>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. It is a cute conversation. >> Everyone. Welcome to this Special Cube conversation here at the Palo Alto Cube Studios. I'm John for a host of Cuba here. Moritz man is the head of the product management team at Open Systems A G. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming in. >> Hey, John. Thanks for having me. >> So last time we spoke, you had your event in Las Vegas. You guys are launching. You have a new headquarters here in Silicon Valley. Opened up this past spring. Congratulations. Thank you. >> Yeah, it's a great, great venue to start, and we set foot on the Silicon Valley ground. So to make our way to >> I know you've been super busy with the new building and rolling out, expanding heavily here in the Valley. But you guys were in the hottest area that we're covering Security Cloud security on premise, security. The combination of both has been the number one conversation pretty much in the cloud world right now. Honestly, besides a normal cloud, native cloud I t hybrid versus multi cloud out. See, that continues to be the discussion I think there's no more debate around multi cloud in hybrid public clouds. Great people gonna still keep their enterprises. But the security equation still is changing this new requirements. What's the latest that you guys are seeing with respect to security? >> Yeah. So, John, what we see is actually that cloud adoption had happens at different speeds. So you have usually the infrastructure of the service. Adoption would happens in a quite controlled way because there's a lift in shift. Do you have your old data center? You you take it and you transferred into azure I W S O G C P. But then there's also uncontrolled at option, which is in the SAS space. And I think this is where a lot off data risk occur, especially the wake off GDP are on where we see that this adoption happens. Maurin a sometimes control, but sometimes in a very uncontrolled way, >> explain that the uncontrolled and controlled expansion of of how security and multi cloud and cloud is going because this interesting control means this this plan's to do stuff uncontrolled means it's just by other forces explain uncontrolled versus controls >> eso controlled specifically means the IittIe team takes as a project plan and aches servers and workloads and moves them in a controlled fashion or in a dedicated project to the cloud. But what happened in the business world of business I t is actually did use those share content at any time with any device at any at any time and in all locations. So this is called the Mobile Enterprise on the Cloud First Enterprise. So it means that the classical security perimeter and the controls in that are my past, actually, by the path of least resistance or the shortest path >> available. And this is the classic case. People use Dropbox with some, you know, personal things. They're at home, they're at work, a p I based software. That's what you're getting at the >> and the issue of this is that that the data that has bean, like contained an pera meters where, you know, as it Caesar, where your data is. This has bean deployed too many edge devices, too many mobile devices, and it's get it gets shared, a nun controlled way. >> We'll get a couple talk tracks would like to drill down on that, because I think this is the trend. We're seeing a pea eye's dominant. The perimeter on the infrastructure has gone away. It's only getting bigger and larger. You got I, O. T and T Edge just and the networks are controlled and also owned by different people. So the packets of moving on it that's crazy so that that's the reality. First, talk track is the security challenge. What is the security challenge? How does a customer figure out what to do from an architectural standpoint when they're dealing with hybrid and multi cloud? So first of >> all, um, customers or BC enterprises try need to re think their infrastructure infrastructure centric view off the architecture's. So the architecture that had been built around data send us needs to become hybrid and multi cloud aware. So that means they need to define a new way off a perimeter, which is in cloud but also in the covering. Still the old, so to say, legacy hyper data center set up, which has the data still in the old data center and at the same time, they need to open up and become the cloud themselves, so to say, and but still draw a perimeter around their data and they users and not and their applications and not so much anymore around the physical infrastructure. >> So taking, changing their view of what a security product is, Is that really what you're getting at? >> Yeah, So the issues with the product point solution was that they fixed a certain part off off a tactile issue. So if you take a firewall in itself, firewall back then it was like a entry door to a big building, and you could could decide who comes out goes in. Now. If the the kind of the walls of the building are vanishing or arm or more FIC, you need to come over the more integrated concept. So having these stacked appliance and stacked security solutions trying to work together and chain them doesn't work anymore. So we think and we see that, >> Why is that? Why doesn't it work? Because in >> the end, it's it's it's hardly two to operate them. Each of those points solutions have their own end off life. They have their own life cycle. They have their own AP eyes. They have their own TCO, as all that needs to be covered. And then there's the human aspect where you have the knowledge pools around >> those technologies. So as an enterprise you have to content to continuously keep the very scar security experts to maintain content continues the depreciating assets running right, >> and they're also in it. We weren't built for tying into a holistic kind of platform. >> Yeah, What we see is that that enterprises now realize we have data centers and it's not accepted reality that you can abstracted with the cloud. So you have You don't own your own servers and buildings anymore. So you have a PAX model to subscribe to Cloud Service is and we think that this has to happen to security to so shift from cap ex to our pecs and the same way also for operational matters >> securities. The service is a crepe is a small I want to ask you on that front you mentioned mobile users. How do you secure the mobile uses when they use cloud collaboration? Because this is really what uses expect, and they want How do you secure it? >> So be secured by by actually monitoring the data where it actually gravitates, and this is usually in the cloud. So we enforce the data that is in transit through, ah, proxies and gators towards the cloud from the endpoint devices, but also then looking by AP eyes in the cloud themselves to look for threats, data leakage and also sandbox. Certain activities that happened. There >> are the next talk talk I want to get into is the expansion to hybrid and multi cloud so that you guys do from a product standpoint, solution for your customers. But in general, this is in the industry conversation as well. How how do you look at this from a software standpoint? Because, you know, we've heard Pat Gelsinger of'em were talking about somewhere to find Data Center S d n. Everything's now software based. You talk about the premiere goes away. You guys were kind of bring up a different approaches. A software perimeter? Yeah, what is the challenge for expanding to multi cloud and hybrid cloud? >> So So the challenge for enterprise and customers we talked to is that they have to run their old business. Gardner once called it by motile business, and it's still adopting not one cloud, but we see in our surveys. And this is also what market research confirms is that customers end up with 2 to 3 loud vendors. So there were will be one or two platforms that will be the primary to their major majority of applications and data gravity. But they will end up and become much more flexible with have running AWS, the old Davis Center. But it was the G, C, P and Azure, or Ali Baba glowed even side by side, right tow cover the different speeds at what their own and the price runs. And >> so I gotta ask you about Cloud Needed was one of the things that you're bringing up that just jumps in my head. And when I got to ask, because this is what I see is a potential challenge. It might be a current challenges when you have kubernetes growing such a rapid rate. You see the level of service is coming online much higher rate. So okay, people, mobile users, they're using the drop boxes, the boxes and using all these FBI service's. But that's just those wraps. As a hundreds and thousands of micro service is being stood up and Tauron down in there, you guys are taking, I think, an approach of putting a perimeter software premieres around these kinds of things, but they get turned on enough. How do you know what's clean? It's all done automatically, so this is becoming a challenge. So is this what you guys mean when you say software perimeter that you guys could just put security around things at any time? Is that explain this? >> Yeah, So? So if you talk about the service match so really mashing cloudy but native functions, I think it's still in the face where it's, I would say, chaos chaotic when you have specific projects that are being ramped up them down. So we draw a perimeter in that specific contact. So let's say you have You're ramping up a lot off cloud a function AWS. We can build a pyramid around this kind off containment and look especially for threats in the activity locks off. The different component is containers, but from from a design perspective, this needs to be, uh, we need to think off the future because if you look at Mike soft on AWS strategy, those containers will eventually move Also back to the edge. Eso were in preparing that to support those models also cover. Bring these functions closer back again to the edge on We call that not any longer the when, ej but it will become a cloud at at actually. So it's not an extension of the land that comes to the data. It's actually the data and the applications coming back to the user and much closer. >> Yeah. I mean, in that case, you could define the on premises environment has an edge, big edge, because this is all about moving, were close and data around. This is what the new normal is. Yeah, So okay, I gotta ask the next question, which is okay, If that's true, that means that kubernetes becomes a critical part of all this. And containers. How do you guys play with that at all? >> So we play with us by by actually looking at data coming from that at the moment. We're looking at this from a from a data transit perspective. We But we will further Maur integrate into their eighties AP eyes and actually become part off the C I C D. Process that building then actually big become a security function in approval and rolling out a cannery to certain service mesh. And we can say, Well, this is safe for this is unsafe This is, I think, the eventual goal to get there. But But for now, it's It's really about tracking the locks of each of those containers and actually having a parent her and segmentation around this service mash cloud. So to say, >> I think you guys got a good thing going on when you talk about this new concept that's of softer to find perimeter. You can almost map that to anything you get. Really think everything has its own little perimeter workload. Could be moving around still in these three secure. So I gotta ask on the next talk Trek is this leads into hybrid cloud. This is the hottest topic. Hybrid cloud to me is the same as multi cloud. Just kind of get together a little bit different. But hybrid cloud means you're operating both on premises and in the cloud. This is becoming a channel most si si SOS Chief admission Security officers. I don't want to fork their teams and have multiple people coding different stacks. They don't want the vendor lock in, and so you're seeing a lot of people pulling back on premises building their own stacks, deploying in the cloud and having a seamless operation. What is your definition of hybrid? Where do you see hybrid going? And how important is it? Have a hybrid strategy. >> So I think the key successfactors of a hybrid strategy is that standards standardization is a big topic. So we think that a service platform that to secure that like the SD when secure service platform rebuilt, needs to be standardized on operational level, but also from a baseline security and detection level. And this means that if you run and create your own work, those on Prem you need to have the same security and standard security and deployment standard for the clout and have the seamless security primary perimeter and level off security no matter where these these deployments are. And the second factor of this is actually how do you ensure a secure data transfer between those different workloads? And this is where S T win comes into play, which acts as a fabric together with when backbone, where we connect all those pieces together in a secure fashion >> where it's great to have you on the Q and sharing your insight on the industry. Let's get into your company. Open systems. You guys provide an integrated solution for Dev Ops and Secure Service and Security Platform. Take a minute to talk about the innovations that you guys were doing because you guys talk a lot about Casby. Talk a lot about integrated esti when but first define what Casby is for. The audience doesn't know what Casby is. C. A S B. It's kicked around all of the security conscious of your new to security. It's an acronym that you should pay attention to so defined casby and talk about your solution. >> Eso casby isn't theory. Aviation means cloud access security we broker. So it's actually becoming this centralized orchestrator that that allows and defines access based on a trust level. So saying, um, first of all, it's between networks saying I have a mobile workforce accessing SAS or I s applications. Can't be it in the middle to provide security and visibility about Where's my data moving? Where's married? Where do I have exposure off off GDP, our compliance or P C. I or he power risks And where is it exposed to, Which is a big deal on it's kind of the lowest level to start with, But then it goes further by. You can use the Casby to actually pull in data that that is about I s were close to toe identified data that's being addressed and stored. So are there any incidentally, a shared data artifacts that are actually critical to the business? And are they shared with extra resource is and then going one step further, where we then have a complete zero trust access model where we say we know exactly who can talkto which application at any time on give access to. But as everything this needs to be is in embedded in an evolution >> and the benefit ultimately goes to the SAS applications toe, have security built in. >> That's the first thing that you need to tackle. Nowadays, it's get your sass, cloud security or policy enforced on, but without disrupting service on business on to actually empower business and not to block and keep out the business >> can make us the classic application developer challenge, which is? They love to co they love the build applications, and what cloud did with Dev Ops was abstracted away the infrastructure so that they didn't have to do all this configuration. Sister. Right? APs You guys air enabling that for security? >> Exactly. Yeah. So coming back to this multi protein product cloud would, which is not keeping up anymore with the current reality and needs of a business. So we took the approach and compared death ops with a great service platform. So we have engineers building the platform. That's Integrated Security Service Platform, which promotes Esti Wen managed Detection response and Caspi Service is in one on the one platform which is tightly integrated. But in the in the customer focus that we provide them on or Pecs model, which is pretty, very predictable, very transparent in their security posture. Make that a scalable platform to operate and expand their business on. >> And that's great. Congratulations. I wanna go back for the final point here to round up the interview for the I T. Folks watching or, um, folks who have to implement multi cloud and hybrid cloud they're sitting there could be a cloud architect that could be an I T. Operations or 90 pro. They think multi cloud this in hybrid club. This is the environment. They have to get their arms around. How? What >> should they >> be thinking about? Around multi cloud and hybrid cloud. What is it, really? What's the reality now? What >> should they be considering for evaluation? What are some of the key things that that should be on their mind when they're dealing with hybrid cloud and all the opportunity around it? >> So I think they're they're like, four key pieces. Oneness. Um, they think they still have to start to think strategic. So what? It's a platform and a partner That helps them to plan ahead for the next 3 to 5 years in a way that they can really focus on what their business needs are. This is the scalability aspect. Secondly, it's a do. We have a network on security, our architecture that allows me to grow confidently and go down different venues to to actually adopt multi clouds without worrying about the security implication behind it. Too much, uh, and to implement it. And third is have this baseline and have this standardized security posture around wherever the data is moving, being at Mobil's being it SAS or being on Prem and in clouds workloads, the fourth pieces again, reading, thinking off where did you spend most of my time? Where do I create? Create value by by defining this framework so it really can create a benefit and value for the enterprise? Because if you do it not right your not right. You will have a way. You will end up with a an architecture that will break the business and not accelerated. >> Or it's made head of product that open systems here inside the Cube studios. Um, great job. Must love your job. You got the keys. A lot of pressure. Security being a product. Head of product for security companies. A lot of pressure before we wrap up. Just give a quick plug for the company. You guys hiring you have a new office space here in Redwood City. Looks beautiful. Give a quick shared play for the company. >> Yeah. So open systems the great company to work with. We're expanding in the U. S. On also, Amy, uh, with all the work force. So we're hiring. So go on our website. We have a lot off open positions, exciting challenges in a growth or into workspace. Andi. Yeah. As you said, security at the moment, it's one of the hottest areas to be in, especially with all the fundamental changes happening in the enterprise and architecture. I d landscape. So yeah, >> and clouds securing specifically. Not just in point. The normal stuff that people used to classify as hot as hot as Hades could be right now. But thanks for coming on. Strong insights. I'm jumping with Cuba here in Palo Alto with more Morris Man is the head of product management for open systems. Thanks for watching.

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security and SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Okay, welcome back, CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here at the Chandelier Bar at the Cosmopolitan Hotel, also known as Cosmo. We're here as part of Open Systems exclusive, expert, influencer and customer party. As part of the overall week going on, Gartner's big event going on. A lot of action. We're here and our next guest is Moritz Mann. He's Chief Product Officer, CPO of Open Systems. Welcome to theCUBE. Thanks a lot. >> Yeah, good evening. >> So you got the keys to the kingdom, the product, the chief product officer has to run all the products. >> Yes, of course. You're in high demand from engineering to marketing. >> And sales of course and the customers. >> Sales, where's the product? Sales blames product, product blames sales. You know, you got to have that relationship if it's harmonious. >> Of course. >> It'll work. >> You guys are successful so it's working. >> Yeah it is and actually I think the most important part in the equation are the customers. I see more of the sales and especially customer success as kind of the gateway towards the customer to actually figure out where can we solve more problems for our customers and then create value. >> Can you step back and explain the value preposition for your product? First, describe the product or products >> Yeah. >> or core products, and the main value preposition. >> Open Systems was founded to, actually solve the key issue of a modern enterprise, which is, helping enterprises to actually master the digital transformation. And digital transformation is like a big, one of those big words, and in action it means that you have enterprises adopting multi cloud environments, connecting different locations cost efficiently, but also securing they keep business processes at the same time, so our solution comes in as a platform approach and would solve these issues by connecting, actually the end users, the business processes with the cloud and the applications and the customers. >> So operations is a big part of your success. >> Yeah, so-- >> Operating, helping operators. >> Exactly, so despite being just another yet appliance vendor, or a product vendor, or infrastructure vendor, we offer our services as a true service solution, which is-- >> Service or server? >> Service, so it's a managed service that you subscribe as a service, you consume as a service, you pay by per user, you don't have to worry about hard work, appliance costs, and actually scaling of these costs and suffer-- >> Yeah, so classic asses model. What problem are you solving for the customer? What's the way you guys are winning, why are they using you guys, why are they buying you? >> Yeah, I think one of the key, what we bring, keys that we bring is alternate key solution that comes with the operation's excellence included and manage operation's part. And one of the key differentiators is that we have an extraordinary security stack, in this SD-WAN platform, so we're not only providing and delivering applications for the users and customers but we are also protecting those applications from threats like ransomware attacks, red actors inside the network, and in the cloud environments. >> Explain the security stack piece, that's build into the SD-WAN product? >> Yeah. >> And that's a glued software you guys wrote? >> Yeah, so we have an OAM, it's like a highly scalable platform that consist of open source components with OM premium components, to do, like a DPI application detection and security threat detection, and these security functions can be enabled by use case, so for instance we have a piece that just, primarily they are to detect any lateral movement to prevent another ransomware attack like Maersk got into. >> So I'm going to ask you a question, I'll put you on the spot. So, I'm a customer. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes, I don't know, I have a problem, I'm a frog in bowling water, whatever the metaphor is, and I got issues. When do I know when to call you? What's happening around me, as a customer, to call up Open Systems to solve my problem? What are some of the symptoms I might see? What does it look like? Is it security sprawl? Are there solutions? Is it just not enough staff? What are some of these symptoms that make me want to dial you guys up? >> Great question. So one of those symptoms is that you notice that your end users are complaining so they have spotty internet, they have slow internet access, or you have SAP applications honors, for instance, that are very unsatisfied about the application's performance inside de WAN, or to the cloud. And you will notice that that's when we will get called and we will help you to actually maximize your network so you can actually focus on your core business, and not about where do I have to scare the infrastructure. >> So, performance is number one. >> It's performance. >> So basic performance stuff, what else? >> It's all about also visualizing and telling where actually do the customers have a good, or end users have a good performance of the network, and where do I have to actually expand and invest in the network and the cloud environment to actually improve customer's performance. >> Okay so here's another one: Hey, Moritz! I already got security covered. Why do I need more security, when? What gives? >> Yeah, I mean, security, you can spend endless money in security and yet have another appliance, and have another product to patch, like a Tect O problem, but you will end up in a growing stack of complexity. We'll provide you with a very strategic solution, that will help you to cover to 80% of your problems and in the end you have a budget of solutions that prevents the most of your threats to your network and to your applications. >> Okay, cool. Thanks for sharing that insight. This is like the customer dynamic. Now I want to get to the innovation piece, so as to when there used to be a bunch of network guys managing QoS, mostly packed stuff, all that good stuff, we kind of knew all that, but as the cloud comes in and as cloud operations and IT operations start to see things, like automation, AI, machine learning, data and all that stuff plays a new role, they're rethinking their architecture, so what innovations are in the horizon that you see coming? That will change the landscape of, as what SD-WAN is, and what it will become. What are the innovation areas to watch in? >> We are working already in the next generation for next year, which will enable our customers to identify any application inside of the network independent where that application is. So, it will be crucial to not think anymore in networks and how many appliances do I have where, but how fast can I get an application up and running in a new cloud. And this is where we are investing a lot, into cloud delivery, cloud integration, especially also with the partnership with Microsoft, we have a API integration to build, and actually launch new applications directly from the cloud but integrated into the SD-WAN, and including also all the security parameters that you need to secure in order to actually have a, not only application running and integrated in the network which is called Intent-Based Networking on the Gartner terms, but also have that secured in terms of business risk protection. >> What's the biggest feature request that you get asked for? Cause you're managing the product team, you're in roadmaps, you're here planning, you're marketing in sales teams, you're listening to customers, what are they asking for, what's your priorities? >> So priorities, foremost is automation and simplification, this are our core aspects in order to keep up with the, actually the new complexity that derives also in the cloud sprawl that's happening. So customers are not launching, one cloud, not two but multiple clouds in parallel, which they ask for, actually orchestration through the network and through integrated through into the cloud orchestration. And secondly, it's the whole Shadow IT, so, where do I have SAS applications I never knew about? How can we protect those applications well, and the data that we upload later too. >> Security surface area is huge. Final question for you, for people that are learning about who you guys are, Open Systems, it's expanding in the US, you're already successful you guys, great revenue, great success in the product side, so congratulations, but for the people that are learning about you, what's the culture like, and what one thing should they know about Open System, that they should know about? >> I think one cultural element that we really bring to the table is, we are unconventional in the way that how we solve customers' problems, and the amount of dedication and passion that we put into delivering the solution. So one of our core pillars is the defaults model, so that means that the engineers that are building that platform, are also at the same time your first year contacts when it comes to service management and support. That truly makes a difference in the customer experience. >> Programmable internet, programmable software, programmable deBAR as well, infrastructure as code, so you guys are like SD-WAN