(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE special presentation of Unstoppable Domains Partner Showcase. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We've got a great conversation talking about the future of the infrastructure of Web3, all around domains, non fungible tokens and more. Two great guests, Charlie Brooks with Business Development of Unstoppable Domains, and Michael Williams, Product Leader and Advisor with Unstoppable Domains. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE, Partner Showcase with Unstoppable Domains. >> Thanks John, excited to be here. >> So I love what you guys are doing. Congratulations on all your success. You guys are on the leading edge of what is a major infrastructure. Shift to Web3 is being called, but people who have been doing this for a while know that you see the blockchain, you see decentralization, you see immutability all these future smart contracts. All the decentralized applications are now hitting the scene and NFTs are super hot as you can imagine, you guys in the middle of it. So you guys are in the sweet spot of what I call the Pragmatic pioneers. You guys are the building solutions that are making a difference, like single sign-on you have the login product, let's get into it. What is the path to a digital identity beyond the web? 'Cause we know what web identity is. But now that the web is being abstracted a away by this new Web3 layer, what is digital identity? >> I can take that one. So I think what we're really seeing is this transition away from a purely physical identity. Where your online identity is really just a reflection of the parts of your physical identity. Where you live, where you go to school, all of these things. And we're really seeing this world emerge where your online identity becomes much more of a primary. So if you have a way that you represent yourself in the online world, whether that's an Instagram account, or TikTok, or email address or username, all of these things together make up your digital identity. So congrats, if you have any of those things, you already have one. >> We see that all the time with Linktree, people put their Linktree out there and it's got the zillion handles. We all get up to Instagram. Everyone's got like zillion identities. Is that a problem or an opportunity? >> I think it's just a reality. The fact is our identities are spread across all of these different services and platforms that we use. The problem with something like Linktree is that it is owned by Linktree. If I won the lottery, purchased Linktree and decided I wanted to change your personal website, John, I could easily do that. Moving to the architecture that we have and NFT architecture, changes that significantly. It puts a lot of power back in the hands of the people who actually own those identities. I do a lot of CUBE showcases with folks around talking about machine learning and AI, and the number one conversation that they bring up, the number one issue, is data. And they say, when data's siloed and protected and owned, it is not optimized for machine learning. So I can almost imagine, as you bring NFTs to the digital identity, you mentioned you don't own your identity if someone else is managing the service like Linktree. This is a cultural shift, and infrastructure software shift at the same time. Can you guys expand more about what you guys are doing with the NFT and unstoppable domains with respect to that digital identity, because is that power shifting to the users now? And how does that compare to what's out there today? >> Sure, I think so. Our domains are NFTs, so they are ERC 721 tokens. And if you think about in the past Web2 identities are controlled by the platforms that we use. Twitter, Facebook, whatnot. There's really a lack of data portability there. Our accounts and data live on their servers, they can be deleted any time. So using an NFT to anchor your data identity, really gives you full control over your identity. It can't be deleted, it can't be revoked or edited, or changed without your permission. And really even better, the information you store on your entity domain can be plugged into the services you use, so that you never have to enter the same data twice. So when you go from platform to platform, everything can be tied to your existing domain. You're not going to a new site, entering their ecosystem and providing all this information time and time again, and not really having a clear understanding of how your data's being used and where it's being stored. >> So the innovation here is the NFT is your identity. And a non fungible token NFT is different than say a fungible token. So for the folks out there that's trying to follow the bouncing ball, Michael, what's the difference between an NFT and a fungible token? And why is that important for identity? >> My favorite metaphor here is baseball cards versus dollar bills. So a dollar bill is fungible. If I have a dollar and you have a dollar, we can trade dollars and none of us is richer or poorer. If I have a Babe Ruth and you have a Hank Aaron, and we swap baseball cards, we have changed something fundamental. So the important thing about NFTs is that they are non fungible. So if I have a domain and you have a domain, like I have that identity and you have that identity, they are unique, they're independent, they're owned by each one of us, and then we can't swap them interchangeably. >> And that's why you're seeing NFTs hot with art and artists, because it's like a property. It's a property issue, not so much- >> Absolutely >> Interchangeable or divisible kind of asset. >> Yep, it is ownership rights in digital form, yes. >> All right, so now let's get into what the identity piece. I think find that interesting because if I have something that's an NFT, it's non fungible, it's unique to me, it's property, my property my login, this sounds compelling. So how does login work with the NFT? Can you guys take us through that architecture, what does it do? How does it work? And what's the benefit? >> Good, so the way our login product works is it effectively uses your NFT domain. So Michael.crypto, for example, as the authentication piece of a login session. So basically when I go and I try to log in with my domain, I type in Michael.crypto, I sign it with my wallet which cryptographically proves that I am this human, this is me, I have the rights to log in. And then when I do so, I have the ability to share certain parts of my identity information with the applications that I use. So it really blends the ease of use from Web2 of just a standard like login with Gmail, SSO experience, with all of the security and privacy benefits of Web3. >> How important is single sign-on? Because right now people are used to seeing things like log with your GitHub handle or LinkedIn, or Google, Apple. You seeing people offering login. What's the difference here from those solutions and why does it make sense for the user? >> Sure, the big difference is what we're building is really user first. So if you think about traditional SSOs, you are the product. When you use their product, they're selling your data, they're tracking everything you do. Login with unstoppable handles not only authentication, but data sharing as well. So when you log in a domain owner can choose to share aspects of their online identities, such as first name, preferred language, profile picture, location. So this is a user controlled way of using a sign-on where their permissioning these different of their identity. And really apps can use this information to enable new experiences, such as, for example, website might automatically enable high contrast mode for someone visually impaired. It could pre-populate your friends from a decentralized social graph. So, what we're doing is taking the best parts of Web2 SSO and combining them with the best of Web3. So, no more losing your password, entering in the same data hundreds of times depending on other services to keep your information safe. Login with unstoppable really puts you in complete control of your data. And a big part of that is you're not going to have 80 plus usernames and passwords anymore. We have these tools like password managers that exist to put a bandaid on this issue, but it's not really a long term solution. So what we're building is really seamless onboarding where everything can be tied to your domains so that you can navigate to different apps in a much more seamless way. >> Michael, I got to get your thoughts on this because in the product side, it's interesting, my mind's connecting some dots. If I have first of all, great convenience to reduce all those logins. So, check their little pain reduction. But when you just think about what's different, I can now broker my data as well as login. So let's just say, hypothetically, I'm cruising around some dApps and I'm doing things in earning reputation, or attention, or points, or whatever utility tokens. There could be a way for me to control what I own. I'm the product, I own the data. Is that where this is going? >> I think it's definitely a direction it could go, say, for example, if I'm a e-commerce platform and I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to place a new billboard. One of the things that I could request from a user, is their address. I can figure out where they live, what city they're in, that will help inform me the decision that I need to make as a business. And in return, maybe I give that person a dollar off their purchase. We can start to build a stronger relationship between the applications that people use, and the people that use them. And try to optimize that whole experience, and try to just transfer information back and forth to make everyone's lives better. >> What's the roadmap on the business side Charlie, when you see companies adopting it, they're probably taking babies steps they're crawling before they walk, they're walking before they run. I can see decentralized applications in the future where there's FinTech or whatever, having new kinds of marketplaces that take advantage of the paradigm where the script flips to the user first. Okay, so I see that. How do people get started now? What are some of the success momentum points that you're seeing companies do now with unstoppable? >> Sure, so a lot of Web3 apps are very sensitive about respecting the information that their users are providing. So, what we're doing is offering different ways for apps can touch with their users in a way that is user controlled. So, an example there is that a lot of Web3 companies will use WalletConnect to allow users to log in using a wallet address. An issue there is that one person can have hundreds of wallet addresses, and it's impossible for the app to understand that. So, what we do is we use login, we attach an email address, some other pieces to a wallet address so that we can identify who our unique user is. And the app is able to collect that information, they don't have to deal with passwords or PII storage. They have access to a huge amount of new data for an improved UX. It's really simple to maintain as well. So one example there is if you are a DeFi platform and you want to reward your users for coming to their site for the first time, now that they can identify unique user, they can drop a token into that user's wallet. All because they're able to identify that user as unique. So they have a better way of understanding their customers. They enable their customers to share data. A lot of these companies will ask users to follow them on Twitter or Discord when they need to provide updates or bug bounties, all these different things. And login if unstoppable lets them permission email addresses so they can collect emails if they want to do a newsletter. And instead of harvesting data from elsewhere and forcing people to join this newsletter program, it's all user controlled. So each user saying, yes, you can use my email for your newsletter. I'm supporting your project, I want to be kept up to date with bugs or bounties or rewards programs. So really it's just a better way for users to share the data that they're willing to with dAPPs, and dAPPs can use it to create all sorts of incentives and really just understand their users on a different level. >> How is the development Michael, going on the smart contract side of the business? Ethereum has always been heralded as being very developer focused. There's been created innovations, you still got gas fees out there. You still got to do some things. How is the development environment? How are the applications coming? 'Cause I can see the flywheel kicking in as the developer front gets more streamlined, more efficient. And now you got the identity piece nailed down. I just see a lot of dominoes falling at the same time. What's the status on the DEV side. What you're doing. >> Good. The fascinating thing about crypto is how quickly it changes. When I joined Ethereum there was pretty reasonable still for transactions. It was very cheap to get things done very fast. With a look at last summer that things went completely out of control. This is a big reason that unstoppable for a long time has been working on a layer two. And we've moved over to the polygon as our primary source of record, which is built on top of Ethereum. Of course, I think saved well over a hundred million in gas fees for our users. We're constantly keeping an eye on new technologies that are emerging, weighing how we can incorporate those things. And really where of this industry is going to take us. In many ways we are just as much passengers as the other people floating around the ecosystem as well. >> It's certainly getting faster every day, I'm seeing a huge uptake on Ethereum. I heard a stat that most people at the university of California, Berkeley, 30% of the computer science students are dropping out to join Web3 companies. This goes to show you this cultural shift and you're going to see a lot more companies getting involved. So I got to ask you Charlie, on the BizDev front, how are companies getting started? What's the playbook? Are they putting their toe in the water? They jumping in full throttle? What's the roadmap? What's the best practice for people to get started with unstoppable? >> Absolutely. We're lucky that we get a lot of inbound interest from companies Web2 and Web3, because they first want to secure their domains. And we do a ton of work on the back end to protect trademark domains. We want to avoid squatting as much as possible. We don't think that's the spirit of Web3 at all. And certainly not what the original tension of the internet was. So, fair amount of companies will reach out to us to get their domain. And then we can have a longer conversation about some of the other integrations and ways we can collaborate. So certainly visiting our website, unstoppabledomains.com is a great starting point. We have an app submission page where apps can reach out to us, even request a grant. We have a grant program to help developers get started, provide them some resources to work with us and integrate some of our technology. We have great documentation as well on the site. So you can read all about what it takes to resolve domains, if you're a wallet and an exchange, as well as what it takes to integrate login with unstoppable, which is actually a super easy integration as well, which we're really excited about. So yeah, I'd say check out the website, apply for a grant if you think you're a fit there, then of course, people can always reach out to me directly on Twitter, on Telegram, email. We're very reachable and we're always happy to chat with projects and learn more about what they're doing. >> What's the coolest thing you see going on Charlie, with your partners right now? What's the number one use case that's cool that people are jumping on right now to get in and get some success out of the gate? >> Maybe GameFi play to earn is huge. It's blowing up and the gaming community is really passionate, vibrant, just expanding like crazy. Same with DeFi, there's all this cool new stuff you can do with DeFi where no matter how big your portfolio is, you're able to stake and use all these interesting tools to grow your book. So it's super exciting to see and talk to all these projects. And, there's certainly an energy in the community where everyone wants to onboard the general public to Web3. So we're all working on these school projects, but we need everyone to come over from Web2, understand the advantages of DeFi, of GameFi of having an entity domain. So, I'm lucky that I'm one of the first layers there of meeting new projects and helping get access to more users so that they can grow along with us. >> I remember the early days of Bitcoin and Ethereum, we were giving it away. The community mantra was, give a Bitcoin to someone. That was like, >> Right. >> When you can actually give a Bitcoin to someone. What's the word of mouth or organic viral? I won't say growth hack 'cause that's got negative connotations. But what's the community's way of putting forth the mission for unstoppable? Is it just more domains? You guys have any programs got going on? Is it give it away? Obviously you can get domains on your site, but what's the way to get people ingratiated in and getting comfortable? >> So much of what we do is really to solve that question, answer that question. We spend a ton of time and energy just on education and whether that's specifically around domains or just general Web3. We have a podcast which is pretty exceptional, which talks to Web3 leaders from across the space and makes the project that they're working on more accessible. I think we passed over a hundred episodes, not too long ago. There's a ton of stuff that we do that other people do. If anyone has questions, I'm happy to talk about our resources, of course. >> The pod, I think you guys are up to 117, but that's a deep dive. You guys go deep on the podcast. So that's where you go in. What else is new on digital identity? Where do you guys see the future going? Now that you get the baseline identity with the NFT. Makes a lot of sense, create innovation. Good logic, makes sense. Solid technically, what's next? >> I think this really boils down to the way that the internet has grown. Doesn't really feel like the way that the internet should be. Like our data shouldn't live in these wild gardens, controlled by these large companies. Ultimately people should be responsible for their own identities. They should have control over of things that they do online. The data that's shared, the benefit of that data. It's about the world that we are working towards, is very much that. Where we are giving people the ability to be paid for sharing their data with companies. We're giving applications the ability to request information from the people that use those applications to improve their experience. We're really just trying to make connections across the ecosystem through these products, to enable a better experience for everyone. So whether that's the use cases that I mentioned already, or maybe viewing reviews on something like Yelp or Amazon, that just confirm that the person that you are you're looking at is actually a real person, not some bot that's been paid to load a review. The interesting thing about these products is they're so universally applicable. There are so many different ways that we can try to plug them in. So we are- >> A bots is a great example, double-edged sword. You can have a metaverse image and have pre-programmed conversations with liquid audio and the video application. Or it's a real person. How do you know the difference? These are going to be questions around who solves that problem. Now there's time for bots and there's a time not for bots. We all know what happens when you get into the game of manipulation, but also it can be helpful. This is where you got to be smart. And identity's critical in this future. Charlie, what's your reaction to the future of digital identity? So much to look at here on the trajectory. >> I think a big part of it is data portability. If you go to a site like Instagram, you're giving them all this content that's very personal to you, and you can't just pack up and leave Instagram. So we want a future where most of these apps are just a front end and you can navigate from one to the other and bring your data with you. And not be beholden to the companies that operate centralized servers. So, I think data portability is huge and it's going to open up a lot of doors. And just going back to that thought on cleaning up Web2 for a better web three. When I think about the Amazons, the Yelps of the world, there are all these bots, there are all these awful fake reviews. There's a lot of gamification happening that is really just creating a lot of noise. And I want to bring transparency back to the internet where when you see a review, you should know that that's a real human. And blockchain technology is enabling us to do that. And certainly FT domains are going to play a huge part of that. So I think that having an experience where you know and trust the people that you're interacting with is going to be really powerful and just a better experience for everyone. And there's a lot of ramifications with that. politically speaking, we've all seen all the issues with attacking communities and using bots and fake accounts to hit people's pain points, it's sad and certainly not something that we want to see continue happening. So, whatever we can do to give people their digital identity and help people understand that this is a real person on the other end, I think is huge for the future of the internet and really for society as well. >> That's a great call out there Charlie. Cleaning up the mess of Web 2.0, Web2, actually it was 2.0 technically, now Web3 is no point zero in it. But I saw on or listened to the podcast with Matt. This recent one, he had a great metaphor that went back to when I was growing up in the internet, you had IP addresses. And the mess there was, you couldn't find what you want to look. And no one could remember what to type in, 'cause you could type in IP address in the browser back then. And then DNS came out and then keywords that's web. Now that mess, now is fraud, misinformation, bot manipulation, deep fakes, many other kind of unwanted time to innovate. And every year, every time you had these inflection points, there'd be an abstraction on top of it. So, similar thing happening here, is that how you guys see it too? >> I think we're going back to some of the foundational architecture of the internet, DNS. And really bringing that forward about 30, 40 years in terms of technology. So loading in some more cryptography and some other fancy things to help patch some of those issues from the previous versions of the web. >> Awesome. Well guys, thanks so much for coming on and the spirit of TikTok, Emily summarizes asking, can you guys give us a quick TikTok moment, short comment on where this is all going, where is login, single sign-on mean and what should people do to steps to secure their digital identity? >> Sure, I'll jump in here. So, it's time for people to secure their digital identity. The great first step is going to sample domains and getting an NFT domain. You can control your data. You can do a lot of cool different things with your domain, including posting your own website that you will own forever, no one can take it away from you. I would certainly recommend that people join our Discord, Telegram communities, check out our podcasts. It's really great especially if you're new to crypto Web3. We do a great job of explaining all the basic concepts and expanding on them. So yeah, I would say, the time is now to get your digital identity and start embracing Web3 because it's really exploding right now. And there's just so many incredible advantages, especially for the user. >> Michael, what's your take? >> But not, have said it better myself. >> Like we always say, if you're not on the next wave, you're driftwood. And this is a big wave that's happening. It's pretty clear guys, it's there, it's happening now. And again, very pragmatic implementations of solving problems. The sign-on, the app integration. Congratulations and we got our CUBE domain too, by the way. So I think we're good. >> Excellent. >> So, we got to put it to use. Appreciate it, Charlie, Michael, thanks for coming on and sharing the update. >> It's pleasure. >> Welcome. >> Okay, this is theCUBE, with Unstoppable Domains Partner Showcase I'm John for your host, got a lot of other great interviews. Check them out. We're going to continue our coverage and continue on with this great showcase. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Hello, and welcome to the cube special presentation of unstoppable domains partner showcase. I'm John furrier, your host of the cube. We got a great conversation talking about the future of the infrastructure of web three, all around domains, non fungible tokens, and more two great guests. Charlie Brooks, with business development of ensemble domains, and Michael Williams, product leader and advisor with unstoppable doing gentlemen, thanks for coming on the cube partner showcase with unstoppable domains. >>Thanks John. Excited to be here. So >>I love what you guys are doing. Congratulations on all your success. You guys are on the leading edge of what is a major infrastructure shift. Web three is being called, but people who have been doing this for a while, know that you see the blockchain, you see decentralization, you see immutability, all these future smart contracts. All the decentralized applications are now hitting the scene and NFTs are super hot as, as, as you can imagine, you guys are in the middle of it. So you guys are in, in, in the sweet spot of what I call the pragmatic pioneers. You guys are to building solutions that are making a difference like single sign-on. You have the login product, let's get into it. What is the path to I digital identity beyond the web, because we know what web identity is, but now that the web is kind of being abstracted away by this new web three layer, what is digital identity? >>Yeah, I can take that one. So I think what we're really seeing is this transition away from a purely physical identity where your digital life or where your, your online identity is really just a reflection of the, the parts of your physical identity, where you live, where you go to school, all of these things. And we're really seeing this world emerge where your online identity becomes much more of a primary. So if you have a way that you represent yourself in the online world, whether that's an Instagram account or TechTalk or email address or username, all of these things together make up your digital identity. So congrats. If you have any of those things, you already have one. >>Yeah. And we see that all the time with link tree people put their link tree out there and it's got the zillion handles. You're right. We all get up to Instagram and everyone's got like zillion identities. Is that a problem or an opportunity? >>I think it's just a reality. The fact that as our identities are spread across all of these different services and platforms that we use, the problem with something like link tree is that it is owned by link tree. You know, if I won the lottery purchased link tree and decided I wanted to change your personal website, John, I could easily do that. Moving to the kind of architecture that we have. And then if T architecture changes that significantly, it puts a lot of power back in the hands of the people who actually own those identities. >>You know, I do a lot of cube showcases with folks rent on my machine, learning and AI, and the number one conversation that they bring up. The number one issue is data. And they say when data is siloed and, and protected and owned, it is not optimized for machine learning. So I can almost imagine, as you bring NFTs to the digital identity, you mentioned you don't own your identity. If someone else is managing the service like link tree, this is, this is a cultural shift. This is an infrastructure software shift at the same time. Can you guys expand more about what you guys are doing with the NFT and ensemble domains with respect to that digital identity, because is that power shifting to the users now? And how does that compare to what's out there today? >>Sure. I think so. Our domains are NFTs, so they are ERC 7 21 tokens. And if you think about the past kind of web two identities are controlled by the platforms that we use, Twitter, Facebook, whatnot. There's a really a lack of data portability there. Our accounts and data live on their servers. They can be deleted at any time. So using an NFT to anchor your digital identity really gives you full control over your identity. You can't, it can't be deleted. It can't be revoked or edited or changed without your permission. And really, even better than information you store on your entity domain can be plugged into the services you use so that you never have to enter the same data twice. So when you go from platform to platform, everything can be tied to your existing domain. You're not going to a new site, kind of entering their ecosystem and providing all this information time and time again, and not really having a clear understanding of how your data is being used and where it's being stored. >>So the innovation here is the NFT is your identity and, and a non fungible token NFT is different than say a fungible tokens. So for the folks out there, that's trying to follow the bouncing ball. Michael, what's the difference between an NFT and a fungible token. And how does, and why is that important for identity? >>Yeah. My favorite metaphor here is baseball cards versus like dollar bills. So a dollar bill is fungible. If I have a dollar and then you have a dollar, we can trade dollars. And none of us is richer or poorer. If I have a babe Ruth and you have a Hank Aaron, and we swap baseball cards, like we have, we have changed something fundamental. So the, the important thing about NFT is, is that they are non fungible. So if I have a domain and you have a domain, like I have that identity and you have that identity, they are unique. They're independent, they're owned by each one of us. And then we can kind of swap them interchangeably. >>And that's why you're seeing NFTs hot with art and artists, because it's like a property, it's a property issue, not so much absolutely changeable, a divisible kind of asset. >>It is a, it is ownership rights in digital >>Form. Yes. All right. So now let's get into what the, the identity piece. I think I find that interesting because if I have something that's an NFT, it's not fungible. It's unique to me. It's property, my property, my login, this sounds compelling. So how does log-in work with the NFT? Can you guys take us through that, that architecture, what does it do? How does it work? And what's the benefit? >>So the way our login product works is it effectively uses your NFT domain. So Michael dot crypto, for example, as the authentication piece of a, of a login session. So basically when I, when I go and I try to log in with my domain, I type in Michael dot crypto. I sign it with my wallet, which cryptographically proves that I am this human. This is me. I have the rights to log in. And then when I do so I have the ability to share certain parts of my identity information with the applications that I use. And so it really blends the best of the ease of use from web to have just a standard like login with Gmail SSL experience, with all of the security and privacy benefits of web three. >>How important is single sign-on because, I mean, right now people are used to like, seeing things like log with your kid hub handle or LinkedIn, or, you know, Google, apple. I mean, you're seeing people offering login. Okay. What's the difference here from those solutions and why is it make sense for the user? >>Sure. Yeah. The big differences, what we're building is really user first. So if you think about traditional SSOs, you are the product. When you use their product, they're selling your data and, you know, they're tracking everything you do logging in with unstoppable handles, not only authentication, but data sharing as well. So when you log in a domain or owner can choose to share aspects of their online identity, such as first name, preferred language profile, picture location. So this is a user controlled way of using a sign-on, where they are permissioning, these different pieces of their identity. And really apps can use this information to enable new experiences, such as for example, website might automatically enable high contrast mode for someone visually impaired. It could, pre-populate your friends from a decentralized social graph. So what we're doing is taking the best parts of web to SSL and combining them with the best parts of web three. >>So no more losing your password entering in the same data, hundreds of times, you know, depending on other services, keep your information safe. Logging with unstoppable really puts you in complete control of your data. And, you know, a big part of that is you're not going to have 80 plus usernames and passwords anymore. You know, we have these tools like password managers that exist to kind of put a bandaid on this issue, but it's not really a long-term solution. So we're, we're building is really seamless onboarding where everything can be tied to your domain so that you can navigate to different apps in a much more seamless way. >>Michael, I got to get your thoughts on this because on the product side, it's interesting. My mind's kind of connecting some dots if I have, first of all, great convenience to reduce all those logins, right? So, you know, check their little pain, pain reduction. But when you think about what's different, I can now broker my data as well as log in. So let's just say, hypothetically, I'm cruising around some D apps and, you know, doing things and earning reputation or attention or points or whatever, tokens utility tokens. There could be a way for me to control what I own. I'm the product I own the data. Is that kind of where this is going? >>I think it's definitely a direction. It could go say, for example, if I'm a e-commerce platform and I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to