>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Susic on digital brought to you by Susan. >>Right? Hi. I'm Stew Minuteman. And welcome to the Cube's coverage of Susic on Digital 20. Rather than gathering together in Dublin, we have a larger audience online watching everything digitally, really helping a happy to have on the program. Back to the program. One of our cube alumni. She is fresh off the keynote stage. Melissa DiDonato. She is the CEO of Tuesday. Melissa. So good to see you. Wish it could all be in person. But, you know, thanks for having the Cube in. Ah, >>thank you very much for joining us as well. My third time on the show. I'm really, really pleased to be an important part of our digital experience with Susie. Conditional. So still what? Nice to see you. >>All right. So last time you were on the program, you spoke to Dave. Dave a lot today about how you know you're keeping your employees safe and keeping them productive. The note I heard clearly from you in your keynote presentation is really a sense of optimism. So, like, if you could bring us a little bit inside. You know, I'm sure you're talking to a lot of your customers. What is it even then in these unprecedented Well, I'm giving you that sense of optimism. >>Yeah, there's no denying where we are in the world with Kobe. 19. We have a whole different way of looking at the world. Every business in every industry has been impacted, and not just the working life but our family life. The way we communicate, the way we run our homes, our environments at work is it's been very much integrated now. It's a very different way of adding a whole different level of stress that we didn't have in our business life just a couple of months ago. And I think, as I told Dave, the most important thing for me is number one to make sure that our employees remain self safe and healthy. That's number one, And I think that as we experience negativity across the world of news and social media, etcetera, that my hope is that the community and the Susan family remain optimistic and you know, why do we have the ability to remain optimistic when everyone else is experiencing a lot of doom and gloom. One White House, because you rightly so said, Let me talk about Sousa and how we wouldn't in our community. Our thesis is the power of many. This power of many in a virtual community really drives innovation. We're not like proprietary software and many other tech companies where you have to resign the building to make sure that we maintain and evangelize innovation that you live and deliver to your customers. For us, it's very different. Our community is the basis for innovation. It's the pillar of our community, of our company, our ethos in our value. So it's Susa. This spirit of collaboration and integration is live today more than ever before, with 99% of our employees working from home being engaged a very different way than maybe they're used to. But not so unlike engaging the innovation that we get out of our community. I think you mentioned something else do that's really important. That's productivity. We've moved away as of the first of March and measuring productivity in exchange for measuring the way that we integrate and elaborate and engage with our place. So instead of productivity, we're measuring engagement. Our employees are becoming much more engaged with each other with our customers and our communities. And of course, our partners they're giving back to their community. They're measuring the engagement they're successful means of delivering or how much they can give back to their communities. So we've seen a huge rise and are employees giving back to their communities around them. For example, I met an employee who is donating a very big part of his bonus percentage to a hospital to pay for lunches for frontline health workers near his his home, our nerve of Germany office. They're giving their lunch vouchers and donating that to all of the homeless people around their community. And then we've got employees around Italy, one in particular that's created a virtual classroom for a son school and the community around him. So you know, everyone's really pitching in, I think finally, from a community perspective, we're also sponsoring a numerous amount of hackathons. For example, in Germany, the government has recently held a hackathon for community based solutions to combat code. In 19 our employees participated in engaged with their one day off. We give every employee one day off a year to engage for charitable cause and the results of this hackathon is a better understanding of the data per states about code in 19 across the country. So I think all in all, everything that we're doing is really trying to, you know, utilize the community as we always have, is open source. Open source is developed in a community that often times does not sit together. And now we're trying to really engage with that community as much as possible to keep innovation alive, to keep collaboration alive and not just for the purpose of innovation, but for the purpose of combating the virus and giving hope and first gratitude to this community and across all of our population across the world. I really do believe that in challenging times like today, it's the best way to realize the innovation that we can put together, triggering innovation for good. But also bringing out the best in humanity is it's amazing to see what you know. Thousands and thousands of people in the open source world are giving and delivering and collaborating in which to solve the worlds Problems Cove in 19 but also innovation problems for today and tomorrow >>Yeah, Melissa said some great stories that you have there, you know, we, of course, are huge supporters of communities in general. I've had a great pleasure not only recently but over the last 20 years, watching Linux communities on what's happening in open source. One of the key constituencies, obviously, to your audience, our developers. There are quite a few announcements that I talked about on the keynote stage was wondering if you could help walk through Ah, for our audience. You know, the primary announcements and especially, you know, the impact that it will have on the developer developer community. >>Yeah, that's right. So the developers are entranced, obviously, as part of Susa, where deep open source roots and they're ingrained in our culture. So we just recently focused on a new developer community with content specifically targeted to developer use cases for application platform offering. So over the next couple of months, we're gonna roll out content analytics, open source, Dev >>ops. All >>these things that you are sure loves to micro services, containers, kubernetes edge and and the like. So a lot of innovative technologies as our content. Now what we are offering in the developer community is the SuSE Cloud application platform developer sandbox. We wanted to make it easy for these developers who just spoke of to benefit from the best practices that evolved from the cloud native application delivery that we offer every day. Of course, the customers and now for free to our developers, we want them to be able to easier, easily apply their skills to create applications that can run anywhere, anywhere from on Prem Private Public Cloud and the access is and the developers to get access and hands on experience. That SuSE cloud application platform without having to spend all of their own environment is it is a big test or commitment to the developer community that can explore tests and develop without having any hardware services themselves. It's a really I've signed up myself. Hopefully, you will, too, and join the community and give some feedback and engage in this open source community. For developers, it's really important for everybody. You can find it at developer dot cisco dot com, in addition to the sandbox is I just mentioned you'll also find there are developer forums. It's got getting started guides and other useful examples of how to accelerate the adoption of the cloud application platform and all of the demo tools you can use. It's I can't express the importance enough that we put in place in our developers. Our developer community is a really important part to reach the innovation that we so hoped and live for every day. So we need to provide them the tools to be successful. So I think when you're gonna see Studio is a lot more engagement with our developer community and a lot more integration with them, a collaboration with them. As time goes on, it's a big part of our focus coming in now to 2020 and, of course, the second half of the year. >>So, Melissa, one of the other point that you made in your keynote is that Souza is now, you know, fully independent. It's always been an open source company, a long history there. But what does this one year of independence mean for your customers and that partner ecosystem? >>Yeah, it's a big deal for us, so it's a really big deal. We swung away from micro focus a year ago and mark so just now, Pastor, one year we're now in control of our destiny and the future is very, very bright. I think going forward in the next year, what you can expect from Susan is continued focus and support our customers, of course, the digital transformation efforts that we need to put into helping them go through this transformation. I saw a cartoon, You know, the other day everyone probably saw who's leading your digital transformation. Experts efforts your CEO, your see Iot or Corona virus. And I think we all agree that Corona viruses, but a new effort and focus on the digital transformation of our companies and our customers need to go through. So I think we need to be sure that with this new independence that we focus on that digital transformation effort. Couple that with our open source innovation and no matter where our customers are on their journey, that we give them the enabling tools to get there. We start with simplifying, modernizing and accelerating our customers journey, and you're gonna hear a lot about that in the keynote that I just did, um, simplifying first. So simplifying and optimizing our customer's applications and the data to exist in I T Environment. That's going to help them go on the journey to modernize, modernizing everything about the I T infrastructure as well as their legacy applications, to utilize modernizing, modernized technologies like containers or edge or cloud, or for the like. By simplifying and modernizing, our customers can then begin to accelerate. They can accelerate innovation. They can accelerate growth. They can accelerate delivery of whatever services and applications they want to deliver, for example, capabilities around AI and edge. And they can scale their companies to bring markets product to market faster and even at a lower cost. So I think when you think about Susan our independence, I want our customers to know and understand that our focus will always be to simplify, modernize and accelerate, but also to remain nimble, how our customers, our partners, our community, innovate faster based on customer business requirements and to solve problems of today and tomorrow, not just what we knew before. So we're much more connected with our customers and ever before, and we want to be able to offer them the flexibility that they heard that learned to love it. Enjoy from Susa more some now than ever our customers agenda. Su is our only agenda in a world where everyone wants to be the best at everything. The only thing we want to be number one with is customer satisfaction. We will say number one in the market because we love servicing our customers. We love being maniacally focused on our customers, needs their business problems and creating solutions that are tailored with services that make them more successful. I think you can expect Souza to enter new markets like powering, for example, autonomous vehicles with safety certified legs and other really innovative technologies that were developed every single day in our community with our developers to solve customer business problems. I say to the teams every day, you know, we're big enough for scale, and we're small enough to be nimble and to be flexible to service our customers first. So expecting that from Susa in our independence, but always, of course. >>Yeah, Melissa, you talk about things like ai and Ed and innovation, and you just brought up autonomous vehicles. So, you know, not only is a cool area, but really highlights uh, you know, a lot of these waves coming together. You announced up onstage. Really cool looking company. Electro bit. I noticed there, Green almost matched. Your companies do So. Tell us about this. This is a partnership. Why? It's important. And you know what? What others can learn about it. >>Yeah, sure. So Electra bit. We just partnered with that. Made the announcement today in the keynote there, the leading Internet global international provider of embedded software solutions for automotive. So it's a whole new area for US safety certified Linux is the first for Susan in this industry. I recently met virtually with Alexander coaching the CEO Electra bit to learn more about his company innovation, that we're gonna drive together. We've got a whole session at Susan Con Digital in the platform to talk about what we're doing with safety certified Lennox and what we're doing with Elektra bit. I can't wait to tell you more about, and I've got a 1 to 1 fireside chat with Alex, and I think you're gonna love to learn more about, you know, maybe something else. Wei mentioned in the keynote they may want to know about. And that's the artificial intelligence solution that I specifically talked about launching next quarter. This is I'm super excited about as well. I mean, it's really easy to be excited here, Susan, when you have constant rolling innovation in our community and delivering that to our customers. But this is also an exciting space. The solution that we're launching next quarter is going to benefit both data scientists and I t operations teams by simplifying the integration of key AI building blocks that are going to be required to develop quickly test and then deploy the next generation of intelligence solutions. So keep your eyes open for that to we're gonna have some game changing solutions for Susan and all of our customer promise ai solution next quarter. So two big announcements for us here exclusively. It's music on digital. I can't wait to share all the details Next order with AI, but also with Alex in the fireside chat I had with him during the week. >>Alright, So great, Melissa, A couple of big announcements that you talked about give >>us a >>little bit of a look forward. So, you know, you talked about what? One year of it, and it means what should people be looking at? What goals do you have for the community and the company actually look through the rest of 2020 >>as we look to the rest of 2020. I think, um, it's been a hard year already, and I couldn't have predicted when I took over a CEO of this great company nearly 10 months ago that we'd be having the hard times that we currently have. I can honestly say that there's no place I'd rather be. The fact that we are in the best company in the best industry, with open source at our roots at our heart that will never change but you can expect from us is consistent and constant innovation. You could look for us to be nimble, dependable. You can look for us for growth and there ever were a recession proof company that delivers the best solutions to our customers. I think Susie's in fact, I know it is. We're going to double in size and three years, so we're going to go from just under 1/2 a 1,000,000,000 to a 1,000,000,000 in revenue and what in three years time and we've got the constant trajectory and the means of which to do it. We're really looking from a strategic perspective. The rest of this year. How can we simplify, modernize, accelerate the solutions delivered to our customers to ensure we constantly focus on innovative technologies, keeping open source of value's and ethos to our core? And then also consider how do we ensure a safe, stable quality environment that's building on tools such as optimizing and automating their environment to get the best out of their technology stack? And that's when you should expect to see from some of the rest of this year as we go obviously into 2021. You're gonna want to watch the space to stay tuned for the look at Susa. We're growing like a rocket ship, and we have still intention of going through the crisis and, of course, going into the back half of 2020. But we're accelerating with pace going into 2021. >>Alright, well, Melissa, I'm definitely looking forward to talking to some of your customers, some of your partners in some of your team. So thanks again for joining us, definitely looking forward to catching up with you further down the line. >>I look forward to it. Thank you so much for the time today, and obviously the focus on, Susan. We're super excited to share where we're going, where we've come from and what the journey looks like Ahead. So thanks for the excitement that you're sharing with us throughout this week. Really appreciate you. Thank you. >>Alright. And be sure to stay with us. We've got wall to wall coverage Susic on digital money. Even if we're not at a physical event, we get to do them all remotely digitally. That global digital experience. I'm stew Minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante with theCUBE, and welcome to this special CUBE conversation. I've been running a CEO series for the last several weeks, talking to leaders about how they're dealing with the COVID-19 crisis and really, trying to understand how they've been navigating through and communicating to their employees, and their customers. I'm really excited to have Melissa Di Donato here, she's the CEO of SUSE. Melissa, great to see you again. >> Great to see you, thank you for having me. >> You're very welcome, and you and I met last September and one of the reasons I've been looking forward to this interview, I'm a fanboy. I threw the kitchen sink at you last year, and you batted everything out of the park. We were talking about digital transformation, digital business, and you were really one of my favorite guests of the year. So, >> Thank you. >> Talk about kitchen sink. This COVID-19 thing came out of nowhere, when did you see it coming? And what was your first move as a leader? >> Well, so for us, we had a really unique position, Dave, because we have a number of people staying in China, so we've got more than 250 employees sitting in China, so for us COVID-19 is not new, we've been dealing with this for quite a long time, since December when first started becoming ill in China, realizing that there was an issue. As of the seventh of January we had to move very quickly when China went onto lockdown, we had to find a way to get our employees to be able to work from home very quickly, and taking a couple of hundred of employees that are sitting in China and being able to empower them and enable them to work from home very quickly, nearly overnight, was no short task, so we took all of that learning back in January, and then we were able to respond as the countries fell ill, and the government requirements went in place around the world since then. So for us, this is nothing new, we were really fortunate that we had the mechanisms in place to handle the pandemic first in China, now as it came across Europe, and then of course into the US. >> Yeah so, you had the canary in the coalmine, so to speak, Well before >> Kind of, something like that >> Yeah, well before you had to start making decisions about SUSECon in Dublin, which was scheduled to be in March, so that was your other big decision point, wasn't it? >> Yeah, it was really difficult for us, because obviously, we had customers, we had partners, all wanted to come to Dublin, in fact, we were scheduled to be there together as well, and we had to give them enough time to be able to make alternate arrangements, but at the same time, we had to wait to see what the government was going to do in Ireland, because obviously that has a very big impact on the structure, the cost, et cetera. But we made a early decision, as early as we could, and that was the beginning part of March, to make the decision to unfortunately move it to a digital event, which was not an easy solution. The first time in our history, bringing a big, annual conference that's physical and in person, to a virtual event that's in digital, it wasn't an easy over-the-night kind of process and decision to make, so it was a hard one, but we're really confident, and May 20th is the announcment and the start of our SUSECon digital event, so not too long away from where we are now. >> Melissa, how have you altered, enhanced, your communications to your employees, your team, and ultimately your customers and partners? Have you increased the cadence? How have you altered? >> Yeah, so much so. I do a video with my team that I announce and push out every Monday, so every Monday I give them a business update, I tell them what's happening in the industry, what's happening with SUSE, what's happening with our customers. That happens every week, once a week. That's for every employee, and its a video call, something like this, almost. Then what we do is weekly updates on the great things that are happening around SUSE. You know, we've got a lot of amazing employees here in the open source community, but also employees as well. We've had employees in Italy who created virtual classrooms for their employees, we had an employee in the US who dedicated 30% of his bonus to give back to his local school, he's bought lunches for all the people at his hospital locally, we've had our entire Nuremberg, Germany office give all of their lunch vouchers to the homeless in Germany, so we also like to publicize all the good work that all of our employees are doing, to give back to their local communities and globally, so the cadence has definitely been increased. We just ran a survey this last week that closed yesterday. We got very, very favorable results. And that was definitely geared towards communication, no more so than now, do the employees and the customers need to be aware of what's going on. You probably feel the same thing, and through me and probably loads of other interviews, know that we're not a magician, we're not a scientist here that could predict necessarily the future. I think the scientists themselves don't even know what's going to happen, but we're doing our best to take outlook, and take a lot of concerted approach to educate our employees and our customers with what they can expect. Now for us, I'm in the very fortunate position that before COVID-19, 38% of our employees work remotely, so working from home for us is quite easy, it's quite natural for our community and our open source community as well as a whole. So for us to make that transition, we were uninterrupted in way of dealing with our customers. I've been communicating with them as well, through emails and phone calls and other means, pretty much at least once a month, if not every other week or so, to communicate what we're doing for them, but again, you said it, being proactive and being communicative right now, it's never been more important. >> So you, it sounds like, are maintaining productivity. A lot of organizations are actually seeing a productivity hit, and they're having trouble getting work-from-home infrastructure up and spun a bit. People joke on Twitter that's the new tissue paper, you can't, I don't know what it's like in London, but you can't get toilet paper (laughs) on the shelves here, so work from home infrastructure, laptops, VDI, et cetera, But it sounds like you really haven't taken a productivity hit, it's sort of a natural progression for you. >> Yeah, you know when we met last September, we talked about the importance of open source, and we've been a business for nearly 30 years, and we've always run our business in open source community, and that is a community that's obviously geographically dispersed all over the world, so people have been working from home, working in their community, being transparent and collaborative, regardless of where they sit, so from an innovation perspective, we've had no impact to our business, so being able to work from anywhere, across any boundary, has been been uninterrupted, so that's been great. 99% of our workforce are now working remotely from home, versus up from 38% pre-COVID, it doesn't change the fact that things like hardware and software and the means that they need to actually operate from home is difficult, so we've made the concerted effort, for example, to make sure our employees in Germany have the capability to bring home their desk chairs, to bring home their monitors, to bring home their machines to set them up with the ability to be able to work from home. Building on the experience from China, we learned we needed to provision early, so what we did in the beginning part of February was to begin to procure software and hardware that enabled us to have a bench of technology that we could utilize, in case we had this pandemic run wild to support our employees to work from home, so I'm very happy to say we were well prepared. In our survey, we asked the question how prepared are you to be able to work from home? And it was extremely high, best practice in way of benchmarking for any employee survey, to be able to provide them the productivity tools necessary to be able to work from home, so we're very, very proud of that. >> I want to ask you about the recovery, nobody knows, we've never seen this >> No >> Forced shut down of the economy before. Saw Bill Gates this morning on TV, saying he thinks it's really through June that we're going to have to live with this, I know the president of the United States is saying we'd like to happen before that, but assuming there is a comeback, lets say June, start to bring back the economy in waves, how do you see open source in a downturn, some prolonged downturn, months, maybe as much as a year or even more, how do you see open source playing there? >> Yeah, that's a good question, I'm glad you asked it. I think that as the pandemic continues, and any crisis for that matter, open source adoption is going to accelerate, there's no doubt. There's a huge pressure we're all going to face, even those successful businesses like us here at SUSE, we're going to have to go under some crunch and consideration around cost. Open source adoption will accelerate digital transformation efforts, and will definitely speed up organizations to respond to the crisis, because they're able to utilize all the technology innovation, and standardization of Linux and other open source technologies, from anywhere. Whether it's on-premise, the cloud, utilizing Edge, they're going to look for innovations in constant uptick whilst gaining cost-saving at the same time. There's no better place to achieve that, besides being in an open source community, so we're very fortunate, I never would've predicted a pandemic, if I had I'd be a multi-millionaire, would've played the lotto by now, nonetheless, I think there's no place I'd rather be for sure, and I wouldn't want to run any other company besides an open source business right now, because we're seeing an uptick rather than having a decline. >> You know, I want to ask you about culture, because you've been in SUSE as the CEO less than a year, inside of a year, and you really have always focused on culture, you know, CEOs obviously got to worry about growth, you got to worry about profitability, productivity and the like, but I want to actually pull up something that I found on LinkedIn, it was from one of your newer employees, new to SUSE, he said "my first month here, amazing colleagues, high amount of trust, lots of collaboration, willing to help each other succeed, giving back to the less fortunate in the community, high amount of respect for diversity, amazing values, leadership is open, honest, trend-setting, industry defining, really smart, and genuinely superior." Wow, I mean >> (Melissa laughs) >> He said, "in short, best organization I've ever contributed my efforts to and been a part of." Your leadership, whether it's diversity, openness, transparency, you really have set from day one a cultural foundation, which I think is playing out well for you right now, but I wonder if you could talk about the culture that you're trying to drive with SUSE. >> Yeah I mean, wow I did read that post, and that's life -changing I think for leaders like myself, when you have employees that feel the sense of urgency around the criticality that they play, and the role they play in the company, you can't ask for more than that, really genuinely, and I think that when I came, I took it personal to make sure that we led the company leading with people first. We're probably one of the very few companies in the world that have one trademark, and our trademark is our SUSE Chameleon. We don't have any other trademarks or patents on any of our technology, because it is open. So the only thing I have is the people. The link to the world, and this business being successful, is our people, and there inevitably lies the importance that's pertaining to their culture. And I think that because we're community-based and open source, it's really important that we continually collaborate, that we're constantly giving back and giving insight and giving support in the community, and that needs to transcend the community and be living every single day in our company. You mentioned something in that post, which is the philanthropic side of who I am, I believe very whole-heartedly in the responsibility we carry as CEOs, executives, as companies, to give back to our community. When I started nearly year ago, I instituted the Month of Giving, which happens to be May, in conjunction with one day off every year for every single employee to give back to their local communities, or a charity of their choice. Now that's proven very well, particularly now. Folks are taking time off, they're donating their time to local hospitals, they're creating that sense of community giving and care that again, bleeds itself into the fabric of what this culture is. On top of that, recently you may have read the press, I'm sure you have, about us giving any medical device supplier, or any medical device, and not just manufacturer, but institution for research of COVID-19, we're giving them free software and support to run and develop technologies associated with solving this pandemic. And that is truly a gift, I feel incredibly privileged to be able to give back because you again well know we supply all the operating systems to many of our really important medical devices, like CAT scan machines and mammogram machines, in fact, probably most of the machines being used in the US today to combat many diseases are running on a SUSE operating system. We want to offer that back, again, to the community. The employees went wild over the fact that we were being able to give back on a big scale, to solve a problem like this, so I think when it comes down to who we are and what our culture is Dave, people are the most important thing to me. I did an interview recently, and they said you know, going from a CEO that's very focused on sales and like you said earlier, very focused on outcome and deliverables and forecasts and budgets and EBITDA, is that still the case? And I have to say confidently, no that's not the thing that keeps me up at night now. What keeps me up at night now, and how I wake up every morning is wondering about the health of my employees. We had a couple of employees, one that was quite ill in Italy, we were phoning him and calling and emailing him from his hospital bed, and that's what's really keeping me going, what's inspiring me to lead this incredible company, is the people and the culture that they've built that I'm honoring and taking forward, as part of the open source value system. >> Well I think those metrics, those business performance metrics, what I've learned is they're actually a symptom of a great culture, and so I'm really excited and amazed at what you're building there, and thank you. You know, in this day and age you hear, at least prior to COVID, you heard a lot of attacks on technology companies and big tech, on billionaires, and it's really refreshing to see technology companies stepping up, you mentioned the example of medical device, there are many, many examples, and so thank you for that, really appreciate it. >> Thank you too. >> Dave: All right Melissa, great having you, I hope we can talk again leading up to SUSECon virtual slash digital, thanks so much >> (Melissa laughs) >> For coming on theCUBE, great to see you again. >> It's been great to >> Stay safe. >> Thank you very much for having me again as well and inviting me back, I look forward to seeing you next month. >> All right ditto, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Splunk .Conf19. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome to theCUBE everybody, we're here in Las Vegas for Splunk's .Conf, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, here with Lisa Martin for the next three days. Lisa will be here tomorrow and the next day. I'm going to be carrying it solo, this is our seventh year .Conf, Splunk's conference celebrating their 10th year. Our first guest is Melissa Zicopula, vice president of managed services of Herjavec Group. Robert's been on before, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> I always get that, Herjavec? >> Herjavec Group. >> Herjavec Group. >> Happy to be here. >> Well known for the Shark Tank, but what's really interesting about Robert and your company is that we had multiple conversations and the Shark Tanks is what he's known for in the celebrity world. >> Melissa: Yes. >> But he's a nerd, he's a geek, he's one of us! (laughing) >> He's absolutely a cyber-security expert in the field, yes. >> So tell us what's going on this year at .Conf obviously security continues to be focus you guys have a booth here, what's the message you guys are sharing, what's the story from your standpoint? >> Yeah, so we do, Herjavec we're focusing on managed security services, where information security is all we do, focusing on 24/7 threat detection, security operations and also threat management. So, we want to be able to demo a lot of our capabilities, we're powered by Splunk, our HG analytics platform uses, heavily uses Splunk on the back end. So we want to be able to showcase for our customers, our clients, our prospects different types of use cases, different types of ways to detect malicious activity, while leveraging the tool itself. >> And data we're been covering since 2013, Splunk's .Conf, it's always been a data problem, but the data problem gets bigger and bigger, there's more volume than ever before which shifts the terms to the adversaries because ransomware is at an all time high. >> Melissa: Sure. >> Data is where the value is, but that's also where the attack vectors are coming from. This isn't going away. >> Absolutely, yeah, we want to focus on not just what type of data you're ingesting into your instance but to also understand what types of log sources you're feeding into your sim today. So we have experts actually focus on evaluating the type of log sources we're bringing in. Everything from IPS, to AV, to firewall you know, solutions into the sim so that way we can build use cases those, to be able to detect different types of activity. We leverage different types of methodologies, one of them is Mitre framework, CIS top 20. And being able to couple those two together it's able to give you a better detection mechanism in place. >> I want to some kind of, clarification questions because we talked to a lot of CSOs and CIOs and and CXOs in general. >> Melissa: Sure. >> The roles are changing, but the acronyms of the providers out in the market place are specializing, some have unique focuses, some have breadth, some have depth, you guys are an MSSPP. So, MSSPP, not to be confused with an MSP. Or ISV, there's different acronyms, what is the difference between an MSSPP versus an MSP? >> Melissa: Correct, so it's, we are a MSSP, which is a Managed Security Service Provider. And what we do is just, we're focused on we're very security-centric. So information, security is all we do everything from threat detection, we even have a consulting advisory role where we're actually doing penetration exams. We're PCI compliant, obviously SOC operations are the bread and butter of our service. Whereas, other MSPs, Managed Services Providers, they can do anything from architecture, network operations in that purview. So, we're focused on more of SIM solutions, endpoint, being able to manage any of your security technologies. And also, monitor them to take a fact into the SOC. >> So you guys are very focused? >> Melissa: Very focused on security. >> Then what's the key decision point for a customer to go with you guys, and what's the supplier relationship to the buyer because they're buying everything these days! >> Melissa: Sure. >> But they want to try and get it narrowed down so the right people are in the right place. >> Melissa: Yeah, so one of the great things about Herjavec Group is we are, you know, we're vendor agnostic, we have tons of experts in, you know, expertise resources that monitor, manage different types of technologies. Whether it's Splunk and other technologies out there, we have a team of people, that are very, very, you know, centric to actually monitor and manage them. >> How big is Splunk, in relative with your services? How involved are they with the scope? >> Melissa: Over 60% of our managed clients today, utilize Splunk, they're heavy Splunk users, they also utilize Splunk ES, Splunk Core, and from a management side, they're implementing them into their service. All of the CSOs and CROs or CIOs are leveraging and using it, not just for monitoring and security but they're also using it in development environments, as well as their network operations. >> So, one of the things I've been, I won't say preaching, because I do tend to preach a lot, but I've been saying and amplifying, is that tools that have come a long in the business and there's platforms and Splunk has always kind of been that, a platform provider, but also a good tool for folks. But, they've been enabling value, you guys have built an app on Splunk, the proprietary solutions. >> Absolutely. >> Could you tell me about that because this is really where the value starts to shift, where domain expertise focused practices and services, like you guys are doing, are building on someone else's platform with data, talk about your proprietary app. >> Absolutely, so we discovered, a few years ago, was that customers needed help getting to the data faster. So we were able to build in built-in queries, you know literally one click, say if you wanted to get to a statistical side of how many data sources are logging your SIM, is the data, you know, modeling complete, you know, is there anything missing in the environment or are there any gaps that we need to fill? You're able to do it by just clicking on a couple of different, you know, buttons within the tool itself. It gives you a holistic view of not just the alerts that are firing in your environment but all the data log sources that are coming into your SIM instance. It's a one stop shop. And also, what's great about it, is that it also powers Splunk ES, so Splunk ES also has similar tools and they are, literally, I mean that tool is so great you can go in, you can look at all the alerts, you can do an audit trail, you can actually do drill-down analysis, you can actually see the type of data like PCAP analysis, to get to the, you know, the type of activity you want to get to on a granular level. So, both tools do it really well. >> So you have hooks into ES, Splunk ES? >> Yes, we can actually see, depending on the instance that it's deployed on, 'cause our app is deployed on top of Splunk for every customer's instance. They're ale to leverage and correlate the two together. >> What are some of the trends in the marketplace that you're seeing with your customers? Obviously, again, volumes are increasing, the surface area of attacks is coming in it's more than log files now, it's, you got traces, you got other metrics >> Melissa: Sure. >> Other things to measure, it's almost It's almost too many alerts, what do you-- >> Yeah, a lot of KPI's. The most important thing that any company, any entity wants to measure is the MTTD, the Mean Time To Detection, and also mean time to resolve, right? You want to be able to ensure that your teams are have everything at their fingertips to get to the answer fast. And even if there's an attack or some type of breach in their environment, to at least detect it and understand where it is so they can quarantine it from spreading. >> What's the biggest surprise that you've seen in the past two years? I mean, 'cause I look back at our interviews with you guys in 2013, no 2015. I mean, the narrative really hasn't changed global security, I mean, all the core, top line stories are there, but it just seems to be bigger. What's the big surprise for you in terms of the marketplace? >> The big surprise for me is that companies are now focusing more on cyber-hygiene. Really ensuring that their infrastructure is you know, up to par, right? Because you can apply the best tools in-house but if you're not cleaning up you know, your backyard (laughing) it's going to get tough. So now we have a lot of entities really focusing and using tools like Splunk you know, to actually analyze what's happening in their environment, to clean up their back of house, I would say and to put those tools in place so they could be effective. >> You know, that's a classic story clean up your own house before you can go clean up others, right? >> Right. >> And what a trend we've been seeing in the marketplace on theCUBE and talking to a lot of practitioners is, and channel partners and suppliers is that, they tend to serve their customers, but they don't clean up their own house and data's moving around so now with the diversity of data, they've got the fabric search, they got all kind of new tools within Splunk's portfolio. >> It's a challenge, and it could be you know, lack of resources, it just means that we have you know, they don't have the right expertise in-house so they used managed security providers to help them get there. For example, if a network, if we identify the network being flat, we can identify you know, how to help them how to be able to kind of, look at the actual security landscape and what we need to do to have good visibility in their environment from places they didn't know existed. >> What's the one, one or two things that you see customers that need to do that, they aren't doing yet? You mentioned hygiene is a trend, what are some other things that that need to be addressed, that are almost, well that could be critical and bad, but are super important and valuable? >> I think now a lot of, actually to be quite honest a lot of our clients today or anyone who's building programs, security programs are getting you know, very mature. They're adopting methodologies, like Mitre Framework, CIS Top 20, and they're actually deploying and they're actually using specific use cases to identify the attacks happening in their environment. Not just from a security-centric standpoint but also from an operations side you know, you could identify misconfigurations in your environment, you can identify things that are you know, just cleaning up the environment as well. >> So, Splunk has this thing called SOAR, Security-- >> Automation. >> Orchestration Automation Recovery, resilience whatever R, I think R stands for that. How does that fit in to your market, your app and what you guys are doing? >> So it definitely fits in basically, being able to automate the redundant, mundane types of tasks that anyone can do, right? So if you think about it, if you have a security operations center with five or 10 analysts, it might take one analyst to do a task, it might take them two or three hours, where you can leverage a tool like Phantom, any type of SOAR platform to actually create a playbook to do that task within 30 seconds. So, not only are you minimizing the amount of you know, head count to do that, you're also you know, using your consistent tool to make that function make that function you know, more, I want to say enhanced. So you can build play books around it, you can basically use that on a daily basis whether it's for security monitoring or network operations, reporting, all that becomes more streamlined. >> And the impact to the organization is those mundane tasks can be demotivating. Or, there's a lot more problems to solve so for productivity, creativity, can you give some examples of where you've seen that shift into the personnel, HR side the human resource side of it? >> Yeah, absolutely so you know, you want to be able to have something consistent in your environment, right? So you don't want others to get kind of, get bored or you know, when you're looking at a platform day in and day out and you're doing the same task everyday, you might miss something. Whereas, if you build an automation tool that takes care of the low hanging fruit, so to speak, you're able to use a human component to put your muscles somewhere else, to find some you know, the human element to actually look for any types of malicious anomalies in the environment. >> How much has teamwork become a big part of how successful companies manage a security threat landscape? >> Very, very important. I mean, you're talking about leveraging different teams on the engineering side, on the operations side, even you know, coupling that with business stakeholders. You absolutely need to get the business involved so they have an understanding of what's critical to their environment, what's critical to their business, and making sure that we're taking security, obviously seriously, which a lot of companies know already, but not impeding on the operation. So doing it safely without having to minimize impact. >> Well let's just, I got to ask you this question around kind of, doing the cutting edge but not getting bled out, bleeding edge, bleeding out and failing. Companies are trying to balance you know, being cutting edge and balancing hardcore security Signal FX is a company that Splunk bought, we've been following them from the beginning. Strong tracing, great in that cloud native environment. So cloud native with micro services is super hot in areas you know, people see with Kubernetes and so on happening, kind of cutting edge though! >> Melissa: Right. >> You don't want to be bleeding edge 'cause there's some risks there too so, how do you guys advise your clients to think about cloud native with Splunk and some of the things that they're there but as the expression goes "there's a pony in there somewhere" but it's risky still, but certainly it's got a lot of promise. >> Yeah, you know, it's all about you know, everyone's different, every environment's different. It's really about explaining those options to them what they have available, whether they go on the cloud, whether they stay on-prem, explaining them from a cost perspective, how they can implement that solution, and what the risks are involved if they had and how long that will take for them to implement it in their environment. >> Do you see a lot of clients kicking the tires in cloud native? >> A lot of customers are migrating to cloud. One, because they don't have to keep it in a data warehouse, they don't have to have somebody manage it, they don't have to worry about hardware or licenses, renewals, all that. So, it's really easy to spin up a you know, a cloud instance where they can just keep a copy of it somewhere and then configure it and manage it and monitor it. >> Melissa, great insight, and love to have you on theCUBE, I got to ask you one final question >> Melissa: Sure. >> As a, on a personal note well, personal being you're in the industry you know, I hear a lot of patterns out there, see a lot of conversations on theCUBE. One consistent theme is the word scale. Cloud brings scale to the table, data scaling, so data at scale, cloud at scale, is becoming a reality for customers, and they got to deal with it. And this also impacts the security piece of it. What are some of the things that you guys and customers are doing to kind of one, take advantage of that wave but not get buried into it? >> Absolutely, so you just want to incorporate into the management life cycle, you know you don't want to just configure then it's one and done, it's over. You want to be able to continually monitor what's happening quarter over quarter you know, making sure that you're doing some asset inventory, you're managing your log sources, you have a full team that's monitoring, keeping up with the processes and procedures, and making sure that you know, you're also partnering with a company that can can follow you you know, year over year and build that road map to actually see what you're building your program, you know. >> So here's the personal question now, so, you're on this wave, security wave. >> Melissa: Sure. >> It's pretty exciting, can be intoxicating but at the same time, it's pretty dynamic. What are you excited about these days in the industry? What's really cool that you're getting jazzed about? What's exciting you in the industry these days? >> Automation, absolutely. Automation, being able to build as many playbooks and coupling that with different types of technologies, and you know, like Splunk, right? You can ingest and you can actually, automate your tier one and maybe even a half of a tier two, right, a level two. And that to me is exciting because a lot of what we're seeing in the industry now is automating as much as possible. >> And compare that to like, five years ago in terms of-- >> Oh absolutely, you know, SOAR wasn't a big thing five years ago, right? So, you had to literally sit there and train individuals to do a certain task, their certain function. And then you had to rely on them to be consistent across the board where now, automation is just taken that to the next level. >> Yeah it's super exciting, I agree with you. I think automation, I think machine learning and AI data feeds, machine learning. >> Michelle: Right. >> Machine learning is AI, AI is business value. >> Being able to get to the data faster, right? >> Awesome, speed, productivity, creativity, scale. This is the new formula inside the security practice I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. More live coverage here for the 10th anniversary of Splunk .Conf, our seventh year covering Splunk from a start-up, to going public, to now. One of the leaders in the industry. I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCube. Covering IFS World Conference 2019. Brought to you by IFS. >> Welcome back to Boston everybody you're watching theCube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day one of the IFS World Conference. I'm Dave Vallante with my co-host Paul Gillen. Melissa Di Donato is here, she's the CEO of SUSE and Jon Roskill is the CEO of Acumatica. Folks, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you so much. >> So you guys had the power panel today? Talking about digital transformation. I got a question for all of you. What's the difference between a business and a digital business? Melissa, I'll give you first crack. >> Before a regular old business and a digital business? Everyone's digital these days, aren't they? I was interviewing the, one of the leaders in Expedia and I said, "Are you a travel company "or are you a digital company? "Like where do you lead with?" And she said to me, "No no, we're a travel company "but we use digital." So it seems like the more and more we think about what the future means how we service our customers, customers being at the core everyone's a digital business. The way you service, the way you communicate the way you support. So whether you're a business or none you're always got to be a digital business. >> You better be a digital business and so-- >> I'm going to take a slightly different tact on that which is, we talk about digital and analog businesses and analog businesses are ones that are data silos they have a lot of systems, so they think they're digital but they're disconnected. And, you know, part of a transformation is connecting all the systems together and getting them to work like one. >> But I think the confict other common thread is data, right? A digital business maybe puts data at the core and that's how they get competitive advantage but, I want to ask you guys about your respective businesses. So SUSE, obviously you compete with the big whale RedHat, you know, the big news last year IBM $34 billion. How did that or will that in your view affect your business? >> It's already affecting our business. We've seen a big big uptake in interest in SUSE and what we're doing. You know, they say that a big part of the install based customers that RedHat and IBM currently have are unhappy about the decision to be acquired by IBM. Whether they're in conflict because we're a very big heavily channel business, right? So a lot of the channel partners are not quite happy about having one of their closest competitors now be, you know, part of the inner circle if you will. And other customers are just not happy. I mean, RedHat had fast innovation, fast pace and thought leadership and now all of a sudden they're going to be buried inside of a large conglomerate and they're not happy about that. So when we look at what's been happening for us particularly since March, we became an independent company now one of the world's largest independent open source company in the world. Since IBM has been taking over from RedHat. And, you know, big big uptake. Since March we became independent we've been getting a lot of questioning. "Where are we, where are we going, what are we doing?" And, " Hey, you know, I haven't heard about SUSE a while "what are you doing now?" So it's been really good news for us really, really good news. >> I mean, we're huge fans of RedHat. We do a lot of their events and-- >> Melissa: I'm a huge fan myself. >> But I tell you, I mean, we know from first hand IBM has this nasty habit of buying companies tripling the price. Now they say they're going to leave RedHat alone, we'll see. >> Yeah, like they said they'd leave Lotus alone and all the others. >> SPSS, you saw that, Ustream, you know one of our platforms. >> What's your view, how do you think it's going to go? >> I don't think it's about cloud I think it's about services and I think that's the piece that we don't really have great visibility on. Can IBM kind of jam OpenShift into its customers you know, businesses without them even really knowing it and that's the near-term cash flow play that they're trying to, you know, effect. >> Yeah, but it's not working for them, isn't though? Because when you look at the install base 90% of their business it's been Linux open source environment and OpenShift is a tag-along. I don't know if that's a real enabler for the future rather than, you know, an afterthought from the past. >> Well, for $34 billion it better be. >> I want to ask you about the cost of shifting because historically, you know if you were IBM, you were stuck with IBM forever. What is involved in customers moving from RedHat to SUSE presumably you're doing some of those migrations style. >> We are, we are doing them more and more in fact, we're even offering migration services ourself in some applications. It depends on the application layer. >> How simple is that? >> It depends on the application. So, we've got some telco companies is very very complex 24/7, you know, high pays, big fat enterprise applications around billing, for example. They're harder to move. >> A lot of custom code. >> A lot of custom code, really deep, really rich they need, you know, constant operation because it's billing, right? Big, fat transactions, those are a little bit more complex than say, the other applications are. Nonetheless, there is a migration path and in fact, we're one of the only open source companies in the world that provides support for not just SUSE, but actually for RedHat. So, if you're a RedHat, for or a well customer that want to get off an unsupported version of RedHat you can come over to SUSE. We'll not just support your RedHat system but actually come up with a migration plan to get you into a supported version of SUSE. >> If it's a package set of apps and you have to freeze the code it's actually not that bad-- >> It's not that bad, no. >> To migrate. All right, Jon I got to ask you, so help us understand Acumatica and IFS and the relationship you're like sister companies, you both the ERP providers. How do you work together or? >> Yeah, so we're both owned by a private equity firm called EQT. IFS is generally focused on $500 million and above company so more enterprise and we're focused on core mid-market. So say, $20 million to $500 million. And so very complementary in that way. IFS is largely direct selling we're a 100% through channels. IFS is stronger in Europe, we're stronger in North America and so they see these as very complementary assets and rather than to, perhaps what's going on with the IBM, RedHat discussion here. Slam these big things together and screw them up they're trying to actually keep us independent. So they put us in a holding company but we're trying to leverage much of each other's goodness as we can. >> Is there a migration path? I mean, for customers who reach the top end of your market can they smoothly get to IFS? >> Yeah, it's not going to be like a smooth you know, turn a switch and go. But it absolutely is a migration option for customers and we do have a set of customers that are outgrowing us you know, we have a number of customers now over a billion dollars running on Acumatica and you know, for a company, we've got one that we're actually talking to about this right now operating in 41 countries global, they need 24/7 support we're not the right company to be running their ERP system. >> On your panel today guys you were talking about, a lot about digital transformations kind of lessons learned. What are the big mistakes you see companies making and kind of what's your roadmap for success? >> I think doing too much too fast. Everyone talks about the digital innovation digital transformation. It's really a business transformation with digital being the underpinning the push forward that carries the business forward, right? And I think that we make too many mistakes with regards to doing too much, too fast, too soon, that's one. Doing and adopting technology for technology's sake. "Oh, it's ML, it's AI." And everyone loves these big buzz words, right? All the code words for what technology is? So they tend to bring it on but they don't really know the outcome. Really really important at SUSE were absolutely obsessed with our customers and during a digital transformation if you remain absolutely sick of anything about your customer at the core of every decision you make and everything you do. Particularly with regards to digital transformation you want to make sure that business outcome is focused on them. Having a clear roadmap with milestones along the journey is really important and ensuring it's really collaborative. We talked this morning about digital natives you know, we're all young, aren't we? Me in particular, but, you know I think the younger generation of digital natives think a little bit differently perhaps than we were originally thinking when we were their age. You know, I depend on that thinking I depend on that integration of that thought leadership infused into companies to help really reach customers in different ways. Our customers are buying differently our customers have different expectations they have different deliverables they require and they expect to be supported in different way. And those digital natives, that young talent can really aid in that delivery of good thought leadership for our businesses. >> So Jon, we're seeing IT spending at the macro slow down a little bit. You know, a lot of different factors going on it's not a disaster, it's not falling off the cliff but definitely pre-2018 levels and one of the theories is that you had this kind of spray-and-pray kind of like Melissa was say, deal was going too fast trying everything and now we're seeing more of a narrow focus on things that are going to give a return. Do you see that happening out there? >> Yeah, definitely some, I mean people are looking for returns even in what's been a really vibrant economy but, you know, I agree with Melissa's point there's a lot of ready, shoot, aim projects out there and, you know, the biggest thing I see is the ones that aren't, the fail that aren't the ones that aren't led by the leadership. They're sort of given off to some side team often the IT team and said, "Go lead digital transformation of the company." And digital transformation you know, Melissa said this morning it's business transformation. You've got to bring the business part of it to the table and you've got to think about, it's got to be led by the CEO or the entire senior leadership team has to be on board and if not, it's not going to be successful. >> So, pragmatism would say, okay, you get some quick hits get some wins and then you got kind of the, you know, Bezos, Michael Dell mindset go big or go home, so what's your philosophy? Moonshots or, you know, quick hits? >> I always think starting you know, you've got to understand your team's capabilities. So starting is something that you can get a gauge of that you know, particularly if you're new and you're walking into an organization, you know. Melissa, I don't know how long you've been in your role now? >> Melissa: 65 days. >> Right, so there you go. So it's probably a good person to ask what, you know, what you're finding out there but I think, you know, getting a gauge of what your resources are. I mean, one of the things you see around here is there are, you know, dozens of partner firms that are, or can be brought into, you know supplement the resources you have in your own team. So being thoughtful in that is part of the approach. And then having a roadmap for what you're trying to do. Like we talked this morning about a customer that Linda had been talking about. Have been working on for six or seven years, right? And you're saying, for an enterprise a very large enterprise company taking six or seven years to turn the battleship maybe isn't that long. >> Okay, so you got the sister company going on. Do you have a commercial relationship with IFS or you just here as kind of an outside speaker and a thought leader? >> I'm here as an outside speaker thought leader. There is talk that perhaps we can you know, work together in the future we're trying to work that out right now. >> I want to ask you about open source business models. We still see companies sort of struggling to come up with, not profitable but, you know, insanely profitable business models based on open source software. What do you see coming out of all this? Is there a model that you think is going to work in the long term? >> I think the future is open source for sure and this is coming from a person who spent 25 years in proprietary software having worked for the larger piece here in vendors. 