>> From Sand Hill Road in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE presenting the People First Network, insights from entrepreneurs and tech leaders. >> Everyone, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We are here for a special conversation on Sand Hill Road at Mayfield's 50th anniversary, part of their People First Network. I'm here with Jonah Goodhart, co-founder and CEO of Moat, now with Oracle, sold their company in 2017, entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thanks for having me, John, excited to be here. >> So we're talking before you came on camera. You've been an entrepreneur since you were a small kid doing all kinds of hustles and side things. What's happening with you now? Obviously, you sold your company in 2017, part of Oracle. Oracle not known for the entrepreneurial activity, but you brought that company in, still goin' on. Give us an update. >> So I started Moat back in 2010. Like you said in 2017, Oracle decided to make us an offer, and we decided to sell our company. And it's been frankly exciting for me to be part of a company that has a 40-year history in Oracle. To have a company that has played a pretty pivotal role in Silicon Valley. We're sitting here right in the heart of Silicon Valley, and to be a part of a company that I think is... So important to the future development of software and databases and hardware. I think is interesting and exciting. And certainly not the path that I thought I would be on, but I'm excited to be here today. >> It's always nice to have an entrepreneurial success the level you guys had. Great exit, the numbers that was reported almost close to a billion dollars in value to Oracle, sorry, the company you started. But you got a unique journey. You started with your brother. Was in New York. Take us through that journey. What were some of the things that you did? And how did it get started? What was the main drive? >> Sure, so I got to take us back a little bit. So I've been in business with my brother, Noah, for 20 years. So we started a company in the late 1990's when I was an undergrad at Cornell. And the Internet was going crazy. E-commerce companies were going public. And the first of everything was starting, the first Internet credit card, the first of x, y, and z, fill in the blank. And so we decided, sort of haphazardly at the time, that we would start a business. And we started by helping companies acquire customers using the Internet. And so we really built, I think in sort of looking back on it now, it was somewhat of a marketing agency but at the time we were building-- >> What year was that? >> This is '98, '98, '99. >> So sort right in Internet boom. Things are going crazy. >> Things are going crazy. We're in college. We were building email lists. We were essentially trying to figure out how do you tell stories and advertise online, but we didn't know we were doing that. We were just trying to simply make some money. I was working for $5 an hour at the Computer Center in Ithaca, New York at Cornell, and I didn't own a computer. So I'm sitting there. Part of the reason I worked for the Computer Center was 'cause I got 24-hour access to the Internet and to a computer. And so we started our first business there. And things went really well almost out of the gate. So '98, '99, and then 2000 happened. And 2001 happened, and the world changed. Business certainly changed. The so-called sort of bust of a lot of, I think, the ideas that people had. I think people realized that there was going to have to be real business that were built. And eventually those businesses were built in many cases. But I think it didn't happen the way that people expected. And we were certainly surprised by it. We were 21-year-old, I was 21 at the time. My brother was two years older than me. And so we had this business that was going really well, and then we sort of ran off of a cliff. And so were profitable, growing, on top of the world, and then hit a challenge. And it was one of the first business lessons that I really learned back in 2000, 2001, which is that you have to have something that is sticky. That's going to be able to stick around through the tough times. It can't only work when things are going up. It can't only work when people are spending money. And so we learned a lot of lessons about how do you build a long-term sustainable business. In 2002, someone that we had done business with for a couple years called me. And he said, "I'm going to start a new business. "And I think there's an opportunity to build a business "to trade digital advertising and to do it more effectively "and efficiently than has been done to date." This guy said, "I think there's something to be done. "I think now is the time to do it." My brother and I decided to partner with him. We decided to write a check to become his first client and to help him start a company that he started in 2002 called Right Media. Right Media ended up becoming a big success. It was the first big ad exchange. The first platform to trade digital advertising inventory. Yahoo! ended up acquiring the company in 2007. And so we were sort of on our way as entrepreneurs slash now investors, but enter the world of 2008. Once again, the economy changes. The world changes. And we start to think, "Alright, maybe when the market "goes down, when everything crashes, maybe that's the time "to start thinking about starting a new business. "Maybe when competition dries out a little bit "it's the right time to get back into building companies." And so Noah and I, my brother and I, decided, "Alright, let's go start a new business." And we got started with Moat in 2010. And it's been a pretty fun ride. >> And how long did you work on Moat for? How many years? >> So we started in 2010. We spent a year or two trying to figure out what we would do. Really got started in earnest in 2010. Raised, invested the initial amount of money ourselves through myself, and Noah, and our third partner, Mike Walrath, the guy from Right Media. And in 2011, raised the friends and family round. 2012, we're fortunate to get Mayfield to invest. And at that point was when our business really took off. So we ran the company from 2010 to 2012 with zero dollars in revenue. Mayfield invested in us when we had zero dollars in revenue. And things started to go off from there. So from 2012 to 2017 when we sold the company, we built a pretty sizable SaaS business. >> So interesting experiences as to Mayfield, no revenue, that's the way they like it. Like to build businesses. Take a piece of the action. You also did that early on. But I think what's interesting about your story, and I want to get your thoughts on this is that entrepreneurs sometimes they hit a wall and sometimes they can't get back up. You hit multiple kind of market timings. I'll say the bubble crash, 2001-2002 time frame. You mentioned 2008. Seeing transitions is a big part of having that entrepreneurial antenna, if you will, having a feeling for the market, knowing what the wave is, when to start, when to invest, invest in down markets. As you grew from that first venture and you're on top of the world, college, that first crash, how did you figure out the market transition kind of dynamic? What was, did it jump out at you? Was it just scar tissue? What was some of the feelings there? >> Yeah, I mean my view is that so the market changed, and we had all these expectations about our revenue was going to continue to grow forever, and our profits were going to continue to grow forever. And when the market changed and outside dynamics changed our business. This is