(upbeat electronic music) >> Okay thanks, Adam, and the studio. We're here on the floor in Cloud City, right in the middle of all the action, the keynotes are going on in the background. It's a packed house. I'm John Furrier. Dave Vellante's on assignment, digging in, getting those stories. He'll have the analysis, he'll be back on theCUBE, but I want to welcome Chloe Richardson, who has been holding down the main stage here in Cloud City with amazing content that she's been hosting. Chloe, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, and kicking it off day two with me. >> No, not at all. Thank you for having me! It's very exciting! I love what you guys have got over here, very fun! >> We're inside theCUBE. This is where all the action is, and also, Cloud City is really changing the game. If you look at what's going on here in Cloud City, it's pretty spectacular. >> No, I mean, the atmosphere is absolutely palpable. Isn't it? You can just feel it. People walk in and see what the future looks like for the telecoms industry. Very exciting. >> And you've been doing a great job on the main stage, we're really loving your content. Let's get into some of the content here. After the keynotes are going on, we're going to have DR maybe fly by the set later, we're going to check that out. But let's check out this videotape. This is TelcoDR. You got to check out this reel, and we'll be right back, and we'll talk about it. (smooth electronic music) >> TelcoDR burst onto the global telecom scene this year, making headlines for taking over the huge Erickson space at MWC 21, and for building Cloud City in just a hundred days. But why did the company go to such trouble? And what is their unique offering to the telecoms industry? And what drives their dynamic CEO, Danielle Royston, or DR, as everyone calls her? Cloud City Live caught up with DR, away from the hustle and bustle of the city to find out. (upbeat instrumental music) >> Hi, I'm Danielle Royston, coming to you from beautiful Barcelona! I'm here for MWC 21. About a hundred days ago, I decided to take over the iconic Erickson booth to turn it into Cloud City. Cloud City has over 30 vendors, and 70 demos, to introduce telco to what I think is the future for our industry. We're going to have three awesome experiences. We're going to talk about the new subscriber experience. We're going to talk about what's in store for the new network, and the future of work. And I'm really excited to create a community, and invite awesome telco executives to see this new feature. It's been a really tough 18 months, and we didn't know what MWC 21 was going to be like in terms of attendance. And so from the get-go, we planned this amazing experience that we call Cloud City Live. At Cloud City Live, we have two main components. We have the speaker series, where we have over 50 speakers from Amazon, Google, Microsoft, as well as CSPs, and awesome vendors, talking about the public cloud in telco. The second part of Cloud City Live is theCUBE. Think of this as like an ESPN desk of awesome tech interviews focused on telco and the public cloud, hosted by John furrier and Dave Vallente. Dave and John are going to talk to a variety of guests focused on telco in the public cloud. It's a great way for our virtual participants to feel like they're at the show, experiencing what's going on here. So excited to have them as part of the Cloud City booth. There's a ton of innovation going on in telco, and 20 years ago, Elon Musk set on his mission to Mars. I, like Elon Musk, am on a quest to take telco to the public cloud. Every year at MWC, there's always a flurry of announcements, and this year is no different. At this year's MWC, Totogi, a startup that I invested $1,000,000 in, will be launching. Totogi is introducing two products to the market this week at MWC. The first is at planetary scale charger. More than a charger, it's an engagement, coupling your network data with charging information to drive subscriber engagement, and doubling your ARPU. The second product that Totogi is introducing is a planetary scale BSS system, built on top of the TM Forum Open APIs. Both of these products will be available for viewing in the virtual booth, as well as on the show floor. The public cloud is an unstoppable mega trend that's coming to telco! I'm super excited to bring to you the vendors, the products, the demonstrations, and the speakers, both to people here in Barcelona, and virtually around the world! (upbeat instrumental music) Well, that was a fascinating insight into the origins of TelcoDR, why public cloud is going to truly disrupt the telecoms industry, and why DR herself is so passionate about it. If you'd like to find out more, come and see us at Cloud City. (groovy electronic music) >> Okay, thanks. Just rolling that reel. Chloe, I mean, look at that reel, I mean, DR, Danielle Royston, she's a star. And I've seen a lot of power players in the industry. She's got guts and determination, and she's got a vision, and she's not just, you know, making noise about telco and cloud, there's actually a lot of real good vision there! I mean, it's just so impressive. >> No, it really is. And for me, it's almost like the next moonshot. It's the moonshot of the telco world! She's innovative, she's exciting. And if we've learned anything over the last 18 months, it's that we need that in this industry, to grow for the future of the industry. So, so exciting. I think she's a real inspiration! >> And I love the fact that she's so takes the tiger by the tail. Because the telco industry is being disrupted, she's just driving the bus here. And I remember, I did a story on Teresa Carlson, who was with Amazon Web Services, she was running the public sector, and she was doing the same exact thing in that public sector world in DC, and around the world. She opened up regions in Bahrain, which as a woman, that was an amazing accomplishment. And she wasn't just a woman, she was just a power player! And she was an exceptional leader. I see DR doing the same thing, and people aren't going to like that, I'll tell you right now. People are going to be like, "Whoa, what's going on here?" >> Now of course, it's always that way we pioneers though, isn't it? At the time, people thinking what is going on here, we don't like change, why are being shaken up? But actually, afterwards, in retrospect, they think, "Oh, okay. I see why that happened, and we needed it." So, really exciting stuff. >> Making things happen, that's what we're doing here on theCUBE. Obviously, the main stage's doing a great job. Let's go check out this highlight reel. If you're watching and you missed some of the action, this is obviously the physical event back since 2019 in February, but there's also a hybrid event, a lot of virtual action going on. So, you got theCUBE Virtual, you got a lot of content on virtual sites. But in person here, we're going to go show you a highlight reel from what we did yesterday, and what was happening around the show. Enjoy this quick highlight reel from yesterday. (groovy electronic music) (cheerful instrumental music) (groovy electronic music) Okay. We're back here in theCUBE. We're on the main floor out here with Chloe, who is emceeing, hosting, and driving the content on the Cloud City main stage. Chloe, it's been great here. I mean so far, day one, I was watching your presentations and fireside chats you've been hosting. Awesome content. I mean, people are like jazzed up. >> Yeah, no, for sure. We had Scott Brighton on yesterday, who was our opening keynote on the live stage, and his session was all about the future of work, which is so relevant and so pertinent to now. And he talked about the way it's changing. And in 10 years, it's going to be a trillion dollar industry to be in the cloud at work. So, really interesting! I mean, yeah, the atmosphere here is great. Everyone's excited. It's new content everyday. And that's the thing, it's not stale content! It's stuff that people want to hear. People are here for the new hot trends, the new hot topics. It's very exciting. >> Yeah, the next big thing. And also it's a fiscal event, so since 2019, this Mobile World Congress has been a massive event, and hasn't happened since February, 2019. That's a lot of time that's elapsed in the industry because of COVID, and people are glad to be here. But a lot of stuff's changed! >> Yeah. It's a different world, right? I mean, two years in the telco industry is like a hundred years elsewhere. Everything has changed! Digital transformation migration, obviously cloud, which is what we're talking about over here at Cloud City Live. I'm wondering though, John, I'd like to pick your brains on something. >> John: Sure. >> It has changed in the last two years. We know that! But what about the future of Mobile World Congress? How do you see it changing in the next few years. >> Oh, man. That's a great question. I mean, my observation, I've been coming to the show for a very long time, over a decade and a half, and it's been a nerdy show about networks, and telecom, which is basically radios, and wireless, and then mobile. But it's very global, a lot of networks. But now it's evolving! And many people are saying, and we were talking on theCUBE yesterday, Dave Vellante was commenting, that this show is turning into a consumer like show. So CES is the big consumer electronics show in the US, in Las Vegas every year. This show has got a vibe, because of all the technology from the cloud players, and from the chips, getting smaller, faster, cheaper, more capability, lower power. So people look at the chips, the hardware. It's less about the speeds and feeds, it's more about the consumer experience. We got cars. I was talking to a guy yesterday, he said, "Vehicle e-commerce is coming." I went, "What the hell his vehicle e-commerce?" And you could be on your app driving down the freeway and go, "Hey, I want some food." Instead of having it delivered to you, you order it, you pick it up. So that's kind of what can be happening now in real time, you can do all kinds of other things. So, a lot of new things are happening. >> Yeah, I think so. Do you see that as another disruption for the industry? That is, the fact that it's moving to be more consumer focused? Is there anything we should be worried about in that space? >> Well, I think the incumbents are going to lose their positions. So I think in any new shift, new brands come in out of nowhere. And it's the people that you don't think about. It's the the company that you don't see. (audience in background applauding) And we got DR on the main stage right here, look at this! We saw her walk out with the confidence of a pro. >> Chloe: Yeah, for sure. >> She just walked out there, and she's not afraid. >> Well, as she said in her video, she is ready to wake them up! And you can see as soon as she walks out, that is what she intends to do today. >> I love her mojo. She's got a lot of energy. And back to the show, I mean, she's just an example of what I was saying. Like in every market shift, a new brand emerges. >> Chloe: Yep. >> I mean, even when Apple was tainted, they were about to shut down, they were going to run out of cash, when Steve Jobs brought back Apple, he consolidated and rebooted the company, the iPad was a seminal, iPod, a seminal moment. Then the iPhone, and just, the rest is history. That kind of disruption is coming. You're going to see that now. >> Oh, it's exciting though, isn't it? To be future ready, rather than future proof! But actually I wanted to ask you something as well, because we are seeing all these cloud players getting hot under the collar about telco. Why are they so excited? What's the buzz about wire, as you're on AWS and Google Cloud, why do they want to have a slice of the pie? >> Well, I think they're hot and heavy on the fact that telco is a ripe opportunity. And it used to be this boring, slow moving glacier. It's almost like global warming now, the icebergs are melting, and it's going to just change. And because of the edge, 5G is not a consumer wireless thing, it's not like a better phone. It's a commercial app opportunity, because it's high bandwidth. We've all been to concerts, or football games, or sporting events where a stadium is packed. Everyone gets bars on their wifi, but can't get out. Can't upload their picture to Instagram. Why? Because it's choking them on the network. That's where 5G solves a problem. It brings a lot of bandwidth, and that's going to bring the edge to life, and that's money. So when you got money, and greed, and power, changing hands, if it's on the table, and the wheel's spinning, it could be double zero, or it could be lucky seven. You don't know! >> Oh, for sure. And that's certainly enough to get all the big players hot and bothered about getting involved! And I suppose it circles back to the fact that DR is really leading the charge, and they're probably thinking, "Okay, what's going on here? This is different. We want something new." You did notice it, OpenRAN is something that we've been talking about over the last day or so. We've had quite a few of us speakers over here at Cloud City Live mention OpenRAN. What is it all about, Don? Because why all the buzz if 5G is such a hot topic? Why are we get excited about it? >> That's a great thing. The 5G certainly will drive the main trend, for sure. OpenRAN is essentially an answer to the fact that 5G is popular, and they need more infrastructure. So open source, the Linux Foundation, has been the driver for most of the open source software. So, they're trying to make open software, and open architectures, to create more entrepreneurial activity around hardware, and around infrastructure, because we need more infrastructure, we need more antennas, we need more transceivers, we need more devices. That could be open. So in order to do that, you got to open up the technology, and you want to minimize the licensing, and minimize a lot of these, you know, proprietary aspects. >> What did we look at? So on Wednesday, we've got a great keynote from Phillip Langlois, who is CEO and founder of P1 Security. And he's coming to talk to us about cybersecurity within the cloud, and within telco. So you just mentioned that OpenRAN is all about having open source, about having that space where we can share more efficiently and easily more easily. What does that mean for security though? Is it at risk? >> I think it's going to increase the value of security, and minimize the threats. Because open source, even though it's open, the more people that are working on it, the more secure it could be. So yes, it could be more open in a sense that could be explored by hackers, but open can also protect. And I think we've seen open source, and cloud in particular, be more secure. Because everyone said, cloud is not secure, open source is insecure. And as it turns out, when the collective hive minds of developers work on things, it gets secure. >> And it is interesting, isn't it? Because we have seen that there has been an uptick in cyber security threats, but actually I was speaking to some leaders across various industries, and particularly in tech, and they were saying, actually, there's not been an uptick in attempted threats, there's been an uptick because with this open-source environment, we are able to track them, and measure them, and defend more efficiently. So actually, they're being batted away. But the number is probably the same as it always was, we just didn't know about them before we had this open source environment. >> There's more money in threats, and there's more surface area. So as the tide rises, so to the threats. So on a net basis, it's more, because there's more volume, but it's pretty much the same. And look it, there's money involved, they are organized. There's a business model on attacking and getting the cash out of your bank, or ransomware is at an all time high. >> Yes! >> So this is like a big problem, and it's beyond the government. It's around individual freedom. So, security is huge. And I think open source and cloud are going to be, I think, the answer to that. >> Yeah, for sure. And it's, again, about collaboration, isn't it? Which we talk about all the time, but without collaboration, the industries are going to have to work together to promote this environment. So yeah, it should be good to talk with Phillip on Wednesday. >> I'd just say on security, don't download that PDF, if you don't know who it came from. The phishing is always good. Well, we got some great stuff coming up. We're going to have a great day. We got a video here of Mobile World Live. We're going to show this next segment, and we're going to toss it to a video. And this is really about to give the experience, Chloe, for people who aren't here. To get a feel for what's going on in Barcelona, and all the action. And if you look at the video, enjoy it. >> Hi, I'm Daniel Royston, CEO and founder of TelcoDR. But you can call me DR! Ready for some more straight talk about telco? It's go time! Let's do it. Holy shit! It sure is a great time to be a tech company! I mean, if you're Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Grab, Twilio, Door Dash, or Uber, life's pretty great! Just look at these stock prices over the past five years, with their shareholder value going up and to the right. Totally amazing! But where's telco? Dare I add our stocks to this awesome chart? Let's compare these fabulous tech stocks to AT&T, Vodafone, Telefonica, TIM, America Movil, and Zain Group. Huh. Not so great, right? Yep. I'm talking directly to you, senior telco execs. I'm here to wake you up! Why is it that Wall Street doesn't see you as tech? Why aren't CSPs seen as driving all the tech change? Why is it always Apple, Amazon and Google who get the big buzz? But more importantly, why isn't it you? Before I came to this industry, I always thought of carriers as tech companies. I gave more of my money to AT&T than to Apple, because I really cared about the quality of the network. But I also wondered why on earth the carriers allowed all the other tech companies to take center stage. After spending the last few years in telco, I now understand why. It's because you are network people, you are not customer people! I get it. You have the security blanket. You're a network oligopoly. It's crazy expensive to build a network, and it's expensive to buy spectrum. It takes operational chops to run a killer network, and it takes great skill to convince Wall Street to finance all of it. You telco execs are amazing at all those things. But because you focus on the network, it means you don't focus on the customer. And so far, you haven't had to. Every Telco's KPI is to be less shitty than their next competitor. You don't have to be the best. Just don't be last. Everyone else's NPS is in the thirties too. Their mobile app ratings are just as terrible as yours. Everyone's sucks at customer sat. And it's widely acknowledged and accepted. Let's talk about the cost of that. The cost is not measured on market share against other MNOs. The cost is measured in lost ARPU that the tech guys are getting. Everyone knows about the loss of texting to WeChat, WhatsApp, and the other OTT apps. But it is not just texting. The total adjustable market, or TAM, of the mobile app disruptors is huge! Instead of remaining network focused, you should be leveraging your network into a premier position. And because you're network people, I bet you think I'm talking about coercive network leverage. That is not what I'm talking about! I'm talking about love, customer love. There is one thing the highly valued tech companies all have in common. They all crush it on customer love! They look at every interaction with the customer and say, how do we make the customer love this? Like Netflix has easy monthly cancellation, Amazon does no questions asked returns, Uber gives users a real time view into driver rating and availability. Compare those ideas to the standard telco customer interaction. The highly valued tech companies don't have the network oligopoly to fall back on like you do. To survive, they must make customers love them. So, they focus on it in a big way! And it pays off. Their NPS is close to 70, and they have app ratings of 4.5 or higher. A far cry from your thirties NPS, and app ratings of 3.5. If you want to have those huge tech multiples for yourself, you have to start thinking about these guys as your new competition, not the other telcos in your market. The crazy thing is, if you give up using your network as a crutch, and put all of your focus on the customer, the network becomes an asset worth more than all the super apps. Let's step back and talk about the value of super apps, and becoming customer centered! Retooling around the customer is a huge change, so let's make sure it's worth it. We aren't talking about 25% improvement. I'm going to show you that if you become customer centric, you can double your ARPU, double your valuation multiples, and drive big shareholder value, just like the tech companies on that chart! Now let's talk about the customer focused super apps. There are hundreds of companies in a variety of categories vying for your subscribers' disposable income. Movies, food delivery, financial services. Who are they? And why does Wall Street give them such high valuations and like them so much? Well first, look at what they are telling Wall Street about their TAM. They broadcast ridiculously huge TAMs that are greater than the telco TAMs. You know, who should have a ridiculously huge TAM? You! Hello? What I'm saying is that if you got what's yours, you double in size. And if you take the TAMs they throw around, you'd be five times as big. When I think about the opportunity to double ARPU, without having to double the cap ex to build out the network, I say to myself, hell yeah! We should totally go do it, and do whatever it takes to go get it. For example, let's talk about Grab. Grab is a Southeast Asian super app company with an expected $40 billion valuation. Grab's customer focus started in Rideshare, but then leveraged its customer love into wallet deliveries, hospitality, and investing. Their ARPU is now larger than a Telco's ARPU in countries where they compete, and they have a higher valuation than those telcos too. Imagine if you could combine a great user experience with the valuable services that helped grow your ARPU. That would be huge! So, how do you build a super app? I bet right about now, you're wishing you had a super app. Everyone wants a super app! A lot of money has been unsuccessfully spent by telcos trying to build their own. I bet you're saying to yourself, "DR, your pie in the sky sounds great, but it has no chance of success." Well, I'm betting things are about to change. There is a public cloud startup called to Totogi that is going to help carriers build world-class super apps. To have a successful super app, there is one key metric you need to know. It is the KPI that determines if your super app will be a success or a flop. It's not about the daily active users. It's not the average order value. It's not even gross merchandise value. It's all about the frequency of use per day by the user. That's the metric that matters. How many have you used that metric in your telco apps? Do you have a team driving up user app interactions every day? Most telco apps are used for top-up, or to check a bill. This is a huge missed opportunity. Super app companies excel at building great experiences and driving a huge amount of interactions. They have to, their business depends on it. They have to be customer focused. They have to keep bringing the user back to the app, every day, multiple times a day. And you know what? They do a great job. Customers love their super apps. They have great user experiences. Like Apple credit cards, no information required application process. They have high net promoter scores because of customer friendly policies. Like how Door Dash retroactively credits fees when you move to a better plan. And they have great app store ratings, because they do simple things, like remember your last order, or allow you to use the app, rather than forced you to call customer service. Customers of successful super apps love it when new services are added. And because of the customer love, every time something is added to the app, customers adopt it immediately. New services drive frequent daily user interactions. So our problem in telco is we have an app that is only open once per month, not multiple times per day. And without frequent opens, there is no super app. Hm, what do we have in telco that we could use to help with this problem? I wonder. While you don't currently have a mobile app that subscribers use multiple times a day, you have something that's 10 times better! You have a network. Subscribers already interact with your network. 10 times more frequently than any user with any of the super apps. But telcos don't leverage those interactions into the insanely valuable engagements they could be. Worse, even if you wanted to, your crappy, over customized, on-premise solutions, make it impossible. Thankfully, there's this new tech that's come around, you may have heard of it, the public cloud. When you bring the enabling technology of the public cloud, you can turn your network interactions into valuable super app interactions. And there's a special new startup that's going to help you do it, Totogi! Totogi will leverage all those network interactions, and turn them into valuable customer interactions. Let me repeat that. Totogi will leverage all those network interactions, and turn them into valuable customer interactions. Totogi allows the carrier to leverage its network, and all the network interactions, into customer engagement. This is something that super apps don't have, but will wish they did. But this magic technology is not enough. Telcos also need to move from being network focused to being customer focused. Totogi enables telcos to chase exciting revenue growth without that annoying, massive cap ex investment. Totogi is going to help you transform your sucky mobile apps, with the crappy customer ratings, into something your subscribers want to open multiple times a day, and become a platform for growth. I'm so excited about Totogi, I'm investing $100,000,000 into it. You heard me right. $100,000,000. Is this what it feels like to be SoftBank? I'm investing into Totogi because it's going to enable telcos to leverage their network interactions into super app usage! Which will lead to an improved subscriber experience, and will give you a massive jump in your ARPU. And once you do that, all those telco valuations will go from down here, (buzzes lips) to up here. And so I've been talking to some folks, you know, checking in, feeling them out, getting their thoughts. And I've been asking them, what do you think about telcos building super apps? And the response has been, "Click. Eh." Everyone says, no way. Telcos can't do it. Zero chance. Total goose egg. (egg cracking) One suggested I build a bonfire with a hundred million dollars, because then at least I wouldn't waste years of my life. Well, I think those people are dead wrong! I do believe that telcos can build super apps and make them super successful. The public cloud is changing all parts of telco, and Totogi and super apps are fundamentally changing the customer relationships. In one month at MWC, people will see what Totogi has to offer, and they will understand why I'm making this bold call. Because Totogi takes the value of the network, and the power of the public cloud, to help telcos move from being network centric, to being customer centric. Boom! If you want to make this transformation and reap all the financial benefits, you will have to compete for customers with a whole new set of players. You will no longer compete with the network focused guys, like the other telcos. Instead, you will be competing against the customer focused companies. These players don't have a network to fall back on like your old competitors, they know they have to make customers love them. Their customer loyalty is so off the charts, their customers are called fans. So if you want that big money, you will have to compete on their turf, and make the customers want to choose you. You need Apple level loyalty. That bar is uber high. We'll have to give up the security blanket of the network, and change. Instead of NPS at the thirties, it needs to be in the seventies. Instead of mobile app ratings in the threes, they need to get five stars. I'm betting big that Totogi will make that possible! I'm going to help you every step of the way, starting with my keynote next month at MWC. Join me, and I'll share the secrets to converting your super valuable network interactions to make your super app a massive success. We're going to have an amazing time, and I can't wait to see you there! >> Okay. We're back here in theCUBE here at Mobile World Congress in Cloud City. I'm John Furrier. Chloe Richardson's filling in for Dave Vellante who's out on assignment. He's out getting all the data out there and getting stories. Chloe, what a great keynote by Danielle Royston. We just heard her involving major action, major pump you up, punch in the face, "Wake the heck up cloud people, cloud is here!" She didn't pull any punches. >> No, I mean the thing is, John, there's trillions of dollars on the table, and everyone seems to be fighting for it. >> And you heard her up there, if you're not on the public cloud, you're not going to get access to that money. It's a free for all. And I think the cloud people are like, they might think they're going to walk right in, and the telco industry is going to just give it up. >> No, of course. >> And it's not going to be, it's going to be a fight! Who will win? >> Who will win, but also who will build the next big thing? (John laughing) >> Someone needs to die in the media conversations. It's always a fight. Something's dead. Something's dead but keeps the living. All that kidding aside, this is really about partnering. Think what's happened is Telco's already acknowledged that they need to change. And the 5G edge conversation, the chip acceleration. Look at Apple. They've got their own processors, Nvidia, Amazon makes their own chips, Intel's pumping stuff out, you've got Qualcomm. You've got all these new things. So, the chips are getting faster, and the software's more open source. And I'm telling you, the cloud is just going to drive that bus right down Cloud Street, and it's going to be in Cloud City everywhere. >> And it's going to be peepin' on the board as it drives down. (John laughing) John, I'm not a stalker, but I have read some of the things that you've written, and one of the things you mentioned that was really interesting was the difference between building and operating. Break it down for me, what does that mean? >> That means basically in mature markets, and growing markets, things behave differently, and certainly economics, and the people, and the makeup, and the mindset. So the telco has been kind of this mature market, it's been changing and growing, but not like radically. Cost optimization, make profit. You know, to install a lot of cable, you got to get the rents out of that infrastructure. And that's kind of gone on for too long. Cloud is a growth market. And it's about building, not just operating. And you've got operators, carriers are operating networks. So you're going to see the convergence of operators and builders coming together. Builders being software developers, new technology, and executives that think about building. And you want people on your team that are going to be, I won't say war time, you know, lieutenants or generals, but people who can handle the pace of change. Because the change and the nature is different. And some people want slow and steady, keep the boat from rocking. But in a growth market, it's turbulent, and the ride might not be quiet, first-class ticket to paradise. It's bumpy, but it's thrilling. >> No, of course. Is it similar to the old sales adage of hunter versus farmer? Are there parallels there? >> Yeah. I mean, there's a mindset. If you have a team of people that aren't knocking down new opportunities and building the next big thing, fixing your house, get your house in order, you know, refactor, reset, reboot, replatform with the cloud, and then refactor your business! If you don't have the people thinking like that, you're probably either going to be taken over, or go out of business. And that's what the telcos with all these assets, they're going to get bought, rolled into a SPAC, Special Purpose Acquisition Company, which is super hot in the United States. A lot of roll-ups going on with private equity. So a lot of these telcos, if they don't refactor, or replatform then refactor, they're going to be toast, and they're going to get rolled up, and eaten up by somebody else. >> Yeah, sure. It's interesting though, isn't it? Because when we think of telco in tech, we often think of, obviously we've got the triad, people, process, technology, and we think, process and technology really to the forefront here. But like you said there, people are also so important because if you don't have this right balance, you're not going to be able to drive that change. We had, obviously, Scott Brighton on the stage yesterday, and after his session, somebody came up to me and just said, "I'm interested to hear what that means for education." So how can we establish this new generation of tech and telco leaders from the grassroots with educational associations, establishments. How can we encourage that? I wonder, is this something that you talk about? >> Yeah. I mean, education's huge, and this highlights the change that telco's now part of. Telco used to be a boring industry that ran the networks, or moving packets around, and mobile was there. But once the iPhone came out in 2007, the life has changed, society has changed, education's changed, how people interact has changed. So, you start to see people now aware of the value. And if you look at during COVID, the internet didn't crash, the telcos actually saved our asses, and everyone survived because the network didn't break. Yeah, we had some bad Zoom meetings here and there, and some teleconferences that didn't go well, but for the most part we survived, and they really saved everybody. So, they should get kudos for that. But now they're dependent upon healthcare, education. People care about that stuff, so now you're going to start to see an elevated focus on what telecom is doing. That's why the edge has got trillions of dollars up for grabs. But education, there's negative unemployment in cybersecurity and in cloud. So for the people who say, "Oh, there's no jobs." Or, "I can't work." That's a bunch of BS, because you can just get online, get on YouTube, and just get a degree. You can get a degree. You can get an Amazon job. It pays a hundred thousand dollars a year! American. You can make a hundred thousand pounds, and be unemployed six months, and then be employed. So negative unemployment means, there's more jobs than people to fill them all, in fact. >> Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that, because I was talking to a cyber security leader who was saying in something, I think there were now 3 million vacancies in cybersecurity. And there's such a skill shortage. There is nobody around to fill it! So it's an interesting problem to have, isn't it? Because it's reversed to what we've been used to for the last few decades! And obviously, telco is in the same space. But what can we do about it do you think, to actually -- >> I think it's going to take leadership, and I'm a big proponent of kids not going to university if they don't have to. Why spend the dough, money, if you don't have to? You can get online. I mean, the data's there. But to me, it's the relationships, the mentorship. You're starting to see a women in tech, and underrepresented minorities in the tech field, where mentorship is more important than curriculum. Community is more important than just going through a linear courseware. Nobody wants to sit online and go through linear courseware. Now, if they have to get a certificate, or degree, and accreditation, no problem. But the communities are out there, so that's a big change over, I'm a big fan of that. And I think people should, you know, get some specialized skills. You can get that online, so why even go to school? So, people are figuring that out. >> For sure. And also, even transferring. I mean, so many skills are transferable nowadays, aren't they, so we could easily be talking to people from other industries, and bringing them into telco, and saying, "Look, bring what you know from your retail background, or your healthcare background, and help us at telco to, again, drive forwards." Just like DR was saying, it's all about the next big thing. >> Well, Danielle is always also driving a lot of change. And if you think about the jobs, and the pedigree of going to a university, oh, Harvard, all the big Ivy Leagues, Oxford in your area. So it's like, if you go to the school like that, and you get a pedigree, you instantly get a job. Now the jobs that are available weren't around five years ago, so there's no like pedigree or track record. There's no like, everyone's equal. >> Yeah. >> So you could, the democratization of the internet now, from a job standpoint, is people are leveling up faster. So it's not about the Ivy League, or the big degree, or silver spoon in your mouth, you've got the entitlement. So you start to see people emerging and making things happen. Entrepreneurship in America, immigrant entrepreneurship. People are billionaires that have no high school diplomas! >> It's interesting you mention that, John, because we can't have more than five years experience in this space, we know that. But in telco, there is a problem. And maybe it's, again, it's a flipped problem where telco recruiters, or talent acquisition leaders, are now asking for kind of 10, 20 years experience when they're sending out job descriptions. So does that mean that we are at fault for not being able to fill all these vacancies? >> I think that's just, I mean I think there's a transition of the new skill set happening, one. But two, I think, you know, to be like a chip engineer, (laughs) you can't learn that online. But if you want to run a cloud infrastructure, you can. But I think embedded systems is an area that I was talking to an engineer, there's a huge shortage of engineers who code on the microprocessors, on the chips. So, embedded systems is a big career. So there's definitely paths you can specialize. Space is another area you've seen a lot of activity on. You see Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk is going to be here on a virtual keynote, trying to go to Mars. And you know, Danielle Royston always says, "What's going to happen first, Mars colony, or telco adopting public cloud?" And some people think Mars will happen first, but. >> What do you think, John? >> I think Telco's going to get cloud. I mean first of all, public cloud is now hybrid cloud, and the edge, this whole internet edge, 5G, is so symbolic and so important, because it's an architectural beachhead. And that's where the trillion dollar baby is. So, the inside baseball, and the inside money, and all the investors are focusing on the edge, because whoever can command the edge, wins all the dollars. So everyone kind of knows, it's a public secret, and it's fun to watch everyone jockey for the positions. >> Yeah no, it really is. But it's also quite funny, isn't it? Because the edge is almost where we were decades ago, but we're putting the control back in the hands of consumers. So, it's an interesting flip. And I wonder if, with the edge, we can really enhance this acceleration of product development, this efficiency, this frictionless system in which we live in. And also, I've heard you say hybrid a few times, John. >> John: Yeah. >> Is hybrid going to be the future of the world no matter what industry you're in? >> Hybrid is everything now. So, we're the hybrid CUBE, we've got hybrid cloud. >> Exactly. >> You got hybrid telco, because now you've got the confluence of online and offline coming together. That is critical dynamic! And you're seeing it. Like virtual reality, for instance, now you're seeing things, I know you guys are doing some great work at your company around creating experiences that are virtual. You got, companies like Roblox went public recently. Metaverse. It's a good time to be in that business, because experiential human relations are coming. So, I think that's going to be powered by 5G. You know, gamers. So, all good stuff. Chloe, great to be with you here on theCUBE, and we're looking forward to seeing your main stage. >> Great. >> And then we're going to send it back to the studio, Adam, and the team. We're waiting for DR to arrive here in Cloud City. And this is theCUBE, from Cloud City, back to you, Adam, and the studio.

