>>Oh, welcome back to theCube coverage of AWS re:Invent Executive Summit presented by Accenture. I'm John,  your host of theCube. We're joined by two great guests, Leo Barella, Chief Technology Officer of Takeda and Don Heiliger Managing Director at Accenture. Gentlemen, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you. Great to be here.  >>Last year, Karl Hick joined us to discuss Takeda's cloud journey. I know a lot's gone by the pandemic. Didn't go away as fast as we hoped, but we're starting to see visibility of the future with cloud at narrow and seeing cloud scale. Um, it's refactoring of business models, new opportunities. How's it gone? >>Well, I think it's a, it's going wonderful, as planned actually.  I can, I can share with you that there are definitely some lessons learned, uh, what the plan was quite structured. We definitely discovered that  maybe we should have actually had about 50% of our time, uh, in the planning for organizational change management and communication. And because we definitely, uh, want to, uh, be able to kind of explain why, uh, moving to cloud is actually important to, to our business. Uh, and so, so if you were to actually do it again, uh, I think we would have probably put a lot more time in communicating the value of the program and wild visibly. Now, uh, we're going to be able to move a lot faster than a, than a year ago. Uh, seeing that the community of the Qaeda is, uh, is already, you know, kind of come around, uh, to, to truly understand the value of, uh, of, uh, moving to cloud >>No last year, any Jessie gave up on stage the keys to success for the cloud journey, you guys were in the middle of it. Um, what was the big takeaway, um, on the, on, on your, your journey, because a lot of people are having real situational awareness and doubling down on successes, identifying what's not working and being real agile. This has been the big aha. What's the big aha moments you had, uh, this year? >>Well, I can tell you that. I say from the, the migration of our applications to cloud, which, which is basically table stakes for elimination of our data centers. So at the end of the program, we're likely gonna retain only few application in our data centers, but move more than 80% of our application workloads to cloud. What actually most excited about is, uh, is really our new strategy around data as a digital platform enabler. Uh, so from now on we're, we're really going to be focusing on the value stream of the Qaeda at the understanding of, of digital platforms that we actually want to able to, to, to further consolidate, um, and, um, uh, you know, and globally expand, uh, the, the, the technologies that we have, but old built on a data foundation, uh, that, that is actually governed across the community of the Qaeda. So data actually becomes the center of our strategy. Uh, and then digital is basically just a way for us to actually interact with data, uh, which includes applications, such as machine learning and AI, which we were heavily investing in. And, uh, and we definitely plan on now leveraging more and more. >>And just to real quick, before we go to a central for a second, I want you to double down on that journey dynamics because we're seeing and maybe reporting, and the theme here this year at reinvent is multiple workloads in the cloud changing workloads. You have evolution of workloads, data as the center of it. And then this cultural shifts where you got the, you know, these modern applications at the top of the stack. So you were AIS contributing. So you've got three major innovation theaters kind of exploding. I mean, this is pretty, I mean, one of those is, is mindblowing. Nevermind, all three. >>Yeah. And I can tell you that, uh, you know, um, I'd like to achieve further expand the circle, uh, beyond the Qaeda. We don't necessarily believe that the digital transformation is just about, I don't want enterprise. That is definitely a fundamental, uh, but the digital transformation is truly about, um, connecting the Qaeda as a digital, uh, pharmaceutical company to the overall healthcare ecosystem and be able to basically transact with our partners, uh, in real time, which is the reason why we actually put data at the center because at the end of the day, uh, when other partners wants to interact with our data, the should in real time be able to transact as if they were transacting on their own systems with our own data, especially DCPS and patients, >>Don your, your reaction, because a lot of learnings, new opportunities, you're at the center of essentially doing a lot of great work. We've been documented a lot of it as well. What's your reaction? >>I mean, I just to amplify a lot of Leo's comments already, I think if I, if I think back and on this journey with, with the Qaeda and AWS and Accenture as the power of three, I think, you know, leaning in to that has been a recipe for success. So as Leo said, we've definitely had some lessons learned, but you know, being there with this power of three, I think has been, uh, enabling us to, uh, attack those challenges that have, uh, that have come up and, and really gotten ahead of those. I think the other thing you talked about is this, um, you know, all these different things coming together, you know, before the pandemic, we had, uh, done done some research at Accenture that kind of had two groups of companies with the leader leaders and the laggards. And, uh, it showed, know the difference in revenue growth of the leaders that adopt technology and those that are falling behind and really, um, that gap has widened, but there's a new entrance of companies that have emerged, which is the, leapfroggers the ones that take advantage of all of the things that like AWS has to offer in terms of the AI capabilities, the data capabilities, the foundational elements that are enabling them to really do this compressed transformation journey in a much shorter timeline. >>I think that's been the element that, uh, you know, I think we know you and I have firsthand together with our AWS colleagues of us being able to really do this on a pace that I think has just been on, on the unseen or unmatched in the past. >>Well, we get to the innovation pilots you guys are doing. I want to just jump on that topic for a quick second time. If you don't mind, that's a really important point. I think the people who shifted to the cloud and replatformed, and then learned all the goodness and then refactored their businesses have done great. This notion of leapfrog is people who move and say, Hey, I don't need, I'm going to replatform and refactor at the same time, get the learnings from others. Okay. They get the best practice is so what's the scar tissue from all the pioneers who have been playing in the cloud, who got the benefits are also paving the path for others. This is actually a motivating, cultural and personal kind of impact motivation. People are happier. What's your guys' reaction to this culture of the cloud, this cloud reef, leapfrogging and refactoring. >>Yeah. I mean, uh, w what I'm saying, uh, and, and lovely, or your perspective on this too, but frankly, you know, I think, uh, you know, with, with the, uh, the war on talent right now, that's out there. I think, you know, companies are investing, whether they're leaders, whether they're leapfroggers in this digital, uh, you know, platform I think are attracting the best talent and actually making it a place where people can innovate. And I know we're going to talk about some of the innovations here in a second, but I think that is, um, you know, some, a way to differentiate, uh, right now in the marketplace, given everything that we're seeing around, uh, retention and attraction of talent. I mean, being able to be on the front edge of this is quite critical in any company's view, but, you know, especially when you're trying to attract the best talent in, in, uh, developing, uh, medicines that actually say lots, >>Leo jumping on this wave and moving leapfrogging, what's your perspective on this? >>Yeah. You know, I, I agree to, uh, you know, talent is that talent is key. Uh, and quite frankly, uh, you know, Takeda, we've been at, you know, pharmaceutical company for the past 240 years. Uh, and now what should you really, uh, you know, starting to become a digital, um, pharmaceutical, uh, power. Uh, and, and so, uh, part of the attractiveness of, uh, of joining Takeda for instance, is the fact that, uh, not only you actually get to, uh, you know, uh, be with a company that is investing heavily, uh, in, in, in digital re-skilling and actually training of people, but also you're connecting to the mission of, uh, of literally saving saving lives, right? So basically, uh, the, the, the connection of really this transformation to become a digital superpower, uh, and also, uh, the, the mission of, uh, of really finding new medicines were, uh, for people that actually experienced, you know, for instance, you know, order of disease, uh, it's quite exciting because it's, uh, it's the application of artificial intelligence machine learning, uh, where now you're actually really trying to find someone that is, that is struggling. Uh, and we're now actually connecting them to a cure that, that is drastically changing their lifestyle. >>It's interesting, the agile agility and the speed of innovation really kind of puts away the old analysis of like, what's the payback. I mean, if you, if you can't see the value right away, then you, then you don't know what you're doing. Basically people in the cloud that say I can contribute and leapfrog and get that value. This has been a big part of the business model. And one of the ways people are doing it is just getting involved, starting pilots, doing the projects. Um, so I'd like to have you guys share the project that you guys have got going on with nurse line. Can you share what you're trying to achieve and how has the cloud enabled you to, to innovate, but also capture the value and can, and can you see it, is there, is there a big analysis there's like a big payback it's like you're buying this 20 year project, or how do you guys look at this? >>I mean, the nimbleness of, uh, of cloud, uh, in our ability to come in and fail fast is what's extremely attractive to, uh, to, to the business, right? Because now all of a sudden we can quickly spin up a prototype. We can quickly actually put it out as a product and actually see how effective it is compared to traditional processes. Uh, so for instance, nurse line is actually what we, uh, it's one of the many, uh, innovation initiatives that we actually have going on, but specifically addressing, uh, one of our, um, uh, therapy areas, which is, uh, our plasma derived therapies, uh, plasma and other therapies is actually, uh, the supply chain actually really starts with, uh, the good wheel of a innovative individual like yourself, um, deciding to actually not donate plasma that eventually is being processed and fractionated to deliver medicines that are life savings in most cases is actually the, the literally life savings. >>Um, and, uh, so what we're trying to do is actually really make that experience as flawless as, uh, in, as seamless as possible. Uh, if you, if you, if you have ever experienced, you know, going into Amazon go, uh, where you kind of, you know, walk in, you get some groceries and walk out and don't pass through a register. And, uh, it's the same type of experience that we actually want to provide where, uh, in the past, um, when you're actually donating plasma, obviously it's a, it's a fairly invasive procedure because obviously you need to actually be in a, being a bad and your, your plasma is getting distracted, but there's a lot of paperwork that you need to actually fill in. And, uh, and what we actually did, uh, is now actually enabled that through a digital experience where a donor, uh, they do a short approaching the center can now actually initiate a chat with, uh, with Amazon connect the ILX. >>Uh, and then, uh, depending on the priority, uh, the donor is going to assign to a nurse that can actually be anywhere in the country. Uh, in all of a sudden the nurse can actually initiate, uh, through, through Amazon connect, um, a dialogue with the, you know, with, with the donor, uh, answering some of the questions in the, you know, in the regular questionnaire. So, so now all of a sudden the nurse is actually feeding up the people work for you. Uh, and, uh, and that is actually done through the initiation of a video call. Uh, and we're actually using chime, which is, again, a part of like, you know, the, the, you know, the, the Amazon AWS services. And then basically upon the, the completion of a, of the questionnaire that is action, analytic, Tronic signature, that has been applied to, um, you know, to the form. >>Uh, and so did, this is actually all happening while basically the person is actually walking through the center or walking into the center. Uh, and now all of a sudden, the only thing that they need to do is actually having a signed bat and, uh, and actually initiate the process of, uh, of plasma donation. So all of this is actually done through microservices. Uh, now everything that we do now is actually API enabled and, you know, obviously like many other companies right now, what I should really think about microservices and the usability of, of technology and, and reusable components. So we're extremely excited about the fact that now, uh, that experience can actually be carried on, uh, to, to other parts of the business and that, that, that can actually leverage these technologies. >>That's a great example of refactoring. What's next for you guys, a division Accenture, what's the plans? >>Well, again, uh, the Google got done. >>Well, I was going to say, I mean, I think, you know, we, we started touching on it, uh, experience, right. And, uh, how do we embed more technology experiences that we're all used to? I mean, you know, to get into some of the return to office, the easiest way for me to do some of the COVID testing has been using my, uh, my trusty iPhone. Right. And so, as, as Liam talked about that experience, uh, part of this beyond just the therapies and, and attracting donors is really key for any business to succeed and thrive. Um, yeah, I think it, you know, if you think about, um, you've got the natives that are really more technology-based, you've got the, the Peloton of the world that obviously have, you know, a platform, but also a product you're going to see product and specifically life sciences companies get more into platform enabled, uh, services that they can provide outside, uh, as a, uh, service to others. And I think, um, you know, the, the platform, uh, experience and the user experience, the donor experience, all that I'd say innovating in, in more use cases like, uh, some of the ones you just heard that's what's next, and being able to, uh, use those guys more even externally to, uh, to do even more good for society, >>Leah, your thoughts with that. >>Well, um, you know, what I should really just getting started, right? So it's not a, you know, this transformation is now cloud enabled, uh, but, but w we're systematically actually going through our value chain, uh, and trying to throw the, understand, uh, you know, our customers, you know, again, as a business, we don't actually sell directly to consumers. So we're, we're, we're basically brokering through, but primarily through CPS and hospitals, right, to basically be able to diagnose a disease that can actually be cured with our products. Uh, and we do feel that, uh, you know, there is actually a huge role that we can actually play because obviously we're are experts in the, of, uh, you know, of the disease that we actually cure with our products. So basically the interactions, like the one that I just described nurse line, uh, can actually be directed, uh, not only to the HCPs, but also to the patients, uh, and the access to communities. >>Uh, and so we want to actually continue to provide platforms by which, you know, people that experienced, you know, especially a rare disease can now actually already connect and, uh, and, and, and share, um, you know, th th the sense of community that, that the business is, is so, so very important, right? For someone that physically has, uh, you know, the diseases that we cure. Uh, so again, uh, I think that the systematic approach of API APIs, and actually making sure that the data is actually ready for say the FDA to actually consume, to accelerate the clinical trials or to an hospital to kind of already understand if there is maybe a clinical trial that can be applied to one of the patients that is, that is actually showing some, some side effects that, uh, you know, or, or symptoms that visibly can be cured with, you know, with our, with our products, I think is going to be, uh, you know, ultimately the, the value that we can provide to society. So >>You guys did a great work and a great example. And to me, and this really showcases the management philosophy of cloud and the culture of cloud, where you take something like connect, and you can refactor and reconfigure these existing resources in a way that creates value, that saves lives. And this is the new, this new playbook. Congratulations on an exceptional story. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the cube coverage rapist, reinvent executive summit presented by Accenture I'm John ferry, your host, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Reporter: From Chicago, it's The Cube. Covering Oracle transformation date 2020. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Denver, Colorado, it's theCUBE. Covering Commvault Go 2019. Brought to you by Commvault. (upbeat electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. We are covering Commvault Go '19 from Colorado and Stu and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guys back to theCUBE. We've got David Wigglesworth, a VP, now VP of Global Sales and Emerging Technologies at Commvault for what, a couple weeks now David? >> About a month and five days. >> About a month, and look who's back, it's Don Foster, VP of Storage Solutions, >> Great to be back. from the Keynote stage, welcome back Don. >> Thank you very much. >> Don, and we appreciate you bringing your own personal makeup artist, Sanjay Merchandandi, >> Yeah. >> A man of many skills. >> Indeed. (laughing) >> He really is. So if this whole, like, CEO thing doesn't work, he's clearly got a career in, you know, touch-up makeup. >> In makeup. >> Yeah, all right, so Wigs we'll start with you, you've got a cool nickname, so I got to use it. You've been here for about a month or so. This is a new Commvault. We've heard a lot in the last two days. A lot of news, a lot of leadership changes, obviously, go-to-market changes, new partner offerings, lots of stuff. Tell us first, before we dig in, what attracted you to Commvault? >> That's a pretty easy question to answer, it's the leadership. So, obviously I'm very familiar with Commvault. I've competed with them in my past career. Always been a very formidable competitor. When you walked into an account in my previous life and they said they had Commvault, you usually kind-of wiped your brow, and thought 'Oh okay, I've got to find something else here to talk about' but in all seriousness, for me it was, you know, when I first noticed in the News that Sanjay had come onboard. That peaked my interest, because obviously I knew Sanjay in my previous life at EMC and at VMware. And then when I watched Ricardo join the company, I was like, okay, this is something I really need to dig into. And so when I had the opportunity to meet with them and understand the direction of where they want to take the company, which was also already just a phenomenal IT organization, just a pillar in the IT community, with what the founders were able to do in relatively short amount of time. I was really excited to be able to come over and be a part of it. >> Wigs, you've got a emerging tech under your purview, tell us a little bit about what that's going to mean in your role. >> Right now it means I'm head big, right? So, by now, everyone's heard of the acquisition that was made. That was the other thing also that really interested me, was that technology because I really think that's where the market is going and I just felt like it was a great addition to the Commvault family of products. But it's a different technology. It's calling on a different set of folks with inside of an account and it's primarily an enterprise play. It can be a go-down-market a little bit, and enterprise's is kind of where I spent the last several years of my career, the last 20 or so (laughs) and so what we've decided to do is, because it's so different, we've decided for the time being, that we were going to create a special aid organization globally to go sell that solution so that our existing core sellers can focus on our existing set of products, right? That we can be a specialist organization that can help them with their customers, selling all of the additional emerging tech, right? And so, here at the show, we've obviously spent time talking about Hedvig. Metallic is another new technology for us. Now Metallic is going to handled differently, but as we continue to grow our emerging technologies from the traditional core Commvault family of products, that's what I'm going to be focused on. So it'll begin with Hedvig. >> So for the role that you're in now, you said about a month or so, are you bringing in a brand-new sales overlay team? Are you guys hiring like crazy or are some of the Commvault OG sales-guys-or-girls shifting up, we'll say? >> For the most part, we're bringing in new talent. We're looking for people that have a broad spectrum of the experience, right. Obviously someone with strong storage background, but also people that know virtualization code, people that understand containers. Those skillsets are really important to us. And so we're busy building out both an America sales team and also building out a Nemea sales team. And then my partner, I call him my partner-in-crime, Ediz. Ediz is building out our SE organization for the same two theaters. We'll start in those two theaters and then once we get the product fully integrated, which is part of what this guy is doing, once we get the product fully integrated, then I think you'll see us start to move into some other theaters. But right now we're going to focus on those. So yes, we're hiring. Right now my LinkedIn says, "David Wigglesworth, we're hiring." >> I think I saw that actually (laughing). >> So Don, we got to dig into some of the technology with you and Avinash yesterday. >> Absolutely. >> So we're now getting most of the way through the conference, bring us inside some of the conversations you're having. I know it was one of the biggest question, we had coming in was: 'All right The Hedvig that we knew, what's going to change, how does that fit?' Blurring the lines between primary and secondary and all those discussions we had with Sanjay. So take us to how people, are they kind of getting it at this point? And we know it's a journey for the integration and where it will ultimately end. >> Here's the real interesting thing, is probably in the first, I don't know, maybe 24 hours of having conversations with people from partner exchange all the way through to basically day one of actual Commvault Go, I probably had about four, maybe five if you count one of the service providers from Customers' Partners, come up and say, "Okay look, we looked at this tech about 18, 12 months ago and it was top of our list for what we wanted to do for building out this initiative, but there was a little bit too much risk." Going okay, do we really want to invest that much on a company that is maybe not the largest, most, I wouldn't want to say, reputable, but substantial in the marketplace. Will they be there in the future? And they're like, "Now that we know you've legitimized that business "and you want to keep that technology going forward, "this is fantastic. "We totally want to go and take a re-look back at this "and see how we can apply "that back into our infrastructure." So that's a great feedback to hear, and only serves as validation that when we look at the tech and say "This is good stuff," that we know it's good stuff and then of course the next piece is always, "All right, so now when can I start using this for Commvault and?" >> Right. >> That's when we start getting into the conversations of all right, we've got some integration work to do, the partners are asking when they can start to get access to sell it and again, we've got some work to do just to industrialize what we're doing and make the experience similar and then we'll start to roll it out in a considered fashion. >> I'm curious about the education piece. One of the customers that was onstage this morning, Sonic Healthcare, one of the things he said, on main stage and when he stopped by theCUBE a couple of hours ago, was, he said: "I wouldn't be in my job," and he runs disaster recovery and business continuity for Sonic Healthcare, "I wouldn't be in my job without Commvault's support." And I really appreciated and respected how he talked about some of the failures that they had. I always think failure is a good F-word if you leverage it in that way, (agreement) failure can mean success, if you learn from it. But the support organization and the training he talked about have been instrumental. Talk to us, guys, about how you're going to be partnering together to not just enable the big partners for those large enterprise accounts but maybe even the new sales-guys-and-girls that are coming, David, to your team to help everybody really understand how best to delivery a really stellar customer experience with something as exciting now as Hedvig is. >> You want to start, since you've been working on the integration. >> Yes, absolutely. First and foremost, I've been working with Avinash and his brother, Srinivas, and a lot of their engineering team. You really start to lock in things that are repeatable and scalable in nature, right? So that if we are going to open this up to more people, we do need to have repeatable nature of the building blocks for different use cases. So there's some core work we're doing on outlining, positioning, criteria, success, what the outcome needs to be, how that ties back in to hardware. Making sure as well that we understand how the messaging really does resonate and make sure that we're following and being focused on what our core targets are. Because a solution like what Hedvig offers, you can quickly start talking about a lot of different things that could be all things to many people, and we know that that's probably the worst decision to make, because you go super wide and don't go very deep at all and you end up losing the value prop. So identifying what the real core use cases are, getting deep in how it works, one with what the structure of it looks like, making it repeatable, that's the first and foremost thing, I think, for how we can help both Ediz and Wigs' sales team, and on the support side, doing very similar things but also doing some of the programmatic work of the integration and the experience. I talk about experience, like the sending of logs, the things that Matthew Magby from Sonic Healthcare was talking about how we really helped him. We want that same level of experience tied into where the software storage platform works as well. So there's some work to be done there. But as we get it done, the enablement on the support side, as you know, we deal with storage everyday anyway, so it's not like it's a big leap, but we do have to bring them into the mix of how the actual technology works, where it breaks, why it breaks, and those are all the things that we're really focused on in the next 90 days. >> Yeah, I think the real key for me as we talk to customers and also employees is I want them all to have the same experience