Colonize. I'm talking about our first company. All of a sudden we went, "Uh oh, what do you now?" And I think it was more having lived through that experience that we said, "Alright, we need to figure out "when we build businesses, how do we build them "to be sort of fool-proof? "Or as much fool-poof as we can be. "How do we have something that's sticky, sustainable, "that can't simply be turned off with the ebb and flow "of the market?" And I think it, for me, taught me something which was you need to build something that's long-lasting. Something that is not driven by market conditions. If your business is driven by external market conditions, that should be a big signal that there's potentially a problem, 'cause if those conditions change you're going to be in a tough spot. And so we decided then and there, "Alright, we need "to really build businesses that are here for the long run." We sat on the board of Right Media, helped start the company, but we didn't operate it. Mike ran this company, and we watched. We watched very closely and carefully, and he did something else that was interesting. It's that he learned how to story tell. He learned how to think about where we were going as a business in Right Media not where we were. And so I combined, with my brother, these two themes. Sustainable, sticky business with storytelling. Think about where you're going not just where you are. And I think as we created Moat, we thought, "Alright, how do you actually turn that "into a long-term business?" And part of the way you do it is by trying to project forward, trying to think, "Alright, not what are we doing today? "But where are we going into the future?" And that really became a critical part of product development, a part of our vision, of where we wanted to be as a business. And I think it was a critical part of our success. >> What can other entrepreneurs learn from that? Because I think I see a lot of entrepreneurs here in Silicon Valley and around the world, now that entrepreneurship's kind of gone global, is they get stuck in with dogma and like, "We got to make this work." And sometimes they might not be self-aware that they might have to just take their head up and look around and get a feel for what's goin' on around them. What's your advice for those guys? >> I think you have to be honest with yourself. You know, as an entrepreneur, in your heart of hearts is what's happening to you real? You know, you should know I think, whether or not what's happening to you is because of some conditions, because of one customer that's doing something that's good or bad, or because of a broader trend or a broader movement. I try to ask questions about not just what does it look like a year from now or two years from now or three years from now? I think about the world ten years from now. What do I know to be the case ten years from now? I think this is something that Jeff Bezos talks about. Which is what do you for sure know is going to be the case with your business ten years from now? If you can plan towards that, you can build something that's sustainable. And so we knew ten years from now marketers are still going to want to reach people. They're still going to want to story tell. They're still going to want to measure how effective it was to actually reach those people. And so we knew that wouldn't change. What might change are the mechanisms. How they reach people, how they story tell, what platforms they do it on, whether it's Facebook or Snapchat or Pinterest or whatever the next new platform is, that may change. But the fact that marketers will need to reach people won't. And so we felt really confident that ten years from now that's going to still be the case. And I felt if you know that then you can build towards this vision and so-- >> Medium and the channels are all going to change all the time, but the stories need to be told. >> That's right, and interestingly, I think that when you start a business you come up with a theme. You come up with a vision. And so for us it was how do marketers tell their stories increasingly in a world that's digital? That's not something that's going to change overnight. And I felt like over the long haul that's not going to change very quickly. Increasingly we're going to be digital consumers, and marketers are going to have to tell their stories. Now the business that we started at Moat in 2010 ended up changing dramatically. We started a crowd-sourced creative marketplace. We ended as a measurement and analytics company. Pretty different place from creative. The vision was still the same. The vision was still about helping companies, marketers, tell their stories in a world that's increasingly digital. And if you look at successful businesses, they tend to have the same vision from when they started. Now the underlying business may change. Hopefully, the underlying business iterates and finds the right path, but the overall, the high level of where you're going ideally doesn't change. And I think that's part of the key to success. >> That's a great point. I think, I always get in a debate here among entrepreneurs and investors. The word pivot versus adjusting. When you have a North Star or a mission, you just got to kind of tack with the wind and make it a tailwind not a headwind versus a full pivot which might be, "Hey, there's no business here. "We have to do something different." Can you talk about the nuances between what a pivot is? And how you find that tailwind, the wind in the sails if you will, for the entrepreneur to hit that vision? >> Yeah, so first of all, any successful business that I've ever seen never starts off how it ends. In other words, there are always iterations that go through. Pick any company that you can think of right now. They've iterated. They've started off with one theme, and they've gone this slight different path. So I would argue that every good business is going to iterate. Now whether you want to call it a pivot or not, I think is more nomenclature or semantics. My view is you're going to iterate. They key is having that North Star. So in ten years, what do we believe to be the case? Forget about what do we believe, what do we know to be the case? What do we know this is going to be the case ten years from now? And if you're right about that then it can qualify as your North Star. By the way, if you don't know ten years from now this is going to be the case then maybe that shouldn't be your North Star. Maybe that shouldn't be the guiding light for your business. Once you get that part right then it almost frees you to be flexible. It frees you to say, "Okay, so if the world's moving "this way or that way, I'm going to adjust." One of the things that I learned from Moat was actually somebody gave me advice early on. They said, "Go have a thousand meetings. "Go have a thousand meetings in your industry, "in your category. "Go meet with every single person in the business." And I did that. It took me probably 18 months, but I went out and met with everyone who would take my meeting. What I learned from that is that in the B2B world we have an advantage. You can talk to your customers. Your customers will literally tell you, "Here are the issues we're having. "Here are the things we're trying to solve for. "If you can help us solve for this, we will pay you money "to provide a service to us to actually solve this problem." And so I learned, "Wow, that's pretty amazing!" If you actually meet with enough people, you get a sense of the market. You get a sense of what people are buying. You get a sense of the trends. As my oldest brother says, "The world kind