>> Announcer: "theCUBE" presents HPE Discover 2022. Brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome back to HPE Discover 2022. You're watching "theCUBE's" coverage. This is Day 2, Dave Vellante with John Furrier. Sheila Rohra is here. She's the Senior Vice President and GM of the Data Infrastructure Business at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and of course, the storage division. And Omer Asad. Welcome back to "theCUBE", Omer. Senior Vice President and General Manager for Cloud Data Services, Hewlett Packard Enterprise storage. Guys, thanks for coming on. Good to see you. >> Thank you. Always a pleasure, man. >> Thank you. >> So Sheila, I'll start with you. Explain the difference. The Data Infrastructure Business and then Omer's Cloud Data Services. You first. >> Okay. So Data Infrastructure Business. So I'm responsible for the primary secondary storage. Basically, what you physically store, the data in a box, I actually own that. So I'm going to have Omer explain his business because he can explain it better than me. (laughing) Go ahead. >> So 100% right. So first, data infrastructure platforms, primary secondary storage. And then what I do from a cloud perspective is wrap up those things into offerings, block storage offerings, data protection offerings, and then put them on top of the GreenLake platform, which is the platform that Antonio and Fidelma talked about on main Keynote stage yesterday. That includes multi-tenancy, customer subscription management, sign on management, and then on top of that we build services. Services are cloud-like services, storage services or block service, data protection service, disaster recovery services. Those services are then launched on top of the platform. Some services like data protection services are software only. Some services are software plus hardware. And the hardware on the platform comes along from the primary storage business and we run the control plane for that block service on the GreenLake platform and that's the cloud service. >> So, I just want to clarify. So what we maybe used to know as 3PAR and Nimble and StoreOnce. Those are the products that you're responsible for? >> That is the primary storage part, right? And just to kind of show that, he and I, we do indeed work together. Right. So if you think about the 3PAR, the primary... Sorry, the Primera, the Alletras, the Nimble, right? All that, right? That's the technology that, you know, my team builds. And what Omer does with his magic is that he turns it into HPE GreenLake for storage, right? And to deliver as a service, right? And basically to create a self-service agility for the customer and also to get a very Cloud operational experience for them. >> So if I'm a customer, just so I get this right, if I'm a customer and I want Hybrid, that's what you're delivering as a Cloud service? >> Yes. >> And I don't care where the data is on-premises, in storage, or on Cloud. >> 100%. >> Is that right? >> So the way that would work is, as a customer, you would come along with the partner, because we're 100% partner-led. You'll come to the GreenLake Console. On the GreenLake Console, you will pick one of our services. Could be a data protection service, could be the block storage service. All services are hybrid in nature. Public Cloud is 100% participant in the ecosystem. You'll choose a service. Once you choose a service, you like the rate card for that service. That rate card is just like a hyperscaler rate card. IOPS, Commitment, MINCOMMIT's, whatever. Once you procure that at the price that you like with a partner, you buy the subscription. Then you go to console.greenLake.com, activate your subscription. Once the subscription is activated, if it's a service like block storage, which we talked about yesterday, service will be activated, and our supply chain will send you our platform gear, and that will get activated in your site. Two things, network cable, power cable, dial into the cloud, service gets activated, and you have a cloud control plane. The key difference to remember is that it is cloud-consumption model and cloud-operation model built in together. It is not your traditional as a service, which is just like hardware leasing. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> That's a thing of the past. >> But this answers a question that I had, is how do you transfer or transform from a company that is, you know, selling boxes, of course, most of you are engineers are software engineers, I get that, to one that is selling services. And it sounds like the answer is you've organized, I know it's inside baseball here, but you organize so that you still have, you can build best of breed products and then you can package them into services. >> Omer: 100%. 100%. >> It's separate but complementary organization. >> So the simplest way to look at it would be, we have a platform side at the house that builds the persistence layers, the innovation, the file systems, the speeds and feeds, and then building on top of that, really, really resilient storage services. Then how the customer consumes those storage services, we've got tremendous feedback from our customers, is that the cloud-operational model has won. It's just a very, very simple way to operate it, right? So from a customer's perspective, we have completely abstracted away out hardware, which is in the back. It could be at their own data center, it could be at an MSP, or they could be using a public cloud region. But from an operational perspective, the customer gets a single pane of glass through our service console, whether they're operating stuff on-prem, or they're operating stuff in the public cloud. >> So they get storage no matter what? They want it in the cloud, they got it that way, and if they want it as a service, it just gets shipped. >> 100%. >> They plug it in and it auto configures. >> Omer: It's ready to go. >> That's right. And the key thing is simplicity. We want to take the headache away from our customers, we want our customers to focus on their business outcomes, and their projects, and we're simplifying it through analytics and through this unified cloud platform, right? On like how their data is managed, how they're stored, how they're secured, that's all taken care of in this operational model. >> Okay, so I have a question. So just now the edge, like take me through this. Say I'm a customer, okay I got the data saved on-premise action, cloud, love that. Great, sir. That's a value proposition. Come to HPE because we provide this easily. Yeah. But now at the edge, I want to deploy it out to some edge node. Could be a tower with Telecom, 5G or whatever, I want to box this out there, I want storage. What happens there? Just ship it out there and connects up? Does it work the same way? >> 100%. So from our infrastructure team, you'll consume one or two platforms. You'll consume either the Hyperconverged form factor, SimpliVity, or you might convert, the Converged form factor, which is proliant servers powered by Alletras. Alletra 6Ks. Either of those... But it's very different the way you would procure it. What you would procure from us is an edge service. That edge service will come configured with certain amount of compute, certain amount of storage, and a certain amount of data protection. Once you buy that on a dollars per gig per month basis, whichever rate card you prefer, storage rate card or a VMware rate card, that's all you buy. From that point on, the platform team automatically configures the back-end hardware from that attribute-based ordering and that is shipped out to your edge. Dial in the network cable, dial in the power cable, GreenLake cloud discovers it, and then you start running the- >> Self-service, configure it, it just shows up, plug it in, done. >> Omer: Self-service but partner-led. >> Yeah. >> Because we have preferred pricing for our partners. Our partners would come in, they will configure the subscriptions, and then we activate those customers, and then send out the hardware. So it's like a hyperscaler on-prem at-scale kind of a model. >> Yeah, I like it a lot. >> So you guys are in the data business. You run the data portion of Hewlett Packard Enterprise. I used to call it storage, even if we still call it storage but really, it's evolving into data. So what's your vision for the data business and your customer's data vision, if you will? How are you supporting that? >> Well, I want to kick it off, and then I'm going to have my friend, Omer, chime in. But the key thing is that what the first step is is that we have to create a unified platform, and in this case we're creating a unified cloud platform, right? Where there's a single pane of glass to manage all that data, right? And also leveraging lots of analytics and telemetry data that actually comes from our infosite, right? We use all that, we make it easy for the customer, and all they have to say, and they're basically given the answers to the test. "Hey, you know, you may want to increase your capacity. You may want to tweak your performance here." And all the customers are like, "Yes. No. Yes, no." Basically it, right? Accept and not accept, right? That's actually the easiest way. And again, as I said earlier, this frees up the bandwidth for the IT teams so then they actually focus more on the business side of the house, rather than figuring out how to actually manage every single step of the way of the data. >> Got it. >> So it's exactly what Sheila described, right? The way this strategy manifests itself across an operational roadmap for us is the ability to change from a storage vendor to a data services vendor, right? >> Sheila: Right. >> And then once we start monetizing these data services to our customers through the GreenLake platform, which gives us cloud consumption model and a cloud operational model, and then certain data services come with the platform layer, certain data services are software only. But all the services, all the data services that we provide are hybrid in nature, where we say, when you provision storage, you could provision it on-prem, or you can provision it in a hyperscaler environment. The challenge that most of our customers have come back and told us, is like, data center control planes are getting fragmented. On-premises, I mean there's no secrecy about it, right? VMware is the predominant hypervisor, and as a result of that, vCenter is the predominant configuration layer. Then there is the public cloud side, which is through either Ajour, or GCP, or AWS, being one of the largest ones out there. But when the customer is dealing with data assets, the persistence layer could be anywhere, it could be in AWS region, it could be your own data center, or it could be your MSP. But what this does is it creates an immense amount of fragmentation in the context in which the customers understand the data. Essentially, John, the customers are just trying to answer three questions: What is it that I store? How much of it do I store? Should I even be storing it in the first place? And surprisingly, those three questions just haven't been answered. And we've gotten more and more fragmented. So what we are trying to produce for our customers, is a context to ware data view, which allows the customer to understand structured and unstructured data, and the lineage of how it is stored in the organization. And essentially, the vision is around simplification and context to ware data management. One of the key things that makes that possible, is again, the age old infosite capability that we have continued to hone and develop over time, which is now up to the stage of like 12 trillion data points that are coming into the system that are not corroborated to give that back. >> And of course cost-optimizing it as well. We're up against the clock, but take us through the announcements, what's new from when we sort of last talked? I guess it was in September. >> Omer: Right. >> Right. What's new that's being announced here and, or, you know, GA? >> Right. So three major announcements that came out, because to keep on establishing the context when we were with you last time. So last time we announced GreenLake backup and recovery service. >> John: Right. >> That was VMware backup and recovery as a complete cloud, sort of SaaS control plane. No backup target management, no BDS server management, no catalog management, it's completely a SaaS service. Provide your vCenter address, boom, off you go. We do the backups, agentless, 100% dedup enabled. We have extended that into the public cloud domain. So now, we can back up AWS, EC2, and EBS instances within the same constructs. So a single catalog, single backup policy, single protection framework that protects you both in the cloud and on-prem, no fragmentation, no multiple solutions to deploy. And the second one is we've extended our Hyperconverged service to now be what we call the Hybrid Cloud On-Demand. So basically, you go to GreenLake Console control plane, and from there, you basically just start configuring virtual machines. It supports VMware and AWS at the same time. So you can provision a virtual machine on-prem, or you can provision a virtual machine in the public cloud. >> Got it. >> And, it's the same framework, the same catalog, the same inventory management system across the board. And then, lastly, we extended our block storage service to also become hybrid in nature. >> Got it. >> So you can manage on-prem and AWS, EBS assets as well. >> And Sheila, do you still make product announcements, or does Antonio not allow that? (Omer laughing) >> Well, we make product announcements, and you're going to see our product announcements actually done through the HPE GreenLake for block storage. >> Dave: Oh, okay. >> So our announcements will be coming through that, because we do want to make it as a service. Again, we want to take all of that headache of "What configuration should I buy? How do I actually deploy it? How do I...?" We really want to take that headache away. So you're going to see more feature announcements that's going to come through this. >> So feature acceleration through GreenLake will be exposed? >> Absolutely. >> This is some cool stuff going on behind the scenes. >> Oh, there's a lot good stuff. >> Hardware still matters, you know. >> Hardware still matters. >> Does it still matter? Does hardware matter? >> Hardware still matters, but what matters more is the experience, and that's actually what we want to bring to the customer. (laughing) >> John: That's good. >> Good answer. >> Omer: 100%. (laughing) >> Guys, thanks so much- >> John: Hardware matters. >> For coming on "theCUBE". Good to see you again. >> John: We got it. >> Thanks. >> And hope the experience was good for you Sheila. >> I know, I know. Thank you. >> Omer: Pleasure as always. >> All right, keep it right there. Dave Vellante and John Furrier will be back from HPE Discover 2022. You're watching "theCUBE". (soft music)

>> Announcer: Live from Berlin, Germany, it's theCUBE, covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApp. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of NetApp Insight 2017, here in Berlin, Germany. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Peter Burris. We are joined by Shelia Fitzpatrick, she is the Chief Privacy Officer of NetApp, and Paul Stringfellow who is a Technical Director at Gardner Systems. Shelia, Paul, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for inviting us. >> So, I want to talk about data privacy. The general data protection regulation, the EU's forthcoming laws, GDPR, are going to take effect in May of next year. They represent a huge fundamental change about the way that companies use data. Can you just set the scene for our viewers and explain what these changes mean? >> Sure, happy to. As you said, GDPR is the newest regulation, it will replace the current EU directive, goes into effect May 25th of 2018. It has some fundamental changes that are massively different than any other data privacy laws you've ever seen. First and foremost, it is a legal, compliance and business issue as opposed to a technology issue. It's also the first extra-territorial regulation, meaning, it will apply to any organization anywhere in the world, regardless of whether or not they have a presence in Europe. But if they provide goods and services to an EU resident, or they have a website that EU residents would go to to enter data, they are going to have to comply with GDPR, and that is a massive change for companies. Not to mention the sanctions, the sanctions can be equal to 20 million Euro or 4% of a company's annual global turnover, pretty phenomenal sanctions. There are a lot of fundamental changes, but those are probably the biggest right there. >> What are some of the biggest challenges that companies are... I mean, you talked about the threat of sanctions and just the massive implications of what companies need to do to prepare? >> To really prepare, as I'm talking to customers, they really need, unfortunately a lot of companies are just thinking about security. And they're thinking, well as long as we have encryption, as long as we have tokenization, as long as we're locking down that data, we're going to be okay. I'm saying, no. It first and foremost starts with building that legal compliance program. What does your data privacy program look like? What personal data are you collecting? Why are you collecting it? Do you have the legal right to collect it? Part of GDPR requires unambiguous, explicit, freely-given consent. Companies can no longer force or imply consent. A lot of times when you go on to websites the terms and conditions are so impossible to understand that people just tick the box (laughs). Well, under GDPR, that will no longer be valid because it has to be very transparent, very easily understandable, very readable. And people have to know what organizations are doing with their data. And it puts ownership and more control of data back into the hands of the data subject, as opposed to the organizations that are collecting data. SO those are some of the fundamental changes. For the Cloud environment, for instance, for a lot of big hyperscalers, GDPR now puts obligations on data processors which is very different from the current regulation. SO that's going to be a fundamental change of business for a lot of organizations. >> Now, is it just customers or is it customers and employees as well? >> It's customers, employees, suppliers, it's any personal data that an organization collects, regardless of the relationship. >> SO what does it mean? Does it mean that I'm renting your data? Does it mean that I, 'cause you now own it, it's not me owning it. >> I own it, that's right. >> What are some of the implications of how folks are going to monetize some of these resources? >> SO what it actually means is, as an organization that's collecting data, you have to have a legal and valid business reason for needing that data. SO part of GDPR requires what's called, data minimization. You should only be collecting the minimal amount of data you need in order to provide the service you're going to provide, or manage the relationship you're going to manage. And you are never, as an organization, the owner of that data, you're the data steward. I am giving you permission to use my data for a very specific reason. You can't take liberties with that data. You can't do, what I call, scope-creep which is, once you have the data, "Oh, I can do whatever I want "with that data," no you can't. Unless I have consented to it, you cannot use that data. And so, that is going to be a major change for organizations to deal with and it doesn't matter if it's your employee data, your customer data, your partner data, your alternative worker data, your supplier data. Whose ever data you have, you better be transparent about that data. >> Shelia, you haven't once mentioned technology. Paul, what does this mean from a technology perspective? >> I suppose it's my job to mention technology? >> As Shelia will tell you, the GDPR, it should not be driven by IT. Because it's not an IT problem, it's absolutely a legal and compliance issue. However, I think there's a technology problem in there. So for lots of things that Shelia is talking about, in terms of understanding your data, in terms of being able to find data, being able to remove data when you no longer need to use it, that's absolutely a technology problem. And I think, actually, maybe something you won't hear said very often, I'm a real fan of GDPR, I think a it's long overdue it's probably because Shelia's been beating me round the head for the last 12 months >> I have. >> about it. But, I think it's one of those things that's long overdue to all of us within enterprises, within business, who hold and look after data. Because what we've done, traditionally, is that we just collected tons and tons of data and we bought storage 'cause storage could be relatively cheap, we're moving things to the Cloud. And, we've got absolutely no control, no management, no understanding of what the data is, where it is, who has access to it? Does anybody even access it, I'm paying for it, does anybody even use it? And I think what this is, for me, if GDPR wasn't a regulatory thing that we had to do, I think it's a set of really good practices that, as organizations, we should be looking to follow anyway. And technology plays a small part in that, it will enable organizations to understand the data better, it will enable those organizations to be able to find information as and when they need it. When somebody makes a subject access request, how are you going to find that data without appropriate technology? And I think, first and foremost, it's something that is forcing organizations to look at the way they culturally look after data within their business. This is no longer about, "Let me just keep things forever and I won't worry about it." This is a cultural shift that says data is actually an asset in your business. And as Shelia actually mentioned before, and something I'll pinch in future, the data is not mine, I'm just the custodian of that data while you allow me to be so. So I should treat that like anything else I'm looking after on your behalf. SO I think it's those kind of fundamental shifts that will drive technology adoption, no doubt, to allow you to do that, but actually, it's much more of a cultural shift in the way that we think of data and the way that we manage data in our businesses. >> Well you're talking about it as this regulation that is long overdue, and it will cause this cultural shift. So what will be different in the way that companies do business and the way that they treat their customer data, and their customer's privacy? And their employee's privacy, too, as you pointed out? >> Well, and part of the difference is going to be that need for transparency. So companies are going to have to be very upfront about what they're doing with the data, as Paul said. You know, why are they collecting that data, and they need to think differently about the need for data. Instead of collecting massive amounts of data that you really don't need, they need to take a step back and say, "This is the type of relationship "I'm trying to manage." Whether it's an employment relationship, whether it's a customer relationship, whether it's a partner relationship. What is the minimum amount of information I need in order to manage that relationship? So if I have an employee, for instance, I don't need to know what my employee does on their day off. Maybe that's a nice thing to know because I think well, maybe we can offer them a membership to a gym because they like to work out? That's not a must-have, that's a nice-to-have. And GDPR is going to force must-haves. In order to manage the employment relationship I have to be able to pay you, I have to be able to give you a job, I have to be able to provide benefits, I have to be able to provide performance evaluations and other requirements, but if it's not legally required, I don't need that data. And so it's going to change the way companies think about developing programs, policies, even technology. As they start to think about how they're developing new technology, what data do they need to make this technology work? And technology has actually driven the need for more privacy laws. If you think about IoT, artificial intelligence, Cloud. >> Mobile. >> Absolutely. Great technology, but from a privacy perspective, the privacy was never a part of the planning process. >> In fact, in many respects it was the exact opposite. There were a whole bunch of business models, I mean if you think about it in the technology industry, there's two fundamental business models. There's the ad-based business model, which is, "Give us all your data "and we'll figure out a way to monetize it." >> Absolutely. >> And there's a transaction-based business model which says, "We'll provide you a service "and you pay us, and we promise to do something "and only something with your data." >> Absolutely. >> It's the difference between the way Google and Facebook work, and say, Apple and Microsoft work. SO how is this going to impact these business models in ways of thinking about engaging customers at least where GDPR is the governing model? >> Well, it is going to force a fundamental change in their business model. SO the companies that you mentioned, that their entire business model is based on the collection and aggregation of data, and in some cases, the selling of personal data. >> Some might say screwing you. >> Some might definitely say that, especially if you're a privacy attorney, you might say that. They offer fabulous services and people willingly give up their privacy, that's part of the problem, is that they're ticking the box to say, "I want to use Facebook, I want to use Twitter, "I want to use LinkedIn "because these are great technologies." But, it's the scope-creep. It's what you're doing behind the scenes that I don't know how you're using my data. SO transparency is going to become more and more critical in the business model and that's going to be a cultural, as Paul said, a cultural shift for companies that their entire business model's based on personal data. They're struggling because they're the companies that, no matter what they do, they're going to have to change. They can't just make a simple, change their policy or procedure, they have to change their entire business model to meet the GDPR obligations. >> And I think from, like Shelia says there, and obviously GDPR's very much around, kind of, private data. Well, the conversation we're having with our customers is, is a much wider scope than that, it is all of the data that you own. And it's important, I think, organizations need to stop being fast and loose with the information that they hold because not only is the private information about those people there that, you know, me and you, and that we don't want that necessarily leaked across the well to somebody who might look to exploit that for some other reason. But, that might be, business confidential information, that might be price list, it might be your customer list. And, at the moment, I think in lots of organizations we have a culture where people from top to bottom in an organization don't necessarily understand that. SO they might be doing something where, we had a case in UK recently where some records, security arrangements for Heathrow Airport were found on a bus. So somebody copied them to a USB stick, no encryption, somebody copied it to a USB stick, thought it was okay to take home and leave in the back of, probably didn't think it was okay to leave in the back of the taxi, but certainly thought it was okay to take that information home. And you look at that and think, well, what other business asset that that organization held would they have treated with such disdain, almost to say "I just don't care, this is just ones and zeroes, "why would I care about it?" It's that shift that I think we're starting to see. And I think it's that shift that organizations should have taken a long time ago. We talk to customers, and you hear of events like this all the time, data is the new gold, data is the new precious material of your choice. >> Which it really isn't. It really isn't, here's why I say that because this is the important thing and leads to the next question I was going to ask you. Every asset that's ever been conceived follows the basic laws in economic scarcity. Take gold, you can apply to that purpose, you can make connectors for a chip, or you can use it as a basis for making jewelry or some other purpose. But, data is fungible in so many ways. You can connect it and in many respects, we talked about it a little bit earlier, the act of making it private is, in many respects, the act of turning it into an asset. SO one of the things I want to ask you about, if you think about it, is that, there will still be a lot of net new ways to capture data that's associated with a product or service in a relationship. SO we're not saying that GDPR is going to restrict the role that data plays, it's just going to make it more specific. We're still going to see more IoT, we're still going to see more mobile services, as long as the data that's being collected is in service to the relationship or the product that's being offered. >> Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, one of the things that I always say is that, GDPR's intent is not stop organizations from collecting data, data is your