>> TheCUBE presents Ignite 22 brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everyone. We're glad you're with us. This is theCUBE live at Palo Alto Ignite 22 at the MGM Grant in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante, day one of our coverage. We've had great conversations. The cybersecurity landscape is so interesting Dave, it's such a challenging problem to solve but it's so diverse and dynamic at the same time. >> You know, Lisa theCUBE started in May of 2010 in Boston. We called it the chowder event, chowder and Lobster. It was a EMC world, 2010. BJ Jenkins, who's here, of course, was a longtime friend of theCUBE and made the, made the transition into from, well, it's still data, data to, to cyber. So >> True. And BJ is back with us. BJ Jenkins, president Palo Alto Networks great to have you back on theCUBE. >> It is great to be here in person on theCube >> Isn't it great? >> In Vegas. It's awesome. >> And we can tell by your voice will be, will be gentle. You, you've been in Vegas typical Vegas occupational hazard of losing the voice. >> Yeah. It was one of the benefits of Covid. I didn't lose my voice at home sitting talking to a TV. You lose it when you come to Vegas. >> Exactly. >> But it's a small price to pay. >> So things kick off yesterday with the partner summit. You had a keynote then, you had a customer, a CISO on stage. You had a keynote today, which we didn't get to see. But talk to us a little bit about the lay of the land. What are you hearing from CISOs, from CIOs as we know security is a board level conversation. >> Yeah, I, you know it's been an interesting three or four months here. Let me start with that. I think, cybersecurity in general is still front and center on CIOs and CISO's minds. It has to be, if you saw Wendy's presentation today and the threats out there companies have to have it front and center. I do think it's been interesting though with the macro uncertainty. We've taken to calling this year the revenge of the CFO and you know these deals in cybersecurity are still a top priority but they're getting finance and procurements, scrutiny which I think in this environment is a necessity but it's still a, you know, number one number two imperative no matter who you talked to, in my mind >> It was interesting what Nikesh was saying in the last conference call that, hey we just have to get more approvals. We know this. We're, we're bringing more go-to-market people on board. We, we have, we're filling the pipeline 'cause we know they're going to split up deals big deals go into smaller chunks. So the question I have for you is is how are you able to successfully integrate those people so that you can get ahead of that sort of macro transition? >> Yeah I, you know, I think there's two things I'd say about uncertain macro situations and Dave, you know how old I am. I'm pretty old. I've been through a lot of cycles. And in those cycles I've always found stronger companies with stronger value proposition separate themselves actually in uncertain, economic times. And so I think there's actually an opportunity here. The message tilts a little bit though where it's been about innovation and new threat vectors to one of you have 20, 30, 40 vendors you can consolidate become more effective in your security posture and save money on your TCOs. So one of the things as we bring people on board it's training them on that business value proposition. How do you take a customer who's got 20 or 30 tools take 'em down to 5 or 10 where Palo is more central and strategic and be able to demonstrate that value. So we do that through, we're making a huge investment in our people but macroeconomic times also puts some stronger people back on the market and we're able to incorporate them into the business. >> What are the conditions that are necessary for that consolidation? Like I would imagine if you're, if you're a big customer of a big, you know, competitor of yours that that migration is going to be harder than if you're dealing with lots of little point tools. Do those, do those point tools, are they sort of is it the end of the subscription? Is it just stuff that's off the books now? What's, the condition that is ripe for that kind of consolidation? >> Look, I think the challenge coming into this year was skills. And so customers had all of these point products. It required a lot more human intervention as Nikesh was talking about to integrate them or make them work. And as all of us know finding people with cybersecurity skills over the last 12 months has been incredibly hard. That drove, if you know, if you think about that a CIO and a CISO sitting there going, I have all all this investment in tools. I don't have the people to operate 'em. What do I need to do? What we tried to do is elevate that conversation because in a customer, everybody who's bought one of those, they they bought it to solve a problem. And there's people with affinity for that tool. They're not just going to say I want to get consolidated and give up my tool. They're going to wrap their arms around it. And so what we needed to do and this changed our ecosystem strategy too how we leverage partners. We needed to get into the CIO and CISO and say look at this chaos you have here and the challenges around people that it's, it's presenting you. We can help solve that by, by standardizing, consolidating taking that integration away from you as Nikesh talked about, and making it easier for your your high skill people to work on high skill, you know high challenges in there. >> Let chaos reign, and then reign in the chaos. >> Yes. >> Andy Grove. >> I was looking at some stats that there's 26 million developers but less than 3 million cybersecurity professionals. >> Talked about that skills gap and what CISOs and CIOs are facing is do you consider from a value prop perspective Palo Alto Networks to be a, a facilitator of helping organizations deal with that skills gap? >> I think there's a short term and a long term. I think Nikesh today talked about the long term that we'll never win this battle with human beings. We're going to have to win it with automation. That, that's the long term the short term right here and now is that people need people with cybersecurity skills. Now what we're trying to do, you know, is multifaceted. We work with universities to standardize programs to develop skills that people can come into the marketplace with. We run our own programs inside the company. We have a cloud academy program now where we take people high aptitude for sales and technical aptitude and we will put them through a six month boot camp on cloud and they'll come out of that ready to really work with the leading experts in cloud security. The third angle is partners, right, there are partners in the marketplace who want to drive their business into high services areas. They have people, they know how to train. We give them, we partner with them to give them training. Hopefully that helps solve some of the short-term gaps that are out there today. >> So you made the jump from data storage to security and >> Yeah. >> You know, network security, all kinds of security. What was that like? What you must have learned a lot in the last better part of a decade? >> Yeah. >> Take us through that. >> You know, so the first jump was from EMC. I was 15 years there to be CEO of Barracuda. And you know, it was interesting because EMC was, you know large enterprise for the most part. At Barracuda we had, you know 250,000 small and mid-size enterprises. And it was, it's interesting to get into security in small and mid-size businesses because, you know Wendy today was talking about nation states. For small and mid-size business, it's common thievery right? It's ransomware, it's, and, those customers don't have, you know, the human and financial resources to keep up with the threat factor. So, you know, Nikesh talked about how it's taken 'em four and a half years to get into cybersecurity. I remember my first week at Barracuda, I was talking with a customer who had, you know, breached data shut down. There wasn't much bitcoin back then so it was just a pure ransom. And I'm like, wow, this is, you know, incredible industry. So it's been a good, you know, transition for me. I still think data is at the heart of all of this. Right? And I have always believed there's a strong connection between the things I learned growing up at EMC and what I put into practice today at Palo Alto Networks. >> And how about a culture because I, you know I know have observed the EMC culture >> Yeah. >> And you were there in really the heyday. >> Yeah. >> Right? Which was an awesome place. And it seems like Palo Alto obviously, different times but you know, similar like laser focus on solving problems, you know, obviously great, you know value sellers, you know, you guys aren't the commodity >> Yeah. For Product. But there seemed to be some similarities from afar. I don't know Palo Alto as well as I know EMC. >> I think there's a lot. When I joined EMC, it was about, it was 2 billion in in revenue and I think when I left it was over 20, 20, 21. And, you know, we're at, you know hopefully 5, 5 5 in revenue. I feel like it's this very similar, there's a sense of urgency, there's an incredible focus on the customer. you know, Near and Moche are definitely different individuals but the both same kind of disruptive, Israeli force out there driving the business. There are a lot of similarities. I, you know, the passion, I feel privileged as a, you know go to market person that I have this incredible portfolio to go, you know, work with customers on. It's a lucky position to be in, but very I feel like it is a movie I've seen before. >> Yeah. And but, and the course, the challenges from the, the target that you're disrupting is different. It was, you know, EMC had a lot of big, you know IBM obviously was, you know, bigger target whereas you got thousands of, you know, smaller companies. >> Yes. >> And, and so that's a different dynamic but that's why the consolidation play is so important. >> Look at, that's why I joined Palo Alto Networks when I was at Barracuda for nine years. It just fascinated me, that there was 3000 plus players in security and why didn't security evolve like the storage market did or the server market or network where working >> Yeah, right. >> You know, two or three big gorillas came to, to dominate those markets. And it's, I think it's what Nikesh talked about today. There was a new problem in best of breed. It was always best of breed. You can never in security go in and, you know, say, Hey it's good I saved us some money but I got the third best product in the marketplace. And there was that kind of gap between products. I, believe in why I joined here I think this is my last gig is we have a chance to change that. And this is the first company as I look from the outside in that had best of breed as, you know Nikesh said 13 categories. >> Yeah. >> And you know, we're in the leaders quadrant and it's a conversation I have with customers. You don't have to sacrifice best of breed but get the benefits of a platform. And I, think that resonates today. I think we have a chance to change the industry from that viewpoint. >> Give us a little view of the voice of the customer. You had, was it Sabre? >> Yeah. >> That was on >> Scott Moser, The CISO from Sabre. >> Give us a view, what are you hearing from the voice of the customer? Obviously they're quite a successful customer but challenges, concerns, the partnership. >> Yeah. Look, I think security is similar to industries where we come up with magic marketing phrases and, you know, things to you know, make you want to procure our solutions. You know, zero trust is one. And you know, you'll talk to customers and they're like, okay, yes. And you know, the government, right? Joe, Joe Biden's putting out zero trust executive orders. And the, the problem is if you talk to customers, it's a journey. They have legacy infrastructure they have business drivers that you know they just don't deal with us. They've got to deal with the business side who's trying to make the money that keeps the, the company going. it's really helped them draw a map from where they're at today to zero trust or to a better security architecture. Or, you know, they're moving their apps into the cloud. How am I going to migrate? Right? Again, that discussion three years ago was around lift and shift, right? Today it's about, well, no I need cloud native developed apps to service the business the way I want to, I want to service it. How do I, so I, I think there's this element of a trusted partner and relationship. And again, I think this is why you can't have 40 or 50 of those. You got to start narrowing it down if you want to be able to meet and beat the threats that are out there for you. So I, you know, the customers, I see a lot of 'em. It's, here's where I'm at help me get here to a better position. And they know it's, you know Scott said in our keynote today, you don't just, you know have layer three firewall policies and decide, okay tomorrow I'm going to go to layer seven. That, that's not how it works. Right? There's, and, and by the way these things are a mission critical type areas. So there's got to be a game plan that you help customers go through to get there. >> Definitely. Last question, my last question for you is, is security being a board level conversation I was reading some stats from a survey I think it was the what's new in Cypress survey that that Palo Alto released today that showed that while significant numbers of organizations think they've got a cyber resiliency playbook, there's a lot of disconnect or lack of alignment at the boardroom. Are you in those conversations? How can you help facilitate that alignment between the executive team and the board when it comes to security being so foundational to any business? >> Yeah, it's, I've been on three, four public company boards. I'm on, I'm on two today. I would say four years ago, this was a almost a taboo topic. It was a, put your head in the sand and pray to God nothing happened. And you know, the world has changed significantly. And because of the number of breaches the impact it's had on brand, boards have to think about this in duty of care and their fiduciary duty. Okay. So then you start with a board that may not have the technical skills. The first problem the security industry had is how do I explain your risk profile in a way you can understand it. I'm, I'm on the board of Generac that makes home generators. It's a manufacturing, you know, company but they put Wifi modules in their boxes so that the dealers could help do the maintenance on 'em. And all of a sudden these things were getting attacked. Right? And they're being used for bot attacks. >> Yeah. >> Everybody on their board had a manufacturing background. >> Ah. >> So how do you help that board understand the risk they have that's what's changed over the last four years. It's a constant discussion. It's one I have with CISOs where they're like help us put it in layman's terms so they understand they know what we're doing and they feel confident but at the same time understand the marketplace better. And that's a journey for us. >> That Generac example is a great one because, you know, think about IOT Technologies. They've historically been air gaped >> Yes. >> By design. And all of a sudden the business comes in and says, "Hey we can put wifi in there", you know >> Connect it to a home Wifi system that >> Make our lives so much easier. Next thing you know, it's being used to attack. >> Yeah. >> So that's why, as you go around the world are you discerning, I know you were just in Japan are you discerning significant differences in sort of attitudes toward, towards cyber? Whether it's public policy, you know things like regulation where you, they don't want you sharing data, but as as a cyber company, you want to share that data with you know, public and private? >> Look it, I, I think around the world we see incredible government activity first of all. And I think given the position we're in we get to have some unique conversations there. I would say worldwide security is an imperative. I, no matter where I go, you know it's in front of everybody's mind. The, on the, the governance side, it's really what do we need to adapt to make sure we meet local regulations. And I, and I would just tell you Dave there's ways when you do that, and we talk with governments that because of how they want to do it reduce our ability to give them full insight into all the threats and how we can help them. And I do think over time governments understand that we can anonymize the data. There's, but that, that's a work in process. Definitely there is a balance. We need to have privacy, we need to have, you know personal security for people. But there's ways to collect that data in an anonymous way and give better security insight back into the architectures that are out there. >> All right. A little shift the gears here. A little sports question. We've had some great Boston's sports guests on theCUBE right? I mean, Randy Seidel, we were talking about him. Peter McKay, Snyk, I guess he's a competitor now but you know, there's no question got >> He got a little funding today. I saw that. >> Down round. But they still got a lot of money. Not of a down round, but they were, but yeah, but actually, you know, he was on several years ago and it was around the time they were talking about trading Brady. He said Never trade Brady. And he got that right. We, I think we can agree Brady's the goat. >> Yes. >> The big question I have for you is, Belichick. Do you ever question Has your belief in him as the greatest coach of all time wavered, you know, now that- No. Okay. >> Never. >> Weigh in on that. >> Never, he says >> Still the Goat. >> I'll give you my best. You know, never In Bill we trust. >> Okay. Still. >> All right >> I, you know, the NFL is a unique property that's designed for parody and is designed, I mean actively designed to not let Mr. Craft and Bill Belichick do what they do every year. I feel privileged as a Boston sports fan that in our worst years we're in the seventh playoff spot. And I have a lot of family in Chicago who would kill for that position, by the way. And you know, they're in perpetual rebuilding. And so look, and I think he, you know the way he's been able to manage the cap and the skill levels, I think we have a top five defense. There's different ways to win titles. And if I, you know, remember in Brady's last title with Boston, the defense won us that Super Bowl. >> Well thanks for weighing in on that because there's a lot of crazy talk going on. Like, 'Hey, if he doesn't beat Arizona, he's got to go.' I'm like, what? So, okay, I'm sometimes it takes a good good loyal fan who's maybe, you know, has >> The good news in Boston is we're emotional fans too so I understand you got to keep the long term long term in mind. And we're, we're in a privileged position in Boston. We've got Celtics, we've got Bruins we've got the Patriots right on the edge of the playoffs and we need the Red Sox to get to work. >> Yeah, no, you know they were last, last year so maybe they're going to win it all like they usually do. So >> Fingers crossed. >> Crazy worst to first. >> Exactly. Well you said, in Bill we trust it sounds like from our conversation in BJ we trust from the customers, the partners. >> I hope so. >> Thank you so much BJ, for coming back on theCUBE giving us the lay of the land, what's new, the voice of the customer and how Palo Alto was really differentiated in the market. We always appreciate your, coming on the show you >> Honor and privilege seeing you here. Thanks. >> You may be thinking that you were watching ESPN just now but you know, we call ourselves the ESPN at Tech News. This is Lisa Martin for Dave Vellante and our guest. You're watching theCUBE, the Leader and live emerging in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(pulsing music) (digital music) >> Welcome back to the Seaport in Boston. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of Red Hat Summit 2022. A lot of bummed out Bruins fans, but a lot of happy Celtics fans. We're optimistic for tonight, Boston's crazy sports town, but we're talking tech, we're talking open source. Dr. Amanda Purnell is here. She's the director of data and analytics innovation at the US Department of Veteran Affairs, and Ben Cushing is the chief architect for federal health and life sciences at Red Hat. Folks, welcome to theCUBE, thank for coming on. >> Thank you for having us. >> So glad to be here. >> So we heard your keynote this morning, project Arches. Now you were telling us just briefly about your previous life as a clinician. >> That's right. >> That's really interesting, because you know what the outcome has to be. So talk about that project in your perspective. What the goals were and how you actually got it done. >> I could tell the long view. I'm a psychologist by training. I spent the first 10 years of my VA career providing care to veterans. So engaging in healthcare behavior change, providing training to providers and really trying to understand what is the care pathway for veterans, what's the experience of veterans along each of those touchpoints, and it became clear to me over time that there were opportunities for us to improve the transitions of care and provide better information at the right time to improve those decisions that are being made at the point of care. Ben and I were just talking before we began today, part of the core of the development of Arches was beginning with human-centered design. We wanted to interview and better understand what was the experience across the VA of many different stakeholders and trying to access meaningful information, understand in that moment what do I need to make a decision with a veteran or what do I need to make a decision with my care team and how can I improve the quality of care for veterans? And so, hundreds of interviews later, it became clear to us that we wanted to help those individuals already working for the VA to continue to improve excellence of care and one of those ways that we're trying to do that is using technology to make life easier for our veterans and for our clinicians. >> I always like to say, they say, "Follow the money." I like to follow the data. And you said something in your keynote about nurses have to have access to information and it just gets to an architectural question, because as a caregiver, you have to get insights and data and you need it fast, 'cause you're saving lives, but a lot of times, architectures are very centralized. They're monolithic and you have to beg, borrow, steal, break through blockers to get to the data that you need. How do you square that circle in today's world? Maybe you could talk about that, and then specific to Arches, how you dealt with that. >> I can dive into that a little bit. I have to say, Amanda had touched on this during the keynote, VA was one of the first, if not the first, healthcare organizations in the world to actually adopt electronic health records and because of that, they just have this incredibly rich amount of historical data and the challenge, as you pointed out, is gaining access to it. So there are a number of programs within VA designed specifically for that. And they are bringing data not just from the data warehouses, but also data from the electronic health records that are running inside of VA right now, and then also third party community data sets, as well as applications that run inside the VA. Now the value here really happens when you produce insights. Data by itself is useless. >> Lot of data out there. They're plentiful. >> You need to create knowledge and then you need that knowledge to inform your process that comes next. Those actions are really what matters. All of healthcare is process and activity and data is really just a historical record. I mean, all data that we look at is happening in the past and then as we're reading it, we're producing knowledge, again, to inform our process. Arches, the program itself, is right in that space at the knowledge layer of actually taking that data and turning it into actual insight and something that is usable and insightful for clinicians to affect the ability to deliver better care and also to actually improve their own working experience. A lot of the models that are getting built out are specifically designed to help their workflow, help them reach better outcomes for the veterans, but also for themselves, because if we can care for the providers, it'll certainly help them care for the patients even more so. >> So how does it work? I mean, from the provider's perspective, how was their life improved by Arches? >> That's a great question. We want to make it easier to access the information. So as Ben noted, the average person providing care in the field doesn't know how to code, doesn't know how to pull a unique request for an individual data point, and what we're trying to do with Arches is provide a user interface that allows for both a non-technical person and a very technical person to access information, and then what gets provisioned in front of a provider is something that is farther abstracted from the underlying data layer and more like here's a specific insight. So I use the example in my keynote of chronic kidney disease. So what's provisioned to the provider in that moment is this person is at higher risk for chronic kidney disease based on this basic information. So it's surfacing just the right amount of information to allow for that care pathway to be improved, but the physician doesn't need to see all of the layers of code underneath. They need to trust that it's worthwhile, but they don't need to know all the background abstractions. >> So it's a self-service, essentially, infrastructure in that sense. You're hiding the underlying complexities. You gave an example in your keynote of an individual who realized that they were under counting the probability of a potential disease for African Americans. >> Yes. >> I believe she just rewrote the algorithm. >> She did. >> Describe that process, because in a lot of organizations, injecting that new algorithm may have required new data sources, would take an act of the Pope to do. How did it work in Arches? >> This is what I get excited about with Arches is that we have the opportunity to empower enthusiastic people like Dr. Joshi to discover an insight and she's a talented informaticist, so she could do the technical work and provision a container for her to work in, for her to do the data analysis, the underground stuff that we're not letting the average provider have to cope with. We were able to provision the tools that she need, the environment that she needed to be able to test and develop the new insight, confirm that they're there and then begin to validate that and test it in other facilities. So our thinking is, how do we bring the resources to the users rather than saying to the users, "This is what's available. Good luck." (chuckles) >> So we've been talking a lot about, I'm sorry, go ahead. >> I want to add on to that. What we're actually experiencing inside of healthcare right now is the emergence of of learning health systems. >> Yes. >> And this is a great example of that. The terrifying number is, it takes 17 years for new knowledge that gets created with healthcare research, whether it's NIH or VA or elsewhere, it takes 17 years for those practices to make their way into practice. Generally the way that happens