>> (Narrator) The CUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding by Dell Technologies. Creating technologies that drive human progress. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Fira Barcelona. It's theCUBE live at MWC23 our third day of coverage of this great, huge event continues. Lisa Martin and Dave Nicholson here. We've got Dell and Dish here, we are going to be talking about what they're doing together. Andy Sheahen joins as global director of Telecom Cloud Core and Next Gen Ops at Dell. And Marc Rouanne, one of our alumni is back, EVP and Chief Network Officer at Dish Wireless. Welcome guys. >> Great to be here. >> (Both) Thank you. >> (Lisa) Great to have you. Mark, talk to us about what's going on at Dish wireless. Give us the update. >> Yeah so we've built a network from scratch in the US, that covered the US, we use a cloud base Cloud native, so from the bottom of the tower all the way to the internet uses cloud distributed cloud, emits it, so there are a lot of things about that. But it's unique, and now it's working, so we're starting to play with it and that's pretty cool. >> What's some of the proof points, proof in the pudding? >> Well, for us, first of all it was to do basic voice and data on a smartphone and for me the success would that you won't see the difference for a smartphone. That's base line. the next step is bringing this to the enterprise for their use case. So we've covered- now we have services for smartphones. We use our brand, Boost brand, and we are distributing that across the US. But as I said, the real good stuff is when you start to making you know the machines and all the data and the applications for the enterprise. >> Andy, how is Dell a facilitator of what Marc just described and the use cases and what their able to deliver? >> We're providing a number of the servers that are being used out in their radio access network. The virtual DU servers, we're also providing some bare metal orchestration capabilities to help automate the process of deploying all these hundreds and thousands of nodes out in the field. Both of these, the servers and the bare metal orchestra product are things that we developed in concert with Dish, working together to understand the way, the best way to automate, based on the tooling their using in other parts of their network, and we've been with you guys since day one, really. >> (Marc) Absolutely, yeah. >> Making each others solutions better the whole way. >> Marc, why Dell? >> So, the way the networks work is you have a cloud, and you have a distributed edge you need someone who understands the diversity of the edge in order to bring the cloud software to the edge, and Dell is the best there, you know, you can, we can ask them to mix and match accelerators, processors memory, it's very diverse distributed edge. We are building twenty thousands sides so you imagine the size and the complexity and Dell was the right partner for that. >> (Andy) Thank you. >> So you mentioned addressing enterprise leads, which is interesting because there's nothing that would prevent you from going after consumer wireless technically, right but it sounds like you have taken a look at the market and said "we're going to go after this segment of the market." >> (Marc) Yeah. >> At least for now. Are there significant differences between what an enterprise expects from a 5G network than, verses a consumer? >> Yeah. >> (Dave) They have higher expectations, maybe, number one I guess is, if my bill is 150 dollars a month I can have certain levels of expectations whereas a large enterprise the may be making a much more significant investment, are their expectations greater? >> (Marc) Yeah. >> Do you have a higher bar to get over? >> So first, I mean first we use our network for consumers, but for us it's an enterprise. That's the consumer segment, an enterprise. So we expose the network like we would to a car manufacturer, or to a distributor of goods of food and beverage. But what you expect when you are an enterprise, you expect, manage your services. You expect to control the goodness of your services, and for this you need to observe what's happening. Are you delivering the right service? What is the feedback from the enterprise users, and that's what we call the observability. We have a data centric network, so our enterprises are saying "Yeah connecting is enough, but show us how it works, and show us how we can learn from the data, improve, improve, and become more competitive." That's the big difference. >> So what you say Marc, are some of the outcomes you achieved working with Dell? TCO, ROI, CapX, OpX, what are some of the outcomes so far, that you've been able to accomplish? >> Yeah, so obviously we don't share our numbers, but we're very competitive. Both on the CapX and the OpX. And the second thing is that we are much faster in terms of innovation, you know one of the things that Telecorp would not do, was to tap into the IT industry. So we access to the silicon and we have access to the software and at a scale that none of the Telecorp could ever do and for us it's like "wow" and it's a very powerful industry and we've been driving the consist- it's a bit technical but all the silicone, the accelerators, the processors, the GPU, the TPUs and it's like wow. It's really a transformation. >> Andy, is there anything anagallis that you've dealt with in the past to the situation where you have this true core edge, environment where you have to instrument the devices that you provide to give that level of observation or observability, whatever the new word is, that we've invented for that. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I mean has there, is there anything- >> Yeah absolutely. >> Is this unprecedented? >> No, no not at all. I mean Dell's been really working at the edge since before the edge was called the edge right, we've been selling, our hardware and infrastructure out to retail shops, branch office locations, you know just smaller form factors outside of data centers for a very long time and so that's sort of the consistency from what we've been doing for 30 years to now the difference is the volume, the different number of permutations as Marc was saying. The different type of accelerator cards, the different SKUS of different server types, the sheer volume of nodes that you have in a nationwide wireless network. So the volumes are much different, the amount of data is much different, but the process is really the same. It's about having the infrastructure in the right place at the right time and being able to understand if it's working well or if it's not and it's not just about a red light or a green light but healthy and unhealthy conditions and predicting when the red lights going to come on. And we've been doing that for a while it's just a different scale, and a different level of complexity when you're trying to piece together all these different components from different vendors. >> So we talk a lot about ecosystem, and sometimes because of the desire to talk about the outcomes and what the end users, customers, really care about sometimes we will stop at the layer where say a Dell lives, and we'll see that as the sum total of the component when really, when you talk about a server that Dish is using that in and of itself is an ecosystem >> Yep, yeah >> (Dave) or there's an ecosystem behind it you just mentioned it, the kinds of components and the choices that you make when you optimize these devices determine how much value Dish, >> (Andy) Absolutely. >> Can get out of that. How deep are you on that hardware? I'm a knuckle dragging hardware guy. >> Deep, very deep, I mean just the number of permutations that were working through with Dish and other operators as well, different accelerator cards that we talked about, different techniques for timing obviously there's different SKUs with the silicon itself, different chip sets, different chips from different providers, all those things have to come together, and we build the basic foundation and then we also started working with our cloud partners Red Hat, Wind River, all these guys, VM Ware, of course and that's the next layer up, so you've got all the different hardware components, you've got the extraction layer, with your virtualization layer and or ubernetise layer and all of that stuff together has to be managed compatibility matrices that get very deep and very big, very quickly and that's really the foundational challenge we think of open ran is thinking all these different pieces are going to fit together and not just work today but work everyday as everything gets updated much more frequently than in the legacy world. >> So you care about those things, so we don't have to. >> That's right. >> That's the beauty of it. >> Yes. >> Well thank you. (laughter) >> You're welcome. >> I want to understand, you know some of the things that we've been talking about, every company is a data company, regardless of whether it's telco, it's a retailer, if it's my bank, it's my grocery store and they have to be able to use data as quickly as possible to make decisions. One of the things they've been talking here is the monetization of data, the monetization of the network. How do you, how does Dell help, like a Dish be able to achieve the monetization of their data. >> Well as Marc was saying before the enterprise use cases are what we are all kind of betting on for 5G, right? And enterprises expect to have access to data and to telemetry to do whatever use cases they want to execute in their particular industry, so you know, if it's a health care provider, if it's a factory, an agricultural provider that's leveraging this network, they need to get the data from the network, from the devices, they need to correlate it, in order to do things like automatically turn on a watering system at a certain time, right, they need to know the weather around make sure it's not too windy and you're going to waste a lot of water. All that has data, it's going to leverage data from the network, it's going to leverage data from devices, it's going to leverage data from applications and that's data that can be monetized. When you have all that data and it's all correlated there's value, inherit to it and you can even go onto a forward looking state where you can intelligently move workloads around, based on the data. Based on the clarity of the traffic of the network, where is the right place to put it, and even based on current pricing for things like on demand insists from cloud providers. So having all that data correlated allows any enterprise to make an intelligent decision about how to move a workload around a network and get the most efficient placing of that workload. >> Marc, Andy mentions things like data and networks and moving data across the networks. You have on your business card, Chief Network Officer, what potentially either keeps you up at night in terror or gets you very excited about the future of your network? What's out there in the frontier and what are those key obstacles that have to be overcome that you work with? >> Yeah, I think we have the network, we have the baseline, but we don't yet have the consumption that is easy by the enterprise, you know an enterprise likes to say "I have 4K camera, I connect it to my software." Click, click, right? And that's where we need to be so we're talking about it APIs that are so simple that they become a click and we engineers we have a tendency to want to explain but we should not, it should become a click. You know, and the phone revolution with the apps became those clicks, we have to do the same for the enterprise, for video, for surveillance, for analytics, it has to be clicks. >> While balancing flexibility, and agility of course because you know the folks who were fans of CLIs come in light interfaces, who hate gooeys it's because they feel they have the ability to go down to another level, so obviously that's a balancing act. >> But that's our job. >> Yeah. >> Our job is to hide the complexity, but of course there is complexity. It's like in the cloud, an emprise scaler, they manage complex things but it's successful if they hide it. >> (Dave) Yeah. >> It's the same. You know we have to be emprise scaler of connectivity but hide it. >> Yeah. >> So that people connect everything, right? >> Well it's Andy's servers, we're all magicians hiding it all. >> Yeah. >> It really is. >> It's like don't worry about it, just know, >> Let us do it. >> Sit down, we will serve you the meal. Don't worry how it's cooked. >> That's right, the enterprises want the outcome. >> (Dave) Yeah. >> They don't want to deal with that bottom layer. But it is tremendously complex and we want to take that on and make it better for the industry. >> That's critical. Marc I'd love to go back to you and just I know that you've been in telco for such a long time and here we are day three of MWC the name changed this year, from Mobile World Congress, reflecting mobilism isn't the only thing, obviously it was the catalyst, but what some of the things that you've heard at the event, maybe seen at the event that give you the confidence that the right players are here to help move Dish wireless forward, for example. >> You know this is the first, I've been here for decades it's the first time, and I'm a Chief Network Officer, first time we don't talk about the network. >> (Andy) Yeah. >> Isn't that surprising? People don't tell me about speed, or latency, they talk about consumption. Apps, you know videos surveillance, or analytics or it's, so I love that, because now we're starting to talk about how we can consume and monetize but that's the first time. We use to talk about gigabytes and this and that, none of that not once. >> What does that signify to you, in terms of the evolution? >> Well you know, we've seen that the demand for the healthcare, for the smart cities, has been here for a decade, proof of concepts for a decade but the consumption has been behind and for me this is the oldest team is waking up to we are going to make it easy, so that the consumption can take off. The demand is there, we have to serve it. And the fact that people are starting to say we hide the complexity that's our problem, but don't even mention it, I love it. >> Yep. Drop the mic. >> (Andy and Marc) Yeah, yeah. >> Andy last question for you, some of the things we know Dell has a big and verging presents in telco, we've had a chance to see the booth, see the cool things you guys are featuring there, Dave did a great tour of it, talk about some of the things you've heard and maybe even from customers at this event that demonstrate to you that Dell is going in the right direction with it's telco strategy. >> Yeah, I mean personally for me this has been an unbelievable event for Dell we've had tons and tons of customer meetings of course and the feedback we're getting is that the things we're bring to market whether it's infrablocks, or purposeful servers that are designed for the telecom network are what our customers need and have always wanted. We get a lot of wows, right? >> (Lisa) That's nice. >> "Wow we didn't know Dell was doing this, we had no idea." And the other part of it is that not everybody was sure that we were going to move as fast as we have so the speed in which we've been able to bring some of these things to market and part of that was working with Dish, you know a pioneer, to make sure we were building the right things and I think a lot of the customers that we talked to really appreciate the fact that we're doing it with the industry, >> (Lisa) Yeah. >> You know, not at the industry and that comes across in the way they are responding and what their talking to us about now. >> And that came across in the interview that you just did. Thank you both for joining Dave and me. >> Thank you >> Talking about what Dell and Dish are doing together the proof is in the pudding, and you did a great job at explaining that, thanks guys, we appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> All right, our pleasure. For our guest and for Dave Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from MWC 23 day three. We will be back with our next guest, so don't go anywhere. (upbeat music)

(techno intro music) >> Hey everyone, good afternoon from sin city. This is Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We are in full swing of theCUBE's four days of coverage of AWS re:invent 2022. North of 50,000 people are here. We're nearing hundreds of thousands online. Dave, this has been, this is a great event. We've had great conversations. We're going to be having more conversations. One of the things we love talking about on theCUBE is AWS and its ecosystem of partners, and we are going to do just that right now. Brian Henderson joins us, Director of Marketing at Dell Technologies. Marc Trimuschat, Director of Worldwide Storage Specialists at AWS is also here. Guys, it's great to have you. >> Great to be here. >> Great to be here, yeah. Feeling the energy of the show. >> Isn't it great? >> Mark: I know, amazing. >> It's amazing. It started out high and it has not dropped since Monday night. Brian, talk a little bit about Dell, what you're doing with customers on their Cloud journeys. Every customer, every industry is on one at different points in their journey, but what's Dell helping out with there? >> What we're here to talk about is the progression that we've seen, right, Cloud has changed a lot over the years and Dell has really put out a strategy to help people with their Cloud journey, kind of wherever they are. So a lot of people have moved full shift. A lot of people see that as another location, and what we're showing at the booth is the idea of taking these enterprise capabilities that people know and trust from Dell, courting them to the Cloud. In some cases not courting, but just delivering that software in the Cloud, as well as taking some of the Kubernetes integrations, EKS Anywhere, bringing that on-prem. So we've got some storage, data protection, and our Kubernetes integration to talk about at the show. >> Awesome, Mark, talk about the role from Amazon's point of view that third party vendors like Dell Technologies plays in AWS's expanding vision of Cloud. >> Great, well, we're really excited to be partnering with Dell. What we see that historically is, you know, AWS is focused on builders, people, and really the developer community who are building those components themselves, putting together really resilient infrastructure and applications. What we're seeing today is a shift also to the type of customers that we're seeing, more traditional enterprise customers, who are demanding really performance, the scalability, also the resiliency of what they had on-premises, and they want that on the Cloud as well. So with Dell, and we've got some great solutions that we're partnering on, including Dell PowerFlex that provides that linear scalability and some of the high performance capabilities that customers are demanding. And also, another big trend that we're seeing is customers being affected by things like unfortunately malware events, right, and data protection. So Dell provides some great solutions in both those areas that allow enterprise customers to really experience that mission critical capability and resiliency that they have on-premises in the Cloud. >> You know, Brian, we've been at this a long time. >> Brian: Oh yeah, great to see you again. >> And I've been hearing my whole career that storage is going to get commoditized. And I guess if you're talking about spinning discs or flash drives, it's probably true, but as Mark was just saying if you want resilient storage and things that are recoverable, that don't go down all the time, they're not commodities. >> Brian: Yeah. >> It's real engineering. And you built the stack up, so talk about how that connection, what value you bring to the Cloud and your customers. >> Yeah, so what we see is people are always looking out for enterprise grade capabilities. So there's going to be a set of offerings, and AWS has a fantastic foundation for building on top of with the marketplace. So what we're able to do is really bring, in some cases, decades worth of investment in software engineering and put these advanced capabilities, whether it be PowerFlex with its linear scale. We'll have a file offering very soon. These products have been built from the ground up to do a very unique purpose. Giving that to people in the Cloud is just another location for us, AWS being the market leader. We're the market leader in storage. So us working together for the benefit of customers is really where it's at. >> Can you double click on that, Brian, what Dell and AWS? Give us all those juicy details. >> Sure, sure, sure, so what we've done right before this show is we put a product called PowerFlex, if you go back to 2018 scale IO, and you're taking this really linear scaling software defined architecture, and you're putting that in the Cloud. What that allows you to do is get that really advanced linear scale performance. You can even span clusters across AWS regions, as well as zones. So it's a really unique capability that allows us to be able to check in and do that. And in the data protection space, it's a whole separate category. We've been at this actually quite a while. We've got about 14 exo bytes of data that's already being protected on the AWS Cloud. So we've been at that for quite a while. And the two levels are really, do you want to back that up? Do you want to take a traditional back up application, maybe it's a lift and shift, and I want to back it up the way I used to, and you can do that in the Cloud now. Or we're seeing cyber resiliency come up a lot more, and we were just talking right before, it's a question of when, not if, and so we have to give our customers the option to not only detect that failure event early, but also to separate that copy with a logical air gap. >> The cyber resiliency is a topic we are talking more and more about. It's absolutely critical. We've seen the threat landscape change dramatically in the last couple of years. To your point, Brian, it's no longer, when we think of ransomware, it's no longer are we going to get hit? It's when, it's how often. What's the damage going to be? I think I saw a stat recently that there's one ransomware attack every 11 seconds. The average cost of reaches is in the millions, so what you're doing together on cyber resiliency for businesses in any industry is table stakes. >> Yeah, we just saw a survey that, it was done earlier this year survey, 66% unfortunately of corporations have experienced a malware attack. And that's an 80% increase from last year. >> Lisa: Wow. >> So again, I think that's an opportunity. It's a threat, but an opportunity, and so the partnership with Dell really helps bridge that and helps our customers, our mutual customers, recover from those incidents. >> A lot of people might say, this is interesting. A storage guy from Amazon, a storage guy from Dell, two leaders. And one might think, why didn't they just throw in a dash three, right, but you guys are both customer driven, customer obsessed. In the field, what are customers saying to you in terms of how they want you to work together? >> Well I think there's a place for everything. When you say throw in to S3, so S3 today, one of the big trends when you're looking here is just the amount of data, you know, we hear that rhetoric, you know, we've been in storage for many years, and the data has all increased up and to the right. But, you know, AWSI, S3 today, we have over 280 trillion objects in our, driving a hundred million transactions per second right now, so that's scale. So there's always a place for those really, we have hundreds of thousands of customers running their data links, so that's always going to be that really, you know, highly reliable, highly durable, high available solution for data links. But customers, there's a lot of different applications out there. So where customers are asking are those enterpise. So we have EBS, for example, which is our great, you know, scalable block search, elastic block store. We introduced some new volume types, like GP2, GP2, and IO2VX, which will have that performance. But there's still single availability zone. So what customers have done historically is they maybe the application layer, they put an application layer replication or resiliency across, but customers on-prem, they've relied on storage layers to do that work for them. So, with PowerFlex, that'll stand either using instant storage or EBS, building on that really strong foundation, but provide that additional layer to make it easy for customers to get that resiliency and that scalability that Brian talked about. >> Yep, yep. >> Anything you can add to that? >> Yeah, I mean to your question, how do we work together is really, it's all customer driven. So we see customers that are shifting workloads in the Cloud for the first time. And it might make sense to take an object, like PowerFlex or another storage technology, maybe you want to compress it a little bit before you send it to the Cloud. Maybe you don't want to lift and shift everything. So we have a team of people that works very closely with AWS to be able to determine how are you going to shift that workload out there? Does this make the right sense for you? So it's a very collaborative relationship. And it's all very customer driven because our customers are saying, I've got assets in the public Cloud, and I want them to be managed in a similar fashion to how I'm doing that on-prem. >> So customer obsession is clearly on both sides there. We know that. >> It's where it starts. >> Exactly, exactly. Going back to PowerFlex for a second, Brian, and I'd love to get an example of a joint customer that really is showing the value of what Dell and AWS are doing together. The question for you on PowerFlex, talk about the value that it offers to the public Cloud. And why should customers start there if they are early in this journey? >> All right, yeah, so the two angles are basically, are you coming from PowerFlex or you're coming from Cloud. If you're Cloud native, the advantage would be things like a really, really advanced block file system that has been built from the ground up to be software defined and pretty much Cloud native. What you're getting is that really linear scale up to about 1,000 nodes. You can span that across regions, across availability zones, so it's highly resilient. So if there's a node failure in one site, you're going to rebuild really fast, depending on the size of that cluster. So it's a very advanced architecture that's been built to run, you know, we didn't have to change a single line of code to run this product in the Cloud because it was Cloud native by default, so. >> Well that's the thing. We also see, and you've seen that with some of the other solutions, but customers really want that. Enterprise customers are, they want us to make sure those mission critical applications are working and stay up. So they also want to use the same environment. So we were talking before, we also see use cases where maybe they're using PowerFlex on-premises today and they want to be able to replicate that to PowerFlex that's in the Cloud. So we're seeing those, and the familiarity with that infrastructure really is that easy path, if you will, for those more conservative mission critical customers. >> We've learned a lot over the years from AWS's entry into the marketplace. Two recent teams working backwards. We talk about customer obsession. And also the Cloud experience. It brings me to APEX. >> Oh yeah. >> Dave: How does APEX fit in here? >> Yeah, so APEX is the categorization for all the things that we're doing around a modern Cloud experience for Dell customers. So we're taking them also on a journey, kind of as a service model. There's a do-it-yourself model. And anything that we do that touches Cloud is now being kind of put under that APEX moniker. So everything that we're doing around Project Alpine, enterprise software capabilities in the Cloud. Do you want someone else to manage it for you? Do you want it in a polo? That might be the right fit for you. It's all under that APEX umbrella and journey. So we're kind of still just getting started there, but we're seeing a lot of great traction. People want to pay as they go, you know, it's a very popular model that AWS has pretty much set the foundation for. So pay as you go, utility based pricing, this is all things our customers have been asking for. >> Yeah, so APEX, you basically set a baseline. You can dial it up, dial it down, very much pay by the drink. >> Absolutely. >> And, you know, like you said, it's early days. >> Brian: Yeah. >> But that's, again, AWS has influenced the business in a lot of different ways. >> Again, with the Dell, you know, the trust customers that Dell has built over the years and having those customers come in. We obviously are getting, again, it's an accelerated option for financial services to healthcare and all these customers that have relied on Dell for years, moving to the Cloud, having that trusted name and also that infrastructure that's similar and familiar to them. And then the resilience of the foundation that we have at AWS, I think it works really well together for those customers. >> I think it underscores to the majority of both AWS and in a lot of ways Dell, right. In the early days of Cloud, it was like uh oh, and now it's like oh, actually big market. Customers are demanding this. There's new value that we can create working together. Let's do it. >> Yeah, I mean, it didn't take us that long to get to it, but I'd say we had little fits and starts over the years, and now we've recognized like, this is where the future is. It's going to be Cloud, it's going to be on-prem, it's going to be Edge, it's going to be everything. It's going to be an and world. And so just doing the right thing for customers I think is exactly where we landed. It's a great partnership. >> Do you have a favorite customer story that you think really shines the light on the value of the Dell AWS partnership in terms of the business impact they're making? >> We have several large customers that I can't always like drop the names, but one of them is a very large video game production company. And we do a lot of work together where they're rendering maybe in house, they're sending to a shared location. They're copying data over to S3. They're able to let all their editors access that. They bring it back when it's compressed down a little bit and deliver that. We're also doing a lot of work with, I think I can say this, Amazon Thursday night football games. So what they've done there, it's a partner of ours working with AWS. All the details inside of that roaming truck that they drive around, there's a lot of Dell gear within there, and then everything connects back to AWS for that exact same kind of model. We need to get to the editors on a nightly basis. They're also streaming directly form that truck while they're enabling the editors to access a shared copy of it, so it's really powerful stuff. >> Thursday night prime is pretty cool. You know, some people are complaining cause I can't just switch channels during the commercials. It's like, first of all, you can. Second of all, the stats are unbelievable, right. You can just do your own replay when you want to. There's some cool innovations there. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. >> Very cool innovations. I've got one more question for each of you before we wrap. Marc, a question for you, we're making a fun Instagram reel. So think about a sizzle reel of if you were to summarize the show so far, what is AWS's message to its massive audience this year? >> Well, that's a big question. Because we have such a wide, as we mentioned, such a wide ranging audience. I really see a couple key trends that we're trying to address. One is, again don't forget, I'm a storage guy, so it's going to come from an angle from data, right. So, I think it's just this volume of data and that customers are bringing into the Cloud, either moving in from enterprises today or organically, just growing. You know, a couple years ago, megabytes were a lot, and now, you know, we're talking about petabytes every day. Soon it's going to be exo bytes are going to become the norm. So the big, I'd say, point one is the trend that I see is just the volume of data. And so what we're doing to address that is obviously we talked a little bit about S3 and being able to manage volumes of data, but also things like DataZone that we introduced because customers are looking to make sure that the right governance and controls to be able to access that data. So I think that's one big thing that I see the theme for the show today. The second thing is around, as I said, really these enterprise customers really wanted to move in these mission critical applications into the Cloud, and having that infrastructure to be able to support that easily from what they're doing today and move in quickly. The third area is around data protection, making sure the data protection and malware recovery, that's the theme that we see is really unfortunately that's today. But being able to recover quickly, both having native services and native offerings just built in resiliency into the core platforms, like S3 with object application, et cetera. And also partnering with Dell with cyber recovery and some of the solutions with Dell. >> Excellent, and Brian, last question for you. A bumper sticker that succinctly and powerfully describes why Dell and AWS are such awesome partners for customer issues. >> Best of both worlds, right? >> Lisa: Mic drop. >> Mic drop, done. >> That's awesome. You said that a lot more succinctly. (people laughing) >> Enterprise in Cloud, Cloud comin' to enterprise. >> Yeah, leader meets leader, right? >> Yeah, right. >> Love it, leader meets leader. Guys, it's been a pleasure having you on theCUBE. We appreciate hearing the latest from AWS and Dell from a storage perspective and from a Cloud perspective and how you're helping customers manage the explosion of data that's not going to slow down. We really appreciate you coming by the set. >> Thank you. >> Great, thanks so much, appreciate it. >> My pleasure. For our guests and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (techno music)

>>Mhm. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the cubes. Continuous coverage of AWS Re Invent 2021. Live from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with John Ferrier We have to live sets to remote studios over 100 guests on the Cube at this year's show and we're really excited to get to the next decade in cloud innovation and welcome from the keynote stage. Mark Ruin the Chief Network Officer Andy VPs Dish Network Mark, Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>Enjoyed your keynote this morning. So big news coming from AWS and dish you guys announced in the spring telecom industry First dish in AWS have formed a strategic collaboration to reinvent, reinvent five G connectivity and innovation. Let's let's really kind of dig into the AWS dish partnership. >>Yeah, you know, we're putting our network in the cloud, which allows us to have a different speed of innovation and a much more corroborative way of bringing new technology. And then we have access to all the developer ecosystem of AWS. So that's but as you say, it's a world first to put the telco in the cloud. >>And so the first time the five g network is going to be in the cloud, and it was also announced I'm curious, uh, that Las Vegas is going to be the first city live here. We are sitting in Las Vegas. What's the any status you can give us on >>that? So we're building across the US and Las Vegas is a place that we've built and we better testing. So that's where we have all run and we're testing all sorts of traffic and capability with our people and partners live here at the same time that we have the reinvent and, uh, Bianco around. We're also starting to test new capabilities like orchestration, slicing things that we've never seen any industry. So that's pretty exciting, I >>have to ask you. In the telecom industry, there has been an inflexion point around cloud and cloud Impact Ran is opening up new opportunities. What is the telecom industry getting and missing at the same time? Because it seems to be two schools of thought cloud pro cloud ran and then hold onto the old way. >>I think everybody would like to go to Iran and the cloud, but it's not as easy if you have a big installed base. So for us. You know, we all knew it. It's easy so we can adopt the best technology and the newest. But of course, if you have a big instal base, there is going to be a transformation, if you wish. So you know, people are starting trying to set the expectation of how much time it will take. But for us, you know we are. We're moving ahead because we're building a completely new network. >>It's a lot easier than well, it's a relative term. It's >>really much more fun. And we can We don't have to make compromises, right? So but it's still a lot of work, you know, we're discovering we're learning a lot of things. We're partners. >>What if you have a clean sheet of paper or Greenfield? What's the playbook to roll this out across the campus for a large geographic area? >>Yeah, so pretty much You have the same capability in terms of coverage and capabilities than anybody else, but we can do it in an automated manner. We can do it with much thinner and efficient hardware, pretty much hardware with a few accelerators, so a bit of jargon. But, you know, we just have access to a larger ecosystem and much more silicon and all the good things that are coming with the cloud >>talk to us about some of the unique challenges of five G that make running it in the cloud so much more helpful. And then also, why did you decide to partner with AWS? Clearly you have choice, but I'd love to know the backstory on that. >>Yeah, I've been in the telco industry forever, and I've always seen that our speed of innovation was to slow. The telco is very good at reliability. You know, your phone always works. Um, it's very reliable. You can have massive traffic, but the speed of innovation is not fast enough. And the the applications that are coming on the clouds are much faster. So what we wanted to marry is the reliability of the telco and and all the knowledge that exists with the speed of the cloud. And that's what we're doing with bringing their ecosystem into our ecosystem to get the best of two worlds. >>Lots of transformation in the vertical industries. We heard from Adam today on stage vertical with ai machine learning. How does that apply in the telco world because it's an edge you got. See, sports stadiums, for instance. You're seeing all kinds of home impact. How is vertical specialisation? >>Yeah. So what is unique about the cloud is that you can observe a lot of things, you know, in the cloud you have access to data, so you see what's happening, and then you use a lot of algorithms. We call it Machine Learning Analytics to make decisions. Now, for us, it means if you're a stadium, you're going to have a much better visibility of what's happening. Where is the traffic? You know, people moving in and moving out? Are they going to buy some food awards? So you see the traffic and you can adapt the way you steal the traffic the way you distribute video, the way you distribute entertainment to how people are moving because you can observe what is happening in the network, which you can't do in a classic or legacy five g network. So once you observe, you can have plenty of ideas, right? And you can start innovation again, mix a lot of things and offer new services. >>In this last 22 months, when we saw this rapid pivot to work from home. And now it's work from anywhere, right? We talk about hybrid cloud hybrid events here, but this hybrid work environment talk to me about the impact that that decision A W s are going to have on all of those companies and people who are going to be remote and working from the edge for maybe permanently. >>Yes, you say, You know what is important is that people want to have access to the to the cloud to the services, the enterprise from wherever they are. So as a software architect, I need to make sure that we can follow them and offer that service from wherever they are in a similar manner today. If you're making a phone call, you don't have to think if you're connecting to the Web, you know, through WiFi through this and that, you have to think we want to make it as simple as making a phone call. In the past, where you always connected, you always secured. You always have access to your data. So that's really the ambition we have. And, of course, with the new remote abbots, the video conferencing that's the perfect time to come with a new offer. >>And the Strand also is moving towards policy based. You mentioned understanding video and patterns. Having that differentiated services capability in real time is a big deal. >>Yeah, that's a big deal. Actually, what enterprise want? They want to manage their policy, so they want to decide what traffic gets, a premium access and what traffic can be put in the background. You want to update your computers? Maybe that's not a premium price for that. You can do it at any time, but you want to have real time, customer service and support. You want premium? And who am I to decide for an enterprise? Enterprises want to decide. So what we offer them is the tools to create their policy, and their policy will be a competitive advantage for them when they can different change. >>And this brings up another point. I want to ask you. You brought this up earlier about this. The ideas, the creativity that enables with cloud you mentioned ideas will come out. These are this is where the developers now can really encode. This is the whole theme of this Pathfinders keynote. You were up on stage. This is a real opportunity to add value. Doing all the heavy lifting in the top of the stack and enabling new use cases, new applications, new expectations. >>You know what I tell to my engineers? My dream as an engineer is to be, uh, developer friendly. I want people to come to us because it's fun to work in our environment and try things. And a lot of the ideas that developers will have won't work. But if they can spin it off very fast, they will move to that killer application of killer service very fast. So my job is to bring that to them so that it's very easy to consume and and trying to live And, you know, just like bringing >>candy to a baby here. >>Yeah, cause right And have fun and, uh, and discover it for yourself and decide for yourself. >>I gotta ask your questions in the Telecom for a while. We've been seeing on the Cube earlier in our intro keynote analysis that we're now living in an era with SAS applications. No more shelf where now, with purpose built applications that you're seeing now and horizontally scalable, vertically integrated machine learning. You can't hide the ball anymore around what's working. You can't put a project out there and say no, you can't justify. You can't put you can put lipstick on that. You can't know you're seeing on >>that bad cake. Yeah, it's all the point of beta testing and market adoption. You try, you put it there. It works. You say the brake doesn't work. You try again, right? That's the way it works. And and in Telco, you're right. We were cooking for a year or two years, Three years and saying, Oh, you know what? That's what you need. It doesn't work like this faster now. Yeah, Yeah. And people want to be able to influence and they want to say, I like it. I don't like it. And the market is deciding. >>Speaking of influence, one of the things we know we talk a lot about with A W S and their guests is their customer. First customer obsession focused. You know, the whole reason we're here is that is to serve the customer, talk to me about how customers and joint customers are influencing some of the design choices that you guys are making as you're bringing five due to the cloud. >>So what is important for us? We have to dreams, right? The first one is for consumers. We want consumers to have access to the network so that they feel that they are VIP and often I know you and I, sometimes when we're connected to the network with tropical, we don't get the feeling where a V i p So that's something that's a journey for us to make people feel like they get the service and the network is following them and caring about them for the enterprises. You want to let them decide what they want. You were talking about policy building. They want to come with their own rating engine. They want to come with their own geographical maps. Like here. I have traffic here. I don't need coverage. So we want to open up so that the enterprise decide how they invest, how they spend the money on the network >>giving control back to the end user. Whether that's a consumer or enterprise, >>absolutely giving control to the end user and the enterprises. And we're there to support and accelerate the service for them. >>Mark, I want to ask you about leadership. You mentioned all these new things. Are there your dreams? And it's happening Giving engineers the canvas to paint their own future. It's gonna be fun is fun as you're affecting that change. What can people do as leaders to create that momentum to bring the whole organisation along is their tricks of the trade. Is their best practises >>Absolutely their best practises? Um, we were very much following develops where, you know, as a leader, you don't know, you're just learning and you're exposing and you're sharing. Uh, we're also creating an open world where we're asking all our partners to be open. Sometimes, you know, they feel like a bit challenge. Like, do I want to show what I'm doing? And I would say, Yeah, sure, because you're benefiting between each other. Um, And then you want to give tools to your engineers and your marketers to be fast speed, speed, speed, speed so that they can just play and learn. And at the end of the day, you said it. It's all about fun. You know, if it's fun, it's easy to do >>that. We're having fun here. >>That is true. We always have fun here. Last question for you is talk about some of the things that AWS announced this morning. Lots of stuff going on in Adam's keynote. What excites you about this continued partnership between AWS and Dish? >>Yeah, we were. We were surprised and so happy about AWS answer to when we came in with the first one to come big time in the telco and the Cloud was not ready. To be honest, it was Enterprise and Data Club and AWS. When is going all the way, we've asked to transform their cloud to make it a telco frantic, loud. So we have a lot of discussions about networking, routing, service level agreements and a lot of things that are very technical. And there are a true partner innovating with us. We have a road map with ideas and that's pretty unique. So, great partner, >>I was going to say it sounds like a really true >>trust and partnership. We're sharing ideas and challenging each other all the time, so that's really great. >>Awesome and users benefit consumers Benefit enterprises benefit Mark Thank you for joining Joining me on the programme today. Georgia Keynote enjoyed hearing more about dish and AWS. And what are you doing to power? The future. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you >>for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube? The global leader in tech coverage, So mhm. Yeah.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, with digital coverage of Postgres Vision 2021, brought to you by EDB. >> Well, good day, everybody. John Walls here on theCUBE, and continuing our CUBE conversation as part of Postgres Vision 2021, sponsored by EDB, with EDB Chief Technology Officer, Mr. Mark Linster. Mark, good morning to you. How are you doing today? >> I'm doing very fine, very good, sir. >> Excellent. Excellent. Glad you could join us. And we appreciate the time, chance, to look at what's going on in this world of data, which, as you know, continues to evolve quite rapidly. So let's just take that 30,000-foot perspective here to begin with here, and let's talk about data, and management, and what Postgres is doing in terms of accelerating all these innovative techniques, and solutions, and services that we're seeing these days. >> Yeah, so I think it's really... It's a fantastic confluence of factors that we've seen in Postgres, or are seeing in Postgres today, where Postgres has really, really matured over the last couple of years, where things like high availability, parallel processing, use of very high core counts, et cetera, have come together with the drive towards digital transformation, the enormous amounts of data that businesses are dealing with today, so, and then the third factor's really the embracing of open source, right? I mean, Linux has shown the way, and has shown that this is really, really possible. And now we're seeing Postgres as, I think, the next big open source innovation, after Linux, achieving the same type of transformation. So it's really, it's a maturing, it's an acceptance, and the big drive towards dealing with a lot more data as part of digital transformation. >> You know, part of that acceptance that you talk about is about kind of accepting the fact that you have a legacy system that maybe, if you're not going to completely overhaul, you still have to integrate, right? You've got to compliment and start this kind of migration. So in your perspective, or from your perspective, what kind of progress is Postgres allowing in the mindset of CTOs among your client base, or whatever, that their legacy systems can function in this new environment, that all is not lost, and while there is some, perhaps, catching up to do, or some patching you have to do here and there, that it's not as arduous, or not as complex, as might appear to be on the face. >> Well, I think there's, the maturing of Postgres that has really really opened this up, right? Where we're seeing that Postgres can handle these workloads, right? And at the same time, there's a growing number of success cases where companies across all industries, financial services, insurance, manufacturing, retail are using Postgres. So, so you're no longer, you're no longer the first leader who's taken a higher risk, right? Like, five or 10 years ago, Postgres knowledge was not readily available. So if you want Postgres, it was really hard to find somebody who could support you, right? Or find an employee that you could hire who would be the Postgres expert. That's no longer the case. There's plenty of books about Postgres. There's lots of conferences about Postgres. It's a big meetup topic. So, getting know how and getting acceptance amongst your team to use Postgres has become a lot easier, right? At the same time, over 90% of all enterprises today use open source in one way or the other. Which basically means they have open source policies. They have ways to bring open source into the development stream. So that makes it possible, right? Whereas before it was really hard, you had to have an individual who would be evangelized to go, get open source, et cetera, now open source is something that almost everybody is using. You know, from government to financing services, open sources use all over the place, right? So, so now you have something that really matured, right? There's a lot of references out there and then you have the policies that make it possible, right? You have the success stories and now all the pieces have come together to deal with this onslaught of data, right? And then maybe the last thing that that really plays a big role is the cloud. Postgres runs everywhere, right? I mean, it runs from an Arduino to Amazon. Everywhere. And so, which basically means if you want to drive agile business transformation, you call Postgres because you don't have to decide today where it's going to run. You're not locking into a vendor. You're not locking into a limited support system. You can run this thing anywhere. It'll run on your laptop. It'll run on every cloud in the world. You can have it managed, you can have it hosted. You can add have every flavor you want and there's lots of good Postgres support companies out there. So all of these factors together is really what makes us so interesting, right? >> Kubernetes and this marriage, this complimentary, you know relationship right now with Kubernetes, what has that done? You think in terms of providing additional services or at least providing perhaps a new approach or new philosophies, new concepts in terms of database management? >> Well, it's maybe the most the most surprising thing or surprising from the outside. Probably not from the inside, but you think that that Postgres this now 25 year old, database twenty-five year old open source project would be kind of like completely, you know, incompatible with Kubernetes, with containers. But what really happens is Postgres in containers today is the number one database, after Engine X. It is the number two software that is being deployed in containers. So it's really become the workhorse of the whole microservices transformation, right? A 25 year old software, well, it has a very small footprint. It has a lot of interesting features like GIS, document processing, now graph capabilities, common table expressions all those things that are really like cool for developers. And that's probably what leads it to be the number one database in containers. So it's absolutely compatible with Kubernetes. And the whole transformation towards microservices is is like, you know, there's nothing better out there. It runs everywhere and has the most innovative technologies in it. And that's what we're seeing. Also, you go to the annual stack overflow survey of developers, right? It's been consistently number one or number two most loved and most used database, right? So, so what's amazing is that it's this relatively old technology that is, you know, beating everybody else in this digital transformation and then the adoption by developers. >> Just like old dog new tricks, right? It's still winning, right? >> Yeah, yeah, and, and, you know, the elephant is the symbol and this elephant does dance. >> Still dancing that's right. You know, and this is kind of a loaded question but there are a lot of databases out there, a lot of options, obviously from your perspective, you know, Postgres is winning, right? And, and, and from the size of the marketplace it is certainly leading RA leader. In your opinion, you know, what, what is this confluence of factors that have influenced this, this market position if you will, of Postgres or market acceptance of Postgres? >> It's, I mean, it's the, it's a maturing of the core. As I said before, that the transaction rates et cetera, Postgres can handle, are growing every year and are growing dramatic, right? So that's one thing. And then you have it, that Postgres is really, I think, the most reliable and relational database out there as what is my opinion, I'm biased, I guess. And, and it's, it's super quality code but then you add to that the innovation drive. I mean, it was the first one out there with good JSONB support, right? And now it's brought in JSON Path as as part of the new SQL standard. So now you can address JSON data inside your database and the same way you do it inside your browser. And that's pretty cool for developers. Then you combine that with PostGIS, right, which is, I think the most advanced GIS system out there in database. Now, now you got relations, asset compliant, GIS and document. You may say what's so cool about that. Well, what's cool about it is I can do absolutely reliable asset compliant transactions. I can have a fantastic personalization engine through JSONB, and then all my applications need to know where is the transaction? Where is the next store? How far away I'm a form of the parking spot? Right? So now I got a really really nice recipe to put the applications of the future together. You add onto that movements toward supporting graph and supporting other capabilities inside the database. So now you got, you got capability, you've got reliability and you got fantastic innovation. I mean, there's nothing better out there. >> Let's hit the security angle here, 'cause you talked about the asset test, and certainly, you know, those, that criteria is being met. No question about that, whether it's isolation, durability, consistency, whatever, but, but security, I don't have to tell you what a growing concern this is. It's already paramount, but we're seeing every day write stories about, about intrusions and and invasions, if you will. So in terms of providing that layer of security that everybody's looking for right now, you know, this this ultra impenetrable force, if you will, what in your mind, what's Postgres allowing for, in that respect in terms of security, peace of mind, and maybe a little additional comfort that everybody in your space is looking for these? >> So, so look at, look at security with a database like, like multiple layers, right? There's not just, you don't do security only one place. It's like when you go into a bank branch, right? I mean, they do lock the door, they have a camera, there is a gate in front of the safe, there's a safe door. And inside the safe, there is still, again safety deposit boxes with individual locks. The same applies to Postgres, right? Where let's say we start at the heart of it where we can secure and protect tables and data. We're using access control lists and groups and usernames, et cetera. Right? So that's, that's at the heart of it. But then outside of that, we can encrypt the data when on disk or when it's in transit on disk. Most people use the Linux disc encryption systems but there's also good partners out there, like like more metric or others that we work with, that that provide security on disk. And then you go out from there and then you have the securing of the database itself again through the log-ins and the groups. You go out from there and now you have the securing of the hosts that the database is sitting on. Then you'll look at securing the data on the networks through SSL and certificates, et cetera. So that basically there's a multi-layer security model layer that positions Postgres extremely well. And then maybe the last thing is to say it certainly integrates very well with ELDAP, active directory, Kerberos, all the usual suspects that you would use to secure technology inside the enterprise or in an open network, like where people work from home, et cetera. >> You talked about the history about this 25 year old technology, you know, founded back at Cal Berkeley, you know, probably almost some 30 years ago and certainly has evolved. And, and as you have pointed out now as a very mature technology, what do you see though in terms of growth from here? Like, where does it go from here in the next 18 months, 24 months, what what do you think is that next barrier, that challenge that that you think the technology and this open source community wants to take on? >> Well, I think there's there's the continuous effort of making it faster, right? That always happens, right? Every database wants to be faster do more