>>Hey, everyone, welcome back to the cubes on the ground. Coverage of Pedro Duty Summit 22. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm very excited to be joined by Manjula Toleration, the S VP and chief customer officer at page duty. Welcome to the programme. >>Thank you, Lisa. It's great to have chatted with you this morning as well, >>isn't it? I have had the great fortune of watching her fireside chat. That Mandela did, um, with is the logic monitor that was >>she of logic. >>And I thought, She's got great energy. We're gonna have a great conversation. So let's talk about the customer experience these days. One of the things I think that's been very, very short supply in the pandemic is patience. I know it's been in short supply with me and, of course, in our consumer lives in our business lives. The customer experience, though, has been something that every company needs to really pin their businesses on. Because if it's not a good customer experience, that customer goes right to social media. They churn. They leave, but they take others down with them. Talk to me about how the customer experience fits into this year's summit. Especially for this, we have to be ready for everything in a digital world environment. >>I love this question, and I reason I love this question is I even look at my own behaviour. But before we get into that, let's talk about data. I'm just reading an article. Mackenzie did a survey. Did you know that from pre covid to today customer interactions that have moved to digital are from 41% to 65%? That's exponential. That's huge. And guess what? We've all got impatient. You become like our kids, and I think about myself as an individual. If I need tied right now to do my laundry, I need it right now. So if I go to Costco website to order it so that it can get delivered in the next hour, and even if there's a second glitch on it, I'll swap over to Amazon and I'll swap over to target. That's what's happening in real world, whether it be to see or it's b to B, and why is it important to the points we are making in terms of ready for anything in the world of digital everything. It's important because customers are impatient. It's a digital world. I don't walk into the store to do any interactions anymore. And the reality of all of this is it's grounded on trust. Customers have to trust you and the window of choice not only in the B two b, but a lot in the enterprise and the B to B world. It's about trust, right? And what does pager duty do? Pager duty is at the heart of this pager. Duty is at the heart of making every second matter, and every second is equal to money. Absolutely. And it's about customer experience. And it isn't about just the experience where of an employee who may not sleep at night because they got a disruption due to an incident which is also super important during the mass resignation. But it is also about the CEO agenda and the boardroom, because how our CEO s driving customer trust in order to keep customers and drive this new era of digital everything as digital transformation is occurring. Well, >>I know patriarchy was doing that. I had the chance to watch um, CEO Jennifer to, uh, fireside chat, her keynote, and then her fireside chat with the CEO of Doc, You Sign And you. The Storey was very bidirectional, very symbiotic in terms of the trust that he has in Houston and Austin has and Pedro duty. But talk to me as the chief customer officer. What is it that's unique about how patriarchy works with its customers? 21,000 plus now to build and maintain that trust, especially in such volatile times? >>You know what is really cool? I joined page duty a little less than two years ago. In the next few days, it'll be two years now. What do I find exciting as a chief customer officer and the go to market teams differentiation versus other customers? We had a born SAS company and what do we have access to form our customers? We have access to their operations data and that combination of our core values that is championing the customer and the data science that we have about how customers are using our data is a differentiation. That's the magic. So if you think about why pager duty is bringing this level of trust to the customers, it's because we know how many and let's take an example. Employee retention, mass resignation. We know which employee was called. How many times at night during an outage. Can we give that guidance to managers and leaders in order to drive that trust? Absolutely. And on the other hand, we are driving amazing return on investment at the executive levels for the customer experience that they are driving. So Peter Duty is becoming the trusted advisor all the way from practitioners, where we are improving their work life balance to the executive levels, >>improving work. Life balance is so critical. There was a stat that Sean Scott shared this morning that that was looking at the amount of work volume from 2020 compared to 2021 42% of people said, I am working more hours. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, Can I work more? Please? No. That work life balance is critical, but also the ability to deliver that seamless digital customer experience that we all expect, Um, and and to get it right the first time is critical. But using that customer data as you're saying, empowering the organisations, not just the customer support folks or the SRS or the develops folks but all the way up to the C suite to ensure that their brand reputation is valuable, it's maintained, and that trust is really bidirectional. That's the secret sauce. >>You're absolutely right. You know, there's a different dimension to this as well. We think about how we're using customer data in order to achieve the results. We want three vectors here. Number one is we'll use customer data to really understand what is best in class on up time. What is the best in class to reduce noise during alert, what is best in best in class for customer service operations? And because we have customer data, we can benchmark we can benchmark. What industry? What's happening in the financial services industry? What's happening in the technology industry? What's happening in the retail industry. Our customers love that, so we will share with them. The customer success organisation, especially the customer success managers, will go in and meet with the customers and say This is where you stand in reference to your peers and customers love here about that. This is the differentiated value proposition, right? The second thing that our customer success managers do is share with the customers This is where you are in reference to your peers in your vertical other vertical. But let me tell you how you can improve your deployment, the performance of our technology and you're all operating model. As a result of the data we've got, >>there's the proactive nous. That's another differentiator of of what I was hearing today from pager duty. That you're enabling those CSM is to be proactive when so often many are reactive, and it's the customer that's found the problem first. >>Yes, I'll even talk more about the reactive to proactive. We build a methodology, and I'm sure Shaun Scott covered it as well, which is a maturity curve moving from reactive to proactive because so many of our customers are saying we are reacting when we have a disruption on our digital platform, but 30% of the times we are hearing from customers before we are hearing from ourselves. So how do we become proactive? And how does that data signs actually start showing the signs when a potential disruption could occur? And that is about moving reactive to overall proactive. I'd also like to add one more dimension to this, you know, when customers are doing really well. They're optimised on our platform. They don't want to hear from our post sales organisation all the time. They want a human touch when they need it. They want a digital touch when they need it. By using our data and our data science, we are becoming one of the best world class customer success organisations in the world and you ask why? The reason is because we are using data science in order to build and we have built the early warning system. The early warning system tells us how every single of our customers is doing in terms of both their growth as well as the risk that they may leave us. So if a customer is very healthy on a scale of 1 200 if we have a healthy customer, we will engage with them potentially just digitally and engage with them with our services are customer success team and our entire post sales organisation, when there is an optimisation and when they really need us. So data scientists being used not only in terms of giving customer the right information to grow them, but how we interact with them as well, >>that's brilliant. And there's so many organisations that I talked to across industries that cannot get that right. >>And >>so customers are being contacted too frequently. They may have said. I opted out, I don't want and then suddenly that that the first responders, the incident responders, is marketing. But that happens so frequently, you think. But there's an opportunity there. It's not rocket science, but it's about leveraging that data in an optimal, smart way. But you guys are light years ahead of a lot of other companies that haven't figured that >>out. No, we are leading edge and we are leading edge because we had a born SAS company and we've got effective operations data of the customer, and we have some of the best data scientists and the analysts within my organisation. Looking at this, engaging with the customer and only optimising the magic is data science and humans coming together to engage with customers and drive customer success for the customer and ultimately building their customer experience for their customers. >>Let's talk about some of the numbers Mandela, because they are really impressive. I was looking at some stats. You're paid your duties renewal rates are over 95%. Your growth is incredible, just coming off the biggest quarter ever, but also the gross annual benefit from customers. Talk to me about that alone. That can be up to $10 million. These read these tangible business outcomes that pager duty is delivering to customers are significant, >>and again, it's based on data science. This is not making you know what traditional companies do. Traditional companies will go to the customer and say, Tell me your business imperatives. Tell me your what are the business problems you're solving are because we have the data science. We have our oi arranging from 309 100% very impressive within a couple of months. We think about it if we are able to drive incidents that are very, very significant. And I know you've got the numbers in terms of growing our reducing the workload on very expensive engineering. Uh, individuals within the organisation from, I believe, 3200 and 25,000, and I know you have those numbers think about If 30% of your organisation focuses just on innovation and product development, worse is on an incident, and they work, life balance, the quality of life increases, the retention of the employees, and yet the company's only driving their growth. That is why our customers love us. That is why our renewal rates are greater than 95%. That's why a net retention scores are greater than 100 and 2020% over five quarters. And that is why we have more than 30% growth year over year, quarter over quarter. >>When I saw that stat Manville about you know, the number of incidents reduced, >>that >>translates to employee productivity and and looking at it in terms of FTE. From a quantity perspective, that's the first time I've seen a company and I interview a lot of companies actually put it in that perspective, and I thought, That is huge. That's how organisations should be talking about that rather than reducing feeds are going. We are victims of the great resignation is look at the impact that can be made here by using data science by using the right mix of human and automation together. It's that's the first time. So congratulations to you and Pedro duty for the first time I've seen that and I think everybody needs to be working to be able to explain it that way, especially the fact that we're still in a volatile environment. >>Absolutely. It's about customer experience, but it is just as much employee experience. There is so much that the industry is talking about. That's top of mind for board levels. That's top of mind from CEO S. How do I retain my employees and drive greater operational efficiency? And now, with the macro economic challenges that are occurring in terms of inflation and in and the cost to serve and increasing the profits are customers are making. Operational efficiency is becoming even more important so that the employees are focusing more on innovation rather than downtime or disruptions. And it's actually about growing the business rather than just running the business. And if we can optimise running the business growth is what our customers are looking >>for, right? I always think, and we're almost out of time here. But I always think the employee experience and the customer experience are like this, and they should be. But it's critical to optimise both. How do you when you talk to some of those big and our price customers. We have Doc Watson on the main stage this morning, but I was looking at the website and three that jumped out to me that I use peloton, salesforce and slack. How do you advise them? You have this wealthiest gold of information on customers. This is how you need to leverage it in the right way to grow your business. What are some of the top three things you recommend those customers do, for example, >>that so let me talk about a couple of customers as an example. There are some customers of ours in the retail business, or it is a telecommunication company that is trying to increase their, um, up time from 98.7% to 3 nines as an example, or a tech company that doesn't even know that they were down for six hours in one small part of their business. And we're trying to figure out how do we solve for that as customers are overall complaining. So for us as a organisation, the magic is again bringing data together employee engagement, and what we do is we use the data to engage with their customers to ultimately understand what is their business value proposition. If you don't do it in isolation, you do it in. What is the customer trying to achieve? Are they trying to achieve the best in class website? Are they trying to achieve increased operational efficiency? What are their metrics? What are their numbers? And we take our data, our people, to marry all of that together. And that's the magic. >>I love it. I wish we had more time. Angela. We are out of time but talking about the value of the customer experience, the impact that is possible to be made leveraging technologies like pager duty. It's It's revolutionising operations. It's revolutionising customers 21,000 plus one million plus users at a time. It's awesome. You have to come back so we can talk more because I can. No, we're just scratching the surface here. >>Yes, we are. This is a very, very exciting area right now, and it is a great opportunities for chief customer officers on really rallying the whole company on championing the customers because whether it's a product, our capabilities, it's really a major transformation happening in the in the industry, and we need to stay very close to it? >>Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. I look forward to seeing you again. >>Real pleasure, Lisa, To get to know you. And the gun was she was awesome. >>Good. Thank you for Manjula. Televisa. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes on the ground. Coverage of pager duty. Summit 22 from San Francisco. Thanks for watching. And bye for now. Mm mm. Mm mm.

