(bright music) >> Hey everyone. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Coupa Inspire 2022. This is day two. We've been on the ground in Las Vegas at the cosmopolitan, Lisa Martin here with Kyle Rogers. Great to be talking with Coupa customers, partners all the good stuff. Kyle, you are the partner finance effectiveness at Clearsulting. - Yes. >> Welcome to the program. >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm super happy to be here. And we're really excited to be a partner with Coupa. >> Talk to me a little bit about Clearsulting, so the audience gets an understanding of what you guys are doing. >> Perfect. So I'll introduce myself first. I'm Kyle Rogers, as you mentioned, I'm a partner at the firm. A leader finds affecting this practice and we focus on a few things. So first is like general finds and accounting operating model work. The second is a lot of global based services, shared services work. So helping clients think about where their talent should sit and how those global workflows should work. And then what's really important to this week is, we've got a deep capability and procure to pay. And at a Clearsulting, we work with our clients to drive thoughtful and complex solutions for procurement and finance executives using digital as a key enabler in that. And we've got a number of practices. So we focus on finds effectiveness, which I lead. We've got enterprise performance management, risk advisory record report, and treasury. >> One of the things that is the spirit of Coupa is collaboration, the community. How does clear salty, how do you collaborate with your clients? >> Yeah, it's a great question because we think collaboration is so core to being successful in driving good outcomes. So the ways we collaborate with our clients are first, we bring deep expertise around, procure to pay functional subject matter of experts. And we compliment that with our innovation center which is a team that's focused on really staying on the forefront of digital and technical solutions and making sure we bring them together to give robust and powerful outcomes for our clients. And then lastly, and really importantly, we meet our clients where they are. They're all at different stages in their I maturity. They've got different goals and objectives. Some might be trying to have a focused really niche outcome whereas others might be transformational in nature. So we make sure that we right size our solutions to really get them where they're trying to go. >> When you're talking with customers that are maybe in the infancy of digitizing procure to pay for example, what are some of the concerns that they have? I mean, I guess these days if you're not digital, you're not very competitive. >> Right. Digital is so important to what they do. Not only to reduce costs and take in efficiencies out of the business but also when you think about, the importance of decision support, right? So tightening the cycle time between business activity and making sense of it using technology as core and fundamental to being successful. >> What are some of the trends that you're seeing in procurement especially anything top of mind the last two years? >> Yeah, so what we love about Clearsulting is we've got a broad base of clients. And when we meet and work with each of them they all have their different needs and goals. And we've been able to see some through lines across each that have started to emerge. And we've really seen three trends emerge. So the first is, there's a a big focus on operational efficiency. So moving towards a touchless world, taking cost out of the business and really moving towards exception based, system driven processes and more towards insight generation decisions important alike. And then the second is there's a real increased focus on getting total visibility into your spend management, right? So understanding who your suppliers are, what you're buying from them, how much you're spending and really understanding are they giving you the value that you thought you were going to get when you onboarded them. And that's really come to the floor through a lot of the supply chain volatility, a lot of the volatility around pricing, especially when you think look at things like commodities and just getting real your arms around what, what you're spending on. And then lastly, there's a new and diverse set of talent in the workforce today, right? And the last 10 to 20 years we've seen digitally native talent graduate into the workforce. And what their hopes and desires and needs are in the workplace are very different than the generation before them. So just giving them tools and digital technologies that will attract them but also retain them when they're here. - Right. - Yeah. And then also when you think about some of the shifts towards a more remote, remote, or hybrid model, having tools and capabilities that allow you to do that and Coupa is a great example. >> Right. Well, you talked about, different generations and the younger generations. I think there's four or five generations that are in the workforce today. >> Wow. - And so when you think of, you talked about the remoteness hybrid environment that we're still living in how everything has changed so dramatically in the last couple of years. - Yeah. >> That being touchless, contactless, paperless really became essential for so many businesses. How do you guys, what do you define as touchless? How is it different than say paperless? Is it just another the way of saying or does it actually mean something different? >> It's a little, it's different and it's not truly touchless because you still need to have, the human as part of the process, right? But when we say touchless, it's identifying those points of where is it rules based? Where can we use business logic to drive some system based decision and taking the robot out of the human as some say, and really having the humans spend their time on how can I use this information to support the business, get insights out of it and focus my time on work that's meaningful and powerful. >> Well work that's meaningful and powerful to them that will make them want to stay at their jobs but also work that allows them to be able to focus on more strategic projects for the business let the other stuff be touchless and automated where it can be. >> Right. - So that their focus is on more business critical activities or initiatives. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So when you think about things like supporting sourcing on making sure that they've got their strategic suppliers set up and their spending with the right suppliers. That is so much more valuable obvious to your time than reconciling invoice to goods receipt, right? >> You mentioned insights and visibility and visibility. I was just talking with a Coupa customer that had uncovered two billion dollars in indirect spend that they couldn't see before Coupa. And I just can't help, but think how many businesses in every industry are out there with billions in indirect spend that they literally can't see. If you can't see it, you can't be able to make the right decisions on it. Talk to me about enabling that visibility as a key outcome for your clients. >> Right, and I think that to your point it's not just that what we also see is there's not great duplicate detection. So a lot of times our customers or clients are paying their suppliers more than once for the same inventory. So getting their view on exactly what they're spending, what's paid, what's not paid, how is it impacting our supply chain? How is that balancing up against our revenue forecast? To make sure that we've got inventory moving through our supply chain at the right time. The visibility there is fundamental to being successful in the current day marketplace. >> Talk to me about now, some of your experiences working directly with Coupa clients. What are some of the things that you've been able to enable? Any stories stick out in your mind is this really articulates the value that we bring with to Coupa. >> Absolutely. So we worked with, we just wrapped up a project and the client was using some legacy ERPs. They had gone through a period of pretty significant MNA. So they have a pretty technology landscape and they wanted to find a procure to pay solution that met all of their requirements. And Coupa was the perfect fit. We helped walk them through the process and move towards a point where every single invoice had to get manually entered. Every single invoice had to get manually matched. >> Oh, wow. - Yeah. Two, to leveraging a lot of capabilities Coupa has around EDI and DCR and the supplier portal to automate a lot of that and then streamline a lot of the matching. And on the back end, just getting visibility into who you're spending your money with. As you mentioned you said two billion dollars of an indirect spend that they had no idea where that was going. That is very common >> Common? - Common. - Is it? I mean, not that amount, but the fact that you don't have, pure visible end to end spend is very common. >> Are you seeing any trends towards that, maybe changing, considering what we've all been through in the last two years when suddenly everybody went home and you couldn't get to those paper invoices or those paper POs, do you see more businesses going," help us out, we've got to digitize. We don't have a choice." >> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So it's moving suppliers onto more digital invoice submission methods whether it be the portal whether it be digital PDF sending in through common inboxes. And then moving it away from invoices not going to the manufacturing plants anymore. We've got that going to a central location. If it needs to be physical, you've got one place that houses it versus many desperate ones. >> Well, and Coupa talked a lot about that, the last couple days about essentially getting rid of the silos. - Yes. I was talking with Rob earlier today. Raja Hammoud was here as well. And talking about, there's still a lot of silos out there, that our organizations are operating under which limits their visibility and limits their potential, I think, to be competitive. >> Right. And I think what we find is procurement is historically, has been a very siloed organization. Because that's been the back of what a lot of businesses grow on as either R and D or procurement buyers. And they don't want to have a lot of control in their space. So making sure that they can have the flexibility to buy real time, maybe use a lot of institutional knowledge to overcome some process or system gaps. So there can be some challenges moving them into centralized model, but when you think about the broader business case on rationalizing your supplier base and making sure that you're getting most favorable terms with your suppliers. And then also having control over when cash goes out the door, who goes out the door too, far outweighs some of the other benefits associated with having it decentralized. >> These days, businesses in any industry don't have time to wait for tribal knowledge to be able to help determine the next direction. We are also used to everything on demand that the real time access to the data, the insights where are where's the money going? Who are we contracting with? That real time is no longer a nice thing to have for organizations. It's a requirement. >> Right. And, I think one big shift we've seen is, a lot of companies used to be organized functionally. So meaning you had finance operating a silo procurement operate in silo, IT operating a silo but that's really been flipped on its head. And then that now they're organized around end in processes. So when you look at procure to pay, you're touching a diverse set of stakeholders from sourcing, procurement, IT, treasury, legal, finance, and so on. So tribal knowledge doesn't work anymore. You have to have tight handoffs, you have to have tight orchestration and you need to have stakeholders aligned. >> How do you help customers navigate that? Because one of the things that can be challenging is, especially for maybe more historied organizations that are used to and very comfortable in their swim lanes and their silos. How do you help them from a change management perspective, be able to connect all those pieces together so that ultimately everybody's job is, able to deliver more value to the business? >> Right. So one of the things that we at Clearsulting are really good at is we understand the language of each of those stakeholder groups. So we can talk to finance, we can talk to procurement, we can talk to sourcing and IT and we understand what makes them tick, and what their objectives are and how they think. So when we work with our clients, we really make sure that we have that through line around. What's the common story here, the common message that's going to resonate with everyone because it's really important to have your stakeholders engaged and on board to have successful outcomes with Coupa or any sort of p to p transformation. >> I want to talk about talent for a second. You mentioned that a minute ago and we're all living through the great resignation. >> Yes. - I'm sure you have friends. I do too. That decided to make changes during the last couple of years. The opportunities are there, but it's important for companies to be able to retain talent. But, and part of that to your point earlier was especially for the younger generations you need to be able to have the technology and the capabilities to enable that generation to want to stay and grow within an organization. >> Right. And I think Coupa has really driven value to our client's talent strategies in a couple ways, chiefly, it's moving the robot out of a human, which I mentioned a little bit about earlier. So a lot of the activities that are repetitive, rule based, that historically we've thrown people out, to try and get it done. Now, the system can handle that. As long as you've got your processes designed accordingly, it can accommodate a lot of those exceptions. And the work that people are supporting after that is more meaningful, right? It's understanding, okay, what's valuable to the business? How can I help support decisions to do that? And what can we do around continuous improvement to continue to maximize what we're doing? And then secondly, around the great resignation, the remote or hybrid model is a key recruit recruitment mechanism. - Yes. And using Coupa, which is a SaaS solution. And one that can be orchestrated and designed globally, allows for more flexible models both from remote to in person but also allows for global flexibility, right? And global workflows. >> Global flexibility, global workflows, but also that global collaboration that I think we've we all need to have. And that's really what Coupa thrives on that community. That's really, I always say it's very symbiotic. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And Coupa being an integrated solution that as we mentioned, is end to end source to pay, allows for seamless intergration across each of your communities and each parts of your business, because then you can look at things globally as opposed to some of the siloed and more regional views that they had before. >> Right. What are some of the, the last question for you. What are some of the things that are exciting to you about what you've heard at the event the last couple of days, some of the future direction of Clearsulting. What's on your plate? >> The session yesterday morning around collaboration was really powerful to us. Because we find the collaboration with our clients is a big change agent to driving value. And then thinking about your supplier network as an ecosystem to collaborate on, is a big takeaway from us this weekend. And it's been really powerful to see everyone working together and finding creative solutions that meet everyone's needs in a global workforce. >> Yep. I agree. Kyle, thank you for joining me on the program this afternoon talking about Clearsulting, your partnership with Coupa and how you're helping those customers go touch us. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you, Lisa, it's a pleasure to be here. >> All right. Well, Kyle Rogers, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's coverage of Coupa inspire day two, coming at you from Las Vegas. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to today's session of the 2021 AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards. I'm delighted to present our special guests for today's program and they are Kyle Hines, VP Strategic Accounts at Presidio as well as chief Chuck Hoskin, Jr., chief of the Cherokee Nation. Welcome to the program, gentlemen >> Thank you. >> Terrific, well, delighted to have you here, we're going to discuss the key award of best partner transformation, most impactful nonprofit partner, of course now highlighting some of the technologies now being technology now being leveraged to help preserve the Cherokee language as well as its culture. Now, Chuck, I'd like to start with you and if you could describe some of the challenges that the Cherokee nation is now faced with in terms of preserving the language and its culture and how you see technology being able to really help preserve it. >> Well, thank you, Natalie. It was really good to be with you all today. The Cherokee language and culture is what makes us unique as a people. It's the link that links us back to time and immemorial through generations. And over those generations, there've been many threats to our language and culture. There's been disease after European contact, there's been dispossession, there's been our forced removal on the trail of tears. Other pressures in more modern times have continued to erode our language and culture, including, boarding schools, the public school system through most of the 20th century as Cherokee Nation has gotten back on its feet, that is to say when the govern the United States has allowed Cherokee Nation to do what we've always done well which is to govern ourselves, chart our own destiny, and preserve our life ways, we've been able to make preservation efforts but those generations of eroding our language and culture had coming to steep costs. We're the largest tribe in the country, 392,000 citizens and by the way we're mostly in Northeast, Oklahoma but we have Cherokees living all over the country even all over the world. And we only have 2000 fluent speakers left. So it's a great challenge to save a language that's truly endangered. And if we don't save it generations from now we may do a number of things exceedingly well as we do today, business, providing education and housing, creating a great healthcare system, but we will have lost that thing that makes us a unique people, that thing that links us back to our past. And so what we're doing today, working with great partners like Presidio is just indispensable to what's really our most important mission. >> Yeah, terrific. Well, thank you so much for those insights. I'd like to switch it over to Kyle and hear about the technologies now being utilized to preserve the Cherokee language and culture. >> Sure, happy to Natalie and thanks for having us this morning. So yeah, when we started to work with the Cherokee Nation, it was very clear to us that, there's obviously a higher power or a higher mission here. And so it's really been an honor to work with the chief and the nation and what we've been able to do is is take what the Cherokee Nation is trying to do in terms of language and cultural preservation and build solutions in really a very modern way. So between Inage’i, the 3D mobile open-world game and the virtual classroom platform, it's entirely a cloud native serverless solution in AWS, using a lot of the most modern tools and technologies in the marketplace. For example, in the mobile game, it's built around unity and the virtual classroom platform is built around the Amazon chime SDK, which allows us to really build something that is very clean and light and focused on what the nation is trying to achieve and really cut out a lot of the baggage and the other sort of plumbing and various other technologies that this would have, this type of solution would have taken just a few short years ago. >> Yeah, terrific. Well, Kyle, staying with you, what do you think were some of the factors behind the development of this solution? >> Yeah, so I think flexibility was key. Was maybe the biggest design goal in building these solutions because you learn a lot when you originally set out to build something and it starts to impact real users, and in this case, speakers of the Cherokee Nation, you learn a tremendous amount about the language and how it's used and how people communicate with each other. And so the main design goal of the solutions was to allow a sort of flexibility that lets us adapt. And every time we learn something and every time we find something that works or perhaps doesn't work quite as well as was imagined, we have the flexibility to change that and kind of stay nimble and on our toes. >> Terrific, well, Chuck, now switching over to you, why do you think that some of these, platforms like the virtual classroom are so effective with Cherokee speakers? >> Well, a couple of reasons, one pandemic related, during COVID the worst public health crisis the world seen in living memory, we have had to adapt quickly to continue on our mission to save this language. We couldn't afford a year off in terms of pairing speakers, by the way, most of our fluent speakers are over the age of 70, with young people who need to learn the language and be the new generation of speakers. So it's been really important that during those difficult times we could connect virtually and the technology we've been using has worked so effectively, but the other is really irrespective of what's going on in terms of having to isolate, and social distance and things of that nature during COVID, and that is just making sure we can make this language accessible, particularly to young people in a manner in which they are becoming accustomed to learning things throughout the rest of the world. And so using platforms that they're familiar with is very important but it also has to be something that an older generation of these fluent speakers, as I say most of them are over 70, can use. And that's what really has been so effective about this platform. It's so usable. Once you introduce it to people whether it's a young person who can adapt pretty quickly 'cause they're growing up immersed in it, or it's someone who has not been familiar with that technology, with just a little bit of showing them how to use it, suddenly this classroom becomes just like you're in person. And that makes all the difference in the world in terms of connecting these young people with their elders. As the other thing is Cherokees are by nature very much part of a big extended family. And so that personal connection that you can maintain through this platform is really important. I think it's going to be the key to how we save this language, because as I say we have Cherokees all over the country, even all over the world and we're going to harness our numbers, the large population we have and find those with the interest and aptitude to learn the language, we must use this technology and so far it's worked well. >> Yeah, terrific, and now switching over to Kyle, we'd love to hear from you how your team developed this technology. How they really thought out, what kinds of methods are really going to drive the interaction and the immersion and engagement among these disparate demographics of, elderly Cherokees and also the young generation. So, how did your team go about developing that? >> Yeah, it's a very good question because in a situation like this, there is no shortage of different ways that you could have built a solution like this. There are a lot of different ways that it could have been done. So the tax that we took was a rigorous focus on the user experience and on the experience of the speaker. And that allowed us to detach ourselves to a large degree from what were the exact technology choices that were implemented in terms of AWS services, other open source packages that run on AWS, it's being able to focus completely on what the nation was trying to achieve with their speakers, both through the game and the virtual classroom platform. It let us take a lot of other design decisions and technology choices sort of into the background and behind a level of abstraction. And so there's always quite a bit of rigorous testing and really making sure you understand how something's going to perform in the wild, but the reality of the situation was, the whole reason for doing it was the experience of the speakers, both in the game and in the classroom platform. So we stayed very focused on that and made technology decisions sort of second fiddle or lower priority. >> Terrific, well, Chuck, how do you think that these kinds of innovations could be applied to other areas of the Cherokee school system? >> Well, our greatest challenge is preserving language and culture, but we also have as part of our mission to educate this new generation of Cherokees coming up. For years and years, really generations, Cherokees who were able to get a good education many of them left our tribal lands for new opportunities. And so we lost a great deal because of the economic pressures here in Northeast, Oklahoma, particularly on our Cherokee lands. So the task now is to generate opportunity for a new generation coming up. Education is key to that and so if we want to create a pipeline of young Cherokees who want to get into the healthcare fields, want to get into aerospace, want to get into other professions, we've got to create an education system that is steadier and modern. We have a school that is K through 12th grade, K through the senior year, and so we have an opportunity really to do that. And I think for the first time in our history, in this era, I'm talking elect the last few decades, we are able to really craft education in a way that works for us and using technology and making choices about what that technology is, is important to us. It's a bygone era in which the federal government or the state is sort of imposing on us what choices we make. Now we can reach out with great partners all over the world like Presidio and say what solution can work for our classroom? When we can identify what the great demands are on the reservation in terms of jobs. And one of the great demands we have is healthcare. So how can we use technology to inspire little Cherokee boys and girls to grow up and be doctors and nurses here in just a few decades when we're building this great health system? Well, we're going to use technology to do it. So the possibilities are really unlimited and they need to be because we think our potential here in Cherokee Nation is unlimited. >> Yeah, I mean that's terrific to hear how technology is really encouraging younger generations to study, learn and really push themselves further. Kyle, I'd like to switch over to you and hear a little bit about the benefits of launching this kind of platform on AWS. >> Yeah, there are a lot of benefits to