>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering pure storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Cube, The leader and live tech coverage. I'm Lisa Martin with David Dante. We got a pretty cool guests coming up next, guys, you may have seen him here on the Q before. He has back Matt Harris, the head of I T for Mercedes AMG, Petronas Motor Sport. Matt, Welcome back. >> Often a >> way got the car over there with excitement. One of the coolest sports I've ever become involved with. Formula One is this incredible mix of technology strategy. All these crazy things you guys that Mercedes have been partners, customers a cure for about what? 45 years? >> 2015. As a customer, we became partners in 2016. >> I wonder if they like to save Mercedes AMG Petunias Motor Sport has had five consecutive years of both constructors championships driver's championships. You're a great position on both for 2019. It was a little bit of a history about the product that you put out on truck every other week and how pure storage is a facilitator of that. >> Yeah, okay, so it's an interest in a story for those that are interested in Formula One, because what you see on the track looks the same. But realistically, every time he goes out, the guarantee will be different. That level of difference could be a simple wing change or configuration, always based on data that we're learning from during a race again. But every week we also have a different car dependent on the track we're going to. So we have two different worlds that basically were to rate on a minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day at the track. But in the factory, that could be the same sort of it oration. But it could also be into weekly or monthly or year for a car. So all of that is based on data. So everything we do is that businesses revolves around data. We never make a change to the car without me now to back it up with empirical knowledge. Even if the driver turns around and tells us they feel something called, they believe something, we will always make sure we have data to back up that decision, So access to data is critical. Compute performance whether it's high performance, compute for our safety, for instance, whether it's for you as an end user, access to data is critical across everything that we do is time critical Time is our currency really as a business if we slow down your job? Generally, that probably means that you've got less time to make the correct decision. Or maybe you have to turn into a guess or a hunch, which that's never a good place to be in our sport. >> No, I would think not. >> I've I recall, from our conversation last year their rules that say, How many people you can have in your entourage like 60. I think it was yes, and at the time I think you said you got, like, 15 Allocated to data. Is that ratio kind of still holding? I >> still exactly the same in our tracks. On environment, they're still the same in the factory. We have more than that, depending on how many people on what time of day, what day of the week. So on a Friday race day, practice day, we can have a minimum. There'll be 30 people in our race support room will be looking at data along with those other 15. But you can have the whole Aargh department or design department or logistics. Whoever could still be looking at data from the track real time, so we can have as many as 4 to 500 looking at data if they want to. And if that's the right thing going on earlier in the season, you generally get more people looking As the season goes on. It's probably more aargh focused, maybe mechanically if we got something new, or maybe the engine division again in a completely separate building in the U. K 40 miles apart, they've got another set of people that will be looking and trolling through data riel time from the but looking really at the power unit rather than the chassis side. >> And you're generating, like roughly half a terabyte a weekend on a race weekend. Is that still about the same? Or is that growing a car >> perspective? It's just under half a terabyte, but we produce up to another half a terabyte of other supporting data with that GPS data, weather data, video, audio, whatever it would be other information to help with the strategy side of things So we're around 77 50 to 1 terabyte for race weekend, >> and each car has about 300 sensors. I think when we spoke with you last year, or maybe you're half ago is about 200 so that's increasing in terms of all the data being captured every race weekend. But one of the things that I love that matter sizes, you know, we're idea at Mercedes is not that unlike I t at other groups who really rely on high performance systems. But you do put out a new product every two weeks and this really extreme range of conditions, your product is extremely expensive as pretty sexy. Like the portability factor. You have to set up a tea shop, have any 20 weekends a year and set it up in what, 36 hours and take it down in six. >> And a nine year old joke about the taking it down in six is a bit like a Benny Hill sketch. It's obviously choreographed and, well, well rehearsed, but we have all the same systems as any normal business would have the tracks. That environment is very different, though we don't have air conditioning in so all the IittIe equipment has to work at the natural ambient air temperature of the country. We're in this year. Believe it or not, Germany and hungry have been our biggest challenge. We've had for the last 43 to 4 years because they had 45 degree air ambient air temperature. So forget humidity for a minute, which is Another kettle of fish probably affects us a bit more, maybe, than the systems, but we're only chucking that air as fast as we can across the components. So we're not putting any cooling into what is probably around the tolerance of most I T systems. So we have to rely basically on air throughput to terminate. Keep kit. Cool. Now the benefit with pure is actually doesn't create any heat, either. There's no riel heat generation, so it's quite tolerant, which helps us get it doesn't create Maur, but the environment we put it into is quite special. But what we're doing is what any business would want to do. Access toe email file systems. What we're trying to do is give it in a performance fashion. People need to make a decision. So in qualifying, for instance, those 300 sensors. That information that we've got from the car, we've got minutes to make a decision based on data. If it takes you too long to get the data off, you can't then look at the data to make a decision. So we have to make sure data in just from the car and then basically multi access from everybody in the factory or the track side is performance enough to make a decision before the car goes back out again. Otherwise, we're wasting track time. >> So you've always had data in this business. Early days was all analog, and it obviously progressed and thinking about what you want to do, Going forward with data. What kind of information or capabilities don't you have? Where that technology in the future could address >> s so interesting. One is technology of the future. If you know what it is, let me know with what we know right now, I think a lot of it's gonna be about having the ability to have persistent storage. But actually the dynamic of the compute resource eso looking at things like kubernetes or anything like that to turn around and have dynamic resource spin up as and when required to do high performance computer calculations based on the data, maybe to start giving us some automated information, I'm gonna be careful of the M l A. I is for our businesses, it's not quite as simple as others because our senior management very technically capable, and they just see it as advanced statistical analysis. So unless you program, it is not gonna give you an answer. Now we've started to see some things this year were actually the computer is teaching us things we didn't ask it to. So we have got some areas where we're beginning to learn that. That's not necessarily the case now, but for us that access to data moving forward, it's probably gonna be compute. Combined with that underlying storage platform, there's going to be critical onstage. You you heard Robin people talking about the ability to have that always present storage layer with the right computer. That's something for us is going to be critical, because otherwise we're gonna waste money and have resource sat doing nothing. >> Is security >> an issue for you? I mean, it's an issue for everybody, but there isn't a game of honor because you got this, you know, little community that you guys trying to hack each other systems. >> So it's an interesting one inside the sport, Actually, no. Because a few years ago there was a very high profile case where data went between two teams and there was £100 million fine's exclusion from the sport for a season. So that's that's >> too big. You don't mess with that. >> But also, if you think of that from our perspective, we've got the Daimler star on here. We cannot afford to have any of that Brenda brand reputational rubbing off on Damon's. So that's a no no other teams I can't talk for. But we're all fairly sensible between ourselves. What will be interesting moving forward is what technologies air in our sport, but actually of the whether their motor manufacturers or not, is their technology in there that they're interested in. Maybe the battery technology from the power unit side of things is that the power unit itself. So are other things actually more interesting to those other >> places. It legal for you, you know, by the rules of sports, a monitor, just data or captured data, whether it's visual, whatever from your competitors. Eso anything, >> this public? Yes, it's fair game. Okay, so we get given all the teams. Actually, we get a standard set of three or four different streams of information around GPS timing on some video feeds and audio feeds on their publicly consumable by the team's. When I say public for a second on those feeds, we can do what we like. You know that there for us to infer information, which we do a lot off, is what helps our strategy team to turn around and actually predict what we might or might not need to do as far as a pit stop or tire degradation. >> And that's where the human element must come into understanding the competent, like to football coaches who who know each other right? >> Well, yes. And now, if you think if you add to that the human element off Well, what happens if one team strategy person changes? Are they gonna make a different call based on the same data? Is their hunch different? Do they think they know better within a team? You can have that discussion. So what happens in another team where they're cars, not as performance so their mindset. Maybe they're thinking differently. Or maybe a team's got the most performance car of the moment and they think that they're going to do X. And we're like, Well, we're gonna do something different than to try and actually catch them out. So do we. Now don't do the normal thing. >> So let's hope >> Gamification I love it. >> Let's look at all. Make a prediction. 2019 is gonna be another Mercedes AMG way. So at the end of the season, all of the data that you have collected from the cars, all the sensors, all the weather data, GPS, et cetera how does pure facilitate in the off season the design of the 2020 car, for example, Where does where does things like computational fluid dynamics? >> Okay, so all of our production data is on pure, whether it's on a ray or blade somewhere, it's on pure storage across the site. So they're involved. Whether you're talking about design, whether you're talking about final element analysis for hyper a ll, the C f. D. Using high performance computer systems, everything some pure so from that point of view, is making sure we're using the right resource in the right place to get the best performance. Now, see if he's an interesting one because we're regulated by the F A a. About the amount of compute that weaken you. He's now. Because of that, you want it to be as efficient as you possibly can. It's not speed but the efficient use off CPU time. So if a CPU is waiting for data, that's wasted, Okay, so for us, it's trying to make sure that whole ecosystem is as efficient as we can. That's obviously an integral part of everything we do, so whether we're wind tunnel testing, whether we're in the dino, the simulators, but everything basically comes back to trying to understand and correlate the six or seven different places we generate data, trying to make sure that when there's a change in the simulator, we understand that change in the real world or in a diner or in safety. So all of that, what pure do is allow us to have that single place to go and look how I perform and always available. And for me, I don't have to have a story. Jasmine. Yeah, we've got a team of people that actually are thinking about that for us at Pure, You know, there is invested in us these days. Yeah, I walk around here, I'm very fortunate. I get to see all of the senior guys here and there. They are asking me what's going on and how's things with sequel Oracle Because they know exactly what we're doing and they're they're trying to say what's coming. So things like object engine Pierre So we've been talking to pure about using that over the coming months. But what? We're not having it at the moment. Go out and learn it. Actually, they coming in and they're telling us all about it. So they become a virtual extension to my team, which is just amazing. >> Yeah, far more efficient. You're able to focus on a much more things that drive value for the business. As we look at some of the things like the Evergreen business model. What were some of the big ah ha we hear is the right solution for us back in 2015. Is that >> so? Evergreen and love. Your stories were two things at the time that we're just incredible for us because love your storage was basically you could have an array and basically you could use it. And there was no commitment, no anything. But if you like that, you could keep it, obviously, paying for it. Ah, nde. When we did that in the factory, basically, within a week of being in there that the team were like, Whoa, hang on, that's going nowhere. So that was That was a nice, easy one. But Evergreen was an interesting one, which has only really, truly for me. I've always bought into it. But the last probably 18 months we've used it time and time and time again because the improvements with the speed of light x 90 coming envy Emmy drives. When we were looking at capacity, what we did was we turned round and said, Well, actually, we can buy more dense units in the next 90 so we're only buying the extra capacity, but we were getting new technology. So nations, all the innovation that you're putting into their products were getting it. So today, when they were talking about the memory based access, and if your things always sat there going, I can use that. Oh, and there's no there's no work for me, there's no effort. The only thing I gotta worry about is whether I've got capacity for that. Those modules to go in. So Evergreen has worked several times because I don't have to go back to the cap export and go. Could I have another x £1,000,000 please? Why? I need some more storage. Yeah, but you bought some of the other day. Yeah, well, that one. I need to get rid of it because I need a bigger one. And I don't have to do that. Now. I just go in. I'm telling them what the increases for which actually, they can choose Then if they want to increase, they know what the business benefit is rather than just I t has got to turn around and either replace it because of age or the new version doesn't support is not an uplift, not upgrade from the old. One >> I've seen was looking at some of your stats and the case study that's currently online on. Imagine these numbers have gone up 68% reduction in data center Rackspace and saving £100,000 a year and operating costs >> those that would have been probably two years ago. Ish roughly those figures. And the operating cost is a huge improvement for us. Cap Ex is probably the biggest one for me. They were moving forward with cost caps coming into Formula One. That type of thing is gonna be invaluable. Does not happen to do a forklift upgrade of your storage. Well, I wouldn't know what I would do if I had to upgrade what I now own from pure I can't even imagine what? I don't want to turn around town my bosses what that's >> gonna cost. Well, it sounds like you really attacked the op X side with R and D with pure r and D. I kind of like that shifting, you know, labor toe are Andy because you don't want to spend labour on managing storage a raise, make no sense for your business. Okay. What do you want? Pure toe spend? R and D are now, what problem can they saw for? You mean >> so racy is gonna help If I'm really honest, that's actually is gonna help fill a whole quite well for us because we weren't really sure what to put some of that less hot data we were like, Well, where we going to start to put this now? Because we were beginning to fill up the array and the blades. Actually, with a racy no, we can actually use that different class of storage actually, to keep it still online. Still be out to do some machine learning A. I in the future when that comes around. But actually I can now have Maur longevity out of my existing array and blades. So that's brilliant and coming, I think, having I need to be careful, I know some things that are coming. Uh, the active sinking array is brilliant, and we've been using that since it came out. Having that similar or same ability in Blade when it comes will be a very advantageous having those played enclosures. We've gone to multi chassis flash played over the last six weeks, so that for us is great. Once we can start to synchronize between those two, then that's ah, that's another big one for us, for resiliency, for fault, tolerance, but also workload movement. That thing I said about persistent stories, layer, I'm not gonna need to care where it is, and it will be worked out by the storage in the orchestration layer so it can have the storage in the computer in the right place. >> Wow. Great story, Matt, as always. And I think it's Pierre calls this the unfair advantage coming to life. Best of luck for the rest of the 2019 season. >> I'll take it. >> All right, We'll see you next time. >> Thank you. >> Keep before >> for David Dante. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Cure Accelerate in Austin, Texas.

>> Narrator: Live from the Bill Graham Auditorium in San Francisco, it's The Cube. Covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. Brought to you by Pure Storage. (techno music) >> Back to The Cube, we are live at Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. We are in San Francisco at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium. This is a really cool building built in 1915, loads of history with artists. I'm with Dave Vellante. I'm wearing prints today in honor of the venue and we're excited to be joined by longtime Pure Storage customer Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport head of IT Matt Harris. Matt, it's great to see you again. >> Hey, good up, good morning I should say. >> I think it is still morning somewhere. (laughter) >> So, Matt, you know, for folks who aren't that familiar with Formula One one of the things, you know I'm a fan. It's such a data intense sport. You've got to set up a data center 21 times a year, across the globe, with dramatically different weather conditions, humidity, etc. Give our viewers an idea of your role as head of IT and what it is that your team needs to enable the drivers to do? >> Okay, so in general terms, we're but like any other normal business around the world. Yeah we have huge amounts of data created depending on what your company is doing. Ours comes from two cars going around the track. That is the lifeblood of our of our work, our day work, and all that data is always analyzed to work out how we can improve the car. But what we really have is an infrastructure the same as many other companies. We have some slight differences as you say. We go to 21 countries. In those countries we turn around and we have 36 hours roughly to put everything together in a different world, different place and then everybody turns up and uses it as though it's a branch office. A hundred people roughly sat there working in the normal environment. We use it for five days and then we take it apart in six hours, put it in two boxes, take it to another country, and we do the same thing again. We do that 21 times. Sometimes back-to-back, sometimes with a week in between. Week in between is quite easy. Back to back sometimes we go from Canada maybe all the way across the world from Monaco within the space of a week so if we've got the flights in the way and everything else and we also end up having to an engineer a car, run a car around the track, and hopefully win races. >> So, you basically got a data kit that you take around with you. >> Yeah. >> And then what did you do before you had this capability? Was it just gut feel? Was it finger in the wind? >> Um, so. For about 15 years, we've been running what everybody's classes and Internet of Things we've been doing for about 15-20 years the car. It's got around these days around 300 sensors on it. Without those sensors realistically we'll be running the car blind and we probably couldn't even start the car let alone actually run it these days or improve things. We turn around and we're always ingesting data from the cars real-time. That real-time data actually we transfer to the garage. That's no problem at all but we also bring it back to the factory because we're limited on the number of people that are allowed to travel with the team. So, we're physically only allowed to take 60 people. Rules tell us we can only take 60 people to work on the car. Now of those, around about 15 are probably looking at data. We're generating around about half a terabyte per race weekend these days and 15 people, it's not enough eyes realistically to turn around and look at all that data all the time. So we take it back to the UK and in the UK, again, we have anywhere between another 30 and maybe 800 staff will be looking at that data to help analyze particularly on a Friday. Friday is about running the car and learning. We discussed a few minutes ago, what's the weather like? What are the tires like? What's the track like? Has there been any change in track? Has it been resurfaced? What's going on with the car compared to what we think is its optimum? And on a Friday's iterative change and learning about tire degradation, tire life, tire wear, the weather conditions, how they're going to interact with the car, all based on data. The interesting thing for me has always been that we have all this data but the two drivers in the car are the biggest sensor for us. They turn around and tell us how they felt. When they were going round corners, Was it good, bad, indifferent? But as soon as they tell us something, we always go to data. We've taken their interpretation of how their body felt, we turn around and then look at the data to prove what they've told us. So, an interesting anecdote very quickly. last year in Singapore, Valtteri was going across the bridge and he said he could feel that the throttle felt like it was cutting and we couldn't see in data and we were looking and looking and eventually he said, "No, it absolutely happens every time I cross the bridge." and they found a 20 millisecond gap in throttle application basically because there was a magnetic field that the bridge was creating so a sensor was actually cutting the throttle. he could feel it. we could fit that eventually see in data, shielded the sensor, everybody's happy. so you go from the human being could feel a 20th, a 20 millisecond gap in throttle application for us finding in data, engineering a solution, and changing things. >> So, the human's still a critical part of? (crosstalk) >> So, where does Pure Storage fit into this whole thing? and give us the before and after on that. >> So, three years ago we started working with Pure because I have two different solutions. one in the track and one in the factory. one in the track realistically I have some constraints around space, power, heat. that most people would love to take the racks as we were talking about we take around the world, they would love to leave in a nice air-conditioned computer room and just leave it there all year. we move it around but that rack of information we have to spend $298 per kilo to transport IT equipment around, well any equipment, around the world. So, we've got tons of equipment that we take around the world. it's thousands and thousands of pounds of freight cost. So, we went from forty U of old-school spinning disk, lots of complexity in cabling, administration, down to 2-3 U and 20 arrays. Now, they're more heat tolerant. I have two power cables in each and two network cables so complexity is gone. it just works. It's heat tolerant. it doesn't create a lot of heat so I haven't got the added issue of that. it's not using a huge amount of power so my UPS solution has to be smaller. so everything just got smaller, cheaper. really simply at the track, we improve the performance for everybody. from an IT point of view, we got very, very simple. incredibly easy to look after and manage but it's very reliable and performant at the same time. we then went to the factory where I've got 800 people looking at data. the problem is when a car goes round and we offload it, there's one single file. we haven't got this distributed amount of data that everybody. so you got one file that everybody's trying to open, old-school discs, you've now got contention for that one file that everybody's opening. So, people would come back from the track and go, "Why is it so slow to open information in the factory compared to at the track?" Trying to explain to them contention of data in those days was a little bit difficult but now we have 800 people that don't need to care and why that matters for us is decision making. So, if you think about qualifying, those that don't understand Formula One, we have three sessions of qualifying and the car goes out roughly two times in each qualifying session with around about a couple of minute gap in between the times the car goes out. that couple of minutes is about changing the car to be optimal for the next run. if it takes you minutes and minutes to offload data, open the data, review the information that the driver told you, and make a change, you can't go back out a second time. So, everything is about optimal performance for those engineers to optimize the performance of the car. what we are able to do now is to turn around and make sure that we're making correct decisions because rather than data taking two or three minutes to open, it's in seconds instead. So, you can look at the data, make an informed decision, change the car, hopefully improve every time the car goes out. >> One of the things, Matt, that Charlie Giancarlo, the CEO of Pure Storage, said this morning during the keynote was that less than half a percent of data in the world is analyzed. talk to us about what Pure Storage is able to facilitate for your team to be able to analyze that data. how much of that data are you able to analyze? and talk to us about the speed criticality. >> Yeah, okay, so, and quite a lot of the work over the previous probably 10 or 15 years has been very human centric. So, it's what data I know I need to go and look at to understand to be able to compute, to turn around and maybe infer information from to be able to make a better decision. So, strategy is probably one of the best places these days where the data that we're learning all the time. we have data about ourselves but we also have data about the other teams. those teams have the same data about us as well, your GPS data, timing data, so we know what's going on so we can infer information on a competitor as well as ourselves. tire degradation, tire wear, tire life, all things that you can infer that mean that you were mentioning earlier on about a pit stop. if a safety car comes out should you pick, shouldn't you pick. those decisions are now based on accurate data about whether we think competitor will pit, whether we think the competitors tires will last, can we overtake that competitor? because actually the track does or doesn't allow overtaking. So, lots of decisions made real-time based on exactly what's happening now but inferred from previous races and we're always learning all the time. everything is about the previous races. information we're learning every time. >> and how much of that heavy lifting of that data is machines versus humans. Are the machines increasingly, I don't want to say making the decisions, but helping? >> Yes, so, we're not in a position at the moment where the machines are making decisions. they're helping us to be informed, to visualize. Yeah, we work with the likes of TIBCO as well as Pure and other partners or sponsors that we have where they turn around and actually they help us to visualize that data. the problem we've got at the moment is we're still looking at all the data. where we really want to get to is looking at exceptions. So, actually the norm, don't show us that data. we don't need to know, don't need to care. >> Want the outliers. >> we want the outliers that. our problem though is that our car changes every time it goes out. So, an outlier could be because we've made a change. So, now you've got to still have some human that's helping at moto. we're trying to understand how we can use machine learning techniques. in certain places we can so image recognition and another bits and piece like that we can actually start to take advantage of but decisions necessarily around configuration and the next change to the car at the moment it's still indicators given to us by simulation and then a human at the end of the day is making the decision. >> and the data that you talked about that is on your competitors, is that a shared data source or is that but it is. >> Yeah. >> everybody shares the same data. >> every car has a transponder on it. basically it's GPS with longitude, latitude, and all sorts but incredibly accurate. if you consider the cars are doing 200 mile-an-hour, we have an accuracy of around about it's less than 10 centimeters accuracy at 200 miles per hour. Now, if you think of your GPS on your phone, you struggle to know whether you're on the right street sometimes. >> but your differentiation there is your your speed at which you can analyze the data, your algorithms, your skill sets you're telling. and then obviously