>>Hey everyone. Welcome to the Cube's Special Program series. Women of the Cloud Drops You by aws. I'm your host for the series, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome Elle Mans to the program VP of North America Cloud platforms at Converge Technology Solutions. Rochelle, great to have you on the program. Thank you for your time today. >>Thank you, Lisa. Excited to be here. >>Tell me a little bit about you, a little bit about your role so the audience gets that understanding. >>Sure. So my role here is to help our customers migrate to public cloud or, or adopt public cloud as part as their overall digital transformation strategy. I've been in this role a little over two years supporting our, our customers and, and our organization as, as a whole. My background in technology, I've actually been a, a woman in technology since 1989. I'm one of those rare breeds that from a very, very young age, I knew I loved computers and, and always wanted something, something to do with it. The last 10 years of, of my career really has been working with clients and, and companies in the, in the industry with disruptive technologies, adopting new and and emerging technologies and, and cloud has been my focus for, for the last two years. >>But you're an og it sounds like when it comes >>To >>Tech, that's outstanding. >>It's surprises a lot of folks, >>Doesn't it? Yeah. Yes. Sometimes it surprises me as well, like how long I've been doing something, and I'm sure the same for you, but you have such wisdom and such experience that I would love to be able to share with the audience. Talk a little bit about some of your recommendations. Are they tactical, they strategic for those in the audience watching who really want to grow their careers and tech and climb that ladder? >>Yeah, I, I think, you know, our younger generations right now have, have, I think, a little bit of an easier path to, to take than, than some of us have with the amount of information that's out there, the access to, to information and the opportunity. I think one of the biggest recommendations that, that I can put out there is to always continue learning and find a mentor. Find a sponsor. You know, I, with being a female in tech, there weren't that many when I started out in the industry. And it's just, I get amazed every time I meet another, another female. And whether she's been in the industry for, you know, 20 years or two or five years, it's just exciting to see and listen to the stories of other people's paths and their journey. So mentor and, and your tribe, you definitely need your tribe. >>Absolutely. You know, something I didn't understand until a few years ago was the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. And it's so incredibly important to understand differences between the two, how they can help you lev get leverage in the career path that you're on, but, but people need to know you. You have a network, it's there. You might not think you do, but it is there. And think about those who are mentors, those that can be sponsors to help elevate you along your journey. >>Yeah, it's, it's amazing. I, I think about, I have three, three really good friends that we've grown up in the industry together, but the, sometimes even having those three really good friends, we went through many things by ourselves that we didn't have to, as you mentioned it, it, it, it took me longer than, than than I should to understand that I have someone that we can lean on sometimes just having those conversations and saying, Is this what I should do? Is this something or did did that just happen to me? You know, and having those that, that mentor and, and that partnership with someone that they may be in your organization, they may be outside of your organization, but definitely that you can have those candid conversations about what your growth or goal, what you'd like to strive for. You know, especially if it's something that may on the surface appear to be out of, out of reach. You know, if you have, have someone that is maybe not as invested in what you're trying to achieve, but can look at you and have that objective conversation, I think makes, makes all the difference and makes all the difference in the world. >>It does. And it's, it's a little bit about vulnerability, about raising your hand, saying, Hey, I'm very interested in this. I may not meet every single written criteria in the job description, but I have an interest and a passion. Can you help me navigate the, the path to, in order to get there? It's part of, it's just really raising your hand. >>It's, that's such a, such a great point, Lisa, because in some ways we can't be vulnerable because we are underrepresented as, as women in technology, but at the same time, we have to have that ability to have those same conversations that, you know, I don't know everything. Can I do this? What do I need to learn? So it, it really is finding that that balance and when you have a mentor that can help you in that area, that's the way you can show that vulnerability without, without looking like you don't have strength. >>Right. There's a balance there for sure. Speaking of that, vulnerability, diversity, we talk a lot about diversity when it comes to technology. There's a lot of strides being made. There's also some challenges, there's some gaps. What are some of the things that you see from your lens, from your seat with respect to diversity and some of the challenges that are still out there? >>Yeah, I, I look at companies like AWS with much respect on where, you know, their diversity and inclusion goals. It's not just a checkbox. You can actually see that when it is part of the culture, the room looks diverse. There are so many companies that have have the diversity and and inclusion goals, but when you go into the room or you, you're sitting in a meeting or you have a board, it is, it's, it's still, it's, it's still not seeing yourself in that, in that room. I go to a lot of conferences, attend, attend a lot of meetings, and it, and it's still surprising to see, you know, the lack of minority representation, leadership and the lack of women in, in, in leadership. So while there's been amazing strides that we've seen happen, you know, particularly, like I said, with companies like aws, we've got a long way to go. >>And I think you mentioned the difference between a mentorship and, and sponsorship. That's one thing within these organizations, particularly in leadership, there, there needs to be that sponsorship of, of the individuals in your organization that can help change what the landscape looks like at the top through your leadership. You'd be surprised how how problems are solved differently. Problems can be solved more quickly and talk about innovation when you've got more a diverse lens. There's more ways to innovate if you've got different people bringing different perspectives to the, to the conversation. So looking forward to seeing that continuing changing of, of the landscape. When I look inside the room and, and I count, >>I do the same thing and there's so much value in thought diversity for organizations and that data clearly speaks for us stuff. We, we can't have a tech conversation without talking about data, but data demonstrate that for organizations that have diversity emails, for example, in the C-suite, those organizations are more profitable. So bringing in different tracks of thought, different perspectives, the thought diversity, diversity and gender diversity and other things is so valuable. It's invaluable to organizations in every industry. >>Yeah, it's, it's invaluable. And it, and it's funny because our industry tech right now, I mean data is, you know, it's the, it's the new water, it's the, the gold mine. It's the asset. And it's, it's funny that in this area that the data is, is almost ignored. It's, it's, the data proves itself. So it doesn't have to be a checkbox for these, you know, diversity inclusion goals because the data's there to, to prove that we're all here to be profitable, follow that data. >>Exactly. And sometimes it seems so simple. Follow the data and we, we think the same recommendation holds true to, to any industry that any company and any industry that needs to be a data company to be able to deliver what the demanding consumers want, follow the data, it won't leave you astray. So I wanna get though back to talking about you and some of the impact that you've been able to have in your career. Talk a little bit about some of the specific success stories of problems that you've helped solve related to cloud computing. >>Yeah, I, this last, I'd say 16 to 18 months for us as an organization has been amazing for me as well as my team. Some of our, you know, the majority of our success, we couldn't be, I couldn't be here having this conversation without my team. And for, for us as a, as an organization where our heritage is legacy data center, and we've got customers that we've had a 10, 15, 20 year selling relationship with that now via our acquisition strategy and growth strategy, we're going to them in saying, let us help you with your cloud journey. And it's something that they haven't known our, our organization for in the past. And so when we go in there and, and meet with CIOs and CEOs and ask for them to trust us to take them on this cloud journey, and many of our clients are, are what you term greenfield, that they've got very little activity in public cloud. >>And so it's a, it's a disruption, it's an internal disruption that can be a very emotional journey that has to start with trust because you transform so much of the business. And so each and every of our wins, particularly when we have, when we have wins with brands that are recognizable, particularly when we have wins against competitors that have been in the cloud space, and that's all they do. For me, I take that as, as a personal stamp of endorsement because we've, we've shown and demonstrated to those clients that we're the right ones to, to take 'em on that journey. And we've created that, we've created that, that trust. So for me, we've had some incredible wins with our clients and those conversations can get tough sometimes we're in, we're in the middle of a migration and the operational change that'll happen. And sometimes there's tough conversations to say, you know, you think your organization is here, it's not, it's here. And we're not calling that out to say, you haven't done something, we're calling that out so that your journey ends where you'd like it to be, where we've all agreed for it to to be. And so when we, you know, have that final party or have, you know, that final sign off at the end of the project, that that's, that's a personal personal win for, for me, I, I, I enjoy solving problems and, and, and taking customers on those journeys, >>Solving problems and, and helping customers navigate the journey, whether it's the journey to cloud, the journey to digital, the journey to being more competitive than their competitors is, is just that, it's a journey. It's a multi-phased multi-step process. And to your point, underpinning that has to be trust between the organization and the people that are working to get them successfully on that journey. >>It does, and it's, it's funny, some of the, some of the conversations we're, we're starting out. Our, our approach, our team is very prescriptive and we'll get a lot of customers that just wanna go, go, go. And it's, it's, I'm, I'm road racing as, as my hobby. And so the old adage, sometimes you've gotta go slow to go fast and we, we talk to our customers and there's a lot of interviewing and they just wanna deliver. They just wanna jump in. And we're, we're like, it, it is, we know this may feel like we're going slow, but if we can really truly understand what that business outcome looks like, if we can uncover how you can leverage your investment and your, your movement to cloud, many, many customers are looking at it from a total cost of owner ownership. Can I, can I get outta the data center? >>If just that moving out of the data center, if we do those interviews with your different teams, and then we can understand an area where we can improve a customer experience, you know, make an offering that's been a, a cost center for you, a profit center for you. Those are things that we're looking for. So we really get to know our client's business. So it's not just about the technology or the destination, it's, it's what do you do when you get there? And so having those deep conversations with, with our, with our clients is, is the approach that we like to take. >>It's really about, to your point, it's about technology, but also processes and people, we can't forget the people part of this. Talk to me a little bit from the people perspective about how you see cloud evolving in the industry. Where are people involved and what are some of the things that you're excited about in terms of the evolution of your role? >>Yeah, In, in some ways for both our, our team internally and when we're working with clients, people in operations tend to be the things that are minimized. It, it tends to focus a lot on the technology, and we like to tell folks, you have to operate in the cloud and operating requires people in process. And so the, the people we know individuals with cloud skills are very much high in demand. And so how do you attract those skills? How do you retain those skills or how do you upskill the individuals in your organization? There's so much opportunity to bring people along. We go back to one of your earlier questions and, and you know, what's the evolution or roles that people, people can look at in, in the cloud, individuals that are in organizations right now where there hasn't been much public cloud adoption, taking those initiatives. >>Going back to another comment of learning, AWS provides so much free training and so much opportunity for individuals to upskill themselves to have growth in, in technology. And cloud is an area, you know, we're going through a recession. Cloud is an area that is still going to be one of the, the, the places that organizations look for answers to say, how do we drive innovation, right? How do we, how do we advance what we're doing from a, a profitability standpoint? And can we leverage, leverage cloud to cloud to do that? So upscaling and investing in yourself in those areas is, is, there's a great opportunity for that. >>There's a huge opportunity in upscaling and investing in ways to improve your own skills. My last question for you is, if we think back the last few years, talk about some of the changes in tech innovation in the workforce that you've seen and what are some of the things that you think are on the horizon? >>Yeah, so there, there's still a great opportunity to, to exploit cloud and in general, I mean, we see so many companies, software companies looking at sas, business models, subscription models. That's still changing. If we think about cloud economics and, and how we, how, how we purchase today. There's still an evolution there. But I think for me, being a, a self, self-proclaimed tech nerd, everything that's happening with AI and ML from an advanced analytics standpoint, the good and the bad. I mean, I think we've gotta look at the, the, the social responsibility behind this. When you talk about models and, and models themselves being diverse. If, if there isn't diverse background building those miles, the, the intentional bias gets built into, into some of those. But then I look at the, the advancements, I mean, it's exciting. We're working with, with, with one of our clients where autonomous taxis is, is something that they're trying to bring to market. >>You know, these are things that we saw in cartoons growing up that are reality and becoming reality in this day and age. So, you know, that's through AI and machine learning and just, you know, all of the new services that, you know, companies like AWS continue to bring out so that people can be innovative and, and and develop. But it's just, that's the, it's, it's exciting for me to, to see that across the board. So transportation from AI and ml, what we saw, what came out from, you know, covid and testing and the data and, and just the advancements of, of that. So there's, there's so many different ways to apply, apply that technology. >>There is the horizon I think is clearly bright. And thank you so much Rochelle, for sharing what you've done, your experiences, how you're helping to make that horizon even brighter. We appreciate your insights, we appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us in the program today. Thank you Lisa for Rochelle Mans. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cubes coverage of the special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by aws. Thanks for watching.

(bright music) >> In the 2010s, organizations became keenly aware that data would become the key ingredient to driving competitive advantage, differentiation, and growth. But to this day, putting data to work remains a difficult challenge for many, if not most organizations. Now, as the cloud matures, it has become a game changer for data practitioners by making cheap storage and massive processing power readily accessible. We've also seen better tooling in the form of data workflows, streaming, machine intelligence, AI, developer tools, security, observability, automation, new databases and the like. These innovations they accelerate data proficiency, but at the same time, they add complexity for practitioners. Data lakes, data hubs, data warehouses, data marts, data fabrics, data meshes, data catalogs, data oceans are forming, they're evolving and exploding onto the scene. So in an effort to bring perspective to the sea of optionality, we've brought together the brightest minds in the data analyst community to discuss how data management is morphing and what practitioners should expect in 2022 and beyond. Hello everyone, my name is Dave Velannte with theCUBE, and I'd like to welcome you to a special Cube presentation, analysts predictions 2022: the future of data management. We've gathered six of the best analysts in data and data management who are going to present and discuss their top predictions and trends for 2022 in the first half of this decade. Let me introduce our six power panelists. Sanjeev Mohan is former Gartner Analyst and Principal at SanjMo. Tony Baer, principal at dbInsight, Carl Olofson is well-known Research Vice President with IDC, Dave Menninger is Senior Vice President and Research Director at Ventana Research, Brad Shimmin, Chief Analyst, AI Platforms, Analytics and Data Management at Omdia and Doug Henschen, Vice President and Principal Analyst at Constellation Research. Gentlemen, welcome to the program and thanks for coming on theCUBE today. >> Great to be here. >> Thank you. >> All right, here's the format we're going to use. I as moderator, I'm going to call on each analyst separately who then will deliver their prediction or mega trend, and then in the interest of time management and pace, two analysts will have the opportunity to comment. If we have more time, we'll elongate it, but let's get started right away. Sanjeev Mohan, please kick it off. You want to talk about governance, go ahead sir. >> Thank you Dave. I believe that data governance which we've been talking about for many years is now not only going to be mainstream, it's going to be table stakes. And all the things that you mentioned, you know, the data, ocean data lake, lake houses, data fabric, meshes, the common glue is metadata. If we don't understand what data we have and we are governing it, there is no way we can manage it. So we saw Informatica went public last year after a hiatus of six. I'm predicting that this year we see some more companies go public. My bet is on Culebra, most likely and maybe Alation we'll see go public this year. I'm also predicting that the scope of data governance is going to expand beyond just data. It's not just data and reports. We are going to see more transformations like spark jawsxxxxx, Python even Air Flow. We're going to see more of a streaming data. So from Kafka Schema Registry, for example. We will see AI models become part of this whole governance suite. So the governance suite is going to be very comprehensive, very detailed lineage, impact analysis, and then even expand into data quality. We already seen that happen with some of the tools where they are buying these smaller companies and bringing in data quality monitoring and integrating it with metadata management, data catalogs, also data access governance. So what we are going to see is that once the data governance platforms become the key entry point into these modern architectures, I'm predicting that the usage, the number of users of a data catalog is going to exceed that of a BI tool. That will take time and we already seen that trajectory. Right now if you look at BI tools, I would say there a hundred users to BI tool to one data catalog. And I see that evening out over a period of time and at some point data catalogs will really become the main way for us to access data. Data catalog will help us visualize data, but if we want to do more in-depth analysis, it'll be the jumping off point into the BI tool, the data science tool and that is the journey I see for the data governance products. >> Excellent, thank you. Some comments. Maybe Doug, a lot of things to weigh in on there, maybe you can comment. >> Yeah, Sanjeev I think you're spot on, a lot of the trends the one disagreement, I think it's really still far from mainstream. As you say, we've been talking about this for years, it's like God, motherhood, apple pie, everyone agrees it's important, but too few organizations are really practicing good governance because it's hard and because the incentives have been lacking. I think one thing that deserves mention in this context is ESG mandates and guidelines, these are environmental, social and governance, regs and guidelines. We've seen the environmental regs and guidelines and posts in industries, particularly the carbon-intensive industries. We've seen the social mandates, particularly diversity imposed on suppliers by companies that are leading on this topic. We've seen governance guidelines now being imposed by banks on investors. So these ESGs are presenting new carrots and sticks, and it's going to demand more solid data. It's going to demand more detailed reporting and solid reporting, tighter governance. But we're still far from mainstream adoption. We have a lot of, you know, best of breed niche players in the space. I think the signs that it's going to be more mainstream are starting with things like Azure Purview, Google Dataplex, the big cloud platform players seem to be upping the ante and starting to address governance. >> Excellent, thank you Doug. Brad, I wonder if you could chime in as well. >> Yeah, I would love to be a believer in data catalogs. But to Doug's point, I think that it's going to take some more pressure for that to happen. I recall metadata being something every enterprise thought they were going to get under control when we were working on service oriented architecture back in the nineties and that didn't happen quite the way we anticipated. And so to Sanjeev's point it's because it is really complex and really difficult to do. My hope is that, you know, we won't sort of, how do I put this? Fade out into this nebula of domain catalogs that are specific to individual use cases like Purview for getting data quality right or like data governance and cybersecurity. And instead we have some tooling that can actually be adaptive to gather metadata to create something. And I know its important to you, Sanjeev and that is this idea of observability. If you can get enough metadata without moving your data around, but understanding the entirety of a system that's running on this data, you can do a lot. So to help with the governance that Doug is talking about. >> So I just want to add that, data governance, like any other initiatives did not succeed even AI went into an AI window, but that's a different topic. But a lot of these things did not succeed because to your point, the incentives were not there. I remember when Sarbanes Oxley had come into the scene, if a bank did not do Sarbanes Oxley, they were very happy to a million dollar fine. That was like, you know, pocket change for them instead of doing the right thing. But I think the stakes are much higher now. With GDPR, the flood gates opened. Now, you know, California, you know, has CCPA but even CCPA is being outdated with CPRA, which is much more GDPR like. So we are very rapidly entering a space where pretty much every major country in the world is coming up with its own compliance regulatory requirements, data residents is becoming really important. And I think we are going to reach a stage where it won't be optional anymore. So whether we like it or not, and I think the reason data catalogs were not successful in the past is because we did not have the right focus on adoption. We were focused on features and these features were disconnected, very hard for business to adopt. These are built by IT people for IT departments to take a look at technical metadata, not business metadata. Today the tables have turned. CDOs are driving this initiative, regulatory compliances are beating down hard, so I think the time might be right. >> Yeah so guys, we have to move on here. But there's some real meat on the bone here, Sanjeev. I like the fact that you called out Culebra and Alation, so we can look back a year from now and say, okay, he made the call, he stuck it. And then the ratio of BI tools to data catalogs that's another sort of measurement that we can take even though with some skepticism there, that's something that we can watch. And I wonder if someday, if we'll have more metadata than data. But I want to move to Tony Baer, you want to talk about data mesh and speaking, you know, coming off of governance. I mean, wow, you know the whole concept of data mesh is, decentralized data, and then governance becomes, you know, a nightmare there, but take it away, Tony. >> We'll put this way, data mesh, you know, the idea at least as proposed by ThoughtWorks. You know, basically it was at least a couple of years ago and the press has been almost uniformly almost uncritical. A good reason for that is for all the problems that basically Sanjeev and Doug and Brad we're just speaking about, which is that we have all this data out there and we don't know what to do about it. Now, that's not a new problem. That was a problem we had in enterprise data warehouses, it was a problem when we had over DoOP data clusters, it's even more of a problem now that data is out in the cloud where the data is not only your data lake, is not only us three, it's all over the place. And it's also including streaming, which I know we'll be talking about later. So the data mesh was a response to that, the idea of that we need to bait, you know, who are the folks that really know best about governance? It's the domain experts. So it was basically data mesh was an architectural pattern and a process. My prediction for this year is that data mesh is going to hit cold heart reality. Because if you do a Google search, basically the published work, the articles on data mesh have been largely, you know, pretty uncritical so far. Basically loading and is basically being a very revolutionary new idea. I don't think it's that revolutionary because we've talked about ideas like this. Brad now you and I met years ago when we were talking about so and decentralizing all of us, but it was at the application level. Now we're talking about it at the data level. And now we have microservices. So there's this thought of have we managed if we're deconstructing apps in cloud native to microservices, why don't we think of data in the same way? My sense this year is that, you know, this has been a very active search if you look at Google search trends, is that now companies, like enterprise are going to look at this seriously. And as they look at it seriously, it's going to attract its first real hard scrutiny, it's going to attract its first backlash. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It means that it's being taken seriously. The reason why I think that you'll start to see basically the cold hearted light of day shine on data mesh is that it's still a work in progress. You know, this idea is basically a couple of years old and there's still some pretty major gaps. The biggest gap is in the area of federated governance. Now federated governance itself is not a new issue. Federated governance decision, we started figuring out like, how can we basically strike the balance between getting let's say between basically consistent enterprise policy, consistent enterprise governance, but yet the groups that understand the data and know how to basically, you know, that, you know, how do we basically sort of balance the two? There's a huge gap there in practice and knowledge. Also to a lesser extent, there's a technology gap which is basically in the self-service technologies that will help teams essentially govern data. You know, basically through the full life cycle, from develop, from selecting the data from, you know, building the pipelines from, you know, determining your access control, looking at quality, looking at basically whether the data is fresh or whether it's trending off course. So my prediction is that it will receive the first harsh scrutiny this year. You are going to see some organization and enterprises declare premature victory when they build some federated query implementations. You going to see vendors start with data mesh wash their products anybody in the data management space that they are going to say that where this basically a pipelining tool, whether it's basically ELT, whether it's a catalog or federated query tool, they will all going to get like, you know, basically promoting the fact of how they support this. Hopefully nobody's going to call themselves a data mesh tool because data mesh is not a technology. We're going to see one other thing come out of this. And this harks back to the metadata that Sanjeev was talking about and of the catalog just as he was talking about. Which is that there's going to be a new focus, every renewed focus on metadata. And I think that's going to spur interest in data fabrics. Now data fabrics are pretty vaguely defined, but if we just take the most elemental definition, which is a common metadata back plane, I think that if anybody is going to get serious about data mesh, they need to look at the data fabric because we all at the end of the day, need to speak, you know, need to read from the same sheet of music. >> So thank you Tony. Dave Menninger, I mean, one of the things that people like about data mesh is it pretty crisply articulate some of the flaws in today's organizational approaches to data. What are your thoughts on this? >> Well, I think we have to start by defining data mesh, right? The term is already getting corrupted, right? Tony said it's going to see the cold hard light of day. And there's a problem right now that there are a number of overlapping terms that are similar but not identical. So we've got data virtualization, data fabric, excuse me for a second. (clears throat) Sorry about that. Data virtualization, data fabric, data federation, right? So I think that it's not really clear what each vendor means by these terms. I see data mesh and data fabric becoming quite popular. I've interpreted data mesh as referring primarily to the governance aspects as originally intended and specified. But that's not the way I see vendors using it. I see vendors using it much more to mean data fabric and data virtualization. So I'm going to comment on the group of those things. I think the group of those things is going to happen. They're going to happen, they're going to become more robust. Our research suggests that a quarter of organizations are already using virtualized access to their data lakes and another half, so a total of three quarters will eventually be accessing their data lakes using some sort of virtualized access. Again, whether you define it as mesh or fabric or virtualization isn't really the point here. But this notion that there are different elements of data, metadata and governance within an organization that all need to be managed collectively. The interesting thing is when you look at the satisfaction rates of those organizations using virtualization versus those that are not, it's almost double, 68% of organizations, I'm sorry, 79% of organizations that were using virtualized access express satisfaction with their access to the data lake. Only 39% express satisfaction if they weren't using virtualized access. >> Oh thank you Dave. Sanjeev we just got about a couple of minutes on this topic, but I know you're speaking or maybe you've always spoken already on a panel with (indistinct) who sort of invented the concept. Governance obviously is a big sticking point, but what are your thoughts on this? You're on mute. (panelist chuckling) >> So my message to (indistinct) and to the community is as opposed to what they said, let's not define it. We spent a whole year defining it, there are four principles, domain, product, data infrastructure, and governance. Let's take it to the next level. I get a lot of questions on what is the difference between data fabric and data mesh? And I'm like I can't compare the two because data mesh is a business concept, data fabric is a data integration pattern. How do you compare the two? You have to bring data mesh a level down. So to Tony's point, I'm on a warpath in 2022 to take it down to what does a data product look like? How do we handle shared data across domains and governance? And I think we are going to see more of that in 2022, or is "operationalization" of data mesh. >> I think we could have a whole hour on this topic, couldn't we? Maybe we should do that. But let's corner. Let's move to Carl. So Carl, you're a database guy, you've been around that block for a while now, you want to talk about graph databases, bring it on. >> Oh yeah. Okay thanks. So I regard graph database as basically the next truly revolutionary database management technology. I'm looking forward for the graph database market, which of course we haven't defined yet. So obviously I have a little wiggle room in what I'm about to say. But this market will grow by about 600% over the next 10 years. Now, 10 years is a long time. But over the next five years, we expect to see gradual growth as people start to learn how to use it. The problem is not that it's not useful, its that people don't know how to use it. So let me explain before I go any further what a graph database is because some of the folks on the call may not know what it is. A graph database organizes data according to a mathematical structure called a graph. The graph has elements called nodes and edges. So a data element drops into a node, the nodes are connected by edges, the edges connect one node to another node. Combinations of edges create structures that you can analyze to determine how things are related. In some cases, the nodes and edges can have properties attached to them which add additional informative material that makes it richer, that's called a property graph. There are two principle use cases for graph databases. There's semantic property graphs, which are use to break down human language texts into the semantic structures. Then you can search it, organize it and answer complicated questions. A lot of AI is aimed at semantic graphs. Another kind is the property graph that I just mentioned, which has a dazzling number of use cases. I want to just point out as I talk about this, people are probably wondering, well, we have relation databases, isn't that good enough? So a relational database defines... It supports what I call definitional relationships. That means you define the relationships in a fixed structure. The database drops into that structure, there's a value, foreign key value, that relates one table to another and that value is fixed. You don't change it. If you change it, the database becomes unstable, it's not clear what you're looking at. In a graph database, the system is designed to handle change so that it can reflect the true state of the things that it's being used to track. So let me just give you some examples of use cases for this. They include entity resolution, data lineage, social media analysis, Customer 360, fraud prevention. There's cybersecurity, there's strong supply chain is a big one actually. There is explainable AI and this is going to become important too because a lot of people are adopting AI. But they want a system after the fact to say, how do the AI system come to that conclusion? How did it make that recommendation? Right now we don't have really good ways of tracking that. Machine learning in general, social network, I already mentioned that. And then we've got, oh gosh, we've got data governance, data compliance, risk management. We've got recommendation, we've got personalization, anti money laundering, that's another big one, identity and access management, network and IT operations is already becoming a key one where you actually have mapped out your operation, you know, whatever it is, your data center and you can track what's going on as things happen there, root cause analysis, fraud detection is a huge one. A number of major credit card companies use graph databases for fraud detection, risk analysis, tracking and tracing turn analysis, next best action, what if analysis, impact analysis, entity resolution and I would add one other thing or just a few other things to this list, metadata management. So Sanjeev, here you go, this is your engine. Because I was in metadata management for quite a while in my past life. And one of the things I found was that none of the data management technologies that were available to us could efficiently handle metadata because of the kinds of structures that result from it, but graphs can, okay? Graphs can do things like say, this term in this context means this, but in that context, it means that, okay? Things like that. And in fact, logistics management, supply chain. And also because it handles recursive relationships, by recursive relationships I mean objects that own other objects that are of the same type. You can do things like build materials, you know, so like parts explosion. Or you can do an HR analysis, who reports to whom, how many levels up the chain and that kind of thing. You can do that with relational databases, but yet it takes a lot of programming. In fact, you can do almost any of these things with relational databases, but the problem is, you have to program it. It's not supported in the database. And whenever you have to program something, that means you can't trace it, you can't define it. You can't publish it in terms of its functionality and it's really, really hard to maintain over time. >> Carl, thank you. I wonder if we could bring Brad in, I mean. Brad, I'm sitting here wondering, okay, is this incremental to the market? Is it disruptive and replacement? What are your thoughts on this phase? >> It's already disrupted the market. I mean, like Carl said, go to any bank and ask them are you using graph databases to get fraud detection under control? And they'll say, absolutely, that's the only way to solve this problem. And it is frankly. And it's the only way to solve a lot of the problems that Carl mentioned. And that is, I think it's Achilles heel in some ways. Because, you know, it's like finding the best way to cross the seven bridges of Koenigsberg. You know, it's always going to kind of be tied to those use cases because it's really special and it's really unique and because it's special and it's unique, it's still unfortunately kind of stands apart from the rest of the community that's building, let's say AI outcomes, as a great example here. Graph databases and AI, as Carl mentioned, are like chocolate and peanut butter. But technologically, you think don't know how to talk to one another, they're completely different. And you know, you can't just stand up SQL and query them. You've got to learn, know what is the Carl? Specter special. Yeah, thank you to, to actually get to the data in there. And if you're going to scale that data, that graph database, especially a property graph, if you're going to do something really complex, like try to understand you know, all of the metadata in your organization, you might just end up with, you know, a graph database winter like we had the AI winter simply because you run out of performance to make the thing happen. So, I think it's already disrupted, but we need to like treat it like a first-class citizen in the data analytics and AI community. We need to bring it into the fold. We need to equip it with the tools it needs to do the magic it does and to do it not just for specialized use cases, but for everything. 