(upbeat music) >> Okay, thanks Adam in the studio. We're here on the floor in Cloud City, right in the middle of all the action. The keynotes are going on in the background, it's a packed house. I'm John Furrier. Dave Vellante is on assignment, digging in, getting those stories. He'll have the analysis, he'll be back on theCUBE but I want to welcome Chloe Richardson, who has been holding down the main stage here in Cloud City, with amazing content that she's been hosting. Chloe, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and kicking it up day two with me. >> No, not at all. Thank you for having me. It's very exciting. I love what you guys have got over here, very fun. >> We're inside theCUBE. This is where all the action is. And also the Cloud City is really changing the game. If you look at what's going on here in Cloud City, it's pretty spectacular. >> Know, I mean the atmosphere is absolutely palpable, isn't it? You can just feel as people walk in and see what the future looks like to the Telecoms industry, it's very exciting. >> And you've been doing a great job on the main stage. We've been really loving your content. Let's get into some of the content here. Actually the keynote is going on, we're going to have DR, maybe fly by the set later, we're going to check that up. But let's check out this videotape of, this is TelcoDR. You got to check out this reel and we'll be right back, we'll talk about it. (upbeat music) >> TelcoDR burst onto the global telecom scene this year, making headlines for taking over the huge Erickson's space at MWC21. And for building Cloud City in just a hundred days. But why did the company go to such trouble? And what is the unique offering to the telecoms industry? And what drives their dynamic CEO, Danielle Royston or DR as everyone calls her? Cloud City Live caught up with DR, away from the hustle and bustle of the city to find out. (upbeat music) >> Hi, I'm Danielle Royston, coming to you from beautiful Barcelona. I'm here for MWC21. About a hundred days ago, I decided to take over the iconic Erickson booth to turn it into Cloud City. Cloud City has over 30 vendors and 70 demos to introduce telco to what I think is the future for our industry. We're going to have three awesome experiences. We're going to talk about the new subscriber experience, we're going to talk about what's in store for the new network and the future of work. I'm really excited to create a community and invite awesome telco executives to see this new future. It's been a really tough 18 months, and we didn't know what MWC21 was going to be like in terms of attendance. And so from the get go we plan this amazing experience that we call, Cloud City Live. At Cloud City Live, we have two main components. We have the speaker series where we have over 50 speakers from Amazon, Google, Microsoft, as well as CSPs and awesome vendors talking about the public cloud in telco. The second part of Cloud City Live, is theCUBE. Think of this as like an ESPN desk of awesome tech interviews focused on telco and the public cloud hosted by John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Dave and John are going to talk to a variety of guests, focused on telco and the public cloud. It's a great way for our virtual participants to feel like they're at the show, experiencing what's going on here. So excited to have them as part of the Cloud City booth. There's a ton of innovation going on in telco. And 20 years ago, Elon Musk set on his mission to Mars. I, like Elon Musk, I'm on a quest to take telco to the public cloud. Every year at MWC, there's always a flurry of announcements and this year is no different. At this year's MWC, Totogi, a startup that I invested a hundred million dollars in, will be launching. Totogi is introducing two products to the market, this week at MWC. The first is a planetary scale charger. More than a charger, it's an engagement coupling dual network data with charging information to drive subscriber engagement and doubling your ARPU. The second product that Totogi is introducing, is a planetary scale BSS system built on top of the TM forum, open APIs. Both of these products will be available for viewing in the virtual booth, as well as on the show for. The public cloud is an unstoppable mega trend that's coming to telco. I'm super excited to bring to you, the vendors, the products, the demonstrations, and the speakers, both to people here in Barcelona and virtually around the world. (upbeat music) >> Well, that was a fascinating insight into the origins of TelcoDR, why public cloud is going to truly disrupt the telecoms industry and why DR herself is so passionate about it. If you'd like to find out more, come and see us at Cloud City. (upbeat music) >> Okay, thanks. Just roll on that reel. Chloe, I mean, look at that reel. I mean, DR, Danielle Royston, she's a star and I've seen a lot of power players in the industry. She's got guts and determination, and she's got a vision and she's not just, you know, making noise about telco and cloud, there's actually a lot of real good vision there. I mean, it's just so impressive. >> No, really isn't. And for me, it's almost like the next moonshot. It's the moonshot of the telco world. She's innovative, she's exciting and if we've learned anything over the last 18 months is that we need to in this industry to grow and for the future of the industry. So, it's so exciting. I think she's a real inspiration. >> And I love the fact that she's so, takes a tiger by the tail, because the telco industry is being disrupted. She's just driving the bus here and I remember I did a story on Teresa Carlson, who was with Amazon web services, she was running the public sector and she was doing the same exact thing in that public sector world in DC and around the world. She opened up regions in Bahrain, which as a woman, that was an amazing accomplishment. And she wasn't just a woman, she was just a power player. And she was exceptional leader. I see DR doing the same thing and people aren't going to like that, I'll tell you right now. People are going to be like, whoa, what's going on here? >> And of course, it's always the way we pioneers though, isn't it? At the time people thinking what's going, we don't like change, why are we being shaken up. But actually afterwards, in retrospect, they think, oh, okay, I see why that happened and we needed it. So really exciting stuff. >> Making things happen, that's what we're doing here in theCUBE. Obviously the main stage's doing a great job. Let's go check out this highlight reel. If you're watching and you miss some of the action, this is, I'll see the physical event back since 2019 in February, but there's also a Hybrid event. A lot of virtual action going on. So you got theCUBE virtual, you got a lot of content on virtual sites, but in person here, we're going to go show you a highlight reel from what we did yesterday, what was happening around the show? Enjoy this quick highlight reel from yesterday. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Okay. We're back here in theCUBE. We're the main floor out here with Chloe Richardson, who is emceeing, hosting and driving the content on the Cloud City main stage. Chloe, it's been great here. I mean, so far day one, I was watching your presentations and inspire site chats you've been hosting. Awesome content. I mean, people are like jazzed up. >> Yeah, I know for sure. We had Scott Brighton on yesterday, who was our opening keynote on the live stage. And his session was all about the future of work, which is so relevant and so pertinent to now. And he talked about the way it's changing and in 10 years it's going to be a trillion dollar industry to be in the cloud at work. So really interesting. I mean, yeah, the atmosphere here is great, everyone's excited, there's new content everyday. And that's the thing, it's not stale content. It's stuff that people want to hear. People are here for the new hot trends, the new hot topics. Really exciting. >> Yeah, the next big thing. And also it's a fiscal event. So since 2019, this Mobile World Congress has been a massive event and hasn't happened since February, 2019. That's a lot of time that's elapsed in the industry cause of COVID and people are glad to be here, but a lot of stuff's changed. >> Yeah, it's a different world, right? I mean, two years in the telco industry is like a hundred years elsewhere. Everything has changed, digital transformation migration, obviously cloud, which is what we're talking about over here at Cloud City Live. I'm wondering though John, I'd like to pick your brains on something. >> Sure. >> It has changed in the last two years, we know that, but what about the future of Mobile World Congress? How do you see it changing in the next few years? >> Oh man, that's a great question. I mean, my observation, I've been coming to the show for a very long time, over a decade and a half, and it's been a nerdy show about networks and telecom, which is basically radios and wireless and then mobile. It's very global, a lot of networks, but now it's evolving and many people are saying, and we were talking on theCUBE yesterday, Dave Vellante was commenting that this show is turning into a consumer like show. So CES is the big consumer electronics show in the US, in Las Vegas every year. This show has got a vibe because what's all the technology from the cloud players and from the chips, are getting smaller, faster, cheaper, more capability, lower power. So if you look at the chips, the hardware, it's less about the speeds and feeds. It's more about the consumer experience. You got cars. I was talking to a guy yesterday, he said, "Vehicle e-commerce is coming." I'm like, "What the hell his vehicle e-commerce?" And you could be on your app, driving down the freeway and go, "Hey, I want some food." Instead of having it delivered to you, if you order it you pick it up. So that's kind of can be happening now in real time, you can do all kinds of other things. so a lot of new things are happening. >> Yeah, I think so. Do you see that as another disruption for the industry that is the fact that it's moving to be more consumer focused? Is that anything we should be worried about in that space? >> Well I think the incumbents are going to lose their position. So I think in any new shift, new brands come in out of nowhere. >> For sure. >> And it's the people that you don't think about. It's the company that's not, that you don't see. And we got DR on the main stage right here, look at this. You saw her walk out with the confidence of a pro. She just walked out there and she's not afraid. >> No. Well, as she said in her video, she is ready to wake them up and you can see as soon as she worked out. That is what she intends to do. >> I love her mojo, she's got a lot of energy. And back to the show, I mean, she's just an example of what I was saying. Like in every market shift, a new brand emerges. >> Yep. >> I mean, even when apple was tainted, they were about to shut down, they were going to run out of cash. When Steve Jobs brought back apple, he consolidated and rebooted the company. The iPad was a similar moment, then the iPhone and just the rest is history. That kind of disruption's coming. You're going to see that here. >> Yeah. Oh, it's exciting though isn't it? To be future ready rather than future proof but actually I wanted to ask you something as well, because we are seeing all these cloud players getting hot under the collar about telco. Why are they so excited? What's the buzz about why, as you're in MWS and Google Cloud? Why do they want to have a slice of the pie? >> Well, I think they're hot, hot and heavy on the fact that telco is a ripe opportunity and it used to be this boring, slow moving glacier. >> Okay. >> It's almost like global warming now. The icebergs are melting and it's going to just change and because of the edge, 5G is not a consumer wireless thing. It's not like a better phone, it's a commercial app opportunity cause it's high bandwidth. We've all been to concerts or football games or sporting events where a stadium is packed. Everyone gets bars on their wifi, but can't get out, can't upload their pictures on Instagram. Why? Because it's choking them in the network. That's where 5G solves the problem. It brings a lot of bandwidth and that's going to bring the edge to life and that's money. So when you got money and greed and power changing hands, it's every, it's on the table and the wheel's spinning, and it could be double zero, or it could be lucky seven. You don't know. >> Yeah, for sure. And that's certainly enough to get all the big players hot and bothered about getting involved. And I suppose it circles back to the fact that, DR is really leading the charge and they're probably thinking, okay, what's going on here? This is different, we want something new. You didn't know it's an open run or something that we've been talking about over the last day or so. We've had quite a few of us speakers over here constantly. I've mentioned open run. What is it all about John? Because why all the bars, if 5G is such a hot topic? Why are we getting excited about it? >> That's a great thing. 5G certainly is Google Drive the main trend for sure. OpenRent is essentially an answer to the fact that 5G is popular and they need more infrastructure. So open source, the Linux Foundation has been the driver for most of the open source software. So they're trying to bring software and open architectures to create more entrepreneurial activity around hardware and around infrastructure because we need more infrastructure. We need more antennas, we need more transceivers, we need more devices that could be open. So in order to do that, you got to open up the technology and you want to minimize the licensing and minimize a lot of these, you know, proprietary aspects. >> What if we look at, so on Wednesday, we've got a great keynote from Philippe Langlois, who is CEO and founder of P1 Security. And he's coming to talk to us about cybersecurity within the cloud and within telco. So you just mentioned that. Open mind, it's all about having open source, about having that space where we can share more efficiently and easy, more easily. What does that mean for security though? Is it a risk? >> I think that's going to increase the value of security and minimize the threats. Because open source, even though it's open, the more people that are working on it, the more secure it could be. So yes, it could be more open in sense that could be explored by hackers, but it can be open to also protect. And I think we've seen open source and cloud in particular be more secure because everyone said, "Cloud is not secure, open source is not secure." And as it turns out when the collective hive minds of developers work on things, it gets secure. >> And it is interesting, isn't it? Because we have seen that there has been an uptick in cyber security and threats. But actually I was speaking to some leaders in across various industries and particularly in tech. And they were saying, "Actually there's not been an uptick in attempted threats, there's been an uptick because with this open source environment. We are able to track them and measure them and defend more efficiently. So actually they're being battered away, but the number is probably the same as it always was. We just didn't know about them before we had this open source environment. >> There's more money in threats and there's more surface area. So as the tide rises, so do the threats. So on a net basis it's more because there's more volume, but it's pretty much the same. And look at it, there's money involved, they're organized, there's a business model on attacking and getting the cash out of your bank or ransomwares at an all time high. So this is like a big problem and it's beyond the government, it's our individual freedom. So security its huge and I think open source and cloud are going to be, I think the answer to that. >> Yeah, for sure. And it's again about collaboration, isn't it? Which we talk about all the time but without collaboration that the industries aren't going to have to work together to promote this environment. So yeah, it should be good to talk with Phillip on Wednesday. >> I just say in security, don't download that PDF if you don't know who came from. The fishing is always good. Well, we got some great stuff coming up. We're going to have a great day. We got a video here on Mobile World Live, we're going to show this next segment and we're going to toss it to a video. And this is really about to give the experience Chloe, for people who aren't here, right? >> Yeah. >> To get a feel for what's going on in Barcelona and all the actions. And if you look at the video, enjoy it. >> Hi, I'm Danielle Royston, CEO and founder of TelcoDr, but you can call me DR. Ready for some more straight talk about telco? It's go time, let's do it. Holy shit. It sure is a great time to be a tech company. I mean, if you're Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Grab, Twilio, DoorDash or Uber, life's pretty great. Just look at these stock prices over the past five years with their shareholder value going up into the right. Totally amazing. But where's telco? There I add our stocks to this awesome chart. Let's compare these fabulous tech stocks to AT&T, Vodafone, Telefonica, Tim, America Movil and Zain group. Huh, not so great, right? Yep. I'm talking directly to you senior telco execs. I'm here to wake you up. Why is it that Wall Street doesn't see you as tech? Why aren't CSPs seen as driving all the tech change? Why is it always Apple, Amazon and Google who get the big buzz? But more importantly, why isn't it you? Before I came to this industry, I always thought of carriers as tech companies. I gave more of my money to AT&T and to Apple because I really cared about the quality of the network. But I also wondered why on earth, the carriers allowed all the other tech companies to take center stage. After spending the last few years in telco, I now understand why. It's because you are network people, you are not customer people. I get it, you have the security blanket, you're a network oligopoly. It's crazy expensive to build a network and it's expensive to buy spectrum. It takes operational chops to run a killer network and it takes great skill to convince Wall Street, to finance all of it. You telco execs are amazing at all those things, but because you focus on the network, it means you don't focus on the customer. And so far you haven't had to. Every telco's KPI is to be less shitty than their next competitor. You don't have to be the best, just don't be last. Everyone else's NPS, is in the thirties too. Their mobile app ratings are just as terrible as yours. Everyone's sucks at customer sat and it's widely acknowledged and accepted. Let's talk about the cost of that. The cost is not measured on market share against other MNOs. The cost is measured in lost ARPU that the tech guys are getting. Everyone knows about the loss of texting, to WeChat, WhatsApp and the other OTT apps, but it is not just texting. The total adjustable market or term of the mobile app disruptors is huge. Instead of remaining network focused, you should be leveraging your network into a premier position. And because you're a network people, I bet you think I'm talking about coercive network leverage. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about love, customer love. There is one thing the highly valued tech companies all have in common. They all crush it on customer love. They look at every interaction with the customer and say, "How do we make the customer love this?" Like Netflix has easy monthly cancellation, Amazon does no questions asked returns, Uber gives users a real time view into driver rating and availability. Compare those ideas to the standard telco customer interaction. The highly valued tech companies, don't have the network oligopoly to fall back on like you do. To survive they must make customers love them. So they focus on it in a big way and it pays off. Their NPS is close to 70 and they have app ratings of 4.5 or higher. A far cry from your thirties NPS and app ratings of 3.5. If you want to have those huge tech multiples for yourself, you have to start thinking about these guys as your new competition, not the other telcos in your market. The crazy thing is, if you give up using your network as a crutch and put all of your focus on the customer, the network becomes an asset worth more than all the super apps. Let's step back and talk about the value of super apps and becoming customer centric. Retooling around the customer is a huge change. So let's make sure it's worth it. We aren't talking about 25% improvement. I'm going to show you that if you become customer centric, you can double your ARPU, double your valuation multiples and drive big shareholder value just like the tech companies on that chart. Now let's talk about the customer focused super apps. There are hundreds of companies and a variety of categories vying for your subscriber's disposable income. Movies, food delivery, financial services, who are they? And why does Wall Street give them such high evaluations and like them so much? Well first, look at what they are telling Wall Street about their TAM. They broadcast ridiculously huge TAMs that are greater than the telco TAMs. You know, who should have a ridiculously huge TAM? You. Hello. What I'm saying is that if you got what's yours, you double in size. And if you take the TAAMs they throw around, you'll be five times as big. When I think about the opportunity to double ARPU, without having to double the CapEx, to build out the network, I say to myself, "Hell yeah, we should totally go do it and do whatever it takes to go get." For example, let's talk about Grab. Grab is a southeast Asian super app company with an expected $40 billion valuation. Grab's customer focused started in rideshare, but then leverage its customer love into wallet deliveries, hospitality, and investing. Their ARPU is now larger than a telco's ARPU in countries where they compete, and they have a higher valuation than those telcos too. Imagine if you could combine a great user experience with a valuable services that helped grow your ARPU, that would be huge. So how do you build a super app? I bet right about now, you're wishing you had a super app. Everyone wants a super app. A lot of money has been unsuccessfully spent by telcos trying to build their own. I bet you're saying to yourself, "DR, your pie in the sky sounds great but it has no chance of success." Well, I'm betting things are about to change. There is a public cloud startup called Totogi that is going to help carriers build world class super apps. To have a successful super app, there is one key metric you need to know. It is the KPI that determines if your super app will be a success or a flop. It's not about the daily active users, it's not the average order value, it's not even gross merchandise value. It's all about the frequency of use per day by the user, that's the metric that matters. How many of you use that metric in your telco apps? Do you have a team driving up user app interactions every day? Most telco apps are used for top up or to check a bill. This is a huge missed opportunity. Super app companies excel at building great experiences and driving a huge amount of interactions. They have to, their business depends on it. They have to be customer focused. They have to keep bringing the user back to the app, every day, multiple times a day. And you know what? They do a great job. Customers love their super apps. They have great user experiences like Apple credit cards, no information required, application process. They have high net promoter scores because of customer friendly policies, like how DoorDash retroactively credits fees when you move to a better plan. And they have great app store ratings because they do simple things like remember your last order, or allow you to use the app rather than force you to call customer service. Customers of successful super apps love it when new services are added. And because of the customer love, every time something is added to the app, customers adopt it immediately. New services drive frequent daily user interactions. So our problem in telco is we have an app that is only open once per month, not multiple times per day. And without frequent opens, there is no super app. What do we do we have in telco that we could use to help with this problem? I wonder, why you don't currently have a mobile app that subscribers use multiple times a day. You have something that's 10 times better. You have a network. Subscribers already interact with your network 10 times more frequently than any user with any of the super apps. But telcos don't leverage those interactions into the insanely valuable engagements they could be. Worse, even if you wanted to your crappy over customized on premise solutions, make it impossible. Thankfully, there's this new tech that's come around, you may have heard of it. The public cloud. When you bring the enabling technology of the public cloud, you can turn your network interactions into valuable super app interactions. And there's a special new startup that's going to help you do it, Totogi. Totogi will leverage all those network interactions and turn them into valuable customer interactions. Let me repeat that. Totogi will leverage all those network interactions and turn them into valuable customer interactions. Totogi allows the carrier to leverage its network and all the network interactions into customer engagement. This is something the super apps don't have but will wish they did. But this magic technology is not enough. Telcos also need to move from being network focus to being customer focused. Totogi enables telcos to chase exciting revenue growth without that annoying massive CapEx investment. Totogi is going to help you transform your sucky mobile apps with the crappy customer ratings, into something your subscribers want to open multiple times a day and become a platform for growth. I'm so excited about Totogi, I'm investing $100 million into it. You heard me right, $100 million. Is this what it feels like to be soft bank? I'm investing in Totogi because it's going to enable telcos to leverage the network interactions into super app usage. Which will lead to an improved subscriber experience and will give you a massive jump in your ARPU. And once you do that, all those Telco valuations will go from down here to up here. And so I've been talking to some folks, you know, checking in, feeling them out, getting their thoughts, and I've been asking them, what do you think about telcos building super apps? And the response has been, click, everyone says, "No way, telcos can't do it." Zero chance, total goose egg. One suggested I build a bonfire with 100 million dollars, because then at least I wouldn't waste years of my life. Well I think those people are dead wrong. I do believe that telcos can build super apps and make them super successful. The public cloud is changing all parts of telco and Totogi and super apps are fundamentally changing, the customer relationships. In one month at MWC, people will see what Totogi has to offer, and they will understand why I'm making this bold call. Because the Totogi takes the value of the network and the power of the public cloud to help telcos move from being network centric, to being customer centric. Boom! If you want to make this transformation and reap all the financial benefits, you will have to compete for customers with a whole new set of players. You will no longer compete with the network focus guys like the other telcos, instead you will be competing against the customer focused companies. These players don't have a network to fall back on like your old competitors. They know they have to make customers love them. Their customer loyalty is so off the charts, their customers are called fans. So if you want that big money, you will have to compete on their turf and make the customers want to choose you, you need Apple level loyalty. That bar is uber high. We will have to give up the security blanket of the network and change. Instead of NPS of the thirties, it needs to be in the 70s. Instead of mobile app ratings in the threes, they need to get five stars. I'm betting big that Totogi will make that possible. I'm going to help you every step of the way, starting with my keynote next month at MWC. Join me and I'll share the secrets to converting your super valuable network interactions to make your super app a massive success. We're going to have an amazing time and I can't wait to see you there. >> Okay. We're back here in theCUBE here at Mobile World Congress in Cloud City. I'm John Furrier, Chloe Richardson filling it for Dave Vellante who's out on assignment. He's out getting all the data out there and getting stories. Chloe, what a great keynote by Danielle Royston. We just heard her and while with major action, major pump me up, punch in the face, wake the heck up cloud people, cloud is here. She didn't pull any punches. >> No, I mean the thing is John, there's trillions of dollars on the table and everyone seems to be fighting for it. >> And you heard her up there, if you're not on the public cloud, you're not going to get access to that money. It's a free for all. And I think the cloud people are like, they might think they're going to walk right in and the telco industry is going to just give it up. >> No, of course. >> There's not going to be, it's going to be a fight, who will win. >> Who will win but also who will build the next big thing? >> Someone needs to die in the media conversation, it's always a fight, something's dead, something's dead but keeps the living. All that kidding aside, this is really about partnering. I think what's happened is, telco's already acknowledged that they need to change in the 5G edge conversation, the chip acceleration. Look at Apple, they've got their own processors, Nvidia, Amazon makes their own chips, Intel's pumping stuff out, you've got Qualcomm, you've got all these new things. So the chips are getting faster and the software's more open source and I'm telling you, cloud is just going to drive that bus right down clouds street and it's going to be in Cloud City everywhere. >> And it's going to be peeping on the board as it drives down. John, I'm not a stalker, but I have read some of the things that you've written. And one of the things you mentioned that was really interesting was the difference between building and operating. Break it down for me. What does that mean? >> That means basically in mature markets and growing markets things behave differently and certainly economics and the people and the makeup and the mindset. >> Okay. >> So the telco has been kind of this mature market. It's been changing and growing but not like radically. Cost optimization, make profit, you know, install a lot of cable. You got to get the rents out of that infrastructure and that's kind of gone on for too long. Cloud is a growth market, and it's about building, not just operating and you've got operators, carriers are operating networks. So you're going to see the convergence of operators and builders coming together, builders being software developers, new technology and executives that think about building. And you want people on your team that are going to be, I won't say war time, you know, lieutenants or generals, but people who can handle the pace of change. >> Okay. >> Because the change and the nature is different. And some people want slow and steady, keep the boat from rocking, but in a growth market, it's turbulent and ride might not be quiet, first class ticket to paradise, but it's bumpy, but it's thrilling. >> No, of course. Is it similar to the old sales adage of hunter versus farmer and the parallels? >> Yeah. I mean, the mindset. If you have a team of people that aren't knocking down new opportunities and building the next big thing, fixing your house, get your house in order, you know, refactor, reset, reboot, re platform with the cloud and then refactor your business. If you don't have the people thinking like that, you're probably either going to be taken over or go out of business. And that's what the telco with all these assets, they're going to get bought roll into a SPAC, special purpose acquisition company was a super hot in the United States. A lot of roll ups going on with Private equity. So a lot of these telcos, if they don't refactor or re platform, then refactor, they're going to be toast and they're going to get rolled up and eaten up by somebody else. >> Yeah, sure. It's interesting though, isn't it? Because when we think of telco in tech, we often think of, obviously we've got the triad. People process technology, and we think process and technology really take the forefront here but like you said there, people are also so important because if you don't have this right balance, you're not going to be able to drive that change. We had, obviously Scott Brighton on the stage yesterday and after his session, somebody came up to me and just said, "I'm interested to hear what that means for education." So how can we establish this new generation of tech and telco leaders from the grassroots with educational associations establishments? How can we encourage that? I wonder, is this something that you talk about often? >> Yeah. I mean, education is huge and this highlights the change that telcos now part of. Telco used to be a boring industry that ran the networks, or moving packets around and mobile was there, but once the iPhone came out in 2007, the life has changed, society has changed, education's changed, how people interact has changed. So you start to see people now aware of the value and if you look at the, during the COVID, the internet didn't crash, the telcos actually saved our asses and everyone was, survive because the network didn't break. Yeah, we had some bad zoom meetings here and there and some teleconferences that didn't go well but for the most part we survived and they really saved everybody, my goodness. So they should get kudos for that. But now they're dependent upon healthcare, education, people care about that stuff. So now you're going to start to see an elevated focus on what telecom is doing. That's why The Edge has checked trillions of dollars up for grabs. But education, there's negative unemployment in cybersecurity and in cloud. So for the people who say, oh, there's no jobs or I can't work, that's a bunch of BS because you can just get online, get on YouTube and just get a degree. You can get a degree, you can get an Amazon job, it pays a hundred thousand dollars a year, American. You can make a hundred thousand pounds and be unemployed six months and then be employed. So negative unemployment means there's more jobs than people to fill them qualify. >> Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that because I was talking to a cyber security leader who was saying in some of the things there were now 3 million vacancies in cybersecurity and there's such a skill shortage, there is nobody around to fill it. So it's an interesting problem to have isn't it? Cause it's reversed to what we've been used to for the last few decades and obviously telco is in the same space. What can we do about it? Do you think it will actually bring people in? >> I think it's going to take leadership and I'm a big proponent of kids not going to university, they don't have to. Why spend the dough, money if you don't have to? You can get online. I mean, the data's there, but to me it's the relationships, the mentorship. You starting to see women in tech and underrepresented minorities in the tech field, where mentorship is more important than curriculum. Community is more important than just going through a linear course where nobody wants to sit online and go through linear courseware. Now, if they have to get a certificate or degree and accreditation no problem, but communities are out there. So that's a big change over, I'm a big fan of that and I think people should, you know, get some specialized skills, you can get that online. So why even go to school? So people are figuring that out. >> For sure. And also even transferring, I mean, so many skills are transferable nowadays, aren't there? So we could easily be talking to people from other industries and bringing them into telco and saying, look, bring what you know from your retail background or your healthcare background and help us at telco to again, drive forward, just like DR is saying it's all about the next big thing. >> Danielle, I was also driving a lot of change and if you think about the jobs and a pedigree of going to a university, oh, Harvard, all the big Ivy leagues, Oxford in your area. So it's like, if you go to a school like that and you get a pedigree, you instantly get a job. Now, the jobs that are available, weren't around five years ago. So there's no like pedigree or track record, there's no like, everyone's equal. >> Yeah. >> So you could, the democratization of the internet now is, from a job standpoint is, people are leveling up faster. So it's not about the Ivy league or the big degree or silver spoon in your mouth, you've got the entitlement. So you start to see people emergent and make things happen, entrepreneurship in America, immigrant entrepreneurship. People are billionaires that have no high school diplomas. >> It's interesting you mentioned that John, because we can have more than five years experience in this space, we know that but in telco there is a problem and maybe it's, again it's a flipped problem where, telco recruiters or talent acquisition leaders, are now asking for kind of 10, 20 years experience when they're sending out job descriptions. So does that mean that we are at fault for not being able to fill all these vacancies? >> Well, I mean, I think that's just, I mean, I think there's a transition of the new skill set happening one, but two, I think, you know, you've got to be like a chip engineer, you can't learn that online, but if you want to run a cloud infrastructure, you can. But I think embedded systems is an area that I was talking to an engineer, there's a huge shortage of engineers who code on the microprocessors, on the chips. So embedded systems is a big career. So there's definitely parts, you can specialize, space is another area you've seen a lot of activity on, obviously Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk is going to be here on virtual keynote, trying to go to Mars. And, you know, Danielle Royston always says, who's going to happen first, Mars, colony, or telco adopting public cloud? Some people think Mars will happen first but. >> What do you think John? >> I think telco's going to get cloud. I mean, first of all, public cloud is now hybrid cloud and the edge, this whole internet edge, 5G, is so symbolic and so important because it's an architectural beachhead. >> Yeah. >> And that's where the trillion dollar baby is. >> Of course. >> So the inside baseball and the inside money and all the investors are focusing on the edge because whoever can command the edge, wins all the dollars. So everyone kind of knows it's a public secret and it's fun to watch, everyone jockey for the positions. >> Yeah, know, it really is. But it's also quite funny, isn't it? Because the edge is almost where we were decades ago, but we're putting the control back in the hands of consumers. So it's an interesting flip and I wonder if with the edge, we can really enhance this acceleration of product development its efficiency, this frictionless system in which we live in. And also, I've heard you say hybrid a few times John. >> Yeah. >> Is hybrid going to be the future of the world no matter what industry you're in? >> Hybrid is everything now. So it's, we're the hybrid cube, we've got hybrid cloud. >> Exactly. >> You got hybrid telco, because now you've got the confluence of online and offline coming together. >> Yeah. >> That is critical dynamic, and you seeing it. Like virtual reality for instance, now you seeing things, I know you guys are doing some great work at your company around creating experiences that are virtual. >> Exactly. >> You got, like Roblox went public recently. >> Yeah. >> Metaverse is a good time to be in that business because experiential human relations are coming. So I think that's going to be powered by 5G, you know, gamers. So all good stuff, Chloe, great to be with you here in theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> And we're looking forward to seeing your main stage. >> Great. >> And then we're going to send it back to the studio, Adam and the team, we're waiting for DR to arrive here in Cloud City and this is theCUBE, from Cloud City back to you, Adam in the studio.