we're here at Pure there's a component of that speed which is Pure. aren't you worried that your competitors are going to get your secrets or is everybody in the track use Pure Storage? >> everybody is turning around and using their own methodologies, their main, their own software. the thing for us at the moment is to make sure that we keep the really secret things ourselves, our IP sensitive, keep those to ourselves. So, what we do with our storage people know about and other teams are copying and seeing the advantages of Pure as well as some of the other tools and partners we partner with. the benefit of us though is that we have a partnership with Pure not just a purchasing so we work, we've known about some of the products. So, flash blade we knew about a long time before it was released. Yeah, we work with the team on what's coming. we know some of the advances in the technology before it's live and that's critical for us because we can get a stick, a march on everybody else even if we're six months ahead of somebody else on a technology or a way of doing something, six months is a long time in F1. >> Yeah. >> sorry Dave, I was going to say, Pure calls this the unfair advantage. (laughter) and you are, Mercedes has last fall won the fourth consecutive Constructors Championship. Coincidence, I don't know, but talk to us about this symbiotic relationship. are you also able to help influence the design of the technologies at Pure? >> Yeah, so, and I wouldn't say that we help design necessarily but they'll take into consideration our requirements and our wishes. like a number of other people that will be here, you've heard other people talking on stage and we'll always be talking about what we would like to be doing, what we could be doing if we had, I don't know, some new technology whether it's s3 connectivity to the flash blade, s whether it's NFS, whether it's SIF, whatever that would be, the containerization of them, the storage front end, whatever that would be we're always talking about how we can work with the Pure Storage to improve what we're doing. so that ideally I take out the way of the business. my ideal is that IT's not seen, it's not heard, and it just works. obviously in IT that's not always the case but. >> I want to unpack something you said earlier. you said it was I believe two or three years ago, three years ago that you brought in Pure and you had substantial performance improvement. I talk to a lot of customers and what they'll typically do in that situation is they'll compare what they saw in 2015 with what they replaced which was probably a five or eight year old array. true in your case or not? if it is true, which I suspect it is, it had to be something else that led you to Pure because you could have bought the incumbents all flash array and got you know much better performance. What, first of all true or not? and what was it that led you to Pure to switch from the incumbent which is not trivial? >> So quickly and was it five or eight year old hardware? in some places yes, some places no. So, it wasn't, we took a decision to take a step back and look at storage from a different standpoint because we just kept adding more discs to try and get around an issue, you know, and we've got a fairly strange data model to compute. we don't need much compute, we need lots of storage. so some of the models that were talked about on stage where I need, you know, Matt Baer was talking about the fact of I want some more storage, you need to buy some more compute and that was just so annoying for us. so there was different reasons but the end goal, you're quite right, performance. Yeah, we could have got it probably from anywhere and being brutally honest lots of other technologies could give the performance 'cause we don't give that level of performance maybe if your a service now or a big financial institution, we've got data, it's important. we've got critical time scales to open and save data, okay critical to us as far as erasing, but what was important for me was simplicity. Absolutely, now we got other benefits. the Evergreen model was brilliant for us but simplicity was critical. we had a storage guy that was spending his life managing storage. nobody manages storage now. they turn around and they go into Vmware. they want a new VMware server, they just spin it up, and the disk is associated. we don't have to think about it. you don't have that storage specialist any longer. Yeah, we started working with other partners, you know, Rubric for instance, integration with them, the Pure arrays as well, again enabling us to get out the way and not having to worry about backup. traditionally or we'd headed a guy that was always changing tape. I saw on the slide several time today about tape archive, I'm going I never want to see a tape archive. I just don't care about it any longer. I just want to be able to turn around and give the business, the SLAs they want on the their data and then not care about it. Also, can I then still turn around and mine that data in those archive or backup, not back up bin, the archive location? So, there's huge differences but simple is the best thing for me. we could have a small IT team that we have to look after a huge amount of kit and if it's complex it's just I can't employ the right people. >> Simplicity, performance, portability, you mentioned integration. you've got a big partner ecosystem here that. >> Yeah. >> So, having the ability to integrate seamlessly with Rubric, TIBCO, Satirize Key. >> and yeah for us, the partners are extension of the team. my team in particular because I can't turn around and just keep adding staff. we have to look after the day-to-day and keep the lights on but I can't just keep adding staff to look after a new technology. it needs to look after itself so the simplicity is absolutely. performance was a sort of a no-brainer. evergreen was a brilliant one for us because just not having to do those forklift upgrades. I think in the three years, we've gone from M450s to M70s, we've gone from M20s to M50s, M50R2s. we've done all of these. I've been stood on stage before in a day when we've been doing an upgrade during the time I've been stood on stage. You know and so people talk about the forklift upgrade, I don't have to worry about it, it doesn't happen. >> totally non-disruptive. >> Yeah, yeah. >> you do change out the controllers right? >> Yeah, so we change out controllers. we've done all sorts, we've gone from capacity upgrade so complete shells of discs and completely different on from I can't remember the exact size from two terabyte to three terabyte drives, new controllers to give us the new functionality with the nvme and all during the day. we don't do it out of hours. there's a lot of the business a scared stiff when we turn around the wisp and they go oh no no no but we're running the winds on low. we're doing this CFD, we go doesn't matter zero downtime no matter zero no planned. obviously no one play it's planned? >> Yes, it's planned downtime but the user doesn't see it they no performance no downtime no nothing that's Nevada for RIT. Yeah, well it means I don't have to keep asking people to do long shifts through the night to do a simple upgrade what should be a simple your weekends are nice back hopefully we end up with we end up racing those unfortunately okay but that's the fun stuff yeah for those who aren't that familiar was Formula One I encourage you to check it out it's one of the coolest strategic sports that is really fueled by technology it's amazing without technology honestly the cars wouldn't be anywhere near their what they are today and IT systems go we underpin everything that the company does nobody really wants to say that I t's the lifeblood of the company they don't but we need to be able to deliver and actually let the business actually take on new technologies new techniques and get out the way so we've got a huge amount of work a lot of what Charlie said on stage earlier on I've been having conversations with the guys here about autonomous data centers immutable infrastructure it's critical for us to go out the way and allow business to if they want some new VMs new storage it just happens not not need a person to be in the way make it sound so simple well you one of your primary sensors Lewis Hamilton is currently in in the number one position battery talked to us in third Monaco coming up this weekend introduction of a new hyper soft tire some pretty exciting stuff yeah so the hope of soft tires going to be interesting first race with it before the Monaco track yeah so and they originally designed it for Monaco I believe it will go to another race as well in the short term but we didn't even run it in winter testing earlier in the year so the first time we ran it was actually Barcelona test last week I've actually heard nothing about it so I don't know whether it's good bad or indifferent I don't know what's going to happen but it's going to be an interesting week because it's a very different track to where we've been to so far traditionally some of the other teams are quite strong there so the this weekend's going to be an interesting one to see where we end up Monica is always exciting grace Matt thanks so much for stopping by the cube and sharing with us what you're doing and how you're enabling technology to drive the Sportage no comatose again I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Volante live at pure storage accelerate 2018 we were at the Bill Graham Civic I'm Prince for the day stick around Dave and I will be right back with our next guest

>> Welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Mountain View, CA at Knightscope, a really interesting company that's making autonomous vehicles. They're not cars, they're robots, and they're for security. And they're deployed and they're in use, I think it's 15 states or 14 states all over the country, just closed a huge round of funding. A lot of great momentum, and we're really excited to be rejoined by Cube alumni Mercedes Soria, she is the VP Software Engineer. Mercedes, great to see you again. >> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, well thanks. We had you at the studio last time so thanks for having us over here where all the action's happening. >> Yeah, you're welcome to come anytime. >> So for the people that missed the first interview, just give them a quick overview of what Knightscope's all about. >> We build autonomous security robots. Those are machines, they are running around autonomously, collecting video, collecting signals like thermal signals, the signal from your phone, and collecting a bunch of information that then is transformed into a webpage that a customer can see. So they get alerts to anything that is out of the ordinary. >> So, the application is often in a mall, or in a parking lot or some of these types of places where it's really an ongoing patrol that the robot does. >> Yeah typically what you want a robot to do is the monotonous work. So, at a mall, the security guard walks around all day long, and most of the time nothing happens. So when something happens, only then you want to be notified. Otherwise, it's just a guard that walks around. So that's the job that the autonomous robots do. >> And is there somebody monitoring all of the sensors and stuff all the time, or is it more of an alert system, or is it kind of all over the map? >> It depends on our client. For example, we always monitor all the robots. We get alert systems set up so if anything happens to a robot, we will be notified. But on top of that, some of our customers like to see their video 24 hours a day to see what's going on at their facilities. Some other clients only want the security presence, so they don't look at video. It really just depends on what the client wants. >> What's the big difference by having a Knightscope robot versus just security cameras that are just pointing and on all the time. >> If you have a steady camera, by default it just doesn't move, so you can't cover that much space. You're only going to see that one box that the security camera is covering. With an autonomous machine, you can take it wherever the crime is happening; you see something is wrong, you move the machine over and you take a closer look. So it does a lot more than just this one square that you can look at all the time, you can see everything around the machine, it's 360 degree video that is running 24-7. >> And how does it impact the way that the security people do their job? Let's stick with the mall example. When you've introduced a Knightscope robot, what's the right word, is robot the right word, is it robot? >> It's a robot, yes. >> When you've introduces a Knightscope robot into a mall situation, how does that change the way that people do their jobs? >> The robot will do about 70 or so percent of what a security guard does. But now the guard, instead of having to go and walk around the mall all day long, they get to do a more interesting job So now they're more interested in robots, they know technology, they get to know how to deal with a machine, how to interact with people. Those are things of a higher level. If the machine does all of the monotonous and boring work that the guard does. So at the end of the day, that guard does something that is a lot higher level than what they were doing before. >> Do customers typically have fewer guards, the guards just doing more higher-value, how does it impact their whole security system once they bring in a Knightscope robot? >> It could be one of two things. There are some places that our customers have zero, zero, zero patrolling, so they have nothing. So in that case, if the robot comes in, now you have security that you didn't have before. Some of our other clients, they decide that one of the robots is going to do the job of maybe three people, but those three people now are doing administrator work. So their work is to become of a higher level, so it depends on the client a lot. >> We've got a bunch of the robots behind us here in the shop, I'm sure we'll have them in the intro packet, the different ones. You've got four different ones. First off let's do some of the basics: What are some of the sensors, what are some of the inputs that they are collecting, and why do you have four different ones? >> A lot of why we have four ones is because we wanted to give the customer security regardless of their environment. The first one is the K3, that's an indoor machine; it's a smaller size, it weighs about 340 pounds. >> Small one and you say it weighs 340 pounds? >> Yes, that's the small one. >> No little kids are running up and tipping that one over I don't think. >> No, they're not. People have tried, but not yet. That is for indoors. It has all of the sensors that our other machines have, they all have a thermal detection. They have their regular cameras. They have inertia measuring units. They have lighters, which is what allows you to tell that there is something in your way, that you have to get out of the way. We have ASD, which is Automated Signal Detections. Your phone emits a signal when it's trying to connect to Wifi. We can detect all of those phone signals, and then we can log that into the server. All of the machines have that, it's just how they are using in a different environment. Indoor for the K3, outdoor for the K5, we have the K1, which is a static unit. That's typically going to be put in the door of the places we're going to monitor. And then we have the K7, which is the largest unit that we have so far, and it's going to places that a machine that's smaller cannot typically transverse. >> So that's the one that looks like a little Jeep back here. >> Yeah, in a wind farm, in a solar farm, these machines don't do very well, and that's when these machines go in. >> So definitely for outside >> Outside-- >> On the road, in the dirt >> Large companies-- >> It doesn't have to be in a parking lot, in a paved environment. >> Gravel, any different type of environment. >> What is the experience, why do these things work? Is it just because you have more coverage because you've got a robot that's going places you don't have enough guards? Is it the intimidation that someone is watching me now, you're bringing a camera into the parking lot where maybe it was kind of hidden behind a little wall? Is there a two-way interaction, do people talk to these things and expect them to talk back? Where do you see the most effective, why are these things effective? >> The reason why they're more effective can be summarized in one point: Security guards don't like to do their job. There is a 300% turnover rate in the security industry, people don't normally know that. So you're getting a new team every four months. People don't like their job, it's a job that is very monotonous, very boring. We're putting a robot there to do the same job, so you can free people to do something of a higher level. And that's the main reason why they work. >> I wonder if you can speak a little to where you're using machine learning and some of the deeper technology beyond simply putting a camera on a mobile platform. >> Some of our customers, for example, at night at the malls or corporate campuses, there isn't supposed to be anyone there at night. So one of the big applications that we have is we have an image, and from that image we can train our algorithms to detect people in that image, to detect faces in that image. All of that is done by machine learning. Because we have five years of data of images and people and we train our algorithms to say, this is a pole, or this is a person, this is a tree, this is a person. So we get to detect people in a really high accuracy level, about 80%. We also do the same thing with license plates. We train our algorithms to detect that there's a license plate in an image, you detect that there's a car first, then you detect that there's a license plate, and from there you detect all of the character in that license plate. And all of that uses machine learning, even to differentiate that there is a number one opposed to a letter L. All of that had to be trained as the technologies that we're using. For the future, we're going to use prediction algorithms in the way that, now we have data of what happens around the location where the machine is deployed to. We're going to be able to say, "Okay, this area has a lot of crime that happens "on a daily basis or however often, "you probably should go patrol over in that area." That is what we will do in the future. >> The other interesting thing is you don't sell these, these are not for sale as like, going to buy a car, you actually provide it as a service. So a very different business model, very much in line with what we see more and more, it's a service, people basically rent the robot with the monitoring service? Is that accurate, or are there lots of different flavors that they can buy? >> What we do is called machine as a service. To eliminate our customers having to pay a big amount of money at the beginning, they don't cover that cost, we do. But they pay us a monthly bill. Included in that monthly bill is the machine itself, all the parts, the monitor in there with the one on our end, all of the software upgrades, which we do every two weeks, and all of the hardware upgrades, which we do every six months to every year. All of that is included in that package. How the customers chooses to monitor their machines, that is up to them. We have agreements with two of the largest security guard companies: Securitas and Allied Universal, so they can do the monitoring for the customer if they don't have a security operation center. >> Clearly, you're operating in places where they already have security in place, they have systems, so do you integrate with the existing alert systems and the existing infrastructure they already have in place, do you guys just tie into that? I would imagine there's some industry APIs that you can feed into those systems or is it a completely independent monitoring that they have to do now? >> We did a little bit of the reverse of that, we built our system for it to be integrable. The way we wrote our code, a customer system developer can call our APIs and get the information from the machine that way, so all of that is finished so they can integrate with us opposed to us integrating the other, there's hundreds of systems out there. So if somebody wants to look at data from Knightscope that's already there. >> But you've got the open API into your data feed so they can feed whatever system. >> It of course is secure, you have to have keys and passwords and codes, and all of the information is encrypted So there's measurements that we've taken to make sure that the information is secure at all times. >> So you're a hardware company, you're a software company, you're a services company, you're doing AI. >> Woman: We're doing design too. >> And design, and autonomous vehicles. >> Yes. >> What did I miss? >> Production! We build. >> Production too? >> We build. Yes. >> That's right, I noticed this says on the bottom, reminds me of an Apple product-- >> It is designed and built in California. 85% of what you see in this machine is United States. >> Pretty amazing. So what's next? What's the next big challenge? I know the Seven is not released yet, is it just more form factors, is it different sensors? As you kind look forward from an engineering challenge, what is some of the next big hills that you guys want to take to move this thing along? >> The three next big hills that we have: Number one is getting the K7 out there and patrolling. Number two is concealed weapon detection, that has been requested by a lot of our customers. >> Concealed weapons detection? >> A lot of our customers are requesting that. And third, on the software side of things, the actual prediction of crime that could potentially happen. Those are the next three big goals for Knightscope. >> I would imagine that with the concealed weapons it's just more types of sensors that can see X-rays or whatever to get more visibility. >> Yes. >> The big V. Not necessarily visible light, but visibility from the machine. >> Some of those things have already been requested by our customers, because what we've build is actually a platform. We can add other sensors to the machine depending on the needs of a customer. For example, we have a customer who wanted the machine to be able to identify people, so they wouldn't have to swipe a card. Put the sensor inside, it's accessible, it's already there, you get your sensor and your information. What's the biggest surprise that you hear from customers after they've had one of these deployed for, I don't know what's a reasonable time, six months, so they're kind of used to it in their workflow, how does it really their world, what do they tell you? >> There are two things, number one is how quickly people like the machine, how quickly they go, "Oh, yeah, it's here and it's working." And then also how much crime has actually been eliminated. They thought, "Okay, maybe I have one break-in into "a car every week, well maybe it will just go to less." It goes down to zero. There's people who had lots of crime, and just by the machine being there, they get nothing, they get zero. So that was our surprise for them, and that was a surprise for us as well. That's how the effective the machine actually is. >> It's weird when I just drove up today, there was one right in the middle of the driveway as I was coming in. I was like, "Is it going to move, am I going to move?" It's very, much more intimidating than you might think. It's a presence, for sure. >> Yeah, and we have things like car backup detection, because the machine could be going down the street, and a car could be coming out of there, so we have to detect stuff like that so we don't get run over. All of those little things that we can think of, we have to do that a lot. >> Alright Mercedes, well thanks for inviting us over, it's fun to actually see the machines for real. >> Thank you so much for coming. >> She's Mercedes, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE, we're at Knightscope in Mountain View, California. (upbeat music)

(upbeat techno music) >> And welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're having a CUBE Conversation in our Palo Alto Studios. We're excited to have our next guest, who is an ABIE award winner from the Grace Hopper Celebration. Would've been competing in early October, we tried to get her on then, schedules didn't mesh so it took us a few months, but we're really excited to have our next guest. She's Mercedes Soria, she is a VP of Software Engineering for Knightscope. Mercedes, welcome. >> Thank you, thank you, I am so happy to be here. >> Absolutely, so, congratulations again on your award of leadership and part of the winnings of that is you got to keynote in front of 18,000 people. So A, What was your impression of Grace Hopper and B, how did you like keynoting in front of 18,000 folks? >> Yes, how was Grace Hopper, it was a huge community of women in technology. I was so excited to be there, everybody was just looking up to women, everybody was trying to help each other. How do you go forward in your career, and I was really focused on STEM careers, which is one of my passions. So I was so glad to be there. And how it was to keynote in front of 18,000 people, so I hadn't done that before, so I can check it off my bucket list, that was one thing. And it was amazing, there were so many women who just clapped and they just kept supporting it and I had to stop several times while I was giving the speech, so it was once in a lifetime opportunity that I'm very grateful for. >> It's an amazing accomplishment, again, congratulations, and it's amazing show, if you haven't been to Grace Hopper, you have to sign up, how fast you say it sold out? >> Mercedes: 25 minutes. >> 25 minutes, oh. Go to anitaborg. or anitab.org now, that's right, they changed the URL, yeah, I'll have to check it out. So let's jump in about Knightscope. So for the people who aren't familiar, go the website, knightscope.com, a bunch of really cool fun stuff, tell us about what Knightscope's all about. >> So Knightscope is a company that is trying to cut the crime cost to the US in half. So most people don't know that the US spends about one trillion dollars a year just to deal with crime in the US, so our goal at Knightscope is to cut that in half with the use of new technologies like artificial intelligence, machine learning, and robotics. A group is software plus hardware plus humans, so we take the good things that humans do, which is make strategic decisions, the good things that machines do, which is do the monotonous work and store data for a very long time, and we combine those to try to help with crime. >> Right, so that's a nice explanation. The short answer is, if you go to the website, it's all rolled up into these cool robots that look like C-3PO, and I'm wondering if there's a little man inside there, but we'll get into that later. But I think it's a really interesting concept because you are bringing together many of the hot topics in technology right now, so one of'em just with robotics. You got these robots of various shapes and sizes, but as you said, really, it's the synergy of the robots with the people that give kind of a one plus one makes three effect. How is it, where are those points of intersection, and how does the robot help the human do a better job, and how does the human help the robot do a better job? >> So the robot helps the human because, in this case, security guards have to walk around the same places all day long, right, they have their route, they do that all day long and they get very, very bored, and they get to the point where they don't care anymore and they just scan a badge and then that is the job, right? So that's what the robots do, which is, they don't mind going around the same area all day long, recording data, recording video. That's where the synergy is. Now what the robots, at this point, can do is make a decision in terms of, okay, I have this five things, should I make an alarm to my supervisor and say a guard needs to come. The robot only provides information, so all of that information that we provide is so the human can make a decision on what to do next. >> And does it feed into, I mean obviously these are big security systems that already exist inside these big buildings and these big facilities. Does your robot tie back into those facilities, is it a different layer on top of it, how does it work with the existing security infrastructure that's already in place? >> So the existing security infrastructure is a bit separate at this time. There is a project that we're working on in terms to integrate because there's so many security systems out there, for a start up like us, we need to be very smart in terms of where we spend our resources. So we got to do studies and figure out which were the better senders, the better companies that we need to partner with to do that. But at this point, it's a separate tool, so you open it and all the gear you need is a current browser, you can open it from anywhere in the world, and your security people can look at all the data the machine has collected. >> Right, so the other interesting piece that you're tying together via these machines is really this combination of AI and ML, artificial intelligence, machine learning, but also your background is in user interface, so it can't just be happening in the background because these machines need to do their job, executing through and with people, on the UI side and the security guards and the security infrastructure behind them. So as you've introduced more AI and machine learning into the software components that you can drive the UI, how is that changing the world, how is the UI world changing because now you've got so much more data and so much more kind of compute behind that before it even gets to the actual user that's interfacing with it? >> Yeah so the UI's a little more rich these days, it used to be a webpage and HTML and JavaScript page, and that's all it did, right, but now we have a lot more information that we can provide. For example, we have machine learning algorithms that detect if there's people in an image, so I don't only tell you this is my video, but I also give you a picture of the person that I just saw, and then I tell you, hey, this is what I saw. It makes your experience a lot more incursive. >> Right, and another potential integration point, right obviously with photos in the security system for IDs and passes and all those things. >> Yeah, even face detection at some point as well is very important for us. >> Now you have four different models, why do you have so many models, what's the use