(calm music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's live coverage of Snowflake Summit '22 from Las Vegas, Caesars Forum. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante, we're going to unpack some really cool stuff next, in the next 10 minutes with you, Carl Perry joins us, the Director of Product Management at Snowflake, he's here to talk about Snowflake's new Unistore workloads, how it's driving the next phase of innovation, welcome to the program. >> Oh, thank you so much for having me, this is awesome. >> There's a ton of momentum here, I saw the the numbers from fiscal 23Q1, product revenue 394 million, 85% growth, a lot of customers here, the customer growth is incredible as well, talk to us about Unistore, what is it? Unpack it and how have the customers been influential in it's development? >> Yeah, so Unistore is a way for customers to take their transactional workloads, for their enterprise applications and now have them run on or be built on top of Snowflake and now, you have your transactional data, along with all of your historical data, so now you have a single unified platform for doing anything you need to do with your data, whether it's transactional, single row look-ups, we can do that, whether it's the analytical data across again, transactional and historical data in a single query, our customers are super excited about this. >> So, what are Hybrid Tables? Is that just an extension of external tables? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So, Hybrid Tables are a new table-type that we've added to Snowflake and Hybrid Tables are really kind of just like another table with a couple of key differences, so number one is that Hybrid Tables provide fast, fine-grain read and write operations, so when you do something like a select star from customers where customer ID=832, that's going to return extremely fast, but on top of that same data, your transactional data, you can actually perform amazing analytical queries that return extremely fast and that's what Hybrid Tables at their core are. >> So, what does this mean for, so you're bringing that world of transaction and analytics together, what does it mean for customers? Walk us through Carl, an example of- >> Yeah, so it's great, so Adobe is a customer that is looking at using and leveraging Hybrid Tables today, and then more broadly Unistore, and frankly, Adobe has been an amazing customer since they started their journey, just really quickly, they're in phase three, the first phase was customers had data in Snowflake that they wanted to take advantage of with the Adobe Campaign Platform and so what they did is they built a connector basically into and being able to access customer data, and then they started to look at, "Well, this thing's working really well, let's try to leverage Snowflake for all our analytical needs." And so that was kind of phase two, and now phase three is like, look let's go and reimagine what we can do with the Adobe Campaign Platform by having both the transactional and analytical data in the same platform, so that they can really enable their customers to do personalization, ad campaign management, understanding the ethicacy of those things at a scale that they haven't been able to do before. >> Prior to this capability, they would what? Have to go outside of the Snowflake Data Cloud? And do something else? And then come back in? >> Exactly, right? So, they'd have a transactional system where all of the transactional state for what the customer was doing inside Adobe Campaign, setting up all their campaigns and everything, and that would be stored inside a database, right? And then they would need to ensure that, that data was moved over to Snowflake for further analytical purposes, right? You know you imagine the complexity that our customers have to manage every single day, a separate transactional system, an ETL pipeline to keep that data flowing and then Snowflake, right? And with Unistore, we really believe that customers will be able to remove that complexity from their lives and have that single platform that really makes their lives easier. >> I mean, they'll still have a transactional system, will they not? Or do you see a day where they sort of sunset that? >> I mean, there's a set of workloads that are not going to be the best choice today for Unistore and Hybrid Tables, right? And so we know that customers will continue to have their own transactional systems, right? And there's lots of transactional systems that customers rely and have entire applications, and systems built around, right? Right now with Hybrid Tables and Unistore, customers can take those enterprise applications, not consumer-facing applications and move them over to leverage Snowflake, and then really think about re-imagining how they can use their data that's both realtime transactional, as well as all the historical data without the need to move things between systems or use a ton of different services. >> The Adobe example that you just gave seems like, I loved how you described the phases they're in, they're discovering, it's like peeling the onion and just discovering more, and more, but what it sounds like is that Snowflake has enabled Adobe to transform part of it's business, how is Unistore positioned to be so transformational for your customers? >> Well, I mean I think there's a couple of things, so one, they have this like level of complexity today for a set of applications that they can completely stop worrying about, right? No need to maintain that separate transactional system for that again, enterprise application, no need to maintain that ETL pipeline, that's kind of like one step, the next step is, I mean all your data's in Snowflake, so you can start leveraging that data for insight and action immediately, there's no delay in being able to take advantage of that data, right? And then number three, which I think is the most compelling part is because it's part of Snowflake, you getting the benefit of Snowflake's entire ecosystem, whether it's first party capabilities like easy to manage and enforce really powerful governance, and security policies, right? Being able to take data from the market place and actually join it with my realtime transactional data, this is game-changing and then most importantly is the third-party ecosystem of partners who are building all these incredible solutions on top of Snowflake, I can't even begin to imagine what they're going to do with Hybrid Tables in Unistore. >> So, Carl I have to ask you, so I talked to a lot of customers and I talked to a lot of technology companies, explain, so Snowflake obviously was the first to separate compute from storage and you know the cloud, cloud database and then tons of investment came into that space, kind of follow you on, so that's cool, you reached escape velocity, awesome, but a lot of the companies that I talked to are saying, "We're converging transaction and analytics," I think (speaking softly) calls it HTAP or something, they came up with a name, explain the difference between what you're doing and what everybody else is doing, and why, what customer benefits you're delivering? >> Yeah, so I mean I think that's a really great question and to use the term you used HTAP, right? It's a industry understood term, really when people think about HTAP, what that is about is taking your transactional data that you have and enabling you to do fast analytical capabilities on that, and that's great, but there are a couple of problems that historical HTAP solutions have suffered from, so number one, that acceleration, that colander format of data is all in memory, so you're bound by the total amount of memory that you can use to accelerate the queries that you want to, so that's kind of problem one, this is not the approach that Snowflake is taking, most importantly, it's not just about accelerating queries on transactional data, whether it's a single-row lookup or a complex aggregate, it's about being able to leverage that data within the data cloud, right? I don't want to have a separate dataset on a transactional system or an HTAP system that can give me great analytics on transactional data and then I can't use it with all the other data that I have, it's truly about enabling the transformation with the data cloud and completely taking away silos, so that your data, whether it's realtime, whether it's historical, can be treated as a single dataset, this is the key thing that is different about Unistore, you can take the power of the data cloud, all of it, all of the partners, all the solutions and all the capabilities we continue to add, and leverage your data in ways that nobody's thought of possible before. >> Governance is a huge, huge component of that, right? So, in the press release, you have this statement, "As part of the Unistore Snowflake is introducing Hybrid Tables," you explained that, "Which offer fast, single-row operations and allow customers to build transactional business applications directly on Snowflake"- >> Yep. >> That's a little interesting tidbit, so you expect customers are going to build transactional applications inside the data cloud? And somewhat minimize the work that is going to be required by their existing transactional databases, correct? >> Exactly and I think, so let me say a couple things on this, right? So, first of all, there's a class of applications that will be able to just build on top of Hybrid Tables and run on Snowflake directly, for their transactional needs, I think what's super interesting here though is when you again start to talk about all your data, one example that we're going to walk through tomorrow in our talk is being able to do a transaction that updates data in a Hybrid Table and then updates data in a Standard Snowflake Table, and then either being able to atomically commit, or rollback that transaction, this is a transaction that's spanning multiple different table types inside Snowflake and you'll have consistency of either the rollback or the commit, this type of functionality doesn't exist elsewhere and being able to take, and build transactional applications with these capabilities, we think is transformative- >> And that's all going to happen inside the Snowflake Data Cloud, with all the capabilities and it's not like you know what you're doing with Dell and Pure, it's nice, but it's read-only, you can't you know add and delete, and do all that stuff, this is Native? First class citizen inside the database? >> Yep, just like other table types, you'll be able to take on and leverage the power of the data cloud as a normal table that you'd be able to use elsewhere. >> Got to ask you, your energy in the way that you're talking about this is fantastic, the transformation that it's going to be, how central it is to the product innovations that Snowflake is coming out with, what's been the feedback from customers? As there's so many thousands of folks here today, the keynote was standing in your room only, there was an overflow, what are you hearing on the floor here? >> Well, I mean, I think it was funny in the talk when I announced that primary keys are going to be required and enforced, and we got a standing ovation, I was like, "Wow, I didn't expect people to be so excited about primary key enforcement." I mean, what's been amazing both about the private preview and the feedback we're getting there, and then some of the early feedback we're getting from customers is that they want to understand and they're really thinking about like, "Wait, I can use Snowflake for all of this now?" And honestly I think that people are kind of like, "But wait, what would I do if I could have those applications running on Snowflake and not have to worry about multiple systems? Wait, I can combine it with all my historical data and anything that's in the data cloud, like what can I do?" Is the question they're asking and I think that this is the most fascinating thing, customers are going to build things they haven't been able to build before and I'm super excited to see what they do. >> But more specifically, my takeaway is that customers, actually application builders are going to be able to build applications that have data inherent to those apps, I mean John Furrier years ago said, "You know data is the new development kit." And it never happened the data, the data stack if you will separate from the application development stack, you're bringing those two worlds together, so what do you think the implications are of that? >> Well, I mean I think that we're going to dramatically simplify our customers lives, right? A thing that we focus on at Snowflake is relentless customer innovation, so we can make their lives better, so I mean frankly we talk to customers like, "Wait, I can do all this? Wait, are you sure that I'll be able to do this?" And we walk through what we can do, and what we can't do, and they really are like, "Wow, this could just dramatically simplify our lives and wait, what could we do with our data here?" And so, I think with the announcement of Unistore, and also all the Native app stuff that we're announcing today, I think we're really trying to enable customers and app developers there to think about, and being able to leverage Snowflake as their transactional system, the system of source, so I mean, I'm super excited about this, I came to Snowflake to work on this and I'm like, "Can't believe we get to talk about it." >> How do you, how, how? How does this work? What's the secret sauce behind it? Is it architecture or is it? >> Yeah, so I mean I think a big part of it is the architecture that we chose, so you know number one, a key product philosophy that we have at Snowflake is we have one product, we don't have many, we don't put the onus of complexity onto our customers and so building that into Snowflake is actually really hard, so underlying Hybrid Tables, which is the feature that powers Unistore is a row storage engine, a row-based storage engine, right? And then data is asynchronously copied over into a colander format and what this provides, because it's just another table that's deeply integrated with Snowflake is the compiler's completely aware of this, so you can write a query that spans multiple tables and take advantage of it, and we'll take over all the complexity, whether it needs to be a fast response to a single-row lookup, or it needs to aggregate and scan a ton of data, we'll make sure that we choose the right thing and provide you with the best performance that we have- >> You built that intelligence inside of that? >> Completely built in and amazing, but provided in a very simple fashion. >> You said you came to Snowflake to do this? How long ago was that? >> I came here a little over a year and a half. >> Okay, and had they started working on this obviously beforehand, or at least envisioning it, right? >> Yeah, this I mean, this is absolutely incredible, I have been working on this now for a year and a half, some of the team members have been working on it for more and it's incredible to finally be able to talk to customers and everybody about it, and for them to tell us what they're trying to do. I've already talked to a bunch of customers like, "Well wait, I could do this, or this, what about this scenario?" And it's awesome to hear their requirements, right? The thing that's been most amazing and you'll hear it in the talk tomorrow with Adobe who's been a great customer is like, "Customers give us insanely hard requirements." And what I love about this company is not, "Well, you know it's easier to do it this way." It's like, "No, how can we actually make their life easier?" And so, we really focus on doing that with Snowflake. >> And that's one of the things Frank talked about this morning with that mission alignment being critical there. So, it's in private preview now, when can folks expect to get their hands on it? >> Well, we don't have a date right now we're talking about, but you can go signup to be notified of the public preview when we get there, I think it's like snowflake.com/try-unistore, but we'll publish that later and you know if you're interested in the private preview, talk to your account team and we'll see if we can get you in. >> Carl, thank you so much for joining Dave and me in an action-packed 15 minutes, talking about the power of Unistore, what it's going to enable organizations to do and it sounds like you're tapping the surface, there's just so much more innovation that's to come, you're going to have to come back. >> Yes, that sounds awesome, thank you so much. >> Our pleasure. For Carl and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE's live coverage of Snowflake Summit '22 from the show floor in Las Vegas, we're going to be right back with our next guest. (calm music)

(mid tempo digital music) >> Welcome to today's session of theCUBE' presentation of the AWS startup showcase. This is New Breakthroughs and DevOps, Data Analytics, and Cloud Management Tools. The segment is featuring Rockset and we're going to be talking about data analytics. I'm your host, Lisa Martin, and today I'm joined by one of our alumni, Venkat Venkataramani, the co-founder and CEO of Rockset, and Carl Sjogreen, the co-founder and CPO of Seesaw Learning. We're going to be talking about the fast path to real-time analytics at Seesaw. Guys, Thanks so much for joining me today. >> Thanks for having us >> Thank you for having us. >> Carl, let's go ahead and start with you. Give us an overview of Seesaw. >> Yeah, so Seesaw is a platform that brings educators, students, and families together to create engaging and learning experiences. We're really focused on elementary aged students, and have a suite of creative tools and engaging learning activities that helps get their learning and ideas out into the world and share that with family members. >> And this is used by over 10 million teachers and students and family members across 75% of the schools in the US and 150 countries. So you've got a great big global presence. >> Yeah, it's really an honor to serve so many teachers and students and families. >> I can imagine even more so now with the remote learning being such a huge focus for millions and millions across the country. Carl, let's go ahead and get the backstory. Let's talk about data. You've a ton of data on how your product is being used across millions of data points. Talk to me about the data goals that you set prior to using Rockset. >> Yeah, so, as you can imagine with that many users interacting with Seesaw, we have all sorts of information about how the product is being used, which schools, which districts, what those usage patterns look like. And before we started working with Rockset, a lot of data infrastructure was really custom built and cobbled together a bit over the years. We had a bunch of batch jobs processing data, we were using some tools, like Athena, to make that data visible to our internal customers. But we had a very sort disorganized data infrastructure that really as we've grown, we realized was getting in the way of helping our sales and marketing and support and customer success teams, really service our customers in the way that we wanted to past. >> So operationalizing that data to better serve internal users like sales and marketing, as well as your customers. Give me a picture, Carl, of those key technology challenges that you knew you needed to solve. >> Yeah, well, at the simplest level, just understanding, how an individual school or district is using Seesaw, where they're seeing success, where they need help, is a critical question for our customer support teams and frankly for our school and district partners. a lot of what they're asking us for is data about how Seesaw is being used in their school, so that they can help target interventions, They can understand where there is an opportunity to double down on where they are seeing success. >> Now, before you found Rockset, you did consider a more traditional data warehouse approach, but decided against it. Talk to me about the decision why was a traditional data warehouse not the right approach? >> Well, one of the key drivers is that, we are heavy users of DynamoDB. That's our main data store and has been tremendous aid in our scaling. Last year we scaled with the transition to remote learning, most of our metrics by, 10X and Dynamo didn't skip a beat, it was fantastic in that environment. But when we started really thinking about how to build a data infrastructure on top of it, using a sort of traditional data warehouse, a traditional ETL pipeline, it wasn't going to require a fair amount of work for us to really build that out on our own on top of Dynamo. And one of the key advantages of Rockset was that it was basically plug and play for our Dynamo instance. We turned Rockset on, connected it to our DynamoDB and were able within hours to start querying that data in ways that we hadn't before. >> Venkat let's bring you into the conversation. Let's talk about the problems that you're solving for Seesaw and also the complimentary relationship that you have with DynamoDB. >> Definitely, I think, Seesaw, big fan of the product. We have two kids in elementary school that are active users, so it's a pleasure to partner with Seesaw here. If you really think about what they're asking for, what Carl's vision was for their data stack. The way we look at is business observability. They have many customers and they want to make sure that they're doing the right thing and servicing them better. And all of their data is in a very scalable, large scale, no SEQUEL store like DynamoDB. So it makes it very easy for you to build applications, but it's very, very hard to do analytics on it. Rockset had comes with all batteries included, including real-time data connectors, with Amazon DynamoDB. And so literally you can just point Rockset at any of your Dynamo tables, even though it's a no SEQUEL store, Rockset will in real time replicate the data and automatically convert them into fast SEQUEL tables for you to do analytics on. And so within one to two seconds of data getting modified or new data arriving in DynamoDB from your application, within one to two seconds, it's available for query processing in Rockset with full feature SEQUEL. And not just that, I think another very important aspect that was very important for Seesaw is not just that they wanted me to do batch analytics. They wanted their analytics to be interactive because a lot of the time we just say something is wrong. It's good to know that, but oftentimes you have a lot more followup questions. Why is it wrong? When did it go wrong? Is it a particular release that we did? Is it something specific to the school district? Are they trying to use some part of the product more than other parts of the product and struggling with it? Or anything like that. It's really, I think it comes down to Seesaw's and Carl's vision of what that data stack should serve and how we can use that to better serve the customers. And Rockset's indexing technology, and whatnot allows you to not only get real-time in terms of data freshness, but also the interactivity that comes in ad-hoc drilling down and slicing and dicing kind of analytics that is just our bread and butter . And so that is really how I see not only us partnering with Seesaw and allowing them to get the business observerbility they care about, but also compliment Dynamo transactional databases that are massively scalable, born in the cloud, like DynamoDB. >> Carl talked to me about that complimentary relationship that Venkat just walked us through and how that is really critical to what you're trying to deliver at Seesaw. >> Yeah, well, just to reiterate what Venkat said, I think we have so much data that any question you ask about it, immediately leads to five other questions about it. We have a very seasonal business as one example. Obviously in the summertime when kids aren't in school, we have very different usage patterns, then during this time right now is our critical back to school season versus a steady state, maybe in the middle of the school year. And so really understanding how data is trending over time, how it compares year over year, what might be driving those things, is something that frankly we just haven't had the tools to really dig into. There's a lot about that, that we are still beginning to understand and dig into more. And so this iterative exploration of data is incredibly powerful to expose to our product team, our sales and marketing teams to really understand where Seesaw's working and where we still have work do with our customers. And that's so critical to us doing a good job for schools in districts. >> And how long have you been using Rockset, Carl? >> It's about six months now, maybe a little bit longer. >> Okay, so during the pandemic. So talk to me a little bit about in the last 18 months, where we saw the massive overnight transition to remote learning and there's still a lot of places that are in that or a hybrid environment. How critical was it to have Rockset to fuel real-time analytics interactivity, particularly in a very challenging last 18 month time period? >> The last 18 months have been hard for everyone, but I think have hit teachers and schools maybe harder than anyone, they have been struggling with. And then, overnight transition to remote learning challenges of returning to the classroom hybrid learning, teachers and schools are being asked to stretch in ways they have never been stretched before. And so, our real focus last year was in doing whatever we could to help them manage those transitions. And data around student attendance in a remote learning situation, data around which kids were completing lessons and which kids weren't, was really critical data to provide to our customers. And a lot of our data infrastructure had to be built out to support answering those questions in this really crazy time for schools. >> I want to talk about the data set, but I'd like to go back to Venkat 'cause what's interesting about this story is Seesaw is a customer of Rockset, Venkat, is a customer of Seesaw. Talk to me Venkat about how this has been helpful in the remote learning that your kids have been going through the last year and a half. >> Absolutely. I have two sons, nine and ten year olds, and they are in fourth and fifth grade now. And I still remember when I told them that Seesaw is considering using Rockset for the analytics, they were thrilled, they were overjoyed because finally they understood what I do for a living. (chuckling) And so that was really amazing. I think, it was a fantastic dual because for the first time I actually understood what kids do at school. I think every week at the end of the week, we would use Seesaw to just go look at, "Hey, well, let's see what you did last week." And we would see not only what the prompts and what the children were doing in the classroom, but also the comments from the educators, and then they comment back. And then we were like, "Hey, this is not how you speak to an educators." So it was really amazing to actually go through that, and so we are very, very big fans of the product, we really look forward to using it, whether it is remote learning or not, we try to use it as a family, me, my wife and the kids, as much as possible. And it's a very constant topic of conversation, every week when we are working with the kids and seeing how we can help them. >> So from an observability perspective, it sounds like it's giving parents and teachers that visibility that really without it, you don't get. >> That's absolutely correct . I think the product itself is about making connections, giving people more visibility into things that are constantly happening, but you're not in the know. Like, before Seesaw, I used to ask the kids, "How was school today? "what happened in the class?" And they'll say, "It was okay." It would be a very short answer, it wouldn't really have the depth that we are able to get from Seesaw. So, absolutely. And so it's only right that, that level of observability and that level of... Is also available for their business teams, the support teams so that they can also service all the organizations that Seesaw's working with, not only the parents and the educators and the students that are actually using the product. >> Carl, let's talk about that data stack And then I'm going to open the can on some of those impacts that it's making to your internal folks. We talked about DynamoDB, but give me an visual audio, visual picture of the data stack. >> Yeah. So, we use DynamoDB as our database of record. We're now in the process of centralizing all of our analytics into Rockset. So that rather than having different BaaS jobs in different systems, querying that data in different ways, trying to really set Rockset up as the source of truth for analytics on top of Dynamo. And then on top of Rockset, exposing that data, both to internal customers for that interactive iterative SEQUEL style queries, but also bridging that data into the other systems our business users use. So Salesforce, for example, is a big internal tool and have that data now piped into Salesforce so that a sales rep can run a report on a prospect to reach out to, or a customer that needs help getting started with Seesaw. And it's all plumbed through the Rockset infrastructure. >> From an outcome standpoint, So I mentioned sales and marketing getting that visibility, being able to act on real time data, how has it impacted sales in the last year and a half? six months rather since , it's now since months using it. >> Well, I don't know if I can draw a direct line between those things, but it's been a very busy year for Seesaw, as schools have transitioned to remote learning. And our business is really largely driven by teachers discovering our free product, finding it valuable in their classroom, and then asking their school or district leadership to purchase a school wide subscription. It's a very bottoms up sales motion. And so data on where teachers are starting to use Seesaw is the key input into our sales and marketing discussions with schools and districts. And so understanding that data quickly in real time is a key part of our sales strategy and a key part of how we grow at Seesaw over time. >> And it sounds like Rockset is empowering those users, the sales and marketing folks to really fine tune their interactions with existing customers, prospective customers. And I imagine you on the product side in terms of tuning the product. What are some of the things Carl that you've learned in the last six months that have helped you make better decisions on what you want Seesaw to deliver in the future? >> Well, one of the things that I think has been really interesting is how usage patterns have changed between the classroom and remote learning. We saw per student usage of Seesaw increased dramatically over the past year, and really understanding what that means for how the product needs to evolve to better meet teacher needs, to help organize that information, since it's now a lot more of it, really helped motivate our product roadmap over the last year. We launched a new progress dashboard that helps teachers get an added glance view of what's happening in their classroom. That was really in direct response to the changing usage patterns, that we were able to understand with better insights into data. >> And those insights allow you to pivot and iterate on the product. Venkat I want to just go back to the AWS relationship for a second. You both talked about the complimentary nature of Rockset and DynamoDB. Here we are at the AWS Startup Showcase. Venkat just give the audience a little overview of the partnership that you guys have with AWS. >> Rockset fully runs on AWS, so we are customer of AWS. We are also a partner. There are lots of amazing cloud data products that AWS has, including DynamoDB or AWS Kinesis. And so