is through the education of new staff. And so the dissemination of that knowledge is just so freaking slow that we cannot move nimbly enough to take on that new knowledge and actually implement it in clinical space. What Amanda's describing is something that now happens in months. New knowledge getting produced and then actually getting disseminated out, both the insights, whether they are those probabilities, predictions and recommendations and the actual processes, which are getting automated, as well. So if you think about healthcare as just a process, you can automate a whole lot of that and we can move that needle really fast and actually take that 70-year number down to a couple months. >> In the early days when we were all talking about AI and getting excited about digital, I would often ask the question, will machines be able to make better diagnoses than doctors and to your point, Ben, that's not the right question. >> Exactly. >> It isn't the right question. >> The question is, how can machines compress the time to better patient outcomes- >> Yes. >> in concert with humans and that's what we're seeing now. >> That's right, it's surfacing those insights to start a conversation. >> We've been talking a lot about artificial intelligence for the last two days. As clinician or someone with a clinical background, how do you see the clinical experience changing as machines grow more intelligent? >> I think that there's a learning curve for people to feel confident in an artificial intelligence. It makes sense. So someone spent decades, perhaps, of their life obtaining medical training, doing fellowships, doing additional training that they have trust in that deep training. There are times, however, where a technology is able to surface something that we didn't know that we didn't know and it's important, as we make use of artificial intelligence, that we clearly validate it with independent means and that we clearly also bring in additional analysis to understand what are the elements and then test that new technology in an environment before we scale it widely, so that clinicians can see, yes, this was useful. If it wasn't useful, how can we make it even better? So it goes back to what we were talking about earlier that we have to bring in human-centered design to figuring out how do we make use of AI or machine learning models and make sure that there's trust in those models and that we can clearly articulate value for the clinicians and care teams on the ground. >> Is that a natural evolution of Arches? >> This is all built around it. Arches is the technology platform, but there's no magical technology that's going to change how humans interact. And so the way we think about each project is we think about what are the technological components and what are the human factors components? And we have to think about the entire care pathway. I'll go back to that example, the chronic kidney disease. She identified that we were under identifying African Americans for chronic kidney disease. So she changed the algorithm. Not only did she change the algorithm, we also had to think about who would be informed of those changes, how would that change, who would be connected to the veteran in that point of care and build out the care pathway in the care team and that's really how you actually influence an outcome. Surfacing an insight is important, but it's one part of a much larger picture. >> So what is Arches? You said it's a technology platform built on open source. At least, there's a lot of open source in there. And it's got API connectors to all the legacy technologies that you need it to. Can you describe, paint a picture of what it actually is? >> Arches is evolving as it should. So it's designed to meet the unique needs that aren't being met by other infrastructure in the VA. So we started first by identifying the need for cloud compute, so it's in the cloud, it has open source technology so that we're not stuck with any one provider and also has the ability to use containers to be able to move insights out of Arches to an enterprise solution. We're also bringing in multi-cloud strategy, which also something had been discussed quite a bit at this conference, to make sure that we're not saying only one cloud provider can be the solution for veterans' needs. Our mission is serving veterans and so we want to have access to all the technology and not just one and so we're looking at how do we expand the scope to make sure that we have the most variety possible so we can meet the needs of veterans. >> I can add a little bit to it, as well. Think of Arches as a program. It's an incubation space under the office of innovation. So it's a place where the governance allows for trying new ideas and really pushing the envelope for VA in general. There's not a lot of organizations, if any at VA, that allow for that type of incubation and so Arches is in a unique position to create new technologies and new novel approaches to solving big problems. And then the next step to that is moving the work from Arches out into the enterprise, as you called it out. So for instance, the system of engagement where the actual clinicians interact with patients, the model needs to find its way there and we can't do that in a way that disturbs the current workflow that the clinicians have. We need to be able to bring the model to where the clinician is, have those recommendations, probabilities and predictions surfaced to the clinician in a way that is precise to their existing workflow. They need it at the time they need it. Arches itself is not delivering that part of it. It's more like the place where the innovation happens and the incubation really occurs and then it's about taking this container, really, and moving out to other systems that are already deployed out to the hospitals, the edge, and in the cloud. >> And the federated governance occurs in Arches or elsewhere? >> It happens across the continuum. It's starting in Arches. the clinical validation that happens there is wickedly important, because the clinicians need to know that what they're working with is actually legit. And so when they know that the researchers and the clinicians who are involved in that incubation period have done their work, they can feel confident with the recommendations they're getting from the machine learning models that are getting deployed to one of them. >> So many questions, so little time. What's the business impact? How would you describe that? >> For me, it's an emotional impact. People have a sense of, "I have a place to develop a solution and I can get in there quick, and I can test out an idea. I could potentially partner with an external partner or if I have the talents and skills to do it myself." It's empowering all of those innovators who have great ideas to work together to test and develop and validate solutions, and they're not waiting years to get the idea off the ground. >> Amazing. >> Go ahead, bring it. >> Is Arches open source? >> Arches is a platform and it has open source component. So that the underlying infrastructure of technology is open source. >> Why was it important to you that this be built on an open source platform? >> It's important for us that we not marry ourself to any one technology and that we allow for, as much as possible, transparency and many different tools and the right tools for the right solution. So we didn't want to find ourselves connected to only one way of doing things. We want to have versatility to have the right tool for the right problem at the right time. >> I'm so sorry, we're out of time. This is so interesting and I really appreciate you here guys, coming on and sharing your insights for theCUBE audience. All right, keep it right there. This is Dave Vellante for Paul Gillin. We're in day two of Red Hat Summit 2022. You're watching theCUBE. (digital pulsing music) >> Due to the pandemic, the federal government declared a public health emergency, which created an urgency for healthcare coverage. >> One of the biggest-

>>To the Seaport in Boston, Massachusetts, everybody's buzzing. The Bruins are playing tonight. They tied it up. The Celtics tied it up last night. We're excited. We don't talk about the red Sox. Red Sox are getting struggles, but you know, we have good distractions. Paul goer is here. He's the president and chief executive officer at red hat and also a Boston fan of great to see, of course, you too. >>Nice to see you guys, you know, it's been a, it's been a while. >><laugh> yeah, we saw you, you know, online and virtually for a couple of years there, but, uh, you know, we've been doing red hat summit for a long, long time. Yeah, of course we were talking earlier. It's just much more intimate, kind of a VIP event, a few more suit jackets here. You know, I got my tie on, so I don't get too much grief. I usually get grief when I wear a tie of red hat summit, but it's a different format this year. Compressed keynotes. Your keynote was great. The new normal, sometimes we call it the new abnormal <laugh>, uh, but you know, how do you feel? >>I, I, I, I feel great. First of all, you know, combination today, virtual audience in, in house audience here today. I think we're gonna see a lot of that in the future. I mean, we designed the event around that and I, I think it, I think it played pretty well. Kudos, kudos to our team. You're right. It's, it's, it's a bit more intimate even the way it was set up, but those are the conversations we like having with our customers and our partners, much more partner centric, uh, as well right now, as well. >>You know, we were talking about, you know, hybrid cloud. It was kind of, you know, it was a good marketing term. And, but now it's, it's, it's become the real thing. I've said many times the, the definition of cloud is changing. It's expanding it's no, the cloud is no longer this remote set of services, you know, somewhere up in the cloud, it's on prem connecting to a cloud across clouds, out to the edge and you need capabilities that work everywhere. And that's what red hat did. The market's just swimming toward you. >>Yeah. I mean, you look at it, you know, I was, uh, you know, if you look at it, you know, the clouds are powerful unto themselves, right? The clouds are powerful unto themselves. They're all different. Right? And that that's, I mean, hardware vendors were, were similar, but different, same thing. You need that connective tissue across, across the whole thing. I mean, as I said, in my keynote today, I remember talking to some of our CIOs and customers 10 years ago and they said, we're going 90% of our apps tomorrow to one cloud. And we knew that wasn't practical because of course the clouds are built from Linux. So we knew it was underneath the hood and, and what's happened. It's taken some time, but as they started to get into that, they started to see, well, maybe one cloud's more suited for one application than the other, these apps. You may have to keep on premise, but you know, what really exploded at the, the, the hybrid thing, the edge. Now they're putting things at the edge, the GM announcement tell you, I know you're gonna talk to Francis. Yeah, yeah. Later. I mean, that's, that's a mini data center in, in every cloud, but that's still under the purview of the CIO, you know? So, so, so that's what hybrid's all about is tying all those pieces together, cuz it got more powerful, but it also more complex. >>You mentioned being the connective tissue, but we don't hear as much talk about multi-cloud seems to me, as we used to this conference has been all about hybrid cloud. You don't really talk about multi-cloud. How important is that to the red hat strategy, being that consistent layer? >>It's probably my mistake or our mistake because multi's more prevalent and more important than just hybrid alone. I mean, hybrid hybrid started from on-premise to one part to any one particular cloud. That was the, the first thought of hybrid. But as I said, as, as, as um, some of the cloud providers became so big, um, every, every CIO I talked to, whether they know whether they know it or not most do are in a multi environment for a whole bunch of reasons, right. You know, one cloud provider might be better in a different part of the world. And another one cloud provider might have a better service than another. Some just don't like to be stuck to one it's it's really hybrid multi. We should, we should train ourselves to every time we say hybrid, say multi, because that's really, that's really what it is. It, I think that happened overnight with, with Microsoft, you know, with Microsoft they've, they've, they've really grown over the last few years, so has Amazon for that matter. But Microsoft really coming up is what really made it a, a high, a multi world. >>Microsoft's remarkable what, what they're doing. But I, I, I have a different thinking on this. I, I heard Chuck Whitten last week at, at the Dell conference he used, he said used the phrase a multicloud, uh, by default versus multi-cloud by design. And I thought that was pretty interesting because I've said that multi-cloud is largely multi-vendor, you know? And so hybrid has implications, right? We, we bring and a shesh came up with a new term today. Metacloud I use Supercloud I like Metacloud better because something's happening, Paul. It feels like there's this layer abstraction layer that the underlying complexity is hidden. Think about OpenShift. Yeah. I could buy, I could get OpenShift for free. Yeah. I mean, I could, and I could cobble together and stitch together at 13, 15 dozens of different services and replicate, but I don't, I don't want that complexity. I want you to hide that complexity. I want, I'd rather spend money on your R and D than my engineering. So something's changing. It feels like >>You buy that. I totally buy that. I mean, you know, I, I, I'm gonna try to not make this sound like a marketing thing because it's not, not fair enough. Right. I mean, I'm engineer at heart, you know that, so, >>Okay. >>I really look to what we're trying to do is we're building a hybrid multi cloud. I mean that we, I look at us as a cloud provider spanning the hybrid multi all the way out to the edge world, but we don't have the data centers in the back. Like the cloud providers do in and by that is you're seeing our products being consumed more like cloud services because that's what our customers are demanding. Our, our products now can be bought out of the various marketplaces, et cetera. You're seeing different business models from us. So, uh, you're seeing, uh, committed spend, for example, like the cloud providers where a customer will buy so much up front and sort of just work it down. You're seeing different models on how they're consumed, consumption, based pricing. These, these are all things that came from the cloud providers and customers buying like that. >>They now want that across their entire environment. They don't wanna buy differently on premise or in one cloud and they don't wanna develop differently. They don't wanna operate differently. They don't wanna have to secure it differently. Security's the biggest thing with, with our, with our customers, because hybrid's powerful, but you no longer have the, you know, your security per perimeter, no longer the walls of your data center. You know, you're, you're responsible as a CIO. You're responsible for every app. Yeah. No matter where it's running, if that's the break in point, you're responsible for that. So that's why we've done things like, you know, we cried stack rocks. We've, we've built it into the container Kubernetes platform that spans those various footprints because you no longer can just do perimeter security because the perimeter is, is very, very, very large right now >>Diffuse. One of the thing on the multi-cloud hyper skills, I, I, red hat's never been defensive about public cloud. You, I think you look at the a hundred billion dollars a year in CapEx spend that's a gift to the industry. Not only the entire it industry, but, but the financial services companies and healthcare companies, they can build their own hybrid clouds. Metacloud super clouds taking advantage of that, but they still need that connective tissue. And that's where >>We products come in. We welcome our customers to go to, to the public cloud. Um, uh, look, it's it's. I said a long time ago, we said a long time it was gonna be a hybrid. Well, I should have said multi anybody said hybrid, then it's gonna be a hybrid world. It is. And it doesn't matter if it's a 20, 80, 80, 20, 40, 60, 60, 40. It's not gonna be a hundred percent anywhere. Yeah. And, and so in that, in that definition, it's a hybrid multi world. >>I wanna change the tune a little bit because I've been covering IBM for 40 years and seen a lot of acquisitions and see how they work. And usually it follows the same path. There's a commitment to leaving the acquire company alone. And then over time that fades, the company just becomes absorbed. Same thing with red hat. It seems like they're very much committed to, to, to leaving you alone. At least they said that upon the acquisition, have they followed through on that promise? >>I have to tell you IBM has followed through on every commitment they've made, made to us. I mean, I, I owe it, I owe a lot of it to Arvin. Um, he was the architect of the deal, right. Um, we've known each other for a long time. Um, he's a great guy. Um, he, uh, he, he believes in it. It's not, he's not just doing it that way because he thinks, um, something bad will happen if he doesn't, he's doing it that way. Cuz he believes in that our ecosystem is what made us. I mean, I mean, even here it's about the partners in the ecosystem. If you look at what made REL people think what made red hat as a company was support, right. Support's really important. Small piece of the value proposition life cycle supports certainly their life cycle a 10 year life cycle just came out of a, a, a customer conference asking about the life cycle and could we extend it to 15 years? You know? Um, the ecosystem is probably the most important part of, of, of, of the, of the overall value proposition. And Arvin knows in IBM knows that, you know, we have to be neutral to be able to do everything the same for all of our ecosystem partners. Some that are IBM's competitors, even. So, >>So we were noticing this morning, I mean, aside from a brief mention of power PC and the IBM logo during, at one point, there was no mention of IBM during the keynote sessions this morning. Is that intentional? Or is that just >>No, no, it it's, it's not intentional. I mean, I think that's part of, we have our strategy to drive and we're, we're driving our, our strategy. We, we, we IBM great partner. We look at them as a partner just as we do our, our many other partners and we won't, you know, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do something with our products, um, for I with IBM that we wouldn't offer to our, our entire ecosystem. >>But there is a difference now, right? I don't know these numbers. Exactly. You would know though, but, but pre 2019 acquisition red hat was just, I think north of 3 billion in revenue growing at maybe 12% a year. Something like that, AR I mean, we hear on the earnings calls, 21% growth. I think he's publicly said you're north of 5 billion or now I don't know how much of that consulting gets thrown in. IBM likes to, you know, IBM math, but still it's a much bigger business. And, and I wonder if you could share with us, obviously you can't dig into the numbers, but have you hired more people? I would imagine. I mean, sure. Like what's been different from that standpoint in terms of the accelerant to your >>Business. Yeah. We've been on the same hiring cycle percentage wise as, as we, we always were. I mean, I think the best way to characterize the relationship and where they've helped is, um, Arvin, Arvin will say, IBM can be opinionated on red hat, but not the other way around <laugh>. So, so what that, what that means is they had a lot of, they had, they had a container based Linux platform. Yeah, right, right. They, they had all their, they were their way of moving to the cloud was that when we came in, they actually stopped that. And they standardized on OpenShift across all of their products. We're now the vehicle that brings the blue software products to the hybrid cloud. We are that vehicle that does it. So I think that's, that's how, that's how they, they look about it. I mean, I know, I mean in IBM consulting, I know, I know they have a great relationship with Microsoft of course. >>Right. And so, so that's, that's how to really look at it. They they're opinionated on us where we not the other way around, but that, but they're a great partner. And even if we're at two separate companies, we'd do be doing all the same things we're doing with them. Now, what they do do for us can do for us is they open a lot of doors in many cases. I mean, IBM's been around for over a hundred years. So in many cases, they're in, in, in the C-suite, we, we may be in the C suite, but we may be one layer down, one, two layers down or something. They, they can, they help us get access. And I think that's been a, a part of the growth as well as is them talking into their, into, into their >>Constituents. Their consulting's one of the FA if not the fastest growing part of their business. So that's kind of the tip of the spear for application modernization, but enough on IBM you said something in your keynote. That was really interesting to me. You said, you, you, you didn't use the word hardware Renaissance, but that my interpretation was you're expecting the next, you know, several years to be a hardware Renaissance. We, we certainly have done relationships with arm. You mentioned Nvidia and Intel. Of course, you've had relationships with Intel for a long time. And we're seeing just the spate of new hardware developments, you know, does hardware matter? I'll ask you, >>Oh, oh, I mean the edge, as I said, you're gonna see hardware innovation out in the edge, software innovation as well. You know, the interesting part about the edge is that, you know, obviously remade red hat. What we did with REL was we did a lot of engineering work to make every hardware architecture when, when it was, when, when the world was just standalone servers, we made every hardware architecture just work out of the box. Right? And we did that in such, because with an open source development model. So embedded in our psyche, in our development processes is working upstream, bringing it downstream 10 years, support all of that kind of thing. So we lit up all that hardware. Now we go out to the edge, it's a whole new, different set of hardware innovation out at the edge. We know how to do that. >>We know how to, we know how to make hardware, innovation safe for the customer. And so we're bringing full circle and you have containers embedded in, in Linux and REL right now as well. So we're actually with the edge, bringing it all full circle back to what we've been doing for 20 plus years. Um, on, on the hardware side, even as a big part of the world, goes to containers and hybrid in, in multi-cloud. So that's why we're so excited about, about, about the edge, you know, opportunity here. That's, that's a big part of where hybrid's going. >>And when you guys talk about edge, I mean, I, I know a lot of companies will talk about edge in the context of your retail location. Okay. That's fine. That's cool. That's edge or telco that that's edge. But when you talk about, um, an in vehicle operating system, right. You know, that's to me the far edge, and that's where it gets really interesting, massive volumes, different architectures, both hardware and software. And a lot of the data may stay. Maybe it doesn't even get persisted. May maybe some comes back to the club, but that's a new >>Ballgame. Well, think about it, right? I mean, you, if you listen, I think you, right. My talk this morning, how many changes are made in the Linux kernel? Right? You're running in a car now, right? From a safety perspective. You wanna update that? I mean, look, Francis talked about it. You'll talk to Francis later as well. I mean, you know, how many, how many in, in your iPhone world Francis talked about this this morning, you know, they can, they can bring you a whole new world with software updates, the same in the car, but you have to do it in such a way that you still stay with the safety protocols. You're able to back things out, things like that. So it's open source, but getting raw upstream, open source and managing itself yourself, I just, I'm sorry. It takes a lot of experience to be able to be able to do those kinds of things. So it's secure, that's insecure. And that's what that's, what's exciting about it. You look at E the telco world look where the telco world came from in the telco world. It was a hardware stack from the hardware firmware operating system, every service, whether it was 9 1, 1 or 4, 1, 1 was its own stack. Yep. In the 4g, 3g, >>4g >>Virtualized. Now, now it's all software. Yeah. Now it's all software all the way out to the cell tower. So now, so, so now you see vendors out there, right? As an application, as a container based application, running out, running in the base of a cell tower, >>Cell tower is gonna be a little mini data >>Center. Yeah, exactly. Because we're in our time here asking quickly, because you've been at red hat a long time. You, you, you, uh, architected a lot of the reason they're successful is, is your responsibility. A lot of companies have tried to duplicate the red hat model, the, the service and support model. Nobody has succeeded. Do you think anybody ever will or will red hat continue to be a unicorn in that respect? >>No, I, I, I think, I think it will. I think open source is making it into all different parts of technology. Now I have to tell you the, the reason why we were able to do it is we stayed. We stayed true to our roots. We made a decision a long time ago that we weren't gonna put a line, say everything below the line was open and above the line was closed. Sometimes it's hard sometimes to get a differentiation with the competition, it can be hard, but we've stayed true to that. And I, to this day, I think that's the thing that's made us is never a confusion on if it's open or not. So that forces us to build our business models around that as well. But >>Do you have a differentiated strategy? Talk about that. What's your what's your differentiation >>Are, are, well, I mean, with the cloud, a differentiation is that common cloud platform across I differentiate strategy from an open source perspective is to, to sort make open source consumable. And, and it's even more important now because as Linux Linux is the base of everything, there's not enough skills out there. So even, even a container platform like open source op like OpenShift, could you build your own? Certainly. Could you keep it updated? Could you keep it updated without breaking all the applications on top? Do you have an ecosystem around it? It's all of those things. It was, it was the support, the, the, the hardening the 10 year to predictability the ecosystem. That was, that was, that is the secret. I mean, we even put the secret out as open. >>Yeah, <laugh> right. Free, like a puppy, as they say. All right, Paul, thanks so much for coming back in the cubes. Great to see you face to face. Nice to see you guys get it. All right. Keep it right there. Dave Valante for Paul Gill, you're watching the cubes coverage of red hat summit, 2022 from Boston. Be right back.