cases that would drive you to have four different models? Hard to support four models instead of one as a startup. >> Yeah so our customers have very different needs. Crime doesn't happen just in a shopping mall, crime happens at PG&E offices, it happens at the mall, it happens at different locations, it could be outside, it could be inside, it could be in a hospital, it can be in a parking lot, so what we tried to do was to cover all of those potential places where crime will be. So with that we have four products; we have the K5, which is our first product. It goes into ADA compliant environments like hospitals and data centers, it's a big robot and mainly used for things like a parking lot to detect license plates, to make sure that it's monitoring all the outside. Our second product is the K3 which is a smaller machine, and what it does is mainly goes inside, it can go through a door and it can do things like monitoring who's at the office at night, raising an alert if there was a fire, stuff that happens inside. We have the K7 which goes to outside places where you have things like speed bumps, you have different kind of terrain, gravel or other type. And then the K1 which is our static model that what we're working on that for the future is to have concealed weapon detection at that point, which is something that is very useful for places that have, like for hospitals, when somebody comes in, they want to be able to know if these people are armed. >> Right, I'm just curious if you can share where customers have seen the most impact, the most benefit by using one of your robots. What specific behaviors have just been a game changer when they put in the Knightscope robot? >> Yeah, so I can't tell you the actual customer, that is something >> No, no, that's okay. >> That we can't say, but I would tell you one example. We have, for example, a hospital and this place is open 24/7, obviously the emergency room, and when they will have, it's down in LA, so they will have at least one break-in every week at the parking lot. So we put our machines there and the past seven months that they have been there, they got zero, they got no break-ins. And the nurses now feel safer going to their cars, people feel safer going there at night, so that is one example. We also had an example of a shopping mall where there was a guy who was basically exposing himself and nobody could catch him because he would drive, as soon as he saw a security guard, he would drive out. So we were able to catch that person as well. There are some people to steal merchandise, so they came, they stole something, they left, and the very next day, they come back and they try to sell this back to the mall people, so by seeing who these people are then determining that they came back to the mall, we were able to apprehend them as criminals. >> Right, on the first example, on the parking lot example, does the robot have active deterrents that it can do, can it sound alarms, light lights, to make people feel safer in a parking lot, that's very different than just monitoring things? >> Yeah so what the robot does is, it has a sound that it's all day it's playing that sound, there's a lot of lights, the lights change color based on what's happening around the robot. Another thing that we have that helps a lot of people feel safe, we have a push-to-talk functionality, so if you were feeling something was wrong at night, you can push that button and you can directly talk to the people at the security operation center. They can walk you through what to do, they can follow you while you go to your car, there's different functionality that we have that helps people feel that they're safe outside. >> Right, and on the shoplifting one, it's interesting 'cause lots of stores have cameras, right, that's not a new thing. So what did your system do differently that the regular camera that they had in there before probably would've filmed the person but didn't necessarily wasn't firing off the alert, recognizing they were back again, did somebody go in and manually type in this particular person's a shoplifter. How did you guys take it to a much different level than just kind of a static security cam? >> So the main thing that you should keep in mind for static cameras is there's always black spots, blind spots, there's no way that they can see everything, and mainly you have cameras inside of the shops, you don't have them outside, so what we did is, we not only saw that we not only got the video of the person inside of the shop, but we saw them when they came outside, we saw them when they were moving, all of this is recorded in video and that we can then match them and see the people who were. Another thing that we do that cameras don't do is we can detect your mobile devices, anything that has that's looking for a network, we can identify that device, and that is always for you and that is always for that device, so we can match those devices when they come in. >> You shouldn't have waited this long but one of the most interesting things about the company and what you guys do, and it's highlighted by what you just said, is the way you go to market. People are not buying these robots, right, you offer the robots as a service, so really interesting model and really brings up interesting things like you said where you can do all kinds of software upgrades, you can do hardware upgrades, you can do all types of changes to the actual unit that the customer just benefits, it's a classic SAS model. So how did you get to that stage and how do people like having, now, kind of a simple monthly payment with all the upgrades and constant, I would imagine, a lot of upgrades coming pretty consistently? Pretty interesting way to go to market, how's that received in the market? >> It's very well, people really accepted, especially when it's new technology. We decided from the beginning that we wanted to be, to own the whole technology stack, and even the robot itself because we knew there would be a lot of upgrades, we knew there would be changes and we wanted to serve our customers in the very best way that was possible. So to help people adopt new technology, we help them with how do they perceive it on a daily basis. If you come to somebody and says they want you to buy a hundred thousand dollar robot, uh, you don't know what that's going to be, but if you said, I charge you ten dollars an hour and give you a robot, that not only changes software every other week, it changes hardware every six months, and you have whatever robot will fit your needs the best. People are really accepting of that model, to the point that all the companies are jumping into the same thing. >> It's really interesting because then it begs where you guys will develop as a company, you know, are you are robotics company, are you a software company, are you a software monitoring company, do you become really a security AI company that pulls from lots of different data and lots of different sources? It really opens up a broad range of opportunities for you guys in which you want to go or where you find your most expertise or where the market takes you. Pretty exciting way to go to market. >> Yeah so what we decided to was we wanted to be the Apple of security guards, so what Apple does is they have their software, their hardware, they own all of it, and therefore they have a very loyal following. We want to be that for security guards, so we own the whole environment, we make changes when we wanted to, and then we go to market that way. >> Okay, that's a great story and again it's knightscope.com, they're fun pictures for one, but it's a great story. But before I let you go, Telly would not be happy if I didn't take a few minutes to talk about your journey. How did you get here, VP of Software Engineering? You know, software's eating the world, it's a great place to be, you've got a solutions based system, but really it's a bunch of metal wrapped up with software inside. So how did you get here, and I wonder if you can share a little bit of your journey to become VP of Software Engineering? >> Yeah so I'm an immigrant, I'm not from the US. I was born South America, and when you're in South America and somebody tells you, hey there's an opportunity for you to go study in the US, you take that opportunity. So I came to the US to study for college, I had a Bachelors in Computer Science and then a Masters in Computer Science. >> Where did you go to school? >> I went to Middle Tennessee State University, and like I said, when somebody tells you, you're going to the US, you don't ask questions, you just go. >> So who made you that offer, how did that come about? >> My university in Ecuador, where I was from, they had an agreement with the university in Tennesee. So they would send students back and forth in an exchange program. >> So you're a good student, they identified you as having great potential and you got picked for that program? >> So 5,000 people apply for 20 spots when I applied. >> Wow. >> So 20 of us came, and out of the 20, the only two people who are staying in the US, my sister and I, we're twins, I have a twin sister. >> 'Cause you ask your sister for support, maybe? Twin sister. >> If I really, it probably had a lot to do with it. And then with technology, I found my way into Knightscope, and Knightscope is a really good company for women in technology specifically, and that is some of the work that I pushed myself to do. Our women in technology numbers are about 25% to 28% of the company which is a huge number for Silicon Valley. So we hire women, we try to mentor them, I myself take time to spend time with them, and then help them get a career that they're excited about. >> And when did you discover your affinity for computer science? It's always a great debate as to when is the best time, or when is the optimal time, or the most popular time for young girls and eventually young women to get involved in STEM? What was your experience? >> So I live with my uncle in Ecuador and my mother, so I always knew I wanted to do something structured, and at the beginning, he was an architect, so I thought I would be an architect, but then I started reading some science fiction books and the closest thing for me to science fiction, making that a reality, was a career in computer science and technology. So that's how I started, and that has led me to, now, Knightscope, and we're doing the most advanced technology that is out there, we're out there with artificial intelligence, we have machine learning, all of the technologies that are out there, robotics, we are using them to put them to use for the greater good. Our job is to keep America safe, and we all are working towards that goal. >> But I think you just want to make something fun that looked like C-3PO. >> It's more like R2-D2 actually, and if you want to see more, go to knightscope.com. >> Okay, and final question. So you're advice, more general advice, to older girls or young women, in terms of what they should do if they want to get into this or why they should consider a career in STEM if they haven't already. >> A career in STEM is very, very rewarding. You're going to be doing sometimes things that nobody else has done ever before. You're out there in front of everything that's happening with technology, and it's actually exciting. When you find other women that do what you want to do, look at people's backgrounds, look at what they've done, look what they're trying to accomplish, and then, make sure that you get into their lives and they'll help you through it. There's a lot of women who would be happy to help out and one of those is me, I'd be glad to help people out. >> Well, Mercedes, thank you so much, again, for spending some time. Congratulations on the award and comin' in and tellin' us your story and educating us more on Knightscope. >> Thank you, and if anybody wants to know, knightscope.com, they can find all about our technology. >> Alright, she's Mercedes, I'm Jeff Frick, we've been having a CUBE conversation in Palo Alto, thanks for watching, we'll catch you next time. (light techno music)

>> From Phoenix, Arizona, the Cube at Catalyst Conference. Here's your host, Jeff Frick. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We are in Phoenix, Arizona, at the Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference, about 400 people, a great show, they're fourth year in existence. Back in the Bay Area next year, wanted to come down and check it out. So we're really excited to be here, and our next guest Mercedes De Luca, the Chief Operating Officer from Base Camp, welcome. >> Thank you. >> Base Camp, everybody knows Base Camp. >> Everybody knows Base Camp, it's been around for a long time. >> Absolutely, we use it and a lot of people use it, just one of those kind of tools that's ubiquitous, it's all over the place. >> Yeah, we just introduced our Base Camp 3 version, and now it's something we operate the business on. >> Excellent, so we talked a little bit off camera about your session, which is really about career pivots, and there's probably no place more important to be able to execute a successful career pivot than Silicon Valley. We hear about it often with companies, and usually it's associated when things aren't going so well that you have to do some type of a business model pivot or design pivot. But from a career perspective, super important. So what are some of the lessons that you shared here in your talk? >> Yeah, so one of the things that we did, was how do you sort of take the risk out of pivots, and what vectors do you move along. Basically recommending that people sort of take one vector at a time. I think getting the industry right is really important, and when I first started I had an opportunity to work in financial service or high-tech. I chose high-tech and that formed my career. And so I think getting the industry right's important. I think when you want to move to different functions, there's ways to do that inside companies, there's ways to do that when you move to a different company. >> It's interesting, there's so much pressure with kids and young people trying to figure out, you know, what's the right decision. I got to make the right decision. You don't really need to make the right decision. You just need to make a decision and get on your path, right? >> Exactly, you just want to make that next move. That's really where you want to focus your energy because as long as you're moving toward your strengths, you're beginning to amplify those, it's just about making that next step. And it's really important to talk to other people and verify that what you think you're going to be moving to is actually what's going to be happening. >> Right, so when you define some of these vectors, what are some of the vectors that are consistent or adjacent that make some of these moves easier or more successful? >> So one would be industry vector, so if you want to get out of the industry you're in, but you may still do the same function in that industry. There's the function vector, which says, I'm in a function of engineering and I want to get into marketing, or I'm in project management and I want to do engineering. And then the third has more to do with how you contribute the level you're at. Vice president, director, size of company, individual contributor versus line management. So there's a lot of different vectors, there's three basically, is how I think about it. And it's just a recommendation of how to think about making moves. >> Now, we had Jim McCarthy on earlier, who was a speaker, and he talked about making the big shift, you know. You have a life changing event, and you just decide this is not what I want to do, I want to do something different. How does that play into what you're trying to help people do, to make it successful? So you don't just drop everything and change buildings. You have to kind of work your way over I would imagine. >> Right, I think the most important thing though is focusing on your strengths, really figuring out what is it in your career. For me it's been emerging technology, it's been consumer, and it's been leadership. And culture, so when I look at those things together, it's always making sure that that next step is moving you even closer and closer to that ultimate place. Base Camp is known for its culture. So one of the things that was really important to me in this last move, was to make sure that I wound up in a company that really walked the walk. That was important to me. >> So what tips do you give to people when they're thinking about that, to figure out culture? It's hard to figure out culture. You go through an interview process, and you get to meet the person across the table, and you do a little investigative work, but a lot of times you don't really know what you've got into until you got into it. So how do you coach people to try to figure out some of that culture fit, and again what are the vectors of culture that are the big ones that you should be aligning to? >> Well, we're lucky today because there's Twitter, and there's Facebook, and there's all sorts of social media that allows us to really learn a lot more about the company and the culture, check out what the people in the company are saying about the company. In my case, super lucky, because both of the founders blog a lot on our Signal Versus Noise. They do a lot of writing, so I almost felt like I knew the culture going into it. They've written books, et cetera. But for companies that haven't written books and haven't blogged, I think you can absolutely get that by also talking to people inside the company and being clear about what you're looking for. I think that's a big part of it. >> Okay, well Mercedes, I'll give you the last word. What is your kind of parting tip to people who are looking to make a move, or just concerned, oh my gosh, I'm just locked up cause I think I have to get it right the first time? >> Don't let others define you. (laughing) >> Short and sweet. I should have asked you the bumper sticker question, give me the bumper sticker for it. Don't let others define you, that's perfect. Well Mercedes, thanks for taking a few minutes to stop by. >> Thank you Jeff. I appreciate it. >> Absolutely. >> Nice to meet you. >> So Jeff Frick here, at the Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference in Phoenix, Arizona. You're watching the Cube. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(soft music) >> Announcer: TheCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies. Creating technologies that drive human progress. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Spain, everybody. We're here at the Fira in MWC23. Is just an amazing day. This place is packed. They said 80,000 people. I think it might even be a few more walk-ins. I'm Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin is here, David Nicholson. But right now we have the Analyst Hot Takes with three friends of theCUBE. Chris Lewis is back again with me in the co-host seat. Zeus Kerravala, analyst extraordinaire. Great to see you, Z. and Sarbjeet SJ Johal. Good to see you again, theCUBE contributor. And that's my new name for him. He says that is his nickname. Guys, thanks for coming back on. We got the all male panel, sorry, but it is what it is. So Z, is this the first time you've been on it at MWC. Take aways from the show, Hot Takes. What are you seeing? Same wine, new bottle? >> In a lot of ways, yeah. I mean, I was talking to somebody this earlier that if you had come from like MWC five years ago to this year, a lot of the themes are the same. Telco transformation, cloud. I mean, 5G is a little new. Sustainability is certainly a newer theme here. But I think it highlights just the difficulty I think the telcos have in making this transformation. And I think, in some ways, I've been unfair to them in some degree 'cause I've picked on them in the past for not moving fast enough. These are, you know, I think these kind of big transformations almost take like a perfect storm of things that come together to happen, right? And so, in the past, we had technologies that maybe might have lowered opex, but they're hard to deploy. They're vertically integrated. We didn't have the software stacks. But it appears today that between the cloudification of, you know, going to cloud native, the software stacks, the APIs, the ecosystems, I think we're actually in a position to see this industry finally move forward. >> Yeah, and Chris, I mean, you have served this industry for a long time. And you know, when you, when you do that, you get briefed as an analyst, you actually realize, wow, there's a lot of really smart people here, and they're actually, they have challenges, they're working through it. So Zeus was saying he's been tough on the industry. You know, what do you think about how the telcos have evolved in the last five years? >> I think they've changed enormously. I think the problem we have is we're always looking for the great change, the big step change, and there is no big step change in a way. What telcos deliver to us as individuals, businesses, society, the connectivity piece, that's changed. We get better and better and more reliable connectivity. We're shunting a load more capacity through. What I think has really changed is their attitude to their suppliers, their attitude to their partners, and their attitude to the ecosystem in which they play. Understanding that connectivity is not the end game. Connectivity is part of the emerging end game where it will include storage, compute, connect, and analytics and everything else. So I think the realization that they are not playing their own game anymore, it's a much more open game. And some things they will continue to do, some things they'll stop doing. We've seen them withdraw from moving into adjacent markets as much as we used to see. So a lot of them in the past went off to try and do movies, media, and a lot went way way into business IT stuff. They've mainly pulled back from that, and they're focusing on, and let's face it, it's not just a 5G show. The fixed environment is unbelievably important. We saw that during the pandemic. Having that fixed broadband connection using wifi, combining with cellular. We love it. But the problem as an industry is that the users often don't even know the connectivity's there. They only know when it doesn't work, right? >> If it's not media and it's not business services, what is it? >> Well, in my view, it will be enabling third parties to deliver the services that will include media, that will include business services. So embedding the connectivity all the way into the application that gets delivered or embedding it so the quality mechanism deliver the gaming much more accurately or, I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that. But no, the video quality if you want to have a high quality video will come through better. >> And those cohorts will pay for that value? >> Somebody will pay somewhere along the line. >> Seems fuzzy to me. >> Me too. >> I do think it's use case dependent. Like you look at all the work Verizon did at the Super Bowl this year, that's a perfect case where they could have upsold. >> Explain that. I'm not familiar with it. >> So Verizon provided all the 5G in the Super Bowl. They provided a lot of, they provided private connectivity for the coaches to talk to the sidelines. And that's a mission critical application, right? In the NFL, if one side can't talk, the other side gets shut down. You can't communicate with the quarterback or the coaches. There's a lot of risk at that. So, but you know, there's a case there, though, I think where they could have even made that fan facing. Right? And if you're paying 2000 bucks to go to a game, would you pay 50 bucks more to have a higher tier of bandwidth so you can post things on social? People that go there, they want people to know they were there. >> Every football game you go to, you can't use your cell. >> Analyst: Yeah, I know, right? >> All right, let's talk about developers because we saw the eight APIs come out. I think ISVs are going to be a big part of this. But it's like Dee Arthur said. Hey, eight's better than zero, I guess. Okay, so, but so the innovation is going to come from ISVs and developers, but what are your hot takes from this show and now day two, we're a day and a half in, almost two days in. >> Yeah, yeah. There's a thing that we have talked, I mentioned many times is skills gravity, right? Skills have gravity, and also, to outcompete, you have to also educate. That's another theme actually of my talks is, or my research is that to puts your technology out there to the practitioners, you have to educate them. And that's the only way to democratize your technology. What telcos have been doing is they have been stuck to the proprietary software and proprietary hardware for too long, from Nokia's of the world and other vendors like that. So now with the open sourcing of some of the components and a few others, right? And they're open source space and antenna, you know? Antennas are becoming software now. So with the invent of these things, which is open source, it helps us democratize that to the other sort of skirts of the practitioners, if you will. And that will bring in more applications first into the IOT space, and then maybe into the core sort of California, if you will. >> So what does a telco developer look like? I mean, all the blockchain developers and crypto developers are moving into generative AI, right? So maybe those worlds come together. >> You'd like to think though that the developers would understand everything's network centric today. So you'd like to think they'd understand that how the network responds, you know, you'd take a simple app like Zoom or something. If it notices the bandwidth changes, it should knock down the resolution. If it goes up it, then you can add different features and things and you can make apps a lot smarter that way. >> Well, G2 was saying today that they did a deal with Mercedes, you know this probably better than I do, where they're going to embed WebEx in the car. And if you're driving, it'll shut off the camera. >> Of course. >> I'm like, okay. >> I'll give you a better example though. >> But that's my point. Like, isn't there more that we can do? >> You noticed down on the SKT stand the little helicopter. That's a vertical lift helicopter. So it's an electric vertical lift helicopter. Just think of that for a second. And then think of the connectivity to control that, to securely control that. And then I was recently at an event with Zeus actually where we saw an air traffic control system where there was no people manning the tower. It was managed by someone remotely with all the cameras around them. So managing all of those different elements, we call it IOT, but actually it's way more than what we thought of as IOT. All those components connecting, communicating securely and safely. 