>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's The Cube, covering Cisco Live 2018 brought to you by Cisco, NetApp and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live at Cisco 2018, Cisco Live 2018. It's The Cube live coverage here in Orlando, Florida. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman my co-host for the next three days of live coverage. Our next guest is Brooks Borcherding, president and CEO of LiveAction and Darren Kimura, chief strategist and vice chair from LiveAction, fresh off the heels of a great acquisition. Next generation monitoring, networking. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining us. It's good to see you again. >> Thank you, we're so glad to be here. >> So, love the action going on, literally, LiveAction with MNA activity. You guys got some good news happening around the company but also Cisco's event here really is perfectly poised for what you guys are doing. The CEO on stage literally saying to his army of customers, "This old way is now old. This is the new modern era." And really talking about what is multicloud, basically. So his entire army of customers are moving to next generation. So it intersects with what you guys are doing, so take a minute to talk about LiveAction and the news. >> Okay, so I think first of all, LiveAction, you know, we've always been known to be a leader in network management. We've worked very, very closely with Cisco for a dozen years and what we help companies do is take the complexity out of the management of their large networks. So that's been the core, fundamental, you know, value proposition that we've always delivered is how we simplified the network in these increasingly complex environments, right? So what's interesting now with this period of time is networks continue to become more and more complex. You have things like digital transformation, you have things like cloud and multicloud and hybrid cloud. You have things like software-defined networks. Each of them in their own right just makes the wide area that much more complex. >> And more endpoints every day. I think he threw a stat out, another couple hundred million endpoints are coming now. >> Right. >> So it's not ending. >> That's true and in that market transition it gives us a great opportunity because our core value proposition has always been simplifying the networks. Now that's even more essential than ever before. >> One of the critical problems that come out of that, obviously, is the tsunami of endpoints is one, we heard the security threats with encryption is another one. So, the need to instrument seems obvious but also it's almost overbearing, like, what do you do? How do you guys see the core problems that you're attacking? >> Why don't you take that? >> Well I think the big, what we're trying to do at Live Action is simplify the network. That's really at the core of everything we trying to do. And when we talk to our customers we understand from them that most times they might have four or ten different tools. So the first thing we're trying to do is figure out what are the biggest use cases and combine them all into one singular tool. And that's what we're producing at LiveAction, is the ability for you to see your entire network from end to end. East-west and north-south. So, as we take a look at things like the cloud environment, you know, what exactly is that, right? You know, is it north-south, is it east-west? It's all of the above. And what we're trying to do at LiveAction is have a Full Stack application that can basically provide visibility and analytics so you can understand all of it in one place. >> So any vector, no matter what it is. I mean, surely that makes sense with the perimeter gone. >> Yes. >> Security certainly has to have that baseline. >> Right. >> We'll give you a good example of that, is now with the whole software-defined network in what we're doing with SD Access, for example, but now we're going back into the data center and there's these complex terms around the overlay network and underlay network and logical and physical and it's becoming incredibly complex. We give the ability to actually see the flows, like, through those complex fabrics and that's an essential toolkit now because you need to be able to find out when there's an issue, where's that coming from, right? That is the, what is the source of that issue? How quickly can you identify that and how quickly can you then remediate it? >> Before you get there I want to follow up on that because one of the focus was here in DevOps side, is automation. If you can't see it, how do you know to automate it? >> Right. >> Does that come into the dialogue or is that? >> That is the dialogue for us here, so, we provide situational awareness. We hope for our end users to understand what's happening across their networks realtime. And then, you know, we work with Cisco, for example, hand in hand on the intent based network. So, being able to provide insights for, you know, the next generation of the products to be able to actually take action. >> Yeah, one of the things we've been watching in the networking space for many years