>> Illustrator: From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of PagerDuty summit 2020. Brought to you by pagerduty. >> Welcome to the cubes coverage of PagerDuty Summit 2020, the virtual edition. I'm Lisa Martin, and I'm pleased to welcome the Senior Vice President of Product for PagerDuty. Jonathan Rendy. Jonathan, welcome back to the cube. Thank you, Lisa. It's great to be here. So this is our virtual cube, virtual summit 2020. But one of the things that I know from talking with Jennifer yesterday 6is that this is the opportunity to reach way more people because there's, you know, no travel restrictions and budget and things like that. But one of the things that is quite impressive is that you're going to be in your keynote talking about a lot of changes and enhancements to the products the biggest release in pagerduty's History During COVID-19 really impressive. Talk to us about why this is such an exciting time. >> Well, it's it's exciting for a lot of reasons. And great to be here, although I'm getting so tired of working from home these days. But be that as it may, yeah, we we do have the biggest set of releases and investments and innovation that we're unleashing in the history of the company, which in these times is is no small feat. I want to thank all the teams have done a wonderful job. But we're using our summit event, as you know, to to talk about that to bring that out to discuss and we have some very high profile speakers coming. Joining us at the event. We have Andy Jassy, we have Eric Diwan, Stewart Butterfield and more. So it'll be a fantastic event, for executives and for practitioners alike. So sharing what we're doing new with all of this, these leaders joining us is going to be a great thing. >> One of the things that's become so critical in the last six months is digital services. And I think so many of us don't realize or don't think about the folks under, I don't want to say under the hood, but behind the scenes really, that are critical for you mentioned, the CEOs of AWS and zoom, and Slack, which are all essential. I mean, zoom is a household name, right? My mom even uses zoom, she's 75 that's pretty cool. But all of the criticality under the hood to ensure that these services continue because we're all now even more dependent on them than we ever have been before. >> Yeah, it's really interesting, I was thinking about this the other day, there were so many casual services that we all relied on, you know, pre March pre February, that now have become just mission critical and, and to everything that we do professionally and personally. And to your point, whether you're working out at home with, you know, your peloton, or whether you're in the two dimensional world with zoom all the time, we just expect all these services to be up and running and be available for us. And behind all those services that we expect to be there is a an amazing amount of complexity and dependencies. And behind all those complexity and dependencies our people and and that's a big part of what PagerDuty focuses on which is engaging people on the right issues at the right time. And of course, allowing them not just to be engaged but complete the work work, major issues, unexpected work, unplanned work, and complete all that in when moments and seconds and microseconds matters. So Pedro duty has a unique place in that whole ecosystem of what's considered crucial and critical now. >> We'll we've been hearing the term essential workers for since March right and thinking of them in a traditional sense of doctors and nurses and firemen and obviously grocery workers and, and deliver companies. But looking at it from pages through your lens, it's this the whole like digital frontline, the DevOps folks, the IT folks, the customer support folks who are really on the front lines of helping that brand be protected. Now it's, you know, the fact that everything is real time that now is now more important than ever is never been more important. So talk to us about sort of this switch to this digital default and what that means for operations. >> Yeah, as we were just saying, to your point, it's never been the services have never been more important and more essential to everything that we do. So it just makes perfect sense that all of the individuals who are responsible for building and delivering and supporting those services are essential. Now also and as a part of that we talk a lot about going from what everybody knows as DevOps to digital ops. And while it may sound like a marketing phrase, words matter, and it really means going from being responsive to being proactive and predictive. And that's so important for these individuals. To get ahead of this, we've seen super interesting data, when we look at our platform where there 13,000 customers of how life has changed for all of those customers and those half a million users of our platform today, pre COVID. And now that we're in the middle of this with, again, reflecting how important services are the increased use of those, and then the rise in issues. And what's the great news is that individuals and companies using the platform are actually getting better at addressing them than they were pre COVID. So with the bad news, there's, there's good news, too. >> I agree, there are always silver linings, I was looking at my notes here. And one of the things when PagerDuty evaluated your platform, and as we mentioned over 13,000 customers, during COVID, seeing an increase in traffic and demand for digital services, more than a 38% increase in incidence compared to the prior period. But you also talked about how the big impact that pager duty is helping your customers make and resolving those incidents faster. And I guess maybe sorting through the noise, and a better more automated way. >> Exactly. And a lot of it has to do with what we've been doing. And then another piece is our new releases. And so again, we've looked at our data to your point. And we've seen this over a third rise, in the number of issues, that organizations are running into across the board. And with our new releases, we're able to reduce interruptions by over 65%. So it's great news that again, with with the rising use and the rise in interruptions and people having to context switch from what they're doing to you know, firefight and jump in the middle one and collaborate across organizations that there's light on the horizon, the light at the end of the tunnel, I should say, and then things are going to get better. And our new releases are going to help in a big way. >> Okay, I'm assuming you have a crystal ball, which is great. So I'm going to be looking for some more predictions, but talking to your customers. And you know, I can imagine now there's more noise. You mentioned this switch from DevOps to digital ops and this now this digital default that I know, Jennifer has talked about, and it's this probably going to be one of the things that that shapes the winners and the losers of tomorrow in every industry. But tell me a little bit about how you're helping how you're using, you know, the traditional buzzwords, AI, machine learning, and putting them really effectively to work so that it's now not just a buzzword that companies in any industry should be thinking about, but it's actually machine learning is going to be critical to sorting through this increased volume of data and helping resolve incidents faster to not just, you know, prevent customer churn, but also to make sure that your folks on the digital front lines aren't burned out. >> Well, with the transition that we were talking about before, you know, everybody realizes that they have to be all in now, there's no, we're migrating to the cloud. And there's reasons for that, moving from on prem systems to to the public cloud, in many ways, we've seen that massively accelerate. And with that comes and how the systems are, have to be built and managed and delivered there, you see this increasing complexity. And going back to what we were talking before, individuals are behind all of that complexity. And so it's so important that in our new releases, we really up the bar, we've really raised the game, so to speak on what we're doing to take advantage of our data that we capture. And also this increase in information that's coming in, we refer to it a lot of times as telemetry when you, you know, start to refactor and rebuild your systems in the public cloud, and you have all those dependencies and you have more information, more data flowing to you, which can translate to more interruptions. And very easy, It's very easy for organizations and teams to get overwhelmed by that. And so our new releases, focus on making sense of that we talked about the reduction in interruptions and the reduction in noise. But we've also focused equally, on helping folks with context with information when something goes south, when something is different than what a team expected. How do you fix that once you engage the right people, they're so big part of our releases also been about applying machine learning to add context to speed up fixing and resolving and finding the root cause of these issues in a big way. And we do that through a number of different ways in our in our products, in our PagerDuty platform, event intelligence, and also our analytics, again, to draw these relationships around service dependencies and our analytics, we've included a recommendation engine. So now we can show organizations and teams predict. If you make these changes, you will see these improvements. And this will be your returns and using our data combined with the data that's coming in, That's a big part of what the PagerDuty platform is all about. >> well that analytics piece is, critical as as the machine learning because the volumes of data are getting bigger and bigger and bigger such that it can't be can't depend on just humans. There's something that I'm curious about, too, is with the rise in incidents, how can PagerDuty help customers kind of sort through the noise and maybe Park things that might be able to be resolved on their own without having to escalate? >> It's a great question. And we do it through a couple of ways. One, we've applied machine learning so many times when, when interruptions when issues alerts come in, and they can look different, but they're all related to the same thing. So we're applying machine learning to better group and intelligently organize and group all of those informations into the singular incidents that really matter that you really need to pull teams together on which is important. The next thing we're doing is we're using machine learning to say, Hmm, okay, it looks like these, these issues, these incidents are happening on different services that teams own. And what we're also using the machine learning to do now is to show the dependencies between those services. So we often see situations where you can have a couple of teams in your organization, working on issues that are delivered to them, not knowing that they're related. And in some ways they can be working against each other. So having information to know that one issue is upstream. And the other issue is downstream allows one team to step forward and the other team to step back. And we're using our machine learning for that, to give that additional context and help pinpoint where the issues are. So it's the most effective use of these teams when they come in, Nothing's more frustrating by the way than being interrupted, whether it's the middle of the day or the middle of the night, only to find out that either you're being unproductive or you didn't need to be there in the first place. >> Oh, absolutely, yes. And I'm seeing some stats that people are the folks on the digital front lines are working an average of 10 hours more a week. And so many more of those interruptions are happening and when you'd like to be off on the weekends and the middle of the night. But one of the things that that you took context, absolutely critical, but also collaboration, different teams that need to be to your point, are we working on the same thing, and we don't know, the collaboration now that work is distributed is even more critical than ever? What are some of the things that you're hearing from customers about what PagerDuty is doing to facilitate that collaboration so that things just run much more smoothly, and the demanding consumer on the other end is satisfied? >> Well, to your point, one of the most critical things, since we're talking about not just a technology issue, we're talking about a people issue is communication, and collaborating. And that is so important, not only in general, but in these moments that matter. And so one of the things we've done in the new platform is we're introducing industry firsts, video war rooms, with our partners and customers zoom, as well as Microsoft Teams. And so we're also updating our slack integrations as well. But as we live in this two dimensional world, those responders, those teams that have to come together to fix issues with the single click of a button, now they can participate in those issues, in a video sense, in a video war room, but not just engage in that way. We've also added the ability to manage the issue through zoom through Microsoft Teams as a part of PagerDuty. So individual don't need to context switch from one product to another, they can do everything they need to do from from that world. So a big part of that collaboration and communication is all about the in the moment, you know, teams working together in those forums. But there's another side of communication collaboration in these major events. That's critical as well. And that has to do with what I always think of as the ripple effect. There's there are the teams working the issues. And then there are all the teams adjacent to that, whether they're business stakeholders, whether they're customer service teams, that also need to take action. They may not be fixing the issue, but they have to engage and they have worked to do they have actions they need to take equally, that are different. And so for those other organizations, it's we've increased the scalability of our stakeholder notification into the 10s of thousands. So those folks can keep in touch in tight alignment to what's happening to an issue being fixed, which, again, in today's world, this effect, affects everyone in an organization, not just the teams tasked with addressing the problems. >> Right. And of course, the demanding consumer on the other end isn't considering the fact that the customer support person that they're talking to might not have access to everything they need. And it's critical. It's business critical for any type of organization to understand that, even their customer support folks, and I shouldn't say even those guys and girls are on the digital front lines. And brand reputation hangs on the data that they have the context that they have, and their ability to resolve a customer issue because we were more demanding as consumers before COVID. And now I think even more than other because we're dependent on it. We're dependent on zoom, or dependent on Slack, we're dependent on Amazon and AWS, and so many other digital services. And we don't get what we want as consumers, right, we're going to go I'm going to go find someone else who's going to be able to respond to this in in one second, because I'm only going to give it a half a second. So last question, Jonathan for you so much announced this PagerDuty Summit 2020, unique in that way unique in the virtual asset. But what are some of the things that you see on the horizon, say, the next six months, because I'm pretty sure you have a crystal ball, let's open that up. >> Well, I see a couple of things. And while I never said that I'm Nostradamus, I see a couple of things. And one is that there is a material, seismic shift towards full service ownership. and so teams, and this was happening before as a part of DevOps. But when I was talking previously about moving to digital Ops, we're seeing large organizations have major initiatives around this notion of the frontline teams have to be empowered to work directly on these issues. And we always call that this phrase, full service ownership, which means you build it, you ship it, you own it. And that's both for development and IT organizations. And I think you brought up a really interesting point before, in this trend that I see happening and only accelerating, it's happening because people want to innovate faster. And those individuals, those teams, whether you're, again, in Dev, it Ops, or even in customer service, it's important that you're empowered to do this to help in that innovation. So I see that as the first seismic shift. And actually, as a part of that. The other big part of our announcements is where we're at summit, announcing PagerDuty for customer service. It's a curated product, just for customer service teams, because they're part of that big triangle with Dev and IT teams that they need to be in the loop, they need to be empowered with the same types of tools, they need to be able to act as a, essentially an incident commander, they have cases that come in, and they need to be able to engage the right individuals to provide that customer service to what you were saying before. And they need to have a direct link to everything that's happening in Dev and it so they can be proactive and get ahead of customer cases also. So again, to your question of, like, what do I see? I think that shift is brought on by people being all in, you know, with with their, their cloud migrations and refactoring. And then full service ownership being something that empowering individuals on the front lines, democratizing, you know, decision making and empowering those teams. I see that as the biggest shift happening overall. >> Excellent, Jonathan, thanks for sharing what you are unpacking at summit 20 and the opportunities that had a lot of silver linings. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Lisa. It's been a pleasure being here. >> For Jonathan Randy. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCube, with digital coverage, of Actifio data-driven 2020, brought to you by Actifio. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCube coverage of Actifio Data-driven 2020. Really excited to, dig into a fun topic. I have a Cube alumni with us he is a DevOps author, and researcher Gene Kim. Unicorn Project is the most recent, Gene, great to see you, thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, great to see you again, here at the Actifio conference, this is all fantastic. >> Yeah, so your new book, it was much awaited out there, you know, Unicorn's always discussed out there, but you know, the Phoenix Project, as I said, is really this seminal, book when people say, What is that DevOps thing and how do I do it? So, why don't you give us a little bit as to The Unicorn Project, why is it important? Why we're excited to dig into this and, we'll, we'll tie it into the discussion we're having here for the next normal, at Actifio. >> For sure, yeah, in fact, yeah. As you might have heard in the keynote address, you know, the what, what vexed me, after the Phoenix project came out in 2013 is that there is still looming problems that still remain, seven years after the Phoenix project was written. And, you know, these problems I think are very important, around you and what does it really take to enable developers to truly be productive, instead of being locked in a tundra of technical debt. Two is, you know, how do we unlock truly the power of data so that we can help everyone make better decisions, whether it's a developer, or anyone, within the business units and the organizations that we serve. And then three is like, what are really the behaviors that we need from leadership to make these amazing transformations possible? And so The Unicorn Project really is, the fifth project retold, but instead of through the eyes of Ops leadership, is told through the eyes, of a phenomenal developer. And so it was amazing to revisit the, the Phoenix project universe, I in the same timeline, but told from a different point of view. And it was such a fun project to work on, just because, you know, to relive the story, and just expose all these other problems, not happening, not on the side, but from, the development and data side. >> Yeah. They've always these characters in there that, I know I personally, and many people I talked to can, you know, really associate with, there was a return of certain characters, quite prominent, like Brent, you know, don't be the bottleneck in your system. It's great, if you're a fighter firefighter, and can solve everything, but if everything has to come through you, you know, Pedro is always going off, he's getting no sleep and, you know, you'd just get stressed out. You talked a bit more, about the organization and there are the five ideals in the book. So maybe if you can, you know, strongly recommend, of course, anybody at ending active you, got a copy of the books they'll be able to read the whole thing, but, you know, give us the bumper sticker on some of those key learnings. >> Yeah, for sure, yeah. So the five ideals represents five ideas, I think are just very important, for everyone, the organization, serves, especially leadership. The first ideal is locality and simplicity. In other words, when you need to get something done, we should be able to get it done within our team, without having to do a lot of communication coordination, with people outside of our team. The worst, the most horrible feeling is that in order, to do a small little thing, you actually have, to have a, coordinated action that spans 15 teams, right. And that's why you can't get anything done, right? And so that's so much the hallmark of large complex organizations. The second ideal is that what I think the outcomes are, which is focused flow and joy, you know, I've not just now started to for the first time in 20 years, self identify, not as an ops person, but as a developer. And, I really now understand, why we got into technology in the first place. This so that we can solve the business problem at hand unencumbered by minute share. And that allows for a sense of focus flow and even joy. And I love how Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, describe it. He said, flow is a state that we feel when we love our work, so much that we lose track of time, and maybe even sense of self. And so I think we all in technology understand, you know, that that is how it is on the best of days and how terrible it is, you know, when we don't have that sense of flow. Third ideal is improvement of daily work, being even more important than daily work itself. The notion is greatness is never free, we must create it and must prioritize it, for the psychological safety. And the fifth is customer focus. So those are all the things I think are so important, for modern leaders, because it really defines the future of work. >> Yeah, we love that flow and it happens otherwise we're stuck, in that waiting place as you quoted Dr. Csi. So one of my favorite books there, there also. So Gene, for this audience here, there was, you know, yes, CICD is wonderful and I need to be able to move and ship fast, but the real transformational power, for that organization was unlocking the value of data, which is, I think something that everybody here can. So maybe to talk a little bit about that you know, we, there there's, we've almost talked too much, you know, data is the new oil and things like that, but it's that, you know, that allowing everybody to tap in and leverage, you know, real time what's happening there were just at the early parts of the industry being able to unlock that future. >> Oh yeah, I love that phrase. Data is new oil, especially since oil, you know, the last 50 years, the standard Port 500 was dominated by, you know, resource extraction oil company and so forth. And now that is no longer true, it's dominated by the tech giants. And, Columbia there was a Columbia journalism review article that said, data's not only the new oil, is really the new soil. And for me, you know, my area of passion for the last seven years has been studying the DevOps enterprise community where, we're taking all the learnings that were really pioneered by the tech giants, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google, Microsoft, and seeing how they're being adopted by the largest, most complex organizations on the planet, the best known brands across every industry vertical. And it's so true that, you know, where the real learning gets exploited right, is through data. I realized, this is how we get to know our customers better. This is how we understand their wants and needs. This is how we test, and make offers to them to see if they like it or not to see if they value it or not. And, and so for me, one of the best examples, of this was, the target transformation and Adidas how it was just an amazing example of, to what links they went to, to liberate developers from, being shackled by ancient systems of records, data warehouses, and truly enabled developers to get access to the data they need modify it, even delete information, all without having to be dependent on, you know, integration teams that were essentially holding them hostage for six to nine months. And, these programs really enable some of the most strategic programs at their organizations, you know, enabling hundreds of projects over the years. So, I think that is really, just showing to what extent, the value that is created by unlocking data for individuals. And sorry Stu, one more thing that I'm just always dazzled by my friend, Chris Berg. He told me that, somewhere between a third and a half of all company employees use data in their daily work. They either use data or manipulate data as part of the daily work, which, you know, that, population is actually larger than the number of developers in an organization. So it just shows you how big this problem is, and how much value we can create by addressing this problem. >> Well, it's interesting if it's only a third, we still have work to do. What we've been saying for years is, you know, when you talk about digital transformation, the thing that separates those that have transformed and those that haven't is data needs to be at the core. I just can't be doing things the way I was or doing things off intuition, you know, being data-driven, I'm sure you know, the same Gene, if you're not, if you don't have data, you know, you're just some other person with an opinion. >> Yeah, yeah. That's it this is a great point. And in Risto Siilasmaa's amazing book, Transforming Nokia, I mean, he was, he said exactly that. And he said something that was even more astonishing. He said, there's not only at the core, but data also has to be at the edges. You know, he was describing at Amazon, anyone can do an experiment @booking.com. Anyone can do an experiment to see, if they can create value for the customer. They don't need approvals from, committees or their manager. This is something that is really truly part of everyone's daily work. And so, to me, that was a huge aha moment that says, you know, to what degree, you know. Our cultures need to change so that we can not only, use data, but also create learnings and create new data, you know, that the rest of the organization can learn from as well. >> Yeah. One of the other things I definitely, you know, felt in your book, you synthesize so much of the learnings that you've had over the years from like the DevOps enterprise summit. The question I have for you is, you know, you hear some of these, you know, great stories, but the question is, our companies, are they moving fast enough? Have they transformed the entire business or have they taken, you know, we've got one slice of the business that is kind of modernized and we're going to get to the other 30 pieces along the way, but you know, there's wholesale change, you know, 2020 has had such a big impact. What's your thoughts on, you know, how we are doing in the enterprise on pace of change these days? >> That's a great question. I mean, I think some people, when they ask me, you know, how far are we into kind of total adoption of DevOps? It's a newer better way of working. And I would say probably somewhere between 5 and 7%, right, and the math I would take them through is, you know, there are about 20 million developers on the planet of which at best, I think, a million of them are working in a DevOps type way. But yet now that's only growing. I think it was an amazing presentation at DevOps surprise summit in London that was virtual from nationwide building society, the largest organization of its kind. It's a large financially mutually owned organization for housing in the UK. And, they touched about how, you know, post COVID post lockdown suddenly they found themselves able to do them reckless things that would have normally taken four years, in four weeks. And I think that's what almost every organization is learning these days is, when survival is at stake, you know, we can throw the rules out of the window, right. And do things in a way that are safe and responsible, but, you know, create satisfy the business urgent needs, like, you know, provisioning tens of thousand people to work from home safely. You know, I think the shows, I think it's such a powerful proof point of what technology can do when it is unleashed from, you know, perhaps unnecessarily burdensome rules and process. And I think the other point I would make Stu is that, what has been so rewarding is the population of these technology leaders presenting at DevOps enterprise, they're all being promoted, they're all being, being given new responsibilities because they, are demonstrating that they have the best longterm interest of the organization at heart. And, they're being given even more responsibilities because, to make a bigger impact through the organization. So I'm incredibly optimistic about the direction we're heading and even the pace we're going at. >> Well, Gene definitely 2020 has put a real highlight on how fast things have changed, not just work from home, but, but the homeschooling, you know, telehealth, there are so many things out there where there was no choice, but to move forward. So the, the second presentation you participated in was talking about that next normal. So give us a little bit of, you know, what does that mean? You know, what, what we should be looking at going forward? >> Yeah, it was great to catch up with my friend Paul Forte, who I've known for many, many years, and now, now a VP of sales at the Actifio and yeah, I think it is amazing that academic Dr. Colada Perez, she said, you know, in every turning point, you know, where, there's such a the stage for decades of economic prosperity usually comes, by something exactly like what we're going through now, a huge economic recession or depression, following a period of intense re regulations there's new, technology that's unlocking, you know, new ways of working. And she pointed exactly to what's happening in the Covid pandemic in terms of, how much, the way we're working is being revolutionized, not by choice, but out of necessity. And, you know, as she said, you know, we're now learning to what degree we can actually do our daily work without getting on airplanes or, you know, meeting people in person. So, I'm a hue, I have so many friends in the travel industry, right. I think we all want normalcy to return, but I think we are learning, you know, potentially, you know, there are more efficient ways to do things, that don't require a day of travel for a couple hour meeting and day to return, right. So, yeah, I think this is being demonstrated. I think this will unlock a whole bunch of ways of interacting that will create efficiency. So I don't think we're going, as you suggested, right. There will be a new normal, but the new normal is not going to be the same as your old normal. And I think it will be, in general for the better. >> So, Gene, you, you've gone to gotten to see some of the transformation happening in the organizations when it comes to developers, you know, the, the DevOps enterprise summit, the, the state of DevOps, you know. I think five years ago, we knew how important developers were, but there was such a gap between, well, the developers are kind of in the corner, they don't pay for anything. They're not tied to the enterprise. And today it feels like we have a more cohesive story that there, there is that if you put in The Unicorn Project, it's, you know, business and IT, you know. IT, and the developers can actually drive that change and the survival of the business. So, you know, are we there yet success or net developers now have a seat at the table? Or, you know, what do you see on that, that we still need to do? >> Yeah, I think we're still, I mean, I think we're getting there, we're closer than ever. And as my friend, Chris O'Malley the CEO of the famously resurgent mainframe vendor Compuware said, you know, it is, everyone is aware that you can't do any major initiatives these days without some investment in technology, right? In fact, you can't invest in anything without technology. So I think that is now better understood than ever. And, yeah, just the digital, it's a whole digital disruption, I think is really, no one needs to be convinced that if we organize large complex organizations, don't change, they're