as code. (laughs) >> Exactly, it's similar to that. >> It's a new trend, it's like Blockchain (laughs) >> Exactly. >> You say Blockchain and anything is popular. >> We try to be as simple as that, that's true. >> Moritz, thanks for coming on theCUBE, late night here, this is theCUBE after draw, we are here, this Chandelier launch at the Cosmo, The Cosmopolitan Hotel for CUBE coverage at Open Systems' event for influencers, executives, experts and customers, of course, influencing theCUBE. We'll be back with more after this short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, this is Dave Vellante, and we're here to talk about the massive $61 billion planned acquisition of VMware by Broadcom. And I'm here with Phil Brotherton of NetApp to discuss the implications for customers, for the industry, and NetApp's particular point of view. Phil, welcome. Good to see you again. >> It's great to see you, Dave. >> So this topic has garnered a lot of conversation. What's your take on this epic event? What does it mean for the industry generally, and customers specifically? >> You know, I think time will tell a little bit, Dave. We're in the early days. We've, you know, so we heard the original announcements and then it's evolved a little bit, as we're going now. I think overall it'll be good for the ecosystem in the end. There's a lot you can do when you start combining what VMware can do with compute and some of the hardware assets of Broadcom. There's a lot of security things that can be brought, for example, to the infrastructure, that are very high-end and cool, and then integrated, so it's easy to do. So I think there's a lot of upside for it. There's obviously a lot of concern about what it means for vendor consolidation and pricing and things like that. So time will tell. >> You know, when this announcement first came out, I wrote a piece, you know, how "Broadcom will tame the VMware beast," I called it. And, you know, looked at Broadcom's history and said they're going to cut, they're going to raise prices, et cetera, et cetera. But I've seen a different tone, certainly, as Broadcom has got into the details. And I'm sure I and others maybe scared a lot of customers, but I think everybody's kind of calming down now. What are you hearing from customers about this acquisition? How are they thinking about it? >> You know, I think it varies. There's, I'd say generally we have like half our installed base, Dave, runs ESX Server, so the bulk of our customers use VMware, and generally they love VMware. And I'm talking mainly on-prem. We're just extending to the cloud now, really, at scale. And there's a lot of interest in continuing to do that, and that's really strong. The piece that's careful is this vendor, the cost issues that have come up. The things that were in your piece, actually. And what does that mean to me, and how do I balance that out? Those are the questions people are dealing with right now. >> Yeah, so there's obviously a lot of talk about the macro, the macro headwinds. Everybody's being a little cautious. The CIOs are tapping the brakes. We all sort of know that story. But we have some data from our partner ETR that ask, they go out every quarter and they survey, you know, 1500 or so IT practitioners, and they ask the ones that are planning to spend less, that are cutting, "How are you going to approach that? What's your primary methodology in terms of achieving, you know, cost optimization?" The number one, by far, answer was to consolidate redundant vendors. It was like, it's now up to about 40%. The second, distant second, was, "We're going to, you know, optimize cloud costs." You know, still significant, but it was really that consolidating the redundant vendors. Do you see that? How does NetApp fit into that? >> Yeah, that is an interesting, that's a very interesting bit of research, Dave. I think it's very right. One thing I would say is, because I've been in the infrastructure business in Silicon Valley now for 30 years. So these ups and downs are, that's a consistent thing in our industry, and I always think people should think of their infrastructure and cost management. That's always an issue, with infrastructure as cost management. What I've told customers forever is that when you look at cost management, our best customers at cost management are typically service providers. There's another aspect to cost management, is you want to automate as much as possible. And automation goes along with vendor consolidation, because how you automate different products, you don't want to have too many vendors in your layers. And what I mean by the layers of ecosystem, there's a storage layer, the network layer, the compute layer, like, the security layer, database layer, et cetera. When you think like that, everybody should pick their partners very carefully, per layer. And one last thought on this is, it's not like people are dumb, and not trying to do this. It's, when you look at what happens in the real world, acquisitions happen, things change as you go. And in these big customers, that's just normal, that things change. But you always have to have this push towards consolidating and picking your vendors very carefully. >> Also, just to follow up on that, I mean, you know, when you think about multi-cloud, and you mentioned, you know, you've got some big customers, they do a lot of M & A, it's kind of been multi-cloud by accident. "Oh, we got all these other tools and storage platforms and whatever it is." So where does NetApp fit in that whole consolidation equation? I'm thinking about, you know, cross-cloud services, which is a big VMware theme, thinking about a consistent experience, on-prem, hybrid, across the three big clouds, out to the edge. Where do you fit? >> So our view has been, and it was this view, and we extend it to the cloud, is that the data layer, so in our software, is called ONTAP, the data layer is a really important layer that provides a lot of efficiency. It only gets bigger, how you do compliance, how you do backup, DR, blah blah blah. All that data layer services needs to operate on-prem and on the clouds. So when you look at what we've done over the years, we've extended to all the clouds, our data layer. We've put controls, management tools, over the top, so that you can manage the entire data layer, on-prem and cloud, as one layer. And we're continuing to head down that path, 'cause we think that data layer is obviously the path to maximum ability to do compliance, maximum cost advantages, et cetera. So we've really been the company that set our sights on managing the data layer. Now, if you look at VMware, go up into the network layer, the compute layer, VMware is a great partner, and that's why we work with them so closely, is they're so perfect a fit for us, and they've been a great partner for 20 years for us, connecting those infrastructural data layers: compute, network, and storage. >> Well, just to stay on that for a second. I've seen recently, you kind of doubled down on your VMware alliance. You've got stuff at re:Invent I saw, with AWS, you're close to Azure, and I'm really talking about ONTAP, which is sort of an extension of what you were just talking about, Phil, which is, you know, it's kind of NetApp's storage operating system, if you will. It's a world class. But so, maybe talk about that relationship a little bit, and how you see it evolving. >> Well, so what we've been seeing consistently is, customers want to use the advantages of the cloud. So, point one. And when you have to completely refactor apps and all this stuff, it limits, it's friction. It limits what you can do, it raises costs. And what we did with VMware, VMware is this great platform for being able to run basically client-server apps on-prem and cloud, the exact same way. The problem is, when you have large data sets in the VMs, there's some cost issues and things, especially on the cloud. That drove us to work together, and do what we did. We GA-ed, we're the, so NetApp is the only independent storage, independent storage, say this right, independent storage platform certified to run with VMware cloud on Amazon. We GA-ed that last summer. We GA-ed with Azure, the Azure VMware service, a couple months ago. And you'll see news coming with GCP soon. And so the idea was, make it easy for customers to basically run in a hybrid model. And then if you back out and go, "What does that mean for you as a customer?", it's not saying you should go to the cloud, necessarily, or stay on-prem, or whatever. But it's giving you the flexibility to cost-optimize where you want to be. And from a data management point of view, ONTAP gives you the consistent data management, whichever way you decide to go. >> Yeah, so I've been following NetApp for decades, when you were Network Appliance, and I saw you go from kind of the workstation space into the enterprise. I saw you lean into virtualization really early on, and you've been a great VMware partner ever since. And you were early in cloud, so, sort of talking about, you know, that cross-cloud, what we call supercloud. I'm interested in what you're seeing in terms of specific actions that customers are taking. Like, I think about ELAs, and I think it's a two-edged sword. You know, should customers, you know, lean into ELAs right now? You know, what are you seeing there? You talked about, you know, sort of modernizing apps with things like Kubernetes, you know, cloud migration. What are some of the techniques that you're advising customers to take in the context of this acquisition? >> You know, so the basics of this are pretty easy. One is, and I think even Raghu, the CEO of VMware, has talked about this. Extending your ELA is probably a good idea. Like I said, customers love VMware, so having a commitment for a time, consistent cost management for a time is a good strategy. And I think that's why you're hearing ELA extensions being discussed. It's a good idea. The second part, and I think it goes to your surveys, that cost optimization point on the cloud is, moving to the cloud has huge advantages, but if you just kind of lift and shift, oftentimes the costs aren't realized the way you'd want. And the term "modernization," changing your app to use more Kubernetes, more cloud-native services, is often a consideration that goes into that. But that requires time. And you know, most companies have hundreds of apps, or thousands of apps, they have to consider modernizing. So you want to then think through the journey, what apps are going to move, what gets modernized, what gets lifted-shifted, how many data centers are you compressing? There's a lot of data center, the term I've been hearing is "data center evacuations," but data center consolidation. So that there's some even energy savings advantages sometimes with that. But the whole point, I mean, back up to my whole point, the whole point is having the infrastructure that gives you the flexibility to make the journey on your cost advantages and your business requirements. Not being forced to it. Like, it's not really a philosophy, it's more of a business optimization strategy. >> When you think about application modernization and Kubernetes, how does NetApp, you know, fit into that, as a data layer? >> Well, so if you kind of think, you said, like our journey, Dave, was, when we started our life, we were doing basically virtualization of volumes and things for technical customers. And the servers were always bare metal servers that we got involved with back then. This is, like, going back 20 years. Then everyone moved to VMs, and, like, it's probably, today, I mean, getting to your question in a second, but today, loosely, 20% bare metal servers, 80% virtual machines today. And containers is growing, now a big growing piece. So, if you will, sort of another level of virtual machines in containers. And containers were historically stateless, meaning the storage didn't have anything to do. Storage is always the stateful area in the architectures. But as containers are getting used more, stateful containers have become a big deal. So we've put a lot of emphasis into a product line we call Astra that is the world's best data management for containers. And that's both a cloud service and used on-prem in a lot of my customers. It's a big growth area. So that's what, when I say, like, one partner that can do data management, just, that's what we have to do. We have to keep moving with our customers to the type of data they want to store, and how do you store it most efficiently? Hey, one last thought on this is, where I really see this happening, there's a booming business right now in artificial intelligence, and we call it modern data analytics, but people combining big data lakes with AI, and that's where some of this, a lot of the container work comes in. We've extended objects, we have a thing we call file-object duality, to make it easy to bridge the old world of files to the new world of objects. Those all go hand in hand with app modernization. >> Yeah, it's a great thing about this industry. It never sits still. And you're right, it's- >> It's why I'm in it. >> Me too. Yeah, it's so much fun. There's always something. >> It is an abstraction layer. There's always going to be another abstraction layer. Serverless is another example. It's, you know, primarily stateless, that's probably going to, you know, change over time. All right, last question. In thinking about this Broadcom acquisition of VMware, in the macro climate, put a sort of bow on where NetApp fits into this equation. What's the value you bring in this context? >> Oh yeah, well it's like I said earlier, I think it's the data layer of, it's being the data layer that gives you what you guys call the supercloud, that gives you the ability to choose which cloud. Another thing, all customers are running at least two clouds, and you want to be able to pick and choose, and do it your way. So being the data layer, VMware is going to be in our infrastructures for at least as long as I'm in the computer business, Dave. I'm getting a little old. So maybe, you know, but "decades" I think is an easy prediction, and we plan to work with VMware very closely, along with our customers, as they extend from on-prem to hybrid cloud operations. That's where I think this will go. >> Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right. Look at the business case for migrating off of VMware. It just doesn't make sense. It works, it's world class, it recover... They've done so much amazing, you know, they used to be called, Moritz called it the software mainframe, right? And that's kind of what it is. I mean, it means it doesn't go down, right? And it supports virtually any application, you know, around the world, so. >> And I think getting back to your original point about your article, from the very beginning, is, I think Broadcom's really getting a sense of what they've bought, and it's going to be, hopefully, I think it'll be really a fun, another fun era in our business. >> Well, and you can drive EBIT a couple of ways. You can cut, okay, fine. And I'm sure there's some redundancies that they'll find. But there's also, you can drive top-line revenue. And you know, we've seen how, you know, EMC and then Dell used that growth from VMware to throw off free cash flow, and it was just, you know, funded so much, you know, innovation. So innovation is the key. Hock Tan has talked about that a lot. I think there's a perception that Broadcom, you know, doesn't invest in R & D. That's not true. I think they just get very focused with that investment. So, Phil, I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks a lot, Dave. It's fun being here. >> Yeah, our pleasure. And thank you for watching theCUBE, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(soft music) >> Hello, fellow hardware nerds and welcome back to Dallas Texas where we're reporting live from Supercomputing 2022. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined with the John Furrier on my left. >> Looking good today. >> Thank you, John, so are you. It's been a great show so far. >> We've had more hosts, more guests coming than ever before. >> I know. >> Amazing, super- >> We've got a whole thing going on. >> It's been a super computing performance. >> It, wow. And, we'll see how many times we can say super on this segment. Speaking of super things, I am in a very unique position right now. I am a flanked on both sides by people who have been doing content on theCUBE for 12 years. Yes, you heard me right, our next guest was on theCUBE 12 years ago, the third event, was that right, John? >> Man: First ever VM World. >> Yeah, the first ever VM World, third event theCUBE ever did. We are about to have a lot of fun. Please join me in welcoming Justin Emerson of Pure Storage. Justin, welcome back. >> It's a pleasure to be here. It's been too long, you never call, you don't write. (Savannah laughs) >> Great to see you. >> Yeah, likewise. >> How fun is this? Has the set evolved? Is everything looking good? >> I mean, I can barely remember what happened last week, so. (everyone laughs) >> Well, I remember lot's changed that VM world. You know, Paul Moritz was the CEO if you remember at that time. His actual vision actually happened but not the way, for VMware, but the industry, the cloud, he called the software mainframe. We were kind of riffing- >> It was quite the decade. >> Unbelievable where we are now, how we got here, but not where we're going to be. And you're with Pure Storage now which we've been, as you know, covering as well. Where's the connection into the supercomputing? Obviously storage performance, big part of this show. >> Right, right. >> What's the take? >> Well, I think, first of all it's great to be back at events in person. We were talking before we went on, and it's been so great to be back at live events now. It's been such a drought over the last several years, but yeah, yeah. So I'm very glad that we're doing in person events again. For Pure, this is an incredibly important show. You know, the product that I work with, with FlashBlade is you know, one of our key areas is specifically in this high performance computing, AI machine learning kind of space. And so we're really glad to be here. We've met a lot of customers, met a lot of other folks, had a lot of really great conversations. So it's been a really great show for me. And also just seeing all the really amazing stuff that's around here, I mean, if you want to find, you know, see what all the most cutting edge data center stuff that's going to be coming down the pipe, this is the place to do it. >> So one of the big themes of the show for us and probably, well, big theme of your life, is balancing power efficiency. You have a product in this category, Direct Flash. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? >> Yeah, so Pure as a storage company, right, what do we do differently from everybody else? And if I had to pick one thing, right, I would talk about, it's, you know, as the name implies, we're an all, we're purely flash, we're an all flash company. We've always been, don't plan to be anything else. And part of that innovation with Direct Flash is the idea of rather than treating a solid state disc as like a hard drive, right? Treat it as it actually is, treat it like who it really is and that's a very different kind of thing. And so Direct Flash is all about bringing native Flash interfaces to our product portfolio. And what's really exciting for me as a FlashBlade person, is now that's also part of our FlashBlade S portfolio, which just launched in June. And so the benefits of that are our myriad. But, you know, talking about efficiency, the biggest difference is that, you know, we can use like 90% less DRAM in our drives, which you know, everything uses, everything that you put in a drive uses power, it adds cost and all those things and so that really gives us an efficiency edge over everybody else and at a show like this, where, I mean, you walk the aisles and there's there's people doing liquid cooling and so much immersion stuff, and the reason they're doing that is because power is just increasing everywhere, right? So if you can figure out how do we use less power in some areas means you can shift that budget to other places. So if you can talk to a customer and say, well, if I could shrink your power budget for storage by two thirds or even, save you two-thirds of power, how many more accelerators, how many more CPUs, how much more work could you actually get done? So really exciting. >> I mean, less power consumption, more power and compute. >> Right. >> Kind of power center. So talk about the AI implications, where the use cases are. What are you seeing here? A lot of simulations, a lot of students, again, dorm room to the boardroom we've been saying here on theCUBE this is a great broad area, where's the action in the ML and the AI for you guys? >> So I think, not necessarily storage related but I think that right now there's this enormous explosion of custom silicon around AI machine learning which I as a, you said welcome hardware nerds at the beginning and I was like, ah, my people. >> We're all here, we're all here in Dallas. >> So wonderful. You know, as a hardware nerd we're talking about conferences, right? Who has ever attended hot chips and there's so much really amazing engineering work going on in the silicon space. It's probably the most exciting time for, CPU and accelerator, just innovation in, since the days before X 86 was the defacto standard, right? And you could go out and buy a different workstation with 16 different ISAs. That's really the most exciting thing, I walked past so many different places where you know, our booth is right next to Havana Labs with their gout accelerator, and they're doing this cute thing with one of the AI image generators in their booth, which is really cute. >> Woman: We're going to have to go check that out. >> Yeah, but that to me is like one of the more exciting things around like innovation at a, especially at a show like this where it's all about how do we move forward, the state of the art. >> What's different now than just a few years ago in terms of what's opening up the creativity for people to look at things that they could do with some of the scale that's different now. >> Yeah well, I mean, every time the state of the art moves forward what it means is, is that the entry level gets better, right? So if the high end is going faster, that means that the mid-range is going faster, and that means the entry level is going faster. So every time it pushes the boundary forward, it's a rising tide that floats all boats. And so now, the kind of stuff that's possible to do, if you're a student in a dorm room or if you're an enterprise, the world, the possible just keeps expanding dramatically and expanding almost, you know, geometrically like the amount of data that we are, that we have, as a storage guy, I was coming back to data but the amount of data that we have and the amount of of compute that we have, and it's not just about the raw compute, but also the advances in all sorts of other things in terms of algorithms and transfer learning and all these other things. There's so much amazing work going on in this area and it's just kind of this Kay Green explosion of innovation in the area. >> I love that you touched on the user experience for the community, no matter the level that you're at. >> Yeah. >> And I, it's been something that's come up a lot here. Everyone wants to do more faster, always, but it's not just that, it's about making the experience and the point of entry into this industry more approachable and digestible for folks who may not be familiar, I mean we have every end of the ecosystem here, on the show floor, where does Pure Storage sit in the whole game? >> Right, so as a storage company, right? What AI is all about deriving insights from data, right? And so everyone remembers that magazine cover data's the new oil, right? And it's kind of like, okay, so what do you do with it? Well, how do you derive value from all of that data? And AI machine learning and all of this supercomputing stuff is about how do we take all this data? How do we innovate with it? And so if you want data to innovate with, you need storage. And so, you know, our philosophy is that how do we make the best storage platforms that we can using the best technology for our customers that enable them to do really amazing things with AI machine learning and we've got different products, but, you know at the show here, what we're specifically showing off is our new flashlight S product, which, you know, I know we've had Pure folks on theCUBE before talking about FlashBlade, but for viewers out there, FlashBlade is our our scale out unstructured data platform and AI and machine learning and supercomputing is all about unstructured data. It's about sensor data, it's about imaging, it's about, you know, photogrammetry, all this other kinds of amazing stuff. But, you got to land all that somewhere. You got to process that all somewhere. And so really high performance, high throughput, highly scalable storage solutions are really essential. It's an enabler for all of the amazing other kinds of engineering work that goes on at a place like Supercomputing. >> It's interesting you mentioned data's oil. Remember in 2010, that year, our first year of theCUBE, Hadoop World, Hadoop just started to come on the scene, which became, you know kind of went away and, but now you got, Spark and Databricks and Snowflake- >> Justin: And it didn't go away, it just changed, right? >> It just got refactored and right size, I think for what the people wanted it to be easy to use but there's more data coming. How is data driving innovation as you bring, as people see clearly the more data's coming? How is data driving innovation as you guys look at your products, your roadmap and your customer base? How is data driving innovation for your customers? >> Well, I think every customer who has been, you know collecting all of this data, right? Is trying to figure out, now what do I do with it? And a lot of times people collect data and then it will end up on, you know, lower slower tiers and then suddenly they want to do something with it. And it's like, well now what do I do, right? And so there's all these people that are reevaluating you know, we, when we developed FlashBlade we sort of made this bet that unstructured data was going to become the new tier one data. It used to be that we thought unstructured data, it was emails and home directories and all that stuff the kind of stuff that you didn't really need a really good DR plan on. It's like, ah, we could, now of course, as soon as email goes down, you realize how important email is. But, the perspectives that people had on- >> Yeah, exactly. (all laughing) >> The perspectives that people had on unstructured data and it's value to the business was very different and so now- >> Good bet, by the way. >> Yeah, thank you. So now unstructured data is considered, you know, where companies are going to derive their value from. So it's whether they use the data that they have to build better products whether it's they use the data they have to develop you know, improvements in processes. All those kinds of things are data driven. And so all of the new big advancements in industry and in business are all about how do I derive insights from data? And so machine learning and AI has something to do with that, but also, you know, it all comes back to having data that's available. And so, we're working very hard on building platforms that customers can use to enable all of this really- >> Yeah, it's interesting, Savannah, you know, the top three areas we're covering for reinventing all the hyperscale events is data. How does it drive innovation and then specialized solutions to make customers lives easier? >> Yeah. >> It's become a big category. How do you compose stuff and then obviously compute, more and more compute and services to make the performance goes. So those seem to be the three hot areas. So, okay, data's the new oil refineries. You've got good solutions. What specialized solutions do you see coming out because once people have all this data, they might have either large scale, maybe some edge use cases. Do you see specialized solutions emerging? I mean, obviously it's got DPU emerging which is great, but like, do you see anything else coming out at that people are- >> Like from a hardware standpoint. >> Or from a customer standpoint, making the customer's lives easier? So, I got a lot of data flowing in. >> Yeah. >> It's never stopping, it keeps powering in. >> Yeah. >> Are there things coming out that makes their life easier? Have you seen anything coming out? >> Yeah, I think where we are as an industry right now with all of this new technology is, we're really in this phase of the standards aren't quite there yet. Everybody is sort of like figuring out what works and what doesn't. You know, there was this big revolution in sort of software development, right? Where moving towards agile development and all that kind of stuff, right? The way people build software change fundamentally this is kind of like another wave like that. I like to tell people that AI and machine learning is just a different way of writing software. What is the output of a training scenario, right? It's a model and a model is just code. And so I think that as all of these different, parts of the business figure out how do we leverage these technologies, what it is, is it's a different way of writing software and it's not necessarily going to replace traditional software development, but it's going to augment it, it's going to let you do other interesting things and so, where are things going? I think we're going to continue to start coalescing around what are the right ways to do things. Right now we talk about, you know, ML Ops and how development and the frameworks and all of this innovation. There's so much innovation, which means that the industry is moving so quickly that it's hard to settle on things like standards and, or at least best practices you know, at the very least. And that the best practices are changing every three months. Are they really best practices right? So I think, right, I think that as we progress and coalesce around kind of what are the right ways to do things that's really going to make customers' lives easier. Because, you know, today, if you're a software developer you know, we build a lot of software at Pure Storage right? And if you have people and developers who are familiar with how the process, how the factory functions, then their skills become portable and it becomes easier to onboard people and AI is still nothing like that right now. It's just so, so fast moving and it's so- >> Wild West kind of. >> It's not standardized. It's not industrialized, right? And so the next big frontier in all of this amazing stuff is how do we industrialize this and really make it easy to implement for organizations? >> Oil refineries, industrial Revolution. I mean, it's on that same trajectory. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Or industrial revolution. (John laughs) >> Well, we've talked a lot about the chaos and sort of we are very much at this early stage stepping way back and this can be your personal not Pure Storage opinion if you want. >> Okay. >> What in HPC or AIML I guess it all falls under the same umbrella, has you most excited? >> Ooh. >> So I feel like you're someone who sees a lot of different things. You've got a lot of customers, you're out talking to people. >> I think that there is a lot of advancement in the area of natural language processing and I think that, you know, we're starting to take things just like natural language processing and then turning them into vision processing and all these other, you know, I think the, the most exciting thing for me about AI is that there are a lot of people who are, you are looking to use these kinds of technologies to make technology more inclusive. And so- >> I love it. >> You know the ability for us to do things like automate captioning or the ability to automate descriptive, audio descriptions of video streams or things like that. I think that those are really,, I think they're really great in terms of bringing the benefits of technology to more people in an automated way because the challenge has always been bandwidth of how much a human can do. And because they were so difficult to automate and what AI's really allowing us to do is build systems whether that's text to speech or whether that's translation, or whether that's captioning or all these other things. I think the way that AI interfaces with humans is really the most interesting part. And I think the benefits that it can bring there because there's a lot of talk about all of the things that it does that people don't like or that they, that people are concerned about. But I think it's important to think about all the really great things that maybe don't necessarily personally impact you, but to the person who's not cited or to the person who you know is hearing impaired. You know, that's an enormously valuable thing. And the fact that those are becoming easier to do they're becoming better, the quality is getting better. I think those are really important for everybody. >> I love that you brought that up. I think it's a really important note to close on and you know, there's always the kind of terminator, dark side that we obsess over but that's actually not the truth. I mean, when we think about even just captioning it's a tool we use on theCUBE. It's, you know, we see it on our Instagram stories and everything else that opens the door for so many more people to be able to learn. >> Right? >> And the more we all learn, like you said the water level rises together and everything is magical. Justin, it has been a pleasure to have you on board. Last question, any more bourbon tasting today? >> Not that I'm aware of, but if you want to come by I'm sure we can find something somewhere. (all laughing) >> That's the spirit, that is the spirit of an innovator right there. Justin, thank you so much for joining us from Pure Storage. John Furrier, always a pleasure to interview with you. >> I'm glad I can contribute. >> Hey, hey, that's the understatement of the century. >> It's good to be back. >> Yeah. >> Hopefully I'll see you guys in, I'll see you guys in 2034. >> No. (all laughing) No, you've got the Pure Accelerate conference. We'll be there. >> That's right. >> We'll be there. >> Yeah, we have our Pure Accelerate conference next year and- >> Great. >> Yeah. >> I love that, I mean, feel free to, you know, hype that. That's awesome. >> Great company, great runs, stayed true to the mission from day one, all Flash, continue to innovate congratulations. >> Yep, thank you so much, it's pleasure being here. >> It's a fun ride, you are a joy to talk to and it's clear you're just as excited as we are about hardware, so thanks a lot Justin. >> My pleasure. >> And thank all of you for tuning in to this wonderfully nerdy hardware edition of theCUBE live from Dallas, Texas, where we're at, Supercomputing, my name's Savannah Peterson and I hope you have a wonderful night. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to "theCUBE." Lisa Martin here with John Furrier. This is day three of our wall-to-wall coverage of VMware Explore. John and I are pleased to welcome back one of our alumni, Muddu Sudhakar, the CEO of AISERA. Welcome to the program, Muddu. It's great to meet you. >> Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for having me. Thank you, John. >> Great to see you again. You're like an industry analyst coming on "theCUBE". You should be like a guest analyst, breaking down. I know you got your own company to run, and by the way, the recent funding you had, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> In a market that's not getting a lot of funding. You get an up around. Congratulations on that. >> Thank you. >> Business is good? >> Very good, thank you. Look, Goldman Sachs Investing, along with Zoom and Thoma Bravo, it was great for us. >> Great stuff. Well, I'm glad we could get you in. This day three, Lisa and I and Dave Vellante and Dave Nicholson have all been talking to everyone for two days here at VMware Explore, formerly VMworld, our 12th year covering their annual conference, as you know, and we've been telling the executives, but day three is more of, we're going to mix it up. We're going to bring people in and get their opinions about Supercloud, does VMware go post-Broadcom? Obviously, that's going to happen. Looks like nothing's going to stop that from happening. What's next? What's the impact? Who wins? Who loses? VMware certainly not acting like they're going to get gutted. They're all full throttle ahead. They're laying down some announcements, vSphere 8, you got vSAN 8, they got cloud-native, they're talking multi-cloud. VMware's not looking like they're flinching. What's going on, in your view, outside of the bubble that we're here in San Francisco, out in the real world, in the trenches. What are people talking about? What do you see? >> Lot to unpack. (all laugh) >> Start at wherever you want. >> Yes. You know, I was a VMware alumni too. >> Yes >> You sold the company to VMware. You know the inside. Okay, So then, even then- >> I worked with Paul and Pat and Raghu. It's great to be back at VMware now. I think there's a lot going on in VMware. VMware is here to stay. The brand will stay. The VMware customers will stay for years to come. I think Broadcom and VMware, I think it's a great industry consolidation, the way in which I see it. And it is going to help all the customers too, right? Broadcom, having such a large foot play into both CA, the software business, the hardware business. I think what will happen is that Broadcom will try to create a hybrid cloud of their own with VMware. So there'll be a fourth player in the cloud industry. And then back to John, your Supercloud. The Supercloud by definition, there'll be private clouds, public clouds, hybrid clouds. I think Broadcom with VMware will help your vision of the Supercloud and what your customers are asking. >> Yeah, one of the things I want to get your thoughts on, Lisa and I were talking yesterday with the executives, AJ Patel in particular, he's a middleware guy. >> Right. >> So what he did was Oracle. He did a lot of the fusion stuff at Oracle. He now runs Modern Apps. And you came in at the time, I think, when they were just getting that app vision going, and Paul Moritz actually had it early with his 2010 vision, but too early on the app side. But that ended up happening too. So the question is, is Broadcom going to be this middleware layer, and treat the cloud like hardware. And then, apps or apps. Companies are apps. In a digital transformation, technology is the company. >> Right >> So the company is the app. >> That's right, >> Is an application. So apps and hardware, middle, a middleware model emerging. Do you think they're going for that? Or am I just making this up in my head? >> No, I think to me, I see Broadcom as much more, they're like a peer company at the high level. So they're funded by- >> Like a private equity company. >> Private equity company. >> You mean from a dollar standpoint. >> From a dollar standpoint. So Broadcom is going to fund companies. They're going to buy companies. They bought CA, they bought all the other assets. So Broadcom will have always hardware. The middle level could be VMware, but they also have CA, right? They have a bunch of apps here. So I see the Broadcom is also using VMware to run applications. So the consolidation will be they'll create a Supercloud using VMware. They're going to own their own apps. I don't think Broadcom's story is stopped. Its journey to come. They're going to buy more acquisitions, more apps companies. I won't be surprised, in the future, they buy Zendesk. I won't be surprised, in the future, they buy other apps companies, SaaS companies and cloud enterprise companies. Right? So that's where the P is coming. So the broad conversion is, I need a base middleware, like you're saying. There's no other middleware on top of hardware better than VMware. >> So do you think that they'll keep the stuff that's coming out of the other? 'Cause we've been speculating on "theCUBE" this week. They have the core business, but there's all this stuff that's kind of coming out of the oven that's not EBITDA-oriented yet. Do you think they keep that or they let it go? >> I think that's a great question to hang their CEO of Broadcom. But to me, I think, knowing them, they're going to keep, and if you look at Symantec, they kept parts of Symantec, this whole parts of it. So I think all options are on the table for them, right? They'll do whatever it is. But I think it has to be the ones that high growth companies they may give it. It all goes back to is it a profitability to it or not? But his vision is very good. I want to own the middleware, right? He will own the middleware using VMware to your vision, create a Supercloud and own the apps. So I think you'll see Broadcom is the fourth vendor in the cloud race. You have Microsoft, AWS, Google, and Broadcom is actually going to compete with this four. >> So you think there'll be a hyper scale? They'll be in the top three or four. >> There'll be top four. >> Okay. >> Along with Oracle. So now, we are talking about the five vendors will be Amazon, Azure, Google, Oracle, and Broadcom. >> We had Amazon guy on, Steve Jones. I should have asked him that question. I just don't see that happening yet. They have to have the full hardware side. How do you see that coming in? 'Cause Amazon's innovating at the atom level and they're working on stuff that's physical, transit, physics stuff, like down to the root level. >> I think Broadcom figure, look, they own the chips out right, at the end of the day. They also have a lot of chips such to supply to both mobile and this. So if there's anybody who can figure out the hardware, it will be Broadcom. That is their core of area. They didn't have the core in the software and the middleware. VMware is going to give them the OS, the Kubernetes, the VMs. Once you have that layer, I think you can innovate both up and below, right? So I think, John, I think Broadcom VMware will be a force to reckon with and I think these guys are going to get into healthcare space though. So if you see the way they battle, you and me are talking Lisa, like Microsoft bought new ones, Oracle bought Cerner. So they all paid 30 billion each. So the next battle ground will be, they'll start in the healthcare industry. Somebody's going to go look at the healthcare apps like Epic, right? They're going to look at how we can do the hospitals. They're going to look at hospital healthcare professionals. That area will be disrupted a lot in the same. >> What other industries do you think, besides healthcare, are ripe for disruption with Broadcom VMware? >> I think endpoint management, like remember VMware bought AirWatch when I was there back then, right? That whole area is called digital experience management. So that endpoint mainly will be disrupted. So Broadcom with VMware will go again into endpoint. I'm talking endpoint could be the servers, desktops, VMware Max, right? Virtual Desktop VDI. So that whole management of mobile devices to desktop, that whole industry will be disrupted. A lot of players are there trying to do more consulting services. I think VMware is a great assets and tools. If I'm Broadcom, my chip sets are going into the endpoint. So that area will be disrupted a lot with Broadcom in VMware. >> Yeah, one of the things that VMware, people have been talking about, is that the CA acquisition that Broadcom did was the playbooks public. Everyone saw what they did. They killed sales and market and they killed all the execs, metaphorically speaking. They fired them. VMware's got a different vibe here. I'm feeling like it could go one way or the other. I think they should keep them, personally. But you don't know. If they're a PE company, they EBIDA driven, maybe it's just simply numbers. >> Right. >> If that's the case, then I'm worried. But VMware's got pride, they got mojo, and they've got expertise in software. Maybe a little bit different circumstance? What's take on this? Or do you think it's going to be black and white to the numbers? >> I think, knowing Hank's playbook, if he knows what he's going to do, right? His playbook will be consistent with Symantec. >> You think he already knows what he wants to do? >> I think so. I think at that level, both with Simulink and Broadcom, they already know the playbook. At this stage the games, people already know their game. It's like a chess move. They already know. They'll look at VMware and see which assets to keep, which one not to keep, which organization, but I think Hank is a master at this one. To me, I'm personally excited with the VMware Broadcom combination. It's a great thing for the industry. It's great for VMware and VMware customers and partners. >> Well, John, you and Dave had a chance to sit down with Raghu. What were some of the things that he unpacked about the Broadcom acquisition? >> He was on talking points. He was on message. He was saying the things that any CEO was going to make a lot of cash on this deal. And he's proud. I think it wasn't about the money for him. I sensed that he's certainly going to make a lot of cash on this deal as an executive, but he's a long time VMware employee and a well loved and revered person. He's done a lot of great work, technically set the agenda. So I think their mindset is we're going to just continue to do an amazing job as VMware as we are and then let Broadcom, let the chips fall where they may, and hopefully, if they do a good job, maybe they'll either refactor some of their base plans or they laid it all out in the field, so to speak. So that's my vibe. Now specifically, he made some comments, like, "Yeah, we're really proud." And he staying technical. He's still like, "This is really happening." So I think he's going to, essentially, to the very end, be like, "Cross cloud and hybrid cloud. This is our third generation." So there he's hanging onto the VMware third act that they're saying, and he hopes that it comes home. And I think he's going to just deal with it. He didn't seem flustered and he didn't seem overly confident. >> Okay. >> I guess that's my opinion. What do you think? >> Personally worked with Raghu, worked for Raghu, so I think of him as the greatest CEO for VMware ever could have, right? It's a journey. It was Paul Maritz, then Pat Gelsinger, now Raghu. I think he's in the right place, right time to lead VMware, and Raghu's doing a fantastic job. And personally, getting these two companies married, I think Raghu did the right partnership with Broadcom. >> Well, I think if this event's any indication if they're just sitting back and waiting, they're not, and this event was well done, it was pulled off. The branding's amazing. I thought they did a good job with the name change. And then in light of all the Broadcom issues, the execution was great. It was not a bad show here. It was a good show. It wasn't terrible at all. People were excited. I think the ecosystem also felt that Broadcom, like an electronic shock to the system, like something's going to happen. Let's wait and see. I'm going to go to the event to see if it's going to be around and kind of getting a feel first party, in person, what's happening. Again, remember VMware didn't have an event since 2019. This is a community that thrives on physical, face to face camaraderie, community. And so, I think the show was a success. And I think that's a result of Raghu and his team. >> Because we have a booth there for AISERA, my company, we have a booth. We are offering coffee and donuts. You guys should come by and tell people. You'll get a free coffee and a donut, but it's one of the best shows I've seen. Well, I think people after pandemic are back, people are interacting. We have 500 people in one day at our booth. So for a startup company like us, getting that much crowd is unheard of. So it's great. We're very excited. >> The vibe from the partner community, I had a chance to talk with a lot of partners, AWS, NetApp, Rackspace, really seems like the partnerships side of VMware is very, very strong and the partners are excited about what's next for VMware. Did you have a chance to talk with any of the partners? >> Actually, look. I'm actually meeting with Karen. So Karen Egan is my contact at VMware too, and Sumit, (indistinct) a bunch of the customer success organization. We talk to people in their digital experience management team. We are very excited to be partner with both VMware's customer, partner, and all experts, right? I'll need the VMware ecosystem for my company to thrive. So for us, VMware customers are my customers and leveraging VMware APIs into VMware, that's that's important for us. >> Lisa, that's a great question because that brings us to the question of, okay, clearly this show also proves to us from our conversations and exploring the floor, the wave is coming. This next cloud wave is here. We're calling it Supercloud, whatever you want to call it, it's coming and it's real, and people know it. And also the lines of sight into economics around where people can fit in this next level ecosystem is becoming clear. So I think people kind of know what's the right side of the street to be on in this next shift. So that's coming. That's independent of Broadcom. So the floor represents to me the excitement for not only the VMware workload powering software, with or without Broadcom, but the next wave. So the question is if Broadcom goes down their path and Hank does what he does, who wins and who loses on where things flow? Because this energy is going to flow somewhere. Is it going to flow to AWS? Is it going to flow to Microsoft? Is it going to flow to HPE with Green Lake getting some great traction? NetApp's doing great. We just heard from them. So the partners aren't hurting. It's only going to get better. re:Invent's right around the corner. That's a packed house. Their ecosystem's growing like a weed. Who wins? 'Cause the customers at VMware are enterprise customers. They're used to being serviced. They have sales reps from Microsoft, they got sales reps from Hewlett Packard Enterprise, real senior enterprise stakeholders there. So someone's going to end up filling in as VMware settles into their broad composition. Who wins and who loses, in your mind? >> A Very good question. So my thing is, I think it's... Well, I put Microsoft and Amazon the winners. In that way, actually mean Microsoft will win because in a true Supercloud, your vision, back to hybrid cloud on-prem and public cloud, VMware disruption with Broadcom, as if there's any bridge in the market, Microsoft will take advantage of it. Azure, right? Amazon VMware is there. Then, you have Google and VMware. So I think Azure will probably try to take advantage of this, but very next will be Amazon, right away there. That leaves you with Google Cloud, right? Google Cloud is the one. So they're the people that are able to figure out what to do in this equation. And then, obviously, the other one is Oracle. Oracle has no hearts in this game. So to me, the people who are going to probably lose impact model will be Oracle if the Broadcom and VMware will happen. So it's Azure, Amazon winning the race, probably Google is right behind them. Oracle will be distinct. Other side is Dell. Actually, Dell has no game in this. Our Broadcom and VMware, Dell should be the one. >> Dell might have a little secret sauce on the table with Michael Dell. >> That's true. >> If he convert his shares, he might be the largest shareholder at Broadcom. >> That's true. >> He could end up owning all the back. >> So he may be the winner all the time. (all laugh) >> Don't count him out. Well, this is a good question. I want to just double click on this. So you get customer dynamic. Where do they go? You get the community, which is a big force multiplier in this world, and if you had to bet on community between Microsoft and Amazon Web Services, Amazon trumps Microsoft on force multiplier community. Ecosystem, AWS beats Microsoft on that one. So it's interesting because it's now multiple dimensions we're talking about here. It's customers. That's the top order, right? The customers. But also, you got community, the people who put on sessions, the people in the community that are the influencers that are leading the trends, and developers are very trending, relative to what kind of code they use, what's their environments? So the developers is changing that landscape and, ultimately, the ecosystem of partners, right? 'Cause there's a lot more overlap between AWS and VMware's ecosystem than there is between Microsoft and that. And HPE is just starting an ecosystem. So it's going to be very interesting. >> It is. It is. I think Broadcom and VMware cannot be any best time for the industry, right? As you said. HP is coming in. Oracle is coming in. And to your point, VMware and AWS are another best partners. Now, this going to create any gap for Microsoft to enter for Azure? I think that's where the market is saying that it's going to open up a hybrid cloud player for Microsoft to enter what is to be a tight relationship with VMware and Amazon. Right? So people will rethink through their apps. And more importantly, the end point to me. See, the key is, like you talk about with Supercloud, nobody's talking about Supercloud for the endpoint. >> You mean Edge or security? >> Not an Edge endpoint. Endpoint could be your devices, laptop, desktop. >> Or a building or a light bulb or whatever. >> Desktop or VDI desktop services servers, right? So we call it endpoint cloud. There's no endpoint Supercloud. John, that's an area that you should double click on. Super cloud for the servers is different from Supercloud for endpoint. >> Well, SuperCloud.World is the URL out there. If you're interested in Supercloud, we are adding tracks to that body of work. So we had our event on August 9th. It was virtual event, where Dave and I are going to add a data track, we're going to add a security track, and we should add, maybe, an endpoint workspace, work. >> That's a VMware brand, Workspace and Horizon. So that whole workspace endpoint for Supercloud is going to happen. >> Yes. >> Right. That kind of deviates from- >> Do you like Supercloud? Are you bullish on Supercloud? >> I'm very bullish on Supercloud because I, myself, is running on-prem in VPCs, public clouds, private clouds. Supercloud kind of composites it so app should be designed. 'Cause I don't want to design an app for one cloud. It's not going to work. So it's like how Java came and I can run it on any platform. The ideas you build it on Supercloud, run it, whatever you want. Right? >> That's exactly it. So what would you want to see in Supercloud as it evolves? And we were part of this open conversation. This is our point for today. We're going to have a great panel come up later today. We're going to have the influencers come on to debate what Supercloud should or shouldn't be. If you want to add to the contribution, we'll add this into the work, what should what's needed in Supercloud? What's table stakes. >> I think we need a Java compiler that will happen for Supercloud. I build it once, execute in any place I want, right? Using the Terraform, HashiCorp (indistinct) So what I don't want is keep building this thing for every cloud. I want to abstract that out. The whole idea of Supercloud is how Java gave me the abstraction for hardware 20 years back or 30 years back, we need the same abstraction for the cloud today. Otherwise, I'm customizing for VM Cloud, I'm customizing for AWS, Azure, Google Cloud. We, as an application vendor, it's too hard to keep doing it. I have now thousand tuners. I don't need thousand DevOps people. I need maybe 10 DevOps people. So there's a clear abstraction complexity that industry should develop, and your concept Supercloud with everybody thinking that, and it has to start from the grassroots with ecosystem. >> What do you think about the participants in this abstraction layer? Because someone said on "theCUBE" here this week, the people in the abstraction layer shouldn't be participants in the below or above the abstraction. >> I think it should be everybody, right? It's all inclusive. You need the apps guys to come in. You need the OS players to come in. You need the cloud vendors to come in, infrastructure. So you need everybody. >> Okay, let's just say that you were the spokesperson for the Supercloud organization, Supercloud.World. How would you sell AWS on why it's important for them? >> It's because they can build it and sell it in AWS and multiple AWS Gov Cloud, AWS On-prem, VPCs. It's even important for them, their expansion, their market time upfront. If I'm (indistinct), if I'm built on Supercloud, I can increase my time share. Otherwise I'm bringing only to public cloud. >> Okay, so I'll say, I'm Amazon and we have a concept called "One Way Doors." We don't want to go through a one way door. Is Supercloud a one way door for them? What's in it for them? Do they make more? Does it help their ecosystem? And the same question from Microsoft Azure and Google cloud. >> They're make more money. They're making their apps run in multiple places. It's a natural expansion. You are solving your customer problems for Amazon and DGC, right? My job is give people choices. I give choice to Lisa. Lisa can run it on public cloud. John, you can run it on VPC, AWS. >> So you're saying, so you think customers are asking for this right now? >> Everybody's asking. >> But don't really know how to say it? >> Customers are asking. Partners are asking. All of us are asking. >> Okay, what's the ask? >> Ask is give me a one place to build applications and run it anywhere without adding the complexity. >> Okay. Done. That's Supercloud. It'll ship tomorrow. (Lisa laughs) Well done. (John laughs) All right, well done. Final question for you. Lisa and I have been talking with folks here. What advice would you give the folks that are in here? 'Cause we have a lot of activity, people with marketing their solutions and products. They're trying to put a voice out there around thought leadership and trying to figure out what side of the street they should be on relative to the next 10 years as they're here at VMware Explore, as the next gen cloud comes around. What's the right narrative? What's the right positioning for companies to be on right now to be the most relevant and in the flow? >> I don't know about 10 years, but right now we are in difficult economic times, right? Markets are down. Inflation is up. So I think the fastest cost, people should focus on cost. How can it take cost? Automation is the key, right? Whether you use AI or automation , like you and me talking, John, last week, right? That's important. Every CEO I talk to is focused on cost. How do I cut my cost? How can I do with fewer resources? How can I do with fewer people, right? So the new budget right now is cut your budget in half. So every company, every exec should think about how can you be a good citizen? How can I get growth and scale? How can I do more with less? And that should be the next 12 months. >> That was a lot of the theme of conversations that I had with the VMware ecosystem, doing more with less. So that's definitely on everyone's minds. >> Right, and that's what my company is fully focused on. AISERA is all about AI automation. How can we solve your thing? We want to be solving customer problem. We are like your automation engine for your enterprise, right? We are a platform of platform. That's why I like the Supercloud. I can run AISERA as a platform on top of Supercloud. >> Excellent. >> Wow! If only we had more time! I know that you guys could really dig into Supercloud and take it even further. So you have to come back, Muddu. >> I will. >> He always wants to come back. >> I will be back. >> He's on the team. He's has contributed to the open source effort of Supercloud. Thank you. >> Yes. >> All right, thank you so much for joining John and me and kind of breaking down your vision on VMware Broadcom and the future. Next step, we've got to get some customers on here. I really want to understand what the customer experience is going to be like, but we'll have to another segment on that one. >> We will do that. Thank you, Lisa, for having me. >> My pleasure. >> John. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> For our guest and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching "theCUBE" live on day three of our coverage of VMware Explore. We'll be back after a short break. (upbeat corporate music)

