>>Mm. Okay, we're back. Digging into the infrastructure to make hybrid work possible. High performance, cost effective, scalable and secure. That's what it's all about. So far, we've covered the rapid migration to WiFi 60 technology and the role that switching is going to play. And now we're gonna get into private five g to do that. Let's welcome Masumi here. Who is vice president and general manager of mobile cable and the Iot business at Cisco and Greg Dorey, who is the vice president of product management for the networking experiences group of Cisco. He's responsible for Catalyst access that whole portfolio enterprise five G Cisco DNA spaces, Cisco, Iasi A lot of stuff there. Uh, Greg gentlemen, welcome, >>Dave. Thank you for having us. >>Yeah, our pleasure. So let's start with you on the topic of private five g five g. What do we need to know about that? And more specifically, you know what's unique about Cisco's private five G? >>So, most importantly, delivering private five G in enterprise terms that's super important to look at five p. Many of our peer groups might have got it wrong. We're looking at private five g with the lens of enterprise. What enterprise really needs is five g going to come and displace a lot of existing technology? Or is it going to help augment the technology that enterprise has an excellent Their digitisation is you need. I wanted to start Dave with the basic premise of hybrid work, and what hybrid work really means. Is it only for knowledge worker or is it for all workers? So we strongly believe hybrid work needs to empower all workers. It's not only connecting remote workers but also bringing people things and space together. And I strongly believe the combination of WiFi six n five g for private network is going to accelerate that journey, bringing people things and space together in a very, very cohesive way. Why are our offer is so unique? We are going to create a continent. Enterprises don't have to make a hard choice. They will be using WiFi technology and five G technology hand in hand without creating a disruption on their policy and identity systems. They don't have to rethink. Do I have to go and build a new background is a common background that will support both WiFi as well as five t Most importantly, delivering this enter offer as a service with the ease of consumption is of operation and trusted environment that they can put their mission critical workloads on. >>I like it. So couple takeaways there are inclusive of all workers, not just knowledge workers non disruptive. Everybody loves to hear that. And of course, the as a service model is key. So let me stay with you. I mean, we can't wait for five g, right? It's lightning fast. They've got super low latency, very high bandwidth. So that's what everybody is excited about. The question, though, is is five g gets introduced. You know it's going to power things like Coyote Networks. Is that going to replace WiFi and legacy Wired broadband? >>Absolutely not. So we see private five years, an augmentation to the enterprise on top of WiFi WiFi. As you heard in the previous conversation, WiFi is bringing more capability with WiFi six and WiFi 16 and five G is going to be yet another augmentation. WiFi and fight. The will coexist within enterprise for many years to come. I would like my friend Greg to talk a little bit about this continuum. Greg. >>Yeah, I think it's sort of like I like to say it's an and not an AR because there's enough use cases out there. Richard Pryor Spectrum And you know, spectrum >>is a constraint, so >>you have private five G, your WiFi six and both offer opportunities. So, for example, in an indoor carpet setting where you're basically connecting your phone for basic browsing or connecting your laptop, WiFi is sufficient. But if it's a process automation, uh, factory where you need seven nines of reliability, private five g is a better technology. Similarly outdoor large areas. It's probably private. Five g right like this, you can have easy handoff between public and private, so it's use case driven, and once it's used case driven, it's going to be an are because there's so many next time use cases, whether it's a are we are drones, self driving cars, you name it right, like And so I think these two technologies five g and Y 5 60 is gonna work hand in hand to deliver awesome outcomes for our customers. >>Yeah, and just the data volumes are gonna be incredible. We always talk about the data volumes. You ain't seen nothing yet is what I always say. But the thing is, every new tech that's introduced into the enterprise, you can almost be certain that is going to bring adoption challenges. And not only that also is going to bring changes in the way you do things. And that brings new complexities from an operational standpoint. So my question is, how are you addressing this with the introduction of five g. >>Dave, this is a fantastic question, and this is why we have spent me and Greg have spent tremendous amount of time to create continual. I'll start with the foundation first, back down. So we have been building this enterprise backbone, supporting what Wild Connexion as well as WiFi Connexion. We wanted to make sure that as private five G camps within enterprise, you don't have to rethink and reimagine your background is the common backbone that will support both WiFi WiFi six WiFi 60 as well as private five g. You rest assured that it is the same backbone that we have heard in the previous section on the Cap 90 that will also support a private key access. The second aspect of private five G is as you build any new technology into enterprise. Oftentimes we get into this trap to get to an outcome. We move fast and we create asylum. And then that silo operation creates a barriers to mainstream it. So upfront we have to think about not creating another silent and how we're doing it. Number one is a device that can connecting to WiFi network or a private five G network. You don't have to reimagine or rethink how I'm going to manage. The identity will create continue of the common identity across the WiFi access or five t access in the same environment. The second aspect of that is, how are we going to reach in all our staff are enterprise staff is well trained with WiFi technology and white technology. Now five G comes with tremendous amount of value and benefit, but it also comes with inherent technology complexity, learning problems. This is where our simple to consume simple to operate model of sass comes to play. That we're going to take all those complexity away. It is a cloud deliberate service enterprise don't have to go through this massive learning car. Adopting this technology last but not list on how you're going to manage your capital. Any new technology and enterprise, Oftentimes you need a huge amount of upfront investment to adopt the technology to get to the other side of getting the outcome. So again, our business model of SARS will allow Enterprise to adopt this new technology and pay as you go model to meet with enterprise needs. Finally, I also wanted to pass to break to touch a little bit more on how we are thinking about this common identity across any access in the enterprise. Greg to your >>So we we talk about it in two different ways. One is a lot of enterprises today use our identity and secure management platform. We call it Isis Co ice platform. And so years and years of policy and identities Excess service, radio service they use, uh, etcetera are plugged in already into our eyes. Right. So if you can share that with this private five years as a service, uh, infrastructure that Muslims been building, we think we'll be able to create that bridge because we're not forcing enterprises to create new identities, a new policy. So thats sort of step one to make it easier. Uh, you also talk through something where, in the case of a public five g network, for example, the It's very convenient because you take your phone out of your pocket and it's connected to the network, right? Was this for WiFi? You have to log into an S I D in your hotel or in your home and home. It's automatic, but that's that logging process that creates friction. And that's a problem, because then you can't be seamless. So we initiated what we call us open roaming, right? Like that's, uh, identity federation that we first created between identity owners. Could be carriers could be, um, anything that anyone who owns an identity and they will share with venues. And so if the sharing happens, then that Onboarding can be automatic and once on boarding is automatic, then it's easy to pass off between five and five G. And so that's again another way in which you can lower the adoption barriers because you share across public private G and WiFi networks. So these are two concrete examples of how we thought about lowering the barriers of adoption. As we enter into this heterogeneous >>world, >>I can't wait. Let's let's talk about how this thing scales in the go to market, what are the most likely or maybe preferred or obvious routes to market for private five g Francisco >>so they stay tuned when when they announce more about it. But I can also assure you that exposed to the spectrum is a challenge for many enterprises when it comes to cellular technology. In some countries, there are more spectrum accessible by enterprise. In many countries, that's not the case. So we have talked to very carefully that how do we bring this offer to the market? Partnering with many service providers and mobile operators, where in countries where we don't have direct access to the spectrum, our partnership with mobile operators that you will hear more about as we come to mobile world Congress is going to allow our enterprise to consume this technology even if they don't have the spectrum in places where the enterprise might have direct spectrum access. We'll also bring in our relativist providers to hide the complexity of the new technology on top of our cell services or a cloud deliberate services. This is the augmentation with the partnership with menaces providers and mobile operators that will ease this journey for enterprises are most important. Primitive in this journey is to keep it simple for enterprise. Make it intuitive and trust it from day one. >>Outstanding. Okay. Assume, Greg, Thanks so much. It's great to have you guys. I really appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you. Mm mm.

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation everyone welcome to this cube conversation here in the cubes Palo Alto Studios we're here with the quarantine crew I'm John for your host we've got a great guest John Madison CMO an EVP of products of Fortinet and today more than ever in this changing landscape accelerating faster and faster certainly as this covin 19 crisis has forced business to realize a lot of the at scale problems are at hand and a lot of things are exposed in terms of problems and opportunities you have to take care of one of them security John thanks for coming on cube and looking forward to chatting about your recent event you had this week and also the updates at Florida thanks for joining me yeah it's great to be here John so more than ever the innovation strategies are not just talking points anymore in board meetings or companies there's they actually have to come out of this pandemic and operate through it with real innovation with actionable outcomes they've got to get their house in order you're seeing projects really focusing in on the at scale problems which is essentially keep the network's run and keep the sick the security fabric in place this is critical path stuff but the innovation coming out of it has to be a growth play for companies and this has been a big thing so you guys are in the middle of it we've chatted about all the four to guard stuff and all this you're seeing all the traffic you're seeing all the all the impact this work at home has forced companies to not only deal to new realities but it's exposed some things they need to double down on and things they need to either get rid of or fix fast what's your take on all this yeah you know I think it took a lot of people by surprise and the first thing I would like to do is you know spank our employees our customers and partners for the work they've done in the last six to seven weeks now what was happening was a lot of customers had built their work from home programs around a certain percentage 5% 10% 15% and that's what they scaled it for then all of a sudden you know everybody had to work from home and so you went from maybe a thousand people to 10,000 or 5,000 to 50,000 they had to scale very quickly because this had to be implemented in hours and days not weeks and months luckily our systems are able to gaile very quickly we can scale using a security processing units which offload the CPU and allow a lot of users simultaneously to access through VPN SSL VPN IPSec VPN and then we have an implementation at home ranging from a very simple Microsoft Wyant all the way to our clients all the way to even off Buda gate firewalls at home so we really did work very hard to make sure that our customers could maintain their business proposition during these times you know I want to get those work at home and I think it's a little big Sdn story and you guys have been on for a long time I mean we've talked with your you and your folks many times around st Wynn and what it means to to have that in place but this work at home those numbers are off the charts strange and this is disruption this was an unforeseen disruption it's not like a hurricane or flood this is real and we've also talked with you guys and your team around the endpoint you know the edge of the network that's the explosion of the billions of edges this is just an industry kind of inside baseball conversation and then also the immersion of the lifestyle we now live in so you have a world where it was inside baseball for this industry now every company and everyone's feeling it this is a huge issue I'm at home I got to protect myself I got data I gotta have a VPN I mean this is a reality that just wasn't seen I mean what do you guys are what are you guys doing in this area well I think it changes that this long-term architect and so you know the past we talked about there being millions of edges and people go how many billions of edges and what's happened is if you're working from home that's an edge and so the long term architecture means that companies need to take care of where their network edges are now the SEM at home they had them at the branch office they have them at the end of prize and the data center in the cloud then we need to decide know where to apply the security is it at the endpoint is it at the edges is the data center or bout an S T one is absolutely essential because every edge you'll have whether that were home now whether it be in your data center or eCampus on the cloud needs that st-1 technology and make sure you can guide the applications in a secure manner what's interesting is I actually deployed st-1 in my home here I've got two ISP connections one week I'm casting off with AT&T now that may be overkill right now for most people about putting st-1 in their homes but I think long-term homes are gonna be part of the enterprise network it's just another eight take a minute to explain the SD win I would call it the this is a mill especially this is not your grandfather's st win I mean it's changed st when is the internet I mean basically at home what does that mean if users don't know care what the products are at the end of the day they're working at home so kind of SD win has taken on a new broader scope if you will it's not just the classic SD win or is it can you take us through I mean and this is a category that's becoming much broader what's your what's your nails is there yeah again I'm not saying that you know consumers are gonna be putting SD wine in the homes right now but if I'm an executive and I rely on my communication out there are lots of meetings during the day work from home I want it to be as reliable as possible so if my one is pee goes down and I can't get on the internet that's an issue if I have to ISPs I have much higher availability but more importantly us you and I can guide the applications where I want when they want I can make sure you know my normal home traffic goes off certain direction the certain on a VLAN and segmentation policy whereas my war can be completely set out so again I you know I think SDRAM technology is important for the home long term is important for the branch for the enterprise and the data center and Earls St ones built into all up all our forty gates have sp1 you just switch it on we think it's a four essential technology going forward to drive that cloud on-ramp real quick follow-up on that for the folks in the enterprise I see the enterprise will make it easier for their customers their users who are at home so it feels consumer II invisible if you will I think that's the short-term what's what are what are you seeing your customers and prospective customers thinking when they come back or as they operate now in this new reality when they say you know what we really miss forecasted this now they have to get back to business what are they gonna do do they do more sta on I mean what's the architecture how does that get done what's the conversation like you know as this evolved for the next it's gonna slowly open up it still it's going to be a new reality for at least 12 months what's the conversation with the customer right now when it comes to going in and taking care of this so it doesn't happen again yeah what I'm doing actually actually what I'm doing a lot of virtual ABC's obviously we usually have 200 our customers that come to our corporate quarters or executive briefings and I'm doing actually more virtually and a lot of the opening conversations is they don't think they're gonna go completely Hunter's under percent back to where they were there's always going to be now a fraction of work-from-home people they may move around some of their physical location so as I said the ST when is that piece on the edge whether it be your home ranch campus or data centers gonna be there to guide the applications guide the users and devices to the right applications of wherever they may be as it could be in the cloud of communion data center it could be anywhere and then the key conversation thereafter for customers long-term architecture wise is where do I apply my security stack and the security spat consists of basic things like antivirus all right yes more detection capabilities even even response to Isis given that stack how much do I put in the edge how much do I put in my endpoint how much do I put my branch how much I put in my campus data center and cloud and then how do I maintain a policy a single policy across all of those and then now and again maybe I have to move that stack cross so that's going to be the key long term architecture question for enterprises as they move to a slightly different composition of workforce in different locations is hey I've got to make sure every edge that I have I identify and I secure when SP ran and then how do I apply the security stack cross all the diff tell great insight thanks for sharing that I want to get your take on now speaking of working at home you're also the CMO as well as the EVP of products which is a unique job because you can talk about any think when the cube we love it you had an event accelerate 2020 the folks watching go to the hashtag on Twitter hashtag accelerate 20 that's the hash tag you'll see a lot of the the pictures of the slides and some commentary I was laying down some tweets all the analysts were as well what are some of the highlights for you is a great presentation by the CEO you gave a talk and there's a lot of breakouts you had to do a digital event because you couldn't hold the physical event so you kind of had a shelter-in-place kind of and how did it go and what are some of the highlights yeah on the one side I was a bit sad you know we had or what we call accelerates arrange for this year in Barcelona and New York Mexico and San Jose we had to cancel war for them and I'm very quickly spin up a digital event a virtual event and you know we end up there's some initial targets around you know you know each of our physical events we get between two and three thousand and so we're thinking you know if we got to ten thousand this would be great we actually ended up with thirty thirty-two thousand or something like that registered and actually the percentage that showed off was even higher so we had over 20,000 people actually come online and go through our keynotes we built it so you go through the keynotes then you can go off to the painting what we call the breakouts for more detail we did verticals oh it did more technology sessions and so it's great and you know we tried our best to answer the questions online because these things are on demand we had three we had one for the u.s. one premiere and won't write back and so there was times but to get that sort of exposure to me is amazing twenty thousand people on there listening and it connects into another subject which is education and fun yet for some time as invested I would say you know my CEO says but I'll invest a bit more in education versus the marketing advertising budget now go okay okay that's that hey we'll work on that but education for us we announced a few weeks ago that education is now training is free for customers for everybody and we'd also been you know leading the way by providing free training for our partners now it's completely free for everybody we have something called the network security expert which goes from one to eight one and two of that are actually open to the public right now and if I go to the end of last year we had about two to three thousand people maybe a week come on and do the training obviously majority doing the NSC one courses you get further through to eight it's more technical last week we had over eighty thousand people we just think about those numbers incredible because people you know having more time let's do the training and finding is as they're doing this training going up the stack more quickly and they're able to implement their tools more quickly so training for us is just exploded off the map and I and there's a new reality of all the unemployment and also people are at home and there's a lot of job about the skill gap before in another cube conversation it's it's more apparent than ever and why not make it free give people some hope give them some tools to be successful there's demand yes and it's not you know it's not just them you know IT professionals are Ennis e1 is a foundational course and you'll see kids and students and universities doing it and so Ben Mars granddad's dad's doing it so we we're getting all sorts of comments and social media about the training you know our foundation great stuff has a great we'll put a plug on that when should we get that amplified for its really good stuff I got to ask you about the event one of the things I really like about the presentation was from your CEO and you gave one as well was the clarity around the vision of security and a couple of things that were notable to me was the confluence of the collision between networking and security and at the intersection of those two forces you have an accelerated integrated policy dynamic to me this is the heart of DevOps of what used to be in cloud being kind of applied to security you have data you got all kinds of new things emerging new patterns new signals that's security so you got to be you got to be fast you got to identify things so you guys are in this business that's one force and the other one was the billions of edges and this idea that there's no perimeter so it's everything's immersive so illustrate some points of validation on that from your standpoint is that how you guys are seeing it unfold in the future is that happening now can you give us a feeling for whether where we are and that those those kind of paradigms yeah good point so I think it's been happening it's happening now has been happening the future you know if you look at networking and our CEO Enzi talked about this and that networking hasn't really cheer outing and switching we go back to 2000 we had 100 mega under megabit now you have formed a gigabit but the basic function we haven't really changed that much securities different we've gone from a firewall and we add VPN then we at next-gen firewall then we had SSL inspection now we've added sd1 and so this collisions kind of an equal in that you know networking's sped ahead and firewalling is stayed behind because it's just got too many applications on that so the basic principle premise of the company of putting net is to build and bring that together so it's best of all accelerate the basic security network security functions so you can consolidate multiple functions on one system and then bring networking and security together a really good example of security where or nexium firewall where you can accelerate and so our security processing units and my analogy simple analogy is GPUs inside games where their GPU offloads CPU to allow rendering to happen very quick it's the same for us RSP use way of a network SPU and we have a Content SPU which all flows the CPU to allow a security and networking do it be accelerated work now coming to your second point about the perimeter I I'm not quite sure whether the perimeters disappear and the reason I say that is customer still goes they have firewalls on the front of the networks they have endpoint protection they have protection in the cloud so it's not that the perimeters disappeared it's just but much larger and so now the perimeters sitting across all your infrastructure your endpoints your in factories you got IOT devices you've got workloads in different powered and that means you need to look very carefully at those and give visibility initially and then apply the control that control maybe it's a ten-point security it may be SD mine at the edge it may be a compliance template in the cloud but you need visibility of all those edges which have been created with the perimeters reading across the image it's interesting you bring up a good point we always have kind of debates over beers on this on this topic you know the old model was mote you know get the castle and the gate but here the perimeter of the edge if you believe there's an edge and I do believe you find it perfectly the edge is a perimeter it's an endpoint right so it's a door into the internet so are the network so is the perimeter just an end adorn there's more doors right so or service yeah just think about it the castle would did multiple doors is the back everyone's the door there's this dozle someday and you have to define those H's and have visibility of them and that's why things like network access control know for you know zero trust network access is really important making sure you kind of look at the edge inside your way and so your data center and then it's like you powd what workloads are spinning off and what's the configuration and what's there what's from a data perspective right your recommendation and I'm a customer looking at my network I got compute I got edge devices and users I realized there's a billions of edges on my network now and the realities hit me I wasn't really being proactive on investing what do I do what's the PlayBook for me as I start to rethink that and what do