(click) >> Well welcome to the special Cube conversation. I'm John Furrier with The Cube. We're here at Sundance Film Festival, Sundance, 2018, special coverage. All the top stories are obviously in the Intel Tech Lounge. All week's been our home base. We've been out on the streets getting the best stories, but one of the most biggest, compelling tech stories is the VR revolution is here. And the impact artist, the new creative. My next guest here is Michael Smit, who is the Chief Commercial Officer of Ziva. Welcome, to The Cube conversation. >> Thanks John, thanks, it's a pleasure to be here. >> You guys have a very impressive company. You're here at the Intel Tech Lounge. You're displaying Ziva. I saw a demo over there. You guys are bringing, I mean, really studio grade quality of animation, and integrated into storytelling. And this is not new for you. But one of the themes of democratization. So, you guys are a key tell sign in my opinion of where the developer, the creative developer market's going. Talk about what you guys are doing. And some of the big things you've done. I know you had some big films. Share a little bit about Ziva, and then we can have a conversation. >> Sure, sure. You know, we like to say, I mean, truly we believe in characters. And at the heart of our technology is character simulation technology. So, here at Sundance, you know, and Intel, we've been working with Intel for a while. They gave us an opportunity to be here. You know, when you think about stories. Stories kind of are driven by characters. And great characters make great stories. So, in our world, great characters are characters that are simulated through physics, and anatomical simulation to achieve levels of plausibility and reality. That previously maybe was only accessible to the very top, you know, budgeted productions. Or the very top VFX studios of the world. >> And what have you worked on? Just share some of the films that you've worked on. And some of the tech. >> Yeah, I'll give a background of the, where I guess the previous kind of, legacy of the technology comes from. But it's actually my partners, who are here with me, have a story record. They actually co-authored the software. You know, 10 years ago or so, that drove characters in titles like, Avatar, and Apes, and the Hobbit. James and Simon, I think they're on a, floating around back there. They've also got a Sci-Tek at home for the engineering work. And the vision here is that, you know, they did that work, and they were really motivated and enthused to do amazing work, amazing results, provide amazing results. They want to enable that same, and provide that same kind of functionality to small studios, big studios, game studios, independents, anyone who wants to tell a great story. >> And there's a huge tsunami. We've been talking at The Cube for the folks watching. Know that, I've been on this narrative around a renaissance in software development. Now we're seeing a renaissance in creative development. And we call that the new creative. Because an organic trend is brewing pretty fast. And used to be, not just Indie filmmakers, we're talking about kids, adults, creatives who are doing filmmaking things, in like virtual reality. And some of the successes that we're seeing, like Baobab Studios is one. They're having the hits around the characters. So, there's a thirst and a demand for technology for characters, but it's hard to build. This is an opportunity for you guys. What's your view on, on that trend? Are you guys going to be a supplier? Can I just use your technology to get characters? And where does this fit into the evolution of say, VR? >> Sure, I mean I touch on that concept of the new creative, because those who want to build and create amazing characters, to tell rich stories, tell immersive experiences. They don't want be, you know, like anything else in our life these days, like anything else that Intel is powering in our life these days. Automation of the simpler tasks should be a given. You don't want creatives to get hung up on, you know, trying to make your cheek look exactly the way it needs to look over 500 frames. When you want them to be making, bringing the story to life. So, our software basically automates a lot of the nuance of organic characters and properties. And the things that make us realistic. And I think it empowers and enables those creatives to tell the stories. >> And how can they tap into Ziva? Because I believe that you guys are on the cusp of something really big. A big trend that no-one's really talking about. And we come at it from a tech angle. So, we can see historically what happened with open source software. I mean 10% of the notional property in most big breakthroughs is the unique IP. 90% of it is reused software. >> Yeah. >> So, you can almost see these dots connecting in this new creative world. You guys seem to be at the forefront of that. Is that part of how people can engage with you? Is that a role you guys see yourselves playing? And, you know, how does someone get a hold of your technology? Do they buy it? Do you license it? How does it work? >> Great question, I mean yeah, we focus on software to make characters. And that's what our customers license from us. We license to studios, we license to Indies. We license to academics. We license to people who want to try it out for free. So, if there's a plug opportunity the url for the website is zivadynamics.com you'll learn a lot more about the company, about some of the work-- >> How expensive is it? I mean, just give a, can you talk about the number? Is it expensive, is it affordable? How does someone who's experimenting, might have their art and their storytelling vision coming to life, and might not have a big budget. >> Yeah so, the Indie licenses basically work out to about 50 bucks a month, per user to leverage the software. Which when you think about previous, maybe less robust implementations of this kind of thinking. We're limited, and we're at the tail end of multi-million dollar investments by huge studios. So, we think that's a pretty good value equation. >> Where are you guys located? Talk about your company, and culture. And what drives you guys. >> Yeah, we're located in Vancouver. You know, we're in one of the epicenters of a lot of creative work, and a lot of filmmaking. In fact, I mean, within a short radius of our studio, the number of game, and visual effects studios, it's amazing. So, you know, but our team's international, in fact, one of our team members is kind of mostly based in Wellington. Another one is actually working in Norway these days. We've got somebody in Los Angeles. So, we're kind of all over the place. And our customer footprint, we've got users in every continent, but Antarctica. >> I wish you could have come on the panel. But we were kind of sold out, we've got a small footprint here at the Intel Tech Lounge in Sundance. And the real theme is, new creative. So, I've got to ask you, in your view what is the new creative mean to you? >> The new creative is somebody who's curious, and they're not scared. They're not concerned with necessarily what it is that they're going to be making, or the media format they're going to be making. They're curious about what story they're going to be telling. And they're going to pursue anything. And they're not going to be shackled by artificial constraints. They're not going to be shackled by budgets that stop them. That make them take creative ideas off the table. They're going to pursue what they can do themselves. They're going to leverage technology in unique ways. And we're going to see some pretty amazing stuff happening. >> Yeah, and it's always, give them more time to work on their art, not worry about the scaffolding in the software to do it. >> That's exactly it. >> What's your take on Sundance this year? Obviously the theme, obviously VR here in the studio. But AI has been the Intel theme as well. We see AI as a critical part of automation. The role of automation in software to assist and augment, and give more opportunities for developers. >> Yeah, yeah I think it, again, it's people that have developed expertise. And we shouldn't look at AI and automation as something to be concerned about. We need to look at it as a tool. And it's to say well, how do I do the last mile? How do I the last 10% of what I do really good, and have all the other stuff kind of taken care of for me. >> Michael what's the hallway conversation, as you know, there's no hallway here in Sundance, it's more of this sidewalk. When you're out at dinner, when you're done here at Intel. When you're out on the streets with your peers, and colleagues, and meeting new people. What's the conversation like this year at Sundance 2018? >> The conversation at Sundance, I mean, it's a conversation that to me, just goes beyond where Sundance has been before. In that, and I think we heard it in some of the panels. But some of the emerging technology used to be like, the additive thing, like now let's go see what's next. Now it's just a part of the big story. And certainly the filmmaking has legacy. Has more experience. Has a lot of amazing stuff. There's so many amazing filmmakers. And amazing content coming out of this place this year. But it's just the variety, the diversity of everything that's happening is just blowing me away. >> Michael Smit with zivadynamics.com check out the website. I think this is a trend that you guys are on. I think the sooner we get to ease of use of the creative developer. Whether it's a filmmaker, VR, and, or, content and digital. They need characters. I want my avatars (laughs) >> That's right. >> Thanks for spending the time, appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> I'm John Furrier here for The Cube conversation, Sundance Film Festival 2018. We are covering it on the streets. And also here, ground zero for us is the Intel Tech Lounge. It's been buzzing all week with immersive media, not just VR, really showing creative developers a new way to reimagine storytelling. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Hello and welcome to a special CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE on theCUBE. We're here in Sundance 2018 at the Intel Tech Lounge for a panel discussion with experts on the topic of The New Creative. We believe a new creative renaissance is coming in application development and also artistry. The role of craft and the role of technology and software coming together at the intersection. You're seeing results in the gaming industry. Virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed reality. A new wave is coming and it's really inspiring, but also there's a few thought leaders at the front end of this big wave setting the trends and they're here with us in this special panel for The New Creative. Here with us is Brooks Browne, Global Director of VR at Starbreeze Studios, a lot to share there, welcome to the panel. Lisa Watt, VR Marketing Strategist at Intel, Intel powering a lot of these VR games here. And Winslow Porter, co-founder and director of The New Reality Company. Many submissions at Sundance. Not this year, but a ton of experience talk about the role of Sundance and artistry. And then we have Gary Radburn who's a director of commercial VR and AR from media within Dell, Dell Technologies. Guys, welcome to this panel. Lisa, I want to start off with you at Intel. Obviously the Tech Lounge here, phenomenal location on Main Street in Sundance. Really drawing a massive crowd. Yesterday it was packed. This is a new generation here and you're seeing a younger demographic. You're seeing savvier consumers. They love tech, but interesting Sundance is turning into kind of an artistry tech show and the game is changing, your thoughts on this new creative. >> Yeah, it's been amazing to watch. I've been here for, this is my third year coming back with VR experiences. And it's really just been incredible to see. Sundance has been on the leading edge of exploring new technologies for a long time and I think this is, I feel like you know this feels like the break out year really. I mean, it's been successful the last few years, but something about this year feels a little bit different. And I think maybe it's the people are getting more familiar with the technology. I think the artists are getting more comfortable with how to push the boundaries. And then we certainly are getting a lot out of seeing what they're doing and how we can improve our products in the future. >> We were talking yesterday, Lisa, about the dynamic at Sundance. And you were mentioning that you see a few trends popping out. What is the most important story this year for the folks who couldn't make it, who might be watching this video that you see at Sundance? Obviously it's a great day today, it's snowing, it's a white day, it's beautiful powder, greatest snow on Earth. But there's some trends that are emerging. We had a march this morning, the Women's March. You're seeing interesting signals. What's your view? >> I think there's a lot less desire to put up with subpar experiences. I mean I think everyone is really starting to push the boundaries, I mean, we saw a lot of 360 video which we love for a linear narrative. But they're really breaking out and really exploring what does it mean to have autonomy especially in the virtual reality experiences, a lot more social is coming to the forefront. And then a lot more exploration of haptics and the new ways of extending into more 4D effects, etc. So I think it's very very exciting. We're really excited to see all the new innovations. >> Winslow, I want to ask you, if you can comment, you've been an active participant in the community with submissions here at Sundance. This year you're kind of chilling out, hanging out. You've been on the front lines, what is your take on the vibe? What's the sentiment out there? Because you're seeing the wave coming, we're feeling it. It feels early. I don't know how early it is, and the impact to people doing great creative work. What's that take? >> Well yeah, it's kind of like VR years are like dog years, you know. Like a lot can happen in a month in the VR space. So I had a piece here in 2014 called Clouds. It was an interactive documentary about Creative Code, but that was back when there was only two other VR pieces. It's interesting to see how the landscape has changed. Because CCP Games had a piece there. An early version of E Valkyrie. And unfortunately in the last three months, they had to close their VR wing. So, and then Chris Milk also had a Lincoln piece with Beck. Which was a multi camera 360, actually it was a flash video that they recorded to the DK1. And so that was, seeing that everyone was, saw the potential. The technology was still pretty rudimentary or crude even, we should say. Before any tracking cameras. But every year people learned from previous Sundances and other festivals. And we're seeing that Sundance kind of raises the bar every year. It's nice that it's in January because then there's all these other festivals that sort of follow through with either similar content, newer versions of content that's here, or people have just sort of learned from what is here. >> So I got to ask you. You know, obviously Sundance is known for pushing the boundaries. You see a lot of creative range. You see a lot of different stuff. And also you mentioned the VR. We've seen some failures, you've seen some successes, but that's growth. This market has to have some failures. Failures create opportunities to folks who are reiterating in that. What are some of the things that you can point to that are a positive? Things that have happened whether they're failures and/or successes, that folks can learn from? >> Well, I think that this year there's a lot more social VR. We're connecting people. Even though they're in the same space, they're able to be in this new virtual world together. There's something amazing about being able to interact with people in real life. But as soon as you have sort of a hyper reality where people are able to be experiencing a Sufi ritual together. Things that you wouldn't normally... That they're not possible in the real world. And also, I think that there's issues with lines too. Obviously every year, but the more that we can have larger experiences with multiple people, the more people we can get through. And then more impact we can make on the audience. It's really... We were in claim jumper last year. And we could only get one person in every 10 minutes. And that makes things pretty tricky. >> And what are you doing at Sundance this year? You've obviously got some stuff going on with some of the work you've done. What's your focus? >> So yeah we have a company called New Reality Company where we produce Giant and Tree. It's part of a trilogy where Breathe is going to be the third part. We're going to be completing that by the end of this year. And right now, I would say the best thing about Sundance is the projects, but also the people. Being able to come here, check in, meet new people, see partners that we've been working with in the past. Also new collaborations, everywhere you turn, there's amazing possibilities abound. >> I want to talk about empathy and social. I mentioned social's interesting in these trends. I want to go to Brooks Brown, who's got some really interesting work with Starbreeze and the Hero project. You know, being a pioneer, you've got to take a few arrows in your back, you've got to blow peoples' minds. You're doing some pretty amazing work. You're in the front lines as well. What's the experience that you're seeing? Talk about your project and its impact. >> Well for us, we set out with our partner's ink stories, Navid Khonsari, a wonderful creative, and his entire team to try to create that intensely personal experience kind of moving the opposite direction of these very much social things. The goal, ultimately being to try to put a person inside of an event rather than a game style situation where you have objective A, B, or C. Or a film that's a very, very hyper linear narrative. What is that sort of middle ground that VR itself has as unique medium? So we built out our entire piece. Deep 4D effects, everything is actually physically built out so you have that tactility as you walk around. Things react to you. We have smell, temperature, air movement, the audio provided by our partners at DTS is exceptional. And the goal is ultimately to see if we put you in a situation... I'm doing my best not to talk about what that situation is. It's pretty important to that. But to watch people react. And the core concept is would you be a hero? All over the world, every day people are going through horrific stuff. We're fortunate because we're the kind of people who, in order to experience, say a tragedy in Syria, we're fortunate that we have to go to Park City, Utah and go in virtual reality to experience something that is tragic, real, and deeply emotional. And so our goal is to put people through that and come out of it changed. Traumatized actually. So that way you have a little bit more empathy into the real world into the actual experiences they went through. >> And what's the goal? This is interesting because most of the some stuff you see, the sizzle out there is look at the beautiful vistas and the beaches and the peaks and you can almost be there. Now you're taking a different approach of putting people in situations that probe some emotional responses. >> Yeah. It's a big deal to us. The way Navid like to put it, and I'm going to steal this from him, is you see a great deal of people prototyping on hardware and all of these things, and it's great cause we need that. We need to be able to stand on the shoulders of those giants to be able to do these things. But you see very few people really prototyping what is the concept of story as per VR? We've been doing, at Starbreeze, we've been doing location based for some time now and I've been getting thousands upon thousands of pitches. And whenever you get a pitch, you can pretty much identify, oh you come from a film background, you come from a games background. There's very few people who come down that middle line and go, well this is what VR is supposed to be. This is that interesting thing that makes it very deeply unique. >> What's the confluence and what's the trend in your mind as this changes? Cause you mentioned that gamers have affinity towards VR. We were talking about that before we came on the panel. You know, pump someone in mainstream USA or around the world who does email, does work, may not be there, you're seeing this confluence. How is that culture shifting? How do you see that? Cause you're bringing a whole nother dimension. >> We're trying to go back to a little bit, something about this Sundance being a little bit different. I think in general in VR, you're seeing this sort of shift from a few years ago it was all potentiality. And I think a lot of us, the projects were great, but a lot of us who work in VR were like oh I see what they're trying to do. And people like my dad would be like I don't. I don't see what they're trying to do. But that is shifting. And you're seeing a larger shift into that actuality where we're not quite there yet where we can talk about the experiences every day Americans are going to have. What is the real ready player one that we're actually going to have existing. We're not there yet, but we're much closer every time. And we're starting to see a lot of these things that are pushing towards that. Final question before I go to some of the speeds and feeds questions I want to get with Intel and Dell on is what is the biggest impact that you're seeing with your project and VR in general that will have the most important consequences for societal impact? >> Well, we were fortunate yesterday we had a number of people come through Hero. And a number of them simply actually couldn't handle it. Had to come out. We had to pull people out. The moment we took the headset off, they were, tears were streaming down their face. There's a level of emotional impact VR is extremely able to cut through. It's not that you're playing a character. It's not that you're in a separate world. You are you inside of that space. And that is a dangerous but very promising ability of VR. >> Winslow, could you take a stab at that, I'd like to get your reaction to that because people are trying to figure out the societal impact in a positive way and potentially negative. >> Yeah I mean, so with that, whenever you traumatize somebody else or have the ability to possibly re-traumatize somebody... In Giant, we made sure that we gave them a trigger warning because yeah these things can be intensely intimate or personal for somebody who already has that sort of baggage with them or could be living in a similar experience. In Giant, we witnessed the last moments of a family. As they're convincing their daughter that the approaching bomb blast is a giant that actually wants to play with her. And so we put haptics in the chair so the audience was also surprised. But we let them know that it was going to be taking place in a conflict zone. So if that was something that they didn't want to participate in, that they could opt out. But again, like we didn't know... We had to go and buy tissues like right off the bat because people were crying in the headset. And that's kind of a... It's an interesting problem to have for the sake of what are sort of the rules around that? But also it makes it more difficult to get people through the experience in a timely fashion as well. But yeah, but we're seeing that as things become more real then there's also a chance to possibly impact people. It's the... >> So it's social for you? You see it as a social impact? >> Well, I mean if everyone's experiencing the same thing that can be social, but again if it's a one on one experience, it's sort of like up to the filmmaker to make sure that they have the scruples that they are playing by the rules. Cause there's right now most every piece of content is being released through Oculus, Steam, or Viveport. But there will be... It's heavily regulated right now, but as soon as there's other means of distributing the content, it could take a different sort of face. >> Certainly some exciting things to grab on, great stuff. I want to get to the commercial angle. Then we're going to talk more about the craft and the role of artistry in the creating side of it. Gary, you're the commercial VR expert at Dell. You're commercializing this. You're making the faster machines. We want faster everything. I mean everyone... Anyone who's in VR knows that all the graphics cards. They know the speeds and feeds. They're totally hardware nerds. What's going on? Where's the action? >> Okay, that's such a large question. I mean we've had some great stuff here that I also want to comment on as well. But inside the commercial side, then yeah everybody wants bigger, stronger, better, faster. And to Winslow's comment about the dog years, that really puts the pressure on us to continue that innovation and working with partners like Intel to get those faster processors in there. Get faster graphics cards in there so that we can get people more emotionally bought in. We can do better textures, we can get more immersion inside the content itself. We're working a lot around VR in terms of opening peoples' eyes for societal impact. So VR for good for instance. Where we're taking people to far flung corners of the Earth. We work with Nat Geo explorer Mike Libecki to show the plight of polar bears in Greenland and how they're gradually becoming extinct for an edutainment and a learning tool. The boundaries are really being pushed in entertainment and film. That's always been the case. Consumer has always really pushed that technology. Commercial's always been a bit of a lagger. They want stability in what's going on. But the creation that's going on here is absolutely fantastic. It's taken what is essentially a prosumer headset and then taking it into that commercial world and lit it up. 360 video, its very inception, people are using it for training inside of their businesses and so that's now going out into businesses now. We're starting to see advances in 360 video with more compute power needed. Where, to the point about immersion and getting people emotionally bought in. Then you can start doing volumetric, getting them in there. And then we're also working with people like Dr. Skip Rizzo who was on our panel yesterday where we're starting to go into, okay, we can treat PTSD. Help people with autism, through the medium of VR. So again, that buys into... >> These are disruptive use cases that are legit? >> Yeah. >> These are big time, market moving, helping people... >> Absolutely. And that where it becomes really, really powerful. Yes, we want our companies to embrace it. Companies are embracing it for training. But when you start seeing the healthcare implications and people crying inside of headsets. That's effecting you deeply, emotionally. If you can make that for good, and change somebody's trigger points inside of PTSD, and the autism side of helping somebody in interview techniques to be able to be more self sufficient, it's absolutely awesome. >> This is the new creative. So what's your take on the new creative? What's your definition? Cause you're talking about a big range of use cases beyond just film making and digital artistry. >> Yeah, absolutely so the new creative is like with all the great work that's here, people are looking at film and entertainment. Now the world really is the oyster for all the creatives out there. People are clamoring out for modelers, artists, story tellers, story experiencers to be able to use that inside their commercial environments to make their businesses more effective. But they're not going to have a 360 video production company inside of their commercial organization. And it's then leveraging all of the creative here and all of the great stuff here. Which is really going to help the whole world a lot. >> Lisa, I want to get your thoughts on this cause you guys at Intel here at the Tech Lounge have a variety of demos, but there's a range of pro and entry level tools that can get someone up and running quickly to pro. And so there's a creative range not only just for digital artistry, but also business we're hearing. So what's the... Cause AI's involved in a lot of this too though. It's not just AI, it's a lot of these things. What's the Intel take on this. >> Well I think it's really an interesting time for us at Intel because one of the things that we have that I think probably nobody else has. We have this amazing slate of products that really cover the end to end process. Both from the creation side of the house all the way to the consumption side. And we talk a lot about our processors. We worked on an amazing project, a couple of huge scenes inside of the Sansar environment. Which is a great tool for really democratizing the creation of spaces. It's a cloud hosted service but it utilizes this amazing client-server architecture. We created four huge spaces in a matter of eight weeks to launch at CES. And some of the technologies that Gary was referring to just in pure processing power like two generations old processors were taking three hours to render just a small portion of a model where our newest generation Core i9s with our opting technology took that time to 15 minutes. So when we think about what we can do now, and those technologies are going to be available in even portable laptop form factors. We've got the piece where we were working here SPHERES. They were able to actually make some corrections and some tweaks basically immediately without having to send them off to some render farm. They were able to do those things. And I know Winslow has talked about that as well. What does it mean to you to be able to react real time. And be able to do your creative craft where you are and then be able to share that so readily. And then you know... I just think that's kind of an amazing equalizer. It's really democratizing the creation process. >> Okay the next question that begs for everyone to address is where are we in this progression? Early? What work needs to get done? Where are we holding back? Is it speeds and feeds? Is it the software? Is it the routines, libraries, art? Where's the bottleneck? Why isn't it going faster? Or is it going faster? >> I would, and I'm sure the team would agree here, I would say that one of the key things is the creator tools themselves, right. They are still somewhat cumbersome. We were talking to another filmmaker. He was like I can't even, I have to play the whole piece from the beginning, I can't just go in and edit, you know change control, being able to collaborate on these pieces with other people. I mean, if you can collaborate in a real world space, you should be able to also collaborate in VR and have change control and all those sorts of things that are necessary to the iteration of a project. So we're trying to work with our software partners. They're all doing a really great job of trying to iterate that, but it's going to take some time. I mean I think that's probably the bigger thing that's holding everything back. We're going to be right there with the processing power and the other technologies that we bring to the table. OEM partners are going to be right there with the best devices. I really think it's something we've all got to push for as far as those tools getting better. >> Brooks, comment on anything? You're in the... >> So for me, the thing that's holding back VR in general is actually the art form itself. One of the great challenges, if you look back, at say the history of film... We're at Sundance, so it's probably fairly apropo. Very early on in the early movies, aside from penny arcade machines that you'd actually stare at, they were 10 minute almost like plays that people would go to almost a playhouse and they'd watch this thing. There were not cuts, there were no angles. It was a single wide shot. Great Train Robbery came around and there was this crazy thing they did called an edit. Where they spliced film together. And if you go back and you read, and they did these dolly shots. People will have no idea what they're watching. There's no way people will be able to follow that. Like people were not happy with it at the time. Now it's stuff that children do on their iMacs at home. They do iMacs all the time, they do it on their iPhones, on their Android devices. These are normal languages of film that we have. VR doesn't have that yet. And there's not a great deal of effort being made in that direction. There's people here doing that. So I'm kind of speaking in the middle of the group, but outside of these people, there's only a handful who are really doing that and it's a significant challenge. When people who are the mainstream consumer put on a VR headset, it needs to be more than just a magic trick where they go oh that's cool. And that tends to be the vast majority of experiences. So what is the thing that is going to make someone go oh I get why we have VR as a medium. And we're not there yet. We're in the direction, but that's >> So you mentioned earlier the point where you can tell if someone's from film or gaming or whatever when you talk to them about VR. Who is the future VR developer? Is it a filmmaker? Is it a gamer? Is it a digital artist? What is this evolving? >> It's a kid in his basement who no one knows and is screwing around with it and is going to do something that everyone thinks is stupid. Like, it's going to be that. Basically every major leap in gaming is kind of the same thing. It's when we understand how ludonarrative dissonance works inside of telling how people move around a space. It's about how we do Dutch angle suddenly in film. And these things get invented. It's going to be some kid who's just screwing around who doesn't have the baggage of the language of film. A lot of the people I know in VR have been fortunate to work in film, in games and interactive or web dev. So you come from a lot of places but someone's going to come along who has none of that baggage. And they're going to be... >> Well you guys are pioneers and you're doing it. So for the first person out there that's in their basement, that inspirational soundbite or comment. How can you guys talk to that person or that group? Because this is the democratization, this is what's happening. It's not the gatekeepers. It's real creatives out there that could come from anywhere. YouTube generation, Twitch generation, gaming. What would you say to that person to motivate them and to give them that passion? >> Well it's only going to get easier, faster, cheaper, all these things are happening. But again, yeah I totally agree with what Brooks said. It's really about the culture and about educating the audience and getting them up to speed. There are some VR experiences that as soon as they put on the headset, like somebody who's never done it before, immediately will take it off cause they'll get nauseated. And then there's people, like kids who are like jet fighters. They've seen everything. You could throw like a 30 frames per second experience at them and that doesn't even phase them. They can be, all of a sudden their worlds are changing and they're like bring it because they're ready for that. So I think it's sort of about raising the bar for what the audience is comfortable with, familiar with, educating the community. There's a lot of tools right now, you know with Unreal and Unity that allow people who have very little... They don't need to know C# or C++, they can get started in a lot of like visual. What you see is what you get. Being able to drag things into a virtual room. And the windows headsets that are out. They refer to them as mixed reality, but just even having the ability to flip up the screen and transition from the virtual world to the real world in milliseconds, it allows you to be able to create things more at the speed of thought instead of coming up with an idea, coding it, and making sure it works, and then eventually putting on the headset. The sooner that we can actually be ideating inside this virtual environment is when things will get really interesting. >> So the next question is to take to the next level is what's the playbook? How does someone get involved? How does someone ingratiate into a community? If I'm an artist, I want to get, and I'm proficient with technology, or maybe not, how do they get involved? Is it community driven? Is it social? You guys mentioned seeing social's a big trend here. How do people get involved? What's the track? >> Well yeah you don't just need to go to a grad school or... There's a lot of programs out there that are popping up. Almost every single major state school has like an interactive art program now. And that wasn't the case like two or three years ago. So we're seeing that that's a big shift in the culture. But again, VR is still... It's expensive and it's you know, like VR, I refer to it's in the stage of it's almost like in the neo geo phase, maybe a little before that. But it's the really expensive thing that your friend's neighbor has. Or his older brother or something. You get to play it a little bit, you're like that's great but there's no way in hell I'm going to... You know, I can't afford that or like that just doesn't really work with my lifestyle right now so it needs to incorporate itself into our everyday, our habits. And it needs to be something that... If we're all doing it then it makes sense for us to do it together not just somebody in their basement doing it by themselves. >> Yeah feel free to comment, this is a good topic. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. So what we're doing is sort of about democratization and accessibility. So for people to get into the then they're going to need a rig, they're going to need a headset and previously it's actually been quite expensive to actually take that first plunge into it. So now by democratizing and bringing price points down, it makes it more accessible. That helps content creators because there's now more of an audience that can now consume that content. And the people that can then play with the medium and consume it now have a better reason to do it. So we're working on that. We're also working on the education pieces like Key. It's actually going out there to schools and actually letting them experience VR and play with VR. Because it is a whole new different medium. We've seen film directors and filmmakers go into the VR space and things that worked in 2D film like fast pans and whatever else so the points have already been made don't really translate into VR without somebody losing their lunch. So it is going to be somebody who's coming up who hasn't got the baggage of previous skill sets inside of 2D doing it inside of VR. So we're going to see that. And in terms of the technology, everybody's wanting things to progress. That shows the level of excitement out there. And everybody wants to get into it. Everybody wants to see it go further. And I'm reminded of the mobile phone. Mobile phone, 30 years ago? Two suitcases for batteries, a large brick on the ear and a car antennae. Okay, so where we are now, if you had a time machine and you went back in time to talk to the inventor of the mobile phone, well, I'd be a lot richer because I know sports results and all, but that aside, but you go back and talk to them and you said do you know in 30 years time, everybody is going to be carrying that device? Everybody's going to be dependent on that device? They're going to get social anxiety and separation anxiety if they lose it. And they will probably laugh in your face. >> Alright so since you brought up the phone analogy, since I love that example, are we in the Blackberry moment of VR and no one yet has built the iPhone? Because the iPhone was the seminal moment for smartphones. And you see what happened there. Is VR needing that kind of break? Or is it there? >> I think we're on the cusp. Where we are at the moment with technology, we've had the headsets, which I say have been more in the consumer space, they've been designed to hit a certain price point. We had CES the other week where we've had advancements now in the resolutions of headset that are now coming out. One of the issues was well I can't see texts, I can't read texts. So from a working environment, if you're actually using tools that you would normally use on a 2D screen, you can now translate that and read that text. However, in terms of the tools that people use, why are we trying to put 2D screens into a VR headset? We've got a whole new way of interacting with data. We've got a whole new way of doing things that are going to be more intuitive than the mouse and keyboard interaction that we're used to. Why just translate that. Let's push that envelope and those are the developments that we're pushing our partners and our ISVs to really embrace. >> So it's an evoution. >> It's absolutely an evolution. >> You guys have any thoughts on that comment. That we have that inflection point, are we hitting that, will we see it soon, is it here? >> Well I think it's a very interesting symbiotic relationship between multiple factors. So you know, we hear the cost factor, we hear the technology factor, then we have the content factor. You know I saw an interesting evolution at CES we had created this virtual booth experience so that you could still come to the CES Intel booth without actually having to be there. And I met a guy in there and I was like hey where are you? He goes I've been in here like all week. (laughter) And I was like oh yeah, where do you live? He goes oh I'm in my basement in Nebraska. But he had just, this was Friday when I met him. He'd been in there all week, but in 2D mode. And he had gone out the night before and bought a headset just so he could come back and go in VR mode. And I think, yes, all these factors have to kind of line up, but I do think that content, those experiences that are going to keep people coming back for more. Like these guys literally kept coming back to our booth. Right, to see... >> Content gain. >> To see who was there. And to them at that point, it wasn't really a barrier of cost. It was like there is something that I want to consume therefore I am going to go get what I need to consume it. And I use the analogy of HDTV, right. When we kind of moved over that hump where there was enough content people didn't really care how much that television cost. >> Sports was great. Sports really highlighted HD. >> Yeah. >> But this is a good point. This is a good question to ask. Brooks, I'd love to get your thoughts. Content drives experiences, amazing experiences, but we're building the scaffolding of everything at the same time. So where are we, what's your opinion? >> So here on the Starbreeze side, we're fortunate because we have our own headset. We have the StarVR headset we've been building with Acer. 5K all of that stuff and we're upgrading it over the next year. Our focus has been, we skipped the consumer market very much. We went straight to location based and enterprise. And the reason we did that is because there's a promise of VR at a basic, I don't want to say technology stand point, but from an experience perspective, when it comes to that resolution, when it comes to that field of view, when it comes to these things people expect. Average consumers who go to a movie and they see these giant screens. They want that translated. They don't have the understanding like we do of well, LED panels are actually a pain in the ass to build and it takes a little bit and they flip at their own speeds. Time to photon is not a thing my dad will ever see in his life. But there's a reality that people have a need for that. And it is extremely expensive. It's again the reason we went straight to LBE. But for us it's about marrying the two and consistently trying to match what's happening. So when we're talking about, as I mentioned earlier the technology and how we're standing on the shoulders of giants very very quickly, someone who's doing technology is going to see what we're doing content wise and go well I can do that better technology wise. And then we're just going to keep leap frogging. And it's very similar to the phone in the same way that we're not at the final stage of the phone. Like we're at our stage of the phone and no doubt in 30 years people will laugh at us for carrying anything. The same way we laugh about the briefcases and the giant batteries in the cars we had to pull with us. So it's one of those things that's continually transitional. And VR's in an odd, amazing place. >> Well you know, it was a lot of waves that we've all seen. You mentioned the mobile phone, that's a good one to point to. It feels like the PC revolution to me because the same culture of entrepreneurs and pioneers come from a bunch of different backgrounds. So I'd like to get Brooks perspective and Winslow's perspective on this because I think there's an entrepreneurial culture out there right now that's just emerging very fast. It's not like your classic entrepreneur software developer. So in this movement, in this wave, the entrepreneur is the filmmaker, it could be the kid in the basement, could be the gamer. Those entrepreneurs are trying to find a path. >> Yeah, it's a weird mix. VR is at this odd point where not only is it the people who are wanting to be cutting edge in terms of content or technology, but also that first mover strategy from the business side of things. And so everyone wants to be those guys who are charging ahead because in reality, if you look at the financials around all of this, VR is one of those things that you don't want to finance. It's not nearly as safe as say Marvel Avengers or the next Call of Duty. >> You've got to be, you've got to hustle. >> Yeah you've got to hustle. You've got to make... >> What's your advice? >> Start doing it. That's really it. It's the same advice I used to give to game makers when people would be like well I want to learn how to make games. It's like go to YouTube, download a thing and go do it. There's literally no reason why you can't. >> Are there meetups or like the Homebrew Computer Club that spawned the Mac. >> There are, there are infinite groups of VR people who are more than happy to give you all the terrible and wonderful opinions that come with that. There's no shortage of people. There's no shortage and it's an amazingly helpful group. Because everyone wants someone else to figure out something so they can steal that and then figure out something else. >> Winslow, your advice to entrepreneurs out there that are young and/or 14 to 50, what should they do? Jump right in obviously is a good one. >> Well yeah, experiment, break things, that's really the only way to learn. I would say watch as much VR as you can because sometimes bad VR is the best VR. Because you can learn don't do that. And if you learn, if you put all that together, you can really... It's like this lexicon that you can really follow. Also, I think we... As people in tech, we kind of get obsessed with things like resolution, frame rate, and these are very important, but it's also good to remember, or at least for me, I watch some of the best experiences from storytelling when I was a kid, eight years old on a 12 inch screen that was 640 by 480. You know, like scan lines on the VHS. But for me the story still resonated and it's important to think of story first, but obviously it's a dance between the story and the technology. They kind of have to both organically work together. And if they don't, one thing in the story that doesn't work because the tech isn't supporting it, can throw you out of the experience. >> Other concern entrepreneurs might have is financing. How do I get someone to help me build it? And then doing relationships. Finding relationships that could... One plus one equals more than two, right. So how do you? >> You have to get really creative when it comes to funding right now. Unless you're doing location based, which also requires a certain amount of investment to get it up to a bar where you want to be showing it to people with all the haptic effects when it's heat, smell, vibration, stuff like that. You know, it's not cheap to develop. But as far as like working with film foundations, we're fortunate enough to be sponsored by Fledgling Fund and Chicken and Egg. But we also were able to get partnerships with people like Intel and NVidia. And also work with people who come from a traditional film background. There's not one way to successfully fund a project. There's a million. And that's why it's interesting that the technology's innovating, but also the market place is as well. >> One of the things I want to ask is as any new industry gets building, is cultures form early. DNA forms in the entrepreneurs, in the pioneers. And one of the big hottest topics in the creative world is inclusion and diversity. So what's the makeup of the culture of this new generation? Because democratization means everyone can participate, everyone's involved. What's the state of the community vis a vis diversity, inclusion, and the role of the actors in the community. >> Well I think it's important to understand that VR has a profound ability to place you in somebody else's shoes. The trick though is to make sure that those feel like they're your shoes. But I think that we're learning a lot more about story telling techniques and we're able to empower people that their voices you know were previously not heard. The tricky thing is being able to yeah, educate all different groups of people how to use the technology, but once they're enabled and empowered to do it, it's amazing what you can experience inside the headset. >> So VR can be an enabler for education, outreach, a variety of things? >> Yes, I mean the term empathy, empathy machine gets thrown around a lot. You could do a drinking game around it. For panels when people are talking about it. But it's important to know there is a truth to that. And it's, yeah the perspective shift from looking at a screen, a 16 by 9 screen where you can look away, then dissolving the screen and becoming that person. Becoming the director, the actor, the camera person, the editor. When you're in the first person perspective, there's so much more... It feels more personal and that's a really interesting angle that we're going to continue to explore. >> So you could walk in someone's shoes, literally? >> Yes, you literally can. You just have to make sure that you got a... The tracking system's proper or else you'll look like there's... It can be come a horror movie pretty quickly if your leg is behind your head. >> Lisa, your thoughts on this, I know it's important to you. >> Yeah, I mean I think it's fascinating because I've been in tech for a really long time. And seen many, many trends. I mean the first job I had at Intel I was a PC tech and as you can imagine as a female, I think there was one other tech female in the department at the time and I would get funny looks when I would show up with my bag. They were like hi can I help you? I'm like I'm not here to deliver coffee, I'm here to fix your computer, you know. So I've seen a lot of trends and it's super exciting to me to see so much diversity cross culture, cross country, I mean we're having... We had guys come in from all over the world. From even war torn, they've escaped their country just several years ago and they're coming and they're bringing all that creativity to the market. We're seeing very, very strong female contingent from the filmmaker perspective so it's this wonderful, wonderful just primordial soup of people that I think are growing their own voice and their own power. They're breaking molds as far as how you actually get content produced. Distribution is kind of crazy right now. I mean, how do you get it distributed? There's like so many different ways. But all of those things are so important to the evolutionary and biological process of this. Yes, we need to let it go and sometimes we're frustrated. We're like where's the standards? Where's the one ring to rule them all? Where there's not going to be one. And it's good for us that there's not right now. It's frustrating from a business perspective sometimes. You're like, I can't peanut butter myself around all of these places, but I think it's just a very unique time where so many people are... The technology is accessible, that means that so many creators can now bring their fresh voice to this space and it's just going to be fascinating to continue to watch. >> That's awesome. Well two more questions and I'll give you some time to think about the last one which is your perspective on Sundance, what's happening this year, your personal view of what you think's happening, what might happen during this year. But the question I have for you now is to go down the line. We'll start with Brooks here, and talk about the coolest thing that you're involved in right now. >> It actually has to be Hero. We're debuting it here at Sundance. We've been working on it and not talking about it for about nine months. And it's been very difficult. Again it's sacrosanct to the experience that you don't know literally what you're getting in to. And the emotional response has been essentially our goal, trying to find out how far can we take that. You actually being in a space, moving around, having that interactivity, doing what you would do. But it being your story and how deeply we can absolutely effect a human being. And again, watching people come out, it's one of those things, I've been doing game development, I've worked on films, I've done all kinds of stuff. And you usually get a chance when someone experiences something you've made, you walk up to them and you go so what'd you think? And that's not at all what we can do with ours. >> How has it impacted you, that reaction? >> Well, I personally suffer significant PTSD and I've had some traumas in my life. And so it's been incredibly powerful to be able to share these things with people. Share this emotion in a deeply profound, yet amazingly personal way. Which I'm amazingly fortunate to be able to be a part of it. >> Alright thanks for sharing. Coolest thing that's going on with you right now here at Sundance. >> Just the fact that I'm here at all. I mean, it's incredible right? Personally was able to be an advisor on the SPHERES project that is premiering here with Eliza McNitt. She's someone who was an Intel Science Fair winner back in high school and kind of came back to us. So just to see the evolution of an artist really from the beginning to the point where they've been able to come here to Sundance. I'm also very passionate about the work that we're doing with Sansar. I kind of consider myself one of the chief storytellers at Intel around Virtual reality and this new move into social where people are like well what's this game. I'm like, it's not a game. It's you are the game, you are the interactivity. You become the person that makes the space interesting. We're just really setting the scene for you. And there's so many... You know there's a lot of different people kind of chasing this be togetherness. But what we've been able to produce there. And just to be able to explore some of my own personal ideas has just been such a gift. Then to be working with guys like these on the panels and see what they're doing and just be in touch is really just an exciting time. >> John: Awesome. >> Probably what, other than the people on the projects, or the projects that are being shown here, we're working on our new project, which we would have loved to premiere here, but we did... Basically when you get in, you have two months to create a piece, so you have a demo and you have to finish it, so we're taking a little bit more time. This one's going to be about a year development cycle. It's called Breathe where we take you from where Giant left off, where, in Giant, the ceiling collapses on a family. They're in front of you. In this experience, we use a breathing apparatus to basically bring yourself back to life. And then you realize you're trapped under rubble and you remove the... We actually want to have physical objects on top of you that are going to be tracked. So you're moving rubble from you and you realize that you're a six year old girl. You're the survivor from Giant. And you get to witness what it's like to be a future refugee sort of in different key moments of her life that use breath. Whether it's a flirtatious moment, blowing a dandelion, seeing your own breath in snow as a drone shows you a message that your parents pre-recorded on your 18th birthday. This is all in the future, obviously, but every time you walk around an object, you actually grow 10 to 15 years older in the experience. As you get older, the world becomes smaller. And then we witness what's like for her last breath. From being six years old to being 90 years old. But it's a profound personal experience. >> John: That sounds cool, cool. Gary, coolest thing that you're involved in right now at Sundance. >> Wow. I could say it's all cool that would be a bit trite. They say if you enjoy what you do, is it really a job? And I'm lucky enough to be in that position. Because working with all these guys here and like people around the place, they're doing such great things that every day I wake up and I'm astounded of where the industry's going. In terms of what we're doing here at Sundance, then we're really starting to push those envelopes as well. I've been lucky enough to be involved with Dunkirk and Spider-Man: Homecoming. Like last year, so some great pieces there. And moving out into this year, we've got some other developments which I can't mention at this point, but we're showing things like AR and VR mashup. So we haven't talked much about augmented reality here. It's an evolutionary, it's not a replacement. Both can be used and we've started to really start to blend those two technologies now. So you can still see the outside world. Just touching on the commercial side, and health care's very big for me. That's where I think the really cool stuff is happening. Entertainment is great and that's really pushing the envelope and allowing us to then take it for the good of human kind. >> It happens everywhere, it's not just entertainment. >> Yeah absolutely. You start looking at MRI scans inside of VR or AR. Talking a patient through it so they can actually see exactly what you're talking about. You're now no longer pointing at flat things on a screen. You're now actually taking them through it. If you're using AR, you can actually judge the responses of the patient as for how they're reacting to the news. And effectively, inside of the VR, and what's really cool for me is seeing people's reaction to that content and to the entertainment content. >> That's awesome. Okay final question. This is a little bit of self serving because I'd like you to help me do my job at SiliconANGLE. If you were a reporter and you were going to report the most important stories happening this year at Sundance or really kind of what's really happening versus what's kind of being billed to be happening here. What's the story? What is the story this year at Sundance 2018 in your personal perspective? We'll go down the line and share your observations. >> Well, mine here, I'm a Sundance newbie. This is my first year of being here. I'm absolutely astounded by the community spirit that's around. I go to a lot of technical trade shows and technical presentations. People coming here with a willingness to learn. Wanting to learn from other people. It's been touched on already. It's the pool of knowledge that's available inside of Sundance that everybody that comes here can actually tap into to create better content, to learn not what to do as well as learn what to do. And I just think that's brilliant because in that community spirit, that's really going to help enable this industry quickly. >> John: Winslow, you've got some experience, what's your thoughts? >> Obviously, this Intel house, just a little plug for you Lisa. (laughter) Tech Lounge. We got that? Okay good. I mean, yeah, the people that's here. Every year we come here and see where the high water mark is. All these people are... Some of these teams first started with two people and then they grew to six and then by the end of it, there's 100 people working around the clock, pulling all-nighters to be able to give the latest and greatest of what's available with these current tools. So it's amazing because the work itself doesn't really mean anything until people get to experience it. So that's nice that they make a big splash. The people here are very attentive to it. It's a very nice audience and this will continue the momentum for future festivals throughout the year, but also will excite people that have never done VR before. People who have never been to Sundance before. We're seeing that there's a lot of new people. And that will continue to influence many years to come. >> John: So you think VR is the top story here being told? >> As far as like just to generalize, I would say last year kind of the big VR year. This is kind of the big AR year. Next year's going to be the AI year. Then after that we're going to start putting them all together. >> John: Great, great feedback. >> I think it's just exciting for Intel just to be back here. I think Intel hasn't been here in quite some time. Dell coming in here probably one of the breakout years for us to come back and really talk to creators what we're doing from the Intel Studios all the way through to the stuff you can take home and do at home. And I think coming in, we're coming back here with a purpose really, not just to be here to be seen. We're really here with real things and want to have real conversations on how tech can enable what people are doing. Not just from a brand perspective, but from a real hands on point of view. >> John: Yeah, some great demos too, phenomenal tech. >> Really just, yeah everything from the AI stuff we have to the social to the great new pieces that have been submitted here like we mentioned with SPHERES. So I think, yeah, it doesn't feel gratuitous to me you know that Dell or Intel is here this year. We've really come with a purpose. >> You guys are moving the needle, it's really awesome. We need more horsepower. >> Brooks, your thoughts on Sundance this year. Observation, the vibe, what would you tell your friend back home when you get back? >> If, for me, I think it's almost the non-story. It's like the opposite of a story. It's just the deep integration of VR into the normal Sundance flow I think has been interesting. Some people have been here for a few years. And back in the day when it was one or two, it was a lot of oh, you do VR? What's that then? Whereas now, you see a lot more people who are crossing over. Going to see documentaries, then they come to see a VR piece and it's just a part of the normal flow. And the team at New Frontier has done exceptional work to kind of make sure that they have this ridiculous high level of broad content for all kinds of people. All kinds of experiences, all high end things. But it's not that VR's here. Oh good, we have a VR section. It's a lot more of an integrated set up. And it's been really encouraging to see. >> Well you guys have been great. It's been very inspirational. Great information. You guys are reimagining the future and building it at the same time so entrepreneurially and also with content and technology. So thanks so much for sharing on this panel The New Creative. This is SiliconANGLE's coverage of Sundance 2018 here at the Intel Tech Lounge at the Sundance Film Festival. I'm John Furrier thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(click) >> Welcome this special Cube conversation in the Intel Tech Lounge at the Sundance Film Festival. I'm John Furrier with The Cube. We are here with Ari Kuschnir, who is the founder and managing partner of Missing Pieces. Doing some really amazing work on the future of filmmaking. He's got a great entrepreneurial spirit. And creative desire to deliver great product. Welcome! >> Thank you, thank you. >> So, tell them about Missing Pieces and what's going on in your world. So, there's context. Take a minute to explain what you are working on. >> Well, the premise is to be at this intersection of storytelling technology. And to make stuff people actually want to watch. And VR and AR are parts of it. But not the whole. So, I know some of the conversation focus is on, is on VR, and we're just as excited about where storytelling is headed. In terms of what technology allows us to do. But the key for me is. I'm just passionate about, a new thing comes out. And I want to figure out how to make something really great. But meaningful, and powerful with that. >> We were talking before you came out about filmmaking, obviously trained in the discipline, obviously a variety of other things. But I want to get your perspective, we're on top of this new generation, what does that mean to you? When you hear that new generation, a new creative is coming? What does that mean to you? >> Yeah, I feel like I've ridden the wave of the thing as it's happened. And I mean, the company has too. So, I went to film school in the late 90s. And it was the first time you could buy like, first Final Cut, and the first wave of that. So you could make art little movies on the weekend, you no longer needed even to go to the school itself to borrow the equipment. That was revolutionary in 1999. And then 2005, when we started thinking about the company. You know, your Vimeo, YouTube, video i-Pod all come out within five months of each other. Towards the later part of the year. And it's a revolution. It's clear that with distribution, now not only can we make it and edit it in our laptops. But we can put it out, and millions of people could watch it. And that was the first time that was possible. And it was revolutionary. And I think it still is, to some degree. So, we've just, you know, as it evolves what I see is that, it's not, I've always felt like it's not enough to make the sausage as they say. You know, the directors, the talent that I sign now. Like the project we have now here at Sundance, young Jake. Jake is a great example of a creative who you can't fit in a box. He's an Internet artist, he's a rapper. He's an interactive video maker. He did an app called Emoji.Ink. And he does celebrity emoji portraits. He has a hundred thousand followers on Instagram. So, he can command his own audience. So, when a brand, or an agency comes to him. It's a very different approach than when they come for a very straight up work for hire, director's commercial kind of thing. That is the future, I mean. The future is about having a passionate audience, making things for that audience, understanding it. And being able to communicate with them on a daily basis, or a weekly basis in a powerful way, right? Through story. >> Yeah, I mean, you're riding the wave. And the waves are getting bigger. One of the things we do, we do a lot of tech coverage. And we see this in Cloud computing where software changed from Waterfall to Agile. And now the craft's coming back on the software side. But still now, software is eating the creative world. Because now a new wave is coming. So, speak to that, because you're, this is, you can almost look at the old ways. You mentioned the commercials and films. Almost like the Waterfall. You know, crafts, craft it up and you ship it. And you hope it works well. >> Ari: Yeah. >> But now, you have this new model of iteration. Where it's more Agile creative. How do you do Agile, like your artist, and not lose the craft? >> Yeah, well it's a challenge. Look, I've had so many opportunities in our 10 plus year career to kind of go in that direction of just like quantity over quality. And we could just never do it. I mean we're just not cut out for it. But at the same time, I'm not, I never ignore, how to optimize the content based on data, and based on what the landscape is looking like. So, an important thing for example that we consider in every project is context. Like what, how is this project going to be released? Oh, it turns out that, it's really a big social media push. It's not a TV thing. Or it turns out specifically it's Facebook versus Instagram. And that's a very different type of edit. And a very different type of way you start the video. 