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hi. >>And welcome to the Cube. Virtual in our coverage of aws reinvent 2020. We have a cube virtual, and I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today, my guest is Shauna Wolverton, executive vice president of product at ZENDESK. And she's coming to us from Oakland, California. Shauna, welcome to the >>Cube. Thanks so much for having me. It is >>It is lovely to be here. How's the weather over there? In Oakland, >>we just suddenly went from summer to winter, which, uh, after the weather we've had is no complaints. >>All right, Well, as as a resident of Melbourne, where we have four seasons in one day, I am very familiar with rapid weather changes. So, uh, hopefully it's not too cold for you, and you get a little bit of nicer weather just before you go fully into winter. Absolutely. Now Zendesk and Amazon have a pretty close relationship is my understanding, and we know that Amazon is famous for its customer center at attitude. Wonderful thing about customers, of course, is that they're never really happy with everything that we have. So zendesk fit in with that with that relationship with Amazon. And how is your approach to customer? >>Yeah. I mean, the relationship we have with them is I'm really excited. Really Have gone all in on our move to the cloud. There are sole provider on DWI run all of our services, um, on AWS. And in addition, we have some great partnerships with, uh, Jacob Amazon Connect, which allows us to provide great telephony and call center services to our customers. We have a great partnership around event bridge and a zwelling app connect. So I think there is a fantastic relationship that we have where we're able to deliver not just our basic services, but to really take advantage of a lot of the services that Amazon on AWS provide s so that we can sort of accelerate our own roadmap and deliver great new features to our customers. >>Now, a lot of people have gone through a pretty similar adoption of the cloud of the moment. Unfortunate reason for doing so. But it certainly has driven the adoption very, very quickly. Uh, zendesk, of course, as you say, has been has been doing this for quite some time. So what have you noticed that stayed the same eso from last year to this year? What were you already doing that you're now noticing? Everyone else's discovering. Actually, this is pretty good. >>Well, you know, I think you know the rumors of of the call center and and the telephone as a channel. Their demise are greatly exactly. I think, um, for us. Much as we're all excited about chat and messaging and all of the different ways that we can connect with our customers, there's something about having a phone number and allowing people to pick up the phone and talk to a human that refuses to go out of style. And so I think, um, you know, our partnership with, uh with Amazon connection has been hugely powerful and even, you know, recently when a lot of this sort of acceleration has picked up, we've seen, um, you know, we saw a customer who had a power failure kind of massive failure of their own phone system. Be able thio, come to us, get, get, connect up and running incredibly quickly and start taking thousands of calls a day and that kind of sort of quick time to value fast start ability for our customers. Just this hugely important. Um, now. But really, you know, that's always been true, right? >>Yeah. I mean, when people want to call you and they want to talk to you, then they're not really happy If they can't get through that and particularly right now, being able to make that human human connection for me, I know that that that's been a really important part of getting through this. I work remotely most of the time. So actually, speaking to humans as we're doing now is is really refreshing change from just seeing everything on on a text screen. Um, so yeah, so it's It's interesting that the phone has actually has been so resilient, even though we were here from Ah, lot of young people say, Oh, we never answer the phone when someone calls, uh, but a lot of people are actually calling into businesses when they wanna make contact or when they when they don't see things on the website. So >>how does >>zendesk help, too, to integrate with what people are doing in their online and digital channels through to what they're doing with phone system. >>Yeah, but I think fundamentally people want their questions answered. One of my favorite studies that we did was around our benchmark study and we talked to Millennials. They said the first place they go to get help to their phone, but when you push it a little deeper, it was clear that they actually didn't know that the phone was for making phone calls. It was just all of the other help centers like like the first way that a lot of people today are looking for. Answers is, you know I wanna google it. And for that you need a really great help center has all that information out there and then you want toe have, you know, communities where people can talk to each other and get help. And then, you know, Mawr and Mawr. We're seeing the rise of messaging as a channel, both through the social channels like WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger Aziz Well, Azaz native messaging kind of ongoing conversations. He you ordered your dinner. It hasn't arrived. It's so great to be able to go into those applications and just message to the business and figure out what's what's going on and get that sort of instantaneous response as well, >>right? And you shared some stats with this regarding how much has moved across to some of these things phone based messaging channels. So tickets coming in has risen about 50% on DCA, paired to some gains on on live chat. So people are really embracing the idea of being about a message, not just individual talking to your friends in the group chat, but actually using that to engage with with the companies that they would normally use websites or or phone. It's like text chat is a thing. >>Yeah, I mean, it was funny to me. You know, I think we're still, uh, in the U. S. Not quite as far along as a lot of our international friends. When I when traveling was a thing that we did, you know, I was always like it was cool to see that there were billboards and ads that had what that phone numbers on them is a really, you know, way that businesses were wanting to engage. I mean, you think about be wanting to be where your customers are today. So many of us, um do have you know what's happened? Wechat and line and vibrant. They're all in our pocket. And being able to provide all of those two businesses is a new way to engage. I think we're finding is hugely powerful, >>right? So with with all of these dynamic changes that have been happening, and it sounds like it's actually just sort of riding the wave of what customers were already doing, we're just doing it just that little bit mawr. But have you noticed any other larger changes? Possibly ones that aren't related thio a pandemic, Just general shifts that have been happening that you've seen in your customer base? >>Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think so much of what we're seeing is that people, uh, in general want answers quickly, and whether it's a phone call is great. And like I said, people are not going to stop calling. But I think people want to make sure less than like, I need a human to have a conversation I want. I want the answer quickly, and that's where we're really focused in both thinking about how we provide tools around automating some of getting those answers using, uh, a i N m l so that people can come to us, ask questions and we can get them the best answer very quickly without, um, having Thio engage a person. I think things idea of quick resolution is clearly becoming one of the most important things in customer sentiment. I think we know that, um, Mawr and Mawr. This idea of how quickly I can get my question's resolved or how easy it is for me to do business with you is a huge differentiator in how people make buying >>choices. Mm. On that. That automation has long been a new track tive idea. I mean, I'm I'm old enough to remember expert systems and and having a go at doing this kind of heavily automated way of resolving particularly common issues. And I mean, we were familiar with Coulson, a chat scripts. Where there's here are the top three issues and or it will be in the I V. R. Where it's like we're currently experiencing this particular problems, so that resolves your question quite quickly. But there's been a big rise in things like chatbots and and the use of AI. How far advanced. Is that because I still remember some of the early forays into that were a little bit flaky, and that could actually exacerbate the poor customer experience. I'm already having a problem, and and now you're chatbots getting in the way. Have they gotten a lot better? Are they Are they up to the challenge? >>Yeah. I mean, I think what's really critical when you're thinking about automation? Um, in the conversations you're having with customers, it's it's two things. One Don't try to hide that. That you're a computer. No, no, my name is Chad. I am. I am a human. Um, you're not in the vault. Yeah, there's not anyone. Um, so I think being really clear. And then, um e think surfacing how thio very easily opt out of those flows. I think, um, you know, automation is great, but it's not away. You shouldn't think of it as a way to frustrate your users to keep them tied up until you can get to them. It really is. Give them some quick options. And if they don't? If those don't solve their problems, really make sure that your you've got an escape valve, right? We were putting out a new sort of flow build their product zendesk. And we have all of the different, uh, words that someone could say that air like smashing the zero button. That means please transfer me to a person, right? You're driving me crazy. Let me connect you to an agent. Eso We're really making sure that it's easy, um, for customers to provide the solution where their customers can get the help they need rather than I >>really like that. That's That's something I think that gets a little bit lost in the focus on computers and and on automation is that the reason we do this is to help the humans. So when we have these AI systems, it's not actually to replace. The human interaction is to make it better. It's to make mean that we can then get to that genuine connection. Computers a fabulous and when they work, it's when they don't when they frustrate things that that bothers us. And that's generally why we're calling is that something has already gone wrong and we're a bit frustrated. So adding more frustration, doesn't it? Sounds like a good approach. It sounds like zendesk really got that? That dolled in very, very well. Is that something that you've you've always had? Is it something that you've refined over time? And can you teach it to a bunch of other companies? >>Way would love to teach each other. People know, I think e think we have always thought about how the machines can help the humans. And I think one it's how can they help the customers, of course. But the other side that I don't think people talk about quite a much is how can we use computers to help agents? Right. So you're talking to a person, and how can we take sort of the best answers that they've given Thio other customers and surface those, um, when When a new agent is coming on board, how do we suggest, um, you know, the different kinds of work flows that they might want to use to solve this problem in a more dynamic way. So I really like to think of the computers never as a replacement but really as a sort of hidden superpower, Um, that organizations have to make every agent one of their best >>agents, right? Yes, it is a kind of external cyborg thing. I mean, I can't remember anything these days. I constantly right less and they all live in computers. But they are. That's the kind of society that we live with today. And I think we should remember to embrace that side of things. That ah, lot of life has actually gotten a lot better through the use of these computing systems. It's not all terrible. It's, um, and I think more companies could probably learn from zendesk. And the approach that you've taken to center the humans, both the customers and and your internal staff, the call center and and the people who are providing this service. No one enjoys it when things are breaking and and things have gone wrong being able to resolve that quickly. Thanks a better experience for everybody. >>Yeah. I mean, I think we find over and over again sometimes you know, if you can handle an issue that's gone wrong, Um well, you can actually induce more loyalty than you know. If someone never contacted. You'd also if you could really take advantage of the times you have, unfortunately, maybe messed up on bake those customers happy. You really do you know, put so much in the sort of loyalty piggy bank for later. It's really great. >>So for some of the companies that have maybe struggled with this a little bit and particularly under very trying conditions, is there's some advice that you could give to them. Is there some places that they should should start to investigate this when they want to improve the way that they handle customer service, perhaps with things like Zendesk. >>Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of what what we're focused on right now is the this channel that's coming. Like I said, we think a lot about social messaging, but also in native messaging. Andi, how you can have a sort of ongoing long term conversation for a long time customer service, sort of Holy Grail was chat, and you could have a agent online and a human online, and you could solve their problem and then move on right And and sometimes those things take a little longer to solve. Or, you know, you might have a big issue and a whole bunch of people who have an issue and maybe not enough agents to solve them. And so, with messaging. We've really changed the dynamic. So chat was this completely synchronous, Almost like a phone call. Kind of experience and more messaging. You're able to live in this sort of duality where we can have a conversation if we're both here. But just like with your friends, right? Sometimes you throw a message out to offend you. Put it in your pocket, you pick it up, and you could pick up the conversation right where you left off. So bring that paradigm into your customer support experience really allows you to take some of that fear out of handling the volume that might come from chat. To be able to sort of have these ongoing sort of back and forth conversations over time. Andi also and give that that persistent so that we're always both in the same place when we show up again together >>embracing what the technology does well and avoiding what it doesn't do. Well, that that sounds like a plan. >>Shawna, >>this has been fabulous. It is. It is always very edifying for me. Thio here, when companies are doing well and centering the humans to make the technology improve all of our lives. Um It has been wonderful to have you here on the Cube. >>Thanks so much. It was a lot of fun, right? >>And thank you for joining in and and watching us here of the Cube virtual and our special coverage off AWS reinvent 2020. Do come back and look for more coverage off. Reinvent 2020 right here on the Cube. Next time I've been your host, Justin Warren, and we'll see you again soon.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCUBE! Covering the Upgrade 2020, the NTT Research Summit presented by NTT Research. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of Upgrade 2020. It's the NTT Research Summit covering a lot of really deep topics around a lot of the basic core research that NTT is sponsoring. Kind of like the old days of Mobell or some of the other kind of core research. And we're excited to have our next guest to go. A little bit beyond the core research and actually talk about working with people today. So we'd like to welcome in Alex Bennett. He is the global senior vice president of the intelligent workplace for NTT. Alex, good morning? >> Good morning, Jeff. How are you doing. >> Terrific. So I think for a lot of people, you know, probably know the NTT name, certainly in the States, but are not familiar with, I think, you know, the degree of which you guys have this huge business around services and workplace collaboration, I wonder if you can give us kind of a high level summary of the services angle at NTT, you know, beyond just putting in communications infrastructure equipment. >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, the NTT, as you said, is it's a huge organization, Very well known in Japan and growing in last year that we brought together about 32 different brands under the entity limited brand and we have NTT data services as well. So our role is really to look at the client requirements, the business needs that they have and be able to provide end to end solutions and wrap them with our services to make sure they've got, you know, efficiency gains, but also improving employee experience and experience around, you know, improving how they connect to their customers as well. >> Right, right. So obviously COVID-19, what was, you know, kind of a light switch moment back in March has now turned into, you know, kind of an ongoing, a new normal here we are six months plus into this, into this thing, really no end in sight in the immediate term. So, you know, people were thrown into the situation where work from home, work from anywhere had to happen with no prep. You've been in the business for a long time working on solutions. So there's the obvious things like security and access, but what are some of the less obvious things that people should be thinking about when they think about supporting their employees that are not now coming into the office? >> Well, I mean, it's been interesting, right. I said I have been in the sector for a long time and a lot of the themes have been the same for the last 10, 15 years, you know, how do we improve employee experience? How do we start to look at things like wellbeing? You know, how does it have an impact on productivity? And how do you make sure that we make it simple for people to carry out their tasks? Now, something I get asked a lot is this idea of how do we make it frictionless? A lot of the time, people don't really care about the brand or the technology. They just want to be able to carry out their role from whatever industry sector they aren't doing it efficiently and do it well, but also to be able to interact. I think it's been really important. And this pandemic has brought about this view, that people haven't been able to socialize in the same way they have in the past and work is really about people, you know, the workplace is also about people and how you connect those people into customers and provide efficiencies in that area. So the conversations I've been having in the last, you know, six to seven months, it's been quite interesting that the programs they were taking 18 months, 24 months, 36 months over, have had to be accelerated and really deployed in about three months. And then that's brought about the lows of operation on policy concerns. So as you mentioned, as you start to have this new, what we're calling, you know, distributed workforce, especially those organizations which have been perhaps more enterprise specific, you know, which are going into carpeted office environments, they've been requested by governments to only work from home. And that's brought about a huge impact to how people work, but also socialize. So from a technology standpoint, you've asked people, right, you're going to work from home, actually, do you have network connectivity? Can you actually connect with a technology tool? Like, you know, collaboration to be able to speak to your customers, to speak to your GOPs. Now what device are you actually working on? So we saw this real drive around what is this sort of immediate business continuity requirement for a secure remote worker. >> Right. And that brought about other concerns as well. >> Right. So there's so many layers to this conversation. I'm psyched to dig into it. But one of the ones I want to dig in is kind of tools overload, you know, this idea of collaboration and, you know, trying to get your work done and trying to get bears removed. At the same time though, it just can't seems like we just keep getting more tools added to the palette that we have to interact with every day, whether it's lack or a sauna or Salesforce or box, or you know, the list goes on and on and on. And the other thing that just seems strange to me is that right, all of these things have a notification component. So it's almost like the noise is increasing. I don't hear a lot of people ripping out old tooling or ripping out old systems. So how do you help guide people to say, that there's all these great collaboration tools, there's all these great communication tools, but you can't have all of them firing all the time and expect people to actually have time to get work done. >> Yeah. And it's also, you know, some people are used to that, you might have a digital native who's used to using multiple tools, but you don't have others that actually haven't been taught or a learning program about how to use different tools for different applications. And that becomes that person becomes frustrated and their productivity levels can go down. I think that what we'd really try and do is understand what are the business requirements by the persona? And also if you think of that distributed worker, that's now having to work from home and go into the office for specific tasks that are allowed, are they a sales person? No. Are they actually working in HR? What do they need and what are the tasks they need? And that start to provide the right types of tools and technology specifically for them and make sure they have a learning path that's driven around how they actually enable that technology. But you're right though. I think one of the thing that COVID founder's that doesn't happen overnight, you know, that's an engagement process. COVID hit and everyone was at home straight away. So we did see this huge transition from what may have been a legacy on premise application to starting to use more cloud based applications. And almost everyone was thrown in at the deep pant. Right? Well, here you go, just get on and use it. And at the same time they had WeChat or they had no other types of applications like WhatsApp and there were all these channels were happening. And they always had an impact on things like compliance and security, because all of a sudden, you're not using a corporately approved platform and solution. And you're starting to talk about perhaps confidential information. That's not in a way that is actually retained inside of a corporate network for the compliance and regulatory components. Right. So it's been a really interesting time in the last few months. >> Right. Well, so let's just touch on security for a minute. 'Cause obviously security is a huge concern. As you said, there's a whole bunch of security. You get kind of new security issues. One is just, everybody's working from home, whether they've got to VPN or not, or they're on their... You know, whatever their cable provider. You don't know what devices they're on, right? There's so many different devices and too as these apps have proliferated all over all these devices, whether access Salesforce on my phone or on my laptop or on my computer at work. Right. All very different. So when you look at the kind of security challenge that has come from distributed workforce with this super acceleration, you know, how many customers are ready for it, it's just caused a complete, you know, kind of fire, a hair on fire reaction to get up to speed, or, you know, are a lot of the systems of the monitored system relatively well locked down. So it wasn't a giant, you know, kind of adjustment back in March. >> Really. It depends on the type of company culture it was before. You know, what we've actually seen from some research we've done very recently across 1500 different companies, those organizations that have really invested become more digital disruptors. Now that they've embedded an idea of agility, they've actually already got a distributed workforce. They've already started to move a lot of their platforms and applications to the cloud. They've started to think about these IT policies and security. Previously, they've been very successful in how they've been able to pivot and drive this business continuity. I think for others that have been, no have large installed base of employees, no have set policies in place it's been harder for them to transition. And what we've seen is that they're the organizations that have really tried to integrate some of the new technologies into the old and that that's quite difficult sometimes. So, you know, around security, out of those 1500 organizations, nearly 70% of them said that they have a higher level of risk and concern about this. You're already in compliance today than they had prior to the pandemic. >> Right. >> What also is brought about is this idea of moving from a sort of perimeter security now where you'd come into an office and you have this perimeter where the network's secure, the physical location, and security, containerize the applications. And you've got to empower employees more now because you know, people are going to be mobile. They're going to be using multiple devices in different locations, all around the world. So we're seeing this transition as people move to cloud based platform, security is starting to get embedded into the application and it goes back to that persona aspect. So you can start to initiate things like you know, data loss protection and rights management about the content an individual has based on their location or the confidentiality of that document or piece of information. So that's where we're seeing this move is sort of really accelerating to the group, take the stress away from the employee embedded into an actual system and an application. And that has the intelligence to work out the security and the compliance on behalf of the individual. >> Right. You know, where I was going to go is, you know, there's a lot of conversations now about certain companies announcing that people can just work from home for the foreseeable future, especially here in Silicon Valley. And you mentioned that, you know, for some people that were already kind of down at digital transformation path, they're in good shape. Other people, you know, weren't that far, and of course all the means on social media are, you know, what drove your digital transformation, the CEO, the CMO, or COVID. And we all know the answer to the question. So I just want to get, you know, kind of a longterm perspective. You've been in this space for a long time. I think there's going to be, you know, a significantly increased percentage of people that are working from home. A significantly increased percentage of the time, if not a hundred percent of the time. How do you see this kind of, you know, extending out and how will it impact the way that people motivate? 'Cause at the end of the day, you've written a ton of blog posts on this, you know, motivation equals profitability. And a motivated engaged people do better work and do get better results on the bottom line. How do you see this as this as (indistinct) rules for six months, 12 months, 24 months, when there's some mishmash of combination of work from home and work from the office? >> I think probably the first thing to say is that from the research we've done, we think that's going to differ by different geographies. I mean, it's interesting when you look at areas like India and perhaps South Africa where the network connectivity home is actually not as good as in Northern Europe or North America, and actually it becomes quite hard to carry out your role and task at home. And it can become really frustrating. There's also sort of health and safety components to also working at home. Now we've had a lot of people, especially the younger generation who are in shared home, shared facilities. Now who's going to pay for the internet, the bundles, you know, and actually you only have your bedroom and is it healthy to work at your bedroom all day? So when you really sort of peel back the layers of this, this is a really complex environment, and it's also dependent on the industry sector you are. You're actually driving. But at a high level, one thing we're really seeing is most people still want to have a level of human interaction. That we as humans like to like to work together and engage together. And in fact, about 80% of the respondents of our report actually said, they want to come back to the office. Now this, this speaks to this idea of choice and flexibility. 'Cause it's not just about coming back for five days a week, eight to five, it's about going actually I've got a task to carry out. It'd be really helpful if I was with my team face to face. >> Right. >> And I can come in for four hours, book my time in that physical space, carry that out, and then I can go home and do that sort of really the research based work which I can do in the safety of my own environment. So that's what we're seeing across the industry whereas before. Now, I think everyone's trying to build these really nice big offices that looked fantastic, more huge and talked about your brand. Most organizations now are repurposing space 'cause they're not going to have as many people inside of those physical locations, but they're motivating for them to come in for creative work, you know, to be social, to think about how they do cross agile team development. >> Jeff: Right. >> And that's what we're starting to see today. >> Yeah. It's really interesting you think of some young engineer that just graduated from school, gets a job at Google and you know, you get all your food there and they'll do your dry cleaning and they'll change the oil in your car and they'll, you know, take care of everything. And, and so there's this little growth in these little micro houses. Well guess what, now you don't have any of that stuff anymore. The micro house with no kitchen or kitchen that does look so attractive. And I want to shift gears a little bit more detail on NTT. You know, we've talked to lots of people about new ways to work. IBM, Citrix, you know, VM-ware has a solution and you work with big company. So how does NTT fit in, you know, kind of a transformation process big and that on the big scale, but more kind of an employee engagement and a work from anywhere type of engagement. How do you guys fit within, you know, big system integrators, like a center that are driving organizational change and, you know, kind of all this other suite of technology that they might already have in place. >> Yeah. I mean, we sort of sit in that role of a service delivery organization as well as systems integrator. So our role is to actually go into those clients and sit down with them, which is now virtually, rather than in person a lot of the time. And really understand what are those business KPIs they have and help them shape that strategy. And to do that, you've got to understand what they have today, that view of the assets. And that goes across multiple components as you said, from, you know, desktop application, security, inclusive of culture, property assets, network. And what we do is really take a holistic view of those areas that go for you to reach that business goal, that KPI, you know, this is the project that you're going to have to do. And anything around employee engagement ultimately is fed also by how good your network is and how secure that network is to deliver those applications efficiently for that employee to carry out their task in that frictionless way. So we have a very holistic view about how we then deliver Upgrade. That the core infrastructure, we do that secure by design is our sort of policy and everything we do, you know, security is embedded into what we do, and then we deliver that outcome. But then we erupt things like adoption services. I think one thing in the past, you know, people say here's a technology, go on and do it. Especially nowadays, you've got quite complex platforms. You've got to really understand how do you give information to people to self serve them, that sort of nudge technology, so they can understand how to carry it out on that idea of adoption training. Change of management is becoming ever increasingly important for our clients. >> Right. So I wan shift gears again, Alex, and talk about the show Upgrade 2020. Lot of (laughs) a lot of really heavy science going on here in healthcare, in IT, in a whole bunch of areas. Pretty exciting stuff, you know, we've talked to some other guests about some of the real details and I'm definitely going to attend some sessions and have my brain exploded I'm sure. But I'm just curious of how it fits with what your doing, you know, you've been involved, as you said, not necessarily the NTT, but you've been involved in kind of workplace collaboration tools for a long, long time. You know, how do you see, you know, kind of basic research and some of this really fundamental research, you know, kind of helping you and your customers and your solutions, you know, as we kind of moved down the road. >> Alright, hold at that. The main conversation we're having with executives today is this idea of employee wellbeing and experience is fundamental to the success of their business. 'Cause it drives customer centricity productivity gains. You've got to think about how technology can underpin that and deliver insights to you. So, you know, the new currency is data. And what I find really interesting around and what we're talking about with Upgrade 2020 is this ideas of digital twins. So when you think of this concept of a digital twin, it all is based on this idea of extensibility. So all your decisions that you're making right to today, you know, these short term decisions you having to do for business continuity, you've got to think about the longterm impact of how you're going to be able to ingest that data from all those systems into a central area, to give you insight. Now, from that insight, you've then got the, you know, the power of machine learning and artificial intelligence to actually say right, for this component how many of my employees really are? Then well, are they doing well in the productivity gains? And from my property estate, you know, how many of my properties are actually reducing the energy consumption? And are we adhering to our sustainability goals? Are they well? So the actual physical environment is safe for those employees. So all of those disparate platforms have to come together into that one area and give you insight. So that the marrying of physical space with the how humans interact all into a digital twin, I think is really interesting and something I'm speaking to clients about day in, day out. >> I love that, that is awesome. You know, we're first exposed to the digital twin concept years ago, doing some work with general electric, because they were doing a lot of digital twin work around, you know, engines on airplanes and, you know, simulate an airplane engine that's running on a plane in the Middle East, it's going to act very different than a plane that's running in Alaska. And then, you know, I love the concept of digital twin around the context of people in medicine, right. And modeling a heart or modeling a behavior system or cardiovascular system. How are you talking about digital twins? 'Cause it sounds like you're talking about kind of a combination between, you know, kind of individual people and how they're doing versus some group of people as a unit or organization. And then you even mentioned, you know, sustainability goals and buildings. So when you're talking about digital twin in this context, what are the boundaries? How are you organizing that thing that you can then do, you know, kind of tests and kind of predictive exercises to see how the real thing is going to do relative to what the digital twin did. >> Yeah. But it goes back to defining those business outcomes. And most of the discussions we're having is, yeah, obviously increased productivity, but it's also a reducing costs. A big one we've seen in my area is attraction retention of talent. You know, intellectual property is going to differentiate organizations in the future as technology sort of standardizes. But sustainability again from the research we've done is really high up on the executives agenda. You know, the idea that we, as NTT as well, we have a duty to society to actually start giving back a view of how technology can improve the sustainability goal. And in fact, we've just become the business Avenger for the UN sustainability goal, number 11, around the idea of communities and smart cities. So the clients that I'm speaking to when they're looking at those business objectives are no 10, 15% of my, my actual costs associated to my property. We've now got a new distributed workforce, but I've got a huge amount of energy going into those properties. Now we can actually connect now building management systems into now that digital twin. We can also start to look at the other platforms such as lifts, you know, also all the heating and air ventilation. And start to get the data that allows us to model and predict when certain issues may occur. So, you know, as less people start coming in, you'll have occupancy data. You'll be able to say, you're actually, this location has only been used 30% capacity. We could reduce the amount of space we have, or in fact, we don't need that space at all. And in that space, we know that we're running an HVAC system and air conditioning a hundred percent of the time. You start to actually reduce that and you can reduce energy consumption by 30%. Now goes back to this whole idea of extensibility on one building that can have a big impact, but across 500 buildings that we're NTT have, that's a significant amount of energy that we can change. >> Jeff: Right. >> And also you can then start to think about the idea of, you know, more different type of power purchasing agreement with sustainable energy going into those environments. >> So many, you know, kind of so many interesting twists and turns on this journey since, you know, that COVID hit. And it is going to be really fascinating to see kind of what sticks and, you know, and the longterm ramifications. 'Cause we're not going back to the way that it was. I think that's not even a question. Just the last thing on kind of the data, you know, we saw some really, I think not such great things early on in this thing where, you know, you get put us basically a sniffer on and you know, our people sitting in front of their computer all day. I saw some nasty thing on Twitter the other day. My boss wants me to be on Zoom calls all day long. I mean, do people get it that, you know, there's an opportunity to increase motivation, not decrease motivation by, you know, a responsible use and a good use of this data versus, you know, a potential perception of, well now they're just big brothering me to death. >> It's such a hot topic, right? I mean, even before COVID we had, you know, the GDPR compliance in Europe. But that ultimately is a global compliance and the West coast America also got a similar one now about what data you're actually keeping about me as an individual. And I should have access to that and I can not speak to my company about it. And is it big brother or actually using that data to help inform me as an individual ways of improving the way I work or working in a way that has a better balance for me as an individual. And we're having these conversations with our clients right now about how we do this, because they having to work with workers counselors in countries like Germany. Because track and trace does have that view of that sort of big brother. What, where are you? What are you doing? And how long have you been on your computer? I think it's down to the culture of your business and the purpose that you have and how you engage with your employees, that you show that data to be about all benefiting them as an individual. Now, I'm going back to that digital twin, that the view of ingesting data, then from perhaps platforms like, you know, Cisco WebEx or Office 365, and you can see how long they are actually in front of their screen. You can then start to predict and see where you may have burnout or in fact affect change where you say RHR policy should dictate, you shouldn't be working 14 hours a day. That's not good for you. It's not good for us. And actually nudge them and teach them about taking no time away from the desk and actually having a better work balance. And that's important because it all goes back to increases the productivity longterm, but it's great brand association and it's good for attraction and retention of talent. >> Right, Right. Well, I think the retention and attraction is a huge thing. You keep talking about productivity and obviously in your blog post talking about engagement, right. And engagement is such a direct tie to that. And then at the bottom line (giggles) it's kind of like diversity of opinion. It actually makes good business sense. And you actually put more money in the bank at the end of the day, when you do some of these more progressive, you know, kind of approaches to how you manage the people. 