I put into place how do I get going now I got to rethink it I now recognize I got full validation I got to manage this I got to do something what's your recommendation to me if I'm a customer the key to me is and I've had this conversation now for the last five years and it's getting louder and louder and that is I suppose I spend a lot of money on point solution point but even end point may have five point products on there and so they're getting to the conclusion it's just too hard to manage I can't find all the right people I get so many alerts from so many security systems I can't work out what's going on and the conversation now is how do I deploy a platform we call it the security fabric now I don't deploy that fabric across my network I'm not saying you should go from 30 vendors to one vendor that would be nice of course but I what I'm saying as you go from 30 vendors down to maybe five or six platform the platform's perform multiple functions it could be they're out there you attach a platform a designer platform just birth protector or a particular organization or part of the network and so the platform allows you then to build automation and the automation allows you to see things more quickly and react to things more quickly and do things without manual intervention the platform approach it's absolutely starting to resonate yes you've still got very very large customers who put everything into segments of a C's Exedra book most customers now moving towards a yeah I think you know as you see and again back to that collision with the end of the intersection we have integrated policies if you're gonna do any integration which is the data problem so we talk about all the time to a lot of different tools can create silos and there's a use case for that but also creates problematic situations I mean a platform gives you a much more robust capability to be adaptive to be real time to program and automate yeah it's it's it's an issue if you've got 30 vendors and just be honest it's also an issue in the industry so I mean networking the story kind of worked out how to work together you can use the same different vendor switches and routers and they roughly work together with cybersecurity they've all been deal you know built totally separately not to even work and that's why you've got these multiple layers you've got a product the security problem then this got its own analytics engine and manager then you've got a manager of managers and an analyzer of analyzers and the sim system and then a saw I mean just goes on it makes it so complex for people and that's why I think they look into something a bit more simplified but most importantly the platform must be friendly from a consumption model you must be able to do an appliance where you need to do virtual machine SAS cloud native container whatever it may be because that network has changed in those ages as those edges move you've got them to have a platform that adaptable to the consumption model require you know I had a great cartridge with Phil Quaid you see your seaso over there and we were chatting around you know this idea of I won't say customization but there's no one turnkey monolithic application it seems to these platforms tend to be enabling where the seaso trend is to have teams building ok and and and almost a customized but building software to automate to solve their use case for their outcome so enabling that is a trend we're seeing so I think you guys are on the right track there any comment on your take on this enabling platform is that something that you guys are seeing that CSIS is looking at more in-house development more use case focus because they have the data they got real-time they need to be building on a platform not told what they could do yeah I think you've always had this this network team trying to build things fast and open and the security team trying to post things down and make it more secure you know it becomes even more problematic if you kind of go to the cloud where you've got pockets a developer's kind of thing do things in the DevOps way really as fast as possible and sometimes the controls are not put in place in fact no the big as I said the biggest issue for the cloud is not so much you know malware it it's more about miss configuration that's why you're seeing the big breaches and that's more of a customer thing to do and so I think what the seaso is trying to do is make sure they apply the controls appropriately and again their job has become much harder now we've got all the multitude of endpoints that they didn't have before they've got now there when that's not just the closed MPLS network is old off different types of broadband 5 G's coming towards the end of this year next year as well the data centers may have decreased a bit but they've still got datacenter capacity and they're probably got 5 or 6 hours and 20 different SAS applications that put a deal with and they've got to deal with developers in there so it's a harder job for them and they need to melt or add those tools but come back to that single point of management great stuff John Madison CMO EVP great insight there it's almost a master class right there you laid it all out on what's going on a final question any change is what any other news updates on the four net front I know you guys got some answer I didn't see the breakouts of the session I had something else going on I think I've been walking dog and do some other things but you know being at home and to take care of things what's new what's what's out that people might have missed that's coming out of for today you're telling me you didn't have 60 hour a breakout on dedicated I don't think yeah we've you know we've have a lot going on you know we have a big R&D team here in North America and Canada and with a lot of products coming out this time of the year we bring out our 40 OS network operating system with 6.4 over 300 new features inside there including new orchestration systems for sp1 and then also we actually launched on network processor seven and the board gate already 200 F powered by four network processor sevens it's some system out there and provide over 800 gigs of fire or capacities but in bill V explain acceleration they can do things like elephant flows huge flows of data so there's always there's always new products coming out of 14 it sure those are the two big ones for this quarter you guys certainly are great interviews to talk to great a lot of expertise there final final question you know everyone every company's got their culture Moore's laws cadence of Moore's laws Intel faster cheaper smaller what's the for Annette culture if you had to kind of boil it down what's it you guys are always pushing great products out there all high quality I'll see security you got to be buttoned up and have good ops and controls but you still need to push the envelope and have stadia what's the culture if you had to kind of boil the culture down for Porter net what would it be that's always an interesting question and so the company's been going since 2000 okay the founders are still there NZ's CEO and Michael Z's the CTO and I think that one of the philosophies is that listen to the customer very closely because you can get distracted by shiny objects all over the place I want to go and do this oh yeah let's build this what about this and in the end the customer and and what they want may get lost and so we listen very closely we use you know we have a very high content of technology people who can translate the customer use case into what we should build and so I think that's the culture we have and maintain that so we're very close to our customers we've been building very quickly for them make sure it works it needs tweaking then we'll look at it again a very very customer driven always great to hear from the founders you guys had a great event accelerate 20 that's the hashtag some great highlights on Twitter some commentary there and of course go to Ford a net site to check out the replays Sean man so thanks for taking the time to share your insights here on the cube conversation I really appreciate it thank you okay it's cube concert here in Palo Alto we're bringing you all the interviews during this time we have our quarantine crew the cube is virtual we'll do whatever it takes to get the interviews out there and get the stories out there and the people behind the tech making it happen I'm John Fourier thanks for watching [Music]

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering your storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Howdy, y'all Welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of Day one of pure accelerate 19 from Austin, Texas. I'm Lisa Martin. My co host is Day Volonte. We got a couple of gentlemen here chatting with us. Next, we've got one of our alumni. Mike Bundy's back head of Cisco Worldwide alliances for appear. Mike. Welcome back. >> Thank you. >> Sporting the very dapper >> It's not ours today, but it's enough. >> I like it. Very subtle on we've got Andrew Tenant joining us for the first time Senior manager Worldwide sales at Cisco Andrew, Welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we know we've had lots of conversations with Cisco and Cure Isis. Go live. Just a few months ago, Mike was on with this bright orange blazer. You guys have been partners for about four years now, Mike, let's start with you and talk about the evolution of that partnership from Bogota Market. A field A sales perspective, right? Overall partnership. How are things going? >> Well, things were great from a mo mentum perspective. We're we're on track to eclipse You know, I'm not supposed talk about a lot of numbers, but in the next year we will eclipse together a billion dollar run rate >> with partnership, which is tremendous milestone >> in a 4 to 5 year regulations. So things were, well, you know, it started from the field and what customers were requiring. And now, in the last, um, year, we've we've added about six new CDs were up to 22 we have three in the queue between now and the calendar year. So in terms of the growth, the product development and momentum, it's it's tremendous. And what we'll talk about today will be kind of one of the next generations and errors that that will hit on regarding this. >> And you guys were also we had a conversation a little bit ago with with Nathan Hall. Really, this partnership with Cisco and Pure is now getting started in the field, as you were talking about, but it's all the way down into the engineering level in terms of being very pervasive throughout. You guys have really achieve that. Yes, >> Yeah, top to bottom, right From From that field, engagement began. It was watching our customers embrace purest innovation. Right? And everywhere you turned pure was showing up, and it was it was really the field. Say, Hey, we got to get on board with this. And Tim Shanahan, who's part of our correctional organization on the descent aside, said, Hey, this is a big deal. We need to get in front of this thing. So that's really you. Mention where it started. And now we're doing everything from integrating products, right, integrating management tools to try to bring that together for our customers. And it's It's an awesome partnership. >> Absolutely. So where's the product focus. Where do we start? >> Yes, so you joked, right? Fibre channel. I think I remember Fibre Channel from many years ago. It Cisco, and then you look back and suddenly it's not dead, right? The truth is, five channels the best protocol for mission critical storage traffic that's ever been built. It's probably best critical out there for that. It's not sexy, though, right, so we can't took our eye off the ball at Cisco. But as we now develop these next generation storage technologies, there's never been a more important time to bring that switching fabric into play right It's absolutely critical that we have the right tools to accomplish what our customers trying to deliver from applications standpoint. So the agility, the visibility, just the overall performance is more important today. That was back in sort of that the heyday of fibre channel, if you will. Right? So the partnership that we're working on right now is making sure that we're we're maximizing the outcome of these investments. Custer's making with all of yours storage offerings, leveraging a sand infrastructure that's compatible with it and really gonna make it sing. >> And you're right and you go back 10 plus years and it was a vice scuzzy was coming in, but had some f f C bigots is that I will never hang on to win the NFC. Oh, we now you got N v m e over fabric. We'll talk about that. But so from pure perspective, you have always had to pay attention to that segment of the market. Guys went hard after the high end. Of'em sees business, which was heavy fiber channel, absolutely early days. >> Yeah, I mean four out of five of our razor attached fibre channel to a customer's environment. It is core to what we do. And we're excited about the resell opportunity that we just started with pure because, you know, Andrew and I joke last week, but we put pen to paper in terms of we believe our our introduction of this is a re silk and help them grow their sand business by 35 40%. And that's the kind of disruption that we're seeing with our A raise in the market. And we think because of how we're evolving customers to modernize those networks, that we can drag the Sisko Fibre Channel business right along with it. >> This is a sorry Mike. This is a re sell pure reselling wth the MDS product line. How is you the pure Channel? Responding to this news? >> They love it because it's it's a new buying center, you know that they're getting to talk to Ah, and it helps us, you know, establish Maur, you know, understanding the customers, whole business, not just from a storage perspective. So >> So how was envy? Emmy changing landscape? What do you guys seeing there? I mean, you guys, I think the first another first Charlie didn't mention it today on stage, So money first. It's hard to keep track of. But how is that affecting? You know what's going on in the field? >> Yeah. So I mean, again, it's the timing of this generational shift to next. Gen. Sarge, envy me being probably the most critical of that. If we look at what happened with all flash A raise, for example, all of those ended up on critical mission critical workloads and all ended up on fibre Channel 80. 85% of those end up on that legacy technology because it was so capable of getting the job done. Envy me is gonna take us another leap forward so customers will be challenged toe have something that lives both in the what they have today and bridges them to that future proof state. Right? So it's absolutely critical that you have tools that are gonna let you adopt envy me as it makes sense on carry it operationally alongside the same modality that you had for those workloads in the past, right? That's the key. Is that the folks we're gonna own this stuff going forward to the ones who own it now, right? Just with maybe older technology >> and the business impact is what you could do more with less performance, lower costs, more >> last performance, visibility right so you can help. Troubleshoot way had a situation not that long ago where a customer had Honore, not it was a competitive ray, right? It was getting hammered and it was locking up. And when they looked at the the forensics coming off, the rate said they had 4000 I ops off of that array. A very nominal amount. It should have been the problem. It shifted the focus elsewhere. Well, using some of the telemetry built into the MPs platform, it was obvious that there were 25,000 I ops hitting that array because VM, where was doing a lot of command control traffic to the array. So having that visibility at the's scales and speeds, if you don't know what you're doing, you can't see what's going on. You could be flying blind and struggling and everybody loses there. So >> you know we're excited about this because we don't want to bring our rays into an environment that's not suited for high end performance and reliability, cause that's what we've kind of made our brand on when it comes to customer networks, especially with the X 60 and nineties that we launched the year ago. They're all envy me ready. So we want to make sure that, as we did, ploy that that the entire infrastructure's ready and Cisco, in my opinion, has the best. Every product is 64 gig capable. It's envy me today. And so we're ready, you know, envy me, you know, in the end, if you will. So when when the host are ready to take advantage of this full network and full storage system, we're ready. Um, an Andrew also mentioned analytics. So, you know, >> we we >> extract ourselves on the analytics capabilities of our system as it works today with after one and so that allows us to, you know, very quickly using machine learning solve most of our customers problems. In fact, we open about 85% of our own customers tak cases for them because we predict when things were going to get rough and bumpy. So as we extend and bridge that together with what Cisco has and their Sandwich Analytics capability, it's gonna make the experience way different than it would be on a competitive sand fabric and a competitive storage array, whether it's flash or not. So that's that's what we're doing together, which makes fiber Channel better and more unique than it has been in the past. >> In terms of adoption. You mentioned when the host guys already, What's the blocker? There's just silicon. Is it just, >> you know, you could You could take Cisco's example. You know, they're they're looking at the new memory technology. And how do they apply that to the interface adapter? And how do you handle that situation? So, you know, as they evolve their next platform, it will be pervasive in that. And I'm sure that the other you know, host providers are gonna be doing >> standards standards. Low hanging fruit was envy me over converge Ethernet, right, because that was kind of the first place to start. But reality is weaken were the only vendor who can provide both of those in the Cisco side. Right. So we have the same tooling on the same, actually administrative tooling on on either. Right. So that's ah, terrific. >> And it's not just the infrastructure from the hostess, the operating system as well. So you know Lennox can take advantage of it in a different way. So, you know, we're seeing most of our deployments today, our fibre channel over Ethernet, because the the customer base that air deploying that are purely a Linux based environment. So they're able to do that. So, as you know, not all of our enterprising and commercial customers run that environment. So it's It's a little bit of the technology. It's a little bit of the Intel cycle. It's a little bit of the operating system, but the point is, we're ready. And there's a long, long road map. You know, for customers if we go this route, >> when should customers start thinking about this terms >> immediately? Right? Ultimately, it's not a question of if it's a question of when, but if they're, if they're getting things ready now, if you're making investment today, you can make an investment today that accommodates what you're doing today. Like back in the day. If we were selling a storage platform, the sandwich is sort of this necessary thing behind the scenes. That wasn't necessarily you could actually let it sit there for a couple of generations of the storage it was supporting. That's no longer going to be the case right, because, quite simply, the evolution on the storage front. And it's so much faster that you need to make sure the thing you're plugging it into. That's a simple question for any customer there. What'd you plugging this into right? Because at the end of the day, if it's just that that old san you have sitting around it may or may not be capable. Regardless of Endor, right, it's it's gonna actually diminished value you get in the time value of that investment you've made in this incredible platform. >> So where are you having these customer conversations that we talk about the joint go to market in the field? You know, it's It's not just about fibre channel and speed and storage, these air business critical work loads that are being protected and run and access to be able to extract all these insights. When you're talking with customers, where are you? You're not at the storage. I've been level. I imagine this is a much more business intensive conversation. It's a >> great question. Go ahead. >> So I think you know people that are driving the cloud platform strategy for the infrastructure. They obviously need to understand how. How does this work in a hybrid cloud or multi cloud environment? Then you've got, you know, the people that are developing the mission Mission critical business APS. Whether that's you know, Oracle s a p et cetera, et cetera. But it's also the non traditional business APS that are coming to play things that leverage stores that are file or object oriented, or kubernetes or things like that. It's so you're having discussions with the teams that are deploying the apse for the business and that will drive and dictate the requirements. Is that you know, we're trying to help the infrastructure on the cloud infrastructure teams adapt to >> multi cloud piece gets interesting here, right? Because us now talk about building massively scalable distributed systems, and you're not gonna be able to You don't want to necessarily ship all your data around, but you want to ship the metadata and be smart enough to know where the data is so you can go ship to compute right to the data, right? And I >> think that that's another interesting thing. And a positive aspect of leveraging some things we've already done with Cisco is you know they have the concept of a C I anywhere. No, you know, just like we're doing with Cloud Block store of extending that storage capability into the cloud. Cisco has done the same with a C I. So it's not just it's not sure, making sure the workload in the data payload our mobile, but also the application. And that's, you know, yes, that that may not be the case today for Fibre Channel, but the technology is there if the customer demands it. So that's 60% of Cisco's revenue in the data center comes from his networking core. That's what we're more excited about. The next generation's partnership is we feel like we've done a good job and built momentum with the computer part of their business, and I think as we evolve into this part of the business, it's gonna It's gonna be better for customers. In the end, >> it's either today, customers gonna spend more time operating this than anything, right, and really, that's all about visibility. Meantime, the resolution just how quickly they can make sure that those this thing's running and and as proactively get in front of congestion and issues at a time if they can. So it's Ah, it's a complimentary hardware software problem solved. You have to be able to do things at extremely high rates of speed with visibility I've never seen before. So analytics built into a six incredibly important stuff to get that streaming right out of the chip so you could tell what's going on at any level of the stack. Where is Like I said today, we've seen many cases now where their challenges in the network and in the sand and on the array and everyone's blind to it because our >> engineers love it because the monitoring and the scoping capability that were required, a lot of sand fabrics to deploy would require extra tools. Extra tap kits Cisco has at built in the A six so literally. It's just enable that with software. And you can do all the diagnostics you ever wanted to do at the at the wire and the fiber level, >> as opposed to a discreet probe. Exactly a disruptive drives the >> costs way out. The complexity reduces risk troubleshooting floor space, you know, the whole you know >> that's big time >> based. So today there's an issue. Last night Hey, Mike, what happened last night? I know. Let me know. That happens again. That's pretty much the ticket Close, right? We could actually go back in time now kind of a DVR and actually see now for the first time in a sand fabric what's actually happening and go back and reconstruct it to figure out how we proactively prevent it going on from the next time. So >> so, Mike, Last question. We're out of time. But last question for you. Everybody says future proof. Pardon? Everybody says future proved how are is pure delivering that with Cisco. What is it gonna mean to that business leader that I have an infrastructure in place that will truly be the food? Your proof? >> Good question. So you know, it's evergreen is the term that pure uses for you know what we do. So you never buy the same storage twice, right? And if you look at the platform that Cisco has for MDS, it is clearly capable to 400 gig capability. And today most networks are purchased for 30 to get capable with 16 gig optics, so they have 32 64. There's a long way to go here so the platform and their innovation will continue this to be, you know, a future proof network that marries up with our evergreen story. So we were excited We wouldn't get in this relationship if we felt that it was not gonna provide the same level of benefits and standard that we have for our own customers. So >> correct. Mike Andrew. Thank you for joining David me on the Q. But way. Look forward to hearing what happens in your five of the pure Cisco relationship. I know. We'll probably stay tuned. I know we'll see you again. Thank you for your time. Thanks for David. Dante. I Lisa Martin. You're watching the cue from pure accelerate 19.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome back to San Diego. Everybody watching the Cube, the leader and live check coverage. My name is David Locke. I'm here with my co host student in recovering Day to hear Sisqo live. 2019 on. On On. On on. Oswald is here. Excuse me. Sees the senior vice president of enterprise networking Engineering at Cisco. And John A postal, a polis. Italians in the Greeks. We have a lot in common. He is the VP and CTO of Enterprise Network. And get Sisko. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. How'd I do? Do you know it? Also, that you're bad, right? Thank you. All right, Good. Deal it out. Let's start with you. You guys have had a bunch of news lately. Uh, you're really kind of rethinking access to the network. Can you explain what's behind that to our audience? >> Yeah, even think about it. The network is getting has running more and more critical. Infrastructure at the same time is increasing. Bottom scale and complexity. What? We expected that you'll only be obvious. Violence on workspace is on the move. Are you? You're working here in your office, in the cafe, The sock off everywhere you want. An uninterrupted unplugged experience for that is violence. First, it's cloud driven and is dead optimist. So we had to rethink our way to access. It's not just about your laptops and your fool on the wireless network. In the end of the digital management systems, Coyote devices, everything is going to provide us with means reaching the access on that. But >> so, John, this obviously ties into, you know, you hear all the buzz about five g and WiFi. Six. Can you explain the connection? And you know what? We need to know about that. >> Okay, it's so fine. Five. Jean WiFi 62 new wireless technologies coming about now, and they're really awesome. So y fi six is the new version. WiFi. It's available today, and it's going to be available for down predominately indoors as wi WiFi indoors and high density environments where you need a large number. Large data bait for square meter una WiFi. Once again, the new WiFi six fight in the coverage indoors uh, five is going to be used predominately outdoors in the cellular frequency. Replacing conventional for Geo lt will provide you The broad coverage is your roam around outdoors. And what happens, though, is we need both. You need great coverage indoors, which wife Isis can provide, and you need great coverage outdoors. Which five year cried >> for G explosion kind of coincided with mobile yet obviously, and that caused a huge social change. And, of course, social media took off. What should we expect with five G? Is it? You know, I know adoption is gonna take a while. I'll talk about that, but it feels like it's more sort of be to be driven, but but maybe not. Can you >> see why 5 65 gr actually billions Some similar fundamental technology building blocks? You know you will be in the ball game for the Warriors game like a few weeks ago when they were winning on DH. After a bit of time to send that message. Video your kid something on the WiFi slow laden Z with WiFi, 61 have a problem. The WiFi six has four times the late in C 14. The throughput and capacity has existing y find Lowell Agency and also the battery life. You know, people say that that is the most important thing today. Like in the mass Maharaj three times the battery life for WiFi, 16 points. So you're gonna see a lot of use cases where you have inter walking within 556 and five g WiFi six foot indoors and find you for outdoor and some small overlap. But the whole idea is how do you ensure that these two disparate access networks are talking to each other explaining security policy and it is invisibility. >> Okay, so first what? Your warriors fan, right? Yeah. Awesome way. Want to see the Siri's keep going, baby? That was really exciting. Because I'm a Bruins fan, sir, on the plane the other night and in the JetBlue TV. Shut down, you know, So I immediately went to the mobile, But it was terrible experience, and I was going crazy checks in my friends. What's happening? You say that won't happen? Yeah, with five Julia and WiFi sexy. Exactly. Awesome. >> So, John, help connect for us. Enterprise. Not working. We've been talking about the new re architectures. You know, there's a c I there now intent based networking. How does this play into the five G and WiFi six discussion that we're having today? >> So one of the things that really matters to our customers and for everybody, basically, they want these sort of entering capability. They had some device is they want to talk to applications. They want access to data. We want to talk with other people or try ot things. So you need this sort of end twin capability wherever the ends are. So one of the things I've been working on a number of years now it's first all intent Basin that working, which we announced two and 1/2 years ago. And then multi domain, we try to connect across the different domains. Okay, well across campus and when, and data center all the way to the cloud and across the Service Fighter network and trad security has foundational across all of these. This was something that David Buckler and Chuck Robbins talked about at their keynote yesterday, and this is a huge area for us because we're going to make this single orchestrated capability crop customers to connect and to and no matter where the end of ices are >> alright so sewn on I have to believe that it's not the port, you know, administrator saying, Oh my God, I have all these signs of them. Is this where machine learning in A I come in to help me with all these disparate system absolutely are going very simple. Any user on any device had access to any application. Sitting in a data center in a cloud of multiple clouds over any network, you want that securely and seamlessly. You also wanna have nature. Its whole network is orchestrator automated, and you're the right visibility's recipes for idea on with the business insights on the eye. An ML. What's happening is there for the next book is going in complexity and skill. The number of alerts are growing up, so you are not able to figure it out. That's where the power of a I and machine learning comes. Think about it in the industry revolution, the Industrial Revolution made sure that you are. You don't have limitations or what humans can do right, like machines. And now we want to make sure businesses can benefit in the digital revolution, you know, in limited by what I can pass through all the logs and scrolls on ornament. Everything and that's the power of air and machine learning >> are there use cases where you would want some human augmentation. We don't necessarily want the machine taking over for you or Or Do you see this as a fully automated type of scenario? >> Yeah, so what happens is first ball visibility is really, really important. The operator of an effort wants the visibility and they want entwined across all these domains. So the first thing we do is we apply a lot of machine learning to get to take that immense amount of data is an unmentioned and to translate it into piece of information to insights into what's happening so that we could share to the user. And they can have visibility in terms of what's happened, how well it's happening. Are they anomalies? Are is this security threat so forth? And then we can find them additional feedback. Hate. This is anomaly. This could be a problem. This is the root cause of the problem, and we believe these are the solutions for what do you want to do? You wantto Do you want actuate one of these solutions and then they get to choose. >> And if you think of any other way, our goal is really take the bits and bytes of data on a network. Convert that data into information that information into insights that inside that lead to outcomes. Now you want. Also make sure that you can augment the power of a machine. Learning on those insights, you can build on exactly what's happening. For example, you want first baseline, your network, what's normal for your environment and when you have deviations and that anomalies. Then, you know, I don't know exactly what the problem is. Anyone automated the mediation of the problem. That's the power of A and women you >> When you guys as engineers, when you think about, you know, applying machine intelligence, there's a lot of, you know, innovation going on there. Do you home grow that? Do you open source it? Do you borrow? Explain the philosophy there in terms of it. From a development standpoint, >> development point of it is a combination of off all the aspects, like we will not green when they leave it all the exists. But it's always a lot of secrets are that you need to apply because everything flows through the network, right? If everything first netbooks, this quarter of information is not just a data link, their data source as well. So taking this district's also information. Normalizing it, harmonizing it, getting a pretty language. Applying the Alberta and machine learning, for example. We do that model, model learning and training in the clouds. Way to infants in the cloud, and you pushed the rules down. There's a combination, all of all, of that >> right, and you use whatever cloud tooling is available. But it sounds like it's really from an interest from a Cisco engineering standpoint. It's how you apply the machine intelligence for the benefit of your customers and those outcomes versus us. Thinking of Sisko is this new way I company right. That's not the ladder. It's the former. Is that >> fair? One of the things that's really important is that, as you know, Cisco has been making, uh, we've been designing a six for many years with really, really rich telemetry and, as you know, Data's key to doing good machine learning and stuff. So I've been designing the A six to do really time at wire speed telemetry and also to do various sorts of algorithmic work on the A six. Figure out. Hey, what is the real data you want to send up? And then we have optimized the OS Iowa sexy to be able to perform various algorithms there and also post containers where you could do more more machine learning at the switch at the router, even in the future, maybe at the A P and then with DNA Center way, have been able to gather all the data together in a single data life where we could form a machine learning on top. >> That's important, Point John mentioned, because you want Leo want layers and analytics. And that's why the cattle's 91 191 20 access point we launch has Cisco are basic that provides things like cleaning for spectrum were also the analytic from layer one level are literally a seven. I really like the line, actually from Chuck Robbins, yesterday said. The network sees everything, and Cisco wants to give you that visibility. Can you walk us through some of the new pieces? What, what what people, Either things that they might not have been aware of our new announcements this week as part of the Sisko, a network analytics, announced three things. First thing is automated based lining. What it really means. Is that what's normal for your environment, right? Because what's normal for your own environment may not be the same for my environment. Once I understand what that normal baseline is, then, as I have deviations I canto anomaly detection, I can call it an aggregate issues I can really bring down. Apply here and machine learning and narrow down the issues that are most critical for you to look at right now. Once and Aragon exact issue. I wanted the next thing, and that is what we call machine. Reasoning on machine reasoning is all about ordering the workflow off what you need to do to debug and fix the problem. You want the network to become smarter and smarter, the more you use it on. All of this is done through model learning and putting in the clouds infants in the cloud and pushing it down the rules as way have devices on line on time. So, >> do you see the day? If you think about the roadmap for for machine intelligence, do you see the day where the machine will actually do the remediation of that workflow. >> Absolutely. That's what we need to get you >> when you talk about the automated base lining is obviously a security, you know, use case there. Uh, maybe talk about that a little bit. And are there others? It really depends on your objective, right? If my objective is to drive more efficiency, lower costs, I presume. A baseline is where you start, right? So >> when I say baseline what I mean really, like, say, if I tell you that from this laptop to connect on a WiFi network, it took you three seconds and ask, Is that good or bad? You know, I don't know what the baseline for his environment. What's normal next time? If you take eight seconds on your baseline street, something is wrong. But what is wrong isn't a laptop issue isn't a version on the on your device is an application issue on network issue and our issue I don't know. That's why I'm machine learning will do exactly what the problem is. And then you use machine reasoning to fix a problem. >> Sorry. This is probably a stupid question, but how much data do you actually need. And how much time do you need to actually do a good job in that? That type of use case? >> What happens is you need the right data, Okay? And you're not sure where the right data is originally, which we do a lot of our expertise. It's this grass for 20 years is figuring out what the right data is and also with a lot of machine learning. We've done as well as a machine reason where we put together templates and so forth. We've basically gathered the right made for the right cause for the customer. And we refined that over time. So over time, like this venue here, the way this venue network, what it is, how it operates and so forth varies with time. We need to weigh need to refine that over time, keep it up to date and so forth. >> And when we talk about data, we're talking about tons of metadata here, right? I mean, do you see the day where there'll be more metadata than data? Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. All right, so So it's true you were hearing >> the definite zone. Lots of people learning about a building infrastructure is code. Tell us how the developer angle fits into what we've been discussing. >> Here we ask. So what happens is is part of intent based on African key parts of automation, right? And another key parts. The assurance. Well, it's what Devon it's trying to do right now by working with engineering with us and various partners are customers is putting together one of the key use cases that people have and what is code that can help them get that done. And what they're also doing is trying to the looking through the code. They're improving it, trying to instill best practice and stuff. So it's recently good po'd people can use and start building off. So we think this could be very valuable for our customers to help move into this more advanced automation and so forth. >> So architecture matters. We've touched upon it. But I want you to talk more about multi domain architectures wear Chuck Robbins. You know, talk about it. What is it? Why is it such a big deal on DH? How does it give Sisko competitive advantage? >> Think about it. I mean, my dad go being architectures. Nothing but all the components of a modern enterprise that look behind the scenes from giving access to a user or device to access for application and everything in between. Traditionally, each of these domains, like an access domain, the land domain can have 100 thousands off network know that device is. Each of these are configured General Manual to see a live my domain architectures almost teaching these various domains into one cohesive, data driven, automated programmable network. Your campus, your branch, your ran. But he doesn't and cloud with security as an integral part of it if it all. >> So it's really a customer view of an architecture isn't? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, that's good. I like that answer. I thought you're going to come out with a bunch of Cisco No mumbo jumbo in secret sauce. Now it really is you guys thinking about Okay, how would our customers need to architect there? >> But if you think about it, it's all about customer use case, for example, like we talked earlier today, we were walking everywhere on the bull's eye, in the cafe, in office and always on the goal. You're accessing your business school applications, whether it's webex salesforce dot com, 40 65. At the same time you're doing Facebook and what's happened. YouTube and other applications. Cisco has the van Domain will talk to Sisko. The domains action escalates and policies. So now you can cry tears the application that you want, which is business critical and fixing the night watchers but miss experience for you. But you want the best experience for that matter, where you are well >> on the security implications to I mean, you're basically busting down the security silos. Sort of the intent here, right? Right. Last thoughts on the show. San Diego last year. Orlando. We're in Barcelona earlier this year. >> I think it's been great so far. If you think about it in the last two years, we fill out the entire portfolio for the new access network when the cattle is 90. 100. Access points with WiFi six Switches Makes emission Campus core. Waterston, Controller Eyes for Unified Policy Data Center for Automation Analytics. Delia Spaces Business Insights Whole Access Network has been reinvented on It's a great time. >> Nice, strong summary, but John will give you the last word. >> What happens here is also everything about It says that we have 5,000 engineers have been doing this a couple years and we have a lot more in the pipe. So you're going to Seymour in six months from now Morn. Nine months and so forth. It's a very exciting time. >> Excellent. Guys. It is clear you like you say, completing the portfolio positioning for the next wave of of access. So congratulations on all the hard work I know a lot goes into it is Thank you very much for coming. All right, Keep it right there. David. Dante was stupid. And Lisa Martin is also in the house. We'll get back with the Cube. Sisqo live 2019 from San Diego.

>> Live from Washington DC, it's theCUBE covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to our nation's capital. You're watching theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. I'm Stu Miniman, joined by my co-host Dave Vallante. Happy to welcome to the program Matt Olsen, who is the co-founder, president, and chief revenue officer of IronNet cybersecurity, thanks so much for joining us. >> Yeah, great to be here, Stu. Thanks. >> So, obviously, public sector, we've been talking a lot about the cyber, as it were. As a co-founder, always one of the first, give us the why of the company. Why was it founded and a little bit of background. >> Sure, you know, we were founded, I guess out of some frustration. A number of us, including our CEO, Keith Alexander, who was formerly the director of NSA, we came out of the government. And the frustration was, that what we saw happening to companies, big companies, small companies, and the government was getting hit with cyber attacks, you know, consistently and increasingly sophisticated and disruptive, even destructive cyber attacks. So we left the government around the same time, a number of us, and we decided, can we start a company to really take on these threats? What can we do to develop a technology based on the threat landscape that really takes cyber security to the next level? So our mission has always been to protect companies and governments from these types of attacks that are hitting us all the time. >> Yeah, so there's no shortage of security experts inside the government, especially NSA. Actually, I remember Dave and I had talked to, there was a little company called Squirrel that came out of the NSA a little bit later. Oh, what do you know? AWS acquired them last year. So bring us insight a little bit, you know, what's the offering that IronNet has? How do you differentiate yourself in the marketplace? >> Sure, and you're absolutely right. There is a lot of expertise in places like NSA, where I formally worked and a bunch of us formally worked. The offering basically is, network traffic analytics. So we look at the network traffic inside large companies and, right down to the PCAP, so we're looking at the actual network traffic and running analytics. And what that means is not signature-based, but behavioral analytics. Looking for those indicators of malicious activity that we then can alert the SOC operators in these companies that this is something they need to pay attention to right away. Of course the problem always with this area is false positives. You know, how do you make sure that the alerts you're giving to these operators really mean something? So we've done a lot of work to draw down those false positives so that we're giving them alerts that are actionable and meaningful in the context of, you know, a very difficult threat landscape. So that's the basic offering. >> So what's underneath the covers? I mean, what's the secret sauce? Are you using machine intelligence? Share with us. >> Yeah, sure, I think the secret sauce is really a combination of two things. It's analytics algorithms that our data scientists develop. We've got some world-class folks that came out of places like the Defense Research Agency and universities that develop the analytics, the algorithms, but we combine those, that math with real life operators, people who themselves were on the offense at one point, right? They were working to, you know, break into other networks. They were the hackers who understand how the adversary operates like nobody else does. Combining the mathematics, the analytics with real life operators, that I'd say, you know, Dave, is the secret sauce because those are how we develop the analytics and the expert system to produce the alerts and draw down those false positives. >> Yeah, it was interesting. Last week, we were at Cisco Live, talking a lot about networking, and one of the biggest things for networking people is a lot of the network that they own, they don't actually own it anymore. It's in Amazon, it's in, you know, I've got my SAF stuff, public clouds, all that I'm dealing with. So, you know, where do you sit, are you mostly focused on public clouds like AWS or, you know, where in the network? >> So its a great question because there's clearly a movement, right, from on PRAM solutions to cloud solutions. AWS is part of that. So we're partners with AWS. So we've developed our analytics to run in AWS as one of our key cloud providers. So, we, with some of our customers, we're all on PRAM, we're in their data center. These are companies that want us there inside their perimeter, right? But then, with others, we have the ability to have sensors in their network but then do all the analytics, all the backend work in AWS, in the cloud environment. And that makes a lot of sense for many companies, especially when you talk about companies that are a little smaller maybe or, you know, we're not talking about the biggest companies. So they do, a lot of their applications are running in the cloud, so that's been a key transition for us as we've developed our product. >> Matt, what would you say are the biggest threats to organizations that they should be aware of? >> Yeah, you know, the biggest threats are the obvious ones in some ways, but there's no doubt that the nation-states that are carrying out attacks, whether we're talking about China or Iran or North Korea or Russia, are increasingly active and are especially dangerous in a volatile geopolitical landscape like we face today. So we're concerned in working with our customers to make sure that we're taking on the level of threat that we see from nation-states. And that's something, I think, at IronNet we understand particularly well, given that we were operating at that nation-state level when we were all in government. Of course, the most pervasive problem is the criminals. And you see that in all manner of hacks in cyber attacks, that the most common type of attack, including ransomware are occurring at the hands of criminals. >> So rewarding. But, your behavioral analytics can help with that problem. What about, like, the weaponization of social media? I mean, what do you make of that? And, I don't know, is there an answer to that that you can help with? >> You know, the way that social media has been used, you know, for example in the election in 2016, it's obviously a problem that we all are concerned about as citizens. And part of that is, I think there's a combination of the government working together with the private sector, in particular, the social media companies, to come up with better ways to take on that problem to make sure that people who are using those platforms are actually people, and not bots, not Russian trolls. We need to do an education campaign for American citizens, who are coming into this election cycle that were, you know, better prepared for what we saw happen in 2016. I mean, it's a big effort and, you know, I'm not sure, to be honest, that as a country we've totally come to grips with the nature of that problem. >> Yeah, I think you're right. We're just trying to get our heads around it. I interviewed Robert Gates one time and I asked him this question, and I've asked other security practitioners, and I get all kinds of different responses. He said, I want to tell you what he said and then maybe you can respond. I'm paraphrasing, of course, for Dr. Gates. He said we have to be really careful. I was asking him offense or defense, you know. Should we, we probably have some of the best security people in the world, we could go on offense, is that the future of warfare? He said we have to be really careful because we have a lot to lose as well in critical infrastructure. Others have said, no, we should go on the offense to flex our muscles. What do you think the right posture is there? >> You know, I think that's a great point, Dave. There clearly is a balance. I mean, it begins with defense, right. It begins with hardening our defenses, having the right people with the right experience and the right expertise in place to protect our networks because, you know, the best offense really is a good defense and protecting our networks. But we do need to have the capability, and we do have the capability to take offensive action when warranted. One of the challenges, I think, in this space is that we haven't necessarily developed the rules of engagement. You know, under what circumstances should the United States government take action on offense in cyber? You know, we saw this in going after ISIS. You know, going after some of their capability as a terrorist group, targeting people in the United States and taking out some of that capability. That's one way I think that we've clearly done the right thing in going on the offense. Harder to say when you have some of the cyber attacks going after a critical infrastructure. What's the right role for the government in going on the offense? I think, again, the first step is a good defense. And one element of a good defense is working better together. Companies working together, as well as companies working in close coordination and cooperation with the government. >> So it's not so much the technology. Obviously the technology is there, but it's the process around that, the collaboration with, whether it's within agencies or organizations. >> I think that's right. I think there's a lot of good technology. We're, our company, we provide a common defense platform for companies to work together. That's what we do at IronNet. And we're doing that with a number of energy companies right now. But the, I think it's getting that policy in place so that companies understand the technology exists to be faster and better working together. How can we then break down whatever barriers there are to sharing information and having that sort of collaborative approach? And we see that happening more and more across the critical infrastructure, whether we're talking finance or healthcare or energy. >> Matt, what's IronNet's relationship with Amazon? Are you part of the market place? How do you go to market together? >> Yeah, we're a registered partner with Amazon. Amazon is our, one of our cloud providers for our, as I mentioned, for where we run our analytics. I also mentioned this common defense platform. We run the correlations that we do for companies working together. That's all done in AWS, in the cloud. We've found Amazon to be a, really an extraordinary partner as an industry leader and a cloud provider. And so we're very close to, and with Amazon, in both going to market but also in developing our product, so it's been a great partnership for us. >> What do you think of the show? I mean, it's insane, isn't it? >> Yeah, it's amazing, right? Just the parking, finding a parking space was incredible. But once I got in. >> We didn't have to park. >> Yeah, once I got in, it's a fantastic show. >> We did have to register. (laughter) >> Likewise. No, congratulations, it's a great show and Amazon has been terrific for us at IronNet. >> Well, we're glad to cover it and we appreciate you joining us, Matt, for this segment. Be back with more coverage here from the AWS Public Sector show. For Dave Vallante, I'm Stu Miniman and thanks again for watching theCUBE.

