(upbeat music playing) >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Couchbase ConnectONLINE Mary Roth, VP of Engineering Operations with Couchbase is here for Couchbase ConnectONLINE. Mary. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on remotely for this segment. >> Thank you very much. It's great to be here. >> Love the fire in the background, a little fireside chat here, kind of happening, but I want to get into it because, Engineering and Operations with the pandemic has really kind of shown that, engineers and developers have been good, working remotely for a while, but for the most part it's impacted companies in general, across the organizations. How did the Couchbase engineering team adapt to the remote work? >> Great question. And I actually think the Couchbase team responded very well to this new model of working imposed by the pandemic. And I have a unique perspective on the Couchbase journey. I joined in February, 2020 after 20 plus years at IBM, which had embraced a hybrid, in-office remote work model many years earlier. So in my IBM career, I live four minutes away from my research lab in Almaden Valley, but IBM is a global company with headquarters on the East Coast, and so throughout my career, I often found myself on phone calls with people around the globe at 5:00 AM in the morning, I quickly learned and quickly adapted to a hybrid model. I'd go into the office to collaborate and have in-person meetings when needed. But if I was on the phone at 5:00 AM in the morning, I didn't feel the need to get up at 4:30 AM to go in. I just worked from home and I discovered I could be more productive there, doing think time work, and I really only needed the in-person time for collaboration. This hybrid model allowed me to have a great career at IBM and raise my two daughters at the same time. So when I joined Couchbase, I joined a company that was all about being in-person and instead of a four minute commute, it was going to be an hour or more commute for me each way. This was going to be a really big transition for me, but I was excited enough by Couchbase and what it offered, that I decided to give it a try. Well, that was February, 2020. I showed up early in the morning on March 10th, 2020 for an early morning meeting in-person only to learn that I was one of the only few people that didn't get the memo. We were switching to a remote working model. And so over the last year, I have had the ability to watch Couchbase and other companies pivot to make this remote working model possible and not only possible, but effective. And I'm really happy to see the results. A remote work model does have its challenges, that's for sure, but it also has its benefits, better work-life balance and more time to interact with family members during the day and more quiet time just to think. We just did a retrospective on a major product release, Couchbase server 7.0, that we did over the past 18 months. And one of the major insights by the leadership team is that working from home actually made people more effective. I don't think a full remote model is the right approach going forward, but a hybrid model that IBM adopted many years ago and that I was able to participate in for most of my career, I believe is a healthier and more productive approach. >> Well, great story. I love the come back and now you take leverage of all the best practices from the IBM days, but how did they, your team and the Couchbase engineering team react? And were there any best practices or key learnings that you guys pulled out of that? >> The initial reaction was not good. I mean, as I mentioned, it was a culture based on in-person, people had to be in in-person meetings. So it took a while to get used to it, but there was a forcing function, right? We had to work remotely. That was the only option. And so people made it work. I think the advancement of virtual meeting technology really helps a lot. Over earlier days in my career where I had just bad phone connections, that was very difficult. But with the virtual meetings that you have, where you can actually see people and interact, I think is really quite helpful. And probably the key. >> What's the DNA of the company there? I mean, every company's got the DNA, Intel's Moore's Law, and what's the engineering culture at Couchbase like, if you could describe it. >> The engineering culture at Couchbase is very familiar to me. We are at our heart, a database company, and I grew up in the database world, which has a very unique culture based on two values, merit and mentorship. And we also focus on something that I like to call growing the next generation. Now database technology started in the late sixties, early seventies, with a few key players and institutions. These key players were extremely bright and they tackled and solved really hard problems with elegant solutions, long before anybody knew they were going to be necessary. Now, those original key players, people like Jim Gray, Bruce Lindsay, Don Chamberlin, Pat Selinger, David Dewitt, Michael Stonebraker. They just love solving hard problems. And they wanted to share that elegance with a new generation. And so they really focused on growing the next generation of leaders, which became the Mike Carey's and the Mohan's and the Lagerhaus's of the world. And that culture grew over multiple generations with the previous generation cultivating, challenging, and advocating for the next, I was really lucky to grow up in that culture. And I've advanced my career as a result, as being part of it. The reason I joined Couchbase is because I see that culture alive and well here. Our two fundamental values on the engineering side, are merit and mentorship. >> One of the things I want to get your thoughts on, on the database questions. I remember, back in the old glory days, you mentioned some of those luminaries, you know, there wasn't many database geeks out there, there was kind of a small community, now, as databases are everywhere. So you see, there's no one database that has rule in the world, but you starting to see a pattern of database, kinds of things are emerging, more databases than ever before, they are on the internet, they are on the cloud, there are none the edge. It's essentially, we're living in a large distributed computing environment. So now it's cool to be in databases because they're everywhere. (laughing) So, I mean, this is kind of where we are at. What's your reaction to that? >> You're absolutely right. There used to be a few small vendors and a few key technologies and it's grown over the years, but the fundamental problems are the same, data integrity, performance and scalability in the face of distributed systems. Those were all the hard problems that those key leaders solved back in the sixties and seventies. They're not new problems. They're still there. And they did a lot of the fundamental work that you can apply and reapply in different scenarios and situations. >> That's pretty exciting. I love that. I love the different architectures that are emerging and allows for more creativity for application developers. And this becomes like the key thing we're seeing right now, driving the business and a big conversation here at the, at the event is the powering of these modern applications that need low latency. There's no more, not many spinning disks anymore. It's all in RAM, all these kinds of different memory, you got centralization, you got all kinds of new constructs. How do you make sense of it all? How do you talk to customers? What's the main core thing happening right now? If you had to describe it. >> Yeah, it depends on the type of customer you're talking to. We have focused primarily on the enterprise market and in that market, there are really fundamental issues. Information for these enterprises is key. It's their core asset that they have and they understand very well that they need to protect it and make it available more quickly. I started as a DBA at Morgan Stanley, back, right out of college. And at the time I think it was, it probably still is, but at the time it was the best run IT shop that I'd ever seen in my life. The fundamental problems that we had to solve to get information from one stock exchange to another, to get it to the SEC are the same problems that we're solving today. Back then we were working on mainframes and over high-speed Datacom links. Today, it's the same kind of problem. It's just the underlying infrastructure has changed. >> Yeah, the key, there has been a big supporter of women in tech. We've done thousands of interviews and why I got you. I want to ask you if you don't mind, career advice that you give women who are starting out in the field of engineering, computer science. What do you wish you knew when you started your career? And if you could be that person now, what would you say? >> Yeah, well, a lot of things I wish I knew then that I know now, but I think there are two key aspects to a successful career in engineering. I actually got started as a math major and the reason I became a math major is a little convoluted. As a girl, I was told we were bad at math. And so for some reason I decided that I had to major in it. That's actually how I got my start, but I've had a great career. And I think there are really two key aspects. First, is that it is a discipline in which respect is gained through merit. As I had mentioned earlier, engineers are notoriously detail-oriented and most are, perfectionists. They love elegant, well thought-out solutions and give respect when they see one. So understanding this can be a very important advantage if you're always prepared and you always bring your A-game to every debate, every presentation, every conversation, you have build up respect among your team, simply through merit. While that may mean that you need to be prepared to defend every point early on, say, in your graduate career or when you're starting, over time others will learn to trust your judgment and begin to intuitively follow your lead just by reputation. The reverse is also true. If you don't bring your A-game and you don't come prepared to debate, you will quickly lose respect. And that's particularly true if you're a woman. So if you don't know your stuff, don't engage in the debate until you do. >> That's awesome advice. >> That's... >> All right, continue. >> Thank you. So my second piece of advice that I wish I could give my younger self is to understand the roles of leaders and influencers in your career and the importance of choosing and purposely working with each. I like to break it down into three types of influencers, managers, mentors, and advocates. So that first group are the people in your management chain. It's your first line manager, your director, your VP, et cetera. Their role in your career is to help you measure short-term success. And particularly with how that success aligns with their goals and the company's goals. But it's important to understand that they are not your mentors and they may not have a direct interest in your long-term career success. I like to think of them as, say, you're sixth grade math teacher. You know, you getting an A in the class and advancing to seventh grade. They own you for that. But whether you get that basketball scholarship to college or getting to Harvard or become a CEO, they have very little influence over that. So a mentor is someone who does have a shared interest in your long-term success, maybe by your relationship with him or her, or because by helping you shape your career and achieve your own success, you help advance their goals. Whether it be the company success or helping more women achieve leadership positions or getting more kids into college on a basketball scholarship, whatever it is, they have some long-term goal that aligns with helping you with your career. And they give great advice. But that mentor is not enough because they're often outside the sphere of influence in your current position. And while they can offer great advice and coaching, they may not be able to help you directly advance. That's the role of the third type of influencer. Somebody that I call an advocate. An advocate is someone that's in a position to directly influence your advancement and champion you and your capabilities to others. They are in influential positions and others place great value in their opinions. Advocates stay with you throughout your career, and they'll continue to support you and promote you wherever you are and wherever they are, whether that's the same organization or not. They're the ones who, when a leadership position opens up will say, I think Mary's the right person to take on that challenge, or we need to move in a new direction, I think Mary's the right person to lead that effort. Now advocates are the most important people to identify early on and often in your career. And they're often the most overlooked. People early on often pay too much attention and rely on their management chain for advancement. Managers change on a dime, but mentors and advocates are there for you for the long haul. And that's one of the unique things about the database culture. Those set of advocates were just there already because they had focused on building the next generation. So I consider, you know, Mike Carey as my father and Mike Stonebraker as my grandfather, and Jim Gray as my great-grandfather and they're always there to advocate for me. >> That's like a schema and a database. You got to have it all right there, kind of teed up. Beautiful. (laughing) Great advice. >> Exactly. >> Thank you for that. That was really a masterclass. And that's going to be great advice for folks, really trying to figure out how to play the cards they have and the situation, and to double down or move and find other opportunities. So great stuff there. I do have to ask you Mary, thanks for coming on the technical side and the product side. Couchbase Capella was launched in conjunction with the event. What is the bottom line for that as, as an Operations and Engineering, built the products and rolled it out. What's the main top line message for about that product? >> Yeah. Well, we're very excited about the release of Capella and what it brings to the table is that it's a fully managed and automated database cloud offering so that customers can focus on development and building and improving their applications and reducing the time to market without having to worry about the hard problems underneath, and the operational database management efforts that come with it. As I mentioned earlier, I started my career as a DBA and it was one of the most sought after and highly paid positions in IT because operating a database required so much work. So with Capella, what we're seeing is, taking that job away from me. I'm not going to be able to apply for a DBA tomorrow. >> That's great stuff. Well, great. Thanks for coming. I really appreciate it. Congratulations on the company and the public offering this past summer in July and thanks for that great commentary and insight on theCUBE here. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. Mary Roth, VP of Engineering Operations at Couchbase part of Couchbase ConnectONLINE. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music playing)

