>> From the Salesforce Tower in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Accenture TechVision 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. (electronic music) >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at the Salesforce Tower, the 33rd floor, brand new Accenture Innovation Hub, five stories here in the building, the ribbon cutting this morning, and we're really excited to have our next guest. He's been on many times, I think the first time in 2013. Fresh off the plane from Davos, Paul Daugherty, great to see you. >> It's great to be here Jeff and thanks for joining us at this event. It's a really big day for us here. >> Absolutely, now I didn't get your title in, I give you Chief Technology and Innovation Officer. You're really at kind of the forefront, so let's jump into the TechVision. This is something you guys do every year. You pick five kind of big trends that we should be taking a look at. There's a lot of detail. People can (laughs) take their time to read through it. But, I just want to touch on some of the highlights. What are some of the big changes from when we sat down a year ago? >> We have five trends this year. The number of trends varies a little bit, but the, you know, I think the one key takeaway and highlight from the Vision this year is this idea, the big idea, that we're entering the post-digital era, and I think many people will be surprised by that. They'll go what do ya mean post-digital? >> When you said that earlier today, I'm like post? We're just right in the meat of it aren't we? >> Right, but just to contextualize that a little bit, last year companies spent 1.1 trillion dollars on digital transformation. 94% of companies are doing some stage of digital transformation. 68% of them said they're pretty well set with their digital transformation. >> They said they're set? >> They're in good shape. Now you can question it. >> Does that surprise you? >> I question it, yes, it surprises me, and we're not sure that that's entirely-- >> Accurate? >> Representative, >> That's okay. >> But nonetheless, what is true is that every organization is adopting digital, and the question we're asking in the Vision is if everybody's doing digital, what's going to differentiate you? And, we believe that that's the characteristics of the post-digital environment where what you did leading up to now isn't going to be enough to differentiate you and lead to success in the future. In the post-digital era, it's about some new business concepts about how you shape your business and new technologies and some new corporate obligations that are going to be instrumental in your success as an organization. >> I want to dig into that a little bit 'cause I think it's a really interesting conversation. At the ribbon cutting this morning, we had representatives from the city and county of San Francisco, a representative from, I think, San Francisco State academic institution, and you said in some earlier remarks today that the responsibility for the company has moved beyond kind of stewardship for their customers, stewardship for their employees and their shareholders, but really they've got to be kind of active contributors to the community. And, that's been kind of called out over the last couple years especially in the tech industry that hey, you can't just do this stuff willy-nilly. You got to kind of take responsibility for what you can do. >> Yeah, well put, and that's one of the key things that we've been talking about in prior Visions, if you'll recall. This year, it's a big theme. The importance of this is, it's not just because it feels good. It's not just because you want to create good headlines. It's instrumental to your business success to be responsible, to create trust with your workers, employees, consumers and citizens and people in the communities you live in, and I'll explain why. What's happening is, we're creating increasingly intimate technology-enabled experiences for consumers. Think about implantable medical devices to prevent epileptic seizures. Think about the monitoring devices we use. Think about the information that's collected on us. People swipe on Tinder 1.1 million times per second, 3.7 million Google searches per second, 178 million emails per second, 266,000 hours of Netflix tracking every pause, play, fast forward, yeah per second, 266,000 hours. There's so much information collected on us out there. Our information is being used in so many different ways, and the technology is enabling companies to create individualized services for you that are great for consumers, but they're only going to be great if companies build the trust with their customers to get that data from them and if they honor the boundaries of responsibility to make sure they can sustain those products and services. >> But Paul, you scare me to death because every day we hear this breach, that breach, this breach, that breach. It's almost now-- >> Three billion identities in 2018 alone stolen. >> That's half the world, right, or almost. So, it's almost like okay, that's going to happen. And now that you're getting all this additional information, now you can tie the information from my phone that I'm takin' eight trips to 7-Eleven a day and spending way too much time on my couch not movin' around and how those things are going to tie together. One, for kind of the ethics of how the information is used when they have it, and two, it is probably going to get breached. An amazing concept you talked about earlier today, a digital twin. We hear about it from GE all the time for a jet engine, but to have a digital twin of me in some data base, that's, uh, you know, it's with everything, right? There's a good side and a scary side. >> There is, but I think this is where the idea of trust becomes very important. We need to think about, companies need to think about these services and their consumers in different ways. A lot of people, including myself, in the past have used phrases like data is the new oil. Data's the gold of artificial intelligence in this digital age we're living. I think that's dead wrong, and we got to change the mindset. Data isn't fuel or gold. Each piece of data is a fragment of a person and represents a part of a person's activity and identity, and I think if you change your thinking that way, and if you take a view that it's not all about optimizing the use of data, but it's about carefully using data in the right way that builds trust and provides value for the consumer, and you get that equitable exchange of value, that's what the future's all about. >> Right, so one of the topics, and again, we don't have time to go through all of 'em here, and you're going to give a presentation later, it's kind of just the whole machine and human interaction and how that's evolving. Specifically, I want to ask in terms of the work world. We hear about RPA, and everybody should have their own bots, and you can have bionic legs, so that you don't hurt your back if you're doing lifting. So, as you guys kind of look at how these things are melding, it's going to be an interesting combination of people with machines that are going to enable this kind of next gen of work. >> Yeah, no it'll be interesting. I think the important thing that we need to really think about is that like anything else, all these technologies are being designed by us, and we're deciding how to use them. We're deciding the principals around it, so this is about how do we design the world we want which gets back to the theme around responsibility and such. If you look at it, we find that workers are actually optimistic about the technology. Two thirds of workers are positive and optimistic about how all this technology's going to improve their job to even increase career prospects, but only half of those workers believe that their companies are going to provide them with the right training and learning. When we're talking about the human plus trend in here, the human plus worker trend is that it's not a nice to have for companies to provide learning platforms and train their employees. It's critical to their success because the jobs are changing so fast, roles are changing so fast, that if you as a company don't invest in a learning platform to continuously advance your people to fill the new jobs as they're being redefined every day, you as a company are going to get left behind, and that's what we're talking about in the human plus trend of the Vision. >> Right, another thing we hear all the time in terms of how technology's advancing on accelerating curves and people aren't so good at accelerating curves, but very specifically how no one person in one particular industry really has visibility as to what's happening in all these tangential. What's happening in health care? What's happening in drugs? What's happening in logistics? I'm in the media business, so I don't know. You guys are really sitting in an interesting catbird seat because you can see the transformation and the impacts of technology across this huge front, and it's that movement across that front which is really accelerating this thing way faster than people realize I think. >> Yeah it is, and it's a great position to be in to be able to look across like that. The thing I would say though is that unlike other eras of technology earlier, we're seeing remarkably broad industry adoption of these concepts. It's a little different in each industry as you just said, but every industry is looking at this. The interesting thing to me is one of the most common requests that I get from CEOs and from the C-Suite is they want to pull together a workshop, and they want to talk about their strategy and where they're going, and very often, more often than not now, they're saying, and I want to hear from people outside my industry. I want to hear what's happening over there. If I'm in insurance, I might want to hear what's happening in retail, or you know, they want to hear about different industries because they understand that the change is happening differently. They want to make sure they're not missing a pattern that they could apply in their own industry. >> Right, so last question before I let you go. You're speaking all the time. You're talkin' to customers. You go to cool shows like Davos and get to hang out with other big-brained people, but you get to participate in all these things, and now you have this facility. What does the Innovation Hub and