'Cause I don't want that helicopter to come down on my head, do you? (men laugh) >> Especially if you're in there. (men laugh) >> Okay, so you mentioned sustainability. Everybody's talking about power. I don't know if you guys have a lot of experience around TCO, but I'm trying to get to, well, is this just because energy costs are so high, and then when the energy becomes cheap again, nobody's going to pay any attention to it? Or is this the real deal? >> So one of the issues around the, if we want to experience all that connectivity locally or that helicopter wants to have that connectivity, we have to ultimately build denser, more reliable networks. So there's a CapEx, we're going to put more base stations in place. We need more fiber in the ground to support them. Therefore, the energy consumption will go up. So we need to be more efficient in the use of energy. Simple as that. >> How much of the operating expense is energy? Like what percent of it? Is it 10%? Is it 20%? Is it, does anybody know? >> It depends who you ask and it depends on the- >> I can't get an answer to that. I mean, in the enterprise- >> Analyst: The data centers? >> Yeah, the data centers. >> We have the numbers. I think 10 to 15%. >> It's 10 to 12%, something like that. Is it much higher? >> I've got feeling it's 30%. >> Okay, so if it's 30%, that's pretty good. >> I do think we have to get better at understanding how to measure too. You know, like I was talking with John Davidson at Sysco about this that every rev of silicon they come out with uses more power, but it's a lot more dense. So at the surface, you go, well, that's using a lot more power. But you can consolidate 10 switches down to two switches. >> Well, Intel was on early and talking about how they can intelligently control the cores. >> But it's based off workload, right? That's the thing. So what are you running over it? You know, and so, I don't think our industry measures that very well. I think we look at things kind of boxed by box versus look at total consumption. >> Well, somebody else in theCUBE was saying they go full throttle. That the networks just say just full throttle everything. And that obviously has to change from the power consumption standpoint. >> Obviously sustainability and sensory or sensors from IOT side, they go hand in hand. Just simple examples like, you know, lights in the restrooms, like in public areas. Somebody goes in there and just only then turns. The same concept is being applied to servers and compute and storage and every aspects and to networks as well. >> Cell tower. >> Yeah. >> Cut 'em off, right? >> Like the serverless telco? (crosstalk) >> Cell towers. >> Well, no, I'm saying, right, but like serverless, you're not paying for the compute when you're not using it, you know? >> It is serverless from the economics point of view. Yes, it's like that, you know? It goes to the lowest level almost like sleep on our laptops, sleep level when you need more power, more compute. >> I mean, some of that stuff's been in networking equipment for a long time, it just never really got turned on. >> I want to ask you about private networks. You wrote a piece, Athenet was acquired by HPE right after Dell announced a relationship with Athenet, which was kind of, that was kind of funny. And so a good move, good judo move by by HP. I asked Dell about it, and they said, look, we're open. They said the right things. We'll see, but I think it's up to HP. >> Well, and the network inside Dell is. >> Yeah, okay, so. Okay, cool. So, but you said something in that article you wrote on Silicon Angle that a lot of people feel like P5G is going to basically replace wireless or cannibalize wireless. You said you didn't agree with that. Explain why? >> Analyst: Wifi. >> Wifi, sorry, I said wireless. >> No, that's, I mean that's ridiculous. Pat Gelsinger said that in his last VMware, which I thought was completely irresponsible. >> That it was going to cannibalize? >> Cannibalize wifi globally is what he said, right? Now he had Verizon on stage with him, so. >> Analyst: Wifi's too inexpensive and flexible. >> Wifi's cheap- >> Analyst: It's going to embed really well. Embedded in that. >> It's reached near ubiquity. It's unlicensed. So a lot of businesses don't want to manage their own spectrum, right? And it's great for this, right? >> Analyst: It does the job. >> For casual connectivity. >> Not today. >> Well, it does for the most part. Right now- >> For the most part. But never at these events. >> If it's engineered correctly, it will. Right? Where you need private 5G is when reliability is an absolute must. So, Chris, you and I visited the Port of Rotterdam, right? So they're putting 5G, private 5G there, but there's metal containers everywhere, right? And that's going to disrupt it. And so there are certain use cases where it makes sense. >> I've been in your basement, and you got some pretty intense equipment in there. You have private 5G in there. >> But for carpeted offices, it does not make sense to bring private. The economics don't make any sense. And you know, it runs hot. >> So where's it going to be used? Give us some examples of where we should be looking for. >> The early ones are obviously in mining, and you say in ports, in airports. It broadens cities because you've got so many moving parts in there, and always think about it, very expensive moving parts. The cranes in the port are normally expensive piece of kits. You're moving that, all that logistics around. So managing that over a distance where the wifi won't work over the distance. And in mining, we're going to see enormous expensive trucks moving around trying to- >> I think a great new use case though, so the Cleveland Browns actually the first NFL team to use it for facial recognition to enter the stadium. So instead of having to even pull your phone out, it says, hey Dave Vellante. You've got four tickets, can we check you all in? And you just walk through. You could apply that to airports. You could do put that in a hotel. You could walk up and check in. >> Analyst: Retail. >> Yeah, retail. And so I think video, realtime video analytics, I think it's a perfect use case for that. >> But you don't need 5G to do that. You could do that through another mechanism, couldn't you? >> You could do wire depending on how mobile you want to do it. Like in a stadium, you're pulling those things in and out all the time. You're moving 'em around and things, so. >> Yeah, but you're coming in at a static point. >> I'll take the contrary view here. >> See, we can't even agree on that. (men laugh) >> Yeah, I love it. Let's go. >> I believe the reliability of connection is very important, right? And the moving parts. What are the moving parts in wifi? We have the NIC card, you know, the wifi card in these suckers, right? In a machine, you know? They're bigger in size, and the radios for 5G are smaller in size. So neutralization is important part of the whole sort of progress to future, right? >> I think 5G costs as well. Yes, cost as well. But cost, we know that it goes down with time, right? We're already talking about 60, and the 5G stuff will be good. >> Actually, sorry, so one of the big boom areas at the moment is 4G LTE because the component price has come down so much, so it is affordable, you can afford to bring it all together. People don't, because we're still on 5G, if 5G standalone everywhere, you're not going to get a consistent service. So those components are unbelievably important. The skillsets of the people doing integration to bring them all together, unbelievably important. And the business case within the business. So I was talking to one of the heads of one of the big retail outlets in the UK, and I said, when are you going to do 5G in the stores? He said, well, why would I tear out all the wifi? I've got perfectly functioning wifi. >> Yeah, that's true. It's already there. But I think the technology which disappears in front of you, that's the best technology. Like you don't worry about it. You don't think it's there. Wifi, we think we think about that like it's there. >> And I do think wifi 5G switching's got to get easier too. Like for most users, you don't know which is better. You don't even know how to test it. And to your point, it does need to be invisible where the user doesn't need to think about it, right? >> Invisible. See, we came back to invisible. We talked about that yesterday. Telecom should be invisible. >> And it should be, you know? You don't want to be thinking about telecom, but at the same time, telecoms want to be more visible. They want to be visible like Netflix, don't they? I still don't see the path. It's fuzzy to me the path of how they're not going to repeat what happened with the over the top providers if they're invisible. >> Well, if you think about what telcos delivers to consumers, to businesses, then extending that connectivity into your home to help you support secure and extend your connection into Zeus's basement, whatever it is. Obviously that's- >> His awesome setup down there. >> And then in the business environment, there's a big change going on from the old NPLS networks, the old rigid structures of networks to SD1 where the control point is moved outside, which can be under control of the telco, could be under the control of a third party integrator. So there's a lot changing. I think we obsess about the relative role of the telco. The demand is phenomenal for connectivity. So address that, fulfill that. And if they do that, then they'll start to build trust in other areas. >> But don't you think they're going to address that and fulfill that? I mean, they're good at it. That's their wheelhouse. >> And it's a 1.6 trillion market, right? So it's not to be sniffed at. That's fixed on mobile together, obviously. But no, it's a big market. And do we keep changing? As long as the service is good, we don't move away from it. >> So back to the APIs, the eight APIs, right? >> I mean- >> Eight APIs is a joke actually almost. I think they released it too early. The release release on the main stage, you know? Like, what? What is this, right? But of course they will grow into hundreds and thousands of APIs. But they have to spend a lot of time and effort in that sort of context. >> I'd actually like to see the GSMA work with like AWS and Microsoft and VMware and software companies and create some standardization across their APIs. >> Yeah. >> I spoke to them yes- >> We're trying to reinvent them. >> Is that not what they're doing? >> No, they said we are not in the business of a defining standards. And they used a different term, not standard. I mean, seriously. I was like, are you kidding me? >> Let's face it, there aren't just eight APIs out there. There's so many of them. The TM forum's been defining when it's open data architecture. You know, the telcos themselves are defining them. The standards we talked about too earlier with Danielle. There's a lot of APIs out there, but the consistency of APIs, so we can bring them together, to bring all the different services together that will support us in our different lives is really important. I think telcos will do it, it's in their interest to do it. >> All right, guys, we got to wrap. Let's go around the horn here, starting with Chris, Zeus, and then Sarbjeet, just bring us home. Number one hot take from Mobile World Congress MWC23 day two. >> My favorite hot take is the willingness of all the participants who have been traditional telco players who looked inwardly at the industry looking outside for help for partnerships, and to build an ecosystem, a more open ecosystem, which will address our requirements. >> Zeus? >> Yeah, I was going to talk about ecosystem. I think for the first time ever, when I've met with the telcos here, I think they're actually, I don't think they know how to get there yet, but they're at least aware of the fact that they need to understand how to build a big ecosystem around them. So if you think back like 50 years ago, IBM and compute was the center of everything in your company, and then the ecosystem surrounded it. I think today with digital transformation being network centric, the telcos actually have the opportunity to be that center of excellence, and then build an ecosystem around them. I think the SIs are actually in a really interesting place to help them do that 'cause they understand everything top to bottom that I, you know, pre pandemic, I'm not sure the telcos were really understand. I think they understand it today, I'm just not sure they know how to get there. . >> Sarbjeet? >> I've seen the lot of RN demos and testing companies and I'm amazed by it. Everything is turning into software, almost everything. The parts which are not turned into software. I mean every, they will soon. But everybody says that we need the hardware to run something, right? But that hardware, in my view, is getting miniaturized, and it's becoming smaller and smaller. The antennas are becoming smaller. The equipment is getting smaller. That means the cost on the physicality of the assets is going down. But the cost on the software side will go up for telcos in future. And telco is a messy business. Not everybody can do it. So only few will survive, I believe. So that's what- >> Software defined telco. So I'm on a mission. I'm looking for the monetization path. And what I haven't seen yet is, you know, you want to follow the money, follow the data, I say. So next two days, I'm going to be looking for that data play, that potential, the way in which this industry is going to break down the data silos I think there's potential goldmine there, but I haven't figured out yet. >> That's a subject for another day. >> Guys, thanks so much for coming on. You guys are extraordinary partners of theCUBE friends, and great analysts and congratulations and thank you for all you do. Really appreciate it. >> Analyst: Thank you. >> Thanks a lot. >> All right, this is a wrap on day two MWC 23. Go to siliconangle.com for all the news. Where Rob Hope and team are just covering all the news. John Furrier is in the Palo Alto studio. We're rocking all that news, taking all that news and putting it on video. Go to theCUBE.net, you'll see everything on demand. Thanks for watching. This is a wrap on day two. We'll see you tomorrow. (soft music)

>> Narrator: theCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies, creating technologies that drive human progress. (bright upbeat music plays) >> Welcome back to Barcelona, everybody. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of MWC '23, my name is Dave Vellante. Just left a meeting with the CEO of Cisco, Chuck Robbins, to meet with Jeetu Patel, who's our Executive Vice President and General Manager of security and collaboration at Cisco. Good to see you. >> You never leave a meeting with Chuck Robbins to meet with Jeetu Patel. >> Well, I did. >> That's a bad idea. >> Walked right out. I said, hey, I got an interview to do, right? So, and I'm excited about this. Thanks so much for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. >> So, I mean you run such an important part of the business. I mean, obviously the collaboration business but also security. So many changes going on in the security market. Maybe we could start there. I mean, there hasn't been a ton of security talk here Jeetu, because I think it's almost assumed. It was 45 minutes into the keynote yesterday before anybody even mentioned security. >> Huh. >> Right? And so, but it's the most important topic in the enterprise IT world. And obviously is important here. So why is it you think that it's not the first topic that people mention. >> You know, it's a complicated subject area and it's intimidating. And actually that's one of the things that the industry screwed up on. Where we need to simplify security so it actually gets to be relatable for every person on the planet. But, if you think about what's happening in security, it's not just important for business it's critical infrastructure that if you had a breach, you know lives are cost now. Because hospitals could go down, your water supply could go down, your electricity could go down. And so it's one of these things that we have to take pretty seriously. And, it's 51% of all breaches happen because of negligence, not because of malicious intent. >> It's that low. Interesting. I always- >> Someone else told me the same thing, that they though it'd be higher, yeah. >> I always say bad user behavior is going to trump good security every time. >> Every single time. >> You can't beat it. But, you know, it's funny- >> Jeetu: Every single time. >> Back, the earlier part of last decade, you could see that security was becoming a board level issue. It became, it was on the agenda every quarter. And, I remember doing some research at the time, and I asked, I was interviewing Robert Gates, former Defense Secretary, and I asked him, yeah, but we're getting attacked but don't we have the best offense? Can't we have the best technology? He said, yeah but we have so much critical infrastructure the risks to United States are higher. So we have to be careful about how we use security as an offensive weapon, you know? And now you're seeing the future of war involves security and what's going on in Ukraine. It's a whole different ballgame. >> It is, and the scales always tip towards the adversary, not towards the defender, because you have to be right every single time. They have to be right once. >> Yeah. And, to the other point, about bad user behavior. It's going now beyond the board level, to it's everybody's responsibility. >> That's right. >> And everybody's sort of aware of it, everybody's been hacked. And, that's where it being such a complicated topic is problematic. >> It is, and it's actually, what got us this far will not get us to where we need to get to if we don't simplify security radically. You know? The experience has to be almost invisible. And what used to be the case was sophistication had to get to a certain level, for efficacy to go up. But now, that sophistication has turned to complexity. And there's an inverse relationship between complexity and efficacy. So the simpler you make security, the more effective it gets. And so I'll give you an example. We have this great kind of innovation we've done around passwordless, right? Everyone hates passwords. You shouldn't have passwords in 2023. But, when you get to passwordless security, not only do you reduce a whole lot of friction for the user, you actually make the system safer. And that's what you need to do, is you have to make it simpler while making it more effective. And, I think that's what the future is going to hold. >> Yeah, and CISOs tell me that they're, you know zero trust before the pandemic was like, yeah, yeah zero trust. And now it's like a mandate. >> Yeah. >> Every CISO you talk to says, yes we're implementing a zero trust architecture. And a big part of that is that, if they can confirm zero trust, they can get to market a lot faster with revenue generating or critical projects. And many projects as we know are being pushed back, >> Yeah. >> you know? 'Cause of the macro. But, projects that drive revenue and value they want to accelerate, and a zero trust confirmation allows people to rubber stamp it and go faster. >> And the whole concept of zero trust is least privileged access, right? But what we want to make sure that we get to is continuous assessment of least privileged access, not just a one time at login. >> Dave: 'Cause things change so frequently. >> So, for example, if you happen to be someone that's logged into the system and now you start doing some anomalous behavior that doesn't sound like Dave, we want to be able to intercept, not just do it at the time that you're authenticating Dave to come in. >> So you guys got a good business. I mentioned the macro before. >> Yeah. >> The big theme is consolidating redundant vendors. So a company with a portfolio like Cisco's obviously has an advantage there. You know, you guys had great earnings. Palo Alto is another company that can consolidate. Tom Gillis, great pickup. Guy's amazing, you know? >> Love Tom. >> Great respect. Just had a little webinar session with him, where he was geeking out with the analyst and so- >> Yeah, yeah. >> Learned a lot there. Now you guys have some news, at the event event with Mercedes? >> We do. >> Take us through that, and I want to get your take on hybrid work and what's happening there. But what's going on with Mercedes? >> Yeah so look, it all actually stems from the hybrid work story, which is the future is going to be hybrid, people are going to work in mixed mode. Sometimes you'll be in the office, sometimes at home, sometimes somewhere in the middle. One of the places that people are working more and more from is their cars. And connected cars are getting to be a reality. And in fact, cars sometimes become an extension of your home office. And many a times I have found myself in a parking lot, because I didn't have enough time to get home and I was in a parking lot taking a conference call. And so we've made that section easier, because we have now partnered with Mercedes. And they aren't the first partner, but they're a very important partner where we are going to have Webex available, through the connected car, natively in Mercedes. >> Ah, okay. So I could take a call, I can do it all the time. I find good service, pull over, got to take the meeting. >> Yeah. >> I don't want to be driving. I got to concentrate. >> That's right. >> You know, or sometimes, I'll have the picture on and it's not good. >> That's right. >> Okay, so it'll be through the console, and all through the internet? >> It'll be through the console. And many people ask me like, how's safety going to work over that? Because you don't want to do video calls while you're driving. Exactly right. So when you're driving, the video automatically turns off. And you'll have audio going on, just like a conference call. But the moment you stop and put it in park, you can have video turned on. >> Now, of course the whole hybrid work trend, we, seems like a long time ago but it doesn't, you know? And it's really changed the security dynamic as well, didn't it? >> It has, it has. >> I mean, immediately you had to go protect new endpoints. And those changes, I felt at the time, were permanent. And I think it's still the case, but there's an equilibrium now happening. People as they come back to the office, you see a number of companies are mandating back to work. Maybe the central offices, or the headquarters, were underfunded. So what's going on out there in terms of that balance? >> Well firstly, there's no unanimous consensus on the way that the future is going to be, except that it's going to be hybrid. And the reason I say that is some companies mandate two days a week, some companies mandate five days a week, some companies don't mandate at all. Some companies are completely remote. But whatever way you go, you want to make sure that regardless of where you're working from, people can have an inclusive experience. You know? And, when they have that experience, you want to be able to work from a managed device or an unmanaged device, from a corporate network or from a Starbucks, from on the road or stationary. And whenever you do any of those things, we want to make sure that security is always handled, and you don't have to worry about that. And so the way that we say it is the company that created the VPN, which is Cisco, is the one that's going to kill it. Because what we'll do is we'll make it simple enough so that you don't, you as a user, never have to worry about what connection you're going to use to dial in to what app. You will have one, seamless way to dial into any application, public application, private application, or directly to the internet. >> Yeah, I got a love, hate with my VPN. I mean, it's protecting me, but it's in the way a lot. >> It's going to be simple as ever. >> Do you have kids? >> I do, I have a 12 year old daughter. >> Okay, so not quite high school age yet. She will be shortly. >> No, but she's already, I'm not looking forward to high school days, because she has a very, very strong sense of debate and she wins 90% of the arguments. >> So when my kids were that age, I've got four kids, but the local high school banned Wikipedia, they can't use Wikipedia for research. Many colleges, I presume high schools as well, they're banning Chat GPT, can't use it. Now at the same time, I saw recently on Medium a Wharton school professor said he's mandating Chat GPT to teach his students how to prompt in progressively more sophisticated prompts, because the future is interacting with machines. You know, they say in five years we're all going to be interacting in some way, shape, or form with AI. Maybe we already are. What's the intersection between AI and security? >> So a couple very, very consequential things. So firstly on Chat GPT, the next generation skill is going to be to learn how to go out and have the right questions to ask, which is the prompt revolution that we see going on right now. But if you think about what's happening in security, and there's a few areas which are, firstly 3,500 hundred vendors in this space. On average, most companies have 50 to 70 vendors in security. Not a single vendor owns more than 10% of the market. You take out a couple vendors, no one owns more than 5%. Highly fractured market. That's a problem. Because it's untenable for companies to go out and manage 70 policy engines. And going out and making sure that there's no contention. So as you move forward, one of the things that Chat GPT will be really good for is it's fundamentally going to change user experiences, for how software gets built. Because rather than it being point and click, it's going to be I'm going to provide an instruction and it's going to tell me what to do in natural language. Imagine Dave, when you joined a company if someone said, hey give Dave all the permissions that he needs as a direct report to Chuck. And instantly you would get all of the permissions. And it would actually show up in a screen that says, do you approve? And if you hit approve, you're done. The interfaces of the future will get more natural language kind of dominated. The other area that you'll see is the sophistication of attacks and the surface area of attacks is increasing quite exponentially. And we no longer can handle this with human scale. You have to handle it in machine scale. So detecting breaches, making sure that you can effectively and quickly respond in real time to the breaches, and remediate those breaches, is all going to happen through AI and machine learning. >> So, I agree. I mean, just like Amazon turned the data center into an API, I think we're now going to be interfacing with technology through human language. >> That's right. >> I mean I think it's a really interesting point you're making. Now, from a security standpoint as well, I mean, the state of the art today in my email is be careful, this person's outside your organization. I'm like, yeah I know. So it's a good warning sign, but it's really not automated in any way. So two part question. One is, can AI help? You know, with the phishing, obviously it can, but the bad guys have AI too. >> Yeah. >> And they're probably going to be smarter than I am about using it. >> Yeah, and by the way, Talos is our kind of threat detection and response >> Yes. >> kind of engine. And, they had a great kind of piece that came out recently where they talked about this, where Chat GPT, there is going to be more sophistication of the folks that are the bad actors, the adversaries in using Chat GPT to have more sophisticated phishing attacks. But today it's not something that is fundamentally something that we can't handle just yet. But you still need to do the basic hygiene. That's more important. Over time, what you will see is attacks will get more bespoke. And in order, they'll get more sophisticated. And, you will need to have better mechanisms to know that this was actually not a human being writing that to you, but it was actually a machine pretending to be a human being writing something to you. And that you'll have to be more clever about it. >> Oh interesting. >> And so, you will see attacks get more bespoke and we'll have to get smarter and smarter about it. >> The other thing I wanted to ask you before we close is you're right on. I mean you take the top security vendors and they got a single digit market share. And it's like it's untenable for organizations, just far too many tools. We have a partner at ETR, they do quarterly survey research and one of the things they do is survey emerging technology companies. And when we look at in the security sector just the number of emerging technology companies that are focused on cybersecurity is as many as there are out there already. And so, there's got to be consolidation. Maybe that's through M & A. I mean, what do you think happens? Are company's going to go out of business? There's going to be a lot of M & A? You've seen a lot of companies go private. You know, the big PE companies are sucking up all these security companies and may be ready to spit 'em out and go back public. How do you see the landscape? You guys are obviously an inquisitive company. What are your thoughts on that? >> I think there will be a little bit of everything. But the biggest change that you'll see is a shift that's going to happen with an integrated platform, rather than point solution vendors. So what's going to happen is the market's going to consolidate towards very few, less than a half a dozen, integrated platforms. We believe Cisco is going to be one. Microsoft will be one. There'll be others over there. But these, this platform will essentially be able to provide a unified kind of policy engine across a multitude of different services to protect multiple different entities within the organization. And, what we found is that platform will also be something that'll provide, through APIs, the ability for third parties to be able to get their technology incorporated in, and their telemetry ingested. So we certainly intend to do that. We don't believe, we are not arrogant enough to think that every single new innovation will be built by us. When there's someone else who has built that, we want to make sure that we can ingest that telemetry as well, because the real enemy is not the competitor. The real enemy is the adversary. And we all have to get together, so that we can keep humanity safe. >> Do you think there's been enough collaboration in the industry? I mean- >> Jeetu: Not nearly enough. >> We've seen companies, security companies try to monetize private data before, instead of maybe sharing it with competitors. And so I think the industry can do better there. >> Well I think the industry can do better. And we have this concept called the security poverty line. And the security poverty line is the companies that fall below the security poverty line don't have either the influence or the resources or the know how to keep themselves safe. And when they go unsafe, everyone else that communicates with them also gets that exposure. So it is in our collective interest for all of us to make sure that we come together. And, even if Palo Alto might be a competitor of ours, we want to make sure that we invite them to say, let's make sure that we can actually exchange telemetry between our companies. And we'll continue to do that with as many companies that are out there, because actually that's better for the market, that's better for the world. >> The enemy of the enemy is my friend, kind of thing. >> That's right. >> Now, as it relates to, because you're right. I mean I, I see companies coming up, oh, we do IOT security. I'm like, okay, but what about cloud security? Do you that too? Oh no, that's somebody else. But, so that's another stove pipe. >> That's a huge, huge advantage of coming with someone like Cisco. Because we actually have the entire spectrum, and the broadest portfolio in the industry of anyone else. From the user, to the device, to the network, to the applications, we provide the entire end-to-end story for security, which then has the least amount of cracks that you can actually go out and penetrate through. The biggest challenges that happen in security is you've got way too many policy engines with way too much contention between the policies from these different systems. And eventually there's a collision course. Whereas with us, you've actually got a broad portfolio that operates as one platform. >> We were talking about the cloud guys earlier. You mentioned Microsoft. They're obviously a big competitor in the security space. >> Jeetu: But also a great partner. >> So that's right. To my opinion, the cloud has been awesome as a first line of defense if you will. But the shared responsibility model it's different for each cloud, right? So, do you feel that those guys are working together or will work together to actually improve? 'Cause I don't see that yet. >> Yeah so if you think about, this is where we feel like we have a structural advantage in this, because what does a company like Cisco become in the future? I think as the world goes multicloud and hybrid cloud, what'll end up happening is there needs to be a way, today all the CSPs provide everything from storage to computer network, to security, in their own stack. If we can abstract networking and security above them, so that we can acquire and steer any and all traffic with our service providers and steer it to any of those CSPs, and make sure that the security policy transcends those clouds, you would actually be able to have the public cloud economics without the public cloud lock-in. >> That's what we call super cloud Jeetu. It's securing the super cloud. >> Yeah. >> Hey, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> Really appreciate you coming on our editorial program. >> Such a pleasure. >> All right, great to see you again. >> Cheers. >> All right, keep it right there. Dave Vellante with David Nicholson and Lisa Martin. We'll be back, right after this short break from MWC '23 live, in the Fira, in Barcelona. (bright music resumes) (music fades out)

