(upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of splunk.com 2021 virtual. We're here live in the Splunk studios. We're all here gettin all the action, all the stories. Garth Fort, senior vice president, Chief Product Officer at Splunk is here with me. CUBE alumni. Great to see you. Last time I saw you, we were at AWS now here at Splunk. Congratulations on the new role. >> Thank you. Great to see you again. >> Great keynote and great team. Congratulations. >> Thank you. Thank you. It's a lot of fun. >> So let's get into the keynote a little bit on the product. You're the Chief Product Officer. We interviewed Shawn Bice, who's also working with you as well. He's your boss. Talk about the, the next level, cause you're seeing some new enhancements. Let's get to the news first. Talk about the new enhancements. >> Yeah, this was actually a really fun keynote for me. So I think there was a lot of great stuff that came out of the rest of it. But I had the honor to actually showcase a lot of the product innovation, you know, since we did .conf last year, we've actually closed four different acquisitions. We shipped 43 major releases and we've done hundreds of small enhancements, like we're shipping code in the cloud every six weeks and we're shipping new versions twice a year for our Splunk Enterprise customers. And so this was kind of like if you've seen that movie Sophie's Choice, you know, where you have to pick one of your children, like this was a really hard, hard thing to pick. Cause we only had about 25 minutes, but we did like four demos that I think landed really well. The first was what we call ingest actions and you know, there's customers that are using, they start small with gigabytes and they go to terabytes and up to petabytes of data per day. And so they wanted tools that allow them to kind of modify filter and then route data to different sort of parts of their infrastructure. So that was the first demo. We did another demo on our, our visual playbook editor for SOAR, which has improved quite a bit. You know, a lot of the analysts that are in the, in the, in the SOC trying to figure out how to automate responses and reduce sort of time to resolution, like they're not Python experts. And so having a visual playbook editor that lets them drag and drop and sort of with a few simple gestures create complex playbooks was pretty cool. We showed some new capabilities in our APM tool. Last year, we announced we acquired a company called Plumbr, which has expertise in basically like code level analysis and, and we're calling it "Always On" profiling. So we, we did that demo and gosh, we did one more, four, but four total demos. I think, you know, people were really happy to see, you know, the thing that we really tried to do was ground all of our sort of like tech talk and stuff that was like real and today, like this is not some futuristic vision. I mean, Shawn did lay out some, some great visions, visionary kind of pillars. But, what we showed in the keynote was I it's all shipping code. >> I mean, there's plenty of head room in this market when it comes to data as value and data in motion, all these things. But we were talking before you came on camera earlier in the morning about actually how good Splunk product and broad and deep the product portfolio as well. >> Garth: Yeah. >> I mean, it's, I mean, it's not a utility and a tooling, it's a platform with tools and utilities. >> Garth: Yeah >> It's a fully blown out platform. >> Yeah. Yeah. It is a platform and, and, you know, it's, it's one that's quite interesting. I've had the pleasure to meet a couple of big customers and it's kind of amazing, like what they do with Splunk. Like I was meeting with a large telco on the east coast and you know, they actually, for their set top boxes, they actually have to figure out in real time, which ads to display and the only tool they could find to process 15 million events in real time, to decide what ad to display, was Splunk. So that was, that was like really cool to hear. Like we never set out to be like an ad tech kind of platform and yet we're the only tool that operates at that level of scale and that kind of data. >> You know, it's funny, Doug Merritt mentioned this in my interview with him earlier today about, you know, and he wasn't shy about it, which was great. He was like, we're an enabling platform. We don't have to be experts in all these vertical industries >> Garth: Yep >> because AI takes care of that. That's where the machine learning >> Garth: Yeah >> and the applications get built. So others are trying to build fully vertically integrated stacks into these verticals when in reality they don't have to, if they don't want it. >> Yeah, and Splunk's kind of, it's quite interesting when you look across our top 100 customers, you know, Doug talks about like the, you know, 92 of the fortune 100 are kind of using Splunk today, but the diversity across industries and, you know, we have government agencies, we have, you know, you name the retail or the vertical, you know, we've got really big customers, they're using Splunk. And the other thing that I kind of, I was excited about, we announced the last demo I forgot was TruSTAR integration with Enterprise Security. That's pretty cool. We're calling that Splunk Threat Intelligence. And so That was really fun and we only acquired, we closed the acquisition to TruSTAR in May, but the good news is they've been a partner with us like for 18 months before we actually bought em. And so they'd already done a lot of the work to integrate. And so they had a running start in that regard, But other, one other one that was kind of a, it was a small thing. I didn't get to demo it, but we talked about the, the content pack for application performance monitoring. And so, you know, in some ways we compete in the APM level, but in many ways there's a ton of great APM vendors out there that customers are using. But what they wanted us to do was like, hey, if I'm using APM for that one app, I still want to get data out of that and into Splunk because Splunk ends up being like the core repository for observability, security, IT ops, Dev Sec Ops, et cetera. It's kind of like where the truth, the operational truth of how your systems works, lives in Splunk. >> It's so funny. The Splunk business model has actually been replicated. They call it data lake, whatever you want to call it. People are bringing up all these different metaphors. But at the end of the day, if you guys can create a value proposition where you can have data just be, you know, stored and dumped and dumped into whatever they call it stored in a way >> Garth: We call it ingest >> Ingested, ingested. >> Garth: Not dumped. >> Data dump. >> Garth: It's ingested. >> Well, I mean, well you given me a plan, but you don't have to do a lot of work to store just, okay, we can only get to it later, >> Garth: Yep. >> But let the machines take over >> Garth: Yep. >> With the machine learning. I totally get that. Now, as a pro, as a product leader, I have to ask you your, your mindset around optimization. What do you optimize for? Because a lot of times these use cases are emerging. They just pop out of nowhere. It's a net new use case that you want to operationalize. So balancing the headroom >> Yep. >> Or not to foreclose those new opportunities for customers. How are customers deciding what's important to them? How do you, because you're trying to read the tea leaves for the future >> Garth: A little bit, yeah. >> and then go, okay, what do our customers need, but you don't want to foreclose anything. How do you think about product strategy around that? >> There's a ton of opportunity to interact with customers. We have this thing called the Customer Advisory Board. We run, I think, four of them and we run a monthly. And so we got an opportunity to kind of get that anecdotal data and the direct contact. We also have a portal called ideas.splunk.com where customers can come tell us what they want us to build next. And we look at that every month, you know, and there's no way that we could ever build everything that they're asking us to, but we look at that monthly and we use it in sort of our sprint planning to decide where we're going to prioritize engineering resources. And it's just, it's kind of like customers say the darndest things, right? Sometimes they ask us for stuff and we never imagined building it in a million years, >> John: Yeah. >> Like that use case around ads on the set top box, but it's, it's kind of a fun place to be like, we, we just, before this event, we kind of laid out internally what, you know, Shawn and I kind of put together this doc, actually Shawn wrote the bulk of it, but it was about sort of what do we think? Where, where can we take Splunk to the next three to five years? And we talked about these, we referred to them as waves of innovation. Cause you know, like when you think about waves, there's multiple waves that are heading towards the beach >> John: Yeah. >> in parallel, right? It's not like a series of phases that are going to be serialized. It's about making a set of investments. that'll kind of land over time. And, and the first wave is really about, you know, what I would say is sort of, you know, really delivering on the promise of Splunk and some of that's around integration, single sign-on things about like making all of the Splunk Splunk products work together more easily. We've talked a lot in the Q and a about like edge and hybrid. And that's really where our customers are. If you watch the Koby Avital's sort of customer keynote, you know, Walmart by necessity, given their geographic breadth and the customers they serve has to have their own infrastructure. They use Google, they use Azure and they have this abstraction layer that Koby's team has built on top. And they use Splunk to manage kind of, operate basically all of their infrastructure across those three clouds. So that's the hybrid edge scenario. We were thinking a lot about, you mentioned data lakes. You know, if you go back to 2002, when Splunk was founded, you know, the thing we were trying to do is help people make sense of log files. But now if you talk to customers that are moving to cloud, everybody's building a data lake and there's like billions of objects flowing into millions of these S3 buckets all over the place. And we're kind of trying to think about, hey, is there an opportunity for us to point our indexing and analytics capability against structured and unstructured data and those data lakes. So that that'll be something we're going to >> Yeah. >> at least start prototyping pretty soon. And then lastly, machine learning, you know, I'd say, you know, to use a baseball metaphor, like in terms of like how we apply machine learning, we're like in the bottom of the second inning, >> Yeah. >> you know, we've been doing it for a number of years, but there's so much more. >> There's so, I mean, machine learning is only as good as the data you put into the machine learning. >> Exactly, exactly. >> And so if you have, if you have gap in the data, the machine learning is going to have gaps in it. >> Yeah. And we have, we announced a feature today called auto detect. And I won't go into the gory details, but effectively what it does is it runs a real-time analytics job over whatever metrics you want to look at and you can do what I would consider more statistics versus machine learning. You can say, hey, if in a 10 minute period, like, you know, we see more errors than we see on average over the last week, throw an alert so I can go investigate and take a look. Imagine if you didn't have to figure out what the right thresholds were, if we could just watch those metrics for you and automatically understand the seasonality, the timing, is it a weekly thing? Is it a monthly thing? And then like tell you like use machine learning to do the anomaly detection, but do it in a way that's more intelligent than just the static threshold. >> Yeah. >> And so I think you'll see things like auto detect, which we announced this week will evolve to take advantage of machine learning kind of under the covers, if you will. >> Yeah. It was interesting with cloud scale and the data velocity, automations become super important. >> Oh yeah. >> You don't have a lot of new disciplines emerge, like explainable AI is hot right now. So you got, the puck is coming. You can see where the puck is going. >> Yeah >> And that is automation at the app edge or the application layer where the data has got to be free-flowing or addressable. >> Garth: Yeah. >> This is something that is being talked about. And we talked about data divide with, with Chris earlier about the policy side of things. And now data is part of everything. It's part of the apps. >> Garth: Yeah. >> It's not just stored stuff. So it's always in flight. It should be addressable. This is what people want. What do you think about all of that? >> No, I think it's great. I actually just can I, I'll quote from Steve Schmidt in, in sort of the keynote, he said, look like security at the end of the day is a human problem, but it kind of manifests itself through data. And so being able to understand what's happening in the data will tell you, like, is there a bad actor, like wreaking havoc inside of my systems? And like, you can use that, the data trail if you will, of the bad actor to chase them down and sort of isolate em. >> The digital footprints, if you will, looking at a trail. >> Yeah. >> All right, what's the coolest thing that you like right now, when you look at the treasure trove of, of a value, as you look at it, and this is a range of value, Splunk, Splunk has had customers come in with, with the early product, but they keep the customers and they always do new things and they operationalize it >> Garth: Yep. >> and another new thing comes, they operationalize it. What's the next new thing that's coming, that's the next big thing. >> Dude that is like asking me which one of my daughters do I love the most, like that is so unfair. (laughing) I'm not going to answer that one. Next question please. >> Okay. All right. Okay. What's your goals for the next year or two? >> Yeah, so I just kind of finished roughly my first 100 days and it's been great to, you know, I had a whole plan, 30, 60, 90, and I had a bunch of stuff I wanted to do. Like I'm really hoping, sort of, we get past this current kind of COVID scare and we get to back to normal. Cause I'm really looking forward to getting back on the road and sort of meeting with customers, you know, you can meet over Zoom and that's great, but what I've learned over time, you know, I used to go, I'd fly to Wichita, Kansas and actually go sit down with the operators like at their desk and watch how they use my tools. And that actually teaches you. Like you, you come up with things when you see, you know, your product in the hands of your customer, that you don't get from like a CAB meeting or from a Zoom call, you know? >> John: Yeah, yeah. >> And so being able to visit customers where they live, where they work and kind of like understand what we can do to make their lives better. Like that's going to, I'm actually really excited to gettin back to travel. >> If you could give advice to CTO, CISO, or CIO or a practitioner out there who are, who is who's sitting at their virtual desk or their physical desk thinking, okay, the pandemic, were coming through the pandemic. I want to come out with a growth strategy, with a plan that's going to be expansive, not restrictive. The pandemic has shown what's what works, what doesn't work. >> Garth: Sure. >> So it's going to be some projects that might not get renewed, but there's doubling down on, certainly with cloud scale. What would advice would you give that person when they start thinking about, okay, I got to get my architecture right. >> Yeah. >> I got to get my playbooks in place. I got to get my people aligned. >> Yeah >> What's what do you see as a best practice for kind of the mindset to actual implementation of data, managing the data? >> Yeah, and again, I'm, I'm, this is not an original Garth thought. It actually came from one of our customers. You know, the, I think we all, like you think back to March and April of 2020 as this thing was really getting real. Everybody moved as fast as they could to either scale up or scale scaled on operations. If you were in travel and hospitality, you know, that was, you know, you had to figure how to scale down quickly and like what you could shut down safely. If you were like in the food delivery business, you had to figure out how you could scale up, like Chipotle hit two, what is it? $2 billion run rate on delivery last year. And so people scrambled as fast as they could to sort of adapt to this new world. And I think we're all coming to the realization that as we sort of exit and