building this on AWS. And I think that it spans a couple of categories, even. I mean, from a technological perspective there was every tool and every service that we needed to build both of the solutions that we built right there in AWS. And when there was a, when there was a time where we needed to jump out and use a project outside of AWS, running on AWS such as the unity engine, AWS makes that very easy. So I would say that the choice was easy because there are technological realities and the breadth and the depth of the technological portfolio in AWS combined with the partnership that we get from them, It's really, you know, there's a lot of support when it comes to, Hey we're working with the Cherokee nation on something that's extremely important. We need your help. We need you to help us figure this out. It's never been hard to get that partnership. >> Terrific, and also following up on that, love to hear how AWS really helped with flexibility and also the cost effective effectiveness of this kind of platform. >> Yeah I would take those questions backwards or in reverse order because the cost-effectiveness of the solution is really, it's really something to make note of because when we build something in the way that we built these platforms they're serverless and event driven. Meaning that the Cherokee Nation is not paying for a solution constantly as we would in lives past running things in data centers and such. It really, the services in AWS allow us to say, Hey, let's spin up certain pieces of functionality when they're needed as they're being used. And the meter is running during that time, and the cost is occurred during the time it's being used and not all of the time. So that really has a dramatic impact on cost effectiveness. And then from a flexibility standpoint, as we learn new things, as we evolve the platform as we grow this out to more and more speakers and to more and more impact to the Cherokee Nation, we have all kinds of different technology choices that we can make and it's all contained within AWS. >> Yeah, and I'd like to open this now to both of you, starting with Chuck, how do you think this kind of technology could be applied to other cultures or languages that re seeking to preserve themselves? There's so many languages in the world that are now dying out because most of us are only speaking, just a few like English, Spanish, just a few others, what steps can be taken so that humanity can preserve these important languages? >> Well, you're right. There are so many endangered languages around the world and indigenous languages are unfortunately dying all over the world all the time, even as we speak, they're slipping away. The United nations is dedicated the next decade to the preservation of indigenous languages. That's gotten many leaders around the world thinking about how we can save languages here in this era. And I would encourage any tribal leader in particular in the United States, but I think it certainly applies around the world to seek out this technology. I mean, Cherokee Nation's in a position now where we can seek out the best in the world in terms of partnerships. And we've found that in Presidio. And of course they're using AWS which means they're using the best in the world and so the technology exists, and the willingness to work together exist. And I think generations ago that would have been not something we could have connected well on in terms of partnering with companies that were doing cutting edge things. So if you're looking to connect generations in terms of learning and sharing the language, which is just I cannot stress enough how indispensable that is to language preservation, this type of technology will do it. There are some, I think that may think, and I don't have a technology background, that if you're using this cutting edge technology, I mean this is the best in the world that you're going to speak only to this young generation coming up, and maybe it's inaccessible to an older generation. It's just not the case. This is so user-friendly that we we've been able to connect elders with young people. And if anyone in the world interested in preserving languages could see this in action, could see a young person sitting next to an elder talking about the technology or connecting virtually, it would change their whole perspective on what technology means for language reservations because I promise you all over the world the great challenges you have this group of older generations of people who know the language. They have it in their hearts, they have it in their minds and they're slipping away just from the passage of time. Connecting them with the generation coming up is just what we need to do. This technology allows us to do it. >> Yeah, Chuck following up on that when I hear about elderly people being able to connect with the younger generations in this way and share their history and their culture I'm sure that also, It must have a positive mental effect for them. Right, so elderly are often isolated. Do you have any insight on that? Any quality of insight what you've heard from people using this? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think the last year has proven how valuable it is. I mean, we lost over 50 fluent Cherokee speakers and I mentioned earlier in the program, that we only have 2000 left. 50 to COVID and more to just the passage of time and old age. But we have many that are active and engaged in language preservation and they have said to me how valuable it's been to be able to be at home and yet still feel like they're part of this great mission that we have at the Cherokee Nation. Understand that this mission that we have is on par with what any nation in history has set as a goal to shoot for whether it's the United States wanting to land a man on the moon, we're trying to save the language. This is that level of importance. And so for an elder to feel like they're connected and still contributing during this past year difficult times, that makes all the difference in the world. And even as I say, as the pandemic recedes and we hope it continues to recede, there is still a need for elders to stay connected. And in many cases they cannot due to poor health, due to the lack of transportation, this knocks down those barriers and so there's a great deal of joy that has been gained from using this technology. And honestly, just talking to elders about young people getting the opportunity to play this video game even some elders that were voice actors in this game, that Presidio helped us develop. I mean, I can't tell you how important that is for somebody to use their language, to make a living. And that's part of how you preserve a language. Presidio has showed us a way that we can do just that. So we're not only training new speakers, we're giving this opportunity many cases to elders to do something that is very productive with the wonderful gift they have, which is the Cherokee language. >> Terrific, well that is really inspiring because potentially this technology could be utilized by generations to come. The current young people that are using this will one day be the elderly. So, Kyle, how do you see this technology potentially on this platform being evolved? What's the next step to keep it really up to date for future generations as it's evolving. >> Yeah, there's a lot of plans on where to take this I can tell you, honestly. From the perspective of the mobile game, you're building on a platform of an open world game means that the imagination is the limit quite honestly. So there are a lot of new characters and new levels and new adventures that are plans to further immerse the speakers in the platform. And I think that will, that will help with reach and it will help with the amount of connection that's built to the chief's point about bridging the older generations into the younger generations over that common bond of the language and the culture that keeps those connections alive. And so we want to expand the mobile game Engage, the navigate to be as accessible and as wide reaching and immersive as it possibly can, and there are a lot of plans in the works for that. And then with the virtual classroom platform, we started with a various focused constituency within the nation of the language immersion school. And there are many other educational services and even healthcare to the chief's earlier point again where I think there's a lot of potential for that one as well. >> All right, well, terrific gentlemen. Thank you so much for your insights, really fantastic hearing how this platform is really a difference in the lives of people in the Cherokee Nation. Of course, that were our guests, Kyle Hines, VP Strategic Accounts at Presidio as well as chief Chuck Hoskin Jr., the chief of the Cherokee Nation. And that's all for today's session at the 2021 AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards, I'm your host for "theCUBE", Natalie Erlich. Thanks so much for watching. (upbeat music)

live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020s brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back to Barcelona Spain everybody this is the cube the leader and live tech coverage and we're here day one for us at Cisco live Barcelona even though we did a little preview game preview yesterday my good friend kena Reilly is here he's the director of customer experience at Cisco and he's joined by Kyle winters Technical Marketing engineer for the customer experience technology and transformation group it's six to go guys great to see you thanks for coming on and you know we love talking customer experience Cisco is a it's a big company big portfolio and a lot of complexity for clients and so bring it all together and customer experience is very important can't we have it a conversation with Alastair early today and he was talking about Cisco's commitment from the top chuck Robbins on down to really improve that customer experience bring essentially a digital virtual experience to your customers and you guys obviously fit into that right absolutely so about two years ago when Chuck brought in Maria Martinez that was the first step into really pushing Cisco to focus more on successful outcomes for customers so we had already always sold that way but with the complexity of technology and how fast technology is moving accelerating value realization for customers has never been bigger especially in the security space because as we've talked before you know with everything that goes on today and the fact that the bad guys are trying to get data faster quicker and different getting the technology in play operational and production it has never been more important and we're gonna dig in with Kyle with some detail and double click into the lifecycle specifically and the different points of that journey but that's really important for any customer experience is really understanding that lifecycle that maturity model can you talk about that a little bit yeah so so with us you know we've been at it for about six years when we started as Lancope so we've got a great model and you know our approach to getting outcomes for customers is completely in line with with the strategy of our products and technologies and all security so it's really important that you align with that strategy because salespeople sell and they sell you the what we sell the how we're gonna get you and so you have to understand what it is that customers need and how that technology maps because you don't want a shelf where and you don't want products or technology sitting there waiting to be implemented because you know these days especially with the move to the cloud it's got to get up and running you know within an hour so our model has always been that way we built our model with customer first and so we are you know we are the security experts we're the trusted security adviser so when we go in and work with customers we completely know exactly those outcomes that they need and with all the sort of technologies and products that we have not only with stealthWatch but the other products that sent ulema tree to us we have in Kyle will talk about how our service is completely aligned with those outcomes and the journeys that we will take our customers on yes a faster adoption means faster time to value obviously let's focus in on stealthWatch Kenneth you came in with the stealthWatch acquisitions been very successful I mean Cisco security business grew 22% last quarter we'll talk more about the sort of umbrella but let's drill in with Kyle to stealthWatch services specifically maybe you could sort of take us through you know at a high level what what the areas are and then we can sort of follow up on yeah yes so so our customer maturity model when it comes to services there's kind of three different stages to it it starts with the visibility stage so we have services around being able to deploy an operational I stealthWatch will bring in our best practices and help customers get up to speed and using the system quickly and efficiently from there we also have services around detection capabilities so being able to use automation and integrations to further the detection capabilities of stealthWatch things like being able to classify host groups through automation from source like IP address management systems things like asset discovering classification service that helped drive segmentation efforts all of these things help improve the behavioral algorithms and processes that stealthWatch is using to detect these threats in real time and then from there we have an integration stage as well - which is all about bridging the gap between stealthWatch and the rest of not only Cisco's portfolio but the entirety of our customer security portfolio as well and some of those services include things like sim integrations being able to integrate stealthWatch with Splunk we have services such as our proxy integration service as well a lot of different types of services that we're able to help get our customers to the next stage with their stealth watch environments I got a lot of questions yeah we could get to it and you guys could take it by stage so yes the sort of visibility that's where you start that's when you do the discovery right so what what are you discovering how do you actually do that discovery so a lot of that is about making sure that we've got all the flow and telemetry that we need from the various different sources of our network coming into stealthWatch feeding into the processes and algorithms that are going on there so a lot of things is not only net flow data but getting ice integrated in there as well being able to pull that user attribution data and being able to find sources of data where we maybe can convert it into net flow if it's not already net flow and be able to ingest that data as well we also in that space typically to help set up customers with a lot of different best practices that kind of get them operationalized very quickly and things like being able to build custom reports and dashboards for them will work through them which is kind of understanding the system from a base level to more of a professional fully operational level a lot of times we come in during the stage two and customers don't even understand what's going on in their network they're seeing things that maybe they've never seen before one stealthWatch turns on a great example actually as we were at a large financial firm and we were able within 30 minutes of being on site with them through our services team we were able to identify rogue DNS servers unsecured telnet going on sequel injections suspicious SMB and that's the sage traffic this is all just within 30 minutes of us coming on there and taking a look at this stuff you don't even want to look at sometimes yeah so who's doing this can I mean is this sort of all automated you've got professionals sort of overseeing it in our society yeah so the team that we have the technology transformation team when we've talked about it before that team is kind of on the bleeding edge of helping customers and you know a lot of these services that that Kyle talked about is we are building services that customers are consuming based on their needs today and that's why the team is very flexible we build you know a lot of these integrations with those requirements in mind and then we take those and we can scale that so these are all field engineers we have developers so in in essence it is like a mini development team that goes out and works on the specific things that customers need to protect themselves okay and my understanding is there's a there's an ongoing learning with the customers and a it's a transfer of knowledge from day one right there the customer is with you on this in each of these phases and you're sort of learning as they go along and that's sort of part of the transfer of knowledge it's I would say even a tool a transfer knowledge too because we're teaching them our best practices and how to best be successful with these systems but we also learn from them what's going on what are the trends that they're seeing how can we help get them to the next stage and that's where our technology and transformation group comes and they're able to be on the cutting edge here the problems that the customers are talking about and be able to take stealthWatch to the next level okay let's dig it to the detection phase so this is where you're classifying things like host groups etc I'm interested in how that happens is that you know it used to be you'd get everybody in a room you start drawing pictures and that just doesn't scale it's too complicated today so can you auto classify stuff how does that all work and use them oh yeah genius math to do that so so traditionally the the you know the MIT's a manual effort to classify your whole group somebody who's very familiar with the network comes in and they say okay these are the DNS servers these are the web servers these are this network scanners oh oh today but the problem is that today's networks are so dynamic and fluid that what the network looks like today is not necessarily going to be the same tomorrow so there needs to be that relief from the analyst to be able to come in there needs to be that automation that they can go in each day and know that their system is going to be classified accurately and meaningfully that way the behavioral detection that is built into stealthWatch is also driven and accurate and meaningful - so we have this service so for example our host group automation service and through that we're able to pull in telemetry and data from various different sources such as IP address management systems cmdbs we can do threat feeds as well external threat feeds and we're able to drive the classification based off of the metadata that we see from these different sources so we're able to write different types of automation rules that essentially pull this data in detect the different patterns that we're seeing with that metadata and then drive that classification stealthWatch that way when you come in that next day you know that your network scanners are gonna be classified as Network scanners and your web servers are gonna be web servers etc etc so you you have that integrity of data coming in every single day yeah so a lot of different data sources data quality obviously really important I mean you'd love it if somebody had like you know a single CMDB from ServiceNow boom and pop it right in but that's not always the case we never always the case there's always a challenge and that's where kind of our services engineers come in they're able to work through these different environments and understand what the main admit what the metadata is where we need to go and how we need to classify and driving the classification from there so it does require a little bit of a human element on the front-end but once we get it worked out it can be fully automated you know there's lots of different sources and the quality of the data is not always there we've seen for example customers who have Excel spreadsheets and everything is just you're all over the place and we have to figure out a way to work with that and that's part of what our engineer success is so before we get to the integration piece can you been following this industry for for a while um security is really exciting space it's growing like crazy it's really hard I did a braking analysis piece you know a few weeks ago just talking about the fragmentation in the business you see startups coming out like crazy big valuations at the same time you see companies like Cisco with big portfolios yeah you mentioned Splunk before and they've kind of become a gold standard for for log files but very complex and you talk to security practitioners and they'll tell you our number one problem is just skillsets so get you know paint a picture of what's going on in the security world and what's in the house cisco is trying to address that so the security teams the analysts all the way up the management chain to the sea so they're under tremendous pressure their businesses are growing and so when their businesses are growing the sort of a tax base is growing and the business is growing faster than they can protect it so with the sort of increase in the economy more money more investment to build more point products so you've got a very stressed team a lot of turnover skill sets aren't great and what do we do as an industry we just give them more technology right more tools more tools complexity avalanche ok they're buried all right so we feel and we've made great strides within the security group within Cisco is we're taking the products that we have and we're integrating them under one platform so that it is in a bunch of point products and so that the that's what everybody else is doing I mean the other guys are acquiring companies then they're trying to integrate those because the customers are saying I don't need another point protocol yeah yeah it's too much so you know with us that's the way we approach it and now with the platform that's going to be launching this year the cisco threat response that we've launched you're gonna see later on in this year that we will be selling and positioned in implementing the entire platform yeah so I have a stat I came up with this and my one of my analyses it was the the worldwide economy is like 86 trillion and we spent about 0.014 percent on security so we're barely scratching the surface so this sort of tools avalanche probably isn't gonna change though integration becomes an extremely important aspect of the customer journeys and it's through that and to continue on that point you just made as well - I believe in our Cisco cybersecurity report from 2017 only fifty four six percent or fifty seven percent of actual threats are being investigated remediated so there's always that need to kind of help build bridge that gap make it easier for people to understand these threats and and mitigate and prioritize know what to go after right which part the integration exactly so we do have a lot of different integration services as well - for example I mentioned our sim integration service one thing that we can really do that's really awesome with that is we're able to deploy for example with Splunk a full-fledged stealthWatch for Splunk application that allows you to utilize stealth watches capabilities directly inside of Splunk without having to actually store an index any data inside of Splunk so all these api's are on demand inside of this app and available throughout the rest of the Splunk capabilities as well so you can extend it into other search reporting correlate that against other sets of data that you have and Splunk you can do quite a bit with it we also have other ways absolutely advantage of that is just obviously integration you're not leaving the environment plus its cost you're saving customers money a lot of a lot of customers kind of see their sim as a single pane of glass so being able to bring that stealthWatch value into that single pane is a huge win for our customers not to mention that reduction in licensing costs as well we have other ways to that we can reduce licensing costs some customers like to send their flow data into their sim for deeper analytics and long-term retention and we have a service we call it our flow adapter service and through this service we're essentially able to take buy flow off of the stealthWatch flow collectors and the buy flow is essentially when the raw net flow hits the stealthWatch flow collectors it's coming from multiple different routers and switches on the network this is gets converted into bi flow which is bi-directional deduplicated stitched together flow records so right there by sending that data into a sim or a data Lake as opposed to ronette flow we see data reduction cost anywhere from 15 to 80% depending on how the customers network is architected great any any favorite customer examples you have that you can share where ya guys have gone in you know provided these services and and it's had an outcome that got the customer excited or you found some bad guys or there's one that's one of my favorites so we have this service we call it our asset discovering classification service and I mentioned the host tree of automation service that's if you have some sort of authoritative source we can pull that information in but if a customer doesn't have that authoritative source they don't know what's on their network and a lot of times too they want to do a segmentation effort they're undergoing network segmentation but they need to understand what's on their network how these devices are communicating and that's where our asset discovery classification service comes in we're able to pull in telemetry not just from stealthWatch but other sources such as ice tetration Active Directory I Pam's again as well and we're able to essentially profile these different devices based off of the nature of their behavior so we were at a kind of a large technology company and we were essentially in this effort trying to segment their security cameras and upon segmenting their security cameras we were able to build this report where we can see the security camera and how its communicating with the other parts of the network and we noticed that there was essentially two IP addresses from inside of their network that were accessing all these different security cameras but they were not authorized to so with this service we were able to see that these different these two hosts were unauthorized actually accessing these devices that got reported up through the management chain and ultimately those two employees were no longer at that technology permanence that was discovered nice to love it alright bring us on we're here in the dev net zone sort of all about hit for structures code and software and and and and talk a little bit about the futures where you see this all going yeah so for us for Cisco security the future is really bright we've either built or acquired a portfolio that the customers really need that get absolute outcomes that customers need and through the customer experience organization certainly stealthWatch is fitting into the broader play to to get customers who have all those technologies get that operational and get them success so when we talked last summer I told you the jury was still out we would see how the journeys gonna go and the journey has started it has gotten much better since the summer and this year I think we're gonna be doing some great things for our customers just we can't get in too much of the business but stealthWatch customers are still expanding because I think we told you last time customers can never get enough stealthWatch okay the attack surface is too big right so so we we feel really good about that and the other technologies that they're building really fit into what customers need we're going to the cloud so they're gonna be able to consume cloud on-prem hybrid protect networks the campus protect their cloud infrastructure so we're really checking a lot of boxes in our group brings it all together and takes all the complexity out of that for customers just to get them the outcomes that I named us Cisco is one of my four star security companies for 2020 okay based on spending data that we share from our friends at ETR and the reason was because cisco has both a large presence in the market and but also you have spending momentum I mentioned 22% you know growth last quarter and the security business but you've also got the expertise you put your money where your mouth is you know the big portfolio which helps if you can bring it together and do these types of integrations it simplifies the customers environment and so that's a winner in my book so I named you along with some other high fliers right you know and you see some really interesting startups coming out and probably acquisition targets probably something that aren't your radar but guys thanks so much for coming on the cube thank you thank you I keep it right there everybody we'll be back with our next guest is a Dave Volante for the cubes 2 min Amanda John Faria are also in the house at Cisco live Barcelona right back