'Cause you've got a certain, even a different format, and a different way of looking at the content. So, you start to get into, and then you start to iterate, and look at the different ways in which you can repurpose, and rerelease the content, but customize it for each thing. So, you get into this really interesting place where the data is driving the story. And the feedback is driving the story. >> And the audience is part of the journey. >> Yes. And the comments, and the way in which people are taking the thing that you've made and re-interpreting it, is really interesting. And part of the story. >> You trigger a lot of emotion with me, when we're talking, because, you know, as an entrepreneur, I started media businesses turning into, and no-one has even seen this kind of media business before. But I have no media training of any kind. I did a science major. So, there's certain, and I've observed that there's dogma in the journalism business. And there's, but you know, how dare I challenge that, or others. You're doing the same thing. >> I love that by the way. >> So, I want to ask you. What is the dogma with the old world, 'cause the naysayers are usually the ones with the dogma. "Oh, it will never work!" >> Ari: Yeah. >> So, you're on the front end of this new trend. But you're going to have a visibility into what they're thinking, what is that? >> The dogma is, you know, the whole like, there's only big name directors, and you know, it's a certain caliber of work. And that craft is the ultimate thing. And that you just have to make the thing great. And it'll do the thing that is needs to do. Without any thinking in terms of context, or media buyer. How it can actually become a social, socially engaged piece. So, the thing that we're always fighting is some version of that. And then because we came from a scrappy place, but we're now, you know, a pretty legit thing, I think people, some people will still be like, well that's the kind of like, the problem solving sometimes gets interpreted as scrappy. Which is a word I really don't like. And I think-- >> It's a compliment on one hand. >> Yeah. >> But some people look at it as an insult. "Oh, he's just scrappy!" >> Well-- >> "He's not legit!" >> You never want to be the cheap solution. You want to be the solution that people call because nobody else can solve this problem for you. I think we, there's a strand of the company that's like, the kind of like, pick up the phone and we'll figure it out. And, the impossible project that nobody else can do. And then there's another strand where it's just like, you just want to make stuff people actually want to watch. How hard it that? The thing where you could just buy the media, and expect the results is trickier and trickier. >> I mean you could be different, and innovative, but that might not be good. But if you're good doing it, you're differentiated and you're innovating. >> Ari: That's right. >> What's the filmmaking track on that line. Because certainly there's a lot of innovation. And with innovation comes failure. But people are trying to be different. And being different actually is a good thing. What are some of the trends that you're seeing where people are having some success. And where people are stumbling. >> Yeah, that's a good. I mean what I see is, the things that do well take cultural context into account, and again speak to the people in that way. So, it's like a feedback loop that it's creating with its own audience. And we almost always, there's almost always a time in the process when we're dealing with an agency, or a brand where things start to go a little bit like, too, too much, and in that direction that you don't want it to take. Somebody, usually me, or someone will say, "Look, if we make these changes. "Or if we go in this direction. "We won't want to share it. "And if we don't want to share it, "nobody's going to want to share it." So, that becomes a key thing. Whereas before you could sort of away with some of that, now it's like, well, it has to pass this sort of, kind of litmus test in terms of like, are you comfortable with sharing this thing, because it speaks to you or not. >> So, I want to ask you the hard question, we're here at the Intel Tech Lounge, obviously Intel is doing a lot of tech things. They're trying to get all this new tech. And I see it on, whether you watch the NFL playoffs, with, you know, with the camera angles, the games, on basketball games. You see them using the power of technology-- >> We're actually working on an Intel Olympics VR related project that got a little tease ad, CES. So, I can just say that. >> Yeah I know, so what's the tech? What's the cool new game changer in your mind. As a tool that you need to be more successful, and other artists could use? >> Hmmm, well, you tend to, yeah I mean, I think we-- >> John: More horsepower, more compute, more-- >> No, I mean it's really the, What happened with the AR was really interesting, which was, everyone realized, oh, the phone's already in our pocket. While the headset needs to be something that really needs to be standalone. It needs to be $200. You know, like, you sort of, there's different kinds of headsets, of course. They do different kinds of things. But that's an extra hardware. The phone we already have in our pockets. So, everyone's started taking AR seriously. Including the big players. And what that allowed was a, a rethinking of what the possibilities with story would be. So, in some ways this last year has been a readjustment, and a rethinking of, well, what can you do with the phone that you've already got in your pocket. In terms of expanding the storytelling. Or placing a story in the middle of your living room, you know. A layer, using the phone as a window and a layer. But I'm equally as excited about what's coming in VR, interactive VR, room-scale VR, you know. The project that we have here is an interactive 360 project with a phone. >> What's that called? >> It's called On My Way. And the artist is young Jake. And the original conceit of it, is, it's Jake, there's four Jakes in a car. And every time you move the phone to a different Jake, it changes the Jake. So, as soon as it passes the quadrants. So, the four quadrant it kind of swaps the Jake. And that creates a really fun, and interesting thing. And he actually designed it for the phone, vertical. Because that's the way most people are going to experience it. >> John: That's awesome. >> But it's playing on a headset as well. >> Oh you're definitely a new creative. Love chatting with you. >> Thank you. >> Final, well, I have two questions, first one is, Sundance, what's the story this year? What's your report? If you had to go back and your friend asked you to give him a report, "Hey, what happened Ari, "what's going on at Sundance this year?" >> A combination of really interesting high-end VR projects. Some of them leaning into this kind of like more psychedelic less narrative driven stuff. Which I really like. Kind of like really embracing the fact that it's another world, and taking you there. And then the AR stuff. There's a thing called Tender, Ten Day R. Or Tendar. Which is a play on Tinder, by Tinder Claus. Which is, uses augmented reality, and emotion, and machine learning, everything that you could hope for in a really interesting way. So, that's kind of showing you where it's going. So, I think those two things. >> Psychedelic's interesting. I always, I mean this kind of tangent. But in, I've been seeing on The Cube interviews, I think we're going to have a digital hippy revolution. >> Ari: Definitely! >> And it's coming. I mean you can feel it. It's a different culture. >> When I was looking a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people are scared to, I mean, VR is a really great consciousness expanding way to go to get into other worlds. Without, you know-- >> And will all the crap going on in the world today you can almost look at this as a Sixties like movement in this modern era. Where it could be a major catalyst for massive change. >> Yeah, and there's a piece about, you know, this female shaman that grows through the tribe in Ecuador. And became the first ever female shaman for her tribe. And there's a piece called Chorus that, within it. Which is just super weird and trippy. And almost has no plot, but is amazing. >> All right Ari, you've got to run. Quick soundbite. What are you working on, what's exciting you these days? Share a little bit about what's happening. >> A variety of, again it's the full spectrum of storytelling, so it's not one thing. It's really pushing, experiential pushing, branded content pushing, original content that we're getting a lot more into that game. Long form series. VR series. Really, that's kind of the next wave for the company is to set foot, much stronger in the original space, and create our own original IP. Our own original content. >> Awesome, Ari Kuschnir managing partner and founder of Missing Pieces, check them out. Lot of great work. And again, it's a whole new game changing, from storytelling to the tech. The collision between technology and artistry, and creative, and it's happening. It's here at Sundance, at the Intel Tech Lounge. I'm John Furrier with The Cube conversation here at Sundance, which is part of our coverage. Was to look at the angle of Sundance 2018. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Hello, everyone. Welcome to the special CUBE conversation. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, co-host of theCUBE. We're here at Sundance Film Festival, the Intel Tech Lounge for a one on one conversation with Kane Lee, who's the head of content at Baobab Studios in California. Thanks for joining me here at the Intel Tech Lounge. >> Really excited to be here. >> You know we just had a panel on the new creative here, and Intel is showing some great technology. Things like volumetric, all kinds of really hardcore tech. Really powering some of the VR, AR, mixed reality, all the trends that are happening around user experience. But, a new creative artist is out there. A new storyteller. It could be a 12 year old to a 50 year old. You're in the middle of it. You're an award winning producer. So you're building the stories, you're building the content. What's the biggest thing happening here at Sundance? >> I think it's really interesting, because content has always been my passion. Good storytelling. And growing up, it was always books and films, and all these traditional mediums that inspired me to sort of dream, and right here in Sundance, we're in the middle of a great sea change going on, because technology and art are coming together in such a fast pace, to really usher in the new generation of storytelling, and we're all very fortunate to be in the middle of that. This is a very unique period in our history as humans, and our culture, to challenge what storytelling really means, because VR, for us at Baobab, is the next great medium. And Sundance recognizes that. Technology companies like Intel recognize that. So we're all coming together at the film festival, and working together to define what that will mean. >> Kane, you're an Emmy award winning producer. Baobab's doing some cutting edge work. Take a minute to talk about what Baobab is doing, and why is it so relevant? We know it's cool. We've interviewed the CEO and Founder before. Share with the audience, what is Baobab doing? Why is it so relevant? >> So, we formed a couple years ago, and at the time, VR was, and it still is, in its very nascent stage. One thing that we recognized, was an opportunity to try to create content that would appeal for people from the ages of five to 105. There was a lot of documentaries, there was a lot of experiential art house type of material. And there was a lot of gaming type of content for VR. For us, we're big lovers of animation and how that unites families, kids, grandparents, teenagers, and we saw an opportunity to try to create content that could appeal to all of these different types of people through animation. So that's sort of our mission, is to inspire your childlike sense of wonder, using two mediums that are so meant for each other, which are animation and VR. >> I'd like to talk about some of the work you got going on a little bit later, but I want to talk about that 12 year old in his room, or the 16 year old that's got a full rig, tricked out with the keyboard, they're laying down music, they're building music, they're gaming, they might be creating art. They are a living, breathing creative. And, they're self learning. They're jumping on Youtube. They're jumping into VR meetups and groups. They're self learning. >> Kane: Absolutely. >> How do you connect to them? What do they do? What's the playbook? How do these people go to the next level? What's the industry doing around this? >> I think, one example I'll give is, I was at Annecy Film Festival, and that's one of the biggest animation focused film festivals in the world, and I was showcasing our very first piece, it was called Invasion, starring Ethan Hawke, where you're actually in the body of a bunny rabbit, and you meet another bunny rabbit. You create a bond. And together you thwart an alien invasion on Earth. What was so interesting to me, was I had never seen that sort of, that demo, that teenage demo, where young boys and girls would actually bring their parents back to the experience, and say this is what I want to study in college. This is what I want to do in art school. So, I think that they, growing up with all this new technology, really sort of get the idea of being in realtime, and having storytelling in realtime. And seeing that level of interest from that age group was very sort of affirming to us that we're on the right track, in terms of the next generation of storytelling. >> Well you guys are definitely on the right track, I can say that. But I think what your point confirms, and connects the dots for people that might not be in the industry is that the old tech world was, the geeks did it, software was an art and you had to be in that CS club. The democratization is a big trend here, and what you're talking about is, people are humanizing, they can see real emotional, practical examples. So the young guns, the young kids, they don't have baggage. They look at it with a clean slate and going, I want that. I can see myself using this. I can self actualize with this. So really kind of tips the scales, and proves the point. >> Absolutely. We world premiered Asteroids, our second VR experience, starring Elizabeth Banks, and one of the biggest millennial stars, Ingrid Nilson, last year at Sundance. Even had the first red carpet VR premiere in Sundance history. And watching the younger generation, it was our first piece where we actually used the controllers that had just come out in that past year. And watching them go in with no preconceived notions on what using controllers could be, to be a character in the experience, it was just fascinating, because they picked it up faster than anyone, and learned the language of being a character, and having hand controllers as a robot, so you could play fetch with an alien dog, or you could mirror their actions, or they might mirror yours, and creating these bonds and these experiences. So, that sort of fresh perspective is really exciting. >> Talk about the role of these experiences, and how they connect people, because one of the big trends also online today, in today's, I would say, yeah the peg the evolution is, you're really getting into the immersive experience, I believe that. But, content creates bonds between people, and good experiences creates glue between relationships, and forges new ones, maybe enhances existing ones. This is a big part of the media. >> Absolutely. For us, emotional connection is the key to getting people to put on headsets, and to come back to our experiences. And that emotional connection for us, is what we've witnessed, in terms of people forming bonds with our characters. So, everyone knows that VR can bring you to brand new worlds, and exciting places, and immerse you in places that you can never go. But, the one thing that I think we learned in our experience with VR, is that if you can create a bond between the user and other characters in the experience that they believe is real, and we use psychology, technology, and storytelling to do that, then they want to come back again and again. So, one of the trickiest parts of VR is trying to get people to have repeat views. And the feedback we've gotten from a lot of the technology platforms is people come back time and time again, and it seems to be because they actually believe these characters are real, and that they're friends. >> So talk about your journey, because you're at the front end of this wave, and you're participating, you're creating art, you're creating work product. You're building technology with the Baobab Studios. What would you do if you were 16? If you were a sophomore in high school, knowing what you know, and you could go back in time, or you could be today what you know at 16, what would you do? >> When I was 16, I had no idea what I was going to do. When I graduated from college, I had no idea what I was going to do. But what I will say is, VR is really unique because it's so interdisciplinary. So, it actually invites people from all different fabrics of society, and different types of education. The most, I would encourage 16 year olds to just be who they are, and to play. And if I talked to my 16 year old self, I would have just encouraged myself to follow my interest and pursuits more, because many years later, actually VR has brought me back to a lot of my roots, and different things that I studied growing up, and was fascinated by. >> So it ignited your passion. >> Absolutely. >> Or things that you were really into, that you might have forgotten. Is that- >> Yeah, I studied something called symbolic systems at Stanford University, and I had no idea what I was doing. It combined computer science, psychology, linguistics, and philosophy. And the first thing I did after college was pursue potentially a career as a lawyer. But now it all makes sense. VR makes, brings everything together. >> What could have been, you know? >> Absolutely. >> Well, a lot of neural network, symbolic systems, this is the underpinnings of this complex fabric that is powering this content market. So I'd love to get your thoughts. Is there a success formula that you're seeing emerging, I know there's no silver bullet yet. A lot of experimentation. A lot of new things happening. But as this technology, and the scaffolding around it is being built, while also original content is being built, it's still evolving. What's the success formula, and what's the pitfall? What to stay away from? >> I think it's about, it's really about good storytelling. And I think it's a time to be courageous and brave, and put forward stories that wouldn't have otherwise been told in the more traditional mediums. Our latest project in production that I'm so personally excited about, is called Legend of Crow. It stars John Legend as a beautiful bird with the most beautiful feathers, and the most gorgeous voice, who during dark and cold times, must go on a heroes journey to bring light back to the world. Something I feel like in this day and age, a lot of people can relate to. But, on top of this story being based upon a beautiful Native American legend that hasn't really been exposed to the world, we've taken the opportunity to take the themes of diversity and self sacrifice, and self acceptance, to create an all star cast of minorities and women, and that's something I feel the younger generations can really relate to, because having worked a lot in Hollywood as a producer in traditional TV and film, things take a while, and there's a certain way of casting and doing things that follow an older model, and I think younger audiences are excited to have a character like Moth in our experience who speaks both Spanish and English, because that's the way the world is today. >> So I got to ask you a quick, you brought up diversity and inclusion kind of in your comment. I got to bring this up, because you guys do hit a nice demographic that I think is super relevant and important, the younger generation. So I talk to a lot of young people all the time. I say things like, you don't need to be a computer scientist to get into this game. You can be super smart. You don't need to learn how to code hardcore coding to get into this. And they respond to that. And that's one kind of, I would say, narrative that conventional wisdom might not be right. And the other one is the diversity. So my son, 16 year old, says, "Dad, your generation is so politically correct. All this nonsense." So, the younger generation is not living what we're living in, in these dark times, I would say, certainly with diversity, but how does VR really equalize? And will the storm pass? Diversity, inclusion, all that great stuff that are core issues, certainly are being worked on. But, do we see hope here? >> Absolutely. I think disruption in the form of a new technology and a new medium is, while scary to some people, is actually the most exciting and fertile time to equalize. Our CEO, Maureen Fan, who is a college classmate of mine, always wanted to work in animation. And she finally saw the right opportunity when VR came, and we put on headsets for the first time, and saw how there could be a new wave of exciting animators, through this disruptive technology. Because everyone else in more traditional animation is so focused on the old model, and the old ways of doing things, of getting things off the ground, of financing, of creating certain kinds of content that have been proven over time, in the old sort of studio model. >> What were some of those things that were instrumental in this breakout, to forge this new ground? >> I think a lot of it is the technology finally being ready. Our CTO, Larry Cutler, actually studied virtual reality at Stanford a decade before Maureen and I were there, and he had always been waiting for the right time to go into VR. >> Does he preach down, hey kids, I used to walk in the snow with bare feet to you guys, or has he, what's his role, how's he doing? >> He's amazing. He was the head of global character tech for all of Dreamworks animation, and like I said, I think one thing that distinguishes us from some of the other people in VR is that we're so focused on characters, so focused on them making eye contact with you, or with their facial features reacting in realtime, and being very believable, and forging that bond between you and that character. So, for us, that character technology, and having the top people in that space work with us, is the long term thing that is going to differentiate us from the crowd. >> I'd like to get your reaction to my comment about the computer science, and that's mainly, mostly a Silicon Valley thing, living in Palo Alto, so, but people are struggling when they go to college. What should I major in? And there's a narrative right now, oh you got to learn how to code, you got to be a computer science major. You don't. You don't have to be a CS major. Some of the most creative and technical brilliance can also come from other disciplines. What's your reaction to that, and what's your advice? >> I think people should just follow their effort. Because, if you follow what naturally comes to you, what you're good at, and that also has meaning and interest to you, and something that you can get feedback along the way, which is the great thing about being in a growing space, you are going to just spend your, you're going to spend a lot of late nights doing that stuff, and you can always bring it into your career path when that happens. And I think, we're in a very DIY time in VR. No one knows anything. We're constantly making mistakes, but then learning from them. And that's the most exciting process of being where we are. So, to people who are of college age, I would just tell them follow your effort. If you're interested in VR, it's an exciting time to just do it yourself. Learn from your mistakes. And then, and try to create something new. >> What does the new creative mean to you. When you hear that, new creative, what does that mean to you? >> You know, it's interesting being at these talks and panels, and at all these festivals, because I feel like a lot of people are looking for that new innovator who comes out of nowhere, and sort of just redefines the industry. And that could very well happen. But I actually think what's really exciting about right now is, it's more about having, understanding the bridge between all the different mediums and disciplines. I think new things are created when you combine areas that have not been traditionally aligned. So for example, Orson Welles arguably created one of the first great cinematic masterpieces in Citizen Kane, but he was able to do so by bringing values from theater, and from radio, and areas where he sort of learned the art of storytelling. And he was able to combine them in new and interesting ways that people hadn't seen before. So, for me it's less about looking for that silver bullet of a creative person who comes out of nowhere, but these younger generations who understand these different mediums, combining them and creating connections with them in an exciting way. >> Brooks Brown from Starbury Studios said on the panel, the next breakout star is going to be the kid in the basement that no one's ever heard of. >> Very possibly, but that kid in the basement, he needs to be passionate about a lot of different disciplines. So, what we've tried to emulate in doing so, is bringing the best people in gaming, bringing the best people from traditional film, bringing people who had interests in a lot of different areas, different art forms, and letting them kind of play together and learn from each other. Argue with each other, you know? And then come up with something that no one's seen before. >> We're going to have to come up with a camera, so that could be like an experiment. Like it's just a reality show in and of itself. All that talent, multi discipline together. >> Absolutely. >> John: It's like dynamite ready to explode. >> It's the challenge, it's the blessing, it's the curse and the blessing of our medium right now, because there's so much more to discover, but if people come in and have an open mind, and are willing ... If the people from Hollywood are willing to learn from the people who do gaming in Silicon Valley, who are open to learning from the people in New York who grew up on live theater, I feel those, finding that intersection, finding those beautiful intersections are where we're going to thrive. >> Well you guys highlight that multi disciplinary thing, but also highlights why diversity is so important. Diversity brings the most perspectives to the table, the most data, most contribution. It might be a little bit longer to work through the arguments, right? You got to be patient. >> Absolutely you have to be patient. We're really lucky to be working with John Legend on our VR piece. He had actually been looking for several years to find, wanting to play in this space, but not wanting to do it with the wrong partner at the wrong time. So, it's, there's an art to timing in everything that we do right now, and when we presented to him the story we're doing with the Legend of Crow, it felt like the perfect sort of match. >> Legend of Crow coming out. Head of Content, Kane Lee here, Baobab Studios. Thanks for spending the time here on the Cube Conversation. What's the timing of the release of the program? >> Probably late spring, but we're going to be announcing some news around that soon, and we have some more exciting updates about it that I can't wait to share. >> Alright, we are here at the Intel Tech Lounge as the Cube's Conversation at Sundance Film Festival, part of our coverage of Sundance 2018. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, It's the Cube covering NAB 2017. Brought to you by HGST. >> Jeff Rick here with the Cube. We are live in Las Vegas, California at the convention center. At NAB 2017, 102,000 people, a lot of production people talking about everything that has to do with media and entertainment, and also technology. MET is actually the theme this year. Media, Entertainment and Technology. The three are linked together in a way that they've never been before, And we're really excited to have someone really with the content side and the tech side as our guest, it's Justin Simmons. He's the director of technology at the Sundance institute. Justin, welcome. >> Yeah, thank you. >> So everybody knows the Sundance Film Festival. There's a lot of press every year, a lot of cool movies and independent movies. But you're really on the IT side. I wonder if you could explain a little bit. People don't know probably there's kind of an IT story behind Sundance. >> Yeah, I mean when you've got an event that's as big as the Sundance Film Festival, and really the eyes of the world are on it for that period of time, there's so much preparation that goes into it, because you have one shot to get it right. So we really start planning as soon as the festival ends. Sometimes we have multi-year projects. And there is a lot of technology behind it, from websites, to big flash sales, to all the photos that are collected, and all the video that's collected during the event. Also, a lot of people don't know about the Sundance Institute is that we have a year-round program, so we have about 30 lab or educational events that happen year-round all over the world, and those are also generating more media, more files that need to be stored and saved and tracked. >> So what's interesting is back in the day when storage was so expensive, and media was so expensive, storage was actually a negative, it was a liability. Now everyone's finally figured out that data's an asset. You've got to store it, there's ways to store it, you need to get the metadata to make it accessible. So that's really changed the dynamic of the way that people look at keeping all these assets. >> Yeah, I mean we saw really unfortunately a lot of times people would say, don't record it because we don't know where to put it. And it was really frustrating from a technology perspective to hear things like that. Now it's, "Capture everything." >> Jeff: Right. >> And what's happening in such a compressed period of time like that, it is all about metadata and all about workflow to make it efficient. Because if you get behind, it just keeps growing and growing and growing. >> Right. There's a great quote from Sable, from NFL films from back in the day, and he said, "How did you know "to get that in slow motion, that shot?" And he said, "We shoot everything in slow motion, "because you just don't know when "that great play is going to be." So it's a very different mindset to capture everything. So I wonder if you can explain with that mindset, and now you have 4K and 8K and Ultra HD, and tremendous amounts of gear here. How do you attack it from your role? How do you put together a plan that you can capture and manage all this content? >> So for us the first step is really getting the digital asset management system, and incorporating that digital asset management system into the workflow as much as possible. Like I said, you can't be happening behind. If that work's happening behind, it's just never going to get done. So putting the digital asset management system in the center of the workflow was extremely important. And now that we've got a great digital asset management system, we're using Reach Engine by Levels Beyond. We're looking at ways that different things can plug into that and automate as much as possible, so that when the work's being done, when the scenes are being shot, that metadata's captured and it goes right into the system, and everything flows into storage, into archive, into preservation. >> So you're populating metadata in real time as stuff's being shot. You're not doing it kind of after the fact. >> Yeah, there's a couple of different things going on. One is with photos. Everyone's got badges around their necks, so we're shooting their badges at the festival, and then right at the ingest, those cards come back from the photographers, all the metadata gets tagged in it right then, and it all goes into the digital asset management system. They're selecting their target photos from that set, and then it's off to being posted on the website for press, it's being incorporated into video. And then for video we're using Prelude to tag things in real time that's going right into digital asset management system, and then using Adobe Premier, in conjunction with the digital asset management system, we're able to make sure all the metadata that's done during the editing process also stays with those assets, because we have 35 years of history at the organization, and we want to make sure that we're keeping that indefinitely. >> Jeff: Right. >> So there's no point we're like, well, we don't need the 1988 festival anymore. >> (laughs) And then how's cloud impacted your world, and added a new asset class. The knock on cloud before, one of the knocks, especially for film and video, the assets are so big, right? And the speed of light is just too damn slow, some would say, for moving this stuff around. That said, you can put a tremendous amount of capability and compute and store and power at the hands of anybody worldwide, consistent distribution. So how have you guys integrated a cloud strategy in what you do? >> So we went really aggressive on cloud about 2011, 2012. And we ran into the limitations really quickly. The speed, and the cost when you start going at scale. This started to impact us. But there was areas that cloud was really successful, like our frontend web servers, we could just scale them up, during that event, we really need this kind of extreme performance for just a couple days a year. So being able to spin up 30 instances of the web server, bunch of database, have a million people a day hit that. That's great. Where we've struggled is on the media and entertainment side, to make cloud cost-effective when you're going really big with storage, and then also getting the performance that we need. So we've pulled that back, more of the media storage from the cloud, but where we're going to continue to use it is on collaboration. So now I'm sure we're not unique in this, but we've got creators and collaborators that are everywhere. And the content's being created all over and everywhere, so we want to use the cloud to capture that content, and we also want to use the cloud to help collaborate with whatever editor, sound mixer that we're working with. I also think cloud has now become increasingly important to the independent film community. A lot of these productions have small budgets, and they're looking to be as effective as possible, so they are collaborating globally, and so they're going to cloud. And I think it's going to be really interesting over the next couple years to see what solutions come up really targeted towards the independent film community that make it accessible for these productions. They're going to be around for a year or two They need a solution to get back up. They need to collaborate, and it all needs to happen very quickly, and for a reasonable cost. >> Right. Right. And what about on the distribution side? So it used to be you went to the movies, and then you got it on Netflix, or you DVR'd it, or TiVo, but now there's so many ways that people are consuming media, whether it be a social media like Twitter or Snapchat or Instagram, versus YouTube and Vimeo, those types of platforms. How are you kind of addressing the multi distribution opportunities within the assets that you guys have? >> So we do a lot of livestream, we do a lot of YouTube, and we've been doing that for a long time. But what we've seen recently over the last couple years with the filmmakers themselves is a real shift toward using, doing electronic delivery for large digital cinema packages. So these DCP files can be 100 gigabytes plus, and we just started seeing people really adopt digital delivery for those in the last couple years. So the Sundance Film Festival comes in kind of at the beginning of a film's life. And what a lot of these filmmakers are hoping to do at the festival is get distribution. So from there, they're able to now take that DCP file, they're not shipping hard drives, they're not shipping film prints, and they're now taking that through the distribution path. And it's not something the institute's directly involved in, but we facilitate that where the industry comes to meet with these independent film and independent artists. >> Okay. So last question before I let you go, what are some of your priorities for 2017? >> So my priorities for 2017 is preservation. So we've been doing a lot of work around organizing our files and our media, but we didn't have a really effective way of preserving the content. So we had just a bunch of big file servers sitting out there, and we had a replicating thing between them, and so I needed a solution that would actually take those files that would be integrated into the workflow, and actually protect it. So that's where we're working with Western Digital as official provider to help us actually protect and preserve our digital media assets. So using our digital asset management system with Reach Engine as part of that workflow, we're going to have the files that are sitting on our production storage but then another copy is going to be put onto the HGST object storage. So, and there the preservation is at a level that I haven't seen on any other device. It's using erasure encoding and splitting the file into multiple parts, and now that file is far better protected than it has been in our current systems. So that's a big priority for us, to get that going and really get these assets protected and preserved. Because like I said, we're planning on keeping these indefinitely. >> Right. Right. It's so sad the stories you hear coming out of Hollywood of an earlier time when it was all on the film, the film wasn't properly protected, so many of these great films didn't survive, or only pieces of them survived, or they've got bits and pieces that they're trying to restore. I'm glad that era has passed. >> Yep. >> All right Justin, well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. I know you're busy, you're conference-hopping, and thanks for stopping by. >> Justin: Yeah, no problem. Thank you. >> All right. He's Justin Simmons, I'm Jeff Rick, You're watching the Cube from NAB 2017. We'll be right back after this short break. Thanks for watching. (digital music)