get back to some sense of new normal, there's a lot of what we're doing today that's going to persist. Like, I think we're going to have like flexible rules. I don't think everybody's going to want to come back into the office. And so I think, I think the thing to do is you think about returning to whatever this new normal looks like is like, what did we learn that was good. And like the pandemic had a silver lining for folks in many ways. And it sucked for a lot. I'm not saying it was a good thing, but you know, there were things that we did to adapt that I think actually made like the workplace, like stronger and better. And, and sort of. >> It showed that data's important, internet is important. Didn't break, the internet didn't break. >> Garth: Correct. >> Zoom was amazing. And the teleconferencing with other tools. >> But that's kind of, just to sort of like, what did you learn over the last 18 months that you're going to take for it into the next 18 years? You know what I mean? Cause there was a lot of good and I think people were creative and they figured out like how to adapt super quickly and take the best of the pandemic and turn it into like a better place to work. >> Hybrid, hybrid events, hybrid workforce, hybrid workflows. What's what's your vision on Splunk as a tier one enterprise? Because a lot of the news that I'm seeing that's, that's the tell sign to me in terms of this next growth wave is big SI deals, Accenture and others are yours working with and you still got the other Partnerverse going. You have the ecosystems emerging. >> Garth: Yep. >> That's a good, that means your product's enabling people to make money. >> Garth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And that's a good thing. >> Yeah, BlueVoyant was a great example in the keynote yesterday and they, you know, they've really, they've kind of figured out how, you know, most of their customers, they serve customers in heavily regulated industries kind of, and you know, those customers actually want their data in a Splunk tenant that they own and control and they want to have that secure boundary around that. But BlueVoyant's figured out how they can come in and say, hey, I'm going to take care of the heavy lifting of the day-to-day operations, the monitoring of that environment with the security. So, so BlueVoyant has done a great job sort of pivoting and figuring out how they can add value to customers and do, you know, because they they're managing not just one Splunk instance, but they're managing 100s of Splunk cloud instances. And so they've got best practices and automation that they can play across their entire client base. And I think you're going to see a lot more of that. And, and Teresa's just, Teresa is just, she loves Partners, absolutely loves Partners. And that was just obvious. You could, you could hear it in her voice. You could see it in her body language, you know, when she talked about Partnerverse. So I think you'll see us start to really get a lot more serious. Cause as big as Splunk is like our pro serve and support teams are not going to scale for the next 10,000, 100,000 Splunk customers. And we really need to like really think about how we use Partners. >> There's a real growth wave. And I, and I love the multiples wave in parallel because I think that's what everyone's consensus on. So I have to ask you as a final question, what's your takeaway? Obviously, there's been a virtual studio here where all the Splunk executives and, and, and customers and partners are here. TheCUBE's here doing all the presentations, live by the way. It was awesome. What would you say the takeaway is for this .conf, for the people watching and consuming all the content online? A lot of asynchronous consumption would be happening. >> Sure. >> What's your takeaway from this year's Splunk .conf? >> You know, I, it's hard cause you know, you get so close to it and we've rehearsed this thing so many times, you know, the feedback that I got and if you look at Twitter and you look at my Slack and everything else, like this felt like a conf that was like kind of like a really genuine, almost like a Splunk two dot O. But it's sort of true to the roots of what Splunk was true to the product reality. I mean, you know, I was really careful with my team and to avoid any whiff of vaporware, like what were, what we wanted to show was like, look, this is Splunk, we're acquiring companies, you know, 43 major releases, you know, 100s of small ones. Like we're continuing to innovate on your behalf as fast as we can. And hopefully this is the last virtual conf. But even when we go back, like there was so much good about the way we did this this week, that, you know, when we, when we broke yesterday on the keynote and we were sitting around with the crew and it kind of looking at that stage and everything, we were like, wow, there is a lot of this that we want to bring to an in-person event as well. Cause so for those that want to travel and come sit in the room with us, we're super excited to do that as soon as we can. But, but then, you know, there may be 25, 50, 100,000 that don't want to travel, but can access us via this virtual event. >> It's like a time. It's a moment in time that becomes a timeless moment. That could be, >> Wow, did you make that up right now? >> that could be an NFT. >> Yeah >> We can make a global cryptocurrency. Garth, great to see you. Of course I made it up right then. So, great to see you. >> Air bump, air bump? Okay, good. >> Okay. Garth Fort, senior vice president, Chief Product Officer. In theCUBE here, we're live on site at Splunk Studio for the .conf virtual event. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. >> All right. Thank you guys. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Paolo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only of the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here, Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte. And Don Schmidt is here, who's a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see ya, welcome. >> Good to be here, Dave. >> So Don, I want to start with you. Transformation, everybody talks about that. There's a lot of trends goin' on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah, I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody's been saying they want to get out of their data centers, though leaps haven't really been taking place. They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale of getting out of your data centers is now here. So we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost-efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so that they can move on with their day-to-day business? >> So data centers just not an efficient use of capital for your customers is what you're saying. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get onto innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power, cooling. >> Two very well-known brands, you guys get together. So what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists. And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud when you're trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate the situation? Why would you not partner with an organization if it does large business transformation, like a Deloitte? And so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with a business transformation, pull that together, and back to the one plus one equals three from a customer. That's what they really want. So how to we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application workloads. Our job, what we're really chartered to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations, just the opposite for what Mike just said. So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT. Business-led transformation is kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> So you just described what I would think of as wave one and as you keep peeling, you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have reorganizations. That's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> There's a lot of things you have to sort through and that's where the combined alvic program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools will help make sure we get this right. Deloitte has a product called ATADATA, Oracle has a product called Soar, they marry together properly into this transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right, as