with the new Hedvig solution that they experience with Commvault, right? And that goes from training our employees, really getting our SEs up to speed, so they can have a meaningful conversation to be able to get a customer to say, "Yeah, I think I'd like to speak with the Special Aid team. "Please have them give me a call." And also on the enablement for the clients, and having the customer understand that you can dial to 1-800 number for support, you can talk to somebody that can lead you down a path and give you the same quality of support you've been used to whether you're calling about a Hedvig solution or whether you're calling about a Commvault solution. >> Yeah, we talked about it a little yesterday, but the scale of the offering is a little bit different. >> It is. >> And therefore, that has some challenges on the support. And something that I'm sure Commvault is going to work on making that, it's not identical for every customer but a little bit more repeatable to be able to scale out that offering. >> I would agree, I would agree. The hardest thing to do is when you have a product that has so much functionality as Hedvig is to not lose focus and try to talk way too broad. What you've really got to do is, you've got to drill down with the client try to understand where their pinpoints are and because, quite frankly, the Hedvig product can do a lot of things. >> Don: Yeah, it can. >> Who's the ideal target customers, we talked about the theaters in which you're going to be launching first. Enterprise, we talked about that. Commvault has a significant presence in the Fortune 500, I think I read about three quarters of Commvault's revenue today comes from the Fortune 500, and Stu was saying yesterday about 80% of the revenue comes from the channel. So we look at Hedvig and the enterprise for a second, customers that are new to Commvault, those existing enterprise customers, GTM both? >> Yeah, I would say, the primary focus is going to be calling on the existent customer set. It's much easier to have a conversation with someone who knows who you are, even though you may be selling a new solution, at least they know who you are and they have a positive experience with us. So that, number one, we're going to focus on our probably our top 300 global accounts to start, as well as our top enterprise accounts. So there's probably, I would say, in the two theaters I mentioned earlier, there's probably about 35 hundred accounts that we're really going to focus on, and really try to make sure that we get in front of as many as we can and tell the story. I think that's where we have to start. Now, will there be greenfield opportunities? Yeah, I think quite frankly, that the Hedvig offering is different enough that it will enable us to go call on some of accounts that aren't doing business with Commvault today, maybe doing business with some of our competitors. So hopefully we can use that to actually win more traditional Commvault business. That's the plan. >> And the reason the enterprise really makes sense, the global accounts, is most larger companies have figured out how try solve the CapEx problem, right? >> David: Yeah. >> They've figured out just the economies of scale and how they grow and move, they can kind of handle that. What really still becomes a challenging piece is the operational efficiency. So, can I get the right solution at the right cost, but do it in a way that I'm actually making things more simplified? I'm not actually exploding more complexity into my environment. That's really where the Commvault data management platform and the Hedvig solution together really make a really solid story. >> All right, so Wigs, Don's team's really got their work cut out for them with all the integration work and know they've got a cadence and a roadmap. For you, obviously, new logos, there's got to be revenue goals. What are some of the key KPIs to measure how this becomes a successful acquisition? >> Well if my CEO is standing close by, he may be in earshot of this, right now it's trying to drive as much revenue as we can. But we also have to realize that we also have to build a pipeline, right? So right now my main focus here is I got to get a team in place that can go articulate the value of this solution to a client, right, number one, both technically and then working with Ediz to get the SE team in place, so that's number one. Number two, while we're doing that, we need to build a pipeline, right? When you make an investment, as you guys know, you're expected to start getting a return on that pretty quickly. And, it's nice, we inherited some nice pipeline with the acquisition. But with opportunity comes responsibility and so we've got to build that pipeline up and really get out in front of customers and find some opportunities that we can not only try to finish for this second half so we can hit all of our financial metrics, but really build pipeline for FY21, for us which starts in April. >> So the voice of the customer is, really can be really powerful. We've heard from a number of Commvault customers on our program yesterday, today on main stage. Is there a plan, Wigs, from your perspective, to get customers into some sort of data so that you have proof in the pudding to show those large enterprises and those theaters to help build that pipeline. Look at someone who's been an existing Commvault customer for five, 10 years or so, here's the, I don't want to say migration path, but maybe upgrade path to expand footprint in there. Here's how we did it, here's why this was ideal for this customer. Plans to get those early adopters to help you dial up the pipeline? >> So have you been reading my 'Go to market strategy' (laughing) 'cause you kind of you basically just read it. So yes, listen we are inheriting some nice accounts with Hedvig. They have some nice logos out there which is really good. And it's a good foundation for us to build upon. But we're very fortunate in that our core sellers have some really good relationships with some pretty large customers really in all different industries. And so, what we're doing right now is we're trying to identify probably about 10 accounts that make sense. That are really strong partners. They don't have to necessarily be really big customers, but just really strong partners that want to work together with us. And exactly what you just said, let's get in front of them, let's give them an opportunity to play with the technology and have them help us figure out, we think we have a pretty good idea what the go-to-marketing messaging should be for our existing customer base but certainly don't assume that we know everything. So have them help us build that strategy. So that is absolutely the plan. >> We've been hearing a lot about the last couple of days, of just, the openness of Commvault. Whether it's, I really thought it was cool with Metallic that the telemetry that partners can get to help customers, maybe even before a customer knows of an issue or an opportunity, but this telemetry, this 'let's learn from our customers,' couldn't agree as a marketer with you more about, we might think we have a great tagline, great messaging, but it's the users who need to validate that. What I'm hearing a lot over the last day and a half is how receptive Commvault is. We're listening to our customers, whether it's existing and comeback customers that Sanjay's team are dealing with, or even through partners. That message is loud and clear, and that's pretty important. >> Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I'll be honest with you, what's it's also been able to give us an opportunity to do is where we've had some relationships, quite frankly, that maybe we need to work a little harder on. Hedvig has given us that opportunity to kind of start those conversations as well. I think there's a lot of value, both on the existing opportunities as well as growing the business overall. >> Guys, nothing short of a lot of work ahead. But, pretty exciting stuff. We thank you both. Wigs, welcome again to Commvault. >> Thank you. >> Can't wait for next year. Going to bring some cool customers on the program. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Looking forward. The buzz is so amazing this year. So many customers have said, "I know you weren't here last year, but wow," and that's what they've said. I can't wait to see what this is going to be like next year. Thank you for having us on here. >> You've got to come back. >> Absolutely we will. >> Yeah? >> Yeah. >> All right, guys, thank you for joining Stu and I. >> Thank you both very much. >> Thank you. >> For Stu Miniman, I am Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE from Commvault Go '19. (upbeat electronic music)

>>Live from Denver, Colorado. It's the cube covering comm vault. Go 2019 brought to you by Combolt. >>Hey, you welcome back to the cubes coverage of combo go 19. We're in Colorado this year. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman and we have a couple of gents joining us alumni of the cube. We're gonna have a really spirited conversation. Please welcome Avinash locks from the CEO of Hedvig, one of our alumni and Don Foxer, the VP of storage solutions from combo and Ann Campbell. Oh gee, Dawn, you can say that, right? Yes, yes. So guys, just a little bit of news coming out with combo and Hedvig in the last month or so, you guys announced combo, announced they were acquiring Hedvig. We last had you on the cube of an Asha DockerCon 18 talking about had veg. And here we are, the announcement comes in September. Acquisitions already closed, lots of buzz, lots of excitement. I'll finish. Let's start with you. Why Convolt >>good question. Uh, first of all, thanks for having me. Uh, C, the way I look at it, I believe the enterprises are gravitating towards complete solutions. If you look at, uh, data management and backup Conwell's clearly the leader in that space, I don't have to say it, I think the analysts have all attested to it. We bring in a very complimentary set of tools that I think coupled together could be a complete solution for a large variety of workloads in the modern data center. And hence it makes it a ideal fit. And also the cultures from an engineering perspective, being Hedwig being a small company in Cornwall is also a small company. But you know, definitely big when compared to what we are at. Um, the cultures were more or less aligned in terms of the engineering culture, so to speak. And that makes it, uh, it made it a very natural choice. Do you know, feel comfortable going into a bigger company. So it worked out really well. >>So Don way we've seen the slides given in the keynote, they talked about the two halves of the brain, the storage management and the data management. Talked to us a little bit about of Hedwig plus con vault and how that goes together. Yeah, for sure. I mean, if you start to look at the, I mean, I guess you look at the marketplace today and you can tell that, uh, kind of the, the lines of delineation of what vendor a versus vendor B versus vendor seat is doing is completely blurred, right? And you'll see that with the attachment of secondary storage, you see that with way backup companies and are driving more towards sort of, you know, uh, the app dev space. And we really start to look at where, what Combolt's doing and, and, and I always say when we talked about the acquisition of Hedvig, it's accelerating the vision that we've had on be able to provide a really super scalable backend for where you can land information that Combalt protects, but the really interesting and cool part, but as you start to realize the tool set that it has within it, it also keeps us very relevant for the future, for where it, in the shifts with applications are going. >>Then it gives us a chance to really give that complete solution from giving the storage, taking the information as it's being created and storing it in a compliance form, storing it off to the cloud, maybe re-purposing it, reusing it into the future. So that's how this really starts to come together. You have the index in control and management, the understanding of what Combolt provides the data management and you have all the flexibility and control that the Hedvig platform provides and Miriam together just gives you that much more agility for how you can use that information, that data. I want to understand what being part of Convolt will be different for Hedvig. I think back to, I've been talking to you since the company came out of stealth. We're huge proponents of the learnings that the hyperscalers had. You came from Amazon and Facebook. Bringing that to the enterprise is great, but building something that is highly scalable versus frigging something that has repeatability and scalability through thousands of deployment, like convoluted have are two separate issues. So, you know, we'll, we'll being part of Convolt, how will that impact your business and your group? >>I think the latter is what is going to make it really exciting for us. I think we added a point where the product that we are bringing into the market or we are brought into the market, it's pretty mature and most of the customers would deploy it and use it. They've been extremely happy with the way it performs and the way it has performed over time. And I think with the combo, they have a larger footprint in the enterprise, large channel infrastructure already in place makes it a lot more easy to push the product out there into the market. And uh, we will be given and VR given complete autonomy plus you what it would it is at Viva doing. And obviously, you know, when you go into any other organization that has got to be some cross-pollination, which is also something that we will be pursuing. But these two things I think, uh, make it very exciting times for us. >>Didn't you? You mentioned the word acceleration a few minutes ago. I'm just wondering from your perspective being called on as long as you have, do you and maybe customers and partners see the Hedvig acquisition as? Sanjay was saying something that's trending on Twitter today is the hashtag new comm dolls. Yep. So it's actually interesting. At first when the acquisition was announced, there were some partners that were like, Hmm, okay, I need to think about this a little bit. And then as we kind of went through the talk track and sort of explain some of the power with the head of the platform delivers, there were a number of, there was suddenly aha. Like you could just tell the light bulb went off. I get where this is going. And then you see what we're doing from Convolt metallic as well, right? The the SAS offering. And you see how we're continuing to drive all of the innovation in that core product. I don't know if you want to call it a combo to Datto, but I do think we've entered a new era of what we're delivering back to our customers from a solutions perspective. And it's really exciting because you can talk to a customer about backup and give them the best solution in the world, but we can also start to expand and get a whole heck of a lot more strategic and help be thought leaders and some of these new spaces, >>well, some of the commentary that I was reading about the acquisition from analysts say, Hey, this is a potentially, this is going to give Combalt opened the door for a bigger presence in the surge defined space, a big market. Also elevate comm vault from a Tam perspective. Talk to us about those perspectives. As some of the analysts said, when Sanjay came onboard nine months ago, Hey combo, you really got to expand your market share and get a kick out of just cultivating the large enterprises. How do you see that? >>Yeah, sure. I mean that's the easiest place to point to the secondary storage market place, right? So the secondary to storage marketplace, it's double digits in billions of market share. And that can be anything from things like object storage. It could just be scale-out, NAS. It could be, um, it could be, you know, companies like Cohesity and others that have a platform that build out secondary storage is a whole slew of people that play in that space. Uh, it also goes back to like appliances in a whole form of other storage types that are purpose built. So the secondary storage is a fairly broad sort of brush that people paint. You know, something is not running production workloads. But the interesting thing is, and this is kind of something that when the we've talked about we see those lines of private production or primary, secondary, tertiary, that's starting to really blur out. >>Um, so that market share that is in secondary storage, that market share that attaches also to object for where your, where we're going from a even a scale out backup perspective. You know, those are I going to be target areas that we can start to give customers solutions into in a really integrated and complete way. Uh, one of the customer areas that I've heard from Convolt that I'm curious if it might be applicable for your, for your team of an option is the service providers, you know, they've sold and you talk about how many end users actually leverage Convolt technology. It's like almost an order of magnitude more when you go through the service providers and when you talk about scalability and the requirements that that seems to be like it could be a fit for a. >>Yeah, you could even think of someone who is running a private cloud in their own on premise data center as being a service provider for their own internal consumption. Grateful folks working in tunnel. I guess going to an MSB or even do a larger service providers is an extrapolation of the same thing. So it'll obviously make it a very natural fit because you know, everyone understands the cap X game. Operational efficiency is the harder problem to actually crack. And with systems like this you can actually address that very simplistically. And it also allows them to kind of scale with their growth in a very effortless fashion. So it makes an agile mix a lot of natural sense. >>And that's an interesting point cause that aligns well too with the way the Combalt software themselves also attack attaches, right? We do a much better job of running that value back to the larger enterprise or those that are seeing more of that operational efficiency challenge. So it's another reason why this is a great intersection or you know, great, great marriage of the two technologies, um, what want to speak with, I think we talked about Sanjay about he of being at puppet worked a lot with dev ops in that environment. I heard from Convolt COO that five of the 45 developers that are here doing whiteboard session come from Hedvig. So speak a little bit of that, that customer base, the developer community microservices, you know, that kind of modern >>I think we have a, a demo session. I don't know what time, but we're going to give you a comprehensive overview of how, uh, you know, kind of Kubernetes orchestrated containers works with Hedwig. I think if people are here, they're hearing me, they should definitely check it out. And, uh, if you look at some of our larger customers, they deploy us in environments where they want to have practically zero touch provisioning capability, right? Which means that you got your infrastructure ought to be completely programmable, which bitches, what the DevOps movement is all about. And uh, the comprehensive set of APIs that be exposed for control and data plane, it actually makes that pipe dream a reality. >>Let's talk a little bit about the integrations. I mentioned a minute ago. The announcement was in September, the acquisitions close and you guys have already really started to buckle down into the integration between the technologies. Can you talk to us about that? And then I'd love to get your perspective on existing had big customers, you know, what door does this open for them? >>So for an existing customers, they are very happy because they now are convinced that we have a larger footprint and we have a lot more people to help to help support them as they grow and they don't have this field anymore as to how perhaps a small startup would be able to support them. So that fear factor goes away. So they're all very relieved on that front. Second, from an integration perspective, uh, there's a lot of things that we are working on from a technological perspective that is getting deep into the roadmap. I dunno if he can talk much about it at this point, but a non-technology we're all well integrated in, we are all Commonwealth employees now Gunwale badges come while emails so well integrated at this point. >>I guess maybe from a high level perspective, what we probably can say is probably number one, we want to make sure the experiences across both products are merged. So it truly views as you know, one one true company vault and providing that experience. And that's everything from installation to support to how we communicate and manage the, the ongoing relationship with the customer. So that's one there's always work to do there. Right? And the next core piece is just how we can make the two technologies basically make, you know, the had big platform, a part of the combo data platform and make sure those two integrations are as tight as possible. And that will be a longterm path, right? Because as that becomes more integrated, there's going to be new ideas, new innovations, and she's gonna come up with a whole lot of new things that we could potentially do that will meet the needs for the customer. And I think the third piece that ties back into the dev ops conversation is we've got two really solid API stacks. So bringing those together is going to be important in the future as well. So that it really is a crisp and clean sort of programmable infrastructure for customers from how the storage is delivered all the way to how it's managed and potentially even deleted out the back end. >>Well, with how quickly we're seeing Convolt move in the last nine months, I mean this year there's so much innovation from leadership changes in sales and marketing, new GTM routes, et cetera. What can, what can combo customers expect in terms of, I know you can't divulge too much on the roadmap, but you know with faster, shorter cycles of development. >>So I'll go first. I mean I think as you look at the sort of sort of where maybe the easiest way to answers is we're staying in front of where the market is heading and we're making sure we're providing solutions that can get customers to solve those challenges when they hit them. We don't want them to have to hit those challenges, have to then struggle, fight, figure out what it is they can do while everyone in their market moves past them. We want to be there with a solution that answers some of those challenges that day. They hit them more preemptive, preemptive, absolutely more preempted to react. That's a perfect way to put it. Thank you. So that's part of what they can expect from us and we do a lot of research and working with our customers and understanding where their future needs are, where they're going. We spend a lot of time with industry experts and analysts too for what they're seeing across the globe. Obviously we can only go so far and travel and talk to so many people. So we leveraged the collective of the industry to also kind of have a pretty good gauge and I'll say we've got leaders like Amash and Sanjay that are also awesome at just kind of having a really good pulse on where the industry is going and what we should be doing as a company. >>I'm just getting pickled in so too early for me to answer how that roadmap may Michio or how customers may perceive. But I think, uh, what should be very encouraging is that we bring so many, so much more capabilities. The enterprise has always been in this mindset of procuring things with a single throat to choke and this makes it very easy for them. >>What's the question of done for you is some of the things that Sue and I have talked about with guests today is from a partner perspective, there's been a lot of positive feedback in Navarro community we talked with and think we're talking with Rick de Blasio tomorrow. Want to understand, you know, some of the new partner programs, how are his Convolt traditional channel, your VARs, but also all the way up to your. Their reaction to all of the changes and the acceleration that Cohmad is driving is particularly with respect to head veg. >>For the most part it's been incredibly positive and even though the technology partner side, it's, it's fairly positive and also it forces us to have a much closer conversation on. All right, let's continue to talk about how we're successful together in the marketplace because we understand that our customers will need more than one vendor, more than two vendors to be successful as they kind of tackle the challenges that are in front of them. So you know, we're not going to stop our innovation and partnering and technology ecosystem development because that's so important to allow the customer to have the choice. We know that we're only one of many players and so we want to give them the choice to use whatever they need. We just want to help them control and manage the data >>and help them maybe simplify their operations. And especially as you know, we don't, we don't go to any event without talking about multi-cloud. It's the world that most businesses are living in. And, and I'll say, if you're not you Willy, how can what combat is doing now, not just with Hedvig but also just with some of the structural changes and directions that you guys have made it help customers embrace multicloud actually be able to protect, recover that data and >>you know, shift, sift insights from it. Yeah, sure. Please. All right, so multi-cloud, so first it starts off in tying in the ecosystems of the different cloud players offer, right? You need to be able to sort the support their platforms. You need to be able to continue to abstract out the information, the data itself that may be tied to an application or tied to a platform and give that level of portability. It's actually something that Hedvig does a fantastic job on as well and when you start to have that level of portability, well then it becomes a heck of a lot easier to either use other platforms within that cloud or a separate cloud or something you might homegrown build yourself as. That's part of the big value prop. We're doing all of these things not to have the best infrastructure but to make it easier for customers to use that data. So that means integrating and being strong partners to cloud players. It means continuing to be a really technological leader in how you can support all the platforms and services they offer and really allow the data to rise to the top as far as the value perspective goes and that's really where we continue to drive our innovation, at least on the on the data management side. >>That's a good Commonwealth perspective. The Hedvig perspective comes from a different angle. We always look at data portability, be it multicloud or even be at hybrid via met a lot of customers who went down the hybrid pot and then had to pull back. And when you pull back, you don't want to be in a situation where you're rewriting your entire application because your data is persisted in a very different way. But providing that data portability with an abstraction that sits between the application and the underlying physical infrastructure, I think is going to be a very important solution to take. You know, view often in this mix and hence together it becomes a comprehensive solution. >>Well guys, we thank you so much for stopping by joining soon and be on the program telling us a little bit more about this exciting new venture that you guys are going in together and we look forward to hearing more about it as it unfolds and maybe getting some customers on the cube next year. Absolutely. All right. Thank you. Thanks for Sumeta, man. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube from convo. Go 19.