transactions per second, et cetera. And there's a lot of work that has been done there. I mean, just in the last couple of years, Postgres performance has increased by over 50%. Right? So, so transactions per second and that kind of scalability that is going to continue to be, to be a focus, right? And then the other one is leading the implementation of the SQL standards, right? So there'd be the most advanced database, the most innovative database, because, remember for many years now, Postgres has come up with a new release on an annual basis. Other database vendors are now catching up to that, but Postgres has done that for years. So innovation has always been at the heart of it. So we started with JSONB, Key value pair came even before that, PostGis has been around for a long time, graph extensions are going to be the next thing, ingestion of time series data is going to, is going to happen. So there's going to be an ongoing stream of innovations happening. But one thing that I can say is because Postgres is a pure open source project. There's not a hard roadmap, like where it's going to go but where it's going to go is always driven by what people want to have, right? There is no product management department. There's no, there's no great visionary that says, "Oh, this is where we're going to go." No, no. What's going to happen is what people want to have, right? If companies or contributors want to have a certain feature because they need it, well, that's how it's going to happen. And that's really been at the heart of this since Mike Stonebraker, who's an advisor to EDB today, invented it. And then, you know, the open source project got created. This has always been the movement to only focus on things that people actually want to have because if nobody wants to have it, we're just not going to build it because nobody wants it. Right? So when you asked me for the roadmap I believe it's going to be, you know, faster, obviously, always faster, right? Everybody wants faster. And then there's going to be innovation features like making the document stored even better, graph ingestion of large time series, et cetera. That's really what I believe is going to drive it forward. >> Wow. Yeah, the market has spoken and as you point out the market will continue to speak and, and drive that bus. So Mark, thank you for the time today. We certainly appreciate that. And wish EDB continued success at Postgres vision 2021. And thanks for the time. >> Thanks John, it was a pleasure. >> You bet. Mark Linster, joining us, the CTO at EDB. I'm John Walls, you've been watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hi everyone, this is Dave Vellante and welcome to this CUBE conversation where we're going to dig in to this, the area of cloud databases. And Gartner just published a series of research in this space. And it's really a growing market, rapidly growing, a lot of new players, obviously the big three cloud players. And with me are three experts in the field, two long time industry analysts. Marc Staimer is the founder, president, and key principal at Dragon Slayer Consulting. And he's joined by David Floyer, the CTO of Wikibon. Gentlemen great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Good to be here. >> Great to see you too Dave. >> Marc, coming from the great Northwest, I think first time on theCUBE, and so it's really great to have you. So let me set this up, as I said, you know, Gartner published these, you know, three giant tomes. These are, you know, publicly available documents on the web. I know you guys have been through them, you know, several hours of reading. And so, night... (Dave chuckles) Good night time reading. The three documents where they identify critical capabilities for cloud database management systems. And the first one we're going to talk about is, operational use cases. So we're talking about, you know, transaction oriented workloads, ERP financials. The second one was analytical use cases, sort of an emerging space to really try to, you know, the data warehouse space and the like. And, of course, the third is the famous Gartner Magic Quadrant, which we're going to talk about. So, Marc, let me start with you, you've dug into this research just at a high level, you know, what did you take away from it? >> Generally, if you look at all the players in the space they all have some basic good capabilities. What I mean by that is ultimately when you have, a transactional or an analytical database in the cloud, the goal is not to have to manage the database. Now they have different levels of where that goes to as how much you have to manage or what you have to manage. But ultimately, they all manage the basic administrative, or the pedantic tasks that DBAs have to do, the patching, the tuning, the upgrading, all of that is done by the service provider. So that's the number one thing they all aim at, from that point on every database has different capabilities and some will automate a whole bunch more than others, and will have different primary focuses. So it comes down to what you're looking for or what you need. And ultimately what I've learned from end users is what they think they need upfront, is not what they end up needing as they implement. >> David, anything you'd add to that, based on your reading of the Gartner work. >> Yes. It's a thorough piece of work. It's taking on a huge number of different types of uses and size of companies. And I think those are two parameters which really change how companies would look at it. If you're a Fortune 500 or Fortune 2000 type company, you're going to need a broader range of features, and you will need to deal with size and complexity in a much greater sense, and a lot of probably higher levels of availability, and reliability, and recoverability. Again, on the workload side, there are different types of workload and there're... There is as well as having the two transactional and analytic workloads, I think there's an emerging type of workload which is going to be very important for future applications where you want to combine transactional with analytic in real time, in order to automate business processes at a higher level, to make the business processes synchronous as opposed to asynchronous. And that degree of granularity, I think is missed, in a broader view of these companies and what they offer. It's in my view trying in some ways to not compare like with like from a customer point of view. So the very nuance, what you talked about, let's get into it, maybe that'll become clear to the audience. So like I said, these are very detailed research notes. There were several, I'll say analysts cooks in the kitchen, including Henry Cook, whom I don't know, but four other contributing analysts, two of whom are CUBE alum, Don Feinberg, and Merv Adrian, both really, you know, awesome researchers. And Rick Greenwald, along with Adam Ronthal. And these are public documents, you can go on the web and search for these. So I wonder if we could just look at some of the data and bring up... Guys, bring up the slide one here. And so we'll first look at the operational side and they broke it into four use cases. The traditional transaction use cases, the augmented transaction processing, stream/event processing and operational intelligence. And so we're going to show you there's a lot of data here. So what Gartner did is they essentially evaluated critical capabilities, or think of features and functions, and gave them a weighting, or a weighting, and then a rating. It was a weighting and rating methodology. On a s... The rating was on a scale of one to five, and then they weighted the importance of the features based on their assessment, and talking to the many customers they talk to. So you can see here on the first chart, we're showing both the traditional transactions and the augmented transactions and, you know, the thing... The first thing that jumps out at you guys is that, you know, Oracle with Autonomous is off the charts, far ahead of anybody else on this. And actually guys, if you just bring up slide number two, we'll take a look at the stream/event processing and operational intelligence use cases. And you can see, again, you know, Oracle has a big lead. And I don't want to necessarily go through every vendor here, but guys, if you don't mind going back to the first slide 'cause I think this is really, you know, the core of transaction processing. So let's look at this, you've got Oracle, you've got SAP HANA. You know, right there interestingly Amazon Web Services with the Aurora, you know, IBM Db2, which, you know, it goes back to the good old days, you know, down the list. But so, let me again start with Marc. So why is that? I mean, I guess this is no surprise, Oracle still owns the Mission-Critical for the database space. They earned that years ago. One that, you know, over the likes of Db2 and, you know, Informix and Sybase, and, you know, they emerged as number one there. But what do you make of this data Marc? >> If you look at this data in a vacuum, you're looking at specific functionality, I think you need to look at all the slides in total. And the reason I bring that up is because I agree with what David said earlier, in that the use case that's becoming more prevalent is the integration of transaction and analytics. And more importantly, it's not just your traditional data warehouse, but it's AI analytics. It's big data analytics. It's users are finding that they need more than just simple reporting. They need more in-depth analytics so that they can get more actionable insights into their data where they can react in real time. And so if you look at it just as a transaction, that's great. If you're going to just as a data warehouse, that's great, or analytics, that's fine. If you have a very narrow use case, yes. But I think today what we're looking at is... It's not so narrow. It's sort of like, if you bought a streaming device and it only streams Netflix and then you need to get another streaming device 'cause you want to watch Amazon Prime. You're not going to do that, you want one, that does all of it, and that's kind of what's missing from this data. So I agree that the data is good, but I don't think it's looking at it in a total encompassing manner. >> Well, so before we get off the horses on the track 'cause I love to do that. (Dave chuckles) I just kind of let's talk about that. So Marc, you're putting forth the... You guys seem to agree on that premise that the database that can do more than just one thing is of appeal to customers. I suppose that makes, certainly makes sense from a cost standpoint. But, you know, guys feel free to flip back and forth between slides one and two. But you can see SAP HANA, and I'm not sure what cloud that's running on, it's probably running on a combination of clouds, but, you know, scoring very strongly. I thought, you know, Aurora, you know, given AWS says it's one of the fastest growing services in history and they've got it ahead of Db2 just on functionality, which is pretty impressive. I love Google Spanner, you know, love the... What they're trying to accomplish there. You know, you go down to Microsoft is, they're kind of the... They're always good enough a database and that's how they succeed and et cetera, et cetera. But David, it sounds like you agree with Marc. I would say, I would think though, Amazon kind of doesn't agree 'cause they're like a horses for courses. >> I agree. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So I wonder if you could comment on that. >> Well, I want to comment on two vectors. The first vector is that the size of customer and, you know, a mid-sized customer versus a global $2,000 or global 500 customer. For the smaller customer that's the heart of AWS, and they are taking their applications and putting pretty well everything into their cloud, the one cloud, and Aurora is a good choice. But when you start to get to a requirements, as you do in larger companies have very high levels of availability, the functionality is not there. You're not comparing apples and... Apples with apples, it's two very different things. So from a tier one functionality point of view, IBM Db2 and Oracle have far greater capability for recovery and all the features that they've built in over there. >> Because of their... You mean 'cause of the maturity, right? maturity and... >> Because of their... Because of their focus on transaction and recovery, et cetera. >> So SAP though HANA, I mean, that's, you know... (David talks indistinctly) And then... >> Yeah, yeah. >> And then I wanted your comments on that, either of you or both of you. I mean, SAP, I think has a stated goal of basically getting its customers off Oracle that's, you know, there's always this urinary limping >> Yes, yes. >> between the two companies by 2024. Larry has said that ain't going to happen. You know, Amazon, we know still runs on Oracle. It's very hard to migrate Mission-Critical, David, you and I know this well, Marc you as well. So, you know, people often say, well, everybody wants to get off Oracle, it's too expensive, blah, blah, blah. But we talked to a lot of Oracle customers there, they're very happy with the reliability, availability, recoverability feature set. I mean, the core of Oracle seems pretty stable. >> Yes. >> But I wonder if you guys could comment on that, maybe Marc you go first. >> Sure. I've recently done some in-depth comparisons of Oracle and Aurora, and all their other RDS services and Snowflake and Google and a variety of them. And ultimately what surprised me is you made a statement it costs too much. It actually comes in half of Aurora for in most cases. And it comes in less than half of Snowflake in most cases, which surprised me. But no matter how you configure it, ultimately based on a couple of things, each vendor is focused on different aspects of what they do. Let's say Snowflake, for example, they're on the analytical side, they don't do any transaction processing. But... >> Yeah, so if I can... Sorry to interrupt. Guys if you could bring up the next slide that would be great. So that would be slide three, because now we get into the analytical piece Marc that you're talking about that's what Snowflake specialty is. So please carry on. >> Yeah, and what they're focused on is sharing data among customers. So if, for example, you're an automobile manufacturer and you've got a huge supply chain, you can supply... You can share the data without copying the data with any of your suppliers that are on Snowflake. Now, can you do that with the other data warehouses? Yes, you can. But the focal point is for Snowflake, that's where they're aiming it. And whereas let's say the focal point for Oracle is going to be performance. So their performance affects cost 'cause the higher the performance, the less you're paying for the performing part of the payment scale. Because you're paying per second for the CPUs that you're using. Same thing on Snowflake, but the performance is higher, therefore you use less. I mean, there's a whole bunch of things to come into this but at the end of the day what I've found is Oracle tends to be a lot less expensive than the prevailing wisdom. So let's talk value for a second because you said something, that yeah the other databases can do that, what Snowflake is doing there. But my understanding of what Snowflake is doing is they built this global data mesh across multiple clouds. So not only are they compatible with Google or AWS or Azure, but essentially you sign up for Snowflake and then you can share data with anybody else in the Snowflake cloud, that I think is unique. And I know, >> Marc: Yes. >> Redshift, for instance just announced, you know, Redshift data sharing, and I believe it's just within, you know, clusters within a customer, as opposed to across an ecosystem. And I think that's where the network effect is pretty compelling for Snowflake. So independent of costs, you and I can debate about costs and, you know, the tra... The lack of transparency of, because AWS you don't know what the bill is going to be at the end of the month. And that's the same thing with Snowflake, but I find that... And by the way guys, you can flip through slides three and four, because we've got... Let me just take a quick break and you have data warehouse, logical data warehouse. And then the next slide four you got data science, deep learning and operational intelligent use cases. And you can see, you know, Teradata, you know, law... Teradata came up in the mid 1980s and dominated in that space. Oracle does very well there. You can see Snowflake pop-up, SAP with the Data Warehouse, Amazon with Redshift. You know, Google with BigQuery gets a lot of high marks from people. You know, Cloud Data is in there, you know, so you see some of those names. But so Marc and David, to me, that's a different strategy. They're not trying to be just a better data warehouse, easier data warehouse. They're trying to create, Snowflake that is, an incremental opportunity as opposed to necessarily going after, for example, Oracle. David, your thoughts. >> Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, ease of use is a primary benefit for Snowflake. It enables you to do stuff very easily. It enables you to take data without ETL, without any of the complexity. It enables you to share a number of resources across many different users and know... And be able to bring in what that particular user wants or part of the company wants. So in terms of where they're focusing, they've got a tremendous ease of use, tremendous focus on what the customer wants. And you pointed out yourself the restrictions there are of doing that both within Oracle and AWS. So yes, they have really focused very, very hard on that. Again, for the future, they are bringing in a lot of additional functions. They're bringing in Python into it, not Python, JSON into the database. They can extend the database itself, whether they go the whole hog and put in transaction as well, that's probably something they may be thinking about but not at the moment. >> Well, but they, you know, they obviously have to have TAM expansion designs because Marc, I mean, you know, if they just get a 100% of the data warehouse market, they're probably at a third of their stock market valuation. So they had better have, you know, a roadmap and plans to extend there. But I want to come back Marc to this notion of, you know, the right tool for the right job, or, you know, best of breed for a specific, the right specific, you know horse for course, versus this kind of notion of all in one, I mean, they're two different ends of the spectrum. You're seeing, you know, Oracle obviously very successful based on these ratings and based on, you know their track record. And Amazon, I think I lost count of the number of data stores (Dave chuckles) with Redshift and Aurora and Dynamo, and, you know, on and on and on. (Marc talks indistinctly) So they clearly want to have that, you know, primitive, you know, different APIs for each access, completely different philosophies it's like Democrats or Republicans. Marc your thoughts as to who ultimately wins in the marketplace. >> Well, it's hard to say who is ultimately going to win, but if I look at Amazon, Amazon is an all-cart type of system. If you need time series, you go with their time series database. If you need a data warehouse, you go with Redshift. If you need transaction, you go with one of the RDS databases. If you need JSON, you go with a different database. Everything is a different, unique database. Moving data between these databases is far from simple. If you need to do a analytics on one database from another, you're going to use other services that cost money. So yeah, each one will do what they say it's going to do but it's going to end up costing you a lot of money when you do any kind of integration. And you're going to add complexity and you're going to have errors. There's all sorts of issues there. So if you need more than one, probably not your best route to go, but if you need just one, it's fine. And if, and on Snowflake, you raise the issue that they're going to have to add transactions, they're going to have to rewrite their database. They have no indexes whatsoever in Snowflake. I mean, part of the simplicity that David talked about is because they had to cut corners, which makes sense. If you're focused on the data warehouse you cut out the indexes, great. You don't need them. But if you're going to do transactions, you kind of need them. So you're going to have to do some more work there. So... >> Well... So, you know, I don't know. I have a different take on that guys. I think that, I'm not sure if Snowflake will add transactions. I think maybe, you know, their hope is that the market that they're creating is big enough. I mean, I have a different view of this in that, I think the data architecture is going to change over the next 10 years. As opposed to having a monolithic system where everything goes through that big data platform, the data warehouse and the data lake. I actually see what Snowflake is trying to do and, you know, I'm sure others will join them, is to put data in the hands of product builders, data product builders or data service builders. I think they're betting that that market is incremental and maybe they don't try to take on... I think it would maybe be a mistake to try to take on Oracle. Oracle is just too strong. I wonder David, if you could comment. So it's interesting to see how strong Gartner rated Oracle in cloud database, 'cause you don't... I mean, okay, Oracle has got OCI, but you know, you think a cloud, you think Google, or Amazon, Microsoft and Google. But if I have a transaction database running on Oracle, very risky to move that, right? And so we've seen that, it's interesting. Amazon's a big customer of Oracle, Salesforce is a big customer of Oracle. You know, Larry is very outspoken about those companies. SAP customers are many, most are using Oracle. I don't, you know, it's not likely that they're going anywhere. My question to you, David, is first of all, why do they want to go to the cloud? And if they do go to the cloud, is it logical that the least risky approach is to stay with Oracle, if you're an Oracle customer, or Db2, if you're an IBM customer, and then move those other workloads that can move whether it's more data warehouse oriented or incremental transaction work that could be done in a Aurora? >> I think the first point, why should Oracle go to the cloud? Why has it gone to the cloud? And if there is a... >> Moreso... Moreso why would customers of Oracle... >> Why would customers want to... >> That's really the question. >> Well, Oracle have got Oracle Cloud@Customer and that is a very powerful way of doing it. Where exactly the same Oracle system is running on premise or in the cloud. You can have it where you want, you can have them joined together. That's unique. That's unique in the marketplace. So that gives them a very special place in large customers that have data in many different places. The second point is that moving data is very expensive. Marc was making that point earlier on. Moving data from one place to another place between two different databases is a very expensive architecture. Having the data in one place where you don't have to move it where you can go directly to it, gives you enormous capabilities for a single database, single database type. And I'm sure that from a transact... From an analytic point of view, that's where Snowflake is going, to a large single database. But where Oracle is going to is where, you combine both the transactional and the other one. And as you say, the cost of migration of databases is incredibly high, especially transaction databases, especially large complex transaction databases. >> So... >> And it takes a long time. So at least a two year... And it took five years for Amazon to actually succeed in getting a lot of their stuff over. And five years they could have been doing an awful lot more with the people that they used to bring it over. So it was a marketing decision as opposed to a rational business decision. >> It's the holy grail of the vendors, they all want your data in their database. That's why Amazon puts so much effort into it. Oracle is, you know, in obviously a very strong position. It's got growth and it's new stuff, it's old stuff. It's, you know... The problem with Oracle it has like many of the legacy vendors, it's the size of the install base is so large and it's shrinking. And the new stuff is.... The legacy stuff is shrinking. The new stuff is growing very, very fast but it's not large enough yet to offset that, you see that in all the learnings. So very positive news on, you know, the cloud database, and they just got to work through that transition. Let's bring up slide number five, because Marc, this is to me the most interesting. So we've just shown all these detailed analysis from Gartner. And then you look at the Magic Quadrant for cloud databases. And, you know, despite Amazon being behind, you know, Oracle, or Teradata, or whomever in every one of these ratings, they're up to the right. Now, of course, Gartner will caveat this and say, it doesn't necessarily mean you're the best, but of course, everybody wants to be in the upper, right. We all know that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you should go by that database, I agree with what Gartner is saying. But look at Amazon, Microsoft and Google are like one, two and three. And then of course, you've got Oracle up there and then, you know, the others. So that I found that very curious, it is like there was a dissonance between the hardcore ratings and then the positions in the Magic Quadrant. Why do you think that is Marc? >> It, you know, it didn't surprise me in the least because of the way that Gartner does its Magic Quadrants. The higher up you go in the vertical is very much tied to the amount of revenue you get in that specific category which they're doing the Magic Quadrant. It doesn't have to do with any of the revenue from anywhere else. Just that specific quadrant is with that specific type of market. So when I look at it, Oracle's revenue still a big chunk of the revenue comes from on-prem, not in the cloud. So you're looking just at the cloud revenue. Now on the right side, moving to the right of the quadrant that's based on functionality, capabilities, the resilience, other things other than revenue. So visionary says, hey how far are you on the visionary side? Now, how they weight that again comes down to Gartner's experts and how they want to weight it and what makes more sense to them. But from my point of view, the right side is as important as the vertical side, 'cause the vertical side doesn't measure the growth rate either. And if we look at these, some of these are growing much faster than the others. For example, Snowflake is growing incredibly fast, and that doesn't reflect in these numbers from my perspective. >> Dave: I agree. >> Oracle is growing incredibly fast in the cloud. As David pointed out earlier, it's not just in their cloud where they're growing, but it's Cloud@Customer, which is basically an extension of their cloud. I don't know if that's included these numbers or not in the revenue side. So there's... There're a number of factors... >> Should it be in your opinion, Marc, would you include that in your definition of cloud? >> Yeah. >> The things that are hybrid and on-prem would that cloud... >> Yes. >> Well especially... Well, again, it depends on the hybrid. For example, if you have your own license, in your own hardware, but it connects to the cloud, no, I wouldn't include that. If you have a subscription license and subscription hardware that you don't own, but it's owned by the cloud provider, but it connects with the cloud as well, that I would. >> Interesting. Well, you know, to your point about growth, you're right. I mean, it's probably looking at, you know, revenues looking, you know, backwards from guys like Snowflake, it will be double, you know, the next one of these. It's also interesting to me on the horizontal axis to see Cloud Data and Databricks further to the right, than Snowflake, because that's kind of the data lake cloud. >> It is. >> And then of course, you've got, you know, the other... I mean, database used to be boring, so... (David laughs) It's such a hot market space here. (Marc talks indistinctly) David, your final thoughts on all this stuff. What does the customer take away here? What should I... What should my cloud database management strategy be? >> Well, I was positive about Oracle, let's take some of the negatives of Oracle. First of all, they don't make it very easy to rum on other platforms. So they have put in terms and conditions which make it very difficult to run on AWS, for example, you get double counts on the licenses, et cetera. So they haven't played well... >> Those are negotiable by the way. Those... You bring it up on the customer. You can negotiate that one. >> Can be, yes, They can be. Yes. If you're big enough they are negotiable. But Aurora certainly hasn't made it easy to work with other plat... Other clouds. What they did very... >> How about Microsoft? >> Well, no, that is exactly what I was going to say. Oracle with adjacent workloads have been working very well with Microsoft and you can then use Microsoft Azure and use a database adjacent in the same data center, working with integrated very nicely indeed. And I think Oracle has got to do that with AWS, it's got to do that with Google as well. It's got to provide a service for people to run where they want to run things not just on the Oracle cloud. If