100% of my life has been dedicated to proprietary software. So whilst that's true I came at SUSE and the open source environment in a very different way as a customer running my proprietary applications on open source Linux based systems. So I come with a little bit different of a, you know, of an approach I would say. The future's open source for sure the way that we collaborate, the innovation the borderless means of which we deliver you know, leadership within our business is much much different than proprietary software. You would think as well that, you know the wall that we hide behind an open source being able to access software anywhere in a community and be able to provide thought leadership masks and hides who the developers and engineers are and instead exacerbates the thought leadership that comes out of them. So it provides for a naturally inclusive and diverse environment which leads to really good business results. We all know the importance of diversity and inclusion. I think there is definitely a place for open source in the world it's a matter providing it in such a way that creates business value that does enable and foster that growth of the community because nothing is better than having two or three or four or five million developers hacking away at my software to deliver better business value to my customers. The commercial side is going to be around the support, right? The enterprise customers would want to know that when bump goes in the night I've got someone I can pay to support my systems. And that's really what SUSE is about protecting our install base. Ensuring that we get them live, all the time every day and keep them running frictionlessly across their IT department. >> Now there's another model, the so-called open core model that holds that, the future is actually proprietary on top of an open base. So are you saying that you don't think that's a good model? >> I don't know, jury's out. Next time that you come to our event which is going to be in March, in Dublin. We're doing our SUSECON conference. Leave that question for me and I'll have an answer for you. I'm pontificating. >> Well I did and-- >> It's a date. The 12th of March. >> It's certainly working for Amazon. I mean, you know, Amazon's criticized for bogarting open source but Redshift is built on open source I think Aurora is built on open source. They're obviously making a lot of money. Your open core model failed for cloud era. Hortonworks was pure, Hortonworks had a model like, you know, you guys and RedHat and that didn't work and now that was kind of profitless prosperity of Hadoop and maybe that was sort of an over head-- >> I think our model, the future's open-source no question. It's just what level of open source within the sack do we keep proprietary or not, it's the case maybe, right? Do we allow open source in the bottom or the top or do we put some proprietary components on top to preserve and protect like an umbrella the core of which is open source. I don't know, we're thinking about that right now. We're trynna think what our future looks like. What the model should look like in the future for the industry. How can we service our customers best. At the end of the day, it's satisfying customer needs and solving business problems. If that's going to be, pure open source or open source with a little bit of proprietary to service the customer best that's what we're all going to be after, aren't we? >> So, there's no question that the innovation model is open source. I mean, I don't think that's a debate, the hard part is. Okay, how do you make money? A bit of open source for you guys. I mean, are you using open source technologies presumable you are, everybody is but-- >> So we're very open API's, who joined three years ago. We joined openapi.org. And so we've been one of the the leading ERP companies in the industry on publishing open API's and then we do a lot of customization work with our community and all of that's going on in GitHub. And so it's all open source, it's all out there for people who want it. Not everybody wants to be messing around in the core of a transaction engine and that's where you get into you know, the sort of the core argument of, you know which pieces should be people modifying? Do you want people in the kernel? Maybe, maybe not. And, you know, this is not my area of expertise so I'll defer to Melissa. Having people would be able to extend things in an open source model. Having people be able to find a library of customizations and components that can extend Acumatica, that's obviously a good thing. >> I mean, I think you hit on it with developers. I mean, that to me is the key lever. I mean, if I were a VM where I'd hire you know, 1000, 2000 open source software developers and say, "Go build next-generation apps and tools "and give it away." And then I'd say, "Okay, Michael Dell make you a hardware "run better in our software." That's a business model, you can make a lot of money-- >> 100% and we're, you know, we're going to be very acquisitive right now, we're looking for our future, right? We're looking to make a mark right now and where do we go next? How can we help predict the outcome next step in the marketplace when it pertains to, you know, the core of applications and the delivery mechanism in which we want to offer. The ease of being able to get thousands of mainframe customers with complex enterprise applications. Let's say, for example to the cloud. And a part of that is going to be the developer network. I mean, that's a really really big important segment for us and we're looking at companies. Who can we acquire? What's the business outcome? And what the developer networks look like. >> So Cloud and Edge, here got to be two huge opportunities for you, right? Again, it's all about developers. I think that's the right strategy at the Edge. You see a lot of Edge activity where somebody trying to throw a box at the Edge with the top down, in a traditional IT model. It's really the devs up, where I think-- >> It is, it is the dev ups, you're exactly right. Exactly right. >> Yeah, I mean, Edge is fascinating. That's going to be amazing what happens in the next 10 years and we don't even know, but we ship a construction edition we've got a customer that we're working with that's instrumenting all of their construction machinery on something like a thousand construction sites and feeding the sensor data into a Acumatica and so it's a way to keep track of all the machines and what's going on with them. You know, obviously shipping logistics the opportunity to start putting things like, you know, RFID tags on everything an instrument to all of that, out at the Edge. And then the issue is you get this huge amount of data and how do you process that and get the intelligence out of it and make the right decisions. >> Well, how do you? When data is plentiful, insights, you know, aren't is-- >> Yeah, well I think that's where the machine learning breakthroughs are going to happen. I mean, we've built out a team in the last three years on machine learning, all the guys who've been talking about Amazon, Microsoft, Google are all putting out machine learning engines that companies can pick up and start building models around. So we're doing one's around, you know inventory, logistics, shipping. We just release one on expense reports. You know, that really is where the innovation is happening right now. >> Okay, so you're not an inventor of AI you're going to take those technologies apply 'em to your business. >> Yeah, we don't want to be the engine builder we want to be the guys that are building the models and putting the insight for the industry on top that's our job. >> All right Melissa, we'll give you the final word and IFS World 2019, I think, is this your first one? >> It's my first one, yeah-- >> We say bumper sticker say when your truck's are pulling away or-- (laughs) >> A bumper sticker would say, "When you think about the future of open source "think about SUSE." (laughing) >> Dave: I love it. >> I'd say in the event, I mean, I'm super-impressed I think it's the group that's here is great the customers are really enthused and you know, I have zero bias so I'm just giving you my perspective. >> Yeah, I mean the ecosystem is robust here, I have to say. I think they said 400 partners and I was pleasantly surprised when I was walking around last-- >> This is your second one, isn't it? >> It's theCubes second one, my first. >> Oh your first, all right, well done. And so what do you think? Coming back? >> I would love to come back. Especially overseas, I know you guys do a bunch of stuff over seas. >> There you go, he wants to travel. >> Dublin in March? >> March the 12th. >> Dublin is a good place for sure so you're doing at the big conference? >> Yep, the big conference center and it's-- >> That is a great venue. >> And not just because the green thing but it's actually because (laughs). >> No, that's a really nice venue, it's modern It's got, I think three or four floors. >> It does, yeah yeah, we're looking forward to it. >> And then evening events at the, you know, the Guinness Storehouse. >> There you go. >> Exactly right. So we'll look forward to hosting you there. >> All right, great, see you there. >> We'll come with our tough questions for you. (laughing) >> Thanks you guys, I really appreciate your time. >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you for watching but right back, right after this short break you're watching theCube from IFS World in Boston be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are high atop San Franciscso, in the Salesforce Tower in the brand new Accenture, the Innovation Hub. It opened up, I don't know, six months ago or so. We were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stair, so if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about cloud and the evolution of cloud, and hybrid cloud, and clearly, two players that are right in the middle of this, helping customers get through this journey, and do these migrations are Accenture and HPE. So we're excited to have our next guest, Melissa Besse. She is the Managing Director, Intelligent Cloud and Infrastructure Strategic Partnerships, at Accenture. Melissa, welcome. >> Thanks Jeff. >> And joining us from HP is David Stone. He is the VP of Ecosystem Sales. David great to see you. >> Great, thanks for having me. >> So, let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this new entrance, with AWS coming on the scene, one of the great lines that Jeff Bezos talks about, is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the bookseller, out on the left hand edge, was coming in to take their infrastructure business. But as things have moved to public cloud, now there's hybrid cloud, now all applications, or work loads, are right for public clouds, so now, all the Enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves but it's complicated. So, first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary, hybrid cloud versus Multi-Cloud. What do those terms mean to you and your customers? Let's start with you, Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of Multi-Cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of, I would say, a Multi-Cloud operating model, that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So, you have your public cloud providers, you have your SaaS, like Salesforce, work day, you have your PAS, right. And so when you think of Multi-Cloud, any customer is going to have a plethora, of all of these types of clouds. And really being able to manage across those, becomes critical. When you think of Hybrid-Cloud, Hybrid-Cloud is really thinking about the placement of Ous. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right. Are you going to in the public, or in the private space? And you kind of look at it from that perspective. And it really enables that data movement across both, of those clouds. >> So what do you see, David, in your customers? >> I see a lot of the customers, that we see today, are confused, right? The people who have gone to the Public Cloud, had scratched their heads and said, "Geez, what do I do?", "It's not as cheap as I thought it was going to be." So, the ones who are early adopters, are confused. The ones who haven't moved, yet, are really scratching their head as well, right. Because if you don't the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so, all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy. And, I think that's where the market, and I know Accenture and HPE, clearly see the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, you said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out. Where we more often here it talked about workload, this kind of horses for courses, you know. It's a workload specific, should be deployed in this particular, kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mention data, and there's a lot of conversation, kind of pre-cloud, about data gravity and how expensive it is to move the data, and the age old thing, do you move the compute to the data, or move the data to the compute? There's a lot of advantages, if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the real negatives, in terms of potential cost implications, and we didn't even get into regulations, and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay, in the data center. So, how should people start thinking about these variables, when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Accenture's position definitely, like when we started off on our Hybrid Cloud journey, was to capture the workload, right. And, once you have that workload, you could really balance the public benefits of speed, innovation, and consumption, with the private benefits of, actual regulation, data gravity, and performance, right. And so, our whole approach and big bet, has been to- Basically, we had really good leading public capabilities, cause we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to, migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we said okay, if we create a hybrid capability, that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, and that is standard, we'd be able to offer our customers a way to pick really, the right workload, in the right place, at the right price. And that was really what our whole goal was. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah, and so just to add on to what Melissa said, I think we also think about, at least, you know, keeping the data in a place that you want, but then being cloud adjacent, so getting in the right data centers, and we often use a cloud saying, to bring the cloud to the data. So, if you have the right hybrid strategy, you put the data where it makes the most sense. Where you want to maintain the security and privacy, but then have access to the APIs, and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages, of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we here a lot of the data center providers like, Equinix and stuff, talking about features, like direct connect and, you know, to have this proximity between the public cloud, and the stuff that's in your private cloud, so that you do have, you know, low latency, and you can, when you do have to move things, or you do need to access that data, it's not so far away. I'm curious about the impact of companies like, Salesforce in the Salesforce tower, here in San Francisco, at the center offices, and office 365, and Work Day, on how can the adoption of the SaaS applications, have changed the conversation about cloud, and what's important and not important, it used to be security, I don't trust anything outside my data center, and know I might argue that public clouds are more secure, in some ways that private cloud, you don't have disgruntled employees per se, running around the data centers unplugging things. So, how it the adoption of things like Office 365, clearly Microsoft's leveraged that in a big way, to grow their own cloud presence, change the conversation about what's good about cloud, what's not good about cloud, why should we move in this direction. David, you have a thought? >> No, look, I think it's a great question, and I think if you think about the, as Melissa said, the used cases, right. And, how Microsoft has successfully pivoted, their business to it as a service model, right. And so what I think it's done, it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the Salesforces of the world, have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a SaaS based offer, and so when you can do a Work Day, or Salesforce.com implementation, sure, it's been built, it's tested and everything else. I think what then becomes the bigger question, and the bigger challenge is, most companies are sitting on a thousand applications, that have been built over time. And what do you do with those, right? And so, in many cases you need to be connected, to those SaaS space providers, but you need the right hybrid strategy, again, to be able to figure out, how to connect those SaaS space services, to whatever you're going to do, with those thousand workloads. And those thousand workloads, running on different things, you need the right strategy, to figure out where to put the actual workloads. And, as people are trying to go, I know one of the questions that comes up is, do you migrate? Or do you modernize? >> David: And so, as people put that strategy together, I think how you tie to those SaaS space services, clearly ties into your hybrid strategy. >> I would agree, and so, as David mentioned, right. That's where the cloud adjacency, you're seeing a lot of blur, between public and private, I mean, Google's providing Bare-metal as a service. So it is actually dedicated, hybrid cloud capabilities, right. So you're seeing a lot of everyone, and as David talked about, all of the surrounding applications around your SAP, around your oracle. When we created our Exensor Hyper Cloud, we were going after the Enterprise workload. But there's a lot of legacy and other ones, that need that data, and or, the Salesforce data. Whatever the data is, right. And really be able to utilize it when they need to, in a real low latency. >> So, I was wondering I we could unpack, the Accenture Hybrid Cloud. >> Melissa: Sure. >> What is that? Is that your guys own cloud? Is this, you know, kind of the solution set? I've heard that mentioned a couple times. So what is the Accenture Hybrid Cloud? >> So Accenture Hybrid Cloud, was a big bet that we made, as we saw the convergence of MultiCloud. We really said, we know, everything is not going to go public. And in some cases, it's all coming back. And so, customers really needed a way, to look at all of their workloads, right. Because part of the issue with, the getting the cost and benefits out of public is, the workload goes but you really aren't able, to get out of the data center. We term it the "Wild Animal Park", because there's a lot of applications that, right, are you going to modernize, are you going to let them to end of life. So there's a lot of things you have to consider, to truly exit the data center strategy. And so, Accenture Hybrid Cloud is actually, a big bet we made, it is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability, that really augments all of the leading capability, we had in the cloud area. It is, it's differentiated, we made a big bet with HPE, it's differentiated on it's hardware. One of the reasons, when we were going after the Enterprise, was they need large compute, and large storage requirements. And what we're able to do is, when we created this, use some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client, that we had in the existing I-O-N environment, and we were actually able to achieve, some significant benefits, just from the automation. We got 50 percent in the provisioning of applications. We got 40 percent in the provisioning of the V.M. And we were able to take a lot of what I'll call, the manual tasks, and down to, it was like 62 percent reduction in the effort. As well as, 33 percent savings overall, in getting things production ready. So, this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning, at the application level, because we're going after the Enterprise workloads. And it will create these, it's an ASA that came from government, so it's highly secured, and it really was able to preserve, I think what our customer needed. And being able to span that public/private, capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know that there's enough talk, about the complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing, the CIS Admin piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about HPC, a lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with A.I. and machine learning now. Which, you know, most of those benefits are going to be, realized in a specific application, right? It's machine learning or artificial intelligence, applied to a specific application. So, again, you guys make big iron, and have been making big iron for a long time, what is this kind of hybrid cloud open up, in terms of, for HPE to have the big heavy metal, and still have kind of the agility and flexibility, of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about HPE's strategy has been, in this area of high performance compute. That we bought the company S.G.I. And as you have seen the announcements, we're hopefully going to close on the Cray acquisition as well. And so we in the world of the data continuing to expand, and at huge volumes. The need to have incredible horsepower to drive that, that's associated with it, now all of this really requires, where's your data being created, and where's it actually being consumed? And so, you need to have the right edge, to cloud strategy in everything. And so, in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge, to be able to compute and do stuff in real time. But in many cases you need to feed all that data, back into another cloud or some sort of mother. HPE, you know, type of high performance compute environment, that can actually run the more, advanced A.I. machine learning type of applications, to really get the insights and tune the algorithms. And then, push some of those APIs and applications, back to the edge. So, it's an area of huge investment, it's an area where because of the latency, you know, things like the autonomous driving, and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud, or you need cloud type capability, if you will, to be able to compute and make the right decisions, at the right time. So, it's about having the right compute technology, at the right place, at the right time, at the right cost, and the right perform. >> A lot of rights, good opportunity for Accenture. So, I mean it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud, and that kind of new, verbs around cloud-like things. Is where we're going to see the same thing, kind of the edge versus the data center comparison, in terms of where the data is, where the processing is, because it's going to be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out of the edge, cause, you know, there's no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that great, and maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, Edge offers a whole bunch of, different challenges that you can control for, in a data center but it is going to be this crazy, kind of hybrid world there too, in terms of where the allocation of those resources are. You guys get into the deeper end of that model, Melissa? >> Yeah, so we're definitely working with HPE, to create some of, I'll call it our edge managed services, again, going back to what we were saying about the data, right, we saw the centralization of data with the cloud, with the initial entrance into the cloud, now we're seeing the decentralization of that data, back out to the Edge. With that, right, in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need- They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil, and exploration, if you look at media processing, right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things, and depending on where it's located, if it's on the Edge, how you're going to feedback the data as we talked about. And so, we're looking at, how do you take this foundation, right, this, I'll call it Exensor Hybrid architecture, right. Take that, and play that intermediate role. I'm going to call it intermediary, right, because you really need a really good, you know, global data map, you need a good supply chain, right. Really to make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application, at the right time. With, right, the ability to do it at speed. And so, all of these things are factors, as you look at our whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud strategy, right. And being able to manage that, Edge to core and then back up to Cloud, etcetera. >> Right, now I wonder if you could share some stories, cause the value proposition around Cloud, is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right. But it's not about cost, it's not about cost savings, I mean there's a lot of that in there and that's good, but really the opportunity is about speed. Speed and innovation. And enabling more innovation across your Enterprise, with more people having more access to more data, to build more apps, and really, to react. Are people getting that? Or, are they still, the customer still kind of encumbered, by this kind of transition phase, they're still trying to sort it out, or do they get it? That really this opportunity is about speed, speed, speed. >> No, go ahead. I mean we use a phrase first off, it's, "fear no cloud", right. To your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy. But, I think within that you get, what's the right application? And how do you, you know, fit it in to the overall strategy, of what you're trying to do. >> Yeah. >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole, right, when you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, right, and applications, and how are you going to, some you're going to retain, some you're going to retire, some you're going to (stutters) refactor for the cloud, or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is, you're going to be looking at doing, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters, like even the hyperscalers, themselves, right. They recognize the speed, so you know, we're working with Google for instance. They wanted to get into the Bare-metal, as a service capability, right. Them actually building it, getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud architecture, that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub-millisecond latency, right. And so, they're the ones, right, everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and prebook capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well, is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers. Because it is, as we talked about in this multicloud world, lots of things that you have to manage, if you can get pieces from multiple, you know, from a partner, right, that can provide more of the services that you need, it really enables the management of those clouds sources. >> Right, so we're going to wrap it up, but I just want to give you the last word in terms of, what's the most consistent blind spot, that you see when you're first engaging with a customer, who's relatively early on this journey, that they miss, that you see over, and over, and over, and you're like, you know, these are some of the thing you really got to think about, that they haven't thought about. >> Yeah so, for me, I think it's- the cloud isn't about a destination, it's about an experience. And so, how do you get- you talked about the operations, but how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use this simple analogy, that if you and I needed a car, for five or 10, or 15 minutes, you go get an Uber. Cause it's easy, it's quick. If you need a car for a couple days, you do a rental car. You need a car for a year, you might do a lease. You need a car for three, four year, you probably by it, right? And so, if you use that analogy and think, Hmmm, I need a workload application for five/six years, putting something at a persistent workload, that you know about on a public cloud, may be the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibited. But, if you need something, that you can stand up in five minutes, and shut it right back down, the public cloud is absolutely, the right way to go, as long as you can deal with the security requirements, and stuff. And so, if you think about, what are the actual requirements, is it cost, is it performance, you've talked about speed and everything else. It's really trying to figure out how you get an experience, and the only experience that can really hit you, what you need to do today, is having the right hybrid strategy. And every company, I know Accenture was out, way in front of the market on public cloud, and now they've come to the realization, so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, it's going to be multicloud. And as long as you can have an experience, and a partner, that can manage, you know, help you define the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> Jeff: Melissa. >> I think blind spot we run into is, it does start off as a cost savings activity. And there really, it really is so much more about, how are you going to manage that enterprise workload? How are you going to worry about the data? Are you going to have access to it? Are you going to be able to make it fluid, right? The whole essence of cloud, right, what it disrupted was the thought, that something had to stay in one place, right. And, where the real time decisions were being made. Where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds, as well as, that you had to own it yourself, right. I mean, everyone always thought, okay, I'll take all the, you know, I.T. department, and very protective of everything that it wanted to keep. Now, it's about saying, all right, how do I utilize, the best of each of these multiclouds, to stand up, what I'll call, what their core capability is as a customer, right. Are they doing the next chip design? Are they, you know, doing financial market models, right? That requires a high performance capability, right. So, when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power, is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products, and services to market, and touching the customers I need. Versus, oh, I'm going to move this out to an infrastructure, because that's what cloud, it'll save me money, right. That's typically the downfall we see, because they're not looking at it from the workload, or the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator, and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff, (laughs) that's not your core. Alright, well Melissa, David, thanks for taking a minute, and I really enjoyed the conversation. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> She's Melissa, He's David, and I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. We are high above the San Francisco skyline, in the Salesforce tower at the Accenture Innovation Hub. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (tech music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are high atop San Franciscso, in the Salesforce Tower in the brand new Accenture, the Innovation Hub. It opened up, I don't know, six months ago or so. We were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stair, so if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about cloud and the evolution of cloud, and hybrid cloud, and clearly, two players that are right in the middle of this, helping customers get through this journey, and do these migrations are Accenture and HPE. So we're excited to have our next guest, Melissa Besse. She is the Managing Director, Intelligent Cloud and Infrastructure Strategic Partnerships, at Accenture. Melissa, welcome. >> Thanks Jeff. >> And joining us from HP is David Stone. He is the VP of Ecosystem Sales. David great to see you. >> Great, thanks for having me. >> So, let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this new entrance, with AWS coming on the scene, one of the great lines that Jeff Bezos talks about, is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the bookseller, out on the left hand edge, was coming in to take their infrastructure business. But as things have moved to public cloud, now there's hybrid cloud, now all applications, or work loads, are right for public clouds, so now, all the Enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves but it's complicated. So, first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary, hybrid cloud versus Multi-Cloud. What do those terms mean to you and your customers? Let's start with you, Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of Multi-Cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of, I would say, a Multi-Cloud operating model, that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So, you have your public cloud providers, you have your SaaS, like Salesforce, work day, you have your PAS, right. And so when you think of Multi-Cloud, any customer is going to have a plethora, of all of these types of clouds. And really being able to manage across those, becomes critical. When you think of Hybrid-Cloud, Hybrid-Cloud is really thinking about the placement of Ous. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right. Are you going to in the public, or in the private space? And you kind of look at it from that perspective. And it really enables that data movement across both, of those clouds. >> So what do you see, David, in your customers? >> I see a lot of the customers, that we see today, are confused, right? The people who have gone to the Public Cloud, had scratched their heads and said, "Geez, what do I do?", "It's not as cheap as I thought it was going to be." So, the ones who are early adopters, are confused. The ones who haven't moved, yet, are really scratching their head as well, right. Because if you don't the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so, all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy. And, I think that's where the market, and I know Accenture and HPE, clearly see the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, you said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out. Where we more often here it talked about workload, this kind of horses for courses, you know. It's a workload specific, should be deployed in this particular, kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mention data, and there's a lot of conversation, kind of pre-cloud, about data gravity and how expensive it is to move the data, and the age old thing, do you move the compute to the data, or move the data to the compute? There's a lot of advantages, if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the real negatives, in terms of potential cost implications, and we didn't even get into regulations, and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay, in the data center. So, how should people start thinking about these variables, when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Accenture's position definitely, like when we started off on our Hybrid Cloud journey, was to capture the workload, right. And, once you have that workload, you could really balance the public benefits of speed, innovation, and consumption, with the private benefits of, actual regulation, data gravity, and performance, right. And so, our whole approach and big bet, has been to- Basically, we had really good leading public capabilities, cause we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to, migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we said okay, if we create a hybrid capability, that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, and that is standard, we'd be able to offer our customers a way to pick really, the right workload, in the right place, at the right price. And that was really what our whole goal was. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah, and so just to add on to what Melissa said, I think we also think about, at least, you know, keeping the data in a place that you want, but then being cloud adjacent, so getting in the right data centers, and we often use a cloud saying, to bring the cloud to the data. So, if you have the right hybrid strategy, you put the data where it makes the most sense. Where you want to maintain the security and privacy, but then have access to the APIs, and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages, of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we here a lot of the data center providers like, Equinix and stuff, talking about features, like direct connect and, you know, to have this proximity between the public cloud, and the stuff that's in your private cloud, so that you do have, you know, low latency, and you can, when you do have to move things, or you do need to access that data, it's not so far away. I'm curious about the impact of companies like, Salesforce in the Salesforce tower, here in San Francisco, at the center offices, and office 365, and Work Day, on how can the adoption of the SaaS applications, have changed the conversation about cloud, and what's important and not important, it used to be security, I don't trust anything outside my data center, and know I might argue that public clouds are more secure, in some ways that private cloud, you don't have disgruntled employees per se, running around the data centers unplugging things. So, how it the adoption of things like Office 365, clearly Microsoft's leveraged that in a big way, to grow their own cloud presence, change the conversation about what's good about cloud, what's not good about cloud, why should we move in this direction. David, you have a thought? >> No, look, I think it's a great question, and I think if you think about the, as Melissa said, the used cases, right. And, how Microsoft has successfully pivoted, their business to it as a service model, right. And so what I think it's done, it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the Salesforces of the world, have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a SaaS based offer, and so when you can do a Work Day, or Salesforce.com implementation, sure, it's been built, it's tested and everything else. I think what then becomes the bigger question, and the bigger challenge is, most companies are sitting on a thousand applications, that have been built over time. And what do you do with those, right? And so, in many cases you need to be connected, to those SaaS space providers, but you need the right hybrid strategy, again, to be able to figure out, how to connect those SaaS space services, to whatever you're going to do, with those thousand workloads. And those thousand workloads, running on different things, you need the right strategy, to figure out where to put the actual workloads. And, as people are trying to go, I know one of the questions that comes up is, do you migrate? Or do you modernize? >> David: And so, as people put that strategy together, I think how you tie to those SaaS space services, clearly ties into your hybrid strategy. >> I would agree, and so, as David mentioned, right. That's where the cloud adjacency, you're seeing a lot of blur, between public and private, I mean, Google's providing Bare-metal as a service. So it is actually dedicated, hybrid cloud capabilities, right. So you're seeing a lot of everyone, and as David talked about, all of the surrounding applications around your SAP, around your oracle. When we created our Exensor Hyper Cloud, we were going after the Enterprise workload. But there's a lot of legacy and other ones, that need that data, and or, the Salesforce data. Whatever the data is, right. And really be able to utilize it when they need to, in a real low latency. >> So, I was wondering I we could unpack, the Accenture Hybrid Cloud. >> Melissa: Sure. >> What is that? Is that your guys own cloud? Is this, you know, kind of the solution set? I've heard that mentioned a couple times. So what is the Accenture Hybrid Cloud? >> So Accenture Hybrid Cloud, was a big bet that we made, as we saw the convergence of MultiCloud. We really said, we know, everything is not going to go public. And in some cases, it's all coming back. And so, customers really needed a way, to look at all of their workloads, right. Because part of the issue with, the getting the cost and benefits out of public is, the workload goes but you really aren't able, to get out of the data center. We term it the "Wild Animal Park", because there's a lot of applications that, right, are you going to modernize, are you going to let them to end of life. So there's a lot of things you have to consider, to truly exit the data center strategy. And so, Accenture Hybrid Cloud is actually, a big bet we made, it is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability, that really augments all of the leading capability, we had in the cloud area. It is, it's differentiated, we made a big bet with HPE, it's differentiated on it's hardware. One of the reasons, when we were going after the Enterprise, was they need large compute, and large storage requirements. And what we're able to do is, when we created this, use some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client, that we had in the existing I-O-N environment, and we were actually able to achieve, some significant benefits, just from the automation. We got 50 percent in the provisioning of applications. We got 40 percent in the provisioning of the V.M. And we were able to take a lot of what I'll call, the manual tasks, and down to, it was like 62 percent reduction in the effort. As well as, 33 percent savings overall, in getting things production ready. So, this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning, at the application level, because we're going after the Enterprise workloads. And it will create these, it's an ASA that came from government, so it's highly secured, and it really was able to preserve, I think what our customer needed. And being able to span that public/private, capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know that there's enough talk, about the complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing, the CIS Admin piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about HPC, a lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with A.I. and machine learning now. Which, you know, most of those benefits are going to be, realized in a specific application, right? It's machine learning or artificial intelligence, applied to a specific application. So, again, you guys make big iron, and have been making big iron for a long time, what is this kind of hybrid cloud open up, in terms of, for HPE to have the big heavy metal, and still have kind of the agility and flexibility, of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about HPE's strategy has been, in this area of high performance compute. That we bought the company S.G.I. And as you have seen the announcements, we're hopefully going to close on the Cray acquisition as well. And so we in the world of the data continuing to expand, and at huge volumes. The need to have incredible horsepower to drive that, that's associated with it, now all of this really requires, where's your data being created, and where's it actually being consumed? And so, you need to have the right edge, to cloud strategy in everything. And so, in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge, to be able to compute and do stuff in real time. But in many cases you need to feed all that data, back into another cloud or some sort of mother. HPE, you know, type of high performance compute environment, that can actually run the more, advanced A.I. machine learning type of applications, to really get the insights and tune the algorithms. And then, push some of those APIs and applications, back to the edge. So, it's an area of huge investment, it's an area where because of the latency, you know, things like the autonomous driving, and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud, or you need cloud type capability, if you will, to be able to compute and make the right decisions, at the right time. So, it's about having the right compute technology, at the right place, at the right time, at the right cost, and the right perform. >> A lot of rights, good opportunity for Accenture. So, I mean it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud, and that kind of new, verbs around cloud-like things. Is where we're going to see the same thing, kind of the edge versus the data center comparison, in terms of where the data is, where the processing is, because it's going to be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out of the edge, cause, you know, there's no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that great, and maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, Edge offers a whole bunch of, different challenges that you can control for, in a data center but it is going to be this crazy, kind of hybrid world there too, in terms of where the allocation of those resources are. You guys get into the deeper end of that model, Melissa? >> Yeah, so we're definitely working with HPE, to create some of, I'll call it our edge managed services, again, going back to what we were saying about the data, right, we saw the centralization of data with the cloud, with the initial entrance into the cloud, now we're seeing the decentralization of that data, back out to the Edge. With that, right, in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need- They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil, and exploration, if you look at media processing, right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things, and depending on where it's located, if it's on the Edge, how you're going to feedback the data as we talked about. And so, we're looking at, how do you take this foundation, right, this, I'll call it Exensor Hybrid architecture, right. Take that, and play that intermediate role. I'm going to call it intermediary, right, because you really need a really good, you know, global data map, you need a good supply chain, right. Really to make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application, at the right time. With, right, the ability to do it at speed. And so, all of these things are factors, as you look at our whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud strategy, right. And being able to manage that, Edge to core and then back up to Cloud, etcetera. >> Right, now I wonder if you could share some stories, cause the value proposition around Cloud, is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right. But it's not about cost, it's not about cost savings, I mean there's a lot of that in there and that's good, but really the opportunity is about speed. Speed and innovation. And enabling more innovation across your Enterprise, with more people having more access to more data, to build more apps, and really, to react. Are people getting that? Or, are they still, the customer still kind of encumbered, by this kind of transition phase, they're still trying to sort it out, or do they get it? That really this opportunity is about speed, speed, speed. >> No, go ahead. I mean we use a phrase first off, it's, "fear no cloud", right. To your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy. But, I think within that you get, what's the right application? And how do you, you know, fit it in to the overall strategy, of what you're trying to do. >> Yeah. >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole, right, when you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, right, and applications, and how are you going to, some you're going to retain, some you're going to retire, some you're going to (stutters) refactor for the cloud, or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is, you're going to be looking at doing, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters, like even the hyperscalers, themselves, right. They recognize the speed, so you know, we're working with Google for instance. They wanted to get into the Bare-metal, as a service capability, right. Them actually building it, getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud architecture, that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub-millisecond latency, right. And so, they're the ones, right, everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and prebook capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well, is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers. Because it is, as we talked about in this multicloud world, lots of things that you have to manage, if you can get pieces from multiple, you know, from a partner, right, that can provide more of the services that you need, it really enables the management of those clouds sources. >> Right, so we're going to wrap it up, but I just want to give you the last word in terms of, what's the most consistent blind spot, that you see when you're first engaging with a customer, who's relatively early on this journey, that they miss, that you see over, and over, and over, and you're like, you know, these are some of the thing you really got to think about, that they haven't thought about. >> Yeah so, for me, I think it's- the cloud isn't about a destination, it's about an experience. And so, how do you get- you talked about the operations, but how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use this simple analogy, that if you and I needed a car, for five or 10, or 15 minutes, you go get an Uber. Cause it's easy, it's quick. If you need a car for a couple days, you do a rental car. You need a car for a year, you might do a lease. You need a car for three, four year, you probably by it, right? And so, if you use that analogy and think, Hmmm, I need a workload application for five/six years, putting something at a persistent workload, that you know about on a public cloud, may be the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibited. But, if you need something, that you can stand up in five minutes, and shut it right back down, the public cloud is absolutely, the right way to go, as long as you can deal with the security requirements, and stuff. And so, if you think about, what are the actual requirements, is it cost, is it performance, you've talked about speed and everything else. It's really trying to figure out how you get an experience, and the only experience that can really hit you, what you need to do today, is having the right hybrid strategy. And every company, I know Accenture was out, way in front of the market on public cloud, and now they've come to the realization, so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, it's going to be multicloud. And as long as you can have an experience, and a partner, that can manage, you know, help you define the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> Jeff: Melissa. >> I think blind spot we run into is, it does start off as a cost savings activity. And there really, it really is so much more about, how are you going to manage that enterprise workload? How are you going to worry about the data? Are you going to have access to it? Are you going to be able to make it fluid, right? The whole essence of cloud, right, what it disrupted was the thought, that something had to stay in one place, right. And, where the real time decisions were being made. Where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds, as well as, that you had to own it yourself, right. I mean, everyone always thought, okay, I'll take all the, you know, I.T. department, and very protective of everything that it wanted to keep. Now, it's about saying, all right, how do I utilize, the best of each of these multiclouds, to stand up, what I'll call, what their core capability is as a customer, right. Are they doing the next chip design? Are they, you know, doing financial market models, right? That requires a high performance capability, right. So, when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power, is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products, and services to market, and touching the customers I need. Versus, oh, I'm going to move this out to an infrastructure, because that's what cloud, it'll save me money, right. That's typically the downfall we see, because they're not looking at it from the workload, or the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator, and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff, (laughs) that's not your core. Alright, well Melissa, David, thanks for taking a minute, and I really enjoyed the conversation. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> She's Melissa, He's David, and I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. We are high above the San Francisco skyline, in the Salesforce tower at the Accenture Innovation Hub. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (tech music)

>> Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey. Here with the Cube, we are high Top San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower and the brand new A century's Thean Novation hub opened up, I don't know. Six months ago or so, we were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stare. So if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about a cloud in the evolution of cloud and hybrid cloud. And clearly two players that are right in the middle is helping customers get through this journey and do these migrations. Our center and h. P. E s were excited to have our next guest, Melissa Bessie. She is the managing director, Intelligent cloud and infrastructure strategic partnerships at a center. Melissa. Welcome. And joining us from HP is David Stone. He's the VP of ecosystem sales. They have a great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this this new entrance with aws kind of coming on the scene. One of the great lines of Jeff Basil's talks about is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the the bookseller out on the left hand ah, edges coming in to take the river structure business. But as things have moved to Public Cloud, now there's hybrid cloud. No, no. All applications or work clothes are right for a public cloud. So now, while the enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves. But it's complicated. So first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary hybrid cloud versus multi cloud one of those terms mean to you and your customers started Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of multi cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of I would say multi Kludd operating model that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So you have your public cloud providers. You have your sass like, uh, sales force at work day, you have your pass right? And so when you think of multi cloud, any customers goingto have a plethora of all of these types of clouds and really being able to manage across those becomes critical. When you think of hybrid cloud hybrid cloud is really thinking about the placement of ill. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right? Are you going to put your data in the public or in the private space? And so you can't look at it from that perspective, and it really enables that data movement across both of those clouds. >> So what would you see? David and your, uh, your customers? I say that a >> lot of the customers that we see today or confused right the people who have gone to the public cloud have scratched their heads and said, Jeez, what do I do? It's not as cheap as I thought it was gonna be. So the ones who were early adopters or confused the ones who haven't moved yet are really scratching their head as well, Right, because if you don't have the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy, and I think that's where the market and I know a center and HPD clearly see them, the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, Melissa, You said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out where we more often hear it talked about workload. This kind of horses for courses, you know, it's a workload specific should be deployed in this particular kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mentioned data, and there's a lot of conversation kind of pre cloud about data, gravity and how expensive it is to move the date and the age old thing. Do you move the compute to the data, or do you move the data to the compute? A lot of advantages if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the ah, the real negatives in terms of potential cost implications. And we didn't even get into regulations and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay in the data center. So how should people start thinking about these variables when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Ex enters position Definitely like when we started off on our hybrid cloud journey was to capture the workload and once you have that workload you could really balance. It's the public benefits of speed, innovation and consumption with the private benefits of actually regulation, data, gravity and performance. Right? And so our whole approach and big bet has been able is been to basically we had really good leading public capabilities because we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we we said, OK, if we create a hybrid capability that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, Um and that is standard. We'd be able to offer our customers a weight of pick, really the right workload in the right place at the right price. And that was really what? Our whole goal waas. >> Yeah, and so just the Adama Melissa said, I think we also think about at least, uh, you know, keeping the data in a place where you want but then being cloud adjacent. So getting in the right data centers and we often use the cloud saying to bring the cloud to the data right? So if you have the right hybrid strategy. You put the data where it makes the most sense where you want to maintain the security and privacy. Ah, but then have access to the AP eyes and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we hear a lot of the data center providers like quinyx and stuff talking about features like Direct Connect and Noted Toe have this proximity between the public cloud and the and the stuff that's in your private cloud so that you do have no low latent see, and you can when you do have to move things or you do need to access that data. It's not so far away. Um, I'm curious about the impact of companies like Salesforce with Salesforce Tower here in San Francisco at the Centre Offices and Office 3 65 and Work Day on how kind of the adoption of the SAS applications have changed. The conversation about Cloud or what's important and not important, needs to be security. I don't trust eating outside my data center Now, one might argue that public clouds are more secure in some ways than in private cloud. You have disgruntled employees per se running around the data centers on plugging things. So how? How is the adoption of things like Officer 65? Clearly, Microsoft's leverage that in a big way to grow their own cloud presence changed the conversation about what's good about Cloud. What's not good about Chlo? Why should we move in this direction? But if you have thought >> no, look, it's a great question, and I think if you think about that, his Melissa said, the use cases right and Microsoft is have sex. Feli successfully pivoted their business to it as a service model, right? And so what I think it's done is it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the sales forces of the world have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a sass based offer. And so when you could do a work day or a salesforce dot com implementation shirt, it's been built that it's tested and everything else I think, what then becomes the bigger question in the bigger challenges. Most companies air sitting on 1000 applications that have been built over time, and what do you do with those? And so in many cases, you need to be connected to those SAS space providers. But you need the right hybrid strategy again. To be able to figure out how to connect those SAS based service is to whatever you're gonna do with those 1000 workloads and those 1000 workloads running on different things that you need the right strategy to figure out where to put the actual workloads and is people they're trying to go. I know one of the questions that comes up is Do you my grade or do you modernize? And so as people put that strategy together, I think how you tied to those SAS based service is clearly ties into your hybrid strategy, >> I would agree. And so, as David mentioned, right, that's where the clouded Jason see, you're seeing a lot of blur between public and private. I mean, Google's providing bare metal is a service, so it is actually dedicated hybrid cloud capabilities. Right? So you're seeing a lot of everyone. And as as David talked about all of the surrounding applications around your s a P around Oracle, when we created our ex enter hyper cloud, we were going after the enterprise workload. But there is a lot of legacy and other ones that need that data and or the sales force data, whatever the data is right and really be able to utilize it when they need to in a real low leagues. >> So let's I want to get unpacked. The ah central hybrid cloud. Um, what is that exactly is that is that your guys own cloud is, you know, kind of a solution set. I've heard that mentioned a couple of times. So what is the centre? Hyper cloud? >> So eccentric hybrid cloud was a big bet we made as we saw the convergence of multi cloud. We really said, We know we everything is not gonna go public and in some cases it's all coming back. And so customers really needed a way to look at all of their workloads, right? Because part of the issue with the getting the cost of the benefits out of public is the workload goes. But you really don't earn able to get out of the data center. We terminate the wild animal park because there's a lot of applications that right Are you going to modernize? Are you goingto let them to end of life? so there's a lot of things you have to consider to truly exit a data center strategy. And so its center hybrid cloud is actually a big bet we made. It is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability that really augments all of the leading capability we had in the cloud area. It is it's differentiated women, a big bet with HP. It's differentiated on its hardware. One of the reasons when we're going after the enterprise was they need large compute. They have large computer and large storage requirements, and what we were able to dio is when we created this used some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client that we had an existing Io environment. We were actually able to achieve some significant benefits just from the automation. We got 50% in the provisioning of applications. We got 40% in the provisioning in the V m on, and we were able to take a lot of what I'll call the manual tasks and down Thio. It was like 62% reduction in the effort as well as a 33% savings overall in getting things production ready. So this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning at the application level because we're going after the enterprise workloads and it will create these. It's an asset that came from the government. So it's highly secured. Um, and it really was able to preserve. I think, what our customer needed and being able to span that public private capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, you could say I don't know that there's enough talk aboutthe complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing this a sideman piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit. Talk about HBC. A lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with a I and machine learning now, which you know most of those benefits are going to be realized in a specific application, right? It's a machine learning or artificial intelligence apply to a specific application. So again, you guys big, big iron and been making big iron for ah, long time. What is this kind of hybrid cloud open up in terms of HB Ito have the big, heavy big heavy metal instead it and still have kind of the agility and flexibility of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about what HB strategy has been in this area and high performance compute, we bought the company SG eye on. As you've seen, the announcements were hopefully gonna close on the Kree acquisition as well. And so we see in the world of the data continuing to expand in huge volumes, the need to have incredible horsepower to drive that associated with it. Now all of this really requires Where's your data being created and where's it actually being consumed? And so you need to have the right edge to cloud strategy and everything. And so in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge to be able to compute in do stuff in real time. But in many cases, you need to feed all that data back into ah, Mother Cloud or some sort of mother HP, you know, e type of high performance, confused environment that can actually run the more advanced a I in machine learning type of applications to really get the insights and tune the algorithms and then push some of those AP eyes and applications back to the edge. So it's it's an area of huge investment. It's an area where because of the late and see, uh, and you know things like autonomous driving and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud or you need cloud type capability if you will have able to compute and make the right decisions at the right time. So it's about having the right computer technology at the right place at the right time. The right cost and the right perform a >> lot of rights. Yeah, good opportunity for a center. So I mean, it's it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud and and that kind of new new verbs around Cloud and cloud like things is where we're gonna see the same thing. Kind of the edge, the edge versus the data center comparison in terms of where the data is, where the processing is because it's gonna be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out? I was like the edge because there was no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that grade. And maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, EJ offers a whole bunch of different challenges that you can control for in a data center. But it is going to be this crazy kind of hybrid world there, too, in terms of where the allocation of those resource is. Are you guys getting deeper into that model, Melissa? >> So we're definitely working with HP again to create some of all call it our edge. Manage. Service is again going back to what we're saying about the data, right? We saw the centralization of data with a cloud with the initial entrance into the cloud. Now we're seeing the decentralization of that data back out to the edge. Um, with that right in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need. They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil and exploration, if you look at media processing right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things and depending on where it's located, if it's on the edge. How you're gonna feed back the data as we talked about. And so we're looking at How do you take this foundation? Right. This all colonic center hybrid. Um, architecture. I take that and play that intermediate role. I'm gonna call it intermediary. Right, Because you really need a really good you know, global data map. You need a good supply chain, right? Really? To make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application at the right time, with right, the ability to do it at speed. And so all of these things air factors as we look at our hole ex center, hybrid cloud strategy, right? And being able to manage that EJ decor and then back out to cloud exactly >> right. And I wonder if you could share some stories because the value proposition I think around cloud is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right? It's not about cost. It's not about cost savings. I mean, there's a lot of that in there, and that's good. But really, the opportunity is about speed, speed and innovation and enabling more innovation across your enterprise. with more people having more access to more data to build more APS and really to react. Are people getting that or they still the customer still kind of encumbered by this this kind of transition phase. They're still trying to sort it out. Or do they get it? That that really this opportunity is about speed, Speed, speed? No, >> go ahead. I mean, we use a phrase first offices here. No cloud, right. So to your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy? But I think within that you you get what's the right application and how do you fit it into the overall strategy of what you're trying to do? >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, um, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole right. When you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, write applications. And how are you going to some? You're gonna retain some? You're gonna retire some. You're gonna reap age. You're gonna re factor for the cloud or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is you're going to be looking at doing? Um, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters like even the papers killers themselves, right? They recognize the speed. So, you know, we're working with Google. For instance. They wanted to get into the bare metal as a service capability. Write them, actually building it. Getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole ex center hybrid cloud architecture that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub millisecond latency, and so their loved ones, Right? Everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and pre book capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers because it is, as we talked about this multi cloud were lots of things that you have to manage if you can get pieces from multiple plate, you know, from a partner right that can provide Maur of the service is that you need it really enables the management of right, >> right, So gonna wrap it up. I won't give you the last word in terms of what's the what's the most consistent blind spot that you see when you're first engaging with a customer who's who's relatively early on this journey that that they miss that you see over and over and over. And you're like, you know, these are some of the things you really gotta think about that they haven't thought about >> Yeah, so for me, I think it's the cloud isn't about a destination. It's about an experience. And so how do you get you talked about the operations? But how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use a simple analogy that if you and I needed a car for five or 10 or 15 minutes, you go get a new bir. Uh, because it's easy. It's quick. If you need a car for a couple days to do a rent a car, we need a car for a year. You might do at least you need a car for 34 years. You probably buy it right. And so if you use that analogy and think whom I need a workload or in the application for 56 years putting something out, persistent workload that you know about on a public cloud, maybe the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibitive. But if you need something that you can stand up in five minutes and shut right back down, the public cloud is absolutely the right way to go is long as you can deal with the security requirements and stuff. So if you think you think about what are the actual requirements, is it costs is a performance. You've talked about speed and everything else it really trying to figure out you get an experience and the only experience that can really hit you. What you need to do today is a having the right hybrid strategy and every company and a century was out way in front of the market on Public Cloud, and now they've come to the realization, and so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, and it's gonna be multi cloud. And as long as you can have an experience and a partner that can manage, you know, help you to find the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> I think the blinds, but we run into is it does start off as a cost savings activity, and they're really. It really is so much more about how you're going to manage that enterprise workload. How are we gonna worry about the data? Are you gonna have access to it? Are you gonna be able to make it fluid, right. The whole essence of cloud, right? What? It What it disrupted was the I thought that something had to stay in one place, right? And that you were the real time decisions were being made where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds as well as that, you had to own it yourself, right? I mean, everyone always thought Okay, uh, I'll take all of the I T. Department. Very protective of everything that wanted to keep. Now it's about saying, All right, how do I utilize the best of each of these multi clouds to stand up? What? I'll call what their core capability is as a customer, right? Are they do in the next chip design or hey, you know, doing financial market models right? That requires a high performance capability, right? So when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power. Is is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products and service is to market and touching the car customers I need versus Oh, I'm gonna move this out to an infrastructure because that's what God will save me. Money, Right, Bench. Typically the downfall we see because they're not looking at it from the workload of the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff that that's not your core. All right, Well, Melissa David, Thanks for taking a minute and really enjoyed the conversation. Is Melissa? He's David. I'm Jeff. Rick, you're watching. The Cube were high above the San Francisco skyline in the sales force. Tyra. The essential innovation up. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Live from New York City, it's theCUBE, covering Lenovo Transform 2.0 brought to you by Lenovo. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Lenovo Transform here in New York City. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Stu Miniman. We're joined by Melissa Massa. She is the Executive Director of Hyperscale Sales. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. It's quite exciting. >> It is, it is very exciting. You're a cube newbie. >> I'm a cube newbie, yes. >> So this is very exciting. I'm sure it's the first of many visits. So Melissa we're at this real inflection point in technology and in AI as AI is ushering in this new wave with increasing use of big data and analytics and machine learning. All this means hyperscale is increasingly important. Can you just set the stage for our viewers a little bit about where we are in this-- >> Absolutely, yeah the transformation is really taking place in this industry that we know and love. And it's really amazing at how fast rapid the change is coming so if you look at in the past traditional one U two U type compute were the standard requirements right and today it's much more complex. It's becoming a much faster paced and you look at some of the big guys out there right from the top ten space. They're really helping to evolve AI and machine learning much faster as it's part of the cloud now and it's centric from the cloud space. So it's making things whether it's for personal use, for play, for business or for good humanity type areas. It's really helping involve and change the space altogether. >> One of the themes we've talked about in our kickoff there is Lenovo has a global presence, but it's also through a lot of partnerships. So Intel, Nvidia of course has to be very important in the AI space, you know, people like Microsoft and VMware. That's very much you know, some of those last ones especially look like Microsoft and VMware very much on the enterprise side. The cloud, the hyperscale, you mentioned the top 10 providers. What are the pieces, what are they looking for? What's the expertise that Lenovo brings that helps you fight in this very competitive real tight margin and very demanding ever-changing marketplace? >> You know this marketplace well? You sum it up very well, but in this in this marketplace, when you look at what the big guys are doing right and then you talk about partnerships, in our space, we don't come in and we don't have predisposition in terms of what we're going to. It's really through understanding what they're trying to do with technology and the direction they're going and it's interesting because at Lenovo we have several hundred engineers now dedicated just in our hyperscale organization, but we have 2000 engineers across the globe. So this really allows us to tap into this expertise in our organization, everything from even HPC aspects to multi socket boxes to different types of platforms, you look at ARM, you can look at AMD, look at Intel. So we don't really try to be one provider. We try to be the provider for our customers, and what their needs and where their requirements are going. >> So where have you seen the most success and we're looking forward do you see the growth coming from? >> Yeah we've started out a little bit different in this space. I think a lot of companies take a while getting their name out and getting traction, trying to grow up in what I'll call more that tier two that tier three space. Lenovo really has come into the tier one space. We're very fortunate in that aspect that we kind of are doing more of a top-down trajectory, so we've been very successful. I think you've heard Kirk talk about and you'll hear us continue to talk about the partnerships we have today with ten of the largest, truth be known, I've got pilots going on with the others. I think in a very short period of time we'll be talking about what we're doing across all of the top ten that is really unique to Lenovo, but again I think one of the reasons there's been success there is there's an availability of an engineer to engineer relationship we bring to the table that is really unique and allows our customers as they're going through this evolution with this change in the cloud space, they're realizing that there's not always the expertise they need in house. They've got to go outside and external and look for help in certain areas. One of the areas is we have an eight socket box and it's a great box with an incredibly high memory footprint and there's not a reference architecture on that box in the marketplace. Lenovo really helped develop it. So that's been a great platform for us to be able to have conversations with clients around for SAP hosting, HANA hosting and whatnot. >> Can you talk a little bit about this kind of the scale and investment Lenovo needs to have to be successful in this space? For those of us that track the hyperscales it's like you know there's tens of billions of dollars a year that they're investing in people, plant, and infrastructure. Kirk mentioned in the keynote, what was it? 42 soccer field size manufacturing facility. Is that only for hyperscale? Is it used for some of the other businesses? Help us unpack that a little yeah. >> So that's great, great question. To be in this business, you have to be incredibly committed into this business right, and I can say from YY on down through our entire leadership organization, there is a passion around this space from a hyperscale compute perspective in ensuring our success. In order to do that it really comes with making those right investments, so we can take care of these customers both near-term and long-term. This is not a short-term thing. This is an incredibly long-term plan for us and I will tell you the growth numbers they've given me over the course of the next years so that we have to make these types of investments right, so not only do we leverage our own manufacturing plants, but fortunately for Lenovo, we own. So it really helps minimize margin stacking but I've got great manufacturing facilities around the world and also now as you heard today, and the 42 football fields, we have started our own motherboard lines in our Hefei China Factory. So we'll be producing over 40,000 boards there a year with the two lines we have and then we're going to continue to grow well beyond that. >> So you are a tech veteran. You've been, at this is not your first rodeo here at Lenovo. How would you describe, I mean talking about YY's vision and the commitment he has made to hyperscale, what do you think it is that differentiates Lenovo in this very crowded and competitive tech world? >> I came from a couple of different places before Lenovo. So I had seen the OEM, I had seen the ODM aspect. And I was nervous when we launched this out of Lenovo as to how well is the market going to receive it. It's a crowded place and then you've started to see some of the other players that have been there, have faded off right. So what's really interesting about Lenovo when people ask us about what is your strategy, it's really we call it our ODM plus model and what does that mean? Well it means I'm taking the best parts of an OEM from a size, the global perspective of the markets I can get into for my clients are incredible and for an export of record, being able to get them into markets that are very challenging for others, I have a global services organization. So if you do need me to happen to come into your data center and help with other things, we have that capability too. And then also, but because I own my own manufacturing and I don't outsource anything, I keep relatively low costs to do business with. I can compete with more of that traditional ODM size and now you take the full vertical integration we have and you bring that to the table with being able to we manufacture all of our own motherboards, all the way up through our systems, it's a pretty powerful story, and I think from what we've seen the clients have really resonated with this story. They like what they're seeing from the benefits. >> Yeah it's so much we can learn, maybe you talk so much about scale, I think first of all the customer base that you talk about, 5000 servers or more is kind of the entry level for that, and just the speed that they're changing. A question we get all the time is how do people keep up with this? Give us a little bit of insight as to what you're hearing from your customers in the hyperscale market? How are they keeping to innovate, keeping to grow and how can everybody deal with kind of the pace of change today? >> It's unbelievable, I mean you look around it's immersive data. It's the network you got all this data now and you've got to get it through a pipe right and so there's all these different aspects coming. I've always told our customers look if there are areas that I can't help you with in, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to be more what's right up the middle for you guys, so we really focus on where are you going, where are you evolving, where do you need help from, how can we help to get you? I don't know if Kirk or anybody at the team has talked about it, but really breaking news for you guys because I was going to announce it in pitch today is that we are actually going to build our own white box networking products, and we're going to leave them open source from an OS perspective for our customers too, because we feel this is going to be a very key area for them. We've got the in-house talent. We've actually moved a number of engineers on our networking team directly into our hyperscale organization to get this started. >> Okay is this announcement which, congratulations by the way, is this, are you hearing that demand from the hyperscalers? Some of the hyperscalers have-- >> Absolutely. >> Kind of dipped their toe in there. I know you've been at the OCP events where we see some of the big players like Microsoft and Google. How do they fit, how does that compete against Cisco, so yeah how much of that is kind of a requirement to the customers? >> It is a requirement. I think if you're going to be all-in with these customers because we happen to have a great investment in the networking space already. Also you see Lenovo I think we're a company that we don't come with 50 years of habits right? We come as a fresh company. I never hear inside the company oh we tried that 10 years ago, and we don't want to do it again. We come with a fresh perspective and approach to building our business. We've got the networking organization inside of our company. Why not proliferate it in the next generation and why does that matter? Open matters right? Everything look at what's coming today. Open BMC, open OS. I have major customers coming into Raleigh and sitting down and talking to us about where we going from a security perspective, and how we're going to bring open security standards into this market? >> The other thing when I think about you know, YY mentioned it. Cloud network and device kind of things like IOT and the global device because everybody, AI and IOT everybody's going there. How does that play in your space? >> It just continues, the data just continues to double in massive size and scale, and there are new technologies out. People are learning to use things like the FPGA is a lot smarter and you look at like what they're able to do today from that technology and deliver one server that can take the compute power of four now. So all of that is helping to evolve this rapid pace and where we're going. >> Finally what we'll be talking about next year? I mean perhaps inked deals with the remaining four players that you are in pilot programs with. What other things are most exciting to you? >> Yeah so I think in what you're going to find is I'm launching a team that's going to go after the tier II and tier III market. And we're going to really start to invest in this space. We're going to really start to proliferate. Paul and I, you saw up on the screen. We have 33 custom boards in design today. We have a factory that we need to fill right, so we're going to continue to really push the envelope on everything we're going to be developing from a custom perspective. I think you're going to see it evolve with quite a number of products, maybe even more so beyond just your traditional server approach. We're there to help clients in other areas where they also need to manufacture maybe a part or what could be a commodity for them. And they need special attention in that particular space. We're going to continue to work with them, but I would say the biggest thing. When I'm sitting here next year is going to be the sheer size of where this hyperscale team is going and the revenue and the growth that's bringing in to Lenovo overall. >> Great well thank you so much for coming into theCUBE Melissa. >> It was nice talking to you. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more from theCUBE live at Lenovo Transform in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Magento Imagine 2018. Brought to you by Magento. >> Hey welcome back to theCUBE, our live coverage of Magento Imagine 2018. This is an awesome event, 3,000 attendees. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we're going to be here all day. We're really stoked to have our next guest Melissa Ben-Ishay who is the Chief Product Officer and President of Baked by Melissa. Cupcakes, I love them. Melissa, your drive and your passion during your keynote was electric. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thank you so much for having me. So you have this awesome story that I think is going to inspire many, many, many more people than it probably already has. You were fired from a job about 10 years ago and it was the best thing ever because it led to the genesis of not only Baked by Melissa, but you following your passion and living your dreams. Tell us a little bit about that and how you turned this idea into a business and are using technology to reach hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. >> Sure, so I mean nobody wants to be fired and it definitely sucked when it happened, but I wasn't passionate about the work I was doing and that's ultimately why I was fired. I was not good at the job. And if I wasn't I would have never had the opportunity to start a company like Baked by Melissa and be so passionate about what I do everyday. So, I took that crappy day, I went home, I baked four batches of cupcakes, sent them into work with my best friend's little sister. An owner of a PR firm loved them, put me in touch with her caterer who brought me in for a tasting and I started doing events as Melissa of Baked by Melissa with this high-end caterer in Manhattan less than a week after I was fired from my job and what I've learned is that it's a certain attitude and mindset. It's not rocket science. If you see every challenge as an opportunity and you surround yourself with people who have skills that you don't and you work your butt off, then you can truly do anything. And the Baked by Melissa story, is just the perfect example of that. >> What about the founder's story, you really had to hustle you can tell by the keynote, being a founder myself, I know there's a rollercoaster of emotions. >> Lisa: Sure. >> But you kind of really got to get the nose to the grindstone, hit the pavement. Tell about the key moments in the founding because you really had to hustle it. >> Lisa: Yeah. >> I think that's really the key. >> Sure it is, and I knew that I had the opportunity to do what I love every day, so I was obsessed with cupcakes while I was working in advertising I would eat like two giant cupcakes a day because they were my favorite food. And I baked cupcakes, I baked my tie-dye cupcakes for everyone and anyone, if it was your birthday and I loved you, I baked you tie-dye cupcakes. It was a hobby. So, when I met this caterer for a tasting, I saw it as a great opportunity. One that would allow me to, potentially, do what I love every single day and I knew in my head like I remember like talking to myself, "Melissa, you have the chance to do what you love every day, you need to everything you possibly can to achieve this goal, because you cannot live a life of could have, would have, should have." >> John: What was the >> And that's me today. >> Melissa, what was the moment when you said, "Damn, I could do this, this is a business"? Was it, what was that moment? Talk about that moment. >> So we founded the company about 10 years ago. I'm just starting to feel like "Damn, I can do this." like we are in such a good place right now. We have such an unbelievable team of like-minded, hard-working, passionate people who get stuff done. And we can do anything. And we built this team and this foundation and just wait to see what's next. We're great. >> I love it. >> But it took a long time to really get that confidence. And by surrounding myself with people who love me and support me, they gave me confidence I needed when I didn't have it myself. >> So, 10 years later, nearly, you have 14 stores. You are available on your website, on Amazon, you're enabling people all over, at least the country, for sure to buy these cupcakes. I'm going to place an order later today, because I'm already, I love cupcakes too. >> Melissa: Thank you. >> So, tell us about, from a commerce standpoint, we're at Magento Imagine 2018. You guys have been using Magento for a few years now. How is this enabling you to reach, how did it, we'll say allow you to kind of connect your retail shops in the New York area with the greater country and those of us, you know, on the West Coast that can >> Sure. >> Now buy your products. >> We've really focused on our multi-channel distribution, and I think it's a great opportunity to touch multiple people at different points. Our goal is to keep the messaging very consistent, whether you walk into one of our retail locations and make a purchase over the counter or go to BakedbyMelissa.com and order it for shipping or even just interact with our social media pages. The consistency in messaging and brand is our top most priority. And then, you know, we have, we do, we have an unbelievable product. We have this great brand that I happen to be the face of and I love to represent. So we have this like winning kind of equation for a platform like Magento and just all the opportunity we have today, technologically to reach more people. And that's what's so exciting. As I'm walking around this area and seeing all of these new technologies and solutions and ways to get our messaging to more people, it's just so exciting. And my wheels are spinning, it's like, okay so now how can I use this new ability to do this to achieve our goal of selling 100 million in cupcakes in 2020? >> I mean the big question always is, is like the tech used to be really complicated now it's got to be easier. You don't want to spend your time thinking about what tech you got to buy. Really, I mean, >> Melissa: Sure it's again, >> You've been successful just by killing it on the product side. >> Totally and I thank God I have an unbelievable team of people and like my tech team are the people who oversee, the person who oversees our website is absolutely amazing. She is the definition of get shit done and always learning and I've learned through her at this conference. So, you know, putting people in the positions who are the best people for those roles so they can focus on their strengths and then I can, in turn, focus on my strengths. >> John: Yeah. >> And you know being somewhere like here allows me to think big picture about our technologies and Magento and what we can do more. >> Look, take a minute to talk about how many stores you have, where the locations are, the website, how people get in touch with you, locations. You say you ship around the country, just give a quick plug on what's going on with the site, the locations. >> Sure, well we have 14 retail location. We offer free pick up and free delivery in Manhattan at our store locations. We ship our product nationwide, a big chunk of our business is e-com and we're focusing on growing that business because it is a great opportunity to reach people where we don't have brick and mortar an we're going to continue to expand our retail footprint in the next year and a half. So, we're, it's very exciting. >> How do you ship cupcakes? I always, I just drive back from the store and my kids complain, "Dad, you shouldn't put them in the backseat" you know, "they tilted" or I mean, is there a packaging thing? I mean >> Melissa: Yeah, of course. >> We're very solution oriented and innovative at Baked by Melissa, we actually started started shipping our products in April of 2010, so at the time, we only had two retail locations >> John: Yeah. >> and we were shipping our product nationwide. What we did is we designed a, like a package, that keeps the product perfectly fresh >> John: Nice. >> and perfectly safe in transit and it allows us to get the same quality of product if not even better to people all across the country. >> So talk to us about social media. I was telling you over the weekend, I, when I found out I was going to talk to someone who makes cupcakes, I love cupcakes so much, I was so excited, I tweeted you and then on Instagram probably half an hour later saw some information from you guys. Talk to us, not only about how you're using social media to reach so many more people, but also the Side with Love Project and how that is taking storm in social media. >> So, Side with Love is a very, very special opportunity for us where we were touched by something our President said that wasn't positive and it did not represent who we are as a company and we, you know, kind of saw it as, you know, we needed to do something about it, I guess is the best way to say it, we weren't okay with what was happening and we decided that we wanted to do something to inspire people to do random acts of kindness for people. So we said, you know what, we're going to give away 150 thousand cupcakes, we're going to side with love and we're going to inspire people to send 25 cupcakes for free anywhere in the country to anyone they want completely on us. So, we did that, we partnered with Something Digital whose amazing and they were geniuses and said, "You should probably put a queue on your website so it doesn't crash, we did that, we had 60,000 people in line to purchase these cupcakes and it's who we are, Right? We saw something happening in the world and we responded. And we, we, we made life sweeter for a lot of people. And that's what we do in everything, we saw a challenge and we made it an opportunity to just show people who we are and show them that no matter what's happening in the White House or in the world, you are you, and you're responsible for who you are and you can do whatever you want. >> What's the one thing, or two things that you can talk about as in an entrepreneur journey that surprised you that you were like, "Wow, that really happened, we overcame it." There's always those moments that you have to break through glass or really fight hard or really overcome adversity? >> Yeah, absolutely, so I would say that the biggest thing I've learned is emotional control, and how important it is not to communicate when you're feeling emotional and when you have a crappy day, it's not the end of the world, you're going to wake up the following day and the sun will shine, like God willing, so far, so good. So, I had a lot of moments where I felt like the world was going to end and I was so upset I was in business with my family. Like, it wasn't easy, but I woke up the next day and I always had these conversations with my dad where he kind of enforced how important like pressure makes a diamond a diamond, right? So, having a lot of those experiences definitely gave me the strength that I have today to know that it's never the end of the world. That it's those challenging situations that make you who you are. They make you stronger and I also learned that it's not rocket science. It's a basic attitude towards life that helps you succeed in anything you do. Whether it's business or raising a family or whatever your goals are, be positive, see every challenge as an opportunity. Surround yourself with people who support you. Quality not quantity. The world is your oyster and you can do anything if you're willing to work at it. >> I hear a book deal coming. (laughing) >> So inspiring. So, >> Thank you. >> You mentioned a really big lofty goal. Can you repeat that again with the number? >> Our goal is to sell 100 million cupcakes in 2020. >> In 20, by 2020. So here we are 2018 in April, you're 14 stores. People can buy it through your website, through Amazon, your engaging through social media. You have this huge goal that is around the corner. What are you going to be doing the rest of the year, and this year to be setting the business up to achieve that? >> Well everything that we do, we go back to the is that in line with selling 100 million cupcakes in 2020, and that's kind of how we choose because focus is essential as you grow a company there are so many opportunities. How do you decide to focus on? Is that going to help us >> John: Yeah. >> to get to 100 million cupcakes? We're focusing on growing our e-commerce business and it's growing, and it's very exciting. We're focusing on our multi-channel distribution and making sure the brand is consistent and we're opening additional retail locations. That does affect our e-com. We're going to open in new markets and we're going to reach new people who have never heard of us before, and we're going to get there. >> John: Melissa, I'm so impressed with you. Thanks for coming on, but I want to ask you the brand question because you're the Chief Product Officer, you got to come up with the new ideas and you got to stay fresh >> Melissa: Sure. you know with the brand. You got great loyalty. As you look out, as the trends go by, never fight fashion, right, you're a great mission based company, great values. As you look at the next, you know, trends, what's going on in the cupcake world, I mean, what do you look for? I mean, you must worry, you don't want to be out dated, you don't want to be yesterday's old, long in the tooth, as they say, but you want to be fresh. You got the fresh cupcakes. What's the, what's the trend in the cupcake world? What are you seeing? >> I don't know. How's that for you? I really don't like to focus on trends. We're not a trend and I think we didn't get to where we are by trying to compare ourselves to others, that's who I am, right? And I am Melissa, so I know that it's my job to bring you the most delicious product. We have a variety of flavors that are always changing. Everything is hand-made by people who love the product as much as I do, who I trained. >> John: So you're making the trends. >> Yeah, and you know what, I'm just staying true >> John: You got to come up with the new ideas. >> To who we are. Oh, and I always am, that's what I love to do. That's what got us here in the first place. >> Alright, craziest cupcake you made? >> So we're Kosher Certified and I did make a bacon cupcake and it wasn't good and it didn't have bacon in it, but whatever, (laughter) I guess that was the craziest one. >> Awesome. >> Awesome, well trendsetter, definitely. You're very inspiring. >> Thank you. We want to thank you so much for taking time to stop by and share with us what you're doing and how you're leveraging e-commerce technology to do it. But also this passion and setting trends. Melissa Ben-Ishay we want to thank you for joining us. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> And for John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE Live at Magento Imagine 2018. We're in Vegas, stick around John and I will be right back with our next guest after a short break. (tech music)

(Upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Orlando Florida, It's theCUBE covering PentahoWorld 2017. Brought to you by Hitachi Vantara. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of PentahoWorld, brought to you, of course, by Hitachi Vantara, I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost James Kobielius. We're joined by Charles Gaddy, he is the Business Development Manager at Melissa Data. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Great, thank you for having me. >> So tell us, tell our viewers a little bit about Melissa Data and what you do there. >> Well, Melissa is a data quality and identity assurance company, so we have been around for 30 years. And we're a 30 year old start up you might say. Very innovative in what we do, and the way we address our problems. We are the strategic partner for Pentaho as it relates to data quality. So most of our data quality solutions are embedded and available within the Pentaho stack. So my particular role there is to facilitate global sales and alliances, and Pentaho is one of our global alliances. >> Okay, so that's the, it's a strategic alliance, and so what is your relationship now with Hitachi Vantara? >> That's a great question, because now that we're with Hitachi Vantara, one of the things we're focusing on is a strategy around data quality blue prints. Data quality blueprints are something that Pentaho brought in to that relationship, or that new company, right? And it's a powerful way that they sell their solutions, and craft the message around their solutions in a way that sounds less technical and more engaging, I think. And I'll give you a bit of an opinion there, and so we're very excited to be one of the first companies, from a partner perspective, to do a blueprint that's not strictly Pentaho based. >> Is it, you're talking about blueprints, is it a consultative marketing and sales tool? Or is it a solution accelerator template, or a bit of both? >> You stole my thunder, I was going to say I think it's a bit of both actually, yes. The nice thing that I've seen about the other ones they've done and the one that we're crafting is, you're taking a use case, effectively, and you're breaking down what you're bringing to that use case, with a sprinkle of technology, so that they know it is a technical solution, as well as a consultative sale. Then you're telling them about the problem you're going to solve with it, and the expected outcomes after you've solved that problem. So, the first use case is around customer data quality, within online retail, right. So, everything from preventing packages from being misplaced by using address verification, and geocoding in order to improve the quality of address data that you're shipping, all the way through to customer demographics, so you can understand and overlay demographic information about the customers you're targeting online. All of these solutions, we bring the data piece of that, and Pentaho brings the other elements to make that combined blueprint. >> So just in hearing you say those things, I'm thinking back to what we heard on the main stage today, about the potential of the dark side, in the sense of the models maybe being used for nefarious reasons, I mean, how do you guard against that? >> Well, you know, there's that AI component, which was very much of the Skynet comment I believe, and then there's data quality, which, having been around data quality for quite a while, there's a rules based element to that, that isn't necessarily AI based, so you don't necessarily have as much of that dark side to deal with, what you are rightfully pointing out, is the idea that you're using elements of data that represent someone's identity potentially, right. And how do you protect and safeguard that? And our 30 years in the business really gives us an insight on how to protect the data in ways that insure the quality of it, but then also insure that it's not used for nefarious purposes, like you said. >> Okay, so as you know, Pentaho co-founder James Dixon coined the term "the data lake". So how has Melissa partnered and integrated with Pentaho in that way? >> And how does data governance and quality ride upon and leverage the data lake to be effective? >> Okay, so it's a two part question. Looking at it from the perspective of what was described in the data lake, things are going in to the data lake. Well, you can take two approaches to it, I guess. You can try to boil that data lake, which is very challenging, you know. Or you can extract quality information out of it, and so, data quality, whether you're pushing data quality into the lake, or whether you're trying to extract actionable intelligence out of the lake, fits on both sides and gives you that step towards analytics and intelligence that you need. Right, otherwise it's a lake. The other side you mentioned is the governance side of it. So, our components that run, and our services that run as a part of what is offered with Pentaho, give elements of a feature like profiling, so you're able to profile the data as it's moving between these different places, see the anomalies, potentially address the anomalies, if that's something you need to do, or at least be aware of them so you know what's going on, right, and you're constantly monitoring. >> Does that involve AI or machine learning on your end to do that, the anomaly detection within the data lake? >> There's elements of our technology that leverage pieces of that for sure. I wouldn't call it full blown AI from that perspective, but there are some patents and some proprietary technology that we have, that gives us a unique approach on how to profile that data, and how to make that profiled information actionable within Pentaho. >> So, you talked about the retailer use case, and that's how we can make sure the packages are delivered to the right places, and the demographic. What are some other examples of ways that we can use Melissa Data? >> Okay, so as luck would have it, the first blueprint we're doing is the customer one I just mentioned, but we're already talking with Hitachi Vantara about the idea of doing a financial services one, right. And so in that fin tech space, not only would you be able to leverage matching deduplication, which they call more of an identity resolution in that element, but you'd also be able to leverage the elements of data that we bring to bear to say that you are who you say you are. So you bundle those together in a fin tech, or a financial services model, and you've got a different use case from customers and online retail, but you still have a very compelling joint offering as you're pushing data through. >> Which is particularly relevant in light of the Equifax breach, which will haunt us for the rest of our lives, we keep hearing about this. >> Yes, you have to be very careful with the data that you utilize, absolutely. >> One of the terms we keep hearing a lot is future proofing. What does that mean to you at Melissa Data? How do you describe your approach to future proofing your business? >> So, it's interesting because, as I mentioned, we're pretty much a 30 year old start up, so as a function of that, we future proofed ourselves. Because we've evolved and adapted, you have to be nimble, you have to be agile, as well as embracing agile concepts, which, there's two different meanings there, if you will. And so, in looking at that, you want to make sure that you've got the right technology set, and that that technology set can be easily adapted and evolve over time, right. I think those are they key things we've done as a company, with the solutions we've built, and much like, I heard today on the keynote, that Hitachi had focused to do, we've done a very similar thing, because we started in direct marketing, with a database of zip codes. And now we offer matching, and we offer these cloud solutions and identity. So we've had a very similar track to that story you heard earlier. >> You've said it a couple of times, you're a 30 year old start up. How do you stay innovative? I mean, you're a 30 year old start up that now has employees in four locations across the U.S. dealing in huge businesses. How do you keep that start up mentality? The hungry mentality, and the hack-y mentality, I guess I should say too? >> One of the real advantages we've got there, is our CEO and founder has always innovated. From the first company before Melissa, all the way up through today, he's always been one to say we need to try that next thing, right. Pentaho, five or six years ago, was that next thing that he and our VP of strategy said we should try, and now I'm sitting here with you today. There's a top down, bottom up approach, if that makes sense to you, because if you have an idea, you can bring that idea forward as well. >> You consider the next thing, and Hitachi Vantara's been saying that in spades today here at this event, it's also a Wikibon research focus, the Edge, Edge computing, Edge analytics, data, machine data coming from Edge devices, how is Melissa Data, in partnership with Pentaho, moving towards this Edge to outcome frame of reference, or frame for building innovative solutions, where does that fit with your roadmap going forward? >> So our perspective on that, much like when we first engaged with them, data was going into the data lake, let's just get it all in there, get it all in there, get it all in there, get it all in there, right. Well, eventually you have to make that data actionable. You're going to have a reverse scenario with the Edge. There's a lot of data, small amounts, small chunks, that are going to be everywhere, I think it was talked about being on cell phones, and everywhere else. The idea that you can extend the reach of data quality along with the reach of analytics, to actually make sure you're getting the best data you can, to feed those microanalytics, to feed that, that's a critical part that we see as potential. >> Looking ahead, what are some of the problems that you want to solve, just sort of in the next year, the next five years, what are some of the things that you're thinking about and keeping you up at night right now. >> We're doing some very interesting things with globally unique identifiers, I'll call them that, not a GUID in that sense, but the idea that every address on the planet could be indexed, right. And then the idea beyond that was every email and every phone and every identity around that could be indexed. Then when you're dealing with a massive amount of indexes, becomes a lot faster and a lot easier to match, to dedupe, to do other data quality tasks. So, it's one of the projects that our CEO is very interested in, is this sort of indexing or massive indexing table concept. And so that's one of the things I know we're very focused on as an organization, and how that can feed all of our other technologies. >> How would that work, I mean, I know it's a research process in motion, but >> And keep in mind I am the head of global sales and alliances, so don't bust out all the too technical a question. (laughter) >> Yeah, so this is identity resolution at a massive scale, does it involve an internet of things, almost like a, slap me on the wrist, a graph, a social graph of you and all the identities you may have running on various Edge devices? You meaning a user. >> I think there is the potential for pieces. >> Remember, I'm a geek here so. >> Yeah, yeah there's a potential for pieces of that to be used in that way. Like an example we got approached about was, someone who wanted to have a cookie that represented the address that they just captured from this particular interaction on the web, right. Well, imagine if you could use this table of addresses that was indexed, right, to get that number back, and you just store that number constantly with that cookie, you'd never have to store that address data again, you could match that index against other indexes, and the uses go on and on and on. >> James: Right. >> So it's not complete in any way, so I wouldn't want to venture to answer the implete part of your question, but the idea that you can represent things with a series of numbers is how the internet got started, effectively, right, so you could look at something similar. >> Right. >> So you're here at PentahoWorld, and you said you're a biz dev manager, what is your, what do you hope to take away from it? I mean, are you talking? >> You mean outside of business? (laughter) >> Get some deals done, exactly. But what are you learning, what are you hearing, are you sharing best practices, and how do you do that here? >> Well, we're pretty tightly connected into different elements of what is now Hitachi Vantara, right, so we work with their office in Singapore, we work with them engaged all over the world, on many different fronts, and so it's nice to be here one, so you can literally put some faces with some names, right. And as you look at some of their different initiatives, like cyber security that I've seen, over there somewhere, and some of the other initiatives they've got going, they march a bit in lock step with what we're doing, and the nice thing about being here, is the ability to sort of reconcile that and see and talk about how we can go forward together with those elements, if that makes sense. >> James: Right. >> Absolutely. Well Charles, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, it's been a great talking to you. >> James: Yeah absolutely. >> Thank you for having me, I appreciate it. >> We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of PentahoWorld in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: TheCube presents HPE Discover 2022, brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome back to HPE Discover 2022, theCube's continuous wall to wall coverage, Dave Vellante with John Furrier. Keith Basil is here as the General Manager for the Edge Business Unit at SUSE. Keith, welcome to theCube, man good to see you. >> Great to be here, it's my first time here and I've seen many shows and you guys are the best. >> Thanks you. >> Thank you very much. >> Big fans of SUSE you know, we've had Melissa on several times. >> Yes. >> Let's start with kind of what you guys are doing here at Discover. >> Well, we're here to support our wonderful partner HPE, as you know SUSE's products and services are now being integrated into the GreenLake offering. So that's very exciting for us. >> Yeah. Now tell us about your background. It's quite interesting you've kind of been in the mix in some really cool places. Tell us a little bit about yourself. >> Probably the most relevant was I used to work at Red Hat, I was a Product Manager working in security for OpenStack and OpenShift working with DOD customers in the intelligence community. Left Red Hat to go to Rancher, started out there as VP of Edge Solutions and then transitioned over to VP of Product for all of Rancher. And then obviously