place a new billboard, you know, one of the things that I could request from a user is their address. I can figure out where they live, what city they're in that will help inform the, the decision that I need to make as a business. And in return, maybe I give that person a dollar off their purchase, right? Like we can, we can start to build a stronger relationship between the applications that people use and the people that use them and try to optimize that whole experience and try to just transfer information back and forth to make everyone's lives better. >>What's the roadmap on the business side, Charlie, when you see companies kind of adopting it, they're probably taking baby steps or crawling before they walk they're walking before they run. I mean, I can see decentralized applications in the future, whether it's FinTech or whatever, having new kinds of marketplaces that take advantage of the paradigm where the, the script flips to the user first. Okay. So I see that. How do people get started now? What are some of the success momentum points that you're seeing companies do now with unstoppable? >>Sure. So a lot of web three apps are very sensitive about respecting the, the information that their users are providing, right? So what we're doing is I'm offering different ways for apps can touch with their users in a way that is user controlled. So an example there is that a lot of web three companies will use wallet connect to allow users to log in using a wallet address, an issue. There is that one person can have hundreds of wallet addresses, and it's impossible for the app to understand that. So what we do is we use login, we attach an email address, some other pieces to a wallet address so that we can identify who a unique user is. And the app is able to collect that information. They don't have to deal with passwords or PII storage. They have access to a huge amount of new data for an improved UX. >>It's really simple to implement and maintain as well. So one example there is if you are a DFI platform and you want to reward your users for coming to their site for the first time, now that they can identify unique user, they can drop a token into that user's wallet all because they're able to identify that user as unique. So they have a better way of understanding their customers. They enable their customers to share data. A lot of these companies well ask users to follow them on Twitter or discord when they need to provide updates or, you know, bug bounties, all these different things and log in with unstoppable, lets them permission, email addresses so they can collect emails if they want to do a newsletter. And instead of sort of harvesting data from elsewhere and kind of forcing people to join this newsletter program, it's all user controlled. So each user saying, yes, you can use my email for your newsletter. You know, I'm supporting your project, want to be kept up to date with bugs or bounties or rewards programs. So really it's just kind of a, a better way for users to, to share the data that they're willing to with dApps and dabs can use it to create all sorts of incentives and really just kind of understand their users on a, on a different level. >>How has the development Michael going on the, on the smart contract side of the business, you know, theories has always been heralded as being very developer focused. There's been great innovations. Just, you still got, you know, gas fees out there. You still gotta do some things. How is the development environment, how are the applications coming? Cause I can see the really, I can see the flywheel kicking in as a developer, Frank gets more streamlined, more efficient, and now you've got the identity piece nailed down. I just see a lot of kind of dominoes falling at the same time. What's the status on the dev side? >>What's your tour? The fascinating thing about crypto is how quickly it changes. You know, when I, when I joined Ethereum was pretty reasonable still for transactions. It was very cheap to get things done very fast. We've looked at last summer that things went completely out of control. This is a big reason that unstoppable for a long time has been working on a layer two and we've moved over to the Pollyanna, our primary source of record, which is built on top of it. The area of course, I think saved well over a hundred million dollars in Gaspe is for our users that we're constantly keeping an eye on new technologies that are emerging, weighing how we can incorporate those things and really where this industry is going to take us. You know, in many ways we are, are just as much passengers as the other people floating around the ecosystem as well. >>Yeah, it's, it's certainly getting faster every day and seeing a huge uptake on a theorem. I heard a stat that most people at the university of California, Berkeley, 30% of the computer science students are dropping out to join web three companies just goes to show you this cultural shift and you can see a lot more companies getting involved. So I got to ask you Charlie, on the biz dev front, how are companies getting started? What's the playbook? Are they putting their toe in the water? Are they jumping in full throttle? What's, what's the, what's the roadmap. What's the best practice for people to get started with unstoppable? >>Absolutely. You know, we're lucky that we get a lot of inbound interest from companies web two and web three because they first want to secure their domains. And we do a ton of work on the backend to protect trademark domains. We want to avoid squatting as much as possible. You know, we don't think that's the spirit of, of weaponry at all. And certainly not what the original intention of the internet was. So fair amount of companies will reach out to, out to us to get their domain. And then we can have a longer conversation about some of the other integrations and ways we can collaborate. So certainly visiting our website and several domains.com is a great starting point. We have an app submission page where asking, reach out to us, even request a grant. We have a grant prop, a program to help developers get started, provide them some resources to, to work with us and integrate some of our technology. >>We have great documentation as well on the site. So you can read all about what it takes to resolve domains, if you're a water and an exchange, as well as what it takes to integrate login within softball, which is actually a super easy integration as well, which we're, we're really excited about. So yeah, I'd say check out the website apply for our grant. If you think you're a fit there, then of course, people can always reach out to me directly on Twitter, on telegram email. We're very reachable and, and we're always happy to chat with projects and, and learn more about what they're doing. >>What's the coolest thing you've seen going on trial with your partners right now. What's, what's the, what's the number one use case that's cool that people are jumping on right now to get in and get some, some, you know, some success out of the gate. >>Yeah. Maybe, maybe gamefied kind of played, earns huge. It's blowing up. And the gaming community is really passionate, vibrant, just expanding like crazy same with there's all this cool new stuff you can do with defy where no matter, you know, how many, how, how big your kind of portfolio is, you're you're able to stake and use all these interesting tools to kind of grow your book. So it's super exciting to see and talk to all these projects and, you know, there's certainly kind of an energy in the community where everyone wants to onboard the general public to web three, right? So we're all working on these school projects, but we need everyone to come over from web to kind of understand the advantages of defy of game fi of having an empty domain. So I'm lucky that I'm kind of one of the first layers there of, of meeting new projects and kind of helping them get access to more users so that they can grow along with. >>Yeah. I remember the early days of Bitcoin and Ethereum, we were giving it away to give the, the community manager was give a, give a Bitcoin to someone that was when it was, you can actually give a Bitcoin to someone what's the, what's the word of mouth or organic viral. I won't say growth hack because that's got negative connotations, but what's the community's way of putting forth the mission for unstoppable. Is it just more domains you guys have any programs got going on? Is it give it away? I'll see you, you can get domains on your site, but what's the, what's the way to get people in gray shaded in and getting comfortable. >>Yeah. So much of what we do is really just all of that, to all that question, to answer that question, we spent a ton of time and energy just on education and whether that's specifically around domains or just general led three, we have a podcast which is pretty exceptional, which talks to what three leaders from across the space and makes the projects that they're working on more accessible. I think we passed over a hundred episodes, not too long ago. There's a ton of stuff that we do that other people do. If anyone has questions, I'm happy to talk about resources. >>Yeah. The part I think you guys are up to one 17, but that's a deep dive that you guys go deep on the podcast. So that's, you know, where you go in, what else is new on digital identity? Where do you guys see the future going now that you get the baseline identity with the NFT? It makes a lot of sense. Create innovation. Good logic makes sense. Solid. Technically what's next. >>Yeah. I think that's really boils down to the way that the internet has grown. Doesn't really feel like the way that the internet should be like our data shouldn't live in these walled gardens controlled by these large companies. Like ultimately people should be responsible for their own identity it's they should have control over the things that they do online, the data that's shared or the benefit of that data. And so the world that we are working towards is very much that where we are giving people the ability to be paid for sharing their data with companies, we're giving applications, the ability to request information from the people that use those applications to improve their experience. We're really just trying to make connections across the ecosystem, through these products to enable a better experience for everyone. So whether that's the, the use cases that I mentioned already, or maybe viewing reviews on something like Yelp or Amazon that just confirmed that the person that you are looking at is actually a real person, not some bot that's been paid to to the loader review. Like the, the interesting thing about these products is they're so universally applicable, applicable. There are so many different games that we can try to plug them in. So have >>It's a great example. It's double-edged sword. You can have a, a metaverse image and have pre-programmed conversations with, with, you know, liquid audio and the video application, you know, or it's a real person. How do you know the difference? You, these are going to be questions, you know, around, around who solves that problem. Now this is time for bots and is it time not for bots? We all know what happens when you get into the, you know, the game of manipulation, but also it can be helpful. This is where you gotta be smart and identity is critical in this future. Charlie, what's your reaction to the future of digital identity? I mean so much to look at here on the trajectory. >>Yeah. You know, I think a big part of it is data portability, right? If you go to a site like Instagram, you're giving them all this content that's very personal to you and you can't just pack up and leave Instagram. So we want a future where most of these apps are just kind of a front end and you can navigate from one to the other and bring your data with you and not be beholden to the companies that operate centralized servers. So I think data portability is huge and it's going to open up a lot of doors. And, and just going back to that thought on kind of cleaning up web two for a better web three. When I think about the Amazons, the Alps, the Yelps of the world, they're all these bots are all these awful fake reviews. There's a lot of gamification happening that is really just creating a lot of noise. >>And I want to bring kind of transparency back to the internet, where when you see a review, you should know that that's a real human and blockchain technology is enabling us to do that. And certainly enough, two domains are going to play a huge part of that. So I think that having an experience where, you know, and trust the people that you're interacting with is going to be really powerful and just a better experience for everyone. And there's a lot of ramifications with that. You know, politically speaking, we've, we've all seen all the issues with kind of attacking communities and using bots and fake accounts to kind of hit people's pain points is it's kind of sad and, and certainly not something that we want to see continue happening. So whatever we can do to kind of give people their digital identity and help people understand that this is a real person on the other end, I think is huge for, for the future of the internet and really for society as well. >>That's a great call out there. Charlie cleaning up the mess of web 2.0 web two. Well, actually I was, it was 2.0 technically now web three is no nos 0.0 in it, but, but I saw on our listen to the podcast with Matt, this recent one, and he had a great metaphor that went back to when I was growing up in the internet, you got IP addresses, right? And the mess there was, it was, you couldn't find what you want to look and no one could remember what to type in. Cause you can type in IP addresses in the browser back then. And then DNS came out and then keywords that's web. Okay. Now that mess now is fraud. Misinformation, bot manipulation, deep fakes, many other kind of unwanted kind of time to innovate. And every year, every time you had these inflection points, there'd be an abstraction on top of it. So similar thing happening here is that you guys see it too. >>Yeah. I think we're going back to some of the foundational architecture of the internet DNS and really bringing that forward about 30, 40 years in terms of technology. So loading in some work cryptography and some other fancy things to help patch some of those issues from the previous versions of the web. >>Yeah. Awesome. Well guys, thanks so much for coming on and the spirit of our tick talk, you know, I'm only summarize this. Can you guys give us a quick tick tock moment, short comment on, you know, where this is all going, whereas log-in single sign on mean and what should people do to take steps to secure their digital identity? >>Sure. I'll jump in here. So it's time for people to secure their digital identity. That great first step has gone on several domains and getting an entity domain. You know, you can control your data. You can do a lot of cool different things with your domain, including posting your own website that you own forever. And no one can take it away from you. I would certainly recommend the people join. Our discord, telegram community is check out our podcasts. It's really great. Especially if you're new to crypto web three, you know, we do a great job of sort of explaining all the basic concepts and expanding on them. So yeah, I'd say, you know, the time is now, so to get your digital identity and start embracing web three, because it's really exploding right now. And there's just so many incredible advantages, especially for the user, >>Michael, what's your take? >>I mean, I put not, I've said it better myself. >>Like we always say, if you're not on the next wave, your driftwood, and this is a big wave it's happening. It's pretty clear guys. It's it's there, it's happening now. And again, very pragmatic implementations of solving problems. The sign-on the app integration. Congratulations. And we've got our cube domain too, by the way. So we're we're I think we're good. You know, so we've got to put it to you. It's appreciate it, Charlie, Michael, thanks for coming on and sharing the update. Okay. This is the cube with unstoppable domains partner showcase, shout for your hosts. Got a lot of other great interviews. Check them out. We're going to continue our coverage and continue on with this great showcase. Thanks for watching.

>>Yeah. Hello and welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS public sector summit here in Washington D. C. We're live on the ground for two days. Face to face conference and expo hall and everything here but keith brooks who is the director and head of technical business development for a dress government Govcloud selling brains 10th birthday. Congratulations. Welcome to the cube. Thank you john happy to be E. C. 2 15 S three is 9.5 or no, that maybe they're 10 because that's the same day as sqs So Govcloud. 10 years, 20 years. What time >>flies? 10 years? >>Big milestone. Congratulations. A lot of history involved in Govcloud. Yes. Take us through what's the current situation? >>Yeah. So um let's start with what it is just for the viewers that may not be familiar. So AWS Govcloud is isolated. AWS cloud infrastructure and services that were purposely built for our U. S. Government customers that had highly sensitive data or highly regulated data or applications and workloads that they wanted to move to the cloud. So we gave customers the ability to do that with AWS Govcloud. It is subject to the fed ramp I and D O D S R G I L four L five baselines. It gives customers the ability to address ITAR requirements as well as Seaga's N'est ce MMC and Phipps requirements and gives customers a multi region architecture that allows them to also designed for disaster recovery and high availability in terms of why we built it. It starts with our customers. It was pretty clear from the government that they needed a highly secure and highly compliant cloud infrastructure to innovate ahead of demand and that's what we delivered. So back in august of 2011 we launched AWS GovCloud which gave customers the best of breed in terms of high technology, high security, high compliance in the cloud to allow them to innovate for their mission critical workloads. Who >>was some of the early customers when you guys launched after the C. I. A deal intelligence community is a big one but some of the early customers. >>So the Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Department of Justice and the Department of Defense were all early users of AWS GovCloud. But one of our earliest lighthouse customers was the Nasa jet propulsion laboratory and Nasa Jpl used AWS GovCloud to procure Procure resources ahead of demand which allowed them to save money and also take advantage of being efficient and only paying for what they needed. But they went beyond just I. T. Operations. They also looked at how do they use the cloud and specifically GovCloud for their mission programs. So if you think back to all the way to 2012 with the mars curiosity rover, Nasa Jpl actually streamed and processed and stored that data from the curiosity rover on AWS Govcloud They actually streamed over 150 terabytes of data responded to over 80,000 requests per second and took it beyond just imagery. They actually did high performance compute and data analytics on the data as well. That led to additional efficiencies for future. Over there >>were entire kicking they were actually >>hard core missing into it. Mission critical workloads that also adhere to itar compliance which is why they used AWS GovCloud. >>All these compliance. So there's also these levels. I remember when I was working on the jetty uh stories that were out there was always like level for those different classifications. What does all that mean like? And then this highly available data and highly high availability all these words mean something in these top secret clouds. Can you take us through kind of meetings >>of those? Yeah absolutely. So it starts with the federal compliance program and the two most popular programs are Fed ramp and Dodi srg fed ramp is more general for federal government agencies. There are three levels low moderate and high in the short and skinny of those levels is how they align to the fisma requirements of the government. So there's fisma low fisma moderate fisma high depending on the sensitivity of the government data you will have to align to those levels of Fed ramp to use workloads and store data in the cloud. Similar story for D. O. D. With srg impact levels to 45 and six uh impacts levels to four and five are all for unclassified data. Level two is for less sensitive public defense data levels. Four and five cover more sensitive defense data to include mission critical national security systems and impact level six is for classified information. So those form the basis of security and compliance, luckily with AWS GovCloud celebrating our 10th anniversary, we address Fed ramp high for our customers that require that and D. O. D impact levels to four and five for a sensitive defense guy. >>And that was a real nuanced point and a lot of the competition can't do that. That's real people don't understand, you know, this company, which is that company and all the lobbying and all the mudslinging that goes on. We've seen that in the industry. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Um, I do want to ask you about the Fed ramp because what I'm seeing on the commercial side in the cloud ecosystem, a lot of companies that aren't quote targeting public sector are coming in on the Fed ramp. So there's some good traction there. You guys have done a lot of work to accelerate that. Any new, any new information to share their. >>Yes. So we've been committed to supporting the federal government compliance requirements effectively since the launch of GovCloud. And we've demonstrated our commitment to Fed ramp over the last number of years and GovCloud specifically, we've taken dozens of services through Fed ramp high and we're 100% committed to it because we have great relationships with the Fed ramp, Jabor the joint authorization board. We work with individual government agencies to secure agency A. T. O. S. And in fact we actually have more agency A. T. O. S. With AWS GovCloud than any other cloud provider. And the short and skinny is that represents the baseline for cloud security to address sensitive government workloads and sensitive government data. And what we're seeing from industry and specifically highly regulated industries is the standard that the U. S. Government set means that they have the assurance to run control and classified information or other levels of highly sensitive data on the cloud as well. So Fed ramp set that standard. It's interesting >>that the cloud, this is the ecosystem within an ecosystem again within crossover section. So for instance um the impact of not getting Fed ramp certified is basically money. Right. If you're a supplier vendor uh software developer or whatever used to being a miracle, no one no one would know right bed ramp. I'm gonna have to hire a whole department right now. You guys have a really easy, this is a key value proposition, isn't it? >>Correct. And you see it with a number of I. S. V. S. And software as the service providers. If you visit the federal marketplace website, you'll see dozens of providers that have Fed ramp authorized third party SAAS products running on GovCloud industry leading SAAS companies like Salesforce dot com driven technology Splunk essay PNS to effectively they're bringing their best of breed capabilities, building on top of AWS GovCloud and offering those highly compliant fed ramp, moderate fed ramp high capabilities to customers both in government and private industry that need that level of compliance. >>Just as an aside, I saw they've got a nice tweet from Teresa Carlson now it's plunk Govcloud yesterday. That was a nice little positive gesture uh, for you guys at GovCloud, what other areas are you guys moving the needle on because architecturally this is a big deal. What are some areas that you're moving the needle on for the GovCloud? >>Well, when I look back across the last 10 years, there were some pretty important developments that stand out. The first is us launching the second Govcloud infrastructure region in 2018 And that gave customers that use GovCloud specifically customers that have highly sensitive data and high levels of compliance. The ability to build fault tolerant, highly available and mission critical workloads in the cloud in a region that also gives them an additional three availability zones. So the launch of GovCloud East, which is named AWS GovCloud Us East gave customers to regions a total of six availability zones that allowed them accelerate and build more scalable solutions in the cloud. More recently, there is an emergence of another D O D program called the cybersecurity maturity model, C M M C and C M M C is something where we looked around the corner and said we need to Innovate to help our customers, particularly defense customers and the defense industrial based customers address see MMC requirements in the cloud. So with Govcloud back in December of 2020, we actually launched the AWS compliant framework for federal defense workloads, which gives customers a turnkey capability and tooling and resources to spin up environments that are configured to meet see MMC controls and D. O. D. Srg control. So those things represent some of the >>evolution keith. I'm interested also in your thoughts on how you see the progression of Govcloud outside the United States. Tactical Edge get wavelength coming on board. How does how do you guys look at that? Obviously us is global, it's not just the jet, I think it's more of in general. Edge deployments, sovereignty is also going to be world's flat, Right? I mean, so how does that >>work? So it starts back with customer requirements and I tie it back to the first question effectively we built Govcloud to respond to our U. S. Government customers and are highly regulated industry customers that had highly sensitive data and a high bar to meet in terms of regulatory compliance and that's the foundation of it. So as we look to other customers to include those outside of the US. It starts with those requirements. You mentioned things like edge and hybrid and a good example of how we marry the two is when we launched a W. S. Outpost in Govcloud last year. So outpost brings the power of the AWS cloud to on premises environments of our customers, whether it's their data centers or Coehlo environments by bringing AWS services, a. P. I. S and service and points to the customer's on premises facilities >>even outside the United States. >>Well, for Govcloud is focused on us right now. Outside of the U. S. Customers also have availability to use outpost. It's just for us customers, it's focused on outpost availability, geography >>right now us. Right. But other governments gonna want their Govcloud too. Right, Right, that's what you're getting at, >>Right? And it starts with the data. Right? So we we we spent a lot of time working with government agencies across the globe to understand their regulations and their requirements and we use that to drive our decisions. And again, just like we started with govcloud 10 years ago, it starts with our customer requirements and we innovate from there. Well, >>I've been, I love the D. O. D. S vision on this. I know jet I didn't come through and kind of went scuttled, got thrown under the bus or whatever however you want to call it. But that whole idea of a tactical edge, it was pretty brilliant idea. Um so I'm looking forward to seeing more of that. That's where I was supposed to come in, get snowball, snowmobile, little snow snow products as well, how are they doing? And because they're all part of the family to, >>they are and they're available in Govcloud and they're also authorized that fed ramp and Gov srg levels and it's really, it's really fascinating to see D. O. D innovate with the cloud. Right. So you mentioned tactical edge. So whether it's snowball devices or using outposts in the future, I think the D. O. D. And our defense customers are going to continue to innovate. And quite frankly for us, it represents our commitment to the space we want to make sure our defense customers and the defense industrial base defense contractors have access to the best debris capabilities like those edge devices and edge capable. I >>think about the impact of certification, which is good because I just thought of a clean crows. We've got aerospace coming in now you've got D O. D, a little bit of a cross colonization if you will. So nice to have that flexibility. I got to ask you about just how you view just in general, the intelligence community a lot of uptake since the CIA deal with amazon Just overall good health for eight of his gum cloud. >>Absolutely. And again, it starts with our commitment to our customers. We want to make sure that our national security customers are defense customers and all of the customers and the federal government that have a responsibility for securing the country have access to the best of breed capability. So whether it's the intelligence community, the Department of Defense are the federal agencies and quite frankly we see them innovating and driving things forward to include with their sensitive workloads that run in Govcloud, >>what's your strategy for partnerships as you work on the ecosystem? You do a lot with strategy. Go to market partnerships. Um, it's got its public sector pretty much people all know each other. Our new firms popping up new brands. What's the, what's the ecosystem looks like? >>Yeah, it's pretty diverse. So for Govcloud specifically, if you look at partners in the defense community, we work with aerospace companies like Lockheed martin and Raytheon Technologies to help them build I tar compliant E. R. P. Application, software development environments etcetera. We work with software companies I mentioned salesforce dot com. Splunk and S. A. P. And S. To uh and then even at the state and local government level, there's a company called Pay It that actually worked with the state of Kansas to develop the Icann app, which is pretty fascinating. It's a app that is the official app of the state of Kansas that allow citizens to interact with citizens services. That's all through a partner. So we continue to work with our partner uh broad the AWS partner network to bring those type of people >>You got a lot of MST is that are doing good work here. I saw someone out here uh 10 years. Congratulations. What's the coolest thing uh you've done or seen. >>Oh wow, it's hard to name anything in particular. I just think for us it's just seeing the customers and the federal government innovate right? And, and tie that innovation to mission critical workloads that are highly important. Again, it reflects our commitment to give these government customers and the government contractors the best of breed capabilities and some of the innovation we just see coming from the federal government leveraging the count now. It's just super cool. So hard to pinpoint one specific thing. But I love the innovation and it's hard to pick a favorite >>Child that we always say. It's kind of a trick question I do have to ask you about just in general, the just in 10 years. Just look at the agility. Yeah, I mean if you told me 10 years ago the government would be moving at any, any agile anything. They were a glacier in terms of change, right? Procure Man, you name it. It's just like, it's a racket. It's a racket. So, so, but they weren't, they were slow and money now. Pandemic hits this year. Last year, everything's up for grabs. The script has been flipped >>exactly. And you know what, what's interesting is there were actually a few federal government agencies that really paved the way for what you're seeing today. I'll give you some examples. So the Department of Veterans Affairs, they were an early Govcloud user and way back in 2015 they launched vets dot gov on gov cloud, which is an online platform that gave veterans the ability to apply for manage and track their benefits. Those type of initiatives paved the way for what you're seeing today, even as soon as last year with the U. S. Census, right? They brought the decennial count online for the first time in history last year, during 2020 during the pandemic and the Census Bureau was able to use Govcloud to launch and run 2020 census dot gov in the cloud at scale to secure that data. So those are examples of federal agencies that really kind of paved the way and leading to what you're saying is it's kind >>of an awakening. It is and I think one of the things that no one's reporting is kind of a cultural revolution is the talent underneath that way, the younger people like finally like and so it's cooler. It is when you go fast and you can make things change, skeptics turned into naysayers turned into like out of a job or they don't transform so like that whole blocker mentality gets exposed just like shelf where software you don't know what it does until the cloud is not performing, its not good. Right, right. >>Right. Into that point. That's why we spend a lot of time focused on education programs and up skilling the workforce to, because we want to ensure that as our customers mature and as they innovate, we're providing the right training and resources to help them along their journey, >>keith brooks great conversation, great insight and historian to taking us to the early days of Govcloud. Thanks for coming on the cube. Thanks thanks for having me cubes coverage here and address public sector summit. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break. Mhm. Mhm mm.