is the use of analytics. And you recently made an acquisition that really ties into that space. Why don't you give us, what led to the acquisition? >> We did, so we had news on Friday and to be fair, I mean, Darren's been leading this charge for us for quite some time because we've been a NetFlow based solution for a long period of time, meaning that we can provide visualization for the devices that we have integrations with, essentially. There's a lot of devices that don't have NetFlow. So we couldn't actually capture them into our visualization engine. So what we did on Friday is we announced the acquisition of Savius, and Savvius is a packet capture and inspection technology company. Been around a long time, some very famous products with Omnipeek and Omnipliance, for example, that are consumed by thousands of customers. And now we're able to, with that appliance, actually tap into all sorts of devices, and suddenly propagate all of that into our visualization engine. So it opens up a dramatically larger and restful opportunity for us and we're kind of defining this to be the next generation of networks and ports management because no one else is doing this visualization across that scope of devices like we are. >> Your observation space is massive now. >> It is. >> Yeah, Darren, I wonder if you'd follow up that 'cause one of the big questions I had coming in to this is, if I'm a networking person, what about all that networking that I don't control anymore that I'm on the hook for it. So, you know, we actually, the network here went down even for a few minutes and we're like, we're here at Cisco Live with, you know, probably the largest single concentration of network people and wireless experts and the like, so, yeah. >> Yeah, so one of the things that we're trying to do now is we're trying to capture all data from basically all endpoints. Whether it be a client to a server, a VM container, doesn't matter what it is. We wanna see it all, we wanna get it from the granular, most granular packet level all the way up, but take all of that data and make it simple for people to understand. You put it on a simple UI, understand a very simple workflow so that they can automatically associate problem or good network behaviors right there on screen without having to, you know, go through the 5,000 page Cisco manual and really understand what exactly is going on. >> Okay. >> I think what's important about that is how quickly can you identify the source of the issue? That's really where we come into play. We talk a lot, even these days, about MTTR, meantime to resolution, that continues to be an essential, kind of, metric that people measure. But what's more important to that even is the initial diagnostic. So, is it the network? Is it, you know, something at the edge of the network? Is it the service provider? You know, where in the network does this happen? And by being able to provide that essential information to the first point of contact it really does help extradite and accelerate the entire process. >> Huge acceleration. Darren, I wanna ask you a point about, sorry Stu, to interrupt but on the acquisition, help the customers that you had on one side understand the benefits of the NetFlow integrations and the NetFlow customers understand the new benefits. What is the customer's orientation? What should they do, I mean, how should they understand the new Live Action? >> Yeah, so what we've added on is the ability to diagnose at a significantly deeper level. So, one of the things LiveAction has always been really good at is voice and video, but we do it at a NetFlow level. So, the problem is, when we try to get down to the very granular level, you know, what exactly is going on? Where is it happening? We were blind to that, frankly. Now, with the packet capture technology we can actually go all the way down and capture down to the millisecond and be able to look back over time and understand exactly where the problem occurred. And that allows our users to actually go in and fix it once and for all. >> And what are they solving with that problem? More point problems, solution resolution? Routing, policy, where does the value live? >> It's all of it, it's all of it. Understand where the packets are dropped. Understand we get down to deep packet inspection, so understanding applications and users and who really is having the problem and why. >> Fake news, maybe? Gonna help us identify fake news out there? >> (laughs) Um, I hadn't thought about that yet. >> And the Russian packet. (laughs) (laughing) >> We've been talking in the network the surface area has continued to grow as we push out to the edge, we push out to SAS, push out to public clouds. How's that impacting you and your customers? >> It's, so, we're definitely trying to stay ahead of that with a few things that we've done recently. So, one of them is, for example, we now have an agent that we can deploy onto servers and workstations in mass quantities so you can now get those, kind of, those elements to be fed into your visualization network as well. We also have the ability to deploy that type of concept into the cloud and into SAS