these resources enable you to do with the clients that you couldn't do as we sit here in this beautiful new facility? >> Yeah, that's a great question. It's something we've worked on really hard over the last four or five years. It's creating what we call our Innovation Architecture, and it's, what we think, a unique way of putting together capability from research and thought leadership to our Accenture Ventures which is our venture capital investing arm to Accenture Labs which is our R and D and inventors to our studios where we co-create with clients to our industry professionals, the 2,000 people here in Northern California that are working with our clients everyday, and we can put all that together to turn the idea, the research, into results very quickly for our clients, and I don't think anybody can do it in the same way we can by co-like-heading all this and by the sheer investment we put into this. We invest over 800 million dollars a year in research and development, over a billion dollars a year in training for our people, and that results in things like 6,500, 6,500 patents that we generate, more than anybody else in our sector, and 1,400 of those come from our people right here in the San Francisco Innovation Hub, so it's an amazing place for innovation right here. >> All right, well Paul, thanks again for taking a few minutes. I know it's a busy day. You're gettin' ready to go present the findings for people. Where should they go to learn more about the TechVision? >> Go to accenture.com dot, uh, accenture.com/techvision. I think at midnight tonight Pacific Time it'll be out there, but by the time they see this, they'll probably have access to it, thanks. >> Paul, thanks for takin' a minute and good luck tonight. >> Always fun, thanks Jeff. >> He's Paul, I'm Jeff, you're watchin' theCUBE. We're at the Accenture Innovation Hub in downtown San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower. Thanks for watchin'. (electronic music)

>> From the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas, It's theCUBE, covering HoshoCon 2018. Brought to you by Hosho. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here for CUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for HoshoCon. This is the first industry conference where the smartest people in security are together talking about blockchain security. That's all they're talking about here. It's a bridge between multiple diverse communities from developers, white hat hackers, technologist, the business people all kind of coming together. This is theCUBE's coverage, I'm John, for our next guest Anand Prakash, who's the founder for AppSecure. He's also the number one bounty hunter in the world. He's hacked everything you could think of; exchanges, crypto exchanges, Facebook, Twitter, Uber. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining me. >> Uh, thank you John. >> So, you've hacked a lot of people, so let's, before we get started, who have you hacked? You've hacked an exchange. >> Yeah. >> Exchanges plural? >> Most of the exchanges. >> Mostly the exchanges? >> Yeah, ICOs. >> ICOs? >> Yeah, and bunch of other MNCs. >> Twitter, Facebook? >> Twitter, Uber, Facebook, and then Tinder. Yeah. >> A lot. >> Yeah, a lot. I cannot say the name. >> You're the number one bounty hunter. Just to clarify you're a white hat hacker, which means you go out and you do a service for companies. And it's well known that Facebook has put bounties out there. So, you take them up on their offer, or-- >> Yeah, so basically companies say us, hack us, and we'll pay you. So, we go and try to hack their systems, and say this is how we are able to discover a vulnerability, and this is how it can be exploited against your users to steal data, to hack your systems. And then they basically say, this is how much we are going to pay you for this exploit. How did you get into this, how did you get started? >> So, it started with a simple Phishing hack in 2008. It was an Orkut phishing hack, and one of my friend telling me to hack his Orkut account. And I Googled, how to hack Orkut account, and I wasn't having any technical knowledge at that point of time. No coding, no knowledge, nothing. I just Googled it and found ten steps, and I followed that ten steps. Created a fake page, I sent it to my friend, and he basically clicked on it, and there it is, username and password. (laughs) >> He fell for the trap >> Definitely, >> right away. >> Yeah. >> So, quick Google kiddie script kind of thing going on there, which is cool. Okay, now you're doing it full-time, and it's interesting here, this is the top security conference. Those are big names up there, Andreas was giving keynote. But I was fascinated by your two discussion panels, or sessions. Yesterday you talked about hacking an exchange, and today it was about how to hack Facebook, Twitter, these guys as part of the bounties. This is fascinating because everyone's getting hacked. I mean you see the numbers. >> Yeah. >> I mean, half a billion dollars, 60 million here, 10 million. So, people are vulnerable and it's pretty easy. So, first question for you is how easy is it these days and how hard is it to protect yourself? >> So, the attacks, the technologies, and then attacks are getting more sophisticated, and hackers are trying newer and newer exploits. So, it's good for companies and descryptpexion just to employ ethical hackers, white hat hackers, and moodapentas, and bunch of other stuff to secure their assets. So, it's, you wouldn't say for companies not doing security, then it's very easy for someone like us to hack their systems, but there were companies doing Golden Security. They are already have an internal security team, external folks securing their systems, then it's difficult. But, it's not that difficult. Let's talk about your talk yesterday about the exchange. Take us through what you talked about there that got some rave reviews. How did you attack the exchange? What did you learn? Take us through some of the exchanges you hacked and how, and why the outcome? >> Yeah, so, we have been auditing bunch of ISOs and exchanges from past two months, and quite a good number. So, what we see is most of them, don't have security, basic security text in place. So I can log into anyone's account. They have a password screen on the UA, but I can simply type it in without, without no indication or alteration, I can just log into anyone's account, and then I can get fund's out of their system. Very similar to, one issue which we found in talk in sale, was we were able to see PIA information of all the users. All the passwords details and everything, who has done KYC. So, there are lot of information disclosures in the API. And the main thing which we hackers do is we try to test this systems manually instead of going more into an automated kind of approach, running some scanner to figure out sets of hues. So, scanners are, sorry. Scanners are obviously good, but they're not that much good in finding out all the logical loopholes. >> So, you manually go in there, brute force, kind of thing? >> Yeah, not exactly, not that brute forcing, >> Not brute force. >> but of our own ways of doing things, and there are lot of good bounty hunters or white hat hackers, who are better than me and who are doing things. So, it becomes more and more sophisticated. We don't know when you get hacked. >> So, when the bounties are out there, does Facebook just say, hey, go to town? Or they give you specific guidance, so, you just, they say go at us? What do you do? >> Yeah, so basically the publicist sends some kind of legal documentation around it, and some kind of scoping on the top targets to hack. And then, they basically publish their reward size, and everything, and the policy and everything around. And then we just go through it. We try to hack it and then we report it to their team, via channel, and then they fix it, and then they come back to us saying, this is how we fixed it and this is what the impact was, and this is how much we're going to pay you. >> And then they just they pay you. >> Yeah, my yesterday's talk was mainly focused on hacking these ICOs, and descryptpexion in the past. Some of the case studies which we have done in the past, and obviously we can't disclose customer names, but we directed some of the information, and showed them how we helped them. >> What should ICO's learn, what should exchanges learn from your experience? What's the walkaway for them? Besides being focused on security. What specifically do you share? >> Yeah, so to be very frank, I know few of the companies and bunch of companies who don't appreciate white hat hackers at all. So, these are ICOs and crypexinges. So, the first and foremost thing they should do is, if they are not having any internal, external, if they are having any internal security team right now, then they should go further back down the program to make sure people like us, or people like other white hat hackers, go and hack their systems and tell them ethically. >> How does a bounty, how does someone set that up? >> So, uh-- >> Have you helped people do that? >> Yeah, so, our company does that. We help them setting up a bug bounty program from scratch, and we manage it by our typewriting platforms, and we invite private, and we do it privately, and we invite ethical hackers to hack into their systems ethically. And then we do have arguments with bunch of them, and that's how they're going to secure. >> So, how does that work, they call you up on the phone? Or they send you an email? They send you a telegram? How do they get in touch with, the website? They do face-to-face with you? They have to do it electronically? What's the process? >> For the bounty hunting? >> Yeah, for setting up a bounty program. >> Yeah, for setting up a bounty program with our company, we basically get on Skype call with them, we explain them what is going to be their budget and everything. How good their security team is, and if they are not having any internal security team, what I know, then we never suggest them going for the bounty program because they may end up paying huge amount of money. (John laughs) So, then we basically sell our pen testing services to them, and say, this is, you should go out for a pen testing service first, and then you should go for a bounty program. >> Because they could be paying way too much in bounties. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, 'cause they don't know what their exposure is. So, you do some advisory, consulting, get them set up, help them scale up their security practice basically. >> Yes, yes, yes. Their entire security team. >> So what was the questions at the sessions? What were some of the things the audience was asking you? Did any good questions come out that you were surprised by, or you expected? >> No, so, all of, so, for the very first talk, about the hacking the crypexion and all, all of them were surprised. They thought putting up a two-factor authentication, or something like that, makes their account secure. But it's not like that. (both laughing) We hack on the APIs. So, it's very, very, very super easy for us most of the time. >> So, the APIs are where the vulnerabilities are? >> Yeah. >> Mainly. >> The APIs, the URLs. >> Yeah. So, you guys use cloud computing at all? Do you use extra resource? I saw a bunch of stories out there about quantum computers, and that makes things better on the encryption side. What's your thoughts on all that, and hubbub? >> Yeah, so mainly we use anomaly intercepting proxy to intercept these calls, which are going on a straight to PS outputting, out of our own SSLP, 'cause the safety we get, and then trusting it. So, we try to plane to the APIs and them doing stuff. We don't need a big, high-end machine to hack into services. >> Gotcha, so you're dealing with them in the wire transmission. So, what do you, tell me about the conference here, what of some of the hallway conversations you've had? What's your observation? The folks that could not make it here, what's it like? What's the vibe like? What's it like here? >> So, they missed lot of things. (both laughing) And um, it was first Blockchain Security Conference, and I've been flying from all over doing the art, to just attend this conference. I was here one month back for Defcon and Black Hat, and for some other hacking event. >> So, you wanted to come here? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I meet a lot of cool people here. I met so many great people. >> I planned it out even before Defcon Black Hat. (laughs) >> Okay, go 'head. >> I had to go to Hosho. (giggles) >> I think this is an important event 'cause I think it's like a new kind of black hat. Because it's a new culture, new architecture. Blockchain's super important, there's a lot of interest. And there's a lot of immature companies out there that are building fast, and they need to ramp up. And they're getting ICO money, which is like going public, so, it's like being grown-up before you're grown-up. And you got to get there faster. And I mean, that seems to be, do you agree with that? >> Um, yeah, definitely so. A lot of people love putting money into ICOs then what if they go tag, then people don't know about security that much, so, it's a big-- >> So, what are you excited about? Stepping back from the bounty hunter that you are, as you look at the tech industry, security, and blockchain in general, what are you most excited about? What are you working on? >> So, frankly saying, so, I'm looking forward to hack, articulately hack more and more exchanges, and uh, I believe none of them should die the legal tag, but, that's where most of the money is going to be in the future. So, that's the most interesting thing. Blockchain security is the most-- >> Yeah, that's where the money is. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> The modern day bank robbery. It's happening. Global, modern, bank robbery. (Anand laughs) Andreas is right, by the way. (Anand giggles) He talked about that today. It's not like the old machine gun, give me the teller way. Give me your cash drawer, on, it's-- >> That was a very nice talk. >> It's other people from other banks with licenses. >> Yup. >> The new bank robbers. Well, thanks for coming on theCUBE, sharing your story, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Great to have you on. >> Thank you for inviting me. >> You're a real big celebrity in the space, and your work's awesome, and love the fact that you're ethically hacking. >> Yeah, by the way, I'm not the world's number one bounty hunter. I'm just-- >> Number two. >> Not number two, maybe, there are lot people out there. >> You're up there. >> I'm just learning and-- >> We could do a whole special or a Netflix series on the bounty hunting. >> Yeah, yeah. (laughs) >> And follow you around. (both laughing) And now, thanks for coming out, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you. >> Good to see-- >> All right. More CUBE coverage after this short break, stay with us. Here, live, in HoshoCon. First security conference around Blockchain. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering PagerDuty Summit '18. Now, here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit at the Westin St. Francis in Union Square, San Francisco. About a thousand people getting together talking about the evolution of PagerDuty. We're really excited to have Jennifer Tejada here, the CEO just coming off a terrific keynote. And I got to say congratulations on your recent round of funding that made all the news a week ago. It's great to see you. >> Thank you very much. It's great to see you again as always, Jeff. We love having theCUBE with us at Summit. >> Thank you, and I have to say we do hundreds of events over six years I've been doing this. I've never seen a summit picture in the keynote until the Summit. So, you got it worked in twice. I love the message really about taking the team to the top of the mountain, that moment of truth, and then you got to just go for it. You got to be prepared, you got to have the team, and at some point in time, you just got to go. >> Point 'em down. >> Yeah, so let's jump into it. So, big topic, here before it's been kind of DevOps, but you guys are moving beyond that. You're kind of taking this classic play, start as an application, move into a platform space. And you guys now with all these integration announcements, the announcements of BI, the growth obviously, the support from the funding that you just got shows that you guys are well on your way to take what was a pretty special purpose application and take it into a platform play that crosses a whole bunch of other applications. >> Yeah, I'd take it even one step further, we almost started out more like a consumer app. It was really an application built for engineers to make better use of their time on call. And frankly, not being woken up when they didn't need to be, right? >> Right. >> And so, everything about our first product was designed around what does a developer need, what does an Ops person need, what does that look like, et cetera? As opposed to being designed for the CIO, or the CTO, or the company. >> Right, right. >> Right. And I think that that user centricity, that user ethos has served us really well, because we start there. That's our starting point. Who's the community that is using our products and services? How is their role changing? How is their world changing? And what do they need from us? And that was really the foundation of the trust that we built to start to become truly an ecosystem. Because all those users started pushing their data to us. Their monitoring data from their APM environments, or the data from their ticketing platforms, or the data from their cloud services. And with that information comes the power to be able to really create context. >> Right, right. >> And now, with the aggregation of nearly 10 years of data coming from our responders, and how they behave when they're under pressure of the workflows, which ones work better, which ones don't work so well. And the events, the signals that all of technology and the internet of things throws off in realtime all the time. You bring that data together and apply machine learning and artificial intelligence to it, and we really are putting ourselves in a position not only to be the platform that serves a realtime business, and orchestrates teams as sort of the platform for action, but importantly, becomes the trusted engagement for automation or engagement of autonomy. >> Right. >> For a fast-moving business in the future. >> Right, 'cause you talked about realtime and I just want to throw a couple of numbers out that you had from the keynote. 3.6 billion events, so it becomes apparent really fast-- >> So far this year. >> Right, even the people who are at the center of that, that's kind of hard to manage. So, you have to start using intelligence. You have to start to use business intelligence and artificial intelligence to help filter and help that person do their job much better. So, you guys are making a lot of plays there. And we see it all the time. It's not the BI vendors per se, it's the use of this technology in the background to make apps work better. >> And it's the fact that not only do we correlate the signals and turn them into intelligent insights, but we can then route those signals intelligently to the right people, and orchestrate the actual physical work. So, a lot of the technology community has been focused on just that, technology. And our focus is really on people and teams. How do you empower teams closest to the action, closest to where the proverbial stuff hits the fan. >> Right, right. >> I had to really exercise restraint there. To be in a position to make the best possible decision in those tiny micro-moments that matter. And the consumer, like used to wait maybe six minutes for a website to download. Now, if an app doesn't work perfectly in six seconds, maybe three seconds, you're gone. I walk out of the building in our office in San Francisco, and see our employees and they're toggling back and forth between ride sharing apps and food delivery apps, and Tinder, and whatever else is going on. And it's literally like in a couple of minutes, they're working through eight, nine applications at once. And if any one of those does not work the way it's supposed to, they're done. >> Right, right. >> They just move on. And it's one or two times before they'll delete that. >> Right. >> So, the technology community is now responsible for delivering the perfect brand experience digitally every time. And they've got to be empowered to do that with the right tools and services. >> And the expectation is set by the best. That's the funny thing, right? What was the best or cutting edge quickly becomes the expected norm. >> What is the most delightful thing that ever