>>this session will be reviewing the power benefits of implementing a secure software supply chain and how we can gain a cloud like experience with flexibility, speed and security off modern software delivery. Hi, I'm Matt Bentley, and I run our technical pre sales team here. Um Iran. Tous I spent the last six years working with customers on their container ization journey. One thing almost every one of my customers is focused on how they can leverage the speed and agility benefits of contain arising their applications while continuing to apply the same security controls. One of the most important things to remember is that we are all doing this for one reason, and that is for our applications. So now let's take a look at how we could provide flexibility all layers of the stack from the infrastructure on up to the application layer. When building a secure supply chain for container focus platforms, I generally see two different mindsets in terms of where the responsibilities lie between the developers of the applications and the operations teams who run the middleware platforms. Most organizations are looking to build a secure yet robust service that fits the organization's goals around how modern applications are built and delivered. Yeah. First, let's take a look at the developer or application team approach. This approach follows Mawr of the Dev ops philosophy, where a developer and application teams are the owners of their applications. From the development through their life cycle, all the way to production. I would refer this more of a self service model of application, delivery and promotion when deployed to a container platform. This is fairly common organizations where full stack responsibilities have been delegated to the application teams, even in organizations were full stack ownership doesn't exist. I see the self service application deployment model work very well in lab development or non production environments. This allows teams to experiment with newer technologies, which is one of the most effective benefits of utilizing containers and other organizations. There's a strong separation between responsibilities for developers and I T operations. This is often do the complex nature of controlled processes related to the compliance and regulatory needs. Developers are responsible for their application development. This can either include doctorate the development layer or b'more traditional throw it over the wall approach to application development. There's also quite a common experience around building a center of excellence with this approach, where we can take container platforms and be delivered as a service to other consumers inside of the I T organization. This is fairly prescriptive, in the manner of which application teams would consume it. When examining the two approaches, there are pros and cons to each process. Controls and appliance are often seen as inhibitors to speak. Self service creation, starting with the infrastructure layer, leads to inconsistency, security and control concerns, which leads to compliance issues. While self service is great without visibility into the utilization and optimization of those environments, it continues the cycles of inefficient resource utilization and the true infrastructure is a code. Experience requires Dev ops related coding skills that teams often have in pockets but maybe aren't ingrained in the company culture. Luckily for us, there is a middle ground for all of this Doc Enterprise Container Cloud provides the foundation for the cloud like experience on any infrastructure without all of the out of the box security and controls that are professional services Team and your operations team spend their time designing and implementing. This removes much of the additional work and worry Run, ensuring that your clusters and experiences are consistent while maintaining the ideal self service model, no matter if it is a full stack ownership or easing the needs of I T operations. We're also bringing the most natural kubernetes experience today with winds to allow for multi cluster visibility that is both developer and operator friendly. Let's provides immediate feedback for the health of your applications. Observe ability for your clusters. Fast context, switching between environments and allowing you to choose the best in tool for the task at hand. Whether is three graphical user interface or command line interface driven. Combining the cloud like experience with the efficiencies of a secure supply chain that meet your needs brings you the best of both worlds. You get Dave off speed with all the security controls to meet the regulations your business lives by. We're talking about more frequent deployments. Faster time to recover from application issues and better code quality, as you can see from our clusters we have worked with were able to tie these processes back to real cost savings, riel efficiency and faster adoption. This all adds up to delivering business value to end users in the overall perceived value. Now let's look at see how we're able to actually build a secure supply chain. Help deliver these sorts of initiatives in our example. Secure Supply chain. We're utilizing doctor desktop to help with consistency of developer experience. Get hub for our source Control Jenkins for a C A C D. Tooling the doctor trusted registry for our secure container registry in the universal control playing to provide us with our secure container run time with kubernetes and swarm. Providing a consistent experience no matter where are clusters are deployed. You work with our teams of developers and operators to design a system that provides a fast, consistent and secure experience for my developers that works for any application. Brownfield or Greenfield monolith or micro service on boarding teams could be simplified with integrations into enterprise authentication services. Calls to get help repositories. Jenkins Access and Jobs, Universal Control Plan and Dr Trusted registry teams and organizations. Cooper down his name space with access control, creating doctor trusted registry named spaces with access control, image scanning and promotion policies. So now let's take a look and see what it looks like from the C I c D process, including Jenkins. So let's start with Dr Desktop from the doctor desktop standpoint, what should be utilizing visual studio code and Dr Desktop to provide a consistent developer experience. So no matter if we have one developer or 100 we're gonna be able to walk through the consistent process through docker container utilization at the development layer. Once we've made our changes to our code will be able to check those into our source code repository in this case, abusing Get up. Then, when Jenkins picks up, it will check out that code from our source code repository, build our doctor containers, test the application that will build the image, and then it will take the image and push it toward doctor trusted registry. From there, we can scan the image and then make sure it doesn't have any vulnerabilities. Then we consign them. So once we signed our images, we've deployed our application to Dev. We can actually test their application deployed in our real environment. Jenkins will then test the deployed application, and if all tests show that is good, will promote the r R Dr and Mr Production. So now let's look at the process, beginning from the developer interaction. First of all, let's take a look at our application as is deployed today. Here, we can see that we have a change that we want to make on our application. So marketing Team says we need to change containerized injure next to something more Miranda's branded. So let's take a look at visual studio coat, which will be using for I D to change our application. So here's our application. We have our code loaded, and we're gonna be able to use Dr Desktop on our local environment with our doctor desktop plug in for visual studio code to be able to build our application inside of doctor without needing to run any command line. Specific tools here is our code will be able to interact with docker, make our changes, see it >>live and be able to quickly see if our changes actually made the impact that we're expecting our application. Let's find our updated tiles for application and let's go and change that to our Miranda sized into next. Instead of containerized in genetics, so will change in the title and on the front page of the application, so that we save. That changed our application. We can actually take a look at our code here in V s code. >>And as simple as this, we can right click on the docker file and build our application. We give it a name for our Docker image and V s code will take care of the automatic building of our application. So now we have a docker image that has everything we need in our application inside of that image. So here we can actually just right click on the image tag that we just created and do run this winter, actively run the container for us and then what's our containers running? We could just right click and open it up in a browser. So here we can see the change to our application as it exists live. So once we can actually verify that our applications working as expected, weaken, stop our container. And then from here, we can actually make that change live by pushing it to our source code repository. So here we're going to go ahead and make a commit message to say that we updated to our Mantis branding. We will commit that change and then we'll push it to our source code repository again. In this case we're using get Hub to be able to use our source code repository. So here in V s code will have that pushed here to our source code repository. And then we'll move on to our next environment, which is Jenkins. Jenkins is gonna be picking up those changes for our application, and it checked it out from our source code repository. So get Hub Notifies Jenkins. That there is a change checks out. The code builds our doctor image using the doctor file. So we're getting a consistent experience between the local development environment on our desktop and then and Jenkins or actually building our application, doing our tests, pushing in toward doctor trusted registry, scanning it and signing our image. And our doctor trusted registry, then 2.4 development environment. >>So let's actually take a look at that development environment as it's been deployed. So here we can see that our title has been updated on our application so we can verify that looks good and development. If we jump back here to Jenkins, will see that Jenkins go >>ahead and runs our integration tests for a development environment. Everything worked as expected, so it promoted that image for production repository and our doctor trusted registry. Where then we're going to also sign that image. So we're signing that. Yes, we have signed off that has made it through our integration tests, and it's deployed to production. So here in Jenkins, we could take a look at our deployed production environment where our application is live in production. We've made a change automated and very secure manner. >>So now let's take a look at our doctor trusted registry where we can see our game Space for application are simple in genetics repository. From here we will be able to see information about our application image that we've pushed into the registry, such as Thean Midge signature when it was pushed by who and then we'll also be able to see the scan results of our image. In this case, we can actually see that there are vulnerabilities for our image and we'll actually take a look at that. Dr Trusted registry does binary level scanning, so we get detailed information about our individual image layers. From here, these image layers give us details about where the vulnerabilities were located and what those vulnerabilities actually are. So if we click on the vulnerability, we can see specific information about that vulnerability to give us details around the severity and more information about what, exactly is vulnerable inside of our container. One of the challenges that you often face around vulnerabilities is how, exactly we would remediate that and secure supply chain. So let's take a look at that and the example that we were looking at the vulnerability is actually in the base layer of our image. In order to pull in a new base layer of our image, we need to actually find the source of that and updated. One of the ways that we can help secure that is a part of the supply chain is to actually take a look at where we get our base layers of our images. Dr. Help really >>provides a great source of content to start from, but opening up docker help