(upbeat music) >> Announcer: TheCUBE presents Ignite '22 brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas guys and girls. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. This is day one of the cube's two day coverage of Palo Alto Networks Ignite at the MGM Grand. Dave, we've been having some great conversations today, we have a great two day lineup execs from Palo Alto, it's partner network, customers, et cetera. Going to be talking about infrastructure as code. We talk about that a lot, how Palo is partnering with its partner ecosystem to really help customers deliver security across the organization. >> We do a predictions post every year. Hopefully you can hear me. So we do this predictions post every year. I've done it for a number of years, and I want to say it was either 2018 or 2019, we predicted that HashiCorp was one of these companies to watch. And then last August, on August 9th, we had supercloud event in Palo Alto. We had David McJannet in, who is the CEO of HashiCorp. And we really see Hashi as a key player in terms of affecting multicloud consistency. Sometimes we call it supercloud, you building on top of the hyperscale cloud. So super excited to have HashiCorp on. >> Really an important conversation. We've got an alumni back with us. Asvin Ramesh is here the senior director of Alliances at HashiCorp. Welcome back. >> Yeah, thank you. Good to be back. >> Great to have you. Talk to us a little bit about what's going on at HashiCorp, your relationship with Palo Alto Networks, and what's in it for customers. >> Yeah, no, no, great question. So, Palo Alto has been a fantastic partner of ours for many years now. We started way back in 2018, 2019 focusing on the basics, putting integrations in place that customers can be using together. And so it's been a great journey. Both are very synergistic. Palo Alto is focused on multicloud, so are we, we focus on cloud infrastructure automation, and ensuring that customers are able to bring in agility, reliability, security, and be able to deliver to their business. And then Palo Alto brings in great security components to that multicloud story. So it's a great story altogether. >> Some of the challenges that organizations have been facing. Palo Alto just released a survey, I think this morning if I can find it here what's next in cyber organizations facing massive headwinds ransomware becoming a household word, business email compromise being a challenge. But also in the last couple of years the massive shift to multi-club or organizations are living an operating need to do so securely. It's no longer nice to have anymore. It's absolutely table stakes for survival, and being able to thrive and grow for any business. >> Yeah, no, I think it's almost a sort of rethinking of how you would build your infrastructure up. So the more times you do it right the better you are built to scale. That's been one of the bedrocks of how we've been working with Palo Alto, which is rethinking how should IT be building their infrastructure in a multicloud world. And I think the market timing is right for both of us in terms of the progress that we've been able to make. >> So, I mean Terraform has really become sort of a key ingredient to the cloud operating model, especially across clouds. Kind of describe how partners, and customers are are implementing that cross-cloud capability. What's that journey look like? What's the level of maturity today? >> Yeah, great question, Dave. So we sort of see customers in three buckets. The first bucket is when customers are in the initial phases of their cloud journey. So they have disparate teams in their business units try out clouds themselves. Typically there is some event that occurs either some sort of a security scare or a a cloud cost event that triggers a rethinking of how they should be thinking about this in a scalable way. So that leads to where the cloud operating model which is a framework that HashiCorp has. And we use that successfully with customers to talk them through how they should be thinking about their process, about how they should be standardizing how people operate, and then the products they should be including, but then you come to that stage, and you start to think about a centralized platform team that is putting in golden workflows, that is putting in as a service mindset for their business units thinking through policies at a corporate level. And then that is a second stage. And then, but this is also in some customers more around public clouds. But then the third stage that we see is when they start embracing their private cloud or the on-prem data center, and have the same principles address across both public clouds, and the on-prem data center, and then Terraform scale for any infrastructure. So, once you start to put these practices in place not just from a technology standpoint, but from a process, and product standpoint, you're easily able to scale with that central platform organization. >> So, it's all about that consistency across your estate irrespective of whether it's on-prem in AWS, Azure, Google, the Edge, maybe. I mean, that's starting, right? >> Asvin: Yes. >> And so when you talk about the... Break it down a little bit process and product, where do you and Palo Alto sort of partner and add value? What's that experience like? >> Yeah, so, I think as I mentioned earlier the bedrock is having ways in which customers are able to use our products together, right? And then being able to evangelize the usage of that product. So one example I'll give you is with Prisma Cloud, and Terraform Cloud to your point about Terraform earlier. So customers can be using Prisma Cloud with Terraform Cloud in a way that you can get security context telemetry during an infrastructure run, and then use policies that you have in Prisma Cloud to be able to get or run or to implement or run or make sure essentially it is adhering to your security policy or any other audits that you want to create or any other cost that you want to be able to control. >> Where are your customer conversations these days? We know that security is a board level conversation. Interestingly, in that same survey that Palo Alto released this morning that I mentioned they found that there's a big lack of alignment between the board and the C-suite staff, the executive suite in terms of security. Where are your conversations, and how are you maybe facilitating that alignment that needs to be there? Because security it's not a nice to have. >> Yeah, I think in our experience, the alignment is there. I think especially with the macro environment it's more about where where do you allocate those resources. I think those are conversations that we're just starting to see happen, but I think it's the natural progression of how the environment is moving, and maybe another quarter or two, I think we'll see greater alignment there. >> So, and I saw some data that said I guess it was a study you guys did 90% of customer say multicloud is working for them. That surprised me 'cause you hear all this negativity around multicloud, I've been kind of negative about multicloud to be honest. Like that's a symptom of MNA, and a or multi-vendor. But how do you interpret that? When they say multicloud is working? How so? >> Yeah, I think the maturity of customers are varied as I mentioned through the stages, right? So, there are customers who even in the initial phases of their journey where they have different business units using different clouds, and from a C standpoint that might still look like multicloud, right? Though the way we think about it is you should be really in stage two, and stage three to real leverage the real power of multicloud. But I think it's that initial hump that you need to go through, and being able to get oriented towards it, have the right set of skillsets, the thought process, the product, the process in place. And once you have that then you'll start reaping the benefits over a period of time, especially when some other environments events happen, and you're able to easily adjust to that because you're leveraging this multicloud environment, and you have a clear policy of where you'll use which cloud. >> So I interpreted that data as, okay, multicloud is working from the standpoint of we are multicloud, okay? So, and our business is working, but when I talk to customers, they want more to your point, they want that consistent experience. And so it's been by, to use somebody else's term, by default. Chuck Whitten I think came up with that term versus by design. And now I think they have an objective of, okay, let's make multicloud work even better. Maybe I can say that. And so what does that experience look like? That means a common experience all the way through my stack, my infrastructure stack, which is that's going to be interesting to see how that goes down 'cause you got three separate clouds, and are doing their own APIs. But certainly from a security standpoint, the PaaS layer, even as I go up the stack, how do you see that outcome, and say the next two to five years? >> Yeah, so, we go back to our customers, and they're very successful ones who've used the cloud operating model. And for us the cloud operating model for us includes four layers. So on the infrastructure layer, we have Terraform and Packer, on the security layer we have Vault and Boundary, on the networking layer we have Consul, and then on applications we have Nomad and Waypoint. But then you really look at, from a people process, and product standpoint, for people it's how do you standardize the workflows that they're able to use, right? So if you have a central platform team in place that is looking at common use cases that multiple business units are using. and then creates a golden workflow, for example, right? For these various business units to be able to use or creates what we call a system of record for cloud adoption it helps multiple business units then latch onto this work that this central platform team is doing. And they need to have a product mindset, right? So not like a project that you just start and end with. You have this continuous improvement mindset within that platform team. And they build these processes, they build these golden workflows, they build these policies in place, and then they offer that as a service to the business units to be able to use. So that increases the adoption of multicloud. And also more importantly, you can then allow that multicloud usage to be governed in the way that aligns with your overall corporate objectives. And obviously in self-interest, you'd use Terraform or Vault because you can then use it across multiple clouds. >> Well, let's say I buy into that. Okay, great. So I want that common experience 'cause so when you talk about infrastructure, take us through an example. So when I hear infrastructure, I say, okay if I'm using an S3 bucket over here an Azure blob over there, they got different APIs, they got different primitives. I want you to abstract that away. Is that what you do? >> Yeah, so I think we've seen different use cases being used across different clouds too. So I don't think it's sort of as simple as, hey, should I use this or that? It is ensuring that the common tool that you use to be able to leverage safer provisioning, right? Is Terraform. So the central team is then trained in not only just usage of Terraform open source, but their Terraform cloud, which is our managed service, and Terraform enterprise which is the self-managed, but on-prem product, it's them being qualified to be able to build these consistent workflows using whatever tool that they have or whatever skew that they have from Terraform. And then applying business logic on top of that to your point about, hey, we'd like to use AWS for these kind of workloads. We'd like to use GCP, for example, on data or use Microsoft Azure for some other type of- >> Collaboration >> Right? But the common tooling, right? Remains around the usage of Terraform, and they've trained their teams there's a standard workflow, there's standard process around it. >> Asvin, I was looking at that survey the HashiCorp state of cloud strategy survey, and it talked about skill shortages as being the number one barrier to multicloud. We talk about the cyber skills gap all the time. It's huge. It's obviously a huge issue. I saw some numbers just the other day that there's 26 million developers but there's less than 3 million cybersecurity professionals. How does HashiCorp and Palo Alto Networks, how do you help customers address that skills gap so that they that they can leverage multicloud as a driver of the business? >> Yeah, another great question. So I think I'd say in two or three different ways. One is be able to provide greater documentation for our customers to be able to self use the product so that with the existing people, for example, you build out a known example, right? You're trying to achieve this goal here is how you use our products together. And so they'll be able to self-service, right? So that's one. Second is obviously both of us have great services partners, so we are always working with these services partners to get their teams trained and scaled up around these skill gaps. And I think I'd say the third which is where we see a lot of adoption is around usage of the managed services that we have. If you take Palo Alto's example in this Palo Alto will speak better to it, but they have SOC services, right? That you can consume. So, they're performing that service for you. Similarly, on our side we have a HashiCorp Cloud Platform, HCP, where you can consume Vault as a service, you can consume Consul as a service. Terraform cloud is a managed service, so you don't need as many people to be able to run that service. And we abstract all the complexity associated with that by ourselves, right? So I'd say these are the three ways that we address it. >> So Zero Trust across big buzzword. We heard this in this morning keynotes, AWS is always saying, well, we'll talk about it too, but, okay, customers are starting to talk about Zero Trust. You talk to CISOs, they're like, yes, we're adopting this mentality of unless you're trusted, we don't trust you. So, okay, cool. So you think about the cloud you've got the shared responsibility model, and then you've got the application developers are being asked to do more, secure the code. You got the CISO now has to deal with not only the shared responsibility model, but shared responsibility models across clouds, and got to bring his or her security ethos to the app dev team, and then you got to audit kind of making sure they're like the last line of defense. So my question is when you think about code security and Zero Trust in that new environment the problem with a lot of the clouds is they don't make the CISOs life any easier. So I got to believe that your objective with Palo Alto is to actually make the organization's lives easier. So, how do you deal with all that complexity in specifically in a Zero Trust multicloud environment? >> Yeah, so I'll give you a specific example. So, on code to cloud security which is one of Palo Alto's sort of key focus area is that Prisma Cloud and Terraform Cloud example that I gave, right? Where you'd be able to use what we call run tasks essentially, web hook integrations to be able to get a run or provide some telemetry back to Prisma Cloud for customers to be able to make a decision. On the Zero Trust side, we partner both on the Prisma Cloud side, and the Cortex XSOAR side around our products of Vault and and Consul. So what Vault does is it allows you to control secrets, it allows you to store secrets. So a Prisma Cloud or a Cortex customer can be using secrets from Vault familiarly for that particular transaction or workflow itself, right? Rather than, and so it's based on identity, and not on the basis of just the secret sort of lying around. Same thing with console helps you with discovery, and management of services. So, Cortex and you can automate, a lot of this work can get automated using the product that I talked about from Zero Trust. I think the key thing for Zero Trust in our view is it is a end destination, right? So it'll take certain time, depends on the enterprise, depends on where things are. It's a question of specifically focusing on value that Palo Alto and HashiCorp's products bring to solve specific use cases within that Zero Trust bucket, and solve one problem at a time rather than try to say that, hey, only Palo Alto, and only HashiCorp or whatever will solve everything in Zero Trust, right? Because that is not going to be- >> And to your point, it's never going to end, right? I mean you're talk about Cortex bringing a lot of automation. You guys bring a lot of automation now Palo Alto just bought Cider Security. Now we're getting into supply chain. I mean it going to hit it at the edge and IoT, the people don't want another IoT stove pipe. >> Lisa: No. >> Right? They want that to be part of the whole picture. So, you're never done. >> Yeah, no, but it is this continuous journey, right? And again, different companies are different parts of that journey, and then you go and rinse and repeat, you maybe acquire another company, and then they have a different maturity, so you get them on board on this. And so we see this as a multi-generational shift as Dave like to call it. And we're happy to be in the middle of it with Palo Alto Networks. >> It's definitely a multi-generational shift. Asvin, it's been great having you back on theCUBE. Thank you for giving us the update on what Hashi and Palo Alto are doing, the value in it for customers, the cloud operating model. And we should mention that HashiCorp yesterday just won a Technology Partner of the Year award. Congratulations. Yes. >> We're very, very thrilled with the recognition from Palo Alto Networks for the Technology Partner of the Year. >> Congrats. >> Thank you Keep up the great partnership. Thank you so much. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you so much. >> For our guest, and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, live in Las Vegas. You watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back, everyone to CUBE Supercloud 22. I'm John Furrier, your host. Got a great influencer, Cloud Cloud RRT segment with Sarbjeet Johal, Cloud influencer, Cloud economist, Cloud consultant, Cloud advisor. Sarbjeet, welcome back, CUBE alumni. Good to see you. >> Thanks John and nice to be here. >> Now, what's your title? Cloud consultant? Analyst? >> Consultant, actually. Yeah, I'm launching my own business right now formally, soon. It's in stealth mode right now, we'll be (inaudible) >> Well, I'll just call you a Cloud guru, Cloud influencer. You've been great, friend of theCUBE. Really powerful on social. You share a lot of content. You're digging into all the trends. Supercloud is a thing, it's getting a lot of traction. We introduced that concept last reinvent. We were riffing before that. As we kind of were seeing the structural change that is now Supercloud, it really is kind of the destination or outcome of what we're seeing with hybrid cloud as a steady state into the what's now, they call multicloud, which is kind of awkward. It feels like it's default. Like multicloud, multi-vendor, but Supercloud has much more of a comprehensive abstraction around it. What's your thoughts? >> As you said, as Dave says that too, the Supercloud has that abstraction built into it. It's built on top of cloud, right? So it's being built on top of the CapEx which is being spent by likes of AWS and Azure and Google Cloud, and many others, right? So it's leveraging that infrastructure and building software stack on top of that, which is a platform. I see that as a platform being built on top of infrastructure as code. It's another platform which is not native to the cloud providers. So it's like a kind of cross-Cloud platform. That's what I said. >> Yeah, VMware calls it that cloud-cross cloud. I'm not a big fan of the name but I get what you're saying. We had a segment on earlier with Adrian Cockcroft, Laurie McVety and Chris Wolf, all part of the Cloud RRT like ourselves, and you've involved in Cloud from day one. Remember the OpenStack days Early Cloud, AWS, when they started we saw the trajectory and we saw the change. And I think the OpenStack in those early days were tell signs because you saw the movement of API first but Amazon just grew so fast. And then Azure now is catching up, their CapEx is so large that companies like Snowflake's like, "Why should I build my own? "I just sit on top of AWS, "move fast on one native cloud, then figure it out." Seems to be one of the playbooks of the Supercloud. >> Yeah, that is true. And there are reasons behind that. And I think number one reason is the skills gravity. What I call it, the developers and/or operators are trained on one set of APIs. And I've said that many times, to out compete your competition you have to out educate the market. And we know which cloud has done that. We know what traditional vendor has done that, in '90s it was Microsoft, they had VBS number one language and they were winning. So in the cloud era, it's AWS, their marketing efforts, their go-to market strategy, the micro nature of the releasing the micro sort of features, if you will, almost every week there's a new feature. So they have got it. And other two are trying to mimic that and they're having low trouble light. >> Yeah and I think GCP has been struggling compared to the three and native cloud on native as you're right, completely successful. As you're caught up and you see the Microsoft, I think is a a great selling point around multiple clouds. And the question that's on the table here is do you stay with the native cloud or you jump right to multicloud? Now multicloud by default is kind of what I see happening. We've been debating this, I'd love to get your thoughts because, Microsoft has a huge install base. They've converted to Office 365. They even throw SQL databases in there to kind of give it a little extra bump on the earnings but I've been super critical on their numbers. I think their shares are, there's clearly overstating their share, in my opinion, compared to AWS is a need of cloud, Azure though is catching up. So you have customers that are happy with Microsoft, that are going to run their apps on Azure. So if a customer has Azure and Microsoft that's technically multiple clouds. >> Yeah, true. >> And it's not a strategy, it's just an outcome. >> Yeah, I see Microsoft cloud as friendly to the internal developers. Internal developers of enterprises. but AWS is a lot more ISV friendly which is the software shops friendly. So that's what they do. They just build software and give it to somebody else. But if you're in-house developer and you have been a Microsoft shop for a long time, which enterprise haven't been that, right? So Microsoft is well entrenched into the enterprise. We know that, right? >> Yeah. >> For a long time. >> Yeah and the old joke was developers love code and just go with a lock in and then ops people don't want lock in because they want choice. So you have the DevOps movement that's been successful and they get DevSecOps. The real focus to me, I think, is the operating teams because the ops side is really with the pressure vis-a-vis. I want to get your reaction because we're seeing kind of the script flip. DevOps worked, infrastructure's code has worked. We don't yet see security as code yet. And you have things like cloud native services which is all developer, goodness. So I think the developers are doing fine. Give 'em a thumbs up and open source's booming. So they're shifting left, CI/CD pipeline. You have some issues around repo, monolithic repos, but devs are doing fine. It's the ops that are now have to level up because that seems to be a hotspot. What's your take? What's your reaction to that? Do you agree? And if you say you agree, why? >> Yeah, I think devs are doing fine because some of the devs are going into ops. Like the whole movement behind DevOps culture is that devs and ops is one team. The people who are building that application they're also operating that as well. But that's very foreign and few in enterprise space. We know that, right? Big companies like Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Twitter, those guys can do that. They're very tech savvy shops. But when it comes to, if you go down from there to the second tier of enterprises, they are having hard time with that. Once you create software, I've said that, I sound like a broken record here. So once you create piece of software, you want to operate it. You're not always creating it. Especially when it's inhouse software development. It's not your core sort of competency to. You're not giving that software to somebody else or they're not multiple tenants of that software. You are the only user of that software as a company, or maybe maximum to your employees and partners. But that's where it stops. So there are those differences and when it comes to ops, we have to still differentiate the ops of the big companies, which are tech companies, pure tech companies and ops of the traditional enterprise. And you are right, the ops of the traditional enterprise are having tough time to cope up with the changing nature of things. And because they have to run the old traditional stacks whatever they happen to have, SAP, Oracle, financial, whatnot, right? Thousands of applications, they have to run that. And they have to learn on top of that, new scripting languages to operate the new stack, if you will. >> So for ops teams do they have to spin up operating teams for every cloud specialized tooling, there's consequences to that. >> Yeah. There's economics involved, the process, if you are learning three cloud APIs and most probably you will end up spending a lot more time and money on that. Number one, number two, there are a lot more problems which can arise from that, because of the differences in how the APIs work. The rule says if you pick one primary cloud and then you're focused on that, and most of your workloads are there, and then you go to the secondary cloud number two or three on as need basis. I think that's the right approach. >> Well, I want to get your take on something that I'm observing. And again, maybe it's because I'm old school, been around the IT block for a while. I'm observing the multi-vendors kind of as Dave calls the calisthenics, they're out in the market, trying to push their wears and convincing everyone to run their workloads on their infrastructure. multicloud to me sounds like multi-vendor. And I think there might not be a problem yet today so I want to get your reaction to my thoughts. I see the vendors pushing hard on multicloud because they don't have a native cloud. I mean, IBM ultimately will probably end up being a SaaS application on top of one of the CapEx hyperscale, some say, but I think the playbook today for customers is to stay on one native cloud, run cloud native hybrid go in on OneCloud and go fast. Then get success and then go multiple clouds. versus having a multicloud set of services out of the gate. Because if you're VMware you'd love to have cross cloud abstraction layer but that's lock in too. So what's your lock in? Success in the marketplace or vendor access? >> It's tricky actually. I've said that many times, that you don't wake up in the morning and say like, we're going to do multicloud. Nobody does that by choice. So it falls into your lab because of mostly because of what MNA is. And sometimes because of the price to performance ratio is better somewhere else for certain kind of workloads. That's like foreign few, to be honest with you. That's part of my read is, that being a developer an operator of many sort of systems, if you will. And the third tier which we talked about during the VMworld, I think 2019 that you want vendor diversity, just in case one vendor goes down or it's broken up by feds or something, and you want another vendor, maybe for price negotiation tactics, or- >> That's an op mentality. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And that's true, they want choice. They want to get locked in. >> You want choice because, and also like things can go wrong with the provider. We know that, we focus on top three cloud providers and we sort of assume that they'll be there for next 10 years or so at least. >> And what's also true is not everyone can do everything. >> Yeah, exactly. So you have to pick the provider based on all these sort of three sets of high level criteria, if you will. And I think the multicloud should be your last choice. Like you should not be gearing up for that by default but it should be by design, as Chuck said. >> Okay, so I need to ask you what does Supercloud in my opinion, look like five, 10 years out? What's the outcome of a good Supercloud structure? What's it look like? Where did it come from? How did it get there? What's your take? >> I think Supercloud is getting born in the absence of having standards around cloud. That's what it is. Because we don't have standards, we long, or we want the services at different cloud providers, Which have same APIs and there's less learning curve or almost zero learning curve for our developers and operators to learn that stuff. Snowflake is one example and VMware Stack is available at different cloud providers. That's sort of infrastructure as a service example if you will. And snowflake is a sort of data warehouse example and they're going down the stack. Well, they're trying to expand. So there are many examples like that. What was the question again? >> Is Supercloud 10 years out? What does it look like? What's the components? >> Yeah, I think the Supercloud 10 years out will expand because we will expand the software stack faster than the hardware stack and hardware stack will be expanding of course, with the custom chips and all that. There was the huge event yesterday was happening from AWS. >> Yeah, the Silicon. >> Silicon Day. And that's an eyeopening sort of movement and the whole technology consumption, if you will. >> And yeah, the differentiation with the chips with supply chain kind of herding right now, we think it's going to be a forcing function for more cloud adoption. Because if you can't buy networking gear you going to go to the cloud. >> Yeah, so Supercloud to me in 10 years, it will be bigger, better in the likes of HashiCorp. Actually, I think we need likes of HashiCorp on the infrastructure as a service side. I think they will be part of the Supercloud. They are kind of sitting on the side right now kind of a good vendor lost in transition kind of thing. That sort of thing. >> It's like Kubernetes, we'll just close out here. We'll make a statement. Is Kubernetes a developer thing or an infrastructure thing? It's an ops thing. I mean, people are coming out and saying Kubernetes is not a developer issue. >> It's ops thing. >> It's an ops thing. It's in operation, it's under the hood. So you, again, this infrastructure's a service integrating this super pass layer as Dave Vellante and Wikibon call it. >> Yeah, it's ops thing, actually, which enables developers to get that the Azure service, like you can deploy your software in sort of different format containers, and then you don't care like what VMs are those? And, but Serverless is the sort of arising as well. It was hard for a while now it's like the lull state, but I think Serverless will be better in next three to five years on. >> Well, certainly the hyperscale is like AWS and Azure and others have had great CapEx and investments. They need to stay ahead, in your opinion, final question, how do they stay ahead? 'Cause, AWS is not going to stand still nor will Azure, they're pedaling as fast as they can. Google's trying to figure out where they fit in. Are they going to be a real cloud or a software stack? Same with Oracle. To me, it's really, the big race is now with AWS and Azure's nipping at their heels. Hyperscale, what do they need to do to differentiate going forward? >> I think they are in a limbo. They, on one side, they don't want to compete with their customers who are sitting on top of them, likes of Snowflake and others, right? And VMware as well. But at the same time, they have to keep expanding and keep innovating. And they're debating within their themselves. Like, should we compete with these guys? Should we launch similar sort of features and functionality? Or should we keep it open? And what I have heard as of now that internally at AWS, especially, they're thinking about keeping it open and letting people sort of (inaudible)- >> And you see them buying some the Cerner with Oracle that bought Cerner, Amazon bought a healthcare company. I think the likes of MongoDB, Snowflake, Databricks, are perfect examples of what we'll see I think on the AWS side. Azure, I'm not so sure, they like to have a little bit more control at the top of the stack with the SaaS, but I think Databricks has been so successful open source, Snowflake, a little bit more proprietary and closed than Databricks. They're doing well is on top of data, and MongoDB has got great success. All of these things compete with AWS higher level services. So, that advantage of those companies not having the CapEx investment and then going multiple clouds on other ecosystems that's a path of customers. Stay one, go fast, get traction, then go. >> That's huge. Actually the last sort comment I want to make is that, Also, that you guys include this in the definition of Supercloud, the likes of Capital One and Soner sort of vendors, right? So they are verticals, Capital One is in this financial vertical, and then Soner which Oracle bar they are in this healthcare vertical. And remember in the beginning of the cloud and when the cloud was just getting born. We used to say that we will have the community clouds which will be serving different verticals. >> Specialty clouds. >> Specialty clouds, community clouds. And actually that is happening now at very sort of small level. But I think it will start happening at a bigger level. The Goldman Sachs and others are trying to build these services on the financial front risk management and whatnot. I think that will be- >> Well, what's interesting, which you're bringing up a great discussion. We were having discussions around these vertical clouds like Goldman Sachs Capital One, Liberty Mutual. They're going all in on one native cloud then going into multiple clouds after, but then there's also the specialty clouds around functionality, app identity, data security. So you have multiple 3D dimensional clouds here. You can have a specialty cloud just on identity. I mean, identity on Amazon is different than Azure. Huge issue. >> Yeah, I think at some point we have to distinguish these things, which are being built on top of these infrastructure as a service, in past with a platform, a service, which is very close to infrastructure service, like the lines are blurred, we have to distinguish these two things from these Superclouds. Actually, what we are calling Supercloud maybe there'll be better term, better name, but we are all industry path actually, including myself and you or everybody else. Like we tend to mix these things up. I think we have to separate these things a little bit to make things (inaudible) >> Yeah, I think that's what the super path thing's about because you think about the next generation SaaS has to be solved by innovations of the infrastructure services, to your point about HashiCorp and others. So it's not as clear as infrastructure platform, SaaS. There's going to be a lot of interplay between this levels of services. >> Yeah, we are in this flasker situation a lot of developers are lost. A lot of operators are lost in this transition and it's just like our economies right now. Like I was reading at CNBC today, and here's sort of headline that people are having hard time understanding what state the economy is in. And so same is true with our technology economy. Like we don't know what state we are in. It's kind of it's in the transition phase right now. >> Well we're definitely in a bad economy relative to the consumer market. I've said on theCUBE publicly, Dave has as well, not as aggressive. I think the tech is still in a boom. I don't think there's tech bubble at all that's bursting, I think, the digital transformation from post COVID is going to continue. And this is the first recession downturn where the hyperscalers have been in market, delivering the economic value, almost like they're pumping on all cylinders and going to the next level. Go back to 2008, Amazon web services, where were they? They were just emerging out. So the cloud economic impact has not been factored into the global GDP relationship. I think all the firms that are looking at GDP growth and tech spend as a correlation, are completely missing the boat on the fact that cloud economics and digital transformation is a big part of the new economics. So refactoring business models this is continuing and it's just the early days. >> Yeah, I have said that many times that cloud works good in the bad economy and cloud works great in the good economy. Do you know why? Because there are different type of workloads in the good economy. A lot of experimentation, innovative solutions go into the cloud. You can do experimentation that you have extra money now, but in the bad economy you don't want to spend the CapEx because don't have money. Money is expensive at that point. And then you want to keep working and you don't need (inaudible) >> I think inflation's a big factor too right now. Well, Sarbjeet, great to see you. Thanks for coming into our studio for our stage performance for Supercloud 22, this is a pilot episode that we're going to get a consortium of experts Cloud RRT like yourselves, in the conversation to discuss what the architecture is. What is a taxonomy? What are the key building blocks and what things need to be in place for Supercloud capability? Because it's clear that if without standards, without defacto standards, we're at this tipping point where if it all comes together, not all one company can do everything. Customers want choice, but they also want to go fast too. So DevOps is working. It's going the next level. We see this as Supercloud. So thank you so much for your participation. >> Thanks for having me. And I'm looking forward to listen to the other sessions (inaudible) >> We're going to take it on A stickers. We'll take it on the internet. I'm John Furrier, stay tuned for more Supercloud 22 coverage, here at the Palo Alto studios in one minute. (bright music)

>>Okay, welcome everyone to the cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John furrier, host of the cube. Got a great guest, Brian Gallagin manager of security and operations at Brookfield properties in the middle of all the sites, CSO action, a lot of security, a lot of operations to secure his environ. Brian, great to come on with you. Appreciate it. >>Thanks John. >>So talk about Brookfield properties. What's your environment look like you're in the middle of the security operations piece of it. You've got a great implementation. You got Armas doing some device management work. We've talked about that in the segment there, but broader speaking, what's your environment look like? What are some of the challenges? What's the scope and scale of the security that you're trying to manage? >>Yeah. Brookfield properties owns it's an asset management company and it owns real estate of all kinds. And we're current, we're constantly buying and selling assets. So the biggest challenge is finding out when we acquire company, what is actually in that environment and how quickly can we actually spin up our policies and protection capabilities in, in those areas? So I think uniquely from our perspective, it's a, a lot about finding what, what has been installed over the last decade, what what's secure, what's not secure, what follows our policies. And then what do we do to actually lock those down? Do, can we use the existing hardware that's in place? So we don't have to buy something new and we can use Armas policies to dictate that, or is it something that needs to be potentially removed? Because it is that critical vulnerability. There's something out there being used in the wild that we might actually have to purge that from our >>Environment, you know, facilities and companies you guys bought, and you're buying companies, you're buying assets, you're buying a lot of internet of things. You've got it, environments, you know, all kinds of challenges from, you know, identity, access management to, you know, what's connecting to your wifi networks all over the place. You got a diverse set of things. And one of the challenges in cyber right now is if you're just behind a little bit, you're gonna be vulnerable. I'm not talking about antiquated old, outdated. It we're talking about like getting it up to speed. If you're just a little bit behind you're behind the hackers and the bad guys. So the, the, the constant, you know, bar raising required is a huge challenge. What's your reaction to that? Can you scope the, the scale of this opportunity and challenge? >>Yeah, so you're, you're absolutely right. It's not only are the vulnerabilities changing, but again, our landscapes constantly changing. So being able to try to keep up with that velocity is, is a challenge with our current tool set. So when we actually onboarded with Armas about a year and a half ago, that's one of those things that we were con we were instantly given the ability to increase our visibility past our normal areas, which typically was, was our firewalls. Now we're able to see beyond the firewalls, to the switch level on, on the access points themselves a lot, a lot of guest traffic. I think we talked about in the previous segment, there's a lot of guest traffic on there trying to figure out who's doing what, and are they following the policies that are there. It also gives us the ability to double check our configurations that we have out there. We assume that we're, we're correct. And we do, you know, our annual pen test that we do, but that's something that's not necessarily enough. We, we, one at one once a year, checkin is not enough to be able to prove that the configurations we have is keeping us secure in the way that we think that, that, that we are. >>Yeah. I love the fact that you got the engineering and your title because engineering, the solutions is almost on a, a constant cadence. You have to have the re-engineering and the refactoring of the, of the, of the technology to match in as the changing landscape comes in, whether it's just physical access or more, more devices coming on the network, do you worry about like ransomware and inheriting previous environments, and, and you mentioned earlier locking things down. That's one step, what's your, what's your posture on all this? >>That that's a hundred percent. The biggest, the biggest problem is, is making sure, especially with ransomware we've, we've seen it before, making sure that when we buy an asset, that they have the capabilities to detect deter and potentially clean up in, in, in those circumstances of, of a, like a ransomware malware attack and that kind of stuff. So it's, it's definitely a, a huge concern of ours. So what we, what we're able to do now with Armas is once we buy that company, before we integrate their services with everything else that we have, we're able to actually have that kind of grace period, where they still are functioning a little bit more autonomously and not hooked into our network. We can do that due diligence that maybe we couldn't do prepurchase to see what's actually out there what's vulnerable. What needs to get changed day one, what needs to get changed six months from now, and what can maybe wait a whole sales cycle of two to three years to actually change >>Out? Yeah, Brian, you hit a really hot topic. That's not talked about much in the press or in the media. And that is, is that a lot of MNA, mergers and acquisitions happen, and there's actually ransomware waiting in the wings to actually lock that down pre post acquisition, then ransom on that asset. And so there's not a lot of due diligence or options to say, Hey, you know, make sure you make sure that they're ransomware free prior to the acquisition, not get stuck with an asset and saying that code's gone, or we are, you know, being held hostage. And this is a huge issue. >>It it's, it's all about trust by verify. You know, also like, you know, we're, we're doing surveys with these guys. We're, we're sitting down with the it teams that end up being our partners. And it it's about figuring out what, what have they done and what, what can you actually transition to? Like, maybe there's some gaps here. Maybe there's some improvements we can do. The, the other, the other key piece is making sure that our, our security tools are out there. So we, if we have an expectation that our security tools are on there before we grant them access to the greater Brookfield network, we're able to do compliance checks on things like that. Obviously vulnerability is another one that we actually haven't gotten too far into, but it's another one of those things where we can actually do compliance checks on here's the CVEs that are out there that we wanna make sure that you meet a minimum bar that you have defense against that. Or if you have devices out there that are banned per, per our policy, we're able to do those checks prior to granting greater visibility to the rest of the network. >>Yeah. You know, there's a lot of industry hype around certain things. We have a con congested market of people trying to sell you stuff right. And gonna really empathize with you there. And, you know, there's a big discussion endpoint protection. And then, you know, you mentioned trust and verify earlier, you know, there's kind of this confluence of zero trust, which kind of comes from me like no perimeter. So we gotta have a word that says zero trust. I get that. And then we look at like security supply chain in software, say open source, the word trust is coming out more and more. So, you know, what is it? Is it more trust or zero trust, trust and verified. So you're starting to see this confluence of, of posture. What's your reaction to this, this, these conversations, because I can see where you want to have trust, cuz you're moving across multiple access systems. I can see zero trust cuz trust and verify. What's your take on that? >>Yeah, I'm I, I think as a security professional, I think most of us I wanna say are in that trust, but verify boat definitely closer to the zero trust where we wanna make sure that we, we have a whole list of good policies out there. But if there's nothing to back it up, there's nothing to double check it. There's nothing to verify that you're, you're basically just hoping that it was done correctly. So that's, that's one of those things that is, is definitely huge. I think on our side is we, we trust our, our friends in it to do the right thing. We trust our customers on the business side to do the right thing. That's, that's huge for us, but having the tools to be able to say, are we actually good again without having an incident or having our pen test or pen test friends find it. That's one of those things where we don't have a lot of tools to do that. And like you said, people are always trying to sell you those tools. So being able to transition to something like ouris where we've actually seen the value right off the bat in being able to have that confidence raised that the risks that we've identified are the risks that are out there is, is huge for us. >>You know, as, as physical assets change, you, you acquire more territory, more companies, topologies change, software changes in the cloud with more iteration. I mean, you could have an always on pen test model, right? You gotta have pen test. You gotta have the slack reports. This is a challenge to move across environments. I wanna get your thoughts on the identity and access management. And the big cloud players are doing the same thing you got Amazon's Amazon, it's different from Azure and you got on-premises. So, you know, inter access. Management's great if you have an environment, but interoperability is a conversation that's happening a lot. What's your view on this because everything is changing, but you wanna lock it down and not restrict the growth and the evolution of change. What's your, what's your reaction to that? >>Yeah. With our, with our main identity management platform, that's actually freed us up to be able to give cross access access to employees that we have that maybe do work in multiple systems, or there's an application that's purchased by one group that is not purchased by another group instead of creating a whole new contract for that, we were, we're actually able to utilize that one system to be able to grant access to things that you otherwise wouldn't have. So I, I think having that in our business model where we are very segmented from an it perspective, we have multiple infrastructure teams. We have multiple development teams, multiple infrastructure or multiple networking teams. Being able to have that collaboration where you can share information a little bit better. It has been huge for us. And then from a security perspective, privilege access management, making sure that we can lock down special access, special permissions applications that shouldn't be used at certain times of the day, certain locations, whatever it might be is, is huge for us. And, and we definitely partner with, with all of our, our vendors for that very closely, for the reason that that's where a lot of these breaches happen, where one account gets hit and that that account has more privileges than it should. That's something that keeps us up at night. And again, our, our vendors that we use for identity management, our, our key partners of ours for that >>All great, great insight there, Brian, I really appreciate that final question for you. You know, as a makeup for people who are insecurity, it's kinda like sports, you know, you want to have an athlete that knows the game, you're playing football. You better know the game, you're playing baseball. You gotta know the game you're in. And cyber's one of those games it's got, got a lot going on. What is the, what is the ideal candidate coming outta school or profile? I mean, if you got a quarterback, they gotta throw the ball. They gotta have agility. If you're running back, you gotta have skills. What does the, the tech athlete look like? If you look at a person you're looking at hiring, what does that person look like? What's the makeup of their skillset. Can you share cuz there's not a lot of degrees out there for cyber. You gotta kind of learn it. It's evolving and it's a huge opportunity. What's your take. >>Yeah. And, and I would even say, you know, beyond somebody coming outta the school, somebody transitioning into the field too practical experience is key. And obviously you can't get your foot in the door before you actually have the opportunity to do that. So what are some things that you can do on your own? There are plenty of resources out there that actually give you tutorials on how to do, hacking how to do directory traversal, how to, how to do some of those small things that you can set up a lab, or maybe even there's a virtual lab that's hosted via. There's a, there's a free platforms out there that you can actually do this where you're doing virtual capture the flags. And you're able to post that. I've seen that on a couple resumes. I haven't seen it on a whole lot, but that shows that like not only do you know, you, you know, your fundamentals of it, but now you also understand the mindset of what a hacker is and whether you're gonna be blue team red team or purple team, being able to understand what a hacker can do is huge. >>So my CSO and I have had plenty of conversations where if we see any sort of practical experience, any hacking experience, any technical experience, that's gonna Trump, a lot of the other certifications that you can get. Yeah. Resumes these days. It's, it's a lot of cert chasers. And from our perspective, like that's, that's not as important. It's great to see the, the effort and, and the desire to up your game via certifications, but being able to show practical experience even on these free websites and being able to kind of link your profile to, to that is, is huge. And it's one of those things that's, you're not necessarily gonna get from a, a, you know, cybersecurity 1 0 1 class. You may actually have to go out and find some of those materials. >>Yeah. And then get, you know, you gotta get in, in the flow, so to speak and, and again, thinking like you gotta think like the enemy to beat the enemy. >>Exactly. >>Right. Brian Galligan, thanks for coming on the cube. Really appreciate your insight manager of security and operations engineering at Brookfield properties, man, you're in the center. We got a lot of things going on. You guys doing a great job. Thanks for sharing your, your insights here in the cube. I really appreciate it. >>Thanks, John. >>Okay. This is a cube conversation. I'm Jennifer with the cube. Thanks for watching.