greatest asset, you need data to manage any kind of relationship. But, you're absolutely right in what it's going to do is force transparency, so instead of doing things behind the scenes where nobody has any idea what you're doing with my data, companies are going to have to be extremely transparent about it and think about how it's being used. You talked about data monetization, healthcare data today is ten times more valuable than financial data. It is the data that all hackers want. And the reason is, is because you take even aggregate and statistical information through, say trial clinics, information that you think there's no way to tie it back to a person, and by adding just little elements to it, you have now turned that data into greater value and you can now connect it back to a person. SO data that you think does not have value, the more we add to it and the more, sort of, profiling we do, the more valuable that data is going to become. >> But it's even more than that, right? Because not only are you connecting it back to a person, you're connecting it back to a human being. Whereas financial data is highly stylized, it's defined, it's like this transaction defining, and there's nothing necessarily real about it other than that's the convention that we used to for example, do accounting. But, healthcare data is real. It ties back to, what am I doing, what drugs am I taking, why am I taking them, when am I visiting somebody? This is real, real data that provides deep visibility into the human being, who they are, what they face, and any number of other issues. >> Well, if you think about GDPR, too, they expanded the definition of personal data under GDPR. SO it now includes data, like biometric and genetic information that is heavily used in the healthcare industry. It also includes location data, IP information, unique identifiers. SO a lot of companies say, "Well, we don't collect personal data "but we have the unique identifiers." Well, if you can go through any kind of process to tie that back to a person, that's now personal data. SO GDPR has actually the first entry into the digital age as opposed to the old fashioned processing. Where you can now take different aspects of data and combine it to identify a human being, as you say. >> So, I got one more question. This is something of a paradox, sorry for jumping in, but I'm fascinated by this subject. Something of a paradox. Because the act of making data private, at least to the corporation, is an act of creating an asset, and because the rules of GDPR are so much more specific and well thought through than most rules regarding data, does it mean that companies that follow GDPR are likely, in the long run, to be better at understanding, taking advantage of, and utilizing their data assets? That's the paradox. Most people say, "I need all the data." Well, GDPR says, "Maybe you need to be more specific "about how you handle your data assets." What do you think, is this going to create advantages for certain kinds of companies? >> I think it absolutely is going to create advantages in two ways. One, I see organizations that comply with GDPR as having a competitive advantage. Because, number one it goes down to trust. If I'm going to do business with Company A or Company B, I'm going to do business with the company that actually takes my personal data seriously. But, looking' at it from your point of view, absolutely. As companies become more savvy when it comes to data privacy compliance, not just GDPR, but data privacy laws around the world, they're also going to see more of that value in the data, be more transparent about it. But, that's also going to allow them to use the data for other purposes, because they're going to get very creative in how having your data is actually going to benefit you as an individual. SO they're going to have better ways of saying, "But, by having your data I can offer you these services." >> GDPR may be a catalyst for increased data maturity. >> Absolutely. >> Well, I wanna ask you about the cultural shift. We've been talking so much about it from the corporate standpoint, but will it actually force a cultural shift from the customer standpoint, too? I mean, this idea of forcing transparency and having the customer understand why do you need this from me, what do you want? I mean, famously, Europeans are more private than Americans. >> Oh much so. As you've said, "Just click accept, okay, fine, "tell me what I need to know, "or how can I use this website?" >> Well, the thing is that, it's not necessarily from a consumer point of view, but I do think it's from a personal point of view from everybody. SO whether you work inside an organization that keeps data, that's starting to understand just how valuable that data might be. And just to pick up on something, that just to pop at something you were saying before, I think one of the other areas where this has business benefit is that that better and increased management and maturity, actually I think is actually a great way, that better maturity around how we look after our data, has huge impact. Because, it has huge impact in the cost of storing' it, if we want to use Cloud services why am I putting things there that nobody looks at? And then, looking at maintaining this kind of cultural shift that says, "If I'm going to have data in my organization, "I'm no longer going to have it on a USB stick "and leave it in the back of a cab "when it's got security information "of a global major airport on it. "I'm going to think about that "because I'm now starting to understand." And this big drive about, people starting to understand how the information that people keep about you has a potential bigger impact, and it has a potential bigger impact if that data, yeah, we've seen data breach, after data breach after data breach. You can't look at the news any day of the week without some other data breach and that's partly because, a bit like health and safety legislation, GDPR's there because you can't trust all those organizations to be mature enough with the way that we look after our data to do these things. SO legislation and regulations come across and said, "Well, actually this stuff's really important "to me and you as individuals, "so stop being fast and loose with it, "stop leaving it in the back of taxis, "stop letting it leak out your organization "because nobody cares." And that's driving a two-way thing, here, it's partly we're having to think more about that because actually, we're not trusting organizations who are looking after our data. But, as Shelia said, if you become an organization that has a reputation for being good with the way they lock their data, and look after data, that will give you a competitive edge alongside, actually I'm being much more mature, I'm being much more controlled and efficient with how I look after my data. That's got big impact in how I deliver technology and certainly, within a company. Which is why I'm enthusiastic about GDPR, I think it's forcing lots and lots of long-overdue shift in the way that we, as people, look after data, architect technology, start to think about the kind of solutions and the kind of things that we do in the way that we deliver IT into business and enterprise across the globe. >> I think one of the things, too, and Paul brought it up, is he mentioned security several times. And, as Paul knows, one of my pet peeves is when companies say, "We have world-class security, "therefore we're compliant with GDPR." And I go, "Really, so you're basically locking down data "you're not legally allowed to have? That's "what you're telling me." >> Like you said earlier, it's not just about having encryption everywhere. >> Exactly, and it's funny how many companies say "Well, we're compliant with GDPR "because we encrypt the data." And I go, "Well, if you're not legally allowed "to have that data, that's not going to help you at all." And, unfortunately, I think that's what a lot of companies think, that as long as we're looking at the security side of the house, we're good. And they're missing the whole boat on GDPR. >> It's got to be secure. >> It's got to be secure. >> But-- >> You got to legally have it first. >> Exactly. The chicken and the egg. >> But, what's always an issue with security, around data and the stuff that Shelia talked about is quite a lot, is that one of the risks you have, is you can have all the great security in the world but, if the right person with the right access to the right data has all the things that they should have, that doesn't mean that they can't steal that data, lose that data, do something with that data that they shouldn't be doing, just because we've got it secured. SO we need to have policies and procedures in place that allow us to manage that better, a culture that understands the risk of doing those kinds of things, and maybe, alongside technologies that identify, unusual use of data are important within that. >> Well, Paul, Shelia, thank you so much for coming on the show, it's been a fascinating conversation. >> Thank you very much, appreciate it. >> Yeah, thanks for having us on, appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Peter Burris, we will have more from NetApp Insight here in Berlin in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering NetApp Insight 2017, brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to our live coverage. It's The Cube here in Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier, the co-host and co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, with Keith Townsend my co-host, CTO Advisor. Our next two guests is Sheila Fitzpatrick, the Chief Privacy Officer for NetApp, and Michael Archuleta, CIO HIPPA and Information Security Officer at San Rafael Hospital. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Great topic, privacy, healthcare, ransomware, all these hacks going on, although it's not a security conversation, it really is about how data is changing, certainly with the HIPAA, which has got a history around protecting data, but is that good? So, all kinds of hornets' nest of issues are going on. Michael, all for the good, right? I mean, everything's for the good but, at what point are things foreclosed, the role of the tech? What's your update on healthcare and the role of data, and kind of the state of the union? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, data right now, is one of those assets that's really critical in a healthcare organization. When you look at value-based care, on improvements, utilization of real-time data, it's really critical that we have the data in place. But the thing though is, data is also very valuable to hackers, so it is really a major problem that we're basically having in healthcare organizations, because right now, healthcare organizations are one of the most attacked sectors out there. I was basically stating that there's an actual poll out there that stated that 43% of individuals don't even know what ransomware is. And you figure, in healthcare organizations, we're really behind the curve when it comes to technology. So when you bring that into, and you say okay guys, what's ransomware, what's cyber security? What's a breach? Everyone's like, well I-- >> Malware, resilient things. >> I don't know what it is. So it becomes an issue, and the thing though is the culture has not been fully developed in organizations like healthcare, because we're so behind in the curves. But what we've been focusing a lot on, is employee cyber security awareness, kind of bringing in that culture, having individuals understand, because as you were stating too, I mean, healthcare information is 10-times, 20-times more valuable than a Social Security and a credit card, on the dark net right now. If you figure, PHI contains a massive amount of data, so it is very profitable, and these individuals go in, hack these systems, because of course, healthcare organizations are so easy to hack, they place it out on the dark net, you go out, you buy some Bitcoins, you can go and have some good identity theft going on. And I mean, we have a massive issue here in the States, with substance abuse, so if you want basically a script, or you want multiple scripts with different identities, go out there and purchase those specific things. So, it is a problem, and then on my standpoint is, imagine if this was your mother's, your father's, your grandma's, any family member's information. That's why data is so valuable, and it's so critical that we take care of the information as securely as possible, but it starts with the people, because I always say at the end of the day, our employees hold the keys to either letting the individuals stay out, or inviting them in. So it is a problem, absolutely. >> Sheila, I want to get your thoughts, 'cause obviously this segment here is why data privacy is always one of the top-five concerns for CXOs. And obviously, the tagline NetApp has for the show is "Change the World With Data". There's a lot of societal impacts going on. We're seeing it every day, in front of our eyes, certainly here in Vegas and then throughout the world, with hacks, Equifax just still in memory there. And there's going to be another Equifax down the road. The hackers are out there, lots of security concern. You've got developers that are getting on the front lines, getting closer to business, that's a trend in the tech business. Data privacy has always been important, but this means that there's a confluence of two things happening right now, that's really that collision course: technology and policy. Privacies and policy things that people spend a lot of time trying to get right, and for all the right reasons, but I'll make some assumptions here, and could foreclose and all penaltize them, put a penalty for the future. How should CEOs, COOs, CDOs, Chief Data Officers, chief everybody, they're all CXOs, think about privacy? >> Well I think it starts with the fundamental, and you're absolutely right, there's a real misperception out there, around privacy. And I always tell people, people that know me know that my pet peeve is when people say to me we have world-class security, therefore we're good on privacy. I literally want to slap them, because they're not the same thing. If you think about-- >> She's closer to John. >> Yeah, you better move that way. If you think about the analogy of the wheel, data privacy is that full life-cycle of the wheel. It's that data that you're collecting, from the time you collect it to the time you destroy it. It's the legal and regulatory requirements that say what you can have, what you can do with that data, obtaining the consent of the individual to have that data. Certainly, protecting that data is very important, that's one spoke on that wheel, but if you're only looking at encryption, that wheel's not going to turn, 'cause you're literally encrypting data you're not legally allowed to have. So if you think about the healthcare industry, where I absolutely agree, the data that you deal with is one of the most valuable data and sensitive data individuals can have, but often times, even healthcare organizations don't even know what they're collecting, or they're collecting data that maybe they don't necessarily need, or they only think about protecting that protected health information, but they don't think about the other personal data they collect. They collect information on your name, your phone number, your home address, dependent information, emergency contact. That's not protected health information. That's personal data that's covered under privacy laws. >> Here's the dilemma I want to ask you guys to react to, because this is kind of the reality as we see it on The Cube. We go to hundreds of events a year, talk to a lot of thought leaders and experts. You guys are on the field every day. Here's the dilemma: I need to innovate my business, I got to do a digital transformation. Data is the new competitive advantage. I got a surface data, not in batch basis, real-time, so I can provide the kinds of services in real-time, using data, at the same time that's an innovative, organic growing, fast-paced technological advancement. At the same time, I'm really nervous, because the impact of ransomware and some of these backlash events, cause me to go pause. So the balancing out between governance and policy, which could make you go slower, versus the let's go, move fast, break stuff, you know, let's go build some new apps. I want to go faster, I want to innovate for my business and for my customers, but I don't want to screw myself at the same time. How do you think about that? How do you react to that? And how do you talk to customers about that when they try to figure it out? >> So that's something, that's an area that I spend a lot of time talking out, 'cause I'm very fortunate that I get to travel the globe and I'm meeting with our customers all over the world. And those same issues, they want to adapt to new technology. They want to invest in the cloud, they want to invest in AI, in internet-of-things, but at the same time, I keep going back to, it's like building a house, you have to start with the ground floor. You have to build your privacy compliance program, and understand what data do you need in order to drive your business? What data do you need to sort your customers, your patients, your employees? Once you've determined that fundamental need and what your legal requirements are, that's when you start looking at technology. What's the right technology to invest in? You don't start that journey by deciding on technology and then fit the data in. You have to start with what the data is, and what you want to do with that data, what service you're trying to provide, and what the basics are, and then you build up. >> So foundationally, data is the initial building block. >> Absolutely. You don't build a house by starting with the second floor. If you start looking at tools and technology to begin with, that house is going to collapse. So you start with the data and then you build up. >> Michael, you're on the front lines, and the realities are realities. Your thoughts? >> Absolutely. So you know, you have some excellent points. The thing is, at the end of the day, I always say security at times is inconvenience. I mean, we add two-factor authentication, we add all these additional fundamentals in what we basically do, but the bottom line is we're trying to secure this data. There has to be security governance, to really focus on okay, this is the information you need. We need to kind of go through legal, we need to go through compliance, and we need to kind of determine that this is going to be ease-of-access for your group, and we need to make sure that we are keeping you secure as well too. The bottom line is innovation, of course, it won't do so much disruption, et cetera. It's absolutely amazing. You know, I love innovation, honestly, but we still have to have some governance, and focus on that in keeping it secure, keeping it focused, and having the right individuals really-- >> How do you tackle that as a team, with your team? It's cultural organizational behavior, or project management, product planning. How do you deal with the balance? >> Well at the end of the day, the CEO of NetApp basically states it starts from the top down. You really have to have a data-driven CEO that basically understands at least the fundamentals of cyber security, information technology, innovation, have those all combined and together and having that main focus of governance, so everyone has that full fundamentals of understandment, if that makes sense. >> Let's talk tech. You know, we've talked at the high level. I love it that you brought in the global conversation into this, you're taking a global view. We talked a little bit before the show, there's a mismatch in taxonomy. Here in the U.S., we're focused first on security, maybe, and then secondarily on this concept of PII, which really doesn't exist outside of the U.S. Now we have GDPR. Talk to us about the gap in understanding of GDPR, and what we consider as PII, here in the U.S., and where U.S. companies need to get to. >> Okay, that's a great question. So, the minute an individual talks about PII, you automatically go, U.S.-centric, understanding that you must operate in a purely domestic environment. The global term for personal data is personal data, it's not PII. There is a fundamental difference: in the U.S. there is a respect for confidentiality, but there's no real respect for privacy. When you talk about GDPR, that is the biggest overhaul in data protection laws in 25 years. It is going to have ramifications and ripple-effect across the globe. It is the first extra-territorial data privacy law, and under GDPR, personal data is defined as any piece of information that is identifiable to an individual, or can identify an individual either directly or indirectly. But more importantly, it has expanded that definition to include location data, IP address, biometric information, genetic information, location data. So if you have that data and you say well I can't really tie that back to a person, if you can go through any kind of technology process to be able to tie it back to a person, it is now covered under GDPR. So one of the concepts under GDPR is privacy by design. So it's saying that you have to think about privacy very similar to where we've always sat about security up front, when you're investing in new technology, when you're investing in a new program, you need to think about, going back to what I said earlier, what data do you need? What problem are you trying to solve? What do you absolutely have to have to make this technology work? And then, what is the impact going to be on personal data? So I absolutely agree, security is incredibly important, because you need to build a fortress around that data. If you haven't dealt with the privacy component of GDPR, and other data protection laws, security would be like me going down and robbing a bank, coming home and putting that money in the vault in my house, locking it up, and going that money's secure, no one can get to it. When the police come knocking on my door, they're not going to care that I have that locked in a vault. That's not my money. And you have to think about personal data the same way, and certainly healthcare information the same way. You need the consent of the individual, and you need to articulate what you're going to do with that data, be transparent. So the laws are not trying to inhibit or prohibit technology, they're just trying to get you to think about-- >> So Michael, as we think about this, how it impacts GDPR specifically, the healthcare industry talked to dinner about this a little bit. We're talking about medical records, doctors, medical professionals like to keep as much data as possible. Researchers want to get to as much data as possible. What are some of the ramifications or considerations at least, for the medical industry? >> Yeah, absolutely. So you know, on your standpoint there, as you stated, at the end of the day when we basically look and we focus on our security governance, we go over the same fundamentals as you are going. What information is basically needed to access that information for the patient? What is needed from the physician's standpoint? What is needed from the nurse's standpoint? Because the thing is, we don't just open it up to everyone, like on a coming in by different specific job functionalities, you know. We kind of prioritize and put different levels of this is the level of data this individual basically needs, versus this individual. And the thing is, the beauty about what we basically have focused on a lot too, is we developed the overall security governance committee that kind of focuses on the specific datas from HIPAA, high-tech, and the different laws that we're focused on in healthcare. And you know, we really have started focusing a lot on two-factor authentication with accessing information, so we're really utilizing some of those VASCO tokens, RSA tokens, with algorithm changes, et cetera. But at the end of the day, the thing is, the main focus is what information do you need? And the bottom line too is, it has to have that specific culture of understanding that cyber security and data is very important. And the thing is, on a physician's standpoint, they want access to everything, literally everything, and that's understandable, because these individuals are saving lives, but the thing is though, there has to be governance in place, and they have to have that understanding that this can be an issue moving forward. These are the potential problems of a breach that could basically happen, this is the information that you need. If there's more information that is needed, it will go through the security compliance governance committee. >> It's a hard job. They want the nirvana, they want the holy grail, they want everything right there. Thanks for coming on, appreciate making aware of the data, privacy issues. Sheila, thanks so much for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Michael, I'll give you guys the final word on how management teams and executives should align around this important objective? Because there's some inconvenience, it happening in the short term, but automation is coming, machine learning, all this great stuff is being promised. Looks good off the tee as they say in golf. But, the reality is that there's a lot of lip service out there. So the taglines, oh, we're strong on privacy. So, walking the talk is about having a position, not just the tagline or the talking points, having a positioning around it first, and getting an executive alignment. So final point: what's your advice to folks out there who either are thinking this through hard? Is it a matter of reducing choices, evaluation? What is your thoughts on how to attack and think about, and start moving the ball down the field, on privacy? >> Well that's a great question. I think certainly at NetApp, and as you mentioned earlier, our executive team, and certainly George Kurian, our CEO, absolutely has a philosophical belief in that fundamental right to privacy, and respects the fact that privacy is key to what we do. It has become a competitive advantage, almost in an accidental way, because we take it so seriously. It's a matter of balance. Absolutely, we need to take advantage of new technology. We're a technology company, we're building technology, but we also have to respect the fact that we operate around the world, and there are laws that we have to comply with, and those laws dictate what data we can and cannot have, and what we can do with that data. So it's that balance between data's our greatest asset, we need to protect it, it can also be our greatest detriment if we're not treating it in a respectful manner, and if we're not building technology that enables our customers to protect that fundamental right to privacy. >> Michael, from a management team perspective, obviously, have functioning with an alignment, implies a well-oiled machine. Now always the case these days. But how do you get there? What's your advice? >> You know, my advice is speak the language. CEOs, CFOs, administration, they basically don't want to hear this tech lingo at times, okay? Have them understand the basic fundamentals of what cyber security is, what it can do to the operations of an organization, what a breach can do financially to an organization. Really have those kind of put in place. Bring that story to the Board of Directors, have them kind of focusing on the fundamentals on this is why we're protecting our information, and this is why it is so critical to keep this information safe. Because the thing is, if you don't know how to tell the story, and if you don't know how to sell it, and really sell it to the point, you will not be successful-- >> That's a great point, Michael. And you know, we hear all the time too, the trend now is, IT has always been kind of a cost center. Security and data governance around privacy should be looked at not so much as a profit center, but as a, you could go out of business. So you don't treat it as maximizing your efficiency on costs, the effectiveness of privacy is a stay-in-business table stake. And that has an impact on revenue, so it's quasi-top line. >> Well absolutely. If you think about the sanctions under the new GDPR alone, you could have one data privacy violation that could, the sanction could be equal to four-percent of your annual global turnover. So it is something-- >> It's a revenue driver. >> It's a revenue driver. It's something you need-- >> It's a revenue saver. >> Yeah. Well for some companies-- >> It's a revenue saver. >> It's become a revenue driver. Yeah, absolutely. >> Most people think P&L, oh, the cost structure, profit center. If net profit, and then sales, this is a new dynamic where risk management actually is a profit objective. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Guys, great topic. We should continue this back in California. >> I'd love to. >> Michael, thanks for coming on and sharing the CIO perspective. >> Thank you very much. >> Great content. It's The Cube, breaking it down here, getting all the data and keeping it public. That's our job is to make all our data public and sharing it on SiliconANGLE.com and TheCube.net. More live coverage here in Las Vegas, with NetApp Insight 2017, after this short break. (electronic theme music) >> Narrator: Calling all barrier-breakers: status quo-smashers.