>>From San Francisco. It's the cube covering get lab commit 20, 20 Raji you buy get lab. >>Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is the cubes coverage of get lab commit 2020. We're here in San Francisco. It's a little bit chilly but uh, my first guests, uh, on the program are used to the weather cause they're coming to us from Wisconsin. Uh, both from Northwestern mutual, uh, sitting to my left here is Kyle person who is a senior engineer and sitting to his left is Sean who is also a senior engineer. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. Alright. We thought, you know, both of us coming from colder climates that may be coming to San Francisco would be a little warmer, but they have hand warmers, they have warm drinks and it is the warmth of the community that will warm our innards. I'm short right there. It says get warm. That's what we're here to do. All right, Kyle, let's start with you. Northwestern mutual. I think most people are familiar with the organization, but give us a little bit of a, you know, how people should think of Northwestern mutual in 2020 and, uh, your roles. >>Yeah. So obviously we mean we're a large insurance company but also into financial services and products and we're really trying to become more of a digital company as well. We think that that's going to be a differentiator in the marketplace. You know, having apps that our customers can interact with, um, trying to speed up underwriting, things like that. So we're really just trying to be a technology company as much of an insurance company. Okay, >>great. And Sean, I understand you're, you're on the same team as Kyle helping you along with that digital transformation that that's been all the buzz for the last couple of years. Yeah. He can't get rid of me. We flew, you know, 1200 miles and I'm still sitting next to, uh, but yeah, at Northwestern mutual, I mean, going back a number of years now, the, the company started down this path of doing a digital transformation where we wanted to be, you know, a software company that is providing financial service and financial stability for our clients. So it was a big shift that we, we started, we knew we needed to modernize everything. So we started down that path. Great. So we had that. So Kyle, maybe if you, it can, you know, when did get lab enter the picture, what was kind of the initial use case and, uh, let's, let's go from there. >>Yeah, it was before my time. I'm, Chad has been there for a long time. Most of the ride, but uh, yeah, it's been several years and it's been, uh, you know, starting out with SCM, moving into CEI and then, you know, adopted sustainer journey that you hear about even in the keynote today. That's pretty much how we charted our course. Okay. >>So Sean, you've been there since the beginning of a, uh, to get lab usage? Pretty much it, it showed up a couple months before I got there. But, uh, going back to your early mid 22, yeah, 2015, uh, we had kind of a more of a pilot group of engineers that were, were starting out, you know, to get us down this path to where we wanted to go and they needed a new tool, something that worked better than what we currently had at an M and a, they settled on, on get lab because it provided, you know, one being open source was a huge selling point for us. Um, and it was just ever-growing. So it allowed our developers to really get going and get going much faster. Okay, great. And in the keynote, okay, Kyle, they were talking about how it's not just about the dev, the second the ops, but really not allowing everybody into the same tooling, even marketing and finance. What's kind of the breadth of the organization is it is mostly devs that dev and ops does security, you know, who, who's involved in using this tooling. >>It's everybody. We're a, we're figuring out our, you know, everyone's kinda got their own spin on things. So we're in that, um, classic position where I think we have the tooling sprawl that everyone talks about and we're, we're constantly evaluating, you know, how does Gilad fit into that picture? What do we bolt on? You know, we have the luxury of being able to integrate with other things as well. But then if certainly if we can get an economy of scale where we can just use get lab, it's to provide that seamless interface. That's something we always look to do too. All right. >>So Sean, my understanding is a NM is also using Coubernetties and that's something that you're involved in. So very money you bring us in people, you know, sometimes get misconstrued as to the scope and the purpose of, of Kubernetes. We've been at the cube con cloud date of con for a number of years, but uh, why don't you set the stage for us and kind of walk us through the, the what and the why of Kubernetes? Yeah. For us at least being able to leverage something like Kubernetes, which when you really back out and you know, do the 10,000 foot view, it's container management and being able to go into a more modern architecture. We're leveraging containers for pretty much whatever we can, or at least what makes sense. Um, and that's kind of how we started down the path with get lab moving into Kubernetes. You know, we were, we were trying to figure out like, where do we want to go so, you know, let's not just push the boat out a little, let's drop, kick the boat off the end of the pier and see where we end up. >>So we started working down that path of deploying get lab into Kubernetes cause it allowed us to easily expand and make the application highly available. So even if some easies go down in AWS, which knock on wood never happens. Uh, we're still good to go. Our users are, wouldn't even notice. Okay. Um, so you mentioned AWS. Is that your primary cloud, your only cloud? What, what is your cloud situation? Yeah, that's, that's a Northwestern mutual is public cloud. Okay, great. And speak a little bit to, you know, Amazon does have plenty of its own tooling. Uh, maybe a little bit about how get lab and, how those fit together for you. Um, well, I mean, we use get lab CIS specifically to be able to provision different services in one, not that we need as long as they fit near within our security requirements. And, you know, everything we do, we get vetted out through our internal processes, but it's really allowed our developers to move forward so much faster. >>You know, it's kind of gone are the days of, let me fill out a request for, you know, X, Y, Z and, you know, wait two as it goes through somebody's work queue and they eventually get around to it. Um, allowing our developers to just, you know, do their commits, get their, you know, peer review and just deploy and provision right away, allows us to get our applications to market just so much faster than even a few years ago. Alright. So Kyle, the two of you are presenting here at the show, uh, you know, we, we love, we heard GitLab talking on stages. You know, customers don't just use it, they commit, they add feedback in and they speak at the show. So maybe speak a little bit of, uh, you know, NMS, you know, involvement as to uh, you know, are you committing code and what, what are you speaking about? >>So we're here to speak about our journey on Kubernetes. I'm trans covering the application side and I'm going to talk about our, our dabble in Kubernetes CII. So we're, we're really looking to, um, we're looking for efficiencies I guess in, in density. That's a primary driver behind trying to explore the trail. But also, um, one of the things I'll talk about in the talk is, is boosting our security posture using Kubernetes. So a lot of times people are using API keys and they're getting stale and not being rotated. Uh, we can do some neat things with Kubernetes and it's native. I am offerings to boost our security posture by moving towards role based access and getting those credentials that are rotating and providing us, uh, you know, non stale sort of authentication credentials, things like that. >>Sean, yeah, pretty much covers it. Uh, uh, and beyond with the CIA, you know, being able to run and get lab itself within Qube and having the different components broken out and we're alive. It's, it, it's enabling us to limit any kind of attack plane that could exist. You know, it's, you have to get through a lot to even get to it. So it's really just been a huge, a huge plus for us. OK. I, I'd love to hear both. Both of you have been to these events a number of times. You're speaking to event. What, what, what's the value of coming to get loud commit? I mean, for me it's a, a huge networking thing and being able to relay our experiences that we've gone through to other people that are out in the community. I mean, I know lots of, you know, everyone wants to see, you know, what can you do in Kubernetes and like, here's some of the things that we've done. >>Here's some of the things that you know, works that didn't work. You know, we would recommend you going this kind of route if we were to start it over again. And beyond that, you know, meeting people from all over the world, like, uh, we were talking with some, uh, some guy, gentleman Nico from white duck who is from Germany. It's not something you get to do, you know, face to face all the time. Alright. Sean, can you share with our audience any of those? You know, if we could do it over again, we'd change something. Is it an organizational thing or technical piece or until don't don't use EFS for getting repo data. It will not end well for you can take away. All right. Kyle, how about you? You've been to a number of these shows, uh, you know, the networking, the piece or you know, what else, what, what, what, what for you personally and for NM, uh, you know, brings you back. >>Yeah. Networking is a big thing. I think it's also getting feedback on, you know, what we're doing. Does it make sense? Just like get lab is throwing things out there early, trying to tighten up that contribution loop. We want to get our ideas out there and then this is an opportunity for people to ask questions about our presentation. If maybe we're off in the wrong direction, maybe we can get that steered back on course. Um, you know, we're just really here to get the feedback. Yeah. I always love talking to people in the financial industry and you talk about open source, you know, if, if you went back, you know, five years ago, you'd probably get a little bit of sideways looks as to wait, you know, you're doing what, um, are we past that? Do do you feel are most people, uh, you know, really understanding where we are with, with cloud and open source in general that it, you know, it makes perfect sense for a financial institution to be part of it. >>I'd say at NM we, we've finally gotten past that curve and now we're, we're trying to, you know, make it even easier for our internal developers to easier participate in open source, you know, their internal products and contribute more to the community. Uh, we've completely done an about face from, you know, probably 15 years ago where it was open source. You wanted to, what to, yeah, let's go. How can we make things better? It's, it's all about, you know, our, our customers. So we want to make sure we create the best product and experience for them. That's awesome. Yeah, there's still some barriers there. I mean, it's all about managing risk, right? So you have to do things diligently and make sure that your bases are covered. And so it's not like it can be a free for all. We have to do our due diligence, but we, you know, we love to contribute. And we love to get up without their there as we can. All right. Well, Kyle and Sean, thank you so much for sharing with our audience. Best of luck with your presentations and, uh, have a great time at the show. Thank you. All right. Uh, thank you to, to NM for joining us. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching the cube.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18, #know18. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with Dave Vellante. We're joined by Gemma Kyle. She's the head of management assurance at MLC. She's straight from Sydney. So welcome Gemma. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Let's start off by having you tell our viewers a little bit about MLC. >> Sure. MLC is a life insurance company. It's interestingly Australia's oldest and newest life insurance company. We were recently sold by National Australia Bank to Nipon Life, a Japanese life insurance company. And we are now, thanks to the investment of capital from Nipon into MLC Life Insurance, Australia's newest stand-alone life insurance company. So we come as a 130 year old company with 1.4 million customers. But also we're investing in new technology, new infrastructure, new processes, new business operations. >> So, insurance is one of those industries that hasn't been radically disrupted. And I wonder what the conversation is like internally. Is there a complacency? "Not in our industry," "Not in my lifetime," "I'll be retired by then." Or is there paranoia? >> It's a great question. Look, it hasn't been disrupted, but it will be. I can't talk for the American market, but certainly in the Australian market we have 17 players right now and we know that they are going to consolidate down to eight or nine and we want to be one of those eight or nine. The disruption is going to come from the fact that previously there had been complacency. Customers had not been communicated with, invariably because their life insurance sits within a broader wealth management product called superannuation. Now, what's happening is customers are becoming more informed, more demanding and want more access to more flexible and innovative products that can follow them through their life cycles of marriage and children and mortgage. We really need to be on the front foot to offer the right kind of products and life insurance products to meet our customers' need. >> So, superannuation was not a term that I was familiar with. And I don't want to go too deep into it, but it's basically Australia's version of Social Security, except you can see your money. You can invest, you have control over where it goes and it's yours. >> Gemma: That's correct. >> It's not just some black hole. >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Okay, nice. >> I was just thinking about when you were talking about how customers are starting to demand more. So, when you think about digital transformation, is that what's leading the charge, would you say? >> Absolutely, absolutely. When we talk about digital transformation, it's really about breaking down the silos that previously existed within companies. And it's not just life insurance companies, it's all types of financial services. So previously, we would have the actuaries who do the pricing of our products and the advisors who sell our products, were the gods of the insurance industry. Now, when we look towards digital transformation, it becomes technology, it becomes process and it becomes risk management and control that are in the ascendancy. This is really critical because customers are looking to self-serve. They want to make their own choices. So that's where we need to meet them. We need to break down the traditional barriers between the silos and have a single platform that we can use a data analytics to better serve our customers. >> So, the advisors are getting disrupted by the whole self service trend. The actuaries. Are we getting robo-actuaries now with machines? >> Well, I don't see why not. >> Right, the data's there. >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, we are actually required under regulation to have a chief actuary, and that absolutely makes sense. But what we're starting to have now is automatic underwriting engines. So, previously you would apply for an insurance policy and the underwriter would come in, who has an actuarial background, and they'd price the risk you present to the business. These days we have sufficient data, that as soon as you put your information into the system, we can automatically approve a policy for you. That automated underwriting is an example of the type of disruption we're starting to see. >> But humans are still the last mile, if necessary. Is that right? >> Gemma: Absolutely, absolutely. Advisors are important because they help our customers understand their financial need. And advisors are very strongly regulated within the Australian market. They're required to have a qualification. And we've recently seen changes to our legislation around the requirement to, evidence that they are treating customers honestly, efficiently and fairly. And selling them products that they need, not that they have been encouraged to sell by another supplier. >> What's your biggest challenge? (laughs) Top three. >> Yeah, yeah, top three. Look, without a doubt, it's cultural change. Cultural change. By cultural change, I mean the behaviors and the beliefs that surround not just internally how we manage risk and compliance, but also externally around how customers perceive the insurance industry. We definitely suffer from a lack of trust. Now, the disruption that we're facing is that customers are saying "We don't trust you," and it's not well founded. It actually doesn't bear out in the data in terms of how we pay our claims and how we service our customers. But there's certainly an image problem there. So, we think we need to service, we think we need to address this cultural issue from the inside out. We need to fix ourselves and make sure that we, can with integrity, defend the decisions we make around how we service our customers and then in turn have customers really trust us. See what we do. Trust us by how we behave, not just what we say. >> When you're talking about the behaviors, changing the behaviors, how is security, risk, compliance, how is that all perceived within your company? >> Yeah, yeah. Well, like I said, the actuaries are king. They have sophisticated data models through which they can price policies. And, where we've traditionally been with risk and compliance is very much in a qualitative space around actions that are undertaken, or senses that things aren't working as well as they should do. What we've started to do, and this service now has been absolutely critical to this journey, we're starting to shift the conversation away from risk and compliance and towards business process and control. We're simply shifting the conversation away from a focus on risk exposures, or the things you must do and onto the cost benefit analysis of control investment options. That allows our executive and our board to start to use data and analytics to drive decision making around where we need to focus our efforts. >> So you're turning all of this kind of back office risk oriented stuff into a value proposition for the organization. >> Gemma: Exactly right. >> Can you talk a little bit more on how ServiceNow participates in that process? >> Sure. Ultimately, the value proposition. It is about behaviors, but the value proposition is all around being able to defend the decisions that you make. Being able to demonstrate with data and analytics. And being able to put a quantified amount of money on the bottom line around what's the value to actually changing our behaviors, or changing the way we manage your process. ServiceNow is obviously critical to that, because they have this amazing performance analytics engine that enables us to draw data out of the system as it relates to business process. As it relates to operational loss events. As it relates to customer complaints. As it relates to asset management. And integrate it to tell a story of where we're most exposed. To loss today and potential loss tomorrow. It's a very powerful tool that even our, surprisingly, our CEO, not only does he now use his app that we've created for him, but he personally calls people in the office to say "Hey, I see you've got "an overdue action here, what are you doing about it?" Now, I know, nobody wants that call. (laughs) Nobody wants that call. So consequently, we've got this incredible tone from the top that reinforces how important it is to pay attention to your controls, to your obligations, to genuinely own them. That's when you start to see the cultural change. >> You don't do business in Europe, do you? >> Gemma: No. >> Is there a GDPR equivalent in Australia, if you're familiar with GDPR? >> Gemma: No, sorry. >> Okay, so, it's all about privacy. So, the GDPR? >> Gemma: Oh, oh. Yes, yes. >> The fines go into effect this month and that doesn't affect you because you're not doing business in Europe. But is there something similar in Australia where if a customer says "I want to know "what data you have on me." Or, "I want you to delete that data." You have to prove that. It's quite onerous. But, is there anything similar for you guys? >> Gemma: Absolutely, absolutely. So, we've actually got two things. First of all, we do have the privacy act. And under the privacy act that's been in place for quite some time, all individuals, whether you're an employee or a customer, you have access to your data. And, you also have the right to be taken off lists and call trees and the like. The government's just recently introduced CPS147, which is a prudential standard around data breaches. Now previously, if there was a breach of data. Say for example, we accidentally send a letter to the wrong customer, and in that letter it has personal details about somebody's medical history. Now previously that was not okay from a privacy perspective, but it wasn't notifiable to the regulator. With CPS147, we now have a notifiable data breach system. It's just come in place. And we have to notify the regulator when we breach somebody's privacy, somebody's data. And we could be subject to fines. >> And does the ServiceNow platform play a role in that, in terms of just tracking the notification, or compliance, or? >> Absolutely, absolutely. So, when the change in legislation was introduced, we simply added literally another little tick box into our operational loss event module to say, "Is this a data breach?" And just simply by doing that, now when you log a loss event, and you tick that little box, we can see from across the company where are our data breaches happening? And if they're a cluster. Is there something here that's telling us that we've got a systemic problem that we need to fix? As soon as it came in, we were automatically reporting on it. >> One of the things we're hearing is that there's so much great customer-on-customer learning that takes place at Knowledge. Are you finding that? Are you talking with a lot of customers, and about how you use the platform? And success? >> Absolutely. This is a really exciting conference. I'm really having such a good time and sort of overcoming my jet lag, to tell the truth. It is very exciting. In Australia, we've already started some groups. So, we work with other, myself and my systems manager, Greg Dominich, the two of us tend to go to a lot of companies to talk about our experiences with the implementation of ServiceNow. What worked well, what didn't work well and what we would do better. Because we want to create a community of practice. We want to lift the practice of risk management above where it currently sits. And so, walking around here there's so many networking events, and this hall in particular, is wonderful. So yes, talking to lots of other customers. Just sharing innovations. It's very exciting. >> How long have you, when did you go live with ServiceNow? >> Okay, so, we went live, let's see, probably in, the first GIC module went live in June, 2017. We then had another iteration in September, 2017. So, we've basically spread it out to make sure. The next modules we're looking to introduce are business continuity management. Each time, we follow the same, we use the PPM tool, that ServiceNow provides to actually implement the modules. But then we have a process that we follow ourselves in terms of putting in the data, cleaning it, categorizing it, making sure we've got the analytics right and then we step to the next module. Interestingly enough, cultural change doesn't happen once you've implemented the system. Cultural change starts at the very point where you recognize there's an opportunity to do better. So, as we implement each module, we're also maturing our practices. And we're also changing the culture of how the business approaches risk and compliance. >> What's your relationship with IT in all of this? How does that all work? >> Look, it's very close. It's part of the transformation journey that those silos still exist. And they exist because we all create our own languages for understanding our world and how we engage with a business. Now, it's about breaking down those barriers. So, we work very closely with them on security management, on business continuity management and on incident management. And we're going through the process now of aligning our language so that once we have that shared language, we have the shared data and we can really become quite powerful. >> Rebecca: Great. Well Gemma, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It's been a really fun conversation. >> Thank you very much. It's been nice to hear. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from.