(bright music) >> Hey everyone. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Coupa Inspire 2022. This is day two. We've been on the ground in Las Vegas at the cosmopolitan, Lisa Martin here with Kyle Rogers. Great to be talking with Coupa customers, partners all the good stuff. Kyle, you are the partner finance effectiveness at Clearsulting. - Yes. >> Welcome to the program. >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm super happy to be here. And we're really excited to be a partner with Coupa. >> Talk to me a little bit about Clearsulting, so the audience gets an understanding of what you guys are doing. >> Perfect. So I'll introduce myself first. I'm Kyle Rogers, as you mentioned, I'm a partner at the firm. A leader finds affecting this practice and we focus on a few things. So first is like general finds and accounting operating model work. The second is a lot of global based services, shared services work. So helping clients think about where their talent should sit and how those global workflows should work. And then what's really important to this week is, we've got a deep capability and procure to pay. And at a Clearsulting, we work with our clients to drive thoughtful and complex solutions for procurement and finance executives using digital as a key enabler in that. And we've got a number of practices. So we focus on finds effectiveness, which I lead. We've got enterprise performance management, risk advisory record report, and treasury. >> One of the things that is the spirit of Coupa is collaboration, the community. How does clear salty, how do you collaborate with your clients? >> Yeah, it's a great question because we think collaboration is so core to being successful in driving good outcomes. So the ways we collaborate with our clients are first, we bring deep expertise around, procure to pay functional subject matter of experts. And we compliment that with our innovation center which is a team that's focused on really staying on the forefront of digital and technical solutions and making sure we bring them together to give robust and powerful outcomes for our clients. And then lastly, and really importantly, we meet our clients where they are. They're all at different stages in their I maturity. They've got different goals and objectives. Some might be trying to have a focused really niche outcome whereas others might be transformational in nature. So we make sure that we right size our solutions to really get them where they're trying to go. >> When you're talking with customers that are maybe in the infancy of digitizing procure to pay for example, what are some of the concerns that they have? I mean, I guess these days if you're not digital, you're not very competitive. >> Right. Digital is so important to what they do. Not only to reduce costs and take in efficiencies out of the business but also when you think about, the importance of decision support, right? So tightening the cycle time between business activity and making sense of it using technology as core and fundamental to being successful. >> What are some of the trends that you're seeing in procurement especially anything top of mind the last two years? >> Yeah, so what we love about Clearsulting is we've got a broad base of clients. And when we meet and work with each of them they all have their different needs and goals. And we've been able to see some through lines across each that have started to emerge. And we've really seen three trends emerge. So the first is, there's a a big focus on operational efficiency. So moving towards a touchless world, taking cost out of the business and really moving towards exception based, system driven processes and more towards insight generation decisions important alike. And then the second is there's a real increased focus on getting total visibility into your spend management, right? So understanding who your suppliers are, what you're buying from them, how much you're spending and really understanding are they giving you the value that you thought you were going to get when you onboarded them. And that's really come to the floor through a lot of the supply chain volatility, a lot of the volatility around pricing, especially when you think look at things like commodities and just getting real your arms around what, what you're spending on. And then lastly, there's a new and diverse set of talent in the workforce today, right? And the last 10 to 20 years we've seen digitally native talent graduate into the workforce. And what their hopes and desires and needs are in the workplace are very different than the generation before them. So just giving them tools and digital technologies that will attract them but also retain them when they're here. - Right. - Yeah. And then also when you think about some of the shifts towards a more remote, remote, or hybrid model, having tools and capabilities that allow you to do that and Coupa is a great example. >> Right. Well, you talked about, different generations and the younger generations. I think there's four or five generations that are in the workforce today. >> Wow. - And so when you think of, you talked about the remoteness hybrid environment that we're still living in how everything has changed so dramatically in the last couple of years. - Yeah. >> That being touchless, contactless, paperless really became essential for so many businesses. How do you guys, what do you define as touchless? How is it different than say paperless? Is it just another the way of saying or does it actually mean something different? >> It's a little, it's different and it's not truly touchless because you still need to have, the human as part of the process, right? But when we say touchless, it's identifying those points of where is it rules based? Where can we use business logic to drive some system based decision and taking the robot out of the human as some say, and really having the humans spend their time on how can I use this information to support the business, get insights out of it and focus my time on work that's meaningful and powerful. >> Well work that's meaningful and powerful to them that will make them want to stay at their jobs but also work that allows them to be able to focus on more strategic projects for the business let the other stuff be touchless and automated where it can be. >> Right. - So that their focus is on more business critical activities or initiatives. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So when you think about things like supporting sourcing on making sure that they've got their strategic suppliers set up and their spending with the right suppliers. That is so much more valuable obvious to your time than reconciling invoice to goods receipt, right? >> You mentioned insights and visibility and visibility. I was just talking with a Coupa customer that had uncovered two billion dollars in indirect spend that they couldn't see before Coupa. And I just can't help, but think how many businesses in every industry are out there with billions in indirect spend that they literally can't see. If you can't see it, you can't be able to make the right decisions on it. Talk to me about enabling that visibility as a key outcome for your clients. >> Right, and I think that to your point it's not just that what we also see is there's not great duplicate detection. So a lot of times our customers or clients are paying their suppliers more than once for the same inventory. So getting their view on exactly what they're spending, what's paid, what's not paid, how is it impacting our supply chain? How is that balancing up against our revenue forecast? To make sure that we've got inventory moving through our supply chain at the right time. The visibility there is fundamental to being successful in the current day marketplace. >> Talk to me about now, some of your experiences working directly with Coupa clients. What are some of the things that you've been able to enable? Any stories stick out in your mind is this really articulates the value that we bring with to Coupa. >> Absolutely. So we worked with, we just wrapped up a project and the client was using some legacy ERPs. They had gone through a period of pretty significant MNA. So they have a pretty technology landscape and they wanted to find a procure to pay solution that met all of their requirements. And Coupa was the perfect fit. We helped walk them through the process and move towards a point where every single invoice had to get manually entered. Every single invoice had to get manually matched. >> Oh, wow. - Yeah. Two, to leveraging a lot of capabilities Coupa has around EDI and DCR and the supplier portal to automate a lot of that and then streamline a lot of the matching. And on the back end, just getting visibility into who you're spending your money with. As you mentioned you said two billion dollars of an indirect spend that they had no idea where that was going. That is very common >> Common? - Common. - Is it? I mean, not that amount, but the fact that you don't have, pure visible end to end spend is very common. >> Are you seeing any trends towards that, maybe changing, considering what we've all been through in the last two years when suddenly everybody went home and you couldn't get to those paper invoices or those paper POs, do you see more businesses going," help us out, we've got to digitize. We don't have a choice." >> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So it's moving suppliers onto more digital invoice submission methods whether it be the portal whether it be digital PDF sending in through common inboxes. And then moving it away from invoices not going to the manufacturing plants anymore. We've got that going to a central location. If it needs to be physical, you've got one place that houses it versus many desperate ones. >> Well, and Coupa talked a lot about that, the last couple days about essentially getting rid of the silos. - Yes. I was talking with Rob earlier today. Raja Hammoud was here as well. And talking about, there's still a lot of silos out there, that our organizations are operating under which limits their visibility and limits their potential, I think, to be competitive. >> Right. And I think what we find is procurement is historically, has been a very siloed organization. Because that's been the back of what a lot of businesses grow on as either R and D or procurement buyers. And they don't want to have a lot of control in their space. So making sure that they can have the flexibility to buy real time, maybe use a lot of institutional knowledge to overcome some process or system gaps. So there can be some challenges moving them into centralized model, but when you think about the broader business case on rationalizing your supplier base and making sure that you're getting most favorable terms with your suppliers. And then also having control over when cash goes out the door, who goes out the door too, far outweighs some of the other benefits associated with having it decentralized. >> These days, businesses in any industry don't have time to wait for tribal knowledge to be able to help determine the next direction. We are also used to everything on demand that the real time access to the data, the insights where are where's the money going? Who are we contracting with? That real time is no longer a nice thing to have for organizations. It's a requirement. >> Right. And, I think one big shift we've seen is, a lot of companies used to be organized functionally. So meaning you had finance operating a silo procurement operate in silo, IT operating a silo but that's really been flipped on its head. And then that now they're organized around end in processes. So when you look at procure to pay, you're touching a diverse set of stakeholders from sourcing, procurement, IT, treasury, legal, finance, and so on. So tribal knowledge doesn't work anymore. You have to have tight handoffs, you have to have tight orchestration and you need to have stakeholders aligned. >> How do you help customers navigate that? Because one of the things that can be challenging is, especially for maybe more historied organizations that are used to and very comfortable in their swim lanes and their silos. How do you help them from a change management perspective, be able to connect all those pieces together so that ultimately everybody's job is, able to deliver more value to the business? >> Right. So one of the things that we at Clearsulting are really good at is we understand the language of each of those stakeholder groups. So we can talk to finance, we can talk to procurement, we can talk to sourcing and IT and we understand what makes them tick, and what their objectives are and how they think. So when we work with our clients, we really make sure that we have that through line around. What's the common story here, the common message that's going to resonate with everyone because it's really important to have your stakeholders engaged and on board to have successful outcomes with Coupa or any sort of p to p transformation. >> I want to talk about talent for a second. You mentioned that a minute ago and we're all living through the great resignation. >> Yes. - I'm sure you have friends. I do too. That decided to make changes during the last couple of years. The opportunities are there, but it's important for companies to be able to retain talent. But, and part of that to your point earlier was especially for the younger generations you need to be able to have the technology and the capabilities to enable that generation to want to stay and grow within an organization. >> Right. And I think Coupa has really driven value to our client's talent strategies in a couple ways, chiefly, it's moving the robot out of a human, which I mentioned a little bit about earlier. So a lot of the activities that are repetitive, rule based, that historically we've thrown people out, to try and get it done. Now, the system can handle that. As long as you've got your processes designed accordingly, it can accommodate a lot of those exceptions. And the work that people are supporting after that is more meaningful, right? It's understanding, okay, what's valuable to the business? How can I help support decisions to do that? And what can we do around continuous improvement to continue to maximize what we're doing? And then secondly, around the great resignation, the remote or hybrid model is a key recruit recruitment mechanism. - Yes. And using Coupa, which is a SaaS solution. And one that can be orchestrated and designed globally, allows for more flexible models both from remote to in person but also allows for global flexibility, right? And global workflows. >> Global flexibility, global workflows, but also that global collaboration that I think we've we all need to have. And that's really what Coupa thrives on that community. That's really, I always say it's very symbiotic. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And Coupa being an integrated solution that as we mentioned, is end to end source to pay, allows for seamless intergration across each of your communities and each parts of your business, because then you can look at things globally as opposed to some of the siloed and more regional views that they had before. >> Right. What are some of the, the last question for you. What are some of the things that are exciting to you about what you've heard at the event the last couple of days, some of the future direction of Clearsulting. What's on your plate? >> The session yesterday morning around collaboration was really powerful to us. Because we find the collaboration with our clients is a big change agent to driving value. And then thinking about your supplier network as an ecosystem to collaborate on, is a big takeaway from us this weekend. And it's been really powerful to see everyone working together and finding creative solutions that meet everyone's needs in a global workforce. >> Yep. I agree. Kyle, thank you for joining me on the program this afternoon talking about Clearsulting, your partnership with Coupa and how you're helping those customers go touch us. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you, Lisa, it's a pleasure to be here. >> All right. Well, Kyle Rogers, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's coverage of Coupa inspire day two, coming at you from Las Vegas. (gentle music)

>>Hey, welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage of eaters reinvent 2021. So our third day wall-to-wall coverage. I'm my coach, Dave Alonzo. He we're getting all the action two sets in person. It's also a virtual hybrid events with a lot of great content online, bringing you all the fresh voices, all the knowledge, all the news and all the action and got great guests here today. As your renderer, managing director of AWS is Europe, middle east, and Africa also known as EMIA. Welcome to the cube. Welcome, >>Welcome. Thanks for coming on. Lovely to be here. >>So Europe is really hot. Middle east Africa. Great growth. The VC culture in Europe specifically has been booming this year. A lot of great action. We've done many cube gigs out there talking to folks, uh, entrepreneurship, cloud, native growth, and then for us it's global. It's awesome. So first question got to ask you is, is you're new to AWS? What brought you here? >>Yeah, no, John, thank you so much. I've been here about three and a half months now, actually. Um, so what brought me here? Um, I have been in and around the tech world since I was a baby. Um, my father was an entrepreneur. I sold fax machines and microfilm equipment in my early days. And then my career has spanned technology in some form or the other. I was at EMC when we bought VMware. Uh, I was a Colt when we did a FinTech startup joined Schneider in my background, which is industrial tech. So I guess I'm a bit of a tech nerd, although I'm not an engineer, that's for sure. The other thing is I've spent a huge part of my career advising clients. And so while I was at McKinsey on business transformation and cloud keeps coming up, especially post pandemic, huge, huge, huge enabler, right of transformation. So when I got the call from AWS, I thought here's my opportunity to finally take what companies are wrestling with, bring together a pioneer in cloud with our enterprise and start-up and SMB clients connect those dots between business and technology and make things happen. So it real magic. So that's what brought me here. And I guess the only other thing to say is I'd heard a lot of other culture, customer mash, obsession, and leadership principles. >>That's why I'm here. It's been a great success. I got to ask you too, now that your new ostium McKinsey, even seeing the front lines, all the transformation, the pandemic has really forced everybody globally to move faster. Uh, things like connect were popular in EMEA. How, how is that going out? There's at the same kind of global pressure on the digital transformation with cloud? What are you seeing out there? >>I've been traveling since I joined, uh, around 10 of the countries already. So Ben planes, trains, automobiles, and what you definitely see is massive acceleration. And I think it's around reinvention of the business. So people are adopting cloud because it's obviously there's cost reasons. There's MNA reasons. There's really increasingly more about innovating. How do I innovate my business? How do I reinvent my business? So you see that constantly. Um, and whether you're a enterprise company or you're a startup, they're all adopting cloud in different, different ways. Um, I mean, I want to tell a core to stack because it's really interesting. And Adam mentioned this in his keynote five to 15% only of workloads have moved to the cloud. So there's a tremendous runway ahead of us. Um, and the three big things on people's minds helped me become a tech company. So it doesn't matter who you are, you're retail, whether you're life sciences or healthcare. You've probably heard about the Roche, uh, work that we're doing with Roche around accelerating R and D with data, or if you're a shoes Addie desk, how do you accelerate again, your personalized experiences? So it doesn't matter who you have helped me become a tech company, give me skills, digital skills, and then help me become a more sustainable company. Those are the three big things I'm thinking of. >>So a couple of things to unpack there. So think about it. Transformation. We still have a long way to go to your point, whatever 10, 15%, depending on which numbers you look at. We've been talking a lot in the cube about the next decade around business transformation, deeper business integration, and the four smarts to digital. And the woke us up to that, accelerated that as you say, so as you travel around to customers in AMEA, what are you hearing with regard to that? I mean, many customers maybe didn't have time to plan. Now they can sit back and take what they've learned. What are you hearing? >>Yeah. And it's, it's a little bit different in different places, right? So, I mean, if you start, if you look at, uh, you know, our businesses, for example, in France, if you look at our businesses in Iberia or Italy, a lot of them are now starting they're on the, at least on the enterprise front, they are now starting to adopt cloud. So they stepping back and thinking about their overall strategy, right? And then the way that they're doing it is actually they're using data as the first trigger point. And I think that makes it easier to migrate because if you, if you look at large enterprises and if you think of the big processes that they've got and all the mainframes and everything that they need to do, if you S if you look at it as one big block, it's too difficult. But when you think about data, you can actually start to aggregate all of your data into one area and then start to analyze and unpack that. >>So I think what I'm seeing for sure is in those countries, data is the first trigger. If you go out to Israel, well that you've got all, it's really start up nation as you know, right. And then we've got more of the digital natives and they want to, you know, absorb all of the innovation that we're throwing at them. And you've heard a lot here at reinvent on some of the things, whether it's digital twins or robotics, or frankly, even using 5g private network, we've just announcement. They are adopting innovation and really taking that in. So it really does differ, but I think the one big message I would leave you with is bringing industry solutions to business is critical. So rather than just talking it and technology, we've got to be able to bring some of what we've done. So for example, the Goldman Sachs financial cloud, bring that to the rest of financial services companies and the media, or if you take the work we're doing on industrials and IOT. So it's really about connecting what industry use cases with. >>What's interesting about the Goldman Dave and I were commenting. I think we coined the term, the story we wrote on Thursday last week, and then PIP was Sunday superclouds because you look at the rise of snowflake and Databricks and Goldman Sachs. You're going to start to see people building on AWS and building these super clouds because they are taking unique platform features of AWS and then sacrificing it for their needs, and then offering that as a service. So there's kind of a whole nother tier developing in the natural evolution of clouds. So the partners are on fire right now because the creativity, the market opportunities are there to be captured. So you're seeing this opportunity recognition, opportunity, capture vibe going on. And it's interesting. I'd love to get your thoughts on how you see that, because certainly the VCs are here in force. I did when I saw all the top Silicon valley VCs here, um, and some European VCs are all here. They're all seeing this. >>So pick up on two things you mentioned that I think absolutely spot on. We're absolutely seeing with our partners, this integration on our platform is so important. So we talk about the power of three, which is you bring a JSI partner, you bring an ISV partner, you bring AWS, you create that power of three and you take it to our customers. And it doesn't matter which industry we are. Our partner ecosystem is so rich. The Adam mentioned, we have a hundred thousand partners around the world, and then you integrate that with marketplace. Um, and the AWS marketplace just opens the world. We have about 325,000 active customers on marketplace. So sassiphy cation integration with our platform, bringing in the GSI and the NSIs. I think that's the real power to, to, to coming back to your point on transformation on the second one, the unicorns, you know, it's interesting. >>So UK France, um, Israel, Mia, I spent a lot of time, uh, recently in Dubai and you can see it happening there. Uh, Africa, Nigeria, South Africa, I mean all across those countries, you're saying huge amount of VC funding going in towards developers, towards startups to at scale-ups more and more of a, um, our startup clients, by the way, uh, are actually going IPO. You know, initially it used to be a lot of M and a and strategic acquisitions, but they have actually bigger aspirations and they're going IPO and we've seen them through from when they were seed or pre-seed all the way to now that they are unicorns. Right? So that there's just a tremendous amount happening in EMEA. Um, and we're fueling that, you know, you know, I mean, born in the cloud is easy, right? In terms of what AWS brings to the table. >>Well, I've been sacred for years. I always talked to Andy Jassy about this. Cause he's a big sports nut. When you bring like these stadiums to certain cities that rejuvenates and Amazon regions are bringing local rejuvenation around the digital economies. And what you see with the startup culture is the ecosystems around it. And Silicon valley thrives because you have all the service providers, you have all the fear of failure goes away. There's support systems. You start to see now with AWS as ecosystem, that same ecosystem support the robustness of it. So, you know, it's classic, rising tide floats all boats kind of vibe. So, I mean, we don't really have our narrative get down on this, but we're seeing this ecosystem kind of play going on. Yeah. >>And actually it's a real virtuous circle, or we call flywheel right within AWS because a startup wants to connect to an enterprise. An enterprise wants to connect to a startup, right? A lot of our ISV partners, by the way, were startups. Now they've graduated and they're like very large. So what we are, I see our role. And by the way, this is one of the other reasons I came here is I see our role to be able to be real facilitators of these ecosystems. Right. And, you know, we've got something that we kicked off in EMEA, which I'm really proud of called our EMEA startup loft accelerator. And we launched that a web summit. And the idea is to bring startups into our space virtually and physically and help them build and help them make those connections. So I think really, I really do think, and I enterprise clients are asking us all the time, right? Who do I need to involve if I'm thinking IOT, who do I need to involve if I want to do something with data. And that's what we do. Super connectors, >>John, you mentioned the, the Goldman deal. And I think it was Adam in his keynote was talking about our customers are asking us to teach them how to essentially build a Supercloud. I mean, our words. But so with your McKinsey background, I would imagine there's real opportunities there, especially as you, I hear you talk about IMIA going around to see customers. There must be a lot of, sort of non-digital businesses that are now transforming to digital. A lot of capital needs there, but maybe you could talk about sort of how you see that playing out over the next several years in your role and AWS's role in affecting that transfer. >>Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you're right actually. And I, you know, maybe I will, from my past experience pick up on something, you know, I was in the world of industry, uh, with Schneider as an example. And, you know, we did business through the channel. Um, and a lot of our channel was not digitized. You know, you had point of sale, electrical distributors, wholesalers, et cetera. I think all of those businesses during the pandemic realized that they had to go digital and online. Right. And so they started from having one fax machine in a store. Real literally I'm not kidding nothing else to actually having to go online and be able to do click and collect and various other things. And we were able with AWS, you can spin up in minutes, right. That sort of service, right. I love the fact that you have a credit card you can get onto our cloud. >>Right. That's the whole thing. And it's about instances. John Adam talked about instances, which I think is great. How do businesses transform? And again, I think it's about unpacking the problem, right? So what we do a lot is we sit down with our customers and we actually map a migration journey with them, right? We look across their core infrastructure. We look at their SAP systems. For example, we look at what's happening in the various businesses, their e-commerce systems, that customer life cycle value management systems. I think you've got to go business by business by business use case by use case, by use case, and then help our technology enable that use case to actually digitize. And whether it's front office or back office. I think the advantages are pretty clear. It's more, I think the difficulty is not technology anymore. The difficulty is mindset, leadership, commitment, the operating model, the organizational model and skills. And so what we have to do is AWS is bringing not only our technology, but our culture of innovation and our digital innovation teams to help our clients on that journey >>Technology. Well, we really appreciate you taking the time coming on the cube. We have a couple more minutes. I do want to get into what's your agenda. Now that you're got you're in charge, got the landscape and the 20 mile stare in front of you. Cloud's booming. You got some personal passion projects. Tell us what your plans are. >>So, um, three or four things, right? Three or four, really big takeaways for me is one. I, I came here to help make sure our customers could leverage the power of the cloud. So I will not feel like my job's been done if I haven't been able to do that. So, you know, that five to 15% we talked about, we've got to go 50, 60, 70%. That that's, that's the goal, right? And why not a hundred percent at some point, right? So I think over the next few years, that's the acceleration we need to help bring in AMEA Americas already started to get there as you know, much more, and we need to drive that into me. And then eventually our APJ colleagues are going to do the same. So that's one thing. The other is we talked about partners. I really want to accelerate and expand our partner ecosystem. >>Um, we have actually a huge growth by the way, in the number of partners signing up the number of certifications they're taking, I really, really want to double down on our partners and actually do what they ask us for, which is join. Co-sell joined marketing globalization. So that's two, I think the third big thing is when you mentioned industry industry industry, we've got to bring real use cases and solutions to our customers and not only talk technology got to connect those two dots. And we have lots of examples to bring by the way. Um, and then for hire and develop the best, you know, we've got a new LP as you know, to strive to be at its best employer. I want to do that in a Mia. I want to make sure we can actually do that. We attract, we retain and we grow and we develop that. >>And the diversity has been a huge theme of this event. It's front and center in virtually every company. >>I am. I'm usually passionate about diversity. I'm proud actually that when I was back at Schneider, I launched something called the power women network. We're a network of a hundred senior women and we meet every month. I've also got a podcast out there. So if anyone's listening, it's called power. Women's speak. It is, I've done 16 over the pandemic with CEOs of women podcast, our women speak >>Or women speak oh, >>And Spotify and >>Everything else. >>And, um, you know, what I love about what we're doing is AWS on diversity and you heard Adam onstage, uh, talk to this. We've got our restock program where we really help under employed and unemployed to get a 12 week intensive course and get trained up on thought skills. And the other thing is, get it helping young girls, 12 to 15, get into stem. So lots of different things on the whole, but we need to do a lot more of course, on diversity. And I look forward to helping our clients through that as well. >>Well, we had, we had the training VP on yesterday. It's all free trainings free. >>We've got such a digital skills issue that I love that we've said 29 million people around the world, free cloud training. >>Literally the th the, the gap there between earnings with cloud certification, you can be making six figures like with cloud training. So, I mean, it's really easy. It's free. It's like, it's such a great thing. >>Have you seen the YouTube video on Charlotte Wilkins? Donald's fast food. She changed her mind. She wanted to take Korea. She now has a tech career as a result of being part of restock. Awesome. >>Oh, really appreciate. You got a lot of energy and love, love the podcast. I'm subscribing. I'm going to listen. We love doing the podcast as well. So thanks for coming on the >>Queue. Thank you so much for having me >>Good luck on anemia and your plans. Thank you. Okay. Cube. You're watching the cube, the leader in global tech coverage. We go to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John furrier with Dave, a lot to here at re-invent physical event in person hybrid event as well. Thanks for watching.