okay we're back this is Dave vellante we're here at knowledge the conference for service now users and we're at the aria hotel we're in Las Vegas earlier today we're broadcasting SI p sapphire SI p sapphires on SiliconANGLE too so you can check that coverage up but we're here with the whole team the cube team Jeff Frick is here my co-host for this week we'll be broadcasting live today tomorrow and part of thursday we got service now executives but more importantly we got tons of service now customers coming on but we've been talking about all week Jeff about the single system of record the sort of secret sauce behind a service now yes it's cloud platform yes it's ass but this notion of a single record database cmdb a configuration management database it sounds trivial it's not Chris Pope is here he's the director of product management for service now we're going to double-click on this notion of single record Chris welcome to the cube thank you very much having it's great to have you here guys so to be exciting yeah and we're thrilled to be here where Jeff and I were walking around last night talking to customers talking to prospective customers a lot of excitement I heard that figure that thirty percent of the audience is is perspective that's correct yes tomers that's a that's a nice number so hopefully your sales guys are here with you know how to go to wet yes I'm going to work right so let's talk about this notion of a cmdb we hear a lot about it it sounds pretty straightforward how come everybody doesn't have one well I think you know a lot of people try and have one and there's so many disparate data sources in IT now and you know with big data and data exploding and data centers growing worldwide it's kind of how do you wrap your arms around this stuff and you know having that single source of truth nut it's great you can collect the data and bring it together but can you truly trust it and you know if you're going to use it to drive decisions and impact analysis risk analysis and you know make changes in your business in an agile way well it can't all be in Bob's head who's been here 30 years you know Bob's going to go away at some point and you know if you're driving workflow and you're making decisions on a daily even a minute by minute basis in some occasions you know you need good trusted data in a single source of truth and then people don't worry about the data now they focus on delivering the tasks the services or whatever it is they're implementing knowing that you know they've got an accurate record they can trust and move forward with yeah so again it's it sounds so straightforward but it's not trivial to build a platform that is flexible that you can you can design pretty much any business process around it how is it that you guys have been able to successfully do what nobody else seems to have been able to do you know I think one of the big things is you know it's it's organic we have one platform one single system of record one database one data model and I think you know a lot of the legacy vendors and I'm sure others have talked about this a little bit I've blown up through M&A and there's a lot of glue I mean we have no glue right it's cool and when you know Fred who's I found that you know design the system and put it together it was with a focus not necessarily on the technology but what's the easiest way to complete the task I need to complete that's kind of core of what we do and why we do and if you can do it in three steps do it in three you don't need ten you know need 20 and I'm really focus on what you need to accomplish the task versus the nice to haves and I think you know a lot of seemly be projects fail because they're seen as a technology issue versus well you know we're running a workshop tomorrow on this what do you need to drive process or make decisions have that data available the rest of it could be useful at a point in time to make an additional decision or you know maybe you need a tiebreaker but for this task right here right now I can make a decision I can move on and we make it very easy for you to have that single system a record and you don't need to integrate with many other things it's all there it's really if you can draw it on the board you can implement it in service now but what you find with a lot of customers who are kind of less agile in nature and a little bit monolithic is they struggle to even draw it on the board right and therefore putting in a tool will only help you fail faster rights if you go back to figuring out what it is you actually want to do then use the tool to accelerate and automate you've got a much higher chance of success so that's interesting because I've been saying all week may I came in here with the premise that the real interesting business impact servicenow is that it allows me to change my business process is the way I want to run my business processes I don't have to design them around some module or so we'll lose this feature if we can't do that so so that's critical but you're saying start with the whiteboard start there and figure out your business and then we'll we'll be able to accommodate virtually anything is it really that flexible it is and you know I've been a customer three times so I've kind of got the war stories and I've worked with the dinosaurs out there and you know made the dinosaurs extinct in a lot of accounts I've worked in and I work with a lot of customers and you know it's easy to focus on the technology right it's here it's very available consumer-led and driven but it's you know if you step back and say what problem do you actually want to solve and let's draw the picture and even in the workshop I'm running tomorrow we have 30 whiteboards in the session and we're going to make the audience get up and work and design and draw and solve the problem and then we'll build it in the solution during the session live on stage and because we've taken away a lot of those things of you know the infrastructure the data center managing the tin it's just not cool anymore right nobody really wants to do it you know they can focus on solving the problem not wow it's going to take me six weeks to install servers and databases and storage all that's gone away and it's like okay if I can draw this and I can draw it in the tool and I can make it work and I can give it to my end users in a very consumer like way and off they go they can consume on an iPad a mobile device whatever it's going to be that's the natural behavior they have now of interacting with software so why should it be any different in the enterprise and clearly you know that's a big mantra for Fred and what he does and how he drives us to do things and you know and that's why we've got these phenomenal success so well so when you go into a customer for a new customer implementation they obviously been doing things away before you got there so is it greenfield let's start with the whiteboard and leave those in places how do you just place the way they've done it now you go doing so if they had integration from what they are you sitting over the top yeah so we you know we come out of the box you know align to ITIL and I TSM best practices but it's a framework it's kind of you know this is great but now where do you go with it what do you want to do and every custom is slightly different but maybe the course seventy eighty percent is pretty consistent and then it's about you know I talk a lot about being disruptive challenge the way of thinking just because you've done it that way for 20 years doesn't mean it's the right way to do it going forward and I was just meaning what a customer downstairs on exactly this and let's sit down and try and solve the problem let's figure out the what what is it you want to do and why and then the how is the technology to deliver that solution and then if the technology enables you to do those things easier even better because you can solve the next problem and you know we we make it as interactive as we can and try and learn from them what they actually want to achieve I t's very good at proposing solutions but they're not always sure what questions being asked so you know certainly what I do and you know traveling the planet as i do i always try and find out what it is you actually want to do kind of normalize of Technology if you could have anything what would you actually like to do and then here's where service now fits in and there are be pieces of the pie that we don't do it's not a core capability or our DNA and that's where we've got some amazing vendors and partners we work with who do fit in in certain places that augment what we do so on the transform it the transformative nature of what you enable I would imagine most customers are not picking up the phone to call you guys because they're all vested in IT transformation or are they usually it's a burning issue problem and the phone's ringing off the hook and I mean to get a lot of the time you know out of adversity comes try it right and they've usually had some very large outage any you know the banks and health care over there from a security breach to ATM networks being down or people not paying bills online it's typically a compelling event CIOs tend to have a fairly short life span yes what they need to do in that short lifespan is do something different or disruptive or you know they're going to be out on their ear anything right so this officer see compelling events but then when you you know technology events around upgrades and moving to new systems a lot of our competitors takes 18 to 24 months I mean even the customer I just spoke to downstairs took them a year just to upgrade the software that was our even looking a process change and doing something different so I think a lot of what we do enables that very simply and easily and they focus on the wat necessarily the hell a lot of times talk about CIO the half life of the cios you know yes tote 18-month yeah all right so but a lot of times CIOs know they want to make a mark but their risk averse because if there's a disaster under their watch the other they're cooked it seems like service now is a is a great initiative for them to transform relatively low risk but what are the risks involved you practitioner you know on one side what are the risks that need to be managed when you're when you're bringing in something like a service now plan yeah i think you know we were the first disruptive technology that started to a challenge this and and its cloud-based right you know so there mediate ones around trust security where is my data if it's not in my four walls of my data center i feel uncomfortable right and with data breaches and everything that goes on in the world people get very nervous about that stuff and I think what service knows brought to the table is look you know we do this well this is all we do and we are very very good at it and therefore you can trust is and often times you know we'll put our security up against another customer and say okay let's go toe-to-toe and let's prove how good we are and what we've done and here's our you know all our certifications and and certificates to operate and things like that and I think then it's just that little bit of mindset and I think what a lot of people forget is switching out a tool is a tool right and it could be any toy it doesn't matter there's an organizational change that comes with this and a lot of our keynotes this morning and I've worked very closely with Allison at the coca-cola company it's a mindset and if you can win the hearts and minds and then make the solution complimentary to their day-to-day tasks people are going to use it right and you know like sending an email okay that's fairly simple but now setting up a meeting or tweeting or whatever it's natural behavior it's in you're out and you're moving on to the next task whereas before you know if you were to submit a change request it was a tedious task because you have technical people doing things that's alien to them and they don't want to so the more you enable it or how they work on a daily basis the more chance of success you've got it making it you know making it successful so you miss your browser security obviously the one of the areas that everybody talks about when you go to a club do you feel like your security is better than most of your customers and prospective customers absolutely and you know I haven't been told to say that but yeah I mean I was at the new york stock exchange when we did that implementation you be asked another great customer in switzerland you know all of those things it's you know let's take the emotion out of the decision-making process yes it feels uncomfortable and it's different but that's okay so here's you know the facts the figures take the politics and the decision-making out of the process and if you look at just a features comparison and what we do yeah we absolutely stack up against everybody else and we beat them in so many cases and you know the phenomenal success you see here with the customers you know they've done the kool-aid they see what we do and you know we have everything from federal the government to the financials farmer fda-regulated they're all here you know it's clearly working and we've got more work to do as we know but you know it's a great success story and we're good at what we do let's talk a little bit about i.t governance it's just thrown around its buzzword people always trying to sort of grasp get their arms around it what do you mean by IT governance and how are people using service now is platform to affect IT government it physically you know if you mentioned word governance or order in 18 they run for the hills right there big scary words and typically you'd think people are going to get upset or fired as a result someone's getting someone's going to cap caught lift in the carpet but I think it's more around the controls and the processes and in service now we have that governance