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Well, there's no question these days that in the world of business, it's all about data. Data is the king. How you harvest data, how you organize your data, how you distribute your data, how you secure your data, all very important questions. And certainly a leader in the data replication business is HVR. We're joined now by their CEO, Anthony Brooks-Williams, and by Diwakar Goel, who is the Global Chief Data Officer at GE. We're going to talk about, you guessed it, data. Gentlemen, thanks for being with us. Good to have you here on theCUBE Conversation. >> Thank you. Thanks, John. >> Yeah, well, listen, >> Thanks, John. >> first off, let's just characterize the relationship between the two companies, between GE and HVR. Maybe Diwakar, let's take us back to how you got to HVR, if you will and maybe a little bit about the evolution of that relationship, where it's gone from day one. >> No, absolutely. It's now actually a long time back. It's almost five and a half years back, that we started working with Anthony. And honestly it was our early days of big data. We all had big, different kind of data warehousing platforms, but we were transitioning into the big data ecosystem and we needed a partner that could help us to get more of the real-time data. And that's when we started working with Anthony. And I would say, John, over the years, you know we have learned a lot and our partnership has grown a lot. And it's grown based on the needs. When we started, honestly just being able to replicate a lot sources and to give you context like GBG, we have the fifth largest Oracle ERP. We have the seventh largest SAP ERP. They just, just by the nature of just getting those systems in was a challenge. And we had to work through different, different solutions because some of the normal ones wouldn't work. As we got matured, and we started using data over the last two, three years, specifically, we had different challenges. The challenges was like, you know is the data completely accurate? Are we losing and dropping some data? When you're bringing three billion, five billion rows of data, every five to six hours, even if you've dropped 1% you've lost like a huge set of insights, right? So that's when you started working with Anthony more around like the nuances as to, you know what could be causing us to lose some data, or duplicate some datasets, right? And I think our partnership's been very good, because some of our use cases have been unique and we've continuously pushed Anthony and the team to deliver that. With the light of, you know these use cases are not unique, in some cases we were just ahead, just by the nature of what we were handling. >> Okay. Anthony, about then the HVR approach, Diwakar, just took us through somewhat higher level of how this relationship has evolved. It's started with big data, now, it's gone (mumbles) in terms of even fine tuning the accuracy, that's so important. Latency is obviously a huge topic too from your side of the fence. But how do you address it then? Let's take GE for example, in terms of understanding their business, learning their business, their capabilities, maybe where their holes are, you know where their weaknesses were, and showing that up. How did you approach that from the HVR side? >> Yeah. Do you mean wanting back a few years? I mean, obviously it starts, you get in there, you find an initial use case and that was moving data into a certain data warehouse platform, whether it be around analytics or reporting such as Diwakar mentioned. And that's, I mean, most commonly what we see from a lot of customers. It's, the typical use case is real-time analytics, and moving the data to an area for consolidated reporting. It's either most (indistinct) in these times, it's in the cloud. But GE you know, where that's evolved and GE are a top customer for us. We work across many of their business units of their different BUS. GE had another arm Predix, which is the industrial IOT platform that actually OEM must as well for a solution they sell to other companies in the space. But where we've worked with GE is, you know the ability one, just to support the scale, the complexity, the volume of data, many different sources systems, many different BUS, whether it be, you know, their aviation division or our divisions, or those types, to sending that data across. And the difference being as well where we've really pushed us and Diwakar and team pushed us is around the accuracy to the exact point that Diwakar mentions. This study is typically financial data. This is data that they run their business off. This is data that the executing CEOs get dashboards on a daily basis. It can't be wrong. You may not only do businesses these days, you want to make decisions on the freshest data that they can, and specifically over the last year, because that's a matter about survival. Not only is it about winning, it's about survival and doing business in the most cost-effective way. But then that type of data, that we're moving, the financial data, the financial data lags we built for GE that is capturing this out of SAP systems, where we have some other features benefits, you know that's where that really pushed us around the accuracy. And that's whereby you mean, you can't really, these, you can't ever, but especially these days, have a typical just customer tab vendor approach. It has to be a partnership. And that was one other thing Diwakar and I spoke a while ago. It was about, how do we really push and develop a partnership between the two companies, between the two organizations? And that's key. And that's where we've been pushed. And there's much new things we're working on for them based on where they are going as a business, whether it be different sources, different targets. And so that's where it's worked out well for both companies. >> So Diwakar, about the margin of error then, in terms of accuracy, 'cause I'm hearing from Anthony that this is something you really pushed them on, right? You know, and 96, 97%, doesn't cut it, right? I mean, you can't be that close. It's got to be spot on. At what point in your data journey, if you will, did it come to roost that the accuracy, you know had to improve or, you know you needed a solution that would get you where you needed to operate your various businesses? >> I think John, it basically stems down to a broader question. You know, what are you using the data for? You know, a lot of us, when we're starting this journey we want to use the data for a lot of analytical use cases. And that basically means you want to look at a broad pattern and say, okay, you know what, do I have a significant amount of inventory sitting on one plant? Or, you know, is there a bigger problem with how I'm negotiating with a vendor, and I want to change that? And for those use cases, you know getting good enough data gives you an indicator as to how do you want to work with them, right? But when you want to take your data to a far more fidelity and more critical processes, whether, you know you're trying to capture from an airplane, the latest signal, and if you had five more signal, perhaps you solve the mystery of the Malaysian Med Sync plan, or when you're trying to solve and report on your financials, right? Then the fidelity and the accuracy of data has to be spot on. And what you realize is, you know you unlock a certain set of value with analytical use cases. But if you truly want to unlock what can be done with big data, you have to go at the operational level, you have to run your business using the data real-time. It's not about like, you know, in hindsight, how can I do things better? If I want to make real-time decisions on, you know, how, what I need to make right now, what's my healthcare indicator suggesting, how do I change the dosage for a customer or a patient, right? It has to be very operational. It has to be very accurate. And that margin of error then almost becomes zero, because you are dealing with things. If you go wrong you can cost lives, right? So that's where we are. And I think honestly being able to solve that problem has now opened up a massive door of what all we can do with data. >> Yeah. Yeah, man. I think I would just build on that as well. I mean, one, it's about us as a company. We are in the data business, obviously. Sources and targets. I mean that's the table stakes stuff. What do we support? It's our ability to bridge these modern environments and the legacy environments, that we do. And you see that across all organizations. A lot of their data source sits in these legacy top environments, but that will transition to other either target systems or the new world ones that we see, more modern bleeding edge environments. So we have to support those but they're not the same time. It's building on the performance, the accuracy of the total product, versus just being able to connect the data. And that's where we get driven down the path with companies like GE, with Diwakar. And they've pushed us. But it's really bridging those environments. >> You know, it also seems like with regard to data that you look at this almost like a verb tense, what happened, what is happening, what will happen, right? So in looking at it to that person, Diwakar, if you will, in terms of the kind of information that you can glean from this vast repository of data as opposed to, you know, what did happen, what's going on right now, and then what can we make happen down the road? Where does HVR factor into that for you in terms of not only, you know, making those, having those kinds of insights, but also making sure that the right people within your organization have access to the information that they need. And maybe just, they only need. >> No, you're right, John. It's funny, you're using a different analogy but I keep referring to as taillights versus headlights, right? Gone are the days you can refer back as to what's happening. You need to just be able to look forward, right? And I think real-time data too is no longer a question or believe, it's a necessity. And I think one of the things we often miss out is real-time data is actually a very collaborative piece of how it brings the various operators together. Because in the past, if you think, if you just go a little bit old school, people will go and do their job. And then they will come back and submit what they did, right? And then you will accumulate what everybody did and make sense out of it. Now, as people are doing things live, you are hearing about it. So for example, if I am issuing payments across different, different places I need to know how much balance I need to keep in the bank, it's the simplest example, right? Now I can keep the math, I can always stack my bank with a ton of money, then I'm losing money because now I'm blocking my money. And especially now, if you think about GE which has 6,000 bank account. If I keep stacking it, I will practically go bankrupt, right? So if I have an inference of what's happening every time a payment card issued by anybody, I am knowing it real-time. It allows me to adjust for optimal liquidity. As simple as it sounds, it saves you a hundred billion dollars if you do it right, in a year, right? So I think it is just fundamentally changes. We need to think about real-time data is no longer, it's just how you need to operate. It's no longer an option. >> Yeah. You may, we see, what we've seen as posture, we were fortunate. We had a great 2020. Just under a hundred percent year-over-year growth. Why? It's about the immediacy of data, so that they can act accordingly. You mean these days, it's table stakes. You mean, it's about winning and, or just surviving compared to, you know, years ago when day old data, week old data, that was okay. You mean, then largely these legacy type (mumbles) technologies, well it was fine. It's not anymore. You mean exactly what Diwakar was saying. It's table stakes. It's just what, that's what it is. >> And I think John, in fact, I see actually it's getting further pushed out, right? Because what happens is I get real-time data from HVR but then I'm actually doing some stuff to get real-time insights after that. And there is a lag from that time to when I'm actually generating insights on which I'm acting on. Now, there is more and more of a need that how do I even shorten that cycle time, right? I actually, from it, we are getting, not only data when it's getting refresh, I actually get signals when I need to add something. So I think in fact, the need of the future is going to be also far more event-driven, where every time something happens that I need to act on, how can technologies like HVR even help you with understanding those? >> Anthony: Yes. >> Anthony, what does scale do to all this? Diwakar touched on it briefly about accuracy and all of a sudden, if you know, if you have a, if you've got a, you know a small discrepancy on a small dataset, no big deal, right? But all of a sudden, if there are issues down the road and you're talking about, you know, millions and millions and millions of inputs, now we've got a problem. So just in terms of scale and with an operation the size of GE, what kind of impacts does that have? >> Yeah. Massive. You mean, it's part of the reason why we went, why we've been successful. We have the ability to scale very well from this highly distributed architecture that we have. And so that's what's been, you know, fortunate for us over the last year, as we know. What does the stat mean? 90% of the world's data was generated over the last two years or something like that. And that just feeds into more, human scale is key. Not only complexity at scale is a key thing, and that's where we've been fortunate to set ourselves apart on that space. I mean we, GE push us and challenge us on a daily basis. The same we do with another company, the biggest online e-commerce platform, massive scale, massive scale. Then that's, we get pushed the whole time and get pushed to improve all the time. But fortunately we have a very good solution that fits into that, but it's just, and I think it just doesn't get, worse is the wrong word. It's just, it's going to continue to grow. The problem is not going away. You know, the volumes are going to increase massively. >> So Diwakar, if I could, before we wrap up here, I'm just curious from your, if you put on your forward-thinking glasses right now, in terms of the data capabilities that HVR has provided you, are they driving you to different kinds of horizons in terms of your business strategy or are your business strategies driving the data solutions that you need? I mean, which way is it right now in terms of how you are going to expand your services down the road? >> It's an interesting question. I think, and Anthony keep correcting me on this one, but today, you know because if you think about big data solutions, right? They were largely designed for a different world historically. They were designed for our IOT parametric set of data sets in different kind of world. So there was a big catch up that a lot of these companies had to do to make it relevant even for the other relational data sets, transactional data sets and everything else, right? So a big part of what I feel like Anthony and other companies have been focusing on is really making this relevant for that world. And I feel like companies like HVR are now absolutely there. And as they are there they are now starting to think about solving or I would say focusing on people who are early in their stage, and how can they get them up and quick, you know, efficient early, because that's a lot of the challenges, right? So I would say, I don't know if Anthony's focuses me in, right? So it should not be me, but it's, I think like where they're going, for example like how do they connect with all the different cloud vendors? So when a company wants to come live and if they're using data from, you know the HR Workday solution or Concord Travel solution, they can just come pitch. We are plug and play. And say, okay, enable me data from all of these and it's there. Today what took us six months to get there, right? So I think rightly so, I think Anthony and the team are focusing on that. And I think we have been partnering on with Anthony more, I would say, perhaps pushing a little more on you know, getting not only accurate data but also now on the paradigm of compliant data. Because I think what you're going to also start seeing is as companies, especially in like different kind of industries, like financial, healthcare and others, they would need data certification also of various kinds. And that would require each of these tool to meet compliance standards that were very, they were not designed for again, right? So I think that's a different paradigm, that again Anthony and the team are really doing great in helping us get there. >> Yeah. I think there's, that was good Diwakar. There's quite a bit to unpack there, you know. With companies such as GE, we've been on a journey for many years. And so that's why we deployed across the enterprise. And let's start off with, I have this source system, I'll move my data into their target system. These targets systems you know, become more frequently either data lakes or environments that were on-premise to running in the cloud, to newer platforms that are built for the cloud, like we've seen the uptake in companies like Snowflake and those types. And you mean, we see this from you know big query from Google and those type of environments. So we see those. And that's things we've got to support along the way as well. But then at the same time, more and more data starts getting generated in your non-traditional trial platforms. I mean, cloud-based applications and those things which we then support and build into this whole framework. But at the same time to what Diwakar was saying, the eyes, you know, the legal requirements, the regulator requirements on the type of data that is now being used. Before you would never typically have years ago companies moving their most valuable or their financial data into these cloud-based type environments. Well, they are today. It happens. And so with that comes a whole bunch of regulation in security. And we've certainly seen particularly this last year the uptake in when these transactions have another level of scrutiny when you're bringing in new products into these environments. So they go through, you know, basically the security and the legal requirements are a lot longer and more depth than they used to be. And that's just the typical of the areas that they're deploying these technologies in as well, and where you're taking some technologies that weren't necessarily built for the modern world that they are now adopt in the modern world. So it's quite complex and a lot to unpack there, but it's, you've got to be on top of all of that. But that's where you then work with your top customers, like at GE, that future roadmap, that feeds where one, you obviously make a decision and you go, this is where we believe the market's going, and these are the things we need to go, we know we need to go support, no matter that no customer has asked us for it yet. But the majority of it is still where customers that are pushing, bleeding edge, that are pushing you as well, and that feeds the roadmap. And, you know, there's a number of new profile platforms GE even pushed us to go support and features that Diwakar and the team have pushed us around accuracy and security and those types of things. So it's an all encompassing approach to it. >> John, we could like-- >> Actually, I think we've set up an entirely new CUBE Conversation we're going to have down the road, I think. >> Yeah. (laughing) >> Hey, gentlemen, thank you for the time. I certainly appreciate it. Really enjoyed it. And I wish you both a very happy and importantly, a healthy 2021. >> Great. >> Thank you both. Appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, John. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Anthony. Bye bye. >> Bye bye. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Hey, is Keith Townsend, principal at CTO Adviser, and you're watching the Cube virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm really excited whenever we get toe talk to actual end users. Builders. The conversation is dynamic. This is no exception. Back on the show, Al Vanish despondent head off architectures at logic I've been ish. Welcome back to the show. >>Thanks, Kate. Good to be here >>and on the other side of my screen or how you depend on how you're looking at it is Anthony Brooks Williams C E O off HBR Anthony, Welcome back to the Cube. I know your kind of tired of seeing us, but the conversation is gonna be good, I promise. >>Thanks very much. Look forward to being here and great as you said to talk about a use case for the customer in the real world. >>So I'll be let's start off by talking about lodge attacking. What are you guys doing in a W s in general? I mean, e no. Every company has public cloud, but Logitech and AWS and Public Cloud doesn't naturally come to mind. Help educate the audience. What do you guys doing? >>Sure, so traditionally, audience knows Logitech as the Mice and keyboard company, but we do have a lot of brands which are cool brands off logic tech If you know about gaming, Logitech G is a huge brand for us. We are in video collaboration space. We compete with the likes off Ciscos of the world, where we have hardware that goes on bond works with Zoom Google as well as Microsoft ecosystems. That has been a huge success in a B two b well for us. Beyond music industry gaming as an Astro gaming Jay Bird head phones for athletes. We are also in security system space. On top of that were also in the collaboration space off streaming as in stream labs so a Z can see logic has grown toe where that a lot off use cases, apart from just peripherals, is out there. We connected devices, so we're also looking to move towards a cloud ecosystem where we could be in on on our toes, toe provisioning information on DNA, make sure we are computing to the best of the world. So we are in AWS. We do a lot more in AWS now, compared to what we used to do in the past last five years has seen a change and a shift towards more cloud public cloud usage pure SAS environments in the ws as well And we provisioned data for analysis and essentially a data driven enterprise. Now more so on V as we move towards more future >>and Anthony talked to me about not necessarily just largest heck, but the larger market. How are you seeing companies such as logic? Heck take advantage off A W s and Public cloud. >>Yeah, but I think you mean ultimately we've seen it accelerated the show. Me Castle's just looking for a better way to connect with their prospects, you know, and leverage data in doing so. And we've seen this this driver around digital transformation and that's just being sped up the shirt, given what we've seen around covert and so a lot more companies have really pushed forward and adopting, you know, the infrastructure and the availability off systems and solutions that you find in a platform such as AWS on bets that we've seen grand deduction from our side of customers doing that, we provide the most efficient way of protesters to move data to so platforms such as I don't yes, and that's what we've seen. A big uptick picture. >>So let's focus the conversation around data data, the new oil. We've heard the taglines. Let's put some meat on the bone, so to speak and talk through How are you at logic Tech using real time data in the public cloud? >>Sure, Yeah. I mean, traditionally, if you look at it, uh, logic could selling hardware. Andi hope it >>works for >>the end consumer. Uh, we would not necessarily have an insight into how that product is being used. I think come fast forward. Today's world. It's a connected devices environment. You want to make sure when you sell something, it is working for that consumer. You would want them to be happy about that product, ensuring a seamless experience. Eso customer experience is big. You might want to see a repeat customer come about right. So So the intent is to have a lot off. It is connected experience where you could provisional feedback loop to the engineering team toe to ensure stability off the product, but also enhancements around that product in terms off usage patterns. And and we play a big role with hardware in what you're gaming, for example. And as you can see, that whole industry is growing toe where everything is connected. Probably people do not buy anything, which is a static discussing thing. It's all online gaming. So we want to ensure we don't add Leighton. See in the hardware that we have, ensuring a successful experience and repeat customers right? The essential intent is at the end of the day, to have success with what you sell because there's obviously other options on the market and you want to make sure our customers are happy with the hardware they are investing. Maurin that hardware platform and adding different, very fills along with it so that seamless experiences where we wanna make sure it's connected devices to get that insight. We also look at what people are saying about our products in terms off reviews on APS are on retail portals to ensure we we hear the wise off customer on channel. How's that energy in a positive way to improve the products as well as trying to figure out if there are marketing opportunities were you could go across sailing up cells, so that's essentially driving business towards that success, and at the end of it, that would essentially come up with a revenue generation model >>for us. So Anthony talked to me about how HBR fits into this, because when I look at cloud big, that can be a bit overbearing, like, where's where's the starting point? >>So I mean, for us, you mean the starting point Answer questions around. Acquiring the data data is generated in many places across organizations in many different platforms and many systems. And so we have the ability to have a very efficient technique in the way we go acquire data the way we capture data through this technique called CBC Chinese share the capture where you're feeding incremental updates off off the data across the network. That's the most efficient way to move this data. Firstly, across a wide area network cloud is an endpoint. Uh, you mean off that, And so, firstly, we specializing in supporting many different source systems and so we can acquire that data very efficiently, put it into our into a very scalable, flexible architecture that we have. That's that's a great foot for this modern world of great foot for the cloud. So not only can we capture data from many different source systems, their complexities and a lot of these type of the moments that customers have, we could take the data and move it very efficiently across that network at scale. Because we know, as you've said, data is the new oil that's the lifeblood of organizations today. So we can move that data efficiently at scale across the network and then put it into a system such a snowflake running in AWS like we do for a hobby and a larger taken. So that's really where we fit. I mean, we can, you know, we support data taken from many sources, too many different target systems. We make sure that data is highly accurate. When we move that data across that matches what was in the source of matches, what's in the in the target system. And we do that in this particular use case and what we see predominantly today, the source systems are capturing the data typically today. Still generated on Prem could be data that's sitting in an SFP environment. Unpack that data. Decode that data is to be complex to get out and understand it on moving across and put it in their target system, that predominance sitting in the cloud for all the benefits that we see that the cloud brings around elasticity and efficiency and operational costs the most type of things. And that's probably human in where we fit into this picture. >>You know, I think if I add a little bit there, right, So to Anthony's point for us, we generate a lot of data. You're looking at billions off rolls a day from the edge where people like you and I are using logic devices and we also have a lot off prp transactions That going so the three V s Typically that they call about big data is like the variety off data volume of data at velocity that you want to consume it. So the intent is if you need to be data driven, the data should be available for business consumption as it is being generated very near real time, and that the intent for some of these platforms like H we are, is How efficiently could you move that data, whether it's on Prem or a different cloud into AWS on giving it for business consumption of business analysis in near real time. So you know we strive, Toby Riel time. Whether it's data from China in our factory, on the shop floor, whether it's being generated from people like you and I playing a game for eight hours on generating so many events, we're gonna ensure all that data is being available for business analysis and gone out of those days where we would load that data once a day. And in the hope that we do a weekly analysis right today, we do analysis on make business decisions on that data as the data is being generated. And that's the key to success with such platforms, where we want to make sure we also look at build vs buy rather than us doing all that core and trying toe in just that data we obviously partner with which we are in certain application platforms to ensure stability off it. And they have proven with their experience the I P or the knowledge around how to build those platforms, which even if we go build it, we might need bigger teams to build that. I would rather rely on partners for that capability. And I bring more business value by enabling and implementing such solutions. >>So let's put a little color around that skill whenever I talk to CDOs. Chief data officers, data architects One of the biggest problems that they have in these massive systems you're talking about getting data from E. AARP uh, Internet of things devices, etcetera is simple data transformation. E t l data scientists spend a good droid at a time, maybe sometimes 80% of their time on that data transformation process that slows down the ability to get answers to critical business. Analytic questions. How is HBR assistant you guys and curling down at time for detail? >>Absolutely. So we we do not. We went to cloud about five years back, and the methodology that you talk about e t. L is sort of a point back in the day when you would do, you know, maybe a couple of times a day ingestion. So it's like in the the transition off the pipeline. As you are ingesting data, you would transform and massage the return, enhance the data and provisioned it for business consumption. Today we do lt we extract loaded into target and natively transform it as needed from business consumption. So So we look at each. We are, for example, is, uh, we're replicating all off our e r P data into snowflake in the cloud for real time ingestion and consumption. Uh, if you do all of this analysis on article side to it, typically you would have ah, processing where you would put put in a job toe, get that data out, and analysis comes back to you in a couple of hours out here, you could be slicing and dicing the data as needed on it's all self serve on provisioning. We do not build analysis foreign users. Neither do we do a lot off the data science. But we want to make sure when businesses using that data they can act on that as it's available on the example is we had a processing back in the day with demand forecasting, which we do for every product off logic for 52 weeks, looking ahead for for every week, right, and it will run for a couple of days that processing today with such platforms on in public Lot. We do that in an hour's time. Right now That's critical for business success because you want to know the methodologies you feel need Tofail or have challenges. You probably wanna have them now rather than wait a couple of days for that process in the show up, and then you do not have enough time to, at just the parameters are bringing back some other business process toe augmented. So that's what we look at. The return on investment for such investment are essentially ensuring business continuity and success outfront on faster time to deliver. >>Yeah, >>so, Anthony, this seems like this would really change the conversation within enterprises. The target customer or audience really changes from kind of this IittIe centric movement tome or strategic move. We talked to me about the conversations you've had, what customers and how this has transformed their business. >>Yeah, a few things to unpack there, um, one. You mean, obviously, customs wanna make decisions on the freshest data, so they typically relied on in the past on these batch orientated tough data movement techniques, which which will be touched on there and how we're able to reduce that that time window. Let them make decisions on the freshest data where that takes, you, choose into other parts of organizations. Because, Azzawi said, already, I mean, we know that is the lifeblood of them. There was many, I would say, Typically, I t semi, but let's call it data. Seven people sitting in the both side of organizations, if not Mawr, than used to sit in the legacy I t side. They want access to this data. They want to be able to access their daily easy. And so one of these things cloud based system SAS based systems have made that a lot easier for them. And the conversations. We have a very much driven from not only the chief data officers, but the CEOs. Now they know in order to get the advantage to win. To survive in today's times, they need to be data driven organizations, and it sounds cliche. We hear these digital transformation stories and data driven taglines. They get thrown out there, but what we've seen is where it's really it's been put to toss this year it is happening. Projects that would happen 9 12 months have been given to month Windows to happen because it's a matter of survival and so that's what's really driven. And then you also have the companies that benefit as well. You mean we're fortunate that we are able as a company globally, with composer of all to work from her very efficiently. But then support customers like Obvious who or providing these work from home technology systems that can enable another? The semester It's really moved. That's driven down from being purely I t driven to its CEO, CEO, CEO driven because its's what they've got to do. It z no longer just table stakes. >>I >>think the lines are great, right way we roll up into CEO and like I work for the CEO at at large detect. But we strive to be more service oriented than support. So I t was traditionally looked at as a support our right. But we obviously are enabling the enterprise to be data driven, so we strive to be better at what we do and how we position ourselves. As as more off service are connected to business problem, we understand the business problem and the challenge that they have on and ensuring we could find solutions and solution architectures around that problem to ensure success for that, right? And that's the key to it. Whether we build, vs, buy it. It's all about ensuring business doesn't have toe find stopgap solutions to be successful in finding a solution for their problem. >>Avi Anthony, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to peel back the layers and help the audience understand how to take thes really abstract terms and make them rial for getting answers on real time data and kind of blowing away these concepts of E t l and data transformations and how toe really put data toe work using public cloud resource sources against their real time data assets. Thank you for joining us on this installment of the Cube virtual as we cover A W s re event, make sure to check out the portal and Seymour great coverage off this exciting area off data and data analysis