'Cause I'm with Carl. I think it's absolutely revolutionary. >> Brad identified the principal, Achilles' heel of the technology which is scaling. When these things get large and complex enough that they spill over what a single server can handle, you start to have difficulties because the relationships span things that have to be resolved over a network and then you get network latency and that slows the system down. So that's still a problem to be solved. >> Sanjeev, any quick thoughts on this? I mean, I think metadata on the word cloud is going to be the largest font, but what are your thoughts here? >> I want to (indistinct) So people don't associate me with only metadata, so I want to talk about something slightly different. dbengines.com has done an amazing job. I think almost everyone knows that they chronicle all the major databases that are in use today. In January of 2022, there are 381 databases on a ranked list of databases. The largest category is RDBMS. The second largest category is actually divided into two property graphs and IDF graphs. These two together make up the second largest number databases. So talking about Achilles heel, this is a problem. The problem is that there's so many graph databases to choose from. They come in different shapes and forms. To Brad's point, there's so many query languages in RDBMS, in SQL. I know the story, but here We've got cipher, we've got gremlin, we've got GQL and then we're proprietary languages. So I think there's a lot of disparity in this space. >> Well, excellent. All excellent points, Sanjeev, if I must say. And that is a problem that the languages need to be sorted and standardized. People need to have a roadmap as to what they can do with it. Because as you say, you can do so many things. And so many of those things are unrelated that you sort of say, well, what do we use this for? And I'm reminded of the saying I learned a bunch of years ago. And somebody said that the digital computer is the only tool man has ever device that has no particular purpose. (panelists chuckle) >> All right guys, we got to move on to Dave Menninger. We've heard about streaming. Your prediction is in that realm, so please take it away. >> Sure. So I like to say that historical databases are going to become a thing of the past. By that I don't mean that they're going to go away, that's not my point. I mean, we need historical databases, but streaming data is going to become the default way in which we operate with data. So in the next say three to five years, I would expect that data platforms and we're using the term data platforms to represent the evolution of databases and data lakes, that the data platforms will incorporate these streaming capabilities. We're going to process data as it streams into an organization and then it's going to roll off into historical database. So historical databases don't go away, but they become a thing of the past. They store the data that occurred previously. And as data is occurring, we're going to be processing it, we're going to be analyzing it, we're going to be acting on it. I mean we only ever ended up with historical databases because we were limited by the technology that was available to us. Data doesn't occur in patches. But we processed it in patches because that was the best we could do. And it wasn't bad and we've continued to improve and we've improved and we've improved. But streaming data today is still the exception. It's not the rule, right? There are projects within organizations that deal with streaming data. But it's not the default way in which we deal with data yet. And so that's my prediction is that this is going to change, we're going to have streaming data be the default way in which we deal with data and how you label it and what you call it. You know, maybe these databases and data platforms just evolved to be able to handle it. But we're going to deal with data in a different way. And our research shows that already, about half of the participants in our analytics and data benchmark research, are using streaming data. You know, another third are planning to use streaming technologies. So that gets us to about eight out of 10 organizations need to use this technology. And that doesn't mean they have to use it throughout the whole organization, but it's pretty widespread in its use today and has continued to grow. If you think about the consumerization of IT, we've all been conditioned to expect immediate access to information, immediate responsiveness. You know, we want to know if an item is on the shelf at our local retail store and we can go in and pick it up right now. You know, that's the world we live in and that's spilling over into the enterprise IT world We have to provide those same types of capabilities. So that's my prediction, historical databases become a thing of the past, streaming data becomes the default way in which we operate with data. >> All right thank you David. Well, so what say you, Carl, the guy who has followed historical databases for a long time? >> Well, one thing actually, every database is historical because as soon as you put data in it, it's now history. They'll no longer reflect the present state of things. But even if that history is only a millisecond old, it's still history. But I would say, I mean, I know you're trying to be a little bit provocative in saying this Dave 'cause you know, as well as I do that people still need to do their taxes, they still need to do accounting, they still need to run general ledger programs and things like that. That all involves historical data. That's not going to go away unless you want to go to jail. So you're going to have to deal with that. But as far as the leading edge functionality, I'm totally with you on that. And I'm just, you know, I'm just kind of wondering if this requires a change in the way that we perceive applications in order to truly be manifested and rethinking the way applications work. Saying that an application should respond instantly, as soon as the state of things changes. What do you say about that? >> I think that's true. I think we do have to think about things differently. It's not the way we designed systems in the past. We're seeing more and more systems designed that way. But again, it's not the default. And I agree 100% with you that we do need historical databases you know, that's clear. And even some of those historical databases will be used in conjunction with the streaming data, right? >> Absolutely. I mean, you know, let's take the data warehouse example where you're using the data warehouse as its context and the streaming data as the present and you're saying, here's the sequence of things that's happening right now. Have we seen that sequence before? And where? What does that pattern look like in past situations? And can we learn from that? >> So Tony Baer, I wonder if you could comment? I mean, when you think about, you know, real time inferencing at the edge, for instance, which is something that a lot of people talk about, a lot of what we're discussing here in this segment, it looks like it's got a great potential. What are your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, I think you nailed it right. You know, you hit it right on the head there. Which is that, what I'm seeing is that essentially. Then based on I'm going to split this one down the middle is that I don't see that basically streaming is the default. What I see is streaming and basically and transaction databases and analytics data, you know, data warehouses, data lakes whatever are converging. And what allows us technically to converge is cloud native architecture, where you can basically distribute things. So you can have a node here that's doing the real-time processing, that's also doing... And this is where it leads in or maybe doing some of that real time predictive analytics to take a look at, well look, we're looking at this customer journey what's happening with what the customer is doing right now and this is correlated with what other customers are doing. So the thing is that in the cloud, you can basically partition this and because of basically the speed of the infrastructure then you can basically bring these together and kind of orchestrate them sort of a loosely coupled manner. The other parts that the use cases are demanding, and this is part of it goes back to what Dave is saying. Is that, you know, when you look at Customer 360, when you look at let's say Smart Utility products, when you look at any type of operational problem, it has a real time component and it has an historical component. And having predictive and so like, you know, my sense here is that technically we can bring this together through the cloud. And I think the use case is that we can apply some real time sort of predictive analytics on these streams and feed this into the transactions so that when we make a decision in terms of what to do as a result of a transaction, we have this real-time input. >> Sanjeev, did you have a comment? >> Yeah, I was just going to say that to Dave's point, you know, we have to think of streaming very different because in the historical databases, we used to bring the data and store the data and then we used to run rules on top, aggregations and all. But in case of streaming, the mindset changes because the rules are normally the inference, all of that is fixed, but the data is constantly changing. So it's a completely reversed way of thinking and building applications on top of that. >> So Dave Menninger, there seem to be some disagreement about the default. What kind of timeframe are you thinking about? Is this end of decade it becomes the default? What would you pin? >> I think around, you know, between five to 10 years, I think this becomes the reality. >> I think its... >> It'll be more and more common between now and then, but it becomes the default. And I also want Sanjeev at some point, maybe in one of our subsequent conversations, we need to talk about governing streaming data. 'Cause that's a whole nother set of challenges. >> We've also talked about it rather in two dimensions, historical and streaming, and there's lots of low latency, micro batch, sub-second, that's not quite streaming, but in many cases its fast enough and we're seeing a lot of adoption of near real time, not quite real-time as good enough for many applications. (indistinct cross talk from panelists) >> Because nobody's really taking the hardware dimension (mumbles). >> That'll just happened, Carl. (panelists laughing) >> So near real time. But maybe before you lose the customer, however we define that, right? Okay, let's move on to Brad. Brad, you want to talk about automation, AI, the pipeline people feel like, hey, we can just automate everything. What's your prediction? >> Yeah I'm an AI aficionados so apologies in advance for that. But, you know, I think that we've been seeing automation play within AI for some time now. And it's helped us do a lot of things especially for practitioners that are building AI outcomes in the enterprise. It's helped them to fill skills gaps, it's helped them to speed development and it's helped them to actually make AI better. 'Cause it, you know, in some ways provide some swim lanes and for example, with technologies like AutoML can auto document and create that sort of transparency that we talked about a little bit earlier. But I think there's an interesting kind of conversion happening with this idea of automation. And that is that we've had the automation that started happening for practitioners, it's trying to move out side of the traditional bounds of things like I'm just trying to get my features, I'm just trying to pick the right algorithm, I'm just trying to build the right model and it's expanding across that full life cycle, building an AI outcome, to start at the very beginning of data and to then continue on to the end, which is this continuous delivery and continuous automation of that outcome to make sure it's right and it hasn't drifted and stuff like that. And because of that, because it's become kind of powerful, we're starting to actually see this weird thing happen where the practitioners are starting to converge with the users. And that is to say that, okay, if I'm in Tableau right now, I can stand up Salesforce Einstein Discovery, and it will automatically create a nice predictive algorithm for me given the data that I pull in. But what's starting to happen and we're seeing this from the companies that create business software, so Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, and others is that they're starting to actually use these same ideals and a lot of deep learning (chuckles) to basically stand up these out of the box flip-a-switch, and you've got an AI outcome at the ready for business users. And I am very much, you know, I think that's the way that it's going to go and what it means is that AI is slowly disappearing. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think if anything, what we're going to see in 2022 and maybe into 2023 is this sort of rush to put this idea of disappearing AI into practice and have as many of these solutions in the enterprise as possible. You can see, like for example, SAP is going to roll out this quarter, this thing called adaptive recommendation services, which basically is a cold start AI outcome that can work across a whole bunch of different vertical markets and use cases. It's just a recommendation engine for whatever you needed to do in the line of business. So basically, you're an SAP user, you look up to turn on your software one day, you're a sales professional let's say, and suddenly you have a recommendation for customer churn. Boom! It's going, that's great. Well, I don't know, I think that's terrifying. In some ways I think it is the future that AI is going to disappear like that, but I'm absolutely terrified of it because I think that what it really does is it calls attention to a lot of the issues that we already see around AI, specific to this idea of what we like to call at Omdia, responsible AI. Which is, you know, how do you build an AI outcome that is free of bias, that is inclusive, that is fair, that is safe, that is secure, that its audible, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I'd take a lot of work to do. And so if you imagine a customer that's just a Salesforce customer let's say, and they're turning on Einstein Discovery within their sales software, you need some guidance to make sure that when you flip that switch, that the outcome you're going to get is correct. And that's going to take some work. And so, I think we're going to see this move, let's roll this out and suddenly there's going to be a lot of problems, a lot of pushback that we're going to see. And some of that's going to come from GDPR and others that Sanjeev was mentioning earlier. A lot of it is going to come from internal CSR requirements within companies that are saying, "Hey, hey, whoa, hold up, we can't do this all at once. "Let's take the slow route, "let's make AI automated in a smart way." And that's going to take time. >> Yeah, so a couple of predictions there that I heard. AI simply disappear, it becomes invisible. Maybe if I can restate that. And then if I understand it correctly, Brad you're saying there's a backlash in the near term. You'd be able to say, oh, slow down. Let's automate what we can. Those attributes that you talked about are non trivial to achieve, is that why you're a bit of a skeptic? >> Yeah. I think that we don't have any sort of standards that companies can look to and understand. And we certainly, within these companies, especially those that haven't already stood up an internal data science team, they don't have the knowledge to understand when they flip that switch for an automated AI outcome that it's going to do what they think it's going to do. And so we need some sort of standard methodology and practice, best practices that every company that's going to consume this invisible AI can make use of them. And one of the things that you know, is sort of started that Google kicked off a few years back that's picking up some momentum and the companies I just mentioned are starting to use it is this idea of model cards where at least you have some transparency about what these things are doing. You know, so like for the SAP example, we know, for example, if it's convolutional neural network with a long, short term memory model that it's using, we know that it only works on Roman English and therefore me as a consumer can say, "Oh, well I know that I need to do this internationally. "So I should not just turn this on today." >> Thank you. Carl could you add anything, any context here? >> Yeah, we've talked about some of the things Brad mentioned here at IDC and our future of intelligence group regarding in particular, the moral and legal implications of having a fully automated, you know, AI driven system. Because we already know, and we've seen that AI systems are biased by the data that they get, right? So if they get data that pushes them in a certain direction, I think there was a story last week about an HR system that was recommending promotions for White people over Black people, because in the past, you know, White people were promoted and more productive than Black people, but it had no context as to why which is, you know, because they were being historically discriminated, Black people were being historically discriminated against, but the system doesn't know that. So, you know, you have to be aware of that. And I think that at the very least, there should be controls when a decision has either a moral or legal implication. When you really need a human judgment, it could lay out the options for you. But a person actually needs to authorize that action. And I also think that we always will have to be vigilant regarding the kind of data we use to train our systems to make sure that it doesn't introduce unintended biases. In some extent, they always will. So we'll always be chasing after them. But that's (indistinct). >> Absolutely Carl, yeah. I think that what you have to bear in mind as a consumer of AI is that it is a reflection of us and we are a very flawed species. And so if you look at all of the really fantastic, magical looking supermodels we see like GPT-3 and four, that's coming out, they're xenophobic and hateful because the people that the data that's built upon them and the algorithms and the people that build them are us. So AI is a reflection of us. We need to keep that in mind. >> Yeah, where the AI is biased 'cause humans are biased. All right, great. All right let's move on. Doug you mentioned mentioned, you know, lot of people that said that data lake, that term is not going to live on but here's to be, have some lakes here. You want to talk about lake house, bring it on. >> Yes, I do. My prediction is that lake house and this idea of a combined data warehouse and data lake platform is going to emerge as the dominant data management offering. I say offering that doesn't mean it's going to be the dominant thing that organizations have out there, but it's going to be the pro dominant vendor offering in 2022. Now heading into 2021, we already had Cloudera, Databricks, Microsoft, Snowflake as proponents, in 2021, SAP, Oracle, and several of all of these fabric virtualization/mesh vendors joined the bandwagon. The promise is that you have one platform that manages your structured, unstructured and semi-structured information. And it addresses both the BI analytics needs and the data science needs. The real promise there is simplicity and lower cost. But I think end users have to answer a few questions. The first is, does your organization really have a center of data gravity or is the data highly distributed? Multiple data warehouses, multiple data lakes, on premises, cloud. If it's very distributed and you'd have difficulty consolidating and that's not really a goal for you, then maybe that single platform is unrealistic and not likely to add value to you. You know, also the fabric and virtualization vendors, the mesh idea, that's where if you have this highly distributed situation, that might be a better path forward. The second question, if you are looking at one of these lake house offerings, you are looking at consolidating, simplifying, bringing together to a single platform. You have to make sure that it meets both the warehouse need and the data lake need. So you have vendors like Databricks, Microsoft with Azure Synapse. New really to the data warehouse space and they're having to prove that these data warehouse capabilities on their platforms can meet the scaling requirements, can meet the user and query concurrency requirements. Meet those tight SLS. And then on the other hand, you have the Oracle, SAP, Snowflake, the data warehouse folks coming into the data science world, and they have to prove that they can manage the unstructured information and meet the needs of the data scientists. I'm seeing a lot of the lake house offerings from the warehouse crowd, managing that unstructured information in columns and rows. And some of these vendors, Snowflake a particular is really relying on partners for the data science needs. So you really got to look at a lake house offering and make sure that it meets both the warehouse and the data lake requirement. >> Thank you Doug. Well Tony, if those two worlds are going to come together, as Doug was saying, the analytics and the data science world, does it need to be some kind of semantic layer in between? I don't know. Where are you in on this topic? >> (chuckles) Oh, didn't we talk about data fabrics before? Common metadata layer (chuckles). Actually, I'm almost tempted to say let's declare victory and go home. And that this has actually been going on for a while. I actually agree with, you know, much of what Doug is saying there. Which is that, I mean I remember as far back as I think it was like 2014, I was doing a study. I was still at Ovum, (indistinct) Omdia, looking at all these specialized databases that were coming up and seeing that, you know, there's overlap at the edges. But yet, there was still going to be a reason at the time that you would have, let's say a document database for JSON, you'd have a relational database for transactions and for data warehouse and you had basically something at that time that resembles a dupe for what we consider your data life. Fast forward and the thing is what I was seeing at the time is that you were saying they sort of blending at the edges. That was saying like about five to six years ago. And the lake house is essentially on the current manifestation of that idea. There is a dichotomy in terms of, you know, it's the old argument, do we centralize this all you know in a single place or do we virtualize? And I think it's always going to be a union yeah and there's never going to be a single silver bullet. I do see that there are also going to be questions and these are points that Doug raised. That you know, what do you need for your performance there, or for your free performance characteristics? Do you need for instance high concurrency? You need the ability to do some very sophisticated joins, or is your requirement more to be able to distribute and distribute our processing is, you know, as far as possible to get, you know, to essentially do a kind of a brute force approach. All these approaches are valid based on the use case. I just see that essentially that the lake house is the culmination of it's nothing. It's a relatively new term introduced by Databricks a couple of years ago. This is the culmination of basically what's been a long time trend. And what we see in the cloud is that as we start seeing data warehouses as a check box items say, "Hey, we can basically source data in cloud storage, in S3, "Azure Blob Store, you know, whatever, "as long as it's in certain formats, "like, you know parquet or CSP or something like that." I see that as becoming kind of a checkbox item. So to that extent, I think that the lake house, depending on how you define is already reality. And in some cases, maybe new terminology, but not a whole heck of a lot new under the sun. >> Yeah. And Dave Menninger, I mean a lot of these, thank you Tony, but a lot of this is going to come down to, you know, vendor marketing, right? Some people just kind of co-op the term, we talked about you know, data mesh washing, what are your thoughts on this? (laughing) >> Yeah, so I used the term data platform earlier. And part of the reason I use that term is that it's more vendor neutral. We've tried to sort of stay out of the vendor terminology patenting world, right? Whether the term lake houses, what sticks or not, the concept is certainly going to stick. And we have some data to back it up. About a quarter of organizations that are using data lakes today, already incorporate data warehouse functionality into it. So they consider their data lake house and data warehouse one in the same, about a quarter of organizations, a little less, but about a quarter of organizations feed the data lake from the data warehouse and about a quarter of organizations feed the data warehouse from the data lake. So it's pretty obvious that three quarters of organizations need to bring this stuff together, right? The need is there, the need is apparent. The technology is going to continue to converge. I like to talk about it, you know, you've got data lakes over here at one end, and I'm not going to talk about why people thought data lakes were a bad idea because they thought you just throw stuff in a server and you ignore it, right? That's not what a data lake is. So you've got data lake people over here and you've got database people over here, data warehouse people over here, database vendors are adding data lake capabilities and data lake vendors are adding data warehouse capabilities. So it's obvious that they're going to meet in the middle. I mean, I think it's like Tony says, I think we should declare victory and go home. >> As hell. So just a follow-up on that, so are you saying the specialized lake and the specialized warehouse, do they go away? I mean, Tony data mesh practitioners would say or advocates would say, well, they could all live. It's just a node on the mesh. But based on what Dave just said, are we gona see those all morphed together? >> Well, number one, as I was saying before, there's always going to be this sort of, you know, centrifugal force or this tug of war between do we centralize the data, do we virtualize? And the fact is I don't think that there's ever going to be any single answer. I think in terms of data mesh, data mesh has nothing to do with how you're physically implement the data. You could have a data mesh basically on a data warehouse. It's just that, you know, the difference being is that if we use the same physical data store, but everybody's logically you know, basically governing it differently, you know? Data mesh in space, it's not a technology, it's processes, it's governance process. So essentially, you know, I basically see that, you know, as I was saying before that this is basically the culmination of a long time trend we're essentially seeing a lot of blurring, but there are going to be cases where, for instance, if I need, let's say like, Upserve, I need like high concurrency or something like that. There are certain things that I'm not going to be able to get efficiently get out of a data lake. And, you know, I'm doing a system where I'm just doing really brute forcing very fast file scanning and that type of thing. So I think there always will be some delineations, but I would agree with Dave and with Doug, that we are seeing basically a confluence of requirements that we need to essentially have basically either the element, you know, the ability of a data lake and the data warehouse, these need to come together, so I think. >> I think what we're likely to see is organizations look for a converge platform that can handle both sides for their center of data gravity, the mesh and the fabric virtualization vendors, they're all on board with the idea of this converged platform and they're saying, "Hey, we'll handle all the edge cases "of the stuff that isn't in that center of data gravity "but that is off distributed in a cloud "or at a remote location." So you can have that single platform for the center of your data and then bring in virtualization, mesh, what have you, for reaching out to the distributed data. >> As Dave basically said, people are happy when they virtualized data. >> I think we have at this point, but to Dave Menninger's point, they are converging, Snowflake has introduced support for unstructured data. So obviously literally splitting here. Now what Databricks is saying is that "aha, but it's easy to go from data lake to data warehouse "than it is from databases to data lake." So I think we're getting into semantics, but we're already seeing these two converge. >> So take somebody like AWS has got what? 15 data stores. Are they're going to 15 converge data stores? This is going to be interesting to watch. All right, guys, I'm going to go down and list do like a one, I'm going to one word each and you guys, each of the analyst, if you would just add a very brief sort of course correction for me. So Sanjeev, I mean, governance is going to to be... Maybe it's the dog that wags the tail now. I mean, it's coming to the fore, all this ransomware stuff, which you really didn't talk much about security, but what's the one word in your prediction that you would leave us with on governance? >> It's going to be mainstream. >> Mainstream. Okay. Tony Baer, mesh washing is what I wrote down. That's what we're going to see in 2022, a little reality check, you want to add to that? >> Reality check, 'cause I hope that no vendor jumps the shark and close they're offering a data niche product. >> Yeah, let's hope that doesn't happen. If they do, we're going to call them out. Carl, I mean, graph databases, thank you for sharing some high growth metrics. I know it's early days, but magic is what I took away from that, so magic database. >> Yeah, I would actually, I've said this to people too. I kind of look at it as a Swiss Army knife of data because you can pretty much do anything you want with it. That doesn't mean you should. I mean, there's definitely the case that if you're managing things that are in fixed schematic relationship, probably a relation database is a better choice. There are times when the document database is a better choice. It can handle those things, but maybe not. It may not be the best choice for that use case. But for a great many, especially with the new emerging use cases I listed, it's the best choice. >> Thank you. And Dave Menninger, thank you by the way, for bringing the data in, I like how you supported all your comments with some data points. But streaming data becomes the sort of default paradigm, if you will, what would you add? >> Yeah, I would say think fast, right? That's the world we live in, you got to think fast. >> Think fast, love it. And Brad Shimmin, love it. I mean, on the one hand I was saying, okay, great. I'm afraid I might get disrupted by one of these internet giants who are AI experts. I'm going to be able to buy instead of build AI. But then again, you know, I've got some real issues. There's a potential backlash there. So give us your bumper sticker. >> I'm would say, going with Dave, think fast and also think slow to talk about the book that everyone talks about. I would say really that this is all about trust, trust in the idea of automation and a transparent and visible AI across the enterprise. And verify, verify before you do anything. >> And then Doug Henschen, I mean, I think the trend is your friend here on this prediction with lake house is really becoming dominant. I liked the way you set up that notion of, you know, the data warehouse folks coming at it from the analytics perspective and then you get the data science worlds coming together. I still feel as though there's this piece in the middle that we're missing, but your, your final thoughts will give you the (indistinct). >> I think the idea of consolidation and simplification always prevails. That's why the appeal of a single platform is going to be there. We've already seen that with, you know, DoOP platforms and moving toward cloud, moving toward object storage and object storage, becoming really the common storage point for whether it's a lake or a warehouse. And that second point, I think ESG mandates are going to come in alongside GDPR and things like that to up the ante for good governance. >> Yeah, thank you for calling that out. Okay folks, hey that's all the time that we have here, your experience and depth of understanding on these key issues on data and data management really on point and they were on display today. I want to thank you for your contributions. Really appreciate your time. >> Enjoyed it. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having me. >> In addition to this video, we're going to be making available transcripts of the discussion. We're going to do clips of this as well we're going to put them out on social media. I'll write this up and publish the discussion on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. No doubt, several of the analysts on the panel will take the opportunity to publish written content, social commentary or both. I want to thank the power panelists and thanks for watching this special CUBE presentation. This is Dave Vellante, be well and we'll see you next time. (bright music)

>> Narrator: From the CUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a cube conversation. >> Hi, Lisa Martin here with Caitlin Gordon, the VP of product marketing for Dell technologies, Caitlin, welcome back to the CUBE, we're excited to see you again. >> Caitlyn: I'm very excited to be here again. >> So data protection in the news what's going on? >> Yeah, it's been a busy year, we had obviously our Power Protect DD appliance launch last year. And then this year we've had announcements on the software side. We had announcements at VMworld, some more at Dell Technologies World. And now today we're announcing even more which is the new Power Protect the DP series appliances the new integrated appliances. And it's really exciting. So we now have our Power Protect DD, the next generation of data domain, and we have our power protect DP appliances integrated appliances. And that's all about combining both protection storage, protects and software in a single converge, all in one offering. That's really popular with our customers today, because of the simplicity the ability to really modernize your data protection in a very simple way, get up really up and running quickly. And in fact, it's really the fastest growing part of the backup appliance market. >> Yeah, I have read that the integrated appliances our market is growing twice as fast as the targeted market. So give us a picture of what customers can expect from the new DP series. >> Yeah, it's not that dissimilar to actually our DD series from last year, which is there's four models in the new DP series. And it's really all about getting better performance, better efficiency. We've got new hardware, assisted compression, denser drives, and all that gives us the ability to get faster backups faster recovery, In fact, you get 38% faster up backups, 45% faster recovery, more logical capacity, 30% more logical capacity, 65 to one deduplication which is just incredible and 60,000 IOPS for instant access. So really ups the game, both in performance and efficiency. >> Those are big numbers. You mentioned the DD launch last year, contrast it with what you're announcing now. What's the significance of the DP series? >> This is exciting for us because it does a couple of things. It expands our power protect appliance family, with the new DP series of integrated appliances. But at the same time, we're also announcing other important Power Protect enhancements on the software side. Power Protect data manager which we've been enhancing and continuing to talk about all year also has some new improvements the ability to deploy it in Azure and AWS gov cloud for in-cloud protection. The enhancements that we've done with VMware that we talked about, not that long ago at VM world about being able to integrate with based policy management really automating and simplifying VMware protection. And it's really all about kuberetes, right? And the ability to support kubernetes as well. So not only is this an exciting appliance launch for us but it's also the marketing of yet even more enhancements on the Power Protect data manager side and all that together, it means that with Power Protect, you really have a one-stop shop for all of your data protection needs no matter where the data lives, no matter what SLA, whether it's a physical virtual appliance, whether it's target or integrated, you've all got them in the Power Protect family now. >> Excellent. All right. Last question for you Caitlin, we know Dell technologies is focused on three big waves, it's cloud VMware and cyber recovery. Anything else you want to add here? >> Cyber resiliency, cyber recovery Ransomware has really risen to the top of the list. Unfortunately for many organizations and Power Protect cyber recovery is really an important enhancement that we also have with this announcement today. We've had this offering in market for a couple years with the exciting new enhancement here. So it is the first cyber recovery solution endorsed by sheltered Harbor. And if you're not familiar with Power Protect cyber recovery it provides an automated air gaped solution for data isolation, and then cyber sense provides the analytics and the forensics for discovering, diagnosing, and remediating those attacks. So it's really all about ransomware protecting from, recovering from those attacks, which unfortunately have become all too common for our customers today. >> Excellent news Caitlin. Thanks for sharing. What's new congratulations to you and the Dell team. >> Thank you so much, Lisa, >> For Caitlin Gordon, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube. (outro music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is "theCUBE' conversation. >> Hi, Lisa Martin here with Caitlin Gordon, the VP of Product Marketing for Dell Technologies. Caitlin, welcome back to 'theCUBE' I'm excited to see you again. >> I'm very excited to be here again. >> So data protection in the news, what's going on? >> Yeah you know, it's been a busy year. We had obviously our power protect DD appliance launched last year and then this year, we've have announcements on the software side. We had announcements at the VMworld some more at Dell Technologies world. And now today we're announcing even more, which is the new PowerProtect PP series appliances, the new integrated appliances. And it's really exciting. So we now have our PowerProtect DD,xx the next generation of data domain, and we have our PowerProtect DP appliances, integrated appliances. And that's all about combining both protection storage, protecting software in a single converge, all in one offering. It's really popular with our customers today because of the simplicity, the ability to really modernize your data protection in a very simple way, get up really up and running quickly. And in fact, it's really the fastest growing part of the back of appliance market. >> I have read that the integrated appliances, our market is growing twice as fast as the targeted market. So give us a picture of what customers can expect from the new DP series. >> Yeah, and it's not that dissimilar to actually our DD series from last year which is there's in four models in the new DP series. There's a 4,400 which is actually now taking the PowerProtect brand and putting that on the existing DP 4,400 and then three new appliances: the 5,900, the 8,400 and then the 8,900. And it's really all about getting better performance, better efficiency. We've got new hardware, assisted compression, denser drives, and all that gives us the ability to get faster backups, faster recovery, in fact you get 38% faster backups, 45% faster recovery, more logical capacity, 30% more logical capacity, 65 to one theater application, which is just incredible and 60,000 IOPS for instant access. So really ups the game, both in performance and an efficiency. >> Those are big numbers, you mentioned the DD launch last year, contrast it with what you're announcing now. What's the significance of the DP series? >> And that this is exciting for us because it does a couple things. It expands our PowerProtect appliance family with the new DP series of integrated appliances. But at the same time, we're also announcing other important PowerProtect enhancements. On the software side, PowerProtect data manager, which we've enhancing and continuing to talk about all year also has some new improvements. The ability deploy it in Azure, in AWS GovCloud for in-cloud protection. The enhancements that we've done with VMware that we talked about, not that long ago at VMworld about being able to integrate with storage based policy management, really automating and simplifying VMware protection. And it's really all about Kubernetes right And the ability to support Kubernetes as well. So not only is this an exciting appliance launch for us, but it's also the marketing of yet even more enhancements on the PowerProtect data manager side. And all that together means that with PowerProtect, you really have a one-stop shop for all of your data protection needs no matter where the data lives, no matter what SLA, whether it's a physical, virtual appliance, whether it's target or integrated, you've all bought them in the PowerProtect family now. >> Excellent. All right. Last question for you, Caitlin we know Dell Technologies is focused on three big waves, it's cloud VMware and Cyber Recovery. Anything else you want to add here? Yeah, I'll pick up, especially on that last one, we talke%d a little bit about the enhancements we've done with cloud in cloud data protection, longterm recovery, disaster recovery, as well as what we've done on the VMware front, really important that we continue to have that automation at simplicity with VM-ware but cyber resiliency, cyber recovery ransomware has really risen to the top of the list. Unfortunately for many organizations and PowerProtect cyber recovery is really an important enhancement that we also have with this announcement today. We've had this offer in market for a couple of years, with the exciting new enhancement here. It is the first cyber recovery solution and endorsed by Sheltered Harbor. So it is the first Cyber Recovery solution endorsed by Sheltered Harbor. And if you're not familiar with PowerProtect data, PowerProtect, if you're not familiar with PowerProtect cyber recovery, it provides an automated air gapped solution for data isolation and then cyber sense provides the analytics and the forensics for discovering, diagnosing and remediating those attacks. So it's really all about ransomware protecting from protecting from or covering from those attacks, which unfortunately have become all too common for our customers today. >> Excellent news, Caitlin. Thanks for sharing what's new congratulations to you and the Dell team. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. >> For Cait%lin Gordon I'm Lisa Martin. You're watch%ing 'theCUBE'. (calm music)