within your organization opens up all sorts of security concerns around the origins of that content. Not all images are made equal when it comes to the security of those images. The official images from Docker, However, curated by docker, open source projects and other vendors, one of the most important use cases is around how you get base images into your environment. It is much easier to consume the base operating system layer images than building your own and also trying to maintain them instead of just blindly trusting the content from doctor. How we could take a set >>of content that we find useful, such as those base image layers or content from vendors, and pull that into our own Dr trusted registry using our rearing feature. Once the images have been mirrored into a staging area of our DACA trusted registry, we can then scan them to ensure that the images meet our security requirements and then, based off the scan result, promote the image toe a public repository where we can actually sign the images and make them available to our internal consumers to meet their needs. This allows us to provide a set of curated content that we know a secure and controlled within our environment. So from here we confined our updated doctor image in our doctor trust registry, where we can see that the vulnerabilities have been resolved from a developers point of view, that's about a smooth process gets. Now let's take a look at how we could provide that secure content for developers and our own Dr Trusted registry. So in this case, we're taking a look at our Alpine image that we've mirrored into our doctor trusted registry. Here we're looking at the staging area where the images get temporarily pulled because we have to pull them in order to actually be able to scan them. So here we set up nearing and we can quickly turn it on by making active. Then we can see that our image mirroring will pull our content from Dr Hub and then make it available in our doctor trusted registry in an automatic fashion. So from here, we can actually take a look at the promotions to be able to see how exactly we promote our images. In this case, we created a promotion policy within docker trusted registry that makes it so. That content gets promoted to a public repository for internal users to consume based off of the vulnerabilities that are found or not found inside of the docker image. So are actually users. How they would consume this content is by taking a look at the public to them official images that we've made available here again, Looking at our Alpine image, we can take a look at the tags that exist. We could see that we have our content that has been made available, so we've pulled in all sorts of content from Dr Hub. In this case, we have even pulled in the multi architectural images, which we can scan due to the binary level nature of our scanning solution. Now let's take a look at Len's. Lens provides capabilities to be able to give developers a quick, opinionated view that focuses around how they would want to view, manage and inspect applications to point to a Cooper Days cluster. Lindsay integrates natively out of the box with universal control playing clam bundles so you're automatically generated. Tell certificates from UCP. Just work inside our organization. We want to give our developers the ability to see their applications and a very easy to view manner. So in this case, let's actually filter down to the application that we just deployed to our development environment. Here we can see the pot for application and we click on that. We get instant, detailed feedback about the components and information that this pot is utilizing. We can also see here in Linz that it gives us the ability to quickly switch context between different clusters that we have access to. With that, we also have capabilities to be able to quickly deploy other types of components. One of those is helm charts. Helm charts are a great way to package of applications, especially those that may be more complex to make it much simpler to be able to consume inversion our applications. In this case, let's take a look at the application that we just built and deployed. This case are simple in genetics. Application has been bundled up as a helm chart and has made available through lens here. We can just click on that description of our application to be able to see more information about the helm chart so we can publish whatever information may be relevant about our application, and through one click, we can install our helm chart here. It will show us the actual details of the home charts. So before we install it, we can actually look at those individual components. So in this case, we could see that's created ingress rule. And then it's well, tell kubernetes how to create the specific components of our application. We just have to pick a name space to to employ it, too. And in this case, we're actually going to do a quick test here because in this case, we're trying to deploy the application from Dr Hub in our universal Control plane. We've turned on Dr Content Trust Policy Enforcement. So this is actually gonna fail to deploy because we're trying to deploy application from Dr Hub. The image hasn't been properly signed in our environment. So the doctor can to trust policy enforcement prevents us from deploying our doctor image from Dr Hub. In this case, we have to go through our approved process through our secure supply chain to be able to ensure that we know our image came from, and that meets our quality standards. So if we comment out the doctor Hub repository and comment in our doctor trusted registry repository and click install, it will then install the helm chart with our doctor image being pulled from our GTR, which then has a proper signature, we can see that our application has been successfully deployed through our home chart releases view. From here, we can see that simple in genetics application, and in this case we'll get details around the actual deploy and help chart. The nice thing is that Linds provides us this capability here with home. To be able to see all the components that make up our application from this view is giving us that single pane of glass into that specific application so that we know all the components that is created inside of kubernetes. There are specific details that can help us access the applications, such as that ingress world that we just talked about gives us the details of that. But it also gives us the resource is such as the service, the deployment in ingress that has been created within kubernetes to be able to actually have the application exist. So to recap, we've covered how we can offer all the benefits of a cloud like experience and offer flexibility around dev ups and operations controlled processes through the use of a secure supply chain, allowing our developers to spend more time developing and our operators mawr time designing systems that meet our security and compliance concerns

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone. You are watching the cube and we are here in Seattle, Washington at Smartsheet engage 2019 I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Jeff Frick. We're joined by Mark Klein. He is the principal at populace. Thank you so much for coming on the show. My pleasure. Thank you. So you have a very cool job. Tell our viewers a little bit about populace and about what you do. Sure. So populace is actually an architect firm. Our main focuses architecture. We one of the largest sports architecture firms in the world. So we build stadiums and arenas and convention centers and airports and places that people gather is our bread and butter is over 500 worldwide employees that work on that. But we have an event office out of Denver, Colorado where we take our architectural principles and apply them to major gatherings of people in the sporting world and other areas. >>And these are sporting include the includes include the final four >> in the Olympics and all of your NFL major events that are not a regular season game. All of your inner NHL events that happen in stadiums outdoors, all star games, things like that. Any major event, it's a nonstandard event. They really call on us to help make sure that that goes off without a hitch. Yup. >> All right, so talk a little bit about what it was like before you believe what it was like before you use Smartsheet and entered the, the headaches and the problems and that and now what life is like now. Sure, >> so a little more than 10 years ago when I joined the firm, we had a good stable of events and events. We're still kind of just operating off spreadsheets and back in napkins and drawings and things like that as security and to nine 11 was actually a major factor in kind of the growth of our industry where events now had to be planned a little more with more scrutiny. >>We needed a way to better pull our information together and get everybody to to, to, to collaborate on one set of drawings, one schedule who's doing what and when. And Smartsheet has become that prime resource for all of our event planning >> and for in for an event, there's so many outside contractors that you guys have to orchestrate with, whether it be the teams and the associations and the security and the venue and the concessions. The list goes on transportation, on and on and on. So to be able to bring outsiders into your project, >> and that's a new set every year with every event. So you think of the final four, we're going to a new city every year. So EV, I have literally eight months to work with a team to plan a major event that's going to be seen by hundreds of millions of people. And then I've got to pick up and do it again in another city and then another. >>And we're doing that across dozens of events across our team every year. So we may have a vendor that touches the system once. We may have someone who sees us once every third year. So within our environment we have extremely high turnover of people. We have very short period to get them up to speed and working with us. So Smartsheet has been really, really a big part of Hey I need you to better get in here, get your information and work with the tool, get us the information and guess what, you're going to get some feedback on this one too. So it benefits them. >>Right. It's just interesting to me that the level of granularity and detail, you know, we get, we go to a lot of events, obviously there's so much minutia that you have to keep track of from printing on the napkins, you know, to signage, etc. But at the same time, especially in the sporting world, you know, there can be huge changes, you know, especially at the same plow who wins a game, changes the venue. Right? So how do you, how do you use a tool to manage the boat? The tremendous detail when you have the opportunity to plan versus the change of plan a we got to got to shift, >>he hears well so, so we use a lot of the tools that Smartsheet is has built into it for automation. So for example, at the final four, we don't know our teams until Sunday night and that that that Monday we have decor going up, team specific decor. So locker room assignments. As soon as the game is final we send out notifications in Smartsheet to the decor printers that you're printing this graphic, this size, these a locker room assignments, these are the bus assignments. So all of that is, is queued up and ready to go. Um, so a lot of those last minute things that you may think of, we've thought through them and are ready to trigger as many as we can. You're never 100%, but if we can get that 80% 90% triggered and out the door as soon as the decision is made or the team has decided that lets us deal with those others that are a little less planned. >>So, but those are ones where, you know, those are sort of the known unknowns. What about when you have the unknown unknowns, when things like bad weather can affect an event or, I mean, how do you, how do you use Smartsheet into change on a dime when that happened? >>So, um, we, we plan and we plan and we plan. So for example, bad weather is something we have multiple plans for. But where Smartsheet comes into play as I have real time scheduling information sitting on my screen in a control room at an event. So if we have a weather event, we have two or three options that we can pick from. But I'm now looking at the realtime Smartsheet schedule going, all right, if we select option one, be aware we're going to affect these items. If we go with option two, these are the items. So it's the information that has been gathered through that planning phase and everybody's put their information in. So I know what our action is going to cause and the ripple effects of those. >>And Lindsay, the smart, the choose your own adventures when you were a kid reading those, choose your own adventure, want to open >>a door and guess what's there. I want to open a door of a decision and know that this is the follow on effect and I can look at the schedule and the vendors involved of who I'm about to impact with my decision. Right. And do you have the car, you have the comms and all that stuff dialed in there as well? Correct. Yeah. So we're on radio and we're, you know, these, these events, we run control centers. So there's eight or nine of us sitting in a control room. I, I send Mark meter a picture every year of my Smartsheet screen with some field of play behind it, beautiful ball or basketball field and go smart. We're ready to go, keep it up, keep it running for the next few hours. So, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a fairly intense time. Um, when, when we opened doors or we turn on the cameras if those events, because let's face it, there's 70,000 people sitting there and there's usually three triple digit, a hundred millions of people watching on television. >>So it has to go right. That's a lot of pressure. Yes. How do you deal with it? How does your team deal with it? I mean you're used to it of course, but