one with which we have built in integrations. So if you're managing data in AWS, we compliment and we can provide, very, very fast interactive real-time analytics on all of your datasets. So the partnership has been wonderful, we're very excited to be in the Startup Showcase. And so I hope this continuous for years to come. >> Let's talk about the synergies between a Rockset and Seesaw for a second. I know we talked about the huge value of real time analytics, especially in today's world, where we've learned many things in the last year and a half, including that real-time analytics is no longer a nice to have for a lot of industries, 'cause I think Carl as you said, if you can't get access to the data, then there's questions we can't ask. Or we can't iterate on operations, if we wait seconds for every query to load, then there's questions we can't ask. Talk to me Venkat, about how Rockset is benefiting from what you're learning from Seesaw's usage of the technology? >> Absolutely. I mean, if you go to the first part of the question on why do businesses really go after real time. What is the drive here? You might have heard the phrase, the world is going from batch to real-time. What does it really mean? What's the driving factor there? Our take on it is, I think it's about accelerating growth. Seesaw's product being amazing and it'll continue to grow, it'll continue to be a very, very important product in the world. With or without Rockset, that will be true. The way we look at once they have real-time business observability, is that inherent growth that they have, they can reach more people, they can put their product in the hands of more and more people, they can iterate faster. And at the end of the day, it is really about having this very interesting platform, very interesting architecture to really make a lot more data driven decisions and iterate much more quickly. And so in batch analytics, if you were able to make, let's say five decisions a quarter, in real time analytics you can make five decisions a day. So that's how we look at it. So that is really, I think, what is the underpinnings of why the world is going from batch to real time. And what have we learned from having a Seesaw as a customer? I think Seesaw has probably one of the largest DynamoDB installations that we have looked at. I think, we're talking about billions and billions of records, even though they have tens of millions of active users. And so I think it has been an incredible partnership working with them closely, and they have had a tremendous amount of input on our product roadmap and some of that like role-based access control and other things have already being a part of the product, thanks to the continuous feedback we get from their team. So we're delighted about this partnership and I am sure there's more input that they have, that we cannot wait to incorporate in our roadmap. >> I imagine Venkat as well, you as the parent user and your kids, you probably have some input that goes to the Seesaw side. So this seems like a very synergistic relationship. Carl, a couple more questions for you. I'd love to know how in this... Here we are kind of back to school timeframe, We've got a lot of students coming back, they're still remote learning. What are some of the things that you're excited about for this next school year that do you think Rockset is really going to fuel or power for Seesaw? >> Yeah, well, I think schools are navigating yet another transition now, from a world of remote learning to a world of back to the classroom. But back to the classroom feels very different than it does at any other back to school timeframe. Many of our users are in first or second grade. We serve early elementary age ranges and some of those students have never been in a classroom before. They are entering second grade and never having been at school. And that's hard. That's a hard transition for teachers in schools to make. And so as a partner to those schools, we want to do everything we can to help them manage that transition, in general and with Seesaw in particular. And the more we can understand how they're using Seesaw, where they're struggling with Seesaw, as part of that transition, the more we can be a good partner to them and help them really get the most value out of Seesaw, in this new world that we're living in, which is sort of like normal, and in many ways not. We are still not back to normal as far as schools are concerned. >> I'm sure though, the partnership that you provide to the teachers and the students can be a game changer in these, and still navigating some very uncertain times. Carl, last question for you. I want you to point folks to where they can go to learn more about Seesaw, and how for all those parents watching, they might be able to use this with their families. >> Yeah, well, seesaw.me is our website, and you can go to seesaw.me and learn more about Seesaw, and if any of this sounds interesting, ask your teacher, if they're not using Seesaw, to give it a look. >> Seesaw.me, excellent. Venkat, same question for you. Where do you want folks to go to learn more about Rockset and its capabilities? >> Rockset.com is our website. There is a free trial for... $300 worth of free trial credits. It's a self service platform, you don't need to talk to anybody, all the pricing and everything is out there. So, if real-time analytics and modernizing your data stack is on your roadmap, go give it a spin. >> Excellent guys. Thanks so much for joining me today, talking about real-time analytics, how it's really empowering both the data companies and the users to be able to navigate in challenging waters. Venkat, thank you, Carl, thank you for joining us. >> Thanks everyone. >> Thanks Lisa. >> For my guests, this has been our coverage of the AWS Startup Showcase, New Breakthroughs in DevOps, Data Analytics and Cloud Management Tools. I am Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (mid tempo music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of Postgres vision 2021 brought to you by EDB. >> Welcome back to Postgres Vision 21. My name is Dave Vellante. We're thrilled to welcome Carl Olofsen to theCUBE. Carl is a research vice president at IDC focused on data management. The long-time database analyst is the technologist and market observer. Carl, good to see you again. >> Thanks Dave. Glad to be here. >> All right. Let's let's get into it. Let's talk about, let's go right to the, to the source the open source database space. You know, how, what changes have you seen over the last couple of years in that marketplace? >> Well, this is a dynamic area and it's continuing to evolve. When we first saw the initial open source products like mysQl and PostgreSQL on the early days they were very limited in terms of functionality. They were espoused largely by sort of true believers. You know, people who said everything should be open source. And we saw that mainly they were being used for what I would call rather prosaic database applications. But as time has gone by they both of these products improve. Now there's one key difference, of course, which is a mySQL is company owned open source. So the IP belongs to Oracle corporation. Whereas PostgreSQL is community open source, which means that the IP belongs to the PostgreSQL community. And that can have a big difference in terms of things like licensing and so forth, which really matters now that we're coming into the cloud space because as open-source products moving into the cloud space the revenue model is based on subscriptions. And of course they are always based on subscription to open source cause you don't charge for the license. So what you charge for its support, but in the cloud what you can do is you can set up a database service, excuse me, a database service and then you charge for that service. And if it's open source or it's not open source that actually doesn't matter to the user. If you see what that I mean because they still are paying a subscription fee for a service and they get the service. The main difference between the two types is that if you're a commercial provider of PostgreSQL like enterprise DB, you don't have control over where it goes and you don't have control over the IP and how people use it in different ways. Whereas Oracle owns mySQL so they have a lot more control and they can do things to it on their own. They don't have to consult the community. Now there's also, non-relational open source including MongoDB. And as you may be aware, MongoDB has changed their license. So that it's not possible for third party to offer Mongo DB as a complete managed database service without paying a license fee to MongoDB for that. And that's because they own the IP too. And we're going to see a lot more of this sort of thing. I have conversations with open source all the time and they are getting a little concerned that it has become possible for somebody to simply take their technology, make a lot of money off that. And no money goes back to the community. No money goes back to the IRS. It's a company it's just stays with the supplier. So I think, you know it'll be interesting to see how all this is over time. >> So you're suggesting that the Postgres model then is, is I guess I'll use the word cleaner. And so that feels like it's a it's a benefit or is it a two-edged sword kind of thing? I mean, you were saying before, you know a company controls the IP so they could do things without having to go to the community. So maybe they can do things faster. But at the other hand like you said, you get handcuffed. You think you're going to be able to get a, you know a managed service, but then all of a sudden you're not and the rules change midstream saying it, am I correct? That Postgres, the model is cleaner for the customer? >> Well, you know, I mean, a lot of my friends who are in the open source community don't even consider company owned open source to be true open source because the IP is controlled by a company, not by a community. >> Dave: Right >> So from that perspective certainly Postgres SQL is considered, I don't know if you want to use the word cleaner or more pure or something along those lines, but also because of that the nature of community open source it can be used in many different ways. And so we see Postgres popping up all over the place sometimes partially and sometimes altogether, in other words, a service, a cloud service, we'll take a piece of Postgres and stick it on top of their own technology and offer it. And the reason they do that is they know there are a lot of developers out there who already know how to code for Postgres. So they are immediately first-class users of the service that they're offering. >> So, talk a little bit more about what you're seeing. You just mentioned a lot of different use cases. That's interesting. I didn't realize that was, that was happening. The, what are you seeing in terms of adoption in let's say the last 18, 24 months specific to Postgres? >> Yeah, we're seeing a fair amount of adoption in especially in the middle market. And of course there is rapid adoption in the tech sector. Now, why would that be? Well it's because they have armies of technologists. Who know how to program this stuff. You know, when you, you know, a lot of them will use PostgreSQL without a contract without a support contract, they'll just support themselves. And they can do that because they have the technicians who are capable of doing it. Most regular businesses can't do that. They don't have the staff so they need that support contract. And so that's where a company like enterpriseDB comes. I mentioned them only because they're the leading supplier Postgres to all their other suppliers. >> I was talking to Josh Burgers, red hat and he was, you know, he had just come off a Cubacon and he was explaining kind of what's happening in that community. Big focus of course on security and the whole, you know, so-called shift left. We were having a good discussion about, you know when does it make sense to use, you know Postgres in a container environment should you use Postgres and Kubernetes and he sort of suggested that things have rapidly evolved. There's still, you know, considerations but what are you seeing in terms of the adoption of microservices architectures containers, generally Kubernetes how has that affected the use of things like postsgres? >> So those are all different things or need to be kind of custody. >> Pick your favorite. >> They're related then. So microservices, the microservice concept is that you take an application break it up into little pieces and each one becomes a microservice that's invoked through an API. And then you have this whole structure API system that you use to drive the application and they run. They typically, they run in containers usually Kubernetes govern containers but the reason you do this and this is basically a efficiency because especially in the cloud, you want only to pay for what you use. So when you're running a microservice based application. Applications have lots of little pieces when something needs to be done, microservice fires up it does the thing that needs to be done. It goes away. You only pay for that fraction of a second that the microservice is running. Whereas in a conventional application you load this big heavyweight application. It does stop. It sets some weights with things and does more stuff and sits and waits for things. And you pay for compute for that entire period. So it's much more cost effective to use a microservices application. The thing is that microservice, the concept of microservices is based on the idea that the code is stateless but database code isn't stateless cause it has its attraction to the database which is the ultimate kind of like stateful environment right? So it's a tricky business. Most database technologies that are claimed to be container-based actually run in containers the way they run in servers. In other words, they're not microservice-based they do run in containers. And the reason they're doing that is for portability so that you can deploy them anywhere and you can move them around. But you know deploying a microservice based database is, well, it's it's a big technical project. I mean, that is hard to do. >> Right and so talk about, I mean again we're talking to Josh it was clear that that Kubernetes has evolved, you know quite rapidly at the same time there were cautions. In other words, he would say I think suggested things like, you know, there were known at one point, there were known, you know flaws and known bugs that ship the code that's been been remediated or moderated in terms of that practice but still there's there's considerations just in terms of the frequency of updates. I think he gave the example of when was the last time you know, JVM got, you know, overhauled. And so what kind of considerations should customers think about when considering them, they want the Kubernetes they want the flexibility and the agility but at the same time, if they're going to put it production, they've got to be careful, right? >> Yeah, I think you need to make sure you're using you're using functions that are well-established, you know you wouldn't want to put something into production that's new. They say, oh, here's a new, here's a new operation. Let's try that. And then, you know, you get in trouble. So you want to deal conservative that way you know, Kubernetes is open-source so and the updates and the testing and all that follows a rather slow formal process, you know from the time that the submission comes in to the time that it goes out, whereas you mentioned JVMs JV, but it was owned by Oracle. And so JVMs are managed like products. Now there's a whole sort of legal thing I don't want to get into it as to whether it's legal. They claim it's not libero third parties to build JVMs without paying a licensing. I don't want to talk about that, but it's based on a very state that has a very stable base, you know whereas this area of Kubernetes and govern containers is still rapidly evolving but this is like any technology, right? I mean, when you, if you're going to commit your enterprise to functions that run on an emerging technology then you are accepting some risk. You know, that there's no question about it. >> So we talked about the cloud earlier and the whole trend toward managed services. I mean, how does that specifically apply to Postgres? You can kind of imagine like a sidecar, a little bit of Postgres mixed in with, you know, other services. So what do you see and what do you, what's your telescope say in terms of the the Postgres adoption cloud? How do you see that progressing? >> I think there's a lot of potential. There's a lot of potential there. I think we are nowhere near the option that it should be able to achieve. I say that because for one thing, even though we analyze the future at IDC, that doesn't mean we actually know the future. So I can't say what its adoption will be but I can say that there's a lot of potential there. There's a tremendous number of Postgres developers out there. So there's a huge potential for adoption. And especially in cloud adoption, the main thing that would help that is independent. And I know that enterpriseDB has one independent a managed cloud service. So I think they do. >> Yeah I think so. >> But you know, why do I say that? I say that because alternatives these days there are some small companies that maybe they'll survive and maybe they won't, but that, you know, do you want to get involved with them or the cloud platform providers, but if you use their Postgres you're locked into that cloud platform. You know, if you use Amazon, go press on RDS, right? You're not, you become quickly locked in because you're starting using all the AWS tools that surround it to build and manage your application. And then you can't move. If you see what I mean. >> Dave: Yeah . >> They have have an RDS labor Aurora, and this is actually one of the things that it's really just a thin layer of Postgres interaction code underneath Aurora is their own product. so that's an even deeper level of commitment. >> So what has to happen for, so obviously cloud, you know, big trend. So the Postgres community then adopts the code base for the cloud. Obviously EDB has, you know hundreds of developers contributing to that, but so what does that mean to be able to run in the cloud? Is that making it cloud native? Is that extensions? Is it, you know, what technically has to occur and what has occurred and how mature is it? >> Well, so smaller user organizations are able to migrate fairly quickly cloud because most of their applications are you know, commercially purchased. They're like factories applications. When they move to the cloud, they get the SAS one and often the SAS equivalent runs on Postgres. So that's just fine. Larger enterprises are a real mess. If you've ever been in a large enterprise data center you know what I'm talking about? It's just, there's just servers and storage everywhere. There's, all these applications, databases connections. They are not moving to the cloud anytime soon. But what they are doing is setting up things like private cloud environments and applying in there. And this is a place where if you're thinking about moving to something like a Postgres you know most of these enterprises use the big commercial databases. Oracle SQLserver DB two and so forth. If you're thinking of moving from that to a a PostgreSQL development say, then the smart thing to do would be first to do all your work in the private cloud where you'd have complete control over the environment. It also makes sense still to have a commercial support contract from a vendor that you trust, because I've said this again, unless you are, you know, Cisco or somebody, you know, some super tech company that's got all the technicians you need to do the work. You really don't want to take on that level of risk. If you see that, I mean. Another advantage to working with a supplier, a support supplier, especially if you have a close, intimate relationship is they will speed your security patches on a regular basis which is really important these days, because data security is as you know, a growing concern all over the place. >> So let's stay on the skillsets for a minute. Where do you see the gaps within enterprises? What kind of expertise you mentioned, you know support contracts, what are the types of things that a customer should look for in terms of the the expertise to apply to supporting Postgres databases? >> Well, obviously you want them to do the basics that any software company does, right? You want them to provide you with regular updates and binary form that you can load and, you know test and run. You want to have the you know, 24 hour hotline you know, telephone support, all that kind of thing. I think it's also important to have a solid ability on the part of the vendor that you're working with to provide you with advice and counseling as you, especially, if you're migrating from another technology, help your people convert from what they were using to what they're going to be using. So those are all aspects that I would look for in a vendor for supporting a product like PostgreSQL. >> When you think about the migration to the cloud, you know of course Amazon talks a lot about cloud migration. They have a lot of tooling associated with that. >> Carl: Right. >> But when you step back and look at it it did to a point earlier, I mean a lot of the hardcore mission, critical stuff isn't going to move it, hasn't moved, but a lot of the fat middle, you know, is, are good candidates for it. >> Carl: Right. >> How do you think about that? And how do you look at that? I mean, obviously Oracle is trying to shove everything into OCI and they're, you know, they're all in because they realized that could make a lot of money doing that. But what do you, what are the sort of parameters that we should think about when considering that kind of migration, moving a legacy database into the cloud? >> Well, it has to be done piecemeal. You're not going to be able to do it all at once. You know, if you have hundreds of applications, you're not just you don't even want to, you know, it's a good time to take you into it. And what you've got running, ask yourself are these applications really serving the business interests today and will they in the future or is this a good time to maybe consider something else? Even if you have a packaged application, there might be one that is more aligned with your future goals. So it's important to do that. Look at your data integration, try to simplify it. You know, most data integration that most companies has done piecemeal project by project. They don't reference each other. So you have this chaos of ETL jobs and transformation rules and things like that that are just, you know, even difficult to manage. Now, just forget about any kind of migration or transformation considerations, just trying to run it now is becoming increasingly difficult. You know, maybe you want to change your strategy for doing data integration. Maybe you want to consolidate you want to put more data in one database. I'm not an advocate of the idea that you can put all application data in one database by the way, we know from bitter experience that doesn't work, but we can be rational about the kinds of databases that we use and how they sit together. >> Well, I mean, you've been following this for a long time and you saw the sort of rise and fall of the big data meme. And you know, this idea that you can shove everything into a single place, have a single version of the truth. It's like, it's just never seemed to happen. >> Carl: Right. >> So, you know, Postgres has been around a long time. It's evolved. I mean, I remember when, you know, VMware's ascendancy and people are like, okay, should I, you know should I virtualize my Postgres database is your, you know similar conversations that we were having earlier about Kubernetes. You've seen the move to the cloud. We're going to have this conversation about the edge at some point in time. So what's your outlook for Postgres, the Postgres community and, you know database market overall? >> Well, I really think the future for database growth is in the cloud. That's what all the data we're looking at and the case that's what our recent surveys indicate. As I said before, the rate of change depends on the size of the enterprise. Smaller advices are moving rapidly, large enterprises much more slowly and cautiously for the very simple reason that it's a very complex proposition. And also in some cases, they're wondering if they can move certain data or will they be violating your some sort of regulatory constraint or contractual issue. So they need to deal with those things too. That's why the private cloud is the perfect place to get started and get technology all lined up storing your data center is still under your control no legal issues there, but you can start, you know converting your applications to micro-service architected applications running in containers. You can start replacing your database servers with ones that can run in a container environment and maybe in the future, maybe hope that in the future, some of those will actually also be able to run as microservices. I don't think it's impossible but it just involves programming the database server in a very different way than we've done in the past. But you do those things. You can do those things under your own control over time in your own dataset. And then you reach a point where you want to take the elements of your application environment and say, what pieces of this, can I move to the cloud without creating disruption and issues regarding things like data egress and latency from cloud to data center and that kind of thing. And prepare for that. And then you're doing the step wise and then you start converting in a stepwise manner. I think ultimately it just makes so much sense to be in the cloud that the cloud vendors have economies of scale. They can deploy large numbers of servers and storage systems to satisfy the needs of large numbers of customers and create, you know great considerable savings. Some of which of course becomes their profit which is what's due to them. And some of that comes back to the users. So that's what I expect. We're going to see. And oh gosh, I would say that starting from about three years from now the larger enterprises start making their move and then you'll really start to see changes in the numbers in terms of cloud and cloud revenue. >> Great stuff, Carl, thank you for that. So any cool research you're working on lately, how you're spending your your work time, anything you want to plug? >> Well, working a lot on just as these questions, you know cloud migration is a hot topic, another which is really sort of off the subject. And what we've been talking about is graph database which I've been doing a fair amount of research into. I think that's going to be really important in the coming years and really, you know working with my colleagues in a project called the future of intelligence which looks at all the different related elements not just database, data integration but artificial intelligence, data communications and so on and so forth and how they come together to create a more intelligent enterprise. And that's a major initiative that I see. It's one of the, we call the future of initiatives. >> Great, Carls, thanks so much for coming back to theCUBE. It's great to have you, man. I appreciate it. >> Well, I enjoyed it. Now I have to do it again sometime. >> All right you got it. All right thank you everybody for watching theCUBEs. Continuous coverage of Postgres vision 21. This is Dave Vellante keep it right there. (upbeat music)