>> Welcome back to the cubes, ongoing coverage of VMworld 2021 the second year in a row. We've done this virtually. My name is Dave Volante and long time VMware technologist and new CTO kit Colbert is here. Kit welcome good to see you again. >> Thanks Dave, super excited to be here. >> So let's talk about your new role, you've been at VMware. You've touched all the bases, so to speak and, you know, love the career evolution, you're ready for this job. So tell us about that role. >> Well, I hope so. I don't know. It's definitely a big step up been here at VMware for 18 years now, which if you're not Silicon valley, you know, that's a long time. It's probably like four or five normal Silicon valley lifetime in terms of stints at a company. But I love it. I love the company, I love the culture. I love the technology and I'm super passionate, super excited about it. And so, you know, the, the new role previously, I was CTO for one of our business groups and focused on a specific set of our products and services. But now as the corporate CTO, I really am overseeing all of VMware, R and D. In the sense of really trying to drive a whole bunch of core engineering transformations, right? Where we've talked a lot about our shift toward becoming a SAS company. So, you know, a cloud services company. And so there's a lot of changes. We got to make internally, technologies, platform services we need to build out, you know, the, the sort of culture aspects of it again. And so, you know, I'm kind of sitting at the center of that and it's, I'll be honest, it's big, there's a lot of stuff to go and do, but I am just super excited about it. Wake up every day, really excited to meet a whole bunch of new people across the organization and to learn all the cool things we're doing, it's just, well, you know, I'll say it again, like the level of innovation happening inside of VMware is just insane. And it's really cool now that I get kind of more of a front and center road to see everything that's happening. >> Well and when I was preparing for the interview with Ragu, I was thinking about, you know, I've been following VMware for a long time, and I sort of noted that it's like the fourth wave of executive management and sort of went back and said, okay, yes, we know it started with, you know, workstation. Okay, fine. But then really quickly went into really changing the way in which we think about servers, server utilization and driving. I remember the first time I ever saw a demo, I said, wow, this is going to be completely game changing. And really, and then, and then thought about the era of the software defined data center, fine tuning the cloud strategy. And then this explosion of innovation, whether it was the sort of NSX piece, the acquisitions you've made around security, again, more cloud expansion. And now you're laying out sort of this Switzerland from multi-cloud combined with this as you're pointing out this as a service model. So when you think about the technical vision of the company transforming into a cloud and subscription model, what does that mean from a sort of architectural standpoint or a mindset perspective? >> Oh yeah. Both great questions, both sort of key focus areas for me. And by the way, it's something I've been thinking about for quite a while, right? Yeah so you're right. Like we are on our third or fourth lap of the track depending on, on how you count. But I also think that this one that this notion of getting into multicloud of becoming a real cloud services company is going to be probably the biggest one for us. And the biggest transformation that we're going to have to make. You know, we, we did extend from core compute virtualization to network and storage, but the software defined data center. But now these things I think are a bit more fundamental. So, you know, how are we thinking about it? But we're thinking about it in a few different ways. I do think, as you mentioned, the mindset is definitely the most important thing. This notion that, you know, we no longer really have product teams purely. They should be thinking of themselves as service teams and the idea being that they are operating and accountable for the availability of their cloud service. And so this means we really need to step up our game. We have in terms of the types of tooling that we built, but really it's about getting these developers engaged with that, to know that, hey, like what matters most of all right now is that service availability. In addition to things like security compliance, et cetera, but we have monitoring systems to tell you, hey, there's a problem. And that you need to go jump on those things immediately. This is not like, you know, a normal bug that comes in, oh, I'll get to it tomorrow or whatever. It's like, no, no, no, you got to step up and really get there immediately. And so there is that big mindset shift. That's something we've been driving the past few years, but we need to continue to push there. And as part of that, you know, the other thing we're doing is that what we've seen is that a lot of our individual teams have gone out and build like really great cloud services. But what we really want to build to enable us to accelerate that is a platform, a true SaaS platform and leveraging all these great capabilities that we have to help all of our teams go faster. So it gets to things like standardization and really raising the bar across the board to allow all these teams to focus on what makes their products or services unique and differentiated rather than, you know, just doing the basic blocking and tackling. So those are a couple of things I'm really focused on both driving the mindset shift. You know, I think when I, you know, as I was taking on this role, I did a lot of reading on other CTOs and, you know, how do they view their roles within their companies? And one of the things I did hear there was that the CTO is kind of the I dunno, the keeper is the right word, but the keeper of the engineering culture, right. That you want to really be a steward for that to help take it forward in the right sort of directions that align with the strategic direction of the business. And so that's a big aspect for what I'm thinking about. And the second one, the SAS platform, one of the really interesting things about this reorg that we've done internally is that traditionally CTO has kind of focused, you know, outbound, maybe a little bit inbound, but typically don't have large engineering organizations, but here what we want to do, because this, this SAS platform is so important to us. We did centralize it within the office of the CTO. And so now, you know, my customers from an engineering standpoint are all the internal business units. So a lot of really big changes inside VMware, but I think this is the sort of stuff we need to do to help us really accelerate toward the multi-cloud vision that we're painting. >> Well, VMware has always had a super strong engineering culture. And I like the way you phrase that the steward of the engineering culture, when you think about a product mindset, when, of course correct me, if I'm off here, but when you're building a product and you're making that thing rock solid, you want more rich to talk about the hardened top, and so it seems to me that the services mindset expands the mind a little bit in terms of what other services can I integrate to make my service better. Whether that's a machine intelligence service or a security service, or, you know, the dozens of other services that you guys are now building the combination of that innovation is, has like a step function and a lever on top of the sort of traditional product mindset. >> Yeah, there is, I think you're absolutely right. There's a ton of like really fundamental mental mindset shifts, right? That are a part of that. And the integration piece, you mentioned super critical, but I also think it's, it's actually taking a step back and looking at the life cycle more holistically when you're thinking about a product you're thinking about, okay, I get the bits together, I'm going to ship it out, but then it's really up to the customer to go deploy that, to operate it and, you know, deal with problems and bugs that come up. And when you're delivering a cloud service, those are all problems that you, as the application creator have to deal with. And so you got to be on top of all those things. And, you know, if you design something in such a way that it becomes kind of hard to bug it runtime, well, that's going to directly impact your availability that might have, you know, contractual obligations with an SLA impact to a customer. So there's some really big implications there that I think traditionally product teams didn't always fully think through, but now that they sort of have to with a cloud service. The other point, I think that's really important, there is the notion of simplicity and ease of use experience is always important, right? Customer experience, user experience, but it gets even more magnified in a SaaS type of environment because the idea is that you shouldn't have to talk to anybody view, you as a user, should be able to go and call an API and start using this thing right and swipe a credit card and you're good to go. And so, you know, that sort of maniacal focus on how you just remove roadblocks, remove any unnecessary things between that customer and getting the value that they're looking for. So in general, the thing that I really love about SaaS and cloud services is that they really align incentives very well. What you want to do as an application builder, as a solution builder really aligns well with what customers are looking for. And you can get that feedback very, very rapidly, which allows for much quicker evolution of the underlying product and application. >> So one of the other things I learned from my interview with Ragu and I couldn't go deep into it. I did a little bit with summit, but I want to get your perspectives as well as I always talk about this obstruction layer across clouds, hybrid, multicloud edge extract, extracting, the complexity of the, you know, the underlying complexity, and Ragu was sort of it's nuance, but he said, okay, but the thing is, we're not trying to limit access to the primitives. We want to allow developers to go there to the extent they want to and my takeaway was okay, but the, the abstraction is you want to be that single management layer with access to the deep primitives and APIs of the respective clouds. But simplify to your point across those estates at the management layer, and maybe you could add some color to that. >> Yeah you know, it's a really interesting question. And but let me tell you about how we think about it because you're right. And that the, you know, the abstractions can sometimes find the underlying primitives and capabilities. And so Ragu is getting at, hey, like we don't necessarily force you one way or the other. And here's the way to think about it is that it's really about delivering optionality. And we do that through offering these abstractions at different layers. So to your point, Dave, like we have a management capabilities that can enable you to manage consistently across all types of clouds, public, private, edge, et cetera, irrespective of what that underlying infrastructure is. And so you look at things that are like our V realize suite of products or cloud health or tons, and tons of mission control is really focused on that one as well. But then we also have our infrastructure layer. That's what we're doing with VMware cloud and this notion of delivering consistent infrastructure. Now, even though, the core sort of IS layer is more consistent, you still get great flexibility in terms of the higher level services. If you want to use a database from one of the public clouds or messaging system or streaming services, you know, AI, whatever it is, you still got that sort of optionality as well. And so the reason that we offer these different things is because customers are just in different places. As a matter of fact, a single customer may have all of those different use cases, right? They may have some apps where they're moving from on-prem and the cloud, they want to do that very quickly. So, boom, we can just do it really fast with VMware cloud consistent infrastructure, we can vMotion that thing up in the cloud. Great. But for other ones, maybe a modern app they're building and maybe a team has chosen to use native AWS for that, but they want to leverage Kubernetes. So there you could put in a ton of mission control to give them that, you know, consistent management across sites or leverage cloud health to understand costs and to really enable the application teams to manage costs on their own. So I think, you know, I always go back to that concept of optionality, like we offer sort of these different levels of abstraction. And it really depends on what the use case is because the reality is especially for a complex enterprise, they're likely going to have all those use cases. >> You know. I want to stay on optionality for a moment because you're essentially becoming a cloud company. I'm expanding the definition of cloud and that's, which I think is appropriate because the cloud is expanding. It's going on, prem, it's going out to the edge hybrid connections across clouds, et cetera. And when you look at the public cloud players there, they all are deep into what I'll call data management. I'm not even sure what that term means anymore sometimes, but certainly they all own own databases, but they also offer databases from folks. You I go back to something Moritz said with the software mainframe that we want to be able to run any workload, you know, anywhere and, and have high reliability recovery, you know, lowest costs, et cetera. It doesn't seem as though you're going to run those, those workloads project Monterey is about supporting new workloads, but it doesn't seem like you have aspirations to, own sort of the database layer, for example, what's your philosophy around that? >> Not generally I mean, we do have some solutions like Greenplum, for instance, that play in that space, more of a data warehouse solution. But generally speaking, you're absolutely right. You know, VMware success was built through tight partnerships. We have a very, very broad partner network. And of course we see hyperscalers as great partners as well. And so, you know, I think if we get back to like, what's the core of VMware, it really is providing those powerful abstractions in the right places, at the infrastructure level, at the management level and so forth. But yeah, we're not trying to necessarily compete with everyone reinvent the world, what we're trying to do is, and by the way, if I just take a step back when we talk to customers, what really drives them toward multi clouds toward using multiple clouds is the fact that they want to get after these, what we call best of breed cloud services, that many of the different public clouds offer databases and AI and ML systems. And for each app team, the exact one that perfectly meets their needs, maybe different, right? Maybe on one cloud versus another cloud. And so that is really the optionality that we want to optimize for when we talk to those customers that they want the easiest way of getting that app onto that cloud. So we can take advantage of that cloud service, but what they worry about is the lack of consistency there. And that goes across the board. You know, if something fails at two AM, you have to wake up and go fix it. Do you have like the right sort of tooling in place, if it's fails on one cloud versus another, do you have to like, you know, scramble to figure out which tools to go use, how to go, you know, which dashboard to look at? I was like, no, they want kind of a consistent one. When you think about, from a security perspective, how do you drive a secure software supply chain? How do you prevent the types of attacks that we've seen in the past few years where people insert malicious code into your supply chain, and now you're running with hack code out there. And if you have different teams doing different things across different clouds, well, that's going to just open up sort of a can of worm, of different possibilities there for hackers to get in. So that's why this consistency is so important. And so, you know, if, I guess if we refine, the optionality a little bit, that point it's about getting optionality around cloud services and that those, like, those are the things that really differentiate. And so that, you know, we're not trying to compete with that. We're saying, hey, like we want to bring customers to those and give them the best experience that they can irrespective of whether that's in the public cloud or on prem or even at the edge. >> That's a huge technical challenge and amazing value for customers, I want to ask you, there's a lot of talk about ESG today. How does that fit into the CTO mindset? Is it a bolt-on, is it as it is fundamental component? >> Yeah the idea there is that if we look at the core values for VMware, this is something that's hugely important and something that we've actually been focused on for quite a while. We now have a whole team focused on this really being a force multiplier to help keep us honest across VMware, to help ensure equity and in many different ways that we have an air continue to increase. For instance, the amount of female representation within our organization or underrepresented minorities or communities ensuring that, you know, pay is equal across the company. You know, these different sorts of things, but also around sustainability. They actually have a number of folks working very closely with our teams to drive sustainability into our products. You know, vSphere is great because it reduces the amount of physical servers you need. So by definition reduces the carbon footprint there, but now, you know, I'm taking a step further. We have cloud partners that we're working with to ensure that they have net zero carbon emissions, you know, using a hundred percent renewables by 2030. And in fact, that's something that we ourselves have signed up for. As you know, today we are carbon neutral, but what we want to get to is to be net carbon zero by 2030, which is an absolutely huge lift. And that's, by the way, not just for VMware, our operations, our offices, but also for our supply chain as well. And so, you know, when you look across this, you know, as well as efforts around diversity and inclusion, this is something that is very core to what we do as a company, but it's also a personal passion of mine. The ESG office actually lives within my organization. And it does that because what I view the office of the CTO as being as really a force multiplier, as I said before, like, yes, the team is located here, but their purview is across all of engineering. And in fact, all of VMware. So I think, you know, when we look at this, it's about getting the best talent we have, very diverse talent increasing our ability to deliver innovative products, but also doing so in a way that's good for the planet that is sustainable and that is giving back to the community. But I think, you know, I'm looking at measuring success in a few different ways. First of all, as I said before, the ESG component and in diversity equity inclusion in particular, in terms of our workforce, extraordinarily important to me and something we're going to be really pushing hard on, you know, as we all know, you know, women, underrepresented minorities, not very well represented in general in Silicon valley. So something that we all need to step up on. And so we're going to be putting a lot of effort in there and that will actually help drive as I said before, all of these innovations, this fundamental shift in mindset, I mean that requires diverse perspectives. It requires pushing us out of our comfort zone, but the net result of that is, so what you're going to see is a much faster cadence of releases of innovation coming from VMware. So there's some just insanely exciting things that are happening in the labs right now that we're cooking up. But, you know, as we start making this shift, we're going to be delivering those faster and faster to our customers and our partners. >> You know, I'm interested to hear that it's a passion of yours. There was an article, I think it was last week in the wall street journal was this, it was an insert section on, on women in the workforce. And there was a stat in there, which I thought was pretty interesting. I'll run it by you see what you think it said that, you know, it's talking about COVID and post COVID and the stresses. And it's interesting to me because a lot of executives are, and you know, I'm, I'm with them is, hey, work from home. This is some beautiful thing. It's good for business too, because you know, everybody's more productive, but then you have this perpetual workday now it's like we never sleep. And then it goes bleeds in the weekends. And the stat from Qualtrics, which was published in the journal, said that, I think it said 30% of working women said that they, their mental health has declined since COVID. And that number was only 15% for working men, still notable but half. And so, you know, one has to question maybe that perpetual work week, and, you know, maybe there's a benefit from business productivity, but then there's the other side of that as well. And a lot of women have left the workforce, a lot of working previously working moms. And so there's a, there's an untapped labor pool there, and there's this huge labor shortage. And so these are important issues, but they're not easy ones to solve, are they? >> No, no, no. It's something we've been putting a lot of thought into at VMware. So we do have a flexible program that we're rolling out in terms of work. People can come into the office if they want to, of course, you know, where we have offices, where it's safe to do so where the government is allowed that our people can and people can have an actual desk there, or sometimes they can say, hey, I only want to come in once or twice a week. And then we say, okay, we'll have some floating desks that you can take. And others are saying, I want to be fully remote. So we give people a pretty broad range in terms of how they want to address that. But I do think to your point though, and this is something I've been really trying to do already is to create a more inclusive environment by doing a number of different things. And so it's being thoughtful around when you're sending emails 'cause like I do like the, my sort of schedule as I do tend to like fire off a lot of emails late at night after the kids are in bed and get a little quiet time, some thinking time, but I make it very clear that I'm not expecting an immediate response don't worry about it. I'm just, this is my work time. Doesn't have to be your work time. And so really setting those, I guess, boundaries very well explicitly and kind of the, the expectations name is a better term setting that explicitly trying to schedule meetings, not at times where you're going to have to drop the kids off at school or pick them to take over your life. And so we really try to emphasize boundaries and, and really studying those things appropriately. But honestly, it's something that we're still working on and I'm still learning and so I'd love to get feedback from folks, but those are some of the early thinkings. But I would say that we at VMware are taking it very, very seriously and really supporting our employees in terms of navigating that work-life balance. >> Well, okay. Congratulations on the new role and it's great to see you again I hope I hope next year we could be face-to-face always a pleasure to have you on the cube. >> Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it being here. >> Alright and thank you for watching the cubes continuous coverage of VMworld 2021, the virtual edition. Keep it right there for more right after this.