>>Good evening, brilliant humans. My name is Savannah Peterson and very delighted to be streaming to you. Live from the Cube Studios here in Motor City, Michigan. I've got John Furrier on my left. John, this is our last interview of the day. Energy just seems to keep oozing. How >>You doing? Take two, Three days of coverage, the queue love segments. This one's great cuz we have a practitioner who's implementing all the hard core talks to be awesome. Can't wait to get into it. >>Yeah, I'm very excited for this one. If it's not very clear, we are a community focused community is a huge theme here at the show at Cape Con. And our next guests are actually a provider and a customer. Turning it over to you. Lisa and Jake, welcome to the show. >>Thank you so much for having us. >>It's great to be here. It is our pleasure. Lisa, you're with Cockroach. Just in case the audience isn't familiar, give us a quick little sound bite. >>We're a distributed sequel database. Highly scalable, reliable. The database you can't kill, right? We will survive the apocalypse. So very resilient. Our customers, mostly retail, FinTech game meet online gambling. They, they, they need that resiliency, they need that scalability. So the indestructible database is the elevator pitch >>And the success has been very well documented. Valuation obviously is a scorp guard, but huge customers. We were at the Escape 19. Just for the record, the first ever multi-cloud conference hasn't come back baby. Love it. It'll come back soon. >>Yeah, well we did a similar version of it just a month ago and I was, that was before Cockroach. I was a different company there talking a lot about multi-cloud. So, but I'm, I've been a car a couple of years now and I run community, I run developer relations. I'm still also a CNCF ambassador, so I lead community as well. I still run a really large user group in the San Francisco Bay area. So we've just >>Been in >>Community, take through the use case. Jake's story set us up. >>Well I would like Jake to take him through the use case and Cockroach is a part of it, but what they've built is amazing. And also Jake's history is amazing. So you can start Jake, >>Wherever you take >>Your Yeah, sure. I'm Jake, I'm CEO and co-founder of Offset. Oted is the commercial entity behind Spice Dvy and Spice Dvy is a permission service. Cool. So a permission service is something that lets developers and let's platform teams really unlock the full potential of their applications. So a lot of people get stuck on My R back isn't flexible enough. How do I do these fine grain things? How do I do these complex sharing workflows that my product manager thinks is so important? And so our service enables those platform teams and developers to do those kinds of things. >>What's your, what's your infrastructure? What's your setup look like? What, how are you guys looking like on the back end? >>Sure. Yeah. So we're obviously built on top of Kubernetes as well. One of the reasons that we're here. So we use Kubernetes, we use Kubernetes operators to orchestrate everything. And then we use, use Cockroach TV as our production data store, our production backend data store. >>So I'm curious, cause I love when these little matchmakers come together. You said you've now been presenting on a little bit of a road show, which is very exciting. Lisa, how are you and the team surfacing stories like Jakes, >>Well, I mean any, any place we can obviously all the social medias, all the blogs, How >>Are you finding it though? >>How, how did you Oh, like from our customers? Yeah, we have an open source version so people start to use us a long time before we even sometimes know about them. And then they'll come to us and they'll be like, I love Cockroach, and like, tell me about it. Like, tell me what you build and if it's interesting, you know, we'll we'll try to give it some light. And it's always interesting to me what people do with it because it's an interesting technology. I like what they've done with it. I mean the, the fact that it's globally distributed, right? That was like a really important thing to you. Totally. >>Yeah. We're also long term fans of Cockroach, so we actually all work together out of Workbench, which was a co-working space and investor in New York City. So yeah, we go way back. We knew the founders. I, I'm constantly saying like if I could have invested early in cockroach, that would've been the easiest check I could have ever signed. >>Yeah, that's awesome. And then we've been following that too and you guys are now using them, but folks that are out there looking to have the, the same challenges, what are the big challenges on selecting the database? I mean, as you know, the history of Cockroach and you're originating the story, folks out there might not know and they're also gonna choose a database. What's the, what's the big challenge that they can solve that that kind of comes together? What, what would you describe that? >>Sure. So we're, as I said, we're a permission service and per the data that you store in a permission service is incredibly sensitive. You need it to be around, right? You need it to be available. If the permission service goes down, almost everything else goes down because it's all calling into the permission service. Is this user allowed to do this? Are they allowed to do that? And if we can't answer those questions, then our customer is down, right? So when we're looking at a database, we're looking for reliability, we're looking for durability, disaster recovery, and then permission services are one of the only services that you usually don't shard geographically. So if you look at like AWS's iam, that's a global service, even though the individual things that they run are actually sharded by region. So we also needed a globally distributed database with all of those other properties. So that's what led us >>To, this is a huge topic. So man, we've been talking about all week the cloud is essentially distributed database at this point and it's distributed system. So distributed database is a hot topic, totally not really well reported. A lot of people talking about it, but how would you describe this distributed trend that's going on? What are the key reasons that they're driving it? What's making this more important than ever in your mind, in your opinion? >>I mean, for our use case, it was just a hard requirement, right? We had to be able to have this global service. But I think just for general use cases, a distributed database, distributed database has that like shared nothing architecture that allows you to kind of keep it running and horizontally scale it. And as your requirements and as your applications needs change, you can just keep adding on capacity and keep adding on reliability and availability. >>I'd love to get both of your opinion. You've been talking about the, the, the, the phases of customers, the advanced got Kubernetes going crazy distributed, super alpha geek. Then you got the, the people who are building now, then you got the lagers who are coming online. Where do you guys see the market now in terms of, I know the Alphas are all building all the great stuff and you guys had great success with all the top logos and they're all doing hardcore stuff. As the mainstream enterprise comes in, where's their psychology, what's on their mind? What's, you share any insight into your perspective on that? Because we're seeing a lot more of it folks becoming like real cloud players. >>Yeah, I feel like in mainstream enterprise hasn't been lagging as much as people think. You know, certainly there's been pockets in big enterprises that have been looking at this and as distributed sequel, it gives you that scalability that it's absolutely essential for big enterprises. But also it gives you the, the multi-region, you know, the, you have to be globally distributed. And for us, for enterprises, you know, you need your data near where the users are. I know this is hugely important to you as well. So you have to be able to have a multi-region functionality and that's one thing that distributed SQL lets you build and that what we built into our product. And I know that's one of the things you like too. >>Yeah, well we're a brand new product. I mean we only founded the company two years ago, but we're actually getting inbound interest from big enterprises because we solve the kinds of challenges that they have and whether, I mean, most of them already do have a cockroach footprint, but whether they did or didn't, once they need to bring in our product, they're going to be adopting cockroach transitively anyway. >>So, So you're built on top of Cockroach, right? And Spice dv, is that open source or? >>It >>Is, yep. Okay. And explain the role of open source and your business model. Can you take a minute to talk about the relevance of that? >>Yeah, open source is key. My background is, before this I was at Red Hat. Before that we were at CoreOS, so CoreOS acquisition and before that, >>One of the best acquisitions that ever happened for the value. That was a great, great team. Yeah, >>We, we, we had fun and before that we built Qua. So my co-founders and I, we built Quay, which is a, a first private docker registry. So CoreOS and, and all of those things are all open source or deeply open source. So it's just in our dna. We also see it as part of our go-to market motion. So if you are a database, a lot of people won't even consider what you're doing without being open source. Cuz they say, I don't want to take a, I don't want to, I don't want to end up in an Oracle situation >>Again. Yeah, Oracle meaning they go, you get you locked in, get you in a headlock, Increase prices. >>Yeah. Oh yeah, >>Can, can >>I got triggered. >>You need to talk about your PTSD there >>Or what. >>I mean we have 20,000 stars on GitHub because we've been open and transparent from the beginning. >>Yeah. And it >>Well, and both of your projects were started based on Google Papers, >>Right? >>That is true. Yep. And that's actually, so we're based off of the Google Zans of our paper. And as you know, Cockroach is based off of the Google Span paper and in the the Zanzibar paper, they have this globally distributed database that they're built on top of. And so when I said we're gonna go and we're gonna make a company around the Zabar paper, people would go, Well, what are you gonna do for Span? And I was like, Easy cockroach, they've got us covered. >>Yeah, I know the guys and my friends. Yeah. So the question is why didn't you get into the first round of Cockroach? She said don't answer that. >>The question he did answer though was one of those age old arguments in our community about pronunciation. We used to argue about Quay, I always called it Key of course. And the co-founder obviously knows how it's pronounced, you know, it's the et cd argument, it's the co cuddl versus the control versus coo, CTL Quay from the co-founder. That is end of argument. You heard it here first >>And we're keeping it going with Osted. So awesome. A lot of people will say Zeed or, you know, so we, we just like to have a little ambiguity >>In the, you gotta have some semantic arguments, arm wrestling here. I mean, it keeps, it keeps everyone entertained, especially on the over the weekend. What's, what's next? You got obviously Kubernetes in there. Can you explain the relationship between Kubernetes, how you're handling Spice dv? What, what does the Kubernetes piece fit in and where, where is that going to be going? >>Yeah, great question. Our flagship product right now is a dedicated, and in a dedicated, what we're doing is we're spinning up a single tenant Kubernetes cluster. We're installing all of our operator suite, and then we're installing the application and running it in a single tenant fashion for our customers in the same region, in the same data center where they're running their applications to minimize latency. Because of this, as an authorization service, latency gets passed on directly to the end user. So everybody's trying to squeeze the latency down as far as they can. And our strategy is to just run these single tenant stacks for people with the minimal latency that we can and give them a VPC dedicated link very similar to what Cockroach does in their dedicated >>Product. And the distributed architecture makes that possible because it's lighter way, it's not as heavy. Is that one of the reasons? >>Yep. And Kubernetes really gives us sort of like a, a level playing field where we can say, we're going going to take the provider, the cloud providers Kubernetes offering, normalize it, lay down our operators, and then use that as the base for delivering >>Our application. You know, Jake, you made me think of something I wanted to bring up with other guests, but now since you're here, you're an expert, I wanna bring that up, but talk about Super Cloud. We, we coined that term, but it's kind of multi-cloud, is that having workloads on multiple clouds is hard. I mean there are, they are, there are workloads on, on clouds, but the complexity of one clouds, let's take aws, they got availability zones, they got regions, you got now data issues in each one being global, not that easy on one cloud, nevermind all clouds. Can you share your thoughts on how you see that progression? Because when you start getting, as its distributed database, a lot of good things might come up that could fit into solving the complexity of global workloads. Could you share your thoughts on or scoping that problem space of, of geography? Yeah, because you mentioned latency, like that's huge. What are some of the other challenges that other people have with mobile? >>Yeah, absolutely. When you have a service like ours where the data is small, but very critical, you can get a vendor like Cockroach to step in and to fill that gap and to give you that globally distributed database that you can call into and retrieve the data. I think the trickier issues come up when you have larger data, you have huge binary blobs. So back when we were doing Quay, we wanted to be a global service as well, but we had, you know, terabytes, petabytes of data that we were like, how do we get this replicated everywhere and not go broke? Yeah. So I think those are kind of the interesting issues moving forward is what do you do with like those huge data lakes, the huge amount of data, but for the, the smaller bits, like the things that we can keep in a relational database. Yeah, we're, we're happy that that's quickly becoming a solved >>Problem. And by the way, that that data problem also is compounded when the architecture goes to the edge. >>Totally. >>I mean this is a big issue. >>Exactly. Yeah. Edge is something that we're thinking a lot about too. Yeah, we're lucky that right now the applications that are consuming us are in a data center already. But as they start to move to the edge, we're going to have to move to the edge with them. And it's a story that we're gonna have to figure out. >>All right, so you're a customer cockroach, what's the testimonial if I put you on the spot, say, hey, what's it like working with these guys? You know, what, what's the, what's the, you know, the founders, so you know, you give a good description, little biased, but we'll, we'll we'll hold you on it. >>Yeah. Working with Cockroach has been great. We've had a couple things that we've run into along the way and we've gotten great support from our account managers. They've brought in the right technical expertise when we need it. Cuz what we're doing with Cockroach is not you, you couldn't do it on Postgres, right? So it's not just a simple rip and replace for us, we're using all of the features of Cockroach, right? We're doing as of system time queries, we're doing global replication. We're, you know, we're, we're consuming it all. And so we do need help from them sometimes and they've been great. Yeah. >>And that's natural as they grow their service. I mean the world's changing. >>Well I think one of the important points that you mentioned with multi-cloud, we want you to have the choice. You know, you can run it in in clouds, you can run it hybrid, you can run it OnPrem, you can do whatever you want and it's just, it's one application that you can run in these different data centers. And so really it's up to you how do you want to build your infrastructure? >>And one of the things we've been talking about, the super cloud concept that we've been issue getting a lot of contrary, but, but people are leaning into it is that it's the refactoring and taking advantage of the services. Like what you mentioned about cockroach. People are doing that now on cloud going the lift and shift market kind of had it time now it's like hey, I can start taking advantage of these higher level services or capability of someone else's stack and refactoring it. So I think that's a dynamic that I'm seeing a lot more of. And it sounds like it's working out great in this situation. >>I just came from a talk and I asked them, you know, what don't you wanna put in the cloud and what don't you wanna run in Kubernetes or on containers and good Yeah. And the customers that I was on stage with, one of the guys made a joke and he said I would put my dog in a container room. I could, he was like in the category, which is his right, which he is in the category of like, I'll put everything in containers and these are, you know, including like mis critical apps, heritage apps, since they don't wanna see legacy anymore. Heritage apps, these are huge enterprises and they wanna put everything in the cloud. Everything >>You so want your dog that gets stuck on the airplane when it's on the tarmac. >>Oh >>God, that's, she was the, don't take that analogy. Literally don't think about that. Well that's, >>That's let's not containerize. >>There's always supply chain concern. >>It. So I mean going macro and especially given where we are cncf, it's all about open source. Do y'all think that open source builds a better future? >>Yeah and a better past. I mean this is, so much of this software is founded on open source. I, we wouldn't be here really. I've been in open source community for many, many years so I wouldn't say I'm biased. I would say this is how we build software. I came from like in a high school we're all like, oh let's build a really cool application. Oh you know what? I built this cuz I needed it, but maybe somebody else needs it too. And you put it out there and that is the ethos of Silicon Valley, right? That's where we grew up. So I've always had that mindset, you know, and social coding and why I have three people, right? Working on the same thing when one person you could share it's so inefficient. All of that. Yeah. So I think it's great that people work on what they're really good at. You know, we all, now you need some standardization, you need some kind of control around this whole thing. Sometimes some foundations to, you know, herd the cats. Yeah. But it's, it's great. Which is why I'm a c CF ambassador and I spend a lot of time, you know, in my free time talking about open source. Yeah, yeah. >>It's clear how passionate you are about it. Jake, >>This is my second company that we founded now and I don't think either of them could have existed without the base of open source, right? Like when you look at I have this cool idea for an app or a company and I want to go try it out, the last thing I want to do is go and negotiate with a vendor to get like the core data component. Yeah. To even be able to get to the >>Prototypes. NK too, by the way. Yeah. >>Hey >>Nk >>Or hire, you know, a bunch of PhDs to go and build that core component for me. So yeah, I mean nobody can argue that >>It truly is, I gotta say a best time if you're a developer right now, it's awesome to be a developer right now. It's only gonna get better. As we were riff from the last session about productivity, we believe that if you follow the digital transformation to its conclusion, developers and it aren't a department serving the business, they are the business. And that means they're running the show, which means that now their entire workflow is gonna change. It's gonna be have to be leveraging services partnering. So yeah, open source just fills that. So the more code coming up, it's just no doubt in our mind that that's go, that's happening and will accelerate. So yeah, >>You know, no one company is gonna be able to compete with a community. 50,000 users contributing versus you riding it yourself in your garage with >>Your dogs. Well it's people driven too. It's humans not container. It's humans working together. And here you'll see, I won't say horse training, that's a bad term, but like as projects start to get traction, hey, why don't we come together as, as the world starts to settle and the projects have traction, you start to see visibility into use cases, functionality. Some projects might not be, they have to kind of see more kind >>Of, not every feature is gonna be development. Oh. So I mean, you know, this is why you connect with truly brilliant people who can architect and distribute sequel database. Like who thought of that? It's amazing. It's as, as our friend >>You say, Well let me ask you a question before we wrap up, both by time, what is the secret of Kubernetes success? What made Kubernetes specifically successful? Was it timing? Was it the, the unambitious nature of it, the unification of it? Was it, what was the reason why is Kubernetes successful, right? And why nothing else? >>Well, you know what I'm gonna say? So I'm gonna let Dave >>First don't Jake, you go first. >>Oh boy. If we look at what was happening when Kubernetes first came out, it was, Mesosphere was kind of like the, the big player in the space. I think Kubernetes really, it had the backing from the right companies. It had the, you know, it had the credibility, it was sort of loosely based on Borg, but with the story of like, we've fixed everything that was broken in Borg. Yeah. And it's better now. Yeah. So I think it was just kind and, and obviously people were looking for a solution to this problem as they were going through their containerization journey. And I, yeah, I think it was just right >>Place, the timing consensus of hey, if we just let this happen, something good might come together for everybody. That's the way I felt. I >>Think it was right place, right time, right solution. And then it just kind of exploded when we were at Cores. Alex Povi, our ceo, he heard about Kubernetes and he was like, you know, we, we had a thing called Fleet D or we had a tool called Fleet. And he's like, Nope, we're all in on Kubernetes now. And that was an amazing Yeah, >>I remember that interview. >>I, amazing decision. >>Yeah, >>It's clear we can feel the shift. It's something that's come up a lot this week is is the commitment. Everybody's all in. People are ready for their transformation and Kubernetes is definitely gonna be the orchestrator that we're >>Leveraging. Yeah. And it's an amazing community. But it was, we got lucky that the, the foundational technology, I mean, you know, coming out of Google based on Go conferences, based on Go, it's no to coincidence that this sort of nature of, you know, pods horizontally, scalable, it's all fits together. I does make sense. Yeah. I mean, no offense to Python and some of the other technologies that were built in other languages, but Go is an awesome language. It's so, so innovative. Innovative things you could do with it. >>Awesome. Oh definitely. Jake, I'm very curious since we learned on the way and you are a Detroit native? >>I am. Yep. I grew up in the in Warren, which is just a suburb right outside of Detroit. >>So what does it mean to you as a Michigan born bloke to be here, see your entire community invade? >>It is, I grew up coming to the Detroit Auto Show in this very room >>That brought me to Detroit the first time. Love n a I a s. Been there with our friends at Ford just behind us. >>And it's just so interesting to me to see the accumulation, the accumulation of tech coming to Detroit cuz it's really not something that historically has been a huge presence. And I just love it. I love to see the activity out on the streets. I love to see all the restaurants and coffee shops full of people. Just, I might tear up. >>Well, I was wondering if it would give you a little bit of that hometown pride and also the joy of bringing your community together. I mean, this is merging your two probably most core communities. Yeah, >>Yeah. Your >>Youth and your, and your career. It doesn't get more personal than that really. Right. >>It's just been, it's been really exciting to see the energy. >>Well thanks for going on the queue. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. Thanks >>For having us. Yeah, thank you both so much. Lisa, you were a joy of ball of energy right when you walked up. Jake, what a compelling story. Really appreciate you sharing it with us. John, thanks for the banter and the fabulous questions. I'm >>Glad I could help out. >>Yeah, you do. A lot more than help out sweetheart. And to all of you watching the Cube today, thank you so much for joining us live from Detroit, the Cube Studios. My name is Savannah Peterson and we'll see you for our event wrap up next.

(gentle music) (background chattering) >> Welcome to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm Dave Nicholson, and we are running one of the largest, most important hybrid events in the technology business. We've got two live sets here in Las Vegas, along with our two studios back home. And I'm absolutely delighted to have two fantastic guests with me. I'm joined by Stephen Manley, Chief Technology Officer from Druva. Stephen, welcome. >> Thanks, great to be here. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. >> I know. >> CUBE alumni. >> Love theCUBE. >> Along with Jake Burns, Enterprise Strategist from AWS, which I think stands for Amazon Web Services. >> You are correct, thank you. >> Fantastic, so the first question to you Jake is, well, first welcome, again, enterprise strategist, what does that mean exactly? >> Yeah, so- >> What do you do? (laughing) >> We're a team of former CIOs and CTOs who have all spent most of our time as customers and have all had large-scale success digitally transforming our organizations using the AWS Cloud. And now we work for AWS and we advise and work with some of our largest customers, share what worked for us, what didn't, and help them with the beginning stages of their cloud journey. >> Fantastic. >> And, Dave. Dave, you got to ask him, in the last year how many customers have you met? >> Oh, in the past year, I'm averaging about 150 to 200 different customers per year. >> Nice. >> So in the past three years, it's about 550. >> Nice. So can you remember all their names? Or do you do a lot of, "Hey, buddy. Hey, Sport." >> Jake: It's a lot harder with the masks on. >> Yes. >> But I recognize faces better than I remember the names. >> And Stephen, tell us about Druva. >> Yeah, so Druva, we are a SaaS data protection company. We built the first data resiliency cloud. So think of this as you might have data in endpoints, your data center, in AWS, in SaaS applications, and we're really shifting the discussion from, it's not just about backing it up, it's not just about protecting it anymore. It's about how do you recover it? how do you make sure your data is always on, always available to you? And that's really where we're trying to take the conversation. Is making sure that your data is there when you need it. >> And to be clear, this isn't just about resiliency for data that's in the cloud? This is also- >> Everywhere. >> on-premises? IT as well? >> On-premises, you might have VMs, you might have NAS servers, you might have Oracle databases on-prem, again, you might have endpoints. You might have Salesforce data, all of it. We want to make sure all your data's available to you. >> So let's focus on the relationship between Druva and AWS for a minute. It's always interesting to hear about success stories. Let's talk about inhibitors. What are the things that keep the two of you up at night? What are some of the things that... You talked about former CIOs and CTOs, CTOs like Stephen, you're working with existing CIOs and CTOs in all sorts of organizations, what are the things that are preventing them from leveraging cloud as well as they could be? Stephen, start with you on that. >> Yeah, I'll say the first thing is everybody right now is terrified of Ransomware, right? I met a CIO last night and he said, "My entire agenda for 2021, and now 2022 is security, security, security." And everyone is just searching for solutions to say, "How can I make sure that my environment is secure? How can I make sure my data is secure? Especially from these pretty much ubiquitous Ransomware attacks, because until I get that taken care of, it's really hard for me to get on these cloud transformation journeys." And so a lot of the discussion we have with them is, again, Druva in combination with AWS can actually help solve that Ransomware challenge for you so that instead of thinking it as, "Do one, and then you can do the cloud transformation." Let's put those two together, right? But for me, that's the number one thing, is people are just worried about how they're going to deal with security. >> So they're worried, but Jake, isn't it true, we'll do a little perimysium here. (laughing) Tell me the truth. >> All right. >> Isn't that the case that some people still think that effectively their money is safer under their mattress than in a bank? In other words, "I feel safer with on-prem IT than I do having it in some cloud somewhere." Are we still facing that sort of cultural divide between reality and perception? >> Yeah, there's definitely an education, widespread education effort going on right now. Training and certification, which AWS has a lot of experience with and has fantastic courses I went through when I was a customer, my team went through when we were a customer, we were able to get up-skilled very quickly. That fear of the unknown really the way to solve it is through information, through knowing how the cloud works. And it was so funny, I was just having a conversation right before this with an executive team of one of our largest customers and they were talking about how their CSO was dead set against the cloud and then one day did a complete 180. And we're seeing this all the time. When they realize what the cloud is, all the compliance and controls that we have, all of the redundancy that we have, all the benefits of being in the cloud. Then it seems to be like, there's just a moment where it clicks and then people become strong advocates. So there is still a lot of work to do in that area, but we find that people get it very quickly. >> Yeah, Stephen, you've had a long and illustrious career, I say that seriously. >> Stephen: There you go. >> And so you're living that bridging the divide between the old world of on-premises IT and cloud. What are you seeing in that regard in terms of where people's emotions are? >> Oh yeah, and that transformation that Jake talks about, I see it all the time where I'll sit down with a customer and it is exactly that, "Well, I have this on an appliance and because that appliance is under my control, I feel safer." And then we start talking about what the real threats are, that, let's face it Ransomware can come through your environment and it gets in anywhere and it can spread everywhere. And internal threats, internal bad actors, they can get at your appliances. And it very quickly shifts that conversation from, "Oh my gosh, how am I going to maintain all this? I have to do security patching, and upgrades, and I've got to watch everything." And Druva a sort of sits and says, "One of the great things that we had because we're built natively on AWS, a lot of the problems I worried about back when I built appliances are gone. I don't have to worry about capacity planning because AWS always gives me more. I don't have to worry about provisioning new equipment because it just automatically scales for me. I don't have to worry about a lot of the networking challenges that I used to have to worry about because it's built into the environment." And so a lot of what we talked to them about is, by taking these sort of daily routine things off the table, you can actually focus on the higher level value. You can focus on making your environment more secure because you're not just doing the basic blocking and tackling 'cause that's being done for you. And that really gets people sort of across that chasm. >> So you talk about basic block and tackle, in the keynote today, it was mentioned that there are 475 different types of instances within AWS. That gave me a little jolt to the heart because I was thinking back to Steve Jobs saying, "We can only have three of everything." And so sometimes with choice and with flexibility comes complexity. How does Druva manage the potential complexity that exists in the AWS space? How do you take what's best from AWS and deliver it to Druva customers to achieve what they want to achieve? >> Yeah, I think for us, that's really the benefit of being a SaaS provider is, we've designed a system from the ground up for AWS. And so, whether you're talking about the different storage types, where you've got S3, you've got Glacier, you've got Glacier Deep Archive. You have all the different instance types. You have different container services, ECS, EKS, there's all these choices. And frankly, it's something that we've spent a lot of time working on. And honestly, tons of people like Jake inside of AWS willing to help us. We characterize our workload and then they walk us through what's sort of the best practices so that we can deliver an end to end solution for the customer. So that, for our customers, it's just one simple cost, right? How much data are you storing? That's it, right? All the things happening in the background we take care of. And we take care of because we have AWS helping us design and implement this the best possible way. >> And so Jake, with all of the customer conversations that you've had, I'm sure we can guess what some of the themes have been over the last year or two with the pandemic and with things related to security. What are some of the other conversations that you're having with customers that people might not expect? >> Yeah. >> Based on what's going on? >> I think the biggest thing that would be surprising to most people is that vast majority of our conversations are about culture and about people, not about technology. We've gotten to a point where, and I've said this for a number of years, there's never been a better time to move to cloud, but that just keeps being more and more true as time goes on, as the technology gets more mature and as we have more and more examples of people who are very successful doing it. But like you said earlier, there are still some people who are used to the old way of doing things. So it's really largely an education issue, it's a culture issue. It's getting people to wrap their heads around this new way of doing things. And once they see that they get very excited about it. We very rarely see people who are kind of neutral about it. The very, very beginning stages, sometimes they're fearful. When they learn what it is they get very excited and they get very enthusiastic. And my advice to customers is to get your team excited and enthusiastic as early as possible, and they'll solve all of those process and technology problems very quickly and very easily. >> Now what are you seeing in terms of any skill gaps or skill divides? We, coming from a background where we're bridging the divide between sort of the legacy world and cloud. You have IT practitioners that have been doing this stuff for a long time. >> Right. >> That either need to move into the future or not. >> Right. >> Or you need to hire new people. Are there any challenges there in terms of finding the skill sets you need versus training up existing people? >> Yeah, so this is something I talk about a lot, and you do have a choice between hiring and trying to use the people you have and get them up skilled. I strongly favor the second. For one, it's very difficult to hire for cloud skills because it's in such high demand right now, but you use that to your advantage. And by training your staff, it's one of the kind of carrots you can use to get them excited about it. "You learn this, you will be valuable in the marketplace." And when you frame it that way, they get very excited to learn. And when you combine the training with the firsthand experience and give them opportunities to use it, and this could be everyone in the organization, it doesn't have to be like your engineering team or your infrastructure team. I had people in the help desk that learned how to become cloud engineers. When you give them that opportunity, and you give them the tools to do it, and the opportunity to use it with the training, it tends to be a much easier recipe for success. And then your problem becomes retention. But like I say, you're going to have either the problem of hiring or, retention, or you're going to have the problem of having people who don't have enough skills. I'd rather have the problem of retention. And if you have that capability of up-skilling people, then you don't really need to worry about it because there's more people all the time that are becoming more and more skilled. The other thing is, it's a lot easier to overlay cloud skills on top of people who already know your organization and your applications, than bring in new people- >> Sure. >> who have cloud skills, try to retain them and then teach them how your organization works. So there's a lot of advantages to using the people that you have, and the training is a lot easier than people think. >> So who were the people in those organizations that are making the decision to go with Druva? >> [Stephen} Right. >> And who are the people in organizations who are then managing Druva environments moving forward? Do you need a PhD in Druva- (laughing) >> Stephen: Right. >> to be able to manage an environment like that? >> I'll tell you one of the things that I talk to a lot of customers about that are going through sort of that, "How do I up skill?" Is, the first thing we try to remind them is, don't just about what you did on-premises, and then say, "And we're going to do the exact same thing in cloud." Because that is usually a path to either frustration or failure. "I had a physical appliance, I'm going to run a virtual appliance." That's not usually the right answer. So a lot of times we spend time walking them through, "Here's how you think differently. Again, cloud is dynamically scalable. You want something that breaks apart those limits. Cloud gives you 475 options, which means you have purchasing power that you never had as a company that you can have so many different options in front of you." So think of these not as how you thought of your on-premises environment, but think of it as a new way of doing things. And so what we find is the people who tend to be most attracted to Druva are those customers who are saying, "I'm spending too much time, effort, and money on my data protection environment." Which basically is everybody. Nobody wakes up and says, "I wish I could spend more time and money doing backup." And then in terms of who runs it, what we find is it often gets absorbed in sort of a cloud administrator task, right? Where they're looking more broadly across the organization. It's not just about backup, it's backup, it's disaster recovery, it's security, it's compliance because they're looking at the data as opposed to the infrastructure at that point. And that's where they can really start to grow their careers and have a lot bigger impact inside their companies. >> So I can tell that you're an awesome guy to have at a party, because you'll talk about all the risks that we face. >> Absolutely! >> Talking about data center fire drills, you're literally talking about fires and drills at that point. >> You got it. >> But so what's on the horizon for Druva? What are the things that