(clicking) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit in San Francisco at Pier 27, I got to look at it. I've never been here before. It's a cool facility right on the water, between Pier 39 and the Bay Bridge. We're really excited to have back, I can't believe it's been like three years. To have Sheila Jordan, she's a CIO of Symantec and last we saw you was, I looked it up it was Service Now Knowledge 2014. >> Yes that's correct. >> Sheila, great to see you. >> Sheila: Nice to see you. Thanks for being here. >> Absolutely. So I think when we first talked you were just starting in your role in Symantec and now you're three years into it, you just got off a panel about leading digital transformation, so just give us kind of a general view of what you've been up to and how has that journey been progressing? >> Right, well it's been quite a journey and I would say that it's been really a transformational journey. So the vision for Symantec really is to become the largest cyber security company in the world. And that vision really started two, two and half years ago and I'd say that today it's a reality. When I was hired, I was actually hired to in source IT, so we completed that and then when we went through the Veritas separation, so we separated the company with Veritas which was a pretty significant separation. And then subsequently we've acquired four or five companies, we've recently acquired the Blue Coat company, which with that acquisition, we get our CEO Greg Clark. And then we've also acquired some other companies on the consumer side so the LifeLock business is really tied to our consumer digital safety. So we've been very busy and now we've just announced a small divestiture on our website security business. So lots of acquisitions, lots of change, lots of transformation, that really would been bringing into the organization. >> Jeff: Right and you talked on the panel your job is you got to keep the lights on and keep things moving. Then you've got this acquisition and in your case big, the split the divestiture. But then you still want to innovate and you've talked about looking at new applications, and I thought a really interesting comment you made was about shadow IT. >> Right >> And shadow IT is not all bad. There's a reason that somebody decided to take that action. And really they're trying to understand why? And what was the application requirement? And not just throw it out as unauthorized use. Pretty interesting lesson. >> Sheila: Well a couple things on that. Working in an engineering organization you can't ignore when there's apps being used and come up, because there's a need. Obviously there's a need that the IT organization isn't providing and so what it that need? And what is that capability that the organization is looking for? Now the cool thing is we have technology called CASB which is the Cloud Access Security Broker. That allows us to look at the entire environment of what both cloud applications of who's using what. So for example, we are sanctioned and our standard is box, but I can look across the organization and see what cloud applications we're using and if Drop Box appears, that's a question to say no that doesn't make sense, our standard's box. But the reality is is that all other applications that might be coming out of the engineering organization's using, we should be asking ourselves why? What capability are we not delivering? And how do we bring that into the IT arsenal? >> Jeff: Right, right. And essentially you bring up the box example because another thing you talked about on the stage was your cloud adoption. So kind of you threw out a number, 62%. So I'm not exactly sure what 62% is. But where was it when you got there? What is 62%? What are you measuring? And there's conversations about direct ROI but it's a much more complicated formula than just a simple ROI. >> Yes it really is, and I would say that first of all, from an IT perspective, I think any CIO has the obligation to help the organization run, change, and grow. And forward thinking CEOs really understand that technology can be used to not only run the company, that's kind of old school legacy total cost of ownership costs. Really super important, but it's not only run, but how do you use the technology to change and grow? So when you have opportunities like Saas, that allow the CIOs to have, reduce our total cost of ownership, be more agile, have the Saas providers update their products and solutions and all of that, that's kind of on the Saas providers. It makes our job a little easier or different I'd say. What I mean by that is the role of the CIO hasn't changed. Our job is to protect the company's assets. All of our company's assets and our data whether that's customer data, employee data, partner data. And yet five or seven years ago, it was these monolithic applications it was a private data center. on-prem physical data center. It was massive or monolithic geopcs. All of that has changed. So the role hasn't changed but now we've got to think about Saas applications. Cloud, infrastructure as a service. Public cloud on the infrastructure side. We think about all the applications that are coming in on our mobile devices. We think about IOT, we think about structured and unstructured data. Our role is the same, but how we have to manage that complexity to help our companies and enable our companies run, change, and grow; it's just very different. >> Jeff: And then you get involved in kind of investigating how the second order impacts? Kind of the law of unintended positive consequences by going to a Saas application, for instance. Or going to some of these platforms that doesn't show up in the simple ROI analysis. >> No, I agree with that. But I also think it's total cost of ownership but it's also as important today, as a agility. Everyone wants to get to market faster. Everyone wants to feel to be more productive. So it's really the combination of both total cost of ownership and agility. >> Yeah you said an interesting thing too. "Speed is a habit." Which is a really interesting quote. Because everybody wants speed. >> Absolutely >> And we just had another guest who talked about speed actually does correlate to better software. Because it forces you to do that. But everybody wants speed. You got to have it. So the other, you were all over, I got notes. We could go on all day. I won't go on all day, but somebody talked about what are the limits? What are the limits of applications? As you made a really interesting comment that at the end of the day, it's just about the data flow, and having a horizontal view from your seat. You may find that there's other ways to skin that cat based on what other people are doing. >> Sheila: Right, so I would say one of the reasons I love being in IT, is we see horizontally. There's many functions in the company that see in those silos, but we get to see horizontally which means we see the redundancies in an organization and some of the gaps. And so and as the world changes, that it's less about these monolithic, huge applications, but more about cloud and Saas. It really becomes important about the data flow. Where is the data? Not only is it in that say sales force application, but how does that sales force application move to a box? And how does that content move from box to say some of the collaboration tools in technology and how does that move and flow? Our role has to be about, one: Understanding the data flow and really where that exists. And how do we enable the entire business? Every function to be even more productive. But also how we protect and secure that. So, I think it's so exciting that not only are we doing, our view in IT is to deliver that unified, end to end experience. And it all comes down to the reference architecture approach. But the other part why I'm so excited about Symantec is because we're moving into the notion and the vision of having an integrated cyber defense platform. And I'll explain that for one second. Because historically, the security business has been really fragmented. Point solutions to protect every layer of your architecture. So whether you had a point solution in infrastructure, or end points, or data, or at the web gateway layer. Whatever that was, and what happened is, over time, our recent report would suggest that a large enterprise has anywhere between 65 and 85 security products in there enterprise. Large, large enterprise. >> 65 to 85. >> Security products >> Point solutions. >> In their enterprise. (Jeff chuckles) Yeah and so >> Tough to manage. >> It becomes, yeah it really does. One of the visions that Greg Clark and Mike Fey have for our company, is why can't we be, and deliver this integrated, cyber defense platform? Because it's really connected. We then have products that will live at each layer of the architecture but connected. And so the really super cool thing about that, is that the white spaces between those fragmented products, really are breeding grounds for the bad guys to come in and stay awhile and sit and watch and observe. If you have all that legacy technology and legacy applications, it just becomes a breeding ground. And when you have an integrated cyber trends platform that actually allows it to be much more integrated and really reduce some of the risks and all for our CEOs and customers, a better opportunity to effectively manage their environment. >> Right and you guys are a security company, but also you're a CIO of trying to protect stuff. So you're in a really good spot. Cause the other thing that's happening is this radical increase in the tax services. Especially as we go beyond cloud and APIs to edge economy and IOT devices. As you kind of look at the future of both for protecting your own stuff but also helping to deliver the products for your customers, if the security space is really really rapidly evolving. >> Rapidly evolving and becoming even more important. Because again, the flow of data from your sales force application to your mobile device to IOT back to a content solution. Back to some of the collaboration. The flow of data, is now app to app, or Saas to Saas. Saas to device, device to infrastructure as a service, so it really is the flow of data is so dynamic, and so security becomes just super critical to make sure we're securing that data in motion. >> Right, Right. Yeah it's crazy. And even if you have the most secure systems, you might have lapses in protocol which we hear like some of the CAWS breaches, where somebody didn't configure something right. Alright so, I could keep you here all day (Sheila chuckles) But I won't. But I want to give you that last word. What's next? And there was a little bit of conversation on the panel, so I want to open that up again. As you kind of look forward or, the cloud thing's kind of done, the API thing is kind of done as you look forward, what's kind of the next ... Never say five years in this business. Next couple years, you're excited about the move in the industry forward. >> Sheila: Well I actually think, and I know it might be an overused term, but I really think that we're just scratching the surface on AI artificial intelligence and machine learning. We're using a lot of that in our products today and how we're building our security products. But when I think about corporate IT, and I think about how we deliver statistics and information about our business. So transactional reporting on bookings and revenue and forecast and expenses, there needs to be a better, more predictive way of analyzing that data and understanding it in a much more sophisticated AI. Machine learning that we get our customer insights. And we really start to use those insights into building out that kind of knowledge as we move forward. I look forward to really beginning to really really have some strategies on AI and machine learning in corporate IT. >> Alright, well Sheila Jordan it was great to see you. Hopefully it won't be >> Nice to see you! >> Three years >> Three years till we see you again! CIO of Symantec. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit San Francisco. Thanks for watching. >> Sheila: Thank you so much. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Q. At service now Knowledge fourteen is sponsored by service. Now here are your hosts, Dave Volonte and Jeff Frick. >> We're back. Sheila Jordan is here. She's the CEO of Symantec. We're live. This is the Cube. We're at service now. Knowledge fourteen at Mosconi in San Francisco. We're going to hear today, Wednesday and most of Thursday. So stop by. If you're at Mosconi, Mosconi south, Come in. Look to the right. Cuba's there. Stop by and say hello. Shelley. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you >> very much. Excited to be here. >> Yes, sir. You were across the street. I guess that, uh, the CEO event, right. What's what's the vibe like over there? Describe it. >> Well, I would say this about that three hundred or so CEOs and it really is fascinating because everyone's kind of discovering how important the clouds becoming and how relevant, Because becoming in the in the CIA world, it was years ago. It was more about if the clouds coming. And now it's here. And it's a question of CEOs of struggling whether answer, The question is, how does this really integrate with kind on from solutions? So, really, it's making the cloud more and more real. >> You know, it's interesting. Five years ago, if I asked the CIA about the clouds, you know, they would say It's another quiver in the another arrow in the quiver and you know we're looking at it. It's at its centre and some might say, Hey, we're not using the cloud, especially financial services. But practitioners would roll their eyes on the clouds. The clouds, I t. What do you mean? The cloud that cloud, the cloud that seems to have changed on the practitioner bases is more accepting of that notion of the cloud. What's changed? >> Well, I was a couple things. One is, I think, that when we used to kind of roll, our eyes were very concerned about the security of the cloud, for sure. And I think with the cloud providers have seen lots of improvements in the security angle. Nothing I'LL tell you is in it. We constantly get the pressure of delivering things faster and cheaper, and the cloud offers us that solution to be able to deliver things faster and cheaper, whether that's, you know, for your HR systems or whether that's for something of a solution. So promise Israel. We're beginning to see that, and I think they're really shoring up the security aspects of this. How >> does it change your roll? One of the changes that are sort of required from CEOs. Perspective. >> Yeah, I will say that I think that the CEO today is really focused on five big things mobile cloud structure and unstructured data. So the whole day to play as well as, you know, kind of your personal or professional identity. And then, of course, the final one is the Internet of everything. So Mohr devices coming into the enterprise. And I really think the thing that flows through those five things is two things. One is data that flows through that. So where the data is sourced from a cloud or on crime, the end user wants to have a similar experience whether we're the data source from and the second component is of course, you know how weak secure that. You know, The whole notion of security is becoming more and more critical that, you know, security things at the network layer is good, but in the end, device is good. But now we're being asked to really make sure that we're securing things across the entire enterprise stack. While everything's changing devices are changing, the sourcing is changing as well as you know now the new devices with the Internet of things. >> We do a lot of big data shows and it talks about the data is the new oil and, you know, the data centric organization. How real is that? It that Samantha? I mean, you've only been there three months, I know, but you know, least on your observations, just semantic. But generally in your community, how real is that? >> I think is very real. In fact, I would say that the job of the CEO is to protect the company's assets and to protect the data. And that's assumed that the employees assume that the CIA was going to do that. It's certainly become a bit more difficult, given cybercriminals are getting smarter and there's more hackers and more were ways to hack and, of course, the devices coming in. But I still think that the role of the CEO has to be to protect the country's assets. >> There's an interesting discussion we have. We actually do a conference in chief Data officer conference with them it in July, and the premise that Emmett has put forth is that chief data officer is a new role in the organization should be independent of the CIA, should appear of the CEO and have ownership over, you know, a lot of different. So the data assets the data taxonomy, data sources. It's still fuzzy where the lines are done. When you talkto a lot of the big data practitioners, they say, No way. That's the CEO's job. Um, have you thought about that much in terms of you need the datas are Are you the datas are? >> Yeah, I actually think you could, but especially, I think it depends on certain industries would make that more more >> realistic. Air Service is the regular. >> Actually think the chief information officer has information and data already, and I think that's a big part of our role. So whether it's a separate role or not, the coordination, the combination and reliance on each roll is really critical. >> So don't you have enough to do? Yes, well, now they wanted to innovate right way force of innovation. They want you to be a business partner of Value Creator outside of just the acid. So how does that all playing? Well, measure And >> that's why I guess it's so fun. We've always said that being an I t you gotta like change and being an I t for aninety company, you're really gonna like change. And I would say that it is What's exciting about the CIA role is yes, I can't authorize it simplistically, but it's around, run the business, changed the business and grow the business. And if historically, it might have been that CEOs were just about run the business, not anymore. CEOs are expecting us to run, change and grow. And we got to find solutions and technology cost effectively of how we can do that. >> And now you've got all these megatrends hitting you like a ton of bricks. Like you said, Cloud Mobile social. How's that kind of change the game in the last couple of years? >> Well, I thinkit's both exciting and daunting at the same time. I think it's exciting because it does open things up and again. Most of our employees are also our. All of our employees are consumers, so they're having this consumer like experience and they want to come into it and they want to come to work and now the same kind of experience. So I think it opens up a whole new way for us to deliver services. And one of the things we're working on in semantics is to create a services led organisation. What? We actually are delivering services. So your email services you're content service, your video service, your pricing service so that we can really deliver these services in a way that you have consumed the services as a consumer. >> So you used to be a mean still is most like tea shops. Talk about systems, you know? Sure, it's covered by claims system. That's where my investment is going. It's this big silo infrastructure built around. Do you see that changing? Where were the parlance, even changes to my services? This is my service catalog. Salome Charging for >> that. Yes, I do. Pretty sixteen pretty substantially. And we're implementing that kind of service is lead mentality. It's semantic now, and the reason is because the system of the applications is at some level kind of irrelevant. You know, you gotta replace systems and applications, but ultimately you don't want to replace the service customer. Our employees want to get used to having that video service. They really don't care anymore where it sourced from on from in the cloud, and they don't necessarily care about what technology was used to get there. They want their service. So I think as a ninety organization won by creating the services led organisation, you are really clear about how you're spending the dollars and really clear about how the transparency of the cost of those services and then really clear to your point. You know, I love to shop on the Internet as a consumer, and I'm so used to picking and clicking right. And so we want to deliver services that simply to the organization that people understand the service in the cost of the services. >> So did you see I love the whole concept of portfolio management, the application portfolio, run, the business, grow the business transformed business, the old meta group, you know, taxonomy. I love that and and And I could see I used to work with CEOs all the time, and they would actually use that and say, OK, we're just going to subjectively say, Here's my run. The business absence. My grows, the business grow. The business has transformed the business. We're going to allocate the portfolio accordingly. Do you look at your services catalogue the same way. And how does it where would you like to see it? It's It's very difficult to get out of that seventy thirty year, you know, because by definition, you're always running. Yes, you know so But how do you look at that? That mix and how do you What's your ideal mix? >> Well, it's very difficult because you do have to do kind of portfolio planning, but I do think with Cloud Solutions it offices offers us a different solution to be more cost effective and agile. So clearly you're gonna have some and run the business. But I'm not necessarily spending a lot of money on the actual infrastructure to take some on from solutions that we used to do. So the cost will be total cost of ownership. It should be less with some of the cloud services. That's the promise. So when I think about run, grow change, I know other sources like Gardner and Forrester will say that a large enterprise company spends sixty five seventy percent on run the business. Still, even though I've made all these advancements, we haven't aspirational goal. It's Samantha Guy t. I'm not sure we can get there because again it feeds. But if we could get to a point that we are really a third, a third a third, wouldn't it be cool if I could deliver two thirds of the spent on change and grow versus run? So it's aspirational, but I'm not giving you that. >> But you know what? So maybe maybe we're thinking about the wrong way, because maybe that's an impossible equation to solve. Maybe we should be looking. I wonder if you'd get your feedback on this just struck me. Maybe we should think about it like almost like product cycles. I remember one of the CEOs around here. We usedto be very proud of the fact that a product cycle intensive business said seventy percent of the products that we have, you know, on the seventy percent of our revenue is coming from products that we've announced in the last twelve months. Maybe that's how we should be looking out for, because by definition they're going to be more modern, more innovative, and with the services catalog approach, you may be able to do that. These are the services that we've launched in the last X number of months, we could look att consumption. Do you think that's ah, Reasonable, >> I think is actually interesting way to look at. And I would say that was some of the things that service now is actually introducing. You know, one of the things we want A ninety is just visibility. What service is being used if I had a rank them and them? Ranking and writing. Oh, they four stars, five stars. We want that visibility across organization and delete, delete, delete. The things are defective and that aren't working sometimes the nineteen. We don't know that or see that. So one of the things I think it's really important is with service now or any other solutions is that when we get that visibility, we could go back and say to the organization, Look for people using the service. You know, it's no longer effective as it used to be, less deleted and again that feeds into that cost savings will feed into run the business and growing >> Jr s getting rid of stuff. We never get rid of stuff. And I really that's my goal is value. We have to leave. You need to leave Well, That's interesting that you put a different twist on. We hear a lot about now the apus king, right? Everyone is about the at the at the AP line of business was to build your own app. But you're really putting the certain delivering. The APP is a service above explore application and knocking down the value of the particular app that delivers that service. >> Yeah, I am, for a couple reasons. First of all, not miso and a mobile device you're going to need your absolute All are addicted to our certain laps, for sure. But the reason why I think about that on the Enterprise is because a service is going to be ultimately comprised of the technology process and culture and people, right. So a nap in my mind still gets us to just the technology. When reality To make these service Israel and continue to optimize the services, you're gonna need the service owner. You got people in process to really optimize that service. So it's the super structure >> right above the to deliver the revised >> Yes, yes, and that's a really good point. I think in the past it is always and we always will be held the total cost of ownership. It's really, really, really critical that we show and be fully transparent of our cost. But I actually think with the new technology that's available and we're being expected by our CEO's is we have to deliver value as muchas cost value at a reduced cost or an approved cost. But I think the the conversation needs to continue to push. What's the value that technology can deliver? Not on ly the Kansai, and that's happening. >> We heard earlier today. Friend of yourself, Frank Ski? No, but he was talking about how you had, you know? So the traditional days you got application group, you got infrastructure group infrastructure does operations. They you know, they take the code and take it. You know, the employees at the application guys, you know, we all know the story. Now you see the devil ops culture you're seeing programmable infrastructure. Is that happening in your organization? You see those sort of two worlds defusing or morphing into the business and becoming a devil sculpture >> in pocket. So and say where we have those labs or where we have proof of concepts in pockets, Yes, hasn't been pervasively changed in the organization. Not quite yet. And I think a couple things One is we're in some ways just learning about kind of infrastructure as a service and how I can actually you push up a server and fifteen seconds or less type thing and provisions at server in fifteen seconds. So we're learning as an organization, the whole sum or is Asians are simply better than others, but we're learning on the whole infrastructure of the service. We're learning how we could deliver the applications as a service. So I think the next net and so we're using agile development things and scrums and things like that. But I think the next natural evolution is Dev Ops. Now, I would say that you gotta be kind of careful and where you play and push that because it's a holy learning. You gotta make sure the people challenge. You have been really? Yeah, skills and talents. But I do think it's the next next area, folks. >> So we'LL pick up on infrastructure is a service. We obviously you got the gold standard of of Amazon. Look at him. He's gonna go. Wow, That's pretty impressive what they've done do you look at that and say, OK, there's a big chunk stuff in the margins development that we should just put in tow that cloud Or do you say, why don't we duplicate that? Replicate that in house. Which approach do you think your organization? Well, >> for almost two reasons we're doing Private Cloud. You know, again, I want to be the biggest proof point of semantics products that I possibly can. So that means I have to be customer one toe are semantic products and test them out and make sure we're giving the feed back back to the semantic group. So we're building our private cloud inside semantic right now, which really will become that infrastructure as a service using the latest and greatest technology software to find networks, etcetera, that we're really going to get the whole stack that allows us to do that. And I will tell you that that where we are today versus what the vision is, it will actually leapfrog the foundation of what we're able to do with the company. >> Okay, so So you want essentially duplicate that and guess what You know, the public loud guys are doing That's very secure environment pressures on. Yes, Believe me, I know in time. So now now does that chance. Talking about skill sets before they change the type of people you need to bring in, you have to hire more PHDS way. >> Well, it's not really the species is the real technical talent that no, this new space. So again we had done a several years. Semitic has outsourced their I t organization. And as we bring that in, we gotta make sure and bring in the right skills that supports the new technology. >> So also, outsourcing ended up being, you know, sort of my mess for less, and then it ended up not being less so. You know, a lot of guys have brought that back in, but okay, so you sort of replicated, tryto, tryto leapfrog that capability. Do you become a a profit center? >> Oh, I think it's dangerous. I think it's a real slippery slope if it becomes a profit center. And the reason I say that, it's because I think our focus and our number one job is to really deliver an optimal excellent experience for employees while providing again being in it for ninety company. I think our job is to make sure we deliver the best experience we can while showcasing our products internally and testing and using them. The second you have another motive or another driver, I think it takes the eye. >> So I kind of agree with you. I mean, I do what I don't In the one hand, if you were to sell your services externally than I gave him that, I would disagree, Right? But because you've got a captive audience, you saying you would basically monopolistic power, corrupt, like all monopoly, we >> can certainly come up with what I've pushed suggested my team is way can come up with a whole bunch of ideas of how to improve the product. Or maybe there's a gap in our product strategy that we can suggest to the business unit. So I think in that case, as we come up with and we are the number one customer of our products, that we have ways to enhance it before the product goes to market or opens up another opportunity. Our business unit leaders are really open >> Now. What about chargebacks? Okay, so you're not going profit center. What about chargebacks? >> You know, another thing that I think is a pretty slippery slope. You know cross charging charge bags. It's a complex overhead that ifyou're one company, why do you add that I'm a real a real simple person, and I just like it simple and easy as someone hold accountable and >> companies don't do it, they fif. Fifteen percent of companies will do charge back. It sort of stuck there >> a lot of a lot of over a lot. Yeah, and I'd rather drive accountability into the person that's delivering the service has accountability to do that. It's cost effectively as possible. >> So, Sheila, on the Five Things you mentioned, one of them was your your personality. Well, it was a personal thing I know is you went to a very quickly. >> I'm sorry. So five big trends that I see happening from a knight from a trending perspective in the industry that CIA is really going to need to be thinking about it. And they have already This isn't new, but I do think the five together is pretty powerful. It's of course, mobility, right? It's cloud all the cloud services. Third is around data. So both unstructured and structure data coming together. And of course, I think Nirvana on that one is when unstructured data could be fed into part of the decision. Making like structure data is right. That's going interesting. The fourth is the convergence of personal professional identities. So people are coming into the organization with their mobile phones and they want one phone. They want one device. So how does it professionals and what's the right solution for different industries merged, or at least containerized, whichever one you want to do? The personal versus professional identities and in the last one is, of course, mobility is one thing. But all this explosion of other devices >> get me on the mobile, >> right? And so and then what? Lose all that together is data and, of course, security way have to make sure all that secured as we traverse all those different trends. >> Actually, we're here. Where do you report into the organization >> by reporter Seo Stevens? Let >> Seo. Okay, so let's say Stephen's doing your performance review. You know, when you came on its okay, these air, your objectives if you maybe, you know, you guys write it together. What a Your objectives for the next twelve months. >> Yeah, so it's interesting times, it's semantic, and I would say that we've agreed that it is been there now sixty days so over. Greed is really this. Insourcing is a pretty big effort initiative and especially around how we can stand up our own data center, our own network, all the others ligation migration. It's a pretty big effort. The other part, I would tell you, is pretty important for semantic right now. Is the global Security Office reports to me as well, so understanding the security risks and making sure that we really do have have understood and really being thought, leadership in the security space. That's kind of number two. And I would say, in general the overall services lead how we change the structure of the organization, the number three >> and and I would imagine here on early consumer of a lot of the semantics security product. >> Yes, they are. >> So you must be pretty important. Constituent throttle groups have a lot of a lot of juice with those guys. It >> that's part of the job it's really, really fun is when we could actually provide some important feedback on their products and see it see it built into the road map. It gets quite exciting >> So how you know, we heard again Frank this morning saying, Look, see, I always gotta know as much about the business is business people do. That's that's a tall order, especially in a company the size of a semantic. But do you buy that? At least in part on How do you How do you develop that knowledge? >> Well, I would say that, you know, first of all, yes, I buy into it. I really do think and again it goes back to being in it for ninety company Being there customer you have. You have a pretty big seat at the table, and I think it's really important that you're not only giving advice and counsel on, you know, the product strategy and where we think there could be potential gaps and where things could be improved. But you also have to tell someone you know what that price old or we don't want to use that anymore or show some of the some of the inefficiencies in the product. So I think one is being absolutely tied to the product strategy, and having a voice in the product strategy is really critical. And again, I think, given that you represent the customer base at that table is also quite exciting. >> You go to sales meeting. >> I'm actually not yet sixty days, but we actually have a big customer meeting coming up next week which I'll be attending. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a great way to learn about the products and the challenges. >> Yes, that too. And I love talking to the customers in my previous rules, like talkto the customers in line. >> So they talk about the evolution of the rules, Theo in the not tech company, um, and change of tech as a competitive different theater in York Disney for you before Cisco Ice Arlington. So how is that changing >> lights? They Actually, it's kind of similar challenges in being an I t. For the tech company. You really are kind of tied to the product of being an instrumental influence in the product strategy. That's one in a non tech company. You are challenged with this whole notion. Well, that's what I get as a consumer. So I still even thinking a non titan technology company when they come to work and they have a less technical experience in the user. Experience is less than one way to get at home. I think consumers in general are just getting smarter and smarter. Smarter about I have that that email storage ten acts that at home I have my mobile device that were You know, all these things that were experienced as consumers is coming into all the industries in that expectation of I wanna work differently is just that you get on company >> with no appreciation of what it means even more just the magic in the Magic Kingdom about that conversation we had before. I mean, is the gold toe really replicate that or just get good enough? You know, I think you know Microsoft. There we say suffers Good enough. They made a ton of money and good enough business because can you get there because you're talking about scale of Amazon and Google and Facebook and Microsoft? So do you have to be just good enough? Where do you have to be? Good as good or better? You said leapfrog back, or that was that was notable. >> Gonna leapfrog our data center structure data center strategy. What I think is I do think in delivering a servant out has two teenage children in college, and they sometimes wonder. You know why work is that both now manage the enterprise, and they can't quite figure out talking to interns at work. They can't figure out why they don't have. This is twenty twenty one. Yes, I can't quite figure out why the experiences the same. And when I told my children as well as the intern Group, I says, Listen, work is a bit more complicated than face the pictures and status, you know, work really is. And as a nineteen professional, you have this obligation and responsibility to protect the company's assets. So, no, do I ever want to get to a point that it's as easy as Facebook? What do I ever want to get to a point that you know, pictures on instagram and things like that? It's not practical to put that in the enterprise. Do I want to get to a point that their applications that they use on a daily basis and we're driving a sales sales forecast and it's really important that timely and decision making of that as an app on their phone? Yes, I do. >> And it's self serving self service mobile. >> So yes, I think we have to be really careful and really explicit about what app. So the right APS for work and what happens to the ones that you know are just too much risk >> that this expectation set in communications and all the stuff that new CEO has really got a good act with a head of steam. It's good crystal. All right? Shall we gotta leave it there? Thanks very much for coming with >> me as well. Thank >> you. Thank you. All right, but keep it right there. We'LL be back to wrap up Day one from service now. Knowledge, We're live. This's the Cube right back.