>>Live from Orlando, Florida. It's the cube covering Microsoft ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity. >>Good morning cube land and welcome back to the cubes live coverage of Microsoft ignite here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We are joined by Carl holes, our, he is the supervisor of infrastructure Shumaker loop and Kendrick based in Toledo, Ohio. Thank you so much for coming on the show tomorrow. So tell our viewers first of all a little bit about uh, she make her loop. So Schulich >>is a top 200 law firm in the U S we have seven locations across the country, most of the East coast and we serve as anything from litigation to environmental to legal and things like that. >>Okay. So you and you are the supervisor of infrastructure. >>Yeah, my role there is to make sure anything with plugs and switches keeps working, so. >>All right. And so Carl, tell us a little bit about, you said you've got multiple occasions once that span and to the lawyers tell you everything and how it must be. >>The lawyers definitely have a say in the way things work. We have most of the locations in Florida and the Carolinas and two in Ohio. Okay. >>Um, and you know, with the locations, you know, what are some of the business drivers that you're going on? When I talked to most companies, you know, there's the constant change. Is there M and a happening? Is it growth? What are some of the drivers of your business? >>Oh, for sure it's growth. You know, obviously as time goes on there's more and more cases, more and more legal things have to happen. Lawyers love documents, so we have to store documents, index amend, make sure that they're always available for their use. And then of course, as part of that too, there's, there's legals holds on things, you know, stuff the case that stretches over, you know, five, 10 years. We need to keep that data safe. Yeah. So I would, >>I think that the word compliance is one that you know, all too well. Exactly. Bring us in a little bit to them. Side is, so some of those, you know, what do you have to be concerned about? You know, how many petabytes exabytes of things in years >>I'll have to that. It depends on the kind of case it is and what it involves. Some, some cases, as long as you have the data in some form you're okay. Other cases the data can't change. So we have systems that might be a little older because they, it has to be as it was when we actually had the case come into us. Okay. That's challenging too. So data, when we talked to so many companies, it's, you know, how can I monetize data? How can I do that? Data has to be a slightly different role inside your organization. How, how's that thought of, >> we have to be careful obviously because conflict of interest, you know, we so have to keep data separate in some instances and internally, not everybody can see the same data because there is issues with privacy or hippo or you know, or so on and so forth that they can't see this stuff. So for us, we need to keep it safe more than monetize it. >>So as you said, the lawyers have a, have a big say in how things empower things happen. So how would you describe the approach and mindset of, of Chyulu toward technology and toward cloud-based and new kinds of, to, to store >>and keep data safe? We, our goal is to make sure things are always online. Um, so we kind of tend toward the more, the more tried and true methods of doing things, the bleeding edge doesn't always work for us. So, but we also can't afford to, to lag behind. So we need to find that balance in between somehow to keep things moving, but the same time make sure that things don't go down or offline fraternities. So protecting and backing up your data across a hybrid environment isn't easy. So Ty, and I know you, you are on a panel here at ignite about, uh, backup disasters and how to avoid them. So I'd love to have you talk a little bit about, about how you think about this and then, and how you interview vendors, vendors and decide what's the right solution for your show. >> Every different, I guess a practice inside of law firm has different ways of getting data. They like their programs this way or that way and they're all different. So the hard part for us is how to keep that data always available to them in different systems. So whatever we do has to encompass making sure these all, all these things work, you know, kind of as, as one. So we've used Cohesity to do backups, we've used Xero to do dr mixer always online. >>Okay. And how long have you been using those solutions? I, how did you reach the kind of those decisions? >>Those were brought in? Just as I joined the firm about a year and a half ago. Um, our vendor who we're using is very tight with Cohesity and Xero and said that might be a good idea. And the more I use them, the more I agree with that. And they're all good. >>So you're saying it's your, your CI, your channel partner channel that does, that. They're trusted, they provide your gear, advise you on the software. Because let's be honest, as time goes on, you can't know everything. So you need to somebody that you can trust to bring in and say, Hey, do it this way. Well, yeah, Carl, I mean, I don't know if you caught the day one keynote, but even those of us that watch the industry in DOE, it's, there's no way any of us could keep up at though. So that, that, that's really important. How do you make sure that you know that that's a trusted advisor? You know, what's, what's the kind of the give and take between them? >>I think a lot of that comes down to a gut feeling, right? I you, if you feel slimy when you meet somebody, you know, they don't have your best interests in mind and that's what you want. Not my best interest, but the interest of the firm and of the company. So once you have established those guidelines, you usually can trust what they're saying. And I guess every time you meet them too, you have to reevaluate is this still a good fit? >> So when you comes to backup and recovery, I'd love to hear more about this panel and how you and your colleagues came to conclusions about how here's some, here's some big ones and here's how you can avoid them. So I think for us it was just what worked and what didn't work. You know, we all, all three of us use this stuff day to day. So we found the pitfalls, we found what you should and shouldn't do. And when we share that with the, with the community, we get some good feedback on that. >>So Carl, a year and a half there, any, any specific advice that you'd share? People as to what you've learned? Say I hired pitfalls in there as you know, was it a configuration issue or something went wrong because we know the best intentions and best products out there, so you know, things can get in the way. Yeah, >>definitely. We've learned to keep support clothes. I mean, they're awesome. They know their stuff. There's some things we've had issues with that I wanted to do that it wasn't a good fit or we've ran into some bugs here and there, but they're really responsive and they'll put all the alpha specialists for you and weeks, you know, and things just end up working. >> Alright, so here at the conference, what are some of the conversations that you're having because you are in the legal industry and so not necessarily community college communicating all day with people in the high tech industry. So bring us inside a little, tell us about the conversations you're having, interesting people that you're meeting, things that are sparking your interest. >> It's neat because I've met some people through the panel I was on yesterday and they're asking questions that don't even title legal. You know, they have the same access as we do, but they are just either apply to manufacturing or applied to natural gas or whatever happens to be. Um, and then when you know, meetings from the vendors here, it's interesting too, you know, I'm an illegal mindset now and they say, Hey, what about this? And you go, Oh, that's some game changer. And you know, and all of a sudden you can apply it to your field. >>More sense. Yeah. How about this your first time attending Microsoft ignite? Give us a little bit your impressions, you know, uh, the, the, the good, the bad. And the interesting is it's really >>big. I walked through here Sunday night when when nobody was here. It's like, Oh, this isn't too bad. And then I think I walked 10 miles the first day getting places and it's usually pretty well laid out and unless there's beer or food and everybody kind of goes to it and it's hard to move around. But other than that I think it's pretty cool. So what are the kinds of things you're going to take back? As you said, you are sometimes talking to people who are in a completely different industry with you and they are saying things that spark your interest and spark new ideas. What are the kinds of things you're going to take back to shoe loop when you arrive back in total Toledo, we're trying to look at all these new buzzwords like on new, but like blockchain or AI and how they can help us do our jobs better and serve their attorneys better. Um, is there something that I haven't thought of that blockchain can, can do this >>for us and better than we're doing it now now. So Carl, one of the things we've noticed there, there's a real growth in some of the developer content here as an infrastructure person. And I'm curious your view on that, that that side of the world. >>That is not my strong suit. Obviously I came from a world where that was a big deal and I could learn some things. But as far as my background goes and learning about it, it's kinda over my head. Um, you know, I can get it behind this stuff, talk to automate processes and make things, you know better. But as far as the dev side, I'm kind of going, Hey, no, I know if I get this, but, but there is such a push here for citizens and for citizen developers and to sort of democratize this and say even you can do this, which is awesome and in a way because the more eyes have on something, the better they go. You know I can even if I don't understand something, I can ask the question, Hey, why is this work this way? You go, Oh it shouldn't work this way. >>Let's fix this and and make things better. You know. Anything more about kinda your firm's relationship with Microsoft? So many announcements here. Not, no, not sure if teams has used a in your environment. We are using Skype right now but we have way pushed to go to two teams. So that's going to be a big, big push for us in queue for this year and digging next year and then we're looking at moving to Azure at some point. Getting our stuff up there and making you know to be most effective, faster, better. How do you stay up to date with all of these new announcements and not just here at Microsoft, but even in the larger technology community. You can't stop learning. You can't stop reading. You know? You look at the like the slash dots of the world and you just keep looking at things and some things may make sense. >>Some things I'm like, Oh, that's kind of cool. I'll read it later. All of a sudden it goes, Oh, that's a big idea and we should look at this some more. But again, it's having those trusted people that you know or colleagues that say, Hey, I saw this. I saw that. Take a look at that suit. You think so? I know in your, in your off time, you are an officiant of a number of different sports. I'm curious to hear how you bring what you do as an officiant into your job at shoe loop and the similarities. The differences. In my help desk days, it was a lot easier because I could take the, the end user ratings a lot easier because I will hold nothing personal, but it's neat too. I mean, when you're an official, you have, there's a, there's a way things work. There's a, there's a set of rules you have to follow and, and it, and even anything that's technology based there, it's all logical progression of things. This is the way things work and not they blinders as much, but as much as you just follow the process, which makes this audience here. Great. Well thank you so much Carla, for having me. It was great having you on the show. Thank you guys. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage. Microsoft ignite.

>> From Santa Clara, in the heart of Silicon Valley it's theCUBE, covering the Churchills, 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Santa Clara, California at the Churchills. It's the ninth annual awards banquet put on by the Churchills Club, and this year is all about leadership. We're excited to be joined by our next guest who knows a little bit about leadership. He's Carl Guardino, the president and CEO of the Silicon Valley Leadership Group. Carl, great to see you. >> Great to see you, too, Jeff. >> So what is the Silicon Valley Leadership Group all about? >> The Silicon Valley Leadership Group is an association of about 360, primarily innovation economy employers that want to make a positive, proactive difference here in the region, as well as in our state and across the United States. >> What are some of the hot topics that are on top of the plate right now? Because there is a lot of craziness kind of going on here in Silicon Valley. >> There is. But what we try to do is impact those issues that are as important to families in their living rooms as they are to CEOs in their board rooms. And here in the bay area, we call those THEE issues. An acronym, T-H-E-E. The T, traffic; H, housing affordability; E, education; and the fourth E, the economy. And we try to bring together diverse points of view for those areas that unite us, where we can actually solve some of those challenges. >> Right, and those are big, big challenges. And you work both with public as well as private groups to try to bring them together to make movement on those things. >> We're a bridge. And the first thing about a bridge is that you try to bring folks together to cross the bridge and work together. The second most important thing about a bridge is that you build them, you don't burn them down. And that's the role that we try to play with 360 highly engaged CEOs and c-suite officers. >> And it's only appropriate, because tonight you'll be sitting down in a conversation with the mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo, to kind of get into some of these issues. San Jose seems to be on a roll right now, a positive roll. A lot of positive news coming out of San Jose. >> Yes, and that always starts with leadership rather than luck. San Jose mayor Sam Liccardo, 10th largest city in the United States, has been able to strike that balance of being pro-innovation economy, while also caring deeply about his citizens, the residents of San Jose, 1,053,000, and how we make sure that we have a strong and vibrant economy, but also a great quality of life. >> Right. So how do you even begin to - we'll start with traffic. The T in the THEE. To address that issue, it's so multifaceted, right, it's so tied to jobs, it's tied to housing, it's tied to the growth of the economy, you know, unfortunately freeways are slow to build, public transportation's expensive, but we continue to see growth there. How do you kind of eat that elephant, one bite at a time, with something like traffic? >> Well the role of the leadership group is, again, by bringing people together to solve complex problems in a democracy with winning solutions. So we'd rather win than whine. And when it comes to traffic, one of our core competencies is actually to lead and run ballot initiatives to fund transportation improvements throughout the region and the state. In fact, in the last 30 years alone, I've had the pleasure of going on loan from the leadership group to run ballot campaigns for transportation improvements that have totaled 30 billion dollars in revenue through those measures, approved by voters to reach into our own wallets, rather than our neighbors, to build improvements that, this Christmas, in time to go into your stocking, we'll be bringing BART to San Jose, and working on the electrification of Caltrain, linking transit and better road improvements, making it better for all of us trying to travel throughout this region. >> Right. Good, we need it. >> We do. >> And on the housing, you know, because the housing is also very closely tied to traffic, and we see that the old days of single-family homes on big pieces of dirt, those are going away. They just can't support it in higher density areas like San Fransisco, San Jose, to bring those jobs next to that. So we're seeing a huge transformation in the housing space as well. >> And we need a huge transformation, both in transportation and in housing. And it's really the flip side to the same coin. T, for tails, or transportation; H, for head, or housing. And you have to make sure that you keep those linked. In fact, one of our initiatives right now is to work with all six, fixed rail transit operators throughout the nine bay area counties. What are the current and future uses of those half miles around every fixed rail transit stop that you have? How do we maximize those uses? Here's a great example. What Google wants to do in downtown San Jose, at the Diridon SAP station, is only because of the Silicon Valley Leadership Group's work to bring BART to that station, electrify Caltrain, light rail is there, Amtrak, ACE, et cetera, and they want to have 20 to 25 thousand future Google employees there within the next 10 to 12 years. Why? Because it is a sustainable location that doesn't rely on you and I slogging through traffic in our single-occupant cars. >> Right. I can't wait to see what you guys do to El Camino. That's the next one that's going to - as somebody once said in one of these traffic things, it's just a bunch of old retail stores with empty parking lots, just placed by Microsoft. Or excuse me, by Amazon. So I think we'll see a big transformation with housing and jobs, you know, along that quarter, which happens to parallel the Caltrain, and is near and dear to my heart. So a lot of good opportunities I think to make improvements. >> Jeff, there is. And as hard as transportation and traffic solutions are to put into place, housing is even tougher. And while Bay Area residents think housing is the bigger crisis, the solutions are tougher to come about, because the community isn't as united on those solutions. So the role that a group of employers like ours play, is how do we bring people together around solutions that make sure that we build homes, that are good for everyone in our society. >> Well Carl, I like your positive attitude, a lot of winning and no whining, so I wish you nothing but success. And we'll be watching. >> Thank you, Jeff. >> You're welcome. He's Carl, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at the Churchills in Santa Clara, California. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, everyone. Welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, theCUBE Studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with two great guests, Carl Eschenbach, partner at Sequoia Capital on the board of Cohesity as well with the CMO Lynn Lucas. Lynn, great to see you. Carl, thanks for coming back on. >> Great to be here. >> Appreciate it. So Lynn, you know we've been following you guys for many many years, watching the rapid growth of Cohesity. Funding round after funding round, Unicorn. From a start up, to going through the atmosphere heading into orbit, nice growth. >> Mid-size company I would say now. >> Yeah >> Yeah >> No longer a startup. >> Growing like crazy. >> No longer a startup, yeah. >> Good round, good financing track. Thanks to Sequoia. >> Well, we're proud and happy investors and partners with them, that's for sure. >> Yeah, one of the things we're super excited about right now, Lynn I want to get your thoughts on this is that, how do you maintain the growth because cloud is an ever changing landscape, data management's really hot and changing. What's been the success formula for you guys, staying ahead? Both in terms of continuing to push the brand, push the message and success. What's been the formula? >> Well, I think it starts with our founder, Mohit Aron, and his vision and strategy which, if you go back, he's been extraordinarily consistent on and he saw this massive opportunity to take hyper-convergence, which of course he's really the father of from Nutanix and bring it to this whole other area of data, the vast majority of data that enterprises have. That is in all of these different silos and so really I think that Cohesity has this opportunity to be a once in a generation platform company much like VMware and really change the way enterprises, protect, manage, store and ultimately do more with their data. So, I'm going to say it's less about the brand. I'm proud about the brand. But, it's really about... >> You did a great job the brand, but I think the execution is. I think one thing I love about this market cloud in the next ten years ahead of us is that you can come into the market with a feature or a specific thing, like backup and turn it into a broad ranging high-growth, billions dollars of value. I think that's what you guys are on. But I, while we have Carl here, I want to put him on the spot because, you know, of his experience at VMware and now at Sequoia. What's he bringing to the table for Cohesity? What's his operational knowledge? What is some of the things Carl's brought to Cohesity? >> Oh, my gosh. >> What hasn't he brought. >> Well, Carl is obviously incredibly experienced and brings a wealth of go to market knowledge and connections and advice for us. I think instrumental in helping us see how to scale. As well as, change and shift the business model over to software and subscription. Which is what Cohesity did last year and is right in line with the move towards the cloud. >> Carl, your thoughts? >> I have to say one of the things just to echo, so thank you for those kind words. But quite frankly its all about execution and these folks at Cohesity know how to execute. If you just look at their scale over the last three years and their ability to execute. It's pretty impressive, not on the technology side only. But, if you think about their go to market motion and what they've not both here in the U.S., internationally, over into, you know, Asia and in Japan with the joint venture they have with SoftBank and some of the others. It's been amazing to watch them scale and to go market and also the ecosystem that they started to build around them and leveraging partners like HPE and Cisco as Cohesity has transitioned from being an appliance solution to being a software and data management platform and moving the hardware to other partners. It's been amazing to watch that transformation happen. So, it's technology, yes. But, it's also every other component and piece of the business that's been able to scale through good execution. >> Let's talk about the ecosystem, cause I think it's a super important, ever changing conversation. Especially as the bigger players get bigger and then the mid-size folks like you guys get bigger as well. The relationships change. You've certainly seen your share, Carl, at VMware. At VMworld every year, the ecosystem has its growth. It changes over, new value propositions are coming in. You have a constant rotation through the ecosystem dynamic. >> Yeah, no. >> What are some of the going on now that Cohesity's taken advantage of? >> What are they... >> Yeah, so because Cohesity is actually building a true platform as Lynn was articulating. If you're a platform in a data center it means two things. You have to partner with people on the south-bound side of that platform and the north-bound side of the platform because everything's going to go through a platform and because of that you form a very rich ecosystem but you also form sometimes competitors. In this world everyone I think describes it as friends and enemies. They're frenemies and they've done a very good job at that but at the same time they've really focused on key partners like an HPE or a Cisco or many others that can really differentiate themselves and allow them to focus on what they truly are and that's a data management software company. So, I think they've done a really good job navigating the ecosystem and building off of it and aligning with the right people. For example you sit here at VMWworld today. Look at the partnership they have with VMware they have V-ready, you know, certification across vsan, their infrastructure platform. Vcloud Director, AWS, you name it. So, I think they've done a great job and that's thanks to people like Lynn and the team. >> Lynn, talk about the ecosystem dynamic. Because you guys are actively market a big booth every year at VMworld as well as Amazon re:invent and other shows. You have to be out there. What are you hearing? What are some of the dynamics that your working through? >> Well speaking of VMworld and VMware they really were the original ecosystem partner and I think we believe that north of 70 percent of our customers are VMware customers and they're getting better value out of that. But, we haven't talked a lot about the cloud and that's obviously a massive ecosystem that's continuing to develop and bringing those two things together is something that Cohesity specializes in. With our native capabilities, with Amazon, Azure, Google but the other third piece of the ecosystem that we're now developing is the applications and that's unique to Cohesisty really redefining data management. Just announced Cohesity CyberScan based on Tenable running on the Cohesity platform. Prior to the, Splunk, running on the platform. So we're developing these ecosystem partnerships in new ways with application providers. >> So when are we going to see Cohesity world. (laughing) >> I am just so happy to be at Vmworld it's a great place for us to meet a lot of customers and partners. So we'll stay with that. >> Carl you were talking about, before we came on camera, about your first VMworld. You know, oh my god, it's huge, now it's even bigger. This is the opportunity for firms like Cohesity, if they continue the momentum. Building out applications which if you think about it that's an enabling technology. You can enable developers to be successful. That truly is a testament to what a true platform is. >> Yeah, again, I think, she said they don't have a big user conference yet. I don't think it will be long before we such momentum in the market that we will have a user conference at some point. Where you will see a large turnout of people using the technology. People from the ecosystem there and then developers as well and lastly you'll start to see application vendors like a Splunk or a Tenable who are actually now running their applications on top of this. This isn't just data management but it's also supporting applications and when you pull those three different you know constituents together you have a pretty big opportunity to pull off some type of platform show. >> Lynn, I got to put you on the spot here for a minute you got Carl, he's also a partner with Sequoia Venture Capital. What are the pros and cons with working with a big time tier one renowned VC like Sequoia is? Sequoia's Don Valentine is a well documented story. Moritz goes on, the young guns in there now. Get the operating experience from like the Carl's. Pretty established, they got a great business model, you know that. What's the pros and cons of working for the big time Sequoia. >> I've not seen any cons. Pros are as you said the operating experience and I think also the experience in guiding a company through this hyper growth. Cohesity is now well over 1200 employees. Last year, when you and I sat here much less than that, right? And they've seen it and done it before with other partners or with other portfolio companies that I think is one of the best pieces of advice that Carl has given us coming into our company is how to maintain that culture and that focus on the mission as we move through this tremendous growth phase. >> That's interesting, Sequoia loves you when your growing but then, but they've seen success. The cons haven't come yet. But, if you continue to grow there will be no cons. Everyone's happy and growing. But, I want to get your thoughts because Sequoia also builds world-class companies and they also, Apple the names are legendary. Your founder on theCUBE told me that he doesn't just want to get an exit. He wants to build world class company. >> That's right >> Well, exit is not as important as like EMEA. But in like public that happens. He's not in it for the cash. He wants build a durable world class company. >> That's exactly right, right Mohit has had a number of successes, Google, Nutanix. So he's not in this for the short return and we really are focused on building a culture and a set of values and a long term sustainable business and he really means what he says about. He's here to change the world and data is the foundation of what most businesses are going to compete on and he believes he can really empower organizations to do that and we can build a great culture and a great company while were helping. >> Carl when you hear that.. >> I want to piggyback off what Lynn just said and its exactly what Lynn articulated about Mohit to want to build a big enduring company that stands the test of time. If you look at our ethos at Sequoia we want to partner with founders from idea to IPO and beyond. We're not looking for a quit hit, a quick win. We want to be with them through IPO and beyond and build big legendary companies that stand the test of time and in the form of Cohesity we have that opportunity and we're well on that path to build a legendary platform company that will service both the enterprise in the cloud companies into the future. That's our mission, so I think our missions are aligned. >> Well you just answered the question I was going to ask you. That is music to your ears this is the kind of model you guys want and certainly you guys do a good job of exiting out on EMEA and doing, making your LPs a lot of money. You got to make money. >> Right, but, you know a lot of people think when our companies go public this is an exit for us. It's just an event. If we believe in the companies were going to hold long into the public market from that idea and that seed investment, like we did here at Cohesity, well beyond the IPO. >> There's a renaissance going on , I love it because two things are happening in this next 10 years. You seen a systems platform mindset come back versus the quick hits and also people want to build big companies they don't want to do the quick flips anymore. So at lot of young entrepreneurs are, they are in it for a mission. This is a new vibe. What kind of advice do you give entrepreneurs that are looking to bring that Cohesity model and get the attention of Sequoia? What are some of the things that you see as success for the young entrepreneurs out there? >> Yeah, so it is around the word mission. Like we want to partner with people that are mission driven that are going to have a huge impact on business and society as a whole and even you know the social efforts in our world. So were looking for people that want to change the trajectory of whatever it is they are addressing and we think for example with Cohesity there's a radical transformation taking place in the infrastructure and someone's got to innovate because a lot of innovators today are not coming from the incumbent it's coming from the next generation of founders like Mohit and he's very mission driven. Build a big company, service a community of people change the way people store and think about data and manage it and that mission-centric founder is one we love to partner with. >> Final question I'd love to get both your take on this question, Lynn and Carl is. When you meet someone that may not be inside the ropes of technology like the enterprise tech like we are the few and others and they ask you the question "Why is Cohesity so successful?" How do you describe the dynamics of the marketplace and Cohesity's role in it on it's success? What is the answer to that question? >> I think it's really two things. So one is I think that there is this generational shift in the architecture that underpins data and we've got a perfect storm with data doing exponential growth and as Carl's been saying there really hasn't been a lot of innovation in the infrastructure in more than a decade. Mohit saw that, but then that's combined with a mission, a passion for customers and sticking to that execution of serving the customer and that's making us successful. >> Carl your thoughts after that. >> Listen, it starts with technology and to have great technology you have to have a great technical founder and we have that in Mohit, time and time again. I can go, we've all talked about Mohit and how special he is. At the same time you need to build a company that has a special culture, that can stand the test of time, that is resilient, that has grit and has passion and perseverance for the work their doing around their mission and I think we have all of that in Cohesity and that's a lot of it's because of Mohit and people like Lynn that he's brought in around his executive team. You can just see that permeate through the entire organization. >> That's awesome. Thanks for sharing the insight. Carl, great to have you comment here with Lynn on Cohesity, I know your on the board. Lot of great things happening, looking to see what's happening at the VMware parties. Thanks for hosting some awesome events for the community. >> Can't wait to be back. Bring some of our customers on. >> Thanks for spending the time. This is theCUBE Conversation here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this a "Cube" conversation. >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this special "Cube" conversation here, in the Palo Alto "Cube Studios". I'm John Furrier, the host of "theCube", where a special guest, "Cube" alumni Carl Eschenbach was a partner at "Sequoia Capital", former head of "VMWare", running all the fields, COO, many tiles of "VMWare", great to see you Cube alumni. Thanks for coming in. >> It's great to be here, it's always fun to join you on "theCube". We've done a number of these and it's always good to do 'em in different settings and talking about different topics and companies. >> Love the studio love to talk about "VMWare", what they're doing "VMWorld's" right around the corner, it's here, >> Yep. On our doorstep. The market's changing, you're now doing a lot of investments at "Sequoia Capital", you're on a lot of big company boards. Cohesively you eye-path, you're on the front end of all the new trends, on the new waves. So, dated management has become super hot again, we were just talking some editorial around big data, early days had duped, how that kind of went its way but "Cloud" brought in a whole 'nother level of focus on data management. Really, it's still just as important, I've been seeing a lot of investments in this space. What's your view of the current landscape of the data management space right now? >> It's a great question, clearly, you know, there's a tremendous amount of data being created each and every day and the more data there is there's more opportunity to manage it and analyze it and actually use it to help drive your business into the future and drive revenue growth. So there has been a lot of investments, from the likes of "Sequoia", now there's around data and data management specifically like we did with "Cohesity." But I think data, just because there's so much more being created at such a rapid pace it's just become so valuable and every company is becoming a data and data management company because it's one thing to centralize your data. It's another thing to get it into one repository, but really what you want to do is to be able to manage it, analyze it to future predict where you're going to take your business going forward. >> You know, and one of the things that we're hearing all the time is that you don't want to bring data and dump it