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, everyone. Welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, theCUBE Studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with two great guests, Carl Eschenbach, partner at Sequoia Capital on the board of Cohesity as well with the CMO Lynn Lucas. Lynn, great to see you. Carl, thanks for coming back on. >> Great to be here. >> Appreciate it. So Lynn, you know we've been following you guys for many many years, watching the rapid growth of Cohesity. Funding round after funding round, Unicorn. From a start up, to going through the atmosphere heading into orbit, nice growth. >> Mid-size company I would say now. >> Yeah >> Yeah >> No longer a startup. >> Growing like crazy. >> No longer a startup, yeah. >> Good round, good financing track. Thanks to Sequoia. >> Well, we're proud and happy investors and partners with them, that's for sure. >> Yeah, one of the things we're super excited about right now, Lynn I want to get your thoughts on this is that, how do you maintain the growth because cloud is an ever changing landscape, data management's really hot and changing. What's been the success formula for you guys, staying ahead? Both in terms of continuing to push the brand, push the message and success. What's been the formula? >> Well, I think it starts with our founder, Mohit Aron, and his vision and strategy which, if you go back, he's been extraordinarily consistent on and he saw this massive opportunity to take hyper-convergence, which of course he's really the father of from Nutanix and bring it to this whole other area of data, the vast majority of data that enterprises have. That is in all of these different silos and so really I think that Cohesity has this opportunity to be a once in a generation platform company much like VMware and really change the way enterprises, protect, manage, store and ultimately do more with their data. So, I'm going to say it's less about the brand. I'm proud about the brand. But, it's really about... >> You did a great job the brand, but I think the execution is. I think one thing I love about this market cloud in the next ten years ahead of us is that you can come into the market with a feature or a specific thing, like backup and turn it into a broad ranging high-growth, billions dollars of value. I think that's what you guys are on. But I, while we have Carl here, I want to put him on the spot because, you know, of his experience at VMware and now at Sequoia. What's he bringing to the table for Cohesity? What's his operational knowledge? What is some of the things Carl's brought to Cohesity? >> Oh, my gosh. >> What hasn't he brought. >> Well, Carl is obviously incredibly experienced and brings a wealth of go to market knowledge and connections and advice for us. I think instrumental in helping us see how to scale. As well as, change and shift the business model over to software and subscription. Which is what Cohesity did last year and is right in line with the move towards the cloud. >> Carl, your thoughts? >> I have to say one of the things just to echo, so thank you for those kind words. But quite frankly its all about execution and these folks at Cohesity know how to execute. If you just look at their scale over the last three years and their ability to execute. It's pretty impressive, not on the technology side only. But, if you think about their go to market motion and what they've not both here in the U.S., internationally, over into, you know, Asia and in Japan with the joint venture they have with SoftBank and some of the others. It's been amazing to watch them scale and to go market and also the ecosystem that they started to build around them and leveraging partners like HPE and Cisco as Cohesity has transitioned from being an appliance solution to being a software and data management platform and moving the hardware to other partners. It's been amazing to watch that transformation happen. So, it's technology, yes. But, it's also every other component and piece of the business that's been able to scale through good execution. >> Let's talk about the ecosystem, cause I think it's a super important, ever changing conversation. Especially as the bigger players get bigger and then the mid-size folks like you guys get bigger as well. The relationships change. You've certainly seen your share, Carl, at VMware. At VMworld every year, the ecosystem has its growth. It changes over, new value propositions are coming in. You have a constant rotation through the ecosystem dynamic. >> Yeah, no. >> What are some of the going on now that Cohesity's taken advantage of? >> What are they... >> Yeah, so because Cohesity is actually building a true platform as Lynn was articulating. If you're a platform in a data center it means two things. You have to partner with people on the south-bound side of that platform and the north-bound side of the platform because everything's going to go through a platform and because of that you form a very rich ecosystem but you also form sometimes competitors. In this world everyone I think describes it as friends and enemies. They're frenemies and they've done a very good job at that but at the same time they've really focused on key partners like an HPE or a Cisco or many others that can really differentiate themselves and allow them to focus on what they truly are and that's a data management software company. So, I think they've done a really good job navigating the ecosystem and building off of it and aligning with the right people. For example you sit here at VMWworld today. Look at the partnership they have with VMware they have V-ready, you know, certification across vsan, their infrastructure platform. Vcloud Director, AWS, you name it. So, I think they've done a great job and that's thanks to people like Lynn and the team. >> Lynn, talk about the ecosystem dynamic. Because you guys are actively market a big booth every year at VMworld as well as Amazon re:invent and other shows. You have to be out there. What are you hearing? What are some of the dynamics that your working through? >> Well speaking of VMworld and VMware they really were the original ecosystem partner and I think we believe that north of 70 percent of our customers are VMware customers and they're getting better value out of that. But, we haven't talked a lot about the cloud and that's obviously a massive ecosystem that's continuing to develop and bringing those two things together is something that Cohesity specializes in. With our native capabilities, with Amazon, Azure, Google but the other third piece of the ecosystem that we're now developing is the applications and that's unique to Cohesisty really redefining data management. Just announced Cohesity CyberScan based on Tenable running on the Cohesity platform. Prior to the, Splunk, running on the platform. So we're developing these ecosystem partnerships in new ways with application providers. >> So when are we going to see Cohesity world. (laughing) >> I am just so happy to be at Vmworld it's a great place for us to meet a lot of customers and partners. So we'll stay with that. >> Carl you were talking about, before we came on camera, about your first VMworld. You know, oh my god, it's huge, now it's even bigger. This is the opportunity for firms like Cohesity, if they continue the momentum. Building out applications which if you think about it that's an enabling technology. You can enable developers to be successful. That truly is a testament to what a true platform is. >> Yeah, again, I think, she said they don't have a big user conference yet. I don't think it will be long before we such momentum in the market that we will have a user conference at some point. Where you will see a large turnout of people using the technology. People from the ecosystem there and then developers as well and lastly you'll start to see application vendors like a Splunk or a Tenable who are actually now running their applications on top of this. This isn't just data management but it's also supporting applications and when you pull those three different you know constituents together you have a pretty big opportunity to pull off some type of platform show. >> Lynn, I got to put you on the spot here for a minute you got Carl, he's also a partner with Sequoia Venture Capital. What are the pros and cons with working with a big time tier one renowned VC like Sequoia is? Sequoia's Don Valentine is a well documented story. Moritz goes on, the young guns in there now. Get the operating experience from like the Carl's. Pretty established, they got a great business model, you know that. What's the pros and cons of working for the big time Sequoia. >> I've not seen any cons. Pros are as you said the operating experience and I think also the experience in guiding a company through this hyper growth. Cohesity is now well over 1200 employees. Last year, when you and I sat here much less than that, right? And they've seen it and done it before with other partners or with other portfolio companies that I think is one of the best pieces of advice that Carl has given us coming into our company is how to maintain that culture and that focus on the mission as we move through this tremendous growth phase. >> That's interesting, Sequoia loves you when your growing but then, but they've seen success. The cons haven't come yet. But, if you continue to grow there will be no cons. Everyone's happy and growing. But, I want to get your thoughts because Sequoia also builds world-class companies and they also, Apple the names are legendary. Your founder on theCUBE told me that he doesn't just want to get an exit. He wants to build world class company. >> That's right >> Well, exit is not as important as like EMEA. But in like public that happens. He's not in it for the cash. He wants build a durable world class company. >> That's exactly right, right Mohit has had a number of successes, Google, Nutanix. So he's not in this for the short return and we really are focused on building a culture and a set of values and a long term sustainable business and he really means what he says about. He's here to change the world and data is the foundation of what most businesses are going to compete on and he believes he can really empower organizations to do that and we can build a great culture and a great company while were helping. >> Carl when you hear that.. >> I want to piggyback off what Lynn just said and its exactly what Lynn articulated about Mohit to want to build a big enduring company that stands the test of time. If you look at our ethos at Sequoia we want to partner with founders from idea to IPO and beyond. We're not looking for a quit hit, a quick win. We want to be with them through IPO and beyond and build big legendary companies that stand the test of time and in the form of Cohesity we have that opportunity and we're well on that path to build a legendary platform company that will service both the enterprise in the cloud companies into the future. That's our mission, so I think our missions are aligned. >> Well you just answered the question I was going to ask you. That is music to your ears this is the kind of model you guys want and certainly you guys do a good job of exiting out on EMEA and doing, making your LPs a lot of money. You got to make money. >> Right, but, you know a lot of people think when our companies go public this is an exit for us. It's just an event. If we believe in the companies were going to hold long into the public market from that idea and that seed investment, like we did here at Cohesity, well beyond the IPO. >> There's a renaissance going on , I love it because two things are happening in this next 10 years. You seen a systems platform mindset come back versus the quick hits and also people want to build big companies they don't want to do the quick flips anymore. So at lot of young entrepreneurs are, they are in it for a mission. This is a new vibe. What kind of advice do you give entrepreneurs that are looking to bring that Cohesity model and get the attention of Sequoia? What are some of the things that you see as success for the young entrepreneurs out there? >> Yeah, so it is around the word mission. Like we want to partner with people that are mission driven that are going to have a huge impact on business and society as a whole and even you know the social efforts in our world. So were looking for people that want to change the trajectory of whatever it is they are addressing and we think for example with Cohesity there's a radical transformation taking place in the infrastructure and someone's got to innovate because a lot of innovators today are not coming from the incumbent it's coming from the next generation of founders like Mohit and he's very mission driven. Build a big company, service a community of people change the way people store and think about data and manage it and that mission-centric founder is one we love to partner with. >> Final question I'd love to get both your take on this question, Lynn and Carl is. When you meet someone that may not be inside the ropes of technology like the enterprise tech like we are the few and others and they ask you the question "Why is Cohesity so successful?" How do you describe the dynamics of the marketplace and Cohesity's role in it on it's success? What is the answer to that question? >> I think it's really two things. So one is I think that there is this generational shift in the architecture that underpins data and we've got a perfect storm with data doing exponential growth and as Carl's been saying there really hasn't been a lot of innovation in the infrastructure in more than a decade. Mohit saw that, but then that's combined with a mission, a passion for customers and sticking to that execution of serving the customer and that's making us successful. >> Carl your thoughts after that. >> Listen, it starts with technology and to have great technology you have to have a great technical founder and we have that in Mohit, time and time again. I can go, we've all talked about Mohit and how special he is. At the same time you need to build a company that has a special culture, that can stand the test of time, that is resilient, that has grit and has passion and perseverance for the work their doing around their mission and I think we have all of that in Cohesity and that's a lot of it's because of Mohit and people like Lynn that he's brought in around his executive team. You can just see that permeate through the entire organization. >> That's awesome. Thanks for sharing the insight. Carl, great to have you comment here with Lynn on Cohesity, I know your on the board. Lot of great things happening, looking to see what's happening at the VMware parties. Thanks for hosting some awesome events for the community. >> Can't wait to be back. Bring some of our customers on. >> Thanks for spending the time. This is theCUBE Conversation here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE. We are live in Washington, D.C. at Amazon Web Services, AWS Public Sector Summit. This is their big event, this is their reinvent for the public sector, but it's technically a summit. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Craig Atkinson who is the CEO of JHC Technologies, small business partner doing huge deals. Great to have you on, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> So, you guys have a lot of experience working on the front lines with some really big deployments, implementations with cloud, working with some agencies. So, first question right out of the gate is, is this really happening, this cloud thing? >> Yeah absolutely, you know, we started the company in 2010 and one of my partners and I worked on recovery.gov as a cloud engineer and it was just something that, at the time, no one knew what the cloud was and we really looked at it as an opportunity when we started the business. This is where things are going to go. We didn't realize when we started the company, though, as a small business, you can't just get started and say, yeah, we know the cloud and can help you do these things. You have to have past performance, you have to have relationships. And so, it's taken so long for the government to get around to the point where they're really just starting now to put a lot of larger production workloads into the cloud. And it's been a long journey where you've had, it's like Groundhog Day, you have the same conversation over and over again with different people and different organizations about security, about compliance, about a variety of issues, how you procure it and everyone has the same questions, has the same problems and it's so much about education. >> Yeah, and saving time and there's a lot of upfront medicine you got to take. Like you said, if you're new, it's like a jungle, oh, wait a minute, I thought it was going to be easier. What was the key motivational point, how did you keep going, what was the driving force? Was it Amazon tailwind for you, was it more of... >> Our relationship with Amazon Web Services has been great. They've been a tremendous supporter of us. And, as a small business, you know, they really relied on their partners to be a force multiplier for them in the public sector space, And that's been tremendous for us. They've really allowed us to play... >> And that's true, that's actually, they're doing that. >> Absolutely, and not necessarily the case as much on the commercial side where they're more apt to deal directly with the customers. But, they really relied on the partner network, partner ecosystem, on the public sector space to really help them drive things forward. So, for us, to have that relationship has been tremendous value for us. But also, we do things and allow those to broaden the group and what we have from a vehicles perspective, small business set of size that allow us to do business with organizations that AWS can't. >> Well I think I'm going to explain what you guys do, great commentary on the cloud and your opportunity. What do you guys do for services, what kind of services are you providing, and can you take a minute to talk about the company. >> Sure, we started the company in 2010, really it was my two partners and I, we'd been consultants in the IT industry, and worked in the beltway, and felt like we should do a company that was different than everyone else, more of a commercial style focused entity, where it's about the technology and how do you bring that disruptive technology to government and business so that they can take advantage of it as opposed to being overwhelmed by it, and the cloud is really that underlying core technology that really affects, it's really a paradigm shift for how organizations do business. So for us, that's the area we wanted to get into, and we did a lot around mobility, a lot around collaboration, virtualization, virtual apps, virtual desktops, but really at the end of the day, the cloud-- >> Are you guys writing software, are you an integrator? >> Well, we're really, it was about building a company that technologists, who are in this area, there's some great smart people who work in the D.C. area, people will, in the Beltway, you'll sit at a desk, doing a job, for five years, your company will lose that contract to some other company, you'll stay in the same seat, you'll go work for a different company for the next five years. Somebody else will win the contract and you'll stay in that same seat. So, you're really working for the agency and not really working for the company that you're employed by, and we really wanted to build something that was more commercial-esque where it was about what do you bring to me as an organization, how do I put you in a position that you're challenged by the workload that's in front of you that you get to do different things and that you're more upwardly mobile as opposed to just being a butt in a seat, as with a lot of, what work they call it. >> So this morning, Theresa showed a slide, I think I counted 60 consulting partners. Now you guys have achieved a premier consulting partners status, you're not like a everyday name, like some of the big guys that are on there, so how did you achieve that, how do you differentiate, in that sea of really world-class consultants, and how do you achieve that premier status with AWS? >> It's been a lot of work for us. There are some organizations that have gotten it just based off their size. AWS needs to have those larger partners. But we, I think we really did earn it, we've met every requirement to get to that status and for us, it's a huge badge of honor that we've achieved that, and it's a lot of hard work for a small company. We're coming up on 70 employees, so we're not 10,000, 20,000 employee environment, so for us to achieve that and have the level of sales that we do in the space, it's certainly not easy, it's really being singularly focused on the vision of how we want to run the company and sticking to that, even though the market may try to push you other directions, and even your customers say we're not ready for cloud, you have to really stick to it and be focused on that being your core business. >> You talked about moving production workloads to the cloud earlier. I wonder if you could help us sort of squint through that because when you talk to what Andy Jassy calls the Old Guard, John, right, they all say, people aren't moving production workloads to the cloud. When you talk to AWS, you just referenced, production workloads are going into the cloud. I like to talk to consultants that are at least quasi-independent. What's really happening there? What kind of production workloads are going into the cloud? >> I think we're just now hitting that part of the market, where we're starting to see more of the large scale production workloads being moved to the cloud. We moved our first organization, 2500 user environment, that we moved to the cloud three, four years ago, so for us, being able to do that kind of workload to be all in on the cloud, isn't something that we shied away from. But when you started to deal with a lot of these organizations, we have prime contracts with NOAA, which has massive data, U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and working with the USGS, some of these agencies have massive data, they're just weren't really built as an organization to be able to adopt that cloud technology, so we really looked at it a couple years ago, and made a bit of a conscious effort to help to push them as an organization to help them understand the structure of how they need to really build their organization. We're very much an I till shop, how you build an IT process, but even with that, it doesn't really take in innovative technology. The speed at which AWS innovates and produces new technology, new features, is something that I don't think that anyone has seen before in an IT realm, so, building an organization that's able to understand that, to be able to implement that technology and be in a compliant manner to make it available to their application owners and their users is something that you really have to have the right organizational structure to be able to achieve. >> And why is that not a problem for AWS customers, your customers, because if a legacy IT vendor, first of all, they can't innovate that fast, but if they were to innovate that fast, they tend to move at a much slower speed, the IT organizations that buy from them. Why is that pace of innovation not problematic for your customers? >> I think it is, and again I think, our challenge has been to help them to build the type of an organization that can respond to that, knowing that there's one constant in IT technology today, which is change. Whatever's here today is going to be different tomorrow. There's going to be new features, and you have to be able to build an organization that isn't just we're going to build a data center, build a bunch of firewalls around it, put our data there and we're going to be safe. Today's IT landscape moves too quickly. You really have to build, look to the way it's done in the commercial enterprises, the way a Netflix builds really to be destructive and how they build their technology, knowing it's going to fail, and look to do that same type of implementation, help build your security within a federal organization. >> You're going to change the culture and process, everything all at once with new tech, so I want to ask you the question that's in everyone's mind, mine included, what's your observation of the current state of affairs with respect to the cloud native and cloud because you've got people who might jump on it, say I love this, some'll be fearful, you're there, what's the new aha moment that people are having, can you share some insight into (laughs) what's going on in the mind and the actual implementations, what's changed, what's the most important story that we should be telling? >> We're right now at that point. I think I've heard reports less than 7% of the data center workloads have been moved to infrastructures of service. I think that's probably even on the high side, 7%, but you're now starting to get all of the work that we've done, a lot of these organizations is they've been pilots, proof of concepts, really dipping their toe, large organizations just dipping their toe in the water. We're getting to the point now where these organizations are approaching their primary applications for their organization saying we're ready to move that too. For us it's a lot, it's been so much education so much work to try to help get them there, so for us we're just excited to actually see it come to fruition. >> In 2010, around the time you started your company, I remember, John, VM Ware, at the time Paul Moritz was saying any app, any workload will run on VM Ware, and there were a lot of skeptics, and they've largely achieved that, remember they used to talk about the software mainframe. You know with the cloud, similar kind of narrative. Now it's a little different now, let's take the example of Oracle in particular, you're seeing Oracle use for example its pricing power to really try to force people to use its own cloud jacking up prices if they want to use it on Amazon. What do you tell customers that are basically reliant on that Oracle database? Should they move that into the cloud, should they try to figure out okay let's go to Aurora or Redshift, or some other better, what's the right strategy? >> So I mean we're a technology agnostic, generally speaking-- >> Right that's why I can trust your answer here. >> But we really do lean to where what we call best in breed technologies. So AWS has been something that we've been all in on AWS since 2011, 2012. We made that a conscious effort and they've really done some things I think as part of their business model that we really appreciate as a partner, and as a customer. We've always had our infrastructure from day one on AWS. Also our infrastructure on Office 365. We understand where to focus those efforts. When it comes to an organization like an Oracle, I don't want to necessarily disparage them, but they're not necessarily focused on bringing the best value to their customers. A lot of times it seems that it's about what's right for the bottom line of their stockholders and what drives up the price of their stock as opposed to what's the best solution I could put forward to really be great at database. I think if you look at it, AWS has already built a roadmap to where you can get 70-80% of your database applications to be migrated to an open software database model, and you can massively reduce, so many of these large organizations, a large portion of their IT spend is on those Oracle and those specialty applications. >> It's the licenses too. >> So if you can drop that cost by 60, 70%. What we always tell those organizations, don't just throw that money away, take those savings, roll that into making a better application. Use that 60, 70% savings and fix how you deliver. Make your data more mobile, make it more available to your userbase. >> Invest in analytics. >> Invest back in how you're doing, using Redshift or whatever other analytics, to get better results. >> Awesome, Craig, great insight, congratulations on your success at JHC Technologies, you're the founder and CEO of, congratulations on all the hard work, you got to just, I don't want to say do your time, I've heard that quoted in the government sector, you got to do your time, time's shrinking with the cloud, so you've got a great opportunity. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, for having me. >> You're watching theCUBE here live in Washington, D.C. I'm John Furrier, stay with us, day one here is continuing, be right back. (synth music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to by VMware and its ecosystem partners. (upbeat techno music) >> Okay, we're live here at VMworld 2017's theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2017. I'm John Furrier. My hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. We've got two sets kicking off live here in Las Vegas for our eighth year of coverage. Boomy, we're in the broadcast booth at the Mandalay Bay. Guys, we're here to kick off the show. Three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Three days of great keynotes. Today, big surprise, Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon Web Services joined Pat Gelsinger on stage in a surprise announcement together, hugging each other before they talked and even after they talked. This partnership is going to be big. We're going to have coverage, in-depth analysis of that. Dave, VMWorld is now the cloud show with re:Invent. If you look at what's going on, Stu, you've been to many, many shows. This is our eighth year. This was the show. Great community. Now re:Invent has been called the new VMWorld. You put 'em both together, it's really the only cloud show that matters. Google does not have yet a presence. Microsoft has all these shows that are kind of spread all over the place. All the top people are here in IT and cloud at VMWorld and at re:Invent coming up in December. >> Well, John, eight years ago we talked about is this the last stop for IT before cloud just decimates it? And if you go back two years ago, VMware was not in favor. The stock was half of what it is today. Licensed revenue was down 1%. Fast forward to today, it's growing at 10 to 12% a year. Licenses up 13%. It's throwing off operating cash flow at $3 Billion a year. The market's booming. Wall Street's talking VMware now being and undervalued stock. The big question is, is this a fundamental shift in customer mindsets? In other words, are they saying, "Hey, we want to bring the cloud operating model to the business and not try to force our business into the cloud." Or, is this the last gap of onprem. >> Stu, I want to get your thoughts cause I want, squinting through the announcements and all the hype and all the posturing from the vendors is I was looking for, where's hybrid in all this? Where's the growth? And, my validation point on the keynote was when we heard very few words hybrid. Private, on premise was the focus. You guys put out at Wikibon a report called True Private Cloud, Market Sizing. Kind of lay out, that's where the growth is. But, I tweeted private cloud is the gateway drug to hybrid. We're seeing customers now wanting to do hybrid, but they got to do their homework first. They got to do the building blocks on premise, and that is what your calling True Private Cloud. Do you agree? And your thoughts. >> Yeah, so, really good points, John. And the nuance here, 'cause if I'm VMware, I've got a great position in the data center. 500,000 customers. Absolutely, the growth is the move from legacy to True Private Cloud. The challenge for VMware is they already have 500,000 customers there. Those are the customers that are making that shift. So it does not increase vSphere. One of the key things for me, is Pat said, "What vSphere had done for the last 20 years, is what NSX is going to do for the next 10 years, or more." Because they're betting on networking, security, some of these multi-cloud services that they announced. How do those expand VMware so that as True Private Cloud grows and they also do public cloud, VMware has a bigger seat at the table, not just saying "Wait, my customers are shifting. Where are they going?" >> Dave, I want to get your thoughts. You and I talk about all the time on camera, and also privately, about waves. We've been through many waves in the industry. We've seen a lot of waves. Pat Gelsinger has seen many waves, too. Let's talk about Pat Gelsinger because, interesting little tidbits inside the stage area. One, he said "I want to thank you for being the CEO of this company." Stu, you made a comment that this is the first VMWorld where there's not a rumor that Pat's not going to be the CEO. He's kind of kickin' ass and takin' names right now. Stock's up and he put the wave slide out there. And wave slides to me, you can tell the senior management's kind of mojo by how well laid out the wave slide is. He put up a slide on one side. Mainframe mini computer cloud. And the other side client server, internet, IoT Edge. He nailed it, I think. Pat Gelsinger is going to go down as being one of the most brilliant stroke of genius by looking at either laying down what looked like a data center position, and some say capitulate, to Jassy, who's smiling up there saying, "Bring those customers to Amazon." But this is a real partnership. So, Pat Gelsinger, go big or go home. You can't be any bigger, bold bet that Pat Gelsinger right now with VMware, and it looks like it's paying out. What's your thoughts on Pat Gelsinger, the wave and his bold bet? >> Well, I think that businesses are configuring the cloud, John, to the realities of the data. And the data, most of the data, is on prem. So the big question I have it, how is Amazon going to respond to this? And Stu, you and Furrier have had debates over the years. Furrier has said flat out, Amazon is going to do a True Private Cloud, just like Azure Stack. You have said, no. But if Amazon doesn't do that, I think that Pat Gelsinger's going to look like a genius. If they do do that, it's going to become an increasingly more competitive relationship than it is right now. >> Yeah, just a little bit of the inside baseball. Kudos to VMware for getting this VMware on AW out. I hear it was a sprint to the finish because taking cloud foundation, which is kind of a big piece. It's got the VSAN, the NSX, all that stuff, and putting it in a virtual private data center. Amazon owns the data center. They give them servers. This was a heavy lift. NSX, some of the pieces are still kind of early, but getting this out the door, limited availability. It's one data center. They're going to roll out services, but to Dave's point, right, where does this go down the road? Is this Amazon sticking a straw into 500,000 data centers and saying, "Come on in. You know that we've got great services, and this is awesome." 'Cause, I don't see Amazon re-writing their linux stuff to be all native VMware, So, where will this partnership mature? Andy said, "We're going to listen to our customers." "We're going to do what you're asking us." And absolutely today VMware and Amazon, two of these strongest players in the ecosystem today, they're going to listen to their customers. Google, Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, all in the wings fighting for these customers, so it's battle royale. >> You know the straw is in there, John, what's your take, and where do the developers fit in this? >> Well Stu wrote a good point, inside baseball, the key is that success with Amazon was critical. Jassy said basically, this is not a Barney deal, which he kind of modernized by saying most deals are optical really hitting at Microsoft on this one and Google. I mean, they're groping for relevance. It's clear that they're way behind. Everyone's trying to follow these guys. But, on the heels of Vcloud Air, it was critical that they get stake in the ground with Amazon. They took a lot of heat for the Vcloud Air, Stu. This had to get done. Now, my take on this is that, I think it's a genius move. I think Pat Gelsinger, by betting the ranch on Amazon, will go down in history as being a great move. You heard that here, 2017. He's so smart, he wants to be a component of the Amazon takeover, which will happen. It'll be a two-cloud game, maybe three, maybe four, we'll see, but mainly two. But the ecosystem partners on this phase one is key. DXT, Deloitte, Accenture, Capgemini, and then you start to see the logos coming in. They have so many logos, you have to break them down. But more importantly the white space. devops, migration cost, network security and data protection are all filled in with plenty more room for more players. I think this is where the ecosystem was lagging just a few years ago. You saw the shift in the tide. Now you're seeing the ecosystem going, "Wow, I get what VMware's doing. I'm doubling down." It's an Amazon Web Services, VMWare world. All the other cloud players, in my opinion, are really fumbling the ball. >> So, I can infer from that, you see this as a balanced partnerhip i.e. that's not like one needs more than the other. I mean, clearly, Amazon needs VMWARE to reach those 500,000 customers, and clearly, VMware needs a cloud strategy because Vcloud Air and many other attempts have failed. Yes, we said that. It's failed, we asked Pat about that. So, you see it as a more balanced partnership. Do you see that balance of power shifting over time a that straw gets bigger and bigger and bigger. >> Well the Walking Dead or as the Game of Thrones reference going on is kind of the Gray War is happening in cloud. And it really is going to become Amazon versus whoever they can partner with, and the rest of the legacy world. I think the wave slide was impressive to me because this is such a shift from just distributed computing now decentralized with blockchain and AI looming as massive disrupts, I think this is only going to get more decentralized. So whoever has tech that's legacy, will ultimately be toast. And I think Gelsinger's smart to see that wave, and I'm starting to see the movement. It's super early, so, no big bets. It's just be directionally correct and ride that wave. >> Yeah, so, one of the things that got me is last year, it kind of went under the radar that VMware is starting to launch some cloud services, and were very direct, today, that they said there are seven, basically SaaS offerings. It's security, it's cost management. Now, VMWare on AWS, little expensive. We're starting to get the data on how much it is per month or per year or for three-year. But going to have the SaaS offerings. We know Vcloud Air failed, also Paul Moritz had played the Microsoft game. We're going to get this suite of applications. We're going to give you email. We're going to give you, you know, social. We're going to give you all these things. They're all gone. Kind of cleared the table of all those. Now they've got these SaaS applications, so how will that play. I kind of like Pat, very up front on security, and said, "As an industry, we have failed you." Dave, you've been looking at this for a long time. It's a board-level discussion. It's a do-over for security. Does VMware have the chops to play in this space, Dave? Do you buy them as a, you know, valid SaaS provider? >> Well, two questions there. One is in the security front that great tech is always going to get beat by bad user behavior. So this is a board-level issue. As far as SaaS, to me, it's a business model issue that VMware is migrating its business to a routable business model, which is smart. I don't see it as SaaS as an applications, but I see it as a monthly fee. Better to get ahead of it now, while you're hot, than get crushed by Wall Street as you're trying to make that transition like many other companies have failed to do. >> Guys, one thing I want to note is that VMware also laid out their strategy. You kind of heard it there even though that Jassy came on stage. A look it, Jassy's not an idiot, he's smart. He knows what's going on. He knows that he has to win VMware over because VMware ... he's got to balance it. Got 'em in the back pocket on one hand, got a great relationship, Stu, 500,000 customers. Remember, VMware is also an arms dealer. They got the ops, IT operations locked down with their customers. So they have other clouds they can go to. SO, the big trend that we didn't hear, that's out there kind of hiding in plain site is multi-cloud. Multi-cloud is ultimately VMware's strategy. He laid out, one, make private cloud easy. You guys reported on that. Two, deep partnerships with major cloud providers. And three, expand the ecosystem. >> John, so I mean a little bit of kind of rumors I heard. They were actually looking to make the partnership not with AWS at first, it was going to be Google. And Michael Dell said, "If we're going to start with a cloud deal, it's going to be Amazon." The right move, absolutely, that's where it's going to be. But you remember last year, we were here. John, you and I, the announcement was with IBM. Now, no offense to SoftLayer, great acquisition. It's doing well, but IBM does not play at the level of an Amazon. They might have the revenue of a Google in cloud, but, you know, very different positioning. They were up on stage talking about security today. Great position there with analytics. But, we'll see, there's two more days of keynotes. I expect we'll see another cloud provider making some announcements with VMware. And VMware absolutely an arms dealer. They put out on the slide all of their service providers. We've got people like CenturyLink and OVH and Rackspace on theCUBE this week, as well as how their going to play with the Microsoft Google. You've got Michael Dell on tomorrow. I know you're going to talk to him about how Dell fits with Azure Stack, and how the Dell whole family is going to play across all of these because at the end of the day, Michael Dell, and Pat working for him, they want to keep getting revenue no matter who's the winner out there. >> Okay final question as we wrap up the segment. Customers are that watching here, it's clear to me that, we even heard from one on stage, saying, "Well, we're taking baby steps." That wasn't her exact words, but, their going slow to hybrid cloud. All the actions on private as you guys pointed out in our True Private Cloud report on Wikibon.com If you haven't seen it, go check it out, it's going viral. But, this is classic slowness of most enterprise customers. When there's doubt, they slow down. And, one of the things that concerns me, Stu, about the cloud guys right now, whether it's AWS, Google, and Microsoft, is the market's moving so fast, that if these clouds aren't dead simple easy to use, the customers aren't going to go to hybrid. They're going to go back to their comfort zone, which is the true private cloud, going to build that base. It's just got to get easier to manage. It's got to get easier to multi-cloud. And the bottom line is that Amazon's clearly in the lead. So, Jassy has a window right now to run the table on enterprise. He's got about 18-24 months, but Google's putting the pedal to the metal. I mean they're pedaling as fast as they can. Microsoft's cobbling together their legacy, okay, running as fast as they can. But there's this economies of scale, Stu, for them. Your thoughts and reactions. >> Yeah, so, I always thought enterprise simplicity is actually an oxymoron, does not exist. This VMware community, one of the things people loved about it, they were builders. They were all like get in there, and I tweak that. Harvard Business School calls it the Ikea effect. If I help build it just enough, I actually love it a little bit more. VMware's not simple. NSX, hitting about a billion dollars when you get into it is not easy. Security and networking are never going to be you know dirt simple. Amazon, we thought it was real simple, now thousands of services. Absolutely, we've been at that ecosystem for many years. It gets tougher and tougher the more you get into it. And, John, some of the builders there, the developers there, they get in. There's lot of room for this ecosystem to build around that. Because one of the things we talk about as VMware goes to some of these clouds. Where do they get that ecosystem? You mentioned some of the systems integrators, but the rest of the channel, where can they make money? And trying to help, because it's not simple, how do they help get opinionated, make those choices, build it all together. There's professional services dollars there. There's ways to help consult with companies there. >> Ecosystem is the key point. Watch the ecosystem and how that's forming around cloud, hybrid cloud, true private cloud, whatever you want to call it. And then, again, the technology's maturing. It's all about the people and the process to actually affect so called cloud, hybrid cloud, bringing the cloud model to the data, not forcing your business into cloud. >> We got to wrap up here. We've also got Lisa Martin and Keith Townsend and John Troyer, and we got some community guests as well, joining like we did last year. So this will be great. But I want to put something out there, guys, so we can hit up tomorrow and tease it out. I worry about when you have these fast waves that are coming through and the velocity is phenomenal right now. Is that, what tends to crumble, Dave, to your ecosystem point, are these foundations. When you have these industry consortiums, it's kind of like it's political. They've got boards and multiple fingers in it. That could be the suffering point, in my opinion. And that points directly at Cloud Foundry. Cloud Foundry, OpenStack, some of these consortium groups are at risk, in my opinion, if it goes too fast. Stu, to your point. Kubernetes has got great traction. You've got Containers. Dockers got a new CEO. Uber's got a new CEO. I mean the world is moving so fast. So, rhetorical question, industry consortiums. Do they suffer, or do they win in this environment? >> Depends on what they're doing, right? If they're low-level technical standards that advance the industry, I think they do win. I think if it's posturing, and co-opetition, and trying to cut off the one vendor at the knees, it loses. >> Stu, real quick, consortiums. Win or lose in this environment? >> Yeah, we've seen some that have done quite well, and some that have been horrific. So, absolutely, if it gets way too political. Open source has done some really good things, but the foundations, once they get in there, it's challenging and, I'd say, more times than not, they don't help. >> Well, we're in theCUBE. We're breaking it down. We're going to be squinting through all the announcements looking at where the meat on the bone is, where the action is and the relevance and the impact to enterprises and emerging tech. This is theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman and Dave Vellante. We're back with more live coverage. Day one, after this short break. (techy music)

>> Narrator: Live from Washington, DC, It's The Cube, covering .NEXT Conference. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, everybody. This is day 2 of the Nutanix .NEXT Conference, #NEXTConf. This is The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage and my name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Stu Miniman. As I said, this is day 2 and today, the keynotes were in the morning. Yesterday, they were in the afternoon. So, when we left you yesterday we went right in the keynotes with CEO Dheeraj Pandey, who gave a very, as he always does, Stu, a very philosophical deep discussion, a lot of commentary from thought leaders and some customers. Somewhat long, although shorter than last year, but that's Nutanix likes to do things. They want you to bake and savor what's going on in their community and their ecosystem. Today, it was all about product. Sunil Potti got up and he basically took us through the products, the new innovations, the strategies, and that's what we're going to unpack this morning in the next couple of minutes and then go deeper throughout the day. So, Stu, it's all about cloud. Two years ago, at the first, the inaugural .NEXT Conference, Nutanix laid out a strategy of moving beyond hyper-converged infrastructure. This is at a time when everybody was pivoting to hyper-converged from the traditional converged, or the legacy infrastructure. And they laid this long term, little bit fuzzy vision about supporting cloud and multi-cloud. At the time, it was really focused on migrating off of VMware onto other platforms, but they sort of teased us with a vision of cloud. Today, we saw that vision come into a little bit more clarity, but there's still a lot of questions. Give me your summary on the keynote today and specifically, this Nutanix strategy of being the cloud operating system. >> And Dave, I think vision is the right term because unlike previous announcements by Nutanix, a lot of what they laid out here are things that in development. The two big announcements that they talked about yesterday and went through a little bit more today, Calm, which was an acquisition that they had made last year really, to be able to help them try to be that management across multi-clouds. That's in process I believe, if I remember right, it's the second half of this year, it will be shipping. I got a note from a friend of mine, and they're like, okay this is the 687th product in the industry that's trying to solve this problem because everybody is trying to solve this problem. Microsoft wants to be the player here. Companies like CA want to be in the lead here. Of course, Amazon would like to manage everything because just put it on Amazon. So, why is Nutanix position to be the control playing layer of a multi-cloud world. Nutanix is a small player. They've got some good pieces. They're starting to touch some of the environment, but I'm not sure. In the second one, the zee or jee cloud services, that's not- >> Zee, Si, jee (laughs) ... >> It's spelled X-I and we've heard multiple pronunciations. We'll get Sunil on this and get him- >> X-I is, as you told me this morning, the last two letters of Nutanix flipped. >> Yeah, so, it's a DR service that they're going to deploy. It's in development right now. I don't think we know anything about pricing yet. It's not going to ship until the first half of next year, is the target for that. But really lays out, as to, I think we really want to get to the Google relationship and beyond. How does Nutanix get to be more than just an on premises infrastructure layer. They've already sold to service providers. I've talked to companies that not only build their infrastructure, but sell services based on using Nutanix as an infrastructure, but they're going to take that full Nutanix stack and make it available in Google data centers around the world, and we expect them to expand those partnerships and what Sunil was hitting on at the end of his keynote is, the terminology they used is your cloud native, your mode one applications, a lot of times those start in the public cloud, and sometimes those come back to an infrastructure like in Nutanix, where I can run it in a similar operational model. And then, do we take our mode two applications, the big legacy, the thousands of applications that we have, do we try to shove those in to the public cloud? And the challenge there is if it's not the same stack on both ends, it's not the same operating model, there's challenges and I know we wanted to use that out a little bit. >> So, Stu, I had a conversation with Paul Moritz in 2009, where he said to me, "The advantage that Amazon and Google and Facebook have is that they have homogeneity in their data centers." And he said, "For us to succeed in cloud, we have to have homogeneity in both on prim and in the cloud." And so he, at that point, indicated that the VMware strategy was going to be putting, essentially, VMware in these clouds and the cloud service providers, as we all know, that manifested itself in vCloud Air. We've heard the story before. How is this different? >> First of all, vCloud Air, most people would agree, a failed strategy. >> Who would not agree with that? (laughs) >> Right. The biggest challenges we saw on vCloud Air when I talked to the community is VMware said, "Wait, we're going to build it ourselves and run it," and customers were like well, I've got lots of partners, and they're like, well, we'll partner with Savvis. And Savvis made no margin on this. Couldn't do anything else. They tried to go to lots of other service providers, and they were, I don't know how I add services, I don't know how I add value. >> So, how is this different? >> You look at this and say okay, well, Nutanix is going to start with building it themselves because they want to understand it. I've talked to service providers here that say, "Hey Nutanix, we have experience and we know how to do this. We could advise you on this." Of course, Nutanix, they didn't come out and say this is the future, everybody run every service on this. They say, hey, we're working on a DR solution, we're a little bit measured. This is where we're going. I think there's time for it to mature, time for Nutanix to work with their partner Ecosystems. The Google announcement gives Nutanix credibility, but a lot of it is pressure leased slideware, if you will. You say, "Okay, great, I'm going to take Z and run it on GCP." Well, this is a product next year that, maybe, will probably run somewhere with Google. Where's the details? >> Okay, talk about lift and shifts, too. >> Thanks Dave. We talked yesterday to one of the doers, one of the practitioners of Nutanix, and they said, "Hey, I'm looking at containers." And we said, "Hey, are you looking at Nutanix for this?" They say, "Well, now that I hear they're working with Google, who's obviously a thought leader in driving that, that will drive them closer to us." So, question is, the Z cloud service is based on AHV. So, if I bought in, there are some customers who say "I want a virtualized environment that I can mirror," but most of us look at it and say virtualization is kind of heavy for taking something to more the public cloud. If I containerized, then I can use kubernetes, and I can move applications a little more. Debate we're having internally, Dave, often is how much of the stack do I have to have to complete hardware all the way through on both ends? Do I have something like kubernetes, which allows me to take containerized applications and move them, because lift and shift, I was at the Cloud Foundry Summit, and it said let me build my new applications on the platform, and then I'll start migrating some over so I have that shared management platform to hold the environment. But, it's challenging. The same thing we've had discussions. Amazon, there's certain applications we build there, Amazon would love you to take all of your applications, but it's not trivial. Porting something over is not easy, is one of the points that Nutanix was making, and we've heard from the community that Amazon really doesn't want you just to trying to lift the whole thing and shift it. You should be doing some refactoring, or start pulling apart your application- >> They want you to pull change the operating model. So, Stu, is this a blind spot for Nutanix? Let me back up. We asked Pat Gelsinger, when Docker and Core OS came on the scene, what does that mean for you? He said, "Hey, we've got the best container in the world. It's VMware." And we all kind of went, mm, I don't know. Is this a similar head wind potentially? Is this a threat that Nutanix is so VM focused versus containerize? Or can they just embrace containers? >> Great question. Something I want to pose to the Nutanix executives, Dave, because there's multiple paths forward. When we asked Amazon a similar question, they said to get from your legacy data centers to public cloud, here are the eight R's, as to refactor, re-platform, redo this, things like that. There's more than one solution. As we know, customers have lots of applications. There's some that you're going to leave them sitting on. That old hardware in the back corner and run it until that thing burns into the ground. >> Running on CMS. >> Absolutely, Dave. Many of those things got moved into VM environments and are going to stay there for awhile. So, unfortunately, everything in IT tends to be additive, and we've got all of the debt of ... >> Don Tapscott. God created the world in six days, but he didn't have an install base. The technical debt. >> Technical debt. >> All right, Stu, we got to wrap. This is day two of Nutanix. We're going all day long. Today, heavy executive, partner and customer day. We have Sunil coming on. We're going to go deep on products. Chad Sakac coming on from Dell-EMC. We got Dheeraj, of course, the CEO. Stay tuned, everybody. Stu Minima, Dave Vellante. We'll be right back after this short break.