(upbeat techno music) >> Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high-tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> And we are back at VMworld 2019, here in San Francisco, along with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls. Welcome to theCUBE here, continuing our coverage here at Moscone. And we're now joined by Don Murawski, who is the manager of Servers and Storage at Wendy's. Don, glad to have you on theCUBE. >> Glad to be here. >> Before we leave, you're going to have to settle this with Stu. He's very upset about the change in menu. That number eight is no longer number eight. >> I can't do anything about that-- >> Well, perhaps we're going to look into that a little bit later on. And what you can do something about is is tell us about your portfolio of services. What you do in terms of, what you are managing in terms of storage, in terms of servers at Wendy's. >> Right, right, yeah. As you know, IT has, especially in the food industry, has become huge, especially mobile app, mobile ordering. You know, DoorDash. Order your food and have it delivered to you. You know, massive business. Massive financial for the company too. How that plays for me is, managing the infrastructure that it runs on. Whether it's an AWS or Azure. A lot of that stuff is on-prem still. So we have to manage a huge amount of volume with a very dense environment. For a hyper-converged shop, Nutanix is part of that. Cohesity is a huge part of our system now. Two data centers. One in Atlanta, one in Dublin, Ohio. So, it's quite quite a big effort. >> You mentioned on-prem, off-prem. About what's your split right now, and are you-- >> I'd say 30:70. >> Okay. >> Yeah, 30 off, 70 on. >> And how is that going to change, you think, over the next three, four, or five years? >> Oh it's changing, drastically. Cost. You know, CapEx, OpEx. It depends where our model's going to be at. Right now, we're more CapEx. So when that goes to OpEx, you'll see a lot more cloud. So right now, 70:30. 70 on-prems, 30 off. >> All right, Don, we talked to so many companies today, and what is that digital transformation they're going through? You talk about app and mobile. It's like boy, I'm reading articles about, how do we make sure that your food delivery person, doesn't eat a lot of french fries, before it gets to you? Maybe speak a little about the ripple effect that has to, your group and IT, as to, you know, we always say fast food. What's faster than walking up to the counter and you know... You guys don't have it sitting under the warmers, of course. They put that together and make it. But it's now transforming that fast food business. >> Yeah, it was touching the back-end servers So it's important that those are properly tuned, properly functioning, on legacy, sometimes legacy hardware. So between cloud and on-prem, it's been a challenge. And we're still working through that challenge. A lot of our developers are in-house. We actually have a big presence for developing right now for our own app. We actually develop our own app and websites. So a lot of that is tied into the movement of, more into cloud technology, than on-prem technology. So right now, like I said, it's 70:30. But it's still a challenge. >> And what is it about that when you say it's a challenge, I mean. So we've drilled down on that a little bit. >> It's just dealing with, not (mumbles) With on-prem you can't scale like you can with AWS or Azure. You can scale 100 times down an Azure bot, auto-scaling. On-prem we can't do that quite yet. We're getting there. So that's still a challenge, because a lot of the information still hasn't touched, on-prem. On-prem databases, which are getting older too, so to speak. So it's still a challenge. >> Don, when you talk to companies, you talk about that whole modernization. And the keynote this morning. We're talking about hybrid-cloud. We talked about multi-cloud. HCI is often a piece of that modernization, but how do you look at how you scale and change things in your data center, versus the public cloud. Is it making progress? Is it limiting at all? >> It's slow progress, slower than we want. More like into, getting rid of the VMs, go containerization. That's a lot of containerization that's happening now with Kubernetes. We have a DevOps apartment we actually just created internally to do that type of work. It's just taking a little bit longer than we anticipated. >> Yeah, and (mumbles) obviously Kubernetes is big discussion here. >> Right. >> How long has your group been using it? >> Not a year. >> Why do you use it? What is it? What's the value to your organization? >> Click a button and you've got a server. It's auto-scaling. So instead of taking two hours to build a server, or three, it's taking two minutes. I think we actually timed a Linux server build in two and a half minutes. The fact that you've got a small workforce too. I mean, we're advertising jobs. Things are what they are. They're pretty stagnant. So we have to make do with the technology that's out there. And Kubernetes is a big part of our future, infrastructure. >> But oftentimes Kubernetes is something that will help me if I want to move something from my data center to the cloud or between clouds or like, do you use that use case yet? Or -- >> Not yet, not yet, we're getting there. >> Okay. >> Yes. Slower progress than we'd want, but yeah, we're getting there. >> All right, when you're living in this multifaceted environment, bring us inside your data management. What's that like today, what's working, what challenges do you have? >> I'll tell you what it was like. It was a nightmare.(laughs) >> Yeah. That'd be awful. (laughing) >> It was a complete nightmare. Multiple vendors. Very complex. Now we're trying to simplify things, make it more dense with (mumbles) Cohesity. It's been a big part for the past year. We moved all our backups at Cohesity. So Cohesity is basically backup and DR now. I don't use it like secondary storage. I have other storage for that, smaller storage units. So it's... Two years ago, we had lost our primary storage and basically took down the company. And living through trying to get your data back for hours and hours and hours, and working. I had guys working 100 hours a week for two, three weeks. And (mumbles) didn't see their families. So making something that is easy to use, manageable, and recoverable, was huge. So take the complexity out and add the ease administration. And that's what we did with Cohesity. >> Yeah, and you're painting really maybe not a worst-case scenario but an awful-case scenario. >> It was an awful case scenario. >> Yeah. So I mean, disaster recovery was a disaster for you. It sounds like that. >> It was. >> So is that what drove you to the Cohesity decision? >> It was, that was a big factor. The fact that I need to be able replicate this stuff to another location, that's one thing. That's what everybody says. But can you actually recover it if it's in the other location. No, we couldn't. Now we can, and I actually prove that through a POC. So yeah, it was a big factor. The fact that people had to sacrifice weekends and I mean literally, work all night, multiple nights, to get things back up, to get the business back up. >> So what do you say to your colleagues or counterparts out there, maybe who haven't, maybe done this kind of spadework that you guys from -- >> I'd try to turn down your critical servers and see if you can recover 'em. You know, take them down and see if you can get 'em back up. Test your DR, because if you don't, it's going to come back to bite ya, and it did. We got most of our data back, but there's some things we didn't get back. We had to recover, I think we had to retire a couple systems that were homegrown systems that were written by a developer back in the day, that's no longer there, we couldn't get it back. We had to send whole departments home, because of this. So I would say, test it. Make sure it works. And make sure your vendor, whoever you pick, is standing by you too. That's a big thing, it's that relationship with the vendor. We don't pick it because it works, we do. But we also pick it because of the relationship with the vendor. Are they going to be there when all, you know what, breaks loose. >> Right. >> Some do, some don't. >> Who's your friend right? >> Who's your friend. >> So Don, you've gotten your title. It's Server and Storage. But you're talking about the Kubernetes, and modern multi-cloud environment-- >> Don: We're small shop. We're small IT shop. So out of my group, DevOps actually spun out. So now we're kind of a infrastructure DevOps team That DevOps is a whole separate thing now because of my team. >> Yeah but (mumbles) what I guess I wanted to get it right is that, was that mostly internally training and going through the model. >> Yeah, it was. >> Bring us through some of those, what worked well, what was a little bit of a pain point. >> Pain points, It took a year to get one application working. But now it's working, you see the value in it. Because I was like, this is a waste of time. We don't scale that much. But however when you do, it sure is nice to build a server like I said, two minutes, that's a huge factor. You know, it was coming, that seemed to be the trend. DevOps, I mean, we wouldn't have DevOps jobs three, four years ago. Well now there's DevOps admin jobs. So it was coming, it was just a matter of time. >> You've been using Cohesity for about a year now, you said. >> A year. >> You talked about where you're using it. Give us a little bit looking forward. Where do you go with Cohesity. What would you like to see them do. >> Yeah, I think a big point is going to be, especially from a (mumble) infrastructure platform, will be more of an Azure footprint. Shrinking the on-prem data center. So Cohesity is going to play a huge role. We still have a lot of 2008 servers. And 2008 goes out of, end of life, in a few months. There's no way I'm going to retire 200+ servers by January. It's not going to be humanly possible. So a lot of that stuff I had to get moved to Azure for support, and Cohesity's going to play a big role in moving that and protecting it. So yeah, I'd say a good path for Cohesity in the future for us. >> So when I brought you on and we talked about the menu, item number eight, that you said you can't help Stu with, is that right? What is menu item number eight? >> It was one of the chicken specialties (mumbles) they have. >> So however, if that, we are very supportive. >> Don: I like that. >> We have our $2 Frosty donation for the year. >> Don: It's good. >> So a Frosty a day right? A free Frosty a day. >> That's right. >> So, we are supportive. >> That's good. >> If you can work on that number eight, maybe-- >> Don: I'll work on it. >> Maybe we can be even more supportive. >> All right John. >> Thanks Don. >> I appreciate it. >> Absolutely, this belongs to Gabe Leon, by the way, on our crew. Just got to give Gabe a shout-out there, for helping us out. Back with more here on theCUBE. You're watching this live, VMworld San Francisco here, 2019.

>> From York Town Heights, New York, it's theCUBE covering IBM Cloud Analyst Summit, brought to you by IBM. (techy music) >> Hi, welcome back, I'm Peter Burris of theCUBE, and we're having conversations here at the IBM Innovation Day at the Thomas J. Watson Research Lab in York Town Heights, New York. We've got a great conversation. Don Bolia is the general manager of cloud developer services at IBM, welcome to theCUBE, Don. >> Thank you very much. >> Or should I say welcome back to theCUBE? >> (chuckling) Yes, thank you. >> So, Don, we were talking with one of your colleagues, Hillery Hunter, who's the CTO-- >> Mm-hm. >> Of here at the cloud infrastructure team, and about the fact that everybody's talking about the rate of growth of data, and nobody's really discussing the rate of growth of software, which is perhaps even more important, ultimately, to business. What is that rate of growth look like, and how is it related to the role of cloud? >> Yeah, so it's a great question. I mean, with my role as kind of owner of our platform services from the cloud perspective, one of the things we've noticed over the last probably five or 10 years is just a massive rate and pace change with respect to iteration on the software development cycle. So, they started with mobile, I would say, and then has moved to cloud since then, where you know, the expectation is everything is updating all the time, you know, everyday, all times of the day. Within our own Kubernetes and container service, as an example, we push over 500 updates a week to that software stack on behalf of our customers, and so I think there's a rate and pace of how things are changing from that perspective, but then there's also the fact that everybody's leveraging those services to then build the next generation of software. So, in our case we have a set of base services that I provide for things like containers that then the Watson team, for example, uses to build their microservices, which are then, you know, realized as machine learning and other types of services that they provide. So, you see the stacking of software, if you will, from you know, the high iteration rate at the bottom all the way to the next level and the next level, and the ability to unlock value now is something that happens in, you know, hours in some cases, or a couple of days, whereas before just provisioning the software would've taken months, and so we're really seeing just a whole change in the way people can develop things and how quickly they can get to the end result. >> Now, we're here at the Thomas J. Watson Research Lab, and downstairs is this wall of all IBM fellows, and one of them E.F. Codd, the famous originator of database and the role that SQL played, et cetera-- >> Mm-hm. >> In relational database technology. He wrote a seminal paper back in the early 1970s about how the notion of developer was going to evolve over time, and he might've been a little aggressive in thinking that we were going to end up with these citizens developers than we actually happened, but we are seeing the role of developer changing, and we are seeing new classes of professionals become more developer-like. >> Mm-hm. >> How is that relationship changing the way that we think of developer services that you serve? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I think, first of all, software is sort of invading almost every single industry, and so, you know, people have got to have some amount of those skills to be able to function in kind of the optimal way for whatever industry they're in. So, what we're seeing is that as we've built more and more foundational services, the act of actually creating something new is more about stitching together, composing, orchestrating a set of things, as opposed to really building from scratch everything from the ground up, and you know, things like our Watson services are a great example, right? The ability to tap into something like that with a couple lines of code in an hour, as opposed to what would've taken, you know, months, years, whatever, and even really, frankly, been out of the reach of most developers to begin with is now something you can have somebody come in and do, you know, with a fairly low level of skill and get a good result on the outside. >> So, we've got more demand for code as we move to digital business, more people participating in that process, cloud also enables paths, a lot of new classes of tools that are going to increase the productivity-- >> Yep. >> Including automated code generation. How is the process, how is that tool set evolving, especially as it pertains to the cloud? >> Yeah, so I think one of the mantras of cloud is automation, and in order to standardize and automate, that's really how you get to the kind of scale that we would see in, say, a public cloud like the IBM cloud. So, it really is kind of a fundamental premise of anything you do has to be something that you automate, and so we've seen a whole class of tools, to your points, really start to emerge, which allow people to get that kind of, you know, automated capability. So, nobody thinks of, for example, creating a, you know, a build pipeline these days without using a set of tools. You know, often they're opensource tools, and there's a lot of choice within that whole spectrum of tools, and we support a bunch of different varieties, but you would never think today of having a build process that isn't totally automated, right, that can't be instantly recreated. Even the whole process of how you deploy code in a cloud these days is sort of an assumption that you can destroy that and restart at any point, and in order to do that, you really need the automation behind that, so I think it's a base premise now. I don't think you can really be at the velocity that people are expecting out of software without having a totally automated process to go through that. >> So, any digital business strategy presumes that data's an asset, and things that are related to data are assets, including software in many... Well, software is data when you come right down to it. >> Mm-hm. >> And we want to exploit that data and generate new sources of value out of that data, and that's one of the predicates of digital business, but at the same time we also want to protect those attributes of data-- >> Mm-hm. >> That are our IP, our enterprise's distinction. As we move forward with software, how do we reconcile that tension between more openness and generating a community that's capable of improving things, while at the same time ensuring that we've got good control over our IP where it actually does create a business differentiation? >> Now, that's right, and you're right, data's king. So, you know, the software can do, you know, a set of things, but most of the time it's operating on a set of that data, and that data's where the true value that you can unlock comes from. Our policy, from an IBM perspective, has always been that, you know, your data is yours, and to your point, this IP that you may want to protect, and we try to give you the tools to do that, and so a lot of our philosophy, within the cloud in particular, is around things like Bring Your Own Key, where you have control of the keys that encrypt that data that's in the cloud. In fact, we would like to be totally out of that loop, quite frankly, and have it be something that is controlled by our clients, and that they can, you know, get the value they're looking for, and so we'll never have a situation where one of our services is, you know, using or acting on data that is really, you know, not ours to use, and so that's been a fundamental premise of the cloud as we go forward, and again, we continue to provide a set of tools that really let you manage that, and to your point, you know, not everything gets managed at the same level. Some things are highly protected, and therefore have, you know, layers and layers of security policy around them, and there's other examples where, you know, you're relatively able to make that open through a set of APIs, for example, and let everybody have access it. From our perspective, though, that's really a client choice, and so for us it's about giving the right tools so that they can do the job they need to do. >> February 2019, San Francisco, IBM's taking over San Francisco with the IBM THINK show. What types of conversations are you looking forward to having with customers? What excites you about the 2019 version? >> Yeah, so I mean it's a great venue. It is absolutely, you know, something that I look forward to every year. I know my team looks forward to it, as well. I mean, the amount of interaction we get with clients... I mean, it's really all about the client stories, so you know, what are they able to do, in my case, with our cloud services. What can I learn about what they've done, and how, you know, can we then leverage that to make our services better, and so, you know, to me it's all about, you know, what you can learn from others, and it's a great form to be able to do that and there's a lot of great things that, you know, you can dive deep on. You get access to a lot of the IBM technical experts, so I have all of my, you know, fellows and distinguished engineers there, you know, on hand, and just great conversations. There's always great insights that you get from it, highly recommend it. >> Don Bolia, IBM general manager of cloud developer services, thanks very much for being on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Once again, we'll be back from IBM Innovation Day here at Thomas J. Watson Research Center in York Town Heights, talk to you soon. (techy music)

why from nashville tennessee it's the hue covering CommVault go 2018 brought to you by CommVault welcome back we're a few miles down the road from the Jack Daniel's distillery I believe there's some whiskey flowing on the show floor here but we're gonna finish a couple more interviews you're watching the cube I'm Stu minimun this is Keith Townsend happy to welcome back to the program Don Foster is the senior director of solutions marketing with Conn volt Don great to see you hey great thanks for the invite all right so been really good energy at the show these second time at the program it's my first you've got 2000 of the loyal supporters here lots of breakouts you know the pavilions been hopping labs and everything yeah how's the show been for you so far I think it's been incredible I mean first hats off to our partners and customers for coming the buzz is great this year we try to do something maybe a little bit different than in years past and really make it all about the partner ecosystem and about how solutions are more than just combo software it's CommVault together with our partners really get the outcomes what the customers want so we've really integrated everything in as best we possibly can from the content and the theaters and who's doing presentations and even how we do some of the collaboration yeah one of the themes we've been poking at a bit is like okay what's the same and what's different about CommVault you've got obviously you know trusted brand got a lot of existing customers but you know this is not the CommVault of five years ago it was a really broad set of announcements this week yeah I want want you to say what what's been anything surprise you as to kind of what is resonating which things people are getting most excited about I'm sure yesterday when you showed off that bezel and a bunch of people were booing and I you're like really the bezels it's a bunch of geeks here yeah so you know sometimes the flashy lights still you know get us going for sure well like there's always a few things that kind of surprise you and some things that really don't I mean you say what's same what's different you know there's a few terms that we use one of them being powerful simplicity the fact that the power that comma offers for customers from technology perspective you know that's always a mainstay and I think our customers know that our partners absolutely know that and the fact that we can deliver these these solutions for our customers that are really interesting an integrated way is always powerful the simplicity side I don't know even listening to Al not too long ago talking about hey we need to make things more simplified that's really resonating well and it's not just a dashboard or an interface but it's all the automation that's coming behind the scenes that's really starting to change people's idea in my and their minds and I mean we know we know the customers are expecting more me a Bob and I'll talk to battle Don look on that on the keynote stage our partners are expecting more so we need to deliver more as well so I mean those are some really interesting things on the bezel you know it's interesting appliances you never think it's like people don't want to see the equipment I mean that people see servers and their server racks every day but you bring a piece of equipment you stick in our podium and everyone wants to touch it take a selfie with it it's the new appliance look I applaud your team for not you know smoke and you know music and everything and you know here's the unveiling yeah your software company and therefore one of the deployment models might be we make it nice and easy here it is that's great and everything yeah you have little design people do their thing but at the end of the day I don't want to think about it it's most of the stuff sticking in racks in my data center or in the cloud aren't things that I need to worry about right right I mean it appliance is cool but guess what what we're doing with partners like HP and Cisco on building even larger scale and appliance that's just as school if not maybe cooler so I mean it's just it's great kind of showcase that sort of a spectrum of what we can do for our customers so let's talk about the part of the ecosystem for the size so you guys have a really big show floor great announcements with Cisco HPE but 500 partners doing a partner portion of the show what are some of the under-the-radar announcements or even trends that you've seen that customers are excited about yeah sure so actually I just before I came out here I was a TBC with one of our large worldwide partners and one of the things we were talking about they're super excited about the CommVault activate a product and then did the portfolio of applications that were launching and they basically look you guys absolutely nailed it it's kind of the duh moment you know in fact the partner said three years ago we were trying to tell our customers it's it's the data stupid like the data it's that's what's most important deer is cool but it's the data and when they heard this came out it's a whole nother route for them to talk to customers about how they can do things smarter around their data without trying to sell them on necessarily swapping out back and recovery first so let's really understand what your environment looks like and I'm hearing a lot of buzz from our partner community just on how cool what this might be able to do for them and how they're building their business but more importantly the customers are starting to realize hey GDP are just isn't in an EU thing the California just brought their own regulations we're gonna see that probably come to a state near year before you know it so you're gonna have to have a need to act and really maintain and control that data that's really what activate does right going beyond just metadata and giving giving companies a chance to really understand what they have and how they might need to act against it either to meet their compliance requirements or maybe just be smarter with data yeah I love that be smarter with data I think I was saying you know half the customers that they're starting with compliance because that's something we have to do but then there's the opportunities as to what can I do with the data a great example in the keynote it was like oh well I can actually use intelligence too how do I call the data yes you want to save a lot of data but I don't necessarily need to save all the data and that could save me millions of dollars when I do that so yeah I mean the power of data I think we are still in the early days of you know how does CommVault help customers through that that's so I mean it's it's really kind of in the breath of how we crawl information and what we sort of unlock as we do that right so you probably saw we talked about the four dimensional index the 40 index and it's real it's to call it 4d just to try to make it sound super technical but there really are multiple dimensions that we pull together from information and the meta information and where it comes from and whatnot that's all super important from a starting point but once you start working through a review process you've been vent oriented you want to be able to start adding in some tags maybe some entity detail on where and how that fits the organization and then from that you can get deeper into context and content so the content indexing adding and those are tributes being able to really start to align different different sets of data against one another and then the next piece which we do a little bit ourselves and we also work with partners like lucid works like folks like brain space we can start driving context from that information so before we've even talked about moving or storing data we're crawling this information and really giving customers the chance to solve what really is probably a top-three issue for CIOs and that's what they do do I have where is it and is there value in it or is there risk in it or what is is what I don't know about my data bigger than I realize and that's what this helps to unlock and solve for so I think now we're at the beginning of just the beginning of where infrastructure traditional infrastructure companies like con vault are bleeding into data management specifically with 4d indexing where we're providing data outside of the traditional or what's the file size the data was created centered on recover backing up recovering today that actually providing business context and value that application is v's can pick up are you starting to see any movement in is v-space to leveraging the data that's provided by index 40 so we're definitely seeing interest you know so when people think about data they tend to go down this idea of a data Lake and I've talked I'm sure you guys have heard this oh yeah we just throw the data Lake we throw the data lake well what are you throwing in the data Lake now that's a good question we don't know what's in the data Lake anymore and it becomes a data swamp you probably heard those level of stories right well if you don't know what's in there if the integrity of the information then it becomes a major challenge well a lot of the partners the is V is the folks that want to build and work on solutions outside of you know on top of the data they need to know that they have a good source of truth from what they're working from so being able to showcase that we have sort of that virtual data layer the fact that we can crawl data it's not even under our own management and then be able to offer that information back up to another another partner that really starts to you know sparks and some ideas or maybe what could be next so action we're still working through that we still have some things to do around software development kits and make it easier for our partners to build and get that ecosystem going but it's absolutely right down the alley what we were we want to take this all right so Don I hear your data Lake and the data swamp and when we go to the world of multi cloud and edge components really what we get into is the data ocean because there are currents and weather patterns and you know challenges unforeseen the edge of the map you know don't go there things like that it's one of the things you know I've been looking at the last couple of years when I look at companies like comm vault is you know how do you play in the multi cloud world we had a good chat with AWS I stopped by the Microsoft Azure booth here and as things like multi cloud and edge computing fit in you know weirdoes comm bolt fit so on the cloud space I mean it really starts with how you're actually leveraging or moving data or using data in the cloud right and it seems seems minor but if you're not really using the cloud natively if you're not storing data in a way that an s3 blob expects it and you don't have the index behind it if you're just passing it out into containers so you're not really putting that rigor to what that information is then you start to lose a lot of the downstream capability and so taking advantage of all these different services that are inside of the cloud so I mean this is back in 2008 you know 2007 when AWS was starting to really hit cloud computing you started hearing about Microsoft and Microsoft as you're starting up we realized that we wanted to work with these blob based storage devices and from there we realized all right if we're gonna let customers go to the cloud we want to make sure that once their data goes there there's never a reason for them necessarily to have to pull it back let's be able to help them orchestrate the resource utilization and in order for us to do that that data has to be natively accessible really easy right there in that cloud so that's kind of been our vision so as we've supported AWS and there are many services as we supported Microsoft Azure there many services as we're working through in supporting Google cloud platform Oracle cloud we're tying into those back-end services to make sure that that native access is always available and the red thread there is really the way CommVault indexes it very similar what the 40 index is from an activate perspective that red thread is how we can help manage and information across those clouds so it gives customers an ability to know all right it can be in cold storage but I still know where it is what it's meant for and at any point in time I can use it to drive more insight or pull it up into a production compute resource in the cloud all right don't want to give you the final word as we're coming towards the end of our broadcast here CommVault go what what main takeaway you want customers to have when they think about CommVault and think about this event great so I want them to walk away and realize okay the CommVault maybe they thought we were you know five years ago or the cow bought that maybe they're hearing from other people that isn't from us give us a chance and really take a look the things we're doing around AI the way we're working in a delivery of cloud environments the fact that we have that reliability that dependability and all the modern technologies that you're looking for I bet they will be surprised if they just give us a chance they'll see that the power in our software has become something that's really simple and will actually help them get faster to achieve their outcomes than if they looked at buying point solutions and trying to piece it together on their own so that's really well that's really what we're looking for is start to learn and understand at the new con volt is I bet will surprise them all right Don Foster really appreciate you giving us the update we appreciate the opportunity to be able to dig in with your customers in this broad ecosystem for Keith Townsend Tom's to minimas we'll be doing a wrap-up here in a second and thanks so much for watching the Q [Music]

