>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to Miami. Lisa Martin here live with the Cube at IFS Unleashed 2022. We're so excited to be here. We just had a great conversation with Ifss, CEO of Darren Rouse. Now we've got another exciting conversation. F1 is here. You know how much I love f1. Christian Peterson joins us as well, the Chief Product Officer at ifs, and Sean Edwards IT business partner at Aston Martin. F1. Guys, it's great to have you on the program. Thank you for having >>Us. Thank you >>Very much. We were talking about F one. We probably could have an entire conversation just on that, but Christian, I wanna talk with you. It's been three years since the Cube has covered ifs obviously for obvious reasons during that time. So much momentum has happened. IFS cloud was launched about 18 months ago. Give our audience an o, a flavor of IFS, cloud and some of the milestones that you've hit in such a short time period. >>Yeah, I mean IFS cloud is really transformational in many ways. It's transformational for first and foremost for our customers in what enables them to do, but also transformational for us from a technology perspective, how we work and how we do everything. And at the end of the day, it has really surfaced, served around the the, the fact of what we need to do for our customers. And what we saw our customers often do back then, or any company, was they were out looking for EAP solutions or FSM Solutions or EAM Solutions or what have you. And then they were trying to stitch it all together and we, we said like, Hang on a second, these these traditional software s, those are some that I'm guilty. You know, there's some that we actually invented over the years together with analysts. So we invented EER P and we invented CRM and EAM and all these different things. >>But at the end of the day, customers really want a solution to what they are, they are what they're dealing with. And so in these conversations it became very clear that and very repeated conclusions from the conversations that customers wanted something that could manage and help them optimize the use of their assets. Regardless of what industry you're in, assets is such a key component. Either you are using your assets or you're producing assets. Second thing is really get the best use of of your people, your teams and your crew. How do you get the right people on the right job at the same time? How do you assemble the right crew with the right set of skills in the crew? Get them to the right people at the same time. So, and then the final thing is of course customers, you know all the things that you need to do to get customers to answer these ultimate questions, Will you buy from this company again? And they should say yes. That's the ultimate results of moments of service. So that's how we bring it all together and that's what we have been fast at work at. That's what IFS cloud is all about. >>And you, you talked about IFS cloud, being able to to help customers, orchestrate assets, people, customers, Aston Martin being one of those customers. Shawn, you came from ifs so you have kind of the backstory but just give the audience a little bit of, of flavor of your role at Aston Martin and then let's dig into the smart factory. >>Sure. So I previously worked at IFS as a manufacturing consultant. So my bread and butter is production planning in the ERP sector. So we, I Aston Martin didn't have an ERP system pre IFS or a legacy system that wasn't working for them and the team couldn't rely upon it. So what we did was bring IFS in. I was the consultant there and as IFS always preached customer first, well customer first did come and I jumped to support the team. So we've implemented a fully RP solution to manage the production control and the material traceability all the way through from design until delivery to track. And we've mo most recently implemented a warehouse solution at Trackside as well. So we are now tracking our parts going out with the garage. So that's a really exciting time for RFS. In terms of the smart factory, it's not built yet. >>We're we're supposed to move next year. So that's really exciting cause we're quadrupling our footprint. So going from quite a small factory spread out across the North Hampton Share countryside, we're going into one place quadruple in our footprint. And what we're gonna start looking at is using the technology we're implementing there. So enabling 5G to springboard our IFFs implementations going forward with the likes of Internet of things to connect our 15 brand new CMC machines, but also things like R F I D. So that comes with its own challenges on a Formula One car, but it's all about speed of data capture, single point of truth. And IFFs provides that >>And well, Formula One, the first word that comes to mind is speed. >>Absolutely. Second >>Word is crazy. >>We, we are very unique in terms of most customers Christian deals with, they're about speed but also about profit and efficiency. That doesn't matter to us. It is all about time. Time is our currency and if we go quicker in designing and manufacturing, which ifs supports ultimately the cargo quicker. So speed is everything. >>And and if we, if we think of of people, customers and assets at Asset Martin F one, I can't, I can't imagine the quantity of assets that you're building every race weekend and refactoring. >>Absolutely. So a Formula one car that drives out of the garage is made up of 13,000 car parts, most of which, 50% of which we've made in house. So we have to track that all the way through from the smallest metallic component all the way up to the most complex assembly. So orchestrating that and having a single point of truth for people to look at and track is what IFFs has provided us. >>Christian, elaborate on that a little bit in terms of, I mean, what you're facilitating, F1 is such a great example of of speed we talked about, but the fact that you're setting up the car every, every other weekend maybe sometimes back to back weeks, so many massive changes going on. You mentioned 50% of those 13,000 parts you manufacture. Absolutely. Talk about IFS as being a catalyst for that. >>I mean the, it's, it's fascinating with Formula One, but because as a technology geek like me, it's really just any other business on steroids. I mean we talk, we talk about this absolutely high tech, super high tech manufacturing, but even, even before that, the design that goes in with CFDs and how you optimize for different things and loose simulation software for these things goes into manufacturing, goes into wind tunnels and then goes on track. But guess what, when it's on track, it's an asset. It's an asset that streams from how many sensors are on the car, >>I think it's over 10,000 >>Sensors, over 10,000 sensors that streams maybe at 50 hertz or 50 readings. So every lap you just get this mountain of data, which is really iot. So I always say like F one if one did IOT before anybody invented the term. >>Absolutely. >>Yep. You know, F1 did machine learning and AI before anybody thought about it in terms of pattern recognition and things like that with the data. So that's why it's fascinating to work with an organization like that. It's the, it's the sophistication around the technologies and then the pace what they do. It's not that what they do is actually so different. >>It is, it absolutely isn't. We just have to do it really quickly. Really >>Quickly. Right. And the same thing when you talk about parts. I mean I was fascinated of a conversation with, with one of your designers that says that, you know, sometimes we are, we are designing a part and this, the car is now ready for production but the previous version of that part has not even been deployed on the car yet. So that's how quick the innovation comes through and it's, it's, it's fascinating and that's why we like the challenge that Esther Martin gives us because if we can, if we can address that, there's a lot of businesses we can make happy with that as far, >>So Sha I talk a little bit about this is, so we're coming up, there's what four races left in the 2022 season, but this is your busy time because that new car, the 23 car needs to be debuted in what February? So just a few months time? >>Absolutely. So it's a bit cancer intuitive. So our busiest time is now we're ramping up into it. So we co, we go into something called car build which is from December to December to February, which is our end point and there's no move in that point. The car has gotta go around that track in February. So we have got to make those 13,000 components. We've gotta design 'em, we've gotta make 'em and then we've gotta get 'em to the car in February for our moment of service. They said it on stage. Our moment of service as a manufacturing company is that car going around the track and we have to do it 24 times next year and we've gotta start. Well otherwise we're not gonna keep up. >>I'm just gonna ask you what a, what a moment, what's a moment of service in f1 and you're saying basically getting that >>Functional car >>On the track quickly, as quickly as possible and being able to have the technology underpinning that's really abstracting the complexity. >>Absolutely. So I would say our customer ultimately is the driver and the fans they, they need to have a fast car so they can sport it and they ultimately drive it around the track and go get first place and be competitive. So that is our moment of service to our drivers is to deliver that car 24 times next year. >>I imagine they might be a little demanding >>They are and I think it's gonna be exciting with Alonzo coming in, could the driver if we've gotta manage that change and he'll have new things that he wants to try out on a car. So adds another level of complexity to that. >>Well how influential are the drivers in terms some of the, the manufacturing? Like did they, are they give me kind of a a sense of how Alon Fernando Alanzo your team and ifs maybe collaborate, maybe not directly but >>So Alonzo will come in and suggest that he wants cars to work a certain way so he will feed back to the team in terms of we need this car, we need this car part to do this and this car part to do that. So then we're in a cycle when he first gets into the car in that February, we've then gotta turnaround car parts based off his suggestions. So we need to do that again really quickly and that's where IFS feeds in. So we have to have the release and then the manufacturer of the component completely integrated and that's what we achieve with IFFs and >>It needs to be really seamless. >>Absolutely. If, if we don't get it right, that car doesn't go out track so there's no moving deadline. >>Right. That's the probably one of the industries where deadlines do not move. Absolutely. We're so used to things happening in tech where things shift and change and reorgs, but this is one where the dates are set in their firm. >>Absolutely. And we have to do anything we can do to get that car on the track. So yeah, it's just a move. >>Christian, talk about the partnership a little bit from your standpoint in terms of how influential has Aston Martin F1 been in IFS cloud and its first 18 months. I was looking at some stats that you've already gotten 400,000 plus users in just a short time period. How influential are your customers in the direction and even the the next launch 22 R too? >>I mean our customers do everything plain and simple. That's that's what it is. And we have, we have a partnership, I think about every single customer as a partner of ours and we are partnering in taking technology to the next level in terms of, of the outputs and the benefits it can create for our customers. That's what it's all, all about. And I, I always think about these, these three elements I think I mentioned in our state as well. I think the partnership we have is a partnership around innovation. Innovation doesn't not only come from IFS or the technology partner, it comes from discussions, requirements, opportunities, what if like all these things. So innovation comes from everywhere. There's technology driven innovation, there's customer driven innovation, but that's part of the partnership. The second part of the partnership is inspiration. So with innovation you inspire. So when you innovate on something new that inspires new innovation and new thinking and that's again the second part of the partnership. And then the third part is really iterate and execute, right? Because it's great that we can now innovate and we can agree on what we need to do, but now we need to put it into products, put it in technology and put it into actual use. That's when the benefits comes and that's when we can start bringing the bell. >>And I think it's really intrinsically linked. I mean if you look at progress with Formula One teams and their innovation, it's all underpinned by our technology partners and that's why it's so important. The likes of Christian pushes the product and improves it and innovates it because then we can realize the benefits and ultimately save time and go faster. So it's really important that our, our partners and certainly inform one, push the boundaries and find that technology. >>And I think one of the things that we also find very, very important is that we actually understand our customers and can talk the language. So I think that was one of the key things in our engagement, Martin from the beginning is that we had a set of people that really understand Formula One felt it on their bodies and can have the conversation. So when the Formula One teams they say something, then we actually understand what we're talking about. So for instance, when we talk about, you know, track side inventory, well it's not that different from what a field service technician have in his van when he goes service. The only difference is when you see something happening on track, you'll see the parts manager go out to the pit lane with a tablet and say like, oh we need this, we need that, we need this and we need that. And then we'll go back and pick it and put it on the car and the car is service and maintain and off go. Absolutely. >>Yeah that speed always impresses me. >>It's unbelievable. >>Shannon, last question for you. From a smart factory perspective, you said you're moving in next year. What are some of the things that you are excited about that you think are really gonna be transformative but IFS is doing? >>So I think what I'm really excited about once we get in is using the technology they've already put in terms of 5G networks to sort of springboard that into a further IFS implementation. Maybe IFFs cloud in terms of we always struggle to keep the system up to date with, with what's physically happening so that the less data entry and the more automatic sort of data capture, the better it is for the formula on team cuz we improve our our single point of truth. So I'm really excited to look at the internet of things and sort of integrate our CNC machines to sort of feed that information back into ifs. But also the RFID technology I think is gonna be a game changer when we go into the new factory. So really >>Excited. Excellent. Well well done this year. We look forward to seeing Alonso join the team in 23. Fingers >>Crossed. >>Okay. Fingers crossed. Christian, Jeanette, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and how ifs asked Martin are working together, how you really synergistically working together. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much for having us. Our >>Thanks for having us. And go Aston >>Woo go Aston, you already here first Lisa Martin, no relation to Aston Martin, but well, I wanna thank Christian Peterson and Shannon Edwards for joining me, talking about IFS and Aston Martin team and what they're doing at Speed and Scale. Stick around my next guest joins me in a minute. >>Thank you.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering the Upgrade 2020, the NTT research summit, presented by NTT research. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBEs, coverage of Upgrade 2020. Of course, it's NTT's Global Research Summit. Really excited, we're going to be able to dig into healthcare, the health system of course, something that's been, top of mind for everyone around the globe this year, so happy to welcome you to the program. First time guest Mary Edwards. She is the president of provider at NTT DATA Services. Mary, welcome to the program, saying thanks so much for joining us. >> Hi, Stu. Glad to be here. >> All right. So why don't we start, as I tee it up. We're going to be talking about health care there, just a little bit of your background, your group inside of NTT DATA Services. >> Sure. So I've been at NTT DATA Services for a year, just about a year on the knows. Really glad to be here. I've been healthcare, all of my career over 30 years. At first in the Blues, in underwriting actuarial and strategy, then hop to consulting. I was a partner with Accenture for 20, well, yeah, I think 22 years, I was at Accenture. and then, I was leading a commercial markets portion of a platform as a service company for a couple of years, and then NTT called and I was really impressed with what I learned about NTT and delighted to join the firm as the president of provider. >> Well, Mary, I've got a little bit of background in some of the health I love, I go to innovation conferences, and they're like, "We have the opportunity to really transform markets, but it's so tough to make change." Well, you've been there for a year, and the last year, there's been a force in function to change the advent of telehealth and telemedicine. I've done plenty of interviews, and heck, me and my family have been to doctors, using those services, which, at the beginning of this year, I wouldn't have thought was possible. Some of these might be long term changes in impact on what's happening, but bring us inside, your customers, what are some of the pressing challenges they're facing? And it's been a little bit this, there obviously, are huge challenges, but there's also been an opportunity to make some rapid changes. >> Great question. Well, first of all, there's no place I'd rather be right now, than serving the health systems across the US, and certainly we have impact globally. It's dynamic time, lots of change, and as you say, with change comes opportunity. But also, it's a time of deep fragility, and a time when these clients really need help, not just from NTT, but from a variety of partners. And I know, I feel and my team feels, that it's a privilege to work in supporting them, through this very difficult time. And when I say difficult time, I mean, think about it, even before the pandemic, Chartists research was talking about the fact that likely 25% of rural hospitals would fail. Fast forward only a couple of months from that, research being published and across the industry, outpatient revenues are down 11% year over year, inpatient revenue down as well, labor expenses up by nearly 18%. And so there's a lot of pressures on the industry right now. And that's what I mean by just a very significant time to be in the industry and position to help. There's a huge recovery, that needs to happen from what our clients have experienced. First and foremost, top line. We've got to get the revenue back into the hospitals. The CARES Act funding doesn't last forever, and certainly, brings with it some obligations. So bringing in that top line growth, virtual health, which you mentioned, is a big part of that strategy. At the same time, they've got to deal with all the new delivery models or working models, work from anywhere is something that all businesses have to face, and incredibly, an incredible challenge for our health systems. Because of course, it's not just about how we do our individual work, but the interactions that they have to have in conducting the work that they do. So care from anywhere and work from anywhere, are huge concerns of our health system clients now. And you have to do that in industrialized ways, because you don't know where you're working day to day, you have to be able to have fast switching, right? Because we're not in control of where we work. Cities and states are telling us, what we have to do on a day in day out basis. There's a huge concept - >> Human. >> Oh, go ahead. Sure. >> Yeah, no, I just say, as you say, obviously, healthcare is rightly so a heavily regulated industry. So bring us inside a little bit, what are some of those opportunities, some of those innovations that providers are being able to take advantage? And have we opened the gates a little bit to help things move a little bit faster here in 2020, due to necessity? >> Yeah. Well, virtual care, you mentioned that earlier, has exploded. There's a lot of dialogue right now in the industry about whether that's forever. It will never go back to the low single digits that it was prior to the pandemic. I mean, prior to the pandemic health systems were happy if they could get to 10%. Overnight, virtual care went to 40%, 50%, increase overnight, and just continue to grow. CEOs across the industry prior to the pandemic, were really focused on digital front door strategies, the ability to enable consumers to enter the healthcare system, digitally and virtually. And so probably for the 18 months before the pandemic, most large system CEOs that I talked to, were working on those strategies. They're doubling down on those strategies, because the industry is reshaping around that digital future state. The cost pressures that we're seeing in health care, at the same time, require that they think about new operating and delivery models, certainly the industry will restructure, based on what we've gone through and continue to experience. And that will mean certainly changes in consolidation in the healthcare industry, right? As certainly certain systems will fail, right. Can't support what's happening around the economics of the industry. But also within our delivery and operations, there will be and we're already seeing a trend toward more pervasive outsourcing, moving offshore, taking particularly back office functions, whether it's IT or business processes, and looking for the help that can drive down the cost structure, better automate, and innovate on those processes and delivery models, and accelerate their journey to the digital future state of health. >> So Mary, help us understand NTT DATA Services, and NTT broader, what are the solutions? How are you helping your customers with everything we've discussed here? >> Sure, well, you can't enable those digital front door strategies unless you do things like get your applications to the cloud. You've got to be able to open up your environment to trade, if I say it that way, right? To exchange more broadly, even within your own ecosystem, within your own walls, the ability to connect doctors with doctors that before the pandemic didn't have a need to connect in the same way becomes important. So at NTT, we do everything, journey to the cloud. Certainly the security that's so important to those journey and also the digital future of health care. RPA, the introduction of bots and AI to workflows and operations in order to reduce cost. In my division in provider, we worked for nearly the last year on something we call, nucleus for healthcare, which is that digital front door enabled by digital foundation and which delivers through pre-selected capabilities scheduling, through virtual care visits to care coordination and payment, all integrated across the digital fabric, in order to accelerate the industry and certainly our health system partners achievement of that digital front door vision and the full digital future for healthcare. >> I love you talked about RPA automation, has been one of the top things we've been hearing this year. It's just a top sea level priority. We love coming to events like this, a lot of discussion of research looking a little bit forward down the road. What are some of the items here at Upgrade 2020, you want to make sure our audience get a little peek into? >> Yeah, well, you talk about automation, and I said a moment ago about offshore, we're thinking about no shore, right? So when you think about the application of automation and advanced analytics AI into business processes, it's not about moving business processes to a lower cost geography, it's about automating, and enabling through bots and whatnot, the ability to not have hands touch it, and really conserving your resources for the more complex things that have to happen. So I love that concept of no shoring, and really using technology to position humans for their best possible work, solving the harder problems that we face as an industry. I think about innovations in patient monitoring, and what we can take in terms of IoT, from other industries. And for instance, at NTT, we've been doing smart city with the city of Las Vegas, for a couple of years now. And we've got lots of AI around movement, heat, light, the physical context of things. You think about how you move that into healthcare. And it's certainly about patient observation, and creating safe spaces, where doctors and nurses don't have to travel in and out of rooms when there's a high contagion rate, but it's also about using AI, not just to watch the room, but to allow AI to alert when there's something very significant happening, what kind of movement in the bed, what does that infer in terms of what's happening in the patient's room, and alerting on that basis versus a visual monitor, if you will. There are other innovations. Oh, go ahead, Stu. >> Oh, no, so sorry, I thought you had said, please finish. >> Well, I was just about to say there are other innovations that we're working on, that are really about patient well being, patient companion. I think about the work we're doing at NTT disruption around something called Jibo, which is a robotics, very cool little guy who we've had some experience using it in our children's hospitals, right. It becomes like a really a companion of sorts. There are lots of applications for that kind of technology, especially in a pandemic time, when most of our patients are isolated and craving some human interaction and these capabilities can be like that, they can be companions, and they can provide the social interaction that really lead to health and well being. >> Well, so many important topics. Mary, thank you so much for joining us. Great to hear your automation, robotics in the people, at the center, of course, of what we look at in healthcare. Great to talk to you. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. Bye bye. >> Stay tuned for more coverage from Upgrade 2020. I'm Stu Miniman, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of AWS 19 from Las Vegas. This is Day two of our coverage of three days. Two sets, lots of cute content. Lisa Martin here with Justin Warren, founder and chief analyst. A pivot nine. Justin and I are joined by a couple of guests New to the Cube. We've got David Meister next to meet Global head of sales for Io Tahoe. Welcome. Eddie Edwards with a cool name. Global Data Service is director from Direct Energy. Welcome, Eddie. Thank you. Okay, So, David, I know we had somebody from Io Tahoe on yesterday, but I'd love for you to give her audience an overview of Io Tahoe, and then you gotta tell us what the name means. >>Okay. Well, day pie stir. Io Tahoe thinks it's wonderful event here in AWS and excited to be here. Uh, I, oh, Tahoe were located in downtown on Wall Street, New York on and I Oh, Tahoe. Well, there's a lot of different meanings, but mainly Tahoe for Data Lake Input output into the lake is how it was originally meant So But ah, little background on Io Tahoe way are 2014. We came out way started in stealth came out of stealth in 2017 with two signature clients. When you're going to hear from in a moment direct energy, the other one g e and we'll speak to those in just a moment I owe Tahoe takes a unique approach way have nine machine learning machine learning algorithms 14 future sets that interrogates the data. At the data level, we go past metadata, so solving that really difficult data challenge and I'm gonna let Eddie describe some of the use cases that were around data migration, P II discovery, and so over to you >>a little bit about direct energy. What, you where you're located, What you guys do and how data is absolutely critical to your business. Yeah, >>sure. So direct energy. Well, it's the largest residential energy supplier in the er us around 5000 employees. Loss of this is coming from acquisitions. So as you can imagine, we have a vast amount of data that we need some money. Currently, I've got just under 1700 applications in my portfolio. Onda a lot. The challenges We guys are around the cost, driving down costs to serve so we can pass that back onto our consumers on the challenge that with hard is how best to gain that understanding. Where I alter whole came into play, it was vainly around off ability to use the products quickly for being able to connect to our existing sources to discover the data. What, then, that Thio catalog that information to start applying the rules around whether it be legislation like GDP, are or that way gets a lot of cases where these difference between the states on the standings and definitions so the product gives us the ability to bring a common approach So that information a good success story, would be about three months ago, we took the 30 and applications for our North America home business. We were able to running through the product within a week on that gave us the information to them, consolidate the estate downwards, working with bar business colleagues Thio, identify all the data we don't see the archival retention reels on, bring you no more meaning to the data on actually improve ourselves opportunities by highlights in that rich information that was not known >>previously. Yes, you mentioned that you growing through acquisition. One thing that people tend to underestimate around I t. Is that it's not a heterogeneous. It's not a homogeneous environments hatred genius. Like as soon as you buy another company, you've got another. You got another silent. You got another day to say. You got something else. So walk us through how iota who actually deals with that very disparity set of data that you've night out inherited from just acquiring all of these different companies? >>Yeah, so exactly right. You know, every time we a private organization, they would have various different applications that were running in the estate. Where would be an old article? I say, Hey, sequel tap environment. What we're able to do is use the products to plug in a name profile to understand what's inside knowledge they have around their customer base and how we can number in. That's in to build up a single view and offer additional products value adding products or rewards for customers, whether that be, uh on our hay truck side our heat in a ventilation and air con unit, which again we have 4600 engineers in that space. So it's opening up new opportunities and territories to us. >>Go ahead, >>say additionally to that, we're across multiple sectors, but the problem death by Excel was in the financial service is we're located on Wall Street. As I mentioned on this problem of legacy to spirit, data, sources and understanding, and knowing your data was a common problem, banks were just throwing people at the problem. So his use case with 1700 applications, a lot of them legacy is fits right into what we d'oh and cataloging is he mentioned. We catalogue with that discover in search engine that we have. We enable search cross enterprise. But Discovery we auto tag and auto classify the sensitive data into the catalog automatically, and that's a key part of what we do. And it >>was that Dave is something in thinking of differentiation, wanting to know what is unique about Iota. What was the opportunity that you guys saw? But is the cataloging and the sensitive information one of the key things that makes it a difference >>Way enabled data governance. So it's not just sensitive information way catalog, entire data set multiple data sets. And what makes us what differentiates us is that the machine learning way Interrogate in brute force The data So every single so metadata beyond so 1,000,000,000 rose. 100,000 columns. Large, complex data sets way. Interrogate every field value. And we tell you what this looks like A phone number. This looks like an address. This looks like a first name. This looks like the last name and we tagged at to the catalog. And then anything that sensitive in nature will color coded red green, highly sensitive, sensitive. So that's our big differentiator. >>So is that like 100% visibility into the granularity of what is in this data? >>Yes, that's that's one of the issues is who were here ahead of us. We're finding a lot of folks are wanting to go to the cloud, but they can't get access to the data. They don't know their data. They don't understand it. On DSO where that bridge were a key strategic partner for aws Andi we're excited about the opportunity that's come about in the last six months with AWS because we're gonna be that key geese for migration to the cloud >>so that the data like I love the name iota, How But in your opinion, you know, you could hear so many different things about Data Lake Data's turning into data Swamp is there's still a lot of value and data lakes that customers just like you're saying before, you just don't know what they have. >>Well, what's interesting in this transition to one of other clients? But on I just want to make a note that way actually started in the relational world. So we're already a mess. We're across header genius environment so but Tahoe does have more to do with Lake. But at a time a few years back, everybody was just dumping data into the lake. They didn't understand what what was in there, and it's created in this era of privacy, a big issue, and Comcast had this problem. The large Terry Tate instance just dumping into the lake, not understanding data flows, how they're data's flowing, not understanding what's in the lake, sensitivity wise, and they want to start, you know they want enable b I. They want they want to start doing analytics, but you gotta understand and know the data, right? So for Comcast, we enable data ops for them automatically with our machine learning. So that was one of the use cases. And then they put the information and we integrated with Apache Atlas, and they have a large JW aws instance, and they're able to then better govern their data on S O N G. Digital. One other customer very complex use case around their data. 36 e. R. P s being migrated toe one virtually r p in the lake. And think about finance data How difficult that is to manage and understand. So we were a key piece in helping that migration happen in weeks rather than months. >>David, you mentioned cloud. Clearly weird. We're at a cloud show, but you mentioned knowing your data. One of the aspect of that cloud is that it moves fast, and it's a much bigger scale than what we've been used to. So I'm interested. Maybe, Eddie, you can. You can fill us in here as well about the use of a tool to help you know your data when we're not creating any less stated. There's just more and more data. So at this speed and this scale, how important is it that you actually have tooling to provide to the to the humans who have to go on that operate on all of this data >>building on what David was saying around the speed in the agility side, you know, now all our information I would know for North America home business is in AWS Hold on ns free bucket. We are already starting work with AWS connect on the call center side. Being able to stream that information through so we're getting to the point now is an organization where we're able to profile the data riel. Time on. Take that information Bolts predict what the customers going going to do is part that machine learning side. So we're starting to trial where we will interject into a call to say, Well, you know, a customer might be on your digital site trying to do a journey. You can see the challenges around data, and you could Then they go in with a chop using, say, the new AWS trap that's just coming through at the moment. So >>one of the things that opportunities I'm here. Sorry, Eddie is the opportunity to leverage the insights into the data to deliver more. You mentioned like customer words, are more personalized experience or a call center agent. Knowing this is the problem of this customer is experiencing this way. Have tried X, y and Z to resolve, or this customer is loyal to pay their bills on time. They should be eligible for some sort of reward program. I think consumers that I think amazon dot com has created us this demanding consumer that way expect you to know us. I expect you to serve us up things that you think we want. Talk to me about the opportunity that I owe Ty was is giving your business to be able to delight customers in ways that you probably couldn't even have predicted? >>Well, they touched on the tagging earlier, you know, survive on the stunned in the data that's coming through. Being able to use the data flow technology on dhe categorizing were able than telling kidding with wider estate. So David mentioned Comcast around 36 e. R. P. You know, we've just gone through the same in other parts of our organization. We're driving the additional level of value, turning away from being a manually labor intensive task. So I used to have 20 architects that daily goal through trying to build an understanding the relationship. I do not need that now. I just have a couple of people that are able to take the outputs and then be able to validate the information using the products. >>And I like that. There's just so much you mentioned customer 360. Example at a call centre. There's so much data ops that has to happen to make that happen on. That's the most difficult challenge to solve. And that's where we come in. And after you catalogue the data, I just want to touch on this. We enable search for the enterprise so you're now connected to 50 115 100 sources with our software. Now you've catalogued it. You profiled it. Now you can search Karen Kim Kim Smith, So your your your engineers, your architect, your data stewards influences your business analysts. This is folks can now search anything they want and find anything sensitive. Find that person find an invoice, and that helps enable. But you mentioned the customer >>360. But I can Also. What I'm hearing is, as it has the potential to enable a better relationship between I t in the business. >>Absolutely. It brings those both together because they're so siloed. In this day and age, your data siloed and your business is siloed in a different business unit. So this helps exactly collaborate crowdsource, bring it all together. One platform >>and how many you so 1700 applications. How many you mentioned the 36 or so air peace. What percentage? If you can guess who have you been able to reduce duplicate triplicate at center applications? And what are some of the overarching business benefits that direct energy is achieving? >>So incentive the direct senator, decide that we're just at the beginning about journey. We're about four months in what? We've already decommissioned 12. The applications I was starting to move out to the wider side in terms of benefits are oh, I probably around 300% of the moment >>in a 300% r A y in just a few months. >>Just now, you know you've got some of the basic savings around the story side. We're also getting large savings from some of the existing that support agreements that we have in place. David touched on data Rob's. I've been able to reduce the amount of people that are required to support the team. There is now a more common on the standing within the organization and have money to turn it more into a self care opportunity with the business operations by pushing the line from being a technical problem to a business challenge. And at the end of the day, they're the experts. They understand the data better than any IittIe fault that sat in a corner, right? So I'm >>gonna ask you one more question. What gave you the confidence that I Oh, Tahoe was the right solution for you >>purely down Thio three Open Soul site. So we come from a you know I've been using. I'll tell whole probably for about two years in parts of the organization. We were very early. Adopters are over technologies in the open source market, and it was just the ability thio on the proof of concept to be able to turn it around iTunes, where you'll go to a traditional vendor, which would take a few months large business cases. They need any of that. We were able to show results within 24 48 hours on now buys the confidence. And I'm sure David would take the challenge of being able to plug in some day. It says on to show you the day. >>Cool stuff, guys. Well, thank you for sharing with us what you guys are doing. And I have a Iot Tahoe keeping up data Lake Blue and the successes that you're cheating in such a short time, but direct energy. I appreciate your time, guys. Thank you. Excellent. Our pleasure. >>No, you'll day. >>Exactly know your data. My guests and my co host, Justin Warren. I'm Lisa Martin. I'm gonna go often. Learn my data. Now you've been watching the Cube and AWS reinvent 19. Thanks for watching

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back there, Right, Jeffrey here with the cue, We're pager duty Psalm in its fourth year page summit Third year The Cube being here at West say, Fritz in downtown San Francisco and tying a pager duty summons up running the Western Frances. We're excited to be joined by our next two guests coming all way across the Pacific Ocean. My media left is Daniel Sultaana, group director for >>Sass for Technology. Want Daniel? Great to see you. Thank you. On his left camera. Network TV production engineer Lee also for technology one woke up. So first question. First time in the States. >>Not the first time. The state of into the states, Many tires. So it's a great comeback. California particular center. It is the >>first time for May, but it's been absolutely great. I got the whole weekend to explore San Francisco. Just one >>good give great. It's a great place thio around, but let's talk about Pedro December 1st time duty, Simon A lot. Actually, 1000 people company I P o. This year, a lot of buzz around here >>Really exciting. Great for pages. Video. I appreciate very similar company to technology wanted. Tim saws terms off genetic heritage. So there's a lot of affiliation between our two companies. >>All right, let's jump into what is technology. >>So technology wanted to Australia's largest enterprise software company. We produce software in a few vertical markets, focusing on higher education, local federal government, asset intensive and healthy. >>All right, so you guys are presenting later today on a really interesting topic referenced in the keynote. Your conversation is having increased customer experiences without burning out your people. I think the official report was unplanned work. The human impact been always on world. This is a really deal. People about the human impact duty, the pager. Peter's got a ring somewhere. You see a big impact in terms of the pressure on the teams to deliver with this kind of consumerism ation of I t expect. And that's >>exactly if you look at the enterprise well. Vanda pauses, expecting consumer response. You know, if your Netflix goes down your home tonight, you want that keeps immediately. It's the same pressure now that we're saying transferring today, it's complicated >>for me on on myself. So implementing these kind of systems that just helps an awful ones really understand and reduce the amount of time that we're spending on those incidents after Alice. >>Right? Because we talk a lot about unplanned downtime and maintenance for here, right on machines. And it's hugely impactful and a lot of conversations about prescriptive maintenance and kind of getting ahead of that. We don't hear that conversation so much about people you got humans about. The humans evolved, and I really interesting take as we go aboard. The complexity of the systems between the 80 eyes and everything's connected is no astronomically more complex. And it wasn't >>it definitely is way usedto have very simple traditional surfaces, but now it's hundreds of different services and applications that only talk together. Managing That's a very different game when it used to be >>right. So how does painting maybe help you? How did you start to build a I machine learning for it to be able to get a triage and more importantly, you know, assigned right tasked with the right people, >>I think first start off with us having many district systems bring that together, falling through. So it's like having many different nations around the world. Trying to talk, but not a common interface on bringing together was a first >>for us. What's next? They're still together, >>still pulling together now, actually understanding what we have turning that into processes that are more efficient, using the technology to move the various conversation alerts and information right ares triage ahead of time before problems actually happening. >>I think the other thing that we're more towards starting to use the diner a lot more to make more valuable got agreement, decisions, a supposed toe, intuition based decisions that we used to make >>right, replace something else that you already had kind of a supplement, >>not replace it. So So if I go back just to the technology wanted a street we're 30 years old started off before the Internet. So as we made this transition from on premises to a sax baseball way, needed tools help us in these multiple always on world. >>So So what? What are the characteristics of the biggest problems come up in terms of application interfaces or no way at all? These things tied together what seems to be the weakest link What is the one that you know most banks Now you can kind of reduced the settings. >>I don't think there's any one specific thing way. Talk about Cole's. An awful lot guards really great causes. It's very rarely ever one simple thing that's caused the problem. It's normally a multiple factors that come into play, and some of that can be. Has the engineer being cold three times. I've not came to what with two hours sleep, >>right? And you said you said you carry a pager and hopefully you don't have it All right Now >>it is on >>its way to switch number inside of me. Have you seen seen a reduction in kind of the pressure call in the qualities stuff that gets through triage and actually make it to the major >>way some stuff, way fix from bed. Now you stop to wake up >>way getting up. >>So we used a pager beauty my bollock way. Have some stuff that we built into that as well. And waken fix things from Ben >>give you exact way, have some issues that take us minutes to resolve. We've managed to bring that down to three >>wise that because better, better tasking of the people. Better identification problems were some things that drive exactly that. >>So it is bringing the multiple inputs into a central place that being interpreted and then being shifted off to the right resources to be able to fix it behind. Or there's no some automated, tacit kickoff. And that just condenses the whole into in process dramatically. So our customers seeing a much greater meantime between failure because we could get on the things a lot faster. >>Okay, so lessons for people thinking about paging me. What would you tell him? Some of your peers that are that are carrying the pager and red eyed way. >>Look, I think managing your PayPal is very important, I think way living in a world where talent is actually hard to secure. So you need to ensure that that talent is protected and looked after well nourished and grows on. So we've just page me to help do that, sure that teams don't burn out to understand what root causes also attack a rock, pools on become more efficient. >>Is there any specific characteristics are attributes in the people leaving? They're in their behavior, things that they do You're measuring as being now less burning? Absolutely >>way. Actually running employee in peace >>So they all just wrote a book. Five. So they get >>Andrea Lee. Something fundamental was around with number out of Dallas. That was That was really died. Other measure its foreign off. I wonder what a >>charity secrets. But when things were not good, orders of magnitude of work was done. Kind of unscheduled, which is causing this angst. How's that? Kind of? Just >>wear multiple hours every night. I'll be, quite frankly, people was on way. Knew that's how far. >>Right? Right, Right. >>Good. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing the story. And good luck. Hopefully nobody else resigns and keep a couple a bunch of happy, happy clients opened out and deliver the great customer experience. Absolutely. Alright, >>stand the camera. Jeff, You're watching the cube? Were some it downtown

