(smooth music) >> Hello, everyone. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. I want to welcome Konrad Feldman, the founder and CEO of Quantcast here, to kick off the Quantcast Industry Summit on the demise of third-party cookies. The event's called 'The Cookie Conundrum, A Recipe for Success', the changing advertising landscape. Super relevant conversation, especially now more than ever. Konrad, welcome to your own program. Kicking this off! Thanks for holding this event. >> It's a pleasure. Great to chat with you today. >> So a big fan, been following your company since the founding of it, and analytics is always the prize of any data-driven company media. Anything's all data-driven now, talk about the open internet because now more than ever, it's under siege. As I, as I mentioned in my open we've been seeing the democratization a new trend of decentralization. We're starting to see, you know everyone's present online now. Clay Shirky, he wrote a book called, 'Here Comes Everyone' in 2005. Well, everyone's here, right? So, you know, we're, we're here. It's got to be more open but yet people are looking at it as closed right now you're seeing the big players, hoarding the data. What's your vision of this open internet? >> Well, an open internet exists for everyone. And if you think about the evolution of the internet, when the internet was created for the first time really in history, anyone that had access to the internet could publish the content whatever they were interested in, you could find an audience. And of course, that's grown to where we are today where 5 billion people around the world are able to engage in all sorts of content, whether that's entertainment or education, news, movies. What's perhaps not so widely understood is that most of that content is paid for by advertising. And there's a lot of systems that support advertising on the open internet and some of those are under siege today, certainly. >> And what's the big pressure point. Is it just more control of the data? Is it just that these walled gardens are wanting to you know, suck the audience in there? Is it monetization driving it? What's the, where's the friction? >> Well, the, the challenge is, is sort of the accumulation of power into a really small number of now giant corporations who have actually reduced a lot of the friction that marketers have in spending their money effectively. And it means that those companies are capturing a disproportionate spend of the, the ad budgets, that fund digital content. So the problem is if more of the money goes to them, less of it's going to independent content creators. It's actually getting harder for independent voices to to emerge and be heard. And so that's the real challenge is that as more power consolidates into just the limited number of tech giants. The funding path for the open internet becomes constrained. And there'll be less choice for consumers without having to pay for subscriptions. >> Yeah, everyone knows the more data you have the better and certainly but the centralized power when the trend is going the other way that the consensus is everyone wants to be decentralized more truth, more trust. All of this is being talked about on the heels of the Google's news around, you know, getting rid of third-party cookies and others have followed suit. What does this mean? I mean, this cookies have been the major vehicle for you know, tracking and getting that kind of data. What is it going to be replaced with? What is this all about? And can you share with us what the future will look like? >> Sure. Well, just as advertising funds the open internet, it's advertising technology that supports that advertising spend and it supports sort of the business of advertising that funds the open internet and within all of that technology is the need for different systems to be able to align around the identification of, for example, a consumer have they been to this site before? Have they seen an ad before? So there's all of these different systems that might be used for advertising, for measurement, for attribution, for creating personalization. And historically they've relied upon the third party cookie as the mechanism for synchronization. Well, the third-party cookie has been in decline for some time. It's already mostly gone from actually Apple Safari browser but Google's Chrome has so much control over how people access the internet. And so it was when Google announced that Chrome was going to deprecate the third party cookie that it really sort of focused the minds of the industry in terms of finding alternative ways to tailor content and ultimately to just simply measure the effectiveness of advertising. And so there's an enormous amount of innovation taking place right now to find alternative solutions. >> You know, some are saying that the free open internet was pretty much killed when you know, the big companies like Facebook and Google started bringing all this data in and kind of pulls all, sucks all the options out of the room, so to speak. What does this mean with cookies now getting rid of by Google. How does it impact publishers, because is it helpful? I mean, hurtful, I mean, where's the, where's the what's a publisher impact? >> Well, I don't think anyone really knows right now. So first of all, cookies weren't necessarily a very good solution to the sort of the challenge of maintaining state and understanding those sorts of, you know the delivery of advertising and so on. It's just the one that's commonly used. I think for different publishers it may mean different things, but you know many publishers need to be able to demonstrate the value and the effectiveness of the advertising solutions that they, that they deliver. So there'll be innovating in terms of how they use their first party data. There'll be continuing to use contextual solutions that have long been used to create advertising relevant relevance. I think the big question of course is how are we going to measure it that any of this is effective at all? Because everyone relies upon measuring advertising effectiveness to justify capturing those budgets in the first place. >> You know, you mentioned a contextual like it's come up a lot. Also in the other interviews we've done with the folks around the internet around this topic of machine learning is a big one, too. What is the impact of this with the modernization of, of, of the solution? You mentioned cookies, okay. Cookies, old technology, but the mechanisms in this ecosystem around it or not, it funds the open internet. What is that modern solution that goes that next level? Is it contextual metadata? Is that a shared systems? What's the >> It's a modernization of that. It's all of those and, and more there's no, there's no single solution to replace the third-party cookie. There'll be a combination of solutions. Part of that will be alternative identity mechanisms. So, you know you will start to see more registration walls to access content so that you have what's called a deterministic identifier. There will be statistical models so-called probabilistic models. Contextual has always been important. It will become more important and it will be combined with, you know we use contextual combining natural language processing with machine learning models to really understand the detailed context of different pages across the internet. You'll also see the use of first party data. And there are discussions about shared beta services as well. I think that it's going to be a whole set of different innovations that we'll need to inter-operate and it's going to be an evolutionary process. As people get used to using these different systems to sort of satisfy the different stages of the media fulfillment cycle from research and planning to activation, to measurement >> You brought up walled gardens. I want to just touch on, on on this kind of concept of walled gardens and, and compare and contrast that with the demand for community. Open internet has always fostered a community vibe. You see network effects mostly in distinct user communities or subnets sub networks. if you will. Kind of walled gardens became that kind of group get together, but then became more of a media solution to make the users the product as they say, Facebook is a great example, right? People talk about Facebook and from that misinformation, abuse. So walled gardens, not the best thing happening right now in the world, but yet, is there any other choice? That's how they're going to make money but yet everyone wants trust, truth, community. Are they mutually exclusive? How do you see this evolving? What's your take? >> Well, I think the open internet is a forum where anyone can have their voice, put their voice out there and have it discovered. And it's in that regard, it's, it's a force for good. Look, I think there are, there are challenges obviously in terms of some of the some of the optimization that takes place within inside the walled gardens. Such as, sort of optimized to drive engagement can have some unintended consequences and obviously that's something that's broadly being discussed today and the impact on society, but sort of more at a more pointed level is just the absorption of advertising dollars. There's a finite amount of money from advertisers. It's estimated to be $400 billion this year in digital advertising. So it's a huge amount of money in terms of funding, the open internet, which sounds great except for it's increasingly concentrated in a tiny number of companies. And so our job at Quantcast as champions of the free and open internet is to help direct money effectively to publishers across the open internet and give advertisers a reliable, repeatable way of accessing the audiences that they care about in the environments they care about and delivering advertising results. >> As a publisher, we care a lot about what our audience wants and try to serve them and listen to them. If we could get the data, we want that data. And then also broker in the monetization with advertisers who might want to reach that audience in whatever way. So this brings up the question of, you know automation and role of data. You know, this is a huge thing of to having that data closed loop if you will, for, for publishers. But yet most publishers are small, some niche, and even as they can become super large, they don't have all the data and more the more data, the better the machine learning. >> That's right. >> So what's the answer to this, as it goes forward how do we get there? What's the dots that that we need to connect to get to that future state? >> So I think it takes, it takes companies working together effectively. I think a really important part of it is, is a more direct conversation with consumers. You know, we've seen that change beginning to happen over the past few years, with the introduction of of regulations that require clear communication to consumers about the data that's captured and why. And I think that creates an opportunity to explain to your audiences the way in which content, is funded. So I think that consumer can that consumer conversation will be part of the collective solution. >> You know, I want to, as we wind down this kickoff segment get your thoughts and vision around the evolution of the internet and you guys have done some great work at Quantcast, it's well documented. But everyone used to talk about traffic, you know buy traffic, then it became cost of acquisitions, PPC search. This is either mechanisms that people have been using for a long, long time. Then, you know your connections but audiences is about traffic, audience traffic. If everyone is online doesn't that become about networks and the people. So I want to get your thoughts and your vision because if community is going to be more important than people agree that it is and things are going to be decentralized, more openness more voices to be heard, you need to address the ability. The formation of networks and groups become super important. What's your vision on that? >> So, my vision is to create relevance and utility for consumers. I think there's one of the things that's often forgotten is that when we make advertising more relevant and useful for consumers, it automatically fulfills the objectives that publishers and marketers have. Everyone wins when advertising is more relevant and our vision is to make advertising relevant across the entire open internet. So that that ad supported model can continue to flourish in that and that 5 billion and hopefully many more billions in the future, people around the world have access to high quality, diverse content. >> If someone asks you Conrad what is Quantcast doing to make the open internet viable now that Cookie's going away? What's the answer? >> So well, the cookie piece is a is a central piece of it in terms of finding solutions that will enable sort of planning, activation and measurement post cookies. And we have a lot of innovation going on there. We're also working with a range of industry bodies and our partners to build solutions for this. What we're really trying to do is to make buying the open internet as straightforward for marketers as it is today in buying the walled gardens. The reason the walled gardens capture so much money is they made it really easy for marketers to get results. Marketers would like to be able to spend their money across all of the diverse publishers of the open internet. You know, our job at Quantcast is to make it just as easy to effectively spend money in funding the content that they really care about in reaching the audiences that they want. >> Great stuff. Great mission, Conrad. Thanks for coming on. Conrad Feldman, founder and CEO here at the 'Cookie Conundrum, Recipe for Success' event. Quantcast industry summit on the demise of third-party cookies. Thank you, Conrad. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Stay with us for more on the industry event around the demise of cookies.