'Cause they're not machines, they're people. >> Yeah. And you should allow them to make decisions. You know, that again, distributed working, you've got to think of how to empower them with the tools that gives them the choice to make decisions. And you know, that that decision making is more democratized inside of organizations that are successful. But if you don't have the technology that allows them to do that, it goes back to a hierarchical decision making. And that takes time, it's slower to market, and then you know, you're not as successful as your competition. So we're really trying to prove that this idea of thinking about people first using the data that backs it up you know, with empirical data to show the benefits, is the way forward for organizations today. >> Yeah. Alex, great conversation. Certainly nothing but opportunity (laughs) I had for you and what you do in this really fast evolving and transformative space, which is so important. Which is how do people work? How do they feel good? How are they engaged? How are they productive and really contribute? And at the end of the day, it is good business. So exciting times, good luck on the show and some of this crazy research coming out of it on the digital twin, and we look forward to continuing to watch the story unfold. >> Thank you very much, Jeff. >> Alright. He's Alex. I'm Jeff. You're watching Upgrade 2020. The continuous coverage from theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hi, everybody this is Dave Vellante of theCUBE, and welcome back to my CXO series. I've been running this through really since the start of the COVID-19 crisis to really understand how leaders are dealing with this pandemic. Sri Ambati is here, he's the CEO and founder of H20. Sri, it's great to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having us. >> Yeah, so this pandemic has obviously given people fits, no question, but it's also given opportunities for companies to kind of reassess where they are. Automation is a huge watchword, flexibility, business resiliency and people who maybe really hadn't fully leaned into things like the cloud and AI and automation are now realizing, wow, we have no choice, it's about survival. Your thought as to what you're seeing in the marketplace. >> Thanks for having us. I think first of all, kudos to the frontline health workers who have been ruthlessly saving lives across the country and the world, and what you're really doing is a fraction of what we could have done or should be doing to stay away the next big pandemic. But that apart I think, I usually tend to say BC is before COVID. So if the world was thinking about going digital after COVID-19, they have been forced to go digital and as a result, you're seeing tremendous transformation across our customers, and a lot of application to kind of go in and reinvent their business models that allow them to scale as effortlessly as they could using the digital means. >> So, think about, doctors and diagnosis machines, in some cases, are helping doctors make diagnoses, they're sometimes making even better diagnosis, (mumbles) is informing. There's been a lot of talk about the models, you know how... Yeah, I know you've been working with a lot of healthcare organizations, you may probably familiar with that, you know, the Medium post, The Hammer and the Dance, and if people criticize the models, of course, they're just models, right? And you iterate models and machine intelligence can help us improve. So, in this, you know, you talk about BC and post C, how have you seen the data and in machine intelligence informing the models and proving that what we know about this pandemic, I mean, it changed literally daily, what are you seeing? >> Yeah, and I think it started with Wuhan and we saw the best application of AI in trying to trace, literally from Alipay, to WeChat, track down the first folks who were spreading it across China and then eventually the rest of the world. I think contact tracing, for example, has become a really interesting problem. supply chain has been disrupted like never before. We're beginning to see customers trying to reinvent their distribution mechanisms in the second order effects of the COVID, and the the prime center is hospital staffing, how many ventilator, is the first few weeks so that after COVID crisis as it evolved in the US. We are busy predicting working with some of the local healthcare communities to predict how staffing in hospitals will work, how many PPE and ventilators will be needed and so henceforth, but that quickly and when the peak surge will be those with the beginning problems, and many of our customers have begin to do these models and iterate and improve and kind of educate the community to practice social distancing, and that led to a lot of flattening the curve and you're talking flattening the curve, you're really talking about data science and analytics in public speak. That led to kind of the next level, now that we have somewhat brought a semblance of order to the reaction to COVID, I think what we are beginning to figure out is, is there going to be a second surge, what elective procedures that were postponed, will be top of the mind for customers, and so this is the kind of things that hospitals are beginning to plan out for the second half of the year, and as businesses try to open up, certain things were highly correlated to surgeon cases, such as cleaning supplies, for example, the obvious one or pantry buying. So retailers are beginning to see what online stores are doing well, e-commerce, online purchases, electronic goods, and so everyone essentially started working from home, and so homes needed to have the same kind of bandwidth that offices and commercial enterprises needed to have, and so a lot of interesting, as one side you saw airlines go away, this side you saw the likes of Zoom and video take off. So you're kind of seeing a real divide in the digital divide and that's happening and AI is here to play a very good role to figure out how to enhance your profitability as you're looking about planning out the next two years. >> Yeah, you know, and obviously, these things they get, they get partisan, it gets political, I mean, our job as an industry is to report, your job is to help people understand, I mean, let the data inform and then let public policy you know, fight it out. So who are some of the people that you're working with that you know, as a result of COVID-19. What's some of the work that H2O has done, I want to better understand what role are you playing? >> So one of the things we're kind of privileged as a company to come into the crisis, with a strong balance and an ability to actually have the right kind of momentum behind the company in terms of great talent, and so we have 10% of the world's top data scientists in the in the form of Kaggle Grand Masters in the company. And so we put most of them to work, and they started collecting data sets, curating data sets and making them more qualitative, picking up public data sources, for example, there's a tremendous amount of job loss out there, figuring out which are the more difficult kind of sectors in the economy and then we started looking at exodus from the cities, we're looking at mobility data that's publicly available, mobility data through the data exchanges, you're able to find which cities which rural areas, did the New Yorkers as they left the city, which places did they go to, and what's to say, Californians when they left Los Angeles, which are the new places they have settled in? These are the places which are now busy places for the same kind of items that you need to sell if you're a retailer, but if you go one step further, we started engaging with FEMA, we start engaging with the universities, like Imperial College London or Berkeley, and started figuring out how best to improve the models and automate them. The SEER model, the most popular SEER model, we added that into our Driverless AI product as a recipe and made that accessible to our customers in testing, to customers in healthcare who are trying to predict where the surge is likely to come. But it's mostly about information right? So the AI at the end of it is all about intelligence and being prepared. Predictive is all about being prepared and that's kind of what we did with general, lots of blogs, typical blog articles and working with the largest health organizations and starting to kind of inform them on the most stable models. What we found to our not so much surprise, is that the simplest, very interpretable models are actually the most widely usable, because historical data is actually no longer as effective. You need to build a model that you can quickly understand and retry again to the feedback loop of back testing that model against what really happened. >> Yeah, so I want to double down on that. So really, two things I want to understand, if you have visibility on it, sounds like you do. Just in terms of the surge and the comeback, you know, kind of what those models say, based upon, you know, we have some advanced information coming from the global market, for sure, but it seems like every situation is different. What's the data telling you? Just in terms of, okay, we're coming into the spring and the summer months, maybe it'll come down a little bit. Everybody says it... We fully expect it to come back in the fall, go back to college, don't go back to college. What is the data telling you at this point in time with an understanding that, you know, we're still iterating every day? >> Well, I think I mean, we're not epidemiologists, but at the same time, the science of it is a highly local response, very hyper local response to COVID-19 is what we've seen. Santa Clara, which is just a county, I mean, is different from San Francisco, right, sort of. So you beginning to see, like we saw in Brooklyn, it's very different, and Bronx, very different from Manhattan. So you're seeing a very, very local response to this disease, and I'm talking about US. You see the likes of Brazil, which we're worried about, has picked up quite a bit of cases now. I think the silver lining I would say is that China is up and running to a large degree, a large number of our user base there are back active, you can see the traffic patterns there. So two months after their last research cases, the business and economic activity is back and thriving. And so, you can kind of estimate from that, that this can be done where you can actually contain the rise of active cases and it will take masking of the entire community, masking and the healthy dose of increase in testing. One of our offices is in Prague, and Czech Republic has done an incredible job in trying to contain this and they've done essentially, masked everybody and as a result they're back thinking about opening offices, schools later this month. So I think that's a very, very local response, hyper local response, no one country and no one community is symmetrical with other ones and I think we have a unique situation where in United States you have a very, very highly connected world, highly connected economy and I think we have quite a problem on our hands on how to safeguard our economy while also safeguarding life. >> Yeah, so you can't just, you can't just take Norway and apply it or South Korea and apply it, every situation is different. And then I want to ask you about, you know, the economy in terms of, you know, how much can AI actually, you know, how can it work in this situation where you have, you know, for example, okay, so the Fed, yes, it started doing asset buys back in 2008 but still, very hard to predict, I mean, at this time of this interview you know, Stock Market up 900 points, very difficult to predict that but some event happens in the morning, somebody, you know, Powell says something positive and it goes crazy but just sort of even modeling out the V recovery, the W recovery, deep recession, the comeback. You have to have enough data, do you not? In order for AI to be reasonably accurate? How does it work? And how does at what pace can you iterate and improve on the models? >> So I think that's exactly where I would say, continuous modeling, instead of continuously learning continuous, that's where the vision of the world is headed towards, where data is coming, you build a model, and then you iterate, try it out and come back. That kind of rapid, continuous learning would probably be needed for all our models as opposed to the typical, I'm pushing a model to production once a year, or once every quarter. I think what we're beginning to see is the kind of where companies are beginning to kind of plan out. A lot of people lost their jobs in the last couple of months, right, sort of. And so up scaling and trying to kind of bring back these jobs back both into kind of, both from the manufacturing side, but also lost a lot of jobs in the transportation and the kind of the airlines slash hotel industries, right, sort of. So it's trying to now bring back the sense of confidence and will take a lot more kind of testing, a lot more masking, a lot more social empathy, I think well, some of the things that we are missing while we are socially distant, we know that we are so connected as a species, we need to kind of start having that empathy for we need to wear a mask, not for ourselves, but for our neighbors and people we may run into. And I think that kind of, the same kind of thinking has to kind of parade, before we can open up the economy in a big way. The data, I mean, we can do a lot of transfer learning, right, sort of there are new methods, like try to model it, similar to the 1918, where we had a second bump, or a lot of little bumps, and that's kind of where your W shaped pieces, but governments are trying very well in seeing stimulus dollars being pumped through banks. So some of the US case we're looking for banks is, which small medium business in especially, in unsecured lending, which business to lend to, (mumbles) there's so many applications that have come to banks across the world, it's not just in the US, and banks are caught up with the problem of which and what's growing the concern for this business to kind of, are they really accurate about the number of employees they are saying they have? Do then the next level problem or on forbearance and mortgage, that side of the things are coming up at some of these banks as well. So they're looking at which, what's one of the problems that one of our customers Wells Fargo, they have a question which branch to open, right, sort of that itself, it needs a different kind of modeling. So everything has become a very highly good segmented models, and so AI is absolutely not just a good to have, it has become a must have for most of our customers in how to go about their business. (mumbles) >> I want to talk a little bit about your business, you have been on a mission to democratize AI since the beginning, open source. Explain your business model, how you guys make money and then I want to help people understand basic theoretical comparisons and current affairs. >> Yeah, that's great. I think the last time we spoke, probably about at the Spark Summit. I think Dave and we were talking about Sparkling Water and H2O our open source platforms, which are premium platforms for democratizing machine learning and math at scale, and that's been a tremendous brand for us. Over the last couple of years, we have essentially built a platform called Driverless AI, which is a license software and that automates machine learning models, we took the best practices of all these data scientists, and combined them to essentially build recipes that allow people to build the best forecasting models, best fraud prevention models or the best recommendation engines, and so we started augmenting traditional data scientists with this automatic machine learning called AutoML, that essentially allows them to build models without necessarily having the same level of talent as these great Kaggle Grand Masters. And so that has democratized, allowed ordinary companies to start producing models of high caliber and high quality that would otherwise have been the pedigree of Google, Microsoft or Amazon or some of these top tier AI houses like Netflix and others. So what we've done is democratize not just the algorithms at the open source level. Now, we've made it easy for kind of rapid adoption of AI across every branch inside a company, a large organization, also across smaller organizations which don't have the access to the same kind of talent. Now, third level, you know, what we've brought to market, is ability to augment data sets, especially public and private data sets that you can, the alternative data sets that can increase the signal. And that's where we've started working on a new platform called Q, again, more license software, and I mean, to give you an idea there from business models endpoint, now majority of our software sales is coming from closed source software. And sort of so, we've made that transition, we still make our open source widely accessible, we continue to improve it, a large chunk of the teams are improving and participating in building the communities but I think from a business model standpoint as of last year, 51% of our revenues are now coming from closed source software and that change is continuing to grow. >> And this is the point I wanted to get to, so you know, the open source model was you know, Red Hat the one company that, you know, succeeded wildly and it was, put it out there open source, come up with a service, maintain the software, you got to buy the subscription okay, fine. And everybody thought that you know, you were going to do that, they thought that Databricks was going to do and that changed. But I want to take two examples, Hortonworks which kind of took the Red Hat model and Cloudera which does IP. And neither really lived up to the expectation, but now there seems to be sort of a new breed I mentioned, you guys, Databricks, there are others, that seem to be working. You with your license software model, Databricks with a managed service and so there's, it's becoming clear that there's got to be some level of IP that can be licensed in order to really thrive in the open source community to be able to fund the committers that you have to put forth to open source. I wonder if you could give me your thoughts on that narrative. >> So on Driverless AI, which is the closest platform I mentioned, we opened up the layers in open source as recipes. So for example, different companies build their zip codes differently, right, the domain specific recipes, we put about 150 of them in open source again, on top of our Driverless AI platform, and the idea there is that, open source is about freedom, right? It is not necessarily about, it's not a philosophy, it's not a business model, it allows freedom for rapid adoption of a platform and complete democratization and commodification of a space. And that allows a small company like ours to compete at the level of an SaaS or a Google or a Microsoft because you have the same level of voice as a very large company and you're focused on using code as a community building exercise as opposed to a business model, right? So that's kind of the heart of open source, is allowing that freedom for our end users and the customers to kind of innovate at the same level of that a Silicon Valley company or one of these large tech giants are building software. So it's really about making, it's a maker culture, as opposed to a consumer culture around software. Now, if you look at how the the Red Hat model, and the others who have tried to replicate that, the difficult part there was, if the product is very good, customers are self sufficient and if it becomes a standard, then customers know how to use it. If the product is crippled or difficult to use, then you put a lot of services and that's where you saw the classic Hadoop companies, get pulled into a lot of services, which is a reasonably difficult business to scale. So I think what we chose was, instead, a great product that builds a fantastic brand, that makes AI, even when other first or second.ai domain, and for us to see thousands of companies which are not AI and AI first, and even more companies adopting AI and talking about AI as a major way that was possible because of open source. If you had chosen close source and many of your peers did, they all vanished. So that's kind of how the open source is really about building the ecosystem and having the patience to build a company that takes 10, 20 years to build. And what we are expecting unfortunately, is a first and fast rise up to become unicorns. In that race, you're essentially sacrifice, building a long ecosystem play, and that's kind of what we chose to do, and that took a little longer. Now, if you think about the, how do you truly monetize open source, it takes a little longer and is much more difficult sales machine to scale, right, sort of. Our open source business actually is reasonably positive EBITDA business because it makes more money than we spend on it. But trying to teach sales teams, how to sell open source, that's a much, that's a rate limiting step. And that's why we chose and also explaining to the investors, how open source is being invested in as you go closer to the IPO markets, that's where we chose, let's go into license software model and scale that as a regular business. >> So I've said a few times, it's kind of like ironic that, this pandemic is as we're entering a new decade, you know, we've kind of we're exiting the era, I mean, the many, many decades of Moore's law being the source of innovation and now it's a combination of data, applying machine intelligence and being able to scale and with cloud. Well, my question is, what did we expect out of AI this decade if those are sort of the three, the cocktail of innovation, if you will, what should we expect? Is it really just about, I suggest, is it really about automating, you know, businesses, giving them more agility, flexibility, you know, etc. Or should we should we expect more from AI this decade? >> Well, I mean, if you think about the decade of 2010 2011, that was defined by software is eating the world, right? And now you can say software is the world, right? I mean, pretty much almost all conditions are digital. And AI is eating software, right? (mumbling) A lot of cloud transitions are happening and are now happening much faster rate but cloud and AI are kind of the leading, AI is essentially one of the biggest driver for cloud adoption for many of our customers. So in the enterprise world, you're seeing rebuilding of a lot of data, fast data driven applications that use AI, instead of rule based software, you're beginning to see patterned, mission AI based software, and you're seeing that in spades. And, of course, that is just the tip of the iceberg, AI has been with us for 100 years, and it's going to be ahead of us another hundred years, right, sort of. So as you see the discovery rate at which, it is really a fundamentally a math, math movement and in that math movement at the beginning of every century, it leads to 100 years of phenomenal discovery. So AI is essentially making discoveries faster, AI is producing, entertainment, AI is producing music, AI is producing choreographing, you're seeing AI in every walk of life, AI summarization of Zoom meetings, right, you beginning to see a lot of the AI enabled ETF peaking of stocks, right, sort of. You're beginning to see, we repriced 20,000 bonds every 15 seconds using H2O AI, corporate bonds. And so you and one of our customers is on the fastest growing stock, mostly AI is powering a lot of these insights in a fast changing world which is globally connected. No one of us is able to combine all the multiple dimensions that are changing and AI has that incredible opportunity to be a partner for every... (mumbling) For a hospital looking at how the second half will look like for physicians looking at what is the sentiment of... What is the surge to expect? To kind of what is the market demand looking at the sentiment of the customers. AI is the ultimate money ball in business and then I think it's just showing its depth at this point. >> Yeah, I mean, I think you're right on, I mean, basically AI is going to convert every software, every application, or those tools aren't going to have much use, Sri we got to go but thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and the great work you guys are doing. Really appreciate your insights. stay safe, and best of luck to you guys. >> Likewise, thank you so much. >> Welcome, and thank you for watching everybody, this is Dave Vellante for the CXO series on theCUBE. We'll see you next time. All right, we're clear. All right.

>> Starting the record, Dave in five, four, three. Hi, everybody this is Dave Vellante, theCUBE, and welcome back to my CXO series. I've been running this through really since the start of the COVID-19 crisis to really understand how leaders are dealing with this pandemic. Sri Ambati is here, he's the CEO and founder of H20. Sri, it's great to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having us. >> Yeah, so this pandemic has obviously given people fits, no question, but it's also given opportunities for companies to kind of reassess where they are. Automation is a huge watchword, flexibility, business resiliency and people who maybe really hadn't fully leaned into things like the cloud and AI and automation are now realizing, wow, we have no choice, it's about survival. Your thought as to what you're seeing in the marketplace. >> Thanks for having us. I think first of all, kudos to the frontline health workers who have been ruthlessly saving lives across the country and the world, and what you're really doing is a fraction of what we could have done or should be doing to stay away the next big pandemic. But that apart I think, I usually tend to say BC is before COVID. So if the world was thinking about going digital after COVID-19, they have been forced to go digital and as a result, you're seeing tremendous transformation across our customers, and a lot of application to kind of go in and reinvent their business models that allow them to scale as effortlessly as they could using the digital means. >> So, think about, doctors and diagnosis machines, in some cases, are helping doctors make diagnoses, they're sometimes making even better diagnosis, (mumbles) is informing. There's been a lot of talk about the models, you know how... Yeah, I know you've been working with a lot of healthcare organizations, you may probably familiar with that, you know, the Medium post, The Hammer and the Dance, and if people criticize the models, of course, they're just models, right? And you iterate models and machine intelligence can help us improve. So, in this, you know, you talk about BC and post C, how have you seen the data and in machine intelligence informing the models and proving that what we know about this pandemic, I mean, it changed literally daily, what are you seeing? >> Yeah, and I think it started with Wuhan and we saw the best application of AI in trying to trace, literally from Alipay, to WeChat, track down the first folks who were spreading it across China and then eventually the rest of the world. I think contact tracing, for example, has become a really interesting problem. supply chain has been disrupted like never before. We're beginning to see customers trying to reinvent their distribution mechanisms in the second order effects of the COVID, and the the prime center is hospital staffing, how many ventilator, is the first few weeks so that after COVID crisis as it evolved in the US. We are busy predicting working with some of the local healthcare communities to predict how staffing in hospitals will work, how many PPE and ventilators will be needed and so henceforth, but that quickly and when the peak surge will be those with the beginning problems, and many of our customers have begin to do these models and iterate and improve and kind of educate the community to practice social distancing, and that led to a lot of flattening the curve and you're talking flattening the curve, you're really talking about data science and analytics in public speak. That led to kind of the next level, now that we have somewhat brought a semblance of order to the reaction to COVID, I think what we are beginning to figure out is, is there going to be a second surge, what elective procedures that were postponed, will be top of the mind for customers, and so this is the kind of things that hospitals are beginning to plan out for the second half of the year, and as businesses try to open up, certain things were highly correlated to surgeon cases, such as cleaning supplies, for example, the obvious one or pantry buying. So retailers are beginning to see what online stores are doing well, e-commerce, online purchases, electronic goods, and so everyone essentially started working from home, and so homes needed to have the same kind of bandwidth that offices and commercial enterprises needed to have, and so a lot of interesting, as one side you saw airlines go away, this side you saw the likes of Zoom and video take off. So you're kind of seeing a real divide in the digital divide and that's happening and AI is here to play a very good role to figure out how to enhance your profitability as you're looking about planning out the next two years. >> Yeah, you know, and obviously, these things they get, they get partisan, it gets political, I mean, our job as an industry is to report, your job is to help people understand, I mean, let the data inform and then let public policy you know, fight it out. So who are some of the people that you're working with that you know, as a result of COVID-19. What's some of the work that H2O has done, I want to better understand what role are you playing? >> So one of the things we're kind of privileged as a company to come into the crisis, with a strong balance and an ability to actually have the right kind of momentum behind the company in terms of great talent, and so we have 10% of the world's top data scientists in the in the form of Kaggle Grand Masters in the company. And so we put most of them to work, and they started collecting data sets, curating data sets and making them more qualitative, picking up public data sources, for example, there's a tremendous amount of job loss out there, figuring out which are the more difficult kind of sectors in the economy and then we started looking at exodus from the cities, we're looking at mobility data that's publicly available, mobility data through the data exchanges, you're able to find which cities which rural areas, did the New Yorkers as they left the city, which places did they go to, and what's to say, Californians when they left Los Angeles, which are the new places they have settled in? These are the places which are now busy places for the same kind of items that you need to sell if you're a retailer, but if you go one step further, we started engaging with FEMA, we start engaging with the universities, like Imperial College London or Berkeley, and started figuring out how best to improve the models and automate them. The SaaS model, the most popular SaaS model, we added that into our Driverless AI product as a recipe and made that accessible to our customers in testing, to customers in healthcare who are trying to predict where the surge is likely to come. But it's mostly about information right? So the AI at the end of it is all about intelligence and being prepared. Predictive is all about being prepared and that's kind of what we did with general, lots of blogs, typical blog articles and working with the largest health organizations and starting to kind of inform them on the most stable models. What we found to our not so much surprise, is that the simplest, very interpretable models are actually the most widely usable, because historical data is actually no longer as effective. You need to build a model that you can quickly understand and retry again to the feedback loop of back testing that model against what really happened. >> Yeah, so I want to double down on that. So really, two things I want to understand, if you have visibility on it, sounds like you do. Just in terms of the surge and the comeback, you know, kind of what those models say, based upon, you know, we have some advanced information coming from the global market, for sure, but it seems like every situation is different. What's the data telling you? Just in terms of, okay, we're coming into the spring and the summer months, maybe it'll come down a little bit. Everybody says it... We fully expect it to come back in the fall, go back to college, don't go back to college. What is the data telling you at this point in time with an understanding that, you know, we're still iterating every day? >> Well, I think I mean, we're not epidemiologists, but at the same time, the science of it is a highly local response, very hyper local response to COVID-19 is what we've seen. Santa Clara, which is just a county, I mean, is different from San Francisco, right, sort of. So you beginning to see, like we saw in Brooklyn, it's very different, and Bronx, very different from Manhattan. So you're seeing a very, very local response to this disease, and I'm talking about US. You see the likes of Brazil, which we're worried about, has picked up quite a bit of cases now. I think the silver lining I would say is that China is up and running to a large degree, a large number of our user base there are back active, you can see the traffic patterns there. So two months after their last research cases, the business and economic activity is back and thriving. And so, you can kind of estimate from that, that this can be done where you can actually contain the rise of active cases and it will take masking of the entire community, masking and the healthy dose of increase in testing. One of our offices is in Prague, and Czech Republic has done an incredible job in trying to contain this and they've done essentially, masked everybody and as a result they're back thinking about opening offices, schools later this month. So I think that's a very, very local response, hyper local response, no one country and no one community is symmetrical with other ones and I think we have a unique situation where in United States you have a very, very highly connected world, highly connected economy and I think we have quite a problem on our hands on how to safeguard our economy while also safeguarding life. >> Yeah, so you can't just, you can't just take Norway and apply it or South Korea and apply it, every situation is different. And then I want to ask you about, you know, the economy in terms of, you know, how much can AI actually, you know, how can it work in this situation where you have, you know, for example, okay, so the Fed, yes, it started doing asset buys back in 2008 but still, very hard to predict, I mean, at this time of this interview you know, Stock Market up 900 points, very difficult to predict that but some event happens in the morning, somebody, you know, Powell says something positive and it goes crazy but just sort of even modeling out the V recovery, the W recovery, deep recession, the comeback. You have to have enough data, do you not? In order for AI to be reasonably accurate? How does it work? And how does at what pace can you iterate and improve on the models? >> So I think that's exactly where I would say, continuous modeling, instead of continuously learning continuous, that's where the vision of the world is headed towards, where data is coming, you build a model, and then you iterate, try it out and come back. That kind of rapid, continuous learning would probably be needed for all our models as opposed to the typical, I'm pushing a model to production once a year, or once every quarter. I think what we're beginning to see is the kind of where companies are beginning to kind of plan out. A lot of people lost their jobs in the last couple of months, right, sort of. And so up scaling and trying to kind of bring back these jobs back both into kind of, both from the manufacturing side, but also lost a lot of jobs in the transportation and the kind of the airlines slash hotel industries, right, sort of. So it's trying to now bring back the sense of confidence and will take a lot more kind of testing, a lot more masking, a lot more social empathy, I think well, some of the things that we are missing while we are socially distant, we know that we are so connected as a species, we need to kind of start having that empathy for we need to wear a mask, not for ourselves, but for our neighbors and people we may run into. And I think that kind of, the same kind of thinking has to kind of parade, before we can open up the economy in a big way. The data, I mean, we can do a lot of transfer learning, right, sort of there are new methods, like try to model it, similar to the 1918, where we had a second bump, or a lot of little bumps, and that's kind of where your W shaped pieces, but governments are trying very well in seeing stimulus dollars being pumped through banks. So some of the US case we're looking for banks is, which small medium business in especially, in unsecured lending, which business to lend to, (mumbles) there's so many applications that have come to banks across the world, it's not just in the US, and banks are caught up with the problem of which and what's growing the concern for this business to kind of, are they really accurate about the number of employees they are saying they have? Do then the next level problem or on forbearance and mortgage, that side of the things are coming up at some of these banks as well. So they're looking at which, what's one of the problems that one of our customers Wells Fargo, they have a question which branch to open, right, sort of that itself, it needs a different kind of modeling. So everything has become a very highly good segmented models, and so AI is absolutely not just a good to have, it has become a must have for most of our customers in how to go about their business. (mumbles) >> I want to talk a little bit about your business, you have been on a mission to democratize AI since the beginning, open source. Explain your business model, how you guys make money and then I want to help people understand basic theoretical comparisons and current affairs. >> Yeah, that's great. I think the last time we spoke, probably about at the Spark Summit. I think Dave and we were talking about Sparkling Water and H2O or open source platforms, which are premium platforms for democratizing machine learning and math at scale, and that's been a tremendous brand for us. Over the last couple of years, we have essentially built a platform called Driverless AI, which is a license software and that automates machine learning models, we took the best practices of all these data scientists, and combined them to essentially build recipes that allow people to build the best forecasting models, best fraud prevention models or the best recommendation engines, and so we started augmenting traditional data scientists with this automatic machine learning called AutoML, that essentially allows them to build models without necessarily having the same level of talent as these Greek Kaggle Grand Masters. And so that has democratized, allowed ordinary companies to start producing models of high caliber and high quality that would otherwise have been the pedigree of Google, Microsoft or Amazon or some of these top tier AI houses like Netflix and others. So what we've done is democratize not just the algorithms at the open source level. Now, we've made it easy for kind of rapid adoption of AI across every branch inside a company, a large organization, also across smaller organizations which don't have the access to the same kind of talent. Now, third level, you know, what we've brought to market, is ability to augment data sets, especially public and private data sets that you can, the alternative data sets that can increase the signal. And that's where we've started working on a new platform called Q, again, more license software, and I mean, to give you an idea there from business models endpoint, now majority of our software sales is coming from closed source software. And sort of so, we've made that transition, we still make our open source widely accessible, we continue to improve it, a large chunk of the teams are improving and participating in building the communities but I think from a business model standpoint as of last year, 51% of our revenues are now coming from closed source software and that change is continuing to grow. >> And this is the point I wanted to get to, so you know, the open source model was you know, Red Hat the one company that, you know, succeeded wildly and it was, put it out there open source, come up with a service, maintain the software, you got to buy the subscription okay, fine. And everybody thought that you know, you were going to do that, they thought that Databricks was going to do and that changed. But I want to take two examples, Hortonworks which kind of took the Red Hat model and Cloudera which does IP. And neither really lived up to the expectation, but now there seems to be sort of a new breed I mentioned, you guys, Databricks, there are others, that seem to be working. You with your license software model, Databricks with a managed service and so there's, it's becoming clear that there's got to be some level of IP that can be licensed in order to really thrive in the open source community to be able to fund the committers that you have to put forth to open source. I wonder if you could give me your thoughts on that narrative. >> So on Driverless AI, which is the closest platform I mentioned, we opened up the layers in open source as recipes. So for example, different companies build their zip codes differently, right, the domain specific recipes, we put about 150 of them in open source again, on top of our Driverless AI platform, and the idea there is that, open source is about freedom, right? It is not necessarily about, it's not a philosophy, it's not a business model, it allows freedom for rapid adoption of a platform and complete democratization and commodification of a space. And that allows a small company like ours to compete at the level of an SaaS or a Google or a Microsoft because you have the same level of voice as a very large company and you're focused on using code as a community building exercise as opposed to a business model, right? So that's kind of the heart of open source, is allowing that freedom for our end users and the customers to kind of innovate at the same level of that a Silicon Valley company or one of these large tech giants are building software. So it's really about making, it's a maker culture, as opposed to a consumer culture around software. Now, if you look at how the the Red Hat model, and the others who have tried to replicate that, the difficult part there was, if the product is very good, customers are self sufficient and if it becomes a standard, then customers know how to use it. If the product is crippled or difficult to use, then you put a lot of services and that's where you saw the classic Hadoop companies, get pulled into a lot of services, which is a reasonably difficult business to scale. So I think what we chose was, instead, a great product that builds a fantastic brand, that makes AI, even when other first or second.ai domain, and for us to see thousands of companies which are not AI and AI first, and even more companies adopting AI and talking about AI as a major way that was possible because of open source. If you had chosen close source and many of your peers did, they all vanished. So that's kind of how the open source is really about building the ecosystem and having the patience to build a company that takes 10, 20 years to build. And what we are expecting unfortunately, is a first and fast rise up to become unicorns. In that race, you're essentially sacrifice, building a long ecosystem play, and that's kind of what we chose to do, and that took a little longer. Now, if you think about the, how do you truly monetize open source, it takes a little longer and is much more difficult sales machine to scale, right, sort of. Our open source business actually is reasonably positive EBITDA business because it makes more money than we spend on it. But trying to teach sales teams, how to sell open source, that's a much, that's a rate limiting step. And that's why we chose and also explaining to the investors, how open source is being invested in as you go closer to the IPO markets, that's where we chose, let's go into license software model and scale that as a regular business. >> So I've said a few times, it's kind of like ironic that, this pandemic is as we're entering a new decade, you know, we've kind of we're exiting the era, I mean, the many, many decades of Moore's law being the source of innovation and now it's a combination of data, applying machine intelligence and being able to scale and with cloud. Well, my question is, what did we expect out of AI this decade if those are sort of the three, the cocktail of innovation, if you will, what should we expect? Is it really just about, I suggest, is it really about automating, you know, businesses, giving them more agility, flexibility, you know, etc. Or should we should we expect more from AI this decade? >> Well, I mean, if you think about the decade of 2010 2011, that was defined by software is eating the world, right? And now you can say software is the world, right? I mean, pretty much almost all conditions are digital. And AI is eating software, right? (mumbling) A lot of cloud transitions are happening and are now happening much faster rate but cloud and AI are kind of the leading, AI is essentially one of the biggest driver for cloud adoption for many of our customers. So in the enterprise world, you're seeing rebuilding of a lot of data, fast data driven applications that use AI, instead of rule based software, you're beginning to see patterned, mission AI based software, and you're seeing that in spades. And, of course, that is just the tip of the iceberg, AI has been with us for 100 years, and it's going to be ahead of us another hundred years, right, sort of. So as you see the discovery rate at which, it is really a fundamentally a math, math movement and in that math movement at the beginning of every century, it leads to 100 years of phenomenal discovery. So AI is essentially making discoveries faster, AI is producing, entertainment, AI is producing music, AI is producing choreographing, you're seeing AI in every walk of life, AI summarization of Zoom meetings, right, you beginning to see a lot of the AI enabled ETF peaking of stocks, right, sort of. You're beginning to see, we repriced 20,000 bonds every 15 seconds using H2O AI, corporate bonds. And so you and one of our customers is on the fastest growing stock, mostly AI is powering a lot of these insights in a fast changing world which is globally connected. No one of us is able to combine all the multiple dimensions that are changing and AI has that incredible opportunity to be a partner for every... (mumbling) For a hospital looking at how the second half will look like for physicians looking at what is the sentiment of... What is the surge to expect? To kind of what is the market demand looking at the sentiment of the customers. AI is the ultimate money ball in business and then I think it's just showing its depth at this point. >> Yeah, I mean, I think you're right on, I mean, basically AI is going to convert every software, every application, or those tools aren't going to have much use, Sri we got to go but thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and the great work you guys are doing. Really appreciate your insights. stay safe, and best of luck to you guys. >> Likewise, thank you so much. >> Welcome, and thank you for watching everybody, this is Dave Vellante for the CXO series on theCUBE. We'll see you next time. All right, we're clear. All right.