process we use our own technology to certify our own data centers and our own people for what we need to do to operate and I think it's more around looking at those operational controls and how do they roll up and there's a couple of customers here who of past HIPAA sucks audience using service now out of the box for those controls as policies and what they need to do and with a you know a single platform it's all tightly integrated the audit team the governance team whoever they may be you want always in the IT operations space who are the practitioners that can really influence this it's a single system record join together I can now know why they're asking this question or why you're my operational processes this way because it rolls up to a bigger thing that basically says if I do X I may expose customer data for the wrong reason my operational process is this way for a clear reason and I can tie the two together whereas if you put an IT guy and a government's person in the room I mean it's chalk and cheese okay they're never going to really get on so the technology really enables that it brings down the silo and the barriers and they kind of move on to solving problems the technology's not in the way I love the love the English idiom idioms bless your cotton socks no all right we have we're almost out of time Chris but I want to give you the last word you you're a practitioner of turned you know technology evangelist you've been through it now a few times on a by side what advice would you give to fellow practitioners that are trying to get their arms around IT service management they're trying to automate they've got this you know we're seeing a pattern developed that this this sort of stovepipe mess what's your main area of advice I think you know think differently and be disruptive right challenge the well the real world operational way of thinking ITIL itsm as many frameworks out there take what works for you and implement what works best for you and then find a platform that allows you to focus on solving the problem not managing the technology we do that for you we do it very well focus on solving the real problems you've got in your environment and the technology is a huge enabler for that and as I said if you can draw it you can make it work flow and then you can automate it and you only manage the failures and the exceptions if your process works ninety-eight percent of the time you have a very small amount of work to do to solve that last two percent and you're focusing on the real issues rather than you know understand the bigger picture Chris Pope you got some serious street cred so I really appreciate you come on the cube and sharing your perspectives and knowledge with our audience keep it right there everybody so first of all thank you for coming out thank you guys I really appreciate it so Fred Lunney is up next I'm gonna have a break and then Fred Lahti who developed the ServiceNow platform back in 2003 I believe started this we're going to go deep with him actually on some new announcements that service now made this week around mobile so keep it right there this is the cube I'm Dave vellante i'm here with jeff rick keep watching everybody we'll be right back after this short break

(pulsing music) (digital music) >> Welcome back to the Seaport in Boston. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of Red Hat Summit 2022. A lot of bummed out Bruins fans, but a lot of happy Celtics fans. We're optimistic for tonight, Boston's crazy sports town, but we're talking tech, we're talking open source. Dr. Amanda Purnell is here. She's the director of data and analytics innovation at the US Department of Veteran Affairs, and Ben Cushing is the chief architect for federal health and life sciences at Red Hat. Folks, welcome to theCUBE, thank for coming on. >> Thank you for having us. >> So glad to be here. >> So we heard your keynote this morning, project Arches. Now you were telling us just briefly about your previous life as a clinician. >> That's right. >> That's really interesting, because you know what the outcome has to be. So talk about that project in your perspective. What the goals were and how you actually got it done. >> I could tell the long view. I'm a psychologist by training. I spent the first 10 years of my VA career providing care to veterans. So engaging in healthcare behavior change, providing training to providers and really trying to understand what is the care pathway for veterans, what's the experience of veterans along each of those touchpoints, and it became clear to me over time that there were opportunities for us to improve the transitions of care and provide better information at the right time to improve those decisions that are being made at the point of care. Ben and I were just talking before we began today, part of the core of the development of Arches was beginning with human-centered design. We wanted to interview and better understand what was the experience across the VA of many different stakeholders and trying to access meaningful information, understand in that moment what do I need to make a decision with a veteran or what do I need to make a decision with my care team and how can I improve the quality of care for veterans? And so, hundreds of interviews later, it became clear to us that we wanted to help those individuals already working for the VA to continue to improve excellence of care and one of those ways that we're trying to do that is using technology to make life easier for our veterans and for our clinicians. >> I always like to say, they say, "Follow the money." I like to follow the data. And you said something in your keynote about nurses have to have access to information and it just gets to an architectural question, because as a caregiver, you have to get insights and data and you need it fast, 'cause you're saving lives, but a lot of times, architectures are very centralized. They're monolithic and you have to beg, borrow, steal, break through blockers to get to the data that you need. How do you square that circle in today's world? Maybe you could talk about that, and then specific to Arches, how you dealt with that. >> I can dive into that a little bit. I have to say, Amanda had touched on this during the keynote, VA was one of the first, if not the first, healthcare organizations in the world to actually adopt electronic health records and because of that, they just have this incredibly rich amount of historical data and the challenge, as you pointed out, is gaining access to it. So there are a number of programs within VA designed specifically for that. And they are bringing data not just from the data warehouses, but also data from the electronic health records that are running inside of VA right now, and then also third party community data sets, as well as applications that run inside the VA. Now the value here really happens when you produce insights. Data by itself is useless. >> Lot of data out there. They're plentiful. >> You need to create knowledge and then you need that knowledge to inform your process that comes next. Those actions are really what matters. All of healthcare is process and activity and data is really just a historical record. I mean, all data that we look at is happening in the past and then as we're reading it, we're producing knowledge, again, to inform our process. Arches, the program itself, is right in that space at the knowledge layer of actually taking that data and turning it into actual insight and something that is usable and insightful for clinicians to affect the ability to deliver better care and also to actually improve their own working experience. A lot of the models that are getting built out are specifically designed to help their workflow, help them reach better outcomes for the veterans, but also for themselves, because if we can care for the providers, it'll certainly help them care for the patients even more so. >> So how does it work? I mean, from the provider's perspective, how was their life improved by Arches? >> That's a great question. We want to make it easier to access the information. So as Ben noted, the average person providing care in the field doesn't know how to code, doesn't know how to pull a unique request for an individual data point, and what we're trying to do with Arches is provide a user interface that allows for both a non-technical person and a very technical person to access information, and then what gets provisioned in front of a provider is something that is farther abstracted from the underlying data layer and more like here's a specific insight. So I use the example in my keynote of chronic kidney disease. So what's provisioned to the provider in that moment is this person is at higher risk for chronic kidney disease based on this basic information. So it's surfacing just the right amount of information to allow for that care pathway to be improved, but the physician doesn't need to see all of the layers of code underneath. They need to trust that it's worthwhile, but they don't need to know all the background abstractions. >> So it's a self-service, essentially, infrastructure in that sense. You're hiding the underlying complexities. You gave an example in your keynote of an individual who realized that they were under counting the probability of a potential disease for African Americans. >> Yes. >> I believe she just rewrote the algorithm. >> She did. >> Describe that process, because in a lot of organizations, injecting that new algorithm may have required new data sources, would take an act of the Pope to do. How did it work in Arches? >> This is what I get excited about with Arches is that we have the opportunity to empower enthusiastic people like Dr. Joshi to discover an insight and she's a talented informaticist, so she could do the technical work and provision a container for her to work in, for her to do the data analysis, the underground stuff that we're not letting the average provider have to cope with. We were able to provision the tools that she need, the environment that she needed to be able to test and develop the new insight, confirm that they're there and then begin to validate that and test it in other facilities. So our thinking is, how do we bring the resources to the users rather than saying to the users, "This is what's available. Good luck." (chuckles) >> So we've been talking a lot about, I'm sorry, go ahead. >> I want to add on to that. What we're actually experiencing inside of healthcare right now is the emergence of of learning health systems. >> Yes. >> And this is a great example of that. The terrifying number is, it takes 17 years for new knowledge that gets created with healthcare research, whether it's NIH or VA or elsewhere, it takes 17 years for those practices to make their way into practice. Generally the way that happens is through the education of new staff. And so the dissemination of that knowledge is just so freaking slow that we cannot move nimbly enough to take on that new knowledge and actually implement it in clinical space. What Amanda's describing is something that now happens in months. New knowledge getting produced and then actually getting disseminated out, both the insights, whether they are those probabilities, predictions and recommendations and the actual processes, which are getting automated, as well. So if you think about healthcare as just a process, you can automate a whole lot of that and we can move that needle really fast and actually take that 70-year number down to a couple months. >> In the early days when we were all talking about AI and getting excited about digital, I would often ask the question, will machines be able to make better diagnoses than doctors and to your point, Ben, that's not the right question. >> Exactly. >> It isn't the right question. >> The question is, how can machines compress the time to better patient outcomes- >> Yes. >> in concert with humans and that's what we're seeing now. >> That's right, it's surfacing those insights to start a conversation. >> We've been talking a lot about artificial intelligence for the last two days. As clinician or someone with a clinical background, how do you see the clinical experience changing as machines grow more intelligent? >> I think that there's a learning curve for people to feel confident in an artificial intelligence. It makes sense. So someone spent decades, perhaps, of their life obtaining medical training, doing fellowships, doing additional training that they have trust in that deep training. There are times, however, where a technology is able to surface something that we didn't know that we didn't know and it's important, as we make use of artificial intelligence, that we clearly validate it with independent means and that we clearly also bring in additional analysis to understand what are the elements and then test that new technology in an environment before we scale it widely, so that clinicians can see, yes, this was useful. If it wasn't useful, how can we make it even better? So it goes back to what we were talking about earlier that we have to bring in human-centered design to figuring out how do we make use of AI or machine learning models and make sure that there's trust in those models and that we can clearly articulate value for the clinicians and care teams on the ground. >> Is that a natural evolution of Arches? >> This is all built around it. Arches is the technology platform, but there's no magical technology that's going to change how humans interact. And so the way we think about each project is we think about what are the technological components and what are the human factors components? And we have to think about the entire care pathway. I'll go back to that example, the chronic kidney disease. She identified that we were under identifying African Americans for chronic kidney disease. So she changed the algorithm. Not only did she change the algorithm, we also had to think