>>Okay, We're back at AWS Re. Invent. You're watching the >>cubes. Continuous coverage >>coverage. This is Day four. I think it's the first time it reinvent. We've done four days. This is our ninth year covering Reinvent. Tom Miller is here is the senior vice president of Alliances. And he's joined by Anchor Jane. Who's the global cloud? Practically practise lead at Merkel. Guys, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Tom. Tell us about Merkel. For those who might not be familiar with you. >>So Merkel is a customer experience management company. That is, um, under the Dentsu umbrella. Dense. Who is a global media agency? We represent one of the pillars which is global, our customer experience management. And they also have media and creative. And what Merkel does is provide that technology to help bring that creative and media together. They're a tech company. Yes. >>Okay, so there's some big big tail winds, changes, trends going on in the market. Obviously the pandemic. You know, the force marched to digital. Uh, there's regulation. What are some of the big waves that you guys are seeing that you're trying to ride? >>So what we're seeing is, uh we've got, uh, as a start. We've got a lot of existing databases with clients that are on Prem that we manage today within a sequel environment or so forth. And they need to move that to a cloud environment to be more flexible, more agile, provide them with more data to be able to follow that customer experience that they want with their clients, that they're all realising they need to be in a digital environment. And so that's a big push for us working with AWS and helping move our clients into that cloud environments. >>And you're relatively new to the ws world, right? Maybe you can talk >>about that anchor actually, as a partner. We may be new, but Merkel works with AWS has been working with AWS for over five years as a customer as a customer. So what we did was last year we formalise the relationship with us to be, uh, an advanced partner now. So we were part of the restock programme, basically which is a pool of very select partners. And Merkel comes in with the specialisation of marketing. So as Tom said, you know, we're part of, uh Dentsu umbrella are our core focuses on customer experience, transformation and how we do that Customer experience. Transformation is through digital transformation, data transformation. And that's where we see AWS being a very good partner to us to modernise the solutions that Martin can take to the market. >>So your on Prem databases is probably a lot of diversity on a lot of technical that when the cloud more agility, infinite resources do you have a tech stack? Are you more of an integrator? Right tool for the right job? Maybe you could describe >>your I can take that what time just described. So let me give you some perspective on what these databases are. These databases are essentially Markle, helping big brands 1400 Fortune 500 brands to organise their marketing ecosystem, especially Martek ecosystem. So these databases, they house customer touchpoints customer customer data from disparate sources, and they basically integrate that data in one central place and then bolt on analytics, data science, artificial intelligence, machine learning on top of it, helping them with those email campaigns or direct mail campaigns, social campaigns. So that's what these databases are all about, and and these databases currently set on Prem on Merkel's own data centre. And we have a huge opportunity to kind of take those databases and modernise them. Give all these ai ml type of capabilities advanced analytic capabilities to our customers by using AWS is the platform to kind of migrate. And you do that as a service. We do that as a service. >>Strategically, you're sort of transforming your business to help your customers transform their business right? Take away. It's it's classic. I mean, you really it's happening. This theme of, you know a W started with taking away the undifferentiated heavy lifting for infrastructure. Now you're seeing NASDAQ. Goldman Sachs. You guys in the media world essentially building your own clouds, right? That's the strategy. Yes, super clouds. We call >>them Super Cloud. Yeah, it's about helping our clients understand What is it they're trying to accomplish? And for the most part, they're trying to understand the customer journey where the customer is, how they're driving that experience with them and understanding that experience through the journey and doing that in the cloud makes it tremendously easier and more economical form. >>I was listening to the, uh, snowflake earnings call from last night and they were talking about, you know, a couple of big verticals, one being media and all. I keep talking about direct direct to consumer, right? You're hearing that a lot of media companies want to interact and build community directly. They don't want to necessarily. I mean, you don't want to go through a third party anymore if you don't have to, Technology is enabling that is that kind of the play here? >>Yes, Director Consumer is a huge player. Companies which were traditionally brick and mortar based or relied on a supply chain of dealers and distributors are now basically transforming themselves to be direct to consumer. They want to sell directly to the consumer. Personalisation comes becomes a big theme, especially indeed to see type of environment, because now those customers are expecting brands to know what's there like. What's their dislike? Which products which services are they interested in? So that's that's all kind of advanced analytics machine learning powered solutions. These are big data problems that all these brands are kind of trying to solve. That's where Merkel is partnering with AWS to bring all those technologies and and build those next generation solutions for access. So what kind >>of initiatives are you working >>on? So there are, like, 34 areas that we are working very closely with AWS number one. I would say Think about our marketers friend, you know, and they have a transformation like direct to consumer on the channel e commerce, these types of capabilities in mind. But they don't know where to start. What tools? What technologies will be part of that ecosystem. That's where Merkel provides consulting services to to give them a road map, give them recommendations on how to structure these big, large strategic initiatives. That's number one we are doing in partnership with AWS to reach out to our joint customers and help them transform those ecosystems. Number two as Tom mentioned migrations, helping chief data officers, chief technology officers, chief marketing officers modernise their environment by migrating them to cloud number three. Merkel has a solution called mercury, which is essentially all about customer identity. How do we identify a customer across multiple channels? We are Modernising all that solution of making that available on AWS marketplace for customers to actually easily use that solution. And number four, I would say, is helping them set up data foundation. That's through intelligent marketing Data Lake leveraging AWS technologies like blue, red shift and and actually modernise their data platforms. And number four is more around clean rooms, which is bring on your first party data. Join it with Amazon data to see how those customers are behaving when they are making a purchase on amazon dot com, which gives insights to these brands to reshape their marketing strategy to those customers. So those are like four or five focus areas. So I was >>gonna ask you about the data and the data strategy like, who owns the data? You're kind of alchemists that your clients have first party data and you might recommend bringing in other data sources. And you're sort of creating this new cocktail. Who owns the data? >>Well, ultimately, client also data because that that's their customers' data. Uh, to your point on, we helped them enrich that data by bringing in third party data, which is what we call is. So Merkel has a service called data source, which is essentially a collection of data that we acquire about customers. Their likes, their dislikes, their buying power, their interests so we monetise all that data. And the idea is to take those data assets and make them available on AWS data exchange so that it becomes very easy for brands to use their first party data. Take this third party data from Merkel and then, uh, segment their customers much more intelligently. >>And the CMO is your sort of ideal customer profile. >>Yeah, CMO is our main customer profile and we'll work with the chief data officer Will work with the chief technology officer. We kind of we bridge both sides. We can go technology and marketing and bring them both together. So you have a CMO who's trying to solve for some type of issue. And you have a chief technology officer who wants to improve their infrastructure. And we know how to bring them together into a conversation and help both parties get both get what they want. >>And I suppose the chief digital officer fits in there too. Yeah, he fits in their CDOs. Chief Digital officer CMO. Sometimes they're all they're one and the same. Other times they're mixed. I've seen see IOS and and CDOs together. Sure, you sort of. It's all data. It's all >>day. >>Yeah, some of the roles that come into play, as as Tom mentioned. And you mentioned C I o c T. O s chief information officer, chief technology officer, chief data officer, more from the side. And then we have the CMOS chief digital officers from the marketing side. So the secret sauce that Merkel brings to the table is that we know the language, what I t speaks and what business speaks. So when we talk about the business initiatives like direct to consumer Omni Channel E commerce, those are more business driven initiatives. That's where Merkel comes in to kind of help them with our expertise over the last 30 years on on how to run these strategic initiatives. And then at the same time, how do we translate translate those strategic initiatives into it transformation because it does require a lot of idea transformation to happen underneath. That's where AWS also helps us. So we kind of span across both sides of the horizon. >>So you got data. You've got tools, you've got software. You've got expertise that now you're making that available as a as a service. That's right. How far are you into that? journey of satisfying your business. >>Well, the cloud journey started almost, I would say, 5 to 7 years ago at Merkel, >>where you started, where you began leveraging the cloud. That's right. And then the light bulb went off >>the cloud again. We use clouds in multiple aspects, from general computing perspective, leveraging fully managed services that AWS offers. So that's one aspect, which is to bring in data from disparate sources, house it, analyse it and and derive intelligence. The second piece on the cloud side is, uh, SAS, offering software as a service offerings like Adobe Salesforce and other CDP platforms. So Merkel covers a huge spectrum. When it comes to cloud and you got >>a combination, you have a consulting business and also >>so Merkel has multiple service lines. Consulting business is one of them where we can help them on how to approach these transformational initiatives and give them blueprints and roadmaps and strategy. Then we can also help them understand what the customer strategy should be, so that they can market very intelligently to their end customers. Then we have a technology business, which is all about leveraging cloud and advanced analytics. Then we have data business that data assets that I was talking about, that we monetise. We have promotions and loyalty. We have media, so we recover multiple services portfolio. >>How do you mentioned analytics a couple times? How do you tie that? Back to the to the to the sales function. I would imagine your your clients are increasingly asking for analytics so they can manage their dashboards and and make sure they're above the line. How is that evolving? Yes, >>So that's a very important line because, you know, data is data, right? You bring in the data, but what you do with the data, how you know, how you ask questions and how you derive intelligence from it? Because that's the actionable part. So a few areas I'll give you one or two examples on how those analytics kind of come into picture. Let's imagine a brand which is trying to sell a particular product or a particular service to the to a set of customers Now who those set of customers are, You know where they should target this, who their target customers are, what the demographics are that's all done through and analytics and what I gave you is a very simple example. There are so many advanced examples, you know, that come into artificial intelligence machine learning those type of aspects as well. So analytics definitely play a huge role on how these brands need to sell and personalised the offerings that they're going to offer to. The customers >>used to be really pure art, right? It's really >>not anymore. It's all data driven. Moneyball. Moneyball? >>Yes, exactly. Exactly. Maybe still a little bit of hard in there, right? It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt to have a little creative flair still, but you've got to go with the data. >>That's where the expertise comes in, right? That's where the experience comes in and how you take that science and combine it with the art to present it to the end customer. That's exactly you know. It's a combination, >>and we also take the time to educate our clients on how we're doing it. So it's not done in a black box, so they can learn and grow themselves where they may end up developing their own group to handle it, as opposed to outsourcing with Merkel, >>teach them how to fish. Last question. Where do you see this in 2 to 3 years. Where do you want to take it? >>I think future is Cloud AWS being the market leader. I think aws has a huge role to play. Um, we are very excited to be partners with AWS. I think it's a match made in heaven. AWS cells in, uh, majority of the sales happen in our focus is marketing. I think if we can bring both the worlds together, I think that would be a very powerful story for us to be >>good news for AWS. They little your DNA can rub off on them would be good, guys. Thanks so much for coming to the Cube. Thank you. All right. Thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volonte for the Cube Day four aws re invent. Were the Cube the global leader in high tech coverage? Right back. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

>>what? Hello, I'm john free with the cube. I want to welcome Conrad Feldman, the founder and Ceo of Kwan cast here to kick off the quan cast industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. The events called the cookie conundrum, a recipe for success. The changing advertising landscape, super relevant conversation just now. More than ever. Conrad welcome to your own program kicking this off. Thanks for holding this event. It's a pleasure. Great to chat with you today. So a big fan been following your company since the founding of it. Been analytics is always the prize of any data driven company. Media. Anything's all data driven now. Um, talk about the open internet because now more than ever it's under siege. As I, as I mentioned in my open, um, we've been seeing the democratization, a new trend of decentralization. We're starting to see um, you know, everyone's present online now, Clay Shirky wrote a book called, here comes everyone in 2005. Well everyone's here. Right? So you know, we're here, it's gonna be more open. But yet people are looking at as close right now. You're seeing the big players, um, or in the data. What's your vision of this open internet? >>Well, an open internet exists for everyone. And if you think about the evolution of the internet, when the internet was created for the first time really in history, anyone that had access to the internet could publish the content, whatever they were interested in and could find an audience. And of course that's grown to where we are today, where five billion people around the world are able to engage in all sorts of content, whether that's entertainment or education, news, movies. What's perhaps not so widely understood is that most of that content is paid for by advertising and there's a lot of systems that support advertising on the open Internet and some of those are under siege today certainly. >>And what's the big pressure point? Is it just more control the data? Is it just that these walled gardens are wanting to, you know, suck the audience in there? Is that monetization driving it? What's where's the friction? >>Well, the challenges is sort of the accumulation of power into a really small number of now giant corporations who have actually reduced a lot of the friction that marketers have in spending their money effectively. And it means that those companies are capturing a disproportionate spend of the ad budgets that fund digital content. So the problem is if more of the money goes to them, less of its going to independent content creators. It's actually getting harder for independent voices to emerge and be heard. And so that's the real challenges. That has more power consolidates into just a limited number of tech giants. The funding path for the open Internet becomes constrained and there'll be less choice for consumers without having to pay for subscriptions. >>Everyone knows the more data you have the better and certainly, but the centralized power when the trend is going the other way, the consensus is everyone wants to be decentralized more truth, more trust all this is being talked about on the heels of the google's news around, you know, getting rid of third party cookies and others have followed suit. Um, what does this mean? I mean, this cookies have been the major vehicle for tracking and getting that kind of data. What is gonna be replaced with what is this all about? And can you share with us what the future will look like? >>Sure, Well, just as advertising funds the open Internet is advertising technology that supports that advertising spend. It supports sort of the business of advertising that funds the open Internet. And within all of that technology is the need for different systems to be able to align around um the identification of for example, a consumer, Have they been to this site before? Have they seen an ad before? So there's all of these different systems that might be used for advertising for measurement, for attribution, for creating personalization. And historically they've relied upon the third party cookie as the mechanism for synchronization. Well, the third party cookie has been in decline for some time. It's already mostly gone from actually apple safari browser, but google's chrome has so much control over how people access the internet. And so it was when Google announced that chrome was going to deprecate the third party cookie, that it really sort of focus the minds of the industry in terms of finding alternative ways to tailor content and ultimately to just simply measure the effectiveness of advertising. And so there's an enormous amount of um innovation taking place right now to find alternative solutions. >>You know, some are saying that the free open internet was pretty much killed when, you know, the big comes like facebook and google started bringing all this data and kind of pulls all sucks all the auction in the room, so to speak. What's this mean with cookies now getting, getting rid of um, by google has an impact publishers because is it helpful? I mean hurtful. I mean, where's the where is that, what the publisher impact? >>Well, I don't think anyone really knows right now. So first of all, cookies weren't necessarily a very good solution to the sort of the challenge of maintaining state and understanding those sorts of the delivery of advertising and so on. It's just the one that's commonly used, I think for different publishers it may mean different things. But many publishers need to be able to demonstrate the value and the effectiveness of the advertising solutions that they deliver. So they'll be innovating in terms of how they use their first party data. They'll be continuing to use contextual solutions that have long been used to create advertising relevant, relevant. I think the big question of course is how we're going to measure it that any of this is effective at all because everyone relies upon measuring advertising effectiveness to justify capturing those budgets in the first place. >>You know, you mentioned contextual come up a lot also in the other interviews we've done with the folks in the around the internet around this topic of machine learning is a big 12 What is the impact of this with the modernization of the solution? You mentioned cookies? Okay cookies, old technology. But the mechanisms in this ecosystem around it or not, it funds the open internet. What is that modern solution that goes that next level? Is it contextual metadata? Is that shared systems? What's the it's the modernization of that. >>It's all of those and and more. There's no there's no single solution to replace the third party cookie. There'll be a combination of solutions. Part of that will be alternative identity mechanisms. So you know, you will start to see more registration wars to access content so that you have what's called a deterministic identify there will be statistical models so called probabilistic models, contextual has always been important. It will become more important and it will be combined with we use contextual combining natural language processing with machine learning models to really understand the detailed context of different pages across the internet. You'll also see the use of first party data and there are discussions about shared data services as well. I think there's gonna be a whole set of different innovations that will need to inter operate and it's going to be an evolutionary process as people get used to using these different systems to satisfy the different stages of the media fulfillment cycle from research and planning to activation to measurement. >>You know, you put up walled gardens. I want to just touch on the on on this kind of concept of walled gardens and and and and compare and contrast that with the demand for community, open internet has always fostered a community vibe. You see network effects mostly in distinct user communities or subnets of sub networks. If you will kind of walled gardens became that kind of group get together but then became more of a media solution to make the user is the product, as they say, facebook's a great example, right? People talk about facebook and from that misinformation abuse walled garden is not the best thing happening right now in the world, but yet is there any other other choice? That's how they're going to make money? But yet everyone wants trust, truth community. Are they usually exclusive? How do you see this evolving, what's your take? >>Well, I think the open internet is a, is a forum where anyone can have their voice, uh, put their voice out there and have it discovered and it's in that regard, it's a it's a force for good look. I think there are there are challenges, obviously in terms of some of the some of the optimization that takes place with inside the walled gardens, which is, is sort of optimized to drive engagement can have some unintended consequences. Um obviously that's something that's, that's broadly being discussed today and the impact on society, but sort of more at a more pointed level, it's just the absorption of advertising dollars. There's a finite amount of money from advertisers. It's estimated to be $400 billion this year in digital advertising. So it's a huge amount of money in terms of funding the open Internet, which sounds great except for its increasingly concentrated in a tiny number of companies. And so, you know, our job at Quan cast as champions of the free and open Internet is to help direct money effectively to publishers across the open internet and give advertisers a reliable, repeatable way of accessing the audiences that they care about in the environment they care about and delivering advertising results. >>It's a publisher, we care a lot about what our audience wants and try to serve them and listen to them. If we could get the data, we want that data and then also broker in the monetization with advertisers, who might want to reach that audience in whatever way. So this brings up the question of, you know, automation and role of data. You know, this is a huge thing to having that data closed loop, if you will for for publishers. But yet most publishers are small, some niche. And even as they can become super large, they don't have all the data and more, the more data, the better the machine learning. So what's the answer to this as it goes forward? How do we get there? What's the dots that that we need to connect to get that future state? >>So I think it takes it takes companies working together effectively. I think a really important part of it is, is a more direct conversation with consumers. We've seen that change beginning to happen over the past few years with the introduction of regulations that require clear communication to consumers about the data that's captured. And y and I think that creates an opportunity to explain to your audience is the way in which content is funded. So I think that consumer that consumer conversation will be part of the collective solution. >>You know, I want to as we wind down this kickoff segment, get your thoughts and vision around um, the evolution of the internet and you guys have done some great work at quan Cast is well documented, but everyone used to talk about traffic by traffic, then it became cost of acquisitions. PPC search. This is either mechanisms that people have been using for a long, long time, then you know, your connections but audience is about traffic, audience traffic. If this if my family is online, doesn't it become about networks and the people. So I want to get your thoughts and your vision because if community is going to be more important than people agree that it is and things are gonna be decentralized, more openness, more voices to be heard. You need to dress ability. The formation of networks and groups become super important. What's your vision on that? >>So my vision is to create relevance and utility for consumers. I think that's one of the things that's often forgotten is that when we make advertising more relevant and useful for consumers, it automatically fulfils the objectives that publishers and marketers have, everyone wins when advertising is more relevant. And our vision is to make advertising relevant across the entire open internet so that that ad supported