>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Paolo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only of the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here, Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte. And Don Schmidt is here, who's a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see ya, welcome. >> Good to be here, Dave. >> So Don, I want to start with you. Transformation, everybody talks about that. There's a lot of trends goin' on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah, I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody's been saying they want to get out of their data centers, though leaps haven't really been taking place. They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale of getting out of your data centers is now here. So we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost-efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so that they can move on with their day-to-day business? >> So data centers just not an efficient use of capital for your customers is what you're saying. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get onto innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power, cooling. >> Two very well-known brands, you guys get together. So what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists. And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud when you're trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate the situation? Why would you not partner with an organization if it does large business transformation, like a Deloitte? And so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with a business transformation, pull that together, and back to the one plus one equals three from a customer. That's what they really want. So how to we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application workloads. Our job, what we're really chartered to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations, just the opposite for what Mike just said. So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT. Business-led transformation is kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> So you just described what I would think of as wave one and as you keep peeling, you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have reorganizations. That's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> There's a lot of things you have to sort through and that's where the combined alvic program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools will help make sure we get this right. Deloitte has a product called ATADATA, Oracle has a product called Soar, they marry together properly into this transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right, as well. >> Take me through a typical engagement, typical, I know, in quotes, and then how long? Take me to the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> So we see two different spectrums on a transformation and it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic, dying hardware? Or do you want to take your time and make a little bit more of a transformational journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But in either one of those we'll come in and do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help put the customers through a business case, a TCO, how fast or how slow the journey needs to be for them, create what we call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those, over time, to get out of their data center. In parallel, we're going to be doing, as Mike was saying, around all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skillset for IT to have. They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel. And then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small, little group of safe applications and we can proof out the model works, move those into the Cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale that out at its large pace, get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> Do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that I can do to get started? Maybe do a little test case? Any particular offerings that? >> It's all under the program of Elevate. We've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market to genera, put that in it, as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> The JDE migration, so you've got what? Situations where people have just broken systems? >> Yeah, I would say it's more of a JDE modernization. So you have an organization, right? They may have a JD, a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really, it's older. They may be on version nine or something like that. They don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level of capabilities of Cloud computing: IoT, mobile, et cetera. So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach it together. We work with customers, depending on where they're goin' and going, "Hey, great, you can actually modernize "by taking it up to this version of JDE "through an upgrade process," but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure which allows you to tap into all those platform services, the IoT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various, kind of four major phases that we can do, or entry points with a customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has is a deep JDE and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together. Matter of fact, we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches, here and in our future. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me a lot of companies don't have their data driven. They want to be data driven, but they're not there yet and so their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos, and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives them from data to insight. Is that fair? >> Yeah, fair. Yeah, it's not just doin' reporting and dashboards, it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chain. >> Guys, two powerhouses. Thanks so much for explaining in theCUBE and to our audience it. Appreciate it. >> Appreciate it. >> All right, thank you everybody for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE from Chicago. We'll be right back after this short break. (soft electronic music)

>> Narrator: From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Everybody. Welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron millstone is back, he's the senior vice president of Oracle Consulting. He's joined by Jeff Davis, who's the principal at Deloitte. He's the chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay, is their teeth behind this? So you guys have come up with with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >> Well, elevate, really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure, and Oracle autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together, and we could offer something to our clients and the broad range of Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Deloitte's capabilities which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle Technology, they'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together, we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace. >> One of the things we look forward there, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us that's not just the sales play? >> Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier too, right. So we definitely each had our respective tooling, right on Deloitte investments and tools. One was called ATADATA that we've seen use quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused it's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud, ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte invested in are focused more comprehensively on holistically it looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and starts to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things. And we said, "You know what if you combine these together, "we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly "it is that we're looking at with a customer". So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff, we can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not past or out of supporter, but get a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so you know, we took those tools and we've combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective and quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads we've developed these tools together we're going to market together and we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joined business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers, and therefore then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined. And we even at this you know, we were even Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually we even got a joint, a war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as a call it a, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if we could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, it's well it's definitely starting point right. So we call it a referred to as infrastructure lead transformation. And appetite, the appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there but how do they get out of the data center business holes? So it's sort of it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Or should we invest in up to in our data centers? The question has changed to let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quit frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is you want to move this Oracle workloads to Oracle's cloud, you want to move that Oracle workload over to cloud. And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right again, often, it's a multi cloud strategy and that's okay. And we you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting as these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear. And then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes some very compelling conversations for customers, because you can walk in to a CIO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation underway at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts is let's take some costs right out and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective. Which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology, it's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewable and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today had at a level of security and scalability and ability to run modern technology. Much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey, maybe thinking about a couple of customer sizer specifically or generically, kind of where you're at with them? How far along maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions we're driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more what people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. And but almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity, that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that these days security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >> How do you guys and how to customers want to approach the transaction is it a fixed fee? Is that a TNM? Is it a situation where you participate in some of the savings or the gain? How does the pricing work? >> I'll start off by saying, each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs. What they're trying to get out of it. Right now as an example, Op-X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around Op-X. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just I think, a wide variety. I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like? You know, when you sort of you know, just less than a year in, when you're two, three, four let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like Aaron? >> So to me successful, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion naturally between our organizations not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving organizational behavior right away. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud, and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point three, four or five years from now, right, that'll be a wild success Michael. >> Jeff final comment. Deloitte has been around for 175 years. This is our birthday this year and in that time, What we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client success. Find success means improved scalability of their operations. Securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is, and focus less on technology, that success to Deloitte. >> Great, guys, thanks so much. Great session, we're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming in the cube. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