(tubular bells chiming) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage, AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE. We're here, get all the action wall-to-wall coverage. The keynotes with the new CEO, Adam Leschi just happened. A lot of action wall-to-wall coverage for days, and we'd love cloud computing because it impacts business. We love all that, but when it impact sports, we love it even more because it can relate to it. You can see the two great guests here from the NHL Formula 1. We got David Lehanski the EVP of business development and innovation at the NHL, Rob Smedley, director of data systems at Formula 1. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me today in theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> So obviously formula one we know is very data driven. Pun intended, NHL has a lot of action going on as well with innovation streaming, et cetera. Let's get into it. You're both Amazon customers, right? We'll start with you. Formula 1, big partnership with AWS. What's that about? how you guys look at this cloud as you guys go to the next level? Cause you're under a lot of pressure with the data, from the cars and standards and all that good stuff. What's up. >> What's going on? >> Well, I mean, you know, it started probably four or five years ago with the acquisition of Liberty media and formula 1, and there was a real drive towards data. There was a real drive towards, you know, unearthing all of the data that we've got, you know, formula 1, arguably probably generates the most data, this most sports data of any sport on the planet. You know, we have car telemetry data, timing data, metadata, image data, you know, we own all the video data, and the audio data of driver radio, tire data, weather data, you put all that together. You got to, you know, a real massive data. And it was just about trying to unearth that and, and engage the fans more. And that's where the partnership with AWS come from. >> And the competitiveness in formula one I know is really high. You got a lot of smart people on these teams looking for an edge. And I know it's like, it's a whole new world with data as things get exposed. So I got to ask you, what is your job? Are you there to like to corral the data that kind of set standards? What's your role? >> Well, my role is essentially, to use the data at central league level, if you want, for all the franchises, that's all 20 drivers, within the 10 teams to try to, you know, use that data in whatever way possible, whether it's the new car or whether it's the F1 insights powered by AWS to try to engage the fans more. You know, we've understood that data, is really important to tell the story of Formula 1. And it's really important to reach different demographics as well. The younger demographics, the young, the gen Zedders is, you know, those types of guys, it's really important to get to them, because you can condense and at one hour 45 race down to five minutes, right. Which is what they want. So this has been a really important step for us. And a really important part of that journey has been the enablement. >> And I can see the whole e-sports thing I could see after a race. Okay. Now the fans race amongst themselves, as the technology simulation gets better, only headroom there. So to speak. >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's what we're, you know, that's probably the next generation of what we want to do with the data is we want to make it much more interactive. We're already giving, you know, through the insights and through, you know, the way that, we're trying to tell stories with the different data assets we're already trying to do that, in a much more proactive way of telling the story. The next level of that. is completely immersive, is interactive. And that's what we call the 21st drivers. So there's 20, formula 1 drivers. Right. But, we want to build systems using the data and gamification where you can embed yourself and immerse yourself in that, in the races, the 21st driver and race against the other guys on a Sunday afternoon. >> Awesome. Dave, let's get to the NHL National Hockey League. You guys are doing a lot of good stuff. You're the EVP of innovation and what's going on over there. How do you see the cloud helping you guys innovate. what's on your agenda and what's your role? >> Wow. I don't know if we have enough time, but at the highest level, you know, we're trying to expand and enhance the way we produce and present our game to the world. You know, our sport, we have some similarities, but there's a lot of differences based on the uniqueness of the sport. Statistics, hadn't really been a big part of the National Hockey League in the way people consume the game. I always say, you know, goaltenders have two statistics that have been used to evaluate them. And they were the same ones that were used to evaluate them back in 1917. So almost again a hundred years where it hasn't really evolved that much, but we think there's so much there that can really enrich and transform the game. So we're trying to partner with AWS and the best technology companies in the world to figure out how we can start to capture that data and turn it into meaningful content and experiences that allow fans to go a little bit deeper and a little bit broader. >> Yeah, I can see the data being used for also seeing what the NFL is doing a lot with the safety. Hits are getting harder and faster in the NHL. I mean, the collisions, the equipment, everyone is going faster. That's a big safety issue too. Isn't it? >> There is a safety component too. And it, look, that is one of the unique things about our sports. Both of us are speed involved. The speed though, for us, it's not just on the ice, it's also the pace of play, right? So when you have a stoppage, it's typically 10 or 15 seconds long. So there's not a lot of time to integrate data, to tell stories, to build and graphics and visualizations. So the first phase for us was to build the tracking system that could capture the positional, the positions of the puck and the players throughout the course of every game. And that's generating a massive amount of new data. Now we're trying to add video to that data so we could start to use it to create entirely new experiences. >> What are you guys thinking about from a fan experience as you look at the analytics. Are they interested in more like the, where the puck is, how fast people are going, what are some of the analytics sharing? >> So it depends, Right? So from a fan standpoint, you know, avid fans really want to, they want to go deep and they want understand controlled zone entries and like, you know, things that are really inherent to, you know, the core factors for determining outcome. Casual fans, they like just on knowing speed, right? How fast is the puck moving? How fast are the players moving. Before we had the system, we weren't able to produce it. Before we had AWS, you won't be able to produce that in real time and overlay it onto a game. So we could go even deeper when it comes to players and coaches and media partners, but the ability to build a solution that works in real time to give them the data and the video that they can use to tell those stories is born from AWS. >> And that brings up a great point. I'd love to ask both of you, if you can answer this question about the fan expectations. One of the big trends coming out of this re-invent this year as cloud is creating more capabilities, but the users and the consumers have new expectations. They want it on mobile, they want the highlights, they want everything. They want the data, there are data junkies. They want everything, cause they're immersing, into the experience with multiple touchpoints. TV, app. Whatever. >> I think that's right. And I think that it's up to, you know, as David's just saying that the two sports here with a lot of similarities and you can see that we're both on the same journey and that's because it's been driven in the end by the consumers, it's been driven by our customers. And, I think that now we're on, you know, what I would call the data flywheel, where there's a lot of inertia and it's just getting stronger and stronger and stronger. And this was, if we go back say three, four years when we started the partnership with AWS and we started to get really deep into the data and understand, you know, what the objectives of this whole exercise were, we always knew that there'd be a point where it started to build a lot of momentum and have a lot of inertia and that's, what's happening now. There's a real thirst for it, right? And it's not just, you know, even the naysayers, you know, even the people that kind of looked at it and went, well, why are you filling my screen with data exactly the same as what Dave says, you know, since you know, the goaltender since 1917, you've used the same two stats to evaluate that particular player. In formula 1 it's been exactly the same. So we started to introduce stuff which had been the same state as core for 70 years. And they say, well, what's all this about. Now, those people can't live without that. Right? It's become, a key part of the broadcast. >> And it creates new products, like things like Netflix, who would've thought a series would be on Formula 1, a soap opera for formula 1 in behind the scenes, driving to survive has been quite an acceleration for fan base. I mean, techies in Silicon valley and all around the world have told us like, hey, you know what? That exposes the nerdiness of Formula 1. Kind of cool. So who would have thought, I mean, there's going to be shows on this whole other level. >> I think, another point to add it is about increasing your distribution points and getting your content out to as many people as possible through as many platforms as possible. But I think in addition to that, it's really about, Rob started to touch on this personalization and customization. What can you do within those platforms to give fans the ability to sort of create their own experience? Right? So data highlights, huge, huge, huge level of importance. >> I think community is going to be a big part of this too. As you start to see the data creates more interactions and more progression, if you will. Community, I'm a Bruins fan in California. There's not a lot of Bruins fans, mostly sharks fans, but I got to get online. Where am I? Where's my tribe. I want to hang, that's not just on Twitter. >> Yeah >> So there's a whole another level coming. How do you guys see community developing in your sports? >> I think the community is the biggest factor in all of this. Right? And it's kind of bringing together. It's a global sports community, first and foremost, but then you've got these pockets. So you've got NHL, NFL, you've got formula 1 and they're all gaining popularity, but it's all through really everybody being on this same journey. Everybody's on this same journey of involving tech in the sport of revolutionizing their particular sport. And it's building this global community. I mean, In formula 1, we've got a billion fans worldwide, but that's growing, it's growing every single year, but it's only growing because we're starting now to get to that younger demographic, formerly one could never get to the demographic, you know, formula 1 fans looked like us, but now it's starting to really improve our system. >> The virtualization of this hybrid world we're living in opens up the doors for more access. >> Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's the key point here. And again, they've touched on it. It's the personalization. It's using data and platforms and packages to personalize somebody's engagement with their particular sport. >> I got a couple of questions from the fan base, I knew you guys were coming on. I want to get to you , first, Rob, how has F1 been using Amazon and the cloud to develop the new 2022 race car? >> Well, I mean, it, I would say it's no exaggeration to say Amazon technology enabled, was the key enabler in as being able to design that 2022 car, you know, we designed it in a virtual environment called computational fluid dynamics. You know, the simulations, when we were first running design iterations, were taking something like 40 hours with when we started running it on the EC2, you know, spinning up 7,000 calls, something like that. We got that down to seven hours, manageable. We designed the whole new car. >> Awesome. On the NHL, the question here for you, is that okay, how is the young generation coming into the game? What's changed with the innovation that's impacting, how the games played and how the young guns are coming up? Is there any in technology enabling that? >> Sure. You know, so we're looking at the type of content that younger fans are gravitating to, obviously highlights and dance games, but we talked about it before the ability to see what they want to see with regard to that. So, you know, where we're trying to get to is where you could watch a game and ultimately decide whether or not you want to turn on a right rail of real-time statistics for your favorite player, for your favorite team, for a specific event, whether or not you want to turn on the ability to network with your friends across social platforms, whether or not you want to turn on the betting functionality, whether or not you want to turn on the game functionality. Right? So this is how the younger generation really wants to consume the data, like sort of, they want to see what they want to see, when and how they want to see it. So we're working on that. And then there's everything that goes beyond that. The world of NFTs and VR and AR and alternate forms of content distribution, none of that would be capable or available if not for the ability to capture process and distribute data and video in an aggregate in real time. >> You know, I really think we're onto something so new here. And if you guys are really kind of illustrating the whole point of how being in person, the old model of physical, I don't have to go into arena to watch hockey or go watch formula 1, and hopefully it's on TV. Maybe it's got coverage here and there, but now with hybrid, you can integrate the experiences from the physical in-person where the asset is. >> Absolutely. >> And to virtual and just open up completely new hybrid use cases. I mean, this is brand new. There's no standards. >> Not, exactly. And that's something that we're really starting to look at, which is the event of the future. You know? So how would you bring, how do you mismatch? How would you bring that whole data experience and that whole broadcast experience to the actual event, the live event, and how would you bring the live event to somebody's front room? It's the hybrid model, right? And this is definitely next generation of how we're using the data. We're working with AWS. We're calling it event of the future. It's really, really exciting. I mean, you can imagine going there, to a formula 1 race, you're sat in the stands. You're no longer, you know, watching a car pass every few seconds and wondering what's going on. You've now got AR, VR that you can kind of put up and lay-up across what's going on the track. >> Well, a lot of people would love to get you guys' reaction to this comment online. Cause this is big, I see a lot of naysayers out there because they're so locked into the business model of the physical location. There's a lot of investment in events like this, wants me to buy tickets and show up. So they call it a one-way door here in the industry, they don't want to go through that one way door, but I'm saying that door has already been passed. It's like you're in this hybrid world is here. If you don't get out in front of it, you're going to be toast. So the question is, how do you guys think about this when you talk about the business model of experience? Cause you have to get in there and it's not super great right now on virtual. It could be better. It has to get better. So it's a balance. How do you guys talk about that in your respective fields to educate the potential? I won't say naysayers, but yeah. >> Yeah no, no, no. So we believe it wholeheartedly. You know, when you think about the inner arena experience, there's a lot of infrastructure that needs to be in place to be able to deliver those types of experiences to fans, while they're in the building, we wholeheartedly believe that the people who are paying the most to see our games should get the best possible experience. So there should be no replay, they don't get, there should be no game that they can't access, no application that they couldn't have on their phone, but you need to have, you know, fairly advanced wireless in the arena infrastructures in place. You need to have a lot of cloud infrastructure and services there. So, you know, that's why we're leveraging Kinesis and SageMaker and AWS elemental services to get all of it condensed, operating in the cloud and distributed. So if you're a fan at a game, they're 18,000 other people, like you trying to access a mobile phone to place a bet on a real-time event that just happened, you can actually do it, but a lot needs to go into that. >> Yeah, that's really good insight because what you're pointing out is is that the physical location is the first party asset. That's the key. You build on that, invest in that and then feed it out into the next world and then figure that out. Do you agree with that. >> Absolutely. 100 percent correct. Well, 100 percent agree with everything that David just said. And we've got probably, you know, an even bigger challenge because we've got these 20 sites where we lift and shift 20, 23 races, you know, all round the world where we lift and shift every couple of weeks, and they're not arenas either. They're, you know, these are huge sites. These are you know, five, six kilometer by five, six kilometer square sites. So trying to do everything that David just said in that space, we can open it. >> Yeah, we just turn the lights off, it's over, he's got to pack it all up. >> The private 5G is going to totally help. You can run drones and have full blanket coverage over the location. That's good. That's good stuff. Final question for you guys on data, because I think this is something that we've been kind of talking about on theCUBE over the past year, we see open source software has become a huge success. Do you guys see opening up the data to your fan base and seeing e-sports races in formula 1, is just going crazy. Everyone loves it. It's not there yet but the equipment having your own car in your living room, but it's close, pretty close, it's there. Opening up the data, how do you see that potential? Because there are people who want to maybe code on top of it. How do you guys view that? >> Well, I think it, has to, I mean, Dave, again, touched on this earlier when he talked about, you know, the difference between the casual and the avid. The avid, you'll never, ever satisfy the average thirst for data, right. They want to do what I did and sit on a pit wall and manage a grand Prix team. And that's great, you know, it shouldn't just be for a privilege, you know, 10, 20 people in the world to do that. We should be able to give everybody that experience because we have the technology and the ability and the know how to be able to do that. And that's where, you know, again, partnership with AWS, where we're talking about something called the virtual pit wall. So, you know, the pit stands where it's kind of like the mission control. We want to be able to bring that to the average. And it's just getting deeper and deeper layers where you can set up your bespoke environment. You can set it up just as if you were a race engineer or a team strategist, one of those guys, and you can just get deeper and deeper. And then you start to lay over that. You start to build your own models. We bring in simulation into that whole area. And, you know, it's exactly the same as what you have in the teams. You just go deeper and deeper and deeper. >> What's it like to be on the pit wall there, managing teams. what's it. (men laughing) >> Hmm scary sometimes >> Nerve wrecking. >> Nerve-wracking, I mean, I talked about, you know, the gen Zedders who want the, you know, a two hour race to pass in five minutes, it passes in five minutes. Cause there's so much going on. You know, it's kind of like being the coach or the, you know, the football manager, you know, you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to make the right decisions. You've got to, you know, you've got to make decisions in split seconds. Everybody's an expert 10 seconds after the decision has been made. It's that type of thing, but it's great fun, you know. >> I can see virtual Formula 1 being a hot total hit because with all the data and now autonomous vehicles, you can almost have a collective kind of team approach, like swapping out AI in the cars in real time from the virtual pit. >> Yeah. And again, you know, I'm just going to name check deep racer because you know, AWS deep racer, you know, we formula 1, and AWS deep racer. We did an activation about a year back in the first lockdown, in the first COVID lockdown. So we took a couple of formula 1 drivers, Daniel Ricardo being one of them. And then we built out this deep racer platform and we're trying to look at how we can bring that more, you know, more together. So you've got this virtual, sorry, this AI car, this autonomous car, and you've got formula 1. And how do we merge those two worlds together? And again, that's just trying to immerse people more in the experience. >> Alright, final question. What's the coolest thing you got going on in each of your respective innovation fields with AWS? What would you highlight your favorite innovation or coolest thing you're doing? >> Well, I can't tell you about the coolest, right. That's for sure. Look, I just think what we're doing with AWS with regard to AIML around data and statistics analytics, based on what I said earlier, the evolution of statistics and analytics and hockey really hasn't taken hold, we're there now. The ability to really take a game that's has so much volatility, and we're the only professional teams sport that has personnel changes occurring in life play. So you never really know who's on the ice and the ability now to deliver real-time graphics and visualizations in the broadcast based on movements that had just played within milliseconds. And, we're starting to do that today with shot and save analytics with AWS. So where that can go in the future is really, what's probably the most exciting because it'll totally transform the way fans consumer our game. >> The NHS has always been on the cutting edge on the tech. Been following you guys for years, congratulations. Rob, the coolest thing you're working on, from Amazon, that's cool, and in formula 1 that's in your plate right now. >> Do you know what, I mean, there's so much going on at the minute. It's really difficult to choose any one thing. I think the whole partnership it's everything that we wanted it to be that, you know, the whole way that we're moving data forward and where we're revolutionizing this sport in a lot of ways, you know, sport has sat still for a long time. And to go through that digital transformation, you know, with Amazon and you know, in all the various areas that we're working on, I just think it's all, you know, it's all really, really cool. I mean, it's just moving forward at such a pace. Now. >> If you don't mind me asking why I got you here on the whole data thing, I'm just thinking about if I was on a team, I'd be like, okay, there's a whole new wild west. It's this arbitrage of data, we'll get over on the other team. Do you have to watch out, do you guys talk about like watching teams actually, I mean, it's actually innovative that they can get an edge, but an unfair advantage if they actually had used the data, is there like discussion around, like who can use the data, which teams? >> Of course. I mean, you know, when you get down to the franchises, each team can only use its individual data. You know, that's where we have key insight up at the league level because we've got, you know, a subset of all of the teams data. So we can kind of see everything that's going on. >> And watch out for the hackers coming in and get that data. >> Oh, well, alright, we've got pretty good security. >> Guys, thanks for coming on. I love the sports angle on this. It's really awesome. I think this is a great example of how cloud and digital lifestyle is coming together. The tech integration with the fan experience and the business models are super compelling, and I think that's illustration to just every other business. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Awesome. >> Thank you. >> Okay so theCUBE's coverage here at AWS re:Invent. I'm John furrier, your host in theCUBE. You're watching the leader in event tech covers theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soul music)

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering Micron Insight 2019 to You by Micron. >>We're back to Pier 27 in lovely San Francisco, Everybody. I'm Dave a lot with my co host, David Floy Er and you're watching the Cube, the leader and live tech coverage. Evan cursed Ellis here. He's a social digital influencer. First time in the Cube. Evan, Great to see you. >>Thanks for having me. First time's the best. >>You Very well. And it is beautiful. Out him in October is the best month in San Francisco. Way better way warmer than July. I mean, you live out here. Holy cow. All right, let's get right into it. You're just fresh off of mobile work. World Congress down in L. A. >>This morning. Yeah, five g on the brain's >>s. So what do we need to know about five g? You >>know, I think my big takeaway as an industry observer is that five g Israel, and it's now I mean, we've seen 5 10 years, maybe of hype, an expectation and marketing buzz and even spin. But I think we're now in the business of practical deployments, scaling rollouts of networks and that's, you know, as a industry observers, quite exciting. >>So what is five g mean for the average user? I mean, is it gonna be like going from dial up toe, high speed Internet or, you know, it's gonna be interesting. >>The average user, I think we'll experience, you know, like a 10 x increase in their current experience on mobile in terms of uploads and downloads and speed and Leighton see, And that kind of thing, which is super exciting, it's it's gonna blow people's mind. >>An ex stoked to get a 10 extra. When can I get this? >>It's when and it's where, right? I mean, if you look at how these networks are evolving, there are hundreds of thousands of small cells of base stations that have to be deployed naturally to get five G ubiquitous across the country. So it's it's when it's where it's how. But we're here. We're at the starting point and look for the next years and months ahead to see that riel attraction. >>If I look now when I travel around the country, I still have four G. I still have three g. I still have edge. I have a ll the old ones are still there, and it's taken forever, even just to get to 40. So isn't lesson. Isn't the rollout of this going to take a long time ago or 10 year horizon? >>I think, to get ubiquitous coverage indoor, outdoor, suburban, urban, rural It's going to take 10 years. But if you look at those hot spots that generate a lot of activity, whether it's, you know, indoor coverage in the Enterprise, whether it's, you know, the Bruins playing in Boston Garden I mean those air where five G is really going to come into play first and then it's going to sort of go outside of those urban dense areas. >>You mean like the fan experience in the fan experience in the venue >>is huge? I mean, if you go to any you know, baseball, basketball, football game, you know what the experience is like Pretty pretty bad, right? So horrible. So those kind of hot spots are ripe for five g like right away today. Now, >>so by the way, David, sometimes I get five g on my that's right, and I feel like it's fake. Five years like HD ready. What's that all about? Well, you know, >>these networks evolve, and so the carriers are maximizing for G, including biggest speed on four G and five. Gene is really if overlay to these existing networks. And so, as you get your next Samsung, you know five G enabled devices. Apple next year comes out with a five G iPad. You'll then begin to use. The service is as you use your existing device. >>Can you help us understand the fundamental architecture of five G? My understanding is it's, you know, no basis more distributed on. That's part of the reason why it's taking so long to roll out. But what do we need to know about that E? >>I think it's a brand new editor interface. So if you think about the current radio on for G, they reinvented the wheel with five G, which means you can support a huge number of endpoints of I o. T devices of wearables of home access points. And so it enables almost a 10 to 100 ex war devices in terms of scale. So while the end user may think this is business as usual, what's really happening on the network side is pretty revolutionary And once the networks are primed and built and ready, what's gonna be happening on the device side is gonna be really extraordinary. You're talking about a K A video on a mobile device or augmented reality through in new kinds of glasses. And so it's sort of a chicken and a little bit. You know what? She's gonna come first, the network or the incredible new devices. So we're seeing now the network's being put in place for those wave of devices, >>which makes sense. Device manufactures don't want over rotate into something that's not quite. >>But if you look at the network, it's you have to have a lot of device is very close to each other. I in my area that all these the holdings holding these hearings about radiation, everything else like that, which is never, never really a problem unless you're underneath. >>Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of fun, you know, fear, uncertainty around five G. >>Yeah, and I'm just the practical thing. You gotta have all of these lots of these very close in the The exposure to having a gap of some sort is pretty high. >>Yeah, I think it's an issue of frequencies as well. Right now, we're seeing very high frequency five deployed for those dense urban suburban areas. We're going to Seymour Spectrum rolled out next year. The FCC is putting out new auction so you'll see lower bit rate five g rolled out for suburban and rural areas. So it's a It's a work in progress, but the fact that we have first devices first silicon for software first networks. It's kind of a big inflection >>point, but some bumps. I'm inferring this ATT the back end. It could be a lot of machine to machine communications, so that's kind of sets up this whole coyote and an edge discussion. And of course, that means more data. What can you tell us about how that's going to affect really the amount of data and how we use that data? >>The data explosion is extraordinary. I mean, we experience this as early adopters here at the table every day, and so no one's ever said, you know, my network is fast enough is good enough, secure enough. There's always that insatiable appetite now, given the connected world in which we live. And so it's not just the network speed it's the input output of the device. I mean, we have Leighton see that frankly, from these networks operates at the speed of the human brain, you know, in in milliseconds, in terms of input output on the network. And so that's really gonna change the user experience to when the way you do gaming or collaboration or video conferencing video calls and all these service is we use today will be much more tuned to how we live and work. >>So dial upto high speed Internet obvious Are you want? I'll update you say you go back. I'm also I know remember this stuff But that was a significant change. Obvious step change, really a step function. Exactly. But subsequent to that it was I could doom. Or but it was just so much more data and acts were flowing through the network that it really didn't change the experience a little bit. Maybe, actually, you know, be careful. I watched the Patriots game on the plane on the NFL app on the way out here, which could probably have done a year or two ago, but so that was that's goodness. But generally speaking, the experience is substantially similar. Will you said a 10 X before? Will the user actually see a difference like that kind of dial up to high speed step function? Or is it going to be sort of a slow roll? >>I think the user will see a big a big improvement because of the efficiencies of the network and the way in which data is kind of throttled and limited. Today, with three and four for G networks, I think more interestingly, is how businesses and enterprises and sm bees will consume. Five g. I mean, there are a lot of antiquated networks out there, whether it's legacy wired Network, D S. L. Whether it's, you know, crappy WiFi that we all experience in hotel rooms, five g has the opportunity to come in and really displace all of that legacy crap that that's in our networks and give users in those enterprises hotels, venues, a brand new experience. And when's the last time you had a bad hotel? WiFi, for the idea of, of getting rid of a legacy network and delivering those high speed service is from a public network. It's her Private networking is a really exciting opportunity for the carriers and, really, for the B two B enterprise. >>Well, the technology suppliers are pumped about their pumped and their >>look at their profitability, their revenue, their sales. Everything's up. >>Well, the thing is that that is, the carriers, like you say they have no choice but to remain competitive. They have to consume. They have to spend more >>on what a great time in the mobile industry. I mean to be a consumer of devices and service is, I mean, the consumers that businesses are winning in this march. >>So tell us about Mobile World Congress. What was the vibe? It was >>very buzzy. I mean, there were lots of Rhea World applications on display, whether wearable devices for health care and hospital T applications. There were examples of remote controlled autonomous shipping and autonomous trucking monitored, supervised with five G. There were examples of vehicle to vehicle communications for accident, safety purposes being deployed in the next generation of cars baked in, and so five. He's gotten very practical. Now it's like, Okay, we've built this network, we have silicon, we have software we have storage memory out of we deploy it so is very focused on deployment usage and an application. >>If you take that one of automotive, for example, if you're a god, health and life on your If you If you can't guarantee that you've got connectivity toe, what's the value wouldn't do? For example, wouldn't you prefer vehicle to vehicle direct communication, as opposed to going outside to some much faster? >>Exactly. Exactly. And there's a new technology called vehicle Be two extra people vehicle standards that are being baked so that that's not funny. It's based on the five of the family of standards, and so one of the technologies within the five G family is vehicle to vehicle. Qualcomm's doing some amazing work there. And once the automobile manufacturers baked that technology into cars, the car manufacturers can then build in vehicle avoidance, vehicle collision technology and so forth. >>So I'm worried that was some talk about a I right? I mean, lots of talk that mobile world Congress, you're gonna hear a lot about here. What about the ecosystem that's emerging to support five G? There's gotta be a whole value chain specialized chips. I mean, obviously, micron, you know? Yeah, you know, the >>whole supply chain has to come together and Micron powering all of these devices with memory and storage to the application developers to the O E ems to the network providers. And so that ecosystem is getting really baked, fully baked and and integrated. And that was on display at MWC, too. So all these things are coming together, and I think it's pretty exciting. As a long time skeptic like yourself. I saw some real world. >>I say, I'm excited about it. I just I'm just not holding my breath. Don't >>hold your breath. Not >>recommended weight. That's great, Evan. Thanks very much for coming in. Thanks so much. Appreciate your insights. Thanks so much. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. But it will be back from Micron Insight 2019 from San Francisco. You're watching the Cube?