>> Narrator: From theCUBE's studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, this is Dave Vellante. Welcome to this CUBE conversation. We got a really cool company that we're going to introduce you to, and Anthony Brooks Williams is here. He's the CEO of that company, HVR. Anthony, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey Dave, good to see you again, appreciate it. >> Yeah cheers, so tell us a little bit about HVR. Give us the background of the company, we'll get into a little bit of the history. >> Yeah sure, so at HVR we are changing the way companies routes and access their data. And as we know, data really is the lifeblood of organizations today, and if that stops moving, or stop circulating, well, there's a problem. And people want to make decisions on the freshest data. And so what we do is we move critical business data around these organizations, the most predominant place today is to the cloud, into platforms such as Snowflake, where we've seen massive traction. >> Yeah boy, have we ever. I mean, of course, last week, we saw the Snowflake IPO. The industry is abuzz with that, but so tell us a little bit more about the history of the company. What's the background of you guys? Where did you all come from? >> Sure, the company originated out of the Netherlands, at Amsterdam, founded in 2012, helping solve the issue that customer's was having moving data efficiently at scale across all across a wide area network. And obviously, the cloud is one of those endpoint. And therefore a company, such as the Dutch Postal Service personnel, where today we now move the data to Azure and AWS. But it was really around how you can efficiently move data at scale across these networks. And I have a bit of a background in this, dating back from early 2000s, when I founded a company that did auditing recovery, or SQL Server databases. And we did that through reading the logs. And so then sold that company to Golden Gate, and had that sort of foundation there, in those early days. So, I mean again, Azure haven't been moving data efficiently as we can across these organizations with it, with the key aim of allowing customers to make decisions on the freshest data. Which today's really, table stakes. >> Yeah, so, okay, so we should think about you, as I want to invoke Einstein here, move as much data as you need to, but no more, right? 'Cause it's hard to move data. So your high speeds kind of data mover, efficiency at scale. Is that how we should think about you? >> Absolutely, I mean, at our core, we are CDC trades that capture moving incremental workloads of data, moving the updates across the network, you mean, combined with the distributed architecture that's highly flexible and extensible. And these days, just that one point, customers want to make decisions on us as much as they can get. We have companies that we're doing this for, a large apparel company that's taking some of their not only their core sales data, but some of that IoT data that they get, and sort of blending that together. And given the ability to have a full view of the organization, so they can make better decisions. So it's moving as much data as they can, but also, you need to do that in a very efficient way. >> Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Snowflake, so what I'd like to do is take my old data warehouse, and whatever, let it do what it does, reporting and compliance, stuff like that, but then bring as much data as I need into my Snowflake, or whatever modern cloud database I'm using, and then apply whatever machine intelligence, and really analyze it. So really that is kind of the problem that you're solving, is getting all that data to a place where it actually can be acted on, and turned into insights, is that right? >> Absolutely, I mean, part of what we need to do is there's a whole story around multi-cloud, and that's obviously where Snowflake fit in as well. But from our point of views of supporting over 30 different platforms. I mean data is generated, data is created in a number of different source systems. And so our ability to support each of those in this very efficient way, using these techniques such as CDCs, is going to capture the data at source, and then weaving it together into some consolidated platform where they can do the type of analysis they need to do on that. And obviously, the cloud is the predominant target system of choice with something like a Snowflake there in either these clouds. I mean, we support a number of different technologies in there. But yeah, it's about getting all that data together so they can make decisions on all areas of the business. So I'd love to get into the secret sauce a little bit. I mean we've heard luminaries like Andy Jassie stand up at last year at Reinvent, he talked about Nitro, and the big pipes, and how hard it is to move data at scale. So what's the secret sauce that you guys have that allow you to be so effective at this? >> Absolutely, I mean, it starts with  how you going to acquire data? And you want to do that in the least obtrusive way to the database. So we'll actually go in, and we read the transaction logs of each of these databases. They all generate logs. And we go read the logs systems, all these different source systems, and then put it through our webs and secret sauce, and how we how we move the data, and how we compress that data as well. So, I mean, if you want to move data across a wide area network, I mean, the technique that a few companies use, such as ourselves, is change data capture. And you're moving incremental updates, incremental workloads, the change data across a network. But then combine that with the ability that we have around some of the compression techniques that we use, and, and then just into very distributed architecture, that was one of the things that made me join HVR after my previous experiences, and seeing that how that really fits in today's world of real time and cloud. I mean, those are table stakes things. >> Okay, so it's that change data capture? >> Yeah. >> Now, of course, you've got to initially seed the target. And so you do that, if I understand you use data reduction techniques, so that you're minimizing the amount of data. And then what? Do you use asynchronous methodologies, dial it down, dial it up, off hours, how does that work? >> Absolutely, exactly what you've said they mean. So we're going to we're, initially, there's an initial association, or an initial concept, where you take a copy of all of that data that sits in that source system, and replicating that over to the target system, you turn on that CDC mechanism, which is then weaving that change data. At the same time, you're compressing it, you're encrypting it, you're making sure it's highly secure, and loading that in the most efficient way into their target systems. And so we either do a lot of that, or we also work with, if there's a ETL vendor involved, that's doing some level of transformations, and they take over the transformation capabilities, or loading. We obviously do a fair amount of that ourselves as well. But it depends on what is the architecture that's in there for the customer as well. The key thing is that what we also have is, we have this compare and repair ability that's built into the product. So we will move data across, and we make sure that data that gets moved from A to B is absolutely accurate. I mean people want to know that their data can move faster, they want it to be efficient, but they also want it to be secure. They want to know that they have a peace of mind to make decisions on accurate data. And that's some stuff that we have built into the products as well, supported across all the different platforms as well. So something else that just sets us apart in that as well. >> So I want to understand the business case, if you will. I mean, is it as simple as, "Hey, we can move way more data faster. "We can do it at a lower cost." What's the business case for you guys, and the business impact? >> Absolutely, so I mean, the key thing is the business case is moving that data as efficiently as we can across this, so they can make these decisions. So our biggest online retailer in the US uses us, on the biggest busiest system. They have some standard vendors in there, but they use us, because of the scalability that we can achieve there, of making decisions on their financial data, and all the transactions that happen between the main E-commerce site, and all the third party vendors. That's us moving that data across there as efficiently as they can. And first we look at it as pretty much it's subscription based, and it's all connection based type pricing as well. >> Okay, I want to ask you about pricing. >> Yeah. >> Pricing transparency is a big topic in the industry today, but how do you how do you price? Let's start there. >> Yeah, we charge a simple per connection price. So what are the number of source systems, a connection is a source system or a target system. And we try to very simply, we try and keep it as simple as possible, and charge them on the connections. So they will buy a packet of five connections, they have source systems, two target systems. And it's pretty much as simple as that. >> You mentioned security before. So you're encrypting the data. So your data in motion's encrypted. What else do we need to know about security? >> Yeah, you mean, that we have this concept and how we handle, and we have this wallet concept, and how we integrate with the standard security systems that those customers have already, in the in this architecture. So it's something that we're constantly doing. I mean, there's there's a data encryption at rest. And initially, the whole aim is to make sure that the customer feels safe, that the data that is moving is highly secure. >> Let's talk a little bit about cloud, and maybe the architecture. Are you running in the cloud, are you running on prem, both, across clouds. How does that work? >> Yeah, all of the above. So I mean, what we see today is majority of the data is still generated on prem. And then the majority of the talks we see are in the cloud, and this is not a one time thing, this is continuous. I mean, they've moved their analytical workload into the cloud. You mean they have these large events a few times a year, and they want the ability to scale up and scale down. So we typically see you mean, right now, you need analytics, data warehouses, that type of workload is sitting in the cloud, because of the elasticity, and the scalability, and the reasons the cloud was brought on. So absolutely, we can support the cloud to cloud, we can support on prem to cloud, I think you mean, a lot of companies adopting this hybrid strategy that we've seen certainly for the foreseeable next five years. But yeah, absolutely. The source of target systems considered on prem or in the cloud. >> And where's the point of control? Is it wherever I want it to be? >> Absolutely. >> Is it in one of the clouds on prem? >> Yeah absolutely, you can put that point of control where you want it to be. We have a concept of agents, these agents search on the source and target systems. And then we have the, it's at the edge of your brain, the hub that is controlling what is happening. This data movement that can be sitting with a source system, separately, or on target system. So it's highly extensible and flexible architecture there as well. >> So if something goes wrong, it's the HVR brain that helps me recover, right? And make sure that I don't have all kinds of data corruption. Maybe you could explain that a little bit, what happens when something goes wrong? >> Yeah absolutely, I mean, we have things that are built into the product that help us highlight what has gone wrong, and how we can correct those. And then there's alerts that get sent back to us to the to the end customer. And there's been a whole bunch of training, and stuff that's taken place for then what actions they can take, but there's a lot of it is controlled through HVR core system that handles that. So we are working next step. So as we move as a service into more of an autonomous data integration model ourselves, whichever, a bunch of exciting things coming up, that just takes that off to the next levels. >> Right, well Golden Gate Heritage just sold that to Oracle, they're pretty hardcore about things like recovery. Anthony, how do you think about the market? The total available market? Can you take us through your opportunity broadly? >> Yeah absolutely, you mean, there's the core opportunity in the space that we play, as where customers want to move data, they don't want to do data integration, they want to move data from A to B. There's those that are then branching out more to moving a lot of their business workloads to the cloud on a continuous basis. And then where we're seeing a lot of traction around this particular data that resides in these critical business systems such as SAP, that is something you're asking earlier about, what are some core things on our product. We have the ability to unpack, to unlock that data that sits in some of these SAP environments. So we can go, and then decode this data that sits between these cluster pool tables, combine that with our CDC techniques, and move their data across a network. And so particularly, sort of bringing it back a little bit, what we're seeing today, people are adopting the cloud, the massive adoption of Snowflake. I mean, as we see their growth, a lot of that is driven through consumption, why? It's these big, large enterprises that are now ready to consume more. We've seen that tail wind from our perspective, as well as taking these workloads such as SAP, and moving that into something like these cloud platforms, such as a Snowflake. And so that's where we see the immediate opportunity for us. And then and then branching out from there further, but I mean, that is the core immediate area of focus right now. >> Okay, so we've talked about Snowflake a couple of times, and other platforms, they're not the only one, but they're the hot one right now. When you think about what organizations are doing, they're trying to really streamline their data pipeline to get to turn raw data into insights. So you're seeing that emerging organizations, that data pipeline, we've been talking about it for quite some time. I mean, Snowflake, obviously, is one piece of that. Where's your value in that pipeline? Is it all about getting the data into that stream? >> Yeah, you just mentioned something there that we have an issue internally that's called raw data to ready data. And that's about capturing this data, moving that across. And that's where we building value on that data as well, particularly around some of our SAP type initiatives, and solutions related to that, that we're bringing out as well. So one it's absolutely going in acquiring that data. It's then moving it as efficiently as we can at scale, which a lot of people talk about, we truly operate at scale, the biggest companies in the world use us to do that, across there and giving them that ability to make decisions on the freshest data. Therein lies the value of them being able to make decisions on data that is a few seconds, few minutes old, versus some other technology they may be using that takes hours days. You mean that is it, keeping large companies that we work with today. I mean keeping toner paper on shelves, I mean one thing that happened after COVID. I mean one of our big customers was making them out their former process, and making the shelves are full. Another healthcare provider being able to do analysis on what was happening on supplies from the hospital, and the other providers during this COVID crisis. So that's where it's a lot of that value, helping them reinvent their businesses, drive down that digital transformation strategy, is the key areas there. No data, they can't make those type of decisions. >> Yeah, so I mean, your vision really, I mean, you're betting on data. I always say don't bet against the data. But really, that's kind of the premise here. Is the data is going to continue to grow. And data, I often say data is plentiful insights aren't. And we use the Broma you said before. So really, maybe, good to summarize the vision for us, where you want to take this thing? Yeah, absolutely so we're going to continue building on what we have, making it easier to use. Certainly, as we move, as more customers move into the cloud. And then from there, I mean, we have some strategic initiatives of looking at some acquisitions as well, just to build on around offering, and some of the other core areas. But ultimately, it's getting closer to the business user. In today's world, there is many IT tech-savvy people sitting in the business side of organization, as they are in IT, if not more. And so as we go down that flow with our product, it's getting closer to those end users, because they're at the forefront of wanting this data. As we said that the data is the lifeblood of an organization. And so given an ability to drive the actual power that they need to run the data, is a core part of that vision. So we have some some strategic initiatives around some acquisitions, as well, but also continue to build on the product. I mean, there's, as I say, I mean sources and targets come and go, there's new ones that are created each week, and new adoptions, and so we've got to support those. That's our table stakes, and then continue to make it easier to use, scale even quicker, more autonomous, those type of things. >> And you're working with a lot of big companies, the company's well funded if Crunchbase is up to date, over $50 million in funding. Give us up right there. >> Yeah absolutely, I mean a company is well funded, we're on a good footing. Obviously, it's a very hot space to be in. With COVID this year, like everybody, we sat down and looked in sort of everyone said, "Okay well, let's have a look how "this whole thing's going to shake out, "and get good plan A, B and C in action." And we've sort of ended up with Plan A plus, we've done an annual budget for the year. We had our best quarter ever, and Q2, 193% year over year growth. And it's just, the momentum is just there, I think at large. I mean obviously, it sounds cliche, a lot of people say it around digital transformation and COVID. Absolutely, we've been building this engine for a few years now. And it's really clicked into gear. And I think projects due to COVID and things that would have taken nine, 12 months to happen, they're sort of taking a month or two now. It's been getting driven down from the top. So all of that's come together for us very fortunately, the timing has been ideal. And then tie in something like a Snowflake traction, as you said, we support many other platforms. But all of that together, it just set up really nicely for us, fortunately. >> That's amazing, I mean, with all the turmoil that's going on in the world right now. And all the pain in many businesses. I tell you, I interview people all day every day, and the technology business is really humming. So that's awesome to hear that you guys. I mean, especially if you're in the right place, and data is the place to be. Anthony, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and summarizing your thoughts, and give us the update on HVR, really interesting. >> Absolutely, I appreciate the time and opportunity. >> Alright, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>LA Las Vegas. It's the cube hovering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the cube. Our day one coverage of AWS reinvent 19 continues. Lisa Martin with Dave Volante. Dave and I have a couple of guests we'd like you to walk up. We've got Anthony Brooks billions, the CEO of HBR back on the cube. You're alumni. We should get you a pin and snowflake alumni. But Chris, your new Chris Dagon, chief revenue officer from snowflake. Chris, welcome to the program. Excited to be here. All right guys. So even though both companies have been on before, Anthony, let's start with you. Give our audience a refresher about HVR, who you guys are at, what you do. >>Sure. So we're in the data integration space, particularly a real time data integration. So we move data to the cloud in the in the most efficient way and we make sure it's secure and it's accurate and you're moving into environments such as snowflake. Um, and that's where we've got some really good customers that we happy to talk about joint custody that we're doing together. But Chris can tell us a little bit about snowflake. >>Sure. And snowflake is a cloud data warehousing company. We are cloud native, we are on AWS or on GCP and we're on Azure. And if you look at the competitive landscape, we compete with our friends at Amazon. We compete with our friends at Microsoft and our friends at Google. So it's super interesting place to be, but it very exciting at the same time and super excited to partner with Anthony and some others who aren't really a friends. That's correct. So I wonder if we could start by just talking about the data warehouse sort of trends that you guys see. When I talk to practitioners in the old days, they used to say to me things like, Oh, infrastructure management, it's such a nightmare. It's like a snake swallowing a basketball every time until it comes out with a new chips. We chase it because we just need more performance and we can't get our jobs done fast enough. And there's only three. There's three guys that we got to go through to get any answers and it was just never really lived up to the promise of 360 degree view of your business and realtime analytics. How has that changed? >>Well, there's that too. I mean obviously the cloud has had a big difference on that illustrious city. Um, what you would find is in, in, in yesterday, customers have these, a retail customer has these big events twice a year. And so to do an analysis on what's being sold and Casper's transactions, they bought this big data warehouse environment for two events a year typically. And so what's happening that's highly cost, highly costly as we know to maintain and then cause the advances in technology and trips and stuff. And then you move into this cloud world which gives you that Lester city of scale up, scale down as you need to. And then particular where we've got Tonies snowflake that is built for that environment and that elicited city. And so you get someone like us that can move this data at today's scale and volume through these techniques we have into an environment that then bleeds into helping them solve the challenge that you talk about of Yesi of >>these big clunky environments. That side, I think you, I think you kind of nailed it. I think like early days. So our founders are from Oracle and they were building Oracle AI nine nine, 10 G. and when I interviewed them I was the first sales rep showing up and day one I'm like, what the heck am I selling? And when I met them I said, tell me what the benefit of snowflake is. And they're like, well at Oracle, and we'd go talk to customers and they'd say, Oracles, you know, I have this problem with Oracle. They'd say, Hey, that's, you know, seven generations ago were Oracle. Do you have an upgraded to the latest code? So one of the things they talked about as being a service, Hey, we want to make it really easy. You never have to upgrade the service. And then to your point around, you have a fixed amount of resources on premise, so you can't all of a sudden if you have a new project, do you want to bring on the first question I asked when I started snowflake to customers was how long does it take you to kick off a net new workload onto your data, onto your Vertica and it take them nine to 12 months because they'd have to go procure the new hardware, install it, and guess what? >>With snowflake, you can make an instantaneous decision and because of our last test city, because the benefits of our partner from Amazon, you can really grow with your demand of your business. >>Many don't have the luxury of nine to 12 months anymore, Chris, because we all know if, if an enterprise legacy business isn't thinking, there's somebody not far behind me who has the elasticity, who has the appetite, who's who understands the opportunity that cloud provides. If you're not thinking that, as auntie Jessie will say, you're going to be on the wrong end of that equation. But for large enterprises, that's hard. The whole change culture is very hard to do. I'd love to get your perspective, Chris, what you're seeing in terms of industries shifting their mindsets to understand the value that they could unlock with this data, but how are big industries legacy industries changing? >>I'd say that, look, we were chasing Amad, we were chasing the cloud providers early days, so five years ago, we're selling to ad tech and online gaming companies today. What's happened in the industry is, and I'll give you a perfect example, is Ben wa and I, one of our founders went out to one of the largest investment banks on wall street five years ago, and they said, and they have more money than God, and they say, Hey, we love what you've built. We love, when are you going to run on premise? And Ben, Ben wa uttered this phrase of, Hey, you will run on the public cloud before we ever run in the private cloud. And guess what? He was a truth teller because five years later, they are one of our largest customers today. And they made the decision to move to the cloud and we're seeing financial services at a blistering face moved to the cloud. >>And that's where, you know, partnering with folks from HR is super important for us because we don't have the ability to just magically have this data appear in the cloud. And that's where we rely quite heavily on on instance. So Anthony, in the financial services world in particular, it used to be a cloud. Never that was an evil word. Automation. No, we have to have full control and in migration, never digital transformation to start to change those things. It's really become an imperative, but it's by in particular is really challenging. So I wonder if we could dig into that a little bit and help us understand how you solve that problem. >>Yes. A customer say they want to adopt some of these technologies. So there's the migration route. They may want to go adopt some of these, these cloud databases, the cloud data warehouses. And so we have some areas where we, you know, we can do that and keep the business up and running at the same time. So the techniques we use are we reading the transactional logs, other databases or something called CDC. And so there'll be an initial transfer of the bulk of the data initiative stantiating or refresh. At that same time we capturing data out of the transaction logs, wildlife systems live and doing a migration to the new environment or into snowflakes world, capturing data where it's happening, where the data is generated and moving that real time securely, accurately into this environment for somewhere like 1-800-FLOWERS where they can do this, make better decisions to say the cost is better at point of sale. >>So have all their business divisions pulling it in. So there's the migration aspects and then there's the, the use case around the realtime reporting as well. So you're essentially refueling the plane. Well while you're in mid air. Um, yeah, that's a good one. So what does the customer see? How disruptive is it? How do you minimize that disruption? Well, the good thing is, well we've all got these experienced teams like Chris said that have been around the block and a lot of us have done this. What we do, what ed days fail for the last 15 years, that companies like golden gate that we sold to Oracle and those things. And so there's a whole consultative approach to them versus just here's some software, good luck with it. So there's that aspect where there's a lot of planning that goes into that and then through that using our technologies that are well suited to this Appleton shows some good success and that's a key focus for us. And in our world, in this subscription by SAS top world, customer success is key. And so we have to build a lot of that into how we make this successful as well. >>I think it's a barrier to entry, like going, going from on premise to the cloud. That's the number one pushback that we get when we go out and say, Hey, we have a cloud native data warehouse. Like how the heck are we going to get the data to the cloud? And that's where, you know, a partnership with HR. Super important. Yeah. >>What are some of the things that you guys encountered? Because we many businesses live in the multi-cloud world most of the time, not by strategy, right? A lot of the CIO say, well we sort of inherited this, or it's M and a or it's developers that have preference. How do you help customers move data appropriately based on the value that the perceived value that it can give in what is really a multi world today? Chris, we'll start with you. >>Yeah, I think so. So as we go into customers, I think the biggest hurdle for them to move to the cloud is security because they think the cloud is not secure. So if we, if you look at our engagement with customers, we go in and we actually have to sell the value snowflake and then they say, well, okay great, go talk to the security team. And then we talked to security team and say, Hey, let me show you how we secure data. And then then they have to get comfortable around how they're going to actually move, get the data from on premise to the cloud. And that's again, when we engage with partners like her. So yeah, >>and then we go through a whole process with a customer. There's a taking some of that data in a, in a POC type environment and proving that after, as before it gets rolled out. And a lot of, you know, references and case studies around it as well. >>Depends on the customer that you have some customers who are bold and it doesn't matter the size. We have a fortune 100 customer who literally had an on premise Teradata system that they moved from on prem, from on premise 30 to choose snowflake in 111 days because they were all in. You have other customers that say, Hey, I'm going to take it easy. I'm going to workload by workload. And it just depends. And the mileage may vary is what can it give us an example of maybe a customer example or in what workloads they moved? Was it reporting? What other kinds? Yeah. >>Oh yeah. We got a couple of, you mean we could talk a little bit about 1-800-FLOWERS. We can talk about someone like Pitney Bowes where they were moving from Oracle to secret server. It's a bunch of SAP data sitting in SAP ECC. So there's some complexity around how you acquire, how you decode that data, which we ever built a unique ability to do where we can decode the cluster and pool tables coupled with our CDC technique and they had some stringent performance loads, um, that a bunch of the vendors couldn't meet the needs between both our companies. And so we were able to solve their challenge for them jointly and move this data at scale in the performance that they needed out with these articles, secret server enrollments into, into snowflake. >>I almost feel like when you have an SAP environment, it's almost stuck in SAP. So to get it out is like, it's scary, right? And this is where it's super awesome for us to do work like this. >>On that front, I wanted to understand your thoughts on transformation. It's a word, it's a theme of reinvent 2019. It's a word that we hear at every event, whether we're talking about digital transformation, workforce, it, et cetera. But one of the things that Andy Jassy said this morning was that got us start. It's this is more than technology, right? This, the next gen cloud is more than technology. It's about getting those senior leaders on board. Chris, your perspective, looking at financial services first, we were really surprised at how quickly they've been able to move. Understanding presumably that if they don't, there's going to be other businesses. But are you seeing that as the chief revenue officer or your conversations starting at that CEO level? >>It kinda has to like in the reason why if you do in bottoms up approach and say, Hey, I've got a great technology and you sell this great technology to, you know, a tech person. The reality is unless the C E O CIO or CTO has an initiative to do digital transformation and move to the cloud, you'll die. You'll die in security, you'll die in legal lawyers love to kill deals. And so those are the two areas that I see D deals, you know, slow down significantly. And that's where, you know, we, it's, it's getting through those processes and finding the champion at the CEO level, CIO level, CTO level. If you're, if you're a modern day CIO and you do not have a a cloud strategy, you're probably going to get replaced >>in 18 months. So you know, you better get on board and you'd better take, you know, taking advantage of what's happening in the industry. >>And I think that coupled with the fact that in today's world, you mean, you said there's a, it gets thrown around as a, as a theme and particularly the last couple of years, I think it's, it's now it is actually a strategy and, and