they did that, that would in my term, and my my opinion be a very strong move and would make make the capabilities available in many more places. >> Right. Awesome. Hey Marc, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. Thank you, David, as well, and thanks to Gartner for doing all this great research and making it public on the web. You can... If you just search critical capabilities for cloud database management systems for operational use cases, that's a mouthful, and then do the same for analytical use cases, and the Magic Quadrant. There's the third doc for cloud database management systems. You'll get about two hours of reading and I learned a lot and I learned a lot here too. I appreciate the context guys. Thanks so much. >> My pleasure. All right, thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of SUSECON Digital brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. I'm Stu Miniman and happy to welcome to the program one of SUSE's partners, we have Marc O'Regan, he is the CTO of EMEA for Dell Technologies. Marc, it is great to see you, we all wish, I know when I talked to Melissa Di Donato and the team, everybody was really looking forward to coming to Ireland, but at least we're talking to you in Ireland so thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, thanks very much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. You know, really looking forward to getting you guys here, unfortunately it wasn't a beaver, once we're all safe and well, great to talk. >> Yeah, absolutely, that's the important thing. Everybody is safe, we've had theCUBE a couple of times in Dublin. I'd actually, you know, circled this one on my calendar 'cause I wanted to get back the Emerald Isle but, Marc, let's talk first, you know, the Dell and SUSE relationship you know, disclaimer, you know, I've got a little bit of background on this. You know, I was the product manager for Linux at a company known as EMC back before Dell bought them, many moons ago, so I know that, you know, Dell and the Dell EMC relationship with SUSE go back a couple of decades, but, you know, bring us into, you know, what your teams are working together and we'll go from there. >> Yeah, sure, Stu, so, quite correct, nearly a two decade long relationship with SUSE and one that we hold very dear to our heart. I think what both organizations have in common is their thirst and will to innovate and we've been doing that with SUSE for 16, 17 years, right back to, you know, SUSE Enterprise Linux sitting on, you know, PowerEdge architecture way, way back in the day into you know, some of the developments and collaborations that we, that we worked through with the SUSE teams. I remember back 2013, 2014 doing a pretty cool program with our then Fluid Cache technology. So, when you look at, you know, OLTP kind of environments, what you want to kind of get away from is the, you know, the read-write, commits and latency that are inherent in those types of environments. So, as you start to build and get more users hitting the, hitting the ecosystem, you need to be able to respond and SUSE has been absolutely, you know, instrumental to helping us build an architecture then with our Fluid Cache technology back in the day, and the SUSE technology sitting around and under that and then of course, in more recent times, really extending that innovation aspiration, I guess, has been absolutely a pleasure to, to watch and to be involved with, see it mature so some of the cool platforms that we're developing with SUSE together it's a, it's pretty neat so I'm, you know, one of those being-- >> So, Marc, yeah, well, you know, bring us up to speed, you know, right in the early days, it was, you know, Linux on the SUSE side, it was, you know, servers and storage from the Dell side, you know, today it's, you know, microservice architectures, cloud native solutions. So, you know, bring us up to speed as to some of the important technologies and obviously, you know, both companies have matured and grown and have a much broader portfolio other than they would have years ago. >> Yeah, for sure, absolutely. So, I mean, what's exciting is when you look at some of the architectures that we are building together, we're building reference architectures. So we're taking this work that we're doing together and we're building edge architectures that are suitable for small, medium, and you know, and large environments. And the common thread that pulls those three architectures together is that they are all enterprise grade architectures. And the architectures are used as frameworks. We don't always expect our customers to use them, you know, by the letter of the law, but they are a framework and, by which they can look to roll out scalable storage solutions. For example, like the Ceph, the SUSE Enterprise Storage solution that we collaborate with and have built such a reference architecture for. So this is, you know, it's built on Ceph architecture under the hood, but, you know, both ourselves and SUSE have brought a level of innovation, you know, into an arena, where you need cost, and you need low latency, and you need those types of things that we spoke about, I guess a moment ago, and into, you know, this new cloud native ecosystem that you just spoke to a few moments ago. So on the cloud native side, we're also heavily collaborating, and near co-engineering with SUSE on their CaaS technologies. So here it's really interesting to look at organizations like SAP and what we're doing with data hub and SAP, it's all part of the intelligent enterprise for SAP. This is where SUSE and Dell Tech together really get, you know, into looking at how we can extract information out of data, different data repositories. You know, you may have Oracle you may have, you know, you may have HDFS, you may have Excel and you're trying to extract data and information from that data, from those different siloed environments and the CaaS technology brings its, you know, its micro, capability to the forum in that regard, our hardware architecture is the perfect fit to, to bring that scalar platform, cloud native platform into the ecosystem. >> So, you know, Marc, you've got the CTO hat on for the European theater there. When we, we've been talking to SUSE, when they talk about their innovation, obviously, the community and open-source is a big piece of what they're doing. You were just walking through some of the cloud native pieces, give us what you're seeing when it comes to, you know, how is Dell helping drive innovation, you know, and how does that connects with what you're doing with partners like SUSE. >> Yeah, well, you know, innovation is massively, massively important. So there's a number of different factors that, you know, make up a very good innovation framework or a good innovation program. And at Dell Tech we happen to have what we believe to be an extraordinarily good innovation framework. And we have a lot of R&D budget assigned to helping innovate and we get the chance to go out and work with SUSE and other partners as well. What SUSE and Dell Tech do really, really well together is bring other partners and other technologies into the mix. And, you know, this allows us to innovate, co-innovate together as part of that framework that I just mentioned. So on the Dell Tech framework, we'll obviously, you know, take technologies, you know, we'll take them, perhaps into the office of the CTO, look at new, you know, emerging tech and look at, you know, more traditional tech, for example, and we will blend those together. And, you know, as part of the process and the innovation process, we generally take a view on some of the partners that we actually want to get involved in that process. And SUSE is very much one of those partners, as a matter of fact, right now, we're doing a couple of things with SUSE, one in the labs in Walldorf in Germany, where we're looking at high availability solution that we're trying to develop and optimize there right now at this point in time. And another good example that I can think of at the moment is looking at how customers are migrating off, you know, older, more traditional platforms, they need to look at the cloud native world, they need look at how they can, platform for success in this cloud native world. And we're looking at how we can get smarter, I guess about migrating them from that, you know, extraordinarily stealthy world that they had been in the past but that needs to get from that stealthy world into an even stealthier scalable world that is, that is cloud native world. >> Yeah, Marc, you talk about customers going through these transformations, I wonder if you can help connect the dots for us as to how these types of solutions fit into customers overall cloud strategies. So, you know, obviously, you know, Dell has broad portfolio, a lot of different pieces that are on the cloud, you know, I know there's a long partnership between Dell and SUSE and like SAP solutions, we've been looking at how those modernize so, you know, where does cloud fit in and we'd love any of kind of the European insights that you can give on that overall cloud discussion. >> Yeah, sure, so, again, ourselves and SUSE go back on, in history, you know, on the cloud platforming side, I mean, we've collaborated on developing a cloud platform in the past as well. So we had an OpenStack platform that we both collaborated on and you know, it was very successful for both of us. Where I'm seeing a lot of the requirement in this multicloud world that we're kind of living in right now, is the ability to be able to build a performant scalable platform that is going to be able to respond in the cloud native ecosystem. And that is going to be able to traverse workloads from on-prem to off-prem and from different cloud platforms with different underlying dependencies there. And that's really the whole aspiration, I guess, of this open cloud ecosystem. How do we get workloads to traverse across, across those types of domain. And the other is bringing the kind of, you know, performance that's expected out of these new workloads that are starting to emerge in the cloud native spaces. And as we start to look to data and extract information from data, we are also looking to do so in an extraordinary, accurate and in an extraordinary performant way and having the right kind of architecture underneath that is absolutely, absolutely essential. So I mentioned, you know, SAP's data hub a little earlier on, that's a really, really good example. As is, a matter of fact, SAP's Leonardo framework so, you know, my background is HPC, right? So, I will always look to how we can possibly architect to get the compute engineering as close to the data sources as possible as we can. And that means having to, in some way get out of these monolithic stacks that we've been used to over the last, you know, for a number of decades into a more horizontally scaled out kind of architecture. That means landing the right architecture into those environments, being able to respond, you know, in a meaningful way that's going to ultimately drive value to users and for the users and for the providers of the services, who are building these type of, these type of ecosystems. Again, you know, as I said, you know, data hub, and some of the work that Dell Tech are doing with the CaaS platform is absolutely, you know, perfectly positioned to address those types of, those types of problems and those types of challenges. On the other side, as I mentioned, the, you know, the story solutions that we're doing with SUSE are really taking off as well. So I was involved in a number of years ago in the Ceph program on the Irish government network and, so these would have been very big. And one of the earliest to be honest, Ceph firm I was involved with probably around five, six years ago, perhaps. And the overlying architecture, funnily enough, was, as you probably have guessed by now was SUSE Enterprise. And here we are today building, you know, entire, entire Ceph scale out storage solutions with SUSE. So yeah, what we're seeing is an open ecosystem, a scalable ecosystem and a performant ecosystem that needs to be able to respond and that's what the partnership with SUSE is actually bringing. >> So, Marc, I guess the last thing I'd like to ask you is, you know, we're all dealing with the, the ripple effects of what are happening with the COVID-19 global pandemic. >> Sure. >> You know, I know I've seen online lots that Dell is doing, I'm wondering what is the impact that, you know, you're seeing and anything specific regarding, you know, how this impact partnerships and how, you know, tech communities come together in these challenging times? >> Yeah, that's a great question to end on, Stu. And I think it's times like we're living through at the moment when we see, you know, the real potential of, I guess of human and machine collaboration when you think of the industry we're in, when you think of some of the problems that we're trying to solve. Here we are, a global pandemic, we have a problem that's distributed by its very nature, and I'm trying to find patterns, I guess, I'm trying to model, you know, for the treatment of, you know, COVID-19 is something that's very, very close to our heart. So we're doing a lot on the technology side where we're looking to, as I said, model for treatment but also use distributed analytical architectures to collaborate with partners in order to be able to, you know, contribute to the effort of finding treatments for COVID-19. On the commercial side of things then Dell Tech are doing a huge amount so, you know, we're, for instance, we're designing a, we're designing a financial model or framework, if you will, where our customers and our partners have, you know, can take our infrastructure and our partners infrastructure and those collaborations that we spoke about today. And they can land them into their ecosystem with pretty much zero percent finance. And so it's kind of a, it's an opportunity where, you know, we're taking the technology and we're taking the capability to land that technology into these ecosystems at a very, very low cost, but also give organizations the breadth and opportunity to consume those technologies without having to worry about, you know, ultimately paying up front they can start to look at the financial model that will suit them and that will, that will, that will, hopefully, accelerate their time, their time to market, trying to solve some of these problem that we've been speaking about. >> Well, Marc, thank you so much for the updates. Definitely good to hear about the technology pieces as well as some of these impacts that will have a more global impact. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, my pleasure. Thank you, take care and stay safe. >> Thanks, same to you. All right, I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more covered from SUSECON Digital '20. Thank you, for always, for watching theCUBE. 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>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone. You are watching the cube and we are here in Seattle, Washington at Smartsheet engage 2019 I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Jeff Frick. We're joined by Mark Klein. He is the principal at populace. Thank you so much for coming on the show. My pleasure. Thank you. So you have a very cool job. Tell our viewers a little bit about populace and about what you do. Sure. So populace is actually an architect firm. Our main focuses architecture. We one of the largest sports architecture firms in the world. So we build stadiums and arenas and convention centers and airports and places that people gather is our bread and butter is over 500 worldwide employees that work on that. But we have an event office out of Denver, Colorado where we take our architectural principles and apply them to major gatherings of people in the sporting world and other areas. >>And these are sporting include the includes include the final four >> in the Olympics and all of your NFL major events that are not a regular season game. All of your inner NHL events that happen in stadiums outdoors, all star games, things like that. Any major event, it's a nonstandard event. They really call on us to help make sure that that goes off without a hitch. Yup. >> All right, so talk a little bit about what it was like before you believe what it was like before you use Smartsheet and entered the, the headaches and the problems and that and now what life is like now. Sure, >> so a little more than 10 years ago when I joined the firm, we had a good stable of events and events. We're still kind of just operating off spreadsheets and back in napkins and drawings and things like that as security and to nine 11 was actually a major factor in kind of the growth of our industry where events now had to be planned a little more with more scrutiny. >>We needed a way to better pull our information together and get everybody to to, to, to collaborate on one set of drawings, one schedule who's doing what and when. And Smartsheet has become that prime resource for all of our event planning >> and for in for an event, there's so many outside contractors that you guys have to orchestrate with, whether it be the teams and the associations and the security and the venue and the concessions. The list goes on transportation, on and on and on. So to be able to bring outsiders into your project, >> and that's a new set every year with every event. So you think of the final four, we're going to a new city every year. So EV, I have literally eight months to work with a team to plan a major event that's going to be seen by hundreds of millions of people. And then I've got to pick up and do it again in another city and then another. >>And we're doing that across dozens of events across our team every year. So we may have a vendor that touches the system once. We may have someone who sees us once every third year. So within our environment we have extremely high turnover of people. We have very short period to get them up to speed and working with us. So Smartsheet has been really, really a big part of Hey I need you to better get in here, get your information and work with the tool, get us the information and guess what, you're going to get some feedback on this one too. So it benefits them. >>Right. It's just interesting to me that the level of granularity and detail, you know, we get, we go to a lot of events, obviously there's so much minutia that you have to keep track of from printing on the napkins, you know, to signage, etc. But at the same time, especially in the sporting world, you know, there can be huge changes, you know, especially at the same plow who wins a game, changes the venue. Right? So how do you, how do you use a tool to manage the boat? The tremendous detail when you have the opportunity to plan versus the change of plan a we got to got to shift, >>he hears well so, so we use a lot of the tools that Smartsheet is has built into it for automation. So for example, at the final four, we don't know our teams until Sunday night and that that that Monday we have decor going up, team specific decor. So locker room assignments. As soon as the game is final we send out notifications in Smartsheet to the decor printers that you're printing this graphic, this size, these a locker room assignments, these are the bus assignments. So all of that is, is queued up and ready to go. Um, so a lot of those last minute things that you may think of, we've thought through them and are ready to trigger as many as we can. You're never 100%, but if we can get that 80% 90% triggered and out the door as soon as the decision is made or the team has decided that lets us deal with those others that are a little less planned. >>So, but those are ones where, you know, those are sort of the known unknowns. What about when you have the unknown unknowns, when things like bad weather can affect an event or, I mean, how do you, how do you use Smartsheet into change on a dime when that happened? >>So, um, we, we plan and we plan and we plan. So for example, bad weather is something we have multiple plans for. But where Smartsheet comes into play as I have real time scheduling information sitting on my screen in a control room at an event. So if we have a weather event, we have two or three options that we can pick from. But I'm now looking at the realtime Smartsheet schedule going, all right, if we select option one, be aware we're going to affect these items. If we go with option two, these are the items. So it's the information that has been gathered through that planning phase and everybody's put their information in. So I know what our action is going to cause and the ripple effects of those. >>And Lindsay, the smart, the choose your own adventures when you were a kid reading those, choose your own adventure, want to open >>a door and guess what's there. I want to open a door of a decision and know that this is the follow on effect and I can look at the schedule and the vendors involved of who I'm about to impact with my decision. Right. And do you have the car, you have the comms and all that stuff dialed in there as well? Correct. Yeah. So we're on radio and we're, you know, these, these events, we run control centers. So there's eight or nine of us sitting in a control room. I, I send Mark meter a picture every year of my Smartsheet screen with some field of play behind it, beautiful ball or basketball field and go smart. We're ready to go, keep it up, keep it running for the next few hours. So, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a fairly intense time. Um, when, when we opened doors or we turn on the cameras if those events, because let's face it, there's 70,000 people sitting there and there's usually three triple digit, a hundred millions of people watching on television. >>So it has to go right. That's a lot of pressure. Yes. How do you deal with it? How does your team deal with it? I mean you're used to it of course, but is there, uh, it's the confidence in the plan. I think that has really shaped how we get to that point and don't and don't overreact or get too caught up in the moment. So, um, what we do within the planning of, of our events and with our staff and is we put everybody's tasks in in Smartsheet of course. So my tunnel captain only has to focus on the 40 things that he or she is responsible for. So he may be standing at a team tunnel and we've extracted from the schedule are Austin, here are your 40 items. Don't worry about every, all the chaos going around you. Cause I've got 40 other people out working those items. >>So we filter schedules by either location or staff member so that they can put their blinders on and stay focused on their tasks. And that's really how people can focus and stay. Stay in the moment. What's coming next? What do I need to worry about? Cause there's 4,000 line items in that schedule. I can't have him trying to figure out what are his right at that moment. Mark, I would shift gears a little bit cause you guys came from an architectural bet, the company's architectural background and buildings, venues and stadiums. We just had the new chase. Then you just got finished in San Francisco. Beautiful new facility as the way you guys think about, it's kind of people centric. It's Vinnie's for people in its events for people. What are some of the kind of the guiding principles that make for a good event? A good venue from the people experience point of views. >>There's really multiple sets of customers that I look at at every venue. Obviously we always started the field of play. You gotta get that right? It's gotta be a hundred yards long. It's gotta be. And I thought they broke that rule the other day. We won't go there. Um, so feel to play out. So you've got your competitors, your spectators, and then your operators. All three of those. We focus on all of them equally because if one piece of that triad doesn't work, then the overall experience doesn't work. So obviously the field of play honestly is the easiest part to deal with. But it's an important part. So you look at how a team is going to arrive at a venue bus, whatever the case may be, so that they get to their locker room, get to their services that out to their field and back and forth to media obligations. >>So you don't want to put a media work room halfway across the stadium because then they're making a long Trek. It's a little things like that in the, in the team component, spectators, obviously theirs could be 50 to, if it's a baseball park, 50,000 up to 70,000 in a stadium. We want to ensure that they're going to fully enjoy their two to four hours in that building. Um, so we work on scheduling with our vendor. The one of the biggest things we found in the, in that area is we have really engaged with our contractors, the concessions folks, because they were kind of operating on their own. So engaging concessions to say, don't be moving product when there are people in the building, no one, the timeouts are, we'll call you from control based on the schedule so that we're synchronizing building operations so that they're, the customers are running out of water. >>Well we didn't run out of water, we couldn't get it to you. So things like that are really important to our planning. And then the group that really gets overlooked at, I spend a lot of time on is the people that helped build and get the building ready. Because if my vendors are having a rough time getting their things in the building or building the platform I've asked for or setting up the stage, they're just not going to be in a good frame of mind when the lights turn on. And I want everybody to be, yeah, let's go. We've had a great experience in the five days leading up to this event, whatever it may be. I'm ready now to put on a show. So we use Smartsheet IX so much with our vendors to help guide them through the build process, scheduling, deliveries, getting their credentials where they're going to park and where do I take my breaks? >>Everything is there at their fingertips. So even the mom and pop vendors that I deal with, and there are quite a few of them from city to city, feel like they're as important as my Avi company. So they're excited. They do their load in there like, Hey, this is a great experience and now they're here to help support the event. And then when I call and go, guess what? We have a problem. I need your help. They're going to share, Mark, what can we do? Right? Cause they're there, they're enthusiastic and they didn't feel like I beat 'em up right during that load in great, great insight. People centric. But you're talking about it's treating people like people, not just that they are some cog in the wheel that they are to to execute this task. Right, right. Yeah. No happy staff deliver happy events. >>So what's next in terms of, in terms of a broader adoption in terms of more improvements that you're seeing on the pipeline? Um, so I'm really excited about the collaboration component that was announced today at the keynote. Um, we are an architect firm, so the base of all of our plant, all of our events is a set of drawings, drawings that show what we need, where it is, when it's gonna happen. So all of our non drawing material has lived in Smartsheet for 10 years. I'm now gonna be able to bring those drawings in and get the collaborative information to feedback. So we take a drawing, we'll send it to CBS and say, please Mark up how you think we've drawn your broadcast compound. That has all been email. Now with this collaboration tool, it's going to live in Smartsheets. So I cannot tell you how excited I am about the collaboration component. >>It's gonna. It's gonna really streamline how we do our business. I, I'm kinda lost for words to get in there and try it. My staff is gonna probably go Mark. You can't go to any more conferences, but, uh, I think it's really going to be a great addition to our work process. Um, the other one that has been a personal part of mine, a personal goal that I've seen is the adoption by our staff are the to day work process. Um, I listened in the office, we have a big open work plan space and I listened for my staff going, I've got to put this plan together, attract this and I go, I literally will stand up and walk over. Have you thought about using Smartsheet? And half of the time they haven't. And um, I will say, let me help you through it. Let me get you started and see if it works for you. >>Um, so that organic growth with Smartsheet, um, is, is the big step that we're doing on a day to day basis, um, to get staff introduced to a new way to work and be more collaborative of how they, they manage your information. So, um, just that that kind of growth is, is, is ongoing. Um, but after I've been to the conference, I can say I've got a little more knowledge about it. Let me, uh, let me, uh, help you out a little bit and get you to use it. Right, right, right, right. And you're even finding ways to use it in your personal life, you said? Sure. I use it for home tasks. We plan, we plan our kid's birthday celebrations in it. So my wife and I will share a sheet about who's visiting for graduation. My daughter's high school graduation is coming up. We actually post a forum on Smartsheet coming where they staying at the tag that I put up on the wall over there as people think I work for Smartsheet with how much we use it. So yes, it bleeds into the personal life, but why not exactly a word. I don't fix it. Thank you so much for coming on. The show is a lot of fun talking pleasure. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned. Have more of engaged 2019 here in Seattle. You're watching the cube.