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. PALO ALTO, California It is a cute conversation, >> living welcome to this special Cuba conversation in Palo Alto, California We're here with our friends on Twitter and influences in the cloud computing edge and open source game. We have our distinguished power panel here talking about if every tech company, every company should be a tech company. And what does it mean in the air of a modern infrastructure? Police to have my kale with ct of everest dot org's from most Gatto's California Rob Hirschfeld, founder and CEO of Rock n Calling in From Where You Calling in from >> Austin, Texas. >> Austin, Texas. Good to have you and Mark Theo Who's with EJ Gravity brand New opportunity. Congratulations calling in Las Vegas. Thanks for coming in, guys. Thanks for spending the time on this cube power panel from the influencers. Always great to see you guys on Twitter with this morning. I woke up, was very active at a Crouch said earlier this morning. And Mark, you wrote a post that got my attention. So I think you hit a nerve that has been sparking around the Internets around the role of technology as couples, they're starting to rethink and building out there enterprise architectures in their businesses. And we're seeing some signals around cybersecurity. Dev Ops certainly has been kind of banging on this drum with cloud computing, and that is that the role of technology plays as a percentage of the business part of the business. And your tweet was simply put, you said every bit. If every business needs to become a tech business, it business has to decide to own its own infrastructure something of that effect, which which triggered me because it's like That's a good question. It isn't just a part of an organization supporting it. Tech is becoming much more instrumental. So I want to get your reaction. What was the motivation behind that tweet? What's your what's your What was your point around it? >> Yeah, I mean, like many of my tweets, they're poorly worded and rushed out, so you know, it's not as clear as it could have been. But the real point of the message wasn't Thio highlight that a technology company has to be all in the cloud or has to own its infrastructure, but rather as a company makes a change towards becoming a technology company. I mean, if we go back Thio you know, 1995 or 1996 when we wanted a library, we went to the library. But now we have Google. We didn't know that Google was gonna become an online the equivalent of a library. But it became a digital company before anybody asked for that solution or anybody was running that kind of solution in some sort of company format and then changed it over. But, you know, Google Facebook, Microsoft's into it. Adobe PayPal. We could go down the long list there. All I t cos in the end, whether you call the technology that they built to run their businesses engineering with a CTO or I t. Is the material. They are in fact, large giant I t organizations that do what they do to make money. And so, as more companies look to make the change as digital transformation takes hold as more efforts are presented to try to get a closer handle on customers to build loyalty with customers, create new engagement models, maybe at the edge, even in traditional application environments, then companies have to make a decision about how they're going toe oh, nightie and whether they're goingto own any portion of the infrastructure of I T. And if they're going to do that, then I don't think that there's any question that they have to own it. Atleast following a model of the way the large providers and the facebooks, et cetera have provided for us cannot continue. In other words, what I've been known to say before, we can't continue to throw more hardware and people at the problem. >> My mike, I want to get your thoughts on this because one of the things that I know you have been involved a lot with security on dhe I t. As well in security, which which is a canary in the coal mine. For a lot of these architectural decisions are all kind of looking at how they hire and build on premise in house around tech stacks. And one of the things that became apparent to me at Amazon Aws reinforce, which is their Amazons first cloud security conference, was most of the ceases. When I talk privately was saying, we don't really believe in multi cloud. We have multiple clouds, but We're investing in people on certain stacks that fit our guiding principles of what we're building as a company. And they said we then go to the suppliers and saying, Here's the AP eyes we want you to support So you start to see the shift from being hiring the general purpose software vendors to come in and supply them with I t stuff Were hardware. As Mark pointed out, too much more, the customer saying No, no, this is our spec build that we built it. And so the trend that points to the trend of a reinvestment of building tech at the core of the business, which would imply to Mark's point around their tech companies. What's your thoughts on this? >> So a nuance. My answer. I think their tech enabled companies more than tech companies like Tech is enabling, whether it's Google or into it or pay power of the other companies. Mark mentioned technologies the base of their companies stack, um, then to go into your security portion, security has to be architected and embedded into the core solutions not bolted on after the fact with vendor solutions like it is today, and I think we've proven time and time again, including the capital one issue as a day or two ago that the current approaches are not working. And, uh, I agree with whomever See says you've been talking thio like being driving a P I integrations and be consumptive of them and telling what you need to build is a much better approach. Would you want to build a custom house with that actually talking to your builder and finding out later? What? What features and pictures have been installed in your home. But what do you wanna have a hand in that from the ground up? I think that's the mischief. >> Well, I want to come back to the capital. One point that's gonna be a separate talk track. So let's hold that thought. Rob, I want to go to you. Because StarBeat Joel, whose prolific on these threads you know, posting is nice Twitter cards on their um, he said, If you know, talk about leasing out extra capacity in a private data centers question Mark, you know, teasing out the question. And then Ben Haines responded and said, Why the hell would you want to be in that business when you have a real business to run again to what Mark was saying about, You know, Tech is going to be everywhere. Why should I even be in the data center? Because I don't want to be in that business. I gotta figure out Tech for the business. So Ben kind of brings that practitioner perspective. What's your thought? Because you're in the middle of this with the devil's movement. Bare metal, big part of it, Your thoughts. >> Yeah, And that's why we really focus on fixing the bear mental problem. Andi, I want to come back to where a bear metal fits with all this because you really can't get away from bare metal. I think the first question is really is every day to send is every business in I t business. And you know, not every business is a Google and strictly a nighty business. But what we're seeing with machine learning and Internet of things and just extension of what was traditionally siloed I t or data center, I t into everyday operations. You can't get away from the fact that if you're not able to take in the data, work with the data, manipulate and understand what your customers were doing. Then you are going to be behind. That's That's how you're gonna lose. You're gonna be out of business on. So I think that what we're doing is we're redefining business into not just a product that you're selling, but understanding how your customers air interacting with that product, what value they're getting from it. We really redefined supply chain in a very transformative way compared to anything else. And that's an I T enabled transformation. >> Ben brings up a good point, but the Brent wanted Friends Point is essentially teasing out mark and yourself a bare metal. All this stuff is complicated. Cut and make investments. Ben's teasing as What the hell business do you want to be in? I think that becomes a lot of this digital transformation. Conversation is Hey, Cloud is an easy decision. We were start up 10 years ago. We don't have I t. We have 50 plus people on growing. We're all in the cloud. That's fine for us. Dropbox started in the cloud. All these guys started class. It's easy as hell to do it. No, no debate there. But as you start thinking, Maurin Maur integration as a big enterprise which wasn't born in the cloud. This is where the transformations happening is what business? What the hell they doing? What's what's the purpose of their >> visit? Yeah, but the reality of you, a cloud infrastructure and how cloud infrastructure is structured does not really take you away from owning how you operate and run that infrastructure, right Amazons than an amazing marketing job of telling everybody that they're not smart enough to run their own infrastructure. And it's just not true way definitely let operations get very lax. We built up a lot of technical debt that we we need to be able to fix. An Amazon walked in and said, This is too hard for you. Let us take it off your plate. But the reality is people using Amazon still have toe owned their operations of that infrastructure. The capital one didn't doesn't get to just get a pass and say, I used Amazon. Oh, well, Too bad. Talk to them. You still own your infrastructure. >> Technically, it wasn't Amazons fall, so let's get the capital. One is this brings up a good point. Converged infrastructure was the Holy Grail, savior for the I t If you go back when we started doing Cuba interviews, stupidity and I would talk about converged is awesome. You got Nutanix kicked ass and grew like crazy. And so then you have the converge kind of meat's maker. When it sees the cloud, it's like, OK, I got great converged infrastructure, but yet the breach on capital one had nothing to do with a W s. It was basically an s three bucket that the firewall Miss configured. So it was really Amazon was a victim of its simplicity there. I mean, there's a >> I mean, this is this is what we're talking about with. To me with this tweet is that we need to look, we need to be better at operating the infrastructure we have, whether it's Amazon or physical assets on your premises. What we've really done is we've eroded our ability to manage those pieces well and do it in a way that builds on itself. And so as soon as we can get on improvement there, I mean, this this is where I went with this threat is if we can really improve our operational efficiency with the infrastructure we have, whether it's in the cloud on premises. You create benefits there than everything you build on top of that is gonna have a nim prove mint, right. We're gonna change the way we look at infrastructure. Amazons already done that on. We think about infrastructure in cloud terms, but I don't think that what they've done is the end destination. They just taught us how to be better running infrastructure. >> Well, it brings up that it brings up the point, and I have so Mike shaking his head to get his thought and mark on this. If I is that I tease problem our operational technologies problem because the world's not as simple as it used to be. It was not. It wasn't. It's not simple. You got edge. You get externally incest cloud players now multi cloud. So information technology teams and operational technology teams whose fault is it? Who is responsible thing? Could you just had a AI bots managing the the filtering and access to history buckets that could have been automated away? What, Whose problem was it? Operations, technology or I t. >> So that I think, to touch upon what Rob was talking about. There's my chain and technology, uh, from the classic sound byte is people process and technology. The core cause of literally every security breach, including capital one is a lack of sophisticated process and the root cause being people, and there's no amount of a I currently that can fix that. So you have to start focusing on your operational supply chain processes, which has, Rob said. Amazon has really solidified, and the company should look to emulate that forces trying to emulate the cloud infrastructure and some of your processed and your people challenges first. And then you can leverage the technology. >> Great point. Totally agree with you on that one >> market. Yeah, I would agree with everything that both Mike and Rob just said, and I would just add that we we don't have any choice but to face the future. That is, I t. And in order to provide the best possible service to our customers for our applications that even haven't been built yet, we have to look at the service is that are available to us and utilize them the best way possible and then find appropriate management and, like so correctly put it supply chain processes for managing them. So I've talked to people who are building unique cloud platforms internally to solve a specific business problem in ways that the individual clouds offered by the Big Three is an example can't do or can't do as well or can't do is cheaply. And the same thing applies to customers who are just using more than one of the big cloud providers. Even for some in some cases, for workloads. That might seem similar because each of the clouds provide a different opportunity associated with that specific set of requirements. And so we don't have any choice but to manage it better. And whether it's we make a choice to use it in our data center because it's more cost effective long term. And that's our single most important driver. Or whether we decide to leverage every tool in our tool belt, which includes a handful of cloud providers. And some we do our own, um, or we put it all in one cloud. It doesn't change our responsibility for owning it correctly, right? And my simple message really was that you have to figure out how to own and I'll steal from Mike again. You have to figure out how to own that supply chain. But more lower down more base is ifs. Part of that supply chain is delivering compute into a data center or environment that you own. Then you have to find the tools capabilities to ensure that you're not making the kind of mistakes that were made with capital or >> or, if you have tools are networks and tools you don't know and look at the quotes. So called scare with the China hack from Super Micro. That's a silly why chain problems? Well, it's on the silicon. So again, back to the process, people an equation. I think that's right on this brings us kind of through the next talking track. I want to get your thoughts on, which is cloud two point. Oh, I mean, I'm putting that term out there on Lee is a provocative way. Remember, Web to point. It works so well in debating about what it what it was. If one if cloud one data was Amazon Web service is, thank you very much. Public cloud. You could say cloud two point. Oh, our second inning would be just what happens next because you're seeing now a confluence of different dynamics edge, um, security, industrial edge. And then you know this all coming into on premises, which is hybrid and public, all working together. And then you throw multi cloud in there from a complexity standpoint. Do you wanna have support Microsoft's Stack, Azure Stack, Google and Amazon? This is this is the fundamental 2.0 question. Because things are more real time. Things are data specific. This costs involved. There's really network innovation needed what you guys thoughts on cloud to point out. >> I think the basic cloud 2.0, is moving to the shared responsibility model. And we should stop blaming people for teams for breaches as architectures become much more complex, including network computing, storage and in service orchestration layers like kubernetes, no one team or individual, individual or one team and manage all of that. So you're all responsible for infrastructure, scalability, performance and security. So I think it's the cultural movement more than the technology movement at the base of >> Rob. What's your definition? Cloud 2.0, from your perspective. >> Oh boy, I've been calling it Post Cloud Is my feeling on this? Yeah, it to me. It's it's about rethinking the way we automate. Um, you know, we really learned that we had to interact with infrastructure via automation and eliminate the human risk elements of. This doesn't mean that we have an automation is foolproof either It's not, but what? What I think we've seen is that people have really understood that we have to bring the type of automation and power that we're seeing in clouding the benefits because they're very riel. But back into everything that we do. There's no doubt in my mind that infrastructure is moving back into the environment. Where is what? Which is EJ from my perspective, and we'll see computing in a much more distributed way and those benefits and getting that right in the automation. Is this necessary to run autonomous zero touch infrastructure in environmental situations. That is gonna be justice transformative, freighted that that environment makes the cloud look easy. Frankly, >> Mark, what's your take? I want to get because, you know, security houses, one element get self driving cars. You got kind of a new front end of of EJ devices, whether it's a Serie Buy Me a song on iTunes, which has to go out to a traditional system and purchase a song. But that that Siri priest is different than what? The back end? Does this simply database, Get it? Moving over self driving cars, You're seeing all kinds of EJ industrial activity. You know, the debate of moving compute to the data. You got Amazon with ground station, all these new infrastructure physical activities going on that needs software to power it. What, you're in cloud to point. It seems to be a nice place not just for analytics, but for operational thing. Your thoughts on cloud to point out >> Well, I mean you you describe the opportunity relatively well. I could certainly go in. I've spent a lot of time going into detail about what EJ might mean and what might populate edge and why people would use it. But I think from if we just look at it from a cloud 2.0, standpoint, maybe I'm oversimplifying. But I would say, you know, if you add on to what Mike and Rob already so well pointed out is that it's best fit right, it's best fit from compute location, Thio CPU type Thio platform on, and historically, for I t they've always had to make pragmatic choice is that I believe, limit their ability on Helped to create Maur you know, legacy Tech that they have to manage, um on and create overhead tech debt, as they call it on DSO. I think judo. And in my book the best case for two Dato is that I can put best fit work where I need it when I need it for as long as I need it. >> That's that's really kind of gasp originals. Well, people got to get the software stood up. That's where I think Kubernetes has shown a nice position. I want to extend this track to another thought, another topic around networking. So if you look at the three pillars of computing computing mean industry, compute storage and networking, cloud one daughter, you can say pretty much compute storage did a good job. Amazon has a C two as three. Everything went great. Networking always got taken to the wood shed. You know, networking was getting, you know, people were pissing and moaning about networking. But if you look at kind of things were just talking about networking seems to be an area that this cloud 2.0, could innovate on. So wanna get each of your thoughts on? If you could throw the magic wand out there around the network doesn't take the same track as Dev ops that gets abstracted away because you see VM wear now doing deals. All the cloud providers they got they're going after Cisco with the networking PCC Cisco trying to be relevant. The big guys you got edge, which is power and network connection. You need those things. So what is the role of the network? And two point If you guys could wave the magic wand and have something magically happen or innovate, what would it be? >> Oh, wait, it's part complaining. It's your world. You know, it's ironic that I said this Thio competitors to my most previous company. Ericsson Company was away. They asked me after an event in San everything was a cloud expo. I just got off stage and the gentleman came up to me and asked me So mark you the way you talked about Cloud. I appreciate the comments you made yada, yada, yada. But what do you think about networking? And I said Well, network big problem right now is that you can't follow cloud assumptions as faras usage characteristics and deployment characteristics with networking. When that problem is solved, will have moved light years ahead in how people can use and deploy i t. Because it doesn't matter if you can define workload opportunity in 30 minutes on an edge device somewhere or on a new set of data centers belonging to Google or 10 Cent or anybody else. If you can't treat the network with same functionality and flexibility and speed to value that, you can the cloud then, um, it's Unfortunately, you're really reducing your opportunity and needlessly lengthening the time to value for whatever activity it is. You're really >> so network, certainly critical in 2.0, terms have absolutely that Mike any any thoughts there? >> So I think you know, there's there's easy answers to this that are actually the answer. You know, I P v six was the answer from a couple years ago, and that hasn't solved in the fantasy of the solved. All the problems, just like five G is not gonna magically transform our edge infrastructure into this brilliant network. The reality is, networking is hard and it's hard because there's a ton of legacy embedded stuff that still has to keep working. You can't just, you know, install a new container on container system and say, I've now fixed networking. You have to deal with the globally interconnected MASH insistence. I think when we look at networking, we have to do it in a way that respects the legacy and figures out migration strategies. One of the biggest problems I see that a lot of our technology stacks here is that they just assume we're gonna pave over the problems of yesteryear, nor them and with network, when you don't get that benefit, what you described with cloud networking, never living up the potential, it's because cloud networking isn't club networking. It's it's, you know, early days of the Internet. Networking is still what we use today. It's not. It's not something you can just snap your fingers and disrupt. >> Well, I mean, networking had two major things that were big parts of a networking and who build networks knows you provisioned them and you have policy stuff that runs on them, right? You moving paintings from A to B, then you got networks you don't own right so that's kind of pedestrian, old thinking. But if you want to make networks programmable to me, it just seems like they just seem to be so much more there that needs to be developed, not just moving package. Well, >> you just said it's traditional. Networks were built first, and the infrastructure was then built around them or leveraging them, so you need to take like in zero. Trust paper. When Bugsy Siegel built Las Vegas, he built the town first and then put the roads around the infrastructure. So you need to take that approach with networking. You need to have the core infrastructure of first and then lay down the networking around to support it. And, as Mark said, that needs to be much more real time or programmable. So moving from ah, hardware to find to a software to find model, I think, is how you fix networking. It's not gonna be fixed by a new protocol or set of protocols or adding more policies or complexity to it, >> so you see a lot of change then, based on that, I'd take away that you see change coming to networking in a big way because Vegas we're gonna build >> our if it has to happen. The current way is not working. And that's why we need the bottlenecks. Wherever >> Mark you live in is the traffic's brutal. But, you know, still e gotta figure out, You know, they got some more roads. The bill change coming. What are your thoughts on the change coming with this networking paradigm >> show? I mean, there are a few companies in the space already. I'm going to refuse to name anyway at this point because one of them is a partner of my new company, not my new company, but the new company I work for and I don't want to leave them out of the discussion. But there are several companies in the space right now that are attempting to do just then just that from centralized locations, helping customers to more rapidly deploy network services to and from cloud or two and from other data centers in a chain of data centers. Programmatically as we've talked about. But in the long run, your ability to lay down networking from your office without having to create new firewall rules and spend months on on contract language and things like that on being able to take a slice of the network you already have and deploy it on DDE, not have to go through the complex Mpls or Or VPN set ups that are common today on defectively reroute destinations when you want to or make new connections when you need to. Is far as I'm concerned, that's vital to the success of anything we would call a cloud two point. Oh, >> well, we're gonna try tracks when he's hot startups. So you guys see anyone around this area? I love this topic. I think it's worth talking a lot more about love. Love to continue on with you guys on that another. Another time. Final five minutes. I'd love to spend with you guys talking about the the digital transformation paradox. Rob, we're talking before we came on camera. He loved this paradox because it's simply not as easy to saying Kill the old man, bringing the new and everything's gonna be hunky dorey. It's not that simple, but but it also brings up the fact that in all these major waves, the hype outlives the reality, too. So you're seeing so I want to get your thoughts on digital transformation. Each of you share your thoughts on what's come home to be realistic in digital transformation, which what hasn't showed up yet in terms of benefits and capability. >> I mean, this is this to me is one of the things that we see happen in every wave. They people jump on that bandwagon really hard, and then they tell everybody who's doing the current stuff, that they're doing it wrong. Um, and that that to me, actually does a lot more heart. What we what we've seen in places where people said, burn the boats, you know, we don't care. They have actually not managed to get traction and not create the long term sustainability that you would get if you created ways to bring things forward. Networking is a good example for that, right? Automating a firewall configuration and creating a soft firewall or virtual network function is just taking something that people understand and moving it into a much more control perspective in a lot of ways. That's what we saw with Cloud Cloud took working I t infrastructure that people understood added some change but also kept things that people 1% and so the paradox. Is that you? Is it the more you tell people, they just have to completely disrupt and break everything they've done and walk away from their no nighty infrastructure, the less actually you create these long term values. And I know there are people who really know you got totally changed everything that disrupted value. But a lot of the disrupted value comes from creating these incremental changes and then building something on top of that. So what? So >> what did what Indigenous in digital transformation, what has happened? That's positive and what hasn't happened that was supposed to happen. >> So when I look att Dev ops on what people thought we were going to do, just automate all things that turned out to be a much bigger lift than people expected. But when we started looking at pipelines and deployment pipelines and something very concrete for that which let people start in one or two places and then expand, I think I think, uh, pipelines and build deploy pipelines are transformative, right? Going from a continuously integrated system all the way to a continuously integrated data center. Yeah, that's transformative. And it's very concrete just telling people automate everything is not been as effective >> guys. Other thoughts there on the digital >> transformation dream. I agree with everything that Rob just said, and I would just add just because, you know, it's the boarding piece that someone always has to say, and nobody in Tech everyone is he here? But you know, every corporation at one point or another in its Kurt in its life span faces a transformative period of time because of product change or a new competitor that's doing things differently, or has figured out a way to do it cheaper or whatever it is. And they usually make or break that transformation not because of technology, not because of whether they have smart people, not because of whether they implemented the newest solution, but because of culture and organizational motivation and the vast majority of like Everything, Rob said doesn't just apply to I. T. A lot of the best I T frameworks around Agile and Dev ops apply to how the rest of the organization can and should react to opportunity so that if I t can be and should be really time, then it only makes sense that the business should be able to be real time in responding to what is being created through I t systems. And right now I would argue that the vast majority of the 80% of transformations that don't see the benefit that they're looking for have nothing to do with whether they could have gotten the right technology or done the technology correctly. But it has to do with institutional culture and motivation. And if you can fix that, then the only piece all add on to that. That again I vociferously, really agree with Robin is that if you want to lower the barrier to entry and you want to get more people into this market, you won't get more people to buy more of your stuff and grow what they own. Then you have to be able to show them a path to taking, getting the most value out of what they already have. There is no doubt in my mind that that's the only way forward, and that's where some of the tools that we're talking about and what we're talking about today on Twitter or so important >> Mike final stops on the >> docks >> on your thoughts on the transmission paradox, >> so the paradox that Robb describe think is set, the contact is set incorrectly by calling it digital transformation should be digital revolution, where the evolution process doesn't end. Transformation makes people think that there's some end state, which means let's burn the votes. That's let's get rid of all over all on prime infrastructure moved to cloud and we're done. And really, that's only the beginning. Which is why we're talking about Cloud two point. Oh, do you have to take that approach that you want to have continuous evolution and improvements, which Segways into what Rob said about de box and automating all the things you don't automate your tasks and processes and you're done? You want to keep improving upon them. Figuring out how to improve the process is and then change the automation five that the is, Mark said. It's a cultural and mental shift versus trying to get to this Holy Grail and state of transforming transformation. >> Awesome. Well, why I got you guys here first off. Thanks for spending the time and unpacking these big issue. Well, two more of it. I'd >> love to just get >> your thoughts real quick on just your opinion of Capital One. The breach, survivability and impact of the industry. Since it's still in the news, who wants to jump for us? We'll start with Mike. Mike, start with you will go down the line. Mike, Robin Mara. >> I mean, the good news for Capital One is I don't think any personal information was breached that hasn't already been exposed by the various other massive reaches. Like I do my so security number as a throw away at this point which never should have been used for identity. But I want All >> right, So there were Do you think >> it's recoverable is not gonna be as critical, say, Equifax, which was brutal. >> It doesn't sound like there was negligence where Equifax seemed like it was Maura negligent driven than just ah ah, bad process or bad hygiene around a user or roll account and access to a certain subset of data. >> I mean, this was someone who stumbled upon open history bucket and said, >> Well, well, look at this >> bragging about it on Twitter and the user groups. I mean, this >> was like from from what the press said, I think there's other companies that may or may not be affected by this as well, so that it's just capital one, which will probably defuse the attention on them and lessen the severity or backlash. >> Rob your thoughts on Capital One. >> Yeah, I wish it would move the needle. I think that we have become so used to the security of breach of the week or the hardware. Very. You know, it is we We need to really think through what it's really gonna take toe treat security as a primary thing, which means actually treating operations and infrastructure and the human processes piece of this, um, and slowed down a little bit. Um, and I always saw >> 11 lawmaker, one congressman's woman said, More regulation. >> Yeah, they don't want this. I don't think regulation is the right is the right thing. I don't know exactly what it is because I think >> regularly, we don't understand. That's Washington, DC, >> But but we're building a very, very, very fragile I T infrastructure. And so this is not a security problem. It's a It's a fact that we've built this Jenga tower of I t infrastructure, and we don't actually understand how it's built, Um, and that I don't see that slowing down. Unfortunately, >> unlike Las Vegas is, Mike pointed out, it's was built with purpose. They built the roads around the town. Mark, you live there now What's your thoughts on this capital? One piece ends and >> I have been said I would say that what I'm hoping sort of like when you have, ah, a lack of employees for a specific job type. Like right now in United States, it's incredibly difficult to find a truck driver if you're a trucking company, So what does that mean? But that means it's gonna accelerate automation and truck driving because that's the best alternative, right? If you can't solve it the old way, then you find a new way to solve it. And we have an enormous number of opportunity. He's from a process standpoint, but also, from a technology standpoint, did not build on this. Pardon my French crap that we have already >> they were digital. Then, when I ruled by the FCC, >> had build it the right way from the start. >> Well, you know what was soon? How about self driving security? We needed guys. Thanks for spending the time this cube talk. Keep conversation. Appreciate time. Mike, Rob mark. Thanks for kicking it off. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> You're watching Cute conversation with promote guests. Panel discussion Breaking down. How businesses should look at technology as part of their business. Cloud 2.0, security hacks and digital transformation Digital evolution. I'm John free. Thanks for watching.

>> Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Red Hat President Products and Technologies. Paul Cormier. Boring. >> Welcome back to Boston. Welcome back. And welcome back after a great night last night of our opening with with Jim and talking to certainly saw ten Jenny and and especially our customers. It was so great last night to hear our customers in how they set their their goals and how they met their goals. All possible because certainly with a little help from red hat, but all possible because of because of open source. And, you know, sometimes we have to all due that has set goals. And I'm going to talk this morning about what we as a company and with community, have set for our goals along the way. And sometimes you have to do that. You know, audacious goals. It can really change the perception of what's even possible. And, you know, if I look back, I can't think of anything, at least in my lifetime, that's more important. Or such a big golden John F. Kennedy setting the gold to the American people to go to the moon. I believe it or not, I was really, really only three years old when he said that, honestly. But as I grew up, I remember the passion around the whole country and the energy to make that goal a reality. So let's sort of talk about in compare and contrast, a little bit of where we are technically at that time, you know, tto win and to beat and winning the space race and even get into the space race. There was some really big technical challenges along the way. I mean, believe it or not. Not that long ago. But even But back then, math Malik mathematical calculations were being shifted from from brilliant people who we trusted, and you could look in the eye to A to a computer that was programmed with the results that were mostly printed out. This this is a time where the potential of computers was just really coming on the scene and, at the time, the space race at the time of space race it. It revolved around an IBM seventy ninety, which was one of the first transistor based computers. It could perform mathematical calculations faster than even the most brilliant mathematicians. But just like today, this also came with many, many challenges And while we had the goal of in the beginning of the technique and the technology to accomplish it, we needed people so dedicated to that goal that they would risk everything. And while it may seem commonplace to us today to trust, put our trust in machines, that wasn't the case. Back in nineteen sixty nine, the seven individuals that made up the Mercury Space crew were putting their their lives in the hands of those first computers. But on Sunday, July twentieth, nineteen sixty nine, these things all came together. The goal, the technology in the team and a human being walked on the moon. You know, if this was possible fifty years ago, just think about what Khun B. Accomplished today, where technology is part of our everyday lives. And with technology advances at an ever increasing rate, it's hard to comprehend the potential that sitting right at our fingertips every single day, everything you know about computing is continuing to change. Today, let's look a bit it back. A computing In nineteen sixty nine, the IBM seventy ninety could process one hundred thousand floating point operations per second, today's Xbox one that sitting in most of your living rooms probably can process six trillion flops. That's sixty million times more powerful than the original seventy ninety that helped put a human being on the moon. And at the same time that computing was, that was drastically changed. That this computing has drastically changed. So have the boundaries of where that computing sits and where it's been where it lives. At the time of the Apollo launch, the computing power was often a single machine. Then it moved to a single data center, and over time that grew to multiple data centers. Then with cloud, it extended all the way out to data centers that you didn't even own or have control of. But but computing now reaches far beyond any data center. This is also referred to as the edge. You hear a lot about that. The Apollo's, the Apollo's version of the Edge was the guidance system, a two megahertz computer that weighed seventy pounds embedded in the capsule. Today, today the edge is right here on my wrist. This apple watch weighs just a couple of ounces, and it's ten ten thousand times more powerful than that seventy ninety back in nineteen sixty nine But even more impactful than computing advances, combined with the pervasive availability of it, are the changes and who in what controls those that similar to social changes that have happened along the way. Shifting from mathematicians to computers, we're now facing the same type of changes with regards to operational control of our computing power. In its first forms. Operational control was your team, your team within your control? In some cases, a single person managed everything. But as complexity grows, our team's expanded, just like in the just like in the computing boundaries, system integrators and public cloud providers have become an extension of our team. But at the end of the day, it's still people that are still making all the decisions going forward with the progress of things like a I and software defined everything. It's quite likely that machines will be managing machines, and in many cases that's already happening today. But while the technology at our finger tips today is so impressive, the pace of changing complexity of the problems we aspire to solve our equally hard to comprehend and they are all intertwined with one another learning from each other, growing together faster and faster. We are tackling problems today on a global scale with unsinkable complexity beyond anyone beyond what any one single company or even one single country Khun solve alone. This is why open source is so important. This is why open source is so needed today in software. This is why open sources so needed today, even in the world, to solve other types of complex problems. And this is why open source has become the dominant development model which is driving the technology direction. Today is to bring two brother to bring together the best innovation from every corner of the planet. Toe fundamentally change how we solve problems. This approach and access the innovation is what has enabled open source To tackle The challenge is big challenges, like creating the hybrid cloud like building a truly open hybrid cloud. But even today it's really difficult to bridge the gap of the innovation. It's available in all in all of our fingertips by open source development, while providing the production level capabilities that are needed to really dip, ploy this in the enterprise and solve RIA world business problems. Red Hat has been committed to open source from the very, very beginning and bringing it to solve enterprise class problems for the last seventeen plus years. But when we built that model to bring open source to the enterprise, we absolutely knew we couldn't do it halfway tow harness the innovation. We had to fully embrace the model. We made a decision very early on. Give everything back and we live by that every single day. We didn't do crazy crazy things like you hear so many do out there. All this is open corps or everything below. The line is open and everything above the line is closed. We didn't do that, and we gave everything back Everything we learned in the process of becoming an enterprise class technology company. We gave it all of that back to the community to make better and better software. This is how it works. And we've seen the results of that. We've all seen the results of that and it could only have been possible within open source development model we've been building on the foundation of open source is most successful Project Lennox in the architecture of the future hybrid and bringing them to the Enterprise. This is what made Red Hat, the company that we are today and red hats journey. But we also had the set goals, and and many of them seemed insert insurmountable at the time, the first of which was making Lennox the Enterprise standard. And while this is so accepted today, let's take a look at what it took to get there. Our first launch into the Enterprise was rail two dot one. Yes, I know we two dot one, but we knew we couldn't release a one dato product. We knew that and and we didn't. But >> we didn't want to >> allow any reason why anyone of any customer anyone shouldn't should look past rail to solve their problems as an option. Back then, we had to fight every single flavor of Unix in every single account. But we were lucky to have a few initial partners and Big Eyes v partners that supported Rehl out of the gate. But while we had the determination, we knew we also had gaps in order to deliver on our on our priorities. In the early days of rail, I remember going to ask one of our engineers for a past rehl build because we were having a customer issue on it on an older release. And then I watched in horror as he rifled through his desk through a mess of CDs and magically came up and said, I found it here It is told me not to worry that the build this was he thinks this was the bill. This was the right one, and at that point I knew that despite the promise of Lennox, we had a lot of work ahead of us. The not only convinced the world that Lennox was secure, stable, an enterprise ready, but also to make that a reality. But we did. And today this is our reality. It's all of our reality. From the Enterprise Data Center standard to the fastest computers on the planet, Red Hat Enterprise, Lennox has continually risen to the challenge and has become the core foundation that many mission critical customers run and bet their business on. And an even bigger today Lennox is the foundation of which practically every single technology initiative is built upon. Lennox is not only standard toe build on today, it's the standard for innovation that builds around it. That's the innovation that's driving the future as well. We started our story with rail two dot one, and here we are today, seventeen years later, announcing rally as we did as we did last night. It's specifically designed for applications to run across the open hybrid. Clyde Cloud. Railed has become the best operating simp system for on premise all the way out to the cloud, providing that common operating model and workload foundation on which to build hybrid applications. Let's take it. Let's take a look at how far we've come and see this in action. >> Please welcome Red Hat Global director of developer experience, burst Sutter with Josh Boyer, Timothy Kramer, Lars Carl, it's Key and Brent Midwood. All right, we have some amazing things to show you. In just a few short moments, we actually have a lot of things to show you. And actually, Tim and Brandt will be with us momentarily. They're working out a few things in the back because we have a lot of this is gonna be a live demonstration, some incredible capabilities. Now you're going to see clear innovation inside the operating system where we worked incredibly hard to make it vast cities. You're free to manage many, many machines. I want you thinking about that as we go to this process. Now, also, keep in mind that this is the basis our core platform for everything we do here. Red hat. So it is an honor for me to be able to show it to you live on stage today. And so I recognize the many of you in the audience right now. Her hand's on systems administrators, systems, architect, citizens, engineers. And we know that you're under ever growing pressure to deliver needed infrastructure. Resource is ever faster, and that is a key element to what you're thinking about every day. Well, this has been a core theme, and our design decisions find red Odd Enterprise Lennox eight and intelligent operating system, which is making it fundamentally easier for you manage machines that scale. So hold what you're about to see next. Feels like a new superpower and and that redhead azure force multiplier. So first, let me introduce you to a large. He's totally my limits guru. >> I wouldn't call myself a girl, but I I guess you could say that I want to bring Lennox and light meant to more people. >> Okay, Well, let's let's dive in. And we're not about the clinic's eight. >> Sure. Let me go. And Morgan, >> wait a >> second. There's windows. >> Yeah, way Build the weft Consul into Really? That means that for the first time, you can log in from any device including your phone or this standard windows laptop. So you just go ahead and and to my Saturday lance credentials here. >> Okay, so now >> you're putting >> your limits password and over the web. >> Yeah, that might sound a bit scary at first, but of course, we're using the latest security tech by T. L s on dh csp on. Because that's the standard Lennox off site. You can use everything that you used to like a stage keys, OTP, tokens and stuff like this. >> Okay, so now I see the council right here. I love the dashboard overview of the system, but what else can you tell us about this council? >> Right? Like right here. You see the load of the system, some some of its properties. But you can also dive into logs everything that you're used to from the command line, right? Or lookit, services. This's all the services I've running, can start and stuff them and enable >> OK, I love that feature right there. So what about if I have to add a whole new application to this environment? >> Good that you're bringing that up. We build a new future into hell called application streams. Which the way for you to install different versions of your half stack that are supported I'LL show you with Youngmin a command line. But since Windows doesn't have a proper terminal, I'll just do it in the terminal that we built into the Web console Since the browser, I can even make this a bit bigger. Go to, for example, to see the application streams that we have for Poskus. Ijust do module list and I see you know we have ten and nine dot six Both supported tennis a default on defy enable ninety six Now the next time that I installed prescribes it will pull all their lady towards from them at six. >> Ok, so this is very cool. I see two verses of post Chris right here What tennis to default. That is fantastic and the application streams making that happen. But I'm really kind of curious, right? I loved using know js and Java. So what about multiple versions of those? >> Yeah, that's exactly the idea way. Want to keep up with the fast moving ecosystems off programming language? Isn't it a business? >> Okay, now, But I have another key question. I know some people were thinking it right now. What about Python? >> Yeah. In fact, in a minimum and still like this, python gives you command. Not fact. Just have to type it correctly. You can't just install which everyone you want two or three or whichever your application needs. >> Okay, Well, that