reality because what Josephine is that there's as many it tech savvy people sit in the business side of organizations today that used to sit in legacy it. And I think it's that coupled with the leadership driving it that's, that's demanding it, that demanding to be able to access that certain type of data in a geo to make decisions that affect the business. Right now. >>I wonder if we could talk a little bit more about some of the innovations that are coming up. I mean I've been really hard on data. The data warehouse industry, you can tell I'm jaded. I've been around a long time. I mean I've always said that that Sarbanes Oxley saved the old school BI and data warehousing and because all the reporting requirements, and again that business never lived up to its promises, but it seems like there's this whole new set of workloads emerging in the cloud where you take a data warehouse like a snowflake, you may be bringing in some ML tools, maybe it's Databricks or whatever. You HVR helping you sort of virtualize the data and people are driving new workloads that are, that are bringing insights that they couldn't get before in near real time. What are you seeing in terms of some of those gestalt trends and how are companies taking advantage of these innovations? >>I think one is just the general proliferation of data. There's just more data and like you're saying from many different sources, so they're capturing data from CNC machines in factories, you know like like we do for someone like GE, that type of data is to data financial data that's sitting in a BU taking all of that and going there's just as boss some of data, how can we get a total view of our business and at a board level make better decisions and that's where they got put it in I snowflake in this an elastic environment that allows them to do this consolidated view of that whole organization, but I think it's largely been driven by things that digitize their sensors on everything and there's just a sheer volume of data. I think all of that coming together is what's, what's driven it >>is is data access. We talked about security a little bit, but who has rights to access the data? Is that a challenge? How are you guys solving that or is it, I mean I think it's like anything like once people start to understand how a date where we're an acid compliant date sequel database, so we whatever your security you use on your on premise, you can use the same on snowflake. It's just a misperception that the industry has that being on, on in a data center is more secure than being in the cloud and it's actually wrong. I guess my question is not so much security in the cloud, it's more what you were saying about the disparate data sources that coming in hard and fast now. And how do you keep track of who has access to the data? I mean is it another security tool or is it a partnership within owes? >>Yeah, absolutely man. So there's also, there's in financial data, there's certain geos, data leaves, certain geos, whether it be in the EU or certain companies, particularly this end, there's big banks now California, there's stuff that we can do from a security perspective in the data that we move that's secure, it's encrypted. If we capturing data from multiple different sources, items we have that we have the ability to take it all through one, one proxy in the firewall, which does, it helps him a lot in that aspect. Something unique in our technology. But then there's other tools that they have and largely you sit down with them and it's their sort of governance that they have in the, in the organization to go, how do they tackle that and the rules they set around it, you know? >>Well, last question I have is, so we're seeing, you know, I look at the spending data and my breaking analysis, go on my LinkedIn, you'll see it snowflakes off the charts. It's up there with, with robotic process automation and obviously Redshift. Very strong. Do you see those two? I think you addressed it before, but I'd love to get you on record sort of coexisting and thriving. Really, that's not the enemy, right? It's the, it's the Terra data's and the IBM's and the Oracles. The, >>I think, look, uh, you know, Amazon, our relationship with Amazon is like a, you know, a 20 year marriage, right? Sometimes there's good days, sometimes there's bad days. And I think, uh, you know, every year about this time, you know, we get a bat phone call from someone at Amazon saying, Hey, you know, the Redshift team's coming out with a snowflake killer. And I've heard that literally for six years now. Um, it turns out that there's an opportunity for us to coexist. Turns out there's an opportunity for us to compete. Um, and it's all about how they handle themselves as a business. Amazon has been tremendous in separation of that, of, okay, are going to partner here, we're going to compete here, and we're okay if you guys beat us. And, and so that's how they operate. But yes, it is complex and it's, it's, there are challenges. >>Well, the marketplace guys must love you though because you're selling a lot of computers. >>Well, yeah, yeah. This is three guys. They, when they left, we have a summer thing. You mean NWS have a technological DMS, their data migration service, they work with us. They refer opportunities to us when it's these big enterprises that are use cases, scale complexity, volume of data. That's what we do. We're not necessary into the the smaller mom and pop type shops that just want to adopt it, and I think that's where we all both able to go coexist together. There's more than enough. >>All right. You're right. It's like, it's like, Hey, we have champions in the Esri group, the EEC tuna group, that private link group, you know, across all the Amazon products. So there's a lot of friends of ours. Yeah, the red shift team doesn't like us, but that's okay. I can live in >>healthy coopertition, but it just goes to show that not only do customers and partners have toys, but they're exercising it. Gentlemen, thank you for joining David knee on the key of this afternoon. We appreciate your time. Thank you for having us. Pleasure our pleasure for Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the queue from day one of our coverage of AWS reinvent 19 thanks for watching.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Well, good afternoon, or good evening, if you're watching us back on the East Coast right now. We are live here at AWS re:Invent in Las Vegas along with Justin Warren, I'm John Walls. We're now joined by Anthony Brooks-Williams, who's the CEO of HVR. >> Thanks for having me here today. >> Thanks for being here with us today, and Paul Specketer, who's the Enterprise Data Architect at SUEZ. Paul, good afternoon to you. >> Good afternoon. >> All right so let's just first off, tell us a little bit about your respective companies and why you're here together, and why you're here at the show? Anthony if you will. >> Sure absolutely. So at HVR, we provide the most efficient way for companies to move their data, in particular to the cloud and at scale, and that they have the peace of mind that when they move their data that it's accurate, and we give them insights on the data that we move. So we do that for companies such as SUEZ, enable them to get their data into S3, into Redshift, and so they can make decisions on the freshest data. >> All right, go on Paul. >> So yeah, we're formally GE, and SUEZ acquired our company. So now we're standing up an entire data platform, all the applications are coming over to AWS. So in the past year, we've had to stand up for Redshift cluster, the full ETL backbone behind that, and including the replication from our ERP system into that environment. So we're going live with that in the next coming months. So that's why we're here. We use HVR to move our data around before the ETL process. >> Anthony, you mentioned that if customers want to make decisions on the latest, the freshest data. >> Yeah. >> So what are the kinds of analysis, and what are the kinds of the decisions that customers are trying to make here? >> Sure, obviously it depends on the customer themselves. >> Clearly yeah. >> If it's a big e-commerce vendor, someone like that or where are certain products selling at a certain region based on a certain weather pattern or something like that. Our ability to capture that at a store level, and moving that back so they know how to fulfill the warehouses or what stock is out there, that enables them to run a more profitable business. Whether it be someone like that or Paul's previous company, someone like GE from an aviation perspective to transportation. It's what's happening in the environment in the systems. So giving them the ability to move that data, move it at volume, and just make good business decisions. Even the main use case for us is consolidated reporting. Consolidated reporting along some of those financials as well. So the exact level, board level are making decisions on their business with the freshest numbers that are sitting in front of them at that time. >> Paul, what are some of the key ways that HVR will be able to help you in designing that system that can support the needs of those customers? What are some of the key things where you've got there is when actually we really the help of someone like HVR to help us to do that. >> Long ago, we had database triggers, and we had some programs that we had to write to capture changes. That all goes away when you do log based data replication. So for us, we changed that whole strategy and we said, you know what, just take everything from the ERP. Move it up into the cloud. Then from there, move it where you need to, process the ETL, and shift it around. So for us, it's just the first goal is take everything as is, get it up into the cloud as the replicated data set. Then from there, we do our ETL processing. We watch that, or we view that in Tableau. So for us, what I'm building allows us to close our books in one to two days. As when we were in GE, we're driving towards a one-day close. Now that we're in SUEZ, we're doing a hard close every month. So we're trying to drive that time down as low as possible. You've got people sitting around waiting for the report to look right. So the more we can do to drive that time down, the more people get their weekends back. >> Right, right, yeah. >> People like weekends. >> Yeah all right, so you talked about accuracy. >> Yep >> You talked about volume. >> Yep. >> All right, so obviously you got a lot more data coming through. >> Yeah. >> The need to keep it a mart. What about speed and latency? I mean how of a concern is that for you? Because you got this bigger funnel that you need all the time. >> Absolutely, and especially in today's world of the cloud, and moving data across wide area networks. So that's whereby the technique that we use, the CDC, the change data capture, where you're reading those transaction logs. You're only capturing the changes, and moving those across the network. Then our technology, we have some proprietary techniques we do around compression that further magnifies that bandwidth. So you're magnifying the bandwidth. You're able to move a large volume of data more efficiently, and the latency certainly comes in to them as well. So built into the product, we have a feature around the data accuracy perspective. So that no matter what the source or target system is, they know their data is absolutely accurate. And then tied to that is a product that we released recently is around insights. That's telling them the statistics on the data that we're moving. We've gathered that and now we now showing that published into the customers, largely because customers like Paul, that were doing this themselves, we provided the statistics on the data, and they were having a front-end on top of that. We've not taken that to the broader market. So that's showing them exactly things like latency. So they'll be able to drill in, and go that graph or that line is red or it's thicker, and it's telling them the latency. We should probably do something about that. What's the bottleneck there? So it's all coming together now. Particularly in this cloudy world of moving this data. >> So Paul, can you give us an example then of what Anthony has just talked about? How in real life, of how this happened for you that with that kind of reporting, that you saw whatever hiccup there was in the system if you will, that it identified that and solved that problem for you. >> As far as the short cycle close, I had a hard time hearing you actually. >> Yeah, from the statistics, I was talking about when we were moving the data, and how you were collecting stats on that data that moved already, that's enabled you, particularly from a latency perspective of the volume you can move. If there's an issue with it, what do you do with that. >> So one of the challenges we always have was when you go through a long cycle replication, and you've been doing it for months, and I ask you the question. Are you sure you got every change? Do you know? So that's we never know but now with increases in the Redshift cluster performance, with the DC2 clusters, increases in the performance of Redshift or of HVR in moving that data in, our strategy now is to not doubt the data ever. We just refresh it every month, right before it close. We refresh the data. It takes us like four hours to move two terabytes into Redshift. So why not? That changes your approach when you don't have to stress out about the data being accurate, week in, week out. Every quarter right before it closes, you're getting a fresh copy. So that really changed my life. It's being able to know going into close, before the finance guys look at it, that the data is perfect. >> So now that you've had that issue or that concern taken away, and you don't have to worry about it anymore, has that open up new possibilities in like I can now attempt to do these things, which I would have loved to, like I thought about it, but like I don't have time. We have these other constraints. So with those constraints gone, what are you now able to do? >> What we're going to look at now is instead of doing ETL inside of the Redshift cluster, we're going to take that out. Because we actually do about three quarter of the space in our cluster is used for ETL. So we're going to carve that out, maybe do it in S3, we're not sure. As soon as we do that, we'll be down to like a four-node Redshift cluster. That'll save a lot of money. So that for us-- >> Big savings. >> Yeah. >> Now that we're in the cloud, the next push is how do we optimize it? How do we take advantages of cloud native services that we never had access to before? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So that's what's on my horizon. It's looking at that and saying what can I do in the next year? >> All right, we're seeing massive growth in data across. We've had many conversations so far today about data being generated from IoT devices at the edge. We're having to process it in more places because we're just physically moving this data around. It's such a huge problem. It's why you exist. >> Yep. >> So what do you see customers deal? When they're trying to deal with this issue, this data is not going to get smaller. There's going to be more and more of this data. So how are you helping customers to grapple with this issue about well, where should we move the data? Should we move all of it into the cloud? Is that the only direction that it should be moved? Or you're able to help them say, you know what we want to move some of it to here. We'll place some other data over there. We can help you move it around no matter where it needs to go. >> Certainly, so we're obviously agnostic to where they want to move their data. Well, given the years of experience that we have, and the people we have in the company, we certainly are able to lend that seasoned advice to them of where we think an efficient place will be to move that data. Certainly within the technology of HVR, it's very efficient at capturing data once, and then sending it to many. >> Right. >> That's how we really set ourselves apart from a complexity of we're being modular and flexible of capturing that data, feed on the cusp where they need to. We can send to capture one, send to multiple target systems. So they could go and say, I'm going to put the bulk of this feed into S3. I'm going to take a bit of that, and put it into Redshift. So it gives them that flexibility to do that. So obviously with us, some of our skilled architects that we have in the field, are able to make them, not just go and sell a product, actually help them with a solution. We're out there selling software but we're making sure that we're delivering customers with a total solution. Because I think we look back on yesteryear, and some of the data lags, you know the stats from Gartner, 70% of those projects failed. It was just, I'm going to take it all and put it in there. Well why, how? I think it's planning those well together, and sort of the defacto data lag we've seen out today is seven out of 10 times in something like S3. So take the architecture, take the technology, take the people, and help them go execute on their plan, and just lend some of that advice along the process to them. >> That sounds like something that would add a lot of value. >> Yeah. >> You put it there because you could. >> Absolutely. >> That's why. >> Why, 'cause we can. >> It was a small improvement, it was a good place to put it. >> It fits. >> I might not look at it for a long time. >> It was cheap, and it was clear. >> Put it on top there, right. >> Absolutely. >> Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. We appreciate the time. >> Thank you for the time. >> Paul, we're really happy you have your weekends back. Thank goodness on that, excellent. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Back with more, here from AWS re:Invent, pardon me, from Las Vegas. We're live at the Sands. We'll wrap up in just a moment. (enlightening music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's The Cube, covering Cisco Live 2018 brought to you by Cisco, NetApp and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live at Cisco 2018, Cisco Live 2018. It's The Cube live coverage here in Orlando, Florida. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman my co-host for the next three days of live coverage. Our next guest is Brooks Borcherding, president and CEO of LiveAction and Darren Kimura, chief strategist and vice chair from LiveAction, fresh off the heels of a great acquisition. Next generation monitoring, networking. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining us. It's good to see you again. >> Thank you, we're so glad to be here. >> So, love the action going on, literally, LiveAction with MNA activity. You guys got some good news happening around the company but also Cisco's event here really is perfectly poised for what you guys are doing. The CEO on stage literally saying to his army of customers, "This old way is now old. This is the new modern era." And really talking about what is multicloud, basically. So his entire army of customers are moving to next generation. So it intersects with what you guys are doing, so take a minute to talk about LiveAction and the news. >> Okay, so I think first of all, LiveAction, you know, we've always been known to be a leader in network management. We've worked very, very closely with Cisco for a dozen years and what we help companies do is take the complexity out of the management of their large networks. So that's been the core, fundamental, you know, value proposition that we've always delivered is how we simplified the network in these increasingly complex environments, right? So what's interesting now with this period of time is networks continue to become more and more complex. You have things like digital transformation, you have things like cloud and multicloud and hybrid cloud. You have things like software-defined networks. Each of them in their own right just makes the wide area that much more complex. >> And more endpoints every day. I think he threw a stat out, another couple hundred million endpoints are coming now. >> Right. >> So it's not ending. >> That's true and in that market transition it gives us a great opportunity because our core value proposition has always been simplifying the networks. Now that's even more essential than ever before. >> One of the critical problems that come out of that, obviously, is the tsunami of endpoints is one, we heard the security threats with encryption is another one. So, the need to instrument seems obvious but also it's almost overbearing, like, what do you do? How do you guys see the core problems that you're attacking? >> Why don't you take that? >> Well I think the big, what we're trying to do at Live Action is simplify the network. That's really at the core of everything we trying to do. And when we talk to our customers we understand from them that most times they might have four or ten different tools. So the first thing we're trying to do is figure out what are the biggest use cases and combine them all into one singular tool. And that's what we're producing at LiveAction, is the ability for you to see your entire network from end to end. East-west and north-south. So, as we take a look at things like the cloud environment, you know, what exactly is that, right? You know, is it north-south, is it east-west? It's all of the above. And what we're trying to do at LiveAction is have a Full Stack application that can basically provide visibility and analytics so you can understand all of it in one place. >> So any vector, no matter what it is. I mean, surely that makes sense with the perimeter gone. >> Yes. >> Security certainly has to have that baseline. >> Right. >> We'll give you a good example of that, is now with the whole software-defined network in what we're doing with SD Access, for example, but now we're going back into the data center and there's these complex terms around the overlay network and underlay network and logical and physical and it's becoming incredibly complex. We give the ability to actually see the flows, like, through those complex fabrics and that's an essential toolkit now because you need to be able to find out when there's an issue, where's that coming from, right? That is the, what is the source of that issue? How quickly can you identify that and how quickly can you then remediate it? >> Before you get there I want to follow up on that because one of the focus was here in DevOps side, is automation. If you can't see it, how do you know to automate it? >> Right. >> Does that come into the dialogue or is that? >> That is the dialogue for us here, so, we provide situational awareness. We hope for our end users to understand what's happening across their networks realtime. And then, you know, we work with Cisco, for example, hand in hand on the intent based network. So, being able to provide insights for, you know, the next generation of the products to be able to actually take action. >> Yeah, one of the things we've been watching in the networking space for many years is the use of analytics. And you recently made an acquisition that really ties into that space. Why don't you give us, what led to the acquisition? >> We did, so we had news on Friday and to be fair, I mean, Darren's been leading this charge for us for quite some time because we've been a NetFlow based solution for a long period of time, meaning that we can provide visualization for the devices that we have integrations with, essentially. There's a lot of devices that don't have NetFlow. So we couldn't actually capture them into our visualization engine. So what we did on Friday is we announced the acquisition of Savius, and Savvius is a packet capture and inspection technology company. Been around a long time, some very famous products with Omnipeek and Omnipliance, for example, that are consumed by thousands of customers. And now we're able to, with that appliance, actually tap into all sorts of devices, and suddenly propagate all of that into our visualization engine. So it opens up a dramatically larger and restful opportunity for us and we're kind of defining this to be the next generation of networks and ports management because no one else is doing this visualization across that scope of devices like we are. >> Your observation space is massive now. >> It is. >> Yeah, Darren, I wonder if you'd follow up that 'cause one of the big questions I had coming in to this is, if I'm a networking person, what about all that networking that I don't control anymore that I'm on the hook for it. So, you know, we actually, the network here went down even for a few minutes and we're like, we're here at Cisco Live with, you know, probably the largest single concentration of network people and wireless experts and the like, so, yeah. >> Yeah, so one of the things that we're trying to do now is we're trying to capture all data from basically all endpoints. Whether it be a client to a server, a VM container, doesn't matter what it is. We wanna see it all, we wanna get it from the granular, most granular packet level all the way up, but take all of that data and make it simple for people to understand. You put it on a simple UI, understand a very simple workflow so that they can automatically associate problem or good network behaviors right there on screen without having to, you know, go through the 5,000 page Cisco manual and really understand what exactly is going on. >> Okay. >> I think what's important about that is how quickly can you identify the source of the issue? That's really where we come into play. We talk a lot, even these days, about MTTR, meantime to resolution, that continues to be an essential, kind of, metric that people measure. But what's more important to that even is the initial diagnostic. So, is it the network? Is it, you know, something at the edge of the network? Is it the service provider? You know, where in the network does this happen? And by being able to provide that essential information to the first point of contact it really does help extradite and accelerate the entire process. >> Huge acceleration. Darren, I wanna ask you a point about, sorry Stu, to interrupt but on the acquisition, help the customers that you had on one side understand the benefits of the NetFlow integrations and the NetFlow customers understand the new benefits. What is the customer's orientation? What should they do, I mean, how should they understand the new Live Action? >> Yeah, so what we've added on is the ability to diagnose at a significantly deeper level. So, one of the things LiveAction has always been really good at is voice and video, but we do it at a NetFlow level. So, the problem is, when we try to get down to the very granular level, you know, what exactly is going on? Where is it happening? We were blind to that, frankly. Now, with the packet capture technology we can actually go all the way down and capture down to the millisecond and be able to look back over time and understand exactly where the problem occurred. And that allows our users to actually go in and fix it once and for all. >> And what are they solving with that problem? More point problems, solution resolution? Routing, policy, where does the value live? >> It's all of it, it's all of it. Understand where the packets are dropped. Understand we get down to deep packet inspection, so understanding applications and users and who really is having the problem and why. >> Fake news, maybe? Gonna help us identify fake news out there? >> (laughs) Um, I hadn't thought about that yet. >> And the Russian packet. (laughs) (laughing) >> We've been talking in the network the surface area has continued to grow as we push out to the edge, we push out to SAS, push out to public clouds. How's that impacting you and your customers? >> It's, so, we're definitely trying to stay ahead of that with a few things that we've done recently. So, one of them is, for example, we now have an agent that we can deploy onto servers and workstations in mass quantities so you can now get those, kind of, those elements to be fed into your visualization network as well. We also have the ability to deploy that type of concept into the cloud and into SAS applications so we can then get a pulse coming from them. And so we're starting to correlate all of that together into the same type of workflow. >> Yep. >> Guys, take a minute to talk about your relationship with Cisco. Obviously we're here at Cisco Live, their show, they've got their priorities pretty laid out, they've got a lot of work to do and we heard the CEO talk about some of the pressure they're under with the security alone. I mean, they're running huge networks, networks are changing, what are you guys doing next now that you've got your acquisition papered up and you gotta do some, you know, quick integrations and roll out the integrations. How are you taking that to the next level with Cisco? What are some of the things on your radar, on your horizon, that you can share? >> Well, I think we work so closely with Cisco and the Cisco Enterprise networking team that we're often, you know, looking ahead of the curb as far as where we want to develop and invest in next. For example, you see that with the way we're prototyping the SD Access and Cat9k management. So, we did that in Barcelona, actually, about six months ago. So we were the first out with that. We're doing the exact same thing now with DNA Center and with integration with DNA Center. So, they're able to, like, talk about how LiveAction as a third party is integrating into their framework and extending that framework out for a lot of new innovation. >> Your strategy is to go deep with Cisco. You go down as deep as you can, get everyone geared out on the engineering side. You're nodding your head, yeah. >> Absolutely, that's been our strategy since day one. It's been an awesome partnership for us. I think we've been able to bring, you know, a different point of view and also provide validation, you know, a third party perspective for the end user to understand and have confidence on what exactly the network is doing. >> You know, I get this all the time, entrepreneurs in Silicone Valley always ask me about Cisco and Cisco's had a sustained track record of letting partners take big white spaces. To them it's a white space, to a company it's a, you know, it's an IPO potential, so this is a Cisco thing, talk about that dynamic, 'cause you guys seem to be really solving a big problem and they're happy with it. >> Oh, I think what we've, to your point about white space, I think what LiveAction has been able to really effectively do is be a strong partner to complement the solution that Cisco is already putting out there. So as Brooks had mentioned, you know, in our past we worked very closely with the Cisco Prime team and we brought in things like visualization, for example, quality of service configuration, and as the infrastructure began to, I guess, change over time, you know, through ILAN and now into Viptela, you know, we bring the same kind of ideas. We bring the same posture to the party, if you will, meaning that we try to make it, we try to understand what Cisco Product Management is doing and bring what we do best, the situation awareness, visibility, action ability to that. >> Alright, one of my final questions is, bumper sticker the bottom line for your customers. With the acquisition on Friday, with what you guys going on at Cisco, what's the bottom line for your customers? What are they gonna see? What's the immediate headline for the customer? >> So we've, you know, we've adopted this tagline of defining the next generation of network management, and we think we have a very unique position in defining where that market is going now with the acquisition of Savvius and what we're doing with the ability to visualize all of these different elements. There really isn't anybody out there that's doing anything close to that as far as how we're making it easy to manage increasingly complex networks. It's as simple as that, you know, we've had great conversations here already with many of some of the largest companies in the world and what they're looking for is, I need help, you know, I need help to simplify, right? >> And run at a high level. >> That's right, to kind of deliver the service levels that I'm expected to hold to my, you know, to my Fortune 500 type of enterprise, I need better tools to help me cope with this increasing complexity. >> Alright, Brooks and Darren, I'll put you on the spot with the last question. We're at day one of Cisco Live, what's they big story you see emerging? I know it's day one, we've got two more days, but you can almost see the smoke screen going, the signal's there, what is the top story coming out of Cisco Live 2018, in your opinion? >> I still see software-defined WAN as being massive. I think that, I think I stole his answer. (laughs) But, you know, it's been a topic for such a long time but now we're seeing the implementations happen and it's so exciting because, you know, it's actually bringing real change to networking, something we haven't seen in 10 plus years. >> What's different about SD WAN than the promises were, say, five years ago? That's happening now? >> Well I think now people are actually monetizing them. So now it's enterprise ready, I think Cisco led the whole industry a step forward with the acquisition of Viptela and increased, kind of, the pace of that, of the maturity of those offerings. And now that it's six months in they're being adopted at scale, you have a lot of reference cases now that people are using it, they're getting, deriving the monetary benefit from it, you know, they're taking a step into software-defined and we're kind of in that mainstream adoption phase, is what I would say right now. >> Thanks so much for sharing, great commentary. Congratulations on the success, the new acquisition and the continued integration deep with Cisco. >> Thank you. >> You know, good stuff pays off. Of course, we're here with all the live action coverage. Both LiveAction company and also the live Cube action here at Cisco Live 2018 here. Stay with us, three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back after this short break. >> Thank you, gentlemen.