>> Announcer: From Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts, it's theCube! Covering VTUG Winter Warmer 2018. Presented by SiliconeANGLE. (energetic music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCube's coverage of the VTUG Winter Warmer 2018, the 12th year of this user group, fifth year we've had theCube here. I happen to have on the program a first-time guest, Kyle Ruddy, who's a Senior Technical Marketing Engineer with VMware, knows a thing or two about virtualization. >> Maybe a couple of things. >> Stu: Thanks for joining us, Kyle. >> Oh, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. >> All right, so Kyle, I know you were sitting at home in Florida and saying, "What I'd like to do is come up in the 20s. "It kind of feels like single digits." Why did you leave the warmth of the south to come up here to the frigid New England? >> (chuckles) Yeah, well, it was a great opportunity. I've never been to one of the VTUGs before, so they gave me a chance to talk about something that I'm extremely passionate about which is API usage. Once I got the invite, no-brainer, made the trip. >> Awesome! So definitely, Jonathan Frappier who we asked to be on the program but he said Kyle's going to be way better. (Kyle chuckles) Speak better, you got the better beard. (Kyle laughs) I think we're just going to give Frappier a bunch of grief since he didn't agree to come on. Give us first a little bit about your background, how long you been VMware, what kind of roles have you had there? >> Yeah, absolutely! So I've probably been in IT for over 15 years, a long-time customer. I did that for about 10 to 12 years of the IT span doing everything from help desk working my way up to being on the engineer side. I really fell in love with automation during that time period and then made the jump to the vendor side. I've been at VMware for about two years now where I focus on creating content and being at events like these to talk about our automation strategy for vSphere. >> Before you joined VMware, were you a vExpert? Have you presented at VMUGs? >> Yes, yes, so I've been a vExpert. I think I'm going on seven years now. I've helped run the Indianapolis VMUG for five to six years. I've presented VMUGs all over the country. >> Yeah, one of the things we always emphasize, especially at groups like this, is get involved, participate, it can do great things for your career. >> Yes, absolutely! I certainly wouldn't be here without that kind of input and guidance. >> Indy VMUG's a great one, a real large one here, even though I hear this one here has tended to be a little bit bigger, but a good rivalry going on there. I want to talk about the keynote you talked about, automation and APIs. It's not kind of the virtualization 101, so what excites you so much about it? And let's get in a little bit, talk about what you discussed there. >> Yeah, absolutely! We were talking about using Ansible with the vSphere 6.5 RESTful APIs. That's something that's new, brand new, to vSphere 6.5, and really just being able to, when those were released, allow our users and our customers to make use of those APIs in however way that they wanted to. If you look back at some of our prior APIs and our SDKs, you were a little more constrained. They were SOAP-based so there was a lot of overhead that came with those. There was a large learning curve that also came along with those. So by switching to REST, it's a whole lot more user friendly. You can use it with tools like Ansible which that was just something that Jon knew quite well. I thought that was a perfect opportunity for me to finally do a presentation with Jon. It went quite well. I think the audience learned quite a bit. We even kind of relayed to the audience that this isn't something that's just for vSphere. Ansible is something you can use with anything. >> For somebody out there watching this, how do they get started? What's kind of some of the learning curve that they need to do? What skillsets are they going to build on versus what they need to learn for new? >> Sure. A lot of the ways to really get started with these things, I've created a ton of blog posts that are out there on the VMware {code} blog. The first one is just getting started with the RESTful APIs that we've provided. There's a program that's called Postman, we give a couple of collections that you can automatically import and start using that. Ansible has some really good documentation on getting started with Ansible and whichever environment you're choosing to work or use it with. So they've got a Getting Started with vSphere, they've got a Getting Started with different operating systems as well. Those are really good tools to get started and get that integrated into your normal working environment. Obviously, we're building on automation here. We're building on... At least when I was in admin, I got involved in automation because there was a way for me to automate and get rid of those tasks, those menial tasks that I didn't really enjoy doing. So I could automate that, push that off, and get back to something that I cared about that I enjoyed. >> Yeah, great point there 'cause, yeah, some people, they're a little bit nervous, "Oh, wait, are these tools going to take away my job?" And to repeat what you were just saying, "No, no." There's the stuff that you don't really love doing and that you probably have to do a bunch. Those are the things that are probably, maybe the easiest to be able to move to the automation. How much do people look at this and be like, "Wait, no, once I start automating it, "then I kind of need to care, and feed, and maintain that, "versus just buying something off the shelf "or using some service that I can do." Any feedback on that? >> Well, it's more of a... It's a passion thing. If it's something that you're really get ingrained in, you really enjoy, then you're going to want to care and feed that because it's going to grow. It's going to expand into other areas of your environment. It's going to expand into other technologies that are within your environment. So of course, you can buy something. You could get somebody from... There are professional services organizations involved, so you don't have to do the menial tasks of updating that. Say if you go from one version to a next version, you don't have to deal with that. But if you're passionate about it, you enjoy doing that, and that's where I was. >> The other thing I picked up on is you said some of these things are new only in 6.5. One of the challenges we've always had out there is, "Oh, wait, I need to upgrade. "When can I do it? "What challenges I'm going to have?" What's the upgrade experience like now and anything else that you'd want to point out that said, "Hey, it's time to plan for that upgrade "and here are some of the things that are going to help you"? >> We actually have an End of Availability and End of Support coming up for vSphere 5.5. That's going to be coming up in here later this year in September-October timeframe. So you're not going to be able to open up a support request for that. This is a perfect time to start planning that upgrade to get up to at least 6.0, if not 6.5. And the other thing to keep in mind is that we've announced deprecation for the Windows version of vSphere. Moving forward past our next numbered release, that's going to be all vCenter Server Appliance from that point forward. Now we also have a really great tool that's called the VCSA Migration tool that you can use to help you migrate from Windows to the Appliance. Super simple, very straightforward, gives you a migration assistant to even point out some of those places where you might miss if you did it on your own. So that's a really great tool and really helps to remove that pain out of that process. >> Yeah, it's good, you've got a mix of a little bit of the stick, you got to get off! (Kyle chuckles) I know a lot of people still running 5.5 out there as well as there's the carrot out there. All the good stuff that's going to get you going. All right, hey, Kyle, last thing I want to ask is 2018. Boy, there's a lot of change going on in the industry. One, how do you keep up with everything, and two, what's exciting you about what's happening in the industry right now? >> As far as what excites me right now, Python. That's been something that's been coming up a lot more with the folks that I'm talking to. Even today, just at lunch, I was talking to somebody and they were bringing up Python. I'm like, "Wow!" This is something that keeps coming up more and more often. I'm using a lot more of my time, even my personal time, to start looking at that. And so when you start hearing the passion of people who are using some of these new technologies, that's when I start getting interested because I'm like, "Hey, if you're that interested, "and you're that passionate about it, "I should be too." So that's kind of what drives me to keep learning and to keep up with all of the latest and greatest things that are out there. Plus when you have events like this, you can go talk to some of the sponsors. You can talk and see what they're doing, how to make use of their product, and some of their automation frameworks, and with what programming languages. That kind of comes back to Python on that one because a lot more companies are releasing their automation tools for use with Python. >> Yeah, and you answered the second part of my question probably without even thinking about it. The passion, the excitement, talking to your peers, coming to events like this. All right, Kyle Ruddy, really appreciate you joining us here. We'll be back with more coverage here from the VTUG Winter Warmer 2018. I'm Stu Miniman. You're watching theCube. (energetic music)

>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the cubes presentation of the a startup showcase. This is our season two episode four of the ongoing series covering exciting hot startups from the a AWS ecosystem. And here we talk about cybersecurity. I'm John furrier, your host we're joined by Carl Mattson, CISO, chief information security officer of no name security, keep alumni. We just chatted with you at reinforce a business event. We're here to talk about securing APIs from code to production. Carl, thanks for joining. >>Good to see you again. Thanks for the invitation, John. >>You know, one of the hottest topics right now about APIs is, you know, it's a double edged sword, you know, on one hand, it's the goodness of cloud APIs make the cloud. That's the API first. Now you're starting to see them all over the place. Is APIs everywhere, securing them and manage them. It's really a top conversation at many levels. One, you're gonna have a great API, but if you're gonna manipulate the business logic, that's a problem too. So a lot going on with APIs, they're the underpinnings of the modern enterprise. So take us through your view here. How are you guys looking at this? You want to continue to use APIs, they're critical connective tissue in the cloud, but you also gotta have good plumbing. Where, what do you do? How do you secure that? How do you manage it? How do you lock it down? >>Yeah, so the, the more critical APIs become the more important it becomes to look at the, the API as really a, a, a unique class of assets, because the, the security controls we employ from configuration management and asset management, application security, both testing and, and protection like, like EDR, the, the, the platforms that we use to control our environments. They're, they're, they're poorly suited for APIs. And so >>As the API takes prominence in the organization, it goes from this sort of edge case of, of, of a utility now to like a real, a real crown jewel asset. And we have to have, you know, controls and, and technologies in place and, and, and skilled teams that can really focus in on those controls that are, that are unique to the API, especially necessary when the API is carrying like business critical workloads or sensitive data for customers. So we really have to, to sharpen our tools, so to speak, to, to focus on the API as the centerpiece of a, of an application security program, >>You know, you guys have a comprehensive view. I know the philosophy of the company is rooted in, in, in API life cycle development management runtime. Can you take a minute to explain and give an overview of no name security? And then I wanna jump into specifically the security platform and the capabilities. >>Sure. So we're an API security company just under three years old now. And, and we we've taken a new look at the API, looking at it from a, from a, a full lifecycle perspective. So it, it, isn't new to application security professionals that APIs are, are a software asset that needs to be tested for security, vulnerabilities, security testing prior to moving into production. But the reality is, is the API security exposures that are hitting the news almost every day. A lot of those things have to do with things like runtime errors and misconfigurations or changes made on the fly, cuz APIs are, are changed very rapidly. So in order for us to counter API risks, we have to look at the, the full life cycle from, from the moment the developer begins, coding the source code level through the testing gates, through the, the operational configuration. And then to that really sophisticated piece of looking at the business logic. And, and as you mentioned, the, the business logic of the API is, is unique and can be compromised with, with exploits that, that are specific to an API. So looking at the whole continuum of API controls, that's what we focused on. >>It's interesting, you know, we've had APIs for a while. I mean, I've never heard and seen so much activity now more than ever around APIs and security. Why is it recently we're seeing this conversation increase with specific solutions and why are we seeing more breaches and concerns about security? Because APIs are hardened. I mean, like, what's the big deal. Why now what's the big focus? Why is APIs becoming more in the conversation for CSOs and companies to secure? And why is it a problem? >>Well, take, take APIs that we had, you know, eight, 10 years ago, most of those were, were internally facing APIs. And so there were a lot of elements of the API design that we would not have put in place if we had intended that to be public facing authentication and authorization. That that was, is we kind of get away with a little bit of sloppy hygiene when it's internal to the network. But now that we're exposing those APIs and we're publishing APIs to the world, there's a degree of precision required. So when we, when we put an API out there for public consumption, the stakes are just much higher. The level of precision we need the business criticality, just the operational viability and the integrity of that API has to be precise in a way that really wasn't necessary when the API was sort of a general purpose internal network utility as it was in the past. And then the other, other area of course, is then just the sheer use of a API at the infrastructure layer. So you think about AWS, for example, most of the workloads in the modern cloud, they communicate and talk via API. And so those are even if they're internally facing APIs misconfigurations can occur and they could be public facing, or they could be compromised. And so we wanna look at all, all of the sort of facets of APIs, because now there's so much at stake with getting API security, right. >>You know, this brings up the whole conversation around API to API, and you guys talk about life cycle, right? The full life cycle of an API. Can you take me through that and what you mean by that? Because, you know, some people will say, Hey, APIs are pretty straightforward. You got source code, you can secure it. Code scanning, do a pen test. We're done why the full cycle approach is it because APIs are talking to third parties? Is it because what I mean, what's the reason what, what's the focus, why full life cycle of an API? Why should a company take this approach? >>Sure. So there's, there's really three sort of primary control areas that we look at for, for APIs as like what I call the traditional controls. There would be those to, to test and ensure that the source code itself has as quality or is, is secure. And that can, that can, of course, usually a step one. And that's, that's an important thing to, to do, but let's say let's for the sake of discussion that API that is designed securely is deployed into production, but the production environment in which it's deployed, doesn't protect that API the way that the developer intended. So a great example would be if an API gateway doesn't enforce the authentication policy intended by the developer. And so there we have, there's not the developer's fault. Now we have a misconfiguration in production. And so that's a, that's a type of example also where now a, an attacker can send a sort of a single request to that API without authentication or with, you know, misformed authentication types and, and succeed resulting in data. >>The waft didn't protect against it. It was secure code. And so when we look at the sequence of API controls, they all really have to be in sync because source code is really the first and most important job, but good, good API design and source code doesn't solve all challenges for their production environment. We have to look at the whole life cycle in order to counter the risk IBM's research last year in its X worth survey, estimated that 60% of all API breaches are due to misconfiguration, not to source code design. And so that's really where we have to marry the two of the runtime protection configuration management with the, the, the source code testing and design. >>It's, it's interesting, you know, we've all been around the block, we've seen the early days and you know, it was really great back in the day you sling an API, Hey, you know, Carl, you have an API for that. Oh, sure. I'll bang it out tonight. You know? So, so the, you know, they've gotten better, I'm over simplifying, but you get the idea they've been kind of really cool to work with and connect with systems. It's now plumbing. Okay. So organizations have, are dealing with this, they're dealing with APIs and more of them, how do they know where they stand? Is there like a API discovery capability? What do they do? What does a CSO do? What does a staff do saying, okay, you know what? We don't wanna stop the API movement cuz that's key to the cloud. How do we reign it in? How do we reign in the chaos? What do they do? Is there playbook? What does, how does an organization know exactly where it stands with the state of their APIs? >>Yeah. That, and that's usually where we started a discussion with a, with a customer is, is, is a diagnosis, right? Because when we, when we look at sort of diagnosing what our API risk exposure, the, you know, the, the first critical control is always know your assets and, and that we, we have to discover them. So we, we, we employ usually discovery as the very first step to see the full ecosystem of APIs, whether they're internal, external facing, whether they're routed through a gateway or whether they're routed through a WF, we have to see the full picture and then analyze that API footprint in terms of its network context, it's vulnerabilities, it's configuration qualities so that we can see a picture of where we are now in, in any particular organization, we may find that there's a, a, a, a high quality of source code. >>Perhaps the gaps are in configuration, or we may see the reverse. And so we, we don't necessarily make an assumption about what we'll find, but we know that that observability is really the, the first step in that, in that process is just to really get a firm sort of objective understanding of, of where the APIs are. And, and the really important part about the, the observability to the API inventory is to do it with the context also of the sense of the data types. Because, you know, for example, we see organizations, our own research showed that for organizations over 10,000 employees, the average population of APIs is over 25,000 in each organization, 25,000 AP thousand APIs is an extraordinary amount to, to even contemplate a human understanding of. So we have to fingerprint our APIs. We have to look at the sensitive data types so that we can apply our intellect and our resources towards protecting those APIs, which have, which are carrying sensitive data, or which are carrying critical workloads, because there are a lot of APIs that still remain today, even sort of internally facing utilities, work courses that keep the lights on, but not particularly high risk when it comes to sensitive data. >>So that, that, that triage process of like really honing in on the, on the high risk activity or the high risk APIs that they're carrying sensitive data, and then then sort of risk exposure assessing them and to see where an organization is. That's always the first step, >>You know, it's interesting. I like your approach of having this security platform that gives the security teams, the ability to kinda let the developers do their thing and, and then have this kind of security ops kind of platform to watch and monitor and any potential attacks. So I can see the picture there. I have to ask you though, as a CSO, I mean, what's different now, because back in the old days where API's even on the radar and two, there's a big discussion around software supply chain. This kind of this API is now a new area. As you'd been referring to people, stealing data, things are in transit with APIs. What is the, the big picture, if you had to kind of scope out the magnitude of like the API problem and, and relevance for a fellow CSO, how, how would you have that conversation? You'd be like, Hey, APIs are outta control. You gotta reign it in. Or is it a 10 and a 10? Is it a eight? I mean, yep. Take me through a conversation you're having with security teams or other CSOs around the magnitude of the scoped scoping the problem. >>Yeah. So I, I think of the, the, the API sort of problem space has a lot of echoes to the, to the conversations and the thought processes we were having about public cloud adoption a few years ago. Right. But there was, there were early adopters of public cloud and, and over the course of time, there was sort of a, an acquiescence to public cloud services. And now we have like actually like robust enterprise grade controls available in public cloud. And now we're all racing to get there. If we, if we have anything in the data center left, we're, we're trying to get to the public cloud as fast as possible. And so I think organization by organization, you'll, you'll see a, a, a reminiscent sort of trajectory of, of API utilization, because like an application we're out of gone are the days of the monolithic application, where it's a single, you know, a single website with one code base. >>And I kind of compare that to the data center, this comparison, which is the monolithic application is now sort of being decomposed into microservices and APIs. There are different differences in terms of how far along that decomposition into microservices and organization is. But we definitely see that the, that that trend continues and that applications in the, you know, three to five to 10 year timeframe, they increasingly become only APIs. So that an organization's app development team is almost exclusively creating APIs as, as the, as the output of software development. Whereas there's a, there's a journey to, towards that path that we see. And so, so a security team looking at this problem set, what I, you know, advise for, for a CISO. The looking at this maybe for the first time is to think about this as this is the competency that we, our security teams need to have. That competency may, may be at different degrees of criticality, depending on where that company is in transition. But it's not a, it's not a question of if it's a question of when and how fast do we need to develop this competency in a team because our applications will become almost exclusively APIs over time, just like our infrastructures are on the way to becoming almost exclusively public cloud hosted over time. >>Yeah. I mean, get on the API bus basically is the message like, look it, if you're not on this, you're gonna have a lot of problems. So in a way there's a proactive nature here for security teams at the same time, it's still out there and growing, I mean, the DevOps movement was essentially kind of cavalier, very Maverick oriented, sling APIs around no problem, Linga Franco connecting to other systems and API to an endpoint to another application. That's what it was. And so as it matures, it becomes much more of a, as you say, connective tissue in the cloud native world, this is real. You agree with that obviously? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that the, I think that these, these API connections are, are, are the connective tissue of most of what we do right now. Even if we are, are not, you know, presently conscious of it, but they're, they're increasingly gonna become more and more central. So that's, that's, that's a, that's a journey whether, whether the, the focus on API security is to let's say, put the toothpaste back in the tube for something that's already broken, or whether it is preventative or prep preparing for where the organization goes in the future. But both of those, both of those are true. Or both of those are valid reasons to emphasize the investment in API security as a, as a talent processes, technologies all the above. >>Okay. You sold me on I'm the customer for a minute. Okay. And now I'm gonna replay back to you. Hey, Carl, love it. You sold me on this. I'm gonna get out front we're we're in lift and shift mode, but we can see APIs as we start building out our cloud native. And, but I'm really trying to hire a team. I got a skills gap here too. Yep. That's one customer. Yep. The other customers, Hey man, we've been on this train for a while. Kyle. We, we, we feel you, we in DevOps pioneer, we're now scaling out. We got all kinds of sprawl, API sprawl. How do I reign it in? And what do you guys do? What's your answer to those scenarios from a security platform perspective and how does that, what's the value proposition in those scenarios? >>I think the value proposition of what we've done is really to, to lean into the API as the, as the answer key to the problem set. So, you know, whether it's integrating security testing into a code repo, or a C I C D pipeline, we can automate security testing and we can do that very efficiently in, in such a way that one applic when a one API security specialist with the right tools, it ins insulates the organization from having to go out and hire 10 more people, because they've all, all of a sudden have this explosive growth and development. There's so much about API security that can capitalize on automation and capitalize on API integrations. So the API integrations with web application firewalls, with SIM systems, those types of workflows that we can automate really do empower a team to, to use automation to scale and to approach the problem set without needing to go to the, the, sort of the impossible ask of growing these growing teams of people with special skills and, and who aren't available anyways, or they're extremely expensive. So we definitely see ourselves as, as a, as a sort of leaning into the API as, as part of the answer and creating opportunities for automation. >>Yeah. So I got one more kind of customer role play here. I says, I love this. This is a great conversation. You know, there's always the, the person in the room, Carl, hold on, boss. This is gonna complicate everything on the network layer, application changes. There's a lot of risks here. I'm nervous. What's your, how do you guys handle that objection that comes up all the time. You know, the, the person that's always blocking deals like, oh, it's risky implementing no name or this approach. How do you, how do you address the frictionless nature of developers? Wanna try stuff now they wanna get it in and they wanna try things. How do you answer the quote, complication or risk to network and application changes? >>Sure. Two, two really specific answers. The, the first is, is for the developers. We wanna put a API security in their hands because when they can, when they can test and model the security risks on their APIs, while they're developing, like in their IDE and in their code repos, they can iterate through security fixes and bugs like lightning fast. And they, and developers Le really appreciate that. They appreciate having the instant feedback loop within their workspace, within their workbench. So developers love being able to self-service security. And we want to empower developers to, to do that. Self-service rather than tossing code over the fence and waiting two weeks for the security team to test it, then tossing it back with a list of bugs and defects that annoys everybody. It's an inefficient. So >>For the record, just for the record, you guys are self-service to the developers. >>Yeah. Self-service to the developers. And that's really by customer sort of configuration choices. There are configuration choices that have, for example, the security team, establishing policy, establishing boundaries for testing activities