>> from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering active eo 2019. Data driven you by activity. >> Welcome back to Boston, Everybody. Money >> belong here with my co host, a student of John >> Kerry's. Also here today You watching the Cuban leader and on the ground tech coverage. This is day one of active fio 19 data driven content Conference hashtag data driven 19 red cara minuses. Here is the senior vice president of fantasy Sports A draftkings Greg. Thanks for coming on. What a cool title. >> Yeah, it's It's, you know, I was joking with my wife. Anytime you could be working fantasy sports, it's a great place to be. Everybody's a little bit jealous. >> So the formula is easy, right? Offer big giant prizes and everybody comes And that's all there is suing. Anybody can come >> in. I just have the dream job right now. >> So hugely competitive market. You guys, you become the >> leader. We were in the radio. Check out your websites. I mean, take us through the draft kings and your ascendancy. How you got here? >> So, you know, company started in 2012 initially around sort of the major big American sports on DH. Then really a CZ. We started scale that we saw there was a huge consumer interest in the product players that would come on. We're very, very, very sticky. Um, and we've just been kind of, you know, pushing, pushing on growing that using these. So the initial founders are three former analyst. So come on. It's always been sort of a very analytically driven company. So they looked at what we were dealing with, and it was we had L TVs that were way higher than our cracks. So let's keep marketing and growing and growing and growing and finding out ways to offer a better product. So, over 2015 we did a major marketing blitz, blew up the company Absolutely huge. Um, and since then we've been just constantly innovating, adding new sports, adding new features on DH, adding ways toe on the product. And then even more recently, just about a year ago, we expanded also into online sports betting over New Jersey has that's become a legal product across the U. S. So it's been a great time to be at the company a lot of fun. >> What what was your first sport was like Amazon started in books and then, you know, scaled out what was your first sport. So it's actually the first sport was >> baseball because of the time that they actually launched. So is the middle of April. Sporting calendar is a little bit thin. Right then, so is it was baseball to start, and then once football season started, that's really when things take on >> 2015 is when you started the marketing blitz and I remember just here in the ads and it was just intense, like a while. This company's going for it. So you sort of took >> all the chips I went >> all in and it worked. Yeah, I mean, it's part of the, you know, the lifeblood of the company. It's We're a company that ends up being taking risks, but we take calculated risks. So at any given point, you sort of say, like, Hey, what is the what is the range of outcomes over here? We're not playing for second place. We want to be a market leader, so you have to take risks in order, be a market leader. So let's take calculated risks. Let's make sure we're not being insane, but you know we did the math. We figured out what? This is A This is a worthwhile shot. We pushed him for it. Andi really took off from their love to bet on >> sure things. Yeah, well, Greg, we know the people that play the fantasy for it feel that data is what differentiates whether they're going to live in, you know, winner lose. Talk to us a little bit about the data journey inside your business And how that helped differentiate draftkings in the market. Yes. So we think Death draftkings >> is one of the most analytically based companies in the, you know, definitely in the market, but also into sort of like General Cos right now we use our analytics platform to inform pretty much everything we dio on. Go to your point. You're joking. You know, it seems like fantasy sports is easy throughout some giant prizes there, and everything will take care of itself. You know, running a fantasy sports car company. If you throw out a contest that's too big, you lose a ton of money. There's a lot of asymmetric risk in the business where if we're right, we make a little bit more. But if we're wrong. We lose a ton very, very, very fast. So our ability to be very, very sound analytically is what allows us to sort of pushed the envelope and grow, grow, grow but not, you know, lose our heads along the way. You know, some of the fun of that is really, you know, when we first ran, I think one of the most game changing contest we ran was actually back in October of 2014. It was the very first millionaire maker contest I could still remember. It was Week five of the 2020 14 NFL season where we said, Hey, this it's crazy. We need crazy things that happen in order for it to work. But if we're on a $20 contest to enter with $1,000,000 top prize and 2,000,000 of total prizes, it could go viral, go absolutely crazy. And if it loses, here's how it'll losing. Here's how much will hurt us. It's a worthwhile risk. Let's go for it. So that sort of energy of, you know, doing discipline analysis and constantly sort of them. Taking the risk on the back of it is what allowed us to build >> up the brand value that you would have got out of that was sort of worth that risk in part anyway. And you wouldn't have to hurt presumably. >> Exactly. We knew our downside. As long as you know your downside, you're normally in a pretty good spot to take those risks. >> So where do you >> see this All going mean? So the company has grown. You're at this kind of critical mass now, Like we said, highly competitive, you know, knock down. You know, if you take your eye off the ball. So how do you guys keep this going? >> So we have a huge challenge ahead of us over the next couple of years, as sports betting becomes legal across the US, we need to make sure that we are one of the top competitors in that market. Sports betting in the US, we expect to be an absolutely enormous market. It will probably be significantly larger than the fantasy sports market in terms of absolute revenue and even, you know, on order of magnitude more competitive. So we need to be executing each step along the way a CZ markets open up. We need to be able to get into getting two market very, very fast. And that means our tech team needs to be working feverishly to make sure that we can hit the requirements that each legislator and each regulator puts on market entry in their state. We didn't mean making sure we're constantly figuring out what are the product elements that are absolutely critical for our for our users. Is it Maura around the live betting experiences that around the different markets that you offer? It's around pricing. And how do we find these things, these different lovers and told them to make sure that we're putting out a great product for users. And if we do that and throw a great product after users were pretty sure we can make you want >> to be one stop shopping presumably, right? I mean, all sports, right? But But then you've got these niche sports betting. I mean eggs, invest. Example. I could think of this horse racing. You know where it is alive. It's gonna video. It's got commentators on the ground that you know the business really well. Is >> that Is that the strategy to go sort of horizontal and so be a one stop shop or you >> gonna sort of pick your spots? What is the day to tell you? >> You know, I think we're constantly talking about it. One of the things that allowed our fantasy sports business to grow so fast was going a little bit more horizontal. So we offered Gulf in Mass at a time period when the primary competitors and the space vandal did not. On DH, we built that product into one of our largest sports. It's, you know, right up there with MLB in terms of the actual size that that comes in a Z have gone also horizontal, we pulled in other places, like NASCAR. Mm, a great sports that people are interested in. It gets more users into our platform. And honestly, if uses are interested in a product, we don't want them to have to go elsewhere. We want to be able to have the offerings that any sort of, you know, critical mass type environment is going toe is gonna have >> Well, it's that experience, right? Well, I like to shop in Amazon. You do, too, because I >> trusted. And it's the same user experience. So, Greg, one of things >> I'm hearing from you is something that everybody tries for, but it's really challenging that speed. How do you react that fast and move the company into new markets and new offerings and keep innovating? You know, culturally technology wise, you know, How does Draftkings do that? You know, I think a za company, you know, from really every single person that we recruit in higher We've been actually execution Aly disciplined throughout the company's history. It's It's something that our founders did a great job of instilling in the culture right at the gates. I mean, we've tried to foster all the way along the way, which is all the best strategies of the world. They're going to fail if you can't execute well and every single person down the company knows that. And we try to, you know, enable each person to be as autonomous as possible in their ability to execute their their portion of the business that allows us to move really, really, really fast. You know, we disseminate that responsibility quickly, and each leader and sort of each person knows what they have to do to execute. There's a high degree of accountability behind that, you know, I'd like to say there's some. There's some magic recipe that's, um, secret sauce, but it's a lot of just great people doing great work everyday. Well, Greg, you know it's any your competitors that they look at, You know, Boston's been been doing pretty well in Draftkings era, you know, for the last few years. ES o Boston's been a great market for us. We've expanded Conover here on DH. The sports teams have been fantastic, although the Bruins it was a little bit sad about Game seven over there, but it happens. >> So his m o be the flagship news that no, I wouldn't say >> that MLB was first, primarily just of the time of the year when we launched. NFL is always going to go, are not always going to be, but for the for the foreseeable future is the dominant US sport on will remain the dominant US for >> no reason. I mean, kids there watch MLB anymore. Maybe the maybe the playoffs and the games. It was a game. I think I'm some Father's day was like almost five hours long, you know, gets called. You can come in and out. But you know what some of the trends. You see soccer. Is that growing NFL? Obviously huge. Do you see so niche sports like lax coming on. >> So, uh, you know, starting point NFL has been huge. We actually launched a new product Ah, little over a year ago called Showdown, which allowed you start to do fantasy for a single game as opposed to the combination of games that's taken off fantastically because that's tapping into more of the I'm going to sit down and watch this game, and I would love to have a fantasy team on that on this game. That's really expanded the audience like that. That >> was genius because, look, if you're >> out of the running, it doesn't matter because I'm weak. On top of that N b A and NHL on fire. The embassy put out a great product is an actual sport league. You know, the Finals were great. You hate to see the injuries, but it was a great final. Siri's very competitive. The NHL Finals has been very, very competitive. Golf is growing phenomenally as a sport, way farm or interesting golf than I ever anticipated when I first started with the company and it's one of the most exciting things. When the Masters comes each year, every screen has turned to it and we see a huge player. Player number is kind of coming into that one. Beyond that, you know NASCAR. What's been interesting? NASCAR's been having a tough couple years, but the Truck series for us? We launched it this year and the trucks have been great. I don't know if you've watched NASCAR Trucks. They're wildly entertaining. Uh, you know, Emma, you got the big fighter. So every sport sort of has its moments. It's a matter of like picking those moments and figuring out how to make >> the most of them. Do you see boxing at all making a comeback? >> So we have thought about how to get boxing into a into a fantasy. We don't have it at the moment. We're putting a lot of thought into it, so we are actually seeing through. We've seen, you know, we've been in the M M A space and we've seen the growth out from there where that sports doing great and you look at places like Bela Tor. The Professional Fighters league is other leagues, and then boxing is the next step. There's a lot of interest there. I don't think they have the right products yet to be able to kind of engage with that extra way. So that's one of things we're working on. Also, you need a marquee fighter. You always need a marquee fighter. Kind of helped bring in the interest over on that side. So, um, be interesting to see with Taki on sort of the downside of his career. At this point on DH, Mayweather hasn't been fighting much. Will be interesting to see. Who's that next meeting with Adam. But >> I grew up in an era >> of Marquis fighters. What? They would fight, you know, they literally fight 6 70 times a year, you know, and you had used huge names on DSO, and then mm comes along and he's really hurt, >> but it feels like it's tryingto so to resuscitate. Yeah. I mean, I think these things could >> be a little bit cyclical. Like you get one Marquis fighter out there like so my wife, this Filipino. So I'm a huge backing out fan now way watch every fight. Even when we were living in remote locations that forces watching at weird hours. He's a type of athlete that could bring popularity of the sport. So if there was a major U. S. Fighter that gains that degree of sort of, you know that that degree of fame people will be into it, I think >> Do do do your analytics sort of have a probe into the activity at the at the fan level at the sports level, not just the fantasy level or the betting level? Is that a sort of ah ah predictor for you? Yet we >> see a lot of correlations between how many people play our sport are fantasy game, and how many people actually follow the underlying sport. Way can also see trends in terms of If I'm from Boston, I probably pick more patriots in my fantasy lineups than, uh, normal on DH. You can actually see that as people play different sports that you know, the number one Q. Be drafted in in Boston is almost always gonna be Tom Brady. And once you leave that you start seeing Aaron Rodgers pop up. Let's really, really fast. So you see these little micro trends where it's like you are still a sports fan of your local team in your local environment, but it manifest itself in the fantasy. >> So what you think that is? Do you think it's fan affinity >> or do you think it's just the sort of lack of knowledge out inside? You're sort of a circle of trust. >> I think it's probably a combination. I mean, I could say is, you know, following the Celtics in the mid to thousands, I knew the depth of the Celtics pension, how they would use their rotation better than anybody else, Probably better than anybody else in the coaches would probably disagree. But it's like I knew that James Posey was a huge value play on Saturday nights. I knew. I kind of with I feel the Eddie House nights. Uh, so, you know, on your local team, you probably know those players at the not the top top echelon All Stars, but the guy's right beneath. You know them a little bit better and probably more comfortable using >> what's your favorite sport. >> So my favorite sport, from a fantasy perspective, is I play all the basket. I play all football, played basketball just during play offs, and I played baseball. But baseball I'm strictly a fantasy player. I don't really follow the sport to play. I'm just playing fantasy. Okay, >> That's great. So, what do you think? The conference. Here. >> You have you Have you had any timeto interact? I know you were swamped after coming off the stage. >> You know, it looks like a great turnout over here. There's a lot of enthusiasm amongst them from people. I was a little bit late to the late to show up this morning, so I got a bit Swanson eager to go and be able to catch up a bit more. >> Okay, Well, Greg, thanks so much for coming on. The Cuba's great to have your every pleasure meeting you. >> All right, people. Right there. Still, when I >> was back with our next guest, John for it is also in the house. You wanted The Cube from active field data driven 19. Right back

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live, US, 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its eco system partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego everybody. This is theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage, My name is Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman is here, Lisa Martin as well but we've got a very special guest now Ken O'Reilly my good friend is here. He's the director of customer experience for Cisco Stealthwatch. Kenny great to see you thanks for coming on. >> Well, thanks for having me, Dave. Good seeing you as well. >> Yes so customer experience, people think about customer experience and security it's not always great right? It's a challenging environment they're constantly sort of chasing their tails it's like the arms race with the bad guy so what is customer experience all about in the context of security? >> So our number one goal for our security customers is to accelerate their value realization so our challenge is to make sure that they get the value out of the product that they're buying because every minute of every day the bad guys are trying to get their assets and their IP and when they buy a technology the quicker you can get it up and running and protect the better it is for our customer. >> So how do you measure like value? It's like reducing the amount of data that you're exposed to losing? Is it increasing the cost of the bad guys getting in? 'cause if I'm a bad guy and it costs me more to get in I would maybe go somewhere else, how do you measure that? >> Right so, you're right, so our whole product strategy is to increase the cost for the bad guy to get the IP or the assets and so for us we have to understand what the value proposition is for our product so that the customers can realize that value, so whether it's tryna help them with the use cases or operationalize the product or in our case what we try to do we have both network users and security users we try to get both groups to adopt the technology and then expand it from there, operation centers to the guys that are doing the thread hunting to the investigations et cetera. So that's how we sort of gauge the value is the number of people that are using the technology and the number of use cases that are actually implemented. >> So we've been talking about security all week Stealthwatch obviously you know one of the flagship products Cisco security business grew 21% last quarter so that's kind of an interesting stat services is 25% of the companies revenue so you're the intersection of two pretty important places for Cisco so specifically when you come into a customer engagement who are you engaging with is it a multidisciplinary are you primarily dealing with the SecOps group or do you touch other parts of the organization? >> Yeah, so typically when a company's looking, it's usually they're looking for network visibility so we're dealing with the network architecture teams and they typically bring in the security architects 'cause today they're working hand in hand, and then from there that's where we say preach the gospel of Stealthwatch we always say you can never have enough Stealthwatch okay? Because you can never have enough visibility 'cause once you turn the lights on and they can see what's going on in their network it's very illuminating for them and then they realize the challenges that they have and what they have to do to protect their assets. >> Yeah I joked at Google Cloud Next it's like the cockroaches all scrambling you know for the corners when you turn the lights on and Stealthwatch at its core is you don't need a lot of fancy AI even though you can apply fancy AI but you start with the basics right? What do ya got, where are the gaps okay, so now once it's exposed what do you do with that information is the customer experience group come in and help implement it faster? That's part of the value so time to value to that? >> So time to value with our experts of course we understand the space we understand our product we understand the challenge and of course our network and security customers are overwhelmed you know the stat that they throw out there is that our large customers have anywhere from 50-100 security products so how do you stand out? So as a vendor our number one goal is to build that relationship with the customer to become the trusted security advisor so we know better than anybody how to get that value how to get it quickly and you know the number one problem that they have Dave is how to operationalize all these tools 'cause Stealthwatch sits in the middle we're a big integration platform we take data, telemetry, NetFlow from a lot of different products and we bring that data together to figure out, to help that customer figure out how to make sense of it update their policies create better policies and really tighten up their security posture. >> Okay so they might like to reduce the number of tools but they really can't right? 'cause their using 'em and so what you do is you bring in a layer to help manage that. >> Absolutely. >> But you're also solving a problem just in terms of exposing gaps and then do you also have tooling to fill those gaps? Or is that partners tools is that Stealthwatch? >> So we have our own what we call integration platform where we have a platform that helps integrate other, not only other Cisco security technologies into our platform but other security technologies as well outside of Cisco so you know it's a platform that we've built it's part of our customer experience sort of tool set but it's a tool set unlike anybody else ever has so that along with what we do with the DevNet group we've built our own set of API's to integrate in with the product API's so we can pump data out to data lakes we can pump data out to SIMS like Splunk and some of the others so you know that's where we are we're a solutions group that's what we do we work on the solutions, long term value you know we work on the lifecycle sort of value chain with customers. We're there with 'em the whole time you know our goal; retention, we want them to renew which means they're investing in us again and of course as Cloud, as their infrastructure is moving the the Cloud and our technologies are moving to the Cloud we have to be there to help them get through all those technology challenges. >> So the pricing model is a subscription model is that right? >> Yeah. >> Or can be or? >> Yes, well we call it term all right? But it's essentially subscription we have switched over the last 18 months from a perm to a term based model. >> Which I mean Chuck Robbins in the conference calls in the earnings calls talks about the importance of you know increasingly having a rateable model and recognizing subscription, so when you say a term so I got to what, sign up for a year, two years, three years or something like that? >> We like three yep. >> So who doesn't right? Okay so you sign up for three years but the price book says monthly I'm sure right so you (laughs) make it look smaller, but it makes sense though because you're not going to start stop, start stop with your security, you really want to get success out of it so you got to have some kind of commitment, let's talk a little bit more about the analytics side of it and how you're applying machine intelligence I mean there's always been some form of analytics largely for reporting and things of that nature but now it's getting more automated so take us on that analytics journey Stealthwatch has been around for what five years? >> 15 yeah over 15 years. >> 15? >> Ken: Yes, yes, yes. >> Oh wow maybe I just found out about it five years ago. >> (laughs) right yeah, not but I mean-- >> Dave: Take us back five years. >> Five years? So the big thing for us in the data that we collect is context. Right so you've talked to TK about the more context you can add to that data the better you are at analyzing that data so for us that's one of the things that we do we add a lot of context to that data through ICE so identity information, what kind of assets they are and that's where we get to through our tools add more context so that our analytical engines so like the cognitive thread analytics, the encrypted thread analytics that we have, that they're able to analyze that data a lot better and that's what we've been doing now for the past three plus years since we were acquired by Cisco is to find a way to add more context to the data so that helps our analytics become much more effective. >> And you can interact with through API's say for instance Splunk you mentioned that so you got that data that you can operate on do you see a point where the machines are actually going to plug the holes? I mean are we on the cusp of that? In other words you see a gap >> Right. >> Dave: Today a human has to take action correct? >> Yes, right, right, right. >> Do you see a point maybe it's two, three, five 10 years but are we going to get to that point? >> I think so down the line I mean because we've seen as we've been able to get better visibility and better context about that data we can make better decisions through the machine all right? So it doesn't take an army of people to read the matrix right, we're getting better at you know synthesizing that matrix down you take our network segmentation capabilities that we've built as part of the Stealthwatch customer experience team we can get to well over 90% identification of the assets on the network which is a lot better than anybody else in the industry all right? So we're getting there and through sort of the final stages of reading that metrics, reading the matrix we're getting to the point where we understand a lot more what's on peoples networks what those assets are. >> So as a security practitioner how do you think we're doing as an industry? I mean I used to go back every year and say okay how much was spent on security? are we more secure, less secure? And it felt like you know as data grew it felt like we were getting more and more and more exposed you've seen the stats where when a company gets infiltrated it takes on average you know 250 days for them to realize they've been infiltrated is that changing, are we getting better as an industry? >> I think in Cisco we are because of the products that we have in that integrated architecture so when we first joined three years ago that was the drum beat and now today we integrate with ICE we're going to integrate with next generation firewall through the integration of the sort of analytics that we've got in the Cloud that's happening right? And we're trying to integrate with other products but you know you go down on the floor and you see the number of point products that is a nightmare for our customers so for us through the customer experience in our organization we're there to take that complexity out and bring all of those technologies together and when you get to that point then you're really making progress with a customer, a customer that's got 50-100 products in the mix that's a recipe for disaster and if it's still like that five years from now customers are still going to be challenged. >> So a big part of your customer experience mission is simplification, speed time, time to value. >> Yes. >> Raise the cost to the bad guys and then do it all over again. >> Yeah, yeah it's just rinse and repeat and that's a life cycle journey and that's what we take our customers through right. >> Now I noticed you have on your phone you got the Bruins logo. >> That's right, right here proud. >> So big game tomorrow any predictions? >> 4-3 in overtime Bruins. >> Oh my God I don't think my heart could take that. >> Could you not take that Dave? It's going to be an overtime game. >> Well it's you know it's rare to have a game seven in any, at the very final one, a lot of game sevens but not to win it all I think the last time at Boston was 1984. >> Ken: Is that right? >> Yeah it's been a long time, so you know I'm excited. >> I know you are (laughs) that's right. >> Warriors fans too we got that thing going out I mean I don't know for all you hoop fans out there so, >> Hopefully there's a game seven for that as well. >> Yeah let's go right, why not? >> Why not, game seven all round. >> All right so Chara is going to play with his broken jaw or whatever's going on. >> Matt Grzelcyk I hope is back. >> Dave: Yeah that would be key. >> That would be key yeah so, >> Dave: sure up the defense >> That's right. (crosstalk) >> Ken: He's a plus minus leader Chara. >> Oh yeah. >> That's right all time. >> Even though we give him a lot of grief. (laughter) he may look slow but he's all time plus minus leader. >> All right Kenny hey thanks so much-- >> All right Dave thanks for having me on all right go Bruins. >> All right keep it right there everybody go Bruins we will be right back Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman and Lisa Martin we're live from Cisco Live in San Diego you're watching theCUBE. (electronic jingle)