>>what? Hello, I'm john free with the cube. I want to welcome Conrad Feldman, the founder and Ceo of Kwan cast here to kick off the quan cast industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. The events called the cookie conundrum, a recipe for success. The changing advertising landscape, super relevant conversation just now. More than ever. Conrad welcome to your own program kicking this off. Thanks for holding this event. It's a pleasure. Great to chat with you today. So a big fan been following your company since the founding of it. Been analytics is always the prize of any data driven company. Media. Anything's all data driven now. Um, talk about the open internet because now more than ever it's under siege. As I, as I mentioned in my open, um, we've been seeing the democratization, a new trend of decentralization. We're starting to see um, you know, everyone's present online now, Clay Shirky wrote a book called, here comes everyone in 2005. Well everyone's here. Right? So you know, we're here, it's gonna be more open. But yet people are looking at as close right now. You're seeing the big players, um, or in the data. What's your vision of this open internet? >>Well, an open internet exists for everyone. And if you think about the evolution of the internet, when the internet was created for the first time really in history, anyone that had access to the internet could publish the content, whatever they were interested in and could find an audience. And of course that's grown to where we are today, where five billion people around the world are able to engage in all sorts of content, whether that's entertainment or education, news, movies. What's perhaps not so widely understood is that most of that content is paid for by advertising and there's a lot of systems that support advertising on the open Internet and some of those are under siege today certainly. >>And what's the big pressure point? Is it just more control the data? Is it just that these walled gardens are wanting to, you know, suck the audience in there? Is that monetization driving it? What's where's the friction? >>Well, the challenges is sort of the accumulation of power into a really small number of now giant corporations who have actually reduced a lot of the friction that marketers have in spending their money effectively. And it means that those companies are capturing a disproportionate spend of the ad budgets that fund digital content. So the problem is if more of the money goes to them, less of its going to independent content creators. It's actually getting harder for independent voices to emerge and be heard. And so that's the real challenges. That has more power consolidates into just a limited number of tech giants. The funding path for the open Internet becomes constrained and there'll be less choice for consumers without having to pay for subscriptions. >>Everyone knows the more data you have the better and certainly, but the centralized power when the trend is going the other way, the consensus is everyone wants to be decentralized more truth, more trust all this is being talked about on the heels of the google's news around, you know, getting rid of third party cookies and others have followed suit. Um, what does this mean? I mean, this cookies have been the major vehicle for tracking and getting that kind of data. What is gonna be replaced with what is this all about? And can you share with us what the future will look like? >>Sure, Well, just as advertising funds the open Internet is advertising technology that supports that advertising spend. It supports sort of the business of advertising that funds the open Internet. And within all of that technology is the need for different systems to be able to align around um the identification of for example, a consumer, Have they been to this site before? Have they seen an ad before? So there's all of these different systems that might be used for advertising for measurement, for attribution, for creating personalization. And historically they've relied upon the third party cookie as the mechanism for synchronization. Well, the third party cookie has been in decline for some time. It's already mostly gone from actually apple safari browser, but google's chrome has so much control over how people access the internet. And so it was when Google announced that chrome was going to deprecate the third party cookie, that it really sort of focus the minds of the industry in terms of finding alternative ways to tailor content and ultimately to just simply measure the effectiveness of advertising. And so there's an enormous amount of um innovation taking place right now to find alternative solutions. >>You know, some are saying that the free open internet was pretty much killed when, you know, the big comes like facebook and google started bringing all this data and kind of pulls all sucks all the auction in the room, so to speak. What's this mean with cookies now getting, getting rid of um, by google has an impact publishers because is it helpful? I mean hurtful. I mean, where's the where is that, what the publisher impact? >>Well, I don't think anyone really knows right now. So first of all, cookies weren't necessarily a very good solution to the sort of the challenge of maintaining state and understanding those sorts of the delivery of advertising and so on. It's just the one that's commonly used, I think for different publishers it may mean different things. But many publishers need to be able to demonstrate the value and the effectiveness of the advertising solutions that they deliver. So they'll be innovating in terms of how they use their first party data. They'll be continuing to use contextual solutions that have long been used to create advertising relevant, relevant. I think the big question of course is how we're going to measure it that any of this is effective at all because everyone relies upon measuring advertising effectiveness to justify capturing those budgets in the first place. >>You know, you mentioned contextual come up a lot also in the other interviews we've done with the folks in the around the internet around this topic of machine learning is a big 12 What is the impact of this with the modernization of the solution? You mentioned cookies? Okay cookies, old technology. But the mechanisms in this ecosystem around it or not, it funds the open internet. What is that modern solution that goes that next level? Is it contextual metadata? Is that shared systems? What's the it's the modernization of that. >>It's all of those and and more. There's no there's no single solution to replace the third party cookie. There'll be a combination of solutions. Part of that will be alternative identity mechanisms. So you know, you will start to see more registration wars to access content so that you have what's called a deterministic identify there will be statistical models so called probabilistic models, contextual has always been important. It will become more important and it will be combined with we use contextual combining natural language processing with machine learning models to really understand the detailed context of different pages across the internet. You'll also see the use of first party data and there are discussions about shared data services as well. I think there's gonna be a whole set of different innovations that will need to inter operate and it's going to be an evolutionary process as people get used to using these different systems to satisfy the different stages of the media fulfillment cycle from research and planning to activation to measurement. >>You know, you put up walled gardens. I want to just touch on the on on this kind of concept of walled gardens and and and and compare and contrast that with the demand for community, open internet has always fostered a community vibe. You see network effects mostly in distinct user communities or subnets of sub networks. If you will kind of walled gardens became that kind of group get together but then became more of a media solution to make the user is the product, as they say, facebook's a great example, right? People talk about facebook and from that misinformation abuse walled garden is not the best thing happening right now in the world, but yet is there any other other choice? That's how they're going to make money? But yet everyone wants trust, truth community. Are they usually exclusive? How do you see this evolving, what's your take? >>Well, I think the open internet is a, is a forum where anyone can have their voice, uh, put their voice out there and have it discovered and it's in that regard, it's a it's a force for good look. I think there are there are challenges, obviously in terms of some of the some of the optimization that takes place with inside the walled gardens, which is, is sort of optimized to drive engagement can have some unintended consequences. Um obviously that's something that's, that's broadly being discussed today and the impact on society, but sort of more at a more pointed level, it's just the absorption of advertising dollars. There's a finite amount of money from advertisers. It's estimated to be $400 billion this year in digital advertising. So it's a huge amount of money in terms of funding the open Internet, which sounds great except for its increasingly concentrated in a tiny number of companies. And so, you know, our job at Quan cast as champions of the free and open Internet is to help direct money effectively to publishers across the open internet and give advertisers a reliable, repeatable way of accessing the audiences that they care about in the environment they care about and delivering advertising results. >>It's a publisher, we care a lot about what our audience wants and try to serve them and listen to them. If we could get the data, we want that data and then also broker in the monetization with advertisers, who might want to reach that audience in whatever way. So this brings up the question of, you know, automation and role of data. You know, this is a huge thing to having that data closed loop, if you will for for publishers. But yet most publishers are small, some niche. And even as they can become super large, they don't have all the data and more, the more data, the better the machine learning. So what's the answer to this as it goes forward? How do we get there? What's the dots that that we need to connect to get that future state? >>So I think it takes it takes companies working together effectively. I think a really important part of it is, is a more direct conversation with consumers. We've seen that change beginning to happen over the past few years with the introduction of regulations that require clear communication to consumers about the data that's captured. And y and I think that creates an opportunity to explain to your audience is the way in which content is funded. So I think that consumer that consumer conversation will be part of the collective solution. >>You know, I want to as we wind down this kickoff segment, get your thoughts and vision around um, the evolution of the internet and you guys have done some great work at quan Cast is well documented, but everyone used to talk about traffic by traffic, then it became cost of acquisitions. PPC search. This is either mechanisms that people have been using for a long, long time, then you know, your connections but audience is about traffic, audience traffic. If this if my family is online, doesn't it become about networks and the people. So I want to get your thoughts and your vision because if community is going to be more important than people agree that it is and things are gonna be decentralized, more openness, more voices to be heard. You need to dress ability. The formation of networks and groups become super important. What's your vision on that? >>So my vision is to create relevance and utility for consumers. I think that's one of the things that's often forgotten is that when we make advertising more relevant and useful for consumers, it automatically fulfils the objectives that publishers and marketers have, everyone wins when advertising is more relevant. And our vision is to make advertising relevant across the entire open internet so that that ad supported model can continue to flourish and that five billion and hopefully many more billions in the future, people around the world have access to high quality, diverse content. >>If someone asked you Conrad, what is quant cast doing to make the open internet viable now that cookies are going away? What's the answer? >>So well, the cookie pieces is a central piece of it in terms of finding solutions that will enable sort of planning activation and measurement post cookies and we have a lot of innovation going on. There were also working with a range of industry bodies and our and our partners to build solutions for this. What we're really trying to do is to make buying the open internet as straightforward for marketers as it is today and buying the walled gardens. The reason the walled gardens capture so much money is they made it really easy for marketers to get results, marketers would like to be able to spend their money across all of the diverse publishes the open internet. You know, our job at Comcast is to make it just as easy to effectively spend money in funding the content that they really care about in reaching the audiences that they want. >>Great stuff. Great Mission. Conrad, thanks for coming on. Conrad Feldmann founder and Ceo here at the cookie conundrum recipe for success event, Quant Cast Industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. Thank you. Conrad appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I'm john ferrier, stay with us for more on the industry event around the middle cookies. Mhm Yeah, yeah, thank you. Mhm. Welcome back to the Qantas industry summit on the demise of third party cookies, the cookie conundrum, a recipe for success. I'm john furrier host of the cube, the changing landscape of advertising is here and shit Gupta, founder of you of digital is joining us chief. Thanks for coming on this segment. Really appreciate, I know you're busy, you've got two young kids as well as providing education to the digital industry, you got some kids to take care of and train them to. So welcome to the cube conversation here as part of the program. >>Yeah, thanks for having me excited to be here. >>So the office of the changing landscape of advertising really centers around the open to walled garden mindset of the web and the big power players. We know the big 34 tech players dominate the marketplace so clearly in a major inflection point and we've seen this movie before Web mobile revolution which was basically a reply platform NG of capabilities. But now we're in an error of re factoring the industry, not re platt forming a complete changing over of the value proposition. So a lot at stake here as this open web, open internet, global internet evolves. What are your, what's your take on this, this industry proposals out there that are talking to this specific cookie issue? What does it mean? And what proposals are out there? >>Yeah, so, you know, I I really view the identity proposals and kind of to to kind of groups, two separate groups. So on one side you have what the walled gardens are doing and really that's being led by google. Right, so google um you know, introduce something called the privacy sandbox when they announced that they would be deprecating third party cookies uh as part of the privacy sandbox, they've had a number of proposals unfortunately, or you know, however you want to say they're all bird themed for some reason, I don't know why. Um but the one, the bird theme