you... When you look out into the future, in the area of resiliency, what are some of the things that you're thinking about? >> There's a couple of things for me. I think one of them, again, Ransomware is everywhere. And so many people right now are still focused on just, "Can I get a clean copy? Can I get a safe copy?" That's built into Druva. So, we're beyond that. The real focus for me is, how do we streamline your recovery process? Because for so many customers, they make this assumption that a Ransomware recovery is just like a disaster recovery. And it's not, it's not as if you just had a system outage. Someone has invaded your environment and you need to make sure that the data, the environment is clean before you recover. You're going to want clean sandboxes to play around with things before you put it in, you're going to need to work with your legal team. So a lot of what we're working with is helping them orchestrate at larger scale. I think the other area that gets really interesting is this notion of autonomous, right? We talk about self-driving cars. Again, nobody wants to spend time tuning and managing their backup environment. So as Druva moves forward it's, "How can we just do this automatically for you?" Again, we're built in the cloud, everything scales automatically. You as a customer shouldn't have to be doing anything. You shouldn't be babysitting this. Let us take care of it for you. So for me, those are the really two big things. It's cybersecurity, that full end to end recovery, and it's around the autonomous protection. >> So Jake, a reality check, anything that he just said that sounds like... (laughing) sounds out of line based on your experience talking to customers in the last year? >> Jake: No, I agree with that. And I think we're touching on something that's really powerful here, because you kind of alluded to the choice that people have in AWS and we're creating new services all the time and new features all the time, right? So these are building blocks that companies can use. And there's a lot of builders at a lot of companies that get very excited to see all these building blocks, and it's about using the right tool for the job. So by giving you more choices, we're giving you more of an opportunity to find the exact fit for the workload you have. But if you just want it to work, then we have this partner of ecosystems. Druva being one of our... My personal favorites (laughing) >> Love you , Jake. >> that build on AWS, use these very resilient, very secure building blocks to build something that's turnkey for a customer. So I think it's a great marriage and it benefits customers ultimately. So it makes us happy. >> All right, well 2022 we expect this gentlemen here to see at least 300 customers to meet his goal. That's what we're expecting from you, Jake. >> All right, I'm on it. >> Thanks to all for joining us here at theCUBE's, continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021, I almost said 2022, live from Las Vegas. Stay tuned for much more from the leader in hybrid technology event programming, theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> Live from San Diego, California, it's the Cube. Covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, welcome back to Cisco Live from sunny San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante and David are joined by a couple of guests from DXC. To my right we've got Jake Sager, principal client executive TMT, Tech Media Telecom. Jake, great to have you on the program. >> Thank you. >> Now we're broadcasting from the sun. And Randy Redman, the director of security services Product Management. Randy welcome. >> Thank you very much. Glad to be here. >> So we're in the definite zone. You can imagine all of the exciting conversations going on behind us here. Guys, I just noticed that DXC, guys have been around for a couple of years IT services company with 25 billion in annual revenue, but you guys were just named, I think it's this morning, number three on CLUS 2019 solution provider list up from number 10 last year. Pretty good momentum. Jake, we'll start with you. What do you see in feed on the street, in the market with respect to digital transformation, what are customers pains and how is the DXC helping knock him out of the park? >> Well, I think you know, DXC has a long legacy history over 60 years of business together from CSC, EDS, and obviously HP heritage. So we've kind of seen it all and seen the business transform from a highly on the ground business to now a lot of things in the cloud. With that obviously customers are looking to do business in different ways. There's a lot of digital disruptors out there. So they're looking to find the new solution that's going to shade off the competition, kind of skirt it, find the newest best thing before they can and find customer driven solutions rather than just cost driven solutions and other things like that. >> So when you say customer driven solution, let's dig into that a little bit more. What does that mean? And how is it actually, how does it manifest? >> Well, I think the customer can be a lot of different things to a lot of different people. In retail, it can be somebody walking into your store and banking, it can be somebody using an app. But what does that end consumer want? What's going to make their life easier and make them go to you versus another company? And that's really what companies need to be looking at. There's no one answer to anything. But it's a lot of thought-lead leadership to try to come up with something brand new, that is not going to be disrupted by the next Airbnb or Uber. >> So you are a CEO, Michael, talks a lot about digital transformation. >> Right. >> Right here in the security side of things. So we going to dig into that a little bit. But in terms of the evolution of digital transformation, generally and specifically, how people are rethinking security as a result, because we often say, what's the difference between a business and a digital business? Well, it's how they use data. Okay, well and that opens up a whole can of worms on security. So what are you seeing in terms of the evolution of the so called digital transformation, but specifically how it's affecting their posture towards security? >> Yeah, absolutely, because in a digital environment, customers are completely rethinking both how their infrastructure is deployed and how their applications are deployed. And so really, it's opening up whole new avenues for security threats to enter their environments. At the same time, there are so many individual security technologies and customers are really struggling with what are the right technology choices to make and then more importantly how to operate them effectively, how to implement appropriate security policies, how to actually monitor effectively for threats across the environment. So digital transformation is changing their business environment, but it's really completely opening up the sphere on the security side of the house. >> So Jake, we were talking and I had asked you what your favorite topics are, you said, smart city, IoT and connected cars. Sounds like a security nightmare. >> Yeah. >> But it's an opportunity as well for you guys. >> Absolutely. >> So you go in, what's the customer conversation like? I mean, pick one or all three, if you can generalize, in terms of I mean, these are all new things, right? It's the Wild West right now. What's customers mindset? Like you said, they don't want to get disrupted. They're looking at new opportunities. What are they looking at? How are you guys helping them? >> Well, it depends industry by industry. You know, when it comes to healthcare, we can help with remote telemedicine, operating medical equipment remotely. But again, that's going to bring in a whole bunch of new security threats, which Randy is going to be more than equipped to talk about. But I think securing that is really a big problem. When you start talking about massive IoT, you're talking about thousands and thousands of sensors out there in a smart city or oil mining gas utility, like they were talking about earlier today. You're talking about tons of different entry points, lots of different vulnerabilities. So that's definitely a huge issue for them. It's also a ton of new data that they don't know how to manage, that they don't know how to make sense out of, through artificial intelligence or other means. So for a company like us that really has strength in security, artificial intelligence, machine learning, as well as a strong background of data center, data lake management, helping them kind of figure out what data to use and how to use it most effectively. That's really where we shine. Cause we're not necessarily the company providing the hardware. We're not the company writing the software. But we're really the glue that integrates it all together, and brings all those multi solutions together. 'Cause in IoT, it's an ecosystem. It's not solution in a box. >> Let's dig into the Smart City concept. It's so fascinating. I've read up on the Las Vegas city of Las Vegas, which is been on the Cube. Done a lot to really transform that city. But to your point take about data, I think Chuck Robbins said this morning in the keynote that organizations are only really getting insight from less than 1% of their data. >> Right. >> It must be one of those where do we start? >> Right. >> So you are talking about working with municipalities on becoming smart cities and being able to apply some of your expertise and AI. Where do you start that conversation? >> Well, I mean, the terms over abused, I think data is a new oil, right? So if you don't know which data you're getting it from and you're only getting 10%, you're not doing a very good job as an oil producer, right? So our company is very good at identifying where the data is. 'Cause a lot of times, that's half the problem, is finding where that data resides, getting it into a place where you can actually ingest it, and then actually analyze it and get something useful out of it. Companies typically don't know where all their data is, they don't know how to analyze it and they definitely don't know how to turn it into something useful. So that's something DXC does across the board. >> What about the partnership with Cisco? So Cisco, obviously, it's got the networks, it's got, you know, packets flying around. It's got to secure those. What's the partnership like? Are you leveraging their products? I'm sure you are. You guys use everybody's products. >> Right. >> What's the partnership like? And what specifically are you doing in the security area Randy? >> Yeah, so in terms of the partnership with Cisco, we're certainly looking in several areas frankly, because right, we're looking with our clients at a solution letter approach, right. And that's one of the things that we like with Cisco is the broad portfolio meshes with our broad portfolio. So certainly key areas of focus for us right now are in the Unified Communication space and how we're helping with collaboration for our clients, but also in the security area, technologies, such as Cisco stealth watch, which is helping provide more visibility to what's happening in networks today. Because more and more our view is that security as we were just talking about, even in the IoT space becomes more of an analytics exercise. It's less about really being able to detect what you already know, it's really about being able to drive detection from the unknown. And so the more data that we can get, the more visibility into network environments the better. >> How do you work with Cisco? 25% of Cisco's revenue is they called services. So, where do they leave off? I mean they're a product company. You guys are a services firm, but they have services. >> Right. >> How do you interact with them? You don't compete, I presume. At least there's maybe some overlap. But, where do they leave off and you guys pick up? >> Yeah, so certainly, we're not competing with Cisco from a services perspective. We're certainly relying on Cisco services for hardware and professional support around their technology. We're really there to provide overall solution design, architecture installation and we'll leverage Cisco professional services where that's appropriate. And then we provide managed services on the back end as well. >> So you're saying their role is to make sure it's architected properly and it's working, in the way it's promised. Your role is to say it my way and you can correct me is help the customer figure out how to apply those technologies to create business value. >> Well, exactly and also typically in a client solution. Cisco maybe one of several technologies that are involved in a broader solutions-- >> you got to make it all work together tomorrow-- >> And part of our role is to act as that integrator to bring the core Cisco elements with the DXC services and-- >> So your jobs getting harder and harder and harder. >> Fully it is. It's a security perspective. >> Dave: As a consumer things are getting easier, right? Oh, yeah, Google, Facebook, Instagram is so easy. But the back end with, you know, cloud and DevOps, the pace of change. How have you seen that affect your business? How are you dealing with that rapid change? >> Yeah, so I think that from a couple of perspectives here. One is that it's changing how we go about the process in terms of developing services and capabilities for our clients. Just as Agile has taken over actually in the application space, It's really driving how we think about actually developing offerings now around getting technology out into the market more quickly, evolving and growing capability from there. And so really, it's all about how we get proof of value for our clients quickly by getting technology into their hands as quickly as possible. >> Lisa: So let's talk about some of these waves of innovation Cisco was talking about this morning. Talking about this explosion of 5G, Wi-Fi 6 being able to have this access that works really well indoors outdoors, how that's changing even Jake you know, consumer demand. What opportunities, and Jake I'll start with you, what opportunities and some of the things that Cisco was talking about with respect to connectivity, AI with GPUs being everywhere, edge mobile, architectures becoming so a Morpheus opportunity for DXC to help customers really not just integrate the technologies but to excel and accelerate themselves to define new services, new business models. What's your differentiation point there? >> I mean, our main differentiation point from DXC is agnostic to the technology. We really specialize in being vendor agnostic, finding the best of breed companies out there and integrating it into our portfolio and offering it to our clients. If our client wants Azure, we're not going to try to sell them on Google Cloud. If they want one or the other, we're going to be hand in hand with the customer either way. With these new technologies that come around, it's just going to open the doors for so many new types of business, so many more disruptive businesses. No matter what comes along our goal is to have that portfolio in hand, which Cisco rounds out to be able to offer to our over 6000 enterprise clients. So we need to be able to manage every shape, size, variety, industry, anything you can think of. >> What's the trend? Is the trend, yeah, we want as you say, okay, we'll make it make it work for you or is the trend like, you guys figure it out. We're not sure what the right fit is. How much of that is going on? >> I'd say you probably see 50 50. (Jake laughs) >> I think we're seeing a lot of that. Certainly as clients are migrating applications to the cloud. They may be starting with a particular cloud platform, but clients are really frankly fairly agnostic in terms of the cloud platform they're migrating to. They're taking advantage of more and more SAS applications. So one of the trends that we're definitely seeing is how to address client security concerns in a hybrid cloud environment because that's more and more what we expect the future to be, even if clients are focusing on a particular cloud platform as their starting point today. >> So as data is traversing the network and one of the one of the things that I heard this morning from Chuck Robbins keynote was that the common denominator as all of these changes and waves in innovation are coming is the network. Data is traversing the network. Given that is a given and there's only going to be more and more data and more connected devices, more mobile data traffic. Randy question for you. How can DXC, how can you help customers leverage your expertise and say security and AI, as you mentioned, to extract more value from their data and allow them to become far more secure as the it's no longer acceptable, you can't just simply put a firewall around a perimeter that has so many a Morpheus points? >> Yeah and absolutely. And as we mentioned, with all of the data that's available today, it really becomes more of an analytics problem. And one of the investments that the DXC is making is specifically in our security platform that allows us to ingest data from pretty much any infrastructure data source and be able to leverage capabilities to provide analytics, machine learning and automation on top of that, to help clients leverage the power of the data and specifically from a security perspective, not just drive detection, because that's interesting. The question I get from clients is well now, what do I do about it? >> Right. >> And we're leveraging investment, our platform automation is actually to begin to take automated actions on behalf of our clients in order to solve security problems. >> Excellent, guys. Well, thank you so much, Jake, and Randy for stopping by the Cube and talking with Dave and me about what you guys are doing at DXC. The next time we'll have to talk about connected cars. >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> Alright. For Dave Vellante I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the Cube live from Cisco Live in sunny San Diego. Thanks for watching. (techy music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity, and theCUBE's Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite here in the Orange County Civic Center in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Stu Miniman. We are joined by Raphael Meyerowitz, he is the VP Office of the CTO at Presidio, And Jake Smith, who is the Director Data Center Solutions and Technologies at Intel. Thank you both so much for coming back on theCUBE. You're both CUBE alums. >> Thank you for having us. >> It's great to be back. >> So, I want to start by laying out for our viewers, why you're here, and if you're part of the Microsoft ecosystem: Intel, Cisco, Dell and others. Can you explain a little bit, to our viewers, the roll you play in this ecosystem. >> Well, for us, Microsoft is a long time partner. I mean, it's pretty well documented, we don't want to go there today, but at this particular event we're announcing a bunch of new product solutions. We're announcing new technology capabilities. And at four PM we're going to announce some world record results, for performance with an operating system in an application environment. So it's a very exciting time for Intel to be a part of this event. >> Well, this is quite a tease. (giggles) Can you give us a little-- >> You're going to have to wait 'til four PM. I will say, it has to do with Windows Server. It has to do with Xeon scale of a processor family. And, our future Optane products. >> Well, so, these are all great lead ins. And, before the cameras were rolling we were talking about all of these things. You want to go through, a little bit, where we are with each of those businesses? >> Yeah, at Presidio, we've mostly been partnering with Intel for a long time. And one of the things that we've seen also, is how Intel has developed their ecosystem of partners. The software, like today, if you look at today what was in our today with desktop as a service with citrix. That's something that we have been involved in, probably, for about 10 years. And now we actually seen that come to market. We're not just, the control plane is in the cloud. But, the actual, virtual desktops are in the cloud. And, we think that that's going to be a really good viable options for our customers with Office 365. >> Raph, maybe expand on that a little bit for our audience. You know, one of the things I always say is you talk in this multi-cloud heterogeneous world. You want to follow the apps. You want to follow the data. Well, you know, the desktop is part of where those applications and data live. So, how does that, you know, tie into all the cloud stuff we've been talkin' about, the last few years? >> So, for a lot of customers, one of the reasons they move to cloud is really for simplicities sake, alright. When you look at the desktop, the desktop is really not necessarily being the most simple thing in the world. Whether it's virtual, or whether it's physical desktop. By having the control plane in the virtual desktop in the cloud, where you can consume it with Office 365. And also through Microsoft. And you can buy it through a single entity. Customers are already going to see a lot of value in that. And we think it's really going to play in the market really, really well. Upper Enterprise customers and some Healthcare customers may take a little bit more time to adapt to. >> Jake, one of the things we talk, for years, we talked about people did their upgrades based on the tick-tock of the Intel fees there. >> Correct. >> Now we're talkin' about things like, you know, Windows as a service, going Evergreen. Maybe, how does that relationship, the old traditional Wintel versus the cloud era. Upgrades. You're talkin' about the new latest generation. How do we think about that? >> You know what, I'm not going to use that, the merged term, because that's, you know. The work that Windows does on Xeon scalable processor family has been amazing. But, typically, we've done a two to three year cycle on a server release. With our new road map, which we announced in August, which you were there for, so thank you. We're actually going to release a new CPU every year. We're releasing a new CPU every year because we have to deal with the fact that cloud customers, in Azure, want to have the availability to the latest and greatest technology, right now. And partners, like Presidio and Raph's team, have developed technologies, like Concierge, which he'll talk about, that give customers the ability to manage their hybrid cloud environments, both in the cloud and on premises. When you start giving customers that flexibility they want the choice to say, I want to deploy your latest Xeon scalable processor family, Skylake processors this year, and next year, I'm going to maybe skip a year before I deploy your next version. >> Yeah, thanks Jake. One of the things that we've done at Presidio, we've tried to innovate ourselves, and we listen to our customers, and we know where our customers pain points are. So, Presidio Concierge is something that we developed from the ground up, that provides both shared space applications, provides customers with the usage on their shared space applications, how they're consuming their licenses, and also provides them with an allessor sign, so the infrastructure's a service. A lot of customers, when you talk about multi cloud, it doesn't always necessarily always mean the Harper scalers, right. It could mean shared space products, as well. So, we developed this product from the ground up in combination with Intel, and it's something that our customers are starting to use a lot, and we think that there's going to be a great grow in their first product. Some of the features that we actually give to our customers are actually for free, because we know that our customers are really battling with figuring out their usage patterns, internally. >> Well, I want to hear about those pain points. What were the problems that you were trying to solve with Concierge? >> So, some of the pain points, you know, we have customers today that get invoices from some of the public cloud companies or their service providers or with their infrastructures service. And the invoices are 50 pages long. They can never actually figure out what their true costs are. So we, through a shared space platform, that we developed from the ground up, we can provide customers with all of those metrics around their licenses. Plus, also, their usage around infrastructure as a service, as well. >> And, what has demand been like? >> The demand's been really good. Actually, when we launched product about two, three months ago, we were already at 20 customers. And we've seen a lot of interest. Presidio has about 7700 customers nationally, that we call on today. And we've grown tremendously, we have about a three billion dollar infrastructure partner today that provides both on premises and public cloud services. >> Yeah, I like, you brought up the fact that customers are looking for simplicity. Unfortunately, today, cloud is no longer simple. You know, I would say if you said, okay, If I went to my server vendor of choice and wanted to configure something, versus I went to my cloud vendor of choice and try to configure something, cloud might even be more challenging for somebody to do. But, one of the areas that we're trying to help customers get some simplicity back, is if you look at solutions like Azure Stack. So, Rebecca and I interviewed Jeffrey Snover earlier today, and that was the goal they had, was to give, kind of, that operational model and even some of the services from Azure and put them in my data center. Was wondering if Intel and Presidio are both partnering with Microsoft on this. What are you seeing, what are you hearing from customers? Any proof points as to how the roll outs are going, on there? >> We at Presidio, we are one of the first Azure Stack partners. Probably, about a year and a half ago, when it was actually announced and when it went, yeah, I think it was June of last year, and we partnered with Cisco, Dell, and also HP in the space, and we seen demand from our customers creep up. Single node solutions. We've seen demand with Single node PLC solutions are being deployed today. And then, in the public sector, we're also starting to see customers that are interested in it because it will provide them with a gateway to the public cloud in the future. >> Yeah, we're seeing the exact same thing. Obviously, we've been partnering together for some time. The beauty of Azure Stack is it's optimized for Xeon scalable processor family, as well as Intel Optane technologies, both the SSDs and in the future, our persistent memory capabilities. What we like in our work that we've done on Azure Stack and Azure Stack development, is that customers have had a lot of releases to begin to determine where Azure Stack's going to fit in their overall portfolio. And that's how you really have to look at Azure Stack, is how do you manage your portfolio between the cloud and on premises. Azure Stack is a great tool for that. >> You know, leading up to the release of Azure Stack, I talked to a number of service providers that had pent up demand. Leading up to this show, I was hearing a lot of non-North American interest. Can you give us any characterization as to how the roll out's going? >> Yeah, I think when you look at non-North American interest, there's a lot of localization, that has to take place in a lot of those countries. Maybe there's not actually an Azure, a public cloud Azure in those countries today, which is something that Microsoft is building towards. So, customers want to get used to their API's, they want to keep their data local. And when they're the same API's, on premises versus in the public cloud for all of their applications. And that's why I think you see, especially in Europe, as an example, a lot of countries in Europe where actually, data sovereignty's a big issue, alright. The data's not allowed to leave the country that they're actually in. And the demand, I think will, I always say, Microsoft, version two or version three. They always get it right. I mean, we've seen this time and time again. They've proven to us, they get this right all the time. >> I want to follow up on something you were just talking about, though with, sort of, risk management being a really big, hot opportunity. The next generation of risk management and mitigation. Can you talk a little bit about what you're doing there, and what you're hearing from customers? >> Yeah, so, Presidio developed the next generation risk management framework, called NGRM. So, we found we do a lot of security with Cisco, Palo Alto. We have a lot of security vendors out there that we deal with, but what our CIO's were really looking for is they were looking for a single dashboard that could actually provide them with a scorecard: Green, Yellow, or Red. Basically saying this is where we're at in our security strategy and this is what we need to remediate right away. They can take that to their board, they can also use that internally for all of their CSO's and also all their internal IT infrastructure personnel that they have. So, it's something that we've seen customers adopt, because it provides that analysis and the remediation and it's not necessarily tied to a specific product. Again, this is a shared space platform that we developed from the ground up, because our customers are always saying, "Well, there's always security vulnerabilities. "How can we constantly check on this?" Right? And it doesn't matter whether you're running Azure, whether you have on-premises solutions, or whether you have some other cloud provider, we can provide that holistic view for customers today. >> One of the announcements that I think surprised everyone. I mean, things like Server 2019, we all expect. The open data initiative, the commentary that we had is if you talk about digital transformation. I mean, Microsoft, Adobe and SAP. Two companies at the center of it. What does it mean? When will customers see the benefits of this? And any commentary of digital transformation in general would be great. >> Well, typically, we've been involved in a lot of these open standards, and they typically take three to five years to work their way all the way through the system and build the proper ecosystem and standards. And then work their way into the product lines. I think, in this particular instance, there is a driver. We talked about the driver of cloud and why we, we Intel, are now producing chips every year, and you're not waiting for the three year release cycle. Well, the open data initiative, I think, falls into that camp. I think you're going to see an escalated transition to the open data initiative, because people have to be able to move their workloads. Presidio recognized it very early on in the process. We've been working with them for some time. But that's one of the values that they bring to customers, is their ability to do that. But, more and more customers and more and more data are being stretched and there has to be compatibility between file systems, file format, and data classification. The open data initiative is a start in that direction. >> Yeah, I mean, one of the examples that I could give you also is we always talk about IT transformation. We have a large customer that's actually a fleet truck company that underwent IT transformation, and they came to us and they said that they actually needed telematics on the trucks in the fleet of trucks. And the reason was because a lot of these trucks are breaking down and they would send it to a mechanic and the mechanic would diagnose it. So, we actually created, in partnership with Intel and with Microsoft, this telematic platform that actually can provide the customer, in real time, with what issues they actually have with the truck. And it saves the customer a lot of money. That's the type of information that customers are looking for. This customer has on premises data, plus, also in the public cloud, and I think stretching it and providing analytics around that is really important. >> And is it possible to take away the silos? I mean, you seem to be an optimist here. >> I'm very optimistic that we can take away the silos, but I'm also realistic. The only way to take away the silos is to develop new applications, new capabilities. And as my friends in Windows Server Team will tell you, we spend a lot of time trying to figure out, how do we use virtualization and container technologies to take old legacy data and carry it forward onto new modern IT infrastructure. And when you can do that, then you can extract value from the data. If you can not take it from an old, antiquated infrastructure to a new infrastructure as Presidio has done, you stranded the data. And that's where you have those silo breakdowns. So, I think we're developing the tools, but we're not all the way there. >> Yeah, you look at Windows 2019 coming out, there's Linux support in Windows 2019. Who would ever think that Microsoft would be releasing Linux support. >> Microsoft loves Linux. >> Microsoft loves Linux now, right? >> And they will in get it. >> And they'll get it now as well. Microsoft is really developed their ecosystem. Our partners also around the open API's and what they've been doing over the past few years. And I think customers are really starting to embrace that. And you look at even another feature that's coming with Windows 2019 with Storage Spaces Direct. Right, I think Microsoft, this is really going to be their entry into the Apple convert space. Customers are going to start building, they'll have to converge platform based on Windows 2019 Data Center. >> Wondering if you can give a little more color here, Raph. You and I lived through, kind of converged and hyperconvergence, when we wrote our original research at Wikibon, it was VMware is the one that's going to get everybody talking about it, but the one eventually that will be very important here is Microsoft. 'Cause, Microsoft owns the apps. They've got the operating systems, so absolutely, they can be critical in the HCI space. What are they doing and how does Presidio and partners go to market with this? >> So, I mean, when you look at Windows 2016, Windows 2016 was really the first iteration of Storage Spaces Direct. Windows 2019 has really improved upon that, and we're starting to see customers become more interested in that. The reason is because customers want a single platform that they can easily manage with a single operating system. So, there used to be the war, as you mentioned Stu, between VMware and Harper-V. ESXi and Harper-V. I don't really see that being talked about anymore. It's more around the features and the robust features that customers can actually get on as quickly as possible. I don't know if you have anymore. >> Well Raph, you're absolutely right on. I think people have taken virtualization for granted. We added virtualization technology in Xeon in 2006 and they've sort of taken it for granted. Obviously, VMware is a big partner for both Microsoft and Intel, but the reality is is that in a hyper convergent environment, you need a file system, you need an operating system, and you need apps. And Microsoft has all that capability. As you'll hear at four o'clock, we announce world record numbers and it's spectacular. And the reason for it is in our last version of Windows Server 2016, we delivered 16 million IOP's in a hyper converged environment. That got Raph and his team off the table saying, okay, you guys are legitimate. You have a legitimate platform now. But it's not good enough. We think this new instantiation that we've already started to announce in Windows 2019, and Jeff Wolsey announced it earlier today and started talking about the features in Project Honolulu. We think those kind of transitions are what it's going to take for Enterprise customers to begin to break down those silos that you discussed, and really start to look at their data holistically, build data lakes that can scale, and build frameworks that are, I don't even want to use the term convergent anymore, but hyper scalable. >> Yeah, I mean, to tie into that, right. You look at what Intel has developed around Optane and some of the storage platforms that they've come out with. 10 years ago? Intel wasn't really known as a storage company, right? But, you look at all the storage vendors out there today, they really are putting Intel aside. And when you start looking at what Storage Spaces Direct is going to deliver and some of the robustness around Optane, we really think that it's going to be something our customers are going to embrace with Windows 2019 and future versions and sequels. >> So, Raph, I got to give Presidio a lot of credit, though. We launched a program called Intel Select Solutions, and it really allowed us to take Windows and Storage Spaces Direct and create a solution that included both the CPU, the networking, the SSD's and the memory. And Presidio has led that. And so because we have these Intel Select Solutions for Storage Spaces Direct with Presidio, we have the flexibility now to give customers package solutions that are pre-configured. >> Great. Well, Jake and Raphael, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was great talking to you. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman, we will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite coming up just in a little bit. 