of slows down "a little bit." Markets move in slow motion when you really get into it. And so if you go out and have a thousand meetings in your industry, you actually learn what's happening in that business. And you can tweak your business accordingly. I walked away with Moat feeling like if you're not in a meeting talking your story, telling your pitch, telling your vision, and they're not nodding their head going, "Yep, yep, yep, 100% on the same page." Then you're not in the right place. >> I love that comment about slowing the game down. Reminds me of baseball batters up there slowing that game down, watch that ball come in, really slow. And I think that's good advice because you want to slow it down. You want to make sure you're kind of capturing the right things that's happening at the right time, not try to go too fast. >> That's right. Things don't happen overnight. I think oftentimes when you're not in the industry, and you just read the headlines, you think, "Oh my God, that's crazy that this thing happened "and that thing happened!" When it's your space, it doesn't move quite that fast. There's work that has to be done. Contracts that have to be put in place. You see it evolving. And so I always tell people when you want to get to know an industry, read every single piece of content there is about the industry, read every article that comes out about it, and take as many meetings as you can possibly take in the space. And it'll slow down. It'll move at a pace that you can kind of go, "Got it! "It feels like if we do this and this then we can actually "start to build a business here." And again, I think there's a bright line test in B2B if you walk into a meeting and you start telling your story, and you're not getting the nods, and you're not getting the, "Yep, yep, yeah, "that's an issue for us." If that's not happening, then you're not in the right space. Doesn't mean your North Star is wrong, but it means you got to iterate a bit. >> You got to find your groove. I want to change gears a little bit and talk about this People First Network concept that I love because you hear, "Mobile first, cloud first." And the notion of people first, we live in a very social world now, you're seeing a lot of stuff happening where we're connected now almost with digital 100%. Everyone's kind of got mobile even in emerging countries you got connections. Yet there's a lot of new dynamics emerging on the social scene and checking around you're well-known for networking. You're known for connecting with people certainly in your area and beyond. And so there's two things I want to get your thoughts on. One is networks. Who to work with. How do I make decisions on? How do you want to spend your time with other entrepreneurs or other peers? And social entrepreneurship, there's a lot of emphasis around mission-driven things. These are people dynamics where you're starting to see the role of the relationships between people start to take a really important role in entrepreneurship not just, "Let's hire and fire fast." Certainly some basic business knowledge that's common sense. But as you're starting to see this next generation of entrepreneurs emerge, there's an eye on social, mission-driven, but spending time with the right people. What's your thoughts on that? >> So first of all, businesses are about people. In the end of the day, you want to do business with people that you like, with people that you trust, with people that you want to hang out with. That was one of the lessons I learned somewhat early on, and I think it's critical. Businesses are not automated. Businesses are about, "Alright, a group of people "come together with a shared idea of what they can do. "And they can hopefully go support a group of other people "who are trying to get their vision done." And so once you realize that, you realize it's about people. You want to build relationships. You want to build connections. You want to figure out, "Alright, how can I help people? "And hopefully with good karma something will happen "in my favor at some point." And so I always operate under the idea that you just try to do good, you try to help people, and hopefully as a result, good things will happen. In terms of social entrepreneurship what I would tell you is that having a mission that you feel deep down inside of you that is not just, "We're going to make money. "And we're going to deliver on behalf of shareholders." Yes, of course that's important. But when you wake up, and you go to work or you get online, you want to feel something for it. You want to feel like, "Alright, this is something "that I feel good about doing." When you do that, when you know that you've done it right, it doesn't feel like work. It doesn't feel like a job. It feels like you want to wake up, and you can't get enough of it. And I think that's when you know you've done something right. So I think the more that we can lead mission-driven businesses, mission-driven lives, the better that will be. In the end of the day, I think that life and business converge. I think in the end of the day when you do it right, it doesn't feel like work, and it doesn't feel like you're working or not working. It just feels like you're trying to do good, you're trying to help other people, and hopefully good things happen. >> Great stuff. The thing I love about digital is you start to see that blending of analog and digital where lives are now part of each other. If you could go back and be 18 and 20 again with all the tools that we have out there now, open-source at a whole new level, you have everyone's connected, what were some of the things that you would do? If you had to go back and talk to your 18-year-old self going into Cornell with your brother, a lot more on the table to play with. Certainly, it's easier to do ventures, easier to come up with ideas, maybe more lean. What are some of the things that you would do if you were in your 20's? >> Yeah, I guess if I went back I would tell myself to make big bets and make them on where you know the future is going to be ten years from now. I think oftentimes, particularly when I was a young entrepreneur, you were living day to day or week to week where you were going, "Alright, we need to get this thing done by this day "so that we can do this tomorrow." And so we need to fly and stay up all night and end up eating and sort of doing things that are not the best sort of health-wise in order just to try to get things done or what you thought would just get things done. I think I would play a longer game, and I would encourage myself to think about, "Alright, what do I know to be the case "ten years from now and how can I focus on that?" If we go back 20 some years, two or three of the biggest companies in the world were really created in Amazon, in Apple, in Google. And I think the opportunity existed back then. So if I could go back to my-- >> You'd buy some Apple stock for sure. (laughs) >> I don't know if I would bought Apple stock, but certainly I would've made longer term bets. What those companies do that I think is phenomenal is they think about where the world's going not where the world is today. >> I think that's great advice. And it's interesting, too. You go back, and you always, everyone has those experiences in life where they would say, "I could've been there "or there." Looking forward is the key. And I think one of the interesting things about your journey is you had the time in college, make some money, put some dough in your pocket. Then you go out and you have some cash. You make an investment. You ride the wave with Right Media, and then you