>>mhm Yes, everyone, welcome back to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Got a great segment here. One of the big supporters and open source amazon web services returning back second year. Dr khan virtual Deepak Singh, vice president of the compute services at AWS Deepak, Great to see you. Thanks for coming back on remotely again soon. We'll be in real life. Reinvent is going to be in person, we'll be there. Good to see you. >>Good to see you too, john it's always good to do these. I don't know how how often I've been at the cube now, but it's great every single time your >>legend and getting on there, a lot of important things to discuss your in one of the most important areas in the technology industry right now and that is at the confluence of cloud scale and modern development applications as they shift towards as Andy Jassy says, the new guard, right. It's been happening. You guys have been a big proponent of open source and enabling open source is a service creating business models for companies. But more importantly, you guys are powering, making it easier for folks to use software. And doctor has been a big relationship for you. Could you take a minute to first talk about the doctor, a W S relationship and your involvement and what you're doing? >>Yeah, actually it goes back a long way. Uh you know, Justin, we announced PCS had reinvented 2014 and PCS at that time was very much managed orchestration service on top of DACA at that time. I think it was the first really big one out there from a cloud provider. And since then, of course, the world has evolved quite a bit and relationship with DR has evolved a lot. The thing I'd like to talk to is something that we announced that Dr last year, I don't remember if I talked about it on the cube at that time. But last year we started working with DR on how can we go from doctor Run, which customers love or DR desktop, which customers love and make it easy for people to run containers on pcs and Fergie. Uh so most new customers running containers and AWS today start with this Yes and party or half of them and we wanted to make it very easy for them to start with where they are on the laptop which is often bucket to stop and have running services the native US. So we started working with DR and that that collaboration has been very successful. We want to keep you look forward to continuing to work on evolving that where you can use Docker compose doctor, desktop, doctor run the fuel that darker customers used and the labour grand production services on the end of your side, which is the part that we've got that on. So I think that's one area where we work really well together. Uh, the other area where I think the two companies continue to work well together. It's open source in general as some of, you know, AWS has a very strong commitment to contain a. D uh, EKS our community service is moving towards community. Forget it actually runs all on community today and uh, we collaborate dr Rhonda on the Ocr specification because, you know, the Oc I am expect is becoming the de facto packaging format idea. W S. This morning we launched yesterday, we launched a service called Opera. And the main expected input for opera is an Ocr image are being in this Atlanta as well, where those ci images now a way of packaging for lambda. And I think the last one I like to call out and it has been an amazing partnership and it's an area where most people don't pay attention is amid signing. Uh, there's a project called Notary. We do the second version of the Notary Spec for remit signing and AWS Docker and a couple of other companies have been working very closely together on bringing that uh, you know, finalizing no tv too, so that at least in our case we can start building services for our customers on top of that. You know, it's it's a great relationship and I expect to see it continue. >>Well, I think one of the themes this year is developer experience. So good. Good call out there in the new announcements on the tools you have and software because that seems to be a great developer integration with Docker question I have for you is how should the customers think about things like E C. S and versus E K. S. App, Runner lambda uh for kind of running their containers. How do they understand the difference is, what's there? What's the, what's the thought process there? What's >>that? It's a good question actually been announced after. And I think there was one of the questions I started getting on twitter. You know, let's start at the very beginning. Anyone can pick up a Docker container and run it on easy to today. You can run it on easy to, we can run a light sail, but doc around works just fine. It's the limits machine. Then people want to do more complex things. They want to run large scale orchestrated services. They won't run their entire business and containers. We have customers will do that today. Uh, you know, you have people like Vanguard who runs a significant portion of the infrastructure on pcs frg or you have to elope with the heavy user of chaos, our community service. So in general, if you're running large scale systems, you're building your platforms, you're most likely to use the csny Chaos. Um, if you come from a community's background, you're, you're running communities on prem or you want the flexibility and control the communities gives you, you're gonna end up with the chaos. That's what we see our customers doing. If you just want to run containers, you want to use AWS to its fullest extent where you want the continue a P I to be part of the W A S A P. I said then you pick is yes. And I think one of the reasons you see so many customers start with the CSN, Forget is with forget to get the significant ease of use from an operational standpoint. And we see many start ups and you know, enterprises, especially security focus enterprises leaning towards farming. But there's a class of customers that doesn't want to think about orchestration that just wants. Here's my code, here's my container image just run my service for me and that's when things like happen, I can come and that's one of the reasons we launched it. Land is a little bit different. Lambda is a unique service. You buy into an event driven architecture. If you do that, then you can figure our application into this. That's they should start its magic. Uh, the container part, there is what land announced agreement where they now support containers, packaging. So instead of zip files, you can package up your functions as containers. Then lambda will run them for you. The advantage it gives you with all the tooling that you built, that you have to build your containers now works the land as well. So I won't call and a container orchestration service in the same sense of the CSC cso Afrin are but it definitely allows the container image format as a standard packaging format. I think that's the sort of universal common theme that you find across AWS at this point of time. >>You know, one of the things that we're observing at this at this event here is a lot of developers Coop con and Lennox foundations. A lot of operators to kubernetes hits that. But here's developers. And the thing is I want to ease of use, simplicity experience, but also I want the innovation. Yeah, I want all of it. When I ask you what is amazon bring to the table for the new equation, what would you say? >>Yeah, I mean for me it's always you've probably heard me say this 100 times. Many 1000 times. It's foggy fog. It's unique to us. It takes a lot of what we have learned about operating infrastructure scale. The question we asked ourselves, you know, in many ways we talk about forget even before belong pcs but we have to learn on what it meant and what customers really wanted. But the idea was when you are running clusters of instances of machines to run containers on, you have to start thinking about a lot of things that in some ways VMS but BMS in the car were taken away capacity. What kind of infrastructure to run it on? Should have been touched. Should have not been back. You know, where is my container running? Those are things. They suddenly started having to think about those kind of backwards almost. So the idea was how can we make your containerized bundles? So TCS task or community is part of the thing that you talk to and that is the main unit that you operate on. That is the unit that you get built on and meet it on. That's where Forget comes in and it allows us to do many interesting things. We've effectively changed the engine of forget since we've launched it. Uh, we run it on ec two instances and we run it on fire cracker. Uh, we have changed the forget agent architecture. We've made a lot of underneath the hood, uh, changes that even take the take advantage of the broader innovation, the rate of us, We did a whole bunch more to launch acronym trans on top of family customers don't have to think about it. They don't have to worry about it. It happens underneath the hood. It's always your engine as as you go along and it takes away all the operational pain of managing clusters of running into picking which instances to use to getting out, trying to figure out how to bend back and get efficiency. That becomes our problem. So, you know, that is an area where you should expect to see a Stuart done more. It's becoming the fabric of so many things that eight of us now. Uh, it's, you know, in some ways we're just talking a lot more to do. >>Yeah. And it's a really good time. A lot more wave of developers coming in. One of the things that we've been reporting on on Silicon England cube with our cute videos is more developers keep on coming on, more people coming in and contributing to the open source community. Even end users, not just the normal awesome hyper scholars you're talking about like classic, I call main street enterprises. So two things I want to ask you on the customer side because you have kind of to customers, you have the community that open source community and you have enterprise customers that want to make it easier. What are you seeing and hearing from customers? I know you guys work backwards from the customer. So I got to ask you work backwards from the community and work backwards from the enterprise customer. What's going on in their environment? What's the key trends that they're riding? What's the big challenges? What's the big opportunities that they're facing and saying for the community? >>Yeah, I start with the enterprise. That's almost an easier answer. Which is, you know, we're seeing increasingly enterprises moving into the cloud wholesale. Like in some ways you could argue that the pandemic has just accelerated it, but we have started seeing that before. Uh they want to move to the cloud and adult modern best practices. Uh If you see my talk agreement last few years, I've talked about modernization and all the aspects of modernization, and that's 90% of our conversation with enterprises, I've walked into a meeting supposedly to talk about containers, whatever half a conversation is spent on. How does an organization modernize? What does an organization need to do to modernize and containers and serverless play a pretty important part in it, because it gives them an opportunity to step away from the shackles of sort of fixed infrastructure and the methods and approaches that built in. But equally, we are talking about C I C. D, you know, fully automated deployments. What does it mean for developers to run their own services? What are the child, how do you monitor and uh, instrument uh, your services? How do you do observe ability in the modern world? So those are the challenges that enterprises are going towards, and you're spending a ton of time helping them there. But many of them are still running infrastructure on premises. So, you know, we have outpost for them. Uh, you know, just last week, you're talking to a bunch of our customers and they have lots of interesting ideas and things that they want to do without both, but many of them also have their own infrastructure and that's where something like UCS anywhere came from, which is hey, you like using Pcs in the cloud, You like having the safety i that just orchestrates containers for you. It does it on on his in an AWS region. It will do it in an outpost. It'll do it on wavelength, it'll do it on local zone. How about we allow you to do it on whatever infrastructure you bring to us. Uh you want to bring a raspberry pi, you can do that. You want to bring your on premises data center infrastructure, we can do that or a point of sale device, as long as you can get the agent running and you can connect to an AWS region, even though it's okay to lose connectivity every now and then. We can orchestrate a container for you over there and, you know, the same customer that likes the ease of use of Vcs. And the simplicity really resonated with that message really resonates with them. So I think where we are today with the enterprise is we've got some really good solutions for you in eight of us and we are now allowing you to take those a. P. I. S and then launch containers wherever you want to run them, whether it's the edge or whether it's your own data center. I think that's a big part of where the enterprise is going. But by and large, I think yes, a lot of them are still making that change from running infrastructure and applications the way they used to do a modern sort of, if you want to use the word cloud native way and we're helping them a lot. We've done, the community is interesting. They want to be more participatory. Uh that's where things like co pilot comes from. God, honestly, the best thing we've ever done in my order is probably are open road maps where the community can go into the road map and engage with us over there, whether it's an open source project or just trying to tell us what the feature is and how they would like to see it. It's a great engagement and you know, it's not us a lot. It's helped us prioritize correctly and think about what we want to do next. So yeah, I think that's, that >>must be very hard to do for opening up the kimono on the road map because normally that's the crown jewels and its secretive and you know, and um, now it's all out in the open. I think that is a really interesting, um, experiment and what's your reaction to that? What's been the feedback on the road map peace? Because I mean, I definitely want to see, uh, >>we do it pretty much for every service in my organization and we've been doing it now for three years. So years forget, I think about three years and it's been great. Now we are very we are very upfront, which is security and availability. Our job 000 and you know, 100 times out of 100 at altitudes between a new feature and helping our customers be available and safe. We'll do that. And this is why we don't put dates in that we just tell you directionally where we are and what we are prioritizing Uh, there every now and then we'll put something in there that, you know, well not choose not to put a feature in there because we want to keep it secret until it launches. But for the most part, 99% of our own myself there and people engaged with it. And it's not proven to be a problem because you've also been very responsible with how we manage and be very transparent on whether we can commit to something or not. And I think that's not. >>I gotta ask you on as a leader uh threaded leader on this group. Open source is super important, as you know, and you continue to do it from under years. How are you investing in the future? What's your plan? Uh plans for your team, the industry actually very inclusive, Which is very cool. It's gonna resonate well, what's the plans? Give us some details on what you're investing in, what your priorities? What's your first principles? >>Yeah, So it goes in many ways, one when I I also have the luxury also on the amazon open source program office. So, you know, I get the chance to my team, rather not me help amazon engineers participate in open source. That that's the team that helps create the tools for them, makes it easy for them to contribute, creates, you know, manages all the licenses, etcetera. I'll give you a simple example, you know, in there, just think of the cr credential helper that was written by one of our engineers and he kind of distorted because he felt it was something that we needed to do. And we made it open source in general, in in many of our teams. The first question we asked is should something the open why is this thing not open source, especially if it's a utility or some piece of software that runs along with services. So they'll step one. But we've done some big things also, I, you know, a couple of years ago we launched Lennox operating system called bottle Rocket. And right from the beginning it was very clear to us that bottle Rocket was two things. It was both in AWS product. But first it was an open source project. We've already learned a little bit from what we've done at Firecracker. But making bottle rocket and open source operating system is very important. Anyone can take part of Rocket the open source to build tooling. You can run it whatever you want. If you want to take part of Rocket and build a version and manage it for another provider. For another provider wants to do it, go for it. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. So you'll see us do a lot there. Obviously there's multiple areas. You've seen WS investing on the open source side. But to me, the winds come from when engineers can participate in small things, released little helpers or get contributions from outside. I think that's where we're still, we can always have that. We're going to continue to strive to make it better and easier. And uh, you know, I said, I have, you know, me and my team, we have an opportunity to help their inside the company and we continue to do so. But that's what gets me excited. >>Yeah, that's great stuff. And congratulations on investing in the community, really enjoys it and I know it moves the needle for the industry. Deepak, I gotta ask you why I got you here. Dr khan obviously, developers, what's the most important story that they should be paying attention to as a developer because of what's going on shift left for security day two operations also known as a I ops getups, whatever you wanna call it, you know, ongoing, you get server lists, you got land. I mean, all kinds of great things are going on. You mentioned Fargate, >>um >>what should they be paying attention to that's going to really help their life, both innovation wise and just the quality of life. >>Yeah, I would say look at, you know, in the end it is very easy developers in particular, I want to build the buildings and it's very easy to get tempted to try and get learn everything about something. You have access to all the bells and whistles and knobs, but in reality, if you want to run things you want to, you want to focus on what's important, the business application, that and you the application. And I think a lot of what I'll tell developers and I think it's a lot of where the industry is going is we have built a really solid foundation, whether it's humanity, so you CSN forget or you know, continue industries out there. We have very solid foundation that, you know, our customers and develop a goal of the world can use to build upon. But increasingly, and you know, they are going to provide tools that sort of take that wrap them up and providing a nice package solution After another great example, our collaboration, the doctor around Dr desktop are a great example where we get all the mark focus on the application and build on top of that and you can get so much done. I think that's one trend. You'll see more and more. Those things are no longer toys, their production grade systems that you can build real world applications on, even though they're so easy to use. The second thing I would add to that is uh, get uh, it is, you know, you can give it whatever name you want. There's uh, there's nuances there, but I actually think get up is the way people should be running the infrastructure, my virus in my personal, you know, it's something that we believe a lot in homicide as hard as you go towards immutable infrastructure, infrastructure, automation, we can get off plays a significant role. I think developers naturally gravitate towards it. And if you want to live in a world where development and operations are tightly linked, I think it after the huge role to play in that it's actually a big part of how we're planning to do things like yes, anywhere, for example, a significant player and that it would be a proton. I think get up will be a significant in the future of proton as well. So I think that's the other trend. If you wanted to pick a trend that people should pay attention. That's what I believe in a lot. >>Well you're an expert. So I want to get you a quick definition. What is get Ops, how would you define it? Because that's a big trend. What does it, what does that mean? >>Electricity will probably shoot me for getting this wrong. I tell you how I think about it. Which is, you know, in many cases, um, you when you're doing deployments are pushing a deployment getups is more of a full deployment. When you are pushing code to get depository, you have a system that knows that the event has happened and then pulls from there and triggers the thing as opposed to you telling it take I have this new piece of code now go deployed everywhere. So to me, the biggest changes that Two parts one is it's more for full mechanism where you're pulling because something has changed. So it needs systems like container orchestrators to keep them, you know, to keep them in sync. And the second part of the natural natural evolution of infrastructure score, which is basically everything is called the figures code. Infrastructure as code, code is code and everything is getting stored in that software repo and the software repo becomes your store of record and drives everything. Uh So for a glass of customers, that's going to be a pretty big deal. >>Yeah, when you're checking in code, that's again, it's like a compiler for the compiler, a container for the container, you've got things for each other. Automation is ultimately what we're talking about here. And that's to me where machine learning kicks in. So again, having this open source foundational fabric, as you said, forget out the muck or the undifferentiated heavy lifting. This is what we're talking about automation, isn't it? Deepak? >>Yes. I mean I said uh one thing where we hang our hat on is there's such good stuff out there in the world which we like to contribute to, but the thing we like to hang our hat on is how do you run this? How do you do it this in ways that you can uniquely bring capabilities to customers where there's things like nitro or things are nitro open stuff. Well, the fact that we have built up this operational infrastructure over the last in a decade plus or in the container space over the last seven years where we really really know how to run these things at scale and have made all the investments to make it easy to do. So that's that's where we have hanger hard keeping people safe, helping them only available applications, their new startup, that just completely takes off in over the weekend. For whatever reason, because, you know, you're the next hot thing on twitter and our goal is to support you whether you are, you know, uh enterprise that's moving from the main train or you are the next hot startup, that's you know, growing virally and uh, you know, we've done a lot to build systems help both sides and yeah, it's >>interesting if you sing about open source where it's come from, I mean I remember that base wouldn't open source wasn't open, I would be peddling software, there's a free copy of Linux, UNIX um in college and now it's all free. But I mean just what's changed now. It used to be just free software, download software. You got it now, it's a service. Service now can be monetized quickly. And what you guys are offering with AWS and cloud scale is you've done all these things as I don't have to have a developer. I get the benefits of the scale, I can bring my open source code to the table, make it a service integrated in with other services and be the next snowflake, be the next, you know, a company that could scale. And that is that's the that's the innovation, right? That's the this is a new phenomenon. So it also changes the business model. >>Yeah, actually you're you're quite right. Actually, I I like one more thing to it. But you look at how a lot of enterprises use containers today. Most of them are using something like this year, Symphony or GS to build an internal developer platform and internal developer portal. And then the question then becomes this hard to scale this modern and development practices to an entire organization. What is your big bank that's been around as thousands and thousands of ID stuff That may not all be experts are running communities running container is when you scale it out different systems that proton come into play. That was actually the inspiration is how do you help an organization where they're building these developer Portholes and developer infrastructure, developer platforms, How do you make it easy for them to build it? Be almost use it as a way to get these modern practices into the hands of all the business units, where they may not have the time to become experts at the modern ways of running infrastructure because they're busy doing other things. And I think you'll see the a lot more happening that space that's not happening in the open source community. There's proton, there's a bunch of interesting things happening here and be interesting to see how that evolves. >>And also, you know, the communal, communal aspect of not just writing code together, but succeeding, right, building something. I mean, that's when you start to see the commercial meets open kind of ethos of communal activity of working together and sharing a big part of this year's. Dakar Con is sharing not just running and shipping code but sharing. >>Yeah, I mean if you think about it uh Dockers original value was you build run and shit right? You use the same code to build it, you use the same code to ship it, the same sort of infrastructure interface and then you run it and that, you know, the fact that the doctor images such a wonderfully shareable entity uh that can run every girl is such a powerful and it's called the Ci Image. Now I still call him Dr images because it's just easier. But that to me like that is a big deal and I think it's becoming and become an even bigger deal over the years. I came from something before, Amazon has to work in The sciences and bioinformatics and you know, the ability to share codeshare dependencies, package all of that up in a container image is a big deal. It's what got me one of the reasons I got fascinated with container 78 years ago. So it will be interesting to see where all of systems. >>It's great, great stuff. Great success. And congratulations. Deepak, Great to always talk to you got a great finger on the pulse. You lead a really important organizations at AWS and you know, doctor has such a huge success with developers, even though the company has gone through kind of a uh change over and a pivot to what they're doing now. They're back to their open source roots, but they have millions and millions of developers use Docker and new developers are coming in dot net developers are coming in. Windows developers are coming in and and so it's no longer about Lennox anymore. It's about just coding. >>Yeah. And it's it's part of this big trend towards infrastructure, automation and and you know development and deployment practices that I think everyone is going to adopt faster than we think they will. But you know, companies like Doctor and opens those projects that they involved are critical in making that a lot easier for them. And then you know, folks like us get to build on top of that orbit them and make it even easier. >>Well, great testimony the doctor that you guys based your E C. S on Docker Doctor has a critical role in developing community. I run composed in their hub with dr desktop and we'll be watching amazon and and the community activity and see what kind of experiences you guys can bring to the table and continue that momentum. Thank you Deepak for coming on the >>cube. Thank you, john. That's always a pleasure. >>Okay. Mr cubes. Dr khan 2021 virtual coverage. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Coop con and cloud, native con Europe 2020 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat, The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners >>Welcome back. This is the Cube coverage of Cube Con Cloud, native con, the European show for 2020. I'm your host to Minuteman. And when we talk about the container world, we talk about what's happening in cloud. Native storage has been one of those sticking points. One of those things that you know has been challenging, that we've been looking to mature and really happy to welcome back to the program two of our cube alumni to give us the update on the state of storage for the container world. Both of them are oh, founders and CEOs. First of all, we have Xiang Yang from Rancher Labs, of course, was recently acquired by Sue Save it and the intention to acquire on and also joining us from early the relay. Who is with port works? Shang Amerli. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. So early. I actually I'm going to start with you just cause you know we've seen, you know, a couple of waves of companies working on storage. In this environment, we know storage is difficult. Um, And when we change how we're building things, there's architectural things that can happen. Eso maybe if you could just give us a snapshot, you know, Port works, you know, was created to help unpack this. You know, straight on here in 2020 you know, where you see things in the overall kind of computer storage landscape? >>Absolutely. Still, before I kind of jump into port works. I just want to take a minute to publicly congratulate the the whole rancher team, and and Shang and Shannon And will China have known those folks for a while there? They're kind of true entrepreneurs. They represent the serial entrepreneur spirit that that so many folks know in the valley, and so, you know, great outcome for them. We're very happy for them and ah, big congrats and shout out to the whole team. What works is is a little over five years old, and we've been kind of right from the inception of the company recognized that to put containers in production, you're gonna have to solve, not just the orchestration problem. But the issue of storage and data orchestration and so in a natural kubernetes orchestrates containers and what works orchestrates storage and data. And more specifically, by doing that, what we enable is enterprises to be able to take APS that are containerized into production at scale and and have high availability. Disaster recovery, backup all of the things that for decades I t has had to do and has done to support application, reliability and availability. But essentially we're doing it for purpose with the purpose build solution for containerized workloads. >>Alright, shaming. Of course, storage is a piece of the overall puzzle that that ranchers trying to help with. Maybe if you could just refresh our audience on Longhorn, which your organization has its open source. It's now being managed by the CN. CF is my understanding. So help us bring Longhorn into the discussion >>thanks to. So I'm really glad to be here. We've I think rancher and port work started about the same time, and we started with a slightly different focus. More is exactly right to get containers going, you really need both so that the computer angle orchestrating containers as well as orchestrating the storage and the data. So rancher started with, ah, it's slightly stronger focus on orchestrating containers themselves, but pretty quickly, we realized, as adoption of containers grow, we really need it to be able to handle ah, storage feather. And like any new technology, you know, uh, Kubernetes and containers created some interesting new requirements and opportunities, and at the time, really, they weren't. Ah, a lot of good technologies available, you know, technologies like rook and SEF at the time was very, very premature, I think, Ah, the You know, we actually early on try to incorporate ah, the cluster technology. And it was just it was just not easy. And And at the time I think port Works was, ah, very busy developing. Ah, what turned out to be there flagship product, which we end up, end up, uh, partnering very, very closely. But but early on, we really had no choice but to start developing our own storage technology. So Long horn. As a piece of container storage technology, it's actually almost as oh, there's rancher itself. When about funding engineers, we hired he he ended up, you know, working on it and Then over the years, you know the focus shift that I think the original version was written in C plus plus, and over the years it's now being completely re written in Golan. It was originally written more for Docker workload. Now, of course, everything is kubernetes centric. And last year we you know, we we decided to donate the Longhorn Open Source project to CN CF. And now it's a CN CF sandbox project, and the adoption is just growing really quickly. And just earlier this year, we we finally ah decided to we're ready to offer a commercial support for it. So So that's that's where rancher is. And with longhorn and container storage technology. >>Yeah, it has been really interesting to watch in this ecosystem. A couple of years ago, one of the Q con shows I was talking to people coming out of the Believe It was the Sigs, the special interest group for storage, and it was just like, Wow, it was heated. Words were, you know, back and forth. There's not a lot of agreement there. Anybody that knows the storage industry knows that you know standards in various ways of doing things often are contentious and there's there's differences of opinion. Look at the storage industry. You know, there's a reason why there's so many different solutions out there. So maybe it love to hear from early. From your standpoint, things are coming to get a little bit more. There are still a number of options out there. So you know, why is this kind of coop petition? I actually good for the industry? >>Yeah, I think this is a classic example of Coop petition. Right? Let's let's start with the cooperation part right? The first part of time the you know, the early days of CN, CF, and even sort of the Google Communities team, I think, was really very focused on compute and and subsequent years. In the last 34 years, there's been a greater attention to making the whole stack works, because that's what it's going to take to take a the enterprise class production and put it in, you know, enterprise class application and put it in production. So extensions like C and I for networking and CS I container storage interface. We're kind of put together by a working group and and ah ah you know both both in the CN CF, but also within the kubernetes Google community. That's you talked about six storage as an example. And, you know, as always happens, right? Like it It looks a little bit in the early days. Like like a polo game, right where folks are really? Ah, you know, seemingly, uh, you know, working with each other on on top of the pool. But underneath they're kicking each other furiously. But that was a long time back, and we've graduated from then into really cooperating. And I think it's something we should all be proud of. Where now the CS I interface is really a A really very, very strong and complete solution tow, allowing communities to orchestrate storage and data. So it's really strengthened both communities and the kubernetes ecosystem. Now the competition part. Let's kind of spend. I want to spend a couple of minutes on that too, right? Um, you know, one of the classic things that people sometimes confuse is the difference between an overlay and an interface. CSC is wonderful because it defines how the two layers off essentially kind of old style storage. You know, whether it's a san or ah cloud, elastic storage bucket or all of those interact with community. So the the definition of that interface kind of lay down some rules and parameters for how that interaction should happen. However, you still always need an overlay like Port Works that that actually drives that interface and enables Kubernetes to actually manage that storage. And that's where the competition is. And, you know, she mentioned stuff and bluster and rook and kind of derivatives of those. And I think those have been around really venerable and and really excellent products for born in a different era for a different time open stack, object storage and all of that not really meant for kind of primary workloads. And they've been they've been trying to be adapted for, for for us, for this kind of workload. Port Works is really a built from right from the inception to be designed for communities and for kubernetes workloads at enterprise scale. And so I think, you know, as I as I look at the landscape, we welcome the fact that there are so many more people acknowledging that there is a vital need for data orchestration on kubernetes right, that that's why everybody and their brother now has a CS I interface. However, I think there's a big difference between having an interface. This is actually having the software that provides the functionality for H. A, D R. And and for backup, as as the kind of life cycle matures and doing it not just at scale, but in a way that allows kind of really significant removal or reduction off the storage admin role and replaces it with self service that is fully automated within communities. Yeah, if I >>can, you know, add something that that I completely agree. I mean, over the Longhorns been around for a long time. Like I said, I'm really happy that over the years it hasn't really impacted our wonderful collaborative partnership with what works. I mean, Poll works has always been one of our premier partners. We have a lot of, ah, common customers in this fight. I know these guys rave about what works. I don't think they'll ever get out for works. Ah, home or not? Uh huh. Exactly. Like Morissette, you know, in the in the storage space, there's interface, which a lot of different implementations can plugging, and that's kind of how rancher works. So we always tell people Rancher works with three types of storage implementations. One is let we call legacy storage. You know, your netapp, your DMC, your pure storage and those are really solid. But they were not suddenly not designed to work with containers to start with, but it doesn't matter. They've all written CS I interfaces that would enable containers to take advantage of. The second type is some of the cloud a block storage or file storage services like EBS, GFS, Google Cloud storage and support for these storage back and the CS I drivers practically come with kubernetes itself, so those are very well supported. But there's still a huge amount of opportunities for the third type of you know, we call container Native Storage. So that is where Port Works and the Longhorn and other solutions like open EBS storage OS. All these guys fitting is a very vibrant ecosystem of innovation going on there. So those solutions are able to create basically reliable storage from scratch. You know, when you from from just local disks and they're actually also able to add a lot of value on top of whatever traditional or cloud based, persistent storage you already have. So so the whole system, the whole ecosystem, is developing very quickly. A lot of these solutions work with each other, and I think to me it's really less of a competition or even Coop petition. It's really more off raising the bar for for the capabilities so that we can accelerate the amount of workload that's been moved onto this wonderful kubernetes platform in the end of the benefit. Everyone, >>Well, I appreciate you both laying out some of the options, you know, showing just a quick follow up on that. I think back if you want. 15 years ago was often okay. I'm using my GMC for my block. I'm using my netapp for the file. I'm wondering in the cloud native space, if we expect that you might have multiple different data engine types in there you mentioned you know, I might want port works for my high performance. You said open EBS, very popular in the last CN CF survey might be another one there. So is do we think some of it is just kind of repeating itself that storage is not monolithic and in a micro service architecture. You know, different environments need different storage requirements. >>Yeah, I mean quick. I love to hear more is view as well, especially about you know, about how the ecosystem is developing. But from my perspective, just just the range of capabilities that's now we expect out of storage vendors or data management vendors is just increased tremendously. You know, in the old days, if you can store blocks to object store file, that's it. Right. So now it's this is just table stakes. Then then what comes after that? There will be 345 additional layers of requirements come all the way from backup, restore the our search indexing analytics. So I really think all of this potentially off or in the in the bucket of the storage ecosystem, and I just can't wait to see how this stuff will play out. I think we're still very, very early stages, and and there, you know what? What, what what containers did is they made fundamentally the workload portable, but the data itself still holds a lot of gravity. And then just so much work to do to leverage the fundamental work load portability. Marry that with some form of universal data management or data portability. I think that would really, uh, at least the industry to the next level. Marie? >>Yeah. Shanghai Bean couldn't. Couldn't have said it better. Right? Let me let me let me kind of give you Ah, sample. Right. We're at about 160 plus customers now, you know, adding several by the month. Um, just with just with rancher alone, right, we are. We have common customers in all common video expedient Roche March X, Western Asset Management. You know, charter communications. So we're in production with a number off rancher customers. What are these customers want? And why are they kind of looking at a a a Port works class of solution to use, You know, Xiang's example of the multiple types, right? Many times, people can get started with something in the early days, which has a CS I interface with maybe say, $10 or 8 to 10 nodes with a solution that allows them to at least kind of verify that they can run the stack up and down with, say, you know, a a rancher type orchestrator, workloads that are containerized on and a network plug in and a storage plugging. But really, once they start to get beyond 20 notes or so, then there are problems that are very, very unique to containers and kubernetes that pop up that you don't see in a in a non containerized environment, right? Some. What are some of these things, right? Simple examples are how can you actually run 10 to hundreds of containers on a server, with each one of those containers belonging to a different application and having different requirements? How do you actually scale? Not to 16 nodes, which is sort of make typically, maybe Max of what a San might go to. But hundreds and thousands of notes, like many of our customers, are doing like T Mobile Comcast. They're running this thing at 600 thousands of notes or scale is one issue. Here is a critical critical difference that that something that's designed for Kubernetes does right. We are providing all off the storage functions that Shang just described at container granted, granularity versus machine granularity. One way to think about this is the old Data center was in machine based construct. Construct everything you know. VM Ware is the leader, sort of in that all of the way. You think of storage as villains. You think of compute and CPUs, everything. Sub sub nets, right? All off. Traditional infrastructure is very, very machine centric. What kubernetes and containers do is move it into becoming an app defined control plane, right? One of the things were super excited about is the fact that Kubernetes is really not just a container orchestrator, but actually a orchestrator for infrastructure in an app defined way. And by doing that, they have turned, uh, you know, control off the infrastructure via communities over to a kubernetes segment. The same person who uses rancher uses port works at NVIDIA, for example to manage storage as they use it, to manage the compute and to manage containers. And and that's marvellous, because now what has happened is this thing is now fully automated at scale and and actually can run without the intervention off a storage admin. No more trouble tickets, right? No more requests to say, Hey, give me another 20 terabytes. All of that happens automatically with the solution like port works. And in fact, if you think about it in the world of real time services that we're all headed towards right Services like uber now are expected in enterprises machine learning. Ai all of these things analytics that that change talk about are things that you expect to run in a fully automated way across vast amounts of data that are distributed sometimes in the edge. And you can't do that unless you're fully automated and and not really the storage admin intervention. And that's kind of the solution that we provide. >>Alright, well, we're just about out of time. If I could just last piece is, you know, early and saying to talk about where we are with long for and what we should expect to see through the rest of this year and get some early for you to you know, what differentiates port works from Just, you know, the open source version. So And maybe if we start with just kind of long or in general and then really from from your standpoint, >>yeah, so it's so so the go along one is really to lower the bar for folks to run state for workloads on on kubernetes we want you know, the the Longhorn is 100% open source and it's owned by CN cf now. So we in terms of features and functionalities is obviously a small subset of what a true enterprise grade solution like Port Works or, um, CEO on that that could provide. So there's just, you know, the storage role. Ah, future settle. The roadmap is very rich. I don't think it's not really Ranchers go Oh, our Longhorns goal to, you know, to try to turn itself into a into a plug in replacement for these enterprise, great storage or data management solutions. But But they're you know, there's some critical critical feature gaps that we need address. And that's what the team is gonna be focusing on, perhaps for the rest of the year. >>Yeah, uh, still, I would I would kind of, you know, echo what Chang said, right? I think folks make it started with solutions, like longer or even a plug in connector plug in with one of their existing storage vendors, whether it's pure netapp or or EMC from our viewpoint, that's wonderful, because that allows them to kind of graduate to where they're considering storage and data as part of the stack. They really should that's the way they're going to succeed by by looking at it as a whole and really with, You know, it's a great way to get started on a proof of concept architecture where your focus initially is very much on the orchestration and the container ization part. But But, as Xiang pointed out, you know what what rancher did, what I entered it for Kubernetes was build a simple, elegant, robust solution that kind of democratized communities. We're doing the same thing for communities storage right? What Port works does is have a solution that is simple, elegant, fully automated, scalable and robust. But more importantly, it's a complete data platform, right? We we go where all these solutions start, but don't kind of venture forward. We are a full, complete lifecycle management for data across that whole life cycle. So there's many many customers now are buying port works and then adding deal right up front, and then a few months later they might come back and I'd backup from ports. So two shanks point right because of the uniqueness of the kubernetes workload, because it is an app defined control plane, not machine to find what is happening is it's disrupting, Just like just like virtualization day. VM exist today because because they focused on a VM version off. You know, the their backup solution. So the same thing is happening. Kubernetes workloads are district causing disruption of the D r and backup and storage market with solutions like sports. >>Wonderful. Merlin Chang. Thank you so much for the updates. Absolutely. The promise of containers A Z you were saying? Really, is that that Atomic unit getting closer to the application really requires storage to be a full and useful solution. So great to see the progress that's being made. Thank you so much for joining us. >>Welcome, Shannon. We look forward to ah, working with you as you reach for the stars. Congratulations again. We look >>forward to the containing partnership morally and thank you. Still for the opportunity here. >>Absolutely great talking to both of you And stay tuned. Lots more coverage of the Cube Cube Con cloud, native con 2020 Europe. I'm stew minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. Part of AW re:invent, of course. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have two guests for this segment. We have Leandro Nunes. He is the Vice President of Product Development at Mastercard. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Christine Leong, she is the Managing Director, Accenture Blockchain and Biometrics. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> So sustainability is a hot topic in the industry, in all industry today and especially here at AWS re:Invent. I want to talk to you about circular supply chain which was an idea that germinated in your brain a couple of years ago, but it really just sort of launched a year ago. Tell us more about why you started CSC. >> Sure. We started this actually because, a couple of things. We drink coffee every single day, and as we go into every coffee shop and we think about, well, you see packets saying this is my single origin coffee. I pay extra for this and it's sustainably grown and yet so see news saying that the rain forest is being burned down and animals are being killed. And so about two years ago, I looked at this and I thought, "Wow, how do I know "this is really sustainable, what I'm drinking?" The extra five bucks that I'm paying at my coffee shop, is it really single origin? Is it really going to the right people? Is it really killing the orangutans and the rainforest and then I see a statistic that says, well, for every cup of coffee that we drink, a square inch of rainforest gets burned down. And, I mean, I drink at least five cups of coffee a day. So that's not good, right? So then I thought, and working, actually, with Mastercard at the time, I'm doing and still do actually do a lot of work with Mastercard around identity and biometrics and I thought, "Well, how can we combine "some of these capabilities we have "with Blockchain identity to say, "to put our money where our mouths is?" To change the incentives at the base of the pyramid where farmers, producers, smallholders. If I can say to them that I really want to care that you don't burn the forest down, that you produce in a good way. And they're just trying to survive. They're not bad people, if they are just hand to mouth. That if we can say, right, we'll pay you more as consumers and we know it's definitely going to that right person, then maybe we can help to change some of, you know, and not have the rainforests and not have my guilty cup of coffee, right? >> So even if we don't drink quite as much coffee as you, Christine, we are as a group, consumers are more socially conscious than they ever have been. What are some of the statistics here? That people just care more about this stuff, in general, and they're willing to pay premium for it. >> So, for example, the green trade is estimated, this came out from Unilever, at $2 trillion a year, by next year actually. I mean, that's a staggering statistic and as you see more and more on social media, on literally every platform that you can see. Sustainability is a huge topic with the recent UN climate discussions. I mean, next week in Madrid, it's a big topic that we should all, as responsible responsible consumers, care about. >> So Leandro, what do you see as the benefits of CSC of small actors? >> Well, it's a great point, because when you seriously think about it you usually say a lot about consumers and the big brands. And now we are protecting the big brands, but just think about the sourcing side of the supply chain, right? The small communities, the ones that are growing the coffee, the ones that are the farmers over there or the fishermen. Now, these ones have been there for a while, they are just being kind of squeezed by the whole supply chain, squeezed by the whole business. Right? You think like let's remove a little bit of their margin, let's put it into something else. Now, when you have the circle of supply chain, because consumers in this new generation is so interested in knowing where the product comes from, if they are doing the right thing. Now there's a chance that you can pay them back. It's all about coming up with an incentive model, that's what we see with Mastercard, right? When you create a network like that, which the Blockchain solution is, it's a big network. So how we can gain traction, how we can gain adoption? One thing is, you need to establish incentives through all of the parties that you have in the network. So if you're just taking care of the brand and they're going to say, "Brands, mandate to your suppliers "that needs to do that." This is not going to work. What will work is, what is the incentive the farmers are going to have? What is the sourcing? So, wait a minute. So, don't you think the farmers want to do the right thing? Of course they do, but do they have incentives for that? If it's just a letter, or if it's just someone mandating, they're not going to do it. But if you come with the idea of, "Hey, I pay you back your coffee "or whatever your product you're doing, "you can have a premium. "It's going to be sustainable to your family as well. "Your business can be more profitable." So they will see, "Okay, I want to be part of it." >> So, it's creating incentives for people, for the producers themselves to grow things more sustainably. >> It's all about that, it's not only them. And then you go to the suppliers, you go to the logistics, transportation companies. You give them the visibility. They always complain about, "How can I have the visibility of my supply chain?" "Why?" "Can you create the visibility?" You give the transparency that you create the trust. And if you'll ask people in a supply chain business what the big problem is in supply chain, it's trust. They don't trust each other, but they have to trade things and they don't trust each other. You do business with people you don't trust every single day. It's not a good thing. So, if you bring this visibility, you facilitate this and they see there's an incentive to be also part of it. >> So Christine, what are the kinds of technologies that are powering the CSC and how does it create that trust or cultivate that trust? >> And Leandro is spot on in terms of trust. It's about trusting the people, but trusting the data and trusting the entities that put in some of the data. There are components of Blockchain, of course, that serve the traceability aspects of any of the product. Blockchain also helps with the decentralized identity capability that we've put in. We've made also biometrics for the individual, but this is optional, depending on how, in terms of using it very responsibly. Payments of course, digital payments and having the ability to actually direct payments through the Mastercard rails. And then, of course, with the power of AWS and then hosting it on the cloud and be able to have that anywhere. And the different aspects of including IoT, so we know that let's say for fisheries, this product actually really came from this place, you know, there's sensors, we know that it's kept at the right temperature, therefore insurance payoffs and things like that will be right and tracked all the way through and knowing that the product is really fresh and really kept intact throughout the journey. So a whole bunch of different technology. >> Totally agreed. Projects with Blockchain only tend not to succeed and the reason is because you need to nurture the ecosystem. So how you bring the IoT-- >> Yes. >> To the table, how you bring payments, how you bring AI. You get all these solutions together and then you create what this visibility, that's the trust we need. Companies who are trying to do one side, which is just the Blockchain, they are not going anywhere. The reason that I like their alliance with Accenture and AWS is because we know that we needed to do this end-to-end and this is going to be broader than just talking about Blockchain. >> Rebecca: Yes. >> And it's about the people, because you have to, ultimately it's the consumer and the base of the pyramid, producer. Both have identities, and if we are able to say, "This is the identity of the person," I can then help to influence their livelihoods. >> So it's putting a real face on the supply chain for the end consumer. I mean, at a time where consumers are demanding more transparency in the supply chain, demanding to know more about the source of the goods, of the products that they're buying, what has been the reception and what are you hearing back? >> I think we've had great receptions. We launched it at Davos, earlier this year. We've had a huge amount of interest and now slowly we're gaining sort of traction in terms of getting the pilots and putting them in place. And I think it's also something that people need to, initially it's a little bit of education, understanding, well, how does this actually all work? You know, is it just traceability? Is it just identity? Or is it actually all of those things? Understanding the use cases and embracing that it's not just one way of doing something and it's really a concept of embracing better business through better technology and innovation can actually be more sustainable and responsible businesses. So the traction has been great and we have a number of pilots in the pipeline. >> Yeah, in the past I used to believe that some things we should stop doing or stop eating because of the sustainable part of it, and I have learned that is not the case. You can do the right thing, you can make sure that you are doing the right thing and you can eat with no guilt. That's what everybody wants, right? This is the type of visibility you want to give from the consumer side, but not from the company side of it. The brands are, "Okay, I'm safe," because brands, they have a very good visibility from the distributor on, but they don't know what's going on behind that, and our products, this is so globalized nowadays, so fragmented. You know, it comes from so many different places. Brands, there is no way that they can control it if they don't have this veil. That's why we're trying to bring together. >> So when this fully does launch and the consumer is then seeing the face of the coffee grower in Brazil or in Kenya-- >> Yeah. >> And saying, "Okay," so then what happens then? How are they able to incentivize that farmer to do the right thing, as you say? >> There is a digital payment channel, powered by Mastercard, that you can then tip, so to speak, tip the farmer, donate money and actually say, "Well, there's multiple ways of doing things." Right? For example, if I'm the consumer scanning the product and we have a whole Lego city built upstairs that can showcase this, and say, "Right, this is how it works," and scan the product and where I can say, "Right, I want to be able "to donate an extra dollar for this farmer "because I really like the fact that you are sustainable. "And not burning the rainforest down "and protecting the orangutans or elephants or the birds. "So great, I'm going to give you an extra dollar." So this is how it's going to work on the app. >> And there are other consequences as well. There are so many organic products nowadays, but they're not really organic. So if you can prove they're organic, the farmers would feel more motivated to really grow that as an organic product because there is a premium. So it's not only the tip that you give to them, but also the fact that you can create a premium price situation that will motivate others to do the same. So brands would give the differentiator, farmers would feel like, "Okay, if I do this way, "it would be more profitable," and consumers would benefit from a real organic or a real product with the sustainability behind it. >> Great, consumers can trust more. >> Exactly. >> It's not just fake news. What are some of the, I mean, this is such a cool concept. What are some of the biggest challenges in really launching it and making it a reality? What is keeping you up at night? >> I think some of it is actually just education and getting it out there. And understanding that this is a lot of stakeholders. So, from consumer brands all the way down to the smallholder providers. It's a lot of people to link up and a lot of organizations to talk to. So some of it is just getting through that process and getting people to understand. Also, actually, hopefully we'll get consumers to adopt. >> Yeah. >> And understand that this is something that they will want to do. >> Yeah, this whole integration, like Christine said, it is important, right? So you understand all the key stakeholders. It don't need to be all of them at the beginning, but at least the key stakeholders in a supply chain. And how you can create the business incentive model for them to be part of that. So it's a mapping exercise. We're getting there and that's where you gain adoption, and if you get the consumer side doing this as well, so it creates a network effect. And that's why we're trying to do it at Mastercard. It's in our DNA, like, build the networks, right. Everybody knows that. So we wanted to bring this to the ecosystem, to contribute that, okay, so how can I create a network effect that they can exponentially scale for their whole marketshare, for their whole marketplace. >> I want to ask you a personal question. You've been in technology for a really long time and now-- >> Not that old though. >> (laughing) No, no. You're just a babe. But in terms of of the kinds of projects you've worked on and the kinds of ways you're thinking about technology and then this particular project at a time where climate change is a monumental challenge and the fate of our planet really hangs in the balance with the decisions that we're making, policy makers and consumers are making today. I mean, what is it like to work on this kind of product? >> That's a great question. Yeah, well, for all of these years, I go to work with this business mentality, you know, you're going to make more money for someone else. You're going to work for big company. And see some friends and family doing things for the society, I say, "Oh my gosh, I should do something like that." And now I feel like I can do both. We're talking now as a business. It's a great solution, but it mixes so well for the, you know, for the whole society. It makes me feel really, everyday going to work and say, "Oh, this is what I want to do. "This is so cool." I mean, I'm helping, I'm benefiting myself 'cause I go to the supermarket, I'm going to be the one who's going to tip the farmer. I'm going to be the one who's going to check where my shrimp comes from, right? So I'm doing this for my family. My kids are, I hope they can live in a better planet that know exactly where the products come from. >> And the family that you have that's not even been born yet, so that's the other thing, too, helping future generations. >> That's amazing. We're doing things that, we never know. >> Yes, you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, Leandro. (all laughing) Thank you so much, Leandro and Christine, for coming on theCUBE. A really fun and fascinating conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage at the Accenture Executive Summit coming up after lunch. (upbeat music)

