>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2018, brought to you by Cisco. (techy music playing) >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in Silicon Valley. We're in Mountain View, California, for Cisco's DevNet Create. I'm here with Lauren Cooney, our analyst here with Wikibon, of course. Our next guest is Monica Houston, director of Hackster Live, Hackster IO, Hackster.io, open source hardware, really kind of creating a great community model. Really started from a great idea. Great to have you, thanks for coming, joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, we're here at Cisco Live, so no better place to talk about hardware and software coming together, but first talk about how Hackster started, how it grew, where it is now today. >> Okay, so Hackster got started about four years ago here in San Francisco. The founders, Adam and Ben, they said they wanted to make a community for people that were interested in building open source hardware. Adam had actually come from starting his own hardware startup and realized that there were very few resources for people like him that wanted to build electronics, and so started a community. I got involved, started... We actually bought a DeLorean, drove it around the country and did hardware hack-a-thons in 12 different cities in the US. >> And so where's it today in terms of numbers, community members, and you're based in Seattle, is that right? >> I'm in Seattle. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, what's the community look like, what's the numbers look like? >> There are half a million people on our site and 15,000 open source projects. >> John: Wow, awesome. >> Yeah. >> That is totally awesome, what projects do you see being the most popular on your site? >> Lots of home automation, home automation's a really popular topic. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> We also get a lot of some pretty cool, like, music synthesizers, amplifiers. All kinds of stuff, yeah. >> That's great, now, say I'm like a... I, you know, have coded before but I'm not necessarily truly a developer. Like I'm a moonlighter, per se. >> Monica: Sure. (laughing) >> How could I get involved in this? >> Oh, man, there's tons of resources. So, actually on our site you can sort by difficulty. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> So, if you want to find some beginner projects you can sort by difficulty and find only beginner projects. Also we have tutorials, so tutorials, getting started projects. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Like, so you buy an Arduino or you buy a particle board and you want to learn how to use it you can search for a getting started project on the site. >> Lauren: That's great. >> Yeah. >> How are you, like... So, you're at DevNet Create-- >> Monica: Yeah. >> With Cisco and what are you doing here? Like, what are you talking about, what are you really interested in? >> So, I have a project called Breadboard to PCB. I'm actually... So, I was a front-end web developer and then I got into all this, so I'm fairly new to it as well. I've been doing it for about six years. I'm not an electrical engineer. (laughing) I have to tell myself, but I'm doing a project called Breadboard to PCB. I made a PCB last year, sort of taught myself how to do that and realized it's actually not that hard and I want to spread that around to people and make them realize that they can build their own PCBs, too. >> That's terrific, that's awesome. Are you and Cisco, DevNet looking to share content or anything like that that might be cool? >> Yes, definitely. (laughing) >> Lauren: Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right, and is there any more you can tell us about that or is that still in the works? >> Still in the works, yeah, we offer... So, we have all these different partners, like Microsoft, Intel, hopefully Cisco as well-- >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> That do, they have, their hub is hosted on our site and people share their projects there with full instructions of a template. We actually go through and make sure everyone shares their code and their schematics. So, they're very well put together projects. >> Lauren: Great. >> Talk about some of the most exciting things you worked on, because one of the things I love about the open source culture is the creativity kind of comes out of nowhere. (laughing) We were just talking, before you came out, about my son, how he's been hacking his own thing. With this culture now you have so much online information. You go to YouTube, there's always a how-to. These communities have great resources. You guys got a robust community. So, there's always that natural, organic, "Whoa, look what this person did." >> Monica: Yeah. >> Can you share some stories around some killer things that happened. Not "killer," good things or just some things that are just creatively cool that you never would've thought would happen. >> Oh, man, so Allen Pan is a maker, I think he's based in LA. He has a YouTube channel, Allen Pan, and he did this really cool... I guess The Last Airbender is a popular movie and he did this flame activated, or punch activated flamethrower on his wrist. So, you try this at home. (laughing) Might be a little dangerous. >> What's his YouTube channel? >> I believe it's Allen Pan, is his name. >> So, there's some creative stuff, so people just tinkering around but there's also some serious hardware engineers. >> Monica: Mm-hmm. >> Any businesses starting out of this? Have you seen any, like, good ventures emerge? >> There's been a few things that I forgot about. There was a really cool watch that was Kickstarted that if you're a cyclist you can wear it and it tells you, like, which way to turn based on your GPS. >> John: Mm-hmm. >> There was some really nice Bluetooth, very elegant, like, Bluetooth controlled lights, that with different colors those are nice, yeah. >> So, what are some of the things you guys are doing in the community that you think's notable that you could share, people might be interested and like, how do you guys organize? There's some things that you guys do differently. What are some of the community activities that, you know, are standard. You know, the normal thing, you have meetups and whatnot, but like, how do you guys run your community, what are some of your guiding principles. Can you share how things work? >> So, we are always open, so you can go to our site and there's no, you know, there's no pay wall or barrier to view all of our content because our content comes from our community, and like, they're the ones that are... We're encouraging them to really document their work. Also, yeah, so we do hardware hack-a-thons where we try to make sure-- >> John: Yeah. >> Everyone's very... We're very beginner friendly, I guess. That's one of our goals is to make sure that people are coming from all different... You know, it's the artists that are making cool projects and-- >> So, when new people come in-- >> Mm-hmm. >> They get welcome letter, kind of community email haze or chat, all that stuff going on, all that's in place. >> We have a news feed, we have discussion, comments on the project that we moderate a bit, so yeah. >> So, Hackster.io. >> Hackster.io, yeah. >> All right, what's the coolest thing you guys are doing right now that you think we should know about? >> So, sort of related, actually this weekend I was at a workshop to learn how to make my own fire projects. (laughing) I like fire, (laughing) yeah. >> John: A pyromaniac community. I want the flamethrower fist thing. >> Yeah, I know. (laughing) >> Lauren: Over here is, yeah. >> I'm instantly like maybe on YouTube or something, I want that. That's a great party trick. >> I think it's great. >> Until something lights up. >> Right. (laughing) >> All right, so what are you doing here at Cisco? What's the focus here, obviously great culture they're building here. Very developer, not a lot of Cisco Kool-Aid being injected here, but much more of an outreach for Cisco, what's your focus here? >> This is all new for me, actually. So, I did not realize that this has got such a huge developer community and was really involved and like, this is a great conference. >> Lauren: That's true. >> People are so nice. >> Yeah, and the internet of things is a big hardware-- >> Yeah. >> Focused market. >> Yes, yeah. >> So, they've got all the software there. >> It's only getting bigger, yeah. >> Cool. >> Mm-hmm. >> Cool, all right, so what's new in Seattle? Give us an update on what you're doing. >> All right, it's still raining there. (laughing) >> That is actually very good to know. (laughing) >> You have Microsoft up there. >> Monica: Yeah. >> You have Amazon. >> Monica: Mm-hmm. >> University of Washington, so you have kind of a nice, kind of geek culture developing up there. So, yeah, good open source hardware vibe up there? >> Yeah. >> What's the community like in Seattle? >> Yeah, I run meetups, there's lots of people that come out to different hardware meetups and there are, like, a lot of new, cool hardware startups. Like for instance, Glowforge is a laser cutter that was Kickstarted recently. >> Lauren: Yep. >> There's some other really neat... DiGo is a home automation light switch. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Yeah, there's some pretty cool startups. >> So, if someone wants to join your community, what would you say to them if they're watching this video right now, hey. What are they, what's it like to join, what are they going to be... What's the vibe like, what are some of the things that are involved? What's the value for someone watching, that might want to join this, totally into tinkering with hardware? >> One thing is a great format to share your projects, and also to document your projects. Documentation is really important and I like to say that a project doesn't exist unless it's documented. (laughing) >> John: Yeah. >> So, documenting it and then we'll boost your project, we'll share it on our social media and it'll get lots of views. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's an open, it's a nerd culture. I mean, by the way, robotics is the hottest thing going on. You can't get involved, a lot of the younger generation are absolutely enamored with robotics, just at all levels. From, you know, you've got drones, which is super cool, right. Then you've got all the kind of stuff that's, it's all about hardware, hardware. >> Well, this is great, I'm on the site and I'm looking right now at the mind control drone. >> Monica: Oh, yeah. (laughing) >> That is, you know, my question is does that really work? Can I, you know, can I actually do something. You know, take this and learn from the site and actually build that? >> There are, and there are some developer, I guess it's EEG or EKG, EMG is another one, that you can really, you know, you can think left or think right and it will go left or right, it figures it out, yeah. >> That is so cool. >> Are people meeting up on the site and doing work together. Is it like a collaborative kind of hub going on there? >> There are some people that are doing that. Yeah, there was a few people on our site that were doing work on the, what was it... Elon Musk's thing, the... Hyperloop. >> John: Yeah. >> There's, like, the Hyperloop contest, and so a few people on our site were doing some work for that. >> Lauren: That's great. >> So, yeah, people are meeting there, yeah, for sure. >> Monica, great to have you here in theCUBE. Thanks for sharing about Hackster.io. We're going to check it out and thanks for the tip on the YouTube channel. We'll get the fire flamethrower. >> Yeah, make your own flamethrowers. >> John's going to be busy this weekend. (laughing) >> I'm a pyromaniac, I keep playing with matches all the time. So, thanks for coming on, I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Hackster.io, we are theCUBE here live in Mountain View, California. Cisco DevNet Create, the Computer History Museum. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (techy music playing)

(lively music) >> Good afternoon and welcome back to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada, where we're here live from the show floor, all four days of AWS re:Invent. I'm Savannah Peterson, joined with my co-host Dave Vellante. Dave, how you doing? >> Good. Beautiful and chilly Las Vegas. Can't wait to get back to New England where it's warm. >> Balmy, New England this time of year in December. Wow, Dave, that's a bold statement. I am super excited about the conversation that we're going to be having next. And, you know, I'm not even going to tee it up. I just want to bring Dilip on. Dilip, thank you so much for being here. How you doing? >> Savannah, Dave, thank you so much. >> Hey, Dilip. >> Excited to be here. >> It's joy to have you. So, you have been working at Amazon for about 20 years. >> Almost. Almost. >> Yes. >> Feels like 20, 19 1/2. >> Which is very exciting. You've had a lot of roles. I'm going to touch on some of them, but you just came over to AWS from the physical retail side. Talk to me about that. >> Yup, so I've been to Amazon for 19 1/2 years. Done pricing, supply chain. I was Jeff Bezos technical advisor for a couple years. >> Casual name drop. >> Casual name drop. >> Savannah: But a couple people here for that name before. >> Humble brag, hashtag. And then I, for the last several years, I was leading our physical retail initiatives. We just walk out Amazon One, bringing convenience to physical spaces. And then in August, with like as those things were getting a lot of traction and we were selling to third parties, we felt that it would be better suited in AWS. And, but along with that, there was also another trend that's been brewing, which is, you know, companies have loved building on AWS. They love the infrastructure services, but increasingly, they're also asking us to build applications that are higher up in the stack. Solving key, turnkey business problems. Just walk out Amazon One or examples of that, Amazon Connect. We just recently announced supply chain, so now there's a bevy interesting services all coming together, higher up in the stack for customers. So it's an exciting time. >> It was interesting that you're able to, you know, transfer from that retail. I mean, normally, in historically, if you're within an industry, retail, manufacturing, automotive whatever. You were kind as locked in a little bit. >> Dilip: Siloed a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Because they had their own, your own value chain. And I guess, data has changed that maybe, that you can traverse now. >> Yeah, if you think about the things that we did, even when we were in retail, the tenants was less about the industries and more about how can we bring convenience to physical spaces? The fact that you don't like to wait in line is no more like likely, you know, five years from now than it is today. So, it's a very durable tenant, but it's equally applicable whether you're in a grocery store, a convenience store, a stadium, an airport. So it actually transcends any, and like supply chain, think of supply chain. Supply chain isn't, you know, targeted to any one particular industry. It has broad applicability. So these things are very, you know, horizontally applicable. >> Anything that makes my life easier, I'm down. >> Savannah: We're all here for the easy button. We've been talking about it a bit this week. I'm in. And the retail store, I mean, I'm in San Francisco. I've had the experience of going through. Very interesting and seamless journey, honestly. It's very exciting. So tell us a little bit more about the applications group at AWS. >> Yup. So as I said, you know, we are, the applications group is a combination of several services. You know, we have communication developer services, which is the ability to add simple email service or video and embed video, voice chat using a chime SDK. In a higher up in the stack, we are taking care of things that IT administrators have to deal with where you can provision an entire desktop with the workspaces or provide a femoral access to it. And then as you go up even higher up in the stack, you have productivity applications like AWS Wicker, which we just did GA, you know, last week in AWS Clean Rooms which we announced as a service in preview. And then you have, you know, Connect, which is our cloud contact center, AWS supply chain. Just walk out Amazon One, it just feels like we're getting started. >> Just a couple things going on. >> So, clean rooms. Part of the governance play, part of data sharing. Can you explain, you know, we were talking offline, but I remember back in the disk drive days. We were in a clean room, they'd show you the clean room, you couldn't go near it unless you had a hazmat suit on. So now you're applying that to data. Explain that concept. >> Yeah, so the companies across, you know, financial services or healthcare, advertising, they all want to be able to combine and pull together data`sets with their partners in order to get these collaborative insights. The problem is either the data's fragmented, it's siloed or you have, you know, data governance issues that's preventing them from sharing. And the key requirement is that they want to be able to share this data without exposing any of the underlying data. Clean rooms are always emerged as a solution to that, but the problem with that is that they're hard to maintain. They're expensive. You have to write complex privacy queries. And if you make a mistake, you risk exposing the same data that you've been, you know, studiously trying to protect. >> Trying to protect. >> You know, take advertising as an industry, as an example. You know, advertisers care about, is my ad effective? But it turns out that if you're an advertiser and let's say you're a Nike or some other advertiser and your pop, you know, you place an ad on the website. Well, you want to stop showing the ad to people who have already purchased the product. However, people who purchased the product,- >> Savannah: It happens all the time. >> that purchasing data is not accessible to them easily. But if you could combine those insights, you know, the publishers benefit, advertisers benefits. So AWS Clean Rooms is that service that allows you very easily to be able to collaborate with a group of folks and then be able to gain these collaborative insights. >> And the consumers benefit. I mean, how many times you bought, you search it. >> It happens all the time. >> They know. And like, I just bought that guys, you know? >> Yeah, no, exactly. >> Four weeks. >> And I'm like, you don't need to serve me that, you know? And we understand the marketing backend. And it's just a waste of money and energy and resources. I mean, we're talking about sustainability as well. I don't think supply chain has ever had a hotter moment than it's had the last two and a half years. Tell me more about the announcement. >> Yup, so super excited about this. As you know, as you said, supply chains have always been very critical and very core for companies. The pandemic exacerbated it. So, ours way of sort of thinking about supply chains is to say that, you know, companies have taken, over the years many, like dozens, like millions and millions of dollars of investment in building their own supply chains. But the problem with supply chains is that the reason that they're not as functional as they could be is because of the lack of visibility. Because they're strung together very many disparate systems, that lack of visibility affects agility. And so, our approach in it was to say that, well, if we could have folks use their existing supply chain what can we do to improve the investment on the ROI of what they're getting? By creating a layer on top of it, that provides them that insights, connects all of these disparate data and then provides them insights to say, well, you know, here's where you overstock, here's where you under stock. You know, this is the, you know, the carbon emission impact of being able to transfer something. So like rather without requiring people to re-platform, what's the way that we can add value in it? And then also build upon Amazon's, you know, years of supply chain experience, to be able to build these predictive analytics for customers. >> So, that's a good, I like that you started with the why. >> Yes. >> Right now, what is it? It's an abstraction layer and then you're connecting into different data points. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Injecting ML. >> Feel like you can pick in, like if you think about supply chain, you can have warehouse management systems, order management systems. It could be in disparate things. We use ML to be able to bring all of this disparate data in and create our unified data lake. Once you have that unified data lake, you can then run an insights layer on top of it to be able to say, so that as the data changes, supply chain is not a static thing. Data's constantly changing. As the data's changing, the data lake now reflects the most up-to-date information. You can have alerts and insights set up on it to say that, what are the kinds of things that you're interested in? And then more importantly, supply chain and agility is about communication. In order to be able to make certain things happen, you need to be able to communicate, you need to make sure that everyone's on the same page. And we allow for a lot of the communication and collaboration tools to be built within this platform so that you're not necessarily leaving to go and toggle from one place to the other to solve your problems. >> And in the pie chart of how people spend their time, they're spending a lot less time communicating and being proactive. >> That's correct. >> And getting ahead of the curve. They're spending more time trying to figure out actually what's going on. >> Yes. >> And that's the problem that you're going to solve. >> Well, and it ensures that the customer at the other end of that supply chain experience is going to have their expectations managed in terms of when their good might get there or whatever's going to happen. >> Exactly. >> I feel like that expectation management has been such a big part of it. Okay, I just have to ask because I'm very curious. What was it like advising Jeff? >> Quite possibly the best job that I've ever had. You know, he's a fascinating individual. >> Did he pay you to say that? >> Nope. But I would've, like, I would've done it for like, it's remarkable seeing how he thinks and his approach to problem solving. It is, you know, you could be really tactical and go very deep. You could be extremely strategic. And to be able to sort of move effortlessly between those two is a unique skill. I learned a lot. >> Yeah, absolutely. So what made you want to evolve your career at Amazon after that? 'Cause I see on your LinkedIn, you say, it was the best job you ever had. With curiosity? >> Yeah, so one of the things, so the role is designed for you to be able to transition to something new. >> Savannah: Oh, cool. >> So after I finished that role, we were just getting into our foray with physical stores. And the idea between physical stores is that, you and I as consumers, we all have a lot of choices for physical stores. You know, there's a lot of options, there's a lot of formats. And so the last thing we wanted to do is come up with another me too offering. So, our approach was that what can we do to improve convenience in physical stores? That's what resulted in just walk out to Amazon Go. That's what resulted in Amazon One, which is another in a fast, convenient, contactless way to pay using the power of your palm. And now, what started in Amazon retail is now expanded to several third parties in, you know, stadiums, convention centers, airports. >> Airport, I just had, was in the Houston airport and got to do a humanless checkout. >> Dilip: Exactly. >> And actually in Honolulu a couple weeks ago as well too. Yeah, so we're going to see more and more of this. >> Yes. >> So what Amazon, I think has over a million employees. A lot of those are warehouse employees. But what advice would you give to somebody who's somewhere inside of Amazon, maybe they're on AWS, maybe they're Amazon. What advice would you give somebody inside that's maybe, you know, hey, I've been at this job for five, six years, three, four years, whatever it is. I want to do something else. And there's so much opportunity inside Amazon, right? What would you advise them? >> My single advice, which is actually transferable and I use it for myself is choose something that makes you a little uncomfortable. >> Dave: Get out of your comfort zone. >> It's like, you got to do that. It's like, it's not the easiest thing to hear, but it's also the most satisfying. Because almost every single time that I've done it for myself, it's resulted in like, you don't really know what the answer is. You don't really know exactly where you're going to end up, but the process and the journey through it, if you experience a little bit of discomfort constantly, it makes you non complacent. It makes you sort of not take the job, sort of in a stride. You have to be on it to do it. So that's the advice that I would give anyone. >> Yeah, that's good. So something that's maybe adjacent and maybe not completely foreign to you, but also something that, you know, you got to go dig a little bit and learn. >> You're planning a career change over here, Dave? >> No, I know a lot of people in Amazon are like, hey, I'm trying to figure out what I want to do next. I mean, I love it here. I live by the LPS, you know, but, and there's so much to choose from. >> It is, you know, when I joined in 2003, there were so many things that we were sort of doing today. None of those existed. It's a fascinating company. And the evolution, you could be in 20 different places and the breadth of the kinds of things that, you know, the Amazon experience provides is timeless. It's fascinating. >> And, you know, you look at a company like Amazon, and, you know, it's so amazing. You look at this ecosystem. I've been around- >> Even a show floor. >> I've been around a lot of time. And the show floor says it all. But I've seen a lot of, you know, waves. And each subsequent wave, you know, we always talk about how many companies were in the Fortune 1000 and aren't anymore. And, but the leaders, you know, survive and they thrive. And I think it's fascinating to try to better understand the culture that enables that. You know, you look at a company like Microsoft that was irrelevant and then came back. You know, even IBM was on death store for a while and they come back and so they. And so, but Amazon just feels, you know, at the moment you feel like, "Oh wow, nothing can stop this machine." 'Cause everybody's trying to disrupt Amazon and then, you know, only the paranoid survive, all that stuff. But it's not like, past is not prologue, all right? So that's why I asked these questions. And you just said that a lot of the services today that although the ideas didn't even exist, I mean, walkout. I mean, that's just amazing. >> I think one of the things that Amazon does really well culturally is that they create the single threaded leadership. They give people focus. If you have to get something done, you have to give people focus. You can't distract them with like seven different things and then say that, oh, by the way, your eighth job is to innovate. It just doesn't work that way. It's like it's hard. Like it can be- >> And where were the energy come from that? >> Exactly. And so giving people that single threaded focus is super important. >> Frank Slootman, the CEO of Snowflake, has a great quote. He wrote on his book. He said, "If you got 14 priorities, you got none." And he asks,- >> Well said. >> he challenges people. If you had to give up everything and do only one thing for the next 365 days, what would that be? It's a really hard question to answer. >> I feel like as we're around New Year's resolution times. I mean when we thinking about that, maybe we can all share our one thing. So, Dilip, you've been with the the applications team for five months. What's coming up next? >> Well, as I said, you know, it feels like it's still day one for applications. If you think about the things, the news that we introduced and the several services that we introduced, it has applicability across a variety of horizontal industries. But then we're also feeling that there's considerable vertical applications that can be built for specific things. Like, it could be in advertising, it could be in financial services, it could be in manufacturing. The opportunities are endless. I think the notion of people wanting applications higher up in the stack and a little more turnkey solutions is also, it's not new for us, but it's also new and creative too. You know, AWS has traditionally been doing. >> So again, this relates to what we were sort of talking about before. And maybe, this came from Jazzy or maybe it came from Bezos. But you hear a lot, it's okay to be misunderstood or if we were misunderstood for a long time. So when people hear up the stack, they think, when you think about apps, you know, in the last 10 years it was taking on-prem and bringing it into the cloud. Okay, you saw that with CREM, email, CRM, service management, you know, data warehouses, et cetera. Amazon is thinking about this in a different way. It's like you're looking at the world saying, okay, how can we improve whatever? Workflows, people's lives, doing something that's not been done before? And that seems to be the kind of applications that you guys are thinking about building. >> Yeah. >> And that's unique. It's not just, okay, we're going to take something on-prem put it in the cloud. Been there, done that. That S-curve is sort of flattening now. But there's a new S-curve which is completely new workflows and innovations and processes that we really haven't thought about yet. Or you're thinking about, I presume. >> Yeah. Having said that, I'd also like to sort of remind folks that when you consider the, you know, the entire spend, the portion of workloads that are running in the cloud is a teeny tiny fraction. It's like less than 5%, like 4% or something like that. So it's a very, there's still plenty of things that can sort of move to the cloud. But you're right that there is another trend of where in the stack and the types of applications that you can provide as well. >> Yeah, new innovation that haven't well thought of yet. >> So, Dilip, we have a new tradition here on theCUBE at re:Invent. Where we're looking for your 30 minute Instagram reel, your hot take, biggest key theme, either for you, your team, or just general vibe from the show. >> General vibe from the show. Well, 19 1/2 years at Amazon, this is actually my first re:Invent, believe it or not. This is my, as a AWS employee now, as re:Invent with like launching services. So that's the first. I've been to re:Invent before, but as an attendee rather than as a person who's, you know, a contributing number of the workforce. >> Working actually? >> If you will. >> Actually doing your job. >> And so I'm just amazed at the energy and the breadth. And the, you know, from the partners to the customers to the diversity of people who are coming here from everywhere. I had meetings from people in New Zealand. Like, you know, the UK, like customers are coming at us from like very many different places. And it's fascinating for me to see. It's new for me as well given, you know, some of my past experience. But this is a, it's been a blast. >> People are pumped. >> People are pumped. >> They can't believe the booth traffic. Not only that quality. >> Right. All of our guests have talked about that. >> Like, yeah, you know, we're going to throw half of these leads away, but they're saying no, I'm having like really substantive conversations with business people. This is, I think, my 10th re:Invent. And the first one was mostly developers. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And, you know, so. Now it's a lot more business people, a lot of developers too. >> Yeah. >> It's just. >> The community really makes it. Dilip, thank you so much for joining us today on theCube. >> Thank you for having me. >> You're fantastic. I could ask you a million questions. Be sure and tell Jeff that we said hi. >> Will do. >> Savannah: Next time you guys are hanging out. And thank all of you. >> You want to go into space? >> Yeah. Yes, yes, absolutely. I'm perhaps the most space obsessed on the show. And with that, we will continue our out of this world coverage shortly from fabulous Las Vegas where we are at AWS re:Invent. It is day four with Dave Vellante. I'm Savannah Peterson and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (lively music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is the birthplace of theCUBE. In 2010, May of 2010 at EMC World, right in this very venue, John Furrier called it the chowder and lobster post. I'm Dave Vellante. We're here at RE:INFORCE 2022, Ed Walsh, CEO of ChaosSearch. Doing a drive by Ed. Thanks so much for stopping in. You're going to help me wrap up in our final editorial segment. >> Looking forward to it. >> I really appreciate it. >> Thank you for including me. >> How about that? 2010. >> That's amazing. It was really in this-- >> Really in this building. Yeah, we had to sort of bury our way in, tunnel our way into the Blogger Lounge. We did four days. >> Weekends, yeah. >> It was epic. It was really epic. But I'm glad they're back in Boston. AWS was going to do June in Houston. >> Okay. >> Which would've been awful. >> Yeah, yeah. No, this is perfect. >> Yeah. Thank God they came back. You saw Boston in summer is great. I know it's been hot, And of course you and I are from this area. >> Yeah. >> So how you been? What's going on? I mean, it's a little crazy out there. The stock market's going crazy. >> Sure. >> Having the tech lash, what are you seeing? >> So it's an interesting time. So I ran a company in 2008. So we've been through this before. By the way, the world's not ending, we'll get through this. But it is an interesting conversation as an investor, but also even the customers. There's some hesitation but you have to basically have the right value prop, otherwise things are going to get sold. So we are seeing longer sales cycles. But it's nothing that you can't overcome. But it has to be something not nice to have, has to be a need to have. But I think we all get through it. And then there is some, on the VC side, it's now buckle down, let's figure out what to do which is always a challenge for startup plans. >> In pre 2000 you, maybe you weren't a CEO but you were definitely an executive. And so now it's different and a lot of younger people haven't seen this. You've got interest rates now rising. Okay, we've seen that before but it looks like you've got inflation, you got interest rates rising. >> Yep. >> The consumer spending patterns are changing. You had 6$, $7 gas at one point. So you have these weird crosscurrents, >> Yup. >> And people are thinking, "Okay post-September now, maybe because of the recession, the Fed won't have to keep raising interest rates and tightening. But I don't know what to root for. It's like half full, half empty. (Ed laughing) >> But we haven't been in an environment with high inflation. At least not in my career. >> Right. Right. >> I mean, I got into 92, like that was long gone, right?. >> Yeah. >> So it is a interesting regime change that we're going to have to deal with, but there's a lot of analogies between 2008 and now that you still have to work through too, right?. So, anyway, I don't think the world's ending. I do think you have to run a tight shop. So I think the grow all costs is gone. I do think discipline's back in which, for most of us, discipline never left, right?. So, to me that's the name of the game. >> What do you tell just generally, I mean you've been the CEO of a lot of private companies. And of course one of the things that you do to retain people and attract people is you give 'em stock and it's great and everybody's excited. >> Yeah. >> I'm sure they're excited cause you guys are a rocket ship. But so what's the message now that, Okay the market's down, valuations are down, the trees don't grow to the moon, we all know that. But what are you telling your people? What's their reaction? How do you keep 'em motivated? >> So like anything, you want over communicate during these times. So I actually over communicate, you get all these you know, the Sequoia decks, 2008 and the recent... >> (chuckles) Rest in peace good times, that one right? >> I literally share it. Why? It's like, Hey, this is what's going on in the real world. It's going to affect us. It has almost nothing to do with us specifically, but it will affect us. Now we can't not pay attention to it. It does change how you're going to raise money, so you got to make sure you have the right runway to be there. So it does change what you do, but I think you over communicate. So that's what I've been doing and I think it's more like a student of the game, so I try to share it, and I say some appreciate it others, I'm just saying, this is normal, we'll get through this and this is what happened in 2008 and trust me, once the market hits bottom, give it another month afterwards. Then everyone says, oh, the bottom's in and we're back to business. Valuations don't go immediately back up, but right now, no one knows where the bottom is and that's where kind of the world's ending type of things. >> Well, it's interesting because you talked about, I said rest in peace good times >> Yeah >> that was the Sequoia deck, and the message was tighten up. Okay, and I'm not saying you shouldn't tighten up now, but the difference is, there was this period of two years of easy money and even before that, it was pretty easy money. >> Yeah. >> And so companies are well capitalized, they have runway so it's like, okay, I was talking to Frank Slootman about this now of course there are public companies, like we're not taking the foot off the gas. We're inherently profitable, >> Yeah. >> we're growing like crazy, we're going for it. You know? So that's a little bit of a different dynamic. There's a lot of good runway out there, isn't there? >> But also you look at the different companies that were either born or were able to power through those environments are actually better off. You come out stronger in a more dominant position. So Frank, listen, if you see what Frank's done, it's been unbelievable to watch his career, right?. In fact, he was at Data Domain, I was Avamar so, but look at what he's done since, he's crushed it. Right? >> Yeah. >> So for him to say, Hey, I'm going to literally hit the gas and keep going. I think that's the right thing for Snowflake and a right thing for a lot of people. But for people in different roles, I literally say that you have to take it seriously. What you can't be is, well, Frank's in a different situation. What is it...? How many billion does he have in the bank? So it's... >> He's over a billion, you know, over a billion. Well, you're on your way Ed. >> No, no, no, it's good. (Dave chuckles) Okay, I want to ask you about this concept that we've sort of we coined this term called Supercloud. >> Sure. >> You could think of it as the next generation of multi-cloud. The basic premises that multi-cloud was largely a symptom of multi-vendor. Okay. I've done some M&A, I've got some Shadow IT, spinning up, you know, Shadow clouds, projects. But it really wasn't a strategy to have a continuum across clouds. And now we're starting to see ecosystems really build, you know, you've used the term before, standing on the shoulders of giants, you've used that a lot. >> Yep. >> And so we're seeing that. Jerry Chen wrote a seminal piece on Castles in The Cloud, so we coined this term SuperCloud to connote this abstraction layer that hides the underlying complexities and primitives of the individual clouds and then adds value on top of it and can adjudicate and manage, irrespective of physical location, Supercloud. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What do you think about that concept?. How does it maybe relate to some of the things that you're seeing in the industry? >> So, standing on shoulders of giants, right? So I always like to do hard tech either at big company, small companies. So we're probably your definition of a Supercloud. We had a big vision, how to literally solve the core challenge of analytics at scale. How are you going to do that? You're not going to build on your own. So literally we're leveraging the primitives, everything you can get out of the Amazon cloud, everything get out of Google cloud. In fact, we're even looking at what it can get out of this Snowflake cloud, and how do we abstract that out, add value to it? That's where all our patents are. But it becomes a simplified approach. The customers don't care. Well, they care where their data is. But they don't care how you got there, they just want to know the end result. So you simplify, but you gain the advantages. One thing's interesting is, in this particular company, ChaosSearch, people try to always say, at some point the sales cycle they say, no way, hold on, no way that can be fast no way, or whatever the different issue. And initially we used to try to explain our technology, and I would say 60% was explaining the public, cloud capabilities and then how we, harvest those I guess, make them better add value on top and what you're able to get is something you couldn't get from the public clouds themselves and then how we did that across public clouds and then extracted it. So if you think about that like, it's the Shoulders of giants. But what we now do, literally to avoid that conversation because it became a lengthy conversation. So, how do you have a platform for analytics that you can't possibly overwhelm for ingest. All your messy data, no pipelines. Well, you leverage things like S3 and EC2, and you do the different security things. You can go to environments say, you can't possibly overrun me, I could not say that. If I didn't literally build on the shoulders giants of all these public clouds. But the value. So if you're going to do hard tech as a startup, you're going to build, you're going to be the principles of Supercloud. Maybe they're not the same size of Supercloud just looking at Snowflake, but basically, you're going to leverage all that, you abstract it out and that's where you're able to have a lot of values at that. >> So let me ask you, so I don't know if there's a strict definition of Supercloud, We sort of put it out to the community and said, help us define it. So you got to span multiple clouds. It's not just running in each cloud. There's a metadata layer that kind of understands where you're pulling data from. Like you said you can pull data from Snowflake, it sounds like we're not running on Snowflake, correct? >> No, complimentary to them in their different customers. >> Yeah. Okay. >> They want to build on top of a data platform, data apps. >> Right. And of course they're going cross cloud. >> Right. >> Is there a PaaS layer in there? We've said there's probably a Super PaaS layer. You're probably not doing that, but you're allowing people to bring their own, bring your own PaaS sort of thing maybe. >> So we're a little bit different but basically we publish open APIs. We don't have a user interface. We say, keep the user interface. Again, we're solving the challenge of analytics at scale, we're not trying to retrain your analytics, either analysts or your DevOps or your SOV or your Secop team. They use the tools they already use. Elastic search APIs, SQL APIs. So really they program, they build applications on top of us, Equifax is a good example. Case said it coming out later on this week, after 18 months in production but, basically they're building, we provide the abstraction layer, the quote, I'm going to kill it, Jeff Tincher, who owns all of SREs worldwide, said to the effect of, Hey I'm able to rethink what I do for my data pipelines. But then he also talked about how, that he really doesn't have to worry about the data he puts in it. We deal with that. And he just has to, just query on the other side. That simplicity. We couldn't have done that without that. So anyway, what I like about the definition is, if you were going to do something harder in the world, why would you try to rebuild what Amazon, Google and Azure or Snowflake did? You're going to add things on top. We can still do intellectual property. We're still doing patents. So five grand patents all in this. But literally the abstraction layer is the simplification. The end users do not want to know that complexity, even though they ask the questions. >> And I think too, the other attribute is it's ecosystem enablement. Whereas I think, >> Absolutely >> in general, in the Multicloud 1.0 era, the ecosystem wasn't thinking about, okay, how do I build on top and abstract that. So maybe it is Multicloud 2.0, We chose to use Supercloud. So I'm wondering, we're at the security conference, >> RE: INFORCE is there a security Supercloud? Maybe Snyk has the developer Supercloud or maybe Okta has the identity Supercloud. I think CrowdStrike maybe not. Cause CrowdStrike competes with Microsoft. So maybe, because Microsoft, what's interesting, Merritt Bear was just saying, look, we don't show up in the spending data for security because we're not charging for most of our security. We're not trying to make a big business. So that's kind of interesting, but is there a potential for the security Supercloud? >> So, I think so. But also, I'll give you one thing I talked to, just today, at least three different conversations where everyone wants to log data. It's a little bit specific to us, but basically they want to do the security data lake. The idea of, and Snowflake talks about this too. But the idea of putting all the data in one repository and then how do you abstract out and get value from it? Maybe not the perfect, but it becomes simple to do but hard to get value out. So the different players are going to do that. That's what we do. We're able to, once you land it in your S3 or it doesn't matter, cloud of choice, simple storage, we allow you to get after that data, but we take the primitives and hide them from you. And all you do is query the data and we're spinning up stateless computer to go after it. So then if I look around the floor. There's going to be a bunch of these players. I don't think, why would someone in this floor try to recreate what Amazon or Google or Azure had. They're going to build on top of it. And now the key thing is, do you leave it in standard? And now we're open APIs. People are building on top of my open APIs or do you try to put 'em in a walled garden? And they're in, now your Supercloud. Our belief is, part of it is, it needs to be open access and let you go after it. >> Well. And build your applications on top of it openly. >> They come back to snowflake. That's what Snowflake's doing. And they're basically saying, Hey come into our proprietary environment. And the benefit is, and I think both can win. There's a big market. >> I agree. But I think the benefit of Snowflake's is, okay, we're going to have federated governance, we're going to have data sharing, you're going to have access to all the ecosystem players. >> Yep. >> And as everything's going to be controlled and you know what you're getting. The flip side of that is, Databricks is the other end >> Yeah. >> of that spectrum, which is no, no, you got to be open. >> Yeah. >> So what's going to happen, well what's happening clearly, is Snowflake's saying, okay we've got Snowpark. we're going to allow Python, we're going to have an Apache Iceberg. We're going to have open source tooling that you can access. By the way, it's not going to be as good as our waled garden where the flip side of that is you get Databricks coming at it from a data science and data engineering perspective. And there's a lot of gaps in between, aren't there? >> And I think they both win. Like for instance, so we didn't do Snowpark integration. But we work with people building data apps on top of Snowflake or data bricks. And what we do is, we can add value to that, or what we've done, again, using all the Supercloud stuff we're done. But we deal with the unstructured data, the four V's coming at you. You can't pipeline that to save. So we actually could be additive. As they're trying to do like a security data cloud inside of Snowflake or do the same thing in Databricks. That's where we can play. Now, we play with them at the application level that they get some data from them and some data for us. But I believe there's a partnership there that will do it inside their environment. To us they're just another large scaler environment that my customers want to get after data. And they want me to abstract it out and give value. >> So it's another repository to you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So I think Snowflake recently added support for unstructured data. You chose not to do Snowpark because why? >> Well, so the way they're doing the unstructured data is not bad. It's JSON data. Basically, This is the dilemma. Everyone wants their application developers to be flexible, move fast, securely but just productivity. So you get, give 'em flexibility. The problem with that is analytics on the end want to be structured to be performant. And this is where Snowflake, they have to somehow get that raw data. And it's changing every day because you just let the developers do what they want now, in some structured base, but do what you need to do your business fast and securely. So it completely destroys. So they have large customers trying to do big integrations for this messy data. And it doesn't quite work, cause you literally just can't make the pipelines work. So that's where we're complimentary do it. So now, the particular integration wasn't, we need a little bit deeper integration to do that. So we're integrating, actually, at the data app layer. But we could, see us and I don't, listen. I think Snowflake's a good actor. They're trying to figure out what's best for the customers. And I think we just participate in that. >> Yeah. And I think they're trying to figure out >> Yeah. >> how to grow their ecosystem. Because they know they can't do it all, in fact, >> And we solve the key thing, they just can't do certain things. And we do that well. Yeah, I have SQL but that's where it ends. >> Yeah. >> I do the messy data and how to play with them. >> And when you talk to one of their founders, anyway, Benoit, he comes on the cube and he's like, we start with simple. >> Yeah. >> It reminds me of the guy's some Pure Storage, that guy Coz, he's always like, no, if it starts to get too complicated. So that's why they said all right, we're not going to start out trying to figure out how to do complex joins and workload management. And they turn that into a feature. So like you say, I think both can win. It's a big market. >> I think it's a good model. And I love to see Frank, you know, move. >> Yeah. I forgot So you AVMAR... >> In the day. >> You guys used to hate each other, right? >> No, no, no >> No. I mean, it's all good. >> But the thing is, look what he's done. Like I wouldn't bet against Frank. I think it's a good message. You can see clients trying to do it. Same thing with Databricks, same thing with BigQuery. We get a lot of same dynamic in BigQuery. It's good for a lot of things, but it's not everything you need to do. And there's ways for the ecosystem to play together. >> Well, what's interesting about BigQuery is, it is truly cloud native, as is Snowflake. You know, whereas Amazon Redshift was sort of Parexel, it's cobbled together now. It's great engineering, but BigQuery gets a lot of high marks. But again, there's limitations to everything. That's why companies like yours can exist. >> And that's why.. so back to the Supercloud. It allows me as a company to participate in that because I'm leveraging all the underlying pieces. Which we couldn't be doing what we're doing now, without leveraging the Supercloud concepts right, so... >> Ed, I really appreciate you coming by, help me wrap up today in RE:INFORCE. Always a pleasure seeing you, my friend. >> Thank you. >> All right. Okay, this is a wrap on day one. We'll be back tomorrow. I'll be solo. John Furrier had to fly out but we'll be following what he's doing. This is RE:INFORCE 2022. You're watching theCUBE. I'll see you tomorrow.