happened to me, well, that's what I want from you. >> Right. >> That is basically the way it works. >> Right, right. And you talked about trust, and trust is such an important part because one of the key pieces that you guys are enabling, you talked about it in your keynote, is letting the person at the front line in that moment of decision have the tools, and the data, and the authority to make the right call. And it's not a escalation up the food chain, waits, and some emails. It's really empowering that individual to get the right thing done. >> And that's a core tenet of DevOps culture. It's actually born and agile, in fact. But what's really interesting about it is it's the way companies need to be run now. If PagerDuty waited for me to make every big decision, we would be back where we were three years ago. >> Right. >> Right. And as a result of being able to empower our teams with great information, very clear understanding of our goals, and the timeframes we expect to achieve those goals, and then context as we progress through our journey to understand how we're doing against those goals, it gives them the power and the intelligence to make better decisions every moment when I obviously can't be there, or their leadership can't be there. And in fact, it means that the most important decisions are getting made where the person's closest to our end customer, the user. >> Right. >> And that makes a ton of sense to me. Even if it's not the way I was taught leadership, or taught to manage. >> Right, well, you clearly get out front and run those people down that big, giant mountain. >> Well, I just, you know-- >> Every time we meet-- >> I got to figure it out, man. >> I learned about Australia last time I saw you speak at the Girls in Tech thing. So, this is great. Another thing that you acknowledge in your keynote I want to get into is that tech people are imperfect. They are imperfect and that's kind of part of what the DevOps ethos is is that that's okay, we're just going to make it better today than it was yesterday. And I think Ray Kurzweil's keynote about exponential growth and just the power of compounding, which so many people miss out on. So, that's really where you're trying to help people solve problems. It isn't to big eureka moment, it's how do we learn, how do we get better, how do we make improvements? >> Well, and a lot of people in the valley talk about failing fast. In order for failing fast to have a benefit for a company, you not only have to be allowed to fail, it has to be okay when you fail, and there has to be an open transparent conversation about what you learned, what went wrong? And that has to be a blameless, high-empathy discussion or it doesn't work. If someone thinks they're going to get fired by marching you through all the details of their failure, they're never going to tell you the truth. So, when we think about incidents as they come up, or something breaking, not working the way it's supposed to, or a business initiative not turning out the way we thought it would, there has to be a blameless conversation so that everybody in that community learns, so we're better the next time around. And that's where the compounding benefits come. >> Right, right, to the whole team, in fact. I thought the quote, I've never seen that quote that you brought up today. Teamwork remains the ultimate competitive advantage because it's both so powerful and so rare. That is a really scary statement, but we see it all the time. In fact, that was in another keynote and there was a behaviorist talking about, how do we get everybody pulling in the same direction? And John also talked about that in terms of incident post-mortems and how do you make sure that you're learning and not just filing reports. >> Totally. >> So, you guys are right in the middle of that. >> I thought John captured it really well when he said, "It's not about the technology. "We spend all of our time monitoring "and talking about the technology. "It's about us. "And it's us that actually makes this technology great "and applies it so effectively to problems, "and challenges, and opportunities "in our world and in our lives." what's also interesting is Patrick Lencioni's paradigm around the first team. So, most employees come into a business and they think the most important world for me in this company is my team, the people in the team who I report to, a leader, and it's just us. Or for leaders, they say it's just the team that reports into me. Your first team is your peer group. Your first team is that, and by first team I mean the most important, highest priority, aligned organism that is going to drive massive change in a business, it's your peer group. It's the people who work across functions to help reduce friction in a business. >> And drive fast outcomes and great results, right? But most people naturally kind of hunker down into their core team and that's the beginning of the silo mentality. >> Right. >> Right. And so, one of the things I love about Patrick's book, and you're going to hear about that tomorrow onstage, is this idea of what it takes to be an ideal team player, to be humble, to be hungry like good is never good enough, and to be smart, to like constantly be learning, to really care deeply about how you continue to push the envelope to get better. >> Right. So, I want to switch gears a little bit from the people in the individual teams to the ecosystem. You had the ton of partners here at the show, and you talked about in the keynote, 300 integrations. >> Yeah. >> And I think some people might be confused, right? Because it's always this wrestle for whose screen am I working on when I'm doing my daily job? But as you said, we're in a lot of different screens, right? And I'm going back from Salesforce. I'm in my G Suite. Maybe I'm jumpin' into Hootsuite for some social stuff. You guys have basically embraced the ecosystem for all these different types of systems, and really kind of plugged into that. I wonder if you can explain a little bit more. 'Cause I'm sure most people might be confused by that. >> You know, I sort of think of us in the same way I would think of like the brain of an Olympic athlete. That athlete, their arms, their legs, their muscles, their pulmonary capability, like the respiratory system is all super important to their performance. But the brain has to accept the signals from all the different parts of the body, and then work through them, correlate them, and then drive action, right? And I sort of think of PagerDuty as sitting at the center of this rapidly changing technology ecosystem, this live organism, and really understanding the signals no matter what, is it raining, is there a pothole in the ground, et cetera? And be able then to drive change in the process on the fly to help the body perform more effectively. The challenge is like if you try and fight with the arms, and the legs, and every other part of the body, they don't work nicely with you. >> Right. >> So, being central to the ecosystem is about being neutral, and agnostic, and really demonstrating you will not only say you will partner, but investing in those partnerships. So, we built first class integrations to companies that may see us as competition, if that's what our customers need. >> Right, 'cause like you said, it's got to be customer-- >> Totally. >> Customer centric first. >> And it's an open ecosystem, and this is what developers, and employees, and tech workers expect. >> Right, and to your point, the amount of data that's flowin' through that nervous system is only getting more. And the amount of noise to get through to the signal-- >> Figure out-- >> To take the right action. >> What really is important. >> Is not getting any easier, right? >> Yeah. >> All right, Jennifer, well thanks again for havin' us. Congratulations on the funding and the great show, and it's always great to catch up. >> Thank you, I have the best job in the world. I feel very lucky. >> All right. >> It's great to see you, Jeff. >> Thank you, all right, she's Jennifer Tejada, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watchin' theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit where they actually show summits on the keynotes screen. Thanks for watchin', we'll see you next time. (bouncy electronic music)

(click) >> Welcome this special Cube conversation in the Intel Tech Lounge at the Sundance Film Festival. I'm John Furrier with The Cube. We are here with Ari Kuschnir, who is the founder and managing partner of Missing Pieces. Doing some really amazing work on the future of filmmaking. He's got a great entrepreneurial spirit. And creative desire to deliver great product. Welcome! >> Thank you, thank you. >> So, tell them about Missing Pieces and what's going on in your world. So, there's context. Take a minute to explain what you are working on. >> Well, the premise is to be at this intersection of storytelling technology. And to make stuff people actually want to watch. And VR and AR are parts of it. But not the whole. So, I know some of the conversation focus is on, is on VR, and we're just as excited about where storytelling is headed. In terms of what technology allows us to do. But the key for me is. I'm just passionate about, a new thing comes out. And I want to figure out how to make something really great. But meaningful, and powerful with that. >> We were talking before you came out about filmmaking, obviously trained in the discipline, obviously a variety of other things. But I want to get your perspective, we're on top of this new generation, what does that mean to you? When you hear that new generation, a new creative is coming? What does that mean to you? >> Yeah, I feel like I've ridden the wave of the thing as it's happened. And I mean, the company has too. So, I went to film school in the late 90s. And it was the first time you could buy like, first Final Cut, and the first wave of that. So you could make art little movies on the weekend, you no longer needed even to go to the school itself to borrow the equipment. That was revolutionary in 1999. And then 2005, when we started thinking about the company. You know, your Vimeo, YouTube, video i-Pod all come out within five months of each other. Towards the later part of the year. And it's a revolution. It's clear that with distribution, now not only can we make it and edit it in our laptops. But we can put it out, and millions of people could watch