that allow the developers to test source code iterate through, you know, defect, fixes, things like that. And then perhaps you establish like a firm control gate that says that, you know, vulnerabilities of, of medium and above are a, have to be remediated prior to that code committing to the next gate. That's the type of control that the security policy owner can can apply, but yes, the developers can self-service service and the, and the security team can set the threshold by which the, the, the, the source code moves through the SDLC. Everybody will. Yep. Exactly. And, and, but we're, we have to, we have to practice that too, because that's a, that's a new way of, of, of the security team and the developers interacting. >>So we, we, we, we have to have patterns that that teams can then adopt procedurally because we aren't, we aren't yet accustomed to having a lot of procedures that work that way. So yeah, we, we have templates, we've got professional services that we want to help those teams get that, that equation, right? Because it it's a, it's a truly win-win situation when you can really stick the landing on getting the developers, the self-service options with the security team, having the confidence level that the controls are employed. And then on, on the network side, by the way, I, I too am mortified of breaking infrastructure and, and which is exactly why, you know, what, what we do architecturally out of band is, is really a, a game changer because there are technologies we can put in, in line, there are disruptors and operational risks that we can incur when we are, where we utilizing a technology that, that can break things, can break business, critical traffic. >>So what we do is we lean into the, the, the sort of the network nodes and the, and the hosts that the organization already has identifying those APIs, creating the behavioral models that really identify misuse in progress, and then automate, blocking, but doing that out of, out of band, that's really important. That's how I feel about our infrastructure. I, I don't want sort of unintended disruption. I want, I want to utilize a platform that's out of band that I can use. That's much more lightweight than, you know, putting another box in, in the network line. Yeah, >>What's interesting is what you're talking about is kind of the new school of thought. And the script has flipped. The old school was solve complexity with more complexity, get in the way, inject some measurements, software agents on the network, get in the way and the developer, Hey, here's a new tool. We agreed in a, in a vacuum, go do this. I think now more than ever, developers are setting the agenda on, on, on the tooling, if it's, and it has to be self-service at our super cloud event that was validated across the board. That if it's self-service, it's gotta be self-service for the developer. Otherwise they won't use it pretty much. >>Oh, well, I couldn't agree more. And the other part too, is like, no matter what business we're in the security business is, is yeah, it has to honor like the, the, the business need for innovation. We have to honor the business need for, for, for speed. And we have to do our best to, to, to empower the, the sort of the strategy and empower the intent that the developers are, are delivering on. And yes, we need to be, we need to be seeking every opportunity to, to lift that developer up and, and give them the tools sort of in the moment we wanna wrap the developer in armor, not wake them down with an anchor. And that's the, that's the thing that we, we want to keep striving towards is, is making that possible for the security team. >>So you guys are very relevant right now. APIs are the favorite environment for hackers was seeing that with breaches and in the headlines every day, I love this comprehensive approach, developer focused op security team enablement, operationally relevant to all, all, all parties. I have to ask you, how do you answer and, and talk about the competition, cuz with the rise of this trend, a lot of more people entering this market, how should a customer decide between no name and everyone else pitch in API security? What's the, is there nuances? Is there differences? How do you compare what's the differentiation? >>Yeah, I think, you know, the, the, the first thing to mention is that, you know, companies that are in the space of API security, we, we have a lot more in common. We probably have differences cause we're focused on the same problems, but there's, there's really two changes that we've made bringing to market an API platform. Number one is to look full lifecycle. So it used to be that you could buy, you know, DAST and SAS software testing tools, no name has API testing in, so, you know, for source code and for pipeline integrations along with then the runtime and posture management, which is really the production network. And so we really do think that we span east west a much broader set of controls for the API. And then the second characteristic is, is architectural fit. Particularly in a runtime production environment, you have to have a solution that does, does not create significant disruptions. >>It doesn't require agent deployment that can maximize the, the, the infrastructure that an organization already has. So we think our, you know, a big advantage for us in, in the production environment is that we can, we can adapt to the contour of the customer. We don't have to have the customer adapt to the contour of our architecture. So that flexibility really serves well, particularly with complex organizations, global organizations or those that have on, you know, data centers and, and, and public cloud and, and multiple varieties. So our ability to sort of adapt to a customer's architecture really makes us sort of like a universal tool for organizations. And we think that's really, you know, bears out in the, in the customers, in the large organizations and enterprises that have adapted us because we can adapt really any condition. >>Yeah. And that's great alignment too, from an execution consumption standpoint, it's gotta be fast with a developer. You gotta be frictionless as much as possible. Good stuff there. I have to ask you Carl, as, as you are a CISO chief information security officer, you know, your peers are out there. They're they're, they got, man there's so much going on around them. They gotta manage the current, protect the future and architect, the next level infrastructure for security. What do you, what do you see out there as a CSO with your peers in the marketplace? You know, practitioners, you know, evaluating companies, evaluating technologies, managing the threat landscape, unlimited surface area, evolving with the edge coming online, what's on their mind. How do you see it? What's your, what's your view there? What's your vision if you were, if you were in the hot seat in a big organization, I mean, obviously you're got a hot seat there with no name, but you're also, you know, you're seeing both sides of the coin at no name, you know, the CISO. So are they the frog and boiling water right now? Or like, like what's going on in their world right now? How would you describe the state of, of the CISO in cyber security? >>Yeah, there's, there's, there's two kind of tactical themes. I think almost every CISO shares the, the, the, the, the first tactical theme is, is I as a CISO. I probably know there's a technology out there to solve a little bit of every problem possible. Like, that's you objectively true. But what I don't wanna do is I don't wanna buy 75 technologies when I could buy 20 platforms or 12 that could solve that problem set. So the first thing I wanna do is as I, I want to communicate what we do from the perspective of, of like a single platform that does multiple things from source code testing, to posture and configuration to runtime defense, because I, a CISO's sensibilities is, is, is, is challenged by having 15 technologies. I really just want a couple to manage because it's complexity that we're managing when we're managing all these technologies. >>Even if something works for a point problem set, I, I don't want another technology to implement and manage. That's, that's just throwing money. Oftentimes at, at suboptimal, you know, we're not getting the results when we just throw tools at a problem. So the, that that platform concept is I think really appealing cuz every CSO is looking to consider, how do I reduce the number of technologies that I have? The second thing is every organization faces the challenge of talent. So what are, what are my options for talent, for mitigating? What is sort of, I, I can't hire enough qualified people at a remotely reasonable price to staff, what I'd like to. So I have to pursue both the utilizing third parties who have expertise in professional services that I can deploy to, to, to, to solve my problems, but also then to employing automation. So, you know, the, a great example would be if I have a team that has a, you know, a five person application security team, and now next year, my applications security or my, my applications team is gonna develop three times the number of, of applications and APIs. >>I can't scale my team by a factor of three, just to meet that demand. I have to pursue automation opportunities. And so we really want to measure the, the, the successes that we can achieve with automation so that a CISO can look at us as, as an answer to complexity rather than as a source of new complexity, because it is true that we're overwhelmed with the options at our disposal. Most of those options create more complexity than they solve for. And, and, you know, I pursue that in, in my practice, which is to, is to figure out how to sort of limit the complexity of what is already very complicated, you know, role and protecting an organization. >>Got it. And when you, when, when the CSO says Carl, what's in it for me with no name, what's the answer, what's the bumper bumper sticker. >>It, it's reducing complexity. It's making a very sophisticated problem. Set, simple to solve for APIs are a, are a class of assets that there's an answer for that answer includes automation and includes professional services. And we can, we can achieve a high degree of sophistication relatively speaking with a low amount of effort. When we look across our security team, this is a, this is a solvable problem space and, and we can do so pretty efficiently. >>Awesome. Well call, thank you so much for showcasing no name. And the last minute we have here, give a quick plug for the company, give a little stats, some factoids that people might be interested in. How big is the company? What are you guys doing enthusiastic about the solution? Share some, yep. Give the plug. >>Sure. We're, we're, we're a company of just about 300 employees now all across the globe, Asia Pacific, north America, Europe, and the middle east, you know, tremendous success with the release of our, of our software testing module, which we call active testing. We have such a variety of ways also to, to sort of test and take Nona for a test drive from sandboxes to POVs and, and some really amazing opportunities to, to show and tell and have the organizations diagnose quickly where, where they are. And so we, we love to, we love to, to, to show off the platform and, and let people take it for a test drive. So, you know, no name, security.com and any, anywhere in the world, you are, we can, we can deploy a, a, a sales engineer who can help show you the platform and, and show you all the things that, that we can, we can offer for the organization. >>Carl, great insight. Thank you again for sharing the stats and talk about the industry and really showcasing some of the key things you guys are doing in the industry for customers. We really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks John. Appreciate it. >>Okay. That's the, this is the ADBU startup showcase. John fur, your host season two, episode four of this ongoing series covering the exciting new growing startups from the AWS ecosystem in cybersecurity. Thanks for watching.

(electronica music) >> Hello everybody. This is Dave Volante and we are covering HPE's big GreenLake announcements. We've got wall-to-wall coverage, a ton of content. We've been watching GreenLake since the beginning. And of one of the things we said early on was let's watch and see how frequently, what the cadence of innovations that HPE brings to the market. Because that's what a cloud company does. So, we're here to welcome you. Keith White is here as the Senior Vice President General Manager of GreenLake cloud services. He runs the commercial business. Keith, thanks for coming on. Help me kick off. >> Thanks for having me. It's awesome to be here. >> So you guys got some momentum orders, 40% growth a year to year on year. You got a lot of momentum, customer growth. >> Yeah, it's fantastic. It's 46%. >> Kyle, thank you for that clarification. And in 46. Big different from 40 to 46. >> No, I think what we're seeing is we're seeing the momentum happen in the marketplace, right? We have a scenario where we're bringing the cloud experience to the customer on their premises. They get to have it automated. Self-serve, easy to consume. They pay for what they use. They can have it in their data center. They can have it at the edge. They can have it at the colo, and, we can manage it all for them. And so they're really getting that true cloud experience and we're seeing it manifest itself in a variety of different customer scenarios. You know, we talked about at Discover, a lot of work that we're doing on the hybrid cloud side of the house, and a lot of work that we're doing on the edge side of things with our partners. But you know, it's exciting to see the explosion of data and how now we're providing this data capability for our customers. >> What are the big trends you're hearing from customers? And how is that informing what you're doing with Green? I mean, I feel like in a lot of ways, Keith, what happened last year, you guys were, were in a better position maybe than most. But what are you hearing and how is that informing your go forward? >> Yeah, I think it's really three things with customers, right? First off, Hey, we're trying to accelerate our digital transformation and it's all becoming about the data. So help us monetize the data, help us protect that data. Help us analyze it to make decisions. And so, you know, number one, it's all about data. Number two is wow, this pandemic, you know, we need to look for cost savings. So, we still need to move our business forward. We've got to accelerate our business, but help me find some cost savings with respect to what I can do. And third, what we're hearing is, hey, we're in a situation, where there's a lot of different capabilities happening with our workforce. They're working from home. They're working hybrid. Help us make sure that we can stay connected to those folks, but also in a secure way, making sure that they have all the tools and resources they need. So those are sort of three of the big themes that we're seeing that GreenLake really helps manifest itself, with the data we're doing now. With all the hybrid cloud capabilities. With the cost savings that we get with respect to our platform, as well as with solutions such as VDI or workforce enablements that we've, we create from a solution standpoint. . >> So, what's the customer reaction, I mean, I mean, everybody now, who's has a big on-premise state, has an as a service capability. A customer saying, oh yeah, oh yeah, how do you make it not me too? In the customer conversations? >> Yeah. I think it turns into, you know, you have to bring the holistic solution to the customer. So yes, there's technology there and we're hearing from, you know, some of the competitors out there. Yeah, we're doing as a service as well, but maybe it's a little bit of storage here. Maybe it's a little bit of networking there. Customers need that end to end solution. And so as you've seen us announce over time, we've got the building blocks, of course, compute storage and networking, but everything runs in a virtual machine. Everything runs in a container or everything runs on the bare metal itself. And that package that we've created for customers means that they can do whatever solution, or whatever workload they want So, if you're a hospital and you're running Epic for your electronic medical records, you can go that route. If you're upgrading SAP and you're using virtual machines at a very large scale, you can use this, use a GreenLake for that as well. So, as you go down the list, there's just so many opportunities with respect to bring those solutions to our customers. And then you bring in our point-next capabilities to support that. You bring in our advisory and professional services, along with our ecosystem to help enable that. You bring in our HPE financial services to help fund that digital transformation. And you've got the complete package. And that's why customers are saying, hey, you guys are now partners of us. You're not just a hardware provider, you're a partner you're helping us solve our business problems and helping us accelerate our business. >> So what should people expect today? You guys got some announcements. What should people look for? >> Well, I think this is, as we've talked about, you know, now we're sort of providing much more capabilities around the data side of the house. Because data is so such, it's the gold, if you will, of a customer's environment. So first off we want to do analytics. So we want an open platform that provides really a unified set of analytics capabilities. And this is where we have a real strong, sweet spot with respect to some of the, the software that we've built around Esperal. But also with the hardware capabilities. As you know, we have all the way up to the Cray supercomputers that, that are doing all of the analytics for whether this or, or financial data that. So, I think that's one of the key things. The second is you got to protect that data. And, and so if it's going to be on prem, I want to know that it's protected and secured. So how do I back it up? How do I have a disaster recovery plan? How do I watch out for ransomware attacks, as well? So we're providing some capabilities there. And then I'd say, lastly, because of all the experience we have with our customers now implementing these hybrid solutions, they're saying, hey, help me with this edge to cloud framework and how do I go and implement that on my own? And so we've taken all the experience and we've bucketed that into our edge to cloud adoption framework to provide that capability for our customers. So we, you know, we're really excited about, again, talking about solutions, talking about accelerating your business, not just talking about technology. >> I said up the top, Keith, that one of the ways I was evaluating you as the pace and the cadence of the innovations. And, and is that, is that fair? How do you guys think about that internally? Are you, you know, you're pushing yourself to go faster, I'm sure you are, but what's that conversation like? >> I think it's a great question because in essence, we're now pivoting the company holistically to being a cloud services and a software company. And that's really exciting and we're seeing that happen internally. But this pace of innovation is really built on what customers are asking us for us. So now that we've grown over 1200 customers worldwide. You know, over $5 billion of total contract value. You know, signing some, some large deals in a variety of solutions and workloads and verticals, et cetera. What we're now seeing is, hey, this is what we need. Help me with my internal IT out to my business groups. Help me with my edge strategy as I build the factory of the future, or, you know, help me with my data and analytics that I'm trying to accomplish for my, you know, diagnosis of, of x-rays and, and capabilities such as Carestream, if you will. So it's, it's exciting to see them come to us and say, this is the capabilities that we're requiring, and we've got our foot on the gas to provide that innovation. And we're miles ahead of the competition. >> All right, we've got an exciting day ahead. We got all kinds of technology discussions, solution discussions. We got, we got, we're going to hear from the analyst community. Really bringing you the, the full package of announcements here. Keith, thanks for helping me set this up. >> Always. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. >> I look forward today. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there. Tons of content coming your way. You're watching The Cubes coverage of HP's big GreenLake announcement. Right back. (electronica music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. The digital version. I'm Lisa Martin and I'm here with Todd Cary Thomas, the global head of the A. W s business group at Congressman Todd. It's great to have you on the program. >>Thanks. Great to be here. >>Unfortunately, we're not all cramped together in a massive space in Las Vegas, but it's great that we still get to come together virtually so. I want to just give our audience kind of an update on the Cognizant AWS strategic partnership. What's going on there? >>Sure. So a lot of exciting things. I mean, it's been a tough year, obviously, for for all of us in 2020. But one of the bright spots One of the exciting things for us is cognizant has been the announcement of the best business group and really a strategic relationship with AWS. It's just a great statement to the market that we're taking cloud seriously. We're taking a W s seriously, and it really is a core component of our go to market. It's a core component of how our customers right now are looking at what their plans are post pandemic, right? And how we survive 2020. If you look at the just the explosion of cloud, we all understand how critical now cloud computing is to all businesses, regardless of vertical, regardless of industry and what you're trying to accomplish. So for us it was it was really about putting a stake in the ground and saying, A W S is going to be a critical critical player for us and our go to market for 2020 and obviously beyond >>and beyond. I think we're all looking forward to that beyond talk to me a little bit about the core purpose, the mission and how you're going, how customers are reacting to this news about the strategic shift. >>Well, there's a couple of tracks. I mean, you know, if your ah large company looking at cloud, you're going down, the cost take out right, we're gonna go, and we're gonna be more efficient or or we're gonna go down the innovation track and for us, we really want to be able to serve our customers running both of those tracks in parallel. And so the role of the business group is to really be an innovation engine is to get into those those those deep, detailed layers of where clients are going through planning and assessment and trying to figure out how they want to leverage AWS. And on the other side, you know, there's a lot of legacy applications and appliances out that environments. And so how can the AWS business group that cognizant go in and help with that cost? Take out go accelerate the move from legacy applications and on Prem to Cloud. And so for us, it is much about the technology as it is about the outcome and is exactly how we're accomplishing gotten. So what I mean by that is that really being more creative, being an active player, an active investor and bringing A W. S and early in the solution ING cycle figuring out how we can drive ultimately the outcome for the customer? Because I think AWS will tell you as we we will tell you it's really not about technology. It's not about cognizant. It's not about a W s. It's about clients figuring out what they want how to get it and making sure that AWS and Cognizant can deliver that outcome together. >>It is all about outcomes, especially in these times when when businesses have pivoted multiple times in the last nine months probably will continue to do so and need toe have not just the right technology foundation, the right partners and the right culture to be able to get on board and continue to pivot. Talk to me, though, um, talked about, have your conversations within customer organizations change. Like knowing how much acceleration we're seeing of digital transformation. Is this a board level C suite conversation? Is that where you're starting? What's kind of that conversation like these days? >>Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's happening at all levels. What one of the main things that's happened about Cloud is that it's impacted literally every level of an organization. And and now, most of the time, though, we're seeing conversations enter at the business level. So whether that's a a new product to bring the market, or maybe it's cleaning up critical systems, maybe like policy administration or supply chain systems. Whatever the outcome in the business problem that they're trying to solve. That's really where the conversation starts. And and that really starts at the the See really see Exelon C suite all the way down to even the programming and application level. Those types of groups of really looking at A. W S and Cognizant has an enabler to solve those kinds of business issues, and and it's really driven out of really 2020. So obviously we exposed a lot of stuff with clients and and worker productivity with security, remote access to information. It's been a really tough year, but it's also exposed a lot of gaps and a lot of deficiencies. And those gaps and deficiencies didn't care if that was that the sea level or that was at a programming level or regional level or vertical. It just exposed everything. And so, and that's where we saw cloud consumption go up. But most companies weren't ready for that. They weren't prepared and were optimized and ready to take on that kind of kind of cloud consumption, you know, and and the overarching theme here of customer experience, employee experience, you know, how do we fix all those problems and also deliver really a limitless bandwidth experience to that individual user and ensure that while we're solving outcome, we're also gaining traction, saying with customer acquisitions or were quickly deploying. Applications were doing something good at every turn when we talk about eight of us >>like that. And as I was thinking and speaking of doing something good, that what you were talking about with the new business group, opportunities that come out of, you know, they always say stuff for these mother of invention. But you saw those gaps and they were exposed by this particular time. But it's just an opportunity to be able to identify them, help them and help customers with this light switch moment of especially those that were kind of caught off guard. Oh my gosh, we can't operate. We can't get to our data centers. We've gotta be able to have a remote workforce and get accessibility. How did you help them from that cultural perspective of that light switch moment of adopting cloud? Knowing that it's maybe in the beginning was a survival mechanism. >>Sure, there's been a couple of light switch moments. I mean, one of them is certainly you hit on. It is people in process. You know, Cloud is certainly about technology, but the people in process the organizational change management, the impact that cloud hands on a development community on a company as a whole, the acceleration the the pace at which you have to change and be flexible and agile to embrace a cloud. Native architectures is unlike most companies have ever done before, and so it's a failed strategy to just simply focus on the tech. You have to look a change. Management people and culture and systems. And how these how these everything works together in unison. And the other light switch moment has been how hard cloud is. You know, we saw early adoption. I mean, we we jumped out of the gate and that 1st 10 2030% of workloads just flew to the cloud. This was simple. Everyone was giving some amazing public statements of of how much we were gonna embrace Cloud. But what's happened is that we've got to the hard stuff like the on Prem, the legacy, the work of the stuff that just is stuck. It doesn't want to move, and it really requires some deep dive systems analysis, business analysis cost analysis to trying to figure out you know what services and data and everything is connected. And how do we disconnect that move to the Kyle transform that optimize it, but then also manage the company in between? Because a lot of companies now, in fact, almost 90% of CXS will tell you they've had to embrace the hybrid architecture for this reason. So now how do we help our clients manage applications in different environments, moving a different paces and make sure that they were transformed and optimizing and getting to a digital state as fast as possible? And so there's a lot. There's a lot to unpack there, but that's really the purpose of the AWS business group is to focus on all of these things all at the same time being able to drive that outcome we talked about earlier, but also making sure that we're keeping you know, our clients lights on right. We're keeping the boat afloat, that they can be successful in a very complex environment, very challenging environment, but then