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome to a CUBE conversation. Always love when we can dig into practitioner discussions, and one of the editorial themes I've been really looking into in 2020 has been discussion of server lists. So really excited to welcome to the program, Dave Anderson, he is director of technology at Liberty Mutual, coming to me from Ireland. Dave, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu, delighted to be here. >> All right, so I think most of our audience is probably familiar with Liberty Mutual. You work in the software group, Liberty IT, as part of Liberty Mutual. If you could just start us off, give us a little bit about your background, and your group's role inside the organization. >> Sure, Liberty IT started 20 years ago as really sort of an internal software host. Part of the Liberty Mutual group, we're part of Liberty Mutual Technologies. So we kind of work across all the markets in Liberty Mutual and all the kind of global locations. My role as director of technology is really think about what's the technical direction of Liberty IT? I can lead the architects with my group and really thinking about global architecture of Liberty Mutual and how can we provide business value in the mission going forward. >> Excellent, so Dave I guess what is the just kind of overall business and IT relationship? When I think of companies like yours, usually MNA comes in their growth expansions and digital transformation's been one of those buzzword discussions. But absolutely you need to be close to your customers there's lots of services that you need to provide online. How are some of those overall dynamic impacting how IT is supporting the business? >> That's a great question Stu. I mean technology has always been a key differentiator in Liberty Mutual. Even as my group was setup, like I said 20 years ago. It was always seen as a differentiator as something that we can be very good at. We've always been quite close to be in the cutting edge of technology. Many companies would say, "We're not an insurance company, we're a technology company that sells insurance." We are an insurance company, that's very important but we also need to understand that using the latest technology i.e. the cloud providers, really helps us deliver value to our business partners and customers. It is critical that we have a very tight partnership with our business partner. >> Excellent so yeah 20 years, a lot has changed in that time. Give us a little bit if you can, share a snapshot of where you are kind of in the cloud discussion. And what are the relationships between kind of the infrastructure side of the team and the development side of the team? And excepting that'll lead us forward to the server discussion. >> Sure I mean I joined Liberty about 12 years ago, 13 years ago and I actually started in one of the digital channels, that existence of digital channels. And probably almost 10 years ago our CEO James McGlannan quite a visionary, started kind of pressing the public cloud agenda and we started discussing public cloud as a potential future. It was a really exciting time. Cause I think the infrastructure development we all are in, gosh what's the possibilities of public cloud. And as you know the cloud itself it probably changes every year, it's redefined, there's new capabilities. I'm not sure we could envisage where we are today back when we started that conversation. Like every large enterprise, the initial conversation's around how do we enable this? How do we make this safe? How do we protect our data? All the usual kind of questions you would have. But in a way we kind of really joined together the very different departments. We thought, well how do we move the enterprise forward? And as well I mean we want to get a global capability for cloud was very important. And bringing up the velocity that we can deliver value quickly to our business partners. We didn't do it for technology's sake we did it to contribute real value for the business. And one of the really interesting things that we talked about is we shied away from counting how many virtual machines do we have in the cloud. That wasn't really a good metric for us. How are we delivering value to your business partners? That was kind of the metric that we chased and continue to chase. >> Well that's excellent how you kind of laid that out. I'm wondering if you could help extend that and bring us into where serverless fit into that discussion. I loved how you say it's not about number of VM's or the new shiny thing. So, what was it that led to your first use of serverless? And bring us a little bit along that journey that you've been going through. >> Sure, well one of the things that I've always found critical working in technology is that curiosity. But in a search for what's next. So, within micro IOS charts my people will say, "Where do we need to get to? What is 3 to 5 years out?" And we've a lot of really fantastic peers right across Liberty Mutual. Bright, open minded, they can think ahead. So one of my team was at I think it was re:Invent in I think it was 2013, where the launched Lambda for 2014. And each my crew were excited. They can build their first small application. It was actually a document generation. I think they were using some propriety systems. So they built a document generation solution. I couldn't believe the amount of ROM cost that was saved. It probably knocked something like 97% off the cost. Couldn't believe it. And we started saying, "Wow this is potential." But back then, again 5 or 6 years ago the stack was very immature. There was a lot of things you needed to figure out. Like the observability, the developer environment. There's a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't quite right. So it's something that we shared to our peers across the organization. We talked about it. We really started to kind of think, "Well this is interesting, this idea of serverless or manage servers." It started to really change how we thought and it really started to make the concept of a cloud native application very real. Cause we started to think of cloud native architecture loaded into application architecture. And that started to really flip how we thought. So it's just been a real journey these past couple of years. And a big thing for me is we started with engineers thinking of cloud as a mindset not necessarily as a platform. That opened the door to a lot of possibilities. >> Yeah, that's really interesting that you said that. Often times we say cloud is an operational model not a physical location. Are you using multiple clouds today? >> Yes, we probably tend to have a multi cloud strategy. And really to be very clear, serverless for us it's not just functions of service. Its not saying, "We're just using kind of something like Lambda." It's really about that idea using managed service. Thinking about evolution of architecture. How can we kind of try and cut out anything that is actually not differentiating? There's a great term which I always like is the stack policy is sometimes a technology companies we get obsessed by the stack. We think that the piece near the customer is quite easy. But think from the technology perspective we need to think about, we can deliver the most value by making the customer experience kind of best. And it can be even ramp the stack from whoever we need. >> Yeah, no, its a fascinating discussion. I've seen even today. You say serverless functions as a service. A lot of it is I don't want the developer to have to think about those underlying layer. Which reminds me of the discussion we've been having about platform as a service for more than a decade but PaaS was supposed to be platform independent. So I could have my code where ever it goes. Serverless today, right now we've talked about Lambda, Amazon there's certain things that I could only do on Amazon. There are discussions and working groups and the cloud data computing foundation. Working on how we can do serverless functions as a service that could expand between multiple clouds or use the same sort of code. So how do you look at that space? You talk about cloud native. How do you make sure that you're leveraging the technologies of the specific cloud but I guess I'll throw out not being locked into any one provider? >> I think about it for me it starts with the empowerment of the engineering team. We talk about a serverless first strategy that means that we've got the capability to build anything you need to. But to rent where you can. We had a fascinating story one of our best stories is a company called Workgrid. Workgrid Software is one of the companies that we spun out of Liberty Mutual. That was a project that we had an internal digital assistant that we built with some of our teams, it'd be back 4, 5 years ago. And our CEO James McGlannan decided to fund that as a kind of a startup. They broke off around 3 years ago and that initial team had 4 people in that engineering team. So they kind of decided that they would be serverless first in their approach. They didn't have time to think about operability or rights for portability. They had to realize business value really quickly. So they took a evolutionary architectural approach which meant they kept incrementing and iterating delivering value where possible. What's the next best thing that they can build to deliver value to the customer? So when you think in that regard, if you ever come to an Amazon of a grid, no one way doors, keep the two way doors. Don't lock yourself into anything. Make decisions that you can always build upon. So with that kind of constant iterative work our teams and that's serverless first strategy. It means that when you do rent the service if you need to change to another service it's just a matter of if you've your boundaries set up practically, it's very easy to get out of that. You dig yourself in deep to something, that's the difference. So I think there's an engineering mindset and culture that we certainly have proudness in our teams. But they kind of go fast, focus on business value and try and be sort cloud native in their outlook. >> Excellent, yeah, I just heard Andy Jassy in the AWS Summit online talking about those one way door. So sounds like from your standpoint, serverless is a two-way door for architecting in your mindset? >> Absolutely, I mean I think really for me it brings architecture back into the team. It's one of the really nice things is if your team use managed services that focus is on business value. If our infrastructure is set up to support that type of team then you have minimal hand offs within the team. Through the single team, its their job to create value, engineer the solution, make sure the security is good enough, build the operation, the visibility it's all contained within one team. We get a huge responsibility from that one team. As an engineer that is super powerful, super huge autonomy. So we can talk with the serverless engineer and for me it's been absolutely fascinating to see teams come into this environment and once they understand that event driven way of creating their systems. And I use the words systems rather than applications to create event driven systems they're constantly building upon. It's just fascinating to see where they go. You start to see the creativity and innovation of the engineers. So its truly unbelievable to watch. They're really very cool. >> Dave, I'm curious when you look at the application portfolio that your team manages, how do you decide what goes serverless? Is it new development all goes serverless? Has there been a migration? How do you look at the overall application portfolio that you have? >> It kind of depends I suppose on, I'm not going to sit here and say that we're going to refactor everything to serverless. I think when you do a migration there's usually six or seven paths you can go down and you do what's best for the business. But for new development, it's definitely interesting we haven't found many used cases that are really a bad fit. It's a spectrum we may decide what different servers to use. We built a system last year which was absolutely fascinating to see. It's like a a financial aggregation system where we do a lot of our accounting. So it was kind of serverless ETL, we're trying to do like an end of month batch system to detect a lot accounts from different countries and kind of pipe them into a kind of general ledger. Not something I would've thought about for serverless, to be honest. But then when you think about it and some of our engineering leads they have put this together. They can design this fantastic system using serverless workflows. Cause you're taking lots of various different types of data orchestrated in a single destination. And we put live in that this year and I think one of the monthly ends that they recently ran I think they ran something like 100 million transactions. Relatively low cost and of course being a month end system the rest of the months there's zero cost. You don't pay for idle. We only actually pay for wireless roaming in that month end process for maybe like FDRs or something. >> Dave, you talked about the early days 2014 when Lambda was announced, re:Invent, when you first started using it in the first year or so. There's the maturity of that ecosystem solutions set. Where do you see things now? What's working well? What's on your wishlist? Kind of mature or increase overall functionality to help? >> I think that the developer environment and developer experience is a big part. One of the key messages in trying to kind of get into our culture is code is a liability. It's not an asset. If you have a bunch of engineers writing lots of code that in fact is a liability. There's no business asset in that. The asset is in the system that you create. Trying to get engineers into the mindset to write less code and they actually engineer systems. So one of the things we've been trying to do is maybe using patterns as building blocks. People became kind of like a Lego building block way of creating their systems. Piecing somethings like CDK code development kit patterns. Using the world architect process to make sure that teams are looking after their cost, their security, their performance, their liability, and their kind of optimizations. Some of those things are really important in that whole ownership of an operational view of their systems. And also even things like observability. When you create a system with a lot of events laying around it starts getting complex. But then if you do it correctly you can start to layer on well, what better insights can we build on top of the system? So it's really opening up teams a different way of working. And then of course there's lots of operational challenges when you get into more complex environment. So as we often say, it's not easier, different, built difficulty building systems, but it's different, that's what's definitely easier but better. >> All right, how about anything that you're looking out towards the future? You talked about the early days when you look at these and while you're not necessarily throwing the latest shiny thing into production, there's that curiosity. So what's exciting you now? Anything else kind of looking forward that you prepare? >> I think one of the fantastic success stories we've had is with a project we call Virtual Assistant. And really to answer your question, its about how teams can properly work at MVP. So, one of the things that we really find fascinating is when you put a good engineering team. And I mean a team who you're really solid engineers you then layer on the cloud and security best practices and verification. We then put them in a coded serverless environment with real business problem. They then create a MVP. You're virtual assistant in, raises an MVP. So if you call into a call center and you have a fairly straightforward request, like if you have an auto claim you might say, "Well when can I pick up my ramp bill?" If you already done your claim. We have an NLP a natural language assistant that can help you with that conversation. So when you start with an MVP system like that you can start them off at a fairly small traffic, until you actually tune that until it's kind of perfect. And then you gradually scale up and add on other data driven potential AI services, integrations to that. So I think when you start to take the MVP approach, and have a very, very novel solution see what that's like in the wild and then start to scale out. We scale that system for taking maybe 30 calls maybe taking about a quarter on your calls. It's fantastic how you can start to scale these system up. Well I think what I'm really looking for is more kind of support to see how we can you know, it's the art of the possible. How can we use this skillset and this serverless mindset to create really fascinating business applications. Because when you get under that kind of creative conversation with business partners, I mean they don't want to hear about Lambda or events or observability. They want to say, "Well, what can I do with AI? What can I do with Voice, what can I do with Vision?" So we start to open up really fantastic conversations like that. So I'd like to see more of that, but in a creative product development. >> Excellent, well yeah Dave, so important that you brought back as to how IT in the business. Working together, it's not about the technical widget or knobs or anything. But the services and the value that ultimately you can provide for the business and the impact that has on your ultimate end customer. All right, Dave, thanks so much. Real pleasure having a chat with you. >> Thanks Stu really appreciate it, thank you. >> All right, be sure to check out theCUBE.net. Lots of backgrounds, if you go hit the search, you can actually type serverless, find out more about what we've been covering as well as what events we will be at in the future. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCube. (gentle music)

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019 brought to you by UI path. >>Hello everyone and welcome to the cubes live coverage of UI path forward here at the Bellagio. I'm your host hosting alongside of Dave Volante. David's so great to be here with you. I'm so excited to get into this. See Rebecca, so we were, we would use came from the keynote. A lot of high profile UI path executives and important customers were on there too, but then this is the message is it's time to reboot work. It's time to reboot your business, transformed the customer experience, transform the employee experience. I'm wondering as someone who spent a lot of time at these kinds of conferences, and here's a lot of this, these, this kind of messaging, especially in this age of digital transformation, how compelling do you find this value proposition, this, this idea that RPA, robotics, processing automation can do these things? >>The first thing I would mention, Rebecca, is to me it's all about the customers. And you know, it's rare that you see a tech show start with the customers to actually do in the intro. I've seen it before. Nutanix actually does it at his shows, but it's, but it's quite rare because you know, the vendors want to put their message out, they want to control everything, and so they're very, very cautious about that. But, so we had three customers up on stage today doing the intro, which I thought was kind of cool. Tech shows, you know, a lot of smoke, a lot of mirrors and so forth. So you have to try to squint through that. I would say this, it's very clear that the age of automation is here. You know, people have been always concerned about automation for good reason. They're afraid that automation is gonna take away their jobs. >>Having said that, machines have always replace humans. We've talked about this a lot on the cube, but this is the first time in history that machines are replacing humans with cognitive tasks. So that's got to be scaring people a little bit. But when you come back and answer your question, when you talk to customers, they're really happy about software robots because they're doing, they're automating mundane tasks that these folks don't want to do on a day to day basis and they want to do other things. They want to get their weekends back. They don't want to just manually enter data from spreadsheets into applications and back and forth. And so from that standpoint, I think it is real and it is unique. You know, the big question is how much of this is transformational and is it really a path to AI something that UI path and others are really pointing towards and we're going to explore that, >>right? I mean in what you were just saying too is that that that the company's pitch is that we are freeing people. We are liberating them from the mundane, from the drudgery, from the data entry. And as you, as you pointed out, rightfully, a lot of the customers are saying, Oh no, it's giving our time. It's giving our employees time back to focus on the higher level tasks, the more creative aspects of their job. But, but I wonder if it is in fact a w what it really is doing. Two jobs. I mean I think that there was a really telling line in that Forbes profile of uh, Daniel Dina's who is the, the CEO of this company is founder of this company. The first ever bought billionaire exactly. Um, where it was an MIT professor quoted saying, you know, we always say to the companies that we say, give, give us your data and we'll tell you if it is in fact, uh, having this job killing effect. And he said, the companies don't want to give, give that up. >>Right? So now just look at the why is Daniel didn't as a billionaire, it will here, here, here's why. >>Yeah, walk, walk us through this. >>So UI path is up to 3,400 employees. 34 50 is the actual number. Now back in 2017, two years ago, this company did $25 million in annual recurring revenue. Now, ARR is a metric that's very important because you know, even though you book, let's say you book a $12,000 deal, you recognize that $1,000 a month over the 12 month period. So ARR is a very really important metric. So 25 million in 2017 my sources indicate that they'll do over 300 million this year in ARR. So we're talking about a 12 X plus increase in a two year period. They've raised $1 billion. One of their key competitors, automation anywhere has raised similar amounts of money. So they're talking about a couple of billion dollars raised just in the last couple of years. UI past valuation in March was $7 billion. So at that kind of back of napkin, and we're talking about a $10 billion valuation, Daniel obviously owns a lot of that. >>So 20% yeah. So it's, it's pretty substantial in terms of the market impact. Now valuations, as you all know, it's a fleeting metric, right? It comes in, it goes, but so the, but the landscape is very strong right now. It's really interesting to see how much customers are glomming onto this automation tailwind. The other comment I would make is let's lay out the sort of competitive landscape. UI path has gone from kind of a clear third in the marketplace to clear number one. I mean they're kind of separating from the pack, but there are others automation anywhere, blue prism and there are a number of legacy customers as well >>that that's what I wanted to ask you too, is that we have seen a few Microsoft and Google of course are, are, are partnered in their, in their customers, but they also are moving into this area themselves. So I mean will you will let UI path be able to maintain its competitive position as these very established and frankly very smart companies move into this area. Safety's >>another one. SAP bought an RPA company. It's a good question, but, so if you look at, let me start with this sort of underlying trend. If you look at the spending data, so we have access to the enterprise technology, research spending data and it shows the entire space is gaining share relative to other technology initiatives. So when you look at the data for UI path automation, anywhere blue prism, even legacy process automation companies like Pega systems, they're all actually from a spending standpoint attracting a lot of attention. So it's this rising tide lifts all ships. It's still somewhat early in terms of this next generation RPA if you will, you I-PASS advantage is simplicity. They are totally focused on this. You see this all the time. Do we go best of breed or do we go with a suite? So if Oracle comes up with an RPA solution, they throw it in for free, you know, does a customer take that? >>I think it comes down to what the business value is and that's something we're going to explore. It's not uncommon in detect industry that there's a first mover advantage or maybe it's a second mover advantage. You know, Facebook wasn't really first mover, but the one who really gets it right is kind of a winner take most. And so that's where a UI path is going like crazy right now. Trying to scale the company, raise a bunch of money. We saw this week a bunch of bankers sort of sniffing around. All the bankers are here cause they want their business. So I would expect there's some kind of IPO on the horizon, which I think they need to do to be, to your point to be able to compete with the big guys. So bottom line is they have to do it on a better product, more openness, moving faster and getting to scale. And I think they'll be able to reach escape velocity. I don't know if there's enough room for the big three. I would expect that given the spending climate is very good for everybody right now. I would expect within the next two to three years, some consolidation in this space. >>Well. So one of the things that you had just talked about with this next generation RPA, and that is exactly where we're going because these bots have got to become more durable, more smarter and more capable of handling complex tasks. We saw a number of new product announcements today. Oh, I might to get your thoughts and what you think about them and just whether or not they will have this transformational effect. Um, so, so yes, we have some new product announcements, some, some that democratize automation building that all you have to do is know how to run an Excel spreadsheet and you too can build an automation in your company. >>Yeah. It'll take a little bit of training though. >>I know. I think a better idea for those those demos is they should just pluck someone out of the audience and say, okay, you're going to do this. >>No, they would fail. I mean, let's say said, I remember the first time you learned Excel, I'm old enough to remember slash file, retrieve, paste, copy, whatever. You had to go through some training and we went through classes back in the eighties I think it's a similar here. I mean it's not overly complex. It's gonna have a low code theme, but you're right, UI path announced the number of new products. You know, we looked at this a couple of years ago, we went, we went out and we took the big three from the Forrester wave blue prism automation anywhere in UI path and we said, Hey, let's download them and start building some, some, some automations. While the only software we could get ahold of was UI path. Because as they say, they had kind of a simpler or more open model. The other guys were like, well, talk to a reseller is spend some money. >>And we were like, no, we just want to try it before we buy it. And we weren't able to get the other guy software. Now I think automation anywhere has made some strides in that regard in terms of simplification. You know, it's a copycat industry like the NFL. But so let's remember here we're talking about automating mundane tasks. Relatively simple automations. The customers are asking for things like more complex automations. How do we prioritize the automations? How do we figure out where, what's the best bang for the buck? How do we actually have attended bots because many of these are unintended. They'd like to have the human injected into the equation and that's pretty interesting because it brings forth this augmentation scenario that's everybody's talking about in AI and that starts to move us from sort of this tactical, I'm going to save some time on a use case specific or a technology specific automation to something that's more strategic that I can scale across my organization but right now people are saving money on this as a super hot space. As I say, all the bankers are trying to get in because they know some other ideas are coming down the road and the VCs I'm sure are gonna want the air exits. >>I want to talk to you about the leadership of this company. This is Daniel Dienes and you have interviewed him many times. Do minimun has as well. He he, he seems like a different kind of CEO. I mean, first of all, he is, he's a Romanian. Uh, he grew up, uh, behind the iron curtain. Uh, he was a professional bridge player for awhile, at least play competitive bridge player play competitive bridge and now he is a company headquartered in New York city. He still spends a lot of time in Bucharest but I'm curious to hear your thoughts about his leadership style and the kind of culture he's created at UI path and whether or not, because he's made some key hires from AWS, from Google, some, some of the more established tech players, whether or not he is, whether or not he'll be able to keep that startup culture, that startup mindset as the company becomes so much bigger. Well >>I think it's a concern and something that we want to ask about when you ask Daniel about, you know, how have you been able to do this? He'll talk about the mistakes that they made, how they sort of, they had a build it and you and they shall come mentality, which is kind of kind of old thinking these days and they sort of lucked into this RPA space. He also emphasize, emphasize as humble, and he's a very humble guy. I mean, you'll, you'll, you'll meet him I think last year he came on and you know, he's a developer. He had a tee shirt on. He's a coder right now. He's a billionaire coder. So maybe, maybe he'll, he'll dress up a little bit, but you know, maybe a fancy tee shirt, I don't know. Or maybe a collared shirt that says UI path on it. We'll see. >>But so they end, they want to move fast. They believe in openness there. They believe in transparency. I think those things worked in today's marketplace. People love the guy. I mean the customers love them. The employees love them. As you said, they're pulling people in from the hottest companies. Google, AWS. We, I got a on the shoulder today from, from a gentleman and I know from Google, he was in sales at Google. It's not me. There's no, Oh, I'm day three. And so people want to be part of this, this rocket ship. And I think it's gonna move very, very fast. Like I say, I think you're going to see some moves in the marketplace. I think you're going to see some exits and consolidations. We saw some M and a today UI path announced the acquisition of company called process gold that actually competes with a partner of UI path. So it's again, people are going to be on collision courses and they recently made another acquisition of a company called step shots and we're seeing some M and a, you know, relatively small MNA, but it's all about how can they transform from this little startup to this major player. To your point that can compete with the Microsofts and the SAP and the big whales of the world. >>And what do you think is his bigger selling point? Is it that it is transforming the employee experience, which as we know that that should not be discounted because an employee who is doing less mundane tasks able to focus on the more creative interesting parts of his or her job is a happier employee, happier your employees, more productive employee. A more productive employee means a healthier bottom line. So that's now funding to discount. Also the customer experience, as you said, which is clearly a huge top priority for this company. But, but I think the question is, is this technology now is a transformative enough? >>You know, as you asked that question, it kind of reminds me in a different way of a company that we've followed for years service now. When service now first came out, it was kind of doing what people saw as help desk, improving help desk, and they disrupted an industry and they made it better, which is kind of boring. It's kind of mundane, but actually having good it where you're not constantly down and you're not complaining and stuff's not falling through the cracks actually can be somewhat transformative. Kind of boring, but really important. And I see a similar sort of pattern here now the vision is, you know, a robot for every worker and the path to AI and we'll see. But right now the trans, the transformation is we're going to take away all this crap that you hate doing all these crap locations or mundane tasks and we're going to make your life better. >>And people workers want that and it's going to be in theory, a productivity boost as a result of that. That in and of itself, I think Rebecca can be transformative because it'll, it'll help with morale, it'll help with culture, it'll allow people to shift their emphasis on more strategic work and drive more value for the companies. And so, and I think companies that invest in RPA are, are seeing returns in terms of quality, just in terms of employee morale. You'll hear that from the customers that we talked to today. So I think in that sense it can be transformative like service now was now can it take the next step or is this really just paving the cow path? Is it just taking mundane known processes, automating them as opposed to really rethinking what process automation should look like. And that's some of the criticism of RPA and the RPA hype. And you know, we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk to customers about that. We've got analysts from HFS coming on, Kathy from Gartner's coming on. So excited to hear their perspectives as well. >>Exactly. And I, I want to reiterate that point that you're absolutely right. Their question is should we actually think about redesigning the process itself rather than automating the, the the flawed process? >>Yeah, and I mean I guess part of me says yes strategically we should be doing that, but another part of me says, look, I don't have to change anything. And I think that's the big advantage of UI path and these other players is you can basically automate what you have today. You don't have to redesign the process because process redesign is a heavy lift. So if I don't have to do a heavy lift, if I can improve what I'm doing today and it works, yeah, it's the old, if it ain't broke, why fix it, but just improve it. I think that's a very powerful, I think the big question I have is, is that like a big hit of a step function or is it really transformative? I feel like today's tech is a step function, which is important. You're going to get that step function, but I think you're going to absorb that benefit fast and then people are going to say, okay, now what? >>Another good example is virtualization. When I first saw virtualization and the ability to spin up a server, my jaw dropped and went, Oh my God, I could spin up a server in five minutes and it used to take weeks, months to spin up a server. That's game changing. Nobody talks about virtualization anymore. It was a, you know, a five year absorption of productivity for it and now it's like, yeah, I've been there, done that. That's yesterday's news. I think the same thing is going to happen with today's RPA and the big question is can they cross that strategic chasm into what the gentleman from Pepsi, the executive from Pepsi was saying, this automation fabric across the enterprise as a, as a platform for automation and artificial intelligence. That's a big leap. These guys get big plans. Daniel Dienes is a big thinker, go big or go home. So I don't, I don't have the crystal ball on that, I think, but I think there's a decent opportunity given that there's enough attention on this business right now that it, that it could be transformed. >>All right, well, hopefully we'll know more at the end of these two days. Dave, I've, I'm looking forward to getting into with you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Volante. Stay tuned for more. You're watching the cube.