(energetic music plays) >> Lisa: Hey everyone, we're so glad you're here with us. theCUBE is covering Cloud Native Security Con 23. Lisa Martin here with John Furrier. This is our second day of coverage of the event. We've had some great conversations with a lot of intellectual, exciting folks, as you know cuz you've been watching. John and I are very pleased to welcome back one of our alumni to theCUBE Taylor Dolezal joins us the head of ecosystem at CNCF. Taylor, welcome back to theCUBE. Great to see you. >> Taylor: Hey everybody, great to see you again. >> Lisa: So you are on the ground in Seattle. We're jealous. We've got fomo as John would say. Talk to us about, this is a inaugural event. We were watching Priyanka keynote yesterday. Seemed like a lot of folks there, 72 sessions a lot of content, a lot of discussions. What's the buzz, what's the reception of this inaugural event from your perspective? >> Taylor: So it's been really fantastic. I think the number one thing that has come out of this conference so far is that it's a wonderful chance to come together and for people to see one another. It's, it's been a long time that we've kind of had that opportunity to be able to interact with folks or you know, it's just a couple months since last Cube Con. But this is truly a different vibe and it's nice to have that focus on security. We're seeing a lot of folks within different organizations work through different problems and then finally have a vendor neutral space in which to talk about all of those contexts and really raise everybody up with all this new knowledge and new talking points, topics, and different facets of knowledge. >> John: Taylor, we were joking on our yesterday's summary of the keynotes, Dave Vellante and I, and the guests, Lisa and I, about the CNCF having an event operating system, you know, very decoupled highly cohesive events, strung together beautifully through the Linux Foundation, you know, kind of tongue in cheek but it was kind of fun to play on words because it's a very technical community. But the business model of, of hackers is booming. The reality of businesses booming and Cloud Native is the preferred developer environment for the future application. So the emphasis, it's very clear that this is a good move to do and targeting the community around security's a solid move. Amazon's done it with reinforce and reinvent. We see that Nice segmentation. What's the goal? Because this is really where it connects to Cube Con and Cloud Native Con as well because this shift left there too. But here it's very much about hardcore Cloud Native security. What's your positioning on this? Am I getting it right or is there is that how you guys see it? >> Taylor: Yeah, so, so that's what we've see that's what we were talking about as well as we were thinking on breaking this event out. So originally this event was a co-located event during the Cube Con windows in both Europe and North America. And then it just was so consistently popular clearly a topic that people wanted to talk, which is good that people want to talk of security. And so when we saw this massive continued kind of engagement, we wanted to break this off into its own conference. When we were going through that process internally, like you had mentioned the events team is just phenomenal to work with and they, I love how easy that they make it for us to be able to do these kinds of events too though we wanted to talk through how we differentiate this event from others and really what's changed for us and kind of how we see this space is that we didn't really see any developer-centric open source kinds of conferences. Ones that were really favoring of the developer and focus on APIs and ways in which to implement these things across all of your workloads within your organization. So that's truly what we're looking to go for here during these, all of these sessions. And that's how it's been playing out so far which has been really great to see. >> John: Taylor, I want to ask you on the ecosystem obviously the built-in ecosystem at CNCF.IO with Cube Cons Cloud Cons there, this is a new ecosystem opportunity to add more people that are security focused. Is their new entrance coming into the fold and what's been the reaction? >> Taylor: So short answer is yes we've seen a huge uptick across our vendor members and those are people that are creating Cloud offerings and selling those and working with others to implement them as well as our end users. So people consuming Cloud Native projects and using them to power core parts of their business. We have gotten a lot of data from groups like IBM and security, IBM security and put 'em on institute. They gave us a cost of data breach report that Priyanka mentioned and talked about 43% of those organizations haven't started or in the early stages of updating security practices of their cloud environments and then here on the ground, you know, talking through some best practices and really sharing those out as well. So it's, I've gotten to hear pieces and parts of different conversations and and I'm certain we'll hear more about those soon but it's just really been great to, to hear everybody with that main focus of, hey, there's more that we can do within the security space and you know, let's let's help one another out on that front just because it is such a vast landscape especially in the security space. >> Lisa: It's a huge landscape. And to your point earlier, Taylor it's everyone has the feeling that it's just so great to be back together again getting folks out of the silos that they've been operating in for such a long time. But I'd love to get some of your, whatever you can share in terms of some of the Cloud Native security projects that you've heard about over the last day or so. Anything exciting that you think is really demonstrating the value already and this inaugural event? >> Taylor: Yes, so I I've been really excited to hear a lot of, personally I've really liked the talks around EBPF. There are a whole bunch of projects utilizing that as far as runtime security goes and actually getting visibility into your workloads and being able to see things that you do expect and things that you don't expect and how to remediate those. And then I keep hearing a lot of talks about open policy agents and projects like Caverno around you know, how do we actually automate different policies or within regulated industries, how do we actually start to solve those problems? So I've heard even more around CNCF projects and other contexts that have come up but truly most of them have been around the telemetry space EBPF and, and quite a few others. So really great to, to see all those projects choosing something to bind to and making it that much more accessible for folks to implement or build on top of as well. >> John: I love the reference you guys had just the ChatGPT that was mentioned in the keynote yesterday and also the reference to Dan Kaminsky who was mentioned on the reference to DNS and Bind, lot of root level security going on. It seems like this is like a Tiger team event where all the top alpha security gurus come together, Priyanka said, experts bottoms up, developer first practitioners, that's the vibe. Is that kind of how you guys want it to be more practitioners hardcore? >> Taylor: Absolutely, absolutely. I think that when it comes to security, we really want to help. It's definitely a grassroots movement. It's great to have the people that have such a deep understanding of certain security, just bits of knowledge really when it comes to EBPF. You know, we have high surveillance here that we're talking things through. Falco is here with Sysdig and so it it's great to have all of these people here, though I have seen a good spread of folks that are, you know, most people have started their security journey but they're not where they want to be. And so people that are starting at a 2 0 1, 3 0 1, 4 0 1 level of understanding definitely seeing a good spread of knowledge on that front. But it's really, it's been great to have folks from all varying experiences, but then to have the expertise of the folks that are writing these specifications and pushing the boundaries of what's possible with security to to ensure that we're all okay and updated on that front too, I think was most notable yesterday. Like you had said >> Lisa: Sorry Taylor, when we think of security, again this is an issue that, that organizations in every industry face, nobody is immune to this. We can talk about the value in it for the hackers in terms of ransomware alone for example. But you mentioned a stat that there's a good amount of organizations that are really either early in their security journeys or haven't started yet which kind of sounds a bit scary given the landscape and how much has changed in the last couple of years. But it sounds like on the good news front it isn't too late for organizations. Talk a little bit about some of the recommendations and best practices for those organizations who are behind the curve knowing that the next attack is going to happen. >> Taylor: Absolutely. So fantastic question. I think that when it comes to understanding the fact that people need to implement security and abide by best practices, it's like I I'm sure that many of us can agree on that front, you know, hopefully all of us. But when it comes to actually implementing that, that's I agree with you completely. That's where it's really difficult to find where where do I start, where do I actually look at? And there are a couple of answers on that front. So within the CNTF ecosystem we have a technical action group security, so tag security and they have a whole bunch of working groups that cover different facets of the Cloud Native experience. So if you, for example, are concerned about runtime security or application delivery concerns within there, those are some really good places to find people knowledgeable about, that even when the conference isn't going on to get a sense of what's going on. And then TAG security has also published recently version two of their security report which is free accessible online. They can actually look through that, see what some of the recent topics are and points of focus and of interest are within our community. There are also other organizations like Open SSF which is taking a deeper dive into security. You know, initially kind of having a little bit more of an academic focus on that space and then now getting further into things around software bill materials or SBOMs supply chain security and other topics as well. >> John: Well we love you guys doing this. We think it's very big deal. We think it's important. We're starting to see events post COVID take a certain formation, you know joking aside about the event operating systems smaller events are happening, but they're tied together. And so this is key. And of course the critical need is our businesses are under siege with threats, ransomware, security challenges, that's IT moves to Cloud Native, not everyone's moved over yet. So that's in progress. So there's a huge business imperative and the hackers have a business model. So this isn't like pie in the sky, this is urgent. So, that being said, how do you see this developing from who should attend the next one or who are you looking for to be involved to get input from you guys are open arms and very diverse and great great culture there, but who are you looking for? What's the makeup persona that you hope to attract and nurture and grow? >> Taylor: Absolutely. I, think that when it comes to trying the folks that we're looking for the correct answer is it varies you know, from, you know, you're asking Priyanka or our executive director or Chris Aniszczyk our CTO, I work mostly with the end users, so for me personally I really want to see folks that are operating within our ecosystem and actually pulling these down, these projects down and using them and sharing those stories. Because there are people creating these projects and contributing to them might not always have an idea of how they're used or how they can be exploited too. A lot of these groups that I work with like Mercedes or Intuit for example, they're out there in the world using these, these projects and getting a sense for, you know, what can come up. And by sharing that knowledge I think that's what's most important across the board. So really looking for those stories to be told and novel ways in which people are trying to exploit security and attacking the supply chain, or building applications, or just things we haven't thought about. So truly that that developer archetype is really helpful to have the consumers, the end users, the folks that are actually using these. And then, yeah, and I'm truly anywhere knowledgeable about security or that wants to learn more >> John: Super important, we're here to help you scale those stories up whatever you need, send them our way. We're looking forward to getting those. This is a super important movement getting the end users who are on the front lines bringing it back into the open, building, more software, making it secure and verified, all super important. We really appreciate the mission you guys are on and again we're here to help. So send those stories our way. >> Taylor: Cool, cool. We couldn't do it without you. Yeah, just everyone contributing, everyone sharing the news. This is it's people, people is the is the true operating system of our ecosystem. So really great to, really great to share. >> Lisa: That's such a great point Taylor. It is all about people. You talked about this event having a different vibe. I wanted to learn a little bit more about that as we, as we wrap up because there's so much cultural change that's required for organizations to evolve their security practices. And so people of course are at the center of culture. Talk a little bit about why that vibe is different and do you think that yeah, it's finally time. Everyone's getting on the same page here we're understanding, we're learning from each other. >> Taylor: Yes. So, so to kind of answer that, I think it's really a focus on, there's this term shift left and shift right. And talking about where do we actually put security in the mix as it comes to people adopting this and and figuring out where things go. And if you keep shifting at left, that meaning that the developers should care more deeply about this and a deeper understanding of all of these, you know, even if it's, even if they don't understand how to put it together, maybe understand a little bit about it or how these topics and, and facets of knowledge work. But you know, like with anything, if you shift everything off to one side or the other that's also not going to be efficient. You know, you want a steady stream of knowledge flowing throughout your whole organization. So I think that that's been something that has been a really interesting topic and, and hearing people kind of navigate and try to get through, especially groups that have had, you know, deployed an app and it's going to be around for 40 years as well. So I think that those are some really interesting and unique areas of focus that I've come up on the floor and then in a couple of the sessions here >> Lisa: There's got to be that, that balance there. Last question as we wrap the last 30 seconds or so what are you excited about given the success and the momentum of day one? What excites you about what's ahead for us on day two? >> Taylor: So on day two, I'm really, it's, there's just so many sessions. I think that it was very difficult for me to, you know pick which one I was actually going to go see. There are a lot of favorites that I had kind of doubled up at each of the time so I'm honestly going to be in a lot of the sessions today. So really excited about that. Supply chain security is definitely one that's close to my heart as well but I'm really curious to see what new topics, concepts or novel ideas people have to kind of exploit things. Like one for example is a package is out there it's called Browser Test but somebody came up with one called Bowser Test. Just a very simple misname and then when you go and run that it does a fake kind of like, hey you've been exploited and just even these incorrect name attacks. That's something that is really close and dear to me as well. Kind of hearing about all these wild things people wouldn't think about in terms of exploitation. So really, really excited to hear more stories on that front and better protect myself both at home and within the Cloud Community as I stand these things up. >> Lisa: Absolutely you need to clone yourself so that you can, there's so many different sessions. There needs to be multiple versions of Taylor that you can attend and then you can all get together and talk about and learn. But that's actually a really good problem to have as we mentioned when we started 72 sessions yesterday and today. Lots of great content. Taylor, we thank you for your participation. We thank you for bringing the vibe and the buzz of the event to us and we look forward as well to hearing and seeing what day two brings us today. Thank you so much for your time Taylor. >> Taylor: Thank you for having me. >> John: All right >> Lisa: Right, for our guest and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube's Day two coverage of Cloud Native Security Con 23. (energetic music plays)

>>Welcome back to Falcon 2022. This is Dave LAN. We get a special presentation segment for you today. This is Walter Wall day one of day two's cube coverage, JC Herrera. Here's my designated cohost. Who's the chief human resource officer at CrowdStrike. Craig Neri is to my left. He's the beneficiary and the beneficiary trustee and ambassador of, of operation Motorsport and former us air force. Thank you for your service. Thank you. And Deel Lauder, who is CEO and co-founder of operation Motorsport. Jen, welcome to the cube. Thanks so much for coming on. Great to be JC set this up for us. Explain your role, explain the corporate giving the whole student connection and the veterans take us through that. >>Yeah, sure. Yeah. So as, as head of HR, one of the, one of the things that we do is, is help manage part of the corporate giving strategy. And, and one of those things that, that we love to do is to also invest in students and in our veterans, it's just a part of our giving program. So this partnership with operation Motorsport is really critical to that. And if you want to dive a little bit deeper into that, we just see that there's a gigantic skills gap in cyber security. And so when we, when there's over millions of open roles around the world and 700,000 of 'em in the us alone, we've gotta go close that gap. And so our next gen scholarships that come out of the, that are giving funds are, are awarded to students who are studying cyber security or AI. And the other side of that is that this partnership with operation motor sport, then we get the opportunity to do some internships with veterans through operation motor sport as well, the >>Number 700,000 now, but pre pandemic. I remember number 3 50, 300 50,000. It's it's doubled now just in the us. Amazing. All right, diesel, tell us about the mission of operation motor sport, like who are the beneficiaries let's get into it. >>So operation motor sport engages ill, injured, wounded service members, those that are medically retiring from the service or disabled veterans, these individuals be taken out of their units. They lose their team identity, their purpose. And, and what we do is those that apply to the program and have a desire to work around shiny objects and fast cars and all the great smells or just car guys or gals that we have some of those as well. They, we, we bring them onto the teams as beneficiaries. So embed them into a race team and give them opportunity to find something new. We're a recovery program. We're not about, you know, finding jobs for these folks. It's about networking and getting outta that, you know, outta the dark places where some of them end up going, because this is a, a huge change for them. And, and in doing so, we now expose them to crowd strike. You know, that's, that's one of the new relationships that, that we have where potentially if they want to, they can pursue new opportunities in areas like cyber security. >>And they're chosen through an application process. You're I'm, I'm inferring. >>Yeah. They just go online and say, you know, through word of mouth or through a friend or through the, the USO and other organizations, they go online and they click the apply here and they fill it out. And our beneficiary trustee, Craig, and calls 'em up and says, Hey, tell me about what you're looking for. And, and we, we pair them up with the race team and Craig, >>You're also a, a beneficiary in addition to being the beneficiary trustee. So explain that, what's your story? >>Right. So I started in this organization as a beneficiary. I was the one that hit the button on the website. And, and then a few minutes later, I got a phone call from then Tiffany Lader, diesel's wife, who's our executive director in the organization. And, and I had that same conversation that I now have with beneficiaries today. I did a, I did a full season with them last year in 2021 as a beneficiary. But at the end I realized how big of an impact that this has with folks. Transition can be very difficult, especially if they're ill injured or wounded. And so I asked if I could help if I could give back, cuz it meant such it had such a big impact on me. I'd like to, to help other veterans as well. Can I >>Ask you what made you hit that button? What made you apply? >>That's a great question. So I was one of the very fortunate ones that had a transition coach. I was in the military for 29 years and had a lot of great connections in the military and, and was connected to a coach, a transition coach and just exploring, you know, what that, what that would look like. And she was the one who said, Hey, why don't we, why don't we explore this passion of Motorsports that you have? My family had been going to, to Motorsports events for, you know, 50 years. And so, so I thought back, all right, this is, I like this idea. Let's, let's pursue this. So a quick Google search and operation Motorsport popped up and I hit the button and >>What programs are available in operation >>Motorsport? Yeah. So diesel kind of outline outlined it. We have basically three different programs. We have the, our immersion program, which is exactly what diesel described, where we take that veteran. And we actually immerse them in a race team. They're doing the, exactly what I was doing, doing tires and fuel and whatever the team needs them to do. We also have our emo sports program where folks who can't do the immersion program, immersion program is takes a pretty big time commitment sometimes. And so they just don't have the capacity or abilities to be able to do those. We could put 'em in our emo sports program where they can do it all virtually we're actually, we have a season going on right now where we, we have veterans racing in that emo sports program. And then we have a, a diversionary therapy program where we have a, a Patriot car corral set up at all these tracks. So they can go out with like-minded individuals and spend the day out there with those folks, other veterans. And we do pit pit tours and, and we get 'em out on the track for a little bit of a, you know, highway speeds, nothing ridiculous. But we, we did doing some highway speeds. So we have a, a few, few different ways for them to be >>Involved. So, so the number three is like a splash in the pond, whereas number ones, the, to like full immersion. Right? Correct. And so what are you doing in the full immersion? What is, what is that like? I mean, you're literally changing tires and, and, and you're >>Yeah. You name it. You're >>In the you're you're you're in that sort of sphere of battle, if you will. Right. >>The beauty of this is we could take somebody's capabilities and skill set and we can match it to whatever that looks like on a race team. Some people come in and have no experience whatsoever. And so we find a team that needs, you know, that has a development opportunities where they could come in, their, their initial job might be to fuel fuel cans or, you know, take tires off the car, wipe the car down, it's little things in the beginning. And then slowly as they start to grow and learn, then they take on bigger roles. But we also have different positions. They can be immersed in, in teams, but they can also be immersed in the series. So we have folks that are doing like tech inspections. We have folks that are doing race control up in the, up in the tower, directing race operations. So we have lots of opportunities, tons of potential. We, we foster those relationships and take the folks, whatever their capabilities and, and abilities are and find the right position for >>'em think, thinking about your personal experience, how, how did it, how would you say it affected you? >>Yeah. To understand that you really have to understand military transition. And I think that's where a lot of the folks that have never experienced this really struggle transition from the military is really difficult. And it's really difficult, even if you're, if you're not broken or you don't have some kind of illness or injury, but you add that factor into at the same time and it could be extremely difficult. And that's why we see like the 22, a day suicide rates with veterans, it's very, very high. Right? And so when you, when you come into this program, it, it is a little bit of a leap of faith, right? This is very new experience for somebody, right? For somebody like myself who had 29 years of experience in the military, very senior person in the military. And now you're at the bottom of the totem pole and trying to figure it all out again, it's, it's a, it's a big jump. But what you realize really quickly is a lot of the things that you experience in the military, you experience in that Pata, same exact things, lots of small team environment, lots of diversity, lots of challenges, lots of roadblocks ups downs, you, you deploy just like you would deploy in, in the military, you bring the cars to a track, you execute a mission, then you pack it up and bring it home. So it's, there's so many similarities in >>The process. I mean, yeah. Diesel hearing Craig explained that there are the similarities sound very clear, but, but, but how did how'd you come up with this idea? It makes sense now in retrospect, but somebody just said, Hey, you know, we have this and we have this and we can marry him or no, not >>Really. And it it's a funny story because I always said, I, I, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel, I believe in stealing the car. And so there's a sister organization that we have in the UK called mission Motorsport. And, and, and they invented this five years before we did. And, and they were successful. And I was, you know, through, through friendships and opportunities, I got to witness it in, in 2016. So went over to, to Wales in the UK and, and watched it in action. And we were there for one race weekend, race of remembrance, which is where we go back to, we'll be going back to November, taking 13 beneficiaries over to race in our own race team for a 12 hour race. And that's a whole other story, but that's where it all started. You know, we, we saw the opportunities and said, wow, they're changing lives through recovery, you know, through motor sport and the similarities and what they were achieving. >>Our initial goal was let's just come back and do this again next year, because we need to bring north American transitioning members over to, to witness this and take part. And then fast forward, we said, why stop there? And we stood up an organization. Now I'll tell you that the organization is not what it was, the, the initial vision. This is not where, I mean, I never imagine that we get to this point this day, especially with the announcement this morning, you know, with the partnership with CrowdStrike, it it's huge for us, but we've evolved into something that was very similar to the initial vision. And that was helping, helping medically transitioning service members with their own personal struggles and recovery. You know, the reason we call it operation Motorsport is because operations have no beginning and no end and our, and what we do makes us so different in that we're not a one and done, we take care of these guys. Even when they become alumni, they, they still come back. They, they come back to volunteer, they come back to check in their friends and, and all kinds. It's really, really neat. And, >>And JC of course, CrowdStrike has an affinity for Motorsports, right? You got the logo on the Mercedes. You you've got the safety car at, this is, I think it's called the safety car. Right. That's it? Yeah. So, okay. So that's an obvious connection, but, but where did the idea germinate for this partnership? >>There's so many things, but first and foremost, I think that the, the values of CrowdStrike and those of operation motors were very much aligned. If you think about it, we, we focus a lot on teamwork. There's no way we do these jobs without the teamwork part. We all love data. These guys are all in the data all the time, trying to figure out, you know, what your adversaries are doing. So there's that kind of component to it. And I'd say the last bit is critical thinking. So when we think about our organizations and how well aligned they are, that was a, that was a no brainer. And into the other side of it, we get the opportunity to do mentorship programs. I mean, I think both ways, hopefully I get invited to the Patriot corral. At some point I can go, go work on a car, but we'll do those both ways or mentorship opportunities. If folks from operation motor sport win a team up with a crowd striker. So >>Do you ever get to drive the car? Or is that just an awful question? No, that's >>A good question. Actually I do from the, from the track to the pits, very slow >>Speeds. They don't let you out in the train. That's right. No, I don't get to go out on the track. Diesel, you ever, you ever drive one >>Of these? I, I, I I've been on, on the track on, on different cars, not in the race cars that, that, that, that are on the team, but something that's unique in the Patriot corral, for instance, because JC brought that up is that when we do these Patriot corrals, part of that program at lunchtime is, is taking the individuals and doing parade laps. And now, you know, a parade lap. Well, what's the fun in that, but you drive highway speeds on a racetrack and your own personal car, following a pace car. That's a pretty cool experience. Cool. >>Yeah, that's very cool guys. Congratulations on this program and all your success and all the, the giving that you do for the community and, and your peers really appreciate you guys coming on the cube and telling me great story. Thanks >>For having, thanks for the opportunity. You're very >>Welcome. All right. Keep it right there. Everybody. Dave ante and Dave Nicholson, we'll be back from Falcon 2022 at the area in Las Vegas. You watching the cube.