>> Narrator: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise, brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron Millstone is back, he's the Senior Vice President of Oracle Consulting and he's joined by Jeff Davis whose Principal at Deloitte, he's the Chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals, sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But, so one of the things we look for, okay, is there teeth behind this? Now, you guys have come up with what you call Elevate. What is Elevate, how did it get started? Then I have some follow up questions. >> Well, Elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies. Some of them could be technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients. And the broad rage of Oracle customers in the field, they had access to all of Deloitte's capabilities, which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration and Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together we felt this was really a differentiation for the market place. >> One of the things we look for, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us it's not just a sales play? >> Yeah, sure, and Jeff eluded to some of this earlier too, right. So, we definitely each had our respective tool line, right? Deloitte's investments and tools, one of them's called ATADATA, that we've seen used quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle cloud. ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in are focused more comprehensively on wholistically at looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases we actually looked at these things and we said, you know what if you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is that we're looking at with a customer. So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see on the network, to the specific versions of stuff. We can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not patched or out of support, but again a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools and we combined them together so that we can go in to a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective. And quite frankly it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads, we've developed these tools together, we're going to market together, and we've even got, you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined and we even at this, you know, we were even- Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually, we even got a joint war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing; it's just not a good use of capital today. There are so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as, I'll call it a you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wondered if you could talk about that a little bit, is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, well it's definitely a starting point. So we call it and refer to it as infrastructure lead transformation and the appetite for that is certainly high. We're seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there, but how to they get out of the data center business hole? So it's sort of, it's a forgone conclusion. Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center, or should we invest in up-tooling our data centers? The question has changed to, let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quite frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is: do you want to move this Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? Do you want to move that Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right? Again, often it's a multicloud strategy and that's okay. And we, you know, we're having more-bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal, makes some very compelling conversations for customers cause you can walk in to a CIO, to a CFO and say look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation on Deloitte at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts as let's take some costs right out? And then, Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future, but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud, but there's a natural opportunity for savings and consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability. An ability to run modern technology much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff could you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey maybe thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically, you know, where you're at with them, how far along, maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, And also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding, and one is, each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions are driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we've projected, in some cases we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have, redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that, plus, I can't emphasize enough that, these days, security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves. I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it. Right now, as an example, OPEX is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around OPEX. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just, I think, a wide variety, I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like, you know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in. When you're two, three, four, let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like, Aaron? >> So to me success will, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play, it's in motion naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organizations to behave the right way, it's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads and we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point, three, four, five years from now, that'll be a wild success in my book. >> Jeff? Final thoughts. >> Deloitte's been around for 175 years, this is our birthday, this year. And in that time what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client's success, client's success means improved scalability of their operations, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is and focus less on technology. That's success to Deloitte. >> Great Guys thanks so much, great session. We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on and it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership and thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

>> Narrator: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise, brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron Millstone is back, he's the Senior Vice President of Oracle Consulting and he's joined by Jeff Davis whose Principal at Deloitte, he's the Chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals, sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But, so one of the things we look for, okay, is there teeth behind this? Now, you guys have come up with what you call Elevate. What is Elevate, how did it get started? Then I have some follow up questions. >> Well, Elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies. Some of them could be technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients. And the broad rage of Oracle customers in the field, they had access to all of Deloitte's capabilities, which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration and Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together we felt this was really a differentiation for the market place. >> One of the things we look for, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us it's not just a sales play? >> Yeah, sure, and Jeff eluded to some of this earlier too, right. So, we definitely each had our respective tool line, right? Deloitte's investments and tools, one of them's called ATADATA, that we've seen used quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle cloud. ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in are focused more comprehensively on wholistically at looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases we actually looked at these things and we said, you know what if you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is that we're looking at with a customer. So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see on the network, to the specific versions of stuff. We can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not patched or out of support, but again a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools and we combined them together so that we can go in to a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective. And quite frankly it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads, we've developed these tools together, we're going to market together, and we've even got, you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined and we even at this, you know, we were even- Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually, we even got a joint war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing; it's just not a good use of capital today. There are so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as, I'll call it a you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wondered if you could talk about that a little bit, is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, well it's definitely a starting point. So we call it and refer to it as infrastructure lead transformation and the appetite for that is certainly high. We're seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there, but how to they get out of the data center business hole? So it's sort of, it's a forgone conclusion. Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center, or should we invest in up-tooling our data centers? The question has changed to, let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quite frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is: do you want to move this Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? Do you want to move that Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right? Again, often it's a multicloud strategy and that's okay. And we, you know, we're having more-bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal, makes some very compelling conversations for customers cause you can walk in to a CIO, to a CFO and say look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation on Deloitte at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts as let's take some costs right out? And then, Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future, but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud, but there's a natural opportunity for savings and consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability. An ability to run modern technology much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff could you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey maybe thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically, you know, where you're at with them, how far along, maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, And also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding, and one is, each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions are driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we've projected, in some cases we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have, redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that, plus, I can't emphasize enough that, these days, security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves. I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it. Right now, as an example, OPEX is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around OPEX. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just, I think, a wide variety, I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like, you know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in. When you're two, three, four, let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like, Aaron? >> So to me success will, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play, it's in motion naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organizations to behave the right way, it's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads and we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point, three, four, five years from now, that'll be a wild success in my book. >> Jeff? Final thoughts. >> Deloitte's been around for 175 years, this is our birthday, this year. And in that time what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client's success, client's success means improved scalability of their operations, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is and focus less on technology. That's success to Deloitte. >> Great Guys thanks so much, great session. We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on and it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership and thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Reporter: From Chicago, it's The Cube. Covering Oracle transformation date 2020. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)