>>Live from Washington DC. It's the cube covering Boomi world 19 how to bide bullying. >>Welcome to the cue of the leader in live tech coverage. Lisa Martin with John furrier live at Boomi world 2019 in DC. John and I are pleased to welcome one of our next guests, Rajiv Ahuja managing director, Deloitte consulting. Rajiv welcome to theCUBE. Thank you Lisa. So just saw the news yesterday, a partner summit, Deloitte named the 2019 innovation partner of the year. Congratulations to Deloitte on that. >>Thank you very much. We are very proud and honored to be an innovation partner with Boomi Uh, it's been a great journey with boomi. >>You are worldwide partner of the year last year. Talk to us about the Deloitte Boomi partnership, the Alliance, all the good stuff that's going on there. >>imooBSo we've been a boomi partner for a number of years now and our partnership has grown leaps and bounds over this time. Uh, we picked up Boomi as a, as an Alliance partner as years back because of the strength of their product. Phenomenal innovative product, great I-PASS platform. Uh, we love booming because of not just the features of its platform and product, but also because of the fact that it's easy to implement for our clients. Uh, it, it, it's easy to implement, uh, from a business perspective. Um, beauty of the product is that it has a lot of prebuilt integrations that it provides to our, our partners. Uh, and, and, and as a, as an Alliance partner with them. Uh, it provides by this all that we need from, in terms of training, in terms of, uh, you know, sales opportunities that we worked together with them on. >>As a management consultant and a global system integrator. You guys are, you work with a lot of big customers with big problems, big projects, broken down into smaller projects. What's the landscape look like from a customer? Digital transformation has been talked about for many, many years. People process technology. Why is Boomi doing so well? What's the, what's their secret sauce and what are the customers liking about booming? >>Excellent question. Um, so when we think about our clients right now, our clients are dealing with really business problems. They're talking about digital transformation. They're talking about, uh, cloud. They're talking about IoT, they're talking about, about, uh, how do we, how do they use AI? So those are the big problems that our clients are dealing with. Those are the big challenges and opportunities that declines have in front of them. And when our clients think of these, these opportunities and challenges are, there are three things that they need to deal with. They, they need to make sure that when they undertake these large transformations, they're able to easily integrate data that currently resides in a lot of their on-prim applications. In many of these transformation, the long pole in the tent happens to be the integration layer. That's what kind of holds back a lot of these transformation efforts. >>And Boomi is an excellent product to help them with that. A second area where clients kind of have to deal with Israeli, the speed of innovation. That's a big challenge that our clients have to deal with today. Uh, and, and, and, uh, you know, go another day is when you could bring out a new release of your product every three months, every six months. Our clients, customers, they need to see some new features every few weeks. And, and a large part about making change happen quickly is around being able to bring in the relevant data from your enterprise pretty quickly as well. And again, Boomi with its simplicity, uh, and providing an ability to simply integrate, uh, uh, products quickly. And you know, that helps with that agility as well as the speed of innovation or the number of projects increasing in companies. Because, you know, with data and agile application development, there's more projects happening. >>Do you see the numbers increasing? Can you share some insight into what that looked like? Is it a lot, is there order of magnitude? Is it changed? Is it the same game is 10, 15 years ago, but just broken down into smaller projects? One big project comes in. What's the, what's the, what's the project landscape like? >> So for us, uh, it's been, uh, a tremendous growth journey over the last 10 years. Okay. The number of projects, again driven by digital transformation efforts, cloud efforts, the number of projects, the kind of projects, the flavor of projects that is coming up. And the sheer volume of projects is around clients thinking about moving to SAS based application models, thinking about their digital transformation and then taking up more mobile as well as digital projects at this stage. Thinking about their, their uh, you know, big M and a deals at this stage. Uh, all these kind of changes within their environment and within their demands that their customers and the mining of them. That has really spiked up the level of number of projects that we see at the state. >>Are you seeing that in terms of the spike in projects similar between like an established business that might have all these silos of, of applications that don't connect versus like a, say a younger startup that might have a ton of data and they're trying to move so quickly? Are there the types of integration projects that they're needing to implement to transform? Pretty similar, >>so, so, eh, similar, but there are some unique characteristics for each of these. Uh, two uh, sort of buckets of clients I would say, or bucket of companies in a more traditional companies today. Really the need is around. Um, and I'll give you a few examples, right. Um, there is a big need among larger companies to, to move to cloud. A number of our clients have mandated that moving to cloud and taking their, their applications to the cloud is their priority number one. For a typical large sized company, their application landscape could be anywhere from about five to 600 applications in the ID portfolio to close to four to 5,000 applications. So if you look at that application landscape, the reality is that the push to the cloud at this moment of time across most of our clients, they have 15 20% of their applications in the cloud. They're using certain sass applications, they have their own custom applications that have been put on a cloud platform and then they still have a large proportion of their applications on prem as well. So that's the reality of application landscape. For our last scale clients and with this reality, the ability to integrate cloud to cloud applications, cloud two on-prem applications and on-prem to application on prem applications. That's, that's the key need for integration for our large scale clients. >>Reggie, I want to get your personal opinion on something. You've been in the industry for long time now. You seen many waves, maybe computer, client server, local area networking, inter networking, internet, web, web two. Dot. Oh, cloud cloud one. Dot. Oh, cloud 2.0 which we're in now. What is the big story in your mind, what's the most important story that in tech today in your mind and what's the most important story that isn't being told or isn't being shared? Talked enough about >>the, the big story that has been talked about and I mentioned earlier, right? Is, is multicloud that's the big story that kind of is on the surface. The big story is that ultimately everything has to be business driven. It's the customer that is demanding change from our clients. The customer is saying that they are, they want to just deal with mobile. The younger customer, which will be the customer for of tomorrow, they want to be mobile. Right? And our clients, whether it's financial services clients or retail clients or any clients, uh, in most of the industry, you know, that's where their mind is. They want to be mobile first. They want to be cloud first. So that's the big story that's being told. And every client across flawless, all all industries that we support, that's the same story that we hear at every line. Right? The second big story at our clients is, is that that, that the computational power as has gone has, has improved so much that IOT connections with IOT, that's reality now that is coming reality, that's becoming reality. The third big story at our clients is that the traditional on prem applications that run the core guts of our clients, they haven't gone away. They're here to stay for some time. Most of our clients want to transform their core applications, but, but they haven't yet spend the money to, to transform them, >>you know, and great perspective. Thank you for sharing that insight. Uh, one of the interesting things about cloud 2.0 I'm calling it cloud 2.0 cause we were kind of in cloud 2.0 world cloud one. Dot. O was compute storage scale up Amazon born in the cloud API APIs, agile grade cloud, cheap windows enterprise is hard. Multicloud hybrid cloud Coobernetti's containers, legacy infrastructure sins you mentioned. But one thing that's interesting and I'd like to get your thoughts on is that network management used to be a small white space. Then that turned into observability companies going public great solutions. So observability is now a big category. Automation is taking configuration management and turning that into a whole category around automation. Automation is a really big hot trend right now that's ultimately a data driven business driven opportunity. So observability automation, these are tell signs for cloud 2.0 what is your view on this? Someone who's been in the industry for while talking to customers as they start to think about standing up IOT or scaling up mobile automation's important. Data's important. What's your >>no, absolutely. At the end of the day it's all about data. At the end of the day, uh, when we talk about automation, right, and we're talking about end devices, we're talking about connectivity with the end devices, we're talking about our IOT and those connectivity. But at the end of the day, the heart of it is integration and bringing data that is residing either on prem, in core systems that you have all on the cloud in the courses from that you have, how do you bring that data at the forefront of your edge? A second key aspect around around cloud to auto is it's an ecosystem. Basically. It's an ecosystem place based basically not just in terms of sharing data within your walls and sharing data with your own ecosystem partners, but it's an ecosystem based play in cloud to Datto in terms of also utilizing what your ecosystem provides. So today there is really no need for a lot of our partners to kind of do a lot of lot of their compute inside. You know, when you think about AI, a lot of gold is available in the market today that you can leverage with your ecosystem players. So ecosystem players. Also another interesting aspect about cloud dude auto that often gets old. >>You talked a minute ago about you know, the, the need to have cloud to on prem integration on prem to on-prem, et cetera. And one of the things that I was reading about Boomi is, well, iPads used to be all about 10 years ago connecting on prem, sorry, the cloud to on-prem. Now it's any data source anywhere, any integration edge. You talked about that we have this as consumers, we have this demand to have everything mobile, right? Whenever, whatever it is that we want to call an Uber or maybe a CFO needs to procure some software. What, how does that influence Dillard's go to market strategy with Boomi knowing that booby is integrating on prem cloud edge? All of it? >>So great question. Uh, there are, there are really freaky, um, kind of opportunities that we see when we implement with our clients. Uh, the first big opportunity that we see is when our clients are, are taking a journey to the cloud. Uh, let's say many of our clients want to implement core SAS solution. They're implementing a net net suite solution, they're thinking of SAP S four HANA implementation on the cloud. They're thinking of both the implementation on the cloud, right? With any large SAS platform implementation, there is always need for connectivity to on-prem applications, other SAS applications at times two end devices, right? That's the point where we see a lot of our projects. That's the point where we see a lot of opportunity to help our clients using Boomi as an integration platform. Right? A second big area where we see, uh, our clients needing help is when in their life cycle there is a big event, for example, a big MNA deal, a big divestiture that that might be planning product launch or something significant, something significant. >>And at that point of time, for example, a typical divestiture deal, typically the company that is being so love at times as a part of the deal, the expectation from the buyer is that the core ID infrastructure that they're buying from the company would also be transformed as a part of the deal. And when that's the case and we have a number of examples of those where where you know as a part of the deal itself, the seller tries to modernize it infrastructure and the first thing they do is they go for a plethora of SAS applications to replace their core legacy applications and they want to integrate them very quickly. And that's another situation where we've seen a product like Boomi being very successful in helping us implement. So those are the two big use cases. And the third one is as obviously as you talked about around digital transformation, so driven by digital transformation, whether it's mobile alone or mobile along with transformations along with gain of some edge computational transformation. That's a situation where again, you know they're there, they're leading a large transformation within their organization. And a part of that is answer is making sure that from an integration perspective they standardize and that's where Boomi comes into a lot, a lot of picture as well. >>Well where do you have tons of opportunity? Tons of momentum. Thank you for joining John and me on the QB day, sharing what Deloitte and Boomi are doing together. And again, congratulations to Deloitte on the partner of innovation partner of the year. Thank you so much. Pleasure to talk with you for Regina and John furrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube from Boomi world 19 thanks for watching. Thank you very much.

>> From Boston, Massachusets, it's The Cube. Covering Actifio 2019: Data Driven, Brought to you by Actifio. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. We're here at the Intercontinental Hotel at Actifio's Data Driven conference, day one. You're watching The Cube. The leader in on-the-ground tech coverage. My name is is Dave Valante, Stu Minamin is here, so is John Ferrer, my friend Frank Gens is here, he's the Senior Vice President and Chief Analyst at IDC and Head Dot Connector. Frank, welcome to The Cube. >> Well thank you Dave. >> First time. >> First time. >> Newbie. >> Yep. >> You're going to crush it, I know. >> Be gentle. >> You know, you're awesome, I've watched you over the many years, of course, you know, you seem to get competitive, and it's like who gets the best rating? Frank always had the best ratings at the Directions conference. He's blushing but I could- >> I don't know if that's true but I'll accept it. >> I could never beat him, no matter how hard I tried. But you are a phenomenal speaker, you gave a great conversation this morning. I'm sure you drew a lot from your Directions talk, but every year you lay down this, you know, sort of, mini manifesto. You describe it as, you connect the dots, IDC, thousands of analysts. And it's your job to say okay, what does this all mean? Not in the micro, let's up-level a little bit. So, what's happening? You talked today, You know you gave your version of the wave slides. So, where are we in the waves? We are exiting the experimentation phase, and coming in to a new phase that multiplied innovation. I saw AI on there, block-chain, some other technologies. Where are we today? >> Yeah, well I think having mental models of the6 industry or any complex system is pretty important. I mean I've made a career dumbing-down a complex industry into something simple enough that I can understand, so we've done it again now with what we call the third platform. So, ten years ago seeing the whole raft of new technologies at the time were coming in that would become the foundation for the next thirty years of tech, so, that's an old story now. Cloud, mobile, social, big data, obviously IOT technologies coming in, block-chain, and so forth. So we call this general era the third platform, but we noticed a few years ago, well, we're at the threshold of kind of a major scale-up of innovation in this third platform that's very different from the last ten or twelve years, which we called the experimentation stage. Where people were using this stuff, using the cloud, using mobile, big data, to create cool things, but they were doing it in kind of a isolated way. Kind of the traditional, well I'm going to invent something and I may have a few friends help me, whereas, the promise of the cloud has been , well, if you have a lot of developers out on the cloud, that form a community, an ecosystem, think of GitHub, you know, any of the big code repositories, or the ability to have shared service as often Amazon, Cloud, or IBM, or Google, or Microsoft, the promise is there to actually bring to life what Bill Joy said, you know, in the nineties. Which was no matter how smart you are, most of the smart people in the world work for someone else. So the questions always been, well, how do I tap into all those other smart people who don't work for me? So we can feel that where we are in the industry right now is the business model of multiplied innovation or if you prefer, a network of collaborative innovation, being able to build something interesting quickly, using a lot of innovation from other people, and then adding your special sauce. But that's going to take the scale of innovation just up a couple of orders of magnitude. And the pace, of course, that goes with that, is people are innovating much more rapid clip now. So really, the full promise of a cloud-native innovation model, so we kind of feel like we're right here, which means there's lots of big changes around the technologies, around kind of the world of developers and apps, AI is changing, and of course, the industry structure itself. You know the power positions, you know, a lot of vendors have spent a lot of energy trying to protect the power positions of the last thirty years. >> Yeah so we're getting into some of that. So, but you know, everybody talks about digital transformation, and they kind of roll their eyes, like it's a big buzzword, but it's real. It's dataware at a data-driven conference. And data, you know, being at the heart of businesses means that you're seeing businesses transition industries, or traverse industries, you know, Amazon getting into groceries, Apple getting into content, Amazon as well, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, so, my question is, what's a tech company? I mean, you know, Bennyhoff says that, you know, every company's a sass company, and you're certainly seeing that, and it's got to be great for your business. >> Yeah, yeah absolutely >> Quantifying all those markets, but I mean, the market that you quantify is just it's every company now. Banks, insurance companies, grocers, you know? Everybody is a tech company. >> I think, yeah, that's a hundred percent right. It is that this is the biggest revolution in the economy, you know, for many many decades. Or you might say centuries even. Is yeah, whoever put it, was it Mark Andreson or whoever used to talk about software leading the world, we're in the middle of that. Only, software now is being delivered in the form of digital or cloud services so, you know, every company is a tech company. And of course it really raises the question, well what are tech companies? You know, they need to kind of think back about where does our value add? But it is great. It's when we look at the world of clouds, one of the first things we observed in 2007, 2008 was, well, clouds wasn't just about S3 storage clouds, or salesforce.com's softwares and service. It's a model that can be applied to any industry, any company, any offering. And of course we've seen all these startups whether it's Uber or Netflix or whoever it is, basically digital innovation in every single industry, transforming that industry. So, to me that's the exciting part is if that model of transforming industries through the use of software, through digital technology. In that kind of experimentation stage it was mainly a startup story. All those unicorns. To me the multiplied innovation chapter, it's about- (audio cuts out) finally, you know, the cities, the Procter & Gambles, the Walmarts, the John Deere's, they're finally saying hey, this cloud platform and digital innovation, if we can do that in our industry. >> Yeah, so intrapreneurship is actually, you know, starting to- >> Yeah. >> So you and I have seen a lot of psychos, we watched the you know, the mainframe wave get crushed by the micro-processor based revolution, IDC at the time spent a lot of time looking at that. >> Vacuum tubes. >> Water coolant is back. So but the industry has marched to the cadence of Moore's Law forever. Even Thomas Friedman when he talks about, you know, his stuff and he throws in Moore's Law. But no longer Moore's Law the sort of engine of innovation. There's other factors. So what's the innovation cocktail looking forward over the next ten years? You've talked about cloud, you know, we've talked about AI, what's that, you know, sandwich, the innovation sandwich look like? >> Yeah so to me I think it is the harnessing of all this flood of technologies, again, that are mainly coming off the cloud, and that parade is not stopping. Quantum, you know, lots of other technologies are coming down the pipe. But to me, you know, it is the mixture of number one the cloud, public cloud stacks being able to travel anywhere in the world. So take the cloud on the road. So it's even, I would say, not even just scale, I think of, that's almost like a mount of compute power. Which could happen inside multiple hyperscale data centers. I'm also thinking about scale in terms of the horizontal. >> Bringing that model anywhere. >> Take me out to the edge. >> Wherever your data lives. >> Take me to a Carnival cruise ship, you know, take me to, you know, an apple-powered autonomous car, or take me to a hospital or a retail store. So the public cloud stacks where all the innovation is basically happening in the industry. Jail-breaking that out so it can come, you know it's through Amazon, AWS Outpost, or Ajerstack, or Google Anthos, this movement of the cloud guys, to say we'll take public cloud innovation wherever you need it. That to me is a big part of the cocktail because that's you know, basically the public clouds have been the epicenter of most tech innovation the last three or four years, so, that's very important. I think, you know just quickly, the other piece of the puzzle is the revolution that's happening in the modularity of apps. So the micro services revolution. So, the building of new apps and the refactoring of old apps using containers, using servos technologies, you know, API lifecycle management technologies, and of course, agile development methods. Kind of getting to this kind of iterative sped up deployment model, where people might've deployed new code four times a year, they're now deploying it four times a minute. >> Yeah right. >> So to me that's- and kind of aligned with that is what I was mentioning before, that if you can apply that, kind of, rapid scale, massive volume innovation model and bring others into the party, so now you're part of a cloud-connected community of innovators. And again, that could be around a Github, or could be around a Google or Amazon, or it could be around, you know, Walmart. In a retail world. Or an Amazon in retail. Or it could be around a Proctor & Gamble, or around a Disney, digital entertainment, you know, where they're creating ecosystems of innovators, and so to me, bringing people, you know, so it's not just these technologies that enable rapid, high-volume modular innovation, but it's saying okay now plugging lots of people's brains together is just going to, I think that, here's the- >> And all the data that throws off obviously. >> Throws a ton of data, but, to me the number we use it kind of is the punchline for, well where does multiplied innovation lead? A distributed cloud, this revolution in distributing modular massive scale development, that we think the next five years, we'll see as many new apps developed and deploye6d as we saw developed and deployed in the last forty years. So five years, the next five years, versus the last forty years, and so to me that's, that is the revolution. Because, you know, when that happens that means we're going to start seeing that long tail of used cases that people could never get to, you know, all the highly verticalized used cases are going to be filled, you know we're going to finally a lot of white space has been white for decades, is going to start getting a lot of cool colors and a lot of solutions delivered to them. >> Let's talk about some of the macro stuff, I don't know the exact numbers, but it's probably three trillion, maybe it's four trillion now, big market. You talked today about the market's going two x GDP. >> Yeah. >> For the tech market, that is. Why is it that the tech market is able to grow at a rate faster than GDP? And is there a relationship between GDP and tech growth? >> Yeah, well, I think, we are still, while, you know, we've been in tech, talk about those apps developed the last forty years, we've both been there, so- >> And that includes the iPhone apps, too, so that's actually a pretty impressive number when you think about the last ten years being included in that number. >> Absolutely, but if you think about it, we are still kind of teenagers when you think about that Andreson idea of software eating the world. You know, we're just kind of on the early appetizer, you know, the sorbet is coming to clear our palates before we go to the next course. But we're not even close to the main course. And so I think when you look at the kind of, the percentage of companies and industry process that is digital, that has been highly digitized. We're still early days, so to me, I think that's why. That the kind of the steady state of how much of an industry is kind of process and data flow is based on software. I'll just make up a number, you know, we may be a third of the way to whatever the steady state is. We've got two-thirds of the way to go. So to me, that supports growth of IT investment rising at double the rate of overall. Because it's sucking in and absorbing and transforming big pieces of the existing economy, >> So given the size of the market, given that all companies are tech companies. What are your thoughts on the narrative right now? You're hearing a lot of pressure from, you know, public policy to break up big tech. And we saw, you know you and I were there when Microsoft, and I would argue, they were, you know, breaking the law. Okay, the Department of Justice did the right thing, and they put handcuffs on them. >> Yeah. >> But they never really, you know, went after the whole breakup scenario, and you hear a lot of that, a lot of the vitriol. Do you think that makes sense? To break up big tech and what would the result be? >> You don't think I'm going to step on those land mines, do you? >> Okay well I've got an opinion. >> Alright I'll give you mine then. Alright, since- >> I mean, I'll lay it out there, I just think if you break up big tech the little techs are going to get bigger. It's going to be like AT&T all over again. The other thing I would add is if you want to go after China for, you know, IP theft, okay fine, but why would you attack the AI leaders? Now, if they're breaking the law, that should not be allowed. I'm not for you know, monopolistic, you know, illegal behavior. What are your thoughts? >> Alright, you've convinced me to answer this question. >> We're having a conversation- >> Nothing like a little competitive juice going. You're totally wrong. >> Lay it out for me. >> No, I think, but this has been a recurring pattern, as you were saying, it even goes back further to you know, AT&T and people wanting to connect other people to the chiraphone, and it goes IBM mainframes, opening up to peripherals. Right, it goes back to it. Exactly. It goes back to the wheel. But it's yeah, to me it's a valid question to ask. And I think, you know, part of the story I was telling, that multiplied innovation story, and Bill Joy, Joy's Law is really about platform. Right? And so when you get aggregated portfolio of technical capabilities that allow innovation to happen. Right, so the great thing is, you know, you typically see concentration, consolidation around those platforms. But of course they give life to a lot of competition and growth on top of them. So that to me is the, that's the conundrum, because if you attack the platform, you may send us back into this kind of disaggregated, less creative- so that's the art, is to take the scalpel and figure out well, where are the appropriate boundaries for, you know, putting those walls, where if you're in this part of the industry, you can't be in this. So, to me I think one, at least reasonable way to think about it is, so for example, if you are a major cloud platform player, right, you're providing all of the AI services, the cloud services, the compute services, the block-chain services, that a lot of the sass world is using. That, somebody could argue, well, if you get too strong in the sass world, you then could be in a position to give yourself favorable position from the platform. Because everyone in the sass world is depending on the platform. So somebody might say you can't be in. You know, if you're in the sass position you'll have to separate that from the platform business. But I think to me, so that's a logical way to do it, but I think you also have to ask, well, are people actually abusing? Right, so I- >> I think it's a really good question. >> I don't think it's fair to just say well, theoretically it could be abused. If the abuse is not happening, I don't think you, it's appropriate to prophylactically, it's like go after a crime before it's committed. So I think, the other thing that is happening is, often these monopolies or power positions have been about economic power, pricing power, I think there's