proposal that they've chosen to move forward with is called flock, which stands for Federated learning of cohorts. And essentially what it all boils down to is google is moving forward with cohort level learning and understanding of users in the future after third party cookies, unlike what we've been accustomed to in this space, which is a user level understanding of people and what they're doing online for targeting tracking purposes. And so that's on one side of the equation, it's what google is doing with flock and privacy sandbox now on the other side is, you know, things like unified I. D. Two point or the work that I. D five is doing around building new identity frameworks for the entire space that actually can still get down to the user level. Right? And so again, unified I. D. Two point oh comes to mind because it's the one that's probably got the most adoption in the space. It's an open source framework. So the idea is that it's free and pretty much publicly available to anybody that wants to use it and unified, I need to point out again is user level. So it's it's basically taking data that's authenticated data from users across various websites you know that are logging in and taking those authenticated users to create some kind of identity map. And so if you think about those two work streams right, you've got the walled gardens and or you know, google with flock on one side and then you've got unified I. D. Two point oh and other I. D. Frameworks for the open internet. On the other side, you've got these two very differing type of approaches to identity in the future. Again on the google side it's cohort level, it's going to be built into chrome. Um The idea is that you can pretty much do a lot of the things that we do with advertising today, but now you're just doing it at a group level so that you're protecting privacy, whereas on the other side of the open internet you're still getting down to the user level. Um And that's pretty powerful. But the the issue there is scale, right? We know that a lot of people are not logged in on lots of websites. I think the stat that I saw is under five of all website traffic is authenticated. So really if you if you simplify things you boil it all down, you have kind of these two very differing approaches. >>I guess the question it really comes down to what alternatives are out there for cookies and which ones do you think will be more successful? Because I think, you know, the consensus is at least from my reporting, in my view, is that the world agrees. Let's make it open, Which one is going to be better. >>Yeah, that's a great question, john So as I mentioned, right, we have we have to kind of work streams here, we've got the walled garden work streams, work stream being led by google and their work around flock, and then we've got the open internet, right? Let's say unified I. D to kind of represents that. I personally don't believe that there is a right answer or an endgame here. I don't think that one of them wins over the other, frankly, I think that, you know, first of all, you have those two frameworks, neither of them are perfect, they're both flawed in their own ways. There are pros and cons to both of them. And so what we're starting to see now is you have other companies kind of coming in and building on top of both of them as kind of a hybrid solution. Right? So they're saying, hey, we use, you know, an open I. D. Framework in this way to get down to the user level and use that authenticated data and that's important. But we don't have all the scale. So now we go to google and we go to flock to kind of fill the scale. Oh and hey, by the way, we have some of our own special sauce, right? We have some of our own data, we have some of our own partnerships, we're gonna bring that in and layer it on top. Right? And so really where I think things are headed is the right answer, frankly, is not one or the other. It's a little mishmash of both. With a little extra something on top. I think that's that's what we're starting to see out of a lot of companies in the space. And I think that's frankly where we're headed. >>What do you think the industry will evolve to, in your opinion? Because I think this is gonna, you can't ignore the big guys on this because these programmatic you mentioned also the data is there. But what do you think the market will evolve to with this, with this conundrum? >>So, so I think john where we're headed? You know, I think we're right now we're having this existential existential crisis, right? About identity in this industry, because our world is being turned upside down, all the mechanisms that we've used for years and years are being thrown out the window and we're being told they were gonna have new mechanisms, Right? So cookies are going away device ids are going away and now we got to come up with new things and so the world is being turned upside down and everything that you read about in the trades and you know, we're here talking about it, right? Like everyone's always talking about identity right now, where do I think this is going if I was to look into my crystal ball, you know, this is how I would kind of play this out. If you think about identity today. Right? Forget about all the changes. Just think about it now and maybe a few years before today, Identity for marketers in my opinion has been a little bit of a checkbox activity. Right? It's been hey, um, okay, uh, you know ad tech company or a media company, do you have an identity solution? Okay. Tell me a little bit more about it. Okay, Sounds good. That sounds good. Now can we move on and talk about my business and how are you going to drive meaningful outcomes or whatever for my business? And I believe the reason that is, is because identity is a little abstract, right? It's not something that you can actually get meaningful validation against. It's just something that, you know. Yes, You have it. Okay, great. Let's move on, type of thing. Right. And so that, that's, that's kind of where we've been now, all of a sudden The cookies are going away, the device ids are going away. And so the world is turning upside down in this crisis of how are we going to keep doing what we were doing for the last 10 years in the future. So everyone's talking about it and we're trying to re engineer right? The mechanisms now if I was to look into the crystal ball right 2 3 years from now where I think we're headed is not much is going to change. And what I mean by that john is um uh I think that marketers will still go to companies and say do you have an ID solution? Okay tell me more about it. Okay uh Let me understand a little bit better. Okay you do it this way. Sounds good. Now the ways in which companies are going to do it will be different right now. It's flock and unified I. D. And this and that right. The ways the mechanisms will be a little bit different but the end state right? Like the actual way in which we operate as an industry and kind of like the view of the landscape in my opinion will be very simple or very similar, right? Because marketers will still view it as a tell me you have an ID solution. Make me feel good about it. Help me check the box and let's move on and talk about my business and how you're going to solve for my needs. So I think that's where we're going. That is not by any means to discount this existential moment that we're in. This is a really important moment where we do have to talk about and figure out what we're going to do in the future. My just my viewpoint is that the future will actually not look all that different than the present. >>And I'll say the user base is the audience. Their their data behind it helps create new experiences, machine learning and Ai are going to create those and we have the data you have the sharing it or using it as we're finding shit Gupta great insight dropping some nice gems here. Founder of you of Digital and also the Adjunct professor of Programmatic advertising at Levi School of Business and santa Clara University professor. Thank you for coming dropping the gems here and insight. Thank you. >>Thanks a lot for having me john really appreciate >>it. Thanks for watching. The cooking 100 is the cube host Jon ferrier me. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. Hello welcome back to the cookie conundrum recipe for success and industry conference and summit from Guanacaste on the demise of third party cookies. Got a great industry panel here to break it down chris Gunther Senior Vice president Global Head of programmatic at news corp chris thanks for coming on Zal in Managing Director Solutions at Z axis and Summer Simpson. Vice president Product at quan cast stellar panel. Looking forward to this conversation. Uh thanks for coming on and chatting about the cookie conundrum. Thank you for having us. So chris we'll start with you at news corp obviously a major publisher deprecation of third party cookies affects everyone. You guys have a ton of traffic, ton of audience across multiple formats. Um, tell us about the impact to you guys and the reliance he has had on them. And what are you gonna do to prepare for this next level change? >>Sure. I mean, I think like everyone in this industry there's uh a significant reliance and I think it's something that a lot of talk about audience targeting but obviously that reliance on third party cookies pervasive across the whole at tech ecosystem Martek stack. And so you know, we have to think about how that impact vendor vendors, we work with what it means in terms of use cases across marketing, across advertising, across site experience. So, you know, without a doubt, it it's it's significant, but you know, we look at it as listen, it's disruptive, uh, disruption and change is always a little scary. Um, but overall it's a, it's a long overdue reset. I mean, I think that, you know, our perspective is that the cookies, as we all know was it was a crutch, right sort of a technology being used in way it shouldn't. Um, and so as we look at what's going to happen presumably after Jan 2022 then it's, it's a good way to kind of fix on some bad practices practices that lead to data leakage, um, practice or devalue for our perspective, some of the, you know, we offered as as publishers and I think that this is a key thing is that we're not just looking to as we look at the post gender world, not just kind of recreating the prior world because the prior world was flawed or I guess you could say the current world since it hasn't changed yet. But the current world is flawed. Let's not just not, you know, let's not just replicate that. Let's make sure that, you know, third party cookie goes away. Other work around like fingerprinting and things like that. You know, also go away so philosophically, that's where our heads at. And so as we look at how we are preparing, you know, you look at what are the core building blocks of preparing for this world. Obviously one of the key ones is privacy compliance. Like how do we treat our users with consent? Yeah, obviously. Are we um aligned with the regulatory environments? Yeah. In some ways we're not looking just a Jan 2022, but Jan 23 where there's gonna be the majority of our audiences we covered by regulation. And so I think from regulation up to data gathering to data activation, all built around an internal identifier that we've developed that allows us to have a consistent look at our users whether they're logged in or obviously anonymous. So it's really looking across all those components across all our sites and in all in a privacy compliant way. So a lot of work to be done, a lot of work in progress. But we're >>excited about what's going on. I like how you framed at Old world or next gen kind of the current situation kind of flawed. And as you think about programmatic, the concept is mind blowing and what needs to be done. So we'll come back to that because I think that original content view is certainly relevant, a huge investment and you've got great content and audience consuming it from a major media standpoint. Get your perspective on the impact because you've got clients who want to get their their message out in front of the audience at the right time, at the right place and the right context. Right, So your privacy, you got consent, all these things kind of boiling up. How do you help clients prepare? Because now they can go direct to the consumer. Everyone, everyone has a megaphone, now, everyone's, everyone's here, everyone's connected. So how are you impacted by this new notion? >>You know, if if the cookie list future was a tic tac, dance will be dancing right now, and at least into the next year, um this has been top of mind for us and our clients for quite some time, but I think as each day passes, the picture becomes clearer and more in focus. Uh the end of the third party cookie does not mean the end of programmatic. Um so clients work with us in transforming their investments into real business outcomes based on our expertise and based on our tech. So we continue to be in a great position to lead to educate, to partner and to grow with them. Um, along this uh cookie list future, the impact will be all encompassing in changing the ways we do things now and also accelerating the things that we've already been building on. So we take it from the top planning will have a huge impact because it's gonna start becoming more strategic around real business outcomes. Uh where Omni channel, So clients want to drive outcomes, drew multiple touch points of a consumer's journey, whether it has programmatic, whether it has uh cookie free environment, like connected tv, digital home audio, gaming and so forth. So we're going to see more of these strategic holistic plans. Creative will have a lot of impact. It will start becoming more important with creative testing. Creative insights. You know, creative in itself is cookie list. So there will be more focused on how to drive uh brand dialogue to connect to consumers with less targeting. With less cookies, with the cohesiveness of holistic planning. Creative can align through multiple channels and lastly, the role of a. I will become increasingly important. You know, we've always looked to build our tech our products to complement new and existing technology as well as the client's own data and text back to deliver these outcomes for them. And ai in its core it's just taking input data uh and having an output of your desired outcome. So input data could be dSP data beyond cookies such as browser such as location, such as contextual or publisher taking clients first party data, first party crm data like store visitation, sales, site activity. Um and using that to optimize in real time regardless of what vendor or what channel we're on. Um So as we're learning more about this cookie list dance, we're helping our clients on the steps of it and also introducing our own moves. >>That's awesome. Data is going to be a key value proposition, connecting in with content real time. Great stuff. Somewhere with your background in journalism and you're the tech VP of product at quan cast. You have the keys to the kingdom over there. It's interesting Journalism is about truth and good content original content. But now you have a data challenge problem opportunity on both sides, brands and publishers coming together. It's a data problem in a way it's a it's a tech stack, not so much just getting the right as to show up at the right place the right time. It's really bigger than that now. What's your take on this? >>Um you know, >>so first >>I think that consumers already sort of like except that there is a reasonable value exchange for their data in order to access free content. Right? And