at a risk of, you know, being decimated by the organizations that can change using an exploiting technology, you know, to their benefit and to the other person's detriment. So, and that primarily comes through software and who creates software developers. So I, by the way, I love the Stripe it was a CFO for Stripe who said, the largest, constraint for them is, and their peers is not access to capital, it is access development talent. I think when you have CFOs talking like that, right. It does says it's suggested something really has changed in the economic environment that we all compete in. >> So, I mentioned that on the research side, one of the things I've loved reading over the years is that, fundamental discussion that, going faster does not mean, that I am sacrificing security, or, you know, the product itself, you know, in the last couple of years, it's, you know, what separates those really high performing companies, and, you know, just kind of the middle of the ground. So, what, what, what advice would you give out there, to make sure that I'm moving my company more along to those high performing methods. >> Yeah, but just to resonate with that, I was interviewing a friend of mine, Mike Nygaard, long time friend of mine, and we were talking on and we were recalling the first time we both heard the famous 2009 presentation doing 10 deploys a day, every day at flicker, by John Allspaw and Paul Hammond. And we were both incredulous, right there? We thought it was irresponsible reckless, and maybe even immoral what they were doing, because, you know, I think most organizations were doing three a year, and that was very problematic. How could one do 10 deploys a day. And I think, what we now know, with the size of evidence, especially through the state of DevOps research, is that, you know, for six years, 35,000 plus respondents, the only way that you can be reliable, and secure, is to do smaller deployments more frequently, right? It makes you, be able to respond quicker in the marketplace, allows you to have better stability and reliability in the operational environment, allows you to be more secure. It allows you to be able to, you know, increase market share, increase productivity, and, you know, have happier employees. So, you know, at this point, I think the research is so decisive, that, you know, we can, as a whole book accelerate, that really makes the case for that, that this is something that I now have moral certainty or even absolute certainty oh, right. It's, you know, self evident to me, and it, I think we should have confidence that that really is true. >> Wonderful work, Gene, thanks so much for giving us the update. I really appreciate it, some really good sessions here in Actifio, as well as the book. Thanks so much, great to talk to you. >> Stu is always a pleasure to see you again, and thank you so much. >> Alright, that's our coverage from Actifio Data-driven, be sure to check out thecube.net for all of the, on demand content, as well as, as I said, if you were part of the show, definitely recommend reading Gene's book, The Unicorn Project. I'm Stu Miniman. And thank you for watching the cube. (soft upbeat music)

>>Live from Denver, Colorado. It's the cube covering comm vault. Go 2019 brought to you by. >>Hey, welcome back to the cube Lisa Martin with Steven and Amanda. We are covering combo go 19 in Colorado day two of our coverage and we're excited to welcome a successful comm vault customer to the cube. We have from the main stage this morning, Matthew mag meet data center, director of Sonic healthcare. Matthew, welcome. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. Oh good. We're excited to have you. So you got to, you are, you're, as your pen says, a combo customer champion. >>I am a customer champion a, I've kind of prided myself on that for the last few years. Uh, I like to get involved in the community and kind of help the other newcomers to come volt as well. As better my understanding and try to give the guys on the other end of the support line and break. >>So before we dig into Sonic and what you guys are doing and how you're working with combo, give our audience an overview of Sonic healthcare, what you guys do, where you're based, all that good background stuff. Okay. >>So I worked for a Sonic healthcare USA, so that's obviously in the United States. Uh, we are an anatomical and clinical pathology laboratory company. Um, we are based, uh, West coast central and East coast of the United States and we work with hospitals, doctor's office to provide, you know, quick and reliable laboratory results. >>So this is patient data. Yes. We think of, we think of data as I'm sure you do as well. It's the lifeblood. It's the new oil. It's all the things, right? That you hear the new bacon. It's the new bacon is that was like your quote? I saw that combo last year. >>Yeah, they had, they had teachers last year with that data. Yeah. Data is the new bacon. >>Well it's, it's critical, you know, regardless of if you're for Kim comparing it to bacon, I do like that. But it's also, there's the proliferation of it is hard to manage. Tell us a little bit about the it environment at Sonic. You guys have been using combo for about four years, but give us an overview of what you were working with before and how, what may be some of the compelling events were. >>So coming on board with Sonic, uh, the combo rollout was relatively new. We didn't, I didn't really come into a preexisting environment. It was like, okay, this is, this is what we're going to use. I need you to learn it and run with it, make sure that it works. Right. And um, you know, coming from other companies that had different software applications, I was always in charge of the disaster recovery. That's always been kind of like a, a beating heart for me. >>You're the Dr. Guy. It is apparently, >>it's really hard to find someone who's excited about backups. So I've put, it's like, yes, please take it. So I'm coming in and being able to mold this application to kind of how I wanted it was a little like touch and go at first because we had people out of our, um, overseas office that were, uh, handling already and is, they kind of set the stage of how they wanted it to go. But, you know, things change. We've got to kind of move things as we go, but I kind of owe a lot to them to kind of really introducing me to combo. >> So Matthew, one of the things that we've really enjoyed talking about at this show is everybody's ready. They're born ready, they know what they're doing, what it's preparing for when things do fail. So you talked a little bit on stage about some of those times when things fail and how today you're able to be here and you're, the other person in the D R group is here and you don't have to worry about walking away from the office and you know, having, you know, I guess not a Pedro anymore, but getting that call. >>Yeah, they need to be there. So my cell phone. But yeah, so bring us through some of those, you know, failure scenarios. We are always trying different things. You know, combo does offer a wide array of different solutions they have for plans and one of them is their active directory plan. And I'm leaning towards this cause this is my most recent failure is, you know, we were just, I've always had issues with active directory testing. The fail over and my first attempt at it was a failure. But I learned so much off the bat that I'm actually comfortable now that there might be a few tweaks that we have to do. By worst case scenario, we'd definitely be able to get it back online without any issue. But if we would've gone into it without testing, without that failure, who knows what could have happened. It could've been just a resume generating event, you know? >>Well, so you, you Stu alluded to it and what you mentioned in the keynote was, Hey, my other only other Dr. Guy is here in the audience. So I actually, I have >>team a data center team and we're all in charge. It's eight, eight people and we're, we're in charge of the disaster recovery. But, uh, the old gentleman who's with me is the only other one who's, uh, uh, done a lot of the combo training. He comes to Kai, he's been to all three combos, goes with me and uh, he's, he's probably the, if I'm not around, he's the next in line to take that. So if there's a major issue it would be one of us that they would contact by. We're both here >> and you're both here. Well that actually speaks volumes. It does. And we're comfortable and you know, we've been checking email for things but you know, everything's smooth sailing so far. >>I think I saw a quote from you, I think it was in a video where you said before it was like having a newborn. >>Absolutely, absolutely. I used to check like sign in. It's like 10 o'clock every single night for the first year that I worked for sign cause I was petrified cause you know, I knew that I was backing stuff up but I don't know, was it still running with it still being backed up? Did it pause? Was it causing performance issues on the other end? There were so many what ifs and I just, I was, I was a mess. I was a nervous wreck constantly, you know, working till one or two in the morning and then go to bed and then eagerly get up and start checking stuff even before I left the house, you know? And I'm like, Oh, okay, that's finished. But now it's like, yeah, I know I finished not worried about Matthew. I think back to early in my career it was the dreaded backup window is, you know, when am I going to be able to get that in there? >>Can I finish the backup in the window that I have? And we've mostly gotten beyond that. But you know, there's so many new now we were just talking with Sandy Hamilton who was on stage before you about some of that automation. Really great automation sounds good, but there's gotta be a little bit of fear. It's like shit, you know, talking about like texting, I said like we've all texted the wrong thing or the wrong person or you had the wrong person. So tell us your thoughts about how automation is impacting your world and how calm voltage. >> I actually have very little automation workflow running through comm vault right now. A lot of the stuff that we do automation wise lies on the VMware side. Um, so that's, that's been good. I haven't really implemented a lot just because I personally am not comfortable with it yet. >>I'm not against it. It's just something that I haven't really trained myself enough to say I'm going to leave and let this run by itself. I'm still like, Oh no, this could be better. This could be better. This can be better. So until I'm 100% comfortable with that, I think we'll just leave it at a semiautomated task of just, sorry, you said something down the road that you're absolutely even even sitting in keynote yesterday and listening about the Alexa automation and SMS tax, I like writing in a piece of paper to test that because it's something that I've always wanted and ever since combo go last year when they were using Alexa to check SLA and RPO and RTO, I'm like, I want to be able to do that. So that's definitely down the road, but it's on the back burner right now. >>So give us a landscape view distributed organization. You talked about your base in the U S but all of the different clinics and organizations that you work with, are you living in this multi-cloud world? >>So, uh, we are pretty much zero cloud initiative company. Yeah. I'm actually trying to work on a slogan, Oh no, cloud zero cloud and proud or something like that. But I'm not 100% sure. It's definitely not out of the question. But with FedRAMP co compliancy and HIPAA, there's just a lot of regulation between the data that we have for the U S that transmits back and forth, let's say Australia or Ireland or something like that. There's certain regulations that we have to deal with and uh, in the cloud there's, there's very few options of where you can actually have those servers. So it's right now, you know, on prem is kind of, it's kind of our jam. >>So as a lot of organizations are going through FedRAMP certification, I was just at one of Dell's events the other week. They're going through it. I know some other like e-signature companies are doing, a lot of companies are, are you paying attention to that? Is that something that you think in the future might provide more confidence? >>Completely transparent. It's something I should be paying more attention to that I'm, I've just, I really haven't really done as much research as I should have and you know, I take full responsibility for that. But at the same time, you know, there's, there's a lot of other things going on in the U S that until we implement something of that nature, I don't really think that I'm really too concerned about it. So Matthew, you've been to a few of these events. Last one, last year there was a lot of talk about the coming change in this year. Lot of new faces, new Hedvig metallic. Yeah. So what we'll want to get your impression on the executive changes, some of the, you know, are you seeing any indications of organizational changes and the products? What I'm seeing is I'm seeing new life to a product that I've always been told is a dinosaur, which I kind of laugh cause I'm like, well if this dinosaur is doing things that, you know, the greatest and latest and greatest things aren't or aren't really doing. So to see this new life, the new rebranding of the logo, the new leadership, the new acquisitions and everything is just like feeding fuel to the fire. That is combo. And, and I'm, I'm pretty excited. I will say that I'm a little bit more excited about the new additions to like orchestrate and activate since stuff like metallic. I won't really be implementing just because of our business practices. But yeah. >>Let's talk about in our last few minutes here, cause they actually talked about some of the new technologies with orchestrate activate yesterday and today, but in terms of support we just had as to mention, we just interviewed Sandy Hamilton and she's come on board in the last, I think she said four and a half months. Owning professional services systems, engineering support, customer success throughout the entire life cycle. Tell us a little bit in, in our closing minute or so about the support and training that you've gotten from combat that give you the confidence for you and one of your other guys to be here and not tied to your phone. >>I don't think I'd still be with combo if it wasn't for their support. I, I owe so much to their support. They've brought me through some pretty dark times with deployment, with troubleshooting, with failures where I thought that I had things right and it just didn't work. I've called in at one in the morning, got great support, I've caught any 10 in the morning and got great support, phenomenal follow up. Um, their, their community impact, like their forums and their customer champion. So much. Just additional information that helps you not have to call in and not make you feel like that, Oh, that failure. So I owe a lot to their support and their training because without a, like I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be on stage. I'm, I'm wonder if you could put a point on that, the, the forums in your participation as a customer champion, you're spending your own time, you're working with your PBM. >>Why is that so important and how is this the vibrancy of this community, you know, it belongs to the worlds, you know, naming the things that you learn. Somebody taught me, so why shouldn't I teach somebody else? And if that makes someone else be able to go out and ride mountain bikes or cook with their daughter or do anything like that, then I'm all for it because it got me, it got me through all that. So I mean I have 10 15 minutes on the customer forum to answer you. Oh yeah, I know that. I've seen that. I had a gentleman the first morning at breakfast, like I've had a ticket open for two weeks and they can't figure it out. And we worked together and actually got his problem solved, you know? And it was like the only reason is because I've seen that and I worked with combat and they showed me how to fix it and I retain that knowledge. >>That's awesome. DOE takes paying it forward to a whole new level. And it also volumes about how you followed Jimmy chin this morning and nailed it. I tried. It was very difficult, you know, I'm sure that you know why he was filming that solo climber. He was sweaty palms. I was definitely sweaty phone calls. It was, well, Matthew, what a pleasure to have you on the program. So much fun. Thank you. Congratulations on your success and we look forward to hearing it. Many more great things out of Sonic. Thank you. All right. First to a minimum I and Lisa Martin, you're watching the cube from combo go 19.

