>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hello and welcome back to the cubes Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. Um, John for your host with a cube virtual were not there in person, but we're gonna do it our job with the best remote we possibly can. Where? Wall to wall coverage on the AWS reinvent site as well as on demand on the Cube. Three new 3 65 platform. We got some great power panel analysts here to dig in and discuss Partner Day for a W S what it means for the customer. What it means for the enterprise, the buyer, the people trying to figure out who to buy from and possibly new partners. How can they re engineer and reinvent their company to partner better with Amazon, take advantage of the benefits, but ultimately get more sales? We got Tim Crawford, star Beat Joel and Day Volonte, Friends of the Cube. We all know him on Twitter, You guys, the posse, the Cube policy. Thanks for coming on. I'm sure it's good guys entertaining and we're >>hanging out drinking beer. Oh, my God. That'd be awesome. You guys. >>Great to have you on. I wanted to bring you on because it's unique. Cross section of perspectives. And this isn't This is from the end user perspective. And, Tim, you've been talking about the c x o s for years. You expert in this? Sorry. You're taking more from a cloud perspective. You've seen the under the hood. What's happening? Let's all put it together. If your partner Okay, first question to the group. I'm a partner. Do I win with Amazon, or do I lose with Amazon? First question. >>Yeah, I'll jump in. I'll say, you know, regardless you win, you win with Amazon. I think there's a lot of opportunity for partners with Amazon. Um, you have to pick your battles, though. You have to find the right places where you can carve out a space that isn't too congested but also isn't really kind of fettered with a number of incumbents. And so if you're looking at the enterprise space, I think that there is a ton of potential because, let's face it, >>Amazon >>doesn't have all of the services packaged in a way that the enterprise can consume. And I think that leaves a lot of fertile ground for s eyes and I SVS to jump in and be able to connect those dots so I'd say it's win, win >>start be if you're like a so cohesively onstage. Jackson's coming out talking about China, the chips and data. If you're like a vendor and I s V you're a startup or your company trying to reinvent How do you see Amazon as a partner? >>Yeah, I see Amazon as a big market for me. You know, it increased my sort of tam, if you will. Uh, the one big sort off trend is that the lines between technology providers and service providers are blurred. Actually, it's flipping. I believe it will flip at some time. We will put consume technology from service providers, and they are becoming technology providers. Actually, they're not just being pipe and power kind of cloud. They are purely software, very high sort of highly constructed machinery, if you will. Behind the scenes with software. >>That's >>what Amazon is, uh, big machine. If you are, and you can leverage that and then you can help your customers achieve their business called as a partner. I think's the women and the roll off. Actually, Assize is changing, I believe a size. Well, I thought they were getting slow, sidetracked by the service providers. But now they have to actually change their old the way they they used to get these, you know, shrink wrap software, and then install and configure and all that stuff. Now it's in a cloud >>on >>they have to focus a little more on services, and and some of the s eyes are building tools for multi cloud consumption and all that. So things are changing under under this whole big shift to go out. >>I mean, I think if you're in S I and you're lifting and shifting, you make a few bucks and helping people do that deal with the tech. But I think we're the rial. Money is the business transformation, and you find the technology is there, it's it's another tool in the bag. But if you can change your operating model, that's gonna drive telephone numbers to the bottom line. That's a boardroom discussion, and that's where the real dollars are for s eyes. That's like that's why guys like Accent you're leading leading into the cloud Big time >>e think I think you're absolutely right, David. I think that's that's one aspect that we have to kind of call out is you can be one of those partners that is focused on the transaction and you'll be successful doing that. But you're absolutely right. If you focus on the long game. I think that is just like I said, completely fertile ground. And there are a lot of opportunities because historically Amazon was ah was a Lego parts, uh, type of cloud provider, right? They provided you with the basic building blocks, which is great for Web scale and startups not so good for enterprise. And so now Amazon is starting to put together in package part, so it's more consumable by enterprises. But you still need that help. And as Sarpy just mentioned, you also have to consider that Amazon is not the only aspect that you're gonna be using. You're gonna be using other providers to. And so I think this again is where partners they pick a primary, and then they also bring in the others where appropriate. >>All right, I want to get into this whole riff. I have a cherry chin on day one. Hey, came on the special fireside chat with me and we talked about, um, cloud errors before cloud Amazon. And now I'll call postcode because we're seeing this kind of whole new, you know, in the cloud kind of generation. And so he said, OK, this pre cloud you had Amazon generation, whereas lift and shift. Ah, lot of hybrid And you have everything is in the cloud like a snowflake kind of thing. And he kind of call it the reptiles versus the amphibians you're on. See your inland, your hybrid, and then you're you're in the water. I mean, so So he kind of went on, Took that another level, meaning that. Okay, this is always gonna be hybrid. But there's a unique differentiation for being all in the cloud. You're seeing different patterns. Amazon certainly has an advantage. See, Dev Ops guru, that's just mining the data of their entire platform and saying Okay, Yeah, do this. There's advantages for being in the cloud that aren't available. Hybrid. So amphibian on land and sea hybrid. And then in the cloud. How do you guys see that if you're a partner. You wanna be on the new generation. What's the opportunity to capture value? He has hybrid certainly coexist. But in the new era, >>remember Scott McNealy used to talk about car makers and car dealers. And of course, Sun's gone. But he used to say, We want to be a carmaker. Car dealers. They got big houses and big boats, but we're gonna be a carmaker. Oh, I think it's some similarities here. I mean, there's a lot of money to be made as a as a car dealer. But you see, companies like Dell, H P E. You know, they want to be carmakers. Obviously Google Microsoft. But there are gonna be a lot of successful really big carmakers in this game. >>Yeah, I believe I believe I always call it Amazon Is the makers cloud right, So they are very developer friendly. They were very developer friendly for startups. Uh, a stem said earlier, but now they are very developer, friendly and operations friendly. Now, actually, in a way for enterprises, I believe, and that the that well, the jerry tend to sort of Are you all all in cloud are sitting just in the dry land. Right now, I think every sort off organization is in a different sort off mature, at different maturity level. But I think we're going all going towards a technology consumption as a service. Mostly, I think it will be off Prem. It can be on Prem in future because off age and all that. And on that note, I think EJ will be dominated by Tier one cloud providers like crazy people who think edge will be nominally but telcos and all that. I think they're just, uh, if >>I made Thio, if I may interject for a second for the folks watching, that might not be old enough to know who Scott McNealy is. He's the founder of Sun Microsystems, which was bought by Oracle years ago. Yeah, basically, because many computer, there's a lot of young kids out there that even though Scott McNealy's But remember, >>do your homework, Scott, you have to know who Scott Scott McNealy >>also said, because Bill Gates was dominant. Microsoft owns the tires and the gas to, and they want to own the road. So remember Microsoft was dominating at that time. So, Tim Gas data is that I mean, Amazon might have everything there. >>I was gonna go back to the to the comment. You know, McNeely came out with some really, really good analogies over his tenure. Um, it's son and you know, son had some great successes. But unfortunately, Cloud is not as simplistic as buying a car and having the dealership and the ecosystem of gas and tires. And the rest you have to think about the toll journey. And that journey is incredibly complicated, especially for the enterprise that's coming from legacy footprints, monolithic application stacks and trying to understand how to make that transition. It's almost it's almost, in a way mawr analogous to your used to riding a bike, and now you're gonna operate a semi. And so how do you start to put all of the pieces into place to be able to make that transition? And it's not trivial. You have to figure out how your culture changes, how your processes changes. There are a lot of connected parts. It's not a simple as the ecosystem of tires and gas. We have to think about how that data stream fits in with other data streams where analytics are gonna be done. What about tying back to that system of record that is going to stay on the legacy platform. Oh, and by the way, some of that has to still stay on Prem. It can't move to the cloud yet. So we have this really complicated, diverse environment that we have to manage, and it's only getting more complicated. And I think that's where the opportunity comes in for the size and s visas. Step into that. Understand that journey, understand the transitions. I don't believe that enterprises, at least in the near term, let alone short term, will be all in cloud. I think that that's more of a fantasy than reality. There is a hybrid state that that is going to be transitory for some period of time, and that's where the big opportunity is. >>I think you're right on time. I think just to double down on that point, just to bring that to another level is Dave. Remember back in the days when PCs where the boom many computers with most clients there was just getting started? There was a whole hype cycle on hard drives, right? Hard drives were the thing. Now, if you look out today, there's more. Observe, ability, startups and I could count, right? So to Tim's point, this monolithic breakdown and component izing decomposing, monolithic APs or environments with micro services is complex. So, to me, the thing that I see is that that I could relate to is when I was breaking in in the eighties, you had the mainframes. Is being the youngun I'm like, Okay, mainframes, old monolithic client server is a different paradigm thing. You had, uh, PCs and Internet working. I think all that change is happening so fast right now. It's not like over 10 years to Tim's points, like mainframes to iPhones. It's happening in like three years. Imagine crunching all that complexity and change down to a short window. I think Amazon has kind of brought that. I'm just riffing on that, But >>yeah, you're absolutely right, John. But I think there's another piece and we can use a very specific example to show this. But another piece that we have to look at is we're trying to simplify that environment, and so a good place to simplify that is when we look at server lis and specifically around databases, you know, historically, I had to pick the database architecture that the applications would ride on. Then I have to have the infrastructure underneath and manage that appropriately so that I have both the performance a swell, a security as well as architecture. Er and I have to scale that as needed. Today, you can get databases of service and not have to worry about the underpinnings. You just worry about the applications and how those data streams connect to other data streams. And so that's the direction that I think things were going is, and we see this across the enterprise we're looking for. Those packaged package might be a generalized term, but we're looking for um, or packaged scenario and opportunity for enterprises rather than just the most basic building blocks. We have to start putting together the preformed applications and then use those as larger chunks. And >>this is the opportunity for a size I was talking before about business transformation. If you take, take Tim's database example, you don't need somebody anymore. Toe, you know, set up your database to tune it. I mean, that's becoming autonomous. But if you think about the way data pipelines work in the way organizations are structured where everything because it goes into this monolithic data lake or and and And it's like generic content coming in generic data where the business owner has to get in line and beg a data scientist or quality engineered or thio ingest a new data source. And it's just like the old data warehouse days where I think there's tremendous opportunities for s eyes to go in a completely re architect. The data model. Sergeant, This is something you and I were talking about on Twitter. It's That's why I like what snowflakes doing. It's kind of a AWS is trying to do with lasted glue views, but there's a whole business transformation opportunity for s eyes, which I just think is huge. Number l >>e all talk. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, >>I think we >>all talk, but we know we all agree on one thing that the future is hybrid for at least for next. You know, 10 years, if not more. Uh, hybrid is hard. The data proximity is, uh, very important. That means Leighton see between different workloads, right? That's super important. And I talk about this all the time and almost in every conversation I have about about. It's just scenario, is that there three types of applications every every enterprise systems or fractured systems, systems of engagement and the systems of innovation and my theory of cloud consumption tells me that sooner or later, systems off record. We'll move into SAS SAS world. That's that's how I see it. There's no other way around, I believe, and the systems off engagement or systems off differentiation something and call it. They will leverage a lot off platforms, the service and in that context context, I have said it many times the to be a best of the breed platform. As a service, you have to be best off the breed, um, infrastructure as a service provider. And that's Amazon. And that is that's also a zero to a certain extent, and then and and Google is trying to do that, too. So the feature sort off gap between number one cloud and two and three is pretty huge. I believe I think Amazon is doing great data democratization through several less. I just love serving less for that Several things over. Unless there is >>a winning formula is no doubt about several times I totally agree. But I think one of the things that I miss it has done is they've taken server lists. They brought their putting all the I as and the chips, and they're moving all the value up to the service layer, which gives them the advantage over others. Because everyone else is trying to compete down here. They're gonna be purpose built. If you look what Apple is doing with the chips and what the Amazon is doing, they're gonna kind of have this chip to chip scenario and then the middle. Where in between is the container ization, the micro services and Lambda? So if you're a developer, you approach is it's programmable at that point that could that could be a lock spec. I think for Amazon, >>it absolutely could be John. But I think there's another aspect here that we have to touch on, especially as we think about partners and where the opportunities come in. And that is that We often talk about non cloud to cloud right, how to get from on Prem to cloud. But the piece that you also have thio bring into the conversation is Theo edge to cloud continuum and So I think if you start to look at some of the announcements this week from AWS, you start looking at some of the new instance types uh, that are very ai focused. You look at the two new form factors for outposts, which allows you to bring cloud to a smaller footprint within an on premise premises, situation, uh, different local zones. And then Thea other piece that I think is really interesting is is their announcements around PCs and eks anywhere being able to take cloud in kubernetes, you know, across the board. And so the challenge here is, as I mentioned earlier, complexity is paramount. It's concern for enterprises just moving to cloud. You start layering in the edge to cloud continuum, and it just it gets exponentially more complicated. And so Amazon is not going to be the one to help you go through that. Not because they can't, but frankly, just the scale of help that is going to be needed amongst enterprises is just not there. And so this is really where I think the opportunity lies for the s eyes and I SVS and partners. You >>heard how Jassy defined hybrid John in the article that you wrote when you did your one on one with him, Tim and the in the analyst call, you answered my question and then I want to bring in Antonio near his comment. But Jassy basically said, Look, we see the cloud bring We're gonna bring a W s to the edge and we see data centers. This is another edge node and San Antonio Neary after HP is pretty good quarter uh came out and said, Well, we heard the public cloud provider talking about hybrid welcome, you know? >>Yeah, they were going and then getting here jumped on that big time. But we'll be looking hybrid. Tim nailed The complexity is the is the evil is friction is a friction area. If the complexity could be mastered by the edge provider closest to the customer, that's gonna be valuable, um, for partners. And then we can do that. Amazon's gonna have to continue to remove the friction and putting that together, which is why I'm nervous about their channel partners. Because if I'm a partner, I asked myself, How do I make money with Amazon? Right? At the end of the day, it's money making right. So how can I be successful? Um, not gonna sell more in the marketplace. Will the customer consumer through there? Is it friction or is a complex So this notion of complexity and friction becomes a double edged sword Tim on both sides. So we have five minutes left. Let's talk about the bottom side Complexity, >>friction. So you're absolutely right, John. And you know, the other thing that that I would say is for the partner, you have to look beyond what Amazon is selling today. Look at where the customers are going. And you know, David, I think you and I were both in an analyst session with Andy Jassy several years ago where one of the analysts asked the question. So you know, what's your perspective on Hybrid Cloud? In his response, candidly was, while we have this particular service and really, what he was talking to is a service that helps you on board to Amazon's public cloud. There was there was not an acknowledgment of hybrid cloud at the time, But look at how things have changed just in a short few years, and I understand where Jassy is coming from, but this is just exemplifies the fact that if you're a partner, you have to look beyond what Amazon is saying and think toe how the customer is evolving, how the enterprise is evolving and get yourself ahead of them. That will position you best for both today. And as you're building for the future. >>That's a great point, Dave. Complexity on buying. I'm a customer. You can throw me a marketplace all you want, but if I'm not gonna be tied into my procurement, how I'm consuming technology. Tim's point. Amazon isn't the only game in town. I got other suppliers. >>Yeah, well, certainly for some technology suppliers, they're basically could bring their on prem estate if it's big enough into the cloud. Uh, you know what is big enough? That's the big question here. You know, our guys like your red hats big enough. Okay, we know that Nutanix pure. They're sort of the next layer down. Can they do? They have enough of a customer base that they could bring into the cloud, create that abstraction layer, and then you got the born in the cloud guy Snowflake, Colombia or two good examples. Eso They've got the technology partners and then they're the size and consultants. And again, I see that is the really big opportunity is 10 points out? Amazon is acknowledging that hybrid Israel in in a newly defined way, they're going out to the edge, find you wanna call data center the edge. How are they going to support those installations? How are they gonna make sure that they're running properly? That they're connected to the business process? Those air That's s I whitespace. Huge. >>Guys, we have to wrap it up right now. But I just end on, you know, we'll get everyone go A little lightning around quick soundbite on the phrase with him, which stands for what's in it from me. So if I'm a partner, I'm a customer. I look at Amazon, I think. What's in it for me? Yeah. What a za customer like what do I get out of this? >>Yeah, having done, like more than 100 data center audits, and I'm seeing what mess up messes out there and having done quite a few migrations to cloud migrations of the messy messages piece, right? And it doesn't matter if you're migrating 10% or 20 or 30 it doesn't matter that how much you're migrating? It's a messy piece, and you cannot do with our partners that work. Actually, you need that. Know how you need to infuse that that education into into your organization, how to consume cloud, how toe make sense of it, how you change your processes and how you train your people. So it touches all the products, people and processes. So on three years, you gotta have partners on your side to make it >>so Hey, I'll go quick. And, Tim, you give you the last word. Complexity is cash. Chaos is cash. Follow the complexity. You'll make cash. >>Yeah, you said it, David. I think anyway, that you can help an enterprise simplify. And if you're the enterprise, if you're the customer, look for those partners. They're gonna help you simplify the journey over time. That's where the opportunity really lies. >>Okay, guys, Expert power panel here on Cuba live program, part of AWS reinvent virtual coverage, bringing you all the analysis from the experts. Digital transformations here. What's in it for me is a partner and customer. Help me make some money, master complexity and serve my customer. Mister Cube. Thanks for watching >>que Yeah, from around the globe. It's the cute