is there, uh, it's the confidence in the plan. I think that has really shaped how we get to that point and don't and don't overreact or get too caught up in the moment. So, um, what we do within the planning of, of our events and with our staff and is we put everybody's tasks in in Smartsheet of course. So my tunnel captain only has to focus on the 40 things that he or she is responsible for. So he may be standing at a team tunnel and we've extracted from the schedule are Austin, here are your 40 items. Don't worry about every, all the chaos going around you. Cause I've got 40 other people out working those items. >>So we filter schedules by either location or staff member so that they can put their blinders on and stay focused on their tasks. And that's really how people can focus and stay. Stay in the moment. What's coming next? What do I need to worry about? Cause there's 4,000 line items in that schedule. I can't have him trying to figure out what are his right at that moment. Mark, I would shift gears a little bit cause you guys came from an architectural bet, the company's architectural background and buildings, venues and stadiums. We just had the new chase. Then you just got finished in San Francisco. Beautiful new facility as the way you guys think about, it's kind of people centric. It's Vinnie's for people in its events for people. What are some of the kind of the guiding principles that make for a good event? A good venue from the people experience point of views. >>There's really multiple sets of customers that I look at at every venue. Obviously we always started the field of play. You gotta get that right? It's gotta be a hundred yards long. It's gotta be. And I thought they broke that rule the other day. We won't go there. Um, so feel to play out. So you've got your competitors, your spectators, and then your operators. All three of those. We focus on all of them equally because if one piece of that triad doesn't work, then the overall experience doesn't work. So obviously the field of play honestly is the easiest part to deal with. But it's an important part. So you look at how a team is going to arrive at a venue bus, whatever the case may be, so that they get to their locker room, get to their services that out to their field and back and forth to media obligations. >>So you don't want to put a media work room halfway across the stadium because then they're making a long Trek. It's a little things like that in the, in the team component, spectators, obviously theirs could be 50 to, if it's a baseball park, 50,000 up to 70,000 in a stadium. We want to ensure that they're going to fully enjoy their two to four hours in that building. Um, so we work on scheduling with our vendor. The one of the biggest things we found in the, in that area is we have really engaged with our contractors, the concessions folks, because they were kind of operating on their own. So engaging concessions to say, don't be moving product when there are people in the building, no one, the timeouts are, we'll call you from control based on the schedule so that we're synchronizing building operations so that they're, the customers are running out of water. >>Well we didn't run out of water, we couldn't get it to you. So things like that are really important to our planning. And then the group that really gets overlooked at, I spend a lot of time on is the people that helped build and get the building ready. Because if my vendors are having a rough time getting their things in the building or building the platform I've asked for or setting up the stage, they're just not going to be in a good frame of mind when the lights turn on. And I want everybody to be, yeah, let's go. We've had a great experience in the five days leading up to this event, whatever it may be. I'm ready now to put on a show. So we use Smartsheet IX so much with our vendors to help guide them through the build process, scheduling, deliveries, getting their credentials where they're going to park and where do I take my breaks? >>Everything is there at their fingertips. So even the mom and pop vendors that I deal with, and there are quite a few of them from city to city, feel like they're as important as my Avi company. So they're excited. They do their load in there like, Hey, this is a great experience and now they're here to help support the event. And then when I call and go, guess what? We have a problem. I need your help. They're going to share, Mark, what can we do? Right? Cause they're there, they're enthusiastic and they didn't feel like I beat 'em up right during that load in great, great insight. People centric. But you're talking about it's treating people like people, not just that they are some cog in the wheel that they are to to execute this task. Right, right. Yeah. No happy staff deliver happy events. >>So what's next in terms of, in terms of a broader adoption in terms of more improvements that you're seeing on the pipeline? Um, so I'm really excited about the collaboration component that was announced today at the keynote. Um, we are an architect firm, so the base of all of our plant, all of our events is a set of drawings, drawings that show what we need, where it is, when it's gonna happen. So all of our non drawing material has lived in Smartsheet for 10 years. I'm now gonna be able to bring those drawings in and get the collaborative information to feedback. So we take a drawing, we'll send it to CBS and say, please Mark up how you think we've drawn your broadcast compound. That has all been email. Now with this collaboration tool, it's going to live in Smartsheets. So I cannot tell you how excited I am about the collaboration component. >>It's gonna. It's gonna really streamline how we do our business. I, I'm kinda lost for words to get in there and try it. My staff is gonna probably go Mark. You can't go to any more conferences, but, uh, I think it's really going to be a great addition to our work process. Um, the other one that has been a personal part of mine, a personal goal that I've seen is the adoption by our staff are the to day work process. Um, I listened in the office, we have a big open work plan space and I listened for my staff going, I've got to put this plan together, attract this and I go, I literally will stand up and walk over. Have you thought about using Smartsheet? And half of the time they haven't. And um, I will say, let me help you through it. Let me get you started and see if it works for you. >>Um, so that organic growth with Smartsheet, um, is, is the big step that we're doing on a day to day basis, um, to get staff introduced to a new way to work and be more collaborative of how they, they manage your information. So, um, just that that kind of growth is, is, is ongoing. Um, but after I've been to the conference, I can say I've got a little more knowledge about it. Let me, uh, let me, uh, help you out a little bit and get you to use it. Right, right, right, right. And you're even finding ways to use it in your personal life, you said? Sure. I use it for home tasks. We plan, we plan our kid's birthday celebrations in it. So my wife and I will share a sheet about who's visiting for graduation. My daughter's high school graduation is coming up. We actually post a forum on Smartsheet coming where they staying at the tag that I put up on the wall over there as people think I work for Smartsheet with how much we use it. So yes, it bleeds into the personal life, but why not exactly a word. I don't fix it. Thank you so much for coming on. The show is a lot of fun talking pleasure. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned. Have more of engaged 2019 here in Seattle. You're watching the cube.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the cubes Live coverage Of'em World 2019 in San Francisco, California We're here at Mosconi North Lobby. Two sets. Jumper of my Coast. David wanted Dave 10 years. Our 10th season of the cue coming up on our 10 year anniversary May of 2020. But this corner are 10 years of the Cube. Our next guest is Sanjay Putting Chief Operating Officer Of'em where who took the time out of his busy schedule to help us do a commemorative look back. Thanks for coming to our studio. Hello, John. That was great. Fans of yours was really regulations on the 10 year mark with the, um well, we really appreciate your partnership. We really appreciate one. Things we love doing is covering as we call that thing. David, I coined the term tech athletes, you know, kind of the whole joke of ESPN effect that we've been called and they're really tech athlete is just someone who's a strong in tech always fighting for that extra inch. Always putting in the hard work discipline, smart, competitive. You get all that above. Plus, you interviewed athletes today on state real athletes. Real athletes, Tech show. So I guess they would qualify as Tech athlete Steve Young. That's pretty funny. It was a >> great time. We've been trying to, you know, Veum World is now the first time was 2004. So it's 1/16 season here, and traditionally many of these tech conference is a really boring because it's just PowerPoint dead by power point lots of Tec Tec Tec Tec breakout sessions. And we're like, You know, last year we thought, Why don't we mix it up and have something that's inspirational education We had Malala was a huge hit. People are crying at the end of the session. Well, let's try something different this year, and we thought the combination of Steve Young and Lyndsey one would be great. Uh, you know, Listen, just like you guys prepped for these interviews, I did a lot of prep. I mean, I'm not I'm a skier, but I'm nowhere close to an avid skier that watch in the Olympics huge fan of Steve Young so that part was easy, but preparing for Lindsay was tough. There were many dynamics of that interview that I had to really think through. You want to get both of them to converse, you know, he's She's 34 he's 55. You want to get them to really feel like it's a good and I think it kind of played out well. >> You were watching videos. A great prep. Congratulations >> trying t o show. It's the culture of bringing the humanization aspect of your team about tech for good. Also, you believe in culture, too, and I don't get your thoughts on that. You recently promoted one of your person that she has a chief communications Johnstone Johnstone about stars you promote from within. This >> is the >> culture you believe it. Talk about the ethos. Jones is a rock star. We love her. She's just >> hardworking, credible, well respected. Inside VM where and when we had a opening in that area a few months ago, I remember going to the her team meeting and announcing, and the team erupted in cheers. I mean that to me tells me that somebody was well liked from within, respected within and pure level and you know the organization's support for a promotion of that kind of battlefield promotion. It's great big fan of hers, and this is obviously her first show at Vienna. Well, along with Robin, Matt, look. So we kind of both of them as the chief marketing officer, Robin and Jones >> and Robinson story. Low Crawl made her interim first, but they then she became Steve Made it Permanent way. >> Want them to both do well. They have different disciplines. Susan, uh, national does our alliances, you know, if you include my chief of staff for the six of my direct reports are women, and I'm a big believer in more women. And take why? Because I want my Sophia, who's 13 year old do not feel like the tech industry is something that is not welcome to women in tech. So, you know, we really want to see more of them. And I hope that the folks who are reporting to me in senior positions senior vice president is an example can be a role model to other women who are aspiring, say, one day I wanna be like a Jones Stone or Robin. Madam Local Susan Nash, >> John and I both have daughters, so we're passionate about this. Tech is everywhere, so virtually whatever industry they go into. But I've asked this question Sanjay of women before on the Cube. I've never asked him in. And because you have a track record of hiring women, how do you succeed in hiring women? Sometimes way have challenges because way go into our little network. Convenient. What? What's your approach? Gotta >> blow off that network and basically say First off, if that network is only male or sometimes unfortunately white male or just Indian male, which is sometimes the nature of tech I mean, if you're looking for a new position, tell the recruiters to find you something that's different. Find me, Ah woman. Find me on underrepresented minority like an African American Latino and those people exist. You just have a goal. Either build a network yourself. So you've got those people on your radar. We'll go look, and that's more work on us, says leaders. But we should be doing that work. We should be cultivating those people because the more you promote capable. First off, you have to be capable. This is not, you know, some kind of affirmative action away. We want capable people. Someone shouldn't get the job just because they're a woman just because the minority, that's not the way we work. We want capable people to do it. But if we have to go a little further to find them, we'll go do it. That's okay. They exist. So part of my desires to cultivate relationships with women and underrepresented minorities in the world that can actually in the world of tech and maintain those relationships because you never know you're not gonna hire them immediately. But at some point in time, you might need to have them on your radar. >> Sanjay, I wanna ask you a big picture question. I didn't get a chance to ask path this morning. I was at the bar last night just having a little dinner, and I was checking out Twitter. And he said that the time has never been. It's never been a greater time arm or important time to be a technologist. Now I saw that I went interesting. What does that mean? Economic impact, social impact? And