another dynamic happening because consumer date, people's data, the Facebook phenomenon, the Twitter and the rest, there's a lot of stuff that's not necessarily about pricing, but that's about kind of social norms and privacy that I think are at work and that we haven't really seen as big a factor, I mean obviously we've had privacy regulation is Europe with GDPR and the rest, obviously in check, but part of that's because of the social platforms, so that's another vector that is coming in. >> Well, you would like to see the government actually say okay, this is the framework, or this is what we think the law should be. I mean, part of it is okay, Facebook they have incentive to appropriate our data and they get, okay, and maybe they're not taking enough responsibility for. But I to date have not seen the evidence as we did with, you know, Microsoft wiping out, you know, Lotus, and Novel, and Word Perfect through bundling and what it did to Netscape with bundling the browser and the price practices that- I don't see that, today, maybe I'm just missing it, but- >> Yeah I think that's going to be all around, you know, online advertising, and all that, to me that's kind of the market- >> Yeah, so Google, some of the Google stuff, that's probably legit, and that's fine, they should stop that. >> But to me the bigger issue is more around privacy.6 You know, it's a social norm, it's societal, it's not an economic factor I think around Facebook and the social platforms, and I think, I don't know what the right answer is, but I think certainly government it's legitimate for those questions to be asked. >> Well maybe GDPR becomes that framework, so, they're trying to give us the hook but, I'm having too much fun. So we're going to- I don't know how closely you follow Facebook, I mean they're obviously big tech, so Facebook has this whole crypto-play, seems like they're using it for driving an ecosystem and making money. As opposed to dealing with the privacy issue. I'd like to see more on the latter than the former, perhaps, but, any thoughts on Facebook and what's going on there with their crypto-play? >> Yeah I don't study them all that much so, I am fascinated when Mark Zuckerberg was saying well now our key business now is about privacy, which I find interesting. It doesn't feel that way necessarily, as a consumer and an observer, but- >> Well you're on Facebook, I'm on Facebook, >> Yeah yeah. >> Okay so how about big IPOs, we're in the tenth year now of this huge, you know, tail-wind for tech. Obviously you have guys like Uber, Lyft going IPO,6 losing tons of money. Stocks actually haven't done that well which is kind of interesting. You saw Zoom, you know, go public, doing very well. Slack is about to go public. So there's really a rush to IPO. Your thoughts on that? Is this sustainable? Or are we kind of coming to the end here? >> Yeah so, I think in part, you know, predicting the stock market waves is a very tough thing to do, but I think one kind of secular trend is going to be relevant for these tech IPOs is what I was mentioning earlier, is that we've now had a ten, twelve year run of basically startups coming in and reinventing industries while the incumbents in the industries are basically sitting on their hands, or sleeping. So to me the next ten years, those startups are going to, not that, I mean we've seen that large companies waking up doesn't necessarily always lead to success but it feels to me like it's going to be a more competitive environment for all those startups Because the incumbents, not all of them, and maybe not even most of them, but some decent portion of them are going to wind up becoming digital giants in their own industry. So to me I think that's a different world the next ten years than the last ten. I do think one important thing, and I think around acquisitions MNA, and we saw it just the last few weeks with Google Looker and we saw Tab Low with Salesforce, is if that, the mega-cloud world of Microsoft, Ajer, and Amazon, Google. That world is clearly consolidating. There's room for three or four global players and that game is almost over. But there's another power position on top of that, which is around where did all the app, business app guys, all the suite guys, SAP, Oracle, Salesforce, Adobe, Microsoft, you name it. Where did they go? And so we see, we think- >> Service Now, now kind of getting big. >> Absolutely, so we're entering a intensive period, and I think again, the Tab Low and Looker is just an example where those companies are all stepping on the gas to become better platforms. So apps as platforms, or app portfolio as platforms, so, much more of a data play, analytics play, buying other pieces of the app portfolio, that they may not have. And basically scaling up to become the business process platforms and ecosystems there. So I think we are just at the beginning of that, so look for a lot of sass companies. >> And I wonder if Amazon could become a platform for developers to actually disrupt those traditional sass guys. It's not obvious to me how those guys get disrupted, and I'm thinking, everybody says oh is Amazon going to get into the app space? Maybe some day if they happen to do a cam expans6ion, But it seems to me that they become a platform fo6r new apps you know, your apps explosion.6 At the edge, obviously, you know, local. >> Well there's no question. I think those appcentric apps is what I'd call that competition up there and versus kind of a mega cloud. There's no question the mega cloud guys. They've already started launching like call center, contact center software, they're creeping up into that world of business apps so I don't think they're going to stop and so I think that that is a reasonable place to look is will they just start trying to create and effect suites and platforms around sass of their own. >> Startups, ecosystems like you were saying. Alright, I got to give you some rapid fire questions here, so, when do you think, or do you think, no, I'm going to say when you think, that owning and driving your own car will become the exception, rather than the norm? Buy into the autonomous vehicles hype? Or- >> I think, to me, that's a ten-year type of horizon. >> Okay, ten plus, alright. When will machines be able to make better diagnosis than than doctors? >> Well, you could argue that in some fields we're almost there, or we're there. So it's all about the scope of issue, right? So if it's reading a radiology, you know, film or image, to look for something right there, we're almost there. But for complex cancers or whatever that's going to take- >> One more dot connecting question. >> Yeah yeah. >> So do you think large retail stores will essentially disappear? >> Oh boy that's a- they certainly won't disappear, but I think they can so witness Apple and Amazon even trying to come in, so it feels that the mix is certainly shifting, right? So it feels to me that the model of retail presence, I think that will still be important. Touch, feel, look, socialize. But it feels like the days of, you know, ten thousand or five thousand store chains, it feels like that's declining in a big way. >> How about big banks? You think they'll lose control of the payment systems? >> I think they're already starting to, yeah, so, I would say that is, and they're trying to get in to compete, so I think that is on its way, no question. I think that horse is out of the barn. >> So cloud, AI, new apps, new innovation cocktails, software eating the world, everybody is a tech company. Frank Gens, great to have you. >> Dave, always great to see you. >> Alright, keep it right there buddy. You're watching The Cube, from Actifio: Data Driven nineteen. We'll be right back right after this short break. (bouncy electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego California it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live, US, 2019 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back we're here at the San Diego convention center for Cisco Live 2019 and you're watching theCUBE the worldwide leader in enterprise tech coverage helping extract the signal from the noise. I'm Stu Miniman we've had three days wall to wall coverage my co-host Dave Vellante and Lisa Martin are all in the house and I'm really excited to actually sit down one on one with one of the users at this user conference the 30th anniversary conference actually for Cisco with their users and partners over 28,000 so speaking for all of them right? We have Sebastien Morissette who's an IT architect specialist at Intact Financial Corporation come to us from beautiful Montreal Canada. >> Exactly. >> All right thank you so much for joining us so Sebastien first of all how many Cisco Lives have you been too? >> Honestly this is my first. >> Oh absolutely exciting for that, my first one I came too was actually 10 years ago I joked at the 20th anniversary they went back 20 years to have some 80's bands they had The Bangles and Devo on and now on the 30 year they moved 10 years forwards they have two great bands from the 90's Wheezer and Foo Fighters so your first time at Cisco Live give us your general impressions of the show. >> Well actually it's been very great I've had a lot of appearances I had to do as well so I got some sessions in I did some work as well so it's amazing to see how these events unfold right? Like the sheer size of this thing and how many people are involved, how many booths how many technical sessions you can have so, I was very pleased I'm here with a lot of people from my team as well from Intact so you know we get the chance to do stuff outside of the work area as well so it's interesting right? It's giving us this opportunity to really deep dive into what we love which is technology but at the same time spend some time together outside of work. >> That's awesome, we've had gorgeous weather here in San Diego hope you definitely get to see the sights before we geek out on some of the technology just give our audience a little bit about Intact and the insurance business but give us a little bit about the history of the company and core focus. >> Okay well Intact is a company that was, they grew as acquisitions with acquisitions we've typically, we were ING Canada back in, before 2010 and afterwards we were publicly traded now so we're Intact Financial Corp. Typically we're the number one PNC insurer in Canada and we've been working with different partners to build our data center 2.0 initiative which is kind of a new offering of you know modern IT services within Intact. >> Okay great and just to, your purview in the company and just the comment about the company is you know when you talk about those transformations you know MNA is something we see a lot in your industry and put some extra special challenges in place when you're doing that but tell us a little bit about what's under your role and scope as to kind of locations, people however you measure you know what, boxes or ports or whatever. >> Okay well you know typically my role is lead architect within the infrastructure and security group for North America Intact through acquisition we actually bought OneBeacon Insurance last year, so typically we now have a US presence as well in specialty insurance, specialty lines so typically whenever we're looking at different technologies we look at the skills sets that we have, we look to see what can be the better half for us to you know accelerate and be more agile in how we actually consume technology so in some cases whatever we're looking at building up these new features like I was talking for data center 2.0 it happens that some of the technologies and the skill sets we have were with Cisco which is why we are here today with the team. >> All right so Sebastien you talk about data center 2.0 and transformation there at the organizational level is it branded data center transformation does the word digital transformation come up in your discussions? >> Yeah data center 2.0 is actually kind of the project name that we've been giving this initiative for the past two years but it really is at the essence a digital transformation, what we're doing is we're typically taking training wheels to the Cloud so we're building an on-prem private Cloud offering with multi-sites so we have three sites in the scope right now and the goal is really to actually allow our business to expand into the Cloud while being in a secure on-prem environment when we get to that maturity level where we feel we're ready to actually really go into public Cloud our software engineering teams our development teams will have experienced it on-prem safely and will have a confidence level to bringing them there so it has been transformational also because we decided to push DevOps culture as far as we can from an infrastructure team so we were trying to get all the adoption from our software engineering folks to actually structure themselves, bring on DevOps team and that we can share with them so they can actually be more agile and get a lot more done without having to depend on us and spend a lot of time waiting for VM's or stuff so trying to accelerate that. >> Awesome I love that 'cause sometimes you hear okay we're going to 2.0 it's basically a fancy refresh but we're going to keep things mostly the same when I hear DevOps I know that culture and organization is something that is a key piece of that, I have to ask you without getting down into the pedantics of this, when you say a private Cloud that's in your data center we understand some of the covenants and reasons what you have but how do you determine whether, what was your guiding line as to how is this a Cloud versus just some new virtualized environment? >> I've had the chance to have great executive sponsorship from my senior vice president typically we were looking at how can we access the Cloud? The way I approached it was overhauling what we do was not the route to go what I asked him to do is say you know trust me I'll start with a clean slate and we will build a brand new landing area for Cloud native applications and new methodologies for modern IT services so typically in the end we didn't overhaul anything that we had we built a brand new sandbox for Intact to be able to work with so we went from disaster recovery to business continuity in that move we've built a three site approach because when I was looking at kind of my capex expenditure if I was building two sites to be fully resilient and be business continuity I would be spending 200% of my capital to actually build up that capacity when you go to three sites it seems awkward but you just need 50% on each site of your capacity to ensure 100% of coverage of your requirements, so in the end you're actually spending 150% of your capacity, or your capex to buy the compute, so there's an incentive there as well. So to answer your question more precisely it's very easy for us to see how it's a Cloud because we're not operating it the same way we're operating our other environment and since we started from scratch every process has been revised we haven't kept everything we had before so we had the chance to build something brand new for that specific offering that our software engineering groups were asking us to do. >> All right that's exciting stuff there when you look at these multi-site deployments I think back in my career and I worked on some of these environments, management, security and networking are absolutely critical, I hear oh okay I've got 50% in each oh my God what if a site gets isolated and I can't talk to those other two so luckily I'm guessing Cisco has something to do with your rollout, we're obviously here at Cisco Live so give us a little bit inside the architecture and especially you know what kind of Cisco pieces are you using? >> All right well you know typically the way that our story started was kind of weird the first thing we've done is we've actually went to Cisco to redesign a DMZ and we got out from Cisco Montreal team with an idea to not just change and buy ACI switches for the DMZ but actually rebuild our whole design to you know integrate ACI into the fabric and then when you start talking about firewalls or switches they tell you well with ACI you have contracts so it really started that way so we built an ACI fabric with the Cisco HyperFlex hyper-converged infrastructure as our compute layer so typically think of it as Intact is building our new version of a software defined data center. So with building that we have all the components so we have the virtualization like you spoke of earlier which is running like you know VMware on site, on top of the HyperFlex and then we have the ACI since we had three sites we topped it off with the multi-site orchestrator to be able to manage consistent policies around all of our three sites and in the end we needed to have an orchestrator to be able to deploy the content onto that and when we were looking at it early on it was Clicker when Cisco purchased Clicker we were looking at finding a Cloud management platform, so we ended up using CloudCenter which is now CloudCenter Suite and in the way we were using it, which was a little atypical from the typical way clients are using CloudCenter today we're taking it into the data center and out to the Cloud whereas when I was talking with Kip Compton earlier this week he was saying you know what sometimes our clients buy it more for the Cloud first and I was like well we have like the inverse story of exactly how we did the opposite but it works as well, so typically where we stand today I have the three sites we're able to deploy with CloudCenter we've got multi-site on top of that and the idea it really is that, I spoke about training wheels earlier well we're taking them off right? In the next couple of weeks we're starting to look into negotiations with public Cloud providers trying to move towards the public Cloud and you know there's exciting news that came out from Cisco this week while I was here about the fact that now you know they're forecasting a lot more collaboration with Microsoft and AWS and now they have all the three major Cloud providers covered with ACI Anywhere so that means all of our security that you were talking about earlier will now have a consistent policy model applied all, everywhere so to be honest I'm not too concerned about if we did a good choice a couple of years back I think we're in our sweet spot right now. >> Yeah and you're right it's a different story than we've generally heard from Cisco and some customers which is I have all of these public Cloud's and I have my data center and I'm looking for some piece to help tie it together and that the CloudCenter Suite is there so you feel you're confident with the platform that you chose and that's going to give you the flexibility as to whichever public Cloud or public Cloud you choose are you at the point there that do you know which public Cloud you're going to be on or maybe it's a little too early? >> Well to be honest you know we're keeping our options open you know we have different providers that are offered, you know the major public one there's Amazon there's Google Cloud we're not closing any options it's really a question of us to do the same secure approach that we've done right now with this offering to really go one at a time make sure that we're able to nail it down, make it secure that we get all the information back so I'm not at a possibility right now to disclose which ones we're dealing with because we're still negotiating but in the end we're not limiting ourselves we just want to be able to scale. >> Right you're confident that the Cisco solution that you choose will give you the flexibility no matter which one you use or if you use multiples or need to make switches along the way? >> Yeah. >> Question I have for you on that is when you look at multi-Cloud one of the things that are challenging for companies is how do I make sure I've got the skillsets because workloads might be portable, networks might be connected but understanding how I manage each of those environments so do you feel CloudCenter Suite's going to help you through that? You know what do you see as you look out over your roadmap as to what that's going to mean for you know your DevOps team and the people managing this environment as it spreads out to the public Cloud? >> Actually I'm feeling really confident because you know especially after seeing a couple of sessions of what Roland Acra and Kip have announced for the data center and for the Cloud piece we're seeing more and more normalization being done by Cisco to actually allow us to be confident in the fact that on prem we're doing ACI and that our policies are going to be mapped to the constructs of the different Cloud providers. So for me what it means is I don't necessarily need to become specialized in how we're going to be operating inside of a Cloud we need to make sure that we get the proper policies built into the different products you know Cisco's branding it the Anywhere right? They have the HX Anywhere the ACI Anywhere and typically that's what we like about it is I can have one consistent set of skillsets and allow the people to use it one thing I found interesting about this week and it's not necessarily to do like more promotion for Cisco is like the Cloud First ACI right? So being able to be starting with ACI in the Cloud I found that was kind of interesting because when you know how the multi-site orchestrator works means apps you build out in the Cloud you're going to be able to to pull back in through the MSO and push it back on prem or anywhere in other Clouds afterwards so I found that was very intuitive of them to go to that route of allowing us to you know transparently migrate apps between sites. >> All right so Sebastien you're using a lot of the latest and greatest from Cisco you talk about the HX the ACI the CloudCenter Suite what advice do you give to your peers out there and they say you know I've used Cisco products for a long time Cisco makes great products but you know simplicity and management across the product lines was something that you know needed some work what does the Cisco of today look like you know what's working well? What still would you like to see them progress on? >> Well you know for us one of the things that was nice like I mentioned earlier is we're typically going greenfield so I didn't have a lot of the issues that other companies might be facing if they're trying to take their brownfield and actually make it into what we've built so my first advice would be if you're able to get the executive sponsorship to build a greenfield environment there's nothing in Cloud native applications that is you know symmetric with the traditional environment of a data center, it's completely different ways of working we have one week sprints we patch everything as it comes out if an application goes into the environment it needs to be functional with that patching cycle of almost every time we're at n or n-1 so, my thing is think about applications as being the center of what you actually need and not the infrastructure, let the infrastructure be what it is because you're going to be anywhere right? So that's one of the things I would say, from what you said about Cisco and the integration you were right, we have lived a couple of items like that in the last two years and a half, however I've noticed that these new software components like CloudShare and everything not necessarily the hardware part Cisco nails hardware like it works they've been doing it for years the thing is with these software teams they're very customer driven we have access to the engineers now I mean we've had meetings with the Canadian execs Roland Acra's team we were able to get access to the developers and the teams here in the US so, every company has challenges I would be lying if I told you that even at Intact we don't have silos and we don't have issues sometimes with different teams managing together but I feel as if at least for the technologies that we're using they've done good work for us to actually help us get through that. >> Well it's interesting Sebastian you bring that up because I look at you say okay, you've got a greenfield environment awesome, we can go do some new tech, well let's throw in there the DevOps and let's change all the other pieces you're like completely overhauling your environment how much of that were there some new team members that came in as part of that or you know I look people, process and technology sounded like you were taking it all on at once, did that work well? Would you have if you looked back would you have changed some of the ordering and maybe you know gotten one piece before the other or did it help to kind of you know start brand new start fresh and get everything going? >> Well I wouldn't redo the part of starting fresh however, it helped us get really good pace and work you know it's our first agile project as an infrastructure group so all of that was great learning experience the only thing I would say is you need to make sure your organization is ready for that level of change because it's one thing to have one VP sponsorship to actually build out this type of approach but where we struggled a little bit was afterwards getting the rest of our IT organization to kind of want to get onboard. because we are building something new, the traditional environment is not disappearing and we're telling our software engineering groups here's a new area where you can play in but you know typically I'd say that it's been well received we have not had the need to build new skillsets because we're doing infrastructure as code so typically a lot of the stuff we're building we're making sure it's automated so that way it's very nice and lean and when we build a new site we have a lot of automation already built in so we can properly just deploy so lessons learned like you've asked me I'd say that typically I'd probably do much of what I did the same way, but I would work a little bit more on the people area just to make sure that the message is clearly understood that what we're building is for the future of Intact and make sure that we spend a little bit more time managing that aspect because for the technology it's fine for the time it took and everything it's fine, it's really people the change is significant to most of them and when you've been doing something for a long time and someone comes up and disrupts it's like if we were disrupting our own company right? So typically I'd say, that would be something that I would say to people manage that properly or you will have a lot more work to do inside of that initiative to actually gain everybody's momentum and get them to be behind you. >> Well Sebastien I really appreciate you walking us through all of your transformation I want to just give you the final word sounds like you've got great access to Cisco really hope you're happy with what you've done final word is to you know your expectations coming into a show like this and you know what your take aways will be from Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego? >> Well outside from the amazing weather you mean or yeah? so you know typically I like the event I've been to other events before, like I said this is my first time at Cisco but what I've seen is that Cisco's really into getting their customers to understand their technology so they're really present so I really liked how you know we were given the opportunity to do hands on labs and actually learn new technologies so typically great experience coming here and great opportunities and thanks so much for having us. >> Well Sebastien Morissette congratulations to your team at Intact and thank you so much for sharing this story. >> Thank you so much. >> All right we've got a little bit more left here of three days wall to wall coverage Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego for Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin I'm Stu Miniman and thanks as always for watching theCUBE. 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(funky music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Informatica World 2019. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Informatica World 2019. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Rebecca Knight who's on the floor getting some data, getting some reports. She's my co-host here this week. Next guest is Bruce Chizen, board member of Informatica, OG, original gangster of the tech scene. Been there, done that. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Yeah, great to see you, John. >> Big alumni. I love having you on because you're kind of, you're a historian through experience, still active in the industry, obviously, Informatica. Four years private. >> Historian, that's scary. >> You've been around the block. You've seen more waves than I have, and that's a lot. But, you know, you've done a lot of things and you've seen the waves. You've run companies, you've been on boards. You've been on Informatica board. Four years private, a lot of great things can go on. Michael Dell proved that. He took Dell Computer, which is now Dell Technologies, he took it private, and I asked him. He wanted to retool and didn't want to do the shot clock of being a public company. Filing, and sour beans and all those regulations, 'cause he knew what was coming, the wave was coming. Informatica did the same thing, so I'm expecting an IPO, or MNA big deal happening. But four years, with great product people, you're on the board. Data, our original conversation four years ago on theCUBE, hasn't changed. >> No. It's the same wave, and now everyone's jumping on the wave. >> The good thing for Informatica is, as a private company, we got to do things that we could not have done as a public company. The level of investment we made in R&D, the transition from perpetual, or on-premise, to subscription. The investment in the sales organization. Couldn't have done that as a public company 'cause the shareholders tend to be too short term focused. >> And also I will add, just to get your reaction to, is that, my observation, looking at these situations when you have smart people, the board, like yourself, and the product team. Which I've been complimentary of Informatica's, as you know. Some other critical analysis, but that's different. But, great product engineering people. When you don't have the pressure of time, you could watch things gestate and when you're early, you have an advantage. Talk about that, because that's a strategic thing, most people aren't talking about, but you an early lead on data. You've had product engineering leadership, and you had time. >> It's not as easy as you make it sound. Keep in mind, Informatica is owned by financial sponsors. Private equity. >> Yeah, there's some pressure. >> CPP. And it's up to people like myself on the board, the other independent board member, the management team, to continue to remind the investors that if we make early investments and they pay off the company will be worth more and they'll ultimately make more money and their partners will make more money. >> I made it sound like you're on the beach drinking wine. >> A great example is what Informatica did with the data catalog. That was an early investment. No one really knew whether it would pan out. Sounded good, but it required a significant investment, that came out of the pockets of our investors and we were able to convince them to do that. Another great example is CLAIRE. You know, AI is hot. Well had we not invested in CLAIRE, three, three and a half years ago, CLAIRE would not be in existence today. Couldn't have done that as a public company. >> And it gives you a little bit of a lead, again, there's just no shot clock on public. But yeah, the private executives, they're not going to let you sit around and hit the beach and clip coupons. You got to work hard. But I got to ask >> The other thing you've seen the company has gone from a great point product company, great products, to really developing a platform, and architecting a platform. Which requires a significant amount of engineering. >> I was going to ask you about that, I'm glad you jumped the gun on that. Platform is the key. Speaking of platforms, I was just at Adobe, a company you're very familiar with, they're rolling out a new platform. Platforms are now back in vogue but it's not the old way. The old way was build a platform, have a competitive advantage, lock in your nested solution in imitability. Now it's platform open, different twist. How is that different? 