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies Everyone welcome back to the cubes Coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience I'm John for your host of the Cube Cube. Virtual. We're not in person this year were remote We're doing The interviews were not face to face. So thanks for watching two great guests to talk about the Dell Technology Storage and data protection for the VM Ware environments got Caitlin Gordon, vice President, product management, Dale Technologies and Leak as well. Vice president of Cloud Platform Business Unit, also known as CPB. You for VM where Lee and Cable in Great to see you both. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks for having me >>s So what? What a crazy year. We're not in person. Usually the the events Awesome. VM world recently went on and then you guys have the same situation role online now and it's >>really kind >>of highlighted the customer environments of cloud needed. But I've been saying this on all my reports and all the Cube interviews that the executives who are in charge and now saying, Look at our modern APS have to be cloud native because the obvious benefits are there and container ization has become mainstream. But yet I d c still forecast about 15% of enterprises are still fully containing rise, with a huge amount of growth coming around the corner. So you're seeing this mature market where containers are validated, they're being put into production. People are now moving hard core with containers. And you have the kubernetes. I gotta ask you, Li, I'm Caitlin. What does this mean for the customers? Are they getting harder pressure points to do things faster? What does it all mean for the customer? >>Yeah, I'll start. Only you can add to it. I mean, I think what we see is the trends that were already happening of now. Accelerated and modern APs were kind of the top of the priority list, but now it has is really expedited. But at the same time, traditional applications haven't gone anywhere. So there's this dichotomy that a lot of I t is dealing with of head Oh, accelerate those modern APs while also streamlining and simplifying my environment for my traditional laps. And not only do I need to the right infrastructure to have that for production workloads, modern, traditional, but also form a data protection standpoint. How to ensure that those are all secure and do all of that in a way that simplifies life for whether it's the data protection admin, the BM admin or even the developer right, all of the different folks involved and needing to make all of their lives simpler has just really exacerbated a challenge and really given us a lot of opportunity to try to solve that for customers together. >>Lee, What's your take on the landscape out there? >>Yeah, I'd emphasized that speed really matters today, right? That we're really looking at. How do you go and deploy new applications faster, right? New ways to get engaged with customers. I mean, it's not happening physically anymore. So how is it happening while it's happening largely through applications? And so as you now basically develop new applications more quickly, containers are a way to speed the pace of applications, and the theme that you know we continue to drive home is that that means infrastructure has to respond more quickly, and it means that for the teams that are managing infrastructure, it really helps if you have a consistent model where you can get mawr done with the same teams and leverage all the experience you have, as well as the security and infrastructure resiliency model that we're bringing together to our customers. >>This brings up the real question, and if this comes up, kind of you see more of the executive level like we need to have a modern application direction. They'll go. Everyone goes, Yeah, of course. Thumbs up. Then they go Try to make that a reality because even though Dev ops and Infrastructures Code is still the viable path, it's hard. It's like Caitlin, we're talking about EJ to core Data center hybrid the multi cloud. There's a lot going on under the hood there. So you guys are doing a lot of stuff together. VM Ware and Dell Technologies. What's the solution for customers? They gotta move faster. As lead pointed out, Caitlin, how are you guys working together to make that infrastructure more modern, faster, programmable and reliable, >>and make it simpler for the customers right? I think it really comes down to one of the most powerful things about the partnership is that from the dull technology standpoint, we have really a plethora of different solutions to support your VM or environment. Whether it's a three tier architecture with Power Edge power store or leveraging the X rail. Or very commonly, it's gonna be both of those. You have the right infrastructure to support the production workloads and have a consistent operating model between them leveraging devils and primary storage side and all the integrations we have with the ex rail. And then we have with power, protect data manager Great integrations in some recent enhancements that make that even better and are now able to protect Tan Xue, protect the VCF management domain and not only have the storage, but also the protection for that environment. But do it in a way that supports what the V A madman needs and also gives that consistent protection, consistent storage, consistent operating model for the rest of I T. And at the same time you're enabling the developers to move faster. >>Lee, You guys have been doing a lot of joint development, and we've been covering a lot of the news VM world. Ah, lot of joint engineering, a lot of joint integrations. You guys have been collaborating with Dell Technologies for a long time. Also, the relationship. Where is that Today? Can you expand on that a little bit and take a minute to explain the joint >>collaboration? I'll start with the fact that you know, good marketing is really easy when you have great engineering. And so the work that we're doing together, like between our companies. Now we have a lot to talk about, right? E mean the work scaling mentioned right around Devil's integration, for example, on power Max right on da npower store, right? I mean, you start looking at the integration work that we're doing together. It means that customers are getting the benefits of the joint integration work and testing right that comes and so you're guaranteed out of the box toe work. Also, you know, don't forget that contain owners and all of the things we're doing around containers. It's basically designed thio accommodate the fact that containers air spun up more quickly or destroyed more quickly, their shared across the hybrid cloud more frequently and without an inherent security model and built in data protection. It's really hard to go and see how you can deploy these with the enterprise resilience that's demanded at enterprise scale. And so that's what we're doing together, right? And, you know, we build great software, Uh, but without great hardware partnerships, it's one hand clapping, right. It's about getting our teams together, right? That really makes it sing at the customer level. >>You know, I think that's a really example of the business. Performance results have come in Vienna, where you guys were doing a great job. Go way back to the years ago when Pat and Raghu we're talking with from Amazon and all. Since then, it's been joint development, join integrations, and that's a great business model for you. And so, Caitlyn, I wanna get back to you. Because at VMRO we covered Project Monterey, the new initiative for the anywhere but a year before they had Project Pacific that came toe life with product results. Tan Xue specifically, you guys have the power protect data manager that we talked about in the summer, but now for Tan Xue supported and Tan Xue environments that super relevant, can you share any updates on your end on the power protect Data Manager and Tan Xue? >>Yeah, I li I couldn't agree more that great engineering mix our jobs a lot more fun and a whole lot easier. So we've been really lucky. And the partnership we've had has really never been stronger. So yeah, but the most recent release of power protect Data Manager introduces the support for that tan xue protection. It also introduces really important things like storage, storage based policy management. So in in biosphere, when you set up a storage policy, you have data protection as part of that and you have the integration with power protect data Manager. So you're able to automatically protect new VM that are created by that storage policy of being applied. >>But >>at the same time, it's also being tracked in power. Protect Data Manager. So you have that consistency across enabling your vitamins and enabling your data protection your i t. Team. To keep track of that, we also have ah tech preview that we did at VM World about how we're working as from Dell technology standpoint to innovate around. How do you protect some of these VMS that are so large and so mission critical that you need to be able to protect them in a new and innovative way that doesn't disrupt the business. And we did a tech preview of that, and it's something you'll hear more about from us, too. But it's PM traditionally would be in this category of unprotected ble because of the impact it could have on the environment and how we're really looking to do that in a more efficient and intelligent way. So we can actually protect those be EMS. And there's there's really a whole lot more. When you talk about objects, scale and everything else that we've done, it's really exciting. And you don't think Lee and I have ever talked as much as we do now. Ah, and it's been a lot of a lot of fun. >>It's been great following both of you guys on the keep interviews over the years. The success in the vision We had early conversations about what the plans where it's kind of all playing out. So I want to congratulate both of you of VM Ware Adele Technology. So good job going forward. The collaboration. I want to get to that in a second, you'll into it. But Caitlin Lee, I want to get your thoughts because one of the big themes this year besides covert and all the issues that that's highlighting. But in the cloud world, automation has been the number one conversation we've been hearing, and with that you got machine learning all the tech around that as you abstract away. The complexity of the infrastructure to make the modern APS automation has been great. The business cross connect is everything is a service we're seeing. This is the big wave coming. Could you guys share your vision on how all this stuff you mentioned V balls and all objects scale all these things? There's a >>lot of >>plumbing underneath and a lot of tooling, a lot of part piece parts. If that gets programmable, >>automation >>kicks in, which then enables everything is the service because you guys both share your vision of what that means in terms of what's going to change and what would it impact the customer? >>Yeah, and it's very relevant for this week, right? Dell Technologies world. That's a big part of what we've announced this week in our commitment to really bringing our portfolio as a service, and it's really interesting, especially for folks like Lee and I, who have been doing kind of mawr product marking and talking about speeds and feeds and thinking about how you make the product life simpler. And how do you automate that? Have the intelligence built in things like Biaro have been such an important part of that, especially with power store coming to market. But if you think about where that leads us, actually changes everything, which is when you have everything as a service and we're really delivering outcomes to our customers and no longer products. That automation is actually just a important and maybe even more important. But it's not the end user that cares about it directly is actually us, because as Dell Technologies, we become the ones managing that infrastructure, owning that infrastructure and the more automation we can bring in, the more intelligence we can build them for ourselves. The more insights we can give to our customers, the better that service can become. And it's really a flip from how we've always been thinking about and really rolling out automation. It's not actually about enabling our end users to do anything. It's actually about enabling them to not worry about any of it, but enable our own organization to support their outcomes better. So it really changes everything. >>Lee, what's your thoughts on this? Everything you've got, V Sphere V Center. You've got all the storage you got all the back up. All this stuff has to be automated. Makes sense. But as a service, how does that impact your world? >>You know, it really does. When you think about the VMRO Cloud Foundation, right, which is the integration of all of our V sphere with Visa. And with these, you know, our NSX products that will be realized. Management suite. Tom Zoo now, right, All of this pulled together. One of things that's interesting is when you go to the public cloud, we have some experience now where we always deliver that full stack together. And what that does is it frees up customers. Thio, go on, focus on the applications, I think and stop looking down the infrastructure. Start looking up at the APS. And so we're offering and bringing that same level of experience to the on premises data centers. And now bridging that across the hybrid cloud that all of a sudden gives you this sense that Hey, I'm future ready. No, matter where I am today. If I'm thinking about the hybrid cloud, I could go on move there, right. And with our partnership with Dell Technologies, there's such a great opportunity to bridge that uniquely, by the way across all of my on premises infrastructure, including common policy based management, back into storage through RV Valls efforts, right and then back in through objects scale right into objects based, uh, applications and through our DP efforts to data protection efforts, then back into, like, date full data protection. And so what you get now is we're helping customers realize that I got this. I could take new Cooper navies orchestrated applications and I could make them work and do it with the same operational model that I have today. Start spending more time on the applications, less time, basically configuring and managing underlying infrastructure. >>Caitlin you mentioned that earlier at the top of the segment, ease of use, making it easier, simpler, great stuff on the on on the future. Lee, I gotta ask you about Project Monterey. We did a lot of coverage on VM World on silicon angle in the Cube. I love how this comes out. It's always, You know, the brain trust that VM Ware lays out the future, they fill it in throughout the year, expect to see some meat on the bone there. But what is that gonna do from for new capabilities and how with Dell Technologies? Because, um, it's end to end, right this Michael Dell and I talked, I think, two years ago, a Dell Tech world. And then last year, he hit the point home hard and to end with Dell Technologies. It kind of feels like it's gonna be a good fit. Could you share how that Monterey project fits in with Dell Technologies? >>Yeah. We're so pleased to be showing this together with Dell Technologies at the VM World to showcase this new idea that you could basically go on, start offloading CPUs and using smart knicks as a way to basically now provide, um or let's call it a, You know, a architecture that allows you to, uh, be responsive to new application needs. So let me talk a little bit about that. So when we opened up Tansu, right, we got this complete inflow pouring of new container base kubernetes orchestrated APS. So what? We found was, Hey, they're driving a lot of CPU needs their driving a lot of scale out security needs for things like distributed firewalls. And so we started looking at this, and what's clear is we need to basically use the CPU very judiciously, So it's basically reserved for the APS. And so what we're doing now is we're basically saying there's an opportunity for us to go in, offload the CPU for things that look more like infrastructure, including S X, I and other things. And at the same time, then we could go and work together with Dell Technologies to be the deployment vehicle. And so, just like Project Pacific, which was going broad, if you will, this project moderate, which is going deep like the canyon, John not far from here, um is, you know, a source of all new discovery right where we'll be working together and over time, just like the Project Pacific name faded to black and became product Tan Xue vcf with Tom juvie sphere. With Hangzhou, we'll see that Project Monterey will evolve into new products coming together with Dell Technologies. >>Caitlin, can you elaborate on Take a min, explain the product how this renders into products because I can also imagine just the benefits just from a security standpoint. Efficiency. If the platform, um, there's a range of things, could you take a minute to >>explain the >>impact on products? >>Yeah, I think you'll hear a lot more about it, but we're obviously excited to be partners on this is Well, and I think it's It's just another example of the more intelligent the infrastructure can become than the rest of the entire I T organization can run more efficiently and that that can come in the form of the A. I built into power, Max, that can come in the form of the evils that we have both in Power Max and Power Store that can come in the form of even just the fact that we have now built a fully containerized S three compatible objects or platform called objects scale which we have no in early access. Um, that can run on the V sand data persistence platform, and it just gives you the ability to leverage this all of the right technology. And we can continue to really partner on that. I think Project Monterey really opens up even more opportunities to do that, and you'll certainly hear more from us on that in the future. >>I >>mean, you got compression, you got encryption. A lot of benefits across the board. Great to have you guys both on and your graduation. The great event. Final question for both of you, talk about this has been a crazy year. We're not face to face, so everything will be online. What should customers and partners and people watching know about the relationship between VM Ware and Dell Technologies this year? What's the big message to take away? What should people walk away with and and think about? >>I think it's It's never been stronger than ever, uh, than it's been than it is right now. We have never had >>more >>breath and more depth of integration. I think that the partnership on the engineering level, on the product management level on the marketing level, we have really never been in a better place. And you know what? What? My team is really enjoyed with VM world season and you're coming up on Deltek. World season is we've really enjoyed the fact that we've had so much richness >>of >>that integration to talk >>about, and >>we also know there's even more coming. So I, you know, from from my standpoint, if we really feel it and probably the best and most rewarding time we hear about that, is when we bring new things into market, we hear that back. And when Power Store came into the market and over the past few right kind of first months in market, one of the most resounding feedback that has come out as one of the most differentiated parts is that it? It's so incredibly integrated with VM ware. But we've even gotten questions from analysts asking, you know, did you purposely make it feel like you are really working similarly to a B M or environment? And you know what? That just shows how closely we have been working as organizations is that it comes a very seamless experience for our customers. >>Lee Final Word. >>What >>should people walk away with this year on the relationship between Be and we're in Dell Technologies? >>Well, I think the best partnerships right are ones that are customer driven. And what you're finding here is customers. They're actually encouraging us, right? We're doing a lot of three way meetings now, right where customers like, Hey, tell me how you're going to go involved this. How do I How do I basically modernized right and preserve my existing investment, perhaps Or, you know, update here, Or how do I grow like customers have really complex individual situations. And what you confined right is that we're helping jointly not, you know, just simply with the engineering side, which is awesome, but also with the idea that we're helping customers go on deploy responsibly in a time where it's very difficult to plan. And so if you come to us, we can help you jointly plan for the future in uncertain times and make sure that you're gonna be successful. And that's just a great feeling when you're a customer looking at, How do you deploy going forward in this? You know, with the amount of pace of change that we've got, >>I want to congratulate. Both of you have been following you guys. Success has been proven out on the business results and also the products and the enablement that you guys are providing customers been great. Thanks for coming on. Great to see both of you have a great event. Thanks for. Come on. >>Thank you. It's a pleasure. >>Okay, I'm John for your here with the Cube. Covering Del Technology Worlds Digital experience 2020 The Cube Virtual. >>Thanks for watching.

la from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Vinum care along with its ecosystem partners Oh welcome back to the sands here we are live here in Las Vegas along with Justin Warren I'm John wall's you're watching the Cuban our coverage here of AWS rain vut 2019 day one off in Rowan and EJ on the keynote stage this morning for a couple of hours and now a jam-packed show for Chris Wright joins us the CTO and Red Hat waking his way toward Cube Hall of Fame status we're getting there this is probably worth 50 of the parents I think good to see you good to see you yeah always a pleasure first off let's just let's just talk about kind of the broad landscape right now the pace of innovation that's going on what's happening in the open cloud you know catching up to that acceleration if you're if you're a legacy enterprise you know you got all these guys that are born over here and they're moving at warp speed you got to be you've got to play catch-up and and talk about maybe that friction if you will and and what people are learning about that in terms of trying to get caught up to the folks that have two head start well I think number one the way I like to frame it is open source is the source of innovation for the industry and part of that is you look at the collaborative model bringing different people together across industry to build technology together it's hard to compete with that pace and speed the challenge of course is as you describe how do you how do you consume that how do you bring it into the enterprise which is you know got a whole business that's running off of infrastructure that has been sustaining their business for potentially decades so there's that impedance mismatch of needing to go quickly to keep abreast of of the technology changes while honoring the fact that your core business is running already on key technology so I think looking at how you bring platforms in that support the newer technologies as well as create connections or even support existing applications is a great way to kind of bridge that gap and then partnering with people who can build a bridge like an impedance match between your speed and the speed of innovation is a great way to kind of you know harness the power without exposing yourself to the ragged edges as much sure yeah talk to us a bit more about it about enterprise experience with open source a Red Hat has a long heritage of providing open source to enterprise and couldn't pretty much sits out as a unique example of how you make money with open source so enterprises have lots of open source that they're using every day now you know Linux has come into the enterprise left right and center but there's a lot more open source technologies that enterprises are using today so give us a bit of a flavor of how enterprises are coming to grips with how open source helps sustain their business well in one sense it's that innovation engine so it's bringing new technology and in another sense it's what we've experienced in the in the Linux space is post driving a kind of commoditization of infrastructure so switching away from the traditional vertically integrated stack of a RISC UNIX environment to providing choice so you have a common platform that you can target all your applications do that creates independence from the underlying hardware that's that's something that provide a real value to the enterprise that notion continues to play out today as infrastructure changes it's not just hardware it's virtualized data centers it's public clouds how do you create that consistency for developers to target their applications too as well as the operation seems to manage well you know it's through leveraging open source and bringing a common platform in into your environment as you go up the stack I think you get more and more proliferation of ideas and choices from developer tools and modules and dependencies you know most software stacks today have some open source even included inside whether you're building exclusively on top of a platform that's open source based you're probably also including open source into your application so it's a whole variety from building your key infrastructure to supporting your your enterprise applications and you mentioned openness which y'all know is a big very important thing to Red Hat and one thing that red has been speaking of lately is open hybrid cloud so maybe you can explain that to us what what he is open hybrid cloud what does red head mean by that sure so open hybrid cloud for us start with open that's our platforms are built from open source project so we work across like literally thousands of open source projects bring those together into products that build our platform also we create an open ecosystem so you know we're really fostering partnerships and collaboration at every level from the developer level up through our commercial partnerships the hybrid piece is talking about where you deploy this infrastructure inside your data center on bare metal servers inside your data center virtualized in a private cloud across multiple public clouds and increasingly out to the edge so that that notion of what is the data center - to me it really encompasses all those different footprints so the hybrid cloud cloud meaning give a cloud like experience from an Operations point of view simple to operate meaning you know we're doing everything we can to help operators manage that infrastructure from a developer point of view surface scene functionality as services Nate the eyes and you know how do you give a self-service environment to developers like you know like a cloud so it's across all that first you talk about data in the edge which you know the fact that there's so much the computing that's going on out there and staying closer to the source right we're not bringing it back in you're leaving it out there that adds a whole new level of complexity - I would think and scale you know massive amounts what everything is happening out there so what are you seeing in that in that in terms of handling that complexity and addressing challenges that you see coming as this growth is tremendous growth continues well one it's how do you manage all of that infrastructure so I think having some consistency is a great way to manage that so using the same platform across all of those different environments including the edge that's really going to give you a direct benefit to targeting your applications to that same common platform having the ability to recognize some dependencies so maybe you have a dependency on a data set and that data sets supplied from sources that are in an edge location we can codify