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. You are live here on the CUBE as we're wrapping up our coverage here at Dell Technologies World 2018. We are in The Sands. We're live in Las Vegas for 14,000 plus attendees. Four thousand I think at the business partners summit. Really well attended, the solutions expos floor still crowded, and some really neat stuff inside there. Along with John Troyer, I'm John Walls, and we're joined by Doug Schmitt, who's the president of the global services at Dell EMC. Doug, thanks for joining it, we appreciate it. >> Well, thanks for having me, John. >> Yeah, let's talk about global services, alright? First off, I mean, big waterfront, right? That's pretty broad. Tell us about how you segment the responsibilities and what all that means. >> Well yeah, so the overall services family really has four groups in it. It has a consulting team, as you imagine, has an education services team, we have Virtustream, for cloud, helps manage the cloud for our customers. And then my team and I have responsibility for support, deployment services, installations, and also manage services. Good size team, in the sense of helping our customers, around 60,000 direct and indirect team members in 180 countries. >> So, say, 100 plus, right, almost 200 countries. We had somebody on from the global side yesterday and we just barely nicked into this a little bit, but I was interested what you think about it, on a global basis, at least we tend to think of the US, right, and I mean, it's US-centric. But you've got to deal with, you know, EU compliance and different kinds of governance, and of course different work cultures, different government, different governance, what have you. So, complicated, right? I mean, this is not easy stuff, to be able to bring the product to a different culture, different mindset, right? >> Well, that's, yes. I mean, what you're asking is yes, the complexity is there, which is that it really, but that's the value we bring to our customers. One is, believe it or not, the size and the scope helps us build better products. The feedback from our customers across multiple channels, whether it be through the data we get back through PhoneHome and AI helps us build better products globally, as well as help our customers. The calls we get in, social media, we're able to really aggregate that, take all that data and that information, build better products, and custom build the solutions for the regions or the countries that we're in. So there's, yes, the complexity has some minuses, but it has actually more pluses in helping us build better services, solutions, and products for our customers. >> Could you give me an idea of something you picked up from somewhere else, that turned out to be useful, across the board, or just maybe something that you hadn't thought of, whether it was some response of a customer in a different work environment, that you could apply across the board? Does anything come to mind like that? >> Well yeah, I think you look at things like WeChat in China, things like that that are occurring and how they're using both the social media, texting and all of these things about doing business and wanting services, and so that helps us build better social media platform, to listen to our customers. We take those learnings and then apply them globally very, very quickly. Those would just be one example, but you can pick that up across the product and the solution side as well. >> Doug, a couple of things you've said have already kind of sparked my imagination. I mean, support used to be, file a ticket, and if you don't have a ticket, don't bug us, right? And it was very reactive. And already you've talked about a lot of things that are proactive, both the PhoneHome capabilities and other data collection and proactive capabilities. Can you talk a little bit about how your team, you need to be digitally transformed, your customers are, you've got to be more proactive. We can't just be sitting, we can't say, have you filed a ticket, well then I can't talk to you. >> No, that's correct. No, that wouldn't work today. You know, that's exactly right. The customers' feedback to us, and we hear this resoundingly, loud and clear, is look, it's got to be proactive, it's got to be predictive, and it's got to be remote. And it's all about being fast, accurate, and keeping that up time in those environments running. So to your point, what we've really done is, we use that data to predict when a hard drive's going to fail, so if you're a customer, whether it's a server, and by the way, we've taken that technology and put it into the consumer products as well. So hey, we get ahold of the customer and let them know that something's going to fail before it fails, and that's the proactive predictive. And we're really getting that, quite frankly, from the data we're getting back on that PhoneHome, using that big data to then triangulate and build better products, better services. The other thing, though, that we've done, and we continue to do, is, not every customer on that proactive side wants to be contacted the same way. I'll use my family as an example. My daughter wants to be texted. You know, she's got to use text. My wife likes email, and my parents, by the way, still want to be called, because they want it to be explained, what's going on. And so we have to also build in the omnichannel with that predictive and that proactive capability. >> There's been an evolution in the acceptance of talking back to the vendor, you know, machines talking to machines, on prem, over the years. Are most people now at the phase where they don't consider that a security risk, or a privacy, people who didn't understand it in the early days were very careful, everybody's still very careful about what goes through their firewall, but are we at a place now where that's just part of normal? >> I think it's becoming more widely accepted. I wouldn't want to say that everybody's there yet. >> Troyer: Perhaps not the three letter agencies and a few others, things like that. >> That is correct. I mean, you know, look, it depends on the environment. By the way, and that's the key, is using that information to customize the services for those environments, right? And a little bit of, that's a good point, because that's how you want to contact or how much you can do. But we can tailor that for the customers' needs, and using that information to make sure we do that. >> Seems like there may also be a staffing, I'm interested in your staffing, because digital transformation, let's make it real, the entire industry has a interesting competency issue, in that we've got to be all main, we've got to all be current, there may be new sets of skills coming up, we certainly expect on the IT side of the house, your customers to become more skilled at new technologies. But you're in support, the support and installation side, how are you looking at training your people and upskilling your people to be able to deliver that kind of proactive support? >> Well, that's a great question. And I'll take it from two points, actually. One is, as the machine learning and the AI helps us solve what I call low complexity issues right now, moving up the stack every day, to do more complex issues, then what you find is that when customers do contact us, or we do need to reach out to them, it's usually a complex situation, right? And so we spend a tremendous amount of resources continually upskilling our talent in the remote support, deployment, as well as installation, so that they're able to handle that. So spend a lot of time with our education services team, to make sure that we're out in front of all the new technologies and the capabilities. You've heard a lot about remote and virtual learning, where we're on the cutting edge of that as well, that helps us stay abreast and up to date as well. But yes, it is going to take additional time and resources to stay ahead of that curve. We're there, but we want to make sure we stay there. >> And was that something that, I won't say you coax people on or bring them along, but help them understand that if we're on the cutting edge, you've got to be on the leading edge of the cutting edge, right? You've got to be the leader in this, right? In your workforce. I mean, how do you, I guess they're motivated, professionally motivated, right? But you do have to bring, it's culture, and you've got to create a different kind of culture, don't you? >> Well, no, you're right on that. But I think, culturally, what we've always, always had at Dell Technologies, is listening to the customer. And all 60,000 get to hear every day from our customers multiple times, so that in and of itself helps us. We're listening, we hear what the customers want, what we need to be doing to help them. That pushes us to want to stay up on that. Look, you can't be in the services industry, as you well know, without having that natural desire to want to learn, to want to help your customer, and so, look, we have to have the resources and the capabilties inside that education, but culturally, that's been built in, because we listen to the customers. >> And how different is it from the customer perspective than maybe five years ago, 10 years ago, in terms of expectation, in terms of what you, the kind of support they expect to get from you? Has that been altered as you give 'em new tools, you make 'em faster, you make 'em smarter, you make them more agile, but they also, are they turning to you for different things, or a different level of service now? >> Oh, yes, absolutely. And I think that starts with, if you look five years ago, the service was really, I'll call in when I have a problem. First, the expectation is, I want you to call us, before we have an issue, and let us know what we need to do to prevent it, and the second one is, if I do have to contact you, via multiple omnichannels, then I got to have the best and the brightest now, inside the organization. So routing and getting all of those to the right resources at the right time, right? As you're saying, the technical capabilities, the complex environments, the customers want to get to the right person quickly and accurately now, the very first time they get ahold of us. >> Yeah, so Doug, you mentioned, Dell Technologies, right? This is the first Dell Technologies World. It's no longer, I went to a few EMC Worlds, I think I was on the first CUBE back in 2010, at EMC World. That was mostly storage folks, right? Now, you've got storage folks, you've got server folks, you've got VMware here as a big presence, Pivotal was doing things. Systems are more complicated now, so it may be a two-part question, how is the show going for ya? And also, this implication that Dell Technologies is a stack, and there's a lot of IT people now that have to cover more of the stack, and how does that affect your job in terms of complicated cross-rack systems that are pinging back home and need help? That's about three questions in one. >> I think there's a few in there, right? Well, first of all, I think that when talking to the customers, and being here at Dell Technologies World, what we're hearing is actually confirmation on the proactive, predictive, remote support, and also getting to the correct talent very quickly, as you've mentioned, and the education and capabilities of the team. So that's good, because they're validating that. But more specifically to your question about, how does that translate into the real world, to how we're delivering? Well, first of all, with that information coming back and being remote, we can get it to the correct people very quickly. So, yes, it would be far more complex five years ago if we didn't have that technology, wasn't there for us. Now we know we who we need to get it to and who the best person is to solve the problem. And that's really what we're using, and transform to, is that technology helps us get it to the right place at the right time to solve the customer's issue. >> And where do you see yourselves going? As technology evolves, right, demands change, expectations change, global services is going to change. Can you make any kind of, give me a crystal ball prediction here about, this is where we're going to have to be in two or three years out, in terms of meeting that custom demand and wherever they are and whenever they want it. >> Well, yes. Well, look, we talk about transformation and making it real here at Dell Technology World, but we're living that every day as well, right? So we're helping our customers with it, and look, the transformation doesn't just, it's not just something we talk about externally. We're doing that internally, as you're saying, to stay ahead of the market, helping our customers with the transformation. And so as we look forward to that, from a services perspective, what we realize is look, that complexity and the speed is going to pick up. We know that we have to continue to use that big data, as Michael said, is the fuel, we know that's the fuel to provide better service, better products. We want no daylight between services, our engineering and product teams, and sales. And we're using that information to make sure we build better products, that we provide better solutions and better services, faster, to our customers, and we're also using that information and giving it to the sales teams so they can go out into our customers' environments and help them with their transformation. >> And what's the challenge for you in making all that happen? Everybody's got a nut to crack, right? Everybody says okay, this is, so for you, if there's a next hurdle or next barrier for you to get over to be able to deliver on that, what would that be? >> Well, we're using the data today that we have, which is very rich, and we're transforming that into solutions for our customers, but look, that data is, we're getting more of it every day, making sure that we don't obsess about the data, that it doesn't control us, that we're using it, right? I mean, that's part of this, is you definitely want it to be the fuel, but you got to aim it the right way. And I think that's the key, is making sure that we get that pointed in the right direction. >> As you're doing this kind of thing, I'm kind of curious about hiring, right? What kinds of roles are you looking for, to bring in, that can do that? 'Cause that's very sophisticated, data scientist perhaps, that's pulling in people from engineering, you must be able to, are you able to pull on from the rest of the organization like that, or who are you looking for? >> Yes, I've talked about real time questions, right? We could be talking about that one for hours. The answer is yes, and that is a good point. If you look at services now, compared to five years ago, it's hiring data scientists, it's hiring the analytics and the deep analytics folks that can help program. I mean, all of this comes together, right? And so we're working very closely with the schools globally to pull those scientists in, and that's a big hiring competency that we've been focused on for the last four years, and we're going to continue that, we see that continuing down the road. >> Well Doug, thank you for the time. We appreciate you telling the global services story. Great show. And we wish you continued great success, and I assume it's been a really, really good week for you, too, right? >> It has been an outstanding week, so thank you. >> Walls: Excellent, you bet. >> Appreciate having me. >> Joining us from Dell Technologies World 2018, you are watching us live from Las Vegas on the CUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico. It's theCUBE, covering Block Chain Unbound, Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico for Block Chain Unbound. It's a global event, people from all around the world, from South Africa, Miami, Russia, San Francisco, New York, all around the world, talking about Blockchain cryptocurrency, the decentralized internet, and the future of Money, that's the killer app in Blockchain and cryptocurrency. I'm John Furrier, your host, my next guest is Scott Picken, who's the founder and CEO of Wealth Migrate Platform. Scott, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, awesome John, thanks for having me. It's quite an exciting group of people here. >> We met last night, had a great conversation, I really liked some of the things that we were talking about, I wanted to bring you on because being in South Africa, where you're living and working, you have a unique perspective because you see the global landscape. So, I'm from Silicon Valley, we're here in Puerto Rico, America's got their view, the UK just announced a deal with Coinbase for essentially a license to convert funds into separate bank accounts through faster payment mechanisms, basically taking crypto and turning it into Fiat. Kind of a game changer. >> The one thing with the UK is they've been at the head of all of the different innovations over the last five to 10 years. They were right at the head in terms of crowdfunding and they're doing exactly the same in terms of now with the whole cryptospace. And it's actually quite interesting because when you take into account Brexit, they actually really need to do it because they want funds coming into the country, they want to be seen as the future of the banking market, et cetera, so it's actually really exciting. When you look around the world it's fascinating that I said this to you last night, that America really grew because Europe used to have all the controls. And so the capital basically left Europe and were in America and now it's happening 300 years later as America has all the controls and the capital's starting to go elsewhere. >> So America's turning into Europe. And so the potential is to bring, you don't have to say it, I'm an American and we're concerned about it. Americans are concerned that we don't want to be that old guard, like Europe was to America in the America days. So a new liberation's happening. UK's putting a stake in the ground, saying, "We want to get our mojo back," my words. >> Scott: sitting here in Puerto Rico. >> Yeah, they're in Puerto Rico. They're going to put a stake in the ground saying, "We're going to give you tax breaks 'til 2036." This is a money flow game right now. So you've been doing some pioneering work, what's your perspective, talk a little bit about some of the world dynamics that you see because, let's face it, this is the transfer of money, with crypto, it's happening at a massive scale, not just some underbelly boutique underground activities. This is front and center, mainstream, real money, real commerce. Your thoughts? >> I would take it a step back, actually. I think there's eight major macro trends that are all culminating at the same time. So the first one is in the education space, and the whole of education is changing, and it's really becoming gamification, and it's becoming learning while doing. So you don't learn and then go do something, you actually learn while you're doing it. The second one, for me, is the whole Blockchain. And what that's enabling people is getting democratization to wealth and access to assets, whether they're in their country or global assets, basically. The third thing that's really important is you've got the rise of the middle class. You know, a lot of people talk about the unbanked three billion, but what they don't realize is that 1.2 billion people joined the middle class. And they are primarily in the emerging world, they're in Africa, India, China. And what they want is, they want health, they want education, and they want access to wealth. Then you take into account what's happening in terms of collaborative investing. In the old days it was I do it on my own, you do it on your own, we sort of trust the financial industry. Now we're coming together, it's the power of the crowd. I could go on and on, that's just four of them, there's another four. They're all coming together and because this is happening is why we're seeing this metamorphosis and cryptocurrency is the catalyst on top of Blockchain that's allowing this to take place. >> Talk about some of the things that you've been advocating for, I know you were sharing a private story, maybe this may or may not be the right time to talk about it, but you put forth some pretty forthright concepts in memos and letters to folks, and no one will publish it. What are those views, because we've got the cameras rolling right now, share your vision. >> Again, I fundamentally believe that technology can solve grand challenges. And when you take our platform and what we're doing, we're effectively helping the 99% invest in commercial real estate like the top 1%. So what we were talking about last night was, I come from a country, South Africa, I was previously from Zimbabwe, and unfortunately for us is that in South Africa, they're talking now about taking away land without compensation. So land redistribution without compensation. Now, Einstein says that if you want to solve a problem, you can't solve it with the same reality that created the problem. And so I wrote a letter to the President, an open letter two weeks ago, and I said, listen. Why don't we do it differently? You're giving a person a piece of land in the middle of nowhere when they've never been a farmer will not help them get wealthy, I guarantee it. And if I'm wrong, let's go look at Zimbabwe. Which is a economic disaster. What about if we give them access to ownership of a good quality commercial asset that's earning a passive income? That is how you'll grow your wealth. And then add to that, Cape Town nearly became the first city, and it still could be the first city, that literally runs out of water. So why don't you go build a decent ionization plant in Cape Town with government money, allow people that you would give land to actually access to that asset and allow them to have the ownership? And that's sort of the concept, where you just think about it completely different. And you allow technology to actually give people what they want, which is wealth and prosperity for their family, and not just a farm in the middle of nowhere. >> And you're really addressing, I think, the incentive system combined with structural change. You talk about gamification earlier, this is kind of the dynamic. How important from an education standpoint, meaning educating stakeholders, old guard or existing governments, because you have this organic groundswell coming up of young people, people with vision that are older and more experienced like us, what's the formula, how do you get this ball rolling? >> So it's quite interesting, I get asked this question all the time and for us, in the first world, a lot of what we're talking about is it nice to have? It's sort of a bit of a game and if I can participate, but where I come from in the emerging world, it's a necessity. There are no other solutions. So if you live in South Africa or China or India and you want to get your money into a first world country like England, Australia, or America, it's very very difficult and virtually no one can do it. But it's a major problem, because you want world preservation, you want your Plan B, you want your children to be able to go to a first world university, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so to answer your question, I think the way it will get solved is in communities where it's not a nice to have, it's a necessity. In terms of educating the old guard, I believe that what happens is you get groundswell, like literally when people really need a solution solved, they persuade governments and regulators to change and it's interesting, coming back to how we started the conversation, that's why smaller countries are often the ones to adopt the regulated new change and, more importantly, countries in emerging markets, whereas first world countries are trying to protect what they have and, unfortunately, the new world is about capital. And its capital flows. >> It's a choice between playing offense or defense, really in my mind it's a sports metaphor, whatever sport you like you know. We love the sports analogies. But this is what UK's doing, they're playing offense. And I think you're seeing other countries wanting to restructure themselves as digital nations because that's what the young people are expecting. So with that in mind, you have a global fabric here at this event, and it's just a microcosm of what we're seeing, which is outside the US, call it the little US bubble that we're living in, Silicon Valley, that's one case I'm wary of, but the growth outside the United States and even in Asia and south of the border, if you will, south of the equator, there's a ton of global action. What is, in your opinion, the few global things that are going on, that people should know about when it comes to how money's flowing and what they can do to take advantage of the trend rather than trying to hold it back. What do we do, is it get into the current? Ride the wave? What should people understand about the new global dynamic? >> So the first thing I would say is, I always laugh at this, but people don't understand how much innovation's going on in China. Like, go and understand WeChat to start off with. It is phenomenal, what is happening. The second thing for me is the global capital flows. When you consider how much capital is moving from the emerging world into the first world, primarily in real estate at the moment. And that's just the top 1% of the top 1%, you know, that's the people with 10, a hundred million dollars. But I've already said to you, there's 1.2 billion people coming into the emerging markets. In the middle class, they're going to want the same things. And so those capital flows are going to be going cross border. I also believe, with time, capital flows will be going from the first world into the emerging world in a safe way but wanting higher returns. >> So then the emerging world, the US has a shrinking middle class, but yet the emerging world has a growing middle class. That's going to attract new entrants. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Well, take into account China. Has China had a big impact on the global economy in the last 20 years? Yes or no? >> Yes. >> How many people are in the middle class in China? Plus or minus? >> Don't know. >> I've heard different reports from 200 million to 400 million, but whether it's 200 or 400-- >> It's more than it was 10 years ago. >> I know, but think about the impact that's had on the global economy. I'm not saying that this is 1.2 billion in the next 10 years, it's either a factor of five to eight, depending on which way you want to look at it. >> How much money, in your guesstimation, if you had to throw a dart at the board, order of magnitude, is flowing out of China with crypto into other assets? >> In the crypto space that's fascinating, because a lot of it is hard to tell, actually. In real estate last year alone, it was just short of 30 billion dollars went into commercial real estate from China. Now what's interesting is that a lot of that money is sort of gray, like no one actually knows where it's coming from, which is why China tightened it up so much. It's also why they tightened up the crypto side of things. Because a lot of people want to get their money out of the country and into first world economies, and that's why, in the emerging world, cryptocurrencies have been embraced more, actually, than in the first world. >> John: It's a faster way to move that money. >> Coming back to necessity. So in South Africa, in Zimbabwe, in China you pay more for Bitcoin than you do in America or Europe. I don't know if you know that. >> John: No, I don't know that. >> And by quite a lot. Like in Zimbabwe you pay nearly double. So a lot of people are making money by overcharging coins. They buy them in Europe, they sell them in South Africa, they sell them in Zimbabwe, they sell them in Nigeria. >> So the demand to move the money out of country is very high. >> Well, because they've got capital controls. So they have currency controls. So you're only allowed to move a certain amount of capital out of the country legally. So what happens now, you buy cryptocurrency and you can effectively invest in assets around the world. And you literally started off this conversation, right in the beginning, there's a democratization in terms of capital flows and what's happening, and people are going to put their capital where they want to. And governments, I believe, are not going to be able to control it by putting up controls, they're going to have to make their countries attractive so that the capital's flowing into the country, not out of the country. >> So what's your take on big multinational corporations that have capital structures, have equity positions, and it could be also growing venture-backed or private equity-based companies, they have capital structures, they have equity investors, in some case public, and privates, and unicorn valleys or whatnot, now moving to look at utility tokens as a way to get to a global gamification. So you have multiple securities, a utility, and in some cases a security token a real security. That seems to be a dynamic, are you seeing that on a global scale, are you seeing any activity there, we're seeing a little bit of movement around big companies trying to figure out how to play in crypto. >> From my experience, not a huge amount. I think that most people, they have a board, it's all around reputation, they got to meet the lawyers, the lawyers tell them, you're going to get crucified. And so from my experience, not a huge amount, it tends to be the small to medium enterprises that are prepared to go out and look at it. However, I will say from our personal business perspective, we built our entire company on a community. We've got shareholders all over the world and so for me, when it came to the crypto and the ICO market, that was just doing that more aggressively, effectively, and community-based companies are the future. So whether you're a Fortune 500 company or a start up, it's all about building the community, and I believe that whether it's utility token or security or a combination of the two, it provides an incredible vehicle to ultimately be the catalyst to a community. And if you're the catalyst to a community adding value, then you're going to build a company of value. >> And capture that value. So, Scott, I got to ask you about Wealth Migrate. Talk about your platform. First of all, thank you for sharing your perspective here on theCUBE. It's been fantastic to get that data out. What's your company about? Take a minute to explain what you guys are doing, your value proposition, state of the company, are you doing an ICO, have you had an ICO, what's the status of the company? >> So from Wealth Migrate's perspective, the platform went live in October, 2013, so we're a little over four years in now. We've effectively got members from 111 countries around the world and we've raised just short of 70 million dollars. All though the platform, all on Blockchain. We've facilitated real estate deals of over 485 million dollars and what I'm proudest of, actually, is that we've got a higher than 70% reinvestment rate. What we're doing is we're allowing the 99% to invest like the 1%, our minimum investment at the moment is $1,000, we're beta testing $100, and my dream is to get it to $1. You asked a little bit about the ICO. We built our platform on Blockchain not because of an ICO. Our number one challenge was trust. And ultimately Blockchain enabled us to solve the trust problem. The second thing for us is that my dream is to get it to $1 per person per investment. I want to solve the wealth gap. And I truly believe we can do it when we can allow anyone anywhere to invest in good quality assets. I can't do it with the current system, there's too many friction costs. With crypto and volume I can. >> Whether it's semantics, or education and/or hurdle rate on dollars, it's an interesting concept. You want to make the 99% invest like the 1%. Explain what that means, take a minute to explain that concept. I mean, some people are like, "Okay, I know what "the 1% is, there was a movement about that." So now you're talking about something pretty radical and interesting. What does that actually mean? I mean, empowering people to make more money? Unpack that concept. >> So let me ask you a question. Do you personally own a medical building? >> Do I own what? >> A medical building. >> No. >> Like a hospital, medical building. >> No. >> So it's 2009, I'm in Bondi Beach, Sydney and I meet two US dollar billionaires. I had helped about two and a half thousand people buy houses and apartments in England, Australia, America, and South Africa. And I sat with them and I said, "What are you investing in?" And they said, "Medical buildings." I said, "Why medical buildings?" And they said, "Well think about it. "No matter what happens in the global economy, "people need doctors." I was like, that makes sense. Secondly, they said, "Doctors never move." I was like, that makes sense. Thirdly, doctors are very good at being doctors, but they're not accountants. And so they sign long term, good, favorable leases. Now from a property perspective, real estate perspective, that's a no brainer. And I said to them, "How do I participate?" And they said it's really simple. It's for friends and family, there's eight people only, it's five million Australian dollars each. I was like, now there's the problem. That company today is over 700 million dollars, it's on the Australian Stock Exchange, and it's what I call financial exclusion. You and me don't own medical buildings. Since October 2013, we've enabled people to invest in medical buildings from $1,000. So the top 1% get wealthy by investing in better assets than the 99%. >> John: Because they have access. >> Because they've got access. >> John: And the cash. >> And the cash. But we've dropped the barriers to entry. Because you and I can participate now from $1,000 and I will get it to $1. >> So it's a combination of leveraging the asset based securitization with that opportunity by using a crowdsourcing kind of model, is that what you're thinking? >> So, effectively, and I'd suggest-- >> John: I'm oversimplifying it. >> No, no, 100%, I'd suggest everyone goes and looks up the term collaborative investing which is ultimately, it's a thing that's been going on for decades by very wealthy people on how to successfully invest. We've taken that but we've added a smart component. And why that's important is because in the past you needed 10, 50 million dollars to do collaborative investing, now you can do collaborative investing with $1,000. >> Yeah and what's beautiful is that you understand potentially whose reputation you're working with, you can move in herds, network effect kicks in, that's awesome. >> What gives me the greatest pleasure, I mean, children, my son is six years old, he's already investing. You know, most kids are playing Monopoly, he's playing real Monopoly, and so are adults. And what gives me the most pleasure and pride ever, and what I'm grateful for, is that we're changing people's lives. >> People talk about how to solve the welfare system, all kinds of things, you make people own something, or try to own something or trade, whether they make money or lose money, you learn from it, you're better for it. Here, you're providing a great service by opening the door, lowering the barriers to entry, to potentially wealth creation. >> Dude, I call it freedom. At the end of the day, if you're where you want to live, where you want to send your kids to school, how you want to retire, whether you want to donate to the church or whatever, I don't really care what you want, but I want you to have the freedom to be able to do it. And wealthy people get that freedom by investing in quality assets. And we're just allowing them to do that now. >> And the democratization is multiful, in this case you're creating a new economy model so the whole freedom, democracy aspect is in play. >> Well, I mean if you think about it, when you get into $1 per person, $1 will not change your life. But if you change your habits, you'll change your financial destiny. And so my philosophy is get it to $1, so that every single person can participate. And once you start to learn good habits around money and wealth, the rest just, it's a formula. >> It's a flywheel. Kickstand. Scott Picken, who's the founder and CEO of Wealth Migrate Platform from South Africa, formerly of Zimbabwe we learned today, great sharing the global perspective. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Exclusive coverage from Puerto Rico, this is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier getting the signal here out of all the noise in the market, this is what we do, this is theCUBE's mission, to bring you the best content, best story from the best people, more coverage here in Puerto Rico. Day one of two days of coverage. After this short break, thanks for watching.