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back there. Ready, Geoffrey? Here with the cue, we're pager duty Summit in the historic Western St Francis Hotel, downtown San Francisco. I think they've outgrown the venue. The place is packed to the gills. Standing, rolling, the keynote Really excited of our next guest. Someone who's been to this industry for awhile really done some super cool creative things. He's given the closing keynote. We're happy to have him here right now. That's Mitchell Hashimoto from Hachiko. It's great to see you. >>Good to see you too. Thanks for having >>absolutely so just a quick overview before we get into it on hot chic or for the people in our familiar >>Sure, so hospitals a company that what we try to do is help people adopt cloud, but more, more realistically, Adolfo multi cloud and hybrid cloud the real world complexities. That cloud isn't just a technical landing point, but it's really way You deliver software. You want to deliver more applications, you want to connect them faster. You want to do this in an automated away infrastructure is code of all these modern practices way. Build a suite of tools Thio provisions secure, connect and run those applications for separate products that we sell that you could adopt separately. Good mix and match. That's That's what we've been doing for a long time. Based on open source Software, Way started purely as an open source community and have grown into an enterprise cos that's that's That's the elevator pitch. >>No, it's great, but it's a great story, >>right? Europe, Europe in Seattle got some access to some cloud infrastructure and really solve your own problem. Figured out other people of that problem and then really built a really cool, open source kind of based software company. >>Yeah, I mean, I think the amount of people that had the problem I was facing personally was orders of magnitude more than I expected. I've told other people we never expected to start even a business around this. It was just scratching and building technical solutions. But a CZ, as we sort of worked at startups, started talking a bigger and bigger companies. It just kept everyone kept saying, Yes, I have that problem and it's only grown since then, right surprising, >>and the complexity has only grown exponentially before. The you know, years ago, there was this bright, shiny new object called a W s. I mean, I love Bezos is great line that nobody even paid attention. You have six or seven years. They've got a head start and kind of this Russian. Now there's been a little bit of a fallback as people trying to figure out what to go where now it's hybrid cloud and horses for courses. So a lot of great complexity, which is nothing but good news for you. >>Absolutely. I told this story before, but our first year incorporated company I actually got hung up on by an analyst because I said way we're trying to solve a multi cloud problem and they said that's not a real problem when it will never be a real problem. They hung up on me on it was a bet, then, and and I think they're the expectation that was it was gonna be Eight of us is gonna be physical infrastructure and the physical infrastructure days were numbered. It was gonna get acts out. It was just gonna all go to eight of us and our conviction was that you would have both forever and or for a very long time. And then people like Azure, Google and others would pick up and and that's been true. But I think what we didn't expect, the complexity that got introduced with things like containers in Kubernetes because it's not like Clouded option finished in the next started It all came at once. So now Riel Cos they're dealing with the complexity of their still trying to move the clouds. They're trying to get more out of their physical infrastructure, trying to adopt kubernetes. Now people are starting to peck at them about server list. So there the complexity is is a bit crazy and review our job trying to simplify that adoption make you get the most out of >>right. And that was before you could get a piece of Ian where inside of AWS, get a get a piece of the Google Data Center inside your own data center. So it just continues to get crazier. >>Yes, yeah, So you're giving a closing keynote on a >>new project. You're working on fault, and it's an existing project. Justin cry. They're old, but but I think you talked about before we turn the cameras on. It's really more of a kind of an attitude in a and a point of view and a way to go after the problem. So I wonder if you could kind of dig into a little bit of What did you see? How did you decide to kind of turn the lens a little bit and reframe this challenge? Yeah, >>I think the big picture of story I'm trying to tell him the keynote is that everybody? Anything You look around the technical nontechnical, this table, that glass. Like everything you look at, it trickles back to the idea of one or a small group of people, and it takes an army to make it show up on this table. But it starts by somebody's vision, and everything was created by somebody. So I'm talking about vault, something we made and, you know, why don't we create it? And why do we make it the way we did? And you know, another thing I say is people ask, Why did you start hot record for having this vision? Something I constantly told myself was wine on me. I get someone's gonna do it. Why not make it? Could be anybody, like I'll give it a shot. Why not? And Bolt was that way. We Armand. I'm a co founder. Way took security classes in college, but we don't have a formal security background. We didn't work in security in industry. So the odds of us launching a security product that is so prevalent today whether you know it or not, it's behind the scenes very prevalent were stacked against us. How did that happen? And that's that's sort of what I've been going to talk about. >>Let's go. But do >>dive into a little bit on the security challenge because it's funny, right? Everyone always says, Right. Security's got to be baked in and you've got these complex infrastructure and everything's connected with AP eyes, the other people's applications and, oh yes, delivered through this little thing that you carry around. And maybe the network's not working well or the CPS running low are You're running iPhone five. And of course, it's not gonna work on most modern app. Yeah, bacon security always do, but that's easy to say. It's much harder to do, you know. Still, people want to build moats and castles and drawbridges, and that's just not gonna work anymore. >>Exactly. So you exactly hit upon the two major issues that we recognize there felt we recognize. One was that a lot of people were saying it. Very few people were doing it on. The reality was it was hard to do. Everyone knew theoretically what they should do. No one, no one thought. Oh yeah, saving somebody's personal information in plain text in the daytime. It's a good idea. Nobody thought that Everyone said it should be encrypted, but encryption is hard. So maybe one day, so no one was doing it. And then the other side of it was the people that were doing it where the world's largest companies, because the solutions were catered towards his mindset of of castle and moats, which works totally fine in a physical tradition environment but completely breaks down in a cloud world where there is no four perimeters anymore. It's >>still there, There. >>You're one AP I call away from opening everything to the Internet. So how do you protect this? And we've seen a lot of trends change towards zero Trust and ServiceMaster Mutual feel like there's a lot of stuff that happened way sort of jumped on that. >>Yeah, so So you're using, like, multi level encryption, and I've read a little bit on the website. It's way over my head, I think. But, you >>know, the basics are just making kryptonite. Christian makes security, cloud infrastructure, security approachable by anybody and a core philosophy. Our company, Hashi Hashi Hashi. My name means bridge, and that is a core part of our culture. Which is you can't just have, ah, theoretical thing or a shiny object and leave people hanging. You gotta give them a bridge, a path to get there, right? And so we say, with all our technology, one of the crawl, walk and run adoption periods and with security it's the same is that to say you're secure means something totally different everybody for a bank to be secure, it's a lot more than for a five person started to be secure. So how do you give somebody a solutions they could adopt? Check the security box for themselves at every path of the lake, and bald is one of the tools that way have individuals using it, and we have the world's largest companies, almost 10% of the global 2000 paying customers evolved many more open source users on its scales the entire spectrum. >>Wow. So you keep coming up >>with lots of new, uh, new projects as we get ready to flip the counter to 2020. What are some of the things you're thinking about? >>I think the big one, you know, that our focus is right now is service. Miss Vault is we're big enough company now where we always have teams working on every every one of our projects we have release is going out. The thing we've been talking about the most is the service mess thing. I think Cloud as a mainstream thing, Let's say, has has existed for seven or eight years. It's since it's been released. It's been over in almost 15 but as a thing that people have, that is a good idea. Seven or eight years and you know we've touched security. Now we've touched how infrastructures managed touch developers. I think a place that's been relatively untouched and has gotten by without anyone noticing has been networking and network security. They're they're really doing things the way they've always done things, and I think that's been okay because there's bigger fish to fry. But I think the time has come and networking as a bull's eye on it. And people are looking at What is networking mean in a cloud world and service mash appears to be the way that is gonna happen. Way have our own service mess solution called Council on Our Approaches Standard Hasta Corp. It's nothing new. It's We're gonna work with everything containers, kubernetes, viens physical infrastructure. We're gonna make it all work across multiple data centers. That is our approach service fashion, solving that challenge. >>What's the secret sauce? >>I mean, it's not that secret, right? >>It's just building. Just execute. Better understand that this header >>JD is the problem, right? Right, I said, This is our keynote a couple weeks ago that there are a lot of service messes out there, and nine out of 10 of them are solving a solution for a single environment, whether it's kubernetes or physical environment. And I think that's a problem. But it's not the problem. The problem to me is how do I get my kubernetes instances pods to communicate to my NSX service is on my physical infrastructure. That is the problem as people, whether that's temporary, not and they intend to move the communities or whatever. It's that's the reality. And how do you make that work? And that is what we're focused on solving that problem >>just every time I hear service mess. I think there was a company a while ago that sold the CSC. Probably like 2013. Didn't really get into That is a as a good, happy story. But they were early on the name. Yeah. Yeah. So last thing pager duty were Pedrie. What? You guys doing a page of duty? >>Sure. So we've been I've actually been a paying customer pager duty since before we even made this company in my previous job was a customer wear now, still customers. So we still use it internally. But in addition to that way, do integration across the board. So with terra form our infrastructure provisioning tool way have a way to manage all pager duty as code and as your complexion pager duty rises instead of clicking through a u. I being able to version and code everything and have that realize itself and how he works very valuable from like a service MASH consul standpoint. Hooking in the monitoring to the alerting of Pedro duty is a big thing that we do so tying those together. So it's very symbiotic. I love pager duty as a user and a partner. There's a lot here. >>Yeah, is pretty interesting slide when Jennifer put up in the keynote where it listed so many integration points with so many applications with on the outside looking in and you're like how you're integrating with spunk, that making how you're innovating with service. Now that doesn't make any sense. How Integrated was in Desperate. These were all kind of systems of record, but really, there's some really elegant integration points to make. This one plus one equals three opportunity between these applications. >>Yeah, I think it's very similar to the stuff we do with Walton Security. It's like the core permanence. Everybody needs him like with security. Everyone is an auto. Everyone needs traceability. Everyone needs access control. But rebuilding that functionality and every application is unrealistic. And paging and alerting an on call and events are the same thing. So it's you'd rather integrate and leverage those systems that make that your nexus for that specific functionality. And that's where Page duties. Awesome way. Step in, >>which was always great to catch up. Good luck on your keynote tomorrow. And really, it's a really amazing story to watch that you got You guys have built >>Well, thank you very much. >>All right. He's Mitchell. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cue. Were paid your duty, Simon in downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back there, Right, Jeffrey here with the cue, We're pager duty Psalm in its fourth year page summit Third year The Cube being here at West say, Fritz in downtown San Francisco and tying a pager duty summons up running the Western Frances. We're excited to be joined by our next two guests coming all way across the Pacific Ocean. My media left is Daniel Sultaana, group director for >>Sass for Technology. Want Daniel? Great to see you. Thank you. On his left camera. Network TV production engineer Lee also for technology one woke up. So first question. First time in the States. >>Not the first time. The state of into the states, Many tires. So it's a great comeback. California particular center. It is the >>first time for May, but it's been absolutely great. I got the whole weekend to explore San Francisco. Just one >>good give great. It's a great place thio around, but let's talk about Pedro December 1st time duty, Simon A lot. Actually, 1000 people company I P o. This year, a lot of buzz around here >>Really exciting. Great for pages. Video. I appreciate very similar company to technology wanted. Tim saws terms off genetic heritage. So there's a lot of affiliation between our two companies. >>All right, let's jump into what is technology. >>So technology wanted to Australia's largest enterprise software company. We produce software in a few vertical markets, focusing on higher education, local federal government, asset intensive and healthy. >>All right, so you guys are presenting later today on a really interesting topic referenced in the keynote. Your conversation is having increased customer experiences without burning out your people. I think the official report was unplanned work. The human impact been always on world. This is a really deal. People about the human impact duty, the pager. Peter's got a ring somewhere. You see a big impact in terms of the pressure on the teams to deliver with this kind of consumerism ation of I t expect. And that's >>exactly if you look at the enterprise well. Vanda pauses, expecting consumer response. You know, if your Netflix goes down your home tonight, you want that keeps immediately. It's the same pressure now that we're saying transferring today, it's complicated >>for me on on myself. So implementing these kind of systems that just helps an awful ones really understand and reduce the amount of time that we're spending on those incidents after Alice. >>Right? Because we talk a lot about unplanned downtime and maintenance for here, right on machines. And it's hugely impactful and a lot of conversations about prescriptive maintenance and kind of getting ahead of that. We don't hear that conversation so much about people you got humans about. The humans evolved, and I really interesting take as we go aboard. The complexity of the systems between the 80 eyes and everything's connected is no astronomically more complex. And it wasn't >>it definitely is way usedto have very simple traditional surfaces, but now it's hundreds of different services and applications that only talk together. Managing That's a very different game when it used to be >>right. So how does painting maybe help you? How did you start to build a I machine learning for it to be able to get a triage and more importantly, you know, assigned right tasked with the right people, >>I think first start off with us having many district systems bring that together, falling through. So it's like having many different nations around the world. Trying to talk, but not a common interface on bringing together was a first >>for us. What's next? They're still together, >>still pulling together now, actually understanding what we have turning that into processes that are more efficient, using the technology to move the various conversation alerts and information right ares triage ahead of time before problems actually happening. >>I think the other thing that we're more towards starting to use the diner a lot more to make more valuable got agreement, decisions, a supposed toe, intuition based decisions that we used to make >>right, replace something else that you already had kind of a supplement, >>not replace it. So So if I go back just to the technology wanted a street we're 30 years old started off before the Internet. So as we made this transition from on premises to a sax baseball way, needed tools help us in these multiple always on world. >>So So what? What are the characteristics of the biggest problems come up in terms of application interfaces or no way at all? These things tied together what seems to be the weakest link What is the one that you know most banks Now you can kind of reduced the settings. >>I don't think there's any one specific thing way. Talk about Cole's. An awful lot guards really great causes. It's very rarely ever one simple thing that's caused the problem. It's normally a multiple factors that come into play, and some of that can be. Has the engineer being cold three times. I've not came to what with two hours sleep, >>right? And you said you said you carry a pager and hopefully you don't have it All right Now >>it is on >>its way to switch number inside of me. Have you seen seen a reduction in kind of the pressure call in the qualities stuff that gets through triage and actually make it to the major >>way some stuff, way fix from bed. Now you stop to wake up >>way getting up. >>So we used a pager beauty my bollock way. Have some stuff that we built into that as well. And waken fix things from Ben >>give you exact way, have some issues that take us minutes to resolve. We've managed to bring that down to three >>wise that because better, better tasking of the people. Better identification problems were some things that drive exactly that. >>So it is bringing the multiple inputs into a central place that being interpreted and then being shifted off to the right resources to be able to fix it behind. Or there's no some automated, tacit kickoff. And that just condenses the whole into in process dramatically. So our customers seeing a much greater meantime between failure because we could get on the things a lot faster. >>Okay, so lessons for people thinking about paging me. What would you tell him? Some of your peers that are that are carrying the pager and red eyed way. >>Look, I think managing your PayPal is very important, I think way living in a world where talent is actually hard to secure. So you need to ensure that that talent is protected and looked after well nourished and grows on. So we've just page me to help do that, sure that teams don't burn out to understand what root causes also attack a rock, pools on become more efficient. >>Is there any specific characteristics are attributes in the people leaving? They're in their behavior, things that they do You're measuring as being now less burning? Absolutely >>way. Actually running employee in peace >>So they all just wrote a book. Five. So they get >>Andrea Lee. Something fundamental was around with number out of Dallas. That was That was really died. Other measure its foreign off. I wonder what a >>charity secrets. But when things were not good, orders of magnitude of work was done. Kind of unscheduled, which is causing this angst. How's that? Kind of? Just >>wear multiple hours every night. I'll be, quite frankly, people was on way. Knew that's how far. >>Right? Right, Right. >>Good. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing the story. And good luck. Hopefully nobody else resigns and keep a couple a bunch of happy, happy clients opened out and deliver the great customer experience. Absolutely. Alright, >>stand the camera. Jeff, You're watching the cube? Were some it downtown

live from Atlanta Georgia it's the tube covering ansible fest 2019 brought to you by Red Hat hello everyone welcome to the queue we are broadcasting live here in Atlanta Georgia I'm John force too many men my co-host the cubes coverage of Red Hat ansible Fest this is probably one of the hottest topic areas that we've been seeing in Enterprise tech emerging along with observability automation and observability is the key topics here automation is the theme stew ansible just finished their keynote keynote analysis general availability of their new platform the ansible automation platform is the big news this is a big I mean it seems nuanced for the general tech practitioner out there what's ansible doing why we here we saw the rise of network management turned into observability as the hottest category in the cloud cloud 2.0 companies going public a lot of M&A activity and observability is data-driven automations this other category that is just exploding and growth and change huge impact to all industries and it's coming from the infrastructure scale side where the blocking and tackling of DevOps has been this is the focus of ansible and their show automation for all your analysis of the keynote what's the most important thing going on here yes so John as you said automation is a super hot topic you know I was just at the New Relic show talking about observability last week we've got the Pedro Duty show also going on this week the the automation is so critical we know that IT can't keep up with things if they can't automate it and it's not just replacing some scripting I loved in the keynote they talked about strategically thinking about automation we've been watching the RP a companies talking about automation so there's lots of different automation there's the right way to do it and another thing angle John that we love covering is you know what's going on with open source you were just at the open core summit in San Francisco the Red Hat team very clear open source is not their business model it is they use open source and everything that Red Hat does is a hundred percent open source and that was core and key to what ansible was and how its created this isn't a product pitch here it's a community you know it's John this is the six most active you know repository in github so out of over a hundred million repositories out there the six most active so that tells you that this is being used by the community it's not a couple of companies using this but it's a broad ecosystem we hear Microsoft and Cisco f5 lots of companies that are contributing as well as just all of the end users we of JPMorgan in the keynote this morning so a lot of participation there but you know it is building out that suite with the platform that you talked about and we're gonna spend a lot of time in the next few days understanding this maturation and growth yeah the automation platform that they announced that's the big news the general availability of their automation platform and stew the word they're using here is scale okay and this is something that you brought up to open core summit which I attended last week was the inaugural conference a lot of controversy and this is a generational shift we are seeing in the midst of our own eyes right in front of us on the ground floor of a shift in open source community how the platform of open source is evolving what Amazon now azure and Google and the others are doing is they're showing that scale has changed the game in how open-source is going to not only grow and evolve but shape application developers and the reason why ansible is so important right now in this conference is that we all know that when you stand up stuff infrastructure you've got to configure the hell out of it DevOps has always been infrastructure is code and as more stuff gets scaled up as more stuff gets provision as more stuff gets built and created the management and the controlling of the configurations this has been a real hot spot this has been an opportunity and a problem so you know everyone who's here they're they're active because you know what this is a major pain point this is a problem area that's an opportunity to take what is a blocking and tackling operational role configurating standing up infrastructure enabling applications and making it a competitive advantage this is why the game is changing starting to see platforms not tools your analysis are they positioned was this keynote successful John and I really liked rut Robin Bergeron came out and talked about the key principles of what antal is done its simplicity its modularity and it's learning from open source this project was only started in 2012 so one of the things I always look at is in the old days you wanted you know to have that experience there's no compression algorithm for experience today if I could start from day one today and build with the latest tools you know heavily using DevOps understanding all of the experience that's happened in open source we can move forward so from 2012 to 2015 Red Hat you know acquired ansible to today in 2019 they're making huge growth and helping companies really leverage and mature their IT processes and move towards you know true business innovation with leveraging automation dude this is not and again this is not for the faint of heart either again these are Rockstar DevOps infrastructure folks who are evolving in taking either network and or infrastructure development to enable and software abstraction layer for applications and this not it's not a joke either I mean got some big names up on stage of just one tweet I want to call out and get your reaction to JP Morgan on his presentation the exact there he was tweet came out from Christopher Festa 500 developers are working to automate business processes leading to among other benefits ninety-eight percent improvement in recovery times what used to take six to eight hours to recover now takes two to five minutes Christopher Festa student so John that's what we want is how can we take these things that took you know hours and I had to go through this ticketing process and make that change what I loved of what Chris from JP Morgan said is he brought us inside he said look to make this change it took us a year of sorting through the security the cyber the the control processes we understand there's not just you know oh hey let's sprinkle a little DevOps on everything and it's wonderful we need to get you know buy-in from the team it you know and it can spread between groups and you know change that culture it's something that you know we've tracked in Red Hat for years and all of these environments this something that does require commitment because it's not just John taking oh I scripted something and and and that's good we need to be able to really look at these changes because automation if we just automate a bad process that's not gonna help our business we really need to make sure we understand what we're automating the business value and and what is going are going to be the ramification to what we're doing well one of the things I want to share with folks watching is some research that we did at Silk'n angle the cube and wiki bond it's part of our cube insights do I know you were part of this we talked to a bunch of practitioners and customers and dozens of our of our community members and we found that observability we've just pointed out has been you know explosive category that automation has been identified and we're putting a stake in the ground right here in the cube as one of the next big sectors that will rise up as a small little white space will become a massive market automation you watch that cloud 2.0 sector called automation why the reasoning was this and here's the results of our of our survey automation is quickly becoming a critical foundational element of the network as enterprises focus on multi cloud network being infrastructure servers and storage a multi cloud rapid application development and deployment software-defined everything's happening pretty much we've been covering that on the cube and most enterprises are just crap lling with this concept and see opportunities the benefits that people see in automation as we've discovered still in the following one focused on focused efforts for better results efficiency security is a top driver on all these things because you got to have security built into the software and then automation is creating job satisfaction for these guys I mean they've been doing this is mundane tasks being automated way so people are happier so job satisfaction and finally this is an opportunity to rescale do these are the key bullet points that we found in talking to our serve our community your reaction to those those results yeah John I love that we know ultimately when we want to be able to provide not only better value to my ultimate end user but I need to look internal as you said John you know how can i you know retool some of my sales force and get them engaged and if you want to hire the Millennials they want a