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>> Narrator: Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE. Presenting: Big Data Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone, we're here live at San Jose for Big Data SV, Big Data Silicon Valley. I'm John Furrier, cohost of theCUBE. We're here with two great guests, Jaspreet Singh, founder and CEO of Druva, and Jake Burns, VP of Cloud Services of Live Nation Entertainment. Welcome to theCUBE, so what's going on with Cloud? Apps are out there, backup, recovery, what's going on? >> So, we went all in with AWS, and late 2015 and through 2016 we moved all of our corporate infrastructure into AWS, and I think we're a little bit unique in that situation, so in terms of our posture, we're 100% Cloud. >> John: Jaspreet, what's going on with you guys in the Cloud, because we've talked about this before, with a lot of the apps in the cloud, backup is really important. What's the key thing that you guys are doing together with Live Nation? >> Sure, so I think the notion of data is now pretty much everywhere. The data is captured, controlled in data center, now it's getting decentralized into getting into apps and ecosystems, and softwares and services deployed either at the edge or in the Cloud. As the data gets more and more decentralized, the notion of data management, bead backup, BD discovery. Anything has to get more and more centralized. And we strongly believe the epicenter of this whole data management has to move to Cloud. So, Druva is a size based provider for data management. And we work with Live Nation to predict the apps not just in the data center. But, also at the edge and also the Cloud data center. The applications deployed in the Cloud, be it Live Nation or Ticketmaster. >> And what are some of the workloads you guys are backing up? That's with Druva. >> Yeah so, it's pretty much all corporate, IT applications. You know, typical things you'd find in any IT shop really. So, you know, we have our financial systems and we have some of our smaller ticketing systems and you know, corporate websites. Things of that nature. So, it's like we have 120 applications that are running and it's just really kind of one of everything. >> We were talking before we came on camera about the history of computing and the Cloud has obviously changed the game. How would you compare the Cloud as a trend relative to operationalizing the role of data and obviously GDPR, Ransomware. These are things that now with the perimeter gone. There's worries. So now, how do you guys look at the Cloud? So Jake, I will start with you. If you can compare and contrast, where we have come from and where we are going. Role of the Cloud. Significant primary, expanding. How would you compare that? And how would you talk to someone who says Hey I'm still in the data center world? What's going on with Cloud? >> Well, yeah, it's significant and it's expanding, both. And you know, it's really transforming the way we do business. So you know just from a high level, things like shortening the time to market for applications, going from three to six months just to get a proof of concept started to today, you know, in the Cloud. Being able to innovate really by trying things trying to... we try 20 different things, decide what works, what doesn't work. And at very low cost. So, it allows us to really do things that just weren't possible before. So, also, we we move more quickly because, you know, we're not afraid of making mistakes. If we provision infrastructure and we don't get it right the first time, we just change it. You know, that's something that we would just never be able to do previously in the data center. So to answer your question, everything is different. >> And as a service model's been kind of key. Is the consumption on your end different like I mean radically different? Like give an example of like how much time would be saved or taken to use other the traditional approaches. >> Oh for sure. You know, in the role of IT has completely changed because you know, instead of worrying about nuts and bolts and servers and storage arrays and data centers. You know, we could really focus on the things that are important to the business. You know, those things delivering results for the business. So, bringing value, bringing applications online and trying things that are going to help you know, us do business rather than focusing on all the minutiae. All that stuff's now been outsourced to Cloud providers. So, really, we kind of have a similar head count and staff. But, we are focused on things that bring value rather than things that are just kind of frivolous. >> Jaspreet, you guys have been very successful startup growing rapidly. The Cloud been a good friend that trend is your friend with the Cloud. >> What's different operationally that you guys are tapping into? What's that tail wind for Druva that's making you guys successful? And is it the ease of use? Is it the ease of consumption? Is it the tech? What's the secret to success with Druva? >> Sure, so, we believe cloud is a very big business transformation trend more than a technology trend. It's how you consumer service with a fixed SLA, with a fixed service agreement across the globe. So, it's ease of consumption. It's simplicity of views. It's orchestration. It's cost control. All those things. So, our promise to our customers is the complexity of data management, backups, archives, data production, which is a risk mitigation project. You know, can be completely abstracted by a simple service. For example, you know, Live Nation consumers, consumer drove a service through Amazon Marketplace. So, think about consuming a critical service like data management through simplicity of marketplace, pay as you go, as you consume the service. Across the globe. In the US, in Australia, and Europe. And also, helps the vendors like us to innovate better. Because we have a control environment to understand how different customers are using the service and be able to orchestrate better security pusher, better threat prevention, better cost control. DevOps. So, it improves the pusher of the service being offered and helps the customer consumer. >> You both are industry veterans by today's standards unless you're like 24 doing some of the cryptocurrency stuff that, you know, doesn't know the old IT baggage. How would you guys view the multi-Cloud conversation? Because we hear that all the time. Multi-Cloud has come up so many times. What does it mean? Jake, what does multi-Cloud actually mean? Is it the same workload across multiple Clouds? Is it the fact that there is multiple Clouds? Certainly, there will be multiple Clouds? But, so, help us digest what that even means these days. >> Yeah, that's a great question and it's a really interesting topic. Multi-Cloud is one of those things where, you know, there's so many benefits to using more than one Cloud provider. But, there are also a lot of pitfalls. So, people really underestimate the difference in the technology and the complexity of managing the technology when you change Cloud providers. I'm talking primarily about infrastructure service providers like Amazon web services. So, you know, I think there's a lot of good reasons to be multi-Cloud to get the best features out of different providers, to not have, you know, the risk of having all your data in one place with one vendor. But, you know, it needs to be done in such a way where you don't take that hit in overhead and complexity and you know, I think that's kind of a prohibitive barrier for most enterprises. >> And what are the big pitfalls that you see? Is it mainly underestimating the stack complexity between them or is it more of just operational questions? I mean what is the pitfalls that you've observed? >> Yeah, so, moving from like a typical IT data center environment to public Cloud provider like AWS. You're essentially asking all your technical staff to start speaking in a new language. Now if you were to introduce a second Cloud provider to that environment, now you're asking them to learn a third language as well. And that's a lot to ask. So, you really have two scenarios where you can make that work today without using a third party. And that's ask all of your staff to know both and that's just not feasible. Or have two tech teams. One for each Cloud platform. That's really not something businesses want to do. So, I think the real answer is to rely on a third party that can come in and abstract one of those Cloud complexities Well, one of those Cloud providers out. So, you don't have to directly manage it. And in that way, you can get the benefit of being multi-Cloud, that data protection of being multi-Cloud. But, not have to introduce that complexity to your environment. >> To provide some abstraction layer. Some sort of software approach. >> Yeah, like for example, if you have your primary systems in AWS, and you use a software like Druva Phoenix to backup your data and you put that data into a second Cloud provider. You don't have to an account with that second Cloud provider. You don't have to have the risk of associating without a complexity associated without that is I think is a very >> And that's where you're looking for differentiation. We look at venues, say hey don't make me work harder. >> Right. >> And add new staff. Solve the problem. >> Yeah, it's all about solving problems right? And that's why we're doing this. >> So, Druva talk about this thing. Because we talked about it earlier about To me we could be oh we're on Azure. Well, they have Office 365 of course they're going to have Microsoft. A lot of people have a lot going on and AWS. So, maybe we're not there at the world where you can actually use provision across Clouds, the same workload, It would be nice to have that someday if it was seamless. But, I think that's might be the nirvana. But at the end of the day, an enterprise might have Office 365 and some Azure. But, I got some mostly Amazon over here I'm doing a lot of development on and doing a DevOps, and I'm on-prim. How do you talk to that? Because that's like you got to backup Office 365, you got to do the on-prim thing, you got to do the Amazon thing. How do you guys solve that problem? What's the conversation? >> Absolutely. I think over time we believe best of breed will win. So, people will deploy different type of cloud for different workloads. Pete's has hosted IaaS or platform like PaaS. When they do that, when they host multiple services, softwares to deploy services. I think its hard to control where the data will go. What we can orchestrate or anybody can orchestrate is the centralizing the data management part of it. So, Druva has the best pusher, has the best coverage across multiple heterogeneous Cloud breed. You know. Services like Office 365, Box, or Saleforce or B platforms like S3 or Dynono DB through our product called Apollo or hosted platforms like what Live Nation is using through our Phoenix product line. So getting the breadth of coverage, consistency of policies on a single platform is what will make enterprises adopt what's best out there without worrying about how you build abstraction for data management. >> Jake, what's the biggest thing you see people who are moving to the Cloud for the first time? What are they struggling with? Is it the idea that there's no perimeter? Is it staff training? I mean what are some of the as people move from Test Dev and or start to put in production the Cloud? What are some of the critical things they should think about? >> Yeah, there are so many of them. But first, really, its just getting buy in, you know, from your technical staff because, you know, in an enterprise environment you bring in a Cloud provider it's very easily framed to hold as if we're just being outsourced right? So, I think getting past that barrier first and really getting through to folks and letting them know that really this is good for you. This is not bad for you. You're going to be learning a new skill, very valuable skill, and you're going to be more effective at your job. So, I think that's the first thing. After that, once you start moving to the Cloud, then, the thing that becomes apparent very quickly is cost control. So, you know, the thing with public Cloud is you know, before you had this really kind of narrow range of what IT could cost. Now with the traditional data center, now we have this huge range. And yes, it can be cheaper than it was before. But, it can also be far more expensive than it was before. >> So, service is sprawled or just not paying attention? Both? >> Well, you essentially you're giving your engineers a blank check. So, you need to have some governance and, you know, you really need to think about things that you didn't have to think about before. You're paying for consumption. So, you really have to watch your consumption. >> So, take me thorough the mental model of D duplication in the Cloud. Because I'm trying to like visualize it or grok it a little bit. Okay, so, the Cloud is out there, data's everywhere. And do I move the compute to the data? How does the backup and recovery and data management work? And does D Doup change with Cloud? Because some people think I got my D Doup already and I'm on premise. I've been doing these old solutions. How does D Doup specifically change in the Cloud or does it? >> I know scale changes. You're looking at, you know, the best D Doup systems, if you look historically, you know, were 100 terabyte, 200 terabyte, Dedup indexes, data domain. The scale changes, you know, customers expect massive scale in Cloud. Our largest customer had 10 perabyte in a single Dedup index. It's 100x scale difference compared to what traditional systems could do. Number two, you could create a quality of service which is not really bound by a fixed, you know, algorithm like variable lent or whatever. So, you can optimize a Dedup very clearly for the right workload. The right Dedup for the right workload. So, you may Dedup off of 365 differently than your VMware instances, compared to your Oracle databases or your Endpoint workload. So, it helps you that as a service business model helps you create a custom, tailored solution for the right data. And bring the scale. We don't have the complexity of scale. But, to get the benefit of scale. All, you know, simply managing the cloud. >> Jake, what's it like working with Druve? What's the benefit that they bring to you guys? >> Yeah, so, specifically around backups for our enterprise systems, you know, that's a difficult challenge to solve natively in the Cloud. Especially if you're going to be limited to using Cloud native tools. So, it's really it's a really perfect use case for a third party provider. You know, people don't think about this much but in the old days, in the data center, you know, our backups went offsite into a vault. They were on tapes. It was very difficult for us to lose those or for them to be erased accidentally or even intentionally. Once you go into the Cloud, especially if you're all in with the Cloud, like we are. Everything is easier. And so, accidents are easier also. You know, deleting your data is easier. So, you know, what we really want and what a lot of enterprises want. >> And security too is a potential >> Absolutely, yeah. And so, what we want is we want to get some of that benefit, you know, back that we had from that inefficiency that we had beforehand. We love all the benefits of the Cloud. But, we want to have our data protected also. So, this is a great role for a company like Druva to come in and offer a product like Phoenix and say, you know, we're going to handle we're going to handle your backups for you essentially. So, you're going to put it in a safe place. We're going to secure it for you. And we're going to make sure it's secure for you. And doing it software is a service like Druva does with Phoenix. I think is the absolute right way to go. It's exactly what you need. >> Well, congratulations Jake Burns, Vice President in Cloud services. >> Thank you. >> At Live Nation entertainment. Jaspreet Singh, CEO of Druva, great to have you on. Congratulations on your success. >> Thank you. >> Inside the tornado called Cloud computing. A lot more stuff coming. More CUBE coverage coming up after this short break. Be right back. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. CUBE's coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, AWS re:inforce 22, security conference. It's AWS' big security conference. Of course, theCUBE's here, all the reinvent, reese, remars, reinforced. We cover 'em all now and the summits. I'm John Furrier, my host Dave Vellante. We have IDC weighing in here with their analysts. We've got some great guests here, Jay Bretzmann research VP at IDC and Philip Bues research manager for Cloud security. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. Great to be here. >> Appreciate coming. >> Got a full circle, right? (all laughing) Security's more interesting than storage, isn't it? (all laughing) >> Dave and Jay worked together. This is a great segment. I'm psyched that you guys are here. We had Crawford and Matt Eastwood on at HPE Discover a while back and really the data you guys are getting and the insights are fantastic. So congratulations to IDC. You guys doing great work. We appreciate your time. I want to get your reaction to the event and the keynotes. AWS has got some posture and they're very aggressive on some tones. Some things that we didn't hear. What's your reaction to the keynote? Share your assessment. >> So, you know, I manage two different research services at IDC right now. They are both Cloud security and identity and digital security, right? And what was really interesting is the intersection between the two this morning, because every one of those speakers that came on had something to say about identity or least privileged access, or enable MFA, or make sure that you control who gets access to what and deny explicitly. And it's always been a challenge a little bit in the identity world because a lot of people don't use MFA. And in RSA, that was another big theme at the RSA conference, MFA everywhere. Why don't they use it? Because it introduces friction and all of a sudden people can't get their jobs done. And the whole point of a network is letting people on to get that data they want to get to. So that was kind of interesting, but as we have in the industry, this shared responsibility model for Cloud computing, we've got shared responsibility for between Philip and I. (Philip laughing) I have done in the past more security of the Cloud and Philip is more security in the Cloud. >> So yeah. >> And now with Cloud operation Super Cloud, as we call it, you have on premises, private Cloud coming back, or hasn't really gone anywhere, all that on premises, Cloud operations, public Cloud, and now edge exploding with new requirements. It's really an ops challenge right now. Not so much dev. So the sec and op side is hot right now. >> Yeah, well, we've made this move from monolithic to microservices based applications. And so during the keynote this morning, the announcement around the GuardDuty Malware Protection component, and that being built into the pricing of current GuardDuty, I thought was really key. And there was also a lot of talk about partnering in security certifications, which is also so very important. So we're seeing this move towards filling in that talent gap, which I think we're all aware of in the security industry. >> So Jake, square the circle for me. So Kirk Coofell talked about Amazon AWS identity, where does AWS leave off, and companies like Okta or Ping identity or Cybertruck pickup, how are they working together? Does it just create more confusion and more tools for customers? We know the overused word of seamless. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's never seamless, so how should we think about that? >> So, identity has been around for 35 years or something like that. Started with the mainframes and all that. And if you understand the history of it, you make more sense to the current market. You have to know where people came from and the baggage they're carrying, 'cause they're still carrying a lot of that baggage. Now, when it comes to the Cloud Service providers, they're more an accommodation from the identity standpoint. Let's make it easy inside of AWS to let you single sign on to anything in the Cloud that they have, right? Let's also introduce an additional MFA capability to keep people safer whenever we can and provide people with tools, to get into those applications somewhat easily, while leveraging identities that may live somewhere else. So there's a whole lot of the world that is still active, directory-centric, right? There's another portion of companies that were born in the Cloud that were able to jump on things like Okta and some of the other providers of these universal identities in the Cloud. So, like I said, if you understand where people came from in the beginning, you start to say, "Yeah, this makes sense." >> It's interesting you talk about mainframe. I always think about Rack F, you know. And I say, "Okay, who did what, when, where?" And you hear about a lot of those themes. So what's the best practice for MFA, that's non-SMS-based? Is it you got to wear something around your neck, is it to have sort of a third party authenticator? What are people doing that you guys would recommend? >> Yeah, one quick comment about adoption of MFA. If you ask different suppliers, what percent of your base that does SSO also does MFA, one of the biggest suppliers out there, Microsoft will tell you it's under 25%. That's pretty shocking. All the messaging that's come out about it. So another big player in the market was called Duo, Cisco bought them. >> Yep. >> And because they provide networks, a lot of people buy their MFA. They have probably the most prevalent type of MFA, it's called Push. And Push can be a red X and a green check mark to your phone, it can be a QR code, somewhere, it can be an email push as well. So that is the next easiest thing to adopt after SMS. And as you know, SMS has been denigrated by NIST and others saying, it's susceptible to man and middle attacks. It's built on a telephony protocol called SS7. Predates anything, there's no certification either side. The other real dynamic and identity is the whole adoption of PKI infrastructure. As you know, certificates are used for all kinds of things, network sessions, data encryption, well, identity increasingly. And a lot of the consumers and especially the work from anywhere, people these days have access through smart devices. And what you can do there, is you can have an agent on that smart device, generate your private key and then push out a public key and so the private key never leaves your device. That's one of the most secure ways to- >> So if our SIM card gets hacked, you're not going to be as vulnerable? >> Yeah, well, the SIM card is another challenge associated with the older ways, but yeah. >> So what do you guys think about the open source connection and they mentioned it up top. Don't bolt on security, implying shift left, which is embedding it in like sneak companies, like sneak do that. Very container oriented, a lot of Kubernetes kind of Cloud native services. So I want to get your reaction to that. And then also this reasoning angle they brought up. Kind of a higher level AI reasoning decisions. So open source, and this notion of AI reasoning. or AI reason. >> And you see more open source discussion happening, so you have your building maintaining and vetting of the upstream open source code, which is critical. And so I think AWS talking about that today, they're certainly hitting on a nerve, as you know, open source continues to proliferate. Around the automated reasoning, I think that makes sense. You want to provide guide rails and you want to provide roadmaps and you want to have sort of that guidance as to, okay, what's a correlation analysis of different tools and products? And so I think that's going to go over really well, yeah. >> One of the other key points about open source is, everybody's in a multi-cloud world, right? >> Yeah. >> And so they're worried about vendor lock in. They want an open source code base, so that they don't experience that. >> Yeah, and they can move the code around, and make sure it works well on each system. Dave and I were just talking about some of the dynamics around data control planes. So they mentioned encrypt everything which is great and I message by the way, I love that one. But oh, and he mentioned data at rest. I'm like, "What about data in flight? "Didn't hear that one." So one of the things we're seeing with SuperCloud, and now multi-cloud kind of as destinations of that, is that in digital transformation, customers are leaning into owning their data flows. >> Yeah. >> Independent of say the control plane aspects of what could come in. This is huge implications for security, where sharing data is huge, even Schmidt on stage said, we have billions and billions of things happening that we see things that no one else sees. So that implies, they're sharing- >> Quad trillion. >> Trillion, 15 zeros. (Jay laughs) >> 15 zeros. >> So that implies they're sharing that or using that pushing that into something. So sharing is huge with cyber security. So that implies open data, data flows. How do you guys see this evolving? I know it's kind of emerging, but it's becoming a nuanced point, that's critical to the architecture. >> Well, yeah, I think another way to look at that is the sharing of intelligence and some of the recent directives, from the executive branch, making it easier for private companies to share data and intelligence, which I think strengthens the cyber community overall. >> Depending upon the supplier, it's either an aggregate level of intelligence that has been anonymized or it's specific intelligence for your environment that everybody's got a threat feed, maybe two or three, right? (John laughs) But back to the encryption point, I mean, I was working for an encryption startup for a little while after I left IBM, and the thing is that people are scared of it. They're scared of key management and rotation. And so when you provide- >> Because they might lose the key. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> It's like shooting yourself in the foot, right? So that's when you have things like, KMS services from Amazon and stuff that really help out a lot. And help people understand, okay, I'm not alone in this. >> Yeah, crypto owners- >> They call that hybrid, the hybrid key, they don't know how they call the data, they call it the hybrid. What was that? >> Key management service? >> The hybrid- >> Oh, hybrid HSM, correct? >> Yeah, what is that? What is that? I didn't get that. I didn't understand what he meant by the hybrid post quantum key agreement. >> Hybrid post quantum key exchange. >> AWS never made a product name that didn't have four words in it. (John laughs) >> But he did reference the new NIST algos. And I think I inferred that they were quantum proof or they claim to be, and AWS was testing those. >> Correct, yeah. >> So that was kind of interesting, but I want to come back to identity for a second. So, this idea of bringing traditional IAM and Privileged Access Management together, is that a pipe dream, is that something that is actually going to happen? What's the timeframe, what's your take on that? >> So, there are aspects of privilege in every sort of identity. Back when it was only the back office that used computers for calculations, right? Then you were able to control how many people had access. There were two types of users, admins and users. These days, everybody has some aspect of- >> It's a real spectrum, really. >> Yeah. >> Granular. >> You got the C-suite, the finance people, the DevOps people, even partners and whatever. They all need some sort of privileged access, and the term you hear so much is least-privileged access, right? Shut it down, control it. So, in some of my research, I've been saying that vendors who are in the PAM space, Privilege Access Management space, will probably be growing their suites, playing a bigger role, building out a stack, because they have the expertise and the perspective that says, "We should control this better." How do we do that, right? And we've been seeing that recently. >> Is that a combination of old kind of antiquated systems meets for proprietary hyper scale, or kind of like build your own? 'Cause I mean, Amazon, these guys, Facebook, they all build their own stuff. >> Yes, they do. >> Then enterprises buy services from general purpose identity management systems. >> So as we were talking about knowing the past and whatever, Privileged Access Management used to be about compliance reporting. Just making sure that I knew who accessed what? And could prove it, so I didn't fail at all. >> It wasn't a critical infrastructure item. >> No, and now these days, what it's transitioning into, is much more risk management, okay. I know what our risk is, I'm ahead of it. And the other thing in the PAM space, was really session monitor. Everybody wanted to watch every keystroke, every screen's scrape, all that kind of stuff. A lot of the new Privileged Access Management, doesn't really require that. It's a nice to have feature. You kind of need it on the list, but is anybody really going to implement it? That's the question, right. And then if you do all that session monitoring, does anybody ever go back and look at it? There's only so many hours in the day. >> How about passwordless access? (Jay laughs) I've heard people talk about that. I mean, that's as a user, I can't wait but- >> Well, it's somewhere we want to all go. We all want identity security to just disappear and be recognized when we log in. So the thing with passwordless is, there's always a password somewhere. And it's usually part of a registration action. I'm going to register my device with a username password, and then beyond that I can use my biometrics, right? I want to register my device and get a private key, that I can put in my enclave, and I'll use that in the future. Maybe it's got to touch ID, maybe it doesn't, right? So even though there's been a lot of progress made, it's not quote, unquote, truly passwordless. There's a group, industry standards group called Fido. Which is Fast Identity Online. And what they realized was, these whole registration passwords, that's really a single point of failure. 'Cause if I can't recover my device, I'm in trouble. So they just did new extension to sort of what they were doing, which provides you with much more of like an iCloud vault that you can register that device in and other devices associated with that same identity. >> Get you to it if you have to. >> Exactly. >> I'm all over the place here, but I want to ask about ransomware. It may not be your wheelhouse. But back in the day, Jay, remember you used to cover tape. All the backup guys now are talking about ransomware. AWS mentioned it today and they showed a bunch of best practices and things you can do. Air gaps wasn't one of them. I was really surprised 'cause that's all every anybody ever talks about is air gaps and a lot of times that air gap could be a guess to the Cloud, I guess, I'm not sure. What are you guys seeing on ransomware apps? >> We've done a lot of great research around ransomware as a service and ransomware, and we just had some data come out recently, that I think in terms of spending and spend, and as a result of the Ukraine-Russia war, that ransomware assessments rate number one. And so it's something that we encourage, when we talk to vendors and in our services, in our publications that we write about taking advantage of those free strategic ransomware assessments, vulnerability assessments, as well and then security and training ranked very highly as well. So, we want to make sure that all of these areas are being funded well to try and stay ahead of the curve. >> Yeah, I was surprised to not see air gaps on the list, that's all everybody talks about. >> Well, the old model for air gaping in the land days, the novel days, you took your tapes home and put them in the sock drawer. (all laughing) >> Well, it's a form of air gap. (all laughing) >> Security and no one's going to go there and clean out. >> And then the internet came around and ruined it. >> Guys, final question we want to ask you, guys, we kind of zoom out, great commentary by the way. Appreciate it. We've seen this in many markets, a collection of tools emerge and then there's its tool sprawl. So cyber we're seeing the trend now where mon goes up on stage of all the ecosystems, probably other vendors doing the same thing where they're organizing a platform on top of AWS to be this super platform, for super Cloud capability by building a more platform thing. So we're saying there's a platform war going on, 'cause customers don't want the complexity. I got a tool but it's actually making it more complex if I buy the other tool. So the tool sprawl becomes a problem. How do you guys see this? Do you guys see this platform emerging? I mean tools won't go away, but they have to be easier. >> Yeah, we do see a consolidation of functionality and services. And we've been seeing that, I think through a 2020 Cloud security survey that we released that was definitely a trend. And that certainly happened for many companies over the last six to 24 months, I would say. And then platformization absolutely is something we talk and write about all the time so... >> Couple of years ago, I called the Amazon tool set an erector set because it really required assembly. And you see the emphasis on training here too, right? You definitely need to go to AWS University to be competent. >> It wasn't Lego blocks yet. >> No. >> It was erector set. >> Yeah. >> Very good distinction. >> Loose. >> And you lose a few. (chuckles) >> But still too many tools, right? You see, we need more consolidation. It's getting interesting because a lot of these companies have runway and you look at sale point at stock prices held up 'cause of the Thoma Bravo acquisition, but all the rest of the cyber stocks have been crushed especially the high flyers, like a Sentinel-1 one or a CrowdStrike, but just still M and A opportunity. >> So platform wars. Okay, final thoughts. What do you, think is happening next? What's your outlook for the next year or so? >> So, in the identity space, I'll talk about, Philip can cover Cloud for us. It really is more consolidation and more adoption of things that are beyond simple SSO. It was, just getting on the systems and now we really need to control what you're able to get to and who you are. And do it as transparently as we possibly can, because otherwise, people are going to lose productivity. They're not going to be able to get to what they want. And that's what causes the C-suite to say, "Wait a minute," DevOps, they want to update the product every day. Make it better. Can they do that or did security get in the way? People, every once in a while call security, the Department of No, right? >> They ditch it on stage. They want to be the Department of Yes. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> And the department that creates additional value. If you look at what's going on with B2C or CIAM, consumer oriented identity, that is all about opening up new direct channels and treating people like their old friends, not like you don't know them, you have to challenge them. >> We always say, you want to be in the boat together, it sinks or not. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Philip I'm glad- >> Okay, what's your take? What's your outlook for the year? >> Yeah, I think, something that we've been seeing as consolidation and integration, and so companies looking at from built time to run time, investing in shift left infrastructure is code. And then also in the runtime detection, makes perfect sense to have both the agent and agent lists so that you're covering any of the gaps that might exist. >> Awesome, Jay Phillip, thanks for coming on "theCUBE" with IDC and sharing your- >> Oh, our pleasure- >> Perspective, commentary and insights and outlook. Appreciate it. >> You bet. >> Thank you. >> Okay, we've got the great direction here from IDC analyst here on the queue. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Be back more after this short break. (bright upbeat music)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone. Cube's coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, AWS reinforced 22, the security conference. It's ADOS big security conference. Of course, the cubes here, all the reinvent res re Mars reinforce. We cover 'em all now and the summits. I'm John. Very my host, Dave ante have IDC weighing in here with their analysis. We've got some great guests here, Jay Brisbane, research VP at IDC and Philip who research managed for cloud security. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on. Thank you. Appreciate it. Great >>To, to be here. I appreciate the got the full >>Circle, right? Just, security's more interesting >>Than storage. Isn't it? >>Dave, Dave and Jay worked together. This is a, a great segment. I'm psyched that you guys are here. We had Crawford and Matt Eastwood on at HPE discover a while back and really the, the, the data you guys are getting and the insights are fantastic. So congratulations to IDC. You guys doing great work. We appreciate your time. I wanna get your reaction to the event and the keynotes. AWS has got some posture and they're very aggressive on some tones. Some things that they didn't, we didn't hear. What's your reaction to the keynote, share your, your assessment. >>So, you know, I managed two different research services at IDC right now. They are both cloud security and identity and, and digital security. Right. And what was really interesting is the intersection between the two this morning, because every one of those speakers that came on had something to say about identity or least privileged access, or, you know, enable MFA, or make sure that you, you know, control who gets access to what and deny explicitly. Right? And it's always been a challenge a little bit in the identity world because a lot of people don't use MFA. And in RSA, that was another big theme at the RSA conference, right? MFA everywhere. Why don't they use it because it introduces friction and all of a sudden people can't get their jobs done. Right. And the whole point of a network is letting people on to get that data they want to get to. So that was kind of interesting, but, you know, as we have in the industry, this shared responsibility model for cloud computing, we've got shared responsibility for between Philip and I, I have done in the ke past more security of the cloud and Philip is more security in the cloud, >>So yeah. And it's, and now with cloud operation, super cloud, as we call it, you have on premises, private cloud coming back, or hasn't really gone anywhere, all that on premises, cloud operations, public cloud, and now edge exploding with new requirements. Yeah. It's really an ops challenge right now. Not so much dev. So the sick and op side is hot right now. >>Yeah. Well, we've made this move from monolithic to microservices based applications. And so during the keynote this morning, the announcement around the guard duty malware protection component, and that being built into the pricing of current guard duty, I thought was, was really key. And there was also a lot of talk about partnering in security certifications. Yeah. Which is also so very important. So we're seeing this move towards filling in that talent gap, which I think we're all aware of in the security industry. >>So Jake square, the circle for me. So Kirk, Coel talked about Amazon AWS identity, where does AWS leave off and, and companies like Okta or ping identity or crock pickup, how are they working together? Does it just create more confusion and more tools for customers? We, we have, we know the over word overused word of seamless. Yeah. Yeah. It's never seamless. So how should we think about that? >>So, you know, identity has been around for 35 years or something like that started with the mainframes and all that. And if you understand the history of it, you make more sense to the current market. You have to know where people came from and the baggage they're carrying, cuz they're still carrying a lot of that baggage. Now, when it comes to the cloud service providers, they're more an accommodation from the identity standpoint, let's make it easy inside of AWS to let you single sign on to anything in the cloud that they have. Right. Let's also introduce an additional MFA capability to keep people safer whenever we can and, you know, provide people the tools to, to get into those applications somewhat easily, right. While leveraging identities that may live somewhere else. So, you know, there's a whole lot of the world that is still active directory centric, right? There's another portion of companies that were born in the cloud that were able to jump on things like Okta and some of the other providers of these universal identities in the cloud. So, you know, like I said, you, if you understand where people came from in the beginning, you start to, to say, yeah, this makes sense. >>It's, it's interesting. You talk about mainframe. I, I always think about rack F you know, and I say, okay, who did what, when, where, yeah. And you hear about a lot of those themes. What, so what's the best practice for MFA? That's, that's non SMS based. Is it, you gotta wear something around your neck, is it to have sort of a third party authenticator? What are people doing that is that, that, that you guys would recommend? >>Yeah. One quick comment about adoption of MFA. You know, if you ask different suppliers, what percent of your base that does SSO also does MFA one of the biggest suppliers out there Microsoft will tell you it's under 25%. That's pretty shocking. Right? All the messaging that's come out about it. So another big player in the market was called duo. Cisco bought them. Yep. Right. And because they provide networks, a lot of people buy their MFA. They have probably the most prevalent type of MFA it's called push. Right. And push can be, you know, a red X and a green check mark to your phone. It can be a QR code, you know, somewhere, it can be an email push as well. So that is the next easiest thing to adopt after SMS. And as you know, SMS has been denigrated by N and others saying, you know, it's susceptible to man and middle attacks. >>It's built on a telephony protocol called SS seven. Yep. You know, predates anything. There's no certification, either side. The other real dynamic and identity is the whole adoption of PKI infrastructure. As you know, certificates are used for all kinds of things, network sessions, data encryption, well identity increasingly, and a lot of the, you know, consumers and especially the work from anywhere, people these days have access through smart devices. Right. And what you can do there is you can have an agent on that smart device, generate your private key and then push out a public key. And so the private key never leaves your device. That's one of the most secure ways to, so if your >>SIM card gets hacked, you're not gonna be as at vulnerable >>Or as vulnerable. Well, the SIM card is another, you know, challenge associated with the, the older waste. But yeah. Yeah. >>So what do you guys think about the open source connection and, and they, they mentioned it up top don't bolt on security implying shift left, which is embedding it in like sneak companies, like sneak do that, right. Container oriented, a lot of Kubernetes kind of cloud native services. So I wanna get your reaction to that. And then also this reasoning angle, they brought up kind of a higher level AI reasoning decisions. So open source and this notion of AI reasoning >>Automation. Yeah. And, and you see more open source discussion happening, right. So you, you know, you have your building maintaining and vetting of the upstream open source code, which is critical. And so I think AWS talking about that today, they're certainly hitting on a nerve as, you know, open source continues to proliferate around the automated reasoning. I think that makes sense. You know, you want to provide guiderails and you want to provide roadmaps and you wanna have sort of that guidance as to okay. What's the, you know, a correlation analysis of different tools and products. And so I think that's gonna go over really well. >>Yeah. One of the other, you know, key points of what open source is, everybody's in a multi-cloud world, right? Yeah. And so they're worried about vendor lockin, they want an open source code base so that they don't experience that. >>Yeah. And they can move the code around and make sure it works well on each system. Dave and I were just talking about some of the dynamics around data control planes. So yeah. They mentioned encrypt everything, which is great. And I message, by the way, I love that one, but oh. And he mentioned data at rest. I'm like, what about data in flight? Didn't hear that one. So one of the things we're seeing with super cloud, and now multi-cloud kind of, as destinations of that, is that in digital transformation, customers are leaning into owning their data flows. >>Yeah. >>Independent of say the control plane aspects of what could come in. This is huge implications for security, where sharing data is huge. Even Schmidt on Steve said we have billions and billions of things happening that we see things that no one else else sees. So that implies, they're >>Sharing quad trillion, >>Trillion, 15 zeros trillion. Yeah. 15 >>Zeros, 15 zeros. Yeah. >>So that implies, they're sharing that or using that, pushing that into something. So sharing's huge with cyber security. So that implies open data, data flows. What do, how do you guys see this evolving? I know it's kind of emerging, but it's becoming a, a nuanced point that's critical to the architecture. >>Well, I, yeah, I think another way to look at that is the sharing of intelligence and some of the recent directives, you know, from the executive branch, making it easier for private companies to share data and intelligence, which I think strengthens the cyber community overall, >>Depending upon the supplier. Right? Yeah. It's either an aggregate level of intelligence that has been, you know, anonymized or it's specific intelligence for your environment that, you know, everybody's got a threat feed, maybe two or three, right. Yeah. But back to the encryption point, I mean, I was working for an encryption startup for a little while. Right after I left IBM. And the thing is that people are scared of it. Right. They're scared of key management and rotation. And so when you provide, >>Because they might lose the key. >>Exactly. Yeah. It's like shooting yourself in the foot. Right. So that's when you have things like, you know, KMS services from Amazon and stuff, they really help out a lot and help people understand, okay, I'm not alone in this. >>Yeah. Crypto >>Owners, they call that hybrid, the hybrid key, they call the, what they call the, today. They call it the hybrid. >>What was that? The management service. Yeah. The hybrid. So hybrid HSM, correct. >>Yeah. What is that? What is that? I didn't, I didn't get that. I didn't understand what he meant by the hybrid post hybrid, post quantum key agreement. Right. That still notes >>Hybrid, post quantum key exchange, >>You know, AWS never made a product name that didn't have four words in it, >>But he did, but he did reference the, the new N algos. And I think I inferred that they were quantum proof or the claim it be. Yeah. And AWS was testing those. Correct. >>Yeah. >>So that was kind of interesting, but I wanna come back to identity for a second. Okay. So, so this idea of bringing traditional IAM and, and privilege access management together, is that a pipe dream, is that something that is actually gonna happen? What's the timeframe, what's your take on that? >>So, you know, there are aspects of privilege in every sort of identity back when, you know, it was only the back office that used computers for calculations, right? Then you were able to control how many people had access. There were two types of users, admins, and users, right? These days, everybody has some aspect of, >>It's a real spectrum, really >>Granular. You got the, you know, the C suite, the finance people, the DevOps, people, you know, even partners and whatever, they all need some sort of privileged access. And the, the term you hear so much is least privileged access. Right? Shut it down, control it. So, you know, in some of my research, I've been saying that vendors who are in the Pam space privilege access management space will probably be growing their suites, playing a bigger role, building out a stack because they have, you know, the, the expertise and the, and the perspective that says we should control this better. How do we do that? Right. And we've been seeing that recently, >>Is that a combination of old kind of antiquated systems meets for proprietary hyperscale or kind of like build your own? Cause I mean, Amazon, these guys, they Facebook, they all build their own stuff. >>Yes. They >>Do enterprises buy services from general purpose identity management systems. >>So as we were talking about, you know, knowing the past and whatever privileged access management used to be about compliance reporting. Yeah. Right. Just making sure that I knew who accessed what and could prove it. So I didn't fail in art. It wasn't >>A critical infrastructure item. >>No. And now these days, what it's transitioning into is much more risk management. Okay. I know what our risk is. I'm ahead of it. And the other thing in the Pam space was really session monitor. Right. Everybody wanted to watch every keystroke, every screen's scrape, all that kind of stuff. A lot of the new privilege access Mon management doesn't really require that it's nice to have feature. You kind of need it on the list, but is anybody really gonna implement it? That's the question. Right. And then, you know, if, if you do all that session monitor, does anybody ever go back and look at it? There's only so many hours in the day. >>How about passwordless access? You know? Right. I've heard people talk about that. Yeah. I mean, that's as a user, I can't wait, but >>It's somewhere we want to all go. Yeah. Right. We all want identity security to just disappear and be recognized when we log in. So the, the thing with password list is there's always a password somewhere and it's usually part of a registration, you know, action. I'm gonna register my device with a username password. And then beyond that, I can use my biometrics. Right. I wanna register my device and get a private key that I can put in my enclave. And I'll use that in the future. Maybe it's gotta touch ID. Maybe it doesn't. Right. So even though there's been a lot of progress made, it's not quote unquote, truly passwordless, there's a group industry standards group called Fido. Right. Which is fast identity online. And what they realized was these whole registration passwords. That's really a single point of failure. Cuz if I can't recover my device, I'm in trouble. Yeah. So they just did a, a new extension to sort of what they were doing, which provides you with much more of a, like an iCloud vault, right. That you can register that device in and other devices associated with that same iPad that you can >>Get you to it. If you >>Have to. Exactly. I had >>Another have all over the place here, but I, I want to ask about ransomware. It may not be your wheelhouse. Yeah. But back in the day, Jay, remember you used to cover tape. All the, all the backup guys now are talking about ransomware. AWS mentioned it today and they showed a bunch of best practices and things you can do air gaps. Wasn't one, one of 'em. Right. I was really surprised cuz that's all, every anybody ever talks about is air gaps. And a lot of times that air gaps that air gap could be a guess to the cloud. I guess I'm not sure. What are you guys seeing on ransomware >>Apps? You know, we've done a lot of great research around ransomware as a service and ransomware and, and you know, we just had some data come out recently that I think in terms of spending and, and spend and in as a result of the Ukraine, Russia war, that ransomware assessments rate number one. And so it's something that we encourage, you know, when we talk to vendors and in our services, in our publications that we write about taking advantage of those free strategic ransomware assessments, vulnerability assessments, right. As well, and then security and training ranked very highly as well. So we wanna make sure that all of these areas are being funded well to try and stay ahead of the curve. >>Yeah. I was surprised that not the air gaps on the list, that's all everybody >>Talks about. Well, you know, the, the old model for air gaping in the, the land days, the Noel days, you took your tapes home and put 'em in the sock drawer. >>Well, it's a form of air gap security and no one's gonna go there >>Clean. And then the internet came around >>Guys. Final question. I want to ask you guys, we kind zoom out. Great, great commentary by the way. Appreciate it. As the, we've seen this in many markets, a collection of tools emerge and then there's it's tool sprawl. Oh yeah. Right? Yeah. So cyber we're seeing trend now where Mon goes up on stage of all the E probably other vendors doing the same thing where they're organizing a platform on top of AWS to be this super platform. If you super cloud ability by building more platform thing. So we're saying there's a platform war going on, cuz customers don't want the complexity. Yeah. I got a tool, but it's actually making it more complex if I buy the other tool. So the tool sprawl becomes a problem. How do you guys see this? Do you guys see this platform emerging? I mean, tools won't go away, but they have to be >>Easier. Yeah. We do see a, a consolidation of functionality and services. And we've been seeing that, I think through a 20, 20 flat security survey that we released, that that was definitely a trend. And you know, that certainly happened for many companies over the last six to 24 months, I would say. And then platformization absolutely is something we talk 'em right. About all the time. So >>More M and a couple of years ago, I called the, the Amazon tool set in rector set. Yeah. Because it really required assembly. Yeah. And you see the emphasis on training here too, right? Yeah. You definitely need to go to AWS university to be competent. It >>Wasn't Lego blocks yet. No, it was a rector set. Very good distinction rules, you know, and, and you lose a few. It's >>True. Still too many tools. Right. You see, we need more consolidation. That's getting interesting because a lot of these companies have runway and you look, you look at sale point, its stock prices held up cuz of the Toma Bravo acquisition, but all the rest of the cyber stocks have been crushed. Yeah. You know, especially the high flyers, like a Senti, a one or a crowd strike, but yeah, just still M and a opportunity >>Itself. So platform wars. Okay. Final thoughts. What do you thinks happening next? What's what's your outlook for the, the next year or so? >>So in the, in the identity space, I'll talk about Phillip can cover cloud force. You know, it really is more consolidation and more adoption of things that are beyond simple SSO, right. It was, you know, just getting on the systems and now we really need to control what you're able to get to and who you are and do it as transparently as we possibly can because otherwise, you know, people are gonna lose productivity, right. They're not gonna be able to get to what they want. And that's what causes the C-suite to say, wait a minute, you know, DevOps, they want to update the product every day. Right. Make it better. Can they do that? Or did security get in the way people every once in a while I'll call security, the department of no, right? Yeah. Well, >>Yeah. They did it on stage. Yeah. They wanna be the department of yes, >>Exactly. And the department that creates additional value. If you look at what's going on with B to C or C IAM, consumer identity, that is all about opening up new direct channels and treating people like, you know, they're old friends, right. Not like you don't know 'em you have to challenge >>'em we always say you wanna be in the boat together. It sinks or not. Yeah. Right. Exactly. >>Phillip, >>Okay. What's your take? What's your outlook for the year? >>Yeah. I think, you know, something that we've been seeing as consolidation and integration, and so, you know, companies looking at from built time to run time investing in shift left infrastructure is code. And then also in the runtime detection makes perfect sense to have both the agent and agentless so that you're covering any of the gaps that might exist. >>Awesome. Jerry, Phillip, thanks for coming on the queue with IDC and sharing >>Your oh our pleasure perspective. >>Commentary, have any insights and outlook. Appreciate it. You bet. Thank you. Okay. We've got the great direction here from IDC analyst here on the queue. I'm John for a Dave, we're back more after this shirt break.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>Welcome back to Las Vegas. Live the cube. Yes, it's live in Las Vegas at the Bellagio. Lisa Martin, with Dave Alante, we are covering UI path forward for very excited to be here, talking with customers, UI path, employees, partners, lots of great conversations going on about automation and the acceleration that we're seeing, especially in the last 18 months. We've got two guests here with me today to talk about emerging technologies, specifically continuous process discovery. Please welcome Paula Katikia VP of product management at UI path and Layla Deleage CIO and digital officer at Coca Cola. Ladies, welcome to >>The program. Thank you. It's great to be here. So let's >>Talk about public. Let's start with you. Continuous process discovery. Define that for us. What does that mean? >>So process discovery has been, um, a concept that's been around for awhile, right? It's enterprises have a bunch of processes that are deployed and people are following them. Um, the concept of discovery has existed. What we're trying to do with continuous process discovery is enable you to identify the processes, figure out how to optimize them and then automate them once they're automated, we want to monitor them and then keep doing that cycle over and over again, using technology rather than having fill in, having people fill in paperwork and then having those processes go out of, um, out of, um, status, like right away, because they're just becoming stale with continuous process discovery. They don't become stale. You're getting that real time feedback loop and you're getting the processes to work and to end continuously. >>So I wonder if I could follow up on that because I remember when you guys made the acquisition of process gold. And so as somebody who's heavily involved in product management, how did you go about, I mean, it's been, sounds like it's seamless, but it never is. Right. But how did you go about integrating and making it appear as though it's just kind of part of the platform? >>I mean, there's a lot goes into that right. Process gold was a great technology to begin with. So it wasn't a huge stretch for us to take it and integrate it and make it part of the platform. Um, typically when we acquire companies, we look for product market fit. We look for a technology fit. We look for people fit and we had that with process gold. The other thing to add there is a process discovery, um, specifically with Parsis gold and automation go hand in hand, you can't having one without the other is kind of leaving half of your solution on the table and just focusing on understanding and not focusing on implementation. And so it was very easy to take that technology and make it part of the hyper automation platform. >>Well, the reason why I asked that question is because it sort of coincides with a customer's journey where you go from sort of a individual department. And then now you're saying, I always say pave the cow path. And I kind of take a process that I know I'll just implement that even might not be the best I'm going to repeat and takes you to a new realm. And so this is, to me, this is all about how incumbent companies, a hundred plus year old companies can actually be digital disruptors as opposed to being disrupted themselves. Right? A lot of smart people running these big companies. So last time we talked, you were relatively new inside of a year. So how's the journey going. And, and how does it tie in to some of the advancements that UI path has made? Yeah, >>Absolutely. So the journey is going great. I like to work to use accelerate. So I'm here to accelerate and transform and why we have to do it is so that we don't become obsolete and we continue to be relevant for our customers, for our employees. They're important and for our community. So the are doing a lot of finished running a lot of initiatives. When you look at being relevant for the customer, that means we have to transform the way we operate and our business models. We have to generate new revenue streams now that are enabled and based on data and technology, while you do that, you have to create efficiency internally. You cannot create great experiences with customers and you work with very monolithic and very old school, traditional processes or based off working and systems. So you have to make sure that you adapt and change and transform the way you work internally to meet the customer's needs and demand and generate these new business models. >>So our starting position was automation. We have to automate at an extreme speed, but we also wanted to go really far without automation, not just fast and hit with task automation and just automate these traditional 50, 60 year old processes, but have Doobie identify what else is there? There's a wealth of opportunity when you look at an end to end process. So that's where process mining as Polak described, comes into play. And actually we started affiliating with process mining during process gold. So your question around how the integration went, we actually went through that. I think the UI pads, one key value that they have, and they should never use is listening to the customer. So the got to get her with iPads. And we said, there's more to what we can do with automation. And we implemented process mining for one end to end process, amazing results, just one country, one end to end process, amazing results. But it's because of the partnership. We know what we need to achieve, but we have to do, and they know how to help us to get the technology up and running or adapt to technology and improve the technology. So that's where we are achieving outcomes. We are generating new business model, new revenue stream, automating internally re-skilling and up-skilling our people, which is extremely important that comes along with automation that redesign exciters sorry, but that redesign a work is >>Very important in the CEO's role is very important in that as well. I wanted to talk though about something that you just said with respect to the listening piece that you have is so good at this morning in the keynote. Mary said too, you know, all that, which was standing room only, which was amazing to see, um, in this day and age, but that they wanted to hear from customers. What are we doing? Right? What are we not doing that you want to see more of? What do you want to see less of? Talk to me about the direction and advice that you, as the CIO of Coca-Cola is able to provide to flock and the team about where you I've had this going, right. It's really on a very fast cadence. >>Absolutely. So as Coca-Cola TJ, we started the journey with two iPad, three years of work. Exactly. I was on the job and the second big technology decision I made was the iPad. And since then it was fear consistently think. But during our cab meeting, Daniel said something, he said, I'm not welcoming the request. He said, we welcome. He said, no, no, sorry. I am not welcoming. I'm requesting you to give us insight. And I think that's very critical. That's what we want to hear. At the end of the day, we are technologists. We are total leaders, but the are better taught leaders with our technology partners. So we want technology partners to show us the way sometimes. And with low code, no code type of approaches. And the evolution of the technology that UI path is, has been running since the past three years is helping us remove so many barriers. >>When it comes to people, they are listening to us in terms of the roadmap and what should be implemented and what should be prioritized VR, providing with them, our roadmap, our vision on where we want to go in automation and hugged battle. We want to integrate with other ecosystem and environments that we have. They are listening to us in terms of, for the existing products, what can be improved, what can work better? And we don't need a cab actually for you iPad to listen to us. We work hand in hand with two iPad team continuously be coil, you know, eight sometimes. So, and that's what we want them to continue to do. They are great technologists, as long as they continue to listen to us, they're going to be greater technology. >>Yeah. And I'll share my perspective on this, this, this, you know, these partnerships actually make us build better products, right? We get to, this is how we stay ahead of the curve by listening to our customers, because they're the ones who are doing the implementations. They understand how our product works. We can design it, we can test it. But that's the extent to which we can go once they implement it is when we know what's working, what's not working. And how do we take that feedback and make better products. So it's a two-way street. We love hearing from them constantly. >>You have to decode what the customer is saying sometimes, right? Like Steve jobs said, yeah, if you just ask the customer what they want, you'll never build, you know, something that's game changing the world changing. And so, so you have to talk to Layla, you get the input from COVID, Coca-Cola maybe many and then other customers to figure out, okay, how can I apply this? So that actually can scale and meet the needs of many customers. Not just so, because otherwise you end up being, you know, a custom development shop, which ironically is what you guys were 20 years ago. Right? So it's kind of some art involved in the science of listening. Isn't it? >>There is definitely, I mean, most of our job as product managers is to design the product, right? It's very much art and the feedback that we get from Layla and others, it really just helps us focus on a vision. But, you know, keeping up with new technology trends, figuring out how to figuring out how to, um, bring AI into our product vision and looking beyond what we're being told and asked for and looking forward at what the next trends are going to be in technology is what helps us continue to innovate. So it's both, it's the balance of what we're hearing, but also technologies. And what's possible with what's available >>Question for you. You said three years ago, you guys brought in UI path, right after you joined the company as it's CIO, why U I path, clearly you looked at some of the other folks, you mentioned that company that they acquired, but what in your mind differentiates what they're able to deliver on the partnership side and the technology side? >>Yeah. Very important question. We have a definition for a technology partner for us, the technology partner needs to meet criteria of innovating. So how much do you invest in innovation? And Daniel says, I don't even know the number, right? So because we want them to be on the forefront. Sometimes they have to pull us and sometimes we have to pull them. The second one is very important for a company to be successful in automation or in any advanced technology, you have to build intellectual property within your enterprise. And we did not want to art source technology. We wanted to insource technology and we asked you, I pad, if they would be reeling to co-innovate, co-develop collaborate with us. They were the only ones who allowed us to build the intellectual property within my enterprise, because that's the way I'm going to innovate. And that's the way I'm going to help product leaders like Pollock to create better products. Right? So, and the third one is just building expertise. Low-code no-code the technology company needs to, you know, wait where they remove some of the barriers for me to find the skills or develop talent, how easy it is to find the talent and skills to develop this technology. Right. And what, what does the technology company do to develop skills? So these are a few criteria that we have, and then when the company takes all of those, they are in, >>I'm interested in, um, to kind of shift the conversation. If I may, in your, your role, it's not uncommon to see a CIO and a chief digital officer together, but it's quite uncommon at a, at a large firm like Coca-Cola. And, and I'm wondering, is that how the company, cause your group sees information in digital? Is that how the company's organized? You know, that you plug into somebody who has that to a role. Can you talk about, >>Yeah, absolutely. So cocoli too. Jake is within the Coca-Cola system. We are one of the leading butlers within the Coca-Cola system. The reason I merged the two roles is to be successful in the digital era. When you have the digital and it separated. If it goes a little slower, you can not be successful in digital and you cannot be successful in generating new revenue streams or new business models. So you have to orchestrate that evolution and transformation of it and the rest of the business together. And that's why I merged the two roles. We are unique as Coca-Cola >>Merged them. You say you merged those roles, like, did you come at it from the, where you digital first and then CIO first >>Digital first. Okay. Great point. I built from scratch and started with the digital strategy. And then we went into defining what roles, what skills do we need? And then we redefined, what are the improvements we need on the it side? But it was all digital product based >>Because I think, uh, I think it would be much harder for a CIO, let alone a woman CIO, no offense, but I don't think there's any offense there, but oh, she's trying to do a land grab. I could see that happening, but the digital officer title, because that's the hot title and it's the visionary. Right. And it's a lot of times it's undefined. Yeah. So that's that and that, and that that's the structure of the organization. So you roll up into it. >>Uh, so yeah, because I came into the ex-con role. I had the privilege to kind of shape it from scratch. >>Exactly. And >>Like Shankar was talking about hidden brain and all the change this morning, it was a change in terms of how are we going to approach digital? It was a change in terms of all the people who are part of the company and people who have been in technology or it before right now, the expectations are very different. You have to be product organization, you have to be outcome centric. You have to generate the revenue streams. So it's very different from the world of it. I think any it or any technology leader can do this, if they are willing to transform themselves first and then their organization, and then they can transform the rest of the company, >>Chief digital officer data is a big part of your role. You're not the chief data officer, >>The organization, that's >>Part of your, okay, so the CDL reports into, okay, and that individual sure is responsible for governance and compliance. >>Well look, the data management, data governance, the foundation, and all the database solutions, I think >>You got it right. I think this idea of creating stovepipes, it just it's, it's not as productive and it's harder to make decisions that are aligned with the organization's goals, >>Boulder. So we're going to disrupt further. Our goal now is to create platforms and then democratize the platforms. So our operating partners can learn the new skills and they can develop their own use cases on the platforms. And that way they'll go much, further and much faster in terms of the generational new revenue, streams, changing, operating models, data and technology. I call it the new operating system of any business and everybody must learn >>Well. And that's what I want to ask you about, because if you think about, uh, uh, a company and incumbent, like Coca-Cola your processes over the years have in your data, maybe they were organized around the bottlers or the distribution channel, et cetera. And that might not be the best process. So you have to take a look at that and then use process mining to say, actually, what is the best process, reinvent yourself? Okay. >>Absolutely VRD and re-engineering and reinventing in a lot of places. Process mining helped us in short order to cash cycle. Everybody, every company has ordered to cash process. We took an order to cash process, which we recently standardized, by the way we thought we did. And every process mining told us that very few times you go through the happy path. Most of the times you go out of the happy path. So gave us a lot of tangible outcomes where we improve the cycle time. And it's an interesting process because you touch the customer it's impacts your delivery and your commitments to the customer. And it makes life easier for the employees. When you improve the process, this is only one piece VR also transforming the way we are interacting with our customers using digital means and digital channel. But one thing is very valuable with us while we do all of this staying hybrid is very important. Like with everything else, they do that human touch and personal relationship with our customers and consumers is invaluable. So we going to keep that doesn't matter how digital we go or how much technology we implement. They're going to keep the customer and consumer connect the most valuable asset that we have. >>Absolutely. It is. I'll go ahead. >>I was going to say, this is the one thing that, that we think about when we're designing our products, right? It's how can process my mining help you optimize your workflows, such that you can spend more time with the customer such that you can spend more time and get back to them faster. >>Yeah, that's critical. They, I always say the employee experience is inextricably linked to the customer experience. And so what you just talked about, you talked about so much stuff that I'd love to unpack. We probably don't have time, but coming in as with a transformation mindset, one being, you mentioned, you know, leaders need to be willing to embrace that. Obviously you were, but as a CIO, >>Working with UI path, you're really helping to redefine work. And also that customer experience, to an extent, how's your iPod helped facilitate that. So because they are listening and they are willing to partner with, and I think the most importantly, they're going to be part of our outcomes. They care about our outcomes. And going back to your question, how do we select a technology partner? That was one of the critical items. Outcomes are very critical. If there's no outcome, there's no point in it are not doing technology for the sake of doing it. We are, yes. We are all excited with what technology can bring and removing barriers very important, which is a huge, another huge topic. But if you don't generate an outcome it's meaningless and you AIPAC is willing to understand the outcome we are generating. So it's less of a commercial discussion, more of a technology and outcome conversation. >>So whether it's an customer outcome or an employee outcome or a cash outcome, financial outcome, I think that's why we have been successful. And they have been on the journey with you, iPad process mining. I think they are one of the very few clients, right? Customers of UI path who are using it. And because we are very progressive organization, you AIPAC is listening to our feedback and implementing back to your earlier question, you have so many customers who do you listen, right? So when you are progressive and when you really know what you are doing, you're also pulling your iPad, a big technology company into a direction that is more meaningful. So they listen to us in terms of what to improve with process mining. And that's why we were able to achieve the outcomes. And now they are listening to us further on further improvements on process mining so that we can capitalize on further outcomes and benefits of process mining >>In order to cash is common use cases. So what, what, uh, were there any diamonds in the rough, or do you suspect there are with, >>We already realized, yes. We realized multiple tangible outcomes. We discussed this with Polak earlier today. One of them is some very interesting, I'm not able to share, but the most critical one is be focused on improving cash cycle. It's scent. You can imagine extremely full flow business, even within FMCG, right? We as Coca-Cola system, we are an extremely flow business. It's an instant consumption business. Hence your delivery and cash cycles are very different compared to other industries. So we said, we want to improving cash. We discovered that the improved, the invoice due date change, which impacts the payment terms by 20%, we improved credit limits approvals by 5% by removing unnecessary approval steps. We realized there were unnecessary approvals. These two are directly impacting our customers as well because it's waiting in somebody's queue to handle those approvals. And the customer is not getting to delay delivery because it's payment, payment and delivery go hand in hand. >>And the third one is, and I'm not able to articulate it exact outcome, but it's a very critical day, every day gain on getting cash. So it's a cash game. The next big outcome is the cycle time improvements. So we significantly improve the cycle time of the process. And this means efficiency for our employees. We are making life easier for them. The last one is again, a tangible one 30,000 hours back in terms of productivity, one process, one country, 30,000 hours. And that translates into exactly that translates into benefit for the customer. You increase customer satisfaction, you increase employee satisfaction. 'cause you remove all the non-available for it. So going back to Pollock's point around continuous discovery, that's why we love it. It's like good old lean six Sigma lean six Sigma is exactly that you continuously, you want to continuously improve the process. You don't do it once with process mining. We don't want to do it once. We want to do it continuously, but this time with automation, >>But before we go, I'm the lone male on the panel. So I have to ask. So, so you CIO seat, chief digital role, very uncommon, let alone uncommon for a woman. Big time product management person. Okay. That's cool check. Right? You've been in the industry for a while now, a celebrity on the, on the cube and elsewhere. So has the pandemic, how has the pandemic affected the whole women in tech trend? Has it slowed it down? Has it accelerated? We were talking earlier about the working moms feeling like way stressed out more than the working dads, double 30% versus 15%. Has the pandemic in your minds altered in any way, was women in tech meme? How so positive. Negative. >>So we are trying to turn the negative into a positive. It is negative. Absolutely. I think it's impacted everybody, all, all women in all industries and in all areas of operation and workforce women in technology is already a very slim, right? It's a very tiny layer within any company and out there in the society. And unfortunately the challenges that came with COVID impacted and some of them had to leave and they couldn't stick around. Right. So we are trying to turn that into positive. As a digital function, we have a big give back initiative. It's a priority of the digital team. I'll be talking about that very in, in, and our technology removes barriers. So we have to turn this into a positive, yes, COVID has impacted everybody personally and directly or indirectly. But now with technology, we can remove barriers. We have now flexible working and hybrid working models, being ramped up across all geographies and all industries and all companies, technology removes barriers. >>We can teach technology to a lot of people and our communities and they can join because we have huge skill gaps in technology that would sat is we have huge scarcity of skills in technology. And we have very few people, but we are talking about women dropping out or any type of minor to dropping out, right? So we can leverage and improve and turn it around. I hope we'll accomplish to do that. We started doing that in our company and in Turkey. And we are trying to expand that across multiple other countries with NGO partnerships, helping women to gain certain skills so that they can join the economy again from wherever they are. >>And from my point of view, I think there are two aspects to it. As Layla said, it has affected women a little bit more, but I've also seen, in some cases it has leveled the playing field a little bit because there's, you know, everybody's on zoom. The kids show up on zoom cameras for men, just as much as they do for women. So it helps shine a light on things that we would normally go through that nobody would know about. And I thought that was a really cool outcome to some degree of this. You know, my manager prom has little kids and they'd be in his background all the time, just as my little kids would be by background. And I'm like, oh wow. So you know how it feels to be the caregiver at home. And I thought, I thought that was a positive outcome of the whole being a female in technology. I liked that >>That's something that I hadn't thought about in terms of leveling the playing field like that there's in this situation, there are both positives and negatives. I like how you're seeing the playing field level a bit more and how you're at. Coca-Cola looking to, how can we turn this negative into a positive lots of opportunities there we uncovered a lot in the last, I'm going to guess 20 minutes talking about continuous process discovery, all the way to women in technology, how you're each doing that and what your perspectives are. I wish we had more time. We could keep going, but ladies, thank you for joining David. >>It's been a pleasure >>For Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin live in Las Vegas at the Bellagio UI path forward for it. We'll be right back.