I know we often say that, and I don't say this to disparage the comment. It's just to provide historical context and get a get it open discussion about what is actually achievable with tech in this era and what we actually believe. So I started to do some research and I started right down. First of all, I presume you believe that right on your >> trusty napkin at the >> bar. So there has never been a more important time to be a technologist. You know, it's your company at your league. You know, Pat, I presume you agree with it. Yeah, absolutely. I slipped it back to the 1900. Electricity, autos, airplanes, telephones. So you we, as an industry are up against some pretty major innovations. With that historical context, Do you feel as though we can have a similar greater economic and social impact? >> Let's start with economic first and social. Next time. Maybe we should do the opposite, but economic? Absolutely. All those inventions that you >> have are all being reinvented. The technology the airplanes all been joined by software telephones are all driving through, you know, five g, which is all software in the future. So tech is really reinventing every industry, including the mundane non tech industries like agriculture. If you look at what's happening. Agriculture, I ot devices are monitoring the amount of water that should go to particular plant in Brazil, or the way in which you're able to use big data to kind of figure out what's the right way to think about health care, which is becoming very much tech oriented financial service. Every industry is becoming a tech industry. People are putting tech executives on their boards because they need an advice on what is the digital transformations impact on them cybersecurity. Everyone started by this. Part of the reason we made these big moves and security, including the acquisition of carbon black, is because that's a fundamental topic. Now social, we have to really use this as a platform for good. So just the same way that you know a matchstick could help. You know, Warm house and could also tear down the house. Is fire good or bad? That's been the perennial debate since people first discovered fire technology. Is this the same way it can be used? Reboot. It could be bad in our job is leaders is to channel the good and use examples aware tech is making a bit force for good. And then listen. Some parts of it may not be tech, but just our influence in society. One thing that pains me about San Francisco's homelessness and all of the executives that a partner to help rid this wonderful city of homeless men. They have nothing to attack. It might be a lot of our philanthropy that helps solve that and those of us who have much. I mean, I grew up in a poor, uh, bringing from Bangla, India, but now I have much more than I have. Then I grew up my obligations to give back, and that may have nothing to do with Tech would have to do all with my philanthropy. Those are just principles by which I think when you live with your a happier man, happier woman, you build a happier >> society and I want to get your thoughts on common. And I asked a random set of college students, thanks to my son that the network is you said your daughter to look at the key to Pat's King Pat's commentary in The Cube here this morning that was talking about tech for good. And here's some of the comments, but I liked the part about tech for good and humanity. Tech with no purpose is meaningless tech back by purposes. More impactful is what path said then the final comments and Pat's point quality engineering backing quality purpose was great. So again, this is like this is Gen Z, not Millennials. But again, this is the purpose where it's not just window dressing on on industry. It's, you know, neutral fire. I like that argument. Fire. That's a good way Facebook weaponizing Facebook could be good or bad, right? Same thing. But the younger generation. You're new demographics that are coming into cloud. Native. Yeah, what do you think? >> No. And I think that's absolutely right. We have to build a purpose driven company that's purposes much more than just being the world's best softer infrastructure company or being the most profit. We have to obviously deliver results to our shareholders. But I think if you look at the Milton Friedman quote, you know, paper that was written that said, the sole purpose of a company is just making profits, and every business school student is made to read that I >> think even he >> would probably agree that listen today While that's important, the modern company has to also have a appropriate good that they are focused on, you know, with social good or not. And I don't think it's a trade off being able to have a purpose driven culture that makes an impact on society and being profitable. >> And a pointed out yesterday on our intro analysis, the old term was You guys go Oh, yeah, Michael Dell and PAD shareholder value. They point out that stakeholder value, because now the stakeholder Employees and society. So congratulations could keep keep keep it going on the millennial generation. >> Just like your son and our kids want a purpose driven company. They want to know that the company that working for is having an impact. Um, not just making an impression. You do that. It shows like, but having an impact. >> And fire is the most popular icon on instagram. Is that right? Yeah, I know that fire is good. Like your fire. Your hot I don't know. I guess. Whatever. Um fire. Come comment. There was good Sanjay now on business front. Okay, again, A lot of inflection points happen over 10 years. We look back at some of this era, the Abel's relationship would you know about. But they've also brought up a nuance which we talked about on the intro air Watch. You were part of that acquisition again. Pig part of it. So what Nasiriyah did for the networking STD see movement that shaped VM. Whereas it is today your acquisition that you were involved and also shaping the end user computing was also kind of come together with the cloud Natives. >> How is >> this coming to market? I mean, you could get with >> my comparison with carbon black there watch was out of the building. Carbon black is not considered. >> Let's talk about it openly. And we talked about it some of the earnings because we got that question. Listen, I was very fortunate. Bless to work on the revitalization of end user computing that was Turbo charged to the acquisition of a watch. At that time was the biggest acquisition we did on both Nice era and air watch put us into court new markets, networking and enterprise mobility of what we call not additional work space. And they've been so successful thanks to know not just me. It was a team of village that made those successful. There's a lot of parallels what we're doing. Carbon, black and security. As we looked at the security industry, we feel it's broken. I alluded to this, but if I could replay just 30 seconds of what I said on some very important for your viewers to know this if I went to my doctor, my mom's a doctor and I asked her how Doe I get well, and she proposed 5000 tablets to me. Okay, it would take me at 30 seconds of pop to eat a tablet a couple of weeks to eat 5000 tablets. That's not how you stay healthy. And the analogy is 5000 metres and security all saying that they're important fact. They use similar words to the health care industry viruses. I mean, you know, you and what do you do instead, to stay healthy, you have a good diet. You eat your vegetables or fruit. Your proteins drink water. So part of a diet is making security intrinsic to the platform. So the more that we could make security intrinsic to the platform, we avoid the bloatware of agents, the number of different consuls, all of this pleasure of tools that led to this morass. And what happens at the end of that is you about these point vendors, Okay, Who get gobbled up by hardware companies that's happening spattered my hardware companies and sold to private equity companies. What happens? The talent they all leave, we look at the landscape is that's ripe for disruption, much the same way we saw things with their watch. And, you know, we had only companies focusing VD I and we revitalize and innovative that space. So what we're gonna do in securities make it intrinsic and take a modern cloud security company carbon black, and make that part of our endpoint Security and Security Analytics strategy? Yes, they're one of two companies that focus in the space. And when we did air watch, they were number three. Good was number one. Mobile line was number two and that which was number three and the embers hands. We got number one. The perception in this space is common. Lacks number two and crowdstrike number one. That's okay, you know, that might be placed with multiple vendors, but that's the state of it today, and we're not going point against Crowdstrike. Our competition's not just an endpoint security point to a were reshaping the entire security industry, and we believe with the integration that we have planned, like that product is really good. I would say just a cz good upper hand in some areas ahead of common black, not even counting the things we're gonna integrate with it. It's just that they didn't have the gold market muscle. I mean, the sales and marketing of that company was not as further ahead that >> we >> change Of'em where we've got an incredible distribution will bundle that also with the Dell distribution, and that can change. And it doesn't take long for that to take a lot of customers here. One copy black. So that's the way in which we were old. >> A lot of growth there. >> Yeah, plenty of >> opportunity to follow up on that because you've obviously looked at a lot of companies and crowdstrike. I mean, huge valuation compared to what you guys paid for carbon black. I mean, >> I'm a buyer. I mean, if I'm a buyer, I liked what we paid. >> Well, I had some color to it. Just when you line up the Was it really go to market. I mean some functions. Maybe not that there >> was a >> few product gaps, but it's not very nominal. But when you add what we announced in a road map app, defensive alderman management, the integration of works based one this category is gonna be reshaped very quickly. Nobody, I mean, the place. We're probably gonna compete more semantic and McAfee because most of those companies that kind of decaying assets, you know, they've gotten acquired by the companies and they're not innovating. So I'd say the bulk of the market will be eating up the leftover fossils of those sort of companies as as companies decided they want to invest in legacy. Technology is a more modern, but I think the differentiation from Crowdstrike very clear is we integrate these, these technology and the V's fear. Let me give an example. With that defense, we can make that that workload security agent list. Nobody can do that. Nobody, And that's apt defense with carbon black huge innovation. I described on stage workspace one plus carbon black is like peanut butter and jelly management. Security should go together. Nobody could do that as good as us. Okay, what we do inside NSX. So those four areas that I outlined in our plans with carbon black pending the close of the transaction into V sphere Agent Lis with workspace one unified with NSX integrated and into secure state, You know, in the cloud security area we take that and then send it through the V m. Where the devil and other ecosystem channels like you No idea. Security operative CDW You know, I think Dimension data, all the security savvy partners here. I think the distribution and the innovation of any of'em were takes over long term across strike may have a very legitimate place, but our strategy is very different. We're not going point tool against 0.0.2 wish reshaping the security industry. Yeah, What platform? >> You're not done building that platform. My obvious question is the other other assets inside of Arcee and secureworks that you'd like to get your hands on. >> I mean, listen, at this point in time, we are good. I mean, it's the same thing like asking me when we acquired air watching. Nice Here. Are you gonna do more networking and mobility? Yeah, but we're right now. We got enough to Digest in due course you. For five years later, we did acquire Arkin for network Analytics. We acquired fellow Cloud for SD when we're cloud recently, Avi. So the approach we take a hammer to innovations first. You know, if you're gonna have an anchor acquisition, make sure it's got critical mass. I mean, buying a small start up with only 35 people 10 people doesn't really work for us. So we got 1100 people would come back, we're gonna build on it. But let's build, build, build, build, partner and then acquire. So we will partner a lot with a lot of players. That compliment competition will build a lot around this. >> And years from now, we need >> add another tuck in acquisition. But we feel we get a lot in this acquisition from both endpoint security and Security Analytics. Okay, it's too early to say how much more we will need and when we will need that. But, you know, our goal would be Let's go plot away. I have a billion dollar business and then take it from there. >> One more security question, if I may say so. I'm not trying to pit you against your friends and AWS. But there are some cleared areas where your counter poise >> Stevens just runs on eight of us comin back. >> That part about a cloud that helps your class ass business. I like the acquisition. But Steven Schmidt, it reinforced the cloud security conference, said, You know, this narrative in the industry that security is broken is not the right one. Now, by the way, agree with this. Security's a do over pat kill singer. And we talked about that for five years ago. Um, but then in eight of you says the shared security model, when you talk to the practitioners like, yeah, they they cover, that's three and compute. But we have the the real work to d'oh! So help me square that circle. >> Yeah, I think if aws bills Security Service is that our intrinsic to their platform and they open up a prize, we should leverage it. But I don't think aws is gonna build workload security for azure compute or for Gogol compute. That's against the embers or into the sphere. Like after finishing third accordion. And they're like, That's not a goal. You go do it via more So from my perspective. Come back to hydrogen. 