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> After a two year hiatus, AWS re:Inforce is back on as an in-person event in Boston next week. Like the All-Star break in baseball, re:Inforce gives us an opportunity to evaluate the cyber security market overall, the state of cloud security and cross cloud security and more specifically what AWS is up to in the sector. Welcome to this week's Wikibon cube insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis we'll share our view of what's changed since our last cyber update in May. We'll look at the macro environment, how it's impacting cyber security plays in the market, what the ETR data tells us and what to expect at next week's AWS re:Inforce. We start this week with a checkpoint from Breaking Analysis contributor and stock trader Chip Simonton. We asked for his assessment of the market generally in cyber stocks specifically. So we'll summarize right here. We've kind of moved on from a narrative of the sky is falling to one where the glass is half empty you know, and before today's big selloff it was looking more and more like glass half full. The SNAP miss has dragged down many of the big names that comprise the major indices. You know, earning season as always brings heightened interest and this time we're seeing many cross currents. It starts as usual with the banks and the money centers. With the exception of JP Morgan the numbers were pretty good according to Simonton. Investment banks were not so great with Morgan and Goldman missing estimates but in general, pretty positive outlooks. But the market also shrugged off IBM's growth. And of course, social media because of SNAP is getting hammered today. The question is no longer recession or not but rather how deep the recession will be. And today's PMI data was the weakest since the start of the pandemic. Bond yields continue to weaken and there's a growing consensus that Fed tightening may be over after September as commodity prices weaken. Now gas prices of course are still high but they've come down. Tesla, Nokia and AT&T all indicated that supply issues were getting better which is also going to help with inflation. So it's no shock that the NASDAQ has done pretty well as beaten down as tech stocks started to look oversold you know, despite today's sell off. But AT&T and Verizon, they blamed their misses in part on people not paying their bills on time. SNAP's huge miss even after guiding lower and then refusing to offer future guidance took that stock down nearly 40% today and other social media stocks are off on sympathy. Meta and Google were off, you know, over 7% at midday. I think at one point hit 14% down and Google, Meta and Twitter have all said they're freezing new hires. So we're starting to see according to Simonton for the first time in a long time, the lower income, younger generation really feeling the pinch of inflation. Along of course with struggling families that have to choose food and shelter over discretionary spend. Now back to the NASDAQ for a moment. As we've been reporting back in mid-June and NASDAQ was off nearly 33% year to date and has since rallied. It's now down about 25% year to date as of midday today. But as I say, it had been, you know much deeper back in early June. But it's broken that downward trend that we talked about where the highs are actually lower and the lows are lower. That's started to change for now anyway. We'll see if it holds. But chip stocks, software stocks, and of course the cyber names have broken those down trends and have been trading above their 50 day moving averages for the first time in around four months. And again, according to Simonton, we'll see if that holds. If it does, that's a positive sign. Now remember on June 24th, we recorded a Breaking Analysis and talked about Qualcomm trading at a 12 X multiple with an implied 15% growth rate. On that day the stock was 124 and it surpassed 155 earlier this month. That was a really good call by Simonton. So looking at some of the cyber players here SailPoint is of course the anomaly with the Thoma Bravo 7 billion acquisition of the company holding that stock up. But the Bug ETF of basket of cyber stocks has definitely improved. When we last reported on cyber in May, CrowdStrike was off 23% year to date. It's now off 4%. Palo Alto has held steadily. Okta is still underperforming its peers as it works through the fallout from the breach and the ingestion of its Auth0 acquisition. Meanwhile, Zscaler and SentinelOne, those high flyers are still well off year to date, with Ping Identity and CyberArk not getting hit as hard as their valuations hadn't run up as much. But virtually all these tech stocks generally in cyber issues specifically, they've been breaking their down trend. So it will now come down to earnings guidance in the coming months. But the SNAP reaction is quite stunning. I mean, the environment is slowing, we know that. Ad spending gets cut in that type of market, we know that too. So it shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone but as Chip Simonton says, this shows that sellers are still in control here. So it's going to take a little while to work through that despite the positive signs that we're seeing. Okay. We also turned to our friend Eric Bradley from ETR who follows these markets quite closely. He frequently interviews CISOs on his program, on his round tables. So we asked to get his take and here's what ETR is saying. Again, as we've reported while CIOs and IT buyers have tempered spending expectations since December and early January when they called for an 8% plus spending growth, they're still expecting a six to seven percent uptick in spend this year. So that's pretty good. Security remains the number one priority and also is the highest ranked sector in the ETR data set when you measure in terms of pervasiveness in the study. Within security endpoint detection and extended detection and response along with identity and privileged account management are the sub-sectors with the most spending velocity. And when you exclude Microsoft which is just dominant across the board in so many sectors, CrowdStrike has taken over the number one spot in terms of spending momentum in ETR surveys with CyberArk and Tanium showing very strong as well. Okta has seen a big dropoff in net score from 54% last survey to 45% in July as customers maybe put a pause on new Okta adoptions. That clearly shows in the survey. We'll talk about that in a moment. Look Okta still elevated in terms of spending momentum, but it doesn't have the dominant leadership position it once held in spend velocity. Year on year, according to ETR, Tenable and Elastic are seeing the biggest jumps in spending momentum, with SailPoint, Tanium, Veronis, CrowdStrike and Zscaler seeing the biggest jump in new adoptions since the last survey. Now on the downside, SonicWall, Symantec, Trellic which is McAfee, Barracuda and TrendMicro are seeing the highest percentage of defections and replacements. Let's take a deeper look at what the ETR data tells us about the cybersecurity space. This is a popular view that we like to share with net score or spending momentum on the Y axis and overlap or pervasiveness in the data on the X axis. It's a measure of presence in the data set we used to call it market share. With the data, the dot positions, you see that little inserted table, that's how the dots are plotted. And it's important to note that this data is filtered for firms with at least 100 Ns in the survey. That's why some of the other ones that we mentioned might have dropped off. The red dotted line at 40% that indicates highly elevated spending momentum and there are several firms above that mark including of course, Microsoft, which is literally off the charts in both dimensions in the upper right. It's quite incredible actually. But for the rest of the pack, CrowdStrike has now taken back its number one net score position in the ETR survey. And CyberArk and Okta and Zscaler, CloudFlare and Auth0 now Okta through the acquisition, are all above the 40% mark. You can stare at the data at your leisure but I'll just point out, make three quick points. First Palo Alto continues to impress and as steady as she goes. Two, it's a very crowded market still and it's complicated space. And three there's lots of spending in different pockets. This market has too many tools and will continue to consolidate. Now I'd like to drill into a couple of firms net scores and pick out some of the pure plays that are leading the way. This series of charts shows the net score or spending velocity or granularity for Okta, CrowdStrike, Zscaler and CyberArk. Four of the top pure plays in the ETR survey that also have over a hundred responses. Now the colors represent the following. Bright red is defections. We're leaving the platform. The pink is we're spending less, meaning we're spending 6% or worse. The gray is flat spend plus or minus 5%. The forest green is spending more, i.e, 6% or more and the lime green is we're adding the platform new. That red dotted line at the 40% net score mark is the same elevated level that we like to talk about. All four are above that target. Now that blue line you see there is net score. The yellow line is pervasiveness in the data. The data shown in each bar goes back 10 surveys all the way back to January 2020. First I want to call out that all four again are seeing down trends in spending momentum with the whole market. That's that blue line. They're seeing that this quarter, again, the market is off overall. Everybody is kind of seeing that down trend for the most part. Very few exceptions. Okta is being hurt by fewer new additions which is why we highlighted in red, that red dotted area, that square that we put there in the upper right of that Okta bar. That lime green, new ads are off as well. And the gray for Okta, flat spending is noticeably up. So it feels like people are pausing a bit and taking a breather for Okta. And as we said earlier, perhaps with the breach earlier this year and the ingestion of Auth0 acquisition the company is seeing some friction in its business. Now, having said that, you can see Okta's yellow line or presence in the data set, continues to grow. So it's a good proxy from market presence. So Okta remains a leader in identity. So again, I'll let you stare at the data if you want at your leisure, but despite some concerns on declining momentum, notice this very little red at these companies when it comes to the ETR survey data. Now one more data slide which brings us to our four star cyber firms. We started a tradition a few years ago where we sorted the ETR data by net score. That's the left hand side of this graphic. And we sorted by shared end or presence in the data set. That's the right hand side. And again, we filtered by companies with at least 100 N and oh, by the way we've excluded Microsoft just to level the playing field. The red dotted line signifies the top 10. If a company cracks the top 10 in both spending momentum and presence, we give them four stars. So Palo Alto, CrowdStrike, Okta, Fortinet and Zscaler all made the cut this time. Now, as we pointed out in May if you combined Auth0 with Okta, they jumped to the number two on the right hand chart in terms of presence. And they would lead the pure plays there although it would bring down Okta's net score somewhat, as you can see, Auth0's net score is lower than Okta's. So when you combine them it would drag that down a little bit but it would give them bigger presence in the data set. Now, the other point we'll make is that Proofpoint and Splunk both dropped off the four star list this time as they both saw marked declines in net score or spending velocity. They both got four stars last quarter. Okay. We're going to close on what to expect at re:Inforce this coming week. Re:Inforce, if you don't know, is AWS's security event. They first held it in Boston back in 2019. It's dedicated to cloud security. The past two years has been virtual and they announced that reinvent that it would take place in Houston in June, which everybody said, that's crazy. Who wants to go to Houston in June and turns out nobody did so they postponed the event, thankfully. And so now they're back in Boston, starting on Monday. Not that it's going to be much cooler in Boston. Anyway, Steven Schmidt had been the face of AWS security at all these previous events as the Chief Information Security Officer. Now he's dropped the I from his title and is now the Chief Security Officer at Amazon. So he went with Jesse to the mothership. Presumably he dropped the I because he deals with physical security now too, like at the warehouses. Not that he didn't have to worry about physical security at the AWS data centers. I don't know. Anyway, he and CJ Moses who is now the new CISO at AWS will be keynoting along with some others including MongoDB's Chief Information Security Officer. So that should be interesting. Now, if you've been following AWS you'll know they like to break things down into, you know, a couple of security categories. Identity, detection and response, data protection slash privacy slash GRC which is governance, risk and compliance, and we would expect a lot more talk this year on container security. So you're going to hear also product updates and they like to talk about how they're adding value to services and try to help, they try to help customers understand how to apply services. Things like GuardDuty, which is their threat detection that has machine learning in it. They'll talk about Security Hub, which centralizes views and alerts and automates security checks. They have a service called Detective which does root cause analysis, and they have tools to mitigate denial of service attacks. And they'll talk about security in Nitro which isolates a lot of the hardware resources. This whole idea of, you know, confidential computing which is, you know, AWS will point out it's kind of become a buzzword. They take it really seriously. I think others do as well, like Arm. We've talked about that on previous Breaking Analysis. And again, you're going to hear something on container security because it's the hottest thing going right now and because AWS really still serves developers and really that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to enable developers to design security in but you're also going to hear a lot of best practice advice from AWS i.e, they'll share the AWS dogfooding playbooks with you for their own security practices. AWS like all good security practitioners, understand that the keys to a successful security strategy and implementation don't start with the technology, rather they're about the methods and practices that you apply to solve security threats and a top to bottom cultural approach to security awareness, designing security into systems, that's really where the developers come in, and training for continuous improvements. So you're going to get heavy doses of really strong best practices and guidance and you know, some good preaching. You're also going to hear and see a lot of partners. They'll be very visible at re:Inforce. AWS is all about ecosystem enablement and AWS is going to host close to a hundred security partners at the event. This is key because AWS doesn't do it all. Interestingly, they don't even show up in the ETR security taxonomy, right? They just sort of imply that it's built in there even though they have a lot of security tooling. So they have to apply the shared responsibility model not only with customers but partners as well. They need an ecosystem to fill gaps and provide deeper problem solving with more mature and deeper security tooling. And you're going to hear a lot of positivity around how great cloud security is and how it can be done well. But the truth is this stuff is still incredibly complicated and challenging for CISOs and practitioners who are understaffed when it comes to top talent. Now, finally, theCUBE will be at re:Inforce in force. John Furry and I will be hosting two days of broadcast so please do stop by if you're in Boston and say hello. We'll have a little chat, we'll share some data and we'll share our overall impressions of the event, the market, what we're seeing, what we're learning, what we're worried about in this dynamic space. Okay. That's it for today. Thanks for watching. Thanks to Alex Myerson, who is on production and manages the podcast. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight, they helped get the word out on social and in our newsletters and Rob Hoff is our Editor in Chief over at siliconangle.com. You did some great editing. Thank you all. Remember all these episodes they're available, this podcast. Wherever you listen, all you do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can get in touch with me by emailing avid.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @dvellante, or comment on my LinkedIn post and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching and we'll see you in Boston next week if you're there or next time on Breaking Analysis (soft music)

>>Hey, everyone, welcome back to the cubes on the ground. Coverage of Pedro Duty Summit 22. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm very excited to be joined by Manjula Toleration, the S VP and chief customer officer at page duty. Welcome to the programme. >>Thank you, Lisa. It's great to have chatted with you this morning as well, >>isn't it? I have had the great fortune of watching her fireside chat. That Mandela did, um, with is the logic monitor that was >>she of logic. >>And I thought, She's got great energy. We're gonna have a great conversation. So let's talk about the customer experience these days. One of the things I think that's been very, very short supply in the pandemic is patience. I know it's been in short supply with me and, of course, in our consumer lives in our business lives. The customer experience, though, has been something that every company needs to really pin their businesses on. Because if it's not a good customer experience, that customer goes right to social media. They churn. They leave, but they take others down with them. Talk to me about how the customer experience fits into this year's summit. Especially for this, we have to be ready for everything in a digital world environment. >>I love this question, and I reason I love this question is I even look at my own behaviour. But before we get into that, let's talk about data. I'm just reading an article. Mackenzie did a survey. Did you know that from pre covid to today customer interactions that have moved to digital are from 41% to 65%? That's exponential. That's huge. And guess what? We've all got impatient. You become like our kids, and I think about myself as an individual. If I need tied right now to do my laundry, I need it right now. So if I go to Costco website to order it so that it can get delivered in the next hour, and even if there's a second glitch on it, I'll swap over to Amazon and I'll swap over to target. That's what's happening in real world, whether it be to see or it's b to B, and why is it important to the points we are making in terms of ready for anything in the world of digital everything. It's important because customers are impatient. It's a digital world. I don't walk into the store to do any interactions anymore. And the reality of all of this is it's grounded on trust. Customers have to trust you and the window of choice not only in the B two b, but a lot in the enterprise and the B to B world. It's about trust, right? And what does pager duty do? Pager duty is at the heart of this pager. Duty is at the heart of making every second matter, and every second is equal to money. Absolutely. And it's about customer experience. And it isn't about just the experience where of an employee who may not sleep at night because they got a disruption due to an incident which is also super important during the mass resignation. But it is also about the CEO agenda and the boardroom, because how our CEO s driving customer trust in order to keep customers and drive this new era of digital everything as digital transformation is occurring. Well, >>I know patriarchy was doing that. I had the chance to watch um, CEO Jennifer to, uh, fireside chat, her keynote, and then her fireside chat with the CEO of Doc, You Sign And you. The Storey was very bidirectional, very symbiotic in terms of the trust that he has in Houston and Austin has and Pedro duty. But talk to me as the chief customer officer. What is it that's unique about how patriarchy works with its customers? 21,000 plus now to build and maintain that trust, especially in such volatile times? >>You know what is really cool? I joined page duty a little less than two years ago. In the next few days, it'll be two years now. What do I find exciting as a chief customer officer and the go to market teams differentiation versus other customers? We had a born SAS company and what do we have access to form our customers? We have access to their operations data and that combination of our core values that is championing the customer and the data science that we have about how customers are using our data is a differentiation. That's the magic. So if you think about why pager duty is bringing this level of trust to the customers, it's because we know how many and let's take an example. Employee retention, mass resignation. We know which employee was called. How many times at night during an outage. Can we give that guidance to managers and leaders in order to drive that trust? Absolutely. And on the other hand, we are driving amazing return on investment at the executive levels for the customer experience that they are driving. So Peter Duty is becoming the trusted advisor all the way from practitioners, where we are improving their work life balance to the executive levels, >>improving work. Life balance is so critical. There was a stat that Sean Scott shared this morning that that was looking at the amount of work volume from 2020 compared to 2021 42% of people said, I am working more hours. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, Can I work more? Please? No. That work life balance is critical, but also the ability to deliver that seamless digital customer experience that we all expect, Um, and and to get it right the first time is critical. But using that customer data as you're saying, empowering the organisations, not just the customer support folks or the SRS or the develops folks but all the way up to the C suite to ensure that their brand reputation is valuable, it's maintained, and that trust is really bidirectional. That's the secret sauce. >>You're absolutely right. You know, there's a different dimension to this as well. We think about how we're using customer data in order to achieve the results. We want three vectors here. Number one is we'll use customer data to really understand what is best in class on up time. What is the best in class to reduce noise during alert, what is best in best in class for customer service operations? And because we have customer data, we can benchmark we can benchmark. What industry? What's happening in the financial services industry? What's happening in the technology industry? What's happening in the retail industry. Our customers love that, so we will share with them. The customer success organisation, especially the customer success managers, will go in and meet with the customers and say This is where you stand in reference to your peers and customers love here about that. This is the differentiated value proposition, right? The second thing that our customer success managers do is share with the customers This is where you are in reference to your peers in your vertical other vertical. But let me tell you how you can improve your deployment, the performance of our technology and you're all operating model. As a result of the data we've got, >>there's the proactive nous. That's another differentiator of of what I was hearing today from pager duty. That you're enabling those CSM is to be proactive when so often many are reactive, and it's the customer that's found the problem first. >>Yes, I'll even talk more about the reactive to proactive. We build a methodology, and I'm sure Shaun Scott covered it as well, which is a maturity curve moving from reactive to proactive because so many of our customers are saying we are reacting when we have a disruption on our digital platform, but 30% of the times we are hearing from customers before we are hearing from ourselves. So how do we become proactive? And how does that data signs actually start showing the signs when a potential disruption could occur? And that is about moving reactive to overall proactive. I'd also like to add one more dimension to this, you know, when customers are doing really well. They're optimised on our platform. They don't want to hear from our post sales organisation all the time. They want a human touch when they need it. They want a digital touch when they need it. By using our data and our data science, we are becoming one of the best world class customer success organisations in the world and you ask why? The reason is because we are using data science in order to build and we have built the early warning system. The early warning system tells us how every single of our customers is doing in terms of both their growth as well as the risk that they may leave us. So if a customer is very healthy on a scale of 1 200 if we have a healthy customer, we will engage with them potentially just digitally and engage with them with our services are customer success team and our entire post sales organisation, when there is an optimisation and when they really need us. So data scientists being used not only in terms of giving customer the right information to grow them, but how we interact with them as well, >>that's brilliant. And there's so many organisations that I talked to across industries that cannot get that right. >>And >>so customers are being contacted too frequently. They may have said. I opted out, I don't want and then suddenly that that the first responders, the incident responders, is marketing. But that happens so frequently, you think. But there's an opportunity there. It's not rocket science, but it's about leveraging that data in an optimal, smart way. But you guys are light years ahead of a lot of other companies that haven't figured that >>out. No, we are leading edge and we are leading edge because we had a born SAS company and we've got effective operations data of the customer, and we have some of the best data scientists and the analysts within my organisation. Looking at this, engaging with the customer and only optimising the magic is data science and humans coming together to engage with customers and drive customer success for the customer and ultimately building their customer experience for their customers. >>Let's talk about some of the numbers Mandela, because they are really impressive. I was looking at some stats. You're paid your duties renewal rates are over 95%. Your growth is incredible, just coming off the biggest quarter ever, but also the gross annual benefit from customers. Talk to me about that alone. That can be up to $10 million. These read these tangible business outcomes that pager duty is delivering to customers are significant, >>and again, it's based on data science. This is not making you know what traditional companies do. Traditional companies will go to the customer and say, Tell me your business imperatives. Tell me your what are the business problems you're solving are because we have the data science. We have our oi arranging from 309 100% very impressive within a couple of months. We think about it if we are able to drive incidents that are very, very significant. And I know you've got the numbers in terms of growing our reducing the workload on very expensive engineering. Uh, individuals within the organisation from, I believe, 3200 and 25,000, and I know you have those numbers think about If 30% of your organisation focuses just on innovation and product development, worse is on an incident, and they work, life balance, the quality of life increases, the retention of the employees, and yet the company's only driving their growth. That is why our customers love us. That is why our renewal rates are greater than 95%. That's why a net retention scores are greater than 100 and 2020% over five quarters. And that is why we have more than 30% growth year over year, quarter over quarter. >>When I saw that stat Manville about you know, the number of incidents reduced, >>that >>translates to employee productivity and and looking at it in terms of FTE. From a quantity perspective, that's the first time I've seen a company and I interview a lot of companies actually put it in that perspective, and I thought, That is huge. That's how organisations should be talking about that rather than reducing feeds are going. We are victims of the great resignation is look at the impact that can be made here by using data science by using the right mix of human and automation together. It's that's the first time. So congratulations to you and Pedro duty for the first time I've seen that and I think everybody needs to be working to be able to explain it that way, especially the fact that we're still in a volatile environment. >>Absolutely. It's about customer experience, but it is just as much employee experience. There is so much that the industry is talking about. That's top of mind for board levels. That's top of mind from CEO S. How do I retain my employees and drive greater operational efficiency? And now, with the macro economic challenges that are occurring in terms of inflation and in and the cost to serve and increasing the profits are customers are making. Operational efficiency is becoming even more important so that the employees are focusing more on innovation rather than downtime or disruptions. And it's actually about growing the business rather than just running the business. And if we can optimise running the business growth is what our customers are looking >>for, right? I always think, and we're almost out of time here. But I always think the employee experience and the customer experience are like this, and they should be. But it's critical to optimise both. How do you when you talk to some of those big and our price customers. We have Doc Watson on the main stage this morning, but I was looking at the website and three that jumped out to me that I use peloton, salesforce and slack. How do you advise them? You have this wealthiest gold of information on customers. This is how you need to leverage it in the right way to grow your business. What are some of the top three things you recommend those customers do, for example, >>that so let me talk about a couple of customers as an example. There are some customers of ours in the retail business, or it is a telecommunication company that is trying to increase their, um, up time from 98.7% to 3 nines as an example, or a tech company that doesn't even know that they were down for six hours in one small part of their business. And we're trying to figure out how do we solve for that as customers are overall complaining. So for us as a organisation, the magic is again bringing data together employee engagement, and what we do is we use the data to engage with their customers to ultimately understand what is their business value proposition. If you don't do it in isolation, you do it in. What is the customer trying to achieve? Are they trying to achieve the best in class website? Are they trying to achieve increased operational efficiency? What are their metrics? What are their numbers? And we take our data, our people, to marry all of that together. And that's the magic. >>I love it. I wish we had more time. Angela. We are out of time but talking about the value of the customer experience, the impact that is possible to be made leveraging technologies like pager duty. It's It's revolutionising operations. It's revolutionising customers 21,000 plus one million plus users at a time. It's awesome. You have to come back so we can talk more because I can. No, we're just scratching the surface here. >>Yes, we are. This is a very, very exciting area right now, and it is a great opportunities for chief customer officers on really rallying the whole company on championing the customers because whether it's a product, our capabilities, it's really a major transformation happening in the in the industry, and we need to stay very close to it? >>Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. I look forward to seeing you again. >>Real pleasure, Lisa, To get to know you. And the gun was she was awesome. >>Good. Thank you for Manjula. Televisa. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes on the ground. Coverage of pager duty. Summit 22 from San Francisco. Thanks for watching. And bye for now. Mm mm. Mm mm.

(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. This is theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, my host Lisa Martin here, with some keynote guests who are on the big stage here at re:Invent, Linda Jojo, Chief Digital Officer at United Airlines. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey, great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So up on the big stage, big transformation story in front of 27,000 people, on the virginity, >> Linda: That many? >> that's the number, >> It's a big room >> pretty small for Amazon web services, nearly 60,000, but you know, pandemic and all but great presentation. What was the, what was the transformation story for United? >> Well, I think there's two parts of the story. One is just how fast everything happened, you know. February of 2020, we're having a kickoff meeting with AWS about how we're going to really transform the airline and a month later the world shut down. And so it changed, we went from thinking about the future to really just trying to make it through the next few weeks. But as soon as that happened, we knew that we had to take advantage of the crisis and think about everything from what can we do with our onboard products, we've changed out a lot of things about our airplanes, we've doubled down on sustainability. We're really focused on the diversity of our workforce, but also we really said, what can we do about transforming our technology? And that's where AWS came in because one of the silver linings for our tech team was that we didn't always have a plane in the air. And so when that happens, we had no time to make a change and back it out, if it doesn't work or heaven forbid have an outage. We a little bit longer. So we got aggressive and we made a lot of changes and made a lot of move to AWS Cloud. >> Talk to me a little bit about the cultural shift involved. I mean, you talked about, you know, everybody was just scrambling. >> Yeah. So quickly, there was this instant, what do we do? How do we pivot? How do we survive mode? But from a cultural perspective, it sounds like you took, you leveraged the situation to be able to make a lot of improvements across the United, but culturally that's, that's challenging to get all those folks on board at the same time. How did you facilitate that? >> Well, you know what, the story I'm going to tell isn't all just about me. It's about the incredible team that we have, but you know, folks got focused and Amazon talks about having a two pizza team about how if your team should be no bigger than what can be fed by two pizzas, and that really keeps the decision-making streamlined and fast. For us since we were now all working from home, we called it a one screen team. And so the idea was no more than a number of people that could fit on that video call was the idea. So that was the number of people that we had on our teams. We branded them even call them scrappy teams, which was really kind of fun. And those are the groups that just kind of got their job done. And you know, the first part of their job was every week or every day it seemed like we were getting new rules from the U.S government about what countries you couldn't fly to. And it was chaotic. It was confusing for customers and frankly, our, that one screen team, they were up like every night making modifications to who could check in online and who couldn't. And we said when it's time to open back up, we can't, we got to do this better. And so that group came up with something we now call the Travel-Ready Center. Which is really pretty incredible. What you can do now is first of all, when you book your flight, we'll tell you what you need to fly. You need this type of a COVID test, this many days in advance. This is what fully vaccinated means in the country you're going to. And so this was the kind of vaccine card we need to see. You upload it all. We use Amazon SageMaker and we have machine learning models that actually now will within seven seconds validate that you're ready to fly. And what that means is just like always, you can get your boarding pass before you get to the airport. Now, if you guys travel a lot, I hope you still do, >> Yeah. what that means is that you can actually bypass the lobby of the airport and all the document checking that's going on because your travel ready. So customers love it. Gate agents love it too, because gate agents, the rules are changing so fast. They don't, you know, and they work the flight to Tel Aviv one day and the flight to Paris the next and the rules are different. And maybe in between, they changed. So having the software actually figured that out is what helps. >> So very dynamic and new innovations popped out of this pandemic. What else did Amazon help you with? Was there other Amazon innovations that you guys gravitated to SageMaker was one, what were some of the other? >> Yeah. You know, honestly, the team uses a lot of the tools and a lot of different ways. I would say the other big one was DynamoDB, and some of the things that we did to actually migrate some of our core systems to Amazon and actually, you know, instead of making phoning home to data centers all the time, we're now going right to the Cloud and getting some, some really great performance out of that. >> And, and, and the travel thing that you guys did that was came out of the innovation from the teams. >> Yeah. >> is there any other, other examples that popped out from you guys? >> Yeah. Well, I think another one is something that we call Agent on Demand. Agent on Demand is where you used it when you had to talk to an agent in the airport, you'd go get in line somewhere. And sometimes it was a long line, right? Because there's only two people there. And so the first thing we did was we made sure the technologies they used worked on a phone or an iPad. So now we weren't limited by the number of, of stations at the gate. The next thing we is that we made it QR code enabled. And now what customers can do is they can scan the QR code and they get a live agent, like a FaceTime call on their, on their phone. They can do it from anywhere from their seat at the gate or in line for a coffee, and they can solve their problem right there. And those agents, by the way, now maybe there's a snowstorm going on in Chicago, but the agents are in Houston where it's sunny. And so we can actually leverage the fact that those agents are there to help our customers. >> So you've got the user experience, you did some innovation. How about the operational things, I noticed when I traveled the United, the packaging's different ,the greetings are different. I get why all these operational impacts happened to the whole supply chain.(laughing) >> Yeah. Well, you know, the technology's great, but what makes you remember United are the people that you're going to interact with. And so we really focused on service for our, for our employees. And how do we give them information in the palm of their hand to, to treat you in a very personal way. We know that you flew last week and where you went. We know that you just made a million miles. And so we can give that information to our flight attendant and they can provide a really great experience. >> That experience is key. These days. One of the things that's been in short supply, during the pandemic is patience. And obviously you guys have to be very cognizant of that with some of the things that have happened across all the airlines and passengers not having the patience that they normally would have. >> Oh yeah. That is a real kudos to our flight attendants. And what we did with them, you know, wearing a mask is required on the aircraft and, you know, some folks don't like to be told what to do anywhere, right? And so people don't like that. Our flight attendants learned how to deescalate the situation and deal with it on the ground. So it's very simple. If you're not wearing a mask, flight attendant asked you nicely, you still don't put your mask on. They just give you a little card that says, by the way, if you don't put your mask on, this is going to be your last United flight. And the vast majority of customers put their masks on. So we have not seen some of that level of stress that's happened on some of other, other airlines. >> That's key. Cause it's been pretty rampant. But the fact that you're, you're making things much more accessible. And in real time, I think another thing we learned during the pandemic is that real time is no longer a nice to have. It's essential. We have this expectation as consumers, whether we're flying or we're buying something from an online retailer that we're going to be able to get whatever we want in the palm of our hand. >> Yeah. Well, you know what we like to say, we're very proud of our mobile app. We're very proud of it. But we like to say that are not comparing our mobile app to another airline mobile app. You're, you're comparing it to the last app you probably used. And that might've been the Amazon app. So we have to be as good as the Amazon app, but we have a lot of legacy technology behind it. And so we have really focused on that. >> Good, I want to ask you cause you're a Chief Digital Officer, because this comes up in a lot of our CUBE conversations and around the digital side is that obviously with the virtual now hybrid things, new innovations have happened. So I have to ask you what's changed for the better that's going to be around and what might not be around that you've learned from the pandemic, because these new things are emerging. New standards, new protocols, new digital experiences. What have you learned that's going to stay around and what kind of went away? >> Yeah. >> Well, I think nothing tells you about how important your customers are if you're standing in the middle of O'Hare and not seeing any. And that's what happened in April of 2020, when we actually, there was a day that year, that month that we had more pilots than passengers. It was just, you know, so you realize it's really all about the customer. And what we have to do is make sure that customers choose us. There might be less reasons to fly to certain places all the time, but when you do fly, we want you to pick United. And so it's got to be more than just where we fly. It's got to be the experiences you have with the people. And we have to use the technology to make it easier. I mean, Touchless, wasn't really a thing. QR codes are back. I mean, they were gone, right. And we have QR codes on everything now. Cause you want to get through that airport without having to touch anything, and you do that with your mobile app. >> Yeah. Great innovations. >> It is a great innovation. That contact list is key. You talk about QR cuts coming back. And just some of the things that we've, that we've, some of the silver linings and frankly there have been some the last 22 months or so, but being able to have that experience, that's tailored to me as a consumer. >> Right. I don't need to know what's under the hood enabling it. I just know I want to be able to make transactions or find whatever I need to in the palm of my hand, 24/7. >> Yeah. And you know, for airlines, it usually comes back to something went wrong and frankly, there's always something that going quite right. There's a, there's a weather delay somewhere or maybe your bag didn't get on the same flight you did. And so we want to give you transparency in that and control over what you can do. And so how make it, make it easier to rebook, make you understand what the situation is, be very transparent about it. And we even have something called Connection Saver. And what we do with that is we actually use real time data analytics. And what we do is we say, there's a person that's arriving late. And then we say with real-time weather, real-time connection data. We say, can we hold that flight for Lisa? And we, and we, yeah.(laughing) The worst thing is when that door closed, you run all the way through the airport and they closed the door. Right? We don't want to do, gate agents don't like doing that either. And so we use calculations that say, you know, the wind is blowing in the right direction. The pilots can make up the time. There isn't anybody on the other side, that's going to miss a connection. And so about 2000 times a day, we hold a connection for our customer. >> That's key. If you missed, sometimes just stay overnight. If you miss that connection. >> Especially on the last flight of the day we'll be, we'll be very generous because that doesn't do anybody any good. >> Well, great, great story. I love the keynote, Cloud has changed. I have to ask you this year at re:Invent, what's your observation on the Cloud as the cloud continues to expand, as Adam is talking about, how do you guys see the Cloud evolving for United? >> Well, you know, I, I think what's really impressive here is everybody is coming from every industry. It's not one or two industries that are here, are early adopters in the industry. It really is what you have to do to survive. But I probably would be remiss not to say that, which was really great was that there were two women on the, on the keynote stage and two men. So we were at 50 50 now there are 51% women in the world, but we'll take it. And I, in all seriousness, I do think that there is, there's a lot more diversity here and I think that's good. Not just for AWS. That's good for everybody. >> I couldn't agree more. That was one of the first things I noticed this morning when you took the keynote stage was a strong female leader before you even started telling the story. And that's something from an optics perspective. I know that Amazon is really keen on, but it's nice to hear from your perspective as well that there's, there's that diversity. There's also that thought diversity when you have different perspectives come into play because there's so many dynamics going on these days. But I have to ask you one question. We know we talked to, we, we, we talk about every company, these days being a data company, being a digital company needing to be, to be competitive. >> Right. Do you think of United, should, should we be thinking about United as a digital first company? >> Well, we, we, we connect people, right? And so we are physically moving people from one destination to another and they really want to get there. So we're not going to always be digital, but I would tell you that I often speak with our Chief Customer Officer and our Chief Operating Officer. And it's really hard for us to talk about anything without talking about technology or how it impacts the operation or how it impacts our customer. It's really, really meshing together for sure. >> Great stuff, Linda, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. United Airlines, Chief Digital Officer on the main stage here at re:Invent and now on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the tech leader in event coverage. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(light music) >> Welcome to this session at the Amazon EC2 15th birthday event. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm joined by Elaine Harvey, director and technical advisor at AWS. Elaine, welcome to the program. It's great to see you. >> Thank you, Lisa. I'm really glad to be here. >> So here we are celebrating EC2's 15th birthday, probably back in the day, so many customers and many industries couldn't imagine how they would be using the service. Talk to me about how long you've been involved in EC2 and some of the growth and the maturation of the service that you've seen. >> Yeah, I mean, I joined EC2 about eight years ago and it was big then, but much smaller than it is now. And it's grown in so many directions, both in the scale, the instances that we offer, as well as the types of instances, the various types of hardware effectively that we offer for customers to support their workload. It's just grown in so many dimensions. It's really exciting. >> I see here 80 availability zones. 25 regions, local zones in Boston, Dallas, Denver, Houston, Miami, Philadelphia, and nine new locals zones coming just this year. Talk to me a little bit about that. >> So really, what we are trying to do is get compute where customers needed. So we've already had these presences around the world. And with this expansion, we're trying to bring the EC2 offering to customers with much lower latency. And that's why we're doing local zones, regions, availability zones in so many places. So customers can have that compute with low latency to help them interact with their customers. >> I know since its inception, AWS has always been so customer centric, it's always day one there, but prior to joining AWS, as you said, eight years ago, you were involved in a number of startups. One of the things that we consistently hear is how instrumental EC2 has been in reinventing the startup space. What can you tell me about that involvement that it's had? >> Yeah, I mean, the great thing was, I was an EC2 customer before I worked at EC2. So I had been in the startup community for almost 25 years before joining Amazon. And I had been through that life cycle of a startup where you begin, you need some capacity, you need some computers to run your stuff on and eventually you reach a size and you have to go figure out all the hard work. Where am I going to put them? Do I need a data center? What kind of network connectivity do I need? And not only that, you have to invest a lot of money, which startups very rarely have in the early days into buying the equipment you need, just so you could run your business. Do the thing you're really trying to do for your customer. EC2 is a game changer. So I started using EC2 at one of the startups I was at before coming here. Actually I had two prior startups before coming to EC2. And the ability to just get capacity when you needed it, you didn't have to go buy computers. You didn't have to have data center contracts. You just said, I need a hundred of these. And suddenly you had a hundred of the instance you were asking for, completely game changing, especially for a startup where you just don't have that capital to invest. And frankly, you don't want to spend your time dealing with data centers when that's not your business, your business is to serve your customers. >> And I can't imagine the last year and a half, we've seen such acceleration of digital business transformation, how startups and enterprises alike would have fared without having the ability to quickly turn on services like EC2 in this time. >> Yeah, yeah. It was just amazing. During COVID times, we definitely saw that rush of everybody trying to go online companies that had been already starting down that path, going online, scaling more. And suddenly it went from zero to 100 in March and everybody had to go online and it was super exciting to be part of EC2 and be able to enable everybody in the world to do that. >> Incredible amount of acceleration, but also maturation and growth in the whole portfolio of AWS. We've talked about that a number of times on The Cube in the last six or eight months or so, you mentioned nine new availability zones coming in 2021. You've been involved in the regional and the local zone build out. Talk to me about how these regional zones, these availability zones are helping enterprises to run their businesses and applications worldwide with the high availability that their customers are demanding. >> Yeah, yeah. So there's the book the location aspect. So we do need to be worldwide because our customers are worldwide. So we need to be where they need to be. And so that's how we think about the growth of our regions and availability zones and now local zones with lower latency to end customers. There's another aspect to availability zones and regions that is super important for our customers availability, foundationally we treat those as fault zones. So their fault boundaries beyond which customers will not experience faults. So for example, the fundamental way that we think about designing our services isolates faults between regions and between availability zones and customers can use that in their designs such that they'll have a Multi AZ behavior and we contain faults along those boundaries so they can design with that in mind, and their applications can be fault tolerant, relying on those foundational fault domains effectively. >> That's even becoming more and more important as consumers become more and more demanding that services are just available. And you can get anything with the click of a link on your phone. That high availability is really no longer a nice to have what EC2 is delivering, it's table stakes for an organization I can imagine in any industry. >> Absolutely, absolutely. Our customers totally rely on that so that they can serve their customers consistently and reliably. >> It's a tremendous amount of growth Elaine, in the first 15 years, you said you've been with EC2 on this side now working for it for eight years, but had a lot of experience with it before when it was probably in its infancy as a startup customer. What are some of the things that excite you most about the direction in which EC2 is going? >> Yeah, I think we are steadily providing more and more flexibility to our customers. So we are providing them with new instance types to suit their particular workloads. So we're getting more into a variety of offerings that customers can use to achieve the outcomes they want. That's exciting. I think probably the thing that excites me the most though, is the work we're doing around custom silicon. So our Graviton, Inferentia, Trainium chips where we are building custom silicon for a number of reasons. A big factor of that is we are giving our customers the ability to have a much better ROI on compute to cost for their workload. So we're trying to make it more and more cost efficient for our customers to do what they want. The thing that really excites me about it, though, I'll tell you the secret thing that excites me about it is not very well known, but Graviton is not only cost to compute higher efficiency, but it is also power to compute higher efficiency. So it's a greener option. So if a customer for a given workload wanted to reduce their carbon footprint, they can move to Graviton and it consumes substantially less power for the same workload. And that makes me really excited. >> That is exciting and something that I think everybody can wrap their heads around. I was reading something about EC2 and Graviton paving the way for another important initiative, and that's telecommunications, some of the big news, that Dish Network is coming out saying we're going to be building our 5g core network on AWS. A lot of work going on there in telecommunications. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's very exciting. And in line with our overall strategy to get much closer to the end customers, again, to reduce that latency, whether those customers are on a 5g network or on the internet, what we want the ability for our customers to be able to provide compute and their applications wherever their customers are. >> Well Elaine, thank you so much for joining me on the EC2 15th birthday event. A lot of innovation has gone on in the first 15 years. We know what you're excited about and I'm sure, can't even imagine what the next five, 10 or 15 years will hold for EC2, its services and the customers that it delights. We thank you for joining us today. >> Thanks so much, Lisa. >> Elaine Harvey, I Lisa Martin, thanks for watching today's session. (light music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to today's session at the 2021, AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards, for the award for the best, Think Big for Small Business Partner. I'm your host Natalie Erlich, and we are now joined by our very special guest, Lisa Brunet, a managing Partner and President of the DLZP Group. Welcome to today's session. Now, I'd love to talk with you about how you got to partner with AWS. >> Sure, I think Natalie, thank you so much for your time today. So we started a journey with AWS back in 2012, we ran into an AWS rep at another conference, and he was talking about how he would love to do some innovative technology, because one of my reps were actually wearing gold glass, and he's like, I need something creative, I need something different. Because right now AWS, Amazon is just known for selling online books, while the cloud is only known for storing photos. So we spent a little bit of time working with them, and we came up with this idea of doing creating the test drive, where people could actually go and try a different product, like we actually did PeopleSoft on AWS. So we were able to prove that large ERP applications could run on the cloud. And that was actually faster and more resilient than having it on premise, and from there, it's been a whirlwind journey with AWS. >> Now terrific, well, how does TBSP open doors for companies and help them understand all of the tools available to them through AWS, as well as APN. >> With the Think Big for Small Business program, what it does, it gives us the opportunity to play with the big guys. So a lot of small businesses have the capabilities, they're very agile, and they have the connections, they have the capabilities. But because of our size, we have limitations on getting the number of certifications, getting the network competencies. So with this program, it evens the playing field for everybody. So now I'm able to like... I've been turned away projects because of my size, because they're like, well you're not certified by AWS at this level. But now I'm at the same level, as some of my some of the larger primes, and I'm able to compete with them head to head now. >> So has this kind of like democratizing effect. >> Yes, it does. >> Terrific. Well, to expand a bit more on how, the Think Big program has helped us overcome other kind of obstacles. >> For us, a big obstacle was always with the competencies and the certifications. So before, we would never eligible to get a competency, even though we were the ones that proved that PeopleSoft could run on the clouds. So we had the competency for Oracle Applications, we had the competency from Microsoft, but we could never, we're never eligible to actually get the competency because we were not advanced partner. And then also with the training, we were always being hindered, because we couldn't get all the discounts available at a certain level for the trading, so we had to pay full retail price. Now we get a discount, so I can send everybody for training to make sure that everybody is up to date on their certifications. >> And how do you assess your experience as an AWS partner? >> I love it, I love being an AWS partner, and that's I think what really makes the difference is the employees at AWS, they stand by us for everything. We know, of course we do give a lot of benefits to them, but anytime I have a need, I have everybody's number, I can reach out to anybody on their team and say, I need assistance with this, I'm looking to try to accomplish this, and they'll do anything they can to help us. >> And do you have any advice for other companies who might be interested in moving in that direction as well. >> For any small business, I think that Think Big for Small Business program is a great idea, just as long as you're willing to put the hard work in, and you can prove to AWS that you're willing to work hard, they'll reciprocate and work with you to create this great, to make you a great partner. >> And I'd love to hear more about your company, DLZP Group, tell us about your core market. >> So we actually were split between three different main markets. We try to be equal between public sector, private sector and federal. We are just starting our federal journey. We recently became AA certified, so we're looking to expand in the federal journey, but for us, we try to make sure that we are, we don't have too strong, we don't have more than like 33% of our income coming from any one sector, just because if there's a crisis like with the federal, when they shut down for six months, I don't want to have to layoff my employees, I value my employees too much have to say, I'm sorry, I have to lay you off. So we made sure we're resilient, and we're able to handle any customer at any given time. >> Well, let's talk about resilience, I mean, how do you ensure that you're resilient? Obviously, you've had some really tough time, in the last year or so with a pandemic, I mean, what's your advice for companies that are looking to become even more resilient in the years ahead? >> For us, I think a big thing is we've always worked hard to make sure that we offer a quality product for our customers. So that really helped us on the downtime's. When everybody was struggling, keep the doors open, our customers stood by us, because we've had a proven track record to make sure that we offer them the best solution, were there for them when they need us. So they came to rely on us and they would use this with during the past year during the pandemic. >> And if you could outline just in further detail your business model for our viewers. >> So we actually are 100% remote, and I have staff around the world. We purposely, strategically, like have everybody around the world, because some of our customers are global. We have to offer 24/7 support for them, especially nowadays. But another part was because of disaster recovery. I'm based in Houston, Texas. So we're known for getting hurricanes, that means sometimes I can be without power for three weeks. But I don't want that to affect my customers, I don't want them to feel that they can't come to us, but knowing that if a hurricane comes through, I might know my employees are going to be able to work. So we made sure that we have a great disaster recovery plan, we have where no matter what happens, manmade or natural disaster, we're able to support our customers, without any with any without a pause. And then we also make sure that all of our employees, they have a quality work life balance, and I think that also helps because that shows the clients, that we value our employees, and it makes them want to work with us more, because our employees are happy, they're happy to work with us, because they know that well (crackling drowns out speaker) >> And describe to us in greater detail, the core technology and its key benefits. >> Well, a lot we do is around AWS. So, when we first started with them, as I mentioned, we started with them with the test drive and ERP applications, but then we expanded our services, we started working with serverless, when we first heard about serverless, we were like this is a game changer. We can do almost anything on serverless and save so much money. So we years ago, we went and built our website, so it's 100% serverless. So it costs us a couple pennies a month to run, versus if you think about a traditional website, that's a couple hundred dollars a month to run, and then we started playing with machine learning. So we're now developing internal projects, where we're using machine learning for a number of applications, and we're going to keep expanding, where we're going to have a full suite of applications to give to our customers that will be run at 100% serverless using machine learning. >> Yeah, really terrific. What are your goals for the next year? What is your vision for 2021? >> My goal is to do a little bit more than federal, we're actually expanding to Canada as well. So we have officially launched there, we have employees in Canada that are working in different areas in different provinces and with the federal government to try to help AWS grow there. >> Terrific, and I thought it was just so fascinating, how you're mitigating disaster, and you know, really pushing your business forward, you know, thinking geographically, and that's something that we kind of had to all figured out with a pandemic. So in a way your business has been like a bit of step ahead of the others, and what other ways are you trying to kind of be a step ahead of the curve from the competition. >> So we're looking to stay ahead of the curve by making sure we have the right resources in place, so we do a lot, making sure that when we bring somebody on, we make sure that they're aware that this is a team based company, you're not going to be working individually on one project. We were very big on spec, so we're always making sure that, no matter what level you come in, even if you're just an intern here for the summer, you're running a project, you're getting that real world experience, you're going to even have times where I'm reporting to you, when you have to make sure I'm a accountable for the work. And that helps also build respect amongst the peers, because they know what it takes to run a project, and they're going to make sure that they do a good job, because nobody wants to see their peers if you fail. >> Yeah, well excellent insights, I agree with you. Lisa Brunet, a managing partner and president of the DLZP Group. That's all for this session, I'm your host Natalie Erlich, thank you so much for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Hey, welcome to the live panel. My name is Brett. I am your host, and indeed we are live. In fact, if you're curious about that, if you don't believe us, um, let's just show a little bit of the browser real quick to see. Yup. There you go. We're live. So, all right. So how this is going to work is I'm going to bring in some guests and, uh, in one second, and we're going to basically take your questions on the topic designer of the day, that continuous integration testing. Uh, thank you so much to my guests welcoming into the panel. I've got Carlos, Nico and Mandy. Hello everyone. >>Hello? All right, >>Let's go. Let's go around the room and all pretend we don't know each other and that the internet didn't read below the video who we are. Uh, hi, my name is Brett. I am a Docker captain, which means I'm supposed to know something about Docker. I'm coming from Virginia Beach. I'm streaming here from Virginia Beach, Virginia, and, uh, I make videos on the internet and courses on you to me, Carlos. Hey, >>Hey, what's up? I'm Carlos Nunez. I am a solutions architect, VMware. I do solution things with computers. It's fun. I live in Dallas when I'm moving to Houston in a month, which is where I'm currently streaming. I've been all over the Northeast this whole week. So, um, it's been fun and I'm excited to meet with all of you and talk about CIA and Docker. Sure. >>Yeah. Hey everyone. Uh, Nico, Khobar here. I'm a solution engineer at HashiCorp. Uh, I am streaming to you from, uh, the beautiful Austin, Texas. Uh, ignore, ignore the golden gate bridge here. This is from my old apartment in San Francisco. Uh, just, uh, you know, keeping that, to remember all the good days, um, that that lived at. But, uh, anyway, I work at Patrick Corp and I work on all things, automation, um, and cloud and dev ops. Um, and I'm excited to be here and Mandy, >>Hi. Yeah, Mandy Hubbard. I am streaming from Austin, Texas. I am, uh, currently a DX engineer at ship engine. Um, I've worked in QA and that's kind of where I got my, uh, my Docker experience and, um, uh, moving into DX to try and help developers better understand and use our products and be an advocate for them. >>Nice. Well, thank you all for joining me. Uh, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to be here. And so for those of you in chat, the reason we're doing this live, because it's always harder to do things live. The reason we're here is to answer a question. So we didn't come with a bunch of slides and demos or anything like that. We're here to talk amongst ourselves about ideas and really here for you. So we've, we obviously, this is about easy CII, so we're, we're going to try to keep the conversation around testing and continuous integration and all the things that that entails with containers. But we may, we may go down rabbit holes. We may go veer off and start talking about other things, and that's totally fine if it's in the realm of dev ops and containers and developer and ops workflows, like, Hey, it's, it's kinda game. >>And, uh, these people have a wide variety of expertise. They haven't done just testing, right? We, we live in a world where you all kind of have to wear many hats. So feel free to, um, ask what you think is on the top of your mind. And we'll do our best to answer. It may, might not be the best answer or the correct answer, but we're going to do our best. Um, well, let's get it start off. Uh, let's, let's get a couple of topics to start off with. Uh, th the, the easy CGI was my, one of my three ideas. Cause he's the, one of the things that I'm most excited about is the innovation we're seeing around easier testing, faster testing, automated testing, uh, because as much as we've all been doing this stuff for, you know, 15 years, since 20 years since the sort of Jenkins early days, um, it it's, it seems like it's still really hard and it's still a lot of work. >>So, um, let's go around the room real quick, and everybody can just kind of talk for a minute about like your experience with testing and maybe some of your pain points, like what you don't like about our testing world. Um, and we can talk about some pains, cause I think that will lead us to kind of talk about what, what are the things we're seeing now that might be better, uh, ideas about how to do this. I know for me, uh, testing, obviously there's the code part, but just getting it automated, but mostly getting it in the hands of developers so that they can control their own testing. And don't have to go talk to a person to run that test again, or the mysterious Jenkins platform somewhere. I keep mentioning Jenkins cause it's, it is still the dominant player out there. Um, so for me, I'm, I'm, I, I don't like it when I'm walking into a room and there's, there's only one or two people that know how the testing works or know how to make the new tests go into the testing platform and stuff like that. So I'm always trying to free those things so that any of the developers are enabled and empowered to do that stuff. So someone else, Carlos, anybody, um, >>Oh, I have a lot of opinions on that. Having been a QA engineer for most of my career. Um, the shift that we're saying is everyone is dev ops and everyone is QA. Th the issue I see is no one asked developers if they wanted to be QA. Um, and so being the former QA on the team, when there's a problem, even though I'm a developer and we're all running QA, they always tend to come to the one of the former QA engineers. And they're not really owning that responsibility and, um, and digging in. So that's kind of what I'm saying is that we're all expected to test now. And some people, well, some people don't know how it's, uh, for me it was kind of an intuitive skill. It just kind of fit with my personality, but not knowing what to look for, not knowing what to automate, not even understanding how your API end points are used by your front end to know what to test when a change is made. It's really overwhelming for developers. And, um, we're going to need to streamline that and, and hold their hands a little bit until they get their feet wet with also being QA. >>Right. Right. So, um, uh, Carlos, >>Yeah, uh, testing is like, Tesla is one of my favorite subjects to talk about when I'm baring with developers. And a lot of it is because of what Mandy said, right? Like a lot of developers now who used to write a test and say, Hey, QA, go. Um, I wrote my unit tests. Now write the rest of the test. Essentially. Now developers are expected to be able to understand how testing, uh, testing methodologies work, um, in their local environments, right? Like they're supposed to understand how to write an integration tasks federate into and tasks, a component test. And of course, how to write unit tests that aren't just, you know, assert true is true, right? Like more comprehensive, more comprehensive, um, more high touch unit tests, which include things like mocking and stubbing and spine and all that stuff. And, you know, it's not so much getting those tests. Well, I've had a lot of challenges with developers getting those tests to run in Docker because of usually because of dependency hell, but, um, getting developers to understand how to write tests that matter and mean something. Um, it's, it's, it can be difficult, but it's also where I find a lot of the enjoyment of my work comes into play. So yeah. I mean, that's the difficulty I've seen around testing. Um, big subject though. Lots to talk about there. >>Yeah. We've got, we've already got so many questions coming in. You already got an hour's worth of stuff. So, uh, Nico 81st thoughts on that? >>Yeah, I think I definitely agree with, with other folks here on the panel, I think from a, um, the shift from a skillset perspective that's needed to adopt the new technologies, but I think from even from, uh, aside from the organizational, um, and kind of key responsibilities that, that the new developers have to kinda adapt to and, and kind of inherit now, um, there's also from a technical perspective as there's, you know, um, more developers are owning the full stack, including the infrastructure piece. So that adds a lot more to the plate in Tim's oaf, also testing that component that they were not even, uh, responsible for before. Um, and, um, also the second challenge that, you know, I'm seeing is that on, you know, the long list of added, um, uh, tooling and, you know, there's new tool every other day. Um, and, um, that kind of requires more customization to the testing, uh, that each individual team, um, any individual developer Y by extension has to learn. Uh, so the customization, uh, as well as the, kind of the scope that had, uh, you know, now in conferences, the infrastructure piece, um, uh, both of act to the, to the challenges that we're seeing right now for, um, for CGI and overall testing, um, uh, the developers are saying, uh, in, in the market today. >>Yeah. We've got a lot of questions, um, about all the, all the different parts of this. So, uh, let me just go straight to them. Cause that's why we're here is for the people, uh, a lot of people asking about your favorite tools and in one of this is one of the challenges with integration, right? Is, um, there is no, there are dominant players, but there, there is such a variety. I mean, every one of my customers seems like they're using a different workflow and a different set of tools. So, and Hey, we're all here to just talk about what we're, what we're using, uh, you know, whether your favorite tools. So like a lot of the repeated questions are, what are your favorite tools? Like if you could create it from scratch, uh, what would you use? Pierre's asking, you know, GitHub actions sounds like they're a fan of GitHub actions, uh, w you know, mentioning, pushing the ECR and Docker hub and, uh, using vs code pipeline, I guess there may be talking about Azure pipelines. Um, what, what's your preferred way? So, does anyone have any, uh, thoughts on that anyone want to throw out there? Their preferred pipeline of tooling? >>Well, I have to throw out mine. I might as Jenkins, um, like kind of a honorary cloud be at this point, having spoken a couple of times there, um, all of the plugins just make the functionality. I don't love the UI, but I love that it's been around so long. It has so much community support, and there are so many plugins so that if you want to do something, you don't have to write the code it's already been tested. Um, unfortunately I haven't been able to use Jenkins in, uh, since I joined ship engine, we, most of our, um, our, our monolithic core application is, is team city. It's a dotnet application and TeamCity plays really well with.net. Um, didn't love it, uh, Ms. Jenkins. And I'm just, we're just starting some new initiatives that are using GitHub actions, and I'm really excited to learn, to learn those. I think they have a lot of the same functionality that you're looking for, but, um, much more simplified in is right there and get hubs. So, um, the integration is a lot more seamless, but I do have to go on record that my favorite CICT tools Jenkins. >>All right. You heard it here first people. All right. Anyone else? You're muted? I'm muted. Carlin says muted. Oh, Carla says, guest has muted themselves to Carlos. You got to unmute. >>Yes. I did mute myself because I was typing a lot, trying to, you know, try to answer stuff in the chat. And there's a lot of really dark stuff in there. That's okay. Two more times today. So yeah, it's fine. Yeah, no problem. So totally. And it's the best way to start a play more. So I'm just going to go ahead and light it up. Um, for enterprise environments, I actually am a huge fan of Jenkins. Um, it's a tool that people really understand. Um, it has stood the test of time, right? I mean, people were using Hudson, but 15 years ago, maybe longer. And, you know, the way it works, hasn't really changed very much. I mean, Jenkins X is a little different, but, um, the UI and the way it works internally is pretty familiar to a lot of enterprise environments, which is great. >>And also in me, the plugin ecosystem is amazing. There's so many plugins for everything, and you can make your own if you know, Java groovy. I'm sure there's a perfect Kotlin in there, but I haven't tried myself, but it's really great. It's also really easy to write, um, CIS code, which is something I'm a big fan of. So Jenkins files have been, have worked really well for me. I, I know that I can get a little bit more complex as you start to build your own models and such, but, you know, for enterprise enterprise CIO CD, if you want, especially if you want to roll your own or own it yourself, um, Jenkins is the bellwether and for very good reason now for my personal projects. And I see a lot on the chat here, I think y'all, y'all been agreed with me get hub actions 100%, my favorite tool right now. >>Um, I love GitHub actions. It's, it's customizable, it's modular. There's a lot of plugins already. I started using getting that back maybe a week after when GA and there was no documentation or anything. And I still, it was still my favorite CIA tool even then. Um, and you know, the API is really great. There's a lot to love about GitHub actions and, um, and I, and I use it as much as I can from my personal project. So I still have a soft spot for Travis CAI. Um, you know, they got acquired and they're a little different now trying to see, I, I can't, I can't let it go. I just love it. But, um, yeah, I mean, when it comes to Seattle, those are my tools. So light me up in the comments I will respond. Yeah. >>I mean, I, I feel with you on the Travis, the, I think, cause I think that was my first time experiencing, you know, early days get hub open source and like a free CIA tool that I could describe. I think it was the ammo back then. I don't actually remember, but yeah, it was kind of an exciting time from my experience. There was like, oh, this is, this is just there as a service. And I could just use it. It doesn't, it's like get hub it's free from my open source stuff. And so it does have a soft spot in my heart too. So yeah. >>All right. We've got questions around, um, cam, so I'm going to ask some questions. We don't have to have these answers because sometimes they're going to be specific, but I want to call them out because people in chat may have missed that question. And there's probably, you know, that we have smart people in chat too. So there's probably someone that knows the answer to these things. If, if it's not us, um, they're asking about building Docker images in Kubernetes, which to me is always a sore spot because it's Kubernetes does not build images by default. It's not meant for that out of the gate. And, uh, what is the best way to do this without having to use privileged containers, which privileged containers just implying that yeah, you, you, it probably has more privileges than by default as a container in Kubernetes. And that is a hard thing because, uh, I don't, I think Docker doesn't lie to do that out of the gate. So I don't know if anyone has an immediate answer to that. That's a pretty technical one, but if you, if you know the answer to that in chat, call it out. >>Um, >>I had done this, uh, but I'm pretty sure I had to use a privileged, um, container and install the Docker Damon on the Kubernetes cluster. And I CA I can't give you a better solution. Um, I've done the same. So, >>Yeah, uh, Chavonne asks, um, back to the Jenkins thing, what's the easiest way to integrate Docker into a Jenkins CICB pipeline. And that's one of the challenges I find with Jenkins because I don't claim to be the expert on Jenkins. Is there are so many plugins because of this, of this such a huge ecosystem. Um, when you go searching for Docker, there's a lot that comes back, right. So I, I don't actually have a preferred way because every team I find uses it differently. Um, I don't know, is there a, do you know if there's a Jenkins preferred, a default plugin? I don't even know for Docker. Oh, go ahead. Yeah. Sorry for Docker. And jacon sorry, Docker plugins for Jenkins. Uh, as someone's asking like the preferred or easy way to do that. Um, and I don't, I don't know the back into Jenkins that well, so, >>Well, th the new, the new way that they're doing, uh, Docker builds with the pipeline, which is more declarative versus the groovy. It's really simple, and their documentation is really good. They, um, they make it really easy to say, run this in this image. So you can pull down, you know, public images and add your own layers. Um, so I don't know the name of that plugin, uh, but I can certainly take a minute after this session and going and get that. Um, but if you really are overwhelmed by the plugins, you can just write your, you know, your shell command in Jenkins. You could just by, you know, doing everything in bash, calling the Docker, um, Damon directly, and then getting it working just to see that end to end, and then start browsing for plugins to see if you even want to use those. >>The plugins will allow more integration from end to end. Some of the things that you input might be available later on in the process for having to manage that yourself. But, you know, you don't have to use any of the plugins. You can literally just, you know, do a block where you write your shell command and get it working, and then decide if, for plugins for you. Um, I think it's always under important to understand what is going on under the hood before you, before you adopt the magic of a plugin, because, um, once you have a problem, if you're, if it's all a lockbox to you, it's going to be more difficult to troubleshoot. It's kind of like learning, get command line versus like get cracking or something. Once, once you get in a bind, if you don't understand the underlying steps, it's really hard to get yourself out of a bind, versus if you understand what the plugin or the app is doing, then, um, you can get out of situations a lot easier. That's a good place. That's, that's where I'd start. >>Yeah. Thank you. Um, Camden asks better to build test environment images, every commit in CII. So this is like one of those opinions of we're all gonna have some different, uh, or build on build images on every commit, leveraging the cash, or build them once outside the test pile pipeline. Um, what say you people? >>Uh, well, I I've seen both and generally speaking, my preference is, um, I guess the ant, the it's a consultant answer, right? I think it depends on what you're trying to do, right. So if you have a lot of small changes that are being made and you're creating images for each of those commits, you're going to have a lot of images in your, in your registry, right? And on top of that, if you're building those images, uh, through CAI frequently, if you're using Docker hub or something like that, you might run into rate limiting issues because of Docker's new rate, limiting, uh, rate limits that they put in place. Um, but that might be beneficial if the, if being able to roll back between those small changes while you're testing is important to you. Uh, however, if all you care about is being able to use Docker images, um, or being able to correlate versions to your Docker images, or if you're the type of team that doesn't even use him, uh, does he even use, uh, virgins in your image tags? Then I would think that that might be a little, much you might want to just have in your CIO. You might want to have a stage that builds your Docker images and Docker image and pushes it into your registry, being done first particular branches instead of having to be done on every commit regardless of branch. But again, it really depends on the team. It really depends on what you're building. It really depends on your workflow. It can depend on a number of things like a curse sometimes too. Yeah. Yeah. >>Once had two points here, you know, I've seen, you know, the pattern has been at every, with every, uh, uh, commit, assuming that you have the right set of tests that would kind of, uh, you would benefit from actually seeing, um, the, the, the, the testing workflow go through and can detect any issue within, within the build or whatever you're trying to test against. But if you're just a building without the appropriate set of tests, then you're just basically consuming almond, adding time, as well as all the, the image, uh, stories associated with it without treaty reaping the benefit of, of, of this pattern. Uh, and the second point is, again, I think if you're, if you're going to end up doing a per commit, uh, definitely recommend having some type of, uh, uh, image purging, um, uh, and, and, and garbage collection process to ensure that you're not just wasting, um, all the stories needed and also, um, uh, optimizing your, your bill process, because that will end up being the most time-consuming, um, um, you know, within, within your pipeline. So this is my 2 cents on this. >>Yeah, that's good stuff. I mean, those are both of those are conversations that could lead us into the rabbit hole for the rest of the day on storage management, uh, you know, CP CPU minutes for, uh, you know, your build stuff. I mean, if you're in any size team, more than one or two people, you immediately run into headaches with cost of CIA, because we have now the problem of tools, right? We have so many tools. We can have the CIS system burning CPU cycles all day, every day, if we really wanted to. And so you re very quickly, I think, especially if you're on every commit on every branch, like that gets you into a world of cost mitigation, and you probably are going to have to settle somewhere in the middle on, uh, between the budget, people that are saying you're spending way too much money on the CII platform, uh, because of all these CPU cycles, and then the developers who would love to have everything now, you know, as fast as possible and the biggest, biggest CPU's, and the biggest servers, and have the bills, because the bills can never go fast enough, right. >>There's no end to optimizing your build workflow. Um, we have another question on that. This is another topic that we'll all probably have different takes on is, uh, basically, uh, version tags, right? So on images, we, we have a very established workflow in get for how we make commits. We have commit shots. We have, uh, you know, we know get tags and there's all these things there. And then we go into images and it's just this whole new world that's opened up. Like there's no real consensus. Um, so what, what are your thoughts on the strategy for teams in their image tag? Again, another, another culture thing. Um, commander, >>I mean, I'm a fan of silver when we have no other option. Um, it's just clean and I like the timestamp, you know, exactly when it was built. Um, I don't really see any reason to use another, uh, there's just normal, incremental, um, you know, numbering, but I love the fact that you can pull any tag and know exactly when it was created. So I'm a big fan of bar, if you can make that work for your organization. >>Yep. People are mentioned that in chat, >>So I like as well. Uh, I'm a big fan of it. I think it's easy to be able to just be as easy to be able to signify what a major changes versus a minor change versus just a hot fix or, you know, some or some kind of a bad fix. The problem that I've found with having teams adopt San Bernardo becomes answering these questions and being able to really define what is a major change, what is a minor change? What is a patch, right? And this becomes a bit of an overhead or not so much of an overhead, but, uh, uh, uh, a large concern for teams who have never done versioning before, or they never been responsible for their own versioning. Um, in fact, you know, I'm running into that right now, uh, with, with a client that I'm working with, where a lot, I'm working with a lot of teams, helping them move their applications from a legacy production environment into a new one. >>And in doing so, uh, versioning comes up because Docker images, uh, have tags and usually the tax correlate to versions, but some teams over there, some teams that I'm working with are only maintaining a script and others are maintaining a fully fledged JAK, three tier application, you know, with lots of dependencies. So telling the script, telling the team that maintains a script, Hey, you know, you should use somber and you should start thinking about, you know, what's major, what's my number what's patch. That might be a lot for them. And for someone or a team like that, I might just suggest using commit shots as your versions until you figure that out, or maybe using, um, dates as your version, but for the more for the team, with the larger application, they probably already know the answers to those questions. In which case they're either already using Sember or they, um, or they may be using some other version of the strategy and might be in December, might suit them better. So, um, you're going to hear me say, it depends a lot, and I'm just going to say here, it depends. Cause it really does. Carlos. >>I think you hit on something interesting beyond just how to version, but, um, when to consider it a major release and who makes those decisions, and if you leave it to engineers to version, you're kind of pushing business decisions down the pipe. Um, I think when it's a minor or a major should be a business decision and someone else needs to make that call someone closer to the business should be making that call as to when we want to call it major. >>That's a really good point. And I add some, I actually agree. Um, I absolutely agree with that. And again, it really depends on the team that on the team and the scope of it, it depends on the scope that they're maintaining, right? And so it's a business application. Of course, you're going to have a product manager and you're going to have, you're going to have a product manager who's going to want to make that call because that version is going to be out in marketing. People are going to use it. They're going to refer to and support calls. They're going to need to make those decisions. Sember again, works really, really well for that. Um, but for a team that's maintaining the scripts, you know, I don't know, having them say, okay, you must tell me what a major version is. It's >>A lot, but >>If they want it to use some birds great too, which is why I think going back to what you originally said, Sember in the absence of other options. I think that's a good strategy. >>Yeah. There's a, there's a, um, catching up on chat. I'm not sure if I'm ever going to catch up, but there's a lot of people commenting on their favorite CII systems and it's, and it, it just goes to show for the, the testing and deployment community. Like how many tools there are out there, how many tools there are to support the tools that you're using. Like, uh, it can be a crazy wilderness. And I think that's, that's part of the art of it, uh, is that these things are allowing us to build our workflows to the team's culture. Um, and, uh, but I do think that, you know, getting into like maybe what we hope to be at what's next is I do hope that we get to, to try to figure out some of these harder problems of consistency. Uh, one of the things that led me to Docker at the beginning to begin with was the fact that it wa it created a consistent packaging solution for me to get my code, you know, off of, off of my site of my local system, really, and into the server. >>And that whole workflow would at least the thing that I was making at each step was going to be the same thing used. Right. And that, that was huge. Uh, it was also, it also took us a long time to get there. Right. We all had to, like Docker was one of those ones that decade kind of ideas of let's solidify the, enter, get the consensus of the community around this idea. And we, and it's not perfect. Uh, you know, the Docker Docker file is not the most perfect way to describe how to make your app, but it is there and we're all using it. And now I'm looking for that next piece, right. Then hopefully the next step in that, um, that where we can all arrive at a consensus so that once you hop teams, you know, okay. We all knew Docker. We now, now we're all starting to get to know the manifests, but then there's this big gap in the middle where it's like, it might be one of a dozen things. Um, you know, so >>Yeah, yeah. To that, to that, Brett, um, you know, uh, just maybe more of a shameless plug here and wanting to kind of talk about one of the things that I'm on. So excited, but I work, I work at Tasha Corp. I don't know anyone, or I don't know if many people have heard of, um, you know, we tend to focus a lot on workflows versus technologies, right. Because, you know, as you can see, even just looking at the chat, there's, you know, ton of opinions on the different tooling, right. And, uh, imagine having, you know, I'm working with clients that have 10,000 developers. So imagine taking the folks in the chat and being partnered with one organization or one company and having to make decisions on how to build software. Um, but there's no way you can conversion one or, or one way or one tool, uh, and that's where we're facing in the industry. >>So one of the things that, uh, I'm pretty excited about, and I don't know if it's getting as much traction as you know, we've been focused on it. This is way point, which is a project, an open source project. I believe we got at least, uh, last year, um, which is, it's more of, uh, it's, it is aim to address that really, uh, uh, Brad set on, you know, to come to tool to, uh, make it extremely easy and simple. And, you know, to describe how you want to build, uh, deploy or release your application, uh, in, in a consistent way, regardless of the tools. So similar to how you can think of Terraform and having that pluggability to say Terraform apply or plan against any cloud infrastructure, uh, without really having to know exactly the details of how to do it, uh, this is what wave one is doing. Um, and it can be applied with, you know, for the CIA, uh, framework. So, you know, task plugability into, uh, you know, circle CEI tests to Docker helm, uh, Kubernetes. So that's the, you know, it's, it's a hard problem to solve, but, um, I'm hopeful that that's the path that we're, you know, we'll, we'll eventually get to. So, um, hope, you know, you can, you can, uh, see some of the, you know, information, data on it, on, on HashiCorp site, but I mean, I'm personally excited about it. >>Yeah. Uh I'm to gonna have to check that out. And, um, I told you on my live show, man, we'll talk about it, but talk about it for a whole hour. Uh, so there's another question here around, uh, this, this is actually a little bit more detailed, but it is one that I think a lot of people deal with and I deal with a lot too, is essentially the question is from Cameron, uh, D essentially, do you use compose in your CIO or not Docker compose? Uh, because yes I do. Yeah. Cause it, it, it, it solves so many problems am and not every CGI can, I don't know, there's some problems with a CIO is trying to do it for me. So there are pros and cons and I feel like I'm still on the fence about it because I use it all the time, but also it's not perfect. It's not always meant for CIA. And CIA sometimes tries to do things for you, like starting things up before you start other parts and having that whole order, uh, ordering problem of things anyway. W thoughts and when have thoughts. >>Yes. I love compose. It's one of my favorite tools of all time. Um, and the reason why it's, because what I often find I'm working with teams trying to actually let me walk that back, because Jack on the chat asked a really interesting question about what, what, what the hardest thing about CIS for a lot of teams. And in my experience, the hardest thing is getting teams to build an app that is the same app as what's built in production. A lot of CGI does things that are totally different than what you would do in your local, in your local dev. And as a result of that, you get, you got this application that either doesn't work locally, or it does work, but it's a completely different animal than what you would get in production. Right? So what I've found in trying to get teams to bridge that gap by basically taking their CGI, shifting the CII left, I hate the shift left turn, but I'll use it. >>I'm shifting the CIO left to your local development is trying to say, okay, how do we build an app? How do we, how do we build mot dependencies of that app so that we can build so that we can test our app? How do we run tests, right? How do we build, how do we get test data? And what I found is that trying to get teams to do all this in Docker, which is normally a first for a lot of teams that I'm working with, trying to get them all to do all of this. And Docker means you're running Docker, build a lot running Docker, run a lot. You're running Docker, RM a lot. You ran a lot of Docker, disparate Docker commands. And then on top of that, trying to bridge all of those containers together into a single network can be challenging without compose. >>So I like using a, to be able to really easily categorize and compartmentalize a lot of the things that are going to be done in CII, like building a Docker image, running tests, which is you're, you're going to do it in CII anyway. So running tests, building the image, pushing it to the registry. Well, I wouldn't say pushing it to the registry, but doing all the things that you would do in local dev, but in the same network that you might have a mock database or a mock S3 instance or some of something else. Um, so it's just easy to take all those Docker compose commands and move them into your Yammel file using the hub actions or your dankest Bob using Jenkins, or what have you. Right. It's really, it's really portable that way, but it doesn't work for every team. You know, for example, if you're just a team that, you know, going back to my script example, if it's a really simple script that does one thing on a somewhat routine basis, then that might be a lot of overhead. Um, in that case, you know, you can get away with just Docker commands. It's not a big deal, but the way I looked at it is if I'm, if I'm building, if I build something that's similar to a make bile or rate file, or what have you, then I'm probably gonna want to use Docker compose. If I'm working with Docker, that's, that's a philosophy of values, right? >>So I'm also a fan of Docker compose. And, um, you know, to your point, Carlos, the whole, I mean, I'm also a fan of shifting CEI lift and testing lift, but if you put all that logic in your CTI, um, it changes the L the local development experience from the CGI experience. Versus if you put everything in a compose file so that what you build locally is the same as what you build in CGI. Um, you're going to have a better experience because you're going to be testing something more, that's closer to what you're going to be releasing. And it's also very easy to look at a compose file and kind of, um, understand what the dependencies are and what's happening is very readable. And once you move that stuff to CGI, I think a lot of developers, you know, they're going to be intimidated by the CGI, um, whatever the scripting language is, it's going to be something they're going to have to wrap their head around. >>Um, but they're not gonna be able to use it locally. You're going to have to have another local solution. So I love the idea of a composed file use locally, um, especially if he can Mount the local workspace so that they can do real time development and see their changes in the exact same way as it's going to be built and tested in CGI. It gives developers a high level of confidence. And then, you know, you're less likely to have issues because of discrepancies between how it was built in your local test environment versus how it's built in NCI. And so Docker compose really lets you do all of that in a way that makes your solution more portable, portable between local dev and CGI and reduces the number of CGI cycles to get, you know, the test, the test data that you need. So that's why I like it for really, for local dev. >>It'll be interesting. Um, I don't know if you all were able to see the keynote, but there was a, there was a little bit, not a whole lot, but a little bit talk of the Docker, compose V two, which has now built into the Docker command line. And so now we're shifting from the Python built compose, which was a separate package. You could that one of the challenges was getting it into your CA solution because if you don't have PIP and you got down on the binary and the binary wasn't available for every platform and, uh, it was a PI installer. It gets a little nerdy into how that works, but, uh, and the team is now getting, be able to get unified with it. Now that it's in Golang and it's, and it's plugged right into the Docker command line, it hopefully will be easier to distribute, easier to, to use. >>And you won't have to necessarily have dependencies inside of where you're running it because there'll be a statically compiled binary. Um, so I've been playing with that, uh, this year. And so like training myself to do Docker going from Docker dash compose to Docker space, compose. It is a thing I I'm almost to the point of having to write a shell replacement. Yeah. Alias that thing. Um, but, um, I'm excited to see what that's going, cause there's already new features in it. And it, these built kit by default, like there's all these things. And I, I love build kit. We could make a whole session on build kit. Um, in fact there's actually, um, maybe going on right now, or right around this time, there is a session on, uh, from Solomon hikes, the seat, uh, co-founder of Docker, former CTO, uh, on build kit using, uh, using some other tool on top of build kit or whatever. >>So that, that would be interesting for those of you that are not watching that one. Cause you're here, uh, to do a check that one out later. Um, all right. So another good question was caching. So another one, another area where there is no wrong answers probably, and everyone has a different story. So the question is, what are your thoughts on CII build caching? There's often a debate between security. This is from Quentin. Thank you for this great question. There's often a debate between security reproducibility and build speeds. I haven't found a good answer so far. I will just throw my hat in the ring and say that the more times you want to build, like if you're trying to build every commit or every commit, if you're building many times a day, the more caching you need. So like the more times you're building, the more caching you're gonna likely want. And in most cases caching doesn't bite you in the butt, but that could be, yeah, we, can we get the bit about that? So, yeah. Yeah. >>I'm going to quote Carlos again and say, it depends on, on, you know, how you're talking, you know, what you're trying to build and I'm quoting your colors. Um, yeah, it's, it's got, it's gonna depend because, you know, there are some instances where you definitely want to use, you know, depends on the frequency that you're building and how you're building. Um, it's you would want to actually take advantage of cashing functionalities, um, for the build, uh, itself. Um, but if, um, you know, as you mentioned, there could be some instances where you would want to disable, um, any caching because you actually want to either pull a new packages or, um, you know, there could be some security, um, uh, disadvantages related to security aspects that would, you know, you know, using a cache version of, uh, image layer, for example, could be a problem. And you, you know, if you have a fleet of build, uh, engines, you don't have a good grasp of where they're being cashed. We would have to, um, disable caching in that, in that, um, in those instances. So it, it would depend. >>Yeah, it's, it's funny you have that problem on both sides of cashing. Like there are things that, especially in Docker world, they will cash automatically. And, and then, and then you maybe don't realize that some of that caching could be bad. It's, it's actually using old, uh, old assets, old artifacts, and then there's times where you would expect it to cash, that it doesn't cash. And then you have to do something extra to enable that caching, especially when you're dealing with that cluster of, of CIS servers. Right. And the cloud, the whole clustering problem with caching is even more complex, but yeah, >>But that's, that's when, >>Uh, you know, ever since I asked you to start using build kits and able to build kit, you know, between it's it's it's reader of Boston in, in detecting word, you know, where in, in the bill process needs to cash, as well as, uh, the, the, um, you know, the process. I don't think I've seen any other, uh, approach there that comes close to how efficient, uh, that process can become how much time it can actually save. Uh, but again, I think, I think that's, for me that had been my default approach, unless I actually need something that I would intentionally to disable caching for that purpose, but the benefits, at least for me, the benefits of, um, how bill kit actually been processing my bills, um, from the builds as well as, you know, using the cash up until, you know, how it detects the, the difference in, in, in the assets within the Docker file had been, um, you know, uh, pretty, you know, outweigh the disadvantages that it brings in. So it, you know, take it each case by case. And based on that, determine if you want to use it, but definitely recommend those enabling >>In the absence of a reason not to, um, I definitely think that it's a good approach in terms of speed. Um, yeah, I say you cash until you have a good reason not to personally >>Catch by default. There you go. I think you catch by default. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, the trick is, well, one, it's not always enabled by default, especially when you're talking about cross server. So that's a, that's a complexity for your SIS admins, or if you're on the cloud, you know, it's usually just an option. Um, I think it also is this, this veers into a little bit of, uh, the more you cash the in a lot of cases with Docker, like the, from like, if you're from images and checked every single time, if you're not pinning every single thing, if you're not painting your app version, you're at your MPN versions to the exact lock file definition. Like there's a lot of these things where I'm I get, I get sort of, I get very grouchy with teams that sort of let it, just let it all be like, yeah, we'll just build two images and they're totally going to have different dependencies because someone happened to update that thing and after whatever or MPM or, or, and so I get grouchy about that, cause I want to lock it all down, but I also know that that's going to create administrative burden. >>Like the team is now going to have to manage versions in a very much more granular way. Like, do we need to version two? Do we need to care about curl? You know, all that stuff. Um, so that's, that's kind of tricky, but when you get to, when you get to certain version problems, uh, sorry, uh, cashing problems, you, you, you don't want those set those caches to happen because it, if you're from image changes and you're not constantly checking for a new image, and if you're not pinning that V that version, then now you, you don't know whether you're getting the latest version of Davion or whatever. Um, so I think that there's, there's an art form to the more you pen, the less you have, the less, you have to be worried about things changing, but the more you pen, the, uh, all your versions of everything all the way down the stack, the more administrative stuff, because you're gonna have to manually change every one of those. >>So I think it's a balancing act for teams. And as you mature, I to find teams, they tend to pin more until they get to a point of being more comfortable with their testing. So the other side of this argument is if you trust your testing, then you, and you have better testing to me, the less likely to the subtle little differences in versions have to be penned because you can get away with those minor or patch level version changes. If you're thoroughly testing your app, because you're trusting your testing. And this gets us into a whole nother rant, but, uh, yeah, but talking >>About penny versions, if you've got a lot of dependencies isn't that when you would want to use the cash the most and not have to rebuild all those layers. Yeah. >>But if you're not, but if you're not painting to the exact patch version and you are caching, then you're not technically getting the latest versions because it's not checking for all the time. It's a weird, there's a lot of this subtle nuance that people don't realize until it's a problem. And that's part of the, the tricky part of allow this stuff, is it, sometimes the Docker can be almost so much magic out of the box that you, you, you get this all and it all works. And then day two happens and you built it a second time and you've got a new version of open SSL in there and suddenly it doesn't work. Um, so anyway, uh, that was a great question. I've done the question on this, on, uh, from heavy. What do you put, where do you put testing in your pipeline? Like, so testing the code cause there's lots of types of testing, uh, because this pipeline gets longer and longer and Docker building images as part of it. And so he says, um, before staging or after staging, but before production, where do you put it? >>Oh man. Okay. So, um, my, my main thought on this is, and of course this is kind of religious flame bait, so sure. You know, people are going to go into the compensation wrong. Carlos, the boy is how I like to think about it. So pretty much in every stage or every environment that you're going to be deploying your app into, or that your application is going to touch. My idea is that there should be a build of a Docker image that has all your applications coded in, along with its dependencies, there's testing that tests your application, and then there's a deployment that happens into whatever infrastructure there is. Right. So the testing, they can get tricky though. And the type of testing you do, I think depends on the environment that you're in. So if you're, let's say for example, your team and you have, you have a main branch and then you have feature branches that merged into the main branch. >>You don't have like a pre-production branch or anything like that. So in those feature branches, whenever I'm doing CGI that way, I know when I freak, when I cut my poll request, that I'm going to merge into main and everything's going to work in my feature branches, I'm going to want to probably just run unit tests and maybe some component tests, which really, which are just, you know, testing that your app can talk to another component or another part, another dependency, like maybe a database doing tests like that, that don't take a lot of time that are fascinating and right. A lot of would be done at the beach branch level and in my opinion, but when you're going to merge that beach branch into main, as part of a release in that activity, you're going to want to be able to do an integration tasks, to make sure that your app can actually talk to all the other dependencies that it talked to. >>You're going to want to do an end to end test or a smoke test, just to make sure that, you know, someone that actually touches the application, if it's like a website can actually use the website as intended and it meets the business cases and all that, and you might even have testing like performance testing, low performance load testing, or security testing, compliance testing that would want to happen in my opinion, when you're about to go into production with a release, because those are gonna take a long time. Those are very expensive. You're going to have to cut new infrastructure, run those tests, and it can become quite arduous. And you're not going to want to run those all the time. You'll have the resources, uh, builds will be slower. Uh, release will be slower. It will just become a mess. So I would want to save those for when I'm about to go into production. Instead of doing those every time I make a commit or every time I'm merging a feature ranch into a non main branch, that's the way I look at it, but everything does a different, um, there's other philosophies around it. Yeah. >>Well, I don't disagree with your build test deploy. I think if you're going to deploy the code, it needs to be tested. Um, at some level, I mean less the same. You've got, I hate the term smoke tests, cause it gives a false sense of security, but you have some mental minimum minimal amount of tests. And I would expect the developer on the feature branch to add new tests that tested that feature. And that would be part of the PR why those tests would need to pass before you can merge it, merge it to master. So I agree that there are tests that you, you want to run at different stages, but the earlier you can run the test before going to production. Um, the fewer issues you have, the easier it is to troubleshoot it. And I kind of agree with what you said, Carlos, about the longer running tests like performance tests and things like that, waiting to the end. >>The only problem is when you wait until the end to run those performance tests, you kind of end up deploying with whatever performance you have. It's, it's almost just an information gathering. So if you don't run your performance test early on, um, and I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but performance tests can be really useless if you don't have a goal where it's just information gap, uh, this is, this is the performance. Well, what did you expect it to be? Is it good? Is it bad? They can get really nebulous. So if performance is really important, um, you you're gonna need to come up with some expectations, preferably, you know, set up the business level, like what our SLA is, what our response times and have something to shoot for. And then before you're getting to production. If you have targets, you can test before staging and you can tweak the code before staging and move that performance initiative. Sorry, Carlos, a little to the left. Um, but if you don't have a performance targets, then it's just a check box. So those are my thoughts. I like to test before every deployment. Right? >>Yeah. And you know what, I'm glad that you, I'm glad that you brought, I'm glad that you brought up Escalades and performance because, and you know, the definition of performance says to me, because one of the things that I've seen when I work with teams is that oftentimes another team runs a P and L tests and they ended, and the development team doesn't really have too much insight into what's going on there. And usually when I go to the performance team and say, Hey, how do you run your performance test? It's usually just a generic solution for every single application that they support, which may or may not be applicable to the application team that I'm working with specifically. So I think it's a good, I'm not going to dig into it. I'm not going to dig into the rabbit hole SRE, but it is a good bridge into SRE when you start trying to define what does reliability mean, right? >>Because the reason why you test performance, it's test reliability to make sure that when you cut that release, that customers would go to your site or use your application. Aren't going to see regressions in performance and are not going to either go to another website or, you know, lodge in SLA violation or something like that. Um, it does, it does bridge really well with defining reliability and what SRE means. And when you have, when you start talking about that, that's when you started talking about how often do I run? How often do I test my reliability, the reliability of my application, right? Like, do I have nightly tasks in CGI that ensure that my main branch or, you know, some important branch I does not mean is meeting SLA is meeting SLR. So service level objectives, um, or, you know, do I run tasks that ensure that my SLA is being met in production? >>Like whenever, like do I use, do I do things like game days where I test, Hey, if I turn something off or, you know, if I deploy this small broken code to production and like what happens to my performance? What happens to my security and compliance? Um, you can, that you can go really deep into and take creating, um, into creating really robust tests that cover a lot of different domains. But I liked just using build test deploy is the overall answer to that because I find that you're going to have to build your application first. You're going to have to test it out there and build it, and then you're going to want to deploy it after you test it. And that order generally ensures that you're releasing software. That works. >>Right. Right. Um, I was going to ask one last question. Um, it's going to have to be like a sentence answer though, for each one of you. Uh, this is, uh, do you lint? And if you lint, do you lent all the things, if you do, do you fail the linters during your testing? Yes or no? I think it's going to depend on the culture. I really do. Sorry about it. If we >>Have a, you know, a hook, uh, you know, on the get commit, then theoretically the developer can't get code there without running Melinta anyway, >>So, right, right. True. Anyone else? Anyone thoughts on that? Linting >>Nice. I saw an additional question online thing. And in the chat, if you would introduce it in a multi-stage build, um, you know, I was wondering also what others think about that, like typically I've seen, you know, with multi-stage it's the most common use case is just to produce the final, like to minimize the, the, the, the, the, the image size and produce a final, you know, thin, uh, layout or thin, uh, image. Uh, so if it's not for that, like, I, I don't, I haven't seen a lot of, you know, um, teams or individuals who are actually within a multi-stage build. There's nothing really against that, but they think the number one purpose of doing multi-stage had been just producing the minimalist image. Um, so just wanted to kind of combine those two answers in one, uh, for sure. >>Yeah, yeah, sure. Um, and with that, um, thank you all for the great questions. We are going to have to wrap this up and we could go for another hour if we all had the time. And if Dr. Khan was a 24 hour long event and it didn't sadly, it's not. So we've got to make room for the next live panel, which will be Peter coming on and talking about security with some developer ex security experts. And I wanted to thank again, thank you all three of you for being here real quick, go around the room. Um, uh, where can people reach out to you? I am, uh, at Bret Fisher on Twitter. You can find me there. Carlos. >>I'm at dev Mandy with a Y D E N D Y that's me, um, >>Easiest name ever on Twitter, Carlos and DFW on LinkedIn. And I also have a LinkedIn learning course. So if you check me out on my LinkedIn learning, >>Yeah. I'm at Nicola Quebec. Um, one word, I'll put it in the chat as well on, on LinkedIn, as well as, uh, uh, as well as Twitter. Thanks for having us, Brett. Yeah. Thanks for being here. >>Um, and, and you all stay around. So if you're in the room with us chatting, you're gonna, you're gonna, if you want to go to see the next live panel, I've got to go back to the beginning and do that whole thing, uh, and find the next, because this one will end, but we'll still be in chat for a few minutes. I think the chat keeps going. I don't actually know. I haven't tried it yet. So we'll find out here in a minute. Um, but thanks you all for being here, I will be back a little bit later, but, uh, coming up next on the live stuff is Peter Wood security. Ciao. Bye.