that's that's a critical piece for us to all kind of like understand over the past. Hi guys, probably two years since even even before the G. D. P. R. We've been doing a ton of discovery with customers, both publishers and marketers. Um and so you know, we've kind of known this, this cookie going away thing has been coming. Um And you know, Google's announcement just kind of confirmed it and it's been, it's been really, really interesting since Google's announcement, how the conversations have changed with with our customers and other folks that we talked to. And I've almost gone from being like a product manager to a therapist because there's such an emotional response. Um you know, from the marketing perspective, there's real fear there. There's like, oh my God, how you know, it's not just about, you know, delivering ads, it's about how do I control frequency? How do I, how do I measure, you know, success? Because the technology has has grown so much over the years to really give marketers the ability to deliver personalized advertising, good content, right. The consumers um and be able to monitor it and control it so that it's not too too intrusive on the publisher perspective side, we see slightly different response. It's more of a yes, right. You know, we're taking back control and we're going to stop the data leakage, we're going to get the value back for our inventory. Um and that both things are a good thing, but if it's, if it's not managed, it's going to be like ships passing in the night, right? In terms of um of, you know, they're there, them coming together, right, and that's the critical pieces that they have to come together. They have to get closer, you got to cut out a lot of that loom escape in the middle so that they can talk to each other and understand what's the value exchange happening between marketers and publishers and how do we do that without cookies? >>It's a fascinating, I love love your insight there. I think it's so relevant and it's got broader implications because, you know, if you look at how data's impact, some of these big structural changes and re factoring of industries, look at cyber security, you know, no one wants to share their data, but now if they share they get more insight, more machine learning, benefit more ai benefit. So now we have the sharing notion, but that goes against counter the big guys that want to wall garden, they want to hoard all the data and and control that to provide their own personalization. So you have this confluence of, hey, I want to hoard the data and then now I want to share the data. So so christmas summer you're in the, in the wheelhouse, you got original content and there's other providers out there. So is there the sharing model coming with privacy and these kinds of services? Is the open, come back again? How do you guys see this uh confluence of open versus walled gardens, because you need the data to make machine learning good. >>So I'll start uh start off, I mean, listen, I think you have to give credit to the walled gardens have created, I think as we look as publishers, what are we offering to our clients, what are we offering to the buy side? We need to be compelling. We shouldn't just be uh yeah, actually as journalists, I think that there is a case of the importance of funding journalism. Um but ultimately we need to make sure we're meeting the KPI is and the business needs of the buy side. And I think around that it is the sort of three core pillars that its ease of access, its scope of of activation and targeting and finally measurable results. So as I think is us as an individual publishers, so we have, we have multiple publications. So we do have scale. But then in partnership with other publishers perhaps to organizations like pre bid, you know, I think we can, you know, we're trying to address that and I think we can offer something that's compelling um, and transparent in terms of what these results are. But obviously, you know, I want to make sure it's clear transparent terms of results, but obviously where there's privacy in terms of the data and I think the form, you know, I think we've all heard a lot like data clean rooms, a lot of them out there flogging those wears. I think there's something valuable but you know, I think it's the right who is sort of the right partner or partners um and ultimately who allows us to get as close as possible to the buy side. And so that we can share that data for targeting, share it for perhaps for measurement, but obviously all in a privacy compliant >>way summer, what's your take on this? Because you talk about the future of the open internet democratization, the network effect that we're seeing in Vire al Itty and across multiple on the on the channels. Is that pointed out what's happening? That's the distribution now. So um that's almost an open garden model. So it's like um yeah, >>yeah, it's it's um you know, back in the day, you know, um knight ridder who was who was the first group that I that I worked for, um you know, each of those individual properties, um we're not hugely valuable on their own from a digital perspective, but together as a unit, they became valuable, right, and got scale for advertisers. Now we're in a place where, you know, I kind of think that each of those big networks are going to have to come together and work together to compare in size to the, to the world gardens. Um, and yeah, this is something that we've talked about before and an open garden. Um, I think that's the, that's the definitely the right route to take. And I and I agree with chris it's, it's about publishers getting as close to the market. Is it possible working with the tech companies that enable them to do that and doing so in a very privacy centric >>way. So how do we bring the brands and agencies together to get ready for third party cookies? Because there is a therapist moment here of it's gonna be okay. The parachute will open. The future is not gonna be as as grim. Um, it's a real opportunity. But if managed properly, what's your take on this is just more first party data strategy and what's your assessment of this? >>So we collaborated right now with ball grants on how did this still very complex cookie list future. Um, you know what's going to happen in the future? 2, 6 steps that we can take right now and market should take. Um, The first step is to gather intel on what's working on your current campaign, analyzing the data sets across cookie free environment. So you can translate those tactics eventually when the cookies do go away. So we have to look at things like temperature or time analysis. We could look at log level data. We could look at site analytics data. We can look at brand measurement tools and how creative really impacts the campaign success. The second thing we can look at is geo targeting strategies. The geo target strategy has been uh underrated because the granularity and geo data could go down all the way to the local level, even beyond zip code. So for example the census black data and this is especially important for CPG brands. So we're working closely with the client teams to understand not only the online data but the offline data and how we can utilize that in the future. Uh We want to optimize investments around uh markets that are working so strong markets and then test and underperforming markets. The third thing we can look at is contextual. So contextual by itself is cookie free. Uh We could build on small scale usage to test and learn various keywords and content categories based sets. Working closely with partners to find ways to leverage their data to mimic audiences that you are trying to target right now with cookies. Um the 4th 1 is publisher data or publisher targeting. So working with your publishers that you have strong relationships with who can curate similar audiences using their own first party data and conducting RFs to understand the scale and reach against your audience and their future role maps. So work with your top publishers based on historical data to try to recreate your best strategies. The 15 and I think this is very important is first party data, you know, that's going to matter more than ever. In the calculus future brands will need to think about how to access and developed the first party data starting with the consumers seeing a value in exchange for the information. It's a gold mine and understanding of consumer, their intent, the journey um and you need a really great data science team to extract insights out of that data, which will be crucial. So partner with strategic onboarding vendors and vet their ability to accept first party data into a cleaner environment for targeting for modeling for insight. And lastly, the six thing that we can do is begin to inform prospect prospecting by dedicating test budget to start gaining learnings about cookie list 11 place that we can start and it is under invested right now is Safari and Firefox. They have been calculus for quite some time so you can start here and begin testing here. Uh work with your data scientist team to understand the right mix is to to target and start exploring other channels outside of um just programmatic cookies like CTV digital, out of home radio gaming and so forth. So those are the six steps that we're taking right now with our clients to uh prepare and plan for the cookie list future. >>So chris let's go back to you. What's the solution here? Is there one, is there multiple solutions? What's the future look like for a cookie was future? >>Uh I think the one certain answers, they're definitely not just one solution. Um as we all know right now there there seems to be endless solutions, a lot of ideas out there, proposals with the W three C uh work happening within other industry bodies uh you know private companies solutions being offered and you know, it's a little bit of it's enough to make everyone's head spin and to try to track it to understand and understand the impact. And as a publisher were obviously a lot of people are knocking on our door. Uh they're saying, hey our solution is one that is going to bring in lots of money, you know, the all the buy side is going to use it. This is the one like I ma call to spend um, and so expect here and so far is that none of these solutions are I think everyone is still testing and learning no one on the buy side from our, from our knowledge is really committed to one or a few. It's all about a testing stage. I think that, you know, putting aside all that noise, I think what matters the most to us as publisher is actually something summer mentioned before. It's about control. You know, if we're going to work with a again, outside of our sort of, you know, internal identifier work that we're doing is we're going to work with an outside party or outside approach doesn't give us control as a publisher to ensure that it is, we control the data from our users. There isn't that data leakage, it's probably compliant. What information gets shared out there. What is it, what's released within within the bid stream? Uh If it is something that's attached to a somewhat declared user registered user that if that then is not somehow amplified or leverage off on another site in a way that is leveraging bit stream data or fingerprinting and going against. I think that the spirit of what we're trying to do in a post third party cookie world so that those controls are critical and I think they have those controls, his publisher, we have collectively be disciplined in what solutions that we we test out and what we eventually adopt. But even when the adoption point arrives, uh definitely it will not be one. There will be multiple because it's just too many use cases to address >>great, great insight there from, from you guys, news corp summer. Let's get back to you. I want to get your thoughts. You've been in many waves of innovation ups and downs were on a new one. Now we talked about the open internet democratization. Journalism is under a lot of pressure now, but there's now a wave of quality people really leaning in towards fighting misinformation, understanding truth and community and date is at the heart of it. What do you see as the new future for journalists, reward journalism is our ways their path forward. >>So there's uh, there's what I hope is going to happen. Um, and then I'm just gonna ignore what could write. Um, you know, there's there's a trend in market right now, a number of fronts, right? So there are marketers who are leaning into wanting to spend their marketing dollars with quality journalists, focusing on bipac owned and operated, really leaning into into supporting those businesses that have been uh, those publishers that have been ignored for years. I really hope that this trend continues. Um We are leaning into into helping um, marketers curate that supply right? And really, uh, you know, speak with their dollars about the things that that they support. Um, and uh, and and value right in market. So I'm hoping that that trend continues and it's not just sort of like a marketing blip. Um, but we will do everything possible to kind of like encourage that behavior and and give people the information they need to find, you know, truly high quality journalism. >>That's awesome chris Summer. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insight on this panel on the cookie list future. Before we go, just quick summary each of you. If you don't mind just giving a quick sound bite or bumper sticker of what we can expect. If you had to throw a prediction For what's going to happen in the next 24 months Chris We'll start with you. >>Uh it's gonna be quite a ride. I think that's an understatement. Um I think that there, I wouldn't be surprised if if google delays the change to the chrome by a couple of months and and may give the industry some much needed time, but no one knows. I guess. I guess I'm not except for someone somewhere deep within chrome. So I think we all have to operate in a way that changes to happen, changes to happen quickly and it's gonna cover across all facets of the industry, all facets of from advertising, marketing. So just be >>prepared. >>Yeah, along the same lines, be prepared, nobody knows what's going to happen in the future. Uh You know, while dancing in this together. Uh I think um for us it's um planning and preparing and also building on what we've already been working on. Um So omni channel ai um creative and I think clients will uh lean more into those different channels, >>awesome. So we'll pick us home, last word. >>I think we're in the throwing spaghetti against the wall stage. Right, so this is a time of discovery of leaning in trying everything out, Learning and iterating as fast as we possibly >>can. Awesome. And I love the cat in the background over your shoulder. Can't stop staring at your wonderful cat. Thanks for coming on chris, Thanks for coming on. This awesome panel industry breakdown of the cookie conundrum. The recipe for success data ai open. Uh The future is here, it's coming, it's coming fast. I'm john fryer with the cube. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Welcome back to the Quant Cast industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. The cookie conundrum, a recipe for success. We're here peter day. The cto of quad cast and crew T cop car, head of product marketing quad cast. Thanks for coming on talking about the changing advertising landscape. >>Thanks for having us. Thank you for having >>us. So we've been hearing this story out to the big players. Want to keep the data, make that centralized control, all the leverage and then you've got the other end. You got the open internet that still wants to be free and valuable for everyone. Uh what's what are you guys doing to solve this problem? Because cookies go away? What's going to happen there? How do people track things you guys are in this business first question? What is quan cast strategies to adapt to third party cookies going away? What's gonna be, what's gonna be the answer? >>Yeah. So uh very rightly said, john the mission, the Qantas mission is the champion of free and open internet. Uh And with that in mind, our approach to this world without third party cookies is really grounded in three fundamental things. Uh First as industry standards, we think it's really important to participate and to work with organizations who are defining the standards that will guide the future of advertising. So with that in mind, we've been participating >>with I. A. B. >>Tech lab, we've been part of their project Triarc. Uh same thing with pre bid, who's kind of trying to figure out the pipes of identity. Di di di di di pipes of uh of the future. Um And then also is W three C, which is the World Wide Web Consortium. Um And our engineers and our engineering team are participating in their weekly meetings trying to figure out what's happening with the browsers and keeping up with the progress they're on things such as google's block. Um The second uh sort of thing is interoperability, as you've mentioned, there are lots of different uh I. D. Solutions that are emerging. You have you I. D. Two point oh, you have live RAM, you have google's flock. Uh And there will be more, there are more and they will continue to be more. Uh We really think it is important to build a platform that can ingest all of these signals. And so that's what we've done. Uh The reason really is to meet our customers where they are at today. Our customers use multiple different data management platforms, the mps. Um and that's why we support multiple of those. Um This is not going to be much different than that. We have to meet our customers where we are, where they are at. And then finally, of course, which is at the very heart of who contrast is innovation. Uh As you can imagine being able to take all of these multiple signals in including the I. D. S. And the cohorts, but also others like contextual first party um consent is becoming more and more important. Um And then there are many other signals, like time, language geo location. So all of these signals can help us understand user behavior intent and interests um in absence of 3rd party cookies. However, uh there's there's something to note about this. They're very raw, their complex, they're messy all of these different signals. Um They are changing all the time, they're real time. Um And there's incomplete information isolation. Just one of these signals cannot help you build a true and complete picture. So what you really need is a technology like AI and machine learning to really bring all of these signals together, combine them statistically and get an understanding of user behavior intent and interests and then act on it, be it in terms of providing audience insights um or responding to bid requests and and so on and so forth. So those are sort of the three um fundamentals that our approach is grounded in which is industry standards, interoperability and and innovation. Uh and you know, you have peter here, who is who is the expert So you can dive much deeper into >>it. Is T. T. O. You've got to tell us how is this going to actually work? What are you guys doing from a technology standpoint to help with data driven advertising in a third party cookie list world? >>Well, we've been um This is not a shock, you know, I think anyone who's been close to his space has known that the 3rd Party Cookie has been um uh reducing inequality in terms of its pervasiveness and its longevity for many years now. And the kind of death knell is really google chrome making a, making the changes that they're gonna be making. So we've been investing in the space for many years. Um and we've had to make a number of hugely diverse investment. So one of them is in how as a marketer, how do I tell if my marketing still working in the world without >>computers? The >>majority of marketers completely reliant on third party cookies today to tell them if they're if they're marketing is working or not. And so we've had to invest heavily and statistical techniques which are closer to kind of economic trick models that markets are used to things like out of home advertising, It's going to establishing whether they're advertising is working or not in a digital environment actually, >>just as >>often, you know, as is often the case in these kind of times of massive disruption, there's always opportunity to make things better. And we really think that's true. And you know, digital measurement has often mistaken precision for accuracy. And there's a real opportunity to kind of see the wood for the trees if you like. And start to come with better methods of measuring the affections of advertising without third party cookies. And in fact to make countless other investments in areas like contextual modeling and and targeting that third party cookies and and uh, connecting directly to publishers rather than going through this kind of bloom escape that's gonna tied together third party cookies. So if I was to enumerate all the investments we've made, I think we'll be here till midnight but we have to make a number of vestments over a number of years and that level investments only increasing at the moment. >>Peter on that contextual. Can you just double click on that and tell us more? >>Yeah, I mean contextual is unfortunately these things, this is really poorly defined. It can mean everything from a publisher saying, hey, trust us, this dissipated about CVS to what's possible now and has only really been possible the last couple of years, which is to build >>statistical >>models of the entire internet based on the content that people are actually consumed. And this type of technology requires massive data processing capabilities. It's able to take advantage of the latest innovations in there is like natural language processing and really gives um computers are kind of much deeper and richer understanding of the internet, which ultimately makes it possible to kind of organize, organized the Internet in terms of the types of content of pages. So this type of technology has only been possible the last two years and we've been using contextual signals since our inception, it's always been massively predictive in terms of audience behaviours, in terms of where advertising is likely to work. And so we've been very fortunate to keep the investment going um and take advantage of many of these innovations that have happened in academia and in kind of uh in adjacent areas >>on the ai machine learning aspect, that seems to be a great differentiator in this day and age for getting the most out of the data. How is machine learning and ai factoring into your platform? >>I think it's, it's how we've always operated right from our interception when we started as a measurement company, the way that we were giving our customers at the time, we were just publishers, just the publisher side of our business insights into who their audience was, were, was using machine learning techniques. And that's never really changed. The foundation of our platform has always been, has always been machine learning from from before. It was cool. A lot of our kind of, a lot of our core teams have backgrounds in machine learning phds in statistics and machine learning and and that really drives our our decision making. I mean, data is only useful if you can make sense of it and if you can organize it and if you can take action on it and to do that at this kind of scout scale, it's absolutely necessary to use machine learning technology. >>So you mentioned contextual also, you know, in advertising, everyone knows in that world that you've got the contextual behavioural dynamics, the behavior that's kind of generally everyone's believing is happening. The consensus is undeniable is that people are wanting to expect an environment where there's trust, there's truth, but also they want to be locked in. They don't wanna get walled into a walled garden, nobody wants to be in the world, are they want to be free to pop around and visit sites is more horizontal scalability than ever before. Yet, the bigger players are becoming walled garden, vertical platforms. So with future of ai the experience is going to come from this data. So the behavior is out there. How do you get that contextual relevance and provide the horizontal scale that users expect? >>Yeah, I think it's I think it's a really good point and we're definitely this kind of tipping point. We think, in the broader industry, I think, you know, every published right, we're really blessed to work with the biggest publishers in the world, all the way through to my mom's vlog, right? So we get to hear the perspectives of publishers at every scale. I think they consistently tell us the same thing, which is they want to more directly connected consumers, they don't wanna be tied into these walled gardens, which dictate how they must present their content and in some cases what content they're allowed to >>present. >>Um and so our job as a company is to really provide level >>the playing field a little bit, >>provide them the same capabilities they're only used to in the walled gardens, but let's give them more choice in terms of how they structure their content, how they organize their content, how they organize their audiences, but make sure that they can fund that effectively by making their audiences in their environments discoverable by marketers measurable by marketers and connect them as directly as possible to make that kind of ad funded economic model as effective in the open Internet as it is in social. And so a lot of the investments we've made over recent years have been really to kind of realize that vision, which is, it should be as easy for a marketer to be able to understand people on the open internet as it is in social media. It should be as effective for them to reach people in the environment is really high quality content as it is on facebook. And so we invest a lot of a lot of our R and D dollars in making that true. We're now live with the Comcast platform, which does exactly that. And as third party cookies go away, it only um only kind of exaggerated or kind of further emphasizes the need for direct connections between brands and publishers. And so we just wanna build the technology that helps make that true and gives the kind of technology to these marketers and publishers to connect and to deliver great experiences without relying on these kind of walled >>gardens. Yeah, the Director Director, Consumer Director audience is a new trend. You're seeing it everywhere. How do you guys support this new kind of signaling from for for that's happening in this new world? How do you ingest the content and just this consent uh signaling? >>Uh we were really fortunate to have an amazing, amazing R and D. Team and, you know, we've had to do all sorts to make this, you need to realize our vision. This has meant things like, you know, we have crawlers which scan the entire internet at this point, extract the content of the pages and kind of make sense of it and organize it uh, and organize it for publishers so they can understand how their audiences overlap with potential competitors or collaborators. But more importantly, organize it for marketers. So you can understand what kind of high impact opportunities are there for them there. So, you know, we've had to we've had to build a lot of technology. We've had to build analytics engines, which can get answers back in seconds so that marketers and publishers can kind of interact with their own data and make sense of it and present it in a way that's compelling and help them drive their strategy as well as their execution. We've had to invest in areas like consent management because we believe that a free and open internet is absolutely reliant on trust and therefore we spend a lot of our time thinking about how do we make it easy for end users to understand who has access to their data and easy for end users to be able to opt out. And uh and as a result of that, we've now got the world's most widely adopted adopted consent management platform. So it's hard to tackle one of these problems without tackling all of them. Were fortunate enough to have had a large enough R and D budget over the last four or five years, make a number investments, everything from consent and identity through context, your signals through the measurement technologies, which really bring advertisers >>and Publishers places together great insight. Last word for you is what's the what's the customer view here as you bring these new capabilities of the platform, uh what's what are you guys seeing as the highlight uh from a platform perspective? >>So the initial response that we've seen from our customers has been very encouraging, both on the publisher side as well as the marketer side. Um I think, you know, one of the things we hear quite a lot is uh you guys are at least putting forth a solution, an actual solution for us to test Peter mentioned measurement, that really is where we started because you cannot optimize what you cannot measure. Um so that that is where his team has started and we have some measurement very, very uh initial capabilities still in alpha, but they are available in the platform for marketers to test out today. Um so the initial response has been very encouraging. People want to engage with us um of course our, you know, our fundamental value proposition, which is that the Qantas platform was never built to be reliant on on third party data. These stale segments like we operate, we've always operated on real time live data. Um The second thing is, is our premium publisher relationships. We have had the privilege of working like Peter said with some of the um biggest publishers, but we also have a very wide footprint. We have first party tags across um over 100 million plus web and mobile destinations. Um and you know, as you must have heard like that sort of first party footprint is going to come in really handy in a world without third party cookies, we are encouraging all of our customers, publishers and marketers to grow their first party data. Um and so that that's something that's a strong point that customers love about us and and lean into it quite a bit. Um So yeah, the initial response has been great. Of course it doesn't hurt that we've made all these are in the investments. We can talk about consent. Um, and you know, I often say that consent, it sounds simple, but it isn't, there's a lot of technology involved, but there's lots of uh legal work involved as it as well. We have a very strong legal team who has expertise built in. So yeah, very good response. Initially >>democratization. Everyone's a publisher. Everyone's a media company. They have to think about being a platform. You guys provide that. So I congratulate Peter. Thanks for dropping the gems there. Shruti, thanks for sharing the product highlights. Thanks for, for your time. Thank you. Okay, this is the quan cast industry summit on the demise of third party cookies. And what's next? The cookie conundrum. The recipe for success with Kwan Cast. I'm john free with the cube. Thanks for watching. Mm