I'm from San Juan Puerto Rico it's the cube covering coin agenda brought to you by silicon angle hello everyone welcome to special cube covers we're here exclusive conversations at coin agenda we just had blockchain unbound Puerto Rico is where we're at and we'll covering all the trends and latest news and analysis and cryptocurrency blockchain decentralized internet my next guest is Dan Bates founder and president of impact PPA Dan great to have you on thanks John glad to be here so one of the trends I'm noticing is a couple things flight to quality on the ico side first of all lot of the Deadwood's being pushed aside by the community still some stuff out there that you know might not have a business model but good entrepreneurs doing it then you start to see real use cases emerging I interviewed Green Chain they're disrupting how produce grains movement between suppliers and buyers and other impact mission driven stuff like how do you solve the energy crisis right we're in Puerto Rico right the grids half alive everyone knows that you're doing something really compelling take a minute to explain what you guys are doing is you have a token up and running what are you guys doing what's your value proposition so what we do is we've created a system by which you can now have renewable energy delivered to developing nations and we've taken the intermediary out of the equation whereby the world bank historically would take years to fund a project if they would do that they're big trepidation was how do you get paid at the end of the day so what we've done is we've come up with a solution that allows for generation of rent you know with the energy using renewables and track it all the way through to a payment rail if you will that a user can now prepay for energy on their mobile device it's m-pesa if you know what end pace is in Africa 70% of the transactions in Africa are done on a mobile device we are decentralized and pace up for energy so ok mobile app I get out you everyone can think about BRR and all the benefits and Airbnb brings you just have stuff happened talk about what's under the hood what's actually disruptive about what you guys are doing give some specifics because you're tying into Isis and jittering energy using the blocks you have a token how does it all work okay so what we do is in in the in the ability to fund the project getting the World Bank getting USA USA ID out of the equation what we now allow for is the community typically we are very liberal or tend to skew liberal right we actually believe that climate change is real and we want to help support these economies and these new types of you know betterment of the planet right but we don't expect that to be a philanthropic effort so people will buy the impact token which will fund projects that will then create what we're doing right now it's an AR C 20 of what we call a gen credit not a secondary token it's a credit that allows people to access the ledger so a guy will go down to the store just like he does right now and he charges his phones with more minutes or with a data plan it's fiat to a plan a digital currency we do the same thing it's now fiat into a gen credit we call it that allows them and transact with the blockchain so we get identity we get reputation we get trust and honesty about those transactions using the blockchain okay so where does the energy come from because the energy sources now are interesting because you're seeing people do great amazing things solar panels wind farming they see an Asia top of the apartment buildings there's a lot of wind yeah generally but how do they move that power into the market all right so what we do is right now we're using wind and solar rooftop or micro grid for instance we just finished a project in Haiti doing 150 kilowatts for a town called les a wha they haven't had power in two years a hurricane matthew prior to Hurricane Maria coming through Puerto Rico Puerto Rico's in a similar situation right so we created this micro grid using their existing infrastructure of transmission to distribution then we put smart meters on the home that smart meter connects to the blockchain and now people can have power at their homes pay-as-you-go awesome so what I've been to some of the hurdles you guys have had obviously to me it's a no-brainer of energy being tokenized is that makes such sense why wouldn't you want to do that obviously these regulatory issues that are incumbent legacy Dogma or or specific legislation of paperwork what not where's the efficiencies being automated away with the blockchain and what are some of the hurdles that you guys have gone through to get to this point all right so we work in the emerging economies of the world oftentimes there is not the kind of regulation that we have in the US or in the developed world like the EU something like that so when we go out to remote we go out to remote places like you know in Kenya and Ethiopia Latin America wherever it might be we don't have some of the Institute's that you would have if you were trying to set this up in Palo Alto I don't have to worry about PG&E and an interconnect and an off take and all that so what we do is that we'll go out set up a micro grid we're giving power to people who may have never had it before so all those regulatory layers are stripped away they're grateful for it that can they pay for it yes they can't afford to go buy a solar panel and a wind turbine on batteries and inverters nor would they know how to hook it all up yeah but they know that if they can buy power on a cellphone like they're already doing for other goods and services now we've got a game-changer Dan talk about the token economics I get this the payment rail piece mobile app no-brainer I get that check okay easy to use now I want to as a buyer of energy there's a token I some children there where's the other side of the marketplace how does that token economics work do you just take us through a use case and walk us through that example sure so as I said the impact token is our base token that will be the the value token that purchasers will buy in order to fund projects once we go beyond that and we now have what we call a Jen credit it may not be a token in the traditional sense or a coin it's a credit that allows us to transact with the ledger that way we can know about these people one of the greatest opportunities that we feel that we have in the marketplace is identity and reputation you have a billion two people who don't have a connection what if we could learn about those billion too and understand how they use power and where they use power so Jen credits kind of off chain management that you're doing you write to the ledger for in term util access right for that Tran action I got to ask you about things like spoofing why can't I just take your energy this is where the tokens become interesting because I mean it should solve the spoofing problem well right and you know energy energy needs to be passed down copper it's got to go on a wire that doesn't mean somebody's not going to cut the wire and bootleg it and all that stuff smoothing is not going to be the problem in this case it is a physical connection that needs to be made our smart meters allow for us to turn on or off let that connection by the user right if he doesn't pay you don't forget it yeah you know there's vandalism they're stuffed all over the world and we have methods in place to try and mitigate that as much as possible you you saw our platform that we're building we're tokenizing our media business amazing you liked it was good thanks for the plug there I was an aspirin and we were talking last night about our you know generational gap between us and our kids and you have your son here and your son's working with you my sons Alex working with us we have a young team as well I want you to talk about someone who's so experienced in the business you've done a lot of variety adventures from you know film to entertainment technology us older veterans it's the polite way to say it have seen the movie before they've seen the waves this is a huge way but this wave is gonna be can surf a few of them hang ten on our boards but this wave is really gonna be powered and led by the younger generation what's your thoughts share your vision of the role that the younger generation has to take here and what makes them capable in your mind okay so I'm gonna answer that question two ways first of all I'm so enamored with what the younger generation is trying to do with this corruption let's change the existing paradigm and make something better that's what blockchain allows for all sorts of industries goods and services right it's gonna be amazing what these guys come up with that's one of the things I love about doing this thing right I'm an old guy and I get to hang around these young people makes me feel young again yeah but the other thing that we have and I think you share it as well as we have to offer to these young guys experience right it's not like we're gonna go out to a market that we don't know about and try and explore it for success you know I've been in the renewables business for ten years delivering projects to 35 countries I got my boots on the ground I got my hands dirty doing this for 10 years now and I think the other part of that building this project and making it successful is the team that we've put together behind it we have an advisor who advises presidents dr. Michael Dorsey that's really important that's valuable that he understands the global marketplace the way he does the other one is Vinay Gupta who has been in blockchain since the 90s and has always wanted to work in the developing world with a block came distributed ledger technology that's really important I think I want to just double down and we amplify that point this is not a young man's game only exclusively it's such this markets attracting alpha entrepreneurs older veterans because as you said earlier it disrupts every vertical that's right so experience and mentorship bringing people together that can help that's right celebrate the disruption that's right driven by the young guys cool I love that but it's not like Zuckerberg made this one comment oh if you're not under the age of 30 then you don't know such delivery he got his ass handed to him on that but in this case this market is open and willing to learn and the disruptions the mission that's right and this team matters that's our experience the makeup of your board makeup of your advisors since a roll for everybody look experiences capital right it is its own virtual currency having been in all these countries having worked with presidents having worked in the 90s you know since the 90s and what that is valuable it's intangible but it is valuable dan I think we just invented a new category in the ico category an advisor tokens [Laughter] cottage industry believe tokens anyway but imagine if you could actually measure an advisor yeah the quality of adviser and the roles that they play absolutely as a token that's coming up next in our our next I see oh hey I really appreciate what you're doing I love how you work with your son father-son team you recognize the role of how the generations can shift together love it love your mission thank you thanks for sharing the news coverage here in Puerto Rico been here on the island all week getting the best stories the best people sharing them with you were open content that's the cube doing our part here at coin agenda for one day we're not gonna be you tomorrow go to Vegas just came back from watching unbound great stuff John let me give you the the URL if you don't mind no problem please if you want to go learn more about us impact PPI calm great job impact PBA calm is the cube live coverage here in Puerto Rico more after this short break

>> Narrator: New York City, it's the Cube covering CyberConnect 2017 brought to you by Centrify and the Institute for Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> Welcome back, everyone. This is the Cube's live coverage in New York City's Grand Hyatt Ballroom for CyberConnect 2017 presented by Centrify. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of the Cube with my co-host this week is Dave Vellante, my partner and co-founder and co-CEO with me in SiliconAngle Media in the Cube. Our next guest is James Scott who is the co-founder and senior fellow at ICIT. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks for having me. >> You guys are putting on this event, really putting the content together. Centrify, just so everyone knows, is underwriting the event but this is not a Centrify event. You guys are the key content partner, developing the content agenda. It's been phenomenal. It's an inaugural event so it's the first of its kind bringing in industry, government, and practitioners all together, kind of up leveling from the normal and good events like Black Hat and other events like RSA which go into deep dives. Here it's a little bit different. Explain. >> Yeah, it is. We're growing. We're a newer think tank. We're less than five years old. The objective is to stay smaller. We have organizations, like Centrify, that came out of nowhere in D.C. so we deal, most of what we've done up until now has been purely federal and on the Hill so what I do, I work in the intelligence community. I specialize in social engineering and then I advise in the Senate for the most part, some in the House. We're able to take these organizations into the Pentagon or wherever and when we get a good read on them and when senators are like, "hey, can you bring them back in to brief us?" That's when we know we have a winner so we started really creating a relationship with Tom Kemp, who's the CEO and founder over there, and Greg Cranley, who heads the federal division. They're aggressively trying to be different as opposed to trying to be like everyone else, which makes it easy. If someone wants to do something, they have to be a fellow for us to do it, but if they want to do it, just like if they want to commission a paper, we just basically say, "okay, you can pay for it but we run it." Centrify has just been excellent. >> They get the community model. They get the relationship that you have with your constituents in the community. Trust matters, so you guys are happy to do this but more importantly, the content. You're held to a standard in your community. This is new, not to go in a different direction for a second but this is what the community marketing model is. Stay true to your audience and trust. You're relied upon so that's some balance that you guys have to do. >> The thing is we deal with cylance and others. Cylance, for example, was the first to introduce machine learning artificial intelligence to get passed that mutating hash for endpoint security. They fit in really well in the intelligence community. The great thing about working with Centrify is they let us take the lead and they're very flexible and we just make sure they come out on top each time. The content, it's very content driven. In D.C., we have at our cocktail receptions, they're CIA, NSA, DARPA, NASA. >> You guys are the poster child of be big, think small. >> Exactly. Intimate. >> You say Centrify is doing things differently. They're not falling in line like a lemming. What do you mean by that? What is everybody doing that these guys are doing differently? >> I think in the federal space, I think commercial too, but you have to be willing to take a big risk to be different so you have to be willing to pay a premium. If people work with us, they know they're going to pay a premium but we make sure they come out on top. What they do is, they'll tell us, Centrify will be like, "look, we're going to put x amount of dollars into a lunch. "Here are the types of pedigree individuals "that we need there." Maybe they're not executives. Maybe they're the actual practitioners at DHS or whatever. The one thing that they do different is they're aggressively trying to deviate from the prototype. That's what I mean. >> Like a vendor trying to sell stuff. >> Yeah and the thing is, that's why when someone goes to a Centrify event, I don't work for Centrify (mumbles). That's how they're able to attract. If you see, we have General Alexander. We've got major players here because of the content, because it's been different and then the other players want to be on the stage with other players, you know what I mean. It almost becomes a competition for "hey, I was asked to come to an ICIT thing" you know, that sort of thing. That's what I mean. >> It's reputation. You guys have a reputation and you stay true to that. That's what I was saying. To me, I think this is the future of how things get done. When you have a community model, you're held to a standard with your community. If you cross the line on that standard, you head fake your community, that's the algorithm that brings you a balance so you bring good stuff to the table and you vet everyone else on the other side so it's just more of a collaboration, if you will. >> The themes here, what you'll see is within critical infrastructure, we try to gear this a little more towards the financial sector. We brought, from Aetna, he set up the FS ISAC. Now he's with the health sector ISAC. For this particular geography in New York, we're trying to have it focus more around health sector and financial critical infrastructure. You'll see that. >> Alright, James, I've got to ask you. You're a senior fellow. You're on the front lines with a great Rolodex, great relationships in D.C., and you're adivising and leaned upon by people making policy, looking at the world and the general layout in which, the reality is shit's happening differently now so the world's got to change. Take us through a day in the life of some of the things you guys are seeing and what's the outlook? I mean, it's like a perfect storm of chaos, yet opportunity. >> It really depends. Each federal agency, we look at it from a Hill perspective, it comes down to really educating them. When I'm in advising in the House, I know I'm going to be working with a different policy pedigree than a Senate committee policy expert, you know what I mean. You have to gauge the conversation depending on how new the office is, House, Senate, are they minority side, and then what we try to do is bring the issues that the private sector is having while simultaneously hitting the issues that the federal agency space is. Usually, we'll have a needs list from the CSWEP at the different federal agencies for a particular topic like the Chinese APTs or the Russian APT. What we'll do is, we'll break down what the issue is. With Russia, for example, it's a combination of two types of exploits that are happening. You have the technical exploit, the malicious payload and vulnerability in a critical infrastructure network and then profiling those actors. We also have another problem, the influence operations, which is why we started the Center for Cyber Influence Operations Studies. We've been asked repeatedly since the elections last year by the intelligence community to tell us, explain this new propaganda. The interesting thing is the synergies between the two sides are exploiting and weaponizing the same vectors. While on the technical side, you're exploiting a vulnerability in a network with a technical exploit, with a payload, a compiled payload with a bunch of tools. On the influence operations side, they're weaponizing the same social media platforms that you would use to distribute a payload here but only the... >> Contest payload. Either way you have critical infrastructure. The payload being content, fake content or whatever content, has an underpinning that gamification call it virality, network effect and user psychology around they don't really open up the Facebook post, they just read the headline and picture. There's a dissonance campaign, or whatever they're running, that might not be critical to national security at that time but it's also a post. >> It shifts the conversation in a way where they can use, for example, right now all the rage with nation states is to use metadata, put it into big data analytics, come up with a psychographic algorithm, and go after critical infrastructure executives with elevated privileges. You can do anything with those guys. You can spearfish them. The Russian modus operandi is to call and act like a recruiter, have that first touch of contact be the phone call, which they're not expecting. "Hey, I got this job. "Keep it on the down low. Don't tell anybody. "I'm going to send you the job description. "Here's the PDF." Take it from there. >> How should we think about the different nation state actors? You mentioned Russia, China, there's Iran, North Korea. Lay it out for us. >> Each geography has a different vibe to their hacking. With Russia you have this stealth and sophistication and their hacking is just like their espionage. It's like playing chess. They're really good at making pawns feel like they're kings on the chessboard so they're really good at recruiting insider threats. Bill Evanina is the head of counterintel. He's a bulldog. I know him personally. He's exactly what we need in that position. The Chinese hacking style is more smash and grab, very unsophisticated. They'll use a payload over and over again so forensically, it's easy to... >> Dave: Signatures. >> Yeah, it is. >> More shearing on the tooling or whatever. >> They'll use code to the point of redundancy so it's like alright, the only reason they got in... Chinese get into a network, not because of sophistication, but because the network is not protected. Then you have the mercenary element which is where China really thrives. Chinese PLA will hack for the nation state during the day, but they'll moonlight at night to North Korea so North Korea, they have people who may consider themselves hackers but they're not code writers. They outsource. >> They're brokers, like general contractors. >> They're not sophisticated enough to carry out a real nation state attack. What they'll do is outsource to Chinese PLA members. Chinese PLA members will be like, "okay well, here's what I need for this job." Typically, what the Chinese will do, their loyalties are different than in the west, during the day they'll discover a vulnerability or an O day. They won't tell their boss right away. They'll capitalize off of it for a week. You do that, you go to jail over here. Russia, they'll kill you. China, somehow this is an accepted thing. They don't like it but it just happens. Then you have the eastern European nations and Russia still uses mercenary elements out of Moscow and St. Petersburg so what they'll do is they will freelance, as well. That's when you get the sophisticated, carbonic style hack where they'll go into the financial sector. They'll monitor the situation. Learn the ins and outs of everything having to do with that particular swift or bank or whatever. They go in and those are the guys that are making millions of dollars on a breach. Hacking in general is a grind. It's a lot of vulnerabilities work, but few work for long. Everybody is always thinking there's this omega code that they have. >> It's just brute force. You just pound it all day long. >> That's it and it's a grind. You might have something that you worked on for six months. You're ready to monetize. >> What about South America? What's the vibe down there? Anything happening in there? >> Not really. There is nothing of substance that really affects us here. Again, if an organization is completely unprotected. >> John: Russia? China? >> Russia and China. >> What about our allies? >> GCHQ. >> Israel? What's the collaboration, coordination, snooping? What's the dynamic like there? >> We deal, mostly, with NATO and Five Eyes. I actually had dinner with NATO last night. Five Eyes is important because we share signals intelligence and most of the communications will go through Five Eyes which is California, United States, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. Those are our five most important allies and then NATO after that, as far as I'm concerned, for cyber. You have the whole weaponization of space going on with SATCOM interception. We're dealing with that with NASA, DARPA. Not a lot is happening down in South America. The next big thing that we have to look at is the cyber caliphate. You have the Muslim brotherhood that funds it. Their influence operations domestically are extremely strong. They have a lot of contacts on the Hill which is a problem. You have ANTIFA. So there's two sides to this. You have the technical exploit but then the information warfare exploit. >> What about the bitcoin underbelly that started with the silk roads and you've seen a lot of bitcoin. Money laundering is a big deal, know your customer. Now regulation is part of big ICOs going on. Are you seeing any activity from those? Are they pulling from previous mercenary groups or are they arbitraging just more free? >> For updating bitcoin? >> The whole bitcoin networks. There's been an effort to commercialize (mumbles) so there's been a legitimate track to bring that on but yet there's still a lot of actors. >> I think bitcoin is important to keep and if you look at the more black ops type hacking or payment stuff, bitcoin is an important element just as tor is an important element, just as encryption is an important element. >> John: It's fundamental, actually. >> It's a necessity so when I hear people on the Hill, I have my researcher, I'm like, "any time you hear somebody trying to have "weakened encryption, back door encryption" the first thing, we add them to the briefing schedule and I'm like, "look, here's what you're proposing. "You're proposing that you outlaw math. "So what? Two plus two doesn't equal four. "What is it? Three and a half? "Where's the logic?" When you break it down for them like that, on the Hill in particular, they begin to get it. They're like, "well how do we get the intelligence community "or the FBI, for example, to get into this iphone?" Civil liberties, you've got to take that into consideration. >> I got to ask you a question. I interviewed a guy, I won't say his name. He actually commented off the record, but he said to me, "you won't believe how dumb some of these state actors are "when it comes to cyber. "There's some super smart ones. "Specifically Iran and the Middle East, "they're really not that bright." He used an example, I don't know if it's true or not, that stuxnet, I forget which one it was, there was a test and it got out of control and they couldn't pull it back and it revealed their hand but it could've been something worse. His point was they actually screwed up their entire operation because they're doing some QA on their thing. >> I can't talk about stuxnet but it's easy to get... >> In terms of how you test them, how do you QA your work? >> James: How do you review malware? (mumbles) >> You can't comment on the accuracy of Zero Days, the documentary? >> Next question. Here's what you find. Some of these nation state actors, they saw what happened with our elections so they're like, "we have a really crappy offensive cyber program "but maybe we can thrive in influence operations "in propaganda and whatever." We're getting hit by everybody and 2020 is going to be, I don't even want to imagine. >> John: You think it's going to be out of control? >> It's going to be. >> I've got to ask this question, this came up. You're bringing up a really good point I think a lot of people aren't talking about but we've brought up a few times. I want to keep on getting it out there. In the old days, state on state actors used to do things, espionage, and everyone knew who they were and it was very important not to bring their queen out, if you will, too early, or reveal their moves. Now with Wikileaks and public domain, a lot of these tools are being democratized so that they can covertly put stuff out in the open for enemies of our country to just attack us at will. Is that happening? I hear about it, meaning that I might be Russia or I might be someone else. I don't want to reveal my hand but hey, you ISIS guys out there, all you guys in the Middle