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to bright and sunny San Francisco. Gorgeous day here in the City on the Bay. Dave Vellante, John Walls. We continue our coverage here on theCUBE VMworld 2019 with Doc D'Errico from Infodant, CMO. Doc, good to see you again, sir! >> Infinidat. >> Oh Infinidat! Sorry, sorry, sorry. (Doc laughs) But, good to see you! >> I missed my opportunity but thanks, Dave, yeah, it's good to be back. >> John: You bet. Marc Creviere, who is principle systems engineer at US Signal. Good to see you again, Marc here. You were here just last year, right? >> Yeah, I'm an alumni now. >> We'll touch base on that in just a little bit. Doc, first off, let's just talk about the show from your perspective. What you're doing here, explain to our viewers at home what it's all about and what you find the vibe that's going on this year. What kind of sense do you get? >> The vibe is fantastic The sense is great. Coming back to San Francisco, I'm not sure what we were really expecting but it's a really good tempo, a lot of great people, lot of great feedback on our recent launch. A lot of people looking at what're we doing, especially with VMware and availability. Lots of new use cases for snapshot technologies which is fantastic. The 100% availability, it's great getting people come up to you who say "Hey, this is incredible. "You guys actually put some teeth behind your guarantees," "you know, you're not just promising "some future discounts or something. "In the VMworld environment where I've got my VMs, "I need that kind of guarantee, I need that support. "I need to know that my systems "are going to be there when I need them, "because that's my business," right? It's just an incredible vibe. >> And had your party last night? >> We had our party last night. And guess who was there? (laughs) >> I did stop by, it was a very cool venue. The San Francisco Mint, which is, it was kind of awesome. >> Yeah, it was a great, great environment. It was great having people like Dave there, and some of the other industry luminaries talk to our customers. >> I didn't get the tour of the Vault. >> Doc: I'll get you a picture. (laughing) >> So, Marc, I mentioned in the intro, we had you on last year. So, let's look back at the last 12 months for you. US Signal, and what's been going on with you, and what are you seeing here and kind of feeling here in terms of business? >> Yeah, thanks for having me back. It's been another great year at US Signal. We are planning on opening a new data center in the Detroit Metro area, coming up online Q1 of 2020, so that's exciting for us. Purpose built, wholly owned and operated by us, so that's great. It's going to add to our capabilities in that region. We've had a heavy focus on DR technologies, DR as a Service technologies in the past year. Seeing a lot of success, a lot of really good conversations with customers and developing their plans, and bringing our new capabilities to be able to service those needs. >> So, tell us more about the DR as a Service. I mean, that's obviously one of the early sort of cloud-use cases? >> Marc: Yeah. >> Add some color, what is it all about, how does it relate to some of the other DR solutions that are out there and what role do these guys play? >> Yeah, well we conducted a survey of a little over 100 of companies in our region, a little over 100 respondents, and three out of four respondents told us that their biggest concerns were either distributed denial of service or ransomware. Obviously, we've got these bad actors out there. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad actor, it could be something force of nature making data unavailable, right? It doesn't matter how great the equipment is if either a bad actor or nature takes it out for you. So, having that protection, we're able to have replication technology. We actually have three separate technologies that we use now. We enhanced our Zerto-based offering to include multi-cloud so we can now have customers replicate to either multiple cloud destinations, us being one of them, or they can replicate to one of their sites and us as a tertiary site, so that's new. They're able to bring their existing licensing. One thing that's exciting to me, near and dear to my heart, is drafts for VMware based on the vCloud availability platform. So, we're a big VM, vCloud shop, big consumer of VMware technologies, that's why we're out here, and that's really exciting to me because it uses built in VMware replication technologies. There's not a lot of learning curve, there's not a lot of extra components. Super simple to get up and running and get RPOs as low as 5 minutes, and it's easy, and it's relatively cheap on an OPX-type platform, where you're paying for storage and per VM and that's it. And then we've also spun up a replication for Veeam, Cloud replication for Veeam based on that ecosystem. So, we've got a lot of entry points, a lot of different ways that we can protect that data and bring it in and get a copy in our data center, so in the event that it becomes unavailable at the source, it's either managed or customer managed. We can get it up and running in a short time frame on our infrastructure. >> And Infinidat is the primary storage underneath all this? >> Marc: Yeah. >> So, explain more about... So, Doc, you and I have had these conversations. The state of the art, whatever, 15 years ago, was three-site data centers, very complex, extremely expensive. I'm interested in how we're attacking that problem today. You obviously, with multi cloud, it's multi-site, but how are we attacking the cost problem, the complexity problem, the "I can't test because I can fail over "but I'm afraid to fail back" problem? >> Well, you know, there's so many different ways to cover all of these. We're talking just about ransomware, you know, ransomware are immutable snaps, become an important play and we have Snap Rotator which will allow you to build a certain number of snaps and have them just rotate through so you're not just creating an infinite number, you're not wasting time and space. And, by the way, time and space, our snapshots are zero-overhead. There's zero performance penalty, unless you want to crash consistent copy, and there's really zero data overhead because it's only the incremental data that you write. So, by creating this, you can do it every couple seconds, and then create some immutable copies of that. You know, make them time out, so they can't be modified, 30 days, 60 days, whatever you decide administratively. So that's great. If you're looking for the DRaaS, the DR as a Service-type capabilities, whether it's single site or multi site, going to cloud service providers makes a lot of sense. 'Cause now, even if it's on premises to a cloud service provider, now you're not having to worry about that second set of infrastructure, you're not having to worry about the management of it, you're not having to worry about the systems integration of it, or even go CSP to CSP, right? Go from one data center within your favorite cloud service provider, hopefully US Signal, to another or any one of our great partners would be super, too. And then, of course, InfiniSync, where if you really want that longer distance capability, why bother with a bunker site? Why bother with all that complexity and that cost and overhead? Put in an InfiniSync appliance in with a VM, and you've got the recoverability. You can go asynchronous distances, and have a zero RPO. >> For way, way less. >> Oh, a fraction of the cost. It'll cost you less for the InfiniSync appliance than it'll cost you for the telecoms equipment that you need for a bunker site. >> If I don't want to build another data center... Go ahead. >> What I'm curious about; I heard a number yesterday in one of the interviews we had, about ransomware. The number kind of blew me away, and I thought about one out of every three companies will be a victim of, or at least a ransomware attack within the next two years, which means everyone, over the next six, if you extrapolate that out. Does that sound about right from what you're seeing? That the intrusions are reaching that kind of frequency? >> I'm surprised it's that low, but I'll let Marc try and answer that. >> We've done some events where we actually demo how easy it is, like, through a phishing attack, to get that in there. So, it's not just about having those protections in place, it's your user training; that's a huge area, training those users what to look for in those emails to avoid that sort of thing, but it's not perfect. People are imperfect. >> Dave: And yeah, you got to have both the protection on the front end, the training for the people, and those recovery options in the event it does get in. In our survey, the average monetary damage was over $150,000 per incident. And that means that some people got off a little lighter and some people paid a lot more, if that was the average. >> Should you pay the ransom? >> Uh, not if you've got a good plan in place that can test it. (laughs) >> But it is, it's a reasonable question. >> Huge quandary. Some are, some aren't, right? Atlanta says "no, we're going to pay a boatload "to protect against it, but we're not going to pay that," what was it, 55,000 or whatever it was? >> Let's negotiate. >> Yeah, I think I said last time I was here that until you've tested your plan, you don't really have one. You know, it rings just as true today. >> What's your business worth? I mean, it's a great question, really. What is your business worth to you? Your business is probably worth a lot more, and they probably throw these numbers out there, thinking "Well...", then becomes a no-brainer for you to pay, and that's the whole point. Because what is ransomware? It's malware that's recoverable, maybe. You're not even sure of that. >> Is it usually, is it operator error? Is it human error that allows that to work more often than not? Or, is it a mixture of technical chops, or just...? >> It's a mixture; you've got to know what vulnerabilities are out there on your infrastructure, you got to make sure you're staying up to date on patching those vulnerabilities, paying attention to any compliance practices, if you're a compliant organization. You know, HIPAA, PCI, our entire infrastructure footprint is actually HIPAA and PCI compliant at the levels that we control. So, it's a heavy lift. You got to stick with it. >> But just to kind of bring it full circle to the comment about the ransom and paying it, you know Marc said something really important, "Have a good plan." I would argue, have a good partner. If you don't have a CISO who's got the chops to be dealing with these types of problems, that's when you need a partner like US Signal to really step in and take you through what's involved in a realistic plan, something that's not going to break the bank, something that's really going to protect your business going forward, because these things are very real. >> One of the concerns I have in this topic is that things happen really fast these days. So, if there are problems, they replicate very, very quickly. How do you address that problem? Is it architecture, analytics, I'm sure process, maybe you could add some color to that. >> All of the above. Having those controls in place, those segregations, we've got, obviously, clear segregation between our management and customer data plans. And each of our customer data plans are separate from each other. It's secure multi-tenancy, not just multi-tenancy. So yeah, it's important to keep those delineations, user access, making sure that people only have access to what they need, and a lot of that, again, is covered by those compliance practices and paying close attention to what they have. There are reasons they have these guidelines and these rules and these audits. It's to help, in large part to protect against that. >> You mentioned before, Marc, you're a heavy VMware user, Infinidat, it's kind of the new kid on the block. People said "Oh, they'll never be--" >> Marc: Not for us. >> What's that? >> Not for us. >> Not for you, right, but for the storage industry. Doc and I have been in the storage industry a while. But, I'm curious as to what you want from a supplier like Infinidat, why you chose Infinidat? How're they doing with regard to VMware affinity, all those things people tend to talk about as important. >> Marc: All right, well-- >> What do you think is important? >> Well, in the Infinidat experience, the company experience, the support experience, it is the benchmark by which we judge all other vendors now. It's that good. The working with us whenever we need equipment, obviously they've got, the price per terabyte is hard to beat with the way they're able to leverage that technology. The responsiveness, if we've needed something in a hurry they've been able to get it to us in a hurry, It ties in extremely well with our infrastructure because we scale so quickly, right? Trends are very hard with us, because there's all these hockey sticks. It's going, going, going, we get a big order and it goes up really fast. I think the theme right now is scale to win? >> Yep. >> So that resonates with us because by having that in place and having that scale ready to go, we don't even need to anticipate those hockey sticks because it's already there. >> Great. Well, gentlemen, thanks for the time. We appreciate that. Doc, Infinidat. (laughs) >> Thank you very much it's great to see you both again. >> John: Look forward to see you in 2020, right? >> I'll be back. >> Yeah, it's become an annual thing. >> Michael said we'll be celebrating our 20th year, so I'm looking forward to seeing-- >> And this is our 10th year here, so anniversaries all across the board. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Have a good rest of the show, we appreciate the time. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Back with more VMworld 2019, we continue our coverage live here on theCUBE. We're at Moscone Center North in San Francisco. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from Miami Beach, Florida, It's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris. We're here at day one at VeeamON 2019. This is CUBE's 3rd year of doing VeeamON. We started in New Orleans, it was a great show. Last year was Chicago, and here, Miami at the Fontainbleau hotel. Marc Crespi is here, he's the vice president of sales engineering for the Americas at ExaGrid Systems Cube. Hello Marc, good to see you again. >> Good to see you. >> Thanks for coming on. So, give us the update. What's happening with ExaGrid? You guys got new headquarters in Marlborough. Marlborough's happening these days, right? We got the new shopping spa, and the mayor's going crazy, so give us the update on ExaGrid. >> Yes, so we just moved into a beautiful new headquarters in Marlborough and share it with some great other companies. The company continues to grow rapidly, double digit growth year over year, one of the few companies in this category that's growing that quickly. So everything's great. >> What's driving the growth? >> Well, customers are looking to fix the economics of backup. They've been spending too much money on it for a lot of years, so they look at products now, they want them to be simple, easy to use, and very cost-effective and we drive that trend very hard. >> Yeah I mean that doesn't really describe- what you just described, simple, easy to use, and cost-effective really doesn't describe backup for the past 20 years. So what are you doing specifically to make it simple, cost-effective, and easy to use? >> Well, first of all, by working with companies like Veeam. Veeam is a very easy-to-use product, it's very intuitive and then our product integrates very well with it so the products work together very well and makes just a very simple solution. >> What do you see as other big trends in backup? showed a slide today, 15 billion dollars. A big chunk of that, maybe close to half of it was backup and recovery, there's all kind of other stuff: data management, analytics, etc, etc, etc. What do you see, obviously cloud, you talked about the big superpowers, what are the big trends that are driving your business and more importantly, your customers transformation? >> Well, customers are looking to reduce the amount of data that they actually have to move. So, incremental technology's a really big- themes of pioneer in that, obviously doing incremental backups and that saves time and effort, saves space, along with data deduplication, it really makes for cost-effective storage solution. >> Talk a little bit more about why you're growing, how you sort of uniquely compete in the marketplace with some of the big whales. >> Sure, so our most unique feature is our architecture, and it has both technical aspects and economic aspects. Because we're a scale-out architecture, meaning that with every capacity increase of your data, we're not just adding storage, we're adding CompuPower network memory, etc. so that we keep the backup times very, very, very low. That also makes for a very cost-effective architecture because what we've done is you can scale out pretty much infinitely and we've also eliminated the concept of the end of a life of products. So we never force our customers into mandatory refreshes so their economics are very predictable over a long period of time. >> What do you see as the biggest use cases today that are driving your business? I mean, obviously, backup and recovery, I talked earlier about some of these emerging data management, cloud obviously, is this big, Edge, you seeing much going on there. What are some of those workloads and use cases that you see? >> I think probably one of the biggest use cases these days is what I would call instant recoveries, meaning that rather than doing a traditional restore, which could take a long number of minutes to hours. Customers will actually run production workloads off of the backup target as a way to get users back productive more quickly than would've been done in the past. >> Yeah, and that's key because you see in RPO and RTO's sort of companies putting more and more pressure on the IT groups to shrink those times, presuming you're seeing that in conjunction with digital, digital business, digital transformation. You talked about architecture before. What about your architecture and maybe with your partnership with Veeam allows customers to shrink those RPO and RTO times? >> I think the other aspect of our architecture that's very unique is what we called adaptive deduplication. One of the things we looked at when we architected the product was deduplication is obviously a very effective technology, but what are potential cons. Things that would make it less effective in backup. And one of the things we realized was if you put deduplication in the middle of the backup window and due to deduplication while the backups are running, then you could interfere with the speed of disk. So we do something called adaptive deduplication which means that we allow the object from the backup software to land and then we deduplicate and replicate them in parallel, but we make sure that we're not throttling the backups. So, we provide disk speeds even though we use deduplication. >> Okay. So, that's an example of one of the things you're doing to sort of improve it. How about Veeam integration? Is there anything specific there that you're doing that we should know about? >> Well, part of it is because of adaptive deduplication and because we maintain complete copies of backups. We uniquely support instant Veeam recovery like no other vendor can. Furthermore, we run what's called the Veeam data remover which is actually Veeam technology runs inside of our appliance and sets up a optimized communication protocol with the Veeam software that allows us to do a number of great things. >> Wait, double click on on that. So, is it an efficient protocol or is there other sort of accelerators that you've got in there? >> The protocol is optimized, and then we do some other acceleration around how you do synthetic folds and things of that sort that are unique to the data mover. >> And you have news with Veeam this week, do you not? >> Yes, we do. We're announcing something called ExaGrid backup with Veemam and what it is in a nutshell is the ability for a customer to purchase both technologies from their preferred reseller by just ordering one part number. So it dramatically simplifies the acquisition of the two technologies and allows customers to simplify the buying process. >> So Veeam, I know, is all channel sales. How about you guys? How do you go to market? >> We also are, yes. >> So, talk more about your go-to market. What do you have? Like, an overlay sales force that it helps facilitate? You got partners? Maybe you can talk more about your ecosystem. >> Well, we have a worldwide sales force and our sales people, the people that do the selling, work directly with our partners, so we don't have a specialized channel workforce, but we have a specialized channel strategy, and our entire sales team is very well trained on the channel, how to work with the channel, and make them happy and successful. >> So, backup for a long time time was kind of an afterthought. It was non-differentiated. You just did what you needed to make sure the devices could be recovered. >> Yeah, you bolted it on. >> You bolted it on. >> Right. >> Increasingly, it's becoming recognized as a central capability to any digital business, because if your data goes away or your data's no longer available, your digital business is gone. >> Right. >> That suggests we're going to get a greater degree of differentiation in the types of devices, in the types of systems, etc, that are going to become part of a backup solution. First of all, do you agree with that? And then secondly, go back to the use cases, where do you guys see yourselves fitting into that increasingly federated backup capability? >> Well, I certainly do agree with it. I mean, it's always been a necessity, but now even with things like Ransomware and the cryptoviruses, and things of that sort, it's even more important than it's ever been. It's no longer just data loss, etc. So, we fit into that trend and we'll continue to fit into that trend by continuing to drive the economics through the floor. Customers want that level of protection, it's a little bit like insurance. You need the protection, but you don't want to pay a dollar more than you have to, right? So you want to put it on an economic diet, and the way our technology evolves, we come out with denser, faster systems at a lower cost per terabyte just about every year. And we'll continue to do that. >> So do you anticipate then that there's going to be specialized use cases or are you just going after taking costs out of the equation? >> It's not so specialized because it's very horizontal. Everybody does it and everybody backs up all their data. So, we don't specialize in any one area of the data center like database or anything of that sort. We go wherever the customer needs us to go inside their data center. >> It's in the data center, sorry David, it's in the data center. >> In the data center, we also have a cloud offering, we have partners that will offer disaster recovery as a service, so they'll have data centers that manage on behalf of the customers, and we also have an offering that goes into Amazon web services. And, shortly, we'll be coming out with one for Azure. >> And that is what? A software based offering that uses the cloud as a target? >> Correct, it's a virtual appliance that you can replicate into the cloud. >> All right. We don't have much time left tonight, we have a really important topic to cover, which is, we talked about last year, but I want to bring it up again, which is sports. >> Yup. Why don't we talk Boston sports, we could talk about Warriors. I got a question for you, but- >> I'll watch >> I asked you last year, and I think it was May, we were in Chicago, I said "Would you have traded Tom Brady?" At a time when the sentiment was, he was done. And you said "No way, absolutely not." You, Peter McKay, and Patrick Osmond all said emphatically no, you made the right call. So good job. >> Thank you. >> Your thoughts? >> Would never trade him. He can play until he's 100 for all I care. As long as he keeps performing at such a high level, why would you lose him? >> And then, of course, the Red Sox, 108 wins, that was an amazing gift that they gave us. So, I don't know if you're a baseball fan. >> I am. >> All right, I got to ask you, Peter. Are the Warriors the greatest basketball team in the history of basketball? >> Well, let's see... >> Brendan says yes. >> They are the best basketball team at a time of the most competitive NBA. Some of the rules have changed, but the athletes are better, they're more conditioned, they are more knowledgeable by how to play this game, and they are the best team in basketball without Kevin Durant and without Boogie Cousins. >> Yeah. >> So ... hard to argue. >> They're sweeping Portland without Durant which is pretty amazing. So Brendan, for years, has been trying to tell me that. You know, Brendan is our local basketball genius so, I don't know. >> Now, would the Warriors have beaten say a Bill Russell Celtics team with the Celtics- Bill Russell Celtics team rules? Maybe not. >> Yeah, I don't know. I would say I'm starting to come around to Brendan's way of thinking. But, Marc, we'll give you the last word here. VeeamON 2019, great venue here in Miami, very hip, hip company, hip venue, ExaGrid growing, double digit growth rate, so congratulations on that. Your final thoughts? >> Just great to be here, I always like coming to Veeam events, they're always very well attended, I get to meet a lot of customers and really enjoy it. >> Marc Crespi, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. Peter and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is VeeamON 2019 and you're watching theCUBE.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by Extension Interactive. >> Welcome back, everyone. Live cube coverage here in Las Vegas for adobe summat. Twenty nineteen. I'm John for With my Coast. Jeffrey for Yu here for two days. The wall, the wall coverage We're on day to our next guest. Marc Andre Sinclair, director of digital marketing Platform Content Strategy Export Development Canada E D. C. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you. So love your channel. Digital marketing platform content strategy. That's kind of in the center of all the action. So, you know, you've been doing some transformation. Tell us your story. What do you guys do? What was what was that? What's the story? >> So I joined E. C. Exported moment Cata two years ago, really helping them out on the overall digital transformation. So I've been fortunate, joined the organization as the moment that they're our position. We wanted to change like we weren't a mandate to gain back some relevance in the market. CDC exists how occasion businesses go beyond the borders, go international. So they really wanted to be relevant to the market because we're not competing with the markets were really just like a compliment in a market. So we've been on that journey distrust, transformation For the last two years, we've are now competing the first phase of a transformation and just about two years, which normally takes four years in the industry. And we're now add midway to our overall digital transformation. We want a critical the number of customers that we have in four years, but it's a very aggressive target what we call normal, like a stretch goal that are serious put. So that's what we've been up to in the last two years. >> And what >> was the catalyst? Why the change? Because, well, what was going on kind of behind the scenes t make such an aggressive, so aggressive move. If you look at >> the interest you overall, there's a major shift in what is export. So exporting means merchandising guys ing good for most of the people. When when you look at the shipping industry to software and services, these folks are not perceiving themselves as being on exporter like really, you build a software, you sell it. You don't think about your software getting beyond the borders. So the industry, the overall market size, are the number of companies that we could help in. The country has grown, but our number of customer remained flat. So we wanted to catch back at that market reach. And there was a theater in Perth. Is that forced us to change? But basically it started. What? Our CEO Putting forward a strong paper cultured like really forced people to think differently and change. >> What's the progress Like how you happy with the progress so far? Absolutely. What are what are some of the things you've knocked down already? What was the pick us through the steps? They could screw up the plan. What was the What is the plan? What is completed were how much how much is left. >> OK, so it started for us as a strong investments and over all the marketing tech stocks which started obviously where I will be summit. So we started in the vestments with the Adobe expense manager and it was about us changing the technology that we had in terms of delivering a customer experience. So your approach we took wass people processing technology. But at the middle, we really put the customer experience at the forefront of everything at the art of every decisions. Makings. So for us were Margaret, we're finishing the migration as we speak right now. That's the first phase. And now with the partner that we have X censure. We're looking in terms ofthe archaic. How can we build capabilities back in the business? Because we've outsourced are full function to our partner. And now it's about how do we get the right level of cost tower scalability for the future so we can deliver premium customer experience. So a lot of activities have happened. We went into natural transformation at the same time, the organization has embraced our job overall and now we're really thinking about was the future data customer experience. So these are the biggest shift that their condition is looking at As we stand right now, we've done the migration and we can now start to think about personalization experimentations. These are all the cool things that we have ahead of us. >> What was the heavy lifting hard part of getting this off the ground? What, some learning or any experiences where you, you know, failed miserably and rebooted or reset means you learned through it oration. We see these successful projects. What's the key learnings? Have you had any moments like that? >> Definitely So So, First of all, I would like to talk a bit about the fail approach because this is something that wasn't obviously part of the organization. And that is something fundamental to a change in organizations. So to quote my boss fail stance or first attempt and learning, So you got to get out and you got to try things and we gotta experiment. Otherwise, you're not really pushing the boundaries. Eso I'm proud of her failure and actually won an award about failure last year at our, um, organizations. So they have a corporate awards that recognise people that do fails but move on and fell fast, like that's a spirit. So for us as, say, at the beginning, the biggest part of a project was to get the what I call the M V P. Zero. So we have to change from a nun premise toe called architectures. And when you start to do these things at an organization that has never done cloud, you uncover a lot of stuff a lot of security protocols, firewalls kicking in. So our first BP zero just to set the infrastructure has been quite a challenge. I think we went three times out, and the third time was the right one. But this is the critical one where you start to build credibility. And even though for us we're working and agile every two weeks without ever cradle to grave, everything full blown experience, this one was really a longer one. And we were really made sure that the requisition understood that this is complicated When you do the foundation. This >> is company goes cousins to say its foundational. So I'm going to take your time. You've got to get that right. Can't have any cracks in the foundation because you're building on top of it. Exactly. So that three attempts you. You said you went out for forbid, or how did three attempts of building it was >> so the throughout That's R about us deploying the full Levi's serology in the clouds. So first time we went uncover a few things. Second time, not anything pop up weren't aware. And then the third time we went out. Third time's a charm to say we went >> out. It was good >> way. Nailed it on that >> time. It's the >> price I didn't invite you on stage. I don't know if you caught that in the Kino. Towards the end of his keynote, he said, We need to have an award for people that disproved their own hypothesis. Exactly so. But you said it's interesting. He said. The people part was hard in the process, and yet it was a top down initiative from the CEO. So was it not bought in a kind of the mid tier management level? The senior management? Why, if the COC and we need to do this, was it hard to move those different party organization? Well, >> I'd say the people part was more about having the right talent on the right mind sets. So one to CEO put forward the culture paper, the stretch goals. Really the organization started to organize themselves on. Are we going to make that thing happened now? Like we need to work differently. And this is not about just more cash, more at counts. We need to re engineer a bit the way we were working, so I wouldn't say that there was an issue with with the way or the people of today was just like you start through higher scrums, you start the heart coach to start our appeal. These are skills says that you've never had. Like at the beginning of the project, we had new marketing talent. We had new partner for the ritual that every we have a new partner for agile and we also have new technology. So you start with a lot of new stuff at the same time. So I'd say these are natural things that you have to do. Is it easy? No, not necessarily. But we had a lot of support from the sea level standpoint. >> It sounds like you guys have a very Dev ops oriented culture because talking about failing fast is a cultural cloud concept. I mean agile iterating scrums. This's a dev ops mindset, infrastructure. It's code. Did you guys have that built in Or you said you started three years ago. Was that was that the core cultural mindset? >> So I wouldn't say that we're a dev ups type of culture of mentality, I would say, actually, it's probably the part that we still need to invest hard because now we build a fully whole machine that scaring and pushing the machine you start uncover that once you go that full cycle, few things are popping up, so you know, and and the in the nineties are beginning of this of two thousands. Like when you were thinking about nal ticks, people were always like, Okay, let's let's do this on our techs use case. Our position at the end. Let's do your documentation at the end. It tends to be the same thing with Dev up. Sometimes like we have a strong architectural when in terms of regression, automation and all these things, we truly need to invest a bit more so we can have a because we're playing every single two weeks that we wanted or not. So that's a lot of pressure on all the people that do, que way you waited to make sure everything >> you want to get it right first, then kind of bolted on after as more of an operational models >> way had a very strong foundation, and now we're spinning everything. >> It's all I got to ask you about the export piece of it because, obviously, um, international global competitiveness is a big force. Right now, people have to be global and data privacy. You mentioned. We talk about genie pr before we came on camera you an opinion on this. Do you have anything? You? Could you please share your view on TV? I really Well, I thought it's valuable. >> Yeah, absolutely. So what I didn't mention when we chatted about that before is Wei thought a lot about you. We need to comply to GDP. Are because this is ah, European regulation. And we headed up that Yes, a CZ. Because we have prisons internationally and erupts. Not everyone that has that opinion that they need to comply. But what we've uncovered was one, one or two weeks before the D days on May twenty fits that We needed to be compliant. So what has happened is in two weeks, we stop everything. We worked twenty four hours for two weeks to restructure the platform to make sure that we were, like, compliant to do CPR. And then after that, we fought a lot. Next few months, we'LL look into it. Are we going to make that thing right? Because people are scared of gpr, but that you want it or not? This is just a beginning way. See it with the California Act Canada as a castle. I'm pretty sure they're going to be very aggressive, so you need to make sure that you really invest in. There are privacy management and all these things. At the end of the day, if it's well done, your customers will love it. The issue is people are being a bit sneaky without the use data. But if you're being transparent and you're being honest with the way you use the data and you're being fully disclosing what you're doing, it's not an issue you need to embrace it. Actually, I think that's a commis it embrace it because it's going to be part of our journey that we >> want to do the tough work up front for you. He was forced to because you are building something new. And then, well, the deadlines here, so is the struggles. Hard works. He had to grind it out. So you and then once you get over that, prepare for it, invested it, nurture the strategy for that. What's the advice to give someone sets there has to do the GPR and might not be into the time pressure, but it's starting out and saying Okay, I got to get my arms around this. What's the core issues well, getting started, not colour, but like what's playbook? >> So the playbook and say like if you think about G p r. This is basically for the European. You If they're not giving you the right tio leverage cookies and tracking and all these things, you should not be doing it. So it's simply thinking in your implementation of a piece of software that goes at the beginning that says, Do you want to have full functional thief, full personalization or not? And don't look at GDP R. But look at the customer experience. If you put the customer once again at the forefront and you really think about what does it make sense? You know if if you and I get on the Web sites and we see that thing that is fronting A, I know what you've done last summer like it's kind of creepy. You don't want to have these things. And so you just build that customer experience around their privacy management, and then everything will fall together. >> So build it into the product. >> Yeah, platform, yeah, and do it the right way and compliance will follow. Don't do it to be compliant. Don't >> exactly do it through a customer experience, >> right? Right. So how's this success band in terms of getting into some of these new markets for you in terms of software and services and some of the other export markets? So, so >> interesting question, because two years ago a DC was focused on to court things, financial products and insurance products. So right now we've expended our product line, and we're now having this what we call knowledge business. So if you think about occasion, business or any business that wants to go beyond the borders, this's quite scary to go in the international game. So now we're capable of offering them a lot of insights on international market out the exports virus key questions that haven't her journey. So we're not helping them to our journey and also as were wet and better than the international supply chains. We're helping them with connecting with big, big companies that are leveraging or looking for some capabilities that we have in the country. So we've really skilled up the product line that we have. We're really shifting the model. We're working a lot with the banks and the way we're supporting the Cajun businesses so like it's days and nights, the type of products that have a solution, the experience that were providing, uh, from two years ago. Do we still have work? Absolutely. Like digital transformation is never such a thing that is completed. The key essence here. The key message is, it's never done, and the customer experience has to be at the forefront if you think about the customer experience. It just happened that most of the experiences digital these days so test our mission is never handing. >> I think I think it's a great mind set. I think that's so smart. It's not just about mobile first or cloud for just customer center. From the beginning, I'm gonna ask you the question. What's it like working with a century Iraq? That what role that they play with a easy to work with the good? What's the story? >> Absolutely. I'm very pleased with the team that we had. We have strong people from Accenture were fully leveraging the network that they have because they're distributed in the global business. Axe Central, for us, is doing all the delivery stuff, the the very difficult stuff behind the scene that is normally like your function that you haven't an organization. So we've been extremely pleased on DH. Actually, I think that the fighter fact that were capable of delivering every single two weeks and agile were pure, agile. You will hear in the industry that some people think they're our job, but they're actually hybrid Elijah. So we're full blown, agile the organization. And they've been strong partner with us on that journey. >> That's awesome. Well, I love the story looking for to keep it in touch. Keep us posted on When you get this transformation. I look forward to chatting. And thanks for sharing your story. And inside here in the Cube, my pleasure. Mark Andreessen, Claire customer here inside the cute telling about the journey and the struggles and GDP are get on it and make it an advantage. Great. Great line there. And digital is the future. I'm Jeffery Jeffery. More day to coverage with the Cube after the short break

>> From the Salesforce Tower in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Accenture Tech Vision 2019, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco with a brand newly open Salesforce Tower, the 33rd floor, the middle of the brand new Accenture Innovation Hub. We're excited to have our next guest, who's been part of the Innovation Labs and the Innovation Hubs and a lot of innovation in the center for years and years and years. You've seen him before, we're at the 30th anniversary, I think last year. All the way from Paris, is Marc Carrel-Billiard. He is the Senior Managing Director for Accenture Labs. Marc, great to see you again. >> Great to see you Jeff again as well, I'm so happy. >> So, what do you think of the new space here? >> I love it, I just love it. I saw it building and everything and now it's ready, and we open it today, I mean it's just amazing. The stairs, did you see the stairs? >> I saw the stairs, yes. >> Really amazing, everything's good there. I think it's not an office, like Paul already said, it's really something better and I think it's a tool for explaining what is innovation at Accenture at play, I mean, how we use it, how we connect the labs, we use the liquid studio, all the ventures and everything, that's great. >> Great. But now it's all brought together, right? You had a couple satellite locations in the Bay Area-- >> Yeah and I think that with the story of putting all this stuff in what we call the Innovation Center, the Innovation Hub, and so putting everything in the same building and have different floors where we can address different talking with our clients. Are we talking about research? Are we talking about more polythiophene? Are we talking about, I mean ideally, it's all about driving innovation at scale. >> Right, right. >> At scale. >> So, we're here for the technology vision-- >> We are. >> Which will be in, in a little bit and then, Paul and they team will present-- >> Yep, they will. >> Five new transfer for 2018. One of the ones they called is DARQ, D-A-R-Q, >> I know. >> Which is distributed ledger technologies, formerly known as blockchain, but we don't want to call it blockchain. AI, extended reality, which is every kind of form, extended, augmented-- >> Mix relating everything, that's right. >> And quantum computer. >> You bet. >> So, from the labs point of view, from an Accenture kind of innovation looking forward, inventing the future, as you like to say, which I think is a great tagline, what are some of your priorities going forward, now that you got this great new space? Which is one of what I think 11 in the United States, right? >> So, my priorities are all of them, I mean, all of the above! Because I was like, do you remember at the time we were talking about SMAC? Like Social Mobility, there was analytics and cloud. I would say that DARQ is the new SMAC. So, we saw that basically, that technology has evolved and, from analytics, we'd like more AI work and everything, but it's still being combined and everything. You can still think about social media, collaborative stuff, we going to go through immersive reality where we going to continue collaborating. Think about cloud. I mean, just like cloud will bring you height, throughput computing power through the cloud. Well, I mean, also quantum computing can give you like amazing capability in terms of computing power. So I would say probably, like, DARQ is a new SMAC and so the lab has been working on it since, I would say, not since day one, but at the very beginning. And so, well obviously distributed ledger, you know that we have a lab in Sophia Antipolis, they're really spending a lot of time in the blockchains. So there's a couple of things that we're doing. I give you a couple of ideas. One is, maybe people talk about blockchains, and there's bunch of blockchains all over, there's like blockchains for manufacturing, there's blockchains for trade finance, there's blockchains for this and that. Problem is there's no very good interoperability between those blockchains. One thing that the lab is going to be working is how we can interoperate between those different blockchains. So you are basically a supply chain, you want to connect to a financial organization, how their blockchain will connect to your blockchain. Number one. The second thing we're going to be working on is the SMAC contract. The lab believes the SMAC contract is not smart enough. So we going to add more artificial intelligence in the SMAC contract to see what we could do better. Think about this SMAC contract as a stock procedure in database. How we make those stock procedure a little bit better. I mean, it's just analogy type of thing. >> Obviously, the blockchain conversation, any kind of demo, talking about DHL-- >> Yeah, DHL, exactly. >> But is that logistics, that merchandise move through their system, as you said, there's a lot of different touch points with a lot of different systems. So it's not an aggregated system, it's a problem, and the other thing is you don't necessarily need all the data for each person, >> You don't. >> Or transaction all along the line, right? >> You're absolutely right. And I talk about interoperability between blockchains, but there's going to be also interoperability between the blockchain that you're implementing and the legacy environment that you have. And this needs to be addressed as well. So lot of thinking about blockchains, I've always said for me that blockchain is the digital right management of your future. That kind of protocol, and we're working with companies that are basically creating movies and stuff like that, and how we leverage blockchain to change those movies between different parties. I mean, there's going to be a lot of cool stuff that we're going to be able to do. So that's blockchain. The D for distributed ledger. A for artificial intelligence. So artificial intelligence obviously is something very beginner labs. We have three labs that are delegated to artificial intelligence. >> Three? >> Yup, out of seven. One here, San Francisco. The other one in Bangalore, and the third one in Dublin, Ireland. And each of them are covering a little part of the things that we want to do with artificial intelligence. It's all about accelerating the artificial intelligence, so how we're going to think about new infrastructure, a new way of doing machine learning, using weak labeling, it's all about explainable AI, how you're going to connect the knowledge graph with machine learning, so that's the probabilistic model will give you an explanation of why they've decided to select this picture, or this information and so forth. And basically the other things we're going to be working on, artificial intelligence, is that human-machine interaction, and one thing that we want to address is what we call the conversational aspect of virtual agents. If you look at virtual agents today, voice comment type of things. >> Right, right. >> You can't really engage in a conversation. I want to look at that. How they're going to understand context, and how you're going to be exchanging better, and how you're going to flow a better conversation with that. One thing that's going to be very important in everything that we're doing is going back to semantic network, knowledge management, knowledge graph. How we combine knowledge graph with all these machine learning capabilities. That's artificial intelligence in the lab. >> Then you get, we'll just work down the list, right, then you've got the extended reality. >> Extended reality. >> So whatever kind of reality it is. >> So we're going to continue doing a lot of stuff for extended reality, immersive learning, we're going to use that, I think what's going to be important for us is that not to look at extended reality just from a vision standpoint, but try to use the combinatorial effect of every immersive sense that you have. So like, basically, hearing, also, smelling, touching the aptic, and how you combine all those senses to change completely, not the vision, but the experience. What you really feel. In fact, if you go to this Innovation Hub, I don't know if you've seen that we have an igloo-- >> We did, I saw the 360. >> That's right the 360, to try to immerse you already in some quantum computing experience, I think it's a good segue way also for quantum. So quantum, is that we've been doing a lot of progress with quantum too, you know, two years ago we started already to work with D-wave and then we have work with this company called 1QBit, so we build a software, so we use their software development kit, to program the quantum computer, and then we work with Biogen to do drug discovery, and changing the way you do that, by accelerating that through quantum computing. But we've continued, we've announced basically some partnership with IBM to look at their platform, we're continuing working with other interesting platform like Fujitsu, their Digital Annealer, and so forth, and what we want to do is that Accenture is very, very agnostic related to all those vendors. What we want to do is that we want to understand more about how you program those different architecture, how you see what type of problems they can solve, and how based you can program them. And so if we use the Abstraction Layer on top of all the others, and we can program on top of that, this is really cool, this is exactly what we want to do. >> So how close is it? How close is it to getting the production ready? I mean, you got it in the new vision for 2019, I mean, what are people just playing with it or is it ready for prime-time. >> No, no, no. >> Where is it these days? >> So first of all, DARQ stuff, all the people, all of our clients-- >> I mean quantum specifically. >> Okay quantum-specific. I think we're talking about three to five years to start to have real solutions. Right now, we have prototype, but we're moving to more pilot, and I think the solution will come soon. Probably in five years time, we're starting to ascend soon. Let me give you another idea. >> So the order of magnitude difference in the way that you can compute, the AI. >> Exactly, and I think that's going to change the game. It's going to change the game on everything. Let me give you maybe a last example that I'm sure you're going to love. And it's all about optimization matchmaking. Our tech vision this year is all about hyper-personalization, plus on-demand delivery, and so that's how at the moment, you know, you're going to change the game. The momentary moment. How you're going to change the reality of people. What you're going to be able to do. I'm going to tell you that, where we're going to use quantum computing. We're going to use quantum computing to do a better matchmaking between a person who is waiting for an organ and an organ that you can transplant to this person. And the moment is the accident that happens on the street. There's going to be someone basically dying on the street, so someone dead and then you need, basically, to get this organ, it could be a kidney, for example, every organs have a time-lapse that you can use basically to transport that to someone else. Now the question is that you have the organ, it's in basically an ice-cubed environment-like box, and then you transplant that to someone, you have like few hours to figure out who are the best receiver. And this is hyper-personalization, because you need to understand the variable of all the body that is going to receive that but all the variables of the organ, until now is all main front to do the matchmaking. We're rethinking that using quantum computing. >> It's just wild, you know, what the cloud really enabled to concept. If you had infinite compute, infinite store, and infinite networking, at basically free, asymptotically approaching free, what would you build? And that's a very different way to think about problems. >> Not only will we build some amazing things, but I think we would change the reality of every people. Every people will have their own reality that they could use product and service the way they want it, and this will be a completely different, not a world, but a game set, that would be completely different. >> Marc, we're almost out of time, but I just want to ask you about Pierre, former CEO of Accenture passed away recently, and I was really struck by the linked investors. So many people, you know, I follow you, I follow Paul, a lot of people posted, what a special man, and what an impact he had, sounds really personally with most of the leadership here in Accenture. I was wondering if you could share a few thoughts. >> Well obviously, I mean, everyone's been very sad that we lost Pierre. I mean, he was just an amazing person. He was really a role model, not only in business, but in life. And he was so fun about fun of innovations, he loved the labs, he loved what we could do in it, I think he was really thinking about better future for the people, better future for the world, and everything, and it was really amazing for that. Everyone was struck really to see that. But I think there was so many testimonials pouring from our people, but what I was even more amazed was our clients. He really moved clients. And his visions is an amazing legacy for Accenture, and we're going to, I mean, this is so precious what he left us and I think that I really want the lab, every day that we're inventing something, I'm always thinking about Pierre and what he would have thought about these things. He was always enthusiastic reading our research paper and everything, so definitely the lab's going to continue to innovate, and I hope that Pierre, wherever he is, will be watching. >> I'm sure he's smiling down. >> And will be happy with that. >> Alright, well Marc, thanks a lot for taking a few minutes and congratulations on this continual evolution of what you guys are doing with labs and Innovation Centers, and now the Innovation Hub here in downtown San Francisco. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> Alright. He's Marc, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at downtown San Francisco at the Accenture Innovation Hub as part of the Accenture Technology Vision 2019 presentation. Thanks for watching. See you next time. (light electro music)