it. And that was the first time that was possible. And it was revolutionary. And I think it still is, to some degree. So, we've just, you know, as it evolves what I see is that, it's not, I've always felt like it's not enough to make the sausage as they say. You know, the directors, the talent that I sign now. Like the project we have now here at Sundance, young Jake. Jake is a great example of a creative who you can't fit in a box. He's an Internet artist, he's a rapper. He's an interactive video maker. He did an app called Emoji.Ink. And he does celebrity emoji portraits. He has a hundred thousand followers on Instagram. So, he can command his own audience. So, when a brand, or an agency comes to him. It's a very different approach than when they come for a very straight up work for hire, director's commercial kind of thing. That is the future, I mean. The future is about having a passionate audience, making things for that audience, understanding it. And being able to communicate with them on a daily basis, or a weekly basis in a powerful way, right? Through story. >> Yeah, I mean, you're riding the wave. And the waves are getting bigger. One of the things we do, we do a lot of tech coverage. And we see this in Cloud computing where software changed from Waterfall to Agile. And now the craft's coming back on the software side. But still now, software is eating the creative world. Because now a new wave is coming. So, speak to that, because you're, this is, you can almost look at the old ways. You mentioned the commercials and films. Almost like the Waterfall. You know, crafts, craft it up and you ship it. And you hope it works well. >> Ari: Yeah. >> But now, you have this new model of iteration. Where it's more Agile creative. How do you do Agile, like your artist, and not lose the craft? >> Yeah, well it's a challenge. Look, I've had so many opportunities in our 10 plus year career to kind of go in that direction of just like quantity over quality. And we could just never do it. I mean we're just not cut out for it. But at the same time, I'm not, I never ignore, how to optimize the content based on data, and based on what the landscape is looking like. So, an important thing for example that we consider in every project is context. Like what, how is this project going to be released? Oh, it turns out that, it's really a big social media push. It's not a TV thing. Or it turns out specifically it's Facebook versus Instagram. And that's a very different type of edit. And a very different type of way you start the video. 'Cause you've got a certain, even a different format, and a different way of looking at the content. So, you start to get into, and then you start to iterate, and look at the different ways in which you can repurpose, and rerelease the content, but customize it for each thing. So, you get into this really interesting place where the data is driving the story. And the feedback is driving the story. >> And the audience is part of the journey. >> Yes. And the comments, and the way in which people are taking the thing that you've made and re-interpreting it, is really interesting. And part of the story. >> You trigger a lot of emotion with me, when we're talking, because, you know, as an entrepreneur, I started media businesses turning into, and no-one has even seen this kind of media business before. But I have no media training of any kind. I did a science major. So, there's certain, and I've observed that there's dogma in the journalism business. And there's, but you know, how dare I challenge that, or others. You're doing the same thing. >> I love that by the way. >> So, I want to ask you. What is the dogma with the old world, 'cause the naysayers are usually the ones with the dogma. "Oh, it will never work!" >> Ari: Yeah. >> So, you're on the front end of this new trend. But you're going to have a visibility into what they're thinking, what is that? >> The dogma is, you know, the whole like, there's only big name directors, and you know, it's a certain caliber of work. And that craft is the ultimate thing. And that you just have to make the thing great. And it'll do the thing that is needs to do. Without any thinking in terms of context, or media buyer. How it can actually become a social, socially engaged piece. So, the thing that we're always fighting is some version of that. And then because we came from a scrappy place, but we're now, you know, a pretty legit thing, I think people, some people will still be like, well that's the kind of like, the problem solving sometimes gets interpreted as scrappy. Which is a word I really don't like. And I think-- >> It's a compliment on one hand. >> Yeah. >> But some people look at it as an insult. "Oh, he's just scrappy!" >> Well-- >> "He's not legit!" >> You never want to be the cheap solution. You want to be the solution that people call because nobody else can solve this problem for you. I think we, there's a strand of the company that's like, the kind of like, pick up the phone and we'll figure it out. And, the impossible project that nobody else can do. And then there's another strand where it's just like, you just want to make stuff people actually want to watch. How hard it that? The thing where you could just buy the media, and expect the results is trickier and trickier. >> I mean you could be different, and innovative, but that might not be good. But if you're good doing it, you're differentiated and you're innovating. >> Ari: That's right. >> What's the filmmaking track on that line. Because certainly there's a lot of innovation. And with innovation comes failure. But people are trying to be different. And being different actually is a good thing. What are some of the trends that you're seeing where people are having some success. And where people are stumbling. >> Yeah, that's a good. I mean what I see is, the things that do well take cultural context into account, and again speak to the people in that way. So, it's like a feedback loop that it's creating with its own audience. And we almost always, there's almost always a time in the process when we're dealing with an agency, or a brand where things start to go a little bit like, too, too much, and in that direction that you don't want it to take. Somebody, usually me, or someone will say, "Look, if we make these changes. "Or if we go in this direction. "We won't want to share it. "And if we don't want to share it, "nobody's going to want to share it." So, that becomes a key thing. Whereas before you could sort of away with some of that, now it's like, well, it has to pass this sort of, kind of litmus test in terms of like, are you comfortable with sharing this thing, because it speaks to you or not. >> So, I want to ask you the hard question, we're here at the Intel Tech Lounge, obviously Intel is doing a lot of tech things. They're trying to get all this new tech. And I see it on, whether you watch the NFL playoffs, with, you know, with the camera angles, the games, on basketball games. You see them using the power of technology-- >> We're actually working on an Intel Olympics VR related project that got a little tease ad, CES. So, I can just say that. >> Yeah I know, so what's the tech? What's the cool new game changer in your mind. As a tool that you need to be more successful, and other artists could use? >> Hmmm, well, you tend to, yeah I mean, I think we-- >> John: More horsepower, more compute, more-- >> No, I mean it's really the, What happened with the AR was really interesting, which was, everyone realized, oh, the phone's already in our pocket. While the headset needs to be something that really needs to be standalone. It needs to be $200. You know, like, you sort of, there's different kinds of headsets, of course. They do different kinds of things. But that's an extra hardware. The phone we already have in our pockets. So, everyone's started taking AR seriously. Including the big players. And what that allowed was a, a rethinking of what the possibilities with story would be. So, in some ways this last year has been a readjustment, and a rethinking of, well, what can you do with the phone that you've already got in your pocket. In terms of expanding the storytelling. Or placing a story in the middle of your living room, you know. A layer, using the phone as a window and a layer. But I'm equally as excited about what's coming in VR, interactive VR, room-scale VR, you know. The project that we have here is an interactive 360 project with a phone. >> What's that called? >> It's called On My Way. And the artist is young Jake. And the original conceit of it, is, it's Jake, there's four Jakes in a car. And every time you move the phone to a different Jake, it changes the Jake. So, as soon as it passes the quadrants. So, the four quadrant it kind of swaps the Jake. And that creates a really fun, and interesting thing. And he actually designed it for the phone, vertical. Because that's the way most people are going to experience it. >> John: That's awesome. >> But it's playing on a headset as well. >> Oh you're definitely a new creative. Love chatting with you. >> Thank you. >> Final, well, I have two questions, first one is, Sundance, what's the story this year? What's your report? If you had to go back and your friend asked you to give him a report, "Hey, what happened Ari, "what's going on at Sundance this year?" >> A combination of really interesting high-end VR projects. Some of them leaning into this kind of like more psychedelic less narrative driven stuff. Which I really like. Kind of like really embracing the fact that it's another world, and taking you there. And then the AR stuff. There's a thing called Tender, Ten Day R. Or Tendar. Which is a play on Tinder, by Tinder Claus. Which is, uses augmented reality, and emotion, and machine learning, everything that you could hope for in a really interesting way. So, that's kind of showing you where it's going. So, I think those two things. >> Psychedelic's interesting. I always, I mean this kind of tangent. But in, I've been seeing on The Cube interviews, I think we're going to have a digital hippy revolution. >> Ari: Definitely! >> And it's coming. I mean you can feel it. It's a different culture. >> When I was looking a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people are scared to, I mean, VR is a really great consciousness expanding way to go to get into other worlds. Without, you know-- >> And will all the crap going on in the world today you can almost look at this as a Sixties like movement in this modern era. Where it could be a major catalyst for massive change. >> Yeah, and there's a piece about, you know, this female shaman that grows through the tribe in Ecuador. And became the first ever female shaman for her tribe. And there's a piece called Chorus that, within it. Which is just super weird and trippy. And almost has no plot, but is amazing. >> All right Ari, you've got to run. Quick soundbite. What are you working on, what's exciting you these days? Share a little bit about what's happening. >> A variety of, again it's the full spectrum of storytelling, so it's not one thing. It's really pushing, experiential pushing, branded content pushing, original content that we're getting a lot more into that game. Long form series. VR series. Really, that's kind of the next wave for the company is to set foot, much stronger in the original space, and create our own original IP. Our own original content. >> Awesome, Ari Kuschnir managing partner and founder of Missing Pieces, check them out. Lot of great work. And again, it's a whole new game changing, from storytelling to the tech. The collision between technology and artistry, and creative, and it's happening. It's here at Sundance, at the Intel Tech Lounge. I'm John Furrier with The Cube conversation here at Sundance, which is part of our coverage. Was to look at the angle of Sundance 2018. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017 brought to you by Samsung. >> Welcome back, we're live here in San Francisco. We're here at the SDC, the Samsung Developer Conference. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE and co-host of theCUBE. My next guest, Lisa Fetterman, who is of Nomiku and she's a three-time, triple-star winner, Forbes Under 30- >> Inc 30 Under 30, and Zagat 30 under 30. That's a weird one. >> That's a great one. You're likely to get the Michelin Star soon. Tell us about your company. It's a really super story here. You have this new device you guys started. Tell the story. >> Well, speaking of Michelin Stars, I used to work under the best chefs in the nation. I worked under my Mario Batali, Jean-Georges at the three Michelin Star restaurants and I saw this huge, hulking piece of laboratory equipment. We would cook so many of our components in it and I'd lusted after one for myself, but they were $2000 and up, so that was like you know what, I'm going to save up money and then I went on a date with a plasma physicist and he said, "Hey, you know what, "we could just make it on our own." We run to the hardware store, we make a prototype. We travel all across the United States and teach people how to make their own DIY open-source sous vide kits to the point where we amassed so much attention that Obama invited us to the White House. And then we put it on Kickstarter and it becomes the #1 most-funded project in our category, and we are here today with our connected home sous vide immersion circulator that interacts with Samsung's Smart Fridge. >> That's a fantastic story of all in a very short time. Well done, so let me just back up. You guys have the consumer device that all the top chef's have. >> That's right. >> That's the key thing, right? >> It's consumable, low-priced, what's the price point? >> We do hardware, software, and goods. Right now the price of our machine is $49 on souschef.nomiku.com because it interacts with the food program. So there's food that comes with the machine. You weigh the food in front of the machine. It automatically recognizes the time and temperature. It interacts with different time and temperatures of different bags of food, and you just drop it in. In 30 minutes, you have a gourmet chef-prepared meal just the way that we would do it in Michelin Star restaurants. >> And now you're connecting it to Samsung, so they have this SmartThings Messaging. That's kind of the marketing, SmartCloud, SmartThings. What does that mean, like it's connected to the wifi, does it connect to an app? Take us through how it connects to the home. >> We're connected through Family Hub, which is the system inside of the Samsung Smart Fridge. Every single Samsung Smart Fridge ships with a Nomiku app pre-downloaded inside of it and the fridge and the Nomiku talk to each other so there's inventory management potential. There's learning consumer behaviors to help them. Let's say you cook a piece of chicken at 4:00 AM. You go to a subset of people who also do that, like wow, and then we recognize that those folks do CrossFit. They will eat again at 7:00 AM because they eat more little meals rather than full meals, and then we can recommend things for them as their day goes along, and help manage things for them, like a personal assistant. >> So it's like a supply chain of your personal refrigerator. So can you tell if the chicken's going to go bad so you cook the chicken now, kind of thing? That would be helpful. >> You can actually tell if the chicken's going to go bad. If the chicken, if there's a recall or the chicken's expired and you tap it with the machine, the machine will tell you to throw it out. >> So tell us about some of the travel's you've been under. You said you've traveled the world. You also have done a lot of writing, best-selling author. Tell us about your books and what you're writing about. >> I wrote the book called Sous Vide at Home. It's an international best-seller and it's sous vide recipes. Everybody has been lusting after sous vide since we invented the technology in 2012, so much actually that the market for it grows 2.5x every single year so the adoption rate is insane. The adoption rate for sous vide actually has surpassed that of the internet, the cell phone, and the personal computer. >> Why is the excitement on the Kickstarter, obviously, the record-breaking, and the sales, and the trend, why is it so popular? Is it 'cause it's a convenience? Is it the ease of use, all of the above? What's the main driver? >> All of the above. If you ever cooked in the kitchen and you've lost your confidence, it was mostly because you messed something up in the kitchen. This is foolproof cooking. So at 57 degrees Celsius, that's when the fat and the collagen melt into the muscle of steak, making each bite so juicy, tender, and delicious. We can set it at exactly that magic temperature, drop a steak in, and then put it in the water. When you cook it like that, there's no overcooking the muscle and it becomes effectively marbled by all that juicy, fat deliciousness. >> Aw, I'm kind of hungry already. >> Yeah. >> Lenny wants a steak. I can hear Leonard moaning over there. Okay, let's get down to the science here because a lot of people might not understand what temperatures to cook anything. Do you guys provide some best practices because this is a game-changer for my family of four. >> We want to meal cooked fast, but you want to have meals staged potentially and then recook them. How does someone use it? Is there a playbook? Is there a cookbook? >> Like we say in the industry, there's an app for that. The app is on the Smart Fridge and it's also on your smartphones. Moreover, so the machine acts as a stand-alone sous vide machine for you to cook your own recipes, and it also reads rfid tags from our meals. If you use our meals, then it's a no-brainer. You just tap and then put in the water. There's nothing more. Actually people get flustered that it's so easy. They're like, "That's it? "That was all that was?" But I hate smart devices that actually make people stupider. Being a stand-alone sous vide machine, you can create any of your recipes whether it's from my cookbook, the app, which is community-focused, so we have over 1000 recipes inside there from our community. People make it and they share it with the world. >> So with the Kickstarter, I'm just going to ask that next question. I'll say community layer. >> Sure. Kind of like is it a Reddit page? Do you have your own pages? What's going on with the community? Tell us about the community. >> Oh, the community. Everybody who has an OmniCube downloads our app called Tender and inside you can make your own-- >> Not to be confused with Tinder. >> Correct. >> Tender. >> Although I wouldn't mind if you confused it and instead of going out, I guess you're making dinner. >> Wife left for the steak and right for the chicken. >> (laughing) Exactly, exactly. We love the play on the word. >> That's great. >> When you make your own little profile, it encourages you to share. It's really fun because you can keep your recipes in there so you never have to look it up ever again. You can bing it and it goes directly to your machine. It's great for professional chefs, too 'cause you can share it with your entire team. >> So maybe we should start a Cube food channel. You can get a dedicated recipe channel. Exciting. >> That's great. Will you be my sous chef? >> (laughing) Course, I'm a great guest to have do that. If I can do it, anyone can do it. How do I get one? How do people buy? What's the deal? >> It's namiku.com for just our hardware, and in California, we've launched our food program on souschef.nomiku.com. Right now our machines for the food program are only $49. That is such a great value considering that souv vide machines are usually $200 and up right now. >> Awesome, well thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Lisa Fetterman is CEO, entrepreneur of Namiku, entrepreneur of great stuff here in the Cube. Of course, we're bringing the food, tech, and remember, farming tech is big, too, so as the culture gets connected, the food from the farm to the table is being changed with data and IT. More after this short break. (innovative tones)