>> Welcome back to FalCon 2022. This is Dave Vellante. We get a special presentation segment for you today. This is Walter Wall day one of day two's cube coverage. JC Herrera is here, he's my designated cohost. He's the chief human resource officer at CrowdStrike. Craig Neri is to my left. He's the beneficiary and the beneficiary trustee and ambassador of, of operation Motorsport and former US air force. Thank you for your service. >> Thank you. >> And Diezel Lodder, who is CEO and co-founder of operation Motorsport. Gents, welcome to the cube. Thanks so much for coming on. >> Thank you, Great to be here >> JC, set this up for us. Explain your role, explain the corporate giving, the whole student connection, and the veterans, take us through that. >> Yeah, sure. Yeah, so as, as head of HR, one of the one of the things that we do is, is help manage part of the corporate giving strategy. And, and one of those things that, that we love to do is to also invest in students and in our veterans, it's just a part of our giving program. So this partnership with operation Motorsport is really critical to that. And if you want to dive a little bit deeper into that we just see that there's a gigantic skills gap in cybersecurity. And so when we, when there's over millions of open roles around the world and 700,000 of them in the us alone, we've got to go close that gap. And so our next gen scholarships that come out of the, are giving funds are, are awarded to students who are studying cyber security or AI. And the other side of that, is that this partnership with operation Motorsport then, we get the opportunity to do some internships with veterans through operation Motorsport as well. >> The number is 700,000 now, but pre pandemic I remember number 350, 350,000. It's, it's doubled now just in the US, amazing. All right, diezel, tell us about the mission of operation Motorsport like who are the beneficiaries let's get into it. >> So operation Motorsport engages ill, injured wounded service members, those that are medically retiring from the service or disabled veterans these individuals will be taken out of their units. They lose their team identity, their purpose. And, and what we do is those that apply to the program and have a desire to work around shiny objects and fast cars and all the great smells or just car guys or gals that we have some of those as well. They, we, we bring them onto the teams as beneficiaries. So embed them into a race team and give them opportunity to find something new. We're a recovery program. We're not about, you know, finding jobs for these folks. It's about networking and getting out of that, you know out of the dark places where some of them end up going because this is a, a huge change for them. And, and in doing so, we now expose them to CrowdStrike. You know, that's, that's one of the new relationships that, that we have where potentially if they want to they can pursue new opportunities in areas like cybersecurity. >> And they're chosen through an application process you're, I, I'm inferring. >> Yep. They just go online and say, you know through word of mouth or through a friend or through the, the USO and other organizations, they go online and they click the apply here and they fill it out. And, our beneficiary trustee Craig, and calls them up and says, Hey, tell me about what you're looking for. And, and we, we pair them up with the race team. >> And Craig you're also a, a beneficiary in addition to being the beneficiary trustee. So explain that, what's your story? >> Right. So I started in this organization as a beneficiary. I was the one that hit the button on the website. And, and then a few minutes later, I got a phone call from then Tiffany Lodder, Diezel's wife, who's our executive director in the organization. And, and I had that same conversation that I now have with beneficiaries today. I did a, I did a full season with them last year in 2021 as a beneficiary. But at the end I realized how big of an impact that this has with folks. Transition can be very difficult, especially if they're ill injured or wounded. And so I asked if I could help if I could give back cause it meant such, it had such a big impact on me. I'd like to, to help other veterans as well. >> Can I ask you what made you hit that button? What made you apply? >> Oh, that's a great question. So I was one of the very fortunate ones that had a transition coach. I was in the military for 29 years and had a lot of great connections in the military and, and was connected to a coach, a transition coach and just exploring, you know what that, what that would look like and she was the one who say, why don't we, why don't we explore this passion of Motorsports that you have? My family had been going to, to Motorsports events for you know, 50 years. And so, so I thought back, all right, this is I like this idea. Let's, let's pursue this. So a quick Google search and operation Motorsport popped up and I hit the button. >> And what programs are available in operation Motorsport? >> And so, Diezel kind of outline, outlined it. We have basically three different programs. We have the, our immersion program, which is exactly what Diezel described, where we take that veteran and we actually immerse them in a race team they're doing the, exactly what I was doing, doing tires and fuel and whatever the team needs them to do. We also have our E-motor sports program where folks who can't do the immersion program, immersion program is takes a pretty big time commitment sometimes. And so, they just don't have the capacity or abilities to be able to do those. We could put them in our E-motor sports program where they can do it all virtually. we're actually, we have a season going on right now where we're, we have veterans racing in that E-motor sports program. And then we have a, the diversionary therapy program where we have a, a Patriot car corral set up at all these tracks so, they can go out with like-minded individuals and spend the day out there with those folks, other veterans. And we do pit, pit tours and, and we get 'em out on the track for a little bit of a, you know, highway speeds nothing ridiculous, but we, we been doing some highway speeds. So we have a, a few, few different ways for them to be involved. >> So, so the number three is like a splash in the pond whereas number one's the, like full immersion. >> Yeah, correct, yes. >> And so what are you doing in the full immersion? What is, what is that like? I mean you're literally changing tires and, and you're, >> Yeah. You name it. >> In the, you're, you're in that sort of sphere of battle, if you will. >> The beauty of this is we could take somebody's capabilities and skill set and we can match it to whatever that looks like on a race team. Some people come in and have no experience whatsoever. And so we find a team that needs, you know, that has a development opportunities where they could come in, their, their initial job might be to fuel fuel cans or, you know, take tires off the car or wipe the car down, it's little things in the beginning. And then slowly as they start to grow and learn then they take on bigger roles. But we also have different positions. They can be immersed in, in teams, but they can also be immersed in the series. So we have folks that are doing like tech inspections. We have folks that are doing race control up in the, up in the tower, directing race operations. So, we have lots of opportunities, tons of potential. We, we foster those relationships and take the folks and whatever their capabilities and, and abilities are and find the right position for them. >> Think, thinking about your personal experience, how, how did it, how would you say it affected you? >> Yeah, um, to understand that you really have to understand military transition. And I think that's where a lot of the folks that have never experienced this really struggle. transition from the military is really difficult. And it's really difficult, even if you're, if you're not broke and, or you don't have some kind of illness or injury but, you add that factor into it at the same time and it could be extremely difficult. And that's why we see like the 22 a day suicide rates with veterans, it's very, very high, Right? And so when you, when you come into this program, it's, it is a little bit of a leap of faith, right? This is very new experience for somebody, right? For somebody like myself who had 29 years of experience in the military, very senior person in the military. And now you're at the bottom of the totem pole and trying to figure it all out again, it's, it's a it's a big jump. But, what you realize really quickly is a lot of the things that you experience in the military you experience in that paddock, same exact things, lots of, small team environment, lots of diversity, lots of challenges, lots of roadblocks ups downs, you, you'd deploy just like you would deploy in, in the military you bring the cars to a track, you execute a mission then you pack it up and bring it home. So it's, there's so many similarities in the process. >> I mean, yeah. Diezel hear, hearing Craig explained that there are, the similarities sound very clear, but, but, but how did how'd you come up with this idea? (Diezel laughs) It makes sense now in retrospect, but, somebody just said Hey, you know, we have this and we have this and we can marry them or... >> No, not really. And it, it's a funny story because I always said, I, I, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel I believe in stealing the car. And so there's a sister organization that we have in the UK called mission Motorsport. And, and, and they invented this five years before we did. And, and they were successful. And I was, you know, through, through friendships and opportunities, I got to witness it in, in 2016. So went over to, to Wales in, in the UK and, and watched it in action. And we were there for one race weekend, race of remembrance which is where we go back to we'll be going back to November, taking 13 beneficiaries over to race in our own race team for a 12 hour race. And that's a whole other story but that's where it all started. You know, we, we saw the opportunities and said, wow they're changing lives through recovery, you know through Motorsport and the similarities and what they were achieving, our initial goal was let's just come back and do this again next year, because we need to bring north American transitioning members over to, to witness this and take part. And then fast forward, we said, why stop there? And we, stood up an organization. Now, I'll tell you that the organization is not what it was the initial vision, this not where, I mean I never imagine that we get to this point this day especially with the announcement this morning, you know with the partnership with CrowdStrike, it it's huge for us but, we've evolved into something that was very similar to the initial vision. And that was, helping, helping medically transitioning service members with their own personal struggles and recovery. You know, the reason we call it operation Motorsport is because operations have no beginning and no end and our, and what we do makes us so different in that we're not a one and done, we take care of these guys. Even when they become alumni, they, they still come back. They, they come back to volunteer they come back to check in their friends and, and all kinds, it's really, really neat. >> And, and JC of course CrowdStrike has an affinity for Motorsports, right? You got the logo on the Mercedes. You, you've got the safety car at this. I think it's called the safety car, right? >> That's it, yeah. >> So, okay. So that's an obvious connection, but, but where did the idea germinate for this partnership? >> There's so many things, but first and foremost, I think that the, the values of CrowdStrike and those of operation motors were very much aligned. If you think about it, we, we focus a lot on teamwork. There's no way we do these jobs without the teamwork part. We all love data. These guys are all in the data all the time trying to figure out, you know, what your adversaries are doing. So there's that kind of component to it. And I'd say the last bit is critical thinking. So when we think about our organizations and how well aligned they are, that was a, that was a no brainer. And into the other side of it, we get the opportunity to do mentorship programs. I mean, I think both ways, hopefully I get invited to the Patriot corral at some point I can go, go work on a car but, we'll do those both ways or mentorship opportunities. If folks from operation Motorsport win a team up with a CrowdStrikers. >> Do you ever get to drive the car? Or is that just an awful question? >> No, it's a good question. Actually I do from the from the track to the pits at, you know, very slow speeds. >> They don't let you out on the track? >> That's right, no, I don't get to go out the track. >> Diezel You ever, you ever drive one of these? >> I, I, I, I've been on, on the track on, on different cars not in the race cars that, that, that that are on the team, but something that's unique in the Patriot corral, for instance, because JC brought that up, is that when we do these Patriot corrals part of that program at lunchtime is, is taking the individuals and doing parade laps. And I'll, you know, a parade lap, well, what's the fun in that? but you drive highway speeds on a racetrack and your own personal car following a pace car, that's a pretty cool experience. >> Yeah, that's very cool. Guys, congratulations on this program and all your success and all the, the giving that you do for the community and, and your peers, really appreciate you guys coming on The Cube and telling your story. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for the opportunity. >> You're very welcome. All right, keep it right there everybody. Dave Vellante and Dave Nicholson, we'll be back from FalCon 2022, at the ARIA in Las Vegas. You're watching the cube. (relaxing music)

>> Announcer: "theCUBE" presents "Kubecon and Cloudnativecon Europe, 2022" brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Valencia, Spain and "Kubecon + Cloudnativecon Europe, 2022." I'm Keith Townsend, and we're continuing the conversations with amazing people doing amazing things. I think we've moved beyond a certain phase of the hype cycle when it comes to Kubernetes. And we're going to go a little bit in detail with that today, and on all the sessions, I have today with me, Taylor Dolezal. New head of CNCF Ecosystem. So, first off, what does that mean new head of? You're the head of CNCF Ecosystem? What is the CNCF Ecosystem? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's really the end user ecosystem. So, the CNCF is comprised of really three pillars. And there's the governing board, they oversee the budget and fun things, make sure everything's signed and proper. Then there's the Technical Oversight Committee, TOC. And they really help decide the technical direction of the organization through deliberation and talking about which projects get invited and accepted. Projects get donated, and the TOC votes on who's going to make it in, based on all this criteria. And then, lastly, is the end user ecosystem, that encompasses a whole bunch of different working groups, special interest groups. And that's been really interesting to kind of get a deeper sense into, as of late. So, there are groups like the developer experience group, and the user research group. And those have very specific focuses that kind of go across all industries. But what we've seen lately, is that there are really deep wants to create, whether it be financial services user group, and things like that, because end users are having trouble with going to all of the different meetings. If you're a company, a vendor member company that's selling authentication software, or something in networking, makes sense to have a SIG network, SIG off, and those kinds of things. But when it comes down to like Boeing that just joined, does that make sense for them to jump into all those meetings? Or does it make sense to have some other kind of thing that is representative of them, so that they can attend that one thing, it's specific to their industry? They can get that download and kind of come up to speed, or find the best practices as quickly as possible in a nice synthesized way. >> So, you're 10 weeks into this role. You're coming from a customer environment. So, talk to me a little bit about the customer side of it? When you're looking at something, it's odd to call CNCF massive. But it is, 7.1 million members, and the number of contributing projects, et cetera. Talk to me about the view from the outside versus the view now that you're inside? >> Yeah, so honestly, it's been fun to kind of... For me, it's really mirrored the open-source journey. I've gone to Kubecon before, gotten to enjoy all of the booths, and trying to understand what's going on, and then worked for HashiCorp before coming to the CNCF. And so, get that vendor member kind of experience working the booth itself. So, kind of getting deeper and deeper into the stack of the conference itself. And I keep saying, vendor member and end user members, the difference between those, is end users are not organizations that sell cloud native services. Those are the groups that are kind of more consuming, the Airbnbs, the Boeings, the Mercedes, these people that use these technologies and want to kind of give that feedback back to these projects. But yeah, very incredibly massive and just sprawling when it comes to working in all those contexts. >> So, I have so many questions around, like the differences between having you as an end user and in inter-operating with vendors and the CNCF itself. So, let's start from the end user lens. When you're an end user and you're out discovering open-source and cloud native products, what's that journey like? How do you go from saying, okay, I'm primarily focused on vendor solutions, to let me look at this cloud native stack? >> Yeah, so really with that, there's been, I think that a lot of people have started to work with me and ask for, "Can we have recommended architectures? Can we have blueprints for how to do these things?" When the CNCF doesn't want to take that position, we don't want to kind of be the king maker and be like, this is the only way forward. We want to be inclusive, we want to pull in these projects, and kind of give everyone the same boot strap and jump... I missing the word of it, just ability to kind of like springboard off of that. Create a nice base for everybody to get started with, and then, see what works out, learn from one another. I think that when it comes to Kubernetes, and Prometheus, and some other projects, being able to share best practices between those groups of what works best as well. So, within all of the separations of the CNCF, I think that's something I've found really fun, is kind of like seeing how the projects relate to those verticals and those groups as well. Is how you run a project, might actually have a really good play inside of an organization like, "I like that idea. Let's try that out with our team." >> So, like this idea of springboarding. You know, is when an entrepreneur says, "You know what? I'm going to quit my job and springboard off into doing something new." There's a lot of uncertainty, but for enterprise, that can be really scary. Like we're used to our big vendors, HashiCorp, VMware, Cisco kind of guiding us and telling us like, what's next? What is that experience like, springboarding off into something as massive as cloud native? >> So, I think it's really, it's a great question. So, I think that's why the CNCF works so well, is the fact that it's a safe place for all these companies to come together, even companies of competing products. you know, having that common vision of, we want to make production boring again, we don't want to have so much sprawl and have to take in so much knowledge at once. Can we kind of work together to create all these things to get rid of our adminis trivia or maintenance tasks? I think that when it comes to open-source in general, there's a fantastic book it's called "Working in Public," it's by Stripe Press. I recommend it all over the place. It's orange, so you'll recognize it. Yeah, it's easy to see. But it's really good 'cause it talks about the maintainer journey, and what things make it difficult. And so, I think that that's what the CNCF is really working hard to try to get rid of, is all this monotonous, all these monotonous things, filing issues, best practices. How do you adopt open-source within your organization? We have tips and tricks, and kind of playbooks in ways that you could accomplish that. So, that's what I find really useful for those kinds of situations. Then it becomes easier to adopt that within your organization. >> So, I asked Priyanka, CNCF executive director last night, a pretty tough question. And this is kind of in the meat of what you do. What happens when you? Let's pick on service mesh 'cause everyone likes to pick on service mesh. >> XXXX: Yeah. >> What happens when there's differences at that vendor level on the direction of a CIG or a project, or the ecosystem around service mesh? >> Yeah, so that's the fun part. Honestly, is 'cause people get to hash it out. And so, I think that's been the biggest thing for me finding out, was that there's more than one way to do thing. And so, I think it always comes down to use case. What are you trying to do? And then you get to solve after that. So, it really is, I know it depends, which is the worst answer. But I really do think that's the case, because if you have people that are using something within the automotive space, or in the financial services space, they're going to have completely different needs, wants, you know, some might need to run Coball or Fortran, others might not have to. So, even at that level, just down to what your tech stack looks like, audits, and those kinds of things, that can just really differ. So, I think it does come down to something more like that. >> So, the CNCF loosely has become kind of a standards body. And it's centered around the core project Kubernetes? >> Mm-hmm. >> So, what does it mean, when we're looking at larger segments such as service mesh or observability, et cetera, to be Kubernetes compliant? Where's the point, if any, that the CNCF steps in versus just letting everyone hash it out? Is it Kubernetes just need to be Kubernetes compliant and everything else is free for all? >> Honestly, in many cases, it's up to the communities themselves to decide that. So, the groups that are running OCI, the Open Container Interface, Open Storage Interface, all of those things that we've agreed on as ways to implement those technologies, I think that's where the CNCF, that's the line. That's where the CNCF gets up to. And then, it's like we help foster those communities and those conversations and asking, does this work for you? If not, let's talk about it, let's figure out why it might not. And then, really working closely with community to kind of help bring those things forward and create action items. >> So, it's all about putting the right people in the rooms and not necessarily playing referee, but to get people in the right room to have and facilitate the conversation? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Like all of the booths behind us could have their own conferences, but we want to bring everybody together to have those conversations. And again, sprawling can be really wild at certain times, but it's good to have those cross understandings, or to hear from somebody that you're like, "Oh, my goodness, I didn't even think about that kind of context or use case." So, really inclusive conversation. >> So, organizations like Boeing, Adobe, Microsoft, from an end user perspective, it's sometimes difficult to get those organizations into these types of communities. How do you encourage them to participate in the conversation 'cause their voice is extremely important? >> Yeah, that I'd also say it really is the community. I really liked the Kubernetes documentary that was put out, working with some of the CNCF folks and core, and beginning Kubernetes contributors and maintainers. And it just kind of blew me away when they had said, you know, what we thought was success, was seeing Kubernetes in an Amazon Data Center. That's when we knew that this was going to take root. And you'd rarely hear that, is like, "When somebody that we typically compete with, its success is seeing it, seeing them use that." And so, I thought was really cool. >> You know, I like to use this technology for my community of skipping rope. You see the girls and boys jumping double Dutch rope. And you think, "I can do that. Like it's just jumping." But there's this hesitation to actually, how do you start? How do you get inside of it? The question is how do you become a member of the community? We've talked a lot about what happens when you're in the community. But how do you join the community? >> So, really, there's a whole bunch of ways that you can. Actually, the shirt that I'm wearing, I got from the 114 Release. So, this is just a fun example of that community. And just kind of how welcoming and inviting that they are. Really, I do think it's kind of like a job breaker. Almost you start at the outside, you start using these technologies, even more generally like, what is DevOps? What is production? How do I get to infrastructure, architecture, or software engineering? Once you start there, you start working your way in, you develop a stack, and then you start to see these tools, technologies, workflows. And then, after you've kind of gotten a good amount of time spent with it, you might really enjoy it like that, and then want to help contribute like, "I like this, but it would be great to have a function that did this. Or I want a feature that does that." At that point in time, you can either take a look at the source code on GitHub, or wherever it's hosted, and then start to kind of come up with that, some ideas to contribute back to that. And then, beyond that, you can actually say, "No, I kind of want to have these conversations with people." Join in those special interest groups, and those meetings to kind of talk about things. And then, after a while, you can kind of find yourself in a contributor role, and then a maintainer role. After that, if you really like the project, and want to kind of work with community on that front. So, I think you had asked before, like Microsoft, Adobe and these others. Really it's about steering the projects. It's these communities want these things, and then, these companies say, "Okay, this is great. Let's join in the conversation with the community." And together again, inclusivity, and bringing everybody to the table to have that discussion and push things forward. >> So, Taylor, closing message. What would you want people watching this show to get when they think about ecosystem and CNCF? >> So, ecosystem it's a big place, come on in. Yeah, (laughs) the water's just fine. I really want people to take away the fact that... I think really when it comes down to, it really is the community, it's you. We are the end user ecosystem. We're the people that build the tools, and we need help. No matter how big or small, when you come in and join the community, you don't have to rewrite the Kubernetes scheduler. You can help make documentation that much more easy to understand, and in doing so, helping thousands of people, If I'm going through the instructions or reading a paragraph, doesn't make sense, that has such a profound impact. And I think a lot of people miss that. It's like, even just changing punctuation can have such a giant difference. >> Yeah, I think people sometimes forget that community, especially community-run projects, they need product managers. They need people that will help with communications, people that will help with messaging, websites updating. Just reachability, anywhere from developing code to developing documentation, there's ways to jump in and help the community. From Valencia, Spain, I'm Keith Townsend, and you're watching "theCUBE," the leader in high tech coverage. (bright upbeat music)