>>From around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS, and our community partners. >>Hello, and welcome back to the cube live coverage of reinvent 2020 virtual. We're not there this year. It's the cube virtual. We are the cube virtual. I'm your host, John fro with Dave Alante and analyzing our take on the partner day. Um, keynotes and leadership sessions today was AWS APN, which is Amazon partner network global partner network day, where all the content being featured today is all about the partners and what Amazon is doing to create an ecosystem, build the ecosystem, nurture the ecosystem and reinvent what it means to be a partner. Dave, thanks for joining me today on the analysis of Amazon's ecosystem and partner network and a great stuff today. Thanks for coming on. >>Yeah, you're welcome. I mean, watch the keynote this morning. I mean, partners are critical to AWS. Look, the fact is that when, when AWS was launched, it was the developers ate it up. You know, if you're a developer, you dive right in infrastructure is code beautiful. You know, if you're mainstream it, this thing's just got more complex with the cloud. And so there's, there's a big gap right between how I, where I am today and where I want to be. And partners are critical to help helping people get there. And we'll talk about the details of specifically what Amazon did, but I mean, especially when John, when you look at things like smaller outposts, you know, going hybrid, Andy Jassy redefining hybrid, you need partners to really help you plan design, implement, manage at scale. >>Yeah. You know, one of the things I'm always, um, you know, saying nice things about Amazon, but one of the things that they're vulnerable on in my opinion is how they balanced their own SAS offerings and with what they develop in the ecosystem. This has been a constant, um, challenge and, and they've balanced it very well. Um, so other vendors, they are very clear. They make their own software, right. And they have a channel and it's kind of the old playbook. Amazon's got to reinvent the playbook here. And I think that's, what's key today on stage Doug Yom. He's the, uh, the leader you had, um, also Dave McCann who heads up marketplace and Sandy Carter who heads up worldwide public sector partners. So Dave interesting combination of three different teams, you had the classic ISV partners in the ecosystem, the cohesiveness of the world, the EMCs and so on, you had the marketplace with Dave McCann. That's where the future of procurement is. That's where people are buying product and you had public sector, huge tsunami of innovation happening because of the pandemic and Sandy is highlighting their partners. So it's partner day it's partner ecosystem, but multiple elements. They're moving marketplace where you buy programs and competencies with public sector and then ISV, all of those three areas are changing. Um, I want to get your take because you've been following ecosystems years and you've been close to the enterprise and how they buy your, >>And I think, I think John, Oh, a couple of things. One is, you know, Dave McCann was talking a lot about how CIO is one of modernize applications and they have to rationalize, and it will save some of that talk for later on, you know, Tim prophet on. But there's no question that Amazon's out to reinvent, as you said, uh, the whole experience from procurement all the way through, and, you know, normally you had to, to acquire services outside of the marketplace. And now what they're doing is bundling the services and software together. You know, it's straightforward services, implementation services, but those are well understood. The processes are known. You can pretty much size them and price them. So I think that's a huge opportunity for partners and customers to reduce friction. I think the other thing I would say is ecosystems are, are critical. >>Uh, one of the themes that we've been talking about in the cube as we've gone from a product centric world in the old days of it to a platform centric world, which has really been the last decade has been about SAS platforms and cloud platforms. And I think ecosystems are going to be a really power, the new innovation in the coming decade. And what I mean by that is look, if you're just building a service and Amazon is going to do that same service, you know, you got to keep innovating. And one of the ways you can innovate is you can build on ecosystems. There's all this data within industries, across industries, and you can through the partner network and through customer networks within industry start building new innovation around ecosystems and partners or that glue, Amazon's not going to go in. And like Jandy Jesse even said in the, uh, in his fireside chat, you know, customers will ask us for our advice and we're happy to give it to them, but frankly partners are better at that nitty gritty hardcore stuff. They have closer relationships with the customers. And so that's a really important gap that Amazon has been closing for the last, you know, frankly 10 years. And I think that to your point, they've still got a long way to go, but that's a huge opportunity in that. >>A good call out on any Jess, I've got to mention that one of the highlights of today's keynote was on a scheduled, um, Andy Jassy fireside chat. Uh, normally Andy does his keynote and then he kind of talks to customers and does his thing normally at a normal re-invent this time he came out on stage. And I think what I found interesting was he was talking about this builder. You always use the word builder customer, um, solutions. And I think one of the things that's interesting about this partner network is, is that I think there's a huge opportunity for companies to be customer centric and build on top of Amazon. And what I mean by that is, is that Amazon is pretty cool with you doing things on top of their platform that does two things serves the customer's needs better than they do, and they can make more money on and other services look at snowflake as an example, um, that's a company built on AWS. I know they've got other clouds going on, but mainly Amazon Zoom's the same way. They're doing a great solution. They've got Redshift, Amazon, Amazon's got Redshift, Dave, but also they're a customer and a partner. So this is the dynamic. If you can be successful on Amazon serving customers better than Amazon does, that's the growth hack. That's the hack on Amazon's partner network. If you could. >>I think, I think Snowflake's a really good example. You snowflake you use new Relic as an example, I've heard Andy Jess in the past use cloud air as an example, I like snowflake better because they're, they're sort of thriving. And so, but, but I will say this there's a, they're a great example of that ecosystem that we just talked about because yes, not only are they building on AWS, they're connecting to other clouds and that is an ecosystem that they're building out. And Amazon's got a lot of snowflake, I guess, unless you're the Redshift team, but, but generally speaking, Snowflake's driving a lot of business for Amazon and Andy Jesse addressed that in that, uh, in that fireside chat, he's asked that question a lot. And he said, look, we, we, we have our primary services. And at the same time we want to enable our partners to be successful. And snowflake is a really good example of that. >>Yeah. I want to call out also, uh, yesterday. Um, I had our Monday, I should say Tuesday, December 1st, uh, Jesse's keynote. I did an interview with Jerry chin with gray lock. He's investing in startups and one of the things he observed and he pointed out Dave, is that with Amazon, if you're, if you're a full all-in in the cloud, you're going to take advantage of things that are just not available on say on premises that is data patterns, other integrations. And I think one of the things that Doug pointed out was with interoperability and integration with say things like the SAS factor that they put out there there's advantages for being in the cloud specifically with Amazon, that you can get on integrations. And I think Dave McCann teases that out with the marketplace when they talk about integrations. But the idea of being in the cloud with all these other partners makes integration and interoperability different and unique and better potentially a differentiator. This is going to become a huge deal. >>I didn't pick up on that because yesterday I thought I wasn't in the keynote. I think it was in the analyst one-on-one with, with Jesse, he talked about, you know, this notion that people, I think he was addressing multi-cloud he didn't use that term, but this notion of an abstraction layer and how it does simplify things in, in his basic, he basically said, look, our philosophy is we want to have, you know, the, the ability to go deep with the primitives and have that fine grain access, because that will give us control. A lot of times when you put in this abstraction layer, which people are trying to do across clouds, you know, it limits your ability to really move fast. And then of course it's big theme is, is this year, at the same time, if you look at a company who was called out today, like, like Octa, you know, when you do an identity management and single sign-on, you're, you're touching a lot of pieces, there's a lot of integration to your point. >>So you need partners to come in and be that glue that does a lot of that heavy lifting that needs to needs to be done. Amazon. What Jessie was essentially saying, I think to the partner network is, look, we're not going to put in that abstraction layer. You're going to you, you got to do that. We're going to do stuff maybe between our own own services like they did with the, you know, the glue between databases, but generally speaking, that's a giant white space for partner organizations. He mentioned Okta. He been talked about in for apt Aptio. This was Dave McCann, actually Cohesity came up a confluent doing fully managed Kafka. So that to me was a signal to the partners. Look, here's where you guys should be playing. This is what customers need. And this is where we're not going to, you know, eat your lunch. >>Yeah. And the other thing McCann pointed out was 200 new Dave McCann pointed out who leads these leader of the, of the marketplace. He pointed out 200 new ISP. ISV is out there, huge news, and they're going to turn already. He went, he talked with his manage entitlements, which got my attention. And this is kind of an, um, kind of one of those advantage points that it's kind of not sexy and mainstream to talk about, but it's really one of those details. That's the heavy lifting. That's a pain in the butt to deal with licensing and tracking all this compliance stuff that goes on under the covers and distribution of software. I think that's where the cloud could be really advantaged. And also the app service catalog registry that he talked about and the professional services. So these are areas that Amazon is going to kind of create automation around. >>And as Jassy always talks about that undifferentiated heavy lifting, they're going to take care of some of these plumbing issues. And I think you're right about this differentiation because if I'm a partner and I could build on top of Amazon and have my own cloud, I mean, let's face it. Snowflake is a born in the cloud, in the cloud only solution on Amazon. So they're essentially Amazon's cloud. So I think the thing that's not being talked about this year, that is probably my come up in future reinvents is that whoever can build their own cloud on top of Amazon's cloud will be a winner. And I, I talked about this years ago, data around this tier two, I call it tier two clouds. This new layer of cloud service provider is going to be kind of the, on the power law, the, the second wave of cloud. >>In other words, you're on top of Amazon differentiating with a modern application at scale inside the cloud with all the other people in there, a whole new ecosystem is going to emerge. And to me, I think this is something that is not yet baked out, but if I was a partner, I would be out there planning like hell right now to say, I'm going to build a cloud business on Amazon. I'm going to take advantage of the relationships and the heavy lifting and compete and win that way. I think that's a re redefining moment. And I think whoever does that will win >>And a big theme around reinventing everything, reinvent the industry. And one of the areas that's being reinvented as is the, you know, the VAR channel really well, consultancies, you know, smaller size for years, these companies made a ton of dough selling boxes, right? All the, all the Dell and the IBM and the EMC resellers, you know, they get big boats and big houses, but that business changed dramatically. They had to shift toward value, value, value add. So what did they do? They became VMware specialists. They came became SAP specialists. There's a couple of examples, maybe, you know, adding into security. The cloud was freaking them out, but the cloud is really an opportunity for them. And I'll give you an example. We've talked a lot about snowflake. The other is AWS glue elastic views. That's what the AWS announced to connect all their databases together. Think about a consultancy that is able to come in and totally rearchitect your big data life cycle and pipeline with the people, the processes, the skillsets, you know, Amazon's not going to do that work, but the upside value for the organizations is tremendous. So you're seeing consultancies becoming managed service providers and adding all kinds of value throughout the stack. That's really reinvention of the partnership. >>Yeah. I think it's a complete, um, channel strategy. That's different. It doesn't, it looks like other channels, but it's not, it's, it's, it's driven by value. And I think this idea of competing on value versus just being kind of a commodity play is shifting. I think the ISV and the VARs, those traditional markets, David, as you pointed out, are going to definitely go value oriented. And you can just own a specialty area because as data comes in and when, and this is interesting. And one of the key things that Andy Jassy said in his fireside chat want to ask directly, how do partners benefit when asked about his keynote, how that would translate to partners. He really kind of went in and he was kind of rambling, but he, he, he hit the chips. He said, well, we've got our own chips, which means compute. Then he went into purpose-built data store and data Lake data, elastic views SageMaker Q and QuickSight. He kind of went down the road of, we have the horsepower, we have the data Lake data, data, data. So he was kind of hinting at innovate on the data and you'll do okay. >>Well, and this is again, we kind of, I'm like a snowflake fan boy, you know, in the way you, you like AWS. But look, if you look at AWS glue elastic views, that to me is like snowflakes data cloud is different, a lot of pushing and moving a date, a lot of copying data. But, but this is a great example of where like, remember last year at reinvent, they said, Hey, we're separating compute from storage. Well, you know, of course, snowflake popularized that. So this is great example of two companies thriving that are both competitors and partners. >>Well, I've got to ask you, you know, you, you and I always say we kind of his stories, we've been around the block on the enterprise for years. Um, where do you Mark the, um, evolution of their partner? Because again, Amazon has been so explosive in their growth. The numbers have been off the charts and they've done it well with and pass. And now you have the pandemic which kind of puts on full display, digital transformation. And then Jassy telegraphing that the digital global it spend is their next kind of conquering ground, um, to take, and they got the edge exploding with 5g. So you have this kind of range and they doing all kinds of stuff with IOT, and they're doing stuff in you on earth and in space. So you have this huge growth and they still don't have their own fully oriented business model. They rely on people to build on top of Amazon. So how do you see that evolving in your opinion? Because they're trying to add their own Amazon only, we've got Redshift that competes with others. How do you see that playing out? >>So I think it's going to be specialized and, and something that, uh, that I've talked about is Amazon, you know, AWS in the old day, old days being last decade, they really weren't that solution focused. It was really, you know, serving the builders with tooling, with you, look at something like what they're doing in the call center and what they're doing at the edge and IOT there. I think they're, so I think their move up the stack is going to be very solution oriented, but not necessarily, you know, horizontal going after CRM or going after, you know, uh, supply chain management or ERP. I don't think that's going to be their play. I think their play is going to be to really focus on hard problems that they can automate through their tooling and bring special advantage. And that's what they'll SAS. And at the same time, they'll obviously allow SAS players. >>It's just reminds me of the early days when you and I first met, uh, VMware. Everybody had to work with VMware because they had a such big ecosystem. Well, the SAS players will run on top. Like Workday does like Salesforce does Infour et cetera. And then I think you and I, and Jerry Chen talked about this years ago, I think they're going to give tools to builders, to disrupt the service now is in the sales forces who are out buying companies like crazy to try to get a, you know, half, half a billion dollar, half a trillion dollar market caps. And that is a really interesting dynamic. And I think right now, they're, they're not even having to walk a fine line. I think the lines are reasonably clear. We're going up to database, we're going to do specialized solutions. We're going to enable SAS. We're going to compete where we compete, come on, partner ecosystem. And >>Yeah, I, I, I think that, you know, the Slack being bought by Salesforce is just going to be one of those. I think it's a web van moment, you know, um, you know, where it's like, okay, Slack is going to go die on Salesforce. Okay. I get that. Um, but it's, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just old school thinking. And I think if you're an entrepreneur and if you're a developer or a partner, you could really reinvent the business model because if you're, dis-aggregating all these other services like you can compete with Salesforce, Slack has now taken out of the game with Salesforce, but what Amazon is doing with say connect, which they're promoting heavily at this conference. I mean, you hear it, you heard it on Andy Jessie's keynote, Sandy Carter. They've had huge success with AWS connect. It's a call center mindset, but it's not calling just on phones. >>It's contact that is descent, intermediating, the Salesforce model. And I think when you start getting into specialists and specialism in channels, you have customer opportunity to be valuable. And I think call center, these kinds of stories that you can stand up pretty quickly and then integrate into a business model is going to be game changing. And I think that's going to going to a lot of threat on these big incumbents, like Salesforce, like Slack, because let's face it. Bots is just the chat bot is just a call center front end. You can innovate on the audio, the transcriptions there's so much Amazon goodness there, that connect. Isn't just a call center that could level the playing field and every vertical >>Well, and SAS is getting disrupted, you know, to your, to your point. I mean, you think about what happened with, with Oracle and SAP. You had, you know, these new emerging players come up like, like Salesforce, like Workday, like service now, but their pricing model, it was all the same. We lock you in for a one-year two-year three-year term. A lot of times you have to pay up front. Now you look at guys like Datadog. Uh, you, you look at a snowflake, you look at elastic, they're disrupting the Splunks of the world. And that model, I think that SAS model is right for disruption with a consumption pricing, a true cloud pricing model. You combine that with new innovation that developers are going to attack. I mean, you know, people right now, they complain about service now pricing, they complain about Splunk pricing. They, you know, they talk about, Oh, elastic. We can get that for half the price Datadog. And so I'm not predicting that those companies service now Workday, the great companies, but they are going to have to respond much in the same way that Oracle and SAP had to respond to the disruption that they saw. >>Yeah. It's interesting. During the keynote, they'll talk about going out to the mainframes today, too. So you have Amazon going into Oracle and Microsoft, and now the mainframes. So you have Oracle database and SQL server and windows server all going to being old school technologies. And now mainframe very interesting. And I think the, this whole idea of this SAS factory, um, got my attention to Cohesity, which we've been covering Dave on the storage front, uh, Mo with the founder was on stage. I'm a data management as a service they're part of this new SAS factory thing that Amazon has. And what they talk about here is they're trying to turn ISV and VARs into full-on SAS providers. And I think if they get that right with the SAS factory, um, then that's going to be potentially game changing. And I'm gonna look at to see if what the successes are there, because if Amazon can create more SAS applications, then their Tam and the global it market is there is going to, it can be mopped up pretty quickly, but they got to enable it. They got to enable that quickly. Yeah. >>Enabling to me means not just, and I think, you know, when Jesse answered your question, I saw it in the article that you wrote about, you know, you asked them about multi-cloud and it, to me, it's not about running on AWS and being compatible with Azure and being compatible with Google. No, it's about that frankly abstraction layer that he talked about, and that's what Cohesity is trying to do. You see others trying to do it as well? Snowflake for sure. It's about abstracting that complexity away and adding value on top of the cloud. In other words, you're using the cloud for scale being really expert at taking advantage of the native cloud services, which requires is that Jessie was saying different API APIs, different control, plane, different data plane, but taking that complexity away and then adding new value on top that's white space for a lot of players there. And, and, and I'll tell you, it's not trivial. It takes a lot of R and D and it takes really smart people. And that's, what's going to be really interesting to see, shake out is, you know, can the Dell and HPE, can they go fast enough to compete with the, the Cohesity's you've got guys like CLU Mayo coming in that are, that are brand new. Obviously we talked about snowflake a lot and many others. >>I think there's going to be a huge change in expectations, experience, huge opportunity for people to come in with unique solutions. We're going to have specialty programming on the cube all day today. So if you're watching us here on the Amazon channel, you know that we're going to have an all of a sudden demand. There's a little link on our page. On the, on the, um, the Amazon reinvent virtual event platform, click here, the bottom, it's going to be a landing page, check out all the interviews as we roll them out all day. We got a great lineup, Dave, we got Nutanix pure storage, big ID, BMC, Amazon leaders, all coming in to talk today. Uh, chaos search ed Walsh, Rachel Rose, uh, Medicar Kumar, um, Mike Gill, flux, tons of great, great, uh, partners coming in and they're going to share their story and what's working for them and their new strategies. And all throughout the day, you're going to hear specific examples of how people are changing and reinventing their business development, their partnership strategies on the product, and go to market with Amazon. So really interesting learnings. We're going to have great conversations all throughout the day. So check it out. And again, everything's going to be on demand. And when in doubt, go to the cube.net, we have everything there and Silicon angle.com, uh, for all the great coverage. So >>I don't think John is, we're going to have a conversation with him. David McCann touched on this. You talked about the need for modernization and rationalization, Tim Crawford on, on later. And th this is, this is sort of the, the, uh, the call-out that Andy Jassy made in his keynote. He gave the story of that one. CIO is a good friend of his who said, Hey, I love what you're doing, but it's not going to happen on my watch. And, and so, you know, Jessie's sort of poking at that, that, uh, complacency saying, guys, you have to reinvent, you have to go fast, you have to keep moving. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about what, what does that mean to modernize applications, why the CIO is want to rationalize what is the role of AWS and its ecosystem and providing that, that, that level of innovation, and really try to understand what the next five to seven years are gonna look like in that regard. >>Funny, you mentioned, uh, Andy Jesuit that story. When I had my one-on-one conversation with them, uh, he was kind of talking about that anonymous CIO and I, if people don't know Andy, he's a big movie buff, too, right? He loves it goes to Sundance every year. Um, so I said to him, I said, this error of digital transformation, uh, is kind of like that scene in the godfather, Dave, where, um, Michael Corleone goes to Tom Hagen, Tom, you're not a wartime conciliary. And what he meant by that was is that, you know, they were going to war with the other five families. I think now I think this is what chassis pointed out is that, that this is such an interesting, important time in history. And he pointed this out. If you don't have the leadership chops to lean into this, you're going to get swept away. >>And that story about the CIO being complacent. Yeah. He didn't want to shift. And the new guy came in or gal and they, and they, and they lost three years, three years of innovation. And the time loss, you can't get that back. And during this time, I think you have to have the stomach for the digital transformation. You have to have the fortitude to go forward and face the truth. And the truth is you got to learn new stuff. So the old way of doing things, and he pointed that out very aggressively. And I think for the partners, that same thing is true. You got to look in the mirror and say, where are we? What's the opportunity. And you gotta gotta go there. If not, you can wait, be swept away, be driftwood as Pat Gelsinger would say, or lean in and pick up a, pick up a shovel and start digging the new solution. >>You know what the other interesting thing, I mean, every year when you listen to Jassy and his keynotes and you sort of experienced re-invent culture comes through and John you're live in Silicon Valley, you talked to leaders of Silicon Valley, you know, well, what's the secret of success though? Nine times out of 10, they'll talk about culture, maybe 10 times out of 10. And, and, and so that's, that comes through in Jesse's keynotes. But one of the things that was interesting this year, and it's been thematic, you know, Andy, you know, repetition is important, uh, to, to him because he wants to educate people and make sure it sticks. One of the things that's really been he's been focused on is you actually can change your culture. And there's a lot of inertia. People say, well, not on my watch. Well, it doesn't work that way around here. >>And then he'll share stories about how AWS encourages people to write papers. Anybody in the organization say we should do it differently. And, and you know, they have to follow their protocol and work backwards and all of those stuff. But I believe him when he says that they're open to what you have a great example today. He said, look, if somebody says, well, it's 10 feet and somebody else says, well, it's, it's five feet. He said, okay, let's compromise and say it's seven and a half feet. Well, we know it's not seven and a half feet. We don't want to compromise. We either want to be a 10, Oh, we want to be at five, which is the right answer. And they push that. And that that's, he gives examples like that for the AWS culture, the working backwards, the frequently asked questions, documents, and he's always pushing. And that to me is very, very important and fundamental to understanding AWS. >>It's no doubt that Andy Jassy is the best CEO in the business. These days. If you look at him compared to everyone else, he's hands down, more humble as keynote who does three hour keynotes, the way he does with no notes with no, he memorize it all. So he's competitive and he's open. And he's a good leader. I think he's a great CEO. And I think it will be written and then looked back at his story this time in history. The next, I think post COVID Dave is going to be an error. We're going to look back and say the digital transformation was accelerated. Yes, all that good stuff, people process technology. But I think we're gonna look at this time, this year and saying, this was the year that there was before COVID and after COVID and the people who change and modernize will build the winners and not, and the losers will, will be sitting still. So I think it's important. I think that was a great message by him. So great stuff. All right. We gotta leave it there. Dave, the analysis we're going to be back within the power panel. Two sessions from now, stay with us. We've got another great guest coming on next. And then we have a pair of lb talk about the marketplace pricing and how enterprises have CIO is going to be consuming the cloud in their ecosystem. This is the cube. Thanks for watching..

