(bright upbeat music) >> Well, hi everybody, John Wallace here and welcome to theCUBE, the leader in high-tech coverage. Glad to have you aboard here as we continue our coverage here at re:Invent 2022. We're out at The Venetian in Las Vegas. A lot of energy down on that exhibit floor, I promise you. We're a little bit away from the maddening crowd, but we're here with the Executive Summit sponsored by Accenture. I've got two guests I want to introduce you to. Jason Beyer who is the vice president of Data and Analytics at Bridgestone Americas. Jason, good to see you, sir. >> Hello, John. >> And Josh von Schaumburg, who is the managing director and North America lead for AWS Security at Accenture. Josh, good to see you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yeah, first off, just quick take on the show. I know you've only been here about a day or so, but just your thoughts about what you're seeing on the floor in terms of energy, enthusiasm and, I think, turnout, right? I'm really impressed by it. We've got a lot of people down there. >> Yeah, I've been certainly impressed, John, with the turnout. But just as you say, the energy of the crowd, the excitement for the new things coming, it seems like it's a really pivotal moment for many organizations, including my own, and really excited to see what's coming over the next couple days. >> Let's jump into Bridgestone then. I kind of kidded you before we started the interview saying, all right, tires and golf balls, that's what I relate to, but you have a full array of consumer products and solution you're offering and your responsibility is managing the data and the analytics and making sure those business lines are as efficient as possible. >> Absolutely, John. So in my role, I have the privilege of being in an enterprise position. So I get to see the vast array of Bridgestone, which it is a large, highly vertically integrated company all the way from raw material sourcing of natural rubber to retail services in the automotive industry. We're at scale across those areas. The exciting thing about the company right now is we're going through this business transformation of becoming, you know, building on that heritage and that great legacy of having high quality high performance, highly focused on safety products to becoming a product and solutions company, and particular a sustainable solutions company. So what that means is we're bringing not only those great products to market, tires, golf balls, hoses, all kinds of rubber, air springs products to market, but thinking about how do we service those after they're in the market, how do we bring solutions to help fleets, vehicle owners, vehicle operators operate those in a sustainable way, in a cost effective way? So those solutions, of course, bring all new sets of data and analytics that come with it, and technology and moving to the cloud to be cloud native. So this new phase for the organization that we refer to as Bridgestone 3.0, and that business strategy is driving our cloud strategy, our technology strategy, and our data strategy and AWS and Accenture are important partners in that. >> Yeah, so we hear a lot about that these days about this transformation, this journey that people are on now. And Josh, when Bridgestone or other clients come to you and they talk about their migrations and what's their footprint going to look like and how do they get there, in the case of Bridgestone when they came to you and said, "All right, this is where we want to go with this. We're going to embark on a significant upgrade of our systems here," how do you lead 'em? How do you get 'em there? >> Yeah, I think there are a couple key cloud transformation value drivers that we've emphasized and that I've seen at Bridgestone in my time there. I mean, number one, just the rapid increase in the pace of innovation that we've seen over the last couple years. And a lot of that is also led by the scalability of all of the cloud native AWS services that we're leveraging, and in particular with the CDP platform. It really started off as a single-use case and really a single-tenant data lake. And then through the strategic vision of Jason and the leadership team, we've been able to expand that to 10 plus tenants and use cases. And a big reason behind that is the scalability of all these AWS services, right? So as we add more and more tenants, all the infrastructure just scales without any manual provisioning any tuning that we need to do. And that allows us to go really from idea, to POC, to production in really a matter of months when traditionally it might take years. >> So- >> If I can build upon that. >> Please do, yeah. >> The CDP, or central data platform, is part of a broader reference architecture that reflects that business strategy. So we looked at it and said, we could have taken a couple of different approaches to recognize the business challenges we're facing. We needed to modernize our core, our ERP, our manufacturing solutions move to smart factory and green factories, our PLM solutions. But at the same time, we're moving quickly. We have a startup mindset in our mobility solutions businesses where we're going to market on our customer and commerce solutions, and we needed to move at a different pace. And so to decouple those, we, in partnership with Accenture and AWS, built out a reference architecture that has a decoupling layer that's built around a data fabric, a data connected layer, integrated data services as well. A key part of that architecture is our central data platform built on AWS. This is a comprehensive data lake architecture using all the modern techniques within AWS to bring data together, to coalesce data, as well as recognize the multiple different modes of consumption, whether that's classic reporting, business intelligence, analytics, machine learning data science, as well as API consumption. And so we're building that out. A year ago it was a concept on a PowerPoint and just show and kind of reflect the innovation and speed. As Josh mentioned, we're up to 10 tenants, we're growing exponentially. There's high demand from the organization to leverage data at scale because of the business transformation that I mentioned and that modernization of the core ecosystem. >> That's crazy fast, right? And all of a sudden, whoa! >> Faster than I expected. >> Almost snap overnight. And you raise an interesting point too. I think when you talk about how there was a segment of your business that you wanted to get in the startup mode, whereas I don't think Bridgestone, I don't think about startup, right? I think in a much more, I wouldn't say traditional, but you've got big systems, right? And so how did you kind of inject your teams with that kind of mindset, right? That, hey, you're going to have to hit the pedal here, right? And I want you to experiment. I want you to innovate. And that might be a little bit against the grain from what they were used to. >> So just over two years ago, we built and started the organization that I have the privilege of leading, our data and analytics organization. And it's a COE. It's a center of expertise in the organization. We partner with specialized teams in product development, marketing, other places to enable data and analytics everywhere. We wanted to be pervasive, it's a team sport. But we really embraced at that moment what we refer to as a dual speed mindset. Speed one, we've got to move at the speed of the business. And that's variable. Based on the different business units and lines of lines of business and functional areas, the core modernization efforts, those are multi-year transformation programs that have multiple phases to them, and we're embedded there building the fundamentals of data governance and data management and reporting operational things. But at the same time, we needed to recognize that speed of those startup businesses where we're taking solutions and service offerings to market, doing quick minimum viable product, put it in a market, try it, learn from it adapt. Sometimes shut it down and take those learnings into the next area as well as joint ventures. We've been much more aggressive in terms of the partnerships in the marketplace, the joint ventures, the minority investments, et cetera, really to give us that edge in how we corner the market on the fleet and mobility solutions of the future. So having that dual speed approach of operating at the speed of the business, we also needed to balance that with speed two, which is building those long term capabilities and fundamentals. And that's where we've been building out those practical examples of having data governance and data management across these areas, building robust governance of how we're thinking about data science and the evolution of data science and that maturity towards machine learning. And so having that dual speed approach, it's a difficult balancing act, but it's served us well, really partnering with our key business stakeholders of where we can engage, what services they need, and where do we need to make smart choices between those two different speeds. >> Yeah, you just hit on something I want to ask Josh about, about how you said sometimes you have to shut things down, right? It's one thing to embark on I guess a new opportunity or explore, right? New avenues. And then to tell your client, "Well, might be some bumps along the way." >> Yeah. >> A lot of times people in Jason's position don't want to hear that. (laughs) It's like, I don't want to hear about bumps. >> Yeah. >> We want this to be, again, working with clients in that respect and understanding that there's going to be a learning curve and that some things might not function the way you want them to, we might have to take a right instead of a left. >> Yeah, and I think the value of AWS is you really can fail fast and try to innovate and try different use cases out. You don't have any enormous upfront capital expenditure to start building all these servers in your data center for all of your use cases. You can spin something up easily based in idea and then fail fast and move on to the next idea. And I also wanted to emphasize I think how critical top-down executive buy-in is for any cloud transformation. And you could hear it, the excitement in Jason's voice. And anytime we've seen a failed cloud transformation, the common theme is typically lack of executive buy-in and leadership and vision. And I think from day one, Bridgestone has had that buy-in from Jason throughout the whole executive team, and I think that's really evident in the success of the CDP platform. >> Absolutely. >> And what's been your experience in that regard then? Because I think that's a great point Josh raised that you might be really excited in your position, but you've got to convince the C-suite. >> Yeah. >> And there are a lot of variables there that have to be considered, that are kind of out of your sandbox, right? So for somebody else to make decisions based on a holistic approach, right? >> I could tell you, John, talking with with peers of mine, I recognize that I've probably had a little bit of privilege in that regard because the leadership at Bridgestone has recognized to move to this product and solutions organization and have sustainable solutions for the future we needed to move to the cloud. We needed to shift that technology forward. We needed to have a more data-driven approach to things. And so the selling of that was not a huge uphill a battle to be honest. It was almost more of a pull from the top, from our global group CEO, from our CEOs in our different regions, including in Bridgestone Americas. They've been pushing that forward, they've been driving it. And as Josh mentioned, that's been a really huge key to our success, is that executive alignment to move at this new pace, at this new frame of innovation, because that's what the market is demanding in the changing landscape of mobility and the movement of vehicles and things on the road. >> So how do you two work together going forward, Ben? Because you're in a great position now. You've had this tremendous acceleration in the past year, right? Talking about this tenfold increase and what the platform's enabled you to do, but as you know, you can't stand still. Right? (laughs) >> Yeah. There's so much excitement, so many use cases in the backlog now, and it's really been a snowball effect. I think one of the use cases I'm most excited about is starting to apply ML, you know, machine learning to the data sets. And I think there's an amazing IoT predictive maintenance use case there for all of the the censored data collected across all of the tires that are sold. There's an immense amount of data and ultimately we can use that data to predict failures and make our roads safer and help save lives >> Right. >> It's hard to not take a long time to explain all the things because there is a lot ahead of us. The demand curve for capabilities and the enabling things that AWS is going to support is just tremendous. As Josh mentioned, the, the AI ML use cases ahead of us, incredibly exciting. The way we're building and co-innovating things around how we make data more accessible in our data marketplace and more advanced data governance and data quality techniques. The use of, you know, creating data hubs and moving our API landscape into this environment as well is going to be incredibly empowering in terms of accessibility of data across our enterprise globally, as well as both for our internal stakeholders and our external stakeholders. So, I'll stop there because there's a lot of things in there. >> We could be here a long time. >> Yes, we could. >> But it is an exciting time and I appreciate that you're both sharing your perspectives on this because you've got a winning formula going and look forward to what's happening. And we'll see you next year right back here on the Executive Summit. >> Absolutely. >> To measure the success in 2023. How about that? >> Sounds good, thank you, Jim. >> Is that a deal? >> Awesome. >> Sounds good. >> Excellent, good deal. You've been watching AWS here at Coverage of Reinvent '22. We are the Executive Summit sponsored by Accenture and you are watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (gentle music)

(modern music) >> Welcome back, everyone to theCUBE's live coverage here in San Francisco for VMware Explore, formerly VMworld. theCUBE's been here 12 years today, we've been watching the evolution of the user conference. It's been quite a journey to see and, you know, virtualization just explode. We got two great guests here, we're going to break it all down. Ash McCarty, director of Multicloud Product Management Dell Technologies, no stranger to the VMworld, now VMware Explore, and Josh Prewitt, Chief Product Officer at Rackspace Technology. Great to see you guys, thanks for coming on. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, thanks so much, thanks for having us. >> So, you know, the theme this year is multicloud, but it's really all about vSphere 8's out, you got VxRail, you got containers, you got the magic going on around cloud native, which it really points to the future state of where this is going, which is agile enterprises, infrastructure as code, high performance under the hood, I mean, all the things that you guys have been doing for many, many years and decades and business, but now with VMware putting it all together, it feels like, this year, it's like you got visibility into the value proposition, people have clear line of sight into where the performances are from the hardware software and now Cloud, it's kind of coming together, feels like it's coming together. Let's talk about that and the relationship between you guys, Rackspace and Dell and VMware. >> Perfect. That sounds great. Well, thanks so much for having us. You know, I'll sort of kick that off. We've got a huge lifelong partnership and relationship with Dell and VMware and the technologies that these guys create that we're able to put in front of our customers are really what allows us to go drive those business outcomes. So, yeah, happy to dive into it. >> Yeah, and I think to add to that, we understand that customers have a tremendously complex challenge ahead of them on managing their infrastructure. That's why with VxRail, we have intelligent infrastructure. We want it to simplify the outcomes for customers no matter if they're managing VMware or if they're managing the actual hardware infrastructure underneath it. >> Yeah, one of the things that we always talk about, you know, you read about it on the blogs and the news and the startup world, is "Oh, product-market fit," and, well, it kind of applies here, if you think about what's going on on the product side with the Edge emerging, hybrid cloud on pace with private cloud, and obviously, cloud native is great too if you have native applications in there, but now, putting it all together, you're hearing things like the telco cloud, I hear buzzwords like that, I hear supercloud, which we promoting, which you see in companies becoming cloud themselves, with the CapEx being handled by either public cloud or optimized on premise or hosted hardware. I mean, this is now, this is not all about everything's going to the cloud, this is now cloud operations on premise and in hosting hardware, so I'd love to get your perspective on that because you guys are huge hosting, you've got huge experience there, modernizing all the time. What does the modern era look like for the customer? >> Yeah, yeah, so, I mean, I think it's very clear to everybody that it's a multicloud world, right? I think the main question is, are you multicloud as a strategy, or are you multicloud as a situation? Because everybody's multicloud. That ship has sailed, right? >> Yeah, exactly. >> And so, when I look at the capabilities that we have with the partnership with Dell and the VxRail technologies, you know, life-cycle management that you have to go and perform across your fleet can be extremely difficult, and whenever you take something like the VxRail and you add, you know, you have the hardware and you have the software all fully integrated there, it makes it much easier to do life-cycle management, so for a company like Rackspace, where we have tens of thousands of nodes that we're managing for customers across 29 global data centers, and we're all over the place, the ability to have that strength with Dell's hardware, the VMware platform improve life-cycle management makes it so much easier for us to manage our fleet and be able to deliver those outcomes even faster for customers. >> So assuming that VxRail isn't a virtual railroad that delivers data to Rackspace data centers, if it's not that, what is it, Ash? Give us a little premier on what VxRail is. >> Well, VxRail is the first and only jointly engineered HCI system with VMware, so everything we do with VMware is better. >> So hyperconverged infrastructure. >> Hyperconverged infrastructure. >> What we used to call a server because all the bits are in the box, right? >> All the storage is computed in there. >> Everything's in there. Right. >> Simplifies management. And we built in with the VxRail HCI system software, which is really our secret sauce, we built in to actually add those automation capabilities with VMware, so it allows you to scale out very quickly, scale up very quickly. And one of our big capabilities is our life-cycle management, which is full stack, meaning it life-cycles the entire vSphere stack as well as the hardware infrastructure underneath as one continuously validated state, meaning that customers can focus more on their business outcomes and driving their business forward versus spending time managing their infrastructure. >> And when you talk about customers, it's also the value proposition that's flowing through Rackspace because Rackspace, when you install these systems, how long does it take to spin up to have a VM available for use when you install one of these systems? >> Oh, so you can have the system up and running very quickly. So we automate all the day one deployment, so you can have the system up and running in your labs, in your data centers in 45 minutes, and you can have VMs up in provision very shortly after that. >> So what do you do with that kind of agility? >> Oh my gosh, so we've actually taken that, and we've taken the VxRail platform and we've created what we call Rackspace Services for VMware Cloud, and this is our platform that is based on VxRail, it's based on vCloud Director from VMware, and by having the VxRail is already RackStacked, ready to go for our customers, we're able to sign a customer up today, and then, within a matter of minutes, give them access to a vCloud Director portal where they can go in and spin up a new VM anytime they want, but then, it also integrates into all of those cloud management platforms and tools, right? It integrates into your Terraform, so you've got, you know, your full CI/CD pipeline, and so you have that full end-to-end capability. If you want to go click around on a portal, you can using vCloud Director and using vSphere and all that great stuff. If you want to automate it, you can do that too. And we do it all in the backs of that VxRail hyperconverged infrastructure. >> Talk about the DPU dynamic. We're hearing a lot about DPUs. VxRail, you guys have some HCI-like vibe there with DPUs. How is that impacting performance, can you guys see? 'Cause we're hearing a lot of buzz around the VxRail and the VMware DPUs really making things much faster. >> I mean, it's the thing we talk about most with customers now is their challenges with scaling their infrastructure, and VxRail is going to be the first and only jointly engineered system that will have vSphere 8 with DPUs functionality and will have the full life-cycle management, and what this really empowers customers to do is, as they're growing their environments that they're scaling out their workloads in the data center, they need a way to scale to that next generation of networking and network security, and that's what DPUs allow you to do. They give you that offload and that high performance capability. >> Talk about the... I'd love to get your guys' perspective, while we're just riffing on this real quick sidebar for a second, if VxRail has these capabilities which you guys are promoting it does and some of the things go on in the modern era, the next gen apps are going to look a lot different. We're kind of calling it supercloud, if you will, for lack of a better description. Yeah, multicloud is a state, I agree. It's a situation and a state, but supercloud is really the functionality of what cloud does. So what do you guys see as, maybe it's tea leaves reading now or dots connecting, what are some of those next gen apps? I mean the Edge is there with, "Oh, the Edge is going to explode," and I can see the Edge having new kinds of apps that we've never seen before, whether it's on premise building lights and however they work or IoT changing. What do you guys see as the next gen app/apps coming out that's not looking the same as now, or how are apps today changing for next gen? 'Cause you get more performance at the Edge, you get more action, you get more co-locations in GEOS, so it's clear multicloud multi-presence is happening too, right? So what are you guys seeing? What's this... >> Yeah, I would say two areas that resonate most with customers is customers transitioning to their cloud native journey, so beginning it and using things like Tanzu for Kubernetes Operations, which we fully support and have a white paper out there list for customers, another area is really in the AIML space, so we've been partnering with both VMware and Nvidia to simplify how customers deploy new AIML infrastructure. I mean, it's challenging, complex, a lot of customers are wanting to dive in because it really enables them to better operate and operate on insights and analytics they get from running their business. >> Josh? >> And, you know, I think it really comes down to, whether you want to call it Edge or IoT or, you know, smart things, whatever, right? It all comes down to how we are expected, now, to capture all of the data to create a better user experience, and that's what we're seeing the modern applications being built around, right, is how do you leverage all of the data that's now at your fingertips, whether it's from wearables, machine vision, whatever it may be, and drive that improved user experience. And so that's the apps that we're seeing now, right? You know, of course, you still have all your business apps, all your ERP capabilities that need to exist and all of that great stuff, but at the same time, I also expect that, whenever, you know, now, whenever I'm walking into a store and their machine vision picks me up and they're pinging my phone and pushing me push notifications, I expect to have a better user experience. >> And do a database search on you too, by the way. >> Yeah, exactly, right? >> No search warrants out for 'em, you know, you're good. >> That's exactly it, so, you know, you kind of expect that better user experience and that's where I'm seeing a lot of the new app development. >> Yeah, it's fun, as these cases are intoxicating to think about all the weird coolness around it. The thing that I want to get your thoughts on is, we were just talking on the analyst session earlier in theCUBE, if DevOps is here and won, which we believe it has and infrastructure as code is happening, the cloud native discussion, shifting left CI/CD pipeline, that's DevOps in my mind, that's like cloud native developers, that's like traditional IT in my mind, so that's all part of the coding. DataOps and Security Ops seem to be the most robust areas of conversations where that's the new Ops, right? So, I mean, I made the term up, but new Ops, in terms of the focus, what are you making more efficient? What are you optimizing for? What's your guys reaction to that? Because all the conversations that we talk about is data, security, and then the rest seems to be cool, all good on the developer's side. Yeah, shift left events happening up there, Kubernetes containers, but all the action on the Ops side seems to be data and security. >> Yeah. >> What's your reaction to that? Is that right? >> So personally, I do think that it's right. I think that, you know with great power comes great responsibility, right? And so the clouds have brought that to us, all of your infrastructure as code has brought that to us. We have that great power now, right? But then you start to see, kind of, the pipeline attacks that are starting to become more and more popular. And so how you secure something that is as complex as, you know, a cloud native development pipeline is really hard, it's really challenging, so I do think that it warrants the attention. Then on the data side, I think that that matters because when I talked about those examples of a better user experience, I don't want my better user experience tomorrow, I don't want it 20 minutes from now. I want that real time capability, and so with that comes massive requirements from a compute and hardware perspective, massive requirements from a software perspective, and from, you know, what folks are now calling DataOps perspective >> Data addressability, having the data available to be delivered in real time. >> You know, there there's been a lot of talk, here at the conference, about the disaggregation of, you know, the brainularism, if we're going to make up words, you know, the horsepower that's involved, CPU, DPU, GPU. I'll make up another word. We're familiar with the thermometers used during COVID to measure temperature. Pretend that I've invented a device called a Care-o-meter and I'm pointing at various people's foreheads, who needs to care about DPUs and GPUs and CPUs? You know, John was referencing the idea of security at the Edge, data. Well, wow, we've got GPUs that can do things. Who needs to care about that? Obviously, we care about it. You care about it. You care about it. You're building this stuff, you're deploying this stuff, but at what level in the customer stack do they need to care about it? Are you going in, is RackSpace engaging customers and saying, "Look, here's the value proposition: we understand your mission to be this. We believe we can achieve your mission." How far down in the organization do you go before you get to someone where you have to have the DPU conversation? 