that and then enable developers to build applications you know do test dev Prada cross a variety of environments pushing all the way out to an edge deployment where you know thinking you're taking in a lot of data you may be building models in a scale out environment internally in your private cloud or out in the public cloud taking those models deploying those to the edge for inference in real time to make real-time decisions based on data flows through the system and that's that's the world that we live in today so managing that complexity is critical automation for managing that consistency common platforms I think are key tools that we can use to to help build up that that rich in person just from an industry perspective so who does who's that applied to in your mind right what kind of industry is looking at this and saying all right this is this is a an opportunity but also a challenge for us and something we really need to address what's the array there do you think honestly I see it across almost all market verticals so we look at the world or a platform centric view from from a RedHat perspective so we look at the world across industries what I find interesting in the edge use cases is they tend to get more vertically specific so in a manufacturing case you know maybe you're dealing with a manufacturing line which is a set of applications and a set of devices which looks quite different from a retail office or branch office environment some similar problems but very different environments and then you take the service providers networks the telco network out of the edge and that looks quite different from a manufacturing floor so you know it's a it's a wide variety of vertically oriented solutions drawing from some common platform technologies containers Linux you know how do you do automation across all of those environments that machine learning tools those are the things that I think are consistent but you get all a lot of very vertically focused use cases yeah I'm now in the canine today that that Andy was mentioning that they love open source and when we're here at Amazon and and he likes to talk about the compatibility that and customer choice is also very important to Amazon's wit tell us a little bit about how openness interacts with somewhere like ADA we're actually we're here at reinvent which is an ADA where show so how does Red Hat and AWS work together how do you coexist in this ecosystem and get the benefits of open source technologies we could exist in a number of different ways one would be as engineers working together in open source communities building technology another is we have commercial partnerships so we run our platforms on top of AWS so we bring customers to AWS which is a shared you know we have a shared benefit there and then there's also areas where we have competitive offerings so it's you know it's a full spectrum kind of the modern world of the buzzword co-op petitioner or whatever you know it I really think when you look in the open source communities engineers thrive on building great technologies together independent of any kind of corporate boundaries commercially people develop relationships that are complicated today and we have a great working relationship we've run a lot of our cloud customers on Amazon but again there's there's areas where we're both invested in kubernetes ours is openshift there's a zk s so customers have a choice in that context yeah sorry is that in that context that there are some in the open-source community who view cloud as possibly a bit of a villain and certain things we've seen some some dynamics around some particular providers around the debt the database face I went I went name 50 particular players but we've seen some competitive moves in in that place so do you see cloud is it the villain or is it an enabler of open-source technologies well it's definitely an enabler now there's a complicated scenario and this like is it a villain which is how do we create sustainable communities and in the context where a technology is developed largely by one vendor and it's monetized largely by another vendor it's not going to be a very sustainable model so we just have to focus on how are we building technology together and building it in a sustainable way and part of that is making the contributions back into the community to help the project's themselves grow and thrive part of it is having a great diversity of contributors into the into the project and recognizing that business models change and you know the world evolves yeah that doesn't introduce an element of risk it's been around for a while that enterprise are a little bit concerned about open source oh well who's really behind this will this project or software still be here in six months that seems to be decreasing as as the commercial support for particular open source projects and initiatives come to me and we see the rise of foundations and so on that try to give a little bit of an underpinning to some of these projects particularly ones that are critical for the supportive of enterprise technologies do you see enterprises maturing in their view of open source do they do they see it as no no that we understand that this is definitely a sustainable technology whereas these other ones like yeah that one's not quite there yet or do they still need a lot of assistance in making that kind of decision I've been at it for a couple of decades so in the beginning there was a lot of evangelism that this is safe it's consumable by the enterprise it's not some kind of crazy idea to bring open-source you're not gonna lose your intellectual property or things like that those days I mean I'm sure you could find an exception but those days are largely over in this in the sense that open source has gone mainstream so I would say open source is one most large enterprises have an open-source strategy they consider open source as critical to not only how they source software from vendors but also how they build their own applications so the world has really really evolved and now it's really a question of where are you partnering with vendors to build infrastructure that's critical to your business but not your differentiator and where are you leveraging open source internally for your to differentiate your business I think that's a more sophisticated view it's not the safety question it's not is it is it legally you know that you're bringing legal concerns into the picture it's really a much different conversation and people in the enterprise are looking how can we contribute to these projects so that's really it's pretty exciting actually so so what do you think it is then in the maturation process then as it did is it in the adolescent years is it growing into young adulthood you said you've been at it for a long time and it's more acceptable but where are we you think on that in that arc you know what in terms of adapting or or adopting if you will that philosophy probably depends on where you are in the layer of the stack and so the lower you get into the infrastructure the more commonplace it is the closer you get to differentiated value and something that's really unique there's less reason to even build those applications as open source if it's only you consuming it you know pretty pretty broad spectrum there I think that in general we're in some level of adulthood it's a very mature world in the open-source communities and what's interesting today is how we change business models around deploying and consuming open source technologies and then a next generation of technology will be very data-centric data drives a whole set of questions there's policy and governance around data placement there's model training and model exchanging and where models come from data or the models open source is the data shareable you know that it sets a whole new wave of questions that I think in that context it's much earlier so that's our next interview by the way with Chris next time down the road thanks for the time as always really good to see you and I know you're you're awfully busy this week so we really do appreciate you carving out a little slice of time glad to do face press yeah thank this right over Red Hat CTO back with Justin and John live on the cube here at AWS reinvent 2019

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with John Ferrier, The Cube at AWS Reinvent 19 Lots of buzz. You can probably hear a little bit of it behind us here. There's about 65,000 people projected to be at a W s reinvent this week. Wow, we're very excited to welcome a distinguished guest and a distinguished architect from Splunk. Back to the Q r didn't murder, do you? Welcome back. >>Thank you very much. Thanks for having me back. >>Great to have you here. So let's kind of talk about here. We are re invent lots of news, lots of stuff. Lots of buzz going on. What kind of the latest with Splunk and a del us. >>All right, so the latest Splunk is obviously acquired us significance. The deal closed in trouble, So we're very excited about that. Um on we really feel that it's a it's a manager off complementary technologies, which is what I want some of the things we probably we can discuss later We're also very excited because we got acquired. Then we were able to go to dot com where we, you know, introduce the combined companies together. But then, at a cubicle on recently, we made a couple of very interesting product announcement that we're excited about, which is way discussing lots of reinvent conference. The 1st 1 is we have a brand new kubernetes experience called the community's Navigator, which we feel is a far, far better way Thio understand and make sense of the community environment. As you know, it's taking getting a lot of traction as a technology. So we're very excited about that because it not only gives you the infrastructure of you, but it also gives it the operators view, which I think operas. We really appreciate it. Three other thing that we're also focusing on. Obviously, if Splunk acquired US logs is an important part of this equation way are doubling down on the ability to ingest logs and make metrics out of them. You know, one of the things we've always discussed is how metrics every lightweight and actionable think that you can put on dashboard. You could put a lot son on the ability. Doing just logs and make them into metrics gives you that capability on the log data. We had a very interesting announcement around AWS. Fire lands on so on where you would be able to take love data from Splunk or other sources, and they bring them in as metrics to the system. The 13 has to do with the growing traction off open source standards. So we were actually very excited to make some contributions in the open telemetry project that we can discuss also later. But the idea is we want to promote open standards on open source, especially in instrumentation in the monitoring. Really? So that's kind of what's new >>question that's here at Amazon this week in this points to your success is observe ability, jazz he's laying out. This is distributed cloud Senator Gravity public Cloud Edge Outpost, Native AWS, Outpost five G with Verizon Wavelength All points to a lot of things. Move around, move compute to the edge where the data is so it speaks of large scale people having a hard time of doing it themselves on observe abilities. Harder and harder to roll your own are managed multiple tools. What are you guys doing to solve that problem? And how do you shape that going forward? >>That's a great question. Like the thing that blows my mind every time I come to reinvent is just the sheer variety of new things that comes across on. People are adopting them. All of these, he mentioned a bunch of different service is that I've got a lot of traction, got a lot of users, so that's happening across the user base. And then the question on D A. Y is because it's no longer about just building a database or, you know, things that you can sort some data and make some credit. It's about building the solution. A good solution. Need to support all the system. The service is that the customer the engineers are using right, so just keeping up with the sheer pace of innovation. Keeping that system up today is extremely, extremely hard. And so I feel that in generous making, less and less sense for most companies to try to roll their own observe ability, they would rather choose good tools that can sort of empower them that can able to move faster and invest in the people and process is part of it, which is also very, very key because >>the downside of rolling your own doing it yourself sure, what are some of the consequences that might happen? >>So in general, the people, the reason people want to build a couple of reasons, right? So one is they might undervalue, like the capabilities that good of the ruling might provide you, they might be afraid of the cost, like observe ability was cheap or free. Most people probably wouldn't build it. Some of them still vote because they might be afraid of vendor locking. Vendor lock in is a problem, and you don't want to be locked into vendors. Right? And what I feel in the terms of the risks is like if you consider observe ability as a cost center and not as an enabler, then you probably gonna try to do D i Y. But I think the view to the right view to have is think of it is something that accelerates your innovation and some of the risks of the advice. If you don't build something that's really capable that can that can do all the border or something that a system. Should you're gonna get slowed down, your innovation is gonna get slowed down. Another very thing, common pattern that we see a lot is maintaining, maintaining that it is a lot of resource is and people to build and maintain such a system. It's easy to prototype something and get it going, But are you going to be able to maintain the head count higher and grow the team on a long term basis? Because it's not something you can suddenly decide? Oops. I made a mistake. Time for a change. >>But change is difficult in any aspect of life. Changed management is something that we talk about office. It's way easier said than done. One of the things Andy Jassy talked about this morning and alluded to this and John's exclusive interview with him the other day was that the transformation needs to start at the top. It needs to be an executive level, a senior level and an aggressive tops down push in your experience in the last couple of years, what are some of the things that you're seeing companies in terms of the senior leadership embracing a understanding where D I y is useful where it's not, but also pushing that I want Oh my God, guys pushing it down from the top. So folks understand why this type of change is fundamental to a business to be competitive, >>right? So in general lighting, the focus is all on, like innovating, faster moving faster, keeping customers happy. Fundamentally, that's what we're doing. You know, our CMO Tom Bueller likes to say that you know the business. The Internet moves at the speed of life, a speed of life, Israel time, right? And so outages, Any kind of issues. They really affect your brand. And that's something that we need to avoid, like the plague, right? And that's gonna wear again. Observe. Ability comes in because this is the thing that's gonna allow you to find out renting There are. But more importantly, even when you don't have outages, the confidence that teams get in making changes, whether it be configuration changes or coat, which is a setup because they have a good system backing them up, is very, very critical. Right now. You can go D i y. You can go with a vendor solution, potentially terrifying, especially you can build one, but I think from top down. The important thing is like you have to be very clear about what you want out of it. And what are those things that you want to accelerate or make better in your organization? If your goal is, I want faster innovation, more code pushes, more changes, less deception like I feel that message needs to be done so that engineers understand that from management perspective, there's full support for this on their empowering you again. Where the two comes from is less important. But I think having those goals very clear and having that culture set from the top is very critical. >>A lot of open source discussions were hearing it here, laying out multiple databases you got pie towards you got tensorflow in machine, learning side on more and more kubernetes again, that's all speaks to where the service measures air going in. Micro Service's There's a lot of talk around open instrumentation open telemetry. What's your take on this? What is what's going on there? Can you share your commentary on those two things? >>Yes, so injured, as you know, like from the beginning, where since in Olympics started, we always believed that instrumentation should be open standards based. There should not be propriety instrumentation. They should be vendor lock in. It was a little bit perhaps ahead of the time, and we started off, but you can see that trend really accelerating now. But at this point, because of the sheer variety of service is and so on, it's very, very hard to build proprietary everything that supports all the all the things out there. What we're seeing is more bottoms up, open source, open standards efforts. Right, And that is great because A for the guys who are doing d i y. Because they don't want vendor lock in open standards is great because you're not really locked into a vendor in your environment. What you're doing is using a different back end, whether it be you know, your own or would it be a vendor's? Some of the things that we're doing is we're actually very happy to see this acceleration, and we're actually helping make that more so. Way just contributed pretty significant open telemetry project, which, as you know, is a way to instrument your environment for traces and metrics and logs eventually and so we actually donated the signal if Ickes smart Asian, which is pretty wonderful because it's a survey that's an agent that's running on your instances on your host, discovers as nuisances pop up. So, you know, speaking of community is the perfect fit for that, and it will start monitoring them and sending you did up on by making it by donating it to open telemetry. Were hoping to sort of accelerate out of the goodness and so that you know, all customers all use it. Whether they're significant customers or not should be able to benefit from that. >>Is an open source the source code? Or is it open as >>it's open source? There's two aspects to it is open standards as well as open. Both of them are happening because through the Amish in acquisition, we're now actually a pretty cool part of the open telemetry effort. So we're not really helping find finalize the standards, but also donating actual source code and components. >>Take a minute to explain. Signal FX is evolution now that you're in Splunk, right? What's changed? What's still the same? What's how is it? Evolve, how a signal effects evolved because you guys were really early ahead of it. A lot of people, but a lot of market power, great customer base and tech. What's the impact of Splunk and signal FX? >>Yes. So you know there's this cliche which is one plus one equals three. It kinda almost feels true here because, like I really, every time I think about this acquisition, it just feels how complimentary these two companies were because we have metrics and traces. Blanc has the best loss platform. But one of the things that we lot of times don't understand is he also a bunch of other technology which is highly relevant to the observe ability, space. For example, the acquired A company called Phantom, which is into automation, which is right up our alley because I feel like after all this mess has died down a little bit on communities, automation is gonna be the next frontier. They're fantastic. Automation platform built the security automation tool called Mission Control based on that, and now we're looking at how we can bring that into observe ability. Another example is incident management, Broncos Victor Ups, which is again exactly right up our alley. So we feel that we can really build a portfolio of solutions that work really, really well, that's one aspect. The other aspect, as you mentioned, is just the market power. And the resource is that's behind us, which is wonderful. For example. They're quite our mission, which is a fantastic complimentary technology to us, and we're working very quickly to sort of integrate the two together. Similarly, is getting the introductions. Having the financial benefit of a Splunk behind us is wonderful to have. So I think it'll only accelerate our >>congratulations on a great venture. I know you guys stayed the course and rightfully so great payday. But great outcome with Splunk Win is a win win. Yes, I gotta ask you the entrepreneurial question because a lot of people are saying, Oh my God, Amazon sucking up all the auction out of the room, Large scale. Got red shifts taking over this. That's taking over that someone's eating someone. Okay, I don't believe that. I believe that there's still a lot of opportunity for entrepreneurs because of this Born in the cloud and reborn in the cloud a new next gen architectures are developing with EJ. What's your opinion on this? As a cloud of alls What's the dynamics? And entrepreneurs and people thinking about innovating and either pivoting or reimagine their business? How should they be thinking about how to win in the new model? What are some of the architectural things that could bet on? What's your expert opinion on that? >>That's a good question. So I have some thoughts on it. Everybody might area once, right? So I feel like move to cloud is just happening. It's happened. Everything is going to move to the cloud. So I think the fundamental technologies like the databases, etcetera, that cloud provided they're always gonna have an advantage because they're going to be able to run it in a more performance way. But the thing that they're doing us a great favour are entrepreneurs is they're making a lot of different service is available to us now. They're not always necessarily all working well together to solve a specific use case. So I feel that they're giving us a tool set, among other things, to combined together to provide solutions for the problems that users organizations are facing. Not necessarily the platform but but the solution, the vertical on top of it. I think there's a lot of opportunity there, as well as sort of just new types of technology you can. As an entrepreneur, you can still build technology that the cloud provider might find as valuable, and they might want to buy you there right when I use you. So there's always opportunity there. But I think they're so busy building that the substrate, this enormous amount of opportunities for further up north. That's kind of my opinion. >>That's great opinion. >>Last question for you on the parlay of opportunity and the career that you've had as cloud is evolving the next gen of the cloud to Toto that John's calling it, and data becomes the critical element that can fine business differentiation and competitive advantages. What are some of the next industries you really think our prime to completely transform? If they get it right, >>I think we're still stop. It is a whole lot of talk of machine learning. I think we're just scratching the surface. I think what's happened is at this point it has become accessible enough on viable enough to be applied to different places. So every day we see a new headline where basically similar techniques were applied to this use case or that this case, and it's amazing being health care, transportation, you name it like digital business. It's happening all the way on our side, on our side of the fence. I feel a Splunk or a signal effects. We want to see a lot of that happening on our side of the fence, because again, because of the complexity, wonder thing that we have discussed with John earlier is how we feel machine learning and artificial intelligence gonna help us operate more efficiently because humans are going to be able to not really rock the entire complexity of what's out there. So I feel there's a lot of assistance that it can provide. That's one area which I think is interesting, And I feel also that one of the things we discussed within Signal FX is his move towards automation automated everything because complex systems, they just need to run themselves At some point. Humans cannot really go and make all the decisions like my my mainframe, itjust kind offer it to tell you we're not really in the middle of it, right to some extent. Similarly, I feel there's not a lot of action gonna happen on Automated Cloud and automated opposite really automated everything. So I think that's another sort of big area that I see happening on one thing that I also like to say that I don't want to make predictions because, like the world is so different from 10 years ago to now, it just blows my mind. I don't know whether I would have been able to sort of think what's gonna happen. So I only wonder what the next five years they're gonna >>bring. Love that opponent. You're >>right. Even a few years ago today, mine are just thank you for joining John A B on today. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much >>for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Reinvent 19 and Vegas will be right back.