>>From around the globe. It's the queue cover >>Space and cyber security >>Symposium 2020 hosted by Cal poly. >>Hello and welcome to the space and cybersecurity symposium 2020 hosted by Cal poly and the cube I'm chilling for a, your host. We have a great session here. Space, cyber security, the department of defense perspective. We have bond Google hall, director of C four ISR directorate office of the undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment for the DOD and Chris Henson, technical director space and weapons, cybersecurity solutions for the national security agency. Gentlemen, thank you for taking the time for this awesome session. Thank you, John. Thank you. So we're gonna talk about the perspective of the DOD relative to space cybersecurity, a lot, going on congestion, contention, freedom, evolution innovation. So Paul, I'd like to have you start with your opening statement on how you see the space cybersecurity perspective, Don, thanks for the intro. Really appreciate it. First, let me give my thanks to Cal poly for a convening, the space and cybersecurity symposium this year, you know, and despite the pandemic, the organization and the content delivery spreading impressive, I really foot stomping. >>What can possibly be done with a number of these virtual platforms? This has been awesome. Thanks for the opportunity. I also want to recognize my colleague, Chris Nissen from NSA was actually assigned to our staff that LSD, but he brings both policy and technical perspective in this whole area. So I think you'll, you'll find his commentary, uh, and positions on things very refreshing or for today's seminar. Now space cyber security is a pretty interesting terminology for us all. Uh, cyber security means protecting against cyber threats and it's really more than just computers here on earth, right? Uh, space is the newest war fighting domain, and cybersecurity's perhaps even more of a challenge in this domain that and others. Uh, I'm sure it'll turn journal Thompson and major journals Shaw discuss the criticality of this new dorm space force. It's the newest military service in the earlier sessions and they're at the risk of repeating what they already addressed. >>Let me start by talking about what space means to DOD and what we're doing directly from my vantage point as part of the acquisition and sustainment arm of the Pentagon. Uh, what I want to share with you today is how the current space strategy ties into the national defense strategy and supports the department's operational objectives. As the director of CFRI SAR. I have come to understand how the integration of CFRI Sarcic. Billy is a powerful asset to enhance the lethality of the joint war fighter. Secretary Lord, our boss, the sec, the undersecretary for acquisition and sustainment is diligent in her pursuit to adapt and modernize acquisition processes, to influence the strategy and to focus our efforts domain are to make our objectives a reality. I think first and foremost, we are building a more lethal force. This joint force will project low Valley and custom contested environments and across all domains through an operationally integrated and resiliency for ISR infrastructure. >>We are also called debating our alliances, deepening interoperability, which is very important in a future fight and collab, collaboratively planning with those partner with us in the fight most significantly for our work in acquisition and sustainment, we continue to optimize the department for greater performance and affordability through reform of the acquisition process. Now space is our newest war fighting domain. And while it is indeed unique, it shares many common traits with the others land, air and sea all are important to the defense of the U S in conflict. No doubt about this. They will be contested and they must be defended. One domain will not win future conflicts in a joint operation in a future fight in the future conflict. They must all succeed. I see three areas being key to a DOD strategic success in space, one, developing our whole of government approach in close partnership with the private sector and our allies to prioritizing our investments in resiliency, innovation, and adaptive operations, and third responding rapidly and effectively to leverage emerging technologies and seize opportunities to advance your strengths, partnerships and alliances. >>Let me emphasize that space is increasingly congested and tested and demanded as essential delete Valley operational effectiveness and the security of our nation. Now the commercialization of space offers a broad set of investments in satellite technology, potential opportunities to leverage those investments and pathways to develop cost efficient space architecture, where the department and the nation. It's funny, there's a new race, a race for space. If you will, between commercial companies buying for dominance of space. Now the joint staff within DOD is currently building an operational construct to employ and engage as a unified force, coordinated across all domains. We call it the joint, all domain command and control. It is the framework that is under development to allow us to conduct integrated operations in the future. The objective of Jesse too is to provide the war fighter access to the decision making information while providing mission assurance of the information and resilience of the underlying terrestrial air in space networks that support them operationally. >>six to maintain seamless integration, adaptation, and employment of our capability. To sense signal connect, transmit, process control, direct, and deliver lethal capabilities against the enemy. We gain a strategic advantage through the integration of these capabilities across all the domains, by providing balance bowel space, awareness, horse protection, and weapons controlled and deployment capabilities. Now successfully any ratings, the systems and capabilities will provide our war fighters overwhelming superiority on the battlefield environment, challenged by near peer adversaries, as well as non state actors in space. The character of its employment is changing, driven by increasing demands, not just by DOD, but by the commercial sector as well. You know, more and more, uh, we see greater use of small satellite systems to address a myriad of emerging questions, ubiquitous communications, awareness, sensor diversity, and many more. Uh, as I said before, the commercial world is pioneering high rate production of small satellites in our efforts to deploy hundreds, if not thousands of nodes space X, Darlene constellation is one example. >>Another one is Amazon's Kiper, uh, Kuyper just received FCC approval to deploy like over 3000 of these different notes. While a number of these companies continue to grow. Some have struggled. They some pointed as one web, uh, nevertheless, the appetite remains strong and DOD is taking advantage of these advances to support our missions. We are currently exploring how to better integrate the DOD activities involving small satellites under the small satellite coordinating activity, scholarly call it. We want to ensure collaboration and interoperability to maximize efficiency in acquisition and operation. When we started this activity on over a year and a half ago, we documented over 70 plus separate small, small sat programs within DOD. And now we've developed a very vibrant community of interest surrounding a small satellites. Now, part of the work we have identified nine focus areas for further development. These are common areas to all systems and by continuing to expand on these, our plan is they enable a standard of practice that can be applied across all of the domains. >>This includes lawn services, ground processing distribution, and of course, a topic of interest to the symposium space security and Chris we'll, we'll talk more about that being the Houston expert, uh, in this area. Uh, one challenge that we can definitely start working on today is workforce development. Cybersecurity's unique as it straddles STEM and security and policy, the trade craft is different. And unfortunately I've seen estimates recently, so suggesting a workforce gap in the next several years, much like the STEM fields, uh, during the next session, I am a part of a panel with precedent, Armstrong, Cal poly, and Steve Jake's the founder of the national security space association to address workforce development. But for this panel, I'll look forward to having further dialogue surrounding space, opera security with Chris and John. Thank you, John >>Bob, thank you for that whole thing, Steven. Yes. Workforce gaps. We need the new skill space is here. Thank you very much. Chris Henson, technical director of space and weapons, cybersecurity solutions for the national security agency. Your statement, >>Thank you for having me. Uh, I'm one of several technical leaders in space at the national security agency. And I'm currently on a joint duty assignment at the office of under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment. I work under mr. GUMA hot in the C four ISR area, but almost 63 years ago on the 4th of October, 1957, Sputnik was the first artificial satellite launched by the Soviet union in space. History was made in each of you can continue to write future space history in your careers. And just like in 1957, the U S isn't alone in space to include our close partnerships and longterm activities with organizations like the Japanese space agency, the European space agency, and, uh, the Canadian space agency, just to name a few. And when we tackle cybersecurity per space, we have to address, address the idea that the communications command and control, uh, and those mission datas will transverse networks owned and operated by a variety of partners, not only.go.mil.com.edu, et cetera. We need to have all the partners address the cyber effects of those systems because the risk excepted by one is shared by all and sharing cyber best practices, lessons learned, uh, data vulnerabilities, threat data, mitigation, mitigation procedures, all our valuable takeaways, uh, in expanding this space community, improving overall conditions for healthy environment. So thank you for having me, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you and your audience. And I look forward to the discussion questions. Thank you. >>Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Bob. Okay. I mean open innovation, the internet, you see plenty of examples. The theme here is partners, commercial government. It's going to take a lot of people and tech companies and technologies to make space work. So we asked my first question, Bonnie, we'll start with you is what do you see as the DOD his role in addressing cybersecurity in space? Uh, it's real, uh, it's a new frontier. Um, it's not going away. It's only going to get more innovative, more open, more contested. It seems like a lot to do there. So what's your role in addressing cyber security in space? >>I think our role is to be the leader in developing and only is it the strategy, but the, uh, the implementation plan is to ensure a full of cybersecurity. If you look at the national cyber cyber strategy, I think publishing 2018 calls for like-minded countries, industry academia, and civil society. Once you mentioned John, the support technology development, uh, digital safety policy advocacy, and research you here today, and those listening are fulfilling their strategy. When you, when you develop, enable use cyber hygiene products, as examples of capabilities, you're pushing the goal to fruition. When you know, what's on your network patron network backup, you're in encrypt your network, you're hardening and preventing cyber attacks. And we in government academia in the case of Cal poly civil networks and in commercial companies, we all benefit from doing that cyber security. Uh, and I think Chris will, we'll, we'll definitely back me up on this more than passwords encryption or pharma. It's truly a mindset and a culture of enabling missions to succeed in assured in a resilient fashion. >>Chris, you're taking reaction to, to the cybersecurity challenge involved here, >>That's it, it's starting really at the highest level of governments. We have, uh, you know, the, the recent security policy directive five that just came out just a couple of days ago, recognize all the factors of cybersecurity that need to come into play. And probably the most important outcome of that as mr said, is the leadership role and that leadership, uh, blends out very well into partnership. So partnership with industry partnership with academia partnership, with, uh, other people that are exploring space. And those partnerships lend itself very naturally to sharing cybersecurity issues, topics as we come up with best practices as we come up with mitigation strategies. And as we come up with vulnerabilities and share that information, the, uh, we're not going to go alone in space, just like we're probably not going to go alone in many other industries or areas, uh, that the DOD has to be, uh, involved in many spectrums of deploying to space. >>And that deployment involves as Mr. Guzman said, encryption authentication, knowing what's on the network, knowing the, the fabric of that network. And if nothing else, this, uh, this, uh, internet of things and work from home environment that we've, uh, partaken of these last few months has even explored and expanded that notion even more dramatically as we have people dial in from all over the different, uh, locations, well space will be that natural node that, uh, natural, uh, next network and mesh involvement that we'll have to protect and explore on not just from a terrestrial involvement, but all segments of it. Th the comm segment, the space vehicle and the ground portion, >>No bond. We talked about this in our other segment, um, around with the president of Cal poly, but the operating models of the space force and the DOD and getting space. It's a software defined world, right? So cybersecurity is a real big issue. Cause you have an operating model that's requiring software to power, these low hanging satellites. That's just an extension to the network. It's distributed computing, know what this is. If you understand what technology we do in space, it's no different, it's just a different environment. So it's software defined that just lends itself well to hacking. I mean, if I'm a hacker I'm going, Hey, why not just take out a satellite and crash it down or make the GPS do something different? I mean, it's definitely an attack vector. This is a big deal. It's not just like getting credentials that are cashed on a server. You gotta really protect, >>Right? Because in one hand it space will carry not only, uh, uh, you know, for local national security information. Uh, but the, uh, I feel like at the economic wellbeing, the financial state of allowed a lot of countries and institutions, you know, more and more John lb, they'll be using space assets to, uh, uh, to make, uh, make, make all that happen. Right. So, and if you look at the, you talk, you mentioned the attack vectors in space, you know, it's not just the computers in the ground, but if you look at the whole life cycle for satellite systems in space, you know, that the, the, the tasking that you need to do that the command, the controlling of the vehicle, the data that comes down in the ground, even when you launch the, the birds, the satellites, you know, they only need to be protected because they're all somewhat vulnerable to, uh, to hacking, uh, to cyber attacks. Especially as we grow into commercialization space, it's going to be a lot more people out there playing in this world. It's going to be a lot more companies out there. And, you know, it's hard to track, uh, uh, you know, the, the potential of, of, of foreign influences as an example, and therefore the potential of being vulnerable in terms of the cyber threat. >>Gentlemen, I like you guys said to move on to this leadership role, you mentioned that you want to be a leader. I get it. The DOD is department of defense. That's a new frontier to defend war time zone. You mentioned war time opportunity potentially, but how do you guys assist that's term hat to getting done? Because there's public and private space operations happening, um, there's security challenge. What does being a leader mean? And how does the DOD department of defense assist driving the public and private? Do you lead from a project standpoint, you lead from a funding standpoint? Is it architectural? I mean, you're talking about now a new end to end architecture. It's not just cloud it's on premise. It's in devices, it's offloaded with new AI technology and Nicks and devices. It's IOT, it's all, this is all new, this is all new. What does it mean for the DOD to be a leader and how do you assist others to get involved? And what does that mean? >>Yeah, I think, uh, the one hand, you know, DOD used to lead, uh, in terms of, uh, uh, being the only source of funding for a lot of, uh, highly developmental efforts. Uh, we're seeing a different story in space. Again, I keep going back to the commercialization of space. We're seeing a lot more players, right? So in many ways >>Ally's commercial companies are actually legally leading the R and D uh, of a lot of different technologies. So we want to take, we certainly want to take advantage of that. So from a leadership standpoint, I think we, we, Lucia can come in, you know, by partnering a lot more with, with the commercial companies, uh, in 2022, the DOD released the defense, uh, uh, space strategy as an example that highlights the threats, the challenges and opportunities the United States has faced by, by sending a example of how we, how we, uh, how we counter, uh, the threats that are out there, not just the DOD, but, but the disability and the commercial sector as well. Our current conditions are strong, but we want to use four lines of effort to meet our challenges and capitalize on our desire state space, uh, lines of effort include building a comprehensive military badges space, integrating space into a national joint and combined operations. Like I mentioned before, shaping that strategic environment and cooperating with allies, partners, and industry and other U S governmental agencies, departments, and agencies to advance the cost of space to take full advantage of what space can provide us, uh, in DOD, uh, and the nation. Chris has a domain. Now, what's your take on all that? >>That's because again, it's going to take more people, >>More diverse, potentially more security >>Halls. What's your view on it? >>Well, let's, let's look at how innovation and new technologies can help us in these areas. So, uh, and, and mentioned it a couple of topics that you hit on already. One of the areas that we can improve on is certainly in the, uh, the architecture, uh, where we look at a zero trust architecture, one of the NIST standards that's come about where it talks about the authentication, uh, the need to know a granular approach, this idea of being able to protect, not just data, but the resources and how people can get access to those, whether they're coming in through an identification, authentication Prudential, or, uh, other aspects of, uh, the, the idea of not just anybody should be able to have access to data or anybody should have access once they're on the inside of the network. So that zero trust architecture is, is one approach where we can show some leadership and guidance. >>Another area is in, uh, a topic that you touched on as well was in the software area. So some innovations are coming on very rapidly and strong in this artificial intelligence and machine learning. So if we can take this AI and ML and apply it to our software development areas, they can parse so much information very quickly. And, uh, you know, this vast array of code that's going into system nowadays, and then that frees up our human, uh, explicit talent and developers that can then look at other areas and not focus on minor bawling to Beverly fix a vulnerability. Uh, they, they can really use their unique skills and talents to come up with a better process, a better way, and let the artificial intelligence and machine learning, find those common problems, those, those unknown, hidden lines of code that, uh, get put into a software alarm Prairie, and then pull down over and over again from system to system. So I think between, uh, an architecture leadership role and employee innovation are two areas that we can show, uh, some benefits and process improvement to this whole system. >>That's a great point, Chris, and you think about just the architectural computer architecture, you know, S you know, network attached storage is an advantage software defined there. You could have flash all flash arrays for storage. You could have multiple cores on a device and this new architecture, offloads things, and it's a whole new way to gain efficiencies. I mean, you got Intel, you got Nvidia, you've got armed all the processors all built in. Um, so there's definitely been commercial best practices and benefits to a new kind of architecture that takes advantage of these new things. It's just, just efficiencies. Um, but this brings up the whole supply chain conversation. I want to get your thoughts on this, because there is talk about predatory investments and access and tactics to gain supply chain access to space systems, your thoughts. >>Yeah. It's a serious threat and not just for, uh, the U S uh, space. So supply chain, if you will, is the supply chain. And I says, you know, writ large, I think, uh, I think it's a, it's a, it's a threat that's, that's real, we're we're seeing today. I just saw an example recently, uh, involving, uh, our, I think our launch services were, there was a, uh, a foreign, uh, threat that was those trying to get into a true through with predatory investments. Uh, so, uh, it is something that we need to, uh, be aware of it it's happening, uh, and is continuing to happen. Uh, it's an easy way to gain access, to, uh, do our IP. Uh, and, uh, so it's something that we, uh, are serious about in terms of, uh, awareness and, and countering >>Chris, your thoughts. I mean, we've see, I mean, I'm an open source guy. I was seen it when I grew up in the industry in the eighties, open source became a revolution, but with that, it enabled new tactics for, um, state sponsored attacks on it that became a domain in of itself. Um, that's well-documented and people talk about that all the time in cyber. Now you have open innovation with hardware, software connected systems. This is going to bring supply chain nightmare. How do you track it all? Who's got what software and what device, where the chip come from, who made it, this is the potential is everywhere. How do you see the, these tactics, whether it's a VC firm from another country or this, that, and the other thing startup. >>Yeah. So when we see, when we see coal companies being purchased by foreign investors, and, you know, we can get blocked out of those, whether it's in the food industry, or if it's in a microchip, then that microchip could be used in a cell phone or a satellite or an automobile. So all of our industries that have these companies that are being purchased, or a large born investment influx into those, you know, that could be suspect. And we, we have to be very careful with those, uh, and, and do the tracking of those, especially when those, uh, some of those parts of mechanisms are coming from off shore. And then going again, going back to, uh, the space policy directive five, it calls out for better supply chain, resource management, the tracking, the knowing the pedigree and the, the quantitative of ability of knowing where those software libraries came from, where the parts came from and the tracking and delivery of that from an end to end system. >>And typically when we have a really large vendor, they can, they can do that really well. But when we have a subcontractor to a subcontractor, to a subcontractor, their resources may not be such that they can do that. Try tracking in mitigation for counterfeits or fraudulent materials going into our systems. So it's a very difficult challenge, and we want to ensure as best we can that as we ingest those parts, as we ingest those software libraries and technologies into the system, that, uh, before we employ them, we have to do some robust testing. And I don't want to say that the last line of defense, but that certainly is a mechanism for finding out, do the systems perform as they stated, uh, on a test bench or a flat set, whatever the case may be before we actually deploy it. And then we're relying on the output or the data that comes from that, that system that may have some corrupt or suspect parts in it. >>Great point, this federal grant, >>The problem with space systems is kind of, you know, is once you, once you launch the bird or the sunlight, uh, your access to it is, is diminished significantly, right? Unless you, you go up there and take it down. Uh, so, you know, kind of to Chris's point, we need to be able to test all the different parts of insurer that is performing as, as described there ass, I spent as specified, uh, with, with good knowledge that it's, uh, it's, uh, it's trustworthy. Uh, and, uh, so we that all on the ground before we, we take it up to launch it. >>It's funny. You want agility, you want speed and you want security, and you want reliability and risk management all aggressive, and it's a technical problem. It says it's a business model problem. I'd love to get real quick. Before we jump into some of the more workforce and gap issues on the personnel side, have you guys should just take a minute to explain quickly what's the federal view. If you had to kind of summarize the federal view of the DOD and the roll with it wants to take, so all the people out there on the commercial side or students out there who are, you know, wanting to jump in, what is the current modern federal view of space cybersecurity. >>Chris, why don't you take that on I'll follow up. Okay. Uh, I don't know that I can give you the federal view, but I can certainly give you the department of defense. That cybersecurity is extremely important. And as our vendors and our suppliers, uh, take on a very, very large and important role, one area that we're looking at improving on is a cyber certification maturity model, where we, where we look at the vendors and how they implement an employee cyber hygiene. So that guidance in and of itself shows the emphasis of cyber security that when we want to write a contract or a vendor, uh, for, for a purchase, that's going to go into a space system. We'd like to know from a third party audit capability, can that vendor, uh, protect and defend to some extent the amount that that part or piece or software system is going to have a cyber protection already built into it from that vendor, from the ground floor up before it even gets put into a larger system. >>So that shows a level of the CMMC process that we've thought about and, uh, started to employ, uh, beginning in 2021 and will be further built on in, in the out years. How, how important the DOD takes that. And other parts of the government are looking at this, in fact, other nations are looking at the CMMC model. So I think it shows a concern in very many areas, uh, not just in the department of defense that they're going to adopt an approach like this. Uh, so it shows the, the pluses and the benefits of a cybersecurity model that, uh, all can build on boggy reaction. Yeah, I'll just, uh, I'll just add to that, John, you, you, you, you asked earlier about, you know, how do we, uh, track, uh, commercial entities or, or people in the space and cyber security domains? Uh, I can tell you that, uh, at least my view of it, you know, space and cyber security are new, it's exciting, it's challenging a lot technical challenges there. So I think in >>Terms of attracting the right people, personnel to work those areas, uh, I think it's, it's not only intellectually challenging, uh, but it's important for, for the dependency that NASA States, uh, and it's important for, for, for economic security, uh, writ large for, for us as well. So I think, uh, in terms of a workforce and trying to get people interested in, in those domains, uh, I hope that they see the same thing we do in terms of, of the challenges and the opportunities it presents itself in the future. >>Awesome. I love your talk on intro track there falling. You mentioned, uh, the three key areas of DOD sec success, developing a government whole government approach to partnership with the private sector. I think that's critical and the allies prioritizing the right investments on resilience, innovation, adaptive operations, and responding to rapidly to effectively emerging technology. So you can be fast, all think are all things. I all, all those things are relevant. So given that, I want to get your thoughts on the defense space strategy in 2020, the DOD released dispense defense space, strategy, highlighting threats, and challenges and opportunities. How would you summarize those threats and those challenges and opportunities? What are the, what are those things that you're watching in the defense space area? Right. >>Well, I think, I think I saw, as I said before, of course, as well, you know, uh, or, or seeing that a space will be highly contested, uh, because it's a critical element in our, in our war fighting construct, uh, Dwayne, a future conflict, I think we need to, to win space as well. So when you, when you look at our near peer adversaries, there's a lot of efforts, uh, in trying to, to, to take that advantage away from the United States. So, so the threat is real, uh, and I think it's going to continue to evolve and grow. Uh, and the more we use space, both commercial and government, I think you're going to see a lot more when these threads some AFAs itself, uh, in, in forms of cyber, cyber attacks, or even kinetic attacks in some cases as needed. Uh, so yeah, so with the, the, the threat is need growing, uh, space is congested, as we talked about, it will continually be contested in the future as well. So we need to have, uh, like we do now in, in, in all the other domains, a way to defend it. And that's what we're working on with India, with the, how do we pilot with tech, our assets in space, and how do we make sure that the data information that traverses through space assets are trust 40, um, and, uh, and, and, and free of any, uh, uh, interference >>Chris, exciting time. I'm your, if you're in technology, um, this is crossing many lines here, tech society will war time, defense, new areas, new tech. I mean, it's security, it's intoxicating at many levels, because if you think about it, it's not one thing. It's not one thing anymore. It spans a broader spectrum, these opportunities. >>Yeah. And I, and I think that expansion is, is a natural outgrowth from, as our microprocessors and chips and technology continue to shrink smaller and smaller. You know, we, we think of our, our cell phones and our handheld devices and tablets, and so on that have just continued to, uh, get embedded in our everyday society, our everyday way of life. And that's a natural extension when we start applying those to space systems. When we think of smallsats and cube sets and the technology that's, uh, can be repurposed into, uh, a small vehicle and the cost has come down so dramatically that, you know, we, we can afford to get a rapid experiments, rapid, um, exploitations and, and different approaches in space and learn from those and repeat them very quickly and very rapidly. And that applies itself very well to an agile development process, dev sec ops, and this notion of spins and cycles and refreshing and re uh, addressing priorities very quickly so that when we do put a new technology up, that the technology is very lean and cutting edge, and hasn't been years and years in the making, but it's, uh, relevant and new, and the, uh, the cybersecurity and the vulnerabilities of that have to be addressed because of, and allow that DevSecOps process to take place so that we can look at those vulnerabilities and get that new technology and those new, new experiments and demonstrations in space and get lessons learned from them over and over again. >>Well, that brings us to the next big topic I want to spend the remainder of our time on that is workforce this next generation. If I wasn't so old, I would quit my job and I would join medially. It's so much, it's a fun, it's exciting. And it's important. And this is what I think is a key point is that cybersecurity in and of itself has got a big gap of shortage of workers, nevermind, adding space to it. So this is, uh, the intersection of space and cybersecurity. There is a workforce opportunity for this next generation, a young person to person re-skilling, this is a big deal. Bong, you have thoughts on this. It's not just STEM, it's everything. >>Yeah. It's everything, you know, uh, the opportunities would have in space it's significant and tremendous. And I think, uh, if I were young, again, as you pointed out, John, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm lucky that I'm in this domain in this world and I started years ago. Uh, but it continues to be exciting, uh, lots of, lots of opportunities, you know, and when you, when you look at, uh, some of the commercial space, uh, systems that are being, being put up, uh, if you look at, I mentioned Starlink before, and, and, uh, Amazon's Kuyper constellation. These guys are talking about couple of thousand satellites in space to provide ubiquitous communications for internet globally and that sort of thing. Uh, and they're not the only ones that are out there producing capability. Uh, we're seeing a lot more commercial imagery products being developed by bike, by companies, both within the U S and, and, uh, foreign foreign elements as well. So I think it's an exciting time to be in space. Certainly lots of opportunities, there's technical challenges, uh, galore in terms of, you know, not only the overcoming the physics of space, but being able to operate, uh, flexibly, uh, in, uh, get the most you can out of the capabilities we have, uh, uh, operating up as high as being cool. I mean, everyone looks at launch. >>She gets millions of views on live streams, the on demand, reruns get millions and millions of views. Um, it's, there's a lot of things there. Um, so Chris, what specifically could you share are things that people would work on? Um, jobs skills, what are some, what's the aperture, what's it look like if you zoom out and look at all the opportunities from a scale standpoint, what's out there, >>We'll talk to the aperture, but I want to give a shout out to our space force. And I mean, their, their job is to train and equip, uh, future space and, uh, that, that space talent. And I think that's going to be a huge plus up, uh, to have, uh, uh, a space force that's dedicated to training equipping, uh, the, an acquisition and a deployment model that, uh, will benefit not just the other services, but all of our national defense and our, uh, you know, our, our strategic way of, uh, how, how this company, country, employees space, uh, altogether. So having, having a space for us, I think, as a, is a huge, uh, a huge issue. And then to get to that aperture aspect of, of what you're, what you're asking and, you know, that addresses a larger workforce. Uh, we need so many different talents in, in this area. >>Uh, we can, we can have, we can employ a variety of people, uh, from technical writers to people who write, uh, write in developed software to those who, uh, are bending metal and actually, uh, working in a hardware environment. And, uh, those that do planning and launch operations and all of those spectrums and issues of jobs, or are directly related to a workforce that can contribute to, to space. And then once that data gets to the ground and employed out to a user, whether it's a data or we're looking at, uh, from a sensor recent, uh, recent events on, uh, shipping lanes, those types of things. So space has such a wide and diverse swath that the aperture's really wide open, uh, for a variety of backgrounds. And, and those that, uh, really just want to take an opportunity, take a, take a technical degree or a degree that, uh, can apply itself to a tough problem, uh, because they certainly exist in space. And we can, we can use that mindset of problem solving, whether you come at it from a hacker mindset, an ethical, a white hat approach to testing and vulnerability exploration, or somebody who knows how to actually, um, make, uh, operations, uh, safer, better, uh, through space situation awareness. So there's a, there's a huge swath of opportunity for us >>Bon talk about the, um, the cyber security enabled environment, the use cases that are possible when you have cybersecurity in play with space systems, um, which is in and of itself, a huge range of jobs, codings supply chain. We just talked about a bunch of them. There's still more connected use cases that go beyond that, that, that are enabled by it. If you think about it, and this is what the students at Cal poly and every other college and university community college, you name it, or watching videos on YouTube, anyone with a brain can jump in. If they, if they see the future, it's an all net new space force is driving awareness, but there's a whole slew of these new use cases that I call space enabled by cybersecurity systems. Your thoughts. >>Absolutely. I, you know, I was, uh, had planned on attending the, uh, uh, the cyber challenge that's Cal poly had planned in June, of course, a pandemic, uh, uh, took care of that plan. But, but I was intrigued by, by the approach that the Cal poly was taking with, with, uh, middle school and high school kids of, of, of, of exposing him to a problem set here. You have a, a satellite that came down from space, uh, and, uh, part of the challenge was to do Porensic analysis on the debris, uh, the remaining pieces of the sound like to figure out what happened. Uh, it had a, uh, a cybersecurity connotation. It was hacked. It was attacked by, by cyber threat nation, took it down. And the beauty of having these kids kind of play with, with the remaining parts of the satellite figure out what happened. >>So I was pretty exciting. I was really looking forward to participating in that, but again, the pandemic kind of blew that up, but I, I look forward to future events like that to, to get our young people intrigued and interested in, uh, in this new field of space. Now, you know, Chris was talking earlier about opportunities, the opportunity that you talk about, you know, while I would like to have people come to the government, right. To help us out. It's not, it's not just focused on government, right? There's not lots of opportunities in commercial space. I, if you will, uh, for, for a lot of talent to, uh, uh, to have, uh, to participate in. So the challenge is a man's government and the commercial sector, John, >>I mean, you get the hardcore, you know, I want to work for the DOD. I want to work for NSA. I want to work for the government. You clearly got people who want to have that kind of mission, but for the folks out there, Chris and bong that are like, I'll do I qualify it? It's like the black box of the DOD. It's like a secret thing. You got any clearance, you've got to get all these certifications. And you've got to take all kinds of tests and background checks. And, um, is it like that? And will that continue? Cause some people might say, Hey, can I even get involved? What do I do? So I know there's some private partnerships going on with companies out there in the private sector. So this is now a new, you guys seem to be partnering and going outside the comfort zone of the old kind of tactical things. What are some of those opportunities that people could get involved that they might not know about >>PR for NSA, there's a variety of workforce, uh, initiatives that, uh, uh, for anybody from a high school work study can take advantage of to, uh, those that would like have to have internships. And those that are in a traditional academic