I going to be able to, you know, go pick my kid up at four o'clock at the bus, or am I going to be able to, you know, be at my kids' conf you know, conference or even just, you know, have enough work life balance that I can, um, you know, do the things that I wanna do outside of work, uh, beyond children and family. So these are all very important, um, and questions that especially women come and ask, but also, um, you know, it kind of is a, is a bellwether for, is this gonna be a company that allows me to bring my whole self to work? And then I'm also gonna be able to have that balance that I need need. So I think that was something that is, uh, changing a lot. And many people are thinking about work a lot differently. >>Absolutely. The pandemic not only changed how we think about work, you know, initially it was, do I work from home or do I live at work? And that was legitimately a challenge that all of us faced for a long time period, but we're seeing the hybrid model. We're seeing more companies be open to embracing that and allowing people to have more of that balance, which at the end of the day, it's so much better for product development for the customers, as you talked about there's, it's a win-win. >>Absolutely. And, you know, definitely the first few months of it was very hard to find that separation to be able to put up boundaries. Um, but I think at least I personally have been able to find the way to do it. And I hope that, you know, everyone is getting that space to be able to put those boundaries up to effectively have a harmonious, you know, work life where you can still be at home most of the time, but also, um, you know, have that cutoff point of the day or at least have that separate space that you can feel that you're able to separate the two. >>Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of that from a work life balance perspective leads into one of the next topics that we covered in detail with, and that's mentors and sponsors the differences between them recommendations from, uh, the women on the panel about how to combat imposter syndrome, but also how to leverage mentors and sponsors throughout your career. One of the things that, that Hillary said that I thought was fantastic, advice were mentors and sponsors are concerned is, is be selective in picking your bosses. We often see people, especially younger folks, not necessarily younger folks. I shouldn't say that that are attracted to a company it's brand maybe, and think more about that than they do the boss or bosses that can help guide them along the way. But I thought that was really poignant advice that Hillary provided something that I'm gonna take into consideration myself. >>Yeah. And I honestly hadn't thought about that, but as I reflect through my own career, I can see how I've had particular managers who have had a major impact on helping me, um, with my career. But, you know, if you don't have the ability to do that, or maybe that's not a luxury that you have, I think even if you're able to, you know, find a mentor for a period of time or, um, you know, just, just enable for you to be able to get from say a point a to point B just for a temporary period. Um, just so you can grow into your next role, have a, have a particular outcome that you wanna drive, have a particular goal in mind find that person who's been there and done that and can really help you get through. If you don't have the luxury of picking your manager mentor, who can help you get to the next step. >>Exactly. That, that I thought that advice was brilliant and something that I hadn't really considered either. We also talked with several of the women about imposter syndrome. You know, that's something that everybody, I think, regardless of gender of your background, everybody feels that at some point. So I think one of the nice things that we do in this episode is sort of identify, yes, imposter syndrome is real. This is, this is how it happened to me. This is I navigated around or got over it. I think there's some great advice there for the audience to glean as well about how to dial down the imposter syndrome that they might be feeling. >>Absolutely. And I think the key there is just acknowledging it. Um, but also just hearing all the different techniques on, on how folks have dealt with it because everybody does, um, you know, even some of the smartest, most confident men I've, I've met in, uh, industry still talk to me about how they have it and I'm shocked by it oftentimes, but, um, it is very common and hopefully we, we talk about some good techniques to, to deal with that. >>I think we do, you know, one of the things that when we were asking the, our audience, our guests about advice, what would they tell their younger selves? What would they tell young women or underrepresented groups in terms of becoming interested in stem and in tech and everybody sort of agreed on me, don't be afraid to raise your hand and ask questions. Um, show vulnerabilities, not just as the employee, but even from a leadership perspective, show that as a leader, I, I don't have all the answers. There are questions that I have. I think that goes a long way to reducing the imposter syndrome that most of us have faced at some point in our lives. And that's just, don't be afraid to ask questions. You never know, oh, how can people have the same question sitting in the room? >>Well, and also, you know, for folks who've been in industry for 20, 25 years, I think we can just say that, you know, it's a, it's a marathon, it's not a sprint and you're always going to, um, have new things to learn and you can spend, you know, back to, we talked about the zing and zagging through careers, um, where, you know, we'll have different experiences. Um, all of that kind of comes through just, you know, being curious and wanting to continue to learn. So yes, asking questions and being vulnerable and being able to say, I don't know all the answers, but I wanna learn is a key thing, uh, especially culturally at AWS, but I'm sure with all of these companies as well, >>Definitely I think it sounded like it was really ingrained in their culture. And another thing too, that we also talked about is the word, no, doesn't always mean a dead end. It can often mean not right now or may, maybe this isn't the right opportunity at this time. I think that's another important thing that the audience is gonna learn is that, you know, failure is not necessarily a bad F word. If you turn it into opportunity, no isn't necessarily the end of the road. It can be an opener to a different door. And I, I thought that was a really positive message that our guests, um, had to share with the, the audience. >>Yeah, totally. I can, I can say I had a, a mentor of mine, um, a very, uh, strong woman who told me, you know, your career is going to have lots of ebbs and flows and that's natural. And you know that when you say that, not right now, um, that's a perfect example of maybe there's an ebb where it might not be the right time for you now, but something to consider in the future. But also don't be afraid to say yes, when you can. <laugh> >>Exactly. Danielle, it's been a pleasure filming this episode with you and the great female leaders that we have on. I'm excited for the audience to be able to learn from Hillary Vera, Stephanie Sue, and you so much valuable content in here. We hope you enjoy this partner showcase season one, episode three, Danielle, thanks so much for helping >>Us with it's been a blast. I really appreciate it >>All audience. We wanna enjoy this. Enjoy the episode.

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave ante. >>When Frank sluman took service, now public many people undervalued the company, positioning it as just a better help desk tool. You know, it turns out that the firm actually had a massive Tam expansion opportunity in it. SM customer service, HR, logistics, security marketing, and service management. Generally now stock price followed over the years, the stellar execution under Slootman and CFO, Mike scar Kelly's leadership. Now, when they took the reins at snowflake expectations were already set that they'd repeat the feet, but this time, if anything, the company was overvalued out of the gate, the thing is people didn't really better understand the market opportunity this time around, other than that, it was a bet on Salman's track record of execution and on data, pretty good bets, but folks really didn't appreciate that snowflake. Wasn't just a better data warehouse that it was building what they call a data cloud, and we've turned a data super cloud. >>Hello and welcome to this. Week's Wikibon cube insights powered by ETR in this breaking analysis, we'll do four things. First. We're gonna review the recent narrative and concerns about snowflake and its value. Second, we're gonna share survey data from ETR that will confirm precisely what the company's CFO has been telling anyone who will listen. And third, we're gonna share our view of what snowflake is building IE, trying to become the defacto standard data platform, and four convey our expectations for the upcoming snowflake summit. Next week at Caesar's palace in Las Vegas, Snowflake's most recent quarterly results they've been well covered and well documented. It basically hit its targets, which for snowflake investors was bad news wall street piled on expressing concerns about Snowflake's consumption, pricing model, slowing growth rates, lack of profitability and valuation. Given the, given the current macro market conditions, the stock dropped below its IPO offering price, which you couldn't touch on day one, by the way, as the stock opened well above that and, and certainly closed well above that price of one 20 and folks express concerns about some pretty massive insider selling throughout 2021 and early 2022, all this caused the stock price to drop quite substantially. >>And today it's down around 63% or more year to date, but the only real substantive change in the company's business is that some of its largest consumer facing companies, while still growing dialed back, their consumption this past quarter, the tone of the call was I wouldn't say contentious the earnings call, but Scarelli, I think was getting somewhat annoyed with the implication from some analyst questions that something is fundamentally wrong with Snowflake's business. So let's unpack this a bit first. I wanna talk about the consumption pricing on the earnings call. One of the analysts asked if snowflake would consider more of a subscription based model so that they could better weather such fluctuations and demand before the analyst could even finish the question, CFO Scarelli emphatically interrupted and said, no, <laugh> the analyst might as well have asked, Hey Mike, have you ever considered changing your pricing model and screwing your customers the same way most legacy SaaS companies lock their customers in? >>So you could squeeze more revenue out of them and make my forecasting life a little bit easier. <laugh> consumption pricing is one of the things that makes a company like snowflake so attractive because customers is especially large customers facing fluctuating demand can dial and their end demand can dial down usage for certain workloads that are maybe not yet revenue producing or critical. Now let's jump to insider trading. There were a lot of insider selling going on last year and into 2022 now, I mean a lot sloop and Scarelli Christine Kleinman. Mike SP several board members. They sold stock worth, you know, many, many hundreds of millions of dollars or, or more at prices in the two hundreds and three hundreds and even four hundreds. You remember the company at one point was valued at a hundred billion dollars, surpassing the value of service now, which is this stupid at this point in the company's tenure and the insider's cost basis was very often in the single digit. >>So on the one hand, I can't blame them. You know what a gift the market gave them last year. Now also famed investor, Peter Linsey famously said, insiders sell for many reasons, but they only buy for one. But I have to say there wasn't a lot of insider buying of the stock when it was in the three hundreds and above. And so yeah, this pattern is something to watch our insiders buying. Now, I'm not sure we'll keep watching snowflake. It's pretty generous with stock based compensation and insiders still own plenty of stock. So, you know, maybe not, but we'll see in future disclosures, but the bottom line is Snowflake's business. Hasn't dramatically changed with the exception of these large consumer facing companies. Now, another analyst pointed out that companies like snap, he pointed to company snap, Peloton, Netflix, and face Facebook have been cutting back. >>And Scarelli said, and what was a bit of a surprise to me? Well, I'm not gonna name the customers, but it's not the ones you mentioned. So I, I thought I would've, you know, if I were the analyst I would've follow up with, how about Walmart target visa, Amex, Expedia price line, or Uber? Any of those Mike? I, I doubt he would've answered me anything. Anyway, the one thing that Scarelli did do is update Snowflake's fiscal year 2029 outlook to emphasize the long term opportunity that the company sees. This chart shows a financial snapshot of Snowflake's current business using a combination of quarterly and full year numbers in a model of what the business will look like. According to Scarelli in Dave ante with a little bit of judgment in 2029. So this is essentially based on the company's framework. Snowflake this year will surpass 2 billion in revenues and targeting 10 billion by 2029. >>Its current growth rate is 84% and its target is 30% in the out years, which is pretty impressive. Gross margins are gonna tick up a bit, but remember Snowflake's cost a good sold they're dominated by its cloud cost. So it's got a governor. There has to pay AWS Azure and Google for its infrastructure. But high seventies is a, is a good target. It's not like the historical Microsoft, you know, 80, 90% gross margin. Not that Microsoft is there anymore, but, but snowflake, you know, was gonna be limited by how far it can, how much it can push gross margin because of that factor. It's got a tiny operating margin today and it's targeting 20% in 2029. So that would be 2 billion. And you would certainly expect it's operating leverage in the out years to enable much, much, much lower SGNA than the current 54%. I'm guessing R and D's gonna stay healthy, you know, coming in at 15% or so. >>But the real interesting number to watch is free cash flow, 16% this year for the full fiscal year growing to 25% by 2029. So 2.5 billion in free cash flow in the out years, which I believe is up from previous Scarelli forecast in that 10, you know, out year view 2029 view and expect the net revenue retention, the NRR, it's gonna moderate. It's gonna come down, but it's still gonna be well over a hundred percent. We pegged it at 130% based on some of Mike's guidance. Now