>>Welcome to the cubes coverage of C CFS, co con EU cloud native con in Valencia Spain, I'm John furrier. This is a preview interview with the co-chairs versus we have Jasmine James senior engineering manager and of developer experience and Coon cloud native con EU co-chair and RI ricotta Rocher computing engineer at CERN and Coon co-chair as well at EU. Great to have you both on great to see you, both of you, >>Hey, to be here, >>Us >>Keep alumni. So, you know, Coon just continues to roll and get bigger and bigger, um, and watching all the end user action watching the corporations enterprises come in and just all the open source projects being green litted and just all the developer onboarding has been amazing. So it should be a great EU and Vale span, great venue. A lot of people I I'm talking to are very excited, so let's get into it as co-chairs take us through kind of the upcoming schedule at a very high level. Then I wanna dig into, uh, some of the new insights into selection and program programming that you guys had to go through. I know every year it's hard. So let's start with the overall upcoming schedule for COCOM. >>Yeah. So I'll dive into that. So the schedule is represents a, quite a diverse set of topics. I would say, um, I personally am a fan of those, you know, more personal talks from an end user perspective. There's also like a lot of the representation from a community perspective and how folks can get involved. Um, as most of, you know, like our tracks, the types of tracks has evolved over the year as well. So we now have a community track student track. So it's gonna be very exciting to hear content within those tracks, um, through in Valencia. So a very exciting schedule. Um, yeah. >>And just real quick for the folks watching it's virtual and physical it's hybrid event May 4th through seventh Ricardo, what's your take on the schedule? Uh, how do you see it breaking down from a high level standpoint? >>Yeah, so, um, I'm pretty excited. Um, I think the, the fact that this hybrid will help keep, um, build on the experiences we had, uh, during the pandemic times to, to give a better experience for people not making, uh, it to Valencia. I'm pretty excited also about the number of co-located events. So the two days before the conference will include, uh, um, a large number of co-located events, focusing on security S uh, and some new stuff for like batch and HPC workloads that I'm pretty close to as well. Uh, and then some, some really good consolidation in some tracks like this value, which I think will be quite, quite interesting as well. >>So you mentioned this is gonna be like watch parties, people gonna be creating kind of satellite events. Is that what you're referring to, uh, in terms of the physical space gonna be an event, obviously, um, what's going on around, outside the event, either online or as part of the program. >>So, yeah, uh, the, the, all the sessions, uh, from, from the collocated events will be available virtually as well. I don't know if people will actually be setting up parties everywhere. <laugh>, I'm sure some people will. Yeah, >>There'll definitely be >>Some. And then for, for, for the conference itself, there will be dedicated rooms where for the virtual talks, uh, people can just join in and sit for a while and watch the virtual talks and then go back to the in person, ones, uh, Monday feel >>Like, yeah, it's always a good event. Uh, Jasmine, we talked about this last time and Ricardo, we always get into the hood as well. What's the vibe on the, the, the, the programming. And honestly, people wanna get, give talks. There's a virtual component, which opens up more aperture, uh, for more community and more actions as, as Ricardo pointed out. What's what was the process this year? Because we're seeing a lot of big trends emerge, obviously securities front and center, um, end user projects are growing data engineering is a new persona. That's just really emerged out of kind of the growth of data and the role of data that it plays and containers. And, and with Kubernetes, just a lot of action. What's the, what was it like this year in, in the selection process for the program? >>Yeah, I mean, the selection process is always lots of fun for the co-chairs. Um, you shout out to program committee, track chairs, you put in a lot of great work and reviewing talks and, and it's just a very, very thorough process. So kudos to all of us who are getting through it for this year. I think that lots of things emerge, but I still feel like security is top of mind for a lot of folks, like security is really has provided. One of the biggest, um, submissions is from, from a quantity perspective, there are tons of talks submitted for security track, and that just kind of speaks for itself, right? This is something that the cloud native community cares about, and there's still a lot of innovation and people wanna voice what they're doing and share it. >>Ricardo, what's your take, we've had a lot of chats around not only some of the hardcore tech, but some of the new waves that are emerging out of the growth, the mature maturization of, of, of the segment. What are you seeing, uh, as terms of like the, the key things that came out during the, the process? >>Yeah, exactly. So I think I would highlight something that Jasmine said, which is the, the emergency emergence of some new tracks as well. Uh, she mentioned the student track, but also we added a research track, which is actually the first time we'll have it. So I'm pretty excited about that. Of course, uh, then for the trends, clearly security observability are, uh, massive tracks for app dev operations, uh, extending Kubernetes had also a lot of submissions. Um, I think the, the main things I saw that, uh, kind of, uh, gain a bit of more consistency is the part for the business value. And, uh, the, the, the fact that people are now looking more at the second step, like managing cloud costs, uh, how to optimize, uh, spot usage and, um, usage of GPUs for machine learning, things like this. So I'm pretty excited. And all these hybrid deployments also is something that keeps coming back. So those were, are the ones that, uh, I, I think came out from, from, from the submission at this time, >>You know, it's interesting as the growth comes in, you see these cool new things happen, but there are also signs of problems that need to be solved to create opportunities. Jasmine, you mentioned security. Um, there's a lot of big trends, scale Ricardo kind of hinting at the scale piece of it, but there's all this now new things, the security posture changes, uh, as you shift left, it's not, it's not, it's not over when you shift left in security in the pipeline in there, but it's, there's audits. There's the size of, uh, the security elements, uh, there's bill of materials. Now, people who got supply chains, these are huge conversations right now in the industry, supply chain security, um, scale data, uh, optimization management, um, notifications, all this is built in, built into a whole nother level. What do you guys see in the key trends in the cloud native ecosystem? >>I, I would say that a lot of the key trends, like you said, it, right, these things are not going anywhere. It's actually coming to a point of maturation. Um, I see more of a focus on how consuming, how, how companies go about consuming these different capabilities. What is that experience like? There's a talk that's gonna be offered, um, as a keynote, um, just about that security and leveraging developers to scale security within your environment. And not only is it a tool problem, it's a mindset thing that you have to be able to get over and partner bridge gaps between teams in order to make this, um, a reality within, within, um, people, within certain organizations. So I see the experience part of it, um, coming a big, a big thing. Um, there's multiple talks about that. >>Ricardo, what's your take on these trends? Cause I look at the, the, the paragraph of the projects now it's like this big used to be like a couple sentences. Now you got more projects coming on, you got the rookies in there and you got the, the veterans, the veteran projects in there. So this speaks volumes to kind of things like notaries new, right? So this is cool. Wait, what does that mean? Okay. Security auditing all this is happening. What are the, what are the big trends that you're excited about that you see that people are gonna be digging in, in, in the pro in, in the event? >>Yeah, I think we, we, we talked about supply chain just before. I think that's, that's a big one. We, we saw a, a keynote back in north America already introducing this, and we saw a lot of consolidation happening now in projects, but also companies supporting this project. Um, I, I'm also quite interested, interested in the evolution of Kubernetes in the sense that it's not just for, what was it, it was traditionally used for like traditional it services and scaling. We start seeing, there will be a very cool keynote from, from deploying, uh, Kubernetes at the edge, but really at the edge with the lower orbit satellites running ES in basically, uh, space. So those things I think are, are, are very cool. Like we start seeing really a lot of consolidation, but also people looking at Kubernetes for, for pretty crazy things, which is very exciting. >>Yeah. You mention, you mentioned space that really takes us to a whole edge, another level of edge thinking, um, you know, I've had many conversations around how do you do break fixing space with some folks in, in the space industry, in, in public sector, software is key in all this. And again, back to open source, open source has to be secured. It has to be, be able to managed effectively. It needs to be optimized into the new workflows space is one of them, you know, you see in, um, 5g edge is huge, uh, with new kind of apps that are being built there. So open source plays a big role in all this. So the, the question I wanna ask you guys is as open source continues to grow and it's growing, we're seeing startups emerge with the playbook of you. You play an open source or you actually create a project and then you get funding behind it because I know at least three or four VCs here in Silicon valley that look at the projects and say, they're looking for deals. And they're saying, keep it open a whole nother level. Can you guys share your insights on how the ecosystem's, uh, evolving with entrepreneurship and, and startups? >>Uh, oh, I guess I'll start. Um, I think that it's such a healthy thing, um, to have such innovation occurring, um, is it's really just, uh, Testament as to how the cloud native community right. Nurtures and cultivates these ideas and provides a great framework for them to develop over time, going from, you know, the sandbox and incubating and graduating and having the support of a solid framework, I think is a lot of the reason why a lot of these projects grow so quickly and reach certain these high levels of adoption. Um, so it's a really fantastic thing to see. I think that, you know, VCC an opportunity and, and, and there's a lot of great innovation that can be, you know, operationalized and scaled, right. Um, and applied to a lot of industries. So I feel it, I feel like it's a very healthy thing. Um, it also creates a lot of opportunities about something I'm passionate about, which is like, you know, people getting involved in open source as a step into the world of tech. Um, so all of these projects coming about provide an opportunity for folks to get involved in a particular component they're interested in and then grow their career in open source. So really great thing, in my opinion. >>And you mentioned the student track, by the way, I kept to point that out. I mean, that's huge. That's gonna be a lot of people who have, you know, in computer science programs or self learning. I mean, the, the, the ability to get up to speed, uh, from a development standpoint, as a coder, um, you can be a rural comp SI or, uh, just a practitioner just coding. I mean, data's everywhere. So data engineering, coding, I mean, Ricardo, this is huge student and then just every sector's opening up. I mean, the color codes on the calendar is, uh, larger than ever before. >>Yeah. I think, yeah, the, the diversity of the usage and the communities is, is something that is really important and it's been growing still. So I, I think this one not stop. Um, I'm pretty, pretty, pretty excited to see also how we'll handle this growth, because as you mentioned, like everything is increasing in numbers, number of projects, number of startups around this project. Uh, so one, one thing that I'm particularly interested on as an end user is to understand also how to help other end users that are jumping in not only the, the developers or, or the people wanting to support these projects, but also the end users. How, how do they choose their sta how, how it's, how, how should they look like for their use cases, much more than just going, uh, from, from the selection, individual projects to understand how they, they work together. So I think this is a challenge for, for the next couple of years. >>Yeah. I mean, roll your own and building blocks, whatever you wanna call it, you're starting to see people, uh, build their own stacks. And that's not a bad thing. It might be a feature, not a bug. >>Yeah. I, I would agree that I think it's something that we have to work on, uh, together to, to, to help, especially people starting in the ecosystem, but also for, for the experienced ones that start looking at other use cases as well. >>Okay. Jasmine, we talked about this last time, you gotta pick a favorite, uh, child in the, in the, in the agenda. Uh, what's your favorite session? Um, and you gotta pick one or three or maybe put handful, um, as you guys look through this year, what's the theme. I mean, people like you can kind of sense what's happening. Uh, when you look at the agenda, obviously observability is in there, all these great stuff's in there, but what's the, what's your favorite, um, uh, project or topic this year that, uh, you're jazzed about >>For me, I I'd say there's such diverse, um, topics that are being presented both on the keynote stage and throughout, um, the various tracks. I will just reference, um, the talk that I, I sort of alluded to earlier about, um, leveraging developers to scale Kubernetes. Um, it's a talk given by red hat on the keynote stage. Um, I just think it, you know, the abstracts will me because it's talks about bridging two different roles together, um, and scaling what we all know to be so important within the cloud native space, security and Kubernetes. So it's something that's very like real for me, um, in, in my current role and previous roles. So I think that that's the one that spoke to me. >>Awesome. Ricardo, what's your favorite, uh, this year? What do you, what do you, uh, if you had to put a little gold star on something that you're interested in, what it would it be? >>I think I hinted on, on it just before, which is, uh, I'm, I'm kind of a space enthusiast. So all, all this idea of running Kubernetes in space, um, makes me very excited. So really looking forward to that one, but as an end user, I'm also very interested in talks. Uh, like the one Mercedes will be doing, which is the transition from a kind of a more traditional company to this, uh, uh, more modern world of, uh, cloud native. And I'm quite interested to hear how, how, what their experience has been has been like in the last few years. >>Well, you guys do a great job. I love chatting with you and I love, uh, CNCF and following from the beginning, we were there when it was, when it was created and watched it grow from an insider perspective, the hyperscalers people who are really kind of eating glass and building scale, you know, SREs. Now you have, you have the SRE concept going kind of global mainstream, seeing enterprises and end users contributing and participating enterprises, getting, connecting those two worlds. Jasmine, as you said, as you look at that, you're starting to see the scale piece become huge. You mentioned it a little bit earlier, Jasmine, the SRE role was specific to servers and cloud. You're kind of seeing that kind of role needed for this kind of cloud native layer. We're seeing it with data engineering. It's not for the faint of heart. It may not be a persona. That's got zillions of people, but it scales. It's like an SRE role. You're seeing that with this kind of monitoring and, and with containers and Kubernetes where it's gotta get easier and scale, how do you guys see that? Do you see that emerging in the community, this, this kind of new scale role and, um, what is it, what is this trend? Or maybe I'm misrepresenting it or maybe I'm sensing it wrong, but what do you guys think about the scale piece? How is that F falling into place? >>Yeah, I, I think that is, um, adoption, like, or there's more saturation of, of cloud native technologies within any environment. Um, most in most companies realize that you have to have that represented right within the role that is managing it. Um, if you wanna have it be reliable. Um, so I think that a lot of roles are adopting those behaviors, right. In order to be able to sustain this within their environment and learning as they start to implement these things. Um, so I see that to be something that just happens. Um, we saw it was like DevOps, right? You know, engineers were starting to adopt, you know, working on the systems versus just, you know, working on software. Um, so it's sort of like encompassing all the things, right. We're, we're seeing a shift in the role and, and the behaviors that are within it in order to maintain these cloud native services. So >>Ricardo, what's your take, we've been seeing engineers get to the front lines more and more. Uh, you guys mentioned business value as one of the tracks and, uh, focus topics this year, it's happening, engineers and developers. They're getting in the front lines cuz as you move up that stack, whether it's a headless system for retail or deploying something in another sector, they gotta be in the front lines. If you're gonna be in doing machine learning and have data, you gotta have domain scales about what the business is. Right? >>Yeah. I, I, I agree very much with what Jasmine said and, and uh, if we add this for, for kind of the business value and the, this opportu opportunistic usage of, uh, all types of resources that can come from basically anywhere these days, I think this is, this is really becoming, um, a real role to, to understand how, how to best, uh, use all of this and uh, to, to make the best of all this available resources. When we start talking about, uh, CPUs, it's already important. If we start talking about GPU's, which are more scar or some sort of specialized accelerators, then, then it becomes really like something that, uh, you, you need people that know where, where to go and fish for those. Cause they, they, you can just build your own data center and, and scale that anymore. So you really need to understand what's out there. >>Applications gotta have the security posture nailed down. They gotta have it. Automation built in. You gotta have the observability, you gotta have the business value. I mean, it sounds like a mature industry developing here finally. It's happening. Good job guys. Thanks for coming on the queue. Really appreciate it. >>Thank you. Thank you for having >>Us. And we'll see the cube here at Koon cloud native con May 16th through the 20th in Vale Spain, the cube will be there. We'll have some online coverage as well. Look for the virtual from CNCF. The cube will bring all the, all the action. I'm John fur, your host, see you in Spain and see you on the 16th.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover. Virtual experience Brought to you by HP >>Everybody welcome back to the Cube's continuous coverage of Discover 2020. That virtual experience. The Cube has been been virtualized really excited to have Marissa Freeman here. She's the chief brand officer, Hewlett Packard Enterprise. And, of course, he joined by Jim Jackson. Who's the CMO of HP? Guys, Great to see you Wish we were face to face. But thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Great to be here. Hope that you and your family and your friends are safe and well, >>and we're back at you both. Jim, let me start with you. So, uh, this kind of got dumped on you with this pandemic. Different mindset. You have to do a bit flip to goto virtual you talk about some of the things that you focused in on some of the things you want to keep. And some of the things you knew you couldn't. And you had to do things differently. >>Yeah, You know, we pretty much had to rethink everything about this event platforms, how we thought about messaging, how we thought about content. Um audience acquisition demos, really everything. And for us, it really all boiled down to having a vision. And our vision was to bring the Discover experience, all that energy, the excitement that you get the in person event. We wanted to bring that to all of our customers and our partners and our team members around the world. So for us, it wasn't about virtualized discover. It was about bringing the Discover experience to a 12 inch screen. In many cases for our customers and our partners and our team members, I think another thing that was really eye opening for us. Waas thinking of opening up the aperture and thinking, Hey, we can now take this and drive. This is the true global events and we can reach people all over the world, reach customers and partners that can't come to discover because they can't physically come to the event. That was a couple of things that really we had to put a lot of thought into, and it was really exciting for us. I think one other thing is now customers, and how we think about their experience at the event became very, very important for us because you know, at an in person event, it's three days, and we can you know, there's a lot of things people can do, but you have three days of content, and then people move on for us. Now. Our customers might go through three weeks or three months, and we really needed to think about that experience in a very simple, seamless, easy way for them so that they could to consume the content digitally in a way that made the most sense for them. So a lot of new thinking for us. But we're really excited about the opportunities that virtual brings in that digital brings >>now immerse. So I gotta ask you so No, no meter boards at least know for a physical meter boards, you know, How did you think about continuing that branding in a virtual event? >>Well, it's, uh, it's really a beautiful experience when you look at the the intro of the platform that we're on. It's beautifully branded all the way throughout. The branding is really coming through, though, in the content, um, and in the people, So we always say, Jim and I always say every year, Gosh, if we could just have every estimate on every prospect come to discover they would see our brand come to life they would feel are our purpose. They would understand, just with a new and different energized and fully charged a company, we are they would get to meet Antonio and Security. And Liz and Jennifer Income are honored and Jim and feel for themselves, uh, the power of the company. And now everyone can So the brand really is coming to life through the people. I appreciate that you love the the beautiful graphics, and we work really hard. Um, I'm all of that stuff, Sure, but the real branding is in the content itself. So >>now, Jim asses. Well, you were kind of lucky in the sense that, you know, this show wasn't in March or April. You had some time. So to see what others were doing. And you saw early on when this thing first hit, there were some the missteps there, There's there, still are even. But So what do you What do you tell people that is really unique about the Discover virtual experience? >>Yeah, I think a couple things and you're right. We did have a little more runway, and that was to our advantage. But we feel like we've taken full advantage of it. I think the first is coming back to that global experience that I talked about. So we're delivering this on 10 different with translating into 10 different languages, and that makes it easy for people to consume our key content around the world. We're truly delivering our content on time zones that are very appropriate, or our customers and our partners again, all around the world, in different Geos, we're bringing in our geo MVS where they are now having geo lounges, um, specific addresses and other things locally that really enables us to have that local experience. But derive it is making it part of a global event. I think another thing, Dave and you've been Teoh Discover. But you've seen that amazing Discover Expo Hall that we have out there with, you know, literally thousands of people and lots of demos. We had to figure out How do we bring that to a a ah, digital or a virtual experience? And I think the teams have done just an amazing job here. So what we did is we have 61 demos, and this is part of really 150 sessions. But if you just think of demos, we're going to deliver these live over 1717 100 times the first week. That's really, really powerful. This is >>live, meaning >>somebody from HP, a subject matter expert, talking to our customers, answering questions in real time. So that's unique. I think another thing that we're doing is we're not stopping after the first week. The first week is going to be extremely powerful and we can't wait for it. And but, you know, we're gonna extend, if you will, the value we're gonna double click and follow on Wave focused on SMB. Focus on software and containers for more of a developer, audience, Cloud services and other things like that, as well as data and storage. And then finally, I'll say, You know, we're really excited about the great speakers that we have Marissa >>talks >>about. You know, Antonio Qwerty, Irv etcetera. But we've got some great outside speakers as well. Lewis Hamilton from Mercedes Formula 16 time Formula One champion Simone Biles, uh, who's Olympian and world champion, 25 medals. We've got Steve Kerr and they're going to be part of a panel talking about performing under pressure, and we're all doing that. But it's gonna be again a great story we've got, um, John Chambers is going to be joining Antonio and talking about what great companies do during a crisis and how they prepare to come out of this kind of a situation to deliver better solutions to their customers. Soledad O Brien, who is moderating, are women leaders in I t session, and this is one of our most powerful sessions. In fact, Marissa is part of that as well. So we're really excited about this, the amount of things that we were able to bring together. And of course, we also have our CEO Summit and our Global Partner Summit happening at the same time. So we've got a lot of things that we've been able to coordinate all of this and really think about the experience from a digital in a virtual expect perspective to make it great for our customers and our partners and our attendees. A >>lot of rich content layers. Yeah. So what if you could talk about that here here to help Sort of the cultural aspects of that. What it means to your customers, your clients, your employees and your just broader community. >>Well, you know, Dave one when covert first hit the United States, we We had a lot of social media out there, a lot of digital media out there. And even before it came to the United States, when Italy and China were really suffering, we gathered as a team and audited every piece of content that we had pulled all back in. I met daily Jim and I and Jennifer temples. Teams met daily to talk about what is our tone of voice? What are we saying? How are we helping our customers get through? This time we knew how difficult it was for us with business continuity, remote workforce, we needed to help our customers and let them know that we were at the ready right now to help. So we chose to speak through the voices of our leaders. Antonio did several blocks and videos, and we rallied and redid the website completely to be all about over response and how we had many solutions for our cost. Most implement immediately from $2 billion financing Teoh setting up remote workforces, too, doing WiFi in parking lots and turning ships into hospitals. It ran the gamut, Um, and so it was really important to us that we conveyed a message of here to help. Ultimately, we ended up doing a television commercial. Antonio's voice. It was a personal letter from Antonio to his fellows, business leaders and engineers and said, Look, we know what you're going through. We're going through it ourselves. We're here to help. Here's how and it's been really motivating and successful and joy and driving people to find out more about what HP could do to help. So >>I would just add >>to what >>Murtha said. She outlined it really well. But we have some great customer examples and great customer stories as well. They're very emotional talking about how customers really needed our help and our combination of technology. People really came together to enable them to get their businesses up and running, or to address a pain point or problem for their audiences. The