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum, in Mountain View, California, it's the Cube. Covering DevNet Create 2018, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, this is the Cube's live coverage here in Mountain View, Califonia, for Cisco's DevNet Create. It's their cloud native developer ecosystem. A new initiative, only a year and a half old, great, cloud native dev ops oriented. I'm John Furrier, your cost with my co-host Lauren Cooney, our next guest is Damon Edwards, Chief Product Officer of Rundeck. Welcome to the Cube, good to see you again. >> Yeah good to see you again as well. >> So, you were just on stage giving a talk. >> I was. >> About ops, dev ops. >> I was bumming people out, that's what I was doing, so all of the Cisco early stuff was about new products, new toys, new awesome stuff, and then my talk was about how silos and tickets ruin everything. Right that, we've got all these great advances on the dev side of the house and delivery side of the house and the new technologies we've got, and everything's high flying and going to be perfect, until it all hits operations and things tend to go wrong. So I walked through a bunch of names we changed to hide the not-so-innocent, we went through some incidents and tales of woe and how the disconnects, and basically the siloed way of working, number one, group like with like in operations, very siloed. But also, number two, that we run our lives through these ticket-driven request queues. Right and request queues or queues in general, if you look on the product side, and then the physics of the queuing, the queuing theory behind it, queues are economically very expensive things. You know, they add a lot of delays, they create a lot of bottlenecks. I ask you to do something, I write it down, you take it off the queue, you know, a week later, the context is all different, right? So you have all kinds of bottlenecks, all kinds of quality problems, all kinds of delays, and it's an expensive way to work. Yet that has become the defacto way that we run our lives. And studies and tickets for what they're good at, which is handling problems, we use tickets as the general work permission system for the entire operations organization, and it's no surprise that silos and ticket-driven request queues, that we get what we get. And so the talk was about how to say, well how can we stop using tickets as the primary way of doing things? How do we look at the organization and remove the need for hand-offs between the silos, and then replace, where we can't get rid of the hand-offs, with self-service, right? Pull-based self-service interfaces where people can get what they need to get done, do those operational tasks themselves, and then move on >> Lauren: Great. >> That's what it's all about. >> Tell us a little bit about what your company does and how you're solving this problem, 'cause it's definitely a problem that's out there right now, and people aren't talking about it a whole lot because it's kind of the ugly underbelly of development ops. You know, they're trying to solve it, but they don't really want to talk about it. >> It's less sexy because you get a promotion for delivering the next big project, right? Saying you fix how operations work, it generally doesn't- you know the board of directors doesn't know your name. So that's kind of problem number one. But how Rundeck factors into this is that we make tools for SREs and systems administrators to, number one, organize all their scripts and tools, connect all their scripts and tools, the platforms they currently have across those silos, create standard operating procedures, and then, probably most importantly use the access control features to start to give access to people who are traditionally outside of the operational boundaries. Let developers participate in operations. Let QA participate in operations. Let business analysts participate in operations. All those requests they normally have of operations, create those services, let them do them. By doing that, you're creating more capacity in operations to focus on issues you really need to be solved, and you're making everyone else happy because you're staying out of their way. They can move faster, have fast feedback, higher quality, all of that stuff. >> You know we've done a lot of crowd chats and we had the questions come up, Is it the culture, or is it the tooling, or is it the people? Thinking all of the above, culture, everyone goes to the (mumbles), yeah the culture's going to be there. You guys are doing tooling. Can you talk about some of the things that you've seen that works. How does someone go, "Hey, first it's self-awareness, "we got to change this." If someone's into that mindset, I want to move to the new model, to be more agile, to actually streamline those silos and that ticket system. What tool do they need to use? What are you guys providing? Where is the steps? What's the sequence of tooling and adoption, and picks and shovels. >> Number one, use what you have, right? So this idea that, okay we're going to solve this problem, we're going to teach everybody to use this one tool, so everyone's going to learn this DSL or this language, it just never works. I mean, you know, three years ago it was one tool, we all know the name. Couple of years ago is was another tool, we all know the name, you know, these configuration management tools. Now we're on to the new container world, I don't know if we need that or not. Everyone wants to do what they need to do, so let them do what they need to do. It's a very lean idea. Focus on how to connect those things. Focus on how to orchestrate and organize what you've got already. And then from there, focus on, you know, how do we two things? Limit those hand-offs, so that kind of is more of an organizational issue. And number two, all those hand-off points, Anything I need something from you John, you know, or you Lauren, I don't want to have to say, "do this for me, and you do this for me." I'm going to wait and you've got five other things you're working on. You should create services that I can pull from. I need something from you, I need something you normally do. Hit an automated service, sort of like, don't do the old Savist managed service way of doing things. Do it the Amazon way, right, which is I can hit an API and get what I want when I want it. And most importantly, it's not just a one way button I can push. But I can actually create those buttons myself. So I can give the thing that I need to do, you can look at it and say, yeah that's going to work, give me back permission to go and run it. Everybody's happy, you guys get more of the scenario, get more capacity and I get what I want without having- >> So is microservices going to impact operations in a way? Cause then what you're getting at is more of a microservices, more of the primitives are going to be in the ops side. So there's a development mindset anyway. Is that standard dev ops now is ops? >> Well you need to handle the operational concerns as early in the life-cycle as possible. Meaning developers have to build from- it's kind of like in the car world, you build a car for manufactureability. You have to build the services for operability, and so that's number one. And with the new microservices decoupled world, you have to move to this model of operations because the old model that did work balances across these silos, it just doesn't work in this decoupled world. It makes everything kind of grind back to a lumpen mass of who-knows-what. So if you want to let the organization decouple, you have to be able to decouple your operations to match. >> So how long is it taking for customers to realize the value of your solutions that you bring to the table? And how much time is it saving them? >> Yeah, I mean, for Rundeck specifically, because it doesn't force you to learn new languages, you can start with what you've got today. So literally it takes days, right? Start plugging in things that you have. You can set up the access control. You can set up the options interface, and next thing you know, I've got this self-service interface and I can turn around and let somebody use it. So, you know, Rundeck doesn't do the culture and the organization change for you. This becomes a tool that greases that, makes it a lot easier to get that. >> What specifically in the tool that works for customers that's resonating in your tool? What's the big impact when people engage with you guys? When do they know when to bring you in for the tool? Let's just say that the gurus can... hey, here's the culture, you know, you do some yoga, whatever you got to do culture-wise, make that happen. You come in, what do you do? >> Sure, so for us, we're kind of more the bottom-up, right? It's usually a team that says, "hey we're getting overrun with these requests." Or it's a team that's saying, we've got to get like- it could be as simple as our restarts are a mess. There's too many ways to do things across all these tools. And then it's, hey, these people keep bugging us to do this. Or, that team keeps bugging us to refresh this environment. Or, this team, we need to give them access to something that goes wrong in production, to run some health checks and see what's happening. Really, those kind of operational, support-type use cases. It's generally at the team-level, be brought in to solve these different problems. And then where, really, the gas gets poured on, is when the upper management is following all the dev ops and SREs conversations and realize that things need to change, then they usually see Rundeck as, ooh, we can use that, right? That's going to help us unlock things, and let's do more of that, and it spreads from team to team. >> So you're really not trying to come in and boil the ocean over. You come in on a very specific entry point, and then get momentum and scales. >> Yeah, we get organizations that aren't touching their culture at all. It's literally just, we're doing things the old, classic, off-shore, application operations call center model, and we're just going to get better at that, and use Rundeck to create more capacity, standardize things, bring some more people into this process, and that's it. And they're very successful as that. And then, the really exciting ones is when the coder gets caught up into larger organizational transformation. >> You mentioned SRE, site reliability engineers. Google uses that term. So I've got to ask you, we talked before we came on camera about "no ops", having a no ops culture because dev ops is more developer. And we were kind of pooh-poohing that, and you were kind of more aggressive. I won't say what you said to me because it's a children's show here. >> Damon: Yes I'm sure a lot of children watch the Cube. (laughs) >> The ops guys, no pun intended. So, Google is really hardcore on this. Do you have an opinion on this? Ops, no ops, dev ops, the role of ops? >> I mean it's ridiculous, ops happens, right? I mean, ops everyday. John Alspot was a formerly dexy, and now he's kind of a researcher, does this thing at conferences where he says, "Everybody raise your hand, if I locked everybody out, "so hands off the keyboard, you can't do anything. "How many of your companies "would still be in business tomorrow? "Or in a week? Or in a month? Or in a year?" And people's hands kind of going... You know, a day and a week, you know? And the reality is operations happens, right? These are complex, moving systems, interacting with complex things in the world, and you have to be able to operate them. So, you know, the original no ops idea was, oh I don't want to have a separate thing called operations, I want to distribute operations where it makes sense, have engineers everywhere. Google has an interesting view, which is, no we have a distinct organization. But they call it SRE and they use more software engineering discipline to do. We have a whole methodology behind it. But they're very much proving you can still have a separate engineering and operations organization and do it right. And then there's folks like Netflix and Amazon who are more like, no no we're going to distribute it within these cross-functional teams and organizations. >> And they're still ops no matter how you slice them. But here's the thing, my observation... People get confused automation and operations. Just because you're automating something doesn't mean it goes away. >> Damon: Right. >> You might automate some tasks and things- >> Damon: Or it could make it worse. >> Yeah so talk about that pull-push, that tug between that. Because it's the tension that's positive, because you want to automate things that you're doing multiple repetitive tasks on. But that eliminates some tasks but you're still operating. Talk about that dynamic. >> Well, there's certain things computers are very good at. Repetitive, no-end tasks, computers are great at. But it takes human creativity, or sort of the super complex connecting-the-dots. Humans are good at that. So how do you automate as much of the things as possible that the computers are good at? And that gives you the time and the cognitive bandwidth to focus on the creative. That's creative in building things, creative in "oh crap, we've got to solve this". Right, and the tool should be there to support that. The idea that you can automate all of that away, it just is not- >> Give me an example, if you look four or five years and think about how we're moving fast with the evolution with the cloud and everything else happening. (mumbles) IOG, AO, all this great stuff's happening. You got blog chain, you got cryptocurrent, a lot of things going on. That is super positive, it also could be detrimental. Where does the human piece come in? Where will always be the pieces where human creativity, human intuition, human judgment... Where is it always going to shine? What specific things do you see never going away? >> It's what you said, the intuition and the judgment, right? In the day-to-day work activities, you need to use that intuition and judgment to get things done, to see the different signals, and understand what they mean, to create new solutions on how to solve these new challenges. You know, that is where the human beings are needed. So, it's both in the delivery time, and in the idea of operations. If you think of an airplane, there's still pilots. You think of a nuclear power plant, there's still operators. Tons of automation, tons of alarms, tons of things to assist them, but it still comes down to the things that human brains are good at. So there's always a role- >> So categorically, how you see security, latency is one, multi-cloud, workload movement, is the areas that you start to see the categorical areas that are never going to go away. >> Yeah, and at a certain point you're going to have things where the platforms get better, and you kind of climb the stack, and more things that only human beings can do in the past you can start to automate things. Like deployment, deployment used to be a human task, now we start to standardize things, have standard parts, have virtualization, now the cloud, now the cloud native technology. That allows you to... Okay, you've standardized things, you've build the right tooling, now you can focus the humans on more important problems, and move at a higher velocity and better quality. >> Lauren: Great. >> Great stuff. Okay, what's going on for you? What are you up to now these days? What events are you going to? What are you working on? what are the cool things you're excited about right now? >> What am I excited about? The dev ops enterprise summit, I've been involved with that for a number of years, that is the best collection of enterprise, big corporation thinking around the whole sphere of transformation. >> John: And it's growing too. >> Yeah, it's growing. There's one now in London, one now going to be in Las Vegas, you know, 1000 to 2000 people. SREcon. SRE is a... It's like a specialized implementation of all the dev ops thinking. I think that's another great place to be. And then devopsdays, Velocity, all the traditional conferences. >> Great community. You've got to say being involved in the dev ops from day one, watching the pioneers, a few with arrows in their back, but now have gone mainstream, super exciting. I think Cooper Netties brings that mainstream, just highlights everything. >> Yeah, that's that platform I was talking about. A lot of the concerns that human beings had to struggle with on a day-to-day basis are now being put into the orchestration and scheduling and the containerization of things. >> Damon, great work. Congratulations on all the work you've done. You've been a real contribution to the industry. >> Thank you. >> Good luck with the business. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> Alright, this Cube live coverage here in Mountain View for Cisco's DEVNET Create. Really the Cisco's foray into cloud native. Really getting at that dev ops culture, solving big problems, programming the networks. Cisco's bringing that together with their communities. Of course, Cube's here covering it. More live coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's The Cube covering DevNet Create 2017, brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back everyone. We're live here in San Francisco, The Cube's exclusive coverage of Cisco's inaugural event DevNet Create. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. My cohost Peter Burris, general manager of wikibon.com research. Next guest is Damon Edwards, co-founder of Rundeck. He's been on the crowd chats and does event DevOps and the enterprise, the content chair, co-founder of Rundeck, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Great to meet you. >> First and we've >> Good to be here. been in line chatting away. Quick though from you, Cisco getting into DevOps, the conversation's pretty straight forward. We think it's awesome that they're doing this. >> Damon: Yeah. >> Good direction, right in line with DevOps, things looking good, middle of the fairway. What do you do next? >> Damon: Yeah, I mean ... >> Where does Cisco take the ball from here and take it home? >> You know, I think it's just more of the same. I think that you can't underestimate the split that's happened in the DevOps have and have nots, that sounds kind of odd, but a lot that we talk about are the unicorns, the high flying special built organizations that really grew up with this in the last five to 10 years. I think where Cisco really plays is in the other 99% of commerce of the world, which is the core classic enterprises. DevOps really hasn't made that deep of a dent yet into that, I guess we call it dark IT, right? The rest of the world the people have to deal with 30 years of, in some places, different technology, skills, acquisitions, mismatches, all the legacy, all the bureaucracy of large organizations, and Cisco has a path into that and a voice of authority into that. So happy to see they're putting such emphasis on these DevOps and Agile ideas and help to drive them into that. >> And they got the app dynamics things going down too, that big acquisition. Their slogan is Where Apps Meet Infrastructure. We always just talk about infrastructure as code. They're talking about programmable networking, which is the same thing. We want more programmable. >> Damon: Right. So how do they make that transition to this new operational model? I mean, networks used to be very fragile, set in stone. >> Damon: Yeah. Someone used to joke, "Hey, they're called NoOps," because they would say no to everything from a developer standpoint. >> Damon: Sure. >> How do they transition from NoOps to a new operational model that's agile and adding value? >> The bigger issue here is that Ops is getting squeezed, right, so it's an existential crisis for them. The reason why they were always the no folks is because they're always spending their time protecting that capacity because they're overrun, they're always outnumbered, first of all, then they're being overrun with all these tickets of new stuff coming in plus incidents happening in the middle, the capacity has always been an issue. Now with this new DevOps, and really digital transformation inspired pressure, it's go, go, go faster, open things up. At the same time the same business folks are saying from the other direction lock things down, don't be the next hack. Don't be the next breach. Don't be the next major outage, right? >> John: It's really a lot of pressure It's a pressure cooker. >> Right. >> So they're squeezed. So the biggest with crisis, how do we relieve that, how do we relieve that pressure? And the key technique is to be able to actually allow other people to participate in what traditionally was only operations tasks. If you allow me to go one step ... >> John: Democratization of operations in a way. >> It is, and what they're doing, you see the organizations that really nailed this, they're dividing up the idea of an operations procedure. It used to be everything was in operations. You defined it, you ran it, and you have all security and management audit control over it. In these new ways what they're doing is they're breaking it up into three pieces to say the ability to define these automated procedures, the ability to execute them, and the ability to have that management control and oversight, let's make those in three discrete parts and let's move that to where the labor capacity makes the most sense. By doing that, operations can free up those bottlenecks, start to decouple more, allow the rest of the organization to move a lot quicker and not be in that horrible position of being squeezed to death and having to tell everybody no. >> There's a number of reasons why it's happening. Sorry. One of the key ones is that, and it brings us back to the Cisco conversation we're asking about this, is that is used to be that operations was tied to a particular asset. The server more often than not. And so a single individual could pool all those things together because a single individual, or single group, had control over virtually all the resources >> Damon: Right. >> that were a part of that. Now we're talking about applications that are inherently distributed, and so we can't look at the process of operations in the same way. This comes back to Cisco. Does the world need to think more discreetly about these new highly distributed, deeply distributed, applications differently, and is that going to catalyze the diffusion of more of these high quality DevOps principals? What do you think? >> Yeah, it has to. If you look at the business driver, which is this digital transformation, a lot of people scoff at because it's like wait, is this 1999? You need a website? What are we talking about, right? But you realize what it is is saying all these disparate systems we used to have, right. I could get my cable bill, but it's just online, it's just a PDF of what they send to the printers, right. But now on it, everything I could do when I call up the customer service agent, I want to do it through my phone or I want to do it on my laptop, and that means all those formerly distinct systems that lived in different windows on a customer service agents desktop and after the little things to check the router status blew up, well I'll just talk past it, right. But now it's really going to matter in this digital world. The business is driving that integration, so where things don't live in isolation anymore, and because of that the complexity and this distributed nature of these services is rising. >> John: Yeah. >> And when that that happens, that makes the operations inherently more difficult and just contributes to that squeeze even more and we got to find a way to relieve that. >> Great point and great analysis. That just picked off what we were talking about on our intro package of the redefinition of what a full stacked developer is. >> Damon: Yeah. >> Now full stack implies you're talking about a distributed application model where there's