well. >> Take me through a typical engagement, typical, I know, in quotes, and then how long? Take me to the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> So we see two different spectrums on a transformation and it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic, dying hardware? Or do you want to take your time and make a little bit more of a transformational journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But in either one of those we'll come in and do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help put the customers through a business case, a TCO, how fast or how slow the journey needs to be for them, create what we call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those, over time, to get out of their data center. In parallel, we're going to be doing, as Mike was saying, around all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skillset for IT to have. They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel. And then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small, little group of safe applications and we can proof out the model works, move those into the Cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale that out at its large pace, get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> Do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that I can do to get started? Maybe do a little test case? Any particular offerings that? >> It's all under the program of Elevate. We've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market to genera, put that in it, as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> The JDE migration, so you've got what? Situations where people have just broken systems? >> Yeah, I would say it's more of a JDE modernization. So you have an organization, right? They may have a JD, a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really, it's older. They may be on version nine or something like that. They don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level of capabilities of Cloud computing: IoT, mobile, et cetera. So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach it together. We work with customers, depending on where they're goin' and going, "Hey, great, you can actually modernize "by taking it up to this version of JDE "through an upgrade process," but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure which allows you to tap into all those platform services, the IoT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various, kind of four major phases that we can do, or entry points with a customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has is a deep JDE and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together. Matter of fact, we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches, here and in our future. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me a lot of companies don't have their data driven. They want to be data driven, but they're not there yet and so their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos, and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives them from data to insight. Is that fair? >> Yeah, fair. Yeah, it's not just doin' reporting and dashboards, it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chain. >> Guys, two powerhouses. Thanks so much for explaining in theCUBE and to our audience it. Appreciate it. >> Appreciate it. >> All right, thank you everybody for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE from Chicago. We'll be right back after this short break. (soft electronic music)

>> Narrator: From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Everybody. Welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron millstone is back, he's the senior vice president of Oracle Consulting. He's joined by Jeff Davis, who's the principal at Deloitte. He's the chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay, is their teeth behind this? So you guys have come up with with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >> Well, elevate, really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure, and Oracle autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together, and we could offer something to our clients and the broad range of Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Deloitte's capabilities which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle Technology, they'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together, we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace. >> One of the things we look forward there, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us that's not just the sales play? >> Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier too, right. So we definitely each had our respective tooling, right on Deloitte investments and tools. One was called ATADATA that we've seen use quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused it's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud, ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte invested in are focused more comprehensively on holistically it looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and starts to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things. And we said, "You know what if you combine these together, "we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly "it is that we're looking at with a customer". So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff, we can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not past or out of supporter, but get a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so you know, we took those tools and we've combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective and quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads we've developed these tools together we're going to market together and we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joined business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers, and therefore then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined. And we even at this you know, we were even Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually we even got a joint, a war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as a call it a, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if we could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, it's well it's definitely starting point right. So we call it a referred to as infrastructure lead transformation. And appetite, the appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there but how do they get out of the data center business holes? So it's sort of it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Or should we invest in up to in our data centers? The question has changed to let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quit frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is you want to move this Oracle workloads to Oracle's cloud, you want to move that Oracle workload over to cloud. And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right again, often, it's a multi cloud strategy and that's okay. And we you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting as these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear. And then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes some very compelling conversations for customers, because you can walk in to a CIO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation underway at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts is let's take some costs right out and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective. Which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology, it's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewable and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today had at a level of security and scalability and ability to run modern technology. Much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey, maybe thinking about a couple of customer sizer specifically or generically, kind of where you're at with them? How far along maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions we're driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more what people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. And but almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity, that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that these days security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >> How do you guys and how to customers want to approach the transaction is it a fixed fee? Is that a TNM? Is it a situation where you participate in some of the savings or the gain? How does the pricing work? >> I'll start off by saying, each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs. What they're trying to get out of it. Right now as an example, Op-X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around Op-X. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just I think, a wide variety. I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like? You know, when you sort of you know, just less than a year in, when you're two, three, four let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like Aaron? >> So to me successful, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion naturally between our organizations not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving organizational behavior right away. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud, and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point three, four or five years from now, right, that'll be a wild success Michael. >> Jeff final comment. Deloitte has been around for 175 years. This is our birthday this year and in that time, What we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client success. Find success means improved scalability of their operations. Securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is, and focus less on technology, that success to Deloitte. >> Great, guys, thanks so much. Great session, we're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming in the cube. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Reporter: From Chicago, it's The Cube. Covering Oracle transformation date 2020. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Splunk .Conf19. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome to theCUBE everybody, we're here in Las Vegas for Splunk's .Conf, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, here with Lisa Martin for the next three days. Lisa will be here tomorrow and the next day. I'm going to be carrying it solo, this is our seventh year .Conf, Splunk's conference celebrating their 10th year. Our first guest is Melissa Zicopula, vice president of managed services of Herjavec Group. Robert's been on before, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> I always get that, Herjavec? >> Herjavec Group. >> Herjavec Group. >> Happy to be here. >> Well known for the Shark Tank, but what's really interesting about Robert and your company is that we had multiple conversations and the Shark Tanks is what he's known for in the celebrity world. >> Melissa: Yes. >> But he's a nerd, he's a geek, he's one of us! (laughing) >> He's absolutely a cyber-security expert in the field, yes. >> So tell us what's going on this year at .Conf obviously security continues to be focus you guys have a booth here, what's the message you guys are sharing, what's the story from your standpoint? >> Yeah, so we do, Herjavec we're focusing on managed security services, where information security is all we do, focusing on 24/7 threat detection, security operations and also threat management. So, we want to be able to demo a lot of our capabilities, we're powered by Splunk, our HG analytics platform uses, heavily uses Splunk on the back end. So we want to be able to showcase for our customers, our clients, our prospects different types of use cases, different types of ways to detect malicious activity, while leveraging the tool itself. >> And data we're been covering since 2013, Splunk's .Conf, it's always been a data problem, but the data problem gets bigger and bigger, there's more volume than ever before which shifts the terms to the adversaries because ransomware is at an all time high. >> Melissa: Sure. >> Data is where the value is, but that's also where the attack vectors are coming from. This isn't going away. >> Absolutely, yeah, we want to focus on not just what type of data you're ingesting into your instance but to also understand what types of log sources you're feeding into your sim today. So we have experts actually focus on evaluating the type of log sources we're bringing in. Everything from IPS, to AV, to firewall you know, solutions into the sim so that way we can build use cases those, to be able to detect different types of activity. We leverage different types of methodologies, one of them is Mitre framework, CIS top 20. And being able to couple those two together it's able to give you a better detection mechanism in place. >> I want to some kind of, clarification questions because we talked to a lot of CSOs and CIOs and and CXOs in general. >> Melissa: Sure. >> The roles are changing, but the acronyms of the providers out in the market place are specializing, some have unique focuses, some have breadth, some have depth, you guys are an MSSPP. So, MSSPP, not to be confused with an MSP. Or ISV, there's different acronyms, what is the difference between an MSSPP versus an MSP? >> Melissa: Correct, so it's, we are a MSSP, which is a Managed Security Service Provider. And what we do is just, we're focused on we're very security-centric. So information, security is all we do everything from threat detection, we even have a consulting advisory role where we're actually doing penetration exams. We're PCI compliant, obviously SOC operations are the bread and butter of our service. Whereas, other MSPs, Managed Services Providers, they can do anything from architecture, network operations in that purview. So, we're focused on more of SIM solutions, endpoint, being able to manage any of your security technologies. And also, monitor them to take a fact into the SOC. >> So you guys are very focused? >> Melissa: Very focused on security. >> Then what's the key decision point for a customer to go with you guys, and what's the supplier relationship to the buyer because they're buying everything these days! >> Melissa: Sure. >> But they want to try and get it narrowed down so the right people are in the right place. >> Melissa: Yeah, so one of the great things about Herjavec Group is we are, you know, we're vendor agnostic, we have tons of experts in, you know, expertise resources that monitor, manage different types of technologies. Whether it's Splunk and other technologies out there, we have a team of people, that are very, very, you know, centric to actually monitor and manage them. >> How big is Splunk, in relative with your services? How involved are they with the scope? >> Melissa: Over 60% of our managed clients today, utilize Splunk, they're heavy Splunk users, they also utilize Splunk ES, Splunk Core, and from a management side, they're implementing them into their service. All of the CSOs and CROs or CIOs are leveraging and using it, not just for monitoring and security but they're also using it in development environments, as well as their network operations. >> So, one of the things I've been, I won't say preaching, because I do tend to preach a lot, but I've been saying and amplifying, is that tools that have come a long in the business and there's platforms and Splunk has always kind of been that, a platform provider, but also a good tool for folks. But, they've been enabling value, you guys have built an app on Splunk, the proprietary solutions. >> Absolutely. >> Could you tell me about that because this is really where the value starts to shift, where domain expertise focused practices and services, like you guys are doing, are building on someone else's platform with data, talk about your proprietary app. >> Absolutely, so we discovered, a few years ago, was that customers needed help getting to the data faster. So we were able to build in built-in queries, you know literally one click, say if you wanted to get to a statistical side of how many data sources are logging your SIM, is the data, you know, modeling complete, you know, is there anything missing in the environment or are there any gaps that we need to fill? You're able to do it by just clicking on a couple of different, you know, buttons within the tool itself. It gives you a holistic view of not just the alerts that are firing in your environment but all the data log sources that are coming into your SIM instance. It's a one stop shop. And also, what's great about it, is that it also powers Splunk ES, so Splunk ES also has similar tools and they are, literally, I mean that tool is so great