go the venture-backed startup. Talk about the dynamics. Specifically the venture-backed startup, because now the dynamics are changed. I mean, hell, I might go do an ICL and suddenly get subpoenaed if I did that. But you got all kinds of new opportunities to get funded, either to venture capital, either with Mayfield. Different venture architecture there you mentioned, no revenue, but funding to go build it out. What was different about doing a venture-backed startup versus the other ones? >> Yeah, I guess what I would say is first of all we have to step back and realize that when we're in these industries, we have a hard time understanding what they're doing. What venture capitalists do is just what any money manager does. They're doing allocation of capital so that they can get returns for their investors. And so in the end of the day, they're trying to make bets. Now the bets that a venture capital makes are different from someone who's buying public equities for sure, but the same sort of ideals are there which is they want to make bets on the right companies, on the right people so that they can drive profits and returns and hopefully make a difference. In the case of Moat, we were really impressed by Mayfield. We were impressed by the way that they approached the conversation with us, the way that they leaned forward. I tell entrepreneurs when you have venture capitalist meetings if three out of ten of them go well, you're in the Hall of Fame. It's like baseball. Most of the time you're not going to get that perfect chemistry. You're not going to get that feeling where, "Ah, there's something interesting here." The other thing I tell entrepreneurs is if they're not leaning forward, if they're not going, "You know what we could do? "We could do this, this, and this. "I could connect you with so and so. "We could build a business doing this. "You should think about this." If they're not doing that, they're probably not the right fit. I think about it. I'm happily married for many years with four kids. When you meet your spouse you tend to know that that's the right person. If you have to go home and say, "Alright, why don't you "send me some reasons to try to justify "why you might be the right fit for me," maybe that's not the right spouse. I think it's the same thing with venture capitalism. You ultimately want to have chemistry. Again, it comes back to people. And so Mayfield I think does a really good job of thinking about people and putting people first in that conversation. >> And it's also a team environment almost because you want to have a spouse and a venture partner who's going to be there for the good, bad, and the ugly. >> That's right. >> And be there. And that's, I think a lot of people don't get that. They want the valuation, "Oh, I got a better deal." There's no better deal when you look at the long run impact of potentially making the wrong decision. >> One of the first things that Navin Chaddha from Mayfield said to me when I first met with him is he said, "This is going to take you seven to ten years "to build this business." And I thought, "Wow, that sounds like a long time!" >> I'm going to do it in three. >> Yeah, that seems crazy. (John laughing) But he was right, and one of the things that he said to me after they invested and we had gone through a couple quarters of working. I came in and I actually had pretty high expectations of what we could do as a business. I said, "Well, if we really push the accelerator "I think we could do this number instead of this number." And he said, "Relax. "We have plenty of time. "Don't try to knock it out of the park, "and you'll make mistakes if you do that. "Just try to deliver on the numbers that you think "you can deliver realistically. "And focus on building the business." And he was right. Having that approach is smart. It's not about, "Can I make this work next quarter?" It's about, "Can I make this work over the long run?" And I learned a lot in that process. >> Well, Jonah, I really appreciate the conversation. You're an inspiration to a lot of entrepreneurs out there. And congratulations on all your great success. I guess the question is what's next for you? You got that ten year vision. What's going to happen in the next ten years? Which wave will you be riding? >> Well, I think, increasingly, we're going to live in a connected society where data is information, and data is knowledge. And I think for me I'm excited about a future world where will we use more or less data to make decisions. I think more. Will we make smarter decisions over time? Hopefully smarter decisions over time. Will we be able to catch diseases earlier? I think so. Will we be able to leave longer lives? I think so. And so some of those things end up being themes-- (no audio) >> Great, Jonah Goodhart, at Oracle now, first a founder, entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur, here as part of theCUBE's People First Network series. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music)

>>from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering. Get lab commit 2020 Brought to you by get lab. >>Welcome back. I'm Stew Minutemen, and this is get lab Commit 2020 here in San Francisco. Happy to welcome to the program. First time guests and TN Who is the co founder and CEO of Matter Most in. Nice to meet you. >>Thanks. Thanks for having me. >>Alright. S O. I always love. When you get the founders, we go back to a little bit of the why. And just from our little bit of conversation, there is a connection with get lab. You have relationships, Syd, Who's the co founder and CEO of get lab? So bring us back and tell us a little bit about that. >>Yeah, thanks. So I'm you know, I'm ex Microsoft. So I came from collaboration for many years there. And then, you know what I did after Microsoft's I started my own started a sort of video game company was backed by Y Combinator and, you know, we had were doing 85. Game engine is very, very fun on. We ran the entire company off of a messaging product. Misses, You know, a little while ago and it happens that messing product got bought by a big company and that got kind neglected. It started crashing and lose data. We were super unhappy. We tried to export and they wouldn't let us export. We had 26 gigs of all information. And when we stop paying our subscription, they would pay one less for our own information. So, you know, very unhappy. And we're like, holy cats. Like what? I'm gonna d'oh! And rather than go to another platform, we actually realized about 10 million hours of people running messaging and video games. Well, why don't we kind of build this ourselves? So we kind of build a little prototype, started using ourselves internally and because, you know, Sid was this a 2015 and said was out of my Combinator, We were y commoner would invent and we started talking. I was showing him what we built and sits like. You should open source that. And he had this really compelling reason. He's like, Well, if you open source it and people like it, you can always close source it again because it's a prototype. But if you open source, it and no one cares. You should stop doing what you do. And he was great. Kind of send me like this email with all the things you need to dio to run open source business. And it was just wonderful. And it just it is a start taking off. We started getting these wonderful, amazing enterprise customers that really saw what mattered most was at the very beginning, which was You know, some people call us open source slack, but what it really is, it's a collaborates, a collaboration platform for real Time Dev ops