today, snowflake and every other stock is well off this morning. The company had a 40 billion value would drop well below that midday, but let's stick with the 40 billion on this, this sad Friday on the stock market, we'll go to 40 billion and who knows what the stock is gonna be valued in 2029? No idea, but let's say between 40 and 200 billion and look, it could get even ugly in the market as interest rates rise. >>And if inflation stays high, you know, until we get a Paul Voker like action, which is gonna be painful from the fed share, you know, let's hope we don't have a repeat of the long drawn out 1970s stagflation, but that is a concern among investors. We're gonna try to keep it positive here and we'll do a little sensitivity analysis of snowflake based on Scarelli and Ante's 2029 projections. What we've done here is we've calculated in this chart. Today's current valuation at about 40 billion and run a CAGR through 2029 with our estimates of valuation at that time. So if it stays at 40 billion valuation, can you imagine snowflake grow into a 10 billion company with no increase in valuation by the end, by by 2029 fiscal 2029, that would be a major bummer and investors would get a, a 0% return at 50 billion, 4% Kager 60 billion, 7%. >>Kegar now 7% market return is historically not bad relative to say the S and P 500, but with that kind of revenue and profitability growth projected by snowflake combined with inflation, that would again be a, a kind of a buzzkill for investors. The picture at 75 billion valuation, isn't much brighter, but it picks up at, at a hundred billion, even with inflation that should outperform the market. And as you get to 200 billion, which would track by the way, revenue growth, you get a 30% plus return, which would be pretty good. Could snowflake beat these projections. Absolutely. Could the market perform at the optimistic end of the spectrum? Sure. It could. It could outperform these levels. Could it not perform at these levels? You bet, but hopefully this gives a little context and framework to what Scarelli was talking about and his framework, not with notwithstanding the market's unpredictability you're you're on your own. >>There. I can't help snowflake looks like it's going to continue either way in amazing run compared to other software companies historically, and whether that's reflected in the stock price. Again, I, I, I can't predict, okay. Let's look at some ETR survey data, which aligns really well with what snowflake is telling the street. This chart shows the breakdown of Snowflake's net score and net score. Remember is ETS proprietary methodology that measures the percent of customers in their survey that are adding the platform new. That's the lime green at 19% existing snowflake customers that are ex spending 6% or more on the platform relative to last year. That's the forest green that's 55%. That's a big number flat spend. That's the gray at 21% decreasing spending. That's the pinkish at 5% and churning that's the red only 1% or, or moving off the platform, tiny, tiny churn, subtract the red from the greens and you get a net score that, that, that nets out to 68%. >>That's an, a very impressive net score by ETR standards. But it's down from the highs of the seventies and mid eighties, where high seventies and mid eighties, where snowflake has been since January of 2019 note that this survey of 1500 or so organizations includes 155 snowflake customers. What was really interesting is when we cut the data by industry sector, two of Snowflake's most important verticals, our finance and healthcare, both of those sectors are holding a net score in the ETR survey at its historic range. 83%. Hasn't really moved off that, you know, 80% plus number really encouraging, but retail consumer showed a dramatic decline. This past survey from 73% in the previous quarter down to 54%, 54% in just three months time. So this data aligns almost perfectly with what CFO Scarelli has been telling the street. So I give a lot of credibility to that narrative. >>Now here's a time series chart for the net score and the provision in the data set, meaning how penetrated snowflake is in the survey. Again, net score measures, spending velocity and a specific platform and provision measures the presence in the data set. You can see the steep downward trend in net score this past quarter. Now for context note, the red dotted line on the vertical axis at 40%, that's a bit of a magic number. Anything above that is best in class in our view, snowflake still a well, well above that line, but the April survey as we reported on May 7th in quite a bit of detail shows a meaningful break in the snowflake trend as shown by ETRS call out on the bottom line. You can see a steady rise in the survey, which is a proxy for Snowflake's overall market penetration. So steadily moving up and up. >>Here's a bit of a different view on that data bringing in some of Snowflake's peers and other data platforms. This XY graph shows net score on the vertical axis and provision on the horizontal with the red dotted line. At 40%, you can see from the ETR callouts again, that snowflake while declining in net score still holds the highest net score in the survey. So of course the highest data platforms while the spending velocity on AWS and Microsoft, uh, data platforms, outperforms that have, uh, sorry, while they're spending velocity on snowflake outperforms, that of AWS and, and Microsoft data platforms, those two are still well above the 40% line with a stronger market presence in the category. That's impressive because of their size. And you can see Google cloud and Mongo DB right around the 40% line. Now we reported on Mongo last week and discussed the commentary on consumption models. >>And we referenced Ray Lenchos what we thought was, was quite thoughtful research, uh, that rewarded Mongo DB for its forecasting transparency and, and accuracy and, and less likelihood of facing consumption headwinds. And, and I'll reiterate what I said last week, that snowflake, while seeing demand fluctuations this past quarter from those large customers is, is not like a data lake where you're just gonna shove data in and figure it out later, no schema on, right. Just throw it into the pond. That's gonna be more discretionary and you can turn that stuff off. More likely. Now you, you bring data into the snowflake data cloud with the intent of driving insights, which leads to actions, which leads to value creation. And as snowflake adds capabilities and expands its platform features and innovations and its ecosystem more and more data products are gonna be developed in the snowflake data cloud and by data products. >>We mean products and services that are conceived by business users. And that can be directly monetized, not just via analytics, but through governed data sharing and direct monetization. Here's a picture of that opportunity as we see it, this is our spin on our snowflake total available market chart that we've published many, many times. The key point here goes back to our opening statements. The snowflake data cloud is evolving well beyond just being a simpler and easier to use and more elastic cloud database snowflake is building what we often refer to as a super cloud. That is an abstraction layer that companies that, that comprises rich features and leverages the underlying primitives and APIs of the cloud providers, but hides all that complexity and adds new value beyond that infrastructure that value is seen in the left example in terms of compressed cycle time, snowflake often uses the example of pharmaceutical companies compressing time to discover a drug by years. >>Great example, there are many others this, and, and then through organic development and ecosystem expansion, snowflake will accelerate feature delivery. Snowflake's data cloud vision is not about vertically integrating all the functionality into its platform. Rather it's about creating a platform and delivering secure governed and facile and powerful analytics and data sharing capabilities to its customers, partners in a broad ecosystem so they can create additional value. On top of that ecosystem is how snowflake fills the gaps in its platform by building the best cloud data platform in the world, in terms of collaboration, security, governance, developer, friendliness, machine intelligence, etcetera, snowflake believes and plans to create a defacto standard. In our view in data platforms, get your data into the data cloud and all these native capabilities will be available to you. Now, is that a walled garden? Some might say it is. It's an interesting question and <laugh>, it's a moving target. >>It's definitely proprietary in the sense that snowflake is building something that is highly differentiatable and is building a moat around it. But the more open snowflake can make its platform. The more open source it uses, the more developer friendly and the great greater likelihood people will gravitate toward snowflake. Now, my new friend Tani, she's the creator of the data mesh concept. She might bristle at this narrative in favor, a more open source version of what snowflake is trying to build, but practically speaking, I think she'd recognize that we're a long ways off from that. And I also think that the benefits of a platform that despite requiring data to be inside of the data cloud can distribute data globally, enable facile governed, and computational data sharing, and to a large degree be a self-service platform for data, product builders. So this is how we see snow, the snowflake data cloud vision evolving question is edge part of that vision on the right hand side. >>Well, again, we think that is going to be a future challenge where the ecosystem is gonna have to come to play to fill those gaps. If snowflake can tap the edge, it'll bring even more clarity as to how it can expand into what we believe is a massive 200 billion Tam. Okay, let's close on next. Week's snowflake summit in Las Vegas. The cube is very excited to be there. I'll be hosting with Lisa Martin and we'll have Frank son as well as Christian Kleinman and several other snowflake experts. Analysts are gonna be there, uh, customers. And we're gonna have a number of ecosystem partners on as well. Here's what we'll be looking for. At least some of the things, evidence that our view of Snowflake's data cloud is actually taking shape and evolving in the way that we showed on the previous chart, where we also wanna figure out where snowflake is with it. >>Streamlet acquisition. Remember streamlet is a data science play and an expansion into data, bricks, territory, data, bricks, and snowflake have been going at it for a while. Streamlet brings an open source Python library and machine learning and kind of developer friendly data science environment. We also expect to hear some discussion, hopefully a lot of discussion about developers. Snowflake has a dedicated developer conference in November. So we expect to hear more about that and how it's gonna be leveraging further leveraging snow park, which it has previously announced, including a public preview of programming for unstructured data and data monetization along the lines of what we suggested earlier that is building data products that have the bells and whistles of native snowflake and can be directly monetized by Snowflake's customers. Snowflake's already announced a new workload this past week in security, and we'll be watching for others. >>And finally, what's happening in the all important ecosystem. One of the things we noted when we covered service now, cause we use service now as, as an example because Frank Lupin and Mike Scarelli and others, you know, DNA were there and they're improving on that service. Now in his post IPO, early adult years had a very slow pace. In our view was often one of our criticism of ecosystem development, you know, ServiceNow. They had some niche SI uh, like cloud Sherpa, and eventually the big guys came in and, and, and began to really lean in. And you had some other innovators kind of circling the mothership, some smaller companies, but generally we see sluman emphasizing the ecosystem growth much, much more than with this previous company. And that is a fundamental requirement in our view of any cloud or modern cloud company now to paraphrase the crazy man, Steve bomber developers, developers, developers, cause he screamed it and ranted and ran around the stage and was sweating <laugh> ecosystem ecosystem ecosystem equals optionality for developers and that's what they want. >>And that's how we see the current and future state of snowflake. Thanks today. If you're in Vegas next week, please stop by and say hello with the cube. Thanks to my colleagues, Stephanie Chan, who sometimes helps research breaking analysis topics. Alex, my is, and OS Myerson is on production. And today Andrew Frick, Sarah hiney, Steven Conti Anderson hill Chuck all and the entire team in Palo Alto, including Christian. Sorry, didn't mean to forget you Christian writer, of course, Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight, they helped get the word out. And Rob ho is our E IIC over at Silicon angle. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcast, wherever you listen to search breaking analysis podcast, I publish each week on wikibon.com and Silicon angle.com. You can email me directly anytime David dot Valante Silicon angle.com. If you got something interesting, I'll respond. If not, I won't or DM me@deteorcommentonmylinkedinpostsandpleasedocheckoutetr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for the insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next week. I hope if not, we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>Hey everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase season one, episode three women in tech. I'm your host. Lisa Martin. I've got two female rock stars joining me. Next Vera Reynolds is here engineering manager, telemetry at honeycomb, and one of our Cub alumni, Danielle GShock ISV PSA director at AWS joins us as well. Ladies. It's great to have you talking about a very important topic today. >>Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >>Of course, Vera, let's go ahead and start with you. Tell me about your background and tech. You're coming up on your 10th anniversary. Happy anniversary. >>Thank you. That's right. I can't believe it's been 10 years, but yeah, I started in tech in 2012. I was an engineer for most of that time. And just recently, as of March switched to engineering management here at honeycomb and, you know, throughout my career, I was very much interested in all the things, right. And it was a big FOMO as far as trying a few different companies and products, and I've done things from web development to mobile, to platforms. It would be apt to call me a generalist. And in the more recent years, I was sort of gravitating more towards developer tool space. And for me, that came in the form of cloud Foundry circle CI, and now honeycomb. I actually had my eye on honeycomb for a while before joining, I came across a blog post by charity majors. Who's one of our founders and she was actually talking about management and how to pursue that and whether or not it's right for your career. >>And so I was like, who is this person? I really like her found the company. They were pretty small at the time. So I was sort of keeping my eye on them. And then when the time came around for me to look again, I did a little bit more digging, found a lot of talks about the product. And on the one hand, they really spoke to me as the solution. They talked about developers owning their coding in production and answering questions about what is happening, what are your users seeing? And I felt that pain, I got what they were trying to do. And also on the other hand, every talk I saw at the time was from an amazing woman, which I haven't seen before. So I came across charity majors again, Christine Young, who's our other founder. And then Liz Frank Jones, who's our, our principal developer advocate. And that really sealed the deal for me as far as wanting to work here. >>Yeah. Honeycomb is interesting. This is a female founded company. You two leaders, you mentioned that you liked the technology, but you were also attracted because you saw females and the leadership position. Talk to me a little bit about what that's like working for a female led organization at honeycomb. >>Yeah. You know, historically we have tried not to over index on that because there was this maybe fear or rareness of it taking away from our legitimacy as an engineering organization, from our success as a company. But I'm seeing that rhetoric shift recently because we believe that with great responsibility with great power comes great responsibility. And we're trying to be more intentional as far as using that attribute of our company. So I would say that for me, it was a choice between a few offers, right. And that was a selling point, for sure, because again, I've never experienced it and I've really seen how much they walk that walk. Even me being here and me moving into management, I think were both ways in which they really put a lot of trust and support in me. And so I it's been a great ride. >>Excellent. Sounds like it. Before we bring Danielle in to talk about the partnership. I do wanna have you here, talk to the audience a little bit about honeycomb, what technology it's delivering and what are its differentiators. >>Yeah, absolutely. So honeycomb is an observability tool that enables engineers to answer questions about the code that runs in production. And we work with a number of various customers. Some of them are Vanguards, slack. Hello, fresh. Just to name a couple. If you're not familiar with observability tooling, it's akin to traditional application performance monitoring, but we believe that observability is succeeding APM because APM tools were built at the time of monoliths and they just weren't designed to help us answer questions about complex distributed systems that we work with today, where things can go wrong anywhere in that chain. And you can't predict what you're gonna need to ask ahead of time. So some of the ways that we are different is our ability to store and query really rich data, which we believe is the key to understanding those complex systems. What I mean by rich data is something that has a lot of attributes. >>So for example, when an error happens, knowing who it happened to, which user ID, which I don't know region, they were in, what, what they were doing at the time and what was happening at the rest of your system. And our ingest engine is really fast. You could do it in as little as three seconds and we call data like this. I said, kind of rich data, contextual data. We refer it as having high ity and high dimensionality, which are big words. But at the end of the day, what that means is we can store and we can query this data and we can do it really fast. And to give you an example of how that looks for our customers, let's say you have a developer team who are using honeycomb to understand and observe their system. And they get a report that a user is experiencing a slowdown or something's wrong. >>They can go into honeycomb and figure out that this only happens to users who are using a particular language pack with their app. And they operated their app last week, that it only happens when they are trying to upload a file. And so it's this level of granularity and being able to zoom in and out under data that allows you to understand what's happening, especially when you have an incident going on, right. Or your really important high profile customer is telling you that something's wrong. And we can do that. Even if everything else in your other tools looks fine, right? All of your dashboards are okay. You're not actually getting paged on it, but your customers are telling you that something's wrong. And we believe that's where we shine in helping you there. >>Excellent. It sounds like that's where you really shine that realtime visibility is so critical these days. Danielle, Danielle, wanna bring you into the conversation. Talk to us a little bit about the honeycomb partnership from the AWS lens. >>Yeah. So excuse me, observability is obviously a very important segment in the cloud space, very important to AWS, because a lot of all of our customers, as they build their systems distributed, they need to be able to see where, where things are happening in the complex systems that they're building. And so honeycomb is a, is an advanced technology partner. They've been working with us for quite some time and they have a, their solution is listed on the marketplace. Definitely something that we see a lot of demand with our customers, and they have many integrations, which, you know, we've seen is key to success. Being able to work seamlessly with the rest of the services inside of the AWS platform. And I know that they've done some, some great things with people who are trying to develop games on top of AWS things in that area as well. And so very important partner in the observa observability market that we have >>You back to you, let's kind of unpack the partnership, the significance that honeycomb ha is getting from being partners with an organization as potent and pivotal as AWS. >>Yeah, absolutely. I know that this predates me to some extent, but I know for a long time, AWS and honeycomb has really pushed the envelope together. And I think it's a beneficial relationship for both ends. There is kind of two ways of looking at it. On the one side, there is our own infrastructure. So honeycomb runs on AWS and actually one of our critical workloads that supports that fast query engine that I mentioned uses Lambda. And it does so in a pretty Orthodox way. So we've had a long standing conversation with the AWS team as far as drawing outside those lines and kind of figuring out how to use the technology in a way that works for us and hopefully will work for other customers of theirs as well. That also allows us to ask for early access for certain features when they become available. >>And then that way we can be sort of the Guinea pigs and try things out in a way that migrates our system and optimizes our own performance, but also allows again, other customers of AWS to follow in that path. And then the other side of that partnership is really supporting our customers who are both honeycomb users and AWS users, because it's, as you imagine, quite a big overlap, and there are certain ways in which we can allow our customers to more easily get their data from AWS to honeycomb. So for example, last year we built a tool based on the new Lambda extension capability that allowed our users who run their applications in Lambdas to get that tele, telemetry data out of their applications and into honeycomb and it land was win-win >>Excellent. So I'm hearing a lot of synergies from a technology perspective, you're sticking with you, and then Danielle will bring you in. Let's talk about how honeycomb supports D and I across its organization. And how is that synergistic with AWS's approach? Yeah, >>Yeah, absolutely. So I, I sort of alluded to that hesitancy to over index on the women led aspect of ourselves. But again, a lot of things are shifting, we're growing a lot. And so we are recognizing that we need to be more intentional with our DEI initiatives, and we also notice that we can do better and we should do better. And to that, and we're doing a few things differently that are pretty recent initiatives. We are partnering with organizations that help us target specific communities that are underrepresented in tech. Some examples would be after tech hu Latinas in tech among a number of others. And another initiative is DEI head start. That's something that is an internal practice that we started that includes reaching out to underrepresented applicants before any new job for honeycomb becomes live. So before we posted to LinkedIn, before it's even live on our job speech, and the idea there is to kind of balance our pipeline of applicants, which the hope is we'll lead to more diverse hires in the long term. >>That's a great focus there. Danielle, I know we've talked about this before, but for the audience, in terms of the context of the honeycomb partnership, the focus at AWS for D E and I is really significant, unpack that a little bit for us. >>Well, let me just bring it back to just how we think about it with the companies that we work with, but also in, in terms of, you know, what we want to be able to do, excuse me, it's very important for us to, you know, build products that reflect the customers that we have. And I think, you know, working with a company like honeycomb that is looking to differentiate in a space by, by bringing in, you know, the experiences of many different types of people I genuinely believe. And I'm sure Vera also believes that by having those diverse perspectives, that we're able to then build better products for our customers. And, you know, it's one of, one of our leadership principles is, is rooted in this. I write a lot, it asks for us to seek out diverse perspectives and you can't really do that if everybody kind of looks the same and thinks the same and has the same background. So I think that is where our de and I, you know, I thought process is rooted and, you know, companies like honeycomb that give customers choice and differentiate and help them to do what they need to do in their unique environments is super important. So >>The, the importance of thought diversity cannot be underscored enough. It's something that is, can be pivotal to organizations. And it's very nice to hear that that's so fundamental to both companies, Barry, I wanna go back to you for a second. You, I think you mentioned this, the DEI headstart program, that's an internal program at honeycomb. Can you shed a little bit of light on that? >>Yeah, that's right. And I actually am in the process of hiring a first engineer for my team. So I'm learning a lot of these things firsthand and how it works is we try to make sure to pre-load our pipeline of applicants for any new job opening we have with diverse candidates to the best of our abilities. And that can involve partnering with the organizations that I mentioned or reaching out to our internal network and make sure that we give those applicants a head start, so to speak. >>Excellent. I like that. Danielle, before we close, I wanna get a little bit of, of your background. We've got various background in tech, she's celebrating her 10th anniversary. Give me a, a short kind of description of the journey that you've navigated through being a female in technology. >>Yeah, thanks so much. I really appreciate being able to share this. So I started as a software engineer back actually in the late nineties during the, the first.com bubble and have, have spent quite a long time actually as an individual contributor, probably working in software engineering teams up through 2014 at a minimum until I joined AWS as a customer facing solutions architect. I do think spending a lot of time, hands on, definitely helped me with some of the imposter syndrome issues that folks suffer from not to say I don't at all, but it, it certainly helped with that. And I've been leading teens at AWS since 2015. So it's really been a great ride. And like I said, I'm very happy to see all of our engineering teams change as far as their composition. And I'm, I'm grateful to be part of it. >>It's pretty great to be able to witness that composition change for the better last question for each of you. And we're almost out of time and Danielle, I'm gonna stick with you. What's your advice or your recommendations for women who either are thinking about getting into tech or those who may be in tech, maybe they're in individual contributor positions and they're not sure if they should apply for that senior leadership position. What do you advise them to do? >>I mean, definitely for the individual contributors, tech tech is a great career direction and you will always be able to find women like you, you have to maybe just work a little bit harder to join, have community in that. But then as a leader, representation is very important and we can bring more women into tech by having more leaders. So that's my, you just have to take the lead, >>Take the lead, love it there. Same question for you. What's your advice and recommendations for those maybe future female leaders in tech? >>Yeah, absolutely. Danielle mentioned imposter syndrome and I think we all struggle with it from time to time, no matter how many years it's been. And I think for me, for me, the advice would be if you're starting out, don't be afraid to ask questions and don't be afraid to kind of show a, a little bit of ignorance because we've all been there. And I think it's on all of us to remember what it's like to not know how things work. And on the flip side of that, if you are a more senior IC or in a leadership role, also being able to model just saying, I don't know how this works and going and figuring out answers together because that was a really powerful shift for me early in my career is just to feel like I can say that I don't know something. >>I totally agree. I've been in that same situation where just ask the question because you I'm guaranteed. There's a million other people in the room that probably has the, have the same question. And because of imposter syndrome, don't wanna admit, I don't understand that. Can we back up, but I agree with you. I think that is one of the best things. Raise your hand, ask a question, ladies. Thank you so much for joining me talking about honeycomb and AWS, what you're doing together from a technology perspective and the focus efforts that each company has on D and I, we appreciate your insights. >>Thank you so much for having us great talking to you. >>My pleasure, likewise for my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the AWS partner showcase women in check.