also, from a technology standpoint, >>something that that we talked about a number of times in terms of the people in the processes and the culture. I'm curious. Are you having conversations with customers or helping them kind of bring? As you said, it's not. This is not just about the technology knowing the business drivers air leaving this are you? Are you helping customers have those conversations between business units and the I t folks to really understand? This is what we've done so far. This This is the complexity that we have, but we've got to get over here is quickly as possible. And we've gotta bring these two cultures together, >>right? Yeah, we talked about a little bit early. It's there's the conductivity problem that that companies have because there's again there's that tech track and then there's people tracks and you've got to be able to blend those two. And that really, when you when you boil down the role of the age of this business group, within cognizant and within our client environments, that's really what we're working on is how do we pull in all of these disparate pieces and I like Thio. You wanna grab the front seat when you're a teenager, everybody's driving called shotgun. Well, we want to bring our clients along in that shotgun position, right? Be able to see how an enterprise class deployment works, how apt transformation and modernization works. Ah, lot of our clients are very open and transparent. So, like I don't really know how all of this is going to work. I'd really love to see. I would love to see this in motion. And so for us, we're very transparent of these types of engagements. This is not a cognizant showing up and delivering in a output or an outcome for a customer. It's making our clients better. It's making them mawr aggressive and more interested in more excited about cloud and transformation. Because, you know, the first couple of steps like we talked about a cloud typically is easy. It gets more complex. But as we as we saw for these complexities, we open up new pockets of data and new applications and new groups and regions and things that could move. And as soon as we start to move some of those heavier pieces, new opportunities absolutely explode. And and that's really what we want to do is take that message to our clients internally, evangelized the opportunity they have with AWS to take advantage of that and really challenge the mindset through innovation. You know, through new products, new go to market initiatives. What do they want to accomplish? Because, really, we're in a time that's very rare. Assed faras. I've I've been technology a long time. This is the first time that I can remember that the client had come to us and come to a W s ask for an outcome, ask for something and we could deliver it. And it's not gonna be a science project. We can actually commit to it, >>not not rocket science. So for those customers who would be able shotgun and gotten in the front with you guys put are some of the best practices that you've seen that you'd recommend our audience, pay attention to >>definitely assess. You see a lot of companies that they marked the finish line, and I always tell customers that were there is no finish line of digital. There is no finish line in cloud, and they've pretty much marked it. And this is what success looks like. I think success in cloud is absolutely a journey. It's a work in progress, always, and so you need to assess and look at where you want to be. Not in six months, not in 18 months. Where do you wanna be next month? Well, what's what are your immediate plans on immediate business pressures? Things that you need to solve right now, And that's what we focus on. But we we need to understand the environment. We need to understand the applications and work and what's in play and and really get a true assessment of the estate. And then we blend that with business outcomes, not technical, not a bunch of letters in acronyms and things like that. We don't wanna convoluted that, really. The effort is to try to figure out what you want to accomplish. And then, from an advisory standpoint, really put those hooks in and build a solid plan. And then we can execute. Now, whether we we execute that plan, it 100% pace or a 30% or 40% pace, it's about having that plan and at least the right direction, but a direction that's quickly attainable because, as we've seen, anything can happen. >>You're not kidding. We haven't seen that anything can happen. So as we look into going into calendar year 2021 hoping for a lot of great things. What are some of the key areas that cognizance a W s business group is gonna be focusing your investments >>on? Well, what we've seen from A clients and we hear them loud and players thio here from them about industry and vertical specific solutions. And so we are in in the emotions right now across the globe and my team building out vertical specific and I p based offerings on AWS things around S a P. Things about Amazon connect things that that really impacted clients business because it is hard. I mean, it's it just to be in total transparency. As a global systems integrator, it's hard to rise above a lot of noise And what? How you rise above that is really to be unique on AWS. And so, from a client standpoint, you know, one of the things they're going to get different from cognizant from saying some of our larger competitors and I will tell you one of the things obviously is complete commitment we have in a W s business group that gets up in the morning. Is Onley concerned about our client success in a W s. And so some of the things that we're gonna be born out of that direction are these vertical specific solutions or in in development of pipe. We've had amazing run with AWS and Cloud. I mean, we have over 600 projects deployed over almost 10,000 certified, uh, 10,000 certified. Uh, resource is on DSO for us. Super excited to bring that talent to market along with solutions. But again, it's not about what we have. It's really about what our clients need. >>But it's great advice that you're telling, You know, your clients look short term because we've got to be able to get just to hear and to hear. It's not necessarily about having this this 2020 vision. I don't think anybody wants that anymore about what's gonna happen in 12 months or 18 months. It's we've gotta be able t o get businesses to pivot quickly and leverage the technology to fuel those business outcomes. As you said in kind of shorter and faster time increments, because, as we all know, 2021 calendar changes and we're probably still going to be in quite a pickle, I guess for ah time longer. But I also from what you've said, it seems like you you're uncovering so many opportunities that what comes and kindle you do with a W s what you can deliver for businesses and how you can help the cultural shift so that these businesses thrive going forward, get out of that survival mode and actually be able to take advantage of those all those data sources that you talked about to deliver new products and new services, maybe even get into new markets. >>Yeah, most definitely. It is about time to market. And in the one of the things that we've seen to, his clients are getting away from this modernization first, then migration. And and that was really a big thing. When we started down this cloud journey, we saw the market reacted. Well, let me get my house in order. Let me start modernizing. Let me clean up some service layers and we saw some anti patterns. Let me let me figure all that out, and then I'm gonna go to cloud. And we've seen really the direct opposite of that, especially with cove it and during a pandemic, is Okay. How fast can I get these systems and data to the cloud? Alright. And then we'll worry about transformation. And so for us we've pivoted. I think very well is cognizant over overall is a company and the specific, innovative this business group to really maintain multiple work streams that that run on Prem right to be ableto fix and attack those workloads and make that on prime environment efficient. But move those applications while we're doing that. Move those a w s and then concurrently build a transformation plan around those applications and things that are now in the cloud around NWS. >>Excellent title. You've been busy, so I'm not let you get back to work. But great stuff that you guys are working on together with AWS, we look forward to seeing what's to come. >>Thank you, Lisa >>for Todd Kerry. Find Lisa Martin and you're watching the Cube

>> Hi, I'm Kyle Rourke, VP of Platform Strategy here at Snowflake. And I could not be more excited to be here today with Margaret Sherman, who is the Head of Data Strategy for Sonos. Now, all throughout the day-to-day we've been hearing from lots of customers from all over the world and hearing about their journeys and how they've transformed their business by embracing the data cloud. And of course, this next story is one I am personally very excited about because I'm a huge Sonos customer. And I'm sure many of you are as well. >> Thanks Kyle. As you mentioned, I'm the Head of Data Strategy at Sonos. And what that means is that I set the data priorities for the company, as well as guide the company on where to invest now and in the future, to get the most out of our data resources. I've spent about four years at Sonos. Previously I was the head of product data and worked a lot with setting up Snowflake and the IoT data. And I've been in technology for 20 years and the last 10 years I've spent in data analytics and machine learning. >> That's very cool. Now, how does your company view data in general? How do you guys... How does your team fit in, in the overall strategy of how Sonos leverages data? >> Yeah. So Sonos is a sound experience company and we really pioneered multi-room wireless audio. And we made that experience amazing and truly changed how people listen. And our mission is to inspire the world to listen better. And everything that we do is in service to that. And data is a part of that. So we really believe that data is fundamental to helping us achieve our mission. Data helps us build a better business, build better products and ultimately we think it helps us make our customers happier. >> Now, before Snowflake, maybe let's go back in time. You've been at Sonos for the last four years. Maybe go back in time a little bit for the time pre Snowflake. What were some of your challenges that you guys faced before you started with us? >> Yeah, it was really challenging. So I was actually leading the product data team at the time and we use Snowflake primarily for our IoT data. And so we're collecting tons of data, but we're really struggling to leverage it. Essentially what would happen is, if we wanted to answer a single question about what was happening with the customer experience, we would have to have data engineers go and write some code, spin up clusters. This could take weeks just to extract the data and get it into a shape where analysts and scientists could go and work with it. And so we really went from being in a place where it was taking weeks just to answer a single question, to now we can do things in hours. So it really changed things for us. >> Wow. And so the benefits of obviously being able to go act on information very, very quickly. What are some of the other benefits that's driven for you guys? >> I mean, our data people love it, obviously, because if you think about the process of data science, it's very iterative. So you're going to ask a question, you're going to go and investigate your data. You're going to do some data processing, you're going to do some visualizations and then you're going to come up with more questions. You're going to want to dig in. You're going to want to pull more data and you're going to want to join it together, do different cuts and pivots. And before that was just off the table, because as you can imagine, if every time you have to go weeks to go do that, it's just impossible. Whereas now, our data scientists can churn through these problems very quickly. And the data engineers love it because they're not sitting around waiting for jobs to finish for forever. They are able to get through their code faster. And as one of my engineers likes to say, she was telling me, she said, "Snowflake, she's a beast." (Kyle and Margaret laughing) It's like crunching through the data. >> You mentioned IoT. And I think that's obviously a very challenging space for a lot of customers and there's a lot of interest in it. Maybe give me some more thoughts on how much data are you guys are bringing in? Is it small, large? Has the volume been something that you could handle with Snowflake? >> Yeah, I mean, that was why we chose Snowflake. So prior to having Snowflake, we were really struggling with the vol... I mean, we've very large volumes of data, as you can imagine from an IoT device because we're collecting from over 10 million homes across the world. So it's quite a bit of data. And all of that doesn't fit in a traditional sort of data warehouse. We were trying to push some of it into SQL and we were essentially taking just a handful of our telemetry events. And we were boiling them down to daily and weekly aggregates. And even trying to push that into SQL was just too much for it to handle. And with Snowflake, we had processing jobs that were timing out in SQL server after running for hours and hours, and then Snowflake could just crunch through it in a few minutes. So-- >> Kyle: Wow. >> It was, yeah. I mean, I literally almost fell off my chair. (Margaret laughs) They showed me the comparison numbers. >> Well, so now... So it's been a good experience for you, but let's talk about your customers. And I think, I can say as a customer myself, I've always had a great experience with Sonos, it's probably why I keep buying more and more and more of them. But talk to me about how has data really helped you guys drive that customer experience in some very tangible ways? >> As a Sonos customer, we really hope that you enjoy the great sound and freedom of choice and ease of use that the product brings. But obviously behind all of that, behind that really easy experience, it's very complex. You've got a lot going on, when you're interacting with your Sonos system. So, it's not just a single piece of hardware, you've got a mobile device potentially that you're using to control it, you have third-party voice services, you have music service providers, wifi, network traffic, all of these things are going on. So for us to really make sure that we're creating an amazing experience cause we're super customer obsessed. >> So Margaret, one of the things that I've always experienced as a customer of Sonos, is that, frankly for me it just always works. And that's one of the best parts of the customer experience. Whether I'm pulling up Spotify on my phone to go listen to it, or whether I'm plugging in a soundbar into the TV, everything seems to just work. So maybe just walk me through why it's been such a good experience maybe for me. >> Yeah. So some of the kind of at a high level, an example of what we do is we use Snowflake to... And because of the power of Snowflake, we're able to bring together different kinds of telemetry about what's happening in our products and our services. And then we can try to pinpoint reliability issues and determine what's happening, like what's causing them. That was kind of the first thing that we attacked with Snowflake, was really to go in and dig in and join some different events together and start slicing and dicing and looking for what are the main problems that we're seeing and what are the fixes to them. And the product team was able to find some reliability issues that they were able to fix. And they shipped the fixes and we were able to significantly reduce the rate at which some of these errors were occurring. >> Just by having all the data in one place and being able to go actually act on it quickly and of course in a cost effective manner, it really did let you guys really pinpoint any issue when it did occur and go and go support it, fixed quickly. >> Yeah. I mean, we were able to find things that we didn't even know were happening because we could really drill into the data. >> So it wasn't just having one place, it was also just being able to go dig into a different level of fidelity that you didn't have before? >> I mean, you should see some of the tableau dashboards that we've put on top of Snowflake. So, it's pretty impressive. (laughs) >> That's awesome. That's awesome. So what really set it apart? I mean you've been in the business, you're an expert in this business and there's a lot of options out there. What really set apart Snowflake from everything else at the time, and even now in your opinion? >> Just like you said about Sonos, it just works. (Kyle and Margaret laughing) We were able to stand it up really easily. We were able to load data into it really easily. It's pretty flexible in terms of what you can do. So for example, we use the variant column quite a bit, and that allows us to take kind of this semi-structured data and throw it in there and have an index. And then we can work with it as we want to. We don't have to have like a real complex data pipeline upstream before we throw things into Snowflake. If we don't want to, or we can, we really like, obviously I mentioned the speed. I keep mentioning that cause it's really powerful and it holds a ton of data. But even better is the cost. So we're pushing tons of data into Snowflake and we're not having to pay that much for that cost. We're basically paying S3 costs. But then you pay for what you use. So you're just paying for your processing costs. And even that is pretty easy to optimize. And you guys provide tools for that and support. I mean, you've helped me save thousands dollars a month this year (laughs) and it's really great. >> What's the plan for the future? Where do you see Sonos and Snowflake and the data cloud? Where do you see all that intersecting in the future? >> Yeah, I mean we really want Snowflake to be kind of the center of our data platform and bring all of our data together. We want to live the data dream. (Kyle and Margaret laughing) (indistinct) our data together and do all sorts of cool analysis. So we have a bunch of different projects that we want to be able to do. For example, one thing that we're looking at doing is bringing together our product telemetry data and our customer support data so that we can try to find patterns in terms of the types of errors or sequence of events that happen before somebody calls us, so that we can potentially intervene and fix the problem before somebody even has to reach out to our care team. And then another place that we're looking at using Snowflake is connecting it to salesforce. So for people who are interested in hearing from us, we could do things like when you set up a new product, we can send you information about how to use that product, or if there's new features available for the product that you have, we could send you information about that. And with Snowflake as our backend, it really helps us be able to tailor the customer experience. >> So Margaret, you've talked a lot about Snowflake and using Snowflake and it just works. I mean, you guys are running a very, very large implementation of Snowflake like using IoT data coming from, as you mentioned, millions and millions of devices. What's been the overall lift to the organization just to go manage the whole thing and keep it going and keep it up and running? >> It almost runs itself. (Margaret laughing) I'm almost surprised because we obviously use a lot of different third party tools and most of them require quite a bit of intervention on a regular basis. I would say Snowflake, it stays up and running and you have great tools for managing the whole system. And it's easy to see what's happening, it's easy to see when different clusters are spinning up and spinning down, we have tableau dashboards that we use to monitor all of our usage. And you guys provide all the data for that to make that really easy. So that's really great. Can't say it enough, without Snowflake. (laughs) >> So Margaret, thank you so much. It was great hearing your story about Sonos and how you leverage data cloud. So again, thank you for being a customer. And thank you again for being here today. >> Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering AWS executive. Something brought to you by extension. >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of the ex Censure Executive Summit here in AWS. Reinvent I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have three guests for this segment. We have Fang Deng. She is the big data and an Advanced Analytics program. Lead analytic Seo hee at Novartis. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. We have low eq zero. He is Novartis head of Analytic Seo Hee. Thanks so much. Look, and Vika sinned. Wan Hee hee is applied intelligence delivery lead at Accenture. Thank you so much. Thank you. So I want to start with you. Look, no. Novartis, of course, is a household name. It's one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world. But that left you to just walk our viewers a little bit through your business and sort of the pain points you were looking to solve with this journey Thio to the cloud >>you think you ever care? So I think if I if we look at the company, I think Wayne realized that it is more and more difficult to bring new trucks to market, so it takes about 12 years and on $1.2 billion to find a new trick. So at the same time, we see that there's more and more patient that need access to medicines. So in the last two years, I think we tried toe clear the new strategy where we're trying to re imagine medicine for user's data and technology. So in 2018 we've recruited a new studio that's came and I tried to build a digital ambition which is around fabulous, which is the innovation, the operation and the engagement on the innovation. What we're trying to do is to find new compound, will application off existing compounds into our business, make sure that I think patients can get access to drugs much faster and earlier on in the operation. We are trying to optimize the backbone off day to day processes, beat in the manufacturing or in the supply chain, or in the commercialization to ensure that the patient also get access to that much faster in the engagement. We're trying to healthy a cheapie and the players and then the and the patients to better understand the tracks reproduce as well as on the medication they need to have to receive treatment. So if you look at these three pillars, the cloud strategy is an essential portion of it. Because in all of its processes we have a lot of data and full cloud. I think we can make use off his data to help to innovate, open, right and engage. >>So as you as you said, it's really about reimagining medicine. I mean, from the drug discovery process to how it's helping patients live, live longer, healthier lives. Thanks. So talk about the vision for the Formula One platform. >>Yeah, aside, like a mission before we trying to re imagine our products for the patient. And we're trying to use more the more data history data and also the public data try to support our products. And the Formula One is our future enterprise data and the next perform for our new artists. So our objective is trying to love you all the new technology and also trying to consolidate over data in our Macleod and build up this platform for the whole notice Users support our business, do better products full patient. >>So when it comes to these these new new platforms, new technologies that are being introduced. We know that oftentimes the technology is the easy part. Or at least the more straightforward part I should say. But it's it's sort of getting people on board the change management. What are some of the challenges that you that you know of artists faced in terms of of the culture and the skills for your for your workforce? >>So if you look at that, the are in disgrace, very traditionally nature. And when we embarking the details confirmation, I think the first thing we had to change the culture of the company. So when you when you listen to our CEO, I think you tried to promote this invoice culture where all of us are Syrian leaders. And then we walk, you know, as a thing as an organization where we try to help each other and more and more collaborate when it comes to digital transformation. When we started this having this period, we've realised actually that workforce was not trained, so the first few things that we did disease is a tight wire new workforce, but also try to actually identify the advocate ambassadors. I could go and then go into residual confirmation early on to be able to help and to guide the office to get for that. So it's actually it's totally immaterial, Johnny. And then we are now in the second year and we've seen already a tremendous four guys, right? >>Can you describe some of the changes that you've seen him? I mean, I'm really interested in what you talk about. The ambassador's, the people who are going to spread the good word. What are what are some of the changes that you've seen in your workforce? Yeah, we can mention >>that. It's like you mentioned before. Um, like, talking about regarding overall catch a bus back to tried to leverage a new attack. Knowledge like the delivery perspective. We trying to do more automation, and the May 1 side is trying to get more efficiency and also another side. Try to ensure the intern responsibility for one product to be produced and also at the same time, let me through more automation to think about this secret inside the compound inside. Help us a lot of in pulling that part also, because >>maybe I can compliment that so I think if you look at it when the initial studying part of our journey, I think that a lot of people were reluctant to go and then tie to work on a cloud and to work with digital technology. So we found few projects where we felt there's a good ready for money. And as we can deliver fast in fact, Andi to things like, I don't get reviewed t piece every. Make sure that when we went, our field falls, go then and talk to the hippies. They know what to talk about an orphan, and then which format. We also look at that we can reduce costs internally and for the food, different projects and then on product that we've established, we build credibility within the organization that helped to disseminate the cultural transformation. >>So once others air seeing, seeing the benefits that that captured, they're more likely to to feel good about the cloud work. >>Yeah, that's that's the true and also notes of the news. Things like our teams, they are interesting about that. You see more and more people talking about our driveway and also talk about the UAV's and how can we improve the did he re efficiency and the same time is come back to say that teams think about how to make themselves to be a product owner and the product the way of the great. Let's the glistening for the whole team >>because I want to bring you in here a little bit. So talk to me about how ex Center is helping Novartis, particularly in in this eight of us. Caught initiative. >>Six incher is a leader in business and technical i t transformation programmes. So what we're bringing on the table is in the expertise with not only the technology and the AWS elements, but also the business and technical transformation expertise that have we have over the years in the firm. On additionally, I think you know, it's not only about technology change. As you mentioned, it's all a lot of change and operating model and and also kind of working with a very blended team. Across that expertise and experience is what you bring to the table >>a blended team, culturally, regionally, actually, all of it >>one of that belief. I mean, just to give an example. We are working across steams in roughly about six geography ese from various cultures. Where's countries? And it's it's, ah, various time zones, which makes it quite challenging to make it all work together. So you started the journey. I hope you succeed in it. And, uh, you know, it's working well, so far, >>so Cloud is is really a megatrend right now. What are the differences that you're seeing across Regions, countries, industries? >>So I think it's this many answers many parts of the answer to the question. So I think if I talk about, um, industries So you know, initially when clouds started, we had seen a major up take off the cloud technology and the company that manufactured the clown technology and telecommunications, and you know where the older infrastructure and technology aspects were, Whereas companies like health care and media and metals and mining, We're kind of behind the curve in adoption rates because off their respective, you know, concerns around compliance and security of data. But I think that trends is slowly shifting. US. Companies are becoming more open. I think I've seen how the public cloud has matured. The security models, you know, are speaking for themselves. People can understand the benefits from moving to the cloud in terms off, you know, cost rationalization from producing maintenance costs, focusing their proteins on things that they were not able to divert their attention on. >>The fact we had, I think I