is I've been burned on that one before. Okay, so no actual. Have a confession for all you guys. Right here. You guys keep this amongst yourselves. Don't let Paul No, I'm actually not a linnet systems administrator. I'm an application developer, an application architect, And I recently had to go figure out how to extend the file system. This is for real. And I'm going to the rat knowledge base and looking up things like, you know, PV create VD, extend resized to f s. And I have to admit, that's hard, >> right? I've opened the storage space for you right here, where you see an overview of your storage. And the council has made for people like you as well not only for people that I knew that when you two lunatics, right? It's if you're running, you're running some of the commands only, you know, some of the time you don't remember them. So, for example, I haven't felt twosome here. That's a little bit too small. Let me just throw it. It's like, you know, dragging this lighter. It calls all the command in the background for you. >> Oh, that is incredible. Is that simple? Just drag and drop. That is fantastic. Well, so I actually, you know, we'll have another question for you. It looks like now this linen systems administration is no longer a dark heart involving arcane commands typed into a black terminal. Like using when those funky ergonomic keyboards you know I'm talking about right? Do >> you know a lot of people, including me and people in the audience like that dark out right? And this is not taking any of that away. It's on additional tool to bring limits to more people. >> Okay, well, that is absolute fantastic. Thank you so much for that Large. And I really love him installing everything is so much easier, including a post gra seeker and, of course, the python that we saw right there. So now I want to change gears for a second because I actually have another situation that I'm always dealing with. And that is every time I want to build a new Lenox system, not only I don't want to have to install those commands again and again, it feels like I'm doing it over and over. So, Josh, how would I create a golden image? One VM image that can use and we have everything pre baked in? >> Yeah, absolutely. But >> we get that question all the time. So really includes image builder technology. Image builder technology is actually all of our hybrid cloud operating system image tools that we use to build our own images and rolled up in a nice, easy to integrate new system. So if I come here in the web console and I go to our image builder tab, it brings us to blueprints, right? Blueprints or what we used to actually control it goes into our golden image. Uh, and I heard you and Lars talking about post present python. So I went and started typing here. So it brings us to this page, but you could go to the selected components, and you can see here I've created a blueprint that has all the python and post press packages in it. Ah, and the interesting thing about this is it build on our existing kickstart technology. But you can use it to deploy that whatever cloud you want. And it's saved so that you don't actually have to know all the various incantations from Amazon toe azure to Google, whatever it's all baked in on. When you do this, you can actually see the dependencies that get brought in as well. Okay. Should we create one life? Yes, please. All right, cool. So if we go back to the blueprints page and we click create blueprint Let's, uh let's make a developer brute blueprint here. So we click great, and you can see here on the left hand side. I've got all of my content served up by Red Hat satellite. We have a lot of great stuff, and really, But we can go ahead and search. So we'LL look for post grows and you know, it's a developer image at the client for some local testing. Um, well, come in here and at the python bits. Probably the development package. We need a compiler if we're going to actually build anything. So look for GCC here and hey, what's your favorite editor? >> A Max, Of course, >> Max. All right. Hey, Lars, about you. I'm more of a person. You Maxim v I All right, Well, if you want to prevent a holy war in your system, you can actually use satellite to filter that out. But we're going to go ahead and Adam Ball, sweetie, I'm a fight on stage. So wait, just point and click. Let the graphical one. And then when we're all done, we just commit our changes, and our image is ready to build. >> Okay, So this VM image we just created right now from that blueprint this is now I can actually go out there and easily deploys of deploy this across multiple cloud providers. And as well as this on stage are where we have right now. >> Yeah, absolutely. We can to play on Amazon as your google any any infrastructure you're looking for so you can really hit your Clyburn hybrid cloud operating system images. >> Okay. All right, listen, we >> just go on, click, create image. Uh, we can select our different types here. I'm gonna go ahead and create a local VM because it's available image, and maybe they want to pass it around or whatever, and I just need a few moments for it to build. >> Okay? So while that's taking a few moments, I know there's another key question in the minds of the audience right now, and you're probably thinking I love what I see. What Right eye right hand Priceline say. But >> what does it >> take to upgrade from seven to eight? So large can you show us and walk us through an upgrade? >> Sure, this's my little Thomas Block that I set up. It's powered by what Chris and secrets over, but it's still running on seven six. So let's upgrade that jump over to my house fee on satellite on. You see all my relate machines here, including the one I showed you what Consul on before. And there is that one with my sun block and there's a couple others. Let me select those as well. This one on that one. Just go up here. Schedule remote job. And she was really great. And hit Submit. I made it so that it makes the booms national before. So if anything was wrong Kans throwback! >> Okay, okay, so now it's progressing. Here, >> it's progressing. Looks like it's running. Doing >> live upgrade on stage. Uh, >> seems like one is failing. What's going on here? Okay, we checked the tree of great Chuck. Oh, yeah, that's the one I was playing around with Butter fest backstage. What? Detective that and you know, it doesn't run the Afghan cause we don't support operating that. >> Okay, so what I'm hearing now? So the good news is, we were protected from possible failed upgrade there, So it sounds like these upgrades are perfectly safe. Aiken, basically, you know, schedule this during a maintenance window and still get some sleep. >> Totally. That's the idea. >> Okay, fantastic. All right. So it looks like upgrades are easy and perfectly safe. And I really love what you showed us there. It's good point. Click operation right from satellite. Ok, so Well, you know, we were checking out upgrades. I want to know Josh. How those v ems coming along. >> They went really well. So you were away for so long. I got a little bored and I took some liberties. >> What do you mean? >> Well, the image Bill And, you know, I decided I'm going to go ahead and deploy here to this Intel machine on stage Esso. I have that up and running in the web. Counsel. I built another one on the arm box, which is actually pretty fast, and that's up and running on this. Our machine on that went so well that I decided to spend up some an Amazon. So I've got a few instances here running an Amazon with the web console accessible there as well. On even more of our pre bill image is up and running an azure with the web console there. So the really cool thing about this bird is that all of these images were built with image builder in a single location, controlling all the content that you want in your golden images deployed across the hybrid cloud. >> Wow, that is fantastic. And you might think that so we actually have more to show you. So thank you so much for that large. And Josh, that is fantastic. Looks like provisioning bread. Enterprise Clinic Systems ate a redhead. Enterprise Enterprise. Rhetta Enterprise Lennox. Eight Systems is Asian ever before, but >> we have >> more to talk to you about. And there's one thing that many of the operations professionals in this room right now no, that provisioning of'em is easy, but it's really day two day three, it's down the road that those viens required day to day maintenance. As a matter of fact, several you folks right now in this audience to have to manage hundreds, if not thousands, of virtual machines I recently spoke to. Gentleman has to manage thirteen hundred servers. So how do you manage those machines? A great scale. So great that they have now joined us is that it looks like they worked things out. So now I'm curious, Tim. How will we manage hundreds, if not thousands, of computers? >> Welbourne, one human managing hundreds or even thousands of'em says, No problem, because we have Ansel automation. And by leveraging Ansel's integration into satellite, not only can we spin up those V em's really quickly, like Josh was just doing, but we can also make ongoing maintenance of them really simple. Come on up here. I'm going to show you here a satellite inventory and his red hat is publishing patches. Weaken with that danceable integration easily apply those patches across our entire fleet of machines. Okay, >> that is fantastic. So he's all the machines can get updated in one fell swoop. >> He sure can. And there's one thing that I want to bring your attention to today because it's brand new. And that's cloud that red hat dot com And here, a cloud that redhead dot com You can view and manage your entire inventory no matter where it sits. Of Redhead Enterprise Lennox like on Prem on stage. Private Cloud or Public Cloud. It's true Hybrid cloud management. >> OK, but one thing. One thing. I know that in the minds of the audience right now. And if you have to manage a large number servers this it comes up again and again. What happens when you have those critical vulnerabilities that next zero day CV could be tomorrow? >> Exactly. I've actually been waiting for a while patiently for you >> to get to the really good stuff. So >> there's one more thing that I wanted to let folks know about. Red Hat Enterprise. The >> next eight and some features that we have there. Oh, >> yeah? What is that? >> So, actually, one of the key design principles of relate is working with our customers over the last twenty years to integrate all the knowledge that we've gained and turn that into insights that we can use to keep our red hat Enterprise Lennox servers running securely, inefficiently. And so what we actually have here is a few things that we could take a look at show folks what that is. >> OK, so we basically have this new feature. We're going to show people right now. And so one thing I want to make sure it's absolutely included within the redhead enterprise in that state. >> Yes. Oh, that's Ah, that's an announcement that we're making this week is that this is a brand new feature that's integrated with Red Hat Enterprise clinics, and it's available to everybody that has a red hat enterprise like subscription. So >> I believe everyone in this room right now has a rail subscriptions, so it's available to all of them. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So let's take a quick look and try this out. So we actually have. Here is a list of about six hundred rules. They're configuration security and performance rules. And this is this list is growing every single day, so customers can actually opt in to the rules that are most that are most applicable to their enterprises. So what we're actually doing here is combining the experience and knowledge that we have with the data that our customers opt into sending us. So customers have opted in and are sending us more data every single night. Then they actually have in total over the last twenty years via any other mechanism. >> Now there's I see now there's some critical findings. That's what I was talking about. But it comes to CVS and things that nature. >> Yeah, I'm betting that those air probably some of the rail seven boxes that we haven't actually upgraded quite yet. So we get back to that. What? I'd really like to show everybody here because everybody has access to this is how easy it is to opt in and enable this feature for real. Okay, let's do that real quick, so I gotta hop back over to satellite here. This is the satellite that we saw before, and I'll grab one of the hosts and we can use the new Web console feature that's part of Railly, and via single sign on I could jump right from satellite over to the Web console. So it's really, really easy. And I'LL grab a terminal here and registering with insights is really, really easy. Is one command troops, and what's happening right now is the box is going to gather some data. It's going to send it up to the cloud, and within just a minute or two, we're gonna have some results that we can look at back on the Web interface. >> I love it so it's just a single command and you're ready to register this box right now. That is super easy. Well, that's fantastic, >> Brent. We started this whole series of demonstrations by telling the audience that Red Hat Enterprise Lennox eight was the easiest, most economical and smartest operating system on the planet, period. And well, I think it's cute how you can go ahead and captain on a single machine. I'm going to show you one more thing. This is Answerable Tower. You can use as a bell tower to managing govern your answerable playbook, usage across your entire organization and with this. What I could do is on every single VM that was spun up here today. Opt in and register insights with a single click of a button. >> Okay, I want to see that right now. I know everyone's waiting for it as well, But hey, you're VM is ready. Josh. Lars? >> Yeah. My clock is running a little late now. Yeah, insights is a really cool feature >> of rail. And I've got it in all my images already. All >> right, I'm doing it all right. And so as this playbook runs across the inventory, I can see the machines registering on cloud that redhead dot com ready to be managed. >> OK, so all those onstage PM's as well as the hybrid cloud VM should be popping in IRC Post Chris equals Well, fantastic. >> That's awesome. Thanks to him. Nothing better than a Red Hat Summit speaker in the first live demo going off script deal. Uh, let's go back and take a look at some of those critical issues affecting a few of our systems here. So you can see this is a particular deanna's mask issue. It's going to affect a couple of machines. We saw that in the overview, and I can actually go and get some more details about what this particular issue is. So if you take a look at the right side of the screen there, there's actually a critical likelihood an impact that's associated with this particular issue. And what that really translates to is that there's a high level of risk to our organization from this particular issue. But also there's a low risk of change. And so what that means is that it's really, really safe for us to go ahead and use answerable to mediate this so I can grab the machines will select those two and we're mediate with answerable. I can create a new playbook. It's our maintenance window, but we'LL do something along the lines of like stuff Tim broke and that'LL be our cause. We name it whatever we want. So we'Ll create that playbook and take a look at it, and it's actually going to give us some details about the machines. You know what, what type of reboots Efendi you're going to be needed and what we need here. So we'LL go ahead and execute the playbook and what you're going to see is the outputs goingto happen in real time. So this is happening from the cloud were affecting machines. No matter where they are, they could be on Prem. They could be in a hybrid cloud, a public cloud or in a private cloud. And these things are gonna be remediated very, very easily with answerable. So it's really, really awesome. Everybody here with a red hat. Enterprise licks Lennox subscription has access to this now, so I >> kind of want >> everybody to go try this like, we really need to get this thing going and try it out right now. But >> don't know, sent about the room just yet. You get stay here >> for okay, Mr. Excitability, I think after this keynote, come back to the red hat booth and there's an optimization section. You can come talk to our insights engineers. And even though it's really easy to get going on your own, they can help you out. Answer any questions you might have. So >> this is really the start of a new era with an intelligent operating system and beauty with intelligence you just saw right now what insights that troubles you. Fantastic. So we're enabling systems administrators to manage more red in private clinics, a greater scale than ever before. I know there's a lot more we could show you, but we're totally out of time at this point, and we kind of, you know, when a little bit sideways here moments. But we need to get off the stage. But there's one thing I want you guys to think about it. All right? Do come check out the in the booth. Like Tim just said also in our debs, Get hands on red and a prize winning state as well. But really, I want you to think about this one human and a multitude of servers. And if you remember that one thing asked you upfront. Do you feel like you get a new superpower and redhead? Is your force multiplier? All right, well, thank you so much. Josh and Lars, Tim and Brent. Thank you. And let's get Paul back on stage. >> I went brilliant. No, it's just as always, >> amazing. I mean, as you can tell from last night were really, really proud of relate in that coming out here at the summit. And what a great way to showcase it. Thanks so much to you. Birth. Thanks, Brent. Tim, Lars and Josh. Just thanks again. So you've just seen this team demonstrate how impactful rail Khun b on your data center. So hopefully hopefully many of you. If not all of you have experienced that as well. But it was super computers. We hear about that all the time, as I just told you a few minutes ago, Lennox isn't just the foundation for enterprise and cloud computing. It's also the foundation for the fastest super computers in the world. In our next guest is here to tell us a lot more about that. >> Please welcome Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. HPC solution Architect Robin Goldstone. >> Thank you so much, Robin. >> So welcome. Welcome to the summit. Welcome to Boston. And thank thank you so much for coming for joining us. Can you tell us a bit about the goals of Lawrence Livermore National Lab and how high high performance computing really works at this level? >> Sure. So Lawrence Livermore National >> Lab was established during the Cold War to address urgent national security needs by advancing the state of nuclear weapons, science and technology and high performance computing has always been one of our core capabilities. In fact, our very first supercomputer, ah Univac one was ordered by Edward Teller before our lab even opened back in nineteen fifty two. Our mission has evolved since then to cover a broad range of national security challenges. But first and foremost, our job is to ensure the safety, security and reliability of the nation's nuclear weapons stockpile. Oh, since the US no longer performs underground nuclear testing, our ability to certify the stockpile depends heavily on science based science space methods. We rely on H P C to simulate the behavior of complex weapons systems to ensure that they can function as expected, well beyond their intended life spans. That's actually great. >> So are you really are still running on that on that Univac? >> No, Actually, we we've moved on since then. So Sierra is Lawrence Livermore. Its latest and greatest supercomputer is currently the Seconds spastic supercomputer in the world and for the geeks in the audience, I think there's a few of them out there. We put up some of the specs of Syrah on the screen behind me, a couple of things worth highlighting our Sierra's peak performance and its power utilisation. So one hundred twenty five Pata flops of performance is equivalent to about twenty thousand of those Xbox one excess that you mentioned earlier and eleven point six megawatts of power required Operate Sierra is enough to power around eleven thousand homes. Syria is a very large and complex system, but underneath it all, it starts out as a collection of servers running Lin IX and more specifically, rail. >> So did Lawrence. Did Lawrence Livermore National Lab National Lab used Yisrael before >> Sierra? Oh, yeah, most definitely. So we've been running rail for a very long time on what I'll call our mid range HPC systems. So these clusters, built from commodity components, are sort of the bread and butter of our computer center. And running rail on these systems provides us with a continuity of operations and a common user environment across multiple generations of hardware. Also between Lawrence Livermore in our sister labs, Los Alamos and Sandia. Alongside these commodity clusters, though, we've always had one sort of world class supercomputer like Sierra. Historically, these systems have been built for a sort of exotic proprietary hardware running entirely closed source operating systems. Anytime something broke, which was often the Vander would be on the hook to fix it. And you know, >> that sounds >> like a good model, except that what we found overtime is most the issues that we have on these systems were either due to the extreme scale or the complexity of our workloads. Vendors seldom had a system anywhere near the size of ours, and we couldn't give them our classified codes. So their ability to reproduce our problem was was pretty limited. In some cases, they've even sent an engineer on site to try to reproduce our problems. But even then, sometimes we wouldn't get a fix for months or else they would just tell us they weren't going to fix the problem because we were the only ones having it. >> So for many of us, for many of us, the challenges is one of driving reasons for open source, you know, for even open source existing. How has how did Sierra change? Things are on open source for >> you. Sure. So when we developed our technical requirements for Sierra, we had an explicit requirement that we want to run an open source operating system and a strong preference for rail. At the time, IBM was working with red hat toe add support Terrell for their new little Indian power architecture. So it was really just natural for them to bid a red. A rail bay system for Sierra running Raylan Cyril allows us to leverage the model that's worked so well for us for all this time on our commodity clusters any packages that we build for X eighty six, we can now build those packages for power as well as our market texture using our internal build infrastructure. And while we have a formal support relationship with IBM, we can also tap our in house colonel developers to help debug complex problems are sys. Admin is Khun now work on any of our systems, including Sierra, without having toe pull out their cheat sheet of obscure proprietary commands. Our users get a consistent software environment across all our systems. And if the security vulnerability comes out, we don't have to chase around getting fixes from Multan slo es fenders. >> You know, you've been able, you've been able to extend your foundation from all the way from X eighty six all all the way to the extract excess Excuse scale supercomputing. We talk about giving customers all we talked about it all the time. A standard operational foundation to build upon. This isn't This isn't exactly what we've envisioned. So So what's next for you >> guys? Right. So what's next? So Sierra's just now going into production. But even so, we're already working on the contract for our next supercomputer called El Capitan. That's scheduled to be delivered the Lawrence Livermore in the twenty twenty two twenty timeframe. El Capitan is expected to be about ten times the performance of Sierra. I can't share any more details about that system right now, but we are hoping that we're going to be able to continue to build on a solid foundation. That relish provided us for well over a decade. >> Well, thank you so much for your support of realm over the years, Robin. And And thank you so much for coming and tell us about it today. And we can't wait to hear more about El Capitan. Thank you. Thank you very much. So now you know why we're so proud of realm. And while you saw confetti cannons and T shirt cannons last night, um, so you know, as as burned the team talked about the demo rail is the force multiplier for servers. We've made Lennox one of the most powerful platforms in the history of platforms. But just as Lennox has become a viable platform with access for everyone, and rail has become viable, more viable every day in the enterprise open source projects began to flourish around the operating system. And we needed to bring those projects to our enterprise customers in the form of products with the same trust models as we did with Ralph seeing the incredible progress of software development occurring around Lennox. Let's let's lead us to the next goal that we said tow, tow ourselves. That goal was to make hybrid cloud the default enterprise for the architecture. How many? How many of you out here in the audience or are Cesar are? HC sees how many out there a lot. A lot. You are the people that our building the next generation of computing the hybrid cloud, you know, again with like just like our goals around Lennox. This goals might seem a little daunting in the beginning, but as a community we've proved it time and time again. We are unstoppable. Let's talk a bit about what got us to the point we're at right right now and in the work that, as always, we still have in front of us. We've been on a decade long mission on this. Believe it or not, this mission was to build the capabilities needed around the Lenox operating system to really build and make the hybrid cloud. When we saw well, first taking hold in the enterprise, we knew that was just taking the first step. Because for a platform to really succeed, you need applications running on it. And to get those applications on your platform, you have to enable developers with the tools and run times for them to build, to build upon. Over the years, we've closed a few, if not a lot of those gaps, starting with the acquisition of J. Boss many years ago, all the way to the new Cuban Eddie's native code ready workspaces we launched just a few months back. We realized very early on that building a developer friendly platform was critical to the success of Lennox and open source in the enterprise. Shortly after this, the public cloud stormed onto the scene while our first focus as a company was done on premise in customer data centers, the public cloud was really beginning to take hold. Rehl very quickly became the standard across public clouds, just as it was in the enterprise, giving customers that common operating platform to build their applications upon ensuring that those applications could move between locations without ever having to change their code or operating model. With this new model of the data center spread across so many multiple environments, management had to be completely re sought and re architected. And given the fact that environments spanned multiple locations, management, real solid management became even more important. Customers deploying in hybrid architectures had to understand where their applications were running in how they were running, regardless of which infrastructure provider they they were running on. We invested over the years with management right alongside the platform, from satellite in the early days to cloud forms to cloud forms, insights and now answerable. We focused on having management to support the platform wherever it lives. Next came data, which is very tightly linked toe applications. Enterprise class applications tend to create tons of data and to have a common operating platform foyer applications. You need a storage solutions. That's Justus, flexible as that platform able to run on premise. Just a CZ. Well, as in the cloud, even across multiple clouds. This let us tow acquisitions like bluster, SEF perma bitch in Nubia, complimenting our Pratt platform with red hat storage for us, even though this sounds very condensed, this was a decade's worth of investment, all in preparation for building the hybrid cloud. Expanding the portfolio to cover the areas that a customer would depend on to deploy riel hybrid cloud architectures, finding any finding an amplifying the right open source project and technologies, or filling the gaps with some of these acquisitions. When that necessarily wasn't available by twenty fourteen, our foundation had expanded, but one big challenge remained workload portability. Virtual machine formats were fragmented across the various deployments and higher level framework such as Java e still very much depended on a significant amount of operating system configuration and then containers happened containers, despite having a very long being in existence for a very long time. As a technology exploded on the scene in twenty fourteen, Cooper Netease followed shortly after in twenty fifteen, allowing containers to span multiple locations and in one fell swoop containers became the killer technology to really enable the hybrid cloud. And here we are. Hybrid is really the on ly practical reality in way for customers and a red hat. We've been investing in all aspects of this over the last eight plus years to make our customers and partners successful in this model. We've worked with you both our customers and our partners building critical realm in open shift deployments. We've been constantly learning about what has caused problems and what has worked well in many cases. And while we've and while we've amassed a pretty big amount of expertise to solve most any challenge in in any area that stack, it takes more than just our own learning's to build the next generation platform. Today we're also introducing open shit for which is the culmination of those learnings. This is the next generation of the application platform. This is truly a platform that has been built with our customers and not simply just with our customers in mind. This is something that could only be possible in an open source development model and just like relish the force multiplier for servers. Open shift is the force multiplier for data centers across the hybrid cloud, allowing customers to build thousands of containers and operate them its scale. And we've also announced open shift, and we've also announced azure open shift. Last night. Satya on this stage talked about that in depth. This is all about extending our goals of a common operating platform enabling applications across the hybrid cloud, regardless of whether you run it yourself or just consume it as a service. And with this flagship release, we are also introducing operators, which is the central, which is the central feature here. We talked about this work last year with the operator framework, and today we're not going to just show you today. We're not going to just show you open shift for we're going to show you operators running at scale operators that will do updates and patches for you, letting you focus more of your time and running your infrastructure and running running your business. We want to make all this easier and intuitive. So let's have a quick look at how we're doing. Just that >> painting. I know all of you have heard we're talking to pretend to new >> customers about the travel out. So new plan. Just open it up as a service been launched by this summer. Look, I know this is a big quest for not very big team. I'm open to any and all ideas. >> Please welcome back to the stage. Red Hat Global director of developer Experience burst Sutter with Jessica Forrester and Daniel McPherson. All right, we're ready to do some more now. Now. Earlier we showed you read Enterprise Clinic St running on lots of different hardware like this hardware you see right now And we're also running across multiple cloud providers. But now we're going to move to another world of Lennox Containers. This is where you see open shift four on how you can manage large clusters of applications from eggs limits containers across the hybrid cloud. We're going to see this is where suffer operators fundamentally empower human operators and especially make ups and Deb work efficiently, more efficiently and effectively there together than ever before. Rights. We have to focus on the stage right now. They're represent ops in death, and we're gonna go see how they reeled in application together. Okay, so let me introduce you to Dan. Dan is totally representing all our ops folks in the audience here today, and he's telling my ops, comfort person Let's go to call him Mr Ops. So Dan, >> thanks for with open before, we had a much easier time setting up in maintaining our clusters. In large part, that's because open shit for has extended management of the clusters down to the infrastructure, the diversity kinds of parent. When you take >> a look at the open ship console, >> you can now see the machines that make up the cluster where machine represents the infrastructure. Underneath that Cooper, Eddie's node open shit for now handles provisioning Andy provisioning of those machines. From there, you could dig into it open ship node and see how it's configured and monitor how it's behaving. So >> I'm curious, >> though it does this work on bare metal infrastructure as well as virtualized infrastructure. >> Yeah, that's right. Burn So Pa Journal nodes, no eternal machines and open shit for can now manage it all. Something else we found extremely useful about open ship for is that it now has the ability to update itself. We can see this cluster hasn't update available and at the press of a button. Upgrades are responsible for updating. The entire platform includes the nodes, the control plane and even the operating system and real core arrests. All of this is possible because the infrastructure components and their configuration is now controlled by technology called operators. Thes software operators are responsible for aligning the cluster to a desired state. And all of this makes operational management of unopened ship cluster much simpler than ever before. All right, I >> love the fact that all that's been on one console Now you can see the full stack right all way down to the bare metal right there in that one console. Fantastic. So I wanted to scare us for a moment, though. And now let's talk to Deva, right? So Jessica here represents our all our developers in the room as my facts. He manages a large team of developers here Red hat. But more importantly, she represents our vice president development and has a large team that she has to worry about on a regular basis of Jessica. What can you show us? We'LL burn My team has hundreds of developers and were constantly under pressure to deliver value to our business. And frankly, we can't really wait for Dan and his ops team to provisioned the infrastructure and the services that we need to do our job. So we've chosen open shift as our platform to run our applications on. But until recently, we really struggled to find a reliable source of Cooper Netease Technologies that have the operational characteristics that Dan's going to actually let us install through the cluster. But now, with operator, How bio, we're really seeing the V ecosystem be unlocked. And the technology's there. Things that my team needs, its databases and message cues tracing and monitoring. And these operators are actually responsible for complex applications like Prometheus here. Okay, they're written in a variety of languages, danceable, but that is awesome. So I do see a number of options there already, and preaches is a great example. But >> how do you >> know that one? These operators really is mature enough and robust enough for Dan and the outside of the house. Wilbert, Here we have the operator maturity model, and this is going to tell me and my team whether this particular operator is going to do a basic install if it's going to upgrade that application over time through different versions or all the way out to full auto pilot, where it's automatically scaling and tuning the application based on the current environment. And it's very cool. So coming over toothy open shift Consul, now we can actually see Dan has made the sequel server operator available to me and my team. That's the database that we're using. A sequel server. That's a great example. So cynics over running here in the cluster? But this is a great example for a developer. What if I want to create a new secret server instance? Sure, we're so it's as easy as provisioning any other service from the developer catalog. We come in and I can type for sequel server on what this is actually creating is, ah, native resource called Sequel Server, and you can think of that like a promise that a sequel server will get created. The operator is going to see that resource, install the application and then manage it over its life cycle, KAL, and from this install it operators view, I can see the operators running in my project and which resource is its managing Okay, but I'm >> kind of missing >> something here. I see this custom resource here, the sequel server. But where the community's resource is like pods. Yeah, I think it's cool that we get this native resource now called Sequel Server. But if I need to, I can still come in and see the native communities. Resource is like your staple set in service here. Okay, that is fantastic. Now, we did say earlier on, though, like many of our customers in the audience right now, you have a large team of engineers. Lost a large team of developers you gotta handle. You gotta have more than one secret server, right? We do one for every team as we're developing, and we use a lot of other technologies running on open shift as well, including Tomcat and our Jenkins pipelines and our dough js app that is gonna actually talk to that sequel server database. Okay, so this point we can kind of provisions, Some of these? Yes. Oh, since all of this is self service for me and my team's, I'm actually gonna go and create one of all of those things I just said on all of our projects, right Now, if you just give me a minute, Okay? Well, right. So basically, you're going to knock down No Jazz Jenkins sequel server. All right, now, that's like hundreds of bits of application level infrastructure right now. Live. So, Dan, are you not terrified? Well, I >> guess I should have done a little bit better >> job of managing guests this quota and historically just can. I might have had some conflict here because creating all these new applications would admit my team now had a massive back like tickets to work on. But now, because of software operators, my human operators were able to run our infrastructure at scale. So since I'm long into the cluster here as the cluster admin, I get this view of pods across all projects. And so I get an idea of what's happening across the entire cluster. And so I could see now we have four hundred ninety four pods already running, and there's a few more still starting up. And if I scroll to the list, we can see the different workloads Jessica just mentioned of Tomcats. And no Gs is And Jenkins is and and Siegel servers down here too, you know, I see continues >> creating and you have, like, close to five hundred pods running >> there. So, yeah, filters list down by secret server, so we could just see. Okay, But >> aren't you not >> running going around a cluster capacity at some point? >> Actually, yeah, we we definitely have a limited capacity in this cluster. And so, luckily, though, we already set up auto scale er's And so because the additional workload was launching, we see now those outer scholars have kicked in and some new machines are being created that don't yet have noticed. I'm because they're still starting up. And so there's another good view of this as well, so you can see machine sets. We have one machine set per availability zone, and you could see the each one is now scaling from ten to twelve machines. And the way they all those killers working is for each availability zone, they will. If capacities needed, they will add additional machines to that availability zone and then later effect fast. He's no longer needed. It will automatically take those machines away. >> That is incredible. So right now we're auto scaling across multiple available zones based on load. Okay, so looks like capacity planning and automation is fully, you know, handle this point. But I >> do have >> another question for year logged in. Is the cluster admin right now into the console? Can you show us your view of >> operator suffer operators? Actually, there's a couple of unique views here for operators, for Cluster admits. The first of those is operator Hub. This is where a cluster admin gets the ability to curate the experience of what operators are available to users of the cluster. And so obviously we already have the secret server operator installed, which which we've been using. The other unique view is operator management. This gives a cluster I've been the ability to maintain the operators they've already installed. And so if we dig in and see the secret server operator, well, see, we haven't set up for manual approval. And what that means is if a new update comes in for a single server, then a cluster and we would have the ability to approve or disapprove with that update before installs into the cluster, we'LL actually and there isn't upgrade that's available. Uh, I should probably wait to install this, though we're in the middle of scaling out this cluster. And I really don't want to disturb Jessica's application. Workflow. >> Yeah, so, actually, Dan, it's fine. My app is already up. It's running. Let me show it to you over here. So this is our products application that's talking to that sequel server instance. And for debugging purposes, we can see which version of sequel server we're currently talking to. Its two point two right now. And then which pod? Since this is a cluster, there's more than one secret server pod we could be connected to. Okay, I could see right there the bounder screeners they know to point to. That's the version we have right now. But, you know, >> this is kind of >> point of software operators at this point. So, you know, everyone in this room, you know, wants to see you hit that upgrade button. Let's do it. Live here on stage. Right, then. All >> right. All right. I could see where this is going. So whenever you updated operator, it's just like any other resource on communities. And so the first thing that happens is the operator pot itself gets updated so we actually see a new version of the operator is currently being created now, and what's that gets created, the overseer will be terminated. And that point, the new, softer operator will notice. It's now responsible for managing lots of existing Siegel servers already in the environment. And so it's then going Teo update each of those sickle servers to match to the new version of the single server operator and so we could see it's running. And so if we switch now to the all projects view and we filter that list down by sequel server, then we should be able to see us. So lots of these sickle servers are now being created and the old ones are being terminated. So is the rolling update across the cluster? Exactly a So the secret server operator Deploy single server and an H A configuration. And it's on ly updates a single instance of secret server at a time, which means single server always left in nature configuration, and Jessica doesn't really have to worry about downtime with their applications. >> Yeah, that's awesome dance. So glad the team doesn't have to worry about >> that anymore and just got I think enough of these might have run by Now, if you try your app again might be updated. >> Let's see Jessica's application up here. All right. On laptop three. >> Here we go. >> Fantastic. And yet look, we're We're into two before we're onto three. Now we're on to victory. Excellent on. >> You know, I actually works so well. I don't even see a reason for us to leave this on manual approval. So I'm going to switch this automatic approval. And then in the future, if a new single server comes in, then we don't have to do anything, and it'll be all automatically updated on the cluster. >> That is absolutely fantastic. And so I was glad you guys got a chance to see that rolling update across the cluster. That is so cool. The Secret Service database being automated and fully updated. That is fantastic. Alright, so I can see how a software operator doesn't able. You don't manage hundreds if