>>Hey everyone. Welcome to the AWS partner showcase season one, episode three women in tech. I'm your host. Lisa Martin. I've got two female rock stars joining me. Next Vera Reynolds is here engineering manager, telemetry at honeycomb, and one of our Cub alumni, Danielle GShock ISV PSA director a at AWS joins us as well. Ladies. It's great to have you talking about a very important topic today. >>Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >>Of course, Vera, let's go ahead and start with you. Tell me about your background and tech. You're coming up on your 10th anniversary. Happy anniversary. >>Thank you. That's right. I can't believe it's been 10 years, but yeah, I started in tech in 2012. I was an engineer for most of that time. And just recently, as of March switched to engineering management here at honeycomb and, you know, throughout my career, I was very much interested in all the things, right. And it was a big FOMO as far as trying a few different companies and products. And I've done things from web development to mobile, to platforms. It would be apt to call me a generalist. And in the more recent years, I was sort of gravitating more towards developer tool space. And for me, that came in the form of cloud Foundry circle CI, and now honeycomb. I actually had my eye on honeycomb for a while before joining, I came across a blog post by charity majors. Who's one of our founders and she was actually talking about management and how to pursue that and whether or not it's right for your career. >>And so I was like, who is this person? I really like her found the company. They were pretty small at the time. So I was sort of keeping my eye on them. And then when the time came around for me to look again, I did a little bit more digging, found a lot of talks about the product. And on the one hand, they really spoke to me as the solution. They talked about developers owning their coding in production and answering questions about what is happening, what are your users seeing? And I felt that pain, I got what they were trying to do. And also on the other hand, every talk I saw at the time was from an amazing woman, which I haven't seen before. So I came across charity majors again, Christine yen, who our other founder, and then Liz Frank Jones, who our principal developer advocate. And that really sealed the deal for me as far as wanting to work here. >>Yeah. Honeycomb is interesting. This is a female founded company. You're two leaders. You mentioned that you like the technology, but you were also attracted because you saw females in the leadership position. Talk to me a little bit about what that's like working for a female led organization at honeycomb. >>Yeah. You know, historically we have tried not to over index on that because there was this maybe fear or rareness of it taking away from our legitimacy as an engineering organization, from our success as a company. But I'm seeing that rhetoric shift recently because we believe that with great responsibility with great power comes great responsibility. And we're trying to be more intentional as far as using that attribute of our company. So I would say that for me, it was a choice between a few offers, right. And that was a selling point, for sure, because again, I've never experienced it and I've really seen how much they walk that walk. Even me being here and me moving into management, I think were both ways in which they really put a lot of trust and support in me. And so I it's been a great ride. >>Excellent. Sounds like it. Before we bring Danielle in to talk about the partnership. I do wanna have you here, talk to the audience a little bit about honeycomb, what technology it's delivering and what are its differentiators. >>Yeah, absolutely. So honeycomb is an observability tool that enables engineers to answer questions about the code that runs in production. And we work with a number of various customers. Some of them are Vanguard, slack. Hello, fresh. Just to name a couple. If you're not familiar with observability tooling, it's akin to traditional application performance monitoring, but we believe that observability is succeeding APM because APM tools were built at the time of monoliths and they just weren't designed to help us answer questions about complex distributed systems that we work with today, where things can go wrong anywhere in that chain. And you can't predict what you're gonna need to ask ahead of time. So some of the ways that we are different is our ability to store and query really rich data, which we believe is the key to understanding those complex systems. What I mean by rich data is something that has a lot of attributes. >>So for example, when an error happens, knowing who it happened to, which user ID, which I don't know region, they were in, what, what, what they were doing at the time and what was happening at the rest of your system. And our ingest engine is really fast. You can do it in as little as three seconds and we call data like this. I said, kind of rich data, contextual data. We refer it as having high ity and high dimensionality, which are big words. But at the end of the day, what that means is we can store and we can query this data and we can do it really fast. And to give you an example of how that looks for our customers, let's say you have a developer team who are using comb to understand and observe their system. And they get a report that a user is experiencing a slowdown or something's wrong. >>They can go into honeycomb and figure out that this only happens to users who are using a particular language pack with their app. And they operated their app last week, that it only happens when they are trying to upload a file. And so it's this level of granularity and being able to zoom in and out under data that allows you to understand what's happening, especially when you have an incident going on, right. Or your really important high profile customer is telling you that something's wrong. And we can do that. Even if everything else in your other tools looks fine, right? All of your dashboards are okay. You're not actually getting paged on it, but your customers are telling you that something's wrong. And we believe that's where we shine in helping you there. >>Excellent. It sounds like that's where you really shine that real time visibility is so critical these days. Danielle, Danielle, wanna bring you into the conversation. Talk to us a little bit about the honeycomb partnership from the AWS lens. >>Yeah. So excuse me, observability is obviously a very important segment in the cloud space, very important to AWS, because a lot of all of our customers, as they build their systems distributed, they need to be able to see where, where things are happening in the complex systems that they're building. And so honeycomb is a, is an advanced technology partner. They've been working with us for quite some time and they have a, their solution is listed on the marketplace. Definitely something that we see a lot of demand with our customers, and they have many integrations, which, you know, we've seen is key to success. Being able to work seamlessly with the rest of the services inside of the AWS platform. And I know that they've done some, some great things with people who are trying to develop games on top of AWS things in that area as well. And so very important partner in the observa observability market that we have. >>Vera a back to you, let's kind of unpack the partnership, the significance that honeycomb ha is getting from being partners with an organization as potent and pivotal as AWS. >>Yeah, absolutely. I Don know that this Predates me to some extent, but I Don know for a long time, AWS and honeycomb has really pushed the envelope together. And I think it's a beneficial relationship for both ends. There's kind of two ways of looking at it. On the one side, there is our own infrastructure. So honeycomb runs on AWS and actually one of our critical workloads that supports that fast query engine that I mentioned uses Lambda. And it does also in a pretty unorthodox way. So we've had a long standing conversation with the AWS team as far as drawing outside those lines and kind of figuring out how to use the technology in a way that works for us and hopefully will work for other customers of theirs as well. That also allows us to ask for early access for certain features when they become available. >>And then that way we can be sort of the Guinea pigs and try things out in a way that migrates our system and optimizes our own performance, but also allows again, other customers of AWS to follow in that path. And then the other side of that partnership is really supporting our customers who are both honeycomb users and AWS users, because it's, as you imagine, quite a big overlap, and there are certain ways in which we can allow our customers to more easily get their data from AWS to honeycomb. So for example, last year, we built a tool based on the new Lambda extension capability that allowed our users who run their applications in Lambdas to get that tele telemetry data out of their applications and into honeycomb and demand was win-win >>Excellent. So I'm hearing a lot of synergies from a technology perspective, you're sticking with you, and then Danielle will bring you in. Let's talk about how honeycomb supports D E and I across its organization. And how is that synergistic with AWS's approach Vera? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I sort of alluded to that hesitancy to over index on the women led aspect of ourselves. But again, a lot of things are shifting, we're growing a lot. And so we are recognizing that we need to be more intentional with our DEI initiatives, and we also notice that we can do better and we should do better. And to that end, we're doing a few things differently that are pretty recent initiatives. We are partnering with organizations that help us target specific communities that are underrepresented in tech. Some examples would be Africa, tech hu Latinas in tech among a number of others. And another initiative is DEI head start. That's something that is an internal practice that we started that includes reaching out to underrepresented applicants before any new job for honeycomb becomes live. So before we posted to LinkedIn, before it's even live on our job speech, and the idea there is to kind of balance our pipeline of applicants, which the hope is will lead to more diverse hires in the long term. >>That's a great focus there. Danielle, I know we've talked about this before, but for the audience, in terms of the context of the honeycomb partnership, the focus at AWS for D E and I is really significant, unpack that a little bit for us. >>Well, let me just bring it back to just how we think about it with the companies that we work with, but also in, in terms of, you know, what we want to be able to do, excuse me, it's very important for us to, you know, build products that reflect the customers that we have. And I think, you know, working with a company like honeycomb that is looking to differentiate in a space by, by bringing in, you know, the experiences of many different types of people I genuinely believe. And I'm sure Vera also believes that by having those diverse perspectives, that we're able to then build better products for our customers. And, you know, it's one of, one of our leadership principles is, is rooted in this. I write a lot, it asks for us to seek out diverse perspectives and you can't really do that if everybody kind of looks the same and thinks the same and has the same background. So I think that is where our de and I, you know, I thought process is rooted and, you know, companies like honeycomb that give customers choice and differentiate and help them to do what they need to do in their unique environments is super important. So >>The, the importance of thought diversity cannot be underscored enough. It's something that is, can be pivotal to organizations. And it's very nice to hear that that's so fundamental to both companies, Barry, I wanna go back to you for a second. You, I think you mentioned this, the DEI head start program, that's an internal program at honeycomb. Can you shed a little bit of light on that? >>Yeah, that's right. And I actually am in the process of hiring a first engineer for my team. So I'm learning a lot of these things firsthand and how it works is we try to make sure to pre-load our pipeline of applicants for any new job opening we have with diverse candidates to the best of our abilities. And that can involve partnering with the organizations that I mentioned or reaching out to our internal network and make sure that we give those applicants a head start, so to speak. >>Excellent. I like that. Danielle, before we close, I wanna get a little bit of, of your background. We've got various background in tech, she's celebrating her 10th anniversary. Give me a, a short kind of description of the journey that you've navigated through being a female in technology. >>Yeah, thanks so much. I really appreciate being able to share this. So I started as a software engineer back actually in the late nineties during the, the first.com bubble and have, have spent quite a long time actually as an individual contributor, probably working in software engineering teams up through 2014 at a minimum until I joined AWS as a customer facing solutions architect. I do think spending a lot of time, hands on, definitely helped me with some of the imposter syndrome issues that folks suffer from not to say I don't at all, but it, it certainly helped with that. And I've been leading teen at AWS since 2015. So it's really been a great ride. And like I said, I'm very happy to see all of our engineering teams change as far as their composition. And I'm, I'm grateful to be part of it. >>It's pretty great to be able to witness that composition change for the better last question for each of you. And we're almost out of time and Danielle, I'm gonna stick with you. What's your advice, your recommendations for women who either are thinking about getting into tech or those who may be in tech, maybe they're in individual contributor positions, and they're not sure if they should apply for that senior leadership position. What do you advise them to do? >>I mean, definitely for the individual contributors, tech tech is a great career direction and you will always be able to find women like you, you have to maybe just work a little bit harder to join, have community in that. But then as a leader, representation is very important and we can bring more women into tech by having more leaders. So that's my, you just have to take the lead, >>Take the lead. Love that various same question for you. What's your advice and recommendations for those maybe future female leaders in tech? >>Yeah, absolutely. Danielle mentioned imposter syndrome and I think we all struggle with it from time to time, no matter how many years it's been. And I think for me, for me, the advice would be if you're starting out, don't be afraid to ask questions and don't be afraid to kind of show a bit, a little bit of ignorance because we've all been there. And I think it's on all of us to remember what it's like to not know how things work. And on the flip side of that, if you are a more senior IC or in a leadership role, also being able to model just saying, I don't know how this works and going and figuring out answers together because that was a really powerful shift for me early in my career is just to feel like I can say that I don't know something. >>I totally agree. I've been in that same situation where just ask the question because you I'm guaranteed. There's a million outta people in the room that probably has the, have the same question and because an imposter syndrome don't wanna admit, I don't understand that. Can we back up, but I agree with you. I think that is one of the best things. Raise your hand and ask a question, ladies. Thank you so much for joining me talking about honeycomb and AWS, what you're doing together from a technology perspective and the focus efforts that each company has on D E and I, we appreciate your insights. >>Thank you so much for having us talking to >>My pleasure. Likewise, for my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the AWS partner showcase women in.