>>Yeah. Hello and welcome to the Cuba's International Women's Showcase, featuring International Women's Day. I'm John, host of the Kiwi here in California. Great remote guest. She's amazing founder and C e O of Cuba, and great to see you. Okay, thanks for coming on. Um, good to see you. >>You as well. Always a pleasure. You >>know, International Women's Day is the big celebration. We're doing a lot of interviews with great people making things happen, moving and shaking things. Um, but every day, International Women's Day, As far as I'm concerned, it's happening all around the world. But these are stories of innovation, the stories of changes, the stories of transformation for the better. You've been doing a lot of things. Um and I want to get into that. But let's start with your background. Tell us a bit about who you are and what you've got going on. >>Yeah, my background is a little strange. I used to be a maritime archaeologists. So dumb shit breaks for a little bit. That was amazing. I always just It's only partial just because it's actually a bit of truth to it, that learning how to, you know, handle things at depth really does train you to be a C e o. Because you learn to control your breath and and focus on the things that matter and not be so reactive because it's three activity that will panic that will kill you. Uh, always knowing how to reframe. Return to the basics. Um, there's a really good things to hold on to, even in the world of business. Right? So I at some point, ended up doing doing a lot of things. Largely business development, following my time diving and amazing woman. Um, another woman for International Women's Day named Doctor who was a biotech entrepreneur from Japan, stepping down as her role at the helm of her company. Um, and she wanted to launch a space for a young innovators from around the world who are doing amazing work to tackle this very complex challenges we all know exist, um, and figure out a way to give them time and space to do their best work and pursue their their highest visions for change. We decided that we would focus on for-profit companies largely who were using sustainable, scalable business models to pursue both profit and purpose. Um creating a virtuous cycle between the return of money to a company and putting that into to go even further and faster towards, um, solving a problem. Um, so we now have companies over 200 companies from around the world that we have helped support tackling every single, sustainable development goal. Um, and I'm proud to say, you know, particularly related to the subject that fifty-nine percent of our companies have a woman founder or CO-FOUNDER. Um, and 69% of the founder of color. Um, so we're working with entrepreneurs from every every area of the world. Many approximate to the problem that they are trying to solve, so they intimately understand it. Um, and they're doing amazing things. >>Yeah, you can help the great mission. You have a lot of other things going on your helping women encouraging them to your career in the tech sector. Um, good statistics could be better, right? Is higher and better. So, um, what are you guys doing? What, you specifically to help and encourage women to forge their career and tech? >>Yeah. I mean, look, the good news is I do think that it's getting better. I particularly think that we will see the adventure is improving. Um, it takes a while because the companies that have been funded up until now are still working in the biggest amount in the later stages. So I think that percentage hasn't been shifting. But I have to believe that that's a bit of an illusion, and then a couple of years, we're going to start to sea level out. But you know as well as I do that they're pretty poultry statistics in terms of the amount of venture that women like cos. Capture, Um, and the other ways that women are doubted, um, in terms of their ability and potential. Um, so we we love to work with any underrepresented group of entrepreneurs, and there's ways that we do that whether it's helping them sort of find their power and hold space and be confident. And, um, you know, be able to pitch to any room, talk to any investor, talk to any customer but also working to be directed about some of the systemic challenges, both in terms of talking to existing investors and trying to educate them to see the opportunities that they're missing because there is a an economic imperative to them understanding what they're missing. Um, but there's also some things that we're doing in-house to make sure that we're also helping to close capital gaps for all our entrepreneurs. So we actually now have a suite of three capital mechanisms that are entrepreneurs can access on the back end of our incubator, a microphone fund, which is very quick turnaround, small amounts of capital for entrepreneurs who existing opportunities owns, which is a tax destination. Just this in the U. S. But that's meant to be deployed so that they can access capital towards revenue without credit checks, collateral being put up, a slow moving pace of banks and C. D. S s. It's particularly useful for people who may not raise venture. And it's useful for, uh, you know, people who maybe don't have that friends and family check that they can expect similar. We've got a great angel network who look at the best impact deals from around the world. Um, and it doesn't have to be a housing company, just a great venture that's pursuing impact on profit. Um, and then lastly, we're just about to announce that we have a fund of our own on the back end of our incubator that funds only healthy and companies. Um, it's an early stage fund. Um, but watch this space because our pipeline is just increasing your every year. We used to sort of just 16 companies here. Now, we're serving 60 this year, so, um, yeah, it's really exciting. Um, and so obviously, it's really great that, you know, we're going to be able to help scale the impact that we want to see. Uh, ideally a lot. A lot faster. >>Well, you definitely taking control. I remember when we had a few years ago. I think four years ago, you just thinking about getting going and going now with great tailwind. Um, >>and the diversity >>of sources of capital as well as diversity of firms is increasing. That's helping, uh, that we're seeing, but you're also got the back end fun for the housing companies. But also, you've been involved in we capital for a long time. Can you talk about that? Because that's a specific supporting women entrepreneurs initiative. Um, yeah. What's up with capital share? That >>was That was another venture that I-i embarked on with such coz. Um as well as Sheila Johnson and Jonny Adam, Person who runs Rethink Impact. We capital is a group of about 16 women that I pulled together women investors to invest through rethink impact, which is another fun that is looking for impact businesses but predominantly looking for those businesses that are led by women. So this investment group is women supporting women. Um, through the use of deployment of capital, um, they're doing amazingly well. They've had some really stunning news recently that I'll let you dig up. >>I'll definitely thanks for the lead there. I'm gonna go jump on that story. >>Yeah, >>the Okay, Thanks for that lead on that trend, though in Silicon Valley and certainly in other areas that are hot like New York, Boston and D. C. Where you're at, um, you're seeing now multiple years in almost a decade in of the pioneers of these women, only funds or women only firms and your investment. Um, and it's starting to increase to under all underrepresented minorities and entrepreneurs. Right? So take us through how you see that because it's just getting more popular. Is that going to continue to accelerate in your mind? Are their networks of networks. They cross pollinating. >>Yeah, I think you know, it's It's I'm glad to see it. And, you know, it's been a long time coming. I think you know, I think we all look forward to a future where it's not necessary. Um, and you know, funds. Just invest in everyone Until then, making sure that we have specific pools of capital allocated to ensure that that, you know, those entrepreneurs who have not always been equally represented get to pursue their ideas not just because they deserve to pursue their ideas, but because the world needs their ideas. Right. And as I mentioned, there is a business imperative, right? We've got lots of examples of businesses like banks that you wouldn't have gotten a shot just because the investors just didn't understand the opportunity. Um, and I think that's normal. That's human. It happens to everyone. You are successful as an investor largely because you recognize patterns. And if something is, you know, outside of your life experience, you are not going to identify it. So it's very important that we create different kinds of capital run by different types of people. Um, and, uh, and you know. I know lots of investors have every type that are investing in these funds because they recognize that, you know, perhaps the highest growth potential is gonna come out of these, you know, particular kind of funds, which is really exciting. >>That's super important, because half the world is women, and that's just like the population is inspired by many new ventures. And that's super exciting trend. I wanna ask you about your other areas of doing a lot of work in the queue has been to buy multiple times, um, initially reporting on a region out there, and that's certainly isn't important part of the world. Um, you've got a lot of good news going on there. Can you share what's going on with, uh, the social entrepreneurship going on in Bahrain around the region? >>Yeah, I'm happy to. We we've actually been so privileged to work with a W S for a very long time. Almost since the start of the incubator they've supported are entrepreneurs, all of our entrepreneurs with access to cloud credits and services. Um, and we've sort of double down with a W S in the last couple of years in areas where We both want to create an uplift, um, for small businesses and rapidly growing tax solutions to these these social environmental problems. We see. So there's been an excellent partner to do that. And one of the areas we did in the water was with rain, particularly with women, tech startups, women tech startups in Bahrain. Yeah, we did that last year. We had an amazing group of women over in D. C. Um, and we continue to support them. One of them is actually in the process of raising. I think she just closed her seed round recently. And that's why for, um, al yet, um, and she created playbook, which is an amazing, uh, platform for women to take master classes and network and really sort of level up, as one says, Um, but also, um, the mall of work. Um uh, just really talented women over in Bahrain, um, pushing the envelope and all sorts of directions, and it was wonderful to get the opportunity to work with them. Um, that has now spawned another set of programs serving entrepreneurs in the Middle East in North Africa. They were also working on with us as well as the U S. State Department. Um, so we're going to be working for the next two years with entrepreneurs to help our recovery from covid. Um, in China. Um, and then I'm also proud to say that we're working with a W s in South Africa because there is just an extraordinary energy, you know, in the continent, Um, and some amazing entrepreneurial minds working on, you know, the many problems and opportunities that they're facing and recognizing. Um So we're supporting, you know, companies that are working on finding, um, skilled refugees to be able to help them resettle and use their talents and make money. Um, sadly, are very relevant company now with what's going on in Ukraine. Um, but also, uh, zombie and satellite company, um, companies that are preventing food, food waste by providing, um, solar-powered refrigerators to rural areas in South Africa. Um, so a lot of, um, you know, just incredible talent and ideas that we're seeing globally. Um, and happy to be doubling down on that with the help of a W s. >>That's awesome. Yeah, following the work when we met in D. C. And again, you always had this international view um it's International Women's Day. It's not North America >>Women's Day. It's >>International Women's Day. Can you share your thoughts on how that landscape is changing outside the U. S. For example, and around the world and how the international peace is important and you mentioned pattern matching? Um, you also, when you see patterns, they become trends. What do you see forming that have been that that are locked in on the U. C they're locked in on that are happening that are driving. What are some of those trends that you see on the international side that's evolving? >>Yeah. You know, I think the wonderful opportunity with the Internet and social media is that, you know, both, uh, we can be more transparent about areas for improvement and put a little pressure where maybe things are moving fast enough. We've all seen the power of that, Um, the other, um, you know, things that certainly in countries where women maybe as free to move and operate, they can still acquire skills education they can set up cos they can do so so much. Um, you know, through these amazing technologies that we now have at our disposal growing an amazing rates. Um, they can connect via zoom. Right? I think that while the pandemic definitely set women back and we should acknowledge that, um, uh, the things that the pandemic perhaps helped us to exponentially scale will move women forward. And perhaps that's the target to hang on to, to feel optimistic about where we're headed. >>And also, there's a lot of problems to solve. And I think one of the things we're seeing you mentioned the Ukraine situation. You're seeing the geopolitical landscape changing radically with technology driving a lot of value. So with problems comes opportunities. Um, innovation plays a big role. Can you share some of the successful stories that you were inspired by that you've seen, um, in the past couple of years. And as you look forward, what What some of those innovation stories look like? And what are you inspired by? >>Yeah. I mean, there's so, so many. Um, you know, we just, uh, had a couple of entrepreneurs, and just the last year, Um, you know, after I think everyone sort of took an initial breath with the pandemic, They realize that they either had an opportunity or they had a problem to solve to your point. Um, and they did that well or not. And or some of them, you know, just didn't didn't have any more cards to play and had to really pivot. Um, it was really interesting to see how everyone handled handled that particular moment in time. One company that I think of is everywhere. Um, and she had created a wearable device that you can just put on your ear. It looks like an earring right at the top of your ear. Um, and it was for her for herself because she suffered from pulmonary complications. And, uh, without more discreet wearable, you know, had to wear a huge device and look around and oxygen tank and, you know, just to sort of have a good quality of life. Um, it turns out, obviously, during covid, that is a very useful item, not just for patients suffering from covid and wanting to know what their oxygen levels were doing, but also potentially athletics. So, um, she's really been able to double down as a result of the trends from the pandemic. Um, and I'm really proud of part of her. And that's actually where another great one that we just just came through. Our last 15 is Maya. Um, and she had a brick and mortar store. Um, uh, called Cherry Blossom. Intimate where she helped women have an enjoyable experience finding, uh, and fitting bras post mastectomy to include sort of, you know, the necessary, um, prosthetics and things like that. Um, she even made it so that you could go with your friends who haven't had a mistake, and she could also find some lovely luxury. Um, but the pandemic meant that that experience was sort of off the table. Um, and what they did was she decided to make it a technological one. So now she's she's essentially will be part of it. You can, you know, go to my, um, online. And you can, um, you know, order, uh, measure yourself, work with a specialist, all online, get a few different options, figure out the one that's perfect for you and the rest back. Um, and I don't think without the pandemic, that would not have happened. So she's now able to serve exponentially more. Um, you know, women who deserve to feel like themselves post it to me. >>That's also a model and inspirational. I have to ask you for the young women out there watching. What advice would you share with them as they navigate into a world that's changing and evolving and getting better with other women, mentors and entrepreneurs and or just an ecosystem of community? What advice would you give them as they step into the world and have to engage and experience life? >>Yeah, gosh, part of me always wants to resist that they don't listen to anyone to do you follow your heart, follow your gut, or at least be careful who you listen to because a lot of people will want to give you advice. I would >>say, Uh, that's good advice. Don't take my advice. Well, you've been a great leader. Love the work, you're doing it and I'll say N D. C. But all around the world and again, there's so much change going on with innovation. I mean, just the advances in technology across the board, from with machine learning and AI from linguistics and understanding. And I think we're going to be a bigger community. Your thoughts on as you see community organically becoming a big part of how people are engaging. What's your what's your view As you look out across the landscape, communities becoming a big part of tribes. What's your vision on how the role of communities place? >>You know, we we actually do you think a lot about community and healthy. And we say that are you know, alchemy really is providing space, you know, physical and mental space to think, um, access access to capital access to networks, Um, community, Um, and the community piece is very, very important. Are entrepreneurs leave us like the number one thing that they miss is being among like-minded, um, you know, slightly slightly crazy audacious people. Um, and I often joked that we're building a kind army because it is, you know, it's people who want to do it differently if people want to do it with integrity. Is people who are in it for a very different motivations than just money. Um, and, you know, you start to feel the power of that group together and its entirety and what that might look like as as a community solving global problems. Um, and it really is inspiring. Um, I do think that people are starving for FaceTime and people time, real human time after the pandemic, I think they won't go away. It's a great tool, but we all want a little bit of that, and I will mention just along those lines. And if you don't mind a quick plug for an event that we're having March 16, Um, also in partnership with a W s called Build her relevant to International Women's Day as well. People can, either. If they're in the city, they can come in person. But we also have a virtual program, and we'll be listening to some of the most inspiring. Women leaders and entrepreneurs both in government and also the private sector share their knowledge on the side of the pandemic for for, you know, the next tribal group of women entrepreneurs and leaders. >>That's great. Well, you are on our website for sure. >>Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. >>And we love the fact that you're in our community as well. Doing great work. Thanks for spending time with the Cube and on International Women's Day celebration. Thanks for coming on and sharing. >>Thank you, John. >>Okay. The Cube International showcase Women's Day, featuring some great guests all around the world, Not just in the U S. But all over the world. I'm your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, hm, Yeah.

(energetic electronic music) >> Narrator: Live from Nassau in the Bahamas, it's theCUBE! Covering POLYCON18, brought to you by Polymath. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is exclusive live CUBE coverage here in the Bahamas for POLYCON18, it's a crypto event. Just talking economics. It's all the players in the space really discussing the future. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante. Our next guest, Bill Tai, friend, Facebook friend, industry legend, venture capitalist, kite surfer. His Twitter handle is @kitevc. Follow him. He's also involved in Bitfury and a lot of Bitcoin-related activities. Been a mentor to others. Great to have you, Bill. >> Thank you, John. I really appreciate you having me on the show. >> You tweeted in 2010, "This Bitcoin thing is interesting. "Check out this white paper." Can? >> Yeah, that was a >> Seminal moment. >> You know, back then I didn't know it would be, maybe a seminal moment. I was just lonely. (laughing) So, and the back story there, a very good friend of mine is Philip Rosedale, and he had approached me when he was starting a site called Second Life, where you basically create a digital avatar, maybe of yourself, maybe not, and you have this kind of, you know, world where you have people in an unstructured environment. And in the very early days of Second Life, when people were kind of just milling about, I said to Philip, I said, "Hey, Philip. "You know, maybe we should create a currency." I said, you know like, "If you think about it. "Think about what is Las Vegas? "Las Vegas is this pile of sand "but there is this metropolis on it. "How did that happen?" I said, "You know, if you took ten people, "sat them in a circle, and you put one poker chip "in the system, and said 'Pass it to the right,' "and everybody did that a million times a year. "Everybody would have a million dollars of income. "And then you could take chunks off "and build a casino, and build a resort, "and you'd have Las Vegas." So I said, "Let's do that." And so the Linden dollar was born. And so, soon, there was this thriving economy in Second Life that just, it was quite amazing to see. And so, when Bitcoin came out in 2009, as soon as I heard about it, I wanted to see what it was. So I went to the site and I read the paper, and it just seemed really cool. And so I started to play with it a little bit, and by 2010, I just thought it was really cool, but no one else had seen it. >> Yeah. >> So I took to Twitter to say, (laughing) "Is anyone out there "using this P to P digital currency?" You know, and >> It's funny. Our first web, You know, I started SiliconANGLE in 2009. David and I partnered in 2010. Our first website, the developer didn't want PayPal. He wanted Bitcoin. It was 22 cents, I think, at the time and we used the site for about half a year, and then we changed it and went back paid fiat. But if you think about where these come from, you brought up Second Life. Okay, online virtual world, really ahead of its time, but really set the stage for what we're seeing now. Gaming people who know virtual currencies, thrive on crypto. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So I'd like to get your perspective. Because, I know you've done a lot of investing in mobile and gaming, and what not. Where does that cross over? Because there's been a lot of virtual currencies going on in games. >> Yes. >> For a long, long time. >> Yes. >> How is that influencing and impacting this industry? >> Well, you know it's, I guess you have to ask, when you ask, you know, where does the real and where does the digital, like do they cross? And what are they? What is currency? Is the U.S. dollar real, right? And actually, let me pause for a second and reach down to my phone, because did you see a tweet today from Sheila Bair? I have to read this. Okay, so I just saw a tweet from @zerohedge earlier today. Sheila Bair, on Bitcoin, Quote, "I don't think we should ban it. "The green bills in your pocket don't have "an intrinsic value either." >> Well, look, the government wants to get rid of paper money. The people want to get rid of paper money. Why not? >> What is it really? Right? I mean so >> Backed by the U.S. military maybe, I don't know, I mean what >> What is it? >> What is it? Right. >> That's a good question. >> So I don't really see a difference. You know, they're kind of the same thing. You know, it's just something that people believe in, as the embodiment of value exchange. Whatever it is. So if it's a green piece of paper, or it's not. If it's shell, if it's a pebble. There is a fascinating book that you can read called The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson. He's at Stanford now at the Hoover Institute, but he got widely known after the great financial crisis unfolded. He basically wrote a book called The Ascent of Money which tracks the history of value exchange across civilized communities, for thousands of years, from pebbles to shells, to feathers, to credit, to default swaps. And coined the term "Cimerica," which is sort of the interdependence of the cash flow. And what became apparent to me when I read that, was that the world of ICOs is actually no different than anything we've experienced in civilized humanity. You know, if you think about, even in the United States, in the 1800s, at one time there were over 200 currencies circulating at the same time. If you think about the formation of the United States as colonies, a bunch of guys get off the boats. They draw lines around the forest. Here's Connecticut, here's Vermont, here's New York, here's Virginia. Let's do an ICO. They all did an ICO. If you think about it, they created their own unit of currency per their community and geography, no different than what's happening today. >> When Lincoln was shot, there was a five dollar confederate bill in his wallet, right? I mean, the confederates had their own money. >> Yeah, and also you brought a point up in the conference you were in in Dubai, which I thought was really intriguing, and provocative, but also kind of real. The Oil Dollar Association post-World War II, >> Yeah >> Essentially wasn't actually securitizing oil That was an ICO. >> It was the tokenization of oil, right. Yeah, so, you know, the modern currency system that we have today, that is commonly known as the Petrodollar, so it's actually a relatively recent phenomenon. So if you think about, of course, the quote "U.S. dollar" was around a little bit longer than 1944, but it was really at Brett Woods that the dollar had its sort of birth to become the world's standard currency. And, you know, this is maybe a little bit of an over-simplification, but think about the picture after World War II. So, you basically have every major productive economy have war, destroy themselves. The U.S. enters late, finishes it all off completely, and you basically have 100 million people milling about. A little bit like Second Life, right? So, what do you do? Got to make them productive. Create a currency, set of currencies. So for every community of interest, like every token community of interest, you say, "Well, here's a lira, here's a franc, "Here's a pound, here's a mark. "Let's take gold, "reference the dollar to gold, and reference "every one of these currencies against the dollar. "Gentlemen, start your engines." Right? >> There you go. >> So how is that different than an ICO? Okay, so that was fixed to gold for a long time until people started to game it. And when the French accumulated a lot of dollars and they realized, whoa, there's more dollars than there is gold, I'm just going to go cash all this in. So they literally came over to take all the gold, and then the president took it off the gold standard. >> Dave Vellante: That's right. >> So it had to couple with something. So what it the utility token that that became? That became referenced to petroleum because the U.S. had basically forced everybody in the Middle East to accept dollars as payment and what that did was it created the dollar as a storage of energy. So you could basically take a token of oil and, as a separate nation, you could store that through your trade, if you had sort of a surplus, and you provided yourself energy security. >> Well, most currencies, right, historically have had a pretty short shelf life. Presumably the same will be true in the Blockchain world. >> Don't know. >> The crypto world. >> Yeah, it's, if you look at the history of humans over six million years, and it's arguable it's at four or six, or whatever it is, you're right. Like there have always been multiple currencies all the time. And very rarely have they ever become sort of like super-dominating currencies. That is also a very recent phenomena. I think, driven by the industrial revolution, and a combination of the Petrodollar and scale economics and manufacturing. So, so that >> Yeah, and overwhelmingly here, at this event, people feel like security tokens, as an asset class, are going to vastly overtake utility tokens. >> You know, actually, securities are a whole, I mean regular securities, (laughing) that's an interesting subject altogether. Right, okay, so there was a time, in my lifetime, when I was a securities analyst at Alex Brown in the '80s, and in that period of time, everything traded at ten times earnings, right? So you had a barometer for, a stock should be valued at this, because is should have a PE of actual real earnings. >> Dave Vellante: Independent of its growth or anything else, right? >> Yes, and if it grew, you had a PEG ratio, so you'd have a little bit higher growth, and so a little higher PE, but what's happened to securities over time, of that ilk, okay, you had to get these companies profitable to get them public in that era, and then over time the sort of like network effects have come in, and communities of interest have formed around companies. So, and the structure of securities has moved from give me something with earnings multiply it by a number to get the value, to give me a share of something that has no voting rights and no earnings. Does that sound like a token? That's Snapchat, right? (laughing) >> So you literally have, you know, Google, Facebook, all these companies now issue shares that don't have the characteristics of equity shares. They don't vote. What are they now, right? So tokenization is sort of a natural extension of that. >> Dave Vellante: Do you see that as a >> They don't have dividends either >> You see that as a fundamental shift in the value equation, the perceived value equation? Both? Is it sustainable? >> I think it's basically, so, you know, I go back and forth on this, because is it a trend line or is it a return in the past? Right? So what is a confederate dollar that was in Abraham Lincoln's pocket? It's a belief. So what is a share of Snapchat? It's a belief. It doesn't have earnings >> John Furrier: And a token is a belief. >> Right. >> But the trend is securing something, right? So the trend we're seeing is, obviously the ruling, first of all the ruling in Switzerland was interesting. You now have a trading so an asset, so security, asset, and then trading. So they kind of went a little bit deeper, which I think is helpful. >> Yeah. >> For the community. But what are they securing? So the trend, as we see, is percentage of revenue, non dilutive and equity in the classic sense, so kind of a token. And then some sort of either buyback options, people are doing things like that. Do you see patterns like that? What are you seeing for? >> Well. >> I mean a security token makes sense. It's all credited. The paperwork's known. >> Yeah, so, you know, it feels like, so some people refer to sort of Bitcoin as digital gold, you know, and in that sense, like gold is a commodity but is the root of securities, you know, whether it's gold ETF's or something, because you perceive a limited supply, and you perceive a storage of value, so that is where I think Bitcoin sits. But then I think this whole other category of utility tokens, that may be considered security tokens by definition of law, that resembles the petrodollar. And as we were talking about earlier, you know gold used to represent or a dollar used to represent a share of gold, but it didn't anymore. So what was underpinning it? It was basically, in my opinion, the ability for that token to have utility as an instrument to purchase oil for your energy security. And so, I think that's kind of where the utility tokens are today. >> You're a leader in the industry, and you're well-known. Communities need to thrive. And factions form, curriencies form, and can be very productive, and also can be counterproductive. >> Yeah. >> So what is the unwritten rules that you guys are putting forth. Are people meeting? Are you talking? And sometimes, as people make money, which a lot of people are making a lot of money right now. I mean, for some people, it's the first time. Didn't have money, make money. You know, egos kind of come in. So all of these are normal things. But again, this is a societal community dynamic, >> Yes. >> But super important. Institutional investors are coming in. >> Right. >> Big money. This isn't Burning Man. This isn't. Burning Man's cool, but you can't model this industry after Burning Man. Maybe you could. I don't know. What is your take? >> Well, you know, it's, I think that the guiding principle really needs to be looking out for the greater good, because I think that is the issue that everyone is trying to solve for. And it's not just endemic to Bitcoin and Blockchain. It's a societal issue that's been with us since the creation of civilization. And I don't know how to solve for that, but I think you need people to stand up and just make sure that people are thinking about that all the time. You know, and I think, over my career, I think I started as kind of like a geek hacker, sitting in the back of the room, working on little microchips and building stuff, and I still do that on weekends sometimes, but, you know, for whatever reason, I've been thrust into this role now where I do have a set of communities of interest that started actually around kiteboarding, but it became sort of a larger community around entrepreneurship. And we've actually, I have a 501(c)(3) that supports ocean causes and entrepreneurial things, and it's called ACTAI Global, and we have a couple value statements. We actually, we're codifying it, so we actually have a little pin, you know the ACTAI stands for Athletes, Conservationists, Technologists, Artists and Innovators, and all of us collectively, we combine our energy to work on causes. Some of the things that we support are around ocean conservation and the preservation of ecosystems, but we also work on a lot of other entrepreneurial efforts to help each other. But the thing that I've realized with our group is we've been very productive as a community, and you see a lot of companies that are born in our community, funded in our community, like, you know, whether it's Canva or Zoom, or any number of projects that turn into community-based companies because the group of people, they think and they stand for something greater than themselves. So that's kind of one principle. It's sort of like, how do you, how do you place your values as something to support the greater community, and that's something that I think, if everybody would just think about that a little bit, and stand for something greater than themselves, the world would be a better place. And on that note, the second ethos that we operate to is that we strive to leave every person or place we touch better than before we touched it. So when you see us like kiting at a beach, you'll see us picking up garbage, too. You know? We don't go someplace without trying to improve it a little bit. And I think we help each other on the companies, too. And I think the last thing that people really should try to do, everybody in this world of technology, has a little bit of a superpower, whatever that is. You know, they wouldn't be doing the things that they're doing if they weren't totally insanely focused on a piece of technology. They know something that other people don't. And if everybody would just try a little bit to use the powers the universe has granted them, to empower others, to unlock other people, the world would be a better place. So I think, you know, I think all of these factions, if we could just get people to stand for something greater than themselves, work to make people and places better off than before they touched them, and empower other people, I think we'll have some great outcomes. >> You know, empathy, empathy is a wonderful thing. And also you mentioned, know your neighbor. You know, that's a big thing. We're doing our part here in theCUBE, bringing our mission content. Bill, been great to have you on. And we'll get that clip out on the network about your mission. Great stuff. >> Thank you, thanks. >> And great to see you >> It's an awesome philosophy. >> be successful, you're a great leader. People look up to you, and certainly we're glad to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. Hey, more live coverage after this short break here on theCUBE in the Bahamas for crypto currency, token economics, POLYCON18. We'll be back with more after this short break.