>>AWS public sector summit here in person in Washington, D. C. For two days live. Finally a real event. I'm john for your host of the cube. Got a great guest Howard Levinson from data bricks, regional vice president and general manager of the federal team for data bricks. Uh Super unicorn. Is it a decade corn yet? It's uh, not yet public but welcome to the cube. >>I don't know what the next stage after unicorn is, but we're growing rapidly. >>Thank you. Our audience knows David bricks extremely well. Always been on the cube many times. Even back, we were covering them back when big data was big data. Now it's all data everything. So we watched your success. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, so there's no, you know, not a big bridge for us across to see you here at AWS public sector summit. Tell us what's going on inside the data bricks amazon relationship. >>Yeah. It's been a great relationship. You know, when the company got started some number of years ago we got a contract with the government to deliver the data brooks capability and they're classified cloud in amazon's classified cloud. So that was the start of a great federal relationship today. Virtually all of our businesses in AWS and we run in every single AWS environment from commercial cloud to Govcloud to secret top secret environments and we've got customers doing great things and experiencing great results from data bricks and amazon. >>The federal government's the classic, I call migration opportunity. Right? Because I mean, let's face it before the pandemic even five years ago, even 10 years ago. Glacier moving speed slow, slow and they had to get modernized with the pandemic forced really to do it. But you guys have already cleared the runway with your value problems. You've got lake house now you guys are really optimized for the cloud. >>Okay, hardcore. Yeah. We are, we only run in the cloud and we take advantage of every single go fast feature that amazon gives us. But you know john it's The Office of Management and Budget. Did a study a couple of years ago. I think there were 28,000 federal data centers, 28,000 federal data centers. Think about that for a minute and just think about like let's say in each one of those data centers you've got a handful of operational data stores of databases. The federal government is trying to take all of that data and make sense out of it. The first step to making sense out of it is bringing it all together, normalizing it. Fed aerating it and that's exactly what we do. And that's been a real win for our federal clients and it's been a real exciting opportunity to watch people succeed in that >>endeavour. We have another guest on. And she said those data center huggers tree huggers data center huggers, majority of term people won't let go. Yeah. So but they're slowly dying away and moving on to the cloud. So migrations huge. How are you guys migrating with your customers? Give us an example of how it's working. What are some of the use cases? >>So before I do that I want to tell you a quick story. I've I had the luxury of working with the Air Force Chief data officer Ailene vedrine and she is commonly quoted as saying just remember as as airmen it's not your data it's the Air Force's data. So people were data center huggers now their data huggers but all of that data belongs to the government at the end of the day. So how do we help in that? Well think about all this data sitting in all these operational data stores they're getting it's getting updated all the time. But you want to be able to Federated this data together and make some sense out of it. So for like an organization like uh us citizenship and immigration services they had I think 28 different data sources and they want to be able to pull that data basically in real time and bring it into a data lake. Well that means doing a change data capture off of those operational data stores transforming that data and normalizing it so that you can then enjoy it. And we've done that I think they're now up to 70 data sources that are continually ingested into their data lake. And from there they support thousands of users doing analysis and reports for the whole visa processing system for the United States, the whole naturalization environment And their efficiency has gone up I think by their metrics by 24 x. >>Yeah. I mean Sandy carter was just on the cube earlier. She's the Vice president partner ecosystem here at public sector. And I was coming to her that federal game has changed, it used to be hard to get into you know everybody and you navigate the trip wires and all the subtle hints and and the people who are friends and it was like cloak and dagger and so people were locked in on certain things databases and data because now has to be freely available. I know one of the things that you guys are passionate about and this is kind of hard core architectural thing is that you need horizontally scalable data to really make a I work right. Machine learning works when you have data. How far along are these guys in their thinking when you have a customer because we're seeing progress? How far along are we? >>Yeah, we still have a long way to go in the federal government. I mean, I tell everybody, I think the federal government's probably four or five years behind what data bricks top uh clients are doing. But there are clearly people in the federal government that have really ramped it up and are on a par were even exceeding some of the commercial clients, U. S. C. I. S CBP FBI or some of the clients that we work with that are pretty far ahead and I'll say I mentioned a lot about the operational data stores but there's all kinds of data that's coming in at U S. C. I. S. They do these naturalization interviews, those are captured in real text. So now you want to do natural language processing against them, make sure these interviews are of the highest quality control, We want to be able to predict which people are going to show up for interviews based on their geospatial location and the day of the week and other factors the weather perhaps. So they're using all of these data types uh imagery text and structure data all in the Lake House concept to make predictions about how they should run their >>business. So that's a really good point. I was talking with keith brooks earlier directive is development, go to market strategy for AWS public sector. He's been there from the beginning this the 10th year of Govcloud. Right, so we're kind of riffing but the jpl Nasa Jpl, they did production workloads out of the gate. Yeah. Full mission. So now fast forward today. Cloud Native really is available. So like how do you see the the agencies in the government handling Okay. Re platform and I get that but now to do the reef acting where you guys have the Lake House new things can happen with cloud Native technologies, what's the what's the what's the cross over point for that point. >>Yeah, I think our Lake House architecture is really a big breakthrough architecture. It used to be, people would take all of this data, they put it in a Hadoop data lake, they'd end up with a data swamp with really not good control or good data quality. And uh then they would take the data from the data swamp where the data lake and they curate it and go through an E. T. L. Process and put a second copy into their data warehouse. So now you have two copies of the data to governance models. Maybe two versions of the data. A lot to manage. A lot to control with our Lake House architecture. You can put all of that data in the data lake it with our delta format. It comes in a curated way. Uh there's a catalogue associated with the data. So you know what you've got. And now you can literally build an ephemeral data warehouse directly on top of that data and it exists only for the period of time that uh people need it. And so it's cloud Native. It's elastically scalable. It terminates when nobody's using it. We run the whole center for Medicaid Medicare services. The whole Medicaid repository for the United States runs in an ephemeral data warehouse built on Amazon S three. >>You know, that is a huge call out, I want to just unpack that for a second. What you just said to me puts the exclamation point on cloud value because it's not your grandfather's data warehouse, it's like okay we do data warehouse capability but we're using higher level cloud services, whether it's governance stuff for a I to actually make it work at scale for those environments. I mean that that to me is re factoring that's not re platform Ng. Just re platform that's re platform Ng in the cloud and then re factoring capability for on uh new >>advantages. It's really true. And now you know at CMS, they have one copy of the data so they do all of their reporting, they've got a lot of congressional reports that they need to do. But now they're leveraging that same data, not making a copy of it for uh the center for program integrity for fraud. And we know how many billions of dollars worth of fraud exist in the Medicaid system. And now we're applying artificial intelligence and machine learning on entity analytics to really get to the root of those problems. It's a game >>changer. And this is where the efficiency comes in at scale. Because you start to see, I mean we always talk on the cube about like how software is changed the old days you put on the shelf shelf where they called it. Uh that's our generation. And now you got the cloud, you didn't know if something is hot or not until the inventory is like we didn't sell through in the cloud. If you're not performing, you suck basically. So it's not working, >>it's an instant Mhm. >>Report card. So now when you go to the cloud, you think the data lake and uh the lake house what you guys do uh and others like snowflake and were optimized in the cloud, you can't deny it. And then when you compare it to like, okay, so I'm saving you millions and millions if you're just on one thing, never mind the top line opportunities. >>So so john you know, years ago people didn't believe the cloud was going to be what it is. Like pretty much today, the clouds inevitable. It's everywhere. I'm gonna make you another prediction. Um And you can say you heard it here first, the data warehouse is going away. The Lake house is clearly going to replace it. There's no need anymore for two separate copies, there's no need for a proprietary uh storage copy of your data and people want to be able to apply more than sequel to the data. Uh Data warehouses, just restrict. What about an ocean house? >>Yeah. Lake is kind of small. When you think about this lake, Michigan is pretty big now, I think it's I >>think it's going to go bigger than that. I think we're talking about Sky Computer, we've been a cloud computing, we're going to uh and we're going to do that because people aren't gonna put all of their data in one place, they're going to have, it spread across different amazon regions or or or amazon availability zones and you're going to want to share data and you know, we just introduced this delta sharing capability. I don't know if you're familiar with it but it allows you to share data without a sharing server directly from picking up basically the amazon, you RLS and sharing them with different organizations. So you're sharing in place. The data actually isn't moving. You've got great governance and great granularity of the data that you choose to share and data sharing is going to be the next uh >>next break. You know, I really loved the Lake House were fairly sing gateway. I totally see that. So I totally would align with that and say I bet with you on that one. The Sky net Skynet, the Sky computing. >>See you're taking it away man, >>I know Skynet got anything that was computing in the Sky is Skynet that's terminated So but that's real. I mean I think that's a concept where it's like, you know what services and functions does for servers, you don't have a data, >>you've got to be able to connect data, nobody lives in an island. You've got to be able to connect data and more data. We all know more data produces better results. So how do you get more data? You connect to more data sources, >>Howard great to have you on talk about the relationship real quick as we end up here with amazon, What are you guys doing together? How's the partnership? >>Yeah, I mean the partnership with amazon is amazing. We have, we work uh, I think probably 95% of our federal business is running in amazon's cloud today. As I mentioned, john we run across uh, AWS commercial AWS GovCloud secret environment. See to us and you know, we have better integration with amazon services than I'll say some of the amazon services if people want to integrate with glue or kinesis or Sagemaker, a red shift, we have complete integration with all of those and that's really, it's not just a partnership at the sales level. It's a partnership and integration at the engineering level. >>Well, I think I'm really impressed with you guys as a company. I think you're an example of the kind of business model that people might have been afraid of which is being in the cloud, you can have a moat, you have competitive advantage, you can build intellectual property >>and, and john don't forget, it's all based on open source, open data, like almost everything that we've done. We've made available to people, we get 30 million downloads of the data bricks technology just for people that want to use it for free. So no vendor lock in. I think that's really important to most of our federal clients into everybody. >>I've always said competitive advantage scale and choice. Right. That's a data bricks. Howard? Thanks for coming on the key, appreciate it. Thanks again. Alright. Cube coverage here in Washington from face to face physical event were on the ground. Of course, we're also streaming a digital for the hybrid event. This is the cubes coverage of a W. S. Public sector Summit will be right back after this short break.

[Music] hello and welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo Alto California I'm John for your host of the cube we're here the very special guest I met while he is CEO of informatica newly appointed CEO about a month ago a little over a month ago had a product before that been with informatics in 2013 informatica went private in 2015 and has since been at the center of the digital transformation around data data transformation data privacy data everything around data and value in AI that made great to see you and congratulations on the new CEO role at informatica so thank you all it's good to be back here John it's been great to follow you and for the folks who don't know you you've been a very product centric CEO your products and CEO as they call it but also now you have a company in the middle of the transformation cloud scale is really mainstream enterprises look at multi cloud hybrid cloud this is something that you've been on for many many years we've talked about it so now that you're in charge you get the ship you get the wheel and you're in your hands were you taking it what is the update of informatica give us the update well thank you solook business couldn't be better I think to give you a little bit of color wavy coming from the last couple of years informatica went through a huge amount of transformation all things trying to transform our business model pivoting to subscription all things heavily bet into cloud the new workloads as we talked about and all things new like AI to give a little bit of color we basically exited it last year with a billion dollars of ARR not just revenue so we're a billion-dollar AR our company and as we pivot it to subscription as subscription business for the last couple of years has been growing north of 55 percent so that's the scale at which we are running multi-billion dollars and if you look at the other two metrics which we keep very click near and dear to hard one is innovation so we are participated in five magic quadrants and we are the leader in all five magic quadrants five one five as we like to call it Gartner Magic Quadrant very very critical to us because innovation in the tech is you know is very important also customer loyalty very important to us so we again were the number one in customer satisfaction continues to grow sore last IDC survey our market share continue to grow and be the number one in all our markets so business couldn't be at a better place where we are and what again some of the business discussed which first method on the Magic Quadrant front it's very difficult the folks that aren't in the club is to understand that to participate in multiple magic quadrants with many many do is hard because clouds horizontally scalable magic partners used to be old IT kind of categories but to be in multiple magic quadrants is the nature of the beast but to be a leader is very difficult because magic question doesn't truly capture that if you just appear play and then try to be cloud so you guys are truly that horizontal brand and and technology we've covered this on the cube so there's no secret but I want to get your comments on to be a leader and today in these quadrants you have to be on all the right waves you've got data warehouses are growing and changing at the rise of snowflake you guys partner with data bricks again machine learning and AI changing very rapidly and there's a huge growth wave behind it as well as the existing enterprises who were you know transforming you know analytics and operational workloads this is really really challenging can you just share your thoughts on why is it so hard what are the some of the key things behind these trends we can analytics I guess you can do if it's just analytics without great but this is a this horizontal data play is not easy can you share why no so yes first we are actually a I would say a very hidden secret we're the only software company and I'll say that again the only software company that was the leader in the traditional world traditional workloads legacy on-premise and via the leader in the cloud workloads not a single software company can say that they were the leader when they were started 27 years ago and there's still the leader in the magic quadrants today our cloud by the way runs at 10 trillion transactions a month scale and obviously we partner with all the hyper scalars across the board and our goal is to be the Switzerland of data for our customers and the question you ask is is a critical one when you think of he business drivers what a customer's trying to do one of them is all all things cloud all things the eye is obviously there but one is all data warehouses are going to cloud we just talked about that moving workloads to cloud whether it is analytical operational basically we have front and center helping customers do that second a big trend in the world of digital transformation is helping our customers customer experience and driving that fueling that is a master data management business so on and so products behind that but driving customer experiences big big driver of our growth and the third one is no large enterprise can live without data governance need a privacy man this is a thing today right you got to make sure that you deliver good governance whether it's compliance oriented or brand oriented privacy and risk management and all three of them basically span the business initiatives that feature into those five magic quadrants our goal is to play across all of them and that's what we do Pat Cal senior had a quote on the cube many years ago he said if you're not on the right wave you could be driftwood its meaning you're gonna get crashed oh sorry well a lot of people have we've seen a lot of companies have a good skill and then get washed away if you will by a wave you're seeing like AI and machine learning we talked a little bit about that you guys are in there I want to get your thoughts on this one is there whenever this executive changes there's always questions around you know what's happening with the company so I want you to talk about the state of informatica because you're now the CEO there's been some changes has there been a pivot has there been a sharpening focus what's going on with informatica so I think I'm cool right now is to scale and hyper scale that's the word I mean we're in a very strong position in fact we use this phrase internally within the company next phase of great we're at a great place and we are chartering the next phase of great for the company and the cool there is helping our customers I talked about these three big big initiatives that companies are investing in data warehousing and analytics going to the cloud transforming customer experiences and data governance and privacy and the fourth one that underpins all of them is all things a I mean as we've talked about before right all of these things are complex hard to do look at the volume and complexity of data and what we're investing in is what we call native ai ai needs data data needs AI as I always said right and we are investing in AI to make these things easy for our customers to make sure that they can scale and grow into the future and what we've also been very diligent about this partnering we partnered very well with the hyper scalars like whether it's AWS Microsoft whether it's GCP snowflake great partner of ours data brick skate part of ours tableau great partner of ours we have a variety of these partners and our cool is always customer first customers are investing in these technologies our goal is to help customers adopt these technologies not for the sake of technologies but for the sake of transforming those three business initiatives I thought you brought up I was gonna ask you the next question but snowflake and data versus data Brooks has been on the cube Holly a great that's a good friend of ours and he's got chops you Stan I'm not Stanford Berkeley he'll kill me with that if it's ow he's but beta Brooks is doing well they made some good bets and it's paying off of them snowflake a rising star Frank's Lubin's over there now they are clearly a choice for modern data warehouses as is any of us redshift how are you working with snowflake how do you take advantage of that can you just unpack your relationship with snowflake it's a it's a very deep partnership our goal is to help our customers you know as they pick these technology choices for data warehousing an example where snowflake comes into play to make sure that the underlying data infrastructure can work seamlessly for them see customers build this complex logic sitting in the old technologies as they move to anything new they want to make sure that that transition migration is seamless as seamless as it can be and typically they'll start something new before they retire something old with us they can carry all of that business logic for the last 27 years their business logic seamlessly and run natively in this case in the cloud so basically we allow them this whole from tool and also the ability to have the best of breed technology in the context of data management to power up these new infrastructures where they are going let me ask you the question around the industry trends what are the top and trends industry trends that are driving your business and your product direction and customer value look digital transformation has been a big trend and digital transformation has fueled all things like customer experiences being transformed so that remains a big vector of growth I would say cloud adoption is still relatively literally inning so no you love these balls we can still say what second third inning as much as we would like to believe cloud has been their customers mode with their analytical workloads first still happening the operational workloads are still in its very very infancy so that is still a big vector of growth and and a big trend that we see for the next five plus years and you guys in the middle of that oh absolutely yeah absolutely because if you're running a large operational workload it's all about the data at the end of the day because you can change the app but it's the data that you want to carry the logic that you've written that you want to carry and we participate in that I have ashes before but I want to ask you again because I want to get the modern update because pure cloud born in the cloud like you know startups and whatever it's easy to say that do that everyone knows that hybrid is clear now everyone that sees that as an architectural thing Multi cloud is kind of a state of I have multiple clouds but being true multi-cloud a little bit different maybe downstream conversation but certainly relevant so as cloud evolves from public cloud hybrid and maybe multi or certainly multi how do you see those things evolving for informatica well we believe in the word hybrid and I define hybrid exactly as these two things one is hybrid is multi cloud you can have hybrid clouds second is hybrid means you're gonna have ground and cloud interoperate for a period of time so to us we sit in the center of this hybrid cloud trend and our goal is to help customers go cloud native but make sure that they can run whatever was the old business that they were running as much possible in the most seamlessly before they can at some point cut over and which is why as I said I've been our cloud native business a cloud platform which we call informatica intelligent cloud services runs at scale globally across the globe by the way on all hyper scalars at ten plus trillion transactions a month but yet we will allowed customers to run their own Prem technologies as much as they can because they cannot just rip the band-aid over there right so multi cloud ground cloud our goal is to help customers large enterprise customers manage that complexity their AI plays a big role because these are all very complex environments and our investment in AI our REI being called Claire is to help them manage that as in an as automated way as seen this away and to be honest the most important thing for them is in the most governed way because that's where the biggest risk risks come into play that's where our investments let's say what customers per second I want to get your thoughts on this because at Amazon reinvent last year in December it was a meme going around on the queue that we that we start on the cube called if you think the tea out of cloud native it's cloud naive and so the the the point was is to say hey doing cloud native makes sense in certain cases but if you're not really thinking about the overall hybrid and the architecture of what's going on you kind of could get into a night naive situation so I asked any of this and I want to ask you any chat so I'll ask you the same question is that what would be naive for a customer to think about cloud so they can be cloud native or operate in a cloud what are some of the things they should avoid so they don't fall into that naive category now you've been you know I hey I'm doing cloud yeah for clouds sake I mean so there's kind of this perception have you got to do cloud right mm-hmm what's your view on cloud native and how does people avoid the cloud naive label it's it's a good question I think to me when I talk to customers and hundreds of them across the globe is I meet them in a year is to really think of their cloud as a reference architecture for at least the next five years if not I'm a technology changes think of a reference architecture for the next five years and in that you got to think of multiple best-of-breed technologies that can help you I mean you got to think best-of-breed as much as possible now you're not going to go have hundreds of different technologies running around because you got to scale them but think as much as possible that you are Best of Breed yet settled to what I call a few platforms as much as possible and then make sure that you basically have the right connection points across different workloads will be optimal for different let's say cloud environments analytical workload and operation workload a financial workload each one of them will have something that will work best in somewhere else right so to me putting the business focus on what the right business outcome is and working you will be back to what cloud environments are best suited for that and building that reference architecture thoughtfully with a five-year goal in mind then jumping to the next most exciting thing hot thing and try to experiment your way through it that will not scale would be the right way to go yeah it's not naive to be focusing on the business problems and operating it in a cloud architecture this is what you're saying okay so let's talk about like the customer journey around AI because this has become a big one you guys been on the AI way for many many years but now that it's become full mainstream enterprise how are the applications software guys looking at this because if I'm an enterprise and I want to go cloud native app to make my apps work yes apps are driving everything these days and you guys play a big role data is more important than ever for applicants what's your view on the app developer DevOps market so to me the big chains of VC in fact we're gonna talk a lot about that in a couple of months when we are at informatica world our user conference in May is how data is moving to the next phase and it's what developers today are doing is that they are building the apps with data in mind first data first apps I mean if you're building let's see a great customer service app you gotta first figure out what all data do you need to service a customer before you go build an app so that is a very fundamental shift that has happened and and in that context what happens is that in a cloud native environment obviously you have a lot of flexibility to begin with that bring data over there and DevOps is getting complemented by what we see is data ops having all kinds of data available for you to make those decisions as you build an application and in that discussion you're near having before is that there is so much data that you will not be able to understand that investing in metadata so you can understand data about the data I called metadata as the intelligent data if you're an intelligent enterprise you gotta invest in metadata those are the places where we see developers going first and from their ground up building what we call apps that are more intelligent apps of the future not just business process apps cloud native versus cloud naive connotation we were just having is interesting you talk about Best of Breed I want to get your thoughts on some trends we're seeing seeing even in cybersecurity with RSA coming up there's been consolidation you saw our Dell Jesolo RSA 2 private equity company so you starting to see a lot of these shiny new toy type companies being consolidated in because there's too much for companies to deal with you're seeing also skills gaps but also skills shortages there's not enough people oh now you have multiple clouds you got Amazon you got Azure you got Google GCP you've got Oracle IBM VMware now you have a shortage problem true so this is putting pressure on the customers so with that in mind how are the customers reacting to this and what is best to breed really mean so that is actually a very good point look we all live in Silicon Valley so we get excited about the latest technology and we have the best of skills here even though we have a skills problem over here right think about as you move away from Silicon Valley and you start flying and I fly all over the world and you start seeing that if you're in the middle of nowhere there is not a whole lot of developers who understand the latest cutting-edge technology that happens here our goal has been to solve that problem for our customers look our goal is to help the developers but as much as possible provide the customers the ability to have a handful of skilled developers but they can still take our offerings and we abstract away that complexity so that they are dealing only at a higher level the underlying technology comes and goes and you know it will come and go 100 times they don't have to worry about that so our goal is abstract away the underlying changes in technology focus at the business logic layer and you can move you can basically run your business for over the course of 20 years and that's what we've done for customers customers were invested with us have run their businesses seamlessly for two decades three decades while so much technology has changed with a period of time and the cloud is right here scaling up so I want to get your thoughts on the different clouds I see Amazon Web Services number one the cloud hyper scalar we're talking pure cloud that gets more announcements more capabilities then you got a sure again hyper scale trying to catch up to Amazon more Enterprise focused are doing very very well on the enterprise I was I said on Twitter they're mopping up the enterprise because it's easy to have an install base there they've been leveraging your very well stuff in atella has done team done a great job that you got Google trying to specialize and figure out where they're gonna fit Oracle IBM everyone else as you'd have to deal with this you're kind of an arms dealer in a way with data I would love to say no hands but not absolute I'm dealing that's the bad analogy but you get my point you have to play well you have to it's not like an aspiration show your requirements you have to play and operate with value in all the clouds one how is that going and what are the different clouds like well I always begin with the philosophy that its customer first you go with the customers a queen and customers choose different technologies for different use cases as deems fit for them our job is to make sure our customers are successful so we begin with the customer in mind and we solve from there number two that's a big market there is plenty of room for everybody to play of course there is competition across the board but plenty of room for everybody to play and our job is to make sure that we assist all of them to help at the end of the day our joint customers we have great success stories with all of them again you get in mind the end customer so that has always been informatic as philosophy customer first and we partner with a critical strategic partners in that context and and we invest and we've invested with all of them deep partnerships of all of them they've all been at informatica well you've seen them so again as I said and I think the easiest way we obviously believe they do this incident of data but keep the customer in mind all the time and everything follows from there what is multi-cloud me to your customers if your customer centric obviously we hear people say yeah I use this for that and I get that when I talk to CIOs and see says with his real dollars and interact on the business there tends to be a gravitational pull towards one cloud a lot of people are building their own stacks in house development has shifted to be very DevOps I'm cloud native and then I'll have a secondary cloud but they recognize that they have multiple clouds but they're not spreading their staff around for the reasons around skill shortage yeah are you seeing that same trend and to what do you see is multi cloud well it is 1d cloud I think I think people sometimes don't realize they're already in a multi cloud world I mean you have so many SAS applications running around right look around that so whether you have work day with your salesforce.com and I can keep going on and on and on right there are multiple similarly multi platform clouds are there right I mean people are using hash or for some use case they may want to go a dime us for certain other negative use cases so quite naturally customers begin with something to begin with and then the scale from there but they realize as we as I talk to customers I realize hey look I have use cases and they're optimally set for some things that are multi-cloud and they'll end up there but they all have to begin somewhere before they go somewhere so I have multiple clouds which I agree with you by the way and talking about this one cube a lot there's multi multiple clouds and then this interoperability among clouds I mean remember multi-vendor back in the old days multi-cloud it kind of feels like a multi vendor kind of value proposition but if I have Salesforce or workday in these different clouds in Amazon where I'm developing or Azure what is the multi cloud interoperability is it the data control plane what problems are the customers facing and the challenge that they want to turn into opportunities do a good example multi-cloud see a good example one of the biggest areas of growth for us is helping a customers transform the customer experience now if you think about an enterprise company that is thinking about having a great understanding of their customer now just think about the number of places that customer data sets one of the one of the big areas of investment viability the CRM product called salesforce.com right good customer data sits there but there could be where ticketing data sets there could be where marketing data sits there could be some legacy applications the customer data sits in so many places more often than not we realize when we talk to a customer it sits in at least 20 places within an enterprise and then there is so much customer data sitting outside of the firewalls of an enterprise right clickstream data where people had parts or shared a partner data so in that context bringing that data together becomes extremely important for you to have a full view of your customer and deliver a better customer experience from there so it is the cost the customers have the problem it's a huge problem right now huge problem right now across the board where cup a per customer like hey I want to serve my customer better but I need to know my customer better before I can serve them better so we are squarely in the middle of that helping and B being the Switzerland of data being fully understanding the application layer and the platform layer we can bring all that stuff and through the lens of our customer 360 which is fueled by our master data management product we allow customers to get to see that full view and from there you can service them better give them a next best offer or you can understand their lives either full lifetime value for customer so on and so forth so that's how we see the world and that's how we help our customers in this really fragmented cloud world that's your primary value proposition it's a huge value proposition and again as I said always think customer first I met you got your big event coming up this spring so looking forward to seeing you there I want to get your take as now that you're looking at the next great chapter of informatica what is your vision how do you see that twenty miles stare out in the marketplace as you execute again your product oriented CEO because your product chops now you're leading the team what's your vision what's the 20 mile stair well as simple as possible we're gonna double the company our goal is to double the company across the board we have a great foundation of innovation we put together and we remain paranoid all the time as to where and we always start to look where the world is going serve our customers and as long as we have great customer loyalty which we have today have the foundations of great innovation and a great team and culture at the company which we fundamentally believe in we basically right now have the vision of doubling the company that's awesome well really appreciate you taking the time one final question I want to get your thoughts on you know it's looking valley and in the industry starting to see Indian American executives become CEOs you now see you have informatica congratulations Arvind over at IBM sathi natella this has been a culture of the technology for generations I remember when I broken the business in the late 80s 90s this is the pure love of tech and the and the meritocracy of Technology is at play here this is a historic moment it's been written about but I want to get your thoughts on how you see it evolving and advice for young entrepreneurs out there future CEOs what's it take to get there what's it like what's your personal thoughts well first of all it's been a humbling moment for me to lead in from it's a great company and a great opportunity I mean I can say like it's the true Americans dream I mean I came here in 1998 I mean as a lot of immigrants Ted didn't have much in my pocket I went to business school I was deep in loans and and I believed in the opportunity and I think there is something very special about America and I would say something really special about Silicon Valley where it's all about at the end of the day value it's all about meritocracy the color of your skin and your accent and your those things don't really matter and I think we're such an embracing culture typically over here and my advice to anybody is that look believe and I genuinely use that word and I've gone through stages in my life where you sometimes doubt it but you have to believe and stay honest what you want and look there is no substitute to hard work sometimes luck does play a role but there is no substitute artwork and at the end of the day good things happen as we say that for the love of the game love attack your tech athlete love to love to interview and congratulate been great to follow your career get to know you and informatica it's great to see you at the helm thank you John pleasure being here I'm John 4 here is cube conversation in Palo Alto getting the update on the new CEO from informatics at MIT Walia friend of the cube and of course a great tech athlete and now running the great company I'm John forever here thanks for watching [Music] you [Music]