80. If there's a workload security problem that's going to require security at the kernel of the hyper visor E C to azure compute containers. Google Compute. >> Who's gonna do >> that? Jammer? Hopefully, hopefully better than because we understand the so workloads. Okay, now go to the client site. There's Windows endpoints. There's Mac. There's Lennox. Who should do it? We've been doing that for a while on the client side and added with workspace one. So I think if you believe there is a Switzerland case for security, just like there was a Switzerland case for management endpoint management I described in Point management in Point Security going together like peanut butter and jelly, Whatever your favorite analogy is, if we do that well, we will prove to the market just like we did with their watch An endpoint management. There is a new way of doing endpoint security. Dan has been done ever before. Okay, none >> of these >> guys let me give an example. I've worked at Semantic 15 years ago. I know a lot about the space. None of these guys built a really strategic partnership with the laptop vendors. Okay, Del was not partnering strategically on their laptops with semantic micro. Why? Because if this wasn't a priority, then they were, you know, and a key part of what we're doing here is gonna be able to do end point management. And in point security and partner Adult, they announced unified workspace integrated into the silicon of Dell laptops. Okay, we can add endpoint security that capability next. Why not? I mean, if you could do management security. So, you know, we think that workspace one, we'll get standing toe work space security with the combination of workspace one and security moving and carbon black. >> Sanjay, we talked about this on our little preview and delivery. Done us. We don't need to go into it. The Amazon relationship cleared the way for the strategy in stock price since October 2016 up. But >> one of the >> things I remember from that announcement that I heard from the field sales folks that that were salespeople for VM wear as well as customers, was finally clarity around. What the hell? We're doing the cloud. So I bring up the go to market In the business side, the business results are still strong. Doing great. You guys doing a great job? >> How do you >> keep your field troops motivated? I know Michael Dell says these are all in a strategy line. So when we do these acquisitions, you >> had a lot >> of new stuff coming in. I mean, what's how do you keep him trained? Motivated constantly simplifying whenever >> you get complex because you add into your portfolio, you go back and simplify, simplify, simplify, make it Sesame Street simple. So we go back to that any cloud, any app, any device diagram, if you would, which had security on the side. And we say Now, let's tell you looking this diagram how the new moves that we've made, whether it's pivotal and what we're announcing with tanz ou in the container layer that's in that any Apple air carbon black on the security there. But the core strategy of the emer stays the same. So the any cloud strategy now with the relevance now what, what eight of us, Who's our first and preferred partner? But if you watched on stage, Freddie Mac was incredible. Story. Off moving 600 absent of the N word cloud made of us Fred and Tim Snyder talked about that very eloquently. The deputy CTO. They're ratty Murthy. CTO off Gap basically goes out and says, Listen, I got 800 APS. I'm gonna invest a lot on premise, and when I go to the cloud, I'm actually going to Azure. >> Thanks for joining you. Keep winning. Keep motivated through winning >> and you articulate a strategy that constantly tells people Listen. It's their choice of how they run in the data center in the cloud. It's their choice, and we basically on top of all of those in the any cloud AP world. That's how we play on the same with the device and the >> security. A lot of great things having Sanjay. Thanks >> for you know what a cricket fan I am. Congratulations. India won by 318 goals. Is that >> what they call girls run against the West Indies? I think you >> should stay on and be a 40 niner fan for when you get Tom baseball get Tom Brady's a keynote will know will be in good Wasn't Steve Young and today love so inspirational and we just love them? Thank you for coming on the Cube. 10 years. Congratulations. Any cute moments you can point out >> all of them. I mean, I think when I first came to, I was Who's the d? I said ASAP, like these guys, John and Dave, and I was like, Man, they're authentic people. What I like about you is your authentic real good questions. When I came first year, you groomed me a lot of their watch like, Hey, this could be a big hat. No cattle. What you gonna do? And you made me accountable. You grilled me on eight of us. You're grilling me right now on cloud native and modern, absent security, which is good. You keep us accountable. Hopefully, every you're that we come to you, we want to show as a team that we're making progress and then were credible back with you. That's the way we roll. >> Sanjay. Thanks for coming. Appreciate. Okay, we're live here. Stay with us for more of this short break from San Francisco v emerald 2019

>> Narrator: Live from Austin, Texas, it's The Cube covering South by Southwest 2017, brought to you by Intel. Now, here's John Furrier. >> Hey, welcome everyone back for day two of live coverage of South by Southwest. This is the cube, our flagship program from Silicon Angle. We go out to the events and extract the (mumbles). We're at the Intel AI Lounge, people are rolling in, it's an amazing vibe here, South by Southwest. The themes are AI, virtual reality, augmented reality, technology. They got great booths here, free beers, free drinks, and of course great sessions and great conversations here with the Cube. My first guest of the day here is Ben Parr, a friend of the Cube. He's been an entrepreneur, he's been a social media maven, he's been a journalist, all around great guy. Ben, thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you for having me again. >> So you're a veteran with South by Southwest, you know the social scene, you've seen the evolution from Web 2.0 all the way to today, had Scobel on yesterday, Brian Fanzo, really the vibe is all about that next level, of social to connecting and you got a startup you're working on that you founded, co-founded called AI? >> Ben: Octane AI. >> Octane AI, that's in the heart of this new social fabric that's developing. Where AI is starting to do stuff, keep learning, analytics but, ultimately, it's just a connection. Talk about your company. What is Octane AI? Tell us a little bit about the company. >> So Octane AI is a platform that lets you build an audience on Facebook Messenger and then through a bot. And so, what we do is allow you to create a presence on Messenger because if I told you there was a social app that had a billion users every month, bigger than Snapchat plus Twitter plus Instagram combined you'd want to figure out a strategy for how to engage with those people right? And that social app is Facebook Messenger. And yet no one ever thinks, oh could I build an audience on a messaging app? Could I build an audience on Messenger or WeChat or any of the others. But you can through a bot. And you can not just build an audience but you can create really engaging content through conversation. So what we've done is, we've made it really easy to make a bot on messenger but more importantly, a real reason for people to, actually, come to your bot and engage with it and make it really easy to create content for it. In the same way you create content for a blog or create content for YouTube Channel. Maroon 5, Aerosmith, KISS, Lindsay Lohan, 30 seconds to MARS, Jason Derulo and a whole bunch more use us to build an audience and engage their fans on Messenger. >> So let me get your thoughts on a couple of trends around this. Cause this is really kind of, to me, a key part that chat bots illustrate the big trends that are going on. Chat bots were the hype. People were talking about, oh chat bots. It's a good mental model for people to see AI but it also has been, kind of, I won't say a pest, if you will, for users. It's been like a notification. A notification of the economy we're living in. Now you're taking it to the next level. This is what we're seeing. The deep learnings and the analytics around turning notifications which can be noisy after a while, into real content and connections. >> Into something useful, absolutely. Like look, the last year of bots. The Facebook platform is not even a year old. We've been in that fart apps stage of bots. Remember the first year of mobile apps? You had the fart app and that made $50,000 a day and that was annoying as hell. We're at that stage now, the experimentation stage. And we've seen different companies going in different, really cool directions. Our direction is, how do you create compelling content so you're not spamming people but you have content that you can share, not just in your bot but as a link on your social media to your followers, to your fans, on Twitter, everywhere else and have a scalable conversation about whatever you want. Maroon 5 has conversations with their audience about their upcoming tours or they even released an exclusive preview of their new song, Cold, through our bots. You could do almost anything with our bots or with any bot. We're just learning right now, as an industry, what are the best practices. >> So where do bots go for the next level? Because you and I have known each other for almost over 10 years, we've seen the whole movement and now we're living in a fake news era. But social media is evolving where content now is super important that glues people together, communities together. In a way, you're taking AI or bots, if you will. Which is a first, I mean, .5 version of where AI is going. Where content, now, is being blended into notifications. How important is content in community? >> Content in community are essential to any product. And I feel like when you hear the word bot, you don't think community and that you could build a community with it because it's a bot, it's supposed to be automated. But you, actually, can if you do it in the right way and it can be a very, very powerful experience. We're building features that allow you to build more community in your bot and have people who are talking with your bot communicate with each other. There's a lot of that. What I feel like is, we're at the zero point one or zero point two of the long scale of AI. What we need to do right now is showcase all the use cases that really work for AI, bots, machine learning. Over time, we will be adding more other great technologies from Intel and others that will make all these technologies and everything we do better, more social and most of all, more personalized. I think that's one of the big benefits of AI. >> Do you see bot technology or what bots can turn into being embedded into things like autonomous vehicles, AR, is there a stack developing, if you will, around bots? What you're talking about is a progression of bots. What's your vision on where this goes down the road? >> I see a bunch of companies, now, building the technological stack for AI. I see a bunch of companies building the consumer interface, bots is one of those consumer interfaces. Not just chat bots but voice bots. And then I see another layer that's more enterprise that's helping make more efficient things like recruiting or all sorts of automation or driving. That are being built as well. But you need each of those stacks to work really well to make this all work. >> So are there bots here at South by Southwest? Is there a bot explosion, is there bots that tell you where the best parties are? What's the scene here at Southby? Where are the bots and if there were bots, what would they be doing to help people figure out what to do? >> The Southby bot is, actually, not a bad bot. They launched their bot just before South by Southwest. It has a good party recommendations and things. But it the standard bot. I feel like what we're seeing is the best use, there's a lot of good bot people. What I'm seeing right now is that people are still flushing out the best use cases for their bots. There's no bot yet that can predict all the parties you want to go to. We got to have our expectations set. That will happen but we're still a few years away from really deep AI bots. But there are clearly ones where you can communicate faster with your friends. There's clearly ones that help you connect with your favorite artist. There's clearly ones that help you build an audience and communicate at scale. And I feel like the next step is the usefulness. >> Talk about the user interface. Robert Scobel and I were talking yesterday, we have some guests coming on today that had user experience background. With AI, with virtual reality, with bots, with deep learning, all this collective intelligence going on, what's your vision of the user interface as it changes, as people's expectations? What are some of those things that you might see developing pretty quickly as deep learning, analytics, more data stats come online? What is the user interface? Cause bots will intersect with that as an assistant or a value add for the user. What's your vision on? >> I'll tell you what I see in the near term and then I'll tell you a really crazy idea of how I see the long term. In the near term, I think what you're going to see is bots have become more predictive. That, based