Zay California in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's the cube covering Hadoop summit 2016 brought to you by Hortonworks. Here's your host, John furrier. >>Okay, we'll come back here and we are here live in Silicon Valley for the cube. This is our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the cylinders. Of course. We're here at the big data event. Hadoop summit 2016 have a special guest celebrity now, author of the bestselling book magical at Virginia Heffernan magic and loss rising on the bestseller lists. Welcome to the cube. Thanks in our show, you are my internet friend and now you're my real life friend. You're my favorite Facebook friend that I just now met for the first time. Great to meet you. We had never met and now we, but we know each other of course intimately through the interwebs. So I've been following your writing your time. Send you do some stuff on medium and then you, you kind of advertise. You're doing this book. I saw you do the Google glasses experiment in. >>It was Brooklyn and it might, it was so into Google glass and I will admit it, I fought for everything. I fell for VR and all its incarnations and um, and the Google last year, it was like that thing that was supposed to put the internet all voice activated, just put the internet always in front of your face. So I started to wear it around in Brooklyn, my prototype. I thought everyone would stop me and say how cool it was. In fact they didn't think it was pull it off new Yorkers. That's how you would, how they really feel. Got a problem with that. Um, your book magic and loss is fantastic and I think it really is good because uh, Dan Lyons wrote, disrupted, loved, which was fantastic. Dan lies big fan of him and his work, but it really, it wasn't a parody of civil rights for Silicon Valley. >>The show that's kinda taken that culture and made it mainstream. I had people call me up and say, Hey, you live in Callow Alto. My God, do you live near the house? Something like it's on Newell, which is one of my cross streets. But the point is tech culture now is kind of in a native, my youngest is 13 and you know, we're in an iPad generation for the youth and we're from the generation where there was no cell phones. And Mike, I remember when pages were the big innovation and internet. But I think, I think when I'm telling you, I think, I know I'm talking to a fellow traveler when I say that there was digital culture before the advent of the worldwide web in the early nineties you know, I, I'm sure you did too. Got electronic games like crazy. I would get any Merlin or Simon or whatever that they, they introduced. >>And then I also dialed into a mainframe in the late seventies and the early eighties to play the computer as we call it. We didn't even call it the internet. And the thing about the culture too was email was very, you know, monochrome screens, but again, clunky but still connected. Right? So we were that generation of, you know, putting that first training wheels on and now exposed to you. So in the book, your premise is, um, there's magical things happening in the internet and art countering the whole trolling. Uh, yeah, the Internet's bad. And we know recently someone asked me, how can the internet be art when Twitter is so angry? What do you think art is? You know, this is an art. Art is emotional. Artists know powerful >>emotions represented in tranquility and this is, you know, what you see on the internet all the time. Of course the aid of course are human. It needs a place to live and call it Twitter. For now it used to be YouTube comments. So, but we are always taking the measure of something we've lost. Um, I get the word loss from lossy compression, you know, the engineering term that, how does, how MP3 takes that big broad music signal and flattens it out. And something about listening to music on MP3, at least for me, made me feel a sense that I was grieving for something. It was missing something from my analog life. On the other hand, more than counterbalanced by the magic that I think we all experienced on the internet. We wouldn't have a friendship if it weren't for social media and all kinds of other things. And strange serendipity happens not to mention artistic expression in the form of photography, film, design of poetry and music, which are the five chapters of the book. >>So the book is fantastic. The convergence and connection of people, concepts, life with the internet digitally is interesting, right? So there's some laws with the MP3. Great example, but have you found post book new examples? I'm sure the internet culture, geese like Mia, like wow, this is so awesome. There's a cultural aspect of it is the digital experience and we see it on dating sites. Obviously you see, you know Snapchat, you know, dating sites like Tinder and other hookups apps and the real estate, everything being Uberized. What's the new things that you've, that's coming out and you must have some >>well this may be controversial, but one thing I see happening is anti digital culture. Partly as an epi phenomenon of side effect of digitization. We have a whole world of people who really want to immerse themselves in things like live music maker culture, things made by hand, vinyl records, vinyl records, which are selling more than ever in the days of the rolling stones. Gimme shelter less they sold less than than they do now. The rolling stones makes $1 billion touring a year. Would we ever have thought that in the, in the, you know, at the Genesis of the iPod when it seemed like, you know, recorded music represented music in that MP3 thing that floated through our, our phones was all we needed. No, we want to look in the faces of the rolling stones, get as close as we can to the way the music is actually made and you know, almost defiantly, and this is how the culture works. This is how youth culture works. Um, reject, create experiences that cannot be digitized. >>This is really more of a counter culture movement on the overt saturation of digital. >>Yes. Yes. You see the first people to scale down from, you know, high powered iPhones, um, when we're youth going to flip phones. You know, it's like the greatest like greatest punk, punk, punk tech. Exactly. It's like, yeah, I'm going to use these instruments, but like if I break a string, who cares on a PDs? The simplest one, right? >>My mom made me use my iPhone. Are we going to, how are we going to have that? it'd >>be like, Oh, look at you with your basic iPhone over there. And I've got my just like hack down, downscale, whatever. And you know what, I don't spend the weekends, don't pick up my phone on the weekends. But you know, there are interesting markets there. And interesting. I mean, for instance, the, you know, the live phenomenon, I know that, you know, there's this new company by one of the founders of Netflix movie pass, which um, for a $30 subscription you've seen movies in the theater as much as you want and the theaters are beautiful. And what instead of Netflix and chill, you know, the, the, the contemporary, you know, standard date, it's dinner and movie. You're out again. You're eating food, which can't be digitized with in-company, which can't be digitized. And then sitting in a theater, you know, a public experience, which is, um, a pretty extraordinary way that the culture and business pushes back on digital. >>Remember I was a comma on my undergraduate days in computer science in the 80s. And before when it was nerdy and eh, and there was a sociology class at Hubba computers and social change. And the big thing was we're going to lose social interactions because of email. And if you think about what you're talking about here is that the face to face presence, commitment of being with somebody right now is a scarce resource. You have an abundance of connections. >>I mean, take the fact what has happened is digital culture has jacked up the value of undigital culture. So for instance, you know, I've, I've met on Facebook, we talk on Facebook messenger, we notice that we're, you know, like kindred spirits in a certain way and we like each other's posts and so forth. Then we have an, a more extensive talk in messenger when we meet in person for the first time. Both of us are East coast people, but we hugged tele because it's like, Oh wow, like you in the flesh. You know it's something exciting. >>Connection virtually. That's right. There's a synchronous connection presence, but we're not really, we haven't met face to face. >>Yeah, there's this great as a great little experiment going on, set group of kids and Silicon Valley have decided they're too addicted to their phones and Facebook. Now I am not recommending for your viewers and listeners that anybody do what these kids sounds good, are ready. Go. Hey, all right, so what they do is take an LSD breakfast. Now I don't take drugs. I think you can do this without the LSD, but they put a little bit of a hallucinogen under their skin in the morning and what they find is they lost interest in the boring interface in their phones because people on the bus suddenly looked so fascinating to them. The human face is an ratable interface. It can't be reproduced anywhere, Steve. You know, Johnny ive can't make it. They can't make it at Google. And that I think is something we will see young markets doing, which is this renewed appreciation for nature and analog for humans and for analog culture. >>That's right. The Navy is going to sextants and compasses. You may have seen training, they're training sailors on those devices because of the fear that GPS might be hacked. So you know, the young kids probably don't even know what a cup is is, well, I bought myself a compass recently because I suddenly was like, you know, we talk a lot about digital technology, but what the heck, this thing you can point toward the poles, right in my hands. You know, I was suddenly like, we are this floating ball with these poles with different magnetic charges. And I think it's time. I appreciate it. >>Okay, so I've got to ask the, um, the, the feedback that you've gotten from the book, um, again, we hear that every Geneva magic and loss, great, great book. Go by. It's fantastic and open your mind up. It's a, it's a thought provoking, but really specific good use cases. I got a think that, you know, when you talk at Google and when you talk to some of the groups that you're talking to, certainly book clubs and other online that there must be like, Oh my God, you hit the cultural nerve. What have you heard from some of these, um, folks from my age 50 down to the 20 something year olds? Have you had any aha moments where you said, Oh my God, I hit a nerve here. >>Did not want to, I mean, I didn't want to write one of those books. That's like the one thing you need to know to get your startup to succeed or whatever. You know, I was at the airport and every single one of them is like, pop the only thing you need to do to save this or whatever. And they, they do take a very short view. Now if you're thinking about, you know, whether if you're thinking about your quarterly return or your, you know, what you're going to do this quarter and when you're