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019 brought to you by UI path. Hello. We've already welcome to Las Vegas. This is day two of the year. >>Path forward conference UI path forward three. So what UI Pat does is they named their events one two three last year we were at Miami in the year before was one. Their North American event, which was in New York city. Here is three at the Bellagio hotel in in Las Vegas. 3000 people here for this rocket ship company growing revenues, they've got over $300 million in annual recurring revenue. That's up from 25 million in 2017 so you're talking about greater than 12 X increase in annual recurring revenues over 3000 employees. Now, Daniel Dienes, the CEO just named the industries the tech industry's latest billionaire. He's now dressing like a billionaire last year. He's in a tee shirt this year. He looks more like a more like a CEO. So we're going to be interviewing him later on today, but let's get right into it. The keynotes today comprised God Kirkwood who gave some predictions and that's her. >>I'm going to go, I'm going to talk about his predictions. I'm going to make some comments on those predictions and give you some thoughts of my own. Maybe throw in a few predictions of from Dave Vellante and then Craig LeClaire from Forrester gave a keynote. He was on the QBs today. Very knowledgeable analysts, probably one of the industry's top analysts, and I'll make some comments on some of the things he said. So let me get right into it. You got Kirkwood when you do these predictions, you know I put 'em out there. Of course it is smart. He's going to do these things and make them somewhat self-serving for RPA and UI path. So I'll make some comments on that as first one. One those was, there'll be a global economic downturn. I can't remember if he actually pinned a date, but I think he said it's in paint pending. >>Let's let's say 2020 he said that's good for RPA. Why would that be good for RPA? Because if there's an economic downturn, people are gonna want to get more. For less, and they're going to want to automate. They're gonna want to spend money and get fast ROI. And RPA potentially is a way to do that. It's not necessarily good news for low wage workers. They're doing mundane tasks. But nonetheless, he made the statement that it's good for our RPA. I would say this, I think a lot of this is going to depend on 2020 and the election in the United States as to what happens. I think it's very unclear right now. You saw the democratic debates last night. It's very clear that there's a, there's a swing to the left. Elizabeth Warren is, is kind of appears to be the front runner. So I would, I would make this prediction. >>I actually think Trump was gonna win the election. You know, don't hate me for saying that all you Trump haters, but I think whatever happens, maybe, maybe doesn't win the election. Maybe he wins the election and then, and then the subsequent election goes to the Democrats. But I think there's going to be a major swing back to the left. And I think that what that's gonna do, it's gonna open up the checkbooks and put more pressure on debt and I don't think there's a real issue right now of too fast economic growth of inflation. It's obviously something that economists watch, but if interest rates start rising back to the Clinton era levels, that means big trouble for the economy. But I don't see that necessarily happening in 2020 I think 2020 we'll see some moderation. I definitely think we're seeing less tech spending expected for Q four and I think that'll spill into 2020 based on the ETR and enterprise technology research data that we see. >>But I think it's actually a healthy pullback. I kind of agree with guy on that front. I actually think it is good for RPA. I think RPA is one of those sectors that you see in the ETR surveys that is gaining share relative to other tech spending and I think that will continue in any downturn. So I expect softness. However you define downturn, I don't think it's going to be falling off the cliff or a disaster, but I definitely think spending will be more tepid. Second thing he said is RPA will become the YouTube for automations. Think of YouTube as a container. I am not going to spend a lot of time on this one. A YouTube and RPA. I think no one's a consumer, but his, his analogy was around a container for automations, just like YouTube was a container for for video. I think they have aspirations to scale like YouTube, but if you look at RPA is a right now a back office, B2B business function and I think it'll stay that way for a couple of years. >>I'll make some statements on that. Automations will move from snowflake to snowball. What does he mean by that? Well today automations are all unique. Every company, and he made this statement feels like it's automations are a snowflake there. Everyone is different and what he's predicting is that over time these automations will become, there'd be more commonality in those automations. I think that's true. I do think while there are definite business processes that are unique to companies that there are a lot of similarities. Things like the UI path marketplace will allow people to share automations and I think there will be much more commonality. I think it's critical for scale. Number four, he said students entering the workforce will force employers to use automation. He didn't give a timeframe on this, but I'll tell you one thing. At a 2020 I've got three kids in college with two kids in college, one that's recently, recently graduated, who does something. >>Most kids in college have no clue what robotic process automation is, let alone what the acronym RPA stands for. So this is going to take some time. asked a hundred college kids what RPA is and I bet you maybe one or two have heard of it, even know what it is. So that's not happening today. I think that'll take probably another two cycles of graduate's before that really hits. We heard from the college of William and Mary yesterday where Tom Clancy and the college have partnered to really push in RPA into the curriculum and I think that's great. I'm going to talk, Tom Clancy's, a expert in the area of training and education that's going to take some time to bake out. So I would put that again. Guy didn't give a timeframe, but I would, I would say that's, that's five to eight years away. Number five, we'll continue to be surprised by the intelligence of machines and the stupidity of humans. >>Well, what he meant by that was there are some things that humans do that are repetitive, that are mistakes. They make the same mistakes over and over and over again, and machines won't necessarily do that. I do think this, that the gap or the number of things, if you make a list between the number of things that humans can do versus what robots can do with a physical or software robots, that gap is closing. There's no question about it. It's, you know, short few years ago, robots couldn't even climb stairs and now they can and you're, you're seeing things like chatbots improving. There's still, you know, a lot of them are still crap frankly, but, but you're going to see a lot of money go into chatbots. And so I do think that that gap will, will close. And I think it's, it's gonna, it's gonna come down to education and creativity in terms of the impact on job loss. >>And I'll make some comments about that in a moment. The six prediction, there are seven overall, so bear with me here. Automation will be discussed in the United nations con and the context will be jobs, wages and global economics. That's already happened. It's already happening. People are concerned about the impact on productivity and, and so, you know, that's a lock. The last one was consolidation amongst RPA vendors and automation led services will accelerate. I totally agree with this. He mentioned work fusion and amp works as two companies that are gonna. We're going to where we're going to see consolidation. We've already seen it. SAP got bought Contexto so you see in the big whales come into this market in four talks a lot about RPA. Anytime there's a fast growing software segment like RPA and as a leader like UI path, would you other companies all you know on their tail automation anywhere and blue prism automation anywhere in UI path have a ton of dough. >>You're going to see the big software companies say, wait a minute, I need a piece of that pie. Because software companies generally feel like every dime that's spent on software should go to them. That's the mentality of an SAP or an Oracle or even IBM and so either, unquestionably, you're going to see some consolidation. You mentioned service providers as well. Companies like symphony. I've been making a lot of comparisons this week between what I see in the UI path ecosystem and what I saw way back in the early part of this decade in the service now ecosystem. You had a company with Fritz like cloud sharper, which nobody ever heard of. They were a service management ITSMs expert and Accenture eventually snapped them up and came in. You saw DXC or CSC at the time do the same thing. And so I think you'll see the same thing here in this ecosystem. >>This ecosystem here is happening. It's buzzing, but it's got to grow and, and you're already seeing Deloitte and cognizant and E Y and PWC. The big guys could have jump in here. I often say that SIS love to eat at the trough and they know where the money is and the money appears to be in RPA because really there's so many screwed up processes inside companies. RPA is actually can give them a quick ROI. Now let me turn to some of my thoughts on this. Let me talk about the job impact of automation the vendors would have. You believe that it's all good, that people love this and and when they bring in software robots, it makes their lives better because they're doing less money, less money, less of the mundane tasks, and they're able to focus on new, more strategic things to our customer that we've talked to here in the cube. >>And also privately. This is true, people do love your software. Robots. When we were Jean younger yesterday from security benefit. If you Civ most excited she's ever been, you know, having said that, Craig Le Claire's research shows that over the next 10 years we will see a 16% job loss of jobs will disappear, rolls will disappear, and by the way, foresters at the low end of the spectrum of that forecast. Most forecast say 30 40% of jobs are going to get disrupted. I tend to believe that Craig's number is probably a better one at the lower end of that spectrum, but that's still a huge number. You are going to see unquestionably job impact from automation. Absolutely. No question in my mind. I think you're already seeing it now. Look it. Humans have always been replaced by machines, but for the first time in history we're seeing Keith cognitive functions replacing humans and as going to have a big disruptive impact on the workforce. >>And the other piece of this I would predict we are going to see a productivity boost. I think a significant productivity boost. Let me share you some data with the Bureau of labor statistics, which you know, you may look at that, you know in question some of their methodologies, but over the longterm, I think it's a viable metric from 2007 to 2018 productivity grew at 1.3% that's an anemic rate from from 1947 to 2018 productivity grew at 2.1% so Oh seven to 18 half the longterm productivity gain, 2000 to 2007 2.7% and then from, and then what we saw in Q one of 19 3.4% uptick in productivity. Is that sustainable? I think it is. I think we're now entering a, a new phase of productivity growth and I think it's gonna be driven by things like RPA and other automation. So that is going to have an impact back to the earlier statements on job loss. >>Okay. The other thing is I want to talk about the forecast, the market. Last year at UI path two in Miami, I said that I thought that forecast was low. They had like $4 billion by 2020 and I sort of called out Craig LaClaire on that, you know, and so I said this could be 10 billion by 2020 now he clarified that today up on stage. I was including services in, in my prediction, correct. Declares follows this market much more closely than I do. So I'll defer to him on, on on that. But he put in the services number and he showed the services to license ratio of around, you know, three X or so. But he actually had this very serial number about 10 billion by 2020 so I felt, felt good about that. That kind of bat my back of napkin prediction. I used to do this stuff at IDC for a living. >>So you know, actually got a little knack for that on an analog basis. Then he showed sort of his, his forecast for the market, you know, growing at a very linear rate. Now I'll say this, I think hot markets like RPA, they generally don't grow at a, at a, at a linear steady rate. If you look at some of the emerging forecasts that I, you know, for instance, IDC had in my years there, we would always have these linear like smooth growth forecasts. You know, some of those big markets, you know, think, you know, early days of the PC, the, the, the, the internet flash storage, you know, things of that nature. They tend to, these disruptive technologies tend to grow in an curve or an S curve. So what you see is sort of this momentum building where the market is being seeded. Know Gardner has RPA now in the trough of disillusionment. >>So you're seeing some of this, okay, the little engine that could, and then what you see is this steep part of the S curve growing and then after it explodes and hits escape velocity, it's sort of stretches out into maturity. And I think that's what you're going to see with RPA. But some things have to happen before that happens. And one is specifically the RPA has to move from the back office to the front office. It has to move from only really dealing with pretty simple, mundane tasks to more complicated automations. It's got to be able to deal with unstructured data. It's gotta be able to handle on attended or rather attended bots where you're injecting humans into the equation and you're actually using machine learning and artificial intelligence to to learn and then identify other areas of automation and actually have systems of agency that can act. >>In other words, a bot will call another bot that actually can complete a transaction and so you're going to see a lot of money spent here. This is a big chasm. I think that RPA has to cross. We're going to talk to Daniel DNAs about this. He's a big ticker. He's a go big or go home guy, and so I think those things I would predict those things actually are going to happen because you're going to see so much effort and money and emphasis put into AI and for competitive advantage that I actually think that RPA can lead that and then again come back to the consolidation. I think you will see some consolidation. I think you're seeing UI path. Try to take the lead automation anywhere is kind of pressing the lead if you will. Both companies have raised a couple of billion dollars if you combine them and I think the way this market shakes out is any and you're going to have some of the big whales come in like SAP. >>I think the way this happened is you're going to see one or two specialists emerge. I think UI path is on its way there automation anywhere as well and and the number one player is going to make a lot of money. The number two players going to do two. OK the number three player is going to struggle and everybody else is kinda be either break even or they're going to bundle it in like SAP as part of their overall portfolio and compete on that basis. So I would predict that UI path will maintain its lead. I think its got the culture to do that. I think automation anywhere also could company is going to keep pressing that lead and those should are two companies you know that you need to watch me. Interesting to see. Blue prism, I think they are somewhat under capitalized. They went to the public markets. >>The spending data actually shows all three of these companies as well as some of the legacy companies like Pega systems actually gaining could have more share relative to other initiatives. So I think even some of these legacy companies are going to continue to chug along and actually do pretty well in the business. But, but the real darling, you know, I think it's going to be UI path. All the bankers are hovering around earlier on this week trying to get their business. They know there's an IPO coming at some point. Again, we'll ask Daniel Dienes about that today. You have it. That's my intro. Some of my predictions. Some a guy Kirkwood's predictions. Wall-to-wall coverage on the cube today, day two at UI path forward three from Las Vegas. We'll be right back right after this short break.

>> Live from San Diego, California, it's the Cube. Covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, welcome back to Cisco Live from sunny San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante and David are joined by a couple of guests from DXC. To my right we've got Jake Sager, principal client executive TMT, Tech Media Telecom. Jake, great to have you on the program. >> Thank you. >> Now we're broadcasting from the sun. And Randy Redman, the director of security services Product Management. Randy welcome. >> Thank you very much. Glad to be here. >> So we're in the definite zone. You can imagine all of the exciting conversations going on behind us here. Guys, I just noticed that DXC, guys have been around for a couple of years IT services company with 25 billion in annual revenue, but you guys were just named, I think it's this morning, number three on CLUS 2019 solution provider list up from number 10 last year. Pretty good momentum. Jake, we'll start with you. What do you see in feed on the street, in the market with respect to digital transformation, what are customers pains and how is the DXC helping knock him out of the park? >> Well, I think you know, DXC has a long legacy history over 60 years of business together from CSC, EDS, and obviously HP heritage. So we've kind of seen it all and seen the business transform from a highly on the ground business to now a lot of things in the cloud. With that obviously customers are looking to do business in different ways. There's a lot of digital disruptors out there. So they're looking to find the new solution that's going to shade off the competition, kind of skirt it, find the newest best thing before they can and find customer driven solutions rather than just cost driven solutions and other things like that. >> So when you say customer driven solution, let's dig into that a little bit more. What does that mean? And how is it actually, how does it manifest? >> Well, I think the customer can be a lot of different things to a lot of different people. In retail, it can be somebody walking into your store and banking, it can be somebody using an app. But what does that end consumer want? What's going to make their life easier and make them go to you versus another company? And that's really what companies need to be looking at. There's no one answer to anything. But it's a lot of thought-lead leadership to try to come up with something brand new, that is not going to be disrupted by the next Airbnb or Uber. >> So you are a CEO, Michael, talks a lot about digital transformation. >> Right. >> Right here in the security side of things. So we going to dig into that a little bit. But in terms of the evolution of digital transformation, generally and specifically, how people are rethinking security as a result, because we often say, what's the difference between a business and a digital business? Well, it's how they use data. Okay, well and that opens up a whole can of worms on security. So what are you seeing in terms of the evolution of the so called digital transformation, but specifically how it's affecting their posture towards security? >> Yeah, absolutely, because in a digital environment, customers are completely rethinking both how their infrastructure is deployed and how their applications are deployed. And so really, it's opening up whole new avenues for security threats to enter their environments. At the same time, there are so many individual security technologies and customers are really struggling with what are the right technology choices to make and then more importantly how to operate them effectively, how to implement appropriate security policies, how to actually monitor effectively for threats across the environment. So digital transformation is changing their business environment, but it's really completely opening up the sphere on the security side of the house. >> So Jake, we were talking and I had asked you what your favorite topics are, you said, smart city, IoT and connected cars. Sounds like a security nightmare. >> Yeah. >> But it's an opportunity as well for you guys. >> Absolutely. >> So you go in, what's the customer conversation like? I mean, pick one or all three, if you can generalize, in terms of I mean, these are all new things, right? It's the Wild West right now. What's customers mindset? Like you said, they don't want to get disrupted. They're looking at new opportunities. What are they looking at? How are you guys helping them? >> Well, it depends industry by industry. You know, when it comes to healthcare, we can help with remote telemedicine, operating medical equipment remotely. But again, that's going to bring in a whole bunch of new security threats, which Randy is going to be more than equipped to talk about. But I think securing that is really a big problem. When you start talking about massive IoT, you're talking about thousands and thousands of sensors out there in a smart city or oil mining gas utility, like they were talking about earlier today. You're talking about tons of different entry points, lots of different vulnerabilities. So that's definitely a huge issue for them. It's also a ton of new data that they don't know how to manage, that they don't know how to make sense out of, through artificial intelligence or other means. So for a company like us that really has strength in security, artificial intelligence, machine learning, as well as a strong background of data center, data lake management, helping them kind of figure out what data to use and how to use it most effectively. That's really where we shine. Cause we're not necessarily the company providing the hardware. We're not the company writing the software. But we're really the glue that integrates it all together, and brings all those multi solutions together. 'Cause in IoT, it's an ecosystem. It's not solution in a box. >> Let's dig into the Smart City concept. It's so fascinating. I've read up on the Las Vegas city of Las Vegas, which is been on the Cube. Done a lot to really transform that city. But to your point take about data, I think Chuck Robbins said this morning in the keynote that organizations are only really getting insight from less than 1% of their data. >> Right. >> It must be one of those where do we start? >> Right. >> So you are talking about working with municipalities on becoming smart cities and being able to apply some of your expertise and AI. Where do you start that conversation? >> Well, I mean, the terms over abused, I think data is a new oil, right? So if you don't know which data you're getting it from and you're only getting 10%, you're not doing a very good job as an oil producer, right? So our company is very good at identifying where the data is. 'Cause a lot of times, that's half the problem, is finding where that data resides, getting it into a place where you can actually ingest it, and then actually analyze it and get something useful out of it. Companies typically don't know where all their data is, they don't know how to analyze it and they definitely don't know how to turn it into something useful. So that's something DXC does across the board. >> What about the partnership with Cisco? So Cisco, obviously, it's got the networks, it's got, you know, packets flying around. It's got to secure those. What's the partnership like? Are you leveraging their products? I'm sure you are. You guys use everybody's products. >> Right. >> What's the partnership like? And what specifically are you doing in the security area Randy? >> Yeah, so in terms of the partnership with Cisco, we're certainly looking in several areas frankly, because right, we're looking with our clients at a solution letter approach, right. And that's one of the things that we like with Cisco is the broad portfolio meshes with our broad portfolio. So certainly key areas of focus for us right now are in the Unified Communication space and how we're helping with collaboration for our clients, but also in the security area, technologies, such as Cisco stealth watch, which is helping provide more visibility to what's happening in networks today. Because more and more our view is that security as we were just talking about, even in the IoT space becomes more of an analytics exercise. It's less about really being able to detect what you already know, it's really about being able to drive detection from the unknown. And so the more data that we can get, the more visibility into network environments the better. >> How do you work with Cisco? 25% of Cisco's revenue is they called services. So, where do they leave off? I mean they're a product company. You guys are a services firm, but they have services. >> Right. >> How do you interact with them? You don't compete, I presume. At least there's maybe some overlap. But, where do they leave off and you guys pick up? >> Yeah, so certainly, we're not competing with Cisco from a services perspective. We're certainly relying on Cisco services for hardware and professional support around their technology. We're really there to provide overall solution design, architecture installation and we'll leverage Cisco professional services where that's appropriate. And then we provide managed services on the back end as well. >> So you're saying their role is to make sure it's architected properly and it's working, in the way it's promised. Your role is to say it my way and you can correct me is help the customer figure out how to apply those technologies to create business value. >> Well, exactly and also typically in a client solution. Cisco maybe one of several technologies that are involved in a broader solutions-- >> you got to make it all work together tomorrow-- >> And part of our role is to act as that integrator to bring the core Cisco elements with the DXC services and-- >> So your jobs getting harder and harder and harder. >> Fully it is. It's a security perspective. >> Dave: As a consumer things are getting easier, right? Oh, yeah, Google, Facebook, Instagram is so easy. But the back end with, you know, cloud and DevOps, the pace of change. How have you seen that affect your business? How are you dealing with that rapid change? >> Yeah, so I think that from a couple of perspectives here. One is that it's changing how we go about the process in terms of developing services and capabilities for our clients. Just as Agile has taken over actually in the application space, It's really driving how we think about actually developing offerings now around getting technology out into the market more quickly, evolving and growing capability from there. And so really, it's all about how we get proof of value for our clients quickly by getting technology into their hands as quickly as possible. >> Lisa: So let's talk about some of these waves of innovation Cisco was talking about this morning. Talking about this explosion of 5G, Wi-Fi 6 being able to have this access that works really well indoors outdoors, how that's changing even Jake you know, consumer demand. What opportunities, and Jake I'll start with you, what opportunities and some of the things that Cisco was talking about with respect to connectivity, AI with GPUs being everywhere, edge mobile, architectures becoming so a Morpheus opportunity for DXC to help customers really not just integrate the technologies but to excel and accelerate themselves to define new services, new business models. What's your differentiation point there? >> I mean, our main differentiation point from DXC is agnostic to the technology. We really specialize in being vendor agnostic, finding the best of breed companies out there and integrating it into our portfolio and offering it to our clients. If our client wants Azure, we're not going to try to sell them on Google Cloud. If they want one or the other, we're going to be hand in hand with the customer either way. With these new technologies that come around, it's just going to open the doors for so many new types of business, so many more disruptive businesses. No matter what comes along our goal is to have that portfolio in hand, which Cisco rounds out to be able to offer to our over 6000 enterprise clients. So we need to be able to manage every shape, size, variety, industry, anything you can think of. >> What's the trend? Is the trend, yeah, we want as you say, okay, we'll make it make it work for you or is the trend like, you guys figure it out. We're not sure what the right fit is. How much of that is going on? >> I'd say you probably see 50 50. (Jake laughs) >> I think we're seeing a lot of that. Certainly as clients are migrating applications to the cloud. They may be starting with a particular cloud platform, but clients are really frankly fairly agnostic in terms of the cloud platform they're migrating to. They're taking advantage of more and more SAS applications. So one of the trends that we're definitely seeing is how to address client security concerns in a hybrid cloud environment because that's more and more what we expect the future to be, even if clients are focusing on a particular cloud platform as their starting point today. >> So as data is traversing the network and one of the one of the things that I heard this morning from Chuck Robbins keynote was that the common denominator as all of these changes and waves in innovation are coming is the network. Data is traversing the network. Given that is a given and there's only going to be more and more data and more connected devices, more mobile data traffic. Randy question for you. How can DXC, how can you help customers leverage your expertise and say security and AI, as you mentioned, to extract more value from their data and allow them to become far more secure as the it's no longer acceptable, you can't just simply put a firewall around a perimeter that has so many a Morpheus points? >> Yeah and absolutely. And as we mentioned, with all of the data that's available today, it really becomes more of an analytics problem. And one of the investments that the DXC is making is specifically in our security platform that allows us to ingest data from pretty much any infrastructure data source and be able to leverage capabilities to provide analytics, machine learning and automation on top of that, to help clients leverage the power of the data and specifically from a security perspective, not just drive detection, because that's interesting. The question I get from clients is well now, what do I do about it? >> Right. >> And we're leveraging investment, our platform automation is actually to begin to take automated actions on behalf of our clients in order to solve security problems. >> Excellent, guys. Well, thank you so much, Jake, and Randy for stopping by the Cube and talking with Dave and me about what you guys are doing at DXC. The next time we'll have to talk about connected cars. >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> Alright. For Dave Vellante I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the Cube live from Cisco Live in sunny San Diego. Thanks for watching. (techy music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Vegas! Lisa Martin with John Furrier. You're watching us on theCUBE live. The end of Day One of our three days of coverage of Dell Technologies World. Can you hear the music? The party's already getting started. We have more content to bring you. Please welcome a couple of guests from DXE Technology, Kevin Johnston, Chief Sales and Revenue Officer, Cloud and Platform Service. Kevin, it's great to have you. >> Thank you very much. Glad to be here. >> Our pleasure. We've got Graham Stringer, Managing Director of Workplace and Mobility for DXE Americas. >> Thank you. Good to be here as well. >> Yeah, you waited just in time for the concert, guys! >> We did. >> Just in time. Here we go. >> All right, so, Kevin, let's go ahead and start with you. Give our audience and understanding of DXE. What you guys do, who you are, all that good stuff. >> Yeah, okay. That's great. So DXE was formed two years ago as a result of the merger of legacy HP Enterprise Services Business and CSC. DXE was formed really for the purpose of helping our large enterprise clients accelerate their digital transformation. So we're about a $22 billion IT services company, really aligned with our partners helping our clients transform digitally. >> And you guys were on the cloud early, too. There's a lot of devops going on. >> Yep. >> You guys had your hands in all the clouds. >> We have. >> What's your take on, here at Dell Technologies World, Microsoft's partnering with VMware? >> Yeah, so we would share a lot of beliefs with Dell Technology and VMware in particular, in that multi-cloud is a real thing. And we see multi-cloud, especially for the large enterprise clients, really being an answer for quite some number of years to come. We also believe that a large percentage of application portfolios will migrate to cloud. Whether it's private clouds or public clouds, and that there's a lot of work to be done to transform those applications to really take advantage of cloud native features. >> So last year's theme of Dell Technologies World was Make It Real, 'It' being digital transformation, security transformation, IT transformation, and workforce workplace automation. Graham, I'd love to get your perspectives on workplace mobility and some of the things that were announced this morning with Unified Workspace, Workspace ONE, and recognizing, hey, for our customers to transform digitally successfully, we've got to make sure that their are people are successful, and their people are highly distributed. What are some of the things that you heard this morning that are exciting, aligning with some of the trends that you're seeing in the workplace? >> Well the big trend that we're seeing is the role that HR is now playing in digital transformation of the workplace. If you go back two, three, four years, it was very IT centric. Conversations were predominantly with the CIO. We're now seeing 30, 40% of organizations or more engaging at the HR level. We did a recent project with one of the big retailers in the industry and right out of the bat, this chief HR officer was engaged right from the get-go. They want to know that their employees are going to experience work very differently. So that's one of the big trends we're seeing emerging. >> When did this shift happen? When was this going on? Past year, two years? Because this is a shift. >> I would say the shift has definitely happened the last couple of years. Millennials are having a huge impact. You're getting quite the cross-pollination of a lot of different generations. Millennials are now having an enormous impact. If you look at outlets like Glassdoor, millennials want to know when they go to an organization can I bring my own device? Am I going to have a great workplace experience? And you can't stick with a very traditional, legacy way of delivering IT where everything was shift left and you got to a point where everybody hated each other. >> That's a problem for productivity. >> Yes, a very big problem for productivity, absolutely. >> Talk about some of the challenges that customers have overcome with digital transformation, as it starts to become less of a buzz word and actually more of a reality and strategic imperative that has some visibility at the unit economics and value. >> Yeah, I think every large enterprise client we talk to has a digital transformation agenda of some sort and at some varying place along the path to trying to adopt a new business model or adapt to a different business process, so the challenges that we see with these clients in general is how do we scale? So I have legacy IT that won't disappear overnight and I have all the possibilities of digitally enabling or bringing new digital technologies that enable these processes or models. So this is a challenge: how to enable digital at scale where traditional and digital have to live together for some period of time. >> And it's not just a tech challenge, it's culture, too. How far has tech come because you've mentioned containers with legacy? That has been a great message to IT is I can put a container around it and hold onto it for a little while longer, I don't have to kill it, and make the changes to cloud-native. >> For the tech guys, there's been a lot of fun things and containers probably is the bridge for legacy apps into cloud for sure. For the rest of the folks, for the normal people, the way work gets done and the way to rethink how to do work in the mix of IT or technology into business is just different. >> Graham's point is beautiful because the expectation of the employee or the worker whether they're in the firm or outside the firm, outside in or inside out, however they look at it, is the new experience they want. So the expectations are changing. What's the biggest thing, we saw some stats on stage about remote working, three places, two places, I mean, hell, I'm always on the road. What is some of the expectations that you're seeing? Obviously millennials and some of the older folks. >> They want to see IT delivered in the way they want to receive it. That's one of the biggest trends we're seeing. So for Millennials, my son's kind of in that age category, right, they love to text. To pick up a phone for a younger generation is a little bit foreign. You go and deal with baby boomers, they want to be dealt with in a much different manner. So you've got that whole change, and then you've got the whole notion now of work is changing; where do I work, the ability to basically work 24/7, wherever I want, however I want, using whatever device that I want. And that of course is now creating a whole new set of challenges for IT, particularly around security. >> But employee experience is absolutely fundamental to a business' success; their ability to delight costumers, their ability to deliver outcome, so it's really pretty core. Talk to us about those conversations that you're having with customers. Are they understanding how significant that employee experience is to bottom line business outcomes differentiation? >> Very much so. We're working right now with a large manufacturing firm and they're doing not just an inside out, but outside in, so they're actually coming to watch. It's part of a workplace strategy to look at it from the outside as well. In other words, how can our client take innovation to their suppliers, their customers, to demonstrate that they