applications so we can then get a pulse coming from them. And so we're starting to correlate all of that together into the same type of workflow. >> Yep. >> Guys, take a minute to talk about your relationship with Cisco. Obviously we're here at Cisco Live, their show, they've got their priorities pretty laid out, they've got a lot of work to do and we heard the CEO talk about some of the pressure they're under with the security alone. I mean, they're running huge networks, networks are changing, what are you guys doing next now that you've got your acquisition papered up and you gotta do some, you know, quick integrations and roll out the integrations. How are you taking that to the next level with Cisco? What are some of the things on your radar, on your horizon, that you can share? >> Well, I think we work so closely with Cisco and the Cisco Enterprise networking team that we're often, you know, looking ahead of the curb as far as where we want to develop and invest in next. For example, you see that with the way we're prototyping the SD Access and Cat9k management. So, we did that in Barcelona, actually, about six months ago. So we were the first out with that. We're doing the exact same thing now with DNA Center and with integration with DNA Center. So, they're able to, like, talk about how LiveAction as a third party is integrating into their framework and extending that framework out for a lot of new innovation. >> Your strategy is to go deep with Cisco. You go down as deep as you can, get everyone geared out on the engineering side. You're nodding your head, yeah. >> Absolutely, that's been our strategy since day one. It's been an awesome partnership for us. I think we've been able to bring, you know, a different point of view and also provide validation, you know, a third party perspective for the end user to understand and have confidence on what exactly the network is doing. >> You know, I get this all the time, entrepreneurs in Silicone Valley always ask me about Cisco and Cisco's had a sustained track record of letting partners take big white spaces. To them it's a white space, to a company it's a, you know, it's an IPO potential, so this is a Cisco thing, talk about that dynamic, 'cause you guys seem to be really solving a big problem and they're happy with it. >> Oh, I think what we've, to your point about white space, I think what LiveAction has been able to really effectively do is be a strong partner to complement the solution that Cisco is already putting out there. So as Brooks had mentioned, you know, in our past we worked very closely with the Cisco Prime team and we brought in things like visualization, for example, quality of service configuration, and as the infrastructure began to, I guess, change over time, you know, through ILAN and now into Viptela, you know, we bring the same kind of ideas. We bring the same posture to the party, if you will, meaning that we try to make it, we try to understand what Cisco Product Management is doing and bring what we do best, the situation awareness, visibility, action ability to that. >> Alright, one of my final questions is, bumper sticker the bottom line for your customers. With the acquisition on Friday, with what you guys going on at Cisco, what's the bottom line for your customers? What are they gonna see? What's the immediate headline for the customer? >> So we've, you know, we've adopted this tagline of defining the next generation of network management, and we think we have a very unique position in defining where that market is going now with the acquisition of Savvius and what we're doing with the ability to visualize all of these different elements. There really isn't anybody out there that's doing anything close to that as far as how we're making it easy to manage increasingly complex networks. It's as simple as that, you know, we've had great conversations here already with many of some of the largest companies in the world and what they're looking for is, I need help, you know, I need help to simplify, right? >> And run at a high level. >> That's right, to kind of deliver the service levels that I'm expected to hold to my, you know, to my Fortune 500 type of enterprise, I need better tools to help me cope with this increasing complexity. >> Alright, Brooks and Darren, I'll put you on the spot with the last question. We're at day one of Cisco Live, what's they big story you see emerging? I know it's day one, we've got two more days, but you can almost see the smoke screen going, the signal's there, what is the top story coming out of Cisco Live 2018, in your opinion? >> I still see software-defined WAN as being massive. I think that, I think I stole his answer. (laughs) But, you know, it's been a topic for such a long time but now we're seeing the implementations happen and it's so exciting because, you know, it's actually bringing real change to networking, something we haven't seen in 10 plus years. >> What's different about SD WAN than the promises were, say, five years ago? That's happening now? >> Well I think now people are actually monetizing them. So now it's enterprise ready, I think Cisco led the whole