on your conversations, are more personalized and maybe not a necessarily need as much input from you to be really intelligent. And so voice, text, standard interfaces that we're used to. I think the bigger, longer run is neurological. Is the ability to interface without having to speak. Is AI as a companion to help us in everything we do. I feel like, in 30 years, we won't even, it's, kind of like, do your remember the world when it had no internet? It's hard, it feels so much different. There will be a point in about 20 years we will not understand what the world was before AI. Before AI assistance where assisting us mentally, automatically and through every interface. And so good AI's, in the long run, don't just run on one bot or one thing, they follow you wherever you go. Right now it might be on your phone. When you get home, it may be on your home, it may be in your car but it should be the same sets of AI's that you use daily. >> Doctor Nevine Rou, yesterday, called the AI the bulldozer for data. What bulldozers where in the real world, AI's going to do that for data. Cause you want to service more data and make things more usable for users. >> Yes, the data really helps AI become more personalized and that's a really big benefit to the user to every individual. The more personalized the experience, the less you have to do. >> Alright, so what's the most amazing thing you've seen so far this year at Southby? What's going on out there that's pretty amazing? That's popping out of the wood work? In terms of either trend, content, product, demos, what are some of the cool things you're seeing. >> So, as it is only Saturday, I feel like the coolest thing will still come to me. But outside of AI, there have been some really cool mixed reality, augmented reality demos. I can't remember the name. There's a product with butterflies flying around me. All sorts of really breaking edge technologies that, really, create another new interface honestly where AI may interact with us through the augmented reality of our world. I mean, that's Robert Scogul's thing exactly. But there's a lot of really cool things that are being built on that front. I think those are the obvious, coolest ones. I'm curious to see which ones are going to be the big winners. >> Okay, so I want to ask you a personal question. So you were doing some venture investing around AI and some other things. What caused you to put that pause button on that mission to start the chat bot AI company? >> So I was an investor for a couple of years. I invested in ubean, the wireless electricity company and Shots with Justin Bieber which is always fun. And I love investing and I love working with companies. But I got into Silicone Valley and I got into startups because I wanted to build companies. I wanted to build ideas. This happened, in part, because of my co-founders. My co-founder Matt, who is the first head of product at Ustream and twice into the Forbes 30 under 30. One of the king makers of the bot industry. The opportunity to be a part of building the future of AI was irresistible to me. I needed to be a part of that. >> Okay, can you tell any stories about Justin Bieber for us, while we're here inside the Cube? (laughs) >> I wonder how many of those I can, actually, tell? Okay, so look. Justin Bieber is an investor in a company I'm an investor in called Shots. Which is now a super studio that represents everyone from Lele Pons to Mike Tyson on digital online and they're doing really, really well. One of Justin's best friends is the founder, John Shahidi. And so it's just really random. Sitting with John, who I invested in and just getting random FaceTime's. Be like, oh it's Justin Bieber, say hi to Justin. As if it was nothing. As if it was a normal, it's a normal day in his life. >> Could you just have him retweet one of my Tweets. He's got like a zillion followers. What's his follower count at now? >> You don't want that. He's done that to me before. When Justin retweets you or even John retweets you, thousands of not tens of thousands of Justin Bieber fans, bots and not bots, start messaging you, asking you to follow them, talking to you all the time. I still get the tweets all the time from all the Justin fans. >> Okay don't tweet me then. I'm nice and happy with 21,000 followers. Alright, so next level for you in terms of this venture. Obviously, they got some rock stars in there. What's the next step for you guys right now? Give us a little inside baseball in the venture status where you guys are at. What's the next step? >> We launched the company publicly in November, we started in May. We raised 1.6 million from general catalyst, from Sherpa Ventures, a couple of others. When we launched our new feature, Convos, which allows you to create shareable bots, shareable conversations with the way you share blog posts. And that came out with all those launch partners I mentioned before like Maroon 5. We're working on perfecting the experience and, mostly, trying to make a really, really compelling experience with the user with bots because if we can't do that, then there's no use to doing anything. >> So you provide the octane for the explosive conversations? (laughs) >> Yes, there you go, thank you, thank you. And we make it really easy. So we're just trying to make it easier to do this. This is a product that your mom could use, that an artist could use, any social media team could use. Writing a convo is like writing a blog post on media. >> Are moms really getting the chat bot scene? I, honestly, get the Hollywood. I'm going to go back to Hollywood in a second but being a general, middle America kind of tech/genre, what are they like? Are they grokking the whole bot thing? What's the feedback from middle America tech? >> But think of it this way. There are a billion people on Messenger and it's a, really, part of the question, they all use Facebook Messenger. And so, they may be communicating with a bot without knowing it. Or they might want to communicate with their fans. It's not about the technology as much as this is like connecting with who you really care about. If I really care about a Maroon 5 or Rachel Ray, I can now have that option. And it doesn't really matter what the technology is as much as it is that personal connection, that experience is good. >> John: Is it one-one-one or group? Cause it sounds like it's town hall, perfect for a town hall situation. >> It's one-on-one, it's scale. So you could have a conversation with a bot while each of the audience members is having a conversation one-on-one. When you can choose different options and it could be a different conversation for each person. >> Alright, so I got to ask about the Hollywood scene. You mentioned Justin Bieber. I wanted to go down that because Hollywood really has adopted social media pretty heavily because they can go direct to the audience. We're seeing that. Obviously, with the election, Trump was on Twitter. He bypasses all the press but Hollywood has done very well with social. How are they using the bots? They are a tell sign of where it's going. Can you share some antidotal stories or data around how Maroon 5, Justin, these guys are leveraging this and what's some of the impact? >> Sure, so about a month 1/2, 2 months before Maroon 5 launched their new song, new single, Cold. They came to us and wanted to build a distribution. They wanted to reach their audience in a more direct personal way. And so we helped them make a bot. It didn't take long. We helped them write convos. And so what they did was they wrote convos about things like exclusive behind the scenes photos from their recent tour or their top moments of 2016 or things that their fans really care about. And they shared em. They got a URL just like you would get, a blog poster URL. They shared it out with their 39 million Facebook fans, they shared it with their Twitter followers, they shared it across their social media. And 10's of thousand's of people started talking with their bot each time they did this. About 24 hours before the bot, before their new single release, they exclusively released a 10 second clip of Cold through their bot. And when they did that, within 24 hours, the size of their bot doubled because it went viral within the Maroon 5 community. There's a share function in our convos and people shared the convo with their friends and with their friends friends and it kept on spreading. We saw this viral graph happen. And the next day when they released the single, 1000's of people bought the song because of the bot alone. And now the bot is a core of their social strategy. They share a convo every single week and it's not just them but now Lohan and a whole bunch of others are doing the same thing. >> John: Lindsay Lohan. >> Lindsay Lohan is one of our most popular bots. Her fans are really dedicated. >> And so you can almost see it's, almost connecting with CGI, looking at what CGI's doing in film making. You could almost have a CGI component built-in. So it's all this stuff coming together. >> Ben: Multimedia matters. >> So what do you think about the Intel booth here? The AI experience? They got some Kinetic photo experience, amazing non-profit activities in deep loading (mumbles), missing children, what do you think? >> This is some of the best use cases for AI which is, people think of AI as just like the direct consumer interface which is what we do but AI is an underlying layer to everything we do. And if it can help even 1% or 1,000% identify and find missing children or increase the efficiency of our technology stacks so that we save energy. Or we figure out new ways to save energy. This is where AI can really make an impact. It is just a fundamental layer of everything. In the same way the internet is just a fundamental layer of everything. So I've seen some very cool things here. >> Alright, Ben Parr, great guest, in venture capitalist now founder of a great company Octane AI. High octane, explosive conversations looking forward to adopting. We're going to, definitely, take advantage of the chat bot and maybe we can get some back stage passes to Maroon 5. (laughs) >> (laughs) There will be some fun times in the future, I know it. >> Alright Ben Parr. >> Ben: Justin Bieber. >> Justin Bieber inside the Cube right here and Ben Parr. Thanks for watching. It's the Intel AI Lounge. A lot of great stuff. A lot of great people here. Thanks for joining us. Our next guest will be up after this short break. (lively music)

>>Welcome back everyone. This is our final wrap-up of the Amazon web services. Reinvent conferences is SiliconANGLE and Wiki bonds. The cube is our flagship program. We go out to the events, extract the signal from the noise. I'm John furry or the founders to look an angle. And of course I'm joining my cohost partner in crime. Dave Volante, co-founder with you bond.org. Um, really exciting event, Dave, I got to say, this is our wrap up. Let's put a bow on this show. Let's put the bumper sticker on the car and let's see what, uh, what was this document? What happened day one enterprise day to infrastructure day three ties it all together with Kinesis. Amazon is doing two things. That's very, very rare in tech history, and that is a disrupting and innovating at the same time. The magic it's the magic formula. And to me, it's really two tactical executions, one ball moving the ball yard by yard first and 10, do it again to use the football analogy, moving the chains, moving the ball down the field, kind of a running game, ground game, whatever a call it. >>And then the big yardage passing play with Kinesis, I think really brings their success of an integrated stack. And I believe they're going to be the iPhone like model for the cloud they're they're light years ahead of everybody else on public cloud. Uh, they're winning the developers. And again, we just heard from Dr. Matt would kind of reiterating what we were saying in our previous segment about the diversity of the successes. It's not a one trick pony. They got diversity from startups to large enterprises to NASA. So Dave, I mean, I mean, who is going to take on Amazon, who is going to challenge Amazon? That's the question that we want to know right now. It's not looking good right now. They're got a commanding lead in the cloud space and it'd be really interesting to watch how the Kinesis, the enterprise movement, uh, with VDI announcement and workspaces and all the enhancements in the, in the performance is going to shift the sand in the industry. And you're already seeing Cisco down 12% VMware stocks down. I mean, game-changing, the sands are shifting. What's your >>Well, I think we're seeing history in the making here, John. I mean, I think last year at reinvent com leading up to we reinvent, we realized that this event was going to be big and not just the event. The event is a metaphor for the shift that's occurring in the industry. We're talking about a trillion plus dollar marketplace that Amazon is disrupting and believe it or not, they're tiny, even though there are three or 4 billion, they're tiny, it's a trillion dollar Tam that is absolutely getting flipped on its head. And what do we mean by that? Every premise about the it business is changing. We talk about a lot. Amazon has ch has turned the data center into an API. It's a very powerful concept. I think you're right on. It's the, it's the iPhone of the enterprise. Yes. That's. They're not like hall monitors checking about every application in the app store. >>That's not the point. The point is it's a consistent environment that is controlled by Amazon, very tightly controlled and it works. You know what you're getting, and it's innovating at a, at a breakneck speed. It's antithetical to everything we know about it. So, you know, you've been asking people all week what the bumper sticker is on the show. I can't wait to go back and see some of those, but I mean, this is the trend and the trend is your friend, or it might be your enemy. So when