and it release. For people who are regulated, it's gonna offer flexibility and on Prem deployment and a lot of security and customization. So that's kind of we started and get lab is we kind of started Farley. We started following get labs footsteps and you'll find today with get lab is we're we're bundled with the omnibus. So all you have to do is put what your own would you like matter most on one. Get lab reconfigure and europe running. >>Yeah, I love that. That story would love you to tease out a little bit when you hear you know, open source. You know, communications and secure might not be things that people would necessarily all put together. So help us understand a little bit the underlying architecture. This isn't just, you know, isn't messaging it, Z how is it different from things that people would be familiar with? >>Yeah, that's a great question. So how do you get more secure with open source products? And the one thing look at, I'll just give you one example. Is mobility right? So, in mobile today, if you're pushing them, if you're setting a push notification to an Iowa, sir. An android device, It has a route through, like Google or Android. Right? And whatever app that you're using to send those notifications they're going to see you're going to see your notifications. They have to, right? So you just get encryption all that stuff in order to send to Google and Andrew, you have to send it on encrypted. And you know these applications are not there, not yours. They're owned by another organization. So how do you make that private how to make it secure? So with open source communication, you get the source code. It's an extreme case like we have you know, perhaps you can views, and it's really simple in turnkey. But in the if you want to go in the full privacy, most security you have the full source code. APS. You have the full source code to the system, including what pushes the messages to your APS, and you can compiling with your own certificates. And you can set up a system where you actually have complete privacy and no third party can actually get your information. And why enterprises in many cases want that extreme privacy is because when you're doing incident response and you have information about a vulnerability or breach that could really upset many, many critical systems. If that information leaked out, you really can't. Many people don't want ever to touch 1/3 party. So that's one example of how open source lets you have that privacy and security, because you because you control everything >>all right, what we threw a little bit the speeds and feeds. How many employees do you have? How many did you share? How many customers you have, where you are with funding? >>So where we are funding is, you know, last year we announced a 20 million Siri's A and A 50 million Siri's be who went from about 40 folks the beginning the aired about 100 a t end of the year. We got over 1000 people that contribute to matter most, and what you'll find is what you'll find is every sort of get lab on the bus installations. Gonna have a matter most is gonna have the ability to sort of turn on matter most so very broad reach. It's sort of like one step away. There's lots of customers. You can see it. Get lab commit that are running matter. Most get lab together, so customers are going to include Hey, there's the I T K and Agriculture that's got six times faster deployments running. Get lab in Madame's together, you've got world line. It's got 3000 people in the system, so you've got a lot of so we're growing really quickly. And there's a lot of opportunity working with Get lab to bring get lab into mobile into sort of real times. Dev up scenarios. >>Definitely One of the themes we hear the at the show is that get labs really enabling the remote workforce, especially when you talk about the developers. It sounds like that's very much in line with what matters most is doing. >>Absolutely. Madam Mrs Moat. First, I don't actually know. We're probably in 20 plus countries, and it's it's a remote team. So we use use matter most to collaborate, and we use videoconferencing and issue tracking across a bunch of different systems. And, yeah, it's just it's remote. First, it's how it's how we work. It's very natural. >>Yeah, it just give us a little bit of the inside. How do you make sure, as a CEO that you, you know, have the culture and getting everyone on the same page when many of them, you know, you're not seeing them regularly? Some of them you've probably never met in person, so >>that's a great question. So how do you sort of maintain that culture 11? The concert that get lips pioneered is a continent boring solutions, and it's something that we've taken on as well. What's the most boring solution to preserve culture and to scale? And it's really do what get labs doing right? So get love's hand, looked up. Get lab dot com. We've got handbook that matter most dot com. It's really writing down all the things that how we operate, what our culture is and what are values are so that every person that onboard is gonna get the same experience, right? And then what happens is people think that if you're building, you're gonna have stronger culture because, you know, sort of like, you know, absorbing things. What actually happens is it's this little broken telephone and starts echoing out, and it's opposed to going one source of truth. It's everyone's interpretation. We have a handbook and you're forced to write things down. It's a very unnatural act, and when you force people to write things down, then you get that consistency and every we can go to a source of truth and say, like, This is the way we operate. >>2019 was an interesting year for open source. There were certain companies that were changing their models as toe how they do things. You started it open source to be able to get, you know, direct feedback. But how do you position and talk to people about you know, the role of open source on still being ableto have a business around that >>so open source is, I think there's a generation of open source cos there's three ways you can really make money from open source, right? You can host software, you can provide support, and service is where you can do licensing, which is an open core model. When you see his categories of companies like allowed, you see categories like elastic like Hash corporate Terra Form involved with Get Lab that have chosen the open core model. And this is really becoming sort of a standard on what we do is we fall that standard, and we know that it supports public companies and supports companies with hyper growth like get Lab. So it's a very it's becoming a model that I'm actually quite familiar to the market, and what we see is this this sort of generation, this sort of movement of okay, there was operating systems Windows Circle. Now there's now there's more servers running Lennix than Windows Server. On Azure, you seen virtual ization technology. You've seen databases all sort of go the open source way and we see that it's a natural progression of collaboration. So it's really like we believe collaboration will go the open source way we believe leading the way to do that is through open core because you can generate a sustainable, scalable business that's going to give enterprises the confidence to invest in the right platform. >>All right, in what's on deck for matter most in 2020. >>It's really we would definitely want to work with. Get lab a lot more. We really want to go from this concept of concurrent Dev ops that get labs really champion to say Real time de Bob's. So we've got Dev ops in the world that's taking months and weeks of cycle times. And bring that down to minutes. We want to take you know, all your processes that take hours and take it down to seconds. So what really people, developers air sort of clamoring for a lot is like, Well, how do we get these if I'm regulated if I have a lot of customization needs? If I'm on premise, if I'm in a private network, how do I get to mobile? How do I get quicker interactions on? We really want to support that with instant response with deficit cock use cases and with really having a complete solution that could go from all your infrastructure in your data center, too. You know, that really important person walking through the airport. And that's that's how you speed cycle times and make Deb sec cops available anywhere. And you do it securely and in do it privately. >>All right, thanks so much for meeting with us. And great to hear about matter most. >>Well, thank you. Still >>all right. Be sure to check out the cube dot net for all the coverage that we will have throughout 2020 I'm still minimum. And thanks for watching the cue.