will say for me and then where I've seen a Novartis if it is access to innovation. So I think loud offering brings a lot off innovation at happy face. That's one hand and also access to extend our collaboration. So when you're in, you know, inside focus I think the relatives from over there wants to walk and collaborate with you. But when you work on the cloud, everybody goes on the cloud. So that's really a stream manifested ate a collaboration with Nextel Partners. >>So how is that changing the culture of Novartis itself? In terms of there, there are more opportunities to collaborate. And it also is maybe changing the kinds of workers you attract because it is is people who want to be doing that in their day to day. >>Well, if you look at it, um, in the past, I think we used to have our own workforce, and then we tried to do a lot of things with our own workers, but I think he's in the on Monte. Workers are full of us, so we have more and more partnerships being announced, and this publishing, I mean used actually to help the company to in revenge himself. So that's actually on one hand on the other side. As you said, I think that to attract with talents I think you need. You also need to have a different future. But you need also to be able to give them the flexibility to work and do the things they like, and we're in a context and a framework. >>One of the things that we hear about so much at the's technology conference is this buzzword of digital transformation and of artisans obviously embarking on its own digital transformation as well as his journey to the cloud. There happen. They're powering each other, they're accelerating each other. How would you describe what is happening to the industry and to know Vargas with it within this, the pharmaceutical industry? >>Yeah, I think, based on our knowledge, to send the why this may be the first. The company can't be trying to build this kind of enterprise level data and also an Alex platform, and based on that, we will be able to counseling date off the history potato intended date on public date, huh? And the Human Industry Day. Then they tried to help us to produce the better products for the patient the same time it gave also the team a chance as you mentioned before, and the look at former more opportunities and the China to leverage in your technology particles of Kayla. >>It's also changed the way that we work every day. So if you look at it now, um, we won't be virtual assistant. We I think we use machine learning elements politics to be able to talkto you are a cheap piece. We actually monitor clickers, Kyle real time having using common centers. So every single day, I think the use off, digital at work and atom in the physical man thinks. And I think we have seen that the adoptions has increased since we have I ever to launch successful products. And I think >>one of the things which, which I really like about working in the bodies, is also I think there's there's an ambition to drive business value quickly. So you know you take a very agile use case, best approach on things rather than having to wait for very long years of time. Plus, the company kind of encourages a culture which is based on mutual cooperation and sharing knowledge, which is great >>because Novartis is really on the vanguard of companies in terms of how much it's embraced, the cloud and how much it's using it. What do you think? Other companies, pharmaceutical companies, but maybe even in other industries as well could learn from the nerve artists example. >>I think one thing people really shy about is, you know, when they moved to the cloud is the security aspect. I think what people probably had failed to realize in the past that there's been so much developments on security in the public cloud, which has bean key focus areas, something nobody's has taken the challenge and has understood that very well. And I think companies can learn from all the different aspects of security that you know were built into our entire transformation work, starting from ingesting data, the user management to access and all of that thing, so that's kind of one thing. Similarly, compliance related aspects as well, you know, So we've g x p compliance is at the core off how we're building our solution. So I think on dhe, if you understand how we built the rules around compliance. But in architecture, I think couples can learn from that a swell and build that is integral part off your not only technology solution, but the process that goes along with it. >>We started our conversation talking about Novartis and its quest to reimagine medicine. How How do you think that your industry is gonna look 5 10 years from now? I mean, the drug discovery process is slow on purpose. I mean, we need to think of patient health and safety for most. But how do you think it really could change the course of how we treat people? >>If if you look at it is more and more treatment required that actually I used and required data as a service or are being actually process for data. So when I am, when we look at the things the way that the industry is changing, I think the times to develop drugs, yes, takes longer. But I think for your use off the data that you have. I think you can try to reduce I cycle. So one of the objective is to reduce the cycle by one firm. Between that, we could bring the day. Is a new director market in eight years, rescues 12 years Today. The other thing is that way for user's data. You can monitor them patient, and you can recommend it the treatment of 80% off foundation. They don't go in and finish her treatment. So I think if we can show the audience to treatment, then there's a lower risk off the admissions to the season and sickness that they have. >>So it's not even not not just Novartis seeing the value of the date. It's the patients themselves, efficiency >>and the d. A r C as well, right? Because I think if you're if the situation is not six and I think the insurance doesn't have to pay. So I think all the value chances is being comes from >>well, sang Loic, because thank you so much for coming on the Cube. It was a really fascinating segment. Thank you. I'm Rebecca night. Stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of the Ex Center Executive Summit coming up in just a little bit

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat London twenty nineteen, Brought to you by Amazon Web services. >> We're at the A. W s summits here in London, at the XL Center there are thousands and thousands of delegates here looking to see the future for their own technologies on what Kyle will hold for them, as well as lots of the other established players here. There are plenty of startups. I'm just down the street and this is my co host, Dame Ellen. We're gonna be talking to a few of the startup founders who are with us here on the Cuban. It's great to have you here. So first up, Hu Pei jin, Who is that? The co founder of the three d mapping based service. And this is called Escape Technologies, but also chanting Jane. And you are the co founder. A swell founder, I believe is it found it found in co founder ofyour organization called Kwan. Now let me festival starts talking to Jan Di and about what you do because you're offering a service to financial services. Are you on helping them with machine learning? Teo, try and offer the best portfolio managers for wealth investment. How does it work? What you're offering? >> Yes, our platform basically allows traders, portfolio managers, asset managers who want to make smarter investment decisions to build machine learning models. To do this Theo idea is that data driven investing should help funds make more profits for themselves and their clients. But there's not enough data, scientists, King data scientist who can actually do more good for them. And we address this lack of talent by using a community of data scientist people who come from outside of finance to help them crowd to help fund managers crowdsource model, using their intelligence, their talent. So the process is really simple. Clients come to us with what we like to call an investment problem or a finance problem. We take that problem and convert it into a pure matter. And she learning problem. That's someone who is not from finance, can understand and soil >> so really interesting. You say that because I've spoken to other founders of other data companies who say, for example, be looking at the stars for their main bread and butter. But then Khun transfer those skills and astronomy to the financial sector and those types of people that you're trying to harness their skills. >> Yeah, exactly. So our community is made up of people who work at tech. Companies at Google and Amazon have sport off people who are putting graduate program and computer science and math machine learning, but don't necessarily know finance. And the idea is, can you make this problem than two problems? Can you make finance problem into problems that this community of data scientists really smart data scientists understand without needing to know finance? >> It's interesting that it lord, because ofthe a lack of of data scientists, Really? But do you think if you eliminate all the kind of heavy lifting out of what you do in the future, though, will be a need for fewer data? Scientists? >> I don't think we need to fut the scientist, but they wouldn't be a need for reform Toe have in house teams. They will basically be able to. A data scientist working in an unequal miss company should be able to solve problems of a finance company. The scientists working in uber should be able to solve problems for a hedge fund because we're building this translator that can allow knowledge from anywhere to be used to solve any kind of problems. >> Okay, let me talk to you because you do three d mapping services. Why do you think these are essential for technologies large and small? Going forward, >> Esso and every future industry in the future is going to have some autonomous aspect to it. So if you think about Atanas vehicles, ever think about delivery Jones. These are going to be machines. They're going to be acting autonomously in human like environments, and they're going to make decisions based on purely what they're observing with hardly human in between. So the only way that this can happen intelligently and safely is if those machines also have a human like understanding ofthe human like environment, just like you humans. So while we are providing these things, machines with Is that human like understanding and the first service that we're building towards that is a visual positioning system to provide the machines with the ability to answer the question. Where am I now? The only way that you can provide official positioning system is this. If you also have a visual map off of the world on this math needs to be updated in real time. So for every future industry, having a real time update version off the real world is fundamental. That's the pinnacle around. Every single every single decision that autonomous agent is going to make is going to be based upon this map. >> So this map was really value Peace Corps piece, um, that we're building. So I've often wondered if people talk about autonomous cars, but we don't have things like autonomous cart's right now. People will say, Well, an Amazon warehouse would have that. But there, following beacons or stripes, Yeah, what you're talking about is potentially taking >> us to the point where you can break that barrier. Is that fair? Exactly. And for warehouses, I would forever advice to use those beacons. Because warehouses are pre pre massaged environments, you define what the environment looks like. Whereas humans we walk around in cities, in nature and all these places that are not pre processed, we have to take our cues from the visuals that we observe. So if you go back to your hometown, for example, you observe a Starbucks logo Starbucks logo and observe our street sign, you might be able to very opposition based on those visual visual cues. Even though the environment itself was not pre processed to provide those cues, the cues are already in the nature. So >> we've heard that there have bean in these trials that have bean accident. There's a limit that is >> Oh, yeah, totally. So at the moment, they're sure are accidents, But you are a human. You can navigate properly with any human environment, using your visual sense it your eyes. Therefore, any machine will, in the future only need that visual sensor as well. So only a camera to navigate around the world were seeing great great progress on the neural networks, deep learning as well as on the geometry and visual image processing, like the type of computer vision that we do that are making so much progress that guaranteed a couple of years from now, the devices will have the understanding off the world like humans do. And we'LL be able to make decisions even better than humans do because they don't got there. They don't get tired. They don't need coffee. S o. B. Guaranteed. More safe than any human knowledge. It's Sunday, and you probably hate the term robo investing, right? But but it sounds like you're doing that form of machine investing for and with hedge funds is that isn't fair. And is your background finance data science or both? >> Both. Actually, I studied engineering, but I started working as a trader of infidelities trading company in Chicago. On that I started with them. We were very old school discretionary, you know, a couple of very senior guys who were making everything based on their past experience and that contusion about the market. On my time with them, he started shifting from this manual human process driven trading to something that was more systematic, inconsistent again. That's where the whole idea >> for all >> Kwan came from. I saw firsthand the benefits that making your trading more data driven more model and algorithms driven could have >> unique. You probably hate this trump to your unicorn, but I'm guessing you guys have no it shop is You're right. It is in the cloud. Is that writer OK, >> it is, you know, straight onto the cloud todo in that started. You didn't exist before. >> Yeah, yeah, Waylon Street in the club. >> And you got a team of developers. They program infrastructure. Totally. >> Yeah. We have a team off for developers and the city of totally tech team of five based out of India. We have a developed sky who basically runs everything for us. Our website, Our platform where the data scientist party prision where our clients see the mortals where client fronts for data to us and where our machine learning computations run >> right three t mapping used to buy a box the Unix box, maybe get a database mother software. Yeah, so we're in scale were thought of as well, right? So when we what you need is the process. If you want to create a three d map off even a city but we have to do is run eight hundred GPS in parallel, blasting through imagery data. Now, this is impossible. If we as a starter had to buy a GPU wreck right from the bat, we would have been bankrupt even before we started. So, like being able to spin up GPU servers in the cloud and also killing them after we're done with them say there's a lot of money but also provides so much flexibility for us to do prototyping and two on DH to make everything affordable and east implement with very, very small team of very talented system. >> It's a real kind of pick and mix approach. Just what kind of services do I need to get off the shelf? And then it happened to you? >> I think one of the great things that a US has been able to do infrastructure used to be a very dusty and tangled industry on one of the beauties that Davy was able to do is actually product eyes, product, eyes, infrastructure. So you can now actually pick and choose different products from the idea of a library and put them together, connect them, tied him up very, very cleanly. With a very small team, I create something that is just accedes. Any expectations from a start of twenty years ago. So why, why eight of us? A lot of other clouds out there who has got a good cloud. Microsoft has a big cloud. Why did you guys migrate or moved to eight of us not moved to start with a W s. How was that decision made? >> I mean, we started with eight of us because we were gonna start a program a date afterwards. But then we just really liked the support that we got a way. We had access to someone twenty four seven. We had a dedicated person who was helping us on DH. We were just starting out. So the first time interacting with a cloud infrastructure, uh, the support was greater than the pricing will go great. For a start, it would have to say that's just a start of ur cost sensitive and the ability to turn on on and off services as and when we need them. I think that was fantastic. >> Does it concern you that we've heard a lot about how the cost of services has come down quite a lot? There's a lot of Costco going, but in the future, if you're overly reliant on your provider, can that put you into a corner? >> I mean, you get into troubles if your spotify skill, but as a start of the environment that ate us created for startups to flourish, is incredible. The amount of I think you have the same, like we receive a huge amount of credits just for starting. So if you raise a seed round of money which is, let's say, one million U. S. Dollars. US puts one hundred thousand worth of credit. On top of that, that's ten percent extra funding for free provided. Wait. Oh, yes. Furthermore, they have this great architects. The help you out with all the questions that you might have if this is the first time that you are actually designing a whole our detector around a data processing apartment or an FBI or a Web platform? Very, very supportive. What was that? What's the one thing a ws would could do to make your life easier? If you're sitting here with Andy Jassy, what would you tell him? >> I mean, it's already fantastic. It's made our life so much easier. I really don't think of anything that could have gone better. >> Really? Nothing. I mean, you had reduced the cost even way prices. >> Okay. Well, thank you so much for talking to us about your experiences here on the Cube. Who? Heiner. Thank you. Co founder of Escape. And also it'LL really, Jane, it's really be fascinating to hear how you've grown your businesses. So I really appreciate you joining us here with me. Damayanti here at eight Ws summits in London

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape so cube conversations simplifying blockchain for developers remi karpadito is here is the CEO of espresso remy thanks for coming in yeah thanks for having yeah so you guys are in the Seaport we want to hear all the action that's going on there but let's start with espresso CEO founder or co-founder um not a co-founder founder okay good just to clarify with respect to your co-founders voice why did you guys start espresso yeah no it starts back on in a little bit little while ago we originally wanted to and a replace our first company was a company called campus towel and we want to replace student identity with NFC chips and smart phones and it was a really cool concept back in 2010 but at the time there's only one phone that had the technology capable of pulling the south and we built a prototype with that smart phone as a Samsung phone at the time and we brought that around to a dozen plus colleges showing hey you could replace the student ID with the phone you can just tap your phone to it for attendance for events etc and they loved it but everyone had the same question you know when is the iPhone can have the technology and we were three years early the iPhone didn't come up with NFC chips until 2013 and we ended up hitting into a mentoring platform and scaled that company October 70 colleges across the country but ironically enough we came back to the same issue a lot of CIOs and CTOs wants to interface with their single sign-on servers which required us to support this legacy technology you know so AJ and I spun back internally AJ's our co-founder and CTO to identify how can we replace identity again but instead of using hardware and smartphones let's use the blockchain and AJ was an early a Bitcoin adopter back in 2010 mining Bitcoin really I'm passionate about the technology and I started learning a little bit more about it and trying to find a way to incorporate blockchain technology into our student identity solution as a secondary offering for Campus Tau but we quickly realized was that our front-end engineering team who is a little bit underwater in terms of the technical skills that needed to help and participate in the development for the boccie an identity solution so we ended up building up to middleware components to help them with the development and that's where we saw kind of that's where the lightbulb went off and the bigger opportunity came about where a lot of the infrastructure and tooling needed in order to build a production level blockchain application isn't quite there yet ice we ended up hitting and building a new company called espresso to make botching development more accessible so let's talk about that that the challenge that your developers face so you were at the time writing in for aetherium and in solidity right which is explain to our audience why that's so challenging what is solidity yeah and and why is it so complex yes illinit e is a JavaScript based framework for writing smart contracts on in the etherion platform it's not a fully baked or fully developed tools that yet in terms of the language there's some nuances but on top of that you also need to understand how to support things like the infrastructure so the cryptography the network protocols so if you want to sustain your own blockchain there's a lower-level skill set needed so the average JavaScript engineering could be a little bit kind of overwhelmed by what's needed to actually participate in a full-blown botching development yes and they're probably close to 10 million JavaScript engineers worldwide so it sounds like your strategy is to open up blockchain development to that massive you know resource yeah and in JavaScript being a definite core focus out of the gates and will be developing a plethora of SDKs including JavaScript and Python and Ruby etc in the thought process is you know activating these engineers that have coming new code academies or Enterprise engineers that really get a C++ or another language and allowing them to code in the languages they already know and allow them to participate the blockchain development itself okay and so how many developers are on your team so we've it's a small ad product teams three people on a parodic team now but we're actually the process is killing that up yeah so those guys actually had to go on the job training so they kind of taught themselves and then that's where you guys got the idea said okay yeah exactly and we realized that you know if we could build out this infrastructure this tooling layer that just allows you compile the language as you know into the software or the blockchain side it can make it a much more accessible and then also the other thing too that's interesting it's not just kind of writing the languages they already accustomed to but it's also the way you architect these blockchain solutions and one thing we've realized is that a lot of people think that you know every piece of data needs to live on the blockchain where that's really not something I've been teachers for you to do so because it's really expensive to put all the data on the blockchain and it's relatively slow right now with ethereum of 30 transactions per second there's companies like V chain that are looking to remedy some of those solutions with faster write data write times but the thought process is you can also create this data store and with our middleware it's not just an SDK but it's a side chain or a really performant in-memory based data store they'll allow you to store off chain data it's still in a secure fashion through consensus etc that can allow you to write data rich or today's level applications on the blockchain which is really kind of the next step I see coming in the Box chain space so I'm gonna follow up on when coaching there I mean historically distributed database which is what blockchain is it's been you know hard to scale it's like I say low transaction volumes they had to pick the right use cases smart contracts is an obvious one yeah do you feel as though blockchain eventually you mentioned V chain it sounds like they're trying to solve that problem will eventually get there to where it can can compete with the more centralized model head on and some of you know the more mainstream apps yeah and that's and that's kind of where we are because our thought process if we were to move campus topic the kind of private LinkedIn for colleges per se on to the blockchain back when we started it wouldn't be possible so how do you store this non pertinent data this transactional or not even transactional this attribute data within a boxing application and that's really where that second layer solution comes into play and you see things like lightning Network for Bitcoin etc and plasma for aetherium but creating this environment where a developer comes on they create an account they name their application they pick their software language and then they pick their blockchain there's pre-built smart contract we offer them but on top of that they already have this data store that they can leverage these are things that people already accustomed to in the web 2.0 world these are the caching layers that everyone uses things like Redis etcetera that we're bringing into the blockchain space that well I that we believe will allow this kind of large-scale consumer type application well when you think about blockchain you think okay well he thinks it's secure right but at the same time if you're writing in solidity and you're not familiar with it the code could be exposed to inherent security flaws is that so do you see that as one of the problems that you're solving sort of by default yeah I think one thing here is that I kind of as you write a smart contract you need to audit you test it so on and so forth and so we're helping kind of get that core scaffolding put up for the developer so they don't need to start from scratch they don't need to pull a vanilla smart contract off of a open source library they can leverage ones that are kind of battle tested through our through our internal infrastructure so the last part of our kind of offering is this marketplace of pre developed components that developers can leverage to rapidly prototype or build their applications whether it be consumer engineer or enterprise that one and you were developer what's your back my background yeah so I studied entrepreneurship and Information Systems so I do have I was a database analyst at fidelity it was my last job in the corporate world so I do have some experience developing nowhere near that of my co-founder AJ or some of our other but but yeah I understand the core concepts pretty well well speaking blockchain who if she was talking about obviously you you see a lot of mainstream companies obviously the banks are all looking at it you're seeing companies we just you know heard VMware making some noise the other day you're at certainly IBM makes a lot of noise about smart contracts so you're seeing some of these mainstream enterprise tech companies you know commit to it what do you see there in terms of adoption in the mainstream yeah no I think the enterprise space is gonna want to fully embrace this technology first I think the consumer level we're still a little bit ways away there just because this infrastructure and this tooling is needed before developers kind of get there but from the enterprise space what we see I mean obvious things like supply chain being a phenomenal use case the blockchain technology Walmart IBM are already implementing really cool solutions one of them my advisors Rob Dulci is the president of Asia and they've successfully implemented several blockchain projects from car parts manufacturers to track and trace through wine seeds and this from grape seeds and so there's a lot of different use cases in the supply chain side identity is really exciting Estonia is already doing some really cool work with digital identities that's gonna have a big impact voting systems etc but also thinking through some newer concepts like video streaming and decentralization of Network Maps and so there's many different use cases and for us we're not trying to necessary solve like a dis apply chain problem or anything we're trying to give a set of tools that anyone can use for their verticals so we're excited to see kind of what a spreads used for and over the next several months to here I remember you mentioned V chain before so explain what V chain is and now your what you're doing with those guys yes if V chain is another kind of next generation blockchain they're they're v chain Thor is the new platform and actually their main net launch is tomorrow and they're really excited they're introducing heightened security faster block times more transactions per second they have a really interesting governance model that I think is a good balance between pure decentralization in the centralized world which i think is that that