about who would be informed of those changes, how would that change, who would be connected to the veteran in that point of care and build out the care pathway in the care team and that's really how you actually influence an outcome. Surfacing an insight is important, but it's one part of a much larger picture. >> So what is Arches? You said it's a technology platform built on open source. At least, there's a lot of open source in there. And it's got API connectors to all the legacy technologies that you need it to. Can you describe, paint a picture of what it actually is? >> Arches is evolving as it should. So it's designed to meet the unique needs that aren't being met by other infrastructure in the VA. So we started first by identifying the need for cloud compute, so it's in the cloud, it has open source technology so that we're not stuck with any one provider and also has the ability to use containers to be able to move insights out of Arches to an enterprise solution. We're also bringing in multi-cloud strategy, which also something had been discussed quite a bit at this conference, to make sure that we're not saying only one cloud provider can be the solution for veterans' needs. Our mission is serving veterans and so we want to have access to all the technology and not just one and so we're looking at how do we expand the scope to make sure that we have the most variety possible so we can meet the needs of veterans. >> I can add a little bit to it, as well. Think of Arches as a program. It's an incubation space under the office of innovation. So it's a place where the governance allows for trying new ideas and really pushing the envelope for VA in general. There's not a lot of organizations, if any at VA, that allow for that type of incubation and so Arches is in a unique position to create new technologies and new novel approaches to solving big problems. And then the next step to that is moving the work from Arches out into the enterprise, as you called it out. So for instance, the system of engagement where the actual clinicians interact with patients, the model needs to find its way there and we can't do that in a way that disturbs the current workflow that the clinicians have. We need to be able to bring the model to where the clinician is, have those recommendations, probabilities and predictions surfaced to the clinician in a way that is precise to their existing workflow. They need it at the time they need it. Arches itself is not delivering that part of it. It's more like the place where the innovation happens and the incubation really occurs and then it's about taking this container, really, and moving out to other systems that are already deployed out to the hospitals, the edge, and in the cloud. >> And the federated governance occurs in Arches or elsewhere? >> It happens across the continuum. It's starting in Arches. the clinical validation that happens there is wickedly important, because the clinicians need to know that what they're working with is actually legit. And so when they know that the researchers and the clinicians who are involved in that incubation period have done their work, they can feel confident with the recommendations they're getting from the machine learning models that are getting deployed to one of them. >> So many questions, so little time. What's the business impact? How would you describe that? >> For me, it's an emotional impact. People have a sense of, "I have a place to develop a solution and I can get in there quick, and I can test out an idea. I could potentially partner with an external partner or if I have the talents and skills to do it myself." It's empowering all of those innovators who have great ideas to work together to test and develop and validate solutions, and they're not waiting years to get the idea off the ground. >> Amazing. >> Go ahead, bring it. >> Is Arches open source? >> Arches is a platform and it has open source component. So that the underlying infrastructure of technology is open source. >> Why was it important to you that this be built on an open source platform? >> It's important for us that we not marry ourself to any one technology and that we allow for, as much as possible, transparency and many different tools and the right tools for the right solution. So we didn't want to find ourselves connected to only one way of doing things. We want to have versatility to have the right tool for the right problem at the right time. >> I'm so sorry, we're out of time. This is so interesting and I really appreciate you here guys, coming on and sharing your insights for theCUBE audience. All right, keep it right there. This is Dave Vellante for Paul Gillin. We're in day two of Red Hat Summit 2022. You're watching theCUBE. (digital pulsing music) >> Due to the pandemic, the federal government declared a public health emergency, which created an urgency for healthcare coverage. >> One of the biggest-

>> I am stupid men. And this is a special on the ground at the V Tug SummerSlam 2019. Nicky knows this morning is a lot of discussion about what's happened toe I t operations >> people and all of the changes that are impacting their career. One >> of the keynote speakers is Josh at, >> Well, who's a senior technology advocate with Splunk. Just welcome back to the program, >> thanks to always good to be here. >> All right, so you wait until the final V tug to show up s o about better late than never. >> That's exactly the way I look at it. Thank you so much for >> joining and yeah, you know, before you know, I don't want to talk, really hear about community and jobs. And of course, that's right in your sweet spot to talk about. You know, I've met you, you know, years ago, through the virtual ization community virtualization community, always good at, you know, people sharing, contributing and learning with each other. And you know, >> how have you seen that? >> You know, changing as we go into these new worlds of you, talk about nuance and cloud computing and all of these new things that >> have been changing >> well, so that uncovers a whole lot. I >> think one of them We >> need you to do it in, you know, under five >> minutes. I don't think I've >> been ever to have any conversation under five minutes, but I think we could pull this >> up. I think that >> during the virtual ization emerges, we required the bloggers and the contributors in the community in order for us as a as a industry to mature. Even the vendors weren't holy prepared on everything that they were going to need to deliver to handle that change. I think we're seeing a similar type scenario play out now, as digital transformation is impacting so much of what I t and development does, we have a whole new crop in mechanisms for getting people on board and understanding these trends in these new mechanisms. And I think the biggest way that people have really gravitated to our recently from a community standpoint are around events like your develops meet ups, Dev. Ops Day's events like those have been a huge and then video video has been the other element that has been just completely exploding everywhere throughout this and used to be very focused on the written technical documentation. Now it's I'm gonna show you step by step, how to do all these things. And then the last bit that I think is really interesting is because of the changes that we face now. The cultural elements are vastly different. It's a lot more conversation as a community about the cultural impacts of more transparency addressing burnout. How do you you lead up and influence up in an organization. Lots of cool >> stuff, Jack. Just did I see you were actually advocating >> reading books. You know, in your presentation this morning, don't you know millennials? You know, if I if I can't get it on tic tac or something like that and you know my daily newsletter, you know, it's probably a bit little bit too long form I digest, but, you know, maybe expand a little bit about what you were going out there. Well, >> I think one thing >> that's really important to note is that specifically within the IittIe space and with I t operations on as we solid the keynote today, most people have 10 plus years of experience, right? Most of the younger folks coming in and the operations or doing operational roles. And I have a different perspective in view, and they will have more of a development background and what they're doing. And so it's still hyper relevant. Thio Enterprise I t. And I to operations as a whole or consumption through books. And there's some really high quality books that have been published in the last few years. >> Yeah, maybe if you could speak a >> little bit of that, that organizational dynamic you know, the I >> t people >> versus you know, hey, who are those developers? You know, they used to just, you know, build their stuff and tell me to make it work out there. They dress a little bit different. They don't understand their language, you know? Are we seeing I t. And the developers coming together, at least working together? >> I think it's inevitable that we're going to continue to see more and more of that as I talked about earlier today, when Cloud was kind of emerging and, you know, we had rogue I T people development things in particular, going out looking for an easier option to get the IittIe resource is they need most I T departments for, like, roof. We dodged a bullet. We're not going to have to deal with agile development and lean development practices. Well, then, it turned out, Well, we actually need to modernize all of our applications in various different ways. We need to rationalize where they need to go. There's a lot better cost models for some of these applications. Get out of the, you know, spending money on things that aren't differentiating to our business because we have to. And so as such, those bridges have to be developed, and it is on operations team kind of change The model. It was their developing. You're not developing, but ah, helping developers. >> All right, Josh, explain what this new ops thing is that you're talking about. I know you've got the new op stays on, and, you know, so explain a little bit about >> that. Okay, Uh, new >> offices. A realization. Brinkley, that the way that we've operated I t and managed I t isn't going to work going forward with the addition of greater complexity applications being broken out. Micro Service's various cloud platforms, you know, pulling out private cloud using software as a service. I see operations has a much more diverse and much more complex job ahead of them on. And it's also increasing this scale of which what they need to operate. And so new technologies, new framework for how they operate had to be deployed. There's a lot of talk come out by motel I t. But this isn't really about by motility it's about. Here's what you need to do to operate the new. And you also then need to modernize everything that you've been doing to work within those same models, >> all right. And, >> Josh, you're holding the mic so >> that our audience can't see the T shirts. So maybe just >> shut up for a second and explain that one >> s So you know, it's like one of the things that we pride ourselves on or having really interesting T shirts. And this is really just getting just having people get out of the way and let the systems work for you. >> Yeah, absolutely. But it's a good point is, you know, I team you can't be the group of no from or the blocker where the Yale will get that done, and you know, Pope to 18 months and send us a pile of money we need to be able to move fast. The theme that I hear over and over again is it's the agility and tying things to the business. And I thought that was a great point in your presentation is if you don't understand You know what the key business objectives are this quarter in this year. I'm not saying you need to be, you know, drinking the Kool Aid on everything. But if you're not aware of it, you might be running in the total wrong direction. And therefore, things change. You can't be one of those. Oh, jeez. Why am I out of a job? Oh, well, maybe I wasn't relevant to the >> business. And I think what most I T organizations feel is that they don't get respected for their work they're doing, and it's primarily in large part because they can't show the work that they're doing is tying to business value on DSO until they start making that transition on, then becoming an organization that is a driver of business initiatives in business value and customer value. They're they're they're goingto have thio reconcile some of the things that they're doing >> Okay, final thing, Josh. So are there any skill sets >> or jobs that you know? I hate to see. It's like, Oh, you know the hot thing out there. But, you know, as people kind of look at their career, especially those that have been in I t operation for a while, what are some areas that you recommend them to start with? >> Well, I think one area that to core areas I think people really needed that developing good discipline about being data driven data managed. So being able to look at data management platforms, be able to extract, ask good questions of the data and then act on that data, whether it's an automated response or developing a plan for remediation or improvement on then the other is the adoption of automation framework. Specifically, be able to have an understanding of some some type of programming language don't have to be a full on developer, but you should be able to look at work. Other people have done know how to dissect that manipulate manage. It's what you need to be able to do so that you can remove yourself from the workflow, get out of being ticket driven and allow the systems >> that work for you. >> All right. >> Sounds great, Josh. Out. Well, always a pleasure to catch up >> with you on and off >> camera. So thanks so much for joining us. All right. More coverage is always at the cube dot net on stew minimum, and thanks for watching.