>> Announcer: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's TheCUBE, covering PentahoWorld 2017. Brought to you by Hitachi Vantara. >> Welcome back to sunny Orlando everybody. This is TheCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and this is PentahoWorld, #PWorld17. Don DeLoach here, he's the co-chair of the midwest IoT council. Thanks so much for coming on TheCUBE. >> Good to be here. >> So you've just written a new book. I got it right in my hot off the presses in my hands. The Future of IoT, leveraging the shift to a data-centric world. Can you see that okay? Alright, great, how's that, you got that? Well congratulations on getting the book done. >> Thanks. >> It's like, the closest a male can come to having a baby, I guess. But, so, it's fantastic. Let's start with sort of the premise of the book. What, why'd you write it? >> Sure, I'll give you the short version, 'cause that in and of itself could go on forever. I'm a data guy by background. And for the last five or six years, I've really been passionate about IoT. And the two converged with a focus on data, but it was kind of ahead of where most people in IoT were, because they were mostly focused on sensor technology and communications, and to a limited extent, the workflow. So I kind of developed this thesis around where I thought the market was going to go. And I would have this conversation over and over and over, but it wasn't really sticking and so I decided maybe I should write a book to talk about it and it took me forever to write the book 'cause fundamentally I didn't know what I was doing. Fortunately, I was able to eventually bring on a couple of co-authors and collectively we were able to get the book written and we published it in May of this year. >> And give us the premise, how would you summarize? >> So the central thesis of the book is that the market is going to shift from a focus on IoT enabled products like a smart refrigerator or a low-fat fryer or a turbine in a factory or a power plant or whatever. It's going to shift from the IoT enabled products to the IoT enabled enterprise. If you look at the Harvard Business Review article that Jim Heppelmann and Michael Porter did in 2014, they talked about the progression from products to smart products to smart, connected products, to product systems, to system of systems. We've largely been focused on smart, connected products, or as I would call IoT enabled products. And most of the technology vendors have focused their efforts on helping the lighting vendor or the refrigerator vendor or whatever IoT enable their product. But when that moves to mass adoption of IoT, if you're the CIO or the CEO of SeaLand or Disney or Walmart or whatever, you're not going to want to be a company that has 100,000 IoT enabled products. You're going to want to be an IoT enabled company. And the difference is really all around data primacy and how that data is treated. So, right now, most of the data goes from the IoT enabled product to the product provider. And they tell you what data you can get. But that, if you look at the progression, it's almost mathematically impossible that that is sustainable because company, organizations are going to want to take my, like let's just say we're talking about a fast food restaurant. They're going to want to take the data from the low-fat fryer and the data from the refrigerator or the shake machine or the lighting system or whatever, and they're going to want to look at it in the context of the other data. And they're going to also want to combine it with their point-of-sale or crew scheduling, or inventory and then if they're smart, they'll start to even pull in external data, like pedestrian traffic or street traffic or microweather or whatever, and they'll create a much richer signature. And then, it comes down to governance, where I want to create this enriched data set, and then propagate it to the right constituent in the right time in the right way. So you still give the product provider back the data that they want, and there's nothing that precludes you from doing that. And you give the low-fat fryer provider the data that they want, but you give your regional and corporate offices a different view of the same data, and you give the FDA or your supply chain partner, it's still the same atomic data, but what you're doing is you're separating the creation of the data from the consumption of the data, and that's where you gain maximum leverage, and that's really the thesis of the book. >> It's data, great summary by the way, so it's data in context, and the context of the low-fat fryer is going to be different than the workflow within that retail operation. >> Yeah, that's right and again, this is where, the product providers have initially kind of pushed back because they feel like they have stickiness and loyalty that's bred out of that link. But, first of all, that's going to change. So if you're Walmart or a major concern and you say, "I'm going to do a lighting RFP," and there's 10 vendors that say, "Hey, we want to compete for this," and six of 'em will allow Walmart to control the data, and four say, "No, we have to control the data," their list just went to six. They're just not going to put up with that. >> Dave: Period, the end, absolutely. >> That's right. So if the product providers are smart, they're going to get ahead of this and say, "Look, I get where the market's going. "We're going to need to give you control of the data, "but I'm going to ask for a contract that says "I'm going to get the data I'm already getting, "'cause I need to get that, and you want me to get that. "But number two, I'm going to recognize that "they can give, Walmart can give me my data back, "but enrich it and contextualize it "so I get better data back." So everybody can win, but it's all about the right architecture. >> Well and the product guys going to have the Trojan horse strategy of getting in when nobody was really looking. >> Don: That's right. >> And okay, so they've got there. Do you envision, Don, a point at which the Walmart might say, "No, that's our data "and you don't get it." >> Um, not really- >> or is there going to be a quid pro quo? >> and here's why. The argument that the product providers have made all along is, almost in a condescending way sometimes, although not intentionally condescending, it's been, look, we're selling you this low-fat fryer for your fast food restaurant. And you say you want the data, but you know, we had a team of people who are experts in this. Leave that to us, we'll analyze the data and we'll give you back what you need. Now, there's some truth to the fact that they should know their products better than anybody, and if I'm the fast food chain, I want them to get that data so that they can continually analyze and help me do my job better. They just don't have to get that data at my expense. There are ways to cooperatively work this, but again, it comes back to just the right architecture. So what we call the first receiver is in essence, setting up an abstraction close to the point of the ingestion of all this data. Upon which it's cleansed, enriched, and then propagated again to the right constituent in the right time in the right way. And by the way, I would add, with the right security considerations, and with the right data privacy considerations, 'cause like, if you look around the market now, things like GEP are in Europe and what we've seen in the US just in the wake of the elections and everything around how data is treated, privacy concerns are going to be huge. So if you don't know how to treat the data in the context of how it needs to be leveraged, you're going to lose that leverage of the data. >> Well, plus the widget guys are going to say "Look, we have to do predictive maintenance "on those devices and you want us to do that." You know, they say follow the money. Let's follow the data. So, what's the data flow look like in your mind? You got these edge devices. >> Yep, physical or virtual. Doesn't have to be a physical edge. Although, in a lot of cases, there are good reasons why you'd want a physical edge, but there's nothing technologically that says you have to have a physical edge. >> Elaborate on that, would you? What do you mean by virtual? >> Sure, so let's say I have a server inside a retail outfit. And it's collecting all of my IoT data and consolidating it and persisting it into a data store and then propagating it to a variety of constituents. That would be creating the first receiver in the physical edge. There's nothing that says that that edge device can't grab that data, but then persist it in a distributed Amazon cloud instance, or a Rackspace instance or whatever. It doesn't actually need to be persisted physically on the edge, but there's no reason it can't either. >> Okay, now I understand that now. So the guys at Wikibon, which is a sort of sister company to TheCUBE, have envisioned this three tiered data model where you've got the devices at the edge where real-time activity's going on, real-time analytics, and then you've got this sort of aggregation point, I guess call it a gateway. And then you've got, and that's as I say, aggregation of all these edge devices. And then you've got the cloud where the heavy modeling is done. It could be your private cloud or your public cloud. So does that three tier model make sense to you? >> Yeah, so what you're describing as the first tier is actually the sensor layer. The gateway layer that you're describing, in the book would be characterized as the first receiver. It's basically an edge tier that is augmented to persist and enrich the data and then apply the proper governance to it. But what I would argue is, in reality, I mean, your reference architecture is spot-on. But if you actually take that one step further, it's actually an n-tier architecture. Because there's no reason why the data doesn't go from the ten franchise stores, to the regional headquarters, to the country headquarters, to the corporate headquarters, and every step along the way, including the edge, you're going to see certain types of analytics and computational work done. I'll put a plug for my friends at Hitachi Lumada in on this, you know, there's like 700 horizontal IoT platforms out there. There aren't going to be 700 winners. There's going to be probably eight to 10, and that's only because the different specific verticals will provide for more winners than it would be if it was just one like a search engine. But, the winners are going to have to have an extensible architecture that is, will ultimately allow enterprises to do the very things I'm talking about doing. And so there are a number out there, but one of the things, and Rob Tiffany, who's the CTO of Lumada, I think has a really good handle on his team on an architecture that is really plausible for accomplishing this as the market migrates into the future. >> And that architecture's got to be very flexible, not just elastic, but sometimes we use the word plastic, plasticity, being able to go in any direction. >> Well, sure, up to and including the use of digital twins and avatars and the logic that goes along with that and the ability to spin something up and spin something down gives you that flexibility that you as an enterprise, especially the larger the enterprise, the more important that becomes, need. >> How much of the data, Don, at that edge do you think will be persisted, two part question? It's not all going to be persisted, is it? Isn't that too expensive? Is it necessary to persist all of that data? >> Well, no. So this is where, you'll hear the notion of data exhaust. What that really means is, let's just say I'm instrumenting every room in this hotel and each room has six different sensors in it and I'm taking a reading once a second. The ratio of inconsequential to consequential data is probably going to be over 99 to one. So it doesn't really make sense to persist that data and it sure as hell doesn't make sense to take that data and push it into a cloud where I spend more to reduce the value of the payload. That's just dumb. But what will happen is that, there are two things, one, I think people will see the value in locally persisting the data that has value, the consequential data, and doing that in a way that's stored at least for some period of time so you can run the type of edge analytics that might benefit from having that persisted store. The other thing that I think will happen, and this is, I don't talk much, I talk a little bit about it in the book, but there's this whole notion where when we get to the volumes of data that we really talk about where IoT will go by like 2025, it's going to push the physical limitations of how we can accommodate that. So people will begin to use techniques like developing statistical metadata models that are a highly accurate metadata representation of the entirety of the data set, but probably in about one percent of the space that's queryable and suitable for machine learning where it's going to enable you to do what you just physically couldn't do before. So that's a little bit into the future, but there are people doing some fabulous work on that right now and that'll creep into the overall lexicon over time. >> Is that a lightweight digital twin that gives you substantially the same insight? >> It could augment the digital twin in ways that allow you to stand up digital twins where you might not be able to before. The thing that, the example that most people would know about are, like in the Apache ecosystem, there are toolsets like SnappyData that are basically doing approximation, but they're doing it via sampling. And that is a step in that direction, but what you're looking for is very high value approximation that doesn't lose the outlier. So like in IoT, one of the things you normally are looking for is where am I going to pick up on anomalous behavior? Well if I'm using a sample set, and I'm only taking 15%, I by definition am going to lose a lot of that anomalous behavior. So it has to be a holistic representation of the data, but what happens is that that data is transformed into statistics that can be queryable as if it was the atomic data set, but what you're getting is a very high value approximation in a fraction of the space and time and resources. >> Ok, but that's not sampling. >> No, it's statistical metadata. There are, there's a, my last company had developed a thing that we called approximate query, and it was based on that exact set of patents around the formation of a statistical metadata model. It just so happens it's absolutely suited for where IoT is going. It's kind of, IoT isn't really there yet. People are still trying to figure out the edge in its most basic forms, but the sheer weight of the data and the progression of the market is going to force people to be innovative in how they look at some of these things. Just like, if you look at things like privacy, right now, people think in terms of anonymization. And that's, basically, I'm going to de-link data contextually where I'm going to effectively lose the linkages to the context in order to conform with data privacy. But there are techniques, like if you look at GDCAR, their techniques, within certain safe harbors, that allow you to pseudonymize the data where you can actually relink it under certain conditions. And there are some smart people out there solving these problems. That's where the market's going to go, it's just going to get there over time. And what I would also add to this equation is, at the end of the day, right now, the concepts that are in the book about the first receiver and the create, the abstraction of the creation of the data from the consumption of the data, look, it's a pretty basic thing, but it's the type of shift that is going to be required for enterprises to truly leverage the data. The things about statistical metadata and pseudonymization, pseudonymization will come before the statistical metadata. But the market forces are going to drive more and more into those areas, but you got to walk before you run. Right now, most people still have silos, which is interesting, because when you think about the whole notion of the internet of things, it infers that it's this exploitation of understanding the state of physical assets in a very broad based environment. And yet, the funny thing is, most IoT devices are silos that emulate M2M, sort of peer to peer networks just using the internet as a communication vehicle. But that'll change. >> Right, and that's really again, back to the premise of the book. We're going from these individual products, where all the data is locked into the product silo, to this digital fabric, that is an enterprise context, not a product context. >> That's right and if you go to the toolsets that Pentaho offers, the analytic toolsets. Let's just say, now that I've got this rich data set, assuming I'm following basic architectural principles so that I can leverage the maximum amount of data, that now gives me the ability to use these type of toolsets to do far better operational analytics to know what's going on, far better forensic analysis and investigative analytics to mine through the date and do root cause analysis, far better predictive analytics and prescriptive analytics to figure out what will go on, and ultimately feed the machine learning algorithms ultimately to get to in essence, the living organism, the adaptive systems that are continuously changing and adapting to circumstances. That's kind of the Holy Grail. >> You mentioned Hitachi Vantara before. I'm curious what your thoughts are on the Hitachi, you know, two years ago, we saw the acquisition, said, okay, now what? And you know, on paper it sounded good, and now it starts to come together, it starts to make more sense. You know, storage is going to the cloud. HDS says, alright, well we got this Hitachi relationship. But what do you make of that? How do you assess it, and where do you see it going? >> First of all, I actually think the moves that they've done are good. And I would not say that if I didn't think it. I'd just find a politically correct way not to say that. But I do think it's good. So they created the Hitachi Insight Group about a year and a half ago, and now that's been folded into Hitachin Vantara, alongside HDS and Pentaho and I think that it's a fairly logical set of elements coming together. I think they're going down the right path. In full disclosure, I worked for Hitachi Data Systems from '91 til '94, so it's not like I'm a recent employee of them, it's 25 years ago, but my experience with Hitachi corporate and the way they approach things has been unlike a lot of really super large companies, who may be super large, but may not be the best engineers, or may not always get everything done so well, Hitachi's a really formidable organization. And I think what they're doing with Pentaho and HDS and the Insight Group and specifically Lumada, is well thought out and I'm optimistic about where they're going. And by the way, they won't be the only winner in the equation. There's going to be eight or nine different key players, but they'll, I would not short them whatsoever. I have high hopes for them. >> The TAM is enormous. Normally, Hitachi eventually gets to where it wants to go. It's a very thoughtful company. I've been watching them for 30 years. But to a lot of people, the Pentaho and the Insight's play make a lot of sense, and then HDS, you used to work for HDS, lot of infrastructure still, lot of hardware, but a relationship with Hitachi Limited, that is quite strong, where do you see that fit, that third piece of the stool? >> So, this is where there's a few companies that have unique advantages, with Hitachi being one of them. Because if you think about IoT, IoT is the intersection of information technology and operational technology. So it's one thing to say, "I know how to build a database." or "I can build machine learning algorithms," or whatever. It's another thing to say, "I know how to build trains "or CAT scans or smart city lighting systems." And the domain expertise married with the technology delivers a set of capabilities that you can't match without that domain expertise. And, I mean, if you even just reduce it down to artificial intelligence and machine learning, you get an expert ML or AI guy, and they're only as good as the limits of their domain expertise. So that's why, and again, that's why I go back to the comparison to search engines, where there's going to be like, there's Google and maybe Yahoo. There's probably going to be more platform winners because the vertical expertise is going to be very, very important, but there's not going to be 700 of 'em. But Hitachi has an advantage that they bring to the table, 'cause they have very deep roots in energy, in medical equipment, in transportation. All of that will manifest itself in what they're doing in a big way, I think. >> Okay, so, but a lot of the things that you described, and help me understand this, are Hitachi Limited. Now of course, Hitachi Data Systems started as, National Advance Systems was a distribution arm for Hitachi IT products. >> Don: Right, good for you, not many people remember. >> I'm old. So, like I said, I had a 30 year history with this company. Do you foresee that that, and by the way, interestingly, was often criticized back when you were working for HDS, it was like, it's still a distribution hub, but in the last decade, HDS has become much more of a contributor to the innovation and the product strategy and so forth. Having said that, it seems to me advantageous if some of those things you discussed, the trains, the medical equipment, can start flowing back through HDS. I'm not sure if that's explicitly the plan. I didn't necessarily hear that, but it sort of has to, right? >> Well, I'm not privy to those discussions, so it would be conjecture on my part. >> Let's opine, but right, doesn't that make sense? >> Don: It makes perfect sense. >> Because, I mean HDS for years was just this storage silo. And then storage became a very uninteresting business, and credit to Hitachi for pivoting. But it seems to me that they could really, and they probably have a, I had Brian Householder on earlier I wish I had explored this more with him. But it just seems, the question for them is, okay, how are you going to tap those really diverse businesses. I mean, it's a business like a GE or a Siemens. I mean, it's very broad based. >> Well, again, conjecture on my part, but one way I would do it would be to start using Lumada in the various operations, the domain-specific operations right now with Hitachi. Whether they plan to do that or not, I'm not sure of. I've heard that they probably will. >> That's a data play, obviously, right? >> Well it's a platform play. And it's enabling technology that should augment what's already going on in the various elements of Hitachi. Again, I'm, this is conjecture on my part. But you asked, let's just go with this. I would say that makes a lot of sense. I'd be surprised if they don't do that. And I think in the process of doing that, you start to crosspollinate that expertise that gives you a unique advantage. It goes back to if you have unique advantages, you can choose to exploit them or not. Very few companies have the set of unique advantages that somebody like Hitachi has in terms of their engineering and massive reach into so many, you know, Hitachi, GE, Siemens, these are companies that have big reach to the extent that they exploit them or not. One of the things about Hitachi that's different than almost anybody though is they have all this domain expertise, but they've been in the technology-specific business for a long time as well, making computers. And so, they actually already have the internal expertise to crosspollinate, but you know, whether they do it or not, time will tell. >> Well, but it's interesting to watch the big whales, the horses in the track, if you will. Certainly GE has made a lot of noise, like, okay, we're a software company. And now you're seeing, wow, that's not so easy, and then again, I'm sanguine about GE. I think eventually they'll get there. And then you see IBM's got their sort of IoT division. They're bringing in people. Another company with a lot of IT expertise. Not a lot of OT expertise. And then you see Hitachi, who's actually got both. Siemens I don't know as well, but presumably, they're more OT than IT and so you would think that if you had to evaluate the companies' positions, that Hitachi's in a unique position. Certainly have a lot of software. We'll see if they can leverage that in the data play, obviously Pentaho is a key piece of that. >> One would assume, yeah for sure. No, I mean, I again, I think, I'm very optimistic about their future. I think very highly of the people I know inside that I think are playing a role here. You know, it's not like there aren't people at GE that I think highly of, but listen, you know, San Ramon was something that was spun up recently. Hitachi's been doing this for years and years and years. You know, so different players have different capabilities, but Hitachi seems to have sort of a holistic set of capabilities that they can bring together and to date, I've been very impressed with how they've been going about it. And especially with the architecture that they're bringing to bear with Lumada. >> Okay, the book is The Future of IoT, leveraging the shift to a data-centric world. Don DeLoach, and you had a co-author here as well. >> I had two co-authors. One is Wael Elrifai from Pentaho, Hitachi Vantara and the other is Emil Berthelsen, a Gartner analyst who was with Machina Research and then Gartner acquired them and Emil has stayed on with them. Both of them great guys and we wouldn't have this book if it weren't for the three of us together. I never would have pulled this off on my own, so it's a collective work. >> Don DeLoach, great having you on TheCUBE. Thanks very much for coming on. Alright, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back. This is PentahoWorld 2017, and this is TheCUBE. Be right back.