>>from Miami Beach, Florida It's the Q covering a Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by a Cronus. >>Welcome back with Cubes Coverage here for two days at the Cronus Global Cyber Sum of 2019. I'm John Courier, Post keeper in Miami Beach at the Fontainebleau Hotel, and I am here with the CEO and chairman of Cronus SP Sergei, known as SP. >>Yeah, joining that, that's fine. It's fine. >>So your inaugural event of the Global Cyber Summit What you're what you're feeling so far like it's >>very good to have exceeded the expectations. In terms of a dangerous with high quality audience. Everything is organized quite well. It's our first event of a kind. It's a first marks a transformation of the company from being data protection company to be decided protection company from the application company to be a platform. >>Talk about the vision and we're how you got here. Because again, the market's changing cloud computing, Internet of things, more threats than ever before data seems to be at the center of all this. >>Don't think about the team in terms of data, will look at 18 terms of foreclose, so workload could be day to put the application for the system. We also look at the team, not from the standpoint large passed him a small fast mark, but from the standpoint off and point, like your computer right here on the table or a mobile device from step with authority, which is a large that the center of a gentle price. Or it is a cloud like Amazon, like Google, like Microsoft. And from the standpoint of something in the middle, which we call EJ, and it's growing very rapidly, that's a small data center. That more door is that a small office that's also specialized vacations, like practically my hospital, like a railway station like restaurants. Like any retail location where you actually have specialized computers. Detective Lee servers running the infrastructure, for example. Every Starbucks location is actually 12 and those computers edge and then point. Need protection, need complete protection. And our mission is to provide a complete protection from the standpoint of safety, accessibility, privacy, authenticity of security that something which will go for any of us. >>You know, I think your divisions right on. In fact, when you think about data protection, my observation is it was because of disruption and operations. Somehow an event happened. Hurricane flood the operation of destructive. They gotta roll back and get the snapshots and bring it back. But security is now causing a disruption. I think you guys are honing in on with disruptions coming from a security vector way. Official mechanisms have to change a little bit. That seems a bit your success here with. >>I think we look at this holistically way, don't see really different, so safe its accessibility, privacy of authenticity and security. A love. This vectors are a problem, you know, perhaps authenticity. He's not yet visible as march, and privacy is new, So privacy is not the bad guys. You know, it's a good guys, guys. It's maybe yours. Employees. Maybe your partner. Or maybe maybe it's your customer. One. You don't want to see the information about somebody else and so alone. This is a threat, and you really don't want your infrastructure to be damage to your business to yourself. Unintentional damage. If you want to break something, you better break it, wasting your decision and you better be able to roll back so you know it comes from data protection, but it goes to security and privacy and authenticity. All of this together is important for defensive your idea. Infrastructure is functional and old times controlled by you. >>In your opinion, has ransomware provided a wake up call to I t around this area? Because that seems to be a theme. A lot with Ransomware. People realize that they're stuck highlights >>a problem somewhere is an interesting trend. I wouldn't really be happy about Ransomware around somewhere is a scene. So we help people to be protected against run somewhere. But that doesn't mean we like Ransomware. So yeah, >>extortion. Not really. Well, like, yeah, you're the one being extorted. >>Nice. But it's one of the wake up calls in reality again. It comes from all the directions. I think Ransomware is just very, very easy to understand. >>People can see and understand it. Explain You mentioned s a P A s. What does that explain that acronym? What does it mean? What's the vision behind >>Sabba says is safe Accessibility, privacy else intensity and security combined in a single product. That's what it means. It means that you know, don't lose in using everything is accessible at all times with the right people have access and you can control the access. Nothing is mortified in such ways that you don't know it was modified and no bad guys can break into your tea or into your date or NT applications >>you mentioned. The platform platforms are well known concept and computer science and certainly the Internet. You've seen great successes with platforms, enable something. How would you describe the enablement that comes from Cronus platform, Cyber platform. >>I think it comes back to what you start at the waist. There is a lot of new friends and part of this new Frances. The world for a while maybe 20 years ago looked like the world which is consolidating. And you can one vendor which provide solutions to watch majority of problems. Which was Michael, right? So you remember 1999. It looked like pretty much everybody is gonna use windows. Mark is not going to be there. Microsoft was making some inroads in Mobile was in C and so on and so forth. Well, now the water is consolidating. You have thousands of different types of workers. You have different systems. You have different applications. You have different cloud applications. You need to protect them in a very different way. That's another thing you need to integrate a lot about. You cannot do it all. So we opened our applications and our black from certain parties. Was event like this toe actually build on top of the platform to provide the functionality, which we don't >>You say that word system a few times, and I think this is interesting platform validation systems Thinking is like an operating system. It's a lot of consequences and systems The old system that seems that systems thinking is back in in the front lines of I t and technology because you got a cloud you got on premises, you got I ot way networks. It's a system, and so realistically thinking about it's interesting. Do you think people are getting their are you get the right thing to do? I think like a system >>wear simple people in a Cronus. We look at the world and we don't see anything but data by zeros and ones way don't look it everywhere, and I don't see anything but more clothes and these workers they could be in the cloud that could be on prayer. Music would be a partner location. It could be on your mobile device. It could be the whole device apart with. And we also see the world in terms of partners. And from our point of view, you know, it's it's was that people realize that, you know, people have idea needs to work on their partners to help him. So if I did, that work can do, innit? They cannot call their friends. They can communicate is a relative word possible head of the world. And so what we provide is a protection to make sure that it works a full time, no matter what is a possible challenge. >>That's me. Thank you for taking the time to answer some questions. I want to get one final question to you. News today Opening AP Eyes up Trading Developer network and a portal New New things. What's your message to the folks that want developing on your platform? What's the guiding principles with what's the simple value proposition of why I'm a developer? I wouldn't want to work on The Cronus is Global Platform >>so way might look relatively small. We're only 1.5000 people and we're only several $100 million. They were growing very rapidly. We have 6000 partners who can sell your products, and this number is going. Read it after you have 30,007 years. And so you have also a lot of data on the management. Five exabytes of data on the management and this amount of it is growing very rapidly. If you build applications for protection of this data, this number of workloads, this number off partners to sell it, you can sell your products successfully. Ultimately, for developers, it's It's about doing something which makes money and doing something which makes sense. And with our partner network, with our workload and they reach, they get to make sense and they get to make money. >>And it's a hot area. Cyber protection of a new Category Emerging out of the old data protection If you had to describe someone, the old waivers of the New way data protection the old way. Cyber Protection New Way. What's the difference between the two? >>Well, the difference is that includes security, privacy management, know sadistic management in one package. The difference is that it's designed to work in the world which is in parenting secure. It designed to work in the world where if you connect a network, you don't trust this network. And so if you have a cyber protection application cyber protection car where it has to be protected itself, that's >>thank you. Come on. Cue and taking the time out of your busy schedule to talk to us. Thank you. Very welcome. Appreciate it to give coverage here in Miami Beach across Global Cyber 7 2019 I'm John. Four year. Thanks for watching two days of coverage here. Be right back.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube covering your storage accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Q. We are wrapping up day two of two days of coverage. We're getting some applause. I'm pretty sure that's for us. At pure accelerate. 2019. Lisa Martin flanked by two gents Day Volante and Justin Warren. You probably know Justin, who's been on the Cube many times and less. Chief analyst. A pivot. Nine. Justin. You have been covering this event and well as an independent, so we want to get your take on this two days. We've had our 1st 2 day for the Cube covering pier storage. We've spoken with lots of people, cause Charlie kicks. I'm sure there's more nicknames that I'm forgetting customers. Partners. Dave. Let's do a quick recap of some of the trends and the themes that we've heard the last couple days. And then we'll get some independent analysis. Justin on Not just what you've heard the last three days, starting with a tech field day, but also just your history of covering and working with here. >> Well, so for my sample, its story of growth they even started pure starts all the press releases with the only company that's growing on the growth storage company. The growth in the first. So so this growth is a financial story there. Um pure is going for growth, the markets rewarding growth right now. So it's smart, double down on growth. That might change at some point on. We talked about Charlie Jean Carlo about this, and they'll decide what what they do at that point time. But But from a financial standpoint, growing fast, uh, like their balance sheet, be interesting to see if they can leverage it. Maur. But maybe they're using it for Optionality. They'll do 1.7 this fiscal year. 1.7 billion. That's good. They got 70% gross margins. It a little bit of free cash flow. Not much because they pour it back into the business. So story a growth that's number 12 was differentiation. Um, I think it it's pretty clear that their products are differentiated from the sort of big portfolio companies. I mean, it's it shows up in the numbers and the income statement, and it shows up when you talk to customers simplicity, the whole A P I thing. I guess the third is products. I mean, they're embracing the cloud, which is kind of interesting. I don't think they're gonna do a ton of business with block storage for AWS, but it's an interesting hedge, and I think it's really cool from an engineering standpoint on, I think you know, two other things. Culture but orange. They're different, They're cool. They're hip and customers, which at the end of the day, that's where the rubber meets the road. Customers happy you talk to companies are customers of companies like pure service now Splunk Nutanix >> Uh uh, >> and some others. And they're happy. They love it. It's transforming their business. Snowflake is another one. Really? How come you AI path is another one? These are the hottest companies in the business right now, and you can tell when you talk to their customers is good story >> and their customers articulate their differentiation for them pretty darn while what? You know, we've spoken to a number. I think four or five customers the last couple of days, and they're not talking about Flash Ray flash blade X M flashback. They're talking about their business and how the I T is benefiting from that and how the business is benefiting from that. You also see piers very vibrant culture being embraced organically by their customers. There's plenty of customers walking around and the brightest orange I think I've even seen here. So there they're differentiation. Their culture, their customer experience and their ability to really differentiate three that are were loud and clear for what I heard through the voice of the customer and the partners, Frankly, as well. >> So I guess, Justin, I mean, the other pieces Tam expansion 1st 10 years, Cloud New Way I workloads partnerships with backup companies growing. The Tim I've said the 1st 10 years is probably gonna be easier, and I know that's a terrible thing to say, but don't hate me for saying it pure. But then the next 10 because they're up against the flat footed E. M. C. That was getting pounded by Elliott management with pressures to go private, trying to hang on to its legacy business and then got acquired and distracted by Del. So that was a really tailwind for Pierre. Now it's like Cloud guys got their act together, you know? Aye, aye. Everybody's doing A s. Oh, so they get some challenges. But what's your take? I think I've >> still got an advantage. Talking to some customers, 11 in particular was quite clear. That they saw pure is having at least a 2 to 3 lead through 2 to 3 year lead on the technology from some of their competitors. So they shopped around and they had a look at some of his competitors, and they thought that actually they were trying to sell me technology that's 234 years old and they quite from them, was that this is something that I could do myself, so they clearly see that pure provides them with something that they can't do themselves. So pure has an advantage there. I also think that the way that the market is changing advantage is pure, a little bit as well. So you mentioned Cloud there, Dave and I think that we've all seen that people have realized that multi cloud is a thing and that not every workload is going to go to the cloud. A lot of it is going to stay on Prem, so now that that's kind of allowed, people are allowed to talk about that, That there are CEOs who would have been being pressured by boards and so on to say we have to go all in on the cloud. Now they can come back to them and say, Well, actually, weaken, stay on side. That means that we should be looking at some of these onside products, like pure so that we can go on put in storage. A race in a data center may not be our Dana Senate might be in Coehlo, but we have this on site method of doing things. Not everything has to go to the cloud. So I think that will help them with some of the growth. >> So I'm left thinking, What would Andy say? Okay to >> be >> It's the number one hottest company, you know, notwithstanding some smaller companies right now, cos moving the market is a W s obviously Microsoft with the trillion dollar valuation. But Amazon, to me, is the benchmark it. So I feel like Jassy would say, Well, so Hey, Andy, you've acknowledged hybrid, you know? Actually, yeah, I guess he uses that word. Um, and you're doing some stuff one prim, but I think he would say we still believe that the vast majority of workloads are gonna land in the public cloud. And what you just said is what everybody else believes. And to me, they're in conflict and I don't necessarily have the answer. But you got the big gorilla. Now the big claw gorilla is moving. The markets say with one philosophy and they've made some good calls and the entire i t industry. Yeah, the other the inspector. >> Except that AWS has outpost have a product that actually sits on site. And they did. And Jesse last year said that he did say that the boat inward, multi cloud, >> you know, So, uh, sorry. Used the word multi cloud used hybrid hybrid cloud. They don't say that. That's for Boden, but no. But my point is they've acknowledged hybrid, which they never used to talk about hybrid. So they capitulated there The end where capitulated on their claws on its cloud strategy. But he has not capitulated on the belief the firm belief that most workloads are gonna be in the club. I'm not sure he's wrong. >> That may be true, but on what Time horizon? So that's not going to happen next year. But I >> think for sure, >> I pointed out that the agile manifesto came out in 2001. That's 18 years ago. Not every shop is doing software in agile, so enterprises take a long time to change, so there's plenty of room for pure to grow. While that changes going on, even if it if it does go all their own cloud, it's gonna take a long time to get there. And people can make plenty of money in the meantime. >> But I believe you're sorry. I believe pure is growing in what is a crappy market. Yeah, I think the storage market is a crap market right now. It's one that's very difficult. The leader Deli emcees growing at 0%. And that's a goodness because they're gaining share. Ned ABS down last quarter, not minus 16% IBM, minus 21% hp thrilled with whatever 3% or whatever. They're at a minus three. I can't remember now. Here is the only one that showing any substantive growth on my premises there, doing that by having a superior product and business model, and they're stealing share. So and then I ask you this. I I believe in hybrid, by the way. But I'm just playing kind of devil's advocate here. Cloud is growing and it's consistently growing and everybody talks about repatriation. You don't see it in the numbers. Every talks about the large of the law of large numbers like in other words, they hit a wall. You don't see that in the numbers. What you see is the traditional IittIe spaces flattish. The new stuff that they're all developing is not growing fast enough to offset the old stuff. You see that? Certainly. See that IBM. You see that now? Adele, even though they had good bounce back last year. But now you're seeing that Adele Oracle ekes out 1% growth. So the big, uh, legacy companies are growing there, hanging on there, throwing off tons of cash. They got good, strong balance sheets, maybe taking on some cheap debt. But the cloud continues to grow at a pace that I think it's stealing share from traditional I t. >> That's that's a reasonable sort of announcing something. Yeah, whether or not we'll see an increase in growth of onsite, particularly things like EJ computing way, maybe you need Thio redefine what we think of as a data center, and maybe we're not thinking about a broad enough market. I actually think that a lot of those workloads that we would traditionally have said would go on site and cola. I don't think Cola Data Center is actually growing all that much, but I think we are going to see growth in things like EJ. >> So that's a really great point I want. I want to come back to that. But the big question is, then okay. Can cloud be before we get ahead, you can cloud be a tail wind for pure. They've embraced it. 20 years ago, the leaders of a company would say, Oh, no, it's cloud his crap about a peace Caesar of toys You remember that pure embracing cloud, I think, is impressive only from an engineering perspective but business model. So can they make in your opinion cloud a tail wind and an opportunity? Maybe that's where Multi Cloud comes in. >> Yeah, it's tricky. I think it will become more of an advantage once good things like kubernetes and containers matures a bit further and people are used to being able to deploy things in that way, both in Cloud and on site. I think that that's the portability play, and it's more about making onsite more cloudy rather than making the cloud more enterprising, which I think was one of the messages that we had here. Because enterprises a lot of what yours messaging so far. And it's product development, particularly around cloud block stories, to make the cloud look more like an enterprise. Where's what we actually needed it to go the other way. Pure is doing things in that in that regard with pure storage optimizer, which which takes a lot of the decision making a way that from the way you would normally do things on side the way we've gotten used to it, manually configuring things, it's actually turning it into software on just letting computers handle it. That integration with things like the M, where is making things operate a lot more like cloud? So once enterprises become used to operating on a lot more like clouds, I think that's going to be an advantage for pure. To be ableto have that operations be in cloud and then they'll bring in products into in time for that to happen. >> You have the opportunity just in a couple days ago to tend the technical field day, the TFT that pure dead. So you got that double click the day before all the press releases broke about. Some of you know, we talked about the expansion into cloud with aws Maur, their portfolio delivered as a service. The aye aye data hub. But if we look at one of the things that stuck out today was differentiation. We've talked about that a number of levels in the last minutes. But talk to us about the technical differentiation that you've not only heard this week from pure, but that you've been engaging with them for years. You have an interesting story of Of John Cosgrove caused their CEO and founder really describing something very unique. That seems to be quite a technical level of differentiation that you even said We don't see this from a lot of their competitors. Give us a little snapshot of that. >> Yeah, you don't sort of get that level of detail in some of the briefings as well. So it was another tech Field day event some years ago on was talking about flash array and we sat in a room, and they had a flash array in front of us, and I think they were talking about the newest kind of flash they were putting into this. But they described some of the technical decisions they made about the architecture inside the blade. So at that time, and I hope I'm getting all these details correct, they had designed and asic, so to go in front, off the flash so that they could essentially create a layer above above the flash that they could speak to within their software. That meant that it didn't matter which flash foundry they bought it from, because it's slut. There are certain differences around the way that flash works, and they do address the flash directly, unlike buying SS D's and putting them inside the box. So that gives them a performance advantage because you don't have a whole bunch of software translation going on to get into the flash. But that decision meant that they could then change flash foundry without changing the experience off the awful. The software developers up the stack inside their array, so that meant that there cadence of being able to bring out new products and gradually dropped down the cost of the supply of flash, which makes up a large amount of the calls on these particular devices. It provided them with better options so they could maintain, maintain optionality essentially and be very, very flexible and react to the things that they can't predict. So Charlie mentioned in the briefing yesterday that you know, in this industry, you might get a 20% drop in the cost of flash in one month, which will then affect them their revenues in coming months after that, because clearly they want to pass on some of those cost drops to customers. But it needs to be done a certain, more manage way. When you have that kind of dynamic behavior happening in the market, being able to react to that well in something where the hardware design time can be 18 months to two years, building that into your product so that it then provides you with business options as a technology, that's a really impressive way of thinking about how all the different pieces of your company have to interact with each other. So it's not just about the technology, it's about the business and the technology working hand in hand, >> and those lower flash prices should open up new markets for them. Flash a racy I think they call it, is still not at the price of hybrid, I wouldn't think, although they saying it will be. Hybrid arrays are priced around 70 60 70 cents a gigabyte today is according Thio Gardner analysis. Big >> Challenge with hybrid of rays Which flat, which flash around flash or a C wouldn't actually wouldn't have? This problem is the reliability of the Leighton see and predictability. So with an old flash array, you don't get Layton. See sparks if you suddenly exhaust the amount of flash that you have in a hybrid of rain that has to go back to the disk. So if you need that predictable performance, that's why people have gone with flesh arrayed very beginning, absolutely getting that as a capacity tear. I think that provides a lot of reliability, for particularly when you've got large amounts of data need to write flesh >> and the price is coming down and it's maybe it's double now on a per gigabyte basis, that'll come down further. But I welcome back to EJ because I think you bring up a good point And we didn't Thankfully, here a ton about EJ. I think we heard anything about EJ at this show. We didn't get inundated with edge, which we always do with these big shows. And I'm happy about that because I think that that a lot of the companies that we re attend I think they got it wrong. They're taking a box and they're throwing over the fence to trying to do a top down model to the edge. Hey, here's a server or here's a storage device and we're gonna put it at the edge. It's like, OK, well, I think the edge is going to evolve as a software development. You know, play not isn't over. The top is gonna be bottoms up innovation. Now, I don't know question about you know, whether Amazon at the edge vm wear at the edge. Um, but I don't see any traditional i t companies crushing it at the edge there talking about it. They're trying to build out ecosystems, and but nobody's has meaningful revenue today at the edge. But it's a new way to think about this. Distributed massive compute engine >> on. I think we'll start to see that mature as people start to bring out products that actually do operated the way heard from Nvidia about some of their ideas that they have about doing a I processing at the edge for things like image recognition systems, where you train your model on leg large data sets in a cloud or in a data center. And then you shoot those models out two devices that operate on a smaller data set. But for a lot of these things, you need to do data collection at the edge. So Formula One is a classic example based given for the F one racing team is an I. O. T. Company that is connected to a nail and analytics company. Really? >> Yeah, that's right. We did hear about EJ and that an actual use case is in college edge, so there's going to be >> a lot more of that. We have things like sensors are just all over the place, so you know, in anything in retail, if you have fridges in retail and you need to monitor the sensors in those to find out whether or not is the temperature going out out of control or outside of your control limits because that will affect the food that's in that. There's a whole bunch of kind of boring examples that are actually all I OT. So I think some of those will start to push more data into into devices at the edge. And as people's understanding of how to use machine learning and I matures away from the hype, I think we're pretty peak hype at the moment. Once we do actually drop that back a notch and we see that people they're doing really use riel riel world use cases with real world business value that will start to drive a lot more of the growth of practical. And that will drive growth in data, which will need to get close throughout the weather's device. >> I think you're right. I think that date is gonna be at the edge of a lot of that data. I would say most of that date is going to stay at the edge. It's probably it's not gonna says it. Probably it's definitely not going to sit in a million dollar storage array, and it's gonna comprise a lot of alternative processing arm, Uh, GP use versus conventional microprocessors. So >> and that's where I think he was thinking about, like the white pure One works, for example, pure. One works the same no matter what products you have from pure, and they have been very clear in stating that they want to make sure that when they bring out a new array or a new product, it works with pure one. So it's that consistency of experience for their customers, which I think is fairly unique in the industry, is a lot of other products that will come out. And they only partly supported, not full support for their entire race tagging. AMC struggle with that for a long time simply because it has so many products and needed to kill a whole bunch of them first. So when when you have that kind of engineering discipline built built into your company, when you go out and you have customers who have edge devices or you have stuff in the cloud and they have devices on their phones which they used to showing off a conference and say, Hey, come and have a look at my array, it runs on software on my phone that's pure one that software ability that pure has of being able to address this data wherever it is. I think >> there's >> a real opportunity for pure that put that kind of intelligence on to age things. Even if they don't actually sell any flash a raise to those people, they could start to sell them software. >> All right, guys. So 15 seconds each since arose at a time. Computers competitive. Positioning your thoughts in a quick summary about what you've heard the last few days and what Justin has >> to me if I would expect continued growth, forgetting about the macro for a moment, even in gonna grow faster than the market place. Um and yeah, they said they don't throw off as much cash as the big guys. So it's gonna be a game of the big guys do in stock buybacks, free cash flow and pure storage. Investing in growth. >> Excellent. Justin. >> Yes, I agree. I think they're going to double down on the R and D spend to make sure that they maintain a technological advantage over their competitors. The biggest risk of pure is if the other players, you know, the deal emcee other plays in that big online storage market. If they actually get their act together and start bringing out competitive products, that's the biggest threat to fuel. But pure has a big lead on them. I would say, >> Yeah, I think the last thing cloud, you know, kind of a question Mark. And I think the m where to me, Del. Of course I care about storage is huge business for them. They're all above the M where and to the extent that they can leverage VM where, you know, as a competitive weapon, they'll use it against anybody you know. Damn the ecosystem. >> Excellent. Well, thanks, guys, for a great wrap up to our two days here for Justin Warren and Day Volante. I'm Lisa Martin. Thank you for watching the cubes. Coverage of pure accelerate 2019.

>> Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey. Here with the Cube, we are high Top San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower and the brand new A century's Thean Novation hub opened up, I don't know. Six months ago or so, we were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stare. So if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about a cloud in the evolution of cloud and hybrid cloud. And clearly two players that are right in the middle is helping customers get through this journey and do these migrations. Our center and h. P. E s were excited to have our next guest, Melissa Bessie. She is the managing director, Intelligent cloud and infrastructure strategic partnerships at a center. Melissa. Welcome. And joining us from HP is David Stone. He's the VP of ecosystem sales. They have a great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this this new entrance with aws kind of coming on the scene. One of the great lines of Jeff Basil's talks about is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the the bookseller out on the left hand ah, edges coming in to take the river structure business. But as things have moved to Public Cloud, now there's hybrid cloud. No, no. All applications or work clothes are right for a public cloud. So now, while the enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves. But it's complicated. So first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary hybrid cloud versus multi cloud one of those terms mean to you and your customers started Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of multi cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of I would say multi Kludd operating model that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So you have your public cloud providers. You have your sass like, uh, sales force at work day, you have your pass right? And so when you think of multi cloud, any customers goingto have a plethora of all of these types of clouds and really being able to manage across those becomes critical. When you think of hybrid cloud hybrid cloud is really thinking about the placement of ill. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right? Are you going to put your data in the public or in the private space? And so you can't look at it from that perspective, and it really enables that data movement across both of those clouds. >> So what would you see? David and your, uh, your customers? I say that a >> lot of the customers that we see today or confused right the people who have gone to the public cloud have scratched their heads and said, Jeez, what do I do? It's not as cheap as I thought it was gonna be. So the ones who were early adopters or confused the ones who haven't moved yet are really scratching their head as well, Right, because if you don't have the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy, and I think that's where the market and I know a center and HPD clearly see them, the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, Melissa, You said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out where we more often hear it talked about workload. This kind of horses for courses, you know, it's a workload specific should be deployed in this particular kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mentioned data, and there's a lot of conversation kind of pre cloud about data, gravity and how expensive it is to move the date and the age old thing. Do you move the compute to the data, or do you move the data to the compute? A lot of advantages if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the ah, the real negatives in terms of potential cost implications. And we didn't even get into regulations and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay in the data center. So how should people start thinking about these variables when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Ex enters position Definitely like when we started off on our hybrid cloud journey was to capture the workload and once you have that workload you could really balance. It's the public benefits of speed, innovation and consumption with the private benefits of actually regulation, data, gravity and performance. Right? And so our whole approach and big bet has been able is been to basically we had really good leading public capabilities because we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we we said, OK, if we create a hybrid capability that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, Um and that is standard. We'd be able to offer our customers a weight of pick, really the right workload in the right place at the right price. And that was really what? Our whole goal waas. >> Yeah, and so just the Adama Melissa said, I think we also think about at least, uh, you know, keeping the data in a place where you want but then being cloud adjacent. So getting in the right data centers and we often use the cloud saying to bring the cloud to the data right? So if you have the right hybrid strategy. You put the data where it makes the most sense where you want to maintain the security and privacy. Ah, but then have access to the AP eyes and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we hear a lot of the data center providers like quinyx and stuff talking about features like Direct Connect and Noted Toe have this proximity between the public cloud and the and the stuff that's in your private cloud so that you do have no low latent see, and you can when you do have to move things or you do need to access that data. It's not so far away. Um, I'm curious about the impact of companies like Salesforce with Salesforce Tower here in San Francisco at the Centre Offices and Office 3 65 and Work Day on how kind of the adoption of the SAS applications have changed. The conversation about Cloud or what's important and not important, needs to be security. I don't trust eating outside my data center Now, one might argue that public clouds are more secure in some ways than in private cloud. You have disgruntled employees per se running around the data centers on plugging things. So how? How is the adoption of things like Officer 65? Clearly, Microsoft's leverage that in a big way to grow their own cloud presence changed the conversation about what's good about Cloud. What's not good about Chlo? Why should we move in this direction? But if you have thought >> no, look, it's a great question, and I think if you think about that, his Melissa said, the use cases right and Microsoft is have sex. Feli successfully pivoted their business to it as a service model, right? And so what I think it's done is it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the sales forces of the world have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a sass based offer. And so when you could do a work day or a salesforce dot com implementation shirt, it's been built that it's tested and everything else I think, what then becomes the bigger question in the bigger challenges. Most companies air sitting on 1000 applications that have been built over time, and what do you do with those? And so in many cases, you need to be connected to those SAS space providers. But you need the right hybrid strategy again. To be able to figure out how to connect those SAS based service is to whatever you're gonna do with those 1000 workloads and those 1000 workloads running on different things that you need the right strategy to figure out where to put the actual workloads and is people they're trying to go. I know one of the questions that comes up is Do you my grade or do you modernize? And so as people put that strategy together, I think how you tied to those SAS based service is clearly ties into your hybrid strategy, >> I would agree. And so, as David mentioned, right, that's where the clouded Jason see, you're seeing a lot of blur between public and private. I mean, Google's providing bare metal is a service, so it is actually dedicated hybrid cloud capabilities. Right? So you're seeing a lot of everyone. And as as David talked about all of the surrounding applications around your s a P around Oracle, when we created our ex enter hyper cloud, we were going after the enterprise workload. But there is a lot of legacy and other ones that need that data and or the sales force data, whatever the data is right and really be able to utilize it when they need to in a real low leagues. >> So let's I want to get unpacked. The ah central hybrid cloud. Um, what is that exactly is that is that your guys own cloud is, you know, kind of a solution set. I've heard that mentioned a couple of times. So what is the centre? Hyper cloud? >> So eccentric hybrid cloud was a big bet we made as we saw the convergence of multi cloud. We really said, We know we everything is not gonna go public and in some cases it's all coming back. And so customers really needed a way to look at all of their workloads, right? Because part of the issue with the getting the cost of the benefits out of public is the workload goes. But you really don't earn able to get out of the data center. We terminate the wild animal park because there's a lot of applications that right Are you going to modernize? Are you goingto let them to end of life? so there's a lot of things you have to consider to truly exit a data center strategy. And so its center hybrid cloud is actually a big bet we made. It is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability that really augments all of the leading capability we had in the cloud area. It is it's differentiated women, a big bet with HP. It's differentiated on its hardware. One of the reasons when we're going after the enterprise was they need large compute. They have large computer and large storage requirements, and what we were able to dio is when we created this used some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client that we had an existing Io environment. We were actually able to achieve some significant benefits just from the automation. We got 50% in the provisioning of applications. We got 40% in the provisioning in the V m on, and we were able to take a lot of what I'll call the manual tasks and down Thio. It was like 62% reduction in the effort as well as a 33% savings overall in getting things production ready. So this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning at the application level because we're going after the enterprise workloads and it will create these. It's an asset that came from the government. So it's highly secured. Um, and it really was able to preserve. I think, what our customer needed and being able to span that public private capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, you could say I don't know that there's enough talk aboutthe complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing this a sideman piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit. Talk about HBC. A lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with a I and machine learning now, which you know most of those benefits are going to be realized in a specific application, right? It's a machine learning or artificial intelligence apply to a specific application. So again, you guys big, big iron and been making big iron for ah, long time. What is this kind of hybrid cloud open up in terms of HB Ito have the big, heavy big heavy metal instead it and still have kind of the agility and flexibility of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about what HB strategy has been in this area and high performance compute, we bought the company SG eye on. As you've seen, the announcements were hopefully gonna close on the Kree acquisition as well. And so we see in the world of the data continuing to expand in huge volumes, the need to have incredible horsepower to drive that associated with it. Now all of this really requires Where's your data being created and where's it actually being consumed? And so you need to have the right edge to cloud strategy and everything. And so in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge to be able to compute in do stuff in real time. But in many cases, you need to feed all that data back into ah, Mother Cloud or some sort of mother HP, you know, e type of high performance, confused environment that can actually run the more advanced a I in machine learning type of applications to really get the insights and tune the algorithms and then push some of those AP eyes and applications back to the edge. So it's it's an area of huge investment. It's an area where because of the late and see, uh, and you know things like autonomous driving and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud or you need cloud type capability if you will have able to compute and make the right decisions at the right time. So it's about having the right computer technology at the right place at the right time. The right cost and the right perform a >> lot of rights. Yeah, good opportunity for a center. So I mean, it's it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud and and that kind of new new verbs around Cloud and cloud like things is where we're gonna see the same thing. Kind of the edge, the edge versus the data center comparison in terms of where the data is, where the processing is because it's gonna be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out? I was like the edge because there was no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that grade. And maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, EJ offers a whole bunch of different challenges that you can control for in a data center. But it is going to be this crazy kind of hybrid world there, too, in terms of where the allocation of those resource is. Are you guys getting deeper into that model, Melissa? >> So we're definitely working with HP again to create some of all call it our edge. Manage. Service is again going back to what we're saying about the data, right? We saw the centralization of data with a cloud with the initial entrance into the cloud. Now we're seeing the decentralization of that data back out to the edge. Um, with that right in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need. They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil and exploration, if you look at media processing right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things and depending on where it's located, if it's on the edge. How you're gonna feed back the data as we talked about. And so we're looking at How do you take this foundation? Right. This all colonic center hybrid. Um, architecture. I take that and play that intermediate role. I'm gonna call it intermediary. Right, Because you really need a really good you know, global data map. You need a good supply chain, right? Really? To make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application at the right time, with right, the ability to do it at speed. And so all of these things air factors as we look at our hole ex center, hybrid cloud strategy, right? And being able to manage that EJ decor and then back out to cloud exactly >> right. And I wonder if you could share some stories because the value proposition I think around cloud is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right? It's not about cost. It's not about cost savings. I mean, there's a lot of that in there, and that's good. But really, the opportunity is about speed, speed and innovation and enabling more innovation across your enterprise. with more people having more access to more data to build more APS and really to react. Are people getting that or they still the customer still kind of encumbered by this this kind of transition phase. They're still trying to sort it out. Or do they get it? That that really this opportunity is about speed, Speed, speed? No, >> go ahead. I mean, we use a phrase first offices here. No cloud, right. So to your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy? But I think within that you you get what's the right application and how do you fit it into the overall strategy of what you're trying to do? >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, um, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole right. When you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, write applications. And how are you going to some? You're gonna retain some? You're gonna retire some. You're gonna reap age. You're gonna re factor for the cloud or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is you're going to be looking at doing? Um, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters like even the papers killers themselves, right? They recognize the speed. So, you know, we're working with Google. For instance. They wanted to get into the bare metal as a service capability. Write them, actually building it. Getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole ex center hybrid cloud architecture that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub millisecond latency, and so their loved ones, Right? Everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and pre book capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers because it is, as we talked about this multi cloud were lots of things that you have to manage if you can get pieces from multiple plate, you know, from a partner right that can provide Maur of the service is that you need it really enables the management of right, >> right, So gonna wrap it up. I won't give you the last word in terms of what's the what's the most consistent blind spot that you see when you're first engaging with a customer who's who's relatively early on this journey that that they miss that you see over and over and over. And you're like, you know, these are some of the things you really gotta think about that they haven't thought about >> Yeah, so for me, I think it's the cloud isn't about a destination. It's about an experience. And so how do you get you talked about the operations? But how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use a simple analogy that if you and I needed a car for five or 10 or 15 minutes, you go get a new bir. Uh, because it's easy. It's quick. If you need a car for a couple days to do a rent a car, we need a car for a year. You might do at least you need a car for 34 years. You probably buy it right. And so if you use that analogy and think whom I need a workload or in the application for 56 years putting something out, persistent workload that you know about on a public cloud, maybe the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibitive. But if you need something that you can stand up in five minutes and shut right back down, the public cloud is absolutely the right way to go is long as you can deal with the security requirements and stuff. So if you think you think about what are the actual requirements, is it costs is a performance. You've talked about speed and everything else it really trying to figure out you get an experience and the only experience that can really hit you. What you need to do today is a having the right hybrid strategy and every company and a century was out way in front of the market on Public Cloud, and now they've come to the realization, and so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, and it's gonna be multi cloud. And as long as you can have an experience and a partner that can manage, you know, help you to find the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> I think the blinds, but we run into is it does start off as a cost savings activity, and they're really. It really is so much more about how you're going to manage that enterprise workload. How are we gonna worry about the data? Are you gonna have access to it? Are you gonna be able to make it fluid, right. The whole essence of cloud, right? What? It What it disrupted was the I thought that something had to stay in one place, right? And that you were the real time decisions were being made where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds as well as that, you had to own it yourself, right? I mean, everyone always thought Okay, uh, I'll take all of the I T. Department. Very protective of everything that wanted to keep. Now it's about saying, All right, how do I utilize the best of each of these multi clouds to stand up? What? I'll call what their core capability is as a customer, right? Are they do in the next chip design or hey, you know, doing financial market models right? That requires a high performance capability, right? So when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power. Is is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products and service is to market and touching the car customers I need versus Oh, I'm gonna move this out to an infrastructure because that's what God will save me. Money, Right, Bench. Typically the downfall we see because they're not looking at it from the workload of the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff that that's not your core. All right, Well, Melissa David, Thanks for taking a minute and really enjoyed the conversation. Is Melissa? He's David. I'm Jeff. Rick, you're watching. The Cube were high above the San Francisco skyline in the sales force. Tyra. The essential innovation up. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube. It's the Emerald 2019 our 10th year water wall coverage. Three days, two sets, lots of content. Instrument of my co host is Justin Warren. And one of the big stories coming into the show is VM Wear actually went on an acquisition spree. A hold number of acquisitions. Boston based Carbon Black over $2 billion Pivotal brought back into the fold for also, you know, around that ballpark of money on Happy to Welcome to the program. One of those acquisitions, such and Conti, is sitting to my right. He's the co founder of Hana is also a professor at Stanford University. Thank you so much for joining us and joining us. Also for the segment. Shakeri Air, the executive vice president general manager of Telco Edge Cloud at VM Wear, Shaker said, Yes, there's a lot of acquisitions not to play favorites, but maybe this is his favorite. No question about it. All right. Eso such in, you know, boy, you know the Paolo Alto Stanford connection. We were thinking back, You know, the Founders Of'em where, of course, you know came from Stanford. Many acquisitions over the year, including the mega next era acquisition. You know, quite a few years ago, I came out of Stanford. Give us what was the genesis in the Why of Hana. >> It's actually interesting Stanford Connection to So I've been a faculty at Stanford for the last 10 years on dhe. I have seen the SD and moment very close on up front on one of the dirty secrets of S. T M says it makes the netbooks programmable, but someone still has to write the programs on. So that's usually a very complex task on the pieces beyond the company was, Can we use the eye to learn how to program the network rather than humans having to program the network to do management or optimization? So the division really waas can be built? A network that learned how to optimize itself learns how to manage itself on the technology we're building. Is this a pipeline that basically tries to deliver on that for mobile? >> It's great, Sachin, you know, my background is networking and it feels like forever. We've been hooking well. We need to get people from the cli over to the gooey. But we know in today's rightly complex world, whether it's a I or just automation, humans will not be able to keep up with it. And, you know, we know that that's where a lot of the errors would happen is when we entered humans into doing some of this. So what are some of the key drivers that make this solution possible today that, you know, it might not have been able to do done when when one train was first rolling out the first S t n? >> Yeah, talk about it in three dimensions. The one is, Why do we need it today? Right on. Then what is being what is happening that is enabling this today, right? So, apart from what I talked about Stu and I think the other big driver is, the way I like to think about it is that the Internet is going from a means of consumption to a means of control and interaction. So, increasingly, the application to BC driving the next big decade, our very way of controlling things remotely or the network like a self driving car, or be in interacting but very highly rich visual content like E. R. India. So the applications are becoming a lot more demanding on the Net. At the same time, the network is going through a phase off, opening up on becoming disaggregated network complexity is increasing significantly. So the motivation behind the company and why I thought that was the right time to start the company was these two friends are gonna collide with five coming along the applications that are driving five g and then at the complexity increasing our five. So that's why we started the company. What actually is enabling. This is the fact that we have seen a lot of progress with the eye over the last few years. It hasn't really. It hadn't really been applied at scale to networks and specifically mobile that book. So we definitely saw no, actually there, but increasingly, ah, lot of the infrastructure that is being deployed there was more and more telemetry available. There was more and more data becoming available and that also obviously feet this whole engine. So I think the availability of all of these Big Data Technologies Maur data coming in from the network and the need because of these applications and that complexity. I think there's a perfect confluence >> that there's lots of lots of II floating around at the moment, and there's different flavors of it as well. So this machine learning there's Aye aye, sir. When when you say that there's there's a I behind this What? What particular kind of machine learning or a Y you're using to drive these networks? >> This a few different techniques because the problems we solve our anomaly detection off. Then problems are happening in the network predicting how network conditions are going to evolve. For example, predicting what your devices throughput is gonna be the next 30 seconds. We're also learning how to control the knobs in the neck using AI ai techniques. So each of these has different classes of the eye techniques. So, for example, for control we're using reinforcement learning, which is the same technique that Google used to kind of been on alphago. How do you learn how to play a game basically, but area the game you're playing it optimizing the network. But for the others, it's a record of neural networks to do predictions on Time series data. So I think it's a combination of techniques I wouldn't get to wherever the techniques. It's ultimately. But what is the problem you're trying to solve? And then they picked the right technique to solve it, >> and so on that because the aye aye is actually kind of stupid in that it doesn't know what they wouldn't. What an optimized network looks like. We have to show it what that is. So what? How do you actually train these systems to understand? But what is an optimized network? What? How does how does that tell you? Define this is what my network optimal state should be. >> So that's a great question, because in networking like that, any other discipline that wants to use the eye. There's not a lot of label data. What is the state I want to end up at what is a problem state or what is a good state? All of this is labels that someone has to enter, and that's not available axe kid, and we're never gonna be able to get it at the scale we wanted. So one of our secret sauce is if you will, is semi supervised learning but basic ideas that we're taking a lot of domain knowledge on using that domain knowledge to figure out what should be the right features for these models so that we can actually train these models in a scalable fashion. If you just throw it a lot of data any I model, it just does not converge. Hardly constructive features on the other thing is, how do I actually define what are good kind of end state conditions? What's a good network? And that's coming from domain knowledge to That's how we're making I scale for the stomach. >> I mean, overall, I would say, as you look at that, some of the parameters in terms of what you want to achieve are actually quite obvious things like fewer dropped calls for a cellular network. You know, that's good. So figuring out what the metrics need to be and what the tuning needs before the network, that's where Hana comes in in terms of the right people. >> All right, so shake her. Give us a little bit of an understanding as to where this fits into the networking portfolio. You know, we heard no we heard from Patty or two ago. You know what would have strong push? Networking is on the NSX number. Speaks for itself is what's happening with that portfolio? >> No, absolutely. In fact, what