>> Narrator: Live, from San Diego, California, it's The Cube, covering Cisco Live, US, 2019. Brought to you by Cisco, and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego, everybody, you're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Volante. I'm here with my co-host Stu Miniman, we're covering day two here of Cisco Live, 2019. Anand Oswal is here, he's the Senior Vice President of Enterprise Networking Engineering at Cisco, and John Apostolopoulos. The Italians and the Greeks, we have a lot in common. He is the VP and CTO of Enterprise Networking at Cisco. Gentlemen, welcome to The Cube. How did I do? >> You did awesome. >> Dave: Not too bad, right? Thank you. (chuckles) All right. Anand, let's start with you. You guys have had a bunch of news lately. You're really kind of re-thinking access to the network. >> Anand: Yeah. >> Can you explain what's behind that, to our audience? >> Yeah. If you think about it, the network is running more and more critical infrastructure. At the same time, it's increasing modern scale and complexity. What we expect, is that you always need wireless on. The workspace is on the move. You're working here, in your office, in the cafe, in the soccer field, everywhere. You want an uninterrupted, unplugged experience. For that, it's wireless first, it's cloud-driven, and it's data-optimized. So, we had to rethink how we do access. It's not just about your laptops and your phones on the wireless network, in the enterprise it's digital management systems. IOD devices, everything's connected wirelessly. And we need to rethink the access, on that part. >> So John, this obviously ties in to, you know, you hear all the buzz about 5G and WIFI 6. Can you explain the connection and, you know, what do we need to know about that? >> Okay, so 5G and WIFI 6 are two new wireless technologies, which are coming about now, and they're really awesome. So, WIFI 6 is the new version of WIFI. It's available today, and it's going to be available predominantely indoors. As we use WIFI indoors, in high-density environments, where we need a large database per square meter. And the new WIFI 6, the coverage indoors. 5G is going to be used predominately outdoors, in the cellular frequency. Replacing conventional 4G or LTE, and it'll provide you the broad coverage as you roam around, outdoors. And what happens though, is we need both. You need great coverage indoors, which WIFI 6 can provide, and you need great coverage outdoors, which 5G will provide. >> So, the 4G explosion kind of coincided with mobile-- >> Anand: Yep. >> Obviously, and that caused a huge social change-- >> Anand: Yep. >> And of course, social media took off. What should we expect with 5G, is it, you know, I know adoption is going to take a while, we'll talk about that, but it feels like it's more, sort of, B-to-B driven, but maybe not. Can you, sort of, give us your thoughts there. >> Well think about it, if you see WIFI 6 and 5G have actually been on some similar fundamental technology building blocks. You know, you've all been at a ball game. Or the Warriors game, like a few weeks ago, when they were winning. And, after a great play, you're trying to send that message, a video to your kid or something, and the WIFI is slow, latency. With WIFI 6, you won't have that problem. 'Cause WIFI 6 has four times the latency, sorry, four times the throughput and capacity as existing WIFI. Lower latency. And also, the battery life. You know, people say that batteries are the most important thing today, like in the Maslow Hierarchy Chart-- >> Dave: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Three times the battery life, for WIFI 6 endpoints. So, you're going to see a lot of use cases where you have inter-working with WIFI 6 and 5G. WIFI 6 for indoors, and 5G for outdoor, and there'll be some small overlap, but the whole idea is that, how do you ensure that these two disparate access networks are talking to each other? Exchanging security, policy, and there is some visibility. >> Okay, so, well, first of all, you're a Warriors fan, right? >> Anand: Yeah, I am. >> Awesome, we want to see this series keep going. >> Game six, baby! >> That was really exciting. Now of course, I'm a Bruins fan, so we're on the plane the other night, and the JetBlue TV shut down, you know, so I immediately went to the mobile. >> Yeah. >> But it was a terrible experience, I was going crazy. Texting my friends, what's happening? >> Anand: Yeah. >> You're saying that won't happen-- >> Anand: Yeah. >> With 5G and WIFI 6? >> Anand: Yeah. Exactly. >> Oh, awesome. >> So, John, help connect for us, Enterprise Networking. We've been talking about the new re-architectures, you know, there's ACI, there's now intent-based networking, how does this play into the 5G and WIFI 6 discussion that we're having today? >> Okay, so one of the things that really matters to our customers, and to everybody, basically, is that they want the sort of end-to-end capability. They have some devices, they want to talk through applications, they want access to data, they want to talk with other people, or to IoT things. So you need this sort of end-to-end capability, wherever the ends are. So one of the things we've been working on for a number of years now, is first of all intent-based networking, which we announced two and a half years ago. And then, multi-domain, where we try to connect across the different domains. Okay, across campus, and WAN, and data center, all the way to the cloud, and across the service finder network. And to add security, as foundational across all of these. This is something that Dave Goeckeler and Chuck Robbins talked about at their keynote yesterday. And this is a huge area for us, 'cause we're going to make this single-orchestrated capability for our customers, to connect end-to-end, no matter where the end devices are. >> All right, so Anand, I have to believe that it's not the poor, you know, administrator, saying, oh my God, I have all these pieces and I need to manage them. (laughing) Is this where machine learning and AI come in to help me with all these disparate systems? >> Absolutely. Our goal is very simple. Any user, on any device, should have access to any application. Whether it's sitting in a data center, in a cloud, or multiple clouds. Or any network. You want that securely and seamlessly. You also want to make sure that the whole network is orchestrated, automated, and you have the right visibilities. Visibilities for ID, and visibility for business insights. Talk of AI and ML, what's happening is that as the network is growing in complexity and scale, the number of alerts are growing up the wazoo. So you are not able to figure it out. That's where the power of AI and machine learning comes. Think about it. In the industrial revolution, the industrial revolution made sure that you don't have the limitations of what humans can do, right? You had machines. And now, we want to make sure that businesses can benefit in the digital revolution. You're not limited by what I can pass through the logs and scrolls. I want to automate everything. And that's the power of AI and machine learning. >> Are there use cases where you would want some human augmentation, where you don't necessarily want the machine taking over for you, or do you see this as a fully-automated type of scenario? >> Yeah, so what happens is, first of all, visibility is really, really important. The operator of a network wants to have visibility, and they want end-to-end across all these domains. So the first thing we do is we apply a lot of machine learning, to take that immense amount of data, as Anand mentioned, and to translate it into pieces of information, to insights into what's happening. So then we can share to the user and they can have visibility in terms of what's happening and how well it's happening, are they anomalies, or is there a security threat, so forth. And then, we can provide them additional feedback. Hey, this is ananomaly, this could be a problem. This is the root cause of the problem, and we believe these are the solutions for it. What do you want to do? Do you want to actuate one of these solutions? And then they get to choose. >> And if you think about the other way, our goal is really to take the bits and bites of data in the network, convert that data into information. That information into insights. That insights that lead to outcomes. Now, you want to also make sure that you can augment the power of AI and machine learning on those insights, so you can drill down exactly what's happening. So, for example, you want to first baseline your network. What's normal for your environment? And when you have deviations. That's anomalies. Then you narrow down exactly what the problem is. And then you want to automate the remediation of that problem. That's the power of AI and ML. >> When you guys, as engineers, when you think about, you know, applying machine intelligence, there's a lot of innovation going on there. Do you home-grow that? Do you open source it? Do you, you know, borrow? Explain the philosophy there, in terms of from a development standpoint. >> Yeah. From a development point of view it's a combination of all the other aspects. We will not reinvent what already exists, but there's always a lot of secret sauce that you need to apply, because everything flows to the network, right? If everything flows to the network, Cisco has a lot of information. It's not just a data lake. We're a data source as well. So taking this disparate source of information, normalizing it, harmonizing it, creating a language, applying the algorithm of AI and machine learning. For example, we do the model learning and training in the cloud. We do inference in the cloud, and you push the rules down. So it's a combination of all of the aspects we talked about. >> Right, and you use whatever cloud tooling is available. >> Yes. >> But it sounds like from a Cisco engineering standpoint, it's how you apply the machine intelligence, for the benefit of your customers and those outcomes-- >> Anand: Yeah. >> Versus us thinking of Cisco as this new AI company, right? >> Anand: Yeah. >> That's not the latter, it's the former, is that fair? >> So one of the things that's really important is as you know, Cisco's been making, we've been designing our A6 for many years, with really, really rich telemetry. And as you know, data is key to doing good machine learning and stuff. So we've been designing the A6, to do do real time at wire speed telemetry. And also to do various sorts of algorithmic work on the A6 to figure out, hey, what is the real data you want to send up? And then we've optimized the OS, IOS XE, to be able to perform various algorithms there, and also to host containers where you can do more machine learning at the switch, at the router, even in the future, maybe, at the AP. And then with DNA center, we've been able to gather all of the data together, in a single data lake, where we can perform machine learner on top. >> That's a very important point John mentioned, because you want layer one to layer some of the analytics. And that's why the Catalyst 9120 access point we launched has the Cisco RF ASIC, that provides things like clean air for spectrum, we've also got the analytics from layer one level, all the way to layer seven. >> Yeah, I really like the line actually, from Chuck Robbins yesterday, he said, the network sees everything and Cisco wants to you know, give you that visibility. Can you walk us through some of the new pieces, what people, either things that, they might not have been aware of, or new announcements this week. >> So, as part of the Cisco AI network analytics, we announced three things. The first thing is automated baselining. What that really means is that, what's normal for your environment, right? Because what's normal for your own environment might not be the same for my environment. Once I understand what that normal baseline is, then, as I have deviations, I can do anomaly detection. I can correlate and aggregate issues. I can really bring down apply AI and machine learning and narrow down the issues that are most critical for you to look at right now. Once I narrow down the exact issue, I go on to the next thing, and that is what we call machine reasoning. And machine reasoning is all about automating the workflow of all you need to do to debug and fix a problem. You want the network to become smarter and smarter, the more you use it. And all of this is done through model learning and training in the cloud, inference in the cloud, and pushing it down, the rules as we have devices online, on plan. >> So do you see the day, if you think about the roadmap for machine intelligence, do you see the day where the machine will actually do the remediation of that workflow? >> Absolutely. That's where we need to get to. >> When you talk about the automated baselining, I mean there's obviously a security, you know, use case there. Maybe talk about that a little bit, and are there others? Really, it depends on your objective, right? If my objective is to drive more efficiency-- >> Yeah. >> Lower costs, I presume a baseline is where you start, right? So... >> When I say, baseline, what I mean really is like, say if I tell you that on this laptop, to connect to the WIFI network, it took you three seconds. And I ask you is that good or bad? You'll say, I don't know. (laughs) >> What's the baseline for the environment? >> Dave: Yeah. >> What's normal? And next time, if you take eight seconds, and your baseline is three, something is wrong. But, what is wrong? Is it a laptop issue? Is it a version on there, on your device? Is it an application issue? A network issue? An RF issue? I don't know. That's where AI machine learning will determine exactly what the problem is. And then you use machine reasoning to fix the problem. >> Sorry, this is probably a stupid question, but, how much data do you actually need, and how much time do you need, to actually do a good job in that type of use case? >> Well, what happens is you need the right data, okay? And you're not sure where the right data is. (chuckles) >> So originally what we'd do, a lot of our expertise, that Cisco has for 20 years, is figuring out what the right data is. And also, with a lot of the machine learning we've done, as well as machine reasoning, where we put together templates and so forth, we've basically gathered the right data, for the customer, and we refined that over time. So over time, like, this venue here, the way this venue's network, what it is, how it operates and so forth, varies with time, and we need to refine that over time, keep it up to date, and so forth. >> And when we talk about data, we're talking about tons of metadata here, right? I mean, do you ever see the day where there'd be more metadata than data? (laughs) >> Yeah-- >> Rhetorical question. (laughs) >> All right, so-- >> It's true though, it's true. >> Right? (laughing) >> We're here in the DevNet zone, lots of people learning about building infrastructures, code, tell us how the developer angle fits into what we've been discussing here. >> Oh, yes. So what happens is, as part of intent-based networking, a key part's the automation, right? And another key part's the assurance. Well, it's what DevNet's trying to do right now, by working with engineering, with us, and various partners, other customers, is they're putting together, what are the key use cases that people have, and what is code that can help them get that done? And what they're also doing, is they're trying to, they're looking through the code, they're improving it, they're trying to instill best practice and stuff, so it's a reasonably good code, that people can use and start building off of. So we think this can be very valuable for our customers to help move into this more advanced automation, and so forth. >> So, architecture matters, we sort of touched upon it, but I want you to talk more about multi domain architecture. We heard Chuck Robbins, you know, talk about it. What is it, why is it such a big deal, and how does it give Cisco a competitive advantage? >> Think about it, I mean, multi domain architecture's nothing but all the components of a modern enterprise network behind the scenes. From giving access to a user or device, to access to an application, and everything in between. Now traditionally, each of these domains, like an access domain, the WAN domain, can have hundreds of thousands of network nodes and devices. Each of these are configured, generally manually, the the CLI. Multi domain architecture's all about stitching these various domains into one cohesive, data-driven, automated, programmable network. So, your campus, your branch, your WAN, your data center and cloud, with security as an integral part of it, if at all. >> So, it's really a customer view of an architecture, isn't it. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Okay. It's good, I like that answer. I thought you were going to come out with a bunch of Cisco-- >> Anand: No. >> Mumbo-jumbo and secret sauce-- >> No. >> But it really is, you guys thinking about, okay, how would our customers need to architect their network? >> Exactly. Because if you think about it, it's all about a customer use case. For example, like, we talked earlier, today we are working everywhere. Like, on the poolside, in the cafe, in the office, and always on the go. You're accessing your business-critical applications, whether that's Webex, salesforce.com, O365. At the same time, you're reading Facebook, and WhatsApp, and YouTube, and other applications. Cisco's SD-WAN domain will talk to Cisco's ACI domain, exchange SLAs and policies, so now you can prioritize that application that you want, which is business-critical. And place the right part, for the best experience for you. Because you want the best experience for that app, no matter where you are. >> Well, and the security implications too, I mean-- >> Anand: Absolutely. >> You're basically busting down the security silos-- >> Yeah. >> Dave: And sort of the intent here, right? >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Great. All right, last thoughts on the show, San Diego, last year we were Orlando, we were in Barcelona earlier this year, your thoughts about that. >> I think it's been great so far. If you think about it, in the last two years we've filled out the entire portfolio for the new access network. On the Catalyst 9100 access points, with WIFI 6, the switches, next generation campus core, the wireless LAN controller, eyes for unified policy, DNA center for automation, analytics, DNA spaces for business insights, the whole access network has been reinvented, and it's a great time. >> Nice, strong summary, but John, we'll give you the last word. >> What happens here is also, everything Anand says, and we have 5000 engineers who've been doing this over multiple years, and we have a lot more in the pipe. So you're going to see more in six months from now, more in nine months, and so forth. It's a very exciting time. >> Excellent. Guys, it's clear you, like you say, completing the portfolio, positioning for the next wave of access, so congratulations on all the hard work, I know a lot goes into it >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you so much. >> All right, keep right there, Dave Volante with Stu Miniman, Lisa Martin is also in the house. We'll be back with The Cube, Cisco Live 2019, from San Diego. (fast electronic music)

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome back to San Diego. Everybody watching the Cube, the leader and live check coverage. My name is David Locke. I'm here with my co host student in recovering Day to hear Sisqo live. 2019 on. On On. On on. Oswald is here. Excuse me. Sees the senior vice president of enterprise networking Engineering at Cisco. And John A postal, a polis. Italians in the Greeks. We have a lot in common. He is the VP and CTO of Enterprise Network. And get Sisko. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. How'd I do? Do you know it? Also, that you're bad, right? Thank you. All right, Good. Deal it out. Let's start with you. You guys have had a bunch of news lately. Uh, you're really kind of rethinking access to the network. Can you explain what's behind that to our audience? >> Yeah, even think about it. The network is getting has running more and more critical. Infrastructure at the same time is increasing. Bottom scale and complexity. What? We expected that you'll only be obvious. Violence on workspace is on the move. Are you? You're working here in your office, in the cafe, The sock off everywhere you want. An uninterrupted unplugged experience for that is violence. First, it's cloud driven and is dead optimist. So we had to rethink our way to access. It's not just about your laptops and your fool on the wireless network. In the end of the digital management systems, Coyote devices, everything is going to provide us with means reaching the access on that. But >> so, John, this obviously ties into, you know, you hear all the buzz about five g and WiFi. Six. Can you explain the connection? And you know what? We need to know about that. >> Okay, it's so fine. Five. Jean WiFi 62 new wireless technologies coming about now, and they're really awesome. So y fi six is the new version. WiFi. It's available today, and it's going to be available for down predominately indoors as wi WiFi indoors and high density environments where you need a large number. Large data bait for square meter una WiFi. Once again, the new WiFi six fight in the coverage indoors uh, five is going to be used predominately outdoors in the cellular frequency. Replacing conventional for Geo lt will provide you The broad coverage is your roam around outdoors. And what happens, though, is we need both. You need great coverage indoors, which wife Isis can provide, and you need great coverage outdoors. Which five year cried >> for G explosion kind of coincided with mobile yet obviously, and that caused a huge social change. And, of course, social media took off. What should we expect with five G? Is it? You know, I know adoption is gonna take a while. I'll talk about that, but it feels like it's more sort of be to be driven, but but maybe not. Can you >> see why 5 65 gr actually billions Some similar fundamental technology building blocks? You know you will be in the ball game for the Warriors game like a few weeks ago when they were winning on DH. After a bit of time to send that message. Video your kid something on the WiFi slow laden Z with WiFi, 61 have a problem. The WiFi six has four times the late in C 14. The throughput and capacity has existing y find Lowell Agency and also the battery life. You know, people say that that is the most important thing today. Like in the mass Maharaj three times the battery life for WiFi, 16 points. So you're gonna see a lot of use cases where you have inter walking within 556 and five g WiFi six foot indoors and find you for outdoor and some small overlap. But the whole idea is how do you ensure that these two disparate access networks are talking to each other explaining security policy and it is invisibility. >> Okay, so first what? Your warriors fan, right? Yeah. Awesome way. Want to see the Siri's keep going, baby? That was really exciting. Because I'm a Bruins fan, sir, on the plane the other night and in the JetBlue TV. Shut down, you know, So I immediately went to the mobile, But it was terrible experience, and I was going crazy checks in my friends. What's happening? You say that won't happen? Yeah, with five Julia and WiFi sexy. Exactly. Awesome. >> So, John, help connect for us. Enterprise. Not working. We've been talking about the new re architectures. You know, there's a c I there now intent based networking. How does this play into the five G and WiFi six discussion that we're having today? >> So one of the things that really matters to our customers and for everybody, basically, they want these sort of entering capability. They had some device is they want to talk to applications. They want access to data. We want to talk with other people or try ot things. So you need this sort of end twin capability wherever the ends are. So one of the things I've been working on a number of years now it's first all intent Basin that working, which we announced two and 1/2 years ago. And then multi domain, we try to connect across the different domains. Okay, well across campus and when, and data center all the way to the cloud and across the Service Fighter network and trad security