no isolation anymore so you could almost argue that that's going to be obsolete. It's a full horizontal developer. >> Well logic used to be full stack, but how they connect will be different. >> Which just brings up the notion of, okay, things were in isolation >> Right. >> built to the database, now I go down the network, now a whole new developer category potentially is emerging. Do you feel the same way? >> Damon: Yeah. >> I mean, we're speculating. We don't actually know. >> Sure. I mean, if you are Netflix, who prides itself on it's ability to go out, pay top of market, which means they are the top of market, and attract the best talent, only one can win that game. For everybody else in the world, this idea of we're going to have these polyglot, super human, I-know-everything engineers, it's never going to happen. We have to find a way to use our systems and our processes to allow that kind of integration to happen, and allow those people to define the control procedures and policies for the things that they know about, and then allow that all to integrate to where then we can have other folks operate it and run it. Again, that idea of moving those part around to where we can best take advantage of the labor, otherwise you're just ... You're never going to find it. Go to any conference, NASA DevOps Conference, and ask people how many LinkedIn spam messages do you get a day because the word DevOps is in your profile? >> Yeah. >> Everybody just laughs because it's dozens. You're never going to have that idea so you have to build the systems to recreate that full stack capability. >> And have people that have access to be one, rather than super human that becomes democratized at that level. >> Damon: Yeah. >> It's interesting. One of the things that you guys did at the DevOps Enterprise Summit, I know you were in the content chair. >> Damon: Sure. >> I made a note here for my ... Make sure I get this question to you, was I like this thing you guys touched upon. Is DevOps best left to grow organically or is there a growing need slash desire for an agile manifesto? (laughs) The top down, do the manifesto, or organic ... Thoughts? >> Yeah, I'd say no, because what DevOps is is a series of problem state- It's an umbrella over a bunch of problem statements and a bunch of solutions that keeps evolving. This is why the Devs conferences are so interesting because it's practitioners talking about what's worked for them. I feel like at the highest level, if you really need to have a definition, go ahead and read the Phoenix project or the DevOps handbook. They've done a great job of collating all of that, but at the end of the day it's not one thing. It's not a single practice. There's no single thing you can do to say I'm going to transform a major global financial services company into a fast, nimble operation. There is no one thing. It's a series of things that you have to try over and over again. Look at DevOps as a movement where you can learn from practitioners, apply it to your own organization, see what happens, report back, try some new stuff, and so on and so forth. >> So you could basically have a manifesto, but it's really just more of marching orders. Organically, it has to form on its own. That's basically the same. >> I think there already is. >> You could say hey we have a manifesto, but it's not like this is the playbook. You can get >> Damon: There is >> the handbook to learn. >> no playbook. >> Exactly. Okay, cool. Well, appreciate the insight. Let's talk about your business. What do you guys do? >> Damon: Sure. >> What are some of the things that Rundeck's doing that you're the co-founder of? Share a little bit about the company. >> Yeah, Rundeck is at the what is it, it's an orchestration and scheduling platform and it's used by operations organizations. Generally from large startups, but also large DevBox unicorns, but also a lot of large enterprises. What they're using it for is for defining and improving their operations procedures. What happens after deployment? Where do we define all the procedures to manage all these disparate systems, all these islands of automation. Chef and Puppet was the hottest thing around three years ago and now it's Docker and Kubernetes and everything else, and now we still have our old power shelf stuff, our late logic over there, some OpSquare stuff over there, so what are we going to do? We need a way to define the procedures, expand all those and allow people to participate in that operations world so they can relieve that crunch. We see a lot for automating the creative standard operating procedures like classic Runbook automation, with a next generation twist, we'll say, but we also see a lot of self service operations, meaning that let's let other people participate. Let's let developers define these procedures as Rundeck jobs, and then let operations vet them ... >> That's where you're talking about the operational being relieved a bit. >> Yeah, you have to. You can't just say there's one little group here that's going to deploy and run all of these things in this world. We have to let other people participate in that. Not just for deployment, which is big in the DevOps world, but for what happens after deployment that nobody wants to talk about. All the escalations, all the interruptions, all those problems, Rundeck really plays in that area help people to get that under control. >> Damon, thanks so much for sharing your insight. Congratulations on your startup and great to meet you in person. >> Yeah. >> We've had great chats in our crowd chat. You guys have been awesome with Gene Kim and the community that you're involved with with DevOps for the Enterprise Summit, practitioners sharing. That's a great ethos >> Damon: It's a pretty >> That really aligns >> awesome bet, yeah. >> with what's going on in the industry. Congratulations. More Cube coverage here exclusive of Cisco's inaugural event called DevNet Create, an extension of their DevNet core classic network and developer systems at Cisco. This is an open source one. This is out in the community. Not all Cisco, all part of the community. And of course we're bringing it to you with live coverage. I'm John for Peter Burris. Stay with us. (upbeat music) >> Hi. I'm April Mitchell, and I'm the senior director ...

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the cube in ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> On Friday, December 10th, Oracle announced a strong earnings beat and raise, on the strength of its licensed business, and slightly better than expected cloud performance. The stock was up sharply on the day and closed up nearly 16% surpassing 280 billion in market value. Oracle's success is due largely to its execution, of a highly differentiated strategy, that has really evolved over the past decade or more, deeply integrating its hardware and software, heavily investing in next generation cloud, creating a homogeneous experience across its application portfolio, and becoming the number one platform. Number one for the world's most mission critical applications. Now, while investors piled into the stock, skeptics will point to the beat being weighed toward licensed revenue and likely keep one finger on the sell button until they're convinced Oracle's cloud momentum, is more consistent and predictable. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibond CUBE insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we'll review Oracle's most recent quarter, and pull in some ETR survey data, to frame the company's cloud business, the momentum of fusion ERP, where the company is winning and some gaps and opportunities that we see. The numbers this quarter was strong, particularly top line growth. Here are a few highlights. Oracle's revenues that grew 6% year on year that's in constant currency, surpassed $10 billion for the quarter. Oracle's non-gap operating margins, were an impressive 47%. Safra Catz has always said cloud is more profitable business and it's really starting to show in the income statement. Operating cash and free cash flow were 10.3 billion and 7.1 billion respectively, for the past four quarters, and would have been higher, if not for charges largely related to litigation expenses tied to the hiring of Mark Hurd, which the company said would not repeat in the future quarters. And you can see in this chart how Oracle breaks down its business, which is kind of a mishmash of items they lump into so-called the cloud. The largest piece of the revenue pie is cloud services, and licensed support, which in reading 10Ks, you'll find statements like the following; licensed support revenues are our largest revenue stream and include product upgrades, and maintenance releases and patches, as well as technical support assistance and statements like the following; cloud and licensed revenue, include the sale of cloud services, cloud licenses and on-premises licenses, which typically represent perpetual software licenses purchased by customers, for use in both cloud, and on-premises, IT environments. And cloud license and on-prem license revenues primarily represent amounts earned from granting customers perpetual licenses to use our database middleware application in industry specific products, which our customers use for cloud-based, on-premise and other IT environments. So you tell me, "is that cloud? I don't know." In the early days of Oracle cloud, the company used to break out, IaaS, PaaS and SaaS revenue separately, but it changed its mind, which really makes it difficult to determine what's happening in true cloud. Look I have no problem including same same hardware software control plane, et cetera. The hybrid if it's on-prem in a true hybrid environment like exadata cloud@customer or AWS outposts. But you have to question what's really cloud in these numbers. And Larry in the earnings call mentioned that Salesforce licenses the Oracle database, to run its cloud and Oracle doesn't count that in its cloud number, rather it counts it in license revenue, but as you can see it varies that into a line item that starts with the word cloud. So I guess I would say that Oracle's reporting is maybe somewhat better than IBM's cloud reporting, which is the worst, but I can't really say what is and isn't cloud, in these numbers. Nonetheless, Oracle is getting it done for investors. Here's a chart comparing the five-year performance of Oracle to some of its legacy peers. We excluded Microsoft because it skews the numbers. Microsoft would really crush all these names including Oracle. But look at Oracle. It's wedged in between the performance of the NASDAQ and the S&P 500, it's up over 160% in that five-year timeframe, well ahead of SAP which is up 59% in that time, and way ahead of the dismal -22% performance of IBM. Well, it's a shame. The tech tide is rising, it's lifting all boats but, IBM has unfortunately not been able to capitalize. That's a story for another day. As a market watcher, you can't help but love Larry Ellison. I only met him once at an IDC conference in Paris where I got to interview Scott McNealy, CEO at the time. Ellison is great for analysts because, he's not afraid to talk about the competition. He'll brag, he'll insult, he'll explain, and he'll pitch his stories. Now on the earnings call last night, he went off. Educating the analyst community, on the upside in the fusion ERP business, making the case that because only a thousand of the 7,500 legacy on-prem ERP customers from Oracle, JD Edwards and PeopleSoft have moved Oracle's fusion cloud ERP, and he predicted that Oracle's cloud ERP business will surpass 20 billion in five years. In fact, he said it's going to bigger than that. He slammed the hybrid cloud washing. You can see one of the quotes here in this chart, that's going on when companies have customers running in the cloud and they claim whatever they have on premise hybrid, he called that ridiculous. I would agree. And then he took an opportunity to slam the hyperscale cloud vendors, citing a telco customer that said Oracle's cloud never goes down, and of course, he chose the same week, that AWS had a major outage. And so to these points, I would say that Oracle really was the first tech company, to announce a true hybrid cloud strategy, where you have an entirely identical experience on prem and in the cloud. This was announced with cloud@customer, two years, before AWS announced outposts. Now it probably took Oracle two years to get it working as advertised, but they were first. And to the second point, this is where Oracle differentiates itself. Oracle is number one for mission critical applications. No other vendor really can come close to Oracle in this regard. And I would say that Oracle is recent quarterly performance to a large extent, is due to this differentiated approach. Over the past 10 years, we've talked to hundreds literally. Hundreds and hundreds of Oracle customers. And while they may not always like the tactics and licensing policies of Oracle in their contracting, they will tell you, that business case for investing and staying with Oracle are very strong. And yes, a big part of that is lock-in but R&D investments innovation and a keen sense of market direction, are just as important to these customers. When you're chairman and founder is a technologist and also the CTO, and has the cash on hand to invest, the results are a highly competitive story. Now that's not to say Oracle is not without its challenges. That's not to say Oracle is without its challenges. Those who follow this program know that when it comes to ETR survey data, the story is not always pretty for Oracle. So let's take a look. This chart shows the breakdown of ETR is net score methodology, Net score measures spending momentum and works ETR. Each quarter asks customers, are you adding in the platform, That's the lime green. Increasing spend by 6% or more, that's the fourth green. Is you're spending E+ or minus 5%, that's the gray. You're spending climbing by 6%, that's the pinkish. Or are you leaving the platform, that's the bright red retiring. You subtract the reds from the greens, and that yields a net score, which an Oracle's overall case, is an uninspiring -4%. This is one of the anomalies in the ETR dataset. The net score doesn't track absolute actual levels, of spending the dollars. Remember, as the leader in mission critical workloads, Oracle commands a premium price. And so what happens here is the gray, is still spending a large amount of money, enough to offset the declines, and the greens are spending more than they would on other platforms because Oracle could command higher prices. And so that's how Oracle is able to grow its overall revenue by 6% for example, whereas the ETR methodology, doesn't capture that trend. So you have to dig into the data a bit deeper. We're not going to go too deep today, but let's take a look at how some of Oracle's businesses are performing relative to its competitors. This is a popular view that we like to share. It shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis, and market share. Market share is a measure of pervasiveness in the survey. Think of it as mentioned share. That's on the x-axis. And we've broken down and circled Oracle overall, Oracle on prem, which is declining on the vertical axis, Oracle fusion and NetSuite, which are much higher than Oracle overall. And in the case of fusion, much closer to that 40% magic red horizontal line, remember anything above that line, we consider to be elevated. Now we've added SAP overall which has, momentum comparable to fusion in the survey, using this methodology and IBM, which is in between fusion and Oracle, overall on the y-axis. Oracle as you can see on the horizontal axis, has a larger presence than any of these firms that are below the 40% line. Now, above that 40% line, you see companies with a smaller presence in the survey like Workday, salesforce.com, pretty big presence still, Google cloud also, and Snowflake. Smaller presence but much much higher net score than anybody else on this chart. And AWS and Microsoft overall with both a strong presence, and impressive momentum, especially for their respective sizes. Now that view that we just showed you excluded on purpose Oracle specific cloud offering. So let's now take a look at that relative to other cloud providers. This chart shows the same XY view, but it cuts the data by cloud only. And you can see Oracle while still well below the 40% line, has a net score of +15 compared to a -4 overall that we showed you earlier. So here we see two key points. One, despite the convoluted reporting that we talked about earlier, the ETR data supports that Oracle's cloud business has significantly more momentum than Oracle's overall average momentum. And two, while Oracle is smaller and doesn't have the growth of the hyperscale giants, it's cloud is performing noticeably better than IBM's within the ETR survey data. Now a key point Ellison emphasized on the earnings call, was the importance of ERP, and the work that Oracle has done in this space. It lives by this notion of a cloud first mentality. It builds stuff for the cloud and then, would bring it on-prem. And it's been attracting new customers according to the company. He said Oracle has 8,500 fusion ERP customers, and 28,000 NetSuite customers in the cloud. And unlike Microsoft, it hasn't migrated its on-prem install base, to the cloud yet. Meaning these are largely new customers. Now this chart isolates fusion and NetSuite, within a sector ETR calls GPP. The very giant, public and private companies. And this is a bellwether of spending in the ETR dataset. They've gone back and it correlates to performance. So think large public companies, the biggest ones, and also privates big privates like Mars or Cargo or Fidelity. The chart shows the net score breakdown over time for fusion and NetSuite going back to 2019. And you can see, a big uptick as shown in the blue line from the October, 2020 survey. So Oracle has done a good job building and now marketing its cloud ERP to these important customers. Now, the last thing we want to show you is Oracle's performance within industry sectors. On the earnings call, Oracle said that it had a very strong momentum for fusion in financial services and healthcare. And this chart shows the net score for fusion, across each industry sector that ETR tracks, for three survey points. October, 2020, that's the gray bars, July 21, that's the blue bars and October, 2021, the yellow bars. So look it confirms Oracles assertions across the board that they're seeing fusion perform very well including the two verticals that are called out healthcare and banking slash financial services. Now the big question is where does Oracle go from here? Oracle has had a history of looking like it's going to break out, only to hit some bumps in the road. And so investors are likely going to remain a bit cautious and take profits off the table along the way. But since the Barron's article came out, we reported on that earlier this year in February, declaring Oracle a cloud giant, the stock is up more than 50% of course. 16 of those points were from Friday's move upward, but still, Oracle's highly differentiated strategy of integrating hardware and software together, investing in a modern cloud platform and selectively offering services that cater to the hardcore mission critical buyer, these have served the company, its customers and investors as well. From a cloud standpoint, we'd like to see Oracle be more inclusive, and aggressively expand its marketplace and its ecosystem. This would provide both greater optionality for customers, and further establish Oracle as a major cloud player. Indeed, one of the hallmarks of both AWS and Azure is the momentum being created, by their respective ecosystems. As well, we'd like to see more clear confirmation that Oracle's performance is being driven by its investments in technology IE cloud, same same hybrid, and industry features these modern investments, versus a legacy licensed cycles. We are generally encouraged and are reminded, of years ago when Sam Palmisano, he was retiring and leaving as the CEO of IBM. At the time, HP under the direction ironically of Mark Hurd, was the now company, Palmisano was asked, "do you worry about HP?" And he said in fact, "I don't worry about HP. I worry about Oracle because Oracle invests in R&D." And that statement has proven present. What do you think? Has Oracle hit the next inflection point? Let me know. Don't forget these episodes they're all available as podcasts wherever you listen, all you do is search it. Breaking Analysis podcast, check out ETR website at etr.plus. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconANGLE.com. You can get in touch with me on email David.vellante@siliconangle.com, you can DM me @dvellante on Twitter or, comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights. Powered by ETR. Have a great week everybody. Stay safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(thoughtful electronic music) >> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Enterprise applications are an enormous market, and they're enormously important to organizations globally. Essentially, the world's businesses are running on enterprise applications. Companies' processes are wired into these systems, and the investments that they make in people, process, and technology are vital to these companies' success. But it's complicated because many of these systems are decades old. Markets have changed, but the ERP system for example fundamentally hasn't. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. This week, we're going to do a data download on the enterprise software space, and put forth some themes in our thesis around this very important segment. I'd like to do a shout-out to my friend Sarbjeet Johal, who helped me frame this segment, and he's a strategic thinker and he shared some excellent insights for this episode. What I'd first like to do is let's lay out the scope of what we're going to talk about today. So we're going to focus on the core enterprise apps that companies rely on to run their businesses. Talkin' about the systems of record here, the ERP, the financial systems, HR, CRMs, service management we'll put in there. We may touch on some of the other areas, but this is core that we're going to drill into. This is a big, big market. Customers spend many hundreds of billions of dollars in this area, you could argue about a half a trillion. And it's a mature market, as you'll see from the data. Look, it's good to be in the technology business today. This business is doing better than most, and within the technology business, it's better to be in software because of the economics and scale. And if you have a SaaS cloud model, it's even better. But the market, it is fragmented, not nearly as much as it used to be, but there are many specialized areas where leaders have emerged. ServiceNow and ITSM or Workday and HCM are good examples of companies that've specialized and then exploded, first as we saw ServiceNow blow past Workday's valuation. It was nearly 2x at one point. Now, that was before Workday crushed its earnings this week. It's up 15% today. ServiceNow took a slight breather earlier this month, but it's up on Workday sympathy today. Salesforce also beat earnings, and of course replaced Exxon Mobile on the DOW Industrials, can you imagine that? But let's bring it back to this digital transformation that you hear about. This is the big cliche from all the tech companies and especially software players. Now a lot of this DX, I sometimes call it, is related to old systems. It's especially true for the mega-caps like Oracle, SAP, PeopleSoft, JD Edwards, and even Microsoft. Take ERP and some of the mature products for example, like Oracle R12, or SAP R3 or R4. Many of these systems were put in place 15 years ago, and yeah, they're going to need to transform. They are burnt in. They were installed in what, 2005? It was before the iPhone, before social media, before machine learning and AI made its big comeback, and before cloud. These systems were built on the 1.0 of cloud. The businesses have changed but the software really hasn't. It happens every 10 to 15 years, companies have to upgrade or re-implement their systems, and optimize for the way business now runs, because they had to be more competitive and more agile. They can't do it on their old software. And God help you if you made a bunch of custom modifications. Good lucking tryin' to rip those out. And this is why pure play companies in the cloud like ServiceNow and Workday have done so well. They're best-of-breed and they're cloud, and it sets up this age-old battle that we always talk about, best-of-breed versus integrated suites. So let's bring in some of the other themes and feedback that we get from the community. Now we've definitely seen this schism play out between on-prem and cloud plays. And that's created some challenges for the legacy players. People working remotely has meant less data center, less on-prem action for the legacy companies. Now, they have gone out and acquired to get to the cloud and/or they've had to rearchitect their software like Oracle has done with Fusion. But think about something like Oracle Financials. Oracle is tryna migrate them to Fusion, or think about SAP R3, with R4, SAP pushing HANA. All this is going to cloud-based SaaS. So the companies that've been pure play SaaS are doing better, and I say quasi-modern on this slide because Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, even Coupa, NetSuite which is now Oracle, SuccessFactors which SAP purchased, et cetera, these are actually pretty old companies, the earlier part of the 2000s or in the case of Salesforce, 1999. And you're seeing some really different pricing models in the market. Things are moving quickly to an OPEX model. You have the legacy perpetual pricing, and it's giving way to subscriptions, and now we even see companies like Datadog and Snowflake with so-called consumption-based pricing models, priced as a true cloud. And we think that that's going to eventually spill into the core SaaS applications. Now one of the concerns that we've heard from the community is that some of the traditional players that were able to hide from COVID earlier this year might not have enough deferred revenue dry powder to continue to power through the pandemic, but so far the picture continues to look pretty strong for the software companies. We'll get into some of that. Now, finally, this is a premise that I talked to Sarbjeet about, the disruption perhaps comes from cloud and developer ecosystems. Y'know I remember John Furrier and I had a conversation awhile back with Jerry Chen from Greylock. It was on theCUBE, and it was kind of like, went like this. People were talking about whether AWS was going to enter the applications market, and the thesis here is no, or not in the near future. Rather, the disruptive play, and this is really Sarbjeet's premise, is to provide infrastructure for innovation, and a PaaS layer for differentiation, and developers will build modern cloud-native apps to compete with the SaaS players on top of this. This is intriguing to me, and is likely going to play out over the next decade, but it's going to take a while, because these SaaS players are, they're very large, and they continue to pour money into their platforms. Now let's talk about the shift from CAPEX to OPEX and bring in some ETR data. Of course, this was well in play pre-COVID, but the trend has been accelerating. This chart shows data from the August ETR survey, and it was asking people to express their split between CAPEX and OPEX spend, and as you can see, the trend is clear. Goes from 48% last year, 55% today, and moving to over 62% OPEX a year from now. It's no surprise, but I think it could happen even faster depending on the technical debt that organizations have to shed. And hence, the attractiveness again of the SaaS cloud players. So now let's visualize some of the major players in this space, and do some comparisons. Here we show one of our favorite views, and what we're doing here is we juxtapose net score on the vertical axis with market share on the horizontal plane. Remember, net score is a measure of spending momentum. Each quarter, ETR asks buyers, are you planning to spend more or less, and they essentially subtract the lesses from the mores to derive net score. Market share on the other hand is a measure of pervasiveness in the dataset, and it's derived from the number of mentions in the sector divided by the total mentions in the survey, and you can see each metric in that embedded table that we put in there. So I said earlier, this was a pretty mature market and you can see that in the table. Eh, kind of middle-of-the-road net scores with pretty large shared ends, i.e. responses in the dataset, but a lot of red. There are some standouts, however, as you see in the upper right, namely, ServiceNow and Salesforce. These are two pretty remarkable companies. ServiceNow entered the market as a help desk or service management player, and has dramatically expanded its TAM, really to the point where they're aiming at $5 billion in revenue. Salesforce was the first in cloud CRM, and is pushing 20 billion in revenue. I've said many times, these companies are on a collision course, and I stand by that, as any of the next great software companies, and these are two, are going to compete with all the mega-caps, including Oracle, SAP, and Microsoft, and they'll bump into each other. Which brings us to those super-cap companies. You see Microsoft with Dynamics, they show up like they always do. I'm like a broken record on Microsoft. I mean they're everywhere in the survey data. Now Oracle and SAP, they've been extremely acquisitive over the years, and you can see some of their acquisitions on this chart. I've said many times in theCUBE that Larry Olsen used to denigrate his competitors for writing checks instead of code, but he saw the consolidation trend happening in the ERT, ERP space before anyone else did, and with the $10 billion PeopleSoft acquisition in 2005, set off a trend in enterprise software that did a few things. First, it solidified Oracle's position further up the stack. It also set Dave Duffield and Aneel Bhusri off to create a next-generation cloud software company, Workday, which you can see in the chart has a net score up there with ServiceNow, Salesforce, and Coupa, and it also led to Oracle Fusion Middleware, which is designed as an integration point for all these software components, and this is really important because Oracle is moving everything into its cloud. And you can see that its on-prem net score, which puts it deep into negative territory. Now SAP, take a look at them, they have much higher net scores than Oracle, and you can see it's acquired SaaS properties like Ariba, Concur, and SuccessFactors, which have decent momentum. But you know, SAP, and we've talked about this before, is not without its challenges. With SAP, HANA is the answer to all of its problems. The problem is that it's not necessarily the answer to all of SAP's customers' problems. Most of SAP's legacy customers run SAP on Oracle or other databases. HANA is used for the in-memory query workload, but most customers are going to continue to use other databases for their systems of record. So this adds complexity. But HANA is very good at the query piece. However, SAP never did what Oracle did with Fusion, which as you might recall, took more than a decade to get right. HANA is SAP's architectural attempt to unify the SAP portfolio and get, (laughs) really get off of Oracle, but it's many years away, and it's unclear when or if they'll ever get there. All right, let's move on. Here's a look at a similar set of companies, but I wanted to show you this view because it gives you a detailed look at ETR's net score approach, and it tells us a few things more. And remember, this is a survey of almost 1,200 technology buyers. That's the N, that's the respondent rate. So this chart shows the net score granularity for the enterprise players that we were just discussing. Let me explain this. Net score is actually more detailed than what I said before. It comprises responses in four categories. The lime green is new adoptions. The forest green is growth in spending of 6% or more, the gray is flat spend, the pink is a budget shrink of 6% or greater, and the red is retiring the platform. So what this tells us is that there's a big fat middle of stay the same. The lime green is pretty small, but you can see, NetSuite jumps out for new adoptions because they've been very aggressive going after smaller and mid-sized companies, and Coupa, the spend management specialist, shows reasonably strong new adoptions. Now ServiceNow is interesting to me. Not a ton of new adoptions. They've landed the ship and really penetrated larger organizations. And while new adoptions are not off the charts, look at the spending more categories, it's very very strong at 46%. And the other really positive thing for ServiceNow is there's very little red. This company is a beast. Now Salesforce similarly, not tons of new adoptions, but 40% spend more. For a company that size, that's pretty impressive. Workday similarly has a very strong spending profile. At the bottom of the chart, you see a fair amount of red, as we saw on the XY graph. But now, let's take another view of net score. Think of this as a zoom in, which takes those bar charts but shows it in a pie format for individual companies. So we're showing this here for ServiceNow, Workday, and Salesforce, and we've superimposed the net score for these three in green, so you can see ServiceNow at 48%, very good for a company headed toward five billion. Same with Workday, 40% for a company of similar size, and Salesforce has a comparable net score, and is significantly larger than those two revenue-wise. Now this is the same view, this next chart's the same view for SAP and Oracle, and you can see substantially lower than the momentum leaders in terms of net score. But these are much larger companies. SAP's about 33 billion, Oracle's closer to 40 billion. But Oracle especially has seen some headwinds from organizations spending less which drags its net score down. But you're not seeing a lot of replacement in Oracle's base because as I said at the top, these systems are fossilized and many are running on Oracle. And the vast majority of mission-critical workloads are especially running on Oracle. Now remember, this isn't a revenue-weighted view. Oracle charges a steep premium based on the number of cores, and it has a big maintenance stream. So while its net score is kind of sucky, its cashflow is not. All right, let's wrap it up here. We have a very large and mature market. But the semi-modern SaaS players like Salesforce and ServiceNow and Workday, they've gone well beyond escape velocity and solidified their positions as great software companies. Others are trying to follow that suit and compete with the biggest of the bigs, i.e. SAP and Oracle. Now I didn't talk much about Microsoft, but as always they show up prominently. They're huge and they're everywhere in this dataset. What I think is interesting is the competitive dynamics that we talked about earlier. These kind of newer SaaS leaders, they're disrupting Oracle and SAP, but they're also increasingly bumping into each other. You know, ServiceNow has HR for example, and they say that they don't compete with Workday, and that's true. But y'know, these two companies, they eye each other and they angle for account control. Same thing with Salesforce. It's that software mindset. The bigger a software company gets, the more they think they can own the world, because it's software, and if you're good at writing code and you see an opportunity that can add value for your customers, you tend to go after it. Now, we didn't talk much about M&A, but that's going to continue here, especially as these companies look for TAM expansion and opportunities to bring in new capabilities, particularly around data, analytics, machine learning, AI and the like, and don't forget industry specialization. You've seen Oracle pick up a number of industry plays and as digital transformation continues, you'll see more crossing of the industry streams because it's data. Now, the disruption isn't blatantly obvious in this market right now, other than SaaS clouds going after SAP and Oracle, and it's because these companies are deeply entrenched in their customer organizations and change is risky. But the cloud developer, the open source API trend, it could lead to disruptions, but I wouldn't expect that until the second half of this decade as cloud ecosystems really begin to evolve and take hold. Okay, well that's it for today. Remember, these Breaking Analysis episodes, they're all available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe. I publish weekly on Wikibon.com and SiliconANGLE.com, so check that out, and please do comment on my LinkedIn posts. Don't forget, check out ETR.plus for all the survey action. Get in touch on Twitter, I'm @dvellante, or email me at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (thoughtful electronic music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Paolo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only of the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here, Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte. And Don Schmidt is here, who's a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see ya, welcome. >> Good to be here, Dave. >> So Don, I want to start with you. Transformation, everybody talks about that. There's a lot of trends goin' on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah, I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody's been saying they want to get out of their data centers, though leaps haven't really been taking place. They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale of getting out of your data centers is now here. So we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost-efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so that they can move on with their day-to-day business? >> So data centers just not an efficient use of capital for your customers is what you're saying. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get onto innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power, cooling. >> Two very well-known brands, you guys get together. So what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists. And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud when you're trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate the situation? Why would you not partner with an organization if it does large business transformation, like a Deloitte? And so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with a business transformation, pull that together, and back to the one plus one equals three from a customer. That's what they really want. So how to we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application workloads. Our job, what we're really chartered to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations, just the opposite for what Mike just said. So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT. Business-led transformation is kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> So you just described what I would think of as wave one and as you keep peeling, you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have reorganizations. That's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> There's a lot of things you have to sort through and that's where the combined alvic program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools will help make sure we get this right. Deloitte has a product called ATADATA, Oracle has a product called Soar, they marry together properly into this transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right, as well. >> Take me through a typical engagement, typical, I know, in quotes, and then how long? Take me to the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> So we see two different spectrums on a transformation and it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic, dying hardware? Or do you want to take your time and make a little bit more of a transformational journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But in either one of those we'll come in and do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help put the customers through a business case, a TCO, how fast or how slow the journey needs to be for them, create what we call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those, over time, to get out of their data center. In parallel, we're going to be doing, as Mike was saying, around all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skillset for IT to have. They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel. And then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small, little group of safe applications and we can proof out the model works, move those into the Cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale that out at its large pace, get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> Do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that I can do to get started? Maybe do a little test case? Any particular offerings that? >> It's all under the program of Elevate. We've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market to genera, put that in it, as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> The JDE migration, so you've got what? Situations where people have just broken systems? >> Yeah, I would say it's more of a JDE modernization. So you have an organization, right? They may have a JD, a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really, it's older. They may be on version nine or something like that. They don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level of capabilities of Cloud computing: IoT, mobile, et cetera. So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach it together. We work with customers, depending on where they're goin' and going, "Hey, great, you can actually modernize "by taking it up to this version of JDE "through an upgrade process," but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure which allows you to tap into all those platform services, the IoT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various, kind of four major phases that we can do, or entry points with a customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has is a deep JDE and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together. Matter of fact, we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches, here and in our future. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me a lot of companies don't have their data driven. They want to be data driven, but they're not there yet and so their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos, and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives them from data to insight. Is that fair? >> Yeah, fair. Yeah, it's not just doin' reporting and dashboards, it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chain. >> Guys, two powerhouses. Thanks so much for explaining in theCUBE and to our audience it. Appreciate it. >> Appreciate it. >> All right, thank you everybody for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE from Chicago. We'll be right back after this short break. (soft electronic music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by >>Oracle Consulting. Everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of Oracle consulting and really, it's rebirth. And I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the group vice president for Enterprise Cloud Architects and chief technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at Oracle. Chris, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Thanks too great to be here, >>So I love this title. You know, years ago, this thing is a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologist, but so you really that's those are your peeps, Is that right? >>That's right. That's right. That's really in my team. And I That's all we dio. So our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on premise. You really transforming with cloud? And when we think about Cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's it's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on premise. And then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people, are familiar with so very exciting journey and frankly, of seeing just a lot of success for our customers. You know what I think we're seeing at Oracle, though? Because we're so connected with SAS. And then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years. The legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years and then the cloud native developers. So with my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So if we think of, like a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer that actual process flow could touch a brand new cognitive site of e commerce it could touch essentially maybe a traditional application that used to be on Prem that's now in the cloud. And then it might even use new SAS application, maybe for maybe Herman process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So when my team does, we actually connect all three. So what? I was mentioned, too. In my team and all of our customers, we have field service, all three of those constituents. And if you think about process flows, so I take a cloud. Native developer we help them become efficient. We take the person use to run in a traditional application, and we help them become more efficient. And then we have the SAS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and the whole new delivery model. But the real key is connecting all three of these into your business process flow. That makes the customers life much more vision. >>So I want to get into this cloud conversations that you guys are using this term last mover advantage. I asked you last I was being last, You know, an advantage. But let me start there. >>People always say, You know, of course, we want to get out of the data center. We're going zero data center and how we say, Well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff, right? The stuff that's really big Frankie, um, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance in the scale. It absolutely needs security. And ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on Oracle database. The Oracle database has its own specific characteristics that it means to run really well. So we actually looked at the cloud and we said, Let's take the first generation clouds but you're doing great But let's add the features that specifically a lot of times the Oracle workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage, We said, Let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today. Let's look at the workloads that, frankly, Oracle runs and has been running for years. What are customers needed? And then let's build those features right into this, uh, this next version of the cloud we service the Enterprise. So our goal, honestly, which is interesting is even that first discussion we had about cloud, native and legacy applications and also the new SAS applications. We built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale resiliently in very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in. We'll call it the same pendency process. Oracle >>Mike witnesses. Why was it important for Oracle? And is it important for Oracle on its customers that have to participate in IAS and Pass and SAS. Why not just the last two layers of that? Um What does that mean from a strategic advantage standpoint? What does that do for >>you? Yeah, great question. So the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers to today are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on premise, and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower cost services to their customers. And so we couldn't just say, Let's just everyone needs to just become net new. Everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just a brand new alone. Too hard, too expensive at times. So we said, You know, let's kill us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So let's even go back against that developer conversation and SAS Um, if you didn't have eyes, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional applications will call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards, Revisit Suite or even. There's some massive applications that are running on the Oracle cloud right now that are custom applications built on the Oracle database. What they want is, they said, Give me the lowest. Possibly a predictable performance. I as I'll run my app steer on this number two. Give me a platform service for database because, frankly, I don't really want to run your database. Like with all the manual effort. I want someone automate, patching scale up and down and all these types of features like should have given us. And then number three. You know, I do want SAS over time. So we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, How do I take this traditional application, Run it on eyes and has and the number two Let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running in the cloud Native services right alongside, right? That's something again that we're doing at scale. And other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on Prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional your api been servicing we well, or maybe a supply chain system ultimately want to get out of this. How do I get to SAS? You say Okay, here's the way to do this. First bring into the cloud running on IAS and pass and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing. Take a piece of functionality and put it into SAS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping them do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want. And when they're ready for SAS, we're ready for them. >>How does autonomous fit into this whole architecture Wait for that? That that description? I mean, it's a it's nuanced, but it's important. I'm sure you haven't discussed this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologist. They want to know this stuff. They want to know how it works. Um, you know, we will talk about what the business impact is, but but yeah, it's not about autonomous and where that fits. >>So the autonomous database, what we've done is really big. And look at all the runtime operations of an Oracle database. So tuning, patching, sparing all these different features and what we've done is taken the best of the Oracle database the best of something called Exit Data right, which we run in the cloud which really helps a lot of our customers. And then we wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it. Really, uh, managing self tune itself. Patch itself scale up and down, independent between compute and storage. So why that's important, though, is that it? Really? Our goal is to help people run the Oracle databases they have for years, but with far less effort and then even not letting far less effort. Hopefully, you know a machine. Last man out of the equation we always talk about is your man plus machine is greater than man alone, so being assisted by, um, artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers. Far less paths are hoping goal is that people have been running Oracle databases, you know, How can we help them do it with far less effort and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization? Right? Improve customer experience at Centra versus maybe like Hana Way. How do I spin up the table? It >>so talk about the business impact. So you go into customers, you talk to the the cloud Architects, the chief technologist. You pass that test now, you got to deliver the business impact. We're is Oracle Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about that where you were You guys want to take this thing? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so you know, the cloud is a great set of technologies, but where Oracle Consulting is really helping us deliver is in, um, you know, one of the things I think that's been fantastic working with the Oracle consulting team is that, you know, Cloud is new for a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years. There's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, How do I learn this new cloud of the workloads? We're talking about David, like tier zero, tier one, tier two and all the way up to Dev and Test and, er, um, Oracle consulting. This really couple things in particular, Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do is they really help implement these systems. And, you know, there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget because ultimately, you know, again, that's a something is really paramount for us and then the third part of it. But sometimes a run book, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customer's environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system. So training and change management. A lot of times, Oracle Consulting is helping with run books. We usually well, after doing it the first time. We'll sit back and say, Let the customer do in the next few times and essentially help them through the process. And our goal at that point is to leave only if the customer wants us to. But ultimately our goal is to implemented, get it to go live on time and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud and without them. Frankly, uh, you know, I think these systems were sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own. Maybe the first time, especially cause I could say they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system, whatever they might be, uh, too important, leading a chance. So they really help us with helping a customer become live and become very confident. Skilled. They could do themselves >>of the conversation. We have to leave it right there. But thanks so much for coming on the Cube and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >>Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. >>All right. You're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. We are covering the oracle of North American Consulting. Transformation. And it's rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there. We'll be right back.

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle consulting everybody welcome back you're watching the cube we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise it's a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry but the transformation of Oracle consulting and its rebirth Mike Owens is here group VP of cloud advisory and GM of Oracle elevate which is a partnership at Oracle announced last open world with Deloitte and Don Schmidt is here as a managing director but Deloitte Jets good to see you welcome good to be here today so don't I want to start with you transformation right everybody talks about that there's a lot of trends going on in the industry what do you guys see is the big gestalt transformation that's going on yeah I think there's an inflection point right now all right everybody who didn't say and they want to get out of their data centers the leaves haven't really been taking place right they've been kind of moving in small bits we're now at the point where large transformation and scale of getting out of your data centers is now here so we are here to try to help our clients move faster how can we do this more effectively cost efficiently and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day-to-day business so data center is just not a efficient use of capital for your for your customers no no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster cheaper and get on to innovation spend your money they're not on hardware floor space power cooling two very well-known brands you guys get together so what was the sort of impetus to get together how's it going give us the update on that front oracle has been really technology focused it was really created by technologists right and back to the point of what we're trying to do with the cloud you're trying to do larger transformation those aren't some of the skills that we have we've been brain and some of those skills in DNA but if you look at it is why would you try to recreate this situation why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like a toy right and so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with the business formation pull that together and back to the one plus one equals three for my customer right that's what they really want so how do we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move on a couple application workloads our job well we're really charted to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations so there's it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this and in our collaboration with two organizations just the opposite for what Mike just said right so the white wasn't really big in big IT right business led transformations kind of with toys it's been known for along with our cyber practice and so we needed the the deep skills of the technical experts so you just described what I would think of as wave one and then as you keep paling you got the applications you got the business process you might have you know reorganizations that's really weird guys have expertise right there's a lot of things out to sort through right and that's where the combined elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have we both have tools will help make sure we get this right right Deloitte has a protocol out of data oracle has a product called soar they marry together properly into these transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right take me through a typical engagement typical and their own quotes and then how long they take me through the point at which you get start to get business value what am I got to do to get there yeah so we see two different spectrums on on a transformation and that really aligns to what are your objectives do you just need to get a data center because you're on archaic dying hardware or do you want to take that take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum but yeah neither one of those will come in and we'll do a discovery conversation we'll understand what's in your data center understand what the the age or the health of your your data center is help the customers through a business case TCO how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them create will create call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their day Center in parallel we're going to be doing is my co-sign around all the operational aspects so while we're doing that discovery we want to start standing up there cloud center of excellence getting caught operations into their organization is it's a it's a different skill set for IT to have right they are gonna need to retrain themselves retool themselves in the world of cloud so we kind of do that in parallel now what we want to do is when we start a project we wanna start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can proof out the model works move those into the cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it it's a large space right get the IT savings get the cost cuts part of the organization so under the program of elevate we've we've got a couple of campaigns so the biggest one we we've been talking about is around the data center transformation so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together the next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to torquas cloud and then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market do - jinora put that in as well those are three major campaigns the jde migration so you've got what situations where people have yeah it's actually more of a jte modernization or okay so you have an organization right they may have a JD at JD e or JD JD Edwards instance that's really it's older they may be on version 9 or something like that they don't want to go all the way to SAS because they can't simplify the business processes they need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of cloud computing right IOT mobile etc right so as a modernization one of the things we're doing is an approach together we worth customers depending where they go and going hey great you can actually modernize by taking up to this version of jde through an upgrade process but that allows you to then to move it over to Oracle cloud infrastructure which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level then you can actually do the higher little analytics that sits on top of that so it's really a journey where the customer wants to get there's various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry with a customer on the jde modernization we kind of work them through so that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a DJ te and as well as Oracle consulting and we actually are going to market that together matter of fact we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches here at the inter future in the analytics campaign so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven you know they want to be data-driven but they're not you're not there yet and so their data is in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is breaking down busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that that drives their drives are some data to insights is that fair yet fair yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations and so the Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR finance and supply chain guys from powerhouses thanks so much for explaining in the cube and to our audience appreciate it Chris Dave all right okay thank you everybody for watching we're right back with our next guest you're watching the cube from Chicago we're right back right after this short break

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's theCUBE! Covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by ORACLE Consulting. >> Back to theCUBE everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of ORACLE Consulting, and really it's rebirth, and I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the Group Vice President for Enterprise Cloud Architects and Chief Technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at ORACLE. Chris, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks Dave, glad to be here. >> So, I love this title. I mean, years ago, there was no such thing as a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologists, but so, you are really, those are your peeps, is that right? >> That's right, that's right. That's really my team and I, that's all we do. So, our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on-premise to really transforming with cloud, and when we think about cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on-premise, and then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people are familiar with. So, very exciting journey and, frankly, I've seen just a lot of success for our customers. You know, Dave, what I think we're seeing at ORACLE though, because we're so connected with SaaS, and then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years, the legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years, and then the cloud needed developers. So, what my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So, if we think of, like, a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer, that actual process flow could touch a brand new cloud-native site from eCommerce, it could touch, essentially, maybe a traditional application that used to be on-prem that's now on the cloud, and then it might even use a new SaaS application, maybe, for maybe a permit process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So, what my team does, we actually connect all three. So, what I always mention to my team and all of our customers, we have to be able to service all three of those constituents and really think about process flows. So, I take the cloud-native developer, we help them become efficient. We take the person who's been running that traditional application and we help them become more efficient, and then we have the SaaS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and it's a whole new delivery model, but the real key is connecting all three of these into a business process flow that makes the customer's life much more efficient. People always say, you know, Chris, we want to get out of the data center, we're going zero data center, and I always say, well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff? Right? The stuff that's really big, it's cranky, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance, it needs scale, it absolutely needs security, and ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on an ORACLE database. The ORACLE database has its own specific characteristics that it needs to run really well. So, we actually looked at the cloud and we said, let's take the first generation clouds, which are doing great, but let's add the features that specifically, a lot of times, the ORACLE workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So, that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage. We said, let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today, let's look at the workloads that, frankly, ORACLE runs and has been running for years, what our customers needed, and then let's build those features right into this next version of the cloud which can service the enterprise. So, our goal, honestly, which is interesting, is even that first discussion we had about cloud-native and legacy applications and also the new SaaS applications, we built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale, resiliently, in a very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in, we'll call it the same tendency for us at ORACLE. >> My question is why was it important for ORACLE, and is it important for ORACLE and its customers, to participate in IaaS and PaaS and SaaS? Why not just the last two layers of that? What does that give you from a strategic advantage standpoint and what does that do for your customer? >> Yeah, great question. So, the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers who, today, are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on-premise and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower-cost services to their customers and so we couldn't just say, let's just, everyone needs to just become net new, everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just to brand-new alone. Too hard, too expensive, at times. So we said, you know, let's give us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So, let's even go back again to that developer conversation in SaaS. If you didn't have IaaS, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional application, we'll call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards or E-Business Suite or even, there's some massive applications that are running on the ORACLE cloud right now that are custom applications built on the ORACLE database. What they want is they said, give me the lowest cost but yet predictable performance IaaS. I'll run my apps tier on this. Number two, give me a platform service for database, 'cause frankly, I don't really want to run your database, like, with all the menial effort. I want someone to automate patching, scale up and down, and all these types of features like the cloud should have given us. And then number three, I do want SaaS over time. So, we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, how do I take this traditional application, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then number two, let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running them as cloud-native services right alongside, right? That's something, again, that we're doing at scale and other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on-prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional ERP. It's been servicing me well, or maybe a supply chain system. Ultimately I want to get out of this. How do I get to SaaS? And we say, okay, here's the way to do this. First, bring it to the cloud, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing, take a piece of functionality and put it into SaaS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping 'em do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want, and when they are ready for SaaS, we're ready for them. >> And how does autonomous fit into this whole architecture? Thank you, by the way, for that description. I mean, it's nuanced but it's important. I'm sure you're having this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologists. They want to know this stuff, and they want to know how it works. And then, obviously, we'll talk about what the business impact is, but talk about autonomous and where that fit. >> So, the autonomous database, what we've done is really taken a look at all the runtime operations of an ORACLE database, so tuning, patching, securing, all these different features, and what we've done is taken the best of the ORACLE database, the best of something called Exadata, right, which we run on the cloud, which really helps a lot of our customers, and then we've wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it really manage itself, tune itself, patch itself, scale up and down independent between computant storage. So, why that's important though is that it really, our goal is to help people run the ORACLE database as they have for years but with far less effort, and then even not only far less effort, hopefully, you know, a machine plus man, kind of the equation we always talk about is man plus machine is greater than man alone. So, being assisted by artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers with far less cost. Our hope and goal is that people have been running ORACLE databases. How can we help them do it with far less effort, and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization, right? Improve customer experience, etc. Versus maybe, like, how do I spin up (breaks up). >> So, let's talk about the business impact. So, you go into customers, you talk to the cloud architects, the chief technologists, you pass that test. Now you got to deliver the business impact. Where does ORACLE Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about where you guys want to take this thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the cloud is great set of technologies, but where ORACLE Consulting is really helping us deliver is in the outcome. One of the things, I think, that's been fantastic working with the ORACLE Consulting team is that, you know, cloud is new. For a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years, there's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, how do I learn this new cloud? I mean, the workloads we're talking about, Dave, are like tier zero, tier one, tier two and, you know, all the way up to DEV and TEST and DR. ORACLE Consulting does really couple of things in particular. Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do, is they really help implement these systems and there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget, 'cause ultimately, again, that's something that's really paramount for us. And then the third part of it, a lot of times it's runbooks, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customers' environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system, so in training and change management, a lot of times ORACLE Consulting is helping with runbooks. We usually will, after doing it the first time, we'll sit back and let the customer do it the next few times and essentially help them through the process, and our goal at that point is to leave. Only if the customer wants us to, but ultimately our goal is to implement it, get it to go live on time, and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud. And without them, frankly, I think these systems are sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own maybe the first time, especially 'cause like I say, they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system or whatever they might be. Too important to leave to chance. So, they really help us with helping the customer become live and become very confident and skilled 'cause they can do it themselves. >> Well Chris, we've covered the gamut. Loved the conversation. We'll have to leave it right there, but thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >> Absolutely, thanks Dave, and thanks for having me on. >> All right, you're welcome, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We are covering the ORACLE of North America Consulting transformation and its rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there, we'll be right back.