industry a step forward with the acquisition of Viptela and increased, kind of, the pace of that, of the maturity of those offerings. And now that it's six months in they're being adopted at scale, you have a lot of reference cases now that people are using it, they're getting, deriving the monetary benefit from it, you know, they're taking a step into software-defined and we're kind of in that mainstream adoption phase, is what I would say right now. >> Thanks so much for sharing, great commentary. Congratulations on the success, the new acquisition and the continued integration deep with Cisco. >> Thank you. >> You know, good stuff pays off. Of course, we're here with all the live action coverage. Both LiveAction company and also the live Cube action here at Cisco Live 2018 here. Stay with us, three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back after this short break. >> Thank you, gentlemen.

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Everyone, welcome back. It's theCUBE's exclusive coverage, here in Orlando, Florida for Cisco Live 2018. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Stu, this is a wrap-up of the show. This is day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. And, I got to say, I'm surprised at how it's evolved, and the clarity of what's happening is coming into focus. We had a great kickoff, I thought, on day one. I thought we laid it out and kind of predicted and connected the dots on what was going to happen. But some kind of new white spaces were filled in. I want to get your thoughts on it. One, DevNet's success with the number of developers. Clearly a number success. But what's really interesting, after watching all the activity here at DevNet, talking to people in the hallways, is that DevNet is changing the face of Cisco. Because Cisco has an energy and an openness now, that's bringing the momentum and success and proven success of open store software to the networking layer, engaging and energizing the core base of the Cisco constituent, which is the customers, the network engineer, and allowing a path to cloud-native, a path to multi-cloud, and a path to innovation. I mean this is the story, in my opinion, at this event. There are some announcements, certainly, that tie into it, but the notion of what DevNet and DevNet Create are proving, besides being good execution by Susie Wee and the team, is that this is a tell sign that the programmable network is at a seminal moment where, like the iPhone was in 2007, that changed telephony, and created apps, the network is now programmable. New things are going to happen. This is, to me, the biggest story here at DevNet. >> Yeah, and John, in case somebody just listened to our wrap and hadn't heard the three days of coverage here, that number is 500,000. It was up, Chuck Robbins announced it on stage on day one here on Monday. 500,000 developers registered. By the way, Susie said we'd actually, we kept having to scrub the list and bring it down, so we had 300,000, it went down a little bit. She's like, "Are we still growing?" Now the momentum continues, so they're growing. But, you're right John, we've done two of these Cisco Lives. You and I did the Barcelona show and we did this show. And what's been crystallizing, what I learn and, in processing here that actually excites me, is I'm a networking guy, and so many waves that these technologies, remember it was like, "Oh ethernet fabrics are going to change everything", "SDN will totally revolutionize everything." I kind of looked and things and I was like, "You know, we're fixing networking problems, and how do I tie that to the business. Oh, I need to be more agile and I need to move faster." The punchline to what does it matter, this intent-based networking, which it's kind of a wonky term, but really we're building new applications, where the network is how we do that. It's built for microservices, it's this modern environment. And I have to have this DevNet ecosystem to enable it. Because it can't just be I manage my switch and I'm going and okay, I download software and I do some things over here. This is the career path for all of the people that, you know, the 25 years of CCIEs that we had, we've had this huge line next to us here, of everybody's getting their badges and they've got their area where they've got a little bit of special treatment of those CCIEs; there's an army of them and that's been Cisco's strength and can they take that army and get them ready for the new guerrilla warfare that is this modern application building and John, you know, how many times do people say, you know networking, they're just a bunch of plumbers, sitting down in there, wiring closet, they'll be left behind. >> Yeah, and this is the false narrative and that's absolutely the case. There definitely was a lull there. If you look at Cisco and what's going on in the networking world, we've talked. This is our ninth year with theCUBE, so you and I have pontificated and riffed many times about "the network's a bottleneck", and it's always the network, everything comes down to the network, which is why the network guys have always been the most