>> Narrator: Live from Washington, DC, it's The Cube covering .NEXT conference brought to you by Nutanix. >> We're back at Nutanix .NEXT. This is The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my longtime co-host Stu Miniman. Don Mims is here as the director of infrastructure and virtualization at Baylor, Scott, & White Health. Don, great to see you. Thanks for comin' on The Cube. >> Thanks for havin' me. I appreciate it bein' here, it's very nice. >> Yeah, so Baylor, Scott, & White Health, we weren't familiar with that before we met you. Tell us a little bit about the organization. >> Sure. So, Baylor, Scott & White Health is based in Dallas, Texas. We've recently had, over the last couple of years, a merger opportunity. We merged with Scott & White that is down in Temple, Texas which is a little farther east, or west and south of Dallas. And we've grown our organization to around 40 hospitals, over 500 clinics and we continue to grow and make strives in the healthcare space. >> Dallas is booming. I mean, obviously-- >> It is. World-class city with world-class healthcare. Talk about some of the things that are happening in healthcare that are sort of driving your strategy, the challenges that you guys are having. I mean, obviously, there's, there's EMR, there's meaningful use, there's, you know, changes in the Affordable Care Act, all that stuff. That and or other things that are really driving strategy and creating challenges for you. >> Yeah, one of the biggest things that we're doin' right now is movin' into the digital space. So, the patient, centered focus being in a traditional brick and mortar facility, is shifting. Patients wants quicker access to data, quicker access to physicians. So, bein' able to create solutions that can deliver a physician and patient experience, possibly from a mobile device, a phone, a tablet, a PC, is where we're movin' the market towards. So, some of the solutions that we're building and delivering are enabling a faster delivery of technology for healthcare. >> You know, sort of, when you think about last decade, docs were, sort of, averse, somewhat to technology. >> You're right. >> And mobile really changed that, hasn't it? >> It has. >> How has that affected your, the backend infrastructures? >> So, it definitely has to be more robust. As you're delivering content now, video, web chats, things like that that have to be reliable because now patient outcomes depend on that type of data delivery, the backend has to be available more than ever at this time. >> So it's kind, you actually kind of have an IOT use case in the hospitals, right? >> We're gettin' there. >> And then when you start pushin' video around it's got to be very challenging. Now you're also doing some projects around DNA sequencing. Is that right? >> We are. It's very exciting space. We recently delivered a solution on Nutanix to create a DNA sequencing platform that hasn't been done before as we know it. The vendor, this was the first time for the vendor, a first time for Baylor, and it has been very successful implantation and it's, it's a very robust system today. >> Don, can you bring us inside a little bit? What were the requirements you were lookin' for? What led you down the path to Nutanix? Had you been usin' them before or was this the first-use case? >> It's actually not the first-use case. The project actually started out as a, it was a migration. The customer was using a hosted solution. It was slow. Their sequencing data was taking a long time. Their results were being held up because of the way their architecture was set up. So, we decided to bring it in-house and put it on a platform that was kind of new to us and try to deliver it with better speed and it definitely has done that. >> And does that trickle down to, you know, what does that mean to the cost of solutions? I mean, I think we all know it, you know, DNA sequencing used to take a long time and a lot of money and it's now, you know, kind of, do a swab type things and it's done a lot less. >> Yeah, so with this platform, the customer, the physician is now not only going to use this platform to get results quicker, we're also going to start potentially offering this as a service to others and help other physicians and other clinics also get their results quicker as well. So, it's going to grow over time to just an in-house solution to maybe something more broad-scale. >> So you saw the keynotes this morning. They're pushin' a lot of information at us. Obviously, we, Stew and I talked about it in our open. Nutanix, a couple years ago, sort of pivoted beyond hyper-coverged infrastructure, tryin' to position as cloud even though they still a lot of hyper-converged infrastructure, let's face it. But, as a consumer, as a practitioner, how does that message relate to you? You have a lot of vendors tryin' to sell to you. You got cloud, different cloud strategies, cloud, cloud, cloud, cloud, cloud. Dev-ops, containters. So, do you, what do you want to see from a company like Nutanix? Do you want them to, like, stick to their knitting, hey just give me hyper-converged infrastructure, or do you want them to take you on, on a journey? I wonder if you could add some color to that. >> Sure, and where you're goin' with that question is exactly the reason we chose this solution because it's way bigger than just a hyper-converge, you know, solution. That was, for me, that was kind of the first thing. That's what got us hooked and then the innovation that's come, you know, since then, and things that we've learned about the product and where they're goin' with automation, migration strategies of current workloads, the ease of management, the cloud strategy, the partnerships that they're makin' now with other, with other partners. That's really what I like to see and that continued growth is why we chose this product 'cause they have that vision and it's really appealing. >> And so, do you, are you using public cloud today? >> We are in a very limited manner. As you can imagine, health care and personal health information in the cloud can be kind of scary to some people so we have started that roadmap and we continue to try to expand that as we go. >> Is it fair to say that as an infrastructure professional that you're, you're, can I summarize your infrastructure strategy is you want, like, to, substantially mimic the attributes of a public cloud where it makes sense on prem. Is that fair? >> That's exactly what we're tryin' to do. Speed to delivery, server provisioning, resiliency of the infrastructure, invisible infrastructure, you might have heard that term today or over the past few days. That's what we're tryin' to accomplish. >> Self-service or no? >> Self-service internally right now. So, my own staff are going to use the automation internally to deliver quicker and then eventually as we perfect that, we'll let our customers self-service. >> So be as cloud-like as possible but not too cloud-like too soon? >> Exactly. >> So do you feel as though, as an IT pro, that you are on the path to achieving that vision? >> I do. We are, at Baylor, we're breaking new grounds with what we've done recently and I think the longterm vision to where we want to be is going to be, is going to be big over the next few years. >> So we get, we get into a lot of discussions with folks in our community that are, you know, kind of, cloud bigots, I'll call them and they say, "Hey, the vendors like Nutanix "and even more so vendors like IBM and HPE "and, you know, EMC, and their customers "will never be able to achieve what Amazon achieves." My question to you is, and you probably agree with that, I mean, Amazon's ahead of you, I bet. But, I would hope. But, how do you feel about that? Is that okay? Do you lose sleep over that or do you feel as though, "Hey, we've made so much progress." I wonder if you could comment on that as an IT pro. >> Yeah, sure. So, briefly on that topic, Amazon's business model is a little different than the industry that we're in, right? >> Yeah, sure. >> And, we're not really in the technology delivery business, right? We're in healthcare and patient servicing but what we do behind the scenes to enable the patient satisfaction and patient outcomes using this web-scale technology or this Amazon-like infrastructure is something that we're going to continue to build and grow on. We'll never be in that position, like Amazon is. But behind the scenes with automation and the infrastructure resiliency, using that same technology is what we're going to, how we're going to accomplish that. >> So a big part of that, 'cause you mentioned some of the digital transformation you're doin' up front, a big part of that cloud-like on prem, is makin' your people more productive and not, you know, focused on provisioning LUNs and servers and-- >> That's right. >> You know, pluggin' in cables. It's really automating as much as possible. So, have you seen the affect on non-differentiated IT labor in your shop? >> We have. So, just within our team, the amount of time the engineers have to spend on just this specific infrastructure has been greatly reduced so we get to spend more time doin' things like protectin' our environment. You know, a lot of these, these viruses have been comin' out lately. These, these exploits. So, we've been able to patch more diligently, remediate issues, and then we've seen other reduction in time for other teams. Storage team, they don't have to deal with our stuff anymore. They can focus in other areas. So it's really been a shift in the way we do business. >> So just one more followup, I know that Stu wants to jump in. So, and this is a hard question to be precise on, but, in rough terms, if you think in, you know, rough percentage terms, how much, you know, sort of, of the labor effort you've been able to shift to more interesting, the fun stuff, as Stu calls it. Is it a 5% factor or a 20%, 50%, you know, 100% factor? I wonder if you could just give us some anecdotal-- >> Right now the impact has been pretty small. If you look at the, our Nutanix infrastructure today, it's a very small portion of our overall infrastructure since it's fairly new. >> Right. >> But, I can tell you, the time that we spend on that right now is very minimal. I have one engineer that oversees the entire infrastructure at this point. I'm freein' up multiple other resources to do other things, so it's been an improvement. >> And so, and so pre-, pre-hyper-converged, if you didn't go that direction you'd have more than one engineer or? >> Oh, I'd have, I'd probably have at least three times as many. >> So three x factor, wow. >> Just because there's so many other components that you have to manage that aren't just specific to that one stack. >> David: Mhm, right. >> Don, you've got virtualization in your title, how do you look at virtualization today? Where are you in that journey? We've been hearin' at a lot of these shows that we've been at that, you know, virtualization feels like it's played out for the most part. We know where it is. Cloud has been the big discussion. Where is it in your job? >> So, kind of two paths in my infrastructure. We have server virtualization which is traditional, you know, virtualizing the compute workload. And then also on application virtualization, so app delivery. And I think there's still a lot of room for growth in both of those aspects. Application delivery is going to continue to morph and it can be delivered from multiple different platforms and I can see it doin' that over time. Server virtualization is a way to go and what we're doin' there is tryin' to continue to deliver the capacity, you know, that we're at or continue to grow it but at the same time shrinking that hardware footprint and relieving some of the stress in the data center and that's what we're lookin' for. >> On server virtualization what are you usin' today? >> For server virtualization we use VM ware, ESX. >> And have you looked at the HV stuff at all? >> We have and I'm very excited about that and it's kind of one of those things where you can't jump in with two feet right off the bat just because it is a little new and you feel like you need to really look at it really closely but at the same time, I'm pretty confident that it's going to be a good, longterm replacement as we continue to look at it. >> One of the, Nutanix has really been looking out for their future plans. One, share, you know, what resonates with you, and what about yourself? What kind of future strategy do you have? What are you looking for from the vendor community to help you do even more with your resources? >> So, the vendor community definitely, this is kind of a new area for them. A lot of the application vendors we talked to aren't really familiar with this platform so I think as this product grows and as this space grows, I think more vendor awareness is going to come about and they're going to be more comfortable with this as a solution. >> Okay, yeah, especially healthcare. It's all those ISVs that need to integrate and support and say, "Yes, I'm okay with it." >> Exactly. >> We saw that with virtualization at first and... >> Yup. And health care is always traditionally a little bit behind 'cause it's a little more conservative space. So, I think it'll take a little bit of time for them to feel comfortable there, as well. >> So what are the big problems you're tryin' to solve today from an infrastructure standpoint? >> Well, you know, financial issues are always a topic, right? So, what we're tryin' to do is deliver infrastructure to support our patients in a cost-effective way. So bein' as frugal with the money that we do have and buyin' the right technology and not spendin' a lot of money on a diverse stack and wasting financials. >> I mean, you just basically, you know, reduced your IT labor in that little part of the world by, you know, a factor of, you know, 3x as we talked about. Is there a gain-sharing philosophy where some of that reduction comes back to you for innovation or is it just, sort of, go back to other parts of the hospital? >> It will go back, probably, just to the bigger, to the bigger team. I mean, there are benefits to us, you know, specifically that we're going to achieve, but overall, that time-saving goes back and allows, you know, different teams to do other things which overall will help improve our whole environment. >> So in the keynotes today, and I was talking to you off-camera about one-click migration, there was a database migration and, I think it was one-click DR as well, but I'm interested in the database stuff. You've got some experience with databases. Actually, let me ask you, is that part of the infrastructure definition is database on down? >> It is. >> Yeah, okay. So what was your reaction to the sort of one-click database migration? >> It's very exciting. I think that's going to help in the aspect of migrating workloads from, from Legacy or traditional to this new platform. There's, I think there's still some components that you have to consider. The migration is very nice but, you know, validation, testing, all those kind of components also have to be part of that whole plan. >> So if I looked at the, I mean, database migrations can sometimes be real hard balls. So if I, if I look at the cycle, you know, the anatomy of a migration, let's say it takes, you know, n amount of time, what is that amount of time, you know, on average, and I know it's a hard, it's one of those stupid average questions. >> It can vary based on size. >> Yeah, I know it's a big it depends. But what percent of that, that, that value chain, if you will, that sequence chain is Nutanix attacking with what you saw today in your view? >> So, what you do is reduce the execution part of that migration and you probably reduce a lot of the planning phase of that because in any kind of a database migration, there are so many factors that go into that and a lot of the discussion is around how are we going to move this workload to this new space? And Nutanix has solved that by taking care of the how and then, you know, you just need to figure out how you're going to validate, test it, and confirm that once it's there, everything continues to work as expected. So I think you've reduced the time of planning and execution both with that strategy. >> I mean, the planning piece has actually got to be a huge portion-- >> Huge. >> Is it half of the total? >> It's probably at least half. >> Yeah, I would think so. >> Because the better you plan, the better you're going to execute, right, so. >> Yeah, yeah, right, right. Okay, good. Well, Don, I'll give you a last word on futures. What kinds of things are you workin' on that, you know, you can share with us? >> So for us, the future is going to be to, to continue to converge this stack. We're going to continue to move forward with automation. Try to reduce the delivery time for applications and servers and infrastructure and eventually simplify our management layer and spend more time doin' other things, doin' more fun stuff. And that's what we're lookin' to do. >> Love it. As I always say, love havin' the practitioners on we get to pepper questions and get the real story. So Don, thanks very much for comin' on The Cube. >> Thank you for havin' me, I appreciate it. >> You're very welcome. Alright, keep it right there everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering Dell EMC World 2017, brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas here at Dell EMC World, The Cube's live coverage of Dell EMC World. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Keith Townsend. We're joined by Don Norbeck. He is the senior director, customer experience engineering, architecture and product management here at Dell EMC. It's a mouthful, but we got it in. >> Figured I'd try and get the largest title ever. >> So, well done, good job. So, talk to, explain to our viewers a little bit about what you do as a customer experience engineer. >> Well it's really broken down into three things. The first thing we do is really look at our customers through data analytics and the try to understand what makes them successful. That's looking at their initial C set, that's looking at their interactions with our services teams and our support teams, looking at the configurations that they have. Looking for patterns of causality and correlation. Second thing we do is a lot of our customers have a lot of ideas on how to expand the platforms and portfolios that we put out there on our CPSD. How to expand the V Blocks, the Vx Racks, the Vx rails. We take those ideas as field innovation. We look for the ones that are repeatable, and we bring them back into the general roadmap. The third thing that we do is, this is a new program, is what we're calling a not-so-secret shopper. So, we go out, and we act as a customer. We buy it, we experience the sales cycle. We ask the questions to go and consolidate down to the need. We go and install it, and we live with it for a while. And we give that feedback, from an end-to-end customer experience perspective. >> And so talk about that not-so-secret shopper program. I love it. What are you finding? What's the feedback? >> We're finding that you can only prepare for every question that you know, so we find a lot of times customer experiences have been great, but there's those little things, that we don't think are nits, but do come up when you switch your perspective and put it into their shoes. Literally and physically sometimes. That you're not going to understand what a customer feels, unless you're acting like that customer. >> Rachel: You've walked a mile in the customer's shoes. >> Exactly. That goes a long way. Because when you're an engineer, you tend to think of things within your own data center or within your own product development experience. You don't always have that perspective. And I had a unique thing 'cuz I came from a customer. Seven years ago I bought one of the first V blocks. It took me about eight weeks to bring up, we had revenue flowing through it. We set it up as a cloud for a service provider, and I continue to drive that experience, what I felt, back into what we do everyday. >> So, how has the customer conversation changed from seven, eight years ago, to now? Same conversation? Different conversation? >> It's actually both. So this is my tenth EMC World, Dell EMC World. I've been as a customer and as a presenter, and we tell the transformation story. We tell the transformation story that you have to stop doing certain things, like playing around with cables, to be able to do certain other greater things for your organization for the line of business. We still tell that story, and it surprises me every EMC World that there is a percentage of customers that have not heard that, that can benefit from that experience. Sometimes you get a little jaded saying the same things over and over again. But it is impactful, it does. For those customers that have gone through that transformation, it's talking about what's next for the platforms. >> Yeah, so what are the opportunities that you're seeing out there? What is next? >> I think this show itself is highlighting some of the opportunities. You go back two or three EMC Worlds ago, and it was all about the product line itself. There's a VMAX World, there's a VnX World. Now those things are still highlighted, but they're highlighted in how you can use them to achieve an outcome. They're embedded in a system, they're embedded in a solution, they're embedded in a practice, or an approach to an outcome for a customer in innovation. So, I think a lot of customers are hearing that story, and you're seeing a switch from asking how many spinny drives does this have, to how can this change my business, change the way that we approach a business problem. >> So, I'm interested in this second phase, this story behind innovation as I've gotten, whether it's a Vx Block, a Vx Rail, whatever the platform that I've gotten in, there's integration points, and I need help figuring it out. What are some of the innovations that your team has helped when you're or, actually what are some of the most interesting use cases that's come to your team and customers asked you to help expand the capability of the platform? >> Excellent question. We've heard our customers. Coming into our last year, we have five V Block families. Vx Block, and then have Vx Block version, so 10 different model lines. Customers wanted to combine some of the model lines, and we found and heard, that you couldn't get from say a 300, which was a VnX based, add a VMAX to it, it wouldn't work. But if you started with a VMAX base, and added a VnX base to it, it would work. The reason was the size of the MDS switches in between. So that doesn't make sense. You should be able to enable that to have a customer to have two storage arrays based on the need that they have. So the two innovations that came out of a customer, one was a process innovation, which was listen to the customer and tell us what they were going to become, rather than just what they needed today. So asking that question helped us gear them to an infrastructure that can support both use cases. Second one was changing the architectural approach. And moving from three or five model lines, that you have to take the new, hottest component, and try to jam it into each of them, and do five different engineering approaches, well maybe if we just did one engineering approach, we may be able to apply it to all the model lines that are appropriate. So, instead of having a system out approach, it was infrastructure up and customer need in. >> So what I keep hearing is, really understanding the customer's needs, and it sounds like you need, this requires a lot of empathy. So how does this work just from the developer's side, in terms of working so closely with the customer, and knowing the great questions to ask. I mean, is there any kinds of advice that you give to your team, in terms of how to really get at the problems? Because sometimes, the customer doesn't even understand what the problem is, they just know there's an issue. >> First thing is to get out of speeds and feats. If you get out of just the technical bits, we usually have the argument, green cables are better than blue cables. That part doesn't matter. The part that matters is what you're going to use it for. So getting past that into why, and the outcome is the first approach. And then, after you get out of, get answers based on that, you go into what I call PACCS, performance, availability, cost, compliance, security. Those are the hows that you achieve the why. Then it can get down to blue cables and green cables. But engineers always want to start with the green cable. I had bad experience with blue cable, so I need the green cable this time. Why did you have a bad experience? You can ask a bunch of questions to elevate the discussion. >> So put your customer hat back on. First V Block that you bought was eight years ago. You're almost coming up on your second refresh. What excites you about the new portfolio products, where the portfolio has moved, what excites you? >> What excites me is if you think about all the configurations that are possible, it's ten by a really large number, but not all of them are good. You can do anything but you can't do everything. What excites me is that we're spending more and more time narrowing down the prescription on what's appropriate for purpose. And that's interesting for me as a customer, because if I can buy something and I know it is appropriate for purpose, I can worry about that purpose, not just the infrastructure that I put it on. So that really excites me. Other things that really excite me are we're going to that broader architectural approach but still maintaining the prescription that allows us to give the support experience. And how we're doing that is, we're going to see some things later in the year around the refresh of the V Block that allows a lot more interconnectivity from those purposes. And that architectural infrastructure allows us to package things for purpose, rather than creating a system for purpose. That's really interesting. But what really gets me, is the future. The next step after that is how we bring the benefits of software definition, that is really, lit the HCI world on fire, to the convergence world. How do we bring that back down? So we have an amazing portfolio from servers to storage to networking. Wouldn't it be nice for us to go out and scan what a customer has, and tell them what their infrastructure could become? What purposes it could be used for, what configurations are no good, what configurations are known bad, that you should go in and remediate? And I think we're really at the point where the software investments that we're making are going to lead us to that type of experience. >> I'm sensing the theme of next year's Dell EMC World. Don, thanks so much for joining us. It was great. I'm Rebecca Knight, for Keith Townsend. We'll have more from Dell EMC world after this. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering Interconnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> OK, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas. I'm wearing the Blockchain Revolution hat right here. Of course, I'm John Furrier with the Cube, and my co host Dave Vellante, we're excited to have celebrity author, thought leader, futurist and fill in the blank on the title Don Tapscott, who's the author of the Blockchain Revolution. Legend in the industry, thought leader, you and your son a compelling new book, but you've been on the fringe of all the game changing technologies going back with social media, we've been following your work, it's been great. Now we're at the front range of Blockchain, OK? Now it's becoming pretty clear to some of the innovators like IBM and others that it's not about Bitcoin alone, it's about the Blockchain Revolution, the Blockchain itself. Welcome to the Cube and what's going on? What is Blockchain? (laughing) >> Well, it's great to hear, be here. The one thing you didn't mention is I play keyboards in a rock band. So. >> The most interesting man on the Cube right now. >> We used to do a concert every year whether our public demanded it or not, but no, we're a charity event. We've raised a few million dollars for good causes. Anyway. I think, along with my son Alex, we figured this out a couple of years ago that this is the second era of the internet. For the first few decades, we've had the internet of information. And if I send you some information, PDF, PowerPoint, E-mail, even with the website, I keep the original. I'm sending you a copy. That doesn't work so great for assets. Like money, stocks, bonds. Identities, votes. Music, art. Loyalty points. If I send you $100, it's really important I don't still have the money, and I can't send it to you. So this has been called the double spend problem by cryptographers for a long time. And Blockchain solves this problem. We've had the internet of information, now we're getting the internet of value. Where anything of value, from money to votes to music can be exchanged peer to peer. And where we can transact, keep records, and trust each other without powerful intermediaries. Now that doesn't mean intermediaries are going to go away, but they're going to have to embrace this technology or they will be toast. >> I mean, this is clear, you see the distributive computing paradigm, I mean, we're all network guys and by training, you can follow this revolution. But now when you start thinking about trust and value and you talk about digitizing the world. So, if you go to digital transformation, that's the thesis, that we're in this digital transformation, you're digitizing money, you're digitizing transactions. Explain more on the value piece because now if everything's going digital, there now needs to be a new model around how to handle the transactions at scale, and with security problems, hackers. >> Yeah, OK. Well that gets to a couple of really good points. First of all, what is digital? You know, you think, "Well, I tap my card at Starbucks "and bits go through all these networks and different "companies with different computer systems and three "days later a settlement occurs." But that's actually a bunch of messages. It's not money. Money, cash, is a bare instrument. If you have cash in your pocket, you are the bearer of that instrument, which means that you own it. And what we're talking about is something very different here, of creating digital cash. That's stored on a global ledger. So, rather than there being a three day settlement period, there's no settlement period because you're just making a change in the database. And this is a very revolutionary concept. And as for security, I mean, think about, I don't know, you're right, it's not about Bitcoin. But if we took the case of the Bitcoin Blockchain. If I wanted to hack that, I'd have to hack that 10 minute block that has all those transactions, which is linked to the previous block and the previous block, I'd have to hack the entire history of commerce on that Blockchain, not just on one computer, but simultaneously across millions of computers, all using the highest level of cryptography, while the most powerful computing resource in the world, the minors are watching me to make sure I don't mess around. Now, I won't say it's impossible, just like I suppose it's not impossible to take a Chicken McNugget and turn it back into a chicken, but it's really hard to do. A lot, and so these systems are way more secure than our current systems. >> Yes, it fundamentally impossible, and you don't have a third party verification system that's also an exposure area, it's globally distributed, right, so let's go back to what is Blockchain? What's the Blockchain 101? >> Well, Blockchain is a distributed ledger where anything of value, from money to votes, and music can be stored, transacted, managed, in a secure and confidential way, and where trust between parties is established, not by a big intermediary, but by cryptography, by collaboration, and some clever code. >> So, talk about the premise of the book. Sort of why you wrote it and what the fundamental premise is. >> Well, three years ago, three years and five weeks ago, at a father son ski trip, over a large piece of beef, and a very nice bottle of wine, Alex and I started thinking about what all this means. And we decided to work together. And he wrote a very cogent paper about how this new ecosystem could govern itself and my publisher got wind of it and said, "That sounds like a book." So we launched a dozen projects, couple of years ago, on how this technology changes, not just financial services, how it changes the corporation and the deep structure and architecture of the firm. How it changes every industry. How it changes government. Democracy, there's an opportunity to end the crisis of legitimacy of our democratic institutions. But what it means for culture and so on. And then we wrote the book. And it was published in May 10th last year, it's been a big best seller, it's the best selling book on Blockchain. It's actually the only real book on Blockchain. In some countries it was ridiculous. For a while, in Canada, it was competing with Harry Potter and an adult coloring book, as the best selling book in the country. >> That's the state of our culture right there. (laughing) >> What is an adult coloring book, anyway? (laughing) >> That's the million dollar question right there. >> There are a lot of geeky books on Blockchain, but this-- >> Well, actually, there aren't, there are books on crypto currency, on Bitcoin. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And but the only real book on Blockchain is Blockchain Revolution. >> So, but you're really focusing on the business impact, organizational impact, even societal impact, so explain the premise. >> Well, where do we start? Let's start with the firm. Corporation, foundation of capitalism, based on double entry accounting. That's what enabled capitalism. Well, with Blockchain, you get a third entry onto the ledger, so you have triple entry accounting, so you don't need, say, audits. Every year, because there's an annual audit. That's just the beginning. Because the reason that we have firms, according to the Nobel Prize winning economist Ronald Coase, is that the transaction costs in an open market, like the cost of search, finding all the right people and information, the cost of contracting, for every little activity we're contract prohibitive. The cost of coordination, getting all these people to work together, didn't know each other. The cost of establishing trust, all of that in an open market is prohibitive, so we bring that inside the boundaries of a firm. Well, Blockchain will devastate those transaction costs. So we're talking about a fundamental change in how we orchestrate capability, in our economy, to innovate, to create goods and services. And for that matter, to create public value. So this is not some interesting little technology. This is the second era of the internet. I think it's going to be bigger than the first era was. >> So the internet, I mean, the value creation side. So let's take that additional asset side. So assume everything's digitized, got IOTs out there, industrial IOT, wearables, smart cars, smart cities, smart everything, but now you've got to create value as a firm, so let's roll that forward, we have the now somewhat frictionless transactional environment in an open market, how do firms create value out of those digital assets? >> Well, they'll create value in some ways that are radically different than today. So let me give you an example. Who are the big digital value disrupters today? Well, you can start with the so called sharing economy. You know, Uber, Airbnb, Lyft. >> The Cube. >> Sorry? >> The Cube. (laughing) We're disrupting the world right now. >> Well, you're actually not a sharing economy company in the sense that I think. >> In the traditional sense. >> Actually, I don't think they are, either. I mean, the reason that Uber's successful is precisely because it doesn't share. It's a service aggregator. So, why do you need a $70,000,000,000 corporation to do what Uber does? It could be done by a distributed ledger with some smart contracts and autonomous agents. Everything that the corporation does could be done by software. Airbnb. You know, how about, we'll call it B Airbnb, Blockchain Airbnb. So, you go onto your mobile device, and you're looking for a place, and you're going to be in Vegas, and all the hotels are booked because of IBM, and then you find a place, you book it, and then you show up, you turn your key that starts a smart contract payment to the owner of the apartment or the room, and you check out, you turn your key, it's closed. The software has a payment system built into it. So the renter of the room gets paid. You enter a five star on your device. And that's immutable, and it's a five star rating on a Blockchain. Everything that Airbnb as a company does could actually be done by this software. So, Bob Dylan, there's something going on here and you don't know what it is, I mean, people are all locked in an old paradigm about what's disruption. Get ready for this. >> So what's the impact, I mean, not the impact, what's the inhibitor, so, obviously, any new technology you see all the naysayers, so obviously this is a great vision, what's going to be the impediment? >> Well, they are all kinds of impediments and inhibitors, and there are all kinds of ways that this can get messed up. A big one is that we're overcoming now is that people think, well this is about Bitcoin, well, it's not. The real pony here is the underlying technology of Blockchain, and that's the biggest innovation in computer science in a generation, I think. But also, you know, I wrote this 1992 in Paradigm Shift, I said, when you get a new paradigm, it's a new mental model, and these things cause dislocation and disruption and uncertainty, and they're nearly always received with coolness. I mean, you guys know what it's like to be received with coolness as you introduce a new idea as do I, going back to the '70s. But, and vested interests fight against change. And leaders of old paradigms have great difficulties embracing the new. So you think about a company like Western Union that can charge 10% for remittances that take four to seven days. Well, with new tools, they don't take four to seven days, they take minutes, and they charge, based on Blockchain, they charge a point and a half. So, it's the old-- >> The inhibitors, they got to get their solutions out there so that they could go after and eat some of the lunch of the older guys. >> Well, they have to eat their own lunch, that's-- >> Western Union could be disrupted by a new entrant, right? So you got a new entrant coming in, they got to cannibalize themselves-- >> And at that point, it tips, there are enough disruptive entrants, right? >> So, it's all those inhibitors to change and for the IT people that are at this event, this is an exciting opportunity, but you do need to learn a new kind of knowledge base to function in this distributed ledger environment. You need to learn about hyper ledger, for starters, because that's the real enterprise platform. >> All right, so folks watching, like my son who helps us out sometimes as well, you have a father son relationship, which is super inspirational. He's, say he wants to get involved in Blockchain. He wants to jump right in, he's kind of a hacker type, what does he do? How does he get involved? Obviously read the book, Blockchain Revolution, get the big picture. Is there other things you'd advise? >> Well, buying the book in massive volume is always a good first step, no. Seriously. Well, one thing I always say to people is personal use is a precondition for any kind of comprehension. So just go get yourself a wallet for some crypto currency and download it and you'll learn all about public key encryption and so on. But I think in a company there are a number of things that managers need to do. Need to start doing pilots, sandboxes, developing and understanding use cases, and our new Blockchain research institute is going to be a big help in that. But also, for an IT person, is your son an IT guy or he's more an entrepreneur? >> No, he's 21 years old. >> He's 21. >> He doesn't know anything about IT. >> He's a computer science guy. >> He's born in the cloud. IT, can't spell IT. >> Well. (laughing) >> IT's for old guys like us. (laughing) >> We're telling him what he should do, he should be here telling us what we should do. >> John: That's why we hired him, he's a little guinea pig. >> Digital natives, you know, we're digital immigrants, we had to learn the language. But, for the IT people, it's all about not just experimenting, but about moving towards operational systems and about architecture. Because our architectures are based on traditional computing environments and this is something from Paradigm Shift, you remember, I interviewed Max Hopper who invented the Sabre Reservation System for American Airlines, and he says, "The big problem, Don, "is that if I don't have a target architecture, "every time I spend a dollar, I'm building up my legacy "and making it worse by investing in IT." And so that's where I came up with this formulation, yeah, God may have created the world in six days, but he didn't have an installed base to start with. (laughing) So, what we need to do is to start to think about architectures that embrace Blockchain. And this is an historic new opportunity for anybody who cares about IT. >> Is the disruptive enabler for Blockchain the fact that we're now fully connected as a society, or is it something else that we don't see? What's your view on, what's the real wealth creating disruptive enabler? >> Well, you can sense that the rate of change is a lot faster for the second generation than the first. 1993, '94, when I wrote the Digital Economy, it was dial-up. Ebay. >> 14 four. >> Amazon didn't exist. >> Actually 98 I think it was. >> When I wrote that book. Google was five years away. Facebook was 10 years away, so but now we've got wireless, we've got IP everywhere. We've got mobility. We've got the cloud, we've got all the preconditions for this new innovation to happen a lot faster. And that's why, I mean, a year ago, there wasn't a lot of talk at this event about Blockchain. Today it's the big buzz. >> I wonder if you could talk about other applications. You talk about hyper ledger, it's a great place for a starting point, especially for IBM, but one of the areas I'm excited about is security. You know, like the MIT Enigma Project, and there are others, you know, security is such a problem. Every year we look back, John and I, we say, do we feel more secure? And no, we feel less secure. What about the application of Blockchain in security use cases? >> Well, Blockchains are more secure in a number of ways. One is they're harder to hack than traditional servers. And people say, "No, our company, we're bulletproof." Right, tell that to JP Morgan and Home Depot-- >> Target fidelity-- >> The Democratic National Convention, but also tell it to the CIA. I mean, if the CIA can be hacked, then any of these traditional server technologies can be hacked. So that, alone, is a huge case to move towards hyper ledger and these other type platforms. But you said, "I feel less secure these days." And that's a really interesting statement. Because I think that, in many ways, the security of the person has been undermined by the internet of information, as well. That, first of all, we don't own the data that we create. That's a crazy situation. We all create this massive new asset. It's a new asset class. Probably more important than industrial plant, in the industrial age. Maybe more important than land in the agrarian age. We create it, but these data frackers, you know, like-- >> Facebook. >> --Facebook. Own it and that's a big problem. The virtual you is not owned by you. So we need to get our identity back and to manage it responsibly, and people who say to me, "Well, Don, privacy's dead, get over it." This is foolishness. Privacy is the foundation of freedom. And all these things are happening in our world today that undermine our basic security. Our identity's being taken away from us. Or the fact that things happen in this digital world that we don't know, what are the underlying algorithms? If I take this, and I drop it, that's called gravity. I know what's going to happen. But if I go onto Facebook and I do certain things, I have no idea what are the algorithms that's determining what's happening with that and how the data is used. So-- >> Hello fake news. That's how fake news came about. >> Well, yeah, totally. >> People don't know what to trust and it's like, wait a minute. >> Exactly, and well, this has led, also, to a total fragmentation of public discourse, where we've all ended up in these little self reinforcing echo chambers where the purpose of information is not to inform us, it's to, I don't know, give us comfort. >> Divide people. >> Yeah. So, I'm not saying that Blockchains can fix everything, in fact, they can't fix anything, it's humans that fix things. But the key point that Alex and I make in the book is that once again the technology genie has escaped from the bottle, and it was summoned by this person that we don't even know who they are. At a very uncertain time in history. But it's giving us another kick at the can. To sort of fix these problems. To make a world where trust is embedded in everything and where things are trustworthy, and where people are trustworthy, and maybe we can rewrite the whole economic power grid and the old order of things for the better. And that's really important. >> My final question for you, and this is kind of a thought provoking question. Every major revolution, you see, big one, you've seen a counter culture, '60s, computer revolution, PC revolution, are we on the edge now of a new counter culture developing? Because the things you're kind of teasing out is this new generation, is it the '60s version of tech hippies or is there going to be a, because you're getting at radical reconfiguration, radical value creation, this is good evolution, and fast. So you can almost see the young generation, like my son, you're talking about, teaching us how to do it, that's a counter culture. Do you see that happening? >> Well, first of all, I see this change in culture profoundly, so artists can get fairly compensated for the work they create. Imogen Heap puts her song on a Blockchain platform, and the song's inside a smart contract that specifies the IP rights. And you want to listen to it, maybe it's free, you want to put it in your movie, it costs more. The way she describes it is the song acts as a business, and it has a bank account. So, we can profoundly change many aspects of culture, bringing more justice to our culture. But I'm not sure there'll be a counter culture in the traditional sense because you've got people embracing Blockchain that want to fix a bunch of problems, but also people who want to make large organizations more competitive and more effective. The smart banks are embracing this because they know they can cut their transaction costs in half, probably. And they know that if they don't do it, somebody else will. >> And IBM's embracing it because they write software and they service all those firms with technology. >> Well, IBM, the case of IBM is really interesting, and I'll end on that one. That if you think about it, and I go back, I mean, there were only main frames when I started, and IBM was the leader of the bunch, right? And then all the bunch died, but IBM somehow reinvented itself and it got into mini computers and then we saw the rise of the PC and IBM invented the IBM PC, and then we got into the internet, and once again, all these companies died off but somehow IBM was able to find within itself the leadership to transform itself. And I'm, I won't say I'm shocked, but I have to tell you, I'm really delighted that IBM has figured this one out and is driving hard to be a leader of this next generation of the internet. >> And they're driving open source, too, to give IBM a plug, Don Tapscott, great to have you on the Cube. Good luck with your speech today. A legend in the industry, great thinker, futurist. Amazing work. Blockchain is the next revolution, it will impact, it's an opportunity for entrepreneurs, this is a disruptive enabler, you can literally take down incumbent businesses. Changing the nature of the firm, radical economical change. Thanks so much for sharing the insight. >> Nice hat, too. >> I got a nice hat. I got a free bowl of soup with this hat, as they say-- >> Don: It's all about the Blockchain, baby. >> It's all about the Blockchain. >> It's all about the Blockchain. >> More Blockchain Cube analysis as we disrupt you with more coverage, I'm John Furrier, Dave Velante, stay with us. (musical sting)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco. It's the CUBE, covering Oracle Open World 2016. Brought to you by Oracle. Now here is your host, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Okay welcome back everyone we are here live in San Francisco for The Cube. This Silocon Angle Media's flagship program, where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the co-CEO of Silicon Angle Media with Peter Burris, head of research for Silicon Angle Media. He's also the general manager of Wikibon Research. Check out wikibon dot com for all the latest research and cloud, big data infrastructure. And we're at Oracle OpenWorld 2016. I'm excited to have our next guest, Don Johnson, VP of engineering for product development for the Infrastructures as a Service for Oracle Cloud. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> John: Thanks for spending the time to come on. We really appreciate it. >> My pleasure. >> And obviously Oracle's cloud last year was obviously the announcement they're marching to the cloud. A big building block in this, was Infrastructure as a Service. They had the sass. They're taking names, kicking butt in there and they're transforming. Platform as a service developing nicely this year, showed some progress. But the upgrade if you will, or reboot or reset, however you want to call it, was fundamentally to introduce the new stuff with Infrastructures as a Service, to kind of round everything off. Give us the update. What's the key new news for Infrastructure as a Service and why is it important? >> Well a couple things. Let me start with the last part of your question, why is it important. So, very broadly, I would say, There's kind of two strata of cloud. There's cloud platform and there's everything that's up above, apps, sass, etc. Cloud platform I think is a big category. It's broad spectrum but it's IaaS and Paas and then there's lots of stuff that falls inside of there. Iaas is a fundamental and foundational building block and all of the characteristics, that everything up above, relies on or requires is basically enabled by infrastructure If you want to run at massive scale, if you want network connectivity between place A and place B if you want intrinsic security, that's all things that are foundational characteristics and you either have them or you don't based on whether infrastructure IaaS gives them to you. And so, for us, for Oracle, we're a cloud platform company. This is a foundational piece, and we're investing in this very aggressively and we're driving in a very innovative direction on this. So, >> You've been at Amazon since 2005, just recently joined Oracle on the engineering side and you know, infrastructure right now we're seeing is a cost and performance game. Drive the cost down as low as possible while preserving scale and performance, real critical. And almost hardening the top if you will, creating a hardened infrastructure so that you can enable dev-ops and some coolness around agility all that good stuff above, on top of the could. So what's the key things this year that you guys filled in terms of product? What was the key innovations and, on the development side, what was the key sprint for you guys? >> Well, so what we've been announcing at IaaS is really our next generation infrastructure, which is two-fold. It is the infrastructure itself, what are data centers and networks and virtual network looks like and then it's a new suite of products that we put on top of this, bare metal cloud services. And this is the fruit of a big kind of back to basics foundational exercise where we have gone and redesigned everything from the ground up. We've done it with a focus on a bunch of core, core criteria. Core things that we wanted to, that we wanted to capture and that we wanted to do better, better than have been done in the industry to date. And I would characterize those as two-fold. First, we are bringing along, all of the best characteristics of the cloud and why the cloud is compelling and what people, use it for, Self-service, pay for to use. It's elastic; it's easy to use. It's, there's low friction. It's high-scale, etc. But there's a number of things that for our core customer-base, actually are very challenging in moving to the cloud. And when I say our core customer-base, if you have a large existing, you know, if you're an enterprise and you have a large existing infrastructure and deployment, typically on premise, you have a lot of constraints and it's difficult to actually move into this new environment and take advantage of all that it has to offer. And there are, this applies to how your applications will run there, the assumptions that they make, your security and controls. And so we've identified a number of areas that we fundamentally wanted to do better than they've been done before. Security, reliability, governance, the ability to manage, if you're a large complex organization, you have a large complex footprint and deployment in the cloud, the ability to manage it. Performance, performance is a broad spectrum. Peak performance, raw performance, predictable performance in a particular price performance. You're talking about performance and cost. And sort of an adjunct to performance is the ability to harness modern technologies because if you look at where storage is going, non-volatile RAM and technologies like Intel Crosspoint. How can you actually enable customers to get access to that and use it and harness what it offers, very, very quickly. And most, most of all really, flexibility. Sort of the choice and what I mean by that is when you're a cloud provider you, you kind of pick a, you pick a certain level at which you implement and define and build your abstractions, and then, that has consequences in what choices you actually offer. So let me be a little bit more precise about this. A core thing that we did, sort of the keys, the special sauce in any cloud platform is the virtual network. And we made a fundamental choice that the way in which we're going to do virtual networks is to pull the virtualization into the network itself where we think it belongs. >> John: So no hypervisor? >> It's not in the hypervisor. And so, what that means is first it means we're able to like the, the requirement that we have of something that we can plug into our cloud, your cloud, your virtual network is, it has an ethernet port. This means that we put, we can put anything into a virtualized network. Our whole infrastructure, you know the presentation to the customers is everything runs in a virtual overlay. It's all virtual network. But we could put any class of resource in there. We could do bare metal. We could do an engineered system. We can, honestly, we can take an arbitrary middle box from you know, any third party vendor. This lets us give our customers bare metal. Giving our customers bare metal means we can, we can take, so we provide bare metal, compute with NVME drives. They are phenomenal. There is nothing, like we're literally giving you a server in the cloud with a, you know, provision in minutes paid by the hour. And you get, in our biggest shape, you get in excess of four million 4k read-high ops. Like this is phenomenal power. So really there is nothing that stands between us, between the technology and us giving it to you. >> So that was the key design criteria, then? >> That was the key design criteria and so this you know, in terms of sort of, flexibility and preserving choice, this means, you know, principle you can bring any OS. You can bring any hypervisor. If you have some old stuff that's difficult to move, you can't break up our hypervisor. >> So you let the performance, everyone kind of speak for themselves if you will. So, the customer can put anything on this thing >> Yeah. And these are phenomenally powerful boxes. >> Okay so now, how does that compare with Amazon and Azure because the number one question I get is, and let me see if you can put some color around this. Obviously Amazon had a different thing. You guys had a clean sheet of paper and you took smaller steps, computed storage and built services and scaled up there. Azure had, kind of backed into it with their existing business and there portals and all their services and then now are moving their customers on there. So, the number one question I get is, well what's different with the IaaS on Oracle vis-à-vis AWS and Microsoft Azure. How do you answer that question? Is there a distinct difference? Is there a design philosophy? Is it? >> Well, the design philosophy for Iaas is what I was just articulating. And in essence it, it looks and acts very, very similar from the perspective of the customer, the user experience at scale. As well as, it preserves choice and flexibility and is amenable. Basically it is it is much more friendly to the large enterprise or large business that is outside of the, often times and typically, outside of the sweet spot of what an infrastructure like say Amazon was originally designed for. So as a principle, we are trying to meet our customers where they're at. From, they want to migrate over some apps and do it cautiously and maybe not change too much about them. And not see that as a constraint or an obstacle to get to all of the, all of the promise and power of, running modern applications in high-scale, highly available. >> Look in many respects, in many respects, cloud is naturally a network-centric compute model. >> Don: Yes. >> By putting more, by not putting network virtualization above the network but putting it into the network, does that also at some point in time give you greater flexibility, the option to bring even more of, >> Don: Absolutely. >> core work that's gone down into the network? So that you can actually start liberating some of the power of a real network computing model. Others can't do that right now. So if you think about it, what kinds of applications might that make possible in the future? Thinking about IOT for example, the ability to use a network model to describe how work gets allocated within a cloud of services? >> Well, I think the, the network ultimately, what you need it to do, there's a few things you need it to do. You need to very reliably and quickly move bits from place a to place b. You need it to it to have the flexibility sort of, as a topology to be able to put things in. And you need it to preserve, privacy and plugability. So the fundamental thing that I see our virtual network supporting and enabling, is basically building up a fabric of services, and letting us say, so everyone runs in a private overlay. We want to make it easy for any provider, ourselves as well as any third party provider, to inject micro-services into your, into your private network. We want to make it easy to be able to bring over traditional security controls, where, you want to, set up bastions and set up taps and be able to introspect you know, do, you know traditional IDS, IPS. So, I see network virtualization really as an enabler of, you know it's providing a fabric that lets you, that gives you great flexibility in wiring things together. I hope that answered your questions. >> So final question for you, what's next? So what's on the, what's the priorities on the to-do list for you guys as you go down, a two point five, a two point one? As they say at Microsoft, never make it an odd, an even number, make it a, you know. Two point one or two point five or three point o. What's next? >> There's a ton of things. So we're building up data centers and new geographies. We're going big. We're going to add a ton of skews. We're going to make bigger things, smaller things, adding, a ton more features really all across the board. So I don't know that I see it as there's a two point five. There's going to a rapid pace. >> So more slew of announcement >> Very similar >> Don: Yes. >> to the cadence we've been seeing at Oracle and Amazon traditionally had started that trend. Larry couldn't even finish the keynote on Sunday because the announcement stream was so large >> No we have a, you'll see a constant string of releases on a, you know, a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis. There's just a ton of stuff coming. We have a ton of features to add. We have a ton of interesting new services to add. >> So the pace is fast. You're running hard? >> Don: The pace is very fast. >> Well, congratulations and looking forward to following you guys and your success. Love the agile mindset. Love to see that cadence of shipping stuff, moving really, really fast and appreciate, >> Alright. >> you spending the time. >> Don: Thank you very much. >> Sharing your insights. The Cube live here at OpenWorld. You're watching The Cube. Back with more live coverage here in San Francisco after this short break. (softly intense techno music)

(upbeat intro music) >> Hello everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm your host, John Furrier, here in Palo Alto, California. Got a special remote guest coming in. Teresa Carlson, President and Chief Commercial Officer at Flexport, theCUBE alumni, one of the first, let me go back to 2013, Teresa, former AWS. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Oh my gosh, almost 10 years. That is unbelievable. It's hard to believe so many years of theCUBE. I love it. >> It's been such a great honor to interview you and follow your career. You've had quite the impressive run, executive level woman in tech. You've done such an amazing job, not only in your career, but also helping other women. So I want to give you props to that before we get started. Thank you. >> Thank you, John. I, it's my, it's been my honor and privilege. >> Let's talk about Flexport. Tell us about your new role there and what it's all about. >> Well, I love it. I'm back working with another Amazonian, Dave Clark, who is our CEO of Flexport, and we are about 3,000 people strong globally in over 90 countries. We actually even have, we're represented in over 160 cities and with local governments and places around the world, which I think is super exciting. We have over 100 network partners and growing, and we are about empowering the global supply chain and trade and doing it in a very disruptive way with the use of platform technology that allows our customers to really have visibility and insight to what's going on. And it's a lot of fun. I'm learning new things, but there's a lot of technology in this as well, so I feel right at home. >> You quite have a knack from mastering growth, technology, and building out companies. So congratulations, and scaling them up too with the systems and processes. So I want to get into that. Let's get into your personal background. Then I want to get into the work you've done and are doing for empowering women in tech. What was your journey about, how did it all start? Like, I know you had a, you know, bumped into it, you went Microsoft, AWS. Take us through your career, how you got into tech, how it all happened. >> Well, I do like to give a shout out, John, to my roots and heritage, which was a speech and language pathologist. So I did start out in healthcare right out of, you know, university. I had an undergraduate and a master's degree. And I do tell everyone now, looking back at my career, I think it was super helpful for me because I learned a lot about human communication, and it has done me very well over the years to really try to understand what environments I'm in and what kind of individuals around the world culturally. So I'm really blessed that I had that opportunity to work in healthcare, and by the way, a shout out to all of our healthcare workers that has helped us get through almost three years of COVID and flu and neurovirus and everything else. So started out there and then kind of almost accidentally got into technology. My first small company I worked for was a company called Keyfile Corporation, which did workflow and document management out of Nashua, New Hampshire. And they were a Microsoft goal partner. And that is actually how I got into big tech world. We ran on exchange, for everybody who knows that term exchange, and we were a large small partner, but large in the world of exchange. And those were the days when you would, the late nineties, you would go and be in the same room with Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer. And I really fell in love with Microsoft back then. I thought to myself, wow, if I could work for a big tech company, I got to hear Bill on stage about saving, he would talk about saving the world. And guess what my next step was? I actually got a job at Microsoft, took a pay cut and a job downgrade. I tell this story all the time. Took like three downgrades in my role. I had been a SVP and went to a manager, and it's one of the best moves I ever made. And I shared that because I really didn't know the world of big tech, and I had to start from the ground up and relearn it. I did that, I just really loved that job. I was at Microsoft from 2000 to 2010, where I eventually ran all of the U.S. federal government business, which was a multi-billion dollar business. And then I had the great privilege of meeting an amazing man, Andy Jassy, who I thought was just unbelievable in his insights and knowledge and openness to understanding new markets. And we talked about government and how government needed the same great technology as every startup. And that led to me going to work for Andy in 2010 and starting up our worldwide public sector business. And I pinch myself some days because we went from two people, no offices, to the time I left we had over 10,000 people, billions in revenue, and 172 countries and had done really amazing work. I think changing the way public sector and government globally really thought about their use of technology and Cloud computing in general. And that kind of has been my career. You know, I was there till 2020, 21 and then did a small stint at Splunk, a small stint back at Microsoft doing a couple projects for Microsoft with CEO, Satya Nadella, who is also an another amazing CEO and leader. And then Dave called me, and I'm at Flexport, so I couldn't be more honored, John. I've just had such an amazing career working with amazing individuals. >> Yeah, I got to say the Amazon One well-documented, certainly by theCUBE and our coverage. We watched you rise and scale that thing. And like I said at a time, this will when we look back as a historic run because of the build out. I mean as a zero to massive billions at a historic time where government was transforming, I would say Microsoft had a good run there with Fed, but it was already established stuff. Federal business was like, you know, blocking and tackling. The Amazon was pure build out. So I have to ask you, what was your big learnings? Because one, you're a Seattle big tech company kind of entrepreneurial in the sense of you got, here's some working capital seed finance and go build that thing, and you're in DC and you're a woman. What did you learn? >> I learned that you really have to have a lot of grit. You, my mom and dad, these are kind of more southern roots words, but stick with itness, you know. you can't give up and no's not in your vocabulary. I found no is just another way to get to yes. That you have to figure out what are all the questions people are going to ask you. I learned to be very patient, and I think one of the things John, for us was our secret sauce was we said to ourselves, if we're going to do something super transformative and truly disruptive, like Cloud computing, which the government really had not utilized, we had to be patient. We had to answer all their questions, and we could not judge in any way what they were thinking because if we couldn't answer all those questions and prove out the capabilities of Cloud computing, we were not going to accomplish our goals. And I do give so much credit to all my colleagues there from everybody like Steve Schmidt who was there, who's still there, who's the CISO, and Charlie Bell and Peter DeSantis and the entire team there that just really helped build that business out. Without them, you know, we would've just, it was a team effort. And I think that's the thing I loved about it was it was not just sales, it was product, it was development, it was data center operations, it was legal, finance. Everybody really worked as a team and we were on board that we had to make a lot of changes in the government relations team. We had to go