bit just and not be doing the drudgery they want to do something where they feel that they are making a difference and you know you laid out a lot of good reasons why it would help and why people would want to get involved John you know the government I've talked to a number of government agencies when they talk about you know we changed that 40-year old process and now we're doing things faster and better and that means I can really hire that next generation of workforce because otherwise I wouldn't be able to hire them to just do things the old way this is about cloud 2 point and this is about modernization and you mention open source open core summit that I think is a tell sign that open source is changing the communities are changing this is gonna be a massive wave again we've been chronicling this cloud 2 point of the week we coined that term we're trying to identify those key points obviously observability automation but look at the end of the day you got to have a focused effort to make the job go better you heard JP Morgan pointing out minutes versus hours this is the benefits of infrastructure as code in the end of the day employee satisfaction the people that you want to hire to re-skill that can be redeployed into new roles analytics math quantitative analysis versus the mundane tasks automation is going to impact all aspects of the stack so final questions do what are you expecting for the next two days we're gonna be here for two days what do you expect to hear from our guests yeah so John one of the things I'm going to really look at is as you mentioned infrastructure is that where this all started so you know how do I easy to play a VM you know ansible is there you know VMware I've already talked to a number of people in the virtualization community they love and embrace ansible we saw Microsoft up on stage loving embrace it as we move towards micro service architectures containerization and all of these cloud native deployments you know how is ansible in this community doing where the stumbling blocks to be honest from what I hear John coming into this anta Buhl's been doing well Red Hat has helped them grow even more and the expectation is that IBM will help proliferate this in even further the traditional competitors to ansible you think about the chef's in puppet to the world have been struggling with that cloud native world John I know I see ansible when I go to the cloud shows and I hear customers talking about it so ansible seems to be making that transition towards cloud native well but other threats in the cloud native world you know if I've said you know that when I when I go to the server lists you know conference I I don't I have not yet heard you know where this fits into the environment so we always know that that next generation and technology you know how will you know this automation move forward as Red Hat starts to get much more proliferating into major enterprises with IBM which will take their extend their lead even further in the enterprise it's an opportunity for ansible and the community angle is interesting I saw our tweets don't get your community your angle real quick on this I saw a tweet from NetApp their tagline at their booth is simplify automate and orchestrate sounds like they're leading into the kubernetes world containers you got to start thinking about software abstractions and this is the st. the you know provisioning hardware anymore whole new ballgame your assessment of an Sable's community presence mentioned I was a tweet from Red Hat I mean NetApp what's your take on the community angle here John it's all about community we the github stats speak for themselves this is very much a community invent you know kudos to the team here a lot on the diversity inclusion effort so really pushing those things forward John something we always notice at the tech shows the ratio of you know gender is way to more diverse at an event like this we know we see it in the developer communities that there was more diversity in there so by the way when they took over this hotel all of the bathrooms are I believe it's you know it's gender-neutral so you can use whatever bathroom yeah you know you you want there let's make sure I'm using the right pronoun when I'm going saying a lot of people Stu thanks for commentary keynote analysis I'm John first dude minimun breaking down why we are here why ansible why is automation important we believe automation will be a killer category we want to see a lot of growth here and again the impact is with machine learning and AI this is where it all starts automating the data the technology and the configuration is going to empower the next generation modern enterprise more live coverage from ansible fests after this short break

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >> Welcome to this cube competition here at the Palo Alto Cube Studios. I'm John for a host of the Cube. Were here a special guests to keep alumni investor An entrepreneur who do Sudhakar, would you Good to see you again, John. Always a pleasure. You've been on as an entrepreneur, founder. As an investor, you're always out. Scour in the Valley was a great conversation. I want to get your thoughts as kind of a guest analyst on this segment around the state of the Union for Enterprise Tech. As you know, we covering the price tag. We got all the top enterprise B to B events. The world has changed and get reinvent coming up. We got VM World before that. The two big shows, too to cap out this year got sprung a variety of other events as well. So a lot of action cloud now is pretty much a done deal. Everyone's validating it. Micro cells gaining share a lot of growth areas around cloud that's been enable I want to get your thoughts first. Question is what are the top growth sectors in the enterprise that you're seeing >> papers. Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure talking to you over the years. You and me have done this so many times. I'm learning a lot from you. So thank you. You are so yeah, I think Let's dig into the cloud side and in general market. So I think that there are 34 areas that I see a lot that's happening a lot. Cloud is still growing, a lot 100% are more growth and cloud and dog breeders. And what is the second? I see, a lot of I T services are close services. This includes service management. The areas that service now isn't They're >> still my ops was Maybe >> they opt in that category. E I said With management, the gutter is coming with the new canticle a service management. So they're replacing idea some with a different. So that's growing 800% as a category tourist. RP according to again, the industry analysts have seen that it's going at 65 to 70% so these three areas are going a lot in the last one that I see a lot of user experience. Can you build? It's like it's a 20,000,000,000 market cap, something. So if you let it out, it's a cloud service Management services RP user experience cos these are the four areas I see a lot dating all the oxygen rest. Everybody is like the bread crumbs. >> Okay, and why do you think the growth in our P A. So how's the hype? Is it really what? What is going on in our pee, In your opinion, >> on the rumors I'm hearing or there is some companies are already 1,000,000,000 revenue run great wise. That's a lot in our piece. So it's not really a hype that really so that if you look and below that, what's happening is I'd be a Companies are automating automation. The key for here is if I can improve the user experience and also automate things. RPS started doing screen scraping right in their leaders, looking at any reservations supply chain any workflow automation. So every company is so complex. Now somebody has to automate the workflow. How can you do this with less number of people, less number, resources, and improve the productivity >> coming? R P A. Is you know, robotic process automation is what it stands for, but ultimately it's software automation. I mean, it's software meets cloud meets automation. It seems to be the big thing. That's also where a I can play a part. Your take on the A I market right now. Obviously, Cloud and A I are probably the two biggest I think category people tend to talk about cloud and a eyes kind of a big kind of territories. RPG could fall under a little bit of bulls, but what you take on a guy, >> Yeah, so I think if you look at our pier, I actually call the traditional appears to be historical legacy. Wonders and R P companies are doing a good job to transform themselves to the next level, right? But our pianist Rocky I score. It's no longer the screen skipping tradition, making the workflow understanding. So there are new technology called conversational Rp. There's actually a separate market. Guys been critical conversation within a Can I talk to in a dialogue manner like what you experienced Instagram are what using what's up our dialogue flow? How can I make it? A conversational RPS is a new secretary is evolving it, but our becomes have done a good job. They leave all their going out. A >> lot has been has great success. We've been covering them like a blanket on a single cube. Um, I got it. I got to get your take on how this all comes into the next generation modern era because, um, you know, we're both been around the block. We've seen the waves of innovation. The modern error of clouds certainly cloud one Dato Amazon. Now Microsoft has your phone. Google anywhere else really goes. Dev Ops, The devil's movement cloud native amazing, create a lot of value continues to do well, but now there's a big culture on cloud 2.0, what is your definition of cloud two point? Oh, how do you see Cloud 2.0, evolving. But >> I like the name close to party. I think it's your third. It is going to continue as a trained. So look, throw two point with eyes. I don't know what it will be, but I can tell you what it should be and what it can have. Some other things that should do in the cloud is cloud is still very much gun to human beings. Lot of develops people. Lot of human being The next addition to a daughter should have things done programmatically I don't need tens of thousands off Assad ease and develops people. So back to your air, upside and everything. Some of those things should become close to become proactive. I don't want to wait until Amazon. Easter too is done. If I'm paying him is on this money. Amazon should be notifying me when my service is going to be done. The subsidy eaters They operated Chlo Trail Cloudwatch Exeter. But they need to take it to a notch level. But Amazon Azure. >> So making the experience of deploying, running and building APS scalable. Actually, that's scales with Clavet. Programmable kind of brings in the RPI a mean making a boat through automation edge of the network is also interesting. Comes up a lot like Okay, how do you deal with networking? Amazons Done computing storage and meet amazing. Well, cloud and networking has been built in, I guess to me, the trend of networking kicks in big because now it's like, OK, if you have no perimeter, you have a service area with I o t. >> There's nothing that >> cloud to point. It has to address riel time programming ability. Things like kubernetes continues to rise. You're gonna need to have service has taken up and down automatically know humans. So this >> is about people keep on fur cloak. What should be done before the human in the to rate still done. It develops. People are still using terror from lot of scripting. Lot of manual. Can you automata? That's one angle The second angle I see in cloud 2.0 is if you step back and say What, exactly? The intrinsic properties of Claude Majors. It's the work floor. It's automation, but it's also able to do it. Pro, actually. So what I don't have to raise if I'm playing club renders this much money. Tell me what outrageous are happening. Don't wait until outage happens. Can you predict voted? Yes, they have the capability to women. It should be Probably steal it. No, not 100%. So I want to know what age prediction. I wonder what service are going down. Are notified the user's that will become a a common denominator and solutions will be start providing, even though you see small startups doing this. Eventually they become features all these companies, and they'll get absorbed by the I called his aircraft carriers. You have Masson agile DCP. They're going to absorb all this, a ups to the point that provide that as the functionality. >> Yeah, let's get the consolidation in second. I want to get your thoughts on the cloud to point because we really getting at is that there's a lot of white space opportunity coming in. So I gotta ask you to start up. Question as you look at your investor, prolific investor in start ups. Also, you're an entrepreneur yourself. What >> is? >> They have opportunities out there because we'll get into the big the big whales Amazon, who were building and winning at scale. So embarrassed entry or higher every day, even though it's open sources, They're Amazons, betting on open source. Big time. We had John Thompson talk about that. That was excessive. Something Nutella. And so what? What if I was a printer out there? Would what do I do? I mean, is there Is there any real territory that I could create a base camp on and make money? >> That's plenty. So there's plenty of white faces to create. Look, first of all your look at what's catering, look at what's happening. IBM is auto business in service management, CSL itself to Broadcom. BMC is sold twice to private companies. Even the CEO got has left our war It is. Then you have to be soldiers of the Micro Focus. The only company that's left is so it's not so in that area, you can create plenty of good opportunities. That's a big weight. >> Sensors now just had a bad quarter. So actually, clarity will >> eventually they're gonna enough companies to go in that space. That play that's based can support 23 opportunities so I can see a publicly traded company in service. No space in next five years. My production is they'll be under company will go a p o in the service management space. Same things would happen. Rp, Rp vendors won't get acquired A little cleared enough work for automation. They become the next day because of the good. I can see a next publicly traded company. What happened in the 80 operations? Patriotism Probably. Computer company Pedro is doing really well. Watch it later. Don't. They're going to go public next. So that area also, you see plenty of open record companies in a UPS. >> So this is again back to the growth areas. Cloud hard to compete on Public Cloud. Yes, the big guys are out there. There's a cloud enablers, the people who don't have the clouds. So h p tried to do a cloud hp They had to come out, they'll try to cloud couldn't do It s a P technically is out there with a cloud. They're trying to be multi cloud. So you have a series of people who made it an oracle still on the fence. They still technically got a cloud, but it's really more Oracle and Oracle. So they're kind of stuck in the middle between the cloud and able nervous. The Cloud player. If you're not a cloud player large enterprise, what is the strategy? Because you