first point you know, there's the concept of here to help with the recovery and then here to help with the transformation as well as they look to the future. >>So how are you guys thinking about just sort of growth marketing strategies, branding strategies not only for HP but in the spirit of helping customers in this post isolation economy. Merson. Maybe you could start start us off. >>Well, we we've been talking about how this crisis has brought the future forward, nor our doorsteps. So where our customers may have been on a digital transformation path and they were accelerating it. Now there's there's an impetus to do it right now. So whether you're in recovery, um, or whether you're one of the customers for whom this crisis created a surge of demand and you needed to scale way up, these are the moments of transformation that our company is. Is there to help you with Jim? Do you want to build on that? >>Now? I think you hit the highlights there, Marissa, you know, again for us, I think we wanted to just be authentic and true to who we are as a company. And, you know, our purpose is to advance the way people live and work. And I think we live that during this time and will continue to live that as we go forward. It it's really core to who we are. And what we saw is that many of our customers really valued the fact that when they needed us the most, we were there for them and we were there for them all around the world. And, um, you know, and our goal is to continue to do that and continue to delight them and to be the best transformation partner for the future. >>I mean, culturally, we obviously re observe all this stuff, but culturally, you kind of be kind of had a heads down approach to all of this. I mean, there was there was not a hint of ambulance chasing in what you got. How you guys approach this. So I mean, I think I think culturally that here to help message it seemed like a very strong roots in citizenship. Um, you know, And then, of course, with social uprising, respect for individuals that seemed to shine through. I don't know. I know versus deliberate or that's just again cultural. Maybe >>it's it's all of the above. You can't change who you are and we need at Hewlett Packard Enterprise are people who care about other people our purpose. As Jim said, Our purpose is to advance the way people live in or every one of us every day gets up and goes to work or goes to work at home at HP to do just that. That is who we are. And so it would be an authentic for I think, true to this crisis in any other way. >>I think I wanna make an observation and see if you guys to respond. So we always talk about technology disruptions. Mercy you mentioned about, you know, the future was put forward. I'm sure you've seen the wrecking ball. You know, the folks in the building, the executives very complacent. A digital transformation not in my day. And in the 19 wrecking bald covert 19 survey, you probably saw that Who's who's leading your digital transformation CEO CTO or Covert 19. But it's really now. I mean, if you're not digital, you're not doing business. So but my observation is that it seems like despite all this technology that global disruptions are going to probably have a bigger impact in this coming decade, whether it's pandemics of social upheaval, of natural disasters, etcetera. But technology can play a huge role in supporting us through those things. Jim, I wonder if you have any thoughts on that comment. >>I mean, I think it's it's a great question, you know, if you think about it, What what happened with the macro economy Cove? It It's been a catalyst for, I think, everybody to understand that they needed to really accelerate their digital transformation. And, more importantly, they need a partner who can help them on that journey as well. I mean, if you just look at what we're talking about here >>with >>this event, right, most of h p e. And, um, you know, our >>competitors to >>cancel their virtual events >>are canceled their physical >>events rather, and they're moving now to a digital event in any way. This is going to be the new normal for us, right? So I think as we go >>forward, we're gonna >>see this only continue to accelerate. And for us, you know, our edge to cloud platform as a service strategy plays really well to helping customers accelerate that digital transformation. And, you know, it just kind of comes back to what Marissa said. You know, here to help is very very HP in terms of it's authentic and it's here. We want to be here to help our customers in their biggest hour of need. And we're doing everything we can and will continue to do that for the future as well. >>Versus, you know, having done many, many discovers we've noticed over the last several years you guys made a much bigger emphasis on the sort of post discover which a lot of organizations don't have a big physical event, and it's sort of on to the next thing. And how do you see the post from a branding standpoint? Messaging, etcetera. How do you see taking advantage of that from a virtual standpoint? And what have you learned? >>Well, we've been on our own digital transformation journey, and, you know, through Jim's leadership, we have built a pretty serious digital engine, which allows us to have a personal relationship with the customer, meet them where they are on their terms. For example, with this platform, it's even using your now because we we actually will know what content would see what sessions, what demos someone interested in. Maybe they put it, you know, on their schedule, and then didn't get to do it. So we'll go back to them later and say, Hey, we saw that you wanted to do this. It's still here. Why don't you come and have a look and then watch to that We do sort of the Netflix engine, the been newsworthy playlist of If you like that, you like this. And if you like this, you like that and we bring them through the breadcrumbs all the way through. And it's a self directed journey, but we're there to help. And that is really the true power of digital is to have that interaction, that conversation with the customer and where they want to be and with what they want to learn and read about. We'll see. >>Yeah, And everything, of course, is instrumented gym. We'll give you the last word and you were involved, as was Marissa in sort of the new HP. The new branding and the whole purpose of that was really to get Hewlett Packard enterprise focus and really back to sort of the roots of innovation. And I wonder if you could comment on from a strategy standpoint, innovation and from a competitive standpoint, you know where you're at over the last several years, we've obviously transformed as a company and where you see your competitive posture going forward. >>Yeah, you know, for us, um, we're so excited about this event because this is a great opportunity for us to showcase progress against our edge to cloud platform as a service strategy, and we roll this out last year. It's differentiated. It's unique in the marketplace. It demonstrates the transformation happening across as a service and software at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. So we are a company in transition, aligned to what we feel, our companies, our customers, biggest pain points. And when you look at some of the acquisitions that we've made some of the organic investments that we've done, we're just very well positioned to deliver against, you know, some very unique pain points that our customers have. Plus, I think another thing is, at the end of the day, really, what our customers are saying is, help me take all this data and translate that data into insight and that insight into action. You're going to hear us talk about the age of insight and how we're really again unifying across edge the cloud to deliver that for our customers. Stone. We're excited for this event because you're going to hear a significant industry revealed, focused around cloud services around software and really a lot of the things that we've been talking about. And we're going to show a lot of progress as we continue on that journey. And then, you know, Murtha mentioned digital. I'm really excited about digital because that enables us to understand and learn and help our customers and deliver a better experience for them. And then finally, you know, huge opportunity for us. Two. Take this message out globally, you know? Ah, great opportunity for people all around the world who maybe haven't heard from HP for a while to see our message, to feel the new energy to see who we are to see. Uh, you know that we're doing some very interesting things that we can help them. So we're excited. There's a lot of energy right now inside the company, and, uh, we're ready to kick it off and get rolling here. >>Well, it's quite amazing. I mean, we started off 2020 with the gut punch, but the reality is, is that 20 twenties? A lot different than 20 pens. If it weren't for technology and companies like HP here to help center, you know, we would not be in such such good shape and good in quotes. But think about it. The technology is really helping his power through this. So Jim Morrison, Thanks so much for coming on the Cube. Thank you, HB. Everything you're doing for customers in the community. Really? Thank >>you for having us. Thank you for having me. Good to see you. >>Great to see you guys to and keep it right there. Everybody, this is Dave Volante for the Cube. Our continuous coverage of hpe discover virtual experience in 2020. We're right back right after this short break. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Announcer: From Austin, Texas it's The Cube covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2019, brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Good morning. From Austin, Texas, Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante at Pure Accelerate 2019. This is our second day. We just came from a very cool, interesting, keynote, Dave whenever there's astronauts my inner NASA geek from the early 2000s. She just comes right back up Leland Melvin was on >> Amazing, right? >> With a phenomenal story. Talking about technology and the feeling of innovation but also a great story of inspiration from a steam perspective science, technology, engineering, arts, math, I loved that and, >> Dave: And fun >> Very fun. But also... >> One of the better talks I've ever seen >> It really was. It had so many elements that I think you didn't have to be a NASA fan or a NASA geek or a space geek to appreciate the all of the lessons that Leland Melvin learned along the way that he really is inspiring, everybody the audience to take note of. It was I thought it was... >> And incredibly accomplished, right? I mean scientist, MIT engineer, played in the NFL, went to space, he had some really fun stuff when they were, you know, messing around with with gravity. >> Lisa: Yes. >> I never knew you could do that. He had like this water. >> Lisa: Water, yeah. >> Bubble. >> I'd never seen that before and they were throwing M&M's inside (laughter) and he, you know consumed it choked on it, which is pretty funny. >> Yeah, well it was near and dear to me. I worked with NASA my first job out of grad school. >> Dave: Really? >> I did, and managed biological pilots that flew on the space shuttle and the mission that the he talked about that didn't land, Colombia. That was the mission that I worked on. So when he talked about that countdown clock going positive. I was there on the runway with that. So for me, it just struck a chord of, >> Dave: so this is of course the 50th anniversary of the moonwalk. And you know I have this thing about watches, kind of like what you have with shoes (chuckles) >> Lisa: Hey, handbags. >> Is that not true? Oh, It's handbags for you? (laughing) >> Dave: I know this really that was a terrible thing for me to say. >> That's okay. >> Dave: You have great shoes so I just I just assumed that not good to make assumptions. So I bought a moon watch this year which was the watch that Neil Armstrong used to not the exact one but similar one, right? >> Lisa: Yeah. And it actually has an acrylic face because they're afraid if it cracked in space you'd have glass all over the place. [Lisa] Right. So that's a little nostalgia there. >> Well one of the main things too as you look at the mission that President John F. Kennedy established in the 60's for getting a man in space in that 10-year period. That being accomplished and kind of a parallel with what Pure Storage has done in its first 10 years of tremendous innovation. This keynote again Day 2, standing room only at least about 3000 people or so here. Storage as James Governor said, your friend and also who keynoted after Leland this morning you know, (mumbles) Software's eating the world storage is eating the world we have to have secure locations to store all this data so that we can extract maximum value from it. So nice parallel between the space program and Pure Storage. >> James is really good, isn't he? I mean he had to follow Leland and I mean again one of the better talks I've ever heard, but James is very strong, he's funny, he's witty he's he cuts to the chase. >> Lisa: Yes. >> He always tells it like it is. He's a very Monkchips is very focused on developers and they do a really good job there, one of the things he talked about was S3 and how Amazon uses this working backwards methodology which maybe a lot of people don't know about but what they do is they write and rewrite and rewrite and vet and rewrite the press release before they announce the product and even before they develop the products they write the press release and then they work backwards from there. So this is the outcome that we are trying to achieve, and it's very disciplined process that they use and as he said they may revise it hundreds and hundreds of times and he put up Andy Jassy's quote from 2004, around S3. That actually surprised me. 2000...Maybe I read it wrong. >> Lisa: No, it was 2004. >> Because S3 came out after EC2 which was 2006 so I don't know. Maybe I'm getting my dates wrong or I think James actually got his dates wrong but who knows, maybe you know what? Maybe he got a copy of that from the internal working document, working backwards doc that could be what it was but again the point being they envisioned this simple storage that developers didn't have to think about >> Lisa: Right. >> That was virtually unlimited in capacity, highly available and you know, dirt cheap which is what people want and so he talked about that and then he gave a little history of the Dell technology families and I tweeted out this in a funny little you know basically pivotal VM ware EMC and Dell and their history Dell was basically IPO 1984 and then today. There was a few things in between I know but he's got a great perspective on things and I think it resonated with the audience then he talked a lot about Kubernetes jokingly tongue-in-cheek how Kubernetes everybody thought was going to kill VMware but his big takeaway was look you got all these skills of (mumbles) Skills, core database skills, I would even add to that you know understanding how storage works and I always joke if your career is based on managing lawns you might want to rethink your career. But his point was which I liked was look all those skills you've learned are valuable but you now have to step up your game and learn new skills. You have to build on top of those skills so the history you have and the knowledge that you've built up is very valuable but it's not going to propel you to the next decade and so I thought that was a good takeaway and it was an excellent talk. >> So looking back at the conversations yesterday the press releases that came out the advancements of what Pure is doing, with AWS, with Nvidia, with the AI data-hub for example, delivering more of their portfolio as a service to allow businesses whether it's a law-firm like we talked to yesterday utility or Mercedes AMG Petronas Motor-sport, to be able to access data securely, incredibly quickly, recover it restore it absolutely critical and really can be game-changing depending on the type of organization. I want to get your perspectives on some of the things you heard anecdotally yesterday after we wrapped in terms of the atmosphere, the vibe, the thoughts on Pure's next 10 years. >> Yeah, so several things, just some commentary so it's always good at night you go around you get a lot of data we sometimes call it metadata. I think one of the more interesting announcements to me was the block-storage on AWS. I don't necessarily think that this is going to be a huge product near term for Pure in terms of meaningful revenue, but I think it's interesting that they're embracing the trend of the Cloud and are actually architecting Cloud solutions using Amazon services and blending in their own super gluing their own, I mean it's not really superglue but blending in their own software for their customers to extend. Now, you know some of the nuances I don't think they are going to have they have better right performance I think they'll have better read performance clearly they have better availability I think it's going to be a little bit more expensive. All these things are TBD that's just my take based on looking at what I've seen and talking to some people but to me the important thing is that Pure's embracing that Cloud model. Historically, companies that are trying to defend an existing business, they retreat. You know, they denigrate they don't embrace. We know that Pure's going to make more money on pram than it does in the Cloud. At least I think. And so it's to their advantage for companies to stay on-prem but at the same time they understand that trend is your friend and they're embracing that so that was kind of one thing. The second thing I learned is Charlie Giancarlo spent a lot of time with them last night as did you. He's a bit of a policy wonk in very certain narrow areas. He shared with me some of the policy work that he's done around IP protection and not necessarily though on the side that you would think. You would think that okay IP protection that's a good thing but a lot of the laws that were trying to be promoted for IP protection were there to help big companies essentially crush small companies so he fought against that. He shared with me some things around net neutrality. You would think you know you think you know which side of net neutrality he'd be on not necessarily so he had some really interesting perspectives on that. We also talked to and I won't share the name of the company but a very large financial institution that's that's betting a lot on Pure was very interesting to me. This is one of the brand names everybody would know it if you heard it. And their head of storage infrastructure was here, at the show. Now I know this individual and this person doesn't go to a lot of shows >> Maybe a couple a year. >> This person chose to come to this show because they're making an investment in Pure. In a fairly big way and they spent a lot of time with Pure management, expressing their desires as part of an executive form that Pure holds they didn't really market that a lot they didn't really tell us too much about it because it was a little private thing but I happen to know this individual and and I learned several things. They like Pure a lot, they use it for a lot of their workloads, but they have a lot of other storage, they can't necessarily get rid of that other storage for a lot of reasons. Inertia, technical debt, good tickets at the baseball game, all kinds of politics going on there. I also asked specifically about some hybrid companies products where the the cost structure's a little bit better so this gets me to flash array C and we talked to Charlie Giancarlo about this about his flash prices come down and it and opens up new markets. I got some other data yesterday and today that you know that flash array C is not going to be quite priced we don't think as well as hybrid arrays closing the gap it's between one and one and a quarter, one and a half dollars per gigabyte whereas hybrid arrays you are seeing half that, 70 cents a gigabyte. Sometimes as low as 60 cents a gigabyte. Sometimes higher, sometimes high as a dollar but the average around 65-70 cents a gigabyte so there's still a gap there. Flash prices have to come down further. Another thing I learned I'm going to just keep going. >> Lisa: Go ahead! >> The other thing I learned is that China is really building a lot of fab capacity in NAND to try to take out the thumb-drive market-place so they are going to go after the low-end. So companies like Samsung and Toshiba, Toshiba just renamed the company, I can't remember the name of the company but Micron and the NAND flash NAND manufacturers are going to have to now go use their capacity and go after the enterprise because China fab is going to crush the low-end and bomb the low-end pricing. Somebody else told me about a third of flash consumption is in China now. So interesting things going on there. So near term, flash array C is not going to just crush spinning disk and hybrid, it's going to get closer and it's going to slowly eat away at that as NAND prices come down it really could more rapidly eat away at that. So I just learned some other stuff too but I'll take a breath. (laughter) >> So one of the things I think we are resounding with it we heard not just yesterday on the program day but even last night at the executive event we were at is that from this large financial services company that you mentioned, Pure storage is a strategic partner to many organizations from small to large that is incredibly valued to your point the Shuttleman only goes to maybe a couple of events a year and this is one of them? >> Dave: Right. >> This is a company that in its first 10 years has embraced competition head on and I loved how you talked about yesterday 10 years ago they just drove a truck through EMC's market and sort of ripping and replacing. They're bold but they're also doing it in a way that's very methodical. They're working on bringing you know changing companies' perspectives of even backup data as becoming an asset to put it on flash. Because if you can't rapidly restore that, if there's an outage whether it is an attack or it's unintentional human related, that data can't be recovered quickly, you're in a big big problem. And so them as a strategic component of this isn't in any industry I think it was a very resounding sentiment that I heard and felt yesterday. >> Yeah, this ties into tam expansion of what we talked to Charlie Giancarlo about new workloads with AI as an example flash or AC lowering prices will open up those some of those new workloads data protection backup is clearly an opportunity and I think it's interesting, you're seeing a lot of companies now announce a lot of vendors announce flash based recovery systems I'll call them recovery systems because I don't even consider them backup anymore it's not about backup, it's about recovery. Oracle was actually one of the first to use that kind of concept with the zero data loss recovery appliance they call it recovery. So it's all about fast and near instantaneous recovery. Why is that important? It's because it's companies move toward a digital transformation and what does that mean? And what is a digital business? Digital business is all about how you use data and leveraging data in new ways to create new value to monetise or cut cost. And so being able to have access to that data and recover from any inaccess to that data in a split-second is crucial. So Pure can participate in that, now Pure's not alone You know, it's no coincidence that Veritas and Veeam and Cohesity and Rubrik they work with Pure, they work with HPE. They work with a lot of the big players and so but so Pure has to you know, has some work to do to win its fair share. Staying on backup for a moment, you know it's interesting to see, behind us, Veritas and Veeam have the biggest sort of presence here. Rubrik has a presence here. I'm sure Cohesity is here maybe someway, somehow but I haven't seen them >> I haven't either. >> Maybe they're not here. I'll have to check that up, but you know Veeam is actually doing very well particularly with lower ASPs we know that about Veeam. They've always come at it from the mid-market and SMB. Whereas Cohesity and Rubrik and Veritas traditionally are coming at it from a higher-end. Certainly Cohesity and Rubrik on higher ASPs. Veeam's doing very well with Pure. They're also doing very well with HPE which is interesting. Cohesity announced a deal with HPE recently I don't know, about six months ago somebody thought "Oh maybe Veeaam's on the outs." No, Veeam's doing very well with HPE. It's different parts of the organization. One works with the server group, one works with the storage group and both companies are actually doing quite well I actually think Veeam is ahead of the curve 'cause they've been working with HPE for quite some time and they're doing very well in the Pure base. By partnering with companies, Pure is able to enter that market much in the same way that NetApp did in the early days. They have a very tight relationship for example with Commvault. So, the other thing I was talking to Keith Townsend last night totally not secretor but he's talking about Outpost and how Amazon is going to be challenged to service Outpost Outpost is the on-prem Amazon stack, that VMware and Amazon announced that they're co-marketing. So who is going to service outpost? It's not going to be Amazon, that's not their game in professional service. It's going to have to be the ecosystem, the large SIs or the Vars the partners, VMware partners 'cause that's not Vmwares play either. So Keith Townsend's premise, I'd love to have him on The Cube to talk about this, is they're going to have trouble scaling Outpost because of that service issue. Believe it or not when we come to these conferences, we talk about other things than just, Pure. There's a lot of stuff going on. New Relic is happening this week. Oracle open world is going on this week. John Furrier just got back from AWS Bahrain, and of course we're here at Pure Accelerate. >> We are and this is our second day of two days of coverage. We've got Coz on next who I think has never been on The Cube. >> Dave: Not to my knowledge. >> We've got Kix on later. A great lineup, more customers Rob Lee is going to be on. So we're going to be digging more into Pure's Cloud strategy, the next ten years, how they're going to accelerate that and pack it into the next couple of years. >> I'll tell you one of the things I want to do, Lisa. I'll just call it out. An individual from Dell EMC wrote a blog ahead of Pure Accelerate I think it was last week, about four or five days ago and this individual called out like one, two, three, four.... five things that we should ask Pure so we should ask them, we should ask Coz we should ask Kix. There was criticism, of course they're biased. These guys they always fight. >> Lisa: Naturally. >> They have these internecine wars. >> Lisa: Yep. >> Sometimes I like to call them... no I won't say it. So scale out, question mark there we want to ask Coz about that and Kix. Pure uses proprietary flash modules. They do that because it allows them to do things that you can't do with off-the-shelf flash. I want to ask and challenge them that. I want to ask about their philosophy on tiering. They don't really believe in tiering, why not? I want to understand that better. They've made some acquisitions, Compuverde is one acquisition, it's a file system. What does that mean for flash play? >> Now we didn't hear anything about that yesterday, so that's a good point that we should dig into that. >> Yeah, so we'll bring that up. And then the Evergreen competitors hate Evergreen because Pure was first with it they caught everybody off guard. I said it yesterday, competitors hate Evergreen because competitors live off of maintenance and if you're not on their maintenance they just keep jacking up the maintenance prices and if you don't move to the new system, maintenance just keeps getting more and more and more and more expensive and so they force you, you're locked in. Force you to move. Pure introduced this different model. You pay for the CapEx up front and then, you know, after three years you get a controller swap. You know, so... >> To your point competitors hate it, customers love it. We heard a lot about that yesterday, we've got a couple more customers on our packed program today, Dave so let's get right to it! >> Great. >> Let's wrap up so we can get Coz on stage. >> Dave: Alright, awesome. >> Alright, for Dave Vellante. I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube from Pure Accelerate 2019, day two. Stick around 'Coz' John Colgrove, CTO, founder of Pure, will be on next. (upbeat music)