into Capitol Hill. We had to talk to them about the changes that were required and really get them to understand why Cloud computing could be such a transformative game changer for the way government operates globally. >> Well, I think the whole world and the tech world can appreciate your work and thank you later because you broke down those walls asking those questions. So great stuff. Now I got to say, you're in kind of a similar role at Flexport. Again, transformative supply chain, not new. Computing wasn't new when before Cloud came. Supply chain, not a new concept, is undergoing radical change and transformation. Online, software supply chain, hardware supply chain, supply chain in general, shipping. This is a big part of our economy and how life is working. Similar kind of thing going on, build out, growth, scale. >> It is, it's very much like that, John, I would say, it's, it's kind of a, the model with freight forwarding and supply chain is fairly, it's not as, there's a lot of technology utilized in this global supply chain world, but it's not integrated. You don't have a common operating picture of what you're doing in your global supply chain. You don't have easy access to the information and visibility. And that's really, you know, I was at a conference last week in LA, and it was, the themes were so similar about transparency, access to data and information, being able to act quickly, drive change, know what was happening. I was like, wow, this sounds familiar. Data, AI, machine learning, visibility, common operating picture. So it is very much the same kind of themes that you heard even with government. I do believe it's an industry that is going through transformation and Flexport has been a group that's come in and said, look, we have this amazing idea, number one to give access to everyone. We want every small business to every large business to every government around the world to be able to trade their goods, think about supply chain logistics in a very different way with information they need and want at their fingertips. So that's kind of thing one, but to apply that technology in a way that's very usable across all systems from an integration perspective. So it's kind of exciting. I used to tell this story years ago, John, and I don't think Michael Dell would mind that I tell this story. One of our first customers when I was at Keyfile Corporation was we did workflow and document management, and Dell was one of our customers. And I remember going out to visit them, and they had runners and they would run around, you know, they would run around the floor and do their orders, right, to get all those computers out the door. And when I think of global trade, in my mind I still see runners, you know, running around and I think that's moved to a very digital, right, world that all this stuff, you don't need people doing this. You have machines doing this now, and you have access to the information, and you know, we still have issues resulting from COVID where we have either an under-abundance or an over-abundance of our supply chain. We still have clogs in our shipping, in the shipping yards around the world. So we, and the ports, so we need to also, we still have some clearing to do. And that's the reason technology is important and will continue to be very important in this world of global trade. >> Yeah, great, great impact for change. I got to ask you about Flexport's inclusion, diversity, and equity programs. What do you got going on there? That's been a big conversation in the industry around keeping a focus on not making one way more than the other, but clearly every company, if they don't have a strong program, will be at a disadvantage. That's well reported by McKinsey and other top consultants, diverse workforces, inclusive, equitable, all perform better. What's Flexport's strategy and how are you guys supporting that in the workplace? >> Well, let me just start by saying really at the core of who I am, since the day I've started understanding that as an individual and a female leader, that I could have an impact. That the words I used, the actions I took, the information that I pulled together and had knowledge of could be meaningful. And I think each and every one of us is responsible to do what we can to make our workplace and the world a more diverse and inclusive place to live and work. And I've always enjoyed kind of the thought that, that I could help empower women around the world in the tech industry. Now I'm hoping to do my little part, John, in that in the supply chain and global trade business. And I would tell you at Flexport we have some amazing women. I'm so excited to get to know all. I've not been there that long yet, but I'm getting to know we have some, we have a very diverse leadership team between men and women at Dave's level. I have some unbelievable women on my team directly that I'm getting to know more, and I'm so impressed with what they're doing. And this is a very, you know, while this industry is different than the world I live in day to day, it's also has a lot of common themes to it. So, you know, for us, we're trying to approach every day by saying, let's make sure both our interviewing cycles, the jobs we feel, how we recruit people, how we put people out there on the platforms, that we have diversity and inclusion and all of that every day. And I can tell you from the top, from Dave and all of our leaders, we just had an offsite and we had a big conversation about this is something. It's a drum beat that we have to think about and live by every day and really check ourselves on a regular basis. But I do think there's so much more room for women in the world to do great things. And one of the, one of the areas, as you know very well, we lost a lot of women during COVID, who just left the workforce again. So we kind of went back unfortunately. So we have to now move forward and make sure that we are giving women the opportunity to have great jobs, have the flexibility they need as they build a family, and have a workplace environment that is trusted for them to come into every day. >> There's now clear visibility, at least in today's world, not withstanding some of the setbacks from COVID, that a young girl can look out in a company and see a path from entry level to the boardroom. That's a big change. A lot than even going back 10, 15, 20 years ago. What's your advice to the folks out there that are paying it forward? You see a lot of executive leaderships have a seat at the table. The board still underrepresented by most numbers, but at least you have now kind of this solidarity at the top, but a lot of people doing a lot more now than I've seen at the next levels down. So now you have this leveled approach. Is that something that you're seeing more of? And credit compare and contrast that to 20 years ago when you were, you know, rising through the ranks? What's different? >> Well, one of the main things, and I honestly do not think about it too much, but there were really no women. There were none. When I showed up in the meetings, I literally, it was me or not me at the table, but at the seat behind the table. The women just weren't in the room, and there were so many more barriers that we had to push through, and that has changed a lot. I mean globally that has changed a lot in the U.S. You know, if you look at just our U.S. House of Representatives and our U.S. Senate, we now have the increasing number of women. Even at leadership levels, you're seeing that change. You have a lot more women on boards than we ever thought we would ever represent. While we are not there, more female CEOs that I get an opportunity to see and talk to. Women starting companies, they do not see the barriers. And I will share, John, globally in the U.S. one of the things that I still see that we have that many other countries don't have, which I'm very proud of, women in the U.S. have a spirit about them that they just don't see the barriers in the same way. They believe that they can accomplish anything. I have two sons, I don't have daughters. I have nieces, and I'm hoping someday to have granddaughters. But I know that a lot of my friends who have granddaughters today talk about the boldness, the fortitude, that they believe that there's nothing they can't accomplish. And I think that's what what we have to instill in every little girl out there, that they can accomplish anything they want to. The world is theirs, and we need to not just do that in the U.S., but around the world. And it was always the thing that struck me when I did all my travels at AWS and now with Flexport, I'm traveling again quite a bit, is just the differences you see in the cultures around the world. And I remember even in the Middle East, how I started seeing it change. You've heard me talk a lot on this program about the fact in both Saudi and Bahrain, over 60% of the tech workers were females and most of them held the the hardest jobs, the security, the architecture, the engineering. But many of them did not hold leadership roles. And that is what we've got to change too. To your point, the middle, we want it to get bigger, but the top, we need to get bigger. We need to make sure women globally have opportunities to hold the most precious leadership roles and demonstrate their capabilities at the very top. But that's changed. And I would say the biggest difference is when we show up, we're actually evaluated properly for those kind of roles. We have a ways to go. But again, that part is really changing. >> Can you share, Teresa, first of all, that's great work you've done and I wan to give you props of that as well and all the work you do. I know you champion a lot of, you know, causes in in this area. One question that comes up a lot, I would love to get your opinion 'cause I think you can contribute heavily here is mentoring and sponsorship is huge, comes up all the time. What advice would you share to folks out there who were, I won't say apprehensive, but maybe nervous about how to do the networking and sponsorship and mentoring? It's not just mentoring, it's sponsorship too. What's your best practice? What advice would you give for the best way to handle that? >> Well yeah, and for the women out there, I would say on the mentorship side, I still see mentorship. Like, I don't think you can ever stop having mentorship. And I like to look at my mentors in different parts of my life because if you want to be a well-rounded person, you may have parts of your life every day that you think I'm doing a great job here and I definitely would like to do better there. Whether it's your spiritual life, your physical life, your work life, you know, your leisure life. But I mean there's, and there's parts of my leadership world that I still seek advice from as I try to do new things even in this world. And I tried some new things in between roles. I went out and asked the people that I respected the most. So I just would say for sure have different mentorships and don't be afraid to have that diversity. But if you have mentorships, the second important thing is show up with a real agenda and questions. Don't waste people's time. I'm very sensitive today. If you're, if you want a mentor, you show up and you use your time super effectively and be prepared for that. Sponsorship is a very different thing. And I don't believe we actually do that still in companies. We worked, thank goodness for my great HR team. When I was at AWS, we worked on a few sponsorship programs where for diversity in general, where we would nominate individuals in the company that we felt that weren't, that had a lot of opportunity for growth, but they just weren't getting a seat at the table. And we brought 'em to the table. And we actually kind of had a Chatham House rules where when they came into the meetings, they had a sponsor, not a mentor. They had a sponsor that was with them the full 18 months of this program. We would bring 'em into executive meetings. They would read docs, they could ask questions. We wanted them to be able to open up and ask crazy questions without, you know, feeling wow, I just couldn't answer this question in a normal environment or setting. And then we tried to make sure once they got through the program that we found jobs and support and other special projects that they could go do. But they still had that sponsor and that group of individuals that they'd gone through the program with, John, that they could keep going back to. And I remember sitting there and they asked me what I wanted to get out of the program, and I said two things. I want you to leave this program and say to yourself, I would've never had that experience if I hadn't gone through this program. I learned so much in 18 months. It would probably taken me five years to learn. And that it helped them in their career. The second thing I told them is I wanted them to go out and recruit individuals that look like them. I said, we need diversity, and unless you all feel that we are in an inclusive environment sponsoring all types of individuals to be part of this company, we're not going to get the job done. And they said, okay. And you know, but it was really one, it was very much about them. That we took a group of individuals that had high potential and a very diverse with diverse backgrounds, held 'em up, taught 'em things that gave them access. And two, selfishly I said, I want more of you in my business. Please help me. And I think those kind of things are helpful, and you have to be thoughtful about these kind of programs. And to me that's more sponsorship. I still have people reach out to me from years ago, you know, Microsoft saying, you were so good with me, can you give me a reference now? Can you talk to me about what I should be doing? And I try to, I'm not pray 100%, some things pray fall through the cracks, but I always try to make the time to talk to those individuals because for me, I am where I am today because I got some of the best advice from people like Don Byrne and Linda Zecker and Andy Jassy, who were very honest and upfront with me about my career. >> Awesome. Well, you got a passion for empowering women in tech, paying it forward, but you're quite accomplished and that's why we're so glad to have you on the program here. President and Chief Commercial Officer at Flexport. Obviously storied career and your other jobs, specifically Amazon I think, is historic in my mind. This next chapter looks like it's looking good right now. Final question for you, for the few minutes you have left. Tell us what you're up to at Flexport. What's your goals as President, Chief Commercial Officer? What are you trying to accomplish? Share a little bit, what's on your mind with your current job? >> Well, you kind of said it earlier. I think if I look at my own superpowers, I love customers, I love partners. I get my energy, John, from those interactions. So one is to come in and really help us build even a better world class enterprise global sales and marketing team. Really listen to our customers, think about how we interact with them, build the best executive programs we can, think about new ways that we can offer services to them and create new services. One of my favorite things about my career is I think if you're a business leader, it's your job to come back around and tell your product group and your services org what you're hearing from customers. That's how you can be so much more impactful, that you listen, you learn, and you deliver. So that's one big job. The second job for me, which I am so excited about, is that I have an amazing group called flexport.org under me. And flexport.org is doing amazing things around the world to help those in need. We just announced this new funding program for Tech for Refugees, which brings assistance to millions of people in Ukraine, Pakistan, the horn of Africa, and those who are affected by earthquakes. We just took supplies into Turkey and Syria, and Flexport, recently in fact, just did sent three air shipments to Turkey and Syria for these. And I think we did over a hundred trekking shipments to get earthquake relief. And as you can imagine, it was not easy to get into Syria. But you know, we're very active in the Ukraine, and we are, our goal for flexport.org, John, is to continue to work with our commercial customers and team up with them when they're trying to get supplies in to do that in a very cost effective, easy way, as quickly as we can. So that not-for-profit side of me that I'm so, I'm so happy. And you know, Ryan Peterson, who was our founder, this was his brainchild, and he's really taken this to the next level. So I'm honored to be able to pick that up and look for new ways to have impact around the world. And you know, I've always found that I think if you do things right with a company, you can have a beautiful combination of commercial-ity and giving. And I think Flexport does it in such an amazing and unique way. >> Well, the impact that they have with their system and their technology with logistics and shipping and supply chain is a channel for societal change. And I think that's a huge gift that you have that under your purview. So looking forward to finding out more about flexport.org. I can only imagine all the exciting things around sustainability, and we just had Mobile World Congress for Big Cube Broadcast, 5Gs right around the corner. I'm sure that's going to have a huge impact to your business. >> Well, for sure. And just on gas emissions, that's another thing that we are tracking gas, greenhouse gas emissions. And in fact we've already reduced more than 300,000 tons and supported over 600 organizations doing that. So that's a thing we're also trying to make sure that we're being climate aware and ensuring that we are doing the best job we can at that as well. And that was another thing I was honored to be able to do when we were at AWS, is to really cut out greenhouse gas emissions and really go global with our climate initiatives. >> Well Teresa, it's great to have you on. Security, data, 5G, sustainability, business transformation, AI all coming together to change the game. You're in another hot seat, hot roll, big wave. >> Well, John, it's an honor, and just thank you again for doing this and having women on and really representing us in a big way as we celebrate International Women's Day. >> I really appreciate it, it's super important. And these videos have impact, so we're going to do a lot more. And I appreciate your leadership to the industry and thank you so much for taking the time to contribute to our effort. Thank you, Teresa. >> Thank you. Thanks everybody. >> Teresa Carlson, the President and Chief Commercial Officer of Flexport. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. This is International Women's Day broadcast. Thanks for watching. (upbeat outro music)

>>Good afternoon everyone, and thank you so much for joining us. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by my co-host Paul for the afternoon. Very excited. Oh, Savannah. Hello. I'm, I'm pumped for this. This is our first bit together. Exactly. >>It's gonna be fun. Yes. We have a great guest to kick off with. >>We absolutely do. We're at Supercomputing 2022 today, and very excited to talk to our next guest. We're gonna be talking about data at scale and data that really matters to us joining us. Kelly Gayer, thank you so much for being here and you are with tech. Tell everyone what TAC is. >>Tech is the Texas Advanced Computing Center at the University of Texas at Austin. And thank you so much for having me here. >>It is wonderful to have you. Your smile's contagious. And one of the themes that's come up a lot with all of our guests, and we just talked about it, is how good it is to be back in person, how good it is to be around our hardware, community tech. You did some very interesting research during the pandemic. Can you tell us about that? >>I can. I did. So when we realized sort of mid-March, we realized that, that this was really not normal times and the pandemic was statement. Yes. That pandemic was really gonna touch everyone. I think a lot of us at the center and me personally, we dropped everything to plug in and that's what we do. So UT's tagline is what starts here changes the world and tax tagline is powering discoveries that change the world. So we're all about impact, but I plugged in with the research group there at UT Austin, Dr. Lauren Myers, who's an epidemiologist, and just we figured out how to plug in and compute so that we could predict the spread of, of Covid 19. >>And you did that through the use of mobility data, cell phone signals. Tell us more about what exactly you were choreographing. >>Yeah, so that was really interesting. Safe graph during the pandemic made their mobility data. Typically it was used for marketing purposes to know who was going into Walmart. The offenses >>For advertising. >>Absolutely, yeah. They made all of their mobility data available for free to people who were doing research and plugging in trying to understand Covid. 19, I picked that data up and we used it as a proxy for human behavior. So we knew we had some idea, we got weekly mobility updates, but it was really mobility all day long, you know, anonymized. I didn't know who they were by cell phones across the US by census block group or zip code if we wanted to look at it that way. And we could see how people were moving around. We knew what their neighbor, their home neighborhoods were. We knew how they were traveling or not traveling. We knew where people were congregating, and we could get some idea of, of how people were behaving. Were they really, were they really locking down or were they moving in their neighborhoods or were they going outside of their neighborhoods? >>What a, what a fascinating window into our pandemic lives. So now that you were able to do this for this pandemic, as we look forward, what have you learned? How quickly could we forecast? What's the prognosis? >>Yeah, so we, we learned a tremendous amount. I think during the pandemic we were reacting, we were really trying. It was a, it was an interesting time as a scientist, we were reacting to things almost as if the earth was moving underneath us every single day. So it was something new every day. And I've told people since I've, I haven't, I haven't worked that hard since I was a graduate student. So it was really daylight to dark 24 7 for a long period of time because it was so important. And we knew, we, we knew we were, we were being a part of history and affecting something that was gonna make a difference for a really long time. And, and I think what we've learned is that indeed there is a lot of data being collected that we can use for good. We can really understand if we get organized and we get set up, we can use this data as a means of perhaps predicting our next pandemic or our next outbreak of whatever. It is almost like using it as a canary in the coal mine. There's a lot in human behavior we can use, given >>All the politicization of, of this last pandemic, knowing what we know now, making us better prepared in theory for the next one. How confident are you that at least in the US we will respond proactively and, and effectively when the next one comes around? >>Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a great question and, and I certainly understand why you ask. I think in my experience as a scientist, certainly at tech, the more transparent you are with what you do and the more you explain things. Again, during the pandemic, things were shifting so rapidly we were reacting and doing the best that we could. And I think one thing we did right was we admitted where we felt uncertain. And that's important. You have to really be transparent to the general public. I, I don't know how well people are gonna react. I think if we have time to prepare, to communicate and always be really transparent about it. I think those are three factors that go into really increasing people's trust. >>I think you nailed it. And, and especially during times of chaos and disaster, you don't know who to trust or what to believe. And it sounds like, you know, providing a transparent source of truth is, is so critical. How do you protect the sensitive data that you're working with? I know it's a top priority for you and the team. >>It is, it is. And we, we've adopted the medical mantra, do no harm. So we have, we feel a great responsibility there. There's, you know, two things that you have to really keep in mind when you've got sensitive data. One is the physical protection of it. And so that's, that's governed by rule, federal rules, hipaa, ferpa, whatever, whatever kind of data that you have. So we certainly focus on the physical protection of it, but there's also sort of the ethical protection of it. What, what is the quote? There's lies, damn lies and statistics. >>Yes. Twain. >>Yeah. So you, you really have to be responsible with what you're doing with the data, how you're portraying the results. And again, I think it comes back to transparency is is basically if people are gonna reproduce what I did, I have to be really transparent with what I did. >>I, yeah, I think that's super important. And one of the themes with, with HPC that we've been talking about a lot too is, you know, do people trust ai? Do they trust all the data that's going into these systems? And I love that you just talked about the storytelling aspect of that, because there is a duty, it's not, you can cut data kind of however you want. I mean, I come from marketing background and we can massage it to, to do whatever we want. So in addition to being the deputy director at Tech, you are also the DEI officer. And diversity I know is important to you probably both as an individual, but also in the work that you're doing. Talk to us about that. >>Yeah, I mean, I, I very passionate about diversity, equity and inclusion in a sense of belongingness. I think that's one of the key aspects of it. Core >>Of community too. >>I got a computer science degree back in the eighties. I was akin to a unicorn in a, in an engineering computer science department. And, but I was really lucky in a couple of respects. I had a, I had a father that was into science that told me I could do anything I, I wanted to set my mind to do. So that was my whole life, was really having that support system. >>He was cheers to dad. >>Yeah. Oh yeah. And my mom as well, actually, you know, they were educators. I grew up, you know, in that respect, very, very privileged, but it was still really hard to make it. And I couldn't have told you back in that time why I made it and, and others didn't, why they dropped out. But I made it a mission probably back, gosh, maybe 10, 15 years ago, that I was really gonna do all that I could to change the needle. And it turns out that there are a number of things that you can do grassroots. There are certainly best practices. There are rules and there are things that you really, you know, best practices to follow to make people feel more included in an organization, to feel like they belong it, shared mission. But there are also clever things that you can do with programming to really engage students, to meet people and students where they are interested and where they are engaged. And I think that's what, that's what we've done over, you know, the course of our programming over the course of about maybe since 2016. We have built a lot of programming ATAC that really focuses on that as well, because I'm determined the needle is gonna change before it's all said and done. It just really has to. >>So what, what progress have you made and what goals have you set in this area? >>Yeah, that, that's a great question. So, you know, at first I was a little bit reluctant to set concrete goals because I really didn't know what we could accomplish. I really wasn't sure what grassroots efforts was gonna be able to, you're >>So honest, you can tell how transparent you are with the data as well. That's >>Great. Yeah, I mean, if I really, most of the successful work that I've done is both a scientist and in the education and outreach space is really trust relationships. If I break that trust, I'm done. I'm no longer effective. So yeah, I am really transparent about it. But, but what we did was, you know, the first thing we did was we counted, you know, to the extent that we could, what does the current picture look like? Let's be honest about it. Start where we are. Yep. It was not a pretty picture. I mean, we knew that anecdotally it was not gonna be a great picture, but we put it out there and we leaned into it. We said, this is what it is. We, you know, I hesitated to say we're gonna look 10% better next year because I'm, I'm gonna be honest, I don't always know we're gonna do our best. >>The things that I think we did really well was that we stopped to take time to talk and find out what people were interested in. It's almost like being present and listening. My grandmother had a saying, you have two errors in one mouth for a reason, just respect the ratio. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And I think it's just been building relationships, building trust, really focusing on making a difference, making it a priority. And I think now what we're doing is we've been successful in pockets of people in the center and we are, we are getting everybody on board. There's, there's something everyone can do, >>But the problem you're addressing doesn't begin in college. It begins much, much, that's right. And there's been a lot of talk about STEM education, particularly for girls, how they're pushed out of the system early on. Also for, for people of color. Do you see meaningful progress being made there now after years of, of lip service? >>I do. I do. But it is, again, grassroots. We do have a, a, a researcher who was a former teacher at the center, Carol Fletcher, who is doing research and for CS for all we know that the workforce, so if you work from the current workforce, her projected workforce backwards, we know that digital skills of some kind are gonna be needed. We also know we have a, a, a shortage. There's debate on how large that shortage is, but about roughly about 1 million unmet jobs was projected in 2020. It hasn't gotten a lot better. We can work that problem backwards. So what we do there is a little, like a scatter shot approach. We know that people come in all forms, all shapes, all sizes. They get interested for all different kinds of reasons. We expanded our set of pathways so that we can get them where they can get on to the path all the way back K through 12, that's Carol's work. Rosie Gomez at the center is doing sort of the undergraduate space. We've got Don Hunter that does it, middle school, high school space. So we are working all parts of the problem. I am pretty passionate about what we consider opportunity youth people who never had the opportunity to go to college. Is there a way that we can skill them and get, get them engaged in some aspect and perhaps get them into this workforce. >>I love that you're starting off so young. So give us an example of one of those programs. What are you talking to kindergartners about when it comes to CS education? >>You know, I mean, gaming. Yes. Right. It's what everybody can wrap their head around. So most kids have had some sort of gaming device. You talk in the context, in the context of something they understand. I'm not gonna talk to them about high performance computing. It, it would go right over their heads. And I think, yeah, you know, I, I'll go back to something that you said Paul, about, you know, girls were pushed out. I don't know that girls are being pushed out. I think girls aren't interested and things that are being presented and I think they, I >>Think you're generous. >>Yeah. I mean, I was a young girl and I don't know why I stayed. Well, I do know why I stayed with it because I had a father that saw something in me and I had people at critical points in my life that saw something in me that I didn't see. But I think if we ch, if we change the way we teach it, maybe in your words they don't get pushed out or they, or they won't lose interest. There's, there's some sort of computing in everything we do. Well, >>Absolutely. There's also the bro culture, which begins at a very early >>Age. Yeah, that's a different problem. Yeah. That's just having boys in the classroom. Absolutely. You got >>It. That's a whole nother case. >>That's a whole other thing. >>Last question for you, when we are sitting here, well actually I've got, it's two parter, let's put it that way. Is there a tool or something you wish you could flick a magic wand that would make your job easier? Where you, you know, is there, can you identify the, the linchpin in the DEI challenge? Or is it all still prototyping and iterating to figure out the best fit? >>Yeah, that is a, that's a wonderful question. I can tell you what I get frustrated with is that, that >>Counts >>Is that I, I feel like a lot of people don't fully understand the level of effort and engagement it takes to do something meaningful. The >>Commitment to a program, >>The commitment to a program. Totally agree. It's, there is no one and done. No. And in fact, if I do that, I will lose them forever. They'll be, they will, they will be lost in the space forever. Rather. The engagement is really sort of time intensive. It's relationship intensive, but there's a lot of follow up too. And the, the amount of funding that goes into this space really is not, it, it, it's not equal to the amount of time and effort that it really takes. And I think, you know, I think what you work in this space, you realize that what you gain is, is really more of, it's, it really feels good to make a difference in somebody's life, but it's really hard to do on a shoer budget. So if I could kind of wave a magic wand, yes, I would increase understanding. I would get people to understand that it's all of our responsibility. Yes, everybody is needed to make the difference and I would increase the funding that goes to the programs. >>I think that's awesome, Kelly, thank you for that. You all heard that. More funding for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Please Paul, thank you for a fantastic interview, Kelly. Hopefully everyone is now inspired to check out tac perhaps become a, a Longhorn, hook 'em and, and come deal with some of the most important data that we have going through our systems and predicting the future of our pandemics. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us online. We are here in Dallas, Texas at Supercomputing. My name is Savannah Peterson and I look forward to seeing you for our next segment.