has foundational across all of these. This was something that David Buckler and Chuck Robbins talked about at their keynote yesterday, and this is a huge area for us because we're going to make this single orchestrated capability crop customers to connect and to and no matter where the end of ices are >> alright so sewn on I have to believe that it's not the port, you know, administrator saying, Oh my God, I have all these signs of them. Is this where machine learning in A I come in to help me with all these disparate system absolutely are going very simple. Any user on any device had access to any application. Sitting in a data center in a cloud of multiple clouds over any network, you want that securely and seamlessly. You also wanna have nature. Its whole network is orchestrator automated, and you're the right visibility's recipes for idea on with the business insights on the eye. An ML. What's happening is there for the next book is going in complexity and skill. The number of alerts are growing up, so you are not able to figure it out. That's where the power of a I and machine learning comes. Think about it in the industry revolution, the Industrial Revolution made sure that you are. You don't have limitations or what humans can do right, like machines. And now we want to make sure businesses can benefit in the digital revolution, you know, in limited by what I can pass through all the logs and scrolls on ornament. Everything and that's the power of air and machine learning >> are there use cases where you would want some human augmentation. We don't necessarily want the machine taking over for you or Or Do you see this as a fully automated type of scenario? >> Yeah, so what happens is first ball visibility is really, really important. The operator of an effort wants the visibility and they want entwined across all these domains. So the first thing we do is we apply a lot of machine learning to get to take that immense amount of data is an unmentioned and to translate it into piece of information to insights into what's happening so that we could share to the user. And they can have visibility in terms of what's happened, how well it's happening. Are they anomalies? Are is this security threat so forth? And then we can find them additional feedback. Hate. This is anomaly. This could be a problem. This is the root cause of the problem, and we believe these are the solutions for what do you want to do? You wantto Do you want actuate one of these solutions and then they get to choose. >> And if you think of any other way, our goal is really take the bits and bytes of data on a network. Convert that data into information that information into insights that inside that lead to outcomes. Now you want. Also make sure that you can augment the power of a machine. Learning on those insights, you can build on exactly what's happening. For example, you want first baseline, your network, what's normal for your environment and when you have deviations and that anomalies. Then, you know, I don't know exactly what the problem is. Anyone automated the mediation of the problem. That's the power of A and women you >> When you guys as engineers, when you think about, you know, applying machine intelligence, there's a lot of, you know, innovation going on there. Do you home grow that? Do you open source it? Do you borrow? Explain the philosophy there in terms of it. From a development standpoint, >> development point of it is a combination of off all the aspects, like we will not green when they leave it all the exists. But it's always a lot of secrets are that you need to apply because everything flows through the network, right? If everything first netbooks, this quarter of information is not just a data link, their data source as well. So taking this district's also information. Normalizing it, harmonizing it, getting a pretty language. Applying the Alberta and machine learning, for example. We do that model, model learning and training in the clouds. Way to infants in the cloud, and you pushed the rules down. There's a combination, all of all, of that >> right, and you use whatever cloud tooling is available. But it sounds like it's really from an interest from a Cisco engineering standpoint. It's how you apply the machine intelligence for the benefit of your customers and those outcomes versus us. Thinking of Sisko is this new way I company right. That's not the ladder. It's the former. Is that >> fair? One of the things that's really important is that, as you know, Cisco has been making, uh, we've been designing a six for many years with really, really rich telemetry and, as you know, Data's key to doing good machine learning and stuff. So I've been designing the A six to do really time at wire speed telemetry and also to do various sorts of algorithmic work on the A six. Figure out. Hey, what is the real data you want to send up? And then we have optimized the OS Iowa sexy to be able to perform various algorithms there and also post containers where you could do more more machine learning at the switch at the router, even in the future, maybe at the A P and then with DNA Center way, have been able to gather all the data together in a single data life where we could form a machine learning on top. >> That's important, Point John mentioned, because you want Leo want layers and analytics. And that's why the cattle's 91 191 20 access point we launch has Cisco are basic that provides things like cleaning for spectrum were also the analytic from layer one level are literally a seven. I really like the line, actually from Chuck Robbins, yesterday said. The network sees everything, and Cisco wants to give you that visibility. Can you walk us through some of the new pieces? What, what what people, Either things that they might not have been aware of our new announcements this week as part of the Sisko, a network analytics, announced three things. First thing is automated based lining. What it really means. Is that what's normal for your environment, right? Because what's normal for your own environment may not be the same for my environment. Once I understand what that normal baseline is, then, as I have deviations I canto anomaly detection, I can call it an aggregate issues I can really bring down. Apply here and machine learning and narrow down the issues that are most critical for you to look at right now. Once and Aragon exact issue. I wanted the next thing, and that is what we call machine. Reasoning on machine reasoning is all about ordering the workflow off what you need to do to debug and fix the problem. You want the network to become smarter and smarter, the more you use it on. All of this is done through model learning and putting in the clouds infants in the cloud and pushing it down the rules as way have devices on line on time. So, >> do you see the day? If you think about the roadmap for for machine intelligence, do you see the day where the machine will actually do the remediation of that workflow. >> Absolutely. That's what we need to get you >> when you talk about the automated base lining is obviously a security, you know, use case there. Uh, maybe talk about that a little bit. And are there others? It really depends on your objective, right? If my objective is to drive more efficiency, lower costs, I presume. A baseline is where you start, right? So >> when I say baseline what I mean really, like, say, if I tell you that from this laptop to connect on a WiFi network, it took you three seconds and ask, Is that good or bad? You know, I don't know what the baseline for his environment. What's normal next time? If you take eight seconds on your baseline street, something is wrong. But what is wrong isn't a laptop issue isn't a version on the on your device is an application issue on network issue and our issue I don't know. That's why I'm machine learning will do exactly what the problem is. And then you use machine reasoning to fix a problem. >> Sorry. This is probably a stupid question, but how much data do you actually need. And how much time do you need to actually do a good job in that? That type of use case? >> What happens is you need the right data, Okay? And you're not sure where the right data is originally, which we do a lot of our expertise. It's this grass for 20 years is figuring out what the right data is and also with a lot of machine learning. We've done as well as a machine reason where we put together templates and so forth. We've basically gathered the right made for the right cause for the customer. And we refined that over time. So over time, like this venue here, the way this venue network, what it is, how it operates and so forth varies with time. We need to weigh need to refine that over time, keep it up to date and so forth. >> And when we talk about data, we're talking about tons of metadata here, right? I mean, do you see the day where there'll be more metadata than data? Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. All right, so So it's true you were hearing >> the definite zone. Lots of people learning about a building infrastructure is code. Tell us how the developer angle fits into what we've been discussing. >> Here we ask. So what happens is is part of intent based on African key parts of automation, right? And another key parts. The assurance. Well, it's what Devon it's trying to do right now by working with engineering with us and various partners are customers is putting together one of the key use cases that people have and what is code that can help them get that done. And what they're also doing is trying to the looking through the code. They're improving it, trying to instill best practice and stuff. So it's recently good po'd people can use and start building off. So we think this could be very valuable for our customers to help move into this more advanced automation and so forth. >> So architecture matters. We've touched upon it. But I want you to talk more about multi domain architectures wear Chuck Robbins. You know, talk about it. What is it? Why is it such a big deal on DH? How does it give Sisko competitive advantage? >> Think about it. I mean, my dad go being architectures. Nothing but all the components of a modern enterprise that look behind the scenes from giving access to a user or device to access for application and everything in between. Traditionally, each of these domains, like an access domain, the land domain can have 100 thousands off network know that device is. Each of these are configured General Manual to see a live my domain architectures almost teaching these various domains into one cohesive, data driven, automated programmable network. Your campus, your branch, your ran. But he doesn't and cloud with security as an integral part of it if it all. >> So it's really a customer view of an architecture isn't? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, that's good. I like that answer. I thought you're going to come out with a bunch of Cisco No mumbo jumbo in secret sauce. Now it really is you guys thinking about Okay, how would our customers need to architect there? >> But if you think about it, it's all about customer use case, for example, like we talked earlier today, we were walking everywhere on the bull's eye, in the cafe, in office and always on the goal. You're accessing your business school applications, whether it's webex salesforce dot com, 40 65. At the same time you're doing Facebook and what's happened. YouTube and other applications. Cisco has the van Domain will talk to Sisko. The domains action escalates and policies. So now you can cry tears the application that you want, which is business critical and fixing the night watchers but miss experience for you. But you want the best experience for that matter, where you are well >> on the security implications to I mean, you're basically busting down the security silos. Sort of the intent here, right? Right. Last thoughts on the show. San Diego last year. Orlando. We're in Barcelona earlier this year. >> I think it's been great so far. If you think about it in the last two years, we fill out the entire portfolio for the new access network when the cattle is 90. 100. Access points with WiFi six Switches Makes emission Campus core. Waterston, Controller Eyes for Unified Policy Data Center for Automation Analytics. Delia Spaces Business Insights Whole Access Network has been reinvented on It's a great time. >> Nice, strong summary, but John will give you the last word. >> What happens here is also everything about It says that we have 5,000 engineers have been doing this a couple years and we have a lot more in the pipe. So you're going to Seymour in six months from now Morn. Nine months and so forth. It's a very exciting time. >> Excellent. Guys. It is clear you like you say, completing the portfolio positioning for the next wave of of access. So congratulations on all the hard work I know a lot goes into it is Thank you very much for coming. All right, Keep it right there. David. Dante was stupid. And Lisa Martin is also in the house. We'll get back with the Cube. Sisqo live 2019 from San Diego.

>> Live, from Miami Beach, Florida it's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody, sunny Miami. Dave Vellante here with Peter Burris. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, and there's a lot of noise here, and there's a lot of signal here. VeeamON 2019, this is theCUBE's third year doing Veeam's big customer show. We started doing NOLA, last year was Chicago, a very hip location here at the Fountainebleau Hotel. Carey Stanton is here. He is the Vice President of business development and corporate dev, corp-dev at Veeam and Jeff Kalat, a CUBE alum, >> Yep, you bet. >> long-time friend of theCUBE, senior director of strategic alliances at Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're very welcome. Carey let me start with you. Uh, I really want to talk about sports with you, but anyway, we won't. We'll hold that off. (laughter) >> (Carey) One day. >> Momentum. You're relatively new to Veeam. But you've been here now a couple years. Where's this momentum coming from, from your perspective, as a recent Veeam entrant. >> Yeah, no, the momentum's coming from across the board, but I think a big momentum is coming from new product innovation that we're doing with Office 365, and we're just driving up subscription business momentum that we have for the pent-up demand that we had for Euphor. But a big part is coming from our relationships like we have with HPE. We invested heavily a few years ago when we announced that joint reseller agreement. What we've done is not just continued to sell but add a plethora of new solutions to it Jeff's going to talk about what we're doing with GreenLake adding SimpliVity, adding the overall solutions that we have. But that's a team that started two years ago with two people that we now have over 20 people just working, dedicated with HPE on co-selling. And I'm happy to say that our business in first half, or I should say year-to-date is up 50% year over year on a global reseller business. >> Well Jeff, theCUBE as you know, has been documenting the ebbs and flows of HP and HPE over the last, better part of a decade. And when HP split in two, to HPE and HP Inc. One of the things that-- And then sold the software business, or a large portion of it. One of the things that went was data protection. >> (Jeff) You got it. >> (Dave) And that just opened up a whole new set of opportunities and Veeam was obviously one of those. And it's starting to pay dividends. >> You got it, yeah, to that point, that evolution through HPE.nex, we were able to focus on our core. And the benefit, the inherit benefit is that we can partner with the best of class in the marketplace. And Veeam is considered best of class. So when it comes to data availability, data protection, we're all in. And we're actually, as a company, we're actually doubling down now in our partnership with Veeam. We've actually taken them from, maybe a traditional storage alliance, and taken them to be one of our top global strategic alliances in the line of the Microsoft's, the Veeam, or as the SAP's. Because we see great momentum, we see great customer adoption and interest and we see great innovation at the product level, but also in the whole global market chain. >> Well talk a little more about that because it was, the move allowed you to form new partnerships that dramatically expanded your TAM but, I'm interested in the nature of the partnership. Is it, just go to market, is there engineering integration? Talk about that a little bit. >> Our first step when we came together and said okay let's take this to the next level, we realized we need to narrow our focus to the core customer values and we really settled on three core areas of this relationship. One is first, data protection for, around our intelligence storage, as you know, our storage portfolio 3 Par, Nimble, we've had a great relationship there, we continue to drive co-innovation at the road map level, but also drive go-to-market activities and marketing and we have feet on the street actively selling. So the first one's really expanding our work with storage. Now we're taking it, we're extending, if you will, through consumption based data management, using, well HPE has GreenLake, Greenlake we see 40% of customers by 2020 are going to be consuming their data center IT more in a consumption model. There are inherent benefits of that. What we now have offered and launched just recently Backup,is a service through our flex capacity coming out of GreenLake, providing customers the choice, if you will, to move from a, not from a capital expenditure, but, by the drink, if you will, consumption base. So that's the second core area. And the third core area is new for us, and that's around our HCI portfolio. As you know, we purchased SimpliVity. Well, SimpliVity has a lot of inherent backup, dedupe compression in line, but there actually are some Zivik use cases that we're deploying out there that show how Simplivity in a Veeam environment can actually, customers can see actually incremental values. So, those are the three key areas we're focused on as we up-level this whole relationship and partnership. >> (Dave) So Carey, please. >> I was just going to say if you think of, we talk a lot about we go after the technical decision maker in all these, hundreds of people here at the conference. And then going towards the executive, the enterprise. And it's through relationships with HPE on this, the flex capacity, being able to go to a customer and offer a true enterprise solution that they're looking for, everyone wants as a service. And so we've closed multiple deals this year thanks to having the Greenlake. So, our relationship with HPE continues to elevate and the enterprise is a result of the solutions that we're doing. Not just selling storage, but selling a complete solution. >> Rathmeyer was kind of tongue-in-cheek this morning at the analyst and media event. He was talking about how in 2013 he predicted that Veeam would be a billion dollar company by 2018. And he said he missed it by six months. One of the reasons was because you know, you got the subscription model. So that's, you know GreenLake obviously is part of that, maybe not the predominant part yet but I think you said you have 40% you're saying will consume, as a service by 2020. >> 2020, actually soon. >> (Dave) Okay so pretty substantial. >> Yeah. >> What's driving that? Is it just CFO's want to go to opex? Or is it-- >> I think it's a, there are many, the value you get without locking yourself into every three years needing to do a total forklift upgrade of your infrastructure, that's one thing. The second thing is moving it from a capital expenditure to an opex expediture. It can be planned, it can be budgeted as well. The third thing is the customer doesn't have to mess with all the technology, updating the firmware, the drivers and all that. We will do it on their behalf, right? We give them the economics of cloud on prem and that's the beauty of that. So we believe, and lock-step in alignment with Veeam, the world is hybrid in the future. So on prem is here to live forever, but increasingly we need to leverage the assets in the cloud and this is providing the ability of doing it in a consumption model. >> And it's not just the economics it's the experience as well. >> Oh totally, if you want to, if you live in a house and you're a home owner, and you want a new bathroom, you put in a bathroom. If you're a renter you end up in a long, laborious negotiation that you're going to lose. And the same kind of notion is here as people realize there's greater strategic opportunities and options from how to use their data differently. They want access to those options. And that's the basis of agility. The opex to capex is good but you've got to put it in business context. It's how you create additional options in your data oriented investments. So, as you guys are moving forward are you starting to have that conversation with customers? And relating data, data value, asset management, Backup, Restore, to this broader picture, this broader strategic union you're putting together? >> Yeah and that is a key imperative of how we get even stronger in traction is telling the bigger picture. And you look at the world of yesterday, where it's just backup and recovery, look at the advent of edge devices and the amount of data that's being put at the edge. Now look at AI and machine learning where, the data is inherently needed to project the changes and the needs that are in the future. So, I think these all tie in to the play and I believe at GreenLake our consumption model can provide great benefits, above and beyond the traditional backup and recovery. >> And I was just going to add to it, is that it also brings in our ecosystems, so the relationship, that tier one relationship we both have within Microsoft. So when you start looking at a solution that the business owner wants, they want to be able to say I need cloud, I need on prem, I need backup recovery, and so by going through GreenLake they can encompass, we have a broader ecosystem that we're able to bring in versus just single thread in these discussions where you're going in and selling a data protection story and leaving but you didn't solve that broader customer problem, and with GreenLake, they are solving that overall problem. >> Yeah, I'd just like to say nothing really happens until you make a sale. You talked about some of the growth earlier. But why Veeam? Obviously you're getting some traction in the market but there's a lot of players out there that you could partner with. And you do partner with others. But why Veeam? What makes Veeam so special? >> I think one, inherently we are lock-step in agreement of the over-arching strategy, we talked about hybrid, we talked about portfolio. Two is we've got the engagement at all levels of our organization, which all stems truly from having a unified roadmap. Innovation has to happen at the roadmap level and you need to be lock-step aligned through the value chain in the way you take it to market, the way you align your sellers, the way you deliver a value proposition that truly is valuable to our customers. It's proven from our IDC research that customers who are deploying and purchasing HPE and Veeam solutions are seeing a 250 plus percent ROI on that investment. So there's this huge customer benefit, and why not go bigger and go bigger and go bigger with them. >> (Dave) Same question to you Carey. So why HPEE, why is HPEE so special as a partner? >> I think HPE first and foremost, being that first partner that came to us to want to go all in, as Jeff was talking about, from day one, and top down. So we're not just working with a department of HPE we have it from Antonio, from Jim Jackson down the stack in the organization. We were aligned from day one. They lead with data protection, it's no longer, it's a a nice to have, it's a requirement in every one of their sales processes. We're their lead partner that they have in data protection. And what we'd been able to do and have that enterprise visibility by them assisting us on our journey. So, from across the board, whether it's through management, through technology, or just in true go-to-market, they're by far our number one partner that we have on our sell-with motion. >> So Jeff, I want to talk to the group about GreenLake. And Carey, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as well. What are the challenges that go into a consumption-based model for a company that's traditionally sold products. As part of this overall move in all industries, all sectors, from a product to a services orientation. How do introduce metrics that are associated with the service? Because it used to be you just sold a product. And the metrics for storage are different from the metrics from backup, different from the metrics from compute. So as you've gone to GreenLake, because I love GreenLake, what kind of specialized, or specific types of things, how are you selling it to try to tie that service into the business outcomes that your customers are trying to see? >> Well clearly, I believe, some of our first wins, early wins we were able to monitor and metric the value the customers were getting, the service levels they've received and so we have a number of different methods of capturing the data, the empirical data, on the service levels and being able to use that to then, use that in the selling motion to be able to articulate the experience and the expectations that come with that. >> What are some of the harder problems that your customers are asking you to solve? And how are you approaching it together? >> Well I think that what we're talking about with GreenLake here is a real hard problem to solve, right? Consumpton based across geographic regions, across different technologies, on prem, off prem, hybrid. And we don't have another partner that we can go to market with when we hear this from the customer. So when we hear it, we know that we can lean in. And we truly are, to follow up from your question, is the fact is that HPEE is solving all this and then bringing us in as their number one partner, is the differentiator that we love. So solving those problems at an enterprise level, and at a commercial level and doing it with one partner is easy, right? We're shortening the sales cycle, increasing the value to the customer. >> Yeah, one thing I have to say and it's always, complexity is always a problem and an issue, right? So it will always be a problem and an issue and we will always be striving to improve and improve the complexity. But you know, Veeam, we're super simple, right? And we, especially when you look in our HCI portfolio and that's all about driving simplicity, if you will, in a way you can deploy IT, you can scale it. So I think complexity is, and will always be a problem. But it's a given too and it will always be there. And we will always be striving to make it even easier and easier for our joint customers. >> Well one of the challenges that you face, especially as you go to a sevices-only model, is how do you put a price on the outcomes that you're delivering as opposed to the price on the assets that the person is taking? So I think one of the biggest challenges, and it sounds like you guys are pretty close to getting this together, but it's part of a broader portfolio, is where does this, let's put it slightly differently. We've talked about this before in some of the other interviews. backup is moved from a have to have it, for maybe compliance or it just makes good sense to have it, to a strategic business capability for a company that's increasingly differentiating itself on it's data assets. That moves this conversation about, as a service, into a different group and a different, different level. And that's what I'm wondering. Those metrics have got to be a big part of the conversation. Because the entire organization is now recognizing backup is more than just a bolt-on. >> Yeah. One example, one of our close partners, we're here with them, Island. So, disaster recovery as a service, right? They standardize on Nimble and Veeam and together, that combination to them was good enough to build their business on. So there's inherent value and we expect to continue to grow and be able to expose that value. 