into a whole new system. It's got to not be non-destructive, that's been a very key thing. "Cohesity" has been one of those companies that just has risen really fast from start up to a rapidly growing company to a really strong high valuation, customer success has been phenomenal. You guys are in that, you're on the board of "Cohesity", was that obvious with those guys when you saw them, when the investment was there, what was the-- what interests you about "Cohesity"? What's the big focus? >> Yes, so there was a couple of things, let's start with-- always when you're doing an investment you want to look at the founder. What is the founder and what is his or her experience and what have they done in the past? And when you look at Mohit, there a very few founders of his caliber when it comes to infrastructure, data, data management. If you just look back, he was a rockstar at "Google", and in fact, you could-- many people can say he wrote the distributed file system for "Google" that it still runs on today. He left there after doing an amazing job and became an entrepreneur and co-founded "Nutanix", and wrote the, you know, file system for hyper converged infrastructure and then he said, "you know what? I've done that, I'm going to go do my third thing and I'm going to go and now build a company. And build a company that's going to disrupt a very fragmented market, starting with data storage and backup, but really build a platform for data management." And I think "Sequoia", I wasn't there when they led the initial investment and Bill Coughran, my partner, led the investment said, "you know, this guy is a rockstar, technically, there's not many better than him, and if he can achieve what his vision looks like today, he's going to build a big valuable company." And that's when we leaned in. So it started with the founder, it started with his experience, and then it started with what was he disrupting, and he was disrupting a legacy market in the infrastructure space that hasn't had a lot of innovation. So if you think it's the competitors of "Cohesity", its fun to compete in this market because a lot of them are legacy and they're trying to protect their legacy and they're not innovating and this is something that Mohit has done time and time again. In fact, it's probably the third time he's done it. >> He's a unicorn builder as we say here in "theCube" team, we loved him, he's been on "theCube" many times. But you're the new guy at "Sequoia", so they say, "Okay, Carl, you know the enterprise, you take it." >> Yeah. So you get on the board, it's interesting because his-- he's been on "theCube" and he's told me here, in studio that, you know, executing the entry strategy of the market with data backup and the normal-- the team was huge. But he had the vision, he saw that it wasn't going to be about data management backup and recovery, all that kind of categorical venture. He saw it as a bigger cloud place, sort of as a platform as you said. >> Yeah. What is the success formula for that because a lot of people try to compare, you know, this company that company and "Cohesity" has a unique differentiation. What's your take on that? >> The thing that's really unique about what Mohit and the team at Cohesity have created here is the fact that they've truly built the platform. A lot of people talk about building platforms and platform is like the holy grail in the enterprise because it's very sticky they've done it. Yes, they can do backup, but the fact that they have a distributed file system is scales, like, at web scale that can be used on premise, in the cloud in hybrid environments, the duplication, can do replication can do snapshot and cloning all that but most importantly what he's built is this platform that takes a very fragmented set of data, centralizes it, manages it, but then more importantly a lot of people say where's your data and where are you applications, he's built this platform to centralize data, and now what he's doing completely different than anyone else can do here, John, is he's bringing the actual application to the data. So you can now start to run applications on top of his platform, not just centralize your data, no one else can do that in the industry. >> I think that's one of the key things you see in these successful companies, and then Mohit again talked about-- you enter the market on a known beach head, good tan, but that's just the backup plan of it. >> Yeah. >> But they've been successful. And this has been a formula only a few companies have pulled off, "VMWare" was one of them where you were involved in from the beginning and "VMWare" virtualization has changed the game. And so I got to ask you being to having that "VMWare" history and legacy pedigree, as former CEO of "VMWare", where you've seen it from, you know, few employees to where it is today or when you left. What does "Cohesity" do for those customers 'cause remember "VMWare" was a very ecosystem friendly company. >> Yeah. But that ecosystem has been evolving, what does "Cohesity" bring to "VMWare" customers? >> It's really interesting because if you look at the workloads that are being backed up, supported, or the data that's being centralized on their platform, probably I'm guessing maybe greater than seventy percent of the workloads are VMWare workloads. So there's a tight relationship with VMWare technologically speaking because the amount of workloads and VMs that are being backed up on the "Cohesity" platform. But it goes further than that, there's a lot of commonality around how they go to market. They have a common set of channel partners that resell their technologies that do integration for customers, we have a lot of certifications. With "VMWare" we're VMware ready and certified on "vSAN" same with their hyper converged infrastructures stack. We're even supported are with the "VMWare" on "AWS" platform, we're "VMWare" ready certified for that too, to backup both on premise and off premise. So there are so many different areas we're integrated with VMWare both on go-to-market side and technically speaking, and then like I said, look at the amount of workloads that we're supporting, probably seventy percent plus are "VMWare" environments so, I think it's a really strong partnership and I'd say it's one of the stronger ones that "VMWare" has when it comes to building a data management back-up storage solution. >> The "Amazon" relationship with "VMWare" is certainly critical and "Cohesity" plays what, on both fronts there? >> Yes. So, actually there's three different solutions here. We are supporting "AWS", so "Cohesity" runs on "AWS". We support and we're certified with "VMWare", and then the three of us have come together and we're supported on the VMWare platform running on AWS to do backup and storage recovery for that as well. So there's three different ways those partners are in for. >> So Cohesity is not a public company yet so, and you're on the board so I'm going to ask you the board question. You're sitting in the board meetings, you know, CEO comes in, we're going to take that hill, this is where the future growth it. What is that conversation like? Where is the future growth for "Cohesity"? What does the future look like for them? What do they need to do? >> Yeah so, I do think it is around data management. We're still on the early innings, John, around data management. Backup clearly, I think they can crush the market and I think they're doing a good job competing against the more traditional players and even the emerging ones. We can differentiate ourself, but I think the real opportunity is to really go in with a point solution and then very quickly from that vertical entry go to a horizontal play and do data backup data recovery and data management and the more data we can take from this fragmented world and centralize it and then start to think about, wow we can bring things like "Splunk", bring applications to the data. Now try to move the data around to meet the applications, I think that is a rich opportunity and if you look at the go-to-market strategy of "Cohesity" one thing that's been very impressive to me having grown up for thirty years in the enterprise world, they started out selling to the enterprise, they're landing fortune five, fortune ten companies at scale with multimillion dollar deals as an entry point just to completely redo their backup architecture and how they're going to do data management. You don't see that too often. In three years, the revenue ramp this company's experienced is quite impressive, and I think they have a long way to go, and it's going to be on the back of data management going forward. >> You know, one of the things also they've done real well is they align with the community, they have great events. Their parties at "VMWorld" are legendary, reinventing. So, you know, they always-- they align, they work hard, they play hard but they get the job done. >> Yeah, no, they're known from what I understand, you know, they have a great CMO who you've met many a times, Lynn, she is not only a great CMO and a marketeer, but she knows how to throw a good party and there's always lines waiting outside the doors. A board member, I'm like, "Oh my god, how much did that cost?" But the amount of leads we get out of it, it's a no-brainer. >> Final question, how's it been as a VC? What's it like there? How's life been for you? >> Oh, I feel very fortunate, John. To be a partner at "Sequoia." It's one of the greatest, if not, greatest venture capital firm of all time, forty six years of rich history and to be part of it has been a blessing for me, and I get to bring all of my many years of operating skills to many younger companies. I get to see a lot, get to learn a lot, get to invest in some of the most exciting up and coming companies like "Cohesity" or "Snowflake" or "UiPath" or "Zoom" that's now gone public. I couldn't be happier and be more excited with what I'm doing and the ability to learn everyday from some great partners at "Sequoia." >> You surely got the mightiest touch and great experience in the enterprise; the company's lucky to have you like "Cohesity," congratulations . >> Thank you. >> Thanks for bringing the insight here on "theCube," I'm John Furrier, you're watching a special "Cube" conversation here in the Palo Alto studios, thanks for watching. (lively music)

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo Live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome Back to the Q. We are running out Day two of our coverage of Sisqo Live 2019 from San Diego. Finally. Smartened. Joining Me with David Dante, David Ayer welcoming Carl Hobart to the queue for the first time. Director of product management for network service orchestration from Cisco. Welcome, Carl. >> Thank you so much. Thanks for having you guys >> wearing the Definite Zone. This area has been completely jammed. So buzzy, so full of excitement. For the last two full days, 95% we've been talking about all of the news, the announcement. But network automation is something that we've also been talking about. I was looking at some stats from this Cisco website. I think it was an infographic the other day where of network management is still manual, and I think what hit toe optics alone does that create talk to us about network automation and orchestration? In 2019 what's thie state of the art >> A LL. That's a big topic, but let me see if we can feel some of the layers >> off feeling you can. >> I do spend equated with quite a bit of time with this. And I also have the pleasure of having this conversation with many, many customers because, let me tell you, as uncomfortable as it may feel, you know, for a company like Cisco that is actually the number one topic that customers bring to us. They trust us on so many other dimensions in terms, in terms of the infrastructure that we bring. But the one thing that they really don't want to bring to the front is how can we help them automate their networks? Right? And there's a couple of pressure points going for them. I mean, it's the obvious basic stuff. That manual steps introduce an insane amount of outages and lowers equality. But it's also preparing for what's going to come. So it's that perfect mix between unavoidable and somewhat tedious. It is truly somewhat tedious. It's about cleaning up in front of your door, right? So they're turning to us to try to understand, and this is where it gets really interesting. What are others doing around this? Right, so we get to build a very nice and interesting body of experience working with a number of us, you can imagine large network owners going through the motions towards natural automation because that's number. The observation number one is that it's a long journey. It involves a whole lot of rolls inside of the organization, and it just takes time. So it's not one of these things you can buy yourself out of or you can, you know, hardware yourself out of. It's literally a big a turning point for how they organize themselves, how they hire people, which is huge. We've even had example. So they had to rethink the interior decoration off some of their some of their sight because with the emergence of software people of automation experts, they don't work the same way as traditional network engineers, right? They need another type of building, and that's how it really daunts on some of our customers that okay, way have to step back. So I was coming back to your actual question. Question is that the state of the art right now is the insight that it's a big, big I wouldn't say revolution but evolution towards the software centric world and that it permeates the entire life off people that owns large networks. That insight is actually >> what I saw that the light bulb goes off, okay, but it's it's a maturity curve. It's a bell curve it is for so do you still have? Sure you do. You see complacency. You see fear. What's that? What's that mix look like right now? Is it just a tip of the spear leaning in? Or is it the fat middle is now going for it >> from a vendor perspective. I am, after all, representative with Vova vendor. What's really unique at this place in time is that customers are open and front, loading the conversation with their problems. In many other faces off technology turn, they don't want to talk about their problems. Even even worse, They don't want us to remind them about their problems. They take a front now that's what they want to do, and they want to talk about how bad it is, right, Dave? It's almost like they're competing Now. I'll tell you about it is for me compared to how the others are. So that's huge, because that's true. The tip of the iceberg, like you said on the Insight that they actually have a big honking issue and that time is against them, right? So they are reaching out to vendors wanting to talk about the problems that that's pretty unique. So I think most of the fear and most of the, you know, rationalizing whether in a bad spot that's actually behind them Now it's about getting to solutions. Now it's about opening up, asking for help, sharing the problem with other vendors and other players in the field, and actually kind of almost like huddling around the problem and trying to move it forward as an industry. >> Now is it because you saw that the hyper scale er's had so much success with automation? Is it because of digital transformation? Trying to, you know, grow global scale? They they want to take cost out and shift Resource is why now? Why is it so total mind? >> So not one big thing, but a certain number of incremental pressures that has bean, you know, building up towards a breaking point. I'd say the one thing maybe that comes around mostly is that everybody's very excited about to see what virtualization Khun do for them, right, But virtualization assumes a certain type of the frame roll asset management in a sort of type of automation that blind the assumes, humans or other group, Right? So a big pressure point is to understand, as long as we're doing things manually, there is no virtual ization to be had or actually, virtualization will just make it more complex, and there are no gains to be had. So when I'm thinking about maybe the number one pressure, that's the one thing we have to get humans out of the loop in order to be able to virtual eyes, anything right? Otherwise, well, there will be no gains to be had. And also, I think it's the pressure on the expectations from the customer base. And they don't fundamentally don't understand why networking isn't as agile as workload management applications and all that kind of thing. So we're kind of inheriting the flexibility of the application world on the expectations are kind of falling back on the networking side of things. >> So you talk about virtualization your presume here, including containers in that in that context, right? So that adds another dimension of >> yeah, so the thing you like you want to spend up a container takes, you know, optimized cases below a second. Then go to the phone and call the networking team and ask for a new villain in the top of racks, which simply won't be a good thing, right? So you wanted exactly inside that was fast. Took less than a second. Now let me put a faxing to the networking team so they can go and set the connectivity of said No one. Ever >> right smoke signal that they're never smokes. You go. It makes the string phone carrier pigeons that fly >> little one fly on. Eventually we will have a villa so that that is the thing. They expect the network to respond with the same lightning speed and not only to creating things but moving things, actually tearing down things and removing configurations from the network. That whole lifecycle making the network looked like a malleable resource in the same sense that applications now are through continent generalizations and other things. Is this true at the breaking point, then, for the network engineers? I mean, they've had a uphill battle for a while anyway, but that one really took the price, right? >> Are there any industries in particular that you're seeing were there first or are the first to raise their hands and say, We've got a problem, anything that surprises you Or is it pretty horizontal? Whatyou're saying? >> There's one thing that I really tried to follow and I'll let you in on this secret. You know, between the three of us here, of course, communication service providers and let me spend a couple of seconds on this, mostly the carriers carrier. So there's a whole slew off cos that does nothing but sell Ben with the other carriers. They don't have many end customers themselves, but they passed traffic between the cloud giants and others. Write. It's paper thin margins on enormous amounts of band with, and there's simply no room for humans, right? It's almost like cloud economics, where power is the deciding factor. How cheap you khun game, you can get power. It's the same thing for these people. How how cheap can we produce Massive band with? Those guys were the 1st 1 to do things like connecting their serum system, a sales force or whatever. They're running straight into their network, right? No humans, nothing like that, right? So that's one of my little secrets. I track what they do because they're they're under such extreme margin pressures. >> Yes, right. But because it costs are coming down. And that man, the data volumes or going to the so they're so >> they're they're the probably the first, like, true commodity player in networking, right? So they have to get everything that's not, you know, fixed. Just get it out, get it off the ship, right? Just get it off the shape to win, Right? So there, there, my little secrets. You know, I try to track what they do because they're usually a little bit ahead. >> So what are they doing? >> So they they are again what they're trying to do, You know, normally, in a complication service provider or for that matter, and ambitious enterprise, you have a pretty thick stack of software, right? So at the bottom, obviously, you have the package passing things physical or virtual. Then you have orchestration. Maybe then provisioning, you know? Yeah, layer after layer after layer that has served the services companies really well over the years. Right? But when you step back and look at what you actually do with commodity services, we realized that the little path through that software you can fix with a very, very small set off functions, right? So they're literally just ripping things out and connecting again. They're crn systems straight into the network, and you can hear the pain scream of many. You know, companies that make a whole lot of money and integration, services and and business services and billing and rating in charging and all. That kind of stuff they do is just like like a bear metal implementation ofthe communication, right? So that's what they do. It turns out to be first of all, doable. So they're showing as all that you actually don't have to. Now they have a pretty particular menu off services that they provide. It's pretty short and sweet. It's bad with >> it's a cost for megabit, no frills, exactly >> nothing. No up selling here. But it's what it is, is what it is. So they have having a little easier, but they're really blazing the trail and showing that this can be done with very, very limited amounts off software. But I think that's what they're showing, and the second thing you almost said, it is many of course, enterprises are now extremely application centric that permeates the whole conversation, right? People think of the world in applications apologies, and the network supports the applications. Apologies. So being able to have the network then lock step move with the applications is truly key. I know it sounds simple, but it's it's a It's a big thing for many of our customers >> to ocean. >> It is, well, it is an ocean, and it's it's about making the network come alive for the application owners so it can follow in an ergonomically nice and robust fashion. That's the other really big pressure. So following people that has a strong application bias and trying to delight them as a networking person, which is by no means easy. Some of them actually don't like as much. You know. Some of them would actually like to get rid of the network if they physically could write, but they can't, so they have to live with it. And it's up to us then, to prove that there's actually value in the network by surfacing all the cool stuff that we have to them on their home turf, so to speak. So that's the kind of the second >> driver here, this gold in that net, then that data that's traveling over that it is it is for sure >> is just We haven't made it really easy for them to love way have to improve on them. That's what we have. >> We'll, Carl, thank you so much for a excited, passionate conversation with David me about network service, orchestration and the opportunities. And I love how you're starting to see customers first step in any problem. Situation is admitting. I have a problem and you're saying that that's awesome. We thank you so much for sharing your time and your energy with us. Thanks >> for having me. >> Our pleasure for day Volante. I'm Lisa Martin. We're wrapping up Day two of our coverage of Sisqo live. Join Dave student Amanda myself tomorrow as we broadcast all day. Our third and final day here and Sisqo live in San Diego. Thanks for watching

>> From the ARIA Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCube. Covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCube. We are at AWS Reinvent 2018. We got to get a number, I don't know how many people are here, but Vegas is packed. I think it's in six different venues tonight. We're at the ARIA at the hub with the AWS Marketplace & Service Catalog Experience, kicking everything off. We're excited to be joined by cube alumni. Last we saw him, I think it was in San Francisco Summit 2017. Carl Krupitzer, the CEO of ThingLogix. Carl, great to see you. >> Thank you it's great to be here. >> So I think you were saying before we turned the cameras on, you came early days. This whole piece here was not even as big a the room we're in. >> Right well we were part of the service launch for IoT, and that was just a few years ago, and it's exponentially bigger. Yeah. Just the expo, this is not even the expo floor right? And this is bigger than what we had originally. So excited to see it grow. >> So IoT keeps growing, growing, growing. That's all we hear about. In Industrial IoT, we did the Industrial IoT launch with GE back in better days. For them, huge opportunity. Really seeing a lot of momentum. What are some of the observations you're seeing actually out in marketplace? >> You know it's interesting. When we first started with the IoT service offering for AWS, there was a lot of proof of concepts going on, a lot of people kind of hacking their way through understanding what IoT is and how it could impact their business. And I think we've gotten to the point now where we're seeing more production roll-outs with very considerate business drivers behind it. >> Right. I think it's funny you're talking about doing some research for this, and you guys are really specific. I love it. It's not Greenfield projects you know? Have specific design objectives, have specific KPIs, have specific kind of ideas about what the functionality you want before you just kind of jump into IoT space with two feet. >> Right. Yeah we strongly discourage companies from just jumping in with both feet just because right? It's an expensive undertaking IoT, and it has the potential to really change your business for the better if you do it well. >> So where are you seeing the most uptake? Or maybe that surprises you the most in these early days? Kind of industry wise? >> We see a lot of creative use cases starting to come up. Kind of that secondary use of data, and one of the things that we've-- we kind of describe our customers having a life cycle of IoT right? They come in to solve a specific problem with us, which is usually a scalability, or a go to market issue. And then very quickly, they kind of get to the art of the possible. What can we do next? And we see a lot of companies really getting creative with the way they do things. From charging with-- using our FID tags in sub-Saharan Africa for water to solar power and things like that. It's interesting to see companies that didn't exist a few years ago, and couldn't have existed a few years ago, really kind of getting a lot of traction now. >> Right. It's funny we did an interview with Zebra Sports a few years ago actually now. And they're the one that's old RFID technology that put the pads in the shoulder pads for all the NFL players. They're on the refs, they're in the balls. It is such a cool way to apply on old technology to a new application and then really open up this completely different kind of consumer experience in watching sports. When you've got all this additional data about how fast are they running and what's their acceleration. And I think they had one example where they showed a guy in an interception. They had the little line tracker. Before he'd gotten all the way back in, it was a pick six. It's unbelievable now with this data. >> Our Middle Eastern group is actually doing a pilot right now for camel racing. So we're doing telemetry attached to the camels that are running around the tracks. We're getting speed and heart rate and those sorts of things. So it's everywhere right? >> I love it. Camel racing. So we're here at the AWS Marketplace Experience. So tell us a little bit about how's it working with AWS. How's the the marketplace fit within your entire kind of go to market strategy? >> Well so for us, the marketplace is really key to our go to market strategy right? I mean we're a small company and we-- our sales team is really kind of focused on helping customers solve problems and the marketplace really offers us the ability to not have to deal with a lot of the infrastructure things of servicing a customer right? They can go there, they can self sign up, they can implement the platform, our technology platform on their own and then billing is taken off of our plate. So it's not something that we have to have a bunch of resources dedicated to. >> Is there still a big services component though, that you still have to come in to help them as you say kind of define nice projects and good KPI's and kind of good places to start? Or do they often times on the marketplace purchase just go off to the races on their own? >> So it's a combination. If companies are looking to solve a specific problem with an IoT platform like Foundry, it's definitely a self implementable thing and it's becoming more and more self implementable. Foundry really deploys into a customers account using Cloud formation, and Cloud formation templates allow us to kind of create these customized solutions that can then be deployed. So it's-- we're getting a combination of both. >> Yeah, and I would imagine it's taken you into all kinds of markets that you just don't-- you just don't have the manpower to cover when you have a distribution partner at EWS. >> Yeah it's made things a lot faster for us to be able to spin up vertical solutions or specific offerings for a particular large customer. Marketplace can take care of all of the infrastructure on that. >> Alright so what are you looking for here at Reinvent 2018? You've been coming to these things for awhile. I know Andy's tweeting out, his keynote is ready to have the chicken wing contest I think, last night at midnight. Too late for me, I didn't make it. (laughs) >> For us I mean, some of the more exciting things that are out there are the emergence of server-less right? You see server-less, all of those AWS services really taking off. >> Right. >> But there's also the Sumarian, the ARVR's really kind of exploding. So for us it's really about, this is a great place for us to see the direction that AWS is heading and then make sure that our offering, and our technology is layered on top of that appropriately. >> And what are you hearing from your customers about Edge? All the talk about Edge and there's some fudd I think going about how does Edge work with Cloud and to me it's like two completely separate technology applications, but then you know what you're trying to accomplish. As kind of the buzzwords, Edge gets beyond the buzz and actually starts to be implemented, what do you kind of seeing and how's that working together with some of the services that Amazon's got? >> I mean Edge architecture's are an important component to a solution. Especially solutions that require real time data processing and decision making at the shop floor or whatever you have. AWS has taken very big strides toward creating service offerings and products down at the Edge that interface well with the Cloud. So for us, our perspective on it is that the Edge is really a reflection of the business logic and the processes and things that we define and build for a customer. Because ultimately those Edge processes have to feed the enterprise processes, which is what we really focus on right? How do we get machine data into enterprise systems? So Edge technology for us is definitely a consideration and when we build our select technology solutions, we look at Edge as a component in that architecture and we try to meet the needs of the customers specific use case when it comes to Edge. >> Right. Yeah it's not killing the Cloud. Who said that? - Right. >> So silly. >> Yeah it can't kill it. >> It's not slowing down this thing. >> Right. Alright Carl well thanks for taking a few minutes and have great Reinvent. >> Yeah thank you. - [Jeff] Hydrate. >> Thanks for your time. Definitely. - They say hydrate. Alright he's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We're at AWS Marketplace inservice catalog experience. We're at the Aria in the quads. Stop on by. Thanks for watching we'll see you next time.