>>Yeah. Hello. Welcome to the Cubes International Women's Showcase, featuring International Women's Day. I'm John for your host of the queue here in Palo Alto, California. And we have three great guests videoing in from Kuala Lumpur as well as Bangkok. Johann Kwa, group CEO of K s K Group. It's just a Christina Equal, co founder and head of K s, K C Labs and Cindy, co founder of Sunday Insurance in Bangkok. Ladies. Thanks for coming on the cue. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks for Thanks for joining me on this special day. >>Thank you. Thank you so much. You >>guys are three sisters, trailblazing and the insurance and real estate through digital transformation in the cloud taking a three decade old family business to the next level raising the bar, as they say in the cloud business. Congratulations. Tell us how it all started. What's going on now? What does it look like? Where did it come from? Tell the Storey. >>Okay, so maybe I'll start, Uh, you know, since I'm at the group CEO level. So, um, as a quick introduction, you know? Okay. SK group, uh, were about 30 years old now, as a group three decades. Um, we started off as an insurance, uh, nonlife insurance company. Um, and then over the years, um, you know, we we operate in in South East Asia, So we are based in the US and markets. That message is also sitting in, um, and very quickly over the years, you know, we decided to actually venture into property development as well. Um, and really across the journey. Um, you know, we we've always been very, um, obsessed over the customers. You know, uh, and, you know, during this time and age, you know, all the customers are really digital natives now, and and, you know, the tech is very, very interesting. And so So starting in the year of 2017, we decided, um, to actually venture. Cindy and I at least we decided to start up our own, uh, tech, uh, called Sunday. Uh, Cindy is now the full time CEO and co founders. Um, and, you know, uh, it's an exciting journey from then on, uh, where now The first full stack ensure attack in in the whole of of the Asian market, uh, starting off in Thailand. Um, And then when Christine came back, to join the business. You know, since we were already in real estate, we decided, taking on from the inspiration of what we did with Sunday, how about we do the same in in in property? Because we obviously saw, you know, there was super loads of opportunities that we could we could we could do. And and a year ago, we gave birth to cast a city lapse. Um, now a prop tech company based in Malaysia. >>Christine and Cindy tell the storey here because this is actually fascinating. Storey, your sisters, your entrepreneurial. So you know each other? You're related and you've got ups and downs with the startups and growing companies changing landscape. A lot of challenges. You all gotta get along all the time. How's it going? What's it like? Mm. >>Maybe I'll start. I think I think for me I'm probably the newest addition to the trio in the, you know, working together kind of space. So for me, I think it's all about really learning how to, you know, separate your professional and personal life. And like you mentioned, you know, we live together. But we also work together. So for me, I think I took a >>lot of advice >>and direction. Um, both from Johann and, >>uh, help >>me a lot. Um, so So I think that's been my experience. Been great So far, Um, they've been really, really supportive. And I think going through this journey of, you know, like, founding a company together, it's obviously very challenging. And so I feel very fortunate to have two sisters who have already gone through it once, you know? >>So for the other guests is trying to get on the cube here. Over there. Um, sounds like fun. Uh, Christine. So on the city labs, you gotta cheque side of it there in the in the property tech. That's exciting. How's it going over there? >>Uh, super, Super cool. Super fun. Uh, has been one heck of a journey building a company from scratch, let alone in tech. I think you know, we created K s K C d lives because we really wanted to modernise the real estate industry, uh, and create, like, super transformative solutions, uh, many for two reasons. You know, one is to improve the quality of life, um, of the community around us. Uh, and secondly, really to harness all the technology and this unused data right in the real estate industry. And try and say, how can we use that to make more intelligent business decisions? Yeah, so So really, Um, I guess for us, it's been really exciting because we've launched two products. Uh, you know, one of which is Ai driven, dynamic pricing engine. And we realised that actually, the way that homes are priced today, uh, in real estate is super RK right? You only use a few basic variables. Like, how big is your house? What views do you have? But then we realised that, actually hey, with a I where you suddenly can use, like, hundreds of variables, um, and even, you know, consisting of wellness variables, for example. Um, and you can really customise pricing all the way down to a single unit level. Uh, and we realise that by doing this, we could actually unlock, um, ferret prices for our customers while also constantly kind of tracking the financial health of the company. >>Awesome. Cindy, I wanna get you in here. A co founder, Sunday Insurance. That was the origination. But a lot of change data drives everything machine learning. You gotta have the state of the art. What's going on with you? >>Yeah, I think for us, essentially, uh, we're operating in a very old industry. Um, it's one of the oldest industries globally. And if you look at the entire insurance value chain, um, every part of the process can actually, it's all about data. You can. It can be disrupted. Um, but yet every inch of the value chain is also regulated. So I think essentially what we're trying to do is, um, we're trying to really innovate the customer journey. So imagine if, um, even in the States now and even coming back to Asia, a lot of how people buy insurance is still very face to face agency. But I think in the future is going to be remote online on your app, through any partners as well. So I think, uh, we're trying to adopt any machine learning to really scale and automate, uh, the journey of anyone who's trying to buy insurance. But at the same time for insurance companies were also trying to help them automate that function itself. So imagine if banks are trying to dish out loans and you're trying to predict. What's the credit risk of every, um, single customer? That's exactly what insurance company needs to do as well. Um, And I guess insurance is all about buying a service as well. >>It's unlike you >>know, I'm gonna buy an apple. It comes to the hardware, >>right? So we're >>selling a service. So essentially you're service has to also dramatically changed. And I think these days, especially when we're operating in, uh, Thailand, Indonesia is one of the highest adoption rates for mobile these days. Everyone does. Everything lives on on the apps. So, um, insurance companies also needs to really on board their journey on that as well as increased engagement. So I don't just want to be an insurance company where, um, I speak to you and I have an issue with my claim. I want to really build a relationship with you and engage you differently. So I think it's actually that's the mission for a Sunday. So I think Imagine if imagine an insurance company 50 years in the future. How would it be? Uh, that's our mission. >>This is a great example. You guys, First of all, you're very dynamic. Thanks for sharing your storey. But when you get into the tech here, if industries that are transforming because of the digital transformation, the consumers expect the apps. You guys, as co founders and entrepreneurs now running this big business have to meet the demands and leverage the technology. How have you done that? How are you guys manage that? What kinds of decisions have you made? And you share some either experiences or observations of how to navigate and how you're riding that wave. >>Yeah. So I think if you hear from what Cindy and Christine has just mentioned, I mean, uh, we were playing in, you know, two of the oldest and largest industries in the world. Real estate and insurance. And, uh, you know, in both industries, as I said earlier, you know, it's really all about the customers, right? Um you know, in in the past, we used to think of of businesses as you know, what's your vertical and the horizontal today? Um, at least four k s k and and and all the all these, um, you know, tech ventures that we are now venture building. We're really thinking about it from the customer land. So really thinking about it from a customer ecosystem perspective. So instead of, you know, creating products and and having that push out to the customers, you know, we use tech and data and and especially data today and the right amount of data and what type of data that we want understanding that and really, um, building that product and really the services, uh, for the customers. So once you know the customer enters our ecosystem, whether you know, in your real estate, um, ecosystem or whether it's in your insurance ecosystem, we want you to to continue to stay with us, um, and to trust us. Um, and so it's not just about selling you a product, but really, you know, like, what Cindy says building a relationship with you because we think that, you know, obviously you know when insurance is something you really need when when when things go wrong in your life, we don't only want to be there. When things go wrong in your life and for real estate, you know everybody needs a shelter. So so so that's why we think that building relationships are very important and from really true, that lands is when you really think about the ecosystem and you think about data. I think Cindy Increasing gave some examples of how we're approaching it. Um, a lot of people start from from from a, you know, from a traditional business and from within. But for us, um, we decided to actually take it outside. Um, and, you know, take the approach of venture building from a startup, um, but really have, on the back end, really have that Connexion to the core businesses. Because what the core businesses understand is, you know, lifetime and experience of how customers feel and and, you know, um, in insurance, it's really about how to run a financial institution in real estate is really how to build buildings, and that is something that we can't take away. But, you know, you use technology to enable and to power. But what venture and start ups do extremely well is really the way we are extremely nimble and the way you use tech and data to navigate the quick changes of customer demands. And and you know, one thing an app and it's all about quick iterations. Right? When you build a super app, how do you incorporate all the features that are coming in, you have to keep on, you know, iterating changing, innovating, um, and innovating small with quick wins and then taking on a larger scale. And so the way we position ourselves is when you have to start up and you combine that with the core. Um, and putting the two together is how, how, how we look at things and that four minutes, the whole ecosystem >>that's awesome and being agile as fast and speed is key if you want to be there. Startup. But at the core business, that's going kind of slow. You got to kind of make everything go faster. That's a great, great insight. Let's talk about the disruption of the property industry again. That's real estate now with the Internet of things, technologies and also people expect technology. They wanna have access. I don't wanna have all these passwords and, you know they want to have easy in and out. They want good efficiency, save money. What's the disruption angle on? Um, the property neck. Christine, what's your How do you see that? The big disruption going? >>Yeah. So I think as Johann already mentioned before, you know um I think our customers we know are becoming, um, digital natives. Right? And they expect very convenient lifestyles. And we're all about our customers. So, actually, that's why we launched also another product, right where we're taking all of these things that you just mentioned, you know, about Iot into account. So what we found is, um, that actually, today, um, you know, the village about real estate is that we all live through that life as well, so we can experience that. Uh, we found that residents today, um, they find it quite challenging to request, you know, basic services like housekeeping managing, um, their defects, their tenants. Um, you know, even the financial planning and even getting into the building, right, they want more convenience. Um, but we realised that actually, all these services in the real estate industry right now and even in the prop tech space, they are very, very segmented. They're all discussed across multiple different apps. So what we really try to do is hey, let's try and consolidate all of this into one single app, which we have done, which is really cool, And it helps our residents really stay engaged and connected with our property. Um, what we did also was on the Iot front. We we were actually the first developer in Malaysia to also integrate, You know, future proof solutions like remote lift calling as well, um, into the mobile app. And that's to really go like, push on the Iot front. For us as well. >>Must be great for retention. It's all the gadgets are built into the of course. You have good WiFi fibre in their everyone's got good band with >>for sure >>It's like water and plumbing. Uh, I'd like to get everyone everyone loves that. I gotta ask Now, on the on the on the on The disruption is great. Now you've got the clouds, the clouds here for actually Amazon. You guys are big customer because you guys can move fast and they do all the heavy lifting. How are you guys seeing that helped modernise in the industry of insurance? Because that's a big vertical for a W s and you guys are doing is Cindy. What is the What is the modernisation? Um, half that you guys have taken with a W s. >>Yeah, sure. So I think essentially, for insurance, it's a product development. And when we talk about product development means, um how do you price, um, every certain individual or company very differently, right, Because everyone has very different risks surrounding them. Uh, currently, what we face is that it's a flat pricing fixed pricing. Um, and it's not really personalised to you. If you are a very good behaviour and safe kind of customer, it doesn't translate to any premium savings for you. Um, so I think, uh, part of insurance is to give, for example, affordable access to health care. But if your premiums isn't sustainable for health insurance, then it doesn't really need the point. So, uh, for Sunday, like, how we're trying to trying to do it differently is, for example, we use