'Cause we believe more and more customers, not just your pure enterprises but, from your mid-market all the way up, can be able to utilize and see that value and experience it. >> Just a point of clarification if I could on the HCI piece. Specifically around SimpliVity. So SimpliVity was known for it's backup use cases. >> (Jeff) Sure. Still is. >> So where does Veeam and SimpliVity fit, versus Simplivity solo. >> Yeah, yeah. Well first and foremost yes, Simplivity has inherent, great data availability features, inherent in it. That's core to it. But in reality, for customers, let's say a mixed environment, whether it be virtualized, non-vitrualized, there are inherent benefits to having Veeam in addition to SimpliVity. Another example would be customers who want to really have the access to be able to do specific file restores. So we see capabilities in running Veeam in parallel with SimpliVity. Actually I see a lot of customers that are deploying SimpliVity are also deploying Veeam and there, it's an additive value that they're seeing. And they're able to parse out features and functionality and be able to increase their level of value that couldn't be done, just purely from a Simplivity standpoint alone. >> All right Carey, we'll give you the final word. >> The final word is-- >> Bumper sticker on VeeamON. >> (laughing) >> Bumper stickers. >> I would say that, what we're doing here with HPEE, we would say we're in the first inning. What we're seeing on the innovations that we have coming out later this year with HPEE, coming into next year, and we're just thrilled to be having them a platinum sponsor of VeeamON and look forward to another successful year. >> Awesome. Guys thanks so much for coming on. I got to ask you, Boston-based person, Bruins fan? >> (Carey) Bruins, yes. >> You worried about Tuulka, at all, a 12 day layoff? >> (Carey) Nope. >> No problem. >> (Carey) Nope, Chara's going to be nice and rested and-- >> (Dave) Chara, more Chara or less Chara? >> I'm going to, yes well. I got to take more thanks. >> Okay, all right, good. We'll see, we'll see. Go Bruins. All right guys thanks so much for coming out and thank you for watching. Keep it right there we'll be back with our next guest shortly right after this break. You're watching theCUBE from VeeamON, 2019 from Miami. Be right back.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread hat >> and welcome back to the Red Hat Summit. We're live in the B, C, E C, the Boston Convention and Exposition Center, along with two metal men. I'm John Walls were joined by Stephanie Cheer us. Who is the vice president? GM and Red had Enterprise. Lennox? Yes. Good to see here. >> Nice to see you teach >> back in Boston, right back >> in Boston. Home turf. >> You feel at home here? I would give you a big day for you. Right. Relic comes out generally available now a big impact on the marketplaces. Talk about that baby that you've given birth through here today. >> Wear so excited and, you know, having put in all the time. Part of this is representing all the work the team has done and the communities have done. When you think about all the work that goes into a Lennox distribution, it is everybody. It's the communities, It's the partners. So we released the Red Hat Enterprise Lennox eight beta in November mid November. We've had forty thousand downloads of that beta since November. People who have provided feedback and comments, suggestions, all of that fed into what we've released today as the Red Hat Enterprise Lennox eight. General availability. So it's a big day, and part of it is we're just so proud of how we've done it and what we've done. And we've really redefined what are not the value of an operating system with Red Hat Enterprise on its eight >> Dannic students, even saying earlier. Excuse me still, but you're saying there's many years in the making, right? Twenty fourteen It was That was the last was when. Seven. >> That's right. It's been five years. >> And so Hobart Theatre, editor of Process That You went through especially, you know, through that beta stage of a little interested in that are a lot interested in that. In terms of of the changes that were still made at that time that once you heard from users and actually put it into practice, >> yes, so we one of the things that part of our subscription model is getting feedback from customers. It's critical for us and tow advocate for those asks upstream because, of course, everything we do is done upstream. So this is part of the way we build, I would say relate was quite different in the sense that I focus all the features and functions we put into it into two pockets. We wanted to make sure that it helped customers with all the changes that have happened in the industry, helped them run their business better. So things like, Is it hard to find Lenox skills? How did we build a Web console to make that easier? Is it hard to orchestrate a data center? We put in a new capability that's a rules based engine, as a software is a service offering in every rail subscription that takes all that we have learned in the market to how to run an efficient Lennox data center. And it sends that out an assassin offering toe every rail subscription owner right that helps them be more efficient. And then there's the whole set of features and functions we put in to help customers grow the business things like container tooling so they can take that one step into containers right from the operating system. Application streams pull in new versions, so I look at everything we've done. Is it relate, really focuses on running the business better, more efficiently and helping grow the business. It's combination of those two things, and the feedback has been great, right? The relic Beta was great. Some tweaks, some tuning. Some. I like how this is too hard. Take out the friction. That's what we were working on since November. >> Stephanie. It is fascinating to me because, you know, I remember last year Saturn with the right hat team. They talked about just that. The amount of change that goes in tow. Lennox, you know, talk about, you know, it's twenty one point six million lines of code. Over the last two years, a third of the code base has changed, and it's something that you know, since it's open source. There's a lot of visibility by the community has been coming for years, yet something you've been working on for five years. We know how much change there's been in the industry. You just talk a little bit about how you balance those dynamics of, you know, that the caves of released cycle. I understand there's going to be a very systematic approach going forward, as how releases are how right that looks at things >> and and one of the roles that we see that we play in the industry is sitting between all the innovation and the outlook work that's being done in the communities and the enterprise, customers who need to know that they're going to run this hardware and it's gonna work. They're going to run this application and it's going to work, and we serve to bridge that gap in between. We advocate for our customers upstream. We make sure that innovation has tried true and tested by the time it reaches them in rail and we sit in that bridge. So to your point, we're constantly getting input from customers about things that are critical to them, things like life cycle capabilities. Now in an upstream community, they probably don't care about a ten year life cycle. But if you're running it on the floor of a data center, they do and we bridge that gap, feeding that back and forth, and it is a bit of a balance. We need to make sure we're pulling in the next generation of things that are important. But we're also protecting what's important to accustom, earthy, enterprise level and honestly stew. It's a constant given take and a constant balance. But, you know, there are a few things that we hold on principle one, it will always be upstream first to it will always serve our customers. In the enterprise. We do it on their behalf. So you know, the beauty of open source is everyone can play in the three million communities that exist in all of that innovation, the challenges everyone can play. So now how do you take that and run your business on it? That's where we come in. So this is why it's so important in this subscription, we constantly get that input from customers. >> Yeah, absolutely way. When we look at this face in the cloud world, I'm kind of used tto running on the latest and greatest on platform. Takes care of it. And as we you know, customer state, they're living in that hybrid and multi cloud world, and we need to bridge from the old. Okay, I'm running in minus two because I haven't finished testing it yet. I want to make sure I've got the latest security one of Les trois and care of the latest features. So I need to be ableto balance both of those, and it's challenging. >> It is challenging and to your point balancing, that is, you know, we had focused on relate because we really wanted to change the >> value. >> Um, but now moving forward, What we've heard from customers is it's a real business advantage for them to know when they're going to get a new release so they can time it with their hardware updates and their eyes. V update. So, as you mentioned as we head into rally, much more predictable life cycle will have minor releases every six months, major releases every three years. And, you know, as an engineer, you always say what I want to have this and I want to have this and and then sometimes it can divert your schedule. What we've heard from our customers is No, no, no. My schedule is really important. I need to plan. I need to predict. So now we put the schedule first. Going forward will put in everything we can into that version and prioritize what we can. But schedule became very important customers. So, to your point, predictable life cycle is important in relative, >> so huge impact in the business that way, you're giving them stability and certainty and predictability. Let's talk about the economic impact, if you will, because you did a fascinating study. I DC did it for you about this global economic impact that's being realised by rail. And the figures are there beyond impressive. They're staggering in terms of positive economic contributions. Wouldn't talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I when I think about what we all want to do every day, we all want to have impact. It's not always easy to measure impact. And so when we worked with I D. C. And we asked them to go off and do this study, it really was about measuring and economic impact in the world, and I was even flabbergasted at the numbers. But if you look at all the applications and the software that run on rent had Enterprise Lennox, collectively, it will touch ten trillion dollars of business revenue this year. That's amazing. I think partly partly that speaks to several things. It speaks to the importance of Lennox and the market and where it stands with respect to being running core business and mission critical work made what dollars in sense touch, as well as where the new applications are being written. That's the importance of Lennox. I think it's also an astounding statement to say Lennox is built around an ecosystem. It's built by communities, and when you start to make that self sustaining, that's the kind of impact that it can have. But it's incredible. >> Yeah, I loved we had one of the customers we had already was DBS Bank, and they talked about the financial industry on DH. You know, security and innovation and helping to become a technology company themselves. And it's not sitting in a silo. And they had insourced rather than outsourced, and its partnership with Red Hat that that helps enable a lot of that transformation for, you know, company that people don't necessarily think of, you know, banking as you know, that driver of technology innovation, >> right? And when they looked at when they looked at for customers, for customers who use it just is, you say, because they kind of are now technology companies. How do they look at the value of rail? Roughly, it was about a fifty fifty split between savings and productivity, which feeds into savings and growth right, new revenue being driven. So it really ties back to clinics being Yes, what we run and how do we maximize efficiency for it? And yet how do we grow our business? So it's it's It's absolutely, I mean the use of the software that's being run on Red Hot enterprise Lennox will will reach economic benefits for those customers of a trillion dollars a year. That's huge. That's huge. So it's great. >> Yeah, So out of that ten trillion, I don't know if you could put it in the buckets if you can, but just or maybe the most impressive buckets, if you will, is it through efficiency is the truth time say, visit through better higher production? Uh, I mean, where are those big chunk gains being realised? >> So they provided a breakout of productivity and cost savings in the center and then revenue growth. And honestly, it's a fifty fifty split between savings and growth, and I think that's a huge statement, right about not only what can be done to do cost savings, because that starts to change the way you know everyone starts to think of. A commodity is no once I get into a commodity, I'm going to just save money, and I'm going to pull every cent out. But when its strategic, that's when you grow. And so to me, seeing a fifty percent split pea to and what I can save with it and what I can grow with it. The operating system is anything but a commodity, right? It's a complete strategic decision for a company. So it was great, >> right? So Stephanie would talk. Talk about economic impact. Something I always loved to talk about at this show is what's happening with jobs. Six year we've been doing this show in the early years. It was that Lennox operating model is just becoming pervasive. You look at what happened in the cloud, lookit what topping and software to find, whether it be networking or other piece of the environment. If you understand Lennox, chances are those operating models or what they're using in your that time to get up to speed on those new skills is going to be smaller, can talk about what you're seeing kind of thie ecosystem of jobs, not just, you know, red hat. You know the customers using it, but but even beyond. >> Yeah, so we see that. I mean that this study will show that but nine hundred thousand jobs are being driven by the rail ecosystem. That's massive. That's massive. And and while many of those companies air global, a lot of that is domestic. So I think that as we look at the skills group, that air moving forward and you look at even the operating system adoption and they're operating system adoption of Lennox and those skills customers right now are saying Lennox skills are hard to find. We're working to make it easier. But nine hundred thousand jobs, that's all. That's a lot of work being driven by this ecosystem alone. >> Well, you said jobs where you just talked about difficulty in some respects. What about educating the modern workforce or or an updated workforce? I mean, what kind of impact can you have on that? Or do you want tohave on that in terms of finding the right people in order to keep driving you forward? Because I think a lot of people share that concern is just coming up with that, that brain power, if you will, that that firepower to keep this innovative cycle to keep it rolling like it like it is. Where you going for that? How you doing that? >> You know, I think I think there's a couple. There's clearly things we can do in the product we added in something called Web Console. It's built off the upstream called cockpit, but it comes in and it is. You know, you can run your Lennox service now from your phone off of a Web portal, and it'Ll be shown in a demo tomorrow morning, which is is just the coolest toe Launch up your system Jets grade, and we worked very closely to make sure that the gooey and the feel and the way it was done with similar toe windows. Because many companies certainly have Windows installations, they have Lennox installations. The more we can make the most of the skills that customers have and be able to have that be cross compatible is really important, and clearly we have. The market has recognized the importance of developers not only as influencers but developed, but developing the next applications. What will come down the pipeline in? Let's face it, many customers, we're seeing all. I didn't know my developer was doing this, but they're coming in with real, you know, growth opportunities for the business. So we have really put in a play for developers. We have developer subscriptions that they can use. So a very focused effort with our team to reach out to the developers, make sure they have the tools they need, the capabilities they need. We've put in build a pod, man and scope eo right into the rail sub so that, you know, they can start to build their containers right from the OS. >> All right, So, Stephanie, we've talked a bunch about relate. And I know that Hunza session you're going to be in the keynote today. >> Yes. Give us >> a You know, a key nugget or two that, you know, it might be overlooked if if if you didn't shine a light on it, you know, love to get your take on what you're geeking out on when it comes to relate. >> Yeah, So I'm actually one of the things and and I know you'LL have a deep dive on this later. One of the things that I love about it is we have pulled in This relate launch is very much to me. A Portfolio launch Redhead is a portfolio company of enterprise software. It's not a product company. We're not just an OS company, although that's important. We're portfolio company. So what you'LL see in the relative announcement is really how it ties to the rest of the portfolio. Red Hat Enterprise Lennox Core OS As part of feeding into open shift, that's important. Having universal base image be the way we allow developers. We allow eyes ves to build containers that are ready to deliver that well experience on open shift Iran. Well, that's huge for us. Pulling in capabilities like management within sites, pulling that directly into every sub. Every rail. Six seven eight sub. Right to me, we've taken Rail eight is the first real step where we launch a product, but it's a portfolio launch. And, uh, and that's partly why it makes me so excited, right? I mean, being in relics like being being in all the products, that red hat, because where the foundation of it, that's what I hope people walk away feeling right that the OS is important and its core to the whole portfolio that red hat can deliver, >> but we look forward to the keynote tonight. Yes. You're gonna knock it out of the park as you always do. Thanks for joining us. And maybe if you have a little expertise on the side, give Brad Stevenson call Celtics coach. I think you could use a win right now. Every celtics on thin ice right now, but Red Hat very much Bruins once. All right? Okay. All right, >> I'll take it. >> It's a win, right, Stephanie? Thank you. Thanks, Joe. It's a pleasure to have you back with more for the redhead summit. You're watching the cue. >> How well

>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create 2019, Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we've been here all day, talking about lots of very inspiring, educational, collaborative folks, and we're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Anne Gentle, developer experience manager for Cisco DevNet, Anne, thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE today. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So this event, everything's like, rockstar start this morning with Susie, Mandy, and the team with the keynotes, standing room only, I know when I was walking out. >> I loved it, yes. >> Yes, there's a lot of bodies in here, it's pretty toasty. >> Yeah. >> The momentum that you guys have created, pun intended. >> Oh, yes. >> No, I can't take credit for that, is really, you can feel it, there's a tremendous amount of collaboration, this is your second create? >> Second create, yeah, so I've been with DevNet itself for about year and a half, and started at Cisco about three years ago this month, but I feel like developer experience is one of my first loves, when I really started to understand how to advocate for the developer experience. So DevNet just does a great job of not only advocating within Cisco, but outside of Cisco as well, so we make sure that their voice is heard, if there's some oddity with an API, which, you know, I'm really into API design, API style, we can kind of look at that first, and kind of look at it sideways and then talk to the teams, okay is there a better way to think about this from a developer standpoint. >> It's great, I love the API love there, it's going around a lot here. DevNet create a cloud native vibe that's kind of integrating and cross-pollinating into DevNet, Cisco proper. You're no stranger to cloud computing early days, and ecosystems that have formed naturally and grown, some morph, some go different directions, so you're involved in OpenStack, we know that, we've talked before about OpenStack, just some great successes as restarts, restarts with OpenStack ultimately settled in what it did, the CNCF, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, is kind of the cloud native OpenStack model. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You've seen the communities grow, and the market's maturing. >> Definitely, definitely. >> So what's your take on this, because it creates kind of a, the creator builder side of it, we hear builder from Amazon. >> Yeah, I feel like we're able to bring together the standards, one of the interesting things about OpenStack was okay, can we do open standards, that's an interesting idea, right? And so, I think that's partially what we're able to do here, which is share, open up about our experiences, you know, I just went to a talk recently where the SendGrid former advocate is now working more on the SDK side, and he's like, yeah the travel is brutal, and so I just kind of graduated into maintaining seven SDKs. So, that's kind of wandering from where you were originally talking, but it's like, we can share with each other not only our hardships, but also our wins as well, so. >> API marketplaces is not a new concept, Apache was acquired-- >> Yes. >> By a big company, we know that name, Google. But now it's not just application programming interface marketplaces, with containers and server space, and microservices. >> Right. >> The role of APIs growing up on a whole other level is happening. >> Exactly. >> This is where you hear Cisco, and frankly I'm blown away by this, at the Cisco Live, that all the portfolio (mumbles) has APIs. >> True, yes, exactly. >> This is just a whole changeover, so, APIs, I just feel a whole other 2.0 or 3.0 level is coming. >> Absolutely. >> What's your take on this, because-- >> So, yeah, in OpenStack we documented like, two APIs to start, and then suddenly we had 15 APIs to document, right, so, learn quick, get in there and do the work, and I think that that's what's magical about APIs, is, we're learning from our designs in the beginning, we're bringing our users along with us, and then, okay, what's next? So, James Higginbotham, I saw one of his talks today, he's really big in the API education community, and really looking towards what's next, so he's talking about different architectures, and event-driven things that are going to happen, and so even talking about, well what's after APIs, and I think that's where we're going to start to be enabled, even as end users, so, sure, I can consume APIs, I'm pretty good at that now, but what are companies building on top of it, right? So like GitHub is going even further where you can have GitHub actions, and this is what James is talking about, where it's like, well the API enabled it, but then there's these event-driven things that go past that. So I think that's what we're starting to get into, is like, APIs blew up, right? And we're beyond just the create read. >> So, user experience, developer experience, back to what you do, and what Mandy was talking about. You can always make it easier, right? And so, as tools change, there's more tools, there's more workloads, there's more tools, there's more this, more APIs, so there's more of everything coming. >> Yeah. >> It's a tsunami to the developer, what are some of the trends that you see to either abstract away complexities, and, or, standardize or reduce the toolchains? >> Love where you're going with this, so, the thing is, I really feel like in the last, even, since 2010 or so, people are starting to understand that REST APIs are really just HTTP protocol, we can all understand it, there's very simple verbs to memorize. So I'm actually starting to see that the documentation is a huge part of this, like a huge part of the developer experience, because if, for one, there are APIs that are designed enough that you can memorize the entire API, that blows me away when people have memorized an API, but at the same time, if you look at it from like, they come to your documentation every day, they're reading the exact information they can give, they're looking at your examples, of course they're going to start to just have it at their fingertips with muscle memory, so I think that's, you know, we're starting to see more with OpenAPI, which is originally called Swagger, so now the tools are Swagger, and OpenAPI is the specification, and there's just, we can get more done with our documentation if we're able to use tools like that, that start to become industry-wide, with really good tools around them, and so one of the things that I'm really excited about, what we do at DevNet, is that we can, so, we have a documentation tool system, that lets us not only publish