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP. Discover Virtual Experience Brought to you by HP >>Hello and welcome back to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover Virtual experience. This is the Cube. I'm John Furrier, your host. We're here in the Palo Alto studio with remote interviews. We have a great innovation story here with Disney and HBO. ET Al is tailor vice president of content innovation with studio lab Disney. And so men do suck. Sarkar, distinguished technologist, director of AI at HP. Thanks for coming on, Alice. Someone do. Thank you for taking the time. >>It's great to be here. Hi, >>I love this story. I think it's the innovation story, and I think it's going to be one that will experience in our life going forward. That is media, video and experiences and this innovation in AI. It's a lot to do with the collaboration between Disney Studio Labs Alice that you're running and it's super super important and fun as well. Very relevant. Cool. So first, before we get started, Alice, >>take a minute >>to explain a little about yourself and how Studio Lab came about. Yeah, >>McGuinness Studio lab is just over in its second year of operation. It was an idea that was had by our CTO. I'm going to say, three years ago and at the time, just previously before that I had a start up company that came through the Disney accelerators. So I was already inside the building and, um, the team there said Felicity on the said, You know, we need to start up an innovation lab that will investigate storytelling through emerging technology, and that's basically being the majority of my background. So I said Yes on then. Since then, we'll be going a team. We opened the lab in May of 2018 and here we are in the middle of Pandemic. But it has grown like crazy. Its just a wonderful place to be and to operate. And we've been doing some amazing projects with some amazing partners, >>and it's not unusual that an entrepreneur has this kind of role to think outside the box. We'll get some of that talk about your experiences, and I wonder how you got into this position because you came in as an entrepreneur. You're doing some creative things. Tell us that story real quick. >>Yeah, Okay, well, so as you could sell on British. My actual background started. My whole career started in technology in the mid nineties. A Xai started as a training video editor but then switched very quickly and 95 building websites. And from there on, it was Internet all the way. But I've always focused on storytelling. And, you know, much of my background is working for broadcasters and media and content creators. So those five years of the BBC in there already department and, um actually out here is VP of digital media for them and then Channel four as well. And throughout the whole process, I was always interested in how to tell stories with new technology and the new mediums as they emerged. So yep, flights side story and doing a startup which was actually in toys and video games, but again, big digital storytelling environments for Children. And then I came round. Robin, if you like into Disney and here we are still looking at how to you make films and episodic content. Even Mawr. You name it faster, better, more exciting. Using the best and greatest in emerging tech as we find it, >>and the lab that you're doing is it's an accelerant, almost four new technologies. Your job is to what? Look out over the horizon next 10 years or so to figure out what's next. It's >>not a structure. I think you have >>some rain to be creative and experiment >>Well, yeah, I mean, in fact. So it's a studio live at the studios. We'll Disney has eight studios at the moment, and what we do is we look at actually the whole breath of storytelling. So right from the moment when a creative has an idea through to how our guests and fans might be receiving the end product out in the world and we segregate those that that whole breadth from into three categories i d. Eight. When you know the process of generating the idea and building it, make how we make it where we make it, what we make it with on that experience, how we experience it out in the world. So we have a whole SNU of projects. The studio level so works with some of the best technology companies in the world, and we call those are innovation partners on. We sign these partnerships really to bring what we like to call superpowers to the system we like to think. But the combination of those companies and what comes out of these projects is going to give our filmmakers superpowers, but also that combinatorial effect of Disney. You know, in this case, for instance, working with HP like produces something that Disney couldn't necessarily do on its own or the HP. He couldn't necessarily do it on his own, either. So, yeah, it's a huge remit, and we tend to look, we don't look quite so far out. Generally speaking as 10 years, it's more like three to now. We don't do day to day operational work, but we try to pick something up a couple of years before it's going to be operationally ready and really investigated then and get a bit of a head start. >>Well, it's great. Have HBs partner and And having that bench of technology software people is just a nice power source for you as well. Someone to talk about the relation HP relationship with Disney because, um, you got a lot of deep technical from the lab standpoint to resilient technology. How are you involved? What's your role? You guys sitting around you riff and put a white board together and say, Hey, we're gonna solve these big problems. Here is the future of consumption. That is the future of video. What goes on? Tell us your the relationship between you guys. >>Yeah, it's a good question at HP. We don't really make the service, but what we also do is we work quite a lot on optimizing some of the artificial intelligence solutions and algorithms on the DP use and scale it across servers. So So you don't have this opportunity came up from Disney, where this thing came up with a very innovative solution where they were solving the video quality problem. As as, you know, there are a lot of blemishes and in the video that can come up and didn't want to fix all of them. And they have great algorithm. But what happens is, but with better guards comes a huge amount of computational complexity, which needs a little bit of heterogeneous compute input in parallel processing and in sequential processing. So we thought that it's a perfect on, and it's a combination off the skill sets to make this video quality software execute at speed switch needed for production. Disney. >>So it's good to have a data center whenever you need it to. You guys have a great technology. We hear a lot more from the execs at HB on our reporting else. Want to get your thoughts? We're covering some of this new edge technologies. We're talking about new experiences. I gave a talk at Sundance a few years ago, called The New Creative Class, and it's really about this next wave of art and filmmakers who are using the tools of the trade, which is a cell phone and and really set of Asti studios and use the technology. Can you give us some examples of how Studio Lab collaborates with filmmakers and execs to push the push, the art and technology of storytelling to be fresh? Because the sign of the times, our instagram, tic tac, this is just very elementary. The quality and the storytelling is pretty basic dopamine in, but you can almost imagine the range of quality that's going to come so access to more people, certainly more equipment, cameras, etcetera. What's next? How do you guys see? What's some examples can you share? >>It's an amazing question. I mean, we're working on films and episodic. It's rather than very short form content, obviously, but you're absolutely right. There's a lot of consumer grade technology that is entering the production pipeline in many ways and in many areas, whether it's phones or iPads first using certain bits of software. One of the things that we're building at the moment is the ability Teoh generate vertical metric models, capturing with consumer drones or even iPhones, and then use it getting that data into a three D model as soon as possible. There's a really big theme. What we want to do is like make the process more efficient so that our creatives and the folks working on productions aren't having to slog through something that's slow and tedious. They want to get to the story, telling the art in the act of storytelling as much as possible. And so waiting for a model to render or waiting for their QC process toe finished is what we want to kind of get rid of so they can really get to the meat of the problem much, much faster and just going back to what Mandy was saying about the AI project here I mean, it was about finding the dead pixels on screen when we do our finished prints, which would you believe we do with humans? Humans at their best historically have been the best of finding dead pixels. But what a job I have to do at the end of the process to go through quality control and then have to go and manually find the little dead pixels in each frame of our print. Right? Nobody actually wants to be doing that job. So the algorithm goes and looks follows automatically. And then HP came in and spread that whole process up by nine X. So now it actually runs fast enough to be used on our final prince. >>You know, it's interesting in the tech trend for the past 10 15 years that I've been covering cloud technology. Even in the early days, it was kind of on the fringe them because mainstream. But all the trends were more agility, faster taking with ah, heavy lifting so that the focus on the job at hand when it's creative writing software. This is kind of a success formula, and you're kind of applying it to film and creation, which is still like software is kind of same thing, almost so you know, when you see these new technologies that love to get both your reactions of this. One of the big misses that people kind of miss is the best stuff is often misunderstood until it's understood. And we're kind of seeing that now. A covert our ones. From a way, I could have seen this. No, no one predicted. So what's >>an >>example of something that people might be misunderstanding that super relevant, that that might become super important very quickly? Any thoughts? >>That's great. Well, I can give an example of something that has come and gone and then coming, potentially gone. Except it hasn't it's VR. So it came, you know, whenever it was 20 years ago, and then 10 years ago, and everybody was saying VR is going to change the world And then it reappeared again six years ago again, everybody said it's going to change the world, and in terms of film production, it really has. But that's slightly gone unnoticed, I think, because out in the market everyone is expecting VR to have being a huge consumer success, and I suspect it still will be one day a huge consumer success. But meanwhile, in the background, we're using VR on a daily basis in film production. Virtual production is one of the biggest, um, emerging processes that is happening If you've seen anything to do with, um Jungle Book Line King Man DeLorean. Anything the industrial like magic work on. You're really looking at a lot of virtual production techniques that have ended up on screen, and it is now a technology that we can't do without. I'm gonna have to think two seconds for something that's emerging. Ai and Ml is a huge area, obviously were scratching it. I don't think anyone is going to say that it's going to come and go in this one. This is huge, but we're only just beginning to see where and how we can apply Ai and Ml and you did you wanna jump in on that one? So >>let me take it from the technology standpoint, I think it was also very cool trends. Now what happens is that your ML spaces people have come up with creative ideas. But one of the biggest challenge is how do you take those ideas for commercial, use it on and make and make it work at the speed, as Alice was mentioning, It makes it feasible in production. So accelerating your ML on making it in a form which is visible is super important. And the other aspect of it is just the first video quality that it was mentioning. That picture is one types, and I know the business is working on certain other video qualities to fix the blemishes. But there's a whole variety of these vanishes on with human operators. It's kind of impossible to scale up the production on to find all these different artifacts like, you know, especially now. As you can see, the video is disseminated in your forms in your ipads from like, you know, in that streaming. So this is a problem of scale on do stuff. This is also like, you know, a lot of compute on a very like I said, a lot of collaboration with complimentary skill sets that make it real. >>I was talking with a friend who was an early Apple employees, now retired good friend, and we're talking about all the Dev ops agile go fast scale up, and he made a comment I want to get your reaction to, he said. You know what we're missing is craft and software. You speak crafts game. So when you have speed, you lose craft, and we see that certainly with cloud and agility and then iterating. Then you get to a good product over time. But I think one of the things that's interesting and you guys are kind of teasing out is you can kind of get craft with the help from some of these technologies where you can kind of build crafting into it. Alice, what's your reaction to that? >>One of our favorite anecdotes from The Lion King is so Jon Favreau, the director, built out the virtual production system himself, Teoh with his team to make the film, and it allowed for a smaller production team acting on a smaller footprint. What they didn't do was shortened the time to make the film. What the whole system enabled was more content created within that same amount of time, so effectively John had more takes and more material to make his final film with, and that that's what we want people to have. We want them to have to know ever to have to say I missed my perfect shot because of I don't know what you know. We run out of time so we couldn't get the perfect shot. That's it. That's a terrible thing. We never want that to happen. So where technology can help gather as much material is possible in the most efficient way. Basically, at the end of the day, for our for our creatives, that means more ability to tell a story. >>So someone do. This is an example of the pixel innovation. The Video QC. It's really a burden if you have to go get it and chase it. You can automate that respect from the tech trends. Will automation action in there? >>Yeah, absolutely. And as Chris was mentioning, If you can bridge the gap between imagination and realization, then you have solved the problem that the people who are creative can think on implement something in a very short time, gone back for like, you know, some of these I'm just coming. >>Well, it's a very impressed that I'm looking forward to coming down and visiting studio labs when the world gets back to work. You guys are in the heart of Burbank and all the action and the Euro little incubates really kind of R and D meets commercial commercially. Really cool. But I have to ask you, with covert 19 going on, how are you guys handling? The situation certainly impacted people coming to work. How is your team? Have been impacted. And how are you guys continuing the mission? >>Well, yeah, The lab itself is obviously a physical place on the lot. It's in the old animation building, but it's also this program of innovation that we have with our partners. To be honest, we didn't slow down at all. The team carried on the next day from home, and in fact, we have expanded even because new projects came rolling in as folks who were stuck at home suddenly had needs. So we had editors needing to work work remotely. You know, you name it folks with that home connections, wondering if we had some five G phones hanging around that kind of thing. And so everything really expanded a bit. We are hoping to get back into physical co location as soon as possible, not least to be able to shoot movies again. But I think that there will be an element of this remote working that's baked in forever from here on in not least, cause it was just around. This kind of what this has done has accelerated things like the beginning of cloud adoption properly in the beginning of remote teller work and remote telepresence and then also ideas coming out of that. So ah, you know, again, the other day I heard holograms coming up. Like, Can we have holograms yet? So we don't do it That's going to cover out again. Yeah, but you know what? The team have all been amazing, would. But we'll miss each other. You know, there's something about real life that can't be replaced by technology >>has been a great leader in in accumulating. All HP employees work from removed and in the process. But we're also discovered is we have also, you know, maybe so. We discovered innovative ways where we can still work together. Like so we increase the volume of our virtual collaborations on. I worked with Erica from Disney is a tremendous facilitator and the technologists of mining one. You have this close collaboration going. Andi almost missed nothing, but yes, if you would like to, you know, on the field each other on to be in close proximity. Look at each app in each other's eyes are probably that's only missing thing, but rest off it, You know, we created an environment perfect, clever and work pretty well. And actually, at this point in the process, we also discovered a lot of things which can be done in remote, considering the community of Silicon Valley. >>You know, the final question I want to get your thoughts on is your favorite technology that you're excited about. But someone doing you know, we're talking amongst us nerds and geeks here in Silicon Valley around you know what virtualization server virtualization has done? An HP knows a lot about server virtualization. You're in the server business that created cloud because with virtualization, you could create one server and great many servers. But I think this covert 19 and future beyond it virtualization of life, Immersion of digital is going to bring and change a lot of things. You guys highlight a few of them. Um, this virtualization of life society experiences playing work. It's not just work. It's experiences so Internet of things devices how I'm consuming how I'm producing. It's really going to have an impact. I'd love to get your both of your thoughts on this kind of virtualization of life because certainly impact studio lab, because you think about these things. Alice and HP has to invent that the tech to get scaling up. So final question. What do think about virtualization of life and what technologies do you see that you're excited about to help make our lives better? >>Well, goodness, may, I think we're only beginning to understand the impact that things like video conferencing has on folks. You know, I don't know whether you've seen all of the articles flying around about how it's a lot more work to do video conferencing that you don't have the same subtle cues as you have in real life. And again, you know, virtual technologies like we are on day similar and not going to solve that immediately. So what we'll have to happen is that humans themselves will adapt to the systems. I think, though fundamentally we're about to enter a radical period. We basically have already a radical period of innovation because as folks understand what's at their fingertips. And then what's missing? We're going to see all sorts of startups and new ideas come rushing out as people understand this new paradigm and what they could do to solve for the new pains that come out of it. I mean, just from my perspective, I have back to back nine hours of BTC a day. And by the end of the day, I could barely walk Way gonna do about that. I think we're gonna see holograms like that. We're gonna see home exercise equipment combined. You know, really good ones. Like you've seen politicians shares going crazy. There's tons of that. So I'm just really excited at the kind of three years or so. I think that we're going to see of radical innovation, the likes of which we have always usually being held back by, um other reasons, maybe not enough money or not enough permission. Whereas now people are like we have to fix this problem. >>Well, you've got a great job. I want to come to quit. My job income joined studio left. Sounds like it's a playground of fun. There great stuff. Someone do close us out here. What? Are you excited about as we virtualized you're in the in the labs, creating new technology. You're distinct, technologist and director of AI. When you're on the cutting edge, you're riding the wave two. What's your take on this? >>Virtually? Yeah, you know the experience. What it has done is it has pushed the age to the home. So now if you really see home is one of the principal connectivity to the outside world restaurants. Professional goes on and on with that, What I also offers is like a better experience. Right now. We're all gather about Zoom being able to do a video conferencing. But as this was pointing out there is that here in that we are now consider combining the augmented reality and and the way that we do your conference and all the other innovations that we could begin in the East so that the interactions becomes much more really. And that is like, you know, I'd say that the world is moving to >>l Cool. Thank you very much for that comment and insight really enjoyed. Congratulations on studio lab. You've got a great mission and very cool and very relevant. And someone do. Thank you very much for sharing the insights on HP's role in that. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay, this is the Cube. Virtual covering HP Discover virtual experience. I'm John Furrow, your host of the Cube. Stay tuned for more coverage from HP Discover experience after this break. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

From around the globe. It's theCUBE covering HPE's Discover Virtual Experience. Brought to you by HPE. >> Hello and welcome back to the CUBE's coverage of HPE discover Virtual Experience. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, your host, we're here in the Palo Alto Studio for the remote interviews. We have a great innovation story here with Disney and HPE, Alice Taylor, Vice President of Content Innovation with studioLAB at Disney. And Soumyendu Sarkar, distinguished technologist director of AI at HPE. Thanks for coming on Alice. Samandiyu thank you for taking the time. >> No worries. Great to be here. Hi. >> Hi >> I love this story. I think it's an innovation story and I think it's going to be one that we'll experience in our life going forward, and that is media, video, and its experiences and these innovation about AI, It's a lot to do with the collaboration between Disney studioLAB, Alice, that you're running, and it's super, super important and fun as well and very relevant and Cool. So first before we get started, Alice, take a minute to explain a little about yourself and how StudioLAB came about. >> Oh my goodness. StudioLAB is just in its second year of operation. It was an idea that was had by our CTO. I'm going to say three years ago, And at the time, just previously before that, I had a startup company that came through the Disney accelerator. So I was already inside the building and the team there said well, the CTO there, and the boss said, you know, we need to start up an innovation lab that will investigate storytelling through emerging technology. And that's basically being the majority of my background. So I said, yes. And then since then we've been growing a team. We opened the lab in may of 2018 and here we are, in the middle of a pandemic, but it has grown like crazy. It's just a wonderful place to be and to operate. And we've been doing some amazing projects with some amazing partners, >> And it's not unusual that an entrepreneur has this kind of role to think outside the box. We'll get at some of that. Talk about your experience as an entrepreneur, how you got into this position, because you came in as an entrepreneur, you're doing some creative things. Tell us that story real quick. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, so as you can tell, I'm British. My actual background started, my whole career started in technology in the mid 90s. As I started as a trainee video editor, but then switched very quickly in 95 to building websites and from there on, and it was internet all the way. But I've always focused on storytelling and I, you know, much of my background is working for broadcasters and media and content creators. So I was five years at the BBC in their R and D department. And I'm actually out here as VP of digital media for them, and then Channel 4 as well. And throughout the whole process, I was always interested in how to tell stories with new technology and the new mediums as they emerged. So yeah, slight side story and doing a startup, which was actually in toys and video games, but again, big digital storytelling environments for children. And then I came round Robin, if you like into Disney and here we are still looking at how to make films and episodic content, even more, you name it faster, better, more exciting, using the best and greatest in emerging tech as we find it. >> The lab that you're doing, it's an accelerant almost for new technologies. Your job is to what? look out over the horizon next 10 years or so to figure out? >> Yeah >> what's next. It's not a structured thing. You have some reign to be creative and experiment? >> Well, yeah, I mean, the studioLAB, at the studios, well, Disney has eight studios at the moment, And what we do is we look at actually the whole breadth of storytelling. So right from the moment when a creative has an idea through to how our guests and fans might be receiving the end product out in the world, and we segregate that whole breadth into three categories; Ideate, when, you know, the process of generating the idea and building it, Make, how we make it, where we make it, what we make it with and then Experience. How we experience it out in the world. So we have a whole slew of projects, the studio level works with some of the best technology companies in the world. And we call those our innovation partners and we sign these partnerships really to bring what we like to call Superpowers to the system. We like to think that the combination of those companies and what comes out of these projects is going to give our filmmakers superpowers, but also that combinatorial effect of Disney, you know, in this case, for instance, working with HPE, like producing something that Disney couldn't necessarily do on its own or the HBE couldn't necessarily do on his own either. So yeah, it's a huge remit and we don't look quite so far out, generally speaking as 10 years, it's more like three to now. We don't do day to day operational work, but we try to pick something up a couple of years before it's going to be operationally ready and really investigate it then and get a bit of a headstart. >> Well, it's great to have HPE as partner and having that bench of technology, software, and people, and it's just a nice power source for you as well. >> Exactly So Soumyendu talk about HPE relationship with Disney, because you got a lot of deep technical from the lab standpoint to resilient technology. How are you involved? What's your role, you guys sitting around you riffing and put a whiteboard together and say, Hey, we're going to solve these big problems? ... Here's the future of consumption, here's the future of video... What goes on? Tell us the relationship between you guys. >> Yeah, it's a good question. At HPE We can not only make the servers, but what we also do is we work quite a lot on optimizing some of the Artificial Intelligence solutions and algorithms on the GPUs and scale it across Servers. So this opportunity came up from Disney where Disney came up with a very innovative solution where they were solving the video quality problem. As you know, there are a lot of blemishes in the Video that can come up and Disney wanted to fix all of them. And they came up with great algorithm, but what happens is, like with great algorithm comes a huge amount of computational complexity which needs quite a bit of heterogeneous input in both in Parallel Processing and in Sequential Processing. So we thought that it's a perfect, I'd say combination of two skillsets to make this video quality software execute at speeds which are needed for production in Disney. >> So it's good to have a data center whenever you need it to, you guys have some great technology. We'll hear a lot more from the Execs at HPE. On our reporting Alice, we want to to get your thoughts. We're covering some of those new edge technologies, we're talking about new experiences. I gave a talk at Sundance a few years ago called the new creative class, and it's really about this next wave of art and filmmakers who are using the tools of the trade, which is a cellphone, you know, really easy to set up a studios and use the technology. Can you give us some examples of how the studioLAB collaborates with filmmakers and the Execs to push the art and technology of storytelling to be fresh, Because the sign of the times, are Instagram and Tik Tok, this is just very elementary, the quality and the storytelling is pretty basic dopamine driven, but you can almost imagine that the range of quality that's going to come, so access to more people, certainly more equipment and cameras, et cetera. What's next? How do you guys see And what some examples can you share? >> Oh, that's an amazing question. I mean, where working on Films and Episodics rather than very short form content , Obviously. But you're absolutely right. There's a lot of consumer grade technology that is entering the production pipeline in many ways and in many areas, whether it's phones or iPads, using certain bits of software. One of the things that we're building at the moment is the ability to generate photometrical models, capturing with consumer drones or even iPhones, and then getting that data into a 3-D model as soon as possible. There's a really big theme of what we want to do. It's like make the process more efficient so that our creatives and the folks working on productions, aren't having to slog through something that's and tedious. They want to get to the storytelling and the art and the act of storytelling as much as possible. And so waiting for a model to render or waiting for the QC process to finish is what we want to kind of get rid of. So they can really get to the meat of the problem much, much faster. And just going back to what Soumyendu was saying about the AI project here, I mean, it was about finding the dead pixels on the screen when we do all finished prints, which would you believe we do with humans? Humans are the best, or historically have been the best at finding dead pixels, but what a job to have to do at the end of the process. To go through quality control and then have to go and manually find the little dead pixels in each frame of our print, right? Nobody actually wants to be doing that job. So the algorithm goes and looks for those automatically. And then HPE came in and sped that whole process up by 9X. So now it actually runs fast enough to be used on our final prints. >> You know, it's interesting in the tech trend for the past 10, 15 years that I've been covering cloud technology even in the early days, it was kind of on the fringe and then become mainstream. But all the trends were more agility, faster, take away that heavy lifting so that the focus on the job at hand, whether its creative or writing software. This is kind of a a success formula, and you're kind of applying it to film and creation, which is still, like software, it's kind of the same thing almost. >> Yeah >> So you know, when you see these new technologies, I'd love to get both of your reactions to this. One of the big misses, that people kind of miss is the best stuff is often misunderstood until it's understood. >> Yes >> And we're kind of seeing that now with Covid and everyone's like no way I could've seen this. No, no one predicted it. So what's an example of something that people might be misunderstanding. That's super relevant, that might become super important very quickly. Any thoughts? >> Gosh, that's a great one. Well, I can give an example of something that has come and gone and then come and potentially gone, except it hasn't. You'll see. It's VR. So it came whenever it was, 20 years ago and then 10 years ago, and everybody was saying VR is going to change the world. And then it reappeared again, six years ago. And again, everybody said it was going to change the world. And in terms of film production, it really has. But that's slightly gone unnoticed. I think, because out in the market, everyone is expecting VR to have been a huge consumer success. And I suspect it still will be one day a huge consumer success. But meanwhile, in the background, We are using VR on a daily basis in film production, Virtual production is one of the biggest emerging processes that is happening. If you've seen anything to do with Jungle Book, Lion King , the Mandalorian, anything that industrial light and magic work on, you're really looking at a lot of virtual production techniques that have ended up on the screen. And it is now a technology that we can't do without. I'm going to have to think two seconds for something that's emerging. AI and ML is a huge area. Obviously, we're scratching it. I don't think anyone is going to to say that it's going to come and go this one. This is huge, but we're already just beginning to see where and how we can apply AI and ML. >> Yeah. >> So Soumyendu, did you want to jump in on that one? >> Yeah, Let me take it from the technology standpoint. I think Alice sort of puts out some very cool trends. Now what happens in tHE AI and ML spaces, people can come up with creative ideas, but one of the biggest challenges is how do you take those ideas for commercial usage and make it work at a speed, as Alice was mentioning, makes it feasible in production. So accelerating AI/ML and making it in a form, which is usable is super important. And the other aspect of it is, just see, for instance, video quality, that Alice was mentioning. Dead pixel is one type, And I know that Disney is working on certain other video qualities to fix the blemishes, but there is a whole variety of these blemishes and with human operators, Its kind of impossible to scale up the production and to find all these different artifacts, and especially now, as you can see, the video is disseminated in your phones, in your iPads. Like, you know, in just streaming. So this is a problem of scale and to solve this is also like, you know, a lot of computers, and I'd say a lot of collaboration with complementary skillsets that make AI real. >> I was talking with a friend who was an early Apple employee. He's now retired, good friend. And we were talking about, you know, all the dev apps, agile, go fast, scale up. And he made a comment. I want to get your reaction to it. He said, "you know, what we're missing is craft." And software used to be a craft game. So when you have speed, you lose craft. And we see that certainly with cloud and agility and then iterate, and then you get to a good product over time. But I think one of the things that's interesting and you guys are kind of teasing out is you can kind of get craft with the help from some of these technologies, where, you can kind of build crafting into it. >> Yap Alice, what's your reaction to that? >> One of our favorite anecdotes from the lion King is, so Jon Favreau the director, built out the virtual production system with his team to make the film. And it allowed for a smaller production team acting on a smaller footprint. What they didn't do was shorten the time to make the film, what the whole system enabled was more content created within that same amount of time. So effectively Jon had more tapes and more material to make his final film with. And that's what we want people to have. We want them to not ever to have to say, Oh, I missed my perfect shot because of, I don't know what, you know, we ran out of time, so we couldn't get the perfect shot. That's it, that's a terrible thing. We never want that to happen. So where technology can help gather as much material as possible in the most efficient way, basically at the end of the day for our our creatives, that means more ability to tell a story. >> So Soumyendu, this is an example of the pixel innovation, the video QC, it's really a burden if you have to go get it and chase it, you can automate that. That's back to some of the tech trends. A lot of automation action in there. >> Yeah, absolutely. And as Alice was mentioning, if you can bridge the gap between imagination and realization then you have solved the problem. That way, the people who are creative can think and implement something in a very short time. And that's fair, like, you know, some of these scientists come in >> Well, I also very impressed and I'm looking forward to coming down and visiting studio labs when the world gets back to work, >> Alright. >> You guys are in the part of Burbank and all the action. I know you're a little sort of incubate. It's really kind of R and D meet commercially. Commercial is really cool. But I have to ask you what the COVID-19 going on, how are you guys handling the situation? Certainly impacted people coming to work. >> Yeah >> How has your team in been impacted and how are you guys continuing the mission? >> Well, the lab itself is obviously a physical place on the lot. It's in the old animation building. But there's also this program of innovation that we have with our partners. To be honest, we didn't slow down at all the team carried on the next day from home. And in fact, we have expanded even, because new projects came rolling in as folks who were stuck at home suddenly had needs. So we had editors needing to work remotely, you name it, folks with bad home connections, wondering if we had some 5G phones hanging around, that kind of thing. And so everything really expanded a bit. We are hoping to get back into physical co-location as soon as possible, not least to be able to shoot movies again. But I think that there will be an element of this remote working that's baked in forever from here on then. Not least, coz it was just a round, this kind of, what this has done is accelerated things like the beginning of cloud adoption properly, in the beginning of remote teleworking and remote telepresence, and then also ideas coming out of that. So you know, again, the other day I heard Holograms coming up, like, can we have holograms yet? >> Yeah, we can do that, we've done that, Lets do it. Bring that back. >> And so it's that kind of thing. Exactly, that's going to come around again. Yeah. But you know what? The team have all been amazing. But we'll miss each other, you know, there's something about real life that can't be replaced by technology. >> Well, You know, we were talking earlier on theCUBE last week about, the future got pulled to the present, not the present accelerated the future. Which exposes some of these things that are really important and you mentioned it. So I have to ask you Alice, as you guys got more work, obviously it makes sense. What have you learnt as adapting and leading your team through this change? Any learnings you can share with folks? >> Well, yes, that's a good one. But mainly resilience. It's been a nonstop and quite relentless and the news out there is extraordinary. So we're also trying to balance a very full pipeline of work with understanding that people are