>>The cute presents on the ground. Here's your host, John furrier. >>Hello, I'm John foray with Silicon angle media, the cube, and we are here for an Inn at the Ritz Carlton in San Francisco for the special exclusive press event with Andy Jassy. And the special announcement was Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware announcing what, in my opinion is probably the biggest, most historic announcement in the industry. And certainly for VMware as the future migration to the cloud migration of the next generation infrastructure continues. Uh, and so big, significant as exclusive. I'm having a one-on-one interview with Andy and Pat shortly, but I had a chance to grab the chief architect of this deal. One of the many that the lead EVP and general manager. So I don't think it's an, a Ragu Ragu Ragu around welcome, uh, to see, great to see you. Thanks for spending the time to see you. Thanks. So Ragu you're, you're an old timer VMware, but now you're also architecting. What looks to be the bridge to the future for VMware? Um, this relationship with AWS, Amazon web services puts VMware in the cloud the best, the best, most functional best, biggest public cloud, and most robust capabilities immediately in Amazon available mid 2017. But this is a path instantly for all of the and where customers, um, what's when did this all start and what motivated you to architect this? >>Yeah, I mean, um, as you recall, the past VMware, we announced our cross-cloud architecture and the idea that customers, enterprise customers want choice with control, right? The legwork for that was done, um, over a year ago, right? When we internally, we finalized our strategy to enable our platform to run in multiple different, uh, clouds, such as our weekend partner network and IBM and now AWS. So that's when we all started around this. But the key idea here is for customers that are increasingly putting a variety of workloads from the, in their private cloud, in their public cloud, you want to have a consistent way of running and managing and securing and operating these applications. And as you just pointed out, one of the biggest cloud providers for our customer is AWS. And so this was a natural partnership from that point of view. >>So one of my favorite tweets out there for us from, you know, obviously Dave Alante co-host of the cube, he said, um, please allow me to translate. He was translating from a customer, went help our customer impact one. You've squeezed the blood from the data center stone with virtualization. You've done all you can. This is my customer translation, too. You have, um, a legacy amount of VMware processes and procedures and software, AKA VMware, three year Jones, and for the agility and innovation of AWS, come on in the water's nice and warm. So essentially it's kind of tongue in cheek, but you know, the data center is, has been maxed out. So data center consolidation, certainly people don't want to be in the data center business, but they want the benefits of a data center with the cloud. You guys are not providing that. What is the impact to customers because they are jonesing for innovation that Jones and from microservices, they're jonesing for cloud native, that Jones and for the, some of the goodness that Amazon has shown works, but yet it's a huge migration nightmare and they want a SAS business model. They want a SAS company. This is the digital transformation. What is the impact of customers? >>Yeah, I mean, it's ultimately comes down to simplicity and agility, right? And the, there is two big transformations going on. One is there's a huge data center transformation going on, driven by simplicity, driven by software. And that is the whole software defined data center while you're absolutely right. Many of our customers have maxed out the server virtualization, but their network is inefficient and the storage is efficient, et cetera, et cetera. So the software defined data centers, one of the moves they're making now at the same time, like you said, they're jonesing for all these advanced services, uh, for their new applications. Uh, they want some way to bridge both environments. And that's where this service, uh, hits the sweet spot. If you will, right now, without replatforming, without changing your operational models, like your quote that you, the tweet that you quoted without changing any of our operational models, you can have an agile on demand of VMware data center. And what's running in that VMware data center is the full software defined data center stack, all of the great security and manageability capabilities of networking, of NSX, of virtual San, of vSphere at the same time, connecting to all these great services that AWS provides. It's really a best of both worlds story. >>So look from a customer standpoint, if I get this right, there's a big breathing out. Oh, finally, he got there, right? It's I don't have to do all this heavy lifting to move my VMware to the cloud. One, two in the demo that we show in V center. So specifically under the hood, what is running in the full stack? I mentioned V motion. I heard V motion mentioned. Is it all, all of the entire VMware stack running on the cloud? >>Yes. So the stack that's powering that, that you saw in the demo is a virtual sun watch lies in the storage underneath, um, NSX, providing the network virtualization. And of course, vSphere that's the core infrastructure stack. And in order to manage an ESX nodes for the hypervisor in order to manage ESX and control these resource pools and so on, you have the vSphere functionality built into V-Center. And that was a key requirement. Design requirement for this service is customers are very, very familiar with V-Center. They've been operating it for 15 years and have that as a huge ecosystem of tools, operational tools, backup dual security tools, you name it built around V-Center and all of that had to work seamlessly in the cloud. And that's why we sent her is so important. >>And certainly got a lot helps with the storage side of it. You mentioned networking, how does the Amazon relationship and the co-located if you want cold locating, but running managed in AWS help on the networking because in the demo, it was very cool besides the pay by credit card and pay by VMware account was the fact that you can pick a global footprint instantly, which means from what I took away, was it, I can be up and running in a geography with networking in the cloud, but not just Amazon's networking, you're networking. Absolutely. That's that accurate? You got it. Right. >>So, um, Amazon obviously has got a global network fabric that powers their services. And so you can stand up these clusters of the STDC hardware, if you will, on any one of their data centers in the fullness of time, maybe not on day one. And NSX already has the capability to connect across STDC clusters across different data centers. So now we can stretch a logical network, um, and have literally applications in the Portland data center of AWS and, uh, applications at the Virginia data center of AWS and applications in their London data center, all tied together, biological network. >>All right. So I'm going to ask some hard questions down so densely, by the way. So here's the hard question. So here's the hard question. So Paul Moritz and Joe Tucci no longer involved Maritz, retired, Tucci, retired, he wanted to own the enterprise. The private cloud was the original thing. Amazon was just kind of getting strong lift at that time. The world has gone all hybrids. There's a lot of hybrid cloud going around. So the world is different from them. So I want to get your comments on where the private cloud has came from to this reality and to comment to the naysayers out that I've heard some tweets like, Oh, rip VM-ware, they rang the bell, they tapped out, they capitulated talk about those two dynamics, private cloud, that vision, uh, from Mauritson Gelsey, uh, to cheek. And how do you answer the critics to say, Oh, they capitulated VMware's toast. >>Yeah. So, um, what the, uh, I would say are significantly incorrect views of how you look at this. The private cloud is still very strong, right? And you've got customers deploying the private cloud, literally every large enterprise that we talked to and we've got the leading share when it comes to private cloud deployments. And along with pivotal cloud Foundry, we can offer not just the infrastructure services of a private cloud, but also the application platform services of the private cloud or the private cloud exists for lots of different reasons can be regular. >>It's not done. The cloud is not going away anytime soon. What >>This allows customers to do is really get a hybrid that combines the best of a VMware environment or the best of an AWS. And that's really, what's unique. And what is in the service is the full VMware stack. And you've got to remember that 95% of our customers are still largely on vSphere. They've just started deploying and adopting NSX and virtual sand by adopting this service, they automatically get upgraded to the full power of network virtualization and storage virtualization. >>Of course. So you see this as an expansion of the business model, not anything I see complete expansion of the business model, that's going to come from SAS apps or, yep. >>So the whole service is a mad at service. So customers are not have to learn how to sort of rearchitect their data center. They can just get a rearchitected data center on demand wherever they want, or they can build the rearchitecture data center by themselves and connect it all up. Right. >>Okay. Final question. I'll see. Um, I'd love to chat more about what it's like cut this deal with Amazon fan of both of you guys. Um, actually we use Amazon work customer. Um, talk about your relationship with other clauses comes up with the press. People who are, you know, not as deep on, on the, on the industry they talk about IBM, Oh, it was IBM and Azure Azure. We can see that as competitive thing. I don't want to want to go there because we're going to do a whole blog post on the impact of Microsoft, which I think is the big competitor for us, for customers. But you guys have an open cloud strategy. And I think the IBM thing is let them compete. Now they have soft layer. Now some would argue Amazon, Andy talked about the relationship with them, the soft layer and how they compete. But ultimately IBM is deep with you guys. They're adding 20,000 developers. I think million people, which 4 million people trained highly integrated with VMware. So your strategy with them is the same, right? But primarily as a service operating on Amazon, are you guys going to be operating on soft layer and blue mix as well in a similar fashion? >>So, um, the service that we announced, uh, last month with IBM is a service that IBM is managing and operating, right? And we have worked very closely with them, the VMware cloud foundation, >>Just their business model. They're going to operate that you guys will operate the AWS cloud. >>We operate the VMware and IBM operates that service, but we go to market together with IBM on their service, right. And we work very closely with them. >>So this is a choice thing for you guys, as nothing to do with picking a better part, I'll even use the word primary. Okay. >>I mean, like Pat talked about, uh, the QA session, we've had lots of customers that are customers of AWS and for them, the first choice might be the VMware cloud on AWS. We equally got a lot of customers that are customers of IBM and for them and software and for them, uh, the choice would be running their on the IBM cloud with the cloud. >>Thanks for taking the time to speak with us. I'll give you the final word, not on the business side, cause it's pretty obvious. It's a good win-win on the business side. What is the coolest technical under the hood thing about this deal that people should know about? >>I think what AWS has engineered to build a service and how we are taking advantage of it for Delaware and elastic data centers across the globe is going to be very, very cool. Once you can talk more about it in a public domain >>Raku he's he had a, vice-president great to see you, a chief architect of this deal among many other things at VM-ware well-known within the industry legend in the, uh, VMware community. Thanks for joining us here on the non live Q, but we're here in San Francisco for the exclusive announcement of the AWS VMware relationship partnership integration. A lot of glad of goodness there. I'm John Ferrari. Thanks for watching.

>>live from the Frederick P Rose Hall, home of jazz at Lincoln center in New York, New York. It's the queue at IBM Z. Next redefining digital business. Brought to you by headline sponsor. IBM. >>Hey everyone. We are here live in New York city for the IBM Z system. Special presentation of the cube. I'm John furrier, cofounder SiliconANGLE at my coast. Dave Alante co founder Wiki bond.org. Dave, we are here with gathering Corine, vice president of the Z systems technology. Welcome to the cube. Great to have you. >>Thank you. I'm really glad to be here. It's an exciting day for us. >>We had a great conversation last night. I wanted to just get you introduced to the crowd one year overseeing a lot of the technology side of it. You're involved in the announcement, but uh, you're super technical and uh, and, and the speeds and feeds of this thing are out there. It's in the news, it's in the press, but it's not really getting the justice. And we were talking earlier on our intro about how the main frame is back in modernize, but it's not your grandfather's mainframe. Tell us what's different, what's the performance tech involved, why is it different and what should people be aware of? >>Sure. So this machine really is unmatched. We have tremendous scale performance in multiple dimensions that we can talk through. The IO subsystem provides tremendous value security that's unmatched. So many of the features and attributes to the system just cannot be compared to other platforms. And the Z 13 what we're announcing today evolves and improves so many of those attributes. We really designed the system to support transaction growth from mobility, to do analytics in the system, integrated with the data and the transactions that we can drive insights when they really matter and support it. Cloud delivery. >>So there's two, two threads that are out there in the news that we've wanted to pivot on. One is the digital business model, and that's out in the press release is all the IBM marketing and action digital business. We believe as transformers, that's pretty much something that's gonna be transformative. But performance with the cloud has been touted, Hey, basically unlimited performance with cloud. Think of compute as a not a scarce resource anymore. How do you guys see that? Cause you guys are now pushing performance to a whole nother level. Why can't I just get scale out saying or scale out infrastructure, build data centers. What is this fitted with that mindset or is it, >>yeah, so I, there's, there's performance in so many different dimensions and I'll can talk you through a few of them. So at the, at the heart of the technology in this system, we have tremendous value in from the processor up. So starting at the base technology, we build the microprocessor in 22 nanometer technology, eight cores per chip. We've got four layers of cash integrate on this. More cash that can be accessed from these processor cores then can compare to anything else. Tremendous value. Don't have to go out through IO to memory as frequently as you would have to in other environments. We also have an iOS SIS subsystem that has hundreds of additional processing cores that allows you to drive workload fast through that. Um, so I think it's the, it's, it's the, the, the scale of this system that can allow you to do things in a single footprint that you have to do with a variety of distributed environments separately coupled with unique security features, embedded encryption capability on the processor, PCIE attached, tamper resistance, cryptography, compression engines as so many of these technologies that come together to build a system. >>So IBM went to the, went to the, went to the woodshed back and took all the good technology from the back room cobbled together. Cause you guys have done some pretty amazing things in the, what they call proprietary days, been mainframe back in the sixties seventies eighties and client server a lot of innovation. So you guys, is that true? Would that be an accurate statement? You guys kind of cobbled together and engineered this system with the best >>engineered from, from from soup to nuts, from the casters up. We live, we literally have made innovations at almost every level here in the system. Now it's evolved from previous generations and we have tremendous capabilities in the prior ones as well. But you see across almost every dimension we have improved performance scape scalability capability. Um, and we've done that while opening up the platform. So some of the new capabilities that we're discussing today include enterprise Linux. So Linux on the platform run Linux on many platforms. Linux is Linux, but it's even better on the Z 13 because now you have the scalability, the security, the availability behind it and new open support, we're announcing KVM will be supported on this platform later this year we have OpenStack supported, we're developing an ecosystem around this. We have renouncing Postgres, Docker, no JS support on the mainframe. And that's tremendously exciting because now we're really broadening a user base and allowing users to do a lot more with Linux on the main. >>So one of the big themes that we're hearing today is bringing marrying analytics and transaction systems together. You guys are very excited about that. Uh, one of the, even even the New York times article referenced this, people are somewhat confused about this because other people talk about doing it. We go to the Hadoop world, you know, we talked big data, spark in memory databases, SAP doing their stuff with Hannah. What's different about what Z systems are doing? >>That's a great question. So today many users are moving data off of platforms, including the mainframe to do their analytics. Moving back on this ETL process, extract, transform load. It's incredibly expensive, cumbersome copies of that data. You have redundancy, you have security risk, tremendous complexity to manage. And it's totally unnecessary today because you can do that analytics now on the system Z platform, driving tremendous capability insights that can be done within the transaction and integrated where the transactions and the data live. So much more value to do that. And we've built up a portfolio of capabilities and some of them are new. We're an announcing as part of today's event as well that can allow us to do transformation of the data analytics of that data. And it, and it's, it's at every level, right? We have embedded analytics, accelerators in the process or a new engine we call Cindy single instruction. Multiple data allows you to do, uh, a mathematical, uh, vector processing. >>Let's drill down on that. I want to get your particular on this. You have the in process or stuff is compelling to me. I like, I want to drill down on that. Get technical. Right now all the rage is in memory in memory. She's not even on the big data. Spark has got traction for the analytics. DTL thing is a huge problem. I think that's 100% accurate across the board. We hear that all the time. But what's going on in the process server because you guys have advanced not just in memory, it's in processor. What is that architecture, what are the, some of the tech features and why is that different than just saying, Hey, I'm doing a lot of in memory. >>So, so the process or has um, a deeper and richer cash hierarchy, um, than, than we see in other environments. That means we have four layers of cash. Two of those cash layers are embedded within the processor core itself. They're private to the core. The next layer is on the processor chip and it's shared amongst all those cores. And the fourth layer on a herder, right, is on a separate chip. It's huge. It's embedded DRAM technology. It's a tremendously large cash and we've expanded that, which means you don't have to go out to memory nearly as frequently because you, >>you stayed in the yard that stayed in the yard today in memory is state of the art today. You guys have taken it advanced inside the core. What kind of performances that dude, what's the, what's the advantage? >>There's huge performance advantages to that. We see, we see, we can do, uh, analytics. Numbers are something like 17 times faster than comparable solutions. Being able to bring those analytics into the system for insights when you need them, right? To be able to do faster of scoring of transactions, to be able to do faster fraud detection with so many applications. So many industries are looking to be able to bring these insights faster, more co-located with the data and not have to wait the latency associated with moving data off and, and, and doing some sort of analysis on data that's stale. How that's not interesting. We really want to be able to to integrate that where the data and the transactions live and we can now do that on the. >>So in memory obviously is awesome, right? You can go much faster. A best IO is no IO as gene Amdahl would say, but if something goes wrong and you have to flush the memory in reload >>everything, it's problematic. How does IBM address that? So to minimize that problem relative to we hear you hear complaints and other architectures that that that's problematic. How do you solve that problem or have you solved that problem? >>Well, you know, I think it's a combination of, of the cash, the memory and the analytics capabilities, the resiliency of the system. So you worry about machines going down, failures and we've built in security, reliability, redundancy at every level to prevent failures. We have diagnostic capabilities, things like the IBM Z aware solution, right? This is a solution that's been used to monitor the system behavior so that you can identify anomalous behaviors before you have a problem that's been available with cos. now we're extending that to Linux for the first time. We have solutions like disaster recovery, continuous availability solutions like the GDPs, uh, it's now extended to be a virtual appliance for Linux. So I, there's so many features and functions. This system allow you to have a much more robust, capable, >>popular is Linux. Can you quantify that? You guys talk a lot about Linux and can you give us some percentage? >>Linux has been around for 15 years on the mainframe and um, we have a very good user adoption. We're, we're, we're seeing a large fraction of our clients are running Linux either all by itself or in concert with Zoes. >>So double digit workloads. >>Yeah, it's a very, it's a very significant fraction of the myths in the field today. >>God, I don't want to get a personal perspective from you on some things. One, you went, uh, you have an applied physics degree from Yale, master's from an applied physics from Stanford, PhD, applied physics from Stanford and all the congratulations by the way, you're super smart means you, it means you can get to the schools you means you're, you're smart. But the rage is software defined, right? So I want you to tell us from your perspective being in applied physics, the advances in Silicon is really being engineered now. So is it the combination of that software defined? What's your perspective? What should people know about the tech at the physics side of it? Cause you can't change physics know the other day, but Silicon is doing some good stuff. So talk about that, that convergence between the physics, Silicon and software. >>Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. So I think what sets us apart here with the mainframe is our ability to integrate across that stack. So you're right, Silicon Silicon piece of 22 nanometers Silicon, we can all do similar things with it, but when you co optimize what you do with that Silicon with high-performance system design, with innovations at every level, from where operating systems software, you can build an end to end solution that's unmatched. And with an IBM, we, we, we do that. We really have an opportunity to collaborate across the stack. So can we put things in the operating system? It can take advantage of something that's in that hardware and being able to do that gives us a unique opportunity. And we've done that here, right? Whether it's the Cyndi accelerator and having our software capabilities or see Plex optimizes a Java, be able to take advantage of what's in that, uh, in that microprocessor, we see that with new instructions that we offer here that can be taken advantage of compilers that optimize for what's in the technology. So I think it's that, it's that co optimization across the stack. You're right, software as a user, you see the software, you see the solution, you see the capability at the machine. But to get that you need the infrastructure underneath it, you need the capabilities that can be exploited by the software. And that's why that, >>and we're seeing that in dev ops right now with the dev ops movement. You're seeing, I want to abstract away the complexities of infrastructure and have software be more optimized. And here you guys are changing the state of the art in with the in-memory to in processor architecture, but also you're enabling developers and software to work effectively. >>Right? And I think about cloud service delivery, right? You know, and we would love to be able to offer end users it as a service so we can access the mainframe. All of those qualities of service that we know and love about the mainframe without the complexity and can do that. Technologies like Zoes connect and Blumix with system Z mobile first platform, allowing you to connect from systems, engagements, the six systems of Rutgers deploy Z services. So you can, we were trying to help our clients to be able to not be cost centers for their, uh, for their firms but to provide value added services. And that can be done with the capabilities on the main. >>So no, Docker, OpenStack KVM, obviously we talked about Linux. What does that mean from a business standpoint, from the perspective of running applications? Can you sort of walk us through what you expect clients to do or what >>it's, it's, it's all about standardization and really expanding an ecosystem for users on the platform. And we want anybody running Linux anywhere to be able to run it on, run their applications, develop their applications on the mainframe. And to be able to take advantage of the consolidation opportunities driven by the scale the platform and be able to drive unmatched end to end security solutions on this plot. Right? It's, it's a combination of enabling an ecosystem to be able to do what users expect to be able to do. And that ecosystem continues to evolve. It's very rapidly changing. We know we have to respond, but we want to make sure that we are providing the capabilities that developers and users expect on the platform. And I think we've taken a tremendous leap at the Z 13 to be able to do that. >>So obviously Linux opened up. That was the starting point. Right? Um, what do you expect with the sort of new open innovations? Will you pull in more workloads, more applications or, >>I certainly believe we will. And you know, new workloads on the platform. This is, this is a, an evolution for us and we continue to see the opportunity to bring new workloads to the platform. Things, support of, of, of Linux. And the expanding ecosystem there helps us to do that effectively. We see that, whether it's um, the, the, the transaction growth from mobile and being able to say, what does that mean for the mainframe? How can we not just respond to that but take advantage, enable new opportunities there. And I, so I think absolutely Linux will help us to grow workloads to get into new spaces and really continue to modernize the mainframe. >>John and I were talking at the open Paul Moritz at the time, CEO of VMware in 2009. So we are going to build a software mainframe. Um, interesting, very bold