some AWS cloud solutions and AWS Lambda too, really power our machine learning Savalas and Cloud infrastructure. So, for example, uh, Sunday we are a serious bee companies sober and the growth stage. So at any point in time, we need to ensure that our infrastructure is able to support a huge spike in transaction volume, and we're working with large scale partners like telcos, e commerce companies, or even within our organic channels. So our AI machine learning risk prediction model, which is basically, um, powering our premium pricing engines whenever there's any requests coming in front of the Web for foreign quotation. For example, if someone wants to buy health insurance, um, it can go up and spike. But also, the data model is actually pricing, uh, processing billions of calculations, ingesting a lot of data points. Uh, it needs to do that within seconds, so yeah, I think a w s. We've been using it from day one since we launched. It's been, uh, helping us on >>that and make it go faster. That's the big thing. I gotta ask you when you guys have this family business now, three decades, you got a lot going on extending that legacy and sustaining the family legacy. I love the Storey. So who decides whether to do the startup and you guys draw straws? Is that you guys flip a coin? You gotta who runs the big business? How do you guys decide that? Mm. >>Um, maybe I'll >>I >>would say maybe it came very naturally to us. Really? I guess Here we don't have to disclose. Our age is a little bit, so I mean, I mean, we all actually the background and really all three of us. Before we came into the family business, we were all working professionals in very different fields. I was a I was in banking. Cindy was a lawyer, and Christine was a a doctor, actually, Um um, but, you know, I came back first. I'm the eldest, so after, you know, walking outside and looking into the family business. So I came back first, and and And from there, I took over the insurance business and looking at it, it was a very lonely place to be. So, um, you know, after a couple of years of Cindy being a professional life, you know, we said, Hey, would you like to come back? And let's, uh, take a different journey with insurance and see how we can build something different? Uh, since we know a lot about insurance, but let's make make make a difference and and and, you know, be sustainable, but also evolve over time and show the world that insurance is actually pretty sexy, actually. Um, and then, you know, Christine saw the fund that the two of us were having, uh, already started building a real estate on on my end. Uh, and then, uh, she came back. And, you know, we have a conversation, and we said, Look, looking at you know what we're doing in Sunday? You know, building pricing engines and being able to price to a single customer level. Um, we saw that opportunity in real estate, and, uh so I asked her. I said, Look, would you like to do this? You know, because I think there is something cool. Um, the three of us can band together and still inspire each other share ideas across each other. That's an opportunity that a lot of people don't get right. I mean, to all these industries in the world being able to cross share ideas. Uh, and sometimes inspirations and ideas don't come from the same industry. Uh, and so I think. And that's how we started. Really, John, it's not. Maybe we're lucky, and we should be grateful for >>that. You're all power women. I love the storey, and it is good that you come together, and I think the entrepreneurial kind of twist makes it more fun. But not everyone is cut out with the entrepreneurship, but it also gives you more risk management. You can. You can go after opportunities I love. I love the strategy there. You guys are great leaders. Any advice for other aspiring women leaders and entrepreneurs out there who want to make a difference? Make an impact? The world is. Change is getting better for everyone. And and again, entrepreneurial could be in big companies and also big companies doing startups. There's a whole new world. What advice would you guys give other aspiring women leaders? Okay, >>I'll keep it short from my end. I think for me it's about really following your passion following your ambition. And lastly, I think not to try and not feel like you need to conform to any gender stereotypes because I think in male dominated industries such as real estate, our are attack. I think people might have some ideas about you know what a what a tech leader or what a real estate leader might have to look like. But you don't have to conform to that. So that's probably my advice. Uh, >>yeah, I I fully agree with Chris right there. I think, um, gender isn't an issue here. If you have a passion and you identify, there is a market opportunity that you can, you know, you can really do something about it. Just just pursue it. I think most importantly, if you ever want to be an entrepreneur and start your own business or your own, start up. Uh, so long as you have the confidence, I think you're you're good to go. Um, there's a lot of talk out that that or, you know, um, women led start ups are not >>attracting >>funds, but we haven't faced that anyway. In this part of Asia, I think there's a lot of, um, I think it attracts even more attention. If you're a woman in a male dominated that industry like, hey, then you know it's it's quite unique. So I think you have a strength there, and I think there's a lot of diverse talent out there. Um, post pandemic. A lot of people are looking for changes as well, so I think it is a lot of a lot of opportunity out there. >>Yeah, Joanne, you know, you know, the thing is with cloud computing, it's a level centre. It really because if you can come together, whether it's sisters like you guys, powerful sisters and professional experience coming together leverage technology to re factor old industries. It's all about the numbers and the performance. At the end of the day, you know, you move faster and you take territory and beat the competition. >>Ultimate >>the ultimate uh, leveller. Well, congratulations. You guys are great. Thanks for coming on The Cube Sisters. You guys are amazing. Great Storey Love it. Thanks for coming out and celebrating International Women's Day feature today as part of our international women's showcase here in the Cube. Thank you so much. >>Thank you. Thank you for having us. >>Okay. The Cubes International Women's showcase Going on all year, this time featuring International Women's Day The big celebration. I'm John Ferrier, host of the Cube here in Palo Alto, California. Thanks for watching. Mm mm

>>Hi, everyone. Welcome to the cube and unstoppable domain, special showcase women of web three or well, three I'm super excited for this season. We have three great guests, Sandy Carter, the SVP and channel chief of unstoppable domains. Noel Bailey managing director for the entertainment, AKA disco leper. That's her handle NFT handle. We'll talk more about that. And Kristen Mirabella, Bella director of business development, Gemini all in the web three world here for women of web three. Welcome to the show. So what a great announcement, Sandy? What is the wow three women of web three. And why did you announce it on stumbled domains? Web three. >>Awesome. Well, thanks John. So today we are so excited to announce unstoppable women of web three. And one of the things that we noticed ourselves plus 60 plus companies is that we need more diversity in the web three space. So our mission is to make web three more accessible for everyone to help women with that first step and be very action oriented. So we're going to launch education, networking and events as we move forward. And we're real excited to start today, March 8th, we've got a 24 hour Twitter space. We have a YouTube live. We're going to be auction and off some NFTs to donate to girls in tech, a not-for-profit who is also going to launch a mentoring platform for women in web three. We'll also be announcing a hundred inspirational women's and Webster, and I can take up the entire time talking about all we have in store to make web three accessible to everyone. >>That's awesome. We're going to unpack that lot of things to talk about there. I'm really looking forward to it, neural, your, you got a great story here. What are the lazy lions and, and the queen so to speak and what are you guys doing? And tell us about your handle. >>That's a lot of questions there. John, why don't we start with that? So, I mean, I started my NFT journey about six months ago only, and I got really lucky in entering into the space for the lazy lions to start with and the Kings and existing Queens that were kind of in that space to begin were incredibly welcoming. I literally like, I love being the person in the room that asked the dumb question, because if I, if I can ask it, then, you know, there's, there's a hundred other people there that aren't asking that question. And so when I stepped into the, you know, the pride space with Twitter and discord, getting to know the lazy lions before I even got into my first project, they were incredibly welcoming. Like any question that I asked they had an answer for. And so, you know, why we're kind of wondering with unstoppable and supporting that? >>Well, one, once we, once through that space, I got introduced to queen Sandy as well. You know, she's part of the pride and, and one of the lazy lions and again, yeah, it's that whole symbiotic relationship where you've got, you know, Kings and Queens, men and women kind of in the pride, but it's not just about men and women either. It's the diversity aspect where it's people from all different cultures, backgrounds all around the world. And so, you know, getting in and learning and growing together in this brand new space that we're all part of creating. And then Unstoppables a huge part of that with the gateway to allowing people to kind of get into it, to begin. So it just all makes sense. We're going to expense. >>Okay, we're going to unpack that in a minute, but Kristen w what's going on with Gemini and web three, what's going on in the ecosystem there? How are you supporting the women of web three initiative? >>Really excited. Gemini is an exchange and custodian. We offer access to cryptocurrencies. We are your access points. We're the access point for women who are trying to embrace their own financial freedom and build their own story, be economically empowered and interacting with web three in a way that's going to be increasingly necessary. As, as this continues to build, Gemini is really excited to be able to provide a platform for education for anyone and especially women who are looking to build their knowledge base around what's happening in cryptocurrency. How can they interact with it? How can they make really good financial decisions as they look to interact with networks, you know, within defy, what tokens do they want to be able to, you know, purchase, move off of a centralized platform like Geminis. We are very regulated. We're very secure as an access point to be able to interact with cryptocurrencies and use crypto to interact with this ecosystem that's growing. You can, you know, as a woman decide on a really good idea on how you want to embrace that financial freedom of interacting with the protocol that might unlock your potential to be more financially independent, make really good decisions about the future of what your, your family might need economically, you know, in Gemini as an access point for that, as far as crypto and other digital assets go is where we were really proud that we can power that network. >>So we have to chip and I got the lazy lions. You have the unstoppable, all three of you guys are in the middle of all the action and it's super game-changing. It's also a cultural shift. You seeing a lot of young, the young generation, as well as senior experienced people coming in, certainly technologists are coming in, business leaders are coming in and it just feels like a whole nother cultural shift. So we have to ask you, what are you guys most excited for in this roadmap for women of web three what's on your mind? What do you guys see? What's the vision? >>Well, I'll start first. You know, one of the things that I'm really excited about is getting women to experience web three, not just book learning, but really get in there and interact and play with it. So for example, John, there is a game called de-central land. They sell land. And what they're going to help us do is to build a virtual women of web three headquarters inside of the game. And as women go there, they're going to experience, you know, logging in, they're going to experience crypto, like Kristin does talked about they'll experience. NFT is like disco, just talked about. And so it won't just be book smart. They'll be able to get in there and do and see and play, which I think is the best way to learn about web three. >>For me, I'd say, I mean, honestly, I'm most excited about getting it started. There's been so much work kind of going into this to begin with. And, and this space is, is also new and constantly growing and kind of evolving, changing as we go because we're pioneers kind of in this space, really. Like we all have web three. And so getting it started and it continues to grow and evolve from there, which is, you know, a lot to do with kind of community driven initiatives what's happening in the market and the space at the time as well. So super get it started, build it. And it keeps growing from there. >>Christine, what's your vision to what, how do you see this evolving what's what do you hope for and what are some of the things you're excited about? >>I couldn't agree more. What I think is really exciting is that again, if you're looking to learn about this, you know, Sandy you're so right, you're not gonna learn about really how to unlock the potential of this ecosystem by reading about it. You have to get in there, find crypto, come to Geminis platform, open an account, understand what it means to buy cryptocurrency, buy Bitcoin, understand what you're comfortable with. Use resources like our crypto pedia, to understand the differences between tokens, the differences between layers. Why would you buy this token and transfer it off of the platform where you're looking to interact with three, maybe you're looking at these web three applications and you want to understand what generating income through one of these looks like you really got to start with the basics, but start here, purchase something, move it off. You know, test it, use little, little amounts. >>You don't have to buy a full Bitcoin. I think that that's a common misconception with people who are really starting to get interested in the space, especially as they start to learn about cryptocurrency, buy a tiny piece, you know, you don't need to sell the farm, move it off the platform, learn a little bit about how you can interact, build a