'Cause we didn't even define DPU yet here, which is always offensive to me. >> I think I defined it actually. >> Did you define DPU? Good. Thank you John. >> Yeah, yeah. >> But so who should care? Who should really care about that? >> Oh, that's such a complex question, right? Because everybody, Rackspace included >> But a good one. But a good question. >> Oh, it's a great question. >> Thank you. >> Great question. (laughing) >> Everybody, Rackspace included, is talking about selling business outcomes, right? And ultimately, that is what matters. It is what matters, is selling those business outcomes to the customer. And so of course we're dealing with our business buyers who are just looking for, "Hey, improve my KPIs, make this run faster, better, stronger, all of that great stuff," but ultimately you get down to an IT staff, and to the IT staff, these things matter because the IT staff, they all have budgets that they have to hit. The realities start to hit them and they can't just go and spend whatever they want, you know, trying to hit the KPIs of the marketing department or the finance department, right? And so you have your business buyers that do care significantly about buying their outcomes, and so we're having, you know, the business outcomes conversations with them and then, oftentimes, they will come back to us and say, "Okay, but now we need you to talk to this person over in our IT organization. We need you to talk with our CIO, with our VP of infrastructure," whatever that may be, where we really get down to the nuts and bolts and we talk about how, you know, we can stretch the hardware coming from Dell, we can stretch the software coming from VMware, and we can deliver a higher caliber experience, a lower TCO, by taking advantage of some of the new technologies coming out. >> Yeah, so there's a reason why I ask that awesome question, and it's because I can imagine a scenario where, and this speaks to RackSpace's position in the market today and moving forward and what your history has been, people want to know, "Well, why should I work with Rackspace instead of some mega-hyper-monster-cloud?" If part of the answer is: well, it's because, for very specific application environments, like healthcare we talked about earlier, that might be a conversation where you're actually bringing in Dell to have a conversation about how you are specifically optimizing hardware and software to achieve things that otherwise can't be achieved with t-shirt sizes of servers in a hyperscale cloud. I mean, is that part of the Rackspace value proposition moving forward, that you can do things like that with partners like Dell that the other folks aren't going to focus on? >> Absolutely, it is, right? And a lot of the power of Rackspace is that, you know, we're the best-in-class pure play cloud solutions provider, and we can talk to you about your AWS, your Azure, your GCP, all of that great stuff, but we can also talk to you about private cloud solutions that are built on the backs of Dell Technologies, and in this multicloud world, you don't have that one size fits all for every single application. There are some things that run great in a hyperscale provider, and we can help you get there, but just exactly like you said, there are these verticals where you have applications that don't necessarily run all that well or they're not modernized, they haven't been refactored to be able to take advantage of cloud native services. And if all you're going to do is run that on bare metal in VMs, a hosted private cloud is, by far, the best way to do that, right? And Rackspace provides that hosted private cloud on the backs of Dell technology, on the backs of VMware technology, and we can go deliver those custom bespoke solutions to customers. >> So the infrastructure and the hardware still matters, Ash, yes? >> Absolutely, and I think he just highlighted, while what he does with his customers and what's important to his internal organization is being to deliver faster outcomes, better outcomes, give those customers, to meet those KPIs of those customers consuming their infrastructure at Rackspace, so I think, really, what the DPU and the underlying infrastructure enables is all that full stack integration to allow them to quickly scale to the demands of those customers and what they need in their infrastructure. >> Guys, while we got you here, what do you think about this year's VMware Explore, a lot of anticipation around how many people are going to show up and, you know, all kinds of things around the new name and Broadcom. Big attendance here, I mean, I was very surprised about the size of the attendance and the show floor, the ecosystem, this train is not stopping. I mean, this is VMware's third act, no matter what the contextual situation is. What's your observation of the show? Do you agree, or is there anything that you could want to share about for folks who didn't make it, what they missed? >> Yeah, I mean it really highlights, I mean, you've seen the breadth of the show, I know people that aren't here that aren't able to see it are really missing the excitement. So there's a lot of great announcements around multicloud, around all the announcements, around the vSphere 8 with the DPUs, the vSAN Express Storage architecture, ton of new exciting technologies that are really empowering how customers, you know, the future of how customers are going to consume their workloads in their data centers. >> Josh, they're not short on products and stuff. A lot of moving parts. vSphere 8, a bunch of new stuff. And the cloud native stuff's looking pretty good too, off the tee. >> You know, it does feel like a focus on the core, though, in a way. So I don't think there's been a lot of peripheral noise at the show. Sometimes it's, you know, "And we got this, and this, and this, and this." It's vSphere 8, vSAN 8, cloud software, you know, really hammering it home and refining it. >> But you don't think of it as a little bit of a circus act. I mean the general keynote was theatrical, I thought, I mean, I thought they did a good job on that. I think vSphere 8 was buried a little bit, I thought they could have... They checked the box at the beginning. >> That's true, that's true. >> I mean, they mentioned it, but we didn't see the demos. You know? Demos are usually great. But that's my only criticism. >> Well, that's why we supplemented it with the VxRail announcements, right? With our big announcements around vSphere 8 and with the DPUs as well as the vSAN Express Storage architecture being integrated into VxRail, so I think, you know, it's always that ongoing partnership and, you know, doing what's best for our customers, showing them the next generation and how they consume that technology. >> Yeah, you guys got good props on VxRail. We had a great chat about it yesterday. Rackspace, you guys doing good? Quick update on what's happening with you guys. Give a quick plug. What's going on at Rackspace? What's hot? What's going on? Give a quick plug for what the services are and the products you got going on there. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we are that end-to-end cloud provider, right? And so we've got really exciting offers in market, helping customers take advantage of all the hyperscale providers, and then giving them that private cloud experience. We've got everything from single-tenant running in our data centers on the backs of vSphere, vCloud Director, and VxRails, all the way through to, like, multi-tenant burstable capability that runs within our own data centers as well. It's a really exciting time for technology, a really exciting time for Rackspace. >> Congratulations, we've been following your journey for a long time. Dell, you guys do continue to do a great job and end-to-end phenomenal work. The telco thing's a huge opportunity, we didn't even go there. But Ash, thanks. Josh, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Yeah, thanks so much. Thanks for having us. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay, thanks for watching theCUBE. We're live, day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Two sets here in Moscone West on the ground level, in the lobby, checking out all the action. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (modern music)

(upbeat music) >> On June 21st in Cambridge mass at the Sinclair in Harvard Square, Tech Tackles Cancer is back after a COVID hiatus with live band karaoke and some local tech celebrities raising money for a great cause. The Cube is a media sponsor of the event and Josh Epstein, local marketing exec and one of the events organizers is here to tell us more. Josh, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here, Dave. >> So tell us about this event. What's going on? What are the logistics? How's that all work? >> Yeah, we're super excited. So as you said, June 21st at the Sinclair in Harvard Square, Sinclair, if you haven't been there is just the great old school rock club. So we'll be there from 6:00 to 10:00. We will have live band karaoke. So the main event and kind of the primary fundraising approach here is that we have some celebrity technology rock gods these featured performers like Chris Lynch who was the founder of Tech Tackles Cancer, who are are raising money from basically now, up until June 21st. Then at the event, their fundraising will culminate with them singing a live song backed by a live band. And the awards will be given out to the most money raised, the best performance and the best stage presence. So it will be a lot of fun. >> So the fundraising format is I sign up to sing do the karaoke with a live band which is a little bit different. And then I raise as much dough as possible. So obviously that's competitive. >> It's competitive, I think that we ask for a minimum of $10,000 targeted for each of the fundraisers but knowing these guys, knowing guys like Chris Lynch, they don't like to lose. So the bet here is that people are going to go out, they're going to hit their network and they are going to look to kind of raise the most money. So we anticipate this to be a great event with a lot of money raised and a lot of fun. >> So we have a graphic from Alex. If you could bring that up of the people who have signed up for this already. We got Steve Duplessie, founder of of ESG, senior analyst. They sold their company to Tech Target, which is awesome. Congratulations to those guys and thank you for stepping up. George Hope, who heads partner sales for HPE, Joe Lemay of Rocketbook Nathan Hall from Pure Storage, system engineering guy and of course, Steiny, Ken Steinhardt from Infinidat. He was at EMC, he's the field CTO now. He's going to be up there singing. So of course, Chris. >> Absolutely, these are just the early entrance here. So we just started really working our networks. And obviously, I'm a Boston tech guy kind of working the storage networks, the networking networks and kind of the other folks that are around. So as we come out of stealth here in April and start really recruiting, we anticipate having probably 10 to 15 of these featured performers, really fundraising performers that we'll sing. And then we're also obviously soliciting broader donations from anyone who wants to come to the event or just give to the cause and the corporate sponsorships as well. >> All right, so you got corporate sponsorships. You can sing, you can donate you can be there just to support it. That's fantastic and the awards, how's that work? >> Yeah, so we're excited. So first off, most money raised wins an award. So we'll have a leaderboard on the website, we'll be able to kind of track who's raised what, at the event, we're going to have some celebrity judges that will be actually voting for their favorites and then have a crowdsource component as well. So we'll introduce what that mechanism is. But as people, either at the events or a watching in streamed live on LinkedIn live, we'll actually vote for their favorite performance as well as their their pick for best stage presence which we know in rock and roll is half the battle. >> Now this cause has raised a bunch of, I think last time, you guys did this, it was probably a quarter million or close to it and you support multiple causes. What causes are you supporting? >> Sure, yeah, actually I think since they founded the event several years ago they raised over $2 million. This year for this format where we're looking, we can really up our game here but this year we're supporting two really great causes that are both focused on pediatric cancer. The first is St. Batrick's that is really committed to raising funds for research to really help stamp out pediatric cancer really. The approach to researching cures and treatments to pediatric cancer is very different from regular adult cancer. So St. Batrick's does a great job of picking those research projects that really target in on those pediatric cancer causes. And then the second is one mission. And one mission really outlooks to help make pediatric cancer patients that are spending time in the hospital, making their time less stressful, less painful, less sad, less boring. And so they do a lot of fundraising and contributions targeting children's hospitals, really around the country for those pediatric cancer floors. >> Josh, amazing cause. Thanks so much for coming onto the Cube and explaining all that. >> Great, thanks David. >> All right, June 21st, go to ttcfund.org, Tech Tackles Cancer fund, ttcffund.org for more information and you can donate. We'll see you there. (soft music)

>>from the cube studios in Palo alto >>in boston >>connecting with thought leaders all around the >>world. This >>is a cute conversation. Hello and welcome to today's session of the AWS Global Public sector Partner Awards. I'm your host Natalie ehrlich. Today we're going to focus on the following award for best partner transformation. I'm pleased to introduce our guests, josh door smith, vice president of public sector at Effectual and jeremy Yates, deputy technology architect at jenny May. Welcome gentlemen so glad to have you on our show. >>Hi there. Very nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me >>terrific. Well josh, I'd like to start with you. How can companies leverage cloud native solutions to deliver higher quality services? >>So Natalie, that's a great question. And in the public sector and our our government customers, we run into this all the time. It's kind of our bread and butter. What what they can do is the first thing they need to be aware of is you don't have to be afraid of the cloud as some very obscure technology that is just emerging. It's been out for 10, 11 years now, customers across government space are using it lock stock and barrel to do everything from just managing simple applications, simple websites all the way through hosting their entire infrastructure, both in production and for disaster recovery purposes as well. So the first thing to note is just don't be afraid of the cloud. Um secondly, it's, it's imperative that they select the right partner who is able to kind of be there Sherpa to go into however far they want to dip their toe into the, into the proverbial cloud waters. Um to select somebody who knows whatever it is that they need to go do. So if they want to go Aws as we are talking about today, pick a partner who has the right experience, past performance designations and competencies with the cloud that they're interested in. >>Terrific. Well, you know, Jeremy, I'd love to move to you. What does modern modernization mean to jenny May? >>Sure, Thanks Natalie, great to be here. Thanks josh as well, you know. So for jenny May, modernization is really, it's not just technology is holistic across the organization. So that includes things like the business, um not just you know, the the I. T. Division. So we're looking at the various things to modernize like our culture and structural changes within the organization. Um moving to implement some, some proven practices like def sec ops and continuous integration and continuous delivery or deployment. Uh and then, you know, our overall overarching goal is to give the best and most secure technology to the business that we can to meet the Jeannie Mai mission and the needs of our customers >>terrific. Well josh, how is Effectual planning to support jenny Maes modernization plans? >>So we have been supporting jenny May for about 14 months now. Uh and back in september of last year, we rewarded a co prime 10 year contract for Jeannie Mai to do exactly that. It's to provide all things cloud to Jeannie Mai for 10 years on AWS and that's including reselling AWS. That's including providing all sorts of professional services to them. And it's, it's providing some third party software applications to help them support their applications themselves. So what Effectual is doing is kind of a threefold. We are supporting the modernization of their process, which jeremy mentioned a moment ago and that includes in stan shih ating a cloud center of Excellence for jenny May, which enables them to modernize the way they do cloud governance while they're modernizing their technology stack. We're also providing a very expert team of cloud architects and Dempsey cops engineers to be able to, to design the Jeannie Mai environment, collaborating with our co prime uh to ensure that it meets the security requirements, the compliance requirements that jerry mentions. Uh, Jeannie Mai is a federal entity, but it also has to adhere to all the finance industry uh compliance requirements as well. So very strenuous from that perspective. And then the third thing that we're doing to help them kind of along their modernization journey is in stan shih aging infrastructure as code. So in the cloud, rather than building everything in the AWS management console, we script everything to build it automatically, so it improves consistency, it improves the customer experience regardless of which resource is working on it. And it improves disaster recovery capability as well. And also, just quite frankly, the speed by which they can actually deploy things. >>And jeremy, how is this transition helping your security really enhancing it now? >>Uh From a security perspective we're implementing a number of various tools um both, you know, a W. S based as well as other software that josh mentioned. Um So we're able to utilize those in a more scalable manner than we could previously in the traditional data center. Um we've got a number of things such as we're looking at multiple vulnerability management products like 10 of Ohio and Wallace. Um we're using uh tools such as Centra fi for our our pam or privileged access management capabilities. Um Splunk a pretty industry standard. Um software for log and data correlation and analysis um will also be using that for some system and application monitoring. Um as well as uh the Mcafee envision product for endpoint and other cloud service security. So being able to pull all those in in a more scalable and more cost efficient way as well from cloud based services. Uh, it's really helped us be able to get those services and integrate them together in a way that, you know, we may not previously been able to. >>Yeah, terrific. Well, josh, let's move back to you and talk further about compliance. You know, any insight here, how Effectual is building a modern cloud infrastructure to integrate AWS services with third party tools to really achieve compliance with the government requirements. Just any further insight on that >>front? That's a great question. Natalie and I'm gonna tag team with Jeremy on this one if you don't mind, but I'll start off so jenny may obviously I mentioned earlier has federal requirements and financial requirements so focused right now on on those federal aspects. Um, so the tools that Jeremy mentioned a moment ago, we are integrating all of them with a W. S native meaning all of the way we do log aggregation in the various tools within AWS cloudwatch cloud trail. All of those things were implementing an AWS native, integrating them with Splunk to aggregate all of that information. But then one of the key requirements that's coming up with the federal government in the very near future is tick three dot or trusted internet connection. Basically in the first iteration a decade or so ago, the government wanted to limit the amount of points of presence that they have with the public facing internet fast forward several versions to today and they're pushing that that onus back on the various entities like jenny May and like hud, which Jeannie Mai is a part of but they still want to have that kind of central log repository to where all of the, all of the security logs and vulnerability logs and things like that. Get shipped to a central repository and that will be part of DHS. So what effectual has done in partnership with jenny May is create a, a W. S native solution leveraging some of those third party tools that we mentioned earlier to get all of those logs aggregated in a central repository for Ginny MaE to inspect ingest and take action from. But then also provide the mechanism to send that to DHS to do that and correlate that information with everything coming in from feeds across the government. Now that's not required just yet. But we're future proofing jenny Maes infrastructure in order to be able to facilitate adherence to those requirements when it becomes uh required. Um, and so jeremy, I'll pass it over to you to talk a little bit further about that because I know that's one of the things that's near and dear to your sister's heart as well as jenny may overall. >>Yeah, absolutely. Thanks josh. Um, so yeah, we, as you mentioned, we have implemented um, uh, sort of a hybrid tech model right now, um, to to handle compliance on that front. Um, so we're still using a, you know, some services from the legacy or our existing T two dot x models. That that josh was mentioning things such as m tips, um, uh, the Einstein sensors, etcetera. But we're also implementing that take 30 architecture on our own. As josh mentioned that that will allow us to sort of future proof and and seamlessly really transitioned to once we make that decision or guidance comes out or, you know, mandates or such. Um, so that effort is good to future proof house from a compliance perspective. Um, also, you know, the tools that I mentioned, uh, josh reiterated, those are extremely important to our our security and compliance right. Being able to ensure, you know, the integrity and the confidentiality of of our systems and our data is extremely important. Not both, not just both on the r not only on the government side, but as josh mentioned, the finance side as well. >>Terrific. Well, I'd love to get your insight to on AWS workspaces. Um, if either one of you would like to jump in on this question, how did they empower the jenny May team to work remotely through this pandemic? >>That's a great question. I guess I'll start and then we'll throw it to jeremy. Um, so obviously uh effectual started working with jenny May about three weeks after the pandemic formally started. So perfect timing for any new technology initiative. But anyway, we, we started talking with Jeremy and with his leadership team about what is required to actually facilitate and enable our team as well as the government resources and the other contractors working for jenny May to be able to leverage the new cloud environment that we were building and the very obvious solution was to implement a virtual desktop infrastructure uh type solution. And obviously Jeannie Mai had gone all in on amazon web services, so it became the national natural fit to look first at AWS workspaces. Um, so we have implemented that solution. There are now hundreds of jenny May and jenny make contractor resources that have a WS workspaces functioning in the GovCloud regions today and that's a very novel approach to how to facilitate and enable not only our team who is actually configuring the infrastructure, but all the application developers, the security folks and the leadership on the jenny may side to be able to access, review, inspect, check log etcetera, through this remote capability. It's interesting to note that Jeannie Mai has been entirely remote since the pandemic initiated. Jeremy's coming to us from, from west Virginia today, I'm coming to us from national harbor Maryland And we are operating totally remotely with a team of 60 folks about supporting this specific initiative for the cloud, not to mention the hundreds that are supporting the applications that Jamie runs to do its day to day business. So jeremy, if you wouldn't mind talking about that day to day business that jenny may has and, and kind of what the, the mission statement of Jeannie Mai is and how us enabling these workspaces uh facilitates that mission >>or you know, so the part of the overall mission of jenny Maes to, to ensure affordable housing is, is made available to uh, the american public. Um that's hud and, and jenny may as part of that and we provide um mortgage backed securities to help enable that. Um, so we back a lot of V A. Loans, um, F H A, those sort of loans, um, workspaces has been great in that manner from a technology perspective, I think because as you mentioned, josh, it's really eliminated the need for on premise infrastructure, right? We can be geographically dispersed, We can be mobile, um, whether we're from the east coast or west coast, we can access our environment securely. Uh, and then we can, you know, administer and operate and maintain the technology that the business needs to, to fulfill the mission. Um, and because we're able to do that quickly and securely and effectively, that's really helpful for the business >>Terrific. And um, you know, I'd like to shift gears a bit and uh you know, discuss what you're looking ahead toward. What is your vision for 2021? How do you see this partnership evolving? >>Yeah, you >>Take that 1/1. >>Sure. Yeah. Um you know, definitely some of the things we look forward to in 2021 as we evolve here is we're going to continue our cloud journey um you know, through practices like Deb said cops, you realize that uh that journey has never done. It's always a continual improvement process. It's a loop to continually work towards um a few specific things or at least one specific thing that we're looking forward to in the future, as josh mentioned earlier was our arctic three Oh Initiative. Um, so with that we think will be future proofed. Um as there's been a lot of um a lot of recent cyber security activity and things like that, that's going to create um opportunities I think for the government and Jeannie Mai is really looking forward to to leading in that area. >>Mhm and josh, can you weigh in quickly on that? >>Absolutely. Uh First and foremost we're very much looking forward to receiving authority to operate with our production environment. We have been preparing for that for this last year plus. Uh but later on this summer we will achieve that 80 oh status. And we look forward to starting to migrate the applications into production for jenny May. And then for future proof, it's as jerry jerry mentioned, it's a journey and we're looking forward to cloud optimizing all of their applications to ensure that they're spending the right money in the right places uh and and ensuring that they're not spending over on any of the one given area. So we're very excited to optimize and then see what the technology that we're being able to provide to them will bring to them from an idea and a conceptual future for jenny may. >>Well thank you both so very much for your insights. It's been a really fantastic interview. Our guests josh duggar smith as well as jeremy Gates. Really appreciate it. >>Thank you very much. >>Thank you so much. >>Terrific. Well, I'm your host for the cube Natalie or like to stay tuned for more coverage. Thanks so much for watching.