>> Narrator: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico It's theCUBE. Covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (latin music) >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound I'm John Furrier, your host, here covering all the action in Puerto Rico as the global society and industry come together. Our next guest is Marhall Taplits he's the Chief Strategy Officer and Co Founder of Nynja.biz, check out their site, Nynja.biz. Marshall, thanks for joining me. >> Thank you. >> So tell about what you guys do. You guys are doing some disruptive stuff, tell us about what you guys do, then it will jam into a conversation. >> Sure, so are you familiar with WeChat in China, for example? >> Yeah. >> Okay great. So I've personally been living in China 15 years, so we've watched kind of the birth of the Chinese internet, which as we know, is a little different than the regular internet. >> A lot of mobile users. >> A lot of mobile users, 800 million China mobile subscribers alone. WeChat, basically, is a platform that started off as just a messenger but basically what it's done is it's integrated into every facet of Chinese society. To give you an example, you go to a restaurant, you scan the QR code, the menu comes up, you pick the food, you pay for the food, it comes, you walk out. Everything like that is in China. Everything like that is in Wuzhen China. So what we've done is we've kind of taken this concept, and we're working on a global version of it, that's cryptocurrency based, and we are working specifically with Chinese companies in order to help them go global as part of the China One Belt One Road program and working with companies like Alibaba, what have you, in order to help Chinese companies go overseas and take what they've built in China but operate globally with cryptocurrency. >> Are you guys in China? Cause it's been hard for companies to start companies in China. So you're living in China or you're working in China? >> Yeah so because we live in Shenzhen, right next to it is Hong Kong. Hong Kong is where our company is based. Hong Kong, as you know, previous British colony, the legal system, and the financial system-- >> And you domicile in Hong Kong, that's where you're based? >> Me personally in Shenzhen, but the company is in Hong Kong. So we also have a Wyoming corporation in the US. >> That's where all the action is. >> That's right >> That's where WeChat is >> That's right >> Alibaba's got Alipay and then there's more business to business with their app. So I get that WeChat's been highly successful. In fact we have a huge following on WeChat, Sou Kanai, Niki Bond, free content. But that brings up the question of Chinese kind of showing the way with mobile expansion, so their users are heavily mobile savy. >> Marshall: That's right. >> This is pretty obvious when you think about it, but in America and around the world, that's going to translate to the new user experience. So in your opinion, how would you describe the expectations that users have? Because you're living on the front end of the wave of what mobile's doing, I mean there's a lot of gamification going on, some if it's kind of creepy, but what is your view of the expectations that users have and what's different about what's currently available in the webstac, and the 20 year old e-commerce stacks, that are out there? >> Sure, I think the most important thing is reducing friction, all right. You don't want to be using platforms where you can not do it wherever you are whenever you are, you don't want to have to go through payment processes, you don't want to have to re-authenticate yourself across whatever platforms you use. And interestingly, when I first went to China, it was all about copying what was in the west over to there, but actually it's kind of the opposite now, right, so we basically want to take this concept of the frictionless digital life, and make it a global opportunity. And especially with BlockChain and cryptocurrency you have that really as an opportunity, because if you look at all the apps that are out there, and the platforms that are out there, the only ones that have gone past a billion users, WhatsApp, Instagram, whatever are the free ones. But as soon as you layer in payment, it becomes very locked. And as big as WeChat is, and as big as LINE is, but ultimately it's locked into the Rem and B system or Reo in Korea, what have you, so the cryptocurrency is really the first opportunity that the world's had to create platforms that can get up to a billion, two billion, three billion users that are able to pay. And we just think that's a once in a lifetime opportunity and we want to be part of it. >> So I got to ask you about the impact that cloud computing has had on this, obviously we've seen cloud computing destroy the data center model, allow people to get time to value faster, mobile on top, big data analytics using data, all this stuff's awesome stuff. So the question is, is that, that's kind of a horizontally disruptive view, so these stacks that are built old way where I got to own the stack end to end, yeah there's some standardization on the lower end of the stack. But now you're thinking about more of a horizontal, I got jurisdictions, I got regions, I got countries, I got sovereignty, all these things are in the melting pot of the cryptocurrency BlockChain, de-centralized applications, are major impacts to all those things. How do you see that playing out because, that's kind of what developers worry about, oh shit will this work on that chain? I got Neo I got this I got that, so the plumbing is totally a moving train right now. >> Marshall: That's right. >> But the business models are pretty obvious. So there's like a business ops thing going on. What Dev opts did for Cloud, you got this new abstraction thing going on with this world. What's your view on that, do you agree? Or what's your take? >> Yeah well you pretty much nailed it. I mean basically what's happening is over the last 10 or 15 years people have finally accepted that having your own server is kind of silly, you know, and most people now will just spin up whatever they need in terms of resources on TheCloud. But over the last couple years, you're really going more toward Edge Cloud, where the way the clouds work, is that basically it's pushing to get the least amount of latency and store the data as close to the user as possible. And then there's also regulatory in some countries now in terms of, if your users are from this country, you have to legally store the data in this area. So this is all kind of evolving. And if you look at the BlockChain technology, I think it's the payment version of that. So for example, everyone's always concerned about getting in and out of Fiat Currency, and how am I going to get back to dollars, and this and that, but I think what's going to wind up happening, is this is going to get pushed towards the edges and there will be opportunities and ways with exchanges and what have you to get in and out. But more importantly, it's going to be like, just other currencies, so for example, I live in China but I come to the US a few times a year, I also travel to Europe, I have some dollars, I have some Euros, I have some Rem and B, when I leave China, I don't immediately sell all of my Rem and B, I just keep it because at some point I'm going to need it. And I think what's going to happen in the cryptocurrency space is, especially on the larger BlockChains, like Ethereum and Neo and what have you, is people are just going to get used to keeping some of it and they're going to stop worrying about what the exact exchange rate is and how am I going to get in and out, and this and that, and they're just going to start treating it as part of their currency stack that they keep. >> Yeah as long as there's some level of stability. It's just like, I remember when I was growing up, there was no Euro, every country had their own currency. You had the French Franc, the Swiss Francs, the Deutsche Mark, Lira, etc, etc. But you're seeing that the viability of the money aspect, cause at the end of the day there's two things that we've identified in analysis, and I was talking about it last night, talked about it this morning on theCUBE, is the killer apps for BlockChain cryptocurrency, these sorts of apps is two things, money and marketplaces. >> Marshall: That's right. >> Everything else is just kind of circling around those two. >> Well there's more but certainly that's the main part of it >> Money, moving around. So the UK just announced with coin based, the Financial Conduct Authority, reading the news yesterday, has essentially said we're going to allow for the fast payment system to convert to Fiat. This is a government, the UK is a nation. This is the beginning, to your point, that if they don't get up to speed, the edge of the network will democratize them and kind of circle the wagons, if you will, so it's already happening. >> Yeah and I think what governments are starting to realize is hey guys this is just a technology and not only do you don't really have jurisdiction to control it, but also that you don't even have the technical means. So Wyoming is a good example of regulation coming into play, that just kind of accepts the presence that this now exists, right. And they're not going to try to make it something and fit it into the old way. So, and in terms of the stability of these coins, I think it is important because people want stability, but in other ways, if you don't look at the exchange rate, it's actually way more stable than the current system, and I'll give an example. In the last month or two, the prices of cryptocurrency have dropped almost 40%. Now if the stock markets and the global affects markets drop 40%, you'd have blood in the streets. But the crypto market is asset based instead of debt based and because it's so structurally sound it's able to handle these wild swings without actually collapsing the system, so in may ways, it's way more stable, and then as the market gaps and the buy in of these currencies get bigger and bigger, of course it's going to be more stable over time. >> Well I mean its stable from a fail standpoint, but a lot of emotional instability. People losing money for the first time. >> But that's just because they're-- >> That's a lot of speculation, right? >> There's a lot of speculating and then if they're down they feel like they lost but, that's life. >> People that are into the game, like you, were long on this. So what would you explain to someone, cause I have two, a lot of friends that have two schools of thought, that's a total scam, don't associate with that, to oh my god, that's the next biggest wave, lets get our surfboards out there and lets get on this, there's a multiple set coming in, it's the biggest thing we've seen, and everything in between. How do you explain it to people for the first time? >> It's just your traditional curve, there's early adopters and what have you, and if you were one of the guys buying up domaine names in the early 90s, you know some people would say I can't believe you're spending $100,000 buying up domaine names, but some of them now are worth, you know, tens of millions of dollars. But again, this is the speculatory piece of it. And there's no shortage of opportunities for speculation and I encourage everybody to speculate a little bit because what it does is it gets you a taste of the technology. And usually, when you have some money on the line, you pay more attention, so if speculation is what gets people interested, and it gets them watching it and understanding the technology and using it, then I'm all for it, but people shouldn't be speculating with money they don't have. Anything could happen in the short term. Nobody knows what's going to happen with any specific currency. But in terms of the technology itself, this is a revolution way bigger than the internet itself. This is where you're getting, not only, communications like the internet, but financing governance and all as one. Programmable money, programmable contracts, that wipes out finance, it wipes out legal, it whites out governance in many ways. So this is a huge evolution in human society, and we've termed this Open Unity actually. And so we believe that society has to reach a state of open unity in order to go into the singularity as we would envision it wanting to be, as something that's under our control. >> Yeah and I think one of the things, first of all that's a great statement, well said. I'll just kind of put some reality on that, connect the dots, is that if you look at the trajectory of cloud computing, Amazon Web Services was laughed at years ago. S3 came out, compute storage building, basic building blocks and a slew more services. What Cloud did for software developers, and what they've disrupted from a business standpoint, dev ops, it's proven. What open source has done, even going back to the old red-hat days and linux, is that now a tier one global citizen in software, you look at those two trends, you can connect that dots to what you just said. And what made Cloud great was they made application developers have access to programmable infrastructure. >> Marshall: Exactly. >> You're talking about a whole nother level of software programmability, money, marketplace, society, >> Yeah you hit it on the head. >> We're there right? >> That's exactly right, so when a programmer wants to start a business, instead of going to create an LLC, and getting their EIN Tax ID or whatever, and when they want to go into Europe, and dealing with that and then trying to open a bank account, which is almost impossible, internationally now, instead of that, you just have your SDKs and your APIs or whatever and you've got access to money, program adding, you can take money, you can move money around, globally, frictionless, permissionless, with governancy, smart contracts-- >> They might not not need an SDK dashboard, its a console, click, click, click, smart contracts, governance, turn key. >> And one of the things we're working on with Nynja in particular, is this kind of on-demand marketplace and putting together a de-centralized teams for work. And this is all driven by smart contracts. So one of the issues with the economy is the huge booms and busts that people have in the economy. And if you look at the root cause of that, my personal opinion, is that it's because of payment terms. So for example, if I do work for you, and then there's an invoice, but it's not due for 30 days, now your business may be structurally sound, but the truth is your cashflow is all over the place. With BlockChain technology, we can actually do real time payments. You could be paid minute by minute, hour by hour. Real time, program, contract. So we're going to create very flat even money flows through the entire economy globally, and we're going to just completely remove these booms and busts that are really nothing more than just cashflow issues that are compounded and compounded at a global level. >> I mean I lived through the dot com bubble, I was actually part of it on the front end, on the euphoria side, as well as on the crash. Part of the whole search paradigm, google right there. Key words, all that stuff happening, growth, massive growth. So I saw that, the scammers in there, or the bubble people, that's what we called them. But the reality is, everything happened. It was pet foods online, you could get shopping delivered to your house. So again, to your point, it's a little euphoric right now, but what's different is, is you have now, community data. See what I see happening is, it's not a major bubble crash, because self government, self governing, self governance, is a community dynamic. So I think there's going to be a lot of self healing, inside the networks themselves. You're already seeing it here, a lot of people, bad act is being identified, investors flight to quality, looking at quality deals. Interesting times, your thoughts? >> Well I mean you know, we've been through many evolutions of society, we've had surf-dom, we've had monarchies, we've had representative democracies, we have all these things, and I just think the next evolution is decentralized governance. And we don't even know what that means yet, because it's just starting, but I think we can all, if we can close our eyes and really think about it. I think it's pretty obvious what the issues are with our current system and not just the US, but globally, and I think we have an opportunity here to build in organic program governance. And what's really special about BoxChain technology is if I program it to do X, it's going to do X. So we don't need to, I don't need to know who you are to trust you. I don't need to worry about where we're going to sue each other, or we're going to have arbitration if things go wrong. We're just going to make an agreement, and we're going to program it that way, and that's it. And now the next phase is, I could build on top of that trusting that that's just going to happen. So you can create these chains of trust, and that can happen anywhere in the world. So I think this is a whole nother-- >> Sounds like a bunch of web services. >> Well in many ways, in terms of the architecture, sure you could absolutely think of it like that. >> The reusability, the leverage is amazing. All right, so I want to just end the segment Marshall, take a minute to end the segment, to talk about what you're working on, Nynja coin, Nynja, N-Y-N-J-A .biz, you guys have a product, you got a BlockChain enabled platform, you got a coin, take a minute to explain what you're working on. >> Basically we want to provide the tools and services to help people live in this new reality. So in order to basically function in the world that we're entering into, we're going to need tools that far surpass what's currently available in terms of the messengers, the web sites, all these things. We need to be operating at a level that takes communication completely frictionless, payment completely frictionless, and governance completely frictionless. And we have to put this all together, and that's what we're doing with Nynja. We're staring with a global communicator, which is basically, if you want to take WeChat, telegram, whatever, but we have about 50 additional features that really take communications to the next level. And then on top of it, creating the baseline with cryptocurrency payment, and also smart contract wizards and helping people kind of get these teams going and get paid and organize their financial life in a de-centralized way. So we're just basically going to be the next generation of these messenger type platforms with BlockChain integrated. And what you're going to see is that over the next couple years you're going to get to the first companies that are achieving not just a billion or two billion or three billion users, but paying users, and we're going to be one of the probably three to five platforms that are offering tools at the global level like this. >> And have you got an IC already or not? >> We've just started our private ICO about two weeks ago. We're getting tremendous support in Asia. Quite frankly, the US is not seeing it as much-- >> Is it a utility token or security? >> Utility Token, and I think it's really telling, interesting, coming here. It's the first time I've been doing the presenting. We spoke yesterday at the d10e and we also spoke at d10e in Korea a week or two ago, and the response is incredible. And I think the reason is because-- >> The Asian market gets it. >> Well they're already living in this world within their own confines in terms of the messenger with their payment and governance built in, so when I tell them that we're going to do this globally with crypto, immediately they get it. I'm having trouble here, especially in these five minute pitches which is ridiculous, it's like a chop shop, I don't know how to communicate the idea within this short time frame, so, what I'm looking for while we're here this week is just to find people who really want to take an hour or two or even people like yourself who want to do interviews and just kind of really talk to people and really explain-- >> Well platform is complex, a lot of pieces to it. It's a system, but the value you offer is essentially offering developers, who are building products, for tools that you've built so they can scale faster. That sounds like your value. >> That's right and although I can't say specifically, we're also working on a deal that's going to get us started with about 15 million active users on day one, so that's very exciting and we're really really excited about that. >> And the coins will be utility of measures, what? >> Sorry? >> Well your utility coins going to be measuring what, what's the main token economics that drives the-- >> For the ICO economics? >> Your Nynja Coin. >> So basically we're releasing 5 billion tokens, 45% of them will be sold. There's five cents a token, so the hard cap, by definition is about 112 million, actually we're planning to do the public sale in April, but we may cancel it or postpone it just because the private sale is going really well, but we'll see how that goes. But in terms of once it's live, this will basically be the utility token of the entire eco-system, so anybody, not just within our Nynja App or platform, but even people, I don't know if you know XMPP federation, like back in the day-- >> Yeah you know about real messaging >> If you could think of us as the next version of XMPP federation, but using cryptocurrency in order to avoid bad actors by making it very expensive to do bad things, and very cheap to do good things and globally. >> So it's like Twitter you can create a bot instantly, but if there's coins involved, you'd have to spend to get it. >> That's right and also people could spin up nodes that are basically their own Twitters and decide if those Twitters of their own, their Nynja boxes of their own, are either just internally, or you could specify specifically context or group of context-- >> We agree, that's a great way to get bad actors out because it costs them money. And it's de-centralized, there's no single spot. >> That's right, if email came out today, when cryptocurrency existed, there would be no spam. Because it would be expensive as hell to send more than a few a second, but it would still be free and for everybody generally, and you wouldn't even have spam. So we think we can do that for messaging globally. >> Great. Marshall, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it, check out Nynja. Marshall Taplits is the Chief Strategy Officer and co-founder of Nynja.biz, check them out online. Check out the website, it's in Asia, bringing that culture of mobile and fast moving, real time apps, to the rest of the developers. This is theCUBE coverage in Puerto Rico for BlockChain Unbound exclusive two days of coverage. We'll be right back with more, after this short break, thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Barcelona, Spain It's theCUBE Covering Cisco Live 2018 Brought to you by Cisco Veeam, and theCUBE's Ecosystem partner's. >> John: Hello everyone and welcome to a special CUBE presentation here in Barcelona, Spain, we're live at Cisco Live! In Europe, I'm John Furrier, my co-host Stuart Miniman, Head Analyst for Networking and for Wikibon. Stu we're kicking off Cisco Live in Barcelona It's a European show to the main North America show in the US. But really kicking of 2018 for Cisco and some stark changes to Cisco's positioning. Really, they've always been innovative, but you're startin' to see what they're thinking, in terms of cloud, multi-cloud, IOT, and the role of the network and the networking industry, two different things. Again, we're going to break that down. Day one of two days of wall-to-wall coverage. Again, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, Stu, I got to get your take, yesterday was kind of a set-up day, everyone's kind of coming in for these conferences. Big story was the Connected Women's Conference with DevNet and across Cisco. Great turnout, great energy. And then today the keynote, with Rowan who's up on stage for Chuck Robbins who did not make the trip. Really kind of laying out the vision for Cisco. Your take so far on Cisco, DevNet, the Women's Conference, and the Keynote. >> Stu: Yeah, so John, first of all, I know we're excited to be here. So it's the first time we've had theCUBE at one of the Cisco live events. We've done plenty of shows with Cisco, tons of Cisco people in the alumni database. It's actually the second time I've done Cisco live, but the last time was 2009. And my description in 2009 was you had network engineers that were in their wiring closets or somewhere in a dark dungeon. They kind of crawled out, got their CCIE re-certification, got a couple of free beers and t-shirts, and then kind of went back home after they did some networking. It's a very different vibe here. My question coming into this show is how much is Cisco a software company? Used to, you talk about, Chuck Robbins isn't here, but, Chuck and John Chambers before him used to, they talked about the software innovation and then they'd pull a chip out of their pocket and say we spent a billion dollars innovating on this chip. Now, what was nice here, in the the keynote this morning there was a lot of talk about the future. Software is a piece of it. Intent based, content managing the pieces. Meraki getting up talking about wireless. It's not about boxes, ports, cabling. It is about software, but Cisco's going through their transition, John, how do they go from kind of the quarterly sales targets of working with their traditional partners to this multi-cloud software world. Intent, absolutely a big piece of it. Cisco's got such a broad portfolio, John So much to get into in the next couple of days. >> John: And good points too about the software role and then Cisco's always been moving up the stack if you've been following theCUBE, you know we've been talking about this if you look at the old guard companies, Cisco falls in that category. Okay, the new guard companies, Amazon Cloud, and some new start-ups, they're playing with Cloud economics. They're playing with a whole new generation of software developers. Gone are the days of Waterfall, hello Agile, Agile programming and development. But Stu, the big contrast now with Cloud is the perimeter does not exist. This opens up security, which the number one thing on the keynote that Rowan brought up, as well as the main speakers, this is huge, because now there's no perimeter. Classic networking days are changed. Cisco's always been talking internally about moving up the stack, they're finally doing it. They're doing it fast. And they have to because they're under siege. >> Stu: Yeah, John, dig into that a little bit, I mean, you think back, Cisco was one of the four horsemen of the internet era. It was Sun, Oracle, Cisco, and I'm tryin' to remember who the fourth one was. But, I think Intel was there. So Cisco's been there. Security, always been part of the Cisco portfolio. Front and center, any customer I've talked to, I loved, there was a stat up there that 71% of customers said that security might be impacting innovation for customers. And I joked, I said well 29% are living in hermetically sealed underground bunker if they aren't worried about how security's going to impact what they're doing. Maybe they feel that they've solved it and they're not slowing down because of it but absolutely security front and center, a lot going on in the space. IOT, I have to be honest, Cisco's been talking about IOT for many years and I felt like they kind of for years it was like well there's going to be trillions of devices and we're going to network them. And I kind of said, okay, that's nice, but really how are you solving the business problem, how are you helping me and really that's where kind of the update as to where they're going, where's Cisco positioned to where they have the assets. They made a number of acquisitions in this space, everything from the SD-WAN vIPtela's company we followed pretty closely for a number of years as well as, AppDynamics, we interviewed them at Amazon reinvent, over a billion dollars for that acquisition, really a software company, doesn't mesh with the traditional Cisco model, so a lot of changes goin' on. Cisco positioned for a lot of those pieces but definitely a lot of challenges as well as opportunities for them. >> John: Stu, you mentioned IOT, one of the things that people, if you follow the industry, know if you're a historian, like us, they got it right Stu, their vision of internet, of everything was absolutely spot on, just 10 years too early. They had that awesome campaign, it was more window dressing and vision, but it actually was panning out. If you look at what they were talking about 10 years ago about connecting devices, they pretty much nailed it. However they missed a lot of things. So they didn't whoop the stack fast enough, in my opinion. And two, the Cloud came on really really fast. But now, they're already seeing that as an opportunity But it's a double-edged sword like I said on my tweet during the keynote. They could make a lot of money with the Cloud by doing multi-cloud, but it's a double-edged sword if they misfire, Stu, this could be a problem. So let's talk about that. What does Cisco need to do, in multi-cloud, to really be that TCPIP moment. Because you got all kinds of new dynamics with networking. You got end-to-end, but now you have a surface area including IOT that's everywhere, smart cities, sensors, on-premises, and in the Cloud. All over the place, so this is a huge, complex equation but Cisco's not new complexity, your thoughts. >> Stu: Yeah, first of all John, nice job on premises, we got it right. >> John: (laughs) On prem is the shortcut that I always use, Stu. >> Stu: Absolutely, still talking about data centers, talking about edge computing, talking about those, but Cisco like many of the, hate to say legacy companies, had a little bit of falter when we talked about public cloud. The whole inter-cloud message really was a little bit complicated. We talked some really smart Cisco DE's and got to really understand a little bit, but at the end of the day Cisco really understands they have a huge piece of their ecosystem as the service providers and that's who they're working with. Cisco is not selling to Amazon. Amazon buys from some of Cisco's competitors. But they're not selling to a couple of the biggest hyper-scalers out there and that is a risk for Cisco but huge ecosystem, thousands of service providers, that's who Cisco needs to partner with, that was part of the inter-cloud message and that's been rebooted with how they're doing it. They really look at - in Rowan's keynote this morning it was about the management interface. Cisco's always made lots of pieces, but the challenge is is I've got lots of device managers and how do I get multi-cloud. I'm using Amazon, I'm using Azure, I'm using Google, I've got my own data center. IBM, Oracle, Cisco partners with lots of these companies, how are they going to make it easy and why do they have the right to be in the center of a lot of those discussions. >> John: They partner yes, but I would argue that if I'm going to be critical of Cisco, they got to partner smart in a smart way. So the kind of partnerships that they need to do now is really joint engineering partnerships because if you look at the big whales right now, it's Amazon, Microsoft, and Google. The rest are all either customers, like the Facebook and those guys. But the real Cloud that they really need to go after and don't forget Alibaba and all the Chinese and European Clouds as well, with GDPR, a lot of complexity there as well they got to do partnering at a deeper level. So the new Intel Inside model is over. This now Cloud Inside with Cisco, they got to think differently. This is not an alliance with them as a channel partner or them in charge, they have to come in and understand that they have to peer with these clouds. I mean Google's at such a large scale, I met with them last week their site reliability engineering team is freaking phenomenal. They got chops, they know networking, they got to push Cisco hard. Your thoughts. >> Stu: Look Google, when Google Cloud launched, I said Google has the best network in the world. Stop. Bar none. Absolutely. Their SRE's setting the bar for how people look at these environments. I didn't hear much public cloud discussion. Cisco I'm worrying is a little bit over-rotating towards that IOT and Edge piece. Edge does not get rid of Cloud. Amazon's not goin' away at all. >> John: Cloud and Edge go together. >> Stu: Google, Amazon, Microsoft, you think they understand The Edge and what that's going to take there all of them have a play with devices even Microsoft's phone might have failed, but absolutely they've got applications and they know what's happening at The Edge. Google, come on, who created android. >> John: (laughs) >> Stu: They understand how to get there. Amazon's got Alexa all over the place, Google of course has their smart devices So John, didn't hear anything about voice in the discussion here. They talked about things like telepathy, which was struck me as a little bit interesting. Google has communications, they've got WebEx as a platform. They've got Spark on the phone to be able to communicate. They've got a lot of unified communications. Collaboration, I mean John, I know one of your top contenders, not just the networking of devices but the networking of people and Cisco looks a lot at that. Any take you want to have on that piece of it? >> John: Yeah, I mean, here's my take I love this intent networking concept with context I think they're spot on on that. I think Cisco really needs to add attention and reputation because as you have promiscuous devices out there from IOT to wearables, to automotive, you're going to have trust issues around the network nodes, now that these network nodes are going to have different personas if you will. So if you look at that, I think they really need to add attention and reputation to what to pay attention to in real time and the reputation of say a device or node on the network. That has to be added on top of intent because intent is just contextual and they've addressed that. So to me, that's the holy grail for Cisco. They got to build these new stacks with these new software variables so they can scale both in real time and kind of in typical network way which is normal for them, but real time's where it's at low latency, wire speed, this is the language we understand, but bring it to the cars, bring it to those devices, they got to nail that. So Stu, they have to think differently and I think the re-imagining of Cisco, the vision is about looking forward, Rowan's speech today was awesome on that front. He took us to 2015. >> Stu: 2050. >> John: 2050 I mean, Phenomenal. That is what Cisco needs to do. Show their customers that they're not just a gear company. They can't be gear company anymore. They got to move to the software model, and they got to have proof points. They got to look at apps that they don't want anymore and either get rid of them or double down. It would be interesting to see that Stu, what they will double down on. Is it Spark, I mean, I download the Spark app, I have no friends. Is it a social network or is it a collaboration tool like Alibaba Talk, it's not WeChat. I's not Facebook or Twitter. >> Stu: Yeah. >> John: Applications, Stu, they're kind of looking at The Edge, they have to have a position there, your thoughts. >> Stu: Yeah, so John, I think you're right, I was happy not to see a bunch of boxes up on stage talking about that. Now, not to get me wrong, we're going to be talking about a lot of the networking technologies, were is the - intent-based networking lives on the portfolio Cisco products, there is what they're doing with the service providers what they're doing in the campus environment and from a wireless standpoint Meraki obviously center to what they're doing there. They have - UCS has been the workhouse, really, Cisco in the virtualization age, they felt that they missed out on buying Vmware, but UCS really took the virtualization age and drove them into a market that everybody didn't think that they could get into. Kind of expanded the town, but UCS is kind of plateaued out from a revenue standpoint, and where can they go in the future. You don't see - UCS is built for kind of big workloads when we hear Dell and HP talking about how did they take compute to the edge, haven't heard Cisco saying oh, their architecture wasn't built for kind of those small low-cost, low-margin pieces, so where will they add value and get revenue there, I think hardware gets deprecated over time and it really is software. Where are they going to get that move, first of all they made a number of big acquisitions, but John, we haven't talked about, they've got somewhere between 50 and 60 billion dollars that's going to be repatriated back to the United States this year and that can make them even more aquisitive than usual. >> John: Yeah, they're going to have to definitely take that money from overseas, bring it in like Apple did and then go on a spending spree, but Stu, let's kind of wrap the segment up on the kick-off talk about kind of where they should go and to me the big story out of Cisco and following these guys over the past decade or so you've seen them foundationally rock solid on networking no doubt about it and even UCS, you're kind of critical, but also they've done a good job there. They have the foundational footprint and you're starting to see them move the stack and I think the big story to me is what DevNet's doing going into their network engineering community and turning those guys into modern Cloud native developers, to me, that is critical to Cisco. It's an investment. Is it going to be long on the tooth? Will it be real? To me it looks real. DevNet can transform and create an innovation surge Cisco needs that innovation to come from their own community. They need it to come from new developers while keeping their existing. Because that's going to be ultimately what's going to be built on top of the Cisco foundation, that is the network and to me, I don't think they need to be making a lot of moves right now. I think let the developers be creative with innovation use the cash to buy companies and let those flowers bloom To me that's the model. If they try to do the old internet days where they would just integrate companies in there's not a lot of companies out there they can just plug into their model right now. >> Stu: Yeah definitely John and we've been tracking for years a lot of the software pieces that Cisco's been working in. They've been big supporters of us at OpenStack, in Docker, The Container World, at the Cooper and Eddie Show So Cisco absolutely beating the drum towards that software, it just takes a little while for the big tanker ship that is dominant player in networking to move from relying on that hardware there's that big iron. It's not like they can just flip a switch and say hey, we're software and our margins and our sales are all going to be different. UCS, great, but it kind of reached a high-water mark and where does that transition and move forward to and as you said, partnerships are going to be key and not just lip service but true engineering where are they going to develop where are they going to find there - and DevNet great buzz already. The labs here have been just crankin' non-stop since I showed up. Lots of people diggin' in and not just the old certifications, it's really builders, John is something that you hear the Amazon community talk a lot about definitely the DevNet group. >> John: And the community's technical too, so they love to get their teeth on these demos. This Black Hat demos, there's White Hat demos for security always good. I want to give a shout-out to the connected women's group at Cisco, I attended their session they had yesterday it was kind of a get-together. Very inspiring and as a man, inclusion is very key and Cisco actually, Stu, is doing something really I noticed, they've swapped diversity and inclusion and they call it inclusion and diversity and they recognize that the conversations need to include everyone, then the diversity is just going to be addressed. So shout-out to the women's connected network here at Cisco for that great event and got to great group of people. Also want to shout-out to our sponsors that allow us to come to Europe to get all the top stories here at Cisco Live. That's the Cisco team here on the partner group and of DevNet, thank you to those guys at Cisco. So check 'em out. Veeam, IBM, and NetApp thanks for your support, allowed two days of wall-to-wall coverage here in Barcelona, live with theCUBE We'll be back with more coverage and interviews after this short break. (techno music)