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017, brought to you by Oracle. (dynamic music) >> John: Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live. Day two coverage of Oracle's Modern CX Modern Customer Experience #ModernCX. Also check out all the great coverage here on The Cube, but also on the web, a lot of great stories and one of the people behind all that is Des Cahill, who's joining Peter Burris and myself. Kicking off day two, Des, great to see you, Head of Customer Experience Evangelist, involved in a lot of the formation and really the simplification of the messaging across Cloud, so it's really one story. >> Yeah, absolutely, so John, Peter, great to be here. You know, I think the real story is about our customers and businesses that are going through transformation. So everything that we're doing at Oracle, in our CX organizations, helping these organizations make their digital business transformation and the reason they're going through this transformative process is to meet the demands of their customers. I'd say it's the era of the empowered customer. They're empowered by social, mobile, Cloud technologies and all of us in our daily lives can relate to the fact that over the last five, 10 years, the way that we buy, our journey as we buy products, as we do research, is completely different, than it used to be, right. >> Talk about the evolution, talk about the evolution of what's happening this week, because I think this is kind of a mark in time, at least from our observation, covering Oracle, this is our eighth year and certainly second year with the modern marketing experience now, >> Des: Yeah. >> the modern customer experience, where the feedback in the floor, and this is noteworthy, is that the quality is great, people at the booth are highly qualified, but it's simple. It's one fabric of messaging, one fabric of product. It feels like a platform, >> Yeah. >> and is that by design (laughs) or is that kind of the next step in the evolution of, >> Des: Yeah, John. >> Marketing Cloud meets Real Cloud and? >> Yeah, yeah, so absolutely John. I mean that, that is by design and again, to support our customers and their needs on this digital business transformation journey, it starts obviously with fantastic marketing, we've just got fantastic capabilities within our Marketing Cloud, but then that extends to Sales Cloud. If you generate leads in marketing and you're not handing them over to sales effectively or of a good sales automation engine and that goes on to commerce, CPQ, social, and service. And all of this, if we bring this back down to again, this notion of the empowered customer, if you're not providing those customers with connected experiences across marketing, sales, service, commerce, you're not... you're going to, you might lose those customers. I mean, we expect connected experiences across our whole journey. If I'm calling my cell phone provider, 'cause I got a problem, I don't, and I don't want to call one person, get transferred to another person and then go to the website to chat with someone, have a disconnected experience. I want them to, when I call, I want them to understand my history, my status as a customer, I'm spending 500 dollars a month on them, the problems I've had before. I want them to have context and to know me in that moment and as Mark Hertz says, it's like a moment of truth with my cell phone provider. Are they going to delight me and turn me into a customer advocate, or am I going to leave and go to another cell phone provider? >> Well let's talk just for a second, and I want to get your comments on this and how it relates specifically to what we're saying here. Digital has two enormous impacts. One, as you said, that a customer can take their research activities with them, on their cell phone. >> Yeah. They have learned, because of commerce and electronic commerce, they've learn to expect and demand a certain style of engagement >> Des: Right. >> and that's not going to change, so if you are not doing those things-- >> We like to say Amazon is the new benchmark, either B to C or B to B, it doesn't matter, right. >> It is a benchmark, at least on the commerce side, so it's, so that's one change, is that customers are empowered. The second big change though, is that increasingly, digital allows people to render products more as services and that's in many respects, what the Cloud's all about. >> Des: Right. >> How do you take an asset, that is a machine and render it as a service to someone? Well now we can actually use digital technologies to render things more as services. The combination of those two things are incredibly powerful, because customers, who now have the power to evaluate and change decisions all the time are now constantly making decisions, because it's a pay-as-you-go service world now. >> Des: Right. >> So how do those two things come together and inform the role, that marketing is going to play inside a business, 'cause increasingly, it seems to us that marketing is going to have to own that continuous, ongoing engagement and deliver that consistent value, so a customer does not leave, 'cause you have more opportunities to leave now. >> Well, I, so I think that's a good observation, Peter. I do think that marketers can play, and do play, a leading role in being the advocate for the customer within the brand, within the company and as a marketer myself, I think about not just the marketing function, but I think about, well, what is the experience, that that lead or that prospect going to have when I hand over to sales? And what is the experience that they are going to have, when I hand them over to service? And in my past roles as a CMO, the challenge I always faced was that I couldn't get information out of the sales automation system or out of the service automation system, so as a marketer, I couldn't optimize my marketing mix and I didn't have visibility on which opportunities I passed, which leads I passed over turned into the best opportunities, turned into the best deals, turned into the customers, that were most loyal, that got cross-sold and up-sold and were the happiest. So I think, going back to Oracle's strategy in all of this, it's about having a connected, end-to-end suite of Cloud applications, so that there's a consistent set of data, that is enabling these consistent, personalized, and immediate experiences. >> I think that's interesting and I want to just validate that, because I think, that is to me, the big sign that I think you guys are on the