(dramatic music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in our Palo Alto studios having a CUBEConversation. We have a itty-bitty little break in the middle of this crazy conference season. Next week, we're back on the road. And one of the places we're going is UiPath Forward Americas. It's our first time to the UiPath user conference. They're all about the RPA, robotic process automation, which is a super hot space and we're really excited to have with us today Carl Eschenbach. He's a partner at Sequoia Capital, who just came in on UiPath's latest round of funding. Which was pretty significant. You can read all about it in the papers as they say. So we're excited to have Carl here. Carl, great to see you again. >> Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so we of course known you for years and years and years, you had a long, illustrious career at VMware. You've been in the VC world at Sequoia for a couple of years. How are you liking the transition to VC? >> I really enjoyed it. I had a great many year run, almost 15 years at VMware. I was thankful for it, but the transition to Sequoia, I don't think it could have gone any better. I've really enjoyed it and to be working at Sequoia, which is a tremendous platform behind you, with 45 years of rich history, is just a privilege. And leveraging my operating experience of 29 years, now putting it to work through the Sequoia brand, has been pretty exciting for me. I'm very thankful. >> It's been a pretty good run for former VMware guys, in VC. You know, Jerry Chen is on all the time, from Greylock. There's a number of you guys out there. >> Yeah, there's a number. I think Jerry, I think Steve Herrod's now. You know, Martin Casado who was the founder of Nicira, that we bought at VMware was at VC, so there's a bunch of people who have proliferated the VC market, but none of them got the opportunity to be at Sequoia like I did. So I feel very privileged. >> And it really points to the opportunity, the continue innovation opportunity in the enterprise space. 'Cause you're not investing in dating apps, or autonomous vehicles, maybe autonomous vehicles, I don't know, but it's really more the enterprise opportunity continues to be rich with new, kind of transformative opportunities. >> Yeah I think that's right. I spend the majority of my time, as you could imagine, in the enterprise, that's where I grew up, and my operating experience is all in the enterprise deep infrastructure, so I leverage that experience here at Sequoia, focusing on the enterprise. Both infrastructure, hardware, software, public, private cloud, SaaS. So anything associated with offerings in the enterprise, is where I focus and I'll tell you, over the last few years it's been a really rich environment for an investor to think about what's happening in the enterprise as people still are looking for technologies to transform their business at such a rapid rate. Both on premise and obviously with the cloud environment, it's not if, it's when and how fast people ultimately move into the cloud. >> Right, it fascinates me how we continue to uncover these huge buckets of inefficiency. I mean, you think, I used to tease my friends at a center, tease them that you guys wrang all the fat out of the supply chain, now everything's on back order all the time. >> Yeah. >> But we still find huge chunks of inefficiency, and huge opportunities to get more value out, which is I think, one of the fundamental differences in this kind of stock round up and this productivity. It's real, it's not just smoke and mirrors, there are huge still opportunities. >> Yeah, no I agree, I mean, listen, there are huge opportunities to drive gains and productivity. One of the things we're going to talk about is RPA, for example. How do you automate your enterprise to move towards a digitized world? And by doing that you become more automated, which just drives your productivity, your people that much higher, so I think with the ever increasing use of AI and machine learning, getting deeper, deeper integrated into enterprise solutions. It makes things that much more automated, which impacts the productivity of your people, which hopefully has great returns on both your top line growth and bottom line savings. >> Right, so let's dig into that, 'cause business process automation has been around for a long time. I was teasing about a center, you know you bring 'em in and they spend a lot of time, and they map a bunch of stuff out and they change a lot of things. RPA, robotic process automation, which is a relatively new term, I didn't hear about it 'til relatively recently, is a very different approach to automation, than just hiring in all the consultants. It's about actually letting machines learn, listen, and start to build those new processes. >> Yeah, if you think about the BPO world, BPO was still and is still a very manual human intensive activity. To your point, you're bringing on all these people. You do an outsource and then but there's still someone there, you know, doing data entry, and doing very mundane, kind of easy work. But it's all human driven. And people used to try to solve this by going to offshore locations, with lower cost opportunities, where you can get a workforce that's much cheaper, than here in the states. But again it was all human driven. Now with the advent of something like RPA, that can be substituted with software, and software bots or robots. And by doing that it just drives up the efficiency at which you're doing everything in your older system. So, that's why we've seen such a rapid acceleration that you can't ignore around RPA. Just over the last couple of years this has accelerated extremely quickly, the technology's become a lot more mature, people are starting to implement it, it's one of the first instantiations of AI in the enterprise. And if you think about it, Jeff, implementing a software bot that may replace, three, four, five humans. And oh, by the way, the bot can work 24 hours a day. Oh, by the way, the accuracy rate of the bot is probably significantly higher than a human, so the ROI and the value proposition around RPA is very straightforward. You can't ignore the value it brings. And everyone as you know is always looking to save cost, but it does more than just save cost. It actually starts to impact your top line revenue growth. Because you can take those humans, who used to do those mundane tasks, and you can repurpose them to work on, if you will, revenue generating, profitable activities, while the software bots take care of all the automation of your older legacy systems. >> Right, and it's even, not even, its little things. I'm never amazed, right? I do a ton of interviews, we talk about automation all of the time. I still do a whole lot of manual stuff, that I would much rather have my robotic assistant help me do, simple things like you know, make sure that we get the picture out from this interview, you know, after the fact. All these little mundane tasks that the sum total of which are a lot of activity, and then as you said, I think the other really important piece is the accuracy, right? When you, unfortunately, with computers, unfortunately, they only like to do it the way they get set up to do it. They're not really good at errors so much, so once you set it up. But you know, this RPA is different in that the people aren't doing it, they're actually letting the robots do it so VMware early days of virtualization, now we're getting to the point where the compute, the store, and the network are to a point where you get the horsepower to support this type of function. >> Yes. >> I didn't have it in the past. >> Yep, yeah and with RPA, I think, one of the things that's pretty neat, is people are starting to implement RPA, and they're always finding new use cases for it. And once they get some experience in programming these software bots, right, they start to realize well maybe we can implement this in this other area. So it may start in a finance organization, and it may move into, you know, automating cost centers, or automating what you're doing in sales, or sales operations, so there's many opportunities, once it's implemented once to find other use cases. And actually, you're starting to see people become software bot developers. Like they have to set up these bots to implement 'em in their environment. So people have to learn how to program these bots, and then implement 'em. So there's an ecosystem that's starting to be established around the RPA industry. You mentioned some of the Accentures of the world, they're the old BPOs. There's some of the biggest customers of people like UiPath because what they do is they say, wow, today we're solving this with humans, but if I could solve this now with software, in RPA and technology, like UiPath is providing, I can drive up my margins because I'm doing it through the use of software. And I can repurpose those people to do other tasks. >> Right, so great point. You brought UiPath, and that's what we started with. What did you see as an investor, as an executive in UiPath both the technology and the team and their execution, that led you guys to go in on this big round? >> Yeah so we did a pretty deep dive across the entire RPA landscape. Listen, you couldn't ignore the momentum, right? We say don't fight gravity. We saw the momentum of the RPA market accelerating, and the way I like to describe it, it went from a push market where people have to push their technology into the enterprise, to now it's a pull market where the enterprise is pulling the technology in. Now they're looking for the best solution. So we recognized the growth in the RPA market, to your point, just in the last two or three years, it's really accelerated. And then as we looked at the landscape, we had the opportunity to spend time with Daniel, the co-founder and CEO, and I think there was a few things that stood to us around UiPath. Number one, Daniel is a very unique founder. He's been at this for years and his level of perseverance and commitment to make this a very successful company is unwavering. The fact that they're global in nature already, this is a company who started in Bucharest, expanded internationally and expanded to the US simultaneously so they're covering the three major geographies around the world already today even at an early stage of the company. Which is very, very important for someone when you're an investor to say, wow, what's your global footprint? So we had to help them get into these markets. Today they're established around the world. >> They're already there. >> They're in Japan. They're across Europe, because of where they originated. They have a new headquarters in New York, and they're hiring rapidly. The second is we think their technology that exists today in the roadmap, where they're going in the future, was very powerful. And they're going to continue to implement more and more, if you will, AI into their platform. The other thing that we were impressed with was the fact that they are customer focused. They're very customer centric. And they built a global footprint to support their global customers, and they've had to do that because of the rapid acceleration of the product. They think they're getting like six new enterprise customers a day. >> Wow >> On the UiPath platform. And if you're going to do that in a global footprint, you have to have support around the world. And they're maniacal about how they support their customers. So all of this led to us looking at the market, recognizing the RPA growth and saying, UiPath is the company we want to bet on and we couldn't be more excited to be part of the company, and to help them on their journey as they continue to grow. >> Yeah, well we're excited to go to our first UiPath Americas Forward, Forward America, I got it right. Yeah, we'll be there next week, it's in the Fontainebleau hotel in Miami. And we're looking forward, 'cause like you said, it seemed to come out of nowhere. But as typically is the case, right? Always an overnight success, 10 years in the making, we're just late to see. >> Yeah, they have conferences they've been doing around the world, Jeff, UiPath. And every conference they do, including Japan, it's like a standing room only, because there is so much interest in this technology, and again I think anything associated with automating your infrastructure, moving to a new digitalized world, and everyone has a digital strategy first kind of mentality in the enterprise, these people fit right in, smack in the middle of that. >> Yeah, well, clearly the valuation speaks to that, as market validation. >> Yeah. >> So no doubt about it, Well Carl, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day. Glad to hear the VC life is treating you well. >> Well, thanks for having me. It's good to see you guys again back here on theCUBE. It's always fun spending time with you, and thanks for your interest in UiPath and RPA. I think it's a really exciting market, and I'm quite confident we'll continue to accelerate at unprecedented rates. >> Alright, well great. Well, thanks a lot Carl. He's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're having a CUBEConversation at our Palo Alto studio. Taking a break from the conference season, but we'll be heading back on the road soon. Thanks for watching. >> Thank you. (dramatic music)

(dramatic music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in our Palo Alto studios having a CUBEConversation. We have a itty bitty little break in the middle of this crazy conference season. Next week, we're back on the road. And one of the places we're going is UiPath Forward Americas. It's our first time to the UiPath user conference. They're all about the RPA, robotic process automation, which is a super hot space and we're really excited to have with us today Carl Eschenbach. He's a partner at Sequoia Capital, who just came in on UiPath's latest round of funding. Which was pretty significant. You can read all about it in the papers as they say. So we're excited to have Carl here. Carl, great to see you again. >> Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so we of course known you for years and years and years, you had a long, illustrious career at VMware. You've been in the VC world at Sequoia for a couple of years. How are you liking the transition to VC? >> I really enjoyed it. I had a great many year run, almost 15 years at VMware. I was thankful for it, but the transition to Sequoia, I don't think it could have gone any better. I've really enjoyed it and to be working at Sequoia, which is a tremendous platform behind you, with 45 years of rich history, is just a privilege. And leveraging my operating experience of 29 years, now putting it to work through the Sequoia brand, has been pretty exciting for me. I'm very thankful. >> It's been a pretty good run for former VMware guys, in VC. You know, Jerry Chen is on all the time, from Greylock. There's a number of you guys out there. >> Yeah, there's a number. I think Jerry, I think Steve Herrod's now. You know, Martin Casado who was the founder of Nicira, that we bought at VMware was at VC, so there's a bunch of people who have proliferated the VC market, but none of them got the opportunity to be at Sequoia like I did. So I feel very privileged. >> And it really points to the opportunity, the continue innovation opportunity in the enterprise space. 'Cause you're not investing in dating apps, or autonomous vehicles, maybe autonomous vehicles, I don't know, but it's really more the enterprise opportunity continues to be rich with new, kind of transformative opportunities. >> Yeah I think that's right. I spend the majority of my time, as you could imagine, in the enterprise, that's where I grew up, and my operating experience is all in the enterprise deep infrastructure, so I leverage that experience here at Sequoia, focusing on the enterprise. Both infrastructure, hardware, software, public, private cloud, SaaS. So anything associated with offerings in the enterprise, is where I focus and I'll tell you, over the last few years it's been a really rich environment for an investor to think about what's happening in the enterprise as people still are looking for technologies to transform their business at such a rapid rate. Both on premise and obviously with the cloud environment, it's not if, it's when and how fast people ultimately move into the cloud. >> Right, it fascinates me how we continue to uncover these huge buckets of inefficiency. I mean, you think, I used to tease my friends at a center, tease them that you guys wrang all the fat out of the supply chain, now everything's on back order all the time. >> Yeah. >> But we still find huge chunks of inefficiency, and huge opportunities to get more value out, which is I think, one of the fundamental differences in this kind of stock round up and this productivity. It's real, it's not just smoke and mirrors, there are huge still opportunities. >> Yeah, no I agree, I mean, listen, there are huge opportunities to drive gains and productivity. One of the things we're going to talk about is RPA, for example. How do you automate your enterprise to move towards a digitized world? And by doing that you become more automated, which just drives your productivity, your people that much higher, so I think with the ever increasing use of AI and machine learning, getting deeper, deeper integrated into enterprise solutions. It makes things that much more automated, which impacts the productivity of your people, which hopefully has great returns on both your top line growth and bottom line savings. >> Right, so let's dig into that, 'cause business process automation has been around for a long time. I was teasing about a center, you know you bring 'em in and they spend a lot of time, and they map a bunch of stuff out and they change a lot of things. RPA, robotic process automation, which is a relatively new term, I didn't hear about it 'til relatively recently, is a very different approach to automation, than just hiring in all the consultants. It's about actually letting machines learn, listen, and start to build those new processes. >> Yeah, if you think about the BPO world, BPO was still and is still a very manual human intensive activity. To your point, you're bringing on all these people. You do an outsource and then but there's still someone there, you know, doing data entry, and doing very mundane, kind of easy work. But it's all human driven. And people used to try to solve this by going to offshore locations, with lower cost opportunities, where you can get a workforce that's much cheaper, than here in the states. But again it was all human driven. Now with the advent of something like RPA, that can be substituted with software, and software bots or robots. And by doing that it just drives up the efficiency at which you're doing everything in your older system. So, that's why we've seen such a rapid acceleration that you can't ignore around RPA. Just over the last couple of years this has accelerated extremely quickly, the technology's become a lot more mature, people are starting to implement it, it's one of the first instantiations of AI in the enterprise. And if you think about it, Jeff, implementing a software bot that may replace, three, four, five humans. And oh, by the way, the bot can work 24 hours a day. Oh, by the way, the accuracy rate of the bot is probably significantly higher than a human, so the ROI and the value proposition around RPA is very straightforward. You can't ignore the value it brings. And everyone as you know is always looking to save cost, but it does more than just save cost. It actually starts to impact your top line revenue growth. Because you can take those humans, who used to do those mundane tasks, and you can repurpose them to work on, if you will, revenue generating, profitable activities, while the software bots take care of all the automation of your older legacy systems. >> Right, and it's even, not even, its little things. I'm never amazed, right? I do a ton of interviews, we talk about automation all of the time. I still do a whole lot of manual stuff, that I would much rather have my robotic assistant help me do, simple things like you know, make sure that we get the picture out from this interview, you know, after the fact. All these little mundane tasks that the sum total of which are a lot of activity, and then as you said, I think the other really important piece is the accuracy, right? When you, unfortunately, with computers, unfortunately, they only like to do it the way they get set up to do it. They're not really good at errors so much, so once you set it up. But you know, this RPA is different in that the people aren't doing it, they're actually letting the robots do it so VMware early days of virtualization, now we're getting to the point where the compute, the store, and the network are to a point where you get the horsepower to support this type of function. >> Yes. >> I didn't have it in the past. >> Yep, yeah and with RPA, I think, one of the things that's pretty neat, is people are starting to implement RPA, and they're always finding new use cases for it. And once they get some experience in programming these software bots, right, they start to realize well maybe we can implement this in this other area. So it may start in a finance organization, and it may move into, you know, automating cost centers, or automating what you're doing in sales, or sales operations, so there's many opportunities, once it's implemented once to find other use cases. And actually, you're starting to see people become software bot developers. Like they have to set up these bots to implement 'em in their environment. So people have to learn how to program these bots, and then implement 'em. So there's an ecosystem that's starting to be established around the RPA industry. You mentioned some of the Accentures of the world, they're the old BPOs. There's some of the biggest customers of people like UiPath because what they do is they say, wow, today we're solving this with humans, but if I could solve this now with software, in RPA and technology, like UiPath is providing, I can drive up my margins because I'm doing it through the use of software. And I can repurpose those people to do other tasks. >> Right, so great point. You brought UiPath, and that's what we started with. What did you see as an investor, as an executive in UiPath both the technology and the team and their execution, that led you guys to go in on this big round? >> Yeah so we did a pretty deep dive across the entire RPA landscape. Listen, you couldn't ignore the momentum, right? We say don't fight gravity. We saw the momentum of the RPA market accelerating, and the way I like to describe it, it went from a push market where people have to push their technology into the enterprise, to now it's a pull market where the enterprise is pulling the technology in. Now they're looking for the best solution. So we recognized the growth in the RPA market, to your point, just in the last two or three years, it's really accelerated. And then as we looked at the landscape, we had the opportunity to spend time with Daniel, the co-founder and CEO, and I think there was a few things that stood to us around UiPath. Number one, Daniel is a very unique founder. He's been at this for years and his level of perseverance and commitment to make this a very successful company is unwavering. The fact that they're global in nature already, this is a company who started in Bucharest, expanded internationally and expanded to the US simultaneously so they're covering the three major geographies around the world already today even at an early stage of the company. Which is very, very important for someone when you're an investor to say, wow, what's your global footprint? So we had to help them get into these markets. Today they're established around the world. >> They're already there. >> They're in Japan. They're across Europe, because of where they originated. They have a new headquarters in New York, and they're hiring rapidly. The second is we think their technology that exists today in the roadmap, where they're going in the future, was very powerful. And they're going to continue to implement more and more, if you will, AI into their platform. The other thing that we were impressed with was the fact that they are customer focused. They're very customer centric. And they built a global footprint to support their global customers, and they've had to do that because of the rapid acceleration of the product. They think they're getting like six new enterprise customers a day. >> Wow >> On the UiPath platform. And if you're going to do that in a global footprint, you have to have support around the world. And they're maniacal about how they support their customers. So all of this led to us looking at the market, recognizing the RPA growth and saying, UiPath is the company we want to bet on and we couldn't be more excited to be part of the company, and to help them on their journey as they continue to grow. >> Yeah, well we're excited to go to our first UiPath Americas Forward, Forward America, I got it right. Yeah, we'll be there next week, it's in the Fontainebleau hotel in Miami. And we're looking forward, 'cause like you said, it seemed to come out of nowhere. But as typically is the case, right? Always an overnight success, 10 years in the making, we're just late to see. >> Yeah, they have conferences they've been doing around the world, Jeff, UiPath. And every conference they do, including Japan, it's like a standing room only, because there is so much interest in this technology, and again I think anything associated with automating your infrastructure, moving to a new digitalized world, and everyone has a digital strategy first kind of mentality in the enterprise, these people fit right in, smack in the middle of that. >> Yeah, well, clearly the valuation speaks to that, as market validation. >> Yeah. >> So no doubt about it, Well Carl, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day. Glad to hear the VC life is treating you well. >> Well, thanks for having me. It's good to see you guys again back here on theCUBE. It's always fun spending time with you, and thanks for your interest in UiPath and RPA. I think it's a really exciting market, and I'm quite confident we'll continue to accelerate at unprecedented rates. >> Alright, well great. Well, thanks a lot Carl. He's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're having a CUBEConversation at our Palo Alto studio. Taking a break from the conference season, but we'll be heading back on the road soon. Thanks for watching. >> Thank you. (dramatic music)