East might want to use this great hack and put it out in the open. >> I think yeah. The new world order, I guess. The order of things, the power positions are completely flipped, B side, counter, whatever. It's completely not what the establishment was thinking it would be. What's happening is Facebook is no more relevant, I mean Facebook is more relevant than the UN. Wikileaks has more information pulsating out of it than a CIA analyst, whatever. >> John: There's a democratization of the information? >> The thing is we're no longer a world that's divided by geographic lines in the sand that were drawn by these two guys that fought and lost a war 50 years ago. We're now in a tribal chieftain digital society and we're separated by ideological variation and so you have tribe members here in the US who have fellow tribe members in Israel, Russia, whatever. Look at Anonymous. Anonymous, I think everyone understands that's the biggest law enforcement honeypot there is, but you look at the ideological variation and it's hashtags and it's keywords and it's forums. That's the Senate. That's congress. >> John: This is a new reality. >> This is reality. >> How do you explain that to senators? I was watching that on TV where they're trying to grasp what Facebook is and Twitter. (mumbles) Certainly Facebook knew what was going on. They're trying to play policy and they're new. They're newbies when it comes to policy. They don't have any experience on the Hill, now it's ramping up and they've had some help but tech has never been an actor on the stage of policy formulation. >> We have a real problem. We're looking at outside threats as our national security threats, which is incorrect. You have dragnet surveillance capitalists. Here's the biggest threats we have. The weaponization of Facebook, twitter, youtube, google, and search engines like comcast. They all have a censorship algorithm, which is how they monetize your traffic. It's censorship. You're signing your rights away and your free will when you use google. You're not getting the right answer, you're getting the answer that coincides with an algorithm that they're meant to monetize and capitalize on. It's complete censorship. What's happening is, we had something that just passed SJ res 34 which no resistance whatsoever, blew my mind. What that allows is for a new actor, the ISPs to curate metadata on their users and charge them their monthly fee as well. It's completely corrupt. These dragnet surveillance capitalists have become dragnet surveillance censorists. Is that a word? Censorists? I'll make it one. Now they've become dragnet surveillance propagandists. That's why 2020 is up for grabs. >> (mumbles) We come from the same school here on this one, but here's the question. The younger generation, I asked a gentleman in the hallway on his way out, I said, "where's the cyber west point? "We're the Navy SEALS in this new digital culture." He said, "oh yeah, some things." We're talking about the younger generation, the kids playing Call of Duty Destiny. These are the guys out there, young kids coming up that will probably end up having multiple disciplinary skills. Where are they going to come from? So the question is, are we going to have a counterculture? We're almost feeling like what the 60s were to the 50s. Vietnam. I kind of feel like maybe the security stuff doesn't get taken care of, a revolt is coming. You talk about dragnet censorship. You're talking about the lack of control and privacy. I don't mind giving Facebook my data to connect with my friends and see my thanksgiving photos or whatever but now I don't want fake news jammed down my throat. Anti-Trump and Anti-Hillary spew. I didn't buy into that. I don't want that anymore. >> I think millennials, I have a 19 year old son, my researchers, they're right out of grad school. >> John: What's the profile like? >> They have no trust whatsoever in the government and they laugh at legislation. They don't care any more about having their face on their Facebook page and all their most intimate details of last night's date and tomorrow's date with two different, whatever. They just don't... They loathe the traditional way of things. You got to talk to General Alexander today. We have a really good relationship with him, Hayden, Mike Rogers. There is a counterculture in the works but it's not going to happen overnight because we have a tech deficit here where we need foreign tech people just to make up for the deficit. >> Bill Mann and I were talking, I heard the general basically, this is my interpretation, "if we don't get our shit together, "this is going to be an f'd up situation." That's what I heard him basically say. You guys don't come together so what Bill talked about was two scenarios. If industry and government don't share and come together, they're going to have stuff mandated on them by the government. Do you agree? >> I do. >> What's going to happen? >> The argument for regulation on the Hill is they don't want to stifle innovation, which makes sense but then ISPs don't innovate at all. They're using 1980s technology, so why did you pass SJ res 34? >> John: For access? >> I don't know because nation states just look at that as, "oh wow another treasure trove of metadata "that we can weaponize. "Let's start psychographically charging alt-left "and alt-right, you know what I mean?" >> Hacks are inevitable. That seems to be the trend. >> You talked before, James, about threats. You mentioned weaponization of social. >> James: Social media. >> You mentioned another in terms of ISPs I think. >> James: Dragnet. >> What are the big threats? Weaponization of social. ISP metadata, obviously. >> Metadata, it really depends and that's the thing. That's what makes the advisory so difficult because you have to go between influence operations and the exploit because the vectors are used for different things in different variations. >> John: Integrated model. >> It really is and so with a question like that I'm like okay so my biggest concern is the propaganda, political warfare, the information warfare. >> People are underestimating the value of how big that is, aren't they? They're oversimplifying the impact of info campaigns. >> Yeah because your reality is based off of... It's like this, influence operations. Traditional media, everybody is all about the narrative and controlling the narrative. What Russia understands is to control the narrative, the most embryo state of the narrative is the meme. Control the meme, control the idea. If you control the idea, you control the belief system. Control the belief system, you control the narrative. Control the narrative, you control the population. No guns were fired, see what I'm saying? >> I was explaining to a friend on Facebook, I was getting into a rant on this. I used a very simple example. In the advertising world, they run millions of dollars of ad campaigns on car companies for post car purchase cognitive dissonance campaigns. Just to make you feel good about your purchase. In a way, that's what's going on and explains what's going on on Facebook. This constant reinforcement of these beliefs whether its for Trump or Hillary, all this stuff was happening. I saw it firsthand. That's just one small nuance but it's across a spectrum of memes. >> You have all these people, you have nation states, you have mercenaries, but the most potent force in this space, the most hyperevolving in influence operations, is the special interest group. The well-funded special interests. That's going to be a problem. 2020, I keep hitting that because I was doing an interview earlier. 2020 is going to be a tug of war for the psychological core of the population and it's free game. Dragnet surveillance capitalists will absolutely be dragnet surveillance propagandists. They will have the candidates that they're going to push. Now that can also work against them because mainstream media, twitter, Facebook were completely against trump, for example, and that worked in his advantage. >> We've seen this before. I'm a little bit older, but we are the same generation. Remember when they were going to open up sealex? Remember the last mile for connectivity? That battle was won before it was even fought. What you're saying, if I get this right, the war and tug of war going on now is a big game. If it's not played in one now, this jerry rigging, gerrymandering of stuff could happen so when people wake up and realize what's happened the game has already been won. >> Yeah, your universe as you know it, your belief systems, what you hold to be true and self evident. Again, the embryo. If you look back to the embryo introduction of that concept, whatever concept it is, to your mind it came from somewhere else. There are very few things that you believe that you came up with yourself. The digital space expedites that process and that's dangerous because now it's being weaponized. >> Back to the, who fixes this. Who's the watchdog on this? These ideas you're talking about, some of them, you're like, "man that guy has lost it, he's crazy." Actually, I don't think you're crazy at all. I think it's right on. Is there a media outlet watching it? Who's reporting on it? What even can grasp what you're saying? What's going on in D.C.? Can you share that perspective? >> Yeah, the people that get this are the intelligence community, okay? The problem is the way we advise is I will go in with one of the silos in the NSA and explain what's happening and how to do it. They'll turn around their computer and say, "show me how to do it. "How do you do a multi vector campaign "with this meme and make it viral in 30 minutes." You have to be able to show them how to do it. >> John: We can do that. Actually we can't. >> That sort of thing, you have to be able to show them because there's not enough practitioners, we call them operators. When you're going in here, you're teaching them. >> The thing is if they have the metadata to your treasure trove, this is how they do it. I'll explain here. If they have the metadata, they know where the touch points are. It's a network effect mole, just distributive mole. They can put content in certain subnetworks that they know have a reaction to the metadata so they have the knowledge going in. It's not like they're scanning the whole world. They're monitoring pockets like a drone, right? Once they get over the territory, then they do the acquired deeper targets and then go viral. That's basically how fake news works. >> See the problem is, you look at something like alt-right and ANTIFA. ANTIFA, just like Black Lives Matter, the initiatives may have started out with righteous intentions just like take a knee. These initiatives, first stage is if it causes chaos, chaos is the op for a nation state in the US. That's the op. Chaos. That's the beginning and the end of an op. What happens is they will say, "oh okay look, this is ticking off all these other people "so let's fan the flame of this take a knee thing "hurt the NFL." Who cares? I don't watch football anyway but you know, take a knee. It's causing all this chaos. >> John: It's called trolling. >> What will happen is Russia and China, China has got their 13 five year plan, Russia has their foreign influence operations. They will fan that flame to exhaustion. Now what happens to the ANTIFA guy when he's a self-radicalized wound collector with a mental disorder? Maybe he's bipolar. Now with ANTIFA, he's experienced a heightened more extreme variation of that particular ideology so who steps in next? Cyber caliphate and Muslim brotherhood. That's why we're going to have an epidemic. I can't believe, you know, ANTIFA is a domestic terrorist organization. It's shocking that the FBI is not taking this more serious. What's happening now is Muslim brotherhood funds basically the cyber caliphate. The whole point of cyber caliphate is to create awareness, instill the illusion of rampant xenophobia for recruiting. They have self-radicalized wound collectors with ANTIFA that are already extremists anyway. They're just looking for a reason to take that up a notch. That's when, cyber caliphate, they hook up with them with a hashtag. They respond and they create a relationship. >> John: They get the fly wheel going. >> They take them to a deep web forum, dark web forum, and start showing them how it works. You can do this. You can be part of something. This guy who was never even muslim now is going under the ISIS moniker and he acts. He drives people over in New York. >> They fossilized their belief system. >> The whole point to the cyber caliphate is to find actors that are already in the self-radicalization phase but what does it take psychologically and from a mentoring perspective, to get them to act? That's the cyber caliphate. >> This is the value of data and context in real time using the current events to use that data, refuel their operation. It's data driven terrorism. >> What's the prescription that you're advising? >> I'm not a regulations kind of guy, but any time you're curating metadata like we're just talking about right now. Any time you have organizations like google, like Facebook, that have become so big, they are like their own nation state. That's a dangerous thing. The metadata curation. >> John: The value of the data is very big. That's the point. >> It is because what's happening... >> John: There's always a vulnerability. >> There's always a vulnerability and it will be exploited and all that metadata, it's unscrubbed. I'm not worried about them selling metadata that's scrubbed. I'm worried about the nation state or the sophisticated actor that already has a remote access Trojan on the network and is exfiltrating in real time. That's the guy that I'm worried about because he can just say, "forget it, I'm going to target people that are at this phase." He knows how to write algorithms, comes up with a good psychographic algorithm, puts the data in there, and now he's like, "look I'm only going to promote this concept, "two people at this particular stage of self-radicalization "or sympathetic to the kremlin." We have a big problem on the college campuses with IP theft because of the Chinese Students Scholar Associations which are directly run by the Chinese communist party. >> I heard a rumor that Equifax's franchising strategy had partners on the VPN that were state sponsored. They weren't even hacking, they had full access. >> There's a reason that the Chinese are buying hotels. They bought the Waldorf Astoria. We do stuff with the UN and NATO, you can't even stay there anymore. I think it's still under construction but it's a no-no to stay there anymore. I mean western nations and allies because they'll have bugs in the rooms. The WiFi that you use... >> Has fake certificates. >> Or there's a vulnerability that's left in that network so the information for executives who have IP or PII or electronic health records, you know what I mean? You go to these places to stay overnight, as an executive, and you're compromised. >> Look what happened with Eugene Kaspersky. I don't know the real story. I don't know if you can comment, but someone sees that and says, "this guy used to have high level meetings "at the Pentagon weekly, monthly." Now he's persona non grata. >> He fell out of favor, I guess, right? It happens. >> James, great conversation. Thanks for coming on the Cube. Congratulations on the great work you guys are doing here at the event. I know the content has been well received. Certainly the key notes we saw were awesome. CSOs, view from the government, from industry, congratulations. James Scott who is the co founder and senior fellow of ICIT, Internet Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> James: Institute of Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> T is for tech. >> And the Center for Cyber Influence Operations Studies. >> Good stuff. A lot of stuff going on (mumbles), exploits, infrastructure, it's all mainstream. It's the crisis of our generation. There's a radical shift happening and the answers are all going to come from industry and government coming together. This is the Cube bringing the data, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Thanks for watching. More live coverage after this short break. (music)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans it's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2017 brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to The Big Easy everybody this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. This is our first day of coverage of VeeamON 2017. We'll be here for two days. Hamman Ferreira is here, he's the CTO of BankservAfrica from South Africa, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thank you gentlemen always a pleasure to be here. >> So, quite a tour for you, you've been over here for awhile, checking out a few different, technology events, and what do you think of VeeamON? >> Amazing experience, It's always great connecting with the partners, connecting with the vendors, and with my fellow customers. So it's only one of us that can tell war stories, and embarrass to one another, so it's always great connecting with people that knows what you're going through. >> So tell us about your organization, the bank, what you guys are focused on. >> Yeah so Bankserv is a mutual that aligns with South Africa, a payments clearing house. So we get owned by the banks, and we deliver services back into the banks. So therefore, as you guys would note, the payments industry is going through a bit of a modernization exercise. So, long gone the traditional cash and check it's now all the different digital channels, and with that also all the mobile wallets coming into play. That necessitated us to have a re-look at the architectures. What is the new always on service levels all about and how do I build architecture that will help me exceed my service levels to the customers? For the past year, I'm in the job for about a year now, we've been going through infrastructure refresh program looking at every layer of a technology stack, and they're going from a new converged architecture right through the Vmworld, of Linux, Microsoft, Oracle, SQL and then finally on top, the Veeam product. So it gives me that great opportunity to protect data. Data is the new currency, I suppose. And we all got to make sure that's always available, it's protected, data, intelligence is in place, so before the whole product suite actually fits quite nicely into providing that 24/7/365 availability. >> So the big driver in your business, is the question senior execs at banks always ask is do people need banks? So that's a question that you've got to ask. You're serving the banks, mobile, and the whole, like you say, digital payments, block chain is a potentially a very disruptive force. So how does that affect, and digital is data, we say that a million times on theCUBE. So how does that affect how you protect data, not only the volume, but just the. >> Yeah, and what we see is different channels coming on inside Africa, for instance, we got like 150 odd mobile wallets. How do I, how do I bolt the inter-operability between them that you can actually use your bank's wallet with another bank in the region, or anywhere globally? How do I connect to ApplePay and all of those sort of things? So it necessitated us re-looking at the total architectural stack. Going through the whole modernization of infrastructure, you build it out for resiliency, you build it out for that high availability, you make sure that it is covered from every single angle, and then you partner with the right guy. So I've mentioned EMC, Oracle, VMware, and then Veeam to make sure that I can provide the right information, to the right customer, at the right time. Should something go wrong then I have got that safe back door. It's almost like Veeam has transformed the old traditional backup world, where it was always that traditional grudge purchase that's almost like insurance policies, someday I might need you. I think with their new stack, they are now moving into the full architecture they are now part of plan A and no longer plan B. It's almost taking disaster recovery and turning into business continuity and that's really what we wanted. >> Infrastructure has always been critical for financial services companies, what's been really interesting to watch, you talk about digital transformation. Many of the companies I talk to, they're developers, they're becoming software companies themselves and that puts a whole different kind of stress and strain on the IT people. Can you give us a little bit of color on that? What you've been seeing from the business transforming are you a software company now? >> Well I think my CEO would have a problem if I call ourselves a technology company. >> Stu: We understand the core business. >> It is in a sense, it's that solution making sure the product, the end service that you sell goes to the right channels and for that we have to think differently about how we develop, what we develop what we partner in with people and what do I take back to the technology shop and say develop this one myself. >> Talk a little bit about how you approach architecture and how that's changing. And then I'm interested in where data protection fits in. I infer from your title that it's more than data protection and availability. Describe your philosophy of architecture and how you spend your time thinking about how to support this digital transformation. >> Well first of all you've got to understand customer needs. So what is it that you need to update? And how do you actually contract in this new digital world. We have a new generation always on, always available, always there, and once you understand what you are obliged to do, you can also then take that input into designing the architecture, to getting the infrastructure and the services build out that enables you to succeed in those ways. That's always the point for the customer. And understand that to pick the right technology solution the right technology partners and I was fortunate in the South African market, got great support from vendors, but also the resellers. I've got a partner at Silicon Sky in South Africa that came in, rolled it out for me at a remarkable pace. Once you understand the target, or that you're going to we all know with payments, it's now changing new ISIS standards, it's mortgage data so it's more storage, more dependent on actually managing so if you don't pick the right tools right now, then that confirmation will actually be more difficult in a couple years time. That is the reason why we selected it and why we built, and we almost chose to build a new target state infrastructure so that we can migrate onto it instead of going back in fixing some of the legacy stuff. You can imagine some of the check processing systems, EFD systems, it's all been around for 15-25 years all of those sort of things. It' time that we re-look at it, quicker, faster, better and simpler. >> One of the big things we're hearing from Veeam here is that it's not just about virtualized environments they have virtual, they have physical, they're supporting SaaS applications and public cloud. How does cloud fit into your strategy, do you use public cloud as part of your technology stack? >> I don't at the moment but being owned by the banks and sitting on a massive data center and owning the networks into the banks. I'm looking at us forming my business into a financial services cloud business. Our whole company philosophy is building mutual digital infrastructure to the benefit of financial services. Looking here and having a lot of chats with partners about how do I enable that secure cloud for financial services work in my region. >> And you don't envision that will be a public cloud is that right, it would be your cloud? >> Sort of all the benefits of a public cloud, in a protected data center but they already own the shares in. I am a mutual, therefore there's no profit objective so I think I can do things at a bit of a better price point, a better solution point. You know the banking services are always afraid of regulations so a personal information protection, PCI all of those sorts of things. Being certified in that, think I can transform it and give them the same quality of service partnering up with some of the big brand. >> High degrees of automation to succeed at that vision. What does that mean? You just laid out that vision of a cloud that serves your constituents, other banks. What does that mean for data protection? How would you re-architect your data protection strategy to accommodate them? >> From all the different angles. For picking the right database technology picking up the right transport layers into it that makes it efficient, but makes it real-time. Once it's in aa structured format, how do I control that, the base. So how does for replication work how does for backup work so one of the big advantages for me in the Veeam world is that my backup window is quite drastically decreased. So that gives me just that opportunity to do more and making new strides so I can be much more proactive in all the housekeeping. Earlier this week we had the ransomware exercise now instead of doing backups, I can make sure that the patch layer was 100% installed and that sort of thing. It doesn't just come with the data protection of I guarantee you that the information will be there. I took on the environment that the still type ETL all of those things off site storage, and the auditor always on your case about when last have you tested the backup and all those good things. And this solution suite gives me the opportunity to make sure that our last line of defense is now solid, it's tested, it's regularly tested and I know that I can provide the right data, to the right person, at the right time. >> Ransomware obviously is on everybody's mind you know the last couple of weeks. We don't have to ask if security is a top priority obviously it must be, but how has it changed in the last you know year or two in your environment? >> It's layer, upon layer, upon layer, and that's the only that one can do is just to build it out like an onion make sure there's another layer served with it From the tightest encryption to all the different ones. I spend about 37% of my technology budget just on IT security products. >> You said 37%? >> 37% yeah, so that gives us, It is my job to be the trusted utility I'm only the trusted utility, of course I am the trusted So I've got to make sure that I protect data and customer information to the absolute. >> Does that 37% excluding staff or that include staff? >> That includes for staffing. >> It does, okay, so that's a full budget view. >> Yes. >> That's a big number. >> That is a big number but. >> It's gone up in the past couple of years? >> If I tell you that I secure your critical information should you demand me to make sure that it's actually protected at the IP levels and layers and I protect it not only from external but also from my internal guys of making sure the database access to the data the developers all of those, masking the right information so it's the only chance that you've got to protect yourself is to layer up and to make sure that there's defense on defense making sure that you've got all the right management tools in place to make sure that one of the nicest feature sets that I saw now is that Veeam now also spots some trends or irregular traffic patterns on my network. It will form another layer on top of it. >> There's obviously, a company like Veeam's in a position to provide analytics on anomalous, because you're backing up changed data continuously and presumably if somebody's trying to do some nefarious things you could see some anomalies in there right. >> Absolutely, and if I can validate that out of two or three different ways then make sure that I've got all the basics in place then I sleep a bit aasier at night. >> Alright, we'll leave it there. Hamman thanks very much for coming into theCUBE it's good to meet you. Thank you enjoyed it. >> All right, keep it right there everybody Stu and I will be right back. We're live from VeeamON in New Orleans, right back.