model can continue to flourish and that five billion and hopefully many more billions in the future, people around the world have access to high quality, diverse content. >>If someone asked you Conrad, what is quant cast doing to make the open internet viable now that cookies are going away? What's the answer? >>So well, the cookie pieces is a central piece of it in terms of finding solutions that will enable sort of planning activation and measurement post cookies and we have a lot of innovation going on. There were also working with a range of industry bodies and our and our partners to build solutions for this. What we're really trying to do is to make buying the open internet as straightforward for marketers as it is today and buying the walled gardens. The reason the walled gardens capture so much money is they made it really easy for marketers to get results, marketers would like to be able to spend their money across all of the diverse publishes the open internet. You know, our job at Comcast is to make it just as easy to effectively spend money in funding the content that they really care about in reaching the audiences that they want. >>Great stuff. Great Mission. Conrad, thanks for coming on. Conrad Feldmann founder and Ceo here at the cookie conundrum recipe for success event, Quant Cast Industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. Thank you. Conrad appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I'm john ferrier, stay with us for more on the industry event around the middle cookies. Mhm Yeah, yeah, thank you. Mhm. Welcome back to the Qantas industry summit on the demise of third party cookies, the cookie conundrum, a recipe for success. I'm john furrier host of the cube, the changing landscape of advertising is here and shit Gupta, founder of you of digital is joining us chief. Thanks for coming on this segment. Really appreciate, I know you're busy, you've got two young kids as well as providing education to the digital industry, you got some kids to take care of and train them to. So welcome to the cube conversation here as part of the program. >>Yeah, thanks for having me excited to be here. >>So the office of the changing landscape of advertising really centers around the open to walled garden mindset of the web and the big power players. We know the big 34 tech players dominate the marketplace so clearly in a major inflection point and we've seen this movie before Web mobile revolution which was basically a reply platform NG of capabilities. But now we're in an error of re factoring the industry, not re platt forming a complete changing over of the value proposition. So a lot at stake here as this open web, open internet, global internet evolves. What are your, what's your take on this, this industry proposals out there that are talking to this specific cookie issue? What does it mean? And what proposals are out there? >>Yeah, so, you know, I I really view the identity proposals and kind of to to kind of groups, two separate groups. So on one side you have what the walled gardens are doing and really that's being led by google. Right, so google um you know, introduce something called the privacy sandbox when they announced that they would be deprecating third party cookies uh as part of the privacy sandbox, they've had a number of proposals unfortunately, or you know, however you want to say they're all bird themed for some reason, I don't know why. Um but the one, the bird theme proposal that they've chosen to move forward with is called flock, which stands for Federated learning of cohorts. And essentially what it all boils down to is google is moving forward with cohort level learning and understanding of users in the future after third party cookies, unlike what we've been accustomed to in this space, which is a user level understanding of people and what they're doing online for targeting tracking purposes. And so that's on one side of the equation, it's what google is doing with flock and privacy sandbox now on the other side is, you know, things like unified I. D. Two point or the work that I. D five is doing around building new identity frameworks for the entire space that actually can still get down to the user level. Right? And so again, unified I. D. Two point oh comes to mind because it's the one that's probably got the most adoption in the space. It's an open source framework. So the idea is that it's free and pretty much publicly available to anybody that wants to use it and unified, I need to point out again is user level. So it's it's basically taking data that's authenticated data from users across various websites you know that are logging in and taking those authenticated users to create some kind of identity map. And so if you think about those two work streams right, you've got the walled gardens and or you know, google with flock on one side and then you've got unified I. D. Two point oh and other I. D. Frameworks for the open internet. On the other side, you've got these two very differing type of approaches to identity in the future. Again on the google side it's cohort level, it's going to be built into chrome. Um The idea is that you can pretty much do a lot of the things that we do with advertising today, but now you're just doing it at a group level so that you're protecting privacy, whereas on the other side of the open internet you're still getting down to the user level. Um And that's pretty powerful. But the the issue there is scale, right? We know that a lot of people are not logged in on lots of websites. I think the stat that I saw is under five of all website traffic is authenticated. So really if you if you simplify things you boil it all down, you have kind of these two very differing approaches. >>I guess the question it really comes down to what alternatives are out there for cookies and which ones do you think will be more successful? Because I think, you know, the consensus is at least from my reporting, in my view, is that the world agrees. Let's make it open, Which one is going to be better. >>Yeah, that's a great question, john So as I mentioned, right, we have we have to kind of work streams here, we've got the walled garden work streams, work stream being led by google and their work around flock, and then we've got the open internet, right? Let's say unified I. D to kind of represents that. I personally don't believe that there is a right answer or an endgame here. I don't think that one of them wins over the other, frankly, I think that, you know, first of all, you have those two frameworks, neither of them are perfect, they're both flawed in their own ways. There are pros and cons to both of them. And so what we're starting to see now is you have other companies kind of coming in and building on top of both of them as kind of a hybrid solution. Right? So they're saying, hey, we use, you know, an open I. D. Framework in this way to get down to the user level and use that authenticated data and that's important. But we don't have all the scale. So now we go to google and we go to flock to kind of fill the scale. Oh and hey, by the way, we have some of our own special sauce, right? We have some of our own data, we have some of our own partnerships, we're gonna bring that in and layer it on top. Right? And so really where I think things are headed is the right answer, frankly, is not one or the other. It's a little mishmash of both. With a little extra something on top. I think that's that's what we're starting to see out of a lot of companies in the space. And I think that's frankly where we're headed. >>What do you think the industry will evolve to, in your opinion? Because I think this is gonna, you can't ignore the big guys on this because these programmatic you mentioned also the data is there. But what do you think the market will evolve to with this, with this conundrum? >>So, so I think john where we're headed? You know, I think we're right now we're having this existential existential crisis, right? About identity in this industry, because our world is being turned upside down, all the mechanisms that we've used for years and years are being thrown out the window and we're being told they were gonna have new mechanisms, Right? So cookies are going away device ids are going away and now we got to come up with new things and so the world is being turned upside down and everything that you read about in the trades and you know, we're here talking about it, right? Like everyone's always talking about identity right now, where do I think this is going if I was to look into my crystal ball, you know, this is how I would kind of play this out. If you think about identity today. Right? Forget about all the changes. Just think about it now and maybe a few years before today, Identity for marketers in my opinion has been a little bit of a checkbox activity. Right? It's been hey, um, okay, uh, you know ad tech company or a media company, do you have an identity solution? Okay. Tell me a little bit more about it. Okay, Sounds good. That sounds good. Now can we move on and talk about my business and how are you going to drive meaningful outcomes or whatever for my business? And I believe the reason that is, is because identity is a little abstract, right? It's not something that you can actually get meaningful validation against. It's just something that, you know. Yes, You have it. Okay, great. Let's move on, type of thing. Right. And so that, that's, that's kind of where we've been now, all of a sudden The cookies are going away, the device ids are going away. And so the world is turning upside down in this crisis of how are we going to keep doing what we were doing for the last 10 years in the future. So everyone's talking about it and we're trying to re engineer right? The mechanisms now if I was to look into the crystal ball right 2 3 years from now where I think we're headed is not much is going to change. And what I mean by that john is um uh I think that marketers will still go to companies and say do you have an ID solution? Okay tell me more about it. Okay uh Let me understand a little bit better. Okay you do it this way. Sounds good. Now the ways in which companies are going to do it will be different right now. It's flock and unified I. D. And this and that right. The ways the mechanisms will be a little bit different but the end state right? Like the actual way in which we operate as an industry and kind of like the view of the landscape in my opinion will be very simple or very similar, right? Because marketers will still view it as a tell me you have an ID solution. Make me feel good about it. Help me check the box and let's move on and talk about my business and how you're going to solve for my needs. So I think that's where we're going. That is not by any means to discount this existential moment that we're in. This is a really important moment where we do have to talk about and figure out what we're going to do in the future. My just my viewpoint is that the future will actually not look all that different than the present. >>And I'll say the user base is the audience. Their their data behind it helps create new experiences, machine learning and Ai are going to create those and we have the data you have the sharing it or using it as we're finding shit Gupta great insight dropping some nice gems here. Founder of you of Digital and also the Adjunct professor of Programmatic advertising at Levi School of Business and santa Clara University professor. Thank you for coming dropping the gems here and insight. Thank you. >>Thanks a lot for having me john really appreciate >>it. Thanks for watching. The cooking 100 is the cube host Jon ferrier me. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. Hello welcome back to the cookie conundrum recipe for success and industry conference and summit from Guanacaste on the demise of third party cookies. Got a great industry panel here to break it down chris Gunther Senior Vice president Global Head of programmatic at news corp chris thanks for coming on Zal in Managing Director Solutions at Z axis and Summer Simpson. Vice president Product at quan cast stellar panel. Looking forward to this conversation. Uh thanks for coming on and chatting about the cookie conundrum. Thank you for having us. So chris we'll start with you at news corp obviously a major publisher deprecation of third party cookies affects everyone. You guys have a ton of traffic, ton of audience across multiple formats. Um, tell us about the impact to you guys and the reliance he has had on them. And what are you gonna do to prepare for this next level change? >>Sure. I mean, I think like everyone in this industry there's uh a significant reliance and I think it's something that a lot of talk about audience targeting but obviously that reliance on third party cookies pervasive across the whole at tech ecosystem Martek stack. And so you know, we have to think about how that impact vendor vendors, we work with what it means in terms of use cases across marketing, across advertising, across site experience. So, you know, without a doubt, it it's it's significant, but you know, we look at it as listen, it's disruptive, uh, disruption and change is always a little scary. Um, but overall it's a, it's a long overdue reset. I mean, I think that, you know, our perspective is that the cookies, as we all know was it was a crutch, right sort of a technology being used in way it shouldn't. Um, and so as we look at what's going to happen presumably after Jan 2022 then it's, it's a good way to kind of fix on some bad practices practices that lead to data leakage, um, practice or devalue for our perspective, some of the, you know, we offered as as publishers and I think that this is a key thing is that we're not just looking to as we look at the post gender world, not just kind of recreating the prior world because the prior world was flawed or I guess you could say the current world since it hasn't changed yet. But the current world is flawed. Let's not just not, you know, let's not just replicate that. Let's make sure that, you know, third party cookie goes away. Other work around like fingerprinting and things like that. You know, also go away so philosophically, that's where our heads at. And so as we look at how we are preparing, you know, you look at what are the core building blocks of preparing for this world. Obviously one of the key ones is privacy compliance. Like how do we treat our users with consent? Yeah, obviously. Are we um aligned with the regulatory environments? Yeah. In some ways we're not looking just a Jan 2022, but Jan 23 where there's gonna be the majority of our audiences we covered by regulation. And so I think from regulation up to data gathering to data activation, all built around an internal identifier that we've developed that allows us to have a consistent look at our users whether they're logged in or obviously anonymous. So it's really looking across all those components across all our sites and in all in a privacy compliant way. So a lot of work to be done, a lot of work in progress. But we're >>excited about what's going on. I like how you framed at Old world or next gen kind of the current situation kind of flawed. And as you think about programmatic, the concept is mind blowing and what needs to be done. So we'll come back to that because I think that original content view is certainly relevant, a huge investment and you've got great content and audience consuming it from a major media standpoint. Get your perspective on the impact because you've got clients who want to get their their message out in front of the audience at the right time, at the right place and the right context. Right, So your privacy, you got consent, all these things kind of boiling up. How do you help clients prepare? Because now they can go direct to the consumer. Everyone, everyone has a megaphone, now, everyone's, everyone's here, everyone's connected. So how are you impacted by this new notion? >>You know, if if the cookie list future was a tic tac, dance will be dancing right now, and at least into the next year, um this has been top of mind for us and our clients for quite some time, but I think as each day passes, the picture becomes clearer and more in focus. Uh the end of the third party cookie does not mean the end of programmatic. Um so clients work with us in transforming their investments into real business outcomes based on our expertise and based on our tech. So we continue to be in a great position to lead to educate, to partner and to grow with them. Um, along this uh cookie list future, the impact will be all encompassing in changing the ways we do things now and also accelerating the things that we've already been building on. So we take it from the top planning will have a huge impact because it's gonna start becoming more strategic around real business outcomes. Uh where Omni channel, So clients want to drive outcomes, drew multiple touch points of a consumer's journey, whether it has programmatic, whether it has uh cookie free environment, like connected tv, digital home audio, gaming and so forth. So we're going to see more of these strategic holistic plans. Creative will have a lot of impact. It will start becoming more important with creative testing. Creative insights. You know, creative in itself is cookie list. So there will be more focused on how to drive uh brand dialogue to connect to consumers with less targeting. With less cookies, with the cohesiveness of holistic planning. Creative can align through multiple channels and lastly, the role of a. I will become increasingly important. You know, we've always looked to build our tech our products to complement new and existing technology as well as the client's own data and text back to deliver these outcomes for them. And ai in its core it's just taking input data uh and having an output of your desired outcome. So input data could be dSP data beyond cookies such as browser such as location, such as contextual or publisher taking clients first party data, first party crm data like store visitation, sales, site activity. Um and using that to optimize in real time regardless of what vendor or what channel we're on. Um So as we're learning more about this cookie list dance, we're helping our clients on the steps of it and also introducing our own moves. >>That's awesome. Data is going to be a key value proposition, connecting in with content real time. Great stuff. Somewhere with your background in journalism and you're the tech VP of product at quan cast. You have the keys to the kingdom over there. It's interesting Journalism is about truth and good content original content. But now you have a data challenge problem opportunity on both sides, brands and publishers coming together. It's a data problem in a way it's a it's a tech stack, not so much just getting the right as to show up at the right place the right time. It's really bigger than that now. What's your take on this? >>Um you know, >>so first >>I think that consumers already sort of like except that there is a reasonable value exchange for their data in order to access free content. Right? And that's that's a critical piece for us to all kind of like understand over the past. Hi guys, probably two years since even even before the G. D. P. R. We've been doing a ton of discovery with customers, both publishers and marketers. Um and so you know, we've kind of known this, this cookie going away thing has been coming. Um And you know, Google's announcement just kind of confirmed it and it's been, it's been really, really interesting since Google's announcement, how the conversations have changed with with our customers and other folks that we talked to. And I've almost gone from being like a product manager to a therapist because there's such an emotional response. Um you know, from the marketing perspective, there's real fear there. There's like, oh my God, how you know, it's not just about, you know, delivering ads, it's about how do I control frequency? How do I, how do I measure, you know, success? Because the technology has has grown so much over the years to really give marketers the ability to deliver personalized advertising, good content, right. The consumers um and be able to monitor it and control it so that it's not too too intrusive on the publisher perspective side, we see slightly different response. It's more of a yes, right. You know, we're taking back control and we're going to stop the data leakage, we're going to get the value back for our inventory. Um and that both things are a good thing, but if it's, if it's not managed, it's going to be like ships passing in the night, right? In terms of um of, you know, they're there, them coming together, right, and that's the critical pieces that they have to come together. They have to get closer, you got to cut out a lot of that loom escape in the middle so that they can talk to each other and understand what's the value exchange happening between marketers and publishers and how do we do that without cookies? >>It's a fascinating, I love love your insight there. I think it's so relevant and it's got broader implications because, you know, if you look at how data's impact, some of these big structural changes and re factoring of industries, look at cyber security, you know, no one wants to share their data, but now if they share they get more insight, more machine learning, benefit more ai benefit. So now we have the sharing notion, but that goes against counter the big guys that want to wall garden, they want to hoard all the data and and control that to provide their own personalization. So you have this confluence of, hey, I want to hoard the data and then now I want to share the data. So so christmas summer you're in the, in the wheelhouse, you got original content and there's other providers out there. So is there the sharing model coming with privacy and these kinds of services? Is the open, come back again? How do you guys see this uh confluence of open versus walled gardens, because you need the data to make machine learning good. >>So I'll start uh start off, I mean, listen, I think you have to give credit to the walled gardens have created, I think as we look as publishers, what are we offering to our clients, what are we offering to the buy side? We need to be compelling. We shouldn't just be uh yeah, actually as journalists, I think that there is a case of the importance of funding journalism. Um but ultimately we need to make sure we're meeting the KPI is and the business needs of the buy side. And I think around that it is the sort of three core pillars that its ease of access, its scope of of activation and targeting and finally measurable results. So as I think is us as an individual publishers, so we have, we have multiple publications. So we do have scale. But then in partnership with other publishers perhaps to organizations like pre bid, you know, I think we can, you know, we're trying to address that and I think we can offer something that's compelling um, and transparent in terms of what these results are. But obviously, you know, I want to make sure it's clear transparent terms of results, but obviously where there's privacy in terms of the data and I think the form, you know, I think we've all heard a lot like data clean rooms, a lot of them out there flogging those wears. I think there's something valuable but you know, I think it's the right who is sort of the right partner or partners um and ultimately who allows us to get as close as possible to the buy side. And so that we can share that data for targeting, share it for perhaps for measurement, but obviously all in a privacy compliant >>way summer, what's your take on this? Because you talk about the future of the open internet democratization, the network effect that we're seeing in Vire al Itty and across multiple on the on the channels. Is that pointed out what's happening? That's the distribution now. So um that's almost an open garden model. So it's like um yeah, >>yeah, it's it's um you know, back in the day, you know, um knight ridder who was who was the first group that I that I worked for, um you know, each of those individual properties, um we're not hugely valuable on their own from a digital perspective, but together as a unit, they became valuable, right, and got scale for advertisers. Now we're in a place where, you know, I kind of think that each of those big networks are going to have to come together and work together to compare in size to the, to the world gardens. Um, and yeah, this is something that we've talked about before and an open garden. Um, I think that's the, that's the definitely the right route to take. And I and I agree with chris it's, it's about publishers getting as close to the market. Is it possible working with the tech companies that enable them to do that and doing so in a very privacy centric >>way. So how do we bring the brands and agencies together to get ready for third party cookies? Because there is a therapist moment here of it's gonna be okay. The parachute will open. The future is not gonna be as as grim. Um, it's a real opportunity. But if managed properly, what's your take on this is just more first party data strategy and what's your assessment of this? >>So we collaborated right now with ball grants on how did this still very complex cookie list future. Um, you know what's going to happen in the future? 