got HP, IBM, Cisco and Dell. >> So I don't know. You didn't include its sales force in that If I'm Salesforce, I want sales force to get in. They have a sales cloud marketing cloud commerce code. Mark is not doing anything in the area of fighting clothes. They cannot go from 100,000,000,000 toe, half a trillion trillion market cap. Told I D. They have to embrace that and that's 100% growth area. You know, people get into this game at some point. It'll be is already hard and 50,000,000,000 market cap. Then that leaves. What is this going to do? Cisco has been buying more security software assets, but they don't wanna be a public company, their hybrid club. But they have to figure out How can they become an arms dealer in escape and by ruining different properties off close services? And that's gonna happen. And I've been really good job by acquiring Red Heart. So I think some place really figuring out this what is happening. But they have to get in the gaming club they have to do. Other service management have begun and are here. They have to get experience. None of these guys have experienced in this day and age that you killed and who are joining the workforce. They care for Airbnb naked for we work. They care for uber. They care for Netflix. It is not betting unders. So if I'm on the border, Francisco, I'm not talking about experience That's a problem to me. Hey, tree boredom is not talking about that. That's what if I'm I know Mark is on the board. Paramount reason. But Mark is investing in all the slack. Cos then why is it we are doing it either hit special? Get a separate board member. They should get somebody else. >> Why? He wouldn't tell. You have to move. Maybe. I don't know. We don't talk about injuries about that. But I want to get back to this experience thing because experience has become the new expectation. Yes, that's been kind of a design principle kind of ethos. Okay, so let's take that. The next little younger generation, they're consuming Airbnb. They're using the serious like their news and little chunks be built a video service for that. So things are changing. What is? I tease virgin as the consumption is a product issue. So how does I t cater to these new experience? What are some of those experiences? I >> think all of them. But I think I d for Social Kedrick, every property, every product should figure out how to offer to the young dreamers how they were contributed offer to the businesses on the B two baby to see. So the eye has to think every product or not. Should I start thinking about how my user should consume this and how should out for new experiences and how they want to see this in a new way, right? It's not in the same the same computer networking. How can a deluded proactively How can a dealer to a point where people can consume it and make other medications so darn edition making? That's where the air comes in. Don't wait for me toe. Ask the question. Suggest it's like Gmail auto complete. Every future should be thinking through problem. Still, what can I do to improve the experience that changes the product? Management's on? And that's what I'm looking at, companies who are thinking like that connection and see Adam Connection security. But that has to happen in the product. >> I was mentioning the people who didn't have clouds HP, IBM, Cisco and Dell you through sales force in there, I kind of would think sales were six, which is technically a cloud. They were cloud before cloud was even cloud. They built basically oracle for the cloud that became sales force. But you mentioned service now. Sales force. You got adobe, You got work day. These are application clouds. So they're not public clouds per se they get Amazon Web service is, you know, at Adobe runs on AWS, right? A lot of other people do. Microsoft has their own cloud, but they also have applications as well. Office 3 65 So what if some of these niche cloud these application clouds have to do differently? Because if you think about sales force, you mentioned a good point. Why isn't sales were doing more? People generally don't like Salesforce. You think that it's more of a lock inspect lesson with a wow. They've done really innovative things. I mean, I don't People don't really tend to talk about sales force in the same breath as innovation. They talk about Well, we run sales for us. We hate it or we use it and they never really break into these other markets. What's your take on them? >> I think Mark has done a good job to order. Yes, acquiring very cos it has to start from the top and at the market. His management team should say, I want to get in a new space. He got in tow. Commerce. Claudia got into marketing. He has to know, decide to get into idea or not. Once he comes out, he's really taken because today, science. What is below the market cap? Com Part of it'll be all right. If I am sales force, I need to go back down. Should I go after service? No. Industry should go after entire 80 services industry. Yes or no, But they have to make a suggestion. Something with Toby Toby is not gonna be any slower. They will get into. I decide. They're already doing the eyesight and experience. They're king of experience. Their king off what they're doing. Marketing site. They will expand. Writing. >> What does something We'll just launched a platform. Yes, that's right. The former executive from IBM. That's an interesting direction. They all have these platforms. Okay, so I got together to the Microsoft Amazon, Um, Google, the big clouds and then everybody else. A lot of discussion around consolidation. A lot of people say that the recession's coming next year. I doubt that. No, nos. The consolidation continues to happen. You can almost predict that. But where do you see the consolidation of you got some growth areas as you laid out cloud I t service is our p a experience based off where looks like where's the consolidation happening? If growth is happening, they're words to tell. >> It was happening. Really Like I see a lot in cyber security. I'm in Costa Rica, live in public. You have the scaler, the whole bunch of companies. So the next level of cos you always saw Sisko Bart, do your security followed has been buying aggressively companies. So secret is already going to a lot of consolidation. You're not seeing other people taking it, but in the I T services industry, you'll start seeing that you're already seeing that in the community space. That game is pretty much over right. Even the ember barred companies, even Net are barred companies and the currency. So I think console is always going to happen. People are picking up the right time. It's happening across the board. It's a great time to be an entrepreneur creator value. They come this public. So it's like I think it's cannot anymore very time. Look to your point where the decision happens or not. Nobody can predict. But if a chance now, it's best time to raise money. Build a company. >> Well, we do. I think the analysis, at least from my perspective, is looking at all the events we go to is the same theme comes up over and over. And Andy Jassy this heat of a tigress always talks about Old Garden new Guard. I think there's two sides of the streets developing old way in a new way, and I think the modern architect of the modern era of computer industry is coming, and it looks a lot different than it. Waas. So I think the consolidate is happening on those companies that didn't make the right bets, either technically or business model wise, for they took on too much technical debt and could not convert over to the cloud world or these really robust software environment. So I think consolidations from just just the passing of holder >> seems pretty set up for a member of the first men. First Main Computing was called mainframe Era, then, with clients Herrera and Kim, the club sodas 6 2009 13 years old, the new Errol called. Whatever the name, it will be something with a n mission in India that things would be so automated. That's what we have new area of computing, So that's I would like to see. So that's a new trick, this vendetta near turn. So even though we go through this >> chance all software software sales data 11. Yeah, it's interesting. And I think the opportunity, for starters is to build a new brands. His new branch would come out. Let's take an example of a company that but after our old incumbent space dying market share not not very attractive from a VC standpoint. From market space standpoint, Zoom Zoom went after Web conferencing, and they took on WebEx and portability. And they did it with a very simple formula. Be fast, be cloud native and go after that big market and just beat them on speed and simple >> experience. They give your greatest experience just on the Web, conferencing it and better than sky better than their backs better than anybody else in that market. Paid them with reward. Thanks, Vic. He had a good >> guy and he's very focused. He used clouds. Scale took the value proposition of WebEx. Get rid of all the other stuff brought its simple to video conference. And Dr Mantra is one >> happening. The A applying to air for 87 management. A ops A customer surveys. >> So this is what our Spurs could do. They can target big markets debt and go directly at either a specific differentiation. Whether it's experience or just a better mouse trap in this case could win, >> right? And one more thing we didn't talk about is where their underpants go after is the area number. Many of these abs are still enterprise abs. Nobody really focused on moving this enterprise after the club. Hollis Clubbers are still struggling with the thing. How can I move my workload number 10%. We're closing the club 90% still on track. So somebody needs to figure out how to migrate these clouds to the cloud really seamlessly. The Alps are gonna be born in the cloud club near the apse. So how do you address truckload in here? So there's enough opportunity to go after enterprise applications clouded your application. Yeah, >> I mean, I do buy the argument that they will still be on premises activity, but to your point will be stealing massive migration to the cloud either sunsetting absent being born the cloud or moving them over on Prem All in >> all the desert I keep telling the entree and follow the money. When there is a thing you look for it Is there a big market? Are people catering there? If people are dying and the old guard is there to your point and is that the new are you? God will happen. And if you can bet on the new guard in your experience, market will reward you. >> Where is the money? Follow the money. Worse. What do we follow? Show me where it is. Tell me where it is >> That all of the clothes, What is the big I mean, if you're not >> making money in the club for the cloud, you are a fool right now. If there any company on making out making in the club as a CEO, a board member, you need to think through it. Second automation whether you go r p a IittIe automation here to make money on, said his management. Whether it's from customer service to support the operation, you got to take the car. Start off it if you are Jesse ever today and you're not making birds that cementing. I see it mostly is that still don't want to take it back. They want to build empires. The message to see what's right, Nice. Either you do it or get out. Get the job to somebody that >> I hold a lot of sea cells and prayer. Preparing for reinforce Amazon's new security cloud security conference and overwhelmingly response from the sea. So's chief security officer is we are building stacks internally. When I asked him about multi cloud, you know what they said? Multi cloud is B s. I said, Why? Because Well, we have a secondary cloud, but I don't want to fork my development team. I want to keep my people focused on one cloud. It's Amazon. Go Amazon. It's azure. We stay with Azure. I don't wanna have three development teams. So this a trend to keep the stack building internally. That means they're investing in building their own text. Axe your thoughts on that >> look, I mean, that's again. There's no one size fits all. There will be some CEOs who want to have three different silos. Some people have a hard, gentle stack like I've seen companies. Right now. They write, the court wants it, compiles, and it's got an altar cloth. That's a new irritability you're not. We locate a stack for each of them. You're right. The court order to users and NATO service is but using the same court base. That's the whole The new startups are building it. If somebody's writing it like this, that's all we have. Thing is the CEO. So there's that. The news he always have to think through. How can you do? One court works on our clothes? >> Great. You do. Thank you for coming on again. Always great to get your commentary. I learned a lot from you as well. Appreciate it. I gotta ask the final question as you go around the VC circles. You don't need to mention any names you can if you want, but I want to get a taste of the market size of rounds, Seed Round A and B. What are hot rounds? What sizes of Siri's am seeing? Maur? No. 10,000,000? 15,000,000? Siri's >> A. >> Um >> Siri's bees are always harder to get than Siri's. A seeds. I always kind of easier. What's your take on the hot rounds that are hot right now. And what's the sizes of the >> very good question? So I'm in the series the most easy one, right? Your concept. But the seed sizes went up from 200 K to know mostly drones are 1,000,000 2 1,000,000 Most city says no oneto $10,000,000. So if you're a citizen calmly, you're not getting 10 to 15. Something's wrong because that become the norm because there's more easy money. It also helps entrepreneurs. You don't have to look for money. See, this beast are becoming $2025 $5,000,000 pounds, Siri sees. If you don't raise a $50,000,000 then that means you're in good company. So the minimum amount of dries 50,000,000 and CDC Then after that, you're really looking for expansions. $100,000,000 except >> you have private equity or secondary mortgage >> keys, market valuations, all the rent. So I tell entrepreneurs when there is an opportunity, if you have something, you can command the price. So if you're doing a serious be a $20,000,000 you should be commanding $100,000,000.150,000,000 dollars, 2,000,000 evaluations right if you're not other guys are getting that you're giving too much of your company, so you need to think through all of that. >> So serious bees at 100,000,000 >> good companies are much higher than that. That'll be 1 52 100 And again, this is a buyer's market. The underpinnings market. So he says, more money in the cash. Good players they're putting. Whether you have 1,000,000 revenue of 5,000,000 revenue, 10,000,000 series is the most hardest, but its commanding good premium >> good time to be in our prayers were with bubble. Always burst when it's a bite, mark it on the >> big money. Always start a company >> when the market busts. That's always my philosophy. Voodoo. Thanks for coming. I appreciate your insight. Always as usual. Great stuff way Do Sudhakar here on the Q investor friend of the Cube Entrepreneur, I'm John for your Thanks >> for watching. Thank you.