struggling to balance their lives as well at home, You know, kids, pets, BLM, like you name it, everything is affecting everybody. So resilience and empathy is really top of my mind at the moment as we try to continue to succeed, but making sure that everybody stays healthy and sane. >> Yeah. And in great news, you got a partner here with HPE, the innovation doesn't stop there. You still have to partner. How do you keep up with these technologies and the importance of partners, comments, and Soumyendu your comment as well. >> Yeah. So HPE has been a great leader in accommodating all HPE employees to work from remote and in the process, what we also discovered is, we humans are innovative. So we discover the innovative ways where we can still work together. So we increased the volume of our virtual collaborations, and I have worked with Erica from Disney, who is a tremendous facilitator and a technologist of mine, to have this close collaboration going, and we almost missed nothing. But yes, we would like to, you know the feel each other to be in close proximity, look at each other's eyes. Probably that's the only missing thing, a crest of it, You know, we created an environment where we can collaborate and work pretty well. And to Alice's point in the process, we also discovered a lot of things which can be done in remote considering the community of Silicon Valley. >> You know, I'd love. The final question I want to get your thoughts on is your favorite technologies that you're excited about. But some Soumyendu, you know, we were talking amongst us nerds and geeks here in Silicon Valley around, you know, what Virtualization... Server Virtualization has done. And HPE knows a lot about server virtualization. You're in the server business, that created cloud, because with virtualization, you could create one server and great many servers, but I think this COVID-19 and the future beyond it, virtualization of life, an immersion of digital is going to bring and change a lot of things. You guys highlighted a few of them. This virtualization of life, society, experiences, play, work. It's not just work it's experiences. So Internet of Things, devices, how I'm consuming, how I'm producing, it's really going to have an impact. I'd love to get your, both of your thoughts on this kind of "virtualization of life" because it certainly impacts studioLAB, because you think about these things, Alice, and HP has to invent the tech to get scaling up. So final question. What do you think about virtualization of life and what technologies do you see that you're excited about to help make our lives better? >> Wow. Goodness, me. I think we're only beginning to understand the impact that things like video conferencing has on folks. You know, I don't know whether you've seen all of the articles flying around about how it's a lot more work to do, video conferencing, that you don't have the same subtle cue as you have in real life. And again, you know, virtual technologies like VR and similar, are not going to solve that immediately. So what will have to happen is that humans themselves will adapt to the systems. I think though, fundamentally we're about to enter a radical period. We basically have already a radical period of innovation because as folks understand what's at their fingertips and then what's missing, we're going to see all sorts of startups and new ideas come rushing out. As people understand this new paradigm and what they can do to solve, for the new pains that come out of it. I mean, just from my perspective, I have back-to-back nine hours of etc a day. And by the end of the day, I can barely walk. What are we going to do about that? I think we're going to see, >> Holograms, I like that Idea. >> right, we're going to see home exercise equipment combined with like, you know, really good ones. Like you've seen pellets on the shares going crazy. There's going to be tons of that. So I'm just really excited at the kind of three years or so. I think that we're going to see of radical innovation, the likes of which we have always usually been held back by other reasons, maybe not enough money or not enough permission. Whereas now people are like, we have to fix this problem. >> Well, you got a great job. I want to come, just quit my job and come join studio lab, sounds like that's a playground of fun. They have great stuff. >> Ton of fun. >> Soumyendu, close this out here. What are you excited about as we virtualize. You're in the labs, creating new technology, you're a distinguished technologist and director of AI. I Wean, you're on the cutting edge. You're riding the wave too. What's your take on this virtual center? >> I think, you know the COVID experience, what it has done is it has pushed the edge to the home. So now, if you really see a home is one of the principle connectivity to the outside world, as far as professionalism goes. And with that, what AI also offers is like a better experience. Right now we are all Gaga about zoom being able to do a video conferencing, but as Alice was pointing out, there is that ER, and the VR. Now consider combining the augmented reality. And the way that we do review a conference and all the other AI innovations that we can bring in so that the interactions becomes much more real. And that is like, you know, I'd say, where the world is moving. >> I can't let this go. I have to go one more step in because you guys brought that up. Alice, you mentioned the fatigue and all these things. And if you think about just the younger generations, we have to invest in our communities and our young people. I mean, think about all the kids who have to go back to school in September, in the fall, what their world's like. And you talk about, you know, we can handle video, but learners? So the transformation that's going to come down the path really fast is how do you create an experience for education and for learning and connecting. This is huge. Thoughts and reactions to that. So it's something that I've been thinking a lot about, but I'm sure a lot of other parents have as well. >> My take on that, kids, I've worked a lot with kids and kids media. And over the years, you often find that when a new media does come in, there's a lot of fear around it, but kids are plastic and incredibly good at adapting to new media and new technology and new ways of working. The other thing is, I think this generation of kids have really had to live through something, you know, and it's going to have, with luck, taught them some resilience. I think, if there's one thing that teachers can be focusing on, it is things like resilience and how to cope under very unusual and very unpredictable circumstances, which is never good for things like anxiety. But it's also the reality of the world, you know, be adaptive and learn, keep learning. These are great messages to give to kids. I think if anything, they are the ones who'll figure out how to socialize online successfully and healthily. So we're going to have to learn from them. >> Yeah. They're going to want to make it to be fun too. I mean, you have to make it entertaining. I mean, I find my personal experience, if it's boring, it ain't going to work. Thank you so much, Alice. Well, thank you very much for that comment and insight really enjoy. Congratulations on studioLAB, you got a great mission and very cool and very relevant. Soumyendu thank you very much for sharing the insights on HPE's role in that. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. >> Thanks. It's nice. >> Okay. >> Thanks John. >> This is theCUBE virtual covering HPE Discover Virtual Experience. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Stay tuned for more coverage from HPE Discover Virtual Experience after this break.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by extension for interactive. >> Hey, welcome back it when Cube live coverage here in Las Vegas are doubly. Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Murray with Jeffrey, my coz this week. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Our next guest is Glenn Hartman. North America lied for a censure Interactive. Thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. Great beer. So you guys are doing some great stuff around the creativity, peace, doing great customer experience. Implement taste. We have a great walk through from a lot of the folks from your organization. You're designing up ideas and products, delivering them and then operating them. Nice model. Yeah, thanks. Is that your business model that has network, What century? Interactives business model. I mean center and >> really about one thing. It's about creating, delivering and running the best experiences on the planet. We help our clients do that for their own customers. And when >> we talk about experience, a lot of people have different definitions for that, especially at the conference here. It's not necessarily an experience of a website or a mobile app or u X is people use it. It's really anyway, a brand engages with a customer. It's not just marketing. Either it could be sales or customer service loyalty. Anything anyway. A brand promise can be delivered. Teo to customers. One of things that I've noticed with you guys is that it's a talk track and thought leaders around a new creative and new creativity. And Toby honestly with software that they haven't now the cloud you're seeing in the marketplace. We saw this at Sundance two years ago. A new kind of creative is, um, organically coming into the marketplace with more channels to direct to consumer, whether it be to be or be to see you and now have new kinds of mechanisms to take product, whether it's APS or content or movies, You start to see this democratization really starting to happen. How is that changing? How you guys helped us is because now they now have new capability. They can tell their story in a different way. They have access to new kinds of channels that weren't there before. How is that changing the business, in your opinion, die in a profound way? So I mean, everybody knows that marking is inextricably linked >> to technology and data. Everybody knows that. But when >> we are thinking about the new, creative and own ways that you can tell stories and create experiences. We look at experience very differently. I mentioned before that it was all about all the different touch points in the ways people interact with the brand. But when we look at experience, we call it the Big E. And the biggie actually stands for empathy. And it's understanding how to define what a brand experience means to that customer and defining success in terms of that customer. And you know, Jeff and John, you guys air not to find by your data set or what you bought last week. You could be very different types of people in different situations and understanding ways to empathize with you in the moment and having experiences change in the moment and having creative play, a part of that and data play. A part of that is the big hot. It's a new way of looking at things, and the last part of that, too. And the big is about emotion. So when you have a big brand that has some emotional connection, you know you love this brand for an automotive or you love this hotel chain or there's some brand a connection you have. How do you have that connection flow through every touch? Point and data and technology can enable that. But it's really empathy and emotion. That's the driver. How do you get empathy and creativity to work together? Because you now have an accelerant with data you mentioned getting to know people's empathizing with them in the moment it's contextual. I could be having a great day or a bad day or driving my kids to school of whatever's going on with me. It certainly there might be some data out. How do you get the creativity and the empathy to work together in your mind? You see that appointment? That's the nice parties. More than ever, we have different data sets that can help us do that. Just give you a couple of examples. Um, instead of understanding how to market >> to someone so they'LL buy the next product on basing. That may be on their demographic, maybe basing it on their preferences. You've hear all these terms and marketing for years, and you can understand what they bought. >> Instead of understanding that, why don't we try and look and use data which you could easily do today to understand why they bought something so it could be something as simple as like a I don't know, Cpg example. Maybe have shampoo and you could say, Well, they bought these kinds of things before, So maybe they'LL buy that champion. But if they know that, you know, maybe Jeff is equal friendly are John. Maybe you're more into things that maybe you buy that shampoo because you care about animals and they know they don't test them on animals. Or maybe it's something more about experience that that particular shampoo won't make your daughter cry when you ship your her hair. And it helps that experience that that's the reason why it actually helps me. You're empathizing in the moment with something that is meaningful that you care >> about. It's not about a better deal or >> better price or some kind of feature. It's something actually about you more meaningful, much very meaningful interaction. Data set is that because there's no data before, is it more? There's more signals, potentially to get exposed to that, because that's a hard data points to get. I mean, to find the why is a holistic kind of perspective. It's true, but I mean, I think it's more of a mind set. The date is there, but the mind set has been different. Over time, people were looking to technology every buzz word in the world use big data and personalization. Aye, aye. And then now it's a I and machine learning and like, Well, that's great. And they're all wonderful enablers, as I said, but it has to be driven by empathy first. So it all starts. >> I mean, we've been saying this forever customer, centrist city and a customer >> concerts. But really, I mean, for real. If you start to use those data sets, aunt have the mindset has to be a c M. O. R. A brand manager is someone who actually it's advocating for the customer, and they're willing to say, No, I don't need big data. I don't need all the data. I need this gold nugget part so I can speak to John. >> It's interesting plate, as you say, the emotional part of the biggie. Also, I think it is the old Coke commercial, right raw one world together, and we all cry and there's some great McDonald's commercials, right when you talk about you think beyond that to the to the empathy. I can't help but think of kind of the whole purpose. Purpose driven, mission driven companies. You know, kids coming out of college want to work for mission driven, cos we heard it over and over. And the key notes, you know, we're not a product company, not even really a service company. But we're committed to two, an ideal to the mission. Beep. Be partners with us, be our customer. Let's have a relationship that goes so much deeper and longer than any particular transaction is that kind of that tied it, that that is a part of it? >> Absolutely. Now, the interesting thing of what you said is that people are >> tied to a purpose and maybe something that's meaningful in a broad sense, absolutely. And that's a wonderful place to start. And you can start to align products and services in that way, >> the way he talked about, like, shampoo and, you know, animal testing, right? Well, >> it's a good one, but the next one is really getting a little bit Mohr down to you. So I think all that is great, but really understand what you need in the moment, because what happens is it. Some of those things may change if you are shopping at a grocery store every >> Saturday for your family and you're used to doing down your attitude. There might be different then when >> you're shopping, when your kid is sick and you got pulled out of work and you got to get there to get the prescription, you're into speed and your stress in the moment they're versus. Maybe >> on Saturday you're like all try some new coupons and try some new things and go by. The little tasting >> station is actually behaviors that you want to understand in the moment. That is a big part of that as well. But the key thing to hear is, let's think of this when you deal with empathy. It's not just getting to know all those things. Even if it gets to that level, it's actually changing the way marketers think about talking to communicating and relating to customers even the language that they use. I mean, think of it >> today. I mean, >> still, people use marketers are their marketing to people. It's, uh, that's acquire customers. Let's convert wind developers over good. We don't win their helpers over. And what was the last time you guys were real excited about getting converted? Okay, it's not a fun experience, right? So if you even changed, I might send you say, Let's market with someone or let's let's help them. You actually create experiences that are useful and helpful not about conversion and not a business metric. But success is defined by the customer. How are you guys playing this? Because this is really kind of ties on multiple threads. I mean, the whole nother community angle to people belong to communities in context to their life. And they engage. And when they engage his emotional connection to a group of this and some cohorts is the worker. Thank you. Okay, groups. But they're friends and colleagues, or whatever could be you guys were. The point is, with customers, take us through a use case day in the life of empathy, deployed into how you guys do business with the big Branson and one of the success. How do you make it happen? What's the engagement look like? How does someone do this? So they just wake up one morning, say Okay, I'm gonna have more empathy. They also call you guys up. What happens? Like what? Take us through What? Certain evidence was made in the slide. I could give you >> a little bit of it. An example of how stars we've been talking a little bit more dramatically about sick kids and testing on pets and animals and things like that. Not testing the pets. Can you imagine? I'd really be >> horrible. But single graphic of the users individual personal things is hard, right? So? Well, I mean, the whole point of this is that when you really get into the mechanics of how this works, I'll give you an >> example. It's a little bit less dramatic. OK, so it's a telecommunications company. Telco company. That's selling. You guys know what? Triple play? Yeah. Okay, So you have It's >> a cable and a phone, right? All it's it's like a commodity product writers. There's no emotional thing necessarily. But in that game, if you can just optimize certain parts of the journey, you can make a big difference, right so way got a benign request from a marketer. Teo say, Listen, we do a lot of paid search. Can you help us with this one product? Just if you move it even like one percent, it would be significant to the company. But when? So okay, we'LL do that, >> and it worked out. We go in and help them do their >> search. But because we're thinking about experience in a broader sense for so well, let's let's do it more. Let's make them be able to transact or engage in multiple ways. Well, you could. You could sign up for the service to email. Or maybe there's click to call or click to chat. Or you could even walk into a branch and do it there. Maybe through the call centre, right? It's what's all that's working together on the channel, though fun words you want easy. You're leveraging >> different technologies to do it and people, >> so the way this worked was you were coming in through search and then eventually a lot of them were converting in the call center. So it was all working. And you think that's great? Well, it wasn't great to the company at all. They were very upset. The people that we're buying the media, we're really bummed because they couldn't get the attribution of the credit for the thing was in the call center. So they came over the great idea. They said, OK, take the phone number off and take the the click to call off and will force the >> customer to convert in. Our channel, of >> course, is a brilliant company with great people and rational thinking prevailed and they didn't do that. But they said, Well, what do we do? I said, Well, you're going to eat and multi attribution model to be able to help you do that, Okay, but that's not enough because you also need a new sales incentive and commission structure inside the call center because those people are getting pit on that. But since it's such a low commodity product, that's not gonna work to change. That's that's a new sales kind of thing, then you wait. They can't talk for another three seconds to that person because you'LL bring the margins on. You got to get him back. All the turtleneck just screwed up. That's right. So there's a new business process is now a new operating model whose skills to get him back into the general. So all of a sudden it's benign. Request from a marketing team taken, you optimize my paint search becomes new business transformation. Okay, now, because that brand manager had the guts to say I'm going to advocate for this customer. This customer wants to come in through this channel. They want to convert over here, and we're gonna actually change the operating model, the sales structure to call the sales lead. I had to call the CFO on the CEO, and we're gonna make this happen, Gonna change the way we do business on behalf of that customer. That is weight world, I could tell you we see this all the time and marketers all the time that there's so married to their website analytics funnel that that's all about who gets credit coded earls and the customer experience is a brutal. It's like I'm not here on other sites are all over the place. I don't really need to go the site every day, right? Somebody only go there when Otto and the thing we were talking about before. If you're grocery shopping >> and Europe's have set on Tuesday and you want to get off >> for your kid at versus the nice leisurely thing we talked about on the weekend, there's a whole nother set of outcomes in Cape Yas you have to deal with. If you went into that supermarket on Tuesday and they figured out a way to get you in and out fast and just get those two or three autumns, you need it for your kid. That's a failed trip. According to the grocery industry. You need to be in there longer they want, so you stay in the back. That's right. Totally. That breaks the whole model, but it's wonderful for you. You'LL shop there forever because of that experience, what you're getting at the Morrises air, changing the business models of cos that's the bottom line. You're at the center. That could be a driver for the transformation. That's it. Empathy. Is the driver Absolutely no. You need to have the emotional connection to all that stuff to help also internally see emos. I don't need to just be relevant and customers that need to be relevant to the enterprise. They need to be relevant to the CEO, Doc in seconds and hear the screaming and kicking and screaming right now. Glenn, that's great. But man, that's a heavy lift way could do it. How do you How do you get it? Because now I can see a cultural reaction. The antibodies will come out and attack that notion because it's scary because now, like, whoa, yeah, well, I mean, it is hard, but the good news is, is that we see, even at this conference, and a lot of our clients are coming over to do that this incremental ways to get there. But I'll make it simple. So the advantages are we said this new technology, new data that allow you to do some of this stuff right? That's great. And you can see a lot of them consolidating, right? A lot of the stacks all now have content and analytics and commerce and all that, and in this nice ways that they come together and that consolidation can help, and there's other ones that can handle different data sets, and that helps to his automation. And but the thing is that what people miss is one of the ways to accelerate this is add a human centered approach to how you actually create the experience internally. And what I mean is, it's not enough to consolidate the data and figure out that Gold nugget and not enough to do with technology have to do with humans. It's a human centered approach, so we're bringing in integrated teams of humans that are pulling all the stuff together. It's someone who understands strategy. Maybe someone understands creative when it hit me in the club, basically their prime in the pump getting it. But they will sit together. They sent to get the analytics. People sit next to the creative people. It's in next you people. They work on it as they designed the experience. You don't do a strategy project and then do a A road map and then do an R P for technology enabled Waterfall does not work, but it's beyond even waterfall versus algebra. This is actually taking humans and consolidate that thinking New skill sets at the center in like an incubator way to do pilots to do prototyping to do things. If you want to create that new experience that we're talking about in any of these cases, you gotta hand CMO some kind of thing that can bring to the team and say, Look, here's an app that would enable this or he has a pilot We could try without boiling the ocean toe, actually create an experience that would move the needle or whatever. Lame corporate analogy. Just make more money and get some decent results in Get a beachhead, just small eatery through it. Glenn. Great Insights. This is a great time. We'd love to get you back on the Cuban girl down, and it's kind of design thinking, combined with execution on the front lines with customers. Center the value proposition. Great conversation before we and just give a quick plug for the business. What's going on with a sensor Interactive? How's the business going? What are your goals? How many people are working there? What's the geography is looked like? Give us enough. Thanks for asking So essential Interactive is enjoying its third year as being listed by at H magazine, is the largest digital agency in the world on the fastest growing Wei have coverage and a truly integrated global delivery model that hits every part of the of every market. And we're so excited. Tio have this growth because it's a way to show that the market is truly interested and being experienced lead and the way we're defining experience. We're seeing more and more clients moving from some of these incremental changes to really >> try to put the customer at the center of what they're doing. And, you know, X Ensure Interactive believes in this model it is. It's very much in some ways way. Call it a new kind of provider, like an experience agency for lack of a better term. TTO help companies drive that transformation, and it's >> done with people and technology, and we're been on a tear recently. Most are growth is organic, but we also do lots and lots of acquisitions to make these capabilities come together. All the creativity and the design and the strategy and the techniques and the run of it is all in one integrated team, and that is very, very helpful when you're trying to do some of the things we've been talking about and you're you guys. I think I'm the right way. This customer wave is really, really because with digital customers air in charge, they control their data. They're now going to shift is happening. We're starting to see some visibility into it. It was going to impact the economics process and business models, so I think it's just beginning. Congratulations really is thanks. And we're so excited because some of the >> client successes it's truly transformational somethings. You got it. Carnival or Marriott or or Subway. I >> mean, it's a whole different >> kind of way of looking at experience, and it's >> really helping people. It's not just for its good for the business, but we're really changing people's lives and helping have experiences be meaningful. It's been wonderful and fun for us. Glenn, Thanks so much for sharing this insights here in the Cube. Hey, thanks for going the data Here live adobe summat. Twenty nineteen, Jumper, jefe Rick, Stay tuned for more coverage after this short break

>> Live from San Francisco it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE, live in San Francisco. Google Cloud Next '18. My co-host Jeff Frick and I are here with Suhail Dutta, VP of Cloud Services for Unity Technologies. Some of those popular game engines, developers of VR AR and mobile gaming, as well as game developers. A hot used case for Google Cloud. They love the speed. They love the features. We hearing that all, wait welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, thanks for having me. >> So I wish I was a kid again because the game experience now is so good and I'm kind of like a keyboard guy. So I'm not a good console player but now keyboard's back and now you got mobile games. I mean the games are amazing these days. >> They are, they are. They're amazing and they're amazing on every kind of platform. You could have mobile games, console games, PC games, input types, keyboards, controllers VR. It's stunning. >> I always say I've been observing the Internet. It used to be really the predictor of what's going to happen in computing and user experience really I think gaming leads a lot of it. Look at virtual currencies. Look at blockchain and crypto and virtual currencies in game for a long time. So it's a really leading indicator and certainly as you look at immersive experiences, gaming is not just gaming. It's potentially virtual reality, augmented reality around 3D is what you guys do. This is huge. >> Yeah. >> It's not just about gaming anymore. Talk about what you guys are doing. Take a minute to explain the company. Are you beyond gaming? What are some of the things you're working on. >> Yeah I think I said this at the keynote. One of the things we fundamentally believe is the world's better with more creators. So those creators for us traditionally have been in gaming but more and more we see that also happening in film. All kinds of media, animation, but also lots of industries like automotive and others. And so we more and more like to talk to ourselves as we're enabling, empowering creators to do what they love to do and we make their lives easier, and allow them to achieve what they wanted. >> It's the continuation of the democratization trend right because actually all the big hardware companies used to brag about how much time it took to render all the crazy scenes and all these beautiful big 70 millimeter movies. Everybody can't afford that horsepower, doesn't have the time, so with with engines like what you guys have you know you've been able to spread that developer ecosystem out, the creator ecosystem out dramatically to allow so much more points of view and people to contribute and to create all these cool new things. >> Yeah you know I think Diane actually said this on stage at the Unite event. Our founders may have coined democratized development and 15 years ago, we've always believed that to be true. We've been for the community every size of team for as long as we've been around, and it remains the first principle we use in our mission. We do solve our problems. We do enable our creators success but democratized development is core to everything we do, and we've been (mumbles). >> The younger generation is gravitating towards games. Obviously it's a gateway drug to software development if you think about it. Robotics is another one. You're seeing these maker culture kind of things really attracting developers at a whole another level. It's not computer science, software engineering degree, banging out raw machine language. This is like for fun. There's a whole new artistry going on. >> There is yeah. >> What is your view on this new trend around software artistry because there's engineering certainly involved. The engines are getting smarter. Distraction layers are becoming available. What's your take on that? >> Yeah I think the engineering side of it has always been about raising that level of abstraction so that people can focus on what they love to do. So if you're a game maker you probably got into making games because you love games and you love making them. You probably didn't get into it to make an engine. So that's always been very true for us, and we've gotten better at that. But some of the things we've learned along the way of course to your point are, the various kinds of artists that are actually just as or more critical through these kinds of creative endeavors, and we've actually been making great strides in not only helping artists of all kinds work themselves in Unity, or in other tools, but also then work seamlessly with engineers, which oftentimes ends up being a place where there is friction, but in an environment like Unity, you can't have a lot of separation right? We have a 3D environment. You put this on your computer, you work in it, you build your models, you write your scripts, you write all of that in one cohesive way, because otherwise games take way longer to build. They have all kinds of issues and communication. I think it's quite key for us. >> So I always love to watch the game threads on Reddit, EA and these guys, the corporate's taken over. You're seeing more younger artists coming in. You guys have to maintain your relevance to keep those developers happy. You got to continue to innovate. Gaming is a lot of pressure. >> Yes. >> How do you guys keep up? What are some of the things you're doing with tech? What do you bring into the market? How do you keep ratcheting up the capability so that they don't flock somewhere else or apparently so they can create better products. >> Right, I think probably the highest level principle there is leading on from democratized, but we focus a lot on our community of creators. Both in terms of the content, the samples, the learning, the tools, something Google does quite well actually. And that's been instrumental in empowering this community. That's very strong. I mean it is in many ways our greatest strength. We have a huge number of developers and artists and creators that work with Unity. So if you were to want to create something, and you were looking for answers, using our services or others, you can go out there. Now on the technology side, the way we look at it is in many ways we've looked at it as your engine team. So performance by default some of the things that we're doing to make really, really high performance, efficient computing, on all kinds of devices, letting you do more with them, but then also there's a responsible aspect which is if you think about improving the performance and power consumption on devices, is very important to us. And then an area where we're really putting in a lot of effort now is the cloud and with Google on connected games, which is why-- >> So let's talk about that because we're here and it's interesting the creator conversation because obviously Google owns YouTube, which has spawned a whole different kind of class of creators that are disrupting the media business. So you're here kind of what does Google give to you guys? Why are you partnering with them? What's kind of the story? >> Of course. So we talk about connected games right? So what we mean by that of course are games where players can connect to each other and or to the developers that create them. Oftentimes, we use the term multiplayer, which of course is a particular sub-genre of connected games. They run the gamut from a game that you might play on your phone and then you interact with other players through leaderboards and chat and things like that. So they're connected not necessarily real-time multiplayer and on the other side of the spectrum you might have a game where you run around and interact with each other in real time in a 3D environment or a massive multiplayer game where you stay in that world for many, many, many years and you act as a character. Because Unity has so many creators, the entire spectrum of those games, connected games are important to us, important to our users. For all those games, you need massive amounts of infrastructure. You need lots of infrastructure, you need performance items, like you need the best network and you need lots of services that help you again to the earlier point focus on making your game. This is an area that both Unity and Google care deeply about. If you take a small studio or even a large studio for that matter, that got in the business to create their game, they don't want to spend all of their time learning how to make an engine or set up a bunch of infrastructure. The area where we're focusing a lot now is that marriage between Google and Unity where you can because of our alliance, we can raise that level of abstract to your earlier point and let them build connected games in an easier way. >> Talk about the role of data because obviously you look at the data that's generated. I mean which could be user gesture data, I mean everything's tracked. >> Yeah. >> I mean that's a big data solution problem opportunity you guys have. >> Yeah and I think so one of the things we like to say of course is you know we're a platform. We enable our users to build and run successful games and our users being the developers and artists that data's theirs, and then they are able to then do really wonderful things with that data if they so choose. So you're right, for the games that have so many players online and all these actions, there is an amazing amount of data, but fundamentally in an anonymized way around what makes games more fun. And that's a hard problem to solve. It's why our creators have the hardest problem of it all is make something fun where data can play a huge role in that. >> How is the relation with Google Cloud and your engine with those developers? Do they get the magic of Google and you pass that through or is it built into your product that's abstracted away? >> Yeah it's a combination of things, so I think there's one side, which is us building services that run on top of Google Cloud so if for instance you need a matchmaker which is a very common piece of technology, but quite complicated piece of technology, for games is to match players into games quickly. We are working with Google, we're collaborating on an open source project, that we call Open Match that comes out later this summer, and then we're building a service on top of that that our users can just pick up and use. It runs on Google Cloud. At the same time, Google brings many other capabilities to bear, things like maps and other capabilities from GCP, that they can then bring to our users in a more direct way rather than building a product together, and then of course Unity actually now runs quite a few cloud services and we're going to migrate all of those to Google Cloud as well. So it's sort of three aspects of that. >> And what's your vision for Unity? If you look for and looking at what's coming on with Google, as to the future of your engine looking at the creator market, Hollywood. Just at Sundance I did a panel with Intel on the future of entertainment, and we talked about the new artists coming in. You have the social networks now reforming this game connector concept is pretty huge. >> Yeah. >> This is a new dynamic, so you got to build new services. What's your vision of how your going to build out these cloud services? Can you share your vision and thoughts on? >> Yeah we can yeah so I think the, within the space of connected games of course like I said there's many different categories of these games, but there are some fundamental building blocks that you can build that we can build together, Google and Unity can to empower all of these kinds of games. Matchmaking is a particular example, but at the end of the