>>Hello and welcome back to the live coverage of the Cube here. Live in Detroit, Michigan for Cub Con, our seventh year covering all seven years. The cube has been here. M John Fur, host of the Cube, co-founder of the Cube. I'm here with Lisa Mart, my co-host, and our new host, Savannah Peterson. Great to see you guys. We're wrapping up day one of three days of coverage, and our guest analyst is Sario Wall, who's the cube analyst who's gonna give us his report. He's been out all day, ear to the ground in the sessions, peeking in, sneaking in, crashing him, getting all the data. Great to see you, Sarvi. Lisa Savannah, let's wrap this puppy up. >>I am so excited to be here. My first coupon with the cube and being here with you and Lisa has just been a treat. I can't wait to hear what you have to say in on the report side. And I mean, I have just been reflecting, it was last year's coupon that brought me to you, so I feel so lucky. So much can change in a year, folks. You never know where you're be. Wherever you're sitting today, you could be living your dreams in just a few >>Months. Lisa, so much has changed. I mean, just look at the past this year. Events we're back in person. Yeah. Yep. This is a big team here. They're still wearing masks, although we can take 'em off with a cube. But mask requirement. Tech has changed. Conversations are upleveling, skill gaps still there. So much has changed. >>So much has changed. There's so much evolution and so much innovation that we've also seen. You know, we started out the keynote this morning, standing room. Only thousands of people are here. Even though there's a mass requirement, the community that is CNCF Co Con is stronger than I, stronger than I saw it last year. This is only my second co con. But the collaboration, what they've done, their devotion to the maintainers, their devotion to really finding mentors for mentees was really a strong message this morning. And we heard a >>Lot of that today. And it's going beyond Kubernetes, even though it's called co con. I also call it cloud native con, which I think we'll probably end up being the name because at the end of day, the cloud native scaling, you're starting to see the pressure points. You're start to see where things are breaking, where automation's coming in, breaking in a good way. And we're gonna break it all down Again. So much going on again, I've overs gonna be in charge. Digital is transformation. If you take it to its conclusion, then you will see that the developers are running the business. It isn't a department, it's not serving the business, it is the business. If that's the case, everything has to change. And we're, we're happy to have Sarib here with us Cube analysts on the badge. I saw that with the press pass. Well, >>Thank you. Thanks for getting me that badge. So I'm here with you guys and >>Well, you got a rapport. Let's get into it. You, I >>Know. Let's hear what you gotta say. I'm excited. >>Yeah. Went around, actually attend some sessions and, and with the analysts were sitting in, in the media slash press, and I spoke to some people at their booth and the, there are a few, few patterns, you know, which are, some are the exaggeration of existing patterns or some are kind of new patterns emerging. So things are getting complex in open source. The lawn more projects, right. They have, the CNCF has graduated some projects even after graduation, they're, they're exploring, right? Kubernetes is one of those projects which has graduated. And on that front, just a side note, the new projects where, which are entering the cncf, they're the, we, we gotta see that process and the three stages and all that stuff. I tweeted all day long, if you wanna know what it is, you can look at my tweets. But when I will look, actually write right on that actually after, after the show ends, what, what I saw there, these new projects need to be curated properly. >>I think they need to be weed. There's a lot of noise in these projects. There's a lot of overlap. So the, the work is cut out for CNCF folks, by the way. They're sort of managerial committee or whatever you call that. The, the people who are leading it, they're try, I think they're doing their best and they're doing a good job of that. And another thing actually, I really liked in the morning's keynote was that lot of women on the stage and minorities represented. I loved it, to be honest with you. So believe me, I'm a minority even though I'm Indian, but from India, I'm a minority. So people who have Punjab either know that I'm a minority, so I, I understand their pain and how hard it is to, to break through the ceiling and all that. So I love that part as well. Yeah, the >>Activity is clear. Yeah. From day one. It's in the, it's in the dna. I mean, they'll reject anything that the opposite >>Representation too. I mean, it's not just that everyone's invited, it's they're celebrated and that's a very big difference. Yeah. It's, you see conferences offer discounts for women for tickets or minorities, but you don't necessarily see them put them running where their mouth is actually recruit the right women to be on stage. Right. Something you know a little bit about John >>Diversity brings better outcomes, better product perspectives. The product is better with all the perspectives involved. Percent, it might go a little slower, maybe a little debates, but it's all good. I mean, it's, to me, the better product comes when everyone's in. >>I hope you didn't just imply that women would make society. So >>I think John men, like slower means a slower, >>More diversity, more debate, >>The worst. Bringing the diversity into picture >>Wine. That's, that's how good groups, which is, which is >>Great. I mean, yeah, yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. I, I take that mulligan back and say, hey, you knows >>That's >>Just, it's gonna go so much faster and better and cheaper, but that not diversity. Absolutely. >>Yes. Well, you make better products faster because you have a variety >>Of perspectives. The bigger the group, there's more debate. More debate is key. But the key to success is aligning and committing. Absolutely. Once you have that, and that's what open sources has been about for. Oh God, yeah. Generations >>Has been a huge theme in the >>Show generations. All right, so, so, >>So you have to add another, like another important, so observation if you will, is that the security is, is paramount right. Requirement, especially for open source. There was a stat which was presented in the morning that 60% of the projects in under CNCF have more vulnerabilities today than they had last year. So that was, That's shocking actually. It's a big jump. It's a big jump. Like big jump means jump, jump means like it can be from from 40 to 60 or or 50 or 60. But still that percentage is high. What, what that means is that lot more people are contributing. It's very sort of di carmic or ironic that we say like, Oh this project has 10,000 contributors. Is that a good thing? Right. We do. Do we know the quality of that, where they're coming from? Are there any back doors being, you know, open there? How stringent is the process of rolling those things, which are being checked in, into production? You know, who is doing that? I've >>Wondered about that. Yeah. The quantity, quality, efficacy game. Yes. And what a balance that must be for someone like CNCF putting in the structure to try and >>That's >>Hard. Curate and regulate and, and you know, provide some bumpers on the bowling lane, so to speak, of, of all of these projects. Yeah. >>Yeah. We thought if anybody thought that the innovation coming from, or the number of services coming from AWS or Google Cloud or likes of them is overwhelming, look at open source, it's even more >>Overwhelming. What's your take on the supply chain discussion? More code more happening. What are you hearing there? >>The supply chain from the software? Yeah. >>Supply chain software, supply chain security pays. Are people talking about that? What are you >>Seeing? Yeah, actually people are talking about that. The creation, the curation, not creation. Curation of suppliers of software I think is best done in the cloud. Marketplaces Ive call biased or what, you know, but curation of open source is hard. It's hard to know which project to pick. It's hard to know which project will pan out. Many of the good projects don't see the day light of the day, but some decent ones like it becomes >>A marketing problem. Exactly. The more you have out there. Exactly. The more you gotta get above the noise. Exactly. And the noise echo that. And you got, you got GitHub stars, you got contributors, you have vanity metrics now coming in to this that are influencing what's real. But sometimes the best project could have smaller groups. >>Yeah, exactly. And another controversial thing a little bit I will say that is that there's a economics of the practitioner, right? I usually talk about that and economics of the, the enterprise, right? So practitioners in our world, in software world especially right in systems world, practitioners are changing jobs every two to three years. And number of developers doubles every three years. That's the stat I've seen from Uncle Bob. He's authority on that software side of things. Wow. So that means there's a lot more new entrance that means a lot of churn. So who is watching out for the enterprise enterprises economics, You know, like are we creating stable enterprises? How stable are our operations? On a side note to that, most of us see the software as like one band, which is not true. When we talk about all these roles and personas, somebody's writing software for, for core layer, which is the infrastructure part. Somebody's writing business applications, somebody's writing, you know, systems of bracket, some somebody's writing systems of differentiation. We talk about those things. We need to distinguish between those and have principle based technology consumption, which I usually write about in our Oh, >>So bottom line in Europe about it, in your opinion. Yeah. What's the top story here at coupon? >>Top story is >>Headline. Yeah, >>The, the headline. Okay. The open source cannot be ignored. That's a headline. >>And what should people be paying attention to if there's a trend coming out? See any kind of trends coming out or any kind of signal, What, what do you see that people should pay attention to here? The put top >>Two, three things. The signal is that, that if you are a big shop, like you'd need to assess your like capacity to absorb open source. You need to be certain size to absorb the open source. If you are below that threshold, I mean we can talk about that at some other time. Like what is that threshold? I will suggest you to go with the managed services from somebody, whoever is providing those managed services around open source. So manage es, right? So from, take it from aws, Google Cloud or Azure or IBM or anybody, right? So use open source as managed offering rather than doing it yourself. Because doing it yourself is a lot more heavy lifting. >>I I, >>There's so many thoughts coming, right? >>Mind it's, >>So I gotta ask you, what's your rapport? You have some swag, What's the swag look >>Like to you? I do. Just as serious of a report as you do on the to floor, but I do, so you know, I come from a marketing background and as I, I know that Lisa does as well. And one of the things that I think about that we touched on in this is, is you know, canceling the noise or standing out from the noise and, and on a show floor, that's actually a huge challenge for these startups, especially when you're up against a rancher or companies or a Cisco with a very large budget. And let's say you've only got a couple grand for an activation here. Like most of my clients, that's how I ended up in the CU County ecosystem, was here with the A client before. So there actually was a booth over there and I, they didn't quite catch me enough, but they had noise canceling headphones. >>So if you just wanted to take a minute on the show floor and just not hear anything, which I thought was a little bit clever, but gonna take you through some of my favorite swag from today and to all the vendors, you know, this is why you should really put some thought into your swag. You never know when you're gonna end up on the cube. So since most swag is injection molded plastic that's gonna end up in the landfill, I really appreciate that garden has given all of us a potable plant. And even the packaging is plantable, which is very exciting. So most sustainable swag goes to garden. Well done >>Rep replicated, I believe is their name. They do a really good job every year. They had some very funny pins that say a word that, I'm not gonna say live on television, but they have created, they brought two things for us, yet it's replicated little etch sketch for your inner child, which is very nice. And given that we are in Detroit, we are in Motor City, we are in the home of Ford. We had Ford on the show. I love that they have done the custom K eight s key chains in the blue oval logo. Like >>Fords right behind us by the way, and are on you >>Interviewed, we had 'em on earlier GitLab taking it one level more personal and actually giving out digital portraits today. Nice. Cool. Which is quite fun. Get lap house multiple booths here. They actually IPOed while they were on the show floor at CubeCon 2021, which is fun to see that whole gang again. And then last but not least, really embracing the ship wheel logo of a Kubernetes is the robusta accrue that is giving out bucket hats. And if you check out my Twitter at sabba Savvy, you can see me holding the ship wheel that they're letting everyone pose with. So we are all in on Kubernetes. That cove gone 2022, that's for sure. Yeah. >>And this is something, day one guys, we've got three. >>I wanna get one of those >>Hats. We we need to, we need a group photo >>By the end of Friday we will have a beverage and hats on to sign off. That's, that's my word. If I can convince John, >>Don, what's your takeaway? You guys did a great kind of kickoff about last week or so about what you were excited about, what your thoughts were going to be. We're only on day one, There's been thousands of people here, we've had great conversations with contributors, the community. What's your take on day one? What's your, what's your tagline? >>Well, Savannah and I had at we up, we, we were talking about what we might see and I think we, we were right. I think we had it right. There's gonna be a lot more people than there were last year. Okay, check. That's definitely true. We're in >>Person, which >>Is refreshing. I was very surprised about the mask mandate that kind of caught me up guard. I was major. Yeah. Cause I've been comfortable without the mask. I'm not a mask person, but I had to wear it and I was like, ah, mask. But I understand I support that. But whatever. It's >>Corporate travel policy. So you know, that's what it is. >>And then, you know, they, I thought that they did an okay job with the gates, but they wasn't slow like last time. But on the content side, definitely Kubernetes security, top line headline, Kubernetes at scale security, that's, that's to me the bumper sticker top things to pay attention to the supply chain and the role of docker and the web assembly was a surprise. You're starting to see containers ecosystem coming back to, I won't say tension growth in the functionality of containers cuz they have to solve the security problem in the container images. Okay, you got scanning technology so it's a little bit in the weeds, but there's a huge movement going on to fix that problem to scale it so it's not a problem area contain. And then Dr sent a great job with productivity interviews. Scott Johnston over a hundred million in revenue so far. That's my number. They have not publicly said that. That's what I'm reporting from sources extremely well financially. And they, and they love their business model. They make productivity for developers. That's a scoop. That's new >>Information. That's a nice scoop we just dropped there on the co casually. >>You're watching that. Pay attention to that. But that, that's proof. But guess what, Red Hat's got developers too. Yes. Other people have to, So developers gonna go where it's the best. Yeah. Developers are voting with their code, they're voting with their feet. You will see the winners with the developers and that's what we've talked about. >>Well and the companies are catering to the developers. Savannah and I had a great conversation with Ford. Yeah. You saw, you showed their fantastic swag was an E for Ev right behind us. They were talking about the, all the cultural changes that they've really focused on to cater towards the developers. The developers becoming the influencers as you say. But to see a company that is as, as historied as Ford Motor Company and what they're doing to attract and retain developer talent was impressive. And honestly that surprised me. Yeah. >>And their head of deb relations has been working for, for, for 29 years. Which I mean first of all, most companies on the show floor haven't been around for 29 years. Right. But what I love is when you put community first, you get employees to stick around. And I think community is one of the biggest themes here at Cuco. >>Great. My, my favorite story that surprised me and was cool was the Red Hat Lockheed Martin interview where they had edge deployments with micro edge, >>Micro shift, >>Micro >>Shift, new projects under, there's, there are three new projects under, >>Under that was so, so cool because it was an edge story in deployment for the military where lives are on the line, they actually had it working. That is a real world example of Kubernetes and tech orchestrating to deploy the industrial edge. And I think that's proof in my mind that Kubernetes and this ecosystem is gonna move faster through this next wave of growth. Because once things start clicking, you get hybrid on premise to super cloud and edge. That was, that was my favorite cause it was real. That was real >>Story that it can make is literally life and death on the battlefield. Yeah, that was amazing. With what they're doing and what >>They're talking check out the Lockheed Martin Red Hat edge story on Silicon Angle and then a press release all pillar. >>Yeah. Another actually it's impressive, which we knew this which is happening, but I didn't know that it was happening at this scale is the finops. The finops is, I saw your is a discipline which most companies are adopting bigger companies, which are spending like hundreds of millions dollars in cloud average. Si a team size of finops for finops is seven people. And average number of tools is I think 3.5 or around 3.7 or something like that. Average number of tools they use to control the cost. So finops is a very generic term for years. It's not financial operations, it's the financial operations for the cloud cost, you know, containing the cloud costs. So that's a finops that is a very emerging sort of discipline >>To keep an eye on. And well, not only is that important, I talked to, well one of the principles over there, it's growing and they have real big players in that foundation. Their, their events are highly attended. It's super important. It's just, it's the cost side of cloud. And, and of course, you know, everyone wants to know what's going on. No one wants to leave there. Their Amazon on Yeah, you wanna leave the lights on the cloud, as we always say, you never know what the bill's gonna look like. >>The cloud is gonna reach $3 billion in next few years. So we might as well control the cost there. Yeah, >>It was, it was funny to get the reaction I found, I don't know if I was, how I react, I dunno how I felt. But we, we did introduce Super Cloud to a couple of guests and a, there were a couple reactions, a couple drawn. There was a couple, right. There was a couple, couple reactions. And what I love about the super cloud is that some people are like, oh, cringing. And some people are like, yeah, go. So it's a, it's a solid debate. It is solid. I saw more in the segments that I did with you together. People leaning in. Yeah. Super fun. We had a couple sum up, we had a couple, we had a couple cringes, I'll say their names, but I'll go back and make sure I, >>I think people >>Get 'em later. I think people, >>I think people cringe on the, on the term not on the idea. Yeah. You know, so the whole idea is that we are building top of the cloud >>And then so I mean you're gonna like this, I did successfully introduce here on the cube, a new term called architectural list. He did? That's right. Okay. And I wanna thank Charles Fitzgerald for that cuz he called super cloud architectural list. And that's exactly the point of super cloud. If you have a great coding environment, you shouldn't have to do an architecture to do. You should code and let the architecture of the Super cloud make it happen. And of course Brian Gracely, who will be on tomorrow at his cloud cast said Super Cloud enables super services. Super Cloud enables what Super services, super service. The microservices underneath the covers have to be different. High performing, automated. So again, the debate and Susan, the goal is to keep it open. And that's our, that's our goal. But we had a lot of fun with that. It was fun to poke the bear a little bit. So >>What is interesting to see just how people respond to it too, with you throwing it out there so consistently, >>You wanna poke the bear, get a conversation going, you know, let let it go. We'll see, it's been positive so far. >>There, there I had a discussion outside somebody who is from Ford but not attending this conference and they have been there for a while. I, I just some moment hit like me, like I said, people, okay, technologists are horizontal, the codes are horizontal. They will go from four to GM to Chrysler to Bank of America to, you know, GE whatever, you know, like cross vertical within vertical different vendors. So, but the culture of a company is local, right? Right. Ford has been building cars for forever. They sort of democratize it. They commercialize it, right? But they have some intense culture. It's hard to change those cultures. And how do we bring in the new thinking? What is, what approach that should be? Is it a sandbox approach for like putting new sensors on the car? They have to compete with te likes our Tesla, right? Yeah. But they cannot, if they are afraid of deluding their existing market or they're afraid of failure there, right? So it's very >>Tricky. Great stuff. Sorry. Great to have you on as our cube analyst breaking down the stories. We'll document that, that we'll roll out a post on it. Lisa Savannah, let's wrap up the show for day one. We got day two and three. We'll start with you. What's your summary? Quick bumper sticker. What's today's show all about? >>I'm a community first gal and this entire experience is about community and it's really nice to see the community come together, celebrate that, share ideas, and to have our community together on stage. >>Yeah. To me, to me it was all real. It's happening. Kubernetes cloud native at scale, it's happening, it's real. And we see proof points and we're gonna have faster time to value. It's gonna accelerate faster from here. >>The proof points, the impact is real. And we saw that in some amazing stories. And this is just a one of the cubes >>Coverage. Ib final word on this segment was well >>Said Lisa. Yeah, I, I think I, I would repeat what I said. I got eight, nine years back at a rack space conference. Open source is amazing for one biggest reason. It gives the ability to the developing nations to be at somewhat at par where the dev develop nations and, and those people to lift up their masses through the automation. Cuz when automation happens, the corruption goes down and the economy blossoms. And I think it's great and, and we need to do more in it, but we have to be careful about the supply chains around the software so that, so our systems are secure and they are robust. Yeah, >>That's it. Okay. To me for SAR B and my two great co-host, Lisa Martin, Savannah Peterson. I'm John Furry. You're watching the Cube Day one in, in the Books. We'll see you tomorrow, day two Cuban Cloud Native live in Detroit. Thanks for watching.