(uptempo techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Washington, D.C, it's CUBE Conversations with John Furrier. >> Hello there and welcome to this special CUBE Conversations here in Washington, D.C. We're getting all the stories, we're at the Halcyon House here with Kate Goodall who is the Co-Founder and CEO of Halcyon for a CUBE Conversation. Thanks for joining me today. >> My pleasure. >> So talk about Halcyon and your mission. You're doing something really important here in societal entrepreneurship. It's a non-profit, it's a really interesting mission. You're having an impact. Talk about what you guys are doing. >> Yeah, we believe in the power of human creativity and the power of compassion to change the world for the better. And by that I mean that we take some incredible change makers with really bold ideas about how they can affect societal change through business and art, and we give them a number of supports including a free place to live in this very expensive city, a fantastic mentor, an office, a community around them, money, and we don't take equity in their ventures. >> And this house that we're here is a mansion in Washington, D.C. Talk about the story about this house and this residence. >> Yeah, it's got very revolutionary roots. It was built by Benjamin Stoddert who was the first Secretary of the Navy during the Revolutionary War. And from then it exchanged hands several times. One of them was a relative of Mark Twain. And he is responsible for most of its 30,000 square feet. And then lastly, it was in the hands of the Dreyfus family before it was bought by Dr. Kuno who is my co-founder and the chair of Halcyon. >> And the Halcyon mission, you guys have a unique formula. Talk about how the fellowships, how do you guys select the ventures, what's the program? They live here. >> Yeah. >> It's a residence. >> Yeah. >> So it's interesting. >> Yeah, we give them three things, everything thing breaks down into three things. Space, community, and access. We believe that if you give people not only physical space, which is important because we have to remember that not everyone has a parents' basement they can live in and friends and family they can go get money from. So it democratizes the playing field to just be able to select people with the best ideas and the most talent and not the best drive. But also head space. What does it mean when you give someone with a brilliant idea five months to just work on their idea? Then community is very, very important. There's a lot of atrocious analogies for entrepreneurship. People compare it to staring into the abyss or chewing glass or... It creates a lot of emotions, lots of ups and downs. So having a built in community, which we have here is very important. Then lastly access, and by that I mean there are not only investors, but these days governments, philanthropists, others that are seeking solutions to some of these very hairy 21st century problems. They want access to these ideas. And if we do our job correctly, we're creating a bridge for these entrepreneurs to those people as well. >> Yeah entrepreneurship certainly is hard. And it's even harder when you're trying to crack the code on societal problems. >> Kate: Yes. >> And so this kind of brings up an interesting trend that we've been seeing emerging really rapidly in the past few years with cloud computing and other... Big data, internet of things technologies on a global scale, is the societal entrepreneurship model where you're accelerating opening up new ways to democratize, crowd source, fund, and change the game and reimagine philanthropy, policy, education, diversity, all in one. >> Yeah. >> You guys are kind of doing that here. It really is a ground zero here in Washington, D.C because of the access and the ecosystem of governments and everything's here. So you're seeing this building up in Washington, D.C. Talk about this new force, this new driving force of change called societal entrepreneurship. >> Yeah so it's, we believe it's definitely one way to really change the game. It's a way to use business principles to attack some of these enormous social problems. Many would argue that philanthropy and perhaps government have failed at some of this recently. Philanthropy was originally designed to solve problems, not to become a charity machine. And certainly, the government finds it hard to do some of those things today as well. And so figuring out how to really attack some of these enormous, hairy 21st century problems using these business principles so that their solutions can also be scaled effectively is absolutely what we're trying to approach. >> It's interesting, you see the old guard, the old ways of doing things, policy, people just checking boxes, philanthropy a big donor kind of model. And then now with cloud computing, new things are emerging. In your mind, what's changed the most now from just even 5, 10 years ago? What's the big difference in today's culture and today's environment in the world and Washington, D.C? >> Oh my gosh, so many things I could talk about. One of the reasons I think that social enterprise really came into being, partially is because there was recession and millennials didn't have jobs. So they had to create them and they created them in a new model. They created them in a way that gave them satisfaction beyond just getting a paycheck. The Jobs Act gave foundations the ability to invest in for profits and gave us crowd sourcing and crowd funding. And these things have really made some of this cross sectoral pollenization possible for the first time. I think people genuinely are frustrated that this amazing pace of change and Internet of Things and all of this stuff still hasn't solved some of these big problems. So there's so many forces at play. And I think one thing that I'll also point to because as I explained to you, I'm an archeologist and historian by training, and if you look over the course of human history, any time when you've had rapid change in technologies or you've had vast inequalities in terms of wealth, you end up with a depression or a war, or both. And I really believe that the power of social entrepreneurship can, for once, maybe let the gas out of the balloon a little bit more gently, and I think that's something really great to be optimistic about. >> How do you see that happening? I mean, we're a connected society now. >> Yeah. >> We have our mobile devices. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We have our things on our body, Internet of Things. It's all there, is that how you see it? How do you see the relief coming so we don't have a war or a depression? >> Yeah, I think that's the point, we have tremendous power now, right? To just in our hands, to be able solve some of these problems. Human ingenuity is a great thing. I think creativity and compassion are going to be the things that machines replicate last. And so we support that wholeheartedly. And I think maybe we can talk about some examples of some of our ventures, right, and what they're doing because I think that's the best way to paint. What does this mean, what is it? One of our current fellows, Ryan Soscia has created JDoe which is a way to anonymously unite victims of sexual assaults so that they can take legal action. It has a business model, but it's been proven that victims of assault are much more effective when they go as a group instead of alone. So it's a really brilliant way to use technology. Another one from our past cohort, Brandon Anderson is using a chat bot, Raheem AI to collect better data on policing. And then is working with police departments to use that data so that they can have better community relations. So these are both very relevant and timely issues that we're approaching in a non-partisan way using technology to solve. One more I'll give in our current cohort. Pilleve, which is a company that's thinking about the Internet of Things and how it can solve for the opiate crisis. They've created a pill bottle that connects to your phone or your family's phone and can give data and control over medication so that you can really start to attack addiction. >> Kate, talk about the power of we capital, what you've been doing with women's networking in Washington DC. >> Yeah. >> Because it's not just the women in tech inclusion issue, there's a lot of disparity we've been covering certainly at Silicon Angle, but there's really a lot of powerful women and talented folks, whether it's creative or on the business side or technical side, where the societal problems, these are products that are used by the entire population and so there's an effort to have more women involved in not just designing products, but actually being part of these new re-imagined solutions and technologies. >> Yeah. >> How important do you see that here, and what are some of the hurdles and successes that you've had here? >> I agree with that analysis completely. And I'm biased, but I think that Washington is an amazing city for some incredibly smart women. And when we created Halcyon, we created a committee that was diverse and reflective of the diversity we wanted to see how cohorts. So diverse by any factor. Age, gender, race, sexual orientation and what's that resulted in happily is a housing community that has 52% of our ventures founded or co-founded by women, and 58% of our ventures founded by a person of color. But then when we looked around, the investor base didn't exactly reflect our fellows. So we started to think about how we could engender and cultivate investors that were also diverse. And one of the ways to do that was to create a group of women in D.C. that wanted to fund social impact, leaning women led ventures, and it's called the WE Capital. It's led by Dr. Kuno, who is my co-founder and chair at Halcyon, and Sheila Johnson who was one of the founders of BET and has now founded Salamander Resorts. And there's 13 other remarkable women in that contingent and they're all paying it back. But and a very smart way that gets them market rate returns. >> This is interesting, the community paying forward has been the ethos of very robust and successful communities Silicon Valley here in Washington, D.C. How do you scale that? How do you go global with this? Because now you have a global model. Silicon Valley D.C. and all around world where you now have different communities coming together, all the same mission potentially. How do you blend it all in? How do you take that to the next level? >> That's a good question. We're gradually building what I call a kind Army. Just this amazing community that has ripple effects. We don't feel that we have to own or control this in anyway. Just over 3 1/2 years, we've had 55 ventures come through here. They've raised nearly $40 million dollars. Impacted half a million people around the world in a positive way. They've created nearly 500 jobs. You start to see the exponential growth even just as we sit here in this building. But I do think that's a long way to go in terms of people understanding this social societal entrepreneurship. People have different definitions for it and it's a long way to go in term terms of government and philanthropy really being able to understand it. Because in some ways as I mentioned, they lost touch with who their customers are. >> Okay and I've always been saying in Silicon Valley and on my Facebook page and also on theCube that SiliconValley doesn't get D.C. They try to come in waves around. You don't get it and they're impatient, I would say if I categorize. They get D.C. but I don't think they have the patience for it. It's a new culture here. Also the pace of change is accelerating in D.C. but it's a formula for D.C. What is the secret to be successful in Washington, D.C if you're a tech entrepreneur or investor or someone from Silicon Valley or not from here? >> We do get the advantage of being able to see who does that well and who doesn't. And tech is obviously leading ahead of policy. Policy is trailing tech and I think that can understandably make policymakers nervous. They've got a lot of understanding to do to be able to make some policy decisions. And these tech solutions are very complicated so the people in tech that I see being successful around policy of those that will take the time to really sit down and pick through a problem with policy maker and help them to understand it. Policy makers are actually very smart but they're dealing with a lot. >> John: So education. >> Education, education absolutely. You can't come in here >> Patience. >> And be impatient that they're not getting it. But I think that's going to essential. We've got to figure out how to talk each other and how to talk across different languages, different domain, different sectors and creates some better intersectionality. >> So what's next for Halcyon? What's the vision? What's your vision of how this will go forward? Obviously you've got a great model, batches coming through cohorts, and you have demo days here. I noticed your set up downstairs for a demo day so it's very robust, classic incubator, accelerator model with the residences leading it there. What's next? Where do you go from here? >> We don't take equity in any of our ventures but we are thinking about creating a fund, because so many of our ventures are performing exceptionally well. And we're actually going to be launching a festival that really takes the power of creativity and compassion, and art and technology here in D.C. and that will be in June. And we're hoping it that way, we can reach a wide audience, and that's going to be very exciting. The long term vision really is how can we harness the power of compassionate and creativity to solve 21st century problems, and how can we do that at scale? >> The classic disruption model is gate keepers start being disrupted by the new guard as Andy Jassy would say in Amazon. These a new creative as well. I did a panel at Sundance a few weeks ago where we talked about this creative where democratization is happening at artist level, and the government maker level. And that seems to be happening across all industries. A new creative is developing. What's your view of the digital impact? Because artistry can be sculptures and painting and whatnot to classic artistry or film making but now tech's involved, digital. >> Yeah. >> It's coming together. Is the vision how you see art and science coming together? >> Yeah, artists are fantastic disrupters. Sometimes they don't even need to paint a picture. They just use their ability as an artist to do things other people can't. And that's why they're awfully fun to be round. I think that you're absolutely right. I point to Dee Rees as an great example, who didn't get her funding for her film Mudbound through the the Hollywood machine, instead she went straight to Netflix and now she's getting an Oscar. That's a new way of doing things. We have one of our fellows, DeShuna who created kweliTV which is Netflix for the African diaspora because Netflix just doesn't have the kind of black filmmaking that she wants to see. So yeah I absolutely see people using digital to do different kinds of disrupting including on the outside of things. We have another program, the Arts Lab. Very similar to this but working with excellent artists who are thinking about social justice. One of the artist, Georgia Os-acs is doing a project called Two Future Women. And she's collecting letters that women are writing to other women 19 years from now. They're being archived by the museums in D.C. and will be displayed on the eve of the Women's March. Wouldn't it be great to know what the suffragette were thinking? And that all requires technology to be able to successfully collect those, disseminate them, archive them et cetera. >> So New channels to the market place breaking down the barriers for the gate keeper seems to be the trend. How is that happening in your world, in D.C and in philanthropy? You're now creating a new model of entrepreneurship. >> Yes, yes. >> Not just philanthropy, hey nice job or policy check box, it's real change. >> And arguably a new model for philanthropy because very rarely is philanthropy so immersive where we're literally taking these people and we're in the living with them for five months, and giving them all of these supports. And I think it's also a new model and that it's risk taking. It's not a safe and secured, metric based, proven solutions. It's some of these centers are going to fail and I think that that's okay. That's just testing and trying and finding the best and moving forward. I was going to make another point. >> You guys are changing the world obviously, I made a comment on Facebook, we're saving the world at the same time because you mentioned you can actually get ahead of some of these trends with this gap. Whether it's inequity, inequality or however these gaps are causing even war or depression as history points out. Now you have an opportunity to use, not just diagnostic capability but predictive and prescriptive mechanisms. What are some of those things that someone could see and connect the dots around an example of something that's prescriptive. Say wait, wow, time out. We've got something going on over there as a problem space we can solve with a solution. What are some examples that you see playing out where this model could work? >> I'm not sure I quite understand the question. >> If you had the ability to use technology to solve some societal problems, what are some examples that you're seeing here in your incubator that are pointing to this new trend? >> Yeah, I think that our fellows are fantastic examples of that. Many of them are tech enabled whether or not they're using apps or the cloud or just a new actual technology product. One of our fellows is using, he's created a new product that disrupts the vestibular system so that you don't feel motion sickness. Now this is actually a product that is obviously very valuable for just everyday people, who are going to be in driver-less cars trying to do their work. But it turns out very useful for the military and very useful for people who are trying to create virtual reality. 40% of people can not put a virtual reality headset on and not feel nauseous. So I do think that it is tech's job to solve some of the problems that we haven't been able to solve yet. In many ways, the internet and the Internet of Things is our biggest leap forward since fire. Now how are we going to use it to create the disruption that fire did? Fire allowed us to eat more things, grow bigger then start to farm and and I think that we haven't even hit the cusp of what the internet can do yet. It can do way more things and deliver products to our doorsteps. >> Next up at the wheel, you get fired-- >> Right, what's is the tech wheel? I think it's going to be really-- >> Personal question for you, what is the big learnings that you've had over the past few years? (mumbles) say well I didn't expect that to happen or wow, that was super awesome or a failure or a success? What was your big learnings that you've come out-- >> Oh my gosh, do you have an hour? We've learnt how not to do and how to do mentorship very well. You can't take mentorship lightly. This is human chemistry we're talking about and even if you think you've got the perfect match on paper, it may not work. We have certainly learned a lot about how it is really important to have investors that reflect entrepreneurs because to your very point, that work is going to take everyone to create technologies that work for everyone. It also creates and builds even investors who look like everyone because otherwise there is an inherent bias. Really good people have inherent bias and that needs to be solved for. Because I straddle both art and entrepreneurship in my role. These some really interesting things that I've noticed in terms of how entrepreneurs see the world as infinite resource and artist see it as very finite. And how some of our systemic problems are reflected almost identically in both fields. This is an interesting statistic. 5% of venture capital goes to women, we know that and 1% to African Americans, 0.01% to Black women. In the museum world, in museums in the western hemisphere, 5% of their art collection is women artists, 1% is African American artists. That's not a coincidence, that's a clear picture of how power structures have evolved to make certain types of decisions about who should get capital, who is worth collecting, and we're definitely solving for that. >> And certainly having a lens on that and exposing that-- >> Kate: Absolutely. >> Is the way to-- >> It's very important. >> Talk about artistry, one of the things we've been talking about in the software and in the tech business is the role of artistry and craft. And that we see that swinging back with cloud computing. I would say to the craft out a software development but you're seeing these integrated solutions where craftsmanship and art are coming together. We're seeing examples, certainly in Asia, in China we're seeing examples where the development world, the technical world has come together with artistry world to create these new solutions. So you've got creative and you've got technical coming together. That's what you're doing. >> Yeah, no absolutely. >> What's the success formula? Is there one? Is it right brain, left brain, what's the-- >> I don't know. We've just got this bubbly caldron of creativity and we're pulling stuff out of it as we go, but I think it's important for us not to forget about art. Art has been at the forefront of every social change, every movement. If it does its job, it's of the moment and it tells us a lot about ourselves. But there's also that important thing about art with technology, and with consumer products. The reason that the iPhone was so successful is because it's a thing of beauty, and everyone is in awe of it. So design is critical, it's absolutely critical when you're thinking about scale or consumer products or tech that works. >> And having a good taste for a good art is also a skill. >> Yeah. >> Knowing what's beautiful. >> Of course. >> Tech guys love to have that skill. >> You could argue that that's getting democratized and disrupted as well. >> Kate, thanks so much for spending some time here. >> My pleasure, this is fun. >> Cube Conversation, Kate Goodall, co-founder and CEO of Halcyon here in Washington, D.C. Changing the world, societal entrepreneurship. A lot of great actions. This is theCube coverage. Thanks for watching. (uptempo techno music)

>> [Announcer] Live from Berlin, Germany, It's The Cube, covering NetApp Insight 2017, brought to you by NetApp. >> We are wrapping up a day of coverage at NetApp Insight on The Cube. I'm Rebecca Knight, along with My cohost, Peter Burris. So, we've had a lot of great interviews here today. We've heard from NetApp executives, customers, partners about this company's transformation, and about what it's doing now to help other companies have a similar transformation. What have been some of your impressions of where NetApp is right now, and what it's saying? >> I think it starts with the observation that NetApp realized a number of years ago that if it was just going to be a commodity storage company, it was gonna have a hard time, and so NetApp itself went through a digital transformation to try to improve its understanding of how customers really engaged with it, how it could improve its operational profile's financial footprint, and the result of that was a company that, first off, was more competitive, but also that had learned something about digital transformation, and realized the relationship between the products that they were selling, the services that they were providing, the ecosystem they had that they could tap, been working with customers, and said, what is we took this knowledge, applied it to those things, what would we end up with? And so we now have a company that is still talking about products, but very much it's also talking about what businesses could do in day to day differently to effect the type of transformation that NetApp itself has been going through, and it's a compelling story. >> And you're describing this introspection that the company did, as you said, if we can't survive with our old business model, what can we do differently, and now eating it's own dog food, but then telling other companies about its story, and how its made changes. I mean, do you think NetApp is where it should be today? Are you pleased with the progress you've seen? >> Well that's one of the great challenges in the tech industry today, is nobody's quite sure where they should be. >> [Rebecca] There are no benchmarks. >> Because nobody's sure what's going on underneath them. So many years ago, in response to a reporter's questions about IBM, they said, well what do you think? Is IBM going to be successful at moving the aircraft, turning the aircraft carrier? And I said, you don't get it. IBM's problem is not that they're trying to turn the aircraft carrier, it's that they're trying to rotate the ocean, so that they could go straight, and everybody else's position would change, and that's a lot of what's happening in the technology industry today, as the people are turning, the ocean's being rotated, and there are a couple of companies, like AWS, that seem to have their fingerprint, or their finger on some of those changes. I'm not sure NetApp has that kind of a presence in the industry, but what is clear is that the direction that NetApp has taken is generating improved financial results, a lot better customer satisfaction, and it's putting them into position to play in the next round, so to speak, of competition in this industry, and in an industry that's changing this fast, that, all by itself, is a pretty good position to be in. >> Well, you know, and you're talking about the changing industry, and then also the changing employment needs that this company has in terms of getting people in their workforce who really understand, not just that data in an asset, which is what we keep hearing today, too, but really understanding how to capture the data, tease out the right insights from the data, and then deploy a strategy based on those insights that actually will create value to the business, whether that's acquiring new customers, or saving money, or earning new lines of business, too. >> Well, for example, we had a great conversation with Sheila Fitzpatrick about GDPR, this phenomenal conversation. Sheila is in charge of privacy at NetApp, and the decision that she drove was to not just to GDPR, NetApp have to GDPR here in Europe, but to GDPR across the entire company. Now two years ago, I don't know that a NetApp person would have come onto The Cube and talked about GDPR, but that is a problem, that is a challenge that every business is facing, and bringing somebody on that has made some really consequential decisions for a company like NetApp to be able to say, here's how other businesses need to think about GDPR, think about data privacy, is a clear example of NetApp trying to establish itself as a thought leader about data, and not just a thought leader about commodity storage. So I think there's a lot of changes that NetApp's gonna go through. They still are talking about on tap, they still are talking about HCI, they're talking about all the various flash products that they have, so that's still part of their conversation, but increasingly they're positioning those products, not in terms of price performance, but in terms of applications to the business based on the practical realities of data. >> And I also think we've heard a number of executives talk about NetApp having a more consultative relationship with its clients and partners, and really learning from them, how they're doing things, and then sharing the learnings at events like NetApp Insight, here, and just really on the ground more, working in partnership with these companies, too. >> Data is a physical thing, and I think a lot of people forget that. A lot of people just look at data and say, oh it's this ephemeral thing, it's out there, and I don't much have to worry about it, but physics is an issue when you're working with data. Adam Steltzner, Dr. Adam, the gentleman from NASA, he talked about the role that data science is playing in NASA Mars exploration, talked about the need to worry about sparse data, because they have dial up speeds to send data back from a place like Mars. They're working on problems, but when you start thinking in those terms, the physical limitations, the physical realities, the physical constraints of data become very real. GDPR is not a physical constraint, but it's a legal constraint, and it might as well be physics. If a company does something, we heard, for example, that there are companies out there, based on their practices and how they were hacked, would have found themselves facing $160 billion liability. >> [Rebecca] Yeah. >> Now that may not be physics, you know, I can only move so much data back from Mars, but that is a very real legal constraint that would have put those companies out of business if GDPR governance rules had been in place. So what's happening today is companies, or enterprises are looking to work with people who understand the very physical, practical, legal, and intellectual property realities of data, and if NetApp is capable of demonstrating that, and showing how you could turn that into applications, and into infrastructure that works for the business, then that is a great partner for any enterprise. >> Well do you think that other companies get it? I mean, the sense of where we are today? You use this example of GDPR, and how it really could have sent companies out of business if those rules had been in place, and they had been hacked, or suffered some huge data breach. Do you think that NetApp is setting itself up as the thought leader, and in many ways is the thought leader? Are there companies on the same level? >> No, they're not, and certainly there are a lot of tech companies that are moving in that direction, and that they're comparable with NetApp, and working both close with NetApp, and in opposition to NetApp, at least competitively, but the reality is that most enterprises are, how best to put this? Well, what I like to say is William Gibson, the famous author who coined the term cyberspace, for example, once said, the future's here, it's just evenly distributed. So there are pockets of individuals in every company who are very cognizant of these challenges, the physical realities of data, what it means, what role data actually plays, what does it mean to actually call data an asset? What's the implications on the business of looking at data as a asset? That's in place in pockets, but it's not something that's broadly diffused within most businesses, certainly not our client base, not the Wikibon angle client base, is certainly not broadly aware of some of these challenges. A lot of things have to happen over the course of the next few years for executives, and rank and file folks to comprehend the characteristics, or the nature of these changes, start to internalize, start to act in concert with the possibilities of data, as opposed to in opposition to the impacts of data. >> And those are the people who, we had guests on today just talked about the data resisters, because there are those in companies, maybe they're just an individual in a company, but that can have a real impact on the company's strategy of moving forward, deploying its data smartly. >> Yeah, absolutely, and we also had the gentleman from The Economist who made the observation that concerns about artificial intelligence impacts employment might be a little overblown. >> [Rebecca] Right, right. >> So a lot of those data resisters might be sitting there asking the question, what will be the impact of additional data on my job? And it's a reasonable question to ask, because if your business, we also talked about physicians. A radiologist, for example, someone who looks at x-rays has historically not been a patient facing person. They would sit in the back and look at the x-rays, they would write up the results, and they would give them to the clinician, who would actually talk to the patient. I, not too long ago, saw this interesting television ad where radiologists presented themselves as being close to the patient. Why? Because radiology is one of those disciplines in medicine that's likely to be strongly impacted by AI, because AI can find those patterns better than, often, a physician can. Now the clinician may be a little less effected by AI, because the patient is a human being that needs to have their hand held. >> [Rebecca] And their life is on the line. >> Their life is on the line. The healing and treatment is about whether or not the person is able to step up and heal themselves. >> [Rebecca] Right. >> So there's going to be this kind of interesting observation over the next few years. Folks that work with other people will use data to inform. Folks that work with machines, folks that don't work with other people, are likely to find that other machines end up being really, really good at their job. >> [Rebecca] Right. >> Because of the speeds of data, at the compactness of data, human beings just cannot respond to data as fast as a machine, but machines still cannot respond to people as well as people can. >> And they don't have empathy. >> And they don't have empathy, so if I were to make a prediction, I would say that, in the future, if your job is more tied to using machines, yeah, you got a concern, but if your job is tied to working with people, your job is gonna be that much more important, and increasingly, the people that are working with machines are gonna have to find jobs that have them work with other people. >> Right, right. Well it's been a great day. It's fun to work with you. This is our first time together on The Cube. It was a great day. >> Well The Cube is a blast. >> The Cube is a blast. It's a constant party. I'm Rebecca Knight for Peter Burris, this has been NetApp Insight 2017 in Berlin. We will see you next time.