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Postgres vision 2021 brought to you by EDB. >> Hello everybody. Welcome back to Postgres Vision 21. My name is Dave Vellante and we're super excited to have Josh Berkus on. He's joining us, he's a leader in the Kubernetes community, extremely well-versed in containerized applications, application development, containerizing databases all things Open-source, CUBE alum, Josh Berkus welcome back to theCUBE. Great to see you again. >> Thank you. I'm glad to be here. >> Just recently, you're coming off KuberCon, we heard some of the themes from that event. There was a lot of focus on inclusion and diversity, which of course, you know, that's the Open-source ethos and a lot of discussion around designing security in, the whole conversation about shift left. That's great to see larger companies giving back, to obviously a lot of the pressure over the years on the big companies that there's a one-way street, they're actually giving back, making some investments. So we love to see that. And just Open-source continues to be the main spring of innovation. I got to say, I got to call-out and a recent Red Hat survey the state of the enterprise Open-source in 2021, 90% of technology leaders said that they're adopting Open-source and made a joke that the other 10% they're doing it they just don't know it. But so what were some of your takeaways from the event and some of the trends you're seeing but specifically as it relates to containers. >> So, I mean, you're right, one thing is this sort of return to security, the security topic again because we've had like a couple of things happen. One was, when we initially got, started doing containers or platform with Docker and with early Kubernetes and that sort of thing we got a lot of container image scan, right? So you have like Clare and Docker has a scanning thing and Amazon and Azure have their own scanning things. And people felt that was kind of good enough for a while but then we both had the solar winds hack. And the thing is like, in the meantime, we've gone from a stage where people were mostly using Kubernetes in dev to people using Kubernetes in production. And there's a lot of extra security issues and vulnerabilities that come up in an actual production environment that people just didn't necessarily think about before. And so now we're looking at adding more pieces to the security stack and making those more standard for everyone who uses Kubernetes. And I've had the chance to work with the StackRox folks since they became part of Red Hat. So it's been very exciting to look at the whole thing and look at things like container supply chain because the solar winds showed us obviously, it's not enough to necessarily just trust the vendor. You need to trust their whole supply chain. And it helps to be able to examine that supply chain. >> Yeah, it's very scary when you look at that you're absolutely right. Multiple components of malware coming into an organization through the supply chain cell forming, different signatures. And so it's great to see the community spending time on that and an emphasis on that. Now I got to cut right to the chase here, in 2018, you wrote a two-part blog series it's called Should I run Postgres in Kubernetes? Obviously it's highly relevant for this community. So I want to talk about your perspective, well, first of all, the thing I love about you is you're tactical and you can go deep, but at the same time, you can speak to a business audience. >> Thanks. >> You're welcome and thank you for writing this and communicating the way you do, but talk about when it makes sense and when it doesn't, I mean, that's kind of... My big three takeaways on the pros were simplify, simplify, simplify, especially if you're running application components and other services on Kubernetes but give us the update three years later, why should you, why shouldn't? >> You know let's actually, why don't we zoom out to an even bigger picture? Which is just honestly like every new platform that we've got, right? So when virtualization and VMware became a thing we had the same sort of decisions about when do I move my database to this, when AWS and the public cloud became a thing. I could have like, like if I had written that 12 years ago I could have written it about AWS and it would have had a lot of the same decision tree 'cause what it really sort of comes down to is the more commodifiable a particular database instance is the better candidate it is to move to an advanced infrastructure platform, and the most advanced, currently being Kubernetes. To the extent that you can describe this particular database, what it does, who needs to use it, what's in it in and a simple one pager then that's probably a really good candidate for hosting on Kubernetes. Whereas if you have a database where it's like, Hey, the entire company uses it and it's so complicated we can't describe it's inputs and outputs. That's possibly the last thing in your company that you're going to migrate to Kubernetes, because both in terms of there's less gain to be made there, because the real advantage of moving stuff to Kubernetes is your ability to automate things. The whole way I got into Kubernetes in the first place was I started out way down the line not using containers at all. I was just looking to solve the problem of how do we automate Postgres high availability. That's what I was looking for. And it started out with something I built using SaltStack called handy rep, that Casey and I built. And mostly that was a problem discovery exercise, we discovered what the hard problems were there. And then we moved from that, and then we moved from that to Docker because containers offered an encapsulation strategy because one of the problems you run into when automating high availability is the database actually down or not. And so the first thing that containers offered us was not packaging, what people usually talk about but instead of encapsulation, right, because it's a lot easier to determine is the container running or not, than is the database down or not? Because an actual Postgres database has multiple components and multiple processes that make it up. And some of those can be down without the others being down which can then make you think a database is down that's not actually shut down. And being able to put that in a container, it gives me more of a binary up or down. And then from there, I got into, okay, well but I need to automate a lot of other components. I need to automate the storage and everything else. And that led to Kubernetes. And so if you look at it in terms of deciding when you're going to migrate the database to Kubernetes you look at, can I take advantage of that automation? Is this something that my application workflow and my team organization allows me to do? And if the answer is yes, particularly, if you're in a company that's doing the full dev ops thing where you have a unified development and infra team that owns the entire stack then those people are going to be a really good candidate for moving that stack to Kubernetes. >> Got it. Okay, so let me ask you, in database especially in critical apps, your recovery's everything, when something goes wrong, you got to recover. So if I understand it correctly, just in reading and listening to you, if you've got Kubernetes expertise and you're building applications in that environment then the application components are in there. And am I inferring correctly that you're going to be able to automate and facilitate high quality recovery with certainty? >> Yeah, there's a bunch of infrastructure involved, and this is why, what enterprises do is they move things like the web front-end to Kubernetes first and is what they should do, right? That is absolutely the right order of things to do because the minute that you're looking at bringing databases in, you're now looking at your whole storage infrastructure. So that direct attack storage that was attached physically to one machine is not going to work once you've moved to a container-based cloud. You suddenly need a way to be able to attach that storage to any of the nodes in your cluster so that you can move the database around and you can have fail-over. But once you build those things up, you can't. I mean, some of the stuff that I've done, I work in the office of the CTO now at Red Hat. So I'm not in production support. So the only Postgres instance I'm supporting are ones for some Open-source projects we support like the Python project. And in those cases, it's not a high criticality database, but I'm not support, I'm not on call on the weekend. I want something where it doesn't require need to be on call in order for it to stay up. And so putting that on open shift with the Patroni fail-over driver was the answer for that. And it has failed over in the Red Hat IT team contacts me and says, "Hey, we need to move those servers. And then we'll just add a node to the cluster and delete the old node and it'll do the right thing." And I don't have to worry about it, which is really what you're going for there. >> The other thing I took away from your writing was that you suggested that a lot of the successes in areas where the Postgres databases were rather small and there were a lots of them. And so to the extent that you can automate that you're going to save yourself a lot of problems. Whereas in the flip side if you're running extremely large databases or there may be performance constraint that might be an area to be a little bit more circumspect. >> Yeah and that's absolutely true because like the other side of this, like I've worked with the dev ops people and the people who are on Heroku and that sort of thing that have one database per application, right. And those people are great candidates for migrating. But then I've also worked with the people who have a one big database for the company, where the database is three terabytes in size, it powers their reporting system and their customer's system and the web portal and everything else in one database. That's the one that's really going to be a hard call and that you might in fact, never physically migrate to Kubernetes because even if it's on Kubernetes you are going to mess with the hardware policy to give it its own dedicated machine. So in that case, what I would honestly tend to do is there's a feature in Kubernetes called service catalog that allows you to expose an external service within Kubernetes as if it were a Kubernetes service. And that's what I tend to do with those kinds of databases because it's, there's not a huge advantage in actually physically moving the database to a container. There's a bunch of steps involved and going via service catalog is a lot easier. >> But essentially you're you're speaking the same language in that example that you just gave. >> Yeah. >> Now, the other thing you pointed out at the time that you wrote this article is there's a lot of pre 1.0 kind of alpha in the Kubernetes stack and it might be prudent to if, not putting your HIPAA compliant, since it evolved. >> Yeah, if I was to update two things in the article I guess that would be one of them the other one I'll get to in a minute. So the first one is that, Kubernetes has progressed along that maturity timeline. Like we recently added the production readiness reviews as part of our feature review process. We've really improved tested adherence, so that we're not releasing with known broken tests, and a bunch of other things to make it more stable. But part of it depends on who I'm talking to because there's still degrees here. So if I'm talking to the context of the world of software then Kubernetes has reached the point of maturity that it is as stable as anything else. And if you use a release, you can assume that any sort of major issues have been worked out. The one difference with it and some other platforms people may have used is it's still young enough that backwards compatibility can be an issue. As in Kubernetes releases now three times a year, we've stepped down from four and within three releases you can find yourself needing to change API calls which means needing to refactor parts of your application. So if you compare that with some other things, like a JVM platform, when's the last time you had a major API change with a JVM platform. But you know the Kubernetes is only six years old, so that's part of that. The other thing is the question is I'm talking to the Postgres community, right? Which is within Postgres, people run the daily Postgres snapshot in production. I would not do that with Kubernetes, I would wait for release. So there's still kind of a difference there if people are coming from the Postgres community, right. Is we're used to this really extreme level of stability that we have with Postgres and Kubernetes as a much younger project isn't quite there yet. >> So that's a process, a change that you would have to be aware of if you want to take the benefits of containers with Postgres, you just have to really understand that and make that process part of your change management. >> The other thing I would say has changed is there are new opportunities in running your data warehouse, your big data databases on Kubernetes. A number of platforms, the one I'm most familiar with is Citus, because I worked with those folks that have taken advantage of Kubernetes as a deployment and management platform for their database, their big data database infrastructure, which makes sense because if you look at a lot of modern data analysis and data mining platforms that are built on top of Postgres part of how they do their work is they actually run a bunch of little Postgres instances that they federate together. And then Kubernetes becomes the tool that allows you to manage all of those little Postgres instances. So that's the sort of exception to the, should I migrate this really big database? That can be a yes, if you are migrating it to a big data platform that supports Kubernetes, then it can be a huge advantage. >> Obviously you've got the practitioner knowledge and you were working in the community. I'm wondering if you can share just thinking about sort of the motivation to move to a container environment if you're one of the Postgres folks in the audience could you share any, either anecdotal or other data on business impact, benchmarks that you've seen, some of the things that you've seen some positives there? >> If you actually look at my history when you talk about performance is one, right? And if you actually look at my history, I actually did, and for that matter of some of the folks from Percona and some of our other folks in the database field did a bunch of benchmarks of running Postgres in MySQL, on Kubernetes versus running it not on Kubernetes. And one of the advantages of containers over VMS is that there isn't any intrinsic, there's not any intrinsic sort of layer gap or virtualization that modifies your performance. In other words, if a container is using storage that's present on the node where the container is running it is using that storage through Linux. And therefore the performance is, with some caveats, performance is going to be identical to if you were running that on the host system. Now, where performance differences creep in is that you might not be able to use the same kind of storage. In that Kubernetes and containers systems in general are organized around the idea that no service is using a majority of the resources on the system, so again, if you're planning on user running a larger Postgres database that really needs all the RAM that a system has you're going to have to do a lot of tinkering with Kubernetes configuration to get the same performance, you would have a running it on a dedicated hardware now. >> Okay, but fundamentally you're saying that overhead is less with caveats, like you said, you just mentioned in the story, right? >> Yeah, well, the overhead is not any different from if you were running under the host system. So a really good example of that was, if you go back to on my lightning talking in, (indistinct) Austin, I think. I showed running a benchmark with Postgres on an AWS instance using EBS storage, both not in Kubernetes and in Kubernetes. And there was no perceptible performance difference between the two of them because it was all metered by how fast was EBS for me. >> Right, and I said less, but I should've been more specific less than say you would expect with virtualization. >> Right, and then it just comes down to a business decision, which is that if you're already on some sort of cloud storage or network storage, and again you have databases that can share hardware systems then you shouldn't really expect substantial performance differences by moving to Kubernetes. That's something that you can eliminate inside of words, but if you're going in the process going to be migrating from direct attached storage to network storage then you are going to see a performance difference but that's caused by the change in storage. Or if you're going to be moving from systems that are not shared to systems that aren't shared again you're going to see a difference from them, but it wouldn't be any different than if you did that without Kubernetes containers being involved. >> If you're using any world-class shared storage device from whatever name of big vendor, you're going to accommodate if you're racking and stacking your own flash drives or worse yet spinning disk drives that's in direct attached, that's maybe a different story, so, okay. That's good. Where would you advise people to get started with Postgres and Kubernetes? >> The nice thing is there are a number of advanced systems now, and advanced systems that are supported by the various Postgres vendors. And that can actually be a great place to get started because the systems are Open-source so you can try them out. This is, as far as I know, they're Open-source you can try them out but then if you decide you like them, you can get support. And so that would include Crunchy data. Enterprise DB has a system, and honestly, I have to admit less familiar with than the ones that Crunchy runs. StackRox is another one out of Europe that has their own system for running cloud native Postgres. And there's one I'm forgetting, and what a lot of these have to do with is taking advantage of the automation. 'Cause you can obviously can put Postgres and container play around, right? But your whole point of moving to Kubernetes in general is going to be take advantage of the automation, so you want to look at the various automation platforms and you can go ahead and do that and the one I'm most familiar with because I develop it as Patroni, is the component for automating Postgres. You do Patroni plus you do operators, it's another word that comes in here. But if you're looking at this as a business you're probably going to want something that supported or that at least there's a potential to buy support and a bunch of the different companies in the Postgres space package up these components for you into a platform. Like I know the Crunchy platform uses Patroni plus some proxy stuff, plus PG back rest plus a couple of other things to give you a sort of full automation platform for running Postgres on Kubernetes. >> Awesome, last question. Where are we in the whole container adoption, we started out kind of you've mentioned this stateless and now you're building stateful applications but still you look at the, we look at spending data with our data partners ETR and containers and container orchestration. It's it's right up there with RPA, with cloud, with AI just in terms of the attention and resource that's going in. So it's exploding. It feels like it's still early days. There's a lot of legs left, what do you see? >> Yeah, well, a lot of it is, I mean you're talking about migrating IT infrastructure, right? So where we are with Kubernetes is we have the early adopters, right? We have all the people who were at the point of building their new infrastructure when Kubernetes came out, right. And people who had major unsolved problems which is a big reason for adopting a new platform was just was no old platform for you. and so we sort of have those people and those people are already on Kubernetes and running their stuff there. And so now we're looking at the really long path of people who are not in one of those camps moving, right. And in a lot of cases, that's a matter of coinciding with other reasons why they have to look at an upgrade because even if, whether it's the gradual replacement of old applications by new ones, where you gradually all the legacy applications get offline and the new applications run in Kubernetes or sometimes it's a, "Hey we're waiting for replacement cycle." We're waiting for, we already had plans to move from on-prem to public cloud, and so we're going to move from on-prem to public cloud on Kubernetes, to make it part of the migration. And that'll be years. I still like, I have fingers into other areas, like I still know a lot of people in the nonprofit space and a lot of nonprofits just got around to adopting virtualization, right? Like they're not even at public cloud yet. I don't even talk to them about Kubernetes. There's this huge long tail in terms of adoption. The nice thing is we don't show any signs of stopping, is that one of the things that we kind of learned from earlier stuff particularly learned from our friends at OpenStack was to really really focus on the APIs, to look at who Kubernetes more as the hub of a system of an infrastructure idea with potentially unbounded growth. If you have a new concept that comes in like service mesh, service mesh is not a successor to Kubernetes. It's not an alternative to Kubernetes. It is a thing you layer on top of Kubernetes because we didn't make it exclusive. >> Right. Great, great example going back to OpenStack and thank you for bringing that in because there's lessons learned. And so Josh, we've got to leave it there. Thanks so much for coming back in theCUBE, great conversation, you're awesome. >> Okay, good to talk to you. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody, keep it right there for more content from Postgres Vision 21. My name is Dave Vellante, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Alright, welcome back to help us dig into this discussion and happy to welcome to the program. Chris Prasad. He is the senior vice president and general manager of the V Sphere business And just Simon, chief technologist for the high performance computing group. Both of them with VM ware. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining. >>Thank you for having us. >>All right, Krish. When VM Ware made the bit fusion acquisition, everybody was looking the You know what this will do for this space GP use? We're talking about things like AI and ML. So bring us up to speed. As to, you know, the news today is the what being worth doing with fusion. >>Yeah. Today we have a big announcement. I'm excited to announce that, you know, we're taking the next big step in the AI ml and more than application strategy. With the launch off bit fusion, we just now being fully integrated with the V Sphere seven black home and we'll be releasing this very shortly to the market. As you said when we acquired institution a year ago, we had a showcase that's capable base as part of the normal event. And at that time we laid out a strategy that part of our institution as the cornerstone off our capabilities in the platform in the Iot space. Since then, we have had many customers. Take a look at the technology and we have had feedback from them as well as from partners and analysts. And the feedback has been tremendous. >>Excellent. Well, Chris, what does this then mean for customers, you know, what's the value proposition? That diffusion brings the visa versa? >>Yeah, if you look at our customers, they are in the midst of a big ah journey in digital transformation. And basically, what that means is customers are building a ton of applications, and most of those applications have some kind of data analytics or machine learning embedded in it. And what this is doing is that in the harbor and infrastructure industry, this is driving a lot of innovation. So you see the admin off a lot off specialized accelerators, custom a six FPs. And of course, the views being used to accelerate the special algorithms that these ai ml type applications need And, um, unfortunately, customer environment. Most of these specialized accelerators in a bare metal kind of set up. So they're not taking advantage off optimization and everything that it brings to that. Also, with fusion launched today, we are essentially doing the accelerator space. What we need to compute several years ago. And that is, um, essentially bringing organization to the accent leaders. But we take it one step further, which is, you know, we use the customers the ability to pull these accelerators and essentially going to be a couple of from the server so you can have a pool of these accelerators sitting in the network, and customers are able to then target their workloads and share the accelerators, get better utilization, drive a lot of cost improvements and, in essence, have a smaller pool that they can use for a whole bunch of different applications across the enterprise. That is a huge enabler for our customers. And that's the tremendous positive feedback that we get getting both from customers as well. >>Excellent. Well, I'm glad we've got Josh here to dig into some of the pieces, but before we get to you they got Chris. Uh, part of this announcement is the partnership of VM Ware in Dell. So tell us about what the partnership is in the solutions for for this long. >>Yeah. We have been working with the Dell in the in the AI and ML space for a long time. We have, ah, good partnership there. This just takes the partnership to the next level, and we will have, ah, execution solution support in some of the key. I am. It'll targeted the words like the sea for 1 40 the r 7 40 Those are the centers that would be partnering with them on and providing solutions. >>Okay, Tough. Take us in a little bit further as how you know the mechanisms of diffusion work. >>Yeah, that's a great question. So think of it this way. There there is a client component that we're using in a server component. The server component is running on a machine that actually has the physical GP use installed in it. The client machine, which is running the bit fusion client software, is where the user, the data scientist, is actually running their machine machine learning application. But there's no GPU actually in that host. And what is happening with fusion technology is that it is essentially intercepting the Cuda calls that are being made by that machine learning application and promoting those protocols over to the bit fusion server and then injecting them into the local GPU on the server. So it's actually, you know, we call it into a position in the ability that remote these protocols, but it's actually much more sophisticated than that. There are a lot of underlying capabilities that are being deployed in terms of optimization who takes maximum advantage of the, uh, the networking link that's it between the client machine and the server machine. But given all of that, once we've done it with diffusion, it's now possible for the data scientist either consume multiple GP use for single GPU use or even fractional GP use across that interconnected using the using technology. >>Okay, maybe it would help illustrate some of these technologies. If you got a couple of customers. >>Yeah, sure. So one example would be a retail customer. I'm thinking of who is. Actually it's ah grocery chain that is deploying ah, large number of video cameras into their into their stores in order to do things like, um, watch for pilfering, uh, identify when storage store shelves could be restocked and even looking for cases where, for example, maybe a customer has fallen down in denial on someone needs to go and help those multiple video streams and then multiple applications that are being run that part are consuming the data from those video screens and doing analytics and ml on them would be perfectly suited for this type of environment where you would like to be ableto have these multiple independent applications running. But having them be able to efficiently share the hardware resources of the GP is another example would be retailers who are deploying ML our check out registers who helped reduce fraud customers who are buying, buying things with, uh, fake barcodes, for example. So in that case, you would not necessarily want to deploy ah single dedicated GPU for every single check out line. Instead, what you would prefer to do is have a full set of resource. Is that each inference operation that's occurring within each one of those check out lines but then consume collectively. That would be two examples of the use of this wonderful in technology. >>Okay, great. So, Josh, last question for you is this technology is this only for use and anything else? You can give us a little bit of a look forward as to what we should be expecting from the big fusion technology. >>Yeah. So currently, the target is specifically NVIDIA gpu use with Buddha. Ah, the team, actually, even prior to acquisition had done some work on enablement of PJs. And also, I have done some work on open CL, which is more open standard for device access. So what you will see over time is an expansion of the diffusion capabilities to embrace devices like F PJs of the domain. Specific. A six that was referring to earlier will roll out over time, but we are starting with the NVIDIA GPU, which totally makes sense, since that is the primary hardware acceleration. And for deep learning currently >>excellent. Well, John and Chris, thank you so much for the updates to the audience. If you're watching this live leads growing, the crowd chat out Im to ask your questions. This page, if you're watching this on demand, you can also go to crowdchat dot net slash make ai really to be able to see the conversation that we had. Thanks so much for joy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, >>yeah.