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston. It's the cube covering, empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle consulting. >>Hi buddy. Welcome back. You're watching the queue. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation, not only the industry but the transformation of Oracle consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here, group VP of cloud advisory and GM of Oracle elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle alone announced last OpenWorld with Deloitte and Don Schmitt and Sierra was a managing director, but to like Jen. Good to see you. Welcome. Good to be here today. So Don want to start with you. A transformation, right? Everybody talks about that. Uh, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >>Yeah, I think there's an inflection point right now, right? Everybody has been saying they want to get out of their data centers. Um, the leaps haven't really been taken place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bets. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale of getting out of your data centers is now here. So we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business. >>So data center is just not an efficient use of capital for your, for your customers. >>No, no. There's lots of ways to do this all at faster, cheaper, um, and get onto innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware floor space, power, cooling, >>two very well known brands you guys got together. So what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on, on that front. >>Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologist, right? And back to the point of what you're trying to do with the cloud and you're trying to do larger transformation. Those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA. But if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like a Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back with the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want. So how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move on a couple application workloads. Our job we're really charted to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So there's, it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this and I, and our collaboration with two organizations, just the opposite for what Mike just said, right? So delight wasn't really big in big it, right? Business led transformation is kind of what Deloitte has been known for right along with our cyber practice. And so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >>So you just described what I would think of is wave one and then as you keep peeling, you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, you know, reorganizations. That's really what do you guys have expertise. >>There's a lot of things I have to sort through. Right? And that's where the combined, um, elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools or help make sure we get this right. Right. Uh, Deloitte has a product called added data. Oracle has a product called soar. They marry together properly into these transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migration's done right. >>Take me through a typical engagement, typical, I know quotes and then how long, like take me through the point at which you get start to get business value. What am I going to do to get there? Yeah. >>So we see two different spectrums on, on a transformation and it really aligns to what are your objectives, objectives? Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on her kick dine hardware or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? Um, but yeah, on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the, the age or the health of your, your data center is helping the customers through a business case, a TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them. Create what we call wave groups of how fast in we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. >>In parallel we're going to be doing as was Microsoft around all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their cloud, uh, center of excellence. Getting caught operations into the organization is, uh, it's a, it's a different skill set for it to have, right? They are going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel. And then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove out the model works, move those into the cloud. And then what we want to do is we want to scale that it at it's large pace, right? Um, let's get the it savings, get the cost cuts out of the, uh, organization. It was, so under the program of elevate, we've, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the, the biggest one we we've been talking about is around the data center transformation. So that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. Um, the next one is around moving JD Edwards, um, specific applications to, uh, to Oracle's cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market to, to genera. Put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns, >>the JDE migration. Um, so you've got what situations where people have just, >>yeah, and I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization or Hey, so you have an organization, right? They may have a JD at J D or J D J D Edwards instance. That's really, it's older. They maybe version nine or something like that. They don't want to go all the way to SAS cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that. But they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of cloud computing, right? IOT, mobile, et cetera. Right. So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach it together. We work with customers depending on where they're go and going, Hey great. You can actually modernize by taking it to this version of JDE through an upgrade process. But that allows you to then to move it over to Oracle cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get, there's various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with a customer on the JDE modernization. We kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE. Um, and as well as Oracle consulting. Um, and we actually are going to market that together. Matter of fact, we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches here >>and the analytics, uh, campaign. So it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven. You know, they, they want to be data-driven, but they're not, you're not there yet. And so their data is in silos. And so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is breaking down, busting down those silos, and then actually putting in sort of a, an analytics approach that, that drives their drivers from data to insights. Is that fair? >>Yeah. Fair. Yeah. It's not just doing reporting and dashboards. It's, it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so the Deloitte has some pre-configured, uh, applications, uh, for, uh, HR, finance and supply chain >>six guys, two powerhouses. Thanks so much for explaining in the cube and to our audience. Appreciate it. Alright, thank you everybody for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching the cube from Chicago right back, right after this short break.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's theCUBE! Covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by ORACLE Consulting. >> Back to theCUBE everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of ORACLE Consulting, and really it's rebirth, and I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the Group Vice President for Enterprise Cloud Architects and Chief Technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at ORACLE. Chris, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks Dave, glad to be here. >> So, I love this title. I mean, years ago, there was no such thing as a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologists, but so, you are really, those are your peeps, is that right? >> That's right, that's right. That's really my team and I, that's all we do. So, our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on-premise to really transforming with cloud, and when we think about cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on-premise, and then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people are familiar with. So, very exciting journey and, frankly, I've seen just a lot of success for our customers. You know, Dave, what I think we're seeing at ORACLE though, because we're so connected with SaaS, and then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years, the legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years, and then the cloud needed developers. So, what my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So, if we think of, like, a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer, that actual process flow could touch a brand new cloud-native site from eCommerce, it could touch, essentially, maybe a traditional application that used to be on-prem that's now on the cloud, and then it might even use a new SaaS application, maybe, for maybe a permit process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So, what my team does, we actually connect all three. So, what I always mention to my team and all of our customers, we have to be able to service all three of those constituents and really think about process flows. So, I take the cloud-native developer, we help them become efficient. We take the person who's been running that traditional application and we help them become more efficient, and then we have the SaaS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and it's a whole new delivery model, but the real key is connecting all three of these into a business process flow that makes the customer's life much more efficient. People always say, you know, Chris, we want to get out of the data center, we're going zero data center, and I always say, well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff? Right? The stuff that's really big, it's cranky, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance, it needs scale, it absolutely needs security, and ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on an ORACLE database. The ORACLE database has its own specific characteristics that it needs to run really well. So, we actually looked at the cloud and we said, let's take the first generation clouds, which are doing great, but let's add the features that specifically, a lot of times, the ORACLE workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So, that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage. We said, let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today, let's look at the workloads that, frankly, ORACLE runs and has been running for years, what our customers needed, and then let's build those features right into this next version of the cloud which can service the enterprise. So, our goal, honestly, which is interesting, is even that first discussion we had about cloud-native and legacy applications and also the new SaaS applications, we built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale, resiliently, in a very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in, we'll call it the same tendency for us at ORACLE. >> My question is why was it important for ORACLE, and is it important for ORACLE and its customers, to participate in IaaS and PaaS and SaaS? Why not just the last two layers of that? What does that give you from a strategic advantage standpoint and what does that do for your customer? >> Yeah, great question. So, the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers who, today, are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on-premise and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower-cost services to their customers and so we couldn't just say, let's just, everyone needs to just become net new, everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just to brand-new alone. Too hard, too expensive, at times. So we said, you know, let's give us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So, let's even go back again to that developer conversation in SaaS. If you didn't have IaaS, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional application, we'll call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards or E-Business Suite or even, there's some massive applications that are running on the ORACLE cloud right now that are custom applications built on the ORACLE database. What they want is they said, give me the lowest cost but yet predictable performance IaaS. I'll run my apps tier on this. Number two, give me a platform service for database, 'cause frankly, I don't really want to run your database, like, with all the menial effort. I want someone to automate patching, scale up and down, and all these types of features like the cloud should have given us. And then number three, I do want SaaS over time. So, we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, how do I take this traditional application, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then number two, let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running them as cloud-native services right alongside, right? That's something, again, that we're doing at scale and other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on-prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional ERP. It's been servicing me well, or maybe a supply chain system. Ultimately I want to get out of this. How do I get to SaaS? And we say, okay, here's the way to do this. First, bring it to the cloud, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing, take a piece of functionality and put it into SaaS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping 'em do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want, and when they are ready for SaaS, we're ready for them. >> And how does autonomous fit into this whole architecture? Thank you, by the way, for that description. I mean, it's nuanced but it's important. I'm sure you're having this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologists. They want to know this stuff, and they want to know how it works. And then, obviously, we'll talk about what the business impact is, but talk about autonomous and where that fit. >> So, the autonomous database, what we've done is really taken a look at all the runtime operations of an ORACLE database, so tuning, patching, securing, all these different features, and what we've done is taken the best of the ORACLE database, the best of something called Exadata, right, which we run on the cloud, which really helps a lot of our customers, and then we've wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it really manage itself, tune itself, patch itself, scale up and down independent between computant storage. So, why that's important though is that it really, our goal is to help people run the ORACLE database as they have for years but with far less effort, and then even not only far less effort, hopefully, you know, a machine plus man, kind of the equation we always talk about is man plus machine is greater than man alone. So, being assisted by artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers with far less cost. Our hope and goal is that people have been running ORACLE databases. How can we help them do it with far less effort, and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization, right? Improve customer experience, etc. Versus maybe, like, how do I spin up (breaks up). >> So, let's talk about the business impact. So, you go into customers, you talk to the cloud architects, the chief technologists, you pass that test. Now you got to deliver the business impact. Where does ORACLE Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about where you guys want to take this thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the cloud is great set of technologies, but where ORACLE Consulting is really helping us deliver is in the outcome. One of the things, I think, that's been fantastic working with the ORACLE Consulting team is that, you know, cloud is new. For a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years, there's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, how do I learn this new cloud? I mean, the workloads we're talking about, Dave, are like tier zero, tier one, tier two and, you know, all the way up to DEV and TEST and DR. ORACLE Consulting does really couple of things in particular. Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do, is they really help implement these systems and there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget, 'cause ultimately, again, that's something that's really paramount for us. And then the third part of it, a lot of times it's runbooks, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customers' environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system, so in training and change management, a lot of times ORACLE Consulting is helping with runbooks. We usually will, after doing it the first time, we'll sit back and let the customer do it the next few times and essentially help them through the process, and our goal at that point is to leave. Only if the customer wants us to, but ultimately our goal is to implement it, get it to go live on time, and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud. And without them, frankly, I think these systems are sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own maybe the first time, especially 'cause like I say, they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system or whatever they might be. Too important to leave to chance. So, they really help us with helping the customer become live and become very confident and skilled 'cause they can do it themselves. >> Well Chris, we've covered the gamut. Loved the conversation. We'll have to leave it right there, but thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >> Absolutely, thanks Dave, and thanks for having me on. >> All right, you're welcome, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We are covering the ORACLE of North America Consulting transformation and its rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there, we'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE everybody. This is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of Oracle Consulting and really its rebirth. And I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the Group Vice President for Enterprise Cloud Architects and Chief Technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at Oracle. Chris, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks Dave, glad to be here. >> So I love this title. I mean years ago there was no such thing as a Cloud Architect, certainly there were Chief Technologists but so you are really-- Those are your peeps, is that right? >> That's right. That's right. That's really, my team and I, that's all we do. So our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on premise to really transforming with cloud. And when we think about cloud, really for us, it's a combination. It's our hybrid cloud which happens to be on premise and then of course the true public cloud like most people are familiar with. So, very exciting journey and frankly I've seen just a lot of success for our customers. >> interesting that you hear conversations like, "Oh every company is a software company" which by the way we believe. Everybody's got a some kind of SaaS offering, but it really used to be the application, heads within organizations that had a lot of the power, still do, but of course you have cloud native developers etc. And now you have this new role of Cloud Architects, they've got to align, essentially have to provide infrastructure and capabilities so that you can be agile from a development standpoint. I wonder if you can talk about that dynamic of how the roles have evolved in the last several years. >> Yeah, you know it's very interesting now because as Oracle we spend a lot of our time with those applications owners. As a leader in SaaS right now, SaaS ERP, HCM. You just start walking through the list, they're transforming their organizations. They're trying to make their lives, much more efficient, better for their employees or customers etc. On the other side of the spectrum, we have the cloud native development teams and they're looking at better ways to deploy, develop applications, roll out new features at scale, roll out new pipelines. But Dave, what I think we're seeing at Oracle though, because we're so connected with SaaS and then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years, the legacy applications that have been servicing us for 20 years and then the cloud native developers. So what my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So if we think of like a customer outcome, like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer, that actual process flow could touch a brand new cloud native site from e-commerce. It could touch essentially, maybe a traditional application that used to be on prem that's now on the cloud and then it might even use some new SaaS application maybe for maybe a procurement process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So what my team does, we actually connect all three. So, what I always mention to my team and all of our customers, we have to be able to service all three of those constituents and really think about process flows. So I take the cloud native developer, we help them become efficient. We take the person who's been running that traditional application and we help them become more efficient. And then we have the SaaS applications which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and the whole new delivery model. But the real key is connecting all three of these into a business process flow that makes the customer's life much more efficient. >> So what you're saying is that these Cloud Architects and the sort of modern day Chief Technologists, they're multi tool players. It's not just about cloud, it's about connecting that