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Summit. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of IBM Chief Data Strategy Summit. My name is Rebecca Knight, and I'm here with my co-host Dave Vellante, we are joined by Christopher Penn, the VP of Marketing Technology at SHIFT Communications, here in Boston. >> Yes. >> Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we're going to talk about cognitive marketing. Tell our viewers: what is cognitive marketing, and what your approach to it is. >> Sure, so cognitive marketing essentially is applying machine learning and artificial intelligence strategies, tactics and technologies to the discipline of marketing. For a really long time marketing has been kind of known as the arts and crafts department, which was fine, and there's certainly, creativity is an essential part of the discipline, that's never going away. But we have been tasked with proving our value. What's the ROI of things, is a common question. Where's the data live? The chief data officer would be asking, like, who's responsible for this? And if we don't have good answers to those things, we kind of get shown the door. >> Well it sort of gets back to that old adage in advertising, I know half my marketing budget is wasted, I just don't know which half. >> Exactly. >> So now we're really able to know which half is working. >> Yeah, so I mean, one of the more interesting things that I've been working on recently is using what's called Markov chains, which is a type of very primitive machine learning, to do attribution analysis, to say what actually caused someone to become a new viewer of theCUBE, for example. And you would take all this data that you have from your analytics. Most of it that we have, we don't really do anything with. You might pull up your Google Analytics console, and go, "Okay, I got more visitors today than yesterday." but you don't really get a lot of insights from the stock software. But using a lot of tools, many of which are open source and free of financial cost, if you have technical skills you can get much deeper insights into your marketing. >> So I wonder, just if we can for our audience... When we talk about machine learning, and deep learning, and A.I., we're talking about math, right, largely? >> Well so let's actually go through this, because this is important. A.I. is a bucket category. It means teaching a machine to behave as though it had human intelligence. So if your viewers can see me, and disambiguate me from the background, they're using vision, right? If you're hearing sounds coming out of my mouth and interpreting them into words, that's natural language processing. Humans do this naturally. It is now trying to teach machines to do these things, and we've been trying to do this for centuries, in a lot of ways, right? You have the old Mechanical Turks and stuff like that. Machine learning is based on algorithms, and it is mostly math. And there's two broad categories, supervised and unsupervised. Supervised is you put a bunch of blocks on the table, kids blocks, and you hold the red one, and you show the machine over and over again this is red, this is red, and eventually you train it, that's red. Unsupervised is- >> Not a hot dog. (Laughter) >> This is an apple, not a banana. Sorry CNN. >> Silicon Valley fans. >> Unsupervised is there's a whole bunch of blocks on the table, "Machine, make as many different sequences as possible," some are big, some are small, some are red, some are blue, and so on, and so forth. You can sort, and then you figure out what's in there, and that's a lot of what we do. So if you were to take, for example, all of the comments on every episode of theCUBE, that's a lot, right? No humans going to be able to get through that, but you can take a machine and digest through, just say, what's in the bag? And then there's another category, beyond machine learning, called deep learning, and that's where you hear a lot of talk today. Deep learning, if you think of machine learning as a pancake, now deep learnings like a stack of pancakes, where the data gets passed from one layer to the next, until what you get at the bottom is a much better, more tuned out answer than any human can deliver, because it's like having a hundred humans all at once coming up with the answer. >> So when you hear about, like, rich neural networks, and deep neural networks, that's what we're talking about. >> Exactly, generative adversarial networks. All those things are ... Any kind of a lot of the neural network stuff is deep learning. It's tying all these piece together, so that in concert, they're greater than the sum of any one. >> And the math, I presume, is not new math, right? >> No. >> SVM and, it's stuff that's been around forever, it's just the application of that math. And why now? Cause there's so much data? Cause there's so much processing power? What are the factors that enable this? >> The main factor's cloud. There's a great shirt that says: "There's no cloud, it's just somebody else's computer." Well it's absolutely true, it's all somebody else's computer but because of the scale of this, all these tech companies have massive server farms that are kind of just waiting for something to do. And so they offer this as a service, so now you have computational power that is significantly greater than we've ever had in human history. You have the internet, which is a major contributor, the ability to connect machines and people. And you have all these devices. I mean, this little laptop right here, would have been a supercomputer twenty years ago, right? And the fact that you can go to a service like GitHub or Stack Exchange, and copy and paste some code that someone else has written that's open source, you can run machine learning stuff right on this machine, and get some incredible answers. So that's why now, because you've got this confluence of networks, and cloud, and technology, and processing power that we've never had before. >> Well with this emphasis on math and science in marketing, how does this change the composition of the marketing department at companies around the world? >> So, that's a really interesting question because it means very different skill sets for people. And a lot of people like to say, well there's the left brain and then there's a right brain. The right brains the creative, the left brains the quant, and you can't really do that anymore. You actually have to be both brained. You have to be just as creative as you've always been, but now you have to at least have an understanding of this technology and what to do with it. You may not necessarily have to write code, but you'd better know how to think like a coder, and say, how can I approach this problem systematically? This is kind of a popular culture joke: Is there an app for that, right? Well, think about that with every business problem you face. Is there an app for that? Is there an algorithm for that? Can I automate this? And once you go down that path of thinking, you're on the path towards being a true marketing technologist. >> Can you talk about earned, paid, and owned media? How those lines are blurring, or not, and the relationship between sort of those different forms of media, and results in PR or advertising. >> Yeah, there is no difference, media is media, because you can take a piece of content that this media, this interview that we're doing here on theCUBE is technically earned media. If I go and embed this on my website, is that owned media? Well it's still the same thing, and if I run some ads to it, is it technically now paid media? It's the thing, it's content that has value, and then what we do with it, how we distribute it, is up to us, and who our audience is. One of the things that a lot of veteran marketing and PR practitioners have to overcome is this idea that the PR folks sit over there, and they just smile and dial and get hits, go get another hit. And then the ad folks are over here... No, it's all the same thing. And if we don't, as an industry realize that those silos are artificially imposed, basically to keep people in certain jobs, we will eventually end up turning over all of it to the machines, because the machines will be able to cross those organizational barriers much faster. When you have the data, and whatever the data says that's what you do. So if the data says this channels going to be more effective, yes it's a CUBE interview, but actually it's better off as a paid YouTube video. So the machine will just go do that for us. >> I want to go back to something you were talking about at the very beginning of the conversation, which is really understanding, companies understanding, how their marketing campaigns and approaches are effectively working or not working. So without naming names of clients, can you talk about some specific examples of what you've seen, and how it's really changed the way companies are reaching customers? >> The number one thing that does not work, is for any business executive to have a pre-conceived idea of the way things should be, right? "Well we're the industry leader in this, we should have all the market share." Well no, the world doesn't work like that anymore. This lovely device that we all carry around in our pockets is literally a slot-machine for your attention. >> I like it, you've got to copyright that. A slot machine for your attention. >> And there's a million and a half different options, cause that's how many apps there are in the app store. There's a million and half different options that are more exciting than your white paper. (Laughter) Right, so for companies that are successful, they realize this, they realize they can't boil the ocean, that you are competing every single day with the Pope, the president, with Netflix, you know, all these things. So it's understanding: When is my audience interested in something? Then, what are they interested in? And then, how do I reach those people? There was a story on the news relatively recently, Facebook is saying, "Oh brand pages, we're not going to show "your stuff in the regular news feed anymore, "there will be a special feed over here "that no one will ever look at, unless you pay up." So understanding that if we don't understand our audiences, and recruit these influencers, these people who have the ability to reach these crowds, our ability to do so through the "free" social media continues to dwindle, and that's a major change. >> So the smart companies get this, where are we though, in terms of the journey? >> We're in still very early days. I was at major Fortune 50, not too long ago, who just installed Google Analytics on their website, and this is a company that if I named the name you would know it immediately. They make billions of dollars- >> It would embarrass them. >> They make billions of dollars, and it's like, "Yeah, we're just figuring out this whole internet thing." And I'm like, "Cool, we'd be happy to help you, but why, what took so long?" And it's a lot of organizational inertia. Like, "Well, this is the way we've always done it, and it's gotten us this far." But what they don't realize is the incredible amount of danger they're in, because their more agile competitors are going to eat them for lunch. >> Talking about organizational inertia, and this is a very big problem, we're here at a CDO summit to share best practices, and what to learn from each other, what's your advice for a viewer there who's part of an organization that isn't working fast enough on this topic? >> Update your LinkedIn profile. (Laughter) >> Move on, it's a lost cause. >> One of the things that you have to do an honest assessment of, is whether the organization you're in is capable of pivoting quickly enough to outrun its competition. And in some cases, you may be that laboratory inside, but if you don't have that executive buy in, you're going to be stymied, and your nearest competitor that does have that willingness to pivot, and bet big on a relatively proven change, like hey data is important, yeah, you make want to look for greener pastures. >> Great, well Chris thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante, we will have more of theCUBE's coverage of the IBM Chief Data Strategy Officer Summit, after this.