we know SUSE acquired Rancher and as of November 1st, of 2020, I think it was. >> Dave: 2020. >> Yeah, yeah time is flying. I came over, I still remained VP of Product for Rancher for Cloud Native Infrastructure. And I was working on the edge strategy for SUSE and about four months ago we internally built three business units, one for the Linux business, one for enterprise container management, basically the Rancher business, and then the newly minted business unit was the Edge business. And I was offered the role to be GM for that business unit and I happily accepted it. >> Very cool. I mean the market dynamics since the 2018 have changed dramatically, IBM bought Red Hat. A lot of customers said, "Hmm let's see what other alternatives are out there." SUSE popped its head up. You know, Melissa's been quite, you know forthcoming about that. And then you acquire Rancher in 2020, IPO in 2021. That kind of gives you another tailwind. So there's a new market when you go from 2018 to 2022, it's a completely changed dynamic. >> Yes and I'm going to answer your question from the Rancher perspective first, because as we were at Rancher, we had experimented with different flavors of the underlying OS underneath Kubernetes or Kubernetes offerings. And we had, as I said, different flavors, we weren't really operating system people for example. And so post-acquisition, you know, one of my internal roles was to bring the two halves of the house together, the philosophies together where you had a cloud native side in the form of Rancher, very progressive leading innovative products with Rancher with K3s for example. And then you had, you know, really strong enterprise roots around compliance and security, secure supply chain with the enterprise grade Linux. And what we found out was SUSE had been building a version of Linux called SLE Micro, and it was perfectly designed for Edge. And so what we've done over that time period since the acquisition is that we've brought those two things together. And now we're using Kubernetes directives and philosophies to manage all the way down to the operating system. And it is a winning strategy for our customers. And we're really excited about that. >> And what does that product look like? Is that a managed service? How are customers consuming that? >> It could be a managed service, it's something that our managed service providers could embrace and offer to their customers. But we have some customers who are very sophisticated who want to do the whole thing themselves. And so they stand up Rancher, you know at a centralized location at cloud GreenLake for example which is why this is very relevant. And then that control plane if you will, manages thousands of downstream clusters that are running K3s at these Edge locations. And so that's what the complete stack looks like. And so when you add the Linux capability to that scenario we can now roll a new operating system, new kernel, CVE updates, build that as an OCI container image registry format, right? Put that into a registry and then have that thing cascade down through all the downstream clusters and up through a rolling window upgrade of the operating system underneath Kubernetes. And it is a tremendous amount of value when you talk to customers that have this massive scale. >> What's the impact of that, just take us through what happens next. Is it faster? Is it more performant? Is it more reliable? Is it processing data at the Edge? What's the impact of the customer? >> Yes, the answer is yes to that. So let's actually talk about one customer that we we highlighted in our keynote, which is Home Depot. So as we know, Kubernetes is on fire, right? It is the technology everybody's after. So by being in demand, the skills needed, the people shortage is real and people are commanding very high, you know, salaries. And so it's hard to attract talent is the bottom line. And so using our software and our solution and our approach it allows people to scale their existing teams to preserve those precious human resources and that human capital. So that now you can take a team of seven people and manage let's say 3000 downstream stores. >> Yeah it's like the old SRE model for DevOps. >> Correct. >> It's not servers they're managing one to many. >> Yes. >> One to many clusters. >> Correct so you've got the cluster, the life cycle of the cluster. You already have the application life cycle with the classic DevOps. And now what we've built and added to the stack is going down one step further, clicking down if you will to managing the life cycle of the operating system. So you have the SUSE enterprise build chain, all the value, the goodness, compliance, security. Again, all of that comes with that build process. And now we're hooking that into a cloud native flow that ends up downstream in our customers. >> So what I'm hearing is your Edge strategy is not some kind of bespoke, "Hey, I'm going after Edge." It connects to the entire value chain. >> Yes, yeah it's a great point. We want to reuse the existing philosophies that are being used today. We don't want to create something net new, cause that's really the point in leverage that we get by having these teams, you know, do these things at scale. Another point I'm going to make here is that we've defined the Edge into three segments. One is the near Edge, which is the realm of the-- >> I was going to ask about this, great. >> The telecommunications companies. So those use cases and profiles look very different. They're almost data center lite, right? So you've had regional locations, central offices where they're standing up gear classic to you machines, right? So things you find from HPE, for example. And then once you get on the other side of the access device right? The cable modem, the router, whatever it is you get into what we call the far Edge. And this is where the majority of the use cases reside. This is where the diversity of use cases presents itself as well. >> Also security challenges. >> Security challenges. Yes and we can talk about that following in a moment. And then finally, if you look at that far Edge as a box, right? Think of it as a layer two domain, a network. Inside that location, on that network you'll have industrial IOT devices. Those devices are too small to run a full blown operating system such as Linux and Kubernetes in the stack but they do have software on them, right? So we need to be able to discover those devices and manage those devices and pull data from those devices and do it in a cloud native way. So that's what we called the tiny Edge. And I stole that name from the folks over at Microsoft. Kate and Edrick are are leading a project upstream called Akri, A-K-R-I, and we are very much heavily involved in Akri because it will discover the industrial IOT devices and plug those into a local Kubernetes cluster running at that location. >> And Home Depot would fit into the near edge is that correct? >> Yes. >> Yeah okay. >> So each Home Depot store, just to bring it home, is a far Edge location and they have over 2,600 of these locations. >> So far Edge? You would put far Edge? >> Keith: Far Edge yes. >> Far edge, okay. >> John: Near edge is like Metro. Think of Metro. >> And Teleco, communication, service providers MSOs, multi-service operators. Those guys are-- >> Near Edge. >> The near edge, yes. >> Don't you think, John's been asking all week about machine learning and AI, in that tiny Edge. We think there's going to be a lot of AI influencing. >> Keith: Oh absolutely. >> Real time. And it actually is going to need some kind of lighter weight you know, platform. How do you fit into that? >> So going on this, like this model I just described if you go back and look at the SUSECON 2022 demo keynote that I did, we actually on stage stood up that exact stack. So we had a single Intel nook running SLE Micro as we mentioned earlier, running K3s and we plugged into that device, a USB camera which was automatically detected and it loaded Akri and gave us a driver to plug it into a container. Now, to answer your question, that is the point in time where we bring in the ML and the AI, the inference and the pattern recognition, because that camera when you showed the SUSE plush doll, it actually recognized it and put a QR code up on the screen. So that's where it all comes together. So we tried to showcase that in a complete demo. >> Last week, I was here in Vegas for an event Amazon and AWS put on called re:Mars, machine learning, automation, robotics, and space. >> Okay. >> Kind of but basically for me was an industrial edge show. Cause The space is the ultimate like glam to edge is like, you're doing stuff in space that's pretty edgy so to speak, pun intended. But the industrial side of the Edge is going to, we think, accelerate with machine learning. >> Keith: Absolutely. >> And with these kinds of new portable I won't say flash compute or just like connected power sources software. The industrial is going to move really fast. We've been kind of in a snails pace at the Edge, in my opinion. What's your reaction to that? Do you think we're going to see a mass acceleration of growth at the Edge industrial, basically physical, the physical world. >> Yes, first I agree with your assessment okay, wholeheartedly, so much so that it's my strategy to go after the tiny Edge space and be a leader in the industrial IOT space from an open source perspective. So yes. So a few things to answer your question we do have K3s in space. We have a customer partner called Hypergiant where they've launched satellites with K3s running in space same model, that's a far Edge location, probably the farthest Edge location we have. >> John: Deep Edge, deep space. >> Here at HPE Discover, we have a business unit called SUSE RGS, Rancher Government Services, which focuses on the US government and DOD and IC, right? So little bit of the world that I used to work in my past career. Brandon Gulla the CTO of of that unit gave a great presentation about what we call the tactical Edge. And so the same technology that we're using on the commercial and the manufacturing side. >> Like the Jedi contract, the tactical military Edge I think. >> Yes so imagine some of these military grade industrial IOT devices in a disconnected environment. The same software stack and technology would apply to that use case as well. >> So basically the tactical Edge is life? We're humans, we're at the Edge? >> Or it's maintenance, right? So maybe it's pulling sensors from aircraft, Humvees, submarines and doing predictive analysis on the maintenance for those items, those assets. >> All these different Edges, they underscore the diversity that you were just talking Keith and we also see a new hardware architecture emerging, a lot of arm based stuff. Just take a look at what Tesla's doing at the tiny Edge. Keith Basil, thanks so much. >> Sure. >> For coming on theCube. >> John: Great to have you. >> Grateful to be here. >> Awesome story. Okay and thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for John Furrier. This is day three of HPE Discover 2022. You're watching theCube, the leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Despite fears of inflation, supply chain issues skyrocketing energy and home prices and global instability caused by the Ukraine crisis CIOs and IT buyers continue to expect overall spending to increase more than 6% in 2022. Now, while this is lower than our 8% prediction that we made earlier this year in January, it remains in line with last year's roughly six to 7% growth and is holding firm with the expectations reported by tech executives on the ETR surveys last quarter. Hello and welcome to this week's wiki bond cube insights powered by ETR in this breaking analysis, we'll update you on our latest look at tech spending with a preliminary take from ETR's latest macro drill down survey. We'll share some insights to which vendors have shown the biggest change in spending trajectory. And we'll tap our technical analysts to get a read on what they think it means for technology stocks going forward. The IT spending sentiment among IT buyers remains pretty solid. >> In the past two months, we've had conversations with dozens of CIOs, chief digital officers data executives, IT managers, and application developers, and across the board, they've indicated that for now at least their spending levels remain largely unchanged. The latest ETR drill down data which will share shortly, confirms these anecdotal checks. However, the interpretation of this data it's somewhat nuanced. Part of the reason for the spending levels being you know reasonably strong and holding up is inflation. Stuff costs more so spending levels are higher forcing IT managers to prioritize. Now security remains the number one priority and is less susceptible to cuts, cloud migration, productivity initiatives and other data projects remain top priorities. >> So where are CIO's robbing from Peter to pay Paul to focus on these priorities? Well, we've seen a slight uptick in certain speculative. IT projects being put on hold or frozen for a period of time. And according to ETR survey data we've seen some hiring freezes reported and this is especially notable in the healthcare sector. ETR also surveyed its buyer base to find out where they were adjusting their budgets and the strategies and tactics they were using to do so. Consolidating IT vendors was by far the most cited tactic. Now this makes sense as companies in an effort to negotiate better deals will often forego investments in newer so-called best of breed products and services, and negotiate bundles from larger suppliers. You know, even though they might not be as functional, the buyers >> can get a better deal if they bundle together from one of their larger suppliers. Think Microsoft or a Dell or other, you know, large companies. ETR survey respondents also cited cutting the cloud bill where discretionary spending was in play was another strategy or tactic that they were using. We certainly saw this with some of the largest snowflake customers this past quarter. Where even though they were still growing consumption rapidly certain snowflake customers dialed down their consumption and pushed spending off to future quarters. Now remember in the case of snowflake, anyway, customers negotiate consumption rates and their pricing based on a total commitment over a period of time. So while they may consume less in one quarter, over the lifetime of the contract, snowflake, as do many other cloud companies, have good visibility on the lifetime value of a deal. Now this next chart shows the latest ETR spending expectations among more than 900 respondents. The bars represent spending growth expectations from the periods of December, 2021 that's the gray bars, March of 2022 survey in the blue, and the most recent June data, That's the yellow bar. So you can see spending expectations for the quarter is down slightly in the mid 5% range. But overall for the year expectations remain in the mid 6% range. Now it's down from 8%, 8.3% in December where it looked like 2022 was going to really be a breakout year and have more momentum than even last year. Now, remember this was before Russia invaded Ukraine which occurred in mid-February of this year. So expectations were a little higher. So look, generally speaking CIOs have told us that their CFOs and CEOs have lowered their earnings outlooks and communicated that to Wall Street. They've told us that unless and until these revised forecasts appear at risk, they continue to expect their budget levels to remain pretty constant. Now there's still plenty of momentum and spending velocity on specific vendor platforms. Let's take a look at that. >> This chart shows the companies with the greatest spending momentum as measured by ETRs proprietary net score methodology. Net score essentially measures the net percent of customers spending more on a particular platform. That measurement is shown on the Y axis. The red line there that's inserted that red dotted line at 40%, we consider to be a highly elevated mark. And the green dots are companies in the ETR survey that are near or above that line. The X axis measures the presence in the data set, how much, you know sort of pervasiveness, if you will, is in the data. It's kind of a proxy for market presence. Now, of course we all know Kubernetes is not a company, but it remains an area where organizations are spending lots of resources and time particularly to modernize and mobilize applications. Snowflake remains the company which leads all firms in spending velocity, but as you'll see momentarily, despite its highest position relative to everybody else in the survey, it's still down from its previous levels in the high seventies and low 80% range. AWS is incredibly impressive because it has an elevated level but also a big presence in the data set in the survey. Same with Microsoft, same with ServiceNow which also stands out. And you can see the other smaller vendors like HashiCorp which is increasingly being seen as a strategic cross cloud enabler. They're showing, spending momentum. The RPA vendors you see in there automation anywhere and UI path are in the mix with numerous security companies, CrowdStrike, CyberArk, Netskope, Cloudflare, Tenable Okta, Zscaler Palo Alto networks, Sale Point Fortunate. A big number of cybersecurity firms hovering at or above that 40% mark you can see pure storage remains elevated as do PagerDuty and Coupa. So plenty of good news here, despite the recent tech crash. So that was the good, here's the not so good. So >> there is no 40% line on this chart because all these companies are well below that line. Now this doesn't mean these companies are bad companies. They just don't have the spending velocity of the ones we showed earlier. A good example here is Oracle. Look how they stand out on the X axis with a huge market presence. And Oracle remains an incredibly successful company selling to high end customers and really owning that mission critical data and application space. And remember ETR measures spending activity, but not actual spending dollars. So Oracle is skewed as a result because Oracle customers spend big bucks. But the fact is that Oracle has a large legacy install base that pulls down their growth rates. And that does show up in the ETR survey data. Broadcom is another example. They're one of the most successful companies in the industry, and they're not going after growth at all costs at all. They're going after EBITDA and of course ETR doesn't measure EBIT. So just keep that in mind, as you look at this data. Now another way to look at the data and the survey, is exploring the net score movement over the last period amongst companies. So how are they moving? What's happening to the net score over time. And this chart shows the year over year >> net score change for vendors that participate in at least three sectors within the ETR taxonomy. Remember ETR taxonomy has 12, 15 different segments. So the names above or below the gray dotted line are those companies where the net score has increased or decreased meaningfully. So to the earlier chart, it's all relative, right? Look at Oracle. While having lower net scores has also shown a more meaningful improvement in net score than some of the others, as have SAP and Teradata. Now what's impressive to me here is how AWS, Microsoft, and Google are actually holding that dotted line that gray line pretty well despite their size and the other ironically interesting two data points here are Broadcom and Nutanix. Now Broadcom, of course, as we've reported and dug into, is buying VMware and, and of, of course most customers are concerned about getting hit with higher prices. Once Broadcom takes over. Well Nutanix despite its change in net scores, in a good position potentially to capture some of that VMware business. Just yesterday, I talked to a customer who told me he migrated his entire portfolio off VMware using Nutanix AHV, the Acropolis hypervisor. And that was in an effort to avoid the VTEX specifically. Now this was a smaller customer granted and it's not representative of what I feel is Broadcom's ICP the ideal customer profile, but look, Nutanix should benefit from the Broadcom acquisition. If it can position itself to pick up the business that Broadcom really doesn't want. That kind of bottom of the pyramid. One person's trash is another's treasure as they say, okay. And here's that same chart for companies >> that participate in less than three segments. So, two or one of the segments in the ETR taxonomy. Only three names are seeing positive movement year over year in net score. SUSE under the leadership of amazing CEO, Melissa Di Donato. She's making moves. The company went public last year and acquired rancher labs in 2020. Look, we know that red hat is the big dog in Kubernetes but since the IBM acquisition people have looked to SUSE as a possible alternative and it's showing up in the numbers. It's a nice business. It's going to do more than 600 million this year in revenue, SUSE that is. It's got solid double digit growth in kind of the low teens. It's profitability is under pressure but they're definitely a player that is found a niche and is worth watching. The SolarWinds, What can I say there? I mean, maybe it's a dead cat bounce coming off the major breach that we saw a couple years ago. Some of its customers maybe just can't move off the platform. Constant contact we really don't follow and don't really, you know, focus on them. So, not much to say there. Now look at all the high priced earning stocks or infinite PE stocks that have no E and divide by zero or a negative number and boom, you have infinite PE and look at how their net scores have dropped. We've reported extensively on snowflake. They're still number one as we showed you earlier, net score, but big moves off their highs. Okta, Datadog, Zscaler, SentinelOne Dynatrace, big downward moves, and you can see the rest. So this chart really speaks to the change in expectations from the COVID bubble. Despite the fact that many of these companies CFOs would tell you that the pandemic wasn't necessarily a tailwind for them, but it certainly seemed to be the case when you look back in some of the ETR data. But a big question in the community is what's going to happen to these tech stocks, these tech companies in the market? We reached out to both Eric Bradley of ETR who used to be a technical analyst on Wall Street, and the long time trader and breaking analysis contributor, Chip Symington to get a read on what they thought. First, you know the market >> first point of the market has been off 11 out of the past 12 weeks. And bare market rallies like what we're seeing today and yesterday, they happen from time to time and it was kind of expected. Chair Powell's testimony was broadly viewed as a positive by the street because higher interest rates appear to be pushing commodity prices down. And a weaker consumer sentiment may point to a less onerous inflation outlook. That's good for the market. Chip Symington pointed out to breaking analysis a while ago that the NASDAQ has been on a trend line for the past six months where its highs are lower and the lows are lower and that's a bad sign. And we're bumping up against that trend line here. Meaning if it breaks through that trend it could be a buying signal. As he feels that tech stocks are oversold. He pointed to a recent bounce in semiconductors and cited the Qualcomm example. Here's a company trading at 12 times forward earnings with a sustained 14% growth rate over the next couple of years. And their cash flow is able to support their 2.4, 2% annual dividend. So overall Symington feels this rally was absolutely expected. He's cautious because we're still in a bear market but he's beginning to, to turn bullish. And Eric Bradley added that He feels the market is building a base here and he doesn't expect a 1970s or early 1980s year long sideways move because of all the money that's still in the system. You know, but it could bounce around for several months And remember with higher interest rates there are going to be more options other than equities which for many years has not been the case. Obviously inflation and recession. They are like two looming towers that we're all watching closely and will ultimately determine if, when, and how this market turns around. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to my colleagues, Stephanie Chan, who helps research breaking analysis topics sometimes, and Alex Myerson who is on production in the podcast. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight they help get the word out and do all of our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our Editor in Chief over at siliconangle.com and does some wonderful editing for breaking analysis. Thank you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search breaking analysis podcasts. I publish each week on wikibon.com and Siliconangle.com. And of course you can reach me by email at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me at DVellante comment on my LinkedIn post and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for the CUBE insights powered by ETR. Stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (soft music)

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to Melissa Spain. And we're at cuon cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith Townsend. And my co-host en Rico senior Etti en Rico's really proud of me. I've called him en Rico and said IK, every session, senior it analyst giga, O we're talking to fantastic builders at Cuban cloud native con about the projects and the efforts en Rico up to this point, it's been all about provisioning insecurity. What, what conversation have we been missing? >>Well, I mean, I, I think, I think that, uh, uh, we passed the point of having the conversation of deployment of provisioning. You know, everybody's very skilled, actually everything is done at day two. They are discovering that, well, there is a security problem. There is an observability problem. And in fact, we are meeting with a lot of people and there are a lot of conversation with people really needing to understand what is happening. I mean, in their classroom, what, why it is happening and all the, the questions that come with it. I mean, and, uh, the more I talk with, uh, people in the, in the show floor here, or even in the, you know, in the various sessions is about, you know, we are growing, the, our clusters are becoming bigger and bigger. Uh, applications are becoming, you know, bigger as well. So we need to know, understand better what is happening. It's not only, you know, about cost it's about everything at the >>End. So I think that's a great set up for our guests, max, Provo, founder, and CEO of storm for forge and Patrick Britton, Bergstrom, Brookstone. Yeah, I spelled it right. I didn't say it right. Berg storm CTO. We're at Q con cloud native con we're projects are discussed, built and storm forge. I I've heard the pitch before, so forgive me. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of torn. I have service mesh. What do I need more like, what problem is storm for solving? >>You wanna take it? >>Sure, absolutely. So it it's interesting because, uh, my background is in the enterprise, right? I was an executive at United health group. Um, before that I worked at best buy. Um, and one of the issues that we always had was, especially as you migrate to the cloud, it seems like the CPU dial or the memory dial is your reliability dial. So it's like, oh, I just turned that all the way to the right and everything's hunky Dory. Right. Uh, but then we run into the issue like you and I were just talking about where it gets very, very expensive, very quickly. Uh, and so my first conversations with Matt and the storm forge group, and they were telling me about the product and, and what we're dealing with. I said, that is the problem statement that I have always struggled with. And I wish this existed 10 years ago when I was dealing with EC two costs, right? And now with Kubernetes, it's the same thing. It's so easy to provision. So realistically, what it is is we take your raw telemetry data and we essentially monitor the performance of your application. And then we can tell you using our machine learning algorithms, the exact configuration that you should be using for your application to achieve the results that you're looking for without over provisioning. So we reduce your consumption of CPU of memory and production, which ultimately nine times outta 10, actually I would say 10 out of 10 reduces your cost significantly without sacrificing reliability. >>So can your solution also help to optimize the application in the long run? Because yes, of course, yep. You know, the lowing fluid is, you know, optimize the deployment. Yeah. But actually the long term is optimizing the application. Yes. Which is the real problem. >>Yep. So we actually, um, we're fine with the, the former of what you just said, but we exist to do the latter. And so we're squarely and completely focused at the application layer. Um, we are, uh, as long as you can track or understand the metrics you care about for your application, uh, we can optimize against it. Um, we love that we don't know your application. We don't know what the SLA and SLO requirements are for your app. You do. And so in, in our world, it's about empowering the developer into the process, not automating them out of it. And I think sometimes AI and machine learning sort of gets a bad wrap from that standpoint. And so, uh, we've at this point, the company's been around, you know, since 2016, uh, kind of from the very early days of Kubernetes, we've always been, you know, squarely focused on Kubernetes using our core machine learning, uh, engine to optimize metrics at the application layer, uh, that people care about and, and need to need to go after. And the truth of the matter is today. And over time, you know, setting a cluster up on Kubernetes has largely been solved. Um, and yet the promise of, of Kubernetes around portability and flexibility, uh, downstream when you operationalize the complexity, smacks you in the face. And, uh, and that's where, where storm forge comes in. And so we're a vertical, you know, kind of vertically oriented solution. Um, that's, that's absolutely focused on solving that problem. >>Well, I don't want to play, actually. I want to play the, uh, devils advocate here and, you know, >>You wouldn't be a good analyst if you didn't. >>So the, the problem is when you talk with clients, users, they, there are many of them still working with Java with, you know, something that is really tough. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I mean, we loved all of us loved Java. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe 20 years ago. Yeah. But not anymore, but still they have developers. They are porting applications, microservices. Yes. But not very optimized, etcetera. C cetera. So it's becoming tough. So how you can interact with these kind of yeah. Old hybrid or anyway, not well in generic applications. >>Yeah. We, we do that today. We actually, part of our platform is we offer performance testing in a lower environment and stage. And we like Matt was saying, we can use any metric that you care about and we can work with any configuration for that application. So the perfect example is Java, you know, you have to worry about your heap size, your garbage collection tuning. Um, and one of the things that really struck, struck me very early on about the storm forage product is because it is true machine learning. You remove the human bias from that. So like a lot of what I did in the past, especially around SRE and, and performance tuning, we were only as good as our humans were because of what they knew. And so we were, we kind of got stuck in these paths of making the same configuration adjustments, making the same changes to the application, hoping for different results. But then when you apply machine learning capability to that, the machine will recommend things you never would've dreamed of. And you get amazing results out of >>That. So both me and an Rico have been doing this for a long time. Like I have battled to my last breath, the, the argument when it's a bare metal or a VM. Yeah. Look, I cannot give you any more memory. Yeah. And the, the argument going all the way up to the CIO and the CIO basically saying, you know what, Keith you're cheap, my developer resources expensive, my bigger box. Yep. Uh, buying a bigger box in the cloud to your point is no longer a option because it's just expensive. Talk to me about the carrot or the stick as developers are realizing that they have to be more responsible. Where's the culture change coming from? So is it, that is that if it, is it the shift in responsibility? >>I think the center of the bullseye for us is within those sets of decisions, not in a static way, but in an ongoing way, especially, um, especially as the development of applications becomes more and more rapid. And the management of them, our, our charge and our belief wholeheartedly is that you shouldn't have to choose, you should not have to choose between costs or performance. You should not have to choose where your, you know, your applications live, uh, in a public private or, or hybrid cloud environment. And so we want to empower people to be able to sit in the middle of all of that chaos and for those trade-offs and those difficult interactions to no, no longer be a thing. You know, we're at, we're at a place now where we've done, you know, hundreds of deployments and never once have we met a developer who said, I'm really excited to get outta bed and come to work every day and manually tune my application. <laugh> One side, secondly, we've never met, uh, you know, uh, a manager or someone with budget that said, uh, please don't, you know, increase the value of my investment that I've made to lift and shift us over mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, to the cloud or to Kubernetes or, or some combination of both. And so what we're seeing is the converging of these groups, um, at, you know, their happy place is the lack of needing to be able to, uh, make those trade offs. And that's been exciting for us. So, >>You know, I'm listening and looks like that your solution is right in the middle in application per performance management, observability. Yeah. And, uh, and monitoring. So it's a little bit of all of this. >>So we, we, we, we want to be, you know, the Intel inside of all of that, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, we don't, you know, we often get lumped into one of those categories. It used to be APM a lot. We sometimes get a, are you observability or, and we're really not any of those things in and of themselves, but we, instead of invested in deep integrations and partnerships with a lot of those, uh, with a lot of that tooling, cuz in a lot of ways, the, the tool chain is hardening, uh, in a cloud native and, and Kubernetes world. And so, you know, integrating in intelligently staying focused and great at what we solve for, but then seamlessly partnering and not requiring switching for, for our users who have already invested likely in a APM or observability. >>So to go a little bit deeper. Sure. What does it mean integration? I mean, do you provide data to this, you know, other applications in, in the environment or are they supporting you in the work that you >>Yeah, we're, we're a data consumer for the most part. Um, in fact, one of our big taglines is take your observability and turn it into actionability, right? Like how do you take the it's one thing to collect all of the data, but then how do you know what to do with it? Right. So to Matt's point, um, we integrate with folks like Datadog. Um, we integrate with Prometheus today. So we want to collect that telemetry data and then do something useful with it for you. >>But, but also we want Datadog customers. For example, we have a very close partnership with, with Datadog, so that in your existing data dog dashboard, now you have yeah. This, the storm for capability showing up in the same location. Yep. And so you don't have to switch out. >>So I was just gonna ask, is it a push pull? What is the developer experience? When you say you provide developer, this resolve ML, uh, learnings about performance mm-hmm <affirmative> how do they receive it? Like what, yeah, what's the, what's the, what's the developer experience >>They can receive it. So we have our own, we used to for a while we were CLI only like any good developer tool. Right. Uh, and you know, we have our own UI. And so it is a push in that, in, in a lot of cases where I can come to one spot, um, I've got my applications and every time I'm going to release or plan for a release or I have released, and I want to take, pull in, uh, observability data from a production standpoint, I can visualize all of that within the storm for UI and platform, make decisions. We allow you to, to set your, you know, kind of comfort level of automation that you're, you're okay with. You can be completely set and forget, or you can be somewhere along that spectrum. And you can say, as long as it's within, you know, these thresholds, go ahead and release the application or go ahead and apply the configuration. Um, but we also allow you to experience, uh, the same, a lot of the same functionality right now, you know, in Grafana in Datadog, uh, and a bunch of others that are coming. >>So I've talked to Tim Crawford who talks to a lot of CIOs and he's saying one of the biggest challenges, or if not, one of the biggest challenges CIOs are facing are resource constraints. Yeah. They cannot find the developers to begin with to get this feedback. How are you hoping to address this biggest pain point for CIOs? Yeah. >>Development? >>Just take that one. Yeah, absolutely. That's um, so like my background, like I said, at United health group, right. It's not always just about cost savings. In fact, um, the way that I look about at some of these tech challenges, especially when we talk about scalability, there's kind of three pillars that I consider, right? There's the tech scalability, how am I solving those challenges? There's the financial piece, cuz you can only throw money at a problem for so long. And it's the same thing with the human piece. I can only find so many bodies and right now that pool is very small. And so we are absolutely squarely in that footprint of, we enable your team to focus on the things that they matter, not manual tuning like Matt said. And then there are other resource constraints that I think that a lot of folks don't talk about too. >>Like we were, you were talking about private cloud for instance. And so having a physical data center, um, I've worked with physical data centers that companies I've worked for have owned where it is literally full wall to wall. You can't rack any more servers in it. And so their biggest option is, well, I could spend 1.2 billion to build a new one if I wanted to. Or if you had a capability to truly optimize your compute to what you needed and free up 30% of your capacity of that data center. So you can deploy additional name spaces into your cluster. Like that's a huge opportunity. >>So either out of question, I mean, may, maybe it, it doesn't sound very intelligent at this point, but so is it an ongoing process or is it something that you do at the very beginning mean you start deploying this. Yeah. And maybe as a service. Yep. Once in a year I say, okay, let's do it again and see if something changes. Sure. So one spot 1, 1, 1 single, you know? >>Yeah. Um, would you recommend somebody performance tests just once a year? >>Like, so that's my thing is, uh, previous at previous roles I had, uh, my role was you performance test, every single release. And that was at a minimum once a week. And if your thing did not get faster, you had to have an executive exception to get it into production. And that's the space that we wanna live in as well as part of your C I C D process. Like this should be continuous verification every time you deploy, we wanna make sure that we're recommending the perfect configuration for your application in the name space that you're deploying >>Into. And I would be as bold as to say that we believe that we can be a part of adding, actually adding a step in the C I C D process that's connected to optimization and that no application should be released monitored and sort of, uh, analyzed on an ongoing basis without optimization being a part of that. And again, not just from a cost perspective, yeah. Cost end performance, >>Almost a couple of hundred vendors on this floor. You know, you mentioned some of the big ones, data, dog, et cetera. But what happens when one of the up and comings out of nowhere, completely new data structure, some imaginable way to click to elementry data. Yeah. How do, how do you react to that? >>Yeah. To us it's zeros and ones. Yeah. Uh, and you know, we're, we're, we're really, we really are data agnostic from the standpoint of, um, we're not, we we're fortunate enough to, from the design of our algorithm standpoint, it doesn't get caught up on data structure issues. Um, you know, as long as you can capture it and make it available, uh, through, you know, one of a series of inputs, what one, one would be load or performance tests, uh, could be telemetry, could be observability if we have access to it. Um, honestly the messier, the, the better from time to time, uh, from a machine learning standpoint, um, it, it, it's pretty powerful to see we've, we've never had a deployment where we, uh, where we saved less than 30% while also improving performance by at least 10%. But the typical results for us are 40 to 60% savings and, you know, 30 to 40% improvement in performance. >>And what happens if the application is, I, I mean, yes, Kubernetes is the best thing of the world, but sometimes we have to, you know, external data sources or, or, you know, we have to connect with external services anyway. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. So can you, you know, uh, can you provide an indication also on, on, on this particular application, like, you know, where the problem could >>Be? Yeah, yeah. And that, that's absolutely one of the things that we look at too, cuz it's um, especially when you talk about resource consumption, it's never a flat line, right? Like depending on your application, depending on the workloads that you're running, um, it varies from sometimes minute to minute, day to day, or it could be week to week even. Um, and so especially with some of the products that we have coming out with what we want to do, you know, partnering with, uh, you know, integrating heavily with the HPA and being able to handle some of those bumps and not necessarily bumps, but bursts and being able to do it in a way that's intelligent so that we can make sure that, like I said, it's the perfect configuration for the application regardless of the time of day that you're operating in or what your traffic patterns look like. Um, or you know, what your disc looks like, right? Like cuz with our, our low environment testing, any metric you throw at us, we can, we can optimize for. >>So Madden Patrick, thank you for stopping by. Yeah. Yes. We can go all day. Because day two is I think the biggest challenge right now. Yeah. Not just in Kubernetes, but application replatforming and re and transformation. Very, very difficult. Most CTOs and S that I talked to, this is the challenge space from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith Townsend, along with my host en Rico senior. And you're watching the queue, the leader in high tech coverage.

>>Okay, welcome back everyone. To the cubes coverage here, coop con cloud native con 2021 in person. The Cuba's here. I'm John farrier hosted the queue with Dave Nicholson, my cohost and cloud analyst, man. It's great to be back, uh, in person. We also have a hybrid event. We've got two great guests here, the founders of deep fence, sham, Krista Swami, C co-founder and CTO, and said deep line founder. It's great to have you on. This is a super important topic. As cloud native is crossed over. Everyone's talking about it mainstream, blah, blah, blah. But security is driving the agenda. You guys are in the middle of it. Cutting edge approach and news >>Like, like we were talking about John, we had operating at the intersection of the awesome desk, right? Open source security and cloud cloud native, essentially. Absolutely. And today's a super exciting day for us. We're launching something called track pepper, Apache V2, completely open source. Think of it as an x-ray or MRI scan for your cloud scan, you know, visualize this cloud at scale, all of the modalities, essentially, we look at cloud as a continuum. It's not a single modality it's containers. It's communities, it's William to settle we'll list all of them. Co-exist side by side. That's how we look at it and threat map. It essentially allows you to visualize all of this in real time, think of fed map, but as something that you, that, that takes over the Baton from the CIS unit, when the lift shift left gets over, that's when the threat pepper comes into picture. So yeah, super excited. >>It's like really gives that developer and the teams ops teams visibility into kind of health statistics of the cloud. But also, as you said, it's not just software mechanisms. The cloud is evolving, new sources being turned on and off. No one even knows what's going on. Sometimes this is a really hidden problem, right? Yeah, >>Absolutely. The basic problem is, I mean, I would just talk to, you know, a gentleman 70 of this morning is two 70 billion. Plus public cloud spent John two 70 billion plus even 3 billion, 30 billion they're saying right. Uh, projected revenue. And there is not even a single community tool to visualize all the clouds and all the cloud modalities at scale, let's start there. That's what we sort of decided, you know what, let's start with utilizing everything else there. And then look for known badness, which is the vulnerabilities, which still remains the biggest attack vector. >>Sure. Tell us about some of the hood. How does this all work cloud scale? Is it a cloud service managed service it's code? Take us out, take us through product. Absolutely. >>So, so, but before that, right, there's one small point that Sandeep mentioned. And Richard, I'd like to elaborate here, right? He spoke about the whole cloud spending such a large volume, right? If you look at the way people look at applications today, it's not just single clone anymore. It's multicloud multi regions across diverse plants, right? What does the solution to look at what my interests are to this point? That is a missing piece here. And that is what we're trying to tackle. And that is where we are going as open source. Coming back to your question, right? How does this whole thing work? So we have a completely on-prem model, right? Where customers can download the code today, install it. It can bill, we give binary stool and Shockley just as the exciting announcement that came out today, you're going to see somewhat exciting entrepreneurs. That's going to make a lot more easy for folks out there all day. Yeah, that's fine. >>So how does this, how does this all fit into security as a micro service and your, your vision of that? >>Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I'll tell you, this has to do with the one of the continual conferences I would sort of when I was trying to get an idea, trying to shape the whole vision really? Right. Hey, what about syncretism? Microservice? I would go and ask people. They mentioned that sounds, that makes sense. Everything is becoming a microservice. Really. So what you're saying is you're going to deploy one more microservice, just like I deploy all of my other microservices. And that's going to look after my microservices. That compute back makes logical sense, essentially. That was the Genesis of that terminology. So defense essentially is deployed as a microservice. You go to scale, it's deployed, operated just like you to your microservices. So no code changes, no other tool chain changes. It just is yet another microservice. That's going to look after you talk about >>The, >>So there's one point I would like to add here, which is something very interesting, right? The whole concept of microservice came from, if you remember the memo from Jeff Bezos, that everybody's going to go, Microsoft would be fired. That gave rise to a very conventional unconditionally of thinking about their applications. Our deep friends, we believe that security should be. Now. You should bring the same unconventional way of thinking to security. Your security is all bottom up. No, it has to start popping up. So your applications on microservice, your security should also be a micro. >>So you need a microservice for a microservice security for the security. You're starting to get into a paradigm shift where you starting to see the API economy that bayzos and Amazon philosophy and their approach go Beanstream. So when I got to ask you, because this is a trend we've been watching and reporting on the actual application development processes, changing from the old school, you know, life cycle, software defined life cycle to now you've got machine learning and bots. You have AI. Now you have people are building apps differently. And the speed of which they want to code is high. And then other teams are slowing them down. So I've heard security teams just screw people over a couple of days. Oh my God, I can wait five days. No, it used to be five weeks. Now it's five days. They think that's progress. They want five minutes, the developers in real time. So this is a real deal optimum. >>Well, you know what? Shift left was a good thing. Instill a good thing. It helps you sort of figure out the issues early on in the development life cycle, essentially. Right? And so you started weaving in security early on and it stays with you. The problem is we are hydrating. So frequently you end up with a few hundred vulnerabilities every time you scan oftentimes few thousand and then you go to runtime and you can't really fix all these thousand one. You know? So this is where, so there is a little bit of a gap there. If you're saying, if look at the CIC cycle, the in financial cycle that they show you, right. You've got the far left, which is where you have the SAS tools, snake and all of that. And then you've got the center where, which is where you hand off this to ops. >>And then on the right side, you've got tech ops defense essentially starts in the middle and says, look, I know you've had thousand one abilities. Okay. But at run time, I see only one of those packages is loaded in memory. And only that is getting traffic. You go and fix that one because that's going to heart. You see what I'm saying? So that gap is what we're doing. So you start with the left, we come in in the middle and stay with you throughout, you know, till the whole, uh, she asks me. Yeah, well that >>Th that, that touches on a subject. What are the, what are the changes that we're seeing? What are the new threats that are associated with containerization and kind of coupled with that, look back on traditional security methods and how are our traditional security methods failing us with those new requirements that come out of the microservices and containerized world. And so, >>So having, having been at FireEye, I'll tell you I've worked on their windows products and Juniper, >>And very, very deeply involved in. >>And in fact, you know what I mean, at the company, we even sold a product to Palo Alto. So having been around the space, really, I think it's, it's, it's a, it's a foregone conclusion to say that attackers have become more sophisticated. Of course they have. Yeah. It's not a single attack vector, which gets you down anymore. It's not a script getting somewhere shooting who just sending one malicious HTP request exploiting, no, these are multi-vector multi-stage attacks. They, they evolve over time in space, you know? And then what happens is I could have shot a revolving with time and space, one notable cause of piling up. Right? And on the other side, you've got the infrastructure, which is getting fragmented. What I mean by fragmented is it's not one data center where everything would look and feel and smell similar it's containers and tuberosities and several lessons. All of that stuff is hackable, right? So you've got that big shift happening there. You've got attackers, how do you build visibility? So, in fact, initially we used to, we would go and speak with, uh, DevSecOps practitioner say, Hey, what is the coalition? Is it that you don't have enough scanners to scan? Is it that at runtime? What is the main problem? It's the lack of visibility, lack of observability throughout the life cycle, as well as through outage, it was an issue with allegation. >>And the fact that the attackers know that too, they're exploiting the fact that they can't see they're blind. And it's like, you know what? Trying to land a plane that flew yesterday and you think it's landing tomorrow. It's all like lagging. Right? Exactly. So I got to ask you, because this has comes up a lot, because remember when we're in our 11th season with the cube, and I remember conversations going back to 2010, a cloud's not secure. You know, this is before everyone realized shit, the club's better than on premises if you have it. Right. So a trend is emerged. I want to get your thoughts on this. What percentage of the hacks are because the attackers are lazier than the more sophisticated ones, because you see two buckets I'm going to get, I'm going to work hard to get this, or I'm going to go for the easy low-hanging fruit. Most people have just a setup that's just low hanging fruit for the hackers versus some sort of complex or thought through programmatic cloud system, because now is actually better if you do it. Right. So the more sophisticated the environment, the harder it is for the hackers, AK Bob wire, whatever you wanna call it, what level do we cross over? >>When does it go from the script periods to the, the, >>Katie's kind of like, okay, I want to go get the S3 bucket or whatever. There's like levels of like laziness. Yeah. Okay. I, yeah. Versus I'm really going to orchestrate Spearfish social engineer, the more sophisticated economy driven ones. Yeah. >>I think, you know what, this attackers, the hacks aren't being conducted the way they worked in the 10, five years ago, isn't saying that they been outsourced, there are sophisticated teams for building exploiters. This is the whole industry up there. Even the nation, it's an economy really. Right. So, um, the known badness or the known attacks, I think we have had tools. We have had their own tools, signature based tools, which would know, look for certain payloads and say, this is that I know it. Right. You get the stuff really starts sort of, uh, getting out of control when you have so many sort of different modalities running side by side. So much, so much moving attack surfaces, they will evolve. And you never know that you've scanned enough because you never happened because we just pushed the code. >>Yeah. So we've been covering the iron debt. Kim retired general, Keith Alexander, his company. They have this iron dome concept where there's more collective sharing. Um, how do you see that trend? Because I can almost imagine that the open-source man is going to love what you guys got. You're going to probably feed on it, like it's nobody's business, but then you start thinking, okay, we're going to be open. And you have a platform approach, not so much a tool based approach. So just give me tools. We all know that when does it, we cross over to the Nirvana of like real security sharing. Real-time telemetry data. >>And I want to answer this in two parts. The first part is really a lot of this wisdom is only in the community. It's a tribal knowledge. It's their informal feeds in from get up tickets. And you know, a lot of these things, what we're really doing with threat map, but as we are consolidating that and giving it out as a sort of platform that you can use, I like to go for free. This is the part you will never go to monetize this. And we are certain about disaster. What we are monetizing instead is you have, like I said, the x-ray or MRI scan of the cloud, which tells you what the pain points are. This is feel free. This is public collective good. This is a Patrick reader. This is for free. It's shocking. >>I took this long to get to that point, by the way, in this discussion. >>Yeah, >>This is this timing's perfect. >>Security is collective good. Right? And if you're doing open source, community-based, you know, programs like this is for the collector group. What we do look, this whole other set map is going to be open source. We going to make it a platform and our commercial version, which is called fetch Stryker, which is where we have our core IP, which is basically think about this way, right? If you figured out all the pain points and using tech map, or this was a free, and now you wanted the remedy for that pain feed to target a defense, we targeted quarantining of those statin workloads and all that stuff. And that's what our IP is. What we really do there is we said, look, you figured out the attack surface using tech fabric. Now I'm going to use threat Stryker to protect their attacks and stress >>Free. Not free to, or is that going to be Fort bang? >>Oh, that's for, okay. >>That's awesome. So you bring the goodness to the party, the goods to the party, again, share that collective, see where that goes. And the Stryker on top is how you guys monetize. >>And that's where we do some uniquely normal things. I would want to talk about that. If, if, if, if you know public probably for 30 seconds or so unique things we do in industry, which is basically being able to monitor what comes in, what goes out and what changes across time and space, because look, most of the modern attacks evolve over time and space, right? So you go to be able to see things like this. Here's a party structure, which has a vulnerability threats. Mapper told you that to strike. And what it does is it tells you a bunch of stress has a vulnerable again, know that somebody is sending a Melissa's HTP request, which has a malicious payload. And you know what, tomorrow there's a file system change. And there is outbound connection going to some funny place. That is the part that we're wanting this. >>Yeah. And you give away the tool to identify the threats and sell the hammer. >>That's giving you protection. >>Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. I love you guys love this product. I love how you're doing it. I got to ask you to define what is security as a microservice. >>So security is a microservice is a deployment modality for us. So defense, what defense has is one console. So defense is currently self posted by the customers within the infrastructure going forward. We'll also be launching a SAS version, the cloud version of it. But what happens as part of this deployment is they're running the management console, which is the gooey, and then a tiny sensor, which is collecting telemetric that is deployed as a microservice is what I'm saying. So you've got 10 containers running defenses level of container. That's, that's an eight or the Microsoft risk. And it utilizes, uh, EDP F you know, for tracing and all that stuff. Yeah. >>Awesome. Well, I think this is the beginning of a shift in the industry. You start to see dev ops and cloud native technologies become the operating model, not just dev dev ops are now in play and infrastructure as code, which is the ethos of a cloud generation is security is code. That's true. That's what you guys are doing. Thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. Absolutely breaking news here in the queue, obviously great stuff. Open source continues to grow and win in the new model. Collaboration is the cube bringing you all the cover day one, the three days. I'm Jennifer, your host with Dave Nicholson. Thanks for watching.