you say who's going to be able to compete with Amazon, I think Martin of eucalyptus set a set of best historically in economics. There's always people that will rent and there's always people that will buy. And the, the old guard is Amazon calls them is not going to take this lying down, but the old guard has to replicate an Amazon's model. How does it do that? It's got to create an open entry into its system. That's equivalent in terms of simplicity and power to the Amazon API. Number one, number two is it's got to be able to demonstrate to the developer community that you can inter-operate across those platforms in a way that you can get critical mass, the same way that you can with Amazon. And that's going to be the, the massive battle that's going to take place in the cloud Wars. >>I mean, I think one of the things that's interesting is that the word lock-in was something that we were talking on day one, especially in the enterprise, that's a word that gets kicked around. And you know, my feeling has always been lock-in is not necessarily a bad thing if it's, if you can, if you can have switching costs that aren't super high locking means, switching costs are so high that you can switch. I can switch from my iPhone to Android anytime I want. But the problem is that iPhone is a better product. It's integrated with the apps and I can buy all the same apps. So that's a very key thing. And I think the switching costs here are a lot higher and I, there are Amazon >>On the record. Amazon is the mother of all lock-ins. I mean, this is a beautiful business model and here's, what's so great about it is the customers. You heard them this week say if you took AWS away from me, I would burst out into tears. So Amazon's, I think brilliant challenge here is to how do they keep innovating? They're doing that, but how do they keep lowering prices? So people don't want to leave. So that that's, that's what I see as the disruptive piece. It, >>Well, being in this business all these years were, you know, a little bit older than some of the young guns were on the cube to me lock-in is moving right? You see, um, in the old days, huge capital outlays for, uh, for equipment, you had maintenance, all this stuff was locking. Now the lock-in shifting to OPEX and agility. So what's happening is Amazon is basically commoditizing the old way of how people would spend and shifting the lock-in to the op X side of the equation. I call it the heroin addiction where, Hey, it's so low cost and the agility is the lock-in. So the functionality of agility guarantees the lock. And I think that's what Amazon's betting the ranch on is that when can go to time to market, to value quicker, that is inherently a lock-in, that's a quote, user experience to use my iPhone example. >>If I'm going to have a good experience making money as an enterprise, that's good. That's good. Lock-in right. So it's all a relative term in that the lock-in has been around. I mean, they call it differentiation, but at the end of the day, I think Amazon's got a good, good play there. But like I said, I don't think Amazon has cracked the it nut yet. I think they're going to have some it penetration. And this is top of the first ending, as we were saying, the enterprise, it nut enterprise, it is not, has not. The nut has not been cracked. What >>Do you need to see to be convinced? Well, >>I just think the stack is going to be the, the same paradigm of having an integrated staff. I just want to see different levels of services because the table stakes for the enterprise are different. There's certain compliance issues and you know, they're checking the boxes right now. This is the ground game I was referring to earlier. Amazon is going to start checking the boxes. Oh, VDI, we got workspaces, I got this. I'm going to check the boxes. Ultimately the list is just too long to win everyone. Right? So I think, you know, so it's going to be an opportunity. I think OpenStack has a great hope. I think VMware and IBM and HP are big players. And I think OpenStack needs to step up its game and have a big player, pop down a billion dollars with like IBM David Linux and saying, look at OpenStack, we're behind it. And rally the troops. And that's all >>Sorry, go back to the lock-in comments because this is critical because to me, the definition of lock-in is it's, it's, it's less economically attractive to leave than it is to stay. And that's what Amazon is doing. They're making it, making it more economically attractive to stay than they are to leave. Here's why that's so important. The more people that they pull, and this is why Carlisle and back said, you know, we can't lose to the bookseller. And you said that because they know the old guard knows that if people go to Amazon, they're not going to leave. Cause it's going to be less attractive for them to leave than it is to stay. So there's a huge battle over that trillion dollar Tam. So the key is John that OpenStack and IBM and VMware and Oracle and all the others have to make it economically attractive to not go into Amazon. And that is the battle. >>One of the things that's very clear, Dave, that's coming out of the show for me. My bumper sticker is dev ops wins. And I think what that mean by that is, is that, and we refer to the cloud being in the top of the first inning, meaning really everything else was spring training. He used the baseball metaphor in the sense that this is all that this is all activation of a paradigm shift. That is so game-changing the dev ops concept of software developers. Writing code that trickles into a fully integrated stack is really amazing, right? This really replaces the pain of provisioning hardware cost of it, cost of the infrastructure. That stuff is that that is the real value of the crowd. So if you take the dev ops concepts, which to me is already a winner and put that into the enterprise market, that's going to be cloud ops. >>So to me, I think the opportunity right now for anyone who wants to with Amazon in my opinion, is to go out there and say, look it, you got to win the software developers, look at what a Mongo DB has done. We had Elliot the co-founder on, they made it good goodness for the developer. Whoever can do that for the enterprise will win. And I don't think that there's a direct one-to-one mapping of what dev ops is. It is in the Amazon world. And what dev ops is in the enterprise. I think that's more cloud ops because the guys that are provisioning EMC drives dealing with IBM and red hat a little bit slower, I would say in terms of deployment, they used to the big slow cycles. Dev ops guys are pushing code a little bit more, you know, nimble startup, clean sheet of paper, you know, Uber, Airbnb, those younger generations, but this is a generational shift and it's happening and it's all on the software. So to me, I think dev ops speaks to, >>I wanna, I wanna, uh, keep this thread going. So, so what's the playbook to, for the old guard to compete, you're saying you gotta, uh, attract developers, but that's not enough. You need a cloud platform, right? So take, for example, VMware, VMware announces, you know, hybrid cloud infrastructure as a service it's early days, they need a cloud platform. So what else do you need to compete? You need developers. You need, >>You gotta have, you gotta have trust and security, right? So here's the thing. Developers care about success of creativity for the solutions. And what Amazon's demonstrate is the time to value is the key thing. You hear people, whether they're startups or big company get to some value, double down on success, figure out how to be agile succeed. Fast, move on with the problem right now is that developers are like deer in the headlights. They go where the action is, right? And it's always been that way. I think OpenStack to me is an opportunity or whatever platform that is. Someone's got to get a big anchor tenant in that platform needs to step up and be the galvanizing force and create some solidarity around that approach for it. That is an opportunity for VMware. I think Pat Gelsinger is probably best positioned to do that. Pivotal is a, is a genius, but I think ultimately they might be biting off more than they can chew. So I worry about, you know, their car not being fast enough right now in, in the game. So, you know, worry about pivotal there. But I think VMware probably is a better position there. So they need, they need, they need infrastructure. They need this middleware, which is database queuing notifications. A lot of that, a lot of the stuff you see Amazon doing at the top of the stack managed services. So that's streaming data and all the goodness on them, >>Developers, you got to have a cloud platform at scale, you gotta have trust and security. I would add to that. You got to do things that Amazon's not going to do. So for instance, we heard all week, Amazon doesn't want to do one-offs. They don't like to do customization, whatever they do. They want everybody to benefit from that enterprise enterprises want customization. We've talked about this, John. That's why, for instance, you, you find that some of the customers won't go into Amazon, not because the security is bad, it's just different. And Amazon's not going to change the security profile. They're not going to change the policy. So enterprise, uh, players, the old guard, so to speak must continue to do custom stuff. One-off that Amazon won't do, but here's the bet that Amazon's making Amazon's that its ecosystem will over time be able to do those one-offs for the customer and put a buffer in between the Amazon platform and the customer. So that's, that's really interesting. >>Yeah. I would also add to that, that the main differentiation where Amazon and other potential people to compete with Amazon is scale, scale matters. Scale gives leverage. Amazon has proven that, and they're trying to use that leverage now to catapult into other markets for market expansion. So that's one thing. So, so, so the, so for the enterprise in particular, one area we watch heavily, I see two major trends. I see a cloud service that's similar to Amazon. It smells like an integrated stack, but it just has different feature sets tailored for the enterprise. That's more of that's the hybrid cloud clearly hybrid cloud is a winner. Amazon is not using that term hybrid cloud. And he's a hybrid ID, which is basically a head fake. It really means hybrid cloud. So that's hybrid cloud. The second thing is I think you're going to see data centers be Amazon in a box. >>So that's why I like io.com because io.com has essentially built pods and containers and essentially is cloud in a box. And I think shipping data centers is the future. And I think what I like about IO and here's why I'm interested in double clicking on that company is that they're basically shipping data centers. You've got Goldman Sachs, big companies. So IO IO has got, got that going on. And then you've got hybrid cloud. And then the third thing that's really relevant is that you started to see the vertical integration Dave of, of services. Look at CSC, CSC bought service mesh. We had, uh, this guy Jeff on earlier with, uh, that company is doing all the user experience they're offering full end-to-end full-stack developers for essentially web apps. Okay. That is a shift to what I call the dev ops world. Those two things. You're going to see these industries where it's ISV and integrators are kind of vertically integrated. They're going to actually build their own stuff. And that's going to be the, I think the innovation on the channel side. So the channel is up for grabs. Everything's being disrupted >>Battlefield. We've got developers, we've got cloud scale, we've got trust and security. We've got customization. And I'm going to add another one, which is the ecosystem, which is essentially your, you know, in part in your channel, but got to have a strong ecosystem, want to pick up this discussion with you and getting the hook. >>So the Dave wants to of what's the bumper sticker for the show. Give me the Dave Volante bumper sticker. You. We heard everyone said a story here. Um, >>What AWS, the, the trend is your friend, >>My bumper sticker. I'm going to throw a hashtag in there. The hashtag next generation computer revolution to me, this is the next generation computer revolution, total transformative hashtag next generation computer revolution. I think Amazon's leading the charge and I think they're going to shift the sands and everyone else is going to have to adjust. And that's good for everyone, Dave and the market wins a ruin murky on Hortonworks tweeted. Hey, we'd love it. Market expansion, rising tide floats all boats. And I think that's all >>Ultimately ultimately billion dollar Tam Gianna. I'm thrilled to a >>Part of covering that with the cube. I want to thank everyone for watching. Thanks. This is the day three wrap up this acute exclusive coverage from Amazon web services. Want to thank the crew here? All the guys back at the ranch. Kristen, Nicole art Lindsay, Mark Hopkins. Andrew, we got mic. We got Alex. Good job, Jeff Fricks do, uh, everyone. Jeff Kelly. We have the analysts. Come on. We've got this show covered, Dave. I think we fished this pond out. So look for us next to HP. Discover will be there. And, uh, December the week of the 10th or 11th and 12th, we'll be doing the OpenStack summit as well. Look for that. When that gets announced, um, my maybe doing the node node summit in December, we got also the spark summit and MIT event in January. The security event would be at Berkeley. We're going to all these great events tubes out of control. We've got storage, big data now cloud, we look for a lot of research. You can see a lot of cloud coverage coming out on the research. So I looked for that over the next few months, I will get bon.org. Thank you for watching. Well, that's a wrap day three exclusive coverage. This is the cube. I'm John fryer with Dave Volante here in Las Vegas until next time take care.