we're doing here is actually broader than networking. It's sort off very pertinent to the network off a carrier. But that is a bulk off their business, if you will. I think if you sort of go back and look at the emirs of any any, any vision, this is the notion of having any cloud in any application land on any cloud and then any device connected to those applications on that any cloud side we are looking at particularly to cloud pools, one which we call the Telco cloud and the other is the edge cloud. And both of these fortuitously are now becoming sort of transforming the context of five G. So in one case, in the telco cloudy or looking at their core and access networks, the radio networks, all of this getting more cloud ified, which essentially leads toe greater agility in service deployment, and then the edge is a much more distributed architecture. Many points over which you can have compute storage network management and security deployed. So if you now think about the sort of thousands off nodes on dhe virtualized clouds, it is just impossible to manage this manual. So what you do need is greater. I mean, orders of magnitude, greater automation in the ability to go and manage and infrastructure like this. So, with our technology now enhanced by Johanna in that network portfolio in the Telco Edge Cloud portfolio, were able to go back to the carriers and tell them, Look, we're not just foundational infrastructure providers. We can also then help you automate help you get visibility into your networks and just help you overall manager networks better for better customer expedience and better performance. >> So what are some of the use coasters that you see is being enabled by five G? There's a lot of hype about five short the moment and not just five jail. So things like WiFi six. Yeah, it would appear to me that this kind of technique would work equally well for five g Your wife. I short a WiFi six. So what are some of the use cases? You see these thieves service providers with Toko Edge clouds using this for? Yeah, So I think overall, first of all, I'd >> say enterprise use cases are going to become a pretty prominent part off five, even though a lot off the buzz and hype ends up being about consumers and how much bandwidth and data they could get in or whether five chicken passing preys or not. But in fact, things like on premise radio on whether that is private. Lt it's 40 or five t. These are the kinds of Uschi cases that were actually quite excited about because these could be deployed literally today. I mean, sometimes they're not regulated. You can go in with, like, existing architectures. You don't need to wait for standardization to break open a radio architecture. You could actually do it, Um, and >> so this sort off going in and >> providing connectivity on an enterprise network that is an enhanced state off where it is today. We've already started that journey, for example, with yellow cloud and branch networking. Now, if we can take that toe a radio based architecture for enterprise networking, So we think, ah, use case like that would be very prominent. And then based on edge architectures distributed networks now becoming the next generation Cdn is an example. That's another application that we think would be very prominent. And then I think, for consumers just sort of getting things like gaming applications off on edge network. Those are all the kinds of applications that would consume this sort off high skill, reliability and performance. >> Can you give a little sketch of the company pre acquisition, you know, is the product all g eight? How many customers you? Can you say what you have there? Sure >> it does us roughly three years old. The company itself so relatively young. We were around 33 people total. We had a product that is already deployed with chairman Telcos. So it is in production deployment with Chairman Telco Ondas in production trials with a couple of other tier one telcos. So we built a platform to scale to the largest networks in the world on If I, if I were to summarize it, be basically can observe, makes sense or in real time about every user in the network, what their experiences like actually apply. I modeled on top of that to optimize each user's expedience because one of the vision bee had was the network today is optimized for the average. But as all off our web expedience personalized netbook experiences, not personalized can be build a network Very your experiences personalized for you for the applications, your running on it. And this was kind of a foundation for that. >> I mean, we In fact, as we've been deploying our telco Cloud and carrier networks, we've also been counting roughly how many subscribers are being served up. Today we have over 800 million subscribers, and in fact, I was talking to someone and we were talking about that does. Being over 10% off the population of the world is now running on the lack of memory infrastructure. And then along comes Johanna and they can actually fine tune the data right down to a single subscriber. Okay, so now you can see the sort of two ends of the scale problem and how we can do this using a I. It's pretty powerful. Excellent. >> So So if we have any problems with our our service fighters, b tech support and I love to hear from both of you, you know what this acquisition position means for the future of the places and obviously VM wear global footprint. A lot of customers and resource is. But you know what I mean to your team in your product. >> I mean, definitely accelerating how quickly we can now start deploying. This and the rest of the world be as a small company, have very focused on a few key customers to prove the technology we have done that on. I think now it's the face to scale it on. Repeat it across a lot of other customers, but I think it also gives us a broader canvas to play that right. So we were focused on one aspect of the problem which is around, if you will, intelligence and subscriber experience. But I think with the cloud on but the orchestration products that are coming out of the ember, we can now start to imagine a full stock that you could build a network of full carrier network code off using using remote technology. So I think it's a broad, more exciting, actually, for us to be able to integrate not just the network data but also other parts of the stock itself. And >> it strikes me that this probably isn't just limited to telcos, either. The service providers and carriers are one aspect of this bit particularly five G and things like deployments into factory automation. Yes, I can see a lot of enterprise is starting to become much in some ways a little bit like a tell go. And they would definitely benefit from this >> kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, in fact, that's the basis of our internal even bringing our telco and EJ and I ot together and a common infrastructure pool. And so we're looking at that. That's the capability for deploying this type of technology across that. So you're exactly right, >> Checker want to give you the last word, you know, Telco space, you know? And then, obviously the broader cloud has been, you know, a large growth area. What, you want people taking away from the emerald 2019 when it comes to your team? >> Yeah, I think. To me, Calico's have a tremendous opportunity to not just be the plumbing and networking providers that they can in fact, be both the clowns of tomorrow as well as the application providers of tomorrow. And I think we have the technology and both organically as well as through acquisitions like Ohana. Take them there. So I'm just super excited about the journey. Because I think while most of the people are talking about five D as this wave, that is just beginning for us, it's just a perfect coming together on many of these architectures that is going to take telcos into a new world. So we're super excited about taking them. >> Shaker. Thank you so much for joining against auction. Congratulations and good luck on the next phase of you and your team's journey along the way. Thank you. Thank you for Justin. Warren comes to Minutemen, Stay with us. Still a bit more to go for VM World 2019 and, as always, thank you for watching the Cube.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. PALO ALTO, California It is a cute conversation, >> living welcome to this special Cuba conversation in Palo Alto, California We're here with our friends on Twitter and influences in the cloud computing edge and open source game. We have our distinguished power panel here talking about if every tech company, every company should be a tech company. And what does it mean in the air of a modern infrastructure? Police to have my kale with ct of everest dot org's from most Gatto's California Rob Hirschfeld, founder and CEO of Rock n Calling in From Where You Calling in from >> Austin, Texas. >> Austin, Texas. Good to have you and Mark Theo Who's with EJ Gravity brand New opportunity. Congratulations calling in Las Vegas. Thanks for coming in, guys. Thanks for spending the time on this cube power panel from the influencers. Always great to see you guys on Twitter with this morning. I woke up, was very active at a Crouch said earlier this morning. And Mark, you wrote a post that got my attention. So I think you hit a nerve that has been sparking around the Internets around the role of technology as couples, they're starting to rethink and building out there enterprise architectures in their businesses. And we're seeing some signals around cybersecurity. Dev Ops certainly has been kind of banging on this drum with cloud computing, and that is that the role of technology plays as a percentage of the business part of the business. And your tweet was simply put, you said every bit. If every business needs to become a tech business, it business has to decide to own its own infrastructure something of that effect, which which triggered me because it's like That's a good question. It isn't just a part of an organization supporting it. Tech is becoming much more instrumental. So I want to get your reaction. What was the motivation behind that tweet? What's your what's your What was your point around it? >> Yeah, I mean, like many of my tweets, they're poorly worded and rushed out, so you know, it's not as clear as it could have been. But the real point of the message wasn't Thio highlight that a technology company has to be all in the cloud or has to own its infrastructure, but rather as a company makes a change towards becoming a technology company. I mean, if we go back Thio you know, 1995 or 1996 when we wanted a library, we went to the library. But now we have Google. We didn't know that Google was gonna become an online the equivalent of a library. But it became a digital company before anybody asked for that solution or anybody was running that kind of solution in some sort of company format and then changed it over. But, you know, Google Facebook, Microsoft's into it. Adobe PayPal. We could go down the long list there. All I t cos in the end, whether you call the technology that they built to run their businesses engineering with a CTO or I t. Is the material. They are in fact, large giant I t organizations that do what they do to make money. And so, as more companies look to make the change as digital transformation takes hold as more efforts are presented to try to get a closer handle on customers to build loyalty with customers, create new engagement models, maybe at the edge, even in traditional application environments, then companies have to make a decision about how they're going toe oh, nightie and whether they're goingto own any portion of the infrastructure of I T. And if they're going to do that, then I don't think that there's any question that they have to own it. Atleast following a model of the way the large providers and the facebooks, et cetera have provided for us cannot continue. In other words, what I've been known to say before, we can't continue to throw more hardware and people at the problem. >> My mike, I want to get your thoughts on this because one of the things that I know you have been involved a lot with security on dhe I t. As well in security, which which is a canary in the coal mine. For a lot of these architectural decisions are all kind of looking at how they hire and build on premise in house around tech stacks. And one of the things that became apparent to me at Amazon Aws reinforce, which is their Amazons first cloud security conference, was most of the ceases. When I talk privately was saying, we don't really believe in multi cloud. We have multiple clouds, but We're investing in people on certain stacks that fit our guiding principles of what we're building as a company. And they said we then go to the suppliers and saying, Here's the AP eyes we want you to support So you start to see the shift from being hiring the general purpose software vendors to come in and supply them with I t stuff Were hardware. As Mark pointed out, too much more, the customer saying No, no, this is our spec build that we built it. And so the trend that points to the trend of a reinvestment of building tech at the core of the business, which would imply to Mark's point around their tech companies. What's your thoughts on this? >> So a nuance. My answer. I think their tech enabled companies more than tech companies like Tech is enabling, whether it's Google or into it or pay power of the other companies. Mark mentioned technologies the base of their companies stack, um, then to go into your security portion, security has to be architected and embedded into the core solutions not bolted on after the fact with vendor solutions like it is today, and I think we've proven time and time again, including the capital one issue as a day or two ago that the current approaches are not working. And, uh, I agree with whomever See says you've been talking thio like being driving a P I integrations and be consumptive of them and telling what you need to build is a much better approach. Would you want to build a custom house with that actually talking to your builder and finding out later? What? What features and pictures have been installed in your home. But what do you wanna have a hand in that from the ground up? I think that's the mischief. >> Well, I want to come back to the capital. One point that's gonna be a separate talk track. So let's hold that thought. Rob, I want to go to you. Because StarBeat Joel, whose prolific on these threads you know, posting is nice Twitter cards on their um, he said, If you know, talk about leasing out extra capacity in a private data centers question Mark, you know, teasing out the question. And then Ben Haines responded and said, Why the hell would you want to be in that business when you have a real business to run again to what Mark was saying about, You know, Tech is going to be everywhere. Why should I even be in the data center? Because I don't want to be in that business. I gotta figure out Tech for the business. So Ben kind of brings that practitioner perspective. What's your thought? Because you're in the middle of this with the devil's movement. Bare metal, big part of it, Your thoughts. >> Yeah, And that's why we really focus on fixing the bear mental problem. Andi, I want to come back to where a bear metal fits with all this because you really can't get away from bare metal. I think the first question is really is every day to send is every business in I t business. And you know, not every business is a Google and strictly a nighty business. But what we're seeing with machine learning and Internet of things and just extension of what was traditionally siloed I t or data center, I t into everyday operations. You can't get away from the fact that if you're not able to take in the data, work with the data, manipulate and understand what your customers were doing. Then you are going to be behind. That's That's how you're gonna lose. You're gonna be out of business on. So I think that what we're doing is we're redefining business into not just a product that you're selling, but understanding how your customers air interacting with that product, what value they're getting from it. We really redefined supply chain in a very transformative way compared to anything else. And that's an I T enabled transformation. >> Ben brings up a good point, but the Brent wanted Friends Point is essentially teasing out mark and yourself a bare metal. All this stuff is complicated. Cut and make investments. Ben's teasing as What the hell business do you want to be in? I think that becomes a lot of this digital transformation. Conversation is Hey, Cloud is an easy decision. We were start up 10 years ago. We don't have I t. We have 50 plus people on growing. We're all in the cloud. That's fine for us. Dropbox started in the cloud. All these guys started class. It's easy as hell to do it. No, no debate there. But as you start thinking, Maurin Maur integration as a big enterprise which wasn't born in the cloud. This is where the transformations happening is what business? What the hell they doing? What's what's the purpose of their >> visit? Yeah, but the reality of you, a cloud infrastructure and how cloud infrastructure is structured does not really take you away from owning how you operate and run that infrastructure, right Amazons than an amazing marketing job of telling everybody that they're not smart enough to run their own infrastructure. And it's just not true way definitely let operations get very lax. We built up a lot of technical debt that we we need to be able to fix. An Amazon walked in and said, This is too hard for you. Let us take it off your plate. But the reality is people using Amazon still have toe owned their operations of that infrastructure. The capital one didn't doesn't get to just get a pass and say, I used Amazon. Oh, well, Too bad. Talk to them. You still own your infrastructure. >> Technically, it wasn't Amazons fall, so let's get the capital. One is this brings up a good point. Converged infrastructure was the Holy Grail, savior for the I t If you go back when we started doing Cuba interviews, stupidity and I would talk about converged is awesome. You got Nutanix kicked ass and grew like crazy. And so then you have the converge kind of meat's maker. When it sees the cloud, it's like, OK, I got great converged infrastructure, but yet the breach on capital one had nothing to do with a W s. It was basically an s three bucket that the firewall Miss configured. So it was really Amazon was a victim of its simplicity there. I mean, there's a >> I mean, this is this is what we're talking about with. To me with this tweet is that we need to look, we need to be better at operating the infrastructure we have, whether it's Amazon or physical assets on your premises. What we've really done is we've eroded our ability to manage those pieces well and do it in a way that builds on itself. And so as soon as we can get on improvement there, I mean, this this is where I went with this threat is if we can really improve our operational efficiency with the infrastructure we have, whether it's in the cloud on premises. You create benefits there than everything you build on top of that is gonna have a nim prove mint, right. We're gonna change the way we look at infrastructure. Amazons already done that on. We think about infrastructure in cloud terms, but I don't think that what they've done is the end destination. They just taught us how to be better running infrastructure. >> Well, it brings up that it brings up the point, and I have so Mike shaking his head to get his thought and mark on this. If I is that I tease problem our operational technologies problem because the world's not as simple as it used to be. It was not. It wasn't. It's not simple. You got edge. You get externally incest cloud players now multi cloud. So information technology teams and operational technology teams whose fault is it? Who is responsible thing? Could you just had a AI bots managing the the filtering and access to history buckets that could have been automated away? What, Whose problem was it? Operations, technology or I t. >> So that I think, to touch upon what Rob was talking about. There's my chain and technology, uh, from the classic sound byte is people process and technology. The core cause of literally every security breach, including capital one is a lack of sophisticated process and the root cause being people, and there's no amount of a I currently that can fix that. So you have to start focusing on your operational supply chain processes, which has, Rob said. Amazon has really solidified, and the company should look to emulate that forces trying to emulate the cloud infrastructure and some of your processed and your people challenges first. And then you can leverage the technology. >> Great point. Totally agree with you on that one >> market. Yeah, I would agree with everything that both Mike and Rob just said, and I would just add that we we don't have any choice but to face the future. That is, I t. And in order to provide the best possible service to our customers for our applications that even haven't been built yet, we have to look at the service is that are available to us and utilize them the best way possible and then find appropriate management and, like so correctly put it supply chain processes for managing them. So I've talked to people who are building unique cloud platforms internally to solve a specific business problem in ways that the individual clouds offered by the Big Three is an example can't do or can't do as well or can't do is cheaply. And the same thing applies to customers who are just using more than one of the big cloud providers. Even for some in some cases, for workloads. That might seem similar because each of the clouds provide a different opportunity associated with that specific set of requirements. And so we don't have any choice but to manage it better. And whether it's we make a choice to use it in our data center because it's more cost effective long term. And that's our single most important driver. Or whether we decide to leverage every tool in our tool belt, which includes a handful of cloud providers. And some we do our own, um, or we put it all in one cloud. It doesn't change our responsibility for owning it correctly, right? And my simple message really was that you have to figure out how to own and I'll steal from Mike again. You have to figure out how to own that supply chain. But more lower down more base is ifs. Part of that supply chain is delivering compute into a data center or environment that you own. Then you have to find the tools capabilities to ensure that you're not making the kind of mistakes that were made with capital or >> or, if you have tools are networks and tools you don't know and look at the quotes. So called scare with the China hack from Super Micro. That's a silly why chain problems? Well, it's on the silicon. So again, back to the process, people an equation. I think that's right on this brings us kind of through the next talking track. I want to get your thoughts on, which is cloud two point. Oh, I mean, I'm putting that term out there on Lee is a provocative way. Remember, Web to point. It works so well in debating about what it what it was. If one if cloud one data was Amazon Web service is, thank you very much. Public cloud. You could say cloud two point. Oh, our second inning would be just what happens next because you're seeing now a confluence of different dynamics edge, um, security, industrial edge. And then you know this all coming into on premises, which is hybrid and public, all working together. And then you throw multi cloud in there from a complexity standpoint. Do you wanna have support Microsoft's Stack, Azure Stack, Google and Amazon? This is this is the fundamental 2.0 question. Because things are more real time. Things are data specific. This costs involved. There's really network innovation needed what you guys thoughts on cloud to point out. >> I think the basic cloud 2.0, is moving to the shared responsibility model. And we should stop blaming people for teams for breaches as architectures become much more complex, including network computing, storage and in service orchestration layers like kubernetes, no one team or individual, individual or one team and manage all of that. So you're all responsible for infrastructure, scalability, performance and security. So I think it's the cultural movement more than the technology movement at the base of >> Rob. What's your definition? Cloud 2.0, from your perspective. >> Oh boy, I've been calling it Post Cloud Is my feeling on this? Yeah, it to me. It's it's about rethinking the way we automate. Um, you know, we really learned that we had to interact with infrastructure via automation and eliminate the human risk elements of. This doesn't mean that we have an automation is foolproof either It's not, but what? What I think we've seen is that people have really understood that we have to bring the type of automation and power that we're seeing in clouding the benefits because they're very riel. But back into everything that we do. There's no doubt in my mind that infrastructure is moving back into the environment. Where is what? Which is EJ from my perspective, and we'll see computing in a much more distributed way and those benefits and getting that right in the automation. Is this necessary to run autonomous zero touch infrastructure in environmental situations. That is gonna be justice transformative, freighted that that environment makes the cloud look easy. Frankly, >> Mark, what's your take? I want to get because, you know, security houses, one element get self driving cars. You got kind of a new front end of of EJ devices, whether it's a Serie Buy Me a song on iTunes, which has to go out to a traditional system and purchase a song. But that that Siri priest is different than what? The back end? Does this simply database, Get it? Moving over self driving cars, You're seeing all kinds of EJ industrial activity. You know, the debate of moving compute to the data. You got Amazon with ground station, all these new infrastructure physical activities going on that needs software to power it. What, you're in cloud to point. It seems to be a nice place not just for analytics, but for operational thing. Your thoughts on cloud to point out >> Well, I mean you you describe the opportunity relatively well. I could certainly go in. I've spent a lot of time going into detail about what EJ might mean and what might populate edge and why people would use it. But I think from if we just look at it from a cloud 2.0, standpoint, maybe I'm oversimplifying. But I would say, you know, if you add on to what Mike and Rob already so well pointed out is that it's best fit right, it's best fit from compute location, Thio CPU type Thio platform on, and historically, for I t they've always had to make pragmatic choice is that I believe, limit their ability on Helped to create Maur you know, legacy Tech that they have to manage, um on and create overhead tech debt, as they call it on DSO. I think judo. And in my book the best case for two Dato is that I can put best fit work where I need it when I need it for as long as I need it. >> That's that's really kind of gasp originals. Well, people got to get the software stood up. That's where I think Kubernetes has shown a nice position. I want to extend this track to another thought, another topic around networking. So if you look at the three pillars of computing computing mean industry, compute storage and networking, cloud one daughter, you can say pretty much compute storage did a good job. Amazon has a C two as three. Everything went great. Networking always got taken to the wood shed. You know, networking was getting, you know, people were pissing and moaning about networking. But if you look at kind of things were just talking about networking seems to be an area that this cloud 2.0, could innovate on. So wanna get each of your thoughts on? If you could throw the magic wand out there around the network doesn't take the same track as Dev ops that gets abstracted away because you see VM wear now doing deals. All the cloud providers they got they're going after Cisco with the networking PCC Cisco trying to be relevant. The big guys you got edge, which is power and network connection. You need those things. So what is the role of the network? And two point If you guys could wave the magic wand and have something magically happen or innovate, what would it be? >> Oh, wait, it's part complaining. It's your world. You know, it's ironic that I said this Thio competitors to my most previous company. Ericsson Company was away. They asked me after an event in San everything was a cloud expo. I just got off stage and the gentleman came up to me and asked me So mark you the way