(light adventurous music) >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE Studios here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. This is our CUBE Conversation Thought Leader Thursday and I'm here with Val Bercovici, who's the founder and CEO of a new startup called PencilDATA. Val, CUBE alumni, been on many times with NetApp and then a variety of other great startups, but now you're doing your own thing around cryptocurrency, blockchain, enterprise-like technical infrastructure. You've been a CTO, now entrepreneur, founder and CEO of PencilDATA. Congratulations, you're on the crypto wave, this wave is coming. >> I believe it's here. >> It's here. >> Timing couldn't be better. >> So, I interviewed Dr. Jian Wang who's the chairman of Alibaba's technology steering committee, also the founder of Alibaba Cloud, just recently in China. Presented by Intel, plug for Intel there, thanks Intel for supporting theCUBE. He said to me, and I put the clip out on Twitter, natively on the video clip, which was, I asked him about blockchain, you know China, they blocked the ICOs, he said, "Blockchain is fundamental, part of the Internet. "It's as fundamental as TCP/IP was." This is the nuance that is attracting a lot of tier one entrepreneurs. Obviously the money side is hyped up beyond all recognition right now. As Don Klein on our team was saying, "It's melting up in terms of hype." But this really speaks to the transformation of the web, and the Internet now, the web is the Internet, from distributed and decentralized. This is a big sea change. Kind of building on the fundamentals of the internet, formerly called the information superhighway, before the web came along, but the web was designed to withstand nuclear disaster, be resilient, be decentralized. >> It reminds me of Back to the Future in many, many ways, because if you're as old as we are, you remember those DARPA origins of the Internet and exactly that decentralized nature, and we've gone away from that, right? As Tim Berners-Lee brought on the HTTP protocol, we've had web protocols, and as major, the FANG vendors have really dominated their usage of that existing layer of technology we've gone away, we've gone to a very, very centralized approach, which as we're seeing with the tech hearings this week, carries all sorts of risks, it's not just business and legal and political. >> And you're referring to the senate hearings, where Facebook, Google, or Alphabet, and Twitter were in front of the senate committee, you're going to tell them about the Russians, the Russian political thing, but they're bringing up the issue of the role of these mega platforms that have all this data and the problem is that this is not what the users bargained for. I mean, I use Facebook as a free app, I love Facebook, Facebook, we love you, WhatsApp here and there, and Instagram, but you know, my bargain was simple. I'll use your free app and I'll let you use some of my data but now you're making billions, $10 billion quarter, fake news has infiltrated the country, I have a poor user experience every day, it's getting worse and worse, a lot of hate and division. This is not what I bargained for. >> Val: Exactly. >> So the world's kind of revolting against these mega-siloed platforms. >> That's the risk of having such centralized control of the technology. If you remember in the old days when Microsoft's dominance was rising, all you had to do was target Windows as a virus platform and you're able to impact thousands of businesses, even in the early Internet days, within hours. And it's the same thing happening right now, there's a weaponization of these social media platforms and Google's search engine technology and so forth. It's the same side effect now, the centralization of that control is the problem. One of the reasons I love the blockstack technology, and blockchain in general is the ability to decentralize these things right now, and the most passionate thing I care about nowadays is being driven out of Europe, where they have a lot more maturity in terms of handling these new scenarios. >> You mean the tech being driven out of Europe. >> The laws. >> The laws, okay. >> Being driven out of Europe. >> Be specific, we'd like an example. >> The major deadline that's coming up in May 25th of 2018 is GDPR, General Data Protection Regulation, where European citizens now in any company, American or otherwise, catering to European citizens, has to respond to things like the right to be forgotten request. You've got 24 hours, as a global corporation with European operations, to respond to European citizens', EU citizens', right to be forgotten request, where all the personally identifiable information, the PII, has to be removed and an audit trail, proving it's been removed, has to be gone from two, three hundred internal systems within 24 hours. And this has teeth by the way, it's not like the $2.7 billion fine that Google just flipped away casually, this has up to 4% of your global profits per incident where you don't meet that requirement. >> Well you bring up a good point, the GDPR is a good one, it has teeth and it's kind of in the weeds with the folks who might not know that regulation, but really it's about the privacy and the rights of the individual. But coming back to Facebook, to connect another dot is, what we're seeing with Facebook, Twitter, and Alphabet with the senate hearings is, and this is why the industry and the media is crumbling, publications are dying, the newspapers, the media's changing, is because knowing your customer is a really important thing. The people who want to be served need to have a closed loop with the publication, and these platforms are bogarting all the data, and so the right of the customer, the users are suffering, and that's what people are generally talking about. You know, personally, a guy can rent a truck and go mow people down in Manhattan, we should know who these people are, like the neighbors, so I think there's going to be a trend towards knowing who your neighbor is, knowing who the customers are, at a level that's not scary privacy violation, but we're going to know who the crazies are, we're going to know what's going on and then that's kind of out there, that's kind of my general feeling. But now, getting back to the impact. GDPR, these big mega platforms where the users are at the center of the value proposition, really comes down to the shift in user expectations around a decentralized Internet. That means agile goes to a whole other level. If I'm a user and I say, "Hey Facebook, "delete my digital exhaust or digital footprints "from Facebook over the past 10 years." I mean, that's hard to do. >> That's hard for them. >> That's not, technically is a really serious problem. >> And it's actually not just a technology challenge, I always love to go back to Conway's Law in these discussions, the org chart, you know, how information, infrastructure is budgeted for, and managed through various different departments within any large enterprise, data-savvy or not, is a challenge, as is coordinating these efforts, actually going beyond the talking phase, towards implementing a master data model. Those are the main challenges right now, and it's a movement that I believe now has political strength to actually migrate across the pond. Over here as well there's a groundswell movement called Digital Sovereignty as a response to GDPR in Europe, where people are realizing that they have the right to be sovereign over their data, their digital exhaust, their digital footprints online and that's a two-way street. You want and demand control over your data, but on the other hand your identity, which you control, has to be authentic as opposed to a fake identity, and your reputation has to be out there as well. >> These signals and these trends you were just referring to, to me are just like little tremors of the tectonic plates that are going to be changing, because if you look at the major shift in technology, let's take blockchain for instance, and look at the impact of a decentralized internet, now global, immutability with the ability now for more agile capability and not just permanent, "I want to erase things" that you're talking about, but three, the younger generation, if we look at what the young kids are doing, I have four kids, my oldest is 22, it's a gaming culture, right? It's a gaming culture, they're online all the time. They're not old like us, my son's like, "Dad, Google Search is for old people." I mean, that's a general sentiment, over-categorizing, but a combination of the new user experience, this younger generation, entrepreneurs and users, and these tremors we're seeing in the marketplace, signaling that, "hey Facebook, you might be too big for your britches," or, "hey Twitter, you got a bot problem, "hey all you gamers using Twitch," this is now a signal, where is it leading to? And where does blockchain in particular impact it? Because this is kind of where everything's converging to. >> So what I'd like to say right now is, you've got Marc Andreessen's premise that software is eating the world. If you extend that, data is feeding it, blockchain is valuing it, and it's AI that's automating it. So in my mind, particularly in my experience earlier this year in the AI industry, you realize that AI today really boils down to machine learning, which in itself boils down to deep learning, which boils down to data, your access to data. Professor Andrew Wang did this at the recent O'Reilly conference up in the city, he got up and lectured as the keynote instead of sharing slides and his number one, two, and three advice to everyone in the audience was, get the right datasets to train your model. If you don't have that you don't have a differentiated business, and that's what inspired PencilDATA, is my encountering of the cold start AI problem where the IP's in a public domain, public datasets are ubiquitous which is fantastic for academics, but as a business you can't differentiate unless you have access to the right datasets to train your models more specifically. >> Okay, as the founder and CEO of PencilDATA, that's your new startup, let's get into some of the reasons why you're starting it. What problem are you attacking? Obviously a pencil, I can see pencil and you erase things, it's got data... >> The internet is no longer written in ink, that's the premise. Now with Pencil you can erase some data. >> Well blockchain is immutable, so this is conflicting in my mind. Help me kind of rationalize this. The benefit of blockchain is everything's permanent, if you're on-chain as they say. >> Exactly. >> If you're off-chain, you could do some things. Is that kind of what we're getting at? >> We're mixing the best of both. So our premise is that again, whether you're an organization or an individual, you need to have, to survive in a new digital economy, control over your data. The blockchain part of it is the visibility side. If you don't know who's doing what to your data, you're far less likely to share it. And once you know who's doing what to your data, in an immutable blockchain, with a detailed audit trail, with strong authentication, of literally who's doing what to your data, gives you that visibility. Then you do what modern asset managers do. You can't really value an asset until you fully control it. And our premise is, you can't control something until you can take it back. So the notion of PencilDATA is the ability to go on-chain for the visibility and off-chain for managing data in encrypted containers, and if a data owner or publisher doesn't like how the subscriber's consuming their data, they have the power to revoke all downloaded copies. >> So is this kind of like a shadow blockchain model? I'm trying to find a mental model because I remember the old days back, I was breaking into the industry in the late '80s, early '90s, WORM drives, write once, read many. And you write it once, it's a laser, it was optical drives at the time. Also, demilitarized zones in networking was an area where there was a safe harbor kind of thing, where people could play around. What metaphor, what mental model can people take away from some of the things that you're trying to solve? Is it like a DMZ, is it like a-- >> The implementation's a lot like a DMZ and the business challenge and opportunity is that there's a lot of tension between protecting data, because we have an epidemic of data breaches right now, I think you're foolish if you're assuming that you haven't been breached yet but you might be, because everyone has been breached, personally and organizationally, so we have to deal with the rising need to protect data more and more. But at the same time, you can't stay in business if you don't optimize the monetization of the data you have. And so PencilDATA walks that fine line between letting you do both, letting you not just protect infrastructure, that's a whole other industry that we're not involved in, but literally protect data at the data level. If you look up terms like crypto anchor you'll see some of the technologies we're taking advantage of there. But being able to monetize data by unlocking all that latent value of data hidden behind firewalls. If you use a physics analogy of potential and kinetic energy, applied to data behind firewalls, there's hundreds of billions of dollars of value in latent data basically, potential data hiding behind firewalls, and when you can safely share it, give the owners control they've never had before, then you expose the value of that data for the first time. >> Alright, so let's take us through where you're at. Obviously super exciting, you're leveraging the blockchain and you've got an ICO, initial coin offering coming up but you're not just doing that for the sake of doing, there's a lot of scams out there, you're taking a little bit more of a pragmatic approach. Give us the status because you're the founder and CEO, what's the makeup of the team, how big are you guys, what are you guys looking for, obviously you're looking for team members most likely. >> We're looking for developers obviously. >> Where in the process are you? >> We are a two-month-old company. We're at the seed stage. And we've actually assembled a world-class team. You hear that a lot, but I'm really, really proud of the team members we have right now. >> World-class, are they from around the world and then they have class? Define world-class. >> They're worldly, like myself, I travel a lot. (laughter) An example, my chief privacy officer is Sheila Fitzpatrick, she's a worldwide recognized leader in data privacy, she's on many, many privacy boards in the US and EU and so forth, and she now is traveling nonstop lecturing on GDPR, itself specifically. She's one of those recognized-- >> Should you see yourself as a solution for GDPR, because that's, again, it does have teeth, I'll just say that we've been reporting on this through Wikibon, our research team as well as theCUBE, it comes up all the time and there's heavy fines associated with it, so it's not like- >> GDPR is the perfect use case because on the one hand, we have that audit trail that proves what you're doing with data. On the other hand we have a kill switch, that revocable use clause for data where you can literally comply with GDPR in minutes or seconds, as opposed to take a full 24 hours to scour database and delete selected records. >> Alright, so what about the product? Give us an example of the product. Will you be, first of all that's right around the corner, it's next year. >> Val: Yeah. >> I think it was a March or April's timeframe, I don't have the exact date but it's pretty soon. >> Public beta before the end of this year, version 1.0 first of second quarter next year. >> For you guys, PencilDATA. >> Yes. >> Clients, are you working with anyone right now, you have a handful? >> So we've actually got really interesting distribution partnerships that we're not in a position to announce right now but the top-tier brand name enterprise cloud vendors, both on the SaaS and infrastructure and database side, they're lining up to work with us. Because we're enabling amazing use cases in healthcare and life sciences, the ability to selectively share patient data with insurers, with healthcare providers, clinical trials now to share more information through differential privacy and collectively have more data to be processed and analyzed. Use cases are just off the charts. >> Well you know we go to all the big data shows, we're horizontally scaled on the event site circuit, but this is the number one thing that comes up, I want to move from batch marketing, batch process, batch business to real-time business, speed is essential, but it's always been a conflict between, how do I enable data to move really fast and be available for applications but protecting the privacy. >> Yeah. >> Do you solve that problem, is that something that you see yourselves solving? >> We aren't necessarily innovating on speed, of data movement, it's going to be a SaaS service. >> So it's availability model. >> It's availability of data that's really never been shared before and I think that's the key here, is we know there's a lot of value locked up behind corporate firewalls. The irony is, we don't even have to sell this outside firewalls initially, when you go to any medium-to-large size enterprise that has more than one site or more than one department, Sales doesn't trust Marketing and vice versa, Engineering doesn't trust Customer Support, neither of the four of them trust each other, so we're actually going to enable more data shared within an enterprise at first. >> So that's a starting point for you guys. >> That's a starting point, that's the easiest low-hanging fruit sale we have. >> Well PencilDATA, it's great stuff, Val, congratulations on that startup. I mean, you've got a world-class management team, and this kind of brings up a point that I've been banging on theCUBE pretty much every time I go out I'll talk about blockchain and ICO because you know, theCUBE is a very decentralized audience and that's a value that we're looking at as well with blockchain. I've got to ask you the personal question, from your own personal perspective, experience, executive and CTO, why is blockchain attracting so many A players? Because you're seeing a lot of what I call A players, entrepreneurs, technical geeks, really jumping into this because they can see it, they can smell the opportunity, and also, it also attracts the scammers as well, but specifically, why are these A players coming in? Is it, what are you hearing, what's the general vibe, what's the anecdotal reason? >> So as you said earlier on, it's a fundamental evolution of the core internet as a technology, as fundamental as HTTP and web was on top of TCP/IP back 20 years ago, but it's got that rare combination of not only being a technical innovation that empowers new use cases on the web, on the internet, it's also got immediate, amazing business applications as a store of value initially, as an actual valuation of various business processes, or datasets in my case, as an ability to exchange that value so transparently, so, in such a friction-less liquid manner, those are some of the amazing innovations it brings to the table and I think the most important thing is not to think of this as being able to do digital transformation or faster analog, it's about completely reimagining the exchange of value, measurement of value, and new kinds of businesses that just weren't possible before. >> And at all points of the stack, not the low levels and at the application level, the business logic, and to the geek side, right? >> Absolutely. >> You agree. I mean, that's great and as you know, theCUBE is looking at a blockchain ICO on down the horizon so keep an eye out for that, CUBEcoins could be in everyone's future, so we're super excited like you. >> I'm looking forward to your presale, just like I'm looking forward to mine. (laughing) >> Well, we'll see. But the bottom line is that this is what the reality is, you know, reimagining the applications is what people are thinking and I think people should beware of the scams out there, and then final question I want to ask you is, obviously we're both in the community together, with our teams. Share your perspective on the ecosystem, because obviously decentralization will change the nature of traditional ecosystems. >> Very much so. >> What's your vision on how the ecosystem will evolve, and how big is it now relative to these early markets? >> We're actually starting to enter the middle innings of the cloud game, if you will, we're seeing a very good maturity, a good diversification of profitable earnings and outcomes for the major cloud players, so I think we've gone well down the cloud path so far. But the decentralized world is in its infancy. It's embryonic right now. And I've always been a proponent of the multi-cloud environment and a multi-cloud world, and decentralization fundamentally is based on and depends on a multi-cloud, not just multi-region, but multi-data-center-in-a-closet scenario as well, to be able to actually have a democratic model for determining where the value is, where the value isn't, blockchain node style. And that is incredibly exciting to me, because that really cements this rebalancing of the pendulum between core and edge in terms of where processing and value happens. >> Yeah, and value exchange obviously now, markup links are becoming the du jour way to exchange value, users are in control, infrastructure equilibrium is interesting. Great stuff. And I'll say, perfect storm for innovation. The waves are coming. (laughing) >> You know, one thing I've learned over the years is, the innovation, change never stops. There's always an opportunity to innovate, and that's what I love about this movement. >> Blockchain, ICO, PencilDATA, check 'em out, Val Bercovici, founder and CEO, great friend of theCUBE, also really strong CTO, check these guys out. This wave of innovation around blockchain ICOs and infrastructure, reimagining, the future is here upon us at theCUBE, be right back with more, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE. Covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE's exclusive coverage of NetApp Insight 2017. I'm John Furrier, the cohost of theCUBE; co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media here with Keith Downson, my cohost for the day. CTO Advisor. Our next guest is Brett Roscoe; vice president of process solutions marketing at NetApp; and Madge Miller, who's the director of Worldwide Public Relations PR. So, how're you guys feeling? The end of the day. A lot of action. >> A lot of stuff going on. >> I thought that was why they reinvent; all these announcements. Almost we needed another keynote. >> We do. We definitely do. A lot of really great announcements happening this week, and a lot of really big excitement in the halls about what is happening with our announcements. And you know Microsoft, HCL. >> John: How many did you have, roughly? >> We had three but we wrapped them into our >> John: Oh really? >> Only three, three big ones >> John: Three big ones? >> Three press releases, right? >> Yeah three big ones >> We had multiple functions, multiple products in each one. >> I mean it felt like it was 60 announcements >> Yeah, yeah it did >> But you packaged them up into three >> Yes, to map to our three IT imperatives and to map back to the data visionary transformation that NetApp has been undergoing this past year. >> John: So you've been busy? >> Very busy. >> Herding the cats internally putting it all into blocks so three transformation zones are: 1. Data center, traditional data center modernization and extension. Next generation data center, and then power of cloud. >> Brett: Yeah, harnessing the power of cloud, absolutely. >> Harnessing the power of the cloud. Which is on everyone's mind. As a portfolio, not a product any more, because in the old days you had the product, now it's a portfolio the data fabric is really kicking new territory now. How do you put that together when you take it to the market? Because you know representative notations are great but customers are different; you can't just put one customer in a box and say there are ten other customers like that because they might have a mix of hybrid cloud, a little bit of on-prem. >> Yeah well if you hear, I'm sure you've heard, Data Fabric that is our, that's how we talk about connecting the hybrid cloud so that spans really all three of those so whether you're in a modernized next gen data center or a hard sparrow cloud the data fabric kind of spans all of those and it creates a unique story for NetApp about how we break down boundaries between traditional on-prem and cloud-based environments. So that really spans a portfolio right but then when you get into these different solutions even though there might be something around modernize we still talk about how you're going to harness the power of the cloud within that modernized capability. So all our announcements this week, it's really cool to see that hybrid cloud capability coming through all of that. It's one of the key investments in our product roadmap and you're seeing that come as we new capabilities. >> OK Jean did a great job on the marketing but I get excited by Sheila FitzPatrick because she's driving the passion around privacy which is not so much security but it's data security, data privacy, data as tech, data for developers. You've got governance going on, you got privacy; GDPR going on in Europe. So you guys are in a lot of touch-points you've got a lot of irons in the fire relative to the market opportunities outside the core base. >> Brett: Right. >> What's the plan, because everyone's like "What's my reference implementation, how do I use NetApp?" >> Well we started using use case terminology. We have nine different use cases that we use. So that's really about the issue or the problem or the project the customer's working on right so if they're trying to build, if they're trying to accelerate a traditional application or if they're trying to harness new modern data services from the cloud. Or if they're trying to build DevOps environments. So we use that buyer journey to come in and talk to the customer and say "This is what we think you're trying to do. Here's the unique capabilities with our portfolio that we can bring to that solution." So we really try to make the product the last part and we really talk about the capabilities across the portfolio; how they address and differentiate us into each of those use case environments. So that's really the way we try to simplify it so we're not talking about all these different products, we're talking about NetApp's capabilities. >> So I was pretty impressed with the keynote yesterday we got an hour into the keynote without even mentioning a product. However this conference has typically, has traditionally been a storage conference. So how has the average attendee as you've walked the floor and as you've talked to the customers and attendees. How have they been receptive of that message of data first and now today we get to the meat of actual speeds and fees? >> I think really the thing about the conversation that NetApp is having now and just like you saw on stage at the keynote is that we are allowing people to elevate their role within their organization. So everyone is coming to the IT department and saying you know "How do I create these new services, how do I monetize data?" and now we're giving our folks that we've worked with traditionally for years the opportunity to step in that conversation and be experts and really come and be the hero in that conversation just like you saw on stage. So they can take their knowledge of those speeds and fees and they can come in and interpret them for new services new revenue models for data. >> And you guys did a great job with the A-team you had a bunch of them on here in theCUBE. They had the greatest analysts come in because they're on the front lines. They're a mix of tech geeks and also partners. >> Yeah they're great advocates right? And I also spent the whole day meeting with our analyst community as they come away to get their impressions and they were very positive, very excited. They've kind of been on this journey with us and watched us transform as we go through our own digital transformation about becoming a data-focused company. Around meeting customer needs and how they extract value and create new customer touchpoints and optimize operations and look for new innovative ways to use data. >> Alright so where is the focus in the solutions and also the comms. is important to because as you have comms. and solutions. You're like on the landscape looking at all the community action going on. You've also got to look at what's going on in the narrative of the industry; for thought leadership. You got to come in and pick and choose your resources for instance the Cloud Native Compute Foundation is one of the hottest things on the planet for Cloud. So that's more open source but there's a lot of influencers in there; a lot of A-tea potential. You've got to make some choices So as you go out to the market how do you look at the landscape because there's almost too much to do for you guys. If you hit every single piece, where is the focus? >> Yeah, I think that's really where our core message of being the data authority in the hybrid cloud world comes in and looking back at those three IT imperatives that we talked about. Really our focus is on building out those core strengths and that's really what you saw from our announcements at the show, is building up to those core strengths that we have and continuing to build them out. >> About customer and community sectors. Open source obviously is still growing like crazy. >> Open source is important for us. Looking at hyperscalers is very important for us looking at cloud native partners as we go forward you know which is part of what our announcement with Microsoft was about today