theCUBE presents an exclusive on the ground conversation with Oracle CEO Mark Hurd.  Mark sat down with John Fourier at Oracle's redwood city campus. >> Hello everyone welcome to a special presentation of theCUBE. I'm John Furrier   the founder of SiliconANGLE and we're here with Mark Hurd the Co-CEO for a one-on-one exclusive conversation , Mark welcome to theCUBE on the ground welcome.    >> Thanks John >> OpenWorld we were there with theCUBE >> So at Oracle and we were on Howard Street , we talked to 48 folks from Oracle executives and we learned a lot and we've been there covering it for six years and one of the striking things was Oracle's cloud message wasn't really well received by the press in the sense of they consider you kind of not in the top two. It's Amazon , Amazon it's this, that & the other thing. You guys had been doing cloud for awhile and I want to explore that conversation with you about Oracle's cloud your business startup landscape competition but one of the things that struck me was your interview on CNBC with John Ford he said are you determined to be in the cloud and you kind of had a shock back response and said determined we're in the cloud we're winning and quoted some stats give us the update you guys are in the cloud we watched that we learned that it's end to end what's the current status of Oracle's cloud play right now.    >> Thanks John,  well I think the way I would describe it numerically is not only in the cloud were a multi-billion dollar player in the cloud and so we started really several years ago in the application part of the cloud or SAS we've had tremendous success across the pillars of our SAS products or the pillars of applications in the industry we've added a platform capability or paths to that portfolio and now we've added infrastructure as a service so we're actually the only player in the cloud now today in infrastructure in pass and platform and in application so a complete portfolio differentiated by its by its scope and also differentiated by each of the pieces we believe to be Best of Breed and it's resulted in bookings I think that's out in the marketplace but I'll reiterated today. We'll book more business in the cloud  than this year than anybody else in the industry.  >> One of the things about the cloud that people love is the fact that it's fast it's got great economics but it has a scale component that customers are attracted too,  yet a lot of the folks who provide cloud technologies have different approaches.  Larry Ellison was on stage at Oracle OpenWorld saying he's long in the cloud game and you've reiterated that. What does that mean you know and the business folks out there they love this but they don't want to have different technologies that become outdated they want to have just solutions so every vendor's got different approaches why is Oracle well-positioned for this long win or the long players Larry's and you talked about.  >> Well first John we've been in this business a long time and so the fact is I think nobody's provided solutions at the depth and breadth that Oracle has over the past 20-some years so we've got a lot of experience in this business and that experience really as at the enterprise level so experience is is deep. That said to your point most of our customers spend a lot of money on IT and most of them have to go do this themselves. One of the promises of cloud is all of the things you said plus the fact it's it's simpler it's easier and you're actually not you're actually moving your innovation from your IT budget to Oracle's R&D budget and that's very attractive not just economically, it is ,attractive economically to your point but it's very attractive now to get in an area like HR. We have almost 2,000 programmers coming to work every day feature stringing that application would you rather be doing that on your IT staff or have that done by 2,000 people coming every work today who's on our payroll not yours to drive your innovation. >> global. Cloud is a global phenomenon  >>  The other impact is Obviously the geographic regions is hear now that as a key table stakes but you know it also brings in some economics on the economy side. What's your take on the global economy outlook right now in the world right now and and how does that affect customers decisions and buying patterns you know right now >> If you look over and when you say right now I'll look at it over the past couple of years. Revenue growth across the global economy the S&P 500 is fairly flat so you've had about one percent revenue growth of the S&P 500 over the past five years or so. Earnings growth though is about 5% and you've seen that reflected a bit to a degree in the stock market and the run-up of the stock market over the past several years so with revenue flat and earnings up that tells you that people are cutting expenses people are being very careful what they spend in what they invest and that gets reflected in IT and you see this in the IT industry and some of the results of the companies in it so companies are very much being very careful what they spend. I think companies overall are comfortable with their cost structures. They wish they could grow faster and it becomes the reason why cloud not just as a technology but as a business approach in a business model is extremely attractive to our customers into the broader market >> So they were there see expenses they don't only have to spend aggressively but they need to perform as well so it's also top-line >> John, it's a bigger problem than that it's a bigger problem than that because I'm worried about cost but at the same time many of our customers face competition. They face competition from startups new entrants into their industries and so they have to be innovative so it can't be just cut cost for cutting costs sake because if they do they can easily get disintermediated from their customer from their market and therefore they wind up not being competitive so the attractiveness back to the point about innovation and cloud is yes it's it's lower cost it's better economically yes it's simpler but it also drives more innovation at the same time and it's really the combination of all these factors that do the trick >> I put a question on my Twitter feed and Facebook I was interviewing you and I got a question I want to read to you as it says 'Marks on the road constant of customers then coming back to the ranch to meet Larry and Safra and the teams,  what is he hearing what is the consistent need from his customers and CEOs he's talking to who position themselves'  what's the common thread what's the holy grail for the customer that you're hearing from from consistently in the pattern that you're seeing your customer visits?  >> Help us get from here to there and and I think when you know you're in our industry you get a lot of people talking about cloud you know let's go to the cloud well if you're if you're not in the tech industry and you hear that you're like what does that mean and and then more importantly how do I get there so it's easy for us to talk about you know where we are. Most of our customers are stuck in where they are today and most of that is an on-premise many of those are older applications their homegrown applications so the process of not just telling us telling them where they could go but how do I help you get there.  At Oracle again we feel uniquely positioned and we're not just big in the cloud multibillion-dollar cloud player but we have a heritage on-premise and I see that as a very very strong asset and the ability now to bring those two worlds together and help our customers operate some of their IT on-premise, some of their IT in the cloud and be able to work those move those workloads back and forth seamlessly. >> you know you understand the athletes world >>  Timing is everything you  play tennis, being at the right spot the right time is really the business focus with customers and so when they hear cloud or hey this is a new technology from Silicon Valley think how well is that real so this isn't not so much as scared of the Silicon Valley innovation you're seeing you know for Tesla innovating things like GM and Ford but a lot of mainstream businesses want to have an answer to their problems not so much the shiny new technology. How do you balance the timing of delivering new cloud technologies with that next big thing in R&D or what not I mean what's the secret and what do customers look for is the timing issue of having the right solution at the right time what's your philosophy on that what's your take on that >> Well of course you're right I mean the fact is you know as we sit here in the Silicon Valley we tend to invent words every couple of years they're gonna solve all of the customers problems cloud big data whatever it may be whatever your problem is we're gonna we have a solution for it and the reality is most customers want to solve their business problem they're concerned about growing their revenue they're just they're concerned about becoming more efficient with their processes and so therefore we have to help them get that done so to your point we have to come in with real solutions, our solutions are baked around things as simple as running your HR system. You know running running your core accounting your core ERP and your core sales organization and being able to be able to automate those applications. I think you'll see  a tremendous workload coming around dev test. You know 30% of all of IT for example today is really done in developing and testing applications, it's all done on premise, it's all done with very little governance around it,  that whole process. Think of that, if Enterprise IT is a billion dollars,  Dev-Test at 30% is let's see I think 300 million dollars. How efficient do you think that spend is? Let's pretend it was 50 percent efficient,  which I believe is very high. A hundred and fifty billion dollars of opportunity for our customers to no longer have data centers,  computers, operating systems, databases,  people and be able to move all that to the cloud be able to access all of that capability from the cloud build and test their applications directly from the cloud and if they even want they can move those workloads to their on-premise production for their on premise production applications. So these are tremendous opportunities to change the way we think of IT and your point the timing has to be right there has to be an openness and an excitement about embracing these opportunities and I think that time is now. >> on that because it can be scariest shit >> What are you hearing from customers into the cloud and and and they might hey Oracle you know all you know you have your stuff and I hear the shiny new toy in Silicon Valley new technologies but what's in it for me that's the customer I've but I think mentality what's in it for me my problems as you said what it what is that issue for that for customers for your standpoint how do you how do they get over that fear to take that leap will the parachute open when they go to the cloud that that's the kind of mindset the customer I hear and I thought to what >>   >> various different people that have >> Well I mean they're different opinions I think many of those initial perceptions are beginning to change so I think you're getting more customers more openness and we're sitting here in the United States I think if you went back to to Europe and Western Europe there was always concerns about various issues security etc data sovereignty many of those issues I believe we're beginning to tackle and to resolve. But at the end of the day that the the real excitement is about the core things we started with,  this just costs less, this is simply driving more innovation,  and it's easier at the end of the day, and those are three fantastic benefits for customers.  >> So now there's a new class of buyers entering the market your customers and some of them are younger and you know we see some of them don't have voicemail setup, they don't really use email. Is Oracle's success generational and how are you guys bridging the gap or if no how are you bridging the gap to reach these new demographic of buyers who understand mobile and cloud have some that love that some are kind of you know as I mentioned earlier crossing the chasm on their own but this new generation of buyers what are you seeing >> there are you seeing a new demographic >> are you seeing a new class of buyers?  >> So it's a complex issue you bring up because the new generation in people sometimes generalize about these generations called Millennials,  etc.   They are both employees and customers and to a large degree they interrupt much of the status quo they work differently they also buy differently. Now at the same time remember that our customers have multiple generations of workers and multiple generations of customers so this actually gets quite quite interesting.  So if you take workers somebody my generation I like to might think of self myself as young and I'm in the technology etc but that the actual data says I'm not and I still work I still work in a workflow basis I use pieces of paper like you have today and and I look at those pieces of paper.   Not my kids. They work differently. They also work more collaboratively they work in groups but now I'm still in the company and so are a whole lot of Millennials that work at Oracle so we have to put processes and tools together that not only deal with what I do but what they do and make sure that we can all then work together that's a lot of work that's a lot of technology and it's actually made the business problem that we're talking about harder. Same thing from a customer perspective those same employees that work differently, they buy differently and you better be prepared to engage them where they want to be engaged,  how they want to be engaged, and that gives an opportunity for Oracle to help our customers innovate to give them better applications, better tools to go >> meet those customers and employees. >> Brings up a great point I mean it gets getting more complex on the business logic and business model and also the consumption and technology but isn't IT supposed to get easier?  I mean it once was easy compared to what it seems to be now what's your take on that it's got to get simpler what's your strategy. >> part of the issue is the data set >>   First of all the part of the continues to grow so the data set continues to grow and that drives tremendous desire for more information this while in some degree more data creates complexity it also creates tremendous amount of insight. The things we can do today we would never have thought of 10 years ago I mean there are things think about, can you imagine the  world 15 years ago where we couldn't search for anything.   We didn't have,  think of all the tools we have today that we use every day that we didn't have think about it this way applications the average age of an application in this country is about 21 22 years old meaning they were built in 1993 1994 1995 pre-search pre-mobile pre- social pre everything,  that  we're used too, so as a result you have this really old infrastructure trying to support this this new world and that's part of the promise I think of these new applications. They're engineered with mobile integrated into the applications themselves,  they're integrated with collaboration tools from the ground up,  and this world will get continue to get easier.  >> One of the questions we're asking our on our wikibon analyst team to our surveys and our customers is which vendor will provide the value fastest for getting the most out of the data. This seems to be a question that's kind of buried a little bit in some of the conversations out in the marketplace but it seems to be consistent. The value of the data is seems to be really really important. Who's gonna build the tooling and the automation and the integration capabilities to maximize the data whether it comes from some integration on an iPhone or collaborative document or an ERP system it could cover them anywhere and or mixing and matching data that seems to be the focus what's your thoughts on that and getting the most out of the data and what is Oracle doing >> with that in that regard? >> Yeah well listen historically in our industry you basically had applications that produced data, you then taken that data extracted it from the transaction application and warehoused it or  marted or used whatever term you wanted to use, and then create a bunch of analytics through some very very experienced scientific users who then would distribute reports out to the rest of the company that's the history of sort of data analytics. I did that for a good part of the earlier part of my career and I would say things are changing now that those analytics have to have to move right next to the application itself, they have to become real-time,  they have to be integrated into the core applications.  So we see happening today in Oracle applications is no longer do you have to take data out of the application you have to integrate it directly into the application so you can now get real-time insights. The ability now to integrate structured data and unstructured data and do it in near real-time so that you can now make a decision on something based on early indicators and then merge it and integrate it with the core way that you run a company and that's how you'll see analytics evolve,  the ability to take massive amounts of unstructured data but it's not gonna be good enough just to analyze that unstructured data that's social data,  you're gonna have to be able to merge that data where the system that can now do something with it.  >> And customers telling you that there and you're hearing that from customers as well? >> to, I want data that allows me to make >> Listen the fundamentals come back the right decision at the right time with the right customer the right employee to optimize my business. How do I get through all of this massive amount of data that you've been talking about so that I can make the optimal decision at the right time to benefit my business. That's the key.   >> the trends in the industry that you're >> Let's talk about trends, competing in the technology landscape has been very robust over the past few years and specifically past three years. What's your take on the landscape now I mean obviously the table stakes that the bar that the bar to get into the game that they're at entry what is the technology landscape like today from your perspective as a CEO co-ceo of Oracle with your competitors and your customers >> Well I think the shift is significant to your point I think this forget the overused term of cloud but that method of computing at the application layer the platform layer and the infrastructure layer is clearly where this industry is  Oheaded I made a presentation at OpenWorld that I felt by 2025, I predicted that 80% of that workload will be in the cloud. And I think I associated I made this statement then that I may be slow,  it may go faster and and that shift has a seismic impact on on our industry and it will happen and the reason it will happen is because of the reasons I've keep coming back to it when the customer can get better economics,  the customer can get more innovation, and they can get something done more simply, they're gonna they're gonna go do it . That's gonna cause losers and that's going to cause winners and that's why we've made the investments we have,  that's why we've built out all the data centers around the world that we have,  it's why Oracle has rewritten all of its applications from the ground up hundred percent >> all of our products now have basically >> 100 percent all of our been cloudified, they've been rewritten from the ground up to be cloud ready. And it's critical for us John because we believe this is and Larry started on this a decade ago so this isn't something we we thought about like 18 months ago and said hey why don't we go do this this this this came back a long time ago even before the term cloud was popular so it's this is this whole method and approach to computing which which which is key and frankly we started out getting into the SAS business the applications business and it was clear when you're in the applications business to really do that right you had to be in the platform business and then really to be in the platform business you had to be in the infrastructure business and that's why when you look at the barrier to entry John the ability to build out all three layers of the cloud the ability  R&D wise to do that or from a financial capital perspective to acquire all that good luck trying to do that then to build the infrastructure the data center infrastructure and the capital and remember John you have to do all this in advance think of it as to get into the cloud business from a IT perspective it's like building a hotel and you have to build a hotel before you can rent a room nobody can stay in the hotel til it's built think of that on a much bigger scale as being what it takes to get into the global cloud business >> So it's not winner-take-all it's winner take most or >> listen I was public in my view that I >> They'll be a couple of winners I think think that they'll be probably a couple of application providers I predict Oracle will be one I don't know right now today there is no other company in the industry who has got a complete suite of SAS applications Oracle's the only one somebody eventually will get will get that done I believe and I believe you'll have a couple of providers in that part of the industry I think probably likely at the platform level you have a couple of platforms that survive you'll also find the ability for those platforms to work together and I think like anything you'll see a couple of providers two three providers at the infrastructure layer >> Is Oracle a one big cloud or is it a company of many clouds I mean saw an  acquisitions this week, AddThis, and  I saw the word datacloud  sounds good great good marketing data cloud but it makes sense it's social data you see marketing cloud and social cloud you get in your are they a collection of clouds or does it matter is it labeling as the long tail distribution?  >> are clearly a set of capabilities in the >>  Well it's branding I mean they Oracle public cloud. Those capabilities are a marketing cloud a sales cloud they are not if you will architected as separate clouds they are built on as I said earlier they are architected on the same platform everything is built on Fusion Middleware common platform common base common infrastructure that can work together. >> You talked about in your prediction here that you know all data >>   You talked about in your prediction here that all  enterprise data we stored in the cloud faster and cheaper you also announced that pricing was or might have been earlier that cheaper than glacier and Amazon is that consistent the trend that you see pushing the price down lower and lower for the data storage.  >> think at the infrastructure layer we've >>   Yes I mean I looked at that world as more of a commoditized world that you know basically the infrastructure is a service there you're selling compute and you're selling storage and we think that market will continue to decline in in price and we expect to be very aggressive with our pricing in that market >> the cycle cycle styves kenzan flow as >> I want to get a take on startups we've seen in the 90s when I did my first startup it was really hard to get into the business you're the provision of data center buy router,  buy a Sun box at that time was very expensive it was also hard to get customers if you were starting up an enterprise customer in this case and then the world shifted easy to get customers with open source what seemed to be shifting back around where it's hard for startups to get enterprise customers because of the scale and integration challenges and the SLA is and the global requirements compliance and the list goes on and on do you agree with that statement or do you see it differently that it's gonna be harder and harder for startups it might be easy to start building stuff but they actually come in and compete and win enterprise customers what's your take of the the appetite of >> and John you're talking about tech startups  >> or tech startups that sell say you know how cells store take and I've just invented an all flash array and it's kick-ass and it's gonna you know eat into Oracle Exadata and EMC and all these those guys and I'm gonna go sell it to GM or I have a software product that I want to sell to company so again getting into the enterprises used to be hard and then it got easy it seems to be getting hard again what's your take of the state of that >> a long a subject that's got that's got >> So again quite a bit to it I think first I don't think companies are gonna buy all stick on the application layer for a second and talk about application startups I don't think customers are gonna buy from a hundred different companies for their cloud applications I I think when you're looking at applications specifically you think about automating a vertical process but companies also have to work together horizontally not just vertically so I think in the end they will they will have fewer cloud providers I mentioned sort of to could a company have three or a four a couple best to breeds maybe but they're not going to have they're not gonna make the on-premise complexity and just move that complexity to the cloud this is an opportunity to make things simpler to your to your earlier point I think that's what will happen now we happen to be we acquire quite a bit as I know you know and so we actually get to look at a lot of startups and I would say you're right that that we see with many startups is they start off trying to as inexpensively as possible which is I don't think I try to do it as expensively as I could try to try to build a capability and then many run into problems with eventually scaling and being eventually being able to build out we see this as we as we are I think for startups one of the real attractiveness of the cloud is that no longer any of those costs you described a few minutes ago exist I can now go do the remember that dev test I talked about that dev test I talked about for the big company is the same thing you could do on the cloud you can go get Java you can get the Oracle database you can only use or pay for what you use no longer you have to buy a Sun server that you describe or get a license and you can build on the most industrial strength commercial capability in the world Oracle and you can do that now as a start-up and be enterprise-grade from the first piece of code you write. >> So being a world-class leader might be harder for start to crack that nut versus becoming part of an ecosystem >> think that's right I think what you said >> I is right and I was trying to address both I think as a start-up you have an opportunity to to build on on commercial-grade tools from from the beginning and I do think you're right that being part of an ecosystem almost assuredly will be necessary as this market matures.  >> week at CES before GM announcing >>  A lot of commentary this Lyft could deal with Lyft and big investments try to be like Uber and Tesla electronic cars to in-car entertainment so I'm going to say that the car is one big gadget smartphone Internet of Things device which is true that big data problem that brings up the question GM and Ford or incumbent leaders in Detroit and the automotive industry are shifting radically this digital transformation is that something that you see similar in other verticals that >>  Well I'll stick with that vertical for a second I mean that vertical has shifted dramatically over the years I mean it used to be those companies made money selling cars they no longer made money selling cars years ago they then made money on service now they don't make much money on service now it's going to become the services that sit in the car with those are entertainment services or whatever they may be and so it's gonna be very interesting in that industry how they innovate do they outsource those services to another technology company in the Silicon Valley or do those become the core differentiators of those companies and and it's it's going that disintermediation occurs industry by industry by industry we've now talked about tech and what the implications are for the cloud on tech same things occurring in virtually every vertical.  >>  So you said early it's you know they're an enabler or it's gonna freak people out it's it >> Well this is what happens with innovation when time comes this is why we've done Oracle what we've done.  We've moved as quickly to the cloud as we possibly could.  It doesn't mean our on-premise business isn't strategic and important to us of course it is and I think the combination of the two capabilities gives us a huge differentiator. But that said for us to move quickly was critical we think to our long-term success and that's why we've been as fast moving as we can and I believe that true in every industry.  If you spend doing words like balance protect all of those sort of verbs they don't lend themselves to long-term success.  >> Let's talk about the company now that you're leading with the team. The number one question I get to ask I was told to ask you was ask them how the Co-CEO job is going and I'd like to know what it's like in the day in the life of Mark Hurd with Safra Catz, Larry Ellison take us through some color around what goes on behind the curtain >>  No.  I think well first of all we've been together awhile so so this is not like a new new phenomena so we we think we have sort of a capability that we can do a lot of things at the same time I don't know that that there is a broader team in terms of experiences I'm not trying to say we're great or try to be arrogant about it at all but it gives us the capability to touch a lot of things at the same time.  I've been a CEO multiple times and I can tell you it's a lonely job it's a hard job and it has a lot of responsibilities associated with it the fact that you can get a team that brings with it different skills different capabilities and you get the right personalities that that blend together that's that's a blessing and if you can get it take it . >> That's not just at the top tier of the management team also it's a >> company's pretty strong you know it's a >> I'm glad you brought that up John because I get questions like that a lot about Larry or Safra or they get questions about about all that but the reality is we're 140 thousand people in this company so we're a we're a large company with an enormous number of talented people I mean Thomas Kurian who runs our software development organization John Fowler runs our hardware development organization Dave Donatelli are people running regions we have we have a lot of very very skilled people come our Chief Architect Edward Screven I mean we just have a lot of depth at >> oracle and so it's a lot bigger than >> And the newly hired Dave Donatelli who is a shark when it comes to infrastructure he is strong and how's he working out I mean how's the that's a big >> listen and Dave is really leading the >> I think Dave's done great I mean product management go-to-market efforts around all of our all of our systems team which is going through its own transformation because we see the way infrastructure is now being used today and it's going through a lot of changing and Dave's just a great addition to Oracle >> He should me he knows it he knows the EMC playbook and certainly they have their challenges so I ought to ask you a question another one is that the hardware middleware market is about integration you mentioned that horizontal integration how how challenging is that for you guys and is this part of the transformation message that you guys have done internally because you're asking customers to transform and so can you give an example where you've transformed yourself >> Well when you talk about the middleware market I actually you mentioned the middleware market at least in some of the transformation I actually think with all of the data that we described earlier the opportunity to integrate that data and to integrate that data in the cloud is a huge opportunity for us we introduced an Oracle OpenWorld integration cloud services Oracle integration cloud services and the opportunity now for us to bring that to market and bring that capability to customers you know fantastic opportunity >> Let's talk about competition my favorite subject HP split up EMC sold to Dell , IBM is trying to make a run at it what does all this mean for the marketplace and specifically customers because you know those are big those are big companies that are transitioning or struggling as I'm saying what should what does all that mean connect the dots for the industry dynamics for those >> Well I think the industry our industry is no different than any other industry it's looking for revenue growth it's got leaders that that are are being driven to to grow revenue to grow or means to grow cashflow and in many times when you realize you you can't do that or they they find that they they're not in a position to do that they change and and change is inevitable and that's all you're seeing here is the change of what we described earlier you've got a certain market that behaved a certain way for a long time that market is now interrupted it's going to cause certain people to fail it's going to cause certain people to combine and as a result that change is going to occur and if you're not able to do the things I described the things that Oracle's done so if you will cross the chasm then change is coming and I don't think >> you've seen the end of it John. >> And a lot of these folks made big bets years ago going back a decade what bets do you see not paying off and what bets should people be making to be competitive in this new era >> believe what I said about our strategy I >> Well I think if you're not first in the cloud to begin with you're not gonna be long for this industry point one point two if you don't have enough breath in the cloud and you're just a single player with a point solution you're probably not long for this world so in the end companies want more from fewer people they want help with innovation they want better economics and that's going to prove in the end to come from a few companies in my opinion I think you'll see the same cycle that we've seen before that you'll see companies that frankly remember if you went back to the 80s think about how many great companies were in this industry in the 80s when I started in the industry I'm shame to have to admit that a shame but I hate to have to admit I'm old enough so I started yeah and therefore you look good well they're all gone yeah I mean Wang is gone the Digital's gone Data General is gone this Prime Computer is gone I mean this happens a lot and and this is just us going back to the future where we've got an interruption in the industry it's gonna cause winners and losers and it's the reason John that we've made the investments we've we have we could have easily done none of this invested none of this capital and harvested our existing business and it would look great for a while yeah not long run.    >> Yeah and you and you guys invested in the future at the right time seems it's working great for you guys the numbers are good how do you invest in R&D of some of the numbers in the cloud in terms of revenue book asking . l >> don't we don't give out you know all of >> Welll we our data forward-looking projections but what we did in our last quarter was we talked about our growth in the cloud virtually double our bookings year-over-year we've now got a chance to be in the ball well I won't give numbers out right now because I was already gonna make a forward projection but think of us now as multiple billions of dollars in revenue in  PAS platform and SAS growing and as our revenue has grown John our growth rate has actually gone up we say one more time the revenues grown and the growth rate has increased and so I think this comes down to the fact that we've just gotten better and better at this we've added more people from a salesperson perspective more of our products have become available in the market to the point of the percent of our portfolio that's now available in the cloud and we've now got lots of references and so it's an exciting time for us >> I've got to ask about Amazon Web Services obviously they've been going to have to work with our database and saying they can suck all that in and it'll come up in a second but I interviewed the former CTO of EMC who's now doing a storage startup on his own and he had a comment and I said well  Amazon's winning he says well we always debate what inning are we in in the industry and  Dave Vellante and I'm my cohost argued that he thinks were in the seventh inning I think we're in the first inning and so the guests said no you guys were both wrong,   Amazon won Game one of the doubleheader Game two is about the enterprise and it's not even started so I wanna get your thoughts Amazon certainly did well and doing well and numbers are pretty clear with public cloud now they're aggressively moving into the enterprise and it's just different ballgame talk about the dynamics their vis-a-vis Oracle you're targeting much more business approach understanding the IT side of the business Amazon is kind of do-it-yourself you know launching new stuff every day what's the distinction between the two some love Amazon people love the success you know good job Amazon people you know we cover them we like them they have a good product but it's not the end game to your message what's the difference in the two >> All right I'm gonna stay away from all the baseball analogies I think that they nstarted out as a retailer they had an IT infrastructure to support a retailer I think very clever they needed a lot of IT capacity when retail season was at its height during the holidays they said we've got a bunch of used capacity during other parts of the  un year we'll go rent it to people so they can leverage it makes sense now as you start to move into other workloads as you start working into enterprise workloads and dealing with all of the issues that come up there are more complexities to come up I think that we are in the I'll just say early stages and and by the way remember one thing I mentioned to you I think earlier just before we started and started this interview it doesn't take much of a change in it to have a dramatic effect on the revenue of the industry so I mentioned earlier about this dev test thing 30% of the industry three hundred billion dollars if only 5% of that moves its 15 billion dollars 15 billion goes from somewhere some companies that are supplying that today to somebody else and that's the very beginning of this see I actually don't think very little of this workload today has moved compared to what it will be five to six to seven years from that so - from that just a sheer numerical dimension we're in the very beginnings the very early phases of this the ability to get the bulk of this market is the ability to move massive amounts of workloads from some of the most complicated jobs >> so we're just scratching the surface of what it means >> just beginning >> ok so talk about the customers that you have because you have a lot of customers you guys have a zillion customers Oracle is a dominant player for many many generations of IT and computing we've seen that but I'm sure some of them have Amazon presence or they're kicking the tires doing some shadow IT through some things how are you guys do that because you kind of partner with Amazon on one hand but you also have cuffs cuz you have customers there how is how is that conversation going with Oracle and Amazon you say hey whatever or is there >> no I think that customers can chose to take their Oracle licenses and run them on Amazon they can also get those same capabilities directly out of the Oracle cloud we can take jobs between Amazon and Oracle and have them work together so it's it's really the customer's choice as to what's best for the customer my general view would be that if a customer is doing a platform job writing an application in Java I'll probably get infrastructure from the same person I'm getting Java from so I'm more likely to buy that infrastructure from Oracle if I'm buying that application from Oracle or using that platform from Oracle but if a customer says I'd really like to do my platform job on Oracle and store some of that up on Amazon that's customer's choice >> Okay Amazon is on the list of competitors Larry said one of the things is seeing new competitors he's SAP and IBM now new names yes Amazon, Microsoft Azure seems to be doing well we don't see vmware on that list yet but i mean as you're speaking in a little bit of some of the other players market share and cloud people have different cloud visions Amazon certainly has their in incumbent business Microsoft's what's your take on them visa vie Oracle which one Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft for that >> I'd say Microsoft done a good job I think Microsoft has moved its it's estate to the cloud not very dissimilar from from Oracle their applications is Microsoft the competitor of Oracle I think the answer to that would be sort of but but in many cases not directly their applications are really different from our applications my guess is many of the people using infrastructure from Microsoft are using infrastructure because they use their IP and their platform and/or their applications so I think therefore they they're doing the job that strategically that you see Oracle's multiple billion dollar cloud business doing as well which is moving many of its core capabilities from on Prem to to to the cloud they also have the capability now to merge and on Prem business and a cloud business which again I think it's a really key differentiator as we move forward >> differentiation seem to be dependent >> It seems to be the upon what people had or have going on either past or present so with that there's different approaches so I got to answer the question I'm a customer pretend I'm a customer hey Mark how do I evaluate all this stuff in the day is this like I need a matrix of like who's got one no wonder one's got checkboxes what criteria should I use to decide who >> I think John it comes back to the core stuff of you know who's got the best stuff you know whose stuff really in the end does does the best job for you starting at the application layer through through the platform layer through through the infrastructure layer and then the fact that you can now get this stuff in the cloud is a huge advantage for all the reasons we've been talking about for the past past several minutes but it's still gonna be about who's got the best IP but whoever's got the best IP in the end probably matters - I mean you know performance security I can go through a lot of other issues John but let's start with who's got the best IP I promise you promise you we will perform from a performance perspective I promise you we will have the best security now that said so a customer has done a license on Amazon Web Services are certainly probably doesn't run as good as an Oracle listen I mean obviously I believe the IP you have I believe that we're pretty good at running Oracle workloads I actually believe we're the best in the world at running Oracle workloads and and and and and I think you're gonna see that get yet even better as we >> I can attest theCUBE  interviews on the 48 interviews we did it was pretty clear that Oracle is very well optimized for Oracle on Oracle no doubt and clearly the performances order of magnitude significant >> and our cloud will also be capable of >> But John let me add handling non Oracle workloads so you know we think in the end while we'd love the whole world to run on Oracle we believe there'll be a portion of the world that doesn't and the fact that you can run those capabilities on the Oracle cloud along with your Oracle workload becomes critical as well >> Yeah I want to drill down on that because one of the things that I've observed over the past decade and past five years in particular there's been kind of a Oracle huge community because you have huge customer base but it's always been like you know redstack its proprietary and it's kind of like some whether it's truthful not that's been kind of a narrative but now it's with my sequel you got a lot of open technologies this Oracle OpenWorld it became very clear that integration it's not about redstack anymore referring to Oracle's you know their boxes and brand it's Oracle runs great on Oracle but if you don't have Oracle  you can still be an Oracle customer so talk about that dynamic this is a significant opportunity for Oracle news business >> You know maybe the narrative is the way you describe the narrative and you lowered your voice you know I got a certain impression and from the words you said now that said Oracle's always run hybrid workloads multiple applications around the Oracle database SAP runs in the Oracle database lots of applications run on the Oracle database so I think Oracle's always been if you will open from that perspective while continuing to build a complete stack now I'd make the argument that the cloud in many ways is of any cloud provider is a proprietary stack I mean insert name here is what is by the way that you know what the middleware is that Salesforce uses or the database or the middleware that Workday uses or day you can go down company by company and and at the end of the day you really though don't know what's behind that it is really totally provided to you by that provider and that is what you see being shifted in the cloud you can make the argument and this gets very into another interesting debate much of IT has been the do-it-yourself sort of approach I'm gonna if I will as an IT staff become an R&D organization and if you're a CEO and not a tech CEO but as CEO of a company with an IT organization you have to ask yourself is that really what I want to do do I really want to glue an operating system to a server build anything from scratch sure support it and do all this work and and or would I rather have somebody do it for me now as long as the economics are right and as long as I have trust in that in that in that partner and I'm secure and all the things we've talked about but at the end of the day transferring a lot of work that doesn't give me a lot of economic value add and moving that as I've mentioned earlier to Oracle's R&D budget I think becomes really attractive for a whole suite of >> I think it's great I'll rephrase the question so Oracle has a business as great business and you have customers they have Oracle software and contract value increases they renew they buy a new license new technology you grow your customer base but with cloud native what we with the web skills you pointed out a lot of companies were successful building their own stuff because they didn't have the cash but they had expertise so they would build their own caching and myself and they support it and pick up that cost but now as IT moves to cloud native that's a huge deal they don't want the build there also I agree with you you're looking at me >> I will say this and I don't mean to interupt you but there still is quite a debate in big companies and this is one of these transitions we've talked about the transition really from a tech industry perspective but inside the customer inside IT organizations the cloud is a threat so when you when you look at it as like the mainframe guys many computers were threatened exactly yeah so I'm now in an IT organization you know this do-it-yourself thing this is quite a bit of job security I wrote this application I've got to glue this to this and this is all really complicated and if you talk to a CEO and not get a non tech CEO and you say listen you really don't want to mess with all this because this is really complex and I'm the only one that really knows how to do this this whole thing work we're gonna transfer that complexity to somebody else has its own degree of threat to IT organizations so that debate you described that debate today John is still not over >> I think the Holy Grail whoever can provide a cloud native scalable turnkey infrastructure will probably of course you're right win that business of course right >> this is why these these these moves to your point about what in inor we in or what phase are we in these things have have multiple episodes so >>  are we in that cloud native phase right now are we for the for the new customer comes to Oracle hey you know what I'm I'm growing I've been doing stuff in the cloud with Amazon I've been doing this over here got my bootstrap data center I really want to go to cloud in a big way and we're growing leaps and bounds >> I'll stick with what I said we're in the very beginning of this and and we're in the beauty of this that the amount of IT John the suite of applications you go to any of these big banks in the United States around the world they have just sores of applications most of which were homegrown many of which sit on those mainframes you say we're threatened 25 or 30 years ago this whole move is a big set of moves that will take you know several years and you know use my discussion of 10 years out where I think I'll had it it'll take time like that to move now what customers are gonna want again one more time is I'm not going to be able to take that whole on-prem capability and just say thank you move it over here it's not gonna work so therefore the ability to move this thing job by job and then to be able to coexist these hybrid environments over a period of time become a become a key issue for our customers >> move at their own pace basically not >> so have them happy for examples and I think devtest is a as as >> I think customers I give you much work as has to get done to do that is is a sort of an intellectual layup I I think you're gonna see a lot of devtest move quickly I think you're gonna see applications particularly those applications that don't differentiate the enterprise customer facing application that you think is your unique sacred sauce you may keep that as homegrown on-prem but those commercial applications that don't differentiate me I mean me being the company I will move to the cloud as as quickly as I can >> Great excitement at Oracle OpenWorld this year the theme of integration and we talked to some customers and they were excited by that it's a big problem so that's that's one thing I'd like to talk about the second thing is what confidence can you share with the customers around new growth stretch I was the organic M&A and  organic growth versus M&A your a big buyer you're not afraid to go out and pay a premium for world-class IP but also you're doing IP internally tie those two together integrations the big themes continue to advance the product side as well as the growth strategy around organic growth and buying companies that might fit into >> Sure we spend a fair amount of R&D starting with your second question when I came I think we started spending 3.8 billion and in R&D we'll probably spend 5.2 billion this year in R&D so we we are we invest but not all of it is date we have a few hundred million dollars of our as well so we spent R&D and in in addition to the D the way I like to think about the innovation of Oracle is it's the D it's the art and it's what we acquire and so we have not built everything we've had very much a buy and build strategy we bought in some capabilities that we weren't building and we've merged those to create the portfolio that we have today and yeah we're not gonna stop that's continuing that's the cadence of Oracle right just continue yeah I won't put anything but I will so stop and I will say that we're very focused and and and not at all hesitant when we see something that we think is strategic to us to bring it in and add it to the portfolio you mentioned something early I want to drill down and horizontal integration and growth and vertical integration sometimes people think that mutually exclusive horizontal industry standard commodity hardware was a rage with open-source that helped grow a lot of the market and the web-scale days now vertical integration where hey it works it's kick-ass high-performance you are I don't really care what's in there it works Oracle support set is also working Oracle was kind of people were kind of poopoo in this whole appliance thing go back up you know five years ago good call working so by the way that is the same strategy that's called the class hey so when you really look at vertical integration the cloud is the ultimate in vertical integration because somebody's done now all the work for you when you buy a I try to explain this to customers all the time that when when somebody buys an application in the cloud they have actually procured a hardware database middleware services a data center floor space security they've bought all of that at the same time and so this this shift to the cloud really is the ultimate testimony to to vertical integration and horizontal they're not mutually exclusive you don't see them that's why I mentioned earlier what I said about why I think there will not be a hundred cloud providers supplying to our customer because integration we just talked about it in the vertical sense we want an HR implication that's completely integrated or in the ERP application that's completely integrated but those applications have to work horizontally as well as vertically so I would actually like my ERP application to talk to my HR application it might be nice if my marketing service applications talk to my ERP applications so I really can't I don't want to spend a munch of money on my IT staff horizontally integrating a hundred clouds I'd like somebody to do that for me and that's why having you know Oracle having the suite that we have in terms of applications platform and infrastructure is so important and that's really the trick balancing both really making that happen it seems to be you've got to do both I mean I'm a firm believer that you really have to have that full suite of capability ok so David lanthum IKOS and she'd want to get a question and so I told him I'd read a question for him he says and this is around the on-prem thing your strategy to create seamless experience between on Prem off principle is obviously your customers can't get there overnight how far along on the completion bar are you and your customers to achieving that vision of integration of allogram and off Prem and off prep seamless experience between seamless experience between off Prem and on-premise solutions today you can have an Oracle job running in the cloud you can have an Oracle job running on-premise with Oracle Enterprise Manager you can manage both jobs seamlessly and move workloads back and forth between on Prem in the cloud and you can do that today if we talk a lot about you know mainframes minis going back and looking at history total cost of ownership is a word that's been used in the computer industry going back to technology is a great way to justify things so let's talk about total cost of ownership but also want to get your take on what does patchwork IT mean to you that notion of patchwork IT in context well you've got a lot of terms you'd like to use I I would stick strategically what I said earlier I I think of much of what happened over the last seven eight years as a lot of do-it-yourself work whether you want to call that whatever term you want to use it the whole view of it for example in this valley if you drove up and down one you would see a slew of companies who individually are trying to sell you an IT organization of a company a piece part be sort of like driving up and down and buying a muffler and then buying a bumper and buying all kinds of stuff and putting it together in your driveway this is really now a shift in the industry away from you know patching together all these systems that are extremely complex and moving to a simpler more fully integrated tested optimized environment and it completely increases the complexity of tossa cost of ownership you said increases the complexity decreases the complexity and decreases total cost of ownership even in the industry through many cycles of innovation does that mean I'm old here at the peak of your career thank you very much people are freaking out some people are winning and happy because they're on one side of the disruption era or the other what does this innovation cycle mean to you right now compare and share your color a personal opinion around what's going on right now in the industry compared to other ones and then and how big seismic differences are there or there is it a big shift little shift compare contrast this much I think it's so exciting I think the most exciting things have in our industry in a long time I think the fact is this industry isn't now in a position and evolving into a position where we can really help customers we can get them out of this very complex world that we the industry have created and and like many industries simplify the way our customers get access to a fabulous intellectual property and make it easier and I think this is an opportunity that if you're if you're in this game if you're not listen let's face it out of colleges we haven't there we haven't had the excitement in the tech industry in years the fact is now with a new game to play this is a tremendous change with tremendous set of winners and and you know frankly there's gonna be the losers involved at the same time that's what makes it exciting and cloud is the better mark security was huge an Oracle OpenWorld I gotta ask you this question this came from a source on our wiki bond team top killer tech announcement Oracle OpenWorld was was security but with the Isis Massacre and the France thing the encryption has become a bad word was debated about four years encryption was a top topic in in the conversation that was a key message at Oracle overall everything could be encrypted beyond on encryption all the time as Larry said you guys are talking about what is the state of security right now with encryption and Oracle does that change your security angle with the products or what's what's going on with security right now so we're talking very much now about enterprise applications and and you know I think there's the cloud of all you know we we talked about this little earlier about the perception that I'm now going to take my data that is is very safe in my data center and on prime which we could debate and I'm now gonna move it to a cloud and therefore I feel vulnerable I feel vulnerable that my data is now in the hands of some other entity and and for us I think one big advantage Oracle has is the fact that that we're very good at data we've managed data since the beginning of the company I mean our first customer was yeah well in the CIA was our first customer they remain a customer today and so security has always been at the core of Oracle's DNA now the one of the reasons we have an encrypted database is four years is because when you encrypt them it the performance of the database actually slows so it's been years of evolution years in terms of Exadata development in terms of all the memory that's now I won't go into all the details of the technology but now we can fully encrypt the database and get incredible performance so what you have no hidden performance no I'm not you ready in great job none none incredible performance and the same theme you have an encrypted database now let me tell you what that means that means that when when a customer's HR data is in our cloud our people that are moving around the customers data don't see the customers data they see frankly gibberish they have files the key to that encrypted data can sit with the customer so when that those files come back across the network the customer can decide when where to use the key to open to open that encrypted file so therefore when you're in the Oracle cloud and I listen I encourage everybody ask our competitors how they deal with this ask ask them what their options are how do they deal with that data is is somebody whose nature or provider are there are there people looking at the customers data as they move files around well we've decided that we think the most important thing we can do is secure that data so let's pretend and by the way I don't think this would ever happen but if somebody actually got access to those there's nothing to have access to it's all encrypted talk about the implications for cloud on a global basis data sovereignty is a huge issue with cloud yeah does this impact at all there's a help it does no it does and so that's it's the reason we've had to one of one of the reasons that we've put data centers in many locations as we have so we do have customers that by law have operate in Germany and in the UK and employee data can't be of a UK employee cannot be in Germany and vice versa well we have we now have the ability because of our data center capability in Germany and our data center in the UK to actually make that capability work and so this this issue of data sovereignty like security is a big issue and you're helping the data sovereignty problem with this Robert yes we've had to address it we've had to address it we've had to embrace it and we've had to help it and it's the same thing with security so now you can have a fully secure capable capability in you know 19 20 different countries to help deal with that with that with that data sovereignty and security issue Barker thanks taking the time here for the cube 101 conversation thank you very much thanks John appreciate it you're watching special one-on-one exclusive conversation with Mark Hurd CEO of Oracle here on the cube on the ground here at Oracle's headquarters you