>> Man's Voice: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to Orlando, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract a signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Jeff Frick. This is theCUBE's fifth year covering Knowledge. We started in Las Vegas, a little small event, Jeff, at Aria Hotel, and it's exploded from 3,500 all the way up to 15,000 people here in Orlando at the Convention Center. This is day two of our three day coverage. And, we heard this morning, you know, day one was the introduction of the new CEO, John Donahoe, taking over the reins for Frank Slootman. And, actually it was interesting, Jeff. Last night, we went around to some of the parties and talked to some of the folks and some of the practitioners. It was interesting to hear how many people were saying how much they missed Fred. >> Right, right. >> And the culture of fun and kind of zaniness and quirkiness that they sort of have, and there's some of that that's maintained here. We saw that in the keynotes this morning, and we'll talk about that a little bit, but what are your impressions of sort of that transition from, you know, really the third phase now we're into of ServiceNow leadership? >> Right, well as was commented again last night at some of the events, you know, a relatively peaceful transition, right. So, the difference between an evolution and a revolution is people die in revolutions. This was more of an evolution. It was an organized handoff, and a lot of the product leaders are relatively new. We just saw CJ Desai. He said he's only 100 days ahead of where John is at 45 days. So, it is kind of a, I don't know if refresh is the right word, but all new leadership in a lot of the top positions to basically go from, as been discussed many times, from kind of the one billion dollar mark to the four billion dollar mark, and then, of course, onward to the 10. So, it sounds like everyone is very reverent to the past, and Fred has a huge following. He's one of our favorite guest. The guy's just a super individual. People love him. That said, you know, it's a very clear and focused move to the next stage in evolution of growth. >> Well, I think that, you know, Fred probably, I mean, he may have said something similar to this either in theCUBE or sort of in back channel conversations with us, is, you know, ServiceNow, when they brought in Frank Slootman, it needed adult supervision. And, Fred doesn't strike me as the kind of person that's going to be doing a lot of the, you know, HR functions and performance reviews and stuff. He wants to code, right. I mean, that was his thing. And, now, we're seeing sort of this next level of ascension for ServiceNow, and you seen the advancement of their product, their platform. So this morning, CJ Desai kicked off the keynotes. Now, CJ Desai was an executive in the security business. He was an executive at EMC, hardcore product guy. He's a hacker. You heard him this morning saying when he was at a previous company, he didn't mention EMC, but that's what he was talking about, I'm pretty sure. They use ServiceNow, and when ServiceNow started recruiting him, he said I opened up an instance and started playing around with it, and see if I could develop an app, and I was amazed at how easy it was. And, they started talking to some of the customers and seeing how passionate they were about this platform, and it became an easy decision for him to, you know, come and run. He's got a big job here. He run, he's basically, you know, manages all products, essentially taking over for Fred Luddy and, you know, Dan McGee as a chief operating officer even though he hasn't used that title 'cause he's a product guy. But, all the GMs report up into him, so he is the man, you know, on top of the platform. So, he talked this morning about Jakarta, the announcement, and the key thing about, you know, that I'm learning really in talking to ServiceNow over the years, is they put everything in the platform, and then the business units have to figure out how to leverage that new capability, you know, whether it's machine learning or AI or some kind of new service catalog or portal. The business units, whether it's, you know, the managers, whether it's Farrell Hough and her team, she does IT service management, Abhijit Mitra who does customer service management, the IT operations management people, the HR folks, they have to figure out how they can take the capabilities of this platform, and then apply it to their specific use cases and industry examples. And, that's what we saw a lot of today. >> But, it's still paper-based workflow, right? 'Cause back to Fred's original vision, which I love repeating about, the copy room with all the pigeonholes of colored paper that you would grab for I need a new laptop, I need a vacation request, I need whatever, which nobody remembers anymore. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's put in a request, get it approved, does it need to be worked, and then executed. So, whether that's asking for a new laptop for a new employee, whether that's getting a customer service ticket handled, whether it's we're swinging by doing name changes, it's relatively simple process under the covers, and then now, they're just wrapping it with this specific vocabulary and integration points to the different systems to support that execution. So, it's a pretty straightforward solution. What I really like about ServiceNow is they're applying, you know, technology to relatively straightforward problems that have huge impact and efficiency, and just getting away from email, getting away from so many notification systems that we have, getting away from phone calls, getting away from tech-- Trying to aggregate that into one spot, like we see it a lot of successful applications, sass applications. So, now you've got a single system of record for the execution of these relatively straightforward processes. >> Yeah, it really is all about a new way to work, and with the millennial work force becoming younger, obviously, they're going to work in a different way. I saw, when I tweeted out, was the best IT demo that I'd ever seen. Didn't involve a laptop, didn't involve a screen. What Chris Pope did, who's kind of an evangelist, he's in the CSO office, he was on... the chief strategy office, he was on yesterday. He came up with a soccer ball. Right, you saw it. And, he said >> Football. Make sure you say it right. He would correct you. (Jeff laughs) >> And, he said for those of you who are not from the colonies, this is a football. And then, he had somebody in a new employee's t-shirt, he had the HR t-shirt, the IT t-shirt, the facilities t-shirt, and they were passing the ball around, and he did a narrative on what it was like to onboard a new employee, and the back and forth and the touch points and, you know, underscoring the point of how complex it is, how many mistakes can be made, how frustrating it is, how inefficient it is, and then, obviously, setting up conveniently the morning of how the workflow would serve us now. But, it was a very powerful demo, I thought. >> Well, the thing that I want to get into, Dave, is how do you get people to change behavior? And, we talk about it all the time in theCUBE. People process in tech. The tech's the easy part. How do you change people's behavior? When I have to make that request to you, what gets me to take the step to do it inside of service now versus sending you that email? It seems to me that that's the biggest challenge, and you talk about it all the time, is we get kind of tool-creep in all these notification systems and, you know, there's Slack and there's Atlassian JIRA and there's Salesforce and there's Dropbox and there's Google Docs and, you know, the good news is we're getting all these kind of sass applications that, ultimately, we're seeing this growth of IPA's in between them and integration between them, but, on the bad side, we get so many notifications from so many different places. You know, how do you force really a compliance around a particular department to use a solution, as we say that, that's what's on your desk all the time, and not email? And, I think that's, I look forward to hearing kind of what are best practices to dictate that? I know that Atlassian, internally, they don't use email. Everything is on JIRA. I would presume in ServiceNow, it's probably very similar where, internally, everything is in the ServiceNow platform, but, unfortunately, there's those pesky people outside the organization who are still communicating with email. So, then you get, >> Exactly. >> Then, now, you're running kind of a parallel track as you're getting new information from a customer that's coming in maybe via email that you need to, then, populate into those tickets. That's the part I see as kind of a challenge. >> Well, I think it is a big challenge. And, of course, when you talk to ServiceNow people privately and you say to them, "Have you guys eliminated email?" Then, they roll their eyes and "I wish." (Jeff chuckles) But, I would presume their internal communications, as you say, are a lot more efficient and effective. But, you know, it's a Cloud app, and Cloud apps suffer from latency issues. And, it's like when you go into a Cloud app, you know, you log in. A lot of times, it logs you out just for security reasons, so you got to log back in and you get the spinning logo for awhile. You finally get in and then, you got to find what you want to do, and then you do it. And, it's a lot slower just from an elapse time standpoint than, actually not from an elapse time. So, from an initiation standpoint, getting something off your desk, it's slower. The elapse time is much more efficient. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And so, what I think ends up happening is people default to the simple email system. It's a quick fix. And then, it starts the cycle of hell. But, I think you're making a great point about adoption. How do you improve that adoption? One of the things that ServiceNow announced this morning, is that roughly 30% improvement in performance, right. So, people complain about performance like any Cloud-based application, and it's hard. You know, when you even when you use, you know, look at LinkedIn. A lot of times, you get a LinkedIn request, and you go, "I'll check it later." You don't want to go through the process of logging in. Everybody's experienced that. It's one of those >> Right, right. >> Sort of heavy apps, and so, you just say, "Alright, I'll figure it out later." And, Facebook is the same thing. And, no doubt, that ServiceNow, certainly Salesforce, similar sort of dynamics 'cause it's a Cloud-based app. And so, hitting performance hard, as you say, the culture of leaving it on your desk. The folks at Nutanix, Dheeraj is telling me they essentially run their communications in Slack. (chuckles) and so, >> Right. >> You know, they'll hit limits there, I'm sure, as well, but everybody's trying to find a new way to work, and this is something that I know is a passion of yours, because the outcome is so much better if you can eliminate email trails and threads and lost work. >> Right. And, we're stuck now in this, in the middle phase which is just brutal 'cause you just get so many notifications from so many different applications. How do you prioritize? How do you keep track? Oh my God, did you ping me on Slack? Did you ping me on a text? Did you ping me on a email? I don't even know. The notification went away, went off my phone. I don't even know which one it came through its difficulty. The good news is that we see in sass applications and, again, it's interesting. Maybe just 'cause I was at AWS summit recently. I just keep thinking AWS, and in terms of the efficiency that they can bring to bear, that resources they can bring to bear around CP utilization, storage utilization, security execution, all those things that they can do as a multi-vendor, Cloud-based application, and apply to their Cloud in support of their customers on their application, will grow and grow and grow, and quickly surpass what most people would do on their own 'cause they just don't have the resources. So, that is a huge benefit of these Cloud-based applications