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back everyone. Live cube covers here at reinvent 2019 in Las Vegas. I'm John, your host extracting the signal from the noise with Stu Miniman analysts at Silicon angle, the cube and Wiki bond. We've got two great guests talking about the ecosystem and the future of software and how customers are consuming it in the cloud. Todd Osborne G VP of alliances and channels at new Relic and Josh Hoffman, GM and global lead of ISB partner ecosystem of AWS. Guys, welcome to the cube. Thanks so much for having us. So guys, we're the top story to me at this show. So far as I'll see infrastructure at scale. The software development life cycle is continuing to evolve. We are more automation, more as Andy says, heavy lifting's being done, which means that application developers are going to get more and more goodness. Dev ops created infrastructure as code check. Now we've got data, tons of data everywhere. So we're, we're seeing an ISB Renaissance more software. You guys are out there writing software. So what you guys take so far of the impact of the ISV here, Josh, to talk about that because this is a big story, does >>massive, I mean if you walk around the floor, you'll see folks that are automating new ways of doing dev ops. You're looking at new ways of securing serverless functions. Um, you're looking at new types of storage. So you could go across every category of technology in this room and you will see an incredible amount of batim innovation. Our partners are really driving that. >>Talk about the relationship with AWS, new Relic, longstanding partnership. Where is it now? Where's it going? It's, I mean, it's off the charts. So even just the last year, the amount of momentum we've built together as has been fantastic. So we participated in a whole bunch of different programs. We've got dozens, hundreds of joint customers that were doing things together. I mean, just look at this event. It's just a, it's just astonishing. We operate in a lot of different partner models, um, from, from reselling, uh, with, with various partners to building technology programs to participating, uh, with Josh and team and our friends. Uh, our friend Dave McCann and team on a eight of us marketplace. Just a whole host of different things that just continue to, to, uh, expand the partnership at scale. And the consumer is ation of the software, the procurement process she's had Teresa crossing off from public sector, whether you're in the public sector or commercial procurement still stuck in 1995 it feels like, right? >>I mean, like, are they modernizing? They've got a lot more ways to get software with the marketplace. What are you guys seeing with customers? Is it really that bad? Am I over over it? It's not that bad, but you know what I'm saying? I mean, so from my perspective, one of the cool we're seeing is, um, AWS in the cloud. Providers are driving a consolidation of budget of modern stuff, of cloud, of, of all the new things that companies want to do. That's all getting consolidated either in a new groups or new budget cycles and AWS is making it really easy to participate in those. So through programs like the marketplace, through various other other initiatives that we're doing, we can combine what we want to achieve with, with what the customer wants to achieve, which is speed to market with, which is with what AWS wants to achieve, which is faster adoption of all the different services and bringing the right ecosystem along with it. >>So the modernization of the procurement cycles along with the monetization of the technology is really cool to watch. Well, I wanted to ask that before. I want to get to the question that I'm that interested Andy Jassy his point on this keynote, Hey, this is the first time I heard him talk like this. We see two types of developers and two types of customers. People want the low level building blocks, the builders and then a new set of customers who want solutions. Yup. This is, this is your wheelhouse. This is where the solution network kind of ecosystem is evolving very quickly. Can you guys share your observations on what that, what he means by that and what does it mean for customers? >>I'll share it in the context of what we're doing with new Relic. Um, when you think of the concept of a solution, a lot of our customers, hundreds of our enterprise customers are going through our migration programs. They need help making sure that what they're doing on prem is translating to what's happening in the cloud, what the applications are doing on prem, and how they're performing in the cloud. So we've collaborated with NewRelic over the last year and a half on a number of new, not just migration programs, but windows or views into how the applications are performing. And we've designed those specifically for customers who are going through those migrations. So you just take that one little category. Um, and it's an area where we're collaborating together to bring something that is a full solution to the customer for those who are going through that migration journey. >>Your take on the whole solution thing. Yeah. So we, uh, last year at reinvent, we announced really the first solution that new Relic had ever launched trying to meet that market need and we, we announced the cloud adoption solution. So everybody knows we've got this great platform with all these cool features. We had never really gone to market and said, not only do we just address application monitoring or infrastructure mining, we actually address the business outcome of migrating to the cloud and all the benefits of doing that. So we announced that as a methodology last year. We added to that over this, this past year because we've enhanced our platform to, uh, have this new capability that we call programmability, which is the ability to write applications on top of the new Relic platform. So we've built, and we launched today a cloud adoption solution application. Kind of a mouthful. >>But what it is, is it is, it's the ability to use our technology and our platform to very easily drop that into a customer and help them very quickly get time to value of delivering on a solution and ultimately achieving the business outcome they're looking for. Yeah, I taught actually. So as you know, I was at your conference earlier this year in New York city where you really defined what a platform should be. And just like Amazon, what you want is you want builders and you want them putting solutions on Dabo. It gives a little bit of the momentum of what you've seen since new Relic one, and then the rollouts. So I don't know the formal count, but I know we're way past the dozen applications that we launched since then. Uh, we also added several different features including logging and some other technologies. We've closed a bunch of different deals with these new technologies since then. >>Um, and then a couple of the cool things from the partner ecosystem that we've done is with the platform capabilities we have, uh, firstly we're now, uh, getting ready to embark on building our first technology partner program. So we were talking to dozens of different partners in this room about how they can build with us on new Relic to make the platform even stickier, uh, for our customers that can now integrate NewRelic with various other technologies. And then the second, uh, thing we were proud to announce today is we've, we've actually just signed a three new managed service providers. So kind of another partner motion that we're driving in this ecosystem. And the new, all the new features of the neurotic platform helped enable us, uh, to do some really cool things with the platform and also evolving business model, uh, to close. Uh, so we were excited to to close three, top 80 best partners, which is best been global, uh, uh, blaze clan and out of California mission cloud as three new partners that we, uh, just, uh, signed agreements with. >>So we're happy to do that. Yeah. When we talk about the transformation, you know, one of the biggest challenges for customers is their application portfolio. I noticed new Relic has two boosts here. There's one specifically just focused on serverless, which I think is awesome. It's got some cool things. They're very focused on that developer app dev deployment there. Um, but you know, your customers, they've got a broad spectrum of applications and that journey to transformation in a modern nation is going to take time. How do you deal with the spectrum of what they're dealing with? But Todd, maybe start with you and then Josh would love your viewpoints too. I mean the spectrum. Massive. So our biggest challenge is keeping up with everything and continuing to innovate with all the things that are happening. But again, the benefits of the platform that we have enables us to do that in the enhancements. >>We wait and we made this year, this year. Um, now that our platform is, is more open, we can connect data, collect data from multiple entities, not just the new Relic, uh, agents that we've, that we were built on. So, uh, the concept of observability and being able to observe the entire application environment, um, is built on the fact that data's gotta come from all these different places. Then we need to turn that around and curate it, uh, into the right experience and the right use case that the customer's looking for. So, uh, all I can say is that, uh, our, our company is built on innovation. We try and stay on the cutting edge of all that. Try and stay current with that and meet the customer's needs as, as everyone here is innovating like S easy at scale. Todd, talk about what's going on in New York. >>What's the coolest thing going out with new Relic right now? Cause Lou always comes on the Q lose to CEO and he's cool. We love him, but he's always got his hands in something. Yes, he got the observability down. Cloud operations becoming standard. That's a tailwind for you guys as a company. But what cool things are you guys working on right now? Um, I certainly can't do Lou any justice. So the customer stories and things and he comes up with are amazing, but you know, from an industry's perspective, like gaming is hot. Um, and it's just like media and entertainment is hot. So we're just doing some really cool things with some really cool customers. Um, maybe not as cool as Lou would be, but you know, customers like, uh, are really adopting our migration story and we're really driving some significant business together. So customers like world fuel services and fleet complete, uh, we've recently come out and announced the stories of how we're helping these companies migrate. >>And frankly that's what's, that's what's cool about it is like everyone wants to get on the cloud faster, do more faster, and we're, we're enabling that, uh, in some really cool customers. So I'll to get your both reactions just to memes that we're developing on the cube this week. One is called, one is cloud native. If you take the T out, it's cloud naive. Okay. So, and the other one is something that I use on my post when my Andy story I did was you got born in the cloud, which is clear benefits. There's no, there's no discussion there. Check winning builder, but reborn in the cloud as companies are becoming reborn, this isn't the Mike, not just migration. There's a fundamental mind shift shift. Yeah. This is a reborn enterprise. And if you're not be born in the cloud and you're probably not going to be around longer, that seems to be the message. What's your reaction to cloud native without the T and reborn in the cloud? >>Well, I think it's, I think it's an accurate statement. It's funny. It's the first I've heard it. I may steal it. If I can use it, please pass it on. I will. Um, I would say that from an APM perspective, many of our partners are in different phases of their journey. Um, and so everything that we do is around three anchor points, which is helping those companies build great software if they haven't already, or if they're making that transition. Once they've made that transition, how do we help them market the software? And then the third piece is really how do we help them sell it? So in the case of new Relic, um, we've got a number of folks around the world that are helping with that co-sale process based on the solutions that we've jointly defined. Um, and then we also help build out the channel because as AWS, we've got tens of thousands of consulting partners. So the idea when you talk about that journey of becoming cloud native is how do you help a partner through that? You've got to hit on all three of those pillars to do it right. The leadership's got to be there for the top. Totally. You've got to have board alignment. You've got to have executive sponsorship, you've got to have technical buying, all of it. >>You guys have a very savvy customer base, Bray cloud native observability. What is the naivety uh, um, issue? What are people mostly naive about? Cause if you don't do it right with instrumentation observability if you're naive about that, you're going to get bitten in the, you know what? Well being, being naive there is not having your observability platform in place. So, but, but you really can't anymore. The old world of if you had a monolithic application running on servers monitoring, sometimes it was optional or a nice to have something today. You couldn't, you could only afford on your most mission critical applications as soon as you flipped a dev ops, a bunch of cloud native technologies, um, modern applications, but on the most modern frameworks with entities that are, that have all these dependencies to make sure that application works. Monitoring is a must, must have an observability is a must have. >>So that's now even in day one, out of the box, out of the one and two, the in to the reborn comment. As soon as you cross that path, you report, you rebirth yourself every day. Like it's constant. You're releasing code daily or multiple times a day, and so there's no like reborn statement anymore. It's a completely agile process. System changeover. This is not just saying it. You got to really believe what you're doing. You have to measure improvement, which is what new Relic is great at because if you take what's happening now on premise and you go to that transformation, you've got to show that you've actually achieved not just savings, but you're helping developers be more efficient and so you, you can't prove that story without the before and after. Yeah, yeah. Love talking to the cloud native gurus that you guys are, congratulations on your marketplace and ISV success. It's only getting the beginning of that run. It's kicking butt. Congratulations. Hundreds of thousands of customers are buying and hundreds of thousands more talk congratulates a new rule. Always great to have you guys on X. Great, impressive company, great results. Always great team, great product cloud, native ashore. Props to that. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate shit. Thanks so much. I'm John here in the cube, extracting the signal in the noise day. Two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Two sets here on the ground. Thanks for watching. We'll be right back.

>>From San Francisco. It's the cube covering PagerDuty summit 2019 brought to you by PagerDuty. >>Okay, welcome back everybody. Jeffrey here with the Q. We're in San Francisco at the Western st Francis historical hotel. It's our third year coming to PagerDuty sound, but I think it's the fourth year of the show. Jennifer tahana just finished the keynote. You can see those places packed with people packed with energy. We're excited to be back and have our first guest of the day. He's Josh Cade and chief evangelists at Cherwell. Josh, great to see you. Great to see you. Thanks for having me today. Absolutely. So have you been to a PagerDuty, sung it before? This is actually my first event with PagerDuty. What do you think yeah, I mean they've really grown. I mean Patriot and he's been a partner of ours for awhile, but they have grown so much so rapidly and I think, you know after the IPO especially, you know, they've, they've really grown pretty crazy. >>A lot of gasoline on the fire with the IP. Exactly right. So let's jump into with the Cherwell for people aren't familiar with Cherwell, what are you guys all about? So Sheryl software is a company that we specialize in it service management and enterprise service management. So we recognize that the world of what we used to know is like help desk management and whatnot has grown. You know, digital transformation means that more people are involved in more revenue bearing activities across the company. And just like PagerDuty recognizes, you're always on, you've got to keep doing all of these things across the company. And so what we do is we act as a system of record to move request to move orchestration across an organization across all teams. So it's not just an it focus and we build a platform basically to enable the building out of all of your processes, automation, orchestration, et cetera. >>We focus in ITSs because the it group is, is the best entry point for this kind of functionality inside of an organization because they have the best broad kind of horizontal view across all departments. Um, but again, we've got customers that use it in a pretty much any kind of way from running public housing development to all kinds of just uses that we never even imagined. Right. Okay. So I think what's confusing to people, certainly the layman certainly me, is you know, there's kind of all these competing system of records, it appears from the outside and we know ITSMs space, we've covered it for a long time. You know, you need to have a single system of record to know what the answer is. And yet, you know, PagerDuty announces all these integrations with all these systems like Cherwell. How do those systems work together to still maintain kind of system of record integrity and yet leverage the capabilities of the different platforms? >>Yeah. You know, it's an interesting thing because we're seeing so much convergence in the industry and we're seeing that, you know, pretty much all of our software has to talk to all of our software, right? And so what we're seeing a lot is system of record doesn't necessarily mean the same thing that it used to. You may have a system of record for your customer data, you may have a system of record for your financial data, you may have a system of record for your request management and workflow data. And the key is really making those things talk to each other. And so, you know, between the, you know, the cloud and all of the growth that we've had there and, and the way that software just works, it's really about being able to handshake and talk to other companies. Software. Okay. And you know, so it's also about companies, one of the problems that happens in a lot of companies is you choose too many systems of record and you know, so you've got this team that all has different data. >>So I think that's part of what we'll see the kind of the future battle of the next few years is either we all got to talk together or somebody has to, you know, become more prevalent and become a bigger system of record if you get what I mean. So what are some of the use cases where the two systems, PagerDuty system, the Cherwell system would interact around a particular type of customer interaction? Yup. So there's a couple of different entry points, but uh, one of them is, so let's say a customer has a request so it's not even an incident for example. So they have a request and you've got SLS where you've got to fulfill a request very quickly. Um, you know, Sharewell is great at getting that request, interacting with the customer, making sure that they know, you know what to expect and whatnot. PagerDuty is great at getting the team together and getting people together to fulfill those things. >>And so there's that kind of transition point where that request goes to PagerDuty and PagerDuty gets to bring the team together, work on fulfilling that thing and get back to the customer, Hey, your thing has been fulfilled. Okay. So another one that happens, a great use case is, you know, we have a lot of links to different event monitoring. You know, just like PagerDuty does. But a lot of times those things will come to our system and turn into, uh, incidents, you know, in our system. So we're able to send that data over to PagerDuty and basically with up the team and get things moving so that we can resolve that event. And we have a upcoming integration to basically share that back and forth. I believe we're actually officially announcing it next week at our conference in Nashville. Um, but so we have an upcoming integration so that we'll be pushing stuff to directional and getting things from pager duty and pushing things back in. >>Great example. That's a great uh, example cause what you're basically doing is breaking the problem down into the pieces that each of the different software takes care of and PagerDuty's really good at figuring out kind of who the team needs to be pulling together the teams and having a relatively low impact, uh, task group to come in and fix that, that the resolution. Well, and you know, while being a system of record for request management and workflow and whatnot, you know, one of the things that we see in the industry is so many of the customers want best of breed. They don't necessarily want one piece of software to come in and try to be everything cause nobody can be everything. Right? And so that key of lets you know, PagerDuty does what they're really good at. We do what we're really good at. Um, our customers really like that. >>So that's how we partner with other companies. Okay. So later today I think you're giving a session on low code. Um, what does low code, I mean I I have an opinion but share would, do you guys think it's low code or why is low code so, so low code is really important for a few reasons, but the first is really, I would say time to value. So when you have to spin up a development team and spend a lot of time to build everything that you want to do in your organization, just a simple business process that can take a lot of time and expense. So the Sharewell platform is built in a low code way. Most of the things that you can do in our software you do through drag and drop interfaces. And a lot of times we'll have people a little skeptical. >>You know, when they first encounter us, no, we need to write Java script or we need to write some language and we bring them into the system and they find, no, not only do not have to, but you can accomplish what you needed to before you got done planning what code you were going to go. Right. You know, forget testing and all that kind of stuff. So most of what you can do in Sharewell is actually no code, but we call it low code because when it comes to integrating, oftentimes you need to speak to other API. So you know, not every piece of software out there is no code. So talking to rest API is talking to other API APIs, you know, integrating things together. That's where a little bit of code comes in. But we also have, you know, basically drag and drop interfaces for even integrating to other things. >>We have something in tune of 80 partnerships right now, partners that we integrate with and that number is growing all the time. Okay. So is the main benefit of low code just the existing developers being able to move faster or we're hearing a lot of conversation about is really kind of democratization and letting people at maybe kid code in the ed are not qualified to do that last integration step, but the start to build absolute lows and processes without having to figure out if I'm doing it in Java or Perl. Yeah, no, it's, it's definitely both of those things. I mean, you know, so you know, the time to value aspect is important for those devs, but often, you know, companies can be utilizing those resources in a much more fruitful manner. And so if you allow the service owners or business analysts to be able to go in and actually affect those processes, just like you're saying, that democratization really helps speed up a business. >>Right? So in terms of engines for your guys' growth, you know, there's a bunch of them that are talked about all the time. There's dev ops, um, which, which is clearly the right bet to make 10 years ago. There's cloud, which has worked out pretty well. Um, and then this whole thing, that digital transformation that everyone is, is, is a, is trying to get done. Yup. No. Which of those three do you think are most important? How do you see those kinds of playing out in your business? So, you know, I think all three are very important. I think digital transformation though is, you know, if you don't transform your business and take advantage of digital transformation right now, you're liking amoeba in the primordial goo. Watching those first fish walk on land and laughing at, that's just a trend. You know, I think all businesses need to transform themselves and take advantage of the digital technologies that they can get ahold of. >>So I think for us, you know, being an accelerator for that being a way that you can bring inputs and outputs into a singular platform and basically, you know, speed up that ability to transform and make it more predictable, uh, utilizing governance and auditability and all those things that don't generally happen in a dev ops or a transformation environment. Right. That's really our key and that's, I think where we're going to see the industry. You know, everybody has to transform to stay competitive and so we're focused on that transformation or I'm distracted. Jen just walked by the star of the show and really make it. Absolutely. All right, Josh, thanks for taking a few minutes. Good luck on your talk. No brag, good luck at your event in Nashville. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Josh on Jeff here watching the cube words PagerDuty summit at the historic Wetsons de France. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

(upbeat techno music) >> Announcer: From New York City, it's theCUBE, covering New Relic FutureStack 2019, brought to you by the New Relic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of New Relic's Futurestack 2019 here in New York City, seventh year of the show. Our first year here, about 600 or so in attendance, and real excited, because we've had some of the users here to help kick off our coverage. And joining us, first time guest on the program, Josh Biggely is a senior engineer of Enterprise Monitoring, with Cardinal Health coming to us from a little bit further north and east than I do, Prince Edward Island, thank you so much for coming here to New York City and joining me on the program. >> Yeah, thanks for having me Stu, I'm excited to be here. I haven't been in New York, it's probably been more two decades. So it's nice to be back in a big city, I live in a very small place. >> Yeah, so if you go to Times Square, it's now Disneyland, is what we call it. It's not the 42nd street that it might've been a couple of decades ago. I grew up about 45 minutes from here, so it's gone through a lot, love the city, especially gorgeous weather we're having here in the fall. >> I'm excited for it. >> All right, so Josh, Cardinal Health, health is in the name so we think we understand a little bit about it, but tell us a little bit about the organization itself and how it's going through changes these days. >> Sure, so Cardinal Health is a global healthcare solutions provider. We are essential to care, which means we deliver the products and solutions that your healthcare providers need to literally cure disease, keep people healthy. So we're in 85% of the hospitals in the United States, 26,000 pharmacies, about 3,000,000 different home healthcare users receive products from us. Again we're global, so we're based in Dublin, Ohio, just outside of Columbus. But obviously, I live in Canada so I work for the Cardinal Health Canada Division. We've got acquisitions around the world. So yeah, it's an exciting company. We've recently gone through a transformation not only as a company, but from a technology side where we've shifted one of our data centers entirely into the cloud. >> All right, and Josh, your role inside the company, tell us a little bit about, you said it's global, what's under your purview? >> So my team is responsible for Enterprise Monitoring, and that means that we develop, deploy, support and integrate solutions for monitoring both infrastructure applications and digital experience for our customers. We have a number of tools, including New Relic, that we use. But it's a broad scope for a small team. >> Stu: Okay, and you've talked about that transformation. Walk us through a little bit about that, what led to, as you said, some big moves into public cloud? >> Yeah, our team is part of an overall effort to allow Cardinal Health to be more adaptive, to be more agile. The move to cloud allows teams that are developing applications and platforms to make a decision how to respond to the needs of their customers more rapidly. Gone are the days of, "I need a new server, "I need to predict six months from now "that I'm going to need a new server, "put the order in, get it delivered, "get it racked, get it wired." We watch a lot of people, the provision on demand. I mean, our senior vice president, or my senior vice president, likes to say, "I want you to fail fast, fail cheap." He does not say fail often. Although sometimes I do that, but that's okay. As long as you recognize that you're failing and can roll that back, redeploy, It's been really transformative for my team in particular, who was very infrastructure focused when I started with the company five years ago. >> Stu: All right, and can you bring us inside from your application portfolio, was it a set of applications, was it an entire data center? What moved over, how long did it take, and can you share what cloud you're using? >> Sure, so it's been about a two year journey. We're actually a multicloud company. We've got a small footprint in Azure, small footprint in AWS, but we're primarily in Google Cloud. We are shutting down one data center, we are minimizing another data center, and we've moved everything. We've moved everything from small bespoke applications that are targeted on team to entire ecommerce platforms and we've done everything from lift and shift, which I know you don't like to hear. But we've done lift and shift, we've done rehosting, we've done refactoring and we have re-architected entire platforms. >> Yeah, so if you could expand a little bit when we say lift and shift, I'm fine with lift and shift as long as there's another word or plan after that which I'm expecting you do have. >> Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So the lift and shift was, "Hey, let's move from our data centers into GCP. "Let's give teams the visibility, the observability "that they need so that they can make the decisions on "what they need to do best." In a lot of cases, or in fact, in 15% of the 6,500 severs that we touch, we actually full out decommed the instance. Teams had them, they were running at our data centers but they weren't actually providing any value to the company. >> So you said your team before was mostly concerned about infrastructure and a lot of what you did is now on GCP so you fired the entire team and you hired a bunch of PhDs to be able to manage Google environments? >> Absolutely not. (laughter) The principals of enterprise monitoring as a practice still apply in a cloud. We are, at heart, data geeks. And I would fair say that we're actually data story tellers. Our job is to give tools and methodologies to application teams who know what the data means in context, but we give the tools to provide that data to them. >> Stu: All right, love that. I believe I've actually seen data geek shirts at the the New Relic shows itself. But data story tellers, that was kind of thing that you heard, "I have a data scientist "that's going to help us to do this." Is that data scientist in New York or are you actually enabling who is able to tell those data stories today? >> So that is the unique part. Data story telling is not a data science. I wish that I could be a data scientist, I like math, but I'm not nearly that good at it. A data story teller takes the data and the narrative of the business, and weaves them together. When you tell someone, "Here's some data." They will look at it and they will develop their own narrative around it. But as a story teller you help craft that narrative for them. They're going to look at that data and they're going to feel it, They're going to understand it and it's going to motivate them to act in a way that is aligned with what the business objectives are. So data story tellers come in all forms. They come as monitoring engineers, they're app engineers, but they're also people who are facing the customer, they're business leaders, they're people in our distribution centers who are trying to understand the impacts of orders in their order flow, in their personnel that they have. It is a discipline that anyone can engage in if we're willing to give them the right tools. >> All right, so Josh, you got rid of a data center, you're minimizing a data center, you're shifting to cloud, you're making a lot of changes and now being able to tell data stories. Can you tell us organizationally everything goes smoothly or are their anythings that you learned along the way that maybe you could share with your peers to help them along that journey? And any rough spots, with hindsight being what it is, that you might be able to learn from? >> Yeah, so hindsight definitely 20/20. The one thing that I would say to folks is get your data right. Metadata, trusting