from around the globe it's thecube with digital coverage of exascale day made possible by hewlett packard enterprise welcome everyone to the cube celebration of exascale day ben bennett is here he's an hpc strategist and evangelist at hewlett-packard enterprise ben welcome good to see you good to see you too son hey well let's evangelize exascale a little bit you know what's exciting you uh in regards to the coming of exoskilled computing um well there's a couple of things really uh for me historically i've worked in super computing for many years and i have seen the coming of several milestones from you know actually i'm old enough to remember gigaflops uh coming through and teraflops and petaflops exascale is has been harder than many of us anticipated many years ago the sheer amount of technology that has been required to deliver machines of this performance has been has been us utterly staggering but the exascale era brings with it real solutions it gives us opportunities to do things that we've not been able to do before if you look at some of the the most powerful computers around today they've they've really helped with um the pandemic kovid but we're still you know orders of magnitude away from being able to design drugs in situ test them in memory and release them to the public you know we still have lots and lots of lab work to do and exascale machines are going to help with that we are going to be able to to do more um which ultimately will will aid humanity and they used to be called the grand challenges and i still think of them as that i still think of these challenges for scientists that exascale class machines will be able to help but also i'm a realist is that in 10 20 30 years time you know i should be able to look back at this hopefully touch wood look back at it and look at much faster machines and say do you remember the days when we thought exascale was faster yeah well you mentioned the pandemic and you know the present united states was tweeting this morning that he was upset that you know the the fda in the u.s is not allowing the the vaccine to proceed as fast as you'd like it in fact it the fda is loosening some of its uh restrictions and i wonder if you know high performance computing in part is helping with the simulations and maybe predicting because a lot of this is about probabilities um and concerns is is is that work that is going on today or are you saying that that exascale actually you know would be what we need to accelerate that what's the role of hpc that you see today in regards to sort of solving for that vaccine and any other sort of pandemic related drugs so so first a disclaimer i am not a geneticist i am not a biochemist um my son is he tries to explain it to me and it tends to go in one ear and out the other um um i just merely build the machines he uses so we're sort of even on that front um if you read if you had read the press there was a lot of people offering up systems and computational resources for scientists a lot of the work that has been done understanding the mechanisms of covid19 um have been you know uncovered by the use of very very powerful computers would exascale have helped well clearly the faster the computers the more simulations we can do i think if you look back historically no vaccine has come to fruition as fast ever under modern rules okay admittedly the first vaccine was you know edward jenner sat quietly um you know smearing a few people and hoping it worked um i think we're slightly beyond that the fda has rules and regulations for a reason and we you don't have to go back far in our history to understand the nature of uh drugs that work for 99 of the population you know and i think exascale widely available exoscale and much faster computers are going to assist with that imagine having a genetic map of very large numbers of people on the earth and being able to test your drug against that breadth of person and you know that 99 of the time it works fine under fda rules you could never sell it you could never do that but if you're confident in your testing if you can demonstrate that you can keep the one percent away for whom that drug doesn't work bingo you now have a drug for the majority of the people and so many drugs that have so many benefits are not released and drugs are expensive because they fail at the last few moments you know the more testing you can do the more testing in memory the better it's going to be for everybody uh personally are we at a point where we still need human trials yes do we still need due diligence yes um we're not there yet exascale is you know it's coming it's not there yet yeah well to your point the faster the computer the more simulations and the higher the the chance that we're actually going to going to going to get it right and maybe compress that time to market but talk about some of the problems that you're working on uh and and the challenges for you know for example with the uk government and maybe maybe others that you can you can share with us help us understand kind of what you're hoping to accomplish so um within the united kingdom there was a report published um for the um for the uk research institute i think it's the uk research institute it might be epsrc however it's the body of people responsible for funding um science and there was a case a science case done for exascale i'm not a scientist um a lot of the work that was in this documentation said that a number of things that can be done today aren't good enough that we need to look further out we need to look at machines that will do much more there's been a program funded called asimov and this is a sort of a commercial problem that the uk government is working with rolls royce and they're trying to research how you build a full engine model and by full engine model i mean one that takes into account both the flow of gases through it and how those flow of gases and temperatures change the physical dynamics of the engine and of course as you change the physical dynamics of the engine you change the flow so you need a closely coupled model as air travel becomes more and more under the microscope we need to make sure that the air travel we do is as efficient as possible and currently there aren't supercomputers that have the performance one of the things i'm going to be doing as part of this sequence of conversations is i'm going to be having an in detailed uh sorry an in-depth but it will be very detailed an in-depth conversation with professor mark parsons from the edinburgh parallel computing center he's the director there and the dean of research at edinburgh university and i'm going to be talking to him about the azimoth program and and mark's experience as the person responsible for looking at exascale within the uk to try and determine what are the sort of science problems that we can solve as we move into the exoscale era and what that means for humanity what are the benefits for humans yeah and that's what i wanted to ask you about the the rolls-royce example that you gave it wasn't i if i understood it wasn't so much safety as it was you said efficiency and so that's that's what fuel consumption um it's it's partly fuel consumption it is of course safety there is a um there is a very specific test called an extreme event or the fan blade off what happens is they build an engine and they put it in a cowling and then they run the engine at full speed and then they literally explode uh they fire off a little explosive and they fire a fan belt uh a fan blade off to make sure that it doesn't go through the cowling and the reason they do that is there has been in the past uh a uh a failure of a fan blade and it came through the cowling and came into the aircraft depressurized the aircraft i think somebody was killed as a result of that and the aircraft went down i don't think it was a total loss one death being one too many but as a result you now have to build a jet engine instrument it balance the blades put an explosive in it and then blow the fan blade off now you only really want to do that once it's like car crash testing you want to build a model of the car you want to demonstrate with the dummy that it is safe you don't want to have to build lots of cars and keep going back to the drawing board so you do it in computers memory right we're okay with cars we have computational power to resolve to the level to determine whether or not the accident would hurt a human being still a long way to go to make them more efficient uh new materials how you can get away with lighter structures but we haven't got there with aircraft yet i mean we can build a simulation and we can do that and we can be pretty sure we're right um we still need to build an engine which costs in excess of 10 million dollars and blow the fan blade off it so okay so you're talking about some pretty complex simulations obviously what are some of the the barriers and and the breakthroughs that are kind of required you know to to do some of these things that you're talking about that exascale is going to enable i mean presumably there are obviously technical barriers but maybe you can shed some light on that well some of them are very prosaic so for example power exoscale machines consume a lot of power um so you have to be able to design systems that consume less power and that goes into making sure they're cooled efficiently if you use water can you reuse the water i mean the if you take a laptop and sit it on your lap and you type away for four hours you'll notice it gets quite warm um an exascale computer is going to generate a lot more heat several megawatts actually um and it sounds prosaic but it's actually very important to people you've got to make sure that the systems can be cooled and that we can power them yeah so there's that another issue is the software the software models how do you take a software model and distribute the data over many tens of thousands of nodes how do you do that efficiently if you look at you know gigaflop machines they had hundreds of nodes and each node had effectively a processor a core a thread of application we're looking at many many tens of thousands of nodes cores parallel threads running how do you make that efficient so is the software ready i think the majority of people will tell you that it's the software that's the problem not the hardware of course my friends in hardware would tell you ah software is easy it's the hardware that's the problem i think for the universities and the users the challenge is going to be the software i think um it's going to have to evolve you you're just you want to look at your machine and you just want to be able to dump work onto it easily we're not there yet not by a long stretch of the imagination yeah consequently you know we one of the things that we're doing is that we have a lot of centers of excellence is we will provide well i hate say the word provide we we sell super computers and once the machine has gone in we work very closely with the establishments create centers of excellence to get the best out of the machines to improve the software um and if a machine's expensive you want to get the most out of it that you can you don't just want to run a synthetic benchmark and say look i'm the fastest supercomputer on the planet you know your users who want access to it are the people that really decide how useful it is and the work they get out of it yeah the economics is definitely a factor in fact the fastest supercomputer in the planet but you can't if you can't afford to use it what good is it uh you mentioned power uh and then the flip side of that coin is of course cooling you can reduce the power consumption but but how challenging is it to cool these systems um it's an engineering problem yeah we we have you know uh data centers in iceland where it gets um you know it doesn't get too warm we have a big air cooled data center in in the united kingdom where it never gets above 30 degrees centigrade so if you put in water at 40 degrees centigrade and it comes out at 50 degrees centigrade you can cool it by just pumping it round the air you know just putting it outside the building because the building will you know never gets above 30 so it'll easily drop it back to 40 to enable you to put it back into the machine um right other ways to do it um you know is to take the heat and use it commercially there's a there's a lovely story of they take the hot water out of the supercomputer in the nordics um and then they pump it into a brewery to keep the mash tuns warm you know that's that's the sort of engineering i can get behind yeah indeed that's a great application talk a little bit more about your conversation with professor parsons maybe we could double click into that what are some of the things that you're going to you're going to probe there what are you hoping to learn so i think some of the things that that are going to be interesting to uncover is just the breadth of science that can be uh that could take advantage of exascale you know there are there are many things going on that uh that people hear about you know we people are interested in um you know the nobel prize they might have no idea what it means but the nobel prize for physics was awarded um to do with research into black holes you know fascinating and truly insightful physics um could it benefit from exascale i have no idea uh i i really don't um you know one of the most profound pieces of knowledge in in the last few hundred years has been the theory of relativity you know an austrian patent clerk wrote e equals m c squared on the back of an envelope and and voila i i don't believe any form of exascale computing would have helped him get there any faster right that's maybe flippant but i think the point is is that there are areas in terms of weather prediction climate prediction drug discovery um material knowledge engineering uh problems that are going to be unlocked with the use of exascale class systems we are going to be able to provide more tools more insight [Music] and that's the purpose of computing you know it's not that it's not the data that that comes out and it's the insight we get from it yeah i often say data is plentiful insights are not um ben you're a bit of an industry historian so i've got to ask you you mentioned you mentioned mentioned gigaflop gigaflops before which i think goes back to the early 1970s uh but the history actually the 80s is it the 80s okay well the history of computing goes back even before that you know yes i thought i thought seymour cray was you know kind of father of super computing but perhaps you have another point of view as to the origination of high performance computing [Music] oh yes this is um this is this is one for all my colleagues globally um you know arguably he says getting ready to be attacked from all sides arguably you know um computing uh the parallel work and the research done during the war by alan turing is the father of high performance computing i think one of the problems we have is that so much of that work was classified so much of that work was kept away from commercial people that commercial computing evolved without that knowledge i uh i have done in in in a previous life i have done some work for the british science museum and i have had the great pleasure in walking through the the british science museum archives um to look at how computing has evolved from things like the the pascaline from blaise pascal you know napier's bones the babbage's machines uh to to look all the way through the analog machines you know what conrad zeus was doing on a desktop um i think i think what's important is it doesn't matter where you are is that it is the problem that drives the technology and it's having the problems that requires the you know the human race to look at solutions and be these kicks started by you know the terrible problem that the us has with its nuclear stockpile stewardship now you've invented them how do you keep them safe originally done through the ascii program that's driven a lot of computational advances ultimately it's our quest for knowledge that drives these machines and i think as long as we are interested as long as we want to find things out there will always be advances in computing to meet that need yeah and you know it was a great conversation uh you're a brilliant guest i i love this this this talk and uh and of course as the saying goes success has many fathers so there's probably a few polish mathematicians that would stake a claim in the uh the original enigma project as well i think i think they drove the algorithm i think the problem is is that the work of tommy flowers is the person who took the algorithms and the work that um that was being done and actually had to build the poor machine he's the guy that actually had to sit there and go how do i turn this into a machine that does that and and so you know people always remember touring very few people remember tommy flowers who actually had to turn the great work um into a working machine yeah super computer team sport well ben it's great to have you on thanks so much for your perspectives best of luck with your conversation with professor parsons we'll be looking forward to that and uh and thanks so much for coming on thecube a complete pleasure thank you and thank you everybody for watching this is dave vellante we're celebrating exascale day you're watching the cube [Music]