and again, as the integration points get better, 'cause we keep hearin' it 'cause you got some stuff in Dropbox, you got some stuff in Google Docs, you got some stuff in Salesforce. That's going to be interesting, how that plays out, and will it boil back down to, again, how many actual windows do you have open that you work with on your computer. Is it two? Is it three? Is it four? Not many more than that, and it can't be. >> Yeah, so today here at Knowledge, it's a big announcement day. You're hearing from all the sort of heads of the businesses. Jakarta is the big announcement. That's the new release of the platform. Kingston's coming, you know, later on this year. ServiceNow generally does two a year, one in the spring summer, one in the fall, kind of early winter. And, Jakarta really comprises performance improvement, a new security capability where, I thought this was very interesting, where you have all these vendors that you're trying to interact with, and you tryin' to figure out, okay, "What do I integrate with "in terms of my third party vendors, and who's safe?" You know, and "Do they comply "to my corpoetics?" >> Right, right. >> And, ServiceNow introducing a module in Jakarta which going to automate that whole thing, and simplify it. And then, the one, the big one was software asset management. Every time you come to a conference like Knowledge, and you get this at Splunk too, the announcements that they make, they're not golf claps. You'd get hoots and woos and "Yes" and people standing up. >> Jeff: That was that and that was the one, right? >> Software SM Management was the one. >> Jeff: (chuckles) put a big star on that one. >> Now, let's talk about this a little bit because they mentioned in, they didn't mention Oracle, but this is a bit pain point of a lot of Oracle customers, is audits, software audits. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And, certainly Oracle uses software audits as negotiating leverage, and clients customers don't really know what they have, what the utilization is, do they buy more licenses even though they could repurpose licenses. They just can't keep track of all that stuff, and so, ServiceNow is going to do it for ya. So, that's a pretty big deal and, obviously, people love that. As I said, 30% improvement in performance. And, yeah, this software asset management thing, we're going to talk to some people about that and see what their-- >> But, they got the big cheer. >> What their expectation is. >> The other thing that was interesting on the product announcement, is using AI. Again, I just love password reset as an example 'cause it's so simple and discrete, but still impactful about using AI on relatively, it sounds like, simple processes that are super high ROI, like auto-categorization. You know, let the machine do auto-categorization and a lot of these little things that make a huge difference in productivity to be able to find and discover and work with this data that you're now removing the people from it, and making the machine, the better for machine processes handled by the machine. And, we see that going all through the application, a lot of the announcements that were made. So, it's not just AI for AI, but it's actually, they call it Intelligent Automation, and applying it to very specific things that are very fungible and tangible and easy to see, and provide direct ROI, right out of the gate. >> Well, this auto-categorization is something that, I mean, it's been a vexing problem in the industry for years. I mentioned yesterday that in 2006 with the federal rules of civil procedure change that made electronic documents admissible, it meant that you had to be able to find and submit to a court of law all the electronic documents on a legal hold. And, there were tons of cases in the sort of mid to late part of the 2000's where companies were fined hundreds and millions of dollars. Morgan Stanley was the sort of poster child of that because they couldn't produce emails. And, as part of that, there was a categorization effort that went on to try to say, okay, let's put these emails in buckets, something as simple as email >> Right, right. >> So that when we have to go find something in a legal hold, we can find it or, more importantly, we can defensively delete it. But, the problem was, as I said yesterday, the math has been around forever. Things like support vector machines and probabilistic latent semantic index and all these crazy algorithms. But, the application of them was flawed, and the data quality >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Was poor. So, we'll see if now, you know, AI which is the big buzz word now, but it appears that it's got legs and is real with machine learning and it's kind of the new big data meme. We'll see if, in fact, it can really solve this problem. We certainly have the computing horse power. We know the math is there. And, I think the industry has learned enough that the application of those algorithms, is now going to allow us to have quality categorization, and really take the humans out of the equation. >> Yeah, I made some notes. It was Farrell, her part of the keynote this morning where she really talked about some of these things. And, again, categorization, prioritization, and assignment. Let the machine take the first swag at that, and let it learn and, based on what happens going forward, let it adjust its algorithms. But, again, really simple concepts, really painful to execute as a person, especially at scale. So, I think that's a really interesting application that ServiceNow is bringing AI to these relatively straightforward processes that are just painful for people. >> Yes, squinting through lists and trying to figure out, okay, which one's more important, and weighting them, and I'm sure, they have some kind of scoring system or weighting system that you can tell the machine, "Hey, prioritize, you know, these things," you know, security incidence >> Right, right. >> Or high value assets first. Give me a list. I can then eyeball them and say, okay, hm, now I'm going to do this third one first, and the first one second, whatever. And, you can make that decision, but it's like a first pass filter, like a vetting system. >> Like what Google mail does for you, right? >> Right. >> It takes a first pass. So, you know, these are the really specific applications of machine learning in AI that will start to have an impact in the very short-term, on the way that things happen. >> So, the other thing that we're really paying attention here, is the growth of the ecosystem. It's something that Jeff and I have been tracking since the early days of ServiceNow Knowledge, in terms of our early days of theCUBE. And, the ecosystem is really exploding. You know, you're seeing the big SIs. Last night, we were at the Exen Sure party. It was, you know, typical Exen Sure, very senior level, a bunch of CIOs there. It reminded me of when you go to the parties at Oracle, and the big SIs have these parties. I mean, they're just loaded with senior executives. And, that's what this was last night. You know, the VIP room and all the suits were in there, and they were schmoozing. These are things that are really going to expand the value of ServiceNow. It's a new channel for them. And, these big SIs, they have the relationships at the board room level. They have the deep industry expertise. I was talking to Josh Kahn, who's running the Industry Solutions now, another former EMCer, and he, obviously, is very excited to have these relationships with the SI. So, that to me, is a big windfall for ServiceNow. It's something that we're going to be tracking. >> And, especially, this whole concept of the SIs building dedicated industry solutions built on SI. I overheard some of the conversation at the party last night between an SI executive, it was an Exen Sure executive, and one of the ServiceNow people, and, they talked about the power of having the combination of the deep expertise in an industry, I can't remember which one they were going after, it was one big company, their first kind of pilot project, combined with the stability and roadmap of ServiceNow side to have this stable software platform. And, the combination of those two, so complementary to take to market to this particular customer that they were proposing this solution around. And then, to take that solution as they always do and then, you know, harden it and then, take it to the next customer, the next customer, the next customer. So, as you said, getting these big integrators that own the relationships with a lot of big companies, actively involved in now building industry solutions, is a huge step forward beyond just, you know, consultative services and best practices. >> Well, and they have such deep industry expertise. I mean, we talked yesterday about GDPR and some of the new compliance regulations that are coming to the banking industry, particularly in Europe, the fines are getting much more onerous. These SIs have deep expertise and understanding of how to apply something like ServiceNow. ServiceNow, I think of it as a generic platform, but it needs, you know, brain power to say, okay, we can solve this particular problem by doing A, B, C, and D or developing this application or creating this solution. That's really where the SIs are. It's no surprise that a lot of the senior ServiceNow sales reps were at that event last night, you know, hanging with the customers, hanging with their partners. And, that is just a positive sign of momentum in my opinion. Alright, Jeff, so big day today. CJ Desai is coming on. We're going to run through a lot of the business units. You know, tomorrow is sort of Pronic demo day. It's the day usually that Fred Luddy hosts, and Pat Casey, I think, is going to be the main host tomorrow. And, we'll be covering all of this from theCUBE. This is day two ServiceNow Knowledge #Know17. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. You can watch us live, of course, at thecube.net. I'm Dave Vellante, he's Jeff Frick. We'll be right back after this short break. (easygoing music)

live from Las Vegas it's the cute covering knowledge 60 brought to you by service now here your host dave vellante and Jeff Frick I very welcome to service now knowledge this is knowledge 16 know hashtag no 16 we're here in Las Vegas the Mandalay Bay Hotel Jeff feels like our second home with his cube season and conference season this is day one actually of our coverage really day two of the conference it kicked off yesterday with a lot of the technical sessions but the keynotes started today in the General Sessions we heard Frank's luqman laying out the vision of service now yesterday I happen to sit in the financial analyst meeting this is a billion dollar company baster passed a billion dollars last year grew in excess of sixty percent they're on track in my view to do a billion and a half this year service now is laid out of vision by 2020 of it being a four billion dollar company so Jeff we've been covering service now since the early days when they're a relatively small company with large ambitions and they've been executing nearly flawlessly on the vision that they set out and they continue to expand that vision expand the total available market bring out new products bring on acquisitions but the real story of service now is around the customers the core customers would sleep and calls our peeps the the IT folks within the you know the heart of IT bringing service management discipline not only 2i t but throughout the organization the other big vector of of stories at any knowledge conference of course is the founder Fred ludie and his core team the team of innovators we're in Iquitos today I swear Fred ludie was coding on his laptop he loves to code the guy's a programmer by heart but you're seeing things like elegant design we saw the announcement of a of a service now SmartWatch today a wearable device basically an enterprise you know system to predict to be informed to take your favorite KPIs and bring them right to your wrist so Jeff it's kind of more the same just bigger and badder this year they just keep clipping along right just like he said it's an execution game I talked to Chris