your data is key, it's absolutely vital. We talk a lot about automation and automation is one of those things that the cloud enables very nicely. If you automate on garbage data, you are going to automate garbage generation. That was one of our struggles but I think that every organization struggles with data fidelity. But teams need to spend more time in making sure that their data, specifically their metadata, around, "Hey is this prod, is it non-prod, "what stack is this running, who built it?" Those things definitely need to be sorted out. >> Okay, talk about the observability and the monitoring that you do, how long have you been using New Relic and what products? And tell us a little about that journey. >> Sure, so we've been using New Relic for about two years. It was a bit of a slow run up to its adoption. We are a multi-tool company so we have a number of tools. Some of them are focused primarily on our network infrastructure, our on-prem storage. Although Cardinal had moved predominantly to the cloud, we have distribution centers, nuclear pharmacies all around the world. And those facilities have not gone into the cloud. So you've got network connectivity. New Relic for us has filled our cloud niche and observability, as Lou announced, is going to give us context to things that we're after. You hear the term dark data, we call them obs logs. It's data that we want to have, we only need it for a very short period of time to help us do post-op or RCAs as well as to look at, overall in our organization, the performance of the applications. For us, New Relic is going to give us an option to put data for observability. Observability is really about high fidelity data. In its world of cloud, everyone wants everything right now. And they also want it down to the millisecond. A platform that can pull that off, that's a remarkable thing. >> Yeah, Veruca Salt had it right, "I want it now." So are you using New Relic One yet? >> We have been using New Relic One for at least a couple of months going back into March this year. It's exciting, we're one of those companies that Lou talked about in his key note, we have hundreds of sub accounts. And we did so very intentfully, but it was a bit of a nightmare before we got to New Relic One. That ability for a platform team to see across multiple sub accounts, really powerful. >> Okay, so you saw a lot of announcements this morning. Anything particular that jumped out, you were excited? Because Lou kept saying over and over, and if you're using New Relic One, "This is free, this is free, this is free." That platform where it's all available for you now. >> I think the programmability is one of the things that really got me excited. One of the engineers on my team had a chance to go and sit with Lou and team, two weeks ago, and was part of that initial Hackathon. Made some really interesting things. That's exciting so shout out to Zack and the work he did. Logging, for me, is something that is huge. I know we've got data that we should have in context. So that Lou announced five terabytes of ingestion for free, all I could do was tap my fingers together and think, "Oh, okay. You're asking for it, Lou. Challenge accepted." (laughter) >> Stu: That's exciting, right. So you feel that you're going to be building apps, it sounds like already, at the FutureHack. That you're starting to move down that path. >> Definitely, and I'm really excited. Not to necessarily give it to my team. We build the patterns for teams that needs patterns, but there are so many talented individuals at Cardinal Health who, if we give them the patterns to follow, they're just going to go execute. Open sourcing that is a brilliant idea and really crowd sourcing development is the way to go. >> Yeah, I think you bring up a really interesting point. So even though your team might be the one that provides the platform, you're giving that programmability, sensibility to a broader audience inside the team and democratizing the data that you have in there. >> Yes, you keyed in on one of the things I love to talk about which is democratized access to data. Over and over again you'll hear me preach that, "I know what I know but I also know what I don't know "and more particular I don't know what I don't know. "I need other people to help me recognize that." >> We've really talked about that buzzword out there about digital transformation. When it is actually being happened, it goes from, "Oh, somebody had an opinion," to, "Wait, I actually now can actually get to the data, "and show you the data and leverage the data "to be able to take good actions on that." >> That's right, data driven decision making is not just just an idiom. It's not something that is a buzzword, it is a practice that we all need to follow. >> Stu: All right, so Josh, you're speaking here at the show. Give our audience just a quick taste, if you will, about what you're going to be sharing with your peers here at the show. >> We've actually talked about a lot of it already so I hope that people are not going to watch this session before my session later. But it really is around the power of additional transformation, the power of observability, what happens when you do things right, and the way the cloud makes teams more nimble. I won't give you it all because then people won't watch my session on Replay but, yeah, it'll be good. >> Well, definitely they should check that out. I'm hoping New Relic has that available on Replay. Give the final word here, what you're really hoping to come out of this week. Sounds like your team's deeply engaged, you've done the Hackathon, you're working with the executive teams. So FutureStack 2019, what are you hoping to walk away with? >> For me, it's about developing patterns. My team, in addition to our enterprise architecture team, is responsible for mapping out what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. Teams want to go fast and if we're not going to lay down the foundation for them to move quickly, especially in the realm of enterprise monitoring, they're going to try do it themselves. Which may or may not work. We don't want to turn teams away from using specific tools if it fits, but if there's a platform that will allow them to execute and to keep all that data centralized, that is really the key to observability. Having that high fidelity data, but then being able to ask questions, not just of the data you put in, but the data that put in maybe by a platform team or by a team that supported Kubernetes or PCF. >> All right, well, Josh Biggely, thank you so much for sharing all that you've been going through in Cardinal Health's transformation. Great to talk to you. >> Thanks so much, Stu. >> All right, lots more here at New Relic's FutureStack 2019. I'm Stu Miniman and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

(futuristic techno music) >> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, celebrating ten years of high-tech coverage, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and it's eco-system partners. >> Good morning, welcome to day three of our coverage here on theCUBE of VMworld 2019. We're at Moscone Center North, here in San Francisco. Kind of a, well not kind of, it's a really cloudy day but I kind of expect that. We've been talking about clouds all week, right? Multi, hybrid, public, private, you name it, we've been talking about it. John Walls and Dave Vellante, good to see you this morning. >> Good to see you John. >> Yep. We're joined now by a couple of executives from Kaminario. Josh Epstein, who's a CMO and Eyal David who's the CTO of Kaminario. Good morning gentlemen, >> Good morning, >> Morning. >> Great to be here, great to be here. First of, let's just talk about the show. I know you've got a presence down on the floor, just your feeling about the traffic, the kind of traffic you're seeing at your booth, what the questions are, coming from customers, maybe what those answers are. Eyal, why don't you jump on that? >> Yeah, so first of all, it's great to be back in San Francisco for this conference! >> John: Here, here! >> Dave: Agreed! >> Definitely. (laughter) And I think it's very clear that, yes definitely, cloud is the name of the game, and especially how do you implement a hybrid cloud, customers are all on their cloud journey, and the big question is, "How do I do that?" "How do I take these new technologies, the cloud, "containers, and how do I take my applications "and my data services to the next step?" And it's kind of all over the place, all decisions, all the customers are asking about, this is where the focus is, where the interest is, and it's a great to be in the center of all of that. >> Yeah, you made a big decision, or a big announcement about a month ago. You said, "Okay, public cloud; that's where we're going." Josh, the driver behind that and kind of, what the early fall outs were? >> Sure, sure. I mean, we started our journey, really from the beginning of Kaminario, Kaminario's about ten years old, and you know, the data storage market, as a traditional all-flash storage array. The past 24 months, we've really pivoted the business model towards first, 100% software, we got out of the appliance business, started really focusing our business on doing these large software based implementations, moving into more subscription based revenue, kind of delivering that cloud based economics experience. And then, over the last several months, we've been focusing on taking our core architecture, which fundamentally decouples the data services from annoying infrastructure, and thinking about how that might actually look on public clouds. So doing the same thing, kind of creating this sort of shared storage experience, delivering all the traditional enterprise class data services, but sitting on public cloud infrastructure. It's been a really interesting journey. >> So let's double click on that, because it's clear that this space is not about the media, it's about the business model, it's about the additional value you can add for customers, so maybe you could add a little bit of color, as to sort of, how's that going, where you guys are differentiating in the marketplace, where you're winning. >> Sure, I mean I think- >> Yeah. >> Jump in, Eyal. >> Yeah, so I think it's, as you said, it's not about the media, it's all about how do you help customers have a uniform experience around any deployment model. So they want to deploy on-prem, they want to deploy in the cloud, they are actively seeking for a uniform way to do that without too much heavy lift. There's some challenges in going to the cloud. If you are not born in the cloud, you need to re-architect your applications, you need to kind of, learn some new skills. There's a big challenge, especially if you have big data intensive applications. That's where we focus, delivering that uniform experience around orchestration of resources and data services across your on-prem, off-prem and public cloud implementations. >> So you guys decided not to ship a box anymore, you know the Silicon Valley show, "Where's the box?" so I'm interested in the technical challenges of doing that, but also the customer feedback, because sometimes people want an appliance, so how were you able to transition through that and what's the feedback been? >> Yeah, I think for us, I mean, our core business, our core customer, has really been cloud scale applications, for the last five years. So this is large SAAS providers, e-commerce platforms, fintech, healthtech, any of these large, mature software companies, right, their core business is delivering a cloud scale application. And for them, you know, many of them were born before the age of the public clouds, they've actually heavily invested in application architectures that rely on enterprise class and shared storage. That said, they see the draw towards the cloud, they see the benefit of the cloud like economics, subscription based, consumption based economics, and then the overall capability to scale up and scale down like the cloud does, but that said, they need that bridge, from where they are today, with traditional data centric architectures to this cloud world. >> You mentioned fintech, and there's an interesting case, because when the cloud really started to gain momentum, a lot of financial services companies, the big guys especially, said "You know, we can build our own clouds." And then they realized, "Well we can't build them as fast as Amazon can build them", and so they sort of pulled back on that. But they, and they sort of put their foot in the cloud, and then went all, and then they said, "Wait a minute." So what are you seeing, in terms of, call it the private cloud, you know, we've kind of swung back to that, is that gap closing, are they able to get close enough? The key part of that is obviously the pricing models, and the pay by the drink. I wonder if you could add some color to the on-prem cloud business- >> Josh: Sure. >> If we can call it that. Some people might object, but that's- >> Yeah, definitely. So the way we approach it is that we want to bring the simplicity, the agility and the flexibility of the cloud model to this on-prem data center, to deliver the same performance, control of a dedicated resource, which is exactly what these type of fintech customers are looking for. So, in our basic architecture, which was already, we decoupled from hardware, already decoupled performance from capacity, we're able to do that extremely flexibly. You can get the same flexibility of the cloud in an on-prem solution with all the benefits, and you can also decide, on your own pace, in your own terms, what you actually need and makes sense to run on a public cloud infrastructure. >> So scale is obviously a big deal for your customers, that's kind of been your focus since day one, what's the bell curve look like? Are we talking about scale in just the ability to scale quickly, or is it also the sheer size, and what does it look like? >> Yeah, I think it's about performance at scale, it's about control over performance at scale, it's about control over availability at scale, and it's obviously about cost at scale, right? I mean, it's too, there's so many different ways to look at the economics of public cloud versus on-prem. If you're looking at the pure dollar, it's clearly building on your own dedicated on-prem infrastructure, it's clearly cheaper than paying Amazon or Google or whoever to do it. But there's clear benefits to kind of going in that direction, in terms of agility, in terms of hands off management, in terms of really just, you know, staffing expertise. But I think it does come down to control, right? And when you talk about scale, when you talk about petabyte scale, it's easy to lose control, and this is the benefit of shared storage models, and this is where we think there's a real opportunity. >> Can I follow up on that, because you said there's a clear benefit of, if I understood it correctly, of building out your own prem infrastructure at some critical mass. There's obviously people, like Andy Jassy, who would disagree with that. So what's your data showing? I presume it's weighted towards large customers. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> But maybe you can add some color to that? >> We've certainly got good research, good analysis on this. And I think if you're talking about, we're talking about certainly over 500 terabytes to a petabyte, it's a multi petabyte scale, data driven applications, we're talking about business critical applications, big block storage, heavy analytics. If you compare just raw economics, the thing is, there's a lot more than just the raw economics, but the raw economics of an infrastructure built on Kaminario versus the equivalent infrastructure, built on one of the block storage resources from one of the public clouds, it's literally about 1/3 the cost, to build out your own dedicated infrastructure, leveraging a good, high quality colo, a good, high quality hardware underneath it. So raw economics, it's clear where that sits. >> Okay, so that's if we're comparing the cost of the, the acquisition costs versus some end number of years, right? >> That's correct, yeah exactly. >> And not really going into the labor costs at that- >> Not going into the direct labor costs of managing the storage, yes, there's clearly interesting benefits to going to a 100% cloud model. What that does to an organization, when you kind of, hands off, you know, you don't have the same kind of in house IT resources, you're out sourcing a lot of that- >> Well except what Eyal was saying before, is that you're trying to bring that cloud model to the data. So to the extent that you can close that gap, then you can- >> Eyal: Differently. >> Substantially mimic, exactly. >> We saw the opportunity to extend those capabilities into the public cloud, delivering a high performance storage solution in the cloud today is as expensive. Our focus over the years, of taking these commodity components and comprising them into a high performance shared storage solution. We can do the same in the cloud. >> But I think the key is multi-cloud. >> Yeah, let's talk about that. >> The key is that there's not one size fits all, and it really is about creating this mobility between your on-prem data and public cloud number one, and then public cloud number two. One of the key concerns about moving a business critical application to a public cloud is lock in, right? And if you can create this infrastructure where you're decoupling that data services stack that the application relies on, from the underlying infrastructure, you get this mobility between clouds that becomes really attractive. >> So you're kind of answering the next question that was on my mind, of how are you selling that to customers. The fact that we're having this very robust discussion about this fundamental shift and you get it, because you're providing this service to your whole client base, but if I'm a client, my head's starting to spin a little bit, right? And I've got big decisions to make, so how do you sell that, that this is not a little shift, this is a fundamental way, the way you're going to do your business? >> So, in the simplest form, we tell the customers that we significantly lower the barrier of entry into the cloud. You don't need to re-architect everything, you don't need to be worried about performance management, or, control, or orchestrating resources; we do all that for you, and we do it in the same way that we did it for you in your own on-prem data center, and we can do it on any of the public clouds. So the barrier of entry, the risk of actually doing that transition- >> John: Is lowered. >> Is lowered significantly, and you can that on your own pace, in your own terms, and make some smart decisions later on about what needs to reside where over time. >> So, when we think about multi-cloud, we think about, "Okay, I'm going to have data on-prem, I might choose "Azure for my collaborative workloads, "I might put my dev stuff in AWS, "I might put some analytics in Google..." You know, whatever, my business is going to decide what to do, I'm not going to have this grand, multi-cloud strategy, it's just kind of going to happen. And then IT's going to be called in to clean up the crime scene! But we're envisioning this architecture that's shipping metadata, and maybe compute to the data, versus moving data. Do you agree with that, or do you see it differently? >> We see, I think, two types of customers. Some behave just as you describe, but some have a very specific decision not to be locked into single vendors. So they'll say, "I'll put one business unit on Google Cloud, "and put the other business unit on Azure. "I'll put this certain type of application on one cloud, "and the other type on the other cloud, "because I want to make sure that I am cloud agnostic. "I'm actually mandating with an organization that "I can run anywhere." >> As a hedge. >> As a hedge, as a definite hedge, because they are concerned about locking to either of the vendors, and in that sense, they later on make the decision, "Okay, where is the "core of the data? "Where is my mission critical data which always "has some gravity, and how do I make sure that it's in "the right place at the right time." >> Doesn't that add complexity for the client? I mean, if they've got a workload here, and here, and here, it'll be a lot easier if it was all here, or most of it were here. But that adds, I'm wondering if- >> You're absolutely right, but what we see is this rapid shift towards embracing the multi-cloud model. So let's take an example. You have a classic cloud scale application, and might have an active/active data centers in two parts of the United States, sort of serving up the production application. You have dev test requirements, so they want the ability to rapidly spin up an environment to mimic a problem or do some development. Public cloud's a great example for that. You have DR requirements, your back up requirements, they want to be backing up, they want the ability to rapidly spin up in instance, in a public cloud instance, and no matter what, within every organization somewhere, even in the most sophisticated IT organizations where they have tremendous control over the data centers, some C-level exec somewhere that says, "In five years, I'm 100% on public cloud. I want nothing." So you have to sort of service that element as well, and what we're doing is saying, "Listen, you can continue to focus on building out "a world class, next generation data center, "based on the NVMe, all NVMe fabric, "and still have the mobility to do certain things "in the cloud, and still have this path, "if it makes for your organization, "to migrate the entire thing to public cloud, "and not get locked in." They'd be able to sort of, surf the clouds as actually- >> So technically, that means you have to speak as your API, S3, whatever language of the cloud, and so I'm trying to understand, sort of, technically, what you have to do, and then where you add value, where you pick up from whatever, VMware or whomever else is trying to be the control plane. >> So then, that is exactly the point, and to address the question about what the complexity of this multi-cloud world, this is exactly where we see the rise of this next generation orchestration framework, either from VMware or from others, that strive to give you this uniform experience. So we deliver that at the data services layer, we connect that to the orchestration layer, that allows you do seamless workload abilities, seamless data mobility to wherever it makes sense for those applications or business workloads to run. And basically, the customers expect, to date, that we encapsulate all that complexity for them. They want to be able to put their Google, Amazon or Azure credentials , and then forget exactly where it went. And this is a lot of what's going on in the floor this week, and that's exactly where we connect to the rest of that orchestration scene within the data center or the public cloud. >> So, in that context, are you primarily, I know you sell to a lot of different people, but is it the cloud architect, or the architect that's actually determining that throughout the organization, or is it again, cleaning up the crime scene type of a thing? >> It's usually a conversation with that CIO, who's kind of, on that cloud journey, building his cloud strategy, and even if he made the decision to in five years be in the cloud, now the question is, "Okay, what's happening in the meantime? "How do I actually do that?" >> One of the cool things that's happening in the meantime is most of our customers are in just this perpetual state of data center consolidation, right? Most of these large SAAS companies, they're growing through acquisition, they've got nine data to data centers, they all have a plan within two or three years to be consolidated on three next generation data centers and then have cloud mobility. So what we're able to do, this is leveraging our software model as well, is say, "Listen, let's do an enterprise wide, "unified licensing scheme, "where you're paying on consumption, "based on actual data stored, "and then you can build the underlying infrastructure "wherever you want. "You can base it on your traditional infrastructure "you might already own, it might be on next generation "NVMe, NVMe over Fabrics connected data centers, "and then a piece of it now might be in the public cloud." >> So, you're talking CIO, Dave, you're talking CSI, I'm just little confused! (laughter) Gentlemen, thanks for the time, we appreciate it. Great discussion, and continued success downstairs and on down the road. >> Great to be here guys, thank you. >> All right, back with more VMWorld 2019, here on theCUBE. (futuristic techno music)

>> I am stupid men. And this is a special on the ground at the V Tug SummerSlam 2019. Nicky knows this morning is a lot of discussion about what's happened toe I t operations >> people and all of the changes that are impacting their career. One >> of the keynote speakers is Josh at, >> Well, who's a senior technology advocate with Splunk. Just welcome back to the program, >> thanks to always good to be here. >> All right, so you wait until the final V tug to show up s o about better late than never. >> That's exactly the way I look at it. Thank you so much for >> joining and yeah, you know, before you know, I don't want to talk, really hear about community and jobs. And of course, that's right in your sweet spot to talk about. You know, I've met you, you know, years ago, through the virtual ization community virtualization community, always good at, you know, people sharing, contributing and learning with each other. And you know, >> how have you seen that? >> You know, changing as we go into these new worlds of you, talk about nuance and cloud computing and all of these new things that >> have been changing >> well, so that uncovers a whole lot. I >> think one of them We >> need you to do it in, you know, under five >> minutes. I don't think I've >> been ever to have any conversation under five minutes, but I think we could pull this >> up. I think that >> during the virtual ization emerges, we required the bloggers and the contributors in the community in order for us as a as a industry to mature. Even the vendors weren't holy prepared on everything that they were going to need to deliver to handle that change. I think we're seeing a similar type scenario play out now, as digital transformation is impacting so much of what I t and development does, we have a whole new crop in mechanisms for getting people on board and understanding these trends in these new mechanisms. And I think the biggest way that people have really gravitated to our recently from a community standpoint are around events like your develops meet ups, Dev. Ops Day's events like those have been a huge and then video video has been the other element that has been just completely exploding everywhere throughout this and used to be very focused on the written technical documentation. Now it's I'm gonna show you step by step, how to do all these things. And then the last bit that I think is really interesting is because of the changes that we face now. The cultural elements are vastly different. It's a lot more conversation as a community about the cultural impacts of more transparency addressing burnout. How do you you lead up and influence up in an organization. Lots of cool >> stuff, Jack. Just did I see you were actually advocating >> reading books. You know, in your presentation this morning, don't you know millennials? You know, if I if I can't get it on tic tac or something like that and you know my daily newsletter, you know, it's probably a bit little bit too long form I digest, but, you know, maybe expand a little bit about what you were going out there. Well, >> I think one thing >> that's really important to note is that specifically within the IittIe space and with I t operations on as we solid the keynote today, most people have 10 plus years of experience, right? Most of the younger folks coming in and the operations or doing operational roles. And I have a different perspective in view, and they will have more of a development background and what they're doing. And so it's still hyper relevant. Thio Enterprise I t. And I to operations as a whole or consumption through books. And there's some really high quality books that have been published in the last few years. >> Yeah, maybe if you could speak a >> little bit of that, that organizational dynamic you know, the I >> t people >> versus you know, hey, who are those developers? You know, they used to just, you know, build their stuff and tell me to make it work out there. They dress a little bit different. They don't understand their language, you know? Are we seeing I t. And the developers coming together, at least working together? >> I think it's inevitable that we're going to continue to see more and more of that as I talked about earlier today, when Cloud was kind of emerging and, you know, we had rogue I T people development things in particular, going out looking for an easier option to get the IittIe resource is they need most I T departments for, like, roof. We dodged a bullet. We're not going to have to deal with agile development and lean development practices. Well, then, it turned out, Well, we actually need to modernize all of our applications in various different ways. We need to rationalize where they need to go. There's a lot better cost models for some of these applications. Get out of the, you know, spending money on things that aren't differentiating to our business because we have to. And so as such, those bridges have to be developed, and it is on operations team kind of change The model. It was their developing. You're not developing, but ah, helping developers. >> All right, Josh, explain what this new ops thing is that you're talking about. I know you've got the new op stays on, and, you know, so explain a little bit about >> that. Okay, Uh, new >> offices. A realization. Brinkley, that the way that we've operated I t and managed I t isn't going to work going forward with the addition of greater complexity applications being broken out. Micro Service's various cloud platforms, you know, pulling out private cloud using software as a service. I see operations has a much more diverse and much more complex job ahead of them on. And it's also increasing this scale of which what they need to operate. And so new technologies, new framework for how they operate had to be deployed. There's a lot of talk come out by motel I t. But this isn't really about by motility it's about. Here's what you need to do to operate the new. And you also then need to modernize everything that you've been doing to work within those same models, >> all right. And, >> Josh, you're holding the mic so >> that our audience can't see the T shirts. So maybe just >> shut up for a second and explain that one >> s So you know, it's like one of the things that we pride ourselves on or having really interesting T shirts. And this is really just getting just having people get out of the way and let the systems work for you. >> Yeah, absolutely. But it's a good point is, you know, I team you can't be the group of no from or the blocker where the Yale will get that done, and you know, Pope to 18 months and send us a pile of money we need to be able to move fast. The theme that I hear over and over again is it's the agility and tying things to the business. And I thought that was a great point in your presentation is if you don't understand You know what the key business objectives are this quarter in this year. I'm not saying you need to be, you know, drinking the Kool Aid on everything. But if you're not aware of it, you might be running in the total wrong direction. And therefore, things change. You can't be one of those. Oh, jeez. Why am I out of a job? Oh, well, maybe I wasn't relevant to the >> business. And I think what most I T organizations feel is that they don't get respected for their work they're doing, and it's primarily in large part because they can't show the work that they're doing is tying to business value on DSO until they start making that transition on, then becoming an organization that is a driver of business initiatives in business value and customer value. They're they're they're goingto have thio reconcile some of the things that they're doing >> Okay, final thing, Josh. So are there any skill sets >> or jobs that you know? I hate to see. It's like, Oh, you know the hot thing out there. But, you know, as people kind of look at their career, especially those that have been in I t operation for a while, what are some areas that you recommend them to start with? >> Well, I think one area that to core areas I think people really needed that developing good discipline about being data driven data managed. So being able to look at data management platforms, be able to extract, ask good questions of the data and then act on that data, whether it's an automated response or developing a plan for remediation or improvement on then the other is the adoption of automation framework. Specifically, be able to have an understanding of some some type of programming language don't have to be a full on developer, but you should be able to look at work. Other people have done know how to dissect that manipulate manage. It's what you need to be able to do so that you can remove yourself from the workflow, get out of being ticket driven and allow the systems >> that work for you. >> All right. >> Sounds great, Josh. Out. Well, always a pleasure to catch up >> with you on and off >> camera. So thanks so much for joining us. All right. More coverage is always at the cube dot net on stew minimum, and thanks for watching.