>> (announcer) Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering Fortinet Accelerate '18. Brought to you by Fortinet. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to the Cube. We are live at Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin, with my co-host, Peter Burris. And we're excited to be joined by Myk Conrad, the VP of Product Management at Ribbon Communications. Myk, welcome to the Cube. >> Well, thank you very much, and it's great to be here. >> So tell us about Ribbon, your Technology Alliance's partner. Tell us about Ribbon Communications, and what you guys do with Fortinet. >> Okay, so a few things. Ribbon Communications, we basically are a security and cloud company, in the voice and video space. So what does that practically mean? That means we sell something called a session border controller, which is a voice and video firewall, into both service providers and into enterprises. So an example would be, when you make a mobile call, with AT&T, or Verizon, or Deutsche Tel, or British Talk, I mean, whoever your particular service provider is, that voice session becomes an IP packet, wends its way through the network, and as it's wending its way through the network, it has to be potentially encrypted, it has to be protected, denial service attacks, all of that stuff, that's what we do. Now how does that work into what Fortinet does? We are a part of their cloud security fabric, and we have the ability, with a new product that we're launching, or have launched this week, or announced this week. It will be actually GA and available in the summer. It will be included in passing information into the security fabric. So we protect voice and video, Fortinet protects data, web, email, you know, everything that they do very well. What we are, what this new product that we call Ribbon Protect is, is going to be a bridge between the voice and video world of IP communications, and the data world that Fortinet works with. And we're going to be passing information and talking between those two worlds, and therefore adding an extra layer of security to that. So that's how we work with them. >> (Peter) So voice and video have some certain special communications requirements, and basically, you're bringing the capacity to do voice video security, and the special requirements associated therein into the Fortinet ecosystem. >> (Mykola) Yeah, so a great example is, so let's use an enterprise as an example, alright? So let's say you're a big bank, somebody along the lines of a Bank of America, and I'm not saying it's Bank of America, or Wells Fargo. I'm not naming anyone, but just along those lines. Big bank. You probably have a SIP trunk, which is an IP trunk, and IP packets for communications coming into a data center, or multiple data centers around the world, and into individual branches of all your retail locations. And those are voice and video packets. And your tellers, or your contact center agents, are picking up the phone, and that's all IP audio and video. Or they might be using a handset, and again, that's all IP to the laptop, or to the handset. And they're having these conversations. You may want to encrypt those conversations. You definitely want to make sure, if a contact center is up, and it's doing mortgage calls, it's taking individual requests for checking account balances, that that contact center stays up. In the world of IP, especially in SIP communications, it's very easy to send a denial service attack against, for example, a contact center, and bring that down. So nothing keeps somebody from generating, from a single laptop, 20 gigabytes, 30 gigabytes, or petabytes worth of calls into a contact center. And that will bring down the infrastructure, unless you're protecting that infrastructure with a download service type of device. Similar, very analogous to what you would see is in a DDoS device that, for example, Fortinet sells, on the data side, to protect your web servers and your email servers, and all the other things, except on the voice side. So that's what we do. And now, with Ribbon Protect, we're going to be taking all the information that we're gleaning, as these ports are being opened and closed, and as we are getting attacked on the voice and video side. so an IP address comes in. We've decided that there's a lot of bad calls coming in from that side of the fence. We blacklist that. We will then pass that information over to the data side of the house. Through the security fabric, we will pass through, and then Fortinet can, on their side, say, "Hey, this is now blacklisted also." So any packets coming from that IP address that are doing something else, that have nothing to do with voice and video, because it's two separate networks, typically, will now be protected. So now the bank has an added level of security. >> (Peter) And Fortinet propagates that, cascades it throughout. >> Cascades it throughout their entire partner ecosystem. >> Right. >> So that's what we do. And we have deep visibility into SIP. So one of the things, as an example, firewalls are very good at opening and closing ports. And the default for most firewalls is port closed. The problem is with SIP it's a phone call. Ports are typically closed. A call comes in, and it's ringing. You answer, and when you answer the UDP port has to be open, so that a media stream can come through and cut through the call, so you can actually have a conversation. Otherwise, the packets will get blocked, and there will be no conversation. You'll get one-way audio, or no audio. We have very good visibility into which ports are being assigned the duration of that call, so when somebody says, "Okay, bye." Hang up, click, and you kill that packet stream, that port will get closed automatically. A lot of firewalls don't do that. They keep the ports open, because they don't know at that SIP level that a call's coming through right this very second for Myk, open the port for three minutes because he's talking to his mom, conversation's over, close the port, because they don't go to that depth of information on the SIP application level. We do, because that's our job. And we then pass that information, say, "Listen, you should be closing this port, or opening this port." We have a lot of visibility that firewalls just don't have. And now, as part of the security fabric, we're going to be passing that information onwards. So now we're going to have a stronger security perimeter for enterprises as well as service providers that are using the combination of our session border controllers, Ribbon Protect, the new product that's coming out, and the Fortinet panoply of products. >> So if I'm a CSO at a bank, and we were speaking with Fortinet's CSO earlier today, and kind of talking about the evolution of that. We talked as well, I think with John Madison, about the security architect. If I'm the CSO at a bank, or a service provider, what is my material value that this technology alliance is going to give to my organization? >> (Mykola) That's a good question. So there's a couple different aspects of this. So let me talk about Ribbon Protect. We frame Ribbon Protect in three different value propositions: one is for telephony fraud, or communications fraud, another one is in cybersecurity threats, and a third one is network visibility. So I'm going to start with network visibility and work my way back up that chain. So there's a value proposition, not necessarily for the CSO, but for the CIO and the people running the communications network, in having really good visibility into the communications network, an end-to end view across multiple different disparate items. So let me give you an example. Typical bank will have Cisco, they might have Juniper, they might also have an Avia system, when it comes to communications, they might have an old Nortel system, they might have some cloud communications from a Vonage, or a Fuse, or Verizon. All these disparate systems, all under this one CIO, and a call comes in, and nothing works. For some reason it's not routing correctly, the contact center agent isn't getting the call. You know, have you ever called, and you get transferred, and you get dropped? That's the problem. And then when they try to troubleshoot that, it's very hard, because there's so many disparate elements. So the first thing you need is visibility. So from a CIO perspective this product, Ribbon Protect, will give you visibility into the network, and that will allow you to troubleshoot and bring the network up. Then you go into the next level. So once you have visibility. So you can't provide security until you have visibility into a network, so now that you've got this N10 visibility, now let's talk about security. Two different types of security threats that our customers are seeing when it comes to communications. One is sort of robo dialing, toll fraud. And I would even put denial service attacks sort of in there. Denial service attacks also go to the next level, which is cybersecurity. But robo dialing: how many of you are getting calls all the time now? I'm getting them on my mobile, literally, I get like three or four a day on my mobile phone from a different random number, because they know my area code and they think if they mask it, it's a friend of mine, and I'll answer the call. That's becoming more and more prevalent. Now think about if you're an enterprise, and if you're a CSO, and now you're tasked with keeping these employees productive, but they're starting to get all these random calls, your contact center agent. And we've actually had this happen to customers of ours, where they picked up the phone and they were getting random garbled noise on the other end. And you're a contact center agent, your job is to sit there, and you hear these weird noises in your earphone, you hang up, next one comes in, it's weird noises. Third one comes in, it's actually a person that is asking about their mortgage. Great. That's your job. But then the next one is some weird ... It brings productivity way down. So there's that one area. And then there's toll fraud, which is in the billions of dollars, now, of cost to both enterprises and service providers, where people are doing things like calling Zambia, or weird little countries, and routing through enterprise networks. So that's another aspect that a CSO would be worried about. And lastly, and the most important one, is the cybersecurity issue. Packet-based denial service attacks across your entire system, that can not only take down your web server and your email server, but also your communications, your real-time communications, but also exfiltration of data. So what we've seen is the following: a hacker comes in through the data side and understands the network typology, puts in some malware, but because they're using something from Fortinet or somebody else, they can't do anything with that information. There's no way out. But here's the SIP network, this UC network, sitting in the system, and it's sort of unguarded, not that there's no guards there in place, but the data side, if you look at everything that Fortinet and others have been putting out, that side of the fence is getting a lot of attention. And over the last few years even more attention, as hacks have taken place, and PII has been stolen. But on the SIP side of the fence, that hasn't really happened as much. And so we believe that's the weakest chain right now, or will soon be the weakest chain. And hackers will use the open ports, because if your just using a firewall, those ports are open. The range of UDP ports to put media through is wide open. It has to be, otherwise it won't work. And so they can exfiltrate data through that. So they use some other means to find the typology of the network, get in, and then they can pass data out through that. And it might look like a good media stream, like a video call, and we've actually seen examples where people have sent video and embedded, underneath that, data inside the video. >> They piggyback. >> And they piggyback it. So you're going to see, the value to the CSO is, listen, if you're concerned about people finding a different way into your network, you're protected against, or you think you're protected against malware, you're protected against email, you're protected against web server attacks. Well have you really thought about the UC side? So if I'm a CSO, I should be really worried about securing that side of my fence, because I haven't been worried about it for the last three or four years, and there's been an increase in attacks, or increasing amount of attacks on that side of the fence. And then there's these other values of Ribbon Protect that hit other aspects of the IT chain. So we believe that there's a, sort of three core value propositions, two that really affect the CSO, and one that's more of a CIO issue. >> Well, look, once a port's open it's open. >> Correct, yeah. >> And video and voice do have characteristics that if a device is set up to introspect it and understand it, then it can recognize it. But as you said, your general-purpose firewall typically is not looking at that. And you don't want to introduce an entirely distinct and separate management platform, and paying, if you don't have to. So the CSO gets to see the same paying, while the CIO gets to ensure that voice and video happens without being hit? >> (Myk) And works. Yes. >> And at the same time, that the CSO is getting the paying that they need, so they have some visibility into what's going on with the network. >> (Myk) Exactly, and that's the entire purpose of this product. We believe it meshes nicely with what Fortinet's talking about, in that they have their Fortiguard Artificial Intelligence product that they've been talking about, and how it's detecting what's going on in the network, and millions of nodes, and features, and really actually quite sophisticated stuff. I just sat through an entire presentation on it. We are doing the same thing with Ribbon Protect, where we have an artificial intelligence layer that would sit inside the company, but it's specifically looking at the communications pathways, what's normal communications, what's abnormal communications. what's normal