right track and executing and by the way, some of the things you're talking about used to be the holy grail, they're actually real now. >> Des: Right. >> The dynamic is the silos are a symptom of a digital-analog relationship. >> Des: Right. >> So when you have all digital, the moment of truth starts here, it's all digital. So in that paradigm, end-to-end wins. And at Mobile World Congress this year, one of the main themes when they talk about 5G, and all these things, that were going on, was you know, autonomous vehicles, (laughs) media entertainment, smart cities, a smart home, you know, talk to things. To your point, that's an end-to-end, so the entire world wants-- >> Des: Throw IoT in there. >> Throw IoT, >> Right. >> So again, these digital connections are all connected, so therefore, it is essentially an end-to-end opportunity. So whoever can optimize that end-to-end, while being open, while having access to the data, >> Des: Right. >> will be the winning formula. >> Des: Right. >> And that is something that we see and you obviously have that. >> And then the other piece is how do you actualize that data? Right, and I know you spoke with Jack Berkowitz about adaptive intelligent apps, it's, we're taking approach to artificial intelligence of saying, how can we bring to bear the power of machine learning, dynamic decision science, so that all this data, that's being collected and enabled by all these digital touch points, these digital signals, how do you take that data and how do you actualize that, 'cause the reality is, 80% of data that's collected today is dark, it's untouched, it's just collected, right. >> Well, here is the hard question for you, you know I am going to ask this, so I am going to ask it, here's the hard question. >> Des: Yeah. >> It really comes down to the data, and if you don't, you, connected networks and all that good stuff is great fabric, end-to-end. >> Des: Absolutely, yeah. >> This is certainly the future, it's the new normal, it's coming fast. >> Right. >> But at the end of the day, the conversation we've been having here is about the data. >> Des: Yes. >> What is your position with Oracle on connecting that data, 'cause that ultimately is what needs to flow. >> Des: Right. >> How does that work? Can you just take a minute to >> Sure, sure. >> to address that, how the data flows? >> Yeah, I think it starts with our end-to-end connected applications, that are able, that are connected with each other natively and are sharing that same data set. We obviously recognize that customers have mixed environments, so in those cases, we can certainly use our technologies to connect to their existing data stores, to synchronize with their existing systems, so it all starts with the cleanliness and quality of that baseline customer data. The second piece I'd say, is that we've made a lot of investments over the last five years in Oracle Data Cloud and Oracle Data Cloud is a set of anonymized, third party data. We've got 5 billion consumer IDs, we've got a billion business IDs. We've got a tremendous amount of data sources. We just announced a recent acquisition of a company called Moat, last week at our Oracle Data Cloud Summit in New York City. So we've made a tremendous investment in third party data, that can augment anonymized third party data, that can augment first party data, to allow people to have not just a connected view of the customer, but more of a comprehensive view and understanding of their customers, so that they can better talk to them and get them better experiences. >> That's the key there, that we're hearing with this intelligent, adaptive intelligent app kind of environment, >> Yeah, yeah. >> where machine learning. The third party data integrating within the first party data, that seems to be the key. Is that right, >> Absolutely. >> did I get that right? >> Yeah, well I would say there's a number of points, so I would say that, that, you know, you can think of the Oracle Data Cloud combining with the BlueKai DMP and being a great ad-tech business for us and a great solution for digital marketers in and of itself. What we've done with adaptive intelligent apps is that we've combined that third party data with decision science machine learning AI and we've coupled that with the Oracle Cloud infrastructure and the scale and power of that. So we're able to deliver real-time, adaptive learning and dynamic offers and content at 130 millisecond clips. So this is real-time interaction, so we are getting signals every time someone clicks, it's not a batch mode, one-off kind of thing. The third piece is that we have designed these, designed these apps to just embed natively, to plug into our existing CX applications. So if you're a marketer, you're a service professional, you're a sales professional, you can get value out of this day one. You've got a tremendous data set. You've got real-time, adaptive artificial intelligence and it plugs right into your existing apps. It's a win-win. Take your first party data, take your third party data, combine it together, put some decision science on there, some high bandwidth, incredible scale infrastructure and you're getting, you're starting to get to one-to-one marketing. You're freeing your marketing teams from being data analysts and segmenting and trying to get insight and you're letting the machine do that work and you're freeing up, you're freeing up your human capital to be thinking about higher-level tasks, about offers and merchandising and creative and campaigns and channels. >> Well, the way we think about it, Des, and I'll test you on this, is we think ultimately the machines are going to offer options. So they're going to do triage on a lot of this data >> Des: Right, right. >> and offer options to human decision-makers. Some of the discretions, we see three levels of interaction, >> Des: Yeah. >> Automated interaction, which, quite frankly, we're doing a lot of that today in finance systems. >> Des: Yes. >> But then we get to autonomous vehicles, highly deterministic networks, highly deterministic behaviors, >> Des: Right. >> that's what's going to be required in autonomy. No uncertainty. Where we have environmental uncertainty, i.e. that temperature's going to change or I, some IoT things are going to change, that's where we see the idea of turning the data and actuating it in the context of that environmental uncertainty. >> Des: Right. >> We think that this is all going to have an impact on the human side, what we call systems of augmentation, >> Des: Right. >> where the system's going to provide options to a human decision-maker, the discretion stays with the human decision-maker, culpability stays with the human decision-maker, >> Des: Right. >> but the quality of the options determine the value of the systems. >> So the augmentation is-- >> The augmentation's great. >> So let me give you a great example of that with AIA. So, take for example, you're a pro photographer and you got a big shoot the next day and your camera, your main camera you bought three months ago, it breaks. And you buy all your stuff at photog.com and you call 'em up and what could happen today? "Hi, what's your account number? "Who are you? "Wait, let me look you up, OK. "I'm sorry, I'm not authorized to get you a return." You know, boom, and the person's like, "I'm never going to buy from them again." Right, it's that moment of truth. Contrast that with a, 'cause the person making that decision, if it was the CEO getting that call, the CEO would be like, "We're going to get you a camera immediately." But that person that they're talking to is five levels down