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE here in Barcelona, Spain. This is KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days of wall-to-wall coverage is Corey Quinn. Joining us on the program we have two gentleman from Red Hat. To my right is Josh Berkas who's the Kubernetes community manager and sitting to his right is Dejan Bosanac who's a senior software engineer and as I said, both with Red Hat. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Well thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. So Josh, a community manager in the Kubernetes space, so what brings you here to KubeCon and maybe explain to us and give the clarification on the shirt so that we can be educated to properly call this city and residence by, how they should be. >> Oh, so many things, so. I mean obviously, I'm here because the community is here, right? A very large community. We had a contributor summit on Monday. They had a couple hundred people, three hundred people at it. The important thing, when we talk about community in Kubernetes there's the general ecosystem community and then there's the contributor community. >> Right. >> And the latter is more with what I'm concerned with. Because even the contributor community by itself is quite large. As for the t-shirt, speaking of community, so we like to actually do special t-shirts for the contributor summits. I designed this one. Despite my current career, my academic background is actually in art. This is obviously a Moreau pastiche, but one of things I actually learned by doing this was I did a different version first, It said Barca on it, and then one of the folks from here is like, "Well that's the football team." That when they abbreviate the city, it's actually Barna. >> It was news to me. I am today years old when I found that out. >> Yes. >> So thank you very much for that. >> Yes, that was an additional four hours of drawing for me. >> All right. Go ahead Corey. >> So a while back, I had a tweet that went out that I knew was going to be taken in two different ways and you were one of the first people to come back on that in the second way. Everyone first thought I was being a snarky jerk. >> Yeah. Which, let's be honest, fair. >> Yeah. >> But what I said was that in five years no one is going to care about Kubernetes. >> Right. >> And your response was yeah, that's a victory condition. If you don't have to think or care about this, >> Yeah. >> that means it won >> Right. >> in a similar way that a lot of things have slipped >> Yeah. >> beneath the level of awareness. And I'm curious as to what both of you think about the idea of Kubernetes not, I'm not saying it loses in the marketplace, I don't think that that is likely at all, but at what point do people not have to think about it any more and what does that future look like? >> Yeah, I mean one of our colleagues noticed yesterday that this conference particularly is not about Kubernetes any more. So, you hear more about all the ecosystem. A lot of projects around it. So it certainly grew up above the Kubernetes. And so you see all the talks about service meshes and things we try to do for the edge computing and things like that. So it's not just the Kubernetes any more. It's a whole ecosystem of the products and projects around it. I think, it's a big success. >> Yeah. And I mean I'll say, talking sort of a longer view is, I can remember compiling my own Linux kernels. I can remember doing it on a weekly basis. Because you honestly had to, right? If you wanted certain devices to work you had to actually compile your own kernel. Now on my various servers and stuff that I do for testing and demos and development, I can't even tell you what kernel version I'm running. Because I don't care, right? And for core Kubernetes, like I said, if we get to that point of not needing to care about it of only needing to care about it when we're developing something, then that looks like victory to me. >> Josh, is there anything in the core contributor team that they have milestones and say "Hey, by the time we get to 2.0 or 3.0, you know Kubernetes is invisible?" >> Yeah, well it's spoken of more in terms of GA and API stability >> Yeah. >> because really, if you're going to back off and you're going to say, "What is Kubernetes?" Well, Kubernetes is, what the definition of Kubernetes is, is a bag of APIs. A very large bag of APIs, we do a lot of APIs but a bag of APIs and the less those APIs change in the future the closer we're getting to maturity and stability, right? Because we want people building new stuff around the APIs, not modifying the APIs themselves. >> Yeah well, to that end, last night, here at Barcelona time, a blog post came out from AWS where they set out a formalized deprecation strategy for their EKS product to keep up with the releases of Kubernetes. Now, AWS generally does not turn things off ever, which means that 500 years from now, two trunkless legs of stone in a desert will be balanced by an ELB classic. And we're never going to be rid of anything they've ever built, but if nothing else, you've impacted them to formalize a deprecation strategy that follows upstream, which is awesome. It's great to start seeing a world where you don't have to support older versions of things as your user base and your community informs you. It's nice to see providers breaking from their model to respond to what the community has done. And I can't imagine, for you, that's anything other than an unqualified success. >> All right, so, Dejan. >> Yeah? >> When we talk about dispersion of technology, you know, there are few issues that get people as excited these days as edge computing. So, tell us a little bit about what you're doing and the community's doing in the IOTN edge space. >> Yeah. So, we noticed that more and more people want to try their workloads outside of the centralized, mon-centralized data clusters, so the big term for the last year was the hyper-cloud, but it's not just hyper-cloud. People coming also from the IOT user space wants to, you know, containerize their workloads, wants to put the processing closer and closer to the devices that they're actually producing and presuming those data in the users. And there's a lot of use cases which should be tackled in that way. And as you all said previously, like Kubernetes won developers' hearts and minds so APIs are stable, everybody's using them, it will be supported for decades so it's natural to try to bring all these tools and all these platforms that are already available to developers, try to tackle these new challenges. So that's why last year we formed Kubernetes IT edge working group, trying to, you know, start with simple questions because when people come to you and say edge, everybody thinks something different. For somebody it's an IOT gateway, for somebody it's a full blown, you know, Kubernetes cluster at some telco provider. So that's what they're trying to figure out, all these things, and try to form a community because as we saw in the previous sales for the IOT users space is that complex problems like this are never basically solved by a single company. You need open source, you need open standard, you need community around it so that people can pick and choose and build a solution to fit their needs. >> Yes, so as you said, right, there is that spectrum of offerings everything from that telco down to, you know, is this going to be something sitting on a tower somewhere or, you know, the vast proliferation of IOT which, you know, we spent lots of time. So are you looking at all of these or are you pointing "Okay, we already have a telco working group over here, and, you know, we're going to work on the IOT thing." You know, where are we? What are the answers and starting point for people today? >> Yes, so we have a single working group for now and we try to bring in to people that are interested in this topic in general. So it's, one of the guys said like "Edge is everything that's not running in the center crowd right, so, we have a couple of interesting things happening at a moment, so future way guys have a cubics project and there're presented at this conference. We have a couple of sessions on that. That's basically trying to tackle this device age kind of' space, how to, you know, put Kubernetes' workload on the constrained device and over to constrained network kind of' problem. And we have a people like coming from the rancher, which provide their own, again, resource-constrained Kubernetes deployments, and we see a lot of developments here, but it's still, I think, early age and that's why we have like a working group which is something that we can build our community and work over the time to shape things and find the appropriate reference, architectural blueprints for people that can follow in the future. >> Yeah, I think that there's been an awful lot of focus here on this show on Kubernetes, but it is KubeCon plus CloudNativeCon. I'm curious as far as what you're seeing with these conversations, something you eluded to as well is that there's now a bunch of other services that are factored in. I mean, it feels almost like this show is become, just from conversations, Kubernetes and friends; but, the level of attention that being paid to those friends is dramatically increasing. And I'm curious as to how you're seeing this evolve in the community particularly but also with customers and what you're seeing as this entire ecosystem continues to evolve. >> Yeah. Well, I mean part of it out of necessity, right, as when Kubernetes' move from Dev and experimental into production, you don't run Kubernetes by itself, right? And some of the things with Kubernetes is you can run with existing tooling, rank cloud providers, that sort of thing. But other things you discover that you want new tools. For example, one of the areas that we saw, expansion to start with, was the area of monitoring and telemetry because it turns out that monitoring telemetry that you build for a hundred servers does not work with twenty thousand pods. It's just a volume problem there. And so then we had new projects like Heapster and Prometheus and the new products from other companies like Sistic and that sort of thing, just looking at that space, right, in order to have that part of the tool because you can't be in production without monitoring and telemetry. One of my personal areas that I'm involved is storage, right, and so we've had the rook project here go from and pretty much a year and a half actually, go from being open sourced to being now a serious alternative solution if you don't want to be dependent on cloud provider storage. >> Please tell me you're giving that an award called Rookie of the Year. [laughs] >> I do not apologize for that one. One thing that does resonate with me though is the idea that you've taken, strategically, that instead of building all of this functionality into Kubernetes and turning it into, "You'll do it this way or you're going to be off in the wilderness somewhere," it's decoupled. I love that pattern. Was that always the design from day one or was this a contentious decision history? >> No, it wasn't. Kubernetes started out as kind of a monolith, right, because it was like the open source version of borg light, right, and, which was build as a monolith within Google 'cause there weren't options. They had to work with Google's stuff, right, if you're looking at borg, right, and so they're not worried about supporting all this other stuff, but from day one of Kubernetes being a project, it was a multi-company project, right, and if you look at, you know, open shift and open shift's users and open shift's stack, it's different from what Google uses for GKE. And, honestly, the easiest way to support sort of multiple stack layers is to decouple everything, right? And not how we started out, right? Cloud providers, like one of our problems cloud providers entry, storage entry, networking. Networking was the only thing that was separate from day one. You know but all this stuff was entry, and it didn't take very long for that to get unmaintainable, right? >> Well, I mean I think one of the, I've been following you and running into you in the conference circuit for years, and one of the talks I gave for a year and a half was Heresy in the Church of Docker where we don't know what your problem is but Docker, Docker, Docker, Docker, Docker, and I gave a list of twelve or thirteen different reasons and things that were not being handled by Docker. And now, I've sunset that talk largely because 1) no one talks about Docker and it feels a bit like punching down, but more importantly, Cooper Netties has largely solved almost all of those. There are still a few exceptions here and there 'cause it turns out "Sorry, nothing is perfect and we've not yet found containersation utopia. Surprise!" But it's really come a very long way in a very short period of time. >> Yeah, what a lot of it is is decoupling 'cause the thing is that you can take it two ways, right, one is that potentially as an ecosystem Kubernetes solves almost anything. Some things like IOT are, you know, a lot more alpha state than others. And then if you actually look at just core Kubernetes, it's like what you would get off the Kubernetes' Kubernetes repo if you compiled it yourself, Kubernetes solves almost nothing. Like by itself, you can't do much with it other than test your patches. >> Right, in isolation, the big problem it solves is "Room is limited to 'I want a buzz wort on my resume.'" >> Yes. >> There needs to be more to it than that. >> So, and I think that's true in general 'cause like, you know, if you look at "why did Linux become the default server OS, right?" It became the default server OS because it was adaptable, right, because you would compile in your own stuff because we define posics and kernel module API's to make it easy for people to build their own stuff without needing to commit to Lin EX Kernel. >> Alright, so I'd to get both your thoughts just on the storage piece there because, you know, 1) you know, storage is a complex, highly fragmented ecosystem out there. Red Hat has many options out there, and, boy, when I saw the key note this morning, I thought he did a really good job of laying out the options but, boy, there's, you know, it's a complex multi fragmented stack with a lot of different options out there, and edge computing, the storage industry as a whole without even Kubernetes is trying to figure out how that works, so Dejan, maybe we start with you, and yeah. >> So yeah. I don't have any particular answers for you for today in that area, but what I want, to emphasize what Josh said earlier is that these API's and these modelization that is done in Kubernetes, it's one of the big important things for edge's vow because people coming there and saying "We should do this. Should we invent things or should we just try to reuse what's a basically very good, very well designed system?" So that's a starting point, like why do we want to start using Kubernetes for the edge computing? But for the storage questions, I would hand over to Josh. >> So, your problem with storage is not anything to do with Kubernetes in particular, but the fact that, like you said, the storage sort of stack ecosystem is a mess. It's more vendor. Everything is vendor specific. Things don't work even semantically the same, let alone like the same by API. And so, all we can do in the world of Kubernetes is make enabling storage for Kubernetes not any harder than it would have been to do it in some other system. >> Right, and look, the storage industry'd say, "No no. It's not a mess. It's just that there's a prolifera of applications our there. There is not one solution to fit them all and that's why we have block, we have file, we have object, we have all these various ways of doing things, so you're saying storage is hard, but storage with Kubernetes is no harder today. We're getting to that point. >> I would say it's a little harder today. And we're working on making it not any harder. >> All right, excellent. Well, Josh and Dejan, thank you so much for the updates. >> Thank you guys. Always appreciative of the community contributions. Look forward to hearing more about the, of course, the contributors always and as the Edge and IOT groups mature. Look forward to hearing updates in the future. Thank you. >> Cool. >> Thank you guys. >> Alright, for Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman back with lots more coverage hear from KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019 in Barcelona, Spain. Thanks for watching theCube.