is moving more into that cloud native conversation as NetApp with our core services and things that we're really known for and made us who we are today. >> Brett you've got to look at the cloud thing with Microsoft, I mean now not only are they a great channel for you guys >> Brett: Yeah. >> And you guys have got to step up to the plate and deliver some good value because you know they're finicky, they have sales guys out on the streets. Got to be reliable to be rock solid so pressure's on you but this opens up a lot of doors for NetApp doesn't it? >> Well yeah I think it's a fantastic opportunity for us right? It's an honor that Microsoft chose us as a partner in this space but at the same time I do believe that we are the best, we have the best capability in this space right? A true scalable enterprise capability that we bring to others I think is going to be right. It's going to hit the heart of the market for them and really provide a high quality, high enterprise scale kind of service. So I think, I'm super excited that this partnership came together; I think it makes total sense you look at the number one hyperscaler, the number one data vendor out there and you say they've come together to address customer needs. >> Alright here's the trick question at the end of the day to see what I can get out of you Dave Alanti and I.. >> All: (laughter) >> You know we're good at trick questions. >> OK this is good. >> We always fall for them, we're totally good at that. >> I shouldn't have said that on theCUBE. This is more of a philosophical question because David Alanti always thought like, "Never fight fashion." Fashion is key in success because you can ride the wave and be fashionable. So the question is what is the fashion in the market that you see? Because you guys now are at a level in my opinion where you can walk in the front door of all the thought leader theaters and say "Hey cloud native guys, we've got a great story for you." "Hey governance, we've got a great story there." So you have now a whole new level of territory that you can take down and have conversations in. So that comes to the fashion question. What's fashionable that you guys are focused on? If that's the fashion trend then what is NetApp wearing? >> Which designer, what designer? >> Are they wearing designer cloud native? Are they wearing..? >> Not my best analogy; you didn't hit my strong point. You could have used a sports analogy or something like that. >> If you were a baseball team? >> No, no, no she's all ready. >> No go ahead you do fashion. >> You do yours Brett no no no do a sports analogy. >> Go ahead, go ahead. >> West Coast offense of course. >> Yes we could totally do a fashion analogy I think that what you saw us wearing today around our data fabric momentum, around our cloud announcements, even around the digital customer experience with Elio and Active IQ. The way we're using our partnership with Watson, IBM Watson. Those are the types of things that you'll see from us in the future. The customer experience message really is around us using our own systems and amplifying those in a way that we hope our customers will in the future so you'll see a lot more of those types of things from us into, you know, into the next fashion season. >> And the old expression, if you've got sizzle a bit have the steak and again nice fabric you're wearing. >> So, since we're talking in analogies you guys are actually building up a lot of political capital. The Microsoft announcement gives you, from an optics perspective you can, that gets you into the door. "Hold on, this NFS thing is powered by NetApp?" Opens up a set of conversations with a completely different set of customers. How do you spend that capital next? What's the next level of conversations with CIOs, CDOs, CMOs? >> John: CXOs, yeah. >> Well you know we're in those conversations today right. So we've had on-tap cloud and several even pure SaaS-based products for a while and they're making great traction, there's huge growth in those new products. Obviously with the Microsoft partnership it allows us to actually reach, I'm excited about hitting new buyers that may have not seen NetApp as a vendor that that would leverage, maybe just through association or maybe their persona or the job they do wouldn't put NetApp right in front of them so now we have a new audience, right? We have a whole new audience that we can show our value. You know we, I think will have ways to work with Microsoft to bring additional capabilities into that service that they're going to provide, and how do we work with them to do that and make sure that customers see value, see additional future capabilities that they can leverage from us, it's a tremendous opportunity. It's now, it's our market, to go this is our opportunity to go show value to them. This is a great opportunity and we need to take advantage of it, and it ours to dip into. >> You guys are going to take more territory, great stuff. We're going to give you guys the final word in the segment. but for the folks who couldn't make it, they're watching this segment. Share with them what were the key things here happening that they should know about and take away from NetApp Insight? What are the key things? >> Brett, you want to take this one? >> You start and I'll finish. >> OK, we'll tag team this one. I think the big thing obviously is the Microsoft announcement. It's us moving more into that cloud native territory. That's a really big one. Also the digital customer experience the Elio and Active IQ for customer support. I think those are very big too showing us using our own capabilities for our customers as a company. >> OK, look I think you said it earlier; portfolio announce. We continue to come with multiple, with several new capabilities across the portfolio, right? And I think if you look at our focus which is hey we're building more software capability, we are building more hybrid, more capabilities in the cloud. More capabilities in hybrid; enforcing that data fabric message. I tell you, I know I'm biased, but nobody does it better. Nobody can come in and provide the position that NetApp has to help customers through this transformation leveraging cloud, leveraging new technologies, new microservices into their architecture in a way that we do it that is seamless and easy. >> And the cloud orchestrator is just one example of that's multi-cloud. >> Absolutely. >> You've got to shift to be first to market with true multi-cloud right out of the gate so congratulations and sorry to hear about all the tragedy that happened around your event you guys handled it with class and respect, thank you. >> Yeah it was definitely a tough situation I thought the entire leadership team did a fantastic job of working through that. >> Props to the NetApp leadership and the whole team. It's theCUBE here live in Las Vegas, the Mandalay Bay for the NetApp insight 2017. We'll be back with more after this short break. (technology music) >> Narator: Calling all barrier-breakers, status quo

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering NetApp Insight 2017, brought to you by NetApp. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay. This is The Cube's exclusive coverage of NetApp Insight 2017. I'm John Furrier, the cohost of The Cube, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media with my cohost, Keith Townsend with CTO Advisors. Our next guest is Jean English. She's the Chief Marketing Officer of NetApp. Great to see you, thanks for having us, and thanks for coming on The Cube. >> Oh, thank you, thank you guys for being here. >> So NetApp is no longer a storage company, we learned. But then last year, now this year, you're a data company. >> Jean: (laughs) That's right. >> The brand promise is still the same. Take us through, as the Chief Marketing Officer, you have to, it's a complex world. One of your concepts here we've been seeing is winning while in a tough environment and IT is a tough environment. I got application development going on. I got DevOps. I got data governance. I got security issues, internet of things. It's a challenging time for our customers. How is your brand promise evolving? >> So we really see that NetApp is the data authority for hybrid cloud, and the amazing thing is is that what we see is our customers aren't talking to us about storage anymore. They're talking to us about data, and what their data challenges are, and most companies are trying to think through if they're going to transform, how are they going to harness the wealth of the data. What are they going to do to maximize the value of the data? >> And the cloud too is center stage, 'cause the cloud is a forcing function that's changing the relationship of your partners, VARs who has a lot of folks on talking about the dynamics with customers around multiple clouds. We saw on stage the announcement with Microsoft. Congratulations. >> Jean: Thank you. >> So you've been in Amazon for a while. We've been covering that, but the on-premise work still is growing, where you have the data from Wikibon Research came out shows that the on-premise true private cloud, which is defined as cloud operation business model is actually growing. However, the decline in automation of non-differentiated labor is declining by 1.5 billion over the next five years, which means the SAS market is going to continue to explode and grow, so the on-premise is actually growing, as is the cloud. How does that change the narrative for you guys, or does it, or is that a tailwind for NetApp? >> We think it's a complete tailwind in for NetApp. When we think about data today, we see that it's really becoming more distributed across environments. It's definitely more dynamic, as you're looking for the latest source of truth. And the diversity of data, especially with machine learning. I mean, it is exploding. So, how do you start to be able to build that data together? We really think of it as that our customers want to maximize that value and the only way to do that is to start to think about how do they bring it together, and how do they get more insight from that data, and then how do they have more access and control of that data, and then the most questions we usually get from our customers around, how do I make sure it's secure? But the really big point is is that, as we think about what NetApp is doing, it has been about three things that we see with our customers. They have to make sure that they're modernizing what they have today, and that goes to the on-prem environment, so if it's going to be that they got to accelerate applications, they want to make sure that they have that. But this notions of building clouds, even building private clouds. And we think of that as a next-generation data center, especially with DevOp environments. Then harnessing the power of the cloud and hybrid cloud world. And if they are not able to really leverage the cloud for SAS applications, if they're leveraging the cloud for backup, or even disaster recovery, data protection, that's where we see that these three imperatives, when they come together, that they're truly, truly able to unleash the power. >> So we saw on stage, CEO George Kurian talking about his personal situations in light of what's happened in Las Vegas here. Data is changing the world, and your tagline is "Change the world with data." So I got to ask you, obviously, data, we see a lot of examples in society and also personal examples of data being harnessed for value. The cloud can be great there, it's all on-prem. How do you guys position NetApp as a company? I know there's a lot of positioning exercises in marketing you do, but positioning is really important. That's what you do. The tagline is kind of the emotional aspect of it, okay, changing the world, let's change the world with data. I believe that. But what's the positioning of NetApp? How would you say that the positioning- What's the positioning statement of NetApp? >> The positioning statement of NetApp, I think we've really seen a big break in the positioning in the last couple of years. And why is because the customers are demanding something different. They're really looking for more hybrid cloud data services. And what are those data services that accelerate and integrate data, and that notion of on-prem and in the cloud, that's where we see what's going to happen to accelerate digital transformation. And so, this notion of yes, thought about as storage before, customers are demanding more for their data and they need data services, especially in hybrid environments to really be able to drive their business. >> The old expression, "Position it, they will come." And you guys have done a good job with the data. Okay, now let's get to the customer reality. You have to go out and do the tactical marketing. They're busy, right? There's a lot of noise out there. We just came back from New York and our Big Data NYC event that we ran in conjunction with Strata, which is a separate event, and it's clear they don't want the hype. They want reality. The rubber's hitting the road because they're so busy, and with the the security and the governance challenges- GDPR, for instance, in Europe is a huge pressure point for data. A lot of challenges but they want the magic. (laughter) It should be easy, right? But it's not. How do you guys go out day to day and take that to the field message? What's your strategy? >> Well, you talked about changing the world with data. And it feels like a lofty promise, but we really believe that when we come down to the purpose of why NetApp exists, it is to empower our customers to change the world with data and that's something that NetApp has been focused on not just for today, but the 25 years of history, and then also into the future. So what makes that the reality? Well number one, they want something that's simple. And so this notion of simplicity, and no matter how they think about managing or optimizing their data, it's got to be simple and easy to manage. Optimized to protect, I think data protection is critically important. Things about safeguarding data across its life cycle. and I think that NetApp has always been focused on how to make sure data is secure and protected. And that now is what we're seeing in the cloud too. So, all the relationships and partnerships that we've been creating and solidifying, AWS has been for the last couple years, we've had some latest`announcements of what we're doing to really make sure we have stronger data protection in multi-cloud environments. Obviously, today from what we're doing with Microsoft Azure, in really providing- Not even having to know how to manage storage, you can do it easily in Azure, and- >> No, I'm sorry. I really love this, this message from NetApp. As a traditional technologist, I understand NetApp disrupting the original storage CN Market with Fowlers, you guys were one of the first in the cloud with AWS, so from a trusted partner inside of the infrastructure team, I understand the vision of NetApp. But the transformation also means that you're starting to expand that conversation beyond just that single customer of the storage admin, of the infrastructure group. How is that messaging been going towards that new group of customers within your customers who have said, "NetApp? Isn't that a storage company?" How is that transformation been going? >> (laughs) You know, when we talk about reinventing, NetApp is reinventing itself. And that's what we're going through right now. And what we see is, is that the customers that we know and love, the storage admins and the storage architects, those are definitely tried-and-true and we love our relationships with them. But we see that the demands around data are growing and those demands are starting to reach more into DevOps, application developers, definitely into cloud enterprise architects as we think about cloud environments. The CIO is now under more pressure to think through how- They have a mandate to move to the cloud. Now what? But who do they want to move with? Someone that they've trusted before, and by the way, because we've been first, and because we're so open with all our relationships with the cloud providers, why not move with us? Because we can help them think through it. >> So you're keeping the core. You're not pivoting off the core, you're building on top of the core, extending that. Is that what you're saying? >> We're building off of a really great foundation of who we've had as customers all along. We're establishing new relationships, though, as well, with cloud enterprise architects, and today, we actually just had here at Insight our first executive summit, where we brought together CIOs and CTOs and really talked about what's happening with data and organizations, what's happening with data that's being disruptive, what's happening if you want to thrive, based on data as well. >> There used to be an old expression back in the day when Polaroid was around, "What's the new Polaroid picture of something?" Now it's Instagram, so I have to ask this question. What is the new Instagram picture of NetApp with the customers that you have and for customers now in the data space, there's a lot of data conversations happening. What is that picture of NetApp? What should they know about NetApp? >> NetApp is in the cloud. >> Yeah, I love that messaging that NetApp is in the cloud. And how important is that moving forward? Especially as we look at technology such as ONTAP. They have been there from the beginning. I love the NFS on Azure story, but that's powered by ONTAP, which I kind of- It took me a few minutes to kind of get it, because I'm thinking, "ONTAP in Azure, that's bringing the old to the new." But that's not exactly what it is. What messaging do you want customers to get out of something like an NFS in Azure? >> We want them to understand that they don't have to know anything about storage to be able to protect and manage their data. No matter what environment that they're in. >> And by the way, we've been looking at and commenting critically on The Cube many events now that multi-cloud is a pipe dream. Now I say that only as folks know me. It's real. Customers want multi-cloud, but multi-cloud has been defined as, "Oh, I run 365 on Azure, and I got some analytics on Redshift on Amazon, I do some stuff on-prem. That's considered multi-cloud because there happen to be stuff on multiple clouds. You guys are doing something with cloud orchestrate that's quite interesting. It truly is multiple clouds in the sense that you can move data, if I get this right, across clouds. >> Jean: That's right. >> So it's in a complete transparent way, seamless way, so I don't have to code anything. Is that true? If that's true, then you might be one of the first multi-cloud use cases. >> We are one of the first multi-cloud use cases. We have created the data fabric, which is really looking at how do you seamlessly integrate across multiple clouds or on-prem environments? The data fabric, we've been talking about this vision for a couple of years. What we're seeing now is customers are seeing it come to reality. And now that we have more and more relationships expanding, as we mentioned we've been building SAS offerings with AWS for a couple years, we just had the big announcement today with Microsoft Azure. We're working with IBM Cloud. We're also working with Google Cloud, Alibaba, so as we think about a seamless data fabric, they want frictionless movement in and out of the cloud. >> Jean, I got to change gears for a second, because one of the things we've been observing over the past couple of months, certainly we were at the Open Source Summit, Linux Foundation. Open source is growing exponentially now. You've seen the new onboarding of developers in general and enterprise is going to take the bulk of that. Companies are supplying personnel to contribute on open source projects. That's continuing to happen. Nothing new there. But it's starting to change the game. You see Blockchain out there, getting some traction, ICOs and all that hype, but it points to one thing. Communities are really valuable. So as a marketer, I know you were at IBM, very community-oriented, very open source oriented, the role of communities is going to be super important as customers discover- So marketing is changing from batch marketing, you know, surge email marketing to real-time organic with communities. It's not just have a social handle. Really, have you guys looked at the B2B marketing transformation as customers start to make selections and take opinions in the new organic communities, because you have people in these projects, in open source, who are making decisions based on content. What's your view on communities and the importance of communities? >> Well, we believe highly in communities. Our A-Team is a community with us that is so strong, and they're our biggest advocates. They get brought in very, very early on in terms of learning about our new technologies and learning our story and understanding our strategy and where we're moving. I think you may have talked to some of our A-Team members before. >> John: Quite strong, very strong. >> But they are an amazing group of people and we believe highly that their advocacy is what is really going to help us to stay in touch and be really close to these new buyers as well. >> And you've got to really internalize that too in the company. Operationally, any best practices you can share with other CMOs? 'Cause this is a challenge for a lot of marketers is, how do you operationalize something new? >> Yes, well, we're finding that this notion of reinvention and it starts with the company itself. And it starts with their own employees. So when we talk about the shift from storage to data, we're even having our own employees talk about their own data story and how do they connect data. George talked about his data story, actually, on the main stage in our keynote the other day. But connecting to that's been really important. This notion of transforming to think about these new customers and new buyers, it starts with the customer needs, it's not about a product-out discussion. And so, a new story to a new buyer, relevancy, what's happening in their industry, and then engagement, engagement, engagement. >> I've been following NetApp since they were start-up and they went public, great story. They have a DNA of reinvention. David Hitz is going to to come out, I'm sure. We'll talk about that, because he's been an entrepreneur, but he's also had that entrepreneurial DNA. It's kind of still in the company, so my question to you is, from a personal perspective, what have you learned or observed at NetApp during this reinvention, not a pivot, it's not at all. It's more of an inflection point for NetApp and a new way, a new way to engage with customers, a new way to build products, a new way to do software development, a new way to use data. This is a theme we're seeing. What's your personal observation, learnings that you could share? >> Well, in my first month, what I really learned is just the absolute amazing culture of what NetApp has and this notion of we're always embracing what our customers want to where we move. So what our customer wants, we move with it. We embrace it holistically. Years and years ago, you know, Linux and Windows. A couple of years later, virtualization, virtualized environments. Could've killed us. Made us stronger. Now, embracing the cloud. A lot of our customers say, "I would have canceled the meeting with you, but now I understand that you're interested in the cloud and that you're in the cloud, I've totally changed my mind." And we say, "We love the cloud. We embrace the cloud holistically." >> You guys are progressive. I've noticed it's a competitive strategy kind of theory but as the old expression goes, "You got to eat your own to get to the new market. Some companies will milk the market share dry and then can't get to the new model. This is the reinvention challenge. When do you stop making profits to build for the future? It's a tough call. >> It is, but that's why we listen to what our customers say. And so, when they talked about wanting to move to the cloud a few years ago, we said, "We're going to be the first to holistically embrace the cloud." >> Okay, so you got the NetApp Insight 2017 going on in Berlin. Okay, that brings up the question, because it's in Germany, so I have to ask. GDPR has been super hot. The global landscape, how is that going on for NetApp? Obviously you have some experience in outside the US. It's not always the US, North America centric world. What's the global story for NetApp? >> It's not. I lived in China and Singapore, and I know that there are demands that are not just US-centric. When we talk about Germany, I was just there a few months ago, and this notion of how do we start to address the articles that are in GDPR that help to make sure that we have the right compliance and protection for data inside of a country and inside of Europe. We actually have expertise in that area. We've been actually consulting and talking with customers about what they want to do with data compliance and we're being asked now to say, "How does NetApp help address those articles? How do we come back with solutions to help control data and make sure we have the right access of data?" So, we're already consulting with customers. We know it's a top priority, and we have expertise to be able to help. >> We had Sheila FitzPatrick on. She's the Chief Privacy Officer. Very colorful, very dynamic, a lot of energy. >> Jean: She is. (laughs) >> She's going to slap anyone around who says you don't bolt on privacy. Good policy conversations, the policies converging in with that. It's interesting, the global landscape- The Cube will be in China next week for the Alibaba Cloud Conference, so we're going to go report, see what's going on there, so huge international challenge around regulations and policy. Does that affect the marketing at all? Because policy kind of is data privacy and security. Security super hot, obviously. Data security is number- A big thing. How does policy intersect with the technology? How as a CMO do you get that realized and put into action? >> Well, I think basing on the foundation that we're always optimized to protect. That's one of our key foundations of why people choose NetApp. We definitely know that there are other demands that are happening in local markets. I was just in Australia few weeks ago and was meeting with the New South Wales government, which they've had a mandate that all of the agencies need to use their own cloud platform. They've been working with NetApp to ensure that they can have the right data management solutions on that platform. And from a marketing perspective, we embrace that. And so we work with, whether it's Telstar, we're working with New South Wales, we're thinking about how do we ensure that that message is strong, because we know customers there have different demands than just what's in the US. >> So when you get CIOs and and senior executives together at a summit like you guys had over the past few days, ideas start to percolate, problem start to come across. What was some of the biggest policy concerns throughout those conversations? Was it GDPR? Was it something else? What's top-of-mind? >> What we're hearing top-of-mind right now is data governance. And I think that that could be towards data compliance in terms of GDPR for Europe. I think it expands beyond Europe, though. I just heard, like I said, in Australia, where they're having demands based on the government of what's needed to be really driven through a cloud platform. We're hearing through our customers in the last couple weeks about if I'm moving to the cloud, number one, I want to have seamless transition during the move in or out of the cloud, but I got to make sure I've got the right governance model in place. >> So we've heard this repeatedly. Customers moved into the cloud. How many customer are coming to you saying, "You know what, for whatever reason, whether it's cost, agility, the overall capability we thought we'd have available in the cloud, not really what we thought it would be. We need help moving it back." And what is that conversation like? >> Well, it's a conversation that we're able to help with pretty easily. Right now, we have had customers that have either had one, a cloud mandate, so they got to think about how am I going to move all my data to the cloud. Once they actually start getting into the detail, we do a design workshop where we help them think about maybe there's not all workloads going to the cloud. Maybe some workloads go in the cloud. We have had a customer who did move the majority of workloads in the cloud and then decided, actually, we think we'll get better cost performance and better efficiencies if we actually have those back on-prem. We said, "No problem. We can help you with that too." And I think that's the beauty of what we talked about with data fabric is, we're able to help them think through, no matter where they want their data, on-prem or in the cloud, we can help them. >> Jean, thanks for coming up here. I know your time is super valuable. I got to get one more point in, 'cause I want to make sure we get that out there. Public sector. NetApp's position strong, getting better? What's your thoughts? A quick update on public sector. >> We are very, very strong on public sector. We've actually had a strong presence in public sector with our customers for many years. And we're continuing to help them think about too how they start to look at cloud environments. >> All right, Jean English, CMO here on The Cube. Getting the hook here in the time. She's super busy. Thanks for coming. Congratulations- >> Jean: Thank you. >> On great positioning and looking forward to chatting further at The Cube. Live coverage here, Las Vegas at the Mandalay Bay. I'm John Furrier, Keith Townsend. We'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit. It's our first time at PagerDuty Summit and Pier 27, our first