'Cause you've seen the platform where you got to own it, barest entry, proprietary technology, to platform that's open extensible. >> Yeah, customers have gotten smart. No customer wants to be held hostage to one individual platform. SAP being a great example. Microsoft Windows being another example. They want to make sure that if they choose one platform, they could easily migrate to another. It's one of the reasons why Informatica is in such a sweet spot, because we allow our customers to choose which Cloud infrastructure providers they want to put their workloads on. And they can use multiple Cloud infrastructure. >> I got to ask about the competition now. Not competition but co-opetition, just marketplace in general. Everybody's jumping on the same wave that you guys have been on. You go to YouTube.com/Siliconangle look up Informatica videos I've done here with the team and you four years ago. Look up some of the things we were talking about, not a lot of many people talk about data driven, hardcore analytics, next-gen. These are the kind of topics that in AI machine learning, now everyone's talking about them. What's different about Informatica as the noise level increases around some of these things? Certainly, it's pretty obvious AI is going to be hot. Multi-generational Cloud, multi-generational things can happen. Operations, AI automation. >> Yeah. >> But what's different about Informatica? What should people know about Informatica that might be unique that you can lend some insight into? >> So when I think about the competition, or the co-opetition, I put those competitors in two buckets. There's a whole slew of smaller players that have some really good point products. Fortunately for Informatica, they don't have the scale to compete. And when I say scale to compete, not just on the go to market side, but they can't afford to invest two hundred million dollars a year in research and development building a complete platform. So, even though they're kind of ankle biters and occasionally I feel like the company has to slap them around, and they're annoyances, I don't think they're a big threat. The Cloud infrastructure players, the platform guys, Google, AWS, Azure, will continue to provide data tools that are developed for their stack. They will do some things that will be good enough. The good news is Informatica does great as it relates to enterprise Cloud management. So, if an enterprise really cares about their data, and they really care about having choice in the future, and they don't want to be held hostage to any one platform, Informatica is the only game in town. >> You're one of the best at doing theCUBE. This is our tenth year, and I remember telling some NetApp people because they invested in Cloud early, too, they don't get the credit. This is another example of Informatica invested early on in Cloud. I talked to Emmett and Anil years ago, they were well down that Cloud path. So Johnny-come-lately's going to jump on the Cloud 'cause there's an advantage so props to Informatica. >> And plus it's not Cloud only. Most of the large enterprises are hybrid, they will be hybrid for many years to come. In fact, if you look at workloads today, they majority of the workloads are still on-premise. >> Scales come up a lot. You know my commentary and theCUBE, everyone who watches me knows I like to rap about I was the first to call Amazon the trillion dollar opportunity because of the scale. Scale is the new competitive advantage, I've said that. I've said open is the new lock in. Value is the new lock in is what I said. So now you've got scales. The question is how does a startup compete if scale is table stakes? Is it race for funding? Snowflakes got to three billion dollar evaluation. Are they worth three billion? We're going to analyze that in theCUBE later. But they raise almost a billion dollars in cash. Do you scale up with cash and grow? >> Great technology. It starts out with really great technology. An organization like Snowflake, great technology. Look at Databricks, great technology. So, I look at the great new startups, what makes them great is that they have an innovative technological solution that's hard to replicate. Then they get the funding, and they're able to scale. That's what it takes to be a startup. >> And that's almost the OG, original gangster, Vectra Capital model. >> That's correct. >> Agile, iterate your way to success. No craft, no scale. Just speed. Is the world going back to the old formula? >> It's going back to innovation. To technical innovation. Especially given that you have so many scale players. You can no longer just come in there as a startup. Money alone is not going to enable you to be successful. >> All right I want you to pay it forward for all the young people graduating. I just was at my daughter's Cal, Berkeley graduation yesterday. Although she wasn't in this class. Cal just graduated their inaugural first-generation class of data science. Databricks was involved in that, they donated a lot of software. They're very Cal oriented. People who graduate high school, elementary school, this is a new field. Not enough jobs. Berkeley, a leading institution, first class ever in data science. What skill gaps are out there that need to be filled that people could learn now to get ahead and get an advantage in the workforce? >> My view, John, it starts in middle school with math. If we could help our kids who are in middle school to get through algebra, studies have shown they will move on to undergrad and then many of them will move to graduate work. We've got to start early. Yeah, there's some simple fixes. Help people become coders, help people do other things. But the reality is >> If you can't get the algebra done you're not going to code. >> We have to solve the longer term problems. So when I think about jobs of the future, we've got to create people who are creative, but at the same time understand the basics. >> Math, stats, great stuff. Final question. Are you going to run a company again soon? >> So I get that question quite often. First of all, I love doing what I do today, which is kind of a lot of little stuff. I do miss running a company. But, as I've told a whole bunch of people, I have no desire to ever report to a board again. So unless I own 51% of that company, I will not be running a company. >> Well now you know the deal terms, anyone who's watching for an investment from Bruce partnering with them. Great stuff. What's missing? What's around the corner? What are people missing in the news these days in the trends? What's coming that's exciting that nobody's talking about? >> I think what's happening, and this happens each wave, there's been so much excitement about the movement from On-Premises to Cloud, about AI and machine learning, I don't think people really appreciate how early it is. That we're this much in to it and we've got a long ways to go. And the old workflows that are on-premise, the amount of advancement in artificial intelligence and machine learning has so far to go, that people need to be patient and continue to invest aggressively in what's going to transpire ten years from now, not six months from now. And then you add things like 5G, faster speed WiFi, that also is going to have this huge impact. >> Great insight, Bruce. Thanks for sharing that insight. Get the kids learning math in middle school, gateway to coding, gateway to graduate work. Next ten waves, lot of waves coming. Bruce, thanks for sharing the insight. Good to see you again. >> Thanks, John. It's a pleasure. >> CUBE coverage here in Informatica World 2019. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll be back with more after this short break. (funky music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering VMware Radio 2019. Brought to you by VMware. >> Hi, welcome to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware Radio 2019. Lisa Martin with John Furrier, in San Francisco. This is an internal R&D innovation off site that VMware does, lots of innovation going on here from engineers from all over the globe. We're pleased to welcome Joe Baguley, the CTO from EMEA, from VMware. Joe, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi. >> So we've been having some great conversations this morning about this tremendous amount of innovation, I mean the potential is massive. Not just from Radio, but from all the other innovation programs that VMware has, really speaks very strongly to the culture of innovation that VMware has had. But of course all this innovation has to be able to be harnessed to deliver what customers need. Talk to us about that, you're in the field, field CTO. What is that connection with the innovation that happens within VMware? How do customers help influence that and vice versa? >> Yeah, I think we're very unique in the structure that we've put around that to drive that innovation over the years. So my job as field CTO is, I call it sort of 50, 50. So 50% is Chief Technology Officer, which is this kind of stuff for Radio and 50% is Chief Talking Officer, which is out with our customers and presenting at conferences, et cetera. But the general remit is connecting R&D in the field. And so for eight years now I've been connecting R&D in the field at VMware, I actually did at my previous company as well. And what we've done is, we've built a series of programs over the years to do that, and one of the biggest ones is the CTO Ambassadors. And so that was, you know, you get to a point, you get to a growth size, I've been here eight years, and suddenly you need someone else to help you because I can't be everywhere. And the original role was, back in the day I was hired to scale Steve Herrod, because Steve Herrod couldn't be in Europe all the time, I was like mini Steve Herrod that could be there when needed. But then eventually I can't be in every European country and our major regions as we get bigger and bigger, and we've grown dramatically. So the CTO Ambassadors is to support that. And that's really, we've got 140 of our top customer facing techies from around the globe in this program called the Ambassadors. And they have to be customer facing, and they have to be individual contributors, so like a pre-sales manager or something doesn't count. They're a massively active community, there's a whole bunch of them here at Radio as well. And their job is really that conduit, that source of information, and also a sounding board, a much shorter range sounding board for R&D. So if R&D want to get a feel of what's going on, they don't have to ask everyone they can bounce off the Ambassadors, which is part of what we do, and that makes it easier. >> So like a filter too, they're also also filtering input from the field, packaging it up for R&D. >> Totally. Yeah, and when you're at an organization of our scale, filtering is really important. Because obviously, you can't have every customer directly talking to every engineer, it's never going to work. (laughs) >> I mean another radio project stay right there, a machine learning based champion CTO to go through all the feedback. >> Yeah, so I started my career, with my previous company doing that, I was the filter. So I'd get a hundred questions a day from various people in the field, and 99 of those I'd bounce right back because I knew the answer. But there was the one that I was like, uh. Then I'd turn around to R&D and ask them. But the great thing was that R&D knew that if I was asking then it was a real question, it wasn't the 99. So the CTO Ambassadors, and what we do in Octo Global field is really a method of scaling that. >> I want to ask you about that because that's a great example of here reputation comes in. Because your reputation is on the line if you go back and pull the fire alarm, if you will, send too many lame requests back, you're going to be lame. So you've got to kind of check, balance there. So that begs the question, how do you do the filtering for the champions that work for you? Is there a high bar? Is there a certain line? Like being a kid, you've got to be this tall to ride the roller coaster. Is there criteria? Is there certification? Take us through the filtering there. >> The Ambassador program is a rotating nomination system. So essentially there's a two year tenure. So what happens is, if you're in the field and you want to be an ambassador, which is a really prestigious thing, then you nominate yourself or get nominated and then people vote on you and you put forward your case, et cetera. Essentially it's a democratic process based on your peers and other people in the company. And then after you're allowed a maximum of two years. Sorry, two tenures so you get four years, if that makes sense, I'm not confusing you. >> John: So term limits? >> Yeah there's term limits, right, we have term limits. And after two terms you have to go out for a year to give someone else a chance because otherwise it will just glub- >> It'll turn into the US government. (laughs) >> But no, it's important to maintain freshness, maintain diversity and all those kind of things. And so it comes back to that filter piece we were talking about before. The reputation is massive, of the CTO Ambassadors. I mean when we started this six years ago as a program, most of R&D were like, who are these Ambassador guys? What value are they going to add? Now, if you're in R&D, one of the best things you can say, if you want to get something done, is what the CTO Ambassador said. I mean, literally it is, you can go and we have- >> John: The routine approach to that. Talk about how you guys add in a new category. So, for instance kubernetes, we saw this years ago when KubeCon was started, theCUBE was there present at the creation of that trend we kind of got it right away. Now Gelsinger and the team sees this as a massive traction layer. So that would be an example, where we need an Ambassador. So do you like just create one or how does that work? >> They create themselves, that's the best thing. So we have an annual conference which is in February, held in Paolo Alto where we all get together along with all the chief technologists, which is the level below me. And the principles, which the most senior field people. So literally the best of the best get together. It's about 200 plus get together for a week. And we are an hour and a half on on one with Pat for example, so Pat's there with all of us in a room. But one of the sessions we do is the shark tank, and there's two of them. One of them is, come up with your really cool, crazy, wacky ideas, and the other one is the acquisition shark tank. So there we get the MNA team, include our E-staff sit in, and the Ambassadors, as teams, will come in and present. We think we should acquire, uh because that's making a big difference. The great thing is, not nine times out of 10 but probably seven times out of 10, the E-staff are going, yeah we know about that, when actually we can't really tell you what's going on but yeah we know about them. But there's the two or three times out of 10 that people are like, oh yeah, so tell me more about them. And it might be a company that's just coming up, it might be 2013 and there's this company called Docker that no one's heard of, but the Ambassadors are shouting about Docker, and saying it's a big, you know. So there's that- >> So white space is too emerging you can see it's a telemetry, literally feedback from the field to direct management on business strategy. >> And our customers are pushing our field in directions faster than maybe R&D get pushed if you know what I mean. >> You guys deserve a lot of credit because Pat Gelsinger was just on this morning with Lisa and me, and we were talking about that. He just came back from the Sales President's club cruise, and one of the comments he said was the sales executive said, hey, who does strategy? Because everything's fitting together beautifully. Which kind of highlights how radiance this all progresses, not like magic, there's a process here, and this kind of points to your job is to fit that pieces in, is that correct? >> Yeah. People always say, as a CTO do you all sit down once a week and talk about strategy? And that's not what you do. There's a hive mind, there's a continual interaction, there's conference calls, there's phone calls, there's meetings, there's get togethers of various different types, groups, and levels. And what happens is there's themes that emerge over that. And so my role specifically, as the EMEA CTO is to represent Europe, Middle East, and Africa's voice in those conversations. And maybe the nuances that we might have around particular product requirements or whatever, to remind people that maybe sit in a bubble in Silicon Valley. >> John: I'm sure you raised your hand on privacy and GDPR? (laughs) >> Just a couple of times, yeah. Yeah, now and again. >> The canary in the coal mine is a really big point that helps companies, if they're not listening to the signals coming in. >> Well you do, and you see a lot. There's a lot of the tech companies that I see, it's often defined as the three bubbles, or your Massimo Re Ferrè, who's now at Amazon. When he was here, did this fantastic blog post talking about the first bubble is Silicon Valley, and the second bubble is North America, and the third bubble is everywhere else. And so you kind of watch these things emerge. And my job is to jump over that pop into the Silicon Valley bubble before something happens and say, no you should be thinking about X, you should think about Y. At an event like Radio I've got a force multiplier because I've got 40 plus Ambassadors with me all popping up at all these little booths you see behind you, and the shows, and the talks. >> And the goal here is not to be a bubble, but to be completely one hive mind. >> And the diversity at VMware just blows my mind, it really does. I think a lot of people comment on it quite often, and in fact I've been asked to be a non-exec director of other companies, to help them advise on their culture. Which is not in tech, in culture, which is quite interesting. And so the diversity that we have here is really infusing people to innovate in a way that they've not done before. It's that diverse set of opinions really helps. >> Well it does. And this, from what we've heard, Radio is a very, there's a lot of internal competition, it's like a badge of honor to be able to respond to the call for papers, let alone get selected. Touch on the synergies, the symbiosis that I feel like I'm hearing between the things that are presented here, the CTO Ambassadors and the customers. Like maybe a favorite example of a product or service that came from, maybe a CTO Ambassador, to Radio, to market. >> Yeah, I'm just trying to think of any one specific one. There are always bits and pieces, and things here and there. I think I should have thought of that before I came on really. I think what you're looking at here is, it's much more about an informed conversation and so it's those ideas around the fact. And also, quite often someone will have a cool idea, and they'll go to the Ambassadors, can you find me five customers that want to try this? Bang, we've got it. So if you're out there on a customer, and someone comes to you as an ambassador and says, I've got a really cool thing I'd like you to try. It might be before, we have a thing called Fling, so it might even be before it's made a fling. You probably heard from Morney how that process goes. Then engage fast, because you're probably getting that conduit direct into the core of R&D. So a lot of the features that people see and functions and products et cetera, that people see. A lot of the work you see, we're doing with the next version if you realized our management platform, a lot of that has been driven by work that's been done by Ambassadors in the field, and what we're doing there. All the stuff you'll see, I've got my jacket over there with NANO EDGE written on it. A lot of the EDGE stuff that you see, a lot of the stuff around ESXi on Arm, a lot of the stuff around that is driven specifically around a particular product range. So a really good example is, a few years ago, probably around four, myself and Ray sat down and had a meeting in VMware Barcelona, with a retail customer, and the retail customer was talking about could we get them an STDC, but small enough to fit in every store. They didn't say that at the time, but that's how we kind of got to it. So that started off a whole process in our minds, and then I went back and we, the easiest actual way for me to do it was to then get a bunch of the Ambassadors to present that as one of their innovation ideas, which became NANO EDGE. I originally called it VX Nook, because we were going to do it on intel Nooks. (laughs) Unfortunately the naming committee wouldn't allow VX Nook, so it became NANO EDGE. And that drove a whole change within the company, I think within R&D. So if you think up until that point, four years ago, most of what we were doing was, how do we run things bigger and faster? It was all like Monster VM, remember that? All those kinds of things, right? How do we get these SAP HANA 12 terabyte VMs running? And really NANO EDGE was not necessarily a product, per se but it was more of a movement driven by a particular individual, Simon Richardson, who had got promoted to Principle as a result, through the Ambassador program. That was driven through our R&D to get them to think small as well as big, you know. So next time you're building that thing, how small can you run your SX, how small can we get an SX? >> John: Small, at scale. Which is EDGE, right? >> And, you know, so get small, at scale, which was EDGE. And so suddenly everyone starts talking about EDGE, and I'm like, hang on I've been talking about this for a while now, but we just didn't really call it that. And then along comes technology like Kubernetes, which is how do you manage thousands of small things. And it's kind of, these things come together. But yes, totally, you can almost say our EDGE strategy, and a lot of the early EDGE work was done and driven out of stuff that was done from CTO Ambassadors. It's just one of the examples. >> What are some of the Kubernetes service mesh? Because one of the things we heard from Pat, and we've heard this before, but most recently at Dell Technologies World, in the last couple of weeks, was don't look down, look up. Which basically means we're automating the infrastructure. I get that, I've covered ad nauseam. But looking up the stack means you're talking about kubernetes app developers, you've got cloud native, you've got services meshes, microservices, new kinds of challenges around instrumentation. How are you guys inside Radio looking at that trend? Because there's some commercial impact, You've got Heptio, you've got Craig and the team, some of the original guys. >> Yeah, yeah. >> As well as you have a future state coming out, with state, pun intended, data, stateless. (laughs) These are new dynamics. >> Yeah, yeah. >> What's the R&D take on this? >> So there's two ways that I really talk to people about this. The first one is, I've got a concept that I talk about called application chromatography. Which sounds mental, but you remember from high school probably, chromatography was where you had that really special paper and you put the dot of liquid on and it spread it to all it's constituent parts. That's actually what's happening with our applications right now. So, we've gone through a history of re-platform. You know, mainframe, blah blah blah blah blah. So then when we got to x86, everything's on x86, along comes cloud, and as you know John, for the last 10 years it's been everything's going to cloud because we think that's the next platform. It's not, but then everything's not going to SAS, it's not all going to paths, it's not all going to Functions, it's not all going to containers. What you're seeing is those applications are coming off that one big server, and they're spreading themselves out to the right places. So I talk to customers now and they say, okay, well actually I need a management plan, and a strategy and an architecture for infrastructure as a service, containers as a service, functions as a service platform as a service and SAS, and I need a structure for that on premises and off premises. So that's truly driving R&D thinking is not how do we help our customers get from one of those to the other? They're going to all of them. >> It sounds like a green screen for media. >> It is, and then the other side of that is I've just had a conversation with some of the best, you know, what these events are like? Some of the best conversations in the water cooler, in the- >> In the hallway, yup exactly. >> I've just had a fascinating conversation with one of our guys has been talking about, oh it's really cool if we got kubernetes cause I could use it right down at the edge. I could use it to manage thousands as a tiny EDGE things. And as I'm talking to him and sort of saying, you know what he's doing, I suddenly went, hang on a second, how does a developer talk to that? He's like, well I've not really thought about that. I said, well that's your problem. We need to stop thinking about things from how can that framework help me? But how can I extend that framework? And so a lot of that- >> Moving beyond just standing up kubernetes, for what purpose? Or is that what you know, the why, what? >> So if the developers there, it shouldn't be all. I'm going to use this new framework to solve my problem or the EDGE if an R&D person would, but people like myself are there to drive them to think of the bigger picture. So ultimately at some point a developer in the future is going to want to sit there and through an API, push out software SQL server, a bit of Mongo over here, some stuff on AWS, go and use the service on our Azure at the same time pushing stuff into their own data center and maybe push a container to every store if they're a retailer and they want to do that through one place. That's what we're building. And you know, driving that, all these bits and pieces you see behind you pulling those all together into this sort of consistent operations model. As I'm sure you've heard many of- >> And it's dynamics not static, so it's not like provisioning the old way. You got to track what's being turned on and off because how do you log off? What goes turns on? What services get turned on? Turned off, turned on. >> If you don't get a theme of really, I suppose not only Radio, but our industry of the last few years, people have always said if that cliche change is constant, right? Oh, change is constant. Yet still architects build systems that are static, right? You guys that just, I'm designing an architect in this new system for the next three years. I'm like, that's stupid. What you need to do is design a system that you know is going to change before you've even finished starting it. More or less started going half way through it. So actually, as I see, I was in a fantastic session yesterday with the Architects around ESXi and VCenter, which might be boring to most, but where we architecting that for scale at a huge way. >> Well, I think that's the key thing I mean this is, first of all, we'd love this conversation because, if you can make it programmable with API and have data available, that's the architecture because it's programmable, it's not static. So you let it morph into however the application, because I think I mentioned green screen, you know chroma keys as we have those concepts here, but that's what you're saying. The apps are going to have this notion of, I need an app right now and then it goes away. Services are going to be provisioning and turning on and off. >> There is a transience, there's a transience to infrastructure, there's a transience to applications, there's a transience to components that traditional mechanisms aren't built to do. So if you look at actually, what are we building here? And what's that sort of hive mind message? It's how do we provide that platform going forward that supports transience? that allows customers to come, I mean people used to use the term agile, but it's been over years and it's not right. It's the fact that literally it's a situation of constant change. And what your deploying onto, it's constantly changing and what you're deploying is constantly changing. So we're trying to work out how do we put that piece in the middle, that is also changing but allows you some kind of constancy in what you're doing, right? So we can plug new things in the bottom, a new cloud here, a new piece of software there, a new piece of hardware there or whatever. And at the same time, there's new ways of doing architecture coming on top. That's the challenge of this, the software defined data centers, almost like an operating system for clouds or the future operating system for all apps on all clouds and all of- >> It's a systems thinking for sure, absolutely. >> Let's put your Chief Talking Officer hat on for a second as we look- >> I thought I've been doing that for the last fifteen minutes. (laughs) >> At VMWorld 2019, which is just around the corner. Any cool ANEA customers that are going to be on stage that we should be excited to hear about it? >> Actually, I was having a meeting yesterday morning about that, so I can't really say, but there's some exciting stuff we're lining up right now. We're obviously now is the time we start thinking about the keynotes, now at the time you start thinking about who's on stage. Myself and a few others are responsible for what those demos are, you know the cool demos you see on stage every year. So we literally had the meeting yesterday morning at Radio to discuss what's going to be the wow at VMWorld this year. So I'm not going to give anything away to you. I'll just say make sure you're there to watch it because it's going to be good. And we're also making sure there's a big difference between what we're doing in Moscone now and what we're going to be doing it in Barcelona when we- >> And when expand theCUBE outside of the United States certainly, we'd love to have you guys plug in and localize some of these unique challenges. Like you said, I agree bubble now the west of the world has different challenges content different. >> Definitely, I think to that end, multicloud is probably more of a thing in Europe than it was necessarily in, in North America for a longer time because those privacy laws you talked about before, people have always been looking at the fact that maybe they had to use a local cloud for some things. You know, a German cloud run by German people in a German data center and they could use another cloud like Amazon for other things. And you know, we have UK cloud who provide a specific government based cloud, et cetera. Whereas in America there was, you could use an American cloud and that was fine. So I think actually in Europe we've already been at the forefront of that multicloud thinking for a while. So it's worth watching. >> It is worth watching, I wish we had more time to, so you're just going to have to come back. >> Definitely, anytime tell me when. >> We look forward to seeing you at VMWorld. We thank you for sharing some insights with John and me on theCUBE today. >> Cool, thank you. >> For John Ferrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware Radio 2019, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Open Systems, the future is crystal clear with security and SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas everybody. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE. The leader in live tech coverage. We're here at the Cosmopolitan Hotel in the Chandelier Bar. At the Open Systems networking event, two gardener events this week in Las Vegas. On the heels of last week's AWS reinvent. Suresh Manchella is here. Is the Director of Global Infrastructure at Hillenbrand. Suresh, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> So, tell me about Hillenbrand. What you guys do, and what your role is. >> So, Hillenbrand owns two different companies. One is the Batesville Casket Company, which has been around about 150 years or so. And then the other side of the business is Process Equipment Group, where we do industrial pumps, separations, and heavy machinery, and things in that nature. >> Okay and your role as Global and Infrastructure, so it touches on all infrastructure presumably secure. Why don't you describe the scope of a little bit. >> So, my role is I'm the Global Director of Infrastructure from a corporate stand point. I oversee everything, you know network storage systems, compute cloud initiatives, and what not. Including some of the outside security operations as well. For Hillenbrand Corporate across all the companies that we own. >> So you guys manufacture industrial equipment, which presumably supports a time's critical infrastructure, so security is vital. What are some of the big factors that are driving your business and how do they affect your technology strategy? >> From a business standpoint, Hillenbrand, I'm in that space a lot. We try to acquire a lot of companies within that space and as a result we have many companies that are coming in and out our portfolio. With any other manufacturing companies, we have the same challenges where how do we integrate them faster? How do we integrate them in a secure and safer way? But at the same time, also enabling our businesses to take on the next step and evolve from a traditional manufacturing company to doing the digital transformation and taking advantage of technology to have the competitive advantage in the market. >> So I got to ask you, so we do a lot of these events everyone talks about digital transformation. It's become kind of a buzzword, but when I talk to practitioners like yourself, there's actually substance there and it relates to, it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but what's behind your digital transformation? Is it instrumentation, is it better collection of data? Is it using that for competitive advantage? All of the above? How would you describe it? >> You said it. It's all of the above. We have a lot of data that we're collecting over the years. About our customers. How they use our products. And what are some of the maintenance cycles that are going through our larger equipment, things of that nature. We have all of that information. I think we need to start looking at that information, and say how can we enable the business to provide the intelligence it needs to be proactive to reach out to the customers and say these machinery might need maintenance very soon, or things of that nature. So we want to provide that value to the business. >> So as part of that, Suresh, the instrumenting that machinery? Or is the machinery already instrumented? Is it translating analog to digital and providing connectivity, what's behind that? >> Some of our machinery that have been out there have been there for, you know, many many decades and many, many years. It's not they're not already there when it comes to IoT and things to that nature. But we're trying to look at some of those opportunities out there and see how we can better support our products. >> So that's a largely road map stuff. Right now, you're tryna focus on making sure that the business is working. You're getting products to market fast and winning the competitive game. Let's talk about security a little bit. Obviously Open Systems is a security company, manage security infrastructure. What's happening in security? What are the big trends, the mega trends that you see, and how are they affecting the way in which you approach technology and applying that to business advantage? >> So as a customer and as a manufacturing company traditionally we used to look at a company as you have your four walls: data center, all of your key elements are inside it and as we're going through what's the cloud transformation and everybody's talking about that cloud buzzword. Those boundaries are getting shattered. Information is everywhere. It's no longer within those four boundaries. So we have to start thinking security a different way. We used to think that, put some firewalls, put some controls around these things and things could be saved. But it's no longer the case. Everything is in the cloud. As a software as a service or platform as a service, infrastructure as a service. And they're all over the place. For the most part, you don't have access to those backing systems. So how do you protect them? We need to fundamentally change how we look at security and how do we protect it. Rather than focusing on the central systems, we have to focus on the endpoints at this point. >> So, different mindset for sure. Different sort of technology approach? Or similar practices with just different methodologies? How do you describe that? >> It's certainly a different methodology. The focus is certainly shifting. It's no longer centralized. It's decentralized. It's information everywhere. Information overload. It could be on your phones. It could be on your desktops. It could be on your laptops. It could be on servers in the cloud. Cloud service providers, there are a lot of things that come into play, when you're talking about the security the data that's scattered all over the place. >> So you're a customer of Open Systems, is that right? >> Yes we are. >> Maybe you could describe what you do with them and what your relationship has been with them? How do you apply their technique? >> Hillenbrand owns a company based out of Germany. And they've been a long standing customer of Open Systems for many, many years. So as a part of the acquisition, we got to know Open Systems and the value that their adding to in the SD-WAN spaces, and security space. Which is quite phenomenal. >> Okay, so you're part of the role as it relates to Open Systems is through that other division of the company, so how you apply their tech? What are you doin' with it? >> We utilize Open Systems as our SD-WAN provider outside the U.S. Primarily that division that we had was outside the U.S. for the most part. As we are getting to know more and more about Open Systems, over the years, it's a no brainer for us. They can provide a very reliable service that's scalable, very quick turnarounds. And that's certainly fitting in well with our MNA strategy where we acquire a company and try to integrate these things we cannot wait several months for and ambulance provider to drop a circuit and get them in, and things to that nature so with Open Systems, the SD-WAN concept, you only need an internet connection and they do all the magic behind the scenes and put it all together. >> So it's cloud like in the sense that it's sort of a managed service. But it's not necessarily remote cloud services, it could be on prim. >> Yes, it can be anywhere. >> Eventually at the edge. >> Yeah. >> So it fits into the roadmap. What's the biggest security challenge that you face as a practitioner today? >> The biggest security challenge that we have is protecting the data that's everywhere. The biggest challenge is knowing where the data is today. If anybody can solve that problem, I'd like to know. The first one to know that. It's quite a challenge for everybody lately. >> It's an arm's race, isn't it? >> It Is. >> Good. Well, Suresh, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's a pleasure meeting you. >> Thank you. >> Keep it right there everybody, we'll be back. From Las Vegas at the Open Systems networking event. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live from London, England, it's The Cube, covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> The Cube at Nutanix .NEXT 2018 in London. It might be a little cold, blistery, and rainy outside, but it's nice and dry and warm in here. Digging into all the technology in the ecosystem, I'm Stu Miniman, co-host is Joep. Happy to welcome to the program, first-time guest Anthony Daloyau, who is the head of Alliance for SEU for Capgemini. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you very much. >> Alright, so we're quite familiar with Capgemini. Many partners, definitely doing a lot in the Cloud for many years now. About two years ago, my understanding, is when you started working with Nutanix. Tell us what brought that to have you add that into the offerings. >> At Capgemini, we are continuously, carefully curate a global ecosystem of technology and business player, and also startup to provide our clients with access to the latest thinking technology, and experiences across all activity sector. And went on to realize value from this ecosystem. For each client, we adopt independent posture to identify on a case-by-case basis those partners that prefer the best of great internal solution and to be sure we can response to each challenge from our questioner. When it comes to Capgemini cloud infrastructure offering as part of the development of the hybrid cloud services we made some years ago, we need a partner with the widest possible openness in terms of the (mumbles) solution, (mumbles) support and although on the spot servers. Two years ago, as you know, the technology were not as developed as today but Nutanix had already some wider branch of functionalities, more than it's competition. It's why we made this show two years ago was clearly the main difference between Nutanix and the other one. >> So looking at Nutanix, they're a big company now, they have a lot of products. So can you tell us a little bit about the use cases that you use at Nutanix for your customers. >> The first case where we use ourself, the Nutanix solution to the customer is obviously the private cloud. As part of the (mumbles) strategy we made. The second one is the VDI project. We have a lot of references or successes on the VDI with Nutanix transistors and most simply, we tripled the Nutanix solution to replace the traditional intra-server storage and it allows us to add more agility, more simplicity in the software, define at a central model. >> So you're talking about data center, you're talking about VDI, that's traditional on-prem workloads. So maybe to to add a little bit about the transition from on-prem into the public cloud and how do you define which applications go where, which do you leave on-prem, which go to the cloud. Does Capgemini have a solution for that, how does that work? >> We developed a few years ago tools named EAPM, the acronym is economical application portfolio management. EAPM is part of the global approach to merge the information system and to define and to build a trajectory to the public cloud, to the private cloud but also the digital transformation globally to the (mumbles) cloud. We took the information from the CMDB but also from the data sensitivity, the different floors, the dynamics of the application and we define in three decision model how we can go to the different platform. Of course the public cloud is a target, but we can define to go to Yas Pas, private, public, on-site, on-prem and the last project we made, we're using the APM. We discover that there is not yet 100% to the direction of the public cloud. Some application (mumbles) need still to have something in private mode and of course we use Nutanix to (mumbles) which is a (mumbles). >> So Nutanix is not been sitting still. The last few years, they've really expanded their offering. I believe I heard it was like two years ago, they basically had two products. Today they have over 14, they've done MNA, they laid out a road map of innovation. What is exciting your team, what do you expect to take with that and work with your customers over the next couple of quarters? >> Nutanix is one of the software details. We understand how and why it adds value to work with a system integrator like Capgemini. So the first thing we expect is to continue to develop our offer based on the Nutanix technology and we hope they will maybe, this year, next year, develop a dedicated program for (mumbles) like Cap because two days I have programmed for the classic, traditional reseller from big player, not yet for the adversarial. I think it's the first point. The second point, I expect they continue to support us on develop offer, on top of their products and the last one is, we saw a lot of new, or a lot of new functionalities that we expect they continue to develop on the orchestration or segmentation on network and so on and so on. For us, globally, the best and important part now, because the global platform able to understand it, able to standardize it and for us, it's very, very important. >> Alright, so Anthony, what are the questions people have all the time is how do I keep up and one of the answers I have today is look, you have to have partners that you could turn to. Both the technology partners and very importantly, the system integrator partners are one of the real ways. How does Capgemini differentiate, how are you helping customers with this journey to keeping up into the cloud and beyond. The main point is we start from the application. A lot of time we think our competitor is nothing. The question about the cloud, which is a requisitory, public, private, now the real question is, how can I move my application, where can I put the application. So I think the main differentiator from Capgemini about the competition, we take an advantage of EAPM, or own tool to define with the application where we want to go, where we can go. >> Alright, well Anthony, really appreciate the updates. Congratulation for the progress, we look forward to keeping an eye on where things go. Alright, be sure to stay with us. Full day of coverage here Nutanix .NEXT 2018 in London. Thank you for watching The Cube. (light electronic music)

>> Live from London, England, it's the Cube, Covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Hi, and welcome to the Excel Center in London, England, where 3500 customers, partners, and employees of Nutanix have gathered for the annual European show of Nutanix .Next 2018. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost for two days of wall to wall exclusive coverage from the Cube is Joep Piscaer, our first European co-host. Joep, I first met you two years ago at the Nutanix show in Vienna. Last year was in Nice. We're now in London, and now you're not just a guest, but a host. Thanks so much for joinin' us. >> Thank you. So, it was awesome three years ago I was a customer, then I transitioned into a tech champion as well, for getting to know the technology and the people behind Nutanix, and now I'm here as a co-host, looking at Nutanix as a company. >> Well, we really appreciate you joining us. Give us, first of all, some more credibility in the European space, and also we always love to get the practitioner viewpoint. So, you have been a customer, you're part of I believe the NTC Program that Nutanix has, so you understand the technology. We're going to get to talk to some of the customers, some of those executives, and the like, so lookin' forward to havin' ya' sit with me, and dig into it, including, a first on the Cube, you're going to do one interview in your native tongue of Dutch. >> Yes, oh yeah. It's going to be completely in Nederlands, so completely Dutch, and I'm looking forward to that. >> Alright, so Dheeraj Pandey was on stage this morning, and Dheeraj, masterful, gives quite a good keynote, talking about how Nutanix is now nine years old, and so therefore he says still very young when you look at most of the technology companies out there, but they've come a long way. I've watched Nutanix since the very early days, and still kind of blows my mind. Some of the companies I've watched in their ascendancy, I remember VMware back when they were about 100 people. Nutanix, I met when they were about 30 people. Pernixdata that Nutanix bought, Soft Jamb that we're going to have on later today, introduced me to the company when it was three people and a dog, and Nutanix now, over I think 3000, 3500 people, announced last night their Q 1 2019 earnings, and some of the quick speeds would be 313 million dollars of revenue. That is up 14% year over year for the quarter, up 3% quarter over quarter from the previous quarter. Strong growth in a lot of the financials, really moving strongly along their path to be software, which is 51% of billings were from the software, and expect to read somewhere between 70 and 75% in the next four to six quarters, so aggressively meeting that, and publicly traded company, you kind of look at it and say "Wow, this Nutanix has a seven billion dollar market cap before the market opened today. We'll see what the market thinks of their earnings." What's just it that at a high level, you've been watching Nutanix for a while, so what's your take on the company? >> So, you know, I met em' a couple years ago as well. I think they were 100 people big back then. I learned from them from a technology perspective, so I just got to know the technology, got to know why they were building the startup, building this technology, and this was back in the day when it was basically a VDI product, and it was hardware. It was a thin layer of software, and they kept building that out, and building it out. At some point I became a customer of them, when their appliances were becoming so mature, that I actually saw the advantages that they were touting. Ease of management, one click for everything, and that made such a difference in the world back then, that it's just so good to see them growing and growing from the VDI product it was at some point, all to where it is now. This is not a startup anymore, this is a big company, with a portfolio that's becoming very broad, very deep as well. So seeing them grow this quickly, it's been pretty much amazing to see. I haven't seen a company go that fast in a long time. >> Yeah, well it's one of the things that really, if you look at where we are in technology today, things move fast. So the rest of the team for the Cube is at Amazon re:Invent, and the amount of announcements coming out of them is just staggering, but we're going to talk here about Nutanix. Actually the amount of announcements that Nutanix had, considering as you said they started out, really you think of that thin layer, to really simplify IT. Deeraj in the keynote talked about, "We want to achieve invisible together." was the line that he used, and simplifying things are really tough. That's really what characterized the wave of hyperconverged infrastructure in my mind. When I talk to users, why the bought it, it was simplifying it. It was not, when you think back to VMware, VMware was real easy. It was "Oh, I'm going to consolidate. I'm going to get high utilization.", and there was a clear cost savings. Well today, this hyperconverge is, if you look at building it one way, versus buying it this other way, the actual raw dollars was not that immediately compelling. It is the operational simplicity, and therefore I can allow, in many ways they say IT can now say yes to the business, and focus on things that add value to the business. Move up the stack. a line that I've used at a few of these Nutanix shows is "First, I want to modernize my platform, and then I can do things like modernize my application, modernize all my operations around that." It's catalyst to help customers along their journey for digital transformation. Is that what you've seen? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. So looking at my own experience, I've seen it so clearly that simplifying that infrastructure later, five, six years ago, that was the driver for us to move there. It's become so much more than just a simplification. It's become a story of freeing up time from the IT ops personnel to do other stuff. Just like you said, saying yes to the business, because infrastructure used to be hard. It used to be difficult. You'd need to spend a lot of time on it, and now it's really so easy, it's become a commodity. You either get it from the cloud, you get it from Nutanix or VM or whoever, and that frees up time for the IT ops personnel to do value add stuff on top of it, and I kind of see Nutanix going along that same route. They focused on the infrastructure part. They're still an infrastructure company I think, but they're expanding into that whole journey the customer's going through as well. I think we're going to here a lot more about the hybrid strategy, about cloud, about hybrid cloud, about how to manage that, instead of just the infrastructure stuff. >> Yeah, you bring a good point, that customer journey is definitely one that they talked about, and let's talk about the way you look at the Nutanix portfolio now. The way that Nutanix has framed it, is they gave, it was the customer journey of crawl, walk, run. So first, we have Core, which really is the primary product we've been thinking about, it's what the vast majority of Nutanix customers use, it's HCI, it's Prism, it's those pieces to manage that Core piece. Then, we add on top of that is Essentials, which really looked at some of the expansion areas. Files is one that they launched as an announcement about two years ago I believe it was, that they have Blocks now, which is now a highly scalable object model there, and the Prism Pro, so a bunch of pieces to add on and go beyond the Core, and then they have Enterprise, which is is ICloud's kind of the branding that they have along these, but Leap is DR as a service. They've got Frame, which is desktop as a service. They've got Era, and they've got a whole lot of other software solutions out there that make up this whole portfolio. I wouldn't say it was simple. It took me two or three times of hearing it before it started to crystallize, but if you look out from that customer lens, the customer doesn't need to worry about where these buckets have, it's the, you know, "I'm buying Core stuff, I'm probably growing to Essentials, and then there's areas where Enterprise will make sense.", and it's likely going to be a different go to market and different buying motion. Take something like Frame, who we're going to have on the program today. Frame today is not attached to the Nutanix appliance itself, it was born in the cloud, and many of the enterprise solutions are born in the cloud, multi-cloud. So what's your take on how they're splitting up and discussing the portfolio? >> Just like you said, it took me awhile to figure out what that whole portfolio was, you know, the Core, Essentials, Enterprise stuff, but I do think looking at it from a customer perspective, it does make sense. So they started out simplifying the Core infrastructure. Now they're simplifying the Essentials in the data center as well, like files, like micro-segmentation, like monitoring. Those are topics that customers still spend a lot of time on, but they don't necessarily want to. They want to have something that is readily off the shelf, it's easy to use, easy to expand upon, so I do see Essentials as a good expansion of that messaging that they have been giving for quite a number of years already. Simplifying what is already in the data center already, and then the stretch into the cloud, into the hyper-cloud, delivering services that are still so difficult to do yourself, like take VDI for example. That's still difficult. Sending up an entire environment, managing it, you have to have really specialized people to do that for you, to do the do the design, and being able to get that directly from the cloud makes that so much easier. So I do agree with the de-segmentation into three big buckets, and I do think customers are going to respond positively to it. >> Alright, so, you brought up a term hyper-cloud, that I really didn't feel that we heard a lot about in the keynote this morning. It's an area I want to poke and understand a little bit more when I hear from Nutanix. I was talkin' to one customer in prep for this, and he said a year ago, and the last couple of times, but hearin' a lot about Google. Diane Greene on the stage, I believe it was the D.C show, I didn't see Google here. I know there is updates as to where the Google relationships are going. They did mention Kubernetes. The Kubernetes offer that Nutanix has is called Karbon. I actually expect to see not only what we will have Nutanix on the program here to talk about it, but at the Kubernetes show Kubcon in Seattle in two weeks. Nutanix is one of the sponsors that we'll have on the program there. Other than Kubernetes and how that fits into the cloud native discussion, I haven't heard a good cohesive message as to Nutanix's hybrid, they talk about how Nutanix lives in a lot of environments, and many of their products live in multi-cloud, and there's some nuance there. I think VMware has a nice clear message on hybrid. Microsoft of course, and of course VMware is the partnership with Amazon is really the core of what they're doing there. They're doing more cloud native and Kubernetes. They bought Heptio. There are things going on there. Amazon is talking a lot more about hybrid. We'll see if they actually use the term hybrid when they talk about it. Nutanix's messaging, we're going to have Deeraj on today, he says "Azure Stack gets a lot of press, but there's not a lot of people using it. VMware on AWS gets a lot of press, once again, not a lot of companies using it yet". And while I agree, customers actually feel comforted by the message that they understand how do I get from where I am today, to where I need to go? And of course I'm not saying that everybody goes 100% public cloud. The hybrid multi cloud world kind of looks like where we'll be for the next five or 10 years at least, and Edge puts a whole 'nother spin on things. What do you want to hear from Nutanix? What is hybrid, customers might not care about hybrid, but the message about where they're going with cloud is I think what they want clarity on. >> Yeah, I agree. So I think Nutanix doesn't call it hybrid, they're calling it hyperconverged cloud, which makes sense from their historical background. I do think Nutanix has ways to go in developing their own hybrid. Cloud story, making a management layer on top of it, like VMware's done, like Microsoft's doing. So I do think Nutanix is only on the beginning of this journey for themselves, but you're only seeing the small acquisitions they're doing, or the small steps they're taking. Acquiring Frame is one of those unexpected things for me. I would never have thought Nutanix would go that direction, So I do think Nutanix is taking small steps in the right direction. But like you said, they're story isn't complete yet. Its not a story that customers can buy into fully just now, so they do still need a little bit of time for that. >> Yeah, well Joep, really appreciate you helpin' us break down this. We've got two days of full coverage. So much your goin' is that, right, MNA in the space, it's a software world, picking up pieces are easy, heck, one of the under riding rumors I've heard for the last couple of years is "will someone take Nutanix off the table?" Not something I expect them to specifically direct, but at a seven billion dollar market, that would be a large acquisition, but we have seen a few of those in the last couple a' years. so for Joep Piscaer, I'm Stu Miniman, stay with us for two days. Wall to wall coverage. Thecube.net is of course where to see all of the live and on demand content. Thanks so much for watchin' the Cube. (contemplative music)