(upbeat violin music) >> Hello and welcome to Special CUBE conversations. I'm John Furrier here at theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto. I'm joined with Jeff Jonas who's the co-founder and CEO of a stealth start-up called Senzing. He won't talk about it. I try to wrestle him to the ground to get information launching later. You're in town. Thanks for swinging by. Former IBM fellow, CUBE alumni. Some great videos. Check out Jeff Jonas, search Jeff Jonas theCUBE on Google and check out the videos. We've got great conversations over the years. Last time we saw you at your IBM event, riffing on, you know, the context of data. You're written and recognized by National Geographic as one of the major, the innovator in data space, which is a big honor, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate it. Couldn't happen to a better person. >> Lucky, lucky. >> So what's going on? Tell us about the new startup. >> You know, I had a great run at IBM. They were really good to me when they bought my company. They were good to me for 11 and a half years. I think it was the longest-standing founder from an acquired company that IBM ever had. Great run and then they were good to me on an exit. I proposed something last, in 2016 in June. I kind of like it was a red pill, blue pill Matrix kind of move. I went hey, I got some ideas, but it's time to go. I've got to get back to my entrepreneurial spirit. Blue pill, red pill and they were like yeah, but you're a fellow. Go to research and live happily ever after. >> You've made it, you're a fellow. Why would you do anything? Why would you be a lowly entrepreneur? >> And it truly is, of all the things I've done, that I'm like wow, that is crazy to happen in my life. That's actually the single highest. It's over a few other things. >> John: It's a big deal. >> It is a huge deal, so. >> But you're an entrepreneur. You're scratching the itch. So what happened with the blue pill, red pill? >> So one of the options was hey, I've been working on this thing here at IBM called G2. It was my next generation entity engine. Figures out who's who in your data, matches identities. We've been working on it for years, I think nine years and I just said, I'd like to go build a company around that and I'll give you a rev share. You'll make more money than if I stayed. They were like, oh that was a great idea. Let's have a partnership, let's do that. So August of 2016, I spun out the source code. >> John: Who was the main executive at that point? Was it -- >> It was Bob Picciano. >> Bob Picciano. >> Yeah. >> He's very entrepreneurial-friendly. >> Yeah and he had to get in alignment across a whole bunch of IBM to make this happen. Anyways, I was really fortunate and the partnership that I had with IBM even to this day is just extraordinary. >> So did they fund you as well? >> Fund, no. I funded it myself for the first five or six months. I took two, money from two private investors that I've known a long time. Really smart, strategic money. Very active in my business. >> John: And you know them. >> Yeah, I've known them for a long time. One of them was a customer of mine. One I sat on the board with. It was just great. >> So the inner circle, they're in the boat. You've got some good people that you know. >> Yeah. Some people are like how do you manage your investors and I'm like, we don't even talk like that. >> We hang out. >> Yeah, we hang out. They manage me. Like, I go to them and, help me. >> That's how it should be, right? >> It's different. >> You don't have VCs on your board? No, but that's the formula. That's what you want. Entrepreneurs these days get so star-struck on having investors, but it's hard work. You want to get people that you trust and you like. >> Yeah, I learned that in my first company. We had two rounds of venture capitals in my first company. I learned a bunch of things, but they were great investors. It was a great relationship. I learned about VC because I had my own money in four VC funds. I've been able to fund four, five companies, but with all of that in mind, I have a really clean cap table. But anyway, we went off to the races since, since August of 2015. >> John: So that's when you left IBM, last time we checked. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And then I went into stealth mode. We've been collecting real customers. We've been iterating on the product. Our calling, if you will. You know, when I left IBM, I sat there with this thing called G2 and I'm like, this is the only thing that makes my team and I special is how to figure out in data, especially big data, who is the same as who across cultures, across languages and scripts and doing it where you don't need a data scientist. You don't need an expert to tune it and I did a survey of about 50 companies out there that are out there in the same business of selling entity resolution and almost all of them say call for a quote because it's all so hard and really, it's hard to find any software that's world class that's less than a quarter of a million and you're going to spend a million and so what we've been doing is working on making it so easy to consume that-- >> You're moving it down from a high ticket item, probably bolted on a ton of professional services to a much more turn key democratized-- >> Yeah, totally. You're absolutely right. Like we don't even have professional services. We're like download it, try it on a subscription license. You pay monthly, we send them the code so no data flows to us and when I, this is kind of funny and it's very private. Oh, I know I'm saying this on your cameras and all, but every team meeting, you know, our mission is smarter entity resolution for everyone everywhere and then I tell my team, what's going to make our company amazing is no one calls us. Everyone loves us and we've been really working on iterating on that. You know, any time somebody has any reason they have to call, that's not a moment of joy. >> You're launching when? This month, right? >> We are launching. >> 'cause there's nothing on the web. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Senzing.com is on the web, but at right this split second, it's a holding site. There will be a better, the real site's coming out very, very soon like in the quarter of the next week. >> Total stealth dark mode. >> We're in really dark mode. Although we've been collecting, again, customers and great logos. IBM's a customer. They license G2 from us. >> And so they didn't put money in. >> No, they did not put money in. I put my own money in. >> I guess they bumped my company and then I put my money in so in some sense, you can say if you followed the money. >> Do they own any? >> No, they don't own any of the company. >> But there's a business partnership. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, got it. >> And it's an incredible relationship. We have all kinds of interesting things we're doing with IBM. It's almost as if I've not left. They just don't give me a paycheck anymore. >> Which is why they're like, that guy's a fellow. Why is he doing it? He's going to go start a company? Why would he do that? 'cause you're an entrepreneur. That's why. Well, that's awesome. What are you working on at IBM with the G2 and I know you don't want to talk about the product and I respect that even though I try to dig at it. But what I really want to do 'cause you're going to launch in a couple weeks anyway. Let's get the aperture of what you're looking at. What market are you looking at? What problems out there, you mentioned entity is one piece. What's the key thing that you're looking at? >> You know, the key thing is that organizations have all of this data in all of these piles and they don't, they're having difficulty knowing about the same person at the same company. And I'll give you one of my favorite use cases that's, you know, G2's been in production already for many years, maybe my favorite deployment to date was deployed in 2012? Yeah, 2012, five years ago, six, for a company called ERIC. It's a non-profit. It's run by states. 22 states put their data in there on voter registration data, and it's used to improve the quality of election roles and it's got my privacy by design features baked into it and I'm just so damn proud of this thing. You know, the Democrats like it, the Republicans like it. I share the privacy community. >> No calls and everyone loves you. >> Yeah, no, that's the truth and this system, it's got a quarter of a billion records of about 100 million people and they have one person in IT that runs the entire IT department including G2. Like this is unheard of. So that's been in production for five years. But the range of companies that are having a challenge with who is who in their data is just everywhere. >> And give me an example of what that means. I'm trying to crop that, who is who like across multiple databases or? >> Yeah, I'll give you an example. See, in the voter registration system, you have somebody's registered in two different states, but it's the same person. You've got to get the data together to realize that somebody's registered in two states and that's because they moved. If you've ever moved between states, you may have forgotten to unregister. Most people do. >> Every person does. >> That's illegal. >> Like 1% would actually go through the motions. >> Lawbreaker. >> Tell the state I moved. >> Right. >> As far as the jury knows, I'm getting a new jersey. What's happening? >> Exactly, so you've got these two piles of data, but we combine it, you see that these two are the same and they're registered in both. So now they have to go back to somebody and say do you want to be registered to vote? But now I'll flip and give you an example of companies. There's a, one of our customers does supply chain risk. They take a vendor, some of the biggest global brands, and in their vendor list of all these customers across the world, there's duplicates in there, and then of course these companies reach the same manufacturers and there's duplicates across these lists but this is messy data. Then they scrape the web and look for toxic spills, child labor and other derogatory data about manufacturers in China, the Philippines, India and this is super messy and then they extract the data off the web, with just a crappy as you can see. We, they got our code on a Tuesday. They didn't call us until Thursday and when they called us Thursday they just said, and what they did was they combined all the data so they can go back to a global brand and say hey, this manufacturer is going to cause you risk to your reputation. So they're resolving who is who. >> You're untangling a lot of messy data. >> Yeah. >> And making it insightful. >> We get insights and we got a, this is an example. They got this offer on Tuesday without a call. We got a call on Thursday and said we canceled all of our internal work to try to mess with all this. We're just using your stuff, it's done. And the last we heard from them, they just went, the quality of your matching you're doing, without any tuning or training, it's a special kind of real-time machine learning that we invented, no training, no tuning and they went, the results it's getting are human-quality. >> So how, obviously you don't want to talk about price points, but it's affordable, it sounds like. It sounds like you're mission-driven on this thing so it's not like getting, you've already made some good dough as an entrepreneur. You're not afraid to make more money, but this is a mission-driven opportunity. >> So many organizations are struggling with this. We are going to make it affordable to the smallest companies and I can't quite tell you the price point. >> It's okay, we're at theCUBE. >> Think order of magnitude life in any other option. >> Can you take care of us? >> Oh, I could hook you up. >> We have duplicates all over the place. >> We'll give it to you and you'll get a towel set too. >> That would be great. Question for you. What's your take on crypto block chain because you mentioned, you know, your customer's a great part of anti-money laundering, big part of, you mentioned privacy baked into by design there. This is now a phenomenon. You looked at China with WeChat. They're making real names, real identities be part of that system. So more and more of this potential attention, public data's going to be out there. What's on your take on, you know, your customer and some of these trends that are involved in this? >> You know, on block chain, what it really is, it's calling, I mean I've seen a lot of people use the term block chain around that just ain't it. 'cause it's got a lot of buzz. >> Buzzword. >> But the reality is, it is a tamper-resistance ledger and I've been writing about immutable audit logs and tamper-resistance ledgers in my privacy by design work before block chain came out, which is really distributed form. The value of it to the kinds of work that we do is a tamper-resistance log allows you to connect it to software so that when say, somebody searches for something, you can record it in a tamper-resistance way and why do you want to do that? Well if you've created an index in some central data, you want to make sure it's not being abused. You want to make sure that the person who's searching is not searching out their neighbor or their daughter's new boyfriend. That would be an abuse, right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Right. So a tamper-resistance auto log would be a great place to put that. That would be a natural thing to do with block chain. >> Awesome. So you got the launch coming. How are you doing and are you doing any of the marathons and triathlons? What are you doing? What's the latest? >> Since I was last on your show here, I became one of three people to do every Iron Man on the world, every Iron Man triathlon. There's one person in Canada. There's one person in Mexico and I'm representing America. >> You're the American representation. All triathlons. >> You know, if you go to the IronMan.com webpage, there's a list of races around the world and I'm one of three that can just look at every single race and say yes, yes, yes. >> Your favorite. >> Austria. >> Why? >> It's beautiful, it's a great course. It was well-run. I had a good time. >> Beautiful weather and people. >> And your worst? The one where you had your bike on a plane and you lost your luggage? >> Oh, I had no, I had a really really dark time this last year at the race in South Korea. And this is how bad it was. It's the only race where I walked across the finish and I sat in the bath tub. This is embarrassing, okay? I sat in this bath tub with the shower thing that you have to hand-hold over my head and I was trying to cry 'cause I was so defeated, but I was too dehydrated to even cry. The level of failure. >> It just knocked you down. >> When you can't even cry. >> Well you know you went from IBM Fellow to lowly entrepreneur, how's it feel? I mean you're back, rolling your sleeves up, getting down and dirty. Fun, having a blast? >> I really love being a benevolent dictator. >> John: How many people on the team? >> We're like about 16 if you count people that are full time or half time or better. I have a few people who are half time or better so yeah, about 16. >> Sounds like fun. >> Great fun. >> Great, Jeff Jonas. We'll be looking forward to your launch Senzing.com. S-E-N-Z-I-N-G.com. Former IBMer, great to see you and we'll keep you in touch. And where are you going to be headquartered out of? What's the location? >> Venice Beach, California, where I live. Although my team is scattered all over the country. We also are licensed in Singapore and we are hoping to launch Senzing Lab's RND activities out of Singapore. >> Alright, so we'll pop down to LA to check you out when you're up and running. Okay, Jeff Jonas stopping by theCUBE here on a great Thought Leader Thursday. I'm John Furrier. Every Thursday, we do the Thought Leader interviews with friends, colleagues, CUBE alumni and more. Always look up to great people. Have to be a thought leader, have to have original content and be an innovator. Thanks for watching. (upbeat violin music)

>> Narrator: Live from Nice, France. Its the Cube, covering .Next Conference 2017, Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching, Silicon Angle Medias production of the Cube. World Wide leader in live tech coverage. Happy to welcome to the program, first time guest, Anja Manuel, who's a Co-founder and partner at, Rice Hadley Gates. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Anja: Thank you for having me, Stu. >> So, I've attended all five of the Nutanix conferences. And definitely, when we get a speaker at the Key Note from R.H.G. is one of the highlights. So, Condoleezza Rice, everybody's like, how does Nutanix get Condie Rice to come in? Robert Gates, we've actually had the pleasure of having him on the Cube. We've had Stephen Hadley on in D.C. also. And a little bit different conversation than some of the, kind of, in the weeds technical discussion. So, Anja for our audience that's not familiar, give us a little bit about your background, what you led you in to be one of the founders. >> Absolutely. Well, I've done a bit of everything. I've been an investment banker, a lawyer doing international cases. I have worked at the State Department for Condie Rice, mostly on Asia issues. And, then at the very end of 2008, Condie, Steve and I founded this firm. And we feel very lucky to be working with each other and some of the great, young and already, some already large, some fast growing tech companies in the Valley. And helping them expand around the world. And it's been a particular pleasure to work with Dheeraj and his team at Nutanix. When we started with them, they were a couple hundred people. And now look around, you've got 2,000 people at this conference. So, we're very proud of them. >> Yeah, absolutely. Great growth for Nutanix, their eco-system's blossoming. One of the jokes I always have here on the Cube is, when I talk to any end user customers, its like, well your industry's not changing that much, right? And of course, it doesn't matter what industry you're in. Digital disruption is more than just what it's affecting. Globalization is just a fact of life. It brings, especially for a lot our audiences, USA based, we reach a global audience. But when we come to some of these international events, it really puts a point on some of the things going on globally. What're you talking to, when you speak to the CIOs and you're talking to Nutanix customers and partners, what are some of the big challenges? What are the things that they need to be looking at? >> Sure, globalization is happening and of course, it's more pronounced in tech. This is the first industry that really shows no sectoral boundaries. The big platform companies can basically go into any industry sector and no geographic boundaries. It's very easy to expand internationally. So, what I'm going to be talking about today on the main stage is just globalization and its backlash. As you know we've seen, after decades of evermore, open boarders, increase trade, easier immigration, and the last year or two, you've seen really the West in sort of, what I would call a defensive crouch. And there are real reasons for it in the US where you and I both live. If you are a white male, who has a high school education or less, you live on average, 10 years less than all of the very highly educated people in this room. And there is a real issue of people being left behind. And you can see that impact politically. You see it in the US, with Trump, and I would also argue on the left with Bernie Sanders. You see it with Brexit. You see it in the impact that Marine Le Pen and Aten a Tiva for Deutschland and others have had on European politics. And I would say that impact is strong, even though those right wing parties in Europe didn't win, they're setting the agenda much more than you would've seen 10 years ago. So it's something for the tech companies to consider as they keep expanding. >> Yeah, it's a trade. On the one hand, you said that there's no boundaries for tech, but one of the things a lot of the tech community, we look at, is some of those fragments that are happening. So, like, the internet. Is the internet a global internet or does China have their own internet? Will Germany just create their own internet? And how much is governance, and having data something we look and Nutanix looks at a lot, require that you have it within those boarders, and the boundaries between government and corporations now? There's certain countries where governments are heavily involved and certain ones where it almost feels that they're fighting. In the US, it's, is the government actually helping business or stopping business? >> That's right. >> Is something that we ask a lot. So I'm curious, your thoughts. >> Well, right now, we still have one global interoperable internet and that has been a huge boon to economies all around the world. Not just the American one. And it's this little known organization called ICANN, which was started in the 1990s. It has a convoluted thing called the multi stake holder model, where they say, we're going to get people, the technologists who are working on this and GOs and governments and everyone talking about how do we actually manage this thing and make sure that it stays interoperable and global. And I'm quite happy that that system of internet governance still stands and that it hasn't been taken over by individual governments or by the United Nations. You talked about data localization. It's a real issue. We see this with a lot of the tech companies that we work with out in California. More and more. You see the Russians doing it. You see the Chinese doing it. And I worry that if that trend really continues, you will have less interaction, for example, between Chinese and Americans, which is something we so dramatically need, now that our governments seem to be more and more at odds with each other. It's more important than ever that the companies and the people are talking to each other. >> Yeah, I actually, we interviewed the former president of ICANN, Fadi Chehade, a couple of years ago and he was raising red flags as to concern about would the US step back. Cause really, it put that in place, and had a very strong connection there. So would the US, kind of, advocate from some of this or how would that be involved? So you're happy with the way ICANN's going and kind of the global discussion? >> I was very happy to see that the United States allowed it to be privatized. Which is something that'd been planned for a long time. So we're quite happy that it happened the way it did. And that even the new Trump administration didn't stop that from going through, yeah. >> All right, you've written a lot about India, some of the others. How do companies, even in the global market place? Do they have to specialize in what they're doing? Certain regionalizations, that they need to do or how do they, global company, interact in some of the more emerging markets? >> Yeah, they do have to specialize. And I think sometimes, in Silicon Valley, we're so confident in our own abilities that sometimes we think, well if it's invented here, naturally the world will love it. That worked for Facebook. It worked for Google. It doesn't necessarily work for every technology company. And so, yes, of course you have to tailor it to the local market. And there are some innovations coming out of China and India that are, frankly, really impressive and we should adopt some of them. And China, the web payments infrastructure is much more advanced than what you see in the US. Lots of people do everything through their WeChat account. They pay, they interact, they talk. It's not just texting. It's a whole echo system in a way that we haven't really seen as much in the US and Europe. So we can learn from them as well. >> Yeah so another interesting topic is, Silicon Valley prides itself on being the center of innovation. What're you seeing globally, are there certain areas or pockets? Can there be other Silicon Valleys for different technologies or is Silicon Valley going to be the Silicon Valley for all of these waves? >> Well, we are the biggest Silicon Valley. And it is a very unique eco-system. I'm lucky enough to teach at Stanford and to work with some of these tech companies. The idea that a university and a venture capital eco-system and entrepreneurs all work together in something that isn't directed by the state is very very important. And you do see these springing up everywhere. You have it in Bangalore. You have it in Boston, where you're from. You have it outside of London. You're seeing a little bit in Berlin happening. You're seeing it in China in a much bigger way than I think people appreciate. I'll give you one story. I was at the Chinese World Internet Forums, sort of their vision of the world internet, a year and a half ago. And I get back to my hotel at midnight, ready to just go to bed, and there are a thousand people in the lobby. All with their phones out. And I'm wondering, who's coming? Is it Xi Xin Ping? Is it some rock star? In walks Jack Ma and the CEO of Xiaomi phones. And a huge shout goes up as if it's the Beatles. So if you're a young millennial Chinese person, you want to be Jack Ma. So innovation fever has captured them as well. >> Yeah, what about companies being global versus being based in a country? What advice do you give to how they balance that headquarters versus being a global company? >> Yeah, this is one of the ironies and all the protectionist talk you see from governments because I think the cat is out of the bag. So to speak. Every company we work with, even the very young ones, they're global from the very beginning. Even if you think your headquarters are in New York or in California, you're supply chain most likely, incorporates 10 different countries. Your customers are somewhere else. Maybe you don't advertise it because you try to be an all American company or all European company, but there's actually no such thing as a domestic company anymore. >> I want to give you the final word. Nutanix, you give some advice. I'm sure there's things we can't talk about. But how are they doing as being a global company? What are some of the things a company like Nutanix that they'll face as they expand globally? >> Yeah, Nutanix is very impressive. First of all, if you look at Dheeraj and Sudheesh and their senior management team, what I love about working with them, is that they are good technically, they're great at the people to people skills and they are instantly global just like we just talked about. If you look at their management team, they're from all over the world. And they very quickly got people out into all the different regions. I think they try to be sensitive to how their product would be used in different places around the world. So I'm quite optimistic about what they're going to be able to achieve. >> Okay, I do have one last question for you. I was just thinking about that globalization. One of the concerns we have these days is getting enough women in tech and with your global viewpoint, just women in the workforce is still something that we're challenged with in many parts of the globe. What's your take? >> Yeah, strangely, women in the workforce are doing better in China, for example, than in the US, Europe, India, other places. I love living and working in Silicon Valley. We really have a problem. And we need to do more. And it's on the stem side. It's on the investor side. You've seen all of the news coming out about how it's so much harder for a woman entrepreneurs to get funded. There's no reason. There's actually a recent study done saying that women who get funded, their companies do, on average, far better than companies founded by men. So clearly there's some problem going on here and I'm happy that Silicon Valley's finally paying attention. >> Well Anju Manuel, really appreciate you joining us for this segment. I'm Stu Miniman and we will be back with more coverage here from Nutanix .Next in Nice, France. You're watching the Cube.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience, 2017. Brought to you by, Oracle. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Peter Burris, and once again theCUBE is here at Oracle Modern Marketing... Modern Customer Experience, having a great series of conversations about the evolution of marketing, the role technology is playing, and especially important, the centerpiece that data now has within a overall orientation towards customer experience. Now one of the key features of that notion of customer experience is what's going on with service. And this is a great session, because we've got a representative from Oracle, but also a customer, as well. Welcome to Steve Fioretti, who's the VP of Product Management, Oracle Service Cloud and Heather Miksch, who's the Vice President of Field and Product Operations at Carbon. >> Thank you. >> Peter: Welcome to the (mumbles) >> Thanks. >> Glad to be here. >> So, Steve why don't we start with you. >> Steve: Sure. >> Oracle is here talking about how the cloud can help transform field and service operations. >> Steve: Right. >> How is it transforming it, what're the trends? >> Well, there's a lot of interesting trends that are affecting customer service, and I would, you talked about marketing and a lot of people say customer service is the new marketing. A lot of, a lot of interactions that people have with a company is in the customer service group and that really affects their impact on the brand. And there's a lot of things going on in the industry that are affecting customer service. There's new dynamic channels emerging, for example, people want to use Facebook Messenger, or WeChat, or WhatsApp as customer service channels to interact with their brand. It's much beyond just email, phone, chat, things like that. So, new channels are emerging and companies have to think about how do I integrate that into my customer service organization. Automation has really come into the fore. So, you know, in our personal lives we use Siri, and other V, you know, interactions we have with Alexa. So, those are coming into businesses to automate those, perhaps more simple, customer service processes. The internet of things is really taking off, where connected devices are allowing organizations to deliver predictive and proactive service. And on the automation front, they're even extending to where organizations are taking robotics and making robots agents in a retail store, for example. >> Are you talking about me? >> Wow it's Pepper. Hi, Pepper, what are...(Peter laughs) I didn't know you were here, that's awesome. So, Pepper, I'll ask you a question. What makes you a great Customer Service Agent? >> I'm smart, I'm connected, and I'm cool and, most importantly, I'm effective. (Steve laughs) >> And we replaced John Furrier with Pepper. >> Steve: Excellent.(Heather laughs) >> So, going to the next question about the, as we use robotics, as we use many of these things: we have to remember that these are not magic, they're really is no intelligence, in the classical sense, in them, they are still being driven to perform functions, take action, based on the availability of data that is coming off of customers. So talk a bit about the role the data, data integration, and some of these new tools: AI, or Adaptive Intelligence as you're calling it, are playing in ensuring that we can, enhance Customer Experience with new devices, and these new channels. >> You're absolutely right. I mean, if, you know, it's all about making the experience with a device like, like Pepper personalized and effective, and data, knowing what a consumer wants, what their preferences, and perhaps anticipating their preferences before, you know, they even know that; their past buying history, and taking all that, first-party data and third-party data, combining that with artificial intelligence, to deliver those personalized smart experiences is what's really happening. You heard a lot at this conference about Oracle's Adaptive Intelligence Initiative, and in the context of service, we're going to be building applications for things like account health, predictive field service, so, you know, you can predict ahead of time that a machine may, you know, may need service or break. And, you know, our customer here, Heather from Carbon is going to talk a lot about what they're doing with-- >> Well, so-- >> You know, smarts and the experience-- >> Got it, so how does this resonate with Carbon? >> Well, so, Carbon, is a, we manufacture an industrial 3D printer, and we have a process we call Digital Light Synthesis, which allows us to make photo-polymer materials that are robust enough to use in final production. So, our goal is to take customers from their design, of their part, straight into production, using the 3D printer as a means of production. And the reason why this is so exciting to Carbon, is our printer is actually an IOT device. It operates over the internet, and it operates through a browser. As a result, all types of data, from machine data from the printer, are flowing into our databases; as well as operational data, how long is the print taking, what type of resin is the customer using, how often are they printing, are they running into problems with their print? We've also built in a feedback system for the user, directly in the user interface, that flows directly through our channels into our databases, and it actually opens tickets in our Oracle Service Cloud for agents to contact the customers. The way we use this in a very practical standpoint, to give you one example, is for machine failures. The idea that we can monitor our printers in the field, and we can see if a part is having problems, and might fail, and we can actually proactively reach out to the customer and say, "We'd like to be there "in a couple weeks, change out this part. "It's not affecting your machine yet. "It's not affecting your prints." And, the customer is now able, instead of having unplanned downtime, which can be very difficult for a production environment, they now have planned downtime. This technology is nothing new. The example I like to use is, in the nuclear power industry, you don't wait until you have a core meltdown and then call your service engineer.(Steve laughs) Like, it's been around for for decades. >> Form has been around for a while. >> But what's new, is actually taking this technology and putting it in capital equipment, or putting it in devices like Peppper. I mean, she's also an IOT device; or even putting it into some of our wearables, or just other consumer products as well. And once you actually have this data coming through to the manufacturer of the device, it's really almost limitless what you can do with it. And, just in our short time of Carbon actually working on this problem, we have about 70% of our hardware failures are actually predictive. So that we're able to go out and repair the printer before the customer even realizes they have a problem. And some of the problems, we can actually fix before the customer knows anything, and we can fix them remotely from our offices in Redwood City. >> And it's interesting, theCUBE this week was also at the National Association of Broadcasters, in the NEB show, and we actually had an astronaut present over theCUBE. >> Yes, yes. >> One of the things that's interesting is there are 3D printers now on-- >> There are. >> Up on the Space Station. >> Yes, yes. >> So that you can print things a long ways away. That's one of the advantages, one of the great use cases of 3D printers >> Yes. >> Is that you can actually assemble, or you can create and assemble things, in very very, you know, unfriendly environments. >> Yes, yes. So, being able to schedule, and being able to plan that, is absolutely essential. >> Yes, yes and you can see, so for us, for 3D printers, some of the use cases that our customers are coming to us with, is they are companies, their own capital equipment manufacturers that have hundreds of thousands of spare parts, and they don't want to have to keep these inventories of massive spare parts. They want to have a design sent directly to a printer, maybe it's located in another country, closer to the point of use for that part, print out the part, and get it to the user faster. The idea is to actually move, one of the ideas, is to move manufacturing closer to the point of use. So that we're not spending all this time shipping products, you know, across the entire world, when we can actually be producing them much closer to the user. >> So that suggests, when we think about, again, the role of integration, the role of data, the idea of the Service Cloud; that there will be circumstances in which the part is printed and the capital equipment, Lessor, or the person who sold it, is on site to then put it in place, and assemble it. So now we're talking about multiple people operating very very quickly with a lot of new technology. >> Right. >> And, we now see why these types of devices and the need for that data sharing is so crucial. So, how is Oracle, in Oracle's vision of how service is going to be performed in the future, facilitating these types of interactions. >> So, I mean what we have to do is think about the technologies that are powering devices like robots, that are, providing technologies that are powering virtual assistants to automate customer interactions, to deliver technologies that help customers serve themselves. Another example is, more and more people, particularly younger generation, they don't want to phone. You've got a phone in home, they don't want to call you. They don't want to have anything to do with the phone. So, that's why things like messaging, self-service, going to a website and finding their own answer are critical. So, enabling and anticipating the data, the technologies, the way, the channels that people want to use, are all going to allow brands like Carbon and others to deliver great customer service for-- >> How are you using the Oracle Service Cloud, then, to facilitate many of these changes in your organization. >> So right now, what we have is for... We actually have a database we use for our big machine data. So, all the big machine data comes through, all the data coming off of our printers. And then we've integrated that database into Oracle Service Cloud; so then, instead of a customer having to phone up if they have a problem, we actually have, on our user interface, a little button, it just says "Request Help", that's all they need to do, and it's within the print job that they've been working on. All of that data about their print job: who the user is, what the company is, which printer they were using, how long was the print. Any specific information they want to say about the print, like why they're having trouble with it, it flows through into Oracle Service Cloud, and within the Oracle Service Cloud environment we can open up our big machine database, within that same environment, we can look at the actual print job. And then, we have an escalation tool we use for our engineering team. If we need to escalate, we can do that out of Service Cloud as well. And the idea is that there's very little manual entry of any other information. All of that is just flowing through, and everybody within the organization, whether it's the people that are first in front of the customer, or whether it's our engineers, have access to the exact same data. >> But is the system also then, through the escalation process, saying, well, we really got to get someone at the hardware level, or someone here, or someone at the design level. So you're flowing it to the right person. >> Yes, yes, absolutely. And the other fabulous thing about having these internet connected devices, is even when we do need to send somebody out on site to make a hardware fix, because of the diagnostic data we have from the device, we have, until now, 100% success rate in having the right part on-hand. Which is, if you've ever had much experience with capital equipment repairs, or even a repair of your dishwasher, sometimes the people don't have the right parts. We always have the right parts. >> That's too bad you couldn't >> So far, nothing-- >> print the part with the printer when it's down.(laughs) >> That's an interesting thing. We actually do have some parts within our printer that are printed on our printers, so its (laughs) it's pretty fun >> Can I talk about one other short example-- >> Of course. >> Of another customer that actually Heather's met here at the show, Denon & Marantz, so, they make all sorts of audio equipment, high-end audio equipment, and they've got a new brand of speakers, wireless speakers, called HEOS. And, when they first started, selling those to consumers they noticed, these are connected as well, they noticed that a number of them were having, a chip problem, remotely. People were calling in. So they went out, and they, they pinged, if you will, because they're connected, all of their consumer deployments, and they could tell that, you know, a small percentage of them are going to fail. They actually shipped speakers to those consumers before they even knew they had a problem, and they arranged to pick up the old ones, and you can imagine the value the customer, loyalty, and customer sat that that had. So that proactive predictive customer service example in the consumer world, and in a business world, really makes service that much-- >> Yeah. >> So, customer service, increasingly, is taking some degree of responsibility for ensuring that things operate within the threshold, as opposed to fixing things after they've broken. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Exactly. >> Heather: Yes, yeah. >> So how does that tie back into marketing and sales. So, at Carbon what is the, what is the way these feedback loops are being used to also inform marketing and selling. >> So, the interesting thing is that because we're also gathering operational data, we actually use the data coming off our printers for much more than just a service organization. In fact, our entire company is becoming more and more dependent on this printer data. So, for instance, our product group, when they're looking at bringing out a new feature they're actually looking at the data of the actual prints and the features that the customers are currently using, and deciding, do we need to augment this feature? Do we need to bring out another tool for our customers to use? And then looking at the printer data to make those decisions, and to prioritize what projects to work on because as you can imagine we've just got a ton of projects that we'd like to work on, and we need to make some priorities. The other thing that we're looking at is changing customer dynamics. Like we have, all of our customers are broken down into different industries, and we monitor the different printing behaviors, across industries, and we've been surprised. Like, there's certain industries that have grown faster than we would have expected, and because we've got this data that we look at every single day, we're looking at our customers' print data, we can actually make much faster corrections to either marketing campaigns, or sales strategies, or things like that, rather than waiting for a monthly roll-up or a quarterly roll-up or something like that. >> So who's the steward of data within Carbon? >> Who is the steward of data? We actually have a Director of Business Operations, his name is Chris Hutton. He actually works a lot with Oracle. He recently spoke at the Modern Finance Experience with Safra Catz, and I would say that if anyone's the steward of the data, he's probably the Grand Poobah of this data? But many of us have access to it. I mean, I can go into some of these databases and pull all the data I need. We don't really restrict it. >> But he's making sure that every, he's making sure that the data works for everybody in the organization. >> Yeah. Yeah, I'd say to some degree, yes. We also have our software engineers, making sure the printer data is actually-- >> Well, they're always... >> Heather, I think I would... >> Always behind the scenes. >> I think I would like the title Steward of Data. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> I think that's, I think I just found my new title. >> It's a little geeky.(laughs) >> Well it won't be long. Somebody's going to be called, and-- >> Exactly. One other quick example of how that feedback's happening between a customer service experience and let's say marketing, is, back to my Denon & Marantz example. They had another set of speakers, and they can tell, they often, the consumer will label the speaker, based upon, you know, this is the living room, this is the bedroom... And they had some failures on another brand of speakers, and they noticed a commonality, they were all labeled Bathroom. And, basically, they realized that their speakers... Some of these speakers couldn't handle the humidity that was happening in the bathroom; drove that back into product development, built a new series of speakers quickly for bathroom that were more waterproof, >> Yeah. >> Or, more moisture resistant, and created a new product extension that actually sells quite well. So, there's just a simple example of how that data flowed back into product development and marketing. >> So, Heather, you're not feeling like a fish out water here at a customer experience show with all of the-- >> Oh, no, of course not. No, I love this kind of stuff. >> What's exciting you about listening to, mainly marketers, but a lot of customer experience, too? >> I, you know people-- >> Talk about customer service >> That are in service, they get excited. I mean, fundamentally, there's all kinds of reasons for growing the business, and increasing revenue, and cutting costs, and all those things, but fundamentally, people are in service to help other people. Like, that's what gets us up in the morning. That's what makes us jump out of bed. So, the idea that there's all these companies doing these super-cool things, where you can, really, proactively be helping people instead of waiting till they're already in trouble. That's like, you've just burst through a barrier that's existed for millennia; the fact that we can actually start predicting problems. >> But that's also, we also talked a lot here on theCUBE this week about the role that talent's going to play. And, while I've never been in a hardcore customer service job, I know that people who have gone in, often got demoralized because they were always being yelled at because there was problem. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> And I had to believe it's attracting a new class of person because they can actually be participating, and anticipating, and solving problems >> Yes, yes, yes. Well, and I, it does take a certain type to be a customer, to be in front of customers all the time. We always say that the number one rule is you have to hire happy people to be put in that position, because (laughs) >> Peter: So, how about (Heather laughs) >> Actually, that was a very insightful question, because we were on a panel yesterday with an analyst, Denis Pombriant from the Beagle Research and he talked about, well, a couple of dynamics. One is, agents, the profile of the agents that you hire is changing. Because all the simple things are being solved online through self-service, and now that agent has to be a more gifted, even arguably, he called it a controller, a more aggressive agent that's going to be a problem-solver, able to collaborate with others. So, more empowered, and that's one thing, so I thought your question was really insightful. The nature of that agent is changing. And another thing that smart companies do, is they empower those agents. You know, not just with technology, but they give them the ability to, you know, the a brand of hotels, high-end hotels, I won't use the brand, but their agents are given a couple thousand dollars a day, and are empowered to use that to fix any issues. You know, somebody shows up and the room's booked, they don't drag them out of the hotel. (all laugh) They actually find them... Maybe they upgrade the room or they get them a meal if they have a problem so, empowering them also makes the agent feel much better about delivering customer service-- >> Alright, so Steve Fioretti, VP Product Management Oracle Service Cloud. Heather Miksch the Vice President of Field and Product Operations at Carbon, and Pepper from SoftBank. >> Yay! >> Thank you all for being a part of theCUBE here at the Oracle-- >> Thank you. >> Modern Customer Experience >> Thank you Peter. >> And talking about the role that service is now playing in driving customer experience and the role that the Cloud is playing in improving customer service. >> Steve: Great, awesome. >> We'll be back with a wrap-up in a few minutes, and in fact, John will magically reappear. Give us a few minutes and we'll be back with more from theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017, brought to you by Oracle. (dynamic music) >> John: Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live. Day two coverage of Oracle's Modern CX Modern Customer Experience #ModernCX. Also check out all the great coverage here on The Cube, but also on the web, a lot of great stories and one of the people behind all that is Des Cahill, who's joining Peter Burris and myself. Kicking off day two, Des, great to see you, Head of Customer Experience Evangelist, involved in a lot of the formation and really the simplification of the messaging across Cloud, so it's really one story. >> Yeah, absolutely, so John, Peter, great to be here. You know, I think the real story is about our customers and businesses that are going through transformation. So everything that we're doing at Oracle, in our CX organizations, helping these organizations make their digital business transformation and the reason they're going through this transformative process is to meet the demands of their customers. I'd say it's the era of the empowered customer. They're empowered by social, mobile, Cloud technologies and all of us in our daily lives can relate to the fact that over the last five, 10 years, the way that we buy, our journey as we buy products, as we do research, is completely different, than it used to be, right. >> Talk about the evolution, talk about the evolution of what's happening this week, because I think this is kind of a mark in time, at least from our observation, covering Oracle, this is our eighth year and certainly second year with the modern marketing experience now, >> Des: Yeah. >> the modern customer experience, where the feedback in the floor, and this is noteworthy, is that the quality is great, people at the booth are highly qualified, but it's simple. It's one fabric of messaging, one fabric of product. It feels like a platform, >> Yeah. >> and is that by design (laughs) or is that kind of the next step in the evolution of, >> Des: Yeah, John. >> Marketing Cloud meets Real Cloud and? >> Yeah, yeah, so absolutely John. I mean that, that is by design and again, to support our customers and their needs on this digital business transformation journey, it starts obviously with fantastic marketing, we've just got fantastic capabilities within our Marketing Cloud, but then that extends to Sales Cloud. If you generate leads in marketing and you're not handing them over to sales effectively or of a good sales automation engine and that goes on to commerce, CPQ, social, and service. And all of this, if we bring this back down to again, this notion of the empowered customer, if you're not providing those customers with connected experiences across marketing, sales, service, commerce, you're not... you're going to, you might lose those customers. I mean, we expect connected experiences across our whole journey. If I'm calling my cell phone provider, 'cause I got a problem, I don't, and I don't want to call one person, get transferred to another person and then go to the website to chat with someone, have a disconnected experience. I want them to, when I call, I want them to understand my history, my status as a customer, I'm spending 500 dollars a month on them, the problems I've had before. I want them to have context and to know me in that moment and as Mark Hertz says, it's like a moment of truth with my cell phone provider. Are they going to delight me and turn me into a customer advocate, or am I going to leave and go to another cell phone provider? >> Well let's talk just for a second, and I want to get your comments on this and how it relates specifically to what we're saying here. Digital has two enormous impacts. One, as you said, that a customer can take their research activities with them, on their cell phone. >> Yeah. They have learned, because of commerce and electronic commerce, they've learn to expect and demand a certain style of engagement >> Des: Right. >> and that's not going to change, so if you are not doing those things-- >> We like to say Amazon is the new benchmark, either B to C or B to B, it doesn't matter, right. >> It is a benchmark, at least on the commerce side, so it's, so that's one change, is that customers are empowered. The second big change though, is that increasingly, digital allows people to render products more as services and that's in many respects, what the Cloud's all about. >> Des: Right. >> How do you take an asset, that is a machine and render it as a service to someone? Well now we can actually use digital technologies to render things more as services. The combination of those two things are incredibly powerful, because customers, who now have the power to evaluate and change decisions all the time are now constantly making decisions, because it's a pay-as-you-go service world now. >> Des: Right. >> So how do those two things come together and inform the role, that marketing is going to play inside a business, 'cause increasingly, it seems to us that marketing is going to have to own that continuous, ongoing engagement and deliver that consistent value, so a customer does not leave, 'cause you have more opportunities to leave now. >> Well, I, so I think that's a good observation, Peter. I do think that marketers can play, and do play, a leading role in being the advocate for the customer within the brand, within the company and as a marketer myself, I think about not just the marketing function, but I think about, well, what is the experience, that that lead or that prospect going to have when I hand over to sales? And what is the experience that they are going to have, when I hand them over to service? And in my past roles as a CMO, the challenge I always faced was that I couldn't get information out of the sales automation system or out of the service automation system, so as a marketer, I couldn't optimize my marketing mix and I didn't have visibility on which opportunities I passed, which leads I passed over turned into the best opportunities, turned into the best deals, turned into the customers, that were most loyal, that got cross-sold and up-sold and were the happiest. So I think, going back to Oracle's strategy in all of this, it's about having a connected, end-to-end suite of Cloud applications, so that there's a consistent set of data, that is enabling these consistent, personalized, and immediate experiences. >> I think that's interesting and I want to just validate that, because I think, that is to me, the big sign that I think you guys are on the right track and executing and by the way, some of the things you're talking about used to be the holy grail, they're actually real now. >> Des: Right. >> The dynamic is the silos are a symptom of a digital-analog relationship. >> Des: Right. >> So when you have all digital, the moment of truth starts here, it's all digital. So in that paradigm, end-to-end wins. And at Mobile World Congress this year, one of the main themes when they talk about 5G, and all these things, that were going on, was you know, autonomous vehicles, (laughs) media entertainment, smart cities, a smart home, you know, talk to things. To your point, that's an end-to-end, so the entire world wants-- >> Des: Throw IoT in there. >> Throw IoT, >> Right. >> So again, these digital connections are all connected, so therefore, it is essentially an end-to-end opportunity. So whoever can optimize that end-to-end, while being open, while having access to the data, >> Des: Right. >> will be the winning formula. >> Des: Right. >> And that is something that we see and you obviously have that. >> And then the other piece is how do you actualize that data? Right, and I know you spoke with Jack Berkowitz about adaptive intelligent apps, it's, we're taking approach to artificial intelligence of saying, how can we bring to bear the power of machine learning, dynamic decision science, so that all this data, that's being collected and enabled by all these digital touch points, these digital signals, how do you take that data and how do you actualize that, 'cause the reality is, 80% of data that's collected today is dark, it's untouched, it's just collected, right. >> Well, here is the hard question for you, you know I am going to ask this, so I am going to ask it, here's the hard question. >> Des: Yeah. >> It really comes down to the data, and if you don't, you, connected networks and all that good stuff is great fabric, end-to-end. >> Des: Absolutely, yeah. >> This is certainly the future, it's the new normal, it's coming fast. >> Right. >> But at the end of the day, the conversation we've been having here is about the data. >> Des: Yes. >> What is your position with Oracle on connecting that data, 'cause that ultimately is what needs to flow. >> Des: Right. >> How does that work? Can you just take a minute to >> Sure, sure. >> to address that, how the data flows? >> Yeah, I think it starts with our end-to-end connected applications, that are able, that are connected with each other natively and are sharing that same data set. We obviously recognize that customers have mixed environments, so in those cases, we can certainly use our technologies to connect to their existing data stores, to synchronize with their existing systems, so it all starts with the cleanliness and quality of that baseline customer data. The second piece I'd say, is that we've made a lot of investments over the last five years in Oracle Data Cloud and Oracle Data Cloud is a set of anonymized, third party data. We've got 5 billion consumer IDs, we've got a billion business IDs. We've got a tremendous amount of data sources. We just announced a recent acquisition of a company called Moat, last week at our Oracle Data Cloud Summit in New York City. So we've made a tremendous investment in third party data, that can augment anonymized third party data, that can augment first party data, to allow people to have not just a connected view of the customer, but more of a comprehensive view and understanding of their customers, so that they can better talk to them and get them better experiences. >> That's the key there, that we're hearing with this intelligent, adaptive intelligent app kind of environment, >> Yeah, yeah. >> where machine learning. The third party data integrating within the first party data, that seems to be the key. Is that right, >> Absolutely. >> did I get that right? >> Yeah, well I would say there's a number of points, so I would say that, that, you know, you can think of the Oracle Data Cloud combining with the BlueKai DMP and being a great ad-tech business for us and a great solution for digital marketers in and of itself. What we've done with adaptive intelligent apps is that we've combined that third party data with decision science machine learning AI and we've coupled that with the Oracle Cloud infrastructure and the scale and power of that. So we're able to deliver real-time, adaptive learning and dynamic offers and content at 130 millisecond clips. So this is real-time interaction, so we are getting signals every time someone clicks, it's not a batch mode, one-off kind of thing. The third piece is that we have designed these, designed these apps to just embed natively, to plug into our existing CX applications. So if you're a marketer, you're a service professional, you're a sales professional, you can get value out of this day one. You've got a tremendous data set. You've got real-time, adaptive artificial intelligence and it plugs right into your existing apps. It's a win-win. Take your first party data, take your third party data, combine it together, put some decision science on there, some high bandwidth, incredible scale infrastructure and you're getting, you're starting to get to one-to-one marketing. You're freeing your marketing teams from being data analysts and segmenting and trying to get insight and you're letting the machine do that work and you're freeing up, you're freeing up your human capital to be thinking about higher-level tasks, about offers and merchandising and creative and campaigns and channels. >> Well, the way we think about it, Des, and I'll test you on this, is we think ultimately the machines are going to offer options. So they're going to do triage on a lot of this data >> Des: Right, right. >> and offer options to human decision-makers. Some of the discretions, we see three levels of interaction, >> Des: Yeah. >> Automated interaction, which, quite frankly, we're doing a lot of that today in finance systems. >> Des: Yes. >> But then we get to autonomous vehicles, highly deterministic networks, highly deterministic behaviors, >> Des: Right. >> that's what's going to be required in autonomy. No uncertainty. Where we have environmental uncertainty, i.e. that temperature's going to change or I, some IoT things are going to change, that's where we see the idea of turning the data and actuating it in the context of that environmental uncertainty. >> Des: Right. >> We think that this is all going to have an impact on the human side, what we call systems of augmentation, >> Des: Right. >> where the system's going to provide options to a human decision-maker, the discretion stays with the human decision-maker, culpability stays with the human decision-maker, >> Des: Right. >> but the quality of the options determine the value of the systems. >> So the augmentation is-- >> The augmentation's great. >> So let me give you a great example of that with AIA. So, take for example, you're a pro photographer and you got a big shoot the next day and your camera, your main camera you bought three months ago, it breaks. And you buy all your stuff at photog.com and you call 'em up and what could happen today? "Hi, what's your account number? "Who are you? "Wait, let me look you up, OK. "I'm sorry, I'm not authorized to get you a return." You know, boom, and the person's like, "I'm never going to buy from them again." Right, it's that moment of truth. Contrast that with a, 'cause the person making that decision, if it was the CEO getting that call, the CEO would be like, "We're going to get you a camera immediately." But that person that they're talking to is five levels down in a call center, Bismarck, North Dakota. If that person had AI, adaptive intelligent apps helping them out, then the AI would do the work in the background of analyzing the customer's lifetime value, their social reach, so their indirect lifetime value. It would look at their customer health, how many other services issues, that they have. It would look at, are there any warranty issues or known service failure issues on that camera and then it would look at a list of stores, that were within a five mile radius of that customer, that had those cameras in stock. And it would authorize an immediate pickup and you're on your way. It would just inform that person and enable them to make that decision. >> Even more than that, and this is a crucially important point, that we think people don't get when they talk about a lot of this stuff. These systems have to deliver not only data, but also authority. >> Exactly. The authority has to flow with the data. >> Des: Right. >> That's one of the advantages-- >> On both sides, by the way, on the identity and-- >> On both sides. >> And I think that employee wants that empowerment. >> Absolutely. >> No one wants to take a call and not make the customer happy, right. >> Peter: Absolutely, >> Yeah. >> because that's a challenge with some of the bolt-on approaches to some of these big applications, is that, yeah, >> Exactly. >> you can deliver a result, but then how is the result >> How is it manifested? >> integrated into the process >> Right. >> that defines and affords authority to actually make the decision? >> OK, so let's see, where are we on the progress bar then. because we had a great interview yesterday with the CMO from Time Warner. >> Yeah. >> OK, Kristen O'Hara, she was amazing. But basically, there was no old way of doing data, they were Time Warner, (laughs) they're old school media and they set up a project, you guys came in, Oracle came in, and essentially got them up and running, and it's changed their business practice overnight. >> Des: Right, right. >> So, and the other thing we heard yesterday was a lot of the stuff that was holy grail-like capabilities is actually being delivered. So give us a slice-and-dice what's shipping today, that's, that's hot and where's the work area that's road-mapped for Oracle? >> Sure, well-- >> And were you guys helping customers? >> Sure, I'll talk about a couple of examples, where we're helping customers. So, Denon and Marantz, high end audio company, brand's been around 100 years. The way music is delivered, is consumed, has changed radically in the last 20 years, changed radically in the last 10 years, changed even more radically in the last five years, so they've had to change their business model to keep up with that. They are embedding Oracle IoT Cloud into every product they sell, except their headphones, so all their speakers, all their AV receivers and they are using IoT data and Oracle Service Cloud to inform, not only service issues, like for example, they are, they're detecting failures pro-actively and they're shipping out new speakers, before they fail or they're pushing firmware to fix the problem, before it happens. They're not only using it to inform their service, they're using it to inform their R&D and their sales and marketing. Great example, they ship wireless speakers, HEOS wireless speakers, highly recommend 'em, I bought 'em for my kids for Christmas, they're the bomb. But customers were starting to... They were getting a lot of failures in these wireless speakers. They looked up the customer data, then they looked up the IoT data. They found that 80% of the speaker failures, the products were labeled Bathroom as location in the configuration of their home network setup and what they realized was that customers were listening to music in the bathroom, which is a use case they never thought of and the speakers weren't made to be water or humidity-proof, so they went to the R&D department, 14 months later, they ship a line of waterproof HEOS speakers. The second thing is they found people, who were labeling their speakers, Patio, they were using it on the patio, they didn't even have a rechargeable battery on it, so they came out with a line with a rechargeable battery on it. So they're not only using IoT data, for a machine maintenance function, >> John: 'cause they were behaving-- >> they're using IoT data to inform, inform R&D and they're also doing incredible marketing and sales activities. We had Don Freeman, the CMO of Denon on the main stage yesterday, talking about this great, great stuff they're doing. >> And what's the coolest thing this week, that you're looking at, you're proud of or excited about? >> I'm excited about a lot of stuff, John. This week is realized, you alluded to this week has been really, really fun, really great, a lot of buzz, obviously a lot of buzz around adaptive, intelligent apps and we've talked about that. But I would say also beyond a doubt, that intelligent apps for CX, we've introduced some great things in our Service Cloud, the capability to have a video chat, so Pella Windows was also on one of our panels today and they were talking about the ability for, to solve a service issue, the ability to show a video of what's going on, just increases the speed with which something can be diagnosed so much faster. We're integrating on the Service Cloud, we're integrating with WeChat and we're integrating with Facebook Messenger. Now, why would you do that? Well again, it comes back to this era of the empowered consumer. It's not enough that a company just has a website or an 0800 number that you can go to for support. Consumers are spending more time in social messaging apps, than they are on social messaging sites, so if the consumer wants to be served on Facebook Messenger, 'cause they spend their time on it, the brand has to meet them there. >> John: Yeah. >> The third thing would be the ability for the Marketing Cloud and Service and Sales Cloud, we've got chat bots, voice-driven, text-driven, AI-driven, so mobile assistant for the sales professionals, so you can input data on the road, "Hey, open an account, here's the data "for the transaction here what's going on." >> John: Yeah. >> Incredible, incredible stuff going on all over the stack. >> I think the thing, that excites me, is I look at the videos from last year and the theme was, "Man, you guys have "all these awesome acquisitions," >> Des: Right. >> "But you have this opportunity with the data," and you guys knew that and you guys tightened that together and doubled down on the data >> Des: Yeah, with banking, yeah-- >> and so I thought that was a great job and I like the messenging's clean, I think but more importantly is that in any sea change, you know, we joke about this, as we're kind of like historians and we've seen a lot of waves, >> Des: Right, for sure. >> and all these major waves, when the user's expectations shift, that's the opportunity. I think what you guys nailed here is that, and Peter alluded to it as well, is that the users are expecting things differently, completely differently. >> Let me share a stat with you. 50% of the companies that were in the Fortune 500 in the year 2000, are either out of business, acquired, gone, 50% and those companies, >> Dab or die. >> Blockbuster, Borders, did they stay relevant? >> John: Yeah. I think changing business practice based on data is what's happening, it's awesome. Des Cahill, here on The Cube. More live coverage, day two of Modern CX, Modern Customer Experience, #ModernCX. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris, we'll be right back. (dynamic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Austin, Texas, it's The Cube covering South by Southwest 2017, brought to you by Intel. Now, here's John Furrier. >> Hey, welcome everyone back for day two of live coverage of South by Southwest. This is the cube, our flagship program from Silicon Angle. We go out to the events and extract the (mumbles). We're at the Intel AI Lounge, people are rolling in, it's an amazing vibe here, South by Southwest. The themes are AI, virtual reality, augmented reality, technology. They got great booths here, free beers, free drinks, and of course great sessions and great conversations here with the Cube. My first guest of the day here is Ben Parr, a friend of the Cube. He's been an entrepreneur, he's been a social media maven, he's been a journalist, all around great guy. Ben, thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you for having me again. >> So you're a veteran with South by Southwest, you know the social scene, you've seen the evolution from Web 2.0 all the way to today, had Scobel on yesterday, Brian Fanzo, really the vibe is all about that next level, of social to connecting and you got a startup you're working on that you founded, co-founded called AI? >> Ben: Octane AI. >> Octane AI, that's in the heart of this new social fabric that's developing. Where AI is starting to do stuff, keep learning, analytics but, ultimately, it's just a connection. Talk about your company. What is Octane AI? Tell us a little bit about the company. >> So Octane AI is a platform that lets you build an audience on Facebook Messenger and then through a bot. And so, what we do is allow you to create a presence on Messenger because if I told you there was a social app that had a billion users every month, bigger than Snapchat plus Twitter plus Instagram combined you'd want to figure out a strategy for how to engage with those people right? And that social app is Facebook Messenger. And yet no one ever thinks, oh could I build an audience on a messaging app? Could I build an audience on Messenger or WeChat or any of the others. But you can through a bot. And you can not just build an audience but you can create really engaging content through conversation. So what we've done is, we've made it really easy to make a bot on messenger but more importantly, a real reason for people to, actually, come to your bot and engage with it and make it really easy to create content for it. In the same way you create content for a blog or create content for YouTube Channel. Maroon 5, Aerosmith, KISS, Lindsay Lohan, 30 seconds to MARS, Jason Derulo and a whole bunch more use us to build an audience and engage their fans on Messenger. >> So let me get your thoughts on a couple of trends around this. Cause this is really kind of, to me, a key part that chat bots illustrate the big trends that are going on. Chat bots were the hype. People were talking about, oh chat bots. It's a good mental model for people to see AI but it also has been, kind of, I won't say a pest, if you will, for users. It's been like a notification. A notification of the economy we're living in. Now you're taking it to the next level. This is what we're seeing. The deep learnings and the analytics around turning notifications which can be noisy after a while, into real content and connections. >> Into something useful, absolutely. Like look, the last year of bots. The Facebook platform is not even a year old. We've been in that fart apps stage of bots. Remember the first year of mobile apps? You had the fart app and that made $50,000 a day and that was annoying as hell. We're at that stage now, the experimentation stage. And we've seen different companies going in different, really cool directions. Our direction is, how do you create compelling content so you're not spamming people but you have content that you can share, not just in your bot but as a link on your social media to your followers, to your fans, on Twitter, everywhere else and have a scalable conversation about whatever you want. Maroon 5 has conversations with their audience about their upcoming tours or they even released an exclusive preview of their new song, Cold, through our bots. You could do almost anything with our bots or with any bot. We're just learning right now, as an industry, what are the best practices. >> So where do bots go for the next level? Because you and I have known each other for almost over 10 years, we've seen the whole movement and now we're living in a fake news era. But social media is evolving where content now is super important that glues people together, communities together. In a way, you're taking AI or bots, if you will. Which is a first, I mean, .5 version of where AI is going. Where content, now, is being blended into notifications. How important is content in community? >> Content in community are essential to any product. And I feel like when you hear the word bot, you don't think community and that you could build a community with it because it's a bot, it's supposed to be automated. But you, actually, can if you do it in the right way and it can be a very, very powerful experience. We're building features that allow you to build more community in your bot and have people who are talking with your bot communicate with each other. There's a lot of that. What I feel like is, we're at the zero point one or zero point two of the long scale of AI. What we need to do right now is showcase all the use cases that really work for AI, bots, machine learning. Over time, we will be adding more other great technologies from Intel and others that will make all these technologies and everything we do better, more social and most of all, more personalized. I think that's one of the big benefits of AI. >> Do you see bot technology or what bots can turn into being embedded into things like autonomous vehicles, AR, is there a stack developing, if you will, around bots? What you're talking about is a progression of bots. What's your vision on where this goes down the road? >> I see a bunch of companies, now, building the technological stack for AI. I see a bunch of companies building the consumer interface, bots is one of those consumer interfaces. Not just chat bots but voice bots. And then I see another layer that's more enterprise that's helping make more efficient things like recruiting or all sorts of automation or driving. That are being built as well. But you need each of those stacks to work really well to make this all work. >> So are there bots here at South by Southwest? Is there a bot explosion, is there bots that tell you where the best parties are? What's the scene here at Southby? Where are the bots and if there were bots, what would they be doing to help people figure out what to do? >> The Southby bot is, actually, not a bad bot. They launched their bot just before South by Southwest. It has a good party recommendations and things. But it the standard bot. I feel like what we're seeing is the best use, there's a lot of good bot people. What I'm seeing right now is that people are still flushing out the best use cases for their bots. There's no bot yet that can predict all the parties you want to go to. We got to have our expectations set. That will happen but we're still a few years away from really deep AI bots. But there are clearly ones where you can communicate faster with your friends. There's clearly ones that help you connect with your favorite artist. There's clearly ones that help you build an audience and communicate at scale. And I feel like the next step is the usefulness. >> Talk about the user interface. Robert Scobel and I were talking yesterday, we have some guests coming on today that had user experience background. With AI, with virtual reality, with bots, with deep learning, all this collective intelligence going on, what's your vision of the user interface as it changes, as people's expectations? What are some of those things that you might see developing pretty quickly as deep learning, analytics, more data stats come online? What is the user interface? Cause bots will intersect with that as an assistant or a value add for the user. What's your vision on? >> I'll tell you what I see in the near term and then I'll tell you a really crazy idea of how I see the long term. In the near term, I think what you're going to see is bots have become more predictive. That, based on your conversations, are more personalized and maybe not a necessarily need as much input from you to be really intelligent. And so voice, text, standard interfaces that we're used to. I think the bigger, longer run is neurological. Is the ability to interface without having to speak. Is AI as a companion to help us in everything we do. I feel like, in 30 years, we won't even, it's, kind of like, do your remember the world when it had no internet? It's hard, it feels so much different. There will be a point in about 20 years we will not understand what the world was before AI. Before AI assistance where assisting us mentally, automatically and through every interface. And so good AI's, in the long run, don't just run on one bot or one thing, they follow you wherever you go. Right now it might be on your phone. When you get home, it may be on your home, it may be in your car but it should be the same sets of AI's that you use daily. >> Doctor Nevine Rou, yesterday, called the AI the bulldozer for data. What bulldozers where in the real world, AI's going to do that for data. Cause you want to service more data and make things more usable for users. >> Yes, the data really helps AI become more personalized and that's a really big benefit to the user to every individual. The more personalized the experience, the less you have to do. >> Alright, so what's the most amazing thing you've seen so far this year at Southby? What's going on out there that's pretty amazing? That's popping out of the wood work? In terms of either trend, content, product, demos, what are some of the cool things you're seeing. >> So, as it is only Saturday, I feel like the coolest thing will still come to me. But outside of AI, there have been some really cool mixed reality, augmented reality demos. I can't remember the name. There's a product with butterflies flying around me. All sorts of really breaking edge technologies that, really, create another new interface honestly where AI may interact with us through the augmented reality of our world. I mean, that's Robert Scogul's thing exactly. But there's a lot of really cool things that are being built on that front. I think those are the obvious, coolest ones. I'm curious to see which ones are going to be the big winners. >> Okay, so I want to ask you a personal question. So you were doing some venture investing around AI and some other things. What caused you to put that pause button on that mission to start the chat bot AI company? >> So I was an investor for a couple of years. I invested in ubean, the wireless electricity company and Shots with Justin Bieber which is always fun. And I love investing and I love working with companies. But I got into Silicone Valley and I got into startups because I wanted to build companies. I wanted to build ideas. This happened, in part, because of my co-founders. My co-founder Matt, who is the first head of product at Ustream and twice into the Forbes 30 under 30. One of the king makers of the bot industry. The opportunity to be a part of building the future of AI was irresistible to me. I needed to be a part of that. >> Okay, can you tell any stories about Justin Bieber for us, while we're here inside the Cube? (laughs) >> I wonder how many of those I can, actually, tell? Okay, so look. Justin Bieber is an investor in a company I'm an investor in called Shots. Which is now a super studio that represents everyone from Lele Pons to Mike Tyson on digital online and they're doing really, really well. One of Justin's best friends is the founder, John Shahidi. And so it's just really random. Sitting with John, who I invested in and just getting random FaceTime's. Be like, oh it's Justin Bieber, say hi to Justin. As if it was nothing. As if it was a normal, it's a normal day in his life. >> Could you just have him retweet one of my Tweets. He's got like a zillion followers. What's his follower count at now? >> You don't want that. He's done that to me before. When Justin retweets you or even John retweets you, thousands of not tens of thousands of Justin Bieber fans, bots and not bots, start messaging you, asking you to follow them, talking to you all the time. I still get the tweets all the time from all the Justin fans. >> Okay don't tweet me then. I'm nice and happy with 21,000 followers. Alright, so next level for you in terms of this venture. Obviously, they got some rock stars in there. What's the next step for you guys right now? Give us a little inside baseball in the venture status where you guys are at. What's the next step? >> We launched the company publicly in November, we started in May. We raised 1.6 million from general catalyst, from Sherpa Ventures, a couple of others. When we launched our new feature, Convos, which allows you to create shareable bots, shareable conversations with the way you share blog posts. And that came out with all those launch partners I mentioned before like Maroon 5. We're working on perfecting the experience and, mostly, trying to make a really, really compelling experience with the user with bots because if we can't do that, then there's no use to doing anything. >> So you provide the octane for the explosive conversations? (laughs) >> Yes, there you go, thank you, thank you. And we make it really easy. So we're just trying to make it easier to do this. This is a product that your mom could use, that an artist could use, any social media team could use. Writing a convo is like writing a blog post on media. >> Are moms really getting the chat bot scene? I, honestly, get the Hollywood. I'm going to go back to Hollywood in a second but being a general, middle America kind of tech/genre, what are they like? Are they grokking the whole bot thing? What's the feedback from middle America tech? >> But think of it this way. There are a billion people on Messenger and it's a, really, part of the question, they all use Facebook Messenger. And so, they may be communicating with a bot without knowing it. Or they might want to communicate with their fans. It's not about the technology as much as this is like connecting with who you really care about. If I really care about a Maroon 5 or Rachel Ray, I can now have that option. And it doesn't really matter what the technology is as much as it is that personal connection, that experience is good. >> John: Is it one-one-one or group? Cause it sounds like it's town hall, perfect for a town hall situation. >> It's one-on-one, it's scale. So you could have a conversation with a bot while each of the audience members is having a conversation one-on-one. When you can choose different options and it could be a different conversation for each person. >> Alright, so I got to ask about the Hollywood scene. You mentioned Justin Bieber. I wanted to go down that because Hollywood really has adopted social media pretty heavily because they can go direct to the audience. We're seeing that. Obviously, with the election, Trump was on Twitter. He bypasses all the press but Hollywood has done very well with social. How are they using the bots? They are a tell sign of where it's going. Can you share some antidotal stories or data around how Maroon 5, Justin, these guys are leveraging this and what's some of the impact? >> Sure, so about a month 1/2, 2 months before Maroon 5 launched their new song, new single, Cold. They came to us and wanted to build a distribution. They wanted to reach their audience in a more direct personal way. And so we helped them make a bot. It didn't take long. We helped them write convos. And so what they did was they wrote convos about things like exclusive behind the scenes photos from their recent tour or their top moments of 2016 or things that their fans really care about. And they shared em. They got a URL just like you would get, a blog poster URL. They shared it out with their 39 million Facebook fans, they shared it with their Twitter followers, they shared it across their social media. And 10's of thousand's of people started talking with their bot each time they did this. About 24 hours before the bot, before their new single release, they exclusively released a 10 second clip of Cold through their bot. And when they did that, within 24 hours, the size of their bot doubled because it went viral within the Maroon 5 community. There's a share function in our convos and people shared the convo with their friends and with their friends friends and it kept on spreading. We saw this viral graph happen. And the next day when they released the single, 1000's of people bought the song because of the bot alone. And now the bot is a core of their social strategy. They share a convo every single week and it's not just them but now Lohan and a whole bunch of others are doing the same thing. >> John: Lindsay Lohan. >> Lindsay Lohan is one of our most popular bots. Her fans are really dedicated. >> And so you can almost see it's, almost connecting with CGI, looking at what CGI's doing in film making. You could almost have a CGI component built-in. So it's all this stuff coming together. >> Ben: Multimedia matters. >> So what do you think about the Intel booth here? The AI experience? They got some Kinetic photo experience, amazing non-profit activities in deep loading (mumbles), missing children, what do you think? >> This is some of the best use cases for AI which is, people think of AI as just like the direct consumer interface which is what we do but AI is an underlying layer to everything we do. And if it can help even 1% or 1,000% identify and find missing children or increase the efficiency of our technology stacks so that we save energy. Or we figure out new ways to save energy. This is where AI can really make an impact. It is just a fundamental layer of everything. In the same way the internet is just a fundamental layer of everything. So I've seen some very cool things here. >> Alright, Ben Parr, great guest, in venture capitalist now founder of a great company Octane AI. High octane, explosive conversations looking forward to adopting. We're going to, definitely, take advantage of the chat bot and maybe we can get some back stage passes to Maroon 5. (laughs) >> (laughs) There will be some fun times in the future, I know it. >> Alright Ben Parr. >> Ben: Justin Bieber. >> Justin Bieber inside the Cube right here and Ben Parr. Thanks for watching. It's the Intel AI Lounge. A lot of great stuff. A lot of great people here. Thanks for joining us. Our next guest will be up after this short break. (lively music)