you can go in, you can look at all the alerts, you can do an audit trail, you can actually do drill-down analysis, you can actually see the type of data like PCAP analysis, to get to the, you know, the type of activity you want to get to on a granular level. So, both tools do it really well. >> So you have hooks into ES, Splunk ES? >> Yes, we can actually see, depending on the instance that it's deployed on, 'cause our app is deployed on top of Splunk for every customer's instance. They're ale to leverage and correlate the two together. >> What are some of the trends in the marketplace that you're seeing with your customers? Obviously, again, volumes are increasing, the surface area of attacks is coming in it's more than log files now, it's, you got traces, you got other metrics >> Melissa: Sure. >> Other things to measure, it's almost It's almost too many alerts, what do you-- >> Yeah, a lot of KPI's. The most important thing that any company, any entity wants to measure is the MTTD, the Mean Time To Detection, and also mean time to resolve, right? You want to be able to ensure that your teams are have everything at their fingertips to get to the answer fast. And even if there's an attack or some type of breach in their environment, to at least detect it and understand where it is so they can quarantine it from spreading. >> What's the biggest surprise that you've seen in the past two years? I mean, 'cause I look back at our interviews with you guys in 2013, no 2015. I mean, the narrative really hasn't changed global security, I mean, all the core, top line stories are there, but it just seems to be bigger. What's the big surprise for you in terms of the marketplace? >> The big surprise for me is that companies are now focusing more on cyber-hygiene. Really ensuring that their infrastructure is you know, up to par, right? Because you can apply the best tools in-house but if you're not cleaning up you know, your backyard (laughing) it's going to get tough. So now we have a lot of entities really focusing and using tools like Splunk you know, to actually analyze what's happening in their environment, to clean up their back of house, I would say and to put those tools in place so they could be effective. >> You know, that's a classic story clean up your own house before you can go clean up others, right? >> Right. >> And what a trend we've been seeing in the marketplace on theCUBE and talking to a lot of practitioners is, and channel partners and suppliers is that, they tend to serve their customers, but they don't clean up their own house and data's moving around so now with the diversity of data, they've got the fabric search, they got all kind of new tools within Splunk's portfolio. >> It's a challenge, and it could be you know, lack of resources, it just means that we have you know, they don't have the right expertise in-house so they used managed security providers to help them get there. For example, if a network, if we identify the network being flat, we can identify you know, how to help them how to be able to kind of, look at the actual security landscape and what we need to do to have good visibility in their environment from places they didn't know existed. >> What's the one, one or two things that you see customers that need to do that, they aren't doing yet? You mentioned hygiene is a trend, what are some other things that that need to be addressed, that are almost, well that could be critical and bad, but are super important and valuable? >> I think now a lot of, actually to be quite honest a lot of our clients today or anyone who's building programs, security programs are getting you know, very mature. They're adopting methodologies, like Mitre Framework, CIS Top 20, and they're actually deploying and they're actually using specific use cases to identify the attacks happening in their environment. Not just from a security-centric standpoint but also from an operations side you know, you could identify misconfigurations in your environment, you can identify things that are you know, just cleaning up the environment as well. >> So, Splunk has this thing called SOAR, Security-- >> Automation. >> Orchestration Automation Recovery, resilience whatever R, I think R stands for that. How does that fit in to your market, your app and what you guys are doing? >> So it definitely fits in basically, being able to automate the redundant, mundane types of tasks that anyone can do, right? So if you think about it, if you have a security operations center with five or 10 analysts, it might take one analyst to do a task, it might take them two or three hours, where you can leverage a tool like Phantom, any type of SOAR platform to actually create a playbook to do that task within 30 seconds. So, not only are you minimizing the amount of you know, head count to do that, you're also you know, using your consistent tool to make that function make that function you know, more, I want to say enhanced. So you can build play books around it, you can basically use that on a daily basis whether it's for security monitoring or network operations, reporting, all that becomes more streamlined. >> And the impact to the organization is those mundane tasks can be demotivating. Or, there's a lot more problems to solve so for productivity, creativity, can you give some examples of where you've seen that shift into the personnel, HR side the human resource side of it? >> Yeah, absolutely so you know, you want to be able to have something consistent in your environment, right? So you don't want others to get kind of, get bored or you know, when you're looking at a platform day in and day out and you're doing the same task everyday, you might miss something. Whereas, if you build an automation tool that takes care of the low hanging fruit, so to speak, you're able to use a human component to put your muscles somewhere else, to find some you know, the human element to actually look for any types of malicious anomalies in the environment. >> How much has teamwork become a big part of how successful companies manage a security threat landscape? >> Very, very important. I mean, you're talking about leveraging different teams on the engineering side, on the operations side, even you know, coupling that with business stakeholders. You absolutely need to get the business involved so they have an understanding of what's critical to their environment, what's critical to their business, and making sure that we're taking security, obviously seriously, which a lot of companies know already, but not impeding on the operation. So doing it safely without having to minimize impact. >> Well let's just, I got to ask you this question around kind of, doing the cutting edge but not getting bled out, bleeding edge, bleeding out and failing. Companies are trying to balance you know, being cutting edge and balancing hardcore security Signal FX is a company that Splunk bought, we've been following them from the beginning. Strong tracing, great in that cloud native environment. So cloud native with micro services is super hot in areas you know, people see with Kubernetes and so on happening, kind of cutting edge though! >> Melissa: Right. >> You don't want to be bleeding edge 'cause there's some risks there too so, how do you guys advise your clients to think about cloud native with Splunk and some of the things that they're there but as the expression goes "there's a pony in there somewhere" but it's risky still, but certainly it's got a lot of promise. >> Yeah, you know, it's all about you know, everyone's different, every environment's different. It's really about explaining those options to them what they have available, whether they go on the cloud, whether they stay on-prem, explaining them from a cost perspective, how they can implement that solution, and what the risks are involved if they had and how long that will take for them to implement it in their environment. >> Do you see a lot of clients kicking the tires in cloud native? >> A lot of customers are migrating to cloud. One, because they don't have to keep it in a data warehouse, they don't have to have somebody manage it, they don't have to worry about hardware or licenses, renewals, all that. So, it's really easy to spin up a you know, a cloud instance where they can just keep a copy of it somewhere and then configure it and manage it and monitor it. >> Melissa, great insight, and love to have you on theCUBE, I got