Pope a little bit in the hallways this morning during breakfast and he said kind of what's the magic and it did it just get stuff done right people can just get their job done using service now and and as you said Frank loves to talk about the IT pros as their peeps but he made an interesting comment in the keynote that there's a lot more IT functioned discipline execution outside of the core I team structure so that obviously both really well for for service now but again we've like I said they've this our fourth year here run into the same customers every year the passion keeps growing and then you know the other thing I think it's interesting looking at the little service providers that are no longer little service providers Cloud Sherpas and fruition partners both now part of accenture and CSC so when you see the big Ian wise here service integrators they don't make a play unless they see a really big opportunity yeah they like to eat from the trough as it was as it were and so the trough is getting larger but I remember Jeff the first service now knowledge we went to knowledge 13 which was here in Vegas the smaller hotels any rate the area and we walked the floor that time and we were sort of asking ourselves well where is Accenture you know where are the big sis and we saw a cloud Sherpa syrup risen from companies like fruition who had a big presence there both of those companies were required Accenture acquired cloud sherpas of CSC acquired fruition the other thing I want to point out for those unit may not be is familiar with service now the company started with this sort of help desk you know mentality really try to automate and improve on help desk Frank's lubin said years ago he said at one of these conferences desk is a four-letter word and he got some booze because people hanging on to their help desk but it started with a relatively sort of legacy attacking a legacy business you know back then Gartner group was talking about how this is you know the the end of that business it's kind of going to go away and you know sloop Minh came in and really was the right guy for the job helped energize you know the vision that was set forth in the early days by Fred ludie but what you've seen consistently is the company has expanded its total available market going from you no problem man management change management help desk etc expanding that out into IT Service Management IT operations management now bringing service management across other parts of the enterprise what service now laid out today in the general session was essentially you had the the first software estate was ERP and that was brought to fore by the likes of Oracle and and of course s AP and then the next greatest state were skipping over some estates were sort of fast forwarding to you know the open systems world but the second greatest date was really that brought on by CRM and and one by Salesforce and what you're seeing service now is positioning is service management across the enterprise for everything in between back office operations and the sales and customer engagement like facilities HR but touching upon sales and marketing and some of the back office stuff so they are laying out a vision of the third greatest state which is service now everything is a service enterprise services service management where I t is the backbone of all of those operations in Jeff we're seeing that I mean I T we've talked for years IT touches every part of the organization but increasingly companies are becoming cloud ified and sassa fide across the enterprise and that's really a tailwind for service now it's the theme we talked about over and over every company has to be an IT company just what services or products to they wrap their IT around so important for a competitive advantage if i go back to abe to the our day at the Aria a couple days with Aria and I rewatched our interview with with Fred our day to interview we did a couple with them and he talks about the story of this platform vision that he had from day one and talking about the to the initial investors they said well was it do well does everything what do you want to do and really you know kind of a classic platform application play were then he you know built the application around a very specific use case and go to market and now you're seeing that vision that he had back then as the platform capabilities expand to do so much more and the other thing I remember from that that interview with him was talking about the copy room all the papers the different color papers in the copy room I need a vacation I need a new laptop I need to do this thing and really enabling everyone to build those little processes that were all encumbered by over and over again using this platform yeah so I remember again going back to the early days we had walked the floor in the early knowledge 13 days and said wow look at all these companies in the ecosystem watch that's the key to this is watching the ecosystem grow and specifically trying to understand which those companies in the ecosystem service now is going to require remember we had asked Fred about acquisitions and do they have to fit in do they have to be already running on the ServiceNow platform and he said well that's kind of interesting and what we've seen now is Andy related answer the question back then but what we seen because you didn't want to show his cards what we've seen is when service now makes an acquisition like they did with with with I tap and some others they brought in service watch with another company they purchased the GRC capability they completely replat form the company the software into service now same UX using the CMDB the the the CMDB using the same user interface everything is the same experience that's it that's huge now I want to dig into that a little bit and see how much how the service now do that so quickly I mean because basically it's taken out a year to replat form these maybe nine months 12 months 14 months but it's not the the nine years that we see with for instance oracle fusion which is sort of everything rewritten in java so it's gonna be really interesting to see that what else Jeff should we be looking for the other piece of that I picked up from Frank in the keynote was really kind of the different engagement models he specifically contrasted CRM versus the service management approach and you know you take care of the problem he keeps going back to the I fallen and I can't get up use case over and over so I'm not that it's kind of funny but but he takes it to the next level within a service management which is to do the analysis and to do the root cause analysis so that you don't have this thing's repeating over and over so it's a very different way to kind of approach customer engagement i look forward to kind of digging a little bit deeper with Frank on that great all right keep right there everybody we got wall-to-wall coverage three days of coverage from knowledge 16 check out well the hashtag is no 16 check out crowd chat / no 16 we've got burnt Lattimore documenting the cube interviews in there keep right the everybody will be right back after this brief word it's always fun to come back to the cube because

okay we're back this is Dave vellante I'm with Wikibon organ this is silicon angles the cube the cube is a live mobile studio we come into events we're here at knowledge service now's big customer event we're here at the aria hotel in Las Vegas and we've got wall-to-wall coverage today tomorrow and part of thursday as many of you know we were at sapphire now the big SI p customer show were simulcasting that on SiliconANGLE too but we're here in Las Vegas the ServiceNow conference is all about transformation transforming from no to now we've kind of got a double whammy segment here virtually every industry is transforming and certainly Big Pharma is transforming quite dramatically as well as the IT components of many industries Ross rexer is here he's the managing director at kpmg the global consultancy and T Juan Lumpkin who's an IT practitioner for Eli Lilly gentlemen welcome to the cube okay thanks for you so Ross let's start with you at a high level what's happening in the pharmaceutical industry in general Big Pharma how is the industry itself transforming and then we'll get into the I TPS sure so many of the Big Pharma's find themselves today in a situation that is unique to their their business industry and market where a lot of blocked blockbuster drugs which have been significant sources of revenue over the years are starting to come on with that it brings competition and a loss of revenue so the big farmers are all in a very coordinated methodical process right now to resize their business and at the same time enable the R&D function to bring new drugs to market focusing on patient outcomes that will happen in different ways in them they probably ever done before so the business model itself has changed and along with it all the support functions like ITA of course too so in that so it's all about the pipeline right and and the challenge if I understand it is that historically you got the big pharma companies they would you know go do about go about their thing and develop these drugs and they get a blockbuster and it was a relative today a relatively slow paced environment that's that's changing if I understand it correctly what's driving that change so the the innovation around medicines today is much different than it has been over the last 10 20 years in that composition around in the use of different biotech components to create a to create medicines is now being sourced in different ways historically Pharma built itself and really invested and was really a research and development company almost entirely in-house right so all the support systems and everything the way that the business was run was around that nowadays these the farmers are collaborating with smaller providers many of them in ways that again they just historically have never done everything was done in house to build to bring drugs to market and now it's it's shifted absolute to the opposite side where big farmers are relying on these providers these third-party providers for all stages of R&D and ultimately FDA and the release of these so t1 I introduced you as an IT practitioner and Lily so talk about more specifically about your role there you focused on infrastructure I teach em a list or more about them yeah so my rules are about service integration think about those services that we deliver to our internal customers within lily and how do we do that across our complex ecosystem where you have multiple different IT departments you have multiple suppliers who have different rigs and complexities in that space and so our job is how do we minimize that complexity for our internal business partners and making sure that the way we build variety is seamless for our internal customers okay so we heard Ross talking about the the pressures in the in the industry from a from an IT practitioner standpoint what how does that change change your life what are the drivers and what's the business asking you to do but just like anyone we need more volume but we also have to do that under under constraint and so for us how do we get more fishing so you think about this basically gone under you can only do so much outsourcing you only do so much change and so you have to see how do I start running my business more efficiently and I think that's the big shift and I tias you're moving from a from an internal infrastructure towers are truly looking at how do we deliver IT services and part of living IT services and making sure that we're a value-added partner and also being assured that we're competitive with other sources of our businesses have to get services from an IT perspective yeah so 10 years ago we used to talk a lot about demand management and to me it's that's why i love this from now from know to now because demand management is actually ended up just being no we just can't handle the the volume so you mentioned constraints you've got constraints you've got to be more efficient so so talk a little bit about what you did to get more efficient for us it was all about standardization so