environment, there's, uh, several NSA schools across the country that have a academic and cyber acts, uh, sites of excellence that participate in projects that are shepherded and mentored by those at NSA that can get those tough problems that don't have maybe a classified or super sensitive, uh, nature that that can be worked in and in an academia environment. So, so those are two or three examples of how somebody can break into, uh, the, uh, an intelligence organization and the, and the other agencies have those, uh, opportunities as well across the intelligence community and the, the partnership between and collaborative collaboration between private industry and the agencies and the department of defense just continue to grow over and over again. And even myself being able to take care advantage of a joint duty assignment between my home organization and the Pentagon just shows another venue of somebody that's in one organization can partner and leverage with another organization as well. So I'm an example of, of that partnering that's going on today. >>So there's some innovation, bong, non traditional pathways to find talent. What are out there? What are new, what are these new nontraditional ways >>I was going to add to what Chris was, was mentioning John? Yeah. Even within view and under the purview of our chief information officer, back in 2013, the deputy surfed dirty defense signed the, uh, what we call the DOD cyberspace workforce strategy, uh, into effect. And that included a program called the cyber information technology exchange program. It's an exchange program in which a, uh, you know, private sector employee and worked for the DOD in cyber security positions, uh, span across multiple mission critical areas. So this is one opportunity to learn, uh, you know, in inside the DOD what's happening as a private sector person, if you will, uh, going back to what we talked about, you know, kinda, uh, opportunities, uh, within the government for, for somebody who might be interested, uh, you know, you don't have to be super smart, Bork and space. Uh, there's a lot of like, like Chris pointed out, there's a lot of different areas that we need to have people down within people to do, uh, to conduct the mission space. So you don't have to be mathematician mathematician. You don't have to be an engineer to succeed in this business. I think there's plenty of opportunities for, for any types of, of talent, any type of academic disciplines that, that, that, that they're out there. >>And I think, you know, Chris is shout out to the space force is really worth calling out again, because I think to me, that's a big deal. It's a huge deal. It's going to change the face of our nation and society. So super, super important. And that's going to rise the tide. I think it's gonna create, uh, some activation, uh, for a younger generation, certainly, and kind of new opportunities, new problems to solve new threats to take on and, and move it on. So really super conversation space in cybersecurity, the department of defense perspective, Von and Chris, thank you for taking the time. I'd love you guys just to close out. We'll start with you bong. And then Chris summarize for the folks watching, whether it's a student at Cal poly or other university or someone in industry and government, what is the department of defense perspective for space cybersecurity? >>Chris, won't go and take that on. I started, thank you. Uh, cyber security applies to much more than just the launch and download of mission data or human led exploration and the planning, testing, and experiments in the lab prior to launch require that cyber protection, just as much as any other space link, ground segment, trust rail network, or user data, and any of that loss of intellectual property or proprietary data is an extremely valuable and important, and really warrants, cybersecurity safeguards in any economic espionage or data exfiltration or denied access to that data I E ransomware or some other, uh, attack that can cripple any business or government endeavor. Uh, no matter how small or large, if it's left in our economic backbone, uh, clearly depends on space and GPS is more than just a direction finding our banking needs that a T and timing from P and T or whether it says systems that protect our shipping and airline industry of whether they can navigate and go through a particular storm or not, uh, even fighting forest fires picked up by a remote sensor. >>All those space-based assets, uh, require protection from spoofing date, uh, data denial or total asset loss. An example would be if a satellite sensitive optics were intentionally pointed at the sun and damaged, or if a command, uh, to avoid collision with another space vehicle was delayed or disrupted or a ground termination command. As we just saw just a few days ago at T minus three seconds prior to liftoff, if those all don't go as planned, uh, those losses are real and can be catastrophic. So the threat to space is pervasive real and genuine, and your active work across all those platforms is a necessary and appreciated. And your work in this area is critical, uh, going forward going forward. Uh, thank you for this opportunity to speak with you and, uh, talking on this important topic. >>Thank you, Chris Henson, goodbye. >>Closing remarks. Yeah. Likewise, John, uh, again, uh, as, as Chris said, thank you for, for the opportunity to discuss this very important, uh, around space, cyber security, as well as addressing, uh, at the end there, we were talking about workforce development and the need to have, uh, people, uh, in the mix for four features. We discussed with you. We need to start that recruiting early, uh, as we're doing to address, uh, the STEM gap today, we need to apply the same thing for cybersecurity. We, we absolutely need smart, innovative people to protect both Iraq. Anomic wellbeings a nation as well as our national defense. So this is the right conversation to have at this time, John and I, again, thank you and our Cal poly hose for, or, uh, having a symposium and, and having this opportunity to have this dialogue. Thank you, >>Gentlemen. Thank you for your time and great insights. We couldn't be there in person. We're here virtual for the space and cybersecurity symposium, 2020, the Cal poly I'm Jennifer with Silicon angle and the cube, your host. Thank you for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering >>space and cybersecurity. Symposium 2020 hosted by Cal Poly >>Over On Welcome to this Special virtual conference. The Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020 put on by Cal Poly with support from the Cube. I'm John for your host and master of ceremonies. Got a great topic today in this session. Really? The intersection of space and cybersecurity. This topic and this conversation is the cybersecurity workforce development through public and private partnerships. And we've got a great lineup. We have Jeff Armstrong's the president of California Polytechnic State University, also known as Cal Poly Jeffrey. Thanks for jumping on and Bang. Go ahead. The second director of C four s R Division. And he's joining us from the office of the Under Secretary of Defense for the acquisition Sustainment Department of Defense, D O D. And, of course, Steve Jake's executive director, founder, National Security Space Association and managing partner at Bello's. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me for this session. We got an hour conversation. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. >>So we got a virtual event here. We've got an hour, have a great conversation and love for you guys do? In opening statement on how you see the development through public and private partnerships around cybersecurity in space, Jeff will start with you. >>Well, thanks very much, John. It's great to be on with all of you. Uh, on behalf Cal Poly Welcome, everyone. Educating the workforce of tomorrow is our mission to Cal Poly. Whether that means traditional undergraduates, master students are increasingly mid career professionals looking toe up, skill or re skill. Our signature pedagogy is learn by doing, which means that our graduates arrive at employers ready Day one with practical skills and experience. We have long thought of ourselves is lucky to be on California's beautiful central Coast. But in recent years, as we have developed closer relationships with Vandenberg Air Force Base, hopefully the future permanent headquarters of the United States Space Command with Vandenberg and other regional partners, we have discovered that our location is even more advantages than we thought. We're just 50 miles away from Vandenberg, a little closer than u C. Santa Barbara, and the base represents the southern border of what we have come to think of as the central coast region. Cal Poly and Vandenberg Air force base have partner to support regional economic development to encourage the development of a commercial spaceport toe advocate for the space Command headquarters coming to Vandenberg and other ventures. These partnerships have been possible because because both parties stand to benefit Vandenberg by securing new streams of revenue, workforce and local supply chain and Cal Poly by helping to grow local jobs for graduates, internship opportunities for students, and research and entrepreneurship opportunities for faculty and staff. Crucially, what's good for Vandenberg Air Force Base and for Cal Poly is also good for the Central Coast and the US, creating new head of household jobs, infrastructure and opportunity. Our goal is that these new jobs bring more diversity and sustainability for the region. This regional economic development has taken on a life of its own, spawning a new nonprofit called Reach, which coordinates development efforts from Vandenberg Air Force Base in the South to camp to Camp Roberts in the North. Another factor that is facilitated our relationship with Vandenberg Air Force Base is that we have some of the same friends. For example, Northrop Grumman has has long been an important defense contractor, an important partner to Cal poly funding scholarships and facilities that have allowed us to stay current with technology in it to attract highly qualified students for whom Cal Poly's costs would otherwise be prohibitive. For almost 20 years north of grimness funded scholarships for Cal Poly students this year, their funding 64 scholarships, some directly in our College of Engineering and most through our Cal Poly Scholars program, Cal Poly Scholars, a support both incoming freshman is transfer students. These air especially important because it allows us to provide additional support and opportunities to a group of students who are mostly first generation, low income and underrepresented and who otherwise might not choose to attend Cal Poly. They also allow us to recruit from partner high schools with large populations of underrepresented minority students, including the Fortune High School in Elk Grove, which we developed a deep and lasting connection. We know that the best work is done by balanced teams that include multiple and diverse perspectives. These scholarships help us achieve that goal, and I'm sure you know Northrop Grumman was recently awarded a very large contract to modernized the U. S. I. C B M Armory with some of the work being done at Vandenberg Air Force Base, thus supporting the local economy and protecting protecting our efforts in space requires partnerships in the digital realm. How Polly is partnered with many private companies, such as AWS. Our partnerships with Amazon Web services has enabled us to train our students with next generation cloud engineering skills, in part through our jointly created digital transformation hub. Another partnership example is among Cal Poly's California Cybersecurity Institute, College of Engineering and the California National Guard. This partnership is focused on preparing a cyber ready workforce by providing faculty and students with a hands on research and learning environment, side by side with military, law enforcement professionals and cyber experts. We also have a long standing partnership with PG and E, most recently focused on workforce development and redevelopment. Many of our graduates do indeed go on to careers in aerospace and defense industry as a rough approximation. More than 4500 Cal Poly graduates list aerospace and defense as their employment sector on linked in, and it's not just our engineers and computer sciences. When I was speaking to our fellow Panelists not too long ago, >>are >>speaking to bang, we learned that Rachel sins, one of our liberal arts arts majors, is working in his office. So shout out to you, Rachel. And then finally, of course, some of our graduates sword extraordinary heights such as Commander Victor Glover, who will be heading to the International space station later this year as I close. All of which is to say that we're deeply committed the workforce, development and redevelopment that we understand the value of public private partnerships and that were eager to find new ways in which to benefit everyone from this further cooperation. So we're committed to the region, the state in the nation and our past efforts in space, cybersecurity and links to our partners at as I indicated, aerospace industry and governmental partners provides a unique position for us to move forward in the interface of space and cybersecurity. Thank you so much, John. >>President, I'm sure thank you very much for the comments and congratulations to Cal Poly for being on the forefront of innovation and really taking a unique progressive. You and wanna tip your hat to you guys over there. Thank you very much for those comments. Appreciate it. Bahng. Department of Defense. Exciting you gotta defend the nation spaces Global. Your opening statement. >>Yes, sir. Thanks, John. Appreciate that day. Thank you, everybody. I'm honored to be this panel along with President Armstrong, Cal Poly in my long longtime friend and colleague Steve Jakes of the National Security Space Association, to discuss a very important topic of cybersecurity workforce development, as President Armstrong alluded to, I'll tell you both of these organizations, Cal Poly and the N S. A have done and continue to do an exceptional job at finding talent, recruiting them in training current and future leaders and technical professionals that we vitally need for our nation's growing space programs. A swell Asare collective National security Earlier today, during Session three high, along with my colleague Chris Hansen discussed space, cyber Security and how the space domain is changing the landscape of future conflicts. I discussed the rapid emergence of commercial space with the proliferations of hundreds, if not thousands, of satellites providing a variety of services, including communications allowing for global Internet connectivity. S one example within the O. D. We continue to look at how we can leverage this opportunity. I'll tell you one of the enabling technologies eyes the use of small satellites, which are inherently cheaper and perhaps more flexible than the traditional bigger systems that we have historically used unemployed for the U. D. Certainly not lost on Me is the fact that Cal Poly Pioneer Cube SATs 2020 some years ago, and they set the standard for the use of these systems today. So they saw the valiant benefit gained way ahead of everybody else, it seems, and Cal Poly's focus on training and education is commendable. I especially impressed by the efforts of another of Steve's I colleague, current CEO Mr Bill Britain, with his high energy push to attract the next generation of innovators. Uh, earlier this year, I had planned on participating in this year's Cyber Innovation Challenge. In June works Cal Poly host California Mill and high school students and challenge them with situations to test their cyber knowledge. I tell you, I wish I had that kind of opportunity when I was a kid. Unfortunately, the pandemic change the plan. Why I truly look forward. Thio feature events such as these Thio participating. Now I want to recognize my good friend Steve Jakes, whom I've known for perhaps too long of a time here over two decades or so, who was in acknowledge space expert and personally, I truly applaud him for having the foresight of years back to form the National Security Space Association to help the entire space enterprise navigate through not only technology but Polly policy issues and challenges and paved the way for operational izing space. Space is our newest horrifying domain. That's not a secret anymore. Uh, and while it is a unique area, it shares a lot of common traits with the other domains such as land, air and sea, obviously all of strategically important to the defense of the United States. In conflict they will need to be. They will all be contested and therefore they all need to be defended. One domain alone will not win future conflicts in a joint operation. We must succeed. All to defending space is critical as critical is defending our other operational domains. Funny space is no longer the sanctuary available only to the government. Increasingly, as I discussed in the previous session, commercial space is taking the lead a lot of different areas, including R and D, A so called new space, so cyber security threat is even more demanding and even more challenging. Three US considers and federal access to and freedom to operate in space vital to advancing security, economic prosperity, prosperity and scientific knowledge of the country. That's making cyberspace an inseparable component. America's financial, social government and political life. We stood up US Space force ah, year ago or so as the newest military service is like the other services. Its mission is to organize, train and equip space forces in order to protect us and allied interest in space and to provide space capabilities to the joint force. Imagine combining that US space force with the U. S. Cyber Command to unify the direction of space and cyberspace operation strengthened U D capabilities and integrate and bolster d o d cyber experience. Now, of course, to enable all of this requires had trained and professional cadre of cyber security experts, combining a good mix of policy as well as high technical skill set much like we're seeing in stem, we need to attract more people to this growing field. Now the D. O. D. Is recognized the importance of the cybersecurity workforce, and we have implemented policies to encourage his growth Back in 2013 the deputy secretary of defense signed the D. O d cyberspace workforce strategy to create a comprehensive, well equipped cyber security team to respond to national security concerns. Now this strategy also created a program that encourages collaboration between the D. O. D and private sector employees. We call this the Cyber Information Technology Exchange program or site up. It's an exchange programs, which is very interesting, in which a private sector employees can naturally work for the D. O. D. In a cyber security position that spans across multiple mission critical areas are important to the d. O. D. A key responsibility of cybersecurity community is military leaders on the related threats and cyber security actions we need to have to defeat these threats. We talk about rapid that position, agile business processes and practices to speed up innovation. Likewise, cybersecurity must keep up with this challenge to cyber security. Needs to be right there with the challenges and changes, and this requires exceptional personnel. We need to attract talent investing the people now to grow a robust cybersecurity, workforce, streets, future. I look forward to the panel discussion, John. Thank you. >>Thank you so much bomb for those comments and you know, new challenges and new opportunities and new possibilities and free freedom Operating space. Critical. Thank you for those comments. Looking forward. Toa chatting further. Steve Jakes, executive director of N. S. S. A Europe opening statement. >>Thank you, John. And echoing bangs thanks to Cal Poly for pulling these this important event together and frankly, for allowing the National Security Space Association be a part of it. Likewise, we on behalf the association delighted and honored Thio be on this panel with President Armstrong along with my friend and colleague Bonneau Glue Mahad Something for you all to know about Bomb. He spent the 1st 20 years of his career in the Air Force doing space programs. He then went into industry for several years and then came back into government to serve. Very few people do that. So bang on behalf of the space community, we thank you for your long life long devotion to service to our nation. We really appreciate that and I also echo a bang shot out to that guy Bill Britain, who has been a long time co conspirator of ours for a long time and you're doing great work there in the cyber program at Cal Poly Bill, keep it up. But professor arms trying to keep a close eye on him. Uh, I would like to offer a little extra context to the great comments made by by President Armstrong and bahng. Uh, in our view, the timing of this conference really could not be any better. Um, we all recently reflected again on that tragic 9 11 surprise attack on our homeland. And it's an appropriate time, we think, to take pause while the percentage of you in the audience here weren't even born or babies then For the most of us, it still feels like yesterday. And moreover, a tragedy like 9 11 has taught us a lot to include to be more vigilant, always keep our collective eyes and ears open to include those quote eyes and ears from space, making sure nothing like this ever happens again. So this conference is a key aspect. Protecting our nation requires we work in a cybersecurity environment at all times. But, you know, the fascinating thing about space systems is we can't see him. No, sir, We see Space launches man there's nothing more invigorating than that. But after launch, they become invisible. So what are they really doing up there? What are they doing to enable our quality of life in the United States and in the world? Well, to illustrate, I'd like to paraphrase elements of an article in Forbes magazine by Bonds and my good friend Chuck Beans. Chuck. It's a space guy, actually had Bonds job a fuse in the Pentagon. He is now chairman and chief strategy officer at York Space Systems, and in his spare time he's chairman of the small satellites. Chuck speaks in words that everyone can understand. So I'd like to give you some of his words out of his article. Uh, they're afraid somewhat. So these are Chuck's words. Let's talk about average Joe and playing Jane. Before heading to the airport for a business trip to New York City, Joe checks the weather forecast informed by Noah's weather satellites to see what pack for the trip. He then calls an uber that space app. Everybody uses it matches riders with drivers via GPS to take into the airport, So Joe has lunch of the airport. Unbeknownst to him, his organic lunch is made with the help of precision farming made possible through optimized irrigation and fertilization, with remote spectral sensing coming from space and GPS on the plane, the pilot navigates around weather, aided by GPS and nose weather satellites. And Joe makes his meeting on time to join his New York colleagues in a video call with a key customer in Singapore made possible by telecommunication satellites. Around to his next meeting, Joe receives notice changing the location of the meeting to another to the other side of town. So he calmly tells Syria to adjust the destination, and his satellite guided Google maps redirects him to the new location. That evening, Joe watches the news broadcast via satellite. The report details a meeting among world leaders discussing the developing crisis in Syria. As it turns out, various forms of quote remotely sensed. Information collected from satellites indicate that yet another band, chemical weapon, may have been used on its own people. Before going to bed, Joe decides to call his parents and congratulate them for their wedding anniversary as they cruise across the Atlantic, made possible again by communications satellites and Joe's parents can enjoy the call without even wondering how it happened the next morning. Back home, Joe's wife, Jane, is involved in a car accident. Her vehicle skids off the road. She's knocked unconscious, but because of her satellite equipped on star system, the crash is detected immediately and first responders show up on the scene. In time, Joe receives the news books. An early trip home sends flowers to his wife as he orders another uber to the airport. Over that 24 hours, Joe and Jane used space system applications for nearly every part of their day. Imagine the consequences if at any point they were somehow denied these services, whether they be by natural causes or a foreign hostility. And each of these satellite applications used in this case were initially developed for military purposes and continue to be, but also have remarkable application on our way of life. Just many people just don't know that. So, ladies and gentlemen, now you know, thanks to chuck beans, well, the United States has a proud heritage being the world's leading space faring nation, dating back to the Eisenhower and Kennedy years. Today we have mature and robust systems operating from space, providing overhead reconnaissance to quote, wash and listen, provide missile warning, communications, positioning, navigation and timing from our GPS system. Much of what you heard in Lieutenant General J. T. Thompson earlier speech. These systems are not only integral to our national security, but also our also to our quality of life is Chuck told us. We simply no longer could live without these systems as a nation and for that matter, as a world. But over the years, adversary like adversaries like China, Russia and other countries have come to realize the value of space systems and are aggressively playing ketchup while also pursuing capabilities that will challenge our systems. As many of you know, in 2000 and seven, China demonstrated it's a set system by actually shooting down is one of its own satellites and has been aggressively developing counter space systems to disrupt hours. So in a heavily congested space environment, our systems are now being contested like never before and will continue to bay well as Bond mentioned, the United States has responded to these changing threats. In addition to adding ways to protect our system, the administration and in Congress recently created the United States Space Force and the operational you United States Space Command, the latter of which you heard President Armstrong and other Californians hope is going to be located. Vandenberg Air Force Base Combined with our intelligence community today, we have focused military and civilian leadership now in space. And that's a very, very good thing. Commence, really. On the industry side, we did create the National Security Space Association devoted solely to supporting the national security Space Enterprise. We're based here in the D C area, but we have arms and legs across the country, and we are loaded with extraordinary talent. In scores of Forman, former government executives, So S s a is joined at the hip with our government customers to serve and to support. We're busy with a multitude of activities underway ranging from a number of thought provoking policy. Papers are recurring space time Webcast supporting Congress's Space Power Caucus and other main serious efforts. Check us out at NSS. A space dot org's One of our strategic priorities in central to today's events is to actively promote and nurture the workforce development. Just like cow calling. We will work with our U. S. Government customers, industry leaders and academia to attract and recruit students to join the space world, whether in government or industry and two assistant mentoring and training as their careers. Progress on that point, we're delighted. Be delighted to be working with Cal Poly as we hopefully will undertake a new pilot program with him very soon. So students stay tuned something I can tell you Space is really cool. While our nation's satellite systems are technical and complex, our nation's government and industry work force is highly diverse, with a combination of engineers, physicists, method and mathematicians, but also with a large non technical expertise as well. Think about how government gets things thes systems designed, manufactured, launching into orbit and operating. They do this via contracts with our aerospace industry, requiring talents across the board from cost estimating cost analysis, budgeting, procurement, legal and many other support. Tasker Integral to the mission. Many thousands of people work in the space workforce tens of billions of dollars every year. This is really cool stuff, no matter what your education background, a great career to be part of. When summary as bang had mentioned Aziz, well, there is a great deal of exciting challenges ahead we will see a new renaissance in space in the years ahead, and in some cases it's already begun. Billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Sir Richard Richard Branson are in the game, stimulating new ideas in business models, other private investors and start up companies. Space companies are now coming in from all angles. The exponential advancement of technology and microelectronics now allows the potential for a plethora of small SAT systems to possibly replace older satellites the size of a Greyhound bus. It's getting better by the day and central to this conference, cybersecurity is paramount to our nation's critical infrastructure in space. So once again, thanks very much, and I look forward to the further conversation. >>Steve, thank you very much. Space is cool. It's relevant. But it's important, as you pointed out, and you're awesome story about how it impacts our life every day. So I really appreciate that great story. I'm glad you took the time Thio share that you forgot the part about the drone coming over in the crime scene and, you know, mapping it out for you. But that would add that to the story later. Great stuff. My first question is let's get into the conversations because I think this is super important. President Armstrong like you to talk about some of the points that was teased out by Bang and Steve. One in particular is the comment around how military research was important in developing all these capabilities, which is impacting all of our lives. Through that story. It was the military research that has enabled a generation and generation of value for consumers. This is kind of this workforce conversation. There are opportunities now with with research and grants, and this is, ah, funding of innovation that it's highly accelerate. It's happening very quickly. Can you comment on how research and the partnerships to get that funding into the universities is critical? >>Yeah, I really appreciate that And appreciate the comments of my colleagues on it really boils down to me to partnerships, public private partnerships. You mentioned Northrop Grumman, but we have partnerships with Lockie Martin, Boeing, Raytheon Space six JPL, also member of organization called Business Higher Education Forum, which brings together university presidents and CEOs of companies. There's been focused on cybersecurity and data science, and I hope that we can spill into cybersecurity in space but those partnerships in the past have really brought a lot forward at Cal Poly Aziz mentioned we've been involved with Cube set. Uh, we've have some secure work and we want to plan to do more of that in the future. Uh, those partnerships are essential not only for getting the r and d done, but also the students, the faculty, whether masters or undergraduate, can be involved with that work. Uh, they get that real life experience, whether it's on campus or virtually now during Covic or at the location with the partner, whether it may be governmental or our industry. Uh, and then they're even better equipped, uh, to hit the ground running. And of course, we'd love to see even more of our students graduate with clearance so that they could do some of that a secure work as well. So these partnerships are absolutely critical, and it's also in the context of trying to bring the best and the brightest and all demographics of California and the US into this field, uh, to really be successful. So these partnerships are essential, and our goal is to grow them just like I know other colleagues and C. S u and the U C are planning to dio, >>you know, just as my age I've seen I grew up in the eighties, in college and during that systems generation and that the generation before me, they really kind of pioneered the space that spawned the computer revolution. I mean, you look at these key inflection points in our lives. They were really funded through these kinds of real deep research. Bond talk about that because, you know, we're living in an age of cloud. And Bezos was mentioned. Elon Musk. Sir Richard Branson. You got new ideas coming in from the outside. You have an accelerated clock now on terms of the innovation cycles, and so you got to react differently. You guys have programs to go outside >>of >>the Defense Department. How important is this? Because the workforce that air in schools and our folks re skilling are out there and you've been on both sides of the table. So share your thoughts. >>No, thanks, John. Thanks for the opportunity responded. And that's what you hit on the notes back in the eighties, R and D in space especially, was dominated by my government funding. Uh, contracts and so on. But things have changed. As Steve pointed out, A lot of these commercial entities funded by billionaires are coming out of the woodwork funding R and D. So they're taking the lead. So what we can do within the deal, the in government is truly take advantage of the work they've done on. Uh, since they're they're, you know, paving the way to new new approaches and new way of doing things. And I think we can We could certainly learn from that. And leverage off of that saves us money from an R and D standpoint while benefiting from from the product that they deliver, you know, within the O D Talking about workforce development Way have prioritized we have policies now to attract and retain talent. We need I I had the folks do some research and and looks like from a cybersecurity workforce standpoint. A recent study done, I think, last year in 2019 found that the cybersecurity workforce gap in the U. S. Is nearing half a million people, even though it is a growing industry. So the pipeline needs to be strengthened off getting people through, you know, starting young and through college, like assess a professor Armstrong indicated, because we're gonna need them to be in place. Uh, you know, in a period of about maybe a decade or so, Uh, on top of that, of course, is the continuing issue we have with the gap with with stamps students, we can't afford not to have expertise in place to support all the things we're doing within the with the not only deal with the but the commercial side as well. Thank you. >>How's the gap? Get? Get filled. I mean, this is the this is again. You got cybersecurity. I mean, with space. It's a whole another kind of surface area, if you will, in early surface area. But it is. It is an I o t. Device if you think about it. But it does have the same challenges. That's kind of current and and progressive with cybersecurity. Where's the gap Get filled, Steve Or President Armstrong? I mean, how do you solve the problem and address this gap in the workforce? What is some solutions and what approaches do we need to put in place? >>Steve, go ahead. I'll follow up. >>Okay. Thanks. I'll let you correct. May, uh, it's a really good question, and it's the way I would. The way I would approach it is to focus on it holistically and to acknowledge it up front. And it comes with our teaching, etcetera across the board and from from an industry perspective, I mean, we see it. We've gotta have secure systems with everything we do and promoting this and getting students at early ages and mentoring them and throwing internships at them. Eyes is so paramount to the whole the whole cycle, and and that's kind of and it really takes focused attention. And we continue to use the word focus from an NSS, a perspective. We know the challenges that are out there. There are such talented people in the workforce on the government side, but not nearly enough of them. And likewise on industry side. We could use Maura's well, but when you get down to it, you know we can connect dots. You know that the the aspect That's a Professor Armstrong talked about earlier toe where you continue to work partnerships as much as you possibly can. We hope to be a part of that. That network at that ecosystem the will of taking common objectives and working together to kind of make these things happen and to bring the power not just of one or two companies, but our our entire membership to help out >>President >>Trump. Yeah, I would. I would also add it again. It's back to partnerships that I talked about earlier. One of our partners is high schools and schools fortune Margaret Fortune, who worked in a couple of, uh, administrations in California across party lines and education. Their fifth graders all visit Cal Poly and visit our learned by doing lab and you, you've got to get students interested in stem at a early age. We also need the partnerships, the scholarships, the financial aid so the students can graduate with minimal to no debt to really hit the ground running. And that's exacerbated and really stress. Now, with this covert induced recession, California supports higher education at a higher rate than most states in the nation. But that is that has dropped this year or reasons. We all understand, uh, due to Kobe, and so our partnerships, our creativity on making sure that we help those that need the most help financially uh, that's really key, because the gaps air huge eyes. My colleagues indicated, you know, half of half a million jobs and you need to look at the the students that are in the pipeline. We've got to enhance that. Uh, it's the in the placement rates are amazing. Once the students get to a place like Cal Poly or some of our other amazing CSU and UC campuses, uh, placement rates are like 94%. >>Many of our >>engineers, they have jobs lined up a year before they graduate. So it's just gonna take key partnerships working together. Uh, and that continued partnership with government, local, of course, our state of CSU on partners like we have here today, both Stephen Bang So partnerships the thing >>e could add, you know, the collaboration with universities one that we, uh, put a lot of emphasis, and it may not be well known fact, but as an example of national security agencies, uh, National Centers of Academic Excellence in Cyber, the Fast works with over 270 colleges and universities across the United States to educate its 45 future cyber first responders as an example, so that Zatz vibrant and healthy and something that we ought Teoh Teik, banjo >>off. Well, I got the brain trust here on this topic. I want to get your thoughts on this one point. I'd like to define what is a public private partnership because the theme that's coming out of the symposium is the script has been flipped. It's a modern error. Things air accelerated get you got security. So you get all these things kind of happen is a modern approach and you're seeing a digital transformation play out all over the world in business. Andi in the public sector. So >>what is what >>is a modern public private partnership? What does it look like today? Because people are learning differently, Covert has pointed out, which was that we're seeing right now. How people the progressions of knowledge and learning truth. It's all changing. How do you guys view the modern version of public private partnership and some some examples and improve points? Can you can you guys share that? We'll start with the Professor Armstrong. >>Yeah. A zai indicated earlier. We've had on