you talked about Cloud. I appreciate the comments you made yada, yada, yada. But what do you think about networking? And I said Well, network big problem right now is that you can't follow cloud assumptions as faras usage characteristics and deployment characteristics with networking. When that problem is solved, will have moved light years ahead in how people can use and deploy i t. Because it doesn't matter if you can define workload opportunity in 30 minutes on an edge device somewhere or on a new set of data centers belonging to Google or 10 Cent or anybody else. If you can't treat the network with same functionality and flexibility and speed to value that, you can the cloud then, um, it's Unfortunately, you're really reducing your opportunity and needlessly lengthening the time to value for whatever activity it is. You're really >> so network, certainly critical in 2.0, terms have absolutely that Mike any any thoughts there? >> So I think you know, there's there's easy answers to this that are actually the answer. You know, I P v six was the answer from a couple years ago, and that hasn't solved in the fantasy of the solved. All the problems, just like five G is not gonna magically transform our edge infrastructure into this brilliant network. The reality is, networking is hard and it's hard because there's a ton of legacy embedded stuff that still has to keep working. You can't just, you know, install a new container on container system and say, I've now fixed networking. You have to deal with the globally interconnected MASH insistence. I think when we look at networking, we have to do it in a way that respects the legacy and figures out migration strategies. One of the biggest problems I see that a lot of our technology stacks here is that they just assume we're gonna pave over the problems of yesteryear, nor them and with network, when you don't get that benefit, what you described with cloud networking, never living up the potential, it's because cloud networking isn't club networking. It's it's, you know, early days of the Internet. Networking is still what we use today. It's not. It's not something you can just snap your fingers and disrupt. >> Well, I mean, networking had two major things that were big parts of a networking and who build networks knows you provisioned them and you have policy stuff that runs on them, right? You moving paintings from A to B, then you got networks you don't own right so that's kind of pedestrian, old thinking. But if you want to make networks programmable to me, it just seems like they just seem to be so much more there that needs to be developed, not just moving package. Well, >> you just said it's traditional. Networks were built first, and the infrastructure was then built around them or leveraging them, so you need to take like in zero. Trust paper. When Bugsy Siegel built Las Vegas, he built the town first and then put the roads around the infrastructure. So you need to take that approach with networking. You need to have the core infrastructure of first and then lay down the networking around to support it. And, as Mark said, that needs to be much more real time or programmable. So moving from ah, hardware to find to a software to find model, I think, is how you fix networking. It's not gonna be fixed by a new protocol or set of protocols or adding more policies or complexity to it, >> so you see a lot of change then, based on that, I'd take away that you see change coming to networking in a big way because Vegas we're gonna build >> our if it has to happen. The current way is not working. And that's why we need the bottlenecks. Wherever >> Mark you live in is the traffic's brutal. But, you know, still e gotta figure out, You know, they got some more roads. The bill change coming. What are your thoughts on the change coming with this networking paradigm >> show? I mean, there are a few companies in the space already. I'm going to refuse to name anyway at this point because one of them is a partner of my new company, not my new company, but the new company I work for and I don't want to leave them out of the discussion. But there are several companies in the space right now that are attempting to do just then just that from centralized locations, helping customers to more rapidly deploy network services to and from cloud or two and from other data centers in a chain of data centers. Programmatically as we've talked about. But in the long run, your ability to lay down networking from your office without having to create new firewall rules and spend months on on contract language and things like that on being able to take a slice of the network you already have and deploy it on DDE, not have to go through the complex Mpls or Or VPN set ups that are common today on defectively reroute destinations when you want to or make new connections when you need to. Is far as I'm concerned, that's vital to the success of anything we would call a cloud two point. Oh, >> well, we're gonna try tracks when he's hot startups. So you guys see anyone around this area? I love this topic. I think it's worth talking a lot more about love. Love to continue on with you guys on that another. Another time. Final five minutes. I'd love to spend with you guys talking about the the digital transformation paradox. Rob, we're talking before we came on camera. He loved this paradox because it's simply not as easy to saying Kill the old man, bringing the new and everything's gonna be hunky dorey. It's not that simple, but but it also brings up the fact that in all these major waves, the hype outlives the reality, too. So you're seeing so I want to get your thoughts on digital transformation. Each of you share your thoughts on what's come home to be realistic in digital transformation, which what hasn't showed up yet in terms of benefits and capability. >> I mean, this is this to me is one of the things that we see happen in every wave. They people jump on that bandwagon really hard, and then they tell everybody who's doing the current stuff, that they're doing it wrong. Um, and that that to me, actually does a lot more heart. What we what we've seen in places where people said, burn the boats, you know, we don't care. They have actually not managed to get traction and not create the long term sustainability that you would get if you created ways to bring things forward. Networking is a good example for that, right? Automating a firewall configuration and creating a soft firewall or virtual network function is just taking something that people understand and moving it into a much more control perspective in a lot of ways. That's what we saw with Cloud Cloud took working I t infrastructure that people understood added some change but also kept things that people 1% and so the paradox. Is that you? Is it the more you tell people, they just have to completely disrupt and break everything they've done and walk away from their no nighty infrastructure, the less actually you create these long term values. And I know there are people who really know you got totally changed everything that disrupted value. But a lot of the disrupted value comes from creating these incremental changes and then building something on top of that. So what? So >> what did what Indigenous in digital transformation, what has happened? That's positive and what hasn't happened that was supposed to happen. >> So when I look att Dev ops on what people thought we were going to do, just automate all things that turned out to be a much bigger lift than people expected. But when we started looking at pipelines and deployment pipelines and something very concrete for that which let people start in one or two places and then expand, I think I think, uh, pipelines and build deploy pipelines are transformative, right? Going from a continuously integrated system all the way to a continuously integrated data center. Yeah, that's transformative. And it's very concrete just telling people automate everything is not been as effective >> guys. Other thoughts there on the digital >> transformation dream. I agree with everything that Rob just said, and I would just add just because, you know, it's the boarding piece that someone always has to say, and nobody in Tech everyone is he here? But you know, every corporation at one point or another in its Kurt in its life span faces a transformative period of time because of product change or a new competitor that's doing things differently, or has figured out a way to do it cheaper or whatever it is. And they usually make or break that transformation not because of technology, not because of whether they have smart people, not because of whether they implemented the newest solution, but because of culture and organizational motivation and the vast majority of like Everything, Rob said doesn't just apply to I. T. A lot of the best I T frameworks around Agile and Dev ops apply to how the rest of the organization can and should react to opportunity so that if I t can be and should be really time, then it only makes sense that the business should be able to be real time in responding to what is being created through I t systems. And right now I would argue that the vast majority of the 80% of transformations that don't see the benefit that they're looking for have nothing to do with whether they could have gotten the right technology or done the technology correctly. But it has to do with institutional culture and motivation. And if you can fix that, then the only piece all add on to that. That again I vociferously, really agree with Robin is that if you want to lower the barrier to entry and you want to get more people into this market, you won't get more people to buy more of your stuff and grow what they own. Then you have to be able to show them a path to taking, getting the most value out of what they already have. There is no doubt in my mind that that's the only way forward, and that's where some of the tools that we're talking about and what we're talking about today on Twitter or so important >> Mike final stops on the >> docks >> on your thoughts on the transmission paradox, >> so the paradox that Robb describe think is set, the contact is set incorrectly by calling it digital transformation should be digital revolution, where the evolution process doesn't end. Transformation makes people think that there's some end state, which means let's burn the votes. That's let's get rid of all over all on prime infrastructure moved to cloud and we're done. And really, that's only the beginning. Which is why we're talking about Cloud two point. Oh, do you have to take that approach that you want to have continuous evolution and improvements, which Segways into what Rob said about de box and automating all the things you don't automate your tasks and processes and you're done? You want to keep improving upon them. Figuring out how to improve the process is and then change the automation five that the is, Mark said. It's a cultural and mental shift versus trying to get to this Holy Grail and state of transforming transformation. >> Awesome. Well, why I got you guys here first off. Thanks for spending the time and unpacking these big issue. Well, two more of it. I'd >> love to just get >> your thoughts real quick on just your opinion of Capital One. The breach, survivability and impact of the industry. Since it's still in the news, who wants to jump for us? We'll start with Mike. Mike, start with you will go down the line. Mike, Robin Mara. >> I mean, the good news for Capital One is I don't think any personal information was breached that hasn't already been exposed by the various other massive reaches. Like I do my so security number as a throw away at this point which never should have been used for identity. But I want All >> right, So there were Do you think >> it's recoverable is not gonna be as critical, say, Equifax, which was brutal. >> It doesn't sound like there was negligence where Equifax seemed like it was Maura negligent driven than just ah ah, bad process or bad hygiene around a user or roll account and access to a certain subset of data. >> I mean, this was someone who stumbled upon open history bucket and said, >> Well, well, look at this >> bragging about it on Twitter and the user groups. I mean, this >> was like from from what the press said, I think there's other companies that may or may not be affected by this as well, so that it's just capital one, which will probably defuse the attention on them and lessen the severity or backlash. >> Rob your thoughts on Capital One. >> Yeah, I wish it would move the needle. I think that we have become so used to the security of breach of the week or the hardware. Very. You know, it is we We need to really think through what it's really gonna take toe treat security as a primary thing, which means actually treating operations and infrastructure and the human processes piece of this, um, and slowed down a little bit. Um, and I always saw >> 11 lawmaker, one congressman's woman said, More regulation. >> Yeah, they don't want this. I don't think regulation is the right is the right thing. I don't know exactly what it is because I think >> regularly, we don't understand. That's Washington, DC, >> But but we're building a very, very, very fragile I T infrastructure. And so this is not a security problem. It's a It's a fact that we've built this Jenga tower of I t infrastructure, and we don't actually understand how it's built, Um, and that I don't see that slowing down. Unfortunately, >> unlike Las Vegas is, Mike pointed out, it's was built with purpose. They built the roads around the town. Mark, you live there now What's your thoughts on this capital? One piece ends and >> I have been said I would say that what I'm hoping sort of like when you have, ah, a lack of employees for a specific job type. Like right now in United States, it's incredibly difficult to find a truck driver if you're a trucking company, So what does that mean? But that means it's gonna accelerate automation and truck driving because that's the best alternative, right? If you can't solve it the old way, then you find a new way to solve it. And we have an enormous number of opportunity. He's from a process standpoint, but also, from a technology standpoint, did not build on this. Pardon my French crap that we have already >> they were digital. Then, when I ruled by the FCC, >> had build it the right way from the start. >> Well, you know what was soon? How about self driving security? We needed guys. Thanks for spending the time this cube talk. Keep conversation. Appreciate time. Mike, Rob mark. Thanks for kicking it off. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> You're watching Cute conversation with promote guests. Panel discussion Breaking down. How businesses should look at technology as part of their business. Cloud 2.0, security hacks and digital transformation Digital evolution. I'm John free. Thanks for watching.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is >> a cute conversation. Hey, welcome back. Get ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube. We're gonna rip out the studios for acute conversation. It's the middle of the summer, the conference season to slow down a little bit. So we get a chance to do more cute conversation, which is always great. Excited of our next guest. He's Ridge, IP, Ops Statik. He's a VP and GM from key. Cite, Reject. Great to see you. >> Thank you for hosting us. >> Yeah. So we've had Marie on a couple of times. We had Bethany on a long time ago before the for the acquisition. But for people that aren't familiar with key site, give us kind of a quick overview. >> Sure, sure. So I'm within the excess solutions group Exhale really started was founded back in 97. It I peered around 2000 really started as a test and measurement company quickly after the I poet became the number one vendor in the space, quickly grew around 2012 and 2013 and acquired two companies Net optics and an ooey and net optics and I knew we were in the visibility or monitoring space selling taps, bypass witches and network packet brokers. So that formed the Visibility Group with a nice Xia. And then around 2017 key cite acquired Xia and we became I S G or extra Solutions group. Now, key site is also a very large test and measurement company. It is the actual original HB startup that started in Palo Alto many years ago. An HB, of course, grew, um it also started as a test and measurement company. Then later on it, it became a get a gun to printers and servers. HB spun off as agile in't, agile in't became the test and measurement. And then around 2014 I would say, or 15 agile in't spun off the test and measurement portion that became key site agile in't continued as a life and life sciences organization. And so key sites really got the name around 2014 after spinning off and they acquired Xia in 2017. So more joy of the business is testing measurement. But we do have that visibility and monitoring organization to >> Okay, so you do the test of measurement really on devices and kind of pre production and master these things up to speed. And then you're actually did in doing the monitoring in life production? Yes, systems. >> Mostly. The only thing that I would add is that now we are getting into live network testing to we see that mostly in the service provider space. Before you turn on the service, you need to make sure that all the devices and all the service has come up correctly. But also we're seeing it in enterprises to, particularly with security assessments. So reach assessment attacks. Security is your eye to organization really protecting the network? So we're seeing that become more and more important than they're pulling in test, particularly for security in that area to so as you. As you say, it's mostly device testing. But then that's going to network infrastructure and security networks, >> Right? So you've been in the industry for a while, you're it. Until you've been through a couple acquisitions, you've seen a lot of trends, so there's a lot of big macro things happening right now in the industry. It's exciting times and one of the ones. Actually, you just talked about it at Cisco alive a couple weeks ago is EJ Computer. There's a lot of talk about edges. Ej the new cloud. You know how much compute can move to the edge? What do you do in a crazy oilfield? With hot temperatures and no powers? I wonder if you can share some of the observations about EJ. You're kind of point of view as to where we're heading. And what should people be thinking about when they're considering? Yeah, what does EJ mean to my business? >> Absolutely, absolutely. So when I say it's computing, I typically include Io TI agent. It works is along with remote and branch offices, and obviously we can see the impact of Io TI security cameras, thermal starts, smart homes, automation, factory automation, hospital animation. Even planes have sensors on their engines right now for monitoring purposes and diagnostics. So that's one group. But then we know in our everyday lives, enterprises are growing very quickly, and they have remote and branch offices. More people are working from remotely. More people were working from home, so that means that more data is being generated at the edge. What it's with coyote sensors, each computing we see with oil and gas companies, and so it doesn't really make sense to generate all that data. Then you know, just imagine a self driving car. You need to capture a lot of data and you need to process. It just got really just send it to the cloud. Expect a decision to mate and then come back and so that you turn left or right, you need to actually process all that data, right? We're at the edge where the source of the data is, and that means pushing more of that computer infrastructure closer to the source. That also means running business critical applications closer to the source. And that means, you know, um, it's it's more of, ah, madness, massively distributed computer architecture. Um, what happens is that you have to then reliably connect all these devices so connectivity becomes important. But as you distribute, compute as well as applications, your attack surface increases right. Because all of these devices are very vulnerable. We're probably adding about 5,000,000 I ot devices every day to our network, So that's a lot of I O T. Devices or age devices that we connect many of these devices. You know, we don't really properly test. You probably know from your own home when you can just buy something and could easily connect it to your wife. I Similarly, people buy something, go to their work and connect to their WiFi. Not that device is connected to your entire network. So vulnerabilities in any of these devices exposes the entire network to that same vulnerability. So our attack surfaces increasing, so connection reliability as well as security for all these devices is a challenge. So we enjoy each computing coyote branch on road officers. But it does pose those challenges. And that's what we're here to do with our tech partners. Toe sold these issues >> right? It's just instinct to me on the edge because you still have kind of the three big um, the three big, you know, computer things. You got the networking right, which is just gonna be addressed by five g and a lot better band with and connectivity. But you still have store and you still have compute. You got to get those things Power s o a cz. You're thinking about the distribution of that computer and store at the edge versus in the cloud and you've got the Leighton see issue. It seems like a pretty delicate balancing act that people are gonna have to tune these systems to figure out how much to allocate where, and you will have physical limitations at this. You know the G power plant with the sure by now the middle of nowhere. >> It's It's a great point, and you typically get agility at the edge. Obviously, don't have power because these devices are small. Even if you take a room order branch office with 52 2 100 employees, there's only so much compute that you have. But you mean you need to be able to make decisions quickly. They're so agility is there. But obviously the vast amounts of computer and storage is more in your centralized data center, whether it's in your private cloud or your public cloud. So how do you do the compromise? When do you run applications at the edge when you were in applications in the cloud or private or public? Is that in fact, a compromise and year You might have to balance it, and it might change all the time, just as you know, if you look at our traditional history off compute. He had the mainframes which were centralized, and then it became distributed, centralized, distributed. So this changes all the time and you have toe make decisions, which which brings up the issue off. I would say hybrid, I t. You know, they have the same issue. A lot of enterprises have more of a, um, hybrid I t strategy or multi cloud. Where do you run the applications? Even if you forget about the age even on, do you run an on Prem? Do you run in the public cloud? Do you move it between class service providers? Even that is a small optimization problem. It's now even Matt bigger with H computer. >> Right? So the other thing that we've seen time and time again a huge trend, right? It's software to find, um, we've seen it in the networking space to compete based. It's offered to find us such a big write such a big deal now and you've seen that. So when you look at it from a test a measurement and when people are building out these devices, you know, obviously aton of great functional capability is suddenly available to people, but in terms of challenges and in terms of what you're thinking about in software defined from from you guys, because you're testing and measuring all this stuff, what's the goodness with the badness house for people, you really think about the challenges of software defined to take advantage of the tremendous opportunity. >> That's a really good point. I would say that with so far defined it working What we're really seeing is this aggregation typically had these monolithic devices that you would purchase from one vendor. That wonder vendor would guarantee that everything just works perfectly. What software defined it working, allows or has created is this desegregated model. Now you have. You can take that monolithic application and whether it's a server or a hardware infrastructure, then maybe you have a hyper visor or so software layer hardware, abstraction, layers and many, many layers. Well, if you're trying to get that toe work reliably, this means that now, in a way, the responsibility is on you to make sure that you test every all of these. Make sure that everything just works together because now we have choice. Which software packages should I install from which Bender This is always a slight differences. Which net Nick Bender should I use? If PJ smart Nick Regular Nick, you go up to the layer of what kind of ax elation should I use? D. P. D K. There's so many options you are responsible so that with S T N, you do get the advantage of opportunity off choice, just like on our servers and our PCs. But this means that you do have to test everything, make sure that everything works. So this means more testing at the device level, more testing at the service being up. So that's the predeployment stage and wants to deploy the service. Now you have to continually monitor it to make sure that it's working as you expected. So you get more choice, more diversity. And, of course, with segregation, you can take advantage of improvements on the hardware layer of the software layer. So there's that the segregation advantage. But it means more work on test as well as monitoring. So you know there's there's always a compromise >> trade off. Yeah, so different topic is security. Um, weird Arcee. This year we're in the four scout booth at a great chat with Michael the Caesars Yo there. And he talked about, you know, you talk a little bit about increasing surface area for attack, and then, you know, we all know the statistics of how long it takes people to know that they've been reach its center center. But Mike is funny. He you know, they have very simple sales pitch. They basically put their sniffer on your network and tell you that you got eight times more devices on the network than you thought. Because people are connecting all right, all types of things. So when you look at, you know, kind of monitoring test, especially with these increased surface area of all these, Iet devices, especially with bring your own devices. And it's funny, the H v A c seemed to be a really great place for bad guys to get in. And I heard the other day a casino at a casino, uh, connected thermometer in a fish tank in the lobby was the access point. How is just kind of changing your guys world, you know, how do you think about security? Because it seems like in the end, everyone seems to be getting he breached at some point in time. So it's almost Maur. How fast can you catch it? How do you minimize the damage? How do you take care of it versus this assumption that you can stop the reaches? You >> know, that was a really good point that you mentioned at the end, which is it's just better to assume that you will be breached at some point. And how quickly can you detect that? Because, on average, I think, according to research, it takes enterprise about six months. Of course, they're enterprise that are takes about a couple of years before they realize. And, you know, we hear this on the news about millions of records exposed billions of dollars of market cap loss. Four. Scout. It's a very close take partner, and we typically use deploy solutions together with these technology partners, whether it's a PM in P. M. But very importantly, security, and if you think about it, there's terabytes of data in the network. Typically, many of these tools look at the packet data, but you can't really just take those terabytes of data and just through it at all the tools, it just becomes a financially impossible toe provide security and deploy such tools in a very large network. So where this is where we come in and we were the taps, we access the data where the package workers was essentially groom it, filtering down to maybe tens or hundreds of gigs that that's really, really important. And then we feed it, feed it to our take partners such as Four Scout and many of the others. That way they can. They can focus on providing security by looking at the packets that really matter. For example, you know some some solutions only. Look, I need to look at the package header. You don't really need to see the send the payload. So if somebody is streaming Netflix or YouTube, maybe you just need to send the first mega byte of data not the whole hundreds of gigs over that to our video, so that allows