>> Narrator: Live from New Orleans, it's the CUBE. Covering VeeamON 2017. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to the Big Easy everybody. This is the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. And name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days of wall to wall coverage of VeeamON. Gavin Cohen is here. He's the Vice President of Product Marketing at Nimble, a Hewlett-Packard Enterprise company now. Gavin, good to see you. Congratulations on the exit. >> Thank you Dave. >> So, new times. New, whole new lot of going on. I mean, first of all, what's it like to be part of HPE? You know, it's early days, but how's that going? >> So we're a few weeks into it. It's extremely exciting so far. We're running a thousand miles an hour. And what's been absolutely terrific is the acquisition, it's an expansion acquisition. So, that means the entire Nimble Storage product line continues to exist and stays alive. But we get access to massive global sales force that we didn't have as an independent company. So, very exciting stuff for us. >> And a huge channel as well. I mean, I haven't talked to folks at Nimble, on The Cube anyways, since, thought it was back at one of the SNWs, Stu. So maybe you can give us the, sort of, Nimble 101, if you wouldn't mind, Gavin. >> Sure, sure. So if you look, I mean, really the things, there are several things that set Nimble apart. We all, with a bunch of other flash start-ups, had first prites to market around 2010. Nimble really accelerated that. To the point of the acquisition, we had over 10,000 customers worldwide. We really managed to, very much, change the game in storage. From starting as a company focused hybrid storage, we had a very successful launch last year. The VAR All Flash and managed a very large portion of our business into all Flash. But, overriding that and probably the thing that sets apart more than anything from not just the storage start-ups but from all the large storage vendors is our use of predictive analytics and what we've been able to do with it. [Dave]- So talk a little bit more about that >> Sure. So, I mean, our platform's called Infosight. And the idea is in the infrastructure that we exist in, so the storage array standing all the way through the networks that compute, all the way up to they hypervisor. Everyday we collect millions of sensor data points. Actually, as a collective base, we're processing, every second, millions of these status sensor data points. And what we're doing with it, is we're passing it through all these techniques of predictive analytics and machine learning. And we use it, really, to predict and prevent problems. So our goal is not just delivering fast Flash performance from the array but really this end-to-end delivery of data up to the application in a better way than it's otherwise possible. >> So you kind of had in the early days, it was the original EMC phone home. We all remember that. And then around, sort of the, virtualization guys, the three PARS, the compellents, they had what we used to call the hero reports. And it was good. >> Yeah. >> And it was kind of a phone home on steroids What you're talking about is a whole new advancement in analytics that drives anticipatory actions, potentially. Is that right? >> Very much. I mean, they're from maybe three numbers that speak to it. So, 86% of problems that would normally involve a call to vendor support, So, in this case, Nimble support, We completely, end-to-end, automate. All the way from recognizing the problem before the customer even sees the problem through to resolution. And it's pretty remarkable, 'cause it's just the stuff you'd expect from a phone home, where we recognize the power supply is going wrong, or a SSD is not working correctly. We can recognize misconfigurations on the host or a bad HBA, or a MultiPar setting that's not correct that's impacting performance and then proactively tell the customer about it. They might not be aware. And actually tell them how to resolve it. So, it's kind of a remarkable one. >> You know, Gavin, I heard you say, if this announced today, you'd probably say that you're an artificial intelligence company. >> That's right. >> If that's going to help. >> We just hadn't quite coined that word when we came up. You know, it really is, 'cause you look at, you know, I said there were a few interesting metrics The other one that's sort of been astounding particularly for new technology in a world where storage has been around for many many years. We've hit well over six nines of measured availability across our install base. But not just across one configuration, across every Nimble array out there running every version of OS in every kind of environment. We're well over the six nines of availability. And then, probably the most astounding of all, is 54% of the issues that InfoSight resolves are not actually tied to the storage. So they're all these problems that are outside of storage. And that's the stuff that customers just love. 'Cause these are these needle in a haystack problems with VMware settings or problems on the network that get blamed on the storage and end up having a root cause outside of. >> How do you get visibility beyond your own little world of storage? >> Yeah. So that's part of our secrets. So we have these collectors that all stems from the array but we also collect up through the stacks. We have our V center agent as an example. And they all feed in analytics. A lot of what was built into Nimble from day zero was just this infrastructure of sending out sensor data and then collecting it and processing it. And then, over the years, we've just expanded. So we started where we just collected from the array. Now we push out of the array and sort of cover most of the infrastructure. And that's really where the differentiation is because when you correlate all those different data points you get some really interesting insights. >> So you ingest that data essentially in real time. >> Yep. Yep. >> And then process it and spit it back out. >> Gavin: Process it and help the customers. >> I love this new metrics, you know, when I think it gives substance to disruption when you have new metrics that you created. Like in particular 86%, you know, of the failures are automated. >> Yes. >> Or the problems are automated, that no human. So that I guess that's the fourth metric which it's hard to get but how much time you save people. >> It is and it's almost impossible to measure because no one publishes their amount of time wasted on storage. But we know, just anecdotally, when you talk to any customer, any customer with any vendor's products, when they run well, they run well. When they don't, hunting down those problems and dealing with multiple vendors and everything. It's an absolute nightmare. I think that's what we've managed to, sort of, crack into and really deliver something better for our customers. And the other, while we're on numbers, Net Promoter Scores get thrown around a lot. But as an independent company, Nimble has the highest storage Net Promoter Score in the industry. So we crossed over 85... >> Wow. as our Net Promoter Score. And it's mostly when you talk to customers. It's just that support experience. They've never seen anything like it from a vendor. >> That's great. I couldn't help but notice when the keynote was going on they put up the key sponsors that had different levels. Both HPE was there and Nimble was there. >> Gavin: That's right. >> So your team was already planning to be here prior to the acquisition. >> Gavin: Yeah. >> Tell us a little bit about the partnership, you know, any specific products you have at Nimble that fit in this space. >> Yeah, so probably two pieces that are interesting. We have very deep integration with Veeam. And we're actually the first of the smaller storage vendors to be integrated with Veeam. If you look, initially, they integrated themselves with the big players that you'd expect. We were the first of the others. The integration lends itself to exactly what we do well. We do a really good job of snapshots and replications and supporting the number of snapshots and replication points. So it's just a really sleek integration where you can drive the entire backup process through Veeam but actually, behind the scenes, Nimble does all the data movement and the snapshot creation under Veeam's management. The second thing, and this is actually a product that we showcased for the first time at VeeamON, so at our stand, now the HPE stand, is what we call the Secondary Flash Array. And it's kind of a very unique device because when you think about backup, most backup repositories, they're a one way repository. You put stuff in, you access it when you need to, but when you access it needs to come back. You need to copy it back and it's slow. And what we have done is we have built a secondary storage device that's great at accepting Veeam backups. It's got inline, dedupe, and compression and everything. So it's very efficient but you can actually run real work loads on this device. So we've come up with this idea of put your backup data to work. Instead of having it sit there idle, you can spin up, dev/test, and QA, and do things with that data or verify your backups because now you have performance. >> Yeah, that's always been the problem with storage, right? If you make replicas or if you have backups you've got a certain amount of resources that aren't being used or that the other piece is so, you know, back up is great but recovery is everything. So, you need to be able to be fast. You need to be able to be nimble, I guess, would be the case, right? >> Gavin: That would be right. We love that. >> So it's really, I would infer that what that is is a productivity tool that you can also use for backups. Is that a fair way to think of it? >> Yeah, I think it's actually, I think, how it will end up getting used. I think the use case always starts a backup. You need to put your backup data somewhere. And most people will choose to put it somewhere that's highly cost optimized knowing full well the trade off is, when you need to restore it, it's not going to behave like your primary device. This is opening up a whole new, as you said, a new use case where, you get the data there but then really the interesting thing comes that you use that everyday. So you can run all these other secondary processes on it or you could fail over to it and actually run production on it if you needed to. >> And you can be cost competitive because of your data reduction techniques. Is that right? >> That's right. Exactly. >> Okay, so, for those of you out there that don't believe that, let's push on that a little bit. The spinning disc guys will tell us, you know it's true for so-called high spin speed devices but when you get to the cheap and deep stuff, we're still much, much cheaper. Your counter would be that you can't reduce, data reduce, that stuff effectively? Is that right? >> Yeah, you know, I think really you got to look at the usual, the cost trade offs, right? If you want then, now the portfolio that we're a part of is a perfect example. If you want the most cost effective place to put your back up data, It's the HP StoreOnce product. It's totally designed around being an efficient destination for backups. It's got, you know, dedupe like nothing else, that'll crunch that data down. And you can store it for, you know, months or years very cost effectively. >> Dave: And then you're done. >> Then you're done, right. Now, you can get the data back and it's absolutely rock-solid but it doesn't behave like a primary storage device. Our Secondary Flash Array is somewhere in between the cost of primary disc, or primary Flash, and hybrid disc and that, sort of, cheap and deep. In that it's got a lot of the low cost attributes because of compression and dedupe but it's not got IOPS, so you can do things with it. And that's really where no secondary device has gone before. >> Data sharing, it's got a cherry on top and some sprinkles. >> Gavin: That's it. >> Gavin, last question I have for you is the acquisition's done. You've talked a little bit about the channel. Many people look at Infosight as the, kind of the gem of your portfolio. Can you give us any guidance as to where we can expect to see that driven throughout the HP portfolio? >> Yeah, sure. So the best thing is I'm not yet, I think, subject to knowing about all the rules of what I can and can't talk about. >> Great. Give us all the info. (laughing) >> No, I mean, as a very clear state of direction, HP acquired Nimble, you know, a large reason was InfoSight and just looking at what we've done as an independent company, I mean, Imagine if you could start to transform the support processes that HP could offer and bring some of these capabilities to their own product line. So we're already embarking on looking at doing that first with the 3PAR product line. And while I won't give you dates, I can say that there a lot of people aggressively working to get something out. And I think you'll see that spread pretty quickly 'cause the IP that we have and the data scientists and the sort of infrastructure that we've built to perform these analytics is extensible and we're pretty excited about that. >> Excellent! Gavin, thanks very much for coming on the CUBE with us. >> Gavin: Thank you very much. >> It was good to see you, appreciate you coming out. >> Gavin: Thank you. Alright, keep right there everyboday. We'll be back with our next guest shortly. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: "theCUBE" presents HPE Discover 2022. Brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome back to HPE Discover 2022. You're watching "theCUBE's" coverage. This is Day 2, Dave Vellante with John Furrier. Sheila Rohra is here. She's the Senior Vice President and GM of the Data Infrastructure Business at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and of course, the storage division. And Omer Asad. Welcome back to "theCUBE", Omer. Senior Vice President and General Manager for Cloud Data Services, Hewlett Packard Enterprise storage. Guys, thanks for coming on. Good to see you. >> Thank you. Always a pleasure, man. >> Thank you. >> So Sheila, I'll start with you. Explain the difference. The Data Infrastructure Business and then Omer's Cloud Data Services. You first. >> Okay. So Data Infrastructure Business. So I'm responsible for the primary secondary storage. Basically, what you physically store, the data in a box, I actually own that. So I'm going to have Omer explain his business because he can explain it better than me. (laughing) Go ahead. >> So 100% right. So first, data infrastructure platforms, primary secondary storage. And then what I do from a cloud perspective is wrap up those things into offerings, block storage offerings, data protection offerings, and then put them on top of the GreenLake platform, which is the platform that Antonio and Fidelma talked about on main Keynote stage yesterday. That includes multi-tenancy, customer subscription management, sign on management, and then on top of that we build services. Services are cloud-like services, storage services or block service, data protection service, disaster recovery services. Those services are then launched on top of the platform. Some services like data protection services are software only. Some services are software plus hardware. And the hardware on the platform comes along from the primary storage business and we run the control plane for that block service on the GreenLake platform and that's the cloud service. >> So, I just want to clarify. So what we maybe used to know as 3PAR and Nimble and StoreOnce. Those are the products that you're responsible for? >> That is the primary storage part, right? And just to kind of show that, he and I, we do indeed work together. Right. So if you think about the 3PAR, the primary... Sorry, the Primera, the Alletras, the Nimble, right? All that, right? That's the technology that, you know, my team builds. And what Omer does with his magic is that he turns it into HPE GreenLake for storage, right? And to deliver as a service, right? And basically to create a self-service agility for the customer and also to get a very Cloud operational experience for them. >> So if I'm a customer, just so I get this right, if I'm a customer and I want Hybrid, that's what you're delivering as a Cloud service? >> Yes. >> And I don't care where the data is on-premises, in storage, or on Cloud. >> 100%. >> Is that right? >> So the way that would work is, as a customer, you would come along with the partner, because we're 100% partner-led. You'll come to the GreenLake Console. On the GreenLake Console, you will pick one of our services. Could be a data protection service, could be the block storage service. All services are hybrid in nature. Public Cloud is 100% participant in the ecosystem. You'll choose a service. Once you choose a service, you like the rate card for that service. That rate card is just like a hyperscaler rate card. IOPS, Commitment, MINCOMMIT's, whatever. Once you procure that at the price that you like with a partner, you buy the subscription. Then you go to console.greenLake.com, activate your subscription. Once the subscription is activated, if it's a service like block storage, which we talked about yesterday, service will be activated, and our supply chain will send you our platform gear, and that will get activated in your site. Two things, network cable, power cable, dial into the cloud, service gets activated, and you have a cloud control plane. The key difference to remember is that it is cloud-consumption model and cloud-operation model built in together. It is not your traditional as a service, which is just like hardware leasing. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> That's a thing of the past. >> But this answers a question that I had, is how do you transfer or transform from a company that is, you know, selling boxes, of course, most of you are engineers are software engineers, I get that, to one that is selling services. And it sounds like the answer is you've organized, I know it's inside baseball here, but you organize so that you still have, you can build best of breed products and then you can package them into services. >> Omer: 100%. 100%. >> It's separate but complementary organization. >> So the simplest way to look at it would be, we have a platform side at the house that builds the persistence layers, the innovation, the file systems, the speeds and feeds, and then building on top of that, really, really resilient storage services. Then how the customer consumes those storage services, we've got tremendous feedback from our customers, is that the cloud-operational model has won. It's just a very, very simple way to operate it, right? So from a customer's perspective, we have completely abstracted away out hardware, which is in the back. It could be at their own data center, it could be at an MSP, or they could be using a public cloud region. But from an operational perspective, the customer gets a single pane of glass through our service console, whether they're operating stuff on-prem, or they're operating stuff in the public cloud. >> So they get storage no matter what? They want it in the cloud, they got it that way, and if they want it as a service, it just gets shipped. >> 100%. >> They plug it in and it auto configures. >> Omer: It's ready to go. >> That's right. And the key thing is simplicity. We want to take the headache away from our customers, we want our customers to focus on their business outcomes, and their projects, and we're simplifying it through analytics and through this unified cloud platform, right? On like how their data is managed, how they're stored, how they're secured, that's all taken care of in this operational model. >> Okay, so I have a question. So just now the edge, like take me through this. Say I'm a customer, okay I got the data saved on-premise action, cloud, love that. Great, sir. That's a value proposition. Come to HPE because we provide this easily. Yeah. But now at the edge, I want to deploy it out to some edge node. Could be a tower with Telecom, 5G or whatever, I want to box this out there, I want storage. What happens there? Just ship it out there and connects up? Does it work the same way? >> 100%. So from our infrastructure team, you'll consume one or two platforms. You'll consume either the Hyperconverged form factor, SimpliVity, or you might convert, the Converged form factor, which is proliant servers powered by Alletras. Alletra 6Ks. Either of those... But it's very different the way you would procure it. What you would procure from us is an edge service. That edge service will come configured with certain amount of compute, certain amount of storage, and a certain amount of data protection. Once you buy that on a dollars per gig per month basis, whichever rate card you prefer, storage rate card or a VMware rate card, that's all you buy. From that point on, the platform team automatically configures the back-end hardware from that attribute-based ordering and that is shipped out to your edge. Dial in the network cable, dial in the power cable, GreenLake cloud discovers it, and then you start running the- >> Self-service, configure it, it just shows up, plug it in, done. >> Omer: Self-service but partner-led. >> Yeah. >> Because we have preferred pricing for our partners. Our partners would come in, they will configure the subscriptions, and then we activate those customers, and then send out the hardware. So it's like a hyperscaler on-prem at-scale kind of a model. >> Yeah, I like it a lot. >> So you guys are in the data business. You run the data portion of Hewlett Packard Enterprise. I used to call it storage, even if we still call it storage but really, it's evolving into data. So what's your vision for the data business and your customer's data vision, if you will? How are you supporting that? >> Well, I want to kick it off, and then I'm going to have my friend, Omer, chime in. But the key thing is that what the first step is is that we have to create a unified platform, and in this case we're creating a unified cloud platform, right? Where there's a single pane of glass to manage all that data, right? And also leveraging lots of analytics and telemetry data that actually comes from our infosite, right? We use all that, we make it easy for the customer, and all they have to say, and they're basically given the answers to the test. "Hey, you know, you may want to increase your capacity. You may want to tweak your performance here." And all the customers are like, "Yes. No. Yes, no." Basically it, right? Accept and not accept, right? That's actually the easiest way. And again, as I said earlier, this frees up the bandwidth for the IT teams so then they actually focus more on the business side of the house, rather than figuring out how to actually manage every single step of the way of the data. >> Got it. >> So it's exactly what Sheila described, right? The way this strategy manifests itself across an operational roadmap for us is the ability to change from a storage vendor to a data services vendor, right? >> Sheila: Right. >> And then once we start monetizing these data services to our customers through the GreenLake platform, which gives us cloud consumption model and a cloud operational model, and then certain data services come with the platform layer, certain data services are software only. But all the services, all the data services that we provide are hybrid in nature, where we say, when you provision storage, you could provision it on-prem, or you can provision it in a hyperscaler environment. The challenge that most of our customers have come back and told us, is like, data center control planes are getting fragmented. On-premises, I mean there's no secrecy about it, right? VMware is the predominant hypervisor, and as a result of that, vCenter is the predominant configuration layer. Then there is the public cloud side, which is through either Ajour, or GCP, or AWS, being one of the largest ones out there. But when the customer is dealing with data assets, the persistence layer could be anywhere, it could be in AWS region, it could be your own data center, or it could be your MSP. But what this does is it creates an immense amount of fragmentation in the context in which the customers understand the data. Essentially, John, the customers are just trying to answer three questions: What is it that I store? How much of it do I store? Should I even be storing it in the first place? And surprisingly, those three questions just haven't been answered. And we've gotten more and more fragmented. So what we are trying to produce for our customers, is a context to ware data view, which allows the customer to understand structured and unstructured data, and the lineage of how it is stored in the organization. And essentially, the vision is around simplification and context to ware data management. One of the key things that makes that possible, is again, the age old infosite capability that we have continued to hone and develop over time, which is now up to the stage of like 12 trillion data points that are coming into the system that are not corroborated to give that back. >> And of course cost-optimizing it as well. We're up against the clock, but take us through the announcements, what's new from when we sort of last talked? I guess it was in September. >> Omer: Right. >> Right. What's new that's being announced here and, or, you know, GA? >> Right. So three major announcements that came out, because to keep on establishing the context when we were with you last time. So last time we announced GreenLake backup and recovery service. >> John: Right. >> That was VMware backup and recovery as a complete cloud, sort of SaaS control plane. No backup target management, no BDS server management, no catalog management, it's completely a SaaS service. Provide your vCenter address, boom, off you go. We do the backups, agentless, 100% dedup enabled. We have extended that into the public cloud domain. So now, we can back up AWS, EC2, and EBS instances within the same constructs. So a single catalog, single backup policy, single protection framework that protects you both in the cloud and on-prem, no fragmentation, no multiple solutions to deploy. And the second one is we've extended our Hyperconverged service to now be what we call the Hybrid Cloud On-Demand. So basically, you go to GreenLake Console control plane, and from there, you basically just start configuring virtual machines. It supports VMware and AWS at the same time. So you can provision a virtual machine on-prem, or you can provision a virtual machine in the public cloud. >> Got it. >> And, it's the same framework, the same catalog, the same inventory management system across the board. And then, lastly, we extended our block storage service to also become hybrid in nature. >> Got it. >> So you can manage on-prem and AWS, EBS assets as well. >> And Sheila, do you still make product announcements, or does Antonio not allow that? (Omer laughing) >> Well, we make product announcements, and you're going to see our product announcements actually done through the HPE GreenLake for block storage. >> Dave: Oh, okay. >> So our announcements will be coming through that, because we do want to make it as a service. Again, we want to take all of that headache of "What configuration should I buy? How do I actually deploy it? How do I...?" We really want to take that headache away. So you're going to see more feature announcements that's going to come through this. >> So feature acceleration through GreenLake will be exposed? >> Absolutely. >> This is some cool stuff going on behind the scenes. >> Oh, there's a lot good stuff. >> Hardware still matters, you know. >> Hardware still matters. >> Does it still matter? Does hardware matter? >> Hardware still matters, but what matters more is the experience, and that's actually what we want to bring to the customer. (laughing) >> John: That's good. >> Good answer. >> Omer: 100%. (laughing) >> Guys, thanks so much- >> John: Hardware matters. >> For coming on "theCUBE". Good to see you again. >> John: We got it. >> Thanks. >> And hope the experience was good for you Sheila. >> I know, I know. Thank you. >> Omer: Pleasure as always. >> All right, keep it right there. Dave Vellante and John Furrier will be back from HPE Discover 2022. You're watching "theCUBE". (soft music)

(inspiring music) >> Announcer: theCUBE presents HPE Discover 2022. Brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2022, from the Venetian in Las Vegas, the first Discover since 2019. I really think this is my 14th Discover, when you include HP, when you include Europe. And I got to say this Discover, I think has more energy than any one that I've ever seen, about 8,000 people here. Really excited to have one of HPE's longstanding partners, Veeam CTO, Danny Allen is here, joined by David Harvey, Vice President of Strategic Alliances at Veeam. Guys, good to see you again. It was just earlier, let's see, last month, we were together out here. >> Yeah, just a few weeks ago. It's fantastic to be back and what it's telling us, technology industry is coming back. >> And the events business, of course, is coming back, which we love. I think the expectations were cautious. You saw it at VeeamON, a little more than you expected, a lot of great energy. A lot of people, 'cause it was last month, it was their first time out, >> Yes. >> in two years. Here, I think people have started to go out more, but still, an energy that's palpable. >> You can definitely feel it. Last night, I think I went to four consecutive events and everyone's out having those discussions and having conversations, it's good to be back. >> You guys hosted the Storage party last night, which is epic. I left at midnight, I took a picture, it was still packed. I said, okay, time to go, nothing good happens after midnight kids. David, talk about the alliance with HPE, how it's evolved, and where you see it going? >> I appreciate it, and certainly this, as you said, has been a big alliance for us. Over 10 years or so, fantastic integrations across the board. And you touched on 2019 Discover. We launched with GreenLake at that event, we were one of the launch partners, and we've seen fantastic growth. Overall, what we're excited about, is that continuation of the movement of the customer's buying patterns in line with HPE's portfolio and in line with Veeam. We continue to be with all their primary, secondary storage, we continue to be a spearhead position with GreenLake, which we're really excited about. And we're also really excited to hear from HPE, unfortunately under NDA, some of their future stuff they're investing in, which is a really nice invigoration for what they're doing for their portfolio. And we see that being a big deal for us over the next 24 months. >> Your relationship with HPE predates the HP, HPE split. >> Mmm. >> Yes. >> But it was weird, because they had Data Protector, and that was a quasi-competitor, or really not, but it was a competitor, a legacy competitor, of what you guys have, kind of modern data protection I think is the tagline, if I got it right. Post the split, that was an S-curve moment, wasn't it, in terms of the partnership? >> It really was. If you go back 10 years, we did our first integration sending data to StoreOnce and we had some blueprints around that. But now, if you look what we have, we have integrations on the primary side, so, 3PAR, Primera, Nimble, all their top-tier storage, we can manage the snapshots. We have integration on the target side. We integrate with Catalyst in the movement of data and the management of data. And, as David alluded to, we integrate with GreenLake. So, customers who want to take this as a consumption model, we integrate with that. And so it's been, like you said, the strongest relationship that we have on the technology alliance side. >> So, V12, you announced at VeeamON. What does that mean for HPE customers, the relationship? Maybe you guys could both talk about that. >> Technology side, to touch on a few things that we're doing with them, ransomware has been a huge issue. Security's been a big theme, obviously, at the conference, >> Dave: Yeah, you bet. and one of the things we're doing in V12 is adding immutability for both StoreOnce and StoreEver. So, we take the features that our partners have, immutability being big in the security space, and we integrate that fully into the product. So a customer checks a box and says, hey, I want to make sure that the data is secure. >> Yeah, and also, it's another signification about the relationship. Every single release we've done has had HPE at the heart of it, and the same thing is being said with V12. And it shows to our customers, the continual commitment. Relationships come and go. They're hard, and the great news is, 10 years has proven that we get through good times and tricky situations, and we both continue to invest, et cetera. And I think there's a lot of peace of mind and the revenue figures prove that, which is what we're really excited about. >> Yeah I want to come back to that, but just to follow up, Danny, on that immutability, that's a feature that you check? It's service within GreenLake, or within Veeam? How does that all work? >> We have immutability now depending on the target. We introduced the ability to send data, for example, into S3 two years ago, and make it immutable when you send it to an S3 or S3 compatible environment. We added, in Version 11, the ability to take a Linux repository and make it, and harden it, essentially make it immutable. But what we're doing now is taking our partner systems like StoreOnce, like StoreEver, and when we send data there, we take advantage of an API flag or whatever it happens to be, that it makes the data, when it's written to that system, can't be deleted, can't be encrypted. Now, what does that mean for a customer? Well, we do all the hard work in the back end, it's just a check box. They say, I want to make it immutable, and we manage how long it's immutable. Because if you made everything immutable forever, that's hugely expensive, right? So, it's all about, how long is that immutable before you age it out and make sure the new data coming in is immutable. >> Dave: It's like an insurance policy, you have that overlap. >> Yes. >> Right, okay. And then David, you mentioned the revenue, Lou bears that out. I got the IDC guys comin' on later on today. I'll ask 'em about that, if that's their swim lane. But you guys are basically a statistical tie, with Dell for number one? Am I getting that right? And you're growing at a faster rate, I believe, it's hard to tell 'cause I don't think Dell reports on the pace of its growth within data protection. You guys obviously do, but is that right? It's a statistical tie, is it? >> Yeah, hundred percent. >> Yeah, statistical tie for first place, which we're super excited about. When I joined Veeam, I think we were in fifth place, but we've been in the leader's quadrant of the Gartner Magic- >> Cause and effect there or? (panelists laughing) >> No, I don't think so. >> Dave: Ha, I think maybe. >> We've been on a great trajectory. But statistical tie for first place, greatest growth sequentially, and year-over-year, of all of the data protection vendors. And that's a testament not just to the technology that we're doing, but partnerships with HPE, because you never do this, the value of a technology is not that technology alone, it's the value of that technology within the ecosystem. And so that's why we're here at HPE Discover. It's our joint technology solutions that we're delivering. >> What are your thoughts or what are you seeing in the field on As-a-service? Because of course, the messaging is all about As-a-service, you'd think, oh, a hundred percent of everything is going to be As-a-service. A lot of customers, they don't mind CapEx, they got good, balance sheet, and they're like, hey, we'll take care of this, and, we're going to build our own little internal cloud. But, what are you seeing in the market in terms of As-a-service, versus, just traditional licensing models? >> Certainly, there's a mix between the two. What I'd say, is that sources that are already As-a-service, think Microsoft 365, think AWS, Azure, GCP, the cloud providers. There's a natural tendency for the customer to want the data protection As-a-service, as well for those. But if you talk about what's on premises, customers who have big data centers deployed, they're not yet, the pendulum has not shifted for that to be data protection As-a-service. But we were early to this game ourselves. We have 10,000, what we call, Veeam Cloud Service Providers, that are offering data protection As-a-service, whether it be on premises, so they're remotely managing it, or cloud hosted, doing data protection for that. >> So, you don't care. You're providing the technology, and then your customers are actually choosing the delivery model. Is that correct? >> A hundred percent, and if you think about what GreenLake is doing for example, that started off as being a financial model, but now they're getting into that services delivery. And what we want to do is enable them to deliver it, As-a-service, not just the financial model, but the outcome for the customer. And so our technology, it's not just do backup, it's do backup for a multi-tenant, multi-customer environment that does all of the multi-tenancy and billing and charge back as part of that service. >> Okay, so you guys don't report on this, but I'm going to ask the question anyway. You're number one now, let's call you, let's declare number one, 'cause we're well past that last reporting and you're growin' faster. So go another quarter, you're now number one, so you're the largest. Do you spend more on R&D in data protection than any other company? >> Yes, I'm quite certain that we do. Now, we have an unfair advantage because we have 450,000 customers. I don't think there's any other data protection company out there, the size and scope and scale, that we have. But we've been expanding, our largest R&D operation center's in Prague, it's in Czech Republic, but we've been expanding that. Last year it grew 40% year on year in R&D, so big investment in that space. You can see this just through our product space. Five years ago, we did data protection of VMware only, and now we do all the virtual environments, all the physical environments, all the major cloud environments, Kubernetes, Microsoft 365, we're launching Salesforce. We announced that at VeeamON last month and it will be coming out in Q3. All of that is coming from our R&D investments. >> A lot of people expect that when a company like Insight, a PE company, purchases a company like Veeam, that one of the things they'll dial down is R&D. That did not happen in this case. >> No, they very much treat us as a growth company. We had 22% year-over-year growth in 2020, and 25% year-over-year last year. The growth has been tremendous, they continue to give us the freedom. Now, I expect they'll want returns like that continuously, but we have been delivering, they have been investing. >> One of my favorite conversations of the year was our supercloud conversation, which was awesome, thank you for doing that with me. But that's clearly an area of focus, what