to ask you one final question >> Melissa: Sure. >> As a, on a personal note well, personal being you're in the industry you know, I hear a lot of patterns out there, see a lot of conversations on theCUBE. One consistent theme is the word scale. Cloud brings scale to the table, data scaling, so data at scale, cloud at scale, is becoming a reality for customers, and they got to deal with it. And this also impacts the security piece of it. What are some of the things that you guys and customers are doing to kind of one, take advantage of that wave but not get buried into it? >> Absolutely, so you just want to incorporate into the management life cycle, you know you don't want to just configure then it's one and done, it's over. You want to be able to continually monitor what's happening quarter over quarter you know, making sure that you're doing some asset inventory, you're managing your log sources, you have a full team that's monitoring, keeping up with the processes and procedures, and making sure that you know, you're also partnering with a company that can can follow you you know, year over year and build that road map to actually see what you're building your program, you know. >> So here's the personal question now, so, you're on this wave, security wave. >> Melissa: Sure. >> It's pretty exciting, can be intoxicating but at the same time, it's pretty dynamic. What are you excited about these days in the industry? What's really cool that you're getting jazzed about? What's exciting you in the industry these days? >> Automation, absolutely. Automation, being able to build as many playbooks and coupling that with different types of technologies, and you know, like Splunk, right? You can ingest and you can actually, automate your tier one and maybe even a half of a tier two, right, a level two. And that to me is exciting because a lot of what we're seeing in the industry now is automating as much as possible. >> And compare that to like, five years ago in terms of-- >> Oh absolutely, you know, SOAR wasn't a big thing five years ago, right? So, you had to literally sit there and train individuals to do a certain task, their certain function. And then you had to rely on them to be consistent across the board where now, automation is just taken that to the next level. >> Yeah it's super exciting, I agree with you. I think automation, I think machine learning and AI data feeds, machine learning. >> Michelle: Right. >> Machine learning is AI, AI is business value. >> Being able to get to the data faster, right? >> Awesome, speed, productivity, creativity, scale. This is the new formula inside the security practice I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. More live coverage here for the 10th anniversary of Splunk .Conf, our seventh year covering Splunk from a start-up, to going public, to now. One of the leaders in the industry. I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE! Covering the RSA Conference 2019. Brought to you by ForeScout. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at RSA at Moscone at downtown San Francisco. We're in the ForeScout booth, our first time in the ForeScout booth, we're really excited to be here and we're talking about cyber security, I don't know what the official number is this year, probably 45 thousand professionals walkin' around, talkin' about security. And we've got our next guest on, he is Russell Jones, partner on cyber risk services for Deloitte. Russell, great to meet you! >> Same to meet you as well. >> So, I asked him before we turned on, what's getting you excited these days and he said, everything! So, this is a crazy busy space. What have you been working on lately, what's kind of your take away from the first couple days at the show? >> Yeah, it is a crazy, busy space and if you look at the cyber landscape, everything's moving at the speed of the internet, so it's this cat and mouse game in terms of attackers trying to find new ways to get into systems that is driving the industry. When you talk about health care though, the issue is these systems, like medical devices, often times are connected to people. >> Right. >> And so, the implications of a hack against, let's say, a MRI machine or a fusion pump, could be devastating to an actual person connected to it. And that's really what's driving a lot of innovation in terms of some of the technologies you see, like ForeScout, and also, a lot of what's going on from a regulatory perspective, and also the hospitals and the health care system themselves. >> Right. >> Trying to solve that problem, managing cyber risk as it relates to clinical technology. >> And a lot of that stuff wasn't connected before, right? There weren't IP addresses on every MRI machine or all these pump machines or, you know, you have a pacemaker, all these things. How are they looking at kind of the risk reward from a connected device that gives you all kinds of benefits-- >> Yeah. >> but it does open up this attack surface that previously had maybe an air gap there? >> That's a great point, bottom line is the life saving, life extending attributes of these medical technologies and medical devices far outweighs the risk of cyber, however, we got to be smart about managing that risk. So, we're going to see more connectivity, not less. Train's left the station, in terms of what's coming and in the future of the healthcare, connecting more of, not only the medical devices, but the information in them and being able to share that and then bring it together and aggregate it in ways that, you know, with analytics on top of it allows doctors and researchers in the clinical community to connect dots in ways that solve cancer, solve some different maladies that have plagued us forever. >> Right. >> So I think, on the one hand, it's great, this connectivity is extending healthcare out to people in rural locations and it's also bringing together a lot of different data from everything from your Fitbit to your pacemaker to apps that you have on your phone in a way that's going to benefit us. >> Right, right, so, one of the things about healthcare is they're way out in front of, kind of, not healthcare in terms of regulations. >> Yeah. >> You know, and HIPAA's been around for a long time, GDPR just went into place in Europe last year, so when you look at it from a regulatory environment, which people have to consider, there's not only the complexity of the machines, there's not only the complexity of the security, but you also have regulatory environment. >> Yeah. >> How is the cyber security in healthcare, with their very unique regulations, kind of impacting the way people should think about the problem, the way they should implement solutions? >> That's a good question, I think we've thought about, in the cyber community, forever. We talk about confidentiality, integrity, availability, right, the triangle. When you think about healthcare and clinical technology and medical devices, you need to flip that triangle upside down and the focus is integrity and availability, those things together equal patient safety. So, in other words, as we're connecting more of these devices to each other, to electronic health record systems, to the cloud, the integrity of the information in there, which is being used by doctors and other folks to make decisions about treatment, about surgical procedures, about medicines, it's crucial that that information and the integrity of it is maintained. And then the availability of the device is critical, right? If you're going in to get an MRI and it's down because it's been hacked, there's usually not a spare MRI and so there's a profound impact for patients that are scheduled back to back to back to back to go get that procedure, that MRI that's going to be used by a doctor to do some surgery or some other kind of a treatment plan >> Right. >> So integrity and availability are huge in the cyber world. And, if you look at the regulations, depending on which one we're talking and which part of the world, right? You mentioned HIPAA, we've got security and privacy, you've got GDPR, you've got the FDA that have guidance around what they want the manufacturers to do, building security into the devices. >> Right. >> They all have an impact on cyber and how it's going to be addressed, how we're going to manage cyber risk in the healthcare world. >> Right. >> In that environment. >> And then there's this whole new thing, I went to the