not thousands of applications. I know a lot of folks or interest in the back in infrastructure. Could you give us an example of the infrastructure >> behind this console? Yeah, absolutely. So we all know that open shift is designed that run in lots of different environments. But our teams think that as your redhead over, Schiff provides one of the best experiences by deeply integrating the open chief Resource is into the azure console, and it's even integrated into the azure command line toll and the easy open ship man. And, as was announced yesterday, it's now available for everyone to try out. And there's actually one more thing we wanted to show Everyone related to open shit, for this is all so new with a penchant for which is we now have multi cluster management. This gives you the ability to keep track of all your open shift environments, regardless of where they're running as well as you can create new clusters from here. And I'll dig into the azure cluster that we were just taking a look at. >> Okay, but is this user and face something have to install them one of my existing clusters? >> No, actually, this is the host of service that's provided by Red hat is part of cloud that redhead that calm and so all you have to do is log in with your red hair credentials to get access. >> That is incredible. So one console, one user experience to see across the entire hybrid cloud we saw earlier with Red update. Right and red embers. Thank Satan. Now we see it for multi cluster management. But home shift so you can fundamentally see. Now the suffer operators do finally change the game when it comes to making human operators vastly more productive and, more importantly, making Devon ops work more efficiently together than ever before. So we saw the rich ice vehicle system of those software operators. We can manage them across the Khyber Cloud with any, um, shift instance. And more importantly, I want to say Dan and Jessica for helping us with this demonstration. Okay, fantastic stuff, guys. Thank you so much. Let's get Paul back out here >> once again. Thanks >> so much to burn his team. Jessica and Dan. So you've just seen how open shift operators can help you manage hundreds, even thousands of applications. Install, upgrade, remove nodes, control everything about your application environment, virtual physical, all the way out to the cloud making, making things happen when the business demands it even at scale, because that's where it's going to get. Our next guest has lots of experience with demand at scale. and they're using open source container management to do it. Their work, their their their work building a successful cloud, First platform and there, the twenty nineteen Innovation Award winner. >> Please welcome twenty nineteen Innovation Award winner. Cole's senior vice president of technology, Rich Hodak. >> How you doing? Thanks. >> Thanks so much for coming out. We really appreciate it. So I guess you guys set some big goals, too. So can you baby tell us about the bold goal? Helped you personally help set for Cole's. And what inspired you to take that on? Yes. So it was twenty seventeen and life was pretty good. I had no gray hair and our business was, well, our tech was working well, and but we knew we'd have to do better into the future if we wanted to compete. Retails being disrupted. Our customers are asking for new experiences, So we set out on a goal to become an open hybrid cloud platform, and we chose Red had to partner with us on a lot of that. We set off on a three year journey. We're currently in Year two, and so far all KP eyes are on track, so it's been a great journey thus far. That's awesome. That's awesome. So So you Obviously, Obviously you think open source is the way to do cloud computing. So way absolutely agree with you on that point. So So what? What is it that's convinced you even more along? Yeah, So I think first and foremost wait, do we have a lot of traditional IAS fees? But we found that the open source partners actually are outpacing them with innovation. So I think that's where it starts for us. Um, secondly, we think there's maybe some financial upside to going more open source. We think we can maybe take some cost out unwind from these big fellas were in and thirdly, a CZ. We go to universities. We started hearing. Is we interviewed? Hey, what is Cole's doing with open source and way? Wanted to use that as a lever to help recruit talent. So I'm kind of excited, you know, we partner with Red Hat on open shift in in Rail and Gloucester and active M Q and answerable and lots of things. But we've also now launched our first open source projects. So it's really great to see this journey. We've been on. That's awesome, Rich. So you're in. You're in a high touch beta with with open shift for So what? What features and components or capabilities are you most excited about and looking forward to what? The launch and you know, and what? You know what? What are the something maybe some new goals that you might be able to accomplish with with the new features. And yeah, So I will tell you we're off to a great start with open shift. We've been on the platform for over a year now. We want an innovation award. We have this great team of engineers out here that have done some outstanding work. But certainly there's room to continue to mature that platform. It calls, and we're excited about open shift, for I think there's probably three things that were really looking forward to. One is we're looking forward to, ah, better upgrade process. And I think we saw, you know, some of that in the last demo. So upgrades have been kind of painful up until now. So we think that that that will help us. Um, number two, A lot of our open shift workloads today or the workloads. We run an open shifts are the stateless apse. Right? And we're really looking forward to moving more of our state full lapse into the platform. And then thirdly, I think that we've done a great job of automating a lot of the day. One stuff, you know, the provisioning of, of things. There's great opportunity o out there to do mohr automation for day two things. So to integrate mohr with our messaging systems in our database systems and so forth. So we, uh we're excited. Teo, get on board with the version for wear too. So, you know, I hope you, Khun, we can help you get to the next goals and we're going to continue to do that. Thank you. Thank you so much rich, you know, all the way from from rail toe open shift. It's really exciting for us, frankly, to see our products helping you solve World War were problems. What's you know what? Which is. Really? Why way do this and and getting into both of our goals. So thank you. Thank you very much. And thanks for your support. We really appreciate it. Thanks. It has all been amazing so far and we're not done. A critical part of being successful in the hybrid cloud is being successful in your data center with your own infrastructure. We've been helping our customers do that in these environments. For almost twenty years now, we've been running the most complex work loads in the world. But you know, while the public cloud has opened up tremendous possibilities, it also brings in another type of another layer of infrastructure complexity. So what's our next goal? Extend your extend your data center all the way to the edge while being as effective as you have been over the last twenty twenty years, when it's all at your own fingertips. First from a practical sense, Enterprises air going to have to have their own data centers in their own environment for a very long time. But there are advantages of being able to manage your own infrastructure that expand even beyond the public cloud all the way out to the edge. In fact, we talked about that very early on how technology advances in computer networking is storage are changing the physical boundaries of the data center every single day. The need, the need to process data at the source is becoming more and more critical. New use cases Air coming up every day. Self driving cars need to make the decisions on the fly. In the car factory processes are using a I need to adapt in real time. The factory floor has become the new edge of the data center, working with things like video analysis of a of A car's paint job as it comes off the line, where a massive amount of data is on ly needed for seconds in order to make critical decisions in real time. If we had to wait for the video to go up to the cloud and back, it would be too late. The damage would have already been done. The enterprise is being stretched to be able to process on site, whether it's in a car, a factory, a store or in eight or nine PM, usually involving massive amounts of data that just can't easily be moved. Just like these use cases couldn't be solved in private cloud alone because of things like blatant see on data movement, toe address, real time and requirements. They also can't be solved in public cloud alone. This is why open hybrid is really the model that's needed in the only model forward. So how do you address this class of workload that requires all of the above running at the edge? With the latest technology all its scale, let me give you a bit of a preview of what we're working on. We are taking our open hybrid cloud technologies to the edge, Integrated with integrated with Aro AM Hardware Partners. This is a preview of a solution that will contain red had open shift self storage in K V M virtual ization with Red Hat Enterprise Lennox at the core, all running on pre configured hardware. The first hardware out of the out of the gate will be with our long time. Oh, am partner Del Technologies. So let's bring back burn the team to see what's right around the corner. >> Please welcome back to the stage. Red Hat. Global director of developer Experience burst Sutter with Kareema Sharma. Okay, We just how was your Foreign operators have redefined the capabilities and usability of the open hybrid cloud, and now we're going to show you a few more things. Okay, so just be ready for that. But I know many of our customers in this audience right now, as well as the customers who aren't even here today. You're running tens of thousands of applications on open chef clusters. We know that disappearing right now, but we also know that >> you're not >> actually in the business of running terminators clusters. You're in the business of oil and gas from the business retail. You're in a business transportation, you're in some other business and you don't really want to manage those things at all. We also know though you have lo latest requirements like Polish is talking about. And you also dated gravity concerns where you >> need to keep >> that on your premises. So what you're about to see right now in this demonstration is where we've taken open ship for and made a bare metal cluster right here on this stage. This is a fully automated platform. There is no underlying hyper visor below this platform. It's open ship running on bare metal. And this is your crew vanities. Native infrastructure, where we brought together via mes containers networking and storage with me right now is green mush arma. She's one of her engineering leaders responsible for infrastructure technologies. Please welcome to the stage, Karima. >> Thank you. My pleasure to be here, whether it had summit. So let's start a cloud. Rid her dot com and here we can see the classroom Dannon Jessica working on just a few moments ago From here we have a bird's eye view ofthe all of our open ship plasters across the hybrid cloud from multiple cloud providers to on premises and noticed the spare medal last year. Well, that's the one that my team built right here on this stage. So let's go ahead and open the admin console for that last year. Now, in this demo, we'LL take a look at three things. A multi plaster inventory for the open Harbor cloud at cloud redhead dot com. Second open shift container storage, providing convert storage for virtual machines and containers and the same functionality for cloud vert and bare metal. And third, everything we see here is scuba unit is native, so by plugging directly into communities, orchestration begin common storage. Let working on monitoring facilities now. Last year, we saw how continue native actualization and Q Bert allow you to run virtual machines on Cabinet is an open shift, allowing for a single converge platform to manage both containers and virtual machines. So here I have this dark net project now from last year behead of induced virtual machine running it S P darknet application, and we had started to modernize and continue. Arise it by moving. Parts of the application from the windows began to the next containers. So let's take a look at it here. I have it again. >> Oh, large shirt, you windows. Earlier on, I was playing this game back stage, so it's just playing a little solitaire. Sorry about that. >> So we don't really have time for that right now. Birds. But as I was saying, Over here, I have Visions Studio Now the window's virtual machine is just another container and open shift and the i d be service for the virtual machine. It's just another service in open shift open shifts. Running both containers and virtual machines together opens a whole new world of possibilities. But why stop there? So this here be broadened to come in. It is native infrastructure as our vision to redefine the operation's off on premises infrastructure, and this applies to all matters of workloads. Using open shift on metal running all the way from the data center to the edge. No by your desk, right to main benefits. Want to help reduce the operation casts And second, to help bring advance good when it is orchestration concept to your infrastructure. So next, let's take a look at storage. So open shift container storage is software defined storage, providing the same functionality for both the public and the private lads. By leveraging the operator framework, open shift container storage automatically detects the available hardware configuration to utilize the discs in the most optimal vein. So then adding my note, you don't have to think about how to balance the storage. Storage is just another service running an open shift. >> And I really love this dashboard quite honestly, because I love seeing all the storage right here. So I'm kind of curious, though. Karima. What kind of storage would you What, What kind of applications would you use with the storage? >> Yeah, so this is the persistent storage. To be used by a database is your files and any data from applications such as a Magic Africa. Now the A Patrick after operator uses school, been at this for scheduling and high availability, and it uses open shift containers. Shortest. Restore the messages now Here are on premises. System is running a caf co workload streaming sensor data on DH. We want toe sort it and act on it locally, right In a minute. A place where maybe we need low latency or maybe in a data lake like situation. So we don't want to send the starter to the cloud. Instead, we want to act on it locally, right? Let's look at the griffon a dashboard and see how our system is doing so with the incoming message rate of about four hundred messages for second, the system seems to be performing well, right? I want to emphasize this is a fully integrated system. We're doing the testing An optimization sze so that the system can Artoo tune itself based on the applications. >> Okay, I love the automated operations. Now I am a curious because I know other folks in the audience want to know this too. What? Can you tell us more about how there's truly integrated communities can give us an example of that? >> Yes. Again, You know, I want to emphasize everything here is managed poorly by communities on open shift. Right. So you can really use the latest coolest to manage them. All right. Next, let's take a look at how easy it is to use K native with azure functions to script alive Reaction to a live migration event. >> Okay, Native is a great example. If actually were part of my breakout session yesterday, you saw me demonstrate came native. And actually, if you want to get hands on with it tonight, you can come to our guru night at five PM and actually get hands on like a native. So I really have enjoyed using K. Dated myself as a software developer. And but I am curious about the azure functions component. >> Yeah, so as your functions is a function is a service engine developed by Microsoft fully open source, and it runs on top of communities. So it works really well with our on premises open shift here. Right now, I have a simple azure function that I already have here and this azure function, you know, Let's see if this will send out a tweet every time we live My greater Windows virtual machine. Right. So I have it integrated with open shift on DH. Let's move a note to maintenance to see what happens. So >> basically has that via moves. We're going to see the event triggered. They trigger the function. >> Yeah, important point I want to make again here. Windows virtue in machines are equal citizens inside of open shift. We're investing heavily in automation through the use of the operator framework and also providing integration with the hardware. Right, So next, Now let's move that note to maintain it. >> But let's be very clear here. I wanna make sure you understand one thing, and that is there is no underlying virtual ization software here. This is open ship running on bear. Meddle with these bare metal host. >> That is absolutely right. The system can automatically discover the bare metal hosts. All right, so here, let's move this note to maintenance. So I start them Internets now. But what will happen at this point is storage will heal itself, and communities will bring back the same level of service for the CAFTA application by launching a part on another note and the virtual machine belive my great right and this will create communities events. So we can see. You know, the events in the event stream changes have started to happen. And as a result of this migration, the key native function will send out a tweet to confirm that could win. It is native infrastructure has indeed done the migration for the live Ian. Right? >> See the events rolling through right there? >> Yeah. All right. And if we go to Twitter? >> All right, we got tweets. Fantastic. >> And here we can see the source Nord report. Migration has succeeded. It's a pretty cool stuff right here. No. So we want to bring you a cloud like experience, but this means is we're making operational ease a fuse as a top goal. We're investing heavily in encapsulating management knowledge and working to pre certify hardware configuration in working with their partners such as Dell, and they're dead already. Note program so that we can provide you guidance on specific benchmarks for specific work loads on our auto tuning system. >> All right, well, this is tow. I know right now, you're right thing, and I want to jump on the stage and check out the spare metal cluster. But you should not right. Wait After the keynote didn't. Come on, check it out. But also, I want you to go out there and think about visiting our partner Del and their booth where they have one. These clusters also. Okay, So this is where vmc networking and containers the storage all come together And a Kurban in his native infrastructure. You've seen right here on this stage, but an agreement. You have a bit more. >> Yes. So this is literally the cloud coming down from the heavens to us. >> Okay? Right here, Right now. >> Right here, right now. So, to close the loop, you can have your plaster connected to cloud redhead dot com for our insights inside reliability engineering services so that we can proactively provide you with the guidance through automated analyses of telemetry in logs and help flag a problem even before you notice you have it Beat software, hardware, performance, our security. And one more thing. I want to congratulate the engineers behind the school technology. >> Absolutely. There's a lot of engineers here that worked on this cluster and worked on the stack. Absolutely. Thank you. Really awesome stuff. And again do go check out our partner Dale. They're just out that door I can see them from here. They have one. These clusters get a chance to talk to them about how to run your open shift for on a bare metal cluster as well. Right, Kareema, Thank you so much. That was totally awesome. We're at a time, and we got to turn this back over to Paul. >> Thank you. Right. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks >> again. Burned, Kareema. Awesome. You know, So even with all the exciting capabilities that you're seeing, I want to take a moment to go back to the to the first platform tenant that we learned with rail, that the platform has to be developer friendly. Our next guest knows something about connecting a technology like open shift to their developers and part of their company. Wide transformation and their ability to shift the business that helped them helped them make take advantage of the innovation. Their Innovation award winner this year. Please, Let's welcome Ed to the stage. >> Please welcome. Twenty nineteen. Innovation Award winner. BP Vice President, Digital transformation. Ed Alford. >> Thanks, Ed. How your fake Good. So was full. Get right into it. What we go you guys trying to accomplish at BP and and How is the goal really important in mandatory within your organization? Support on everyone else were global energy >> business, with operations and over seventy countries. Andi. We've embraced what we call the jewel challenge, which is increasing the mind for energy that we have as individuals in the world. But we need to produce the energy with fuel emissions. It's part of that. One of our strategic priorities that we >> have is to modernize the whole group on. That means simplifying our processes and enhancing >> productivity through digital solutions. So we're using chlo based technologies >> on, more importantly, open source technologies to clear a community and say, the whole group that collaborates effectively and efficiently and uses our data and expertise to embrace the jewel challenge and actually try and help solve that problem. That's great. So So how did these heart of these new ways of working benefit your team and really the entire organ, maybe even the company as a whole? So we've been given the Innovation Award for Digital conveyor both in the way it was created and also in water is delivering a couple of guys in the audience poll costal and brewskies as he they they're in the team. Their teams developed that convey here, using our jail and Dev ops and some things. We talk about this stuff a lot, but actually the they did it in a truly our jail and develops we, um that enabled them to experiment and walking with different ways. And highlight in the skill set is that we, as a group required in order to transform using these approaches, we can no move things from ideation to scale and weeks and days sometimes rather than months. Andi, I think that if we can take what they've done on DH, use more open source technology, we contain that technology and apply across the whole group to tackle this Jill challenge. And I think that we use technologists and it's really cool. I think that we can no use technology and open source technology to solve some of these big challenges that we have and actually just preserve the planet in a better way. So So what's the next step for you guys at BP? So moving forward, we we are embracing ourselves, bracing a clothed, forced organization. We need to continue to live to deliver on our strategy, build >> over the technology across the entire group to address the jewel >> challenge and continue to make some of these bold changes and actually get into and really use. Our technology is, I said, too addresses you'LL challenge and make the future of our planet a better place for ourselves and our children and our children's children. That's that's a big goal. But thank you so much, Ed. Thanks for your support. And thanks for coming today. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now comes the part that, frankly, I think his best part of the best part of this presentation We're going to meet the type of person that makes all of these things a reality. This tip this type of person typically works for one of our customers or with one of with one of our customers as a partner to help them make the kinds of bold goals like you've heard about today and the ones you'll hear about Maura the way more in the >> week. I think the thing I like most about it is you feel that reward Just helping people I mean and helping people with stuff you enjoy right with computers. My dad was the math and science teacher at the local high school. And so in the early eighties, that kind of met here, the default person. So he's always bringing in a computer stuff, and I started a pretty young age. What Jason's been able to do here is Mohr evangelize a lot of the technologies between different teams. I think a lot of it comes from the training and his certifications that he's got. He's always concerned about their experience, how easy it is for them to get applications written, how easy it is for them to get them up and running at the end of the day. We're a loan company, you know. That's way we lean on accounting like red. That's where we get our support front. That's why we decided to go with a product like open shift. I really, really like to product. So I went down. The certification are out in the training ground to learn more about open shit itself. So my daughter's teacher, they were doing a day of coding, and so they asked me if I wanted to come and talk about what I do and then spend the day helping the kids do their coding class. The people that we have on our teams, like Jason, are what make us better than our competitors, right? Anybody could buy something off the shelf. It's people like him. They're able to take that and mold it into something that then it is a great offering for our partners and for >> customers. Please welcome Red Hat Certified Professional of the Year Jason Hyatt. >> Jason, Congratulations. Congratulations. What a what a big day, huh? What a really big day. You know, it's great. It's great to see such work, You know that you've done here. But you know what's really great and shows out in your video It's really especially rewarding. Tow us. And I'm sure to you as well to see how skills can open doors for for one for young women, like your daughters who already loves technology. So I'd liketo I'd like to present this to you right now. Take congratulations. Congratulations. Good. And we I know you're going to bring this passion. I know you bring this in, everything you do. So >> it's this Congratulations again. Thanks, Paul. It's been really exciting, and I was really excited to bring my family here to show the experience. It's it's >> really great. It's really great to see him all here as well going. Maybe we could you could You guys could stand up. So before we leave before we leave the stage, you know, I just wanted to ask, What's the most important skill that you'LL pass on from all your training to the future generations? >> So I think the most important thing is you have to be a continuous learner you can't really settle for. Ah, you can't be comfortable on learning, which I already know. You have to really drive a continuous Lerner. And of course, you got to use the I ninety. Maxwell. Quite. >> I don't even have to ask you the question. Of course. Right. Of course. That's awesome. That's awesome. And thank you. Thank you for everything, for everything that you're doing. So thanks again. Thank you. You know what makes open source work is passion and people that apply those considerable talents that passion like Jason here to making it worked and to contribute their idea there. There's back. And believe me, it's really an impressive group of people. You know you're family and especially Berkeley in the video. I hope you know that the redhead, the certified of the year is the best of the best. The cream of the crop and your dad is the best of the best of that. So you should be very, very happy for that. I also and I also can't wait. Teo, I also can't wait to come back here on this stage ten years from now and present that same award to you. Berkeley. So great. You should be proud. You know, everything you've heard about today is just a small representation of what's ahead of us. We've had us. We've had a set of goals and realize some bold goals over the last number of years that have gotten us to where we are today. Just to recap those bold goals First bait build a company based solely on open source software. It seems so logical now, but it had never been done before. Next building the operating system of the future that's going to run in power. The enterprise making the standard base platform in the op in the Enterprise Olympics based operating system. And after that making hybrid cloud the architecture of the future make hybrid the new data center, all leading to the largest software acquisition in history. Think about it around us around a company with one hundred percent open source DNA without. Throughout. Despite all the fun we encountered over those last seventeen years, I have to ask, Is there really any question that open source has won? Realizing our bold goals and changing the way software is developed in the commercial world was what we set out to do from the first day in the Red Hat was born. But we only got to that goal because of you. Many of you contributors, many of you knew toe open source software and willing to take the risk along side of us and many of partners on that journey, both inside and outside of Red Hat. Going forward with the reach of IBM, Red hat will accelerate. Even Mohr. This will bring open source general innovation to the next generation hybrid data center, continuing on our original mission and goal to bring open source technology toe every corner of the planet. What I what I just went through in the last hour Soul, while mind boggling to many of us in the room who have had a front row seat to this overto last seventeen plus years has only been red hats. First step. Think about it. We have brought open source development from a niche player to the dominant development model in software and beyond. Open Source is now the cornerstone of the multi billion dollar enterprise software world and even the next generation hybrid act. Architecture would not even be possible without Lennox at the core in the open innovation that it feeds to build around it. This is not just a step forward for software. It's a huge leap in the technology world beyond even what the original pioneers of open source ever could have imagined. We have. We have witnessed open source accomplished in the last seventeen years more than what most people will see in their career. Or maybe even a lifetime open source has forever changed the boundaries of what will be possible in technology in the future. And in the one last thing to say, it's everybody in this room and beyond. Everyone outside continue the mission. Thanks have a great sum. It's great to see it

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, Lisa Martin with theCUBE, live day three of theCUBE's double set coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019 I am with Stu Miniman. We've got one alumni back. We've got Gil Schneorson, Senior Vice President and General Manager of Vxrail. Gil welcome back. >> Thank you nice to be back. >> And it's show and tell you brought Niv Raz CTO of Harel Insurance one of your successful customers, Niv it's great to have you on the program. >> Thank you and great to be here. >> So Niv let's start with you. Give our audience an understanding of Harel Insurance where you're located, what it is that you do and then we'll get into why think Dell EMC is so fantastic. >> Harel Insurance is a insurance company doing a life, now life insurances very wide portfolio of business products in the insurance and investments in Israel. More than 5000 employees and three million customers managing around 240 billion shekels in 2018. So it's very innovative company to work in. >> So Niv interesting. Dell has a podcast and I'm just given a little plug here 'cause at the gym this morning the latest episode by Walter Issacson talks about transformation going on in the insurance business. Some people think, oh insurance has been around a long time, I mean heck to the Roman Era when they had some of this but today Insurance is changing fast. Can you give us at a macro level, give us what are some the changes and stresses on the company and how's that impact your job. >> It's funny you mentioning that. In 2015 our CEO has declared innovative program named Recalculating Routes. The purpose of the program the strategic plan was to take a role from traditional insurance company to more digital transform, data transform. We Israel has the brokers. The brokers are our sales person but once the customer and the sales part, the onboarding part, you want a more innovative service after that. The post service part is very hard in insurance and we investing a lot to make the post service customer experience very advantaged. >> We talk a lot about customer insurance at every, oh sorry, customer insurance, well that's important too, customer experience is the word I was going for. It's essential right because in 2019 customers of any type of product or service have so much choice. So talk to us Niv from looking through that lens of delivering an outstanding customer experience obviously your sales folks need to have innovative technology to deliver that outstanding customer experience. But when a company says we've got to transform digitally we've got to stay ahead of the market, delight our customers Where do you start? Talk to us about maybe a phased approach that you're taking to digital transformation. >> Digital transformation is all about how customer experience feel like in your environment. So if a person entering your website and trying to do some post service and running into some old fashionable process that is very hard to him and its really frustrating to do that. And actually if I look about what our approach about it, we're thinking about the digital transformation, we're thinking about how to take the onboarding part for our brokers, the post service for our customers, to make the process, the services we are offering to our customers easy as possible to just can submit. >> All right so Gil let's bring you into the discussion here. And I think back Converge Infrastructure, Hyper-converge Infrastructure you've been riding the rocket ship that is Vxrail, digital transformation wasn't the leading use for that when we started. It was simplification driving that wave of virtualization, we've heard Vxrail everywhere in the discussion this week. It was like all of these different cloud pieces, what's underneath them, VxRail. Help us connect the dots, the transformations that your customers are going where VxRail and the new solutions built with VxRail help enable your customers. >> Yeah thanks Stu. We talk about a digital transformation a lot. Reality is that many of the customers, not all of them are transformative like Harel Insurance right. Many of them look at ATI and VxRail as the next simple tech refresh. They see the agility, they see the economical benefit but there's a growing majority of customers who look to this is as transformational. And so that's where you see ATI and VxRail specifically in our case starting to grow beyond being an infrastructure for workloads to be an infrastructure for their hybrid cloud and multi cloud environment. So what is so exciting about this show is because we've been very successful we're growing very fast, but by putting this building block in many of our customers' data centers they've made the choice that will enable them to now embark on a more transformational strategy. And I think we demonstrated in the last two days that hybrid cloud is here and it's sellable, operational and with VxRail and the integration with VML cloud foundation and the ability to add and burst into a cloud move workloads It's here and its now, I thinks that's what's nice about this whole thing. >> All right so Gil it's great for you to say it even as an analyst as a media organization for us to say it but what we love is that you brought a customer here to tell us the reality as to where cloud fits into your overall discussion. And I would love your feedback as to what Gil's saying. What's the reality in your world and the impact on your work >> I would connect the previous question this one because it's like a very rolling on questions about it. So you as the customers your expectations about the company is to do every operation from everywhere very easy way and the mobility and the digital transformation itself all the mobile applications, all the things that's taking the customer experience to the next level will took the organization to a phase that I need understand how to scalable the systems. So in this journey when you're looking about digital transformation you must have a infrastructure that support the scalability, the elasticity, the availability that the customer demands. You don't think to yourself that you are enter some E-commerce customer and they will send you on application. sorry Sir, we currently offline the management reasons or maintenance reasons. That thing in 2019 you will not think about and it's not be acceptable. So to do a scalability our multi cloud strategy in Harel is to have infrastructure free environment to focus on the service applications and not to focus on the infrastructure management part. That's the big concerns of our IT teams was how to care about support and matrix's and compatibility and maintenance and when you go into the private cloud environment, the private cloud environment, that's VxRail on the bottom and VML cloud foundation on the top allow Harel is to start the journey to a phase that said okay we're going to our infrastructure free road map. >> Tell us about the outcomes that for example go back to, what we were talking about your brokers who need to be able to deliver any service. I imagine they're out in the field sometimes with customers depending on the types of services that they need to deliver. What has been some of the feedback or maybe the outcomes for the brokers. Are they able to do their jobs faster, deliver quotes faster to customers. What are some of the exciting outcomes that you're seeing as a result of the infrastructure that Dell EMC is helping you to establish. >> Part of digital transformation we're talking about micro servicing a lot of old virtual machines I'm saying that. So service applications on the password virtual machine now your micro services, why you micro servicing it because in 8:00 a.m, perhaps there is 20 persons that's selling your policies but perhaps on the 11:00 after some TV show said something about Harel you can have thousands of customers entering to your website. So how you can support that? So again brokers need the tools to support the operation, the sales operations and the customers need the tools to support the post service for themselves, how to claim, how to do claims how to do more preventives aspects of insurances. So basically again when you're looking about what exciting is, is the reality that I'm seeing a process of a customer and is saying, wow that was easy. So taking the digital transformation to make our customer experience better. >> All right Gil help us zoom out a little bit. We talked to one customer here but the business overall joint product development between Dell EMC and the VMware teams is something that we think was transformational and helped accelerate the HTI growth. What are some the big drivers what's changed in the business. Give us the overall update. >> Yeah look, I think that when we discovered that working together pays off through our joint leadership through examples like VxRail and others we started looking at every part of the business and how collaboration could enable us to add even more value and any value transfer to finances and there's a very strong interest in so this recent innovation we've introduced with integration with cloud foundation, people don't realize how much work goes into integrating two products regardless, even between 1 company you're talking about engineers co-location, you're talking about joint sprints you're talking about test fests, design workshop, customers interaction and so, but you know what I mean, it pays off. You deliver a new outcome that didn't exist before now with VCF and VxRail you can have a full life cycle management of the entire VMX stack and the entire hardware stack drivers, framework everything life cycled together, it's a very, very impressive outcome and it's ready now and I'm really thinking that shift is going to be more than just ATI, people are going to start embracing the full stack because they can, because we're simplifying it. In addition to that Stu I think it's important to understand or I'd like the people to know that the other way we're taking the ATI stack and the full stack is into much more intelligence so machine learning and predictability all the way eventually to remediation and so in this show we introduced the analytical consulting engine for VxRail and we put it out there as a field trial, as an early access. The thought process is we have a very large amount of intelligent customers that could tell us where they need this to take them. What's exciting about it is that every product these days is trying to be intelligent because we have a full stack we have a lot of context, a lot of things we could correlate. So we're very excited about this and we're hoping that our customers will participate in that design, I'm sure Harel will as soon as we can give it to them, the access and, not only full stack but make it much more intelligent, I think it's going to be very exciting year til next time we speak. >> Harel you have? >> Something to say about it. We are customers, us as an organization understand the public cloud allowed us to be infrastructure free and now they said okay some workloads are good for public cloud some workloads are good for private cloud and the multi cloud approach that VMcloud Foundation gives us the infrastructure free to just focus on the services. You need to understand the manageability of traditional infrastructure is very costly. Why? You need to manage it, you need to support it, you need to upgrade the frameworks, the buyers, the drivers and all the time to be concerned about if everything is supportable, how you do that all the job and again once you taking the VxRail as a hardware platform for that and the VMcloud foundation the software you getting a complete life cycle that assist you to just focusing about to be a service broker just add new services to the exist environment. >> Well Niv, thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing with Stu and me where you guys are on this digital transformation journey, the successes you've achieved so far with Dell EMC, Gil again always great to have you on the program and we can't wait to hear more next year maybe Ace is going to give us some really insightful insights that will be groundbreaking. >> I believe so. Thank you very much. >> For Stu Minneman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching us on theCUBE, live from day three of our coverage of Dell Technologies World. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Los Vegas. It's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Los Vegas everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is our wall-to-wall coverage. We're wrapping up day one. I'm Dave Alonte, my cohost here at this segment is Stu Miniman. Jon Siegal is here as the vice president of product marketing, cubulum from Dehli MC. Good to see you again Jon. >> Great to be back as always guys! >> And I love that you brought a customer, Suzan Pickett is here. >> That's what I do, by the way. You realize that, that's my new thing. >> Suzan is the VP and director of Converged Infrastructure at US Bank. >> Thank you for having me. >> Welcome, one of my banks. I got a lease with US Bank. You guys are great. >> Thank you. >> Great to have you guys. >> Let's start with a customer, if that's okay? >> Absolutely. >> Tell us about your role, you got CI in your title that's interesting. >> I do. >> That's a relatively new trend, explain that. >> Yeah absolutely, so I've been at the bank a couple years now and my teams focus on Converged and Hyperconverged Infrastructure, delivering solutions and infrastructure as a service for our business. >> You guys have been working together for a while if I understand it Jon, right? Talk a little bit about what's happening here at the show maybe give us a quick overview of what's happening in CI and HCI in your world. >> Absolutely, so a lot going on as you saw today in Dell Tech cloud announcement. HCI was a key pillar there. Really VxRail, in particular, was featured as the simple and fast foundation for the Dell Tech cloud both as the on-prem manage version as well as, as you heard, the Data Center as a service. So really exciting to see how HCI continues to evolve and it's use cases around cloud and infrastructure as a service, as well as platform as a service as well. So a lot of exciting announcements there. In addition to that, just this past week, by the way, we also, since you mentioned CI, Converged Infrastructure, we just announced that we re-upped our agreement with Cisco, a new multiyear agreement extension to continue to innovate with Cisco on the VxBlock, which, as you know, was the pioneer in this, Converged Infrastructure space and with all the recent integrations we've done now with VMware, VxBlock as well as HCI, is really built to be a on-prem foundation for the cloud. >> Yeah so, this goes back to 2009, when Cisco and VMware and EMC got together and created this concept of Converged Infrastructure. There were other competitors in the market, but you guys kind of lead that trend, and so when you go back to that years ago, that's our storage and networking and compute, they were different parts of the organization. I presume you guys went through a similar journey. You had to put all that together. Herd some calves. And what did that do for your business? What was your journey like to CI? >> I think we're still on that journey, but I think it's also evolving as we go more Agile and more DevOps, more software-defined, we're seeing a lot more blending of the teams as well so we're creating a lot of virtual teams that encompass not just infrastructure but security, developers, networking as well and really being able to deliver that infrastructure's service, platform as a service, end-to-end provisioning for our business lines. >> Suzan, I love that story because I remember talking to, when this started, you talk to the storage group and they'd say, "Oh my gosh, you're going to take away my job." I'm like, "You know that security thing that they've been yelling at you to fix for a while? You talk about the new business apps that we need to do. These are the types of jobs that we want you to do." I heard you talk about Agile and DevOps and all these things. Talk a little bit about, what are the pressures you're facing from the business and the relationship between your group that help you to meet those now. >> Sure, well the first thing we did was we created an infrastructure automation services team and people looked at us like we're a little crazy to do that and we pull those highly, highly motivated potentials from within the organization that we already had to focus on automation and get the foundation for infrastructure as a service and get that part right. Something as basic as provisioning a virtual machine would take 12 weeks or longer and through our journey with Kubernetes today, containers, vRealize Automation Suite, on both Converge and Hyperconverge, VxFlex. We're now reducing that down to about three days and we anticipate, with a lot of our sprints and iterations, that we're going to be getting that down to less than a day within the next quarter. >> So John Furry says that automation is the killer app for infrastructure, so are you guys, are you building essentially out on infrastructure as a service platform, where people used to call it private cloud. I don't know if you use that term still. I think it's still valid. >> We do, yeah. >> How's that going? What's been the business impact of that so-called private cloud? >> We had a Business Critical Application that would often take year release cycles, more than 12 weeks to get a server, primarily focusing on physical servers, and now what we're doing is we're partnering with them with not only the business, the application folks, the developers, the middleware teams, networks, security, but also all of the infrastructure teams to deliver that faster speed to market, and so now they're down to days now to provision. They actually gave us a stat the other day that said, "By using our automation with Kubernetes on Hyperconverge VxFlex, that they were able to have cost avoidance of hiring a bunch of people to build physical servers. So that in and of itself was a huge win, but the fact that we can repurpose and releverage that automation, those workflows, the orchestration models, means that we can continue this conversation with the next business line and the next business line and keep telling that story and it's a good one. >> Jon I'd live to hear from what Suzan was saying and there's so many of the modern things that they're doing. When you look at your customer base, how are they doing on that journey? We used to always ask, in the earlier days, it was like, alright how much was I just eliminating sub-silos but pretty much doing the same apps and same processes before or have I really gone through some transformation? >> I tell you what, we've seen quite a bit of transformation in our customer base because they had to. You look at now, as you see with US Banks, they're now transforming their organization to support DevOps, right? That's an entirely new realm for them to focus on. That means they need to make infrastructure easier and simpler so we're finding that is really, I think, that's the catalyst and that they're realizing that the way to do this is let's make infrastructure as simple as possible. Infrastructure service. Make that platform as a service available so our customers can spend less, wait, our IT department can spend less time on the speeds and fees, if you will, of maintaining infrastructure, more time innovating up the stack versus down the stack, right? >> Alright Suzan, I got to ask a question Jon probably doesn't want me to ask you. You're trying to simplify, 'cause you're doing all this stuff that's not really adding value to your business, you want to do stuff that's going to make you more competitive. Well why don't you just throw all this stuff in the cloud? >> Good question and I think that eventually we will have a multicloud strategy, but it is a bank and we don't want to be in the news for a data breach and that's the real answer but also because we want to, again, lay that foundation for an on-premise, solid infrastructure as a service with service catalogs at the business. We can then drive that product taxonomy and they know that they get a good, solid product from IT and then we extend that into the cloud so as much as we can do that, and maybe there will be some cloud native apps down the road that go 100% in the public cloud. I don't have a crystal ball. I suspect there will be, but again we want to do it right and we think this is the right foundation to lay for that. >> You want to have total control over, certainly, your mission critical apps, I'm presuming, right? Maybe put some stuff up. I'm sure you have plenty of stuff in the cloud. Well why Dell EMC? >> I think it goes back to our strategic partnership. It's always been that strong partnership, that enablement, and that continuous feedback loop. We need something, we go talk to our product teams. We get that back, we get it back from our product teams, so it's not always perfect, and there are competitors out there, but at the end of the day, when we look at the Dell Technologies family and that ecosystem and our ability to integrate, iterate, automate within that family, it just helps us stream like that and standardize. >> We've heard this morning from a lot of folks. Michael Dell talked about it. Jeff Clark talked about it. Companies want to consolidate the number of suppliers, certainly infrastructure suppliers, throwing sass forget it, so many apps now. Are you seeing that? Is there pressure to consolidate the number of suppliers, or do you still have, in certain cases, where you really want to go best of breed, so-called best of breed, for some niche app, or do you want to consolidate suppliers? >> So I always want to standardize because that's going to help our automation story, but I still want best of breed, and so that's one of the primary reasons that we're standardized on Dell Technologies today. VxFlex being one of them and Converged Infrastructure being another. There are use cases for multi-vendor strategy, but again, you would look at the right solution for the right job at the right time. >> Okay Jon, that was a totally loaded question, so can you be both a portfolio company like yours and still be best of breed and if so, how so? >> Well I think what we are, we certainly are a portfolio company in the way that, but I think we have leading infrastructure, leading solutions in each case. You take things like Hyperconverge and Converge, great example of that, and I think what we see at the US Bank is that that porfolio of solutions is what's actually enabling US Bank to essentially address all other challenges, right? Whether it's the IS, whether it's the crown jewel applications that Suzan's trying to support, whether it's the DevOps that they're trying to actually build out right now. We've got best of breed solutions for each of those as well within our portfolio. And also, I would say that we're really focused on, ultimately, a portfolio with a purpose meaning that we're taking our networking, for example, portfolio, you just talk to Drew Shulkin. Together with out HCI portfolio, and we're ensuring that they work really seamlessly together so that in the case of, for example, working with, say VxRail or VxRack, we're able to automate all the networking for a HCI environment or at least 98% of it. That's really, again, taking but that's because we're best of breed and porfolio at the same time. >> Yeah so, I'm throwing all kinds of loaded questions out here, and I want to understand this because as independent observers you get Company A says this, Company B says that, but the customer's ultimately the arbiter. How do you, maybe not define, but how do you look at best of breed, what is best of breed to you? >> I look at the technology that's going to make me look good and that's going to make my teams look good and that's not just day one, that's day two and I think that's where the differentiator is as well. We've always found that Dell Technologies is there to support us. Stuff breaks, right? Your car needs oil, your tires need rotating, and it's the same with equipment in the Data Center. How those companies react and they support and they have your back when that happens, I think is the key differentiator and we always found Dell Technologies to be there for us. >> So I'm hearing the breadth, the porfolio. We haven't talked about services but I know that's a key part of it. >> Well, Suzan I hear you talking about day two. CI helped simplify that day one and then, as it matured, it worked more on the day two, and HCI even more. When you talk about the cloud solutions from Dell EMC, that cloud operating model. When you think about public cloud, I don't think about what version I'm on, it takes care of that. When I hear some of the solutions from Dell, it's getting to that model. How are they doing along that that spectrum, I guess, from the, "Okay I need to do the RCM and manage when I do the updates" to "I don't even think about it anymore." >> Sure, I think it is still something that we all care about as much as we're told we shouldn't care about it, I care. I want to make sure that we're doing the right things at the right time. I think it's a journey. I think we've come a long way in the last few years and I think that every year it gets better and as we start extending to that multicloud, obviously that's going to drive some of that solutioning as well. I think we'll continue to see improvement in that area. >> What is something that you'd like to see Jon do to make your life better? (laughs) Besides cut prices, you can't say cut prices. >> Alright, cut prices. >> Every year you cut prices. >> Let's talk about that deal. I think just continuing to be there, continuing to represent, bringing forth the products, the products team, helping us be strategic and also be very tactical. While I have this one last opportunity 'cause I don't know where we are timewise. I just want to shout out to my team. Right, so it's not just the Dell Technologies team that's bringing all this to the table, it's my team and the organization and my peer teams as well. We just keep sharing, we keep collaborating, and we keep iterating. >> Yeah Jon, one of the things, talk about collaboration, my understanding is Suzan's part of one of the user groups here. You know, big community. >> Yes. >> We always talk about at these shows. Maybe you can share that. >> Yeah so Suzan is actually a new board member for our Converge user group which has been around for several years now and she just joined a few months ago. >> I did. >> And I think that we talk about collaboration and feedback. Suzan is representing not just her own team, she's representing teams around IT around the world. And I think she's a great example of providing feedback, not just at Dell EMC directly, but to other users as well, and best practices and tips and tricks. We have a user group tomorrow at three o'clock. I think couple big executives might be there as well, so it's going to be a lot of fun. So tomorrow at three o'clock. I think it's, at least, our sixth annual that we've had here. But the user group itself, I think exemplifies as much as you've been talking about 'cause that's evolved from being what used to just be about a user group just about blocks, VxBlocks, now it's about CI, it's about HCI, it's about VxBlock, it's about Dell Tech cloud. We have VMware on the panel as well as Dell EMC so I think you see the user group has evolved with our customers and with our portfolio. >> It's a community, it's a mechanism for people to say, "How did you do that" or "How should I do this" or "How do I get my team motivated" or "How do I collaborate with security?" These are tough questions and so I think just having that network of people that can come together and ask those questions and be transparent and be authentic, that's what it's about. >> Appearance, problem-solving, sharing ideas. >> Yeah. >> You've been a Converged Infrastructure client, customer for a number of years. >> I have. >> So you've seen pre-acquisition, how has the Dell EMC merger affected your perception of the company and your relationship with them? >> I think in the last year, or the previous year, we were all waiting to see where things fell and what was going to happen, and I think now it's found it's feet, right? We're starting to see some announcements in both the Converged and the VxFlex space, and it's really starting to come together and I think that story, the Dell Technologies family story is really starting to come together where maybe in the last 12, 18 months, there was a little bit of unknown there and so, we just kind of sitting back and waiting and curious but keep doing what we're doing using that best of breed, the best practices that we have on the floor. >> Alright awesome. Suzan, Jon, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a great segment. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate it. Alright, that's a wrap for day one. Dave Alonte, Stu Miniman, John Furry's over there. Lisa Martin, Rebecca Knight is here. This is day one, we got wall-to-wall coverage. Tomorrow, day two and day three. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. Michael Dell's coming on tomorrow. We got Pat Kelsey going to be on tomorrow. Tom Sweet's coming on later on in the week. Awesome coverage, check out thecube.net. This is Dave Alonte, Stu Miniman. We'll see you tomorrow, thanks for watching.

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cue covering Sisqo Live Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, everybody. You watching the Cube? The leader in live tech coverage is the first day of three days of coverage for Sisqo. Live for Europe. Lin Lucas is here. She's the chief marketing officer for Kohi City. Lend great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Great to see you here in Europe. >> We were just saying it's the first time that we've done this on the continent. So another >> first? Yeah. Another first. Been s so pleased to be in the U. S with you guys, that multiple shows. And now we were here in Barcelona, >> so it's a great venue. We've actually done a number of shows here. Then again, it's a pleasure having you on. Let's see, Let's get right to it. What's going on with you guys and Cisco? You got got some news. Let's talk about >> Absolutely. As you know, we don't stop innovating continuous innovation at Cohesity and a number of new things. So last week we announced a new Cisco validated design with hyper flex and Cohesity integrating for snapshot integration for backup and, of course, instant recovery of that critical data center infrastructure. And we're calling it hyper squared. So you get full hyper convergence for your primary and, of course, your backup. Another secondary application. >> And those guys just want to talk about hype reflects anywhere. Still, so it's like infinitive hype. Infinity, hyper flex, >> hyper square, >> so hyper squared. Love it. So you guys will. How does that work? You'll obviously you want to be the provider of data protection provider from Multi Cloud. That's a huge opportunity. So how do you do that? You'll you'll plug into whatever framework that customer wants. Presumably, a lot of customers wanted the Cisco framework out. Is that all? >> Oh, absolutely. Hit the nail on the head. I mean, Cisco, obviously, one of the most respected leaders in the world, tens of thousands of customers globally depend on them. I'm Francisco alum love being back here at the old stomping grounds and Cisco's been an investor in cohesive he now, since our serious sees. So, they really saw the promise in the benefit of what Kohi City offers with hybrid converge solutions for modern backup recovery. And to your point to the cloud. You know, Cisco's talking a lot about multi cloud here and cohesive E with our native cloud integration helps customers protect those backups on or those applications on hyper flex, and then instantly move them to a cloud of choice. And then, as you've mentioned, Cisco has so many fantastic relationships that there are very strong go to market partner with us. And when customers wanted by solution, they could get the whole solution from Cisco, including Cohesive >> Yulin. We're glad we have you on because connecting the dots between something like hyper converge, which we've been talking about for a number of years now, and how that fits into multi cloud. To some, it's a little clunky sometimes goods like. But I've got my data center. Or am I just doing backup to the cloud? Because what we know is customers, a. Cisco says their data is, you know, kind of de centred. It's no longer in the in the data center of all over the place. Companies like Kohi City can give you that centralized data protection. No matter where your environment is, walk us through what you're hearing from your customers. How they look at kind of their data center versus the multi cloud environment and data protection. >> Yeah, so I think it's Ah, you know, I think customers air now understanding that it's not either or right. There was a time when people thought, Wow, I'm going to move everything to the cloud And I really think there's a maturing of an understanding of what's going to work well for me in this cloud First world, what do I want to put there? And then what am I going to keep on premises? So that's one of the things that Cohee City innovated our core technology. A distributed Web scale file system spanning file system, which spans the data center and the cloud world seamlessly. And what we're seeing is customers air really using the cloud for archiving, getting off of tape because then they get that search capability very easy when they need Teo tearing and then, most importantly, disaster recovery. You know, in the event of something man made or natural, many, many organizations moving to the clouds for their second sight. And with Kohi City, that's very easy to make. That transfer happened in a very seamless way with our capability set. So I think what we're seeing is this really maturing of how customers look at it as a really holistic environment. And so Cisco calling it data centered. But we call this, you know, mass data fragmentation. And then with our spanning file system being able to really consolidate that now >> yeah, another thing that needs that kind of holistic view is security. I know it's something that's in your product. There was a random where announcement that you made last week tells how security fits into this world. >> Yeah, well, you know, I think we all hate to say it, but you know that old phrase, the new normal unfortunately ran somewhere, and malware has become the new normal for organizations of all sizes. You know, here in Europe, we have that off the situation with the N HS in the UK last year. Andi, it's happening everywhere. So you know one element that the's attackers air taking is looking at how to disable backups. And so this is really important that as a part of a holistic security strategy that organizations take a look at that attack vector. So what cohesive he's introduced is really unique. It's three steps. It's prevent its detect, prevent and then recover. So detect in terms of capabilities to see if there are nefarious changes being happened to the file system right, and then prevent with Helios automatically detecting and with our smart assistant providing that notification and then, if need be, recover with our instant mass restore capability, going back to any point in time with no performance issue. This is not taking time for the rehydration spanning file system doing this instantly and allowing an organization to basically say, Sorry, not today, attackers. We don't need to pay you because we can instantly restore back to a safe point in time. >> So let's unpack those a little bit. If we could detect piece, I presume there's an analytics component to that. You're you're observing the the behavior of the of the backup corpus is that right there, Which is a logical place because it's got all the corporate data in there >> that that's correct. So last year we introduced Helios, which is our global SAS space management system, as machine learning capability in it. And that's providing that machine learning based monitoring to see what kinds of anomalies may be happening that is then proactively alerted to the team >> and then the recovery piece, a ce Well, like you said, it's it's got to be fast. Gotta have high performance, high performance data movement, and that's fundamental to your file system. Is that what I'm hearing >> that architecture that's correct. That's one of the differences of our modern backup solution. Versus some of the non hyper converge architectures is the distributed Web file system, which our CEO Motorin, he was formally at Google, helped with developing their file system has what's called instant ability to go back into any point in time and recover not just one of'em, but actually at a v M wear. A couple years ago, we demonstrated thousands of'em is at a time, and the reason for that is this Web scale file system, which is really unique to Kohi City. And that's what allows a nightie organization to not be held hostage because they can not have two potentially spend not just ours, but even days with the old legacy systems trying to rehydrate. You know these backups if they have to go back potentially many months in time because you don't know that that ran somewhere may have been introduced, not say yesterday, but might have been several months ago, and that's one of the key advantages of this instant master store. >> I mean, this is super important rights, too, because we're talking about very granular levels of being able to dial up dial down. You could tune it by application of high value applications. You can. You have much greater granularity some of the crap locations that not, maybe not. It's important. So flexibility is key there. How about customers, any new customers that you can talk about? >> Absolutely. So one of the ones since we're here, it's just go live. So Cisco, along with Kohi City, we've been working with one of the largest global manufacturers of semiconductors and other electronic equipment, Tokyo Electron, based in Tokyo but also here in the U. K. On the continent. And they had one of those older backup solutions and were challenged with time. It was taking them to back up the restores not being predictable. So they've gone with Cohesive e running on Cisco UCS. Because we're a software to find platform. We offer our software on our customers, you know, choice of Certified Solutions and Cisco UCS. And so they've started with backup, but they're now moving very quickly into archiving to the cloud, helping reduce their costs and get off of tape and to disaster recovery. Ultimately, so super excited that together with Cisco, we could help this customer modernized their data center and, you know, accelerate their hybrid clouds strategy at the same time. >> Awesome. And then you guys were also protecting the Sisqo Live network here. What? Tell us about that? >> Yes. Oh, you know, Cisco builds an amazing network here. I mean, you've seen the operations center, a huge team of people. But as we all know, things could go wrong. Potentially. And so we are protecting the critical services that Cisco's providing to all of this is go live attendees here. So should something happen, which I'm sure won't. Kohi City will be used to instantly recover and bring backup critical services like DNA and other areas that they're depending on to serve. All of the thousands of showgoers here. >> So super hot space. We talked about this at PM World. Actually, last couple of years. Just how much activity and interest there is and the whole parlance is changing land on one of you could come and I used to be you back up when the world was tape. Now you're talking about data protection data management, which could mean a lot of things to a lot of people to a storage folks. It's, you know, it's pretty specific, but you're seeing a massive evolution of the space cloud. Clearly is the underpinning of the tailwind on it requires you guy's toe. To respond is an industry and cohesive, specifically is a company. So I wanted to talk about some of those major trends and how you guys are responding and you're leading. And, >> yeah, I think you know, folks have been a little bit surprised, like, Wait a minute. What's this kind of sleepy industry? Why is it getting all this funding? I mean, our own Siri's de funding. Middle of last year, two hundred fifty million dollars. Softbank banked along with Sequoia, of course. But really, the trend, as is being talked about Francisco Live, is data is. I don't want to say the new oil, but it's the water of the world, right? I mean, it's absolutely crucial to any business, the's days other than your talent. It's your most important business asset. >> And >> the pressure on the board and the CEO and the CEO and turn to be agile to do more with that data to know what you have because here we are in Europe, GDP are increasing, regulations is super important. And so you know, this has really brought for be need to create holistic ways to organize and manage and have visibility toe all of that data, and it's massively fragmented. We put out that research last year, massive data fragmentation and most of that data has been kind of under the water line in most people's minds. You know, you think about your primary applications and data that's really only twenty percent, and the other eighty percent in test Evan Analytics and Backup has been pretty fragmented in Siloed, and it hasn't yet had that vision of How could we consolidate that and move it into a modern space until folks like Mode Erin, you know, founded Cohesive E and applied those same hyper converge techniques that he did at new tonics. So I think that this investment just further validates the fact that data is the most important business asset, and people are really in need of new solutions to manage it, protected and then ultimately do Mohr with it gain insights out of it. >> You know, just a couple comments on that one is, you know, data. We always joke about data's the new oil. It's even more valuable because you can use data in multiple places. You can only put oil in your car once. And so so companies of being in and to realize that how valuable it is trying to understand that value, how to protect that and the GPR. It's interesting. It's it's really. The fines went into effect in Europe last May, but it's become a template, a framework globally. People, you know us. Compensate. All right, we gotta prepare for GPR. And then local jurisdictions announced thing. Well, that's a decent starting point. And so it's not just confined to Europe. It's really on everybody's mind. >> It is, and you brought up the cloud before. And you know the cloud is a new way for people to be agile, and they're getting a lot of value out of it. But it also continues to fragment their data and the visibility. No. In talking Teo Large CIA O of, ah, Fortune one hundred large organisation. He's actually has less visibility in many ways in the cloud because of the ease of proliferation of test ever. And that is creating Mohr. You know, stress, I would say in the system and need for solutions to both provide an enhanced set agility. Move data to the cloud, easily move it out when you need to. But also with regulation, be able to identify and delete. As you know, with GPR if needed, the information that you know your customer may ask you to remove from your systems. >> Yeah, well, I love this conversation a little following cohesively because you guys are up leveling the entire game. I've been following the data protection space for decades now, and the problem with data protection is has always been a bolt on, and companies like, oh, he city both with the funding your your vision. He really forcing the industry. They're kind of re think data protection, not as a bolt on what is a fundamental component of digital strategies and data strategy. So it's fun watching you guys. Congratulations on all the growth. I know you got more to go. So thanks so much for coming in the Cuban and always a pleasure to see you. >> All of always a pleasure to be here with you guys. Thanks very much. >> You're very welcome. All right. Keep it right there, buddy. Stew Minimum and David Lantz from Cisco Live. Barcelona. You watching the Cube?

>> CUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018 brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBe's Ecosystem Partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage. Wait, we're surrounded by green. I've got two gentlemen from Veeam here. No, but we're not at VeeamON. We're at Cisco Live 2018 here in Orlando, happy to welcome back to the program Carey Stanton and Rob Emsley. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Ace too. >> All right, yeah, so I was with you guys not too long ago at the VeeamON conference. I had a lot of fun in Chicago, brought back some of the famous popcorn for my family, but we're here in Orlando, so way bigger convention center, 26,000 people. We're all walking a lot, talking a lot about networking in Multi-Cloud and everything there. Tell us a little bit about your experience here at the show and what you've taken. >> Yeah, it's great, thanks, Stu. We have as you may know a tier-one partnership with Cisco. We're a platinum sponsor at this event and we're here all around our relationships with them on their data protection with their hyper-flex and their 32-60 and S2-40 relationships and we continue to see rapid growth in the channel and we have a direct-dedicated team selling with them on a global basis, so here making a lot of new connections across their other business units. >> Rob, I see the Green Veeam booth at almost every show I go to. >> Absolutely. >> How's Cisco different from some of the other ones that we go to? >> Well, one of the the things that Chuck Robins talked about in his keynote yesterday was how they summarize the focus of the company, and there's two specific areas that Veeam works very closely with Cisco on. One is the powering the Multi-Cloud, and unlocking the power of data. Those are two big focuses for us. You remember in Chicago, we're all about Multi-Cloud, On-Premises, Manage Cloud, Software as a Service, the Public Cloud; that's the reality of where data lives, so we're very much in lock-step with Cisco. We've been working with Cisco for several years. We last year became available through their global price list, so we're actually finding that Cisco in the data sensor, especially when you think about conversion infrastructure and hyper-conversion infrastructure, it's an area where we can really compliment what they're doing with their opportunities. >> Yeah, Carey, it's interesting because we go a lot of shows and we're hearing a lot of similar themes. Even I think the last time I'd come to the Cisco Live US show was 2009. Applications and data, it's like, oh, come on, those are just bits running through our pipes. It's not really a big deal. Well, we're here in the DevNet zone. We're talking about how Cisco's been moving up the stacks, how they're enabling companies to build new application, do cool things with wireless and SD-WAN and everything like that. I'm sure you must be seeing big change in a lot of your infrastructure partners that fits, as Rob said, that power of data and where that fits. >> Yeah, we're seeing it across the board and what we like about the relationship we have with Cisco is they look to us as their data availability experts, right? That we go into the data center conversation and they bring us in as their subject-matter experts, and that's where I think they want to expand their footprint in their TEM with their product lines, and whether it's UCS or hyper-flex, and they're bringing us into those discussions because we solve a unique problem that they otherwise wouldn't be able to solve. >> Yeah, Rob, you saw the keynote yesterday. I think we were a little surprised. Diane Green comes walking out there. Cisco of course, big push in Cloud. I've actually interviewed a number of Cisco executives of things like AWS Reinvent and the like. Does the Veeam partnership with Cisco, do you touch on some of the Public Cloud pieces as well as? >> Yeah, very much so. One of the things that Cisco is very focused on is their SOS provider right to market, so that's an area where we've been very focused over the last probably three to four years, building out and enabling often our resellers to become managers providers themselves, but the reality is that you're starting to look at that Public Cloud tie-in, whether it be Microsoft Azure, whether it be AWS or IBM Cloud, so these are really all areas where we can provide an on-ramp to connect any Cisco data center environment and provide a relationship with the Public Cloud, provide that data management level layer. >> Yeah, I think back. Cisco really helped a lot of the channel community mature their market. Went from being the silo network to building data center businesses back eight years ago when we started talking about conversion infrastructure. Today, this week I've interviewed Presidio and WWT. They're talking a lot about how they're helping customers, enabling that Cloud. I'd love to hear your perspectives on the maturation of the channel and how they fit in this multi-cloud world. >> Yeah, I mean, if you look at Veeam, where there are 55,000 channel partners our brand promises to remain a 100% channel-driven company, but having these relationships that are primary Cisco-predominant partners, like WWT, Presidio, ePlus, I think it's just opening up discussions that we otherwise wouldn't have had, and we're seeing 50% of the opportunities that we're closing in the field are Cisco-led opportunities that are being driven from these new channel partners, and so again, I think this is the one plus one equals three story that we talk a lot about, that we're bringing a lot to the table and 50% of the opportunities for them and vice versa for us. >> Yeah, one of the things that we really like about Cisco is their focus on their partner community is extremely high, both from the enablement perspective and the educational perspective. They have a fully resourced partner marketing team, and we've been doing a lot of work with them. One of the things that Cisco has been transitioning to, it sort of fits into your space, is the whole move to marketing in a digital world and the whole need to change the type of content, and this type of content you can think about the video sort of assets becomes so much more important, so we've been working very closely with them to do joint digital marketing. It's very easy sometimes to do joint event-based marketing, but when you start getting into digital, you really have to think outside the box about how you bring two companies together to meet in the digital world, so we've been really doing that to drive joint opportunities, and that's been something that we've really got some some success with from our relationship with Cisco. >> In fact, you were just in Barcelona. >> Yeah, every year they run a marketing summit for their channel partners and ecosystem partners, and we actually won the Cisco marketing innovation award for a digital marketing always on campaign slope, just full of assets for joint digital, for joint Cisco and Veeam customers. >> Congratulations, I did see some of that on some of the social media. Yeah, it's interesting to look at how marketing changes in this new digital world. I ask every CMO I talk to these days is to, "How is digital changing the way things happen?" >> Yeah, and you mentioned our other infrastructure partners and there's no other partner that we've worked with at the size of Cisco that embraced it day one, so they look to Veeam as, "Okay, we're going "to work with Veeam, we're going to go deeper, "we're going to bring them on our global prices," and day one they were, "How can we get intertwined "into what Veeam does extremely well as our digital marketing machine?" And just from the get-go they've just continued to accelerate through that process. >> Yeah, one of the things I know every partner loves when they come to an event like this, there's a lot of customers here. Give us a little insight if you can, either specific examples or give us some of the themes you're hearing from customers at the show. What's top of mind? What're some of the biggest challenges that they're facing today? >> Yeah, I mean, I think what they're looking at doing is from a refresh of legacy backup solutions and replication solutions into modernizing their data center, and so they're looking to Cisco as their experts through the last decade plus, and now that Veeam is tied directly in with Cisco in some of those relationships, so it's from a refresh standpoint, from a modernizing their data center to the hybrid Cloud strategies that it's intertwined. We fit very well into those discussions, and we're seeing our customers come to us in these large ELAs, where Cisco is bringing us in as part of those discussions, so again, where otherwise we would have had a hard time getting into it, their customers are coming and saying, "What is the relevancy? "Should I really be looking at this," and Cisco's backing up those discussions. >> Certainly, to tap down on the data sensor, conversion infrastructure and hyper-conversion infrastructure is top of mind for a lot of the customers that come in by the booth. Certainly, which works well for us, because some of our relationships with our other storage alliance partners, whether it be Pure or NetOut, big partners of Cisco, so rather than one plus one equals three, it's one plus one plus one equals five quite often. We're going together as a group in order to go after opportunities, so that's definitely an area. If you think about conversion, IP Converge, it's always highly virtualized, so that plays very well to where we've built the company from: a big focus on virtual machine availability, but we're just more moving that now to the whole concept of data management across a Multi-Cloud world. >> Yeah, absolutely. One of the things we talk at all the shows is the pace of change and how receptive are customers to making changes. What are you hearing from the customers here? The storage market has long been it's sticky, it's a little bit entrenched, making changes, and networking we used to measure in decades as to you roll this out and then I'll wait for the next major speed bump before we'll do that, and you'll roll that out over years. Today, we think things are moving faster, but we'd love to hear points or counterpoints that you're hearing. >> Well, I think that the customers are looking to Cisco, indirectly to Veeam from removing complexity, and I think what they've seen in the past is they've deployed solutions that have bogged down their process. They look to the Cloud as an agile environment and they look back with their Legacy systems that they know they can't continue, and so from my standpoint, the customers that we talk to consistently is, "Are you gonna be the platform that's gonna allow me "to embrace a hybrid Cloud and to remove the complexity "that I have and to be agile," and so that's constantly what the Veeam messaging is solving, right? Mission critical backup and recovery workloads and doing it at a fraction of the cost and accelerating that Veeam speed. >> Yeah, I mean, if you just take the Legacy backup market, Legacy back up installed base, it seems that the openness to change is greater now than I've ever seen it, and you know I've been playing around in this space for quite a few years, but certainly recently we've found the openness to people to look for something new. Our friends that gotten it always used to say the three things that people worry about, the three Cs: Cost, complexity, and capabilities, and those are still very much top of mind around what causes a customer to say, "Hey, what I've been doing for the last several years "hasn't quite been getting it done for me." I think the big change is that backup as an insurance policy is no longer good enough. I think the ability to leverage your backup infrastructure and the data contained within it is really driving people to think about, that's more of a value to me than simply having an insurance policy. >> Absolutely, backup was never enough. We do backup, I need to restore, but it's about that data. Want to give you the opportunity. Veeam is I think we said kind of a tweener. You're not what I would consider an old company. You've always been a software company, born in the virtualization age, but there's a bunch of newer developer focused and Cloud-native. How does Veeam stay and fight and compete against some of the new ones coming after this multi-billion dollar market? >> Want to take that? >> Yeah, well, I think that we pride ourselves on innovation. We pride ourselves on iterating very quickly, and we pride ourselves on adhering to our NPS score of 73, where there at 300,000 customers, and what we are gonna continue on our path, on what's made us successful, and we know that there's always competition. There's lots of VC money out there, and it's not that we're looking away from what the competition is doing. It's that we believe with our 4000 customers a month, our 133 customers that we close on a daily basis across all segments of SNB, commercial, and enterprise is indicative that our strategy is working. We're not going to stray away. We're just going to look to partners like Cisco and others to expand our target market, but stay true to the solution that we've provided in that virtualization environment. You were at VeeamON. You saw the announcements that we're making to support additional workloads and additional environments in the days to come. >> Yeah, I think our ability to evolve and adapt is second to none, and some of that is just based upon the structure of the company. We're still private, we're still pretty much driving our own growth, and I think that allows us to make decisions quickly and very strategically to allow us to go into the areas that I think people instinctively know what is needed to evolve in this space around supporting multi-Cloud, supporting data as an asset, leveraging it as an asset, and I think that's where we've been fueling, both in an engineering perspective, in a capacity to meet with customers and grow, and that's certainly what's going to I think sustain us as we keep going forward. >> All right, gentlemen, I want to give you a final word as to key takeaways you see here from Cisco Live 2018. >> That we will be here for the duration of the time, and our relationship with Cisco will continue to expand, and that we look forward to meeting everyone at the Veeam booth and walking through our product solutions and meeting the Veeam team and answering any questions they may have, but we're thrilled to be part of the Cisco family, and hopefully, again, in the years to come that we'll just continue to expand our relationship. >> And I'll leave you with an African proverb. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. >> Absolutely. Rob Emsley, Carey Stanton, always a pleasure to catch up with you. I'll leave with the final aphorism of my own, which is, never confuse activity with progress. Ben Franklin, so I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more coverage here from Cisco Live 2018. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamOn 2018 brought to you by Veeam. >> We're back at VeeamOn 2018, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my cohost Stu Miniman. Stu, always great working with you. Bruce Shaw is here, he's the Senior Director of Global Alliances and Industry Solutions at NetApp. Great to see you, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, I got to start out with NetApp, I mean, we've followed NetApp for decades, ya know, from the very beginning back when I was at IDC, Stu, you were probably still in your mother's womb. (laughing) But you guys are back in a big way, I mean, for a while there it looked vulnerable. You took advantage of the Dell EMC merger. You're gaining share again, you're growing, stock price is up, there's a spring in your step, what's going on? >> Well, a lot of things are going on. I think we've had a lot of leadership additions to the company, Henri Richard joined and took over as the CSO with the company. We've got a new CMO in Jean English. But more importantly, a lot of the areas that we were late to the market, and candidly we've admitted we were late. We didn't have a good Flash story a couple years ago. We've been very aggressive with Flash over the last 24 to 18 months. We're now the fastest growing Flash storage provider out in the market, and we think we'll exit this year as number one. In fact, we think that's the current course and trajectory. We're very happy with where that's going. The FlexPod partnership with Cisco was great this past year. We had a record year in Converged infrastructure, which was a down market, we picked up about 13 points a share according to IDC, so a lot of the cylinders are starting to fire, but the one that is probably the biggest and the most shocking for folks is three, four years ago, the belief was that cloud was going to kill on-prem storage for companies like NetApp. I think the one thing that they did right ahead of the curve was they embraced the cloud. They've got great partnerships with Google, Amazon, the hyperscalers, and cloud strategy and the business that drives the company there is the fastest part of the company, and Anthony Lye runs that team, and it's doing an amazing job. >> Explain how, and you're absolutely right, many, most, frankly myself at times, felt that way. Explain how cloud is a tailwind and not just a one-way street into the roach motel. >> Oh well, there isn't an enterprise today that isn't thinking about cloud in some way, shape, or form, right? Now, ya have prognosticators on either side saying it's all going to the cloud or something less than that, but the truth is when you look at a strategy like ONTAP and the ability to move your data, whether it's on-prem or to the cloud and manage it through our data fabric story, that's where NetApp really starts coming into their own. I think, again, that's where we've been able to take advantage, and it's not just having it one way or the other or being good just with the hyperscalers or good with the guys that want to be secure because most companies do a hybrid story, and they want to bit of both. >> Well, I think the one thing that I would observe about NetApp, having followed the company for many, many years, which I think gives you an advantage, is NetApp really has always had storage services in software that were largely decoupled from the hardware, and that allowed you to get into cloud early, don't ya think, Stu? >> Yeah, absolutely, and Bruce, we're here at VeeamOn, and their message sounds a lot like that to me, so maybe help explain, we were just talking to Veeam's CMO, when you hear some of the descriptions of storage services, software, multicloud, and everything, NetApp and Veeam sound alike. How are they complementary in, ya know, maybe where do they bump up against each other, yeah? >> Yeah, well, we both compete in the same market, which is storage, so of course, there's areas where we're going to compete with each other, but we are very complementary in terms of the story and the markets that we serve, right? NetApp is incredible strong in the enterprise. Veeam has great commercial channel presence, so from a route to market there's a lot of complementary stuff we do with each other. Price point, in terms of where we hit the market and the things that we go after, we have a lot of opportunity where there's not overlap to help each out to the point they're now, the relationship's evolved over the last four years where we're actually doing OEM of each other's products. We've got our E-Series we just announced yesterday that we're OEMing with these guys, which again is targeted at exactly those markets. The story between the two that we're both at our core not hardware companies, not storage companies, but data management companies really is where this starts to come together and play well. The fact that they're mutually supportive of each other makes for a really strong value proposition for the customer and the channel, especially the guys like the service providers or ya know, hybrid cloud providers, it's a big time story for them. >> So you're growing with, the partnership with Veeam is growing. >> Right. >> Ya got a combination of trends that become tailwinds, but then you've got execution. Can you explain what are those tailwinds, and what's the execution ethos with the partnership? >> We are a channel-only company for all intents and purposes. >> Dave: Oh yeah, I don't know what the number is now, but you've always been very, very high performing. >> Yeah, I know, so we look at businesses that we drive, and channel is at the core of what we do, so when you have a tailwind like, ya know, where we are with Flash and the growth there, the channel partners are making more money, the programs that are coming for them, we're not taking business that they're doing today and pushing it towards the cloud. Again, we're talking about the story that's transitory between the two, so for a lot of the channel providers that are out there getting in the market, that's a very powerful story for them. That it's not a competitive business, we're not going to try to create our own cloud service to take away from them. We want to help them as they migrate between the two. >> All right, Bruce, one of the other areas we're hearing a lot about at this show that I think lines up with NetApp is the analytics and AI, can you maybe talk about how that ties into the products? >> Yeah, I mean, you look at a lot of these markets like AI, like analytics in terms of what companies are doing, it sheds off a tremendous amount of data, right? And that data is at the heart of what they want to analyze and go through, and when they bring those things to market, the goal is how I quickly move it from where I'm capturing it to where I need it, and ONTAP does a really good job of doing that in terms of being able to take the data to where they need it, whether it's at the edge or whether it's back at the core of the company, so that you can actually do the real work with it and gain the insights that drive the business. >> Bruce, what's the resale agreement that you have with Veeam, can you explain that? >> We have Veeam on our price list. Our sales reps can sell Veeam, can be compensated for it, vice versa, they can absolutely hook in and drive away with NetApp, and now that we're getting products like E-Series where their product is embedded in ours, that only strengthens that kind of motion. So for a NetApp sales rep today, if they have an opportunity where Veeam is needed on it as part of the offering, it's absolutely in their wheelhouse to go sell it, and they get the sale level of love and attention from quote and comp standpoint that they would if it was NetApp only products. >> So this is kind of interesting innovation that Veeam, I think, has been out in front of, they, and I dunno how they do it, Stu, but I think Veeam understands the lifetime value of a customer and is willing to make, put sweat equity into a deal as part of a partnership to make it transparent to a partner sales force. >> Yeah absolutely. >> That's innovation in business model. >> Absolutely, we're very proud of our sales force and the work that they're able to do. We view ourselves as kind of the last big enterprise standalone storage company that's out there doing this, and I run strategic alliances, and some partners integrate really well with our sales guys. Others, it's more of a, ya know, it requires more work. To your point, Veeam has done a superb job at identifying how and where they play with our folks and getting together where we go to market together. >> It's interesting, we used to, ya know, several years ago now, ask the question can NetApp remain independent. We've seen all these independent storage companies kind of go away. Used to have this conversation with David Scott at 3PAR all the time, EMC itself wasn't able to maintain it, and then NetApp got to the point where it was almost too big for an acquisition, and although stock price was down, everybody, NetApp was the rumor of MNA more than any company I can think of in the storage business, but now you're seeing sort of antithetical to what most people expected, it's kind of like the cloud we were talking about before, storage companies emerged. Pure was the first one over a billion since NetApp. What are your thoughts, and what's that, I wonder what, you guys must talk in the hallways about that whole, the dynamics of the industry. It seems like it's still a viable business model to be best of breed. >> It's very viable, so I took over running the strategic alliances at the beginning of January, and my dance card's full. I can't believe the number of folks that are calling up wanting to partner. I think we've gotten much more mature in terms of how we view the market and our ability to get strategically with other companies to be successful, and there absolutely is always going to be a place out there for a best of breed story. Customers want the best technology that they can get to handle their business needs, and if we partner with great partners, whether it's Veeam or others to provide that for them, I think the viability of NetApp only gets stronger not weaker. >> It's interesting because now ya got NetApp, Pure, Nutanix, soon to be Veeam, as billion dollar independent pure play companies in the storage business. Isilon couldn't get there, Data Domain couldn't get there, Compellent couldn't get there, 3PAR couldn't get there, Lefthand couldn't get, EqualLogic, I can go down the list. They were never able to reach that escape velocity, and maybe it is cloud, maybe cloud is that weird tailwind for people who can figure out how to take advantage of cloud and hybrid cloud, your thoughts? >> Yeah, I think it is, number one. I think also the companies that you mentioned at various times, and I'm a hardware industry dinosaur, I've been around forever. A lot of those companies you talk about the difficult moment from them was hey, we're a storage company, now we want to add compute or now we want to go into this part of the market that put them at odds with the guys they were partnering with. George, our CEO, has been absolutely maniacal with his vision of our path forward is managing data, period. Whatever that form takes, we don't need to be a compute company, we don't need to be a networking company, we want to be a data company. I think how that then drives the decisions, whether it's partnering with cloud, whether it's going into new markets with HCI, even if it's things about transforming the legacy data center from traditional data center and how it's managed on-prem to something that's all Flash driven and much more efficient and much more programmable than it was in the past, so it's easier to administer, those are the areas that we can go innovate, and as long as we're partnering with the right partners out in the industry, that makes us a very good viable destination for the customer without worrying about well, do we have a compute node, are we in the server business now, are we suddenly in the switch business? Those are things that are not even on our radar. >> Yeah, I mean, you guys are in a unique position from that standpoint. You're very large now, you're the largest independent storage company, so everybody wants to work with you. You don't bump up into these adjacencies, and you can make bets, you can place your chips in areas whereas some of the startups, there's tons of innovation, but it's really hard to hit that escape. The amount of resources that you need, the money you need for promotion, the talent war that's going on out there, the go-to-market challenges, the partner challenges, so you guys are in a pretty good position right now. >> We really are, and I think we've actually done a lot of the restructuring internally to continue that and capitalize on it. Probably the biggest change, which outside the company, most folks wouldn't notice immediately, is that we moved at the beginning of this year to a three distinct business unit structure where we're focusing on three parts of the business to go forward. We've got our cloud business unit, which is driving into, as I said, the hyperscalers under Anthony Lye. We've got cloud data center, which is more of the new technologies like HCI and Converge and object storage technology like StorageGRID, and that's, right now that's an incredibly fast growing business for us. Then, of course, we've got our traditional storage software infrastructure business where we have products like E-Series and modernizing the data center, which is primarily driven with this transition to Flash. You've got three BUs now that are maniacally focused on the different areas of the market where we see here's an immediate opportunity in Flash. Here's a slightly longer opportunity in things like hybrid cloud and HCI and Converge infrastructure and a much longer term bet was how does the cloud really become a piece where we're managing between all of those. It lets us be a lot nimble between it. It's almost like three subbusinesses where we're going to market. >> Yeah, Dave, and actually that aligns perfectly with the research we've been doing for over five years from server stand and true private cloud, you've got the hyperscale, you've got the transformation locally in spanning those two, and then you've got that transition from the traditional. >> Oh, I think it's a sound strategy, and it'll serve us well in the years to come. >> There's obviously a lot of noise about artificial intelligence in the marketplace. You've got some companies trying to position to be the platform for machine intelligence or artificial intelligence, what's NetApp's point of view on that? >> Well certainly, we share some of that, but again, I think at the end of the day for us, it's much more important about fine, wherever I'm capturing that artificial intelligence is not likely the place where I'm going to do a lot of the analytics and work on it, so it really does come down to, ya know, am I moving it up to the cloud to do that work, where am I making my big insights, where am I mining through it, and then how am I relating that back, whether it's at the edge or whether it's at the core data center, and again, we think with ONTAP, with the partners that we're going to market with for AI, for ML, IoT, that's the difference maker for us at the end of the day. It's not that we're just another storage company storing the telemetry data off of a car for AI, we're putting it into a format and a form that's usable quickly, efficiently, real time, where Tesla can go make a decision on the car right now, not days, weeks, months from now. >> All right, Bruce, well hey, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate your time and good luck. >> Enjoyed having me, thank you. >> All right, great. >> Good to see you guys. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching VeeamOn 2018, this is theCUBE.

(big band music) >> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Your file was so big, it might be very useful, but now it is gone. Oh wait, we're not talking about those type of haikus. Happy to welcome to the program the new CEO of HYCU. That's H-Y-C-U. Simon Taylor, the rebranded company, formerly Comtrade, I'm Stu Miniman with Keith Townsend. Simon, great to see you. >> Great to see you as always. >> Yeah so I've corked a quick Google search. Give me some technology things. I believe it's actually like a former V expert, that friend of mine had it in his deep archive, he's got all these things about Windows and the like. So let's start there. We've had you on the program, when it was Comtrade, explain the HYKU, the name and how it fits with the other company, everything like that. >> Absolutely, so a huge shift since the last time we all spoke. As you might remember, Comtrade Software was a data protection, a mondering company, but it was part of a larger organization. We spun it out of Comtrade Group and rebranded as a new company, HYKU. HYKU stands for Hyper Converge Uptime and, really, the way we came up with the name is we were thinking about the fact that we sell data protection for the hyper-converger Enterprise Cloud. More specifically, purposed-filled backup recovery for Nutanix. And when we think about hyper-converger, what are we really doing? We're taking enormous amounts of data and we're simplifying it down to a nice, small elegant package, much like the Japanese poem, haiku. So we leveraged that name, haiku, and then create HYCU, Hyper-converged Up-time. >> Yeah and if you kept the Enterprise Cloud and everything like that, it would've been a much longer word. (laughing) >> Absolutely right. >> Alright, but let's speak to, Comtrade and now HYCU's been working with Nutanix for a lot, tell us what you're hearing from your customers, what's shaping the market, what's it like being in this ecosystem? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we found it to be absolutely wonderful. HYCU, Inc. now, is really the world's only purpose-built backup recovery product for Nutanix. We've got about 350 employees in five different countries. And we launched about eight months ago, our very own backup and recovery product for Nutanix. When we thought about what kind of product we wanted to build as our own stand-alone company, we knew it had to be in hyper-converged, we knew that Nutanix was the industry leader and we'd had so much respect for Nutanix and for their leadership for so many years, as you remember. We had brought the monitoring scompact for Nutanix to market about three years ago, and we thought our real legacy has been in the data protection space. We've been working with companies all across the world for 25 years, from an engineering perspective, supporting the development of blue-chip data protection products, and we thought what better than to build our own back-up recovery product? And if we're going to do that, we should do it for the industry leader in hyperconvergion Enterprise Cloud which is Nutanix. So when we thought about what it would take to build an HCI backup and recovery product, we said, you know what, we don't want to be the platform. Nutanix, in our opinion, is the platform. And they've got snapshots and cloning and replication built in to their product. So we said, rather than creating another beast, another platform, another silo, let's leverage the elegance of Nutanix and let's add to it application awareness, let's add to it all of the various different cataloging, and application support that would be required to actually provide a complete data protection solution to Nutanix customers. It's been wonderful, and in just eight months, we're now in 22 countries around the world. >> So, 350 people, this is a crowded space. There's a lot of start-ups, there's a lot of established companies, why Nutanix? The focus is for such a large company, what's the total addressable market for the product, and what's the attraction amongst Nutanix customers? >> Those are great questions, Keith. And absolutely, I think this is the question on everybody's mind, how big can Nutanix really get? In our eyes, you can guess the correlarity for us. We believe where Nutanix are where VMware were a decade ago, and that they're going to keep going. I think we've heard it from the Nutanix Executive Team, you know, they want to be a three billion dollar company, et cetera, and I think they're going to hit it. I think they're going to absolutely just grow and grow and grow and really be the platform of the future. So from our perspective, this is the most crowded space in technology and a very difficult place to penetrate. I would certainly not recommend anyone building a sort of plain vanilla backup solution and saying, "Hey, here we are." I just don't think it will work. But when you look at Nutanix, and you look at the evolution of data protection, starting with Unex, there was a solution for that, Windows, there was a very relevant solution for that, virtualization, another backup and recovery product. Now we're in Cloud and Enterprise Cloud, and there's a couple of new vendors that have appeared on the market, and they're all sort of saying the same thing, which is it's all about the application, it's all about integration, and gosh, it's got to be very usable. It's got to be Next-Gen and it's got to be focused on the consumer. It's got to be something that people want to use, that really has that simplicity and that elegance. The core difference is that, unlike some of the other HCI backup vendors, we've focused almost entirely on building it for Nutanix, which means that we can leverage the power of their platform and make our customers more successful. In terms of total adjustable market, what we wanted to do was say to customers, "You only should have one data protection solution "for your environment." So what we did is we added a V80P integration, so you can actually backup and recover not only Nutanix data but all of your Legacy VMware data as well through HYCU, okay? But we only market it to Nutanix customers, so what that enables us to do is to provide unified data protection solutions for Nutanix customers which helps them to more quickly migrate customers and workloads to new Nutanix bosses. >> So as far as that support for Legacy workloads, we talked to quite a few Nutanix customers and they're in a mixed environment where a percentage of the workload's on Nutanix, a percentage of the workload's are outside of Nutanix, so does that support, extend not only-- >> Both. >> From the virtual machines, but physical machines outside of the Nutanix scope? >> Sure, so we're at V3.0 right now. We've been out for about eight months. In our latest release we've added VSX supports, you can backup all of your Legacy infrastructure. We are adding physical and Q4 this year as well. So you're really looking at a comprehensive Enterprise-ready HCI Enterprise Cloud solution that leverages the power of Nutanix to make their customers more successful than ever before. >> Okay, great, so VMware and HV today, Bare Metal coming to the future. Let's talk about that Cloud piece bit. Nutanix partnerships in putting their environment into AWS, Microsoft, of course, Google, really, so all the backup players are talking about how they fit in this multi-Cloud world, so how does HYCU fit? >> Yeah. You know what we did, we actually repurposed HYCU, and we launched our own Google Cloud services backup product. It's in the Google Cloud Services Store, you can download it and you can actually leverage that as well. But I see that as the precursor. I think we, on the HYCU team, all see that as the precursor to Zy. We love what Nutanix is doing with Google on Zy. We think that's going to be a real game changer for them. And what we wanted to make sure is that we really understood the concepts behind it so that when they start launching workloads on Zy, we're right there, ready with Zy integration. >> So give us some hero numbers. What are some of the big features that you guys offer Nutanix customers that other data protection companies can't do? >> Sure. So one of the key things, Keith, is that from a Nutanix perspective, we actually integrate right at the storage level, so we're not going at the hypervisor level, and what that means is that we avoid something called VM-stung. So when we think about customers who are trying to recover their data, in a traditional hypervisor environment where you're backing up at the hypervisor level, you're going to see that VM-stung, you're going to see things freeze up a little bit when you're doing the recovery. By backing up and recovering directly from the storage level, we avoid that entire process. The second thing that we've done is we've actually patented application awareness. Now this is great thing, we leveraged it in the monitoring tools, Stu's going to remember that, and we brought that back in a totally new form for the data protection. What we do is we actually look inside the virtual machines, we can see what applications are there, we reconstruct them ourselves, and that enables self-service recovery on the part of the Nutanix Abna. So now when Nutanix Abna can say I want to restore a sequel, I want to restore exchange, I want to get an email back, they can do all of that themselves right from the solution. >> Alright, Simon, last thing I want to cover is what feedback are you hearing from the show here? What are the customers excited about? You've been to quite a few of these also, what's your wrap-up of the show? >> I think this is by far the most successful Nutanix event ever, and I think it's been a wonderful scale-up approach for everyone here. I think we're starting to see a lot more in the Federal space, certainly, we're starting to see a lot more, for both Nutanix and HYCU, kind of across the larger enterprises, and I think what people are starting to see is that they can actually move entire environments to Nutanix. And I think more and more workloads are shifting faster than ever before and these guys have just really found scale. That's been a terrific thing to see and obviously fantastic for our business as well. >> Alright. Simon Taylor, CEO of HYCU, pleasure to catch up with you as always. We'll be back with lots more programming here from Nutanix .NEXT 2018 for Keith Townsend, Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (light electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube. Covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC, and it's ecosystem partners. (light music) >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everybody, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host Keith Townsend. Craig Nunes is here, he's the CMO of Datrium. >> Yeah. >> Dave: Long time CUBE's alum, it's great to see you again. >> Great to be back, awesome. >> Dave: And James Stock is a Datrium customer, he's the Vice President of IT at Grow Financial. James, welcome, first time on theCUBE, looking good man. >> It is, yes, thank you very much. >> All right, Craig, Datrium-- >> Yeah. >> You guys are smoking hot, changing the storage world give us the quick update, we'll get into it. >> Look, we are filling a huge gap, bigger, I think, than we had imagined. Because, a lot of, it's no secret, the array market is in decline. And Hyper Converged has tried to reinvent that market. And it has to a degree on the low end, BDI, that kind of stuff. But data centers need an answer that scales. They need an answer that's got resilience. And it turns out, after all these years, back up is still a problem. Figuring out the cloud is still a problem. And so we put together a system that really takes a tier one approach to HCI, a full on scale out back up system and a cloud DR approach built into one convert system. And customers love it. From cloud to back up to performance in primaries, it's been awesome reception. >> Well, let's see if they really love it, I guess. So James, first of all, so let's start with Grow Financial, your role, you heard the pitch, and then we'll get into how it your applying it to new business. But, tell us about your company. >> So we started in 1955 in a broom closet in McDowell Air Force bases headquarters, there in Tampa. And over the years, we've grown. We're now a $2.4 billion in assets. We have over 200,000 members, and we do lending throughout the south eastern United States. Offices in Tampa, and in South Carolina. >> So in your role, head of IT-- >> Basically, what I tell people, is that if it plugs in, I'm responsible for it. >> (laughs) okay. All right, so, take us through the Datrium project of before and after, what was the motivation? >> So, really, the issue that we were running into is that our existing storage solution, which was the Dell SE, was our trays were running end of life, and if we only had a couple of them, it probably wouldn't have been a problem. We might not of even entertained it, but we had probably two dozen. So, we started looking around and said, "all right, "well, what does it cost to replace what we've got? "and what else is on the market?". And we started to find out that just replacing what we had with like, was going to cost almost 200 grand more than what our full Datrium replacement cost. So, it started making financial sense, right away. But, we met up with Datrium probably, might've been summer of 2016, when they were on version one. And it looked good, you could see the promise, the whole idea of having that back in storage, that was really intriguing, because none of the other players had anything like that at the time. And we said, "All right, we're not ready." And then when they came back out in May of last year, whoa, the difference in what they've done in such a short period of time is what really kind of blew us away. >> Okay, but, we're here at Dell Technologies World, where you guys are a partner of Dells, right? So you're using Dell servers and right? >> James: Yep. >> That's part of the deal here, so, they let you in. >> They let us in, in fact, our compute nodes, it's no secret, our Dell branded compute nodes, and in fact we have partnered with Dell in one of their data centers to set a world record IO mark on Dell here, just to prove a lot of the performance specs that we've shared in the market, proved it out. And we've proved it out on Dell here. >> Cool, so James, talk to me a little bit about your perception of Olby converge. Because I've talked to Craig about Olby convergence versus Hyper convergence versus Converge infrastructure, at the end of the day, you just want a reliable, fast system, however, what about the Olby convergence story drew you today? >> So, I didn't have to replace any of the nodes I had, if I really didn't have, if I wanted too. So I've got CISCO nodes around my call center, I've got Dell nodes, I've got Datrium nodes now. But at the time, it wouldn't have mattered. I could've just, like, in my CISCO environment, I actually had to add a raid controller to the UCS box and then I could throw any solid state drives that I wanted into the device. So that was where it really got compelling, and I'm like wait a minute, so you're telling me, I don't have to buy enterprise flash drives, and stick these into each of my servers. I could just go down to Best Buy, or wherever local, grab something off the shelf, and throw it in there, as long as the server supported it? And, okay, where do I sign up? >> So we've heard that story, and one of the things that some of the hyper converge infrastructure players say, you know what, we could do that, but it's almost impossible to support. Because of firmware issues, et cetera, et cetera. Did you guys run into any of those issues? >> Nope, that's been the greatest thing. When we first started to do our reference calls, it was like everybody I talked to, I said, well, where's the catch? >> Keith: Right. Because that really seemed too good to be true. And customer after customer that I called, they said, "we ran into it with our back ups." But they finished a third of the time faster. I said, "how is that even possible?" and, so we didn't believe it either. We actually had to go back and check because some of our backup jobs finished so fast, we thought it was an error or something like that. They were fine, it was just, you're backing up from flash now, instead of backing up from old spinning discs. >> Okay, so you put the system in, talk about the business impact. It sounds like there was some residual impacts from the initial motivation? >> Right, right, so from the business impact, that's a tough story to sell. Because, really, where we saw it, it was on the backend. And that was the way our systems were before, there really wasn't a huge deal of impact in the business with our old system, until it came back to back up times. Now, where I will say that we still have reductions is, if I have to reboot a server today, our call center application, buyers are putting it on Datrium, it took anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes for that to boot up. Well, 15 to 20 minutes while our call centers down, is like an eternity. Now, that time's down to about five to seven minutes. So, like overnight, you've more than halfed that time. And the same thing with web servers, or anything else that would be member facing, those times have been greatly reduced. So, if I do have to reboot something, because everybody knows it happens, it's sped up the process tremendously for us. >> And what's the secret sauce here? We're talking architecture, just sort of modern approach? Software design? >> So that the secret sauce, if you will, is this split design that runs your workloads. Especially read intensive workloads, on flash, on the host with powerful software, Datrium software. All of your durable data does not live on those hosts, those hosts are not stay full, they can fail at any time, and you still have data availability. So you've got that bullet proof availability, and on the back end, your data's kept secure, it is shared so we don't have any network traffic between hosts, your network doesn't blow up when you install, like it does with a hyper converged approach. And that split provisioning, that split architecture is the breakthrough, and that's why we talk about beyond HCI, we took a good step there. The scale line attributes, VIUM centric admin, but then we really built in tier one capabilities, full on backup, and of course, we haven't talked about it, but access to AWS re-offset backups. >> So, James, let's talk about day two operations. What are the advantages of hyper converged? There's this idea of like I'm one pane of glass. Like, firmware updates, I can free line my operations. Do you guys see similar advantages, day two, versus your previous infrastructures? >> Yeah, I mean, one of the things that saves us a lot of times now, is the fact that there's just one big pool of data out there, instead of having to provision lunds, we were setting up our exchange conversion, so we're building out four or five servers for that. Well, normally, that'd be about a two hour process, not that we were sitting there waiting the whole time, but, all right, we'll carve out some space in this one, twiddle your thumbs, go do something else. Come back, and maybe they'll be done. Well, now, that's like an instant process. So those sort of things are like, "wow, you know what, "I'm saving tons of time", just in admin experiences. In terms of pane of glass, it is a single pane of glass. One of the cool things that we've run into is every now and then, of course, we've got to do our disaster recovery testing, we're a financial institution. Well, Datrium's approach is really unique, and a problem that we used to have, is if I failed over to our DR facility, well, now I've got to bring that data back. Because if you fail in over, it's not a problem, you've already seated that data. Well, it doesn't work the other way around. It does with Datrium. So with Datrium, when I go to bring that data back, it's now doing a differential copy back, so I'm not sitting there for days and days and days, waiting to finish my DR testing anymore. So, there's just so many different benefits that have just been great for us. >> I mean, that's huge, because a lot of times, organizations, they can't test DR's, it's too risky, or they just don't have time, and even on the resources. >> James: Right. >> Did you have that problem beforehand? Or are you guys-- >> Well, yeah, because what you would run into is that it took so much to do it before, that I had to run my guys ragged for two or three weeks. I'm like, "All right, stay up overnight, make sure "it all copies" and then once it's copied, okay bring it back up. So, I mean, yeah, that was a challenge before that's not a problem anymore. >> Burning the team out, right. And or missing your window. >> Well, and because of the way that it's architected with the production groups, I no longer need to use a third party recovery tools to do the transitions back and forth. I can do that, natively, inside their application. >> I would also like to ask practitioners, if you had to mull it again, what would you do over. And it sounds like nothing, or what kind of advice would you give to your peers embarking on a similar journey? >> Do all of your reference calls. See it for yourself, I mean, I take quite a number of reference calls because people are in the same boat I was. Is it true, does it really work the way that you say it does? Yeah, it does. I'll screen share with them, if they want to see our numbers, I'll show them. >> All right, last word, what are we looking for? >> What are we looking for? >> Dave: Looking forward. >> So you're going to see us double down on the work we just went into market. Our DVX 4.0 software which comes with that cloud DVX, cloud based capability. And take that in to full on disaster recovery, orchestration. And not in the too distant future, you'll get the whole run down, so stay tuned. >> Awesome, Craig, thanks for coming on. James, pleasure meeting you. >> Likewise, thank you. >> Good luck with everything. Thanks for hanging out with me. >> Always. >> All right, Keith, good job, good questions. All right, keep it right there everybody, we will be back with our next guest, right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE live, from Dell Technologies World 2018. We'll be right back. (light music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Barcelona, Spain, it's the CUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and the CUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live here in Barcelona, Spain, this is the CUBE's exclusive coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Europe, I'm John Furrier, and my co-host Stuart Miniman, Analyst at Wikibon.com. Our next guest is Shaun Coulson, who's the Vice President of Storage for IBM Europe. He is the one on the ground, leading the team for IBM and the Cisco relationship. Driving the storage, which is driving the cloud, and servers and everything else. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you, and welcome to Barcelona. >> Thank you very much, great to have you. Want to get, you're close to the front lines, driving all the business for IBM storage. Congratulations, you had a great year. How's business going in Europe, what's the scene like here? Give a little color, and what's goin' on in Europe. >> Okay, yeah. 2017 was a bumpy year for IBM storage, across the board, across all, both our software and our hardware portfolios, but also our go-to-market with our partners as well, and Cisco's clearly one of those partners. We're in the setup mode for 2018. My worldwide boss would probably say, "We're already setup, Shaun, and you're behind, because it's nearly the end of January." So, it's a vibrant time. Ginni Rometty, mentioned storage specifically in her Address the Nation and the 2017 results and that's partly down to the work that we did in Europe. So, I'm pretty proud of where we're at right now and what we've done. >> Wow, good re-tooling of the product over the years, and now, sales are up, what's the driver of the business right now? We here Cloud, we here On-Premises, Private Cloud, True Private Cloud, as we keep on reports. Certainly Hybrid is there, what's the key customer success driver that you guys are having? >> I think the key success is really, you're correct, everybody's talking about Cloud. Mainly, the main driver in my view, is how do they prepare for Cloud? And that's a Hybrid solution, and, with that, you've also then got the On-Prem. The refresh, the technology Transform and Modernize, is a massive program for us and our customers right now. I was in the Nordics, just before Christmas, and I went to one of the big financial institutions, and they have a Cisco/IMB VersaStack solution there, and I said to them, what was they main reason you chose that, and why did you go with IBM, 'cause, they weren't an IBM customer before, so it was a big win-back account for us. And he was about reduction of risk, reduction of cost, and allowing me to transfer some of my operational skills to new work-loads and prepare myself for the cloud. And I think that message has been driven pretty hard by all our customer sales. >> The refresh is interesting, I didn't look at that angle, but, you can see the Digital Transformation story that we've been talking on the Cube for multiple years, playing out because people now see no perimeter with their networks, they're seeing real-time demands from applications. Now IOT. They had to modernize, right, I mean, this is the era of (laughs) not just PO's slappin' down storage, back-room, stack em' rack 'em, it's a new storage paradigm. >> I don't think I've ever been in the era where I sat by the fax machine and the orders come in, but, maybe one day >> What's a fax machine, what's a fax machine again? >> maybe one day (laughing) >> Ask a millennial, they don't even know how to use a fax machine. >> So coming back to this discussion in the Nordics, they really talked about the technology of Flash, the UCS server stacking and the network from Cisco how did that allow them to move some of their resource, reduce on their cost, and it was all around, every month they do net software patches from Microsoft. They used to have a team of 8 people that would take up to 5 working days, fully, to transform that. That, with the introduction of the system the UCS and the Flash, has gone from a 8 team to 2 team and it's done in 2 days. That's a massive reduction in cost but at the same time allowing them to move to that net-new. >> Shaun, bring us in to customers a little bit, 'cause, we've been tracking Converge since that wave started, a lot of it was just organizationally getting set because, I have a server refresh, I have the storage refresh, how do I get budgets, who owns it, but it's that simplicity that you mention, which is you know, we know if I can put it all together, you're talking the networking team. The networking team often doesn't update their code. They put it in, saying like, okay, it's all working, don't breathe on it, but when I go to Converge, really, it makes it easier for me to refresh, with security top of mind for almost every customer that I talk to, they need to stay more up-to-date and they need to, what we have said at Wikibon is, you need to be able to shift to platforms and partners to be able to take some of that burden off, I can't have 6 months of testing every time I need to roll something out, so, where are the customers in Europe, how are they doing along that journey, organizational dynamics you can share. >> I go to a Entertainment customer in the UK. They've taken, they integrated Stack and their deployment of systems out into the field has reduced by 90%. That is a real benefit, and then, we come back to that, how do you maintain, how do you drive, there's one single point, you can drive it through. It's done, it's moved on and I think there is a huge opportunity of customers starting to look at that simplicity because, that's the transformation that's the, I think for a long time this industry has, and the storage business has tried to make things complex. Because that's part of the art of where we've looked to sell, you know, "It's hard, it's not easy guys, therefore, you need us" and I think there's a massive switch away to that simplified model. >> How do customers think of their data center in the context of Cloud in the industry there's been all this argument, what is Private Cloud? Virtualization? I talk to most customers, they have a cloud strategy and their doing Saas, their doing some Public Cloud, they think about their own data center, they don't get caught over the terms, but, I'm curious how they define it, how they do it do they have initiatives on codifying what they do? >> I think any large customer or small customer would be crazy not to have a cloud strategy some way, shape, or form and I think that has been going on for the last 2 to 3 years with all our major customers. Some are further down the track where everything is going to be Cloud on all their systems, especially the newer, more agile customers but there's also a lot of customers that, for security reasons, financial regulation reasons, are never going to be that far down the track on Cloud, so, I think it's a mixed bag. I think, while their is that transformation and that journey, there's opportunity for everybody and I think that's the bit that we see, where we have the skill set to help our customers going forward. >> I'm curious, usually when I come talk to a European audience, the governance is, a major sticking point has been one of the headwinds against moving to public cloud, we see the big public cloud players putting data centers in every country that they can, but is it still kind of challenge today? >> I think there will always be that concern from the regulatory authorities. And I think if you take the first uptake in Europe of what customers that really moved to the cloud. Then I would say it was the more commercial, mid-size customers that saw the attraction, especially the ability to have the variable cost rate that they can associate with the cloud. But, I think there are also parts of the larger government organizations that are now looking at what applications what workloads they can actually put on the cloud, where there is no regulatory governance to be followed. So, I think it's a bit of both. >> Shaun, talk about the European differences by country, because we've been covering the GDPR pretty hard, that deadline's coming up, that's going to have an impact on storage, obviously, and then also, networking, IP addresses can determine which country you're from, 'cause now each country will have their own little nuances. What is the impact to your job and as you execute your mission what does it mean for the customer? Because, a lot of people don't just live in one country, or work in one country. They span multiple regions. >> And you think of it, most international customers have offices in probably 20 or 30 of the countries that we cover in Europe. I think you can have a view from a technology point of view that some people will be early adopters and some people will be slower adopters. And what you can do, and what is very prevalent in the European marketplace is taking those learning lessons from the early adopters, finessing them, and then driving them out to the other ones, so, I would say for example, the Nordics, again, are probably an early adopter of a lot of the new technologies. They're very happy to try and drive and yet, some of the more traditional ones will wait and see and then think it through a little bit more carefully. But that's the beauty of the nature of Europe. >> What's the big change that you've seen over the past couple years? Obviously, software's at the center of it. Any observations that you can share that's different in the market for buyers? >> I think from a technology point of view, the indoctrination of Flash and there I say the commoditization of Flash has been prolific over the last 18 months. From the price point that it initially started to where we are today has meant that it has become more and more accessible for a lot more of the customer sets that we work with. And especially when you look at performance price point, it starts to become a no-brainer. I'm not sure, when we look at some of the stats in 4th quarter, we actually sold more core Flash modules than we did revenue-wise on traditional SSDs. Which is a kind of indication of where we've gone with the price performance. >> Any trends and patterns that you've seen with buyers that you can, that you see happening, what's the big takeaway? >> I think the big takeaway is storage is alive and kicking. The cloud is formed on the use of data. The use of data means you got to have good storage systems to go and drive that. And I think that is a major theme that runs through all our customer sets. >> And that's trying the modernization, big time. >> Shaun, are there any verticals that you're finding that are leading the charge in some of this transformation of data, leveraging data more than others. >> I think a lot of the smaller organizations which have more agility, they're actually leading in terms of willing to put their first foot forward, but, I think what happens is, then, once that is proven, then the larger organizations come in and work it, so, you're always going to have the big Toco, media companies that are always at forefront of technology. You'll also have the financial organizations that are looking at, where Cloud's good, where's not, block change, GDPR that we talked about earlier, and I think that is traditionally IBM's strength in those kind of marketplaces. >> Shaun, thanks for coming on the Cube, really appreciate the commentary and insight to Europe, congratulations-- >> Thank you. >> on your sales. Shaun Coulson is the Vice President of IBM Europe Storage. This is the Cube breaking down the European show for Cisco Live 2018, Europe, I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more after this short break.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Welcome back, everyone, to this special Cube conversation. I'm John Furrier in the Cube's Palo Alto Studios. My next guest is Dr. Tom Bradicich, he's a friend of the Cube, works at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, heads up the IOT. He's general manager and vice president of servers, converged edge, IOT systems. But we're here to talk about, not so much HPE but really that work that Tom's done in a topic called First Mover, a book that he's writing. It hasn't come out yet, so we'll get an early preview of what it's like to create a category innovation and how to use process to your advantage, not make it your enemy. (chuckles) How to use creativity and how to motivate people and how to sell it through organizations, whether it's venture capitalists or managers. Tom, you've got great experience, thanks for spending time to come into the studio. >> Great to be here, thanks for having me and I'm happy to have this discussion. >> If you go back to the Cube videos, folks watching that know you, seen all the videos at HPE Discover or HP Discover, back in the day, you had a great career. You were an engineer, built the first notebook computer with IBM, you've done a lot of groundbreaking things and I like the topic of your book, First Mover, 'cause it speaks to your mindset. Entrepreneurial, innovative, breaking through walls, you probably got a lot of scar tissue. So, I want to talk about that. Because this is what the opportunity many entrepreneurs have as you know, in the Cube, we really believe that a renaissance in software development is coming. It's so obvious, open source is growing at a extraordinary pace, reuse of code. >> Right. >> You got IOT. >> You're involved in, you got crypto currency, block chain, all these new waves are coming all at once. >> Yes. >> I wish I was 22 again. >> Because this is a great opportunity to innovate. But this improving things, what are some of those things? Let's jump in, what do you see as the playbook? What have you learned and what can you share? >> Well, sure, I've been blessed, I've had a career where I've been able to do a lot of innovation but also, I like to separate the notion of innovation from differentiation. Now see, it's possible to be innovated and not different. Like it's possible for you and I to have the same new suit. It's new, it's innovative, but it's not different. And differentiation is really where one can have a first mover advantage because differentiation by definition is new, is innovation. But it's not always the other way around. So, I always tell my teams and I always focus on, how can we be two things, both different and better. It's possible also to be different and not as good. You can have the highest failure rate in the industry, you're different but that's not good. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> So, the concept here is how do you be different, not just new and innovative but how to be different and how do you be good. And I've actually faced three risks in mostly the big corporate culture that we've had to innovation. And the first risk is, of course, the obvious one, will customers buy it, that's called market risk. Is it something that's good enough to be purchased at a profit? The second risk is, can it be manufactured at quality and at a rate of consumption. The third risk is your own company, does the company have what it takes, actually, to take on the risk of a brand new product category, not just a new product. But a new category of products that, by definition, have never been done before. And when one can do that, when one can figure that out, and I've had some significant experience with this, you can catapult your careers, you can catapult your company and your customers to new levels because you enjoy the benefits of the first mover. That's the name of the book, The First Mover. >> Well, I'm looking forward to seeing it. But I want to ask, this is super important because a lot of people are really good at something and they run hard, they break through a wall but might have missed something. So, you kind of bring up this holistic picture. What are some of the things that folks should focus in on? Say I have a breakthrough idea, I have a prototype I've been running, it's in market, I think it's the best thing since sliced bread, I'm pushing it hard, people are just going to lap this up, this is going to be great, I know it's innovative but no one else knows it. >> Right, right, yeah. >> What do I do? >> What's the process, what do you recommend? >> Well, what I like to do is portion the benefits into two categories. There's supply side benefits that's to your company. Why is this good for your company to do this? And then there are demand side benefits. Meaning, why is it good for the customer? Most people tend to focus mostly on the demand side. Oh, it's solves this problem and the customers will love it and that's important and I would call that a necessary but not a sufficient condition. The other condition is why is this good for your company? And many times, when it's a brand new product category, those inside a company aren't quite in tune with why it's good for the customer. Because, again, it's a new thing, it's a new product category. Why is an automobile better than a horse and buggy, right? Why is a laptop computer better than a desktop computer? These are the ideas where it may be intuitive, it may be instructive to talk about that but when you can get a business model first and start with that, well, the reason is, we can enjoy this margin. The reason is, we can enjoy this particular first mover advantage, the halo effect, the reputation of being the leader. The reason is because we can penetrate a new market. The reason is we can now overcome a falling revenue in a shrinking tam. Now we can accelerate in another tam, perhaps, as well. So, by coming up with both the demand side and the supply side, you have a better case to go forward for support and funding inside a big corporation. >> There's always product market fit, I hear the buzzwords, I got to get the cashflow positive, break even. There's always a motivating force to get something done. How should someone organize the order of their operations to get something done, to the market, if it's an innovative, groundbreaking, differentiating? Because a lot of the big challenge is, some people call it landing span, I heard that buzzword too but you get a champion inside a company and that champion embraces it and most people think, oh man, I got a customer. But then that person has to sell it through and then it has to be operationalized, meaning, people got to get used to it. These are really challenges. >> They are, yes. >> What is your view of how an entrepreneur or a business executive or practitioner to get through that? >> Well, you have to get people on your side and it's really important. Somebody's got to believe in, either, you not even understanding what you're proposing but they'd say, well, you have a track record. For some reason, I believe what you're saying. And then, secondly, getting customers. So, I have personally never done anything major without a customer that I call an inspiration customer. That's a name I just made up. So, a customer, by definition, is an end user that will buy something from you, that's the definition of a customer. And an inspiration customer is one that will help you that is okay with seeing your dirty laundry, okay with mistakes you might make because they see the value in it and they also see the value in them being a first mover. And I like to tell my team, we want to be a first mover and a trendsetter, so our customers can also be trendsetters in their business as well. So therefore, by getting that customer support, and that's in the form of POCs or in trials or in just customer testimony, combine that now with a second dimension called the analyst community, which you're team resides in as well, also saying well, I think this is good as well, brings a lot credibility because there's a saying, a verse in the bible that a prophet is not without honor except in his own home town. Now, if you think about that, a lot of times, you're own company that you reside in has a lower point of view because it's very consumed with, indeed, what is next and doing the right thing, by the way. I have to make this quarter, right. We have to protect the brand. We have to keep the cashflow coming in. These are all important things, so how do you get someone to focus on that? Many times, it's not you anymore, it's outside. And I call that the second C. The first C is internal, the company. The second C is your customers and the community. That also could include, by the way, analysts, the media, other experts, consultants, those type of Cs around there. Now the third C is the competition. This is a little bit controversial. What happens when the idea is now exploited by the competition first; sometimes that is a motivator for a company to jump on it as well and make the market. But, again, if you follow the competition, you're not the first mover, you don't enjoy the benefits of first mover advantage. Higher margin, the halo effect of being the innovators and also, learning, that's an important one. When you're a first mover, you're out there learning so that you can respond to the second generation in a better way. >> I like the notion of differentiation and innovation as two different variables. >> Yes. >> Because it's super important. You can be different and not innovative. You can be innovative and not different. Again, it's all contextual but I want to get back to the pioneering of the first movers. So, statistically speaking, a lot of the best entrepreneurs are first movers and they're often "misunderstood", you hear that all the time. >> Yes. >> Or being a visionary is the difference being 10 years in the future versus an hour, can make the difference between success. (chuckles) We are crazy on one end and you're brilliant on the other because the time to value catches up with that profit, if you will. So the question is that, how does first movers continue to win 'cause I've seen situations where first movers come in, get a position and win and stay, keep the lead. Other times, first movers come in, set the market up, create all the attention and then have arrows on their back. >> And a second mover enjoys the benefit. >> Yeah, so the second mover comes in, bigger scale, so this competition, competitive strategy overlaid on this. Which even complicates it even further. >> Indeed, yes. >> So, your thoughts on that. >> Yes, indeed. Well, one way to look at this is the way to move forward is again, when you can get some momentum that's not you. That's the number one as a... >> John: Market growth, number of subscribers, doing the internet as a trend. >> Yes. >> Mobile users. >> Yes. >> And a third party consultant who's highly respected, a greaser, an analyst. I ran into an analyst recently in a coffee shop who agreed with some of this first mover work we're doing and converged edge systems, which is a new class of products as well. But it's really important that you can't be discouraged, let me point this out. What I tell my team, and I tell students, I lecture at universities and I've been edge professor, those younger in their career, is if you cast and vision and you have an idea and nobody gets it, don't be discouraged, that's a good sign. That's sounds a little funny. Why is it a good sign? Because if everybody gets it right away, it's likely not that novel, it's likely rather ordinary, it's likely been thought of before as well. So, by the very nature and definition that the average person might think it's discouraging. Oh, nobody understands me, nobody gets this idea, should be an encouragement, and a motivation. Now the risk here, is people not getting it is also a sign of a stupid idea. So, usually, when people don't get it, it's either, really not good. >> Or really good. >> Or really amazing that, eventually, they'll come around to it. I had a boss in one of my career opportunities told me to stop working on a product. I don't want to give too much detail, but he literally told me that. And I said, I didn't want to be insubordinate to a boss, we have them and I said, can I please just keep working on it, okay, don't let it interfere with the other stuff. Dah, dah, dah. Today that market is a nine billion dollar market as well. >> Of that product that you-- >> Of that very product that I was told by a very astute person, one of my colleagues, my bosses, that I don't see the future in this, let's not do this, you know, as well. But, being able to have a second thing. So, number one is don't be discouraged by people not getting it. By definition, that's supposed to happen. >> Yeah. >> When you have new-- >> Good point, you want to finish that? >> I just want to get-- >> Get one more thing. >> If I may add a second one. And as you're moving forward with this as well is seek out and find those who do agree with you and stick with them very, very closely. And I have, I can say a couple of names. There's one, we've created this new product class called Converge Edge Systems. Alan Andriole is senior vice president at HP. >> Cube alumni. >> And he's a Cube alumni. >> Super smart. And I'm pointing him out because he has publicly taken on this idea that this product category can really, really work and he's worked-- >> John: Cloud Nine? >> Oh, the converge edge system called Edgeline. >> Okay, got it. >> The Edgeline product brand. >> You know it as well. So therefore, when you find someone who had authority-- >> Eagles fly together, you want to get a good peer group. >> Absolutely. >> Here's a question for you. >> One of my experiences, and I want to just get your reaction and add on to it, your thoughts is, most entrepreneurs or pioneers are misunderstood, so I agree, don't be discouraged, but also, keep validating and be a data seeker, get the data. But a lot of the times, just getting something in the market or getting it going creates movement and inertia to get rolling and sometimes the original idea is actually the big idea turns into it as you get more data. An example is like Air B&B wasn't... What it is, it was basically air mattresses and selling cereal. >> Yes, yes. >> That was the original story, right. And then it turned into, but conceptually, it was the same thing, so you don't have to be 100% right on the semantics. >> It's well known that most startups don't end up being successful with the product they start with. That's well known fact but that's true also in large companies with a product idea as well. So, you have to have this interesting balance. It's very interesting as I've thought about this in study. You have to have deep philosophical and conviction of principles. And here's why: If you don't, you will be swayed by everybody's opinion and you'll never get anything done because oh, well, that's a good idea, maybe I should do this well, that's a good idea, maybe I should do this. Now, I'm not saying that's bad to listen to others but if you don't have a grounding of principles. Example, we established the seven principles of the IOT over two years ago, and we've held on to them and created the success we have based on those principles. Now that's not to say we didn't modify them a little bit but the point is, we were convicted with something and when somebody would come up with a counter to it, we had a way to defend our convictions, if you will, in internal debates and external debates as well. And then, secondly, you got to be also okay with being the sole inhabitant of that field of discourse. Being a visionary can be a very lonely job because of that, right. And, again, it's because you are and your team is, it's not always a lone person right, the team is actually creating something that literally nobody's ever seen before. Nobody understand before. >> What process do you wrap around this? Because Dave Alonzo and I always talk about this on the Cube and after the Cube is that the process has to be your friend, not your enemy. It has to work for you. >> I always say that, yeah. >> Also says that as well on Amazon. But also Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet's partner always says I'm not a big fan of master plans, meaning, because become a slave to the plan rather than the opportunity. >> Yep, yep. >> So these are process kind of things, right. So how does an innovator that's a first mover that wants to create a category, 'cause categories killers or category creators are huge opportunities financially. So they create a lot of value wealth and opportunity. What process is best? Is there a view, is it conditional on certain things? What's your thoughts on... >> Well, let me say, I'm going to give you a big company or a medium size company context, not a startup, I think they're distinctly different. I have limited experience with a startup but I've had significant experience with bigger, medium and large, now, companies as well. You can't try to change the system because now you have two variables. You got this new product that nobody's ever heard of and now you're trying to change the whole system. Now, again, this is just advice for bigger companies. So be careful how many things you want to change, how many things you want to stop. So you want to take this new thing and align it with existing processes and existing core competencies as much as you can, even though it's new, it has to have some alignment; I'll give you an example. When we built the converged edge systems, the Edgeline brand, we aligned it with compute. It's not only compute, but we aligned it with compute, why? Because HPE or HP, at the time, was and is and now, number one in compute when it comes to data center. Compute systems when it comes to high performance computing and mission critical, right. So therefore, that was easy to understand so you're okay, you're familiar with this, but now, let me tell you this new twist on it. And I would assume, and I don't know this for sure, but I would assume Steve Jobs and the Apple team that was thinking of this smartphone concept, the iPhone as well, they had to align it with some level of compute capabilities, right. And if you notice, as it emerged, it also included something that already exists called the iPod which was already aligned with their laptop computers and their desktops, right. Your music would be downloaded as an app to connectivity, but now you can take it with you and by the way, now I'll add a phone to it and so this incrementally built and by the way, you ain't seen nothing yet, I'm going to add a GPS system, I'm going to add a camera, your flashlight, your wallet, I'm going to add all that in. So, I think, by incrementally moving but not upsetting the system, like you said, in a large company really, really helps because you can't change everything too quickly. You got to be okay being alone-- >> Well, I want to interrupt you there for a second. Peter Buress and I talk all the time; I love his quote, Peter Buress, head Cube on research says, the iPhone was a computer that happened to make phone calls. Okay, and that's the smartphone, it's category creator and we know what happened, the rest is history. However, you mentioned talking to customers, having an inspiration customer, I love that concept. Because you need a muse as an innovator. You got to have someone you can trust that knows what you're trying to do that understands the mission. If Steve Jobs went into the marketplace and did market research, he would have probably had the customer feedback to build the best Blackberry. A better Blackberry or another device. Instead, he used is gut, was on his mission and then he understood the inspirational customer, whether it was real or not, he was going down a different road. It takes guts but also some discipline. >> I hear you and I agree with this 100%. When I had the great fortune of leading a team that created the first enterprise blade server or converge system, and today that is pushing about a 10 billion dollar market opportunity, and not one customer asked me for it. Now, that doesn't mean I didn't listen, okay. But I had to bring it to them. So here's the difference, we're not responding to trends, this is a key point, we're creating a trend. And what I tell my team is, you must create trends, not follow them. Many of competitors, are by the way making good money and doing good business, I'm not knocking that, but I'm saying they're not creating a trend, they're actually following one. They're in an exploding tam. >> Pretty lucrative trend. >> It can be. >> Very mature, big market. >> Dave Thomas with Wendy's followed a trend called hamburgers and he did pretty well. He didn't create the hamburger market but he followed one. Now, this is really rather interesting. So when you come in, and then you're saying I want to actually set a trend and create one, it really gives you this opportunity to redefine what is happening. So now, quick story, you may have heard this, maybe your viewers have heard this. A manager of a shoe company sends two guys to an island. He says, I want you to sell shoes on this island. They get to the island, the first guy calls back and says, boss, this is terrible, everybody is barefoot. There's no opportunity to sell shoes. This is terrible, I'm coming home. The second guy calls and says, boss, you're not going to believe this, there's not a shoe on this island and I have a tam that's 100% of the market to sell shoes. I believe, as you pointed out, Steve Jobs didn't go and say well, what apps do you own on your Blackberry. What he did is reversed it and this is what we're doing, we're reversing, we're saying, if you could watch a full length high definition movie in your hand, would you? Well, I can but I can't do it on this device. But if you could, right. So now, in the IOT, I hear this all the time from my competitors and even some colleagues out in the industry, well, we ask them what apps they run at the Edge. We ask them what they do at the Edge. That's good, that's necessary but not sufficient. You have to say, but if you had this product, wouldn't you, for example, run an entire database? Would you compile your machine learning models at the Edge, do it in the cloud now, wouldn't you do that, if you had it? Well, I never thought of that because I don't have that capability, just like, well, I never thought of being able to take pictures and watch full length high definition movies 'cause I never had it. But what if you did, would you do it? So you always got to be setting that trend, not responding to it only. >> That's awesome. >> Dr. Tom Bradicich, writing a book called First Mover really about being innovative. Give you the final word, thanks for coming in, appreciate you sharing the advice. What's going on with HPE and your IOT work? Take a minute to talk about what's happening at HPE. >> Well, thanks, pretty exciting, we've been able to move forward with some really great customer wins. I'm hoping to go public with them. We're in many ways, I know this is an abused term, but we're revolutionizing the industrial IOT in particular and manufacturing floors. We have the large auto-manufacturer that has chosen Edgeline as the standard to produce more and more vehicles per day. That's their goal, how many more vehicles can I get into my customer's hands per day. We have snack company making potato chips. Looking at what we're doing with sulfur, defining operations. We have even, we've talked about this before, space travel, engage with what the space edge is all about. In many ways, we're potato chips to space ships. >> Data centers on Mars. >> Data centers everywhere. >> And then, also, converging OT, just like the smartphone converged the camera and the GPS system, we're converging control systems, data acquisition systems. It's pretty exciting, I've been fortunate to have a company and our new CEO, Antonia Neery, has been very supportive, I was with him this morning and we talked about that new, first-of-a-kind product that we have at this auto-- >> So, is Antonio going to let us come in and do an exclusive interview since he's been a Cube alumni multiple times? >> Yes, I think he should. >> Tell him we said hello. >> I will, I will. >> Tom, great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Tom Bradicich, great thought leader, really around category killers, category creators, being innovative and different, that's the key to success. Thanks for sharing. This is the Cube Conversation here in Palo Alto, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. 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>> Announcer: Live from Madrid, Spain. It's the Cube. Covering HPE Discover Madrid 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Welcome back to Madrid everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage, and this is day two of HPE Discover 2017. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, Peter Burris, Alain Andreoli is here. He's the Senior Vice President and general manager of the hybrid IT group at HPE. Great to see you again. >> Great to see you David, great to see you Peter. >> So, a lot of good energy here, the story Alain is coming together. >> Alain: Yes. >> We've seen it over the last five years but really fine-tuned the organization and seems like things are going well. >> We have more clarity on our strategy than I've ever seen in a company, and this was not easy to do because the market is changing so fast. We addressing $120 billion market in hybrid IT, we lead the market in compute, we lead the market in storage, we lead the market with private cloud, we have invented composable, we are ramping up our Harper converge offering, and now on top of the infrastructure, we building these layers of one sphere, which is managing a multi-cloud environment for the data, and we are adjusting our services to become advisory and consumption models. This is having such an impact on our customers, 74 percent of our customers are going for hybrid IT journey. So we have organized ourselves to make this journey to be basically the partner of choice for our customers as they go through that. >> I mean so cloud of the last five, seven years, cloud and open-source software have really disrupted our industry. You've had to respond to that, and basically bringing cloud-like operating models to your customers. >> Alain: Yes. >> How have you done that, how do you rate your progress and where are you to date in that regard? >> So the first decision we had to make is are we a neutral party to our customers? (laughing) >> Dave: Yeah. >> We need to redo it. (laughing) >> They're getting you back, right? So, I don't know if you can see that, alright? Alain came by on his scooter, here we go, let's catch this. Here we go, this is called payback. (laughing) During Dr. Tom's interview, Alain came by with his scooter. (laughing) >> I will get you, I will get you for this. (laughing) >> It's great fun on the Cube. >> We can kid, that's alright. >> That's good. >> So the decision we had to make is are we the partner for our customers to go to the cloud or are we saying on PRIM is better? >> Dave: Yeah. >> And we 'vedecided to be this partner. Because we believe there is value for everyone and we believe it is not a one-way street. And we see actually that 32 percent of the customers who have moved work loads to the cloud are bringing these work loads back on PRIM. So we had to advise them. We helped them go through this journey, we really mean it, we helped them to go on Amazon, we helped them to go on Azure, we helped them to go on Google, and we helped them make it work, and this is why it's a service-led journey. The problem if you go on the public cloud is that we don't really know how much it is going to cost you, and you don't really have a single pane of glass to have all your data being managed across, what is now an ecosystem. We enabled them to do that. And the market we are directly addressing on PRIM is not shrinking. We still see huge pockets of growth, in flash storage, in HPC, you've seen the results we have in HPC. In Mission-Critical X86, in Hyperconvert, so we are basically moving from the one-size fits all type of organization of freeing X86 and start off storage, to become a company that offers value to customers, in specialized pools of compute, of storage, of networking, and offering them the end to end journey across the different stack. What I think is going to make a huge difference, if you look at the five-year horizon, is the growth of The Edge and the fact that 70 percent of the data are going to come from The Edge, and then you will really see the power of our strategy of private IT which goes from The Edge, to the core, to the cloud, because we will be able to enable our customers to have their data moving seamlessly across this journey. And we have exactly organized the company that way. >> One of the obvious use cases from what I like to call machine intelligence or artificial intelligence is really infusing artificial intelligence into infrastructure for predictive analytics and predictive maintenance, IT operations management, Infocyte, you got through an acquisition of Nimble and have been impressed with the pace at which you pushed that throughout the portfolio, I wondered if you could address that. >> We've been almost surprised. We looked at, we wanted to become the flash company because we saw that the market over three years, would completely move to flash. And when there is such a pendulum shift, you want to be at the forefront. >> Dave: Right. >> So we looked at all these companies who were having very strong positions on flash and Nimble intrigued us because they had, by far, when we talked to their customers, the highest customer satisfaction, I think it was something like 87 percent. >> The NPS is off the charts. >> The NPS is off the charts, right? And then we peeled the onion and we saw Infocyte, which was almost enough to start south because it was not part of our list, right? Initially of our list of this is how we are gonna select a company we want to acquire, and when we got into Infocyte, how it works, how we can actually port easily these to three power and then to SimpliVity and then to the rest of the portfolio we felt this is the crown jewel that is going to be the foundation of us making >> Dave: And not just the storage portfolio. >> No, end to end so we're gonna do these for everything, now we cannot do it in one day. The priority was to give a seamless experience to customers going three power or Nimble, so we've done that very quickly. We acquired the company six months ago and it's already there for three power. Next one will be Simplivity, very soon in a few weeks, then we go to the whole computes platform as well, then finally to networking. I hope, it's not a commitment, but I hope that by the end of next year, and under a year, we will be done for the whole infrastructure portfolio. >> And explain the benefit to customers. >> And then the benefit is that you basically have, you eliminate the need for level one and level two support because it's proactively, now you have to be wanting to have your device calling home, right? Because otherwise, if you want your device to be in the data center and insulated from communicating with the network effect, that is not going to work, so but assuming you want your device to be connected centrally, so that it can be monitored centrally the artificial intelligence that is embedded in Infocyte is basically going to monitor the behavior of your device compared with hundreds of thousands of other ones and therefore anything that is deviant will be flagged as a potential problem and resolved before you even know about it. That's one. So when you end up having a problem eventually, which is becoming very, very rare, then you directly call the level three engineer who is an expert and who has, on the screen, the behavior of your device for the last month compared to others, and the resolution is in less than a minute. So it's a revolution in the way to do service. >> So, one of the things that we've observed as we've talked to customers is that the characteristics of the problems that they're now trying to solve have real world elements, and that's really what The Edge is about in many respects. For the first 50 years of IT, we were doing accounting, and HR, and supply chain, and we were able to define what the data models looked like, we could therefore say, the data's going to be here, the processing is going to be here, we could build data centers. Now as you said, 70 percent of the data is going to be coming from The Edge. It's not clear, necessarily where the best place to process that data is. Where's the compute going to be? How's it going to integrate with people? In many respects, hybrid IT is about diminishing the degree to which infrastructure dictates the way the problem gets solved. Would you agree with that? It's kind of like where does, let the data reside where it needs to reside, and make sure that the business is a natural infrastructure that reflects and corresponds to the work that needs to get done. >> I totally agree with your problem statement, and the way you position the question. In terms of semantics, I would just say we need to make infrastructure invisible. It's still there because it's all running on infrastructure. The iPhone is infrastructure, your PC is infrastructure, your camera is infrastructure, it's all there. >> A C.I.O said to me not too long ago... >> But you know what? We are having this interview, we are not thinking about what makes it happen. >> Peter: Right, right, right. >> Our business is to talk and communicate right now, this all has got to be seamless and that's how we need to make IT, seamless. >> I had a conversation with a C.I.O. >> Invisible. >> Yeah, who said that the value of my infrastructure is inversely proportional to the degree to which anybody knows anything about it. So, is that kind of what the HP promise is, is we're gonna let the data and the work loads define where the infrastructure goes and ensure we have those options? >> It's exactly right and the vehicle to do that, we call it autonomous data centers. Your phone is a data center. Your data center is a data center. Your off-frame cloud is a data center that you are subcontracting, right? So we want all of these to be autonomous, in terms of self-healing and everything else, and then the intelligence of where these data are being moved and how you use what and when is the single pane of glass that we are developing around one sphere. And how to get the customers to move their work loads and their business around that is what we do with point next with services. This is our strategy. >> So let me break that down a little bit. So, we've got devices that are powerful enough that we could put new types of control, new types of work loads there if we wanted to, we've got now the ability to package infrastructure, and have a single pane of glass, and have a common management framework. >> Right. >> But when you say the autonomous data center, it's we have a common business approach thinking about policy, thinking about value, thinking about how we're gonna do things, and we can put that into this entire vision, and let it actually execute how that manifests itself from a business standpoint. >> Exactly right. >> Have I got that right? >> It's exactly right. I love the way you put it. That's exactly what we are trying to do. it's not going to be done in one day, but that is our strategy, and we have organized, once again, the whole company around it, to execute this strategy and to make it happen for our customers. >> So if we think about what an HPE customer is gonna look like in, you know a really good HPE customer in 2023, what.. >> Alain: That's a long time. >> That's, five years, but I'm giving you that much run way, because you're right, it's not there yet and if it's too ambitious then so be it, but how is a business person going to think differently about working, about the role that IT is going to play in the business, and what it means to have a great partnership with a company like HP? >> Yeah, so we are basically, our motto is One size doesn't fit all, so we are first trying to understand the business of the customer, and then we will apply solutions to enhance this business, or to empower this business, right? So, we have the biggest brace of infrastructure that you can think of, think about this infrastructure becoming self-healing, but this infrastructure is more and more specialized, there is HPC, there is Mission-Critical, we just found Superdome flex, or SAP, we have all these specializations that, for those customers to optimize their business outcome. Then we have the single pane of glass that allows everything to seamlessly operate the data around, and then our point-neck services are going to work with the customers to architect their IT model in a way that their work loads are optimized. And one of the key is the right mix. The right mix of what you do yourself, what you got from multi-cloud, how much do you pay for it, how much do you anticipate that you're gonna pay for it, do you want this to be CAPEX, do you want this to be OPEX? And then how do you manage The Edge, and with Aruba and with Edgeline, and then with all your IT platforms that can manage the data across The Edge. We have the capability to also let the customer decide, do I want a lot of analytics and decisions to be made at The Edge, in my devices, and this is highly valuable depending on what customer business model we are talking about, or, do I want all the data from the analog world through the censors to come straight back to the ranch. All of these decisions, we are gonna have platforms to allow customers to make these decisions, to decide, kind of templates if you want, this is how I want it to run, and to be executed, and then to be automatically, autonomously operated. That's our vision of how we can help our customers moving forward. >> Last question, so the attendees of Discover, your customers, when they go back and he or she talks to their boss, what do you want them to say about Discover 2018? >> I invested two or three days of my time to come to HPE Discover. It was really exciting because I felt that it's like a new company, it's the company I know. I know they are customer first and customer last, and they are the ones who help me when I have a problem, whether they created it or not, they are here to help me. This is not going away, but they are taking us to the new world. They are gonna help us to build our hybrid IT model, and I think we need to trust them to have a seat at the table when we make these decisions, boss. >> Intimacy, innovation... >> Alain: Yeah, innovation. >> Trust. >> HPE's no longer wandering in the desert. (laughing) >> Alain Andreoli thanks so much for coming on the Cube, it is always a pleasure. >> It was a pleasure. Take care, thanks Peter. >> Keep it right there, everybody, Peter and I will be back with our next guest, right after this short break, we're live from Madrid. You're watching the Cube. (techno music)