2, 6 steps that we can take right now and market should take. Um, The first step is to gather intel on what's working on your current campaign, analyzing the data sets across cookie free environment. So you can translate those tactics eventually when the cookies do go away. So we have to look at things like temperature or time analysis. We could look at log level data. We could look at site analytics data. We can look at brand measurement tools and how creative really impacts the campaign success. The second thing we can look at is geo targeting strategies. The geo target strategy has been uh underrated because the granularity and geo data could go down all the way to the local level, even beyond zip code. So for example the census black data and this is especially important for CPG brands. So we're working closely with the client teams to understand not only the online data but the offline data and how we can utilize that in the future. Uh We want to optimize investments around uh markets that are working so strong markets and then test and underperforming markets. The third thing we can look at is contextual. So contextual by itself is cookie free. Uh We could build on small scale usage to test and learn various keywords and content categories based sets. Working closely with partners to find ways to leverage their data to mimic audiences that you are trying to target right now with cookies. Um the 4th 1 is publisher data or publisher targeting. So working with your publishers that you have strong relationships with who can curate similar audiences using their own first party data and conducting RFs to understand the scale and reach against your audience and their future role maps. So work with your top publishers based on historical data to try to recreate your best strategies. The 15 and I think this is very important is first party data, you know, that's going to matter more than ever. In the calculus future brands will need to think about how to access and developed the first party data starting with the consumers seeing a value in exchange for the information. It's a gold mine and understanding of consumer, their intent, the journey um and you need a really great data science team to extract insights out of that data, which will be crucial. So partner with strategic onboarding vendors and vet their ability to accept first party data into a cleaner environment for targeting for modeling for insight. And lastly, the six thing that we can do is begin to inform prospect prospecting by dedicating test budget to start gaining learnings about cookie list 11 place that we can start and it is under invested right now is Safari and Firefox. They have been calculus for quite some time so you can start here and begin testing here. Uh work with your data scientist team to understand the right mix is to to target and start exploring other channels outside of um just programmatic cookies like CTV digital, out of home radio gaming and so forth. So those are the six steps that we're taking right now with our clients to uh prepare and plan for the cookie list future. >>So chris let's go back to you. What's the solution here? Is there one, is there multiple solutions? What's the future look like for a cookie was future? >>Uh I think the one certain answers, they're definitely not just one solution. Um as we all know right now there there seems to be endless solutions, a lot of ideas out there, proposals with the W three C uh work happening within other industry bodies uh you know private companies solutions being offered and you know, it's a little bit of it's enough to make everyone's head spin and to try to track it to understand and understand the impact. And as a publisher were obviously a lot of people are knocking on our door. Uh they're saying, hey our solution is one that is going to bring in lots of money, you know, the all the buy side is going to use it. This is the one like I ma call to spend um, and so expect here and so far is that none of these solutions are I think everyone is still testing and learning no one on the buy side from our, from our knowledge is really committed to one or a few. It's all about a testing stage. I think that, you know, putting aside all that noise, I think what matters the most to us as publisher is actually something summer mentioned before. It's about control. You know, if we're going to work with a again, outside of our sort of, you know, internal identifier work that we're doing is we're going to work with an outside party or outside approach doesn't give us control as a publisher to ensure that it is, we control the data from our users. There isn't that data leakage, it's probably compliant. What information gets shared out there. What is it, what's released within within the bid stream? Uh If it is something that's attached to a somewhat declared user registered user that if that then is not somehow amplified or leverage off on another site in a way that is leveraging bit stream data or fingerprinting and going against. I think that the spirit of what we're trying to do in a post third party cookie world so that those controls are critical and I think they have those controls, his publisher, we have collectively be disciplined in what solutions that we we test out and what we eventually adopt. But even when the adoption point arrives, uh definitely it will not be one. There will be multiple because it's just too many use cases to address >>great, great insight there from, from you guys, news corp summer. Let's get back to you. I want to get your thoughts. You've been in many waves of innovation ups and downs were on a new one. Now we talked about the open internet democratization. Journalism is under a lot of pressure now, but there's now a wave of quality people really leaning in towards fighting misinformation, understanding truth and community and date is at the heart of it. What do you see as the new future for journalists, reward journalism is our ways their path forward. >>So there's uh, there's what I hope is going to happen. Um, and then I'm just gonna ignore what could write. Um, you know, there's there's a trend in market right now, a number of fronts, right? So there are marketers who are leaning into wanting to spend their marketing dollars with quality journalists, focusing on bipac owned and operated, really leaning into into supporting those businesses that have been uh, those publishers that have been ignored for years. I really hope that this trend continues. Um We are leaning into into helping um, marketers curate that supply right? And really, uh, you know, speak with their dollars about the things that that they support. Um, and uh, and and value right in market. So I'm hoping that that trend continues and it's not just sort of like a marketing blip. Um, but we will do everything possible to kind of like encourage that behavior and and give people the information they need to find, you know, truly high quality journalism. >>That's awesome chris Summer. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insight on this panel on the cookie list future. Before we go, just quick summary each of you. If you don't mind just giving a quick sound bite or bumper sticker of what we can expect. If you had to throw a prediction For what's going to happen in the next 24 months Chris We'll start with you. >>Uh it's gonna be quite a ride. I think that's an understatement. Um I think that there, I wouldn't be surprised if if google delays the change to the chrome by a couple of months and and may give the industry some much needed time, but no one knows. I guess. I guess I'm not except for someone somewhere deep within chrome. So I think we all have to operate in a way that changes to happen, changes to happen quickly and it's gonna cover across all facets of the industry, all facets of from advertising, marketing. So just be >>prepared. >>Yeah, along the same lines, be prepared, nobody knows what's going to happen in the future. Uh You know, while dancing in this together. Uh I think um for us it's um planning and preparing and also building on what we've already been working on. Um So omni channel ai um creative and I think clients will uh lean more into those different channels, >>awesome. So we'll pick us home, last word. >>I think we're in the throwing spaghetti against the wall stage. Right, so this is a time of discovery of leaning in trying everything out, Learning and iterating as fast as we possibly >>can. Awesome. And I love the cat in the background over your shoulder. Can't stop staring at your wonderful cat. Thanks for coming on chris, Thanks for coming on. This awesome panel industry breakdown of the cookie conundrum. The recipe for success data ai open. Uh The future is here, it's coming, it's coming fast. I'm john fryer with the cube. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Welcome back to the Quant Cast industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. The cookie conundrum, a recipe for success. We're here peter day. The cto of quad cast and crew T cop car, head of product marketing quad cast. Thanks for coming on talking about the changing advertising landscape. >>Thanks for having us. Thank you for having >>us. So we've been hearing this story out to the big players. Want to keep the data, make that centralized control, all the leverage and then you've got the other end. You got the open internet that still wants to be free and valuable for everyone. Uh what's what are you guys doing to solve this problem? Because cookies go away? What's going to happen there? How do people track things you guys are in this business first question? What is quan cast strategies to adapt to third party cookies going away? What's gonna be, what's gonna be the answer? >>Yeah. So uh very rightly said, john the mission, the Qantas mission is the champion of free and open internet. Uh And with that in mind, our approach to this world without third party cookies is really grounded in three fundamental things. Uh First as industry standards, we think it's really important to participate and to work with organizations who are defining the standards that will guide the future of advertising. So with that in mind, we've been participating >>with I. A. B. >>Tech lab, we've been part of their project Triarc. Uh same thing with pre bid, who's kind of trying to figure out the pipes of identity. Di di di di di pipes of uh of the future. Um And then also is W three C, which is the World Wide Web Consortium. Um And our engineers and our engineering team are participating in their weekly meetings trying to figure out what's happening with the browsers and keeping up with the progress they're on things such as google's block. Um The second uh sort of thing is interoperability, as you've mentioned, there are lots of different uh I. D. Solutions that are emerging. You have you I. D. Two point oh, you have live RAM, you have google's flock. Uh And there will be more, there are more and they will continue to be more. Uh We really think it is important to build a platform that can ingest all of these signals. And so that's what we've done. Uh The reason really is to meet our customers where they are at today. Our customers use multiple different data management platforms, the mps. Um and that's why we support multiple of those. Um This is not going to be much different than that. We have to meet our customers where we are, where they are at. And then finally, of course, which is at the very heart of who contrast is innovation. Uh As you can imagine being able to take all of these multiple signals in including the I. D. S. And the cohorts, but also others like contextual first party um consent is becoming more and more important. Um And then there are many other signals, like time, language geo location. So all of these signals can help us understand user behavior intent and interests um in absence of 3rd party cookies. However, uh there's there's something to note about this. They're very raw, their complex, they're messy all of these different signals. Um They are changing all the time, they're real time. Um And there's incomplete information isolation. Just one of these signals cannot help you build a true and complete picture. So what you really need is a technology like AI and machine learning to really bring all of these signals together, combine them statistically and get an understanding of user behavior intent and interests and then act on it, be it in terms of providing audience insights um or responding to bid requests and and so on and so forth. So those are sort of the three um fundamentals that our approach is grounded in which is industry standards, interoperability and and innovation. Uh and you know, you have peter here, who is who is the expert So you can dive much deeper into >>it. Is T. T. O. You've got to tell us how is this going to actually work? What are you guys doing from a technology standpoint to help with data driven advertising in a third party cookie list world? >>Well, we've been um This is not a shock, you know, I think anyone who's been close to his space has known that the 3rd Party Cookie has been um uh reducing inequality in terms of its pervasiveness and its longevity for many years now. And the kind of death knell is really google chrome making a, making the changes that they're gonna be making. So we've been investing in the space for many years. Um and we've had to make a number of hugely diverse investment. So one of them is in how as a marketer, how do I tell if my marketing still working in the world without >>computers? The >>majority of marketers completely reliant on third party cookies today to tell them if they're if they're marketing is working or not. And so we've had to invest heavily and statistical techniques which are closer to kind of economic trick models that markets are used to things like out of home advertising, It's going to establishing whether they're advertising is working or not in a digital environment actually, >>just as >>often, you know, as is often the case in these kind of times of massive disruption, there's always opportunity to make things better. And we really think that's true. And you know, digital measurement has often mistaken precision for accuracy. And there's a real opportunity to kind of see the wood for the trees if you like. And start to come with better methods of measuring the affections of advertising without third party cookies. And in fact to make countless other investments in areas like contextual modeling and and targeting that third party cookies and and uh, connecting directly to publishers rather than going through this kind of bloom escape that's gonna tied together third party cookies. So if I was to enumerate all the investments we've made, I think we'll be here till midnight but we have to make a number of vestments over a number of years and that level investments only increasing at the moment. >>Peter on that contextual. Can you just double click on that and tell us more? >>Yeah, I mean contextual is unfortunately these things, this is really poorly defined. It can mean everything from a publisher saying, hey, trust us, this dissipated about CVS to what's possible now and has only really been possible the last couple of years, which is to build >>statistical >>models of the entire internet based on the content that people are actually consumed. And this type of technology requires massive data processing capabilities. It's able to take advantage of the latest innovations in there is like natural language processing and really gives um computers are kind of much deeper and richer understanding of the internet, which ultimately makes it possible to kind of organize, organized the Internet in terms of the types of content of pages. So this type of technology has only been possible the last two years and we've been using contextual signals since our inception, it's always been massively predictive in terms of audience behaviours, in terms of where advertising is likely to work. And so we've been very fortunate to keep the investment going um and take advantage of many of these innovations that have happened in academia and in kind of uh in adjacent areas >>on the ai machine learning aspect, that seems to be a great differentiator in this day and age for getting the most out of the data. How is machine learning and ai factoring into your platform? >>I think it's, it's how we've always operated right from our interception when we started as a measurement company, the way that we were giving our customers at the time, we were just publishers, just the publisher side of our business insights into who their audience was, were, was using machine learning techniques. And that's never really changed. The foundation of our platform has always been, has always been machine learning from from before. It was cool. A lot of our kind of, a lot of our core teams have backgrounds in machine learning phds in statistics and machine learning and and that really drives our our decision making. I mean, data is only useful if you can make sense of it and if you can organize it and if you can take action on it and to do that at this kind of scout scale, it's absolutely necessary to use machine learning technology. >>So you mentioned contextual also, you know, in advertising, everyone knows in that world that you've got the contextual behavioural dynamics, the behavior that's kind of generally everyone's believing is happening. The consensus is undeniable is that people are wanting to expect an environment where there's trust, there's truth, but also they want to be locked in. They don't wanna get walled into a walled garden, nobody wants to be in the world, are they want to be free to pop around and visit sites is more horizontal scalability than ever before. Yet, the bigger players are becoming walled garden, vertical platforms. So with future of ai the experience is going to come from this data. So the behavior is out there. How do you get that contextual relevance and provide the horizontal scale that users expect? >>Yeah, I think it's I think it's a really good point and we're definitely this kind of tipping point. We think, in the broader industry, I think, you know, every published right, we're really blessed to work with the biggest publishers in the world, all the way through to my mom's vlog, right? So we get to hear the perspectives of publishers at every scale. I think they consistently tell us the same thing, which is they want to more directly connected consumers, they don't wanna be tied into these walled gardens, which dictate how they must present their content and in some cases what content they're allowed to >>present. >>Um and so our job as a company is to really provide level >>the playing field a little bit, >>provide them the same capabilities they're only used to in the walled gardens, but let's give them more choice in terms of how they structure their content, how they organize their content, how they organize their audiences, but make sure that they can fund that effectively by making their audiences in their environments discoverable by marketers measurable by marketers and connect them as directly as possible to make that kind of ad funded economic model as effective in the open Internet as it is in social. And so a lot of the investments we've made over recent years have been really to kind of realize that vision, which is, it should be as easy for a marketer to be able to understand people on the open internet as it is in social media. It should be as effective for them to reach people in the environment is really high quality content as it is on facebook. And so we invest a lot of a lot of our R and D dollars in making that true. We're now live with the Comcast platform, which does exactly that. And as third party cookies go away, it only um only kind of exaggerated or kind of further emphasizes the need for direct connections between brands and publishers. And so we just wanna build the technology that helps make that true and gives the kind of technology to these marketers and publishers to connect and to deliver great experiences without relying on these kind of walled >>gardens. Yeah, the Director Director, Consumer Director audience is a new trend. You're seeing it everywhere. How do you guys support this new kind of signaling from for for that's happening in this new world? How do you ingest the content and just this consent uh signaling? >>Uh we were really fortunate to have an amazing, amazing R and D. Team and, you know, we've had to do all sorts to make this, you need to realize our vision. This has meant things like, you know, we have crawlers which scan the entire internet at this point, extract the content of the pages and kind of make sense of it and organize it uh, and organize it for publishers so they can understand how their audiences overlap with potential competitors or collaborators. But more importantly, organize it for marketers. So you can understand what kind of high impact opportunities are there for them there. So, you know, we've had to we've had to build a lot of technology. We've had to build analytics engines, which can get answers back in seconds so that marketers and publishers can kind of interact with their own data and make sense of it and present it in a way that's compelling and help them drive their strategy as well as their execution. We've had to invest in areas like consent management because we believe that a free and open internet is absolutely reliant on trust and therefore we spend a lot of our time thinking about how do we make it easy for end users to understand who has access to their data and easy for end users to be able to opt out. And uh and as a result of that, we've now got the world's most widely adopted adopted consent management platform. So it's hard to tackle one of these problems without tackling all of them. Were fortunate enough to have had a large enough R and D budget over the last four or five years, make a number investments, everything from consent and identity through context, your signals through the measurement technologies, which really bring advertisers >>and Publishers places together great insight. Last word for you is what's the what's the customer view here as you bring these new capabilities of the platform, uh what's what are you guys seeing as the highlight uh from a platform perspective? >>So the initial response that we've seen from our customers has been very encouraging, both on the publisher side as well as the marketer side. Um I think, you know, one of the things we hear quite a lot is uh you guys are at least putting forth a solution, an actual solution for us to test Peter mentioned measurement, that really is where we started because you cannot optimize what you cannot measure. Um so that that is where his team has started and we have some measurement very, very uh initial capabilities still in alpha, but they are available in the platform for marketers to test out today. Um so the initial response has been very encouraging. People want to engage with us um of course our, you know, our fundamental value proposition, which is that the Qantas platform was never built to be reliant on on third party data. These stale segments like we operate, we've always operated on real time live data. Um The second thing is, is our premium publisher relationships. We have had the privilege of working like Peter said with some of the um biggest publishers, but we also have a very wide footprint. We have first party tags across um over 100 million plus web and mobile destinations. Um and you know, as you must have heard like that sort of first party footprint is going to come in really handy in a world without third party cookies, we are encouraging all of our customers, publishers and marketers to grow their first party data. Um and so that that's something that's a strong point that customers love about us and and lean into it quite a bit. Um So yeah, the initial response has been great. Of course it doesn't hurt that we've made all these are in the investments. We can talk about consent. Um, and you know, I often say that consent, it sounds simple, but it isn't, there's a lot of technology involved, but there's lots of uh legal work involved as it as well. We have a very strong legal team who has expertise built in. So yeah, very good response. Initially >>democratization. Everyone's a publisher. Everyone's a media company. They have to think about being a platform. You guys provide that. So I congratulate Peter. Thanks for dropping the gems there. Shruti, thanks for sharing the product highlights. Thanks for, for your time. Thank you. Okay, this is the quan cast industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. And what's next? The cookie conundrum. The recipe for success with Kwan Cast. I'm john free with the cube. Thanks for watching. Mm