guy could give other examples, but Northup Grumman, uh, they helped us with cyber lab. Many years ago. That is maintained, uh, directly the software, the connection outside its its own unit so that students can learn the hack, they can learn to penetrate defenses, and I know that that has already had some considerations of space. But that's a benefit to both parties. So a good public private partnership has benefits to both entities. Uh, in the common factor for universities with a lot of these partnerships is the is the talent, the talent that is, that is needed, what we've been working on for years of the, you know, that undergraduate or master's or PhD programs. But now it's also spilling into Skilling and re Skilling. As you know, Jobs. Uh, you know, folks were in jobs today that didn't exist two years, three years, five years ago. But it also spills into other aspects that can expand even mawr. We're very fortunate. We have land, there's opportunities. We have one tech part project. We're expanding our tech park. I think we'll see opportunities for that, and it'll it'll be adjusted thio, due to the virtual world that we're all learning more and more about it, which we were in before Cove it. But I also think that that person to person is going to be important. Um, I wanna make sure that I'm driving across the bridge. Or or that that satellites being launched by the engineer that's had at least some in person training, uh, to do that and that experience, especially as a first time freshman coming on a campus, getting that experience expanding and as adult. And we're gonna need those public private partnerships in order to continue to fund those at a level that is at the excellence we need for these stem and engineering fields. >>It's interesting People in technology can work together in these partnerships in a new way. Bank Steve Reaction Thio the modern version of what a public, successful private partnership looks like. >>If I could jump in John, I think, you know, historically, Dodi's has have had, ah, high bar thio, uh, to overcome, if you will, in terms of getting rapid pulling in your company. This is the fault, if you will and not rely heavily in are the usual suspects of vendors and like and I think the deal is done a good job over the last couple of years off trying to reduce the burden on working with us. You know, the Air Force. I think they're pioneering this idea around pitch days where companies come in, do a two hour pitch and immediately notified of a wooden award without having to wait a long time. Thio get feedback on on the quality of the product and so on. So I think we're trying to do our best. Thio strengthen that partnership with companies outside the main group of people that we typically use. >>Steve, any reaction? Comment to add? >>Yeah, I would add a couple of these air. Very excellent thoughts. Uh, it zits about taking a little gamble by coming out of your comfort zone. You know, the world that Bond and Bond lives in and I used to live in in the past has been quite structured. It's really about we know what the threat is. We need to go fix it, will design it says we go make it happen, we'll fly it. Um, life is so much more complicated than that. And so it's it's really to me. I mean, you take you take an example of the pitch days of bond talks about I think I think taking a gamble by attempting to just do a lot of pilot programs, uh, work the trust factor between government folks and the industry folks in academia. Because we are all in this together in a lot of ways, for example. I mean, we just sent the paper to the White House of their requests about, you know, what would we do from a workforce development perspective? And we hope Thio embellish on this over time once the the initiative matures. But we have a piece of it, for example, is the thing we call clear for success getting back Thio Uh, President Armstrong's comments at the collegiate level. You know, high, high, high quality folks are in high demand. So why don't we put together a program they grabbed kids in their their underclass years identifies folks that are interested in doing something like this. Get them scholarships. Um, um, I have a job waiting for them that their contract ID for before they graduate, and when they graduate, they walk with S C I clearance. We believe that could be done so, and that's an example of ways in which the public private partnerships can happen to where you now have a talented kid ready to go on Day one. We think those kind of things can happen. It just gets back down to being focused on specific initiatives, give them giving them a chance and run as many pilot programs as you can like these days. >>That's a great point, E. President. >>I just want to jump in and echo both the bank and Steve's comments. But Steve, that you know your point of, you know, our graduates. We consider them ready Day one. Well, they need to be ready Day one and ready to go secure. We totally support that and and love to follow up offline with you on that. That's that's exciting, uh, and needed very much needed mawr of it. Some of it's happening, but way certainly have been thinking a lot about that and making some plans, >>and that's a great example of good Segway. My next question. This kind of reimagining sees work flows, eyes kind of breaking down the old the old way and bringing in kind of a new way accelerated all kind of new things. There are creative ways to address this workforce issue, and this is the next topic. How can we employ new creative solutions? Because, let's face it, you know, it's not the days of get your engineering degree and and go interview for a job and then get slotted in and get the intern. You know the programs you get you particularly through the system. This is this is multiple disciplines. Cybersecurity points at that. You could be smart and math and have, ah, degree in anthropology and even the best cyber talents on the planet. So this is a new new world. What are some creative approaches that >>you know, we're >>in the workforce >>is quite good, John. One of the things I think that za challenge to us is you know, we got somehow we got me working for with the government, sexy, right? The part of the challenge we have is attracting the right right level of skill sets and personnel. But, you know, we're competing oftentimes with the commercial side, the gaming industry as examples of a big deal. And those are the same talents. We need to support a lot of programs we have in the U. D. So somehow we have to do a better job to Steve's point off, making the work within the U. D within the government something that they would be interested early on. So I tracked him early. I kind of talked about Cal Poly's, uh, challenge program that they were gonna have in June inviting high school kid. We're excited about the whole idea of space and cyber security, and so on those air something. So I think we have to do it. Continue to do what were the course the next several years. >>Awesome. Any other creative approaches that you guys see working or might be on idea, or just a kind of stoked the ideation out their internship. So obviously internships are known, but like there's gotta be new ways. >>I think you can take what Steve was talking about earlier getting students in high school, uh, and aligning them sometimes. Uh, that intern first internship, not just between the freshman sophomore year, but before they inter cal poly per se. And they're they're involved s So I think that's, uh, absolutely key. Getting them involved many other ways. Um, we have an example of of up Skilling a redeveloped work redevelopment here in the Central Coast. PG and e Diablo nuclear plant as going to decommission in around 2020 24. And so we have a ongoing partnership toe work on reposition those employees for for the future. So that's, you know, engineering and beyond. Uh, but think about that just in the manner that you were talking about. So the up skilling and re Skilling uh, on I think that's where you know, we were talking about that Purdue University. Other California universities have been dealing with online programs before cove it and now with co vid uh, so many more faculty or were pushed into that area. There's going to be much more going and talk about workforce development and up Skilling and Re Skilling The amount of training and education of our faculty across the country, uh, in in virtual, uh, and delivery has been huge. So there's always a silver linings in the cloud. >>I want to get your guys thoughts on one final question as we in the in the segment. And we've seen on the commercial side with cloud computing on these highly accelerated environments where you know, SAS business model subscription. That's on the business side. But >>one of The >>things that's clear in this trend is technology, and people work together and technology augments the people components. So I'd love to get your thoughts as we look at the world now we're living in co vid um, Cal Poly. You guys have remote learning Right now. It's a infancy. It's a whole new disruption, if you will, but also an opportunity to enable new ways to collaborate, Right? So if you look at people and technology, can you guys share your view and vision on how communities can be developed? How these digital technologies and people can work together faster to get to the truth or make a discovery higher to build the workforce? These air opportunities? How do you guys view this new digital transformation? >>Well, I think there's there's a huge opportunities and just what we're doing with this symposium. We're filming this on one day, and it's going to stream live, and then the three of us, the four of us, can participate and chat with participants while it's going on. That's amazing. And I appreciate you, John, you bringing that to this this symposium, I think there's more and more that we can do from a Cal poly perspective with our pedagogy. So you know, linked to learn by doing in person will always be important to us. But we see virtual. We see partnerships like this can expand and enhance our ability and minimize the in person time, decrease the time to degree enhanced graduation rate, eliminate opportunity gaps or students that don't have the same advantages. S so I think the technological aspect of this is tremendous. Then on the up Skilling and Re Skilling, where employees air all over, they can be reached virtually then maybe they come to a location or really advanced technology allows them to get hands on virtually, or they come to that location and get it in a hybrid format. Eso I'm I'm very excited about the future and what we can do, and it's gonna be different with every university with every partnership. It's one. Size does not fit all. >>It's so many possibilities. Bond. I could almost imagine a social network that has a verified, you know, secure clearance. I can jump in, have a little cloak of secrecy and collaborate with the d o. D. Possibly in the future. But >>these are the >>kind of kind of crazy ideas that are needed. Are your thoughts on this whole digital transformation cross policy? >>I think technology is gonna be revolutionary here, John. You know, we're focusing lately on what we call digital engineering to quicken the pace off, delivering capability to warfighter. As an example, I think a I machine language all that's gonna have a major play and how we operate in the future. We're embracing five G technologies writing ability Thio zero latency or I o t More automation off the supply chain. That sort of thing, I think, uh, the future ahead of us is is very encouraging. Thing is gonna do a lot for for national defense on certainly the security of the country. >>Steve, your final thoughts. Space systems are systems, and they're connected to other systems that are connected to people. Your thoughts on this digital transformation opportunity >>Such a great question in such a fun, great challenge ahead of us. Um echoing are my colleague's sentiments. I would add to it. You know, a lot of this has I think we should do some focusing on campaigning so that people can feel comfortable to include the Congress to do things a little bit differently. Um, you know, we're not attuned to doing things fast. Uh, but the dramatic You know, the way technology is just going like crazy right now. I think it ties back Thio hoping Thio, convince some of our senior leaders on what I call both sides of the Potomac River that it's worth taking these gamble. We do need to take some of these things very way. And I'm very confident, confident and excited and comfortable. They're just gonna be a great time ahead and all for the better. >>You know, e talk about D. C. Because I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not a political person, but I always say less lawyers, more techies in Congress and Senate. So I was getting job when I say that. Sorry. Presidential. Go ahead. >>Yeah, I know. Just one other point. Uh, and and Steve's alluded to this in bonded as well. I mean, we've got to be less risk averse in these partnerships. That doesn't mean reckless, but we have to be less risk averse. And I would also I have a zoo. You talk about technology. I have to reflect on something that happened in, uh, you both talked a bit about Bill Britton and his impact on Cal Poly and what we're doing. But we were faced a few years ago of replacing a traditional data a data warehouse, data storage data center, and we partner with a W S. And thank goodness we had that in progress on it enhanced our bandwidth on our campus before Cove. It hit on with this partnership with the digital transformation hub. So there is a great example where, uh, we we had that going. That's not something we could have started. Oh, covitz hit. Let's flip that switch. And so we have to be proactive on. We also have thio not be risk averse and do some things differently. Eyes that that is really salvage the experience for for students. Right now, as things are flowing, well, we only have about 12% of our courses in person. Uh, those essential courses, uh, and just grateful for those partnerships that have talked about today. >>Yeah, and it's a shining example of how being agile, continuous operations, these air themes that expand into space and the next workforce needs to be built. Gentlemen, thank you. very much for sharing your insights. I know. Bang, You're gonna go into the defense side of space and your other sessions. Thank you, gentlemen, for your time for great session. Appreciate it. >>Thank you. Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. >>I'm John Furry with the Cube here in Palo Alto, California Covering and hosting with Cal Poly The Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020. Thanks for watching.

>>Hi. Um, and thank you for inviting me to speak at the Entity Research Summit. And congratulations for NTT for setting up the neuroses club in the area. Okay, so I'm gonna talk about fully by deniable encryption and multiply the competition. And, uh, this is joint work with park from Harvard. And Santa will bring a, uh, she structurally right now in Russia during the rest. Um, so So so consider thesis, uh, two kids, which maybe some of you still remember its violence for check the incredible kids. And they are want they want to talk to each other privately without her mother learning what talking about. So here they are using this lead pipe, which is that cannot be secure Channel and and violent can say to that track that she doesn't want to do her homework and check it was the watch movie. And she knows that the judge will understand what she says. We hear what she says, but her mother, their mother, is not going to anything because it z this lead pipe. She doesn't know what they're talking about. Um and and and we know how to implement this actually in without lead pipes in the software will Do you have encryption, which, you know, you know, for I know, uh, 40 for the last 40 years or so, but actually for many more s. Oh, this is great. Encryption gives us private communication against, uh, eavesdropping adversary. So passive adversaries s but But you know that mothers can be more than passives. What if the mother he goes and asks Pilot that? What did you talk? What do you say to judge it So you know, if valid, really said, you know, used this'll end pipe. She can say whatever she wants to say. I actually said that I was study, and then the mother goes to judge. I can ask him what did about tell you, and she said that she was studied and the mother still cannot tell anything about what happened. She doesn't know trillions. Death was sent or not. Um, in fact, even if violence said that she was studying and and Jackson said something else that you know, she said she was she rather watch movie. Even then the mother doesn't know who was right. I mean, not from the pipe music. Look them in the eye and not this way, but not from the communication she doesn't. Andi. In fact, we could go on like this, and, you know, the lead type doesn't help at all to understand what really have. And this is really another very important form off this really secure channels that it doesn't allow external parties. Course, there's, uh, certain what really happened. Even when they asked to see all the internals of all the parties. In fact, even further, the Violet Jack Jack have no way to actually convince the mother that this is what happened. Even if you want, right, they have no way of actually proving to the mother that they said this and not the other thing with this lead pipe. So the question is can be obtained a similar effects with, you know, software encryption. Uh, can we have an encryption scheme that has the same sort of properties? So we know that Peoria, the total encryption doesn't have this property. That encryption leaves traces. So there's this cipher text that that the mother of the course of seized. Then when the mother goes toe the parties and you know the ballot judge, you can ask him uh, give me. Show me your randomness. Show me all the internals. I want to see what really? How you generated the text and how you decrypted it with no money. Encryption is only one way that, but inject, checking opened the suffer text, and therefore, there is no real privacy anymore. Um, so So this is the case. So so really to do to address this issue? The this this concept of deniable encryption that was considered, uh, you know, many years ago. Andi idea here is that you wanted encryption scheme that provides, uh, protection of privacy. Uh, on ability, toe keep private. You really, really, really value. And maybe, ah, fake or lie about what you say in a convincing way, even against such a course. Uh huh. So and so? So the idea is that, you know, So they actually do you think of three types here, So there is centered in apple. So we're just going us to center off the off the message. You know how How did you encrypt the message? Show me your encryption. Andalus Suing The decryption key is public. Um, and if you go to the receiver and ask him show me your decryption key. I want to see how you decrypted. And you can also think about natural case where the course actually goes to both parties and ask them for the for the internals and compares one against the other. Right? So this is the bite inability concept. Andi, you can, of course, naturally generalize it. Not just to encryption to, say, two party competition soon here, Violent and Jack. Jack. You know, uh, maybe not even trust each other fully, But they want toe compute together, you know? Or, you know, do they actually know a kid they both know and rapes in school, Right. So, So, So violent has her own list of kids, and she knows grapes and injection to, and they want to do this to Paris ST secure competition to figure out if they keep the both. And so if they have this ideal trusted party or stay for somewhere where they can actually do the security applications uh um, securely then they can, of course, learned the answer without learning anything else. And also, if the mother comes in after the fact and ask them, you know who I see that you were trying to figure out who very school, you know. So tell me what you did. Tell me your inputs them you are supposed to give me all the randomness. And And I want to know for the kids that you know, that vaping school. So if they were using such such a physically, I didn't secure gadget then, uh, then they can say You know why? You know? So So what is the state of, I don't know, anybody Invasion did Jack this theater and I got nothing into something or nothing. Jake Jackson. Consistency and off course. Mother has no way of knowing if this is true. No. And even if, uh, injected decides to tell the truth and actually tells is really important. Really put real randomness. And, uh, no randomness here and violent tells still here. Nothing. Nothing that the mother has no way of knowing which one is like. She clearly some of one of them is language. Doesn't know which one. I mean, chicken again looked deep in the eye, but not from the communication. She cannot figure out. Um, so s so we want to get something like that for for two party competition. Uh, and and and again, eso again, again, again. The case that, you know, one is like going to the truth is still don't know. Um, so the question is there a protocol that that one is still behavior, and, uh, incredible. How do you define us? Uh, and the point is that, you know, Okay, 11 further thing toe. Think about, you know, this doesn't shouldn't end with two parties can think about three or more parties on, uh, and the same thing happens. You know, just maybe the trust structure, the consistency structure becomes more complicated. Uh, you know, you could buy groups of people which is consistent with each other and not without, um Okay, so So what are our results here? So first result is regarding encryption. So we come up with the first bite, the novel communication protocol. It's not encryption because it's three messages. Uh, so it is three messages, and it is this way need a reference string, which is like, programs in the sky. And but it's a short registering. I mean, one short programs that everybody in the world uses for the encryptions for the entire duration of time. and our assumptions are some expansion, Leo in one functions, uh, and on. But just to say that what was done previously? It was just senator deniable or receiver deniable, um, And then and nothing that we do is that actually way define and also obtained this extra property, which we call off the record inability which talks with you about the case where, as I said before, that one party, uh uh, is saying one thing and the other practicing nothing they insisted. So they cannot. There is no way for them to frame each other. Um, and the way the other result is regarding a multiparty function evaluation on Dhere, we come up with the first all deniable secure function evaluation for quote Well, you know, I mean, I mean that the protocol with the adversary or the coarser expect to see all off the transcript of the competition, including all the randomness in all the internal state of all the parties eso superiors results in this area always assumed that you know, either the course only can concourse on some of the parties or if you can force all the parties and there is some some physical gadget, uh, which is crucial information about the personnel puts and you know, nobody can see inside, so no, here, we actually that the Attackers see everything. Uh, because they think they see everything on we can still provide inability onda protocol. Also, our protocols also withstand inconsistencies. Mean the case off this off the record style that one party says one thing partisans don't think. But this is only in the case of two parties and only for functions where the input size is polynomial in play. Put size. Uh, domain. Um, so in this actually interested open question how to extend it beyond that. Uh, so just to say that this is kind of it's a surprising thing that you can even do such thing, because what it allows you to do is actually such to completely rewrite history. Eso you during your competition on. Then somebody comes, and that will show me everything that happened. All the runners, all the entire transcript, the competition from beginning to the end. And you can now tell them something else. Not something that really happened. I mean, they see, you know, the public messages they see it on thistle is un contestable, but you can show different internals that there are very different than what really happened. And still nobody can catch you. So it's really some sense. Uh, who knows what's really happened? Um, so anyway, so So this is the, uh this is the result. Let's just say a few words about fully deniable encryption. Uh, just toe give a more detailed So So So So, how do you define this? Fully deniable encryption. So first I want to say that, you know, if you just, uh if the parties have appreciate key then, uh, deniability is with these because what you know, you just in orderto cryptic message just want some part of the key. And this one temple is completely deniable, right? Because you can just take this self a text and claim that it was any message encryption off any message off your choice. But just, you know, extra it. But just coming up with the key, which is the Solvents Architects as a message of futures. So this is completely diamond by both parties, and even it's off the record because if the two parties say different things, there's no way to know what's right. So Eh, so what? But it means that, you know, the hard part is actually had to come up with this shirt key, uh, in a deniable way. So you can actually later argued that this key was an, um so s so we need kind of deniable key exchange, and then this is what we do. So we come up with this idea by by the application of what? This what this means. So it's a protocol, you know, for two parties, uh, change, keep with messages and which gives you the ability to life. Somebody asked you which was key and claim it was anything, uh, later. So more formally. So we have two parties. One You know, this is the key change protocol for one party, and this is the kitchen for the other party in each party also is equipped with this faking algorithm. This is s faking arctic. I keep, you know, Senator, receiver, Even though it's not teach change, it's affecting and breaking. Allows you to come up with fake randomness. That demonstrate kills anything and we want correctly since semantic security as usual and we want toe this s fake takes a transcript and the randomness and the old key in the nuclear that you want. Andi comes up with fake randomness such that, uh um and this is you know, that that consistent with this new key, k prime and the same for the receiver. It comes up with a new randomness. The assistant to the crime and the requirement is that, uh, the attack. I cannot tell the difference between the experiment when you know the key key was exchanged. These transcripts respecto the real key or the case where the key was exchanged, and then the faking accurately going folk What? The adversary seizes the actual transcript, but then opening to a different. So there's a distinguished group. Um, And then what if the parties that were okay then there is another requirement there that says that even if the parties you know, one of them face, the other one doesn't and they then you can't tell which one will effect in which one wants to tell the truth. Onda point is that this to this to produce properties together really give you what you would like for my dearly your channel, even with respect toe courses. Um, so just to point out that you know this, this properties hold only if the parties in the follow the protocol during the execution actually choose randomness is they should. Otherwise things does work. In fact, otherwise, there's nothing that could work because the party's chief from the beginning and just use the terroristic protocol instead of randomized or just, you know, just randomness, which is predetermined. And, of course, nothing you can do. Uh, however, you know, there are, of course, interesting situations where it is. You know, it's reasonable to trust that the parties are actually using the randomness Aziz instructed during the execution of the protocol, for instance, we're thinking about voting this something can be forced, uh, by the voting booth, but you know, other situations. But this is kind of like essentially eso maybe another minute to say a few words about, you know, just like construction. How it kind of works in, you know, in general. So So we have, like, a three months, three rounds protocols. So we have four programs, you know, two from each party don't to deal with the three messages. Then we have a faking program for each party, so the way it works, you know, first, the violent here is has this is Harris randomness and actually chooses the key that they're going Thio agree ahead of time. It inputs to the first program which is going to think of it is the office care program black box program. And there's the message. First message is basically a harsh appear f off the K and then the, uh and then the responder gets this message has its own randomness and outputs. Another message, which is the hash off the first message agronomists. And then the third message now is going to be a new encryption off the key on the hashes and the end to a previous messages. This is, ah, company encryption off this one long spring and then the fourth with the fourth program just takes the randomness off the receiver and the two messages and put it in. And then I'll put the key, which is decrypted essentially the Crips, the subtextual from here in the old checks, right? And then the faking programs. What they do, they just take those. The transcript and the cookie and the new key and the striking program here are puts a new randomness for the senator and this one There's a new randomness for the receiver and the way it does near random estrogen offering work eyes, uh, is again It's kind of fact natural a t least the face of it. It uses the seeking hidden triggers idea off, off, so high in waters for descending on the inability that, you know, trigger each one of those programs toe put actually write message even when you get this, uh, crime on eventually this k problems are Well, the problem is that this scene in triggers, you know, give you local consistency for each problem by itself. This was this was the east their goal. But there is no global consistency about those six programs together and and get the six programs together to be consistent with the fact that the key would actually keep prominent K is high in contribute. And this is something that we become the main challenge of this work. This also, I did this three messages because if you have only to then there is no way to get a double consistency. Ah, s O s. So this is, uh this is the test on just to say about, you know, the future. So definitely we want stronger than ability for for MPC. As I said, we just give partial results there on. Then there is kind of, like some very interesting questions. One is like in general, You know, we know that your is very nice, but in many cases, we actually can do things without, uh but in this situation with prosecution, but maybe the inability of one of the very few cases where actually, we don't have any other way to do things out of the Neo. Is it really essential? Can we prove it? You know, and if not, can we do without? Can we get around CRS? Can you actually do with public friend of mysterious? Uh, you know, and more generally? Uh, no. We actually, uh, sweated a lot. You know, spit blood. In order to make this thing work with Leo and because I always really hard to work with, you know, would agree toe, find some some some general set of tools to work more easily. I was there. Um, Louis, thank you very much on death's

>>Hi, Oleg. So great of you to join us today. I'm really looking forward to our session. Eso Let's get started. So if I can get you to give a quick intro to yourself and then if you can share with us what you're going to be discussing today >>Hi, Jake. In my name is Oleg Elbow. I'm a product architect and the Doctor Enterprise Container Cloud team. Uh, today I'm going to talk about running kubernetes on bare metal with a container cloud. My goal is going to tell you about this exciting feature and why we think it's important and what we actually did to make it possible. >>Brilliant. Thank you very much. So let's get started. Eso from my understanding kubernetes clusters are typically run in virtual machines in clouds. So, for example, public cloud AWS or private cloud maybe open staff based or VM ware V sphere. So why why would you go off and run it on their mettle? >>Well, uh, the Doctor Enterprise container cloud already can run Coburn eighties in the cloud, as you know, and the idea behind the container clouds to enable us to manage multiple doctor enterprise clusters. But we want to bring innovation to kubernetes. And instead of spending a lot of resources on the hyper visor and virtual machines, we just go all in for kubernetes directly environmental. >>Fantastic. So it sounds like you're suggesting then to run kubernetes directly on their mettle. >>That's correct. >>Fantastic and without a hyper visor layer. >>Yes, we all know the reasons to run kubernetes and virtual machines it's in The first place is mutual mutual isolation off workloads, but virtualization. It comes with the performance, heat and additional complexity. Uh, another. And when Iran coordinated the director on the hardware, it's a perfect opportunity for developers. They can see performance boost up to 30% for certain container workloads. Uh, this is because the virtualization layer adds a lot off overhead, and even with things like enhanced placement awareness technologies like Numa or processor opinion, it's it's still another head. By skipping over the virtualization, we just remove this overhead and gained this boost. >>Excellent, though it sounds like 30% performance boost very appealing. Are there any other value points or positive points that you can pull out? >>Yes, Besides, the hyper visor over had virtual machines. They also have some static resource footprint. They take up the memory and CPU cycles and overall reintroduces the density of containers per host. Without virtual machines, you can run upto 16% more containers on the same host. >>Excellent. Really great numbers there. >>One more thing to point out directly. Use environmental makes it easier to use a special purpose hardware like graphic processors or virtual no virtual network functions for don't work interfaces or the field programmable gate arrays for custom circuits, Uh, and you can share them between containers more efficiently. >>Excellent. I mean, there's some really great value points you pulled out there. So 30% performance boost, 60% density boost on it could go off and support specialized hardware a lot easier. But let's talk about now. The applications. So what sort of applications do you think would benefit from this The most? >>Well, I'm thinking primarily high performance computations and deep learning will benefit, Uh, which is the more common than you might think of now they're artificial Intelligence is gripping into a lot off different applications. Uh, it really depends on memory capacity and performance, and they also use a special devices like F P G s for custom circuits widely sold. All of it is applicable to the machine learning. Really? >>And I mean, that whole ai piece is I mean, really exciting. And we're seeing this become more commonplace across a whole host of sectors. So you're telcos, farmers, banking, etcetera. And not just I t today. >>Yeah, that's indeed very exciting. Uh, but creating communities closer environmental, unfortunately, is not very easy. >>Hope so it sounds like there may be some challenges or complexities around it. Ondas this, I guess. The reason why there's not many products then out there today for kubernetes on their metal on baby I like. Could you talk to us then about some of the challenges that this might entail? >>Well, there are quite a few challenges first, and for most, there is no one way to manage governmental infrastructures Nowadays. Many vendors have their solutions that are not always compatible with each other and not necessarily cover all aspects off this. Um So we've worked an open source project called metal cube metal cooped and integrated it into the doctor Enterprise Container Cloud To do this unified bar middle management for us. >>And you mentioned it I hear you say is that open source? >>There is no project is open source. We had a lot of our special sauce to it. Um, what it does, Basically, it enables us to manage the hardware servers just like a cloud server Instances. >>And could you go? I mean, that's very interesting, but could you go into a bit more detail and specifically What do you mean? As cloud instances, >>of course they can. Generally, it means to manage them through some sort of a p I or programming interface. Uh, this interface has to cover all aspects off the several life cycle, like hardware configuration, operating system management network configuration storage configuration, Uh, with help off Metal cube. We extend the carbonated C p i to enable it to manage bare metal hosts. And aled these suspects off its life cycle. The mental que project that's uses open stack. Ironic on. Did it drops it in the Cuban. It s a P I. And ironic does all the heavy lifting off provisioned. It does it in a very cloud native way. Uh, it configures service using cloud they need, which is very familiar to anyone who deals with the cloud and the power is managed transparently through the i p my protocol on. But it does a lot to hide the differences between different hardware hosts from the user and in the Doctor Enterprise Container Cloud. We made everything so the user doesn't really feel the difference between bare metal server and cloud VM. >>So, Oleg, are you saying that you can actually take a machine that's turned off and turn it on using the commands? >>That's correct. That's the I. P M I. R Intelligent platform management interface. Uh, it gives you an ability to interact directly with the hardware. You can manager monitor things like power, consumption, temperature, voltage and so on. But what we use it for is to manage the food source and the actual power state of the server. So we have a group of service that are available and we can turn them on. And when we need them, just if we were spinning the VM >>Excellent. So that's how you get around the fact that while aled cloud the ends of the same, the hardware is all different. But I would assume you would have different server configurations in one environment So how would you get around that? >>Uh, yeah, that Zatz. Excellent questions. So some elements of the berm mental management the FBI that we developed, they are specifically to enable operators toe handle wider range of hardware configurations. For example, we make it possible to consider multiple network interfaces on the host. We support flexible partitioning off hard disks and other storage devices. We also make it possible thio boot remote live using the unified extended firmware interface for modern systems. Or just good old bias for for the legacy ones. >>Excellent. So yeah, thanks. Thanks for sharing that that. Now let's take a look at the rest of the infrastructure and eggs. So what about things like networking and storage house that managed >>Oh, Jakey, that's some important details. So from the networking standpoint, the most important thing for kubernetes is load balancing. We use some proven open source technologies such a Zengin ICS and met a little bit to handle. Handle that for us and for the storage. That's ah, a bit more tricky part. There are a lot off different stories. Solutions out. There s o. We decided to go with self and ah cooperator for self self is very much your and stable distributed stories system. It has incredible scalability. We actually run. Uh, pretty big clusters in production with chef and rock makes the life cycle management for self very robust and cloud native with health shaking and self