the reference information from the OpenAPI, like very boring, JSON, blah blah blah, machines can read it, but then you can publish it in these beautiful ways that are easy to read, easy to follow, and we can also give people tutorials, code examples, like everything's integrated into the docs and the site, and we do it all from GitHub, so I don't know if you guys know that's how we do our site from the back side, it's about 1000 or 2000 GitHub repos, is how we build that documentation. >> Everything's going to GitHub, the network configurations are going to GitHub, it's programmable, it's got to be in GitHub. >> Yes, it's true, and everything's Git-based right? >> So, back to the API question, because I think I'm connecting some dots from some of the conversations we had, we heard from some of the community members, there's a lot of integration touchpoints. Oh, a call center app on their collaboration talks to another database, which talks to another database, so these disparate systems can be connected through APIs, which has been around for a while, whether it's an old school SOAP interface, to, you know, HTTP and REST APIs, to full form, cooler stuff now. But it's also more of a business model opportunity, because the point is, if your API is your connection point-- >> Yes. >> There's potential business deals that could go on, but if you don't have good documentation, it's like not having a good business model. >> Right, and the best documentation really understands a user's task, and so that's why API design is so important, because if you need to make sure that your API looks like someone's daily work, get the wording right, get the actual task right, make sure that whatever workflow you've built into your API can be shown through in any tutorial I can write, right? So yeah, it's really important. >> What's the best practice, where should I go? I want to learn about APIs, so then I'm going to have a couple beers, hockey's over, it's coming back, Sharks are going to the next round, Bruins are going to the next round, I want to dig into APIs tonight. Where do I go, what are some best practices, what should I do? >> Yeah, alright, so we have DevNet learning labs, and I'm telling you because I see the web stats, like, the most popular ones are GitHub, REST API and Python, so you're in good company. Lots of people sitting on their couches, and a lot of them are like 20 minutes at a time, and if you want to do like an entire set that we've kind of curated for you all together, you should go to developer.cisco.com/startnow, and that's basically everything from your one-on-ones, all the way up to, like, really deep dive into products, what they're meant to do, the best use cases. >> Okay, I got to ask you, and I'll put you on the spot, pick your favorite child. Gold standard, what's the best APIs that you like, do you think are the cleanest, tightest? >> Oh, best APIs I like, >> Best documented? >> So in the technical writing world, the gold standard that everyone talks about is the Stripe documentation, so that's in financial tech, and it's very clean, we actually can do something like it with a three column layout-- >> Stripe (mumbles) payment gateway-- >> Stripe is, yeah, the API, and so apparently, from a documentation standpoint, they're just, people just go gaga for their docs, and really try to emulate them, so yeah. And as far as an API I use, so I have a son with type one diabetes, I don't know if I've shared this before, but he has a continuous glucose monitor that's on his arm, and the neat thing is, we can use a REST API to get the data every five minutes on how his blood sugar is doing. So when you're monitoring this, to me that's my favorite right now, because I have it on my watch, I have it on my phone, I know he's safe at school, I know he's safe if he goes anywhere. So it's like, there's so many use cases of APIs, you know? >> He's got the policy-based program, yeah. >> He does, yes, yes. >> Based upon where's he's at, okay, drink some orange juice now, or, you know-- >> Yes, get some juice. >> Get some juice, so, really convenient real-time. >> Yes, definitely, and he, you know, he can see it at school too, and just kind of, not let his friends know too much, but kind of keep an eye on it, you know? >> Automation. >> Yeah, exactly, exactly. >> Sounds like great cloud native, cool. You have a Meraki hub in your house? >> I don't have one at home. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I need to set one up, so yeah, we're terrible net nannies and we monitor everything, so I think I need Meraki at home. (laughing) >> It's a status symbol now-- >> It is now! >> We're hearing in the community. Here in the community of DevNet, you got to have a Meraki hub in your, switch in your house. >> It's true, it's true. >> So if you look back at last year's Create versus, I know we're just through almost day one, what are some of the things that really excite you about where this community of now, what did they say this morning, 585,000 strong? Where this is going, the potential that's just waiting to be unlocked? >> So I'm super excited for our Creator awards, we actually just started that last year, and so it's really neat to see, someone who won a Creator award last year, then give a talk about the kind of things he did in the coming year. And so I think that's what's most exciting about looking a year ahead for the next Create, is like, not only what do the people on stage do, but what do the people sitting next to me in the talks do? Where are they being inspired? What kind of things are they going to invent based on seeing Susie's talk about Wi-Fi 6? I was like, someone invent the thing so that when I go to a hotel, and my kids' devices take all the Wi-Fi first, and then I don't have any, someone do that, you know what I mean, yeah? >> Parental rights. >> So like, because you're on vacation and like, everybody has two devices, well, with a family of four-- [John] - They're streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime-- >> Yeah, yeah! >> Hey, where's my video? >> Like, somebody fix this, right? >> Maybe we'll hear that next year. >> That's what I'm saying, someone invent it, please. >> And thank you so much for joining John and me on theCUBE this afternoon, and bringing your wisdom and your energy and enthusiasm, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> For John Furrier, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media Office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Welcome to theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the shows to help extract the signal from the noise, and we are really excited. Oracle OpenWorld's coming up and we have an exclusive here on theCUBE, first time, welcoming Larry to the program. Wait. This is not the Larry I was expecting. Who do we have here? I know, sitting over there, Brian Reagan, CMO of Actifio. Brian, great to see you, >> Stu. >> I feel like I have a differently Larry than I was expecting. >> Stu, it's always a pleasure to be here, and I mean this is a big day. Obviously we take, you know, databases very seriously. We take Oracle OpenWorld very seriously. It's an important show for us, and we're excited to bring Larry the Bear back for the second year in a row at Oracle OpenWorld. Many might know him as the Database Beast, and so, he's excited to be here. What other Larry were you expecting, just out of curiosity? >> Well, we're talking about Oracle and database at the center. There's a certain Larry that most people expect. I was in Oracle OpenWorld once and Larry didn't show up because he was at the boat show. The boat race. But- - >> Larry the Bear is a big boat fan, too, but that's actually one of the reasons why we're excited to be out there. The other Larry I think that you might be referring to, the other Larry is how they refer to him out there too, is really Larry the Bear's hero, and if you think about a database beast, someone who's really dedicated their lives to databases, they really wanna meet the one and only King of Databases. And so, you know, he wants to live his dream next week, and meet the one and only Larry, his namesake, and really bond. >> Well, he, you know, having been to that show a few times, they are ecstatic to talk about databases. You've just got, you know, non-stop DBAs geeking out, digging into the weeds, and, you know, database, we've said many times on theCUBE, is the stickiest of applications in the environment, but, you know, there's a lot of money spent on this and a lot of manpower, so, you know, taming that environment is definitely a huge challenge for enterprises. >> Absolutely. We think the same, and in fact, Larry believes that databases- - The only thing stickier is probably like a big vat of honey. So, this is a bear who was- - Have you seen The Revenant, Stu? >> I'm familiar with it, and it has me a little bit worried. >> Yeah, that really was Larry a couple years ago. I mean, it was just, you know, he was untamed. He was going out of control like many databases in a lot of enterprises, until he discovered Actifio, and really discovered what could become of giving him back time in the day to hunt for salmon or pick berries, or whatever it is that bears do in their free time when they're not dealing with large databases. I mean, that's what Actifio brought to him, and he really wants to share that next week out at Oracle OpenWorld. >> Okay, and tell me, you said Larry got to know Actifio, where did Larry come from? >> So, Larry's originally from Chicago. >> Big Bears fan. >> And Cubs, go Cubs. >> He's relocated to Boston now that he's joined Actifio, and he's really taken with the Bruins. I think he's excited for this season, but Larry has been really in the enterprise for his entire life, and has probably grappled with some of the biggest databases you've seen. Again, this is the database beast. Yeah, it used to be bad. >> Alright, Larry, anything else we should know about your background and what has you so excited about the show? >> Yeah, no, that's a good point. So, among the many things that Larry is eager to do next week, is to find out from others, you know, just what type of database beast they have in their data center. And in fact, he invites people to our booth number 3105, to come and share their experiences. In fact, for those who mention theCUBE and his appearance on the cube, we've got a special giveaway for them. But we're eager to- - We and Larry are eager to hear what people are dealing with out there in the database community and understand how Actifio can really help them solve their biggest Oracle challenges. >> Great. Any final things we should know about, Larry, before we send it? >> Obviously, I mean this is a- - You know, Larry is smarter than the average bear, Stu, and that's one of the reasons why he joined Actifio. He comes from a long line of IT centric bears. I mean, obviously, his cousin Smokey in the D.R. Arena. Yoga- - Yogi, rather. So it's, you know, very long bear history. He's excited about Oracle OpenWorld. He couldn't be more excited about being on theCUBE. He's been talking about it for weeks, and we're just excited that you were able to fit him in. >> Alright, well Larry, I hope your dream comes true and that you get to meet the other Larry at the show. Brian, always a pleasure to catch up with you. >> You too, Stu. >> Once again, thank you for joining us here on theCUBE. Be sure to check out theCUBE.net for all of our coverage and see us, and some of the interesting guests we get on throughout the industry. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE, covering Veeamon 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Chicago everybody, the Windy City, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage and we're here day two at Veeamon 2018, theCUBE's second year doing Veeamon, and I'm Dave Vellante, with my cohost, Stu Miniman. Patrick Osborne is here, the newly minted VP and GM of big data and secondary storage. >> And CUBE alumni. >> HPE and many time CUBE alumni, did you get a sticker? >> Yeah, it's already on my laptop. >> Oh, awesome, great to see you again. >> Good to see you guys. >> Thanks so much for coming on, always fun at Veeamon. >> Yep. >> They have a big presence. Your show, HPE Discover, they painted the Chi-Town green. >> Patrick: Yep. >> What's going on at the show for you guys? >> So a huge partner for us, in our ecosystem, as you guys know, HPE and the world of virtualized workloads, like, you know, we definitely own the space in terms of the number of Veeams sitting on our infrastructure and they are a great partner. You know, we've got thousands of customers, and I think what we're seeing, too, is that as Veeam grows up into the midsize and enterprise space, that is, you know, that's where our wheelhouse is. And so we're getting a lot of customer interactions in that space, and then, with some of our offerings around Nimble and SimpliVity, where they play very well in the commercial segments, that's a great way for us to go grab new logos, be present in the channel. So it's a really good partnership for us on both ends. >> I definitely want to understand what's going on in big data, but before we get there, let's talk a little bit about secondary storage and your point of view there. We know that data protection is moving way up on the list of CXO priorities, we also know there's a dissonance in the customer base, between the expectations of how much automation is actually there from the line of business, versus what IT can deliver. >> Patrick: Yeah, yeah. >> And so there's this gap and now you have multi-cloud coming on in a big way, digital transformation, and so it feels like backup and recovery and data protection is transforming. Throw in security and it even complicates it further. What's your point of view on what's going on in this mix? >> Well, certainly the sands are shifting in the secondary storage market. I think because of a heightened customer expectation in this area, whether it's, you know, I want to do more with my data, running things that we do at Veeam, like test data, automation, Sandboxing, security, you know, ransomware. All those are higher level data services than just what people were doing in the past around backup and recovery. So for us, we're really focused a lot on automation right in this space. The death of backup and recovery in that traditional space is essentially caused by comPlexxity, right? So automate or die in this space, nobody wants to deal with backup, right? What you want is outcomes, and what we're doing is, for our product line, we've got sort of this three-tiered mantra, of predictive, cloud-ready and timeless. So we want to be able to, through platforms like InfoSite, be able to heavily, heavily automate all those activities. Cloud-ready, because, you know, as we talked before, it's a hybrid world. People, especially in secondary storage, want to have some data on-prem, and certainly a lot of it for archival and retention off-prem. And then, timeless is sort of this scenario around, even though I'm operating a data center, I want the purchasing experience to be elastic, and like, again, the cloud, right? So consumption-based as a service. So that's what we're trying to bring to the market for secondary storage and storage in general. >> Dave: Awesome. >> Patrick, as I look at this space, you talk about that hybrid, multi-cloud world that we talked about. The two big, main things are data and my applications. So you talked a bit about the data, connect for us, kind of the applications and things, cloud native and 12 factor microservices, versus traditional applications. And you've got that whole spectrum, what are you seeing from your customers and how are you helping them? >> Yeah, so, we're definitely seeing a lot of the tech leading customers in the enterprise from HPE, you know, the big logos, right? They're out there disrupting themselves, disrupting industry, are massively betting on analytics, right? So, they've moved certainly from databases to batch now, it's all, you know, I think people call it fast data, streaming analytics, Kafka, Spark. So we're seeing, that part of our business that HPE's growing, like, non-sequentially, right? So it's really good business for us. But what's going on right now, is that the customers who are doing this, these are all net new apps. Kubernetes, you know, new styles of application, it's not a rip and replace, it's more of an augmentation scenario, where you're providing new services on top of existing apps. So that is very new and I think one of the things we'll see over the next couple of years is, how do I protect those workloads? How do I provide multi-cloud for them? So it's an interesting space, it's very nascent, a lot of tech-heavy investment going on for the, you know, the big players in the market. But that's going to have a long tail into the mid range. >> How will the data protection architecture sort of change for those new emerging applications? You know, maybe IoT is another piece of that. And maybe, where does your partnership with Veeam fit into that? >> Yeah, so we are having a number of strategy discussions on that this morning, you know. And I think that space is, you know, there's a lot of identification that has to go on. Do I want to back it up, do I care? Right, are those persistent streams? Or that IoT data that's coming in, do I really have to back it up at the end of the day or can I back up the results? So, a lot of it is not just an availability issue, it's certainly a data management issue. But a lot of the tools that we would need to do that, today, they're focused on bare-metal, VM wear, virtualization, a lot of stuff that hasn't been written yet, right? So I think there's a lot of actual tech development that has to go on in this space and I think we're kind of poised together as partners to deliver in that area the next couple years. >> You guys have this tagline, "We Make Hybrid IT Simple." >> Patrick: Yes. >> IT, you know-- >> Patrick: Very quantifiable. >> It ain't simple. (laughter) So, where does storage fit into that equation? >> Yeah, the stats that blow my mind was, I think IBC came out with this, was that there's essentially around 500 million apps in the data center today. And then, in any sort of spectrum of bare-metal, being virtualized, maybe being containerized, in the next four years there's going to be 500 million net new apps, right? So that's like, it's mind blowing, in terms of, most people have a flat budget, maybe a little increase. So you think that you're doubling the amount of apps you have and all the services around it. So for us, the automation piece is absolutely key, right? So anything we can do with InfoSite as a platform, we're going to be extending that to other products, you see we've done it for 3PAR, we'll be bringing that experience. But anything we can do around automation, analytics, that's going to take a lot of the mystery and comPlexxity out of managing these apps and services, I think is a win for the customers, and that's why they're going to buy into the platforms. >> Yeah, it's like, imagine if you're a young family, you've got two kids and you have twins. >> Patrick: Yeah. (laughter) >> Uh-oh. (laughs) >> Or you decide to have two more, like I did. (laughter) >> Patrick, we've been talking about intelligence in the storage world for decades. >> Yes. >> Why is it real, you know, more real and different now, than it was in some of the previous generations? >> Yeah, I think, you know, some of the techniques... So, we've had systems that have called home and brought telemetry home forever, right? But I think what's going on is that, as you take the tools that we've developed, and a lot of them are new, right, that are allowing you to do this, it's the practition of the data science, which is like the key, at the end of the day. InfoSite is an amazing piece of technology, a lot of the magic is in the way that you set up your teams, and to be able to take that on, right? So, it's no longer a product manager, an engineering guy, support person in a different organization, right? What we have is what's called a peak team, right? Which just takes all the functions, brings them together with a data scientist, to be able to take a look at, how can I do machine learning, AI, a more predictive model, to actually take use of this data, right? And I think the techniques and the organizational design is the big change that's happened over the last couple of years. Data's always been there, right? But now we know what to do with that. >> Yeah, and like you said before, the curve is reshaping, it's not this linear Moore's Law curve anymore. >> Patrick: Yeah. >> It's this exponential curve. >> Patrick: Exactly. >> I can't even draw it anymore you know, it used to be easy, just put the dotted line straight out, now it's twisting. So, that increases the need obviously, for automation. Now talk about how HPE's automation play is differentiable in the marketplace. >> So I think a couple of things from a differentiated perspective. Obviously we talked a lot about InfoSite as a platform, as a portfolio company, we're definitely trying to take out the friction, in terms of the deployment and automation of some of these big data environments. So our mission is to be able to, like you would stand up some analytic workloads in the public cloud, to provide that same experience, on-prem, right? And essentially be the broker for that user experience. So that's an area that we're going to differentiate, and then, you know, in general, there's not that many mega portfolio companies, right, anymore. And I feel like, that we're exploiting that for our customers, bringing together compute networking and storage. And certainly on the automation side. So you know, for us, I really feel that you're no longer going to be buying on horizontal lines anymore. You know, best of breed servers, best of breed networking, best of breed storage, but bringing together a complete, vetted stack for a set of workloads, from a vendor like HPE. >> Yeah, and it was just announced, the deal's not closed yet, but just to mention to the audience, HPE just made an acquisition of Plexxi, a networking specialist-- >> Patrick: Yeah, a good friend, too, Rich Napolitano. >> Rich Napolitano. Just this week, which is interesting, because that brings cloud scale to some of the hyperconvergence infrastructure. It's essentially hyperconverge networking, so really interested to see how that plays out. HPE has made a number of really effective acquisitions over the last several years, starting really with 3PAR, was the one. Clearly Aruba, you know, the Nimble acquisition, you know, SimpliVity, so, SGI. So some really strong, both tactical and strategic moves for HPE, really interested to see how Plexxi sorts out. Okay, we got to talk sports for a minute. I asked Peter McKay this question, I asked his boss, some sports fans, if you were Robert Kraft, would you have traded Tom Brady? >> (sharp inhale) No. >> No way? >> No way, no way. >> Okay, that's consistent with McKay. >> Yeah, no way, that's like trading Montana, that didn't work out. >> That did work out, right? They traded Montana, then they won another Superbowl. >> Yeah, I know, I mean, I think, for me, he's an icon and then he's still operating at maximum efficiency, which is amazing, but I think he got a lot of legs in him. >> What do you think of the... Well hopefully he stays, hopefully he does play 'til 45. What do you think of the Garoppolo trade, though? Are you disappointed that they didn't get more, or do you think it was the right move to hang on, just in case Brady went down again? >> I think it's the right move at the end of the day, right? You're not going to get much from him anyways, and they're certainly not going to pay him out as a backup quarterback. What I don't like, though, is the fact that he's gone to the 49ers, and that's where most of my engineering team is in the Bay Area. So, to have to deal with yahoo 49ers fans, you know, for the next couple years, is going to be painful. But it's good, it's a good renewed rivalry. >> So you're not a-- >> Celtics, Warriors, you know, Patriots, Niners. >> You're not an instant transplanted 49ers fan, because of Garoppolo, right? >> Patrick: No, absolutely not. >> He's a carpet-bagger, right? >> He's out, he's off the team, he's out of the house. >> I love it, okay, Bruins were a big disappointment this year. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We thought that, you know, the Celtics were super exciting, let's go there, I mean. You know, you watched the Celtics early in the year, 'cause your like, after Hayward went down, you're like, kind of' we were all walking around like this. And then you-- >> I felt like, it's like where Kennedy was shot, right? I know exactly where I was, right? >> Right, and you had people blaming Danny Ainge for, like, making a move, I'm like, come on, guys. And you see what happened with the young players, and then they sort of tailed off a little bit, they were struggling, you know, Ky was trying to find his way and now they're the exciting team. Up to on Cleveland, I mean, you got to believe that Lebron is going to step up his game with a little home cooking. But let's assume for a second that they get by Cleveland (laughs) which will be a huge task. I mean, I don't think there's anybody in the NBA who can stop Kevin Durant, but I'd love to see Marcus Smart try. >> So two things in that scenario. One is that, who needs Kyrie Irving more right now, Cleveland or Boston, right? (laughter) Which is amazing, can you imagine saying that a couple months ago? It blows my mind. And then, for me, it's a revamping of the NBA, right? If you get the Celtics versus the Warriors in that style of play, I mean, it's definitely, it's changed the whole game, right? Shooting guards, ballers, I think it's fantastic to see, you know, a whole new style of play in the NBA. >> It's so exciting to see the Celtics back in. >> Team basketball, defense, passing, all of it, it's great. >> And ESPN is losing their minds, they don't know what to do. Stephen A Smith doesn't know what to say. >> Patrick: ESPN Live. >> He's actually pissed I think, yeah. (laughter) So, now, Stu, you're a Yankees fan, of course, and you know my line on the Yankees. Stu's kind of a weekend Yankees fan. My line on the Yankees is, that sucks you can't beat us in April. (laughs) Here it is in May. >> Dave, I'm just quiet around you, because I know where my paycheck comes from. >> I appreciate that perspective, Stu, okay. >> Patriots win, we're in agreement. >> Think about all these renewed rivalries, it's great. Celtics, Sixers, Red Sox, Yankees, it's unbelievable. >> And like I said, San Francisco-- >> Patrick: Phillies! >> And the Pats. >> The Pats! >> Well Patrick, always a pleasure seeing you, thanks for making time out of your busy schedule. >> Yeah, absolutely, it was great. >> For coming on theCUBE. Alright, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, right after this brief break. You're watching theCUBE, Live from Veeamon 2018. (upbeat electronic music)