cloud to, whether the system's on prem or other clouds. Is that right? >> It is. You know and one thing that we're seeing too Dave, is that we know it's multi cloud. So it could be Oracle's cloud, hopefully it's always Oracle's cloud, but we don't expect that. So as architects, we certainly have to take a look at what is it that we're trying to optimize? What's the outcome we're looking for? And then be able to work across these teams, and I think what makes it probably most fun and exciting, on one day in one morning, let's say, you could be talking to the cloud native developer team. Talking about Kubernetes, CI/CD pipelines, all the great technologies that help us roll out applications and features faster. Then you'll go to a traditional, maybe Oracle E-Business suite job. This is something that's been running on prem maybe for 20 years, and it's really still servicing the business. And then you have another team that maybe is rolling out a SaaS application from Oracle. And literally all three teams are connected by a process flow. So the question is, how do we optimize all three on behalf of either the customer, the employee, the supplier? And that's really the job for the Oracle Cloud Architect. Which I think, really good, that's different than the other cloud because for the most part, we actually do offer SaaS, we offer platform, we offer infrastructure and we offer the hybrid cloud on prem. So it's a common conversation. How do we optimize all these? >> So I want to get into this cloud conversation a little bit. You guys are used to this term last mover advantage. I got to ask you about it. How is being last an advantage? But let me start there. >> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, so frankly speaking I think that-- So Oracle has been developing, what's interesting is our SaaS applications for many, many, many years, and where we began this journey is looking at SaaS. And then we started with platform. Right after that we started saying how do we augment SaaS? This OCI for us or Oracle Cloud Infrastructure Gen 2 could be considered a last mover advantage. What does that mean? We join this cloud journey later than the others but because of our heritage, of the workloads we've been running, right? We've been running enterprise scale workloads for years, the cloud itself has been phenomenal, right? It's easier to use, pay for what you use, elastic etc. These are all phenomenal features, fell. And based on our enterprise heritage it wasn't delivering resilience at scale, even for like the traditional applications we've known on prem forever. People always say, "Chris we want to get out of the data center. "We're going zero data center." And I always say, "Well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff?" Right? The stuff that's really big, it's cranky, doesn't handle just, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance. It needs scale. It absolutely needs security and ultimately a lot of these applications truly have relied on an Oracle database. The Oracle database has it's own specific characteristics that it needs to run really well. So we actually looked at the cloud and we said, let's take the first generation clouds, which are doing great, but let's add the features that specifically, a lot of times, the Oracle workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So that's what we mean when we say, last mover advantage. We said, let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today. Let's look at the workloads that, frankly Oracle runs and has been running for years, what our customers needed and then let's build those features right into this next version of the cloud, we can service the enterprise. So our goal, honestly what's interesting is, even that first discussion we had about cloud native, and legacy applications, and also the new SaaS applications, we built a cloud that handles all three use cases, at scale resiliently in a very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases, all in, we'll call it the same tendency for us at Oracle. >> Let's unpack that a little bit and get into, sort of, trying to understand the strategy and I want to frame it. So you were the last really to enter the cloud market, let's sort of agree on that. >> Chris: Yup. >> And you kind of built it from the ground up. And it's just too expensive now. The CapEx required to get into cloud is just astronomical. Now, even for a SaaS company, there's no sense. If you're a new SaaS company, you're going to run it in the cloud. Somebody else's cloud. There are some SaaS companies that of course run their own data centers but they're fewer and further between. But so, and I've also said that your advantage relative to the hyper scalers is that you've got this big SaaS estate and it somewhat insulates you, actually more than somewhat. Largely insulates you from the race to the bottom. On compute and storage, cost per bit kind of thing. But my question is, why was it was it important for Oracle, and is it important for Oracle and it's customers, that it had to participate in IaaS and PaaS and SaaS? Why not just the last two layers of that? What does that give you from a strategic advantage standpoint and what does that do for your customer? >> Yeah, great question. So the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers to today that are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on premise and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver a lower cost services to their customers. And, so, we couldn't just say let's just-- everyone needs to just become net new. Everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just to brand new alone. Too hard, too expensive at times. So we said, let's give us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So, let's even go back again to that developer conversation in SaaS. If you didn't have IaaS, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional application. We'll call it Peoplesoft, or JD Edwards or E-Business suite or even-- there's some massive applications that are running on the Oracle cloud right now that are custom applications built on the Oracle database. What they want is they said, "Give me the lowest ASP to get predictable performance IaaS" I'll run my app's tier on this. Number two, give me a platform service for database 'cause frankly, I don't really want to run your database, like, with all the manual effort, I want someone to automate, patching, scale up and down, and all these types of features like the pilot should have given us. And then number three, I do want SaaS over time. So we spend a lot of time with our customers, really saying, "how do I take this traditional application, run it on IaaS and PaaS?" And then number two, "let's modernize it at scale." Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running them as cloud native services right alongside, right? That's something again, that we're doing at scale, and other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, "You know, I've got this legacy traditional ERP. Been servicing we well or maybe a supply chain system. Ultimately I want to get out of this. How do I get to SaaS?" And we say, "Okay, here's the way to do this. First, bring into the cloud, run it on IaaS and PaaS. And then selectively, I call it cloud slicing. Take a piece of functionality and put it into SaaS." For ERP, it might be something like start with GL, a new chart of accounts in ERP SaaS. And then slowly over a number of your journey as needed, adopt the next module. So this way, I mean, I'll just say this is the fun part of as an architect, our jobs, we're helping customers move to the cloud at scale, we're helping them do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want. And when they're ready for SaaS, we're ready for them. And I would just say the other IaaS providers, here's the challenge we're seeing Dave, is that they're getting to the cloud, they're doing a little bit of modernization, but they want PaaS, they also want to ultimately get to SaaS, and frankly, those other clouds don't offer them. So they're kind of in this we're stuck on this lift and shift. But then we want to really move and modernize and go to SaaS. And I would say that's what Oracle is doing right now for enterprises. We're really helping them move these traditional workloads to the cloud IaaS and PaaS. And then number two, they're moving to SaaS when they're ready. And even when you get to SaaS, everyone says, "You know what, leave it as as vanilla as possible, but I want to make myself differentiated." In that case, again, IaaS and PaaS, coupled alongside a SaaS environment, you can build your specific differentiation. And then you leave the ERP pristine, so it can be upgraded constantly with no impact to your specific sidebar applications. So, I would say that the best clouds in the world, I mean, I think you're going to see a lot of the others are trying to, either SaaS providers trying to grow a PaaS, or maybe some of the IaaS players are trying to add SaaS. So, I think you're going to see this blending more and more because customers are asking for the flexibility For either or all three. But I will say that-- >> How can I get PaaS and SaaS-minus. >> Absolutely, I mean, what are you doing there? You're offering choice. There's not a question in my mind that Cisco is a huge customer of ours, they have a product that is one of their SaaS applications running Tetration on the Oracle Cloud. It actually doesn't run any Oracle. It's all cloud native applications. Natively built with a number of open source components. They run just IaaS. That's it, the Tetration product, and it runs fast. The Gen 2 cloud has a great architecture underneath it, flattened fast network. By far, for us, we feel like we really gotten into the guts of IaaS and made it run more efficiently. Other customers say, "I've got a huge Oracle footprint in the data center, help me get it out." So up to the cloud that they go, and they say I don't want just IaaS because that means I'm writing all the automation, like I have to manage all the patching. And this is where for us platform services really help because we give them the automation at scale, which allows their people to do other things, that may be more impactful for the business. >> I want to ask you about, the automation piece. And you guys have made the statement that your Gen 2 cloud is fundamentally different than how other clouds work, Gen 1 clouds. And the Gen 1 clouds which are evolving, the hyper scalars are evolving, but how is Oracle's Gen 2 cloud fundamentally different? >> Yeah. I think that one of the most basic elements of the cloud itself was that for us, we had to start with the security and the network. So if you imagine that those two components really, A, could dictate speed and performance, plus doing it in a secure fashion. The two things that you'll see an awful lot about for us, is that we've embedded not only security at every level. But we've even separated off what we call, every cloud, you have a number of compute instances and then you have storage, right? In the middle, you have a network. However, to become a cloud, and to offer the elastic scale and the multiple sharing of resources, you have to have something called a control plane. What we've done is we've actually extracted the control plane out into its own separate instance of a running machine. Other clouds actually have the control plane inside of there running compute cores. Now, what does that do? Well, the fact of the matter is, we assume that the control plane and the network should be completely separate from what you run on your cloud. So if you run a virtual machine, or if you run a bare metal instance, there's no Oracle software running on it. We actually don't trust customers, and we actually tell the customers don't trust us, either. So by separating out the control plane, and all the code that runs that environment off of the running machine, you get more cores meaning like you have-- There's no Oracle tax for running this environment. It's a separate conmputer for each one, the control plane. Number two, it's more secure. We actually don't have any running code on that machine, if you had a bare metal instance. So therefore, there's no way for one machine in the cloud to infect another machine if the control plane was compromised. The second part of the network, the guys who have been building this cloud, Don Johnson, a lot of the guys came from other clouds before and they said, "yYou know the one thing we have to do is make a we call it Flattened Fast Clause Network that really is never oversubscribed." So you'll constantly see and people always ask me same question, "Dave, why is the performance faster if its the same VM shape? "Like I don't understand why it's going faster, like high performance computing." And the reason again a lot of times is the network itself is that it's just not oversubscribed. It's constantly flowing all the data, there's no such thing as congestion on the network, which can happen. The last part, we actually added 52 terabytes of local storage to every one of those compute nodes. So therefore, there's a possibility you don't even have to traverse the network to do some really serious work on the local machine. So you add these together, the idea is make the network incredibly fast, separate out the control plane and run the software and security layer separate from the entire node where all the customers work is being done. Number three, give the customers more compute, by obviously having us offload it to a separate machine. And the last thing is put local storage and everything is what's called NVMe storage. Whether it's local or remote, everything's NVMe, though the IOPS we get are really off the charts. And again, it shows up in our benchmarks. >> Yeah, so you're getting, atomic access to memory. But in your control plane, you describe that control plane that's running. Sorry to geek out everybody. But I'm kind of curious, you know. You got me started, Chris. So that's control-- >> Yeah, that's good. >> the Oracle cloud or runs. Where's it live? >> It's essentially separated from the compute node. We actually have it in between, there's a compute node that all the work is done from the customer, could be on like a Kubernetes container or VM, whatever it might be. The control plane literally is separate. And it lives right next to the actual compute node the customer is using. So it's actually embedded on a SmartNIC, it's a completely different cores. It's a different chipset, different memory structure, everything. And it does two things. It helps us control what happens up in the customers compute nodes in VMs. And it also helps us virtualize the network down as well. So it literally, the control plane is separate and distinct. It's essentially a couple SmartNICS. >> And then how does Autonomous fit into this whole architecture? I'm speaking by the way for that description, I mean, it's nuanced, but it's important. I'm sure you having this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologists, they want to know this stuff, and they want to know how it works. And then, obviously, we'll talk about what the business impact is. But talk about Autonomous and where that fit. >> Yeah, so as Larry says that there are two products that really dictate the future of Oracle and our success with our customers. Number one is ERP-SaaS. The second one is Autonomous Database. So the Autonomous Database, what we've done is really taken a look at all the runtime operations of an Oracle database. So tuning, patching, securing all these different features, and what we've done is taken the best of the Oracle database, the best of something called Exadata which we run on the cloud, which really helps a lot of our customers. And then we've wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it really manage itself, tune itself, patch itself, scale up and down, independent between compute and storage. So, why that's important though, is that really our goal is to help people run the Oracle database as they have for years but with far less effort, and then even not only far less effort, hopefully, a machine plus man, out of the equation we always talk about is man plus machine is greater than man alone. So being assisted by artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers with far less costs. >> Yeah, the greatest chess player in the world is a combination of man and machine, you know that? >> You know what? It makes sense. It makes sense because, there's a number of things that we can do as humans that are just too difficult to program. And then there are other things where machines are just phenomenal, right? I mean, there's no-- Think of Google Maps, you ask it wherever you want to go. And it'll tell you in a fraction of a second, not only the best route, but based on traffic from maybe the last couple of years. right now, we don't have autonomous cars, right, that are allowed to at least drive fully autonomous yet, it's coming. But in the meantime, a human could really work through a lot of different scenarios it was hard to find a way to do that in autonomous driving. So I do believe that it's going to be a great combination. Our hope and goal is that the people who have been running Oracle databases, how can we help them do it with far less effort and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization, right? Improve customer experience, etc. Versus maybe like, how do I spin up a table? One of our customers is a huge consumer. They said, "our goal is how do we reduce the time to first table?" Meaning someone in the business just came up with an idea? How do I reduce the time to first table. For some of our customers, it can take months. I mean, if you were going to put in a new server, find a place in the data center, stand up a database, make the security controls, right and etc. With the autonomous database, I could spin one up right here, for us and, and we could start using it and it would be secure, which is utmost and paramount. It would scale up and down, meaning like just based on workload, as I load data into it, it would tune itself, it would help us with the idea of running more efficiently, which means less cores, which means also less cost. And then the constant security patches that may come up because of different threats or new features. It would do that potentially on its own if you allow it. Obviously some people want to watch you know what exactly it's going to do first. Do regression testing. But it's an exciting product because I've been working with the Oracle database for about 20 years now. And to see it run in this manner, it's just phenomenal. And I think that's the thing, a lot of the database teams have seen. Pretty amazing work. >> So I love this conversation. It's hardcore computer science, architecture, engineering. But now let's end with by up leveling this. We've been talking, a lot about Oracle Consulting. So let's talk about the business impact. So you go into customers, you talk to the cloud architects, the chief technologist, you pass that test. Now you got to deliver the business impact. Where does Oracle consulting fit with regard to that, and maybe you could talk about sort of where you guys want to take this thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so, the cloud is great set of technologies, but where Oracle consulting is really helping us deliver is in the outcome. One of the things I think that's been fantastic working with the Oracle consulting team is that cloud is new. For a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years, there's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, "How do I learn this new cloud?" I mean, the workloads, we're talking about deeper, like tier zero, tier one, tier two, and all the way up to Dev and Test and DR, Oracle Consulting does really, a couple of things in particular, number one, they start with the end in mind. And number two, that they start to do is they really help implement these systems. And, there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time, and better be under budget, 'cause ultimately, again, that's something that's really paramount for us. And then the third part of it a lot of it a lot of times is run books, right? We actually don't want to just live at our customers environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system. So training and change management. A lot of times Oracle Consulting is helping with run books. We usually will, after doing it the first time, we'll sit back and let the customer do it the next few times, and essentially help them through the process. And our goal at that point is to leave, only if the customer wants us to but ultimately, our goal is to implement it, get it to go live on time, and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud. And without them, frankly, I think these systems are sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own, maybe the first time especially because like I say, they're closing the books, they might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system or whatever they might be. Too important to leave to chance. So they really help us with helping the customer become live and become very competent and skilled, because they can do it themselves. >> But Chris, we've covered the gamut. We're talking about, architecture, went to NVMe. We're talking about the business impact, all of your automation, run books, loved it. Loved the conversation, but to leave it right there but thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your insights, great stuff. >> Absolutely, thanks Dave, and thank you for having me on. >> All right, you're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We are covering the Oracle North America Consulting transformation and its rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Reporter: From Chicago, it's The Cube. Covering Oracle transformation date 2020. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)