we call supercloud, and you don't use that term, I know, you do sometimes, but it's not your marketing, I get that. But that is an R&D intensive effort, is it not? To create that common experience. And you see HPE, attempting to do that as well, across all these different estates. >> A hundred percent. We focus on three things, I always say, our differentiators, simplicity, flexibility, and reliability. Making it simple for the customers is not an easy thing to do. Making that checkbox for immutability? We have to do a lot behind the scenes to make it simple. Same thing on flexibility. We don't care if they're using 3PAR, Primera, Nimble, whatever you want to choose as the primary storage, we will take that out of your hands and make it really easy. You mentioned supercloud. We don't care what the cloud infrastructure, it can be on GreenLake, it can be on AWS, can be on Azure, it can be on GCP, it can be on IBM cloud. It is a lot of effort on our part to abstract the cloud infrastructure, but we do that on behalf of our customers to take away that complexity, it's part of our platform. >> Quick follow-up, and then I want to ask a question of David. I like talking to you guys because you don't care where it is, right? You're truly agnostic to it all. I'm trying to figure out this repatriation thing, cause I hear a lot of hey, Dave, you should look into repatriation that's happened all over the place, and I see pockets of it. What are you seeing in terms of repatriation? Have customers over-rotated to the cloud and now they're pullin' back a little bit? Or is it, as I'm claiming, in pockets? What's your visibility on that? >> Three things I see happening. There's the customers who lifted up their data center, moved it into the cloud and they get the first bill. >> (chuckling) Okay. >> And they will repatriate, there's no question. If I talk to those customers who simply lifted up and moved it over because the CIO told them to, they're moving it back on premises. But a second thing that we see is people moving it over, with tweaks. So they'll take their SQL server database and they'll move it into RDS, they'll change some things. And then you have people who are building cloud-native, they're never coming back on premises, they are building it for the cloud environment. So, we see all three of those. We only really see repatriation on that first scenario, when they get that first bill. >> And when you look at the numbers, I think it gets lost, 'cause you see the cloud is growing so fast. So David, what are the conversations like? You had several events last night, The Veeam party, slash Storage party, from HPE. What are you hearing from your alliance partners and the customers at the event. >> I think Danny touched on that point, it's about philosophy of evolution. And I think at the end of the day, whether we're seeing it with our GSI alliances we've got out there, or with the big enterprise conversations we're having with HPE, it's about understanding which workloads they want to move. In our mind, the customers are getting much smarter in making that decision, rather than experimenting. They're really taking a really solid look. And the work we're doing with the GSIs on workplace modernization, data center transformation, they're really having that investment work up front on the workloads, to be able to say, this works for me, for my personality and my company. And so, to the point about movement, it's more about decisive decision at the start, and not feeling like the remit is, I have to do one thing or another, it's about looking at that workflow position. And that's what we've seen with the revenue part as well. We've seen our movement to GreenLake tremendously grow in the last 18 months to two years. And from our GSI work as well, we're seeing the types of conversations really focus on that workload, compared to, hey, I just need a backup solution, and that's really exciting. >> Are you having specific conversations about security, or is it a data protection conversation still, (David chuckles) that's an adjacency to security? >> That's a great question. And I think it's a complex one, because if you come to a company like Veeam, we are there, and you touched on it before, we provide a solution when something has happened with security. We're not doing intrusion detection, we're not doing that barrier position at the end of it, but it's part of an end-to-end assumption. And I don't think that at this particular point, I started in security with RSA and Check Point, it was about layers of protection. Now it's layers of protection, and the inevitability that at some point something will happen, so about the recovery. So the exciting conversations we're having, especially with the big enterprises, is not about the fear factor, it's about, at some point something's going to occur. Speed of recovery is the conversation. And so for us, and your question is, are they talking to us about security, or more, the continuity position? And that's where the synergy's getting a lot simpler, rather than a hard demark between security and backup. >> Yeah, when you look at the stock market, everything's been hit, but security, with the exception of Okta, 'cause it got that weird benign hack, but security, generally, is an area that CIOs have said, hey, we can't really dial that back. We can maybe, some other discretionary stuff, we'll steal and prioritize. But security seems to be, and I think data protection is now part of that discussion. You're not a security company. We've seen some of your competitors actually pivot to become security companies. You're not doing that, but it's very clearly an adjacency, don't you think? >> It's an adjacency, and it's a new conversation that we're having with the Chief Information Security Officer. I had a meeting an hour ago with a customer who was hit by ransomware, and they got the call at 2:00 AM in the morning, after the ransomware they recovered their entire portfolio within 36 hours, from backups. Didn't even contact Veeam, I found out during this meeting. But that is clearly something that the Chief Information Security Officer wants to know about. It's part of his purview, is the recovery of that data. >> And they didn't pay the ransom? >> And they did not pay the ransom, not a penny. >> Ahh, we love those stories. Guys, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Congratulations on all the success. Love when you guys come on, and it was such a fun event at VeeamON. Great event here, and your presence is, was seen. The Veeam green is everywhere, so appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Dave. >> Okay, and thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for John Furrier and Lisa Martin. We'll be back right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2022, from Las Vegas. (inspiring music)

>>Welcome back to HPD discovered 2021 the virtual version of the show. My name is Dave valentin. You're watching the cube we're here with David Harvey is the vice president of strategic alliances at VM. David. Good to see you. How you doing? >>I'm well thanks. David yourself you've been good, >>yep dude, great, thank you. Hey, you've heard the term follow the money, we're going to follow the data. How about so HP and Wien? You're celebrating a 10 year milestone in your alliance. That's a lot of good parties at at the HP discover shows and uh of course we miss miss being face to face this year but next year we'll be back rocking but uh talk a little bit about what that milestone means to you. >>Yeah, Thanks. Dave. And you're right. It is a milestone. I mean when >>you look at alliances or >>Partnerships overall, it's crazy that you can maintain this depth of partnership is depth of relationship and this success for 10 years. I mean H. P. Was our number one alliance that we started working with when we started being X number of years ago. Um and the reason for that was that we really came together from the very start with a philosophy about the approach we wanted to provide to the customer and also the synergy of technology um and 10 years is a long time. I mean, how many alliances that you've seen in the industry Um that have managed to maintain for 10 years and we're stronger than ever as we come into this point and that's amazing. So from that point of view we're really excited for this 10 year milestone. We're really pleased at the investment from both sides as maintained and grown through that time period. Um and as you said, it's a shame we're not doing this in person, but this is a great event for us and that's why we're so proud to be top sponsor this year and supporting the charge for discovered. Well, >>congratulations on that milestone immunity. So often when I talk to folks that are in your role, they'll complain and yeah, we do it. We have a lot of numbers, but not a lot of marijuana and not a lot of fruitful partnerships and they'll do barney deals. I love you, you love me, you will do a press release, but it's not driving and I happen to know that the HPV in relationship is very productive and I think, you know, one of the key moves when when HP split itself into it took its, you know, competitive data protective product that sold that off and then that just opened up a whole new opportunity for the relationships and was a game changer. So but looking back, what do you think was the meaningful sort of investment that the alliance has really made together? >>Yeah, great question. >>And it's a really >>cheesy answer, but it's, it's one of those very rare scenarios, where is the truth and his death? You know, the depth of discussion from the very start was really what >>Built that foundation, we were the launch back up part of the three >>part, um, and every release team has done since then has had a key HP component to it. And more importantly, as you said, as HP has evolved through that period, the divestiture and >>the overall movement of their portfolio. >>We've continued to listen to each other on what >>is important to both parties. But while that's great from the relationship and the alliance, >>the one thing that's never changed is the response of the customer to saying, not only have you integrated together on technology, you've unified your message, you provide a supply chain that is meaningful to my business by simplifying and providing value and you continue to evolve. You continue to adjust and move as you've gone through the time period and our needs have changed. I mean we started with servers, we worked with storage, we're with green lake esmeralda like all across that portfolio. We found a way to continue to listen to each other and what's important and that's been q. >>So what are the waves that you're, you're surfing here, You put on the binoculars and look forward. What are going to be the most important areas that you guys invest in and focus on in the future? >>Yeah, great question. I mean we're focused on three things for the, for the medium to short term here and looking at there is rapidly recovering your data. You know, the news at the moment is exploding related to issues companies are having, which is so unfortunate and recovering data quickly. It's an economic component is not just about the ability to do it fast, it's about the fact that the quicker you bring data back in this circumstance where you have to, the better it is for your bottom line. We also simplify that data protection and the reason for that is that if you look at the diversity of the portfolio HP has, you want unification regardless of what products you're buying from HP, you want to make sure that you're working with solutions that work with all of those different parts of it. As I mentioned, service storage as moral Green Lake et cetera. And so that simplification of data protection is huge. And finally it's getting your data protection as a service. We've been working with Green Lake for a good number of years now and it's one of the fastest growing areas of our partnership. But if you bring those three things together, the customers are deciding that modern data protection needs that they have, they're looking at the hybrid world, they're looking at all parts of the portfolio from the thought leaders, they work with specifically HP and they're wanting to make sure that they've got that unification moving >>forward and that whatever >>decisions they make with the infrastructure, the underlying protection of their data continues to be a core component that they can evolve with as they move their needs forward. >>You talk about that speedy recovery, there's so much in the news today, we're seeing all this, all this ransomware, I mean it's bringing down organizations, it's affecting supply chains all over the world very concerning. And there's two dimensions here. One is the speed to recover. We can all relate, you know, when your laptop freezes like, oh, I gotta reboot and it takes five minutes and you're frustrated. Imagine your whole business, you know, it takes half a day to recover. That's huge. The other dimension, of course, is how much data you lose in that recovery and you try to compress that arpeggio right is to so as tight as possible. And that's the other sort of value that that customers look for from a combination of HP envy them. So, but I want to ask you so we're here at HP covering HP discover you can't talk about hB without getting a kool aid injection of Green Lake and as a service. And we're how are you guys sort of addressing those as a service needs for today's customers? >>Yeah, it's a great question. And by the way, kudos, you can be a salesperson force with our pos and all those keywords. I love it. But what I would say overall is that when you look at the changing way customers are spending, um it depends on where they're structuring their financial desires, whether it's the Capex world, the optics world etcetera. And Green Led by its nature allows you to look at having the control of a physical component. But having the economic structure of in some respects pay as you go when you look at it in that component. And so you're avoiding that capital investment concern. But you're getting the power and the strength of the management component as well. And that's what's really important. I mean when you look at overall movement. S you did a really interesting report recently and they're saying that spending on data center protection is gonna grow 50% this year in 2021. Looking at improving that level of key component for their data centers as they go through that modernization and so from that point of view, what we're seeing and this is applicable for HP more than anybody else. Is that the speed that they came out with the Green Lake a number of years ago allowed customers, especially the big enterprises, we're having a massive amount of success together, enabled them to decide the economic buying model that they wanted and to combine that with the best of breed service and management and control. So from our point of view, that's something we've been investing within a long period of time now, not only on the solutions but also on how we go to market together. Our field team is working very closely with their field team within Green Lake to be there so that the customer can utilize it as a tool and not feel like they're having a different conversation because we're so baked in with the rest of the organization. So from our point of view, Green like his key to how things are moving forward and other things that the storage departments doing as well as they look at some of their >>new >>ways with their announcements we've, they've recently made with buying down on demand and new products they're having. So it's allowing the customer to have that choice and from us, it forms a core component of how we're working together. However you >>decide you want to consume the HP >>portfolio. You should have the ability for us to seamlessly work with it. And to your point, that's why that growth rate on our oi but more importantly on the revenue and the amount of growth of our customers year over year have really embraced that synchronization together. >>David, I think of your thoughts on containers. Generally. I want to I want to talk about the casting acquisition specifically but I want to ask about it in the context of the two things. One is just kind of the overall where you see that going and and how you're working with H. P. E. On that. But the other is as it relates to two of the most vexing problems for I. T. Folks in the past have been been security and data protection and their their their adjacency is you're not a security company but it's a kind of a cousin if you will. And and both of those areas have always been an afterthought. After you get snake bitten, you close the barn door kind of thing and it's a bolt on. Okay. I got my application it's all hard and I got my database and ready to go oh hey how do we back this thing up as an afterthought when I think containers and and and I think kubernetes I think developers I think infrastructure as code and now you're designing in security and data protection focusing on the ladder obviously how does the cast and acquisition and what H. P. S doing on containers fit into that context and how do you see it evolving overall. >>Yeah that's a great question. And there's two pastoring. I mean if you look at the way that HP moves to market and you look at the themes and the focus they've had now for the last three plus years with regard to that data center transformation and the movement and modernization of it. This has been a part of it but as you exactly said this is a new type of context point has come in. Obviously we acquired casting as you alluded to early in 2020 because for us we absolutely believe that this is a core component righty and you raised the point perfectly there Dave it used to be a component after you're snakebit, it's not today. I mean you alluded to it with regard to what's going on in the news over the last few weeks or so. It's nowhere near an afterthought Now it's a component that's built in from the start and that's why when you look at some of those studies about the spend in this area overall it isn't an afterthought anymore but I agree with you, it was when you look back a number of years and so for us casting build a very key area of our portfolio but it also allowed us with HP to double down on another area of investment for themselves. Esmeralda is a key play for HP moving forward. You can get casting on the Admiral marketplace and that's another example, as I was saying, it doesn't matter how you keep evolving your relationship with HP, how you keep drawing down from the portfolio, you want to make sure that the data protection, you've got the simplified data protection across all of these areas, is there from the start? And what we're finding is with Greenfield sites with new applications with new deployments where containers kubernetes really comes into play. They are looking to buy it together at the start so that they can focus on learning, acquiring deploying and really maximizing the benefit of kubernetes and not worry about that snakebite component you talked about. So for us, you know, it supports our portfolio and it allows us to stay with HP as they continue to evolve their strategy. >>That SG Stat of 50% growth in data protection is pretty amazing and it's funny, I think back to the insight acquisition of'em and you know, conventional wisdom would have said, oh wow, what a bummer. They bought this thing right before a global pandemic, in an economic downturn, it's but in this, in your businesses like real estate with pre pandemic post pandemic evaluation should be skyrocketing is is a function of of the heightened focus on digital and security and data protection. So it's really an exciting time. Um if I were to ask you this question 10 years ago, where where hp envy emceeing joint success in the marketplace, it would have been, well of course virtualization, it's all the rage. Where are you seeing success today? >>And that's a great question and it's >>interesting you talk about it with the pandemic. >>I'll be honest, the >>last recession us had, I was in the digital messaging market and at that >>point when economies get tight, everybody invest >>in cheaper types of marketing, which is digital messaging. Now, we've got a pandemic and guess what, everybody's looking at this area of the market again with protection. And I think to your point, it's a great question. What we're finding is the word hybrid and it's it's a well overplayed term, but it's reality of the scenario. You know, we came through and started our journey of being here in the virtual world, but we moved into the physical and that's where we've been having so much success with HP as well. And now as we move towards that cloud world, um and to a degree, the application world with Office 365 etcetera. What you're seeing is that hybrid me, we're seeing that the large enterprises that have relied on HP for so many years are also looking for that ubiquitous data protection layer >>and because we >>have it so >>well baked into all the >>different parts of the portfolio, it's a seamless ability to just continue to expand the utilization of the portfolio. So from our point of view, we're seeing fantastic enterprise success. We're seeing it in some of these verticals >>like medical, like >>financial, the big corporate pillars of society is related to the economic and industrial models. We're seeing those areas come on board, but we're also seeing, people will look at what I would classify some of the Greenfield projects and that's a different viewpoint because if you look back at the history of HP as well, they were fantastic >>provider for the >>foundation of the core business. Now, what we're finding is that coming to HP envy and saying, Hey, new areas Greenfield want to start fresh with a new approach, less of the legacy concern I've had before. How can we look at these new projects I'm working on? So we're seeing in the enterprise, we're seeing in what I would classify as traditional type of verticals and now we're starting to see that acceleration in some of these Greenfield projects, which is key. And that's something we've really, really enjoyed. And last part I'd say on that one as well is from a geographic basis. We are seeing >>all of our regions come up. Um and the reason why >>that's important is sometimes you see alliances that have success in one market or one area, we're seeing the year >>over year growth in >>a mere be faster than we've ever seen. We're seeing are America's growth growth year over year and Asia is continuing to explode for us together. And so from that point of view, I think what that's >>telling us is that the customers resonate on what we're producing together. And so from >>that point of view we're very >>ubiquitous in our level of value to customers and we're hoping to carry that on moving >>forward. Well it's >>two trusted brands. Obviously, you know the Hewlett Packard Enterprise name and that stands out and is no longer a start up with a funny name is You've proven in the marketplace, you just had a major release. I think it was V- 11. I'm not great the greatest products but um earlier this year, wondering how that impacted the alliance. Was that fit? >>Yeah. Great question. And to your point, some people still have trouble with the name but overall you're right, we do tend to find that we're in a good spot nowadays with regards to recognition. And I D. C just >>released some >>fantastic statistics on growth and another record breaking year for being both from the sequential growth and the year over year growth For the second half of 2020. Moving us up into the number two position for the first time, which again is a testament to the success were also having with hp and when you look at what happened on V 11, because as I mentioned at the start of this discussion, every one of our major releases has had HPV baked into it. And V 11 was a big release for us. There was a lot of pent up development work we were trying to get done and what we focused on with this again, especially for the enterprise, was looking at the HP portfolio and looking at faster speeds, faster speeds, have an economic value. We increased our speed and performance with HP Primera. We increase it with HP Nimble. We also made a really significant when we're working with HB store. Once we did a lot of evolution on that for a huge space savings which together really values the customer and then finally where we've also found the customers asked for a lot of development from us together is consolidated with an all in one backup type of approach with the HP Apollo series. So from that point of view, we focused on the experience of the customer because the integrations are so solid. We're now fine tuning to increase that ri for the customer and V 11 was a big component of that. >>What I love about Wien David. So I used to be an I. D. C. For years and you just mentioned that the study that came out and you're number two and I've been talking a lot of your executives recently, you've, you've thrown out that stand a lot number two. Number two. But, but when I was about to see everybody wanted to be number one at something. So you could say, oh, hey, we're number one backup company with the green logo. Hey, we're number one, but you're not doing that. And I'm joking about the green logo, but you actually are the number one. I think I'm correct in saying this, the number one pure play and back up in data protection. And you don't, you don't stand up on that mantle. And I was asking some executives why? And you're like, well, no, because we want to be number one, that's what, that's our objective. You know, we're not going to claim number one now until we get the number one will claim real number one. So I like that about you guys, you, you set the mark, the mark high. But so I love that. Um, >>I appreciate I have >>how should people be thinking about the future of your relationship with H. P. E. You know, the rest of this year and beyond? >>Yeah, great question. And I do really do appreciate that comment because it's an easy one to sort of pick up on it. And it comes down to the attitude. It comes down to our attitude with regards to there's nothing wrong with fight. There's nothing wrong with making sure that you continue to have a north star that you never want to stop getting too. And I think that's a testament to the development of the products and, and overall our attitude to working in the field and working with our alliances And when you look about, when you ask the question, excuse me Dave about, you know, where do we see the HP envy moving forward, >>consistency, consistency >>Is key for us for 10 years, we've been consistent in providing value And we want to continue doing that for another 10 years moving forward. And as we evolve our portfolio and you look at our Act two and as you talked about some of the things you've talked to, other executives about when you look at, we're moving forward, we're doing that in conjunction and we believe as you move forward with regard to some of the things HPR Do we want that consistency of integration? We want that consistency of experience to the customer. We want that consistency of listening and developing our engineering resources together to address that need. And again, it sounds like a really obvious answer and it is, but the difference on the back of this one, to be honest with you, Davis, we proved this again and again and again. And as you look at the Truman data protection solution and you do it in conjunction with HP, it's one of those things where we're so proud to make sure we keep working hard together and pushing each other to be better for our customers, that we're really excited about how it moves forwards. Were also, and again, we're not going into any juicy secrets here, but I wouldn't be surprised if V 12 that comes here in in the future also has another little nice street related to HPV as well. So from that point of view, um, you should have consistency, you should have trust and you should be excited about the fact that the investment and the joint alliance is stronger than it's ever been. >>Well, you guys are setting the marks. Uh, certainly the competitive landscape gets tougher and tougher, but you guys are are leading, you're moving fast, you get a great product to move at the speed, the speed you're, you are and growing at the pace you are for a billion dollar company is impressive. So congratulations on that and you're not done yet. So thanks >>for, thanks for that. We're excited about discover here. This is again, another, I think this is almost the ninth plus year. We've been been a strong sponsor of it. We're excited about H. P. S future as well here together. Um, >>and hey, we do this together. So we're great to see >>it moving forwards. >>David, Great to see you again. Thanks so much. >>Thanks so much. Dave as always appreciate the time. >>Thank you for being with us for hp. You discover 2021, the virtual edition. You're watching the Cube, the leader in digital tech coverage. Mhm. Mhm

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante recent survey data from etr shows that enterprise tech spending is tracking with projected u.s gdp growth at six to seven percent this year many markers continue to point the way to a strong recovery including hiring trends and the loosening of frozen it project budgets however skills shortages are blocking progress at some companies which bodes well for an increased reliance on external i.t services moreover while there's much to talk about well there's much talk about the rotation out of work from home plays and stocks such as video conferencing vdi and other remote worker tech we see organizations still trying to figure out the ideal balance between funding headquarter investments that have been neglected and getting hybrid work right in particular the talent gap combined with a digital mandate means companies face some tough decisions as to how to fund the future while serving existing customers and transforming culturally hello everyone and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we welcome back eric porter bradley of etr who will share fresh data perspectives and insights from the latest survey data eric great to see you welcome thank you very much dave always good to see you and happy to be on the show again okay we're going to share some macro data and then we're going to dig into some highlights from etr's most recent march covid survey and also the latest april data so eric the first chart that we want to show it shows cio and it buyer responses to expected i.t spend for each quarter of 2021 versus 2020. and you can see here a steady quarterly improvement eric what are the key takeaways from your perspective sure well first of all for everyone out there this particular survey had a record-setting number of uh participation we had uh 1 500 i.t decision makers participate and we had over half of the fortune 500 and over a fifth of the global 1000. so it was a really good survey this is the seventh iteration of the covet impact survey specifically and this is going to transition to an over large macro survey going forward so we could continue it and you're 100 right what we've been tracking here since uh march of last year was how is spending being impacted because of covid where is it shifting and what we're seeing now finally is that there is a real re-acceleration in spend i know we've been a little bit more cautious than some of the other peers out there that just early on slapped an eight or a nine percent number but what we're seeing is right now it's at a midpoint of over six uh about six point seven percent and that is accelerating so uh we are still hopeful that that will continue uh really that spending is going to be in the second half of the year as you can see on the left part of this chart that we're looking at uh it was about 1.7 versus 3 for q1 spending year over year so that is starting to accelerate through the back half you know i think it's prudent to be be cautious relative because normally you'd say okay tech is going to grow a couple of points higher than gdp but it's it's really so hard to predict this year okay the next chart is here that we want to show you is we ask respondents to indicate what strategies they're employing in the short term as a result of coronavirus and you can see a few things that i'll call out and then i'll ask eric to chime in first there's been no meaningful change of course no surprise in tactics like remote work and halting travel however we're seeing very positive trends in other areas trending downward like hiring freezes and freezing i.t deployments downward trend in layoffs and we also see an increase in the acceleration of new i.t deployments and in hiring eric what are your key takeaways well first of all i think it's important to point out here that uh we're also capturing that people believe remote work productivity is still increasing now the trajectory might be coming down a little bit but that is really key i think to the backdrop of what's happening here so people have a perception that productivity of remote work is better than hybrid work and that's from the i.t decision makers themselves um but what we're seeing here is that uh most importantly these organizations are citing plans to increase hiring and that's something that i think is really important to point out it's showing a real thawing and to your point in right in the beginning of the intro uh we are seeing deployments stabilize versus prior survey levels which means early on they had no plans to launch new tech deployments then they said nope we're going to start and now that's stalling and i think it's exactly right what you said is there's an i.t skills shortage so people want to continue to do i.t deployments because they have to support work from home and a hybrid back return to the office but they just don't have the skills to do so and i think that's really probably the most important takeaway from this chart um is that stalling and to really ask why it's stalling yeah so we're going to get into that for sure and and i think that's a really key point is that that that accelerating it deployments is some it looks like it's hit a wall in the survey and so but before before we get deep into the skills let's let's take a look at this next chart and we're asking people here how a return to the new normal if you will and back to offices is going to change spending with on-prem architectures and applications and so the first two bars they're cloud-friendly if you add them up at 63 percent of the respondents say that either they'll stay in the cloud for the most part or they're going to lower the on-prem spend when they go back to the office the next three bars are on-prem friendly if you add those up as 29 percent of the respondents say their on-prem spend is going to bounce back to pre-covert levels or actually increase and of course 12 percent of that number by the way say they they've never altered their on-prem spend so eric no surprise but this bodes well for cloud but but it it isn't it also a positive for on-prem this we've had this dual funding premise meaning cloud continues to grow but neglected data center spend also gets a boost what's your thoughts you know really it's interesting it's people are spending on all fronts you and i were talking in a prep it's like you know we're we're in battle and i've got naval i've got you know air i've got land uh i've got to spend on cloud and digital transformation but i also have to spend for on-prem uh the hybrid work is here and it needs to be supported so this spending is going to increase you know when you look at this chart you're going to see though that roughly 36 percent of all respondents say that their spending is going to remain mostly on cloud so this you know that is still the clear direction uh digital transformation is still happening covid accelerated it greatly um you know you and i as journalists and researchers already know this is where the puck is going uh but spend has always lagged a little bit behind because it just takes some time to get there you know inversely 27 said that their on-prem spending will decrease so when you look at those two i still think that the trend is the friend for cloud spending uh even though yes they do have to continue spending on hybrid some of it's been neglected there are refresh cycles coming up so overall it just points to more and more spending right now it really does seem to be a very strong backdrop for it growth so i want to talk a little bit about the etr taxonomy before we bring up the next chart we get a lot of questions about this and of course when you do a massive survey like you're doing you have to have consistency for time series so you have to really think through what that what the buckets look like if you will so this next chart takes a look at the etr taxonomy and it breaks it down into simple to understand terms so the green is the portion of spending on a vendor's tech within a category that is accelerating and the red is the portion that is decelerating so eric what are the key messages in this data well first of all dave thank you so much for pointing that out we used to do uh just what we call a next a net score it's a proprietary formula that we use to determine the overall velocity of spending some people found it confusing um our data scientists decided to break this sector breakdown into what you said which is really more of a mode analysis in that sector how many of the vendors are increasing versus decreasing so again i just appreciate you bringing that up and allowing us to explain the the the reasoning behind our analysis there but what we're seeing here uh goes back to something you and i did last year when we did our predictions and that was that it services and consulting was going to have a true rebound in 2021 and that's what this is showing right here so in this chart you're going to see that consulting and services are really continuing their recovery uh 2020 had a lot of declines and they have the biggest sector over year-over-year acceleration sector-wise the other thing to point out in this which we'll get to again later is that the inverse analysis is true for video conferencing uh we will get to that so i'm going to leave a little bit of ammunition behind for that one but what we're seeing here is it consulting services being the real favorable and video conferencing uh having a little bit more trouble great okay and then let's let's take a look at that services piece and this next chart really is a drill down into that space and emphasizes eric what you were just talking about and we saw this in ibm's earnings where still more than 60 percent of ibm's business comes from services and the company beat earnings you know in part due to services outperforming expectations i think it had a somewhat easier compare and some of this pen-up demand that we've been talking about bodes well for ibm and in other services companies it's not just ibm right eric no it's not but again i'm going to point out that you and i did point out ibm in our in our predictions one we did in late december so it is nice to see one of the reasons we don't have a more favorable rating on ibm at the moment is because they are in the the process of spinning out uh this