live from Las Vegas it's the queue covering Adobe summit 2019 brought to you by Adobe welcome back everyone live cube coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe summit 2019 I'm John fry with Jeff Frick two days of wall-to-wall coverage our next guest is Josh Van Tonder group product marketing manager to Dobby thanks for joining us thanks pleasure you're managing the marketing of the products of experienced manager within the platform great event here really the keynote we have agreed a good view good review this morning it's a great platform a lot of elements to it journey it's the Holy Grail that's super interesting and I mean I think you can see the Holy Grail you know it's it's just great actually hearing from the customers right I think it comes to life when you hear the stories they're telling kind of the solutions they're bringing a market on top of it it's it's it's very exhilarating for the product teams to see it all in action and coming to life through the customers you know we cover hundreds of events a year we hear all the stories everyone talks about innovation it's really happening here is gadot bees transform to cloud years ago so now you start to see Marketo Magento coming through the mix full platform architecture open API is open data this is the beginning of a sea change we started to seeing customers having the end-to-end experience where each functional element can do its job and connect with the data this is progressive that's great stuff it's great stuff so so where where are we what's going on with the product what's what's going on how our customers dealing with this because you got Best Buy up there forty million emails personalized yep personalization at scale yep I mean I think the the crux of what's going on is I think a lot of the organizations I mean essentially the name of the game is delivering personalized experiences right I mean how do you how do you get someone to have that moment that moment of truth where they they get to see and interact with the brand in a way that's relevant to that right I mean I think we all we all respond that way I think you know even statistics show that our own statistics show that so we've done some surveys of other consumers um it's 51 percent say I'm much more likely to buy something from a if it's personalized and 49 1% are gonna say look I'm gonna be more loyal to you because it is relevant to me which makes sense I think you and I would probably agree that if it's it's the nail on the head I want to bring up a point that the in the keynote the CEO said he said people don't buy products they buy experiences okay and this is now kind of become the the kind of the mission of all companies just seeing a big frame with direct-to-consumer yeah in all verticals not just B to B to C directly consumer so now companies can go direct to the consumer so how does that change like the ite equation because the old days were you know Bill stack and rack servers load some soft yeah sell it to a customer but now you're dealing with a user experience model that's everywhere yeah that's an interesting basis I mean a the crux of the issue is under the underneath that is it takes contents and data together to kind of deliver the great experience and at the end of the day IT is front and center as the enabler strategically for how that gets delivered I think what we've been seeing is they're they're sort of I would say four key pillars elements that that they've been using to turn their portfolio to be a strategic advantage so one is how do you manage omni-channel right I mean I guess it's getting further with your message so it's if that's essentially an omni-channel thing the other is being faster about getting to market with that message so you know maybe how does cloud play into that how does how do you enable the marketing teams and then I think the last thing and this is this is one that's been a hot topic is where does where does AI simultaneously help drive that better experience so I think those are sort of the pieces we're seeing coming into play from an IT standpoint where they they have a lot of a lot of influence to advance the overall business mission you know Jeff and I were talking about our intro about how the cloud has really in changed the game with Adobe and the customer base you know the old cloud conversation around DevOps and around the building applications work waterfall processes are gonna be dismantled by agility process based processes you started to see that now with content and creative yet we're agility and feed and data are now the new thing so a Content developer is kind of like a software developer for software you guys are providing cloud tech capabilities for content developers yeah creative developers that's right kind of metaphor there what's how do you view that how do customers react to that that's interesting I mean I think you you know usually you bring up the one side is cloud agility and the corollary to that it's just overall content velocity if you will right so I think from a cloud standpoint the the model would be you know how do i how do I get to market faster and in more geographies how to get to more geographies how do I you know support rolling out new infrastructure or new products more more quickly on the cloud infrastructure and then how do I deal with growth right how do i ami system if you look at it from the content lens which i think is what you're getting at there's a similar paradigm in terms of this agility so from an IT standpoint how do you enable someone that's on the marketing team to discover their content to reuse it more effectively and then deploy it more effectively and there are many pieces to the ité equation that fundamentally empower if you will let that velocity in terms of being able to manage discover and and frankly optimize that content as you get it out there so it's an interesting thing that I think we've been doing a lot of looking at a lot of product innovation specifically from an Adobe standpoint in terms of actually enabling that that product velocity which I mean the platform out there basically is the architecture for the platform to do that yes elements so this is just a perfect storm that's come together finally in terms of capability because we've talked about 360 view of the customer ad nauseam and and we've talked about omni-channel for many many many years but I think the execution on those was was was certainly lagging behind the vision but is it now because of the integration of the platform is it because the Big Data architectures is it because now you know it's it's it's you're reading real-time data on ingest you're not going back this normal data what is it this now and abling just actually execute on the vision that we've been talking about for years yeah I mean I think there there are multiple pieces kind of coming together that are helping so I think you know as you said I think in some sense what you're getting at is there there were historically many silos of how these things have historically been managed and what we're seeing is is a trend towards centralizing that information because ultimately you can drive more insights by looking at it and it's just you get more velocity for reusing it so you know to look at it from let's just take an example of the V omni-channel so if we look at it purely from delivering content what we as say an IOT device comes to market or you have these more advanced single page apps on the web page or an Alexa right what we saw is a rise of separate systems in some sense to manage those but now we're seeing a trend where gosh if we were to have all that content in one place if we had all the analytics behind that in one place we can more effectively personalize the customer journey across each of those and that's effectively what you're hearing a lot of today is can I have sort of a centralized but hybrid model that supports through api's getting that information to different touch points and then the data engine that will allow the personalization across each of that those touch points and that I think is the fundamentally the part that's unlocking a lot of value and is it the acceptance of the of the AI and and kind of the machine learning that's going to help you do it because you can't you can create 40 million emails with the people right you mean you have to have automation and you have to have some intelligence behind that you just can't do it manually so is that where we finally kind of broken through so that I can send 40 million different emails in one campaign with some intelligence and some logic behind who's got what yeah I think you hit the nail and I had that right I mean I think if personalization is the name of the game and you're interacting on more touch points with more pieces of contents how do you get it right for each audience and so that's where AI is it's just adds tremendous a tremendous velocity and help for businesses to get that right so I think you can think of it almost this pipeline to deliver the experience so on one hand how do you create that experience hey I can play a role how do you manage it internally hey I can play a role in terms of discovering the assets and we're using it delivering it it can play a role and actually getting the right content out there I'll give you some examples of that in a second but and then the final piece is it has you know the actual optimization of that right so to give you some examples what we've seen happening is you can literally use the AI the the data on interactions of how people interacting across your system and actually create interfaces on-the-fly for specific segments of audiences right so instead of say I as a marketer creating that interface you know using web development or tooling why not have the system actually recompose what is being served up you know maybe a certain layout with multiple columns works for some audiences maybe it just needs to be one banner with a certain type of image a I can actually do that for you by looking at the analytics of you know how do you react to certain things versus me and drawing corollaries so there's a lot of police places along that chain where AI is the impact is productivity obviously because you know the right to queries or figure out what's come in that's presented to you that's good that's kind of the impact of the marketer right it's about yeah it's about scaling the market or right I mean I think that's one of the big challenges from a business standpoint is you know your team's never big enough to serve every person every single customer as a marketer so that's where a I essentially unlocks that that scale it gives you a marketing team of thousands where you may only have a team of a hundred or twenty depending on the size of the order to tune that up in terms of a customer I've got an Adobe I'm Adobe customer I go the Adobe cloud experience cloud how do I tune this up I mean is there a way that you guys have figured out that allows them to kind of get it up and running fast without a lot of complexity yeah that's like that's a good question it's I mean that's actually it's really critical because that from a marketing standpoint you know IT can bring to bear a number of different technologies but unless they're easy to adopt you're not gonna go anywhere so I think the trick is almost giving marketers the easy button so I think that's that's where a lot of the magic and AI happens is you pick one specific problem you know in Adobe's case we pick a problem where we know we have a lot of intelligence about creative assets and we have visibility and how those are being used so if we bring those together we can solve specific problems about discovering content or how we deliver that optimally but the wit to answer your specific question it's almost as though we try to give an easy button for the marketer right so I feed you a bunch of say audience segments and then I plug you into my my analytics data press a button and I ideally it's gonna just figure it out for me write it and and then test if it works that's the key thing is once you get in a market test it right and and it can do that for you and I don't think there's enough you know kind of highlight on that where you know those dramatic before to do a/b testing now you can test everything you know at such scale it's such detail into your point you think you know your segments and you can create your own segments but you can actually let the Machine create segments based on actual behavior of people which I guess really is enabled by most you know so many of your interactions now with brands is digital so give you that opportunity to grab a piece of that exhaust do the analytics and get some insight out of it yeah that's exactly right I mean I you know data the scale of data I mean everybody's flooded with data right now but it's really where's the needle in the haystack and I think that's that's where AI plays a crucial role I mean it it can do things like figure out anomalies on on your interactions across a large swath of users right if something something you see in the data is it's statistically normal or not and should I pay attention to it and what should i do from it so AI starts to play a role in that it can even do simple things like we all have mobile phones we all want to watch more video on mobile phones the problem is as a business as a marketing team and and I'm sure even you know you folks have the same situation is the content that you create may not be ready to be consumed appropriately on each device right so if I pick up my mol device has it been optimized properly so you can do things like have a I pick the focal points in a video and crop out the rest and follow the focal point and only show that on the phone so well certainly gonna call you up because we have a lot of video we don't have twenty videos here today so a lot of luck but this is the norm people gonna have more velocity of videos that's that's podcasts yep blog posts so the waterfalls I was getting earlier this waterfall thing is over it's more of an agile environment so I got to ask the customer question is that reality yet grounded in the customer base or is it still early adopters or I guess the question is what's the pattern that you're seeing in customers Bart what makes a good market or what makes a good organization to embrace the kind of change that's on our doorstep right now it's a good that's a good question and it I think it takes two to tango I think there's a an IT elements and a marketing elements and I think we're seeing an evolution and how how the two work together in this new model so from an IT standpoint they are the enabler for example to get content onto multiple multiple different channels from a from our marketers standpoint they ultimately are the ones that define and help articulate the right message and type of content if IT and marketers are working well together the more the the IT team is going to enable that market or T marketing team to essentially iterate quickly in content so there's a whole set of things that can be done to enable the marketing team to be agile and getting that content out there so I think you know the evolution I would say is is in in how the two teams are working so I think your waterfall model and past I'd say it's entirely gone but it has been reframed in a ways exploring it that's a good way to test to see if if IT and CM a CIO and the CMO working together yeah probably aligned to four change right they're not maybe not it's so I mean I'll give you a very specific example so one thing that we've been seeing in our world is so for example on cloud you know there's a lot of things you can do more quickly traditionally there have been some waterfall development models what we've seen is IT now has a DevOps process where they're very fast and rolling out application updates but if you can actually standardize that if you can create a pipeline for Creek getting code onto the onto the different environments if you test it and roll it out faster what that means for marketing and business is the time to market goes down so for example we've actually been baking that into our products can we literally here's a best-in-class pipeline for doing an agile development model it's already pre-built into the the infrastructure to enable IT to kind of go faster on the behalf of so here's a question for you put you on the spot sure in all the stores major shifts is always gaps there's always gaps in new markets or white spaces so there's three areas technology gaps skills gaps and culture gaps yep can you talk about what you see as the key gaps that people are starting to get over on figure out how to fill those gaps because they can become direct walkers if they're not resolved so tech gap skills gap and culture gap so just because we talking tech a lot let's reverse it and talk you know sort of the the team and organization elements I mean you think one thing that we've we've definitely been seeing is is if you will the the alignment of what was traditionally a channel management is now moving more closely into the CDO or CMO arm which I think is a good thing right I think what we see as some of our leading customers is the marketing and and chief digital officer x' have increasingly more alignment and a seat at the table of how the individual channel line of businesses are operating and that's a very good thing because it does help close the loop on the customer journey across those channels which I think it's traditionally been a bit of a dilemma so I would say that's one thing we're seeing much more is that the channels the channel management actually going under directly or more alignment with the marketing arm or something like a CDO so on the org side that's one area and that helps with the velocity right and they're rearranging the org structures to align with how does content me to be shared across these teams do you really own that channel is it is it do we do we have a customer journey that is owned across all channels right and I think that's an important conversation that these companies have been struggling with in our and I've evolved a lot in the last few years and we talked about the tech gap already but skills gap what skills are out there that are needed obviously day the machine learning yeah a big one date the machine learning stuff I mean I think Adobe's fuel horse on the races I think we're trying to democratize some of that so as I said earlier the hope is for the marketing team we we give them a neat easy path to to unlock that there are areas where there's been big growth like so for example the front and frameworks and development for single page applications that's an area from an IT standpoint where we've seen a tremendous growth in that technology set and and how that plays a role with the rest of the infrastructure yeah and and and simply how does that actually align with the traditional tools they've been using for managing their websites I think what we've seen is that they're now skill wise and technology wise actually taking of you that you you still have one centralized platform but ultimately you'll have IT developer resources that plug in to say one central hybrid content management system for example any new personas popping out of this just shift that's going on with cloud and and creativity experience cloud any new roles that are emerging that you see popping out yeah I mean I so I mean one example we've seen and it's it's it's been an evolution but you know for example we've seen the rise of something called journey managers right which just goes back to what I was mentioning earlier which are our people that their business and tack align but they're interested in understanding how does a customer actually move across a specific journey so they're mapped to if you will a task a customer's trying to do and how do i optimize that you know assuming and knowing that you know if Josh is going to try and get some customer support he's not just always going to call the support line he's going to try other things and how do I simplify that for him and taking a very holistic view so I think that's that's one thing we've seen more of and it's it's a you know a great way to approach it fascinating insights Josh thanks for coming on I'll give you the final word I put a plug in for what you're working on experience manager what's new what's happening yeah absolutely so we're I'm part of the experience manager team so we're part of the organization that that helps our brands deliver and manage digital experiences so essentially we're enabling if you will omni channel delivery and management of those experiences and a key thrusts for us are around enabling IT to get content effectively across channels and also experience intelligence how do we how do we deliver AI and machine learning innovation to make the marketers job easier for getting personalized experiences to market and enabling IT to support them more efficiently so there's a number of innovations and exciting things that we're very excited about it someone for the congratulations Josh van Tonder group product marketing manager at adobe experience manager his product breaking down what's going on here at Adobe summit and in the industry I'm Jennifer Jeff rick stay with us for more coverage here at adobe summit after this short break

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusetts it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to our Boston area studio. I'm happy to welcome back to the program a multi-time guest, Josh Rogers, who's the CEO of Syncsort. Josh, great to see ya. >> Great to see you. Thanks for having me. >> Alright so, Syncsort is a company that I would say is, you guys are deep in the data ocean. Data is at the center of everything. When Wikibon, when we did our predictions everything whether you're talking about cloud, whether you're talking about infrastructure, of course everything like IoT and Edge, it is at the center of it. I want you to help start off is there's this term, big iron, big data. Help explain to us what that is and what that means to both Syncsort and your customers. >> Sure yeah, so we like to talk about Syncsort as the leader in big iron to big data and it's a it's a positioning that we've chosen for the firm because we think it represents the value proposition that we bring to our customers but we also think it represents a collection of use cases that are really at the top of the agenda of CIOs today. And really we talk about it in two areas. The first is a recognition that large enterprises still run mission critical workloads on systems that they've built over the last 20, 30, 40 years. Those systems leverage mainframe computing, they leveraging IBM i or AS400 and they spent trillions of dollars building those systems and they still deliver core workloads that power their businesses. So mission number one is that these firms want to make sure that they optimize those environments. They run them as efficiently as possible. They can't go down. They've got the proper security kind of protocols around them and of course that situation's always changing as workloads grow and change on these environments. So first is how do I optimize the systems that while they may be mature, they are still mission critical. The second is a recognition that most of the critical data assets for our customers are created in these systems. These are the systems that execute the transactions and as a result have core information around the results of the firm, the firm's customers, et cetera. So second value proposition is how do I maximize the value of that data that gets produced in those systems which tends to be a focus on liberating it, making a copy of it and moving it into next generation analytic systems. And then you look at the technical requirements of that it turns out that it's hard. I'm taking data from systems that were created 50 years ago and I'm integrating it with systems that were created five years ago. And so we've got a special set of expertise and solutions that allow customers to both optimize these old systems and maximize the value data produced in those systems. >> You bring up some really good points. I've been talking the last couple of years to people about how do I really wrap my arms around my data and we're talking about a multi-cloud world and where we have pockets of information trapped. That's a challenge. So it's not just about my data center and Amazon. It's like oh wait, I've got all these SaaS deployments and I think it's probably, it's a blind spot that I had had as to sure, right, you've got companies that have let's call them legacy systems, ones that they've got a lot investment but these are mission critical, these are the ones that it is not easy to modernize them but if I can get access to the data and put this into these next generation systems it sounds like you kind of free that data and allow that to be leveraged much easier. >> That's right, that's right and we, what we try to do is focus on what are the next generation trends in data and how are they going to intersect with these older systems. And so that started as big data but it includes cloud and the multi-cloud. It includes real-time and IoT. It includes thing like Blockchain. We're really scanning the horizon for what are these kind of generational shifts in terms of how am I going to leverage data and how do we get really tight on the use cases that our customers are gonna need. So I'll integrate those new technologies with these old investments. >> Josh, I'd love to hear what you're seeing from customers. So we've talked to you at some of the big data shows. I know we've spoken to you at the Splunk shows. I felt like what we as an industry got bogged down in some of the tools for a couple of years. While Wikibon, we did the first market forecast on big data everybody was like oh, Hadoop Hadoop Hadoop and we're like well, Hadoop will catalyze a lot of things and companies will rod a lot of things but Hadoop itself will be a small piece of the market and we've started to see some consolidation in that market. So data and the value that I get out of the data is the important thing. So what are your customers focused on? How do they get from their traditional data warehouses to a more modern? What are the challenges that they're dealing with and where are you engaging with them? >> Right, sure. So I mean one of the challenges they do have is this explosion of kind of options. Am I doing things in Hadoop? What is Hadoop at this point? Which projects actually constitute Hadoop? So what repository I'm gonna use. Am I gonna use Hive? Am I gonna use something, am I gonna use MongoDB, Elastic? What are, what's the repository I'm targeting? Generally what we see is that each of those has, and a long list of additional repositories, has a role to play for the specific use case. And then how am I going to get the data there and integrate it and then get the data out and deliver insights? And that stack of technologies and tools is pretty intimidating. And so we see customers starting to coalesce around some market leaders in that space. The merger of Hortonworks and Cloudera I think was a very good thing for the industry. It just simplifies the life of the customer in terms of making decisions in confidence in that stack. It certainly simplifies our life as a partner of those firms and I think it will help accelerate maturity in that tech stack. And so I think we're starting to see pockets of maturation which I think will accelerate customers' investments in leveraging these next generation technologies. That then creates a big opportunity for us because now it's becoming real. Now I really have to get on a real-time basis my data out of my mainframe or my IBM i system into these next generation repositories and it turns out that's technically a challenge and so what we're seeing in our businesses real acceleration of our big data solutions against what I would say production-targeted workloads and projects, which is great. >> Alright, M&A, you got a always really active in this space. We've done ThinkSort for many years so we've watched some of the changes along the way. I believe you've got some news to share regarding M&A activity and there's also some recent stuff to tap in the last year. Maybe bring us up to speed. >> Sure so we've made two announcements. We made an announcement in the last few weeks and then one very recently that I'd like to share. The first is about two months ago we struck up a developmental relationship with IBM around their B2B collaboration portfolio and this product set really gives us exposure to integration styles between businesses. Historically we've been focused on integration within a business and so we really like the exposure to that. More importantly, it intersects with one of these next generational data themes around Blockchain and we believe there's a huge opportunity to help be a leader and how do you take Blockchain infrastructure and integrate it to these existing systems. So we're really excited to partner with IBM on that front. And IBM obviously is making huge investments there. >> Before we got, what's Syncsort's play there when it comes to Blockchain? We have definitely talked to IBM quite a bit about Blockchain, Hyperledger, everything going into there. So maybe give a little more color there. >> Sure, so look, we still think that production workloads on Blockchain are a few years out and we see a lot of pilot activity. So I think people are still trying to understand the specific use cases they're gonna deliver real value. But one thing is for certain, that as customers start to stand up production workloads on the Blockchain they're going to need to integrate what's happening in that new infrastructure with these traditional systems that are still managing the large majority of their transactions. And how do I add data to the Blockchain? How do I verify data on the Blockchain? How do I improve the quality of data on the Blockchain? How do I pull data off of the Blockchain? We think there's a really important role for us to play around understanding the specifics of those use cases, how they intersect with some of these legacy systems and how we provide tailored solutions that are best in class. And it's one of the reasons, it's one of the primary reasons we've struck up the relationship with IBM but also joined Hyperledger. So hopefully that gives you a little bit more context. >> That's great. >> The more recent announcement I want to make is that we've acquired a company called Eview and Eview is a terrific leader in the machine data integration space. They have a number of solutions that are complementary to what we've done with our iron string product and what we're trying to do there is support as many use cases as possible for people to maximize the value of that they can get out of machine data, particularly as it relates to older systems like mainframe and IBM i. And what this acquisition does is it allows us to take another step forward in terms of the value proposition that we offer our customers. One specific use case where Eview's been a leader that we're very excited about is integration with ServiceNow. And you can think of ServiceNow as kind of a next generation platform that we to date have not had integration with. This acquisition gives us that integration. It also gives us a set of technology and talent that we can put towards accelerating our overall big data plans. And so we're really excited about having the Evue team join the Syncsort family and what we can deliver for customers. >> Yeah great great. Absolutely, companies like ServiceNow and Workday, huge amounts of data there, are seeing a lot of it. Dave Alonte's been at the ServiceNow knowledge show with theCUBE for a number of years. Really interesting. Seems like this acquisition ties well in with I believe it was Vision that a year ago? >> Well so it ties in mostly with our iron string product. >> Okay. >> Now Vision contributed to the iron string product in that that gave us the expertise to deliver integration for IBM i log data into next generation analytic platforms like Splunk and Elastic. So we had built a product that was focused on delivering mainframe data in real-time to those platforms. Vision gave us both real-time capability and a huge franchise in the IBM i space. Eview builds on that and gives us additional capability in terms of delivering data to new repositories like ServiceNow. >> Great, maybe step back for a second. Give us kind of some of the speeds and feeds of Syncsort itself. Memento the company, you've been CEO for a while now. Tell us how we're doing. >> Yeah, we're doing well. We're having a record year. It's important to actually recognize that in September we celebrated our 50th anniversary. So I think we're a bit unusual in terms of our heritage. Having said that, we've never driven more innovation than we have over the last 12 months. We have tripled the size of the business over the last three years since I've been CEO. We've quadrupled the employee base. And we will continue to see I think rapid growth given the opportunity we set and we see in this big iron to big data space. >> Yeah, Josh, you talk about that. When I look at okay, a 50-year-old company. We talked about data quite a bit differently 50 years ago. What is the digital transformation today? What does that mean for Syncsort? What does that mean for your customers? Help put us in context. >> Yeah, I mean, it kind of goes