>>from >>Around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by >>IBM. Welcome back to IBM Think 2021. This is the cubes ongoing coverage where we go out to the events in this case of course virtually to extract the signal from the noise. And now we're gonna talk about the shifts in customer employee experiences and channels the past year obviously is exposed gap gaps in both of those areas. The shift to digital channels, I mean hit every industry if you weren't a digital business, you were out of business. So there's huge demand for better a. K. A less frustrating and hopefully superior customer experiences that's never been higher. It puts a lot of pressure on companies and their marketing departments to deliver. And with me to talk about these trends are two great guests Alex shooting in. The general manager of adobe work front Alex was ceo of Work front, which Adobe acquired last year and Matthew Candy Global managing director of I. B. M. I. X. Gentlemen welcome thanks for coming on, >>thanks for having us speaking >>matt, let's start with you. Maybe you could talk to the shifts that I talked about earlier and in the past year and customers expectations and how they changed and how you guys responded >>Yes, today, I mean it's been my goodness, what a year, right. Um you know, if we've got back and and thought yeah, we never would have seen this coming. Um and certainly I guess for the clients, you know, I run the digital customer experience business, the services business here at IBM and certainly, you know, we have been very busy helping clients across just about every industry accelerate their digital transformation efforts. And I think you know what has been absolutely clear is you know, digital mobile um you know, all of these ways of engaging with customers through channels has been an absolutely critical way in which businesses have kept going and survived over this time. And and certainly, you know, we've seen that transformation accelerate right? And and companies shifting from face to face interactions from a B two B sales perspective, um you know, into, you know, into a kind of online, B two B commerce etcetera. So really it's become digital by default and I think customers really demanding personalized experiences and wanting to make sure that these companies really know you and how they deal with you. >>You know, matt, I mean our business to think about our business, it was predominantly going out to events, live events and then overnight our entire industry had to shift to virtual and what it was is you had all these physical capabilities that people try to shove it into virtual. And it was really hard. It was it was a lot of unknowns really different. I imagine there's some parallels within marketing organizations and I wonder if you could talk about what kind of barriers you saw about delivering those kind of digital interactions and experiences. >>Yes, so I guess, you know, we've seen kind of five core challenges that companies have been facing. So firstly around volume and velocity of content. So, you know, as we're putting more demand into organizations right for more content to the greater pace. This causes challenges for companies in terms of being able to get content out there and surface it through their digital channels, right? Whether that's kiosks or voice, web mobile etcetera. And that pace is not slowing down. Second thing is this demand for personalization. So, you know, as companies and individuals are touching through all of these touchpoints across kind of marketing, sales and service, the need to be able to kind of interact in the right way, showing that, you know, me using personal data to match the right offer at the right time, critically important. Thirdly, the Martek stack across across many of these organizations is explosion in marketing technology over the last 10 years has been absolutely incredible. And so one of the big challenges companies have is how we tie all of these different components for stack together to build their seamless experience. Fourth challenge, right, additional communication channels. Um, so as we need more content and personalization and we've got to join up across these, all these different systems, how do we make this consistent across all of these channels? Right. Whether it's digital or physical, um, you know, is a true test of many organizations ability to respond. And the 5th point is the coordination needed across departments within companies. And so, you know how the marketing department deals with legal with regulatory approvals with sales, how they go out to their agency partners. And and and and this has certainly got a lot more complex across geography and across boundaries within companies and outside. And so we see, you know, absolutely this need to put in place and marketing, you know, basically the marketing system of record that helps kind of manage this and this is where we see huge opportunity together with adobe. >>Yeah, so Alex, maybe you could talk about this a little bit. I mean you guys are well known for deep expertise and leadership and orchestrating, you know, marketing workflows and the like Matt talked about the Martek stack. What's your take on this and how R R I B M I X and an adobe work front working together >>at what has occurred in response to what matt talked about is that companies started realizing that work was a tier one asset inside the marketing team. You know, they looked at, if you go back in time and you look at financials in a company, people thought, wow this is really important to us. We should put a system in place to manage financials. They realized their customers were really important, so we should put a system in place to manage our customers. People are important. They bought work day to make sure that they could manage their people. And all of this complexity that matt talked about caused enterprises to realize that the work of marketing was as important as some of those other activities in the organization. And so they started investing in a marketing system of record like work from. >>You know, that's interesting. Just a quick aside, I mean, if you think about a lot of the problems we have in in, you know, data and big data that people talk about stovepipe, you just mentioned three examples Finance HR and now marketing where we've contextualized the system, in other words, the domain experts, the people in finance and HR and marketing, they're the ones who know the date of the best. They don't have to go necessarily to some big data team and data scientists and all the stuff they know what they want and they know it and that's really what you guys are serving in your streamlining this this notion, Alex of a marketing system of record is really interesting. I mean, it's it's relatively new, isn't it? And so why does it matter so much to marketers >>if you think about it? We uh we've been able to serve 3000 enterprises around the, around the globe. We serve all 10 of the top 10 brands. Half of the fortune 100. And what what has created the need for the new if you think about it, are the challenges that start arising when you, when you implement the concepts that matt talked about, consider one of the largest private credit card issuers on the planet. Uh, and you think about delivering that personalized experience all the way to an end customer. You've got a private credit card issuer. They do business with hundreds of thousands of companies. Their account managers are interacting with those companies. And all that lands back on a marketing organization that has to jointly plan promotions with those companies to, uh, to, to drive the private credit card business. That marketing team needs visibility to the work that's happening. Or consider a major medical manufacturer who's trying to get medical products out the door. And the marketing team is trying to coordinate with the product team with the regulatory team, with the supply chain team, with the legal team and they're trying to orchestrate all of that work so that they can get products out the door more quickly. Or maybe a financial services organization that's getting new. Also trying to get new products out the door and they're trying to get all the approval about the content that goes with those products and it's all about speed to market. That's what's creating the need for the new, uh, kind of, as you phrased it Dave. >>Excellent. Thank you. So no matter paint a picture sort of, uh, you know, people may not be familiar with I. B. M. I X. Maybe how you guys, you got, you got creators, you've got deep expertise in this area. So maybe talk about how where you add value and how you work with adobe. >>So IBM so we sit within the services business at IBM um as you said, Dave Right, we have, you know, designers, experienced strategists, engineers, um you know, basically able to deliver kind of end to end digital customer experience solution right from the creative all the way through to the technology platforms. Um And the operations adobe is, you know, one of our key strategic partners across IBM and certainly within my part of the business. And so, you know, we couldn't have been more delighted when work front joined adobe through the acquisition there. So we already had a strong relationship with the work front team. Um and so now seeing that as part of the adobe kind of platform um and and family, they're really opens up massive opportunities. You know, we're working with several major airlines, automotive companies, retailers, um using adobe technology to transform the customer experiences that they have, putting in place new digital platforms, a new ways of engaging with those customers. But but what is absolutely clear, you know, and as Alex was talking about this need for a marketing systems of record, as this landscape becomes more complex, as the velocity of change kind of increases the need to not just focus on the customer experience and how a customer interacts with the brand, but the need to get the workflows and the processes within the organization that sit behind that, you know, organized executing in the correct way, uh you know, in an efficient way in order to make sure that you can deliver on that customer promise. And so this is absolutely critical effectively to get to get to drive this kind of workflow improvement of productivity improvement and put intelligence and automation into these processes across the organization. So there is a you know, certainly we know we believe a huge opportunity together in in in the market um to help clients transform um and to deliver the value in this space. Got >>it Alex, maybe you can just at a high level share some examples of how adobe and from your drawing on your experience from from work front, how you've helped companies where they had to get you know content out, you had to automate the processes and and the kind of outcomes that you saw that you hope to share with other clients. >>You know what that's talking about is the need for intelligent workflows within a marketing organization. Because the marketing organization is trying to solve one of two challenges. Either they're trying to be more efficient because they can't get more resources to do the work that they need to do or they're trying to operate with speed and so what our breakthrough thinking was there in terms of solving these problems. And then I'll give you an example is the realization that while it seems like work should be different in different enterprises. Ultimately all work has five elements to it. The first thing is you decide to do something or I ask you to do something. So we have to have this strategic planning around the intake of work. Then we have to plan out the work. Then we actually have to execute the work. We have to understand who's doing what we have to have transparency to whether or not that work is getting done or people need help in network, then network needs to be approved by somebody. And then finally, especially in marketing, then we have to actually deliver that work to a technology like Am where we're going to publish it on, on the web. So if you take the case of a major financial, uh, a financial company that serves consumers, that financial company is constantly bringing new products to market. Now, if you're bringing new products to market, if you think about the United States, you have to, you have to make sure that you have, uh, supported the regulatory approval that's necessary for a product. So that product has to be able to go to the right investor. That product, if it's in a certain state, has to have oversight to it. So now you're, you're a Marketing team in a financial services organization that supported getting new product to market. And in a particular customer used to take them 63 days to go through all of the approvals necessary to just get content out the door. Now that they are effectively uh in taking the work, Planning the work, executing the work, reviewing the work and delivering the work digitally. That's down to eight days. >>And with the Martek platform, you have the data so you know what content you want to get out and you can make decisions. Much about. My big takeaway is you got the art of of of of marketing. And those were the marketing D. N. A. I don't have that, you know that that gene uh but it's intersecting with with the science and automation and the data and the workflows and driving efficiency and ultimately driving results in in revenue. So that's kind of my big takeaway from this conversation. But but Alex maybe you can give us your take away and then matt, you can bring us home. >>Yeah, I mean my takeaway is in this new economy, marketing is a is a tier one corporate activity. Marketing is a pure activity to manufacturing, to distribution to sales into finance. And every one of those disciplines are managed with a system. Marketing needs its own system because it's as important as any other organization. And so to me, David is no more complicated than that, that marketing is now as important as every other function and it needs to be manages every other function. And work front is the application that marketing manages the workflows in the business of marketing. >>Alright. Matt, give us your final thoughts please. >>Yeah, no, my final thought, building on what building what Alex said. So we've put together a joint point of view with with Adobe in with Work front called intelligent content transformation. Right? That is our strategic framework to help clients accelerate on this journey, both of delivering these amazing customer outcomes. But how we transform the processes within the marketing organization and I think you know that yes, you can continue to focus on delivering amazing digital experiences for customers. And it's absolutely critical and that's critical to revenue growth. But actually what's also critical is to drive efficiency in these workflows across the enterprise. Right? And that is not only going to enable the revenue growth is going to enable you to deliver on that promise, but it's also going to result in significant cost and efficiency improvements for these companies by focusing on marketing in the same way as we have done for procurement, transformation, supply chain transformation, finance transformation, HR transformation, right? There's a lot of effort garment into, into the efficiency of those work clothes. We've got to do the same for marketing. Um so massive opportunity, massive. It is >>massive. Every company has to in some way, shape or form, put high quality content in front of their customers to engage with them. Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on the cube. Really appreciate your time. >>Yeah, Thanks for having us. >>All right, and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Volonte for the Cube. You're watching IBM think 2021. The virtual edition. We're right back. >>Mhm.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by A. W s Global Partner Network. >>Okay, welcome back to the Cube. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Virtual were not there in person. We're doing remote interviews, bringing that content to you virtually obviously with the virtual vent over three weeks, Walter Wall coverage Got a great guest here. Norman Quijano, Chief market officer for Acoustic. Normally great to have you on the Cube. Great story. Want to get into independent marketing? Cloud all that good stuff? Thanks for joining me. >>It's a pleasure to be here, John. I'm excited to chat with you, and it's exciting during reinvent. >>Yeah, a lot of great stuff. I mean, just every year I just get kind of nerdy, and I nerd out on all the massive new stuff and some of its kind of, you know, futuristic, you know, not yet available, but most is. But let's get into what you guys do. So first tell me the story about Acoustic and you guys were originally part of IBM spun out, and now independent. Take us through what happened. >>Yeah, sure, it's It's actually a super fascinating story overall, because in short, Acoustic was created last year, July 2019, as a carve out from IBM. The interesting history is that over the course of about a decade, IBM said, this marketing technology space is pretty interesting. So it went and acquired a number of companies across multiple years. Hold it all together in what it called IBM Watson marketing ultimately and said, We're in the marketing technology space, unfortunately. Turns out that's probably not, ah, core business for IBM. So Ah, few years ago, someone said, Maybe we're not in this space. Let's see if we can put this car of this out. And so we were born last July were private equity owned and from, ah, great history became a great new beginning. >>Awesome. So talk about the value proposition. You guys living here says you guys were the independent marketing cloud. Does that mean independent in the sense of you don't take a position on certain technologies or independent as a company? Just what does that mean? >>Why independent used to be a simple word, but it doesn't have so It's not so simple anymore, now, is it? You know what we mean by that is very straightforward. One. We are private, and we are focused on marketing and marketers, and we are not beholden to other parts of the business that may be trying to serve back, office or finance or other elements in a business. And what we think that the marketer today which, as you know, marketers usually have the or one of the biggest I T budgets in a company. We think they need providers that are focused on their needs and their needs only. >>Yeah, it's interesting. The Martek stack and I just had a conversation with the venture capitalists live on the kickoff of the program for the show Review it this pre cloud There's cloud transition Now. You got all in cloud benefits of being cloud native, right? So you kind of 2021. I think we're in this post covert era. You got to see a whole new set of advantages. Yeah, they'll still be hybrid. They'll still be on premise. But if you look at the all the Martek marketing technology stuff, it's just so much stuff and salesforce just bought slack. You have Microsoft tea and the big guys, all these things, and you only have a departments don't have a lot of staff. It's not >>like eso. You need >>technology to try. Great do the heavy lifting. This is a big theme of of the Amazon reinvent culture. Using tech creates the customer value, reduced the heavy lifting. How are you guys doing that? How do you serve customers >>in that competitive landscape? It's a well set up job, because the reality is that we have a lot. There's a lot of companies in the marketing technology space you can look at charts online there, 8000 companies evidently on. But the reality is that very few of those companies are trying to provide big sort of end to end solutions the way that we are and some of our large competitors are. But they're all at different stages of the revolution in the cloud, because most of the bigger companies in this space got their Martek capabilities through acquisition, and they may have sort of carry forward a pre cloud, uh, technology stack with them. What we're trying to do is really two things. One We moved our technology to the cloud. In particular. Over 90% of our workload is on AWS now. And we're trying to find the integration points with our customers with their equally moving to public cloud like AWS, and give them the capability of being able to bring up capabilities quickly, particularly in something like email Be able to scale. Right? We're in the middle of the holiday season is the busiest time of the year for businesses to send email, and we wanna make sure that our customers can scale up. We want them to have that capability, and we wanna be able to take advantage of that so we don't have toe over invest in back end technology. We want marketers to feel as empowered as the CEO who's here. So I'm all in on the cloud. Well, what about the marketers? They're the ones who should be using that, and and I think something like a w s and continue to grow. And me and the capabilities that every part are they AWS will continue to provide value to the marketers to the customer experience team as well as to the I T team. >>How are you guys using data and AI because obviously you seeing that huge part of every single product. It's one of those things that you see on and we've been saying for years now it's kind of mainstream, the benefit of clouds. You get horizontal scalability of infrastructure. Now you got lamb Daniel containers and then you got data you can get vertically specialized within the app. So if you do the micro services or deconstruct the monolith, you could really provide point value and still get that data scale. So this opens up massive data intelligence opportunities, which every marketer wants to be data driven. S O R O r. Use the data to make a great user experience or customer experience. How do you guys see that? And Acoustic. And what do you guys doing in the clouds around that you >>share? Well, first of all, somehow you got ahold of our are confidential roadmap because you just laid it out right there. And what you said, it's not so confidential. But the reality is it's market >>leading for sure. I mean, I think you can. That's the Holy Grail. I mean, >>it's where everyone wants to be, and we had at Acoustic have a very specific philosophy is that we want to. We want to embrace data, and we mean, of course, on behalf of our customers. And we want to bring data to empower every every application in every part of the marketers business. And for better or worse, there's some marketing technology sort of have a little bit of, ah, little hands off with data, particularly if it's not their own data. We believe that whether it's first party, second party, third party data it needs to be brought into the marketing life cycle, and we are building or have built capabilities to do that. We believe in being open, believe in being ableto bring in all sorts of different data types, and then use that to build the best marketing campaigns and experiences for our customers and for their customer. And if you're not embracing all the types of data out there in creating a unique formula for each particular customer, you're not gonna deliver the best marketing experience. Yeah, >>I totally agree. And I think one of these things where modern applications there's two themes here. Modern applications and then completely programmable infrastructure for Amazon and this again. I've been covering cloud for many, many years since the beginning of cloud, and I've looked at all the big three. And I see Amazon's been clearly winning on the infrastructure of the service platform as a service. They Yeah, they have sass apps out there, but they have an ecosystem. Microsoft has their own strategy. Google the other you picked Amazon is a preferred partner. Could you share? Um, Why? Why Amazon And what specifically does that enable you to dio a za company? Because, um, yeah, Amazon's huge and some people get nervous like Okay, I'm just gonna be Oh, you're gonna eat me up and you're in a marketing focus, not a not a court. I don't have a core building block out there called Marketing Cloud like Oracle does or one of the company's. Why Amazon. >>Yeah, I think that you really sort of laid the landscape out well, and Amazon is very much a a full stack. And and there's so much maturity in AWS overall, which you don't necessarily see the sort of top to bottom maturity that you see in the other of the clouds and Amazon and all clouds right we we all want to be able to tap into micro services. So when we were trying to figure out what gave us the scalability that we needed, we were really focused on the ability to integrate at multiple touch points. Three. Ability to scale up really fast because, like during the holiday season were transacting billions of transactions. Whether it be emails that our customers are sending or SMS messages that they're sending so billions of transactions over a fixed period of time, we need to be able to scale quickly at an affordable price on We also believe that actually, a lot of marketing departments are going to start to realize the value of plugging into the service is available in a public cloud, particularly is they see things such as taking data from 33rd parties, right? How did they get that into the system or taking their marketing stacks and ultimately may potentially putting those stacks in containers, right. How do you move that into a container and be able to quickly connect other micro services to that container? So we think that this is the absolute future of where the marketing department is gonna end up. And we think Amazon and AWS could be a great partner because it gives you that global footprint gives you that ability to scale and gives you the richest set of services available right now. That was a really easy decision for us. >>Awesome stuff. Thanks for coming on. Normal. Really appreciate you laying out your vision of the cloud. Take a minute real quick. We got a couple minute left, put the plug out for Acoustic. What do you guys looking to do? What's the value proposition? Give a plug for the company. >>Yeah, we we left talking about Acoustic, and you can certainly visit us it Acoustic dot com Acoustic is a full service marketing platform. We are modern, we are cloud based, and one of the things that we do is we specialize and focus on marketing and the marketing function. And if anybody out there is interested in finding out more, you can not only come to Acoustic dot com. You can ping me because we believe that marketers are key decision makers and myself is our CMO wants to talk to every potential client. >>No one. Thanks for coming on. The Moncada you Chief market officer Acoustic here, featured on the Cube. But Adam's reinvent Thanks for coming on. Thanks. It >>was a pleasure, John. >>Thank you. I'm John Fair hosted the Cube. More coverage after this short break. Stay with us. Form or cube. Live coverage. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. >>It's the >>Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah. Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Virtual not there in person. We're doing remote interviews, bringing that content to you virtually obviously with the virtual vent over three weeks, Walter Wall coverage Got a great guest here. Norman Quijano, chief market officer for acoustic. Normally great to have you on the Cube. Great story. Want to get into independent marketing? Cloud all that good stuff? Thanks for joining me. >>It's a pleasure to be here, John. I'm excited to chat with you, and it's exciting during reinvent. >>Yeah, a lot of great stuff. I mean, just every year I just get kind of nerdy, and I nerd out on all the massive new stuff and some of its kind of, you know, futuristic not yet available, but most is. But let's get into what you guys do. So first tell me the story about acoustic and you guys were originally part of IBM. Spun out. And now independent Take us through what happened. >>Yeah, sure it's It's actually a super fascinating story overall, because in short, acoustic was created last year, July 2019, as a carve out from IBM. The interesting history is that over the course of about a decade, IBM said, this marketing technology space is pretty interesting. So it went and acquired a number of companies across multiple years. Hold it all together in what it called IBM Watson marketing ultimately and said, We're in the marketing technology space, unfortunately. Turns out that's probably not a core business for IBM. So a few years ago, someone said, Maybe we're not in this space. Let's see if we can put this car of this out. And so we were born last July were private equity owned and from, Ah, great history became a great new beginning. >>Awesome. So talk about the value proposition. You guys living here says You guys air the independent marketing cloud. Does that mean independent in the sense of you don't take a position on certain technologies or independent as a company? Just what does that mean? >>Why independent used to be a simple word, but it doesn't have so it's not so simple anymore. Now is it. You know what we mean by that is very straightforward one. We are private, and we are focused on marketing and marketers, and we are not beholden to other parts of the business that may be trying to serve back, office or finance or other elements in a business. And what we think that the marketer today which, as you know, marketers usually have the or one of the biggest I T budgets in a company. We think they need providers that are focused on their needs and their needs Home. >>Yeah, it's interesting. The Martek stack and I just had a conversation with the venture capitalists. Live on the kickoff of the program for the show Review it this pre cloud this cloud transition. Now you got all in cloud benefits of being cloud native. Right? So you kind of 2021. I think we're in this post covert era. You got to see a whole new set of advantages. Yeah, they'll still be hybrid. They'll still be on premise. But if you look at the all the Martek marketing technology stuff, it's just so much stuff and Salesforce just bought slack. You have Microsoft tea and the big guys, all these things, and you only have a departments don't have a lot >>of staff. It's not like eso. You need >>technology to try. Great. Do the heavy lifting. This is a big theme of of the Amazon reinvent culture. Using tech creates the customer value. Reduce the heavy lifting. How are you guys doing that? How do you serve customers >>in that competitive landscape? It's a well set up job, because the reality is that we have a lot. There's a lot of companies in the marketing technology space you can look at charts online there, 8000 companies evidently on. But the reality is that very few of those companies are trying to provide big sort of anti and solutions the way that we are and some of our large competitors are. But they're all at different stages of the revolution in the cloud, because most of the bigger companies in this space got their Martek capabilities through acquisition, and they may have to sort of carry forward a pre cloud, uh, technology stack with him. What we're trying to do is really two things. One. We moved our technology to the cloud and in particular, over 90% of our workload is on AWS now. And we're trying to find the integration points with our customers with their equally moving to public cloud like AWS, and give them the capability of being able to bring up capabilities quickly, particularly in something like email Be able to scale. Right? We're in the middle of the holiday season is the busiest time of the year for businesses to send email, and we wanna make sure that our customers can scale up. We want them to have that capability, and we wanna be able to take advantage of that so we don't have toe over invest in back end technology. We want marketers to feel as empowered as the CEO Who's yours. Oh, I'm all in on the cloud. Well, what about the marketers? They're the ones who should be using that, And and I think something like AWS and continue to grow and me and the capabilities that every part of AWS will continue to provide value to the marketers to the customer experience team as well as to the I T >>team. How are you guys using data and AI? Because I see seeing that huge part of every single product. It's one of those things that you see on and we've been saying for years Now it's kind of mainstream, the benefit of clouds. You get horizontal scalability of infrastructure. Now you get lamb Daniel containers and then you got data you can get vertically specialized within the app. So if you do the micro services or deconstruct the monolith, you could really provide point value and still get that data scale. So this opens up massive data intelligence opportunities, which every marketer wants to be data driven. S O R O r. Use the data to make a great user experience or customer experience. How do you guys see that? And acoustic. And what do you guys doing in the clouds around that you >>share? Well, first of all, somehow you got ahold of our are confidential roadmap because you just laid it out right there. And what you said, it's not so confidential. But the reality is it's market >>leading for sure. I mean, I think you can. That's the Holy Grail. I mean, >>it's where everyone wants to be. And we had at acoustic have a very specific philosophy. Is that we want to. We want to embrace data, and we mean, of course, on behalf of our customers. And we want to bring data to empower every every application in every part of the marketers business. And for better or worse, there's some marketing technology sort of have a little bit of, ah, little hands off with data, particularly if it's not their own data. We believe that whether it's first party, second party, third party data it needs to be brought into the marketing life cycle, and we are building or have built capabilities to do that. We believe in being open, believe in being ableto bring in all sorts of different data types, and then use that to build the best marketing campaigns and experiences for our customers and for their customer. And if you're not embracing all the types of data out there in creating a unique formula for each particular customer, you're not gonna deliver the best marketing >>experience. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think one of these things where modern applications there's two themes here. Modern applications and then completely programmable infrastructure for Amazon. And this again, I've been covering cloud for many, many years since the beginning of Cloud and I've looked at all the big three and I see Amazon's been clearly winning on the infrastructure of the service platform is a service. They Yeah, they have sass apps out there, but they have an ecosystem. Microsoft has their own strategy. Google the other you picked Amazon is a preferred partner. Could you share? Um Why? Why Amazon And what specifically does that enable you to dio a za company? Because, um, yeah, Amazon's huge and some people get nervous like Okay, I'm just gonna You're gonna eat me up and you're in a marketing focus, not a not a court. I don't have a core building block out there called Marketing Cloud like Oracle does or other companies by Amazon. >>Yeah, I think that you really sort of laid the landscape out well, and Amazon is very much a a full stack. And and there's so much maturity in AWS overall, which you don't necessarily see the sort of top to bottom maturity that you see in the other of the clouds and Amazon and all clouds, right? We we all want to be able to tap into micro services, so when we were trying to figure out what gave us the scalability that we needed, we were really focused on the ability to integrate at multiple touch points Theobald iti to scale up really fast because, like during the holiday season, were transacting billions of transactions. Whether it be emails that our customers are sending or SMS messages that they're sending so billions of transactions over a fixed period of time, we need to be able to scale quickly at an affordable price on We also believe that actually, a lot of marketing departments are going to start to realize the value of plugging into the service is available in a public cloud, particularly as they see things such as taking data from 33rd parties. Right? How did they get that into the system or taking their marketing stacks and ultimately may potentially putting those stacks in containers, right. How do you move it into a container and be able to quickly connect other micro services to that container? So we think that this is the absolute future of where the marketing department is gonna end up and we think Amazon and AWS could be a great partner because it gives you that global footprint gives you that ability to scale and gives you the richest set of services available right now. That was a really easy decision for us. >>Awesome stuff. Thanks for coming on. Normal. Really appreciate you laying out your vision of the cloud. Take a minute, real quick. We got a couple of minutes left. Put the plug out for acoustic. What do you guys looking to do? What's the value proposition? Give a plug for the company. >>Yeah, we we left talking about acoustic, and you can certainly visit us it acoustic dot com Acoustic is a full service marketing platform. We are modern, we are cloud based, and one of the things that we do is we specialize and focus on marketing and the marketing function. And if anybody out there is interested in finding out more, you can not only come to acoustic dot com. You can ping me because we believe that marketers are key decision makers and myself is our CMO wants to talk to every potential >>client number. Thanks for coming on. The Moncada you Chief market officer acoustic here featured on the Cube, but Adam's reinvent thanks for coming on. Thanks. It >>was a pleasure, John. >>Thank you. I'm John for hosting the Cube. More coverage after this short break. Stay with us form or Cube. Live coverage.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. Brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Welcome back, everyone. Cube Live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John. For whichever Frick. My Coast. This week. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Our next guest is Janine Falcone. Is the marketing agency lead in North America for a center in Iraq? Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having >> me love having the conversation just talking on before we came on camera around the role of the agencies. You guys are doing a lot of big work for big brands. B to C B to B. There's a big shift going on with Cloud computing. We've seen that movie is happening right now. Amazon, as you are all going on, but that what? The marketing world. It's not just about marketing. Cloud is a lot more going on there. The impact to the marketing world and the agency relationships are impacted. That's what's going on. Give us >> the state of >> the market, >> happy to sew an extension. Interactive. You know, a lot of clients come to us and they're living in this world. I talk with my hands. Sorry, living in this world of, like chaos, as I like to call it, because there's so many things going on the technology landscape that you described. It's crazy out there. Remember, the landscape used to be this big announces big. So there's all that sort of market buzz and chaos around. I should buy this technology in that technology, and marketers and CEOs they've all been out there doing, that's that's one piece. The second piece is the customer affectation, right? All that is evolving and changes a customer's always expect. I don't really carry our retailer bank whatever. They kind of have that uber experience that they all expect regardless of product or service or anything like that. So marketers have always tried to deal with that in the way they knew how. But then the third component is business climate and what's happening in their worlds with either shrinking budgets or aging workforce. I don't even mean age necessarily as much a skill set. Aging skill sets things that used to matter. Don't they've got that they've got organizational silos, they've got all these things. So those three things, plus I'm a marketer. I still have to deliver that old brand promise that they're told to dio, It's a crazy crazy time. >> All theaters air on massive change over chips happening. Marketers and CMOS also relied on agencies for help. Tell them they have domain expertise in certain areas, A and agencies and the other thing. But now that the value equations shifting in the economics underlying economics behind it are getting some visibility around its digital different new ballgame, you got a I and Machine Learning has caused that shift. So the question is, How should your customer how are your customers dealing with agency relation? Because in today's value exchange, >> totally and that's all >> don't often come ask us that so not only they have all those silos and all those things. They could have seventeen different agencies across multiple product lines that may have been doing a great job in their own silo. But who's bringing all that together? And then it's not even and my just not spending my money right with these agencies, like What are they delivering for that? So when they come to us, tow holistically, look across all of that and help them. We start with the customer in the center of all those siloed crazy areas. You've got to start with the customer, and what do they expect and how do you deliver to them? So, yes, we're seeing this crazy world in the agency space two of brandade disease desolate all the different kinds of agency >> toss another piece of fruit in the blender makes it all. So I was talking with the sea so that the chief information security officer at some chief security officer at Microsoft reports to the board in cybersecurity, going through the same transformation that it's happening, marking where now you have technology and AP eyes and and tools technical tools. So he's shrinking his supplier base down because he doesn't want his skills gas to get widened by having to learn new tools. So there's now a new forcing function on the tech side, and now we see that kind of creeping into the adobe conversation where it's like this techno involved. Yes, we now have toes, shrink suppliers even more so how do you get from seventeen to three years at the train? So there seems to be a discussion around the impact attack your thoughts. >> Yeah, well, absolutely. That was one of the areas I talked about. So what happens? There is they'LL need marketers to understand technology which today many do. Let's be honest, right? Like, ten, fifteen years ago. They didn't. Today they do. But it also requires you both internally and externally, tohave multiple skill sets. And sometimes they'LL say, Should I be bringing this in house shivering that in house? What do I do with this technology? And there's never one answer. There's never like you should enforce this or that. And so technology has had that massive impact on Oh, I could do this myself and then they realise that can and then back to the But do I have the right skill sets internally externally to be able to do that. And it's often seventeen different still skill sets to do one thing where it used to be. A lot >> of Jeff and I talked on the cue before about you know, the classic business school conversation around core competency should be in house Horak outsource your non core competencies. How did you see that evolved? Because at some point there has to be a core concert on data and things of that nature. So what's your thoughts? How do you advise clients on Okay, if you're going to go in house and start putting a toe in the water and building it out, it's an investment. And all I think about, what's the core competency? >> I mean core competence to me or anything related specifically to your industry that people have to continue to get skilled in an expert in. And they want to do just that. One thing. Sometimes people that are broader generalists in marketing and data, they might get bored doing that. But if someone is like, I want to be really good at this and I'm going to continue to hone my skills in that one thing Data Analytics, whatever, then that may be. And you live in the right market. You don't live in kind of a part of the country where it be hard to find those skills. Be honest. I mean some parts of the country, it's easier than others, so that is one way to look at it. But anything that requires generalist knowledge across industry knowledge or or things that are constantly evolving and you want someone else to pay for the training. >> What's the CMO conversation like for you in clients these days is actually lets a lot of stuff going on. We just illustrated the game is still the same. They gotta pride that brand promise. Now they got the text taxing always new things. Hopefully, Ball will move down the field faster. But what is the CMO conversation that you have? How they stay ahead of the curve? What's their edge? >> Yeah, >> how they posturing right now? >> I mean, I think it's an amazing time to be in marketing. So CM owes to me that are the pioneering. CMO is the ones that are really focusing back is in on the customer and developed, you know, delivering those relevant experiences. They're the ones that are being ex successful because they try toe, not certainly not. Ignore all of us chaos that's surrounding, but stay focused and then they don't worry about Oh, this isn't in my silo. I have to kind of reach across, and I have to make sure I get this first. They have to be the leaders. They have to lead the industry like knowledge and business would be the leader in the organization, whether or not they are and just be the pioneer to get that done, that makes them successful. The ones that are excited about that they're the future, writes >> funny. We interviewed a guy from Clorox while ago, and you think of CPG has been data driven forever right there coming out of there coming out of Cincinnati. They all got trained Teo G. But this is a whole different level of kind of, of data, of data driven execution's been than what they've been doing for years and years and years. That's >> right, because potentially they were product centric. So they dealt with their product in CPD, and I'm going to sell toilet paper. That's I'm going to be the best market or there is. But the customer expectations surrounding that have changed, and they expect you to know them in a relevant, non creepy way. And product marketing to customer marketing is a big shift, and potentially I know a lot. I know a little about a lot of industries. CPG has been very product focused, which is difficult when you now have to be customer centric, regardless of product right that your company is trying to >> send the >> changing rule of distribution, especially in cpt. Anywhere before they would. They would ship the the toilet paper, whatever they were doing, and it goes out the door and they don't know anything else about it to the next. Word comes in correct. Now they know how the products are being used. They got a direct connection to the to the customer, and they need to establish a relationship beyond just the actual execution of the purchase of a very different >> kind of a chance. Crazy. I love it. I think it's a crazy time >> to be able to do that. And again, the blurring between marketing and commerce and sales and service. There's all sorts of debates on where marketing ends commerce sales service begins because it's all clustered together now. Then there's creativity and technology and data and analytics all converging. So to me, people that understand all of those things at a high enough level and are good collaborators and orchestrators that know how to get things done, they will be successful. >> Do you take a lot of people tried to buy their way out of the problem because you know Martek technology has been around for a long time. Arguably, you know, kind of leading edge in a lot of the the things in terms of a web experience. But this, you know, so many of them. >> You can't buy your way out of the problem. Yeah, Yeah, except that. And >> buy it quickly, right? I'm going to buy it, and I'm gonna plug the sand. I mean, I feel like that might have happened years ago, and now you're right there seeing that. Oh, my God. Now, that, too, is like its own silo. Now they have a technology silo to, in addition to potentially some organizational silos that they have to break down. So But, you know, the good news is that everybody sort of sees this now and kind of gets it. And if people are just sort of focused on to do the right thing for the customer because if you don't, someone else will. And sometimes going back to what used to work works like Now, if I call a company, I have no expectation they're going to answer the phone. And when they do, you're like, Wow, that was a great experience. I scheduled a vacation. It was It ended up being non refundable. And I'm like, I'm just going to try to call. It was one of the online. It wasn't Airbnb was one of those like services I caught. They answer the phone. If seven o'Clock on a Thursday night, >> no problem. You can count. Like this is the greatest experience I've had. I'm going to use them again because I didn't expect >> that. So it's not like what used to work doesn't work anymore, but has to work on the right. >> Pleasant surprises. Exactly. Relevancy. That's healthy. And you got it. Yeah. And then they >> said I said, Okay, well, I mean, they're like, we don't need your information, you know, I have your cell phone, so I don't >> know. And I wasn't creeped out by that. I don't >> thank God. Now I don't have to fill out a form >> I need to do mother's maiden name, like, six different times. >> And then, you know what? I saw how you guys make >> money. Like I was so fascinated by this that I just had to sort of figure out the business model because I'm a marker there. And my point is that was. I don't know how much it costs them to do that, but that was a positive experience, >> President. People call in >> there, Bryan. Nobody call it. And I don't know how they got around the company for all I know. So I gotta ask you, I gotta ask >> you with all these new changes you mentioned in one of the great example of how the world's changing KP eyes also change around what's really what's relevant. Because these new things air going on where may or may not have KP I. So how does the CMO get out in front of that? How did they evolve their skill set to either either grok that understand all this new k p I potential? Yeah, and have that front and center and working through the marketing mix. >> Yeah, you can have KP I overload to write. So remember, old school still works. Brand matters. Brandt. No one worried about measuring that stuff years ago, and part of that is still relevant. I had a session earlier today and people talked about CP eyes like customer related influence and things like that, because that matters and some things you absolutely I know This is a Dobie a mike in trouble. You maybe can't necessarily measure. But, you know, it matters to your brand, and some of that matters to know how much you spend on that, how you sort of track that and maybe track I'm all about, like, mixing gray and mixing, you know, qualitative and quantitative stuff. That's part of the trick >> on these signals. Their market, their data signals totally put on the agency front. Go back to the agency for second because with sass, APS and these new things, people answer the phone, which has blended kind of channels. Is there a new agency model emerging around cloud and sass applications that that this doesn't feel like an agency but acts like an agency? Because if you're an agency you're providing a service, you have software service models out there. Self service is there in the evolution of change over and how ages new agencies looked like. And how does the CMO know if someone's a new agency is going to be relevant or not? >> I mean, it totally depends on the kind of agents, and I would tell C Motor not necessarily worry about that. I wouldn't worry about. Do I need a new kind of agency at all? It's like, What am I getting? What are they delivering for me? I would go back to the first question and what do I need to keep as a core competency? And inside versus outside I wouldn't worry about it. Might be the technology question. Right now, I'm gonna have even the others other crazy agencies in What I would worry about is what do I know? I need toe outsource and have people help me with that are going to come up with the best ideas. And I mean, agencies still do that because to come up with a creative idea, you need that expertise that is outside of your industry. So I don't see that ever changing >> don't ask in terms of because, he said, cause brand matters. And I always like a Harley Davidson is kind of the extreme brand loyalty where people tattoo it on their bodies and there's a whole ecosystem outside of the motorcycle. That's a really, you know, passionate group of people. Should everybody strive for that kid everybody. I mean they can't get quite where every tattoo and brands on their arm. But you know where we're kind of the limits And is it, you know, kind of appropriate based on what the product is, how people think about that. Specter. >> Yeah, I might be a little biased on that. I always think brand matters. I always think that when you think of something, if you don't in your head, know what that stands for, whether or not it's a positive or negative is not really relevant. It's yes, I think it does now. Should they strive to be that? No. But they have to be differentiated, and they have to have people know what they do quickly, because if you have to figure it out like mean, people struggle with that today in terms of knowing where to go for what, So without a clear value proposition, differentiation and a brand that matches that and a brand you can live up to with every experience, it's going to be rough. You might have some early success, but it won't. I don't know that it lasts their time and strong brands kind of carry through some tough times, too, You know, if sales are down on the market changes, >> we'LL keep doing our and our interviews on events and get smart people really smart people. And all the answers come out community. Thanks >> so much for coming on, sharing these awesome insights. Final question. What's going on? The show for you? What? Some of the hallway conversations here. You're speaking. What's the top story line for you here at this show? >> It's two things. It's what's going on. The market with our clients is as we just talked about. It's what's going on in our own industry. I mean, there's craziness in our own industry, which is kind of fun. You know what players do, what and who's going to do what and you know, where's this all going? And it's fun. I mean, it's it's really, really fun and exciting to be part of this industry. >> Well, thanks for coming on, Mr. Q. Where we're extracting the signal from the noise at this event. Adobe Summit twenty nineteen Talking the smartest people bringing it to you. Bring that data to you. We right back with more coverage after this short break