large unit and so there's a little bit of you know corporate action there that keeps us off on the sideline but i would also want to point out here uh tata infosys and cognizant because they're seeing year-over-year acceleration in both it consulting and outsourced i t services so we break those down separately and those are the three names that are seeing acceleration in both of those so again a tata emphasis and cognizant are all looking pretty well positioned as well so we've been talking a little bit about this skill shortage and this is what's i think so hard for for forecasters um is that you know on the one hand there's a lot of pent up demand you know it's like scott gottlieb said it's like woodstock coming out of the covid uh but on the other hand if you have a talent gap you've got to rely on external services so there's a learning curve there's a ramp up it's an external company and so it takes time to put those together so so this data that we're going to show you next uh is is really important in my view and ties what we're saying we're saying at the top it asks respondents to comment on their staffing plans the light blue is we're increasing staff the gray is no change in the magenta or whatever whatever color that is that sort of purplish color anyway that color is is decreasing and the picture is very positive across the board full-time staff offshoring contract employees outsourced professional services all up trending upwards and this eric is more evidence of the services bounce back yeah it certainly is david and what happened is when we caught this trend we decided to go one level deeper and say all right we're seeing this but we need to know why and that's what we always try to do here data will tell you what's happening it doesn't always tell you why and that's one of the things that etr really tries to dig in with through the insights interviews panels and also going direct with these more custom survey questions uh so in this instance i think the real takeaway is that 30 of the respondents said that their outsourced and managed services are going to increase over the next three months that's really powerful that's a large portion of organizations in a very short time period so we're capturing that this acceleration is happening right now and it will be happening in real time and i don't see it slowing down you and i are speaking about we have to you know increase cloud spend we have to increase hybrid spend there are refresh cycles coming up and there's just a real skill shortage so this is a long-term setup that bodes very well for it services and consulting you know eric when i came out of college i somebody told me read read read read as much as you can and and so i would and they said read the wall street journal every day and i so i did it and i would read the tech magazines and back then it was all paper and what happens is you begin to connect the dots and so the reason i bring that up is because i've now been had taken a bath in the etr data for the better part of two years and i'm beginning to be able to connect the dots you know the data is not always predictive but many many times it is and so this next data gets into the fun stuff where we name names a lot of times people don't like it because the marketing people and organizations say well the data's wrong of course that's the first thing they do is attack the data but you and i know we've made some really great calls work from home for sure you're talking about the services bounce back uh we certainly saw the rise of crowdstrike octa zscaler well before people were talking about that same thing with video conferencing and so so anyway this is the fun stuff and it looks at positive versus negative sentiment on on companies so first how does etr derive this data and how should we interpret it and what are some of your takeaways [Music] sure first of all how we derive the data or systematic um survey responses that we do on a quarterly basis and we standardize those responses to allow for time series analysis so we can do trend analysis as well we do find that our data because it's talking about forward-looking spending intentions is really more predictive because we're talking about things that might be happening six months three months in the future not things that a lot of other competitors and research peers are looking at things that already happened uh they're looking in the past etr really likes to look into the future and our surveys are set up to do so so thank you for that question it's an enjoyable lead-in but to get to the fun stuff like you said uh what we do here is we put ratings on the data sets i do want to put the caveat out there that our spending intentions really only captures top-line revenue it is not indicative of profit margin or any other line items so this is only going to be viewed as what we are rating the data set itself not the company um you know that's not what we're in the game of doing so i think that's very important for the marketing and the vendors out there themselves when they when they take a look at this we're just talking about what we can control which is our data we're going to talk about a few of the names here on this highlighted vendors list one we're going to go back to that you and i spoke about i guess about six months ago or maybe even earlier which was the observability space um you and i were noticing that it was getting very crowded a lot of new entrants um there was a lot of acquisition from more of the legacy or standard entrance players in the space and that is continuing so i think in a minute we're going to move into that observability space but what we're seeing there is that it's becoming incredibly crowded and we're possibly seeing signs of them cannibalizing each other uh we're also going to move on a little bit into video conferencing where we're capturing some spend deceleration and then ultimately we're going to get into a little bit of a storage refresh cycle and talk about that but yeah these are the highlighted vendors for april um we usually do this once a quarter and they do change based on the data but they're not usually whipsawed around the data doesn't move that quickly yeah so you can see the some of the big names on the left-hand side some of the sas companies that have momentum obviously servicenow has been doing very very well we've talked a lot about snowflake octa crowdstrike z scalar in all very positive as well as you know several others i i guess i'd add some some things i mean i think if thinking about the next decade it's it's cloud which is not going to be like the same cloud as last decade a lot of machine learning and deep learning and ai and the cloud is extending to the edge in the data center data obviously very important data is decentralized and distributed so data architectures are changing a lot of opportunities to connect across clouds and actually create abstraction layers and then something that we've been covering a lot is processor performance is actually accelerating relative to moore's law it's probably instead of doubling every two years it's quadrupling every two years and so that is a huge factor especially as it relates to powering ai and ai inferencing at the edge this is a whole new territory custom silicon is is really becoming in vogue uh and so we're something that we're watching very very closely yeah i completely completely agree on that and i do think that the the next version of cloud will be very different another thing to point out on that too is you can't do anything that you're talking about without collecting the data and and organizations are extremely serious about that now it seems it doesn't matter what industry they're in every company is a data company and that also bodes well for the storage call we do believe that there is going to just be a huge increase in the need for storage um and yes hopefully that'll become portable across multi-cloud and hybrid as well now as eric said the the etr data's it's it's really focused on that top line spend so if you look at the uh on on the right side of that chart you saw you know netapp was kind of negative was very negative right but there's a company that's in in transformation now they've lowered expectations and they've recently beat expectations that's why the stock has been doing better but but at the macro from a spending standpoint it's still challenged so you have big footprint companies like netapp and oracle is another one oracle's stock is at an all-time high but the spending relative to sort of previous cycles or relative to you know like for instance snowflake much much smaller not as high growth but they're managing expectations they're managing their transition they're managing profitability zoom is another one zoom looking looking negative but you know zoom's got to use its market cap now to to transform and increase its tam uh and then splunk is another one we're going to talk about splunk is in transition it acquired signal fx it just brought on this week teresa carlson who was the head of aws public sector she's the president and head of sales so they've got a go to market challenge and they brought in teresa carlson to really solve that but but splunk has been trending downward we called that you know several quarters ago eric and so i want to bring up the data on splunk and this is splunk eric in analytics and it's not trending in the right direction the green is accelerating span the red is and the bars is decelerating spend the top blue line is spending velocity or net score and the yellow line is market share or pervasiveness in the data set your thoughts yeah first i want to go back is a great point dave about our data versus a disconnect from an equity analysis perspective i used to be an equity analyst that is not what we do here and you you may the main word you said is expectations right stocks will trade on how they do compared to the expectations that are set uh whether that's buy side expectations sell side expectations or management's guidance themselves we have no business in tracking any of that what we are talking about is top line acceleration or deceleration so uh that was a great point to make and i do think it's an important one for all of our listeners out there now uh to move to splunk yes i've been capturing a lot of negative commentary on splunk even before the data turned so this has been about a year-long uh you know our analysis and review on this name and i'm dating myself here but i know you and i are both rock and roll fans so i'm gonna point out a led zeppelin song and movie and say that the song remains the same for splunk we are just seeing uh you know recent spending intentions are taking yet another step down both from prior survey levels from year ago levels uh this we're looking at in the analytics sector and spending intentions are decelerating across every single customer group if we went to one of our other slide analysis um on the etr plus platform and you do by customer sub sample in analytics it's dropping in every single vertical it doesn't matter which one uh it's really not looking good unfortunately and you had mentioned this as an analytics and i do believe the next slide is an information security yeah let's bring that up and it's unfortunately it's not doing much better so this is specifically fortune 500 accounts and information security uh you know there's deep pockets in the fortune 500 but from what we're hearing in all the insights and interviews and panels that i personally moderate for etr people are upset they didn't like the the strong tactics that splunk has used on them in the past they didn't like the ingestion model pricing the inflexibility and when alternatives came along people are willing to look at the alternatives and that's what we're seeing in both analytics and big data and also for their sim in security yeah so i think again i i point to teresa carlson she's got a big job but she's very capable she's gonna she's gonna meet with a lot of customers she's a go to market pro she's gonna have to listen hard and i think you're gonna you're gonna see some changes there um okay so there's more sorry there's more bad news on splunk so bring this up is is is net score for splunk in elastic accounts uh this is for analytics so there's 106 elastic accounts that uh in the data set that also have splunk and it's trending downward for splunk that's why it's green for elastic and eric the important call out from etr here is how splunk's performance in elastic accounts compares with its performance overall the elk stack which obviously elastic is a big part of that is causing pain for splunk as is data dog and you mentioned the pricing issue uh is it is it just well is it pricing in your assessment or is it more fundamental you know it's multi-level based on the commentary we get from our itdms that take the survey so yes you did a great job with this analysis what we're looking at is uh the spending within shared accounts so if i have splunk already how am i spending i'm sorry if i have elastic already how is my spending on splunk and what you're seeing here is it's down to about a 12 net score whereas splunk overall has a 32 net score among all of its customers so what you're seeing there is there is definitely a drain that's happening where elastic is draining spend from splunk and usage from them uh the reason we used elastic here is because all observabilities the whole sector seems to be decelerating splunk is decelerating the most but elastic is the only one that's actually showing resiliency so that's why we decided to choose these two but you pointed out yes it's also datadog datadog is cloud native uh they're more devops oriented they tend to be viewed as having technological lead as compared to splunk so that's a really good point a dynatrace also is expanding their abilities and splunk has been making a lot of acquisitions to push their cloud services they are also changing their pricing model right they're they're trying to make things a little bit more flexible moving off ingestion um and moving towards uh you know consumption so they are trying and the new hires you know i'm not gonna bet against them because the one thing that splunk has going for them is their market share in our survey they're still very well entrenched so they do have a lot of accounts they have their foothold so if they can find a way to make these changes then they you know will be able to change themselves but the one thing i got to say across the whole sector is competition is increasing and it does appear based on commentary and data that they're starting to cannibalize themselves it really seems pretty hard to get away from that and you know there are startups in the observability space too that are going to be you know even more disruptive i think i think i want to key on the pricing for a moment and i've been pretty vocal about this i think the the old sas pricing model where essentially you essentially lock in for a year or two years or three years pay up front or maybe pay quarterly if you're lucky that's a one-way street and i think it's it's a flawed model i like what snowflake's doing i like what datadog's doing look at what stripe is doing look what twilio is doing these are cons you mentioned it because it's consumption based pricing and if you've got a great product put it out there and you know damn the torpedoes and i think that is a game changer i i look at for instance hpe with green lake i look at dell with apex they're trying to mimic that model you know they're there and apply it to to infrastructure it's much harder with infrastructure because you got to deploy physical infrastructure but but that is a model that i think is going to change and i think all of the traditional sas pricing is going to is going to come under disruption over the next you know better part of the decades but anyway uh let's move on we've we've been covering the the apm space uh pretty extensively application performance management and this chart lines up some of the big players here comparing net score or spending momentum from the april 20th survey the gray is is um is sorry the the the gray is the april 20th survey the blue is jan 21 and the yellow is april 21. and not only are elastic and data dog doing well relative to splunk eric but everything is down from last year so this space as you point out is undergoing a transformation yeah the pressures are real and it's you know it's sort of that perfect storm where it's not only the data that's telling us that but also the direct feedback we get from the community uh pretty much all the interviews i do i've done a few panels specifically on this topic for anyone who wants to you know dive a little bit deeper we've had some experts talk about this space and there really is no denying that there is a deceleration in spend and it's happening because that spend is getting spread out among different vendors people are using you know a data dog for certain aspects they're using elastic where they can because it's cheaper they're using splunk because they have to but because it's so expensive they're cutting some of the things that they're putting into splunk which is dangerous particularly on the security side if i have to decide what to put in and whatnot that's not really the right way to have security hygiene um so you know this space is just getting crowded there's disruptive vendors coming from the emerging space as well and what you're seeing here is the only bit of positivity is elastic on a survey over survey basis with a slight slight uptick everywhere else year over year and survey over survey it's showing declines it's just hard to ignore and then you've got dynatrace who based on the the interviews you do in the venn you're you know one on one or one on five you know the private interviews that i've been invited to dynatrace gets very high scores uh for their road map you've got new relic which has been struggling you know financially but they've got a purpose built they've got a really good product and a purpose-built database just for this apm space and then of course you've got cisco with appd which is a strong business for them and then as you mentioned you've got startups coming in you've got chaos search which ed walsh is now running you know leave the data in place in aws and really interesting model honeycomb it's going to be really disruptive jeremy burton's company observed so this space is it's becoming jump ball yeah there's a great line that came out of one of them and that was that the lines are blurring it used to be that you knew exactly that app dynamics what they were doing it was apm only or it was logging and monitoring only and a lot of what i'm hearing from the itdm experts is that the lines are blurring amongst all of these names they all have functionality that kind of crosses over each other and the other interesting thing is it used to be application versus infrastructure monitoring but as you know infrastructure is becoming code more and more and more and as infrastructure becomes code there's really no difference between application and infrastructure monitoring so we're seeing a convergence and a blurring of the lines in this space which really doesn't bode well and a great point about new relic their tech gets good remarks uh i just don't know if their enterprise level service and sales is up to snuff right now um as one of my experts said a cto of a very large public online hospitality company essentially said that he would be shocked that within 18 months if all of these players are still uh standalone that there needs to be some m a or convergence in this space okay now we're going to call out some of the data that that really has jumped out to etr in the latest survey and some of the names that are getting the most queries from etr clients which are many of which are investor clients so let's start by having a look at one of the most important and prominent work from home names zoom uh let's let's look at this eric is the ride over for zoom oh i've been saying it for a little bit of a time now actually i do believe it is um i will get into it but again pointing out great dave uh the reason we're presenting today splunk elastic and zoom are they are the most viewed on the etr plus platform uh trailing behind that only slightly is f5 i decided not to bring f5 to the table today because we don't have a rating on the data set um so then i went one deep one below that and it's pure so the reason we're presenting these to you today is that these are the ones that our clients and our community are most interested in which is hopefully going to gain interest to your viewers as well so to get to zoom um yeah i call zoom the pandec pandemic bull market baby uh this was really just one that had a meteoric ride you look back january in 2020 the stock was at 60 and 10 months later it was like like 580. that's in 10 months um that's cooled down a little bit uh into the mid 300s and i believe that cooling down should continue and the reason why is because we are seeing a huge deceleration in our spending intentions uh they're hitting all-time lows it's really just a very ugly data set um more importantly than the spending intentions for the first time we're seeing customer growth in our survey flattened in the past we could we knew that the the deceleration and spend was happening but meanwhile their new customer growth was accelerating so it was kind of hard to really make any call based on that this is the first time we're seeing flattening customer growth trajectory and that uh in tandem with just dominance from microsoft in every sector they're involved in i don't care if it's ip telephony productivity apps or the core video conferencing microsoft is just dominating so there's really just no way to ignore this anymore the data and the commentary state that zoom is facing some headwinds well plus you've pointed out to me that a lot of your private conversations with buyers says that hey we're we're using the freebie version of zoom you know we're not paying them and so in that combined with teams i mean it's it's uh it's i think you know look zoom has to figure it out they they've got to they've got to figure out how to use their elevated market cap to transform and expand their tan um but let's let's move on here's the data on pure storage and we've highlighted a number of times this company is showing elevated spending intentions um pure announces earnings in in may ibm uh just announced storage what uh it was way down actually so sort of still pure more positive but i'll comment on a moment but what does this data tell you eric yeah you know right now we started seeing this data last survey in january and that was the first time we really went positive on the data set itself and it's just really uh continuing so we're seeing the strongest year-over-year acceleration in the entire survey um which is a really good spot to be pure is also a leading position in among its sector peers and the other thing that was pretty interesting from the data set is among all storage players pure has the highest positive public cloud correlation so what we can do is we can see which respondents are accelerating their public cloud spend and then cross-reference that with their storage spend and pure is best positioned so as you and i both know uh you know digital transformation cloud spending is increasing you need to be aligned with that and among all storage uh sector peers uh pure is best positioned in all of those in spending intentions and uh adoptions and also public cloud correlation so yet again just another really strong data set and i have an anecdote about why this might be happening because when i saw the date i started asking in my interviews what's going on here and there was one particular person he was a director of cloud operations for a very large public tech company now they have hybrid um but their data center is in colo so they don't own and build their own physical building he pointed out that doran kovid his company wanted to increase storage but he couldn't get into his colo center due to covert restrictions they weren't allowed you had so 250 000 square feet right but you're only allowed to have six people in there so it's pretty hard to get to your rack and get work done he said he would buy storage but then the cola would say hey you got to get it out of here it's not even allowed to sit here we don't want it in our facility so he has all this pent up demand in tandem with pent up demand we have a refresh cycle the ssd you know depreciation uh you know cycle is ending uh you know ssds are moving on and we're starting to see uh new technology in that space nvme sorry for technology increasing in that space so we have pent up demand and we have new technology and that's really leading to a refresh cycle and this particular itdm that i spoke to and many of his peers think this has a long tailwind that uh storage could be a good sector for some time to come that's really interesting thank you for that that extra metadata and i want to do a little deeper dive on on storage so here's a look at storage in the the industry in context and some of the competitive i mean it's been a tough market for the reasons that we've highlighted cloud has been eating away that flash headroom it used to be you'd buy storage to get you know more spindles and more performance and you were sort of forced to buy more flash gave more headroom but it's interesting what you're saying about the depreciation cycle so that's good news so etr combines just for people's benefit here combines primary and secondary storage into a single category so you have companies like pure and netapp which are really pure play you know primary storage companies largely in the sector along with veeam cohesity and rubric which are kind of secondary data or data protection so my my quick thoughts here are that pure is elevated and remains what i call the one-eyed man in the land of the blind but that's positive tailwinds there so that's good news rubric is very elevated but down it's a big it's big competitor cohesity is way off its highs and i have to say to me veeam is like the steady eddy consistent player here they just really continue to do well in the data protection business and and the highs are steady the lows are steady dell is also notable they've been struggling in storage their isg business which comprises service and storage it's been soft during covid and and during even you know this new product rollout so it's notable with this new mid-range they have in particular the uptick in dell this survey because dell so large a small uptick can be very good for dell hpe has a big announcement next month in storage so that might improve based on a product cycle of course the nimble brand continues to do well ibm as i said just announced a very soft quarter you know down double digits again uh and there in a product cycle shift and netapp is that looks bad in the etr data from a spending momentum standpoint but their management team is transforming the company into a cloud play which eric is why it was interesting that pure has the greatest momentum in in cloud accounts so that is sort of striking to me i would have thought it would be netapp so that's something that we want to pay attention to but i do like a lot of what netapp is doing uh and other than pure they're the only big kind of pure play in primary storage so long winded uh uh intro there eric but anything you'd add no actually i appreciate it was long winded i i'm going to be honest with you storage is not my uh my best sector as far as a researcher and analyst goes uh but i actually think a lot of what you said is spot on um you know we do capture a lot of large organizations spend uh we don't capture much mid and small so i think when you're talking about these large large players like netapp and um you know not looking so good all i would state is that we are capturing really big organizations spending attention so these are names that should be doing better to be quite honest uh in those accounts and you know at least according to our data we're not seeing it and it's long-term depression as you can see uh you know netapp now has a negative spending velocity in this analysis so you know i can go dig around a little bit more but right now the names that i'm hearing are pure cohesity uh um i'm hearing a little bit about hitachi trying to reinvent themselves in the space but you know i'll take a wait-and-see approach on that one but uh pure and cohesity are the ones i'm hearing a lot from our community so storage is transforming to cloud as a service you're seeing things like apex and in green lake from dell and hpe and container storage little so not really a lot of people paying attention to it but pure about a company called portworx which really specializes in container storage and there's many startups there they're trying to really change the way david flynn has a startup in that space he's the guy who started fusion i o so a lot a lot of transformations happening here okay i know it's been a long segment we have to summarize and then let me go through a summary and then i'll give you the last word eric so tech spending appears to be tracking us gdp at six to seven percent this talent shortage could be a blocker to accelerating i.t deployments and that's kind of good news actually for for services companies digital transformation you know it's it remains a priority and that bodes well not only for services but automation uipath went public this week we we profiled that you know extensively that went public last wednesday um organizations they've i said at the top face some tough decisions on how to allocate resources you know running the business growing the business transforming the business and we're seeing a bifurcation of spending and some residual effects on vendors and that remains a theme that we're watching eric your final thoughts yeah i'm going to go back quickly to just the overall macro spending because there's one thing i think is interesting to point out and we're seeing a real acceleration among mid and small so it seems like early on in the covid recovery or kovitz spending it was the deep pockets that moved first right fortune 500 knew they had to support remote work they started spending first round that in the fortune 500 we're only seeing about five percent spent but when you get into mid and small organizations that's creeping up to eight nine so i just think it's important to point out that they're playing catch-up right now uh also would point out that this is heavily skewed to north america spending we're seeing laggards in emea they just don't seem to be spending as much they're in a very different place in their recovery and uh you know i do think that it's important to point that out um lastly i also want to mention i know you do such a great job on following a lot of the disruptive vendors that you just pointed out pure doing container storage we also have another bi-annual survey that we do called emerging technology and that's for the private names that's going to be launching in may for everyone out there who's interested in not only the disruptive vendors but also private equity players uh keep an eye out for that we do that twice a year and that's growing in its respondents as well and then lastly one comment because you mentioned the uipath ipo it was really hard for us to sit on the sidelines and not put some sort of rating on their data set but ultimately um the data was muted unfortunately and when you're seeing this kind of hype into an ipo like we saw with snowflake the data was resoundingly strong we had no choice but to listen to what the data said for snowflake despite the hype um we didn't see that for uipath and we wanted to and i'm not making a large call there but i do think it's interesting to juxtapose the two that when snowflake was heading to its ipo the data was resoundingly positive and for uipath we just didn't see that thank you for that and eric thanks for coming on today it's really a pleasure to have you and uh so really appreciate the the uh collaboration and look forward to doing more of these we enjoy the partnership greatly dave we're very very happy to have you in the etr family and looking forward to doing a lot lot more with you in the future ditto okay that's it for today remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen all you got to do is search breaking analysis podcast and please subscribe to the series check out etr's website it's etr dot plus we also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com at siliconangle.com you can email me david.velante at siliconangle.com you can dm me on twitter at dvalante or comment on our linkedin post i could see you in clubhouse this is dave vellante for eric porter bradley for the cube insights powered by etr have a great week stay safe be well and we'll see you next time

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, Bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Recent survey data from ETR shows that enterprise tech spending is tracking with projected US GDP growth at six to 7% this year. Many markers continue to point the way to a strong recovery, including hiring trends and the loosening of frozen IT Project budgets. However skills shortages are blocking progress at some companies which bodes well for an increased reliance on external IT services. Moreover, while there's much talk about the rotation out of work from home plays and stocks such as video conferencing, VDI, and other remote worker tech, we see organizations still trying to figure out the ideal balance between funding headquarter investments that have been neglected and getting hybrid work right. In particular, the talent gap combined with a digital mandate, means companies face some tough decisions as to how to fund the future while serving existing customers and transforming culturally. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE's Insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis", we welcome back Erik Porter Bradley of ETR who will share fresh data, perspectives and insights from the latest survey data. Erik, great to see you. Welcome. >> Thank you very much, Dave. Always good to see you and happy to be on the show again. >> Okay, we're going to share some macro data and then we're going to dig into some highlights from ETR's most recent March COVID survey and also the latest April data. So Erik, the first chart that we want to show, it shows CIO and IT buyer responses to expected IT spend for each quarter of 2021 versus 2020, and you can see here a steady quarterly improvement. Erik, what are the key takeaways, from your perspective? >> Sure, well, first of all, for everyone out there, this particular survey had a record-setting number of participation. We had a 1,500 IT decision makers participate and we had over half of the Fortune 500 and over a fifth of the Global 1000. So it was a really good survey. This is seventh iteration of the COVID Impact Survey specifically, and this is going to transition to an overlarge macro survey going forward so we can continue it. And you're 100% right, what we've been tracking here since March of last year was, how is spending being impacted because of COVID? Where is it shifting? And what we're seeing now finally is that there is a real re-acceleration in spend. I know we've been a little bit more cautious than some of the other peers out there that just early on slapped an eight or a 9% number, but what we're seeing is right now, it's at a midpoint of over six, about 6.7% and that is accelerating. So, we are still hopeful that that will continue, and really, that spending is going to be in the second half of the year. As you can see on the left part of this chart that we're looking at, it was about 1.7% versus 3% for Q1 spending year-over-year. So that is starting to accelerate through the back half. >> I think it's prudent to be cautious (indistinct) 'cause normally you'd say, okay, tech is going to grow a couple of points higher than GDP, but it's really so hard to predict this year. Okay, the next chart here that we want to show you is we asked respondents to indicate what strategies they're employing in the short term as a result of coronavirus and you can see a few things that I'll call out and then I'll ask Erik to chime in. First, there's been no meaningful change of course, no surprise in tactics like remote work and holding travel, however, we're seeing very positive trends in other areas trending downward, like hiring freezes and freezing IT deployments, a downward trend in layoffs, and we also see an increase in the acceleration of new IT deployments and in hiring. Erik, what are your key takeaways? >> Well, first of all, I think it's important to point out here that we're also capturing that people believe remote work productivity is still increasing. Now, the trajectory might be coming down a little bit, but that is really key, I think, to the backdrop of what's happening here. So people have a perception that productivity of remote work is better than hybrid work and that's from the IT decision makers themselves, but what we're seeing here is that, most importantly, these organizations are citing plans to increase hiring, and that's something that I think is really important to point out. It's showing a real following, and to your point right in the beginning of the intro, we are seeing deployments stabilize versus prior survey levels, which means early on, they had no plans to launch new tech deployments, then they said, "Nope, we're going to start." and now that stalling, and I think it's exactly right, what you said, is there's an IT skills shortage. So people want to continue to do IT deployments 'cause they have to support work from home and a hybrid back return to the office, but they just don't have the skills to do so, and I think that's really probably the most important takeaway from this chart, is that stalling and to really ask why it's stalling. >> Yeah, so we're going to get into that for sure, and I think that's a really key point, is that accelerating IT deployments, it looks like it's hit a wall in the survey, but before we get deep into the skills, let's take a look at this next chart, and we're asking people here how our return to the new normal, if you will, and back to offices is going to change spending with on-prem architectures and applications. And so the first two bars, they're Cloud-friendly, if you add them up, it's 63% of the respondents, say that either they'll stay in the Cloud for the most part, or they're going to lower their on-prem spend when they go back to the office. The next three bars are on-prem friendly. If you add those up it's 29% of the respondents say their on-prem spend is going to bounce back to pre-COVID levels or actually increase, and of course, 12% of that number, by the way, say they've never altered their on-prem spend. So Erik, no surprise, but this bodes well for Cloud, but isn't it also a positive for on-prem? We've had this dual funding premise, meaning Cloud continues to grow, but neglected data center spend also gets a boost. What's your thoughts? >> Really, it's interesting. It's people are spending on all fronts. You and I were talking in the prep, it's like we're in battle and I've got naval, I've got air, I've got land, I've got to spend on Cloud and digital transformation, but I also have to spend for on-prem. The hybrid work is here and it needs to be supported. So this is spending is going to increase. When you look at this chart, you're going to see though, that roughly 36% of all respondents say that their spending is going to remain mostly on Cloud. So that is still the clear direction, digital transformation is still happening, COVID accelerated it greatly, you and I, as journalists and researchers already know this is where the puck is going, but spend has always lagged a little bit behind 'cause it just takes some time to get there. Inversely, 27% said that their on-prem spending will decrease. So when you look at those two, I still think that the trend is the friend for Cloud spending, even though, yes, they do have to continue spending on hybrid, some of it's been neglected, there are refresh cycles coming up, so, overall it just points to more and more spending right now. It really does seem to be a very strong backdrop for IT growth. >> So I want to talk a little bit about the ETR taxonomy before we bring up the next chart. We get a lot of questions about this, and of course, when you do a massive survey like you're doing, you have to have consistency for time series, so you have to really think through what the buckets look like, if you will. So this next chart takes a look at the ETR taxonomy and it breaks it down into simple-to-understand terms. So the green is the portion of spending on a vendor's tech within a category that is accelerating, and the red is the portion that is decelerating. So Erik, what are the key messages in this data? >> Well, first of all, Dave, thank you so much for pointing that out. We used to do, just what we call a Net score. It's a proprietary formula that we use to determine the overall velocity of spending. Some people found it confusing. Our data scientists decided to break this sector, break down into what you said, which is really more of a mode analysis. In that sector, how many of the vendors are increasing versus decreasing? So again, I just appreciate you bringing that up and allowing us to explain the reasoning behind our analysis there. But what we're seeing here goes back to something you and I did last year when we did our predictions, and that was that IT services and consulting was going to have a true rebound in 2021, and that's what this is showing right here. So in this chart, you're going to see that consulting and services are really continuing their recovery, 2020 had a lot of the clients and they have the biggest sector year-over-year acceleration sector wise. The other thing to point out on this, which we'll get to again later, is that the inverse analysis is true for video conferencing. We will get to that, so I'm going to leave a little bit of ammunition behind for that one, but what we're seeing here is IT consulting services being the real favorable and video conferencing having a little bit more trouble. >> Great, okay, and then let's take a look at that services piece, and this next chart really is a drill down into that space and emphasizes, Erik, what you were just talking about. And we saw this in IBM's earnings, where still more than 60% of IBM's business comes from services and the company beat earnings, in part, due to services outperforming expectations, I think it had a somewhat easier compare and some of this pent-up demand that we've been talking about bodes well for IBM and other services companies, it's not just IBM, right, Erik? >> No, it's not, but again, I'm going to point out that you and I did point out IBM in our predictions when we did in late December, so, it is nice to see. One of the reasons we don't have a more favorable rating on IBM at the moment is because they are in the process of spinning out this large unit, and so there's a little bit of a corporate action there that keeps us off on the sideline. But I would also want to point out here, Tata, Infosys and Cognizant 'cause they're seeing year-over-year acceleration in both IT consulting and outsourced IT services. So we break those down separately and those are the three names that are seeing acceleration in both of those. So again, at the Tata, Infosys and Cognizant are all looking pretty well positioned as well. >> So we've been talking a little bit about this skills shortage, and this is what's, I think, so hard for forecasters, is that in the one hand, There's a lot of pent up demand, Scott Gottlieb said it's like Woodstock coming out of the COVID, but on the other hand, if you have a talent gap, you've got to rely on external services. So there's a learning curve, there's a ramp up, it's an external company, and so it takes time to put those together. So this data that we're going to show you next, is really important in my view and ties what we were saying at the top. It asks respondents to comment on their staffing plans. The light blue is "We're increasing staff", the gray is "No change" and the magenta or whatever, whatever color that is that sort of purplish color, anyway, that color is decreasing, and the picture is very positive across the board. Full-time staff, offshoring, contract employees, outsourced professional services, all up trending upwards, and this Erik is more evidence of the services bounce back. >> Yeah, it's certainly, yes, David, and what happened is when we caught this trend, we decided to go one level deeper and say, all right, we're seeing this, but we need to know why, and that's what we always try to do here. Data will tell you what's happening, it doesn't always tell you why, and that's one of the things that ETR really tries to dig in with through the insights, interviews panels, and also going direct with these more custom survey questions. So in this instance, I think the real takeaway is that 30% of the respondents said that their outsourced and managed services are going to increase over the next three months. That's really powerful, that's a large portion of organizations in a very short time period. So we're capturing that this acceleration is happening right now and it will be happening in real time, and I don't see it slowing down. You and I are speaking about we have to increase Cloud spend, we have to increase hybrid spend, there are refresh cycles coming up, and there's just a real skills shortage. So this is a long-term setup that bodes very well for IT services and consulting. >> You know, Erik, when I came out of college, somebody told me, "Read, read, read, read as much as you can." And then they said, "Read the Wall Street Journal every day." and so I did it, and I would read the tech magazines and back then it was all paper, and what happens is you begin to connect the dots. And so the reason I bring that up is because I've now taken a bath in the ETR data for the better part of two years and I'm beginning to be able to connect the dots. The data is not always predictive, but many, many times it is. And so this next data gets into the fun stuff where we name names. A lot of times people don't like it because they're either marketing people at organizations, say, "Well, data's wrong." because that's the first thing they do, is attack the data. But you and I know, we've made some really great calls, work from home, for sure, you're talking about the services bounce back. We certainly saw the rise of CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler, well before people were talking about that, same thing with video conferencing. And so, anyway, this is the fun stuff and it looks at positive versus negative sentiment on companies. So first, how does ETR derive this data and how should we interpret it, and what are some of your takeaways? >> Sure, first of all, how we derive the data, are systematic survey responses that we do on a quarterly basis, and we standardize those responses to allow for time series analysis so we can do trend analysis as well. We do find that our data, because it's talking about forward-looking spending intentions, is really more predictive because we're talking about things that might be happening six months, three months in the future, not things that a lot of other competitors and research peers are looking at things that already happened, they're looking in the past, ETR really likes to look into the future and our surveys are set up to do so. So thank you for that question, It's a enjoyable lead in, but to get to the fun stuff, like you said, what we do here is we put ratings on the datasets. I do want to put the caveat out there that our spending intentions really only captures top-line revenue. It is not indicative of profit margin or any other line items, so this is only to be viewed as what we are rating the data set itself, not the company, that's not what we're in the game of doing. So I think that's very important for the marketing and the vendors out there themselves when they take a look at this. We're just talking about what we can control, which is our data. We're going to talk about a few of the names here on this highlighted vendors list. One, we're going to go back to that you and I spoke about, I guess, about six months ago, or maybe even earlier, which was the observability space. You and I were noticing that it was getting very crowded, a lot of new entrants, there was a lot of acquisition from more of the legacy or standard players in the space, and that is continuing. So I think in a minute, we're going to move into that observability space, but what we're seeing there is that it's becoming incredibly crowded and we're possibly seeing signs of them cannibalizing each other. We're also going to move on a little bit into video conferencing, where we're capturing some spend deceleration, and then ultimately, we're going to get into a little bit of a storage refresh cycle and talk about that. But yeah, these are the highlighted vendors for April, we usually do this once a quarter and they do change based on the data, but they're not usually whipsawed around, the data doesn't move that quickly. >> Yeah, so you can see some of the big names in the left-hand side, some of the SAS companies that have momentum. Obviously, ServiceNow has been doing very, very well. We've talked a lot about Snowflake, Okta, CrowdStrike, Zscaler, all very positive, as well as several others. I guess I'd add some things. I mean, I think if thinking about the next decade, it's Cloud, which is not going to be like the same Cloud as the last decade, a lot of machine learning and deep learning and AI and the Cloud is extending to the edge and the data center. Data, obviously, very important, data is decentralized and distributed, so data architectures are changing. A lot of opportunities to connect across Clouds and actually create abstraction layers, and then something that we've been covering a lot is processor performance is actually accelerating relative to Moore's law. It's probably instead of doubling every two years, it's quadrupling every two years, and so that is a huge factor, especially as it relates to powering AI and AI inferencing at the edge. This is a whole new territory, custom Silicon is really becoming in vogue and so something that we're watching very, very closely. >> Yeah, I completely, agree on that and I do think that the next version of Cloud will be very different. Another thing to point out on that too, is you can't do anything that you're talking about without collecting the data and organizations are extremely serious about that now. It seems it doesn't matter what industry they're in, every company is a data company, and that also bodes well for the storage goal. We do believe that there is going to just be a huge increase in the need for storage, and yes, hopefully that'll become portable across multi-Cloud and hybrid as well. >> Now, as Erik said, the ETR data, it's really focused on that top-line spend. So if you look on the right side of that chart, you saw NetApp was kind of negative, was very negative, right? But it is a company that's in transformation now, they've lowered expectations and they've recently beat expectations, that's why the stock has been doing better, but at the macro, from a spending standpoint, it's still stout challenged. So you have big footprint companies like NetApp and Oracle is another one. Oracle's stock is at an all time high, but the spending relative to sort of previous cycles are relative to, like for instance, Snowflake, much, much smaller, not as high growth, but they're managing expectations, they're managing their transition, they're managing profitability. Zoom is another one, Zoom looking negative, but Zoom's got to use its market cap now to transform and increase its TAM. And then Splunk is another one we're going to talk about. Splunk is in transition, it acquired SignalFX, It just brought on this week, Teresa Carlson, who was the head of AWS Public Sector. She's the president and head of sales, so they've got a go-to-market challenge and they brought in Teresa Carlson to really solve that, but Splunk has been trending downward, we called that several quarters ago, Erik, and so I want to bring up the data on Splunk, and this is Splunk, Erik, in analytics, and it's not trending in the right direction. The green is accelerating spend, the red is in the bars is decelerating spend, the top blue line is spending velocity or Net score, and the yellow line is market share or pervasiveness in the dataset. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, first I want to go back. There's a great point, Dave, about our data versus a disconnect from an equity analysis perspective. I used to be an equity analyst, that is not what we do here. And the main word you said is expectations, right? Stocks will trade on how they do compare to the expectations that are set, whether that's buy-side expectations, sell-side expectations or management's guidance themselves. We have no business in tracking any of that, what we are talking about is the top-line acceleration or deceleration. So, that was a great point to make, and I do think it's an important one for all of our listeners out there. Now, to move to Splunk, yes, I've been capturing a lot of negative commentary on Splunk even before the data turns. So this has been a about a year-long, our analysis and review on this name and I'm dating myself here, but I know you and I are both rock and roll fans, so I'm going to point out a Led Zeppelin song and movie, and say that the song remains the same for Splunk. We are just seeing recent spending attentions are taking yet another step down, both from prior survey levels, from year ago levels. This, we're looking at in the analytics sector and spending intentions are decelerating across every single group, and we went to one of our other slide analysis on the ETR+ platform, and you do by customer sub-sample, in analytics, it's dropping in every single vertical. It doesn't matter which one. it's really not looking good, unfortunately, and you had mentioned this is an analytics and I do believe the next slide is an information security. >> Yeah, let's bring that up. >> And unfortunately it's not doing much better. So this is specifically Fortune 500 accounts and information security. There's deep pockets in the Fortune 500, but from what we're hearing in all the insights and interviews and panels that I personally moderate for ETR, people are upset, that they didn't like the strong tactics that Splunk has used on them in the past, they didn't like the ingestion model pricing, the inflexibility, and when alternatives came along, people are willing to look at the alternatives, and that's what we're seeing in both analytics and big data and also for their SIM and security. >> Yeah, so I think again, I pointed Teresa Carlson. She's got a big job, but she's very capable. She's going to meet with a lot of customers, she's a go-to-market pro, she's going to to have to listen hard, and I think you're going to see some changes there. Okay, so sorry, there's more bad news on Splunk. So (indistinct) bring this up is Net score for Splunk and Elastic accounts. This is for analytics, so there's 106 Elastic accounts in the dataset that also have Splunk and it's trending downward for Splunk, that's why it's green for Elastic. And Erik, the important call out from ETR here is how Splunk's performance in Elastic accounts compares with its performance overall. The ELK stack, which obviously Elastic is a big part of that, is causing pain for Splunk, as is Datadog, and you mentioned the pricing issue, well, is it pricing in your assessment or is it more fundamental? >> It's multi-level based on the commentary we get from our ITDMs teams that take the survey. So yes, you did a great job with this analysis. What we're looking at is the spending within shared accounts. So if I have Splunk already, how am I spending? I'm sorry if I have Elastic already, how am I spending on Splunk? And what you're seeing here is it's down to about a 12% Net score, whereas Splunk overall, has a 32% Net score among all of its customers. So what you're seeing there is there is definitely a drain that's happening where Elastic is draining spend from Splunk and usage from them. The reason we used Elastic here is because all observabilities, the whole sector seems to be decelerating. Splunk is decelerating the most, but Elastic is the only one that's actually showing resiliency, so that's why we decided to choose these two, but you pointed out, yes, it's also Datadog. Datadog is Cloud native. They're more dev ops-oriented. They tend to be viewed as having technological lead as compared to Splunk. So a really good point. Dynatrace also is expanding their abilities and Splunk has been making a lot of acquisitions to push their Cloud services, they are also changing their pricing model, right? They're trying to make things a little bit more flexible, moving off ingestion and moving towards consumption. So they are trying, and the new hires, I'm not going to bet against them because the one thing that Splunk has going for them is their market share in our survey, they're still very well entrenched. So they do have a lot of accounts, they have their foothold. So if they can find a way to make these changes, then they will be able to change themselves, but the one thing I got to say across the whole sector is competition is increasing, and it does appear based on commentary and data that they're starting to cannibalize themselves. It really seems pretty hard to get away from that, and you know there are startups in the observability space too that are going to be even more disruptive. >> I think I want to key on the pricing for a moment, and I've been pretty vocal about this. I think the old SAS pricing model where you essentially lock in for a year or two years or three years, pay up front, or maybe pay quarterly if you're lucky, that's a one-way street and I think it's a flawed model. I like what Snowflake's doing, I like what Datadog's doing, look at what Stripe is doing, look at what Twilio is doing, you mentioned it, it's consumption-based pricing, and if you've got a great product, put it out there and damn, the torpedoes, and I think that is a game changer. I look at, for instance, HPE with GreenLake, I look at Dell with Apex, they're trying to mimic that model and apply it to infrastructure, it's much harder with infrastructure 'cause you've got to deploy physical infrastructure, but that is a model that I think is going to change, and I think all of the traditional SAS pricing is going to come under disruption over the next better part of the decades, but anyway, let's move on. We've been covering the APM space pretty extensively, application performance management, and this chart lines up some of the big players here. Comparing Net score or spending momentum from the April 20th survey, the gray is, sorry, the gray is the April 20th survey, the blue is Jan 21 and the yellow is April 21, and not only are Elastic and Datadog doing well relative to Splunk, Erik, but everything is down from last year. So this space, as you point out, is undergoing a transformation. >> Yeah, the pressures are real and it's sort of that perfect storm where it's not only the data that's telling us that, but also the direct feedback we get from the community. Pretty much all the interviews I do, I've done a few panels specifically on this topic, for anyone who wants to dive a little bit deeper. We've had some experts talk about this space and there really is no denying that there is a deceleration in spend and it's happening because that spend is getting spread out among different vendors. People are using a Datadog for certain aspects, they are using Elastic where they can 'cause it's cheaper. They're using Splunk because they have to, but because it's so expensive, they're cutting some of the things that they're putting into Splunk, which is dangerous, particularly on the security side. If I have to decide what to put in and whatnot, that's not really the right way to have security hygiene. So this space is just getting crowded, there's disruptive vendors coming from the emerging space as well, and what you're seeing here is the only bit of positivity is Elastic on a survey-over-survey basis with a slight, slight uptick. Everywhere else, year-over-year and survey-over-survey, it's showing declines, it's just hard to ignore. >> And then you've got Dynatrace who, based on the interviews you do in the (indistinct), one-on-one, or one-on-five, the private interviews that I've been invited to, Dynatrace gets very high scores for their roadmap. You've got New Relic, which has been struggling financially, but they've got a really good product and a purpose-built database just for this APM space, and then of course, you've got Cisco with AppD, which is a strong business for them, and then as you mentioned, you've got startups coming in, you got ChaosSearch, which Ed Walsh is now running, leave the data in place in AWS and really interesting model, Honeycomb is getting really disruptive, Jeremy Burton's company, Observed. So this space is it's becoming jumped ball. >> Yeah, there's a great line that came out of one of them, and that was that the lines are blurring. It used to be that you knew exactly that AppDynamics, what they were doing, it was APM only, or it was logging and monitoring only, and a lot of what I'm hearing from the ITDM experts is that the lines are blurring amongst all of these names. They all have functionality that kind of crosses over each other. And the other interesting thing is it used to be application versus infrastructure monitoring, but as you know, infrastructure is becoming code more and more and more, and as infrastructure becomes code, there's really no difference between application and infrastructure monitoring. So we're seeing a convergence and a blurring of the lines in this space, which really doesn't bode well, and a great point about New Relic, their tech gets good remarks. I just don't know if their enterprise level service and sales is up to snuff right now. As one of my experts said, a CTO of a very large public online hospitality company essentially said that he would be shocked that within 18 months if all of these players are still standalone, that there needs to be some M and A or convergence in this space. >> Okay, now we're going to call out some of the data that really has jumped out to ETR in the latest survey, and some of the names that are getting the most queries from ETR clients, many of which are investor clients. So let's start by having a look at one of the most important and prominent work from home names, Zoom. Let's look at this. Erik is the ride over for Zoom? >> Ah, I've been saying it for a little bit of a time now actually. I do believe it is, and we'll get into it, but again, pointing out, great, Dave, the reason we're presenting today Splunk, Elastic and Zoom, they are the most viewed on the ETR+ platform. Trailing behind that only slightly is F5, I decided not to bring F5 to the table today 'cause we don't have a rating on the data set. So then I went one deep, one below that and it's pure. So the reason we're presenting these to you today is that these are the ones that our clients and our community are most interested in, which is hopefully going to gain interest to your viewers as well. So to get to Zoom, yeah, I call Zoom the pandemic bull market baby. This was really just one that had a meteoric ride. You look back, January in 2020, the stock was at $60 and 10 months later, it was like 580, that's in 10 months. That's cooled down a little bit into the mid-300s, and I believe that cooling down should continue, and the reason why is because we are seeing huge deceleration in our spending intentions. They're hitting all-time lows, it's really just a very ugly dataset. More importantly than the spending intentions, for the first time, we're seeing customer growth in our survey flatten. In the past, we knew that the deceleration of spend was happening, but meanwhile, their new customer growth was accelerating, so it was kind of hard to really make any call based on that. This is the first time we're seeing flattening customer growth trajectory, and that in tandem with just dominance from Microsoft in every sector they're involved in, I don't care if it's IP telephony, productivity apps or the core video conferencing, Microsoft is just dominating. So there's really just no way to ignore this anymore. The data and the commentary state that Zoom is facing some headwinds. >> Well, plus you've pointed out to me that a lot of your private conversations with buyers says that, "Hey, we're, we're using the freebie version of Zoom, and we're not paying them." And that combined with Teams, I mean, it's... I think, look, Zoom, they've got to figure out how to use their elevated market cap to transform and expand their TAM, but let's move on. Here's the data on Pure Storage and we've highlighted a number of times this company is showing elevated spending intentions. Pure announced it's earnings in May, IBM just announced storage, it was way down actually. So still, Pure, more positive, but I'll on that comment in a moment, but what does this data tell you, Erik? >> Yeah, right now we started seeing this data last survey in January, and that was the first time we really went positive on the data set itself, and it's just really continuing. So we're seeing the strongest year-over-year acceleration in the entire survey, which is a really good spot to be. Pure is also a leading position among its sector peers, and the other thing that was pretty interesting from the data set is among all storage players, Pure has the highest positive public Cloud correlation. So what we can do is we can see which respondents are accelerating their public Cloud spend and then cross-reference that with their storage spend and Pure is best positioned. So as you and I both know, digital transformation Cloud spending is increasing, you need to be aligned with that. And among all storage sector peers, Pure is best positioned in all of those, in spending intentions and adoptions and also public Cloud correlation. So yet again, to start another really strong dataset, and I have an anecdote about why this might be happening, because when I saw the data, I started asking in my interviews, what's going on here? And there was one particular person, he was a director of Cloud operations for a very large public tech company. Now, they have hybrid, but their data center is in colo, So they don't own and build their own physical building. He pointed out that during COVID, his company wanted to increase storage, but he couldn't get into his colo center due to COVID restrictions. They weren't allowed. You had 250,000 square feet, right, but you're only allowed to have six people in there. So it's pretty hard to get to your rack and get work done. He said he would buy storage, but then the colo would say, "Hey, you got to get it out of here. It's not even allowed to sit here. We don't want it in our facility." So he has all this pent up demand. In tandem with pent up demand, we have a refresh cycle. The SSD depreciation cycle is ending. SSDs are moving on and we're starting to see a new technology in that space, NVMe sorry, technology increasing in that space. So we have pent up demand and we have new technology and that's really leading to a refresh cycle, and this particular ITDM that I spoke to and many of his peers think this has a long tailwind that storage could be a good sector for some time to come. >> That's really interesting, thank you for that extra metadata. And I want to do a little deeper dive on storage. So here's a look at storage in the industry in context and some of the competitive. I mean, it's been a tough market for the reasons that we've highlighted, Cloud has been eating away that flash headroom. It used to be you'd buy storage to get more spindles and more performance and we're sort of forced to buy more, flash, gave more headroom, but it's interesting what you're saying about the depreciation cycle. So that's good news. So ETR combines, just for people's benefit here, combines primary and secondary storage into a single category. So you have companies like Pure and NetApp, which are really pure play primary storage companies, largely in the sector, along with Veeam, Cohesity and Rubrik, which are kind of secondary data or data protection. So my quick thoughts here that Pure is elevated and remains what I call the one-eyed man in the land of the blind, but that's positive tailwinds there, so that's good news. Rubrik is very elevated but down, it's big competitor, Cohesity is way off its highs, and I have to say to me, Veeam is like the Steady Eddy consistent player here. They just really continue to do well in the data protection business, and the highs are steady, the lows are steady. Dell is also notable, they've been struggling in storage. Their ISG business, which comprises servers and storage, it's been softer in COVID, and during even this new product rollout, so it's notable with this new mid range they have in particular, the uptick in Dell, this survey, because Dell is so large, a small uptick can be very good for Dell. HPE has a big announcement next month in storage, so that might improve based on a product cycle. Of course, the Nimble brand continues to do well, IBM, as I said, just announced a very soft quarter, down double digits again, and they're in a product cycle shift. And NetApp, it looks bad in the ETR data from a spending momentum standpoint, but their management team is transforming the company into a Cloud play, which Erik is why it was interesting that Pure has the greatest momentum in Cloud accounts, so that is sort of striking to me. I would have thought it would be NetApp, so that's something that we want to pay attention to, but I do like a lot of what NetApp is doing, and other than Pure, they're the only big kind of pure play in primary storage. So long-winded, intro there, Erik, but anything you'd add? >> No, actually I appreciate it as long-winded. I'm going to be honest with you, storage is not my best sector as far as a researcher and analyst goes, but I actually think that a lot of what you said is spot on. We do capture a lot of large organizations spend, we don't capture much mid and small, so I think when you're talking about these large, large players like NetApp not looking so good, all I would state is that we are capturing really big organization spending attention, so these are names that should be doing better to be quite honest, in those accounts, and at least according to our data, we're not seeing it in. It's longterm depression, as you can see, NetApp now has a negative spending velocity in this analysis. So, I can go dig around a little bit more, but right now the names that I'm hearing are Pure, Cohesity. I'm hearing a little bit about Hitachi trying to reinvent themselves in the space, but I'll take a wait-and-see approach on that one, but pure Cohesity are the ones I'm hearing a lot from our community. >> So storage is transforming to Cloud as a service. You've seen things like Apex in GreenLake from Dell and HPE and container storage. A little, so not really a lot of people paying attention to it, but Pure bought a company called Portworx which really specializes in container storage, and there's many startups there, they're trying to really change the way. David Flynn, has a startup in that space, he's the guy who started Fusion-io. So a lot of transformations happening here. Okay, I know it's been a long segment, we have to summarize, and let me go through a summary and then I'll give you the last word, Erik. So tech spending appears to be tracking US GDP at 6 to 7%. This talent shortage could be a blocker to accelerating IT deployments, so that's kind of good news actually for services companies. Digital transformation, it remains a priority, and that bodes, well, not only for services, but automation. UiPath went public this week, we profiled that extensively, that went public last Wednesday. Organizations that sit at the top face some tough decisions on how to allocate resources. They're running the business, growing the business, transforming the business, and we're seeing a bifurcation of spending and some residual effects on vendors, and that remains a theme that we're watching. Erik, your final thoughts. >> Yeah, I'm going to go back quickly to just the overall macro spending, 'cause there's one thing I think is interesting to point out and we're seeing a real acceleration among mid and small. So it seems like early on in the COVID recovery or COVID spending, it was the deep pockets that moved first, right? Fortune 500 knew they had to support remote work, they started spending first. Around that in the Fortune 500, we're only seeing about 5% spend, but when you get into mid and small organizations, that's creeping up to eight, nine. So I just think it's important to point out that they're playing catch up right now. I also would point out that this is heavily skewed to North America spending. We're seeing laggards in EMEA, they just don't seem to be spending as much. They're in a very different place in their recovery, and I do think that it's important to point that out. Lastly, I also want to mention, I know you do such a great job on following a lot of the disruptive vendors that you just pointed out, with Pure doing container storage, we also have another bi-annual survey that we do called Emerging Technology, and that's for the private names. That's going to be launching in May, for everyone out there who's interested in not only the disruptive vendors, but also private equity players. Keep an eye out for that. We do that twice a year and that's growing in its respondents as well. And then lastly, one comment, because you mentioned the UiPath IPO, it was really hard for us to sit on the sidelines and not put some sort of rating on their dataset, but ultimately, the data was muted, unfortunately, and when you're seeing this kind of hype into an IPO like we saw with Snowflake, the data was resoundingly strong. We had no choice, but to listen to what the data said for Snowflake, despite the hype. We didn't see that for UiPath and we wanted to, and I'm not making a large call there, but I do think it's interesting to juxtapose the two, that when snowflake was heading to its IPO, the data was resoundingly positive, and for UiPath, we just didn't see that. >> Thank you for that, and Erik, thanks for coming on today. It's really a pleasure to have you, and so really appreciate the collaboration and look forward to doing more of these. >> Yeah, we enjoy the partnership greatly, Dave. We're very happy to have you on the ETR family and looking forward to doing a lot, lot more with you in the future. >> Ditto. Okay, that's it for today. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you have to do is search "Breaking Analysis" podcast, and please subscribe to the series. Check out ETR website it's etr.plus. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me, david.vellante@siliconangle.com, you can DM me on Twitter @dvellante or comment on our LinkedIn posts. I could see you in Clubhouse. This is Dave Vellante for Erik Porter Bradley for the CUBE Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well and we'll see you next time. (bright music)