powerful in companies. But here's what's happening here, the gestation period of SDN is an interesting dynamic. So here's what I think no one's yet reported. I think this is the real story. The SDN has been incubating and gestating now for what, four years, give or take, roughly? So SDN's embedded in at the network layer, the network's getting smarter. Then you've got the cloud scale happening, and you've got security issues in cyber, you've got cloud scale in the public cloud accelerating, the valuation of things, this costs this per minute. So, creating the economic kind of disruption. Then you have the Kubernetes on the scene, taking docker containers, making it a global container, it's not just docker, all containers generically as a key vehicle for wrapping around legacy. And it was Kubernetes, and now with Service Mesh on the horizon, there is a clear, visible path to the value creation. Combine that with the continuing explosion of open-source. Open-source has proven that the way to run things in the open is exactly how DevNet's doing it. So, all these things are elements that have just come together at a perfect time, and Cisco is taking advantage of it. And we were critical of Cisco at Barcelona by saying, they'd be crazy not to double down on this. I would quadruple down on it, it's proven. Not, "we own the network, you got to go through us", Blockchain, I sat in the blockchain session today. The central authority model in communities is flattening, this is the new normal. I think Cisco has lightning in a bottle here. Let's see what they do with it, Stu. I don't know what your reaction to that is, but they have an opportunity to make the network programmable, energize their base, it's just really exciting, I got to say. If I worked at Cisco, I would be all over the DevNet, the DevNet Create, get in the cloud scale, and ride that wave. >> Look, John, Cisco has been dominant in networking so long, that there's been so many waves hitting against it, said we were going to overtake Cisco. Open networking is one of those big waves. I've been to many conferences, I know a lot of the companies we've interviewed on theCUBE, many of the companies that are going to go take a chunk out of the monolith that was Cisco. Well, Cisco, you know, they're not deaf, they're listening-- >> They're disrupting themselves. >> They are disrupting themselves, and especially, you know, the line I heard for years was, you know, Cisco was the standard, it's like, oh, well, you know, they're dominating at the standards bodies and trying to push their way through. Well, they've got the customers. And they've got an ecosystem, and while they've invested in open source over the years, and we've talked to many of them, this DevNet activity has really pushed along, and is impressive. Doesn't mean that there aren't some pockets where other people are more advanced with the technology, you know, you can always have the debates as to who is more open than the others, which, you know, you and I have gone down many times, but it is impressive to see how Cisco is changing, what's here, the excitement has been palpable. And it's not just, you know, it's an infrastructure show, it's a networking show, when you and I interviewed Rowan Trollope at the Barcelona show, it's Cisco of the future is a software company, and they are making progress. If you give a little bit of a nudge as to, you know, what they didn't have, it's like, there weren't a ton of announcements, but the ones that they were, they were talking about the progress they've made, the DNA center-- >> Look, if you want to look for critiquing, I mean, you can look anywhere in anyone's life and find faults. There's plenty of things that Cisco's not advanced on, but time is on their side. They don't have to have big-doubt Istio version running on switches, that's coming down the road. They can work with Kubernetes, we saw some great demos in here. So I think time is a good friend for them right now, but they're doing all the right things, so again, it's an opportunity. The other thing I've noticed with the DevNet and the DevNet Create and all of our CUBE coverage, Stu, you know, I've been looking at theCUBE data, the SiliconANGLE, Wikibon data, and a new kind of persona personality is emerging, in, at least in our audience, that kind of is a tell sign to innovation. One, developers are kind of forming two lines of developers. Developers-- well, there's three. Classic developers, who just geek out and program. But two new personas. Business-oriented developers, who are being pulled to the front lines, who are dealing with issues like Capex, Opex, digital transformation. And we're seeing that, people who don't want to get an MBA, but they want to learn business. The other new category that I see developing here at DevNet is the entrepreneurial developer. This is the developer that has all the same attributes that someone starting a company would have. They're resourceful, they're looking at connecting the dots outside the box, they're using their creativity to identify using software to solve problems in the network. So, this is kind of interesting, because those are the ones that are going to jump on the grenades, take the chances, and they're inside the company. So this is going to be a wealth creation opportunity for the networking, because the networking is, right now, been waiting for the network to be scalable and programmable, we've been saying it for how many years. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, boy, John, you know, we lived through, I've said it many times on theCUBE. The decade of making networking work properly in a virtualized environment was kind of painful. When we look at containerization, what's happening to the cloud data space, I think networking understands the networking ecosystem, and especially Cisco, knows what they went through before, and they are attacking the space, and going at it hard to try and make sure that they, you know, get on this next wave, win some mine share, and you know, don't lose these customers. Because, John, something we've said many times is, right now, is probably the ripest time for customers to say, "You know, I've trusted and used this company for a really long time, but it's okay for me to try new things." And therefore, Cisco with its massive-- >> They got to try new things. >> Could be disrupted, if they don't try really hard. >> The customers have to try new things, Stu, that's definitely the case. Okay, let's get into some of the landscape issues. We saw a lot of startups come on, growing startups, so the question is will they be the M&A in the future of Cisco? But we had IBM on, we had NetApp on, Avi Networks, a lot of companies. We also saw Cohesity score a huge round of funding, 250 million dollars. We haven't seen a lot of venture-backed activity, here at the show, we've seen a lot of VC announcements, but you know, the big round for Cohesity crystallizes the competitive landscape. Your thoughts, you got the big players like IBM doing great with storage, Cloudify, NetApp with FlexPod, doing very well with the cloud. I mean, is the tide rising, where everyone's floating, and this is a lot of the competitive? And if so, is the scale attainable for the startups, or will they have to bought by the big players? Your thoughts. >> Well, John, to go back, we were just talking about DevNet, I actually feel like Cisco's pulling some of their ecosystem along. The storage-networking interactions isn't the most exciting thing in the world, and I spent ten years living in these environments. I mean, you know, storage-networking doesn't exactly get most people excited, but it is one of the fundamental things, it needs to make your environment work. Every time you did a bank transaction, or you know, bought a plane ticket, probably that was your storage and the networking underlied that, making that work. >> So what's your point, the ecosystem is going to grow, or? >> The ecosystem is following Cisco's lead, and getting involved in developer and cloud-native activity. So we're not just talking about boxes anymore. That wave towards software. NetApp, really nice story, as to how they fit into the multi-cloud environment. You know, they kind of rode down on the box trend, and as they really focused back on their core, which has always been software, they're making some strong moves there. You mentioned two of the vendors we had on, Cohesity and Avi Networks, both of them, part of their funding is from Cisco. So, you know, Cisco investing in some of the hot areas, you know, Cohesity, data protection-- >> Don't forget LiveAction was bought last Friday, their aperture in the market goes up, so we're seeing the partner network, really interesting dynamic. We're growing, we're going to see more people come in, what's your vision on this? >> No, the ecosystem's very dynamic. So, really good show floor here, you can feel the energy when you walk through this place and you go see what's happening. Big ecosystem, it showed. By the way, we didn't say it on the intro, but the number I heard was 26,000, which, this is a good size show. Bigger than a VN World, smaller than an AWS reinvent. But you know, really, much more, it's not-- >> It was my first time, it was my first show, at Cisco Live in North America. I got to say, I wasn't expecting the show floor to be that good. I mean, I was like, okay, Cisco, we have the vendors out there, partners, you know, a lot of people, you know, typical enterprise show. I was blown away, blown away by the energy of the future of creating value. I mean, the stories, it wasn't just people mailing it in. These real, compelling use cases of cloud scale. Not just selling boxes, Stu. >> Yeah, and John, you know, talk about community. You know, you and I both have a lot of networking DNA in our backgrounds. I love this community, it's people that, they love to collaborate, they love to share, they love to dig in. Lots of bloggers, there was a big podcasting going on. We brought some of those people on the program, and I loved, some of them are working for cool new startups. They're doing coding, they're doing developer activity. A section of this felt a lot like a KubeCon, or even, you know, some of the AWS and Google kind of mojo that we see at the cloud show. Which, I