how do we how do we build standardization across our IT infrastructure nikka system within our IT partners empower external partners what that does it gives us flexibility so that we can deliver our systems and be more agile they think about our internal space we had a lot of complexity we had multiple procedures multiple processes different business units operating or delivering IT services in a consistent manner what we've been able to do it being able to streamline that we've been able to be more consistent internally in a line on the comments that are processes and how we deliver those ikea services to our customers so Ross you're talking about the sort of changing dynamic of what I would call sort of the pharmaceutical ecosystem right so so that's that sounds like it's relatively new in pharma it used to be sort of a go-it-alone the big guys hey we're multi-billion dollar companies we don't need these little guys you see all these startups coming out there really innovative there faster so take us through sort of how that's evolving how companies are dealing with the ecosystem and what kind of pressures that puts on IT what are you seeing out there so as t1 was was mentioning as well this was pushing to IT service integration as a kind of one of the next frontiers of now right being able to have the single pane of glass single system of record of IT and our ability to bring standardized services up and down in a coordinating consistent way has allowed for the bigger more monolithic type companies in be able to interact with with these smaller more agile more tech-savvy appeal partners and be able to not overburden them so the little provider who has maybe less less overhead of IT infrastructure and their processes would find it hard to be able to collaborate electronically with a big pharma if we had to adopt the big pharma's old-style processes so service integration is all about allowing for the the easy plug-and-play of these providers and establishing the reference set of processes and the supporting data that's needed to govern those transactions or the length of the of the outsourcing arrangement with with that provider in a way that doesn't get overburden them but provides the company Big Pharma the ability to have transparency ability to see risks before they're happening and to enter manage the cause so talk about your practice a little bit how do you what's role do you play it's obviously you've got this increasingly complex ecosystem evolving they've definitely got different infrastructures um how do you sort of mediate all this so Kim G what are our go-to-market offering and our solution set is based around a set of leading practices that that we have established over the past 17 years for example that we've been in the IT service management consulting and advisory business so we have these accelerators that we can we bring to a project and engagement like like the one we're at Eli Lilly where we can quickly faster than ever establish a common ground for those processes the operational processes first and foremost that would don't require years and years of consultancy process engineering 20 years ago type of thing so our role in that is to provide the basis for the are the operating model that's going to go forward and allow the core customer as well as these other providers to get there fast to get operating faster so t1 we've been hearing a similar pattern from the customers that we've talked to a lot of stovepipes a lot of legacy you know tools a lot of uncoordinated sort of activities going going on is that what what Lily with you would you describe that as an accurate depiction of the pasture i think i think that i think you're being kind yeah I'm sure we kind on the cheer we don't like to feed our guests up what I think it not to over use the ERP for IT term but this is something I t we've done for our business partners over the years we haven't done for our so if you think about the essay peas of the world where you get your CI CFO a one-click look at the the financial assets of the company you think about from a CRM perspectively doing that for our sales force we've done that from an HR perspective but we haven't taken the time to look at from an IT perspective and how do i give the cio that same visibility across our portfolio services so that he can ask those same questions you can have that same visibility so i want to add a little color to this whole erp for IT though of course on the one hand you know the sort of single system of record that's a positive but when you think of erp i say we were at SI p sapphire there's a lot of complexity in erp and with that type of complexity you'd never succeed but so what's your experience been thus far with regard to you know the complexity in my senses it's not this big monolithic system it's a cloud-based SAS based system talk about that a little bit well for us it's getting to a set of standards it actually helped reduce the complexity where you have complexity when you have multiple business procedures across the organization delivering services and so to get to that single source that single record it is actually help to reduce a lot of complexity on our part help it make it easier for us to deliver customer service for customers the other piece of that to which is the the singularity of vision of how we deliver I team so right now within our business we're depending on what area in you may get IT servers that delivers slightly differently from each area we've been able to streamline that and say this is how you're going to receive IT services and make it a more predictable experience for our internal users I saw Rus I want to talk about this notion of a single system of record before I ask you why it's so important what are we talking about here because today you've got a single system of record for your transactions you might have a single system of record for your your data warehouse all these single systems are at a record so what do you mean by a single system of record so when we're talking with service now and specifically in the IT Service Management domain what we're talking about is having integrated the capability to see data across the different data domains if you like so operational data performance data service level data with that coupled with the IT finance data as well as a zesty one put 360-degree vision of your assets as well so linking all those sources of data together in a way that can be used for analytics maybe for the first time ever so we we we use the analogy of IT intelligence right so what we've given our business partners and business intelligence over the years mmm it's-- never had that so the ability to provide IT intelligence that allows for the leadership due to to have data have information that they can take decisions and then ultimately become predicted with that right so be able have the knowledge to know what we're doing to make the right choices and in the future be able to do some predictive analysis again back to the point about the demands really never got one hundred percent right over the years we've talked about a lot but having the ability to understand the consumption and have the levers to influence demand and see it grow I want to go back to this business process discussion you were sort of reference the 20 years ago the whole VPO of movement and you know business process reorganization it seems to me that what what occurred was you had let's say a database or some kind of system and maybe there was a module and then you build a business process around that and so you had relatively inflexible business process they were hard to change is are you seeing that change it we at the cusp of the dawn of a new era where I can actually create whatever business process I want to around that single system of record is that truly a vision that's coming to fruition we believe it is and our experience it is it is starting to happen and I think service now with their platform is one of the emerging leaders in this space that's allowing for that to happen percent of the day so you have you have a concise platform that allows you enough flexibility to build new processes but has the common data structure has the common user interface as the common workflow set in a and all wrapped in and easy to maintain type of platform is what I think 20 years ago we wished we had and we tried to build in many different ways and ended up mostly cobbling things together but we really believe that and again our starting to see success out there David the platform question is solved and that we're now able to get to the prosecutor historically we you know delivered value plenty of value the problem is so much of that value was sucked by the infrastructure and and and not enough went into the innovation around it do you want my question to you is so people don't like change naturally now maybe it's different and nit maybe they want change in IT but did you see initial resistance I'll know we have this way of doing it we don't want to change or are people enthusiastic about change talk about that a little quite you hit it spot-on and absolutely the technology is the easy part of it it's really the change part that that's the most difficult piece of it and I would say we've done to a lot of work just a line organization and we've had a lot of support for from not only our internal IT people but also our senior leadership team so we've gotten support we've seen a lot of buy-in not saying still them not going to be easy not gonna be easy but I feel that we've got the right momentum now to make this type of change to get the business volume part of its been able to articulate the value that we're going to receive from from from this initiative so it's early days for for Lily and you guys should just get started on this journey not yesterday but you know you you're in an inference perience to give some advice to your fellow practitioners so my ask you guys both start with t1 what advice would you give to fellow practitioners that are looking to move in this direction great I would say first of all you have to have the business alignment so I need to make sure that you can clearly articulate the value of the change of the company so I can I can talk not in terms of process but in terms of outcomes that we're going to drive for our business partners once you're able to describe those outcomes then you can have the conversation on what's the work it's going to take to get there it's not an easy journey to be able to paint that picture accurately for for our teams and also talk about how we're going to support them through the process and so we're going to talk about the value we're going to we're going to paint the picture the journey we're not going to tell you how I want to support you throughout that process okay Ross you're talking to CIOs what's your what's your main point of advice for CIOs in this regard is look at the transformation as transformational right so it's it's it can be a set of tactical projects and tactical wins based on outcomes that you're looking for however to in order to truly change the way your IT functions runs as a business do all these these great things that we're talking we're talking about today is you have to have the vision and understand that it is there are series of building blocks that we will get you incremental value along the way but this is not a quick you know product slam then again maybe 20 years ago was about let's swap this software for that software and we're going to be good it's not about that and that's not going to get you the transformation so it's about transformation it's about the metrics to be able to prove that you are transforming and continuous improvement Ross do you want thanks very much for coming on the cube and sharing your story we could go on forever we're getting the hook but really appreciate you guys coming up thanks thanks for having right thanks for watching everybody we right back with our next guest Chris Pope is here who's the director of product management for service now so we're going to double-click on the platform and share with you some greater information about that this is the cube I'm Dave vellante we're right back