Wall Street Journal Health Conference a couple weeks back, I don't know if you were there, but there was two people up where you now you can take your genetic footprint, right? >> Yeah. >> You can take your 23andMe results and after you figure out where your family's from, you can actually sell it back into a research market-- >> Yeah. >> so that doctors and clinicians and people doing trials on new drugs can now take your data in kind of a marketplace, back into a whole nother application so it's kind of outside of the core healthcare system, if you will. >> That's right. >> But I mean, it's basically, it's me, right? (laughs) In the form of my DNA footprint. >> Yup. >> It's crazy, crazy amounts of strange data that now is potentially exposed to a hack. >> That's right, and so the implications there, obviously, privacy, right? That's a huge issue, I think, that we're going to have to address and that's why you see GDPR and that's why you see the California Consumer Privacy Act. >> Right. >> There's a recognition that, again, the train's left the station, there's a lot of good things that come out of sharing data and sharing information, there's a lot benefits that can come out of it for the consumers, patients. There's a dark side as well and that has to be managed. That's why we have the privacy regulations that we have, we're probably going to see more, probably going to see more things like the California Consumer Privacy Act. >> Right. >> More states and eventually-- >> Right. >> probably a federal act for the US. >> Do you think that the healthcare industry is better equipped to deal with GDPR and the California Healthcare Act because of things like HIPAA and they kind of come from that world? Or is this just a whole new level of regulation that they now have to account for? >> I think it's probably a mixed bag. On the one hand, healthcare has been dealing with privacy for a long time, even before HIPAA, right. And then HIPAA has very specific requirements around how you have to manage that information and consent and notifying the patient of their rights. On your other hand, you look at some of the new things, like GDPR, it goes way beyond HIPAA, and I think-- >> It goes way beyond HIPAA? >> Goes way behind HIPAA, like for example, this whole notion of the right to be forgotten. >> Right. >> Right, that's a requirement on the GDPR. That means, me as a patient, if I tell my doctor, I want you to get rid of all my medical records, everything in your system everywhere about me, I want it gone. Not that it makes sense-- >> Right, right. >> but, at least in Europe, if they ask to do that, you have to be able to comply. From a technology perspective and a medical device perspective, some of these devices are very complex, ecosystem of devices, components that make up the product. >> Right >> That's a very difficult thing to do. There's no one delete button-- >> Right. >> that you hit that can delete you from all different instances, downstream from where you came into the healthcare system. >> Right. >> And so, when you think about it from a cyber perspective, it gets to be very challenging. >> The other thing, right, is health care's always under tremendous kind of price pressure from the insurers and the consumers and a bad medical event can wipe-- >> Yeah. >> people out, right? >> Yeah. >> Especially when they're later in life and they're not properly insured, when they're making kind of an ROI analysis on cyber investments versus all the other things they can spend their money on, and they can't spend it all on security, that's not possible, how are they factoring in kind of the cyber investment, it's kind of this new layer of investment that they have to make because all these things are invested versus just investing in better beds and better machines and better people? >> That's the million dollar question. (laughs) I would say, some hospitals and health systems are doing it better than others, so maybe a little bit more further along and mature about thinking about the total cost of ownership and also, the patient factor, right? What has to be balanced, obviously, is not just the costs, but at the end of the day, what's best for the patient. And you hear this term, patient centricity, a lot today. And there's a recognition from all the players in the echo system, it's all about the patient. >> I'm so glad you say that 'cause I think a lot of people probably think that the patient sometimes gets lost in this whole thing, but you're saying no. >> There is an acknowledgement over the last few years and it's called patient centricity, it's an acknowledgement that the way we're going into the future of healthcare and the kinds of medical devices and technology and cloud solutions that are becoming part of the healthcare fabric, they're all being built and geared towards the patient being the center of the equation, not the doctor, not the hospital, it's the patient. >> Right, right, right, that's good to hear. >> And so, to answer your original question, we're in early days and really trying to balance the patient and patient centricity versus we've got vulnerabilities in our environment that could impact the patient and we've only got limited people and costs. >> Right, right. >> Making decisions that kind of balance all of those things. >> Right, alright Russell, last question, we're sitting here in the ForeScout booth. >> Yes. >> Obviously you have a relationship with them, talk about kind of what their solution adds to some of the stuff that you're workin' on. >> So, ForeScout, one of the reasons that we're working closely with ForeScout, their solution, really, they've taken an approach that's holistic around these issues that we're talking about, right, managing cyber risk, complex environment, a lot of different devices that are connected to each other and to the cloud and to the internet. They have built a solution that focuses on ability to have visibility into those devices that are on your network, some of which you may not even know exists, and then being able to kind of build an asset inventory around that visibility that allows you to do things like detect, based on policy, activity that suggests that you might be hacked or there might be some internal processes or players that are doing things that are going to put patients at risk or have you in non-compliance with GDPR, HIPAA and the rest. >> Right. >> And then their solution goes beyond ability to kind of visibility and detect, but to actually do something actionable, right? Security controls and orchestration with other technologies, like Simp Solutions and SOAR Solutions. Being able to orchestrate, hey, I know that I detected some activity on this infusion pump that suggests that we may being hacked, let me send an alert out, but then let me also, maybe, quarantine that part of the network. So, it's the ability to orchestrate between different security technologies that exist in a hospital environment, that's what we like about ForeScout. >> I'm just curious, when they run their first kind of crawl, if you will-- >> Yeah. >> are people surprised at the results of what's on there, that they had no clue? >> I mean, yes and no. >> Yes and no, okay. >> I think, most of the big hospitals that we work with, they know that, what they don't know, and especially when-- >> They know what they don't know. >> you're talkin' about a health system that maybe has a 100 thousand connected medical devices across the health system, they know what they don't know. They're looking for solutions to help them better manage and understand the things that they don't know, that they don't know. >> Right. >> Versus what they do know about. >> Right. >> And I think that's what we bring to the table in terms of kind of cyber risk services Deloitte brings, and then that's what ForeScout brings with their solution to be able to kind of help solve those problems. >> Well Russell, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day to share those stories, super-- >> Thank you. >> super important work, you know, it's one thing to steal a few bucks out of the bank account, like you said. >> Yeah. >> It's another thing to start taking down machines at the hospital, not a good thing. >> Not a good thing. >> Alright >> Thank you. >> He's Russell, I'm Jeff, you're watchin' theCUBE, we're at RSA in Moscone in the ForeScout booth, thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (techno music)