community around yourself. There are a lot of women who are learning how to do this and through NFTs and through other interests that you might naturally have, you can really embrace the technology and understand what it can do for you. >>You know, you, you mentioned that in the early days of Bitcoin, even a theory of giving it away was a big part of that kind of early days of community. And Earl, you mentioned the word pride as part of the lazy lions community is a big part of this. Sandy, you know, this you've seen communities develop over the years, this new kind of community dynamic is a network effect, but it's also people centric. It's also about reputation. So it's about being open and collaborative. I mean, it sounds like a bunch of cliches jammed together, but this is kind of the world we're in for web three. Can you guys share your thoughts on that and get a reaction to that? >>Yeah. And I just wanted to jump on kind of what Kristin was mentioning there as well. You know, like, and Sandy, like get in there, get started, like have a little taste, have a little of this watch learn and then kind of tying into your community aspect there, ask the questions, get into, and you know, the two, the couple of main spaces, there are discord and Twitter, which, and again, I signed up my Twitter account in 2014 and I pretty much didn't touch it, like from 2015 kind of onwards, like now learning and getting in and growing with this space, that's kind of where the mediums are to start with with that. So yeah. Get in and get started and, and ask the questions on the way >>Sandy, you see Twitter and discord as the primary. >>Yeah. Yeah. There's so many this guy, right. Because you know, I'm on, I'm now on telegram. I'm on disbarred, I'm on Twitter, I'm on signal. I just got invited to signal groups. So this is one of the areas that we need to work on for web three. I think all of us would agree is just that interface. Part of the reason that we're launching this is because it is hard today, right? Web three is hard. And so there's multiple communications channels, you know, and that's why we love, you know, partners like Jim and I, who are making it easier and lazy lions who are setting up these communities. You know, when you buy in it of T you're really not, I guess you are buying the NFT for value, but you're also buying into the community disco. And I have been meeting actually every Saturday night for a while now with the rest of the Queens, planning out women of web three, Kristin and Jim and I, and I have been meeting together it's about the people and the networking and the tribe that you're part of as well. You really nailed it on the community piece. >>You know, ever since we started talking about it unstoppable, I got to say, I've been wanting to get the cube and FTS going because it is a community dynamic, but it's also this got practical usage of is there's data behind it. There's actually real use cases. Can you guys share your thoughts on how you see the use cases being applied specifically to the world, but also to, to women of web three to Wasn't go first. >>Yeah. We're also polite. We're all quite polite. And do you want to go first? You're one of our partners, we'll let you start us off. >>Sorry. I didn't want to and want to jump in there and they want to get started a real applications of, of what this looks like. I think goes back to an idea I had at the top of the call as there's clarity, as that continues to emerge as web three continues to build. And we understand what this really means. I think many would say that there's, you know, lack of clarity around what web three means. Maybe there are some platforms that are slightly more centralized than others. If we think of what web three in general represents, you know, it's this idea of decentralization empowering you through ownership of your data, empowering you through the ability to do things in a decentralized way, but you're not able to do on web two. And I think the real application of transition of where we are today into what this becomes is, you know, I think we keep nailing it on the head. >>You really have to get out there and practice. You have to understand what this transition means for you and what does it mean for what you're trying to achieve? So if my personal stance is, is really solid in where, you know, your financial future is rooted. And if we're talking about cryptocurrency in your ability to interact with these networks, like we've been saying, you have to practice, you have to understand and learn what you're getting yourself into. But I also think there's this element of being okay with making mistakes, but you are talking about your financial future. You're talking about something that's there really high stakes around making mistakes means starting with really good partners. You can start with platforms like Gemini. You can start with platforms like unstoppable domains and know that the foundation has been laid for you to be able to test these grounds. >>I think that what this becomes and what is really important here is knowing that there are going to be a few centralized points that are your access to this web of three, to this broader ecosystem. But being able to trust that these platforms have security in mind. So the security first mindset that empowers you to then go be in charge of data, privacy, being able to take charge of really what your interaction with the rest of this world means. And being, being able to trust that the foundational layer that you're entering that world through is one that can be trusted. I think that as we look at the real world application of this finding that right starting point is really important. >>Yeah. And I w I would just add John to, to what Kristen just said. There are also B2B use cases here. So we want to make sure that, you know, there's a lot of consumer work, but there's also B to B as well. So, you know, imagine you're in decentral land or you're in sandbox a game. If you're a retailer or in a consumer business, you can place your products or your portfolio inside of that game, there is now decentralized finance that's out there. How does that play a role in your company and the way that you're financing for your company? Not just for yourself, like Kristin mentioned, but also for your company. And then dowels, of course, fractional ownership of different things. We're seeing, you know, funding change. SPACs turning into dowels, all of this. If you look at our 24 hour Twitter space, I'm S I can't wait. I think I'm going to actually do a 24 hour bins for myself because >>That's a college come on. We gotta do. >>Right. I know this guy will be with me. Right. And just that last time I did, that was new. Yeah. >>Well, super exciting. I mean, wow, wow. Three could be a doubt. I mean, the vision here is really amazing. I am so impressed. I think this is a great thing because it could go anywhere. What do you guys see at Dow in the future merging communities and merging tribes together? How do you guys have you guys talked about that? What's the, what's the thought process there? >>We actually did talk about doing a Dow. We decided to kick off first and get everybody up to speed on what it was before we jumped into a doubt, which I think is pretty advanced and sophisticated. And so, you know, part of what we also see is if you look at part of the membership, you'll see women of blockchain, women of data BFF. I mean, all these women's groups coming together to unite as long with, along with a lot of major companies, web to companies, Google Deloitte I'll chair, with the who's, who of web three, you've got Gemini, you've got, you know, consensus, you've got blockchain.com. So, you know, I love this because we are coming together for a movement, not for individual companies, but to have an impact on the industry to really educate women. And John, I forgot one of the really cool things we're also announcing today is our first 100 inspirational women of web three. In fact, disco helped me come up with the name of that, because we do want to highlight as examples, all of these great women that are in the space so that we each can reach back and pull others forward. >>Okay, now we've got to get into the, the disco leopard, let's put the lower third up there so we can see it. And the name that's tell us about the story here. And what does it mean to you? Take us through the thought process, the experience and how you envision this unfolding. Cause it's an NFT. You have one it's >>Yeah, totally. I guess. I mean, starting with, so the disco leopard kind of piece to it as well, like in this new space, in the, in the web space, first of all, you get to like, come up with your own identity. So I got to pick this go leopard, like if he doesn't want to be a disco leopard. And so even just coming up with the journey of like, what is your identity with that? And then, you know, you go through that path of being doxed, meaning being revealed, people kind of know who you are or not, or keeping it, you know, kind of a name on the side, that's all. Okay. Like it's all part of that whole decentralized space, which is super exciting. So just so you know, like the disco leper feeds, you know, optimist glass, half full, you know, pessimist, glass, half empty. And then the third piece to that was disco leopard equals. Awesome. And that's where I saw it. And I'm like, that's me a hundred percent. I'm >>Trying to get your lower third, had your name next to it, >>But that's okay. I'm all right with that. I don't mind. So, you know, getting, getting into that to start with, and then, you know, when we were talking about partners and coming into this safe space as well, and yeah, absolutely kind of technology based partners infrastructure to make sure that we're, we're safe and we've got a smooth gateway kind of coming in, but I'm also gonna put communities into partnerships as well, because there are so many NFT projects, you know, defy gaming projects, et cetera, finding your people, finding the community that resonates with you and it's different for everyone. And that's a beautiful thing, but you get to kind of find like-minded people and join them. >>You know, I've been thinking this for about a long, long time, and I thought I was just weird, but now that it's happening, you guys are in the middle of it. The, your identity is so important now, and you could have a community and tribe to belong to, but yet traverse other tribes and move around. This is kind of the whole prospect of unstoppable, right? So Sandy, this is like a great future. You can be protected in a trusted tribe or community, and then still move around to others and engage. It's almost like a packet moving around a network. It's really about people too, on the internet. This is a total complete game changer. It wasn't really, it's not really possible prior to this. >>Yeah. I mean, if you look at all the members, you can move from a metaverse, you can move into gaming, you can go into defy, we've got NFT communities. And, and I love, you know, like you said, traversing, those communities, like we're going to do an auction and we've had donated NFTs. So disco and lazy lions, the queen of lazy lions are donating a lazy lion. Crypto chicks are gonna donate something. If you don't know what these are, these are all NFT communities that have their own identities as well. We have Deadheads NILAH and the long neck ladies, which is started by a 13 year old girl, who's going to talk on one of our Twitter spaces about how she had 13 earned millions of dollars and became times first artist in residence. So there's just, I mean, there's so much potential here and just look at all these amazing women on the screen. You know, I think web three, the face of web three is female. >>That's awesome. Any final thoughts for you guys and, and the session here, it's amazing. First of all, I'm so excited to, to have this conversation and be included and be included into the group here. Thank you for having me closing thoughts on women of web three, how people can get involved, what you guys aspire to be, what are some of the goals can take us through that? >>I guess for me looking at, you kind of asked the question of, you know, what we're most excited about with what's coming up with the international women's day. And, and, you know, what's beyond that. I'm really excited about what unstoppable are doing in introducing the gateway from web two to web three, because that whole 24, the, the events that we have coming on today is, you know, information, education, openness, how to use it, but what's coming beyond there. And it is that transition from web to, and how to, how do we even, like, I'm about to learn that as well. And as I said, I've been in that, in this NMT journey for six months learning thus far, but what does it look like to get into a web three experience and the web page and that design and look and feel so that next step of learning and getting into it. And again, anyone that's kind of being involved in this conversation now you'll be the first people stepping into that space as web three really comes to life. And it is the new web. Very exciting, >>Great. >>I couldn't agree more neural. What I think excites us the most is the level of interest and the level of engagement that we're seeing an unprecedented levels. These and what's coming next is that you're going to see more and more women and more, more people as part of these communities, as we've talked about wanting to learn, wanting to engage and wanting to be part of this and numbers that we really haven't even seen still yet. We've just scratched the surface. And what I want to ask everyone to do is not to wait not to wait until you feel like you're behind. Take action. Now go to our crypto pedia page, open an account at Gemini, start to interact with cryptocurrencies, understand what it means to take, you know, a crypto or digital asset off of a platform and interact with some of these networks, understand what it means to own, and then empty look at unstoppable domains and understand how you can start to dip your toe in. We really want to empower everyone with the knowledge of what you can do here, and we couldn't be more excited about the future >>Also Sandy final word. >>Yes. So I'm excited about a new world where diversity helps shape the next movement. You know, we've seen web one and web two shaped by, you know, homogeneous groups. And what I'm looking forward to is the future, because we know that innovation is driven by diversity of thought. And so for me, I'm really excited about today international women's day, where we're launching all these educational sessions, you know, Kristen mentioned don't wait, get involved, disco, you know, talked a lot about the potential of going from web two to web three. We hope to see tons of women learning from the web to world. And then I just have to say, I mean, if we could get this across in the virtual world, we're then going to also host an in real life I R L event at south by Southwest. So I'm real excited to be back in person to John so that I can actually give my, my fellow colleagues hugs as well. >>I can't wait to be in person. Thank you so much for coming on this. A great program today is international women's day, but every day is women of web three day. Thanks for sharing great insight. I'm looking forward to more conversations and seeing what happens and participating in any way that I can. And thanks for having me and including me in the conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. This is the cubes conversations here in the showcase women of web three. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover Virtual Experience Brought to You by HP >>I Welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover. 2020. The virtual experience I'm Stew Minimum course This year we're getting to talk to HP, their customers and their partners where they are around the globe. We said many times these were, you know, together, even while we're art happy to dig into a really important partnership with HP and VM Ware. Welcome to the program. First time guest on the program Christmas Satterthwaite. She is the vice president of product management for Compute with Packard Enterprise and welcome back to the program Lee Caswell. He is the vice president, product marketing for hyper converged infrastructure, her at VM Ware talking about V sphere and how that gets bundled into everything else. Chris Stanley, thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having us. >>Alright, So, Chris, let's start with you. So you know, like a little bit about your background? The HP and HP relationship with VM Ware, you know, goes back to you know, the earliest days, but, you know, give us a little bit about you know where in the portfolio you focus on and and how VM Ware fit, then >>Oh, sure, sure. So I've been with H P E for 23 years now, and I'm leading the business for Alliance and Synergy and talking a little bit about the relationship with VM Ware. So we've been partnering for 19 years and we have over 200,000 joint customers together. And I'm actually often asked about the partnership and how we partner and we really partner across all fronts. So it's from the innovation for the co engineering, the working with specific customers on what solutions are good for them to servicing our customers. So we're really working across the board, and a lot of customers we work with closely are really impressed with how closely we're working together, because that's what they look for. >>Yeah, and we it's it's It's an interesting relationship to watch. Obviously, you know, long history Chris talked about on the it side, but the VM partnership is more than just the compute. Maybe gives a little bit of a view inside. You know, the joint engineering go to market efforts that you do. >>Yeah. I mean, customers always sit up straight when we talk together, because both hard companies or just raw engines of innovation and they look forward to not just the capabilities or bringing, but also the seamless way that we integrate that and make that seamless and easy for customers to digest. So certainly on the server front through V sphere, that's been a longstanding, uh, participation the VM Ware Cloud Foundation. Then this fully software defined stack became a really interesting way for us to go in partner and show joint value to customers who are trying to basically get more speed the speed. We're gonna talk about a lot that today and then finally, the confirmation that we've opened up into storage systems, right? So there's certainly a hyper converged element of it. But now what we do with Nimble three Par and now I'm Era is a really interesting way for us to take the vehicle technology that we have and extend the common operating model. So really just interesting innovation for customers that take advantage of as they look to innovate themselves. >>Krista, from from a research standpoint, you know, we were really early in watching, you know, new models of building out storage. And we said, You know, the pendulum has swung back to pull it much closer to the compute you talked about. You've got a broad portfolio and compute. You know, synergy has some really interesting, you know, ways to be able to compose things and leverage software capabilities. So maybe give >>us a >>little bit of how HP differentiates in the market cause, you know, VM Ware does partner with lots of people. But you know what separates the's point solution? Everything else out in the market? >>Sure, and synergy is a great example, because what we're seeing is really, really high interest on on synergy with VCF. And the reason for that is because customers want a software to find infrastructure that they can compose, compute storage and networking as they need to to address any workload they have. And they want to do that with a partner like VM Ware and VCF. So what we see is customers choosing those two things together and building their hybrid cloud environments on those two. When I think of some of the customers that we have, I'll give you a specific example. So Banco Santander's one of the largest banking groups in the world. And they are really trying to drive innovation across all of their, um, locations there in North America, South America, Europe, Asia. They're trying to drive innovation across. They have a big project, and they selected Synergy and VCF and as a service green lake bottle to help them transform their business. And they're really excited because what they think this is providing to them is a reduced a data center space, reduced power consumption and reduce costs. And all of that with automation, more automation than they've had in the past. More flexibility than they've had in the past. >>Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up the Green Lake because you know, those as a service models. You know, Cloud obviously has been a big discussion for the last two years, Lee, Um, you know, VM Ware is no stranger to, you know, working in multi and hybrid environments. It gives a little bit about you know what you're hearing from your customers. You know, if you meant Green Lake, how does that fit in the overall? You know, VM Ware multi cloud offering. >>Well, you know, we all know these air uncertain times, right? and customers and uncertain times. We're looking for flexibility. How do they go? And basically, you know, invest smartly, right? Look to come out of uncertain times stronger. And what we're finding is that the flexibility, you know, starting it. You know, we're really impressed with this energy platform, by the way, the idea of being able to flexibly, configure, compute and storage to tie into external arrays from that end, to have the VM Ware Cloud Foundation is a unifying, software defined data center concept that's available on Prem and then extends into the hybrid cloud. This basic gives investment protection to customers who are looking for how to invest in. You know, you mentioned Green Lake as well, and I just mentioned that innovation on Green Lake is about true consumption based purchasing miles, if you will. And that's different than just a financial engineering aspect. I mean, that's real innovation and real technical innovation in terms of how customers can go in a why infrastructure at the time that they needed relative to that compelling business models, >>and I'll chime in their Teoh, I'll tell you a little story about when I first presented the green like model. At that time, it wasn't called Green Lake, but I presented it to a bunch of customers, about 100 customers in an advisory council. And I have never had so many people come up to me afterwards trying to figure out how they can get that for themselves as I did when I had that presentation. What really resonated with people is that they wanted to take advantage of the latest and greatest technologies, but they didn't have big budgets. And when they did take advantage of those technologies, one of the challenges has been growth. So when they need to expand, that's another procurement cycle. You have a way to have the standard all love with Green Lake. You actually have that added capacity on sites and then also painful what you use s so they were attracted to all of those things. And I feel like right now and the environment were in many people had big, big projects, things they want to do, and they may have planned those ah, a capital expenditure for that. But that money may not be there, So Green Lake is one of those things that can help overcome that challenge. And what we found is when people use green like we don't see many people. Um, go back. So what? I was talking to the green like team, and I said, You know what happens if they decide not to do Green Lake and they're kind of pause, and they're like, Well, we really haven't run into that very often. So it's very, very popular, and customers were really happy with it. >>Yeah. Talking about innovation and helping customers take advantage of new technologies. You know, maybe we'll start with you and Krista. Definitely want your but been a lot of feedback about V. Sphere seven. Of course, One of the big pieces of that is how, you know, cloud native container ization kubernetes It can be pulled into the, you know, the virtualization platform. So we're talking a lot about vcf Lee. That's the you know. Wait. Get it. The community's piece today. Tell us a little bit about that and what you hear from customers. And then Chris, I'd like to understand how that fits into the HP offering. >>Yeah, you know, the data we have shows that 95% of new applications are being developed on containers. Why? Because it's the speed of ill. And so at VM Ware, we've re architected V sphere for the first time that, you know in the last five years. And you look carefully at what the EMR integrates into the hyper visor because that's what we believe is going to be really benefiting from performance efficiency and management. And so we've integrated kubernetes directly into the hyper visor itself and then to our Tom's, a portfolio. Introduce an upstream compatible kubernetes development environment so that we have developer ready infrastructure. And that's really important because at the speed of new applications, basically you need to be able to respond quickly to those and what VM Ware has always offered right, which is a resilient underlying infrastructure with an intrinsic security model built in conceptually important when containers are being spun up more quickly. All right, mark quickly. They're being portable and portable across the hybrid cloud. Those models right mean that you need and convince you get value right from this integrated model that leverages all of the experience and knowledge that people have around how to run V Center and V Sphere so really exciting, and it's available in VCF for with >>I actually see the interest. I see customers asking about an enquiring about it. Vikan, you know, definitely second everything that we just said. I think you're really you're going to see a really fast transition over because there's so much value. Add it in. >>Excellent. Okay, Crystal, while I've got you on the compute piece, you know, legally said that 95% of application new applications are being built on container ization. How has that impacted architecture, er and how you're working with? >>Yeah. So what I find is that customers are very interested in containers. What we're doing is we're helping them from a services standpoint. A consulting standpoint of many of these customers are adopting for the first time trying to figure out how they could they could leverage containers in their environment. From our standpoint, it's making sure that we have the right platforms and we're advising and consulting and helping customers get there. >>Excellent, Lee. You know, Kristen talked about a sense and under one wondering if you've got any customer examples you like to share? >>Yeah. Great. One is ah, portion. I love the portion example. Just because portion, just the epitome of speed. And so the idea of this flexibility well, you're finding rate is the flexibility, right? Starting from, let's say, from a synergy, I'm flexible on the part of their allocation, right? And then, with VCF right now being able to be flexible across the hybrid cloud and now with VCF or with ponzu, the flexibility of introducing new modern applications support on Finally Layer and Green Lake On top of that which which is also using it, gives you this idea that you know, especially in uncertain times. But, you know, regardless, the changing business environment where everyone's responding, toe app, development rushers, timelines and innovation. We've got a really interesting model now for customers to invest responsibly and be able to respond quickly. >>Hm. Excellent. Crystal, I guess. Said the other pieces were at discover any updates on the portfolio expanding the VM solution. That >>Yeah. Yeah. So I'd like to talk a little bit about our pre validated synergy vcf solution stack with built in automation. So we literally got rid of hundreds of that's pre and post employment so we could speed deployment by five times. We were talking to point in hours instead of weeks. So we're really, really excited about that. We're working together to make sure we're making things easier for customers making that journey to a hybrid cloud very, very simple. So we're really happy to have, you know, offer that to customers. >>Great Lee, Any any final words you can share on the partnership? You >>know what I might say? It's right that the pace of innovation from our companies right is so great, Right? That really v vm Ware Cloud Foundation is a way, you know, in our joint effort and joint delivery rate is a way for customers to assimilate all of this innovation. So that day zero, it's guaranteed the work. And that day two, you can lifecycle manage all the individual components from a common sec manager interface. That's the value that we're bringing together today. Is that Listen, you know, putting all this in place conceived, daunting until the VM Ware Cloud Foundation, with synergy with all of the joint value we have basically makes it manageable so that you can go and basically stop looking down it infrastructure. Look up the ass. >>All right. Christine will let you have the final word and final takeaways from HP Discover. >>Okay, sure. Thanks. Together. What we're trying to do is simplify that journey to hybrid cloud. Make sure that customers can innovate faster, provide stable operations and reduce their costs. >>Well, Chris Stanley, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on the progress. Looking forward. Toa watching down the road. >>All right, thanks. >>Alright, Stay tuned for lots more coverage from the Cube, HP Discover 2020. Virtual experience on stew Minimum. Thanks for watching. Yeah, >>yeah, yeah, yeah.