>> Live from the MIT campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering the 12th Annual MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of MIT CDOIQ here in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Peter Burris. We have two guests on this segment. We have Cortnie Abercrombie, she is the founder of the nonprofit AI Truth, and Carl Gerber, who is the managing partner at Global Data Analytics Leaders. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE Cortnie and Carl. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So I want to start by just having you introduce yourselves to our viewers, what you do. So tell us a little bit about AI Truth, Cortnie. >> So this was born out of a passion. As I, the last gig I had at IBM, everybody knows me for chief data officer and what I did with that, but the more recent role that I had was developing custom offerings for Fortune 500 in the AI solutions area, so as I would go meet and see different clients, and talk with them and start to look at different processes for how you implement AI solutions, it became very clear that not everybody is attuned, just because they're the ones funding the project or even initiating the purpose of the project, the business leaders don't necessarily know how these things work or run or what can go wrong with them. And on the flip side of that, we have very ambitious up-and-comer-type data scientists who are just trying to fulfill the mission, you know, the talent at hand, and they get really swept up in it. To the point where you can even see that data's getting bartered back and forth with any real governance over it or policies in place to say, "Hey, is that right? Should we have gotten that kind of information?" Which leads us into things like the creepy factor. Like, you know target (laughs) and some of these cases that are well-known. And so, as I saw some of these mistakes happening that were costing brand reputation, our return on investment, or possibly even creating opportunities for risk for the companies and for the business leaders, I felt like someone's got to take one for the team here and go out and start educating people on how this stuff actually works, what the issues can be and how to prevent those issues, and then also what do you do when things do go wrong, how do you fix it? So that's the mission of AI Truth and I have a book. Yes, power to the people, but you know really my main concern was concerned individuals, because I think we've all been affected when we've sent and email and all of a sudden we get a weird ad, and we're like, "Hey, what, they should not, is somebody reading my email?" You know, and we feel this, just, offense-- >> And the answer is yes. >> Yes, and they are, they are. So I mean, we, but we need to know because the only way we can empower ourselves to do something is to actually know how it works. So, that's what my missions is to try and do. So, for the concerned individuals out there, I am writing a book to kind of encapsulate all the experiences that I had so people know where to look and what they can actually do, because you'll be less fearful if you know, "Hey, I can download DuckDuckGo for my browser, or my search engine I mean, and Epic for my browser, and some private, you know, private offerings instead of the typical free offerings. There's not an answer for Facebook yet though. >> So, (laughs) we'll get there. Carl, tell us a little bit about Global Data Analytics Leaders. >> So, I launched Analytics Leaders and CDO Coach after a long career in corporate America. I started building an executive information system when I was in the military for a four-star commander, and I've really done a lot in data analytics throughout my career. Most recently, starting a CDO function at two large multinational companies in leading global transformation programs. And, what I've experienced is even though the industries may vary a little bit, the challenges are the same and the patterns of behavior are the same, both the good and bad behavior, bad habits around the data. And, through the course of my career, I've developed these frameworks and playbooks and just ways to get a repeatable outcome and bring these new technologies like machine learning to bear to really overcome the challenges that I've seen. And what I've seen is a lot of the current thinking is we're solving these data management problems manually. You know, we all hear the complaints about the people who are analysts and data scientists spending 70, 80% of their time being a data gatherer and not really generating insight from the data itself and making it actionable. Well, that's why we have computer systems, right? But that large-scale technology in automation hasn't really served us well, because we think in silos, right? We fund these projects based on departments and divisions. We acquire companies through mergers and acquisitions. And the CDO role has emerged because we need to think about this, all the data that an enterprise uses, horizontally. And with that, I bring a high degree of automation, things like machine learning, to solve those problems. So, I'm now bottling that and advising my clients. And at the same time, the CDO role is where the CIO role was 20 years ago. We're really in it's infancy, and so you see companies define it differently, have different expectations. People are filling the roles that may have not done this before, and so I provide the coaching services there. It's like a professional golfer who has a swing coach. So I come in and I help the data executives with upping their game. >> Well, it's interesting, I actually said the CIO role 40 years ago. But, here's why. If we look back in the 1970s, hardcore financial systems were made possible by the technology which allowed us to run businesses like a portfolio: Jack Welch, the GE model. That was not possible if you didn't have a common asset management system, if you didn't have a common cached management system, etc. And so, when we started creating those common systems, we needed someone that could describe how that shared asset was going to be used within the organization. And we went from the DP manager in HR, the DP manager within finance, to the CIO. And in many respects, we're doing the same thing, right? We're talking about data in a lot of different places and now the business is saying, "We can bring this data together in new and interesting ways into more a shared asset, and we need someone that can help administer that process, and you know, navigate between different groups and different needs and whatnot." Is that kind of what you guys are seeing? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well you know once I get to talking (laughs). For me, I can going right back to the newer technologies like AI and IOT that are coming from externally into your organization, and then also the fact that we're seeing bartering at an unprec... of data at an unprecedented level before. And yet, what the chief data officer role originally did was look at data internally, and structured data mostly. But now, we're asking them to step out of their comfort zone and start looking at all these unknown, niche data broker firms that may or may not be ethical in how they're... I mean, I... look I tell people, "If you hear the word scrape, you run." No scraping, we don't want scraped data, no, no, no (laugh). But I mean, but that's what we're talking about-- >> Well, what do you mean by scraped data, 'cause that's important? >> Well, this is a well-known data science practice. And it's not that... nobody's being malicious here, nobody's trying to have a malintent, but I think it's just data scientists are just scruffy, they roll up their sleeves and they get data however they can. And so, the practice emerged. Look, they're built off of open-source software and everything's free, right, for them, for the most part? So they just start reading in screens and things that are available that you could see, they can optical character read it in, or they can do it however without having to have a subscription to any of that data, without having to have permission to any of that data. It's, "I can see it, so it's mine." But you know, that doesn't work in candy stores. We can't just go, or jewelry stores in my case, I mean, you can't just say, "I like that diamond earring, or whatever, I'm just going to take it because I can see it." (laughs) So, I mean, yeah we got to... that's scraping though. >> And the implications of that are suddenly now you've got a great new business initiative and somebody finds out that you used their private data in that initiative, and now they've got a claim on that asset. >> Right. And this is where things start to get super hairy, and you just want to make sure that you're being on the up-and-up with your data practices and you data ethics, because, in my opinion, 90% of what's gone wrong in AI or the fear factor of AI is that your privacy's getting violated and then you're labeled with data that you may or may not know even exists half the time. I mean. >> So, what's the answer? I mean as you were talking about these data scientists are scrappy, scruffy, roll-up-your-sleeves kind of people, and they are coming up with new ideas, new innovations that sometimes are good-- >> Oh yes, they are. >> So what, so what is the answer? Is this this code of ethics? Is it a... sort of similar to a Hippocratic Oath? I mean how would you, what do you think? >> So, it's a multidimensional problem. Cortnie and I were talking earlier that you have to have more transparency into the models you're creating, and that means a significant validation process. And that's where the chief data officer partners with folks in risk and other areas and the data science team around getting more transparency and visibility into what's the data that's feeding into it? Is it really the authoritative data of the company? And as Cortnie points out, do we even have the rights to that data that's feeding our models? And so, by bringing that transparency and a little more validation before you actually start making key, bet-the-business decisions on the outcomes of these models, you need to look at how you're vetting them. >> And the vetting process is part technology, part culture, part process, it goes back to that people process technology trying. >> Yeah, absolutely, know where your data came from. Why are you doing this model? What are you doing to do with the outcomes? Are you actually going to do something with it or are you going to ignore it? Under what conditions will you empower a decision-maker to use the information that is the output of the model? A lot of these things, you have to think through when you want to operationalize it. It's not just, "I'm going to go get a bunch of data wherever I can, I put a model together. Here, don't you like the results?" >> But this is Silicon Valley way, right? An MVP for everything and you just let it run until... you can't. >> That's a great point Cortnie (laughs) I've always believed, and I want to test this with you, we talk about people process technology about information, we never talk about people process technology and information of information. There's a manner of respects what we're talking about is making explicit the information about... information, the metadata, and how we manage that and how we treat that, and how we defuse that, and how we turn that, the metadata itself, into models to try to govern and guide utilization of this. That's especially important in AI world, isn't it? >> I start with this. For me, it's simple, I mean, but everything he said was true. But, I try to keep it to this: it's about free will. If I said you can do that with my data, to me it's always my data. I don't care if it's on Facebook, I don't care where it is and I don't care if it's free or not, it's still my data. Even if it's X23andMe, or 23andMe, sorry, and they've taken the swab, or whether it's Facebook or I did a google search, I don't care, it's still my data. So if you ask me if it's okay to do a certain type of thing, then maybe I will consent to that. But I should at least be given an option. And no, be given the transparency. So it's all about free will. So in my mind, as long as you're always providing some sort of free will (laughs), the ability for me to having a decision to say, "Yes, I want to participate in that," or, "Yes, you can label me as whatever label I'm getting, Trump or a pro-Hillary or Obam-whatever, name whatever issue of the day is," then I'm okay with that as long as I get a choice. >> Let's go back to it, I want to build on that if I can, because, and then I want to ask you a question about it Carl, the issue of free will presupposes that both sides know exactly what's going into the data. So for example, if I have a medical procedure, I can sit down on that form and I can say, "Whatever happens is my responsibility." But if bad things happen because of malfeasance, guess what? That piece of paper's worthless and I can sue. Because the doctor and the medical provider is supposed to know more about what's going on than I do. >> Right. >> Does the same thing exist? You talked earlier about governance and some of the culture imperatives and transparency, doesn't that same thing exist? And I'm going to ask you a question: is that part of your nonprofit is to try to raise the bar for everybody? But doesn't that same notion exist, that at the end of the day, you don't... You do have information asymmetries, both sides don't know how the data's being used because of the nature of data? >> Right. That's why you're seeing the emergence of all these data privacy laws. And so what I'm advising executives and the board and my clients is we need to step back and think bigger about this. We need to think about as not just GDPR, the European scope, it's global data privacy. And if we look at the motivation, why are we doing this? Are we doing it just because we have to be regulatory-compliant 'cause there's a law in the books, or should we reframe it and say, "This is really about the user experience, the customer experience." This is a touchpoint that my customers have with my company. How transparent should I be with what data I have about you, how I'm using it, how I'm sharing it, and is there a way that I can turn this into a positive instead of it's just, "I'm doing this because I have to for regulatory-compliance." And so, I believe if you really examine the motivation and look at it from more of the carrot and less of the stick, you're going to find that you're more motivated to do it, you're going to be more transparent with your customers, and you're going to share, and you're ultimately going to protect that data more closely because you want to build that trust with your customers. And then lastly, let's face it, this is the data we want to analyze, right? This is the authenticated data we want to give to the data scientists, so I just flip that whole thing on its head. We do for these reasons and we increase the transparency and trust. >> So Cortnie, let me bring it back to you. >> Okay. >> That presupposes, again, an up-leveling of knowledge about data privacy not just for the executive but also for the consumer. How are you going to do that? >> Personally, I'm going to come back to free will again, and I'm also going to add: harm impacts. We need to start thinking impact assessments instead of governance, quite frankly. We need to start looking at if I, you know, start using a FICO score as a proxy for another piece of information, like a crime record in a certain district of whatever, as a way to understand how responsible you are and whether or not your car is going to get broken into, and now you have to pay more. Well, you're... if you always use a FICO score, for example, as a proxy for responsibility which, let's face it, once a data scientist latches onto something, they share it with everybody 'cause that's how they are, right? They love that and I love that about them, quite frankly. But, what I don't like is it propagates, and then before you know it, the people who are of lesser financial means, it's getting propagated because now they're going to be... Every AI pricing model is going to use FICO score as a-- >> And they're priced out of the market. >> And they're priced out of the market and how is that fair? And there's a whole group, I think you know about the Fairness Accountability Transparency group that, you know, kind of watch dogs this stuff. But I think business leaders as a whole don't really think through to that level like, "If I do this, then this this and this could incur--" >> So what would be the one thing you could say if, corporate America's listening. >> Let's do impact. Let's do impact assessments. If you're going to cost someone their livelihood, or you're going to cost them thousands of dollars, then let's put more scrutiny, let's put more government validation. To your point, let's put some... 'cause not everything needs the nth level. Like, if I present you with a blue sweater instead of a red sweater on google or whatever, (laughs) You know, that's not going to harm you. But it will harm you if I give you a teacher assessment that's based on something that you have no control over, and now you're fired because you've been laid off 'cause your rating was bad. >> This is a great conversation. Let me... Let me add something different, 'cause... Or say it a different way, and tell me if you agree. In many respects, it's: Does this practice increase inclusion or does this practice decrease inclusion? This is not some goofy, social thing, this is: Are you making your market bigger or are you making your market smaller? Because the last thing you want is that the participation by people ends with: You can't play because of some algorithmic response we had. So maybe the question of inclusion becomes a key issue. Would you agree with that? >> I do agree with it, and I still think there's levels even to inclusion. >> Of course. >> Like, you know, being a part of the blue sweater club versus the (laughs) versus, "I don't want to be a convict," you know, suddenly because of some record you found, or association with someone else. And let's just face it, a lot of these algorithmic models do do these kinds of things where they... They use n+1, you know, a lot... you know what I'm saying. And so you're associated naturally with the next person closest to you, and that's not always the right thing to do, right? So, in some ways, and so I'm positing just little bit of a new idea here, you're creating some policies, whether you're being, and we were just talking about this, but whether you're being implicit about them or explicit, more likely you're being implicit because you're just you're summarily deciding. Well, okay, I have just decided in the credit score example, that if you don't have a good credit threshold... But where in your policies and your corporate policy did it ever say that people of lesser financial means should be excluded from being able to have good car insurance for... 'cause now, the same goes with like Facebook. Some people feel like they're going to have to opt of of life, I mean, if they don't-- >> (laughs) Opt out of life. >> I mean like, seriously, when you think about grandparents who are excluded, you know, out in whatever Timbuktu place they live, and all their families are somewhere else, and the only way that they get to see is, you know, on Facebook. >> Go back to the issue you raised earlier about "Somebody read my email," I can tell you, as a person with a couple of more elderly grandparents, they inadvertently shared some information with me on Facebook about a health condition that they had. You know how grotesque the response of Facebook was to that? And, it affected me to because they had my name in it. They didn't know any better. >> Sometimes there's a stigma. Sometimes things become a stigma as well. There's an emotional response. When I put the article out about why I left IBM to start this new AI Truth nonprofit, the responses I got back that were so immediate were emotional responses about how this stuff affects people. That they're scared of what this means. Can people come after my kids or my grandkids? And if you think about how genetic information can get used, you're not just hosing yourself. I mean, breast cancer genes, I believe, aren't they, like... They run through families, so, I-- >> And they're pretty well-understood. >> If someone swabs my, and uses it and swaps it with other data, you know, people, all of a sudden, not just me is affected, but my whole entire lineage, I mean... It's hard to think of that, but... it's true (laughs). >> These are real life and death... these are-- >> Not just today, but for the future. And in many respects, it's that notion of inclusion... Going back to it, now I'm making something up, but not entirely, but going back to some of the stuff that you were talking about, Carl, the decisions we make about data today, we want to ensure that we know that there's value in the options for how we use that data in the future. So, the issue of inclusion is not just about people, but it's also about other activities, or other things that we might be able to do with data because of the nature of data. I think we always have to have an options approach to thinking about... as we make data decisions. Would you agree with that? Yes, because you know, data's not absolute. So, you can measure something and you can look at the data quality, you can look at the inputs to a model, whatever, but you still have to have that human element of, "Are you we doing the right thing?" You know, the data should guide us in our decisions, but I don't think it's ever an absolute. It's a range of options, and we chose this options for this reason. >> Right, so are we doing the right thing and do no harm too? Carl, Cortnie, we could talk all day, this has been a really fun conversation. >> Oh yeah, and we have. (laughter) >> But we're out of time. I'm Rebecca Knight for Peter Burris, we will have more from MIT CDOIQ in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

from Boston Massachusetts it's the cube covering wtg transform 2018 brought to you by Winslow technology group welcome back I'm Stu minimun and you're watching the cube at wtg transform 2018 happy to welcome to the program two gentlemen from the Boston Architectural College to my left is Carl Jasperson who is the systems administrator and to his left is Jason O'Brien who's the director of IT gentlemen thanks so much for joining us thank you for having us all right so Jason why don't we start with you help us power up this conversation to tell us a little bit about the college so Boston Architectural college we started in the late 1800s it's a small design at school and we offer programs in landscape interior and traditional architecture yeah so I love that to talk to a little bit more about you know that the charter of the school and how IT fits into that so we we are a mission of the schools to provide excellent education to a diverse population technology factors in is very important and over the last ten years the Carll I've been at the school technology has use has increased immensely our students are using it more and more every year and meeting those needs has become you know difficult and it's a challenge we we strive to achieve every year well Design Thinking is is so important these days I I studied engineering as an undergrad in which I've learned more about design one of my favorite authors so I have an interview about a month ago Walter Isaacson you know the ones he studies are the ones that can take that design thinking and technology and bring them together Carles bring us up to speed on from from the IT standpoint you know how big of a team do you have what are you involved with I said you know things have been changing over the last few years yeah so I mean we've got Jason in addition to running the department he runs our online learning system I'm responsible for all the backend its infrastructure servers networking backup virtualization we recently hired a junior systems administrator to help me out we've got a web guy we've got a DBA to the woodshop is under IT because we have a fabrication guy so 3d printing laser cutting we have the help desk and the help desk manager who also does our purchasing and she and I will take escalations so it's there's not a lot of crossover you know skill crossover in the group but we managed to keep everything going yeah but as you said they've been you know woodworking not something you think of in Italy as you know an IT thing IT an OT or you know really converging a lot when you talk about manufacturing as you know we talk about sensors and IOT it's it's hitting everywhere yeah for us you know 3d printing and laser cutting and we also have a CNC router they all started as experiments at the school and have turned into a major factor in for our students it's a resource that they demand and the increasing use every single year and how we meet those demands is is becoming tricky to accomplish in our you know we're in the Back Bay real estate is very expensive and we have to make our space do amazing things Jason that's great points I mean I've talked to lots of higher education and even you talk to the K 2 through 12 it was you know what mobility has had a huge impact you know therefore stresses and strains on wireless you know how do I get devices into the classroom how do I manage it I had gentleman from bu who's here at the show last year we were talking a lot about MOOCs so you know it's that that role of i TS but it's expanding but luckily they're throwing way more money at you I'm sure well we've been flat headcount over the last eight years we lost someone last year and gain someone this year so you know we we basically have to do more with less every year like most IT departments so you know we've we redesign our spaces periodically to meet those our students needs you know and turn returning what was labs just computer labs into more flexible space where students are can move the tables around and you the computers are available sometimes there we have high end alien wares in a in a cabinet they pull out news or they can use it to make models we have they can put up their designs on a 3d TV they're using VR headsets to walk around their own designs it's really fascinating where the technologies okay I wish we could spend more time anywhere in VR stuff and everything like that our production crews gamers my son's into this stuff but but Karl I'm hearing things like space constrained we need to do more with less we need to simplify this environment wow that seems like a really good set up for kind of infrastructure modernization so how long have you guys been there about 10 years right yeah so it's a change don't want one in ten years so walk us back 10 years ago and give us that point when you went to modernize yeah well when we started there's no virtualization 3 server racks in a room in the basement for 10 years that we've been there there's been water in that room twice so that always gave us the warm fuzzies you're saying it wasn't water cooling I mean no we tried for that but it didn't you know it didn't work out last year we moved to Colo facility in Summerville so and by the time we did that move yeah we did we started virtualization with VMware like three five within a year or two of me starting and the racks got you know less and less full and now in the fall we rolled out VX rail and we're in a single rack in a data center and there's I think three physical servers in that rack that aren't the VX rail at this point so it's it's consolidation power savings stuffs in a much better physical location than it used to be moving that server room out we were able to free up that space for you know the students to be able to have it's a it's a meditation space now so it's it's been really interesting kind of going through all that great what I wanted you know we don't have a ton of time but let's talk about that VX rail was your team were you looking for HCI was it you know just time for a server refresh you know what what kind of led to that was there a specific application that you started with so this event two years ago we saw Brian from bu give this presentation on their tan and that really turns us on to the whole hyper-converged option we we worked with Winslow we actually talked to another vendor and we looked at Nutanix we looked at pivot three we looked at rolling our own you know visa non FX 2 and after kind of comparing everything and seeing the pros and cons VX rail made the most sense from management perspective and a price perspective our old cluster was coming up on the five-year mark things were going out of warranty we had ecologic sand with 7200 rpm drives one gig I scuzzy just flow for most of its life we were just doing lightweight servers and applications two years ago we needed to virtualize our database server and we threw her Knicks in there with 800 gig on VM e drives and that was a great stopgap but you know we we needed something more permanent more robust - that's how we got to be X ray from a management standpoint the hyper-converged model gave us more flexibility it's easier to expand and since we're small we're not talking about you know racks and racks working together ryote you started with just three hosts so from a overview standpoint it's easy for us as we grow to just add another node and we get the compute we get the storage and we get the memory all at once as an expansion so it's the model is just fantastic for our workload that we put on it we've got like 70 servers in there the only stuff that's not in there yet is our student file server and exchange and they're going in there in the next six months yeah yeah good great and that's so so it sounds like you're real happy with the solution you've been with Dell for four years so from an Operations standpoint was there you know a lot of steep learning curve or was this pretty straightforward and very easy I mean I was I was already really familiar with the VMware piece going into this so that you know that wasn't a big deal we were already on Ruby sphere 6 and we started in the it's row of B so 6px role manager is it's kind of a stupid easy interface you know you can go in you can see are there alerts is there an update you know can it see my hardware is all that good there's not a whole lot to learn from there if we were doing V San on our own my understanding is that some a lot more complicated to stand up once you have it going you're good until you try to make a change so the VX rail manager extract abstracts all that away and just kind of gives you the the VMware experience that you're used to yeah any commentary on the economic service you know we actually found it was very interesting because our original assessment of our own needs were there was no way we could afford all flash and we started we focused exclusively on hybrid solutions and after a certain point we saw I think a presentation from Rick on the external platform and we saw the VX rail as inline dedupe and compression with the all flash and we thought wait maybe we could make this work with all flash and so we actually had a very slight reduction in RAW storage in our new platform but the percentage that we're actually consuming is far less than on our old platform simply because of those gains and it is the performance is far far faster and it's a we've just been very pleased with the implementation from a cost perspective the all-flash VX rail came in under the hybrid pivot 3 and the hybrid Nutanix products so you know we it was a huge win from that perspective we were shocked we could be able to do it thrilled with it ok final word it sounds like you're real happy with the solution when it smoothly operates well economics were good what final takeaways would you give for your peers I mean I'd say the implementation was you know the VX rail platform the the installation is as advertised it was it's basically a wizard that walks you through the installation process the very few minor issues we encountered the winslow team and the is EMC no support support people had no problem solving for us it was really a pretty easy migration to the new platform and we were able to do it with essentially zero downtime yeah awesome well gentlemen thanks so much for joining that's the promise is to get that easy button for IT HD I definitely helping to move in that direction next time we'll get to talk a little bit more about cloud and everything like that be back with lots more coverage here from wtg transform 2018 I'm Stu minimun thanks for watching the Q