in a call center, Bismarck, North Dakota. If that person had AI, adaptive intelligent apps helping them out, then the AI would do the work in the background of analyzing the customer's lifetime value, their social reach, so their indirect lifetime value. It would look at their customer health, how many other services issues, that they have. It would look at, are there any warranty issues or known service failure issues on that camera and then it would look at a list of stores, that were within a five mile radius of that customer, that had those cameras in stock. And it would authorize an immediate pickup and you're on your way. It would just inform that person and enable them to make that decision. >> Even more than that, and this is a crucially important point, that we think people don't get when they talk about a lot of this stuff. These systems have to deliver not only data, but also authority. >> Exactly. The authority has to flow with the data. >> Des: Right. >> That's one of the advantages-- >> On both sides, by the way, on the identity and-- >> On both sides. >> And I think that employee wants that empowerment. >> Absolutely. >> No one wants to take a call and not make the customer happy, right. >> Peter: Absolutely, >> Yeah. >> because that's a challenge with some of the bolt-on approaches to some of these big applications, is that, yeah, >> Exactly. >> you can deliver a result, but then how is the result >> How is it manifested? >> integrated into the process >> Right. >> that defines and affords authority to actually make the decision? >> OK, so let's see, where are we on the progress bar then. because we had a great interview yesterday with the CMO from Time Warner. >> Yeah. >> OK, Kristen O'Hara, she was amazing. But basically, there was no old way of doing data, they were Time Warner, (laughs) they're old school media and they set up a project, you guys came in, Oracle came in, and essentially got them up and running, and it's changed their business practice overnight. >> Des: Right, right. >> So, and the other thing we heard yesterday was a lot of the stuff that was holy grail-like capabilities is actually being delivered. So give us a slice-and-dice what's shipping today, that's, that's hot and where's the work area that's road-mapped for Oracle? >> Sure, well-- >> And were you guys helping customers? >> Sure, I'll talk about a couple of examples, where we're helping customers. So, Denon and Marantz, high end audio company, brand's been around 100 years. The way music is delivered, is consumed, has changed radically in the last 20 years, changed radically in the last 10 years, changed even more radically in the last five years, so they've had to change their business model to keep up with that. They are embedding Oracle IoT Cloud into every product they sell, except their headphones, so all their speakers, all their AV receivers and they are using IoT data and Oracle Service Cloud to inform, not only service issues, like for example, they are, they're detecting failures pro-actively and they're shipping out new speakers, before they fail or they're pushing firmware to fix the problem, before it happens. They're not only using it to inform their service, they're using it to inform their R&D and their sales and marketing. Great example, they ship wireless speakers, HEOS wireless speakers, highly recommend 'em, I bought 'em for my kids for Christmas, they're the bomb. But customers were starting to... They were getting a lot of failures in these wireless speakers. They looked up the customer data, then they looked up the IoT data. They found that 80% of the speaker failures, the products were labeled Bathroom as location in the configuration of their home network setup and what they realized was that customers were listening to music in the bathroom, which is a use case they never thought of and the speakers weren't made to be water or humidity-proof, so they went to the R&D department, 14 months later, they ship a line of waterproof HEOS speakers. The second thing is they found people, who were labeling their speakers, Patio, they were using it on the patio, they didn't even have a rechargeable battery on it, so they came out with a line with a rechargeable battery on it. So they're not only using IoT data, for a machine maintenance function, >> John: 'cause they were behaving-- >> they're using IoT data to inform, inform R&D and they're also doing incredible marketing and sales activities. We had Don Freeman, the CMO of Denon on the main stage yesterday, talking about this great, great stuff they're doing. >> And what's the coolest thing this week, that you're looking at, you're proud of or excited about? >> I'm excited about a lot of stuff, John. This week is realized, you alluded to this week has been really, really fun, really great, a lot of buzz, obviously a lot of buzz around adaptive, intelligent apps and we've talked about that. But I would say also beyond a doubt, that intelligent apps for CX, we've introduced some great things in our Service Cloud, the capability to have a video chat, so Pella Windows was also on one of our panels today and they were talking about the ability for, to solve a service issue, the ability to show a video of what's going on, just increases the speed with which something can be diagnosed so much faster. We're integrating on the Service Cloud, we're integrating with WeChat and we're integrating with Facebook Messenger. Now, why would you do that? Well again, it comes back to this era of the empowered consumer. It's not enough that a company just has a website or an 0800 number that you can go to for support. Consumers are spending more time in social messaging apps, than they are on social messaging sites, so if the consumer wants to be served on Facebook Messenger, 'cause they spend their time on it, the brand has to meet them there. >> John: Yeah. >> The third thing would be the ability for the Marketing Cloud and Service and Sales Cloud, we've got chat bots, voice-driven, text-driven, AI-driven, so mobile assistant for the sales professionals, so you can input data on the road, "Hey, open an account, here's the data "for the transaction here what's going on." >> John: Yeah. >> Incredible, incredible stuff going on all over the stack. >> I think the thing, that excites me, is I look at the videos from last year and the theme was, "Man, you guys have "all these awesome acquisitions," >> Des: Right. >> "But you have this opportunity with the data," and you guys knew that and you guys tightened that together and doubled down on the data >> Des: Yeah, with banking, yeah-- >> and so I thought that was a great job and I like the messenging's clean, I think but more importantly is that in any sea change, you know, we joke about this, as we're kind of like historians and we've seen a lot of waves, >> Des: Right, for sure. >> and all these major waves, when the user's expectations shift, that's the opportunity. I think what you guys nailed here is that, and Peter alluded to it as well, is that the users are expecting things differently, completely differently. >> Let me share a stat with you. 50% of the companies that were in the Fortune 500 in the year 2000, are either out of business, acquired, gone, 50% and those companies, >> Dab or die. >> Blockbuster, Borders, did they stay relevant? >> John: Yeah. I think changing business practice based on data is what's happening, it's awesome. Des Cahill, here on The Cube. More live coverage, day two of Modern CX, Modern Customer Experience, #ModernCX. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris, we'll be right back. (dynamic music)