understand it? So that's extremely exciting when we see that they're not just focused on their own employees and the experience germane to them. >> One thing I might add is that maybe less so from a user experience per say, but the individuals as an employee. So the shift to digital and the skill shift that's required to go with that is really probably the most monumental change that all of us technology companies and the business part of our large enterprise clients is dealing with. Whether it's a skills gap or whether it's a culture gap, this idea of just simply waterfall to agile and the way to think about that or silo versus end-to-end as just simple ways to think differently about how to go faster. So the experience, how you recruit, whose going to make it, who can be trained, and then where you need to be able to source the new talent from as well. >> I totally agree with you. We do hundreds of shows a year, this is our tenth year doing theCUBE, that is the number one things that we hear over and over again from practitioners and customers and from people working. It's not the check, you can always get a check solution, it's the cultural and the skills gap. Both are huge problems. >> And this is part of the digital at scale point. So we'll hire something in the neighborhood of six to eight thousand digital skills people. We're just about to close on active position of Luxoft, an agile devops digital company. We'll bring another 13,000 in. But if you think about the normal large enterprise and what you need to do to be able to have the university networks and to be able to really source that scale in order to effect the transformations that business need to make to stay competitive. >> And the other point, the engagements have changed too. I'm sure you guys have seen your end but every IT or CIO we talk to says, "I outsourced everything decades ago and now I've got a couple guys running the show. Now I need to have a hundred x more people coding and building core competency." That's still going to need to engage people in the channel or our service providers but they need to build core talent in house. It's swinging back and they don't know what to do. (laughter) Is that why they call you guys? Is that how you guys get involved? >> We'll help train. We'll help clients think through what does an IT or business organization need to look like profile wise, skill wise, operating model wise, and in many cases it's I have my digital model but I still have my traditional model that needs to coexist with it and then here's where the opportunities are for people to develop career paths and progress. >> Kevin, talk about the sweet spot of your engagements that you're doing right now. Where's the heart of your business? Is it someone whose really hurting, needs an aspirin, they've got a headache, is it a problem? Is it an opportunity? Is it a growth issue? Where do you see the spectrum of your engagements? >> We kind of find clients in one of three spots normally. "Hey, I know I need to do something but I'm not sure what it is, can you help me figure out to get started?" So more design thinking, problem solving. We have other clients at the other end of the spectrum who are, "Hey, I've got this figured out. I need a partner to help me execute it's scale. And I know the model that I want to do, I know the business reason for doing it." And then we have a lot of folks that are in the middle, which is, "I've started, I've got a few hundred AWS accounts. I got private clouds sitting idle. Someone help me." Or, "I've got security issues, compliance issues." >> So they're in the middle of the journey and they just need a little reboot or a kickstart. >> They need help scaling. >> They ran out of gas. (laughter) >> And how are you working with Dell Technologies and their companies, Dell EMC, if they were to do that? >> The partnership with Dell Technologies, VMware, are really center to how we go to market. DXE is one of the top few partners largest in the ecosystem. The breadth of our portfolios are extremely complementary, whether it's things like device as a service or multi- and hybrid cloud, or pivotal and devops. So the breadth of the portfolios max up really well which makes it the impact potential for our clients even more important. Dell Technology broadly is really one of the few partners that we're shoulder-to-shoulder going with to the market as well. >> Awesome. Great stuff. What's the biggest learnings you guys can share with the audience that you gathered over your multiple engagements holistically across your client base? That's learnings, that could be a best practice, or just either some scar tissue or revelations or epiphanies. Share some experience here. >> I think one of the big learnings we're seeing is the shift now to very much business outcome driven decision making. If you go back to your point about the big ITO outsourcing days, that was all about just strictly driving cost out, and that's why you got to that point where everybody was left hating each other. Now it's about business outcomes. You've got the impact of Millennials, you've got organizations wanting to create a new and better experience for the employees and they're coming to us to say, "How do we accomplish that?" We've got an organization we're working with right now, they're trying to elevate themselves to be one of the top 50 best places to work for in the US. How do they arrive at that? For them, that's their barometer and so it's not about driving costs out, it's really achieving that overall experience and enhance a business outcome. >> So they're betting on productivity gains from morale and happy workers. >> Right. And also they're recognizing the downstream impact on their customers, productivity, the level of employee engagement, right? I mean those are the things that the organization knows that if they hit on those, I mean the sky's the limit. >> Right. Anything on your end? Learnings? >> Yeah, I would say the "don't understand the talent" challenge. The ability to pivot from here's the way we all know and are familiar with doing things to the new way. There will be a big talent challenge. The other thing is the operating model from an IT standpoint. Traditional IT operating model operates at a particular speed, cloud operates at a different speed. And the tools, the talents, the skills that go with that are just completely different. And then I think the last thing is just it seems maybe surprising, but compliance at scale and at speed. So security and regulatory compliance, we see that falling over all the time. >> Great practice you guys. I've been following you guys for many years, you've got a great organization, lots of smart people there we've interviewed many times. My final question is a tech question: what technologies do you guys like that you think is ready for prime time or almost ready for prime time worth having customer keep focusing on and which one's a little more over hyped and out of reach at the moment? >> I'll take a stab at that. If you look at today's Wall Street Journal, Deloitte talks to I believe the figure they quoted was roughly 25% of organizations are doing AI in some form already, PoC or at least are committing to it in terms of strategy. We're seeing that inside DXE as well. AI is now being incorporated into our workplace offerings. The potential for that is enormous, it's real. The technology in the last couple of years, particularly with cloud computing, has really enabled it. When you look at platforms like Watson, these are capabilities that just weren't there 10, 12, 15 years ago, and now the impact that it can have on the workplace, help lines, chats, chatbots, and so forth, is enormous and it's real. Five, 10 years ago it definitely was not in it's maturity. >> Okay, over hyped. >> What's over hyped? I don't know, what comes to mind for you? >> Or maybe I'll rephrase it differently: not yet ready for prime time, but looks good on the fairway but not yet known. . . >> I think for me through workplace, IoT has still got a ways to go. AI and analytics is definitely there. IoT I would say is a little bit behind. I'm sure that Kevin has cloud and platform thoughts. >> Yeah, I would say from an over hyped standpoint, we've seen a lot of companies, large enterprises, legacy application portfolios think they're going to refactor all their applications and cloud native everything. So it feels that people are now kind of getting past that point, but we still see that idea a lot. I think the opportunity that is really in front of us, and you kind of called out, containers. Legacy applications into cloud feel like a remaining frontier for the large enterprise. We think containers and the idea of autonomous, continue optimization, financial performance, is a way to make apps run in cloud financially and performance wise in a way that we don't see a lot of companies fully solving for that yet. >> Awesome. >> A lot of work to do, a lot of opportunity. Kevin, Graham, thank you so much for sharing some of your time and thoughts and insights with John and me on theCUBE this afternoon. >> Very good. >> Thank you. >> We appreciate it. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, and you've been watching theCUBE live from Vegas. Day One of our coverage of Dell Technologies World is now in the books. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

Okay, this presentation includes forward looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially as a result of various risk factors including those described in the 10 k's 10 q's and eight ks. Vm ware files with the SEC, ladies and gentlemen, Sunjay Buddha for the jazz mafia from Oakland, California. Good to be with you. Welcome to late night with Jimmy Fallon. I'm an early early morning with Sanjay Poonen and two are set. It's the first time we're doing a live band and jazz and blues is my favorite. You know, I prefer a career in music, playing with Eric Clapton and that abandoned software, but you know, life as a different way. I'll things. I'm delighted to have you all here. Wasn't yesterday's keynote. Just awesome. Off the charts. I mean pat and Ray, you just guys, I thought it was the best ever keynote and I'm not kissing up to the two of you. If you know pat, you can't kiss up to them because if you do, you'll get an action item list at 4:30 in the morning that sten long and you'll be having nails for breakfast with him but bad it was delightful and I was so inspired by your tattoo that I decided to Kinda fell asleep in batter ass tattoo parlor and I thought one wasn't enough so I was gonna one up with. I love Vm ware. Twenty years. Can you see that? What do you guys think? But thank you all of you for being here. It's a delight to have you folks at our conference. Twenty 5,000 of you here, 100,000 watching. Thank you to all of the vm ware employees who helped put this together. Robin Matlock, Linda, Brit, Clara. Can I have you guys stand up and just acknowledge those of you who are involved? Thank you for being involved. Linda. These ladies worked so hard to make this a great show. Everybody on their teams. It's the life to have you all here. I know that we're gonna have a fantastic time. The title of my talk is pioneers of the possible and we're going to go through over the course of the next 90 minutes or so, a conversation with customers, give you a little bit of perspective of why some of these folks are pioneers and then we're going to talk about somebody who's been a pioneer in the world but thought to start off with a story. I love stories and I was born in a family with four boys and my parents I grew up in India were immensely creative and naming that for boys. The eldest was named Sanjay. That's me. The next was named Santosh Sunday, so if you can get the drift here, it's s a n, s a n s a n and the final one. My parents got even more creative and colon suneel sun, so you could imagine my mother going south or Sunday do. I meant Sanjay you and it was always that confusion and then I come to the United States as an immigrant at age 18 and people see my name and most Americans hadn't seen many Sundays before, so they call me Sanjay. I mean, of course it of sounds like v San, so sanjay, so for all of your V, San Lovers. Then I come to California for years later work at apple and my Latino friends see my name and it sorta sounds like San Jose, so I get called sand. Hey, okay. Then I meet some Norwegian friends later on in my life, nordics. The J is a y, so I get called San Year. Your my Italian friend calls me son Joe. So the point of the matter is, whatever you call me, I respond, but there's certain things that are core to my DNA. Those that people know me know that whatever you call me, there's something that's core to me. Maybe I like music more than software. Maybe I want my tombstone to not be with. I was smart or stupid that I had a big heart. It's the same with vm ware. When you think about the engines that fuel us, you can call us the VM company. The virtualization company. Server virtualization. We seek to be now called the digital foundation company. Sometimes our competitors are not so kind to us. They call us the other things. That's okay. There's something that's core to this company that really, really stands out. They're sort of the engines that fuel vm ware, so like a plane with two engines, innovation and customer obsession. Innovation is what allows the engine to go faster, farther and constantly look at ways in which you can actually make the better and better customer obsession allows you to do it in concert with customers and my message to all of you here is that we want to both of those together with you. Imagine if 500,000 customers could see the benefit of vsphere San Nsx all above cloud foundation being your products. We've been very fortunate and blessed to innovate in everything starting with Sova virtualization, starting with software defined storage in 2009. We were a little later to kind of really on the hyperconverged infrastructure, but the first things that we innovate in storage, we're way back in 2009 when we acquired nicer and began the early works in software defined networking in 2012 when we put together desktop virtualization, mobile and identity the first time to form the digital workspace and as you heard in the last few days, the vision of a multi cloud or hybrid cloud in a virtual cloud networking. This is an amazing vision couple that innovation with an obsession and customer obsession and an NPS. Every engineer and sales rep and everybody in between is compensated on NPS. If something is not going well, you can send me an email. I know you can send pat an email. You can send the good emails to me and the bad emails to Scott Dot Beto said Bmr.com. No, I'm kidding. We want all of you to feel like you're plugged into us and we're very fortunate. This is your vote on nps. We've been very blessed to have the highest nps and that is our focus, but innovation done with customers. I shared this chart last year and it's sort of our sesame street simple chart. I tell our sales rep, this is probably the one shot that gets used the most by our sales organization. If you can't describe our story in one shot, you have 100 powerpoints, you probably have no power and very The fact of the matter is that the data center is sort of like a human body. little point. You've got your heart that's Compute, you've got the storage, maybe your lungs, you've got the nervous system that's networking and you've got the brains of management and what we're trying to do is help you make that journey to the cloud. That's the bottom part of the story. We call it the cloud foundation, the top part, and it's all serving apps. The top part of that story is the digital workspace, so very simply put that that's the desktop, moving edge and mobile. The digital workspace meets the cloud foundation. The combination is a digital foundation Where does, and we've begun this revolution with a company. That's what we end. focus on impact, not just make an impression making an impact, and there's three c's that all of us collectively have had an impact on cost very clearly. I'm going to walk you through some of that complexity and carbon and the carbon data was just fascinating to see some of that yesterday, uh, from Pat, these fierce guarded off this revolution when we started this off 20 years ago. These were stories I just picked up some of the period people would send us electricity bills of what it looked like before and after vsphere with a dramatic reduction in cost, uh, off the tune of 80 plus percent people would show us 10, sometimes 20 times a value creation from server consolidation ratios. I think of the story goes right. Intel initially sort of fought vm ware. I didn't want to have it happen. Dell was one of the first investors. Pat Michael, do I have that story? Right? Good. It's always a job fulfilling through agree with my boss and my chairman as opposed to disagree with them. Um, so that's how it got started. And true with over the, this has been an incredible story. This is kind of the revenue that you've helped us with over the 20 years of existence. Last year was about a billion but I pulled up one of the Roi Charts that somebody wrote in 2006. collectively over a year, $50 million, It might've been my esteemed colleague, Greg rug around that showed that every dollar spent on vm ware resulted in nine to $26 worth of economic value. This was in 2006. So I just said, let's say it's about 10 x of economic value, um, to you. And I think over the years it may have been bigger, but let's say conservative. It's then that $50 million has resulted in half a trillion worth of value to you if you were willing to be more generous and 20. It's 1 trillion worth of value over the that was the heart. years. Our second core product, This is one of my favorite products. How can you not like a product that has part of your name and it. We sent incredible. But the Roi here is incredible too. It's mostly coming from cap ex and op ex reduction, but mostly cap x. initially there was a little bit of tension between us and the hardware storage players. Now I think every hardware storage layer begins their presentation on hyperconverged infrastructure as the pathway to the private cloud. Dramatic reduction. We would like this 15,000 customers have we send. We want every one of the 500,000 customers. If you're going to invest in a private cloud to begin your journey with, with a a hyperconverged infrastructure v sound and sometimes we don't always get this right. This store products actually sort of the story of the of the movie seabiscuit where we sort of came from behind and vm ware sometimes does well. We've come from behind and now we're number one in this category. Incredible Roi. NSX, little not so obvious because there's a fair amount spent on hardware and the trucks would. It looks like this mostly, and this is on the lefthand side, a opex mostly driven by a little bit of server virtualization and a network driven architecture. What we're doing is not coming here saying you need to rip out your existing hardware, whether it's Cisco, juniper, Arista, you get more value out of that or more value potentially out of your Palo Alto or load balancing capabilities, but what we're saying is you can extend the life, optimize your underlay and invest more in your overlay and we're going to start doing more and software all the way from the l for the elephant seven stack firewalling application controllers and make that in networking stack, application aware, and we can dramatically help you reduce that. At the core of that is an investment hyperconverged infrastructure. We find often investments like v San could trigger the investments. In nsx we have roi tools that will help you make that even more dramatic, so once you've got compute storage and networking, you put it together. Then with a lot of other components, we're just getting started in this journey with Nsx, one of our top priorities, but you put that now with the brain. Okay, you got the heart, the lungs, the nervous system, and the brain where you do three a's, sort of like those three c's. You've got automation, you've got analytics and monitoring and of course the part that you saw yesterday, ai and all of the incredible capabilities that you have here. When you put that now in a place where you've got the full SDDC stack, you have a variety of deployment options. Number one is deploying it. A traditional hardware driven type of on premise environment. Okay, and here's the cost we we we accumulate over 2,500 pms. All you could deploy this in a private cloud with a software defined data center with the components I've talked about and the additional cost also for cloud bursting Dr because you're usually investing that sometimes your own data centers or you have the choice of now building an redoing some of those apps for public cloud this, but in many cases you're going to have to add on a cost for migration and refactoring those apps. So it is technically a little more expensive when you factor in that cost on any of the hyperscalers. We think the most economically attractive is this hybrid cloud option, like Vm ware cloud and where you have, for example, all of that Dr Capabilities built into it so that in essence folks is the core of that story. And what I've tried to show you over the last few minutes is the economic value can be extremely compelling. We think at least 10 to 20 x in terms of how we can generate value with them. So rather than me speak more than words, I'd like to welcome my first panel. Please join me in welcoming on stage. Are Our guests from brinks from sky and from National Commercial Bank of Jamaica. Gentlemen, join me on stage. Well, gentlemen, we've got a Indian American. We've got a kiwi who now lives in the UK and we've got a Jamaican. Maybe we should talk about cricket, which by the way is a very exciting sport. It lasts only five days, but nonetheless, I want to start with you Rohan. You, um, brings is an incredible story. Everyone knows the armored trucks and security. Have you driven in one of those? Have a great story and the stock price has doubled. You're a cio that brings business and it together. Maybe we can start there. How have you effectively being able to do that in bridging business and it. Thank you Sanjay. So let me start by describing who is the business, right? Who is brinks? Brinks is the number one secure logistics and cash management services company in the world. Our job is to protect our customers, most precious assets, their cash, precious metals, diamonds, jewelry, commodities and so on. You've seen our trucks in your neighborhoods, in your cities, even in countries across the world, right? But the world is going digital and so we have to ratchet up our use of digital technologies and tools in order to continue to serve our customers in a digital world. So we're building a digital network that extends all the way out to the edges and our edges. Our branches are our messengers and their handheld devices, our trucks and even our computer control safes that we place on our customer's premises all the way back to our monitoring centers are processing centers in our data centers so that we can receive events that are taking place in that cash ecosystem around our customers and react and be proactive in our service of them and at the heart of this digital business transformation is the vm ware product suite. We have been able to use the products to successfully architect of hybrid cloud data center in North America. Awesome. I'd like to get to your next, but before I do that, you made a tremendous sacrifice to be here because you just had a two month old baby. How is your sleep getting there? I've been there with twins and we have a nice little gift for you for you here. Why don't you open it and show everybody some side that something. I think your two month old will like once you get to the bottom of all that day. I've. I'm sure something's in there. Oh Geez. That's the better one. Open it up. There's a Vm, wear a little outfit for your two month. Alright guys, this is great. Thank you all. We appreciate your being here and making the sacrifice in the midst of that. But I was amazed listening to you. I mean, we think of Jamaica, it's a vacation spot. It's also an incredible place with athletes and Usain bolt, but when you, the not just the biggest bank in Jamaica, but also one of the innovators and picking areas like containers and so on. How did you build an innovation culture in the bank? Well, I think, uh, to what rughead said the world is going to dissolve and NCB. We have an aspiration to become the Caribbean's first digital bank. And what that meant for us is two things. One is to reinvent or core business processes and to, to ensure that our customers, when they interact with the bank across all channels have a, what we call the Amazon experience and to drive that, what we actually had to do was to work in two moons. Uh, the first movement we call mode one is And no two, which is stunning up a whole set of to keep the lights on, keep the bank running. agile labs to ensure that we could innovate and transform and grow our business. And the heart of that was on the [inaudible] platform. So pks rocks. You guys should try it. We're going to talk about. I'm sure that won't be the last hear from chatting, but uh, that's great. Hey, now I'd like to get a little deeper into the product with all of you folks and just understand how you've engineered that, that transformation. Maybe in sort of the order we covered in my earlier comments in speech. Rohan, you basically began the journey with the private cloud optimization going with, of course vsphere v San and the VX rail environment to optimize your private cloud. And then of course we'll get to the public cloud later. But how did that work out for you and why did you pick v San and how's it gone? So Sunday we started down this journey, the fourth quarter of 2016. And if you remember back then the BMC product was not yet a product, but we still had the vision even back then of bridging from a private data center into a public cloud. So we started with v San because it helped us tackle an important component of our data center stack. Right. And we could get on a common platform, common set of processes and tools so that when we were ready for the full stack, vmc would be there and it was, and then we could extend past that. So. Awesome. And, and I say Dave with a name like Dave Matthews, you must have like all these musicians, like think you're the real date, my out back. What's your favorite Dave Matthew's song or it has to be crashed into me. Right. Good choice rash. But we'll get to music another time. What? NSX was obviously a big transformational capability, February when everyone knows what sky and media and wireless and all of that stuff. Networking is at the core of what you do. Why did you pick Nsx and what have you been able to achieve with it? So I mean, um, yeah, I mean there's, like I say, sky's yeah, maybe your organization. It's incredibly fast moving industry. It's very innovative. We've got a really clever people in, in, in, in house and we need to make sure our product guys and our developers can move at pace and yeah, we've got some great. We've got really good quality metric guys. They're great guys. But the problem is that traditional networking is just fundamentally slow is there's, there's not much you can do about it, you know, and you know to these agile teams here to punch a ticket, get a file, James. Yeah. That's just not reality. We're able to turn that round so that the, the, the devops ops and developers, they can just use terraform and do everything. Yeah, it's, yeah, we rigs for days to seconds and that's in the Aes to seconds with an agile software driven approach and giving them much longer because it would have been hardware driven. Absolutely. And giving the tool set to the do within boundaries. You have scenes with boundaries, developers so they can basically just do, they can do it all themselves. So you empower the developers in a very, very important way. Within a second you had, did you use our insight tools too on top of that? So yes, we're considered slightly different use case. I mean, we're, yeah, we're in the year. You've got general data protection regulations come through and that's, that's, that's a big deal. And uh, and the reality is from what an organization's compliance isn't getting right? So what we've done been able to do is any convenience isn't getting any any less, using vr and ai and Nsx, we're able to essentially micro segment off a lot of Erica our environments which have a lot, much higher compliance rate and you've got in your case, you know, plenty of stores that you're managing with visa and tens of thousands of Vms to annex. This is something at scale that both of you have been able to achieve about NSX and vsn. Pretty incredible. And what I also like with the sky story is it's very centered around Dev ops and the Dev ops use case. Okay, let's come to your Ramon. And obviously I was, when I was talking to the Coobernetti's, uh, you know, our Kubernetes Platform, team pks, and they told me one of the pioneer and customers was National Commercial Bank of Jamaica. I was like, wow, that's awesome. Let's bring you in. And when we heard your story, it's incredible. Why did you pick Coobernetti's as the container platform? You have many choices of what you could have done in terms of companies that are other choices. Why did you pick pks? So I think, well, what happened to, in our interviews cases, we first looked at pcf, which we thought was a very good platform as well. Then we looked at the integration you can get with pqrs, the security, the overland of Nsx, and it made sense for us to go in that direction because you offered 11 team or flexibility on our automation that we could drive through to drive the business. So that was the essence of the argument that we had to make. So the key part with the NSX integration and security and, and the PKS. Uh, and while we've got a few more chairs from the heckler there, I want you to know, Chad, I've got my pks socks on. That's how much I had so much fear. And if he creates too much trouble with security, we can be emotional. I'm out of the arena, you know. Anyway. Um, I wanted to put this chart up because it's very important for all of you, um, and the audience to know that vm ware is making a significant commitment to Coobernetti's. Uh, we feel that this is, as pat talked about it before, something that's going to be integrated into everything we do. It's going to become like a dial tone. Um, and this is just the first of many things you're going to see a vm or really take this now as a consistent thing. And I think we have an opportunity collectively because a lot of people think, oh, you know, containers are a threat to vm ware. We actually think it's a headwind that's going to become a tailwind for us. Just the same way public cloud has been. So thank you for being one of our pioneer and early customers. And Are you using the kubernetes platform in the context of running in a vsphere environment? Yes, we are. We're onto Venice right now. Uh, we have. Our first application will be a mobile banking APP which will be launched in September and all our agile labs are going to be on pbs moving forward medic. So it's really a good move for us. Dave, I know that you've, not yet, I mean you're looking in the context potentially about is your, one of the use cases of Nsx for you containers and how do you view Nsx in that? Absolutely. For us that was the big thing about t when it refresh rocked up is that the um, you know, not just, you know, Sda and on a, on vsphere, but sdn on openstack sdn into their container platform and we've got some early visibility of the, uh, of the career communities integration on there and yeah, it was, it was done right from the start and that's why when we talked to the pks Yeah, it's, guys again, the same sort of thing. it's, it's done right from the start. And so yeah, certainly for us, the, the NSX, everywhere as they come and control plane as a very attractive proposition. Good. Ron, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about how you viewed the public, because you mentioned when we started off this journey, we didn't have Mr. Cloud and aws, we approached to when we were very early on in that journey and you took a bet with us, but it was part of your data center reduction. You're kind of trying to almost to obliterate one data center as you went from three to one. Tell us that story and how the collaboration worked out on we amber cloud. What's the use case? So as I said, our vision was always to bridge to a So we wanted to be able to use public cloud environments to incubate new public cloud, right? applications until they stabilize to flex to the cloud. And ultimately disaster recovery in the cloud. That was the big use case for us. We ran a traditional data center environment where, you know, we run across four regions in the world. Each region had two to three data centers. One was the primary and then usually you had a disaster recovery center where you had all your data hosted, you had certain amount of compute, but it was essentially a cold center, right? It, it sat idle, you did your test once a year. That's the environment we were really looking to get out of. Once vmc was available, we were able to create the same vm ware environment that we currently have on prem in the cloud, right? The same network and security stack in both places and we were actually able to then decommission our disaster recovery data center, took it off, it's took it off and we move. We've got our, our, all of our mission critical data now in the, uh, in the, uh, aws instance using BMC. We have a small amount of compute to keep it warm, but thanks to the vm ware products, we have the ability now to ratchet that up very quickly in a Dr situation, run production in the cloud until we stabilized and then bring that workload back. Would it be fair to tell everybody here, if you are looking at a Dr or that type of bursting scenario, there's no reason to invest in a on premise private cloud. That's really a perfect use case of We, I know certainly we had breaks. this, right? Sorry. Exactly. Yeah. We will no longer have a, uh, a physical Dr a center available anywhere. So you've optimized your one data center with the private cloud stack will be in cloud foundation effectively starting off a decent and you've optimized your hybrid cloud journey, uh, with we cloud. I know we're early on in the journey with Nsx and branch, so we'll come back to that conversation may next year we discover new things about this guy I just found out last night that he grew up in the same town as me in Bangalore and went to the same school. So we will keep a diary of the schools at rival schools, but the last few years with the same school, uh, Dave, as you think about the future of where you want to this use case of network security, what are some of the things that are on your radar over the course of the next couple of months and quarters? So I think what we're really trying to do is, um, you know, computers, this is a critical thing decided technology conference, computers and networks are a bit boring, but rather we want to make them boring. We want to basically sweep them away from so that our people, our customers, our internal customers don't have to think about it were the end that we can make him, that, that compliance, that security, that whole, that whole framework around it. Um, regardless of where that work, right live as living on premise, off premise, everywhere you know. And, and even Aisha potentially out out to the edge. How big were your teams? Very quickly, as we wrap up this, how big are the teams that you have working on network is what was amazing. I talked to you was how nimble and agile you're with lean teams. How big was your team? The, the team during the, uh, the SDDC stack is six people. Six, six. Eight. Wow. There's obviously more that more. And we're working on that core data center and your boat to sleep between five and seven people. For it to brad to both for the infrastructure and containers. Yes. Rolling on your side. It's about the same. Amazing. Well, very quickly maybe 30 seconds. Where do you see the world going? Rolling. So, you know, it brings, I pay attention to two things. One is Iot and we've talked a little bit about that, but what I'm looking for there as digital signals continue to grow is injecting things like machine learning and artificial intelligence in line into that flow back so we can make more decisions closer to the source. Right. And the second thing is about cash. So even though cash volume is increasing, I mean here we are in Vegas, the number one cash city in the US. I can't ignore the digital payments and crypto currency and that relies on blockchain. So focusing on what role does blockchain play in the global world as we go forward and how can brings, continue to bring those services, blockchain and Iot. Very rare book. Well gentlemen, thank you for being with us. It's a pleasure and an honor. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for three guests. Well, um, thank you very much. So as you saw there, it's great to be able to see and learn from some of these pioneering customers and the hopefully the lesson you took away was wherever your journey is, you could start potentially with the private cloud, embark on the journey to the public cloud and then now comes the next part which is pretty exciting, which is the journey off the desktop and removal what digital workspace. And that's the second part of this that I want to explore with a couple of customers, but before I do that, I wanted to set the context of why. What we're trying to do here also has economic value. Hopefully you saw in the first set of charts the economic value of starting with the heart, the lungs, any of that software defined data center and moving to the ultimate hybrid cloud had economic value. We feel the same thing here and it's because of fundamental shift that started off in the last seven, 10 years since iphone. The fact of the matter is when you look at your fleet of your devices across tablets, phones and laptops today is a heterogeneous world. Twenty years ago when the company started, it was probably all Microsoft devices, laptops now phones, tablets. It's a mixture and it was going to be a mixture for the rest of them. I think for the foreseeable time, with very strong, almost trillion market cap companies and in this world, our job is to ensure that heterogeneous digital workspace can be very easily managed and secured. I have a little soft corner for this business because the first three years of my five years here, I ran this business, so I know a thing about these products, but the fact of the matter is that I think the opportunity here is if you think about the 7 billion people in the world, a billion of them are working for some company or the other. The others are children or may not be employed or retired and every one of them have a phone today. Many of them phones and laptops and they're mixed and our job is to ensure that we bring simplicity to this place. You saw a little bit that cacophony yesterday and Pat's chart, and unfortunately a lot of today's world of managing and securing that disparate is a mountain of morass. Okay? No offense to any of the vendors named in there, but it shouldn't be your job to be that light piece of labor at the top of the mountain to put it all together, which costs you potentially at least $50 per user per month. We can make the significantly cheaper with a unified platform, workspace one that has all of those elements, so how have we done that? We've taken those fundamental principles at 70 percent, at least reduction of simplicity and security. A lot of the enterprise companies get security, right, but we don't get simplicity all always right. Many of the consumer companies like right? But maybe it needs some help and facebook, it's simplicity, security and we've taken both of those and said it is possible for you to actually like your user experience as opposed to having to really dread your user experience in being able to get access to applications and how we did this at vm ware, was he. We actually teamed with the Stanford Design School. We put many of our product managers through this concept of design thinking. It's a really, really useful concept. I'd encourage every one of you. I'm not making a plug for the Stanford design school at all, but some very basic principles of viability, desirability, feasibility that allow your product folks to think like a consumer, and that's the key goal in undoing that. We were able to design of these products with the type of simplicity but not compromise at all. Insecurity, tremendous opportunity ahead of us and it gives me great pleasure to bring onstage now to guests that are doing some pioneering work, one from a partner and run from a customer. Please join me in welcoming Maria par day from dxc and John Market from adobe. Thank you, Maria. Thank you Maria and John for being with us. Maria, I want to start with you. A DXC is the coming together of two companies and CSC and HP services and on the surface on the surface of it, I think it was $50,000, 100,000. If it was exact numbers, most skeptics may have said such a big acquisition is probably going to fail, but you're looking now at the end of that sort of post merger and most people would say it's been a success. What's made the dxc coming together of those two very different cultures of success? Well, first of all, you have to credit a lot of very creative people in the space. One of the two companies came together, but mostly it is our customers who are making us successful. We are choosing to take our customers the next generation digital platform. The message is resonating, the cultures have come together, the individuals have come together, the offers have come together and it's resonating in the marketplace, in the market and with our customers and with our partners. So you shouldn't have doubted it. I, I wasn't one of the skeptics, maybe others were. And my understanding is the d and the C Yes. If, and dxc is the digital and customer. if you look at the logo, it's, it's more of an infinity, so digital transformation for customers. But truthfully it's um, we wanted to have a new start to some very powerful companies in the industry and it really was a instead of CSC and HP, a new logo and a new start. And I think, you know, if this resonates very well with what I started off my keynote, which is talking about innovation and customers focused on digital and Adobe, obviously not just a household name, customers, John, many of folks who use your products, but also you folks have written the playbook on a transformation of on premise going cloud, right? A SAS products and now we've got an incredible valuations relative. How has that affected the way you think in it in terms of a cloud first type of philosophy? Uh, too much of how you implement, right? From an IT perspective, we're really focused on the employee experience. And so as we transitioned our products to the cloud, that's where we're working towards as well from an it, it's all about innovation and fostering that ability for employees to create and do some amazing products. So many of those things I talked about like design thinking, uh, right down the playbook, what adobe does every day and does it affect the way in which you build, sorry, deploy products 92. Yeah, I mean fundamentally it comes down to those basics viability and the employee experience. And we've believe that by giving employees choice, we're enabling them to do amazing work. Rhonda, Maria, you obviously you were in the process of rolling out some our technology inside dxc. So I want to focus less on the internal implementation as much as what you see from other clients I shared sort of that mountain of harassed so much different disparate tools. Is that what you hear from clients and how are you messaging to them, what you think the future of the digital workspaces. And I joined partnership. Well Sanjay, your picture was perfect because if you look at the way end user compute infrastructure had worked for years, decades in the past, exactly what we're doing with vm ware in terms of automation and driving that infrastructure to the cloud in many ways. Um, companies like yours and mine having the courage to say the old way of on prem is the way we made our license fees, the way move made our professional services in the past. And now we have to quickly take our customers to a new way of working, a fast paced digital cloud transformation. We see it in every customer that we're dealing with everyday of the week What are some of the keyboard? Every vertical. I mean we're, we're seeing a lot in the healthcare and in a variety of verticals. industry. I'm one of the compelling things that we're seeing in the marketplace right now is the next gen worker in terms of the GIG economy. I'm employees might work for one company at 10:00 in the morning and another company at We have to be able to stand those employees are 10 99 employees up very 2:00 in the afternoon. quickly, contract workers from around the world and do it securely with governance, risk and compliance quickly. Uh, and we see that driving a lot of the next generation infrastructure needs. So the users are going from a company like dxc with 160,000 employees to what we think in the future will be another 200, 300,000 of 'em, uh, partners and contract workers that we still have to treat with the same security sensitivity and governance of our w two employees. Awesome. John, you were one of the pioneer and customers that we worked with on this notion of unified endpoint management because you were sort of a similar employee base to Vm ware, 20,000 odd employees, 1000 plus a and you've got a mixture of devices in your fleet. Maybe you can give us a little bit of a sense. What percentage do you have a windows and Mac? So depending on the geography is we're approximately 50 percent windows 50 slash 50 windows and somewhat similar to how vm ware operates. What is your fleet of mobile phones look like in terms of primarily ios? We have maybe 80 slash 20 or 70 slash 20 a apple and Ios? Yes. Tablets override kinds. It's primarily ios tablets. So you probably have something in the order of, I'm guessing adding that up. Forty or 50,000 devices, some total of laptops, tablets, phones. Absolutely split 60 slash 60,000. Sixty thousand plus. Okay. And a mixture of those. So heterogeneities that gear. Um, and you had point tools for many of those in terms of managing secure in that. Why did you decide to go with workspace one to simplify that, that management security experience? Well, you nailed it. It's all about simplification and so we wanted to take our tools and provide a consistent experience from an it perspective, how we manage those endpoints, but also for our employee population for them to be able to have a consistent experience across all of their devices. In the past it was very disconnected. It was if you had an ios device, the experience might look like this if you had a window is it would look like go down about a year ago is to bring that together again, this. And so our journey that we've started to simplicity. We want to get to a place where an employee can self provision their desktop just like they do their mobile device today. And what would, what's your expectations that you go down that journey of how quickly the onboarding time should, should be for an employee? It should be within 15, 20 minutes. We need to, we need to get it very rapid. The new hire orientation process needs to really be modified. It's no longer acceptable from everything from the it side ever to just the other recruiting aspects. An employee wants to come and start immediately. They want to be productive, they want to make contributions, and so what we want to do from an it perspective is get it out of the way and enable employees to be productive as And the onboarding then could be one way you latch him on and they get workspace quickly as possible. one. Absolutely. Great. Um, let's talk a little bit as we wrap up in the next few minutes, or where do you see the world going in terms of other areas that are synergistic, that workspace one collaboration. Um, you know, what are some of the things that you hear from clients? What's the future of collaboration? We're actually looking towards a future where we're less dependent on email. So say yes to that real real time collaboration. DXC is doing a lot with skype for business, a yammer. I'll still a lot with citrix, um, our tech teams and our development teams use slack and our clients are using everything, so as an integrator to this space, we see less dependent on the asynchronous world and a lot more dependence on the synchronous world and whatever tools that you can have to create real time. Um, collaboration. Now you and I spoke a little last night talking about what does that mean to life work balance when there's always a demanding realtime collaboration, but we're seeing an uptick in that and hopefully over the next few years a slight downtick in, in emails because that is not necessarily the most direct way to communicate all the time. And, and in that process, some of that sort of legacy environment starts to get replaced with newer tools, whether it's slack or zoom or we're in a similar experience. All of the above. All of the above. Are you finding the same thing, John Environment? Yeah, we're moving away. There's, I think what you're going to see transition is email becomes more of the reporting aspect, the notification, but the day to day collaboration is me to products like slack are teams at Adobe. We're very video focused and so even though we may be a very global team around the world, we will typically communicate over some form of video, whether it be blue jeans or Jabber or Blue Jeans for your collaboration. Yeah. whatnot. We've internally, we use Webex and, and um, um, and, and zoom in and also a lot of slack and we're happy to announce, I think at the work breakouts, we'll hear about the integration of workspace one with slack. We're doing a lot with them where I want to end with a final question with you. Obviously you're very passionate about a cause that we also love and I'm passionate about and we're gonna hear more about from Malala, which is more women in technology, diversity and inclusion and you know, especially there's a step and you are obviously a role model in doing that. What would you say to some of the women here and others who might be mentors to women in technology of how they can shape that career? Um, I think probably the women here are already rocking it and doing what you need to do. So mentoring has been a huge part of my career in terms of people mentoring me and if not for the support and I'm real acceptance of the differences that I brought to the workplace. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be sitting here today. So I think I might have more advice for the men than the women in the room. You're all, you have daughters, you have sisters, you have mothers and you have women that you work every day. Um, whether you know it or not, there is an unconscious bias out there. So when you hear things from your sons or from your daughters, she's loud. She's a little odd. She's unique. How about saying how wonderful is that? Let's celebrate that and it's from the little go to the top. So that would be, that would be my advice. I fully endorse that. I fully endorse that all of us men need to hear that we have put everyone at Vm ware through unconscious bias that it's not enough. We've got to keep doing it because it's something that we've got to see. I want my daughter to be in a place where the tech world looks like society, which is not 25, 30 percent. Well no more like 50 percent. Thank you for being a role model and thank you for both of you for being here at our conference. It's my pleasure. Thank you Thank you very much. Maria. Maria and John. So you heard you heard some of that and so that remember some of these things that I shared with you. I've got a couple of shirts here with these wonderful little chart in here and I'm not gonna. Throw it to the vm ware crowd. Raise your hand if you're a customer. Okay, good. Let's see how good my arm is. There we go. There's a couple more here and hopefully this will give you a sense of what we are trying to get done in the hybrid cloud. Let's see. That goes there and make sure it doesn't hit anybody. Anybody here in the middle? Right? There we go. Boom. I got two more. Anybody here? I decided not to bring an air gun in. That one felt flat. Sorry. All. There we go. One more. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, but this is what we're trying to get that diagram once again is the cloud foundation. Folks. The bottom part, done. Very simply. Okay. I'd love a world one day where the only The top part of the diagram is the digital workspace. thing you heard from Ben, where's the cloud foundation? The digital workspace makes them cloud foundation equals a digital foundation company. That's what we're trying to get done. This ties absolutely a synchronously what you heard from pat because everything starts with that. Any APP, a kind of perspective of things and then below it are these four types of clouds, the hybrid cloud, the Telco Cloud, the cloud and the public cloud, and of course on top of it is device. I hope that this not just inspired you in terms of picking up a few, the nuggets from our pioneers. The possible, but every one of the 25,000 view possible, the 100,000 of you who are watching this will take people will meet at all the vm world and before forums. the show on the road and there'll be probably 100,000 We want every one of you to be a pioneer. It is absolutely possible for that to happen because that pioneering a capability starts with every one of you. Can we give a hand once again for the five customers that were onstage with us? That's great.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow, Knowledge2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at ServiceNow Knowledge18, 2018. Been here for six years. It's amazing. It's like 18,000 people all over the Sands Convention Center. Huge ecosystem and we're excited to be back, as usual. Our next guest, Greg Deitrich. He's a VP of operations in engineering at DXC. Joined by Tim Henderson, director of automation engineering at DXC. Gentlemen, welcome. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, first off, just kind of impressions of the show. It's amazing. This thing grows like four or five thousand people, I think, every single year. >> Yeah, it's amazing to see 18,000 people here at a ServiceNow conference. I actually attended back in October of 2007 before they had Knowledge. I attended a first user group session in New York where there's about 70 people around... >> You and Fred and a couple other people, right? >> Fred, his brother who ran operations at the time, and a few more. >> That's right. And then, obviously, you guys... We interviewed traditional partners way back into the day. You got mopped by CSC and you guys have rebranded into DXC. So you guys have a long history in really making a bet on the ServiceNow value proposition. >> Yeah, that's right. CSC and now DXC has had a long history of partnership with ServiceNow and, as you said, as evidenced by some of these acquisitions that we did with Fruition and Logicalis, the guys with the green suits around here. >> Jeff: That's right. >> And that continues to be a very strong part of our business. >> Good bet. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And what's interesting, and I'm sure back in the day, we used to talk to Fred. He had this great platform but nobody's got a line item budget for a new platform, right? So you have to build the application. Obviously, the story's well-known. He build the service-management application. But he still has that great platform underneath. And now we're seeing all these different kind of applications built on this platform beyond what the original application-- >> I think that what you see is the pivot to more focus on business and less about IT, right? And that's what we're doing with Bionics And Platform DXC. It's taking a completely different angle that we're trying to orchestrate business within an ecosystem which ServiceNow is a key construct of. And it resonates with clients. We've showed what we've done to several major clients and it's really trying to achieve, like John said, business outcomes and less about the IT. But how can you quickly bundle sequence workflows and capability to get efficiency and automation into the workplace. >> Right. So let's dig down a little deeper on that application. What problem did you approach? Why was this the right tool to go after this problem? >> Sure. So the big thing that Tim and I are driving across DXC is our DXC Bionics approach which is really centered on how can we digitally transform our delivery engine, right? So we're applying data and analytics and leaning out people on processes and applying technology automation tools to really drive intelligent automation across everything we do. To get better, faster, cheaper, more automated, scalable, repeatable. In doing that, it was really important that we took a platform approach and ServiceNow's been a cornerstone in that platform. And we call that platform Platform DXC. >> Why are you called Bionics? >> So, Bionics, for us, is that combination of data, people, and technology. It's not just automation as the silver bullet and just the technology. It has to be that combination of the data with the people and the technology and automation coming together to make people work smarter, work more intelligently. >> Jeff: Right. >> And I think some of that, too, is the muscle part of it, right? You think Bionics but, as Greg said, you've really got to understand the business problem or what's occurring. And a lot of people we've seen in the industry are applying just automation without really understanding the underlying problem. And a lot of companies have had IT implemented in a diversified portfolio for 20 years and these disparate systems are very siloed. And there's a lot of waste in the value stream of their company. If you really don't break that apart and look at that, you're really not helping them lead in their marketplace. >> Right. It's just fascinating how we continue to find these big giant buckets of inefficiency. All the way back to the original ERP days and you just keep finding so many giant buckets where things are just not working as smoothly as they could. >> You know, people will look at this somewhat and they'll say, "Well, automation is to get heads out." Well, actually, it's to free up heads, right, Greg? To where you can actually empower these people to go do other value-added things for that company and not sit here in this toil or managing technical data or inefficient waste. It's really liberating but it does take a good champion within a company to go pull that off. >> And clearly the people part's probably the hardest part, right? In the keynote yesterday, John touched on, kind of, best practices and one of them, I think number three, was a commitment to change process. And that's, obviously, a big part of you guys' business, helping people to get through that piece of it. I laugh. I have Alexa and I have a Google Home, and they send me emails on how I should interact with this thing to try to help me change my behavior to take advantage of this new technology. I'm like, "Oh, okay." So it's hard to change people's behavior. >> Yeah, see the people component comes down to a couple of things. One, it comes down to skills, right. And there's been a lot of discussion here this week around getting the right skills, the digital types of skill that are needed in this new economy. But the other piece that's more important, I think, around people is this cultural picot, right? So a big piece of our digital transformation has not been about technology, but is has been about a cultural change. Thinking differently, challenging the status quo. Working differently, right? That agile DevOps. Eliminating that fear of failure. Let's fail fast, let's learn from it in that continual incremental way of driving improvement. >> Right. And something we did when Greg and I experimented with this. We actually didn't know how it was going to work out. To put the platform itself together, we created this concept called a Buildathon. >> Jeff: A Buildathon? >> A Buildathon. >> Jeff: Not a hackathon. >> So we have our team. We have ServiceNow. We have AWS. Microsoft, Dell, other partners in there. And we write code together. It's no Powerpoint. You're doing scrum sessions. And we basically created the platform in 230 days which is phenomenal when you think about it. From inception to briefing Greg and the CTO of our company, Dan Hushon, to saying it's open for business. >> Right. >> And, as Greg said, empowering people, getting them to work. But one thing we're doing is getting our partners to build with us. We call it co-creation. I know it's a little dicey term if you take that the wrong way. But they're having fun with it because, instead of getting all caught up in contractuals and, "What am I going to make on this?", it's like, "Let's go try some things and build together "and then go, oh, well, I made that water glass "and I can go price this in here and everybody "understands what they're going to make in it "as a business." And it's huge. It transforms the workforce. Our partner network loves it. They're lined up to get into the framework. And, like Greg says, it's re-energized our workforce. It's been huge. >> It's interesting, the whole DevOps conversation. So all these terms, Moore's Law, et cetera, have a very specific application. But I think it's much more interesting in the more general application of that method. Whether it's Moore's Law and this presumption that we're just going to keep getting better, faster, cheaper, and driving forward. Or we really do have switches. No, we're not going to do a big old MRD, and we're not going to do a big giant PRD, and spread this thing out, and start our build, and someday down the road, hope to deliver something. It's like, "Let's start delivering now." >> Right. Gone are the days of those big requirements, and then go way, and then the big reveal. And, oh no, we missed all this. Right? It's got to be that more interactive, collaborative module way. >> Right. And the thing about the people... You know, we go to a ton of shows, right? Everyone's automation's going to take. But I've never heard anyone say, "We're overstaffed." That we have more people qualified in these new areas than we need. I mean, there's still such a demand for people across the board. Whether it's truck-driving or it's... >> It's unlocking the power of those people. Just to kind of share an example, when we went through the pilot for this to go get the funding, we took basically a womb-to-tomb situation where we would go do infrastructure to service a platform and have it in a client's hand for business. In the past, that would take us 2100 hours and eight teams and 53 hand-offs. In seven weeks, we've proved we could orchestrate that all the way through the last mile, getting to the client's network in two hours and 14 minutes to where the client could log in. >> Wow, that's a game-changer. >> It is a game-changer. But you free up those resources then to help that customer understand how to leverage that application and change their business versus all this toil of trying to figure out, "Well, did I get the network connected? "Well, who knows how to do the firewalls?" Everything is code. >> Right. >> And that's really, I said it earlier, we're really going towards business code, right? Because that's what John's talking about, is getting business processes code, and then empowering people to have that situational awareness. >> And then, hopefully, opening up their minds to, "Oh, my goodness. "If I can do this that easily, "what else can I do? "What else can I do." So, Tim, you've got an interesting background. Not that ServiceNow is not exciting. But you were involved in a very exciting business for years and years at Cape Canaveral. So what did you do there and what lessons did you learn there that you can apply right now? >> That's a great question. So it was actually an honor to support our country in that way. I was the IT director at Cape Canaveral for 12 years and supported Atlas, Titan, and Delta rocket launches for commercial and military purposes. But what I learned there a lot was two key things: systems engineering... That's almost like DevOps for aerospace and defense. It is people really building a system together and understanding what they have to achieve. The other thing is command and control. And that sounds a little rigid in today's world of agile. But when Greg and I talked about Platform DXC, what we felt is, we need and control system for business. Right? That has a complete loop. And we're going to talk about this Thursday at 1:30? >> 1:30. >> Right. So we took a lot of those constructs and we didn't even select ServiceNow when we put the platform together. We'd been a good partner with them. But then we said, "You know what? "They have a market-leading solution. "They're going to fit into the orchestration "of business." And then, there's an intelligence pillar, and an automation pillar. But we're seeing huge gains. Every client we get in front of is like, "Wow, we didn't think about that." And we also have, our partners are actually wanting to put their IP into our platform so people can just consume it and we could wrap another service wrapper around it. So it kind of turns into an IT marketplace in a way. So we're pretty excited about it. >> I'd love to just kind of drill down on the command and controls. Interesting. I talked to a company a couple of weeks ago and they were in aviation. And the guy's like, "You know, in aviation, "if they want to innovate around ticketing "or AV systems in the planes, "they can innovate all day long. "It doesn't really matter if somebody "can't print their ticket if it doesn't come up "on their phone." But in terms of the safety, it's not to say, in terms of the regs, and the maintenance, of the aircraft. It's super-rigid. You can't take risks. I would imagine at Cape Canaveral, although, some missions have people, some don't, it's still big, expensive missions and you really aren't failing fast... >> We actually move pretty quick, believe it or not. You can build a rocket in six months. They'll fly it in and you can erect it and test it in thirty days and launch, which is pretty crazy when you think about it. And a rocket's a lot of hardware and software, right? What they have is that value stream, through systems engineering and situational awareness. So, for example, they know every time a torque wrench is used, who used it. So if it went out of calibration, they can immediately go back and say it was used on this guidance system, on that rocket. We need to go back and check it before it launches. And it's really a pedigree. You know, who was the tech? Were they assigned? Did they have the right skills? Did they capture the data for the test? And you really have a pedigree. And we've actually built some of that into the Platform DXC. We call it the Digital Thread, which is something we'd worked on with the Air Force. So if you take compliance, right, and you have this thread of everything that's occurred, whether it's the people, an asset, an application, you have a thread. So you look at compliance radically different. So we capture a lot of telemetry, whether it's technical, business, or security. And that's where the intelligence pillar has this whole AI engine and machine learning and things to just start pivoting radically. So it's really a closed-loop system which is what a rocket has. The airplane that probably everybody in this room flew here in, right? It's always sensing itself and adjusting. And if it has a failure potentially coming up, it notifies Boeing before that plane lands that they need something to go look at. That's what we're trying to do here for business. >> It's funny. Another interview, this gal came. She was a lawyer. She was a homicide detective. And we talked to her about chain of possession. What an important concept chain of possession is. And I'm just curious about how cumbersome was that before when you started versus with the tools that we have now in terms of sensors and networks, and basically unlimited networking and unlimited storage? What percentage of it really was chain of command versus actually doing things, and that kind of followed along? >> I think you asked a question, how cumbersome was it? I think it was so difficult that, in many cases, it was not there. Right? So you had these big gaps. And you didn't know what happened and you didn't have the integration of the data. And now, in today's world, with these more real-time cloud-based, integrated systems, you're able to get that at, more and more, a commoditized price. It's no longer as expensive and difficult to get that. It's being commoditized where, in the past, in some cases, you didn't have it because it was too hard or too expensive. >> Right. So you didn't have that closed-loop kind of feedback mechanism to make sure that things go well. >> Tim: You needed people and paper. >> Yeah. >> Alright, so I can't believe we're, like, May 9th. The year's halfway gone. So what's next up in the balance of 2018 on this journey? If we talk a year from now, what are we going to be talking about? >> Yeah, so our strategy for this year ahead of us is really to continue driving Bionics, or intelligent automation across our whole business unit. So DXC, the world's leading largest independent services company across infrastructure, apps, and BPS. So we're transforming how we deliver and deploying that at scale. So intelligent automation at scale across your business. The second key piece for us this year is to work across all of our offerings and our industry solutions to ensure that they're built for operations and built on Platform DXC so all that efficiency, effectiveness, automation is built into the offerings. So that what we have ahead of us for this year. Alright. Should be fun. And it has been so far. We'll watch Elon Musk's car keep going through space because that's very entertaining. >> Tim: It is pretty cool. >> Well, what's cool, too, is that everyone's excited to watch the launches. They're going to get up at six in the morning and count it down and it is very cool. Alright, Tim, Greg, thanks again for taking a few minutes and stopping by. >> Thank, Jeff. >> Alright, Tim and Greg. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE from ServiceNow Knowledge2018 in Las Vegas, Nevada. We'll be right back after this short break. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's theCube, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to The Cube's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge18, I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost, Dave Vellente. The biggest conference of ServiceNow, 18,000 people here at the Venetian. We're joined now by Marc Talluto, he is the DXC Fruition Global Practice Lead at DXC. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me, appreciate it. >> So let's start out by telling our viewers a little bit about what you do in your role within the organization. >> Sure, you know, just a brief history, so I was one of the co-founders and CEO of Fruition Partners. So we were acquired by CSC, now DXC, about almost three years ago and within DXC, you know, DXC made a very conscious decision to use ServiceNow as kind of a pivot point to digital transformations for the customers. So by acquiring Fruition and then further investments, so we've done acquisitions in Australia, mainland Europe, the Netherlands, we've really consolidated a lot of the best regional partners inside one DXC Fruition practice. So within this practice, that's where we do a lot of our transformation work with customers that are starting or continuing their ServiceNow journey. >> Marc you and I met in the early part of this decade when this show was a lot smaller and it was, you know, well under, maybe around 5,000, probably even a little bit smaller than that. And it was companies like Fruition that got in early. You didn't see the CSC/DXCs and the other big systems integrators and this thing has just exploded. What's your perspective on the last five, six years? >> Oh boy, well I will say a lot of this is driven, a lot of the growth, not just from ServiceNow but from the GSIs, the global system integrators, that really see ServiceNow, how it can really be applied to their customer base. And so in the last five years you went from people that were interested but really didn't understand what it could mean, 'cause you know, if it's perceived only as a ticketing tool it's like, oh, that's not important. But as it's now seen as a, really a service manager platform, that getting in and servicing IT is just a way to go help HR, to go help suck ups, all these other venues. So what we're seeing is really an explosion of the GSI community here trying to do acquisitions like we've done. So there's been about, in the last five years, 17 different acquisitions of all those regional players into those various global SIs. But then those global SIs themselves, as we've seen on some of the presentations here, I and DXC ourselves, we're now using ServiceNow internally as a way to automate a lot of our internal processes. Used to be what we called Customer Zero or the Lighthouse Account is now the GSI themselves. So I think they've really embraced the message we've been kind of saying all along, which is, yes it's good for IT, but it's really good for how you operate all your shared services' businesses. So that's been, and it's been just accelerating every year. >> Yeah, remind me, so when you started Fruition did you start with ServiceNow or did you have, had you had experience with other platforms before that? >> Yeah, so we actually started in 2003, so about five years before we ever met ServiceNow. >> Dave: There was no ServiceNow, really. >> No, yeah, so we were used to using the remedies of the world, I mean, the other kind of various tools that were out there. But we also weren't a system integrator when we started. We were an, it's funny 'cause you hear the messaging now, organizational change is more important, customer success is more important. Those are really the roots of our company. We were like, listen, the process needs to be better. You know, we're pouring in to governance and all these things, we could use Remedy, we could use other tools but we need to really figure out why people are choosing to engage to do service management or they just kind of go off and do their own thing. So for those five years that's all we did was talk to organizations about crawl, walk, run. How are you maturing from fragmented service offerings, fragmented support, to really kind of being able to centralize those operations and then extend outside of IT? And when we met ServiceNow it was like, it's like they were telling us what we've been telling customers for years so I was like, that's great. >> The lack of a tool, a platform, that really does what ServiceNow does, in a way it might've been a tailwind for your business 'cause complexity, but on the other hand you had to respond and you jumped on it early. I mean I would think a lot of SIs might've said, oh no, that takes complexity out, complexity is cash for us. You guys had a different philosophy, you said were going to get in early, talk about that journey, that position. >> True, well you know when we first met ServiceNow, like I said, 2008 when they were about 40 people total, you know, their entire company. And I think we were 10. So we were almost, you know, similar sizes. But you know what we were able to provide ServiceNow was explaining the customer journey. That the technology was very important, it was very lightweight and nimble but that customer journey, that customer needed to understand, what should I do first, what should I do next? What should my one year, two year, three year look like? And that's something that we've always kind of held, that we saw ServiceNow also as being this platform. We believed in the Glidefast story which was ServiceNow before ServiceNow, maybe we were one of the first ones to say, there's IT service managers, let's just talk about cloud service management, enterprise service management. So I feel like their story and our story, we've kind of been maturing together as we've seen customers really adopt the platform. And some of the great case studies that we've seen over the years, those have been our customers that we've helped encourage to say, what's the difference between an asset that's in IT and an asset that's in manufacturing, right? These are the same disciplines so let's help them go out there and do that. So it's been, it's obviously been a tidal wave of work. It's been very interesting expanding globally and you know, this is just a result of a lot of hard work on everybody's part. >> We're sort of, at this conference we're hearing that this is a real moment in time, when you were describing talking to companies, trying to understand those who were sort of happy to operate in this fragmented way versus those that were truly committed to a technological change and bringing things together. Is that true in your mind, that there really is a recognition on the part of companies and employers? This is, we need to get better at this. >> You know what we're hearing? We're hearing from very large enterprises, some of them and even Aerospace and Defense that are like, we have to recruit younger talent. They do have aging populations that'll be exiting their workforce. I see this from universities that recruit, obviously students, but it's then the workforce. The expectation is now so much higher that their experience with IT inside their employer is much closer to their experience as a consumer. We've been saying it for years but now it's really become a business imperative as customers, I should say as our customers, they are trying to make their workforce happier. Well not only just more productive, more engaged, but also, you know, retention. It's, I feel like it's the moment of the worker themselves. And look at other economic factors, unemployment's at a historic low. Finding people, you're competing for your own workforce to come work for you. They can't show up and you give them a Windows 95 machine or like an Office 2001 product suite, they're like, that's a reflection of how you as a company actually operate so all of those are kind of coming together in to this consumer like experience for the employees of our customers. >> And a lot of talk about new ways to work, the future of work. So what's your expectation going forward for how that affects business, affects your business, organizations? Sounds like they're closing the gap between consumer experiences and enterprise experiences, what's next? >> So you know, big word, friction, been frictionless. Right, like where's the efficiency, what is the friction in different departments working together? I think as people really do adopt this, call it the service manager platform, that system of engagement, once those silos start to come down, once they start to share that data, we see it in individual customers, they kind of go through this aha moment. They've cleaned up their data sources, they realize everything's on one platform, and then they're like, can't I build this, can't I build that, can't I build that? Yeah, you can, and it really starts to accelerate. So I think we'll see the barriers of these business units really fall, I think IT's role is going to shift to be almost a, we talk about a service management office not a project management office. So the service management office is, how well are all of my services, whether it's HR, whether it's finance, how are those services being consumed by my employees? So I think we'll see that pivot, it gets away from IT being more T, the technology, and more to the I. Like what information and services am I providing? I think really we are at that catalyst and as people start to adopt that it moves much more quickly from here. >> What's next, what is, going forward what do you see as the DXC ServiceNow strategy? >> Boy, so this is something that we've been working, so DXC's only been in existence for one year, right? But it came from HBES, it came from CSC, right, 26 billion dollar company, 180,000 people. DXC is putting all of their investment strategy around digital transformation, behind ServiceNow. So we have another team here that focuses completely on building ServiceNow offerings that are behind all the other DXC offerings. So what do I mean by that? The difference is whereas Fruition will go up to a customer and say, we'll help you do ServiceNow work, the platform DXC team says, we want to deliver cloud orchestration, we want to deliver desktop and mobility workforce call centers, but all of those are powered by ServiceNow at the back end, all of our analytics so we do a lot of other things as DXC, obviously billions of dollars worth but we're switching that all to be standardized on ServiceNow. So we're actually breaking down the silos in our own company of how our different departments work together. So if a customer buys a cloud orchestration platform and they're also a workplace and mobility customer and they also have maybe the HR BPO, that's all on ServiceNow. The DXC platform, DXC, built on ServiceNow. So that's everything DXC's throwing at it is to be that player. >> And do you see ServiceNow, is that the platform of platforms? >> Marc: Yes. >> And I mean, you guys really are a technology agnostic. But if it fits you'll use it. >> Well we're an independence offer provider. We don't create our own products like an IBM might or somebody else might and basically put those products in front of a customer when they're really not the right fit. >> So, I mean, you think we had John Donaho on early and he said, look, there's WorkDay and there's SalesForce and there's SAP, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We want to be the connective tissue to those platforms. Software companies are funny though, they all want to be the connective tissue. But if this is what ServiceNow does, so, do you feel like they are in a unique position to be that platform of platforms and-- >> I really do, and we've worked with a lot of other software companies that want to connect in to that ServiceNow ecosystem because what we find is other software products are like, listen, I might be really good at security, intrusion detection, but do I want to create a work flow? And I want to create the CMDB, that means that I have to go build an entire almost secondary product to my core competency. So if I'm really good at anti virus, if I'm really good at intrusion detection, even if I'm really good at reporting I still need people to act on the information I'm providing them. But I don't want to build that action engine, so that's what they're almost setting up their own boundary, saying let ServiceNow be the action engine for me and we'll just plug in to them. They're becoming the standard for how customers work between silos. >> Great, well Marc, thank you so much for coming on the show, this has been really fun talking to you. >> It's my pleasure, thank you, great to see you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, we will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge18 just after this. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Midtown Manhattan it's theCUBE! Covering Big Data, New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsor. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live here in New York this is theCUBE's coverage of Big Data NYC, our event. We've been doing it for five years, it's our event in conjunction with Strata Data, which is the O'Reilly Media that we run, it's a separate event. But we've been covering the Big Data for eight years since 2010, Hadoop World. This is theCUBE. Of course theCUBE is never going to change, they might call it Strata AI next year, whatever trend that they might see. But we're going to keep it theCUBE. This is in New York City, our eighth year of coverage. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. Our next two guests is Andrew Burt, Chief Privacy Officer and Andrew Gillman, Chief Customer Officer and CMO. It's a start-up so you got all these fancy titles, but you're on the A-team from Immuta. Hot start-up. Welcome to theCUBE. Great to see you again. >> Thanks for having us, appreciate it. >> Okay, so you guys are the start-up feature here this week on theCUBE, our little segment here. I think you guys are the hottest start-up that is out there and that people aren't really talking a lot about. So you guys are brand new, you guys have got a really good reputation. Getting a lot of props inside the community. Especially in the people who know data, data science, and know some of the intelligence organizations. But respectful people like Dan Hutchin says you guys are rockstars and doing great. So why all the buzz inside the community? Now you guys are just starting to go to the market? What's the update on the company? >> So great story. Founded in 2014, (mumbles) Investment, it was announced earlier this year. And the team, group of serial entrepreneurs sold their last company CSC, ran the public sector business for them for a while. Really special group of engineers and technologists and data scientists. Headquartered out of D.C. Customer success organization out of Columbus, Ohio, and we're servicing Fortune 100 companies. >> John: So Immuta, I-M-M-U-T-A. >> Immuta.com we just launched the new website earlier this week in preparation for the show. And the easiest way-- >> Immuta, immutable, I mean-- >> Immutable, I'm sure there's a backstory. >> Immutable, yeah. We do not ever touch the raw data. So we're all about managing risk and managing the integrity of the data. And so risk and integrity and security are baked into everything we do. We want our customers to know that their data will be immutable, and that in using us they'll never pose an additional risk to that underlying data. >> I think of blockchain when I think of immutability, like I'm so into blockchaining these dayS as you guys know, I've been totally into it. >> There's no blockchain in their technology. >> I know, but let's get down to why the motivation to enter the market. There's a lot of noisy stuff out there. Why do we need another unified platform? >> The big opportunity that we saw was, organizations had spent basically the past decade refining and upgrading their application infrastructure. But in doing so under the guise of digital transformation. We've really built that organization's people processes to support monolithic applications. Now those applications are moving to the cloud, they're being rearchitected in a microsurfaces architecture. So we have all this data now, how do we manage it for the new application, which we see is really algorithm-centric? The Amazons of the world have proven, how do you compete against anyone? How do you disrupt any industry? That's operationalize your data in a new way. >> Oh, they were developer-centric right? They were very focused on the developer. You guys are saying you're algorithm-centric, meaning the software within the software kind of thing. >> It's really about, we see the future enterprise to compete. You have to build thousands of algorithms. And each one of those algorithms is going to do something very specific, very precise, but faster than any human can do. And so how do you enable an application, excuse me, an algorithm-centric infrastructure to support that? And today, as we go and meet with our customers and other groups, the people, the processes, the data is everywhere. The governance folks who have to control how the data is used, the laws are dynamic. The tooling is complex. So this whole world looks very much like pre-DevOps IT, or pre-cloud IT. It takes on average between four to six months to get a data scientist up and running on a project. >> Let's get into the company. I wanted to just get that gist out, put some context. I see the problem you solve: a lot of algorithms out there, more and more open sources coming up to the scene. With the Linux Foundation, having their new event Rebrand the Open Source summit, shows exponential growth in open source. So no doubt about it, software's going to be new guys coming on, new gals. Tons of software. What is the company positioning? What do you guys do? How many employees? Let's go down by the numbers and then talk about the problem that you solve. >> Okay, cool. So, company. We'll be about 40 people by Q1. Heavy engineering, go to market. We're operating and working with, as I mentioned, Fortune 100 clients. Highly regulated industries. Financial services, healthcare, government, insurance, et cetera. So where you have lots of data that you need to operationalize, that's very sensitive to use. What else? Company positioning. So we are positioned as data management for data science. So the opportunity that we saw, again, managing data for applications is very different than managing data for algorithm development, data sciences. >> John: So you're selling to the CDO, Chief Data Officer? Are you selling to the analytics? >> In a lot of our customers, like in financial services, we're going right into the line of business. We're working with managing directors who are building next generation analytics infrastructure that need to unify and connect the data in a new way that's dynamic. It's not just the data that they have within their organization, they're looking to bring data in from outside. They want to also work collaboratively with governance professionals and lawyers who in financial services, they are, you know, we always jest in the company that different organizations have these cool new tools, like data scientists have all their new tools. And the data owners have flash disks and they have all this. But the governance people still have Microsoft Word. And maybe the newer tools are like Wikis. So now we can get it off of Word and make it shareable. But what we allow them to do is, and what Andrew Burt has really driven, is the ability for you to take internal logic, internal policies, external regulations, and put them into code that becomes dynamically enforceable as you're querying the data, as you're using it, to train algorithms, and to drive, mathematical decision-making in the enterprise. >> Let's jump into some of the privacy. You're the Chief Privacy Officer, which is codeword for you're doing all the governance stuff. And there's a lot of stuff business-wise that's going on around GDPR which is actually relevant. There's a lot of dollars on table for that too, so it's probably good for business. But there's a lot of policy stuff going on. What's going on with you guys in this area? >> So I think policy is really catching up to the world of big data. We've known for a very long time that data is incredibly important. It's the lifeblood of an increasingly large number of organizations, and because data is becoming more important, laws are starting to catch up. I think GDPR is really, it's hot to talk about. I think it is just the beginning of a larger trend. >> People are scared. People are nervous. It's like they don't know, this could be a blank check that they're signing away. The enforcement side is pretty outrageous. >> So I mean-- >> Is that right? I mean people are scared, or do you think? >> I think people are terrified because they know that its important, and they're also terrified because data scientists, and folks in IT have never really had to think very seriously about implementing complex laws. I think GDPR is the first example of laws, forcing technology to basically blend software and law. The only way, I mean one of our theses is, the only way to actually solve for GDPR is to invent laws within the software you're using. And so, we're moving away from this meetings and memos type approach to governing data, which is very slow and can take months, and we need it to happen dynamically. >> This is why I wanted to bring you guys in. Not only, Andrew, we knew each other from another venture, but what got my attention for you guys was really this intersection between law and society and tech. And this is just the beginning. You look at the tell-signs there. Peter Burris who runs research for Wikibon coined the term programming the real world. Life basically. You've got wearables, you've got IOT, this is happening. Self-driving cars. Who decides what side of the street people walk on now? Law and code are coming together. That's algorithm. There'll be more of them. Is there an algorithm for the algorithms? Who teaches the data set, who shares the data set? Wait a minute, I don't want to share my data set because I have a law that says I can't. Who decides all this stuff? >> Exactly. We're starting to enter a world where governments really, really care about that stuff. Just in-- >> In Silicon Valley, that's not in their DNA. You're seeing it all over the front pages of the news, they can't even get it right in inclusion and diversity. How can they work with laws? >> Tension is brewing. In the U.S. our regulatory environment is a little more lax, we want to see innovation happen first and then regulate. But the EU is completely different. Their laws in China and Russia and elsewhere around the world. And it's basically becoming impossible to be a global organization and still take that approach where you can afford to be scared of the law. >> John: I don't know how I feel about this because I get all kinds of rushes of intoxication to fear. Look at what's going on with Bitcoin and Blockchain, underbelly is a whole new counterculture going on around in-immutable data. Anonymous cultures, where they're complete anonymous underbellies going on. >> I think the risk-factors going up, when you mentioned IOTs, so its where you are and your devices and your home. Now think about 23 and Me, Verily, Freenome, where you're digitizing your DNA. We've already started to do that with MRIs and other operations that we've had. You think about now, I'm handing over my DNA to an organization because I want find out my lineage. I want to learn about where I came from. How do I make sure that the derived data off of that digital DNA is used properly? Not just for me, as Andrew, but for my progeny. That introduces some really interesting ethical issues. It's an intersection of this new wave of investment, to your point, like in Silicon Valley, of bringing healthcare into data science, into technology and the intersection. And the underpinning of the whole thing is the data. How do we manage the data, and what do we do-- >> And AI really is the future here. Even though machine-learning is the key part of AI, we just put out an article this morning on SiliconANGLE from Gina Smith, our new writer. Google Brain Chief: AI tops humans in computer vision, and healthcare will never be the same. They talk about little things, like in 2011 you can barely do character recognition of pictures, now you can 100%. Now you take that forward, in Heidelberg, Germany, the event this week we were covering the Heidelberg Laureate Forum, or HLF 2017. All the top scientists were there talking about this specific issue of, this is society blending in with tech. >> Absolutely. >> This societal impact, legal impact, kind of blending. Algorithms are the only thing that are going to scale in this area. This is what you guys are trying to do, right? >> Exactly, that's the interesting thing. When you look at training models and algorithms in AI, right, AI is the new cloud. We're in New York, I'm walking down the street, and there's the algorithm you're writing, and everything is Ernestine Young. Billboards on algorithms, I mean who would have thought, right? An AI. >> John: theCUBE is going to be an AI pretty soon. "Hey, we're AI! "Brought to you by, hey, Siri, do theCUBE interview." >> But the interesting part of the whole AI and the algorithm is you have n number of models. We have lots of data scientists and AI experts. Siri goes off. >> Sorry Siri, didn't mean to do that. >> She's trying to join the conversation. >> Didn't mean to insult you, Siri. But you know, it's applied math by a different name. And you have n number of models, assuming 90% of all algorithms are single linear regression. What ultimately drives the outcome is going to be how you prepare and manage the data. And so when we go back to the governance story. Governance in applications is very different than governance in data science because how we actually dynamically change the data is going to drive the outcome of that algorithm directly. If I'm in Immuta, we connect the data, we connect the data science tools. We allow you to control the data in a unique way. I refer to that as data personalization. It's not just, can I subscribe to the data? It's what does the data look like based on who I am and what those internal and external policies are? Think about this for example, I'm training a model that doesn't mask against race, and doesn't generalize against age. What do you think is going to happen to that model when it goes to start to interact? Either it's delivered as-- >> Well context is critical. And the usability of data, because it's perishable at this point. Data that comes in quick is worth more, but historically the value goes down. But it's worth more when you train the machine. So it's two different issues. >> Exactly. So it's really about longevity of the model. How can we create and train a model that's going to be able to stay in? It's like the new availability, right? That it's going to stay, it's going to be relevant, and it's going to keep us out of jail, and keep us from getting sued as long as possible. >> Well Jeff Dean, I just want to quote one more thing to add context. I want to ask Andrew over here about his view on this. Jeff Dean, the Google Brain Chief behind all of the stuff is saying AI-enabled healthcare. The sector's set to grow at an annual rate of 40% through 2021, when it's expected to hit 6.6 billion spent on AI-enabled healthcare. 6.6 billion. Today it's around 600 million. That's the growth just in AI healthcare impact. Just healthcare. This is going to go from a policy privacy issue, One, healthcare data has been crippled with HIPPA slowing us down. But where is the innovation going to come from? Where's the data going to be in healthcare? And other verticals. This is one vertical. Financial services is crazy too. >> I mean, honestly healthcare is one of the most interesting examples of applied AI, and it's because there's no other realm, at least now, where people are thinking about AI, and the risk is so apparent. If you get a diagnosis and the doctor doesn't understand why it's very apparent. And if they're using a model that has a very low level of transparency, that ends up being really important. I think healthcare is a really fascinating sector to think about. But all of these issues, all of these different types of risks that have been around for a while are starting to become more and more important as AI takes-- >> John: Alright, so I'm going to wrap up here. Give you guys both a chance, and you can't copy each other's answer. So we'll start with you Andrew over here. Explain Immuta in a simple way. Someone who's not in the industry. What do you guys do? And then do a version for someone in the industry. So elevator pitch for someone who's a friend, who's not in the industry, and someone who is. >> So Immuta is a data management platform for data science. And what that actually gives you is, we take the friction out of trying to access data, and trying to control data, and trying to comply with all of the different rules that surround the use of that data. >> John: Great, now do the one for normal people. >> That was the normal pitch. >> Okay! (laughing) I can't wait to hear the one for the insiders. >> And then for the insiders-- >> Just say, "It's magic". >> It's magic. >> We're magic, you know. >> Coming from the infrastructure role, I like to refer to it as a VMWare for data science. We create an abstraction layer than sits between the data and the data science tools, and we'll dynamically enforce policies based on the values of the organization. But also, it drives better outcomes. Because today, the data owners aren't confident that you're going to do with the data what you say you're going to do. So they try to hold it. Like the old server-huggers, the data-huggers. So we allowed them to unlock that and make it universally available. We allow the governance people to get off those memos, that have to be interpreted by IT and enforced, and actually allow them to write code and have it be enforced as the policy mandates. >> And the number one problem you solve is what? >> Accelerate with confidence. We allow the data scientists to go and build models faster by connecting to the data in a way that they're confident that when they deploy their model, that it's going to go into production, and it's going to stay into production for as long as possible. >> And what's the GDPR angle? You've got the legal brain over here, in policy. What's going on with GDPR? How are you guys going to be a solution for that? >> We have the most, I'd say, robust option of policy enforcement on data, I think, available. We make it incredibly easy to comply with GDPR. We actually put together a sample memo that says, "Here's what it looks like to comply with GDPR." It's written from a governance department, sent to the internal data science department. It's about a page and a half long. We actually make that very onerous process-- >> (mumbles) GDPR, you guys know the size of that market? In terms of spend that's going to be coming around the corner? I think it's like the Y2K problem that's actually real. >> Exactly, it feels the same way. And actually Andrew and his team have taken apart the regulation article by article and have actually built-in product features that satisfy that. It's an interesting and unique--- >> John: I think it's really impressive that you guys bring a legal and a policy mind into the product discussion. I think that's something that I think you guys are doing a little bit different than I see anyone out there. You're bringing legal and policy into the software fabric, which is unique, and I think it's going to be the standard in my opinion. Hopefully this is a good trend, hopefully you guys keep in touch. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, thanks for-- >> Thanks for having us. >> For making time to come over. This is theCUBE, breaking out the start-up action sharing the hot start-ups here, that really are a good position in the marketplace, as the generation of the infrastructure changes. It's a whole new ballgame. Global development platform, called the Internet. The new Internet. It's decentralized, we even get into Blockchain, we want to try that a little later, maybe another segment. It's theCUBE in New York City. More after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube. Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Inforum 2017. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Dhiraj Shah. He is the C.E.O of Avaap. Thanks so much for joining us. You're a Cube veteran. >> My pleasure. >> So welcome back >> Yeah. >> I should say. >> Absolutely. >> Not a rookie anymore. >> Right, right, right. So Avaap is a major strategic partner with Infor. So just walk us, Tell our viewers a little bit more about the relationship and where we are. >> Absolutely. Avaap's been a partner with Infor now for the last six years and prior to that, with Lawson. We've certainly come a long way. We started it 11 years ago as a single individual. Last year when we were here, we were here as a platinum sponsor and the big announcement this year is we're a diamond sponsor. So it doesn't get larger and add great stage presence and one of the big announcements we had this year, was Go Live with Infor's new CloudSuite Financial. The first customer to go live on that Palos Help, was actually an Avaap customer, that we brought live in nine months. >> And they were mentioned in the keynotes. >> Yes, Roger was on main stage. Gave a great presentation and what we centered our belief in, is you have the enterprise software provider, which is Infor, in this case, you have the system integrator, which is Avaap and then you have the customer. For any successful outcome, you need all three of these to really partner and do well. And that's what was exhibited with Palos. >> I'm always interested in companies that place bets on an ecosystem and the leader of that ecosystem is somewhat obscure. Certainly was six years ago. I mean, I saw this in the service now community. You're a hot company. You're growing like crazy and I saw early on, companies like yours in their community say we're going to make a bet and they've done very well. They've succeeded wildly, then get acquired by Accenture and CSC, so maybe great things ahead in your future. But take us back to the decision to bet on Infor. What led to that decision. >> Absolutely, looking back is always great right? Then you know the bets have paid off. But when you make 'em, it's not the same. Our business was, prior to 2012 when we made this decision, was centered around Lawson. We had some staff augmentation business and we had micro strategy BI business. And in 2011, Infor acquired Lawson. And when Infor acquired Lawson, there was a huge amount of apprehension in the customer base. Cause everybody was thinking here comes the external team that's going to come and annihilate the customer base. >> Dave: Yeah in the private equity cash suckout. >> Yeah, so that's what they're going to do. I had the opportunity to listen to Charles and his executive team, in one of their first meetings. And Charles was very clear in his vision. He said two things I want to focus on. One, build software that's easier to use, that's beautiful and that's not upgraded every year. And the second thing was, industry focus. Now six years go, you look at the enterprise software platforms, SAP, Oracle, nobody had industry focus. It was the same piece of software, one size fits all. And Charles came in and said, industry specific software. So we bought into that vision and we said this is going to be a huge opportunity in the ecosystem and fast forward six years. We were about 20 people at that time as a entire company. We have 25 people here at Inforum. more people just attending and 450 consultants globally now. >> You know Charles Phillips is a real, is a true software visionary because if you go back a decade plus a go. If you were an industry specialist, you were a VAR. Yes, Yes >> and you weren't going to to have a multi-billion dollar valuation. That was not a way to make the big dollars, right and so it is still, was, sort of a somewhat risky bet. >> It definitely was. Cause it seems we were much smaller back then but still to shut down those businesses over night and I still have the letter that we wrote to our customers and our employees and said we believe in this and that belief has really catapulted both our organizations It's really helped Infor and it's helped Avaap to kind of, and that's one of the lessons I learned as an entrepreneur. That wonderful things happen when you focus and build really strong partnerships. >> So that letter will some day be in a museum, I'm sure but. >> Dhiraj: I think we, from your mouth to God's ears. >> But let's talk about that. That easy to use, beautiful software that is transforming specific industries. >> Dhiraj: Yeah. >> Let's talk about retail. >> Yes. Absolutely. So retail was a huge announcement last year, when they announced they're going to go after Infor as a company and build a new wordicle. We invested alongside them as their single largest partner to go and give support. What they were doing around Retail is multiple things. Because prior to this, what Infor had was a ERP platform. Financials, human capital management. What they wanted to invest is we write the merchandising system, which is at the heart of a retailer. Not been done for the last 20 years. And they're rewriting and made an announcement with the best retailer, Whole Foods and that project kind of kicked off. The second piece they did was they filled in a gap with merchandise financial planning, assortment planning by buying a company called Predictings. So Avaap, kind of went ahead of it and we started a project alongside them over the past year and now we're independently going to markets. So Payless, we just signed a contract to implement merchandise financial planning for them. And then the final leg to this will be the point of sales, which would be StarMount, which is another system that they acquired and now the whole story around retail is coming in. Cause as we hear, retail's really getting hurt. And there's a huge technology change happening in the market place. >> Now, does GT Nexus fit into that as well, in terms of compressing the, you know if you build to order, kind of. Somebody's was giving an example of a couch today. You order a couch from some retail store and it takes 12 weeks to deliver. We've all sort of been there. Does it fit into that equation? >> You know it does. Because there's a whole shipping, receiving and the point of contacts through that guy that comes into the play there and GT Nexus, as you saw on the stage today, the amount of traffic that's being used through GT Nexus, it's going to help a lot of the retailers from all they're receiving and mobile supply chain functionality. >> Let me say real consumer frustration. You order something and you wait and you wait and you wait and you're excited and all of a sudden, weeks later you get the notification, sorry. >> Rebecca: Yeah. >> It's going to either be delayed or sorry we can't deliver that. So that's lost revenue. I mean, how many times does that happen? >> Yes and when you go to website, it's a different order. When you go to a mobile page, it's a different order. >> Dave: Oh yeah. >> When yo go into the store, it's a different order. So bringing all of that together for the single back office user experience is really what is going to transform the user experience to your point. >> So, speaking at another industry or user experience and this is, more important than buying a couch, let's say your health. Then this is another way in which Infor and Avaap are really transforming of the way we shop for medical care. So give us an example of what you're doing. >> Absolutely. We're very passionate about health care. So health care is our largest wordicle by size. So about 75 percent of our business is in health care and Infor has a large presence, Two thirds of the hospitals in the nation use Infor for their ERP software. Give a simple example, we were talking retail earlier. When you go into a retail store and you want to buy a piece of clothing, you know what it's going to cost you to purchase that and the store knows what their cost is for that, cause everything's coming from a single system. In hospital's case, there are two key systems. We have EHR, which the electronic medical system and you have your ERP, which is your back office system. Your revenue, comes from your EHR system, which is typically an Epic or Asserner. And your cost information comes from your lossing system, which is 75 percent of the time, Infor. They don't talk to each other. Now the acquisition of Burst gives a tremendous opportunity for us to connect the two systems together, bring that data forward, so the hospital operators know, at the time of admission and check out, what was the revenue and what was the cost, so they can do margin analysis. >> So you can see how that benefits the hospital but it also benefits the customer. >> In the end of the day, >> The patient. >> Absolutely. Because patient outcome is what's at the heart of all the changes that we're driving toward and when there's a lot, We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars that hospitals are burning in inefficient systems right now. And if that's saved, where's that going to go? Towards better care. And that's where dollars need to be focused. Not in holes that need to be plugged in technology. >> So Dhiraj, explain where Avaap specifically adds value. Where do you pick up from the technology that Infor provides? >> Absolutely. So prior to a year ago, our focus was just on the Infor side of the platform with ERP and a year ago, we acquired a company called Falcon Consulting. Best in class, top category leader for revenue cycle, to bring an Epic expertise. So now, we have both the EHR expertise and the ERP expertise. And in fact, this was our first foray outside of Infor and we got permissions form the Infor executive team, cause this we saw as a strategic way to service the entire health care ecosystem. And that's really helped us get knowledge from both sides to now build the integration platform to service. >> And so is it the full life cycle of plan, design, implement and manage? I mean, you start with strategy and? >> Yeah, so we're starting with the office of the CIO and CFO and organizational readiness and talking about strategy consulting. Vendor selection, ERP and after, once we get into the actual implementation cycle, that's where we do the implementation of the ERP or the EHR. Once implementation is done, the third piece of it will be optimization cause most systems that implement are not optimized. You know, they're on the same archaic system that were implemented many, many years ago. And then the final piece to that is continued support. As technology is evolving so fast. You heard Charles speak about so many new technology. It's hard for customers to keep up, so we do outsource application manage service to help support their. >> So talk just a little bit more about the whole microvertical strategy. We're interested in . I mean obviously, it's real. >> Dhiraj: Absolutely. >> But what is the impact to you as a partner and your customers. >> That was a new concept for us. Cause we saw it, okay Wordicle, great and then Charles came and said, 'No No Wordicle is not enough, it's microwordicle.' So one of our businesses is manufacturing. So you take the business of process manufacturing, the process manufacturing for your brewer versus your baker versus your food distributor, very different. So we then started taking Infor's product and started building applications in the presentation layer that are adapted for those industries. So CloudSuite Food and Beverage has a variation. So Old Neighborhood Foods is one of our top customers and they're one of the largest suppliers of all porks in the northeast. So how do everything that goes behind the making of the sausage and all the recipes, all of that is very different in a business, than Albert, say if Albert's since then got a bakery that we're implementing the same product. >> Dave: And you add that value? >> Yes. >> That's a custom code that you write or? >> No, these are using Infor's tools because Infor has presentation layer tools that we use to build microwordicle specification. Reporting analytics, all of those are driven for those industries. >> So you're composing the tooling. >> Dhiraj: Correct. Correct. >> Essentially is what you're doing. So is there any application development? Any low code or is it all no code? >> Zero code on the application side. Cause that's what, being in a cloud, that's one of the controls that come in. So the systems of the 70's were all customized in the application layer and then every time there was an upgrade, you would have to go through a huge exercise to retro fit them. All of that goes away. Beause with the cloud, you don't have control of the application wear. So all these tools that I'm talking about reside in the presentation layer. >> Okay, do you run into situations though, where you say, it would be nice if I had this custom modification and what happens in that situation. You go back to Infor and ask them for it or do you say to those guys, Hey can you extend your platform to give me a low code development capability or some kind of pass layer that. >> That's a very good question and that's a real world problem that our delivery team faces and we had to mature ourselves to. I would say a majority of the case. 80 to 90 percent of the case, we go back to the customer, to have a conversation with them to adjust their process. Most, eight out of ten times, it's the customer that doesn't want to change the process. >> Dave: Yes of course. >> And that's why they want the software to fit that. We've learned through the chain management mechanisms to have educated conversations with the customers cause it's a lot more painful to change the software than to do that. In the two out of ten cases, there are exceptions of building plug-ins or going to Infor. So one of the things with our partnership with Infor, we actually give, have a direct line with their product development team and if there's a change that customers are requesting that others would benefit from, it quickly gets into their queue and then it's part of the product set. >> Well that's interesting. That's a whole nother line of questioning now because you think about the old days of technology. Technology was so mysterious. But the process you knew, right? >> Yes. >> And today, it's changing. Technology is pretty much demystified. Everybody has AI, right. But it's the process that becomes somewhat unknown. Think about IOT and the Edge and these are all, these are sort of wild west processes. >> Most often overlooked cause for project failure is chain management and organizational readiness. And that's the part we lead in with to ensure organizations understand the investment they make in ERP is not just getting a vendor to come in and do this plug and play but to have their organization adapt to what the technology really is best suited for. >> That's great. Well Dhiraj, thank you so much for joining us on The Cube. >> Well thank you. >> It's been a fun >> it was real pleasure. >> a fun conversation. >> Yeah. >> Enlightening. >> Look forward to it. >> Enlightening even to Dave. >> Absolutely, I always learn. >> Yeah. Alright, thank you. >> Thank you for joining us. We'll have more from The Cube at Inforum 2017 in a bit. >> Dhiraj: Thank you. Alright.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the CUBE's special presentation of HPE Hewlett Packard Enterprise Discover 2017. I'm John Furrier and my cohost Dave Vellante. For three days of wall to wall coverage. This is our intro section of our three days of Hewlett Packard Enterprises transformation and coverage. This is our seventh year covering HPE Discover, formerly HP Discover after the split. Lot of commentary today. We have seen HP over the years transform. We've been watching this, sort of a front row seat to HP, now HPE, really getting hammered in stock market their last earnings again didn't meet expectations, but this is not a quick turn around. I mean, this is a market place that's shifting. HP's had their plan now for multiple years. We're going to cover it for three days. But interesting. The world is turning. You had tweeted this morning on a Twitter storm you put together @dvellante, twitter.com. So it's Dvellante. Everyone should check it out. But it really highlights it. True private cloud, or private cloud, cloud has impacted everything. HP's kind of shifted their cloud strategy. It's becoming clear what they're doing, but private cloud, true private cloud, is legit. It's a 250 plus billion dollar market opportunity, as you guys have put it out on wikibond. Hybrid cloud is very relevant, and on the horizon is multi-cloud, the ability for customers to use multiple clouds. And on top of that we have machine learning, AI, and a myriad of things. Marketplace is shifting significantly, HP has been transforming significantly over the past five plus years. Your thoughts this year at HPE Discover and marketplace conditions and are they poised for success? >> Well, John, we're in the fifth year now of the turnaround that Meg Whitman initiated, and I think it's the light at the end of the tunnel year. HPE-- We've said many times at theCUBE that HP has the strength to grow. Well, it's certainly shrunk. They're about a 50 billion dollar company with a 26 billion dollar market cap, and there's a way to eek out some growth. If you separate all-- Call it Remain Co. Like the remaining company. Take out the software, take out EDS, take out actually tier one, tier one customer who's-- who's not buying as many servers as possible, or as they had previously, and the company grew about one percent. So what you're seeing, John, is some quarters HP grows a little bit, some companies it shrinks a little bit, but essentially it's facing what most legacy hardware companies are facing. Legacy hardware's down, everybody's scrambling to what we call true private cloud, which is essentially hybrid IT, trying to mimic the public cloud. And then HP adds in a dose of IOT at the edge, and then, really importantly, services. Services have never been more important for this company, and that is what I called earlier Remain Co. The remaining HP. Once it jettisons the software business this fall, that's what will be left, basically a 50 billion dollar company with about 55,000 employees. >> I was looking at a-- some IOT stories just last night, and a Business Insider article came up. It was an image, and it had listed the companies that-- by average age. And you had, obviously, Facebook, average age like 28. HP was at the highest end, like 39. And I want to bring up this notion of changing market because HP has always been customer focused, so the question is, if they are truly customer focused, as is Amazon, for instance, we talked to Andy Chasey, he talks about that all the time. And the context of where you've been and where you're going, historical legacy, declining markets, say servers for instance. And where you're going. It brings up an interesting point. And notable is recently Amazon web services hired Gosling, the founder of Java, which had a big conversation on the internet around age. A lot of the winners are older systems guys. So what's interesting is I actually look at that Business Insider article and saying actually age is a wisdom point now, because right now HP's got to solve customer problems. In addition to transforming themselves, they're looking at a customer base that's changing their requirements, so having experience is actually a good thing, as pointed out by some of the big leaders right now in hyperscale are old m systems guys. This is an opportunity for HP, and I think that's where I want to get your thoughts on. Are they customer focused in your mind, and if they are going to be, continue to be, what should their customer focus be? >> Let's talk about what customers are doing. So, first and foremost, customers are deinvesting in non-differentiated, you know, hardware maintenance and provisioning, okay. So they're shifting IT labor from provisioning luns and servers into digital transformation initiatives, so that's sort of one piece. The other pieces there as they're shifting those resources in places up the value stack. So it's applications; it's, as you say, digital transformation services; it's new IOT activity. So they're only investing-- from the HP standpoint, HP's an infrastructure company. They're only investing in infrastructure that looks like public cloud and can focus on hybrid. So are they customer focused? Yes. And what are they doing there? So they're investing in MMA, they're doing some MMA tuck ins. They're focused on develop-- delivering platforms with an API that are essentially programmable infrastructure. And very importantly, they're in a low margin business now. It's sort of low 30 percent gross margin business. So they have to get volume. How do they get volume? How do they reach those customers? Partners. So you are seeing a new partner emphasis. You know, are they customer focused? Yes, but they're really right now partner focused to reach those customers and increase their scale and coverage. That is a critical difference between the new HP, not that they always didn't have partners, now partners are critical to their success. >> One of the things that's the theme here is simplifying hybrid IT and I think from a customer standpoint, simplifying that is going to be critical. At the same time, creating new services opportunities. So I want to get your thoughts on the top story, at least from my perspective, here at the show at HPE Discover, and that is, is it better to be big or small? And HP has a strategy of a collection of small, nimble, agile business units. Dell EMC, for instance, has a strategy of being big and using leverage and supply chain and what not. Two different strategies. We pointed that out on the web. Certainly we've heard a lot of different approaches. Your thoughts on HP's strategy vis a vis bigger and better, or smaller and nimbler is better. >> Well, HP's not small. Hewlett Packard Enterprises is still big. I mean, it's a, it's a company that's twice the size, or more, than EMC was at its peak. So it's still a very, very large company. The difference is, John, I think they're focused. So they really are focused on hardware and infrastructure, the support, you know, the digital transformation, whatever you want to call it. The big question I have, John, is now that HP is getting rid of its software business, its outsourcing and EDS business, what is HP going to do with regard to software and services. So, they reinvented the whole services organization. The big question mark for me is software. Will they get into this, what you call inter-clouding business? Software to manage multiple clouds. It's a wide open space, everybody's going after it, and I haven't heard much from HP there. So what is their software strategy? Now, the other thing I'll add, is the good thing about being smaller is that it's going to generate cash for them. So they're going to get, going to get cash out of the spin merge with CSC. They're going to get cash out of the spin merge with MicroFocus. And you've already seen HP become more aquisitive with the Simplivity acquisition, certainly with Nimble recently, previously the Aruba acquisition, and some other tuck ins. That's critical in order for HP to reposition and continue to grow. >> Yeah, and my take on HP right now is they got to be more assertive. Their voice in the marketplace, at an industry level, has to be very assertive and relevant. I think that's something you've got to put the stake in the ground and hammer that home. I think we got the piece parts, and I think the spin merge is not a "they're getting out of that business." They're just decoupling from the monolithic entity that was HPE and creating kind of cohesive entities. And I think there's a strategy, in my opinion, that looks really strong there in the sense that, hey, at the end of the day, it's going to be a services game. And if you look at the IOT Edge, to me that's the tell sign of the marketplace. As the value shifts from IT-- So, simplifying IT, having true private cloud, having some hybrid pathways for IT, maybe a declining market from a service perspective, but simplifying that and operationalizing that and shifting the value to the Edge with services is a huge opportunity for HP. This is something that not a lot of people on Wall Street are kind of rocking at this point. But the value shift from IT, centralized IT, to a distributed kind of network effect is a really interesting play. And I think this a bet I think HP's making from my standpoint, and that's where the intelligent Edge piece comes in. If they could nail that, and layer on the services, and bring real value paths for customers with outcomes that are, not pie in the sky-- Sure, they throw some AI in there, machine learning, it's all relevant. Getting into open source. Taking that labs machine and memster technology and bringing that out at an appropriate timing. With the services in place. I think that's a good strategy for HP. >> Well, you mentioned Wall Street. Look, Wall Street is very tactically focused on the quarter and the margin decline, and, you know, D-Ram prices doubled in January, okay? So a company like HPE is going to get hurt by that. So that's head winds for these guys, these currency head winds. The stock, the price will go up and down. But the point I want to make, John, is there's a new competitive reality. CIOs have woken up to open source and cloud. And as a result, we've emerged into a new competitive dynamic where HPE is competing with Dell. It's competing with China, and it's competing with AWS. And it's one different-- Two differentiable advantages or services, you know, clearly HP's doubling down on services. I'll actually add a third. The second is partnerships, and the third big one, which is green field, is an ecosystem around IOT and what they call the intelligent edge. >> Well, Dave, great commentary. My, again, my feeling is customer focus at an industry level, having the right product mix that's relevant in the, for the solutions customers want. And also their partners. Leveraging that partner network. Really going to be a two pivot points for me. I see that as great leverage for HP. At the end of the day, everyone talking about declining market of servers and storage. I actually don't see that. There's more computers available now, more storage available. The key is can that shift to true private cloud, which again is a 250 billion dollar market, partly declining. And hybrid cloud is certainly growing. So, declining and growing, I mean they're all different perspectives, and I think HP's messaging here-- Come the end of the show, we're going to look at that and understand and impact and unpack that, that analysis. So, I'm Jeff Furrier, Dave Vellante. Day one of coverage, of three days of wall to wall coverage at HPE Discover 2017. More live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering HPE Discover 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're live in Las Vegas. This is the Cube's coverage, exclusive coverage, of Hewlett Packard Enterprise HPE Discover 2017. And I'm John Furrier, co-founder SiliconAngle Media with my co-founder David Latte and also cohost. Our next guest is Alastair Winner, vice president HPE point next portfolio. Welecome back to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Alastair: Thank you. Great to be here. >> So, okay, Pointnext Portfolio, Pointnext, new presence, take a minute, Alastair just explain Pointnext, how everything fits together. I know it's a little bit redundant for you but let's that start that off. >> Sure, no, I'd be delighted to explain. So, as you're aware the company has gone though a number of transformations and transitions. One of which was the spin merge of enterprise services to CSC, now DXC technology, we're, they're here on the show floor, so great partner of ours. But of course that created a lot of noise in the market and confusion honestly with our customers as to whether or not HPE was in the services business or not. So, the idea of the rebranding was to make it very clear, service is critically important. It's like the third part of our company strategy. So we have Hybrid IT, IT Edge and the expertise to make it happen and that expertise is HPE Pointnext. And the branding was chosen deliberately not to, to sort of replicate what you'd find in other traditional vendors. We don't talk about services in our brand. And Pointnext is literally to help our customers point at what's next in their digital transformation journey. So, that's where the brand comes from. >> David: So what's the brand promise? For Pointnext? >> I mean for us, it's about giving customers access to our expertise and we talk about really, a complete life cycle of a experience. So, previously we had consulting and support. Those terms have gone now. So we're looking clearly end to end of customer's experience and really starting with the outcome they're looking for, and having advisory, professional and operation services that connect those things together to deliver the, deliver the outcome. >> And what is the spin merge made up of? HPE Services and was it, the CSC combo? >> So we had a very significant, really IT outsourcing business, which was called enterprise services that was the previous EDS business. So yeah, that spun out and joined to CSC to become DXC Technology. >> How should customers look at you vis a vis HPE and the Enterprise partners? Obviously there, there the combination, how do you guys, where' the lines, where do you guys shake hands, where's the handoff, what are some of the engagements, like share with us some of the day to day tactical execution of your, of the portfolio? >> So I guess, we're still relatively new in terms of the brand and we're trying to really connect the dots internally to ensure that we present to our customers a seamless experience. I guess one of the things that the spin merge has enabled us to do is to engage much more actively with systems integrators and other consulting companies where perviously it was quite challenging to do so. So, with the likes of PWC and KMPG and Wipro and so previously we had, I mean they were interested in buying our technology. But from a services point of view, there was always some conflict. Now we have clarity, right? So, so part of our strategy is to really ensure we're engaging very actively with systems integrators. And likewise, we're also working very actively with our reseller partners. So, clearly HP has a long history of partnering and.. >> John: Channel. >> And as we call it it channel. And our channel partners are also going through a transformation because selling hardware is no longer a sustainable business for them in the long term. So, really helping them to transform their business from being product led to services led. I guess, I mean, the other thing we're really focused on is you know what are the solution areas. What are the business outcomes that we as an organization can really focus on because as you know digital transformation is huge, I mean it's a, you know.. >> Well, I'm glad you brought that up about the decline in the service, from a business model stand point, but we were saying in our opening, on our editorial segment that, you know a lot of people get hung up on that, but in reality, the numbers are all pointed to massive growth. Wikibon just put out a seminal report around true private cloud at a twenty to fifty billion dollar opportunity, market TAM. So, that's just private cloud. That's just. >> Yes. >> Cloud liking your infrastructure on PRAM. That's not including Hybrid Cloud. So when you factor in true private cloud, which is current state, situation, with Hybrid Cloud and then now, the, what I call the kind of the long reaching but viable vision of multicloud, >> Yep. those are really key dots that are connection for customers. So, okay margins of hardware might shift to places but the services, whether its IOT, an app integration, really it's a the center of this. >> It absolutley is at the center of it. And of course, I mean there is still clearly value from our products and our product innovation. But the way we present that value to our customers has to, has to change. And you're quite right, many of the customers, in fact the majority of the customers I talked to really view private cloud as their principal delivery vehicle, internally. IT view as their principal delivery vehicle. What we're doing through solutions like flexible capacity is enabling an IT team, to you know, to align the supply and demand of IT through an opex model rather than a capex model and really helping them right size the environment. So they can manage the fluctuations that they see because with digital there are, you know, there are many many more, the frequency of change is much a, much more... >> So the dollars are shifting to services, certainly the Edge but you brought up channel. This is a huge opportunity because now channel is reconfiguring both at the global systems integrator side as well as what was traditionally as VARS and VABS and ISBs, >> Yes. as they get closer to the customer. So you guys are kind of the glue layer between what was once HBE, get some training, speeds and feeds, to much more solution oriented. And trends there that you can highlight that should be notable for customers in around how the services is leading some of that change at the front lines? >> Well, I mean, you're absolutely right and I would say you know for us it's about outcomes, looking. We're not trying to sell the customers something. We're looking for an outcome that customer needs and then translating that into, into a chain of technology, people and process changes that they need to implement. And there I mean there are many examples on the show floor actually of services-led solutions. You know, we have the intelligent spaces cube for example where we're helping customers to manage, very valuable real estate in their, in their property, you know where you're always looking for spaces to meet your colleagues. When you turn up you want it to be digitally enabled. You know, we can combine all of these great technologies whether you know that HP or partner ISV technology into a solution. And then present it to the customer as a service. So you consume it as you use it as oppose to buying all the pieces, having to integrate together yourself, you'll own and operate, that's clearly the model, that, that's the model of the past. >> Alastair, the CIO's in our community, if I could summarize, they're telling us, I got to run the business, I got legacy systems that I have to manage, I have to grow the business. I have new apps. Maybe some of those are IOT, certainly many of them are data oriented, AI, big data, whatever you want to call it. And then I have to transform the business. So that's