going to be profitable or user acquisition, those books are good manuals. But if you're going to buy a hardcover book and you're going to really invest in reading every page, not just the bolded part, not just the put, you know, the two points that you have to know. I really wanted readers and at what I had found on the internet, people like you, we have an interest in a long view. You know what, I need a really long view >>in a prose that's not for listicle or you know, shorts. It's like it's just a thought provoker but somebody can go, Hey, you know, at the beach on the weekend say, Hey wow, this is really cool. What F you know, we went analog for awhile or what if, what's best for my kids to let my kids play multiplayer games more Zika simulate life. That was my, so these are the kinds of questions that the digital parents are asked. >>Yeah. So you know, like let's take the parents question, which is, is, you know, a, surprisingly to me it's a surprisingly pressing question. I am a parent, but my kids' digital habits are not, you know, of obsessive interest to me. Sometimes I think the worry about our kids is a proxy for how we worry about ourselves. You know, it's funny because they're the, you know, the model of the parent saying my kid has attention deficit order, zero order. My kid has attention deficit disorder. The kids over here, the parents here, you know, who has the attention deficit disorder. But in any case I have realized that parents are talking about uh, computers on the internet as though something kids have to have a very ambivalent relationship with and a very wary relationship with. So limit the time, and it sounds a little bit like the abstinence movement around sexuality that like, you know, you only dip in, it's very, you know, they're only date, right, right, right. >>Instead of joining sides with their kids and helping to create a durable, powerful, interesting online avatar, which is what kids want to do. And it's also what we want to do. So like in your Facebook profile, there are all kinds of strategic groups you can make as a creator of that profile. We know it as adults. Like, do you, some people put up pictures of their kids, some people don't vacation pictures. Some people promote the heck out of themselves. Some people don't do so much of that. Um, do you put up a lot of photographs? Do whatever. Those are the decisions we started to make when went on Facebook at kitchen making the two small armor to have on their gaming profile. That's kind of how they want to play, you know, play for you, going to wear feathers. These are important things. Um, but the uh, you know, small questions like talking to your kids and I don't mean a touchy feely conversation, but literally during the write in all lower case commit, you know, Brighton, all lower case, you're cute and you're this and that means a certain thing and you should get it and you're going to write in all caps and you're going to talk about white nationalist ideology. >>Well that also has a set of consequences. What have you learned in terms of the virtual space? Actually augmented reality, virtual reality, these promise to be virtual spaces. What, what is one of them? They always hope to replicate the real world. The mean, yes. Will there be any parallels of the kind of commitment in the moment? Gives you one thing. I say kids that, you know, the subtitle of the book is the internet as art, magic and loss. The internet is art and the kind of art, the internet is, is what I think of as real estate art. It purports to be reality. You know, every technology pick a photography film says or think of even the introduction of a third dimension in painting, you know, in Renaissance painting perspective for ports to represent reality better than it's been represented before. And if you're right in sync with the technology, you're typically fooled by it. >>I mean, this is a seductive representation of reality. You know, people watching us now believe they're seeing us flush of let us talk. You know, they don't think they're seeing pixels that are designed in certain ways and certainly it's your ways. So trying to sort out the incredibly interesting immersive, artful experience of being online that has some dangers and has some emotions to do it from real life is a really important thing. And you know, for us to learn first and then a model for our kids. So I had a horrible day on Twitter one day, eight 2012 213 worst day ever on Twitter. It was a great day for me. I spent the day at the beach, my Twitter avatar took sniper fire for me all day. People called her an idiot separated amount. I separated them out. And anyone who like likes roleplay and games knows that like I'm not a high priestess in Dentons and dragons. >>You know, I'm a much smaller person than that. And in, in, you know, in the case of this Twitter battle, I'm a less embattled person than the one that takes your armor from me on Twitter. That's my art. Your armor. So let's talk about poetry. Twitter, you mentioned poetry, Twitter, 140 characters. I did 40 characters is a lot. If like a lot of internet users your to have pictographic language like Chinese. So 140 characters is a novel by, well not a novel, but it's a short story for, you know, a writer of short form, short form Chinese aphorisms like Confucius. So one of the things I wanted to say is there's nothing about it being short that makes it low culture. You know, there's, I mean it takes a second to take, to take an a sculpture or to take an a painting and yet like the amount of craft that went into that might be much more good tweeting and you're excellent at it, um, is not easy. You know, I know that times I've been like, I tagged the wrong person and then I have to delete it. Like, because the name didn't come up or you know, I get the hashtags wrong and then I'm like, Oh, it would have been better this other way or I don't have a smart enough interject >>it's like playing sports. Twitter's like, you know, firing under the tennis ball baseline rallies with people. I mean, it's like, it's like there's a cultural thing. And this is the thing that I love about your book is you really bring in the metaphors around art and the cultural aspect. Have you had any, have you found that there's one art period that we represent right now? That it could be a comparison? >>I mean, you know, it's always tempting to care everything to the Renaissance. But you know, obviously in the Italian Renaissance there was so much technological innovation and so much, um, and so much, uh, so much artistic innovation. But, um, you know, the other thing are the Dawn of it's might be bigger than that, which it sounds grounds grandiose, but we're talking about something that nearly 6 billion people use and have access to. So we're talking about something bigger than we've ever seen is the Donovan civilization. So like, we pay a lot of attention to the Aqua docks and Rome and, and you know, later pay to touch it to the frescoes. I attend in this book to the frescoes, to the sculpture, to the music, to the art. So instead of talking about frescoes as an art historian, might I talk about Instagram? Yeah. >>And you, and this thing's all weave together cause we can back to the global fabric. If you look at the civilization as you know you're not to use the world is flat kind of metaphor. But that book kind of brings out that notion of okay if you just say a one global fabric, yes you have poetry, you have photography of soiling with a Johnny Susana ad in London. He says, you know, cricket is a sport in England, a bug and a delicacy depending on where in the world you are. >>Love that is that, I wonder if that's the HSBC had time to actually a beautiful HSBC job has done a beautiful campaign. I should find out who did it about perspective. And that is also a wonderful way to think about the internet because you know, I know a lot of people who don't like Twitter, who don't like YouTube comments. I do like them because I am perpetually surprised at what people bring to their interpretation. Insights in the comments can be revealing. You know, you know, you don't wanna get your feelings hurt. Sometimes you don't want that much exposure to the micro flora and fauna of ideas that could be frightening. But you know, when you're up for it, it's a really nice test of your immune system, you know. All right. So what's next for you? Virginia Heffernan magic and last great book. I think I will continue to write the tech criticism, which is just this growing field. I at Sarah Watson had a wonderful piece today in the Columbia journalism review about how we really need to bring all our faculties to treat, treating to tech criticism meant and treating tech with, um, with Karen, with proper off. Um, and the next book is on anti digital culture. Um, I will continue writing journalism and you'll see little previews of that book in the next work. >>Super inspirational. And I think the culture needs this kind of rallying cry because you know, there is art and science and all this beautiful beauty in the internet and it's not about mutually exclusive analog world. You can look and take, can come offline. So it's interesting case study of this, this revolution I think, and I think the counter culture, if you'd go back and Southern John Markoff about this, when he wrote his first book, the Dormouse wander about the counter culture in Silicon Valley is what's your grade book? And counter cultures usually create a another wave of innovation. So the question that comes out of this one is there could, this could be a seminal moment in history. I mean, I think it absolutely is. You know, in some ways, every moment is a great moment if you know what to make of it. But I am just tired of people telling us that we're ruining our brands and that this is the end of innovation and that we're at some low period. >>I think we will look back and think of this as an incredibly fertile time for our imaginations. If we don't lose hope, if we keep our creativity fired and if we commit to this incredible period we're in Virginia. Thanks for spending the time here in the queue. Really appreciate where you're live at. Silicon Valley is the cube with author Virginia Heffernan magic. And loss. Great book. Get it. If you don't have it, hard copies still available, get it. We'll be right back with more live coverage here. This is the cube. I'm John furry right back with more if the short break.