>> No, that makes total sense. You've got me thinking a little bit. You see some of this right now going on general fitness and these thirty six minute classes will fit thirty six is awesome there. Big group No. One, their trainers. And they do a really good job of it. But the onset of maybe not such, um, high intensity aspects that you're doing. But you're promoting motor patterns, right? So it's not like, Okay, let's train for thirty six minutes. Generally was trained for forty five minutes. Let's train for an hour. But let's have a specific program that we're picking on to develop an athlete and push him in direction. So I mean by that is, I kind of see this in this is my attempt to digest cores. Mind not break it down and bring her with me. I thought you'd like to roost e a seven day period. And then you said in this period, I want to accomplish, you know, thiss five sets off total or five sets of ten reps and back squat and then your micro dose in mind like you, you slice it up, and so all of a sudden it doesn't become a five by ten because fifty total wrapped trying to get you won't take that ten reps here and twenty wraps here and maybe five reps here, and you put it in different ways. So if you look at it holistically, it's this very on the certainly first. See, it looks almost just organized, but looks like a lot happening at once. When you take us back, you look at a full truck, the full pies there, and so people they come and see me one of your workout So they see on Instagram that, oh, it's just Korea Doing, you know, appears to be basic patterns that kind of seem random. But really, you said, Okay, this is my goal. This is what I want from these guys and you're taking a step back. You applied it in a very strategic way. So it's not just people say, Oh, it's a fitness class. No, First off, Micro does seem just That's if I like, you know, a thirty minute workout. It's a thirty minute directed work out with the candle quantifiable goal over Baghdad, a period of time. Is that a fair assessment? I dove into the brain of Cory. No, my deal >> looked like this. Lookit. Let's look at another population. We look at prisoners when they go to the yard. How much time do they have a day? All right, >> You know what, >> Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's not a lot like they're locked up in a cell for the whole day. So when they go to the yard, they go ham on whatever's available, it ain't like they got this nice little hole like, Okay, we're going to do from squads. And they were gonna go to bench and they were going to Arlo, and we're going to do no. They pick something that is available and they go ham on it for an hour, and they're on really terrible food and really terrible environments, but tend to get really strong. Okay, well, that makes sense. So and you know what? They do it again the next day and the next day and the next day. So I'm not saying we're trained like prisoners, But what I'm saying is there's a reason why if I was to tell any elite level lifter, OK? All you can do today for thirty minutes is squad. What do you think's gonna happen? They're going to go heavy often. And they're going to be able to be fresh the next day to do the same thing. I mean, no one leaves a power lifting meet the next day saying, Oh, time to go train again. No, their body is trashed, right? Because of all the intensity that they didn't through multiple movements. Same idea, right? All I'm doing is isolating it. So, for instance, I'm looking for a specific response. If I want to train relative string, I want to find a movement that they can move a lot of way, obviously not through a high speed. And that's the movement we're going to do. If I want a absolute velocity, for instance, Woodchuck and Tendo terms, I want them to be very elastic. Reactive owned him to move very, very fast. Then I'm gonna pick a movement, say, like a barbell squad job. Maybe it's a credible swing. Maybe it's throws and then they're going to go ham on that. But if you just take that one isolated lift, I don't care. If you do tend doubles at it, you're not going to be that sword, especially if you've been doing this for over a year. First start the preseason. We gotta look at stress holistically. The biggest stress they have is basketball. So the last thing I'm going to do is beat them down. And here I'm just going to make sure that we'Ll stay on the cart. So you look at our total volume. It looks something like four sets of four. But by the time we're at the end of the season January, February, March, we're hitting our P R's and reason why we're hit Rp. Ours is because we've made this huge reservoir of stress that they're able tto handle. So now practises cut in half. So I have more reserves in the weight room. So that force that's afore we were hitting for those compound movements in preseason. Well, now they look like ten sets of doubles or twelve sets of singles because they have that reservoir. So now we're expressing in a controlled environment faster weights have your weights at the time of year that we're looking for those adaptations so that now we're quote unquote stronger and faster. We're trying to win the championship, not tryingto win it and the summer, which you generally see like thereby sent PR is before they go home and summer. Well, that's great. And then they go into their maintenance program for the season, which last six months. Can you maintain anything for longer than six? No, you can't, like, maybe your oil, but you've not wantto patients, you know? I'm saying so. You know, that's that's where it really came down to is I'm trying to find the best means to produce performance, >> so I'm on times Lower standard. Yeah. Please do not mind around it. So I get it correct. Nowhere earthly it's looking at How do we given work out at that? Fits? The current state needed the athlete, so Okay, there begin the year, right? Their capacity only so localize outside stressors to fit in the workout around the other twenty three hours. Right? And then you're applying a stressor that's heavy enough, but not too light. And you do it. I'm not not overly fatigued them, but at least stimulate them. So you working guide rails? Not a written in stone. A type of thing, >> right? Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. How Basically how I how I keep the best part of the best way to put it is what I've done this year that I haven't done in the past is abuse Tendo Units, I'm just That's my way of just monitoring. How about speed? Okay, Cool, because load is one thing. But once again, how do you move that load now? We're not We're not dicing up like, Oh, it's point seven. You're supposed to hit point five like up. You know, add thirty kilos or vice versa, right? Like you're not exact. But if you're within a range, it gives me a whole lot of details, all right? And then you're basically all we do from that point is record the wait, not the speed. I just keep them in a certain zone. Stay within this. You, for instance, our strength speed or a relative strength and strength. Speed movements can't go anything more than triples our speed, strength and are absolute velocity. You can't go anything over five reps. If you hit quote unquote those triples or those fives, then the next time you come in, guess what we get to upload if you're not above that was going to stick with the same load. And if you prove it within your early work sex, then we'LL have a little bit alert. But that's our way of day to day, keeping them on the road, if you will. >> No, that makes sense. Do I couldn't agree more. I see it carrying over so well. Universally way you looked at the origins of strength training and we're like Oh, came from Russia and even your ever pashanski for those people aren't nerds like myself. Russian sports science even started like appeared ization. It's kind of a made up thing, right? So one hundred percent made up haven't made up and it kind of came from the four years cycle of Russia itself. America takes that andan. What happens is you get the the non athlete world's intelligent public world. Everything is monetized, right? So it's like, Okay, we know that training really heavy every days and probably a good. So we're going to make these things called, you know, in small little workouts that might last twenty five minutes are our six minutes, you know, have a shrink it as Lois and possibly can. But no, let's make it not necessarily difficult, but challenging. Um and we make money office. We labeled something different and you see different fitness fads come off when I come and go. But a lot of because I got the capitalistic market monetization. People try to make money off of things. But that really does him from, like the athletic side. If you're thinking about Hey, I'm Cory. I'm dealing with Alex. I don't know how they're going to walk into my door today. I don't know if they're going to be high lower, you know, just normal. How can I then give myself the opportunity to provide environment where they can work successfully and and what you do, which is really cool, And I find it really inspiring kind of cheesy word. But you give a lot of ownership to all your athletes when it comes to selection of exercises and movements. And I find that to be something that we don't say. We as in the general world of anything sports, science and fitness don't always like to do. Um, and you say Okay, you know, credit. I'm wrong, Corey to I don't want take worth mountains, him incorrectly. Just so you know, here's a pattern and maybe select one of these three exercises that you feel like gets you ready. And what's so great about that? It removes the constraints of this exercise is the best. You know, this is the golden exercise and really, I mean you and I know it, but we want to feel good. We would always have a bench press when I came in town, but absolutely, it's like, Okay, let's let's really understand that it's not really a difference between Aback Squad versus upfront squad versus may be something of a trap, our poll, especially if you're using it to get the athlete ready. So talk. If you could talk a little bit about how you decide some of that and what led you down that path and giving those athletes that kind of ownership and understanding of you know, I want to do this versus I have to >> do this right? I mean, to me, autonomy is everything, because what you generally see and it's to me, it's almost criminal is everyone gets the piece of paper. They fill it out with me you get, then you do the same thing, right? You get that piece of paper the next day, fill it out. Get that piece of paper. Next thing, fill it out. And then four years later you go. Well, I'm leaving now. Where's my piece of paper For the rest of my life. Oh, so you didn't really learn how to train, did you? You didn't really learn what worked for you. You didn't really In the really issue is like I deal with crazy, different levers. I mean, I got guys that are five eight all the way to seven foot. So you can't tell me there's a golden exercise that it doesn't exist in my world. >> I >> like knowing you're on. I would love to have everybody do the exact same thing. They love doing it. And they all do it very, very well so that I can have my little lab and I can have my control and I can show. Hey, guys, look how much better we got this year because of my implementation. Bax Wass What? What does that say? That says that I care more about what I'm doing more than what's best for that athlete and what they're doing if you really the real reason why I got to this autonomy stage is when I realized what I do is such a small percentage of their overall success and the reason why I say that I'm not necessarily saying I agree with hit or disagree with Hit, but you could have a hit program. You could have an Olympic based program. You could have your holistic based program, whatever you want to say, and I see the hit program Win a national championship and I'm like, what happened? Like I don't agree with that program, but they won well, it's all about it's all about the dude's. So if I can give quote unquote my dudes the best training environment that works for them. So what I mean by that is Look, here's a squad. You hate doing back squats because the bar on your back, it's jerking the hell out of your shoulders because you don't like to be an external rotation will. Then maybe I'm just going to hate. How about this Bar safety squad bar that feel better? Cool court. My knees are super tender away. It's basketball. Everybody's needs at some point this season, every a super tender last thing I'm going to do is put them in an environment. Teo, flame up those tendons so that they can't perform at a higher level on the basketball court. So what are we going to do? Well, let's Hinch, how about we just do some already? L stay. How about we do some kettle bell swings? Maybe some tribe are dead. Lift. It doesn't necessarily have to be this golden exercise that everybody fits in. And I think really what it stands from is that strength coaches got approved to their sport coaches that we'll look at, our numbers go up and they have to have a control to do that. And the exact opposite. It's a sport. Coaches coming down saying one of our guys bench. Well, if our sport coaches cares so much about bench press, well, then what do you think I got to do? Well, I gotta bench my guys so we could get those numbers so I could look like, you know, I'm validated my job. Well, how about we take something that's oh, universally accepted. So how about a counter movement? Jump out force plate. Now, I'm not saying everybody has forced plates, but you could just use jump height. Friend sits. Who cares how you got there? As long as you are trending right, that's all that matters. Why should we be fixated to a certain methodology or a certain pattern or not? Pattern but exercise. Just give them a pattern, let him choose. And to be honest with you, if it feels right, it's going to fly, right? If it feels good to do attract bar squat, opposed to doing a front squat well, they're probably gonna put more load and they put more load that I'm going to get the stress response adaptation. If I don't like the front squat because it's choking me the hell out. Well, then I'm probably not going to put his much load on it. Now, I have a negative connotation now have all these internal stress is going on, and then I'm gonna have a weird as look atyou, saying I don't like what we're doing in here. So now you think the quote unquote Byeon is going to be there. So now we're not getting any stresses that are going to give me that positive adaptation I'm looking for. So at the end of the day, if I can give them the education tto, learn how to do these movements and how to choose for themselves, well, then now it's not just what they did here for four years. I just gave them skills for the rest of their life. And if they're good enough to play pros now, they can take that and they can articulate it to the next coaching stuff so they could do a better >> job. No, that's that's awesome, man like this. A lot of things I want. I head into their I'LL keep it all Diamond all nine hundred promised. But I couldn't agree more and one of things that you say, you know, let's have a king P I They said jump high, for example, a point of reference. Then let's not care what we d'Oh, to the extent I mean not care. But let's not constrain ourselves of what we dio in order to improve that k p I. So the way I think about it, it's kind of like you ever use waze before that? Yes, that we got right. It knows to things and knows where you are. It knows where you were. If you're driving, it knows where you're going. Road. And then as okay, all I care about getting to point B So it will take you on detours left and right. Little Granny is driving slow in front of you for the pothole. If whatever is going to find the best way to get there, it doesn't care how it gets there, right, Right. And so work that it's say, OK, let's get the sevens environment where we can learn. And we know we need to get to be for me. And I'm not gonna say to go in a straight line because you might go through building and crashing hit pedestrians. We're gonna find a way to get to be. We're going to find a way that makes sense for the athlete and yourself. So my teaching them, you know, let's have you like and learn to do some of these movements then don't know taking a left at this next stop light to get to point B will be quicker than you saying go straight because they're the one in the driver's seat, right? And if that educational environment where you start to look at this a really complex system, her planting a really simple abie model and apply it to something as complex as the human body so that we can learn. And the example I give. It's like, you know, the ways part like, that's the more complex and assumptions we make more room for aeri half All right, we'Ll screw this. We assume that the sumo gets here. Well, if we assume in order to get to A to B, we got a one a two a three a four, a five. But any point on the line that, you know, assumption breaks, we don't get to be all right, you guys, you stuck at a whatever and doing. You know, we have to follow this waterfall method. It's very much a living method where things come in, things come out, things make you change. But you know what? You want to go? I >> mean, it's we work in team sports. Like the only objective we are the only objective that matters is wins and losses, period. Right? So if I wasn't a stopwatch sport, maybe my mind would change a little bit, right? Maybe I got okay. We need to drift towards this because literally it's did you get faster? Did you not get faster? Right? Swimming whatever you're doing, maybe these are the things we need to do more often to make that happen. But I'm dealing with incompetent. I mean great human beings, but just physically incompetent. There's still learning about their bodies were still growing into their bodies. I think it's the most arrogance thing that a strength coach could do is to say, Here's a program that's gonna get you better for six weeks. What? What is that? Even here's a block that's going to get youto point me. How do you know Like, till you know Saddamist like, can you honestly tell me that following this six week plan is doing that? Hey, they got sport practice. They got exams, they got pick up your tell me none of those factors could potentially there off your little plan or that your little plan can go up. They're KP eyes, if you will, or their Their goal is just a play basketball. So that to me, that's where as this thing, it's like the most arrogant thing in our field and it just drives me up the wall. But the other day, like I got a sport coach who has all the faith in the world of me gives me the keys to the castle. He just tells me, Do what you think is best. I I report the numbers that he doesn't even know he needs. That's what's awesome about he's like Chord. I just trust you like these were things that I want to see my guys do. We want a quote unquote play fast. Well, okay, here's some standards that we can set And these Airways that we know we got quote unquote faster. Now, from the technical tactical aspect, that's where you guys come in and you guys got it. Apply what you think is best to make that happen, right? But I gave you the physical requirements. I told you exactly what you need to get done and how we got there. Now you guys apply the technical tactical aspect. And then there we go. Now we have a happy marriage is long as I can supply valuable information. It doesn't matter what the information ISS, and that's where everybody gets stuck on these controlled environment numbers like like looking, swatting inventions like Who cares? Like Who cares about written load? Load gets you to here right after that, it's all about It's all about speed. It's all about rhythm coordination, your vestibular system that there's so many things that go into making. You better not just, uh, put three fifteen on the back squat suite. No, >> that's you know. Yes, yes, I agree. I'm not going to deviate too far. My ma, you know how I work or my mind races and I don't go in straight lines. I apologized immediately. Good. I was thinking about your friend mentioned earlier. It was everything that this lately, too. People who've been the private sector's I work in personal training, and I worked in exercise clinic for two and a half years. Iowa State, where don't older adults randall off cool testing on them. But ultimately they showed up because they enjoy it. And one things that I think we I don't mean We have everybody some people forget is that it needs to be enjoyable back. And when you're in a private sector and you're literally your food is the ability for something to come back to you. Hey, it's really different and you start. You said Okay, you know what exercise and movement do you like, and then you manipulate How do I make that exercise the most effective exercise for that person? And that's what you kind of mentioned with the educational process for your athletes. You're taking this approach. Where? How did you get them to win? Firstly, they gotta want to be here, but they don't want to be who I try hard. And secondly, no Adam, take ownership of these movements. I really like that concept because it's really melting in the world of Hey, you're here. You have to get better. But everyone knows when you want to get better. Vs have to get better, right? The be out a little different and unusual marks Lefton excited to move. I just keep thinking about that from like the private side. That's really where, like the general public, and you could deal with great Alan to deal with a lot of athletes who really want to be there. But unfortunately, majority the world doesn't want to work out like they're they're not interested, and I hate to make an assumption, but it's hard not to think that it's either them not knowing or them intimidated that have to do something in there, right? Right. I'm like that mindset a beam to apply. Okay, let's have an ownership model that drives it, because if you talk to people, her successful personal trainers, they have a way to make sure people come back. Oh, for should join a box in a way that a strength coach you're no environment might not even have to be exposed to just because it's the nature of >> well, for me, like the off season. I mean, when I get a freshman, that's a great thing about basketball. But I get a freshman. I mean, maybe they picked up some weights like a B. There's still just such a greenhorn in the weight room. They don't know what's good and what's bad, right? So, essentially the off season is a little bit of dictatorship like Sorry, I'm to tell you what to do because you don't know shit, right? But the goal is to earn that autonomy as well. So, you know, my guys that are kind of like slaps like for the whole offseason. Well, their leashes a lot tighter like Nah, bro, you're going to do this because I know you need to do this. You have earned the right to have that a top. So I want to make sure that that's, like pretty clear, too, because if you just give autonomy all day and there's going to run over you. But the one aspect that I think that is so important with our autonomy is it's my biggest performance enhancer, and I actually had dated Approve it. Like if I just look at my C M J members from our force plates once again. Yes, there are some maybe eight sets of doubles or six sets of triples or whatever, right? But once again, that is Tendo based, like to a certain agree with most of our movement. So you know, it could be a triple. It could be a double. It could be a single. It depends on where they fall in on along those lines, but essentially the flexibility of the sets and wraps, the unbelievable latitude of the movement pattern that they're doing. But yet counter movement jumps in February. They are p r ng, not season. P R's. I'm talking life top ers Guys that have been here for three years are hidden from nineteen point one to twenty six point four. I can't say names the twenty six point four in February. So what does that say? It says that my biggest performance enhancer is the kids saying I want to do that. Cool. That's what we're going to do. >> No, I love it that zik perfect. If you want to be there, you're intense. Going to be high. You're going to try harder. You're going toe actually care about what you d'oh and that mindset really house dr an aspect of performance that otherwise we can't because all internal right korea we really started wrapping up towards the end you buy a couple questions for you before you go yourself thank you i appreciate it it's always good to have you next way clich a weekly cycle korea >> will make a >> record you know fire i slowly thanks for having you guys we wanted to come with because you're a scientist I mean, if you had to share a bitter fight and this is to anybody and this isn't their coach, Jenny, where nobody is looking to enhance their fitness, their performance, um, their overall well being You that with activity, right? How is what would you advise someone to get into and regards Tio training our house to someone Initiate That's on top of the micro dose in a kind of giving that much of credit here, obviously some e How does someone injured? I heard it put that way and I'll get straight to the point that one look into into exercise probably should do some form of micro dose in to see if you even like it everyone to overdose. How do they start that process if they're not athletes per se how they decide where they began? >> Well, essentially is what do you want to end up like, What's the what's the point beyond ways, right? Do you just want to look aesthetically better? How aesthetically do you want to look? Do you wanna look like a big body voter? Do you want to look like a swimmer? What do you want to look like? And I think that the vein than fan ity. And I mean, that's what drives my basketball players there in tank tops here around. Of course, they want nice arms. Right? So there's certain things that you gotta know. Like, I want to look like this. Now, some of the performance guys, Maybe I wantto sprint faster or jump higher. Like that's a whole another aspect. But we're talking about general population number one. What do you wanna look like? Okay, so if I'm three hundred pounds and I want to lose some body fat for my own general health and I want to, you know, be more presentable, if you will. And smaller clothing. Well, then maybe just walking ten minutes every day, and then you start adding layers to it, So Okay, You know what I mean? Killing these walks. How about we go Stairmaster? Okay, that's a little tougher. Okay, how about we introduce maybe some med ball exercises because that's not necessarily too complex to do that. I can do it through different ranges. It's easy to manipulate. Okay, Now, let's take a dumb bill or kettle bill. Then we work our way to a bar bill and now. Oh, man, what do you know? I just dropped one hundred pounds and in them. Oh, before all of that eating. But like, we're just talking about the physical aspects, but as far as that, where do you want to be? Okay, I want to look like Brad Pitt. OK, for one, get plastic surgery. But if you want to look cool air at Brad Pitt and Fight Club Okay, well, these are the things that I need to do. So let's reverse into near the process, okay? He cut his little jack, so that means he's got muscular strength. OK, cool. So that means weights are going to get involved at some point we'll he got really lean for this too. So my general fitness sucks. Maybe I just need to start with walking. Maybe a jump rope, maybe just medicine Ball toss is something that's super easy. The number one. What's going to make me more consistent? What consistency is goingto win? It's not. They'll work out you do that's going to make you go from a counter movement jumped a nineteen point one to twenty six point for It's the consistency that got you there. All right. That was a two year process for that kid. Just to get to that point, right? If you try to hijack the system, if you try to go, I want to get from point A to point Z like that. Well, you're going to run into multiple things. One possibly injury and two. What's the real reason why you're Russian? The real reason why you Russians, Because I don't want to be there in first place. Now you've just ruined the whole concept. Now you've just ruined the journey. To me, that is much more important. Like when I used to be a fake body motor, if you will, that when I try to get ready for shows. I don't remember the show at all. The only thing I remembered was those nights where I was damn hungry those mornings where I had to get up, do my quote unquote fasted cardio meal prep backs without remember only big. How I was on stage for forty five seconds like that was twelve weeks for forty five seconds. Right? So that's where you gotta understand like it's the beauty or what is it that Jake whole line of the beauty is in the is in the cash. Basically what? The thing that you want to fall in love with the most is the adversity that they were going to fall in love with the most is the stressful points. That's what's going to create the beauty, if you will remember that Jake Colon. But essentially, that Google >> search really quick pressure that the Brad Pitt Fight Club I >> mean, that dude was solid, Man, that was a solid right. May like Brad Pitt. He was a pretty boy until fight club. And I was like, Yo, that is some white trash. I would not mess with him. He can go. >> Uh, great. I love it. Lastly, Yeah. Course lesson. Where do we find you? On social media and other venues? Assault media were coming here more than beauty and wonder himself. >> Yeah. So Instagram is probably what you can find me on the most slash strength as C h L E s strength. You could find me there pretty active on it. You want to see so naked cats? So to sphinx, with my beautiful wife and ah, multiple podcast. I'm on a lot of different podcast that you just Google. I, too, are goingto iTunes type in my name. You'LL find many other platforms where I go into a lot more depth about how we train on And then, of course, speaking engagements. I do multiple speaking, engage with the nationally and internationally. And so there's opportunities to meet me in person there. >> There's beauty in the struggle. >> There is beauty in the struggle. This beauty >> I got my end. >> Yes, there is beauty in the struggle. That's when they >> get here in Britain, right? Right there. Where >> you Brooks. But there's beauty in the struggle >> A lasting well, Korea appreciate you have coming on here. I mean, I hope something useful. I >> was one hundred percent. My pleasure, Max. I love working with you, man. >> Now you do. And anybody curious about Corey? I mean, I really encourage checking out his social media. Yeah, I know. It's a lot of crazy stuff on Instagram that is really thought provoking. Put it that way and I can't believe it. Oh, my goodness. I can't let you escape Korea quite yet. >> Well, what you got? >> Uh, whole off the exit. Give me five minutes on it. I was going to ask his social media is going to ask. Yeah, way rehab itself. Yeah, to spring loaded monster man who means you want to share a little bit on this because I know you have been doing this yourself. Yeah, this is it in chorus singer based Achilles program. I love some of the actors. I love thee, not the unloaded foot contact under your hand motion who was seen Alice into this isn't the course in a chair, and he's for lack of better words. Words. MacInnis foot on the floor like a pogo stick and doing extremely extremely unloaded movements early on that site, too early on but in the rehab process itself to introduce low level plyometrics, He's doing band assisted jumps. He's doing isometrics. He's doing heavy squads. He's doing some bar bell curls. All things important for the curies. >> Sure are. Absolutely yeah beyond you. My understandings of the lower leg complex is off the charts because of my injury. So for the viewer's eye, tor macula or a ruptured my Achilles tendon with a full rupture but right at the insertion, which is the very atypical tear because I've been dealing teno sis for over a year before I tore it. So they had it cut me up top to bring me down low, if you will. So usually Achilles ruptures that all they do is bring it together and then tie it. There are. So it through the mind was at the very bottom. So essentially, they had to cut me up top toh length and me and then, uh, suitors through. So is very atypical, which sucks only that that part sucks. Spike. Um, it's not that I am Well, maybe a little bit arrogant, but I honestly want to take full control of my physical therapy because I think that intuitively I understand the process not just of rehab, but of how to increase performance. So all I did was watered down as much of that is possible and truly started as soon as I got to the pain free. And so, yeah, with all the unloaded stuff, it just made sense to me like that's something you just don't see in physical therapy to It's kind of blows. My mind is what's the first thing to go like when you get older? What happens? Will you lose your ability to do very forceful things or to lose power or the ability to generate power. So that's the first thing that came in my mind when I rupture. Or when a Torme Achilles was okay. I need to go back and not be old because essentially, I'm staying still. So if I'm staying still, it's like use it or lose it protocol. So from that perspective, I told myself, I need to move fast at some point. So I started with all my available limbs at the time, just moving fast. Then I progress toe when my suitors seal or excuse me with my I want my wound healed. I got into the pool, so that's the most is about is unloaded. You should get, and all it did was just frail. My leg and there a cz muchas I could through different planes and of course, he has fold up. But of course, it's going to like your adding a stress. And so I just did it Mohr or Mohr. And so I just Kim. Training fast, even though, is the most unloaded way you can do it. And then, like Max was talking about, I got to a seated position and I just started doing be most unloaded pogo jumps you've ever seen or ankle pops or whatever you want to call it. So then I transition to standing on it isometrics, then putting more force into the forefoot isometrics. And then I started using the bands I mean super heavy bands and then just started like Pogo's and then start lighting the bands I went to arm went the body weight. To me, it's like super common sense, but I don't know, maybe the physical world. It doesn't really look at it that way. They look at it and isolation opposed to global. So to me, I knew if I could quickly get back to global patterns that I will be able to promote healing faster. And so, like Chase talked about, his last one ought to be a far protocols. Luckily, I had him as a resource to help me with my healing process, but right now, on that four and a half months, almost five months, and I'm doing some pretty cool things if just to give you a point of reference. Dez Bryant, wide receiver. He tore his a week after mine, and essentially, you guys Essentially, he's What's a similar athletes level athlete? You know, very someone. Uh, actually, he's going to be up until eight to nine months. John Wall tour has a few months after mine. He's going to be an entire year for his process. Boog, Golden State warriors took him a whole year to get back on my goal. If I can get it back and lesson seven months, that means I did something, right? >> No, I love it. Well, that's tough stuff. Get to see if you check out his instagram page. So me, please, dear, do yourself a service. Go check out the man. He's a good dude, Tio. So sometimes no kid. Don't >> you know you're right there, e >> I don't want call corps on a bad day. >> You >> know, it's all good now. I really appreciate it, man. Thanks for being on here. And, uh, again we follow sometime in near future. I feel I'm expecting that shirt. By the way, where is my core bighead T shirt? >> You know, I want to find one of my earlier body building picks, and I'm gonna put it on a T shirts and, Tio, >> I love it. How I rocked the hell out of it. Man, >> you're beard in a most >> and be right here. Yes, right behind. Maybe my postal records slash proposing bronze and gold. You're welcome. You're welcome. An absolutely huge in that >> purple banana hammock to >> Wouldn't ask for another way. What? The full real deal. Korean stage. Ready, you know. Awesome. Well armed man up that thing. You guys, Listen, I appreciate it. Great South Korea on. If we're curious about finding more, check him out on instagram and look for Teo. No doing more. These in near future. >> Awesome. Thanks, Max.