day, games that blur the lines between, they're running on a device, they're running on a PC, they're running on a console or they let players pick them up wherever they go, but also interact with each other right because as AR and VR and these virtual worlds come to fruition, more and more it's going to be about us interacting not just in the virtual world but also in the real world and able to do that and most of those things are predicated on this world that exists online, and it's all running on infrastructure. There's a lot of infrastructure that's required there, so we've got a really rich roadmap over the next many, many years to continue to invest in this area and help our users create these kinds of games because they are in the games world, the most influential kind, but more and more in other areas of our life they're also going to be the same technologies that are applied there. >> I just love to get your perspective. You've been in this space for a long time gaming but also 3D specifically. Now 3D is so still nascent. It's hard to do for most people. The experiences are still being developed, but it's come so long, so as you look at kind of where 3D is evolved, both to create it as well as to experience kind of what are your general thoughts of where we are on that path and what do you see kind of in the short term and near-term in terms of how that's really going to change the way we do things, whether it's work, gaming or experiencing other types of things? >> Sure I think that I'd like to go back to one of the things you said, where when you're playing games you have to stand up. We've come a long way. (all laughing) So we have come a long way. You look at some of the content of the games that are being produced, you even look at just the kinds of content and the interactive content that's being created in Unity, it's amazing if you look at how far we've come. I think to your point you're right. There is a long way to go, there's lots of it. I mean all our hardware capabilities just continue to get better, like the latest phones, the latest consoles. They're so powerful right we have these supercomputers in our pockets with amazing capabilities and consumers demand that kind of stuff, the latest level of graphics. I think all of that stuff continues. I think our CEO, John talked about in this sort of AR and VR, we're kind of going through this level of excitement and then we have the trough of disillusionment and all these kinds of things right. We've got some elements of that but there's a lot of great companies doing a lot of fantastic stuff, and I think that that's going to come to bear, and so I think Unity is there with them and we're really well positioned. >> The tell signs are there. You're seeing people using VR in areas that give them a unique thing that's so scarce in areas where that's pharmaceuticals, doctor, I see even heard Tom Brady uses a VR to look at defenses before he plays games, but this is an interesting question for you though, I want to get your thoughts. Do you have a unique position to see the data of what your game engine is doing? For the folks out there, the young kids who are in elementary school, high school that love games. That don't necessarily want to be computer science major. Maybe they don't even have a direction of any kind but want to start hacking away and start coding. What patterns do you see that would help someone get started and so they don't drop out or abandon it, get addicted if you will, what are some of the things you could share that you've seen successful getting someone involved in either coding games, getting involved in the community. What are some of those best practices or patterns that you've seen? >> Right I mean so I think there's probably a technical answer to that and then there's a non-technical one. I think your word community resonates with me a lot. So for anyone starting out I think there's a lot that an individual creator can accomplish but given the world we're in, we have these extremely rich communities that are helping each other, whether it's the open source community in a more general sense for web or servers, but even in machine learning if you hear the guy from Cal-vil talk, they were talking about machine learning community, and it was pretty amazing to hear him talk about that. For us it's the creator community and we have a really rich one and there's lots of people there that bring many skills to bear, which ends up being way more critical than things like very specific technology trends for this kind of thing, so I think-- >> Just mentoring and stuff going on in the creator community. People are helping each other big time. >> There's a huge amount. I mean this notion of developers and creators helping each other, sometimes not for any money, is a trend being seen everywhere, not just-- >> So advice is jump into a community, get a check in... >> I think it's probably cliched a little bit, if you can find a project or a set of projects or a type of thing that you really enjoy doing, you'd be surprised at what skills you can bring to bear and everyone needs help. >> So download the emulator, get some code in your hands, jump into a community-- >> Yeah Unity is free. Download it. It's easy to get started and then work with the community. I think almost always it's find the project that you really care about and start helping. >> Final question for you to wrap up the segment. For the people that are not inside the ropes in the industry that looking at Google, see Google Cloud, wow a lot of buzz on Google Cloud, knowing what we knew two years ago, oh gee the original app engine kind of concept was Google Cloud. Now so much more. What would you say to the people watching now how has Google Cloud changed? What's different? What are they doing right and where they need to improve? >> So even before Unity I've been a user of aspects of Google Cloud and App Engine. And I think they have come an amazing way in terms of the way they're approaching every other aspect that isn't just the technology aspect. I think the tech it's Google. They've always been impeccable. >> It's great tech. Yeah great tech, yeah. >> Their network is incredible. Their server is incredible. So they've always been extremely good at that, but the things that are so much better the level of support, they're working with us very closely all across their organization. We are enjoying working with them a lot and they're really trying to help us be successful much like we help our creators, so that's resonating with us a lot, and we found that to be great and I think that you know everything I see makes us quite happy that that we are partners with them. >> And they're bringing some goodies to the party. They've bred open source contributions, pretty phenomenal. I mean Kubernetes I mean that's just game-changing right there. You got BigQuery and they got some, they're contributing some jewels. >> They have some amazing tech that can be brought to bear on a lot of different things right? So we're are a heavy Kubernetes user and have been for a while. Even before we were Google partners, so I think this is great things that they announced with GKE, this conference really mattered to us, GKE on prem, and then they're also a very partner driven company, and I think they recognize our knowledge and expertise in games and I think that that's an area where their expertise in cloud and our expertise in games can be very very great. >> I think it's a great opportunity for Google to make the market on the partnership ecosystem side. They have a lot they could bring to the table. They can make people successful and people can make money and deliver great products. That's a winning formula. >> Yeah exactly. >> - So let's see. Congratulations on your success. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for sharing the insight into Unity Technologies. It's theCUBE bringing you all the action here out in the open with Google Cloud. More coverage, stay with us. We are at day three of three days of live coverage. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. Stay with us we'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> [Announcer] From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Radio 2018, brought to you by VMware. (upbeat music) >> Hello everyone welcome back, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage here at VMware's Radio 2018, this is their seminal, big-tent event for their top engineers, smartest people come together present their reports, their projects, and come together as a community and share great content and agenda. As Steve Herrod former CTO says, this is like a sales kickoff for engineers, it's motivated and they flex their muscles, technically, stretch their minds. I'm here with Pat Gelsinger, the CEO VMware, great to see you, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Hey thank you very much, it's fun to be here at Radio. >> So this is nerd central, this is >> Absolutely, this is like geek city baby. >> Dave and I always complement you on your business acumen obviously doing great as a CEO, the numbers, business performance, world class organization, check, best place to work, one of the best places to work for, check. But you're kind of a geek at heart, you like to get down and dirty, technical, this is your event. You gettin' down with the folks? >> Yeah it's fun, I was just at our sales, we have a top sales people, our sales club, so we did it in Abu Dhabi this year, so I was just over there a couple of week ago for that so hobnobbing with the sales guys which is super important, right? Their motivation, their creme de la creme of the year, but to me this one is better, right? Just 'cause now the tech guys comin' together 'cause most companies don't do anything like this, right? So it really is a unique piece of the VMware culture where the tech guys get together and they just geek out for a couple of days and to be awarded best of Radio, it's like, oh man you're a god inside of VMware. >> It's like the Sundance Film Festival, Cannes Film Festival, the Oscars, it's a huge accomplishment and knowing people internally. >> Yeah and some of Ray's numbers this morning as he showed in the keynote, I mean it's competitive to get your paper shown here is competitive, right? So there's a set of judges that are picking the papers that are here out of this we already have over 200 invention disclosures that have come out of just the preparation for the conference and we haven't even gotten started yet, and now the keynotes this morning and poster sessions all week long, and letting the engineers just really vibrate off of each others' ideas and challenge them and all of our PEs and fellows roaming around here they're sort of like the big guys on campus, but hey the young Turks are coming up and they're challenging them on ideas it really is a delightful few days. >> I love your perspective, I wanna get your reaction 'cause one, not only do you have a storied history working at Intel, really a great innovative founders of Silicon Valley with HPs of the world, and now you're the chief of VMware a modern era's here, you talk about this all the time publicly about the business context and at the events, but it's different Google had pioneered this notion of 20% of your time you could work on side project, more of an academic culture Google has, I mean I love that it's cool, but VMware has a unique culture and I want you to talk about that dynamic because you have to be versatile now, agile more than ever, you have to be faster time to market, and it's always been hard for companies to crack the code on knocking down the big ideas, solving the hardest problems but yet making it practical at the same time. What's your reaction to how you guys are doing it, >> what's different? Share some color. >> In some ways and I think some of the panel, we had a panel session this morning, Steve did one session, but we had of the original engineers in the company, the five of the original engineers, right were here and they were saying it was sort of like we're doing research in a business who had business objectives, right? Solving problems that had never been solved before, Sort of the VMware culture is if it's not a hard problem, it's not worth it, right? And our objective isn't to be 2x or 10% better, but to be 10x better, right? And when you're doin' those kind of things you can't always put that on a schedule, right? The problem is solved when it's solved, right? And I was just meeting with one of my teams last night and this is, well alright that looked pretty good but I don't think you've met the minimum viable product yet so let's put it in an open beta for six months before we actually call it GA 'cause I don't think you're done >> solving the hard problem yet, right? >> So you're squinting through and looking at the projects from that? >> Yeah right, is it ready? And have we really delivered something that customers can say, "Yeah here's the value proposition you promised, here's what you're delivering me, it is a quality product," right? Which is something that's deep in that history of VMware right in many cases, and I love one of the statistics this morning, they said the early core dumps of ESX, right they found that over 2/3 of them were a result of memory parody errors, not of ESX failures of any sense, so meaning that the hardware was less reliable than the software was, that's all we sort of this magic that we say, we're out to produce world class infrastructure software that's better than the hardware ever could have been and for a hardware guy that's sort >> So that was your problem, originally I think it was on your watch actually the first core dump. Throwback Thursday would they do core dumps from like 10 years ago look at a simpler core, >> look at x say "Hey look at the core dump, Hey look at cool that is." (laughing) >> If I see the Biaz prompt oh my gosh where did that come from? >> Let's get some vinyl records and look at some core dumps from 1992. >> So Pat, now this is important because I think this is a killer point, when you look at innovation VMware has to meet the challenge of being on that next wave and you've said on theCUBE many times, if you're not on that next wave you're driftwood. A lot of companies who try to do R&D end up solving hard problems to attract the top talent, but they end up getting so focused on the problem they end up in a cul-de-sac on the wrong wave, they miss the next wave. >> [Pat] Yeah. >> How do you manage that? 'Cause this is your sticking point is to make sure you don't miss the next wave, you transition properly, how do you avoid that problem of getting so focused on the intoxicating aspect of solving problem and being in a cul-de-sac no market wave missed? >> Yeah and it's hard right? In that sense and I'll say there's, we sort of look at it from three different dimensions, one is, hey you gotta keep this bubbling cauldron of ideas and that's why we're here at Radio, right? Just these people working on ideas, right? You have some really cool stuff and every once in a while you're telling the engineers, "Well that's good but you haven't solved the hardest piece of that problem yet and so on." Then you have to be able to take it from that bubbling cauldron to, I'll say, an incubation product, right? 'Cause VMware yeah we do R&D, we do core research as well, but fundamentally we've been able to create markets based on our products and really scale them, right? The embarrassing truth of any enterprise software company is for every dollar of R&D you spend, you spend two dollars of sales and marketing, so we can't under invest in those products that we've picked that now are scaling into the market, we have to put the >> dedicated sales >> [John] Get the leverage >> out of it >> The SEs et cetera, that's really frightening. When I'm done innovating a new idea maybe I've dumped 10 million or 15 million into the core idea, okay, now I got to go spend twice that amount on >> Good marketing. >> Marketing of it and boy it's expensive to bring things into the enterprise and if the product isn't robust and solid and really compelling, then it might be three or four x, so you're now rewarded with your R&D investment to go spend on sales and marketing now, so yeah we've really taken and we have a very BCG matrix kind of view of how we take products from incubation into early market success and then into scale and finally cash cow and retirement and that process is one you have to be equally disciplined about. The third piece of it is you have to be able to declare failure and for failures, it's how do you harvest technologies and learning, but be able to look at something vCloud Air and say, "Okay we weren't successful" and now go build a multi cloud, an Amazon partnership coming out of it, we have to be able to make those shifts right and be able to declare failure, be able to move our customers forward, and then move on to the next big thing >> [John] I mean the math works >> 'Cause you're not gonna get 'em all right. >> So to your point, the math works when you can abandon quickly >> [Pat] Yeah. >> That's where the winners are 'cause then you can move the probability of success somewhere else. >> Yeah and if you can't declare failure, right, and view that in the positive and proud way. One of the failures of vCloud Air became the success of our hybrid cloud service capability now, right a lot of this ability to move workloads between public clouds was a direct harvesting of our vCloud Air failure, we're able to take that technology forward and that's now one of the pillars of how we're differentiate and our Amazon service, OBH partnership, IBM, are building on those hybrid cloud capabilities. >> Pat we've been watching you that's one of the things I will say that you're really amazing at, you're good at, you're the captain, you've got your hand on the wheel, you gotta know when to say, "Hey, close that hatch, or we're going to sink," you gotta, or I'm not that there, knowing when to make the calls. So I gotta ask you, when you look at the marketplace now, you have the option to build, the option to buy, and you have to kinda also balance those three areas, you've got Ray, you've got Rajiv, and you've got the Corp Dev guys, they have to work together and sometimes, hey let's go buy that hot start up or no I have it internally, and sometimes it might be in a core competency area. Talk about as the CEO, you've got your hand on the wheel, okay, you're steering the ship, you're setting the direction, the team's workin' hard, how do you make those calls buy build, and when it's in the core area as the market's shifting, what's that look like for you? What your view as you look forward? >> Yeah there's clearly and we think about the case let's take two examples of our buy. AirWatch, hey we saw that we had nothing in mobility and if we're gonna be in end-user computing we must have mobility in the family, so we really in some degree, we didn't have a choice, we had to go buy if we're gonna be in that space and it became foundational for us in that area. You might have argued, hey we should have done that five years sooner, but we didn't, we had to make a buy decision and then we went out and shopped, literally MobileIron or AirWatch? We looked at those and bake those off until almost the last day, alright? And I went into that expecting we were gonna buy MobileIron, right? >> [John] Really? What was the tipping point? >> Right, well, I became a Silicon Valley company, I thought their technology was a little bit better, I thought the AirWatch guys were a little bit too much market and focused on winning the early market, I didn't know if the product had the quality of a VMware product, so I really was handicapping the MobileIron one and the team came out unanimously with my agreement that AirWatch was the right thing, right? In the case of Nicira, one of the other foundational acquisitions that we did, we had a lot of the distributive virtual switch technology we had already innovated, but we hadn't put a control plane, a scale control plane against and that's Nicira did, so there it was really bringing those pieces together which really has become, I'll say, a marquee aspect of our acquisition, in many cases we're in the space >> You feel good about that, how much you paid for that. >> Oh yeah, I mean at the time people said, "1.2 billion for less than 10 million of revenue, what are you guys stupid?" Now everybody says, "Wow you're brilliant." >> So they didn't look at the underlying technology. >> Absolutely >> Leverage you were getting. >> Four years of hard work, core technology, right, and boom, we're unquestionably the leader in software defined networking now as a result of making a pretty bold bet at the time. Obviously organic innovation is the best because it sort of fits in your stream, you don't have to go, you know, change gooey practices or test release practices, it's already part of you as well. But sometimes, hey, I get to look over 10 startups and pick the winner. I may not be able to fund 10 startups internally and pick the winner, but I can look out over, you pay a premium, and one of the unique things about VMware is that over the 60 or so 70 acquisitions I think we've done now, as a company we have a highly successful track record. >> Is that because of the architectural decisions? It's not just bolt on a business unit and say stand alone and produce cash you guys are thinking strategically around how it fits architecturally, is that the difference? >> I'd say it boils down to a handful of things. That's absolutely one of 'em. We're looking deep at technology, how does it fit our technology, can we bring it in? Second we look at the culture of the company, right? We've said no to some acquisitions just 'cause we've decided that culture won't fit our culture or we're not gonna be able to mold it into our culture as well. Number three, we protect this thing, we run a process by which, hey if this is the acquired company, right, and here's the CEO of this startup company, he has passion, he is the commander of his universe, and tomorrow some low-level legal person can say, "No you can't do that," right, yesterday he was enjoying (laughing). Do we protect them? Do we turn their passion and get them to believe that their passion, remember, they're, yeah they wanna be successful, but they wanna turn their passion and objective into a big industry-changing event. And is that passion better executed inside of the platform of VMware? So we protect them, that low-level legal person can't say no or that finance person, we run a special board process around 'em to protect 'em. >> You don't want people handcuffed. >> Yeah, absolutely, we want them to be unleashed, that they have more power not less after they become part of this company that the platform for their vision and passion becomes bigger as part of ours so we protect 'em like crazy in that process. >> And you do that here at Radio as well. You wanna unleash the ground swell, get the grass roots movement going, let the sparks of innovation kinda fly out there. >> Yeah and our success rate is close to 90% on acquisitions and the industry average is below 50% so I think we've really mastered organic and inorganic innovation as good as any company has in the industry. >> Yeah I will say that's the totally true. And also Vsam became a project that came out of Radio that's been highly successful. >> [Pat] Yeah totally organic in that one. >> So you guys think strategically, it's not just bolting on revenue, although that could help if you can find it, there's not much out there for you guys. (both men laughing) Let's talk about some of the hot trends here at Radio. One of the things we're seeing, obviously with tie-in of the competitive, but also the comradery, a lot of, it's interesting to see how competitive it is, but also again VMware's got a hard core engineering culture, but also a hardcore community culture that shines through, it's obvious, so props to the folks running Radio and then the process. But when you look at the trends, what's trending up is the blockchain. We talked to some of your folks there you guys are looking at this, this is really strategic aspect, you talked with Dave about it briefly at Dell Technologies World, what's your view on blockchain? Obviously, you look at infrastructure, blockchain jumps out at you, your reaction to the hype and allusions and reality of blockchain crypto currency, not so much the ICO's, I think that's just a funding dynamic, lot of project-based stuff, but really there's some infrastructuring dynamics, your thoughts on blockchain as an infrastructure enabler for future wave? >> Yeah you know a couple of comments and one is, I think blockchain as a algorithmic breakthrough is on par with public private key encryption, alright? It's just sort of opened up the world of general purpose cryptography, and I think this idea of an immutable distributive ledger, right, sort of busts apart the database and I don't have to bring things together now the databases spreads, right, across it, immutability, right, transactability, et cetera, takes a lot of the acid characteristics of core databases and now does it in the fully distributive way, very powerful and I think it's gonna change supply chains, change financial systems, it's gonna have very broad implications so overall we're in, we believe very much in the importance of that. >> Real quick, to interrupt you real quick, >> 'cause I wanna get this thought in because you brought up general purpose, one of the things we've been kind of talking off camera, most of our team members is, blockchain looks a lot like maybe processors, general purpose processors, opening up an PC revolution, in the sense of general purpose computing. Blockchain seems to have that same dynamic, potentially, not as a direct metaphor, but if you can open up a new dynamic, that could explode new business models yet to be foreseen. >> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely. If we could take the cost of transactions down by an order of magnitude, right? If you could increase the reliability of a supply chain, right? If you could right in fact guarantee the source of origin of any product against the ultimate place of consumption, these are industry-changing type of capabilities, so we do see it quite significantly that way. But then as VMware looks at it, if there's not a hard problem to solve, then we shouldn't be in this space. So our team, one of the core problems of blockchain, right >> [John] Slow. >> Is the exponential compute requirements of higher order blockchains, so our team has solved that problem we've done some algorithmic breakthroughs that we believe allow blockchain to scale, a close to linear scale as opposed to exponential scale, wow that's game-changing for, we're also solving the auditability problem, immutable, anonymous, immutable is great, but a lot of things need to audited, right? So how can you bring some of those core concepts into blockchain? So those are some of the hard problems that we're solving, sort of back to the 10x culture, solve hard problems in fundamental ways and that's what we think that we can bring to the blockchain universe. >> Well Pat, I think it's amazing that you're here at the event, I know that you love, look forward to this as well, but to have the CEO come in at the Radio event and really lead the troops by example is awesome. We've got VMworld coming up around the corner, give us some teasers, what's happening? I know you're gonna get in trouble from Robin Matlock, (Pat laughing) but come on tell us what's coming at VMworld. >> (laughes) Well you know we have, of course we have a lot of key products, updates and other things that are coming out. I hope to broaden at VMworld this year, the view of the cloud, right? And you say, "Broaden the view of the cloud, what are you talking about Pat?" Well you're gonna have to come to VMware to get the full story, but I do think that we've thought about the hybrid cloud world largely in this idea of public and private in the past, right? But we see that the vision that we're pursuing is one much larger than that where, right, it's public, private, telco, and edge, right? And the confluence of those four worlds, we believe is something that VMware is uniquely positioned to be able to bring right to the marketplace and the implications of that so, I'm quite excited as I broaden our general view >> of the cloud as we come up on VMworld. >> And one of the exciting things it's our ninth year at VMworld, we've been every year one since theCUBE's existed and thank you for your support. >> Ah that's great. >> But I gotta say, one of the things we can do is look at the tape as they say, you said in 2011 or 2012, hybrid cloud and I kind of was like, Pat come on, hybrid cloud. >> Now everybody's talking about it. >> I think that's what it is. >> Yeah. >> But 2012? How many years ago was that? >> I think 2012 I think is when we first started to use that word. >> Yeah you put the stake in the ground, >> again, you saw that as a wave and a lot's been changed and you look back since 2012 you make the right calls, you feel good about where you're at? Things you could do over? What would you do given from a progress standpoint? What's changed radically in your mind? 'Cause we're still talking about private cloud, what, I mean obviously service mesh is around the corner other cool stuff's happening. >> Yeah you know, clearly I think when we think about the STBC, hey we called it right, we're executing better than anybody else. So you can sort of say check, right? Virtual storage, check. We talk about what we've done at NuComputing, transformed their workplace, check. We're unquestionably the industry leader in that area. I think this idea of hybrid cloud it's taken us too hard, too long too hard to realize that the multicloud vision, so that's the one I'd say, okay we haven't delivered as rapidly or as effectively as we needed to, it's now really starting to materialize, but it's taken me a couple, three years longer than it should have to get there and we comment on the vCloud Air and a little bit of the miss that we had there and that delayed our schedule, also some of the Amazon aspects sent us sideways a little bit, but hey I think we're on a very good path now but then to broaden it, to what we're doing in telco, what we're doing in edge, okay this gets to be really really powerful. >> Pat, great for you success. Thanks for coming by theCUBE here at Radio 2018 this is where all the R&D, it's where the ideas are booming I'm John Furrier with Pat Gelsinger, here in San Francisco for Radio 2018, we'll be back with more coverage after this break, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering IBM Think 2018, brought to you by IBM. (lively music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back to The Cube. We're here live in Las Vegas for IBM Think 2018. It's where all the action's happening. Third day of three days, wall to wall coverage, I'm John Furrier, co-host of The Cube, we have two great guests here, Paul Papas, Global Leader of Digital Strategy at IBM's iX, new digital agency, and his cohort Matt Candy, European leader of IBM iX, a new agency within IBM specifically developed for expanding the digital services to their customers, to create the best experiences, using technology, data, and other analog and digital capabilities. Wimbledon and among others. Guys, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you, thank you, and thanks for that great introduction. >> So Paul, so take a minute, this is a novel concept. When I think of agency I think ad agency, buy some keywords, PR firms, you know, more of an adjunct to a core organization, kind of a service provider. >> Yeah. >> You guys have it a little bit different agency focus, more like management consultants meets World Economic Forum, meets, you know, UX UI design, because you are building this company. Take a minute to explain what iX is, and what's different about it in context what people might think it is. >> Sure, and thanks, a great set up in there it's like you melded a lot in there of what we do. So you can think of us as a combination of strategy consultancy, digital agency, consulting systems integrator. So we do three things with our clients, we help them design, well we help them define, their digital strategies, really their business strategy in a digital world. We help them design world-class customer experiences. Experiences that are going to be personalized, and have an impact. And then lastly we help them implement the technology. Implement the customer platforms that they use to engage with their customers in a personalized, meaningful, omni-channel way, all of those things that we do help drive a measurable business impact so nothing we do is hypothetical, everything we do is real and drives a real business impact for our clients. So, where if you might look at an agency a lot of people think of agency as marketing communications agencies, and the world has changed so fast around digital, >> Or ad agencies. >> Or advertising agencies, you know, in that vein, we're on the more transformational side. In fact we consider ourselves a business design partner. So what we're trying to do with our clients around the world is help them redefine, redesign their businesses, so that they're fit for purpose, so that they can survive and thrive in this modern world. >> Yeah, I want to get your thoughts on this, because you know looking back as a historian if you will of evolution, technology used to be slower, so agencies added value on something complex, ad agencies would create ad campaigns and some glam, glamour around something. And we even saw it in some of the lead gen side of the business, where this beautiful micro-site and the graphics are amazing, it looked great but actually didn't scale there's no tech behind it. Now fast forward, you have the requirement for cool, relevant, and glamorous, but actually having tech involved. Cloud computing has really enabled this, and the role of data has really enabled it, so this is now the new normal, the new normal for these higher-end functionalities is actually having a tech stack, technology stack, combined with business engineering logic, >> Paul: Yeah. >> And real business outcome, like profit, money outcome objectives that people might want. How do you guys explain that story because, you know, I would just call a consultant up in the past, are you guys combining it to make it easier? What's the purpose that customers call you guys in for? What are they asking for from you guys? >> So I'll start off and then Matt, you can add color commentaries, so, the way we describe what you just, what you just brought to life there, was, we have multi-disciplinary teams, so we have a combination of business strategists right, so when our clients are engaging us, they could be working with a business strategist who's really comfortable showing up for work and wearing a suit and tie, and he could be sitting next to, in our studio, sitting next to one of our creative designers who's tattooed from his wrist to his neck. >> The hoodie guy building everything. >> The hoodie guy, right, sitting there building there, next to one of our data scientists who's popping open his Lenovo laptop, it's got the latest chip in it, and he's so pumped 'cause he's going to run some crazy data analytics on it, applying AI on top of it. And all of these people work together using Design Thinking so we have an approach we call IBM Design Thinking, they've all been trained, we've trained over 16 thousand people on Design Thinking, and they all work together and come together to solve our clients' ploblems. They work in a studio environment, and we've opened up 38 studios around the world. Studios are places where we co-create with our clients, or we invite our clients in to ideate, innovate and co-create >> So it's agile on the format, on the projects, not like Waterfall, hey now you pass the ball to the other guy, it's all integrated team. >> Yes, and what you end up having is, you end up having the view of understanding the business and the client's business challenge, which is where we start when we define the strategy, when we do the design work, it's underpinned with an understanding of the technology that's going to bring this to life. So we like to say that we don't do creative for creative's sake or creative just for the beauty of the art, we do creative that can actually be made real. >> Yeah, you guys put a relevant package together. So I got to ask you now, the beauty of cloud computing was, is that you don't have to provision a data center if you don't need it. Now you see people needing a data center for privacy reasons they store their data, hence the hybrid cloud strategy, et cetera et cetera, but if I want to do something like what you guys are doing, it's going to cost me money to build it out. One, where are the people? Skills of the people, salaries of the people, tools for the people, all that is expensive to build out. So it's natural to go to someone who's already got it. So I want you guys to talk about that dynamic, of buy versus build, what stays in-house that's core competency, and what's the scale leverage that the clients get from working with you guys, 'cause you have that advantage. >> Yeah, and actually what I like to tee up is, this cost effective approach that we use to help our clients jumpstart the work that they're doing, we call it an innovation garage, and Matt and the team in the UK and in Europe have really been champions of this approach. Why don't you share some of the work we do around innovation garages. >> Yeah, so, I mean, one example is our client BP who we've been working with in this space, and helping them drive a lot of the digital reinvention of their business. And so, teams of data scientists, designers, developers, working hand in hand with product owners from the client side but ideating, finding new different digital products and services that help improve advocacy of customers drive loyalty, drive new revenue streams but very quickly taking those ideas and turning them into prototypes right, paper prototypes, actual MVPs, minimum viable products, launching them into market right, choosing some target markets, but putting very measurable KPIs around each of those things >> What's the timetable on that roughly, ballpark? >> Probably getting those MVPs out at eight to 10 weeks right >> So, fast. >> Oh yeah, fast. >> It's not months, not eight months. >> No, no, there's no Waterfall. And so a radically different approach to getting things out there, in the hands of real users. And then testing and learning, iterating, and then based on the data, actual fact and data backed against those KPIs and measurements then starting taking the decision around whether we're going to scale that into a global product. >> Yeah before we go to drill down on that, what's the alternative to doing that? How many months would it take if I want to do it from scratch in-house? >> Spinning up large transformation programs right, and >> John: A year. >> Yeah, at least, multi-years >> John: At minimum. >> Multi-years, and I think the other thing John, that's kind of key about this way of working, is that you're starting to infuse new ways of working and new ways of thinking into the client's organization right, and so Design Thinking: lean, agile, dev ops, right all of these approaches to get things done in a more rapid way and so, you're kind of driving change and transformation through making and creating and doing, not through some big change management program. And so we've been, if I took BP for example, training and certifying their people in IBM Design Thinking, certifying them as product owners and so, through the act of making