back to this original positioning which is, the largest banks int he world, the largest telecommunications vendors in the world, healthcare, government, you pick the industry, they built a set of systems that they still run today over the last four or five decades. Those systems tend to produce the most important data of that enterprise, not the only data you want to analyze, but it tends to be that reference data that makes everything else, allows you to make sense of everything else. And as you think about how am I gonna analyze that data, how am I gonna maximize the value of that data there is a need to integrate the data and move it off of those platforms and into these next generation platforms. And if you look at the way a vSAN file was designed for computing requirements in 1970 it turns out it's really different than the way that you would design a file type JSON or a file for Impala. And so kind of knitting that together takes a lot of deep expertise on both sides of the equation and we uniquely have that expertise and are solving that. And what we've seen is as new technologies continue to come to market, which we refer to as the next wave, that our enterprise customer base of 7,000 customers needs a partner that can say how do I take advantage of that new technology trend in the context of the past 30, 40, 50 years of investment I've made in mission critical systems and how do I support the key integration use cases? And that's what we've determined where we can make a difference in the market is focusing on what are those use cases and how do we deliver differentiate solutions to solve 'em that help both our customers and these partners. >> Absolutely, it's always great to talk about some of the new stuff but you need to meet the customers where they are, get to that data where it is and help move it forward. Alright, Josh, why don't you give it the final words? Kind of broadly open. Big challenges, opportunities, what's exciting you as you look forward kind of the next six months? >> Yeah, so we'll continue to make investments in cloud, in data governance, in supporting real-time data streaming and in security. Those are the areas that we'll be focused on driving innovation and delivering additional capability to our customers. Some of that will come through taking technologies like Eview or like the B2B products and enhancing them for specific use cases where they intersect those things. It will also be additional investments from an acquisition perspective in those domains and you can count on Syncsort to continue to expand the value proposition that it is delivering to its customers both through new technology introductions but also through additional integration with these next generation platforms. So we're really excited I mean, we believe our strategy is working. It's led to record results in our 50th year and we think we've got many years to run with this strategy. >> Alright well Josh Rogers, CEO of Syncsort. Congratulations on the progress. New acquisition, deeper partnership with IBM and I look forward to tracking the updates. >> Thanks so much. Appreciate the opportunity. >> Alright, and thank you as always for joining. I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from New York, it's theCUBE, covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We're here live in New York City for CUBE NYC. This is our ninth year covering the big data ecosystem, now it's AI, machine-learning, used to be Hadoop, now it's growing, ninth year covering theCUBE here in New York City. I'm John Furrier, with Dave Vellante. Our next guest, Josh Rogers, CEO of Syncsort. I'm going back, long history in theCUBE. You guys have been on every year. Really appreciate chatting with you. Been fun to watch the evolution of Syncsort and also get the insight. Thanks for coming on, appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me. It's great to see you. >> So you guys have constantly been on this wave, and it's been fun to watch. You guys had a lot of IP in your company, and then just watching you guys kind of surf the big data wave, but also make some good decisions, made some good calls. You're always out front. You guys are on the right parts of the wave. I mean now it's cloud, you guys are doing some things. Give us a quick update. You guys got a brand refresh, so you got the new logo goin' on there. Give us a quick update on Syncsort. You got some news, you got the brand refresh. Give us a quick update. >> Sure. I'll start with the brand refresh. We refreshed the brand, and you see that in the web properties and in the messaging that we use in all of our communications. And, we did that because the value proposition of the portfolio had expanded so much, and we had gained so much more insight into some of the key use cases that we're helping customers solve that we really felt we had to do a better job of telling our story and, probably most importantly, engage with the more senior level within these organizations. What we've seen is that when you think about the largest enterprises in the world, we offer a series of solutions around two fundamental value propositions that tend to be top of mind for these executives. The first is how do I take the 20, 30, 40 years of investment in infrastructure and run that as efficiently as possible. You know, I can't make any compromises on the availability of that. I certainly have to improve my governance and secureability of that environment. But, fundamentally, I need to make sure I could run those mission-critical workloads, but I need to also save some money along the way, because what I really want to do is be a data-driven enterprise. What I really want to do is take advantage of the data that gets produced in these transactional applications that run on my AS400 or IBM I-infra environment, my mainframe environment, even in my traditional data warehouse, and make sure that I'm getting the most out of that data by analyzing it in a next-generation set of-- >> I mean one of the trends I want to get your thoughts on, Josh, cause you're kind of talking through the big, meagatrend which is infrastructure agnostic from an application standpoint. So the that's the trend with dev ops, and you guys have certainly had diverse solutions across your portfolio, but, at the end of the day, this is the abstraction layer customers want. They want to run workloads on environments that they know are in production, that work well with applications, so they almost want to view the infrastructure, or cloud, if you will, same thing, as just agnostic, but let the programmability take care of itself, under the hood, if you will. >> Right, and what we see is that people are absolutely kind of into extending and modernizing existing applications. This is in the large enterprise, and those applications and core components will still run on mainframe environments. And so, what we see in terms of use cases is how do we help customers understand how to monitor that, the performance of those applications. If I have a tier that's sitting on the cloud, but it's transacting with the mainframe behind the firewall, how do I get an end-to-end view of application performance? How do I take the data that ultimately gets logged in a DB2 database on the mainframe and make that available in a next-generation repository, like Hadoop, so that I can do advanced analytics? When you think about solving both the optimization and the integration challenge there, you need a lot of expertise in both sides, the old and the new, and I think that's what we uniquely offer. >> You guys done a good job with integration. I want to ask quick question on the integration piece. Is this becoming more and more table stakes, but also challenging at the same time? Integration and connecting systems together, if their stateless, is no problem, you use APIs, right, and do that, but as you start to get data that needs state information, you start to think to think about some of the challenges around different, disparate systems being distributed, but networked, in some cases, even decentralized, so distributed networking is being radically changed by the data decisions on the architecture, but also integration, call it API 2.0 or this new way to connect and integrate. >> Yeah, so what we've tried to focus on is kind of solving that piece between these older applications that run these legacy platforms and making them available to whatever the consumer is. Today, we see Kafka and in Amazon we see Kinesis as kind of key buses delivering data as a service, and so the role that we see ourselves playing and what we announced this week is an ability to track changed data, deliver it in realtime in these older systems, but deliver it to these new targets: Kafka, Kinesis, and whatever comes next. Because really that's the fundamental partner we're trying to be to our customers is we will help you solve the integration challenge between this infrastructure you've been building for 30 years and this next-generation technology that lets you get the next leg of value out of your data. >> So Jim, when you think about the evolution of this whole big data space, the early narrative in the trade press was, well, NoSQL is going to replace Oracle and DB2, and the data lake is going to replace the EDW, and unstructured data is all that matters, and so forth. And now, you look at what's really happened is the EDW is a fundamental component of making decisions and insights, and SQL is the killer app for Hadoop. And I take an example of say fraud detection, and when you think and this is where you guys sit in the middle from the standpoint of data quality, data integration, in order to do what we've done in the past 10 years take fraud detection down from well, I look at my statement a month or two later and then call the credit card company, it's now gone to a text that's instantaneous. Still some false positives, and I'm sure working on that even. So maybe you could describe that use case or any other, your favorite use case, and what your role is there in terms of taking those different data sources, integrating them, improving the data quality. >> So, I think when you think about a use case where I'm trying to improve the SLA or the responsiveness of how do manage against or detect fraud, rather than trying to detect it on a daily basis, I'm trying to detect it at transaction time. The reality is you want to leverage the existing infrastructure you have. So if you have a data warehouse that has detailed information about transaction history, maybe that's a good source. If you have an application that's running on the mainframe that's doing those transaction realtime, the ultimate answer is how do I knit together the existing infrastructure I have and embed the additional intelligence and capability I need from these new capabilities, like, for example, using Kafka, to deliver a complete solution. What we do is we help customers kind of tie that together, Specifically, we announced this integration I mentioned earlier where we can take a changed data element in a DB2 database and publish it into Kafka. That is a key requirement in delivering this real-time fraud detection if I in fact am running transactions on a mainframe, which most of the banks are. >> Without ripping and replacing >> Why would you want to rip out an application >> You don't. >> your core customer file when you can just extend it. >> And you mentioned the Cloudera 6 certification. You guys have been early on there. Maybe talk a little about that relationship, the engineering work that has to get done for you to be able to get into the press release day one. >> We just mentioned that my first time on theCUBE was in 2013, and that was on the back of our initial product release in the big data world. When we brought the initial DMX-h release to market, we knew that we needed to have deep partnerships with Cloudera and the key platform providers. I went and saw Mike Olson, I introduced myself, he was gracious enough to give me an hour, and explain what we thought we could do to help them develop more value proposition around their platform, and it's been a terrific relationship. Our architecture and our engineering and product management relationship is such that it allows us to very rapidly certify and work on their new releases, usually within a couple a days. Not only can customers take advantage of that, which is pretty unique in the industry, but we get some some visibility from Cloudera as evidenced by Tendu's quote in the press release that was released this week, which is terrific. >> Talk about your business a little bit. You guys are like a 50-year old startup. You've had this really interesting history. I remember you from when I first started in the industry following you guys. You've restructured the company, you've done some spin outs, you've done some M and A, but it seems to be working. Talk about growth and progress that you're making. >> We're the leader in the Big Iron to Big Data market. We define that as allowing customers to optimize their traditional legacy investments for cost and performance, and then we help them maximize the value of the data that get generated in those environments by integrating it with next-generation analytic environments. To do that, we need a broad set of capability. There's a lot of different ways to optimize existing infrastructure. One is capacity management, so we made an acquisition about a year ago in the capacity management space. We're allowing customers to figure out how do I make sure I've got not too much and not too little capacity. That's an example of optimization. Another area of capability is data quality. If I'm maximize the value of the data that gets produced in these older environments, it would be great that when it lands in these next-generation repositories it's as high quality as possible. We acquired Trillium about a year ago, or actually coming up >> How's that comin'? >> on two years ago and we think that's a great capability for our customers It's going terrific. We took their core data quality engine, and now it runs natively on a distributed Hadoop infrastructure. We have customers leveraging it to deliver unprecedented volume of matching, so not only breakthrough performance, but this whole notion of write once, run anywhere. I can run it on an SMP environment. I can run it on Hadoop. I can run it Hadoop in the cloud. We've seen terrific growth in that business based on our continued innovation, particularly pointing it at the big data space. >> One of the things that I'm impressed with you guys is you guys have transformed, so having a transformation message to your customers is you have a lot of credibility, but what's interesting is is that the world with containers and Kubernetes now and multi-cloud, you're seeing that you don't have to kill the legacy to bring in the new stuff. You can see you can connect systems, when you guys have done with legacy systems, look at connect the data. You don't have to kill that to bring in the new. >> Right >> You can do cloud-native, you can do some really cool things. >> Right. I think there's-- >> This rip and replace concept is kind of going away. You put containers around it too. That helps. >> Right. It's expensive and it's risky, so why do that. I think that's the realization. The reality is that when people build these mission-critical systems, they stay in place for not five years, but 25 years. The question is how do you allow the customers to leverage what they have and the investment they've made, but take advantage of the next wave, and that's what we're singularly focused on, and I think we're doing a great job of that, not just for customers, but also for these next-generation partners, which has been a lot of fun for us. >> And we also heard people doing analytics they want to have their own multi-tenent, isolated environments, which goes to don't screw this system up, if it's doing a great job on a mission-critical thing, don't bundle it, just connect it to the network, and you're good. >> And on the cloud side, we're continuing to look at our portfolio and say what capabilities will customers want to consume in a cloud-delivery model. We've been doing that in the data quality space for quite awhile. We just launched and announced over the last about three months ago capacity management as a service. You'll continue to see, both on the optimization side and on the integration side, us continuing to deliver new ways for customers to consume the capabilities they need. >> That's a key thing for you guys, integration. That's pretty much how you guys put the stake in the ground and engineer your activities around integration. >> Yeah, we start with the premise that your going to need to continue to run this older investments that you made, and you're going to need to integrate the new stuff with that. >> What's next? What's goin' on the rest of the year with you guys? >> We'll continue to invest heavily in the realtime and changed-data capture space. We think that's really interesting. We're seeing a tremendous amount of demand there. We've made a series of acquisitions in the security space. We believe that the ability to secure data in the core systems and its journey to the next-generation systems is absolutely critical, so we'll continue to invest there. And then, I'd say governance, that's an area that we think is incredibly important as people start to really take advantage of these data lakes they're building, they have to establish real governance capabilities around those. We believe we have an important role to play there. And there's other adjacencies, but those are probably the big areas we're investing in right now. >> Just continuing to move the ball down the field in the Syncsort cadence of acquisitions, organic development. Congratulations. Josh, thanks for comin' on. To John Rogers, CEO of Syncsort, here inside theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more big data coverage, AI coverage, cloud coverage here. Part of CUBE NYC, we're in New York City live. We'll be right back after this short break. Stay with us. (techno music)

>> Live, from Washington, DC it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you buy Amazon Web Services and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're live here in Washington, DC with theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. It's a huge show, it's like the reinvent for public sector and it's really booming. Our theCUBE allumnis on Josh Stella, CEO of Fugue. And Peter O'Donoghue, Vice President of Service Application Services at Unisys. You guys are back for the third time. We first interviewed you guys last year here in that reinvent, as well. Good to you back, thanks for joining us again. >> Thanks for having us back on. >> Thanks yeah, great. >> I love to connect the dots. It's almost like the trajectory. And we were talking yesterday about Cloud and how Amazon and other Cloud players, and Stew brought up a term called having experience. And then we were talking about this economies scale. This is really where people who have done it over time, have got their requisite, experience, scar tissue, and learnings. Some jump to try to deliver everything at once. You guys have been together for a while working together. What's the update on the trajectory as you guys go Cloud first? What's the status, what's goin' on? >> You guys made an announcement this week right? >> Sure, yeah, yeah. So, yeah we at Unisys are super excited to announce our new Cloud offering called Cloud Forte. And your point about takin' the lessons from experience and really embedding those into a capability, that's really what Cloud Forte is about. I think, ya know, at a very high level Cloud Forte it's got two major kind of sets of capabilities. One is like subscription services, which is around management and governance of AWS. And actually we've designed it to solve like really tricky problems, that our public sector and frankly our commercial clients are really struggling with. And the second set of services are really professional services, that allow for any need to facilitate and catalyze adoption at scale. And actually they go head on addressing some of the trickiest problems in that space, as well. >> Well, take a minute and just explain, what does the product do? What's the value proposition of this new service? >> Okay. Well, at the management and governance tier, let me tell you what the problems that it solves. I can go into all the minutiae, but I think we could be here a while right? It solves some big problems. Problem one that it solves is, commercially, public sector, and actually federal wise organizations have a tough time managing the finances of AWS Cloud consumption. Actually having the transparency and visibility, and being able to comply with the Antideficiency Act, being able to manage funding, and also being able to tie it back to contracts and contract line owners sounds trivial enough, but it's really a thorn in the side of a lot of folks really trnna adopt Cloud. I would say the second element is what we're calling our command bundle. And the command bundle really kind of, it deliberately kind of solves the... It feels the gap of the shared responsibility model. I think we all here are deeply aware of what that means. But, that's really kind of the air gap, if you will, between while AWS it supports out of the box, and quite frankly what customers need to support. So, things like, classic things like service catalog management, patch management, back up and recovery, IT operations, incident management, asset management. All those things. We've built and we've constructed basically in a flexible framework. A light weight framework that allows folks to do, to go fast. But also has that enterprise level of governance that people people expect to see from the cloud. One of the key elements of our command bundle is what Josh's organization provides, is the Fugue policy engine. So, we find that in order to provide Cloud, it's really important to be able to have those guardrails. To provide basically a nanny like supervisor to make sure that what's deployed is compliant. And actually what's deployed and what's running in production, stays compliant with security policy. So, that's really what command is all about. >> Josh, how about what's under the hood? We've had a lot of conversation on policy and automation. It's third year in on our conversations. What's going on under the hood, what's happening with the things that you guys are doing with Unisys? >> Yeah, so when we last talked they hadn't announced this yet, so we couldn't quite explain what we're working on together. But, we're working with Unisys and other organizations to provide that full automation of the entire infrastructure layer. And it's just fire and forget infrastructure on Cloud. So, one of the things we're seeing consistently is people are really starting to struggle. The markets really maturing around the need to fully automate remediation of problems, detection and remediation. Where the old model of use a monitoring solution, throws a ticket over the wall, search for the pilot tickets. You might have hours, days, weeks, where you're exposed and your data leaks. And Fugue fixes that in under a minute. So, that's what we've been workin' on together and we love the partnership because Unisys has experience in the engagement on the federal side of the market. And Fugue is baked in to just provide all that goodness. >> What's the impact of that? Because you compared kind of the old way to the new way you guys are doing. Just kind of give some categorical or anecdotal color behind what the impact is from that. What does it do, save people's lives, saves time, money. What's the impact? >> Yeah, I'll tell ya the impact and I'll describe a use case. So, we're working with another customer and they came to us and said, in our hosted environments on AWS we have over 500 events a day, where configuration has drifted. And every one of those we have to investigate. We have to come up with a plan. Then we have to execute the plan. Then we have to write a report on how it will never happen again, 500 a day. So, with Fugue, every one of those just is automatically fixed and reported within about 30 seconds to a minute. So, the impact of this is a team of three completely overwhelmed folks, who were looking to hire 10 people to try to, as their Cloud presence group, they just had to staff a larger and larger Cloud services desk. Actually the three people that they have are now on to doing other work. Because it's just automated. >> So, Peter help connect the dots for us, for your customers on the federal side because we know there's been push back. Sometimes customer, oh automation sounds great, but ah wait, on the government side I've got regulations, I've got processes, I've got hurdles that we might need to do. So, how do we get beyond those? >> Well, I think that's a great question. I would say that, so as I was talking about the Cloud Forte offering that, there's a set of offerings in the professional services domain too. We actually have our accelerated bundle, right? And actually one of the things that we, we really believe as important as folks to adopt Cloud is, in order to leverage Cloud most effectively, you really need a mind shift. So, we have like two of the legs of our offerings went around the order of chain management. And kind of making that major transformation for human capital. And actually what really good looks like is folks who actually think Cloud natively, right? So, we find the most successful clients are folks who've kind of made that leap. The other kind of dimension is is around process and process change. And we see ITIL has been super affective and has been kind of a stone wall of enterprise IT for a long time. But, we see that as folks move to the Cloud one of the strong recommendations we make and we have process offerings, is how do we renew... My management in governance process is to actually embrace more DevOps thinking, embrace more of everything as code thinking, including policy. Because what we find is, as I think you're hinting at right, is as folks move to the Cloud you can kind of have like almost a goldilocks scenario. Where, like on one hand I've taken the really heavy weight processes and tools from my data center into my thinking, and I've got now kind of a Porsche 911, but I've put donut wheels on it and I can't move very quickly, and I'm kind of frustrated with it, right? On the other extreme, I've got like the SharePoint era of 2005, 2006 where it is the wild west. It's pandemonium, and God only knows what's goin' on right there. So, what we're trynna do is is really looking for effective enterprise and having transparent governance, making sure that the great lessons learned of before are there. But, we have like a light weight extensible frame work that we have the nanny guardrails on it, so we can understand where this policy drifts. >> And the beauty of this is ya know the APIs giveth and the APIs taketh away. The APIs are why we can go so fast, but it's also why it's really easy to hurt yourself. That's what Fugue is there for. We let you go just as fast, and when can show that all those processes, like in ITIL having a CMDB, that's a side affect of running Fugue. You can query Fugue and you've got your configuration data. >> How you made them go fast, I get that. But how do you protect from breaking, what's the other half? >> Yeah, sure, so the Fugue approach, and Unisys are doing some other things on top of this. But, the Fugue approach is you cannot deploy something unless it is both correct and meets policy and compliance. >> That's the guardrails you're talking about. >> That's the guardrails. And unlike anything else, Fugue tells you exactly how you got it wrong, why, and how to fix it. So, it's not just a big no, at the end of the process. It's hey, on 147 you're not allowed to have unencrypted volumes so change that. Then once the infrastructure is provision, so it must be correct up front, once it's provisioned Fugue will never let it drift again. Again, within 30 seconds to a minute we've seen it needs changed, and we've fixed it. And what that means is... >> Intelligence. >> It is. >> You bring intelligence do it, ya fix it, again this the, this is why I love the automation whole Cloud thing. The non believers don't understand the value of this. I call them the Cloud non believers because this is just game changing. You mentioned the point about the efficiency of people not having to bulk up manual labor to lock down and just open up so many security holes. Peter, I've got to ask you, I hate to put you on the spot here, what's it like now working with Fugue? You guys have done a lot of work together. What's the outcomes? Tell us about the experience. And what is it about their solution that really helps you out? >> Okay, sure. Well, I mean I think the most obvious ya know, response there is is the fact that we've baked it in, and it's part of the solution, it's one of the core tenants, and components within our command bundle. That in itself is a major part of our strategy. What we find in our customers, ya know we do find clients actually kind of range in where they are in terms of their Cloud adoption. And we're also finding with our Cloud Forte bundle folks actually will adopt different parts of it at different times. But, actually we do find clients are very interested... Actually, I think our best clients are folks who actually have been been playing with CI/CD and they've been playing with Cloud. But, they've actually kind of started to see that the sprawl affect is actually starting to happen. And they're looking to have speed, but also security at the same time. We find that the integration of Fugue, and that just, that kind of, that insane Cloud native thinking, and this kind of like ability to speak AWS natively as a native language is really important differentially, when we bring a joint solution to our client. >> How many of the scale pieces created? Josh I want to give you that final word on your, give us an update on your business. What's goin' on? What's the value possession look like now? Obviously, automation we're believers, we just talked about that. But, where's it go next? What's up with Fugue? >> Sure, so what's up for Fugue, all kinds of things over the next quarter or two that we'll be releasing. That I can't quite talk about yet, or my product lead will kill me. But, one of the things we've put a ton of work into is around pre-building libraries of policy for our customers. So, Nist 800-53 for federal we've implemented a lot as policy now. PCI, HIPPA, all kinds of standards, so that when they purchase Fugue they just get these out of the box. It's amazing to watch somebody who's been on Cloud for a little while bring up the Fugue compose or a visualization engine, go discover all their infrastructure, and then do import HIPPA, and find all the little red dots of where they're actually, have been running wrong, fix it all in less than an hour, and not worry about it again. So, we're doing a lot of business in federal. We're doing a lot of business with partners. And we're also doing a lot of business in commercial now, mostly on the larger enterprise side. The value prop is really around that controlling sprawl over time and automated remediation. There's lots of kinds of automation that are partial, unless the system like Fugue does can fix everything, if there are any gaps in that, you're back to manual world. So, it's a kind of binary scenario, so yeah. >> You kind of never give it up, unless you can fully let go of it. >> That's right, that's right. >> Awesome, well congratulations on the part, you want to... >> Can I pull string on that though, I mean I think this another great concrete example of why we like working with you guys. It's part of our business obviously, I would say one of the major blockers getting folks to the Cloud is what do we do with ATOs that folks already have? And how do I bring those security credidations into the Cloud? So, if you think of you know where I think the industry is going to go next, is automation frameworks that allow me to quickly figure out what I inherit, what controls or balance I need to address as I move to the Cloud. But, the fact that Fugue is looking at natively kind of having as a primary citizen of their policies, this idea of those Nist controls, that's going to help provide transparency and visibility. So, that's actually going to be key part of being able to shorten the time to get to an ATO. >> Well, that certainly accelerates the discovery piece. >> Absolutely. >> Then ya kind of understand what ya have first and then you attack it with automation. >> Exactly. >> And everything seems more efficient, that's the goal right? >> Yeah, so this is why you know the true believer there's concrete reality there. Which is I can demonstrate, but I can demonstrate in real time that I'm complying all the time. I mean we've never really had that before, right? >> Yes. I mean again, this wave is coming. And love the commentary again. Public sector is very interesting, it's just being disrupted heavily and at a highly accelerated rate. You guys are doing a great job. Good to see ya Josh, Peter great to see you. CUBE coverage here in Washington, DC. Bringing all the action expected from us, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Stay with us, we'll be right back with more after this short break. (upbeat music)