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE! Covering Inforum D.C. 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Good afternoon, and welcome back to the Walter Washington Convention Center, we're at Inforum 2018, here live on theCUBE, John Walls with Dave Vellante, and it's a pleasure now to welcome the CEO of Infor, Charles Phillips with us. Charles, good to see ya! >> Good to see you guys again, another year. It's great, it's great. >> Yeah, I tell ya, you are a man of demand aren't you? I mean, tell me about the week so far for you, how it's gone, and just your overall thoughts about the show? >> Yeah, it's been a fun Inforum for 2018 here. Great attendance, and a lot of energy level, and the common feedback we get is you guys just keep innovating and bringing new things, this is great, and that's why they come, they want to see what we're working on and kind of dream the art of the possible. We know what you, what we think you get a couple years ago, but if we don't have someone pushing us and painting a picture of what we could be doing, and we just think we might be missing it, so we want to hear it first hand. So that's what the conference is about, and hopefully they got that. >> Well, certainly thematically, human potential, you talk about that, you see that on the keynote stage, that's been a very consistent theme with our guests here, we've heard that a lot, you hear it down on the show floor. Talk about the theme if you would, a little bit, in terms of it's development, where that came from, and in how you think that's being expressed here this week. >> Well, we're one of the few companies that build mission critical operational systems, be it manufacturing or hospital operations, but we're also in HCM in a big way. And so we were talking to kind of both sides of the house, for some applications you're talking to the line of business manager, but for HCM you're talking to the CHRO, and rarely were those two people talking, and we saw obvious synergies. Don't you want to know how your people are doing, how to allocate people, and how they're performing, how they're changing the outcomes on a manufacturing floor or in a hospital, and a lot of HR directors weren't thinking like that because they think of HR, and they have their own world, they go to HR conferences and that's it. And the manufacturing guys are the same thing, and so we're trying to bring these two worlds together and say "Actually, you're in the same business, it's the same goals, and you actually could help each other a lot." And so by focusing on putting the employee at the center of all these applications and mapping all these operational processes to HR data, it's a different way of thinking about the role of HR. They can actually help drive the business, not just be an administrative function, and so it's resonating with a lot of the CHROs we met with, 'cause they want a seat at the table, they want to be more strategic, and this is a way for them to do that and at the same time the operational people want to know how their people are doing, want to develop talent, and want to know what are the tools out there I could be doing differently, and how am I doing, and which employees are working the best So, I think we can bring both sides together. >> So I first met Infor through AWS, at re:Invent, Pam Murphy came on, and we were like Infor? Back then it was like 2012, 2013 was kind of Infor who? And then we were invited to New Orleans, and then started to learn more about your micro-vertical strategy and a little bit about the platform, it was somewhat opaque to me. And now, fast forward last year and this year it's really starting to come in to view. The OS, the platform vision, the Birst acquisition, and of course Coleman, and I'm a sucker for platform plays especially when there's real R&D behind it that's actually having a business impact. So I wonder if you could talk about that piece of the strategy, I love the stack, was that sort of always your vision and now you're getting aggressive in it, did it sort of come together serendipitously, how'd we get here? >> Having our own stack and a platform was always the vision, but it's a lot harder to do than it sounds like, and it takes time. And so, when we arrived almost eight years ago, there were different applications, all had their own separate stacks and would say "This is not going to work." So, we need, just to be able to scale, to be able to serve multiple industries with different products, we can't have every development organization building their stack as well. So we set about taking that away from the development groups we're going to do this as a shared service, but it takes time, and as we build it you will adopt components of it. So what's changed is we've built out the entire stack, so, starting with ION, with integration, then we added document management, workflow, analytics, now AI and a lot of other services, Mongoose, platform as a service, on and on and on, in collaboration, those things took time, they're all on a single platform, federated security, single siloed across it all, and now it makes the developers job who's developing apps so much simpler. So they have Infor OS for the immediate platform, for cloud services they have AWS, I don't have to worry about any of those things anymore, just go and develop industry functionality. So, it's come together nicely, but the fact that we had the time to do it and the money to do it, and we weren't public, and we told our investors "This is the only way this is going to scale, this is the future, and it'll pay out later, you just got to trust us." And now that we've gotten there, they're seeing the synergy and go "Okay, now we see why you did that." >> So, Michael Dell's been on theCUBE many times, he used to talk about the 90 day shot clock, we obviously see what he's done in terms of transforming; but I want to talk about your business a little bit, because you've had that patient capital, I mean you're a quasi-public company in the sense that you do report so we can see the numbers on the income statement, but the income statement doesn't really tell the whole story It's about three billion in revenue, several hundred billion dollars on the balance sheet, but if you look at the SaaS component of it it looks rather small, maybe about 25% of the business, but from a booking standpoint I'm sure it's much, much larger than that. So how should we interpret the income statement in terms of the momentum in your business, where is all the action? >> So as a percentage of our sales, it's the highest of any of our competitors, so, about 70% of our new sales are on SaaS, we have about a $700 million SaaS business, so it's growing. There's nothing we can do about the maintenance piece of it, if it's related to perpetual, so if you take that out, it's a big percentage of our business. And over time the maintenance will turn into SaaS, so that's one of our big opportunities to look at that maintenance space and say "Move those over to cloud customers." and that's usually a financially lucrative thing for us to do, because we do even more for them, because they usually add on four or five other products when they move, they replace these third party products and so we get a bigger suite of products if they decide to move to the cloud. So that's part of the strategy, that's what UpgradeX is, let's move you from on-premise, so that maintenance revenue will turn into SaaS revenue, but bigger SaaS revenue over time. >> So let me make sure I understand, so it's not the classic case where you see a lot of software companies that are going from a perpetual model to a ratable model, you're goin' from a maintenance model which is ratable to a ratable model which is SaaS, but there's cohorts sales which increase the top line, is that correct? >> Exactly. So usually, because of what we do, we're doing something mission critical. So if you're going to take that, then you should do ACM financials, all the other things around it. So why would I move to core and leave the edge on-premise? So, almost by definition we have to do the whole suite. So when we do that it expands the deal, 'cause on-premise we may have been one vendor with 30 other ones existing, but the whole reason they want to get out of all of that is to move to the cloud and simplify. So we can't take all that with us, so we have to have the full suites, we've built that now. So now we can move them, but, it expands the size of the deal because we're replacing all these other products. >> Okay, and then some of the stats, just correct me if I don't get this right. Your SaaS business grown 50% faster than Oracle's, growing at a rate, I'd say 2X SAP's and a rate comparable to Workday, are those correct figures? >> Those are correct, and profitable. >> Oh, and profitable. >> Throw that in. (all laugh) >> Right, so okay. And then last year Koch Industries invested, so you kind of recap the company, you've made a big deal about that. One of the things that we've noted is you're seeing a tailwind there in terms of guys like Accenture and Capgemini, we've asked them "Do you guys service Koch Industries?" they said "Yep!" they helped us see the opportunity, and they said "Look, look for something substantive, we're not going to try to force you to do something, but we want you to take a look." So that's been helpful. Talk about that and maybe other things Koch has brought to the table? >> It's a, the relationship with the integrators is evolving, it probably was not a plus for us in the first four, five years. More recent years we've won enough deals where they had to say "Okay, we can't keep losin' these deals." And where they wanted to get engaged. Koch helped, because they had relationships and they wanted to run that business, that's why they're implementing our products globally, and so, they're a large customer for all of these guys, and one of the largest for Deloitte for instance, but what's really more-- that helped, but it was more the, what was happening in the market, the fact that we're in a Liberty Steel and replace SAP, or that we're in a Travis Perkins interview with SAP and Microsoft, so, if you're on the wrong side of those deals enough times your manager starts to ask you what's goin' on, and you got all these people on the bench here, okay, we train them for Infor if they're winning in that region, or in that industry. So, we just had to earn our way into it, our initial strategy was not one that, at least on the surface, looked like it was integrator-friendly because we were trying to take all those mods they like to do and put 'em in the product, and that's the whole thesis, let's the take the vertical industry features and let's put it in there once, I don't want everybody customizing my apps, we do that. And so now they've had to move up, okay we can do other things, configuration, changed management, there's AI, there's other things you can do, but you're not going to do that. So now that they've accepted that, there's a basis for us to work together, and, it just had to take time to get there. >> What can you tell us about where you want to go with this? I mean you've presided over public companies before, you know that business well, you were a rockstar analyst, is there an advantage to being a public company, is that something that you eventually want to do? >> I would say there are pluses and minuses, our board is evaluating that, that's going to be their call. The upside is, it would solve probably our biggest challenge which is brand recognition, almost instantly, because would be a top 10 tech IPO. It makes it a little easier to hire people because they can see public currency, they can value more quickly, and it gives you some acquisition currency; so those are the positives. But then you're on the 90 day cycle, and we're kind of on that anyway, 'cause we report publicly and we have publicly traded bonds. So for us it's, in some sense we have the worst of all worlds, right? We have the discipline of being a public company, and the scrutiny, without the capital, (laughs) and the branding, so. I think that's what everybody's evaluating. Every bank on Wall Street's visiting us telling us to go now, the window's great, you have the numbers. >> Oh, of course. (Dave and John laugh) >> And so, so we could do it, I just don't know what their decision's going to be. The advantages to being private as well, you have a little more flexibility obviously, and, we don't need the capital, we have plenty of capital coming from Koch and others who want to invest. >> Well, the flip side of that too, is you get to write your own narrative, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're talkin' about the nuances of the income statement, the Street is obviously right now hooked on growth heroin, and if you got the transition in the base it doesn't become a tailwind, so, no rush from that standpoint. I want to pivot to the theme of this event, which is the human potential. My understanding is you sort of were instrumental in coming up with that. HCM this year got a big play on stage, where's that come from? >> Yeah, just as I talk to CEOs who are struggling to find talent, like I mentioned on stage 6.7 million jobs that are unfulfilled. It's not like we don't have people here, we have people here with their own skills, so, you're not going to fill those jobs any other way, we're not doing immigration to any degree and scaling more, that's been shut down. We have an aging population with the baby boomers, so the most logical thing that you would do is train people who are already here who want to work. And, let's take people who have jobs that they probably aren't thrilled about, and give them different skills so they can fill these 6.7 million jobs. So to do that, you have to make these applications easier to use, and I felt like we're probably in the best position to do it because we actually know what they do for a living, 'cause we wrote all those last features in those industries, we understand what they do. And if you're just doin' HR replication or financials, you actually have no idea what they do. So, we had to learn those jobs to automate those jobs, so we can find ways to use our HCM applications to better train people, professional development, coaching, take all these HR skills, and put them as part of the applications in the context of while you're working. >> We had Anne Benedict on just a little bit ago talking about really a test case that you can be for yourself. So how are you putting these things to practice yourself, and how are you working out maybe some kinks before you take them out to somebody else? And so, you can leverage your own success for your own success, and also learn from mistakes too I would think. >> We do. So we have this program called Infor at Infor, where everything we do, we want it to be on an Infor product, which was not the case when we arrived. Like a lot of companies, a mish mash of different things, and so we've implemented not only HR Financials of course, Birst, but the big innovation has really been talent science, that every employee we hire has to take that test, and all the executives have taken it as well. And what we've discovered is, is that, when people hire and go against the talent science recommendation, 68% of the time they end up being wrong. So it's better at judging people than people are sometimes, and you can't use it exclusively, but it'll tell you these are the things you should look into, some questions you might want to ask, here's how they rate on certain skillsets, they're very well meshed for this job, they look like they'd see their best performance in this area, but ask these questions. And so people don't know how to interview and how to think about this, and so, having a guide to go into an interview is actually pretty helpful. We hire much better people now by using that. >> So it's like StrengthsFinder in a way? >> No, it's different from that, this is AI, it's kind of Moneyball for business people. >> Well you're talking about that today, almost there. >> Yeah so it's 39 personality attributes, behavioral attributes we call them, so, empathy, resistance to authority, do you have the ambition or not, and depending on the job, you think all those things are good, depends on the job, so. For some jobs, it's actually better to have low ambition because, a lot of our customers who have low wage, fast food service jobs, people who have ambition are going to leave in four months, right? They're not going to stay, so, okay we're not going to be here long, at least know that going in, and know who wants to get promoted, and other people are fine with it. And so it depends on the mix of skills, just like I said, 39 attributes, and for that job role, you tune it to the people who like that job, they look like this. And, we've also found that it's 60% more diverse when you hire using science, because you don't know that when you're looking at the data, what they look like. >> It must've been super interesting getting those reports. You took it, obviously right? >> Yeah I took it. >> How'd you do? (laughs) >> Uhhh, nobody really likes their profile. (all laugh) >> I was going to say, I imagine I would be really defensive about this, oh I don't know. >> This can't be right! >> That is not me! I am not like that! (all laughing) >> Every person on our executive team said the same thing so. That's what it's for is to, you have certain perceptions even about yourself, and it calls it out, right? And there's no gaming the system because the questions have no right or wrong answer, it just puts you in scenarios that you answer what would you do, how do you feel about this? You're not clear what they're trying to get at, and you only have 27 minutes or 22 minutes to do the test. >> So you can't game it? >> You can't game it. >> Data doesn't lie! >> And we built the science, we know when someones trying to game it, they're taking to long on multiples, and changing their answers too much, so it's-- And we've now, I think we've tested some 200 million people over time, over years, so we have 20 years of data about people. >> That's, I mean, sounds unique, certainly unique of being infused into enterprise software, I've not seen anything like this from another enterprise software company. Can you confirm that, or? >> Yeah, so, we're the only ones that do this at scale, there's a few startups trying to do it, but they're trying to do it all facial recognition which is, we think pretty ridiculous, we're trying to get away from physical attributes not use that. So there's a company out there doing that, depending on your facial movements, but this is, we're eliciting responses about your personality in response to situations that we give you, and have a bunch of scientists that crunch the data and they basically shape it to the job role. And they test your best performance, and you get a DNA profile for your best performance for that job role, and then, that's what you're matching, and it's highly accurate. So we had a company on the Las Vegas Strip use it, because they have to hire in volume a lot, and essentially what they wanted to do was get better blackjack dealers. You need somebody that's good at math, good under pressure, not too emotive, don't give away anything; and so we did that, fine tuned the test, they call us back nine months later and said "We need you to change the test." We said "We did exactly what you wanted, what happened?" He said well, the winnings went up 30%, but everybody's leaving the hotel in 24 hours 'cause they lost all their money, so we don't need them to be that good. (all laugh) >> Dial it down a little bit. >> Which we did. And so that's part of the service is we fine tune it, you tell us what your goals are, and we'll tune to that. >> That's a great story. The other surprise for me this week has been the emphasis on robotic process automation, it's a space that we've kina looked at. And a lot of people are scared about software robots replacing humans, but if you talk to people who are using RPA, they love it. It's taking away these mundane tasks, I didn't realize that you guys had such capabilities there? >> Yeah, so we built that as part of a Coleman RPA platform, and not only can we automate and use RPA for ourselves, but we've built a whole development environment for our customers to build their own, 'cause we can't think of every process that they might want to automate, and we gave that platform to our partners as well, so. We don't want them doing database schema work anymore, and they used to get paid for that, there's other things you can do up the stack in AI, here's what we want you to focus on. So we had that meeting on Monday with the partners, and they all agreed that's what we're going to do. But there's tons of mundane things that people shouldn't be spending time on, and they can be much more productive, it makes them more loyal to the company, they're enjoying their job more, and they're thinking and innovating more. So I don't see it as replacing people, as making people better. And giving that engagement that I talked about during the keynote, they're engaged now, because they can do things that are more value adding now. >> So, back to New Orleans next year? That's the first Inforum that theCUBE was ever at was in N'Orleans, and, jazz, you like jazz, obviously, right? >> I like jazz, I met with the mayor when I was down there, Mitch Landrieu at the time, and he became a customer after that meeting, so the city of New Orleans runs on Infor software, it's another reason to go there; so thank you. >> You've get--nice. >> Yeah, thank you Mitch, so that worked well. And so as a thank you we're going back down there, they're a big customer now, and it's always fun, you know what I mean, you know. >> That's great. >> Just, before you go, you mention, I watched in the keynote this morning, Brooks Koepka. >> Yes. So you're working with him. I do a little bit of work on the golf side as well, so I was just intrigued because, he's not the, well he's not Tiger, right? >> Yeah. >> U.S. Open Champion, twice over. What was the attraction to him, and then can you play in the golf world a little bit, and with those brands, and is that an entry into that world? >> Well, we always like to bet on the scrappy guy, the next up and coming generation guy, and that's kind of our brand that's what we are, the Brooklyn Nets, someone who's not quite there yet, but they're moving up, that's kind of our scrappiness, that's why we like the whole Brooklyn image as well. And we started talkin' to him, like I said, before he won the U.S. Open, because he was ranking pretty high, moving up, but wasn't well known. A quite guy, very personable when you meet him, we thought he'd be good in front of clients, let's bet on his career, and we're going to work with him; and literally three weeks later he wins the U.S. Open, we go "Okay." (all laugh) >> Good grab! >> We'll take it! (laughs) So, we didn't even think it'd happen that quickly, and now he's a rockstar so. We were planning on hosting a CX event with him, and, we're not sure how many people are going to come, but when that happened, now, everybody RSVP'd right away of course. So now it's doing exactly what we wanted. >> Do you play golf? >> I don't play golf, I just started playing, 'cause we were doing these golf tournaments with customers over the last year, but I haven't had enough time to get out there yet. >> I'll bet Brooks would give you a lesson or two. (laughs) >> Yeah, he, a lot of people want to lesson from him. >> Charles thank you >> Alright, thank you guys, >> for the time, great show. >> Good to see ya again. See ya in New Orleans. >> Thank you, yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Alright guys, see ya. >> Wonderful week here in Washington, D.C. Back with more live on theCUBE here from D.C. right after this. (bubbly music)