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome to theCUBE studios of Palo Alto California for RSA conference keynote coverage and conference coverage. I'm Sean for your host of theCUBE. We're breaking down the keynote of RSA day one kickoff. We had Mark Nunnikhoven, who's the distinguished cloud strategist at Lacework. Mark former cube alumni and expert and security has been on many times before, Mark great to see you. Thanks for coming on and helping me break down RSA conference 2021 virtual this year. Thanks for joining. >> Happy to be here. Thanks for having me John. >> You know, one of the things Mark about these security conferences is that interesting, RSA was the last conference we actually did interviews physically face to face and then the pandemic went down and it was a huge shutdown. So we're still virtual coming back to real life. So and they're virtual this year, so kind of a turn of events, but that was kind of the theme this year in the keynote. Changing the game on security, the script has been flipped, connectivity everywhere, security from day one being reinvented. Some people were holding onto the old way some people trying to get on there, on the future wave. Clearly you got the laggards and you've got the innovators all trying to kind of, you know, find their position. This has been obvious in this keynote. What's your take? >> Yeah and that was exactly it. They use that situation of being that last physical security conference, somewhat to their advantage to weave this theme of resiliency. And it's a message that we heard throughout the keynote. It's a message we're going to hear throughout the week. There's a number of talks that are tying back to this and it really hits at the core of what security aims to do. And I think aims is really the right word for it because we're not quite there yet. But it's about making sure that our technology is flexible that it expands and adapts to the situations because as we all know this year, you know basically upended everything we assumed about how our businesses were running, how our communities and society was running and we've all had to adapt. And that's what we saw at the keynote today was they acknowledged that and then woven into the message to drive that home for security providers. >> Yeah and to me one of the most notable backdrops to the entire thing was the fact that the RSA continues to operate from the sell out when Dell sold them for alright $2 billion to a consortium, private privately private equity company, Symphony Technology Group. So there they're operating now on their own. They're out in the wild, as you said, cybersecurity threats are ever increasing, the surface area has changed with cloud native. Basically RSA is a 3000 person startup basically now. So they've got secure ID, the old token business we all have anyone's had those IDs you know it's pretty solid, but now they've got to kind of put this event back together and mobile world Congress is right around the corner. They're going to try to actually have a physical event. So you have this pandemic problem of trying to get the word out and it's weird. It's kind of, I found it. It's hard to get your hands around all the news. >> It is. And it's, you know, we're definitely missing that element. You know, we've seen that throughout the year people have tried to adapt these events into a virtual format. We're missing those elements of those sorts of happenstance run-ins I know we've run into each other at a number of events just sort of in the hall, you get to catch up, but you know as part of those interactions, they're not just social but you also get a little more insight into the conference. Hey, you know, did you catch this great talk or are you going to go catch this thing later? And we're definitely missing that. And I don't think anyone's really nailed this virtual format yet. It's very difficult to wrap your head around like you said, I saw a tweet online from one InfoSec analyst today. It was pointed out, you know, there were 17 talks happening at the same time, which you know, in a physical thing you'd pick one and go to it in a virtual there's that temptation to kind of click across the channels. So even if you know what's going on it's hard to focus in these events. >> Yeah the one conference has got a really good I think virtual platform is Docker con, they have 48 panels, a lot of great stuff there. So that's one of more watching closest coming up on May 27. Check that one out. Let's get into this, let's get into the analysis. I really want to get your thoughts on this because you know, I thought the keynote was very upbeat. Clearly the realities are presenting it. Chuck Robbins, the CEO of Cisco there and you had a bunch of industry legends in there. So let's start with, let's start with what you thought of Rowan's keynote and then we'll jump into what Chuck Robbins was saying. >> Sure yeah. And I thought, Rohit, you know, at first I questioned cause he brought up and he said, I'm going to talk about tigers, airplanes and sewing machines. And you know, as a speaker myself, I said, okay, this is either really going to work out well or it's not going to work out at all. Unfortunately, you know, Rohit head is a professional he's a great speaker and it worked out. And so he tied these three examples. So it was tiger king for Netflix, at World War II, analyzing airplane damage and a great organization in India that pivoted from sewing into creating masks and other supplies for the pandemic. He wove those three examples through with resiliency and showed adaptation. And I thought it was really really well done first of all. But as a cloud guy, I was really excited as well that that first example was Netflix. And he was referencing a chaos monkey, which is a chaos engineering tool, which I don't think a lot of security people are exposed to. So we use it very often in cloud building where essentially this tool will purposely blow up things in your environment. So it will down services. It will cut your communications off because the idea is you need to figure out how to react to these things before they happen for real. And so getting keynote time for a tool like that a very modern cloud tool, I thought was absolutely fantastic. Even if that's, you know, not so well known or not a secret in the cloud world anymore, it's very commonly understood, but getting a security audience exposure to that was great. And so you know, Rohit is a pro and it was a good kickoff and yeah, very upbeat, a lot of high energy which was great for virtual keynote. Cause sometimes that's what's really missing is that energy. >> Yeah, we like Rohit too. He's got some, he's got charisma. He also has his hand on the pulse. I think the chaos monkey point you're making is as a great call out because it's been around the DevOps community. But what that really shows I think and puts an exclamation point around this industry right now is that DevSecOps is here and it's never going away and cloud native and certainly the pandemic has shown that cloud scale speed data and now distributed computing with the edge, 5G has been mentioned, as you said, this is a real deal. So this is DevOps. This is infrastructure as code and security is being reinvented in it. This is a killer theme and it's kind of a wake-up call. What's your reaction to that? what's your take? >> Yeah, it absolutely is a wake-up call and it actually blended really well into a Rohit second point, which was around using data. And I think, you know, having these messages put out to the, you know, what is the security conference for the year always, is really important because the rest of the business has moved forward and security teams have been a little hesitant there, we're a little behind the times compared to the rest of the business who are taking advantage of these cloud services, taking advantage of data being everywhere. So for security professionals to realize like hey there are tools that can make us better at our jobs and make us, you know, keep or help us keep pace with the business is absolutely critical because like you said, as much as you know I always cringe when I hear the term DevSecOps, it's important because security needs to be there. The reason I cringe is because I think security should be built into everything. But the challenge we have is that security teams are still a lot of us are still stuck in the past to sort of put our arms around something. And you know, if it's in that box, I'm good with it. And that just doesn't work in the cloud. We have better tools, we have better data. And that was really Rohit's key message was those tools and that data can help you be resilient, can help your organization be resilient and whether that's the situation like a pandemic or a major cyber attack, you need to be flexible. You need to be able to bounce back. >> You know, when we actually have infrastructure as code and no one ever talks about DevOps or DevSecOps you know, we've, it's over, it's in the right place, but I want to get your thoughts and seeing if you heard anything about automation because one of the things that you bring up about not liking the word DevSecOps is really around, having this new team formation, how people are organizing their developers and their operations teams. And it really is becoming programmable and that's kind of the word, but automation scales it. So that's been a big theme this year. What are you hearing? What did you hear on the keynote? Any signs of reality around automation, machine learning you mentioned data, did they dig into automation? >> Automation was on the periphery. So a lot of what they're talking about only works with automation. So, you know, the Netflix shout out for chaos monkey absolutely as an automated tool to take advantage of this data, you absolutely need to be automated but the keynote mainly focused on sort of the connectivity and the differences in how we view an organization over the last year versus moving forward. And I think that was actually a bit of a miss because as you rightfully point out, John, you need automation. The thing that baffles me as a builder, as a security guy, is that cyber criminals have been automated for years. That's how they scale. That's how they make their money. Yet we still primarily defend manually. And I don't know if you've ever tried to beat, you know the robots that are everything or really complicated video games. We don't tend to win well when we're fighting automation. So security absolutely needs to step up. The good news is looking at the agenda for the week, taking in some talks today, while it was a bit of a miss and the keynote, there is a good theme of automation throughout some of the deeper dive sessions. So it is a topic that people are aware of and moving forward. But again, I always want to see us move fast. >> Was there a reason Chuck Robbins headlines or is that simply because there are a big 800 pound gorilla in the networking space? You know, why Cisco? Are they relevant security? Is that signaling that networking is more important? As of 5G at the edge, but is Cisco the player? >> Obviously Cisco has a massive business and they are a huge player in the security industry but I think they're also representative of, you know and this was definitely Chuck's message. They were representative of this idea that security needs to be built in at every layer. So even though, you know I live on primarily the cloud technologies dealing with organizations that are built in the cloud, there is, you know, the reality of that we are all connected through a multitude of networks. And we've seen that with work from home which is a huge theme this year at the conference and the improvements in mobility with 5G and other connectivity areas like Edge and WiFi six. So having a big network player and security player like Cisco in the keynote I think is important just because their message was not just about inclusion and diversity for skills which was a theme we saw repeated in the keynote actually but it was about building security in from the start to the finish throughout. And I think that's a really important message. We can't just pick one place and say this is where we're going to build security. It needs to be built throughout all of our systems. >> If you were a Cicso listening today what was your take on that? Were you impressed? Were you blown away? Did you fall out of your chair or was it just right down the middle? >> I mean, you might fall out of your chair just cause you're sitting in it for so long taken in a virtual event. And I mean, I know that's the big downside of virtual is that your step counter is way down compared to where it should be for these conferences but there was nothing revolutionary in the opening parts of the keynote. It was just, you know sort of beating the drum that has been talked about, has been simmering in the background from sort of the more progressive side of security. So if you've been focusing on primarily traditional techniques and the on-premise world, then perhaps this was a little a bit of an eye-opener and something where you go, wow, there's, you know there's something else out here and we can move things forward. For people who are, you know, more cloud native or more into that automation space, that data space this is really just sort of a head nodding going, yeap, I agree with this. This makes sense. This is where we all should be at this point. But as we know, you know there's a very long tail insecurity and insecurity organizations. So to have that message, you know repeated from a large stage like the keynote I think was very important. >> Well you know, we're going to be, theCUBE will be onsite and virtual with our virtual platform for Amazon web services reinforced coming up in Houston. So that's going to be interesting to see and you compare contrast like an AWS reinforce which is kind of the I there I think they had the first conference two years ago so it's kind of a new conference. And then you got the old kind of RSA conference. The question I have for you, is it a just a position of almost two conferences, right? You got the cloud native AWS, which is really about, oh shared responsibility, et cetera, et cetera a lot more action happening there. And you got this conference here seem come the old school legacy players. So I want to get your thoughts on that. And I want to get your take on just just the cryptographers panel, because, you know, as I'm not saying this as a state-of-the-art that the old guys saying get off my lawn, you know crypto, we're the crypto purists, they were trashing NFTs which as you know, is all the rage. So I, and Ron rivers who wrote new co-create RSA public key technology, which is isn't everything these days. Is this a sign of just get off my lawn? Or is it a sign of the times trashing the NFTs? What's your take? >> Yeah, well, so let's tackle the NFTs then we'll do the contrast between the two conferences. But I thought the NFT, you know Ron and Addie both had really interesting ways of explaining what an NFT was, because that's most of the discussion around the NFT is exactly what are we buying or what are we investing in? And so I think it was Addie who said, you know it was basically you have a tulip then you could have a picture of a tulip and then you could have something explaining the picture of the tulip and that's what an NFT is. So I think, you know, but at the same time he recognized the value of potential for artists. So I think there was some definitely, you know get off my lawn, but also sort of the the cryptographer panels is always sort of very pragmatic, very evidence-based as shown today when they actually were talking about a paper by Schnorr who debates, whether RSA or if he has new math that he thinks can debunk RSA or at least break the algorithm. And so they had a very logical and intelligent discussion about that. But the cryptographers panel in contrast to the rest of the keynote, it's not about the hype. It's not about what's going on in the industry. It's really is truly a cryptographers panel talking about the math, talking about the fundamental underpinnings of our security things as a big nerd, I'm a huge fan but a lot of people watch that and just kind of go, okay now's a great time to grab a snack and maybe move those legs a little bit. But if you're interested in the more technical deeper dive side, it's definitely worth taking in. >> Super fascinating and I think, you know, it's funny, they said it's not even a picture of a tulip it's s pointer to a picture of a tulip. Which is technically it. >> That was it. >> It's interesting how, again, this is all fun. NFTs are, I mean, you can't help, but get an Amber by decentralization. And that, that wave is coming. It's very interesting how you got a decentralization wave coming, yet a lot of people want to hang on to the centralized view. Okay, this is an architectural conflict. Is there a balance in your mind as a techie, we look at security, certainly as the perimeter is gone that's not even debate anymore, but as we have much more of a distributed computing environment, is there a need for some sensuality and or is it going to be all decentralized in your opinion? >> Yeah that's actually a really interesting question. It's a great set up to connect both of these points of sort of the cryptographers panel and that contrast between newer conferences and RSA because the cryptographers panel brought up the fact that you can't have resilient systems unless you're going for a distributed systems, unless you're spreading things out because otherwise you're creating a central point of failure, even if it's at hyper-scale which is not resilient by definition. So that was a very interesting and very valid point. I think the reality is it's a combination of the two is that we want resilient systems that are distributed that scale up independently of other factors. You know, so if you're sitting in the cloud you're going multi-region or maybe even multicloud, you know you want this distributed area just for that as Verner from AWS calls it, you know, the reduced blast radius. So if something breaks, not everything does but then the challenge from a security and from an operational point of view, is you need that central visibility. And I think this is where automation, where machine learning and really viewing security as a data problem, comes into play. If you have the systems distributed but you can provide visibility centrally which is something we can achieve with modern cloud technologies, you kind of hit that sweet spot. You've got resilient underpinnings in your systems but you as a team can actually understand what's going on because that was a, yet another point from Carmela and from Ross on the cryptographers panel when it comes to AI and machine learning, we're at the point where we don't really understand a lot of what's going on in the algorithm we kind of understand the output and the input. So again, it tied back to that resiliency. So I think that key is distributed systems are great but you need that central visibility and you only get there through viewing things as a data problem, heavy automation and modern tooling. >> Great great insight, Mark. Great, great call out there. And great point tied in there. Let me ask you a question on your take on the keynote in the conference in general as first day gets going. Do you see this evolving from the classic enterprise kind of buyer supplier relationship to much more of a CSO driven or CXO driven? I need to start building about my teams. I got to start hiring developers, not so much in operation side. I mean, I see InfoSec is these industries are not going away. People are still buying tools and stacking up the tool shed but there's been a big trend towards platforms and shifting left from a developer CICB pipeline standpoint which speaks to scale on the cloud native side and that distributed side. So is this conference hitting that Mark, or you still think there are more hardware and service systems people? What's the makeup? What's the take? >> I think we're definitely starting to a shift. So a great example of that is the CSA. The Cloud Security Alliance always runs a day one or day zero summit at RSA. And this year it was a CSO executive summit. And whereas in previous years it's been practitioners. So that is a good sign I think, that's a positive sign to start to look at a long ignored area of security, which is how do we train the next generation of security professionals. We've always taken this traditional view. We've, you know, people go through the standard you get your CISSP, you hold onto it forever. You know, you do your time on the firewall, you go through the standard thing but I think we really need to adjust and look for people with that automation capability, with development, with better business skills and definitely better communication skills, because really as we integrate as we leave our sort of protected little cave of security, we need to be better business people and better team players. >> Well Mark, I really appreciate you coming on here. A cube alumni and a trusted resource and verified, trusted contributor. Thank you for coming on and sharing your thoughts on the RSA conference and breaking down the keynote analysis, the RSA conference. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Well, what we got you here to take a minute to plug what you're doing at Lacework, what you're excited about. What's going on over there? >> Sure, I appreciate that. So I just joined Lacework, I'm a weekend. So I'm drinking from the fire hose of knowledge and what I've found so far, fantastic platform, fantastic teams. It's got me wrapped up and excited again because we're approaching, you know security from the data point of view. We're really, we're born in the cloud, built for the cloud and we're trying to help teams really gather context. And the thing that appealed to me about that was that it's not just targeting the security team. It's targeting builders, it's targeting the business, it's giving them that visibility into what's going on so that they can make informed decision. And for me, that's really what security is all about. >> Well, I appreciate you coming on. Thanks so much for sharing. >> Thank you. >> Okay CUBE coverage of RSA conference here with Lacework, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>mhm Yes. >>Welcome back to the Cube coverage of Red Hat summit 21 2021. I'm john for host of the Cubans virtual this year as we start preparing to come out of Covid a lot of great conversations here happening around technology. This is the emerging technology with Red hat segment. We've got three great guests steve watt manager, distinguished engineer at Red Hat hurl saying senior software engineer Red Hat and luke Hines, who's the senior software engineer as well. We got the engineering team steve, you're the the team leader, emerging tech within red hat. Always something to talk about. You guys have great tech chops that's well known in the industry and I'll see now part of IBM you've got a deep bench um what's your, how do you view emerging tech um how do you apply it? How do you prioritize, give us a quick overview of the emerging tech scene at Redhead? >>Yeah, sure. It's quite a conflated term. The way we define emerging technologies is that it's a technology that's typically 18 months plus out from commercialization and this can sometimes go six months either way. Another thing about it is it's typically not something on any of our product roadmaps within the portfolio. So in some sense, it's often a bit of a surprise that we have to react to. >>So no real agenda. And I mean you have some business unit kind of probably uh but you have to have first principles within red hat, but for this you're looking at kind of the moon shot, so to speak, the big game changing shifts. Quantum, you know, you got now supply chain from everything from new economics, new technology because that kind of getting it right. >>Yeah, I think we we definitely use a couple of different techniques to prioritize and filter what we're doing. And the first is something will pop up and it will be like, is it in our addressable market? So our addressable market is that we're a platform software company that builds enterprise software and so, you know, it's got to be sort of fit into that is a great example if somebody came up came to us with an idea for like a drone command center, which is a military application, it is an emerging technology, but it's something that we would pass on. >>Yeah, I mean I didn't make sense, but he also, what's interesting is that you guys have an open source D N A. So it's you have also a huge commercial impact and again, open sources of one of the 4th, 5th generation of awesomeness. So, you know, the good news is open source is well proven. But as you start getting into this more disruption, you've got the confluence of, you know, core cloud, cloud Native, industrial and IOT edge and data. All this is interesting, right. This is where the action is. How do you guys bring that open source community participation? You got more stakeholders emerging there before the break down, how that you guys manage all that complexity? >>Yeah, sure. So I think that the way I would start is that, you know, we like to act on good ideas, but I don't think good ideas come from any one place. And so we typically organize our teams around sort of horizontal technology sectors. So you've got, you know, luke who's heading up security, but I have an edge team, cloud networking team, a cloud storage team. Cloud application platforms team. So we've got these sort of different areas that we sort of attack work and opportunities, but you know, the good ideas can come from a variety of different places. So we try and leverage co creation with our customers and our partners. So as a good example of something we had to react to a few years ago, it was K Native right? So the sort of a new way of doing service um and eventing on top of kubernetes that was originated from google. Whereas if you look at Quantum right, ibms, the actual driver on quantum science and uh that originated from IBM were parole. We'll talk about exactly how we chose to respond to that. Some things are originated organically within the team. So uh luke talking about six law is a great example of that, but we do have a we sort of use the addressable market as a way to sort of focus what we're doing and then we try and land it within our different emerging technologies teams to go tackle it. Now. You asked about open source communities, which are quite interesting. Um so typically when you look at an open source project, it's it's there to tackle a particular problem or opportunity. Sometimes what you actually need commercial vendors to do is when there's a problem or opportunity that's not tackled by anyone open source project, we have to put them together to create a solution to go tackle that thing. That's also what we do. And so we sort of create this bridge between red hat and our customers and multiple different open source projects. And this is something we have to do because sometimes just that one open source project doesn't really care that much about that particular problem. They're motivated elsewhere. And so we sort of create that bridge. >>We got two great uh cohorts here and colleagues parole on the on the Quantum side and you got luke on the security side. Pro I'll start with you. Quantum is also a huge mentioned IBM great leadership there. Um Quantum on open shift. I mean come on. Just that's not coming together for me in my mind, it's not the first thing I think of. But it really that sounds compelling. Take us through, you know, um how this changes the computing landscape because heterogeneous systems is what we want and that's the world we live in. But now with distributed systems and all kinds of new computing modules out there, how does this makes sense? Take us through this? >>Um yeah john's but before I think I want to explain something which is called Quantum supremacy because it plays very important role in the road map that's been working on. So uh content computers, they are evolving and they have been around. But right now you see that they are going to be the next thing. And we define quantum supremacy as let's say you have any program that you run or any problems that you solve on a classical computer. Quantum computer would be giving you the results faster. So that is uh, that is how we define content supremacy when the same workload are doing better on content computer than they do in a classical computer. So the whole the whole drive is all the applications are all the companies, they're trying to find avenues where Quantum supremacy are going to change how they solve problems or how they run their applications. And even though quantum computers they are there. But uh, it is not as easily accessible for everyone to consume because it's it's a very new area that's being formed. So what, what we were thinking, how we can provide a mechanism that you can you don't connect this deal was you have a classical world, you have a country world and that's where a lot of thought process been. And we said okay, so with open shift we have the best of the classical components. You can take open shift, you can develop, deploy around your application in a country raised platform. What about you provide a mechanism that the world clothes that are running on open shift. They are also consuming quantum resources or they are able to run the competition and content computers take the results and integrate them in their normal classical work clothes. So that is the whole uh that was the whole inception that we have and that's what brought us here. So we took an operator based approach and what we are trying to do is establish the best practices that you can have these heterogeneous applications that can have classical components. Talking to our interacting the results are exchanging data with the quantum components. >>So I gotta ask with the rise of containers now, kubernetes at the center of the cloud native value proposition, what work clothes do you see benefiting from the quantum systems the most? Is there uh you guys have any visibility on some of those workloads? >>Uh So again, it's it's a very new, it's very it's really very early in the time and uh we talk with our customers and every customers, they are trying to identify themselves first where uh these contacts supremacy will be playing the role. What we are trying to do is when they reach their we should have a solution that they that they could uh use the existing in front that they have on open shift and use it to consume the content computers that may or may not be uh, inside their own uh, cloud. >>Well I want to come back and ask you some of the impact on the landscape. I want to get the look real quick because you know, I think security quantum break security, potentially some people have been saying, but you guys are also looking at a bunch of projects around supply chain, which is a huge issue when it comes to the landscape, whether its components on a machine in space to actually handling, you know, data on a corporate database. You guys have sig store. What's this about? >>Sure. Yes. So sick store a good way to frame six store is to think of let's encrypt and what let's encrypt did for website encryption is what we plan to do for software signing and transparency. So six Door itself is an umbrella organization that contains various different open source projects that are developed by the Six door community. Now, six door will be brought forth as a public good nonprofit service. So again, we're very much basing this on the successful model of let's Encrypt Six door will will enable developers to sign software artifacts, building materials, containers, binaries, all of these different artifacts that are part of the software supply chain. These can be signed with six door and then these signing events are recorded into a technology that we call a transparency log, which means that anybody can monitor signing events and a transparency log has this nature of being read only and immutable. It's very similar to a Blockchain allows you to have cryptographic proof auditing of our software supply chain and we've made six stores so that it's easy to adopt because traditional cryptographic signing tools are a challenge for a lot of developers to implement in their open source projects. They have to think about how to store the private keys. Do they need specialist hardware? If they were to lose a key then cleaning up afterwards the blast radius. So the key compromise can be incredibly difficult. So six doors role and purpose essentially is to make signing easy easy to adopt my projects. And then they have the protections around there being a public transparency law that could be monitored. >>See this is all about open. Being more open. Makes it more secure. Is the >>thief? Very much yes. Yes. It's that security principle of the more eyes on the code the better. >>So let me just back up, is this an open, you said it's gonna be a nonprofit? >>That's correct. Yes. Yes. So >>all of the code is developed by the community. It's all open source. anybody can look at this code. And then we plan alongside the Linux Foundation to launch a public good service. So this will make it available for anybody to use if your nonprofit free to use service. >>So luke maybe steve if you can way into on this. I mean, this goes back. If you look back at some of the early cloud days, people were really trashing cloud as there's no security. And cloud turns out it's a more security now with cloud uh, given the complexity and scale of it, does that apply the same here? Because I feel this is a similar kind of concept where it's open, but yet the more open it is, the more secure it is. And then and then might have to be a better fit for saying I. T. Security solution because right now everyone is scrambling on the I. T. Side. Um whether it's zero Trust or Endpoint Protection, everyone's kind of trying everything in sight. This is kind of changing the paradigm a little bit on software security. Could you comment on how you see this playing out in traditional enterprises? Because if this plays out like the cloud, open winds, >>so luke, why don't you take that? And then I'll follow up with another lens on it which is the operate first piece. >>Sure. Yes. So I think in a lot of ways this has to be open this technology because this way we have we have transparency. The code can be audited openly. Okay. Our operational procedures can be audit openly and the community can help to develop not only are code but our operational mechanisms so we look to use technology such as cuba netease, open ship operators and so forth. Uh Six store itself runs completely in a cloud. It is it is cloud native. Okay, so it's very much in the paradigm of cloud and yeah, essentially security, always it operates better when it's open, you know, I found that from looking at all aspects of security over the years that I've worked in this realm. >>Okay, so just just to add to that some some other context around Six Law, that's interesting, which is, you know, software secure supply chain, Sixth floor is a solution to help build more secure software secure supply chains, more secure software supply chain. And um so um there's there's a growing community around that and there's an ecosystem of sort of cloud native kubernetes centric approaches for building more secure software. I think we all caught the solar winds attack. It's sort of enterprise software industry is responding sort of as a whole to go and close out as many of those gaps as possible, reduce the attack surface. So that's one aspect about why 6th was so interesting. Another thing is how we're going about it. So we talked about um you mentioned some of the things that people like about open source, which is one is transparency, so sunlight is the best disinfectant, right? Everybody can see the code, we can kind of make it more secure. Um and then the other is agency where basically if you're waiting on a vendor to go do something, um if it's proprietary software, you you really don't have much agency to get that vendor to go do that thing. Where is the open source? If you don't, if you're tired of waiting around, you can just submit the patch. So, um what we've seen with package software is with open source, we've had all this transparency and agency, but we've lost it with software as a service, right? Where vendors or cloud service providers are taking package software and then they're making it available as a service but that operationalize ng that software that is proprietary and it doesn't get contributed back. And so what Lukes building here as long along with our partners down, Lawrence from google, very active contributor in it. Um, the, is the operational piece to actually run sixth or as a public service is part of the open source project so people can then go and take sixth or maybe run it as a smaller internal service. Maybe they discover a bug, they can fix that bug contributed back to the operational izing piece as well as the traditional package software to basically make it a much more robust and open service. So you bring that transparency and the agency back to the SAS model as well. >>Look if you don't mind before, before uh and this segment proportion of it. The importance of immune ability is huge in the world of data. Can you share more on that? Because you're seeing that as a key part of the Blockchain for instance, having this ability to have immune ability. Because you know, people worry about, you know, how things progress in this distributed world. You know, whether from a hacking standpoint or tracking changes, Mutability becomes super important and how it's going to be preserved in this uh new six doorway. >>Oh yeah, so um mutability essentially means cannot be changed. So the structure of something is set. If it is anyway tampered or changed, then it breaks the cryptographic structure that we have of our public transparency service. So this way anybody can effectively recreate the cryptographic structure that we have of this public transparency service. So this mutability provides trust that there is non repudiation of the data that you're getting. This data is data that you can trust because it's built upon a cryptographic foundation. So it has very much similar parallels to Blockchain. You can trust Blockchain because of the immutable nature of it. And there is some consensus as well. Anybody can effectively download the Blockchain and run it themselves and compute that the integrity of that system can be trusted because of this immutable nature. So that's why we made this an inherent part of Six door is so that anybody can publicly audit these events and data sets to establish that there tamper free. >>That is a huge point. I think one of the things beyond just the security aspect of being hacked and protecting assets um trust is a huge part of our society now, not just on data but everything, anything that's reputable, whether it's videos like this being deep faked or you know, or news or any information, all this ties to security again, fundamentally and amazing concepts. Um I really want to keep an eye on this great work. Um Pearl, I gotta get back to you on Quantum because again, you can't, I mean people love Quantum. It's just it feels like so sci fi and it's like almost right here, right, so close and it's happening. Um And then people get always, what does that mean for security? We go back to look and ask them well quantum, you know, crypto But before we get started I wanted, I'm curious about how that's gonna play out from the project because is it going to be more part of like a C. N. C. F. How do you bring the open source vibe to Quantum? >>Uh so that's a very good question because that was a plan, the whole work that we are going to do related to operators to enable Quantum is managed by the open source community and that project lies in the casket. So casket has their own open source community and all the modification by the way, I should first tell you what excuse did so cute skin is the dedicate that you use to develop circuits that are run on IBM or Honeywell back in. So there are certain Quantum computers back and that support uh, circuits that are created using uh Houston S ticket, which is an open source as well. So there is already a community around this which is the casket. Open source community and we have pushed the code and all the maintenance is taken care of by that community. Do answer your question about if we are going to integrate it with C and C. F. That is not in the picture right now. We are, it has a place in its own community and it is also very niche to people who are working on the Quantum. So right now you have like uh the contributors who who are from IBM as well as other uh communities that are specific specifically working on content. So right now I don't think so, we have the map to integrated the C. N. C. F. But open source is the way to go and we are on that tragic Torri >>you know, we joke here the cube that a cubit is coming around the corner can can help but we've that in you know different with a C. But um look, I want to ask you one of the things that while you're here your security guru. I wanted to ask you about Quantum because a lot of people are scared that Quantum is gonna crack all the keys on on encryption with his power and more hacking. You're just comment on that. What's your what's your reaction to >>that? Yes that's an incredibly good question. This will occur. Okay. And I think it's really about preparation more than anything now. One of the things that we there's a principle that we have within the security world when it comes to coding and designing of software and this aspect of future Cryptography being broken. As we've seen with the likes of MD five and Sha one and so forth. So we call this algorithm agility. So this means that when you write your code and you design your systems you make them conducive to being able to easily swap and pivot the algorithms that use. So the encryption algorithms that you have within your code, you do not become too fixed to those. So that if as computing gets more powerful and the current sets of algorithms are shown to have inherent security weaknesses, you can easily migrate and pivot to a stronger algorithms. So that's imperative. Lee is that when you build code, you practice this principle of algorithm agility so that when shot 256 or shot 5 12 becomes the shar one. You can swap out your systems. You can change the code in a very least disruptive way to allow you to address that floor within your within your code in your software projects. >>You know, luke. This is mind bender right there. Because you start thinking about what this means is when you think about algorithmic agility, you start thinking okay software countermeasures automation. You start thinking about these kinds of new trends where you need to have that kind of signature capability. You mentioned with this this project you're mentioning. So the ability to actually who signs off on these, this comes back down to the paradigm that you guys are talking about here. >>Yes, very much so. There's another analogy from the security world, they call it turtles all the way down, which is effectively you always have to get to the point that a human or a computer establishes that first point of trust to sign something off. And so so it is it's a it's a world that is ever increasing in complexity. So the best that you can do is to be prepared to be as open as you can to make that pivot as and when you need to. >>Pretty impressive, great insight steve. We can talk for hours on this panel, emerging tech with red hat. Just give us a quick summary of what's going on. Obviously you've got a serious brain trust going on over there. Real world impact. You talk about the future of trust, future of software, future of computing, all kind of going on real time right now. This is not so much R and D as it is the front range of tech. Give us a quick overview of >>Yeah, sure, yeah, sure. The first thing I would tell everyone is go check out next that red hat dot com, that's got all of our different projects, who to contact if you're interested in learning more about different areas that we're working on. And it also lists out the different areas that we're working on, but just as an overview. So we're working on software defined storage, cloud storage. Sage. Well, the creator of Cf is the person that leads that group. We've got a team focused on edge computing. They're doing some really cool projects around um very lightweight operating systems that and kubernetes, you know, open shift based deployments that can run on, you know, devices that you screw into the sheet rock, you know, for that's that's really interesting. Um We have a cloud networking team that's looking at over yin and just intersection of E B P F and networking and kubernetes. Um and then uh you know, we've got an application platforms team that's looking at Quantum, but also sort of how to advance kubernetes itself. So that's that's the team where you got the persistent volume framework from in kubernetes and that added block storage and object storage to kubernetes. So there's a lot of really exciting things going on. Our charter is to inform red hats long term technology strategy. We work the way my personal philosophy about how we do that is that Red hat has product engineering focuses on their product roadmap, which is by nature, you know, the 6 to 9 months. And then the longer term strategy is set by both of us. And it's just that they're not focused on it. We're focused on it and we spend a lot of time doing disambiguate nation of the future and that's kind of what we do. We love doing it. I get to work with all these really super smart people. It's a fun job. >>Well, great insights is super exciting, emerging tack within red hat. I'll see the industry. You guys are agile, your open source and now more than ever open sources, uh, product Ization of open source is happening at such an accelerated rate steve. Thanks for coming on parole. Thanks for coming on luke. Great insight all around. Thanks for sharing. Uh, the content here. Thank you. >>Our pleasure. >>Thank you. >>Okay. We were more, more redhead coverage after this. This video. Obviously, emerging tech is huge. Watch some of the game changing action here at Redhead Summit. I'm john ferrier. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>welcome back. And thanks for joining us for our second session. External data, your new leading indicators. We'll be hearing from industry leaders as they share best practices and challenges in leveraging external data. This panel will be a true conversation on the part of the possible. All right, let's get to >>it >>today. We're excited to be joined by thought spots. Chief Data Strategy Officer Cindy Housing Deloitte's chief data officer Manteo, the founder and CEO of Eagle Alfa. And it Kilduff and Snowflakes, VP of data marketplace and customer product strategy. Matt Glickman. Cindy. Without further ado, the floor is yours. >>Thank you, Mallory. And I am thrilled to have this brilliant team joining us from around the world. And they really bring each a very unique perspective. So I'm going to start from further away. Emmett, Welcome. Where you joining us from? >>Thanks for having us, Cindy. I'm joining from Dublin, Ireland, >>great. And and tell us a little bit about Eagle Alfa. What do you dio >>from a company's perspective? Think of Eagle Alfa as an aggregator off all the external data sets on a word I'll use a few times. Today is a big advantage we could bring companies is we have a data concierge service. There's so much data we can help identify the right data sets depending on the specific needs of the company. >>Yeah. And so, Emma, you know, people think I was a little I kind of shocked the industry. Going from gardener to a tech startup. Um, you have had a brave journey as well, Going from financial services to starting this company, really pioneering it with I think the most data sets of any of thes is that right? >>Yes, it was. It was a big jump to go from Morgan Stanley. Uh, leave the comforts of that environment Thio, PowerPoint deck and myself raising funding eight years ago s So it was a big jump on. We were very early in our market. It's in the last few years where there's been real momentum and adoption by various types of verticals. The hedge funds were first, maybe then private equity, but corporate sar are following quite quickly from behind. That will be the biggest users, in our view, by by a significant distance. >>Yeah, great. Thank um, it So we're going to go a little farther a field now, but back to the U. S. So, Juan, where you joining us from? >>Hey, Cindy. Thanks for having me. I'm joining you from Houston, Texas. >>Great. Used to be my home. Yeah, probably see Rice University back there. And you have a distinct perspective serving both Deloitte customers externally, but also internally. Can you tell us about that? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I serve as the Lord consultants, chief data officer, and as a professional service firm, I have the responsibility for overseeing our overall data agenda, which includes both the way we use data and insights to run and operate our own business, but also in how we develop data and insights services that we then take to market and how we serve our dealers and clients. >>Great. Thank you, Juan. And last but not least, Matt Glickman. Kind of in my own backyard in New York. Right, Matt? >>Correct. Joining I haven't been into the city and many months, but yes, um, based in New York. >>Okay. Great. And so, Matt, you and Emmett also, you know, brave pioneers in this space, and I'm remembering a conversation you and I shared when you were still a J. P. Morgan, I believe. And you're Goldman Sachs. Sorry. Sorry. Goldman. Can you Can you share that with us? >>Sure. I made the move back in 2015. Um, when everyone thought, you know, my wife, my wife included that I was crazy. I don't know if I would call it Comfortable was emitted, but particularly had been there for a long time on git suffered in some ways. A lot of the pains we're talking about today, given the number of data, says that the amount of of new data sets that are always demand for having run analytics teams at Goldman, seeing the pain and realizing that this pain was not unique to Goldman Sachs, it was being replicated everywhere across the industry, um, in a mind boggling way and and the fortuitous, um, luck to have one of snowflakes. Founders come to pitch snowflake to Goldman a little bit early. Um, they became a customer later, but a little bit early in 2014. And, you know, I realized that this was clearly, you know, the answer from first principles on bond. If I ever was going to leave, this was a problem. I was acutely aware of. And I also was aware of how much the man that was in financial services for a better solution and how the cloud could really solve this problem in particular the ability to not have to move data in and out of these organizations. And this was something that I saw the future of. Thank you, Andi, that this was, you know, sort of the pain that people just expected to pay. Um, this price if you need a data, there was method you had thio. You had to use you either ftp data in and out. You had data that was being, you know, dropped off and, you know, maybe in in in a new ways and cloud buckets or a P i s You have to suck all this data down and reconstruct it. And God forbid the formats change. It was, you know, a nightmare. And then having issues with data, you had a what you were seeing internally. You look nothing like what the data vendors were seeing because they want a completely different system, maybe model completely differently. Um, but this was just the way things were. Everyone had firewalls. Everyone had their own data centers. There was no other way on git was super costly. And you know this. I won't even share the the details of you know, the errors that would occur in the pain that would come from that, Um what I realized it was confirmed. What I saw it snowflake at the time was once everyone moves to run their actual workloads in this in the cloud right where you're now beyond your firewall, you'll have all this scale. But on top of that, you'll be able to point at data from these vendors were not there the traditional data vendors. Or, you know, this new wave of alternative data vendors, for example, like the ones that eagle out for brings together And bring these all these data sets together with your own internal data without moving it. Yeah, this was a fundamental shift of what you know, it's in some ways, it was a side effect of everyone moving to the cloud for costs and scale and elasticity. But as a side effect of that is what we talked about, You know it snowflake summit, you know, yesterday was this notion of a data cloud that would connect data between regions between cloud vendors between customers in a way where you could now reference data. Just like your reference websites today, I don't download CNN dot com. I point at it, and it points me to something else. I'm always seeing the latest version, obviously, and we can, you know, all collaborate on what I'm seeing on that website. That's the same thing that now can happen with data. So And I saw this as what was possible, and I distinctly asked the question, you know, the CEO of the time Is this possible? And not only was it possible it was a fundamental construct that was built into the way that snowflake was delivered. And then, lastly, this is what we learned. And I think this is what you know. M It also has been touting is that it's all great if data is out there and even if you lower that bar of access where data doesn't have to move, how do I know? Right? If I'm back to sitting at Goldman Sachs, how do I know what data is available to me now in this this you know, connected data network eso we released our data marketplace, which was a very different kind of marketplace than these of the past. Where for us, it was really like a global catalog that would elect a consumer data consumer. Noah data was available, but also level the playing field. Now we're now, you know, Eagle, Alfa, or even, you know, a new alternative data vendor build something in their in their basement can now publish that data set so that the world could see and consume and be aligned to, you know, snowflakes, core business, and not where we wouldn't have to be competing or having to take, um, any kind of custody of that data. So adding that catalog to this now ubiquitous access, um really changed the game and, you know, and then now I seem like a genius for making this move. But back then, like I said, we've seen I seem like instant. I was insane. >>Well, given, given that snowflake was the hottest aipo like ever, you were a genius. Uh, doing this, you know, six years in advance. E think we all agree on that, But, you know, a lot of this is still visionary. Um, you know, some of the most leading companies are already doing this. But one What? What is your take our Are you best in class customers still moving the data? Or is this like they're at least thinking about data monetization? What are you seeing from your perspective? >>Yeah, I mean, I did you know, the overall appreciation and understanding of you know, one. I got to get my house in order around my data, um, has something that has been, you know, understood and acted upon. Andi, I do agree that there is a shift now that says, you know, data silos alone aren't necessarily gonna bring me, you know, new and unique insights on dso enriching that with external third party data is absolutely, you know, sort of the the ship that we're seeing our customers undergo. Um, what I find extremely interesting in this space and what some of the most mature clients are doing is, you know, really taking advantage of these data marketplaces. But building data partnerships right there from what mutually exclusive, where there is a win win scenario for for you know, that organization and that could be, you know, retail customers or life science customers like with pandemic, right the way we saw companies that weren't naturally sharing information are now building these data partnership right that are going are going into mutually benefit, you know, all organizations that are sort of part of that value to Andi. I think that's the sort of really important criteria. And how we're seeing our clients that are extremely successful at this is that partnership has benefits on both sides of that equation, right? Both the data provider and then the consumer of that. And there has to be, you know, some way to ensure that both parties are are are learning right, gaining you insights to support, you know, whatever their business organization going on. >>Yeah, great one. So those data partnerships getting across the full value chain of sharing data and analytics Emmett, you work on both sides of the equation here, helping companies. Let's say let's say data providers maybe, like, you know, cast with human mobility monetize that. But then also people that are new to it. Where you seeing the top use cases? Well, >>interestingly, I agree with one of the supply side. One of the interesting trends is we're seeing a lot more data coming from large Corporates. Whether they're listed are private equity backed, as opposed to maybe data startups that are earning money just through data monetization. I think that's a great trend. I think that means a lot of the best. Data said it data is yet to come, um, in terms off the tough economy and how that's changed. I think the category that's had the most momentum and your references is Geo location data. It's that was the category at our conference in December 2000 and 12 that was pipped as the category to watch in 2019. On it didn't become that at all. Um, there were some regulatory concerns for certain types of geo data, but with with covert 19, it's Bean absolutely critical for governments, ministries of finance, central banks, municipalities, Thio crunch that data to understand what's happening in a real time basis. But from a company perspective, it's obviously critical as well. In terms of planning when customers might be back in the High Street on DSO, fourth traditionally consumer transaction data of all the 26 categories in our taxonomy has been the most popular. But Geo is definitely catching up your slide. Talked about being a tough economy. Just one point to contradict that for certain pockets of our clients, e commerce companies are having a field day, obviously, on they are very data driven and tech literate on day are they are really good client base for us because they're incredibly hungry, firm or data to help drive various, uh, decision making. >>Yeah, So fair enough. Some sectors of the economy e commerce, electron, ICS, healthcare are doing great. Others travel, hospitality, Um, super challenging. So I like your quote. The best is yet to come, >>but >>that's data sets is yet to come. And I do think the cloud is enabling that because we could get rid of some of the messy manual data flows that Matt you talked about, but nonetheless, Still, one of the hardest things is the data map. Things combining internal and external >>when >>you might not even have good master data. Common keys on your internal data. So any advice for this? Anyone who wants to take that? >>Sure I can. I can I can start. That's okay. I do think you know, one of the first problems is just a cataloging of the information that's out there. Um, you know, at least within our organization. When I took on this role, we were, you know, a large buyer of third party data. But our organization as a whole didn't necessarily have full visibility into what was being bought and for what purpose. And so having a catalog that helps us internally navigate what data we have and how we're gonna use it was sort of step number one. Um, so I think that's absolutely important. Um, I would say if we could go from having that catalog, you know, created manually to more automated to me, that's sort of the next step in our evolution, because everyone is saying right, the ongoing, uh, you know, creation of new external data sets. It's only going to get richer on DSO. We wanna be able to take advantage of that, you know, at the at the pacing speed, that data is being created. So going from Emanuel catalog to anonymous >>data >>catalog, I think, is a key capability for us. But then you know, to your second point, Cindy is how doe I then connect that to our own internal data to drive greater greater insights and how we run our business or how we serve our customers. Andi, that one you know really is a It's a tricky is a tricky, uh, question because I think it just depends on what data we're looking toe leverage. You know, we have this concept just around. Not not all data is created equal. And when you think about governance and you think about the management of your master data, your internal nomenclature on how you define and run your business, you know that that entire ecosystem begins to get extremely massive and it gets very broad and very deep on DSO for us. You know, government and master data management is absolutely important. But we took a very sort of prioritized approach on which domains do we really need to get right that drive the greatest results for our organization on dso mapping those domains like client data or employee data to these external third party data sources across this catalog was really the the unlocked for us versus trying to create this, you know, massive connection between all the external data that we're, uh, leveraging as well as all of our own internal data eso for us. I think it was very. It was a very tailored, prioritized approach to connecting internal data to external data based on the domains that matter most to our business. >>So if the domains so customer important domain and maybe that's looking at things, um, you know, whether it's social media data or customer transactions, you prioritized first by that, Is that right? >>That's correct. That's correct. >>And so, then, Matt, I'm going to throw it back to you because snowflake is in a unique position. You actually get to see what are the most popular data sets is is that playing out what one described are you seeing that play out? >>I I'd say Watch this space. Like like you said. I mean this. We've you know, I think we start with the data club. We solve that that movement problem, which I think was really the barrier that you tended to not even have a chance to focus on this mapping problem. Um, this notion of concordance, I think this is where I see the big next momentum in this space is going to be a flurry of traditional and new startups who deliver this concordance or knowledge graph as a service where this is no longer a problem that I have to solve internal to my organization. The notion of mastering which is again when everyone has to do in every organization like they used to have to do with moving data into the organization goes away. And this becomes like, I find the best of breed for the different scopes of data that I have. And it's delivered to me as a, you know, as a cloud service that just takes my data. My internal data maps it to these 2nd and 3rd party data sets. Um, all delivered to me, you know, a service. >>Yeah, well, that would be brilliant concordance as a service or or clean clean master data as a service. Um, using augmented data prep would be brilliant. So let's hope we get there. Um, you know, so 2020 has been a wild ride for everyone. If I could ask each of you imagine what is the art of the possible or looking ahead to the next to your and that you are you already mentioned the best is yet to come. Can you want to drill down on that. What what part of the best is yet to come or what is your already two possible? >>Just just a brief comment on mapping. Just this week we published a white paper on mapping, which is available for for anyone on eagle alfa dot com. It's It's a massive challenge. It's very difficult to solve. Just with technology Onda people have tried to solve it and get a certain level of accuracy, but can't get to 100% which which, which, which makes it difficult to solve it. If if if there is a new service coming out against 100% I'm all ears and that there will be a massive step forward for the entire data industry, even if it comes in a few years time, let alone next year, I think going back to the comment on data Cindy. Yes, I think boards of companies are Mawr and Mawr. Viewing data as an asset as opposed to an expense are a cost center on bond. They are looking therefore to get their internal house in order, as one was saying, but also monetize the data they are sitting on lots of companies. They're sitting on potentially valuable data. It's not all valuable on a lot of cases. They think it's worth a lot more than it is being frank. But in some cases there is valuable data on bond. If monetized, it can drop to the bottom line on. So I think that bodes well right across the world. A lot of the best date is yet to come on. I think a lot of firms like Deloitte are very well positioned to help drive that adoption because they are the trusted advisor to a lot of these Corporates. Um, so that's one thing. I think, from a company perspective. It's still we're still at the first base. It's quite frustrating how slow a lot of companies are to move and adopt, and some of them are haven't hired CDO. Some of them don't have their internal house in order. I think that has to change next year. I think if we have this conference at this time next year, I would expect that would hopefully be close to the tipping point for Corporates to use external data. And the Malcolm Gladwell tipping point on the final point I make is I think, that will hopefully start to see multi department use as opposed to silos again. Parliaments and silos, hopefully will be more coordinated on the company's side. Data could be used by marketing by sales by r and D by strategy by finance holds external data. So it really, hopefully will be coordinated by this time next year. >>Yeah, Thank you. So, to your point, there recently was an article to about one of the airlines that their data actually has more value than the company itself now. So I know, I know. We're counting on, you know, integrators trusted advisers like Deloitte to help us get there. Uh, one what? What do you think? And if I can also drill down, you know, financial services was early toe all of this because they needed the early signals. And and we talk about, you know, is is external data now more valuable than internal? Because we need those early signals in just such a different economy. >>Yeah, I think you know, for me, it's it's the seamless integration of all these external data sources and and the signals that organizations need and how to bring those into, you know, the day to day operations of your organization, right? So how do you bring those into, You know, you're planning process. How do you bring that into your sales process on DSO? I think for me success or or where I see the that the use and adoption of this is it's got to get down to that level off of operations for organizations. For this to continue to move at the pace and deliver the value that you know, we're all describing. I think we're going to get there. But I think until organizations truly get down to that level of operations and how they're using this data, it'll sort of seem like a Bolton, right? So for me, I think it's all about Mawr, the seamless integration. And I think to what Matt mentioned just around services that could help connect external data with internal data. I'll take that one step beyond and say, How can we have the data connect itself? Eso I had references Thio, you know, automation and machine learning. Um, there's significant advances in terms of how we're seeing, you know, mapping to occur in a auto generated fashion. I think this specific space and again the connection between external and internal data is a prime example of where we need to disrupt that, you know, sort of traditional data pipeline on. Try to automate that as much as possible. And let's have the data, you know, connect itself because it then sort of supports. You know, the first concept which waas How do we make it more seamless and integrated into, you know, the business processes of the organization's >>Yeah, great ones. So you two are thinking those automated, more intelligent data pipelines will get us there faster. Matt, you already gave us one. Great, Uh, look ahead, Any more to add to >>it, I'll give you I'll give you two more. One is a bit controversial, but I'll throw that you anyway, um, going back to the point that one made about data partnerships What you were saying Cindy about, you know, the value. These companies, you know, tends to be somehow sometimes more about the data they have than the actual service they provide. I predict you're going to see a wave of mergers and acquisitions. Um, that it's solely about locking down access to data as opposed to having data open up. Um to the broader, you know, economy, if I can, whether that be a retailer or, you know, insurance company was thes prime data assets. Um, you know, they could try to monetize that themselves, But if someone could acquire them and get exclusive access that data, I think that's going to be a wave of, um, in a that is gonna be like, Well, we bought this for this amount of money because of their data assets s. So I think that's gonna be a big wave. And it'll be maybe under the guise of data partnerships. But it really be about, you know, get locking down exclusive access to valuable data as opposed to trying toe monetize it itself number one. And then lastly, you know. Now, did you have this kind of ubiquity of data in this interconnected data network? Well, we're starting to see, and I think going to see a big wave of is hyper personalization of applications where instead of having the application have the data itself Have me Matt at Snowflake. Bring my data graph to applications. Right? This decoupling of we always talk about how you get data out of these applications. It's sort of the reverse was saying Now I want to bring all of my data access that I have 1st, 2nd and 3rd party into my application. Instead of having to think about getting all the data out of these applications, I think about it how when you you know, using a workout app in the consumer space, right? I can connect my Spotify or connect my apple music into that app to personalize the experience and bring my music list to that. Imagine if I could do that, you know, in a in a CRM. Imagine I could do that in a risk management. Imagine I could do that in a marketing app where I can bring my entire data graph with me and personalize that experience for, you know, for given what I have. And I think again, you know, partners like thoughts. But I think in a unique position to help enable that capability, you know, for this next wave of of applications that really take advantage of this decoupling of data. But having data flow into the app tied to me as opposed to having the APP have to know about my data ahead of time, >>Yeah, yeah, So that is very forward thinking. So I'll end with a prediction and a best practice. I am predicting that the organizations that really leverage external data, new data sources, not just whether or what have you and modernize those data flows will outperform the organizations that don't. And as a best practice to getting there, I the CDOs that own this have at least visibility into everything they're purchasing can save millions of dollars in duplicate spend. So, Thio, get their three key takeaways. Identify the leading indicators and market signals The data you need Thio. Better identify that. Consolidate those purchases and please explore the data sets the range of data sets data providers that we have on the thought spot. Atlas Marketplace Mallory over to you. >>Wow. Thank you. That was incredible. Thank you. To all of our Panelists for being here and sharing that wisdom. We really appreciate it. For those of you at home, stay close by. Our third session is coming right up and we'll be joined by our partner AWS and get to see how you can leverage the full power of your data cloud complete with the demo. Make sure to tune in to see you >>then

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome to cube three 60 fives coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today we are joined by a cube alum Karthik NurAin. He is Accenture senior managing director and lead Accenture cloud. First, welcome back to the show Karthik. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me here. >>Always a pleasure. So I want to talk to you. You are an industry veteran, you've been in Silicon Valley for decades. Um, I want to hear from your perspective what the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic has been, what are you hearing from clients? What are they struggling with? What are their challenges that they're facing day to day? >>I think, um, COVID-19 is being a eye-opener from, you know, various facets, you know, um, first and foremost, it's a, it's a head, um, situation that everybody's facing, which is not just, uh, highest economic bearings to it. It has enterprise, um, an organization with bedding to it. And most importantly, it's very personal to people, um, because they themselves and their friends, family near and dear ones are going to this challenge, uh, from various different dimension. But putting that aside, when you come to it from an organization enterprise standpoint, it has changed everything well, the behavior of organizations coming together, working in their campuses, working with each other as friends, family, and, uh, um, near and dear colleagues, all of them are operating differently. So that's what big change to get things done in a completely different way, from how they used to get things done. >>Number two, a lot of things that were planned for normal scenarios, like their global supply chain, how they interact with their client customers, how they coordinate with their partners on how that employees contribute to the success of an organization at all changed. And there are no data models that give them a hint of something like this for them to be prepared for this. So we are seeing organizations, um, that have adapted to this reasonably okay, and are, you know, launching to innovate faster in this. And there are organizations that have started with struggling, but are continuing to struggle. And the gap, uh, between the leaders and legs are widening. So this is creating opportunities in a different way for the leaders, um, with a lot of pivot their business, but it's also creating significant challenge for the lag guides, uh, as we defined in our future systems research that we did a year ago, uh, and those organizations are struggling further. So the gap is actually whitening. >>So you've just talked about the widening gap. I've talked about the tremendous uncertainty that so many companies, even the ones who have adapted reasonably well, uh, in this, in this time, talk a little bit about Accenture cloud first and why, why now? >>I think it's a great question. Um, we believe that for many of our clients COVID-19 has turned, uh, cloud from an experimentation aspiration to an origin mandate. What I mean by that is everybody has been doing something on the other end cloud. There's no company that says we don't believe in cloud. Uh, our, we don't want to do cloud. It was how much they did in cloud. And they were experimenting. They were doing the new things in cloud. Um, but they were operating a lot of their core business outside the cloud or not in the cloud. Those organizations have struggled to operate in this new normal, in a remote fashion as with us, uh, that ability to pivot to all the changes the pandemic has brought to them. But on the other hand, the organizations that had a solid foundation in cloud were able to collect faster and not actually gone into the stage of innovating faster and driving a new behavior in the market, new behavior within their organization. >>So we are seeing that spend to make is actually fast-forwarded something that we always believed was going to happen. This, uh, uh, moving to cloud over the next decade is fast, forwarded it to, uh, happen in the next three to five years. And it's created this moment where it's a once in an era, really replatforming of businesses in the cloud that we are going to see. And we see this moment as a cloud first moment where organizations will use cloud as the, the canvas and the foundation with which they're going to reimagine their business after they were born in the cloud. Uh, and this requires a whole new strategy. Uh, and as Accenture, we are getting a lot in cloud, but we thought that this is the moment where we bring all of that capabilities together because we need a strategy for addressing, moving to cloud are embracing cloud in a holistic fashion. And that's what Accenture cloud first brings together a holistic strategy, a team that's 70,000 plus people that's coming together with rich cloud skills, but investing to tie in all the various capabilities of cloud to Delaware, that holistic strategy to our clients. So I want you to >>Delve into a little bit more about what this strategy actually entails. I mean, it's clearly about embracing change and being willing to experiment and, and having capabilities to innovate. Can you tell us a little bit more about what this strategy entails? >>Yeah. The reason why we say that there's a need for the strategy is, like I said, COVID is not new. There's almost every customer client is doing something with the cloud, but all of them have taken different approaches to cloud and different boundaries to cloud. Some organizations say, I just need to consolidate my multiple data centers to a small data center footprint and move the nest to cloud. Certain other organizations say that well, I'm going to move certain workloads to cloud. Certain other organizations said, well, I'm going to build this Greenfield application or workload in cloud. Certain other said, um, I'm going to use the power of AI ML in the cloud to analyze my data and drive insights. But a cloud first strategy is all of this tied with the corporate strategy of the organization with an industry specific cloud journey to say, if in this current industry, if I were to be reborn in the cloud, would I do it in the exact same passion that I did in the past, which means that the products and services that they offer need to be the matching, how they interact with that customers and partners need to be revisited, how they bird and operate their IP systems need to be the, imagine how they unearthed the data from all the systems under which they attract need to be liberated so that you could drive insights of cloud. >>First strategy. Hans is a corporate wide strategy, and it's a C-suite responsibility. It doesn't take the ownership away from the CIO or CIO, but the CIO is, and CDI was felt that it was just their problem and they were to solve it. And everyone as being a customer, now, the center of gravity is elevated to it becoming a C-suite agenda on everybody's agenda, where probably the CDI is the instrument to execute that that's a holistic cloud-first strategy >>And it, and it's a strategy, but the way you're describing it, it sounds like it's also a mindset and an approach, as you were saying, this idea of being reborn in the cloud. So now how do I think about things? How do I communicate? How do I collaborate? How do I get done? What I need to get done. Talk a little bit about how this has changed, the way you support your clients and how Accenture cloud first is changing your approach to cloud services. >>Wonderful. Um, you know, I did not color one very important aspect in my previous question, but that's exactly what you just asked me now, which is to do all of this. I talked about all of the vehicles, uh, an organization or an enterprise is going to go to, but the good part is they have one constant. And what is that? That is their employees, uh, because you do, the employees are able to embrace this change. If they are able to, uh, change them, says, pivot them says retool and train themselves to be able to operate in this new cloud. First one, the ability to reimagine every function of the business would be happening at speed. And cloud first approach is to do all of this at speed, because innovation is deadly proposed there, do the rate of probability on experimentation. You need to experiment a lot for any kind of experimentation. >>There's a probability of success. Organizations need to have an ability and a mechanism for them to be able to innovate faster for which they need to experiment a lot. The more the experiment and the lower cost at which they experiment is going to help them experiment a lot and experiment demic speed, fail fast, succeed more. And hence, they're going to be able to operate this at speed. So the cloud-first mindset is all about speed. I'm helping the clients fast track that innovation journey, and this is going to happen. Like I said, across the enterprise and every function across every department, I'm the agent of this change is going to be the employee's weapon, race, this change through new skills and new grueling and new mindset that they need to adapt to. >>So Karthik what you're describing it, it sounds so exciting. And yet for a pandemic wary workforce, that's been working remotely that may be dealing with uncertainty if for their kid's school and for so many other aspects of their life, it sounds hard. So how are you helping your clients, employees get onboard with this? And because the change management is, is often the hardest part. >>Yeah, I think it's, again, a great question. A bottle has only so much capacity. Something got to come off for something else to go in. That's what you're saying is absolutely right. And that is again, the power of cloud. The reason why cloud is such a fundamental breakthrough technology and capability for us to succeed in this era, because it helps in various forms. What we talked so far is the power of innovation that could create, but cloud can also simplify the life of the employees in an enterprise. There are several activities and tasks that people do in managing their complex infrastructure, complex ID landscape. They used to do certain jobs and activities in a very difficult, uh, underground about with cloud has simplified. And democratised a lot of these activities. So that things which had to be done in the past, like managing the complexity of the infrastructure, keeping them up all the time, managing the, um, the obsolescence of the capabilities and technologies and infrastructure, all of that could be offloaded to the cloud. >>So that the time that is available for all of these employees can be used to further innovate. Every organization is good to spend almost the same amount of money, but rather than spending activities, by looking at the rear view mirror on keeping the lights on, they're going to spend more money, more time, more energy, and spend their skills on things that are going to add value to their organization. Because you, every innovation that an enterprise can give to their end customer need not come from that enterprise. The word of platform economy is about democratising innovation. And the power of cloud is to get all of these capabilities from outside the four walls of the enterprise, >>It will add value to the organization, but I would imagine also add value to that employee's life because that employee, the employee will be more engaged in his or her job and therefore bring more excitement and energy into her, his or her day-to-day activities too. >>Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is, this is a normal evolution we would have seen everybody would have seen in their lives, that they keep moving up the value chain of what activities that, uh, gets performed buying by those individuals. And there's this, um, you know, no more true than how the United States, uh, as an economy has operated where, um, this is the power of a powerhouse of innovation, where the work that's done inside the country keeps moving up to that. You change. And, um, us leverages the global economy for a lot of things that is required to power the United States and that global economic, uh, phenomenon is very proof for an enterprise as well. There are things that an enterprise needs to do them soon. There are things an employee needs to do themselves. Um, but there are things that they could leverage from the external innovation and the power of innovation that is coming from technologies like cloud. >>So at Accenture, you have long, long, deep Stan, sorry, you have deep and long standing relationships with many cloud service providers, including AWS. How does the Accenture cloud first strategy, how does it affect your relationships with those providers? >>Yeah, we have great relationships with cloud providers like AWS. And in fact, in the cloud world, it was one of the first, um, capability that we started about years ago, uh, when we started developing these capabilities. But five years ago, we hit a very important milestone where the two organizations came together and said that we are forging a pharma partnership with joint investments to build this partnership. And we named that as a Accenture, AWS business group ABG, uh, where we co-invest and brought skills together and develop solutions. And we will continue to do that. And through that investment, we've also made several acquisitions that you would have seen in the recent times, like, uh, an invoice and gecko that we made acquisitions in in Europe. But now we're taking this to the next level. What we are saying is two cloud first and the $3 billion investment that we are bringing in, uh, through cloud first, we are going to make specific investment to create unique joint solution and landing zones foundation, um, cloud packs with which clients can accelerate their innovation or their journey to cloud first. >>And one great example is what we are doing with Takeda, uh, billable, pharmaceutical giant, um, between we've signed a five-year partnership. And it was out in the media just a month ago or so, where we are, the two organizations are coming together. We have created a partnership as a power of three partnership where the three organizations are jointly hoarding hats and taking responsibility for the innovation and the leadership position that Decatur wants to get to with this. We are going to simplify their operating model and organization by providing it flexibility. We're going to provide a lot more insights. Tequila has a 230 year old organization. Imagine the amount of trapped data and intelligence that is there. How about bringing all of that together with the power of AWS and Accenture and Takeda to drive more customer insights, um, come up with breakthrough, uh, R and D uh, accelerate clinical trials and improve the patient experience using AI ML and edge technologies. So all of these things that we will do through this partnership with joint investment from Accenture cloud first, as well as partner like AWS, so that Takeda can realize their gain. And, uh, they're seeing you actually made a statement that five years from now, every ticket an employee will have an AI assistant. That's going to make that beginner employee move up the value chain on how they contribute and add value to the future of tequila with the AI assistant, making them even more equipped and smarter than what they could be otherwise. >>So, one last question to close this out here. What is your future vision for, for Accenture cloud first? What are we going to be talking about at next year's Accenture executive summit? Yeah, the future >>Is going to be, um, evolving, but the part that is exciting to me, and this is, uh, uh, a fundamental belief that we are entering a new era of industrial revolution from industry first, second, and third industry. The third happened probably 20 years ago with the advent of Silicon and computers and all of that stuff that happened here in the Silicon Valley. I think the fourth industrial revolution is going to be in the cross section of, uh, physical, digital and biological boundaries. And there's a great article, um, in what economic forum that, that people, uh, your audience can Google and read about it. Uh, but the reason why this is very, very important is we are seeing a disturbing phenomenon that over the last 10 years, they are seeing a Blackwing of the, um, labor productivity and innovation, which has dropped to about 2.1%. When you see that kind of phenomenon over that longer period of time, there has to be breakthrough innovation that needs to happen to come out of this barrier and get to the next base camp, as I would call it to further this productivity, um, lack that we are seeing, and that is going to happen in the intersection of the physical, digital and biological boundaries. >>And I think cloud is going to be the connective tissue between all of these three, to be able to provide that where it's the edge, especially is going to come closer to the human lives. It's going to come from cloud pick totally in your mind, you can think about cloud as central, either in a private cloud, in a data center or in a public cloud, you know, everywhere. But when you think about edge, it's going to be far reaching and coming close to where we live and maybe work and very, um, get entertained and so on and so forth. And there's going to be, uh, intervention in a positive way in the field of medicine, in the field of entertainment, in the field of, um, manufacturing in the field of, um, uh, you know, mobility. When I say mobility, human mobility, people, transportation, and so on and so forth with all of this stuff, cloud is going to be the connective tissue and the vision of cloud first is going to be, uh, you know, blowing through this big change that is going to happen. And the evolution that is going to happen where, you know, the human grace of mankind, um, our person kind of being very gender neutral in today's world. Um, go first needs to be that beacon of, uh, creating the next generation vision for enterprises to take advantage of that kind of an exciting future. And that's why it, Accenture. We say, let there be change as our, as a purpose. >>I genuinely believe that cloud first is going to be in the forefront of that change agenda, both for Accenture as well as for the rest of the world. Excellent. Let there be change, indeed. Thank you so much for joining us Karthik. A pleasure I'm Rebecca night's stay tuned for more of Q3 60 fives coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS >>Welcome everyone to the Q virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit, which is part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the green, the cloud and joining me is Kishor Dirk. He is Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Kishor nice to meet you. So I want to start by asking you what it is that we mean when we say green cloud, we know that sustainability is a business imperative. So many organizations around the world are committing to responsible innovation, lowering carbon emissions, but what's this, what is it? What does it mean when they talk about cloud from a sustainability perspective? I think it's about responsible innovation being cloud is a cloud first approach that has profits and benefit the clients by helping reduce carbon emissions. >>Think about it this way. You have a large number of data centers. Each of these data centers are increasing by 14% every year. And this double digit growth. What you're seeing is these data centers and the consumption is nearly coolant to the kind of them should have a country like Spain. So the magnitude of the problem that is out there and how do we pursue a green approach. If you look at this, our Accenture analysis, in terms of the migration to public cloud, we've seen that we can reduce that by 59 million tons of CO2 per year with just the 5.9% reduction in total ID emissions and equates this to 22 million cars off the road. And the magnitude of reduction can go a long way in meeting climate change commitments, particularly for data sensitive. >>Wow, that's incredible. What the numbers that you're putting forward are, are absolutely mind blowing. So how does it work? Is it a simple cloud migration? So, you know, when companies begin their cloud journey and then they confront, uh, with them a lot of questions, the decision to make, uh, this particular, uh, element sustainable in the solution and benefits they drive and they have to make wise choices, and then they will be unprecedented level of innovation leading to both a greener planet, as well as, uh, a greener balance sheet, I would say, uh, so effectively it's all about ambition data, the ambition, greater the reduction in carbon emissions. So from a cloud migration perspective, we look at it as a, as a simple solution with approaches and sustainability benefits, uh, that vary based on things it's about selecting the right cloud provider, a very carbon thoughtful provider and the first step towards a sustainable cloud journey. >>And here we're looking at cloud operators, obviously they have different corporate commitments towards sustainability, and that determines how they plan, how they build, uh, their, uh, uh, the data centers, how they are consumed and assumptions that operate there and how they, or they retire their data centers. Then, uh, the next element that you want to do is how do you build it ambition, you know, for some of the companies, uh, and average on-prem, uh, drives about 65% energy reduction and the carbon emissions and reduction number was 84%, which is kind of good, I would say. But then if you could go up to 98% by configuring applications to the cloud, that is significant benefit for, uh, for the board. And obviously it's a, a greener cloud that we're talking about. And then the question is, how far can you go? And, uh, you know, the, obviously the companies have to unlock greater financial societal environmental benefits, and Accenture has this cloud based circular operations and sustainable products and services that we bring into play. So it's a, it's a very thoughtful, broader approach that w bringing in, in terms of, uh, just a simple concept of cloud migration, >>We know that in the COVID era, shifting to the cloud has really become a business imperative. How is Accenture working with its clients at a time when all of this movement has been accelerated? How do you partner and what is your approach in terms of helping them with their migration? >>Yeah, I mean, let, let me talk a little bit about the pandemic and the crisis that is there today. And if you really look at that in terms of how we partnered with a lot of our clients in terms of the cloud first approach, I'll give you a couple of examples. We worked with rolls Royce, McLaren, DHL, and others, as part of the ventilator challenge consortium, again, to, uh, coordinate production of medical ventilator surgically needed for the UK health service. Many of these farms I've taken similar initiatives in, in terms of, uh, you know, from a few manufacturers hand sanitizers and to hand sanitizers, and again, leading passionate labels, making PPE, and again, at the UN general assembly, we launched the end-to-end integration guide that helps company essentially to have a sustainable development goals. And that's how we have parking at a very large scale. >>Uh, and, and if you really look at how we work with our clients and what is Accenture's role there, uh, you know, from, in terms of our clients, you know, there are multiple steps that we look at. One is about, uh, planning, building, deploying, and managing an optimal green cloud solution. And Accenture has this concept of, uh, helping clients with a platform to kind of achieve that goal. And here we are having, we are having a platform or a mine app, which has a module called BGR advisor. And this is a capability that helps you provide optimal green cloud, uh, you know, a business case, and obviously a blueprint for each of our clients and right from the start in terms of how do we complete cloud migration recommendation to an improved solution, accurate accuracy to obviously bringing in the end to end perspective, uh, you know, with this green card advisor capability, we're helping our clients capture what we call as a carbon footprint for existing data centers and provide, uh, I would say the current cloud CO2 emission score that, you know, obviously helps them, uh, with carbon credits that can further that green agenda. >>So essentially this is about recommending a green index score, reducing carbon footprint for migration migrating for green cloud. And if we look at how Accenture itself is practicing what we preach, 95% of our applications are in the cloud. And this migration has helped us, uh, to lead to about $14.5 million in benefit. And in the third year and another 3 million analytics costs that are saved through right-sizing a service consumption. So it's a very broad umbrella and a footprint in terms of how we engage societaly with the UN or our clients. And what is it that we exactly bring to our clients in solving a specific problem? >>Accenture isn't is walking the walk, as you say yes. >>So that's that instead of it, we practice what we preach, and that is something that we take it to heart. We want to have a responsible business and we want to practice it. And we want to advise our clients around that >>You are your own use case. And so they can, they know they can take your advice. So talk a little bit about, um, the global, the cooperation that's needed. We know that conquering this pandemic is going to take a coordinated global effort and talk a little bit about the great reset initiative. First of all, what is that? Why don't we, why don't we start there and then we can delve into it a little bit more. >>Okay. So before we get to how we are cooperating, the great reset, uh, initiative is about improving the state of the world. And it's about a group of global stakeholders cooperating to simultaneously manage the direct consequences of their COVID-19 crisis. Uh, and in spirit of this cooperation that we're seeing during COVID-19, uh, which will obviously either to post pandemic, to tackle the world's pressing issues. As I say, uh, we are increasing companies to realize a combined potential of technology and sustainable impact to use enterprise solutions, to address with urgency and scale, and, um, obviously, uh, multiple challenges that are facing our world. One of the ways that you're increasing, uh, companies to reach their readiness cloud with Accenture's cloud core strategy is to build a solid foundation that is resilient and will be able to faster to the current, as well as future times. Now, when you think of cloud as the foundation, uh, that drives the digital transformation, it's about scale speed, streamlining your operations, and obviously reducing costs. >>And as these businesses seize the construct of cloud first, they must remain obviously responsible and trusted. Now think about this, right, as part of our analysis, uh, that profitability can co-exist with responsible and sustainable practices. Let's say that all the data centers, uh, migrated from on-prem to cloud based, we estimate that would reduce carbon emissions globally by 60 million tons per year. Uh, and think about it this way, right? Easier metric would be taking out 22 million cars off the road. Um, the other examples that you've seen, right, in terms of the NHS work that they're doing, uh, in, in UK to build, uh, uh, you know, uh, Microsoft teams in based integration. And, uh, the platform rolled out for 1.2 million in interest users, uh, and got 16,000 users that we were able to secure, uh, instant messages, obviously complete audio video calls and host virtual meetings across India. So, uh, this, this work that we did with NHS is something that we have are collaborating with a lot of tools and powering businesses. >>Well, you're vividly describing the business case for sustainability. What do you see as the future of cloud when thinking about it from this lens of sustainability, and also going back to what you were talking about in terms of how you are helping your, your fostering cooperation within these organizations. >>Yeah, that's a very good question. So if you look at today, right, businesses are obviously environmentally aware and they are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, carbon emissions, and they want to run a sustainable operational efficiency across all elements of their business. And this is an increasing trend, and there is that option of energy efficient infrastructure in the global market. And this trend is the cloud first thinking. And with the right cloud migration that we've been discussing is about unlocking new opportunity, like clean energy foundations enable enabled by cloud based geographic analysis, material, waste reductions, and better data insights. And this is something that, uh, uh, we'll we'll drive, uh, with obviously faster analytics platform that is out there. Now, the sustainability is actually the future of business, which is companies that are historically different, the financial security or agility benefits to cloud. Now sustainability becomes an imperative for them. And I would on expedience Accenture's experience with cloud migrations, we have seen 30 to 40% total cost of ownership savings. And it's driving a greater workload, flexibility, better service, your obligation, and obviously more energy efficient, uh, public clouds that cost we'll see that, that drive a lot of these enterprise own data centers. So in our view, what we are seeing is that this, this, uh, sustainable cloud position helps, uh, helps companies to, uh, drive a lot of the goals in addition to their financial and other goods. >>So what should organizations who are, who are watching this interview and saying, Hey, I need to know more, what, what do you recommend to them? And what, where should they go to get more information on Greenplum? >>No, if you you're, if you are a business leader and you're thinking about which cloud provider is good, or how, how should applications be modernized to meet our day-to-day needs, which cloud driven innovations should be priorities. Uh, you know, that's why Accenture, uh, formed up the cloud first organization and essentially to provide the full stack of cloud services to help our clients become a cloud first business. Um, you know, it's all about excavation, uh, the digital transformation innovating faster, creating differentiated, uh, and sustainable value for our clients. And we're powering it up at 70,000 cloud professionals, $3 billion investment, and, uh, bringing together and services for our clients in terms of cloud solutions. And obviously the ecosystem partnership that we have that we are seeing today, uh, and the assets that help our clients realize their goals. Um, and again, to do reach out to us, uh, we can help them determine obviously, an optimal, sustainable cloud for solution that meets the business needs and being unprecedented levels of innovation. Our experience will be our advantage. And now more than ever, Rebecca, >>Just closing us out here. Do you have any advice for these companies who are navigating a great deal of uncertainty? We, what, what do you think the next 12 to 24 months? What do you think that should be on the minds of CEOs as they go through? >>So, as CEO's are thinking about rapidly leveraging cloud, migrating to cloud, uh, one of the elements that we want them to be thoughtful about is can they do that, uh, with unprecedent level of innovation, but also build a greener planet and a greener balance sheet, if we can achieve this balance and kind of, uh, have a, have a world which is greener, I think the world will win. And we all along with Accenture clients will win. That's what I would say, uh, >>Optimistic outlook. And I will take it. Thank you so much. Kishor for coming on the show >>That was >>Accenture's Kishor Dirk, I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>Around the globe. >>It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the power of three. And what happens when you bring together the scientific know-how of a global bias biopharmaceutical powerhouse in Takeda, a leading cloud services provider in AWS, and Accenture's ability to innovate, execute, and deliver innovation. Joining me to talk about these things. We have Aaron, sorry, Arjun, baby. He is the senior managing director and chairman of Accenture's diamond leadership council. Welcome Arjun Karl hick. He is the chief digital and information officer at Takeda. >>What is your bigger, thank you, Rebecca >>And Brian bowhead, global director, and head of the Accenture AWS business group at Amazon web services. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. So, as I said, we're talking today about this relationship between, uh, your three organizations. Carl, I want to talk with you. I know you're at the beginning of your cloud journey. What was the compelling reason? What, what, why, why move to the cloud and why now? >>Yeah, no, thank you for the question. So, you know, as a biopharmaceutical leader, we're committed to bringing better health and a brighter future to our patients. We're doing that by translating science into some really innovative and life transporting therapies, but throughout, you know, we believe that there's a responsible use of technology, of data and of innovation. And those three ingredients are really key to helping us deliver on that promise. And so, you know, while I think, uh, I'll call it, this cloud journey is already always been a part of our strategy. Um, and we've made some pretty steady progress over the last years with a number of I'll call it diverse approaches to the digital and AI. We just weren't seeing the impact at scale that we wanted to see. Um, and I think that, you know, there's a, there's a need ultimately to, you know, accelerate and, uh, broaden that shift. >>And, you know, we were commenting on this earlier, but there's, you know, it's been highlighted by a number of factors. One of those has been certainly a number of the large acquisitions we've made Shire, uh, being the most pressing example, uh, but also the global pandemic, both of those highlight the need for us to move faster, um, at the speed of cloud, ultimately. Uh, and so we started thinking outside of the box because it was taking us too long and we decided to leverage this strategic partner model. Uh, and it's giving us a chance to think about our challenges very differently. We call this the power of three, uh, and ultimately our focus is singularly on our patients. I mean, they're waiting for us. We need to get there faster. It can take years. And so I think that there is a focus on innovation, um, at a rapid speed, so we can move ultimately from treating conditions to keeping people healthy. >>So as you are embarking on this journey, what are some of the insights you want to share about, about what you're seeing so far? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, I mean, look, maybe right before I highlight some of the key insights, uh, I would say that, you know, with cloud now as the, as the launchpad for innovation, you know, our vision all along has been that in less than 10 years, we want every single to kid, uh, associate we're employed to be empowered by an AI assistant. And I think that, you know, that's going to help us make faster, better decisions. That'll help us, uh, fundamentally deliver transformative therapies and better experiences to, to that ecosystem, to our patients, to physicians, to payers, et cetera, much faster than we previously thought possible. Um, and I think that technologies like cloud and edge computing together with a very powerful I'll call it data fabric is going to help us to create this, this real-time, uh, I'll call it the digital ecosystem. >>The data has to flow ultimately seamlessly between our patients and providers or partners or researchers, et cetera. Uh, and so we've been thinking about this, uh, I'll call it legal, hold up, sort of this pyramid, um, that helps us describe our vision. Uh, and a lot of it has to do with ultimately modernizing the foundation, modernizing and rearchitecting, the platforms that drive the company, uh, heightening our focus on data, which means that there's an accelerated shift towards enterprise data platforms and digital products. And then ultimately, uh, uh, P you know, really an engine for innovation sitting at the very top. Um, and so I think with that, you know, there's a few different, uh, I'll call it insights that, you know, are quickly kind of come zooming into focus. I would say one is this need to collaborate very differently. Um, you know, not only internally, but you know, how do we define ultimately, and build a connected digital ecosystem with the right partners and technologies externally? >>I think the second, uh, component that maybe people don't think as much about, but, you know, I find critically important is for us to find ways of really transforming our culture. We have to unlock talent and shift the culture certainly as a large biopharmaceutical very differently. And then lastly, you've touched on it already, which is, you know, innovation at the speed of cloud. How do we re-imagine that, you know, how do ideas go from getting tested and months to kind of getting tested in days? You know, how do we collaborate very differently? Uh, and so I think those are three, uh, perhaps of the larger I'll call it, uh, insights that, you know, the three of us are spending a lot of time thinking about right now. >>So Arjun, I want to bring you into this conversation a little bit. Let's, let's delve into those a bit. Talk first about the collaboration, uh, that Carl was referencing there. How, how have you seen that it is enabling, uh, colleagues and teams to communicate differently and interact in new and different ways? Uh, both internally and externally, as Carl said, >>No, th thank you for that. And, um, I've got to give call a lot of credit, because as we started to think about this journey, it was clear, it was a bold ambition. It was, uh, something that, you know, we had all to do differently. And so the, the concept of the power of three that Carl has constructed has become a label for us as a way to think about what are we going to do to collectively drive this journey forward. And to me, the unique ways of collaboration means three things. The first one is that, um, what is expected is that the three parties are going to come together and it's more than just the sum of our resources. And by that, I mean that we have to bring all of ourselves, all of our collective capabilities, as an example, Amazon has amazing supply chain capabilities. >>They're one of the best at supply chain. So in addition to resources, when we have supply chain innovations, uh, that's something that they're bringing in addition to just, uh, talent and assets, similarly for Accenture, right? We do a lot, uh, in the talent space. So how do we bring our thinking as to how we apply best practices for talent to this partnership? So, um, as we think about this, so that's, that's the first one, the second one is about shared success very early on in this partnership, we started to build some foundations and actually develop seven principles that all of us would look at as the basis for this success shared success model. And we continue to hold that sort of in the forefront, as we think about this collaboration. And maybe the third thing I would say is this one team mindset. So whether it's the three of our CEOs that get together every couple of months to think about, uh, this partnership, or it is the governance model that Carl has put together, which has all three parties in the governance and every level of leadership, we always think about this as a collective group, so that we can keep that front and center. >>And what I think ultimately has enabled us to do is it allowed us to move at speed, be more flexible. And ultimately all we're looking at the target the same way, the North side, the same way. >>Brian, what about you? What have you observed and what are you thinking about in terms of how this is helping teams collaborate differently? >>Yeah, absolutely. And RJ made some, some great points there. And I think if you really think about what he's talking about, it's that, that diversity of talent, diversity of skill and viewpoint and even culture, right? And so we see that in the power of three. And then I think if we drill down into what we see at Takeda, and frankly, Takeda was, was really, I think, pretty visionary and on their way here, right. And taking this kind of cross-functional approach and applying it to how they operate day to day. So moving from a more functional view of the world to more of a product oriented view of the world, right? So when you think about we're going to be organized around a product or a service or a capability that we're going to provide to our customers or our patients or donors in this case, it implies a different structure, although altogether, and a different way of thinking, right? >>Because now you've got technical people and business experts and marketing experts, all working together in this is sort of cross collaboration. And what's great about that is it's really the only way to succeed with cloud, right? Because the old ways of thinking where you've got application people and infrastructure, people in business, people is suboptimal, right? Because we can all access this tool was, and these capabilities and the best way to do that, isn't across kind of a cross collaborative way. And so this is product oriented mindset. It's a keto was already on. I think it's allowed us to move faster in those areas. >>Carl, I want to go back to this idea of unlocking talent and culture. And this is something that both Brian and Arjun have talked about too. People are, are an essential part of their, at the heart of your organization. How will their experience of work change and how are you helping re-imagine and reinforce a strong organizational culture, particularly at this time when so many people are working remotely. >>Yeah. It's a great question. And it's something that, you know, I think we all have to think a lot about, I mean, I think, um, you know, driving this, this call it, this, this digital and data kind of capability building, uh, takes a lot of, a lot of thinking. So, I mean, there's a few different elements in terms of how we're tackling this one is we're recognizing, and it's not just for the technology organization or for those actors that, that we're innovating with, but it's really across all of the Cato where we're working through ways of raising what I'll call the overall digital leaders literacy of the organization, you know, what are the, you know, what are the skills that are needed almost at a baseline level, even for a global bio-pharmaceutical company and how do we deploy, I'll call it those learning resources very broadly. >>And then secondly, I think that, you know, we're, we're very clear that there's a number of areas where there are very specialized skills that are needed. Uh, my organization is one of those. And so, you know, we're fostering ways in which, you know, we're very kind of quickly kind of creating, uh, avenues excitement for, for associates in that space. So one example specifically, as we use, you know, during these very much sort of remote, uh, sort of days, we, we use what we call global it days, and we set a day aside every single month and this last Friday, um, you know, we, we create during that time, it's time for personal development. Um, and we provide active seminars and training on things like, you know, robotic process automation, data analytics cloud, uh, in this last month we've been doing this for months and months now, but in his last month, more than 50% of my organization participated, and there's this huge positive shift, both in terms of access and excitement about really harnessing those new skills and being able to apply them. >>Uh, and so I think that that's, you know, one, one element that, uh, can be considered. And then thirdly, um, of course, every organization to work on, how do you prioritize talent, acquisition and management and competencies that you can't rescale? I mean, there are just some new capabilities that we don't have. And so there's a large focus that I have with our executive team and our CEO and thinking through those critical roles that we need to activate in order to kind of, to, to build on this, uh, this business led cloud transformation. And lastly, probably the hardest one, but the one that I'm most jazzed about is really this focus on changing the mindsets and behaviors. Um, and I think there, you know, this is where the power of three is, is really, uh, kind of coming together nicely. I mean, we're working on things like, you know, how do we create this patient obsessed curiosity, um, and really kind of unlock innovation with a real, kind of a growth mindset. >>Uh, and the level of curiosity that's needed, not to just continue to do the same things, but to really challenge the status quo. So that's one big area of focus we're having the agility to act just faster. I mean, to worry less, I guess I would say about kind of the standard chain of command, but how do you make more speedy, more courageous decisions? And this is places where we can emulate the way that a partner like AWS works, or how do we collaborate across the number of boundaries, you know, and I think, uh, Arjun spoke eloquently to a number of partnerships that we can build. So we can break down some of these barriers and use these networks, um, whether it's within our own internal ecosystem or externally to help, to create value faster. So a lot of energy around ways of working and we'll have to check back in, but I mean, we're early in on this mindset and behavioral shift, um, but a lot of good early momentum. >>Carl you've given me a good segue to talk to Brian about innovation, because you said a lot of the things that I was the customer obsession and this idea of innovating much more quickly. Obviously now the world has its eyes on drug development, and we've all learned a lot about it, uh, in the past few months and accelerating drug development is all, uh, is of great interest to all of us. Brian, how does a transformation like this help a company's, uh, ability to become more agile and more innovative and at a quicker speed to, >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think some of the things that Carl talked about just now are critical to that, right? I think where sometimes folks fall short is they think, you know, we're going to roll out the technology and the technology is going to be the silver bullet where we're, in fact it is the culture. It is, is the talent. And it's the focus on that. That's going to be, you know, the determinant of success. And I will say, you know, in this power of three arrangement and Carl talked a little bit about the pyramid, um, talent and culture and that change, and the kind of thinking about that has been a first-class citizen since the very beginning, right. That absolutely is critical for, for being there. Um, and, and so that's been, that's been key. And so we think about innovation at Amazon and AWS, and Carl mentioned some of the things that, you know, partner like AWS can bring to the table is we talk a lot about builders, right? >>So kind of obsessive about builders. Um, and, and we meet what we mean by that is we at Amazon, we hire for builders, we cultivate builders and we like to talk to our customers about it as well. And it also implies a different mindset, right? When you're a builder, you have that, that curiosity, you have that ownership, you have that stake in whatever I'm creating, I'm going to be a co-owner of this product or this service, right. Getting back to that kind of product oriented mindset. And it's not just the technical people or the it people who are builders. It is also the business people as, as Carl talked about. Right. So when we start thinking about, um, innovation again, where we see folks kind of get into a little bit of a innovation pilot paralysis, is that you can focus on the technology, but if you're not focusing on the talent and the culture and the processes and the mechanisms, you're going to be putting out technology, but you're not going to have an organization that's ready to take it and scale it and accelerate it. >>Right. And so that's, that's been absolutely critical. So just a couple of things we've been doing with, with Takeda and Decatur has really been leading the way is, think about a mechanism and a process. And it's really been working backward from the customer, right? In this case, again, the patient and the donor. And that was an easy one because the key value of Decatur is to be a patient focused bio-pharmaceutical right. So that was embedded in their DNA. So that working back from that, that patient, that donor was a key part of that process. And that's really deep in our DNA as well. And Accenture's, and so we were able to bring that together. The other one is, is, is getting used to experimenting and even perhaps failing, right. And being able to iterate and fail fast and experiment and understanding that, you know, some decisions, what we call it at Amazon or two-way doors, meaning you can go through that door, not like what you see and turn around and go back. And cloud really helps there because the costs of experimenting and the cost of failure is so much lower than it's ever been. You can do it much faster and the implications are so much less. So just a couple of things that we've been really driving, uh, with the cadence around innovation, that's been really critical. Carl, where are you already seeing signs of success? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. And so we chose, you know, uh, with our focus on innovation to try to unleash maybe the power of data digital in, uh, in focusing on what I call sort of a Maven. And so we chose our, our, our plasma derived therapy business, um, and you know, the plasma-derived therapy business unit, it develops critical life-saving therapies for patients with rare and complex diseases. Um, but what we're doing is by bringing kind of our energy together, we're focusing on creating, I'll call it state of the art digitally connected donation centers. And we're really modernizing, you know, the, the, the donor experience right now, we're trying to, uh, improve also I'll call it the overall plasma collection process. And so we've, uh, selected a number of alcohol at a very high speed pilots that we're working through right now, specifically in this, in this area. And we're seeing >>Really great results already. Um, and so that's, that's one specific area of focus are Jen, I want you to close this out here. Any ideas, any best practices advice you would have for other pharmaceutical companies that are, that are at the early stage of their cloud journey? Yes. Sorry. Arjun. >>Yeah, no, I was breaking up a bit. No, I think they, um, the key is what what's sort of been great for me to see is that when people think about cloud, you know, you always think about infrastructure technology. The reality is that the cloud is really the true enabler for innovation and innovating at scale. And, and if you think about that, right, in all the components that you need, uh, ultimately that's where the value is for the company, right? Because yes, you're going to get some cost synergies and that's great, but the true value is in how do we transform the organization in the case of the Qaeda and the life sciences clients, right. We're trying to take a 14 year process of research and development that takes billions of dollars and compress that right. Tremendous amounts of innovation opportunity. You think about the commercial aspect, lots of innovation can come there. The plasma derived therapy is a great example of how we're going to really innovate to change the trajectory of that business. So I think innovation is at the heart of what most organizations need to do. And the formula, the cocktail that Takeda has constructed with this Fuji program really has all the ingredients, um, that are required for that success. >>Great. Well, thank you so much. Arjun, Brian and Carl was really an enlightening conversation. >>Thank you. Yeah, it's been fun. Thanks Rebecca. >>And thank you for tuning into the cube. Virtual is coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cubes coverage of Accenture executive summit here at AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight for this segment? We have two guests. First. We have Helen Davis. She is the senior director of cloud platform services, assistant director for it and digital for the West Midlands police. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Helen, and we also have Matthew lb. He is Accenture health and public service associate director and West Midlands police account lead. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Matthew, thank you for joining us. So we are going to be talking about delivering data-driven insights to the West Midlands police force. Helen, I want to start with >>You. Can you tell us a little bit about the West Midlands police force? How big is the force and also what were some of the challenges that you were grappling with prior to this initiative? >>Yeah, certainly. So Westerners police is the second largest police force in the UK, outside of the metropolitan police in London. Um, we have an excessive, um, 11,000 people work at Westman ins police serving communities, um, through, across the Midlands region. So geographically, we're quite a big area as well, as well as, um, being population, um, density, having that as a, at a high level. Um, so the reason we sort of embarked on the data-driven insights platform and it, which was a huge change for us was for a number of reasons. Um, namely we had a lot of disparate data, um, which was spread across a range of legacy systems that were many, many years old, um, with some duplication of what was being captured and no single view for offices or, um, support staff. Um, some of the access was limited. You have to be in a, in an actual police building on a desktop computer to access it. Um, other information could only reach the offices on the front line, through a telephone call back to one of our enabling services where they would do a manual checkup, um, look at the information, then call the offices back, um, and tell them what they needed to know. So it was a very long laborious, um, process and not very efficient. Um, and we certainly weren't exploiting the data that we had in a very productive way. >>So it sounds like as you're describing, and I'm old clunky system that needed a technological, uh, reimagination. So what was the main motivation for, for doing, for making this shift? >>It was really, um, about making us more efficient and more effective in how we do how we do business. So, um, you know, certainly as a, as an it leader and some of my operational colleagues, we recognize the benefits, um, that data analytics could bring in, uh, in a policing environment, not something that was, um, really done in the UK at the time. You know, we have a lot of data, so we're very data rich and the information that we have, but we needed to turn it into information that was actionable. So that's where we started looking for, um, technology partners and suppliers to help us and sort of help us really with what's the art of the possible, you know, this hasn't been done before. So what could we do in this space? That's appropriate, >>Helen. I love that idea. What is the art of the possible, can you tell us a little bit about why you chose AWS? >>I think really, you know, as with all things and when we're procuring a partner in the public sector that, you know, there are many rules and regulations quite rightly as you would expect that to be because we're spending public money. So we have to be very, very careful and, um, it's, it's a long process and we have to be open to public scrutiny. So, um, we sort of look to everything, everything that was available as part of that process, but we recognize the benefits that Clyde would provide in this space because, you know, we're like moving to a cloud environment. We would literally be replacing something that was legacy with something that was a bit more modern. Um, that's not what we wanted to do. Our ambition was far greater than that. So I think, um, in terms of AWS, really, it was around scalability, interoperability, you know, just us things like the disaster recovery service, the fact that we can scale up and down quickly, we call it dialing up and dialing back. Um, you know, it's it's page go. So it just sort of ticked all the boxes for us. And then we went through the full procurement process, fortunately, um, it came out on top for us. So we were, we were able to move forward, but it just sort of had everything that we were looking for in that space. >>Matthew, I want to bring you into the conversation a little bit here. How are you working with a wet with the West Midlands police, sorry. And helping them implement this cloud-first >>Yeah, so I guess, um, by January the West Midlands police started, um, favorite five years ago now. So, um, we set up a partnership with the fools. I wanted to operate in a way that was very different to a traditional supplier relationship. Um, secretary that the data difference insights program is, is one of many that we've been working with last on, um, over the last five years, um, as having said already, um, cloud gave a number of, uh, advantages certainly from a big data perspective and things that, that enabled us today. Um, I'm from an Accenture perspective that allowed us to bring in a number of the different teams that we have say, cloud teams, security teams, um, and drafted from an insurance perspective, as well as the more traditional services that people would associate with the country. >>I mean, so much of this is about embracing comprehensive change to experiment and innovate and try different things. Matthew, how, how do you help, uh, an entity like West Midlands police think differently when they are, there are these ways of doing things that people are used to, how do you help them think about what is the art of the possible, as Helen said, >>There's a few things to that enable those being critical is trying to co-create solutions together. Yeah. There's no point just turning up with, um, what we think is the right answer, try and say, um, collectively work three, um, the issues that the fullest is seeing and the outcomes they're looking to achieve rather than simply focusing on a long list of requirements, I think was critical and then being really open to working together to create the right solution. Um, rather than just, you know, trying to pick something off the shelf that maybe doesn't fit the forces requirements in the way that it should too, >>Right. It's not always a one size fits all. >>Obviously, you know, today what we believe is critical is making sure that we're creating something that met the forces needs, um, in terms of the outcomes they're looking to achieve the financial envelopes that were available, um, and how we can deliver those in a, uh, iterative agile way, um, rather than spending years and years, um, working towards an outcome, um, that is gonna update before you even get that. >>So Helen, how, how are things different? What kinds of business functions and processes have been re-imagined in, in light of this change and this shift >>It's, it's actually unrecognizable now, um, in certain areas of the business as it was before. So to give you a little bit of, of context, when we, um, started working with essentially an AWS on the data driven insights program, it was very much around providing, um, what was called locally, a wizzy tool for our intelligence analyst to interrogate data, look at data, you know, decide whether they could do anything predictive with it. And it was very much sort of a back office function to sort of tidy things up for us and make us a bit better in that, in that area or a lot better in that area. And it was rolled out to a number of offices, a small number on the front line. Um, and really it was, um, in line with a mobility strategy that we, hardware officers were getting new smartphones for the first time, um, to do sort of a lot of things on, on, um, policing apps and things like that to again, to avoid them, having to keep driving back to police stations, et cetera. >>And the pilot was so successful. Every officer now has access to this data, um, on their mobile devices. So it literally went from a handful of people in an office somewhere using it to do sort of clever whizzbang things to, um, every officer in the force, being able to access that level of data at their fingertips. Literally. So what they were touched we've done before is if they needed to check and address or check details of an individual, um, just as one example, they would either have to, in many cases, go back to a police station to look it up themselves on a desktop computer. Well, they would have to make a call back to a centralized function and speak to an operator, relay the questions, either, wait for the answer or wait for a call back with the answer when those people are doing the data interrogation manually. >>So the biggest change for us is the self-service nature of the data we now have available. So officers can do it themselves on their phone, wherever they might be. So the efficiency savings from that point of view are immense. And I think just parallel to that is the quality of our, because we had a lot of data, but just because you've got a lot of data and a lot of information doesn't mean it's big data and it's valuable necessarily. Um, so again, it was having the single source of truth as we, as we call it. So you know that when you are completing those safe searches and getting the responses back, that it is the most accurate information we hold. And also you're getting it back within minutes, as opposed to, you know, half an hour, an hour or a drive back to a station. So it's making officers more efficient and it's also making them safer. The more efficient they are, the more time they have to spend out with the public doing what they, you know, we all should be doing, >>Seen that kind of return on investment, because what you were just describing with all the steps that we needed to be taken in prior to this, to verify an address say, and those are precious seconds when someone's life is on the line in, in sort of in the course of everyday police work. >>Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's difficult to put a price on it. It's difficult to quantify. Um, but all the, you know, the minutes here and that certainly add up to a significant amount of efficiency savings, and we've certainly been able to demonstrate the officers are spending less time up police stations as a result or more time out on the front frontline also they're safer because they can get information about what may or may not be and address what may or may not have occurred in an area before very, very quickly without having to wait. >>Thank you. I want to hear your observations of working so closely with this West Midlands police. Have you noticed anything about changes in its culture and its operating model in how police officers interact with one another? Have you seen any changes since this technology change? >>What's unique about the Western new misplaces, the buy-in from the top down, the chief and his exact team and Helen as the leader from an IOT perspective, um, the entire force is bought in. So what is a significant change program? Uh, I'm not trickles three. Um, everyone in the organization, um, change is difficult. Um, and there's a lot of time effort. That's been put into both the technical delivery and the business change and adoption aspects around each of the projects. Um, but you can see the step change that is making in each aspect to the organization, uh, and where that's putting West Midlands police as a leader in, um, technology I'm policing in the UK. And I think globally, >>And this is a question for both of you because Matthew, as you said, change is difficult and there is always a certain intransigence in workplaces about this is just the way we've always done things and we're used to this and don't try us to get us. Don't try to get us to do anything new here. It works. How do you get the buy-in that you need to do this kind of digital transformation? >>I think it, it would be wrong to say it was easy. Um, um, we also have to bear in mind that this was one program in a five-year program. So there was a lot of change going on, um, both internally for some of our back office functions, as well as front Tai, uh, frontline offices. So with DDI in particular, I think the stat change occurred when people could see what it could do for them. You know, we had lots of workshops and seminars where we all talk about, you know, big data and it's going to be great and it's data analytics and it's transformational, you know, and quite rightly people that are very busy doing a day job that not necessarily technologists in the main and, you know, are particularly interested quite rightly so in what we are not dealing with the cloud, you know? >>And it was like, yeah, okay. It's one more thing. And then when they started to see on that, on their phones and what teams could do, that's when it started to sell itself. And I think that's when we started to see, you know, to see the stat change, you know, and, and if we, if we have any issues now it's literally, you know, our help desks in meltdown. Cause everyone's like, well, we call it manage without this anymore. And I think that speaks for itself. So it doesn't happen overnight. It's sort of incremental changes and then that's a step change in attitude. And when they see it working and they see the benefits, they want to use it more. And that's how it's become fundamental to all policing by itself, really, without much selling >>You, Helen just made a compelling case for how to get buy in. Have you discovered any other best practices when you are trying to get everyone on board for this kind of thing? >>We've um, we've used a lot of the traditional techniques, things around comms and engagement. We've also used things like, um, the 30 day challenge and nudge theory around how can we gradually encourage people to use things? Um, I think there's a point where all of this around, how do we just keep it simple and keep it user centric from an end user perspective? I think DDI is a great example of where the, the technology is incredibly complex. The solution itself is, um, you know, extremely large and, um, has been very difficult to, um, get delivered. But at the heart of it is a very simple front end for the user to encourage it and take that complexity away from them. Uh, I think that's been critical through the whole piece of DDR. >>One final word from Helen. I want to hear, where do you go from here? What is the longterm vision? I know that this has made productivity, um, productivity savings equivalent to 154 full-time officers. Uh, what's next, >>I think really it's around, um, exploiting what we've got. Um, I use the phrase quite a lot, dialing it up, which drives my technical architects crazy. But so, because it's apparently not that simple, but, um, you know, we've, we've been through significant change in the last five years and we are still continuing to batch all of those changes into everyday, um, operational policing. But what we need to see is we need to exploit and build on the investments that we've made in terms of data and claims specifically, the next step really is about expanding our pool of data and our functions. Um, so that, you know, we keep getting better and better at this. And the more we do, the more data we have, the more refined we can be, the more precise we are with all of our actions. Um, you know, we're always being expected to, again, look after the public purse and do more for less. >>And I think this is certainly an and our cloud journey and, and cloud first by design, which is where we are now, um, is helping us to be future-proofed. So for us, it's very much an investment. And I see now that we have good at embedded in operational policing for me, this is the start of our journey, not the end. So it's really exciting to see where we can go from here. Exciting times. Indeed. Thank you so much. Lily, Helen and Matthew for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And you are watching the cube stay tuned for more of the cubes coverage of the AWS reinvent Accenture executive summit. I'm Rebecca Knight from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome to the cube virtual coverage of the executive summit at AWS reinvent 2020 virtual. This is the cube virtual. We can't be there in person like we are every year we have to be remote. This executive summit is with special programming supported by Accenture where the cube virtual I'm your host John for a year, we had a great panel here called uncloud first digital transformation from some experts, Stuart driver, the director of it and infrastructure and operates at lion Australia, Douglas Regan, managing director, client account lead at lion for Accenture as a deep Islam associate director application development lead for Centure gentlemen, thanks for coming on the cube virtual that's a mouthful, all that digital, but the bottom line it's cloud transformation. This is a journey that you guys have been on together for over 10 years to be really a digital company. Now, some things have happened in the past year that kind of brings all this together. This is about the next generation organization. So I want to ask Stuart you first, if you can talk about this transformation at lion has undertaken some of the challenges and opportunities and how this year in particular has brought it together because you know, COVID has been the accelerant of digital transformation. Well, if you're 10 years in, I'm sure you're there. You're in the, uh, on that wave right now. Take a minute to explain this transformation journey. >>Yeah, sure. So a number of years back, we, we looked at kind of our infrastructure in our landscape trying to figure out where we >>Wanted to go next. And we were very analog based and stuck in the old it groove of, you know, Capitol reef rash, um, struggling to transform, struggling to get to a digital platform and we needed to change it up so that we could become very different business to the one that we were back then obviously cloud is an accelerant to that. And we had a number of initiatives that needed a platform to build on. And a cloud infrastructure was the way that we started to do that. So we went through a number of transformation programs that we didn't want to do that in the old world. We wanted to do it in a new world. So for us, it was partnering up with a dried organizations that can take you on the journey and, uh, you know, start to deliver bit by bit incremental progress, uh, to get to the, uh, I guess the promise land. >>Um, we're not, not all the way there, but to where we're on the way along. And then when you get to some of the challenges like we've had this year, um, it makes all of the hard work worthwhile because you can actually change pretty quickly, um, provide capacity and, uh, and increase your environments and, you know, do the things that you need to do in a much more dynamic way than we would have been able to previously where we might've been waiting for the hardware vendors, et cetera, to deliver capacity. So for us this year, it's been a pretty strong year from an it perspective and delivering for the business needs >>Before I hit the Douglas. I want to just real quick, a redirect to you and say, you know, if all the people said, Oh yeah, you got to jump on cloud, get in early, you know, a lot of naysayers like, well, wait till to mature a little bit, really, if you got in early and you, you know, paying your dues, if you will taking that medicine with the cloud, you're really kind of peaking at the right time. Is that true? Is that one of the benefits that comes out of this getting in the cloud? Yeah, >>John, this has been an unprecedented year, right. And, um, you know, Australia, we had to live through Bush fires and then we had covert and, and then we actually had to deliver a, um, a project on very nice transformational project, completely remote. And then we also had had some, some cyber challenges, which is public as well. And I don't think if we weren't moved into and enabled through the cloud, we would have been able to achieve that this year. It would have been much different and would have been very difficult to do the backing. We're able to work and partner with Amazon through this year, which is unprecedented and actually come out the other end and we've delivered a brand new digital capability across the entire business. Um, in many, you know, wouldn't have been impossible if we could, I guess, stayed in the old world. The fact that we were moved into the new Naval by the new allowed us to work in this unprecedented year. >>Just quilt. What's your personal view on this? Because I've been saying on the Cuban reporting necessity is the mother of all invention and the word agility has been kicked around as kind of a cliche, Oh, it'd be agile. You know, we're going to get the city, you get a minute on specifically, but from your perspective, uh, Douglas, what does that mean to you? Because there is benefits there for being agile. And >>I mean, I think as Stuart mentioned, right, in a lot of these things we try to do and, you know, typically, you know, hardware and, uh, the last >>To be told and, and, and always on the critical path to be done, we really didn't have that in this case, what we were doing with our projects in our deployments, right. We were able to move quickly able to make decisions in line with the business and really get things going. Right. So you see a lot of times in a traditional world, you have these inhibitors, you have these critical path, it takes weeks and months to get things done as opposed to hours and days, and, and truly allowed us to, we had to, you know, VJ things, move things. And, you know, we were able to do that in this environment with AWS to support and the fact that they can kind of turn things off and on as quickly as we needed. >>Yeah. Cloud-scale is great for speed. So DECA, Gardez get your thoughts on this cloud first mission, you know, it, you know, the dev ops world, they saw this early, that jumping in there, they saw the, the, the agility. Now the theme this year is modern applications with the COVID pandemic pressure, there's real business pressure to make that happen. How did you guys learn to get there fast? And what specifically did you guys do at Accenture and how did it all come together? Can you take us inside kind of how it played out? >>Right. So, yeah, we started off with, as we do in most cases with a much more bigger group, and we worked with lions functional experts and, uh, the lost knowledge that allowed the infrastructure had. Um, we then applied our journey to cloud strategy, which basically revolves around the seminars and, and, uh, you know, the deep three steps from our perspective, uh, assessing the current and bottom and setting up the new cloud environment. And as we go modernizing and, and migrating these applications to the cloud now, you know, one of the key things that, uh, you know, we learned along this journey was that, you know, you can have the best plans, but bottom line that we were dealing with, we often than not have to make changes, uh, what a lot of agility and also work with a lot of collaboration with the, uh, lion team, as well as, uh, uh, AWS. I think the key thing for me was being able to really bring it all together. It's not just, uh, you know, we want to hear it's all of us working together to make this happen. >>What were some of the learnings real quick journey there? >>So I think perspective, the key learnings were that, you know, uh, you know, work, when you look back at, uh, the, the infrastructure that was that we were trying to migrate over to the cloud. A lot of the documentation, et cetera, was not, uh, available. We were having to, uh, figure out a lot of things on the fly. Now that really required us to have, uh, uh, people with deep expertise who could go into those environments and, and work out, uh, you know, the best ways to, to migrate the workloads to the cloud. Uh, I think, you know, the, the biggest thing for me was making sure all the had on that real SMEs across the board globally, that we could leverage across the various technologies, uh, uh, and, and, and, you know, that would really work in our collaborative and agile environment with line. >>Let's do what I got to ask you. How did you address your approach to the cloud and what was your experience? >>Yeah, for me, it's around getting the foundations right. To start with and then building on them. Um, so, you know, you've got to have your, your, your process and you've got to have your, your kind of your infrastructure there and your blueprints ready. Um, AWS do a great job of that, right. Getting the foundations right. And then building upon it, and then, you know, partnering with Accenture allows you to do that very successfully. Um, I think, um, you know, the one thing that was probably surprising to us when we started down this journey and kind of after we got a long way down the track and looking backwards is actually how much you can just turn off. Right? So a lot of stuff that you, uh, you get electric with a legacy in your environment, and when you start to work through it with the types of people that civic just mentioned, you know, the technical expertise working with the business, um, you can really rationalize your environment and, uh, you know, cloud is a good opportunity to do that, to drive that legacy out. >>Um, so you know, a few things there, the other thing is, um, you've got to try and figure out the benefits that you're going to get out of moving here. So there's no point in just taking something that is not delivering a huge amount of value in the traditional world, moving it into the cloud, and guess what is going to deliver the same limited amount of value. So you've got to transform it, and you've got to make sure that you build it for the future and understand exactly what you're trying to gain out of it. So again, you need a strong collaboration. You need a good partners to work with, and you need good engagement from the business as well, because the kind of, uh, you know, digital transformation, cloud transformation, isn't really an it project, I guess, fundamentally it is at the core, but it's a business project that you've got to get the whole business aligned on. You've got to make sure that your investment streams are appropriate and that's, uh, you're able to understand the benefits and the value that say, you're going to drive back towards the business. >>Let's do it. If you don't mind me asking, what was some of the obstacles you encountered or learnings, um, that might different from the expectation we all been there, Hey, you know, we're going to change the world. Here's the sales pitch, here's the outcome. And then obviously things happen, you know, you learn legacy, okay. Let's put some containerization around that cloud native, um, all that rational. You're talking about what are, and you're going to have obstacles. That's how you learn. That's how perfection has developed. How, what obstacles did you come up with and how are they different from your expectations going in? >>Yeah, they're probably no different from other people that have gone down the same journey. If I'm totally honest, the, you know, 70 or 80% of what you do is relatively easy of the known quantity. It's relatively modern architectures and infrastructures, and you can upgrade, migrate, move them into the cloud, whatever it is, rehost, replatform, rearchitect, whatever it is you want to do, it's the other stuff, right? It's the stuff that always gets left behind. And that's the challenge. It's, it's getting that last bit over the line and making sure that you haven't been invested in the future while still carrying all of your legacy costs and complexity within your environment. So, um, to be quite honest, that's probably taken longer and has been more of a challenge than we thought it would be. Um, the other piece I touched on earlier on in terms of what was surprising was actually how much of, uh, your environment is actually not needed anymore. >>When you start to put a critical eye across it and understand, um, uh, ask the tough questions and start to understand exactly what, what it is you're trying to achieve. So if you ask a part of a business, do they still need this application or this service a hundred percent of the time, they will say yes until you start to lay out to them, okay, now I'm going to cost you this to migrate it or this, to run it in the future. And, you know, here's your ongoing costs and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then, uh, for a significant amount of those answers, you get a different response when you start to layer on the true value of it. So you start to flush out those hidden costs within the business, and you start to make some critical decisions as a company based on, uh, based on that. So that was a little tougher than we first thought and probably broader than we thought there was more of that than we anticipated, um, which actually results in a much cleaner environment, post post migration, >>You know, the old expression, if it moves automated, you know, it's kind of a joke on government, how they want to tax everything, you know, you want to automate, that's a key thing in cloud, and you've got to discover those opportunities to create value Stuart and Siddique. Mainly if you can weigh in on this love to know the percentage of total cloud that you have now, versus when you started, because as you start to uncover whether it's by design for purpose, or you discover opportunity to innovate, like you guys have, I'm sure it kind of, you took on some territory inside Lyon, what percentage of cloud now versus start? >>Yeah. And at the start it was minimal, right. You know, close to zero, right. Single and single digits. Right. It was mainly SAS environments that we had, uh, sitting in clouds when we, uh, when we started, um, Doug mentioned earlier on a really significant transformation project, um, that we've undertaken and recently gone live on a multi-year one. Um, you know, that's all stood up on AWS and is a significant portion of our environment, um, in terms of what we can move to cloud. Uh, we're probably at about 80 or 90% now. And the balance bit is, um, legacy infrastructure that is just going to retire as we go through the cycle rather than migrate to the cloud. Um, so we are significantly cloud-based and, uh, you know, we're reaping the benefits of it in a year, like 2020, and makes you glad that you did all of the hard yards in the previous years when you started that business challenges thrown out as, >>So do you any common reaction still the cloud percentage penetration? >>Sorry, I didn't, I didn't guys don't, but I, I was going to say it was, I think it's like the 80 20 rule, right? We, we, we worked really hard in the, you know, I think 2018, 19 to get any person off, uh, after getting onto the cloud and, or the last year is the 20% that we have been migrating. And Stuart said like a non-athlete that is also, that's going to be the diet. And I think our next big step is going to be obviously, you know, the icing on the cake, which is to decommission all these apps as well. Right. So, you know, to get the real benefits out of, uh, the whole conservation program from a, uh, from a >>Douglas and Stewart, can you guys talk about the decision around the cloud because you guys have had success with AWS, why AWS how's that decision made? Can you guys give some insight into some of those thoughts? >>I can, I can start, start off. I think back when the decision was made and it was, Oh, it was a while back, um, you know, there's some clear advantages of moving relay, Ws, a lot of alignment with some of the significant projects and, uh, the trend, that particular one big transformation project that we've alluded to as well. Um, you know, we needed some, um, some very robust and, um, just future proof and, um, proven technology. And AWS gave that to us. We needed a lot of those blueprints to help us move down the path. We didn't want to reinvent everything. So, um, you know, having a lot of that legwork done for us and an AWS gives you that, right. And particularly when you partner up with, uh, with a company like Accenture as well, you get combinations of the technology and the skills and the knowledge to, to move you forward in that direction. >>So, um, you know, for us, it was a, uh, uh, it was a decision based on, you know, best of breed, um, you know, looking forward and, and trying to predict the future needs and, and, and kind of the environmental that we might need. Um, and, you know, partnering up with organizations that can take you on the journey. Yeah. And just to build on it. So obviously, you know, lion's like an NWS, but, you know, we knew it was a very good choice given that, um, uh, the skills and the capability that we had, as well as the assets and tools we had to get the most out of, um, out of AWS. And obviously our, our CEO globally is just spending, you know, announcement about a huge investment that we're making in cloud. Um, but you know, we've, we've worked very well. AWS, we've done some joint workshops and joint investments, um, some joint POC. So yeah, w we have a very good working relationship, AWS, and I think, um, one incident to reflect upon whether it's cyber it's and again, where we actually jointly, you know, dove in with, um, with Amazon and some of their security experts and our experts. And we're able to actually work through that with mine quite successful. So, um, you know, really good behaviors as an organization, but also really good capabilities. >>Yeah. As you guys, you're essential cloud outcomes, research shown, it's the cycle of innovation with the cloud. That's creating a lot of benefits, knowing what you guys know now, looking back certainly COVID is impacted a lot of people kind of going through the same process, knowing what you guys know now, would you advocate people to jump on this transformation journey? If so, how, and what tweaks they make, which changes, what would you advise? >>Uh, I might take that one to start with. Um, I hate to think where we would have been when, uh, COVID kicked off here in Australia and, you know, we were all sent home, literally were at work on the Friday, and then over the weekend. And then Monday, we were told not to come back into the office and all of a sudden, um, our capacity in terms of remote access and I quadrupled, or more four, five X, what we had on the Friday we needed on the Monday. And we were able to stand that up during the day Monday into Tuesday, because we were cloud-based and, uh, you know, we just spun up your instances and, uh, you know, sort of our licensing, et cetera. And we had all of our people working remotely, um, within, uh, you know, effectively one business day. Um, I know peers of mine in other organizations and industries that are relying on kind of a traditional wise and getting hardware, et cetera, that were weeks and months before they could get there the right hardware to be able to deliver to their user base. >>So, um, you know, one example where you're able to scale and, uh, um, get, uh, get value out of this platform beyond probably what was anticipated at the time you talk about, um, you know, less the, in all of these kinds of things. And you can also think of a few scenarios, but real world ones where you're getting your business back up and running in that period of time is, is just phenomenal. There's other stuff, right? There's these programs that we've rolled out, you do your sizing, um, and in the traditional world, you would just go out and buy more servers than you need. And, you know, probably never realize the full value of those, you know, the capability of those servers over the life cycle of them. Whereas, you know, in a cloud world, you put in what you think is right. And if it's not right, you pump it up a little bit when, when all of your metrics and so on, tell you that you need to bump it up. And conversely you scale it down at the same rate. So for us, with the types of challenges and programs and, uh, uh, and just business need, that's come at as this year, uh, we wouldn't have been able to do it without a strong cloud base, uh, to, uh, to move forward. >>You know, Douglas, one of the things I talked to, a lot of people on the right side of history who have been on the right wave with cloud, with the pandemic, and they're happy, they're like, and they're humble. Like, well, we're just lucky, you know, luck is preparation meets opportunity. And this is really about you guys getting in early and being prepared and readiness. This is kind of important as people realize, then you gotta be ready. I mean, it's not just, you don't get lucky by being in the right place, the right time. And there were a lot of companies were on the wrong side of history here who might get washed away. This is a super important, I think, >>To echo and kind of building on what Stewart said. I think that the reason that we've had success and I guess the momentum is we didn't just do it in isolation within it and technology. It was actually linked to broader business changes, you know, creating basically a digital platform for the entire business, moving the business, where are they going to be able to come back stronger after COVID, when they're actually set up for growth, um, and actually allows, you know, a line to achievements growth objectives, and also its ambitions as far as what it wants to do, uh, with growth in whatever they make, do with acquiring other companies and moving into different markets and launching new products. So we've actually done it in a way that is, you know, real and direct business benefit, uh, that actually enables line to grow >>General. I really appreciate you coming. I have one final question. If you can wrap up here, uh, Stuart and Douglas, you don't mind weighing in what's the priorities for the future. What's next for lion in a century >>Christmas holidays, I'll start Christmas holidays. I spent a good year and then a, and then a reset, obviously, right? So, um, you know, it's, it's figuring out, uh, transform what we've already transformed, if that makes sense. So God, a huge proportion of our services sitting in the cloud. Um, but we know we're not done even with the stuff that is in there. We need to take those next steps. We need more and more automation and orchestration. We need to, um, our environment is more future proof. We need to be able to work with the business and understand what's coming at them so that we can, um, you know, build that into, into our environment. So again, it's really transformation on top of transformation is the way that I'll describe it. And it's really an open book, right? Once you get it in and you've got the capabilities and the evolving tool sets that AWS continue to bring to the market based, um, you know, working with the partners to, to figure out how we unlock that value, um, you know, drive our costs down efficiency, uh, all of those kind of, you know, standard metrics. >>Um, but you know, we're looking for the next things to transform and showed value back out to our customer base, um, that, uh, that we continue to, you know, sell our products to and work with and understand how we can better meet their needs. Yeah, I think just to echo that, I think it's really leveraging this and then did you capability they have and getting the most out of that investment. And then I think it's also moving to, uh, and adopting more new ways of working as far as, you know, the speed of the business, um, is getting up to speed in the market is changing. So being able to launch and do things quickly and also, um, competitive and efficient operating costs, uh, now that they're in the cloud, right? So I think it's really leveraging the most out of the platform and then, you know, being efficient in launching things. So putting them with >>Siddique, any word from you on your priorities by you see this year in folding, >>There's got to say like e-learning squares, right, for me around, you know, just journey. This is a journey to the cloud, right? >>And, uh, you know, as well dug into sort of Saturday, it's getting all, you know, different parts of the organization along the journey business to it, to your, uh, product lenders, et cetera. Right. And it takes time. It is tough, but, uh, uh, you know, you got to get started on it. And, you know, once we, once we finish off, uh, it's the realization of the benefits now that, you know, looking forward, I think for, from Alliance perspective, it is, uh, you know, once we migrate all the workloads to the cloud, it is leveraging, uh, all stack drive. And as I think Stewart said earlier, uh, with, uh, you know, the latest and greatest stuff that AWS it's basically working to see how we can really, uh, achieve more better operational excellence, uh, from a, uh, from a cloud perspective. >>Well, Stewart, thanks for coming on with a and sharing your environment and what's going on and your journey you're on the right wave. Did the work you're in, it's all coming together with faster, congratulations for your success, and, uh, really appreciate Douglas with Steve for coming on as well from essential. Thank you for coming on. Thanks, John. Okay. Just the cubes coverage of executive summit at AWS reinvent. This is where all the thought leaders share their best practices, their journeys, and of course, special programming with Accenture and the cube. I'm Sean ferry, your host, thanks for watching from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. We are talking today about reinventing the energy data platform. We have two guests joining us. First. We have Johan Krebbers. He is the GM digital emerging technologies and VP of it. Innovation at shell. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Johan you're welcome. And next we have Liz Dennett. She is the lead solution architect for O S D U on AWS. Thank you so much, Liz, maybe here. So I want to start our conversation by talking about OSD. You like so many great innovations. It started with a problem. Johann, what was the problem you were trying to solve at shell? We go back a couple of years, we started summer 2017, where we had a meeting with the guys from exploration in shell, and the main problem they had, of course, they got lots of lots of data, but are unable to find the right data. They need to work from all over the place and told him >>To, and we'll probably try to solve is how that person working exploration could find their proper date, not just a day, but also the date you really needed that we did probably talked about is summer 2017. And we said, okay, the only way ABC is moving forward is to start pulling that data into a single data platform. And that, that was at the time that we called it as the, you, the subsurface data universe in there was about the shell name was so in, in January, 2018, we started a project with Amazon to start grating a co fricking that building, that Stu environment, that the, the universe, so that single data level to put all your exploration and Wells data into that single environment that was intent. And every cent, um, already in March of that same year, we said, well, from Michele point of view, we will be far better off if we could make this an industry solution and not just a shelf solution, because Shelby, Shelby, if you can make an industry solution, but people are developing applications for it. >>It also is far better than for shell to say we haven't shell special solution because we don't make money out of how we start a day that we can make money out of it. We have access to the data, we can explore the data. So storing the data we should do as efficiently possibly can. So we monitor, we reach out to about eight or nine other last, uh, or I guess operators like the economics, like the tutorials, like the shepherds of this world and say, Hey, we inshallah doing this. Do you want to join this effort? And to our surprise, they all said, yes. And then in September, 2018, we had our kickoff meeting with your open group where we said, we said, okay, if you want to work together and lots of other companies, we also need to look at, okay, how, how we organize that. >>Or if you started working with lots of large companies, you need to have some legal framework around some framework around it. So that's why we went to the open group and say, okay, let's, let's form the old forum as we call it at the time. So it's September, 2080, where I did a Galleria in Houston, but the kickoff meeting for the OT four with about 10 members at the time. So that's just over two years ago, we started an exercise for me called ODU. They kicked it off. Uh, and so that's really them will be coming from and how we've got there. Also >>The origin story. Um, what, so what digging a little deeper there? What were some of the things you were trying to achieve with the OSU? >>Well, a couple of things we've tried to achieve with you, um, first is really separating data from applications for what is, what is the biggest problem we have in the subsurface space that the data and applications are all interlinked or tied together. And if, if you have them and a new company coming along and say, I have this new application and he's access to the data that is not possible because the data often interlinked with the application. So the first thing we did is really breaking the link between the application, the data as those levels, the first thing we did, secondly, put all the data to a single data platform, take the silos out what was happening in the sub-service space. They got all the data in what we call silos in small little islands out there. So what we're trying to do is first break the link to great, great. >>They put the data single day, the bathroom, and the third part, put a standard layer on top of that, it's an API layer on top to equate a platform. So we could create an ecosystem out of companies to start a valving Schoff application on top of dev data platform across you might have a data platform, but you're only successful if have a rich ecosystem of people start developing applications on top of that. And then you can export the data like small companies, last company, university, you name it, we're getting after create an ecosystem out here. So the three things were first break the link between application data, just break it and put data at the center and also make sure that data, this data structure would not be managed by one company, but it would only be met. It would be managed the data structures by the ODI forum. Secondly, then put a, the data, a single data platform certainly then has an API layer on top and then create an ecosystem. Really go for people, say, please start developing applications, because now you had access to the data. I've got the data no longer linked to somebody whose application was all freely available, but an API layer that was, that was all September, 2018, more or less. >>And hear a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about some of the imperatives from the AWS standpoint in terms of what you were trying to achieve with this? Yeah, absolutely. And this whole thing is Johann said started with a challenge that was really brought out at shell. The challenges that geoscientists spend up to 70% of their time looking for data. I'm a geologist I've spent more than 70% of my time trying to find data in these silos. And from there, instead of just figuring out how we could address that one problem, we worked together to really understand the root cause of these challenges and working backwards from that use case OSU and OSU on AWS has really enabled customers to create solutions that span, not just this in particular problem, but can really scale to be inclusive of the entire energy value chain and deliver value from these use cases to the energy industry and beyond. Thank you, Lee, uh, Johann. So talk a little bit about Accenture's cloud first approach and how it has, uh, helped shell work faster and better with speed. >>Well, of course, access a cloud first approach only works together. It's been an Amazon environment, AWS environment. So we're really looking at, uh, at, at Accenture and others altogether helping shell in this space. Now the combination of the two is what we're really looking at, uh, where access of course can be recent knowledge student to that environment operates support knowledge, do an environment. And of course, Amazon will be doing that to today's environment that underpinning their services, et cetera. So, uh, we would expect a combination, a lot of goods when we started rolling out and put in production, the old you are three and bug because we are anus. Then when the release feed comes to the market in Q1, next year of ODU have already started going to Audi production inside shell. But as the first release, which is ready for prime time production across an enterprise will be released just before Christmas, last year when he's still in may of this year. But really three is the first release we want to use for full scale production deployment inside shell, and also the operators around the world. And there is one Amazon, sorry, at that one. Um, extensive can play a role in the ongoing, in the, in deployment building up, but also support environment. >>So one of the other things that we talk a lot about here on the cube is sustainability. And this is a big imperative at so many organizations around the world in particular energy companies. How does this move to OSD you, uh, help organizations become, how is this a greener solution for companies? >>Well, first we make it's a greatest solution because you start making a much more efficient use of your resources, which is already an important one. The second thing we're doing is also, we started ODU in framers, in the oil and gas space in the expert development space. We've grown, uh, OTU in our strategy of growth. I was, you know, also do an alternative energy sociology. We'll all start supporting next year. Things like solar farms, wind farms, uh, the, the dermatomal environment hydration. So it becomes an and an open energy data platform, not just what I want to get into sleep. That's what new industry, any type of energy industry. So our focus is to create, bring the data of all those various energy data sources to get me to a single data platform you can to use AI and other technologies on top of that, to exploit the data, to meet again into a single data platform. >>Liz, I want to ask you about security because security is, is, is such a big concern when it comes to data. How secure is the data on OSD? You, um, actually, can I talk, can I do a follow up on this sustainability talking? Oh, absolutely. By all means. I mean, I want to interject though security is absolutely our top priority. I don't mean to move away from that, but with sustainability, in addition to the benefits of the OSU data platform, when a company moves from on-prem to the cloud, they're also able to leverage the benefits of scale. Now, AWS is committed to running our business in the most environmentally friendly way possible. And our scale allows us to achieve higher resource utilization and energy efficiency than a typical data center. >>Now, a recent study by four 51 research found that AWS is infrastructure is 3.6 times more energy efficient than the median of surveyed enterprise data centers. Two thirds of that advantage is due to higher, um, server utilization and a more energy efficient server population. But when you factor in the carbon intensity of consumed electricity and renewable energy purchases for 51 found that AWS performs the same task with an 88% lower carbon footprint. Now that's just another way that AWS and OSU are working to support our customers is they seek to better understand their workflows and make their legacy businesses less carbon intensive. >>That's that's incorrect. Those are those statistics are incredible. Do you want to talk a little bit now about security? Absolutely. And security will always be AWS is top priority. In fact, AWS has been architected to be the most flexible and secure cloud computing environment available today. Our core infrastructure is built to satisfy. There are the security requirements for the military, local banks and other high sensitivity organizations. And in fact, AWS uses the same secure hardware and software to build and operate each of our regions. So that customers benefit from the only commercial cloud that's hat hits service offerings and associated supply chain vetted and deemed secure enough for top secret workloads. That's backed by a deep set of cloud security tools with more than 200 security compliance and governmental service and key features as well as an ecosystem of partners like Accenture, that can really help our customers to make sure that their environments for their data meet and or exceed their security requirements. Johann, I want you to talk a little bit about how OSD you can be used today. Does it only handle subsurface data? >>Uh, today it's Honda's subserves or Wells data, we go to add to that production around the middle of next year. That means that the whole upstate business. So we've got goes from exploration all the way to production. You've made it together into a single data platform. So production will be added around Q3 of next year. Then a principal. We have a difficult, the elder data that single environment, and we want to extend them to other data sources or energy sources like solar farms, wind farms, uh, hydrogen, hydro, et cetera. So we're going to add a whore, a whole list of audit day energy source to them and be all the data together into a single data club. So we move from a falling guest data platform to an aniseed data platform. That's really what our objective is because the whole industry, if you look it over, look at our companies are all moving in. That same two acts of quantity of course, are very strong in oil and gas, but also increased the, got into the other energy sources like, like solar, like wind, like th like highly attended, et cetera. So we would be moving exactly. But that same method that, that, that the whole OSU can't really support at home. And as a spectrum of energy sources, >>Of course, and Liz and Johan. I want you to close us out here by just giving us a look into your crystal balls and talking about the five and 10 year plan for OSD. You we'll start with you, Liz. What do you, what do you see as the future holding for this platform? Um, honestly, the incredibly cool thing about working at AWS is you never know where the innovation and the journey is going to take you. I personally am looking forward to work with our customers, wherever their OSU journeys, take them, whether it's enabling new energy solutions or continuing to expand, to support use cases throughout the energy value chain and beyond, but really looking forward to continuing to partner as we innovate to slay tomorrow's challenges, Johann first, nobody can look at any more nowadays, especially 10 years own objective is really in the next five years, you will become the key backbone for energy companies for storing your data. You are efficient intelligence and optimize the whole supply energy supply chain in this world down here, you'll uncovers Liz Dennett. Thank you so much for coming on the cube virtual I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of our coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cubes coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight today we're welcoming back to Kubila. We have Kishor Dirk. He is the Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Welcome back to the show Kishore. Thank you very much. Nice to meet again. And, uh, Tristan moral horse set. He is the managing director, Accenture cloud first North America growth. Welcome back to you to trust and great to be back in grapes here again, Rebecca. Exactly. Even in this virtual format, it is good to see your faces. Um, today we're going to be talking about my nav and green cloud advisor capability. Kishor I want to start with you. So my nav is a platform that is really celebrating its first year in existence. Uh, November, 2019 is when Accenture introduced it. Uh, but it's, it has new relevance in light of this global pandemic that we are all enduring and suffering through. Tell us a little bit about the lineup platform, what it is that cloud platform to help our clients navigate the complexity of cloud and cloud decisions to make it faster. And obviously, you know, we have in the cloud, uh, you know, with >>The increased relevance and all the, especially over the last few months with the impact of COVID crisis and exhibition of digital transformation, you know, we are seeing the transformation or the acceleration to cloud much faster. This platform that you're talking about has enabled and 40 clients globally across different industries. You identify the right cloud solution, navigate the complexity, provide a cloud specific solution simulate for our clients to meet the strategy business needs, and the clients are loving it. >>I want to go to you now trust and tell us a little bit about how mine nav works and how it helps companies make good cloud choice. >>Yeah, so Rebecca, we we've talked about cloud is, is more than just infrastructure and that's what mine app tries to solve for it. It really looks at a variety of variables, including infrastructure operating model and fundamentally what client's business outcomes, um, uh, our clients are, are looking for and, and identifies the optimal solution for what they need. And we assign this to accelerate and we mentioned the pandemic. One of the big focus now is to accelerate. And so we worked through a three-step process. The first is scanning and assessing our client's infrastructure, their data landscape, their application. Second, we use our automated artificial intelligence engine to interact with. We have a wide variety and library of a collective plot expertise. And we look to recommend what is the enterprise architecture and solution. And then third, before we aligned with our clients, we look to simulate and test this scaled up model. And the simulation gives our clients a way to see what cloud is going to look like, feel like and how it's going to transform their business before they go there. >>Tell us a little bit about that in real life. Now as a company, so many of people are working remotely having to collaborate, uh, not in real life. How is that helping them right now? >>So, um, the, the pandemic has put a tremendous strain on systems, uh, because of the demand on those systems. And so we talk about resiliency. We also now need to collaborate across data across people. Um, I think all of us are calling from a variety of different places where our last year we were all at the VA cube itself. Um, and, and cloud technologies such as teams, zoom that we're we're leveraging now has fundamentally accelerated and clients are looking to onboard this for their capabilities. They're trying to accelerate their journey. They realize that now the cloud is what is going to become important for them to differentiate. Once we come out of the pandemic and the ability to collaborate with their employees, their partners, and their clients through these systems is becoming a true business differentiator for our clients. >>Keisha, I want to talk with you now about my navs multiple capabilities, um, and helping clients design and navigate their cloud journeys. Tell us a little bit about the green cloud advisor capability and its significance, particularly as so many companies are thinking more deeply and thoughtfully about sustainability. >>Yes. So since the launch of my lab, we continue to enhance, uh, capabilities for our clients. One of the significant, uh, capabilities that we have enabled is the being taught advisor today. You know, Rebecca, a lot of the businesses are more environmentally aware and are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, uh, and obviously carbon emissions and, uh, and run a sustainable operations across every aspect of the enterprise. Uh, as a result, you're seeing an increasing trend in adoption of energy, efficient infrastructure in the global market. And one of the things that we did a lot of research we found out is that there's an ability to influence our client's carbon footprint through a better cloud solution. And that's what the internet brings to us, uh, in, in terms of a lot of the client connotation that you're seeing in Europe, North America and others, lot of our clients are accelerating to a green cloud strategy to unlock beta financial, societal and environmental benefit, uh, through obviously cloud-based circular, operational, sustainable products and services. That is something that we are enhancing my now, and we are having active client discussions at this point of time. >>So Tristan, tell us a little bit about how this capability helps clients make greener decisions. >>Yeah. Um, well, let's start about the investments from the cloud providers in renewable and sustainable energy. Um, they have most of the hyperscalers today, um, have been investing significantly on data centers that are run on renewable energy, some incredibly creative constructs on the how to do that. And sustainability is there for a key, um, key item of importance for the hyperscalers and also for our clients who now are looking for sustainable energy. And it turns out this marriage is now possible. I can, we marry the, the green capabilities of the comm providers with a sustainability agenda of our clients. And so what we look into the way the mine EF works is it looks at industry benchmarks and evaluates our current clients, um, capabilities and carpet footprint leveraging their existing data centers. We then look to model from an end-to-end perspective, how the, their journey to the cloud leveraging sustainable and, um, and data centers with renewable energy. We look at how their solution will look like and, and quantify carbon tax credits, um, improve a green index score and provide quantifiable, um, green cloud capabilities and measurable outcomes to our clients, shareholders, stakeholders, clients, and customers. Um, and our green plot advisers sustainability solutions already been implemented at three clients. And in many cases in two cases has helped them reduce the carbon footprint by up to 400% through migration from their existing data center to green cloud. Very, very, >>That is remarkable. Now tell us a little bit about the kinds of clients. Is this, is this more interesting to clients in Europe? Would you say that it's catching on in the United States? Where, what is the breakdown that you're seeing right now? >>Sustainability is becoming such a global agenda and we're seeing our clients, um, uh, tie this and put this at board level, um, uh, agenda and requirements across the globe. Um, Europe has specific constraints around data sovereignty, right, where they need their data in country, but from a green, a sustainability agenda, we see clients across all our markets, North America, Europe, and our growth markets adopt this. And we have seen case studies and all three months. >>Keisha, I want to bring you back into the conversation. Talk a little bit about how MindUP ties into Accenture's cloud first strategy, your Accenture's CEO, Julie Sweet has talked about post COVID leadership requiring every business to become a cloud first business. Tell us a little bit about how this ethos is in Accenture and how you're sort of looking outward with it too. >>So Rebecca mine is the launch pad, uh, to a cloud first transformation for our clients. Uh, Accenture, see your jewelry suite, uh, you know, shared the Accenture cloud first and our substantial investment demonstrate our commitment and is delivering greater value for our clients when they need it the most. And with the digital transformation requiring cloud at scale, you know, we're seeing that in the post COVID leadership, it requires that every business should become a cloud business. And my nap helps them get there by evaluating the cloud landscape, navigating the complexity, modeling architecting and simulating an optimal cloud solution for our clients. And as Justin was sharing a greener cloud. >>So Tristan, talk a little bit more about some of the real life use cases in terms of what are we, what are clients seeing? What are the results that they're having? >>Yes. Thank you, Rebecca. I would say two key things right around my neck. The first is the iterative process. Clients don't want to wait, um, until they get started, they want to get started and see what their journey is going to look like. And the second is fundamental acceleration, dependent make, as we talked about, has accelerated the need to move to cloud very quickly. And my nav is there to do that. So how do we do that? First is generating the business cases. Clients need to know in many cases that they have a business case by business case, we talk about the financial benefits, as well as the business outcomes, the green, green clot impact sustainability impacts with minus. We can build initial recommendations using a basic understanding of their environment and benchmarks in weeks versus months with indicative value savings in the millions of dollars arranges. >>So for example, very recently, we worked with a global oil and gas company, and in only two weeks, we're able to provide an indicative savings for $27 million over five years. This enabled the client to get started, knowing that there is a business case benefit and then iterate on it. And this iteration is, I would say the second point that is particularly important with my nav that we've seen in bank, the clients, which is, um, any journey starts with an understanding of what is the application landscape and what are we trying to do with those, these initial assessments that used to take six to eight weeks are now taking anywhere from two to four weeks. So we're seeing a 40 to 50% reduction in the initial assessment, which gets clients started in their journey. And then finally we've had discussions with all of the hyperscalers to help partner with Accenture and leverage mine after prepared their detailed business case module as they're going to clients. And as they're accelerating the client's journey, so real results, real acceleration. And is there a journey? Do I have a business case and furthermore accelerating the journey once we are by giving the ability to work in iterative approach. >>I mean, it sounds as though that the company that clients and and employees are sort of saying, this is an amazing time savings look at what I can do here in, in so much in a condensed amount of time, but in terms of getting everyone on board, one of the things we talked about last time we met, uh, Tristan was just how much, uh, how one of the obstacles is getting people to sign on and the new technologies and new platforms. Those are often the obstacles and struggles that companies face. Have you found that at all? Or what is sort of the feedback that you're getting from employers? >>Sorry. Yes. We clearly, there are always obstacles to a cloud journey. If there were an obstacles, all our clients would be, uh, already fully in the cloud. What man I gives the ability is to navigate through those, to start quickly. And then as we identify obstacles, we can simulate what things are going to look like. We can continue with certain parts of the journey while we deal with that obstacle. And it's a fundamental accelerator. Whereas in the past one, obstacle would prevent a class from starting. We can now start to address the obstacles one at a time while continuing and accelerating the contrary. That is the fundamental difference. >>Kishor I want to give you the final word here. Tell us a little bit about what is next for Accenture might have and what we'll be discussing next year at the Accenture executive summit >>Sort of echo, we are continuously evolving with our client needs and reinventing, reinventing for the future. For mine, as I've been taught advisor, our plan is to help our clients reduce carbon footprint and again, migrate to a green cloud. Uh, and additionally, we're looking at, you know, two capabilities, uh, which include sovereign cloud advisor, uh, with clients, especially in, in Europe and others are under pressure to meet, uh, stringent data norms that Kristen was talking about. And the sovereign cloud advisor health organization to create an architecture cloud architecture that complies with the green. Uh, I would say the data sovereignty norms that is out there. The other element is around data to cloud. We are seeing massive migration, uh, for, uh, for a lot of the data to cloud. And there's a lot of migration hurdles that come within that. Uh, we have expanded mine app to support assessment capabilities, uh, for, uh, assessing applications, infrastructure, but also covering the entire state, including data and the code level to determine the right cloud solution. So we are, we are pushing the boundaries on what mine app can do with mine. Have you created the ability to take the guesswork out of cloud navigate the complexity? We are roaring risks costs, and we are, you know, achieving client's static business objectives while building a sustainable alerts with being cloud >>Any platform that can take some of the guesswork out of the future. I'm I'm onboard with. Thank you so much, Tristin and Kishore. This has been a great conversation. >>Thank you. >>Stay tuned for more of the cubes coverage of the Accenture executive summit. I'm Rebecca Knight from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes coverage of 80 us reinvent 2020 virtual centric executive summit. The two great guests here to break down the analysis of the relationship with cloud and essential Brian bowhead director ahead of a century 80. It was business group at Amazon web services. And Andy T a B G the M is essentially Amazon business group lead managing director at Accenture. Uh, I'm sure you're super busy and dealing with all the action, Brian. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. So thank you. You guys essentially has been in the spotlight this week and all through the conference around this whole digital transformation, essentially as business group is celebrating its fifth anniversary. What's new, obviously the emphasis of next gen post COVID generation, highly digital transformation, a lot happening. You got your five-year anniversary, what's new. >>Yeah, it, you know, so if you look back, it's exciting. Um, you know, so it was five years ago. Uh, it was actually October where we, where we launched the Accenture AWS business group. And if we think back five years, I think we're still at the point where a lot of customers were making that transition from, you know, should I move to cloud to how do I move to cloud? Right? And so that was one of the reasons why we launched the business group. And since, since then, certainly we've seen that transition, right? Our conversations today are very much around how do I move to cloud, help me move, help me figure out the business case and then pull together all the different pieces so I can move more quickly, uh, you know, with less risk and really achieve my business outcomes. And I would say, you know, one of the things too, that's, that's really changed over the five years. >>And what we're seeing now is when we started, right, we were focused on migration data and IOT as the big three pillars that we launched with. And those are still incredibly important to us, but just the breadth of capability and frankly, the, the, the breadth of need that we're seeing from customers. And obviously as AWS has matured over the years and launched our new capabilities, we're Eva with Accenture and in the business group, we've broadened our capabilities and deepened our capabilities over the, over the last five years as well. For instance, this year with, with COVID, especially, it's really forced our customers to think differently about their own customers or their citizens, and how do they service those citizens? So we've seen a huge acceleration around customer engagement, right? And we powered that with Accenture customer engagement platform powered by ADA, Amazon connect. And so that's been a really big trend this year. And then, you know, that broadens our capability from just a technical discussion to one where we're now really reaching out and, and, um, and helping transform and modernize that customer and citizen experience as well, which has been exciting to see. >>Yeah, Andy, I want to get your thoughts here. We've been reporting and covering essentially for years. It's not like it's new to you guys. I mean, five years is a great anniversary. You know, check is good relationship, but you guys have been doing the work you've been on the trend line. And then this hits and Andy said on his keynote and I thought he said it beautifully. And he even said it to me in my one-on-one interview with them was it's on full display right now, the whole digital transformation, everything about it is on full display and you're either were prepared for it or you kind of word, and you can see who's there. You guys have been prepared. This is not new. So give us the update from your perspective, how you're taking advantage of this, of this massive shift, highly accelerated digital transformation. >>Well, I think, I think you can be prepared, but you've also got to be prepared to always sort of, I think what we're seeing in, in, um, in, in, in, in recent times and particularly 20 w what is it I think today there are, um, full sense of the enterprise workloads, the cloud, um, you know, that leaves 96 percentile now for him. Um, and I, over the next four to >>Five years, um, we're going to see that sort of, uh, acceleration to the, to the cloud pick up, um, this year is, as Andy touched on, I think, uh, uh, on Tuesday in his, I think the pandemic is a forcing function, uh, for companies to, to really pause and think about everything from, from, you know, how they, um, manage that technology to infrastructure, to just to carotenoids where the data sets to what insights and intelligence that getting from that data. And then eventually even to, to the talent, the talent they have in the organization and how they can be competitive, um, their culture, their culture of innovation, of invention and reinvention. And so I think, I think, you know, when you, when you think of companies out there faced with these challenges, it, it forces us, it forces AWS, it forces AEG to come together and think through how can we help create value for them? How can we help help them move from sort of just causing and rethinking to having real plans in an action and that taking them, uh, into, into implementation. And so that's, that's what we're working on. Um, I think over the next five years, we're looking to just continue to come together and help these, these companies get to the cloud and get the value from the cloud because it's beyond just getting to the cloud attached to them and living in the cloud and, and getting the value from it. >>It's interesting. Andy was saying, don't just put your toe in the water. You got to go beyond the toe in the water kind of approach. Um, I want to get to that large scale cause that's the big pickup this week that I kind of walked away with was it's large scale. Acceleration's not just toe in the water experimentation. Can you guys share, what's causing this large scale end to end enterprise transformation? And what are some of the success criteria have you seen for the folks who have done that? >>Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I'll start. And at the end you can buy a lawn. So, you know, it's interesting if I look back a year ago at re-invent and when I did the cube interview, then we were talking about how the ABG, we were starting to see this shift of customers. You know, we've been working with customers for years on a single of what I'll call a single-threaded programs, right. We can do a migration, we could do SAP, we can do a data program. And then even last year, we were really starting to see customers ask. The question is like, what kind of synergies and what kind of economies of scale do I get when I start bringing these different threads together, and also realizing that it's, you know, to innovate for the business and build new applications, new capabilities. Well, that then is going to inform what data you need to, to hydrate those applications, right? Which then informs your data strategy while a lot of that data is then also embedded in your underlying applications that sit on premises. So you should be thinking through how do you get those applications into the cloud? So you need to draw that line through all of those layers. And that was already starting last year. And so last year we launched the joint transformation program with AEG. And then, so we were ready when this year happened and then it was just an acceleration. So things have been happening faster than we anticipated, >>But we knew this was going to be happening. And luckily we've been in a really good position to help some of our customers really think through all those different layers of kind of pyramid as we've been calling it along with the talent and change pieces, which are also so important as you make this transformation to cloud >>Andy, what's the success factors. Andy Jassy came on stage during the partner day, a surprise fireside chat with Doug Hume and talking about this is really an opportunity for partners to, to change the business landscape with enablement from Amazon. You guys are in a pole position to do that in the marketplace. What's the success factors that you see, >>Um, really from three, three fronts, I'd say, um, w one is the people. Um, and, and I, I, again, I think Andy touched on sort of eight, uh, success factors, uh, early in the week. And for me, it's these three areas that it sort of boils down to these three areas. Um, one is the, the, the, the people, uh, from the leaders that it's really important to set those big, bold visions point the way. And then, and then, you know, set top down goals. How are we going to measure Z almost do get what you measure, um, to be, you know, beyond the leaders, to, to the right people in the right position across the company. We we're finding a key success factor for these end to end transformations is not just the leaders, but you haven't poached across the company, working in a, in a collaborative, shared, shared success model, um, and people who are not afraid to, to invent and fail. >>And so that takes me to perhaps the second point, which is the culture, um, it's important, uh, with finding for the right conditions to be set in the company that enabled, uh, people to move at pace, move at speed, be able to fail fast, um, keep things very, very simple and just keep iterating and that sort of culture of iteration and improvement versus seeking perfection is, is super important for, for success. And then the third part of maybe touch on is, is partners. Um, I think, you know, as we move forward over the next five years, we're going to see an increasing number of players in the ecosystem in the enterprise and state. Um, you're going to see more and more SAS providers. And so it's important for companies and our joint clients out there to pick partners like, um, like AWS or, or Accenture or others, but to pick partners who have all worked together and you have built solutions together, and that allows them to get speed to value quicker. It allows them to bring in pre-assembled solutions, um, and really just drive that transformation in a quicker, it sorts of manner. >>Yeah, that's a great point worth calling out, having that partnership model that's additive and has synergy in the cloud, because one of the things that came out of this this week, this year is reinvented, is there's new things going on in the public cloud, even though hybrid is an operating model, outpost and super relevant. There, there are benefits for being in the cloud and you've got partners API, for instance, and have microservices working together. This is all new, but I got, I got to ask that on that thread, Andy, where did you see your customers going? Because I think, you know, as you work backwards from the customers, you guys do, what's their needs, how do you see them? W you know, where's the puck going? Where can they skate where the puck's going, because you can almost look forward and say, okay, I've got to build modern apps. I got to do the digital transformation. Everything is a service. I get that, but what are they, what solutions are you building for them right now to get there? >>Yeah. And, and of course, with, with, you know, industries blurring and multiple companies, it's always hard to boil down to the exact situations, but you could probably look at it from a sort of a thematic lens. And what we're seeing is as the cloud transformation journey picks up, um, from us perspective, we've seen a material shift in the solutions and problems that we're trying to address with clients that they are asking for us, uh, to, to help, uh, address is no longer just the back office, where you're sort of looking at cost and efficiency and, um, uh, driving gains from that perspective. It's beyond that, it's now materially the top line. It's, how'd you get the driving to the, you know, speed to insights, how'd you get them decomposing, uh, their application set in order to derive those insights. Um, how'd you get them, um, to, to, um, uh, sort of adopt leading edge industry solutions that give them that jump start, uh, and that accelerant to winning the customers, winning the eyeballs. >>Um, and then, and then how'd, you help drive the customer experience. We're seeing a lot of push from clients, um, or ask for help on how do I optimize my customer experience in order to retain my eyeballs. And then how do I make sure I've got a soft self-learning ecosystem of play, um, where, uh, you know, it's not just a practical experience that I can sort of keep learning and iterating, um, how I treat my, my customers, um, and a lot of that, um, that still self-learning, that comes from, you know, putting in intelligence into your, into your systems, getting an AI and ML in there. And so, as a result of that work, we're seeing a lot of push and a lot of what we're doing, uh, is pouring investment into those areas. And then finally, maybe beyond the bottom line, and the top line is how do you harden that and protect that with, um, security and resilience? So I'll probably say those are the three areas. John, >>You know, the business model side, obviously the enablement is what Amazon has. Um, we see things like SAS factory coming on board and the partner network, obviously a century is a big, huge partner of you guys. Um, the business models there, you've got I, as, as doing great with chips, you have this data modeling this data opportunity to enable these modern apps. We heard about the partner strategy for me and D um, talking to me now about how can partners within even Accenture, w w what's the business model, um, side on your side that you're enabling this. Can you just share your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, yeah. And so it's, it's interesting. I think I'm going to build it and then build a little bit on some of the things that Andy really talked about there, right? And that we, if you think of that from the partnership, we are absolutely helping our customers with kind of that it modernization piece. And we're investing a lot and there's hard work that needs to get done there. And we're investing a lot as a partnership around the tools, the assets and the methodology. So in AWS and Accenture show up together as AEG, we are executing office single blueprint with a single set of assets, so we can move fast. So we're going to continue to do that with all the hybrid announcements from this past week, those get baked into that, that migration modernization theme, but the other really important piece here as we go up the stack, Andy mentioned it, right? >>The data piece, like so much of what we're talking about here is around data and insights. Right? I did a cube interview last week with, uh, Carl hick. Um, who's the CIO from Takeda. And if you hear Christophe Weber from Takeda talk, he talks about Takeda being a data company, data and insights company. So how do we, as a partnership, again, build the capabilities and the platforms like with Accenture's applied insights platform so that we can bootstrap and really accelerate our client's journey. And then finally, on the innovation on the business front, and Andy was touching on some of these, we are investing in industry solutions and accelerators, right? Because we know that at the end of the day, a lot of these are very similar. We're talking about ingesting data, using machine learning to provide insights and then taking action. So for instance, the cognitive insurance platform that we're working together on with Accenture, if they give out property and casualty claims and think about how do we enable touchless claims using machine learning and computer vision that can assess based on an image damage, and then be able to triage that and process it accordingly, right? >>Using all the latest machine learning capabilities from AWS with that deep, um, AI machine learning data science capability from Accenture, who knows all those algorithms that need to get built and build that library by doing that, we can really help these insurance companies accelerate their transformation around how they think about claims and how they can speed those claims on behalf of their policy holder. So that's an example of a, kind of like a bottom to top, uh, view of what we're doing in the partnership to address these new needs. >>That's awesome. Andy, I want to get back to your point about culture. You mentioned it twice now. Um, talent is a big part of the game here. Andy Jassy referenced Lambda. The next generation developers were using Lambda. He talked about CIO stories around, they didn't move fast enough. They lost three years. A new person came in and made it go faster. This is a new, this is a time for a certain kind of, um, uh, professional and individual, um, to, to be part of, um, this next generation. What's the talent strategy you guys have to attract and attain the best and retain the people. How do you do it? >>Um, you know, it's, it's, um, it's an interesting one. It's, it's, it's oftentimes a, it's, it's a significant point and often overlooked. Um, you know, people, people really matter and getting the right people, um, in not just in AWS or it, but then in our customers is super important. We often find that much of our discussions with, with our clients is centered around that. And it's really a key ingredient. As you touched on, you need people who are willing to embrace change, but also people who are willing to create new, um, to invent new, to reinvent, um, and to, to keep it very simple. Um, w we're we're we're seeing increasingly that you need people that have a sort of deep learning and a deep, uh, or deep desire to keep learning and to be very curious as, as they go along. Most of all, though, I find that, um, having people who are not willing or not afraid to fail is critical, absolutely critical. Um, and I think that that's, that's, uh, a necessary ingredient that we're seeing, um, our clients needing more off, um, because if you can't start and, and, and you can't iterate, um, you know, for fear of failure, you're in trouble. And, and I think Andy touched on that you, you know, where that CIO, that you referred to last three years, um, and so you really do need people who are willing to start not afraid to start, uh, and, uh, and not afraid to lead >>Was a gut check there. I just say, you guys have a great team over there. Everyone at the center I've interviewed strong, talented, and not afraid to lean in and, and into the trends. Um, I got to ask on that front cloud first was something that was a big strategic focus for Accenture. How does that fit into your business group? That's an Amazon focused, obviously they're cloud, and now hybrid everywhere, as I say, um, how does that all work it out? >>We're super excited about our cloud first initiative, and I think it fits it, um, really, uh, perfectly it's it's, it's what we needed. It's, it's, it's a, it's another accelerant. Um, if you think of count first, what we're doing is we're, we're putting together, um, uh, you know, capability set that will help enable him to and transformations as Brian touched on, you know, help companies move from just, you know, migrating to, to, to modernizing, to driving insights, to bringing in change, um, and, and, and helping on that, on that talent side. So that's sort of component number one is how does Accenture bring the best, uh, end to end transformation capabilities to our clients? Number two is perhaps, you know, how do we, um, uh, bring together pre-assembled as Brian touched on pre-assembled industry offerings to help as an accelerant, uh, for our, for our customers three years, as we touched on earlier is, is that sort of partnership with the ecosystem. >>We're going to see an increasing number of SAS providers in an estate, in the enterprise of snakes out there. And so, you know, panto wild cloud first, and our ABG strategy is to increase our touch points in our integrations and our solutions and our offerings with the ecosystem partners out there, the ISP partners out, then the SAS providers out there. And then number four is really about, you know, how do we, um, extend the definition of the cloud? I think oftentimes people thought of the cloud just as sort of on-prem and prem. Um, but, but as Andy touched on earlier this week, you know, you've, you've got this concept of hybrid cloud and that in itself, um, uh, is, is, is, you know, being redefined as well. You know, when you've got the intelligent edge and you've got various forms of the edge. Um, so that's the fourth part of, of, uh, of occupied for strategy. And for us was super excited because all of that is highly relevant for ABG, as we look to build those capabilities as industry solutions and others, and as when to enable our customers, but also how we, you know, as we, as we look to extend how we go to market, I'll join tele PS, uh, in, uh, in our respective skews and products. >>Well, what's clear now is that people now realize that if you contain that complexity, the upside is massive. And that's great opportunity for you guys. We got to get to the final question for you guys to weigh in on, as we wrap up next five years, Brian, Andy weigh in, how do you see that playing out? What do you see this exciting, um, for the partnership and the cloud first cloud, everywhere cloud opportunities share some perspective. >>Yeah, I, I think, you know, just kinda building on that cloud first, right? What cloud first, and we were super excited when cloud first was announced and you know, what it signals to the market and what we're seeing in our customers, which has cloud really permeates everything that we're doing now. Um, and so all aspects of the business will get infused with cloud in some ways, you know, it, it touches on, on all pieces. And I think what we're going to see is just a continued acceleration and getting much more efficient about pulling together the disparate, what had been disparate pieces of these transformations, and then using automation using machine learning to go faster. Right? And so, as we started thinking about the stack, right, well, we're going to get, I know we are, as a partnership is we're already investing there and getting better and more efficient every day as the migration pieces and the moving the assets to the cloud are just going to continue to get more automated, more efficient. And those will become the economic engines that allow us to fund the differentiated, innovative activities up the stack. So I'm excited to see us kind of invest to make those, those, um, those bets accelerated for customers so that we can free up capital and resources to invest where it's going to drive the most outcome for their end customers. And I think that's going to be a big focus and that's going to have the industry, um, you know, focus. It's going to be making sure that we can >>Consume the latest and greatest of AWS as capabilities and, you know, in the areas of machine learning and analytics, but then Andy's also touched on it bringing in ecosystem partners, right? I mean, one of the most exciting wins we had this year, and this year of COVID is looking at the universe, looking at Massachusetts, the COVID track and trace solution that we put in place is a partnership between Accenture, AWS, and Salesforce, right? So again, bringing together three really leading partners who can deliver value for our customers. I think we're going to see a lot more of that as customers look to partnerships like this, to help them figure out how to bring together the best of the ecosystem to drive solutions. So I think we're going to see more of that as well. >>All right, Andy final word, your take >>Thinks of innovation is, is picking up, um, dismiss things are just going faster and faster. I'm just super excited and looking forward to the next five years as, as you know, the technology invention, um, comes out and continues to sort of set new standards from AWS. Um, and as we, as Accenture wringing, our industry capabilities, we marry the two. We, we go and help our customers super exciting time. >>Well, congratulations on the partnership. I want to say thank you to you guys, because I've reported a few times some stories around real successes around this COVID pandemic that you guys worked together on with Amazon that really changed people's lives. Uh, so congratulations on that too as well. I want to call that out. Thanks for coming >>Up. Thank you. Thanks for coming on. >>Okay. This is the cubes coverage, essentially. AWS partnership, part of a century executive summit at Atrius reinvent 2020 I'm John for your host. Thanks. >>You're watching from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Hello, and welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. This is special programming for the century executive summit, where all the thought leaders going to extract the signal from the nose to share with you their perspective of this year's reinvent conference, as it respects the customers' digital transformation. Brian Bohan is the director and head of a center. ADA was business group at Amazon web services. Brian, great to see you. And Chris Wegman is the, uh, center, uh, Amazon business group technology lead at Accenture. Um, guys, this is about technology vision, this, this conversation, um, Chris, I want to start with you because you, Andy Jackson's keynote, you heard about the strategy of digital transformation, how you gotta lean into it. You gotta have the guts to go for it, and you got to decompose. He went everywhere. So what, what did you hear? What was striking about the keynote? Because he covered a lot of topics. Yeah. You know, it >>Was Epic, uh, as always for Mandy, a lot of topics, a lot to cover in the three hours. Uh, there was a couple of things that stood out for me, first of all, hybrid, uh, the concept, the new concept of hybrid and how Andy talked about it, you know, uh, bringing the compute and the power to all parts of the enterprise, uh, whether it be at the edge or are in the big public cloud, uh, whether it be in an outpost or wherever it might be right with containerization now, uh, you know, being able to do, uh, Amazon containerization in my data center and that that's, that's awesome. I think that's gonna make a big difference, all that being underneath the Amazon, uh, console and billing and things like that, which is great. Uh, I'll also say the, the chips, right. And I know compute is always something that, you know, we always kind of take for granted, but I think again, this year, uh, Amazon and Andy really focused on what they're doing with the chips and PR and compute, and the compute is still at the heart of everything in cloud. And that continued advancement is, is making an impact and will make a continue to make a big impact. >>Yeah, I would agree. I think one of the things that really, I mean, the container thing was, I think really kind of a nuanced point when you got Deepak sing on the opening day with Andy Jassy and he's, he runs a container group over there, you know, small little team he's on the front and front stage. That really