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John Murray with Jeffrey Kerr. Next guest. Touch Wars. Who's a global delivery lead for Adobe with sent a censure interactive. That was a tongue twister. You for you, for the adobe relationship with a censure interactive. That's correct. Thank you. Global delivery lead. Thank you. That's right. Look into the Cube. Thankyou. So global. Big big landscape, cloud computing, Global impact delivery. That's hard corn nuts and bolts on the front lines. Tell us by what you do, what some of the issues around delivery, because that's where the rubber hits the road on all this. >> Well, that's exactly right. You know, when I think of my roll, think of me if someone who's out there working shoulder to shoulder with customers when it, you know from a delivery aspect, you know, providing the capability, providing the skills, providing the talent, making sure that we're getting the results that our clients are looking for and ultimately the quality that that we need to deliver for them. >> You guys do a lot of work. I mean, censure Interactive got a great team that sets up all the upgrade ideas, all the new business models. New tech is here. People process, culture change all going on. The end of the day comes into your I've gotta deliver it. And then the outcome is that the one has to accept that this is a core issue of people, talk about operational izing new things and sometimes has changed. Management involved his new culture shifts. So this is where we hear a lot. It's not. The tech problem is the people and the culture. Can you share your view on this because you're on the front lines on this one issue? >> It's a great point. And I think you know, one thing is standing up technology, and you can sort of get some of the nuts and bolts running. It's another thing to really get our clients and our customers enabled so they can unleash the power of some of these platforms. The technologies you know, there's a entire journey map on what their own people we need to go through from in a moment. There is a change management aspect around how we get those folks sort of feeling comfortable about that, and we often go through a couple different methods to do that. Sometimes we do it too, in the box where we'll sort of act with them and the same role other ways we'll sort of lead by example and do it and then they'll sort of shadow us and then eventually we just sort of make that transition. In some cases, they just frankly, you know, outsource it to us, right? And well take over that sort of feature and functionality a role in position on behalf of our customer. And that's okay. >> kind of horsepower. Do you bring to the table? And we just interviewed Nicky, who handles the essential interactive operations that seem like a great power source standing up fast, some operational capabilities. What else do you guys do bring to the table in terms of the delivery piece? >> Well, >> what Nikki and her team do is vital for us. So when you think about when I'm out there doing, I'm out there standing up these capabilities, empowering our customers, and then Nikki's with her team and everything we're doing an X century active operations is sort of operating that for that client, right? So once we sort of turn on some of those features and functions that Nicki's out there with her team, sort of running with it. And in that multiyear run in, getting those >> custom will hand the keys to her. Do so you, that's the hand off. Is that okay? >> Exactly. Right. So once we once we sort of power everything on with our client's power, all that integration on and then we leverage Nikki and her team in many ways to sort of take over that run. Tom, if you talk about the skills, that kind of the skills gap, if you will on some of the clients that you have and how are the skills and the rules evolving to execute with some of these new tooling in this kind of new process? It wasn't like build a campaign and slow roll it out. Now it's Go, go, go, go, go! Oh, you're absolutely right on that and I think I know that. But it's evolving, right? I mean, we data scientists are more important than they ever were. And so all of our customers and ourselves are investing on how we get data science because at the heart of it and If you think about what he's talking about in some of the new products that are coming out, it's about building that data layer right. And it's about taking that data later to the next level, too, around security and tradition. So helping our customers started get their arms around what it means to manage that data and all those aspects around the view of a customer is critical. Even the even the presentation tear you know it'LL be provides all those amazing technologies that allow customers to drive those rich experiences, whether it's on a tablet, whether it's on a mobile, whether it's on your desktop, ubiquitous doesn't matter. But that presentation tears is constantly changing. I mean, we didn't have, you know, the anger and the React ten years ago. Now you have all these other frameworks you have to begin to prepare for. >> About the one of his Aquino yesterday we've got my attention was the word and look, I love the way it sounds personalization at scale. And that's just just think about that concert for second. It's mind blowing. We love we love personalization doesn't like personalization. Yeah, but at scale a lot of moving parts. This is in your guy's wheelhouse. Century irregulars have large scale customers globally. What does that mean to you? Because I had us had happened best by so much. Send out forty million emails means insane the personalization experience. What does it mean? >> Well, what? >> When I hear something needs to be a scale, you gotta break it down to be a simple as possible. You got to figure out how you make that something super complex and dumb it down to where you truly can't scale it where you can enable people quickly. Um and sometimes you think big and start small so often What we'LL do is we'LL have our customers say, if you want to do one toe, one personalization we need to be thinking about how we can create content quickly, how we can create art quickly, how we can go and and operationalized that globally. Right, Because many times you need be working around the clock. So for me, when I think of that scale, it's how do we turn those capabilities on around the globe quickly for our clients and basically, you need to break it down. >> It's a place you go, though customs saying, Let's let's pick some use cases. That's a beachhead. Get that figured out. Make sure it's not a lot of moving parts. >> Yeah, and against >> software, because experience engine things of that nature >> and sort of start small, you know? So I you know, I would light up some teams take some initial use cases, maybe think about how you know, what are some of those you know, initial user journeys that end in journey. We wantto prove out. And then let's operationalize those. And then we'LL build on top of that overtime. >> Be asked by the Adobe announcements. What's getting you excited here? The event with some of the hallway conversations and conversations after hours, a lot different events going on. What are you talking about? What's the top conversation that you're involved in >> for sure AP when you talk about the new experience platform that's coming out and everything around there to me, I think that's a game changer in the marketplace, and I think it's also critical. Certainly OD eyes all wrapped in there and all the data theater aspects. But the new experience platform that Adobe is investing, it is sort of where I think our customers are driving towards and what's required in order to meet the demands of how to secure this data. How to wrap some permissions around it, how to take. You know what we would consider a P I and pH. I like data on be able to use it and more of their tools knowing that we have the security of the integrity of >> our CM taxi. Your job with customer experience. Platform >> right. Impact. Our job is it unleashes all kinds of potential. Uh, you know, when we do you think about what were out there helping our customers solution, it opens the gamut for us to go and sort of drive those next generation experiences in a much more you know, I guess, uh, formidable way, you know, I can >> more capabilities. Oh, absolutely. You know, >> execution. Exactly. What was super complex for me to build now just became a lot easier. Because now I have a frame, Eric and a structure and a platform that they're enabling it >> has impact the interview. The customer. I mean, so the partner landscape because you guys have a lot of partnerships, just always a key. One house. You hear Adobe Summit. But, you know, you might have some of these little Miss Provider's come in with a nice tool chain. Say, Hey, you know what? I want to plug this in the biggest center interactive engine. You guys got a lot of global breath. You're gonna probably get some impact on the ecosystem. How do you see partners? Because if it's an enabling platform and should be in the building something so that's going to tell Sign what? What's your view on the partner ecosystem? >> What's the first thing I'LL say about that is I think we're in a unique position because if you look at the scale we have at Accenture, so although I'm in extension interactive, I'm very focused on that digital and building the best experience on Planet I have this huge engine behind me of Broderick Center that has these capabilities. I mean, you know what we're dreaming up around, how we're working with Microsoft and happy Well, guess what? We already do that, too, so I can bring a lot of those vendor relationships and experiences capabilities and bring him right in house quickly. And when I need to go out to market and partner. I have those avenues, and I can go bring that niche that >> Lego blocks together now. Yeah, big things, auto integrate. Just put it together and >> adobes continue to invest in their io. And that allows us to integrate and plug in these things a lot quicker than we ever have before. >> What's the biggest challenge? You see it that adobe and the markers and and market is having the marketplace because a lot of new tech, a lot of great capabilities. Now emergency. There's a shift happening. Yeah, you know what kind of been going slow? You know, yard by yard, moved the chains like a football analogy. But now big movements gonna have we see happening Way. Siya shift coming. Big wave of innovation. What's the challenge? >> That definitely two challenges. I think one, uh, it's just the speed, right. The speed in which the market is moving. And how do you keep up with that speed? And how do you continue to invest in your own people? T learn it. And then, too, I think this year amount of data like the fact that we can store all this data. We have more data coming in than we've ever had before. I mean, just think of what I owe tea is doing to our our landscape and all the data that's coming in from a night and now we can use that as a as a whole, another level of, ah, sophistication and our analytics and our segmentation. And that's a tough job, right? That's how marketers keep up with that. It's, uh, it's changing their landscape, for sure. But what about just kind of the point of view when they get competition that comes out of complete left field, right, that you know, uber and lift or the obviously examples to get way overused. But you know, the company's heir now beating against companies that weren't even in their radar before that were purpose built on moving at light speed to your point. How do you help those legacy? Those legacy guys kind of take the big league, take the big step, get to hyperspeed personalization? I mean one thing. You can't be complacent, I think if you are complacent, your you know, one of those small, innovative companies is going to slowly eat your lunch on. So I think, you know, take advantage of that mindset that those small, you know, incubation type companies or this moth and maybe even think about How do I How do I build that same type of innovation within my own halls? And how do I take a manager? How that rapid development of that rapid change and oftentimes we're helping our customers go in and bootstrap that right started like, Let's go inside. And let's build a little innovation hub inside your own organization to go and compete with them. Otherwise, you know you're going to see what you know, like the case studies you just >> referenced right, because they're in the driver's seat, for sure. I mean, I think this is great innovation. Question. That week that came up in our last segment with Jim Leyland was you know, he talked about the vendor dynamics. Yes, When you have the world floating upside down, things have changed. Sweet vendors lead and enable. Now you have abs dictating terms, the infrastructure. That's a cloud model. He made a good point, he said. You know, a lot of the transformational stuff is great, but then it fails during integration and pointing out that they get to a certain point. It just crashes, not crashes. That's my word. But he said thiss challenges. It wasn't specific on outcomes of of transmission, we said pretty much its struggles and usually doesn't happen. Yeah, how do you see that? Because with now, automation machine learning Now you have agility in a marketing landscape, not just marketing cloud. You got all kinds of other things. It's like this sales and marketing. And there is everything you have agility. How does the integration impacts and has the delivery impact that transformation >> Goal? What ends? You're exactly right in the fact that when organizations make a big investment and Toby Technologies, they typically have a lot of other investor. It's another technologies as well. And so how do you create agility where you gotta plug and play sometimes more than one, and I'm sure Jim talk to you about our customer experience, engine and the beauty of that right where we can go and really bring a framework to our customers and our clients. That allows us to take the best of all these of all these experiences all these platforms, I should say, to build the best in class experience, and that's something we absolutely bring to the table. It's a framework. We've proved it out. And frankly, we have a whole bunch of connectors that already exist. So from my mind, when I'm trying to get them to be agility, I bring that type of thing to the table to help them move fast. >> I think that's a successful tell sign we see with successful, then vendors and partners and integrators is that you guys took your core competency and rose software and he packaged it up to automate the heavy lifting that I mean, why wouldn't >> you do the >> way you >> are accustomed there, >> buddy? I mean, I walk in our customers and I'm like, Well, they have a little this. They have a little that, then they're goingto go on, make this massive invest in Adobe, and it's like they're not going to just discard to retire some of those things. So way attempt to solve that problem. >> That's a real differentiate. Congratulations. Jim was great on that final question for you. Look going forward. What do you excited about? What's on your road map? What's what's next for you is the next leg of the journey for global delivery. Well, more delivery, you >> know. Honestly, it's it's to continue to build off scale around all of our locations. So when you look at its Centre Interactive were, you know, obviously a big North American business. But we have businesses all over the globe, and it's to continue to create, you know, to meet our customer's demands as they expand global. That's how do we deliver local and how do we deliver around the clock for them? And so for me, it's about build those capabilities everywhere you go South America, Australia, New Zealand in Eastern Europe, and, uh, and making sure that we create the same delivery patterns and we leverage the same assets and accelerators like the customer experience engine in all those places. >> And one final question. As you look at the arena of the all the vendors competing, what's the what's the winning formula? What's the posture that you see that's a successful vendor as they integrate it in this kind of these journeys in these experiences, what successful makeup of a successful supplier to customers >> from this from a from a technology >> that you look at all the players got Microsoft big part of the job you got Amazon, you got all these. You know, Marsh, Martek Stack is littered with logo's consolidations happening. There's a lot of battles battles on the field right now. Players of fighting for their future. >> Well, honestly, I think those who are going to make it as simple and as easy to empower their people to use is gonna be the winner. And I think you're you're seeing that certainly at at Adobe. But there's a lot of other formidable vendors out there who are creating very simple techniques to go on like this up. The more you could empower a business person and a marketer to do self service, the bigger win you're gonna have >> and to your point about scale. Simplicity. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Great insight. Thank you so much to share in the commentary. Appreciate Todd Schwarz here on the Cube Global delivery lead for the Adobe account for a censure Interactive Stevens. One more day to coverage after this short break. I'm John free with Jeffrey will be right back

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Cubes live coverage here in Las Vegas for W twenty nineteen. I'm Jeffery Jeffery, my co host. Next guy's a demon Danza whose the global president of a censure interactive operations Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> So learning a lot about the interactive piece I sent you. Interactive. What is the Centre Interactive operations? What does that do? What's the function? >> Extension Interactive Operations is the manage service arm of Accenture Interactive. And together we design, build and activate scale the best experiences on the planet for our clients. What we were finding is you know, a lot of clients were very happy with our design lead creation of experiences, but they really wanted more help to activate, operate and scale those experiences across the world. I think scale ability is now becoming the crux of many of our CMO conversations. And so it was very important for us to build out Accenture Interactive operations to scale those experiences for our clients, >> given example of what it entails. And I'm just trying to follow it through. So, like, operations, meaning like Okay, that interactive team sets up everything they hated off to you and you guys wired together is in the cloud. Isn't analytics think us through how the operations workflow is? >> Yeah, well, except your interactive very much design and build the solution for clients. And absolutely, we then come into play to make sure that way Developer, man and machine operating model. So basically, we spoke marketing engines for clients that a data powered and also we design hub and spoke models for clients across the world to give them their speed, scale and agility that they now need in their coms. So very much, you know, we architect the right or model that is needed. The client that's the marketing operating model as well as the content operating model, so that we can effectively taken experience and scale it across multiple touchpoints seamlessly with huge brand consistency across every single consumer touch. >> So they stand out very quickly then, so that their goal is okay. Get it into market quickly, stand it up, get it going >> absolutely. And rapid. Standard is really so important because there's a speed in in sort of compression of go to market, and now clients can't have weeks and months of lag time between a creation off a product and the deployment of the broader on DH. So that's why we critically have come to the party with a very man and machine and data driven model. Teo, Give them that speed. So it really is from idea mediation, proof of concept, out to market. We truncated that whole supply chain and marketing supply chain quite significantly >> so that you talked about scale and global reach. But at the same time, your warrants personalization, right? So the challenge of personalization at scale is very different than just scale for scale sake. So how are you helping clients address that part of the equation? >> Well, first and foremost with any approach to hyper personalization, the way that we actually consume and segment the data is critical. So at its centre, interactive operations will play a key role in dealing with first, second and third party data off a client to be able to devise the right cohort groups that they need to effectively target in a world of hyper personalization that's directly related to their growth ambitions. Then we will make sure that the data actually feed the content creation and customization, so that the right message conversation experiences going out to the right client at the right time in the right way. And I think that, you know, we've really hone that for a lot of clients. BMW, Disney, Malia Hotels, G S, k, Et cetera, et cetera. And it's proving unbelievably successful. >> You guys are a huge partner of Adobe and partner of the Year, pretty much every year. Great presence globally. You've got to be excited when you look at the charts on yesterday's Kino when they lay out the platform because they're setting up exactly the kinds of mechanisms around data pipeline ing, semantic translations and then really time personal. I mean, they're building everything into a platform to make a data driven, and that's the hard part of all this. I mean, what you just laid out is a hugely complex story, and to do that quickly is huge task. >> Oh, absolutely. You >> gotta like what adobes doing now with their Platform >> I am loving water job he's doing, and they're making it easier. They are almost accelerating. Where now referring to is the platform ization of marketing on DH. You know, marketing technology is now circle thirty percent off the marketing budget. That's a lot, that's I mean, that's obviously the highest it's ever been. And it's only going to go one way. So now, to be able to actually set up designed the right marketing technology, leverage it fully Onda. Also, once you've got foundational tech like Adobe Toe, also build additional vertical bespoke technology onto that really starts to get clients too competitive. And so >> that's some of the challenges markers have because we've seen the evolution of the Internet infrastructure since their Web one dot oto whatever version you call it now. But in my mind, I just see this montage of this Martek stack that logo slides that comes out every year and it's Oh my God, it's like, huge. So So So the question is, has Martek failed to live up to his expectations? All these point solutions? Or is it just natural evolution that these things are kind of consolidating into kind of pillars of of technologies with more business conversations over the top? Because that's the question that way. Here, a lot from practitioners. Just look, I don't need another platform. I don't need another tool. I got tons of tool, got tons of platform options. I just want this stuff to work. Absolutely. How do you see this? Key challenges from marketers >> I think I think it's incredibly challenging, just challenging into your reference to the Loom Escape. I mean, the Loomascape has over six thousand Martech and adtech companies in it, and we're going to see an acceleration of that consolidation in that landscape. You're absolutely right. The point solutions are going quickly accelerate to an end to end solution. So everyone is a bit of musical chairs going on at the moment. With regards to the M in a landscape on DH, it's getting more acute, actually buy them by the week. So market is a very, very challenged still, to be able to procure the right technology to be able to also make sure that they're getting maximum utilization from that technology. Some of that technology is very, very expensive, so they have bought the licenses. But actually they don't necessarily have the skills, the talent, the capabilities to drive the technology effectively. It's almost like having a Ferrari but not having a driving licence. So we're helping clients to be able to properly drive the technology and to be able to also ascertain if they have the right technology in the first place, because the landscape is moving so quickly >> or the more the wrong technology and repurpose it and re skill. I mean, it's a huge operational challenge. Absolutely. Your operation comes in and this is This comes up a lot in our conversations. I love the new capability. I just wish I knew howto implement it >> and >> then operationalize it and staff around it so that everything's in my marketing mix and in agility way, not a waterfall kind of >> completely. And that's what we do in terms of our human and machine model. We look at the ad tech Martek stacks that we're building for clients. Make sure that they're truly proprietary, bespoke doing the job that they're intended to do in terms of marketing for growth and then literally we help clients maximize everything that they can get out of that technology and making sure that really data and analytics is driving the content creation, driving the content customization cause you're now in a world of algorithmic optimization when it comes to atomic content, lots and lots of little pieces of content that I needed to fire at loading loads of different cohort groups. We could take that all on and actually make it pretty painless for a client to do that across multiple countries. >> Thank you. What about from the other side of the equation? The receiver of all this micro targeted atomic for major consumer? This's so much stuff. I was like It's like it's like driving through a snowstorm with your headlights at night. You know, it's just like, how do you get through the tent? How did you get people's attention? How are you helping people get attention in this increasingly cluttered, busy and just, you know, over sensitized, you know, kind of inbound world in which we live as consumers? And it's one thing for me to see. I think of the poor B to B marketers. Oh my goodness, what a crazy challenge they have now. >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great question, and I think that now it's it's less about attention. Necessarily. It's more about relevance because if you manage to achieve hyper relevance in your communication, you know, customer first communication, then by default, you are going to get the right attention and you're going to get the right result from that experience, conversation, communication, etcetera, etcetera. So really, I think being able to really excel at hyper personalization is really what we're focused on now. And data is the answer to that. And data hand in hand with artificial intelligence and machine learning really gives us an unbelievable combination on puts hyper personalization on steroids. >> I'm gonna ask you on that point, cause content becomes a key part of the marketing mix at all at levels er known and all well paid all that good stuff. But content has is about data to because being relevant is also contextually aligned with targeted distribution of that of that that those audiences. So the question is we're seeing with our video's content drives a lot of community engagement. How are customs? Think about the role of community because as the users become part of their brand engine, this is now part of a new closed loop that's developing. How do you guys see that connecting? Because if you get the content right and you get the targeting through your operations, you then will they be able to put certain content in certain channels with the right data. That means the programming has to be relevant, which is another task. But if they get that right, the community engagement goes off the charts. How do you see the community part of developing? What is the brand marketers do after that? >> I think the community aspect is critically important, and it's hand in hand with the importance of first party data and everything that I mean, we really are gravitating towards a world of first party marketing activation. The first party data that clients hold is unbelievably potent, and there in lies your your the secrets of success to creating a highly engaged community. And, yes, we are taking a leadership role now in producing long and short form content. When it comes to making sure that it's laser focus to that particular Koval group, it has to be hyper