statement. Don't, where's he working on pivotal? Do you have a software mainframe? Have you already built it? >>I don't think you can have software that running on something. And so the mainframe is not a piece of hardware. The mainframe's a solution. It's a platform that includes technology, infrastructure, hardware and the software capabilities that run on it. And as I said, I think it's the integration that the co optimization across that really provides value to clients. I don't know how you can have a software solution without some fundamental infrastructure that gives you the qualities of service. That's so much of the inherent security availability. All of that is >>that's a marketing. It didn't, it didn't pan out. The vision was beautiful and putting a great PowerPoint together. he went to pivotal now, but I think what's happening is what you're, what you're talking about is it's distributed mainframe capability. The scale out open source movement has driven the wannabe mainframe market to explode. And so what now you look at Amazon, you can Google look at these, these power data centers. They are mainframes. In essence, they are centralized places. Well, they want to say the cloud is a software mainframe. Software runs on these data centers. So instead of having rack and stack, uh, three x86 processors, you just drop into mainframe or God box as I call it. And you have this monster box that's highly optimized and then you could have clusters of other stuff around it. Your argument is the integration is what, what makes the difference that end. And so Amazon makes their own gear, right? We know that now they don't do open compute. They're making their own gear. So people who want to be Amazon would probably go to some kind of hybrid mainframe. Like they're not making their own. 70 makes sense of that cause Amazon, I mean they purpose built their own boxes. They are building their own point though, right? I mean to the outside of the box. Right. >>The way I see it as is for for mission critical applications where you cannot support any downtime, you want to have a system that's built from the ground up for pure availability for security and we have that right? We have a system that you can prevent failures, right? We have redundancy at so many levels. We have, we have, you know, if a transaction, different model rate, you win when you take money out of your account or when you transfer money more potently into your account, you need to make sure it's there, right? You want to know that with a hundred percent confidence and to do that I would expect you feel more confident running that >>credit card transactions, same game all over again. Mission critical versus non mission critical, I mean internet of things. But what's not mission critical is my follow up question here of things. Some sensors data that's passive. I, if it's running my airplane, ass running your temperature. Oh, you're down for 10 minutes. I mean, yeah, >>there were some times that we would accept, accepts and downs. >>Lumpy. No, it's really about lumpy SLA performing. Amazon gets away with that because the economics are fantastic, right? So you can't be lumpy and bank transaction. What about costs versus, Oh mainframe. So expensive, so expensive. You guys put out some TCO data that suggest it's less expensive. Help us get through that. >>Yeah, so, so I think when we look at total cost of ownership, we're often looking at the savings to administration and the management of the complexity of sprawl. And with the mainframe, because you have such scale and what you can include in it in a single footprint, you can now consolidate so much into this literally very small environment and the cost savings because of the integration capabilities, because of the performance that you can contain within this box, you see end-to-end cost savings for our clients. And in that, that the break even point is not so large. Right. And so you talked about mission critical. If you're doing your mission critical work on your mainframe and you have other things that you need to do that aren't, you don't consider perhaps as mission critical, you have an opportunity to consolidate. You can do that all on the same platform. You're, you're not, you know, we, we can run with tremendous utilization. You can, you want to use these machines for all their work. >>So sorry. So a follow up on that. So the stickiness then AKA lock-in used to be, I got a bunch of COBOL code that won't run anywhere else. He got me, I got to keep buying Mayfair. I was just saying now the stickiness is for the types of workloads that your clients are running. It is cheaper. That's your, >>it's cheaper. And I think it has unmatched capability, availability, security features that you can't find in other solutions. >>And if you had to, in theory you could replicate it, but it would just be so expensive with people. >>In theory, I, okay. But I think some the fundamental technologies and solutions across that stack, who else can do that? Right. Okay. Can integrate solutions in the hardware and all the way up that stack. And, and I, I don't know anyone else, >>tell me what, tell me what, in your opinion, what gets you most excited about this technology platform? I mean, is there a couple things? Just are one thing saying >>that is so game changing. I'm super excited by this. Um, I can't sleep at night. I'm intoxicated technically. I mean, what gets you jazzed up on this? >>Well, I, I'll tell you, it's, today's a really proud day. I have to say being here and being a part of this launch, you know, personally having been a part of the development, been an IBM for 15 years. I spent the last eight years doing hardware development, including building components and key parts of the system. And now to see us bring that to market and with the value that I know we're bringing to clients, it's, it get, I, I get a little choked up. I truly, honestly, I truly, honestly feel really, really proud about what we've done. Um, so in terms of what is most exciting, um, I think the analytics story is incredibly powerful and I think being able to take a bunch of the technologies that we've built up over time, including some of the new capabilities like in database transformation and advanced analytics that we'll be continuing to roll out over the course of this year. I think this can be really transformative and I think we can help our clients to take advantage of that. I think they will see tremendous value to their business. We'll be able to do things that we simply couldn't do with the old model of moving data off and, and having the latency that comes with that. So I'm really excited about that >>nice platform, not just a repackaging of mainframe. Okay, great. So second, final question from me I want to ask you is two perspectives on, um, the environment, the society we live in. So first let's talk it CIO, CEO, what mindset should they be in as this new transformation? The digital businesses upon them and they have the ability to rearchitect now with mainframe and cloud and data centers. What should they be thinking about as someone who has a PhD in applied physics, been working on this killer system? What is the, what's the moonshot for that CIO and, and how should they be thinking about their architecture right now? >>So I think CEO's need to be thinking about what is a good solution for the variety of problems that they have in their shops and not segment those as we've often seen. Um, you have the x86 distributed world and maybe you have a main frame this and that. I begin to think about this more holistically about the set of challenges you need to go address as a business. And what capabilities do you want to bring to bear to solve those problems? I think that when you think about it that way, you get away from good enough solutions. You get away from some of this, um, mindset that you have about this only plays over there. And this only plays over there. And I think you open yourself up for new possibilities that can drive tremendous value to their businesses. And we can think differently about how to use technology, drive efficiency, drive performance, and real value. >>Last night at dinner, we, we all, we all have families and kids. Um, and you know, even there's a lot of talk about software driving the world these days. And it is, software's amazing. It's great. Best time to be a software developer. Since I've been programming since I was in college and, and it's so much so awesome with open source. However, there's a real culture hacker culture now with hardware. So, um, what's your advice to young people out there? You know, middle schoolers or parents that have kids in middle school for women, young girls, young boys with this. Now you've got drones, you've got hackers, raspberry pie, these kinds of things are going on. You've got kind of this Homebrew computer mindset. These young kids, they don't even know what Apple butter >>I would say it is, it is so exciting. Uh, the, the, the engineering world, the technology challenges, hardware or software. And I wouldn't even differentiate. I think we have a tremendous opportunity to do new and exciting things here. Um, I would say to young girls and boys don't opt out too soon. That means take your classes, studying math and science in school and keep it as an option because you might find when you're in high school or college or beyond, that you really want to do this cool stuff. And if you haven't taken the basics, you, you find yourselves not in a position to be able to, to, to, to team and build great things and deliver new products and provide a lot of value. So I think it's a really exciting area. And I've been >>it's a research as I'm seeing like this. I mean I went to the 30th anniversary for apples Macintosh in Cupertino last year and that whole Homebrew computer club was a hacker culture. You know, the misfits, if you will. And a coder camp. >>I think that think there are people who grow up in, always know that they want to be the engineer, the software developer. And that's great. And then there are others of us, and I'll put myself in that in that space that you may have a lot of different interests. And what has drawn me to engineering and to the, the work that we do here is has been the, the ability to solve tough problems, to, to do something you've never, no one has ever done before, to team with fantastically smart people and to build new technology. I think it's an incredibly exciting space and I encourage people to think about that opportunity >>from a person who has a PhD in applied physics. That's awesome. Thank Kevin. Thanks for joining us here inside the queue, VP of systems. Again, great time to be a software build. Great time to be making hardware and solutions. This is the cue. We're excited to be live in New York city. I'm John furry with Dave Alante. We'll be right back. This rep break.

hey welcome back to VMworld 2013 this is the cube live in San Francisco California Moscone Center south lobby this is a cube our flagship program we go out the events expect to see the flu noise I'm John Frieda founder of silicon I'm joy of my coasts day Volante boogie bun or hi everybody wanna talk flash with Ken Grohe he's here from Viren and he's a worldwide vice president of customer ops Ken welcome to the cube thank you for a long time watcher of item appreciate that yeah so you're enough obviously smoking hot space we've been talking about in a flash all week you saw the announcements of you know V sand from from VMware that's you know great news for you guys and just you know give us the update on on Viren and you guys have you know really you know we know Mike so I'm Mike come on all of a sudden things started happening and did the deal with Seagate so what's what's the latest well the crux is numbers numbers speak more than anything so I'm pleased to see that our company's growing 300 this year which is a huge change and I realized flashes everything if you walk the floor right now and a lot of vibe I think about 23,000 people across the show I think most almost 80% exhibitors are all around flash so the good news about buried in though is we're really beginning to invest we started generally availability of our flash max connect software as of April so there's a lot of talk about creating a flash platform but really we're really walking the walk now by having the practive ailable having our high availability software available having our shareability software so it's not just selling flash for the performance aspects Dave it's really building and creating and leading a flash platform transformation and that's where we're gonna get through I think you've talked about prior questions about how do we get it to the enterprise space so the web scale I think we all know is all PCI flash based but how do we get to the brick-and-mortar enterprise space and I think the familiarity of getting to a platform that looks like a sand it feels like a sand and as the data services of a sand will albeit with the respect of the performance at microseconds that flash and only PCI Flash can provide from Vera Dhin I think that's how you get to enterprise accounts that everyone's like to see yeah I mean when you talk to people in the labs they they tout your product as you know one of the best if not the best out there but so that that flash transformation that's largely software lead absolutely so talk about that a little bit well it has to be software led because at some point you basically if you one of the troubles we have going through is do you want to buy a flash array and some of the in users might say where's PCI flash makes more sense where it does make more sense is your heritage behind it if you want to get close to the apt and you want to be closer to the actual performance behind it you want to get that performance but you also want the familiarity so you can go back to the IT director of the santa administrator and have the same type of data services or high availability that you might be accustomed to so that kind of bridges the gap between the person who's representing or maybe being the database administrator or maybe the application owner or actually the people they're administrating thus and so i mentioned the word transformation because i just didn't talk about how we're transforming the data center with flash and getting a greener i talked about how the people who manage the storage how they need to be professionally transformed I liken it to of we were in the business for a while I liken it to back when the first sands were sold people were putting raid storage out there but it wasn't until the transformation happened to sand and that IT professionals actually had to decide how you can have networking and actually have that build to everybody that transformation is happening today but would flash the building blocks PCI flash our company is uniquely equipped to actually bring out for lack of a better word of Veritas like what they do on the sand basis but actually have the high ability software the share building software actually in place so people can have a comfort and familiarity with the actual San in place ever have the speed as far as PCI flash can talk about the dynamic in the marketplace I'll see variants Lisa I always thought telling entrepreneurs this you get in the market is you're an entrepreneur you build a company you got to get on the field you can't score a touchdown or hit a homerun if you're not swinging at the plate or being on the field you can't really do anything from the stance you guys hit the flash thermal growth like all of a sudden the market was just realized spun in your direction your technology right there you're right with a puck came to you as they say in Wayne Gretzky analogy you guys were where the puffy you skated to where the puck was coming what is it about Bearden that makes it today really hot and you guys are growing get good growth sure 3% growth what's that 300% growth reason why the customers are buying tell share it the audience up there what three reitman what it is thanks for the questions I appreciate and thanks for acknowledging our growth and I shout out to our founders Kumar and Vijay who started this company seven years ago and then basically moved and worked it from nor flash and the appliance over to PCI flash two years ago but the reason for the growth is really threefold first off if you're an only M you really resonate with the fact that you've got unconditional performance at the higher you beat up this card the more there is an OEM would actually perform better for their applications and that that's why we're becoming a choice given the flash marketplace it's out there so performance number one o on condition performance if you go to our website that's our tag line I'm provision performance however you mentioned bring Wayne Gretzky on where the puck is going to where the pucks going to and I think you will you'll see our tagline kind of move towards is more of a leading the flash platform transformation so I mean by that it's it's the integrations Dave you mentioned before with high availability with shareability with caching software at the kernel level actually after the actual design for flash having them available so you actually can make that transition so no longer you clinging on to the stand tree you move into the performance of actual flash so that helps in the end user and what I've kind of done since I moved over in May is build what I think is a pretty good than using Salesforce and September 10th we'll talk about a partner kitty will be building as well but if you get the end user that creates the demand we're bringing on more more OMS I mention this card before you got om om and use direct sales in direct indirect indirect will be announced a separate tenth we are doing okay there are some of you big customers that's a big oh yes so if you don't extreme super flash that's a goob EMC is doing it yeah so and then um seagate of course x8 their product were very happy to be one of the providers of them as an OEM but over 50% of our sales to date have been to the direct end users that's where a big part of a business and that's that's where it really resonates people if you look I think Pat's first slide was he talked about how the applications going from first to second to third it's all consumer based it's all I carry an iPhone 5 F where I go when I I try to work at that type of real time speed with that type of transition to consumer eyes type applications you need a third generation type you know building blocks and that would be PCI flash my garden so I wonder if we could unpack a little bit more how you guys differentiate John I've been talking all week you know just that Jerry on from Kray lock just talking about the nightmare he really thought I and yeah but of course the other flipside of that is people saying it she's like the Winchester just drives to the 1980s you had 80 companies and and you know can the market sustain them also so how do you guys differentiate from all the here we always say extract the signal from the noise how do you differentiate from the other players out there well first off for the people who know the business the people that buy in by the pallet fall let's call it the scale that accounts the people they're leading us their new you've probably name the names before those customers the flash innovators they're buying pervasive flash they're the people who enjoy using the customer using actual product itself because it's got the highest high-end performance so unconditional performance you don't have the outliers the more you hit it with a high thread rights the high red thread reads that's where we really shine so thanks for noticing that as far as the customer base I mean the ability to have a vkn product with a right back no one else had well one of two players that have that as far as the VHA software its uniquely positioned so you have the same familiar out there and then every time they give an end-user presentation for my Salesforce when you see the V sharing capability as far as software that's truly unique Dave in the market talk about that V cashing with the right back I think you said that's unique so describe what that is and what makes it so hard well the reason why it's hard is you've got to have it so it conforms the existing systems you have to have in place so that the actual methodology in place as far as the applications and the accounts are you used to having different situations where you have the the same familiarity the same data services you have in place with right back you have different choices you have right through you have right around a write back cache and the fact that we've been in the flashing business you mentioned it acknowledged the newer appliance with our founders that you know this is this is knowing our first first attempt in the flash marketplace we've been in the biz five years before we went to PCI flash we can do the hard business that we can do the different choices for customers whether it be right back right through a right around and supposed to be caching but the truth is when we go in and user sales calls they always resonate around shareability they like the fact that you can put this as a 2.2 terabyte card they like they can share some of the namespaces and we convey shares across the different so you actually have a shared pool of these spaces around the different pool of flash I think earlier today I know Carl mentioned it I know Pat mentioned yesterday that's truly unique for us the ability to share and access has cross more users but you had mentioned I think when the raid vendors were out there there was like 20-something raid vendors but then after the change to the San marketplace to get down to two or three I think you didn't see that type of change around flash as well there are five or six flash PCI Flash vendors I think we're gonna be one of the three or four that people built bet their business on because we have a familiarity of having that software and that's where our investments are Ken talk about something that's I'm always gonna stickler on like buzz words but and but it did some of these things matter high availability Madison unquestioned is a word that's like a punchline it's like cost of ownership it does it's relevant but I want to actually specifically what is change in the current marketplace around high availability high availability is a table stakes kind of deal for a lot of the infrastructure side I mean that's a goal where everyone wants high availability like freedom right so so but what is about high availability today well it's different than was a couple years I'll give a tangible example one of our best use cases with the VHA software that you just mentioned as well as Oracle RAC some of our customers want the demands of Oracle RAC and the bridges the way that that can seamlessly work in their environment and to be blunt with you you get the speed of PCI flash but the affordability of putting you know a few cards in your environment and have that be able to do it but you have the blessing and the endorsement of actually having a rack environment have it out there so that's the way I view high availability at the highest levels five nine step availability where the customers could depend upon it and that's something you got to pitch a lot with your clients all day that's that's probably a second most proficient servers and my availability kind of go hand in hand I mean well sometimes they don't I mean people don't have availably they don't go down they're not performing so it's kind of like a implied benefit yeah John it's its database it's we're doing great in the e-tailing marketplace so I think the bricks and mortar type companies that are putting a front end that looks amazing like Google or amazing like Amazon amazing like Facebook but there's still the large retailers you might go shop on a weekend with so some the people at the show are talking about two major themes we're hearing follow the applications have a patient-centric infrastructure and enabling infrastructure that's going to be available to enable the apps to basically run DevOps and or create infrastructure so so what are you guys doing let's talk what's the innovation strategy around the around the enable in the middle of the stack because VMworld VMware can't get to the top of the stack and innovate until they fix the middle of the stack which is performance availability but enabling apps flash seems to really sit beautifully for the apps it's like a memory tier it's not also you can put if a disk so what are you guys doing in that area what can you talk about photos whatever we can do to make it seamless so people enjoy using the emotion what we can do to enjoy so that seamless for B motion I mentioned Oracle RAC before one thing I'd like to do is in my in my past we enjoyed seeing VM win I think Pat went through the slides before where VMware has get to a point there's more virtual servers in place than physical servers I think what three four years ago it went about 50 percent Moritz Zion okay thank you so what we need to do in the value we provide to our OEM partners and our end users that last twenty five percent so even the most proficient virtualized customer out there they need that lasting hooda to get their Tier one critical applications fully virtualized and it gets one of the mantas that know Carlos talk with us pat was talking about this flash technology is gets the mission-critical applications so they can be virtualized as well because I think this whole robust environment here twenty two thousand people would benefit if it was a hundred percent versus a final question for you we were up on time here can did you guys I've got great growth what's next what's around the corner can you just give us a peek around the corner for you guys you mentioned messaging some some new messaging that might be come around but what else is what's gonna be new for you guys well thank you for acknowledging so it's leading the flash platform transformation September 10th to see a big announcement of our channel ecosystem I appreciate that you will see denser cards but more importantly we're investing all we can in our saw where we want to lead that flash platformer transformation you will see future releases about different availability as far as card management and other sophisticated ways so we can make it seamless as you're used to running your Sam but for a flash network flash network so having that fabric in place and again work its addicting work in microseconds the fact that the product in bring in 50 microseconds versus a familiarity we used to have around four to ten milliseconds people gonna like me post into the applications consumer side and it's exciting time for us for the growth potential new customers that might not know Veera didn't explain to them real quick we'll give you the final word of the segment why you've helped other customers that might be like them and what should they know about Bearden we'll wrap it up okay great on your third generation applications you might out there a sequel a new database that might be in place there it is exactly your choice to put out there it will give the speed you need that's out there in the familiarity of actually having the data services around our software flash math connect if you have an existing second-generation application that you'd like to get end-of-life or a little more kick out of it on a midlife kicker whether it be Oracle s ap we even have a huge use case and one of the largest companies in China just put in through an exchange environment that's a great use case as well so today's performance next generation tech performance but familiarity of data services that you've been around for 15 20 years and that's why I think we're leading the flash on the transformation so thank you Ken that's awesome flash as hot as I always tell Dave and I was talking about it under the hood is the engine of innovation the apps are what's driving the car all the instrumentation is there with Big Data and flash is a big part of it congratulations new sets and watch mirrored in we're gonna be watching you guys be written inside the cube this is Jon and Dave here we'll be right back with our next guest after this short break