(orchestral music playing) >> Hi. I'm Peter Burris. Welcome to another Cube Conversation. Brought to you by theCUBE from our beautiful studios in Palo Alto, California. Great conversation today. We're going to be speaking with Datera about some of the new trends and how we're going to utilize data within the business, with greater success, generating more value to superior customer objectives. To do that, we've got Marc Fleischmann, who's the CEO and Founder of Datera. Marc, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> And Guy Churchward, who's the Executive Chairman of Datera. >> Yeah, thank you Peter. >> So guys, this is a great topic, great conversation, very very timely industry. One of the reasons is we've heard a lot about the Cloud-native stack. Now the Cloud-native stack is increasingly going to reach into the enterprise and not just demand that everything come back to the cloud, but bring the cloud more to the enterprise. Well one of the things that's still something of a challenge is and how do we bring data given it's native attributes into that model more successfully. Marc, what are the issues? So look, ultimately we believe it's all about data freedom, the capability to extract the value of data across the enterprise. However, as long as we continue to think about proprietary systems silos, where data is trapped, where it can't move freely across the enterprise, we're not going to be able to get there. So ultimately what it requires is changing our thinking of infrastructure from a hard for centric prospective to a service centric prospective. Ready applications drive the needs from the data, where it's an application centric perspective that automatically drives how data is actually consumed across the enterprise. >> But the, we've been thinking about that through software defined, ECI, and other, you know, hyperconversion infrastructure in other things. But at the end of the day, we really have to make sure that we're doing so in a way that marries to the realities of data. >> Absolutely. >> Talk to us a little bit about how Datera is providing that substrate that is native to data, but also native to the cloud. >> Absolutely. So I would describe Datera as Datera is to data what Kubernetes is to compute. What do I mean by that? First of all, it's all about data orchestration. We orchestrate the data just like Kubernetes would orchestrate compute. That's the foundation of our platform. Now if we don't deliver enterprise performance, so that we can actually, you know, replace existing storage, we wouldn't be able to actually broadly deploy. So we have enterprise performance as well. And lastly, to get away from a hard for centric model, we offer wide variety, wide choice, future ready choice of Harver. Those are the three key tenants that we actually see as getting to that vision. >> So Guy, you've been in this business a long time. You've looked at a lot of changes in technology, for rays where we were mainly focused on persisting data to now some of the new technologies, we were more focusing on delivering data to new classes of applications. From your perspective, how does this message Marc's bringing line up with customer needs? >> Yeah, I know, appreciate it. I mean that was one of the reasons that when I had the opportunity to work closely with Datera, I kind of jumped into it. You know, because part of this is, as Marc said, data freedom. Unlocking, in other words, unlocking from the boundaries of basically a physical location. I think, you know, we always aspire and believe that we want to move towards a cloud, a pure cloud model. But we're going to be in this transition for five, six, seven years where we have on premise a bit of hybrid and a bit of distributed and things like Intelligent Edge. So in other words, the whole concept is to say how do I utilize data no matter where it is into a fabric or a mesh. And I think that the industry that we all live in sort of, by accident, tries to own the data, you know. It doesn't matter whether you own it in a physical construct of a data center or we own it in a physical construct of a piece of hardware or a proprietary format. But in essence you have these data silos absolutely everywhere. And so for me to move to a cloud, you've got the simplicity you need. You've got the orchestration that you actually need. But you need this freedom outside of the bounds of a physical location or a piece of tent. >> I want to return back to the issues of performance >> Yeah. >> and the need for performance because the world that you just laid out guys, makes an enormous amount of sense to me and the Wikibon community. But it does mean that this data generated by that application in this location may have value to some other applications somewhere else that may have completely different performance action. >> Absolutely. >> So let's talk about that need for ensuring, that again, this notion of a native data approach to incorporating data into the cloud. How does the performance angle really work? >> I would argue where traditional self defined storage, SDS, fell short was exactly on the promise of performance. We saw that we contributed a significant part of the Linux data path itself. The way we architected the system, we delivered true, primary application performance. So that in combination with the ability to orchestrate data across the data center, across multiple data centers, and ultimately across the data center and the cloud gives you the best of both worlds. It gives you primary workloads, the ability to actually serve primary workloads across multiple protocols, but to serve them location dependent, wherever you like, because we orchestrate the data through those places. >> And- >> So- >> Oops! Go ahead. >> Sorry. It's the coffee. It's going to kick in. (Peter laughs) So I mean part of it is not just that, but it's also the life cycle. >> Ah, very true. Right, I mean and, you know, this is the thing that kind of attracts me is, and you mentioned, you know, what you learn with the amount of hair I don't have now and the gray beard I've got is, you know, there's one thing about this sort of data boundaries and things getting locked in. The other one is the speed of which people want to build an application. They need it to be have the enterprisilities, and then they'll take the application down. You know, if you kind of think when we started in the industry and it would last 20 years. And then 10 years. And then five years. And now you look at it saying somebody wants an enterprisility application up and running within two or three months, which is preposterous, but needs to be done. And then it might be down within a month. Because- >> Oh 15 years ago it took us two or three months to create the test data required for the application to follow up. >> Right, and how many people would ever used to tell you never use an application if it's a window zero. But we're talking about, in a window zero period, they're actually going to serve their communities, the most critical thing. Data is it for a company. If you're analytics don't run as fast as your company's competitive space, you're behind. So if you're going to analyze something that application that you bring up to analyze has to be critical to your business. And that's going to go up and it's going to go down. So in other words, it's going to go from test and dev, up into production, tier zero, then tier one, tier two, tier three, and then out into an archive in a period of time that normally a window zero would gestate. And so you need a platform that has that ultimate agility and again it can't be bound by anything. And this is something that, you know, Datera has as unique. This was why I like software defined and why I believe that this market's place is now for this space. Everything prior to SDS is basically what I call new legacy. You know, it doesn't matter whether it's a ray or it's hyperconversion, and they're great and they've got their place. But each one of them has this fixed boundary that allows you to flex but inside of its own control. Businesses aren't like that. They can't be done like that and applications can't be done like that now. So it's all multi-cloud, it's all going to be versed. >> Well let's build on that. So the Kubernetes describes, as you said, a cluster of compute. When you pull away the- It's really a network of compute. >> That's right. >> It's a network of compute resources that Kubernetes has visibility into so we can move resources >> That's right. >> Or move elements where they need to be to be optimally utilized. Let's build on that. So what where is Datera in this relationship between resources as it starts to build a an orchestrator, a manager, a network of data elements, and pull that into something that makes it easier for developers to do what they need to do, operators to do what they need to do, and the business to do what it needs to do? >> Yeah, so you can call Kubernetes the network of compute or a swarm of compute, right? So the power of Kubernetes is that it abstracts the infrastructure to a level where it gets delivered continuously to the application on demand. We do exactly the same thing for data, for the ability to store, manage, and ultimately life cycle data. So simply label based, like Kubernetes is, you specify the service level objectives for every individual application, and Kubernetes pretty much does all the rest of the job, completely independent of the hardware underneath. Again, we do that for data. You have certain access requirements, protocols, authentications, security. You have certain performance requirements. You have certain reliability requirements. You articulate them simply in similar SLO, service level objectives. Datera does all the actual implementation automatically across the data center. So now you get to a point where in the modern data center and the soft defined data center, I would argue we are the data foundation in those kinds of scenarios, we can co-orchestrate data along, since you said Kubernetes specifically with Kubernetes, with its compute. Obviously we work in other environments as well. We work equally well for Enver. We work for some other, a number of other cloud orchestration frameworks. But Kubernetes is a really good example here. >> So who's going to buy it? I mean cause going back to this issue of the orchestrator, the developers clearly need this because they want access to real data, but they typically don't think in terms of underlying data structures. If it's available that's all they care about. Data administrators, business people. Who do you find your customers today are really making that, not the initial contact, but actually driving the adoption of this new data fabric? >> So Marc, I mean I know you'll answer it more accurately than I will. But just from a higher level to step down, there seems to be two types of people inside of large companies. One is a project owner. So for instance, you know, I've been blessed with a job inside of BMW that I have to do, autonomic cars. And I'm tying together a very complicated pipeline that has to be extremely agile. So that's the type of person that would basically look to buy and move us forward. And the other one is an internal service provider to the enterprise. So in other words, instead of being a group that has a physical job, what I'm actually doing is I'm saying I'm now going to be a service provider, or a cloud provider, or a resource provider to an organization that now has complexity that's moving into and embracing the digital economy or digital transformation. So if those are the two types of person inside of an organization, I think if you get a tie kicker, you know, there are places that we struggle with, I think it would be fair to say, is there's always going to be a geek somewhere that wants to kick the latest, cool technology, so we get involved with that. And then by the time you go all the way through it, there's no project there. They just really enjoyed themselves and so have we. But in essence there's enough people now who recognize my business is going through this transformation, I need to get out of my technical debt, I'm throwing business into, you know, this economy. It's normally around machine learning applications, Kubernetes, things that are fast moving, you know. And they need that level of ility that they're used to getting through fixed bounded technology, you know. And so we're actually seeing that as a service provider, both external and internal. But internal, inside the enterprises, is something which we're very key on. >> And let me give you perhaps a few examples. We're looking at Fortune 2000 companies. A good example, for instance, would be one of the top airlines in the world that is replatforming from a more rigid siloed IT to really deliver all their applications to internal and external customers as a service. It would also be digital businesses where there currency really is speed, agility, and obviously data is their currency. So if you're looking here at one of the top travel fare aggregators, that's one of the customers, actually interestingly we are in their tier zero at Storch. That's quite an endorsement of the performance aspect. We are also in one of, I would say, the leading service providers outside of the typical crowd you think, those are one of the up and coming guys. So those are typical markets and customers we're looking at. Really Fortune 2000 companies that are replatforming to cloud, hybrid cloud, and digital service businesses. Digital businesses. >> But it is most people who are basically going from, they're transforming their data center into a metadata center. They're embracing the distribution and then cloud. But they're not going wholesale and just saying (claps hands) we're over. They have this practicality of first thing I need to do is to free up my data, make my data center agile, and then decide how I want to distribute it across. >> Marc Fleischmann. Guy Churchward. Datera. Thank you very much for being on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much Peter. >> A pleasure. Thank you. >> And once again, this is Peter Burris from our CUBE studios in Palo Alto, California. Thanks very much for participating in this CUBE conversation with Datera. (orchestral music plays)

(inspirational music) >> Hello, I'm Peter Burris of Wikibon. Welcome to another Cube Conversation. We're going to have a great time talking over the next few minutes about the role that performance in the data plain is going to play at making possible both the options provided by the Cloud, but at the same time in a way that actually allows us to actually run the applications at the speed and the scale the business requires. To do that, we've got Marc Fleishman, who's the CEO and founder of Datera, and Marc Churchward who's the Executive Chairman at Datera. Welcome back to theCube, guys. >> Thank you for having us, Peter. >> So, Marc, I want to start with what I started with. That at the end of the day we've got this enormous agility that we're provided with in the CloudStack, but you still have to run on real computers that have real constraints and everybody knows that there is no greater constraint than maintaining the state of data and moving data. So how does Datera address those issues? >> Part of data freedom obviously is not only about automation, the the promise of software-defined storage is seamless automation. But unfortunately in many cases with unimpressive performance. In our case, we've engineered the whole data path down to the physical devices, ourselves. The levels of performance we can deliver is millions of IOPS across the data center at less than two hundred microseconds latency. Most importantly, on standard servers, over standard protocols, so nothing fancy in terms of hardware required. That's the true promise of software-defined storage. >> Now you mentioned automation. That kind of performance has got to open up new classes of automation potential, so that the storage or the data resources are that much easier to envision, that much easier to apply, that much easier to exploit by the development community. Tell us a little bit about how automation plays into this. >> Absolutely, once you've made data delivery frictionless, and you've made data orchestration and data automation frictionless, you do unlock new classes of applications. What we're specifically seeing is folks who traditionally run an array of databases on very dedicated proprietary hardware, and then again they get the data trapped in those silos, and they have a real hard time to extract the value off that data, we see a lot of database farms coming on our unified platform across the data center, basically being able to really extract the value of the data across a range of applications. >> Now we've been in the last few years investing pretty heavily in storage area networks and arrays and those types of resources. Flash is changing that, but it sounds as though you guys are actually making it easier to bring servers into the mix of this. What's the real direction you see? Where's this resource going to be managed by and what's the opportunity? >> Ultimately the resource should be managed by the applications, it should be driven by the applications and managed by machine learning. So as we understand the requirements of the applications, every individual application, it should be managed by machine learning in terms of the physical resources on the servers. The server capabilities you put underneath it, and then obviously start rolling the server hardware, as technology improves as well over time. >> So it's really being driven by the server, that's where the market opportunity's coming from. >> That's right, yes. >> The last question I have here is, when we think about new technology, new classes of automation, new trends in the industry, people always immediately go, "Yeah, but new companies?" Where does Datera fit in its lifecycle as it works with customers and as it delivers value out? >> If you look at the market today, server-based storage is already larger than traditional array-based storage. It's growing at five X, year by year. Since we've been on theCUBE the last time, about two years ago, we are now looking at a 240% kegger every year, so the market has clearly come our way. This is the time for this kind of product. >> So the market's good, company's good, trends are good. As we think ultimately about where this ends up in a few years, what role will Datera play within the evolved computing industry? What do you see for it? >> Given that we have the broad data orchestration, enterprise performance and choice on hardware, we really do see ourselves as the data foundation for the software-defined data center. What I mean by that, again, just in an operational model, we are to data what Cooper Ladies is to compute, across a number of operating environments. So it's a really broad data foundation for everyone who wants to deliver ITS service. >> Guy, I have a very simple question for you, very complex answer. One of the places where this seems to be especially important, where the need is especially great, is in that world of analytics. Especially as we try to close the loop between the analytical systems and the operational systems. How does Datera and analytics come together, not just in the use of analytics to make Datera better, but Datera in making analytics applications run better. >> Yeah, and as you said, an easy question, complicated answer. In reality, what companies are trying to do is to run the analytics at the speed of which they're competing in their market space. Which means that it has to get a lot faster. Today's classic environment is an ETL with a data leak, so parking stale data and analyzing it, post-event and tomorrow, in an environment where people are using AI and ML is now in stream and it's in real time. So part of that is you actually have very very fast applications, both from a performance perspective, but also how long their lifecycle is. Because people are doing AB testing on the web, they're doing analytics on the fly, and it really is a kind of a different world. It's a different pace. When I started this business, or when I was in business early and I had hair, we used to look at organizations that had applications that were lasting 10 or 20 years. Now we're looking at enterprise applications that are up and down within a period of months, if not weeks. So managing that lifecycle and not having to invest in infrastructure to support something, that age-old adage of you don't buy an application if it's in 1.0 is gone. Because by the time you're into 1.1, that opportunity's disappeared as well. So, part of what I saw in the attraction with Datera is because it's absolutely software-defined, and all the resilience handles in the software not the hardware. There's not the infrastructure burden. It has much more agility to get up. It can provide tier zero, tier one. Again, you land and expand, so in test endeavor you have the same environment. By a matter of flipping a few switches, you can have tier-one-ilities and then you can drop down in that lifecycle. It doesn't matter whether it's on premise, whether it's a distributed environment or on Cloud. It's the same infrastructure, same architecture, so, back to what Marc said, you have data freedom. >> So we're trying to tie the physical realities of data, to the virtual realities of machine resources in IT, to the Cloud realities of the new wave of applications. >> That's exactly right. >> Marc Fleishman, CEO and founder of Datera, Guy Churchward, Executive Chairman of Datera, thanks very much for being on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us Peter. >> Thank you Peter. >> And once again, this is Peter Burris, Wikibon, thanks for watching theCUBE. (inspirational music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018, brought to you by Vmware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante and Dave and I are at VMworld and this is day three for us. Two sets, Dave, 94 interviews over Monday, Tuesday, today, excited to welcome back to theCUBE one of our distinguished alumni, Brian Carmody, CTO of INFINIDAT. Hey Brian, good to see you. >> Hey guys, how are ya? >> And we also have from US Signal, Marc Creviere, principal systems engineer, one of your customers. Marc, nice to have you on theCUBE. >> Thanks, great to be here. >> So day three, everyone has their voices, that's impressive. Lots of news, lots of buzz. I've heard that this is the biggest VMworld so far. I think we've heard upwards of 25,000? >> I think it's a little over 21, 22 maybe, yeah. >> More than last year. Brian, would love to get your take on VMworld, but let's start with the business overview. What's new at INFINIDAT? >> Oh, things are going great. So this past summer, or this summer, we surpassed four exobytes of customer deployments. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah, our customers just have an enormous amount of capacity deployed globally. In March, we launched our portfolio, so we announced four new products including our flagship F6212. It's our highest capacity, our fastest InfiniBox ever. It's on track to be the fastest selling model and it's specifically designed to handle the explosive growth that we're seeing from multi petabyte per rack requirements and it's all being driven by demand in the analytic space and also in the cloud and service provider spaces. >> What are some of the things that you're hearing here at VMworld, your customers' responses to some of the huge momentum that you just described? >> Right, I mean, what customers ask for is number one, they want us to kind of double down on the fundamentals, which is make the unit cost, the unit economics of storage, go down every quarter. The product has to get cheaper every quarter. The second is maintaining reliability levels, so all of our systems come with a seven nines SLAs with less than three seconds of down time per system per year. In service provider environments, that's incredibly important because their customers are entrusting them with their operations, but the biggest change that we're seeing over time is this nonlinear, insatiable growth for increases in capacity. When we brought InfiniBox to market in 2013, our largest configuration was a petabyte of capacity per rack. We now have configurations with 10 petabytes of effective capacity per rack and we have customers that are screaming at us, asking us to double and triple that density. If there's one thing that doesn't change from year to year, is that there's always an awesome vibe at VMware, and that demand for storing huge massive amounts of information only increases every year. >> It's a place for practitioners to gather, right? The great thing about VMworld is this event has been hardcore practitioners, IT folks, and they haven't lost that. Marc, let's turn it to you, I mean US Signal, what are you guys all about, what's your role there, and I really want to get into how you're using INFINIDAT technology. >> Absolutely, I'm a principal systems engineer in our cloud engineering department. US Signal is an IT services provider based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We've got a whole stack, we're network, co-location, data protection, infrastructure as a service, and disaster recovery, all as managed services. One thing that we're able to do, we actually have a fiber optic network that's about 14,000 route miles throughout the Midwest, so we're able to deliver a door to data center design, that's everything. As soon as that data leaves the customer premises, it never leaves our assets, which is a great thing we're able to deliver and we layer on top of that our data protection suites. We've had explosive growth in all these areas. That's one of the ways that INFINIDAT's really helped. We used to work in the challenges of managing hundreds of terabytes an hour on multi petabyte scale. Our infrastructure footprint has actually been doubling year over year, so it's matching what you're seeing as far as demand, I think we're matching that demand in our environment. It's not just data on an array, this is our customer's business, so we're really intensely focused on protecting that and delivering solutions and INFINIDAT's really helped us along that journey. >> We're going to get into that but the data center business is on fire. What do you see is the big growth drivers in your business? >> A lot of the drivers for us specifically is reduction of scope of PCI compliance and HIPPA compliance. Our entire offering is actually HIPPA and PCI compliant, so that's a big driver. We got a lot of traction in the financial and healthcare verticals. In organizations, you know, they've got initiative to get to the cloud. We're a very concierge level service. We help people get there whether it's into our cloud ideally or we even help people get to a hybrid approach, leveraging other partnerships as well. That's a big driver, and data protection. We're experts in disaster recovery and helping people not only have it in place but executing on the plan, testing the plan, because until you've tested it, you don't have a DR plan. >> You know Lisa, over the years I've had an opportunity to visit facilities of cloud service providers and I'd notice years ago, maybe it's even still this way in a lot of places, they had one of everything. They had a lot of diversity, a really heterogeneous environment, very hard to manage, a lot of stove pipes and so I'm interested in what led you to INFINIDAT. You got big platform, we just heard earlier that it can both do primary storage and data protection with the same fundamental architecture, so what was it about INFINIDAT that attracted you? Give us the before and after, if you would. >> Yeah, we'd made a pretty significant investment in another vendor's technology, and part of our role is determining cost and lead time as customer projects come in. We had a couple initiatives, one, reduce cost of course, two, reduce the wait time between when that request comes in and figuring how much is it going to cost, how long is it going to take to get in. One of the strongest areas that INFINIDAT was able to solve for us in that is that it's a known cost, the capacity's there. It's gone from a lot of variables on that to have an order come in, and they'll ask when can this be provisioned and I'll shoot an email back saying it's there, send the bill. >> Very cloud-like sort of model in terms of your customer's consumption. What has that meant for your business? >> It's allowed us to be a lot more agile. It's allowed us to be more competitive as far as executing on time frames and cost, as I just said. The relationship with INFINIDAT, I mean, we work with a lot of vendors that tell us here's the product, here's how to use it, whereas INFINIDAT, we really have a good dialogue of here's how we'd like to use it, can we make that work, and being involved in their product pipeline and really, not only being able to provide input but getting feedback on that input and in many cases, seeing it turn into actual product features. >> Is it a common theme that you hear amongst customers? How have you taken the US Signal input? Maybe you can give us some perspective on that. >> I think one of the ways that a lot of the incumbents whose businesses are evaporating and are being disrupted, a lot of places where they got in trouble is they thought okay, we're the 800 pound gorillas so we're now going to kind of decide what's happening in the market and how things should be and dictated that kind of ivory tower model of product management down into their customers. It turns out that if you're paying attention, your customers are way smarter than anybody in your business, because they're closer to where the rubber meets the road. We have what I think is a very successful program, we call it Social Product Management, where guys like US Signal get involved very early in the product development process. We come to them with ideas, hey, this is something we're thinking about building or this is a way we're thinking about modifying our API, and we bring prototypes and we have the kind of relationship where we can iterate on things starting with ideas all the way through to general availability, and the end result is we end up being able to leapfrog the incumbents who have those kind of traditional waterfall ivory tower models of innovation, and they end up with these impedance mismatches, where you're not really building the things that customers need for their next big challenge. >> That's why we're all here, right? We hear that at every event, and you do too, it's all about customers, giving them choice. At the end of the day though, you have to be able to, sounds like, Brian, what you guys have at INFINIDAT, is the symbiotic relationship with your customers who are helping to significantly influence the product development because that's who, it's the US Signals of the world who need to be using this technology so you're not creating it in a vacuum. Sounds like a very highly collaborative environment that is allowing you, it sounds like, to leapfrog your competition. >> It is, it's highly collaborative and it's really hard, I'm not going to lie, because if you go and you ask 50 different customers how we should do something, you're going to get 50 different answers, and that's why you need a really strong product management team to kind of be able to tease out what customers want versus what customers need and oftentimes what they need, they don't know yet because it's a little bit ahead of the curve, and that's where the art of the product management comes into play. >> Marc, I've known Brian for a while. You've briefed me many times, we've done a lot of interviews together. I want to test something that Brian has convinced me of, but I want to hear it from the customer. >> Sounds like trouble. >> Think about INFINIDAT. I hear all the time, simplicity, cost effective, but yet faster than Flash and a variety of use cases with the same architecture. I can use the system for both primary and secondary storage, and then the innovations that come along through with software I can roll back to serial number 001. Every system is able to take advantage of that. All true, has that been your experience? >> Absolutely, yeah, delivers on every one of those. >> Any deviation from those things, I mean come on, tell us the truth. >> No, no, we beat em up. One thing that's interesting about the service provider space is we don't necessarily know or control what the workload is. We know just anecdotally that we've got SQL, we know anecdotally that we've got Oracle and SAP in our environment, and the system stands up to all of it. I mean, it outperforms the platform that we came from by multitudes of degree. As an example, we've got previous platform, multi day preparation for an upgrade. We do 40 minutes a piece and we're done. We're off the phone, it's amazingly simple as compared to other platforms we've worked with. >> These guys, you go on the floor here, there's a lot of buzz, there's a lot of hype. These guys aren't a hype company. I've talked to dozens of your customers and have very similar stories, so I kind of already knew what the answer was. Kind of boring, but consistent. But were you nervous about working with a supplier that probably a lot of folks in your organization hadn't heard of? How'd you get through that? >> That was definitely a challenge early on. We had some people in the department that were very set in the mindset, like they knew what they wanted before the project started, right? Just rigorous testing and vetting and looking at the pedigree of Moshe, the founder of the company. There was a lot of trust put in what he's been able to do and seeing those progressions and yeah, it was a little bit of a leap of faith and we're absolutely glad we did it because it's been nothing but huge payoff. >> Yeah, guy who invented the modern storage business, I guess that helps, alright, good. >> Well Brian, you can't have anything more validating than the voice of a successful customer, so Marc, thanks so much for sharing what you're doing with INFINIDAT. Brian, thanks for stopping by and giving us an update. Sounds like we're going to be hearing some more great things coming from both of you guys in the near future. >> Thanks so much for having us. >> Thanks guys, thank you. >> Bye. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante, we are at VMworld 2018, day three, stick around. We'll be back after a break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamOn 2018. Brought to you by VeeamOn. >> We're back. VeeamOn 2018. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, where we go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. Dave Vellante, with my co-host Stu Miniman and Marc Crespi is here. He's the Vice President of Sales Engineering at ExaGrid, another Mass boy. Welcome back to theCUBE. Good to see you again, Marc. >> Thanks, great to be with you guys again. Great to be on another fantastic VeeamOn in the world-class city of Chicago. >> Yeah, it's a great city. What's happening at VeeamOn for ExaGrid this year? >> Quite a few executive meetings, a lot of customer contact, existing customers, prospective customers, meeting with the joint sales teams and so on. We coordinate a lot with VeeamOn in the field and on an engineering level, so great to get off the phone and see each other face to face and really deepen the relationship. >> So, talk a little bit about what the conversation is like with customers, particularly as it relates to data protection. We're hearing a lot on cloud, multi-cloud, intelligent data management. What does that all mean to your customers? >> Sure. So, obviously VeeamOn provides a wealth of different functionality in all of those areas, whether it be the intelligent data management, which includes cloud components, et cetera. We at ExaGrid play a role, mostly on the on-premise side, to be honest, of the equation. And because we typically deal with a quite large customers, the use of the cloud is really, typically relegated for older, more archive oriented data, or long-term retention backup data than it is for primary data, or even primary copy for disaster recovery simply because of the logistics of managing that much data when you may need it. However, the cloud plays a very important role in those types of customers, as many of them have regulatory requirements, compliance requirements to keep data long-term that they may never need to access, or never need to touch. In which case tiering that out to the cloud is a potentially good strategy. >> Marc, one of the things we're watching at this show is how VeeamOn's trying to get deeper and broader into the enterprise. If you can, give us a little color as to how you're seeing, where is VeeamOn being successful, what are customers liking for that kind of solution? >> Sure. We're seeing a significant amount of traction with VeeamOn and enterprise customers. In fact, we met with a large travel agency out here at the show who's looking at both VeeamOn and ExaGrid as a combined solution. So we're working very closely. VeeamOn has a dedicated enterprise team in the field, and they're breaking down doors to a number of the different enterprises. And our solution, the way it scales and its performance profile is very well-suited to the enterprise. We are an enterprise-class company as well, so we're doing cross-introductions for each other and to each other's enterprise customer base as we go. >> Talk a little bit more about your solution, where the sweet spot is. We always talk about horses for courses on theCUBE. >> Marc: Sure. Yeah. >> What's your favorite course? >> So, we define a target customer, the first demographic that we use is typically the amount of data they have under management. Put another way, the amount of primary data they have, or the utilization on their primary storage. And where we typically live, these days is 50 terabyte is kind of the low end, all the way up to multiple petabytes of data being backed up. And we can store many, many weeks, or months, or years of that data because of the data deduplication impact. But that's our sweet spot. And typically that's the most key demographic for us to look at, is how much data they're managing. >> And you're an infrastructure provider, obviously. You have software, but you don't do backup software. That's not your specialty, right? >> That's correct. That's one of the reasons we have such a close relationship with VeeamOn. And, quite honestly, we partner with a number of folks, but VeeamOn is clearly one of our key, if not our key partner because they provide the data protection functionality, the management, et cetera, and we provide the intelligent hyperconverged secondary storage that can store all of that data, deduplicate it, replicate it, and also provide, uniquely, I might add; support for some of VeeamOn's really critical features, like Instant VM Recovery and Virtual Lab and SureBackup. Because of the way our product is architected those features work extremely well with us, where in some cases, in some solutions they don't quite work as well. >> I think back to a number of years ago deduplication was all the talk in the storage industry. How are the latest trends in everything from Flash's adoption, NVMe, and NVMe over fabric coming soon, how's that going to impact what customers are doing in your space? >> Sure, so first I'll tackle the deduplication part of it. There's no question that it's now become an accepted norm. It's rare these days that you're explaining what it is, or what it does. But there still is one left over misconception that I think it's really important for all of us who have deduplication to educate customers. And that is that not every type of deduplication is created equal. Sometimes people conflate it with compression. You know, all compression's kind of the same to a certain extent. The way deduplication is implemented, there are certain characteristics that will either increase the amount of data reduction you get or lessen the amount of data reduction you get. For customers it's really important to know what type of algorithm you're dealing with 'cause that's going to translate to cost over the long term. So that's the first thing. The other trends, the adoption of Flash and so on, really has been more on the primary storage side, where that level of performance is required for high transaction, high performance requiring applications and so on. Because Flash remains quite a bit more expensive than spinning disc is, it's inroads into backup or secondary storage have been somewhat more on a limited basis. >> So, if I understand you correctly, a large part of the data reduction is a function of the algorithm... I don't want to say not so much the workload, but I was always under the impression that the workload determined the sort of data reduction efficacy. >> Marc: Sure. >> Which I'm sure is true, but you're saying the algorithm also has a huge impact. >> It's a combination. So, there's no question that certain data types deduplicate extremely well, other types not as well, and some not at all. You know, pre-compressed, pre-encrypted data tends not to deduplicate well at all. Where the algorithm comes in is there's a couple of elements, not to get to get too much in the weeds, but something called block size, which is basically the size of the objects that you examine when you deduplicate, and then whether or not you do what's called variable-length analysis, which is adjusting to the fact that the data is expanding and shrinking as it's changing. Algorithm's that implement very large block sizes and avoid variable-length technology are going to get much lower deduplication ratios than algorithms that implement both of those elements, smaller object sizes, and variable-length technology. And we're in the latter category of the more aggressive form of deduplication. >> So, you've got greater granularity and the greater ability to drive data reduction ratios, assuming the workload is favorable to that. >> Exactly right. If you were to compare the same workload across the two algorithms, the less aggressive and the more aggressive, the more aggressive is going to do better on that workload than the less aggressive. >> And again, I know it depends on the workload, but are we talking about on a percentage basis 10% better, 20%, 50%, a 100%? >> Marc: Multiples better. Some cases five to 10 times better. >> Even an order of magnitude in some cases. >> Marc: An order of magnitude better, yes, in some cases. >> What about encryption? What's the state of encryption these days? What are you advising customers with regard to encryption? >> Well, for years we've been under the impression that everything's going to have to be encrypted at some point. It's been a slow journey. You know, there's PCI compliance, HIPPA compliance. Obviously, there's been some pretty infamous hacks that have happened and so on. So the way we look at encryption, we have encryption solutions, self-encrypting appliances, and we recommend to customers, even if you don't need encryption today, if there is a slight chance that you'll need it in the future, then go with our encrypting line of appliances. The cost difference is nominal. It's in single-digit, low single-digit percentages, and it's there when you need it. So you don't have to potentially swap after that. We also do encryption any time we move data over the LAN. So we're fully ready for all of these compliances. It's certified encryption, you know, federal level certification, et cetera, so-- >> Yeah, Marc, let us know what companies aren't aware of the need for encryption and I'm going to short those stocks. (laughing) >> Okay, you got it. Yeah, you might want to change your bank. >> All right. Got to ask you. Brady, if you were Robert Kraft, would you have traded Tom Brady? >> Absolutely not. >> That's unanimous, there. Three for three on that. >> Absolutely, no. >> Okay, why not? What would the rationale be? >> I think he's got a lot more to give yet. I think it would have been on par with the Babe Ruth trade. It would have been a historical disaster. You know, he got us to the Super Bowl last year. Granted, Philly inched us out, but I still think he's the GOAT and he's going to stay the GOAT. >> Giselle said Tom Brady can't catch the ball. I would say also, he can't play defense, so-- >> I would agree with that as well. >> All right, what about Garoppolo? Do you think it was the right move to hold onto him, essentially as an insurance policy in case Brady went down before the trade deadline, or should they have been more proactive and gotten more for him? >> I think it probably would have been the right move for the Patriots to hang on to Garoppolo, however, for Garoppolo himself, and for the fact that they needed to get at least something for him, I think it was the right move at the right time. He needs to play. He's a great quarterback. He's already turning that San Francisco franchise around. >> Right. >> So I'm happy to see him play. I actually now start watching 49ers games 'cause I want to root for him. >> Me, too. I'm a fan of Garoppolo. >> Marc: He's a son of the Patriots. >> I agree. I think it was the smart move, Stu to keep him as an insurance policy, just in case. You don't know. I mean, Brady, you know, 40 plus years old. I mean, look what happened last year. >> It's the economics, Dave, though. They weren't going to pay him what he needed to be able to be a backup, and I agree with Marc. He was ready to play, obviously and it is fun to watch him on the 49ers. >> No, we agree. One of 'em had to go, right? Okay, and now we're three for three. So Peter McKay, Patrick Osborne, and now Marc Crespi all say Brady should stay. Right move. We'll see. Hey, they're the favorite to win the Super Bowl next year. Hopefully, they can get there. >> Sounds like I'm in good company. >> Marc, thanks very much for coming back on theCUBE. >> Thank you. It's always a pleasure to see you guys. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE, from VeeamOn 2018. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's theCube, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to The Cube's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge18, I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost, Dave Vellente. The biggest conference of ServiceNow, 18,000 people here at the Venetian. We're joined now by Marc Talluto, he is the DXC Fruition Global Practice Lead at DXC. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me, appreciate it. >> So let's start out by telling our viewers a little bit about what you do in your role within the organization. >> Sure, you know, just a brief history, so I was one of the co-founders and CEO of Fruition Partners. So we were acquired by CSC, now DXC, about almost three years ago and within DXC, you know, DXC made a very conscious decision to use ServiceNow as kind of a pivot point to digital transformations for the customers. So by acquiring Fruition and then further investments, so we've done acquisitions in Australia, mainland Europe, the Netherlands, we've really consolidated a lot of the best regional partners inside one DXC Fruition practice. So within this practice, that's where we do a lot of our transformation work with customers that are starting or continuing their ServiceNow journey. >> Marc you and I met in the early part of this decade when this show was a lot smaller and it was, you know, well under, maybe around 5,000, probably even a little bit smaller than that. And it was companies like Fruition that got in early. You didn't see the CSC/DXCs and the other big systems integrators and this thing has just exploded. What's your perspective on the last five, six years? >> Oh boy, well I will say a lot of this is driven, a lot of the growth, not just from ServiceNow but from the GSIs, the global system integrators, that really see ServiceNow, how it can really be applied to their customer base. And so in the last five years you went from people that were interested but really didn't understand what it could mean, 'cause you know, if it's perceived only as a ticketing tool it's like, oh, that's not important. But as it's now seen as a, really a service manager platform, that getting in and servicing IT is just a way to go help HR, to go help suck ups, all these other venues. So what we're seeing is really an explosion of the GSI community here trying to do acquisitions like we've done. So there's been about, in the last five years, 17 different acquisitions of all those regional players into those various global SIs. But then those global SIs themselves, as we've seen on some of the presentations here, I and DXC ourselves, we're now using ServiceNow internally as a way to automate a lot of our internal processes. Used to be what we called Customer Zero or the Lighthouse Account is now the GSI themselves. So I think they've really embraced the message we've been kind of saying all along, which is, yes it's good for IT, but it's really good for how you operate all your shared services' businesses. So that's been, and it's been just accelerating every year. >> Yeah, remind me, so when you started Fruition did you start with ServiceNow or did you have, had you had experience with other platforms before that? >> Yeah, so we actually started in 2003, so about five years before we ever met ServiceNow. >> Dave: There was no ServiceNow, really. >> No, yeah, so we were used to using the remedies of the world, I mean, the other kind of various tools that were out there. But we also weren't a system integrator when we started. We were an, it's funny 'cause you hear the messaging now, organizational change is more important, customer success is more important. Those are really the roots of our company. We were like, listen, the process needs to be better. You know, we're pouring in to governance and all these things, we could use Remedy, we could use other tools but we need to really figure out why people are choosing to engage to do service management or they just kind of go off and do their own thing. So for those five years that's all we did was talk to organizations about crawl, walk, run. How are you maturing from fragmented service offerings, fragmented support, to really kind of being able to centralize those operations and then extend outside of IT? And when we met ServiceNow it was like, it's like they were telling us what we've been telling customers for years so I was like, that's great. >> The lack of a tool, a platform, that really does what ServiceNow does, in a way it might've been a tailwind for your business 'cause complexity, but on the other hand you had to respond and you jumped on it early. I mean I would think a lot of SIs might've said, oh no, that takes complexity out, complexity is cash for us. You guys had a different philosophy, you said were going to get in early, talk about that journey, that position. >> True, well you know when we first met ServiceNow, like I said, 2008 when they were about 40 people total, you know, their entire company. And I think we were 10. So we were almost, you know, similar sizes. But you know what we were able to provide ServiceNow was explaining the customer journey. That the technology was very important, it was very lightweight and nimble but that customer journey, that customer needed to understand, what should I do first, what should I do next? What should my one year, two year, three year look like? And that's something that we've always kind of held, that we saw ServiceNow also as being this platform. We believed in the Glidefast story which was ServiceNow before ServiceNow, maybe we were one of the first ones to say, there's IT service managers, let's just talk about cloud service management, enterprise service management. So I feel like their story and our story, we've kind of been maturing together as we've seen customers really adopt the platform. And some of the great case studies that we've seen over the years, those have been our customers that we've helped encourage to say, what's the difference between an asset that's in IT and an asset that's in manufacturing, right? These are the same disciplines so let's help them go out there and do that. So it's been, it's obviously been a tidal wave of work. It's been very interesting expanding globally and you know, this is just a result of a lot of hard work on everybody's part. >> We're sort of, at this conference we're hearing that this is a real moment in time, when you were describing talking to companies, trying to understand those who were sort of happy to operate in this fragmented way versus those that were truly committed to a technological change and bringing things together. Is that true in your mind, that there really is a recognition on the part of companies and employers? This is, we need to get better at this. >> You know what we're hearing? We're hearing from very large enterprises, some of them and even Aerospace and Defense that are like, we have to recruit younger talent. They do have aging populations that'll be exiting their workforce. I see this from universities that recruit, obviously students, but it's then the workforce. The expectation is now so much higher that their experience with IT inside their employer is much closer to their experience as a consumer. We've been saying it for years but now it's really become a business imperative as customers, I should say as our customers, they are trying to make their workforce happier. Well not only just more productive, more engaged, but also, you know, retention. It's, I feel like it's the moment of the worker themselves. And look at other economic factors, unemployment's at a historic low. Finding people, you're competing for your own workforce to come work for you. They can't show up and you give them a Windows 95 machine or like an Office 2001 product suite, they're like, that's a reflection of how you as a company actually operate so all of those are kind of coming together in to this consumer like experience for the employees of our customers. >> And a lot of talk about new ways to work, the future of work. So what's your expectation going forward for how that affects business, affects your business, organizations? Sounds like they're closing the gap between consumer experiences and enterprise experiences, what's next? >> So you know, big word, friction, been frictionless. Right, like where's the efficiency, what is the friction in different departments working together? I think as people really do adopt this, call it the service manager platform, that system of engagement, once those silos start to come down, once they start to share that data, we see it in individual customers, they kind of go through this aha moment. They've cleaned up their data sources, they realize everything's on one platform, and then they're like, can't I build this, can't I build that, can't I build that? Yeah, you can, and it really starts to accelerate. So I think we'll see the barriers of these business units really fall, I think IT's role is going to shift to be almost a, we talk about a service management office not a project management office. So the service management office is, how well are all of my services, whether it's HR, whether it's finance, how are those services being consumed by my employees? So I think we'll see that pivot, it gets away from IT being more T, the technology, and more to the I. Like what information and services am I providing? I think really we are at that catalyst and as people start to adopt that it moves much more quickly from here. >> What's next, what is, going forward what do you see as the DXC ServiceNow strategy? >> Boy, so this is something that we've been working, so DXC's only been in existence for one year, right? But it came from HBES, it came from CSC, right, 26 billion dollar company, 180,000 people. DXC is putting all of their investment strategy around digital transformation, behind ServiceNow. So we have another team here that focuses completely on building ServiceNow offerings that are behind all the other DXC offerings. So what do I mean by that? The difference is whereas Fruition will go up to a customer and say, we'll help you do ServiceNow work, the platform DXC team says, we want to deliver cloud orchestration, we want to deliver desktop and mobility workforce call centers, but all of those are powered by ServiceNow at the back end, all of our analytics so we do a lot of other things as DXC, obviously billions of dollars worth but we're switching that all to be standardized on ServiceNow. So we're actually breaking down the silos in our own company of how our different departments work together. So if a customer buys a cloud orchestration platform and they're also a workplace and mobility customer and they also have maybe the HR BPO, that's all on ServiceNow. The DXC platform, DXC, built on ServiceNow. So that's everything DXC's throwing at it is to be that player. >> And do you see ServiceNow, is that the platform of platforms? >> Marc: Yes. >> And I mean, you guys really are a technology agnostic. But if it fits you'll use it. >> Well we're an independence offer provider. We don't create our own products like an IBM might or somebody else might and basically put those products in front of a customer when they're really not the right fit. >> So, I mean, you think we had John Donaho on early and he said, look, there's WorkDay and there's SalesForce and there's SAP, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We want to be the connective tissue to those platforms. Software companies are funny though, they all want to be the connective tissue. But if this is what ServiceNow does, so, do you feel like they are in a unique position to be that platform of platforms and-- >> I really do, and we've worked with a lot of other software companies that want to connect in to that ServiceNow ecosystem because what we find is other software products are like, listen, I might be really good at security, intrusion detection, but do I want to create a work flow? And I want to create the CMDB, that means that I have to go build an entire almost secondary product to my core competency. So if I'm really good at anti virus, if I'm really good at intrusion detection, even if I'm really good at reporting I still need people to act on the information I'm providing them. But I don't want to build that action engine, so that's what they're almost setting up their own boundary, saying let ServiceNow be the action engine for me and we'll just plug in to them. They're becoming the standard for how customers work between silos. >> Great, well Marc, thank you so much for coming on the show, this has been really fun talking to you. >> It's my pleasure, thank you, great to see you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, we will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge18 just after this. (upbeat techno music)