correction. That kind of stuff. So any kubernetes cluster that Dr Underprice Container Cloud provision for environmental Potentially. You can have the self cluster installed self installed in this cluster and provide stories that is accessible from any node in the cluster to any port in the cluster. So that's, uh, called Native Storage components. Native storage. >>Wonderful. But would that then mean that you'd have to have additional hardware so mawr hardware for the storage cluster, then? >>Not at all. Actually, we use Converse storage architecture in the current price container cloud and the workloads and self. They share the same machines and actually managed by the same kubernetes cluster A. Some point in the future, we plan to add more fully, even more flexibility to this, uh, self configuration and enable is share self, where all communities cluster will use a single single self back, and that's that's not the way for us to optimize our very basically. >>Excellent. So thanks for covering the infrastructure part. What would be good is if we can get an understanding them for that kind of look and feel, then for the operators and the users of the system. So what can they say? >>Yeah, the case. We know Doc Enterprise Container Cloud provides a web based user interface that is, uh, but enables to manage clusters. And the bare metal management actually is integrated into this interface and provides provides very smooth user experience. A zone operator, you need to add or enrolled governmental hosts pretty much the same way you add cloud credentials for any other for any other providers for any other platforms. >>Excellent. I mean, Oleg, it sounds really interesting. Would you be able to share some kind of demo with us? It be great to see this in action. Of >>course. Let's let's see what we have here. So, >>uh, thank you. >>Uh, so, first of all, you take a bunch of governmental service and you prepare them, connect and connect them to the network is described in the dogs and bootstrap container cloud on top of these, uh, three of these bare metal servers. Uh, once you put through, you have the container cloud up and running. You log into the u I. Let's start here. And, uh, I'm using the generic operator user for now. Its's possible to integrate it with your in the entity system with the customer and the entity system and get real users there. Mhm. So first of all, let's create a project. It will hold all off our clusters. And once we created it, just switched to it. And the first step for an operator is to add some burr metal hosts of the project. As you see it empty, uh, toe at the berm. It'll host. You just need a few parameters. Uh, name that will allow you to identify the server later. Then it's, ah, user name and password to access the IBM. My controls off the server next on, and it's very important. It's the hardware address off the first Internet port. It will be used to remotely boot the server over network. Uh, finally, that Z the i p address off the i p m i n point and last, but not the least. It's the bucket, uh, toe Assign the governmental host to. It's a label that is assigned to it. And, uh, right now we offer just three default labels or buckets. It's, ah, manager, manager, hosts, worker hosts and storage hosts. And depending on the hardware configuration of the server, you assign it to one of these three groups. You will see how it's used later in the phone, so note that least six servers are required to deploy managed kubernetes cluster. Just as for for the cloud providers. Um, there is some information available now about the service is the result of inspection. By the way, you can look it up. Now we move. Want to create a cluster, so you need to provide the name for the cluster. Select the release off Dr Enterprise Engine and next next step is for provider specific information. You need to specify the address of the Class three guy and point here, and the range of feathers is for services that will be installed in the cluster. The user war close um kubernetes Network parameter school be changed as well, but the defaults are usually okay. Now you can enable or disable stack light the monitoring system for the Burnett's cluster and provide some parameters to eat custom parameters. Uh, finally you click create to create the cluster. It's an empty cluster that we need to add some machines to. So we need a least three manager notes. The form is very simple. You just select the roll off the community snowed. It's either manager of worker Onda. You need to select this label bucket from which the environmental hospital we picked. We go with the manager label for manager notes and work your label for the workers. Uh, while question is deploying, let's check out some machine information. The storage data here, the names off the disks are taken from the environmental host Harbor inspection data that we checked before. Now we wait for servers to be deployed. Uh, it includes ah, operating system, and the government is itself. So uh, yeah, that's that's our That's our you user interface. Um, if operators need to, they can actually use Dr Enterprise Container Container cloud FBI for some more sophisticated, sophisticated configurations or to integrate with an external system, for example, configuration database. Uh, all the burr mental tasks they just can be executed through the carbonated C. P. I and by changing the custom resources customer sources describing the burr mental notes and objects >>Mhm, brilliant. Well, thank you for bringing that life. It's always good. Thio See it in action. I guess from my understanding, it looks like the operators can use the same tools as develops or developers but for managing their infrastructure, then >>yes, Exactly. For example, if you're develops and you use lands, uh, to monitor and manage your cluster, uh, the governmental resources are just another set of custom resources for you. Uh, it is possible to visualize and configure them through lands or any other developer to for kubernetes. >>Excellent. So from what I can see, that really could bridge the gap, then between infrastructure operators on develops and developer teams. Which is which is a big thing? >>Yes, that's that's Ah, one of our aspirations is to unify the user experience because we've seen a lot of these situations when infrastructure is operated by one set of tools and the container platform uses agnostic off it end users and offers completely different set of tools. So as a develops, you have to be proficient in both, and that's not very sustainable for some developers. Team James. >>Sure. Okay, well, thanks for covering that. That's great. E mean, there's obviously other container platforms out there in the market today. It would be great if you could explain only one of some of the differences there and in how Dr Enterprise Container Cloud approaches bare metal. >>Yeah, that's that's a That's an excellent question, Jake. Thank you. So, uh, in container cloud in the container Cloud Burr Mental management Unlike another container platforms, Burr metal management is highly and is tightly integrated in the in the product. It's integrated on the U and the A p I, and on the back and implementation level. Uh, other platforms typically rely on the user to provision in the ber metal hosts before they can deploy kubernetes on it. Uh, this leaves the operating system management hardware configuration hardware management mostly with dedicated infrastructure greater steam. Uh, Dr Enterprise Container Cloud might help to reduce this burden and this infrastructure management costs by just automated and effectively removing the part of responsibility from the infrastructure operators. And that's because container cloud on bare metal is essentially full stack solution. It includes the hardware configuration covers, operating system lifecycle management, especially, especially the security updates or C e updates. Uh, right now, at this point, the only out of the box operating system that we support is you, Bhutto. We're looking to expand this, and, as you know, the doctor Enterprise engine. It makes it possible to run kubernetes on many different platforms, including even Windows. And we plan to leverage this flexibility in the doctor enterprise container cloud full extent to expand this range of operating systems that we support. >>Excellent. Well, Oleg, we're running out of time. Unfortunately, I mean, I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today. You've pulled out some excellent points you talked about potentially up to a 30% performance boost up to 60% density boost. Um, you've also talked about how it can help with specialized hardware and make this a lot easier. Um, we also talked about some of the challenges that you could solve, obviously, by using docker enterprise container clouds such as persistent storage and load balancing. There's obviously a lot here, but thank you so much for joining us today. It's been fantastic. And I hope that we've given some food for thoughts to go out and try and deployed kubernetes on Ben. It'll so thanks. So leg >>Thank you for coming. BJ Kim

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the cube now here's your host David on tape the imperative to protect data has never been more pressing as companies transform themselves from businesses into digital businesses the intrinsic value of their data Rises exponentially the problem for infrastructure pros is that everything in IT is additive it seems like nothing ever dies which means more things to manage now think about that when you're protecting data you have bare metal VMs now containers you've got cloud you got to worry about the edge all this data needs to be protected not only does this increase complexity it expands the attack surface for adversaries wanting to steal or ransom your data at the heart of all this is a build out of a massively global distributed cloud we saw wave 1 of the cloud which was public wave 2 was really hybrid and that's evolving now in parallel you're seeing the emergence of multi cloud and as I said these earlier trends are additive they're not replacements and with me to discuss these important issues and how Dell EMC specifically is pivoting toward cloud data protection is Beth Phelan who is the president of Dell emcs Data Protection Division that's great to see you well good to be here again so we know the world is hybrid it's a fundamental the on-prem stuff is part of the fundamental digital digital transformations of these these companies and now you've got data protection for the cloud so what do you see happening in that world yeah let's start with what we're seeing in the market we recently remade on our global data protection index we've been doing it for many years and we've been really using that to help us understand the landscape and what our customers need and first not surprisingly it shows that continued trend of movement and reliance towards cloud environments for business applications continuing to increase on top of that the customers despite that are continuing to struggle with ensuring they have the right data protection for their cloud environments right so they're they're struggling you see that we see that as well what what's going on there well what is the data tell you yeah first of all more than half of the customers don't have a comprehensive data protection solution for their Salas cloud native and multi cloud environments more than two-thirds of the customers who may be relying on their cloud service providers for data protection say that they do not have a solution that covers all of their workloads so whether they're working with a cloud service provider or some other vendor they're being really clear that they do not have a comprehensive approach to cloud data protection yeah so I mean you see the cloud adoption is going like crazy but it seems like the data protection component is lagging how is that affecting the traction in your business yeah you know it's a double-edged sword right on one level customers see the advantages of moving to a cloud on the other hand you know they are really looking for vendors that they can partner with to still have the same confidence that the data is protected that they have on Prem and what we're seeing now is that customers are turning to us to help solve that problem we have over a thousand customers using Dell EMC for their Cloud Data Protection and we're narrowing in on three exabyte the data that we're currently protecting in the cloud so it's happening yeah that's pretty good traction so I want to talk about VMware obviously VMware is the linchpin of many customers hybrid strategy and it's a clearly an important component of Dell technologies talk a little bit about the relationship between Dell EMC data protection specifically and VMware I'm interested in you know they've announced project tenzou and there's kubernetes how are you guys working together to really deliver a value for customers so we are super excited about the opportunity to work so closely with VMware because as they're cut in their domain we're working directly with them and that's an advantage that comes with being part of the dell technologies family and so we were the first company to bring data protection for were kubernetes environments out to market it's available now so you'll see us bring that into the tenzou mission-critical has been moved forward partnering closely with with vmware and of course we're already fully certified for vmware cloud it's really an ongoing regular conversation about how we can work together to bring the best to our customers so Beth I gotta ask you so you're part of your role as the leader of the the division is obviously you gotta get a lot of mouths to feed big division you got to make your plan you got to deliver for customers but strategy is another key component of this how do all these cloud trends shape your strategy so core to our strategy is to be the essential provider of data protection for multi cloud environments so no matter where customers are choosing to deploy their applications they can have the same confidence that they always did that that data is protected and the way they can get it back so that's core and if you want three words to remember for our strategy think VMware cloud and cyber cloud is central to it and you're going to be hearing a lot more about it in the weeks and months ahead okay so I gotta ask you break out your binoculars maybe even the telescope what are the future what are the future's look like when you think about the division and the market so we've been talking about cloud for a long time but we are still in the middle of this journey customers are going to rely on the cloud even more for additional use cases and especially in the data protection space right now we're seeing backup to the cloud dr to the cloud but the future will include cyber resiliency that's leveraging cloud deployments you're also going to see more and more of an emphasis on people leveraging SAS for their software consumption and for us that means not only protecting SAS applications but it also means giving customers the option to consume data protection in a SAS model we already do that today with things like cloud snapshot manager with things like the power protect management and orchestration but you're going to see us do even more of that because they're just incredible benefits of people leveraging sass to consume their software data constantly evolving lamps landscape data protection has to evolve with it Beth thanks so much for thank you and thank you keep it right there we'll be right back right after this short break from world famous cloud Studios Dell Technologies presents the world's number one show on data protection solutions for today's organizations it's proven in modern magazine with Jake and Emmy hello everyone and welcome to the premiere of PM magazine where we cover the proven Dell technology solutions that you've come to rely on and the latest modern innovation driving powerful data protection for the future I recently spent some quality time with one of our customers and I learned a thing or two about Dell proven data protection solutions let's watch the clip we've always relied on tell performance efficiency and scale to help us keep pace with our data protection needs but there's so much more for example we've been crushing it with Dell cloud data protection for backup to the cloud in cloud backup cloud tearing cloud dr uh-huh look at the picture it's a huge business advantage how so our costs are down we spend less time on management we're meeting our service levels and we have peace of mind that all of our data is protected right awesome did you talk about how Dells agile development approach is accelerating the speed at which we deliver customer value yes and how cloud capabilities will continue to grow yes and about VMware protection yes and cyber recovery yes I mean we covered all of that as well as the mega trends that require data protection with a modern approach well modern is exactly what our guests today are here to discuss Jake he is Ken fatale a noted data protection expert and joining us from the field on her vacation in the Bahamas is Barbara Penner of the data management Institute thank you both for being here so Ken what should our viewers think about when they hear the phrase modern data protection they should think new requirements for modern applications cloud native workloads Cubana is multi-cloud and data services to name a few Barbara would you add anything to that list I would add business service recovery on premises or in the cloud autonomous protection to auto detect and protect workloads across edge core and cloud infrastructure and lastly all of this must operate at global scale thank you both this is exactly where we're heading with Dell power protect solutions well it's time for a break but when we come back we've got something special in store for you don't we Jake I was hoping you forgot oh no someone learned how to make cream puffs and it did not turn out well for him yeah my apologies in advance to my mother who tried to show me around the kitchen but as you can see we'll be right back [Music] we're back with Rob and Rob Emslie who's the director of product marketing for Delhi MCS data protection division Rob good to see you hi Dave good to be back so we just heard from Beth about some of the momentum that you guys have from your perspective from a product angle what is really driving this yeah well one of the things that we've you know definitely seen is that as we talk to our customers both existing and new customers cloud journeys is is top of mind for all of the CIOs it's being driven by either the desire to drive efficiency take out costs and data protection is one of the the most common use cases and one of the things that we find is that there's four use cases for data protection that we see long term retention of data cloud disaster recovery backup to the cloud and the emerging desire to stand up new applications in the cloud that need to be protected so backup in the cloud really completes the four major use cases well one of the things I think is really important this market is that you deliver optionality to your customers so how are our customers enabling these use cases yeah so the the first two UK's first two use cases of long term retention and cleitus recovery is is really driven by our software on our appliances both of those are really predicated based upon the assumption that customers are going to deploy data protection on premises to protect their on-premises workloads and then it's here to the cloud or which is becoming more common used to cloud as a disaster recovery target you know it's delivered by our data protection software and that's either in a software form factor or that software delivered in an integrated appliance form factor so let's talk about purpose-built backup appliances I think you know our friends at IDC I think you know coined that they tracked that market for a while you guys have been a leader there the acquisition of data domain obviously put you in a really strong position give us the update there is it's still a vibrant market is it growing what's the size it's it look like yeah so as we look at 2020 you know IDC forecasts the market size to be a little under five billion dollars so it's still a very large market the overall market is growing at a little over four percent but the interesting thing is that if you think about how the market is is made up it's made up of two different types of appliances one is a target appliance such as data domain and the new power protect dd and the other is integrated appliances where you integrate the target appliance architecture with data protection software and it's the integrated appliance part of the market that is really growing faster than the other part of the of the people being market it's actually growing at 8% in fact IBC's projection is that by 2022 half of the purpose-built back to appliance market will be made up of integrated appliance solutions so it's growing at twice the overall market rate but you guys have two integrated appliances what why - how should people think about those yeah so a little under three years ago we introduced a new integrated appliance the called the integrated data protection appliance it was really the combination of our backup software with our data domain appliance architecture and the integrated air protection appliance has been our workhorse for the last three years really allowing us to to support that that fastest-growing segment of the market in fact last year the integrated air protection appliance grew by over a hundred percent so triple digit growth was great you know it's something that you know allows us to address all market segments all the way down to SMB all the way to the enterprise but last year one of the things you may remember at Delta Nadi's world is we introduced our power to protect portfolio you know and that constituted power protect data manager our new software to find platform as well as the delivery of packet there in an integrated appliance form-factor with perfectly x400 so that's really our our new scale out data protection appliance we've never had a scale out appliance in the architecture before in the portfolio before and that gives us the ability to offer customers choice scale up or scale out integrated and target and with the X 400 it's available is a hybrid configuration or it's also our first or flash architecture so really we're providing customers with the existing software solutions that we've had in the market for a long time an integrated form factor with the integrator protection appliance as well as the brand-new software platform that will really be our innovation engine that will be where we'll be looking at supporting new workloads and certainly leaning into how we support cloud air protection and the hybrid cloud reality of the next decade okay so one of the other things I want to explore is we've heard a lot about your new agile development organization Beth has talked about that a lot and the benefit obviously is you're more you're able to get products out more quickly respond to market changes but ultimately the proof is in translating that development into product what can you tell us about how that's progressing yep so certainly with Papa Tech Data Manager and the X 400 that really is the the epicenter of our agile product development activities you know we've moved to a three-month cadence for software releases so working to deliver a small batch releases into the market much more rapidly than we've ever done before in fact since we introduced palpitate Denham manager where we we shipped the first release in July we're now at the third iteration of palpitate Data Manager and therefore the third iteration of the x100 appliance so there's three things that you know I'd like to highlight within the x100 appliance specifically first is really the the exciting news that we've introduced support for kubernetes so we're really the first you know large enterprise data protection vendor to to lean into providing kubernetes data protection so that becomes the vitally important especially with the developments over our partner in VMware with vSphere 7 with the introduction of tan zoo and the reality is that customers will have both these fear virtual machines and kubernetes containers working side-by-side and both of those environments need to be protected soap a patek denim algae and the x400 appliance has that support available now for customers to take advantage of second we talked about long-term retention of of data in the cloud the x100 appliance has just received the capabilities to also take part in long term retention to AWS so those are two very important cloud capabilities that are brand-new with the excellent appliance and then finally we introduced yet 400 appliance with a maximum configuration of four capacity cubes rough-and-tough that was 400 terabytes of usable capacity we've just introduced support of 12 capacity cubes so that gives the customers the ability to scale out the x100 appliance from 64 terabytes all the way to over a petabyte storage so now if you look at our two integrated appliances we now cover the landscape from small numbers of terabytes all the way through to a petabyte of capacity whether or not you pick a scale up architecture or a scale length architecture yeah so that really comes back to the point I was making about optionality and kubernetes is key it's gonna be a linchpin obviously a portability for multi cloud sets that up as we've said it's it's not the be-all end-all but it's a really necessary condition to enable multi cloud which is fundamental to your strategy absolutely alright Rob thanks very much for coming on the cube it's great to have you thanks Dave and thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Volante for the cube we'll see you next time [Music]

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's two cubes. Live coverage I'm John for with the Cube were here reinvent date, too, as it winds down Walter Wall interviews two sets here. We want to think Intel, big sponsor of this, said we without Intel, we wouldn't have this great content. They support our mission at the Q. We really appreciate it. We're here and strengthen the signal the noise on our seventh reinvent of the eight years that they've been here. We've been documenting history, and we got a great panel lined up here. They got Sebastian to holler Who's the CEO? Sale Drone. Henry Stalls, Stool The VP of Science and Technology and Bowery Farming. Great use case around the food supply and Janet his era space weather scientists at NASA. The Kilo Physics division. We got a great lineup here. Great panel. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Okay. We'll start with you, Jen. And you're doing some super cool space exploration. You're looking at super storms in space. What's your story? >>Yeah, I work at NASA and NASA has in its mandate to understand how to protect life on Earth and in space from events like space, weather and other things. And I'm working with Amazon right now to understand how storms in space get amplified into super storms in space, which now people understand, can have major impacts on infrastructures head earth like power grits. >>So there's impact. >>There's a >>guy's measuring that, not like a supernova critical thing like >>that >>of, like, practical space. >>Actually, the idea that the perception of the world of the other risks of space weather changed dramatically in 1989 when Superstorm actually caused the collapse of a power grid in Canada and the currents flowing in the ground from the storm entered the power grid and it collapsed in 90 seconds. It couldn't even intervene. >>Wow, some serious issues. We want to get into the machine learning and how you guys are applying. But let's get through here, and we're doing some pretty cool stuff that's really important. Mission. Food supply and global food supply something that you're doing. What I think it might explain. >>Yeah, Bowery were growing food for a better future by revolutionizing agriculture. And to do that, we're building these ah network of large warehouse scale indoor farms where we go all sorts of produce indoors 365 days a year, using zero pesticides using hydroponic systems and led technology. So it's really exciting. And at the core of it is some technology we call the Bowery operating system, which is how we leverage software hardware in a I tow, operate and learn from our farm. >>I'm looking forward to digging into that Sebastian sale drone. You're doing some stuff you're sailing around the world. You got nice chance that you now tell your story. >>Sadly, no way. Use wind powered robots to study the 20% of the planet that's currently really data scarce. And that's the oceans on. So we measure things like biomass, which is how many fish down in the ocean. We measure the input of energy, which impacts weather and climate. We mapped the seabed on. We do all kinds of different tasks which are very, very expensive to do with few ships >>and to report now that climate change is on everyone's agenda, understanding potentially blind spots. Super important, right? >>That's what I'm trying to, You know, this whole question of if it's a question of what? When and what and how much. And so, you know, the ice is melting, the Gulf Stream is changing, and Nina is wrecking havoc. But we just do not understand this because we just don't have the data. In city, we use satellites where they have very low resolution. They cannot see through the water where you ships. No, has 16 ships he in the U. S. So we have to do better. We have to translate this into a big data problem. So that's what we're doing. We have 1000 sale drones on our plan with 100 water right now. And so we're trying to instrument old oceans all the time, >>you know, and data scales your friend because you don't want more data. Yes. Talk about what you're working on. What kind of a I in machine learning are you doing? You just gathering day. Then you're pumping it up to the cloud via satellites or what's going on there? >>One of the one of the use cases trying to understand you know who's out there. What are they doing? Another doing anything illegal. So to do this, you need to use cameras and look at the horizon and detect. You know whether you have vessels. And if those vessels are not transmitting the position, it means that they're trying to stay hidden on the ocean. And so we use machine learning and I that we train on on AWS to try to understand what where those things are. It's hard enough on land at sea. It's very hard because every pixel is moving. You have waves. The horizon is moving, the skies moving, the ship is moving. And so trying to solve this problem is a completely new thing that's called maritime domain awareness on, and it's something that has never been done before. >>And what's the current status of the project? >>So wave been live for about four years now we have 100 sail drones were building one a day towards the goal of having 1000 which we covered all the planet in a six by six degrees squares on. We are operationally active in the Arctic in the tropical Pacific. In the Atlantic. We just circumnavigated Antarctica, So it's the thing. That's really it's out there. But it's very far from from from land, >>So the spirit of cloud and agility static buoy goes away. You want to put the sale drones out there to gather and move around and capture. >>That's what the buoy is. You know, a massive steel thing, which has a full mile long cable, and it's it's headed to the silo in a fix stations one point and the ocean goes by. You having and robots means that you can go where you know something interesting is happening where you have a hurricane where you might have an atmospheric river where you might have a natural catastrophe or man made catastrophe. So this intelligence of the platform is really important in the navigation. That platform requires intelligence. And on the other side, getting 1000 times more data allows you to understand things better, just like Michael is doing. >>It isn't a non profit of four profit venture. >>It's a for profit company. So we said raw data a fraction of the cost of existing solution to try to create this kind of transformative impact on understanding what's happening >>that's super exciting for all the maritime folks out there because I love the ocean myself. Henry, you you're tackling real big mission. How using technology. I can almost imagine the instrumentation must be off the charts. What's your opportunity? Looked like? A tech perspective >>s o The level of control we have in our farms is really unparalleled. Weaken tune Just about every parameter that goes into growing our plans from temperature humidity Co Two light intensity day night cycles list keeps going on. And so to do Maur with fewer resource is to grow Maurin our farms. We're doing something called science a scale where we can pull different levers and make changes to recipes in real time. And we're using a I tow, understand the impact that those changes have and to guide us going from millions of different permutations. Trillions of permutations, really too. The perfect outdone >>converging. You jittery? Look at the product outcome. You circle that dated back is all on Amazon >>way. Do operate on Amazon. Yeah, and we're using deep learning technology to analyze pictures that come from cameras all over our farms. So we actually have eyes on every single crop that grows in our facilities and So we process those, learn from the data and and funnel that back into the >>like, Maybe put more light on this or do that kind of make a just a conditions. Is that that thing? That's >>exactly it. And we grow lots of different types of plants. We grow butter, head lettuce, romaine, kale, spinach, arugula, basil, cilantro. So there's a lot of different things we grow, and each of them require different, different little tweaks here and there. Toe produced over the best tasting and most nutritious product. >>That's cool, Janet Space. Lastly, on one inspection, we're gonna live on Mars someday. So you might be a weather forecaster for what route to take to Mars. But right now, the practical matter is Israel correlation between these storms. What kind of data problem are you looking at? What is the machine learning? What are some of the cool things you're working on? >>It? We have a big date, a problem because storms of that magnitude are very rare. So it's hard for us to find enough data to train a I we can't actually train a we have to use, you know, learning that doesn't require us to train it, but we've decided to take the approach that these super storms are like anomalies on the normal weather patterns. So we're trying to use the kind of a I that you used to detect anomalies like people who are trying to break into to do bank fraud or, you know, do a Web server tax. We use that same kind of software to tryto identify anomalies that are the space weather and look at the patterns between sort of a normal, more of a normal storm and a space with a huge space weather event to see how they patterns. Comparing how you're amplifying the regular storm into this big Superstorm activity. >>So it sounds like you have to be prepared for identifying the anomaly. See you looking at anomalies to figure out where the anomaly might be ready to be ready to get the anomaly. >>Yeah, you look at the background, and then what sticks out of the background that doesn't look like the background is is identified as the anomaly. And that's the storms that air happening, which are quite rare, >>all three of you guys to do some real cutting edge cool projects. I guess my question would be for the folks that are putting their toe in the water for machine learning. They tend to be new use cases like what you guys are doing, whether it's just a company tryingto read, factor themselves or we become reborn in the cloud ran legacy stuff. When you hear it, Amazon reinvent. This is the big question for these folks that are here. You guys are on the front end of a really cool projects. What's your advice that the people are trying to get in that mindset? >>So I think I think you know the way the way to think about this is if you're good at something and if you think you have the solution for something, how can you make that a 1,000,000 times more efficient? And so the problem is, there's just not enough capacity in the world, usually to treat data sets that a 1,000,000 times larger. And this is where machine learning should be thought about it as an extension of what humans really good at using a pair of eyes, ears or whatever or the sense. And so in our case. For example, counting fish acoustician, train acoustician, look at sonar data and understand schools of fish and can recognize them. And by using this knowledge base, we can train machines to do this on a much grander scale. And when you're doing a much grander scale, you derive. Ah, holding tight to >>your point is that humans are critical. I'm the process. So scaling the human capabilities and maybe filling in another scale issues or >>that's what a machine learning is. It's the greatest enabler of our time. It enables us to do things which are impossible to do before because we just didn't have enough people to do them at scale. >>AKI is being able to ask questions, right? And so if you have the questions to ask, you can apply this technology in a way that's never really been before possible. >>You're Jake. >>Yeah, I am actually someone who didn't know anything about a Ira ml when I started. I'm on. I'm a research scientist. That space weather. So coming into this, I'm working with E m L Solutions Lab here and putting a I experts with with experts and space brother we're getting we're doing things that are gonna give us new advances. I mean, We're already seeing things we didn't know before. So I think that if you partner with people who really have strong a I knowledge, you can use your knowledge of science to really get to the really important issues. >>Okay, I have to ask the final lightning round question. What is the coolest thing that you've done with your project that you've either observed implemented? That is super cool. Super cool. What's the coolest thing >>well in in terms of us were using anomaly detection to identify storms and in the first round through it actually identified every single Superstorm, which was not the major super storms, but it did. But it also started identifying other anomalous events, and when you went looked at him, they were anomalous events. So we're seeing things. It's picking out the weird things that are happening in space weather. It's kind of exciting and interesting. >>I worked for a day with you. I would love to just leave these anomalies every what's the coolest thing that you've seen or done with your project? >>I think the fact that we've built our own custom hardware own camera systems, uh, and that we feed those through algorithms that tell us something about what's happening minute by minute with plans as they grow to see pictures of plants minute by minute, they dance and it's truly it's It's remarkable. >>Wow! Fascinating Machin >>We've counted every single fish on the West Coast, the United States, every single air from Canada to Mexico. I thought I >>was pretty >>good. I didn't think it was possible. >>Very cool. But what's the number? >>Yeah, If I could tell you, I would. But I'm not allowed to tell you the jam. >>And you know where the salmon are, where they're running all that good stuff. Awesome. Well, congratulations, You guys doing some amazing work is pioneering a great example of just what's coming. And I love this angle of making larger human impact using technology. Where you guys a shaping technology for good things. Really, really exciting. Thanks for coming on, John Kerry. We're here live in Vegas for re invent 2019. Stay with more coverage. Day three coming tomorrow back with more After this break, when a fake intel for making it all happened presented by Intel Without their sponsorship, we wouldn't be able to bring this great content. Thanks for watching