is the key to the hybrid. And I think this showcases this new layer and taking advantage of the graviton two chips that, which I thought was huge. Brian, this is really a key part of the platform change, not change, but the continuation of AWS higher level servers building blocks that provide more capabilities, heavy lifting as they say, but the new services that are coming on top really speaks to hybrid and speaks to the edge. >>It does. Yeah. And it, it, you know, I think like Andy talks about, and we talk about, I, you know, we really want to provide choice to our customers, uh, first and foremost, and you can see that and they re uh, services. We have, we can see it in the, the hybrid options that Chris talked about, being able to run your containers through ECS or EKS anywhere I just get to the customer's choice. And one of the things that I'm excited about as you talk about going up the stack and on the edge are things will certainly outpost. Um, right. So now I'll post those launched last year, but then with the new form factors, uh, and then you look at services like Panorama, right? Being able to take computer vision and embed machine learning and computer vision, and do that as a managed capability at the edge, um, for customers. >>And so we see this across a number of industries. And so what we're really thinking about is customers no longer have to make trade-offs and have to think about those, those choices that they can really deploy, uh, natively in the cloud. And then they can take those capabilities, train those models, and then deploy them where they need to, whether that's on premises or at the edge, you know, whether it be in a factory or retail environment. When we start, I think we're really well positioned when, um, you know, hopefully next year we started seeing the travel industry rebound, um, and the, the need, you know, more than ever really to, uh, to kind of rethink about how we kind of monitor and make those environments safe. Having this kind of capability at the edge is really going to help our customers as, as we come out of this year and hopefully rebound next year. >>Yeah. Chris, I want to go back to you for a second. It's hard to hard to pick your favorite innovation from the keynote, because, you know, just reminded me that Brian just reminded me of some things I forgot happened. It was like a buffet of innovation. Some keynotes have one or two, it was like 20, you got the industrial piece that was huge. Computer vision machine learning. That's just a game changer. The connect thing came out of nowhere, in my opinion, I mean, it's a call center technology. This is boring as hell. What are you gonna do with that? It turns out it's a game changer. It's not about the calls with the contact and that's discern intermediating, um, in the stack as well. So again, a feature that looks old is actually new and relevant. What's your, what was your favorite, um, innovation? >>Uh, it it's, it's, it's hard to say. I will say my personal favorite was the, the maca last. I, I just, I think that is a phenomenal, um, uh, just addition, right? And the fact that AWS is, has worked with Apple to integrate the Nitra chip into, into, uh, you know, the iMac and offer that out. Um, you know, a lot of people are doing development, uh, on for ILS and that stuff. And that there's just gonna be a huge benefit, uh, for the development teams. But, you know, I will say, I'll come back to connect you. You mentioned it. Um, you know, but you're right. It was a, it's a boring area, but it's an area that we've seen huge success with since, since connect was launched and the additional features and the Amazon continues to bring, you know, um, obviously with, with the pandemic and now that, you know, customer engagement through the phone, uh, through omni-channel has just been critical for companies, right. >>And to be able to have those agents at home, working from home versus being in the office, it was a huge, huge advantage for, for several customers that are using connect. You know, we, we did some great stuff with some different customers, but the continue technology, like you said, the, you know, the call translation and during a call to be able to pop up those key words and have a, have a supervisor, listen is awesome. And a lot of that was some of that was already being done, but we were stitching multiple services together. Now that's right out of the box. Um, and that Google's location is only going to make that go faster and make us to be able to innovate faster for that piece of the business. >>It's interesting, you know, not to get all nerdy and, and business school life, but you've got systems of records, systems of engagement. If you look at the call center and the connect thing, what got my attention was not only the model of disintermediating, that part of the engagement in the stack, but what actually cloud does to something that's a feature or something that could be an element, like say, call center, you old days of, you know, calling an 800 number, getting some support you got in chip, you have machine learning, you actually have stuff in the, in the stack that actually makes that different now. So you w you know, the thing that impressed me was Andy was saying, you could have machine learning, detect pauses, voice inflections. So now you have technology making that more relevant and better and different. So a lot going on, this is just one example of many things that are happening from a disruption innovation standpoint. W what do you guys, what do you guys think about that? And is that like getting it right? Can you share it? >>I think, I think, I think you are right. And I think what's implied there and what you're saying, and even in the, you know, the macro S example is the ability if we're talking about features, right. Which by themselves, you're saying, Oh, wow, what's, what's so unique about that, but because it's on AWS and now, because whether you're a developer working on, you know, w with Mac iOS and you have access to the 175 plus services, that you can then weave into your new applications, talk about the connect scenario. Now we're embedding that kind of inference and machine learning to do what you say, but then your data Lake is also most likely running in AWS, right? And then the other channels, whether they be mobile channels or web channels, or in store physical channels, that data can be captured in that same machine learning could be applied there to get that full picture across the spectrum. Right? So that's the, that's the power of bringing together on AWS to access to all those different capabilities of services, and then also the where the data is, and pulling all that together, that for that end to end view, okay, >>You guys give some examples of work you've done together. I know this stuff we've reported on. Um, in the last session we talked about some of the connect stuff, but that kind of encapsulates where this, where this is all going with respect to the tech. >>Yeah. I think one of the, you know, it was called out on Doug's partner summit was, you know, is there a, uh, an SAP data Lake accelerator, right? Almost every enterprise has SAP, right. And SAP getting data out of SAP has always been a challenge, right. Um, whether it be through, you know, data warehouses and AWS, sorry, SAP BW, you know, what we've focused on is, is getting that data when you're on have SAP on AWS getting that data into the data Lake, right. And getting it into, into a model that you can pull the value out of the customers can pull the value out, use those AI models. Um, so that was one thing we worked on in the last 12 months, super excited about seeing great success with customers. Um, you know, a lot of customers had ideas. They want to do this. They had different models. What we've done is, is made it very, uh, simplified, uh, framework that allows customers to do it very quickly, get the data out there and start getting value out of it and iterating on that data. Um, we saw customers are spending way too much time trying to stitch it all together and trying to get it to work technically. Uh, and we've now cut all that out and they can immediately start getting down to, to the data and taking advantage of those, those different, um, services are out there by AWS. >>Brian, you want to weigh in as things you see as relevant, um, builds that you guys done together that kind of tease out the future and connect the dots to what's coming. >>Uh, I, you know, I'm going to use a customer example. Uh, we worked with, um, and it just came out with, with Unilever around their blue air connected, smart air purifier. And what I think is interesting about that, I think it touches on some of the themes we're talking about, as well as some of the themes we talked about in the last session, which is we started that program before the pandemic. Um, and, but, you know, Unilever recognized that they needed to differentiate their product in the marketplace, move to more of a services oriented business, which we're seeing as a trend. We, uh, we enabled this capability. So now it's a smart air purifier that can be remote manage. And now in the pandemic head, they are in a really good position, obviously with a very relevant product and capability, um, to be used. And so that data then, as we were talking about is going to reside on the cloud. And so the learning that can now happen about usage and about, you know, filter changes, et cetera, can find its way back into future iterations of that valve, that product. And I think that's, that's keeping with, you know, uh, Chris was talking about where we might be systems of record, like in SAP, how do we bring those in and then start learning from that data so that we can get better on our future iterations? >>Hey, Chris, on the last segment we did on the business mission, um, session, Andy Taylor from your team, uh, talked about partnerships within a century and working with other folks. I want to take that now on the technical side, because one of the things that we heard from, um, Doug's, um, keynote and that during the partner day was integrations and data were two big themes. When you're in the cloud, technically the integrations are different. You're going to get unique things in the public cloud that you're just not going to get on premise access to other cloud native technologies and companies. How has that, how do you see the partnering of Accenture with people within your ecosystem and how the data and the integration play together? What's your vision? >>Yeah, I think there's two parts of it. You know, one there's from a commercial standpoint, right? So marketplace, you know, you, you heard Dave talk about that in the, in the partner summit, right? That marketplace is now bringing together this ecosystem, uh, in a very easy way to consume by the customers, uh, and by the users and bringing multiple partners together. And we're working with our ecosystem to put more products out in the marketplace that are integrated together, uh, already. Um, you know, I think one from a technical perspective though, you know, if you look at Salesforce, you know, we talked a little earlier about connect another good example, technically underneath the covers, how we've integrated connect and Salesforce, some of it being prebuilt by AWS and Salesforce, other things that we've added on top of it, um, I think are good examples. And I think as these ecosystems, these IFCs put their products out there and start exposing more and more API APIs, uh, on the Amazon platform, make opening it up, having those, those prebuilt network connections there between, you know, the different VPCs and the different areas within, within a customer's network. >>Um, and having them, having that all opened up and connected and having all that networking done underneath the covers. You know, it's one thing to call the API APIs. It's one thing to have access to those. And that's been a big focus of a lot of, you know, ISBNs and customers to build those API APIs and expose them, but having that network infrastructure and being able to stay within the cloud within AWS to make those connections, the past that data, we always talk about scale, right? It's one thing if I just need to pass like a, you know, a simple user ID back and forth, right? That's, that's fine. We're not talking massive data sets, whether it be seismic data or whatever it be passing those of those large, those large data sets between customers across the Amazon network is going to, is going to open up the world. >>Yeah. I see huge possibilities there and love to keep on this story. I think it's going to be important and something to keep track of. I'm sure you guys will be on top of it. You know, one of the things I want to, um, dig into with you guys now is Andy had kind of this philosophy philosophical thing in his keynote, talk about societal change and how tough the pandemic is. Everything's on full display. Um, and this kind of brings out kind of like where we are and the truth. You look at the truth, it's a virtual event. I mean, it's a website and you got some sessions out there with doing remote best weekend. Um, and you've got software and you've got technology and, you know, the concept of a mechanism it's software, it does something, it does a purpose. Essentially. You guys have a concept called living systems where growth strategy powered by technology. How do you take the concept of a, of a living organism or a system and replace the mechanism, staleness of computing and software. And this is kind of an interesting, because we're on the cusp of a, of a major inflection point post COVID. I get the digital transformation being slow that's yes, that's happening. There's other things going on in society. What do you guys think about this living systems concept? >>Yeah, so I, you know, I'll start, but, you know, I think the living system concept, um, you know, it started out very much thinking about how do you rapidly change the system, right? And, and because of cloud, because of, of dev ops, because of, you know, all these software technologies and processes that we've created, you know, that's where it started it, making it much easier to make it a much faster being able to change rapidly, but you're right. I think as you now bring in more technologies, the AI technology self-healing technologies, again, you're hurting Indian in his keynote, talk about, you know, the, the systems and services they're building to the tech problems and, and, and, and give, uh, resolve those problems. Right. Obviously automation is a big part of that living systems, you know, being able to bring that all together and to be able to react in real time to either what a customer, you know, asks, um, you know, either through the AI models that have been generated and turning those AI models around much faster, um, and being able to get all the information that came came in in the last 20 minutes, right. >>You know, society's moving fast and changing fast. And, you know, even in one part of the world, if, um, something, you know, in 10 minutes can change and being able to have systems to react to that, learn from that and be able to pass that on to the next country, especially in this world with COVID and, you know, things changing very quickly with quickly and, and, and, um, diagnosis and, and, um, medical response, all that so quickly to be able to react to that and have systems pass that information learned from that information is going to be critical. >>That's awesome. Brian, one of the things that comes up every year is, Oh, the cloud scalable this year. I think, you know, we've, we've talked on the cube before, uh, years ago, certainly with the censure and Amazon, I think it was like three or four years ago. Yeah. The clouds horizontally scalable, but vertically specialized at the application layer. But if you look at the data Lake stuff that you guys have been doing, where you have machine learning, the data's horizontally scalable, and then you got the specialization in the app changes that changes the whole vertical thing. Like you don't need to have a whole vertical solution or do you, so how has this year's um, cloud news impacted vertical industries because it used to be, Oh, the oil and gas financial services. They've got a team for that. We've got a stack for that. Not anymore. Is it going away? What's changing. Wow. >>I, you know, I think it's a really good question. And I don't think, I think what we're saying, and I was just on a call this morning talking about banking and capital markets. And I do think the, you know, the, the challenges are still pretty sector specific. Um, but what we do see is the, the kind of commonality, when we start looking at the, and we talked about it as the industry solutions that we're building as a partnership, most of them follow the pattern of ingesting data, analyzing that data, and then being able to, uh, provide insights and an actions. Right. So if you think about creating that yeah. That kind of common chassis of that ingest the data Lake and then the machine learning, can you talk about, you know, the announces around SageMaker and being able to manage these models, what changes then really are the very specific industries algorithms that you're, you're, you're writing right within that framework. And so we're doing a lot in connect is a good example of this too, where you look at it. Yeah. Customer service is a horizontal capability that we're building out, but then when you stop it into insurance or retail banking or utilities, there are nuances then that we then extend and build so that we meet the unique needs of those, those industries. And that's usually around those, those models. >>Yeah. And I think this year was the first reinvented. I saw real products coming out that actually solve that problem. And that was their last year SageMaker was kinda moving up the stack, but now you have apps embedding machine learning directly in, and users don't even know it's in there. I mean, Christmas is kind of where it's going. Right. I mean, >>Yeah. Announcements. Right. How many, how many announcements where machine learning is just embedded in? I mean, so, you know, code guru, uh, dev ops guru Panorama, we talked about, it's just, it's just there. >>Yeah. I mean, having that knowledge about the linguistics and the metadata, knowing the, the business logic, those are important specific use cases for the vertical and you can get to it faster. Right. Chris, how is this changing on the tech side, your perspective? Yeah. >>You know, I keep coming back to, you know, AWS and cloud makes it easier, right? None of this stuff, you know, all of this stuff can be done, uh, and has some of it has been, but you know, what Amazon continues to do is make it easier to consume by the developer, by the, by the customer and to actually embedded into applications much easier than it would be if I had to go set up the stack and build it all on that and, and, and, uh, embed it. Right. So it's, shortcutting that process. And again, as these products continue to mature, right. And some of the stuff is embedded, um, it makes that process so much faster. Uh, it makes it reduces the amount of work required by the developers, uh, the engineers to get there. So I I'm expecting, you're going to see more of this. >>Right. I think you're going to see more and more of these multi connected services by AWS that has a lot of the AIML, um, pre-configured data lakes, all that kind of stuff embedded in those services. So you don't have to do it yourself and continue to go up the stack. And we was talking about, Amazon's built for builders, right. But, you know, builders, you know, um, have been super specialized in, or we're becoming, you know, as engineers, we're being asked to be bigger and bigger and to be, you know, uh, be able to do more stuff. And I think, you know, these kinds of integrated services are gonna help us do that >>And certainly needed more. Now, when you have hybrid edge that are going to be operating with microservices on a cloud model, and with all those advantages that are going to come around the corner for being in the cloud, I mean, there's going to be, I think there's going to be a whole clarity around benefits in the cloud with all these capabilities and benefits cloud guru. Thanks my favorite this year, because it just points to why that could happen. I mean, that happens because of the cloud data. If you're on premise, you may not have a little cloud guru, you got to got to get more data. So, but they're all different edge certainly will come into your vision on the edge. Chris, how do you see that evolving for customers? Because that could be complex new stuff. How is it going to get easier? >>Yeah. It's super complex now, right? I mean, you gotta design for, you know, all the different, uh, edge 5g, uh, protocols are out there and, and, and solutions. Right. You know, Amazon's simplifying that again, to come back to simplification. Right. I can, I can build an app that, that works on any 5g network that's been integrated with AWS. Right. I don't have to set up all the different layers to get back to my cloud or back to my, my bigger data side. And I was kind of choking. I don't even know where to call the cloud anymore, big cloud, which is a central and I go down and then I've got a cloud at the edge. Right. So what do I call that? >>Exactly. So, you know, again, I think it is this next generation of technology with the edge comes, right. And we put more and more data at the edge. We're asking for more and more compute at the edge, right? Whether it be industrial or, you know, for personal use or consumer use, um, you know, that processing is gonna get more and more intense, uh, to be able to manage and under a single console, under a single platform and be able to move the code that I develop across that entire platform, whether I have to go all the way down to the, you know, to the very edge, uh, at the, at the 5g level, right? Or all the way into the bigger cloud and how that process, isn't there be able to do that. Seamlessly is going to be allow the speed of development that's needed. >>Well, you guys done a great job and no better time to be a techie or interested in technology or computer science or social science for that matter. This is a really perfect storm, a lot of problems to solve a lot of things, a lot of change happening, positive change opportunities, a lot of great stuff. Uh, final question guys, five years working together now on this partnership with AWS and Accenture, um, congratulations, you guys are in pole position for the next wave coming. Um, what's exciting. You guys, Chris, what's on your mind, Brian. What's, what's getting you guys pumped up >>Again. I come back to G you know, Andy mentioned it in his keynote, right? We're seeing customers move now, right. We're seeing, you know, five years ago we knew customers were going to get a new, this. We built a partnership to enable these enterprise customers to make that, that journey. Right. But now, you know, even more, we're seeing them move at such great speed. Right. Which is super excites me. Right. Because I can see, you know, being in this for a long time, now I can see the value on the other end. And I really, we've been wanting to push our customers as fast as they can through the journey. And now they're moving out of, they're getting, they're getting the religion, they're getting there. They see, they need to do it to change your business. So that's what excites me is just the excites me. >>It's just the speed at which we're, we're in a single movement. Yeah, yeah. I'd agree with, yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, so, you know, obviously getting, getting customers to the cloud is super important work, and we're obviously doing that and helping accelerate that, it's it, it's what we've been talking about when we're there, all the possibilities that become available right. Through the common data capabilities, the access to the 175 some-odd AWS services. And I also think, and this is, this is kind of permeated through this week at re-invent is the opportunity, especially in those industries that do have an industrial aspect, a manufacturing aspect, or a really strong physical aspect of bringing together it and operational technology and the business with all these capabilities, then I think edge and pushing machine learning down to the edge and analytics at the edge is really going to help us do that. And so I'm super excited by all that possibility is I feel like we're just scratching the surface there, >>Great time to be building out. And you know, this is the time for re reconstruction. Re-invention big themes. So many storylines in the keynote, in the events. It's going to keep us busy here. It's looking at angle in the cube for the next year. Gentlemen, thank you for coming out. I really appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Great conversation. You're getting technical. We could've go on another 30 minutes. Lot to talk about a lot of storylines here at AWS. Reinvent 2020 at the Centure executive summit. I'm John furrier. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah. Welcome to the cubes. Virtual coverage of 80 was reinvent 2020. I'm John for your host. We are the Cube virtual not there in person, but we're doing remote, as is a W s. Although there there on stage live. And we're here with Dave Brown, Vice President of the Sea, to compute. Great to see you again. Great keynote last night, kicking off everything for the opening night. Great stuff. >>Yeah, well, John, it's always good to be on the Cuban. Thanks for having me back. >>You know, you're in the hot seat these days in the sense of there's so much going on. I mean, Andy, that could do a three week announcement. Keynote. It was like in three hours of nonstop you take a break to go The bathroom. You missed two announcements, right? So, so much going on. You opened up reinvent 2020 with your announcement ec2 of mac instances. And there was a ton of compute. And the theme was really you know, reinventing and reimagining compute both. I want to get into that. But let's start with the hard news. Tell me about the Mac instances. Um, you had a great use case there, That kind of illustrated in your talk. But where is this coming from? It's obviously Mac developers are big, but is this market something that you guys saw from customers or was a necessity? Take us through the thinking around the Mac instance. Easy to for Mac instances, um are going for >>absolutely absolutely So I mean me personally Matthews, a longtime Matthews that we've often thought about. Could we ever bring Mac OS to AWS? Right This thing we've spoken about on and off for many, many years and, you know, it was about a year and a half about two years ago. You know, we're always hearing new use cases from customers, and that's kind of what we're doing. So we're saying what a customer is trying to do that we don't support today, and how would we support them in that? And we started a year from customers that they have been able to successfully migrate all of the AWS workloads to AWS. So most of the server workloads to AWS and then they've got this Mac bold workload that they just weren't able to bring to us. We just didn't support Max into. It was a great example who I had on stage with me last night where you know, they over the last couple of years have been moving Ah, lot of their workloads to AWS. And and then they had these Mac money sitting around that they had to manage themselves. And so we said, could we actually do this? And so that was the one thing the customer ask. And the other thing that we realized was with the nitro system in the work that we've been doing there over the last, you know, six years, seven years since 2012, Really? And just where we are from the From nitro system point of view, we were able to wrap a Mac money without making any changes to it with nitro cards plugging a FireWire to the thunderbolt port and and and actually control that device. And so it means that you get the best of Apple hardware, which is what Apple's all about is the hard way that they make and the way that their software works with it. together with the nitric system and the cards around that inte integrating with the rest of AWS. So we're giving you, you know, high speed secure networking. We're giving you great access to elastic block store Was just integrates natively into the magma Nias? Well, a So we realized that the technology was there, the customer asked, was there and then obviously went to Apple and worked with them very closely to make it happen. And so that's kind of how it all came together. And I was incredibly excited to announce it last night. And the feedback today has just been amazing. A lot of excitement. >>Yeah, take me through the use case because, you know, obviously there's two trends going on. There's custom chips and server list kind of thing happening where you guys, I mean, really doing a good job of the eye as layer, innovating there and then platform as a service. All that software on top. I totally get that. You could see that happening. Chips custom ships to Intel, A, M, D. And others. Now you got Mac hardware. Where's the innovation use case because one would start would say, Hey, why don't you care about whether it's Mac hardware or not. Because I'm server lists. I should be programming the infrastructure actually be getting compute generically. Where does the Mac tying come in? Because that's the first question I was thinking of was, I'm a Mac user. I love Mac, but I'm also got some windows actually going on now. And ultimately, do I really care if it's compute? What's your reaction to that? Yeah, >>absolutely. I mean, if you look at Apple's ecosystem today, right, they have millions of applications in the APP store. They have 28 million developers worldwide, actually building those applications just incredible. And many of those applications, all these millions in the In the APP store itself, there's many more applications that are both by enterprises and companies, right? We have an application that we use internally at Amazon is available on my phone. That's not in the APP store, and you know, many companies are doing that and to build applications for the ecosystem, they have to be built on Mac hardware. And that's just how Apple works, right? So if you wanna build for iPad or iPhone or even Apple TV and Apple watch, you have to build those applications on a Mac. And so what we see companies doing is, you know, the old develop a meme off. Well, it works on my computer, right when you build something, you don't wanna be bullied on your local laptop for production. So they typically have a fleet of machines that they either under somebody's desk or in a data center somewhere that they use for for building these Mac applications. And so it's not possible to build a Mac application on anything other than a Mac itself. And we when we looked at it, we really didn't feel that virtualization made sense, right? Apple? I mean, they have some some virtualization that they're able to do within Mac OS itself. But if you think about how do we solve the customer use case, it's really bringing apple hardware too easy to to solve the problem and giving customers that exactly same exact same experience that they have on prep. And if you look into it like that, models just worked right. We gave them better access. Uh, you know, they've been using that data which you normally say, Hey, don't don't run production workloads on a beta. But you know, I found out if I interview with the BPS at Intuit critique that they've actually moved 80% of their production pulled wear clothes too easy to already to run on the Mac instances. And so that, and that's in the space of two months. And so, just as seamless ability to move because it's the same hardware is kind of what we were going >>after. Great, thanks for sharing that and say, one thing I wanna point out is Mac does have their own chips as well. They're going custom chips. Amazon's going custom chips. And I think I think you nailed what I was trying to understand, which is this developer community for Mac. And there's some things that are purpose built for Mac devices. So on Mac ecosystem, get the marketplace as well as you know, that that was the hardware PCs and devices, and they're only doing more and more. So this brings me to the i o t. Um, piece of it, because Apple does make devices that people wear and I watch is, um, iPhones. I mean, they're not computers anymore. They're everything. So this kind of brings up the edge conversation. So whether it's an iPhone or a five G in a Metro or I'm a stadium watching a football game and there's some sensor camera vision industrial thing there, this is the new normal. This is where you guys are kind of eating, eating up the software side that that business, because there's new capabilities here. Can you explain how compute he's, particularly C two gets to the edges because no one wants to move data around. They wanna move, compute, not data, because data is expensive and it's and it's fat. So we we talked about that we keep on years ago, but you gotta move. Compute. So how does that work Take us through your vision? >>Absolutely. And this is This is a massively growing area for us. I mean, you mentioned Apple's new M one silicon Apple silicon that they just launched a swell, and we're super excited about Apple's been doing there. We've been doing the same thing with our grab. It's on two processor and really saving customers. An incredible amount on price performance. Tried customers moving and getting 40% improvement and price performance just by moving to grab it on too. It's just incredible. Um, in terms of the edge, you know, we started this journey. We started this journey quite some time ago and bringing, you know, Lambda functions to cloudwatch and things like that. How do we bring compute to the edge? We took a look at five G, which I think it's gonna feel a lot of this right if if we look at our cell phones today was actually just talking to the Apple team yesterday with the iPhone, only came out, you know, 13 years ago. It's kind of amazing to think just how much progress we've had and what four g did for the device that's in our pocket in terms of, you know, just how much we rely on that today and what we get. Well, five g is just a step function in both in terms of latency, but also in terms of throughput. And so, you know, one of the projects we announced last year with Verizon and we now Andy announced this morning we're also gonna be rolling out with Katy D I and SK Telecom and Vodafone next year. Um is a project always like that brings aws compute to the edge of the telco network. And so with Verizon, we now have eight locations around the U. S. Where we have AWS compute capacity. And what I mean by that is literally C five instances uh, G four GPU instances for customers that want to do influence and graphics processing on the edge. And that's embedded into the five G network on DSO customers. You know, we've got a number of customers that are doing a lot of interesting things with five G in the sports area, where they have five G cameras that are, you know, submitted directly to wavelength. We no longer need to drive a truck to a stadium to record a game. You just have five G cameras, um, to, you know, automated factories where they doing robotics in factories and yet really low latency. And they don't want the computer, the factory they wanted in five G and so just exciting area for us. That's growing really, really quickly. Thea Other thing we did is obviously with local zones. We launched our first local zones in L a X last year, Los Angeles on that's being used by the movie industry, so you know right now is a lot of exciting up and running off the covert and shut down for a period of time and filming the next release of all of our favorite episodes and across all of these various streaming platforms. And a lot of that work is actually the post production is being done on on AWS on G four instances within the Los Angeles region. So, you know, very low agency for colorization animation, special effects, all that sort of things happening there. What we heard from a lot of customers was they loved outposts as well, which is our offering to put a server into a data center. And you heard from riot games in Andy's Keynote, where they actually bought a number of outposts and put them all over the U. S. And also other places of the world to really lower the Leighton see for their latest game. And so what Andy also just announced is the availability off three additional local zones. So Atlanta, Miami and Houston Sorry, Boston Miami in Houston available today, and then additional 12 available local zones next year, and what that does is that sort of spreads AWS capacity compute capacity at the edge in all of our major metropolitan hubs all of their capacities on the AWS backbone as well, but brings customers that low latency connectivity that they're looking for. Gaming developers were, you know, every every millisecond counts in terms of gameplay on so super excited to be going after that use case, which I think, you know, it's difficult to tell what the next 10 years is gonna be like. But I think Layton's he's gonna have a big part to play in the types of applications we see on our phones going forward. >>Great stuff, final question for you as we wrap up, obviously with virtualization with virtualization. But you know, the cove it is. And he pointed out, People are gonna change, is gonna be winners and losers. He kind of clearly pointed out, But the people who do lean into the cloud who have been on the cloud or taking advantage of the tail winds of cove in because of the capabilities there are two bills air higher, and you should be happy for that. But they're also gonna have more demand for you to say, Hey, I need more services. So How do you speak to those people who are leaning in who are leveraging, more, compute? What should they be looking at? What kinds of services should be connecting into compute? How should they be thinking about the future of compute so that they can take advantage of those capabilities? The lower costs, higher performance? What things are complementary for these customers as they come in, not toe dip in the water kind of things against really driving. And what do they need? >>Yeah, absolutely. And this has been a big focus on us. You know, things has bean, as I cover in my keynote, which leadership session that I'm doing tomorrow Wednesday. You know, a lot of this year has been helping customers through covert and what covert is meant for their business. Whether that is cost savings for many of them or whether it's just demand, you know that they've never experienced are expected before. I mean, we've been incredibly hard at work in servicing those customers, right? I actually catch up with Scott Sikora. In my keynote. He leads our capacity team. We talked through what it meant and how we actually provided the capacity that our customers needed during Colbert Times. But for a customer moving to us, the first thing is obviously we wanna find ways to make them very successful in the cloud, but more importantly, lower price performance for them. So what we wanted to do is give them the best possible performance that's available at the lowest possible cost. And if you look at a number of the announcements that Andy made today, you know whether it's our latest graviton processor where you can, you know, when you move to arm. I think customers often overestimate how much work it will be to move to arm. And when I talked to them after they have moved, that's ahead. Wasn't actually that much work. We actually got it up and running relatively quickly. So what's simpler than people expect? But that's an opportunity to save 40% on price performance. You know these new newer workloads like our graphics. We just launched a new G four a D, which is an AMG based GPU solution, the first time we have had an AMG GPU on the EEC too. And that's also looking to say, if you know upwards of 40% price performance of other GPU offering so just incredibly exciting for graphics, work, clothes and then in the machine learning space. Like I think, if you know, machine learning is just become the new normal, like everybody is doing it. And you know, just three years ago, everybody was thinking about whether they should do it. How would how they would use it Now that it's a lot of companies are doing it. It's really How do you How do I use it more? And that comes down to again saving costs. And so what we know with without Inferential Chip and then the new Habbaniya chip we just announced it with with the work with Intel that we're doing and then a new trainee, um, ship for training, training. We're really working to lower the cost of machine learning. And so, like we've seen many customers like Alexa was a great use case the other day. Being able to lower the cost of inference for Alexa by 35% again just helps customers, you know, move to the cloud. But I mean, just generally, you know, we're trying to support customers everywhere where there were, you know, if there are many customers are in their own data centers looking to move to AWS. You know, we have great models that can support them with our existing compute. A new savings plan offering we announced last year just great for saving costs on getting the price down So a lot. You can look at it. You know, I could go on forever. Really. It >>Certainly it's certainly is MAWR. We'll we'll do a deeper dive follow up after reinvent, but it is a wake up call. As I wrote in my post, um, for a cloud on Finally, I've been saying this for years. Horizontal scalability is a disruption on the infrastructure side, but you've got vertical specialization with data to create great modern apse of machine learning. And I actually playing out in full display here is Andy said, um, net right now. So all this benefits and all these opportunities to disrupt horizontally and then leverage the data all tied together, all coming together. You're clear. Leading the team. Great Brown, vice president of E C. Two in charge of the team that's driving the future. Compute. Thanks for coming on The Cube Cube Live coverage. Thanks. >>Thanks for having me. >>Okay. I'm John for the Q back for more live coverage after this short break

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of AWS Reinvent Executive Summit 2020. Sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >> Welcome everyone to theCUBE virtual coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit part of AWS Re-invent 2020. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are talking today about reinventing the energy data platform. We have two guests joining us. First, we have Johan Krebbers. He is the GM Digital Emerging Technologies and VP of IT Innovation at Shell. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Johan. >> You're welcome. >> Rebecca: And next we have Liz Dennett. She is the Lead Solution Architect for OSDU on AWS. Thank you so much Liz. >> Happy to be here. >> So I want to start our conversation by talking about OSDU. Like so many great innovations, it started with a problem. Johann, what was the problem you were trying to solve at Shell? >> Yeah, let's go back a couple of the years. We started summer 2017, where we had a meeting with the guys from exploration in Shell. And the main problem they had of course they got lots and lots of data, but aren't unable to find the right data they need to work from. Well the data was scattered and is scattered, it was scattered it's all over the place. And so the real problem trying to solve is how that person working in exploration could find their proper data, not just the data also the data really needed. That's what we probably talked about in summer 2017. And we said, "Okay, the only way we see this moving forward is to start pulling that data into a single data platform." And that was at the time that we called it OSDU, the Open Subsurface Data Universe, and that was what the Shell name was. So, in January 2018, we start a project with Amazon to start creating and confronting the building that OSDU environment, that subservient the universe. So that single data platform to put all your exploration and wealth data into a single environment that was the intent. And then we said, already in March of that same year, we said, 'Well, from a Shell point of view, we would be far better off if we could make this an industry solution and not just a Shell solution." Because Shell will be, if you can make this an industry solution, but people start developing applications for it also, it's far better than for Shell to say, we have it Shell special solution. Because we don't make money out of how we store the data we can make money out of we have access to the data, we can exploit the data. So storing the data, we should do as efficiently possibly can. So in March we reached out to about eight or nine other large oil and gas operators, like the ECONOS, like the Totals, like the Chevrons of this world they said, "Hey, we in Shell are doing this, do you want to join this effort?" And to our surprise, they all said yes. And then in September 2018 we had our kick-off meeting with the open group, where we said, "Okay, if you want to work together with lots of other companies, we also need to look a bit at how we organize that." Because if you start working with lots of large companies you need to have some legal framework around it. So that's why, we went to the open group and said," Okay, let's form the OSDU forum." As we call it at the time. So in September, 2018 where I had a Galleria in Houston we had a kick off meeting for the OSDU forum with about 10 members at the time. So there's, just over two years ago, we started to exercise formally we called it OSDU, we kicked it off. And so that's really where we coming from and how we got there also. >> The origin story. >> Yes. >> What, so what, digging a little deeper there, what were some of the things you were trying to achieve with the OSDU? >> Well, a couple of things we've tried to achieve with OSDU. First is really separating data from applications. But what is the biggest problem we have in the subsurface space that the data and applications are all interlinked. They are all tied together and if you have then a new company coming along and say, "I have this new application, and needs access to the data." That is not possible because the data often interlinked with the application. The first thing we did is, really breaking the link between the application and the data. So that was the first thing we did. Secondly, put all the data to a single data platform, take the silos out because what was happening in the subsurface space I mean, they got all the data in what we call silos, in small little islands out there. So we try to do is, first, break the link. Two, create, put the data in a single data platform. And then third part, put a standard layer on top of that the same API layer on top of the created platform so we could create an ecosystem out of companies to start developing software applications on top of that data platform. Because you might have a data platform, but you aren't successful if you have a rich ecosystem of people start developing applications on top of that. And then you can exploit the data like small companies, large companies, universities, you name it. But you have to create an ecosystem out of there. So the three things was, first break the link between the application data, just break it and put data at the center. And also make sure that data, this data structure would not be managed by one company. But it would be managed the data structures, by the OSDU forum. Secondly then, put the data, single data platform. Thirdly then, have an API layer on top and then create an ecosystem, really go for people, say, "Please start developing applications." Because now you have access to the data, because the data is no longer linked to somebody's application was all freely available for an API layer. That was all September, 2018, more or less. >> Liz I want to bring you, in here a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Can you talk a little bit some of the imperatives from the AWS standpoint in terms of what you were trying to achieve with this? >> Yeah, absolutely. And this whole thing is Johan said, started with a challenge that was really brought out at Shell. The challenges that geoscientists spend up to 70% of their time looking for data. I'm a geologist I've spent more than 70% of my time trying to find data in these silos. And from there, instead of just figuring out, how we could address that one problem, we worked together to really understand the root cause of these challenges. And working backwards from that use case, OSDU and OSDU on AWS has really enabled customers to create solutions that span not just this in particular problem. But can really scale to be inclusive of the entire energy value chain and deliver value from these used cases to the energy industry and beyond. >> Thank you. Johan, so talk a little bit about Accenture's Cloud First approach and how it has helped Shell work faster and better with speed. >> Well, of course Accenture Cloud First approach, really works together with Amazon environment, AWS environment. So we really look at Accenture and Amazon together, helping Shell in this space. Now the combination of the two is what we're really looking at where access of course can bring business knowledge to that environment, operate support knowledge to an environment and of course Amazon will be bring that to this environment, that underpinning services, et cetera. So we would expect of that combination, a lot of goods when we started rolling out in production, the other two or three environment. And probably our aim is, when a release fee comes to the market, in Q1 next year of OSDU have already started going out in production inside Shell. But as the first OSDU release which is ready for prime time production across an enterprise. Well we have released our one just before Christmas, last year, released two in May of this year. But release three is the first release we want to use for full scale production and deployment inside Shell and also all the operators around the world. And there is what Amazon, sorry and there when Accenture can play a role in the ongoing, in the deployment building up, but also support environment. >> So one of the other things that we talk a lot about here on theCUBE is sustainability and this is a big imperative at so many organizations around the world in particular energy companies. How does this move to OSDU, help organizations become how is this a greener solution for companies? >> Well, first we make, it's a great solution because you start making a much more efficient use of your resources, which is a really important one. The second thing we're doing is also we started with OSDU in very much in the oil and gas space, within the export development space. We've grown OSDU but in our strategy, we've grown OSDU now also to an alternative energy source. So obviously we'll all start supporting next year things like solar farms, wind farms, the geothermal environment, hydrogen. So it becomes an open energy data platform not just for the oil and gas industry, but for any type of industry, any type of energy industry. So our focus is to create, bring the data of all those various energy data sources together into a single data platform. You're going to use AI and other technology on top of that, to exploit the data to be together into a single data platform. >> Liz, I want to ask you about security, because security is such a big concern when it comes to data. How secure is the data on OSDU? >> Actually, can I talk, can I do a follow-up on the sustainability talking? >> Absolutely by all means. >> I mean, I want to interject, though security is absolutely our top priority I don't mean to move away from that but with sustainability, in addition to the benefits of the OSDU data platform. When a company moves from on-prem to the cloud they're also able to leverage the benefits of scale. Now, AWS is committed to running our business in the most environmentally friendly way possible. And our scale allows us to achieve higher resource utilization and energy efficiency than a typical on-prem data center. Now, a recent study by 451 research found that, AWS's infrastructure, is 3.6 times more energy efficient than the median of surveyed enterprise data centers. Two thirds of that advantage is due to a higher server utilization and a more energy efficient server population. But when you factor in the carbon intensity of consumed electricity and renewable energy purchases 451 found that, AWS performs the same task with an 88% lower carbon footprint. Now that's just another way that AWS and OSDU are working to support our customers as they seek to better understand their workflows and make their legacy businesses less carbon intensive. >> That's, those statistics are incredible. Do you want to talk a little bit now about security? >> Absolutely yeah. Security will always be AWS's top priority. In fact, AWS has been architected to be the most flexible and secure cloud computing environment available today. Our core infrastructure is built to satisfy the security requirements for the military, global banks and other high sensitivity organizations. And in fact, AWS uses the same secure hardware and software to build and operate each of our regions. So that customers benefit from the only commercial cloud that's had hit service offerings and associated supply chain vetted and deemed secure enough for top secret workloads. That's backed by a deep set of cloud security tools with more than 200 security compliance and governmental service and key features. As well as an ecosystem of partners like Accenture, that can really help our customers to make sure that their environments for their data meet and or exceed their security requirements. >> Johann, I want you to talk a little bit about how OSDU you can be used today. Does it only handle subsurface data? >> Today is 100 subsets of wells data we go to add that to that production around the middle of next year. That means that the whole upstream business we got included every piece goes from exploration all the way to production, you bring it together into a single data platform. So production will be added around Q3 of next year. Then in principle, we have a typical elder data, a single environment and we're going to extend them to other data sources or energy sources like solar farms, wind farms, hydrogen, hydro, et cetera. So we're going to add a whole list of other day energy source to that and bring all the data together into a single data platform. So we move from an oil and gas data platform to an energy data platform. That's really what our objective is because the whole industry if you look at our companies all moving in that same direction of course are very strong in oil and gas but also increasingly go into other energy sources like solar, like wind, like hydrogen et cetera. So we move exactly with the same method, that the whole OSDU, can really support that whole energy spectrum of energy sources, of course. >> And Liz and Johan, I want you to close us out here by just giving us a look into your crystal balls and talking about the five and 10 year plan for OSDU. We'll start with you, Liz. What do you see as the future holding for this platform? >> Honestly, the incredibly cool thing about working at AWS is you never know where the innovation and the journey is going to take you. I personally am looking forward to work with our customers wherever their OSDU journeys, take them whether it's enabling new energy solutions or continuing to expand, to support use cases throughout the energy value chain and beyond but really looking forward to continuing to partner as we innovate to slay tomorrow's challenges. >> Johan. >> Yeah, first nobody can look that far ahead anymore nowadays, especially 10 years. I mean, who knows what happens in 10 years? But if you look what our objective is that really in the next five years, OSDU will become the key backbone for energy companies for storing your data, new artificial intelligence and optimize the whole supply, the energy supply chain in this world out here. >> Johan Krebbers, Liz Dennett thank you so much for coming on theCUBE virtual. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of our coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit. (tranquil music).