relevant on DH. Absolutely, to your point, some of the community members want to create that content themselves. So we also play a part in whether it's the finer points of influence of marketing, making sure that we're helping thes stakeholders create the right content and then helping them distributed effectively and efficiently >> and then scoring users and reputation Relevant Reputation >> comes yes, because they become I mean, key influences in B to C and beater B to B are so important is when it as it pertains to the viral ity of the communication. So they're almost like channels, you know, the influences are almost like channels in off themselves, and they can actually, you know, put the communication on steroids if they are effective at there >> for the news. I think I get what you're saying. That the new formula is a collection of niches is the new reach number. It's a rather nice blast to the reaches. It's a collection of niches that are programmable, inexpressible >> absolutely. It's almost like the collection of cohort groups together gives you that mass communication. >> I'm curious kind of the take on softer some of the softer types of communications that content around, you know, mission. And we heard you know, sati and the keynote earlier today. Talking about mission and a lot of people are are really not so much concerned, but they care. They care about what the mission of the company is in some of these kind of social and, you know, not necessarily direct attributes of the product or direct benefits of using the product, but more of a private company, not necessarily product that they sell. How do you see that evolving in kind of the marketers tool kit and kind of the rising importance of that type of of engagement with community? >> Yeah, when we told took Teo client CM o's and CDO. Specifically, we talk about purpose as well as the product differentiation. I think in today's world, you have to have both on by purpose. You don't necessarily have to have a lofty purpose because not everyone can look at a lot of CPG clients. They can't have a lofty purpose, but they can be purposeful. They could be hyper relevant in your life, and that's what we try and attain and achieve. So I think it's very, very important reading a lot of work at the moment, with clients almost stepping back and saying, Well, what business are you actually in? What is your raison Detrol? What is your purpose in life and how do we amplify that then through all forms of communication? Because then once you've got that sussed. You really do have the the critical ingredients off designing, creating the best experiences on the planet and activating them. >> Transparency becomes a big part of the user trust equation as well as a user experience and relevance. Because of your transparent, they want to see the day that this becomes a whole new dynamic. >> Transparency is critical because anyone can find out anything in two minutes, you know, on the interweb. So you know, you have to. Transparency is not trust. Transparency is not >> enough. All right, so I gotta ask you about the conflict between innovation and regulation and market. A name is because we've seen innovation always run hard and fast, and then regulation tries to catch up and kind of fit in first party date. It's super important as this new shift digital was happening where it's kind of moving from the old, you know, email blast to the old communications static channels to more dynamic, You starting to see the rise of distribution platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, among other zillion other third party AP. I driven platform. They're all having third party data. So how do you How does the customer your customer brands balance The need for first party information that they have and or are now putting their content out in these channels is a huge thing because not everyone has opened data. So how do you guys review that trend? And how early is it? What needs to be done? Is it okay? >> Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, the clients that do have very rich first party data, particularly financial clients, telco clients, etcetera. We really helped them amplify that first party data to help them activate with clients that don't necessarily have rich first parties ater like a lot of CPG clients, we help them build that first party data. And that's also sometimes where the purpose comes in on the community building comes in because when you get those two things, you know when you hone those two things, you can actually start to build a community, and then you can start to build Richard first party data so that we can help clients activate off of that third party data. We're getting a little bit more forensic with regards to whether or not that third party data is truly additive. And sometimes it's the smaller third party verticals specific to travel, etcetera, farmer, et cetera, et cetera. Where the third party data is actually most potent. So it's important. Teo. Almost look att depth more than bread when it comes to you >> and blending the data together. >> Exactly. But it has to be additive because there are some third party data sources which aren't truly additive toe activation. Therefore, we can discard them. >> Nikki. Great content. You're amazing. Insights are broad and great. Really relevant. Thank you for sharing data here on the Q. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me. It's been fun. >> Live coverage here, too, Joe be summat. Twenty nineteen. I'm Jeffery, Jeff Frick, Dave Tune from or day to coverage after this short break.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by Adobe. >> Hello and welcome back to the keeps. Live coverage in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John for Jeffrey from the Cube. Our next guest, Bradley Jenkins, was the marketing CEO and vice president. Met Life, part of the global technology and operations group. Innovative title. But thank you, >> Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. >> So we're here to do the summit. A lot of things are happening. It's really interesting because you have a convergence of two worlds and it looks like a cloud world. It's it's it's the creative cloud. It's the experience Cloud now called The whole World shares a lot of devil's mindset in there. Got a platform? The whole world's changed. Now marketing has a full blown class, not just marketing class, so it's a whole system. So as a marketing seo, what does that mean? Is now a new role emerging in organizations? Is this where we're team? >> I think it's a It's an emerging role. I think it's one of those things where in the in the market and technology space, the lines are blurring, and part of the role of people like me are the ones you could be the bridge makers between the two functions and bring in products like we see all around us here today. Cloud based Solutions How do we activate marketing tactics faster, quicker on. Then combine things like experiences with tools and technologies in different ways. I think it's a specialty skill, and it's coming out now and emerging >> well. One of the patterns is that marketing departments that have a technical and also a relationship seems to be more agile, transformed faster. This seems to be the same thing you guys are looking at right? >> Exactly. It's all about speed to market. So agility is this one co looking and combining everything from creative to the developers, all in one Teo product resource person all the wine and we get in and try to solve business problems. Fastest possible. But you're almost kind of a personification of the story we hear all the time, which is? CEOs get a seat at the table right now. They're no longer just keeping the lights on in the system's lit. But it's a fundamental way the company goes the business of fundamental way the company interact with their customers. So to actually put a marketing CEO title. That's a pretty unique thing I don't think we've ever had one on. So you come at it, no doubt about it. I'm here about customer engagement, customer experience, not keeping the light on. That's right. That's right. First, one side, like a unicorn. >> How's it been? So tell us some of the things you do. I love how you're part of a global technology and operations group. Noticed the word operations and tech together again, back to this cloud theme of Dev ops, which changed the game on the world >> it has. >> So we're seeing that same thing happening playing out in the creative market, whether it's content for here, same thing. Explain some of the things you're doing. >> It's the same thing, and it is Everything's very cloud based today, obviously. So everything from building out content, platforms and services and kind of services framework switch, which is which is key to what what we want to do but also campaign and analytics and, uh, you know, social and what the emerging capabilities are in social. How do we tie all those together but do in a way, we're capturing data and insights across all of our channels in a more creative, quicker way, then activating that across new new experiences. >> You know, Bradley, one thing I wanted to ask you, And I'm glad you came on because I've been really kind of riffing on this idea and trying to get a date in actual year kind of a before cloud after cloud demarcation line because, you know, we're in Silicon Valley. We cover a lot of startups and literally ones go big or go home is kind of the mantra. But if you were born before Amazon, you're pretty much either aren't around or got acquired. If you're born after Amazon, where clouds scale and all this stuff happened, you tend to thrive in a whole new kind of shift. So in Martek, which is heavily funded, sector on the ecosystem map of pure play applications was pretty dense. >> Is very dense. Yeah. >> Did that live up to its name? Did it shift and shape? What's your thoughts on that mark Tech landscape could? Certainly, it's relevant when you're marking CEO. You want to put technology in place. Has the platform shifted? What's that? What's going on? Tell us. >> Yeah. So you know, I think has it lived up to his name? Uh, yes, and it's created challenges that the same thing at the same time. So what is still in the Martek landscape is seventeen thousand or whatever tens of thousands of products. Now Mr Wescott fingers latest one shows every year it doubles or quadruples in there. And I think one of the biggest challenges we have now is just navigating, never getting the landscape, but then be able to pick out and say, Here are the five things and you focus on Here is how I'm going to tie them together and in great demand. And there's a lot of noise and you have to break through a lot of that to build a craft. These solutions together. So in a lot of ways, I think it's lived up, Uh, a lot of ways. I think it's create a lot of new challenges that things like markets he has you to think about. Be aware of the bread, the people that are out there. But that's just the capabilities. How do you stitch them together and you become more of a weaver? Then thin a specific domain >> class early adopter proves the model. And now reality as operational izing things becomes clear. The wheat from the chaff, as they say, kind of get figured out >> exactly friendly. I want to get your kind of thoughts on a CZ. The relationship between the company and the customer has shifted from sitting down with an agent or maybe talking to it. Agent on the phone to really Elektronik means how you've been able to kind of continue a certain type of brand experience. And I'm also just curious your feedback on the theme here where it's not really the transaction. It's the experience of which the transaction is a piece of How are you seeing that play out in the way that you guys interact with your customers? Yeah, and I think for us we're in evolving state to we have agencies and brokers that we worked through, and so it's a bit of the model in some cases, in some cases it turns, and we're about to see targeting >> B to B >> group customers as an example, and so the experience is very a bit so for us, it's experience of the customer, and how do we service some? How do we treat them. What's the purchasing servicing capabilities look like? What's our customer service look like? But also the experience of agents and brokers. And are we providing the right service and products to them to build equipped them to go help in resell product? So we look at it from a couple different angles and depends a lot on context and where we're operating in product and servicing products at Is it easy to maintain kind of the voice of the brand, if you will, through these alternate channels or, you know, how do you kind of stay true to the brand? Yet go to market through these. He's a myriad of channels. Yeah, it's no Isaac, a question that we're really working through the same kind of things now of what can we What can we help provide agents and brokers with, and that helps with our brand? Our friend promised up. Some sell better. That it's it's a work in progress, but technical challenge? Yeah, I don't >> really have >> all the answers. >> Take a minute to explain the MetLife transformation. What you guys have done. Where are you now? In the jury? Your journey will be customer. You're here at their event. Where are you on that Progress bar? How far along are you? It seems to be a theme of transforming. Continue to transform is what successful company doing. Our iterating are raising the bar. Whatever term used where you guys at, Can you take us through? >> Yeah. So a few years ago, we we refreshed our enterprise strategy. We placed a customer in digital on data at the center of our enterprise strategy. And we have pillars around different transformation aspects that we're working on everything from customer service too. Right? Products simplifying our product messaging the way we talked about product specially in insurance can be complicated. And so we're trying to get a little a little more concise and clear and package things differently. But But at the core, our strategy now is placing digital placing diddle data at the center of it. Uh and then how do we enact data and new and different ways Everything from not only knowing customers, but how do we use data to great better and smarter products or even the risk different products that we have waken me price competitive in certain market areas. >> So Data's lifeblood of your transformation. It is. What's the strategy? How you guys enabling that internally? What some of the results will take us through experiences, zealously numbers. But I'm sure it's helping. If you do it right. It's challenging, though it's not easy. >> It is. Yeah, it's challenging, and it will take a while to sort it out. So we'LL say we've solved everything. Uh, but But I think we look at a few different things. What one is knowing the customer? And so you know, we're investing heavily and try and doing things like customer profile and a customer. Three sixty. Whatever you want to call it different in different, different areas. Uh, but how do we know them? And then how do we then act? There's the data's insights into different channels. So we've had a lot of a lot of good successes in there, in particular markets on creating more engaging experiences and lifting customer retention and loyalty. So we have good, good insights there. We're planets in different areas, so things like we go to bid for new products and or new new customers around a new product area. What can we do it for our pricing models on. How do we love its data around Where is geographic or whatever it might be? Or demographics and fly it to be more price competitive? And we're starting to see a lot of fruition there and how it gets applied. Tto win New business >> One of the things that we've been talking about on the Q through got a lot of events, and the theme that comes up all the time when you have these new shifts is new. Things are emerging. New capabilities, different economic points, scales different. So all good. Now the hard part is making it work. Operationalize ing Something new is a huge challenge. It is. Did you share your view on that? And reaction to that because this is seems to be not about the tech about either skills, gaps or culture gap. There's a lot of things in the way of operational izing, something new. What's what people do to operationalize something? >> Yeah, no, it's a good question. I'm glad you brought it up because that's actually one of the things that I have a caper. A lot is a lot of times we lead with the tech and then we place it And then we say, Well, now what? And then everything you know is what it comes to a standstill. And, yeah, you have to leave with people. Process so again in for a transformation, understand exactly what it is you're trying to solve. How are you going to solve it afterwards? Do you have the skill sets and place to do it and then follow up with the tech? And then I think a lot of a lot of companies do a little bit reverse where they go in acquiring, like we're going to solve this and bring the cheque in and in your little literally left standing at the end of day of How do you have the operational ises? So something we focus on a lot is it is the people process piece of enablement training, the skills that are required. How do you turn it into a machine after you bring the tech in to really start pumping up? Whether it's a growth objective or call status, I've never where the object it might be. But you have to you have to almost produce this into ah life machine of its own that cannon live and breathe after you bring the second. >> What should more marketing CEOs as it becomes a price? I think it will be. In my opinion, I think it will be a roll because it's really critical because of the opportunity. What should they be doing? That's this New persona evolves. You're pioneering it. What is the job function? What does it do in your opinion? Has this take shape? >> Yeah, I think Number one. Learn the business. And I think you have to speak the same language. And that's one of the biggest challenges translating so different languages across different groups. In the first thing, any market so you could do is go learn the business, speak the same language, then what company you know. We're in insurance company and a risk management companies. So understanding, finance, understanding, mark objectives. Your customer detectives is key and then figure out how to start mapping the solutions in. But, yeah, I think it's it's It's a fridge, a role. We have to be able to be a navigator in away across solution options, but always in context of understand the business and how you confessed, apply, and in a specific way, >> Data wrangler of course, because you're wrangling a lot >> of data. If I don't have a lot of intersection with, you know, kind of actuarial side of the house, which is, you know, kind of always been data driven, right since the early earliest days. But I mean, are you seeing you know, kind of that side of the house? Kayla, you know, can we get we get some of these new tools? Could we get some of these kind of new ways to approach the data problem than we historically did? I think now, now? Yes. I think it has been an evolution. I think in the early days of data, it was a bit more of a scary thing. And so I feel like we're, you know, as advocates in the sea of space that we were pushing a little more than, you know, being pulled in. And I think I think lately in the last couple of years. But I know at least until we've seen a shift of demand side of requests coming in, saying we need to partner way ideas of how to accelerate and be competitive, which is great. Now it's almost become a supply demand trick. Where you just can't keep up. Because the level of segmentation on kind of classy the insurance, you know, kind of breakdown is really high, right? Sex age, you know, a couple other factors. But you know, now that the amount of data that's available, that amount of real time data, it's available on changing, they've got to be going bananas over on that side. >> You know, one of the things that we've been seeing on the side again. I want to bring a question in the marking CEO piece is on. We've had many CEOs talk about this on the Cuba and direct interviews is they've outsourced everything, and they really had no core competency, had all the big size running stuff you had global outsourcing development. And as cloud became important, they had the build applications internally, didn't have the skills, so they had to quickly reset and rebuild and in house capability. And the result of that is ongoing and seen. The ones who've done that well with cloud are doing great. They still use outsourced off. Now, on the marketing side, you saw that same thing happen where agencies run everything. The agency does this, you got the creative agency, you got a PR firm, you all these things going on and some say that marketing has been outsource a lot. And so the question is, what mix of in house skill, an agency relationships? Because now you're gonna see that application developer. No problem. But core competency becomes a super important question. Yeah, And how are you funding it And what should be in house on what should be outsourced. >> Yeah. Yeah, and we have We're going to the same evolution. We had a position than a few years ago where it was almost entirely outsourced, and we in sourced a bunch of it. And now we're right sizing what's unsourced and not in sources. So I think one is Think about, uh, what your differentiation is. And how do you want to be competitively different competitively and having create advantage and then in source those things. And then you had to find a way. That's one thing. I think every year you talk to Rick Wright size and reassess. And so for us, we insourced a lot of things around. Um, first around, build side, so platforms being cloud. But then how do you enact and activate them? So we've brought some of those inside internally on we started marrying those up with creativity. This is just the last words of the great, But we were married them up and get these, uh, you know, more agile lean teams cross blended skill sets and go on, go to market quicker with new experiences. I think over time we'LL see a start and sourcing more of the agency side, maybe shedding some of the you know, the left side as we started becoming more pattern base and whatnot. So I think it's one of those things that you evolve every year as the right size. But the key is trying to tie it back to you. How do you wantto create differentiation? What, you're competitive advantage and then make sure that you have that internal first and foremost. And don't outsource here, your smarts to >> another. I think the key point is by re factoring or Ria's re sizing. That's the interest generation that you get with cloud and scale. If you don't do that, scale can also hurt. You >> can yeah, yeah, >> comes come back and impression. It's right, really. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate the insights from great to hear from Practitioner Love the new child. I think it's a game changer. I think it's going to be a standard final question to end the segment learnings over the over the past couple of years. What some key learnings that you take away from the process that you're going to carry forward. >> Yeah, I think one one is as a company being being a blend roll between marketing the technology. One is, uh, be willing to change and adapt and be willing to bring the rest of the company with you could You can't do everything yourself. So I think you have to be a change agent for the company. I figure out that that everybody is in the journey with you and then how do you create that scale to get the get the mass moving? Because it takes it takes a village thing. Get things done. >> Bradley. Jake is making history on the Cuba's, the first marketing CIA we've interviewed super excited, great insights. This is going to be a position we think's going around for a while, of course. The Cube coverage here on Adobe Summit. Jeffery, Jeffery Thanks for watching Stay with us from or Day one of two day coverage here in Las Vegas. After this short break