enjoyed Barcelona, but that was my critique, they're not as in that multi-cloud world. They were talking about it, but they're kind of stuck in this transition. It's not like they're fully there. Cisco still sells a lot of kit, and everybody makes money too. But we know this transition's going to take a long time. >> Chuck Robbins said at the keynote, that there'd be no cloud without networking. Networking and cloud people have a symbiotic relationship because networking people are inherently smart. You may argue, someone sitting at a desk, you know, doing networks, some of them have different personas inside that, but most of them are pretty smart, right. Networking people aren't dumbasses, generally speaking. The cloud people are innovating on the app side with the scale piece, also smart people, so when you get networking people with cloud, I just see a nice fit there, and I think, Kubernetes, and the Istio, and the service mesh, I think that's where it connects, because if you're a networking guy, using Ansible, using Python, you're going to naturally gravitate towards Kubernetes. It's the same concept. So, I'm watching that very closely, I think you and I have been talking about this at Linux Foundation, that's going to be the tell sign. If the network engineers can adopt the Kubernetes concept, and take the service mesh to the next level, that, to me, is going to be a tell sign. >> Yeah, and John, you know, we go to a lot of shows, we've got some really smart people who came on the program, we're a bit of intellectual snobs sometimes, and when we come on this program-- >> Speak for yourself, Stu. (laughs) >> No, I mean we love to talk to smart people. As I always say, John, if I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room. And I'm really excited, most of the time we're on theCUBE, we bring some really smart and interesting people on. >> Alright, let's wrap this up. Obviously the big story is DevNet. I think the community approach is great. Christine Heckart came on, she's the new senior executive, just started at Cisco. When we were at Barcelona, we saw her there. She saw DevNet, kind of a fresh eyes in Cisco, what impressed me about my observing her, on theCUBE and then watching her walk around was, she's fresh eyes. She's been in the industry, her eyes were lighting up. She sees DevNet, she understands. She came on and talked about network effects. Stu, our business is community-driven, theCUBE is very community-oriented with the content, we have network effects in our business. And I think she hit on something that I think is the next conversation point, is, the network effects is a technical and business dynamic and I think she's got her hands on a very successful narrative around where the value will go, and then when the engineering and the business come together to create value. I think DevNet has done the right thing with the open-source model, being welcoming, not elite. And I think that is worth noting. >> Yeah, and a lot of hard work went into reaching where we are with DevNet today. I love, we dug in with Susie, with Mandy. One of the interviews I did, John Apostolopoulos. You know, he's one of the ones in the labs inside of Cisco. So, it took, he walked me through, John, you know, the basically five years that led to this new DNA solution that we had. We of course had some great VIPs on the program, like Lynn Lucas, the CMO of Cohesity, Lee Howard, and of course, Zoginsash himself, Eric Herzog, who, both of those gentlemen, when you walked around this show, they are everywhere. They're plastered on the screen before the keynote, they're walking around and talking to them, so we love, as part of our community, to get to talk to those as well as, you know, all different aspects in our about 30 interviews we did this week. >> Well, we're looking forward to more coverage, Stu, I want to thank you for great coverage, thank the guys here, we're going to be going and covering Cisco like a blanket, we're going to hit all their events, Cisco Lives in Barcelona and the US. We'll continue, got a great thing going on here with the DevNet and the DevNet Create events, look for those. Check out thecube.net for theCUBE schedule. But I also want to put a shout-out for the sponsors, if it wasn't for sponsors, we wouldn't be able to bring the great crew here. Want to thank NetApp as the headline sponsor. NetApp's FlexPod, great stuff, check it out, those guys got a new mojo going on with cloud, and on premise really creating a software model. And also, Cisco, IBM, LiveAction, and Avi Networks. Thanks so much for that community support, that sends a signal that you're investing in the codevelopment of content, it's great stuff. >> And John, yeah, actually, Cohesity and Presidio helping round that up, John. One of the highlights of the show had to be the Ludacris party. >> Yep, Cohesity's new funding, great concert. >> 250 million dollars, it's a ludicrous round. >> (laughs) Stu Miniman with his own meme. Thanks for watching, we are here at Cisco Live, that's a wrap-up for the show here on day three, I'm John here with Stu Miniman, thanks for watching. (electronic music)