live from san francisco extracting the signal from the noise it's the cute covering oracle openworld 2015 brought to you by oracle now your host John furrier okay welcome back everyone we are here live in San Francisco on Howard Street for oracle openworld special presentation of the cube so looking ankles flagship program we go out to the events and extract the system noise i'm john furrier founder of SiliconANGLE join my next to gas prakash ramamurthy senior vice president systems and cloud management basically management cloud at oracle and mary johnson Turner research vice president enterprise systems management IDC welcome to the cube thank you so I think take my glasses off to read read the intro there but I want to just get your take on it because we just had to admit on Lavery talk about the plowed and one question I didn't get to ask him was a success mark hurry was talk about the pipeline of customers already in motion on the cloud so I wanted to ask him which is great timing for you guys is how do they integrate it which he talked about but then how do they manage if this is a big issue and he you know ease of use is something that he was generally throwing around there so what is the status of the management cloud because that will be a differentiator like security and to end as a differentiator management certainly will be to me not just table stakes it's really differentiated absolutely i think we're here because we're launching it today actually the management cloud and the interesting thing is this which is today if you look at it whether it's on our cloud or on-premise the rate of innovation is very very robust right i mean you have a mobile phone you're seeing your apps getting refresh twice a week or or even faster than that so what it means is you need the next generation monitoring solution that can monitor all of that so our goal with oracle management flower is to help you manage and monitor your solutions independent of where they are deployed if you deploy it on oracle cloud you little come bake with it to be able to monitor it right from the get-go or if you still have it on premise we will allow you to monitor it and break down those data I low so it is very effective so like you said is very very critical that people look at what their challenges are today in terms of proactive monitoring and troubleshooting to get to the next generation solutions we are providing theory I want to ask you a question on the trends but before that I want to just say that one of things i love about doing the oracle shells are six year the cube here is that for an old-timer like me seen the client-server live the client-server Revolution which is now kind of almost a point in time now it's almost it's over now we're into the cloud cloud modern error it's interesting to see because the same same things keep coming up again it's like the platform's the tool is so I got to ask you the question on what is the key trends that are driving this new application space because if you look at the client-server one of the big things that really was huge was the application market mean that would grant it was siloed up by you know by vendors but now with open source this is a huge application boom right now that's gonna impact IT operations sure yeah I think that if you look at it there's been like you said a couple of generations of technology we had mainframes things changed really slow right then we had client server which was to give business units and developers more control and things started to speed up and change a little more quickly but now in our current and cloud native cloud based development real-time microservice open source-based kind of world the rating pays the change is almost constant you're seeing so many organizations that are moving to continuous delivery modes much of it hosted on public cloud or hybrid private public cloud and they're changing features and functions every day and that creates huge management challenges in terms of just trying to understand is the end-to-end application performing effectively are the end-users getting what they need are the business decision-makers really understanding the impact of those outages or upgrades and it's so it's very complex and then I think it's raising the set of requirements for a particular application performance monitoring and IT operations and log analytics I was Oracle addressing these trends because one of the things that people like tonight I'd like to put things into two camps rip and replace okay or evolutionary development and we're clearly on the McCloud evolutionary because Oracle has it's not gonna be it's not gonna go away right so you can say Oracle native is the cloud strategy to all the Oracle customers but yet now with open source there's net new applications that do you got cha vows to 20 years anniversary so there's new stuff going on IOT is a huge application market right now now I can run an IOT thing in the cloud somewhere else or maybe on Amazon or somewhere else but the other day I have run through my operational assistance assistance of engagements this is a record which is Oracle right so is it an Oracle native cloud and the cloud data mean it how do you see oracle addressing that dynamic are they well positioned well i think oracle has a pretty broad portfolio you know they've had again from a management perspective they had Oracle Enterprise Manager on Prem for many many years i think that the new offerings that are being announced today really are interesting that they extend Oracles of monitoring and analytics to a whole range of cloud-based solutions many of which may not necessarily have been born on the Oracle platforms so I think it's a good recognition of the need for heterogeneity and the need to recognize that it is going to be a very hybrid world for many many years so I think that those are all real you know positive factors and then the new releases and it was talking about the integrated pass perform as a service Enchantix connect those environments but on the management side what are you guys delivering because that's going to be the challenge Prakash to talk about the specific things that you guys are announcing and delivering the customers today so specifically we are delivering three services first one is around application performance monitoring that allows our customers to stay ahead of their customers and their problems and give them the best user experience and monitor that and troubleshoot that and then the second service is around managing your logs and extracting IT operational data and business data out of it today if you look at it the most common thing people do with the log is to archive them and put it away because they don't want that to interrupt their production systems but that has a ton of good information so we have that second service eight exhaust becomes gold exactly so today what happens is they just get put away they get archived and that has real nuggets of business information and IT information being able to collect all of that and use it for your rapid troubleshooting as well so that's the second service the set third one is around IT analytics I call those first two services kind of like the Fitbit for your applications you're constantly getting vitals out of it and white throw that away if you don't have an issue still use it to run some interesting capacity friends and forecasting and all of that so use your real data to forecast your IT health as opposed to using a spreadsheet with some random data that you collected in a point in time so that's what we are announcing three services application performance monitoring log analytics and long term trending and forecasting with IT analytic Isis plunks been doing some log files how they were born people's blunt their data exactly they are trying to kind of get into that how do you guys compared to things like splunk and other tools I know tableau is a new relationship that was announced for the data visualization yeah Larry kind of talked about that yesterday talk about that how people are using that data exhaust give me some examples so the most fundamental difference in what we are doing is this which is we do not differentiate the sources of data and the classes of data when we bring it to the cloud so it could be metric data but with that you can collect based on your monitoring your health of your applications which splunk doesn't do for example and then log data but collect all of that and correlate it together so that in essence what we want to do is this which is the enterprise's today don't have a really a data problem they'd have an insight problem which is they want to be able to just see the right amount of data when they have a problem not all the data when they have a problem depends how you look at the data problem they'll have a Jerry problems you define that as they get all this data so you're plenty of data that's the problem there's no dearth of data problem yeah so that's what I'm i know i know i just kind of making this fun was good comment because i like that because that's that is really not an issue the data is coming yeah and that's you know Brandon whole know the problem you guys have scale now with that but the I don't Linux is a big thing I wanna talk about that because it can be problematic I'm a talk to some customers all the time and they say if someone comes in here and sells me another dashboard I'm gonna shoot myself exactly so it's like because and I said what do you mean by that he goes well there's so many alarms going off I don't know what to pay attention to that's where we start to see machine learning from these tools can you share any color what your great wine Larry I'm it's exactly right which is one of the underpinnings for us is to be able to automatically generate baseline and detect anomalies the last thing I mean our product support our own public cloud and I hear from the guys who run the cloud saying don't just give me another alert tell me what I need to do with an alert because I need to be able to disposition the alert so what we want to do is to understand the normal behavior of your application and only alerts you when there's an anomaly okay so that's part of our machine learning and prioritisation learning some learning algorithms in volved understand some pattern recognition that's right things and only tell you what the outlier is and when and and ask determine what the outlier is that suppose you setting thresholds for us to know it because sometimes things change if you are an e-commerce application or the day before Thanksgiving would have a different pattern than the third week of January right me just that the way the world works so what I want to talk to you about Larry made a comment yes in the key no I just like to take a dig at work day but you know in the way he likes work day because you know it's competition and also highlights from the features that Oracle has but what work days actually losing some share to service now a company in here in Silicon Valley that is an itsm IT service management company and they have been very successful their developer program which actually is starting to nibble away at work shares market share because they're building these developers are building these really focused age are apps that is not flat point it's a tool I know like an offense report for example and works really really well but work day has a plethora of features and they don't always have the best in class features uh-huh so that brings up the whole developer angle what do you and you guys have a story there for developers api's how do you talk to the absolutely share absolutely we have a rest api that the developers can use to collect the data from there into their own dashboards if they want to and also for example you can automatically deploy our agents when you're using our Java cloud service so that monitoring gets baked into it so we have api's for both inputting data and torque loud and extracting data back from the cloud will have api's for you to take the events that we generate into your own event dashboard that you have I'm a developer have a team like I could do some stuff filled my own kind of visualization UI and just have JSON endpoints come right into the absolution absolutely maybe I know she smirked when I said service now you will share some insight it's a this dynamic because this is kind of what's happening on the cloud these tools are popping up yeah well yeah and again I think what we're talking about today is to be able to monitor and analyze and optimize a lot of those different tools and deliver them via cloud platform and I think that we are finding that DevOps organizations are very interested in cloud-based solutions that help them do this better cheaper or faster so I think that you know I think it's an opportunity service now has currently been a pioneer in the delivery of system management as a cloud based model and I think it's interesting that Oracle is actually choosing to enter that market in in a different place yeah I mean actually I just a strength and you got the systems of record a on the right and and really talk from your really you know to Prakash this point really focusing on data because managing effectively managing the performance and operation of applications and complex environments it's all it is a huge data problem and you've got data coming from so many sources so many formats and being able to take that in rapidly to transform it normalize it and make it digestible for humans it's something that is really important in these complex environments and yes I think it's going to be interesting to see I think it's a great try or agree with you I think it's a great strategy by focusing on the data you have a lot of range and I wrote a blog post in 2007 now I'm going way back date is a new developer kit and now that's actually happening you look at data people are playing with the data like a developer place with function calls if you will so we're seeing now is a data rich environment hence the not not a problem of having enough data laying around the problem is how do you use the data you're getting all the products yeah inside is a huge problem and that's only an accelerated by faster performance machines in easy-to-use environment like I'd better analytics because you you want if the user knows what the problem is that they're looking for there are a lot of tools that will help you find it yeah but if you do not know what the problem is and to guide them towards the problem is is where where there's real opportunity and there's a real pain point in these enterprises especially now that you and I don't tolerate a downtime so you never cut anybody slack saying oh the website is slow but they've been innovating I'm gonna give them some slack nobody does that yeah yeah so and because now everything is measurable now for the first time in the history of business everything is measurable that's right and that's like just mind-blowing to me but i think is a huge app i only get your thoughts on the application market because I just see a massive tsunami coming of third-party developers and I'm not sure Oracle can handle that I didn't that's my personal opinion counter that I mean I people want to know can Oracle handle an ecosystem of third-party developers absolutely we have shown that before with with Java and I think you see every one of four services having open api's we are coating third-party developers we will be continuing to support them and I think we'll be able to handle it and we need to do that as a part of this ecosystem yeah I mean it's a platform yeah so you have to enable absolutely and that's the open message exactly all right so gosh what's your advice for the people at oracle openworld here and the people watching let's start with the people here on site if they catch this video when are we putting up some snippets before you even get off the set here so one what session should they attend what's where should I get more information what sessions and breakouts and then presentations they goes I have a keynote tomorrow at 11am that I would love for them to attend and outside of that there are some hands-on labs here that they should go look at the products and people who are remote they should go to cloud.oracle.com / management where we have all the services listed and take a look at it and we are really really going to be putting out a very differentiated solution than what is available in the marketplace and I would love for them to check it out and give us feedback for the folks watching online and customers in general when they squint through all the activities a lot of bombs dropping here at Oracle I mean a lot of announcements this is pretty pretty unprecedented what should they look for what are the if you at the point of someone to 11 point data point within your world that's going to get their attention and have them dive in deep what should they look at if they're having issues with their applications today if they're hearing about their application issues first from their customers and not by themselves they should be looking at our solutions to see how they can get ahead of the customers and that's what that's one precise message they can take back

extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by vmware and its ecosystem sponsors now your host John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back everyone we are here live in San Francisco for vmworld 2015 SiliconANGLE media's the cube star flagship program we go out to the event and extract the students from noise i'm john furry the founders looking angle to of my coast and partner david lonte co-founder Wikibon calm slipping angles research are my next guess is sanjay poonen executive vice president general manager of vmware's end-user computing great to see you again welcome back to the cube John's pleasure to be here but I got to say one thing I'm waiting for the day when you have the tie and dave has the non-tidal I mean seriously you gotta quit that purple tile no I'm just getting a pleasure to be on your show I happy to wear tie but people would know it's phony baloney but I'm happy cape looks good d looks good in the neck but I'm California gotta be chillax a little bit here are you relaxed you feeling good I'm feeling great okay so you get a big body through your anniversary at vm work this month Wow excited to be here at the show so choice so give us the state of the union au CSAP to vmware now two years air wash huge acquisition we saw your an event you had here in San Francisco with all the top customers you have big name box big time player is working with you guys cloud needs a theme that you guys are really driving hard what's this all about where are we right now in your group and user computing is all the rage developer attraction and DevOps kind of connects the dots where are we with this yeah no I think it's been a fabulous two years we've hired a fantastic team I talked about this in my last show your some of the new people that joined us summative on Bob Jules no awasum were some of the people we promoted from within kit Kohlberg Eric Freiburg and then many of the people in the field we really really put together I think the best end-user computing team in the industry bar none it always starts to the people you know my people values where it's all started secondly we really started to innovate on product that differentiates us from the competition and made the bold move and mobile because mobile is the new desktop we joked internally that you could end user computing without a strategy you got that Josh yes yeah you know so that's in essence what we've done to be invisible and taking up the complexities away that's really the key will you yeah absolutely and making yourself relevant to where the world is going in this digitization of the workplace so we see this as a phenomenal opportunity for us to become the de facto brand in a Switzerland set of proposition you've got apple iOS you've got google android about windows microsoft OS 10 VMware's propositions via Switzerland type of company that can manage and secure all of those devices in very transparent fashion then lead and lead with that mobile story right I mean isn't that part of it yeah no absolutely mobile is the new desktop so it does become the key outcome the people are looking for and our proposition that we talked about last year working at the speed of life being able to go all the way from desktop to Tesla many of those things are really starting to resonate now as we talked to CIOs and so you know 10 at 2010 when we first did the cube six years ago Palmer its laid out the whole manifesto and user computing had a lot of disparate parts some of gods and have left explain to the folks out there and clarify the positioning of end-user computing visa V all the turmoil in the marketplace with customers cloud has got obviously hybrid cloud people I try to get their arms around that virtualization a lot of plumbing going on with SD and Isis and growth there a lot of stuff going on underneath your layer that's going to affect you how do you manage that clarify the positioning and then talk about how you respond to the growth that's going to come out of underneath you and the infrastructure yeah I think Paul Maritz had it right down he's one of the visionaries of our time and as he talked in 2010 that was around the time we actually coined the term workspaces the inwards 12 companies had coined the term mobile workspace and now many of those technologies are coming to bear so much of the demos that Paul actually noah was here at the time Steve Herod showed you know I'm actually sort of sitting on the shoulders of many of those giants in terms of driving this so the time has come now where the desktop virtualization market now is less costly and less complex so we've taken cost and complexity out and that's why now we're taking market share from Citrix and other players in that market in the mobile place we weren't moving fast enough we acquire the leader AirWatch in mobile security and we've now created an ecosystem out of that of the leading application providers that are all partnering at a Salesforce workday Adobe SI p everyone in the app space the telco providers players like a TMT vodafone singtel partnering with us and then the security players like palo alto networks of all embraced AirWatch and then we actually created some blue technologies that really bring the desktop and the mobile together like identity management identity as a service is becoming one of those very critical like critical items that's a life blood that ties desktop and mobile together because you're your device now becomes your second factor of authentication right you can use your fingerprint or retina scan all of these now really coming in a mature fashion so we're seeing huge growth out of particularly AirWatch side I think sixty percent last last quarter path to profitability I believe in 2016 no Pat's talking about it Carl's talking about at jonathan's talking about Joe Tucci's talk of everybody's talking about your business so what's driving that growth you just talked about that ecosystem that's got to be a lot of the leverage but maybe help us unpack deck wrote a little bit I think it has been and I'm biased so obviously next to VMware being acquired by emc one of the best acquisitions of modern you know last 18 months in enterprise software we were diligent just the same way EMC a treated VMware to be somewhat separate and independent we kept AirWatch fairly dependent for the first six months and gradually began the integration because there was a motion that Alain de Biron John Marshall had in the context the way they ran their what's that we did not want to break and then over time in the second half of last year in the first half of this year we began to get two parts of VMware that we do well in to play the value side of big deals so we start to participate in elas now where larger conversations with customers the big accounts the volume site are the transaction partners our channel partners 75,000 partners of VMware now have an opportunity to take this mobile solution as a door-opener the CIO but remember now we're bringing together horizon on the desktop site air watching the mobile side with glue types of technologies like identity so the proposition just got like one plus one equals like 111 and that's a huge often you mentioned he'll I mean huge year renewal year in 2016 so that's going to be a tailwind it cloud-based solution around one of the reasons with why I watch it was there with a leader in cloud-based mobile John and Alan were very smart and creating a cloud-based solution not to say that they can't deploy on premise but its cloud first so think Salesforce in a world where everyone else looks like a siebel so we were very astute basically saying we want to look at a way by which the subscription revenue starts to become a flywheel yeah so I want to ask you about business mobility that's a theme that you guys have been big big on your ace application configuration I think it's called or yeah happy creating for the enterprise you had Salesforce box cisco workday and a bunch of other partners showing nsx identity the hard stuff the stuff that you will think about i was there at the event and I want you to compare that visa V some news at hit today with apple and cisco partnering on iOS traffic and prioritizing traffic for iOS apps on cisco hardware yeah which is essentially deep packet inspection looking at the routes and giving them a fast lane if you will that seems to be the trend this consumerization where new Apple examples saying okay differentiate with apple stuff versus Android are the business people thinking about that that way are we looking at nsx innovating under the hood explain the consumerization of business mobility why that's relevant and how hard it is when some things that you guys are doing we coined the term john consumer simple meets and a prize secure and you hear about that more tomorrow in my keynote which i encourage all your viewers to come to tomorrow the clock at nine o'clock there's some very special in huge news hint at and little bit but let's bring that together because who is one of the best at consumers simplicity today Apple okay and we basically are Google and much of what they do too but we took basically a strong partnership with apple and dialed it further and and his apples talked about publicly they have a group of enterprise partners where one among a very few 30 40 50 that they're working with in the EMM space and we investigated meaning enterprise mobile manager okay guy and as we we did that we also then looked at all the apps players that were very key to this mobile cloud ecosystem box you know native people exactly these are folks who are building a cloud-based mobile set of applications and we signed all of them up to this need of integration called app config with enterprise that the device operating system vendors like Apple and Google and us invented now what's happening is you're starting to see that ecosystem getting stronger so actually it's awesome because the apps that were announced today in the cisco apple announcement were WebEx spark the same applications i build laughs and fig yes for so we actually copying you guys well no they actually joining the ecosystem so i think it's awesome when you have an IBM in the ecosystem of vmware in the ecosystem now is cisco on the ecosystem it's amazing there you know there's lots of players we partner with SI PE last you're gonna see us doing more with them so our goal is to ensure that the lead players whether it's an applications world whether it's the networking world what's the security world start plugging into appropriate platform I remember the proposition of vmware though is to be Switzerland so we have to build strong relationships with apple with Google and Microsoft Windows 10 because they're all viable ecosystems in the post-pc world well of course you want to be neutral because you want to have you know rising tide as you said but your announcement also highlighted box docusign was in their AT&T you talk about some cool things I can split outspent reports by having an iphone so the rant random example but the but it highlights a new way of doing things right but i thought i asked her the question those are cloud native companies mean box workday mean they were born in the cloud if you will but what about the enterprises that aren't they have a lot of legacy that's a problem right so it's not easy to be cloud- talk about the challenges there and the opportunities how you guys are addressed i love that word because the each side of that coin is a challenging the opportunity so when we go to traditional enterprises they have client server applications or all browser applications that they want us to real deployment and you'll hear my keynote tomorrow a very key phrase any application on any device so you've got a client-server application and old browser application or native mobile app we can deliver into any device you pick your device you've got a traditional windows laptop at in client a mac OS and Android and iOS or a tesla with running some kind of you know maybe android inside it we can deploy those applications on any device and that requires the combination the technology we have from a horizon and AirWatch so what do we do in those traditional applications we virtualize them we can either virtualize the desktop or the app and deploy them onto at incline we think john the future is thin client computing where you know your glass that you present on is going to be like the glass the Corning makes us projectable and this phone becomes your remote control into your entire life so I love this conversation because there's so much talk in this business Gardner has bimodal IT IDC has the third platform and and but what you just described is doesn't doesn't say old stuff over here and new stuff over there it says extend the client-server apps the 19-year old legacy apps and allow them to participate in this cloud native cloud native doesn't mean throw away the old stuff and start with a blank piece of paper I wonder if you could first of all do you agree with that and what if you could talk about that as a strategy it's a very important strategy because if you are a new company like an uber or Netflix you don't have legacy infrastructure you can start completely new on a cloud native all cloud apps but for the majority of global 2000 companies they have existing applications client-server primarily some running in all browsers ie8 ie9 and you've got to bring those apps to the new world so we see the world moving clearly to mobile and html5 long term but there's still going to be many of those applications 3d applications for example you go to many of our large manufacturing customers they've got jet engine parts or parts of various different manufacturing processes that are still not yet html5 or mobile apps so bringing those old world of apps to a Chromebook or to an iOS device is something we can magically do but for these native mobile apps you want to make it one touch so the benefit of what we had with app configures now with one-touch secured by air watch you can now automatically get access to Salesforce or DocuSign or box this is the best of both worlds for the new apps single touch easy seamless access those apps for the old world world of apps you can seamlessly virtualize them in other words abstract them and then send them over to the ecosystem is critical in all of this and and a lot of times we see this trend toward vertical integration we watch what Oracle's do and you see what Amazon's doing the e così i'm hearing the ecosystem is still vital to your strategy absolutely and the ecosystem takes various different forms the device operating system players the system integrators the security players people like Paul all tanks and then in this world apps players are really really important I talked last year about SI p we had many new apps in that and you know just a small little hint tomorrow at nine o'clock you're going to see a major ecosystem player on stage with us never in the history of the world I don't want to blow the cat out of the bag and I want every one of your viewers gonna be big my lap gonna be huge so you got to come there okay so ecosystem just real quick profitable good economics people making money how's that economics work yeah you know via MERS all about ecosystem right you go to the show floor and vmworld has got thousands including companies that compete with us what you got to do is ensure that you're open and you allow even competitors to integrate with you ok I've got competitors that I compete with in my part of the business they've got to integrate with vsphere vice versa I've got to make sure that I can play in a heterogeneous world with a variety of companies that might compete in the STD sea world and part of the magic of doing this is to ensure that the ecosystem is proliferating but you have some platform player that's what's made vm VMware successful 600,000 greatest infrastructure company balls out I have box again to wrap here so I have a final question then I have a final final question because I need to get two questions in first api api f occasion as a term that we've been kicking around the openstack cloud community coined by google's Craig mcluckie on the cube it's been kicking around but API making your api's available if you overdo it you could cause some problems but you're mentioning interacting with of all these apps your take on that and the second final final question is how do you view DevOps do you care you're looking down at it saying go faster or you're agnostic what are you guys doing specifically around this API ification trend yeah i mean the devops in particular they're both of a related questions let me cover them in sort of a quick sequence everything that we should do as a platform you're a platform if you create a service-oriented architecture that allows others to plug into you so when we talk about app config for the enterprise part of what we did was created an API set with the device operating system players like Apple Google is an open it's an open standard that all EMS can can embrace and now then we natively integrate sales force or workday or essay p into that so the api's are absolutely important in every layer of vmware whether it's the desktop side was the mobile side with its SDDC we live by those principle as a platform company no doubt then as you think about DevOps there's aspects of now the management complexity in the cloud world that needs rethought because this isn't systems management the old way in which the client-server were looked at it DevOps really has a very key way which you can go from tested Evra production where you've got multiple clouds you've got federated clouds and we've got to make sure and this is something that we use internally a lot of our AirWatch solutions that are deployed because they're cloud first have DevOps built into them build an integration built between AirWatch and the management tools of vmware their customers who asked us to integrate in the service now this whole management platform the next generation mobile cloud management platform is going to have DevOps at the key at the heart of it and we think that's a huge opportunity for VMware and for our ecosystem so yes or no question senior management's behind DevOps we are absolutely behind everything that drives in the ecosystem DevOps is one key part of it but there are many other aspects this is one key part where the management platform is going and we're very very committed to making that I know you got to run to your meeting thanks so much Sanjay put in the general man and your EVP of then use a computer big announcement tomorrow watch his keynote tomorrow at 9am I nair on SiliconANGLE TV the cube is going to be covering all the keynotes then keep watching we'll be right back more with live coverage from San Francisco vmworld 2015 this is the cube with John fair and Dave vellante we'll be right back thanks John