and creating these services, it's changing their culture and changing how they get stuff done and it's a bit like a fire, kind of a little fire that burns and spreads within the organization as people see what's going on and want to become part of it. >> And one of the ways we do that we actually co-locate in these innovation garages. So you take a company like BP, if you go to our South Bank office, we have a dedicated floor where you have a hundred BP people with the IBM iX team, working in this innovation garage model, >> So they're learning too with you it's not like you're doing all the work and they're integrating in. No, no, we're learning together and they're building new skills and we're building new skills, and we're coming up with new ideas and innovations we're doing it in a cost-effective way, to your point before, in the past companies would spend a lot of money to try to go down a big path and try to in essence, boil an ocean sometimes. >> Yeah and your one guy quits, you got to replace, skill gaps, massive challenges. >> But also I find that from the client's perspective the thing that they're most proud of, some of the things they're most proud of, is the bin, what they call the bin. And so it's all of those ideas that we've killed as far to the left as possible right, and taking an idea that traditionally may have turned into some big program, multi-millions spent on doing it to find that it actually didn't deliver the outcome for the end consumer. >> So Matt, talk about the example with Wimbledon 'cause obviously everyone kind of can recognize that brand, you guys have been working at Wimbledon, you have a relationship with them so they've known IBM for years. What's the current state of the art with Wimbledon? What are some of the things you're doing for those guys and how is iX team, your integrated design team, working with those guys? >> So we've been partnering with Wimbledon now for about 28 years, so relationship goes back to 1990, I mean Wimbledon's been around back since the 1870s, you know, the home of kind of tennis, tennis in an English garden, so complete with rain and drizzle and gray clouds and everything else. And so, probably over the last seven years we've been working with them to drive their digital transformation, and so, how they engage with fans, and so how they use data and analytics to drive insights to put very personalized experiences in the hands of fans. So if you think about an event like Wimbledon, runs for 13 days, and about 500 thousand people get to physically experience Wimbledon in the grounds. And so their whole strategy from a digital perspective is taking the beauty of the grounds and the experience, and how they can manifest that digitally to millions of people around the world. >> And that's more than live streaming that's more than highlights, that's replicating the vibe the buzz, the experience of being there. >> Completely, so if you look at the web channel right when you go to that website, you don't actually see tennis players and stuff on there. What you might see is a beautiful flower just wafting in the breeze right, so a lot of the technology and the experience that we put together is trying to bring to life the beauty of the grounds right, through those digital mediums. And also being very thoughtful and purposeful about the different channels, so when you think about the mobile app right people use that to get snack access to data they're on the move, they want to understand the scores, alerts, iPad, people tend to use that sat on the sofa in front of the telly, you know, second screen experience so there's a different set of use cases and demands. We launched the first Apple TV app for grand slam tennis tournaments. So again, people tend to be using that for catch up and replays and so, being very thoughtful and purposeful about the... >> And you got to keep track of the digital culture 'cause it's like fashion, you got to know what's state of the art, what's going to sell VR, AR, whole new creatives coming out >> You do but you also have to do it in a way that's authentic to the product. >> Tech fashion. (laughter) The latest and greatest. >> Hashtag new hashtag tech fashion But you also have to do it, what I was going to say, you have to do it in a way that's authentic to the brand that you're representing. >> John: And relevant. >> Correct, so we're expressing the brand of Wimbledon online through digital channels and mobile channels, it has to be consistent with the brand, the brand values, the brand purpose, the brand mission. >> And that goes in to the design side of it 'cause they're going to tell you look if we go off the brand, we're not... >> The beauty, the elegance, the elegance of the sport, the elegance of the All England Tennis Club, you have to capture all of that and represent it in a way that's genuine. >> Alright so this is where the melting pot between agency, creative, ad agency, where it's much more about experience, less about the tech, and tech come together. So I wanted to ask you, I did a panel this year at Sundance called the New Creative, with Intel and it was all about the emerging new creative artists that have tech behind it, and here's what we talked about, I want to get your reaction to it. Agile, which killed Waterfall development, made things less risky, the old days was, you build something, a lot of craftsmanship goes into it, but you ship it, you don't know if it's going to work, and you hope it works and sells. Then Agile de-risked that, but you're shipping code every day. But what we lost with Agile that's now coming back, and I think this is where you guys are hitting the mark, the idea of craftsmanship in the product is coming back. So you got Agile, that's good, but it felt boring, it felt, the products didn't feel great. Yeah, certainly they were successful and they used data to be agile and always be iterating, fail fast, et cetera, but now the users want craftsmanship, they want art, they want more experience in the tech product What's your reaction to that, what's your vision? Do you agree and, if you do, what's your opinion? >> Well I agree on the recommitment to craft, and the approach that we take to that is really starting with Design Thinking, and we view this a couple different ways. One, we think Design Thinking is a way to actually solve business problems in the modern world. Now design, we view as a craft. So we have very specific craftspeople that are pure designers, that's what they do every day for a living. Everyone in our organization practices Design Thinking. So I believe that the use of Design Thinking coupled with our design community and the world-class talent that we have there, has enabled to really get an underlying need, right. So when you're doing a design, you have to have the understanding of the underlying need of the customers that you're trying to serve. And that's what we really get at, so the craftsmanship that comes in through applying Design Thinking, applying your design principles to creating something that can then be made real and have an impact. If you ask our designers, in our 38 studios around the world what they love about being part of IBM iX and being part of IBM, it's the impact that they can have. That they can see their design scale, they can see it brought to life in a way that is far beyond anything they could've done at any agency >> Can't fake design, it's like security, you can't fake it, it either works or it doesn't. >> And the way we think about design right is about almost design with a capital D. And so it's not just about how things look and feel, it's about how they work, and so how you can apply design to help solve problems in a very different way right. And how you apply design to strategy because designers are problem solvers. And so actually having people apply a designer's mindset to problem solving, you end up with very different outcomes right, you end up with a lot more innovation driving into what you're building, and I think you end up with products and services that actually help make somebody's life a little bit easier right, you're taking friction out of their life you're delivering something meaningful and of value to them. >> You're doing empathy mapping, you're doing customer journey mapping, you're doing a persona development. I want to build on what Matt said though that designers are problem solvers. When we look at Design Thinking, we have a method called IBM Design Thinking, and the logo that we use for Design Thinking is actually an infinity loop. So what we do is we combine Design Thinking with Agile and I think of IBM Design Thinking as a 3-D printing of a solution to a problem. We're designing it, we're getting at an underlying need, we're prototyping something fitting a proof of concept, we're learning, we're now doing another iteration of Design Thinking and learning more about the underlying need, testing something, and as we keep testing and learning, we add more texture to the solution of the problem and it starts coming into focus for us. >> Yeah, and the key word's problem. I interviewed a Stanford professor on the cutting edge of innovation, design she said, "Don't fall in love with your product. Fall in love with solving problems." And I think that's kind of what you guys believe. >> And I think John, to the point that you raised, about Agile, you know, we see many organizations driving kind of Agile transformation and shifting, and you know, I think our perspective is very much is you need this combination of design, of Agile and dev-ops together, because Agile allows you to pivot quickly, dev-ops allows you to kind of learn and get rapid feedback from production and putting things out there, and you've got to have this kind of design-led approach to doing stuff, because you've got to make sure that what you're building and putting out there serves a purpose and a real outcome for the end user. >> That's perfect, and most people think oh, we're Agile, check. No, whoa, hold on, stop, yeah it's not a silver bullet. >> You brought up a great point from a business leadership perspective that don't fall in love with your products, fall in love with the problems that you're solving, We are seeing that across every industry we work in, and I think this new digital age, with all these emerging technologies going mainstream so fast, AI, AR, VR, blockchain, it's allowing companies to, in some ways, reimagine their purpose, but in some ways, revisit their original purpose. So if you look at, Ford as an example, they've declared that they're going from pure car manufacturing, to mobility services. If you look at our clients in the life sciences industry, years ago they would've declared themselves as pharmaceutical manufacturers right? But now they would look at themselves as partners in health and partners in the health ecosystem. And every industry we're operating in, there's that re-imagining or revisit of the core mission. >> I think this is the only interview I haven't asked about blockchain, but I was just talking to Jesse Lund about blockchain and we talked about digital currencies, digital, and we observed, and we were talking about things are happening faster. So what's happening on digital it's a speed gain, across the board, with currency there's no clearing, it's digital, it moves instantly. So his banking side, that's his thesis, but here, your customers are challenged with looking down the barrel and being scared when, damn, this is going to be fast, what if I screw this up? I mean this is kind of how I see it happening, like it's accelerated in all aspects. >> And this is where I think, in terms of the business that we're in how we're different, and you've kind of raised the traditional agencies and stuff earlier, John. I think the difference for us is, you know when you think about the world of advertising, and companies driving their message out through shouting loudly and campaigns and building micro-sites, actually, our perspective very much is that these, most organizations need to look at how they digitally reinvent, right. And so therefore the scale of change needed as they look to reinvent their businesses, the business models, the skill pools within the organization, how they're going to use data and insights to drive different experiences you start to move to a very different level of change and transformation right, and one where these technology platforms, and becoming a platform business in these organizations, right, need a partner fundamentally who can help them scale and drive that change. >> And the data's critical, using data, using cloud, dev-ops, Agile, design, all rolled into a highly accelerated process, that's hard. >> It is hard but, >> You guys are doing it though. >> Well yeah, that's what we do for a living. It's what our clients are faced with right now. It's kind of a like a Dickensian-like challenge, right, it's A Tale of Two Cities. With all the emerging tech that we were talking about before there's never been a better time to create new innovations. To be innovative in some of the things that we're doing with BP was a great example of that. And some of the bigger things we're doing with some clients that are trying to reinvent their organization around a renewed purpose. But at the same time, there's never been a bigger threat to existing companies, in terms of there's never been more opportunity to be disrupted. So between these two poles of never been a better time to be in business, never been a tougher time to be disrupted, that's where our clients are operating. And this juxtaposition of core and new where our clients have mostly been in business for more than a few years. They have a core business that they need to grow and optimize, while they also need to expand into the new. And they can't do one or the other, they have to do both at the same time. >> And you know the customers I talk to in the industry, around this area, really look down, they look at three choices. Go for it, that's scary, need a partner to do that you guys are there for that. Don't do anything, put your head in the sand. Or three, create blockers and ban stuff. So you're seeing, you kind of walk in and you kind of figure out who's doing what. You see the blockers with all these excuses, no well we've got this other... And then the head, well we should be, they don't do anything, they're not moving. And then people who move. >> Yeah. >> I mean that's the reality right now. >> You know, what we see, we just published this research you know, a C-suite study, so we interviewed 12,000 C-suite executives, over 2,500 CEOs, and the title of this study's The Incumbents Strike Back, and that's what we're seeing now, so we're not seeing folks kind of sitting or putting their heads in the sand, they're looking at their legacy business, and the competitive advantage they have because of all the knowledge and incumbent advantage that they have, and now applying that. >> Well Paul and Matt, we don't have enough time to go into the impact of blockchain and cryptocurrencies, and initial coin offering's impact, to the token economics of how your business will change but we'll do that another time. >> Fantastic. >> Alright thanks for joining The Cube. I'm John Furrier here live in Las Vegas for IBM Think 2018. A lot of great conversations here in The Cube number one live tech coverage, extracting the signal from the noise. We'll be back with more after this short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico it's theCUBE! Covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (Latin music) >> Welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE, exclusive coverage of Puerto Rico covering Blockchain Unbound's global conference where token economics meets the real world global society, Blockchain decentralized applications, and of course, cryptocurrency all kind of coming together. You got investors, you got developers, you got billionaires and millionaires, and you got the capital markets all rolled up into one. My next guest is Andrew Prell, founder and CEO of Convergence, entrepreneur, visionary, experienced entrepreneur, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much for having me! >> So you're doing some really radical, not radical, progressive, I mean radical sounds (mumbles) Awesome things, you're re-imagining gaming. >> Andrew: Correct. >> Got a great team of people who have seen that movie before, literally, seen the entertainment side of gaming, the pro gaming side to the tactical gaming side, take a minute to explain what you guys are doin' that's super fascinating, how it works in this new era. >> So, we're re-imagining the entire game space, when I say that I'm talking the consumer side, that's cell phones all the way through consoles and PCs, out to the out-of-home entertainment side, which is arcades, location-based entertainment and full-blown theme parks, and marrying them all together with one backbone platform that allows all of the devices to interact with each other in the same game space. So you can be in a $300,000 simulator at Disneyland, workin' with guys on cell phones against guys in their head-mounted displays. Any of that, they all work together in one game space. >> So basically the world is the device, every device. >> Yes. >> On the network, IP connection or global, player, console, screen, and you're connecting them all together. Hence Convergence. >> Right, we're giving every device in the eco-system it's proper place and it's proper prestige. 'Cause if you've got a $5,000 gaming rig, you don't think a guy with a $800 cell phone should be at the exact same level, but maybe 10 other cell phones could be a equal match to you. >> Take me through a use case of how you're going to converge this all together. So you talk to some purists out there, "I've got a 4K monitor, I don't want this cell phone guy "comin' in here, he's got lag, "I got all kinds of gaming issues." Does that go away, how does it all work? >> What we're havin' to do is contextual-based interfaces, meaning that your roles and responsibilities in the game space is dependent on the devices that you bring in. Because virtual reality is not just the head-mounted display, it's all the new gear coming out with the tactile feedback, the bodysuits, the gloves, the boots, the treadmills, all of that. All of that, your roles and responsibilities in each game space is dependent on the device that you enter with. >> So I was at Sundance this year and I had a theme, I did a panel I put together called The New Creative. And if you look at all the new artists out there, they want to break down the elite gatekeepers, right? I mean the virtual-reality and augmented-reality world is colliding with film, filmmakers. You got YouTubers out there with a million, 10 million subscribers, built-in audiences, this new technology coming out. A lot of people are bringing storytelling, filmmaking, and it's just really in the early stages right now. People love the characters, but you start to see the new kind of format. Does this play into your world? I can imagine that, if you're thinking to be disruptive in the way you're thinking, new games're going to emerge so it's not thinking about the old games, it's thinking about potentially new games. >> Andrew: Correct. >> How do you view that, is that somethin' that you see? What's your reaction to that trend of this new, multifaceted VR, AR. >> We see that everybody is going to get to play together, cross every device, the developers are going to get rewarded for creating content, people are going to be rewarded for creating things inside of the games, and the players are going to get rewarded for doing all the top things, and getting to the top levels of all the games, and we're going to reward them through our cryptocurrency. >> We're in Puerto Rico obviously, this world's goin' to another level, Brock Pierce, his community, the Blockchain community, they're comin' to Puerto Rico, tax incentives, the government's here opening up their arms, But you're starting to see it go to the next level. These early industries you got the entrepreneurs and the promoters. The promoters promote the entrepreneurs, there's a lot of love goin' back and forth. But then they hit that threshold, the capital markets come in, you know, you start to see the opportunities, but the money start flowing in. It's kind of happening now, so it's goin' the next level. In your opinion, token economics; now that there's so much money flowin' in, now that people see that Blockchain's legit, now that people see that this is actually a new model, not everybody, but majority-a' people in the industry are all noddin' their heads, "Okay, Blockchain's "got some potential, token economics is a legit thing, "it's disrupting capital structures, "it's disrupting funding." How is it disrupting the gaming business? Can you share your opinion on that? >> People don't understand the overall impact. We didn't understand the overall impact. A lot of the investors coming in still don't fully understand the overall impact. I was in a discussion the other day, I'd written some articles in Medium about token economics, and about the virtuous circle of a token-based investment fund. Meaning everything that it invests, all the fees, everything coming out of it, is all based on a token inside of an ecosystem. We're about to head to GDC, Game Developers Conference, just like Kevin Bachus did for the Xbox, we're going out there to license and buy up all the content that we can through our tokens. Now the cool thing here, the thing that just makes the investment, the cash funds dead, is a dollar bill can not change in value other than go down over time slightly. So we'll just say the dollar bill doesn't change in value. If I was Kevin Bachus back when the Xbox was coming out, and I went and invested a million dollars in a hundred companies in crypto, say the Xbox is crypto, and you could only get to those games through the token, which is what we're doing, and I found Halo, which, a hundred-million people bought the Xbox just because of Halo, then what that does for a cash fund is everybody pats each other on the back because you've got one game that's goin' to exit and that's kind of cool, but that's it. Doesn't affect the rest of the economy other than a nice network effect. Halo gets a hundred million users, the next guy might get five million of those or 10 million of those, that's a nice small impact. When you do it with crypto, and you start out with a penny token, that you put a million dollars into a hundred companies, and you find that Halo, and it explodes, your penny token might go to 10 cents. So what you just did was you just 10-exed what you invested into Halo. >> It's a futures contract on gaming. >> Well. >> Kind of. >> I'm not going to talk to that point. (laughs) We're going to just talk about this example, is you 10-exed, you went from a million to 10 million in Halo, but you also 10-exed every single investment you just did, and you 10-exed every person in that ecosystem that's involved in it, that's getting paid in it. Your suppliers, your publishers, your media. >> John: Everyone gets paid. >> Everybody get 10-exed because you found Halo. So that makes this whole ubiquitous ecosystem involved with everybody else, meaning I get rewarded if you get rewarded, so everybody helps everybody else. >> That is exactly the model of token economics. >> Exactly, it explodes because it's so powerful. >> This is interesting, the inefficiencies of the process that you pointed out, the old way, is eliminated by the new model. Hence, the people who pick up the game are the participants who shorten that efficiencies. >> I had a guy the other guy ask me, "you're not asking for enough money with your ICO, "'cause you've got to go invest in all these companies." And I was like, "you don't understand token economics!". All I have to do is unlock the power of my token and invest with that, and I've already proven, back in 2015 we proved that a lot of the game developers would take our token without it even having a secondary market. >> You haven't even gone to a whole 'nother dimension that you don't even have to go to now, but that's future, is the role of consensus in these communities really also do the filtering at many levels. >> Andrew: 100%! >> If you look at what Activision got their ass handed to them, all you got to do is look at the Reddit threads. The whole gaming thing is, no one wants to see games go corporate. Because they had to force a business model, this is a huge issue, people are losing their shirts. "Oh, great creative studio, they sold out, game's over". The audience flocks away, why? 'Cause they have no incentive. Do you agree? >> I agree a 100%, but there's a lot of professional investors that don't. So we broke up the sum of our funds that we're investing into all these startups, we broke it up into 10 funds, and we're going to turn it into a game. We're going to give one of the funds purely to our token holders, and do a consensus model, and let them vote on what they think we should, what should be in our network. And they're going to go up against nine other investors. I threw down the gauntlet. Whoever gets best wins the extra bonuses. >> So are you raising money now or did you raise the token sale already? >> We're closing out our private presale, and because of Blockchain Unbound I doubt we'll actually hit the open market with the ICO, so people will have to go to our developers that we invest in, and get the tokens through them somehow. >> Good success year, huh? Blockchain Unbound been a good success for you? >> Oh yeah, Brock Pierce is on board, been pushin' behind us since Cayman. Him and Crystal both fully supported us and we're havin' awesome. >> What's your advice to people out there, scratchin' their heads, "Andrew, give me "the 101 on token economics, what's the bottom line, "what do I need to know about, where do I get started, "what do I do?". >> Once you get your token actually, say, authenticated, realized, everything's transparent, and it gets on that secondary market, it's better to use that to invest in anything you need to invest in. Get everybody incentivized around your token. All your employees, all your vendors, everybody incentivized around that token, it's a 1000% more powerful than a dollar, 'cause a dollar doesn't go up in value. Your token can go up and down, but trends up, and as soon as you find just one spark that blows up, everybody, all boats rise equally. It's awesome. >> All right, Andrew Prell, CEO, reimagining gaming. Token economics is a disruptive force. There's math involved, every company will need a a chief economic officer, that'll be a new title, we'll be certainly seein' that out. Thanks for comin' on theCUBE, 'preciate it. I'm John Furrier, you're watchin theCUBE. Exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound. Part of our two-day wall-to-wall coverage, thanks for watchin', we'll be back with more after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's The Cube covering Blockchain Unbound, brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (rhythmic salsa music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to our exclusive coverage here in Puerto Rico, Blockchain Unbound Global Conference where the leaders in the industry from entrepreneurs to investors and everything in between, from San Francisco to New York, Miami, South Africa, Russia, all over the world are here in Puerto Rico, The Cube's coverage. Our next guest is Naomi Brockwell who is hosting the event here on stage. She's emceeing it all. You go to her YouTube channels /naomibrockwell, check out her videos, hosts events all over the industry, Blockchain, celebrity, thought leader, futurist. What else are you? >> You're very, very kind. It's all not true, but I have been in the space for awhile and I love Blockchain text, so it's exciting to be here. >> I'm really impressed by your stamina and passion on stage. What a line up today, so give us the quick highlights What happened today, we were here filming. What happened inside the venue? We saw some great talks come through there. >> Yeah, we saw some great ones. A probably a highlight for me was seeing Alena. She was the former CEO of SatoshiLabs, which created Trezor, one of mt favorite hard wallets, by the way, and it was just great listening to her talk about security because that is something that is so important and people do not take seriously enough. I have people telling me, "Oh, Naomi, I started up this wallet, and I stood my public in the..." I was like, "So did you write down your private key and all that, it's in a safe place?" He's like "Yup, it's in my DropBox." I'm like, "No, what are you doing, this is not good!" Hearing her basically say anything that has touched the internet ever, any device that has been on the internet ever is not secure. Do not trust it, you need to use offline things. >> There's a lot of wallet grabbing going on digitally. >> Absolutely. >> That's come up. I saw some stuff on Telegram, people that we know, be like, "Hey, beware, a lot of hacking out there. "Got to watch your coins." >> And also, I mean there's just huge gains to be made, right, so it makes sense, especially we expect the price of Bitcoin to go up. You have hackers just targeting at specific wallets, and specific vulnerabilities, and they just keep going until they get through, so you've got to be vigilant and you got to take every precaution possible. Got to take it seriously. >> Is there a best practice that you observed? >> Absolutely. Don't store anything online. And another thing, people are telling me, "Yeah, you know, I have my private key written down." I'm like, "Great, you wrote it down twice?" They're like, "Yeah, I just printed that out twice." I'm like, "No, your printer stores an image "of everything you've ever printed out "and it's connected to wifi at all times. "That is going to be hacked. "Do not print out your private key, "your paper wallet, anything. "You've got to write this down." Paper and pen is the best practice you can use and-- >> Going old school analog, big time. >> Absolutely. And isn't that funny? You have this amazing new tech that's fantastic, cutting edge, and what are we doing to keep it safe? Pen and paper. >> Yeah, turn off all wifi, put on some vinyl records, eight-track recorder, going old school. Okay, I got to get-- >> But holding your own coins, holding your own money, having control of your own money, no one said that's the easiest practice. They just said it was the most secure and is going to give you the most power over your funds, and so if you want to do that, there's a price to pay and that is being vigilant about your security. >> One of the things about that I'm interested in talking to you about is being someone who's present at creation of a big movement like this. You've seen the evolution. What's the growing pains in the industry 'cause we're seeing a lot of people who are the pioneers, now that people, I won't call them tourists because they're still young and emerging, but you have a lot of get-rich-quick schemes. Those are obviously being filtered out pretty quickly by the community, but you're seeing new entrants come in. You have financing, got big numbers coming in, big money. How has it evolved, I mean, what's your observation? How is it maturing? What's some of the vibe? You've got some factions over here, you've got some factions over there. People are still getting along. What's the overall sentiment? >> I've been in this space for about five years, so in this industry, it's like being an absolute veteran, and what you've seen is it started out as this very libertarian space. People were interested in taking their money out of the control of government and having more autonomy over their finds, having more control over their funds. Blockchain was invented as a tool for giving people more freedom, and what you're seeing now is a bunch of people who entered the space who don't necessarily share that ethos, but what I love about Blockchain is that they're taking this technology that is inherently taking people towards a more decentralized free society, and they're applying it to all different industries. So my point of view, it doesn't bother me at all that the new entrants don't necessarily share this passion for freedom that the people who've been here since the beginning have, but the fact that they are taking this and making the world a more free place regardless is really exciting to me. >> And that's the real opportunity 'cause inherently the ethos is Blockchain, so it's not so much a political orientation or this or that. It's how you apply it. >> Exactly, and so Blockchain, being a decentralized ledger is great because when you decentralize any power structure, no matter what industry it is, I mean, you're really making people more free, you're giving them more responsibility, and I like seeing things become decentralized. >> Certainly we're a media company, we're kind of a new car, we don't believe in a central gatekeeper, so I got to ask you the question. As a YouTuber who has a big fan base and in the community, it's really disheartening for me to see John Oliver take down Brock Pierce, although it was a hilarious video up until the point where he maliciously went after Brock in a very vicious way. How does one person have that power. I mean, it shouldn't be that way, or the New York Times or a certain publication that, they're the gatekeeper still. That was an example I looked at and said, "That's where Blockchain can disrupt the media." I mean, it's great comedy, but it kind of went over the top. >> For me, I mean-- >> He got fired by the Eagles project. They wiped his name off everything. I mean, that's just, I just see that as a problem. You, what's your thoughts? >> When you say how do these people get there, John Oliver is a funny guy. I see how he got there, he's very talented, he has a great team, great writing, but that section, I thought it was pretty spot on for most of the Bitcoin segment. It got to that section, I was like, "Oh, this is kind of sloppy research." so that was disappointing. I saw that Brendan Bloomer had a nice response that he posted. He's the head of EOS. >> What did he say? >> He was just very funny and playful with John, so that was nice to see. He set him straight in terms of saying like, "What does this technology enable?" He was basically arguing Blockchain doesn't go far enough. It doesn't fulfill the needs that I see in society so I created this other thing which does XYZ. He was authoritative in stating that, "no, you just don't understand the tech." He basically clarified the Brock situation and said, "No, actually having him involved was really great." He's not involved for various reasons. Yeah, it was an interesting segment that the-- >> It was so funny after that one point. I'm like, "Oh, boy." >> I was enjoying it up til then. I was like, "Okay, this makes sense, you know. >> It's funny. >> And then it gets up to that and I'm like, "Okay, this just became an at home and I'm going to tag. This is a cheap throw, and people do that with Bitcoin. Since it's inception, you've seen people in media and mainstream media in particular target Bitcoin and they're just adopting the government narrative saying, "Oh, everyone in this industry is corrupt," or "Everyone in this industry is an ICO scammer," or "Everyone in this industry is a drug runner "and they're all selling drugs on the dark web." It's like, you know what, you can do some research and do a bit better than that, so to see John Oliver perpetuating those at-home and I'm going to attack was disappointing, but at the same time, we are seeing that narrative shift, and you're seeing more news outlets become more positive about Bitcoin. >> Also the data is the self-government and the community has the data. The truth is going to get out there. That's the purpose of Bitcoin, Blockchain, and Crypto. You've got consensus, you've got algorithms, you've got machine learning. Okay, cool. What are you up to? You've got an exciting couple things going on. You've got a lot going on, so take a quick minute to explain your big project. You've got some exciting, cool things, share it. >> Got some fun things going on at the moment. While I'm not emceeing 20 to 40 Blockchain conferences a year, which is exciting, but takes up a lot of my time, I am a television producer. I have my own show. It's Bitcoin, Blockchain-tech based. Then on top of that, I'm a film producer, television producer. We're working on a really exciting series right now. It's called The HardFork Series. It's this dystopian future, it's a sci-fi thriller. $18 million, or it's a large budget, and we have one of the guys from Ozark, on Netflix originally. If you haven't seen it, you should see it. It's a great show. Christopher James Baker is our lead and the community support we have garnered for this project is great because we have not only Hollywood types, our director is a Sundance alumni. We've also got people in the Crypto Space who have a huge amount of credibility. We've got Bruce Fenton, Jason King on our Board of Advisors. People who understand the space, so the community is excited about for the first time having a mainstream production that is being created with a large budget where people in the industry have control of the narrative. We haven't had control of the narrative yet. >> That's true. >> The government's still controlling it, mainstream media's still controlling it, and so to create a series that could potentially expose people to this technology for the first time and to have control of that narrative is exciting. >> Is it going to be inspirational, it going to be a comedy? >> It's going to be gritty, it's a sci-fi thriller. We call it a crypto-thriller noir. Is that not the best genre you've ever heard? It's pretty cool. It's this idea that in the future the government has their own Blockchain and there's Crypto Coins that they have. It's all centralized and they control the populous with this augmented reality where everything is gamified. Basically the idea is the government's trying to distract people from important issues, like gamifying everything. You have this group of renegades who comes in. They're like, "No, we're going to decentralize this." They come and work their magic. >> It's Mr. Robot meets Black Mirror. >> Oh, yeah, no, it's pretty great. >> Kind of thing goin' on? It basically is a tale about the power of decentralization and how it can disrupt all authoritarian role, which I think is just a great topic for right now. >> What's your background? Where are you, out of LA, New York? >> I'm based in New York. My background actually. >> How'd you get here? >> I was an opera singer. That's how I got here. I moved to New York as an opera singer and then pivoted into movie production, and from there went on to television production. I got into the Crypto Space because I'm really interested in Australian economics and love the philosophy that Bitcoin was created on. It's been an interesting journey. >> You got addicted. >> Yeah, now I kind of-- >> You went to the light. >> Yeah, I'm bringing everything together now with my Bitcoin, economics-based, Crypto-thriller noir, so it's pretty exciting. >> I'm super impressed. Congratulations on all your continued success. Great job emceeing the Blockchain Unbound. >> Thank you. >> Great energy, great mind, great to have you on The Cube. Thanks for sharing >> It's wonderful to be here. >> your story. Thanks for everything. It's The Cube, I'm John Furrier here. Breaking down, we've got all the action in Puerto Rico. Thought leaders, entrepreneurs, investors, people in the industry sharing their story. Sharing the data with you, that's our mission. Thanks for watching. Day two tomorrow, we'll see you then. (engaging tones)