(techno music) >> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE. We are live in San Francisco at the AWS Summit. We have a great day so far. I'm Lisa Martin, with Jeff Frick, and we're really excited to be joined next by ThingLogix, Carl Krupitzer from ThingLogix, welcome to theCUBE. >> Carl: Thank you. >> Tell us all about ThingLogix What do you guys do? And how do you work with AWS? >> Sure, so we're an IoT platform and solutions company. So we've actually helped customers design, develop, and deploy, and bring to market, IoT solutions and connected products. >> How long have you been, and tell us a little bit about your history. There's an Amazon tie in. >> Carl: There is. >> That kind of predates ThingLogix. >> Carl: Right. >> Give us a little bit of insight about that. >> So we were actually the services and solutions group with inside of a company called 2lemetry. And that was eventually purchased by Amazon and became the AWS IoT platform. So our DNA of our company goes back to the very beginnings of what is now the AWS IoT service. >> Excellent, and so you were founded in 2014? >> 2014, we spun out from 2lemetry. And we did so because we were working with a few big customers that really, we saw an opportunity to help companies really kind of figure out what to do with IoT and accelerate their adoption of IoT inside of the enterprise. >> So there's a consulting arm as well as a technology lead. >> Right, right. So we have our professional services, and our advisory services group that works with customers, really to get them through the idea phase, and then we offer a technology platform that is ThingLogix's foundry, that really is a platform that sits top of all the underlying AWS serverless compute resources. >> So IoT's a big space. GE's in it, everybody's in it. You're a little company. >> Carl: Yeah. >> So what's interesting is, both from an entrepreneurial point of view, as well as just, you know, punching above your weight, how does working kind of in the AWS eco system, both as for your own infrastructure, but also as for go to market and partnership, enable you guys to really do punch above your weight. >> You know, it's a big challenge when you start getting into a partner eco system, like AWS. The thing that sets us apart, really, is that we are very much a pure play, serverless, computing company. From the ground up, we built our own infrastructure that way, we built our own platform that way, and it allows us to be a lot more agile and creative with our customers. It allows us to move much faster and more cost effectively than a lot of other system integrators. >> Right, and you said before we turned on the cameras, that too, it also though, gives you these partnership opportunities with less pure plays. >> Carl: Correct. >> To insert you into potentially a bigger project for that piece that you guys can deliver better than anybody else. That's a pretty unique opportunity. >> Right, yeah. So us partnering with some of the bigger systems integrators is pretty standard practice for us because we can come in and we can work with the the business on really prototyping and innovating quickly. Get us, getting the rapid application development side of things done, and then transition that over to the more managed services oriented firms to take on board. >> Right. And can you imagine trying to do what you're doing without a big infrastructure provider, a big marketplace partner? >> No, it would be nearly impossible. Just to, IoT is fast-moving technology trend. It's been around for a while, in the M to M space. Typically, it's been controlled by the engineering side of house. What we're seeing now is that it's migrating more over to the product management and marketing folks. So they're expecting the same agility that you get with platforms like Salesforce, platforms like Workday. They want that same thing in their product development lifecycle. We've been able to help customers take projects from concept and prototype, through to actually in stores, in the market in about nine to nine weeks, nine to twelve weeks. >> Jeff: Wow. >> So I was just thinking, as you guys were chatting about what the consulting services are like. Give us an example of a typical customer, and you kind of just did, where they, are you talking to retailers that have IoT products to sell, you mentioned, kind of more of a bind center, maybe within products and marketing. So I was just wondering kind of, what is that typical customer like, and what sort of questions have they come to you with? Is it more of an idea that we need to get to market, or is it more of a, we have all of these devices at the edge that we sort of need to-- >> It's a combination, right? We deal a lot with consumer product companies that are trying to enable or connect an existing product or an existing line of products. And they're doing so, not for the engineering purposes, but more to get a better customer experience, and a more timely customer experience, right? Being able to connect with their customers in new and different ways. We're also seeing quite a bit of migration from legacy systems like Exeda or In-House Solutions to the AWS cloud. Really this idea of cloud first architecture, has taken root in the enterprise. And it's been happening over the last 10 years, and I think it's really starting to pay off because companies are looking for a reason not to go to the cloud, versus a reason to go to the cloud. And IoT with the AWS platform and serverless compute resources, really, it takes away all those reasons why you wouldn't. >> [Convention Intercom] Ladies and Gentlemen, don't forget to stop-- >> Lisa: Oops, we'll pause for a-- >> The big voice from above, right. >> Pause for an announcement. >> [Convention Intercom] Get a t-shirt. >> Get a t-shirt. >> Oh, a t-shirt. >> Get a t-shirt. >> I don't want to miss out on that. So just wanted to ask you, give us some ideas of how customers are using the services. I was looking at your webpage, I'll open it back up, and as a pool owner, I though, oh, pool energy. I think I need that. Give us an idea of a company like that. Was this an idea that has really been enabled by what you provide? >> Sure, we've seen companies really try to evolve some of the products, some of their commodity products into more of a smart service, right? When AWS IoT launched, we led with a company called Sealed Air. And they were actually investigating, they make commodity chemicals and cleaning equipment, and things like that. And they were looking for new and different ways to really add value to their products. So we came out, helped them prototype and come out with a connected hand soap dispenser, which seemed kind of silly at the time, but when you start looking at the secondary uses of the data, it allowed them to really start to hone in on hand sanitation compliance, and really kind of start to wrap a reduction of foodborne illness around this one connected device. And as we started to extend that, we started to get into auto-replenishment, we started to get into consumption billing, so they can actually, companies can now take a piece of equipment, put it out to a customer with less capital investment, and charge per hour of use, or per thing that happens on that machine, right? So we're seeing a lot of evolution of business models. People trying to do different things. And it comes down usually to make money or save money, right? >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Companies that want to make money are going down a path of really that enhanced customer experience, companies that want to save money are really looking for efficiencies in field service and warranty claims, and in waste reduction. >> Right. I'm curious though, on kind of the secondary value of the data. >> Carl: Right. >> Was that something they kind of thought about ahead of time, that maybe we'll be able to get? >> Carl: No, no. >> Or was it something that kind of came along. Because clearly, auto-replenishment, right, that's a easy, and billing by consumption, that's not brain surgery. But it's the secondary stuff that really becomes the essence of digitizing your business. >> Carl: Right. >> And I think the hand sanitizer's a really interesting example, because who would ever think there's a digital play beyond the obvious in hand sanitizer. >> Right, right. And what it allows them to do is focus in on behaviors of people that you could never measure otherwise. It would be very difficult to sit in the deli all day long and watch whether or not every employee washes their hands a correct amount of time, but we can really easily take a look across an entire supermarket chain and pick out who the outliers are, and then focus the efforts on training those individuals, and really enhancing the compliance of that. >> So does it pick up their ID tag when they're in proximity to the hand sanitizer? >> Carl: Well, see there are a lot of privacy concerns. >> Right, right. >> The use would be more, take a look at the aggregate of the data and just say, "That one is completely out of norm from the others. >> Jeff: Right, right. That's great, though. >> That's amazing, you again, wouldn't really think of that, but to your point, that does really kind of underscore just one of the important elements that businesses need to consider when digitizing. It's new business opportunities, new revenue streams, cost optimization, and that is a really, kind of a, I don't know, maybe it's not a unique example, the hand sanitizer example, of the other elements in which that business was able to get into by having this secondary look, or maybe a completely different look at the data. >> Yeah, and it's, as IoT really starts to serve those other masters besides the engineering and R and D folks, the marketing people are asking completely different questions than the technology people have been asking, which is why we're being pressured to move so quickly, beause as the creativity starts to enter in to this technology trend, they're expecting results immediately versus having to wait nine months, and spend millions of dollars-- >> It was interesting, in Andy's fireside chat, Buzzword Bingo, he said the buzzword that's delivering on its promise the fastest, in his opinion, was IoT. I was totally caught by surprise. Of all the different things, I would never have guessed that he would pick IoT, but you're right at the leading edge of this stuff, and it's moving faster than probably people probably give it credit for. >> The tough part about IoT is it's so huge, right? >> Jeff: Right. >> There's so many different flavors of it. GE has the industrial IoT that they're chasing after, the consumer products tends to be, right now, it's a trend. They connect everything from toothbrushes to whatever. But the idea being that having this connected product, can either enable new customer experiences, drive new business models, or help drive efficiencies in an organization, is really the fulfillment of that promise. >> Jeff: All right. >> From the culture perspect, I'm just curious, you're small right now, one of the things, too, that Andy talked about that I thought was interesting, was he was starting to talk about the culture of AWS. One of the things that they've been very vocal about is, they're very customer centric. They rarely talk about competition. How is that being a partner and being in the marketplace, with one of the announcements today, that's making it even simpler. Do you feel that, as a partner with them, that being in this marketplace, does their culture kind of permeate through that and help you open doors, like we talked about a minute ago, with other partners? >> Oh, they're fantastic. It's a great partner program just because they're super collaborative with even small partners like us. We had, maybe a little bit different experience coming into Amazon, because we ame with a little bit of knowledge of what they were already dealing with, but they've been really responsive and helpful, and it's, being in the marketplace is going to change the game for us because it offloads a lot of the things that we don't want to do, as we make the move more toward providing a platform as a service. They will take over the billing, and the distribution, and the management of, and customer, more so, than a small company like us would be able to do. So I think it enables a small company to get a greater reach than it would for normal, normally distributed. >> Excellent. Well, Carl, thank you so much for joining us-- >> Carl: Thank you. On theCUBE today, and sharing with our audience, a little bit about ThingLogix. We wish you continued success. >> Thank you. >> In connecting more and more devices globally. >> Carl: Thank you. >> For my co-host, Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching us live on theCUBE, at AWS Summit, San Francisco. Stick around, we'll be right back. (techno music)

no from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem sponsors now your hosts John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back everyone we are live in San Francisco moscone north lobby at vmworld 2015 this is the cube silicon angles flagship program we go out to the events and extract the scene from the noise i'm john furrier the founder still gonna enjoy my coach dave vellante co-founder Wikibon calm research our next call our next guest is called shabaab the president and c-e-o chief opera offer vmware welcome back to the queue great to see you John Dave thanks for having me it's always good to spend time with you every vmworld we sit here it's great to have you but this year a little change of plans you did the opening keynote so were you nervous I mean usually it's girl singer it's the big stage and yeah you're the top note your peeps come on yeah i mean i don't i don't necessarily get that nervous anymore i mean if you don't have a little bit about it flies in your belly then you're not excited about doing it so it's more the nervousness about get going getting out there i mean when you first walk out and you see 20,000 sets of people looking at yeah you're like okay game on let's get going I'd like to set up this year like how you set the table up for Pat today's big great presentation but you laid out i'll c vm foundation you got vm women's thing going on today at four o'clock at them at the marriott you have a lot of product announcements kind of the blocking and tackling of the success so share with us some of the highlights because everyone's like who are whores the old school at what's not what nothing really new here and then the new folks to be in world like refresh wow a lot of new stuff here so yeah so i think it's a new stuff you know being a you know an old veteran here at vmware of more than 13 years i think it's just so exciting is how the company continues to you know innovate time and time again and we use vmworld as to showcase to be able to do that you know things that stand out for me right now is how you if you look back over time there's been a whole bunch of different technologies and companies that we're going to put vmware out of business and you come to vmworld and at first it starts with coneqtec then it's hyper-v then it's zen then it's kvn then it was OpenStack now it's containers and just watching vm we're how we think about the future make sure we embrace these new technologies that move the market forward is something we're quite proud of them we don't always view all of these things as big competitive threats we look at them as market extension opportunities for us and they all run on the same platform that we've brought to market for the mass many years so I you know and then we have some great events we have we have a vm women's conference we do every year at you know showing our diversity and we're really focused on that a lot internally at the company and then there's many events i just left we have a cio conference this year that's being hosted by our by our cio bass kire that's going really well with 40 different CIOs and we just you know keep thinking of different ways to be innovative at this conference time and time again not only technologically about how we engage with our people yeah I gotta say this year I that stands out for me as well and all some illustrations for me is one Pat's keynote today really thinks a long view of perspective because that's the tam is bigger it's not about short-term results and all this Elliott capital converses are on the Federation which is noise to the bigger picture which he basically just kills that conversation when out here's look at the future this yeah we're going after and then you got tactical stuff like DevOps which is kind of down in the trenches yeah so that's interesting that's so to me that's the highlight of for me this week so I got to ask you with that going on you're out leading the teams that actually talk to customers yes so how do you now take the vision that Pat laid out and you get the Federation construct how do you do in those deals how's everything working with VMware get some give us some data on what's going on with the with the sales the customers the deployments of solutions yeah so again yeah you know we did lay out a great vision at vmworld again this year and if you look at how we're addressing the market we're really now talking to multiple audiences where if you go back five years ago we talked to a single audience and as we engage with our customers we're talking to you know if you will the core VMware virtualization folks but now we're talking to networking teams we're talking to security we're talking to the line of business who is driving IT and we're also engaging as you said John with the developer community and one of the things that we've been focused on is not only going after those audiences but may making sure the core IT is become relevant to these next generation type of people that want to leverage our infrastructure and you know with our vision we now can turn over our vision to our core customers and say you now can internally market yourself as someone who's capable of running your legacy environment and looking at the future as well and I think that's really playing out here in the show this year and then the other area is just with nsx nsx and we showed the picture of a bullet train with it with you know this thing taking off and going extremely fast yesterday at the financial analyst meeting we had and i can tell you and just watching i just walked through the show floor over there and you go to the vmware booth in the one section that is jam-packed every time you go there is around nsx so John I'd say these customer engagements and conversations have expanded from pure virtualization to the cloud people to security and a lot of that as around NSX and then in one lasting dave is it's just our end user computing strategy I think at the conference last year we said what a difference a year makes an end-user computing in 2014 in 2015 I'll say it again what a difference a year makes we've come so far the acquisition of AirWatch has put us on the forefront of everything going on and both not virtualizing existing desktops but the world of mobility so our strategies coming together and i will tell you you talk to customers at the show they're seeing it real time well what a difference five years makes especially in that business if it's a win a 180 in that hole and use a computer space so you're talking about these different opportunities and it ties into the TAM expansion that you guys lay it out a couple years ago actually your strategic plan the reason i like talking yukos because you you're the executive who's most responsible for running the business i listen to the conference calls when I can or i read the transcripts and you know paddle give the high-level jonatha will give you the tax rates and then it comes out of carl won't you take that because you know that the business you're the executive who really isn't responsible for that and the big theme of these last you know several calls has been you know years now a couple years diversifying beyond the beyond the core of vSphere and you you're beginning to do that in a big way v san NSX vCloud air management so I wonder if you could talk about that Tam expansion and the business and how you feel about that in the momentum yeah I think one of the statistics we share on the hearings call every quarter is how our business has evolved over the years in the statistic we always use is what percentage of our business comes outside a stand alone if you will naked vSphere sales and now we're up over sixty percent of our business you know up from I think just three years ago or was only thirty percent of our business so we continue to evolve and make sure we're selling all these products the exciting part is we have all these solutions Dave at the same time when when you're thinking about from a go-to-market perspective we have to really figure out where to prioritize and how we enable our sales force to be capable of now catching all these great solutions and products we have to take to market so we've spent a lot of time on evolving and transforming our sales force to be capable of selling multiple solutions into the market but it goes way beyond Dave quite frankly our sales force it also goes to our channel as you know it just walked out solutions exchange over there you see you know 400 plus you know customers partners and ecosystem folks there they're all working with us and we have to make sure that they can move with us as quickly as we want to move as we bring these things to Marcus so it's um it's not easy I think we're doing quite well in the evolution of our go-to-market in how we're selling but it's something we're going to have to keep working on especially as you go into cloud and you have different licensing models whether it's a perpetual a subscription model or term model there's a whole bunch of things we have to do different and I think we're doing it well and the customers want that that choice but I'm glad you brought up that point because it's a great opportunity for you especially as your enterprise agreements come up for renewal now you can sell other services like bananas and bunches but it's complicated and and what I'm hearing from you is it's really the ecosystem power that allows you to do that yeah and and as well some hard work and training and the like yeah absolutely Dave in yo we do have you know use the enterprise license agreement as a vehicle and how we engage with our customers and as they come up for renewal the great news is we have a framework in place and now we have the opportunity as we continue to innovate bring more more are these products into the renewal and hopefully make them bigger as the years go on so Carl Pat said in this keynote sound but I picked up on referencing clouds can we all can't we all get along kind of like playing with that kind of phrase everyone kind of throws around so I want you to comment on that and then I want to share tweet with you then I'm going to ask you a sales motion question with how you guys are handling your sales motions with your customers in terms of the value proposition someone tweeted it's no longer the big beating the small it's the fast beating the slow get agile with VMware one cloud so one cloud any device are any on cloud and any device yeah is the key message so let's start with the cloud question first can't we all get along I think in some sense we can and we are getting along in another sense we're competing I mean this is a cooperative world we live in or I call it frenemies we're friends and enemies simultaneously it's just the world we live in an IT today and if you look at it through the lens of VMware the one thing we've said time and time again is we're going to give our customers freedom flexibility and choice I articulated this during my keynote yesterday morning and and really it's this whole notion of letting our customers choose who they partner with how they partner with them and then look to VMware and say will you still engage and we're doing that an example in the cloud space VMware obviously can run on premise with our private cloud and we can run our customers workloads in our vCloud air cloud itself or one of our partners but at the same time we'll look at our customers and say you know what if you want a provision any of your workloads and run them in an amazon cloud in a microsoft azure cloud or any other cloud out there will be the provisioning letter through what we call cmp cloud management platform and that's what helped us emerge to be the number one cloud management platform player in the industry so it's not necessarily we have to directly engage with with some of our competitors in a cloud space but we also look at our customers say hey they have great clouds we're not going to have one big homo genius cloud there's going to be many college there's going to be a heterogeneous set of infrastructure people want to use and we're going to allow them to do that but we're going to be the orchestrator of just a drill down on that the word engineering came up in Pat's cube conversation earlier today talking about cloud how cloud be many things to many people hybrid cloud is just a kind of like this should be the computing it's the outcome of engineering efforts and every customer is a different use case get workloads exactly so given that piece there that is where the resource piece comes up the unlimited resource so is that the key driver for your philosophy of in many clouds that hey let the customers engineer what they want per se is that kind of what you're getting at what we're saying is we know the customers who want to leverage many clouds out there I mean whether and it's not just infrastructure-as-a-service clouds its past clouds platform as a service and it says whether it's sales force or box or you know any of the others and we're saying we know they're going to want to use them at the same time we look at our customers and say listen we've been on a journey you know and we say we've been on a journey for the last 10 years together and there's probably no one who's provided more value right or more economic return in the data center than VMware in the last 10 years it's a rhetorical question and I'll ask customers that and they'll say yeah you're probably right and then I say it's not if it's when you're going to use a public cloud and they'll say yes and then I'll say well why don't we go on another decade long journey and make sure that exactly how you run your environment today we give you a safe passage way to go to the cloud not if but when you want to go there with the same operating model with the same tooling in the same infrastructure and when you have that conversation with VMware customers are like let's engage and let's go on another journey because I know why you can take me there and that's where our engineering comes in things like long distance vmotion backing up virtual machines in a public cloud so the engineering of what we're doing is deeply integrated into our solutions but it doesn't eliminate our customers from using other classes wiki there if I may is that you're enabling your idea giving credibility to the IT organizations that are subtitle those are your peeps right so it's the shadow IT that those guys are trying to avoid and obviously that's the