>> Okay. Now we're going to dig deeper into HPE Ezmeral and try to better understand how it's going to impact customers. And with me to do that are Robert Christiansen, who is the Vice President of Strategy in the office of the CTO and Kumar Sreekanti, who is the Chief Technology Officer and Head of Software, both of course, with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. Thanks for coming on. >> Good seeing you, Dave. Thanks for having us. >> It's always good to see you guys. >> Thanks for having us. >> So, Ezmeral, kind of an interesting name, catchy name, but Kumar, what exactly is HPE Ezmeral? >> It's indeed a catchy name. Our branding team has done fantastic job. I believe it's actually derived from Esmeralda, is the Spanish for emarald. Often it's supposed some very mythical bars, and they derived Ezmeral from there. And we all initially when we heard, it was interesting. So, Ezmeral was our effort to take all the software, the platform tools that HPE has and provide this modern operating platform to the customers and put it under one brand. So, it has a modern container platform, it does persistent storage with the data fabric and it doesn't include as many of our customers from that. So, think of it as a modern container platform for modernization and digitazation for the customers. >> Yeah, it's an interesting, you talk about platform, so it's not, you know, a lot of times people say product, but you're positioning it as a platform so that has a broader implication. >> That's very true. So, as the customers are thinking of this digitazation, modernization containers and Microsoft, as you know, there is, has become the stable all. So, it's actually a container orchestration platform with golfers open source going into this as well as the persistence already. >> So, by the way, Ezmeral, I think Emerald in Spanish, I think in the culture, it also has immunity powers as well. So immunity from lock-in, (Robert and Kumar laughing) and all those other terrible diseases, maybe it helps us with COVID too. Robert, when you talk to customers, what problems do you probe for that Ezmeral can do a good job solving? >> Yeah, that's a really great question because a lot of times they don't even know what it is that they're trying to solve for other than just a very narrow use case. But the idea here is to give them a platform by which they can bridge both the public and private environment for what they do, the application development, specifically in the data side. So, when yo're looking to bring containerization, which originally got started on the public cloud and it has moved its way, I should say it become popular in the public cloud and it moved its way on premises now, Ezmeral really opens the door to three fundamental things, but, you know, how do I maintain an open architecture like you're referring to, to some low or no lock-in of my applications. Number two, how do I gain a data fabric or a data consistency of accessing the data so I don't have to rewrite those applications when I do move them around. And then lastly, where everybody's heading, the real value is in the AI ML initiatives that companies are really bringing and that value of their data and locking that data at where the data is being generated and stored. And so the Ezmeral platform is those multiple pieces that Kumar was talking about stacked together to deliver the solutions for the client. >> So Kumar, how does it work? What's the sort of IP or the secret source behind it all? What makes HPE different? >> Yeah. Continuing on (indistinct) it's a modern glass form of optimizing the data and workloads. But I think I would say there are three unique characteristics of this platform. Number one is that it actually provides you both an ability to run statefull and stateless as workloads under the same platform. And number two is, as we were thinking about, unlike another Kubernete is open source, it actually add, use you all open-source Kurbenates as well as an orchestration behind them so you can actually, you can provide this hybrid thing that Robert was talking about. And then actually we built the workflows into it, for example, they'll actually announced along with it Ezmeral, ML expert on the customers can actually do the workflow management around specific data woakload. So, the magic is if you want to see the secrets out of all the efforts that has been going into some of the IP acquisitions that HPE has done over the years, we said we BlueData, MAPR, and the Nimble, all these pieces are coming together and providing a modern digitization platform for the customers. >> So these pieces, they all have a little bit of a machine intelligence in them, you have people, who used to think of AI as this sort of separate thing, I mean the same thing with containers, right? But now it's getting embedded into the stack. What is the role of machine intelligence or machine learning in Ezmeral? >> I would take a step back and say, you know, there's very well the customers, the amount of data that is being generated and 95% or 98% of the data is machine generated. And it does a series of a window gravity, and it is sitting at the edge and we were the only one that had edge to the cloud data fabric that's built to it. So, the number one is that we are bringing computer or a cloud to the data that taking the data to the cloud, right, if you will. It's a cloud like experience that provides the customer. AI is not much value to us if we don't harness the data. So, I said this in one of the blog was we have gone from collecting the data, to the finding the insights into the data, right. So, that people have used all sorts of analysis that we are to find data is the new oil. So, the AI and the data. And then now your applications have to be modernized and nobody wants write an application in a non microservices fashion because you wanted to build the modernization. So, if you bring these three things, I want to have a data gravity with lots of data, I have built an AI applications and I want to have those three things I think we bring to the customer. >> So, Robert let's stay on customers for a minute. I mean, I want to understand the business impact, the business case, I mean, why should all the cloud developers have all the fun, you've mentioned it, you're bridging the cloud and on-prem, they talk about when you talk to customers and what they are seeing is the business impact, what's the real drivers for that? >> That's a great question cause at the end of the day, I think the recent survey that was that cost and performance are still the number one requirement for this, just real close second is agility, the speed at which they want to move and so those two are the top of mind every time. But the thing we find Ezmeral, which is so impactful is that nobody brings together the Silicon, the hardware, the platform, and all of that stack together work and combine like Ezmeral does with the platforms that we have and specifically, we start getting 90, 92, 93% utilization out of AI ML workloads on very expensive hardware, it really, really is a competitive advantage over a public cloud offering, which does not offer those kinds of services and the cost models are so significantly different. So, we do that by collapsing the stack, we take out as much intellectual property, excuse me, as much software pieces that are necessary so we are closest to the Silicon, closest to the applications, bring it to the hardware itself, meaning that we can interleave the applications, meaning that you can get to true multitenancy on a particular platform that allows you to deliver a cost optimized solution. So, when you talk about the money side, absolutely, there's just nothing out there and then on the second side, which is agility. One of the things that we know is today is that applications need to be built in pipelines, right, this is something that's been established now for quite some time. Now, that's really making its way on premises and what Kumar was talking about with, how do we modernize? How do we do that? Well, there's going to be some that you want to break into microservices containers, and there's some that you don't. Now, the ones that they're going to do that they're going to get that speed and motion, et cetera, out of the gate and they can put that on premises, which is relatively new these days to the on-premises world. So, we think both won't be the advantage. >> Okay. I want to unpack that a little bit. So, the cost is clearly really 90 plus percent utilization. >> Yes. >> I mean, Kumar, you know, even pre virtualization, we know that it was like, even with virtualization, you never really got that high. I mean, people would talk about it, but are you really able to sustain that in real world workloads? >> Yeah. I think when you make your exchangeable cut up into smaller pieces, you can insert them into many areas. We have one customer was running 18 containers on a single server and each of those containers, as you know, early days of new data, you actually modernize what we consider week run containers or microbiome. So, if you actually build these microservices, and you all and you have versioning all correctly, you can pack these things extremely well. And we have seen this, again, it's not a guarantee, it all depends on your application and your, I mean, as an engineer, we want to always understand all of these caveats work, but it is a very modern utilization of the platform with the data and once you know where the data is, and then it becomes very easy to match those two. >> Now, the other piece of the value proposition that I heard Robert is it's basically an integrated stack. So I don't have to cobble together a bunch of open source components, there's legal implications, there's obviously performance implications. I would imagine that resonates and particularly with the enterprise buyer because they don't have the time to do all this integration. >> That's a very good point. So there is an interesting question that enterprises, they want to have an open source so there is no lock-in, but they also need help to implement and deploy and manage it because they don't have the expertise. And we all know that the IKEA desk has actually brought that API, the past layer standardization. So what we have done is we have given the open source and you arrive to the Kubernetes API, but at the same time orchestration, persistent stories, the data fabric, the AI algorithms, all of them are bolted into it and on the top of that, it's available both as a licensed software on-prem, and the same software runs on the GreenLake. So you can actually pay as you go and then we run it for them in a colo or, or in their own data center. >> Oh, good. That was one of my latter questions. So, I can get this as a service pay by the drink, essentially I don't have to install a bunch of stuff on-prem and pay it perpetualized... >> There is a lot of containers and is the reason and the lapse of service in the last discover and knowledge gone production. So both Ezmeral is available, you can run it on-prem, on the cloud as well, a congenital platform, or you can run instead on GreenLake. >> Robert, are there any specific use case patterns that you see emerging amongst customers? >> Yeah, absolutely. So there's a couple of them. So we have a, a really nice relationship that we see with any of the Splunk operators that were out there today, right? So Splunk containerized, their operator, that operator is the number one operator, for example, for Splunk in the IT operation side or notifications as well as on the security operations side. So we've found that that runs highly effective on top of Ezmeral, on top of our platforms so we just talked about, that Kumar just talked about, but I want to also give a little bit of backgrounds to that same operator platform. The way that the Ezmeral platform has done is that we've been able to make it highly active, active with HA availability at nine, it's going to be at five nines for that same Splunk operator on premises, on the Kubernetes open source, which is as far as I'm concerned, a very, very high end computer science work. You understand how difficult that is, that's number one. Number two is you'll see just a spark workloads as a whole. All right. Nobody handles spark workloads like we do. So we put a container around them and we put them inside the pipeline of moving people through that basic, ML AI pipeline of getting a model through its system, through its trained, and then actually deployed to our ML ops pipeline. This is a key fundamental for delivering value in the data space as well. And then lastly, this is, this is really important when you think about the data fabric that we offer, the data fabric itself doesn't necessarily have to be bolted with the container platform, the container, the actual data fabric itself, can be deployed underneath a number of our, you know, for competitive platforms who don't handle data well. We know that, we know that they don't handle it very well at all. And we get lots and lots of calls for people saying, "Hey, can you take your Ezmeral data fabric "and solve my large scale, "highly challenging data problems?" And we say, "yeah, "and then when you're ready for a real world, "full time enterprise ready container platform, "we'd be happy to prove that too." >> So you're saying you're, if I'm inferring correctly, you're one of the values as you're simplifying that whole data pipeline and the whole data science, science project pun intended, I guess. (Robert and Kumar laughing) >> That's true. >> Absolutely. >> So, where does a customer start? I mean, what, what are the engagements like? What's the starting point? >> It's means we're probably one of the most trusted and robust supplier for many, many years and we have a phenomenal workforce of both the (indistinct), world leading support organization, there are many places to start with. One is obviously all these salaries that are available on the GreenLake, as we just talked about, and they can start on a pay as you go basis. There are many customers that actually some of them are from the early days of BlueData and MAPR, and then already running and they actually improvise on when, as they move into their next version more of a message. You can start with simple as well as container platform or system with the store, a computer's operation and can implement as an analyst to start working. And then finally as a big company like HPE as an everybody's company, that finance it's services, it's very easy for the customers to be able to get that support on day to day operations. >> Thank you for watching everybody. It's Dave Vellante for theCUBE. Keep it right there for more great content from Ezmeral.

(digital music) >> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The storage business as we know it has changed forever. On-prem storage was once a virtually unlimited and untapped bastion of innovation, VC funding and lucrative exits. Today it's a shadow of its former self and the glory days of storage will not return. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights Powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we'll lay out our premise for what's happening in the storage industry, and share some fresh insights from our ETR partners, and data that supports our thinking. We've had three decades of tectonic shifts in the storage business. From the simplified history of this industry shows us there've been five major waves of innovation spanning five decades. The dominant industry model has evolved from what was first the mainframe centric vertically integrated business, but of course by IBM and it became a disintegrated business that saw between like 70 or 80 Winchester disk drive companies that rose and then fell. They served a booming PC industry in this way it was led by the likes of Seagate. Now Seagate supplied the emergence of an intelligent controller based external disc array business that drove huge margins for functions that while lucrative was far cheaper than captive storage from system vendors, this era of course was led by EMC and NetApp. And then this business was disrupted by a flash and software defined model that was led by Pure Storage and also VMware. Now the future of storage is being defined by cloud and intelligent data management is being led by AWS and a three letter company that we'll just call TBD, otherwise known as Jump Ball Incorporated. Now, let's get into it here, the impact of AWS cannot be overstated now while legacy storage players, they're sick and tired of talking about the cloud, the reality cannot be ignored. The cloud has been the most disruptive force in storage over the past 10 years, and we've reported on the spending impact extensively. But cloud is not the only factor pressuring the on-prem storage business, flash has killed what we call performance by spindles. In other words, the practice of adding more disk drives to keep performance from tanking. So much flash has been injected into the data center that that no longer is required. But now as you drill down into the cloud, AWS has been by far the most significant factor in our view. Lots of people talked about object storage before AWS, but there sure wasn't much spending going on, S3 changed that. AWS is getting much more aggressive about expanding its storage portfolio and its offerings. S3 came out in 2006 and it was the very first AWS service and then Elastic Block Service EBS came out a couple of years later, nobody really paid much attention. Well last fall at storage day, we saw AWS announce a number of services, many fire-related and this year we saw four new announcements of Amazon at re:Invent. We think AWS' storage revenue will surpass 8 billion this year and could be as high as 10 billion. There's not much data out there, but this would mean that AWS' storage biz is larger than that of a NetApp, which means AWS is larger than every traditional storage player with the exception of Dell. Here's a little glimpse of what's coming at the legacy storage business. It's a clip of the vice-president of AWS storage, her name is Mahlon Thompson Bukovec, watch this. Okay now, you may say Dave, what the heck does that have to do with anything? Yeah, I don't know, but as an older white guy, that's been in this business for awhile, I just think it's badass that this woman boxes and runs a business that we think is approaching $10 billion. Now let's take a quick look at the storage announcements AWS made at re:Invent. The company made four announcements this year, let me try to be brief, the first is EBS io2 Block Express Volumes, got to love the names. AWS was claims this is the first storage area network or sand for the cloud and it offers up to 256,000 IOPS and 4,000 megabytes per second throughput and 64 terabytes of capacity. Hey, sounds pretty impressive right, Well let's dig in a little bit okay, first of all, this is not the first sand in the cloud, at least in my view there may be others but Pure Storage announced cloud block store in 2019 at its annual accelerate customer conference and it's pretty comparable here. Maybe not so much in the speeds and feeds, but the concept of better block storage in the cloud with higher availability. Now, as you may also be saying, what's the big deal? The performance come on, we can smoke that we're on-prem vendor We can bury that. Compared to what we do, AWS' announcement is really not that impressive okay, let me give you a point of comparison there's a startup out there called VAST Data. Just there for you and closure with bundled storage and compute can do 400,000 IOPS and 40,000 megabytes per second and that can be scaled, so yeah, I get it. And AWS also announced that io2 two was priced at 20% less than previous generation volumes, which you might say is also no big deal and I would agree 20% is not as aggressive as the average price decline per gigabyte of any storage technology. AWS loves to make a big deal about its price declines, it's essentially following the industry trends but the point is that this feature will be great for a lot of workloads and it's fully integrated with AWS services meaning for example, it will be very convenient for AWS customers to invoke this capability for example Aurora and other AWS databases through its RDS service, just another easy button for developers to push. This is specially important as we see AWS rapidly expanding its machine learning in AI capabilities with SageMaker, it's embedding ML into things like Redshift and driving analytics, so integration is very key for its customers. Now, is Amazon retail going to run its business on io2 volumes? I doubt it. I believe they're running on Oracle and they need much better performance, but this is a mainstream service for the EBS masses to tap. Now, the other notable announcement was EBS Gp3 volumes. This is essentially a service that lets let you programmatically set SLAs for IOPS and throughput independently without needing to add additional storage. Again, you may be saying things like, well atleast I remember when SolidFire let me do this several years ago and gave me more than 3000 IOPS and 125 megabytes per a second performance, but look, this is great for mainstream customers that want more consistent and predictable performance and that want to set some kind of threshold or floor and it's integrated again into the AWS stack. Two other announcements were made, one that automatically tiers data to colder storage tiers and a replication service. On the former, data migrates to tier two after 90 days of inaccess and tier three, after 180 days. AWS remember, they hired a bunch of folks out of EMC years ago and they put them up in the Boston Seaport area, so they've acquired lots of expertise in a lot of different areas I'm not sure if tiering came out of that group but look, this stuff is not rocket science, but it saves customers money. So these are tried and true techniques that AWS is applying but the important thing is it's in the cloud. Now for sure we'd like to see more policy options than say for example, a fixed 90 day or 180 day policy and more importantly we'd like to see intelligent tiering where the machine is smart enough to elevate and promote certain datasets when they're needed for instance, at the end of a quarter for comparison purposes or at the end of the year, but as NFL Hall of Fame Coach Hank Stram would have said, AWS is matriculating the ball down the field. Okay, let's look at some of the data that supports what we're saying here in our premise today. This chart shows spending across the ETR taxonomy. It depicts the net score or spending velocity for different sectors. We've highlighted storage, now don't put too much weight on the January data because the survey was just launched, but you can see storage continues to be a back burner item relative to some other spending priorities. Now as I've reported, CIOs are really focused on cloud, containers, container orchestration, automation, productivity and other key areas like security. Now let's take a look at some of the financial data from the storage crowd. This chart shows data for eight leading names in storage and we put storage in quotes because as we said earlier, the market is shifting and for sure companies like Cohesity and Rubrik, they're not positioning as storage players in fact, that's the last thing they want to do. Rather they're category creators around data management or intelligent data management but their inadjacency to storage, they're partnering with all the primary storage companies and they're in the ETR taxonomy. Okay, so as you can see, we're showing the year over year, quarterly revenue growth for the leading storage companies. NetApp is a big winner, they're growing at a whopping 2%. They beat expectations, but expectations were way down so you can see in the right most column upper right, we've added the ETR net score from October and net score of 10% says that if you ask customers, are you spending more or less with a company, there are 10% of the customers that are essentially spending more than are spending less, get into that a little further later. For comparison, a company like Snowflake, it has a net score approaching 70% Pure Storage used to be that high several years ago or high sixties anyway. So 10% is in the red zone and yet NetApp, is the big winner this quarter. Now Nutanix isn't really again a storage company, but they're an adjacency and they sell storage and like many of these companies, it's transitioning to a subscription pricing model, so that puts pressure on the income statement, that's why they went out and did a deal with Bain, Bain put in $750 million to help Bridge that transition so that's kind of an interesting move. Every company in this chart is moving to an annual recurring revenue model and that as a service approach is going to be the norm by the end of the decade. HPE's doing it with GreenLake, Dell has announced Apex, virtually every company is headed in this direction. Now speaking of HPE, it's Nimble business that has momentum, but other parts of the storage portfolio are quite a bit softer. Dell continues to see pressure on its storage business although VxRail is a bright spot. Everybody's got a bright spot, everybody's got new stuff that's growing much faster than the old stuff, the problem is the old stuff is much much bigger than the new stuff. IBM's mainframe storage cycle, well that's seems to have run its course, they had been growing for the last several quarters that looks like it's over. And so very very cyclical businesses here now as you can see, The data protection data management companies, they are showing spending momentum but they're not public so we don't have revenue data. But you got to wonder with all the money these guys have raised and the red hot IPO and tech markets, why haven't these guys gone public? The answer has to be that they're either not ready or maybe their a numbers weren't where they want them to be, maybe they're not predictable enough, maybe they don't have their operational act together or maybe they need to you get that in order, some combination of those factors is likely. They'll tell you, they'll give other answers if you ask them, but if they had their stuff together they'd be going out right now. Now here's another look at the spending data in terms of net score, which is again spending velocity. The ETR here is measuring the percent of respondents that are adopting new, spending more, spending flat, spending less or retiring the platform. So net score is adoptions, which is the lime green plus the spending more, which is the forest green. Add those two and then subtract spending less, which is the pink and then leaving the platform, which is the bright red, what's left over is net score. So, let's look at the picture here, Cohesity leads all players in the storage taxonomy, the ETR storage taxonomy, again they don't position that way, but that's the way the customers are answering. They've got 55% net score which is really solid and you can see the data in the upper right-hand corner, it's followed by Nutanix. Now they're really not again in the scope of Pure play storage play but speaking of Pure, its net score has come down from its high of 73% in January, 2016. It's not going to climb back up there, but it's going to be interesting to see if Pure net scorecard rebound in a post COVID world. We're also watching what Pure does in terms of unifying file and object and how it's fairing in cloud and what it does with the Portworx acquisition which is really designed to bring forth a new programming model. Now, Dell is doing fine with VxRail, but VSAN is well off its net score highs which we're in the 60% plus range a couple of years ago, VSAN is definitely been a factor from VMware, but again that's come off its highs, HPE with Nimble still has some room to improve, I think it actually will I think that these figures that we're showing here they're are somewhat depressed by the COVID factor, I expect Nimble is going to bounce back in future surveys. Dell and NetApp are the big leaders in terms of presence or market share in the data other than VMware, 'cause VMware has a lot of instances, it's software defined that's why they're so prominent. And with VMware's large share you'd expect them to have net scores that are tepid and you can see a similar pattern with IBM. So Dell, NetApp, tepid net scores as is IBM because of their large market share VMware, kind of a newer entry into the play and so doing pretty well there from a net score standpoint. Now Commvault like Cohesity and Rubrik is really around intelligent data management, trying to go beyond backup into business recovery, data protection, DevOps, bringing that analytics, bringing that to the cloud, we didn't put Veeam in here and we probably should have. They had pre-COVID net scores well in to the thirties and they have a steadily increasing share of the market, so we expect good things from Veeam going forward. They were acquired earlier this year by Insight, capital private equity firm. So big changes there as well, that was their kind of near-term exit maybe more to come. But look, it's all relative, this is a large and mature market that is moving to the cloud and moving to other adjacencies. And the core is still primary storage, that's the main supreme prerequisite and everything else flows from there, data protection, replication, everything else. This chart gives you another view of the competitive landscape, it's that classic XY chart it plots net score in the vertical axis and market share on the horizontal axis, market share remember is a measure of presence in the dataset. Now think about this from the CIO's perspective, they have their on-prem estate, got all this infrastructure and they're putting a brick wall around their core systems. And what do they want out of storage for that class of workload? They want it to perform consistently, they want it to be efficient and they want it to be cost-effective, so what are they going to do? they're going to consolidate, They're going to consolidate the number of vendors, they're going to consolidate the storage, they're going to minimize complexity, yeah, they're going to worry about the blast radius, but there's ways to architect around that. The last thing they want to worry about is managing a zillion storage vendors this business is consolidating, it has been for some time, we've seen the number of independent storage players that are going public as consolidated over the years, and it's going to continue. so on-prem storage arrays are not giving CIOs the innovation and strategic advantage back when things like storage virtualization, space efficient snapshots, data de-duplication and other storage services were worth maybe taking a flyer on a feature product like for example, a 3PAR or even a Data Domain. Now flash gave the CIOs more headroom and better performance and so as I said earlier, they're not just buying spindles to increase performance, so as more and more work gets pushed to the cloud, you're seeing a bunkering in on these large scale mission-critical workloads. As you saw earlier, the legacy storage market is consolidating and has been for a while as I just said, it's essentially becoming a managed decline business where RnD is going to increasingly get squeezed and go to other areas, both from the vendor community and on the buy-side where they're investing on things like cloud, containers and in building new layers in their business and of course the DX, the Digital Transformation. I mentioned VAST Data before, it is a company that's growing and another company that's growing is Infinidat and these guys are traditional storage on-prem models they don't bristle If I say traditional they're nexgen if you will but they don't own a cloud, so they were selling to the data center. Now Infinidat is focused on petabyte scale and as they say, they're growing revenues, they're having success consolidating storage that thing that I just talked about. Ironically, these are two Israeli founder based companies that are growing and you saw earlier, this is a share shift the market is not growing overall the part of that's COVID, but if you exclude cloud, the market is under pressure. Now these two companies that I'm mentioning, they're kind of the exception to the rule here, they're tiny in the grand scheme of things, they're really not going to shift the market and their end game is to get acquired so they can still share, but they're not going to reverse these trends. And every one on this chart, every on-prem player has to have a cloud strategy where they connect into the cloud, where they take advantage of native cloud services and they help extend their respective install bases into the cloud, including having a capability that is physically proximate to the cloud with a colo like an Equinix or some other approach. Now, for example at re:Invent, we saw that AWS has hybrid strategy, we saw that evolving. AWS is trying to bring AWS to the edge and they treat the data center as just another edge note, so outposts and smaller versions of outposts and things like local zones are all part of bringing AWS to the edge. And we saw a few companies Pure, Infinidant, Veeam come to mind that are connecting to outpost. They saw the Qumulo was in there, Clumio, Commvault, WekaIO is also in there and I'm sure I'm missing some so, DM me, email me, yell at me, I'm sorry I forgot you but you get the point. These companies that are selling on-prem are connecting to the cloud, they're forced to connect to the cloud much in the same way as they were forced to join the VMware ecosystem and try to add value, try to keep moving fast. So, that's what's going on here, what's the prognosis for storage in the coming year? Well, where've of all the good times gone? Look, we would never bet against data but the days of selling storage controllers that masks the deficiencies of spinning disc or add embedded hardware functions or easily picking off a legacy install base with flash, well, those days are gone. Repatriation, it ain't happening it's maybe tiny little pockets. CIOs are rationalizing their on-premises portfolios so they can invest in the cloud, AI, machine learning, machine intelligence, automation and they're re-skilling their teams. Low latency high bandwidth workloads with minimal jitter, that's the sweet spot for on-prem it's becoming the mainframe of storage. CIOs are also developing a cloud first strategy yes, the world is hybrid but what does that mean to CIOs? It means you're going to have some work in the cloud and some work on-prem, there's a hybrid We've got both. Everything that can go to the cloud, will go to the cloud, in our opinion and everything that can't or shouldn't won't. Yes, people will make mistakes and they'll "repatriate" but generally that's the trend. And the CIOs they're building an abstraction layer to connect workloads from an observability and manageability standpoint so they can maintain control and manage lock-in risk, they have options. Everything that doesn't go to the cloud will likely have some type of hybridicity to it, the reverse won't likely be the case. For vendors, cloud strategies involve supporting your install basis migration to the cloud, that's where they're going, that's where they want to go, they want your help there's business to be made there so enabling low latency hybrids in accommodating subscription models, well, that's a whole another topic, but that's the trend that we see and you rethink the business that you're in, for instance, data management and developing an edge strategy that recognizes that edge workloads are going to require new architecture and that's more efficient than what we've seen built around general purpose systems, and wow, that's a topic for another day. You're seeing this whole as a service model really reshape the entire cultures in the way in which the on-prem vendors are operating no longer is it selling a box that has dramatically marked up controllers and disc drives, it's really thinking about services that could be invoked in the cloud. Now remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, just search Breaking Analysis podcasts and please subscribe, I'd appreciate that checkout etr.plus for all the survey action. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. A lot of ways to get in touch. You can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. you could DM me @dvellante on Twitter, comment on our LinkedIn posts, I always appreciate that. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights Powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everyone stay safe and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover Virtual Experience Brought to You by HP >>I Welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover. 2020. The virtual experience I'm Stew Minimum course This year we're getting to talk to HP, their customers and their partners where they are around the globe. We said many times these were, you know, together, even while we're art happy to dig into a really important partnership with HP and VM Ware. Welcome to the program. First time guest on the program Christmas Satterthwaite. She is the vice president of product management for Compute with Packard Enterprise and welcome back to the program Lee Caswell. He is the vice president, product marketing for hyper converged infrastructure, her at VM Ware talking about V sphere and how that gets bundled into everything else. Chris Stanley, thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having us. >>Alright, So, Chris, let's start with you. So you know, like a little bit about your background? The HP and HP relationship with VM Ware, you know, goes back to you know, the earliest days, but, you know, give us a little bit about you know where in the portfolio you focus on and and how VM Ware fit, then >>Oh, sure, sure. So I've been with H P E for 23 years now, and I'm leading the business for Alliance and Synergy and talking a little bit about the relationship with VM Ware. So we've been partnering for 19 years and we have over 200,000 joint customers together. And I'm actually often asked about the partnership and how we partner and we really partner across all fronts. So it's from the innovation for the co engineering, the working with specific customers on what solutions are good for them to servicing our customers. So we're really working across the board, and a lot of customers we work with closely are really impressed with how closely we're working together, because that's what they look for. >>Yeah, and we it's it's It's an interesting relationship to watch. Obviously, you know, long history Chris talked about on the it side, but the VM partnership is more than just the compute. Maybe gives a little bit of a view inside. You know, the joint engineering go to market efforts that you do. >>Yeah. I mean, customers always sit up straight when we talk together, because both hard companies or just raw engines of innovation and they look forward to not just the capabilities or bringing, but also the seamless way that we integrate that and make that seamless and easy for customers to digest. So certainly on the server front through V sphere, that's been a longstanding, uh, participation the VM Ware Cloud Foundation. Then this fully software defined stack became a really interesting way for us to go in partner and show joint value to customers who are trying to basically get more speed the speed. We're gonna talk about a lot that today and then finally, the confirmation that we've opened up into storage systems, right? So there's certainly a hyper converged element of it. But now what we do with Nimble three Par and now I'm Era is a really interesting way for us to take the vehicle technology that we have and extend the common operating model. So really just interesting innovation for customers that take advantage of as they look to innovate themselves. >>Krista, from from a research standpoint, you know, we were really early in watching, you know, new models of building out storage. And we said, You know, the pendulum has swung back to pull it much closer to the compute you talked about. You've got a broad portfolio and compute. You know, synergy has some really interesting, you know, ways to be able to compose things and leverage software capabilities. So maybe give >>us a >>little bit of how HP differentiates in the market cause, you know, VM Ware does partner with lots of people. But you know what separates the's point solution? Everything else out in the market? >>Sure, and synergy is a great example, because what we're seeing is really, really high interest on on synergy with VCF. And the reason for that is because customers want a software to find infrastructure that they can compose, compute storage and networking as they need to to address any workload they have. And they want to do that with a partner like VM Ware and VCF. So what we see is customers choosing those two things together and building their hybrid cloud environments on those two. When I think of some of the customers that we have, I'll give you a specific example. So Banco Santander's one of the largest banking groups in the world. And they are really trying to drive innovation across all of their, um, locations there in North America, South America, Europe, Asia. They're trying to drive innovation across. They have a big project, and they selected Synergy and VCF and as a service green lake bottle to help them transform their business. And they're really excited because what they think this is providing to them is a reduced a data center space, reduced power consumption and reduce costs. And all of that with automation, more automation than they've had in the past. More flexibility than they've had in the past. >>Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up the Green Lake because you know, those as a service models. You know, Cloud obviously has been a big discussion for the last two years, Lee, Um, you know, VM Ware is no stranger to, you know, working in multi and hybrid environments. It gives a little bit about you know what you're hearing from your customers. You know, if you meant Green Lake, how does that fit in the overall? You know, VM Ware multi cloud offering. >>Well, you know, we all know these air uncertain times, right? and customers and uncertain times. We're looking for flexibility. How do they go? And basically, you know, invest smartly, right? Look to come out of uncertain times stronger. And what we're finding is that the flexibility, you know, starting it. You know, we're really impressed with this energy platform, by the way, the idea of being able to flexibly, configure, compute and storage to tie into external arrays from that end, to have the VM Ware Cloud Foundation is a unifying, software defined data center concept that's available on Prem and then extends into the hybrid cloud. This basic gives investment protection to customers who are looking for how to invest in. You know, you mentioned Green Lake as well, and I just mentioned that innovation on Green Lake is about true consumption based purchasing miles, if you will. And that's different than just a financial engineering aspect. I mean, that's real innovation and real technical innovation in terms of how customers can go in a why infrastructure at the time that they needed relative to that compelling business models, >>and I'll chime in their Teoh, I'll tell you a little story about when I first presented the green like model. At that time, it wasn't called Green Lake, but I presented it to a bunch of customers, about 100 customers in an advisory council. And I have never had so many people come up to me afterwards trying to figure out how they can get that for themselves as I did when I had that presentation. What really resonated with people is that they wanted to take advantage of the latest and greatest technologies, but they didn't have big budgets. And when they did take advantage of those technologies, one of the challenges has been growth. So when they need to expand, that's another procurement cycle. You have a way to have the standard all love with Green Lake. You actually have that added capacity on sites and then also painful what you use s so they were attracted to all of those things. And I feel like right now and the environment were in many people had big, big projects, things they want to do, and they may have planned those ah, a capital expenditure for that. But that money may not be there, So Green Lake is one of those things that can help overcome that challenge. And what we found is when people use green like we don't see many people. Um, go back. So what? I was talking to the green like team, and I said, You know what happens if they decide not to do Green Lake and they're kind of pause, and they're like, Well, we really haven't run into that very often. So it's very, very popular, and customers were really happy with it. >>Yeah. Talking about innovation and helping customers take advantage of new technologies. You know, maybe we'll start with you and Krista. Definitely want your but been a lot of feedback about V. Sphere seven. Of course, One of the big pieces of that is how, you know, cloud native container ization kubernetes It can be pulled into the, you know, the virtualization platform. So we're talking a lot about vcf Lee. That's the you know. Wait. Get it. The community's piece today. Tell us a little bit about that and what you hear from customers. And then Chris, I'd like to understand how that fits into the HP offering. >>Yeah, you know, the data we have shows that 95% of new applications are being developed on containers. Why? Because it's the speed of ill. And so at VM Ware, we've re architected V sphere for the first time that, you know in the last five years. And you look carefully at what the EMR integrates into the hyper visor because that's what we believe is going to be really benefiting from performance efficiency and management. And so we've integrated kubernetes directly into the hyper visor itself and then to our Tom's, a portfolio. Introduce an upstream compatible kubernetes development environment so that we have developer ready infrastructure. And that's really important because at the speed of new applications, basically you need to be able to respond quickly to those and what VM Ware has always offered right, which is a resilient underlying infrastructure with an intrinsic security model built in conceptually important when containers are being spun up more quickly. All right, mark quickly. They're being portable and portable across the hybrid cloud. Those models right mean that you need and convince you get value right from this integrated model that leverages all of the experience and knowledge that people have around how to run V Center and V Sphere so really exciting, and it's available in VCF for with >>I actually see the interest. I see customers asking about an enquiring about it. Vikan, you know, definitely second everything that we just said. I think you're really you're going to see a really fast transition over because there's so much value. Add it in. >>Excellent. Okay, Crystal, while I've got you on the compute piece, you know, legally said that 95% of application new applications are being built on container ization. How has that impacted architecture, er and how you're working with? >>Yeah. So what I find is that customers are very interested in containers. What we're doing is we're helping them from a services standpoint. A consulting standpoint of many of these customers are adopting for the first time trying to figure out how they could they could leverage containers in their environment. From our standpoint, it's making sure that we have the right platforms and we're advising and consulting and helping customers get there. >>Excellent, Lee. You know, Kristen talked about a sense and under one wondering if you've got any customer examples you like to share? >>Yeah. Great. One is ah, portion. I love the portion example. Just because portion, just the epitome of speed. And so the idea of this flexibility well, you're finding rate is the flexibility, right? Starting from, let's say, from a synergy, I'm flexible on the part of their allocation, right? And then, with VCF right now being able to be flexible across the hybrid cloud and now with VCF or with ponzu, the flexibility of introducing new modern applications support on Finally Layer and Green Lake On top of that which which is also using it, gives you this idea that you know, especially in uncertain times. But, you know, regardless, the changing business environment where everyone's responding, toe app, development rushers, timelines and innovation. We've got a really interesting model now for customers to invest responsibly and be able to respond quickly. >>Hm. Excellent. Crystal, I guess. Said the other pieces were at discover any updates on the portfolio expanding the VM solution. That >>Yeah. Yeah. So I'd like to talk a little bit about our pre validated synergy vcf solution stack with built in automation. So we literally got rid of hundreds of that's pre and post employment so we could speed deployment by five times. We were talking to point in hours instead of weeks. So we're really, really excited about that. We're working together to make sure we're making things easier for customers making that journey to a hybrid cloud very, very simple. So we're really happy to have, you know, offer that to customers. >>Great Lee, Any any final words you can share on the partnership? You >>know what I might say? It's right that the pace of innovation from our companies right is so great, Right? That really v vm Ware Cloud Foundation is a way, you know, in our joint effort and joint delivery rate is a way for customers to assimilate all of this innovation. So that day zero, it's guaranteed the work. And that day two, you can lifecycle manage all the individual components from a common sec manager interface. That's the value that we're bringing together today. Is that Listen, you know, putting all this in place conceived, daunting until the VM Ware Cloud Foundation, with synergy with all of the joint value we have basically makes it manageable so that you can go and basically stop looking down it infrastructure. Look up the ass. >>All right. Christine will let you have the final word and final takeaways from HP Discover. >>Okay, sure. Thanks. Together. What we're trying to do is simplify that journey to hybrid cloud. Make sure that customers can innovate faster, provide stable operations and reduce their costs. >>Well, Chris Stanley, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on the progress. Looking forward. Toa watching down the road. >>All right, thanks. >>Alright, Stay tuned for lots more coverage from the Cube, HP Discover 2020. Virtual experience on stew Minimum. Thanks for watching. Yeah, >>yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> From around the globe, it's theCUBE. Covering HPE Discover Virtual Experience. Brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome back, this is theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover the Virtual Experience. I'm your host Stu Miniman. And we are now excited to be able to go beyond the hype of hyper convergence. Happy to welcome back to the program one of our regulars, even though he has a new title, Patrick Osborne is the vice president and general manager for Hewlett Packard Enterprise Hyperconverged Infrastructure, or HPE HCI as we could abbreviate. Patrick, good to see you. Thanks for much for coming back on theCUBE. >> Absolutely Stu, thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to be on theCUBE. >> All right. So, you know, HCI, obviously has had a dramatic impact on the storage industry, you know, HPE has, you know, acquisitions like SimpliVity, Nimble has a play there, you've got partnerships with some solutions including with GreenLake. Why don't you give us just kind of the update, you've been with HPE for quite a while, what really, you know, excited you about taking this job and then we'll begin on the latest in the portfolio. >> Well, I think, so what's exciting about this market is it's a growth market. HCI is certainly a great solution for a whole swath of customer segments. So we thought, you know, about these HCI solutions from everyone, from our largest enterprise customers all the way down to our smallest SMB customers, and it really fits the bill not only for what you think about a standard HCI, where you're collapsing workloads and you're collapsing infrastructure, but also I think one of the interesting things that we've been able to deliver, especially with products like the HCI is around delivering dHCI experience for three tiers of architecture. And, you know, I think that's really exciting for customers that you know, certainly are moving more towards generalists, away from specialists and, you know, you're going to get really get that HCI experience in addition to a lot of other things we bring to the table here at HPE, that you know, we've talked about before, especially around AI ops and InfoSight and the ability to do a ton of things around predictive analytics. So it's an exciting space and it serves almost our entire customer base. >> Excellent. Now your group you did some announcements, a little bit ahead of Discover, why don't you give us the latest on the news and lay out how the portfolio fits. >> Yeah, so back in May we made some significant announcements on, in the HCI portfolio. So both on HCI SimpliVity as well as our Nimble dHCI offerings. One of the things we brought to market was around VDI specifically and we launched a new platform called the SimpliVity 325 and based on some new technology with our partner AMD are able to, you know, significantly lower the cost and increase the performance for the number of remote users that were, you know, that we're able to support with the platform and also bring together a solution you know, so, you know, what you also partner with folks like Citrix and CTERA and a whole a number of folks so we can have a full vertically oriented solution stack for customers that are doing, you know, they're significantly expanding their footprint around remote workers. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's going to cut in half, you can say 50% savings on your, you know per remote worker for desktop. So some significant savings there, and we've seen a huge amount of uptick for that platform in the last two months, even since we announced it. And then secondly, on the dHCI side, we made a number of announcements around simplicity, adding that a platform to our GreenLake consumption model, which is really cool, and then adding a whole set of new building blocks on the compute side based on AMD technology that allows, you know, folks to apply different types of compute per workload for our dHCI solution. So we made a pretty, pretty big announcement back in May around our portfolio for HCI solutions and the customers are definitely impacted super positively for both announcements. >> Yeah, it's funny. I remember a few years back, everybody kind of rolled their eyes a little bit. It was like, Oh, you know, VDI talked about it to death. And of course with the global pandemic, now of course remote work so critically important, I've talked to a number of CIOs that have had HCI solutions and it's like, Hey, I need to dramatically increase my services, I need to be able to scale things up and if I didn't have these solutions, I wouldn't be able to react as fast as I need. You said you you've seen an uptick, any particularly anecdotes or, you know, customer stories as to how they've been able to react fast in today's climate. >> Yeah, so especially for knowledge workers that are working remote, I mean, I can tell you that, almost 98 or 99% of my staff and the folks at HPE are working remotely and they're doing a fantastic job. So, you know, when we're able to service, you know, very small customers that are just, you know, embarking on their journey for remote workers to some of the largest corporations out there that our partners and customers of HPE, we've been able to, you know, produce a, you know, a really good outcome for them in addition to, you know, working with our partners, our reseller partners, to put this is another solution building block in their bag of tricks for their customers. >> All right. The other thing, what I want to talk a bit about is, you know, HCI is a managed service, so GreenLake, I've talked to some of your team, it has about a thousand customers HCI, so you know, one of the main options that they're offering there. Why don't you bring us inside a little bit as to, you know, why customers are choosing choosing GreenLake and you know, what that means for your product set? >> So this, from a strategic perspective, HPE, we've stated this publicly is that we want to offer all of our products and solutions as a service from a consumption perspective over the next couple of years. And so, you know, one of those key things that we want to offer from a workload perspective is certainly HCI as a service, so VMs as a service and as well as, you know, higher level type of applications, like VDI as a service. And so one of the announcements that we made was including both of our portfolios, HCI and dHCI in GreenLake so you can, essentially as a customer, you can start off very small and you are paying for the solution in metered increments, and we have lots of flexibility, you can do it at the workload level, you can do it at the CPU consumption level, you can do it at storage consumption level and so that gives a lot of flexibility and that's great for our larger customers that want to move from a CAPEX to an OPEX model. And, but it also really helps a lot of our small and medium sized customers who are, you know, in this environment, they are, you know, one of the top things in their mind is maintaining liquidity and so they can move that to an OPEX model and we actually have some really great offers that we announced with HPE financial services in conjunction with GreenLake on making this a very flexible, very cost effective manner to consume infrastructure and provide solutions for their customers and their end users. >> Excellent. You mentioned before a little bit about AI ops, give us a little bit as to how you see the, really the next generation of HCI taking advantage of, you know, automation intelligence and the like. >> Yes, so you know, as we've a talk on theCUBE before, one of the, I think one of the key solutions that we have and experiences that we bring to our customers in addition to the consumption level is this ability to do AI ops, global learning, predictive analytics for our workloads, for our customers, and essentially really really cut down on the costs in people that it takes to maintain these solutions and then you can, you know, essentially use the global learning and global aspect of, you know, a giant fleet in our entire install base and that gets applied to HCI. So SimpliVity HCI has been plugged into info site for over about a year now. Nimble obviously, Nimble dHCI, it's a core from the product offering and it's the best offering in the market for AI ops. And so our ability to do these things and provide predictive analytics, memory pressure, black listing, and white listing, the install base for problems, being able to reach out to customers before issues happen, noisy neighbors, VM consumption, storage consumption, all these things, you know, really cut down and provide a really awesome support automation experience for customers and essentially have a seamless experience for managing all of our systems. And when you think about HCI 2.O being able to do that, not only on a compressed infrastructure like HCI, but being able to do it on dHCI, which is desegregated hyperconverged so you can scale storage and networking and compute separately and you provide that same HCI experience from a management perspective and the AI ops around it is a game changer for, you know, some of the most, you know, business and mission critical applications that our customers are running. >> Alright. Well, one of the big themes that we're hearing across HPE Discover this year is about it's solutions. Traditionally I think of HCI really as helping collapse and simplify the data center, really that cloud operating model almost in the data center, where do these things connect? How does the edge fit in to this whole discussion? >> Yeah, so one of the beauties of HCI and specifically SimpliVity is our ability to be hyper efficient not only in the just the storage of the data. So, you know, from day one, everything is de-duped, everything is compressed and that's across both your on prem copies, as well as your DR copies, as well as your backup copies. And one of the things that we're seeing is that, sure HCI is great to collapse workloads in the data center and, but what we're seeing now is the ability to go serve as workloads that are running outside of the data center and when we talk about edge, we have some fantastic assets and a lot of customers, you know, running our edge compute solutions, our edge networking solution, specifically wireless and Aruba and what we're able to do is we're bringing those services, so compute, networking, and storage closer to the end user, but outside the data center and so there are some challenges to that like, so how do you federate the management of hundreds, if not thousands of clusters of these workloads running that could be anywhere from, you can think about a small, like a micro data center to a closet to even just, you know, small form factor that could be in a half of a rack and being able to manage those effectively but then also be able to pull the workloads and the data back. So being able to do edge, to core to cloud from a data mobility perspective. It's something that we provide and our customers are certainly deploying our solutions because of that. So a lot of stuff going on in the edge and I think one of the other things too that we see is people are running virtualized workloads, so VMs, and then also starting to incorporate containers. So microservices for, you know, industry specific things like vision and video and, you know, a whole bunch of things that happen around AI and ML at the edge. So it's very exciting place. >> Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. You know, obviously one of the things that we're hearing a lot of interest from the community when it comes to virtualization is, you know, what is happening with that, really application modernization and containerization a big piece of that, of course, VMware with vSphere 7 are really helping to bring Kubernetes together to the virtualization environment. How do you see all of these playing together? You know, being a bare mental virtualization, containers, you know, edge, core, cloud, it's a complicated environment and, you know, the goal of HCI was always to help simplify this but we know IT is a bit messy and additive. >> Yeah, I think at the end of the day, you know, there are some basic services that customers want to run at the end of the day. They want to be able to deploy a workload on infrastructure that can be managed remotely, that could be managed at scale that provides, resiliency, it provides performance and it provides data mobility and HCI provides all of those capabilities whether it's, you know, through the HPE SimpliVity portfolio or Nimble dHCI and so you have a number of different building blocks that you can build. But on top of that is a set of data services in cloud consumption like experience that allows you to place those workloads on the infrastructure that you need and where you need it. And so if it's running at the edge, this commingling of VMs and containers, you know, we have a pretty unique platform out there, especially for things like AI and ML workloads in our HPE container platform and so you can run that for example, on something like HPE SimpliVity or dHCI, whether that's in the data center or whether you're running that on the edge and being able to service those customers, that's not an all or nothing proposition. At this point, you know, a number of our customers are running workloads that are virtualized and that are side by side to provide essentially good to customers, their customers at the end of the day. >> Excellent. Patrick, I'll give you the final word, takeaways if you want, that your customers want to have from HPE Discovery's week. >> Yeah, HPE Discover Virtual Experience has been great and you know, I think everyone participating in this, you know, we'd love to provide you as (mumble) as possible. There are a number of announcements around HCI, both our HCI platform was SimpliVity, to dHCI, we made some really great announcements recently around our primary storage and then we're going to continue at HPE Discover around some of our cloud data services. So when you think about someone who's going to provide, you know, you're going to partner with, from a costumer perspective on your most valuable workloads, whether it's workloads that exist today, or workloads that are fuel your digital transformation, HPE really is a partner that's providing, you know the infrastructure, the workloads and the cloud like experience both from a management perspective as well as from a consumption perspective that's going to service as these workloads from edge to core to cloud. So we're pretty excited about HPE discover now. >> Excellent. Thanks so much, Patrick and we'll be right back with lots more coverage from HPE Discover, I'm Stu Miniman and thank you as always for watching theCUBE.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover Virtual Experience. Brought to you by HPE. >> Hi, and welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2020, the Virtual Experience. Happy to welcome back to the program, just had him on at VeeamON at theCUBE's coverage there. David Harvey, he is the Vice President of Strategic Alliances at Veeam. David, welcome to our coverage of HPE Discover. >> Thank you. I appreciate the invitation and great to see you again. >> All right, so when I talked to you at VeeamON, of course, you talk about lots of partners and you love all of them, but now we get to hear the truth. HPE, which one of your partners do you love the best? Talk to us a little bit about that HPE relationship. >> Sure, yeah, absolutely and really great to be part of Discover this year. And I think it's a fantastic set up in the way that HPE is running this event. As we've talked about with you guys before as well, HPE's always been a really special relationship for us. It was really the first relationship that we sort of established over eight years ago. And so from our point of view, it's got a long, rich heritage, that level of trust and desire for growth has been fantastic. And in the recent years as well as both of us have really continued to lean in, it's just continued to grow at a fantastic rate. I mean you would've seen some of the recent results there. Veeam's grown over 20% in the second half of 2019 with IBC. I'm really happy to say that the HPE alliance is growing well in excess of that. And so we're really pleased on how things have continued to evolve. >> Well congratulations on that growth. Yeah, boy, eight years so much has changed. So of course, I think about HPE and VMware and one of the earliest partners for server virtualization. But HPE's got a broad portfolio. Bring us through where Veeam sits. You know you got solutions like GreenLake out there, of course, traditional virtualization. So give us a little bit of kind of the breadth and depth of engineering work and partnership that you have. >> Yeah, great question Stu. And I think the interesting part of this is when you look at sort of the ecosystem that's out there now and the evolution HPE's gone through in embracing partners, the focus on the portfolio development and engagement between the two companies has reflected that. There are so many different areas that we could work with HPE on, but when we sat down together and we said where can we really provide the best value to our customers, we focused on a few key parts of the portfolio. Storage, obviously, is key. 3PAR, Primera, Nimble, StorONE, Apollo, areas where we've done really strong work over the years and continue to provide great solutions to the customers. Really pleased with how we've increased into SimpliVity. That's a really big push area for us over the last 12 months. And we're starting to see some great success together with that providing really unique solutions to extend the value of SimpliVity into new use cases, complimenting what they already have. And then obviously at Discover a couple of years ago we did a big push with GreenLake. And we're really pleased with how that's moving forwards as well because that's not really as much as a technology type of play, but that's a philosophy play about how we're satisfying the economic and service needs of the customers. So we're really pleased how that's been moving forwards, and that's another really big push for us this year. >> Well excellent. Maybe it would help to illustrate this. Do you have some customer examples? I understand sometimes, if you can share who the the logo is >> Harvey: Sure. >> that's great, otherwise if it needs to be a little more anonymized, that's fine too. >> No I think that's a great question, and the reason why we like talking about these types of things is we do thousands of orders a year with HPE. It's a really rich partnership on a global basis. If I remember correctly, last time we had over 100 countries where we've done deals together, so it's really nice to see it be appeared as on a global basis. A couple of easy ones that come to mind, certainly is White River Health Services. Big medical system solution serving over half a million customers that are out there. And those guys had a massive growth rate of data, 30% growth year over year, and really needed to make sure that that availability of data was there so that they provided solid solutions to their customers. We partnered up with a solution with StorONE and provided them with a fantastic amount of savings per year on their overall solution but also gave them that business continuity that they were looking at. So I think that's a great example. If we move over to Europe though there's another good market for us where we're seeing really success, great success together. The Metropolitan Thames Valley is a very large housing authorities are a very different virtual but shows the wide applicability of the solution, where they were having trouble looking at the ability to put a full disaster recovery plan into place, And obviously contingencies is a key topic right now. So we worked with HPE and then we've really put in great solution that not only reduced the ability to recover from seven days to less than 30 minutes, but we also managed to be more efficient with the amount rack utilization that was in place for them as well. So economic support, very critical business continuity support, and obviously a unified solution to allow them to be in a scenario where they knew that the IT partners they were working with were fully in unison so there was never any service question if they needed any support. So a couple of really good examples from around the world. >> You know, I wonder if we can touch a little bit on the competitive dynamics here. So eight years ago, HP had its own data protectant. When HP split that piece went over to micro focus so it kind of (murmurs) the swim lanes a little bit. But HP has also been increasing their partnership, so Veeam, you're a good partner but there are other partners out. So how do you help differentiate and how do you make you got clean engagements through HPE's channel and with their field? >> Yeah, that's a really good question, and there's a number of different answers to that, but I think that one of the things that will support what I'm about to touch on is that we're really proud that we just got awarded the Global Technology Partner award again this year. This is the second year running for HPE. Last year was the first time a software application partner was provided and now two years in a row, we've demonstrated that the partnership is really valuable for HPE. And I think to your point, Stuart, it comes down to a couple different areas. The first is just the overall attitude, approach, and relationship. Partnerships work when you can turn your back on each other. They work on the assumption that you really have the same vested interest for success and you can roll through some tough times as well as the good times. With good dialogue, with focus on the objectives you are trying to achieve, but also more importantly that you are excited and you enjoy working together. And so, it's a pleasure to spend hours and hours together to come up with something that satisfies the customer pains that you are solving. Now combined with that attitude because to me that attitude is a core foundation, technology's hugely important but if you can't have a business relationship, you can't actually execute that technology position. Now we're fortunate enough as well that you combine that attitude of partnershipping together with the investments and technology that we've done, and that's why we feel like we continue to differentiate. I think it's great that HPE has such a rich ecosystem. I think it's helpful to get focus on what is a huge topic for customers and frankly, the technology world is a complex ecosystem nowadays. But I think you stand out from the rest by focusing on being the most successful, being the best, having the right attitude, making the right investments together to move forward and that's where we've demonstrated, historically, our engineering commitment and our future roadmap commitment, which we're working on right now together heavily combining with a big marketing and sales investment, so all of the facets and the organization come together in a nice, seamless manner. So, you know, trust, I think it's great that they have the depth of ecosystem that's out there, we're just really proud that we continue to be the preferred partner in this space and we keep getting recognized for the investment that we have with HPE as well. >> Excellent. Yeah, you brought up it is such a complex ecosystem out there. One of the themes that we heard, your show as well as HP Discover, you know, we're talking about customers going through that digital information. You gave us a couple of customer examples, but maybe some big themes, what're you hearing? You know, how do the (murmurs) markets align between Veeam and HPE? >> Yeah, great question. And I think that is another great example where when you use the topic of data transformation, it's a really broad discussion. You know, what we've tried to do is focus on the areas that we provide the most value to customers right now. And I think that focuses us down and data protection powered by intelligence storage, which is a really key topic for a lot of our joint customers that are out there. We really want to make sure we can extend your data management from on-premise to the cloud. That's a really key area we're working with the Simplivity team on. And then finally, the consumption-based data management working very closely with GreenLake. And the (murmurs) of all of those solutions satisfied the plethora of needs that the customers have on storage of data availability. And I think that from that point of view, that's where keeping that focus on what is solving pains today, is why were having such great success together. So I think from that basis, we found that that helps the sales teams identify and satisfy the needs of the customer, It helps us get clarity on execution, and more importantly, keeps us in the scenario where we got really clear bars for success to make sure that this partnership is not just a, I call it a website partnership, but a real partnership that's driving key revenues, key (murmurs) leadership, and frankly, key solutions for the customers. >> Yeah, if you talk about where your data lives and how Veeam could support across multiple environments. There's the technical pieces which Veeam's done a good job on and I think people understand pretty well. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the financial piece of things. How do you make sure, you know, especially with a deep partner like HPE, that you make it seamless as companies are trying to move more towards the SaaS and Opex models, and that it's not getting understanding, full control of what my billing is, and how these things go together. >> Yeah, it's a really good point, and I think there's sort of a capital facet to that. You know, the first part is, on a global basis across all of the segments that we've worked together on, especially if when you look at the success we have at the higher end price together, and the high end commercial. You have to be in a situation where you can support the financial structure that they have as a business. And that's looking at it whether or not it's a traditional Capex employment related to more of the traditional HP solutions, or looking at the flexibility of the Veeam licensing combined with that so they can have the choice that they desire. As well as moving down that path, that if they decide they want to move through a more consumption-based type of position by having that seamless integration with GreenLake as well, you get through a scenario where you can find the right solution for their needs and then the economic structure is really a choice for them, taking away a lot of that pain imposition. Now what we're seeing overall to that point too, which I think is also interesting is customers are going through evolution. If you go back a number of years, every conversation and topic was related to public cloud and it's still a huge area of focus. But, I've also seen a lot of organization especially at the higher end, really start to look at how they can take a lot of their consumption-based economics and bring it on-premise because they want to make sure that the reaction position they got, they're getting their data back is within their premise as well. And so that's why we're really enjoying a lot of success together because we can synergize the flexibility of the HPE offerings with the commercial offerings of (murmurs) Veeam, and be in a scenario where it's almost a perfect fit for most customers. And we try not to force them down a specific path because I think those days are gone, but customers want to look at the economic or the budget constraints they've got today and find the best fit, but they want that best fit without compromising on their overall support they get, and they want the scenario, like we have with HPE where it's fully on their price box, single supplier, single throat to choke, making sure were in unison, and they've got continued investment moving forward in the portfolio (murmurs). >> Excellent. Well final question I have for you is in the general market place, people often get stuck in their head to how they think about a company. Veeam is such a close partner to HPE. (murmurs) has thousands of customers with them. Give our viewers a little bit of how should people be thinking about HPE in 2020, and then also give us the final take away for Veeam and HPE. >> Yeah, great question. I mean, I've been working with HPE now a multitude of, overall over six years now. And the evolution that we're seeing is fantastic. I think that my view on how you should see HPE is, a trusted advisor related to talking about the transformation you're going through your data, and also a clear, solidified portfolio, especially in the storage realm related to the control of the data. Following the data from the origination point of the application all the way through. And so I think from that point of view, there's clarity with portfolio, there's a comprehensive interlock of the portfolio. And so from that point of view, I think there's calmness in the discussion. What I would say is that (murmurs) further and how to look at the HP (murmurs) relationship is. That continued investment on future proofing and hopefully some exciting announcements as we move through the year, will demonstrate that we are constantly making sure that we're differentiating at the frontier (mic cuts) for the customer. And you can see that in the growth of our enterprise business together. You could see that in the growth of high end commercial business together, and you can also see the fact that our customers are growing every single year together. So when we put these solutions in place, they're loving them and they're growing them year over year, and very quickly as well. So we're seeing a very high percentage of our customers reorder within the first year because they're really enjoying the unification of the solution. And so hopefully, the HP customers should look at that, through confidence, through calmness, and be really pleased that the market leader approach will indict protection by Veeam and they're primary (murmurs) leader when it comes to technology with HPE, together provide a really powerful solution, and we're really pleased on the customer satisfaction results we're getting from this work. >> All right. Well, David Harvey, thank you so much for the updates. Looking forward to some of those innovations that you talked about coming later this year. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks so much. I really appreciate the time and enjoying Discover, and I hope everybody's having a great event. >> All right, stay tuned for launch of theCUBE's coverage, HPE Discover 2020, the Virtual Experience. I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks as always for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover Virtual experience Brought to you by HP >>Welcome back. I'm stew Minuteman. And this is the Cube's coverage of HP. Discover the virtual experience. Gonna be digging into some primary storage. Happy to welcome to the program. First time guest. Former Assad. He's the vice president and general manager for both primary storage and data services with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Omar, thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks to happy to be here. Thanks for the invite. All >>right, so So why did you start out? Frame out for us? Kind of Ah, where primary storage fits in in the portfolio in your charter >>there. Thanks. Yeah. So primary storage is a combination off hp, primera, HP, nimble and all the associative software and data management services that go along with it. We are part of the broader HP storage umbrella. In addition to that, we have the HB h C I business and the HP complete partnerships that partner with our go to market partners and bring total intentions for our customers. From my perspective on the general manager for Primary nimble and all the data management services that come along with it. So that's what people. The primary storage portfolio mainly centered around block services for our for our customers. >>Excellent. Well, Omer, you know, you've been in the storage industry for quite a while. We always know that the only constant in our industry is that things are always changing. However, here in 2020 it's a little bit more unusual than normal. Give us a little bit of insight as to you know, how your customers responding, how HPE is helping them during the current global pandemic. >>Obviously, you know, across the industry across the world, it's a very difficult time, you know, definitely where customers are facing some challenges from our perspective. You know, one of the biggest things that we noticed was in these unprecedented safety is the paramount eso concern for each one of your customers and for HP ways in our fellow sort of workers around the globe, the access to the data center has costs, um, some challenges for our customers, obviously for capacity expansion purposes, for scaling up work from home needs. You can do all of them. But for all of our customers, you know, as the pandemic kid in the shelter in place. Global policies came across the access to it. Did the data center became a big problems? Well, right, so just, you know, a lot of vendors that make changes to it. After these solutions off an HP perspective, we added a couple of policies, like 90 days payment difference. In addition to that, a bunch of financing capabilities to allow our customers to focus on that cash flow help on not to worry about some of the purchase decisions, but it comes from a storage perspective now. In addition to that, HP was also fortunate enough to have to cloud storage services. We have data protection online services. They have block storage online services. These are just sort of cloud based services that are available in conjunction with our portfolio to our customers. So one of the unique ways that we were able to help our customers is for without accessing their data center, they were able to slip a lot of their own from storage and former Peter snapshots or data migrations into our cloud storage subscriptions, which we expect extended to our customers and they were able to expand, and we're just in time capacity to scale up there in data center needs without actually accessing the business. So some down perspective. It was very profound experience that we had in order to sort of keep our customers operations running while we were shipping at psychopathy an expansion capacity for them as they scale sort of work from home operation. Like VD. I database scale up as as they adapted to these sort of uncertain times. >>Well, excellent. Absolutely. A spotlight has been shown on you can the products and services with liver for what we needed. That flexibility that you mentioned so critically important. Great to see things like the financial pieces to to make sure you can help companies in these uncertain times here at Discover. So, of course, let's tee up and not keep things waiting any longer. Uh, what's new? Ah, for your piece. Polio. >>So there are a couple of the new announcements that we're bringing to the market over here, right? And one of the biggest ones that I'm most excited by is obviously autonomous operations and ai ops that we're now extending, uh, for our customers for actually taking action. So what that means is, we were sort of the first to market with AI ops, which is our info side technology that was built off the top three nimble storage acquisition that happened within HP. Then we sort of extended that to, uh, to be primarily, we extended that to HP three par on then Also, we're now extending that to be simplicity so that the enormity of the size off this AI operation on automation that it just continues to grow right from. From from a primary perspective, especially, we're now bringing intelligent and intelligence autonomous operations on two primary as well, which basically means all the models and all the AI engines that we have trained for analytics for helping our customers. Our 13 workloads for providing proactive support and pro active recommendations to impose a couple of those models are now ported into our tiers of the portfolio. That is HP primarily so not only can we make recommendations in primary, but now we have also made the Kent. If the customer allows us to go ahead and actually implement those decisions, eso, Primerica and automatically adjusts without having the user intervene because in tier zero applications, the time to intervene is very, very no food non existent. So given certain set of parameters and given a certain set of policies. Http Primary. I can now execute the recommendations autonomously and make real time changes, the workloads and profiled in US policies to keep our customers Boeing rather than just a recommendation. Again, this is the first of its class for AI, and autonomous applications with intelligence is not only in recommendations but now also going ahead and executing. That's decisions from a primary storage perspective. >>O Mara with the things that you were just talking about, this bring us inside. You know what's changing inside the customers that you're working with, you know, traditionally, storage. You know, you had a storage administrator, people thinking about you know, the speeds and feeds and all the knobs that they can turn with storage. When you start talking about autonomous and AI functions coming in, I have to expect there's different requirements from the customer and there's different people engage with it s o, you know, bring us inside what you're seeing at the customer side. >>It's actually interesting you here you could explode on, right, So from a customer perspective, it's always you know the the do more with less right that is happening on the training side that is happening on the customer persona side. So, you know, simplifying the portfolio. Is it absolutely one of the biggest, therefore, customers? They're the general push the words the I t generalist back there. Management perspective. From a perspective, there's a lot of simple City that is desired. So one of the biggest things that we have changed with 18 primarily is that if the industry's first tier zero platform, it gives 100% availability guarantee s so it really simplifies from a responsibility perspective from a customer's perspective, where we picked up most of the risk by giving the customers 100% availability guarantee. It's the industry's first year zero platform that is self upgradable, self installing and now also self autonomously executing operations on the customer's behalf. So again, from a monitoring perspective, from from an installation perspective from a day to day operational cost perspective, it's really, really ties into that. Do more with less team from a customer's perspective, right? And then the maximum from an AI ops perspective. You know, Prospect Analytics. We were the 1st 1 to bring that to the market. Now we've extended up to it across the portfolio on and then some recommendations. Perspective. Not only there are these proactive recommendations, but then also, if the customer allows us, we will go ahead and execute those recommendations in order to 24 by seven mission critical operations continuously running and continuously adapting to changing conditions from a customer perspective and then on the customer side. Again, there's a lot more simple a city that has been enforced into the environment because again yourself installed so complete, self automate, self autonomous, sort of storage operations happy introduced in tier zero environment. And I think that's the biggest breakthrough in bringing that simplicity in the Tier zero. >>Excellent. You also you mentioned that one of the things that companies air leveraging now when they need to be working remote is the remote backup capability. Bring us the latest as to what he's doing when it comes to a cloud backup. >>So against what you raised, an important point right? One of the biggest things that this pandemic has so far made the ICTY operational staff realized that although there could be an outage, but there could be an outage of the kind where the systems might be running. But you won't have access to the data center, right? This shelter in place has been huge learning lesson for for operation teams. Right, So one of the things that we have now introduced, you know HP was with nimble storage earlier was one of the first technologies to have a cloud storage block. Services available to our customers now have expanded that portfolio, and now we have cloud volumes also available. So when you buy HD primera as your peers zero offering or if you buy a 80 nimble storage as your mid range Tier one offering with both, we now include http cloud volumes of backup services. So not only do you have access to on Prem storage, but you have access to backup capabilities, which are not managed by HP for our customers as well. And then, in addition to that, the mobility technology that sources Depot that transfers these backups into an HP and managed back up service is also included with the piece of software and then, in addition to that, we have also made Hve cloud backup available to our highest partner. So whether you were seen whether you're calm vault, we have source site plug ins available so our customers water on our partner ecosystem and also take advantage of that. One of the biggest changes that you know, as you know, Reid rate at this point, it is included with our portfolio is included from a software perspective. No particular physical changes need to be made at the data center, and customers can take advantage of that. You know, as soon as they start consuming the the primera or nimble boxes along along with the rest of the portfolio. >>Yeah, you know, back up to the cloud was one of the earliest cloud storage solutions that we saw there. It's good to hear you say that you you've got kind of integrations with partners and with your portfolio, anything else that you point out that really differentiates what HP is doing compared to other cloud providers or other software solutions out >>there. So to do things right, So from from a data protection perspective, this entire software portfolio is sort of bundled in when, when you when you look at HP primera or when you look at HP nimble like one of the biggest different shading factors is that the entire encapsulation off a solution from a workload perspective is Write your application autonomous support. So whether you're running sequel Oracle DB next gen applications. The awareness of these workloads is present inside of info site, and it is also present inside of the boxes. And then he regards to that their lifecycle management. Uh, there, you know, data visibility's recovery capabilities there Diyar capabilities that entire equal system and and what what it takes to make a little work. It's also built into HD primarily and being nimble environments and proactive support off visibility and lifecycle. Operational support of these workloads that the wave missed from an intelligence perspective is built in with people set right. So one of the largest single or the most critical difference is that it's not a piecemeal solutions. The entire ecosystem portfolio from a protection lifecycle management. We are just a death is completely talk to and incorporated. When you buy any particular aspect of the V block storage. >>Excellent. Well, when we talk about primary storage, one of the big impacts on that market has been that the wave of hyper converged infrastructure. You know, I've had conversations. Everything from your Green Lake offering is how to have a managed service with many options with h c. I underneath that, of course, HP purchase simplicity. Help us understand. You know where you think HD I fits today and how that relates toe overall, your section of the market >>Absolutely right. So AI has had a profound impact in simplifying the consumption of the data center. Right? 80 I, according to me, is an experience. It's an infrastructure consumption experience. Ah, storage, networking. Compute or abstracted out, and you start to consume that as Watson Machine Instances to simplify your operations. Right? So from an HP perspective, 80 simplicity is one for our largest offerings in the portfolio for, you know, for smaller data centers. For for the Generalists, for the Edge Cases HP Simplicity Simplicity is one of the preferred choices that the customers built right now. In addition to that, we've also introduced DHC I, which is this ability aggregated 80. Either this aggregated 80 a sort of on the name it is, it is sort of a conversation starter that that's why we love it. But again, in keeping to do the nature off. You know, it's the eyes of consumption. Once you Once you put the infrastructure in the closet and you shut the closet door, you should not be able to sort of tell whether it's a single box that's running the entire portfolio. Are this aggregated storage, networking and compute instances that are running the portfolio? From our perspective, you know the flexibility that the customer has from a consumption model. So storage, networking and compute in a single model in a single chassis, if that is simply for for the customer. But then if the compute and the networking and the storage needs need to still independently but yet maintain the same simplicity off the consumption infrastructure, we offer that use case as well. And that's where DHC I based on HP Nimble storage with HP Prime servers and Aruba EMC switches all consumed as a single software comes into play, so all the flexibility are in worse. But the simplicity of hyper converged is consolidated, and then, from a from a financial perspective, the customers can buy on cap backs, and all PACs basically relate or not be like it's up to the customer But again, then the focuses focuses one on the hardware. Stupid focuses on what the software consumption layers are. And then from a flexibility perspective, yet being able to scale storage and networking independently should the customer want that flexibility? >>Yeah. You know, without getting into too much of the naming conventions we actually, we keep on the research arm. We had put out what we call server san, and it was looking at the architectures that the hyper scale environments were doing, which was even different. Really? You bake, you know, the scalability that you need into the apple Asian, Um, and therefore, some of the underlying software which in scale you do different agency. I dhc I You know any other prefix in there? We like to have an umbrella rather than, you know, just a bucket that you put things in with rigid environment. Okay, so, uh, I guess the final takeaways, you know, any other key things that you want point out from HP Discover, You know, any sessions, papers like that people make that they take away from this week's event. >>They obviously autonomous operations with info site models being actually executed on on Prem storage is one of the biggest takeaways. In addition to that, we brought, you know, mission critical VR to all three par both primary and nimble storage platforms. A swell so three market VR where cloud storage is also integrated as part of that VR story. So you can have synchronous replication between two sites and then a bunker site, whether that be 1/3 autonomous data center or it can >>be it be >>cloud story off as part of that that here, in addition to that, we introduced all the Emmy primera on and be introduced storage class memory on the nimble storage architectures as well. So obviously further pushing the envelope, Sof hp primarily of porn or massively, Pablo, all in the in the system and then nimble storage, which is our cash, accelerated our connector. Now, as another tier of storage class memory. So we give you the performance of storage class memory. At the price of all flash arrays are some of the biggest capabilities that we're putting forward. And then lastly, you know, in regards to started automation, you know, we've all support on it be primary, uh, you know, be able. Was legacy already supported on It's the Nimble. It's combining Primera Nimble 34 over there gives it one of the largest adoption and promoters of vehicles out there with the largest people in small. Based on the last but not believe we're now introducing, you know, Google and costs. And we will see a size based dinner. Uh, started automation drivers for both HP nimble as well as for you know, uh, HP primary. So kubernetes CS i compliant container set of implementation drivers have now implemented in both the platforms that are available for general use for our customers that prefer to run bare metal or container based workloads or for their production. >>Alright, well, Omar, no shortage of updates that you give our audience to be able to dig in and find out the latest on your portfolio. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Absolutely pleasure to be here. Thanks so much. >>Alright, stay with us for lots more coverage. HP, discover virtual experience on stew minimum. Thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Male Voice: From around the globe, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover Virtual Experience brought to you by HPE. >> Hi everybody, you're watching theCUBE. And this is Dave Vellante in our continuous coverage of the Discover 2020 Virtual Experience, HPE's virtual event, theCUBE is here, theCUBE virtual. We're really excited, we got a great session here. We're going to dig deep into machine intelligence and artificial intelligence. Dr. Arti Garg is here. She's the Head of Advanced AI Solutions and Technologies at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. And she's joined by Dr. Sorin Cheran, who is the Vice President of AI Strategy and Solutions Group at HPE. Folks, great to see you. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi. >> Hi, nice to meet you, hello! >> Dr. Cheran, let's start with you. Maybe talk a little bit about your role. You've had a variety of roles and maybe what's your current situation at HPE? >> Hello! Hi, so currently at HPE, I'm driving the Artificial Intelligence Strategy and Solution group who is currently looking at how do we bring solutions across the HPE portfolio, looking at every business unit, but also on the various geos. At the same time, the team is responsible for building the strategy around the AI for the entire company. We're working closely with the field, we're working closely with the things that are facing the customers every day. And we're also working very closely with the various groups in order to make sure that whatever we build holds water for the entire company. >> Dr. Garg, maybe you could share with us your focus these days? >> Yeah, sure, so I'm also part of the AI Strategy and Solutions team under Sorin as our new vice president in that role, and what I'm focused on is really trying to understand, what are some of the emerging technologies, whether those be things like new processor architectures, or advanced software technologies that could really enhance what we can offer to our customers in terms of AI and exploring what makes sense and how do we bring them to our customers? What are the right ways to package them into solutions? >> So everybody's talking about how digital transformation has been accelerated. If you're not digital, you can't transact business. AI infused into every application. And now people are realizing, "Hey, we can't solve all the world's problems with labor." What are you seeing just in terms of AI being accelerated throughout the portfolio and your customers? >> So that's a very good idea, because we've been talking about digital transformation for some time now. And I believe most of our customers believed initially that the one thing they have is time thinking that, "Oh yes I'm going to somehow at one point apply AI "and somehow at one point "I'm going to figure out how to build the data strategy, "or how to use AI in my different line of businesses." What happened with COVID-19 and in this area is that we lost one thing: time. So I think discussed what they see in our customers is the idea of accelerating their data strategy accelerating, moving from let's say an environment where they would compute center models per data center models trying to understand how do they capture data, how they accelerate the adoption of AI within the various business units, why? Because they understand that currently the way they are actually going to the business changed completely, they need to understand how to adapt a new business model, they need to understand how to look for value pools where there are none as well. So most of our customers today, while initially they spend a lot of time in an never ending POC trying to investigate where do they want to go. Currently they do want to accelerate the application of AI models, the build of data strategies, how then they use all of this data? How do they capture the data to make sure that they look at new business models, new value pools, new customer experience and so on and so forth. So I think what they've seen in the past, let's say three to six months is that we lost time. But the shift towards an adoption of analytics, AI and data strategy is accelerated a lot, simply because customers realize that they need to get ahead of the game. >> So Dr. Garg, what if you could talk about how HPE is utilizing machine intelligence during this pandemic, maybe helping some of your customers, get ahead of it, or at least trying to track it. How are you applying AI in this context? >> So I think that Sorin sort of spoke to one of the things with adopting AI is, it's very transformational for a business so it changes how you do things. You need to actually adopt new processes to take advantage of it. So what I would say is right now we're hearing from customers who recognize that the context in which they are doing their work is completely different. And they're exploring how AI can help them really meet the challenges of those context. So one example might be how can AI and computer vision be coupled together in a way that makes it easier to reopen stores, or ensures that people are distancing appropriately in factories. So I would say that it's the beginning of these conversations as customers as businesses try to figure out how do we operate in the new reality that we have? And I think it's a pretty exciting time. And I think just to the point that Sorin just made, there's a lot of openness to new technologies that there wasn't before, because there's this willingness to change the business processes to really take advantage of any technologies. >> So Dr. Cheran, I probably should have started here but help us understand HPE's overall strategy with regard to AI. I would certainly know that you're using AI to improve IT, the InfoSite product and capability via the Nimble acquisition, et cetera, and bringing that across the portfolio. But what's the strategy for HPE? >> So, yeah, thank you. That's (laughs) a good question. So obviously you started with a couple of our acquisition in the past because obviously Nimble and then we talked a lot about our efforts to bring InfoSite across the portfolio. But currently, in the past couple of months, let's say close to a year, we've been announcing a lot of other acquisitions and we've been talking about Tuteybens, we've been talking about Scytale we've been talking about Cray, and so on, so forth, and now what we're doing at HPE is to bring all of this IP together into one place and try to help our customers within their region out. If you're looking at what, for example, what did they actually get when Cray play was not only the receiver, but we also acquire and they also have a lot of software and a lot of IP around optimization and so on and so forth. Also within our own labs, we've been investigating AI around like, for example, some learning or accelerators or a lot of other activity. So right now what we're trying to help our customers with is to understand how do they lead from the production stage, from the POC stage to the production stage. So (mumbles) what we are trying to do is we are trying to accelerate their adoption of AI. So simply starting from an optimized platform infrastructure up to the solution they are actually going to apply or to use to solve their business problems and wrapping all of that around with services either consumed on-prem as a service and so on. So practically what we want to do is we want to help our customers optimize, orchestrate and operationalize AI. Because the problem of our customers is not to start in our PLC, the problem is how do I then take everything that I've been developing or working on and then put it in production at the edge, right? And then keep it, maintaining production in order to get insights and then actually take actions that are helping the enterprise. So basically, we want to be data driven assets in cloud enable, and we want to help our customers move from POC into production. >> Or do you work with obviously a lot of data folks, companies or data driven data scientists, you are hands on practitioners in this regard. One of the challenges that I hear a lot from customers is they're trying to operationalize AI put AI into production, they have data in silos, they spend all their time, munging data, you guys have made a number of acquisitions. Not a list of which is prey, obviously map of, data specialist, my friend Kumar's company Blue Data. So what do you see as HPE's role in terms of helping companies operationalize AI. >> So I think that a big part of operationalizing AI moving away from the PLC to really integrate AI into the business processes you have and also the sort of pre existing IT infrastructure you talked about, you might already have siloed data. That's sort of something we know very well at HPE, we understand a lot of the IT that enterprises already have the incumbent IT and those systems. We also understand how to put together systems and integrated systems that include a lot of different types of computing infrastructure. So whether that being different types of servers and different types of storage, we have the ability to bring all of that together. And then we also have the software that allows you to talk to all of these different components and build applications that can be deployed in the real world in a way that's easy to maintain, and scale and grow as your AI applications will almost invariably get more complex involved, more outputs involved and more input. So one of the important things as customers try to operationalize AI is think is knowing that it's not just solving the problem you're currently solving. It's not just operationalizing the solution you have today, it's ensuring that you can continue to operationalize new things or additional capabilities in the future. >> I want to talk a little bit about AI for good. We talked about AI taking away jobs, but the reality is, when you look at the productivity data, for instance, in the United States, in Europe, it's declining and it has for the last several decades and so I guess my point is that we're not going to be able to solve some of the world problems in the coming decades without machine intelligence. I mean you think about health care, you think about feeding populations, you think about obviously paying things like pandemics, climate change, energy alternatives, et cetera, productivity is coming down. Machines are potential opportunity. So there's an automation imperative. And you feel, Dr. Cheran, the people who are sort of beyond that machines replacing human's issue? Is that's still an item or has the pandemic sort of changed that? >> So I believe it is, so it used to be a very big item, you're right. And every time we were speaking at a conference and every time you're actually looking at the features of AI, right? Two scenarios are coming to plays, right? The first one where machines are here, actually take a walk, and then the second one as you know even a darker version where terminator is coming, yes and so forth, right? So basically these are the two, is the lesser evil in the greater evil and so on and so forth. And we still see that regular thing coming over and over again. And I believe that 2019 was the year of reckoning, where people are trying to realize that not only we can actually take responsible AI, but we can actually create an AI that is trustworthy, an AI that is fair and so on and so forth. And that we also understood in 2019 it was highly debated everywhere, which part of our jobs are going to be replaced like the parts that are mundane, or that can actually be easily automated and so on and so forth. With the COVID-19 what happened is that people are starting to look at AI differently, why? Because people are starting to look at data differently. And looking at data differently, how do I actually create this core of data which is trusted, secure and so on and so forth, and they are trying to understand that if the data is trusted and secure somehow, AI will be trusted and secure as well. Now, if I actually shifted forward, as you said, and then I try to understand, for example on the manufacturing floor, how do I add more machines? Or how do I replace humans with machines simply because, I need to make sure that I am able to stay in production and so on and so forth. From their perspective, I don't believe that the view of all people are actually looking at AI from the job marketplace perspective changed a lot. The view that actually changes how AI is helping us better certain prices, how AI is helping us, for example, in health care, but the idea of AI actually taking part of the jobs or automating parts of the jobs, we are not actually past yet, even if 2018 and even more so in 2019, it was the year also where actually AI through automation replaced the number of jobs but at the same time because as I was saying the first year where AI created more jobs it's because once you're displacing in one place, they're actually creating more work more opportunities in other places as well. But still, I don't believe the feeling changed. But we realize that AI is a lot more valuable and it can actually help us through some of our darkest hours, but also allow us to get better and faster insights as well. >> Well, machines have always replaced humans and now for the first time in history doing so in a really cognitive functions in a big way. But I want to ask you guys, I'll start with Dr. Arti, a series of questions that I think underscore the impact of AI and the central role that it plays in companies digital transformations, we talk about that a lot. But the questions that I'm going to ask you, I think will hit home just in terms of some hardcore examples, and if you have others I'd love to hear them but I'm going to start with Arti. So when do you think Dr. or machines will be able to make better diagnoses than doctors? We're actually there today already? >> So I think it depends a little bit on how you define that. And I'm just going to preface this by saying both of my parents are physicians. So I have a little bit of bias in this space. But I think that humans can bring creativity in a certain type of intelligence that it's not clear to me. We even know how to model with the computer. And so diagnoses have sometimes two components. One is recognizing patterns and being able to say, "I'm going to diagnose this disease that I've seen before." I think that we are getting to the place where there are certain examples. It's just starting to happen where you might be able to take the data that you need to make a diagnosis as well understood. A machine may be able to sort of recognize those subtle patterns better. But there's another component of doing diagnosis is when it's not obvious what you're looking for. You're trying to figure out what is the actual sort of setup diseases I might be looking at. And I think that's where we don't really know how to model that type of inspiration and creativity that humans still bring to things that they do, including medical diagnoses. >> So Dr. Cheran my next question is, when do you think that owning and driving your own vehicle will become largely obsolete? >> (laughs) Well, I believe my son is six year old now. And I believe, I'm working with a lot of companies to make sure that he will not get his driving license with his ID, right? So depending who you're asking and depending the level of autonomy that you're looking at, but you just mentioned the level five most likely. So there are a lot of dates out there so some people actually say 2030. I believe that my son in most of the cities in US but also most of the cities in Europe, by the time he's 18 in let's say 2035, I'll try to make sure that I'm working with the right companies not to allow them to get the driving license. >> I'll let my next question is from maybe both of you can answer. Do you take the traditional banks will lose control of payment system? >> So that's an interesting question, because I think it's broader than an AI question, right? I think that it goes into some other emerging technologies, including distributed ledgers and sort of the more secure forms of blockchain. I think that's a challenging question to my mind, because it's bigger than the technology. It's got Economic and Policy implications that I'm not sure I can answer. >> Well, that's a great answer, 'cause I agree with you already. I think that governments and banks have a partnership. It's important partnership for social stability. But similar we've seen now, Dr. Cheran in retail, obviously the COVID-19 has affected retail in a major way, especially physical retail, do you think that large retail stores are going to go away? I mean, we've seen many in chapter 11. At this point, how much of that is machine intelligence versus just social change versus digital transformation? It's an interesting question, isn't it? >> So I think most of the... Right now the retailers are here to stay I guess for the next couple of years. But moving forward, I think their capacity of adapting to stores like to walk in stores or to stores where basically we just go in and there are no shop assistants and just you don't even need the credit card to pay you're actually being able to pay either with your face or with your phone or with your small chips and so on and so forth. So I believe currently in the next couple of years, obviously they are here to stay. Moving forward then we'll get artificial intelligence, or robotics applied everywhere in the store and so on and so forth. Most likely their capacity of adapting to the new normal, which is placing AI everywhere and optimizing the walk in through predicting when and how to guide the customers to the shop, and so on and so forth, would allow them to actually survive. I don't believe that everything is actually going to be done online, especially from the retailer perspective. Most of the... We've seen a big shift at COVID-19. But what I was reading the other day, especially in France that the counter has opened again, we've seen a very quick pickup in the retailers of people that actually visiting the stores as well. So it's going to be some very interesting five to 10 years, and then most of the companies that have adapted to the digital transformation and to the new normal I think they are here to stay. Some of them obviously are going to take sometime. >> I mean, I think it's an interesting question too that you really sort of triggering in my mind is when you think about the framework for how companies are going to come back and come out of this, it's not just digital, that's a big piece of it, like how digital businesses, can they physically distance? I mean, I don't know how sports arenas are going to be able to physically distance that's going to be interesting to see how essential is the business and if you think about the different industries that it really is quite different across those industries. And obviously, digital plays a big factor there, but maybe we could end on that your final thoughts and maybe any other other things you'd like to share with our audience? >> So I think one of the things that's interesting anytime you talk about adopting a new technology, and right now we're happening to see this sort of huge uptick in AI adoption happening right at the same time but this sort of massive shift in how we live our lives is happening and sort of an acceptance, I think that can't just go back to the way things work as you mentioned, they'll probably be continued sort of desire to maintain social distancing. I think that it's going to force us to sort of rethink why we do things the way we do now, a lot, the retail, environments that we have the transportation solutions that we have, they were adapted in many cases in a very different context, in terms of what people need to do on a day-to-day basis within their life. And then what were the sort of state of technologies available. We're sort of being thrust and forced to reckon with like, what is it I really need to do to live my life and then what are the technologies I have available to meet to answer that and I think, it's really difficult to predict right now what people will think is important about a retail experience, I wouldn't be surprised if you start to find in person retail actually be much less, technologically aided, and much more about having the ability to talk to a human being and get their opinion and maybe the tactile sense of being able to like touch new clothes, or whatever it is. And so it's really difficult I think right now to predict what things are going to look like maybe even a year or two from now from that perspective. I think that what I feel fairly confident is that people are really starting to understand and engage with new technologies, and they're going to be really open to thinking about what those new technologies enable them to do in this sort of new way of living that we're going to probably be entering pretty soon. >> Excellent! All right, Sorin, bring us home. We'll give you the last word on this topic. >> Now, so I wanted to... I agree with Arti because what these three months of staying at home and of busy shutting down allowed us to do was to actually have a very big reset. So let's say a great reset but basically we realize that all the things we've taken from granted like our freedom of movement, our technology, our interactions with each other, and also for suddenly we realize that everything needs to change. And the only one thing that we actually kept doing is interacting with each other remotely, interacting with each other with our peers in the house, and so on and so forth. But the one thing that stayed was generating data, and data was here to stay because we actually leave traces of data everywhere we go, we leave traces of data when we put our watch on where we are actually playing with our phone, or to consume digital and so on and so forth. So what these three months reinforced for me personally, but also for some of our customers was that the data is here to stay. And even if the world shut down for three months, we did not generate less data. Data was there on the contrary, in some cases, more data. So the data is the main enabler for the new normal, which is going to pick up and the data will actually allow us to understand how to increase customer experience in the new normal, most likely using AI. As I was saying at the beginning, how do I actually operate new business model? How do I find, who do I partner with? How do I actually go to market together? How do I make collaborations more secure, and so on and so forth. And finally, where do I actually find new value pools? For example, how do I actually still enjoy for having a beer in a pub, right? Because suddenly during the COVID-19, that wasn't possible. I have a very nice place around the corner, but it's actually cheaply stuff. I'm not talking about beer but in general, I mean, so the finance is different the pools of data, the pools (mumbles) actually, getting values are different as well. So data is here to stay, and the AI definitely is going to be accelerated because it needs to use data to allow us to adopt the new normal in the digital transformation. >> A lot of unknowns but certainly machines and data are going to play a big role in the coming decade. I want to thank Dr. Arti Garg and Dr. Sorin Cheran for coming on theCUBE. It's great to have you. Thank you for a wonderful conversation. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks so much. >> All right. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE and the HPE 2020 Virtual Experience. We'll be right back right after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: It's theCUBE! Covering the Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference 2020 brought to you by Vertica. >> Hi, everybody. Welcome back. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of the Vertica Virtual Big Data Conference. It was, of course, going to be in Boston at the Encore Hotel. Win big with big data with the new casino but obviously Coronavirus has changed all that. Our hearts go out and we are empathy to those people who are struggling. We are going to continue our wall-to-wall coverage of this conference and we're here with Larry Lancaster who's the founder and CTO of Zebrium. Larry, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Hi, thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. So first question, why did you start Zebrium? >> You know, I've been dealing with machine data a long time. So for those of you who don't know what that is, if you can imagine servers or whatever goes on in a data center or in a SAS shop. There's data coming out of those servers, out of those applications and basically, you can build a lot of cool stuff on that. So there's a lot of metrics that come out and there's a lot of log files that come. And so, I've built this... Basically spent my career building that sort of thing. So tools on top of that or products on top of that. The problem is that since at least log files are completely unstructured, it's always doing the same thing over and over again, which is going in and understanding the data and extracting the data and all that stuff. It's very time consuming. If you've done it like five times you don't want to do it again. So really, my idea was at this point with machine learning where it's at there's got to be a better way. So Zebrium was founded on the notion that we can just do all that automatically. We can take a pile of machine data, we can turn it into a database, and we can build stuff on top of that. And so the company is really all about bringing that value to the market. >> That's cool. I want to get in to that, just better understand who you're disrupting and understand that opportunity better. But before I do, tell us a little bit about your background. You got kind of an interesting background. Lot of tech jobs. Give us some color there. >> Yeah, so I started in the Valley I guess 20 years ago and when my son was born I left grad school. I was in grad school over at Berkeley, Biophysics. And I realized I needed to go get a job so I ended up starting in software and I've been there ever since. I mean, I spent a lot of time at, I guess I cut my teeth at Nedap, which was a storage company. And then I co-founded a business called Glassbeam, which was kind of an ETL database company. And then after that I ended up at Nimble Storage. Another company, EMC, ended up buying the Glassbeam so I went over there and then after Nimble though, which where I build the InfoSight platform. That's where I kind of, after that I was able to step back and take a year and a half and just go into my basement, actually, this is my kind of workspace here, and come up with the technology and actually build it so that I could go raise money and get a team together to build Zebrium. So that's really my career in a nutshell. >> And you've got Hello Kitty over your right shoulder, which is kind of cool >> That's right. >> And then up to the left you got your monitor, right? >> Well, I had it. It's over here, yeah. >> But it was great! Pull it out, pull it out, let me see it. So, okay, so you got that. So what do you do? You just sit there and code all night or what? >> Yeah, that's right. So Hello Kitty's over here. I have a daughter and she setup my workspace here on this side with Hello Kitty and so on. And over on this side, I've got my recliner where I basically lay it all the way back and then I pivot this thing down over my face and put my keyboard on my lap and I can just sit there for like 20 hours. It's great. Completely comfortable. >> That's cool. All right, better put that monitor back or our guys will yell at me. But so, obviously, we're talking to somebody with serious coding chops and I'll also add that the Nimble InfoSight, I think it was one of the best pick ups that HP, HPE, has had in a while. And the thing that interested me about that, Larry, is the ability that the company was able to take that InfoSight and poured it very quickly across its product lines. So that says to me it was a modern, architecture, I'm sure API, microservices, and all those cool buzz words, but the proof is in their ability to bring that IP to other parts of the portfolio. So, well done. >> Yeah, well thanks. Appreciate that. I mean, they've got a fantastic team there. And the other thing that helps is when you have the notion that you don't just build on top of the data, you extract the data, you structure it, you put that in a database, we used Vertica there for that, and then you build on top of that. Taking the time to build that layer is what lets you build a scalable platform. >> Yeah, so, why Vertica? I mean, Vertica's been around for awhile. You remember you had the you had the old RDBMS, Oracles, Db2s, SQL Server, and then the database was kind of a boring market. And then, all of a sudden, you had all of these MPP companies came out, a spade of them. They all got acquired, including Vertica. And they've all sort of disappeared and morphed into different brands and Micro Focus has preserved the Vertica brand. But it seems like Vertica has been able to survive the transitions. Why Vertica? What was it about that platform that was unique and interested you? >> Well, I mean, so they're the first fund to build, what I would call a real column store that's kind of market capable, right? So there was the C-Store project at Berkeley, which Stonebreaker was involved in. And then that became sort of the seed from which Vertica was spawned. So you had this idea of, let's lay things out in a columnar way. And when I say columnar, I don't just mean that the data for every column is in a different set of files. What I mean by that is it takes full advantage of things like run length and coding, and L file and coding, and block--impression, and so you end up with these massive orders of magnitude savings in terms of the data that's being pulled off of storage as well as as it's moving through the pipeline internally in Vertica's query processing. So why am I saying all this? Because it's fundamentally, it was a fundamentally disruptive technology. I think column stores are ubiquitous now in analytics. And I think you could name maybe a couple of projects which are mostly open source who do something like Vertica does but name me another one that's actually capable of serving an enterprise as a relational database. I still think Vertica is unique in being that one. >> Well, it's interesting because you're a startup. And so a lot of startups would say, okay, we're going with a born-in-the-cloud database. Now Vertica touts that, well look, we've embraced cloud. You know, we have, we run in the cloud, we run on PRAM, all different optionality. And you hear a lot of vendors say that, but a lot of times they're just taking their stack and stuffing it into the cloud. But, so why didn't you go with a cloud-native database and is Vertica able to, I mean, obviously, that's why you chose it, but I'm interested from a technologist standpoint as to why you, again, made that choice given all these other choices around there. >> Right, I mean, again, I'm not, so... As I explained a column store, which I think is the appropriate definition, I'm not aware of another cloud-native-- >> Hm, okay. >> I'm aware of other cloud-native transactional databases, I'm not aware of one that has the analytics form it and I've tried some of them. So it was not like I didn't look. What I was actually impressed with and I think what let me move forward using Vertica in our stack is the fact that Eon really is built from the ground up to be cloud-native. And so we've been using Eon almost ever since we started the work that we're doing. So I've been really happy with the performance and with reliability of Eon. >> It's interesting. I've been saying for years that Vertica's a diamond in the rough and it's previous owner didn't know what to do with it because it got distracted and now Micro Focus seems to really see the value and is obviously putting some investments in there. >> Yeah >> Tell me more about your business. Who are you disrupting? Are you kind of disrupting the do-it-yourself? Or is there sort of a big whale out there that you're going to go after? Add some color to that. >> Yeah, so our broader market is monitoring software, that's kind of the high-level category. So you have a lot of people in that market right now. Some of them are entrenched in large players, like Datadog would be a great example. Some of them are smaller upstarts. It's a pretty, it's a pretty saturated market. But what's happened over the last, I'd say two years, is that there's been sort of a push towards what's called observability in terms of at least how some of the products are architected, like Honeycomb, and how some of them are messaged. Most of them are messaged these days. And what that really means is there's been sort of an understanding that's developed that that MTTR is really what people need to focus on to keep their customers happy. If you're a SAS company, MTTR is going to be your bread and butter. And it's still measured in hours and days. And the biggest reason for that is because of what's called unknown unknowns. Because of complexity. Now a days, things are, applications are ten times as complex as they used to be. And what you end up with is a situation where if something is new, if it's a known issue with a known symptom and a known root cause, then you can setup a automation for it. But the ones that really cost a lot of time in terms of service disruption are unknown unknowns. And now you got to go dig into this massive mass of data. So observability is about making tools to help you do that, but it's still going to take you hours. And so our contention is, you need to automate the eyeball. The bottleneck is now the eyeball. And so you have to get away from this notion of a person's going to be able to do it infinitely more efficient and recognize that you need automated help. When you get an alert agent, it shouldn't be that, "Hey, something weird's happening. Now go dig in." It should be, "Here's a root cause and a symptom." And that should be proposed to you by a system that actually does the observing. That actually does the watching. And that's what Zebrium does. >> Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, you're right. The last thing you want is just another alert and it say, "Go figure something out because there's a problem." So how does it work, Larry? In terms of what you built there. Can you take us inside the covers? >> Yeah, sure. So there's really, right now there's two kinds of data that we're ingesting. There's metrics and there's log files. Metrics, there's actually sort of a framework that's really popular in DevOp circles especially but it's becoming popular everywhere, which is called Prometheus. And it's a way of exporting metrics so that scrapers can collect them. And so if you go look at a typical stack, you'll find that most of the open source components and many of the closed source components are going to have exporters that export all their stacks to Prometheus. So by supporting that stack we can bring in all of those metrics. And then there's also the log files. And so you've got host log files in a containerized environment, you've got container logs, and you've got application-specific logs, perhaps living on a host mount. And you want to pull all those back and you want to be able to associate this log that I've collected here is associated with the same container on the same host that this metric is associated with. But now what? So once you've got that, you've got a pile of unstructured logs. So what we do is we take a look at those logs and we say, let's structure those into tables, right? So where I used to have a log message, if I look in my log file and I see it says something like, X happened five times, right? Well, that event types going to occur again and it'll say, X happened six times or X happened three times. So if I see that as a human being, I can say, "Oh clearly, that's the same thing." And what's interesting here is the times that X, that X happened, and that this number read... I may want to know when the numbers happened as a time series, the values of that column. And so you can imagine it as a table. So now I have table for that event type and every time it happens, I get a row. And then I have a column with that number in it. And so now I can do any kind of analytics I want almost instantly across my... If I have all my event types structured that way, every thing changes. You can do real anomaly detection and incident detection on top of that data. So that's really how we go about doing it. How we go about being able to do autonomous monitoring in a way that's effective. >> How do you handle doing that for, like the Spoke app? Do you have to, does somebody have to build a connector to those apps? How do you handle that? >> Yeah, that's a really good question. So you're right. So if I go and install a typical log manager, there'll be connectors for different apps and usually what that means is pulling in the stuff on the left, if you were to be looking at that log line, and it will be things like a time stamp, or a severity, or a function name, or various other things. And so the connector will know how to pull those apart and then the stuff to the right will be considered the message and that'll get indexed for search. And so our approach is we actually go in with machine learning and we structure that whole thing. So there's a table. And it's going to have a column called severity, and timestamp, and function name. And then it's going to have columns that correspond to the parameters that are in that event. And it'll have a name associated with the constant parts of that event. And so you end up with a situation where you've structured all of it automatically so we don't need collectors. It'll work just as well on your home-grown app that has no collectors or no parsers to find or anything. It'll work immediately just as well as it would work on anything else. And that's important, because you can't be asking people for connectors to their own applications. It just, it becomes now they've go to stop what they're doing and go write code for you, for your platform and they have to maintain it. It's just untenable. So you can be up and running with our service in three minutes. It'll just be monitoring those for you. >> That's awesome! I mean, that is really a breakthrough innovation. So, nice. Love to see that hittin' the market. Who do you sell to? Both types of companies and what role within the company? >> Well, definitely there's two main sort of pushes that we've seen, or I should say pulls. One is from DevOps folks, SRE folks. So these are people who are tasked with monitoring an environment, basically. And then you've got people who are in engineering and they have a staging environment. And what they actually find valuable is... Because when we find an incident in a staging environment, yeah, half the time it's because they're tearing everything up and it's not release ready, whatever's in stage. That's fine, they know that. But the other half the time it's new bugs, it's issues and they're finding issues. So it's kind of diverged. You have engineering users and they don't have titles like QA, they're Dev engineers or Dev managers that are really interested. And then you've got DevOps and SRE people there (mumbles). >> And how do I consume your product? Is the SAS... I sign up and you say within three minutes I'm up and running. I'm paying by the drink. >> Well, (laughs) right. So there's a couple ways. So, right. So the easiest way is if you use Kubernetes. So Kubernetes is what's called a container orchestrator. So these days, you know Docker and containers and all that, so now there's container orchestrators have become, I wouldn't say ubiquitous but they're very popular now. So it's kind of on that inflection curve. I'm not exactly sure the penetration but I'm going to say 30-40% probably of shops that were interested are using container orchestrators. So if you're using Kubernetes, basically you can install our Kubernetes chart, which basically means copying and pasting a URL and so on into your little admin panel there. And then it'll just start collecting all the logs and metrics and then you just login on the website. And the way you do that is just go to our website and it'll show you how to sign up for the service and you'll get your little API key and link to the chart and you're off and running. You don't have to do anything else. You can add rules, you can add stuff, but you don't have to. You shouldn't have to, right? You should never have to do any more work. >> That's great. So it's a SAS capability and I just pay for... How do you price it? >> Oh, right. So it's priced on volume, data volume. I don't want to go too much into it because I'm not the pricing guy. But what I'll say is that it's, as far as I know it's as cheap or cheaper than any other log manager or metrics product. It's in that same neighborhood as the very low priced ones. Because right now, we're not trying to optimize for take. We're trying to make a healthy margin and get the value of autonomous monitoring out there. Right now, that's our priority. >> And it's running in the cloud, is that right? AWB West-- >> Yeah, that right. Oh, I should've also pointed out that you can have a free account if it's less than some number of gigabytes a day we're not going to charge. Yeah, so we run in AWS. We have a multi-tenant instance in AWS. And we have a Vertica Eon cluster behind that. And it's been working out really well. >> And on your freemium, you have used the Vertica Community Edition? Because they don't charge you for that, right? So is that how you do it or... >> No, no. We're, no, no. So, I don't want to go into that because I'm not the bizdev guy. But what I'll say is that if you're doing something that winds up being OEM-ish, you can work out the particulars with Vertica. It's not like you're going to just go pay retail and they won't let you distinguish between tests, and prod, and paid, and all that. They'll work with you. Just call 'em up. >> Yeah, and that's why I brought it up because Vertica, they have a community edition, which is not neutered. It runs Eon, it's just there's limits on clusters and storage >> There's limits. >> But it's still fully functional though. >> So to your point, we want it multi-tenant. So it's big just because it's multi-tenant. We have hundred of users on that (audio cuts out). >> And then, what's your partnership with Vertica like? Can we close on that and just describe that a little bit? >> What's it like. I mean, it's pleasant. >> Yeah, I mean (mumbles). >> You know what, so the important thing... Here's what's important. What's important is that I don't have to worry about that layer of our stack. When it comes to being able to get the performance I need, being able to get the economy of scale that I need, being able to get the absolute scale that I need, I've not been disappointed ever with Vertica. And frankly, being able to have acid guarantees and everything else, like a normal mature database that can join lots of tables and still be fast, that's also necessary at scale. And so I feel like it was definitely the right choice to start with. >> Yeah, it's interesting. I remember in the early days of big data a lot of people said, "Who's going to need these acid properties and all this complexity of databases." And of course, acid properties and SQL became the killer features and functions of these databases. >> Who didn't see that one coming, right? >> Yeah, right. And then, so you guys have done a big seed round. You've raised a little over $6 million dollars and you got the product market fit down. You're ready to rock, right? >> Yeah, that's right. So we're doing a launch probably, well, when this airs it'll probably be the day before this airs. Basically, yeah. We've got people... Like literally in the last, I'd say, six to eight weeks, It's just been this sort of pique of interest. All of a sudden, everyone kind of gets what we're doing, realizes they need it, and we've got a solution that seems to meet expectations. So it's like... It's been an amazing... Let me just say this, it's been an amazing start to the year. I mean, at the same time, it's been really difficult for us but more difficult for some other people that haven't been able to go to work over the last couple of weeks and so on. But it's been a good start to the year, at least for our business. So... >> Well, Larry, congratulations on getting the company off the ground and thank you so much for coming on theCUBE and being part of the Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. Keep it right there. We're covering wall-to-wall Virtual Vertica BDC. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everybody and welcome to this week's CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. It is Breaking Analysis, but first I'm coming to you from the floor of Cisco Live in Barcelona, and I want to talk about storage. Storage continues to be soft but there are some bright spots. I've been reporting on this for awhile now and I want to dig in and share with you some of the reasons why, maybe give you some forecasts as to what I think is going to happen in the coming months. And of course, we want to look into some of the ETR spending data, and try to parse through that and understand who's winning, who's losing, who's got the momentum, where are the tailwinds and headwinds. So the first thing I want to show you is let's get right into it. What this slide is showing here is a storage spending snapshot of net score. Now remember, net score in the ETR parlance is an indicator of momentum or spending velocity. Essentially every quarter, what ETR does is they go out to, in this case, 1100 respondents out of the 4500 dataset, and they ask them are you spending more or are you spending less. Essentially they subtract the less from the more and that constitutes net score. It's not that simple but for this purpose, that's what we're showing. Now you can see here on the left hand side, I'm showing all respondents out of 1161. You see the January survey net scores. You've got Rubrik, Cohesity, Nutanix, and Pure, and VMware vSAN are the top five. So Rubrik and Cohesity, very strong, and interesting, Rubrik was very strong last quarter. Cohesity not as strong but really shooting up. It kind of surprised me last quarter, Cohesity being a little low but they were early into the dataset and now they're starting to show what I think is really happening in the marketplace. That's a good indicator. But you can see 75 percent, 72 percent. Nutanix still very strong at 56 percent, driving that hyperconverge piece. You see Pure Storage at 44 percent, down a little bit, talk a little bit more about that in a moment. VMware vSAN, Veeam, et cetera, down the list. The thing about the left hand side and storage in general, you can see the softness. Only about one third of the suppliers are in the green, and that's a problem. If you compare this to security, probably three quarters are in the green. It's a much hotter segment. Now, look on the right hand side. The right hand side is showing what ETR calls GPP, giant, public, and private. You can see there's an N of 403. These are the largest, the very largest public and private companies, private company being a company like Mars Candy. And they say that they are the best indicators of spending momentum in the dataset. So really isolating on some of the large companies. Look what happens here. You can see Rubrik gets even stronger as does Cohesity, they're into the 80 percent range. That's really rarefied air, so very strong. You can see Nutanix drops down. It does better in the smaller companies, it appears. They drop down to 41 percent. Pure gets stronger in the GPP at 68 percent. You can see VMware's vSAN uptick to 45 percent. Nimble gets better, HPE's Nimble, to 54 percent. Dell drops down to 4.8 percent. HPE goes up to 33 percent. HPE was red in the left hand side. You can see Veeam drops, not surprising, Veeam in the biggest companies is not going to be as prevalent. We talked about that in our Breaking Analysis segment after the acquisition of Veeam. You can see NetApp bumps up a little bit but it's still kind of in that red zone. I also want to call your attention to Actifio. They're way down on the bottom in the left hand side, which kind of surprised me. And then I started digging into it because I know Actifio does better in the larger companies. In the right hand side, they pop up to 33 percent. It's only an N of three, but what I'm seeing in the marketplace is Actifio solving some really hard problems in database and copy data management. You're starting to see those results as well. But generally speaking, this picture is not great for storage, with the exception of a few players like Rubrik and Cohesity, Pure, Nutanix. And I'm going to get into that a little bit and try to explain what's going on here. The market's bifurcated. Primary storage has been on the back burner for awhile now, and I've been talking about that. The one exception to that is really been Pure. Little bit for Dell EMC coming back, we'll dig into that a little bit more but Pure has been the stand-out. They're even moderating lately, I'll talk about that some more. Secondary storage is where the market momentum is and you can see that with Rubrik and Cohesity. Again, we'll talk about that some more. Let me dig into the primary side. Cloud, as I've talked about in many Breaking Analysis segments is siphoning off demand from on-prem spend. The second big factor in storage has been there was such an injection of flash into the marketplace, it added headroom. Customers used to buy spindles to get performance, and they don't need to do that so much anymore because so much flash was pushed into the system. The third thing is you're still seeing in primary the consolidation dynamics play out with hyperconverge. So hyperconverge is the software defined bringing together of storage, compute, and networking into a single logical managed unit. That is taking share away from traditional primary storage. You're also seeing tactical NAND pricing be problematic for storage suppliers. You saw that with Pure again this past quarter. NAND pricing comes down, which you'd think would be a good thing from a component standpoint, which it is, but it also lowers prices of the systems. So that hurt Pure's revenue. Their unit volume was pretty good but you're seeing that sort of put pressure on prices, so ASPs are down, average system prices. Let's turn our attention to the secondary market for a moment. Huge injection of venture capital, like a billion dollars, half a billion dollars over the last year, and then another five billion just spent on the acquisition of Veeam. A lot of action going on there. You're seeing big TAM expansions where companies like Rubrik and Cohesity, who have garnered much of that VC spending, are really expanding the notion of data protection from back-up into data management, into analytics, into security, and things of that nature, so a much bigger emphasis on TAM expansion, of course as I talked about the M and A. Let's dig into each of these segments. The chart that I'm showing now really digs into primary storage. You can see here the big players, Pure, Dell EMC, HPE, NetApp, and IBM. And lookit, there's only company in the green, Pure. You can see they're trending down just a little bit from previous quarters but still far and away the company with most spending momentum. Again, here I'm showing net score measure of spending velocity back to the January '18 survey. You can see Dell EMC sort of fell and then is slowly coming back up. NetApp hanging in there, Dell EMC, HP, and NetApp kind of converging, and you can see IBM. IBM announced last quarter about three percent growth. I talked about that actually in September. I predicted that IBM storage would have growth because they synchronized their DS8000 high-end mainframe announcement to the z15, so you saw a little bit of uptick in IBM. Pure, as I said, 15 percent growth. I mean, if you're flat in this market or growing at three percent, you're doing pretty well, you're probably a share gainer. We'll see what happens in February when Dell EMC, HPE, and NetApp announce earnings. We'll update you at that time. So that's what you're seeing now. Same story, Pure outpacing the others, everybody else fighting for share. Let's turn our attention now to secondary storage. What I'm showing here is net score for the secondary storage players. I can't isolate on a drill down for secondary storage, last slide I could do on storage overall, but what I can show is pure plays. What's showing here is Rubrik, Cohesity, Veeam, Commvault, and Veritas. Five pure play, you can argue Veritas isn't a pure play, but I consider it a pure play data protection vendor. Look at Rubrik and Cohesity really shooting up to the right, 75 percent and 72 percent net scores, respectively. You see Veeam hanging in there. This is again, all respondents, the full 1100 dataset. Commvault announced last quarter it beat earnings but it's not growing. You can see some pressure there, and you can see Veritas under some pressure as well. You can see a net score really deep in the red, so that's cause for some concern. We'll keep watching that, maybe dig into some of the larger accounts to see how they're doing there. But you can see clear standouts with Rubrik and Cohesity. I want to look at hyperconverge now. Again, I can't drill into hyperconverge but what I can do is show some of the pure plays. So what this slide shows is the net score for some of the pure play hyperconverge vendors led by Nutanix. The relative newcomer here is vSAN with VMware. You can see Dell EMC, VxRail, and Simplivity. I would say this. A lot of the marketing push that you hear out of Dell and out of VMware says Nutanix is in big trouble, they're dying and so forth. Our data definitely shows something different. The one caution is, you can see Nutanix and larger accounts, not as strong. And you can see both vSAN and Dell EMC stronger in those larger accounts. Maybe that's kind of their bias and their observation space, but it's something that we've got to watch. But you can see the net scores here. Everybody's in the green because overall, this is a strong market. Everybody is winning. It's taking share as I said from primary. We're watching that very closely. Nutanix continues to be strong. Watching very carefully that competitive dynamic and the dynamics within those larger companies which are a bellwether. Now the big question that I want to ask here is can storage reverse the ten-year trend of the big cloud sucking sound that we have heard for the past decade. I've been reporting with data on how cloud generally has hurt that storage spend on-prem. So what I'm showing here in this slide is the net score for the cloud spenders. Many hundreds of cloud spenders in the dataset. What we're showing here is the net score, the spending velocity over the last 10 years for the leaders. You can see Dell EMC, the number one. NetApp, right there in terms of market share, IBM as well. I didn't show HPE because the slide got too busy but they'd be up there as well. So these are the big spenders, big on-prem players and you can see, well, it's up and down. The highs are lower and the lows tend to be lower. You can see on the latest surveys, maybe there's some upticks here in some of the companies. But generally speaking, the trend has been down. That siphoning away of demand from the cloud guys. Can that be reversed, and that's something that we're going to watch, so keeping an eye on that. Let me kind of summarize and I'll make some other comments here. One of the things we're going to watch here is Dell EMC, NetApp, and HPE earnings announcements in February. That's going to be a clear indicator. We'll look for what's happening with overall demand, what the growth trajectory looks like, and very importantly, what NAND pricing looks like. As a corollary to that, we're going to be watching elasticity. I firmly believe as prices go down, that more storage is going to bought. That's always been the case. Flash is still only about 20, 25, 30 percent of the market, about 30 percent of the spending, about 20 percent of the terabytes. But as prices come down, expect people to buy more. That's always been the case. If there's an elasticity of demand, it hasn't shown up in the earning statements, and that's a bit of a concern. But we'll keep an eye on that. We're also going to watch the cloud siphoning demand from on-prem spend. Can the big players and guys like Pure and others, new start-ups maybe, reverse that trend. Multi-cloud, there's an opportunity for these guys. Multi-cloud management, TAM expansion into new areas. Actually delivering services in the cloud. You saw Pure announce block storage in the cloud. So that's kind of interesting that we'll watch. Other players may be getting into the data protection space, but as it relates to the cloud, one of the things I'm watching very closely is the TAM expansion of the cloud players. What do I mean by that. Late last year, Amazon announced a broader set of products or services really in its portfolio. Let's watch for Amazon's moves and other big cloud players into the storage space. I fully expect they're going to want to get a bigger piece of that pie. Remember, much if not most of Amazon's revenue comes from compute. They really haven't awakened to the great storage opportunity that's out there. Why is that important. You saw this play out on-prem. Servers became a really tough market. Intel made all the money. Amazon is a huge customer of Intel, and Intel's getting a big piece of Amazon's EC2 business. That's why you see, in part, Amazon getting into its own chip design. I mean, in the server business, you're talking about low gross margin business. If you're in the 20s or low 30s, you're thrilled. Pure last quarter had 70 plus percent gross margins. It's been a 60 plus percent gross margin business consistently. You're going to see the cloud guys wake up to that and try to grab even more share. It's going to be interesting to see how the traditional on-prem vendors respond to that. Coming into last decade, you saw tons of start-ups but only two companies really reached escape velocity: Nutanix and Pure. At the beginning of the century, you saw Data Domain, Isilon, Compellent, 3PAR all went public. EqualLogic and LeftHand got taken out. There are a bunch of other companies that got acquired. Storage was really a great market. Coming into this decade, mid part of the decade, you had lots of VC opportunity here. You had Fusion and Violin, Intentury went public. They all flamed out. You had a big acquisition with SolidFire, almost a billion dollars, but really Pure and Nutanix were the only ones to make it, so the question is, are you going to see anyone reach escape velocity in the next decade, and where's that going to come from. The likely players today would be Cohesity and Rubrik. Those unicorns would be the opportunity. You could argue Veeam, I guess reached it, but hard to tell because Veeam's a private company. By escape velocity, we're talking large companies who go public, have a big exit in the public market and become transparent so we really know what's going on there. Will it come from a cloud or a cloud native play. We'll see. Are there others that might emerge, like a Nebulon or a Clumio. A company like Infinidat's doing well, will they hit escape velocity and do an IPO and again, become more transparent. That's again something that we're watching, but you're clearly seeing moves up the stack where there's a lot more emphasis in spending on cloud, cloud native. We clearly saw it with hyperconverge consolidation but up the stack towards the apps, really driving digital transformations. People want to spend less on heavy lifting like storage. They're always going to need storage. But is it going to be the same type of market it has been for the last 30 or 40 years, of great investment opportunities. We're starting to see that wane but we'll keep track of it. Thank you for watching this Breaking Analysis, this is CUBE Insights powered by ETR. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time.