intermediate step that a lot of these enterprises are going to need to get to end of the block chain space and we're working with them or lon on their platform so our token sale will be run through V chain which is great in addition we'll be working with them with through strategic partnerships and the goal is have espresso be the entry point for developers coming into V chain so we'll help kind of navigate the waters and kind of have them leverage the pre-built smart contracts and get more developers into the ecosystem okay let's talk about your token sale so you're doing the utility token yep and so that means you've actually got utility in the token so how is that utility token being utilized within your community yeah so the data actually the token is used to meter and mitigate abuse in the platform as well so at every single transaction it'll validate the transaction in addition it will be an abstraction layer since we do speak to multiple block chains that ezpz token will have to abstract up to aetherium to Thor which is the V chain token the future dragon chain etc so that's a really interesting use case and one of the interesting things we're trying to solve right now if you're a developer trying to come in and use it it cryptocurrency for development you need to go to something like a coin base you have to exchange fiat to aetherium you have to push that out to a third party exchange you have to do a trade and then you have to send that digital wallet address where you get easy peasy Oh to our account after that's a ton of friction and that's more friction if you're not a crypto person you're gonna be what is it you're gonna be asking to do it yeah so we're talking to some pretty big potential partners that allow kind of they would be the intermediate intermediary or money service to allow a seamless transition for engineer just to come straight onto espresso put down a credit card bank account verified go through the standard kyc AML process and then be able to get easy peasy in real time and that's something that at a macro level I think is one of the biggest barriers to entry in the botching space today so what do you call you your token easy-peasy okay so you're making that simple transparent done so you're doing a utility token you do in a raise where are you at would that raise give us the details there yeah yes so we just close our friends and family around we're not private sale right now are working closely with the VA in the VA chain foundation helping kick that off right now as well and we're yeah this is gonna be much more strategic capital in this round and then after that we'll be moving into since we are partnered with each a in their community gets a little bit of exclusivity in the next piece of the round so their master note holders will get a bigger discount in the next round and then the last round will be the public round for the general community and that's where we anticipate a lot of developers we already have development shops coming on participating in the first round which is great because the thought process is we want to get as many developers in this platform as possible throughout the summer and I think that's one of the most unique things about the token sales it's not just raising capital it's actually getting people that want to use your product to buy him now and that's that's amazing so okay so you're doing the private sale first right and you open that up to those types of folks that you just mentioned and they get some kind of discount on the on the token because they're there in early and they're backing you guys early and then you guys got a telegram channel I know it was on the recently anything is exploding it looks like a pretty hot you know offering and then then what happens next then you open it up to just a wider audience we start getting the core community members from V chain and then after that the public sale will be really targeted for the unused these are the people that you know need to put in a large substantial amount of capital again and at that point you could put in a couple hundred dollars and actually participate in in the token sale and you'd be getting in the kind of ground Florida sand and the SEC just made a ruling you know recently a week ago or so that Bitcoin and in aetherium were not security so that's a good thing nonetheless you as a CEO and entrepreneur you must have been concerned about you know a utility token and making sure everything's clean that there actually is utility you can't just use the utility token to do a raise and then go build the products you have you had it you have a working product right yeah so there's a lot of functionality already set up and we're going to continue to iterate before we even get close to the actual tokens or the public sale right so we anticipate having full functionality of what we want to get out there to the development world by the end of the sale so it's the thing that we I think one of the biggest things in this space right now in terms of the law and compliance side is a lot of self regulation since in the u.s. in particular it's such a great area you need to one stay up-to-date with every single hearing announcement but also really make sure you're you're taking best practices with kyc AML making sure the people you know good people that are investing into the comm or I've kind of participating in the allocation and and that's something we you know we've spent a lot of time with our legal team I've got pretty intimate with our lawyers and really understanding kind of the nuances of this space over time what about domicile what can you advise people you know based on your experience in terms of domicile yeah I'm not a lawyer but based on our experience I mean there's some great places over in in Europe you know Switzerland Malta Gibraltar we're down on the came in and also Singapore there's a you know these different legislature or jurisdictions are writing new law to support the effort and I think that's gonna continue to happen and I hope it happens in the u.s. too so we remove some of this nuance and gray areas that people can feel more comfortable operating and I think that's gonna happen hopefully soon in the next six months or so we'll see but as long as more guidance continues to come out I think we can operate or people can operate in the US I know a lot of people are moving offshore like we did so just something that's gonna it's a tough area right now well it gives you greater flexibility um and it like you said it's less opaque so you can have more confidence that what you're gonna do is on the up-and-up because as an entrepreneur you don't want you know I'm not gonna worry about compliance you just want to do your job and write great code and execute and build a company and so I mean I feel I don't know if you agree that the u.s. is a little bit behind you know this is kind of really slow to support entrepreneurs like yourselves like like us we'd like more transparency and clarity and you just can't seem to get a decision you're sort of in limbo and you got to move your business ahead so you make a decision you go to the Caymans you go to Switzerland you go to Malta and you move on right so and I think it's interesting too and you know a lot of what the SEC did in the beginning there's a ton of bad actors out there just as well and there's a bunch of good actors too so again if you yourself regulate you play you really understand what you need to do to be compliant you should be fine but again I think the flexibility you get right now is the more kind of defined law and some these other jurisdictions makes a lot of it yeah and I don't mean to be unfair to SEC they are doing a job and they need to protect the little guy and protect the innocent no question I would just like to see them be more proactive and provide more clarity sooner than later so okay last question the Seaport scene in Boston you know we always compare Boston and silicon silicon valley you can't compare the two Silicon Valley's a vortex in and of itself but the Boston scenes coming back there's blockchain there's IOT the Seaport is cranking you guys are in the Seaport you live down there what are you seeing would give us a what's the vibe like ya know watching me just passed about a month ago it may be less and as the great turnouts I spoke at a few events a few hundred people kind of it each one which is great and it's interesting you get a good mix of Enterprise people looking to learn and educate themselves in the space you see the venture capital side moving into the space and participating in a lot of these larger scale events and it's definitely growing rapidly in terms of the blockchain scene in Boston and I spent some time in New York and that's another great spot to and an even think places like Atlanta and I was down in Denver I did a big presentation down in Denver which was awesome and and now the coolest thing about blockchain is it really is global I spent a lot of time in Asia and in Europe and speaking over there the the pure at like the tangible energy in the room is amazing and it's one of the most exciting things about the industry many people that in the space know we're on the cutting edge here we're on the this is a new frontier that we're building along the way being part of that and helping define that is pretty exciting stuff that's cool you know I said last question I lied I forgot to ask you a little bit more about your your team maybe you could you talk a team your team your advisors maybe you could just give us a brief yeah okay there my co-founder and CTO we've been working together since I believe my sophomore year at college so it's been a while and he's their original crypto a blockchain guy and and pushed us in the spaces leading to the product development on that from in the top of that we have Craig Gainsborough our CFO I actually spent a lot of time at PwC he was the North America tax and advisory CFO over there Jalen Lou is the director of product marketing Kevin coos the head of product he worked he was nominated for a Webby and then we have our ops team Kyle who's a former campus - a complete business deaf guy over there that's working on us from some of the other side on the advisory team we have a really good team sunny luke from the CEO and founder of e chain just came on eileen quentin the president of Dragon chain foundation that was the blockchain company spun out of Disney and then David for gamma is the co-founder and had a product at autonomy that's an IOT protocol really really cool stuff happening over there new new new program coming about Rob Dulci as the president of Asia in North America which is the supply chain company and they've already successfully deployed a handful of use cases and mihaela dr. mahele Uluru who is really interesting and in this sense that she was working on decentralized systems before they were called blockchain she worked with the professor in Berkeley that defined decentralized in technology and she speaks in the World Economic Forum frequently and is really just a global presenter so we have we feel like we have a really strong team right now and we're actually getting to the point of scaling so it's gonna be exciting to start bringing in some new people and picking up the momentum it's super exciting well listen congratulations on getting to where you are and best of luck going forward best of luck with the raise and and solving the problem that you're solving it's it's an important one and thanks for coming in the cube of course thank you so much you're welcome all right thanks for watching everybody we'll see you next time this is david onte

live from las vegas it's the cube covering discover 2016 las vegas brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise now you're your host John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back here and we are here live in Las Vegas for HP discover 2016 exclusive coverage from SiliconANGLE media's two cubes our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal noise i'm john / with my co-host dave allante and our next guest is Bobby Patrick CMO of the cloud enterprise group at HPE and Michael Loomis head of sales of global enterprise that at nuage networks pardon now part of Nokia that's right welcome back to the cube welcome for the first time thank you very much may the cube alumni club that's right it's bro my cabin I leave I gotta get a platinum membership now no VIP Thompson after six times you got we people want have a cube alumni event at these events so it's be fun next year like that we'll look at that yeah Bobby I want to get touch base on the cloud you also you'd run in the cloud group I Nokia's customer of you guys obviously HP everyone knows the history had the public cloud they kind of pivoted over and now you guys found your swim lane alright you to just take a minute right to clarify Andrey amplify what we talked about last and right I'm in London around HP's cloud strategy it's not like it's not define you guys have a clear line of sight right take a minute to just share your vision and the specifically the company's cloud strategy yeah thanks John it's great to be here again you know cloud is the catalyst for our customers transformation and our partners and got 24 here at discover onstage showcasing he lien at healing at work it up I've been there two years now and our cloud strategy couldn't be any more on fire and working this three prongs to it the first one is we want to help customers in a multi cloud world source manager consume cloud services across traditional IT private managed in public rightly so the azure partnership before we have dropbox now as well and others so we're demonstrating that second one is we want to partner with the leading technology so you mentioned the public cloud we used to have in the past now we're focused on that part of the right mix of our customers cloud strategy on public cloud partnerships so you see that Microsoft Azure specialty clouds like enter links around document collaboration you know doc Dropbox so all examples of demonstrating around partner clouds and the third one is we want to integrate our solutions with those clouds as well so managing that multi-cloud world is complex working with becomes like Nokia we're taking healing and healing OpenStack is giving Cloud Foundry we're layering on it called cloud orchestration which we now bundle as our healing Cloud suite today and we pull in public cloud we pull in manage private and traditional IT into one single solution for our customers so you mentioned as your and there's nothing in the announcements this morning that mention as yours that's the previous relationship right we announced our partners with as your last discover this one there's a number of announcements just showing it at work right our managed cloud broker offering cloud brokerage is a really big deal now for CIOs trying to manage a multi-cloud world now extends to azure so there's a lot of those announcements are going to see throughout discover with Azure and there's gonna be some other cloud announcements as well well we'll get to the eucalyptus AWS relationship kind of late if I wanted to ask you specifically around the strategy and how you see the cloud enabling delivery and on the opening i mentioned dave was asking about my views on HP's growth and I kind of use the story of back in the old days of the many computers this little laserjet attachment to walang system was a major growth engine for HP and the rest is history so we're kind of looking at the cloud and saying okay is IOT that bolt onto the cloud that is going to lift up where cloud becomes also pervasive like many computers and then distributed computing did how are you guys enabling things like IOT right because now the hybrid cloud public private data center right is integrating together right do you see that as an integration into the cloud and you enabling those kinds of things there's actually two big kind of growth axes that I think a report right one is you mentioned IOT so the number of devices connected the amount of data just huge orders of magnitude growth you got to actually drive costs down and things as well be part of that and so that's a big deal i would say universal platform that we announced as well healing is a back-end for that so massive scale on OpenStack on our cloud line service or other so you get that Maxim economics with new wash another spreading across multiple data centers for availability we have that platform for IOT but I think from a growth in March we look at the new hpe now right the lighter nimbler stronger when i layer on our security product security's number one concern our customers have going to go into cloud you know arcsight being able to do threat detection across a hybrid cloud right right the ability to do encryption with our data secure product right bringing in our big data products like Vertica for the column data store in our in our work around Hadoop or distributed are right when you get to bring those pieces into the fold right you begin to have the ability to add on top high-value software and services more of the stack you know obviously infrastructure across the bottom so what I see is us growing share of wallet growing our strategic relevance by both by both handling the massive amounts of data that's being generated supporting the connected world but also security managing that data big data fast data and providing that full stack on top and we're bringing all those pieces together but the past HP kind of have these siloed be use in a way right not anymore all these pieces are coming together and that's a big part of my my organization responsibility so Michael talked about where nuage fits in what's the relationship where do you guys add value so nuage is a what we call a software-defined networking product it's born out of some routing technology that we've had for a number of years we started our router products back in 2001 and we're number one or number two depending on the category and service provider edge routers and when you look at the the problem of scale out and flexibility in the cloud you need some complex network constructs that may not be ready of readily available in some of those cloud tools and obviously you can't go throw an expensive service provider edge router at that problem so what we did is we took that software use that as a SDN controller to manage the forwarding tables of the virtual switches or the namespace in the case of linux container integrated that into the distribution or a cloud system like Keely on and there you go you've got a stack that can scale out at the network layer and at the composite VMware killer yeah as a solution Kyle singer always talking about network and he's so proud of his acquisition of the stn player and the sierra which is a part of the vmware but dave and i always saw always saw that the network was the bottom that you seeing a rube out there yes pacifically talk about where the network piece fits in and why that's so important right now with cloud you mentioned some technical things but is it is it really the DevOps enable or is it about the containers is it about the micro services all the above what's the key will issue network is important for scale anytime you want to go multi data center or hybrid or you want to secure your applications you got to have an advanced networking solution or an SDN solution what's driving that scale you know we approach private cloud a few years back we had the stack we were putting it together we got nice production pilots up in the customers and then we found that a lot of the applications weren't built to consume the flexibility and the scale out that we delivered with that private cloud so these enterprises are going back and they've got new applications that are coming on that are micro services oriented architectures cloud native applications and they can consume this architecture and they're starting to it's not just IOT it's lots of applications that are relooking at how to take advantage of this infrastructure it's being built and that spreads across multiple data centers and part of the hybrid cloud which is why solid networking solutions important it's absolutely critical have good networking let's get to the DevOps question I'll see the big process workloads one of the things you guys have talked about in your announcements morning was obviously workload management having the ability of flexibility by poseable infrastructure yadda yadda yeah I got it Michael you that you're developing this stuff and the thing that Dave and I here and Wikibon community from customers is make it easier for me the total cost of ownership is out of control it's super hard to do this how does this get easier how are people managing through the complexity to make it simpler and how are they managing the total cost of ownership keeley on so that's just why it's important for us because we come in and we have a lot of great networking technology but people are not going to consume that networking technology in and of themselves they need a integrated complete stack that's supported installs quickly and as an orchestration layer on top that's going to allow it to scale the staples an example this I just say annealing what specifically about helium makes it simpler lower costs so when you look at healing on one great tool set they built together is an installer tool set and so there's nice scripting that's going to take when you look at a cloud you've got OpenStack components you've got your Cloud Foundry components you got your networking components storage components and to have all of that stuff install and deploy seamlessly and scale out as demand is required that doesn't come off the shelf if you're going to self integrate some of these open source projects so that the support and service that's added with helium and then if you look at the sea a slate layer on top to manage all the components and integrate in with some of the public clouds that's what takes the technology stack from being a great set of standards and a great set of open-source products that can now be consumed well dude some installation was the biggest barrier openstax had for a long time now how complex it was to install it scale right so i think that the contract and it takes it from a stack of technology to something that actually solves a business so that business problem is IT labor right right that's right non differentiated provisioning or patching or talk about the shift that's going on within that sort of labor pool from stuff that gives you no competitive advantage out to where we are today or where we're headed we used to go into proof of concepts and the customer would one or two types they either have an OpenStack expert in there someone who had lived and breathe it and was part of the original community and they would work with us to get the initial stack up and running a guy a guy or we would have to bring that guy to the table and they get somebody that was trying to be that person we'd help them stand up OpenStack at the same time we'd go in with nuage we knew that wasn't going to work so that's when we started partnering strongly with partners like healing on who can come in and make that work for the enterprise and if you're in a CIOs position you don't want to be dependent on one or two OpenStack experts that you've got to make sure stay or you gotta hire an army of OpenStack engineers what you want is a private cloud that works in a trusted partner to deliver it for you but you want the openness and the standards-based attributes of a product like Helion so you can plug other pieces of the environment in so that's it's really important Dave just you know the average the average customer that we have today has one engineer for every 240 virtual machines with helium staccato 40 which were rolling out has we believe we can get that to 12 500 and that's because you've got a universal control plane where you've got a single pane of glass basically across all the clouds but as your AWS openstack-based clouds maybe even some vmware stack clouds as well and and you could through one see the workloads deploy them that's how you really get a continuous delivery pipeline going it's api's for developers but a single pane of glass for IT and scale what's key it's working now so it brought up VMware VMware killer when you mention it so I'll bring up the VMware question so back in the day VMware ecosystem was really robust yeah some are saying it's on the decline will see that what's the update our vmworld the cube will be there again this year but they made for every one of their partners they made ten dollars for every dollar VMware book so they threw up a lot of cash which is great but the ecosystem you know feeds the feeds that feeds the beast if you will how are you guys Bobby doing that with your partners and now do you see docker for instance enabling things like that and how does that all you have to do some sort of economic advantage for your partners can you share some insight into what you got yeah yeah yeah so in addition to you know that the terms around helping it be attractive to skill up and and transfer our partners transforming as well most of them in resellers you know they want to climb the stack now they would be more relevant to their customers the skilling up does have come with cost and one of the big things we're doing is working on go to market with them actually bringing them bringing them opportunities bringing them in the deals in the case of like with with with Nokia right the ability to to go in with them work on accounts together these are major really large significant IT transformations with our other partners as well skilling them up getting bringing them away wrapping services around their monetization services wrappers yeah they're actually building hostess back up as a service other kinds of service offerings that they build and run themselves that we will actually sell to our go-to-market channels or they'll deploy on site that you know most of our business you know seventy percent goes through the channel right was there a number can you share a number ten dollars I don't have the number by the number how do stuff how does the ecosystem build around and how they make money with helion's the services is that the apps we deploy we sell software licenses so as Helion scales out we get more workloads on the system then we're going to sell more software licenses but the ecosystem is critical for us because when you're talking about building a private cloud and you're talking about building an open private cloud which is getting away from the vendor lock that exists today which is why people are driving to some of these open source products it means that a lot of products have to come together and work well together and so it usually it's the it's the OpenStack distribution that's that's like healing on that's leading that ecosystem we're a part of that and then we get interaction with a lot of other components as a part of that ecosystem that helps build an end solution to the customer we have 360 now cloud builder partners we had 30 18 months ago will have 3018 more months right we're transforming them and they're building new businesses hire marketing services and grow in their bodies how do you see the CSC Spinco whatever we're going to call that affecting is you had basically a built-in consumer right of you know your stuff there one of the Cantonian area's biggest customers right how will that shake out you think and of course CS he has a strong relationship with AWS that's goodness but yeah yeah I think I think it's about focuses meg always says writes about it's about having companies i can really focus on their best thing right so you know we have a growth high growth a growth company focus on software and hardware and infrastucture and services I think outsourcing they're coming together with CSC they're building a be a big partner of ours but we're also part with Accenture and others as well so I think it's hella everybody to be the best of what they do we'll have relationships contractual and partnership relationships but it will allow maybe a bit more complete competition probably very very healthy you feel Alfie with the sis the big power s eyes you guys in good shape with those guys yeah in Price Waterhouse Coopers just received a partner of the year for cloud they're here in a big way accenture is here yeah I think they're they're big as well but you know our enterprise services and and they're here in a big way too and I think that will continue some of the influences out there last question wants to know about the update on equal lyptus AWS that relation down can give an update yeah so our strategy is to partner with public cloud providers many of them eucalyptus has a great story you know where obviously you go to reinvent or a big part of that you know I think there will be you'll see more to come on the public cloud partnership partnership face but will be at reinvent no to the cube watch a movie at dr. Khan as well coming up very quickly I think next week or the week after thank you okay let me avenge coming up guys thanks so much appreciate it thanks for spending the time yeah thank you i'll be Patrick Michael Loomis here on the cube this is a cube we'll be right back after this short break