edict of the organization that I t is responsible for so that to me is the key yeah I'm it's a great way to put I mean the thing that's happening now is is that what Pat brought up I want to get your conscious because this comes back your sales touch points out so you have your constituent in IT jobs so Pat said on the cube here he said they did a survey and the DevOps DevOps conference whether you're a developer or in ninety and majority the people were in IT mm-hmm so after you own that's your wheelhouse you have a great install base 10-year journey that's cool you own that so John you call it ops dev but this is nice i see i do the guys who kicked ass with virtualization so we know that exists out there but what's happening now that we're seeing here and i want to see if you guys are seeing it in the field is there's a whole nother pressure point from the app developers yeah that are rolling out massive projects are you guys touching that part of the organization the sales motion are you hearing that from customers thank you know I think the question really is how are we engaging or what are we doing to engage with probably a different set of customers and that's the developers and I would say if you talk to Robin and you talk to the marketing teams we're just reaching out to those developers we haven't historically as you both said really been talking to developers we supplied IT with an infrastructure that then they support the developer community but what you're seeing now is the developers don't believe I can give them what they want and they're going around them to other denture any cloud boat which is exactly why now VMware has a two-prong strategy we're going to go and what we're going to do is we're going to enable IT to remain the platform of choice for the developers but we're also going to go and touch the developers and give them the confidence that they can run on the existing unlimited shadow I teach that is the goal it will always exist I'm sure but for some things but you know it's been our shadow IT is always doing the cubes like it's been are indeed it's like at some point you got to operationalize it absolutely and you know if you think about it when we speak to customers what we want them to be as a service broker we want them to broker infrastructure services past services SAS service and developer services on the most efficient effective way they can run it whether its internal or external clouds and in and we don't want to create a bottleneck because you never want to slow down the speed of innovation from the developer community but if you can somehow funnel and through IT and they can get the confidence I t can get them the resources they want then it's a win-win shadow i t's born out of necessity if you can eliminate the necessity exactly wit everybody wins a crate so final question for me is what are the top conversations that you're having with customers when you know in terms of like look at just from metadata from you on like but what are some of the conversations that are there in the real down-and-dirty conversations with the customers what are they talking about what's their top concerns what's the point every probably three the first is you know the challenge they have with running their legacy data center where seventy percent of IT dollars are spent but also trying to address the needs of the business and devout developer community you know if you will supporting both sides that the divide is actually really hard and they're all struggling with it you talk to any customer of any size they're struggling with it how do you take your brownfield environment and make it capable of handling net new infrastructure of platforming solutions and applications and some of them just build brand new green field data centers and that's how they go forward so that's the first thing that we hear loud and clear from our customers the second is I don't think you know any of them believe the technology is not going to evolve and when we bring this whole notion it's a very big vision of software-defined data center to our customers they all get it and I'm confident we can deliver all the way from Network compute to storage and highly automated that is not their biggest challenge the single biggest challenge we see with our customers to getting massive scale adoption of the software-defined data center it's not technology its people their organizations are aligned on the network team on the compute team on the storage team on the dev ops team and all sudden this crappy company VMware comes in and says we're converging to technologies and now you have a mismatch between your technology organisation so sake for your transformation that people Jennifer mation is actually really hard for them to consume right so it's you know that I'd say that is the single biggest challenge that we see with our customers I'll tell you in our experience the successful organizations are the ones that damn the torpedoes bring in the technology and then figure it out as opposed to trying to figure out the organization because it'll never happen yes Oh work experience is there it's a forcing function exactly and then the third area conversation we're having with our customers you know he's around network virtualization this is you know not it's when and how fast i think we've eliminated the barrier of virtualizing the infrastructure just like we did years ago with you know ESX it took a long time for us to break through that barrier but because we broke through that barrier i think the there's a much more openness to something like that or virtualization because we've already proved it can be done in one component of the data center compute why can't we do it on networking so that's a that's a big discussion point yeah for the folks watching that last point if you look at Pat Gelson's interview he talks about where that hardon line is he sees the evolution so yeah Carl thanks for the insight I know you're super busy you got a lot of things to do your roaming the halls going to all the different events congratulations and thanks for coming on the Cuban sharing your insights thanks for having me appreciate being here every year with you guys great stuff from vmworld 2015 is the cube I'm John furrier with Dave allante live in San Francisco for the Emerald 2015 we'll be right back after this short break

live from San Francisco California it's the queue at vmworld 2014 brought to you by vmware cisco EMC HP and nutanix now here are your hosts John courier and Dave vellante okay welcome back in when we are live in san francisco california at vmworld 2014 is the cube I'm John furry with Dave a lot day our next guest is ecology about the president and chief operating officer VMware welcome back to the queue great to see you thanks for having me again Dave appreciate it looking good the question I want to get get to you right away as vmworld gets bigger and bigger and bigger every year and your job gets bigger and bigger and bigger every year so give us the update on what's going on at the top of VMware obviously operationalizing cloud and with air watch end-user computing I'll see several engine data center you're still on your mission what's the big change or impact to your business yeah so at the top of VMware we've recently announced some realignment of our executive staff and it started with myself patent Jonathan or CFO sitting down and having a conversation and how can we scale our company to be 10 billion dollars from six billion where we're at today so we looked at all of different operational aspects we looked at our go-to-market aspects we looked at the strategy and how we run our M&A business and we decided to break things up and I've now got responsibilities continue to have responsibility for the go-to-market aspects our partner ecosystem and i also have responsibility obviously for marketing's of these events in robin matlock our chief marketing officer and i also recently picked up the responsibility to support our strategy efforts as well as our ma efforts so all of that at the same time and I've given up a few of the operational you know responsibilities I've had and given in the Jonathan's and now Jonathan can really look at the back office and make sure we're built to scale operationally and this is freed pad up than to really focus his efforts and I'm on each of the strategic initiatives we have around the software-defined data center the hybrid cloud and our end user computing components and and it really worked out well the structures work and you know we have a great executive team that really like to work together yeah you got so you got guy running the trains on time in the back office you're watching the chess board has stringing the products together trying to build out the division exactly yeah exactly so I got I got to ask you about just in general the the overall plan with MA for instance obviously AirWatch very successful position pat was kind of glowing about it didn't give specifics certain a lot to do growing market a lot of white space is a lot of new things like docker obviously evo rails and I'll see an end user side before before we get the kind of that vision talk about air watch how is that done can you be specific about some metrics yeah so you know we're very excited about the air watch acquisition obviously it took place earlier this year and you know we've achieved everything we expected to achieve out of that acquisition it's really you know hit its mark based on the business hand when we built as we went into the acquisition and what I'm really excited about now is you know how do we get leverage how do we get economies of scale on leverage ally existing VMware footprint that we have on a global basis to really help bear watch expand deeper into our large accounts and faster internationally so as you could imagine VMware having a large international footprint AirWatch did not we're leveraging our international footprint to get air watch deep into parts of Europe and Asia and Pacific where they haven't been in the past and then the last area leverage we're really excited about is you know it was just last month when we put the air watch product on our price list that now gives not only VMware core sales folks the ability to sell it into the market but also our channel so now our channel has the ability to sell if you will you know all of the air watch products into the market and not just do it themselves in their channels so there's a lot of leverage we're going to get so go to market seems exciting a lot of action going on talk about the name change is obviously there's been some that we've got a decoder ring blog posts were putting together around okay you got you got the air name vCloud air a lot of stuff changing on kind of the nomenclature of some of the what's the rationale behind that was there a method to the madness was it just kind of like just trying to align everything not just water vapor anymore yeah exactly no yeah so we actually have a you know under Robin that like our CMO we have a team that focus on naming and branding and when we looked at all the components we have we actually were getting a little bit disconnect is connected and how we take to market our products their brands in their names so we've decided to streamline everything everything always mark starts with a small D so now we have vCloud air right for you know our hybrid cloud we have V realize which is now our suite of management automation and provisioning tools and operation tools so we just thought it was the right time to do it we had this great event called vmworld to take our new brand and naming conventions into the market and you know everyone seems to be responding quite well to it everyone recognized V something around VMware and we're just trying to streamline that across everything we do so there's some some consistency in our naming because they're not going to call this the VQ I'm actually I'm very open to doing that to hit you are a TM world and if you want to change the name we can make that announcement right now my stag Dave and I will sell right you're running out that I'm just asking I don't run M&A now so you guys pretty much I think nailed the docker positioning obviously this this conference I mean announced a big partnership OpenStack you know there was a lot of buzz about that before these disruptive technologies seem to have a good playbook for saying okay how are we going to address these how are we going to embrace them and how does I was going to help us attack art am so we started to pool the other day though I got to ask you this so who gets to 10 billion first AWS or or VMware so you mentioned how do you get to 10 billion now Behrendt yesterday at the analyst meeting I thought asked a very good question he brought up he basically said this conventional wisdom out here that Amazon is going to rule the world he said I don't I don't agree that said there's at least one other guy that doesn't agree you obviously didn't agree so I want to talk about that it's the one piece that is still hard to understand because you got you know guys like Andy Jassy I'm one end of the world saying okay this is what the world is going to look like and you guys like yourself and pat and joe tucci say no no this is what the world is going to look like and certainly you talk to customers are they are you guys both right you both is one wrong is one right what's your take on it well I obviously can't comment on whether they're right or wrong but I can give you our views and pay nobody really sad right we'll find out in a few years I you know during during the keynote yesterday I thought bill fathers had a great slide to talked about the amount of workloads that are on premise versus the amount of workloads that are off premise in the public cloud and still to this day less than ten percent of the workloads are in the public cloud and even if you look out many years from now there will still be you know less than twenty percent of the workloads in a public cloud so the opportunity still exists in private clouds and on-premise but what we need to do is we need to make sure that we're not locking any customer into a or strategy is it on premise or off premise is a hybrid cloud or as a public cloud or is it only public cloud and hybrid cut it has to be in an strategy that's why we tried to articulate the power of and and that's how we think we're differentiating ourselves in the market so we don't think about it as we're competing against the public cloud providers because we have a differentiated platform we're bringing this hybrid solution to market to what we call hybridity that allows our customers to move workloads you know inside out and outside in and when we pull all that together I think the winner will be the people who can truly deliver a hybrid cloud infrastructure and allow companies to seamlessly and securely federated workloads and move them on premise and off-premise and that's our focus so I like that strategy I mean basically you're saying we're focused on the customers you got about half a million customers now we have half a million customers and fifty million virtual machines under metal the strategies of you if you service those guys you're gonna you're going to do well and I and I buy that at the same time Carl in a way I feel like well you may not be competing with the public cloud AKA amazon your customers in a way are and what i mean by that is there's pressure from the corner office yeah now you have to be their advocate and help drive those costs down you've cited I think yesterday you started but look when it comes to security reliability availability that's where we're going to win that's our spot so my specific question is what do you make for example of the CIA deal a company like Amazon was able to take on a company like IBM and knock them out is that a unique corner case or I wonder if you could give a perspective on that no I think I think as we go forward we're going to see more and more if you all vertical clouds start to emerge you can think of the CIA transaction with AWS as a vertical cloud specifically to serve the CIA you know department and I think you'll see more and more of them emerge in the future and it's a very competitive world that we live in right i mean everyone bid on that except for vmware because we didn't necessarily have our product in the market for the federal government we didn't have our certification to service the federal market but now we will have in the very near future all assertive certifications we need to build a vertical cloud and go and support you know department of defense agencies so i think in the future it's going to be a competitive battleground everyone's going to buy for it but at the same time you know i think you know people can over rotate and say hey they won that and that means they're going to dominate this market this market is still very immature it's growing the majority of the workloads are on premise and I still go back to the fundamentals of the hybrid approach that you talked about to securely and seamlessly move workloads I think you know we're well positioned and but time will tell right and well the average age of an enterprise app I think it's uh almost 20 years one of years those actors gonna disappear overnight yeah no they will not disappear and again just remember that slide from bill father's presentation yesterday I remember it's a lot of DNA from BM worldstar 50 year 2010 when calm originals to CEO he laid out the vision and it's happening maybe Linda different for how you get there pivotal now out separate company yeah I got to ask you the Pat Gelsinger question I get in some comments here and LinkedIn people from my friend John bare ass CMO mint ago who worked at padded Intel people tend to forget Pat led the Intel team that designed for 86 he knows his stuff technically pad certainly as a technical person so Pat's got some time freed up you're doing the MA is Pat yesterday is you guys playing defense or offense of course was packing say offense you know he's an offensive player so did you really think he was gonna say detail I didn't I was actually saying he's an offensive nobody came up in the cube earlier somebody said oh thank you but I said no how had a player that's he doesn't play defense been knowing bad so I'd ask you the same question what is the offense for your plays in strategy go to market for VMware what hills are you going to take down first given your base position you had a lot of clients you're adding value certainly that's cool but as you go out and compete and win what's your offensive strategies so listen the thing we do every year at vmworld as we come out and we go on the offensive right we're a very disruptive you know technology innovative lead company in a very positive way disruption can be viewed negatively but I think we're a very disruptive company in a positive way and what we did this year is we absolutely went on the offensive we looked at the market dynamics we looked at the shift in how people might want to consume technology in the future whether it's open source OpenStack or this whole emergence of the containers that are happening so if you just stop and look at where each of those are at OpenStack is still very immature you're not going to find a lot of people have built big implementations of OpenStack successfully containers right has just emerged in the last if you will six months we're actually recognizing that as a potential market you know movement and we're embracing it so this is an opportunity for VMware to say we're not trying to defend our strategy we're not trying to defend our turf we see containers we see OpenStack as a market expansion opportunity for us and I think one of the things people tend to forget if you go back a decade ago there was many different value propositions around just server virtualization but one of the key ones was it allowed us to break down the silos that existed in data centers for many decades and with virtualization we brought to market a platform that allow people to get easy access to infrastructure in the same form factor so it was a platform play now think about that we broke down the silos a decade ago if we go back in as an industry we start to deploy VMware which most customers have today then all of a sudden now I need to OpenStack environment and let's now think about a container strategy and deploy something like Dockers and you do all on different physical infrastructures you've built a lot more silos and it only makes it that much more complex for our customers and our partners this is why we're now taking to market in a very offensive offensive approach to say support VMware but if you want to run these other things please do so but we believe are the best platform for service delivery that gives consistency and lowers both effects and capex for our customers yeah and you said the consumption is key and this cloud consumption models changing the game on how customers can soon technologies so you're saying hey we want to protect our vmware base but we're going to give them a choice exactly right fictional flexibility a choice is one of our key tenets of our strategy and as our company if you will values so I want to talk about caught I mean it's kind of boring in mundane but when you talk to we have a CIO of San Mateo County coming on one of your customers shortly and there's always a focus on cost when you talk about infrastructure vmware's got a very tough act to follow in it then it's because it it created such a huge cost savings by you know taking all the waste out of much of the waste out of servers so where does that next sort of wave come from there's certainly a lot of innovation going on we're seeing that is it things like hyper convergence what you guys announced this week can you keep that cost curve go is it volume with your you know 4,000 partners I wonder if you could talk about that a little because I'm sure your customers are beating up all the time how do we keep costs going what have you done for me lately Carl yeah absolutely it's a great question so it to your point you know over the last decade we brought our customers a massive amount of capex savings you know you take a hundred widget you consolidate that the tenders an immediate ROI there but you have to remember where you are now not just a computer chua zation company we're a data center automation company and we're taking the core tenants of the cat back savings that we brought many of our customers over the last decade and we're moving from compute and we're doing the same on networking and we're doing the same on storage so if you look at it networking alone right by implementing a technology like NSX as an abstraction in an overlay networking platform you don't need to rip and replace your hardware infrastructures to get network virtualization if you think about our customers who have a whole bunch of servers out there today and a lot of those servers have local did saan them most of them are never being used in VMware environment you're using you know an ass or a SAN storage array around VMware now you implement something like this and you can take advantage of all that unused excess capacity that people already have in the data center that is just three examples of capex savings we're bringing our customers so it's not just that we did it in compute I fundamentally believe we have the opportunity to do the same across the rest of the physical state of the data center now on top of that by implementing you know management automation orchestration and remediation proactive remediation tools across the software-defined data center we know there is massive capex savings and affects a great labor cost acting there you know we can take a server administrator who used to support you know a hundred physical servers now can support 500 virtual machines the optic savings around that is just incredible is the business case greater in your opinion I think with the software-defined data center the business case is even greater going forward because again we're doing it on the server but now network can compute and is the automation tools really start to take shape and form to manage the software-defined data center I think you even drive more value and you know even going back a decade ago everyone thought our play was really catback savings but if you talk to most of our customers why they got massive capex savings even in the early days the amount of affects a savings they got because of how we've implemented our technology and architecture in our data center was even greater than the capex savings so I think when you pull it all together this is a bias statement so i'm going to say i'm biased up front so you can't call me biased but i don't think there's a technology in the last decade or in the next decade that has driven more value both business value as well as Capital savings in the data center than VMware we're out to duty independent I would say the same thing another way Carl I mean it connect the dots there on the effects piece and also you guys do something to find data center hybrid cloud and and use a computer if those things all come home and and and and it happened the way you want you move to your next fail point so I got to bring up the globalization conversation if cloud goes down this path the consumption model will be I want by pay by the drink all surfaces and mobile becomes a huge deal so because globalization outside North America you have different issues data center clouds and I real sovereignty also so what's your take on that you guys have a huge base what's your globalization view in that piece if things start to start to materialize really aggressively you build on your base cloud comes home clouds happen in consumption but is happening what's the global strategy global impact I should say yeah so let me talk about our global strategy and then global impact so first of all vmware is very global if you look at our book of business today you know greater than fifty percent of our business is out in or outside of you know the u.s. and North America right so we're already doing very well internationally and how we go to market and how we're generating revenue across the company what you're talking about as the world becomes more and more global in the context of cloud computing how do we play into that so what we've done is we've taken our vCloud air platform and we said where are the biggest markets in the world for cloud computing it's the u.s. right it's the UK right it's Australia it's Japan it's China and if you look at what we've done is we've built out our own data centers we're addressing probably greater than ninety five percent of the infrastructure as a service market in the world with our vCloud air platform where we're not we allow our partners to do that those 3900 partners that we showcase yesterday on stage cover almost a hundred percent of the cloud opportunity so we're not going to do it ourselves we're not going to be in every country around the world but our 3900 partners are in over a hundred countries and we're servicing the cloud market opportunity directly and indirectly across vCloud air in the vCloud air network getting the hook but i want to get that partner thing is just to kind of get pivot quickly for quick comment on that AUSA to partner networks are huge they care about margin expansion and serving customers what's going on with VMware how's that going for the partners yeah so I guess it depends on which type of partner were talking about but I would say in general you know our partner ecosystem is alive and well and all you need to do is take a few steps down over there and go look at the solutions exchange floor and you'll see every technology company in the world that is either integrated or wishes to integrate with VMware in one capacity or the other and it is our responsibility just like we have over the last decade to bring our ecosystem along with us to enjoy the rich opportunity we see in the mobile cloud era the boots are big the booths are packed v Emeril's rock and i'll give you the final word but the bumper sticker on the show this year as the car drives away at down out of san francisco what's it say about vmware what's going to say in the bumper sticker that's a great question what do you think i should say Pat kelson had a good one brave new IT yeah well that's our motto it's the brave new IT but I actually think what it will say is let's go do it again we've had a hell of a journey with our customers in our ecosystem over the last decade and I say let's go do it again over the next decade and disrupt this market in a very positive way and break innovation and technology to market each in every year Kaiser by president and chief I promise of VMware making moves on the offensive vmworld 2014 we'll be right back with our next guest after this break thanks