time to this cool venue. It's right on the water between the Bay Bridge and Pier 39, beautiful view outside. Unfortunately, the fire smoke's a little over-the-top. But we're excited to have one of our favorite guests, Jennifer Tejada. She's the CEO at PagerDuty. Jennifer, great to see you. >> Thank you. It's so great to be back, Jeff. >> Absolutely. So this is, what, your second PagerDuty Summit? >> This is our second PagerDuty Summit. >> 500-some-odd people? >> I think we've had 700 through the door already. We've got a few hundred streaming online. Almost twice what we did last year. So we're really excited. We're still in the infancy stages of sponsoring an industry event, and we've been really focused on trying to make it a little different to insure that people walk away with actionable insights, and best practices and learnings they can take immediately back to their teams, and to their companies. So we've had just some awesome guest speakers and panelists here today, and it's been a lot of fun. The PagerDuty band played live at lunch. >> That's right, I saw them at lunchtime. >> Yeah, which was great. So we're having a good time. >> What are they called? The On-Calls. >> The On-Calls. I let them name themselves. >> And so, you've been here a year now. So, how are things moving, how are you moving the company along since you got here? What are some of the strategic things that you've been able to execute, and now you're looking forward? >> So, it's just been an incredible year, honestly. You always hope for a number of things when you come into a new role. You hope that the team rallies around the business. You hope that the opportunity is as significant as you thought it would. You hope that there aren't more bad surprises than you think there are going to be. PagerDuty's been so unique, in that there have been more good surprises than bad surprises. There's so much potential to unlock in the business. But probably the thing that's most amazing about it is the people, the community, and the culture around PagerDuty, and just the sense of alliance towards making the engineering world work better to insure that customer experience and employee experience is better. There's just a real sense of duty there, and there's a sense that the community is there with you trying to make it happen, as opposed to working against you. So a lot of our innovation this year, and I mean, we've released tons of new technology product, including machine learning and analytics, and going from reactive and responsive to proactive. There's a lot of stuff happening. So much of that has come from input from our practitioner community and our customer base. You just don't always have that kind of vocal engagement, that proactive, constructive engagement from your customer base, so that's just been amazing. And the team's awesome. We've expanded into the UK and western Europe over this summer. We opened an office in Sydney recently. We've shifted from being a single-product company to a platform company. We've more than doubled in size, 150 people to over 350 people. We're in 130 countries now, in terms of where our customer base lives, and just around 10 thousand customers, so really, really amazing progress. Sometimes I feel like we're a little bit of a teenage prodigy, you know? We're growing super fast, other kids are starting to learn how to play the piano. It's a little awkward, but we're still really good at what we do. I think the thing that keeps us out in front is our commitment, and all of our efforts being in service to making both the lives better of the practitioners in our community, and creating quantifiable value for our enterprise customers. >> It's interesting to focus on the duty, because that kind of came with the old days of when you were the person that had to wear the pager, right? Whether you're a doctor on call, or you were the IT person. So it's an interesting metaphor, even though probably most of the kids here have never seen a pager. >> No, I remember as a kid, my dad was in healthcare, and he had a pager, and you knew that when the pager went off, it was time. You were on-duty, you were out. And there's an honor in duty, and it is a service to the organization. Adrian Cockcroft was here this morning, VP of architecture from AWS, and known for cloud architecture that he built out at Netflix. And he said something really interesting, which is, he believes all people should be on-call, because you need the pain to go where it's most useful. And if everybody's on-call, it also creates this kind of self-fulfilling cycle. If you know you're going to be on-call, you build better code. If you know you're going to be on-call on the weekend, you don't ship something stupid on Friday night. If you know you're going to be on-call and you're a non-technical person, you align yourselves with people who are technical that can help you when that happens. So there's something sort of magical that happens when you do have that culture of being available on the spot when things don't go as planned. >> And now you've got a whole new rash of technology that you can apply to this, in the area of artificial intelligence and machine learning. Wonder if you could share a little bit, where is that now taking you for the next step? >> I think the biggest opportunity with machine learning for us is that, over the last eight years, we've been collecting a tremendous amount of data. And AI and machine learning are only as good as the data they sit on top of. So we have three really interesting data sets. We have the events and the signals that come from all of the machine instrumentation, the applications, the monitoring environment, the ticketing platforms that we integrate directly to. We have information around the workflow, what works best for most of our customers, what doesn't work. What's the best agile-centric DevOps related workflow that enables ultimate response and ultimate availability and resilience for customers. And then finally, what's going on with the people? Who are the people that work the hardest for you? Who are the people that have the subject matter expertise to be the most useful when things aren't working the way they should? You bring all of that together, and you build a model that starts to learn, which immediately means you can automate a lot of manual process. You can improve the quality of decisions, because you're making those decisions in context. An example would be, if an incident pops up, we see it in the form of a signal or a set of events. And our machine learning will recognize that we've actually seen those events before. And the last time this happened, here's what the outcome was, here's what went well and not so well, here's how you fixed it, and here's the person who was on top of it, here's the expert you need to call. So I've immediately shortened the distance between signal and action. I've gotten the people, now, that are going to come in to that process to respond to either a problem or an opportunity, are already much more prepared to be successful quickly, efficiently, and effectively. >> So you've shortened it and you've increased the probability of success dramatically. >> Exactly. And maybe you don't even need a person. That person can go off and do other more important proactive work. >> But you're all about people. And we first met when you were at Keynote and we brought you out for a Women in Tech interview. So you had a thing on Tuesday night that I want for you to share. What did you do Tuesday night? >> I was just super moved and inspired and excited. I've had the opportunity to attend lots of diversity events, lots of inclusion events, a lot of support groups, I'm asked to speak a lot on behalf of women and under-represented minorities, and I appreciate that, and I see that as my own civic duty to help lead the way and set an example, and reach back for other people and help develop younger women and minorities coming up. But I've found that a lot of these events, it's a bunch of women sitting in a room talking about all the challenges that we're facing. And I don't need to spend more time identifying the problem. I understand the problem. What I really wanted to do was bring together a group of experts who have seen success, who have a demonstrable track record for overcoming some of these barriers and challenges, and have taken that success and applied it into their own organizations, and sort of beating the averages in terms of building inclusive, diverse teams and companies. So Tuesday was all about one, creating a fun environment, we had cocktails, we had entertainment, it was in a great venue at Dirty Habit, where we could have a proactive, constructive, action-oriented conversation about things that are working. Things that you can hear from a female leader who's a public company executive, and take that directly back to your teams. Expert career advice, how some of these women have achieved what they have. And we just had a phenomenal lineup. Yvonne Wassenaar, who's the CEO of Airware, and Andreessen Horowitz come, theCUBE alumni, previously CIO at New Relic. We had Merline Saintil, who's the head of operations for all of product and technology for Intuit. Sheila Jordan, the CIO of Symantec. We had Alvina Antar, who's the CIO at Zuora. And, I'm missing one ... Oh, Rathi Murthy, the CTO at the Gap. And so, just quite an incredible lineup of executives in their own right. The fact that they happen to be a diverse group of women was just all the more interesting. And then we surprised the organization. After about 45 minutes of this discussion, sharing key learning, sharing best practices, we brought in the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus, who are just embarking, in the next 10 days, on a trip called the Lavender Pen Tour, where they're looking to spread love, hope, and social justice, and proof that diversity delivers results, in the southern states, where equality equals gender equality, and I think challenges for equal opportunity for the LGBTQ community are really significant. And Mikkel Svane, who's the CEO of Zendesk, introduced me to Chris, the director there, about a week before, and I was so inspired by what they're doing. This is a group of 450 volunteers, who have day jobs, who perform stunning shows, beautiful music together, that are going to go on four buses for 11 days around the Deep South, and I think, make a big difference. And they're taking the Oakland Interfaith Gospel Choir with them. So just really cool. So they came, and I mean, when's the last time you went to a diversity event and people were singing, and dancing, and toasting? It was just really different, and everybody walked away learning something new, including the number of male executives, champions that I asked to come as my special guest, to support people in building sponsorship, to support these women and these under-represented minorities in finding connections that can help them build their own careers, they learned a lot at the event. It was incredible. I'm really proud of it, and it's the start of something special. >> I love it. I mean, you bring such good energy, both at your day job, and also in this very, very important role that you play, and it's great that you've embraced that, and not only take it seriously, but also have some fun. >> What's the point if you're not going to have fun? You apply the growth mindset to one of the biggest problems in the industry, and you hack it the same way you would a deeply technical problem, or a huge business problem. And when we get constructive and focused like that, amazing things happen. And so I now have people begging to be on the next panel, and we're trying to find the next venue, and got to come up with a name for it, but this is a thing. >> And oh, by the way, there's better business outcomes as well. >> I mean, I did a ton of business that night. Half that panel were customers that are continuing to invest and partner with PagerDuty, and we're excited about the future. And some of those women happen to be machine learning experts, for instance. So, great opportunity for me to partner and get advice on some of the new innovation that we've undertaken. >> Well, Jennifer, thanks for inviting us to be here. We love to keep up with you and everything that you're doing, both before and in your current journey. And congrats on a great event. >> My pleasure. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. >> She's Jennifer Tejada, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Boston, Massachusetts It's theCUBE. Covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, RedHat, and additional ecosystem support. (upbeat techno music fades out) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, joined by John Troyer, and this is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's live broadcast of OpenStack 2017 here in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts. Actually, the clouds have been breaking up, a little bit of sunshine here, and it's our third day of broadcasts. We have really a lot of our editorial segment today. Going to be talking to more community members, talking to one of the Superuser winners, a number of startups, and happy to start the day, Lisa-Marie Namphy who is the US OpenStack ambassador. CUBE alum, been on a number of times. Lisa, tell us what's new in your world. >> Thank you Stu, and thanks John and what a pleasure to be here with you folks, and hello, Boston and world, good morning. What's new, well the OpenStack ambassador program is expanding all the time, we just had a great session that Sonia did to kick off the day today to really talk about, you know, how to get involved in OpenStack, even if you're not necessarily a technical person. It's really important to acknowledge how everybody in our community can contribute, and that's one of the things the ambassador program does really well. So we just had a session on that. One of the things that I've done with our user group that is new and super exciting is I've morphed it into a little bit of the OpenStack in Containers user group. So I've been focusing a lot on containers, done 12 or 13 meetups on Kubernetes and or Docker since last summer, and I just had the pleasure of speaking in the CNCF communities track, communities day track yesterday, and that was so much fun, out there in the grand ballroom, so that's kind of some new and fun things we're doing. >> It's great, this is our fifth year doing theCUBE at this show, always a robust community, really. When we started coming, it was the people building it, Now we have a lot of the users, there's different sub-segments, can you speak a little bit to the kind of maturity of the community, and, you know how do people get involved in the ambassador program, how many are there geographically, number wise, diversity, those kind of things. >> Oh gosh, yeah so it's geo, or it's a worldwide program and it's been going a lot, and you're right, you know years ago, here it was the Design Summit, and we sat around and talked about, you know the next six months of the project, and then it morphed into more users, adoption, customers, operators are a really big one too. And now those things are all so big, we have operators, Midcycles, and all and the Design Summit has been, you know sequestered off into, separated out so that we can really focus here on the customers, the community, users, and those type of contributors as well. So things have changed a lot in the seven years since we've been doing OpenStack. The ambassador program is fantastic. The foundation has done a really good job in the last couple of years of acknowledging the contributions of the user community, and so not necessarily the code contributors only, but the people who are also spending as much time contributing in really significant ways to our community, and growing our commnity. Open source doesn't work without a community. So we know that, and we're doing a much better job of acknowledging who those people are and rewarding them. >> John: How many ambassadors worldwide? >> There's about twenty of us. I'm the only one in the US right now, but we're about to change that. I believe my friend Sheila is going to join and cover the East Coast, and I'll be able to do everything west of the Mississippi, but most countries only have one, and... >> And the role of an ambassador, do you do a lot of meetups? Do you go speak? You're there as a, for people to contact as well, right? >> Yeah, we generally recruit or ask people to be ambassadors if they are already doing those things, if they're already running a local user group, if they already have a brand in OpenStack, and they speak, and they kind of already know how to reach out to people, and how to inspire people, or people see them on stage, and that's why the foundation approached me to do it. I had been running the San Francisco Bay area meetup for three years, and speaking, I don't know this is probably my eighth, ninth, maybe tenth OpenStack Summit that I've been speaking at, and OpenStack days and all of that. And so, you kind of see who's already doing it. The cool thing about community is nobody is asked to do it, like you do it because you have a passion for it, because you love it, because it's the right thing to do, because it's helpful to push the technology forward because you have a passion for the technology, because you love people, all these reasons is why people get into it. So you find all over the world people who are doing this. They're already doing it and they're not being paid to do it they're doing it, those are the people you grab, because you know, there is a burnout level to it but those are the people who have enough passion about it and commitment, and believe in community that they're going to be successful at it. >> Can you talk a little bit about the Bay Area OpenStack user group? It's one of the largest OpenStack user groups, and one of the themes we've seen this week is a lot of talk about containers, a lot of talk about, well, Kubernetes, but containers in general, kind of demystifying the sometimes confusing story about where's OpenStack good for, where's the container layer good for, it turns out it's good for a couple different places, you can containerize OpenStack, you can also... A lot of talk about the app layer on top, but you actually, what you just said, you've actually expanded the conversation, you don't just sit there and say "this month we're talking about Neutron," you talk about a lot of different topics, and you bring people to the table. >> Yeah, San Francisco area, you are correct, it is the world's largest OpenStack user group, we have over 6,000 members. Not all of them are located in the Bay Area, I think people like to join the user group because we provide a lot of really good content, and we live stream our meetups, we have Google Hangouts, I record them all, they're all on our calendar, if you go to meetup.com/openstack, you get to us because we were the first one. So we do get a lot of people from around the world, and I write newsletters with lots of interesting information but it is a local community and we do encourage people to participate, so the meetups are super important and the only way to make sure that you keep your community strong and keep people coming back is to have phenomenal content in your meetups. So I work really hard to make sure that the content is interesting, that it's relevant, and the most exciting, most relevant conversation since last summer has been containers. The year before that it was networking, and it still kind of is and always will be. So we do a lot of meetups on networking, too, but containers has been what people want to talk about. They're trying to figure this out. OpenStack has reached a maturity level where people, you know, they're not necessarily learning or if they are they can take an OpenStack 101 course and those exist all over the place. So we've gone to the next level, and whether it was Cloud Foundry or now Containers we do like to talk about what else you can do with this fabulous technology, and how you should do it. So we've had meetups where we've presented OpenStack on communities, communities on OpenStack, where I personally came in and did a whole meetup on Kubernetes as the underlay, and Rob Starmer came in and did a whole workshop and hands-on about how to run OpenStack on containers. Yesterday our panel, you heard Dan Berg talk about just simplifying it, run everything in a container, but keep it as simple as possible, so what pieces do you need? So these are the conversations that we like to have in our user group, and people keep coming back because it's an exciting conversation. >> Yeah, expanding on that, you talked about just people are always coming, new people to the community that don't know it, people that are changing jobs all the time, new technologies, I mean, we all know community building is a constant, you know, reinvention in something, you keep needing to work How do the ambassadors, how do stay energized on it, how do you keep the momentum and the energy of the community going? >> Yeah, well the cool thing about an open source community is no matter where you're working, you're still part of the community. So I've worked with so many other people here, I don't even know where they are sometimes. I mean we don't tend to talk about what company we're actually working for, or who's paying your paycheck, and especially in the early days of the project that was definitely true, and so some of my good friends have been at four different companies in the time that we've been doing this OpenStack thing, but we're all still working on OpenStack, and I suspect Kubernetes will be very similar, or Docker. You know, how many people are working on Docker? But there's only 200 people that work for Docker, right? So these technologies kind of take on these lives of their own, and people do switch jobs a lot, but people come to meetups because it's a constant thing, and it's also a good place to keep networking and keep looking for work, so we got a lot of that. The beginning of every meetup, I ask for a show of hands of who's hiring. If I ask for who's looking, not everybody raises their hand but if you ask who's hiring, there's a lot of people hiring all the time, and so then the people can look around and say "okay I'm going to go talk to those people," so yeah, the networking is an important part. >> On that point, are you seeing any trends as to what are the roles that they're hiring for, or you know, companies or industries that definitely have changing skillsets, you know John spent a lot of time helping all those virtualization people moving to that next thing, what are you seeing? >> Engineering is the big one, and people are still looking for OpenStack engineers. I mean people ping me all the time, saying "do you know any OpenStack engineers?" So that's usually the number one thing, developers to help build out these things, and then also the companies that, you know, that aren't OpenStack companies, you know companies like GE that are trying to hire what, 20,000 developers in the next couple years, and Mercedes and Tesla, and you see all these companies that are trying to build out their software developer programs. So another role that is interesting that people are hiring for is these developer, DevRel, Developer IVC community roles to try to figure out, you know how are we going to build our developer community within our company? If these are really large companies, or you know, companies like IBM which have interest in things like the Apache Spark community, or you know, you find these pockets in these large companies as well. Or there's a lot of startups, you know unlike, probably not like Docker as much, but Kubernetes is going to have this ecosystem of partners that build around it, and these companies are popping up out of the woodwork and they're growing like crazy, and there's like 30 of them in the Bay Area, right? So they're really trying to expand as well. >> I wanted to ask about the general mood of the summit. My first summit... You know, it happens every six months. I've been impressed by how grounded people are, I see a lot of first time attendees, people starting new OpenStack installations in 2017 right now, here to learn... I'm just kind of curious, over the last couple summits is there anything different you see about here in Boston, anything you're looking forward to going to in the next one, in terms of kind of mood and how people are, are people feeling good, are people, you know, are people still puzzling out this container issue, or are people still talking about public versus private, or what are kind of the mood and conversations you hear from other community members? >> I think people are talking about public versus private again, not still right? I mean is it, that was kind of an interesting one, and I think Johnathan brought it up on main stage on the first day about that kind of readoption of private cloud, and that you know, we knew that was a sweet spot for OpenStack particularly in the US. You know, lots of public clouds running on other parts of the world, but that's a fun conversation, and it's containers of course, but not just containers. I think it was maybe Lauren Sell who put the slide up of all of those other technologies that are, you know affiliate now, and... >> Another ecosystem of open source projects >> Lisa: Yeah, yeah >> that can all interoperate with openstack. >> With Cloud Foundry, and Ansible was up there, and Ceph, and you had a slide full of technologies, OpenDaylight, that are all playing a role here and that the conversation has been about, and I just encouraged in the ambassador session and in the meetup sessions to do that with your meetup. Our meetup has been really successful and the people have loved it because we started bringing in this other technology. People want to talk about IoT, they want to talk about AI, they want to talk about machine learning, so there's those, they want to talk about, you know what are the best use cases for OpenStack so we showcased to GoDaddy what they built with Docker on top of OpenStack. So there's a lot of fun conversations to be had right now, and I think there's a buzz around here, you know that, what, day one when Johnathan put the slide up saying, you know, people have predicted the end of OpenStack and that was like four years ago or whatever, that was an awesome slide, right? I'm sure talked to him about it. >> Yeah, I absolutely traded notes, and caught opinion about it, too. Lisa, you live in The Valley, I'm curious about perception in The Valley, you know, OpenStacks now been around seven years, it's kind of, you know, it's matured, it's moved on, some called it boring because we fixed some of the main issues, you know We mentioned all the OpenStack days with you know Cloud Foundry, Kubernetes, all these software pieces on top, what do you hear in The Valley when people talk about OpenStack, any misperceptions you'd want to clarify? >> Yeah, yeah it's not boring. It's funny when you say to a California girl "you live in The Valley," I'd be like, "let's just say The Silicon Valley." Not the, not the other Valley. >> Stu: Not the Valley girl >> Don't make me start talking like that, right? >> Stu: Oh my god! (laughs) >> Right, so, no. It's never boring, it's never... It hasn't been boring from day one, and there's been times where I felt like okay we've been talking about infrastructure for years now, let's talk about some other things, but I love the way at this conference they're talking about, they're calling it the "open infrastructure conference." You know, this is what OpenStack has become, and that just opens the conversation. You know, I love that shift. There's always something exciting to talk about, and I don't mean the little inside baseball things, like should we have done Big Ten, should Stackalytics go away, I mean, you know people like to talk about that stuff, but I don't find that customers or the people at the meetups are talking about that stuff. People at the meetups are talking about you know, how should we run this with Kubernetes? How do these technologies fit together? You know, lots of different things, you know where does Docker play into it? Networking is still a conversation and a problem to still be solved, and how are we going to do this? We had OpenContrail do a meetup with us a couple of weeks ago. There's still a lot of interest in figuring out the networking piece of it, and how to do that better. So we're never going to run out of things to talk about. >> Alright, so how do more people get involved, how do they find their meetups, where do they find resources? >> Most of, openstack.org has a list of all the communities, but most of the communities use meetup.com, almost globally, so if you go to meetup.com, and you put in your geo, you'll find one. You can contact your local ambassador. If you want to get involved, I say just go to a meetup. I mean you can't start leading communities until you participate in communities. There is no way to phone this in. You have to, it's hands-on, roll up your sleeves, let's get to work and participate, and have some fun. So go to a local meetup, and meet your meetup organizers, volunteer, help, and it's so rewarding. Some of my best friends that I have, I've met through OpenStack or open source projects. It creates many opportunities for jobs. So just start going to meetups and get involved, and if you want to be an ambassador, there's a list on the website of how to figure that out. Tom Fifield runs the whole program with Sonia's help out of Australia, but regionally we're always looking for help. There's no shortage of roles that people can play if people really want to. >> Definitely a vibrant community here, doing well, Lisa-Marie Namphy, always a pleasure to catch up with you, and we have a full day of programming coming, so stay tuned and thank you for watching the cube. >> Lisa: Thanks Stu, thanks John. (upbeat techno music)