packet flows on the communications side, and abnormal communication flows. And putting two and two together, and doing machine learning, similar analogous things to what they're doing on the data side, and on the virus malware detection side, is what we're doing on the communications side, and putting together our own database, again, similar to what they have, where they have a database, and they apply that database of known bad, known good, to their ... And we're doing the same thing, and then we're going to share that information into the Fortinet fabric. >> So you're really collaborating and, it sounds like complimentary technologies. >> (Peter) Yeah, you're complimenting. >> That the customer benefits from. We've got about a minute left, but I'd love for you to share, maybe at a super high level, an example of a joint Fortinet/Ribbon customer, where the CIO and the CSO are being very happy with the technologies that you are delivering in this collaboration. >> I can't name any names, unfortunately, but we are talking with a large service provider right now, that is very enamored of Fortinet, and uses them extensively on the data side, to provide services to their customers, meaning: as a service provider, you're providing data and managed services to your enterprise customers. And they also use us today to provide voice services - >> (Peter) To secure voice. >> To secure voice services to the same set of customers. And so now what we're talking about is marrying the two, not sending data to Fortinet, and what is getting this service provider very excited is to be able to offer a differentiated service to their enterprise customer base, something that the other service providers can't, because they either aren't using Fortinet, or aren't using us. They need somebody that is using both, and this particular one happens to be using both of us, so we can put Ribbon Protect into their environment, into their network, and it'll start sharing their information, and what that will allow them to do is market to their customers at a higher level of security, and even to the point where they might be able to go out and say things like, "The most secure voice video system in the world today." >> (Peter) Yeah. They're expanding the scope of a common security footprint, and thereby allowing a new class of services to be provided to, whether CSO or CIO. >> And they view it as a differentiator for themselves. >> (Lisa) That's exactly what I was thinking - >> Which is why, when they're talking to the CSO or the CIO, why should you use us versus the other three guys you're probably talking to right now, well here's one reason. There's probably a few others, but here's at least one reason. >> Differentiation, a key fundamental for digital transformation. Well Myk, Mykola, thank you so much for joining us on the Cube. You're now a Cube alumni. >> Thank you very much, happy to be an alumni. >> (Lisa) Excellent. We want to thank you for watching the Cube's continuing coverage of Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin. For my co-host, Peter Burris, stick around. We've got great interviews coming up next. (upbeat music)

>> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're in San Francisco at the Professional Business Women of California Conference, the 28th year, I think Hillary must be in the neighborhood because everyone is streaming up to the keynote rooms. It's getting towards the end of the day. But we're excited to have Adam Smiley on. He's the author of The Quarter-Life Breakthrough. Welcome Adam. >> Great to be here, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So you gave a talk a little bit earlier on, I assume the theme of kind of your general thing. Would you just, Quarter-Life Breakthrough, what is Quarter-Life Breakthrough? >> So this is a book about how to empower the next generation. How young people can find meaning in their careers and their lives. So the subtitle of the book is Invent Your Own Path, Find Meaningful Work, and Build a Life That Matters. So everyone talks about millennials, you hear them in the news, "Oh they're the lazy generation," >> Right, right. >> "The entitled generation." The Me, Me, Me generation. I actually think that couldn't be further from the truth. So the truth is that actually 50% of millennials would take a pay cut to find work that matches their values. 90% want to use their skills for good. So my book is a guide for people to find purpose in their careers and really help them find meaning at the workplace and help companies empower that generation at work. >> So from being the older guy, so then is it really incumbent, you know, because before people didn't work for good, they worked for paycheck, right. They went, they punched in, they got paid, they went home. So is it really incumbent then on the employers now to find purposeful work? And how much of it has to be purposeful? I mean, unfortunately, there's always some of that, that grimy stuff that you just have to do. So what's the balance? >> Yeah and it's not to say that millennials don't want a paycheck, everyone wants money. I obviously want to make more money than less money. But it's also that this generation is really looking for meaning in the workplace. And one of the main things, if you look at all the studies, whether it's the Deloitte Millennial Study or the IBM Study, this is a generation that wants to move the needle forward on social issues at work. Not just after work or on the weekends, but at the workplace. And I think it's incumbent upon companies to really think about how they're providing those opportunities for purpose. Both in the mission of the company, what someone's doing every day, and opportunities outside of work, whether it's service projects, paid sabbaticals for people to do purpose-driven projects, really thinking about how someone is inspired to do mission during work every day. >> Right, it's interesting, Bev Crair at the keynote talked about, the question I think was, do you have to separate, kind of your personal views from your professional views and your social life? And she made a very powerful statement, she's like, "I'm comfortable enough with my employer that I can say what I feel and if there's ever a question they can ask me about it. But I don't gait what I say based on my employer as long as I'm being honest and truthful." So you know it's an interesting twist on an old theme. Where before you kind of had your separate worlds. You know, you had your work life and your home life, but now between email and text and social media, there is no kind of they're there for work and it's really invaded into the personal. So is that why the personal has to kind of invade back into the work? >> And when it comes to millennials, one word that always comes up is authenticity. People do not want to separate who they are at home from who they are at work. They want to be their whole person. Now obviously there's a line you don't cross. I'm not going to tell someone exactly what I think of them or tell the boss to go screw themselves or insult somebody or put on social media something that's secret that we're doing at the company. But I think that people want to feel that they get to show up who they are, have their beliefs echoed at the workplace, be able to be their full self, their full values, their mission, their goals, have that reflected in what they do, and have people at the company actually acknowledge that. You're not just an employee, I actually know what's going on in your life. I know what your dreams are, I know what your family's going through. I care about where you're headed, not just today or while you work here, but when you leave the company. Because that's the other thing, is that we're accepting that most of the people entering the workforce now or starting a new job, they're going to be there on average two to three years, maybe four, five, or six years. They're not going to be there ten, fifteen, twenty years like they used to be. So how do you actually empower someone to make an impact while they're there. And help them find the next lily pad, as they call it. The next opportunity. Because they're going to have a lot of those lily pads as they go throughout their career. >> It's interesting. We interviewed a gal named Marcia Conrad at an IBM event many years ago. She just made a really funny observation, she's like, "You know, people come in and you interview them and they're these really cool people and that's why you hire them, because they've got all these personality traits and habits and hobbies and things that they do, and energy." And then they come into the company, and then the old-school, you drop the employee, you know manual on top of them, basically saying stop being you. Stop being the person that we just hired. So that's completely flipped up on its head. >> Right, one of the things I talked about in the session today was this idea of stay interviews versus exit interviews. Normally when we do performance managements, kind of like, okay, you're leaving, what did you think? Why are you doing that when someone leaves? Do it to be like, what would make you stay? What do you want to accomplish while you're here? And you're not being graded against what everyone else is being graded on, what do you want to be graded on? What are your goals? What are your metrics for success? Performance achievement versus just performance measurement. I think is very important for this generation, because otherwise it's like, well why am I being judged on the standards that were written in 1986? This is what I'm trying to do here. >> It's interesting, even Jeff Immelt at GE, they've thrown out the annual review because it's a silly thing. You kind of collect your data two weeks before and the other fifty weeks everybody is just working. I have another hypothesis I want to run by you though. On this kind of purpose-driven. Today so many more things are as a service, transportation as a service, you know there seems to be less emphasis on things and more emphasis on experiences. It also feels like it's easier to see your impact whether it's writing a line of code, or doing something in social media. And you know there was an interesting campaign, Casey Neistat did, participated a couple weeks ago, right. They raised $2 million and basically got Turkish Airlines to fly in a couple hundred thousand metric tons of food to Somalia. And my question is, is it just because you can do those things so much easier and see an impact? Is that why, kind of this, increased purposefulness, I'm struggling on the word. >> I think the tools are certainly more available for people to take action. I think the connection is there. People are seeing what's going on in the world in a way that they've never been exposed to before with social media, with communication technology. It's up front and center. I think also that as technology takes over our lives, you see this with kind of statistics around depression and anxiety, people are starved for that in-person connection. They're starved for that meaning, that actual conversation. We're always doing this, but really a lot of data shows that people experience true joy, true fulfillment, true connection, true experience is what you're talking about, when they're in a room with someone. So people want that. So it's kind of a return back to that purpose-driven life, that purpose-driven tribe, village experience because the rest of the time we're on our phones. And yeah, it's cool, but something's missing. So people are starting to go back to work and be like, "I want that inspiration" that other generations may have gotten from church or from outside of work, or from their community, or from their village, or from the elders, or from a youth group or something. They're like, "I want that in the workplace. I want that everyday." >> Well so this is more top-down right? I mean I just think again, kind of the classic, back in the day, you were kind of compelled to give x percentage of your pay to United Way or whatever. And that was like this big aggregation mechanism that would roll up the money and distribute it to God-knows-where. Completely different model than, and you can see, because of social media and ubiquitous cell phones all over the place, you can actually see who that kid is, that's getting your thing on the other side. >> And it's empowering someone to say, "Okay this is what's important to me. These are the causes that I'd like to support. This is where I want my money to go and here's why." >> So what do you think's the biggest misunderstanding of millennials from old people like me or even older hopefully? >> Well one thing that I do think that millennials don't get right is the importance of patience. I think a lot of times people say, you know, "oh millennials, they want things to happen too quickly." I think that that's true. I think that my generation, I'm going to be the first to admit and say that we need to do a better job of being patient, being persistent. You can't expect things to happen overnight. You can't expect to start a job and in two months get promoted or to feel like you're with the Board of Directors. Things take time. At the same time, it's incumbent upon older generations to listen to these young people, to make them feel like they have a voice, to make them feel like they're heard and that their ideas matter, even if they don't have the final say, to make them feel like they actually matter. Because I think sometimes people assume that they don't know anything. They don't know everything, but they have some really brilliant ideas and if you listen to those ideas they might actually be really good for the company both in terms of profit and purpose. So that's one thing I would say. >> Okay, just, so first time with this show, just get your impressions of the show. >> Oh it's great. This is a great show. You all are doing a great job, a great interview. >> No not our show. The PBWC, I mean of course we're doing a good job, we have you on. I mean the PBWC. >> It's a great, you know for me, it's real exciting to be at the end of an event where I'm one of the only male speakers. Because usually, I've been doing the speaking circuit thing now for a year or two. And I go to these events, I go to panels, I go to conferences, keynotes, and it's mostly male speakers, which is a huge problem. There's far far far fewer women and people of color speaking at these events than men. And one of the things I'm really trying to change is that but also pay equity around speaking, because I talked to some of my female colleagues about what they were paid for a specific event, and they'll say, "Well they covered my transportation, they covered my lift and a salad, or my hotel maybe." I'm like, well I got paid $5000. That's messed up. We did the same amount of work. We did the same panel or doing the same keynote, similar experience levels. That's messed up. And so I'm trying to change that by doing this thing called the Women Speaker Initiative. Which is a mentorship program to empower more women and people of color to be speakers and then to make sure that they're paid fairly when compared to men. >> So how do people get involved with that? >> They should just got to my website, smileyposwolsky.com and check out Women Speaker Initiative. >> Alright, well Adam, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. Great great topic and I'm sure, look forward to catching up again later. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Alright. He's Adam, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We're at the Professional Business Women of California conference, twenty eighth year. Thanks for watching.