their digital transformation, >> Alastair: Yes. >> certainly their IT transformation, their hybrid component. So is that a valid way, to sort of look at the business, and then how specifically is Pointnext helping in those three broad areas? >> So, I would, I would completely agree. In fact the way we think about our portfolio is one of accelerating what's next. So this, you know this digital transformation, this change, and how do we accelerate and make customers much more agile in addressing the business requirements. Because, you know IT and the business are really synonymous now with each other. It's not a, it's not a back office anymore. It's the way the customer engages with their customers, with their employees, with their partners. I mean it is the interface now in which we work. So, we're all about accelerating. How can we accelerate that. And then, you're absolutely right the majority of our customers have an existing in store bays. The have many layers of, or previous generations of technology. You know it's, it's homogenous, it's complex. You know there, there are different ways of managing all of these assets. And the way we help there is really by simplifying. So we're encouraging our customers to work with us, allow us to manage the complexity, which frees up resources and money for them to then to go in and invest in the accelerate, accelerating what's next. So we're doing, for example, activities like, we call it operational support service. So we're monitoring and managing remotely the assets of the company that the IT team would have historically have done. You know, you go into like a mission control center and see all the, you know, all the lights, monitors. I mean we can do that for a customer. You know, the customer doesn't have to do that anymore. And the resources that frees up, they can go in and invest in the, in the, in their digital transformation. >> So that's not outsourcing, per se. >> No. >> You're certainly managing infrastructure on behalf of your customer. They on the assets, it's on their books? >> So, so we can do it traditional, you know capex model where it's on their books. Or we can include it inside a flexible capacity arrangement where, they're, you know they're actually paying per use. And that experience is part of the, of the solution. So we can integrate it into a pay per use model. >> I mean it seems like one of the things that HP services has done over the last several years, is sort of envision and reimagine that entire services experience and try to make it as cloud like as possible. >> Yes. >> I mean you got a head of that, I mean this has been, I don't know, three, four five years in the making. So, kind of give us an update that's gone and then, you know on a scale of one to 10, how far did you get? Are you at a five, a six, a nine? And what's new from here? >> So it's a great question. So, I'd probably give us a six, we're probably at a six I would say. So the, the offer itself, so flexible capacity, is, you know we've had in them market for five years now so yeah, we know how to do this. And it's very successful. We've never lost a customer. We have net promoter scores in the high 90's, so yeah, where we have landed it, customers love it right? So, we know it's very successful. And really what we now need to do as a company is sort of amplify that model as our principal go to market. Okay, so we're a product company, we sell products. So, there's a pivot that we're approaching I would say where we need to you know, use that as really being the lead, the lead model. So, I think, I think a solution designed for IT, where IT consume units of IT, we've got that nailed, right? I think, I think it's great. But flexible capacity doesn't address every customer's requirement. So for an enterprise customer, it works really nicely. For a tier two, tier three service provider, it works very nicely. We've got a whole tranche of customers, who really don't have the scale to benefit from flexible capacity that still want insights into their utilization, and their capacity. So we're actually, as part of our Gen 10 launch, we introducing something called HPE Capacity Care Service. So we're sort of extracting the secret source from flexible capacity. We're not actively managing the capacity on behalf of the customer, but we're giving the customer the assets to do it themselves. So that will be available by the end of this calendar year, so we're very excited about that. And the other thing we're doing is actually, to move away from selling units of IT service, like virtual machine containers or cause, and actually trying to focus on outcomes. So were starting to talk about things like back up as service, big data as service with Hadoop. So, again, really trying to create a platform that the customer can consume and all the complexity is abstracted and we present it as a service. So, we're at the early stages there. We've got very big aspirations for that. We think that's the way that our customers will want to buy from us. You know, they don't want the pieces, they want, they want the platform, the want an outcome as a service. >> Alastair, great to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for sharing. My final question for you, to end the segment is pretend I'm a CXO, CIO, CDO, CSO, whatever, CEO, Alastair, bottom line me. How are you going to make IT easier for me and simpler? Go. >> So, I'm going to make it easier by ensuring that we present you with our expertise. We're going to create an environment though which you can consume IT. And we're going to accelerate your digital transformation. >> Alright. Accelerate change, obviously congeeled economies here. There's no doubt about it. It's got a little cloud flavor, hybrid cloud, multi cloud. It's theCUBE bringing you all the data here from HPE Discover. More live action for three days of exclusive coverage with theCUBE. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (light techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida it's the Cube covering Servicenow Knowledge 17. Brought to you by Servicenow. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to Orlando everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Alante with my cohost Jeff Frick. Mark Toludo is here with Patrick Stonelake, cofounders of Fruition Partners now, a DXC company. Welcome to the Cube, Mark you were one of the first SIs that we ever met in the Servicenow ecosystem, acquired by CSC and now the spin merge with HBE, explain it all, how'd you get here? >> Yeah well that's great so we really grew up in the Servicenow ecosystem, right. That's where really Fruition became really what it was and is. CSC came 2015 so they came, acquired us, we became Fruition Partners with CSC brand. CSC then did an acquisition of UXC, a very large SI out of Australia and with that was Keystone, probably now the largest Servicenow system in the greater Australia so they came into our practice as the Fruition Partners Australia brand. We then went out under CSC and did another acquisition in mainland Europe Aspediens. They covered Switzerland, France, Germany, and Spain. And so now they're the Fruition Europe end. So we still have this Fruition practice inside of CSC at the time and then the HP enterprise services so that's only the EDS group, the services group, not the hardware or software group. So then they choose to spin merge with CSC and form DXC. So we're still the Servicenow practice Fruition Partners DXE technologies company so all the Servicenow, everything you're seeing, that's what we're enabling for customers. >> Now Patrick, how did that all affect the go to market? >> It enables us to be more global right. Part of the reasons why we acquired these companies and continue to look to do so is our customers are demanding from us a very consistent, boots on the ground experience, multiple languages, but all running the same methodologies, running the same accelerators and getting them to the finish line at the same time. So DXC and the kind of checkbook and influence of DXC has really helped us do our part in consolidating that market. But what I think we've really just started to scratch the surface of is how we can empower DXC as you know kind of become the engine that runs the nine major offerings of DXC and start to get service now into support of those offerings, modernize them, make them more efficient, and make them more attractive to customers. >> You guys were early on, you know we've talked about this in the past, kind of placed your bets, paid off. Is this sort of work flow automation the next big thing? It seems now that everybody's glomming onto it. >> Yessir. >> Is it and why now? And where do you see it going? >> So we see this, as Patrick mentioned, DXC has nine service offering families, right and that includes like big data, cyber, vertical applications, certainly the outsourcing business is still significant. But what we're seeing is Servicenow is this workflow backbone middleware that kind of connects us all. So we have the DXC offering family leads coming to us and saying listen we understand that Servicenow can do ITOP for a business process orchestration, we understand it has a SECOPS component, so now we have an ISECOPS offering. So they're seeing that Servicenow is kind of the glue to bring together these various offerings and it helps us go from our traditional relationship with the IT department to now branching out into HR, into security, into that CSM space. Even in the business process automation space, that can be claims process. The total business functions that are automated by this work flow, it's not just the work flow itself, it's that the work flow ties into the other silos so that it's not just email, it's actually intelligent email, intelligent routing. So we see it as the glue to keep all these offerings together. >> And then you guys are starting to build solutions on top of a Servicenow platform and go to market with the solution, versus you already have Servicenow, we're going to be a kind of typical consultant and help you do best practices, et cetera. >> Exactly, you know it's kind of a combination of the two. But I think the best way to think about it is that Servicenow is doing its best to be as horizontal across the enterprise as possible, right? Security is a really excellent example of a place where Servicenow is a natural fit, you connect the cycle with security and IT. But one of the things that we're looking to do is to bring the industry expertise of DXC to some of these Servicenow enabled solutions. Mark talked about our ISECOP solution, which is horizontal managed security services. But we debuted yesterday that we're going to be working with Servicenow and their catalyst program around a healthcare splinter of ISECOPs because there are all kinds of uniquely healthcare provider oriented security concerns that the actual thought leadership and the knowledge of the cyber consultants at DXC really bring a lot to the table. So we could build a solution in conjunction with Servicenow. They rely on us for the industry expertise, and they just keep that security piece humming and up to date and locked in with the rest of the platform. >> You know we have another offering, just to add to that, is out of Europe, one of the consulting groups said environmental health and employee health and safety in manufacturing plants. They said listen there's a product out there in the marketplace, can you do something better or different using the Servicenow platform? So we actually took that subject matter expertise from DXC consulting experience, we've married that with our Servicenow expertise and we actually have another product that we're going to market with. It's an employee health and safety, for manufacturing plants, for slip and fall, for any environmental concerns, any of the safety issues that they have. But that's really combining industry and vertical expertise with Servicenow. >> And that shows somebody might not even know they're buying Servicenow, right. (crosstalk) >> You're essentially OEMing the platform. >> That's what we would like to get to. >> You're not there yet. >> I think there's a lot of, we have a lot of we sell a stand alone on top of a Servicenow platform and it gets built. Tony Beller who's the new GP Alliances coming in with a lot of force, environment experience, and I think he's really charging with some of the bigger partners like us to really lock down that OEM because I think that's where we get a lot of leverage for Servicenow and our customers essentially want to consume as they need it and that makes a lot of sense. >> And are you reselling Servicenow in that solution offering so that they don't have a separate relationship with Servicenow, it's all integrated into that. >> Exactly, yup. >> Correct. >> And do you guys use Servicenow internally? >> We do, yeah. Ourselves we've been big drinkers of the champagne as they say for a really long time. We have a number of systems we use to run our professional services organization. But DXC, particularly in the area of asset management, some of the real ROI driven pieces of IT is taking a very hard look at the successes they've had there and trying to figure out how we can enable that success in the rest of the organization. Purchasing, project management, you know, these are things that I think we're going to do internally and then start to share results with our customers. >> Well we also have something called My Order Style, so there actually is how we do manage service provider outsourcing relationships that's built on Servicenow. And we do that internally as well, so basically when we get support or when we need support for our equipment, whatever, worldwide, that's being logged and tracked in Servicenow. >> And in Servicenow you clearly have very strong messaging around we start with IT, IT service management and then ITOM and then moving into the lines of business. How rapidly are you seeing that in your customer base? And maybe add a little color to that. >> I think we're trying to accelerate that. >> Yeah. >> I think what we're seeing is a shift as infrastructure goes to the cloud, as the IT department moves away from being the T of technology and more the information side, that they're starting to realize this role as more of a service management organization because oftentimes the applications that they're supporting are coming from a third party if it's Servicenow, if it's Work Bay, if it's Sales Force, but they can be the glue that holds it together. They can worry about the releases, the data hierarchy, but it's that IT as they are reinventing themselves. They see themselves going out towards those other departments towards HR, towards CSM, towards field service and saying we actually have a solution we want to bring to you. >> I got to ask you guys, as a consultancy, complexity is your friend. You know when things are chaotic it's like call you guys and solve the problem, but at the same time, you hear from a lot of Servicenow customers, we're trying to minimize the customization, custom modifications. >> Patrick: Yes. >> Mark: Right. >> Is that antithetical to the way you guys typically do things? >> It shouldn't be I don't think. I mean we don't want to do as much work as possible in one project, we want to deliver value over the course of many, many transactions that are shorter in duration. And so the more we can stick to the configurable aspect of Servicenow, the better off we're going to be and the better off our customers are going to be. They'll take releases more smoothly and so forth. And what you can do with configuration and app scoping is really, it's a whole other level than what it was five years ago so we're actually starting to fulfill that promise. >> And so if you can build value on top of the platform using the platform, >> That's the point, yeah. >> Those functions beget the advantage of the upgrade. >> Yeah I would look at this and say when Fruition really got going is when we really embraced Servicenow, not just the technology, but the methodology. Because we knew a lot of other service providers, they want a two year project, they want that SAP three year whatever it was. But we embraced the methodology and said that if we can't show results in four to five months using this technology, we're not going to be invited back. But look at today, we have 400 customers worldwide, about 70 percent of those make up our annual bookings again for the next project and the next project because they see value in these increments and we're delivering that. So I would rather not elongate projects, they need to see things very fast. >> Awesome, guys congratulations, I love your story, and Mark you got to present to the financial analyst group yesterday so well done. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you for having us. >> Keep right there buddy, we'll be back with our next guest right after this.

live from las vegas it's the cube covering discover 2016 las vegas brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise now you're your host John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back here and we are here live in Las Vegas for HP discover 2016 exclusive coverage from SiliconANGLE media's two cubes our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal noise i'm john / with my co-host dave allante and our next guest is Bobby Patrick CMO of the cloud enterprise group at HPE and Michael Loomis head of sales of global enterprise that at nuage networks pardon now part of Nokia that's right welcome back to the cube welcome for the first time thank you very much may the cube alumni club that's right it's bro my cabin I leave I gotta get a platinum membership now no VIP Thompson after six times you got we people want have a cube alumni event at these events so it's be fun next year like that we'll look at that yeah Bobby I want to get touch base on the cloud you also you'd run in the cloud group I Nokia's customer of you guys obviously HP everyone knows the history had the public cloud they kind of pivoted over and now you guys found your swim lane alright you to just take a minute right to clarify Andrey amplify what we talked about last and right I'm in London around HP's cloud strategy it's not like it's not define you guys have a clear line of sight right take a minute to just share your vision and the specifically the company's cloud strategy yeah thanks John it's great to be here again you know cloud is the catalyst for our customers transformation and our partners and got 24 here at discover onstage showcasing he lien at healing at work it up I've been there two years now and our cloud strategy couldn't be any more on fire and working this three prongs to it the first one is we want to help customers in a multi cloud world source manager consume cloud services across traditional IT private managed in public rightly so the azure partnership before we have dropbox now as well and others so we're demonstrating that second one is we want to partner with the leading technology so you mentioned the public cloud we used to have in the past now we're focused on that part of the right mix of our customers cloud strategy on public cloud partnerships so you see that Microsoft Azure specialty clouds like enter links around document collaboration you know doc Dropbox so all examples of demonstrating around partner clouds and the third one is we want to integrate our solutions with those clouds as well so managing that multi-cloud world is complex working with becomes like Nokia we're taking healing and healing OpenStack is giving Cloud Foundry we're layering on it called cloud orchestration which we now bundle as our healing Cloud suite today and we pull in public cloud we pull in manage private and traditional IT into one single solution for our customers so you mentioned as your and there's nothing in the announcements this morning that mention as yours that's the previous relationship right we announced our partners with as your last discover this one there's a number of announcements just showing it at work right our managed cloud broker offering cloud brokerage is a really big deal now for CIOs trying to manage a multi-cloud world now extends to azure so there's a lot of those announcements are going to see throughout discover with Azure and there's gonna be some other cloud announcements as well well we'll get to the eucalyptus AWS relationship kind of late if I wanted to ask you specifically around the strategy and how you see the cloud enabling delivery and on the opening i mentioned dave was asking about my views on HP's growth and I kind of use the story of back in the old days of the many computers this little laserjet attachment to walang system was a major growth engine for HP and the rest is history so we're kind of looking at the cloud and saying okay is IOT that bolt onto the cloud that is going to lift up where cloud becomes also pervasive like many computers and then distributed computing did how are you guys enabling things like IOT right because now the hybrid cloud public private data center right is integrating together right do you see that as an integration into the cloud and you enabling those kinds of things there's actually two big kind of growth axes that I think a report right one is you mentioned IOT so the number of devices connected the amount of data just huge orders of magnitude growth you got to actually drive costs down and things as well be part of that and so that's a big deal i would say universal platform that we announced as well healing is a back-end for that so massive scale on OpenStack on our cloud line service or other so you get that Maxim economics with new wash another spreading across multiple data centers for availability we have that platform for IOT but I think from a growth in March we look at the new hpe now right the lighter nimbler stronger when i layer on our security product security's number one concern our customers have going to go into cloud you know arcsight being able to do threat detection across a hybrid cloud right right the ability to do encryption with our data secure product right bringing in our big data products like Vertica for the column data store in our in our work around Hadoop or distributed are right when you get to bring those pieces into the fold right you begin to have the ability to add on top high-value software and services more of the stack you know obviously infrastructure across the bottom so what I see is us growing share of wallet growing our strategic relevance by both by both handling the massive amounts of data that's being generated supporting the connected world but also security managing that data big data fast data and providing that full stack on top and we're bringing all those pieces together but the past HP kind of have these siloed be use in a way right not anymore all these pieces are coming together and that's a big part of my my organization responsibility so Michael talked about where nuage fits in what's the relationship where do you guys add value so nuage is a what we call a software-defined networking product it's born out of some routing technology that we've had for a number of years we started our router products back in 2001 and we're number one or number two depending on the category and service provider edge routers and when you look at the the problem of scale out and flexibility in the cloud you need some complex network constructs that may not be ready of readily available in some of those cloud tools and obviously you can't go throw an expensive service provider edge router at that problem so what we did is we took that software use that as a SDN controller to manage the forwarding tables of the virtual switches or the namespace in the case of linux container integrated that into the distribution or a cloud system like Keely on and there you go you've got a stack that can scale out at the network layer and at the composite VMware killer yeah as a solution Kyle singer always talking about network and he's so proud of his acquisition of the stn player and the sierra which is a part of the vmware but dave and i always saw always saw that the network was the bottom that you seeing a rube out there yes pacifically talk about where the network piece fits in and why that's so important right now with cloud you mentioned some technical things but is it is it really the DevOps enable or is it about the containers is it about the micro services all the above what's the key will issue network is important for scale anytime you want to go multi data center or hybrid or you want to secure your applications you got to have an advanced networking solution or an SDN solution what's driving that scale you know we approach private cloud a few years back we had the stack we were putting it together we got nice production pilots up in the customers and then we found that a lot of the applications weren't built to consume the flexibility and the scale out that we delivered with that private cloud so these enterprises are going back and they've got new applications that are coming on that are micro services oriented architectures cloud native applications and they can consume this architecture and they're starting to it's not just IOT it's lots of applications that are relooking at how to take advantage of this infrastructure it's being built and that spreads across multiple data centers and part of the hybrid cloud which is why solid networking solutions important it's absolutely critical have good networking let's get to the DevOps question I'll see the big process workloads one of the things you guys have talked about in your announcements morning was obviously workload management having the ability of flexibility by poseable infrastructure yadda yadda yeah I got it Michael you that you're developing this stuff and the thing that Dave and I here and Wikibon community from customers is make it easier for me the total cost of ownership is out of control it's super hard to do this how does this get easier how are people managing through the complexity to make it simpler and how are they managing the total cost of ownership keeley on so that's just why it's important for us because we come in and we have a lot of great networking technology but people are not going to consume that networking technology in and of themselves they need a integrated complete stack that's supported installs quickly and as an orchestration layer on top that's going to allow it to scale the staples an example this I just say annealing what specifically about helium makes it simpler lower costs so when you look at healing on one great tool set they built together is an installer tool set and so there's nice scripting that's going to take when you look at a cloud you've got OpenStack components you've got your Cloud Foundry components you got your networking components storage components and to have all of that stuff install and deploy seamlessly and scale out as demand is required that doesn't come off the shelf if you're going to self integrate some of these open source projects so that the support and service that's added with helium and then if you look at the sea a slate layer on top to manage all the components and integrate in with some of the public clouds that's what takes the technology stack from being a great set of standards and a great set of open-source products that can now be consumed well dude some installation was the biggest barrier openstax had for a long time now how complex it was to install it scale right so i think that the contract and it takes it from a stack of technology to something that actually solves a business so that business problem is IT labor right right that's right non differentiated provisioning or patching or talk about the shift that's going on within that sort of labor pool from stuff that gives you no competitive advantage out to where we are today or where we're headed we used to go into proof of concepts and the customer would one or two types they either have an OpenStack expert in there someone who had lived and breathe it and was part of the original community and they would work with us to get the initial stack up and running a guy a guy or we would have to bring that guy to the table and they get somebody that was trying to be that person we'd help them stand up OpenStack at the same time we'd go in with nuage we knew that wasn't going to work so that's when we started partnering strongly with partners like healing on who can come in and make that work for the enterprise and if you're in a CIOs position you don't want to be dependent on one or two OpenStack experts that you've got to make sure stay or you gotta hire an army of OpenStack engineers what you want is a private cloud that works in a trusted partner to deliver it for you but you want the openness and the standards-based attributes of a product like Helion so you can plug other pieces of the environment in so that's it's really important Dave just you know the average the average customer that we have today has one engineer for every 240 virtual machines with helium staccato 40 which were rolling out has we believe we can get that to 12 500 and that's because you've got a universal control plane where you've got a single pane of glass basically across all the clouds but as your AWS openstack-based clouds maybe even some vmware stack clouds as well and and you could through one see the workloads deploy them that's how you really get a continuous delivery pipeline going it's api's for developers but a single pane of glass for IT and scale what's key it's working now so it brought up VMware VMware killer when you mention it so I'll bring up the VMware question so back in the day VMware ecosystem was really robust yeah some are saying it's on the decline will see that what's the update our vmworld the cube will be there again this year but they made for every one of their partners they made ten dollars for every dollar VMware book so they threw up a lot of cash which is great but the ecosystem you know feeds the feeds that feeds the beast if you will how are you guys Bobby doing that with your partners and now do you see docker for instance enabling things like that and how does that all you have to do some sort of economic advantage for your partners can you share some insight into what you got yeah yeah yeah so in addition to you know that the terms around helping it be attractive to skill up and and transfer our partners transforming as well most of them in resellers you know they want to climb the stack now they would be more relevant to their customers the skilling up does have come with cost and one of the big things we're doing is working on go to market with them actually bringing them bringing them opportunities bringing them in the deals in the case of like with with with Nokia right the ability to to go in with them work on accounts together these are major really large significant IT transformations with our other partners as well skilling them up getting bringing them away wrapping services around their monetization services wrappers yeah they're actually building hostess back up as a service other kinds of service offerings that they build and run themselves that we will actually sell to our go-to-market channels or they'll deploy on site that you know most of our business you know seventy percent goes through the channel right was there a number can you share a number ten dollars I don't have the number by the number how do stuff how does the ecosystem build around and how they make money with helion's the services is that the apps we deploy we sell software licenses so as Helion scales out we get more workloads on the system then we're going to sell more software licenses but the ecosystem is critical for us because when you're talking about building a private cloud and you're talking about building an open private cloud which is getting away from the vendor lock that exists today which is why people are driving to some of these open source products it means that a lot of products have to come together and work well together and so it usually it's the it's the OpenStack distribution that's that's like healing on that's leading that ecosystem we're a part of that and then we get interaction with a lot of other components as a part of that ecosystem that helps build an end solution to the customer we have 360 now cloud builder partners we had 30 18 months ago will have 3018 more months right we're transforming them and they're building new businesses hire marketing services and grow in their bodies how do you see the CSC Spinco whatever we're going to call that affecting is you had basically a built-in consumer right of you know your stuff there one of the Cantonian area's biggest customers right how will that shake out you think and of course CS he has a strong relationship with AWS that's goodness but yeah yeah I think I think it's about focuses meg always says writes about it's about having companies i can really focus on their best thing right so you know we have a growth high growth a growth company focus on software and hardware and infrastucture and services I think outsourcing they're coming together with CSC they're building a be a big partner of ours but we're also part with Accenture and others as well so I think it's hella everybody to be the best of what they do we'll have relationships contractual and partnership relationships but it will allow maybe a bit more complete competition probably very very healthy you feel Alfie with the sis the big power s eyes you guys in good shape with those guys yeah in Price Waterhouse Coopers just received a partner of the year for cloud they're here in a big way accenture is here yeah I think they're they're big as well but you know our enterprise services and and they're here in a big way too and I think that will continue some of the influences out there last question wants to know about the update on equal lyptus AWS that relation down can give an update yeah so our strategy is to partner with public cloud providers many of them eucalyptus has a great story you know where obviously you go to reinvent or a big part of that you know I think there will be you'll see more to come on the public cloud partnership partnership face but will be at reinvent no to the cube watch a movie at dr. Khan as well coming up very quickly I think next week or the week after thank you okay let me avenge coming up guys thanks so much appreciate it thanks for spending the time yeah thank you i'll be Patrick Michael Loomis here on the cube this is a cube we'll be right back after this short break