>> Live from Orlando, Florida It's the Cube covering Enterprise Connect twenty nineteen. Brought to you by five nine. >> Hello from Orlando, Florida At least Martin was soon met a man, and the Cube was here for day. Teo of Enterprise Connect twenty nineteen. We're excited to welcome to the Cube for the first time. John Hernandez, the CEO of Intelligent John. It's great to have you on the program >> for having me, >> So give our viewers a little bit of an overview. I love the name sell agent as a market average. Fantastic. I get the contacts. Tell us a little bit about intelligent. You guys have been around for a long time. What is it that you do and your relation to enterprise communication? >> Absolutely so at the heart of it. The company started as a CR M company, and then in two thousand five, when sales force was just dominated, the C R M space, the company decided to pivot to marketing. And so the data has been the core of the platform since the beginning of the company that allows us to have so much intelligence of not only what we're marketing to the individuals, because at the end of the day. It's a marketing cloud. Application is we also have all the transactions, every hotel that's been booked, every grocery that's been purchased in the database. So we have so much insight on that consumer weaken, then serve up important ai ai capabilities like, What's the right offer? What's the right time? What's the right day and what's the right channel? My daughters on Instagram. I'ma text guy. You're an email guy that makes it all come to a life of trying to drive products and services to consumers. >> Yeah, I love that. Because you're right. It's a different people. You need to communicate different ways. You know, we've been talking at this show with contact center people. It's like Omni Channel well, voices still super important in the contact center. You know, you have any general trends you can share without, says Oh, you know what's the best way that you know what's working? What, totally failing a za >> middle aged contact center guy myself. I've been in call centre since ninety five and development of um so no, the space. Really well, So some people have been asking, what's a marketing cloud company doing it. Enterprise connect right? The reality is marketing, sales and service are starting to converge in all companies, right? The marketing department can't be in a silo anymore of driving offers to consumers without the inside sales people or the service people knowing what's going on. So we're here working with folks like Five Nines Joint customers success where we're driving campaigns and offers to consumers. And when they come to the Web sage or they call the call center or they send an email to the company. Five nines is catching that that that stuff coming in. But now we give them context. I'LL give an example. Bill dot com is a joint customer of five nines and ourselves. Five nines Does the call center we do. So they do the service and sales departments. We do the marketing, so we're pushing out offers that air personalized ifit's a contractor. They get a different few. If it's a consumer doing a bathroom remodel, they get a different view. And so it's all personalized him Now when they come to build dot com, five nines catches it and guess what? We can apply a eye on top of it to help the humans because we look at it and say, Hey, is it a contractor looking at a bathtub? That's probably a bathroom remodel. Let's get that to our highest and sales person. Like if it's a consumer looking for a faucet replacement, just satisfy that on e commerce, right? So break beautiful handshake between five nines and us, >> and that relevance is absolutely essential, as we are all consumers every day, so easy to buy things from wherever we are, right. But we also want to make sure that what we're getting because retargeting is so popular, were getting ads all the time, and it has to be relevant. So one of the things about relevance that kind of piqued my interest that you said, is a is a scene that stew and I heard yesterday, and that is that the contact center and marketing are often not communicating, and you think of how is the contact center? How did they have the content to be able to deliver it to your daughter on instagram you through text to through phone what you're seeing from a trends perspective about marketing and really as an enabler of the contact Center >> Yeah, yeah, you know, sales and service has always been closely connected, but marketing's always been off on the side, And why we're seeing a growing trend is this whole convergence of consumer experience. All CX experience, right? Everybody's talking about it, but the reality is tough to do. And so what we see happening is the CMO, or the marketing department is typically leading the charge on the strategy. But it's the sales service and departments that are buying the tech, so making sure those things are coming together to drive that relevancy is so important. Other example between us here is a is a company called Cool Blue Cool Blue is an online electronics reseller to consumers, and they saw a massive problem with returns. So we looked at the data with him, said, You know, the source of the prompt seems to be that consumer doesn't know to what to do with that product. You just sold them. So we put into an email campaign in a text campaign, an embedded video that allows them to just when that product arrives to the home they get an email with. That video dropped thirty percent on reduction of of returns Massive r a y for that customer. Well, now you got a call center agents sitting idle, right, waiting to take calls. But they're not coming now for returns. So I guess what they did. We worked again with the call center guys on the inside sales team. Put a campaign on the web site identifying things that you would be interested in and created up sells the biggest one. That was a success. Mobile plans. So we have the ability to say, Put in your phone number and your name, and we guarantee we'LL call you in thirty seconds. Put it into their outbound dialer and five nines. Boom. They called twenty eight percent conversion of >> mobile plans. Yeah, love that. When you talk about, you know, how do we reduce the load on the workload? But they know. What do I do with the work force? Do I have to retrain them? Do I have to move them? One of the big themes that the show here is like OK, aye, aye is coming, you know. Okay, Cloud is here, but a I is coming. Doesn't mean that we're getting rid of people, but it might change some of those environment. Believe there's some aye aye in your platform. Tell us a little bit about how that fits into. >> Absolutely, It's called cell agent Cortex, and it does four things extremely well. So instead of going wide and broad like a Watson type thing where you have a lot of serves, its tune it it is purpose built out of the box to do for keep things. What's the right offer to present what's the right time, day and channel of choice so that you're getting that relevance in there Now when the customer calls the calls that are sends an email or our calls the sales department, making sure that that offer comes up on the agent desktop so they know. Hey, this is what John was just offered, and that's what he's calling about. Don't talk about anything else. Close the deal right? That's the beauty of it. And to the consumer, it's relevant in the timing that matters that's so critical. >> Time is real time communications is key, and we expect that as consumers are more and more and more in power, we have everything and we're demanding, but I want to be able to transact this or find out information on whatever channel that I want, and I want the conversation to be continued. I don't want to have to start over from scratch, >> Isn't that the worst >> is you and I were talking yesterday about one of my recent calls, and it was like ground hog day. Um, and the first thing I think I'm gonna go to Twitter and escalate or miniature. So I want to get your opinion. And I love when you talk about customers with actual business outcomes and metrics that you guys, and especially with your partnership with five nine are delivering. Talk to us about the importance of bringing in customers in terms of development of technology, the A and the partnership with five. Where are those customers at your decision making table? >> Absolutely. So we get the wisdom of the crowds right when we're trying to know where the market's going, what's what's the next digital channel that we haven't even thought of yet? Right? And it comes from the marketers and inside sales, VPs and the service folks. And so we have a board of advisers of clients. We also have partners like five nines. We have marketing agencies, and all of that wisdom comes in to help us in our road map. So we have a backlog of things we want to do. They help us prior ties to make sure we're staying on top of the market trends. And the CX topic of the integration here is one of those things that emerged from our customer. So John, one of >> things we've been poking at is I want to learn from the crowd, but I'm worried about that. I don't want my competitors getting advantage based on, you know, I did something a little better. How do you manage that dynamic of you know? There's privacy. There's competitive advantages >> in most cases, usually rings true all the time. First of all, they're everybody's under India, but you know, that's only as good as the signature on it in some cases. But you make sure and have different organizations that are in different verticals, so there isn't really a lot of commonality, so you get differences of opinion, which is a good thing. But then you're not getting a telecom provider telling a retail shop that's not going to have a summer thanks so that you don't get that overlap. But typically the customers we see are very open and forthcoming because they want to advance their platform to be reflective of their customer base. >> And they have to to stay competitive. Italy One of the themes that came up today a little bit in the keynote panel was talking about internal adoption of tools that's obviously essential for a company to be able to be successful in tow. Have a stellar contact center. What are some of the as you have been around with cell agent for a long time? Teligent has for a long time. What are some of the trends that you're seeing in terms of customers embracing? We have to move quickly. Way have tio figure out what digital transformation means to us, because we've got to make sure that our internal teams who are gonna have the data to make the right decision on the offer's understand and embrace this technology. >> Yes, totally. And so you think about the call center right inside. Sensors, voices, the foundation technology, and it's never going away. I don't care what anybody says, but it doesn't mean you can ignore the email in the chat and all the other things. Same in the marketing world, Email has been the foundation of marketing for a long time, but the digital channels are exploding. And again, my daughters on Instagram, she she's not reading email, so you've got to be relevant in that moment. So internally, we have a diverse workforce that come from the call centre world from the Martek world, different generations. So that way we have the different wisdom of how to use our own tools. Our own platform communicates with all our partners and our customers to make sure we're keeping them up to date with newsletters and >> information. Judge on one of things have been really interesting to watch the maturation last few years is the changing role the CMO, yeah, and especially how digital is impacting them. So I've talked to some C M O's that are like Well, you know, I'm choosing which APS all my field using and how they're involved. The role between the CMO and the CEO goes through back and forth there. You know, a couple of years ago, one of the big analyst from like all the CEOs out of a job, you know, lines of business. They're going to run everything. Well, I think CEOs, they're still gonna have a job for a while, but I'd love to get your viewpoint on CMO digital engagement with tea. And it >> s so what we're seeing more and more of a trend now is the C. M. O. And the marketing department is kind of starting the CX strategy, right? They look at the whole customer life cycle and how we're going to take that on. But they're quickly realizing they can't pull it off without sales service and it. And in most cases, the buy is actually coming from it for the tech stack, the business consulting going to the market tears. And you've got to create that ecosystem of making sure that everybody has relevance in the by decision and all of their objectives, or being met against their key metrics. >> Yeah, Thie. Other thing. Just the role of data. I mean, we've been to Chief Data's officer events, you know? How does how does this play in kind of broader data initiatives inside a customer's >> dolly? It is all about relevance at the time and moment of need, right? You only have that one moment, and what we see is consumers. But your consumer had on. If you have a great experience with your bank and then you go to you, go to your insurance company, have a battle. You're expecting that same experience. Otherwise you're going to defect and go somewhere else. That happens everywhere all the time. So the date is critical to understand how things were going. So we have an integration where in the call center, we can get the NPS score. The Net promoter score. So was it an angry customer where they upset? Did they not like it and return something that's a low score? Takes them out of the marketing campaigns. The worst thing you could do is try and sell him something when they're angry. In the past, you had to hunt for that data to try and manually pull him out. Now it's a fully automated the aye aye, on top of that, and the integration with it's so simple you can pull him out, and when the MPs score goes back up, put him back in. But don't sell him something. Sentiment Knowledge article engaged with them before you try Start selling them again, right? >> Because Turness so easy to do as you mentioned where we have so many choices for whatever. But of course, don't market to me if I'm not happy about this in the NPS score is low. So imagine Net negative Turn and P s. You talked about some of the key metrics that talk about changing role of this GMO marketing is now such a science. Talk to us about how intelligent and five men can help really dramatically reduce that turn and really drive out the dialogue customer lifetime value. >> It all comes down to the data at our disposal and using it in the appropriate time. Right? So, for instance, if we're marketing something to them like a grocery chain marketing people, delivery services, things like that all the things in the grocery store, if they call the call center instead of doing e commerce to try and buy, they need to know what this customer normally buys. So in the databases, every transaction they've ever made in that grocery store put it up on the screen for the agents of the agent can help him through that, or if they had a wrong delivery to the wrong address. Give them the right address at their disposal, don't have them search for things, bring it to their forefront of making sure it happens. And even more important, is a real time engagement. So keeping on that read that retail grocery store as you're walking through the aisles there. It's very easy to see where you're in. The girls start through mobile triangulation through sensors in the store and make real time offers high margin product. Sell that product to that consumer. Send them a coupon in a text or in mountain mobile app. Push. Those types of things are very simple tools that between their technology, five nines and us, we create that CX experience, which is phenomenal. >> Awesome, John. Well, phenomenal job joining Stuart be on the Cube. We thank you so much for your time and talking to us about intelligent in what you're doing this five minute how you're really enabling that phenomenal cx >> Beautiful. I love it. Thanks for the invite >> or Suman a man. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cue

>> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here, with theCUBE. We're at the Accenture Technology Vision 2018, it's actually the preview event, a couple of days before the report comes out. We came last year, it's really Accenture querying all their customers and partners, as to what are the hot topics for 2018? We're excited to have a return, from Accenture Labs, he's Marc Carrel-Billiard, the Global Lead for Accenture Labs. Last we saw you at the 30th anniversary. So, Marc, great to see you. >> Great to see you too, very happy to be here. >> Absolutely, and we saw you a year ago at this event as well. So, as you look at this Vision compared to last year's Vision, what really jumps out at you as being so different? >> I think what really jumps is just the fact that what we say here is that, you remember last year, it was all about technology for people, technology by people. What we see is that we move forward into, not just technology for people, by people, but how technology basically is shaping the society. And what people, basically I mean, like technology is changing their life, the way they work and everything. What we say to all this technology is that they're going to be a major impact in the society itself, and then companies need to work with people, need to work with society basically to change, basically, the new models. What we say also is that, something which is very important is that there's a transparency that needs to be brought out by this technology. I mean, it's like if you look at companies and everything they will have to build a social contract with these people. Bring in the technology. It's a two-way street now. >> Right, right. >> Like, you build a lot of technology, and people adopt this technology, and then need to bring back feedback. So what are you going to do about it? And it's not going to be about selling products, selling services, but building partnership. Partnership with the people, partnership to the society that you're going to build around them. That's very important. >> But it's kind of weird, because it's kind of bifurcated. On one hand, there's a personal level of connection that you've never had before. On the other hand, we're trying to automate, with software and data, as many processes as we can, which we've seen in Martek, probably on the cutting edge of that. And that sometimes can cause issues. So we're kind of bifurcating. Automate as much as you can, on the other hand, there's a personal touch and trust and a relationship that I never had before. >> I love this discussion, because I'll tell you this, I completely agree. But I think that people need to recognize that artificial intelligence, we've made tons of progress there. And you remember, we had so many winters along the way and everything. I think there will still be winters for artificial intelligence. Machines can do things very very well. >> Jeff: Right. >> But they still can't do what people can do. You know, for example, common sense learning. It's very difficult to explain to a machine what is common sense learning. You know what is common sense. For example, if I would like to build a robot that comes in your office, and picks, for example, a cup of coffee, and decide whether they want to throw it in the bin or basically reserve it for you, it's very difficult. You need to weigh the cup of coffee. You need to understand if it's warm or not warm. I mean, there's so many things that come to play. A robot would not be able to do that. You can do that, even your kids could do that. >> Pretty interesting. >> I know! >> So there's like five big things, I want to jump into a couple with you. One is, and you guys have twisted kind of common phrases-- >> We did, yeah >> A little bit of Accenture branding, of course, right? So one of them is the Internet of Thinking. So rather than the Internet of Things, which is very popular, and then, of course, we hear about the industrial Internet of Things. You talked about the Internet of Thinking. What do you mean by that? >> Okay, so Internet of Thinking is all about to recognize that every product in the world today will be very intelligent. We talk about artificial intelligence. We're baking the intelligence into systems. They all have matched learning, they all learn about what you're doing. So what we need to do is that, when we're going to build a new environment and everything, we need to understand exactly where all the processing power for this intelligence going to be sitting. Is it going to be, for example, if you have to reinvent the car of the future, where it's going to be driverless. You need to re-think about the cockpit of the future and the experience. There needs to be a lot of matched learning, intelligence, to understand exactly how they want to interact with you. Should sudoers sudo-vise? To recognizing your face when you're frowning, and stuff like that. I mean there's going to be so many things, so there's lot of processing power to put. Where do you put all this processing power? In the chip in the car? >> Right. >> Do you want to split it between the chip in the car and some other chip in the cloud? Where do you put all the data related to what you're going to be doing in this car? You want to look at all these data only in the platform in the car or you want to put a little bit in the cloud so you're going to be able to crunch all the data? You going to be sitting in a seat. American people spend on average, 500 hours per year in the car. Can you imagine what we can do there? Imagine we have sensors in the seats. We're going to be able to collect a lot of data about your wellness your well-being and everything. We want to make you more healthy. What are we going to do with all this data? Are we going to crunch the data basically in the car? Or in the cloud? So, what we want to say is that the Internet of Things is going to evolve to Internet of Thinking because we're going to have to be smarter. Not only to implement smart product in the car or something else, but to decide about our fixture. Where are we going to put all that stuff? Which process are we going to use? CPU, FPGA, GPU, even quantum computing? People need to think about where they're going to put the architecture. What type of flavor of architecture they want to have. All these things need to come into play. >> I know, I know! >> Marc we could go and go and go, unfortunately we're getting the hook, they're going to start their program so maybe we'll get you back after the program. >> Sure. >> Thanks for taking a few minutes, they're going to start the program behind us. I'm Jeff Frick, he's Marc, you're watching theCUBE at the Accenture Technology Vision 2018. We'll be right back after the presentation. >> Alright, sure. >> Thanks Marc. Alright, welcome back everybody! We are still the Accenture Tech Vision 2018 free event, the autonomous band is playing, very loudly. But it's good. So we've got Marc back, Marc Carrel-Billiard, and again he is Accenture Labs' Global Lead and he is also all on top of Extended Reality. >> Extended Reality. >> So Marc, we could talk about OR, VR, AR. >> Optics, olfactives, everything. >> Now it's ER? >> That's right. >> Extended reality. >> Extended reality's VR, I mean it's like, I think it takes every type of sensors or immersion, feeling and everything you can have because it's all about combinatory effect. If I combine the augmented reality with the audio, as well with the smell, as well as with the touch then you feel that something is happening. In fact-- >> How long until you just pass all the sensors and just go right to the wires? That's what I'm waiting for. (laughing) These things are not built to look at googles, right? >> I know, I know, I know. But it's coming. >> It's coming but what's interesting though, you guys put a play on it about distance. >> Marc: That's right. >> You guys are, you're positioning this as really a way to break down distance. >> Absolutely, I mean-- >> Jeff: How does that work? >> Well, we call that the end of distance because I think the feeling that we have is that what you're going to be doing is that, you know what I mean it's always the same stuff that you're looking for talent. You're looking for skill. You're looking for people. You're looking for information. Here. Where it's out there. How how are you going to bridge that? How are you going to reduce the distance? To bring people to you, to bring the skills you need, to build the information you need. Extended reality, virtual reality, that can help you out to do that. I'll give you an example, Komatsu, it's a Japanese company. >> Big tractors and things. >> That's right, big tractors and everything. Sometimes, I mean it's a lot of investment and everything, you want to try them out, you want to test them, but it's snowing, it's pouring, it's raining. You're not going to do it. What are you going to do? Why, you're going to use the vehicle a bit in virtual >> They're all autonomous though, and they all drive themselves around. >> But not now, there's some not there. But eventually you can use that in your office. You're going to be training in your office and when it stops raining, basically you're going to be there and you're going to be able to drive that and you're going to be able to use them. We see that in the oil and gas industry. We are building very complex platforms. It takes 10 years to build them, maybe less. The question is that, do you want to wait for five years, 10 years until the platform is delivered, to start training your people? No. I'm going to bring basically that to them directly. It's not only end of distance, it's end of time. I can reduce the time that this stuff is delivered, virtually, to train the people onboard and when they're going to be there. So they're going to be using virtual reality, to be trained on the platform, and then when they're going to be on the platform, they know how it works. But even more, then you go to augmented reality, When they can do maintenance on equipment by augmenting information, to make them more efficient. >> So what's the killer app going to be? Is it a killer app problem? Is it a hardware problem, right, we're still wearing the clunky goggles. What's the breakthrough? >> So the breakthrough is really new devices because right now, if you look at the market today in AR, VR, we're talking about $14 billion, one-four. The billion dollars-- >> Today? >> Yeah, today. Which is a lot. >> Yeah, it's a real number. >> But most of it is on the devices. Most of it is on gaming devices. You know, the stuff that you find on Xbox, the stuff that you find on the PlayStation, very consumer-driven. The big business is really enterprise business which is how you're going to use these devices in oil and gas industry, in automotive industry, in very toxic environments. Where the device needs to be lightweight, with long battery-life, it needs to be intrinsically safe as well. Safe in the-- >> Jeff: Environment, right. >> The devices are coming, and then by 2020 the estimate is that, that whole business is going to shift from $14 billion to $143, one forty three. >> By 2020? >> Yeah. >> Two years from now? That's right, two-three years, because the devices are there. And then, right now 70% of this business is consumer-driven, and 30% is enterprise. We're going to flip that. 70% is going to be enterprise, and 30% will be consumer. >> In 2020? >> Yes. >> Just right around the corner. >> Right around the corner. I mean, I met with a couple of companies, this company called RealWear, they doing amazing device. It's a device you wear, you can put that on the helmet, very very light. You can drop it from 10 meters, it bounce back. It works. And then basically you have bots with cognition in the very noisy environment, like this one, you can speak, you recognize everything. It can provide you with augmented reality information about what you need to do and everything. That's the typical device that we need. You can use it in toxic environments. It has other certification. I mean it's IPv6 and everything, you can run on it and it doesn't do anything, and that's exactly what we need to develop the new use case, that's going to drive these further. >> Yeah, cause we're still a long way from there but two years is not very long, >> It's not long. >> for the devices. >> I mean, it's acceleration. >> Right, right. Alright Marc, well we're excited. What's your favorite AR-VR-ER application? >> You and I, we go to Venice tomorrow, always virtual reality, and so with the combination of the olfactive, the sound, the sun and everything. You can be sitting there on the terrace, you can hear the Vaporetto passing by, you eat the bread, and I fake your brain with the olfactive stuff, you believe it's a pizza, and you drink the water and it's Chianti. That's what it's going to be. >> See I think the device is going to be when it plugs into your head. Again, avoid all these things and go straight in. And then it begs the question, did you really do it? >> I know, I know. Or not? That's way deep, we don't have time Marc. >> It was great to see you. >> Thanks for stopping by. He's Marc, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCube, Accenture Technology Vision preview party, thanks for watching. (bright music)