them to. It allows us or helps us increase the efficiency of that tool. So the end customer can actually get a good R Y on that on that investment, and it allows for Scott to really look at or any of the tech partners to look at what's really important let me do a better job of investigating. Hey, have I been hacked? And of course, it has to be state full, meaning that it's not just looking at flow on one data flow on one side, looking at the whole communication. So you can understand What is this? A malicious application that is now done downloading other malicious applications and infiltrating my system? Is that a DDOS attack? Is it a hack? It's, Ah, there's a hole, equal system off attacks. And that's where we have so many companies in this in this space, many startups. >> It's interesting We had Tom Siebel on a little while ago actually had a W s event and his his explanation of what big data means is that there's no sampling air. And we often hear that, you know, we used to kind of prior to big day, two days we would take a sample of data after the fact and then tried to to do someone understanding where now the more popular is now we have a real time streaming engines. So now we're getting all the data basically instantaneously in making decisions. But what you just bring out is you don't necessarily want all the data all the time because it could. It can overwhelm its stress to Syria. That needs to be a much better management approach to that. And as I look at some of the notes, you know, you guys were now deploying 400 gigabit. That's right, which is bananas, because it seems like only yesterday that 100 gigabyte Ethan, that was a big deal a little bit about, you know, kind of the just hard core technology changes that are impacting data centers and deployments. And as this band with goes through the ceiling, what people are physically having to do, do it. >> Sure, sure, it's amazing how it took some time to go from 1 to 10 gig and then turning into 40 gig, but that that time frame is getting shorter and shorter from 48 2 108 100 to 400. I don't even know how we're going to get to the next phase because the demand is there and the demand is coming from a number of Trans really wants five G or the preparation for five G. A lot of service providers are started to do trials and they're up to upgrading that infrastructure because five G is gonna make it easier to access state of age quickly invest amounts of data. Whenever you make something easy for the consumer, they will consume it more. So that's one aspect of it. The preparation for five GS increasing the need for band with an infrastructure overhaul. The other piece is that we're with the neutralization. We're generating more Eastern West traffic, but because we're distributed with its computing, that East West traffic can still traverse data centers and geography. So this means that it's not just contained within a server or within Iraq. It actually just go to different locations. That also means your data center into interconnect has to support 400 gig. So a lot of network of hitmen manufacturers were typically call them. Names are are releasing are about to release 400 devices. So on the test side, they use our solutions to test these devices, obviously, because they want to release it based the standards to make sure that it works on. So that's the pre deployment phase. But once these foreign jiggy devices are deployed and typically service providers, but we're start slowly starting to see large enterprises deploy it as a mention because because of visualization and computing, then the question is, how do you make sure that your 400 gig infrastructure is operating at the capacity that you want in P. M. A. P M. As well as you're providing security? So there's a pre deployment phase that we help on the test side and then post deployment monitoring face. But five G is a big one, even though we're not. Actually we haven't turned on five year service is there's tremendous investment going on. In fact, key site. The larger organization is helping with a lot of these device testing, too. So it's not just Xia but key site. It's consume a lot of all of our time just because we're having a lot of engagements on the cellphone side. Uh, you know, decide endpoint side. It's a very interesting time that we're living in because the changes are becoming more and more frequent and it's very hot, so adapt and make sure that you're leading that leading that wave. >> In preparing for this, I saw you in another video camera. Which one it was, but your quote was you know, they didn't create electricity by improving candles. Every line I'm gonna steal it. I'll give you credit. But as you look back, I mean, I don't think most people really grown to the step function. Five g, you know, and they talk about five senior fun. It's not about your phone. It says this is the first kind of network built four machines. That's right. Machine data, the speed machine data and the quantity of Mr Sheen data. As you sit back, What kind of reflectively Again? You've been in this business for a while and you look at five G. You're sitting around talking to your to your friends at a party. So maybe some family members aren't in the business. How do you How do you tell them what this means? I mean, what are people not really seeing when they're just thinking it's just gonna be a handset upgrade there, completely missing the boat? >> Yeah, I think for the for the regular consumer, they just think it's another handset. You know, I went from three G's to 40 year. I got I saw bump in speed, and, you know, uh, some handset manufacturers are actually advertising five G capable handsets. So I'm just going to be out by another cell phone behind the curtain under the hurt. There's this massive infrastructure overhaul that a lot of service providers are going through. And it's scary because I would say that a lot of them are not necessarily prepared. The investment that's pouring in is staggering. The help that they need is one area that we're trying to accommodate because the end cell towers are being replaced. The end devices are being replaced. The data centers are being upgraded. Small South sites, you know, Um, there's there's, uh how do you provide coverage? What is the killer use case? Most likely is probably gonna be manufacturing just because it's, as you said mission to make mission machine learning Well, that's your machine to mission communication. That's where the connected hospitals connected. Manufacturing will come into play, and it's just all this machine machine communication, um, generating vast amounts of data and that goes ties back to that each computing where the edge is generating the data. But you then send some of that data not all of it, but some of that data to a centralized cloud and you develop essentially machine learning algorithms, which you then push back to the edge. The edge becomes a more intelligent and we get better productivity. But it's all machine to machine communication that, you know, I would say that more of the most of the five communication is gonna be much information communication. Some small portion will be the consumers just face timing or messaging and streaming. But that's gonna be there exactly. Exactly. That's going to change. I'm of course, we'll see other changes in our day to day lives. You know, a couple of companies attempted live gaming on the cloud in the >> past. It didn't really work out just because the network latency was not there. But we'll see that, too, and was seeing some of the products coming out from the lecture of Google into the company's where they're trying to push gaming to be in the cloud. It's something that we were not really successful in the past, so those are things that I think consumers will see Maur in their day to day lives. But the bigger impact is gonna be for the for the enterprise >> or jet. Thanks for ah, for taking some time and sharing your insight. You know, you guys get to see a lot of stuff. You've been in the industry for a while. You get to test all the new equipment that they're building. So you guys have a really interesting captaincy toe watches developments. Really exciting times. >> Thank you for inviting us. Great to be here. >> All right, Easier. Jeff. Jeff, you're watching the Cube. Where? Cube studios and fellow out there. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barters >> Welcome back. We're here, Cisco Live San Diego. You're watching the Cubans to minimum. My co host is Dave Volante and happy to welcome to the program. First of all, I have to tell Valente, no relation was the vice president of product management who are Cloud Platform in Solutions group at Cisco. And joining us is also Santana Dasgupta, who's a distinguished systems engineer at Cisco. We're gonna be talking about service Friday. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Of course. Alright, so jail let let's start the service. Freida Group, Of course. You know, we've heard for a long time how important service fighters are out there. Everything from service writers were going to become the new channel. A Sze Yu know customers less unless they're building their own data centers. You know, service fighters become a bigger environment. Tell us a little bit about you know your organ the latest What's going on in your customers? >> Yeah, So you know what? Cisco Obviously they are trying to help Ray in the transformation to actually multi cloud leveraging. Actually, the cloud benefits not only for enterprises and public sectors, but also for the service providers so that they can also reaped the benefit off the new actually trans technologies coming out, including five g on in that context. Obviously, if you really want to take advantage of Far Gina proper way going forward, starting actually with an evolution of architectures, you really have to look at the clouds and specifically what we call the telco cloud. >> Yeah, so the Espy market is going through a mass killed transformation, transformation in the business model and architecture and how you take the services to the market on one key. And it blew up the transformation that we believe is virtual elation, adopting the whole notion of telco cloud very virtualized your core functions for enabling the delivery of services in a more agile fashion into the market. But also it's all about transforming the court services construct itself. How do we push on the services element into the age of the net for being closer to the proximity of the Indians so that it enables much? Lord didn't see a new monitor visible applications, which is where service order to have a lot of open right now. >> So if I could just dig in on that for 1st 2nd you talk about services. So we watched that wave of network functions virtual ization, NFI where before it was I just had lots of appliances and rolling out each service individually, as opposed to what people want is they want, you know, the basically, you know, at market for the enterprise. And, you know, I just want to be able to get my services. You know, when I'm a consumer and you know, I want to do things well, I've got the Internet and I get those things. I need a similar environment from the service fighters going out to the Enterprise. Do I have that kind of high level, right? >> Yes, actually, we had on that bath. I mean, they're completely years as an industry were on the journey to actually get there on go. We initially talked about most of the core functions, like think ofthe armory packet corner policy or some some value added engine at the back end. But the world is evolving faster. To actually also think through that how we can add more consumer facing applications and services on top of it, like augmented reality, virtual reality, cloud gaming and all that sort >> of stuff. Dale, this is a real imperative for telcos, and it's a complicated situation, right, because they've got decades and decades of infrastructure built up. Don Tapscott famously said one time that God may have created the world in six days, but he didn't have an install base. And so the telcos they have of kind of a fossilized, hard installed based built around making sure it's up and not necessarily agile. Now you got all these over the top players coming in, and all these value other services on top of dumb pipe, the price is air coming down. The demand for data is going up, so they gotta change. That's right, right? So what? What do they have to do and what role this Cisco play? >> So again, it told about that software defined transformation and win that is required. And they, you know, we talked already a bit more about the record, an example that was actually even showcase briefly this morning because certainly, obviously it's a greenfield operator, so it's a bit of difference, but We think that there is a lot off applique ability to brown field as well tow the legacy. You have to actually chuck into the different domains what, that service provider environment and really start looking at how you can offer both consumer services and business services at a price point at a level of automation and agility that makes sense. And that is pretty much comparable to a large extent to what the cloud providers of the week. Um, you know, there are advantages the service providers hive in terms ofthe. Obviously, the services they deliver today thie assets that they own, the proximity, the locations as well, that they have the relationships. But really, there is a, as we said earlier, Nassif transformation that start with the network, but also with those pockets where you need to Software eyes will turn to software many of those assets >> essentially talking about a specialized telco cloud, if you will. So how is that different from you know, the clouds that we know the private clouds, the hybrid clouds, the public clouds, one of the attributes that are different in how do people get on the company's getting telcos? Get in that journey. >> Yeah, well, I mean, if you look at, uh, the telco industry in general, including ourselves, like the vendors. I mean, I call myself for ourselves as, like, you know, coming back from the era of dinosaurs, right? So, I mean, if you look at the access technology for last three decades, what have changed? Nothing way have been moving from one G Tito Tito treaty to 40. Now we're talking a five g without talking off. A fundamentally destructive are differentiated architecture. So that's something which is actually being coming up all in the front front at the moment on, that's changing the way the networks can be built. How you can build on how you can break the monolithic supplication and adopt a more decomposed, desegregated our conjecture and also, at the same time, drive all the services and applications in a more distributed manner with a flexible placement capability, so that you can enable all sort of new applications and services. And again, I mean at the other. And given the fact that this is mostly a brown Fillon moment, it is largely all about culture transformation, given the fact that you know, unless the people process on, the culture revolves. This would be a very tough journey. Moving for >> one of the point back to your question is wellies. Though there are nuances big ones between a 90 cloud, uh, today in the cloud that are generally club general purpose Cloud that offered, you know, buy are obviously partners ws Microsoft, Google it and really a telco clan based on the nature ofthe those network functions. The workload on the nature of this were close. The traffic demand that they have the understanding or cliff There are how the hardware itself or the underpinning the infrastructure needs to have some specific attributes to make this work at scale. But we're trying to mimic as much as possible the scaling capabilities, the flexibility, agility, the elasticity of a cloud so that service providers can read the prophet off pretty much a general cloud >> involvement. Conceptually, there are a lot of similar out similarities. I presume that from a developer standpoint, there's a Dev ops analog, analog, maybe a cloud native, maybe serve earless. Something like server list functions absolutely in Telco cloud. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So what we see is the idea under Telco World are actually coming together because I need a lot ofthe telco expertise were also at the same time. I need a lot of expertise because that's what exact exactly right now happening. I mean, there's some fundamental differences between a standard righty private, our hybrid Claude and tell the cloud like I deploy our thousands or hundreds of locations are set a few locations. The applications are different. It's highly Io intensive. You're dealing with a lot of packets like millions of packets which are mostly are transiting function going in and out. But having said that while this initial deployment wave is being targeted for mostly for those delicate type of obligations, we're seeing a very clear demand on a journey towards a common goal of setting up our one unified cloud, right so that you can host it and telco all in the same cloud on that's exactly what they want sexually takes a reality. >> Well, in one of the things I'm surprised we haven't touched on yet is EJ Computing is, you know, critical for these environment. And I can't just have bespoke solutions for all of them. From my corrida edge toe, you know, Telco, there need to be communications amongst all of these because data is going to flow between them and therefore, it can't be. You know, Moz, in between them, I need to be able to pass data and have my applications access these various pieces. >> Absolutely. In fact, the way we have he'll concede some of the systems is a unified architecture that is distributed as a Delco plowed. So that actually from the new service managers or the new ways says B. S s. They see, actually, one unified cloud with placement capabilities based on constraints where you can actually put the workload where they need to be based on Soleil is based on the requirements in technical resources that are available, you know, from forage to a central DC and all the way to actually a public cloud because we're starting seeing some of the customers around the world. It's really a massive transformation that is global. Some of them are starting to look at how they can leverage the public cloud for bursting purposes, for disaster recovery, or even for other functions for specific applications that maybe less demanding, actually on the side. >> Well, since I know you were talking about how that one of the differences that hell cozier more distributed, you know, greater io intensity. My question is, can we learn from the telco clouds from a security model standpoint? Because normally if they go tell coz we're kind of behind traditional i t. But from a security model astounds maybe more challenging. And you always hear the traditional i t. So we it's going to the edge, the telcos already there. So is the security model actually more advanced than what can we learn from that? And how is it >> evolving? Yeah, the security model is still evolving. So in fact, I would say for the total cloud which is being done at the more Court Central Data Center location, the security model is pretty advanced. But when things go towards the edge, especially its computing, which is huge, the security model is actually evolving. And we see a lot of promises with things such as, you know, secure chain of trust, or even block Chinn actually coming there and trying to play a huge role. So I think that's one area which we expected you all over the next few years. It's a lot of challenge but also you know, it's very exciting in that particular space. >> And actually those. This is a very key point because that infrastructure from service providers is actually usually many of the country's part of the national assets the cyber securities. The agencies in those countries work actually with Cisco Security Trust officer letters to really make sure that we do have a level of security that goes beyond maybe even the boundaries of what we've seen on enterprise. So yes, to your point, there is a lot of advances in that area as well. >> All right, so jail, half the shows I've been to this year have had a breakout for Telco. There's there's no denying that there's a lot of growth and a lot of change happening in that environment. What differentiates Cisco's approach from the rest of the people looking at the multi cloud and software pieces >> so more people are murky? Pool area is first. Obviously we have these murky cloud or this hybrid cloud view in which we have worked with the best out there. The Web scale providers, the cloud providers. In fact, if I look at racket and others there are even mimicking this notion off a sorry the Google approach to, you know, really the reliability enginering the transformation off those class cloud in a very specific way. Theater aspect is we're doing it. We have a holistic view at the Telco Cloud. It's not just the infrastructure, it's the automation. The automation is absolutely critical that there is absolutely no touch from humans to be able actually to manage of that scale even more so if you deploy it in 1,000 of edge points, it has to be completely actually automated. So the aspect ofthe automation, the aspect of security, the aspect of people transformation, organizational as well is something that, between the service component to this other solution and the products is very unique. And what we do, it's Cisco. >> Yeah, if I may just add one thing on top of that, just chill said right. So if you look at our playing the Espy or telco market, we have a comprehensive solution. We are solutions right from routing Optical Jacinto Compute Telco, Claude Watch television automation, melodic or being gcm. Here's a bunch of stuff, right? But what becomes very interesting is if you look at 55 g and we all are talking up. The five G is going to be all about enterprise services now. Think about it for a while, right? Who is the number one dominant player in the market for a better price, with the deepest portfolio absolution and the farthest reaching there? No price market that Cisco. So that's what we believe, that we can actually really, you know, creator right confluence of border side of the technology to create the right offer for our customers and held them to take to the market. >> In fact, we've taken a number off our very large enterprise customers that journey to understand, from their point of view as well how they could leverage five g wife like six in the context off a mobile first cloud first type environment. And it's across permeates, actually, obviously what those service providers need to offer to grow again beyond customer services, which is not where, actually the you know, the hyper growth will be as faras Service school sir, >> Well, jail in Santa Ana. Thank you so much for sharing the updates. What happened? Tell Cho service provider space. Thanks so much for joining us. Everybody alright, We'll be back with lots more water wall coverage here at Cisco alive. San Diego 2019 for David Dante on stew Minimum. And thank you for what? Thank you.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue. Now here's your host. Still minimum. >> I'm stupid, Aman and this is a cube conversation from our Boston area studio. We spent a lot of time talking about digital transformation. Of course, At the center of that digital transformations data this segment We're going to be talking about the data integration platform. Joining me for that segment is Itamar on Cory on Who's the senior vice president of enterprise data Integration with Click. Thanks so much for joining me. >> Thanks to left me here. >> All right, so a zay just said, you know the customers, you know, digital information when you talked to any user, you know, there there's some that might say, Oh, there's a little bit of hyper I don't understand it, but really leveraging that data, you know, there are very few places that that is not core toe what they need to do, and if they're not doing it, they're competition will do it. So can you bring us inside a little bit? That customers you're talking to that, that you know where that fits into their business needs and you know how the data integration platform, you know, helps them solve that issue. >> Absolutely so, As you mentioned, the diesel transformation is driving a lot ofthe innovation, a lot off efforts by corporations and virtually any organization that we're talking. Toa seize data is a core component off, enabling the little transformation. The data creates new analytics, and there was toe power, the digital transformation, whether it's in making better decisions, whether it's embedding the analytics and the intelligence into business processes and custom applications to ever to reach the experience and make it better. So data becomes key, and the more data you can make available through the process, the faster you can make a development in the process. The faster you can adapt your process to accommodate the changes, the better it will be. So we're saying organization, virtually all of them looking to modernize their day, the strategy and the day, the platforms in order to accommodate these needs. >> Yeah, it's such a complex issue. We've we've been at, you know, chief data officer events way, talk about data initiatives. You know, we worry a little bit that the sea seats sometimes here it's like up. They heard data is the new oil and they came and they said, You know, according to the magazine I read, you need we need to have a date, a strategy, and give me the value of data. But, you know, where is the rubber hitting the road? You know what? What are some of those steps that they're taking? You know, how do I help, you know, get my arms around the data and that help make sure it can move along that spectrum from kind of the raw or two, you know, real value. >> I think you made a great point. Talking about the or to value our as we refer to it is a road to ready. And part of the whole innovation that we're seeing is the modernization of the platform where organizations are looking to tap into the tremendous amount of data that is available today. So a couple of things have happened first in the last decade. First of all, we have significantly more data. It is available and and then ever before, because of digitization, off data and new sources become available. But beyond that, we have the technology is the platforms that can both store in process large amounts of data. So we have foundations. But in the end, to make it happen, we need to get all the data to where we want to analyze it and find a way to put it together and turning from more row material into ready, material ready products that can be consumed. And that's really where the challenges and we're seeing. A lot of organizations, especially the CEO Seo the animals, architecture and First data architecture, teams on a journey to understand how to put together these kind of architectures and data systems. And that's where without data integration platform, we focused on accommodating the new challenges they have encountered in trying to make that happen. >> Yeah, help us unpack a little bit, You know, a here today. You know, it's the economy. Everything should work together when I rolled out. You know, in our company, you know, the industries leading serum, it's like, Oh, I've got hundreds of data sources and hundreds of tools I could put together, and it should be really easy for me to just, you know, allow my data to flow and get to the right place. But I always always find a lot a lot of times that that easy. But I've been having a hard time finding that so so >> that that's a good point. And if you cannot takes the bag, understand water, this side of the court challenges or the new needs that we're seeing because we talk about the transformation and more than analytics field by data being part of it. More analytics created a new type of challenges that didn't exist before and therefore kind of traditional data integration tools didn't do the job they didn't meet. Those model needs me very touched on a few of those. So, first of all, and people, when customers are implementing more than analytics many times where they refer to escape well they're trying to do is to do a I machine learning. We'LL use those terms and we talk about him but machine learning and I get smarter, the more data you give them. So it's all about the scale of data, and what we're seeing with customers is where if in the past data warehouse system, but if typically had five ten twenty, they the source is going into it. When I was saying one hundred X uh, times that number of sources. So we have customers that worked with five hundred six hundred, some over two thousand source of data feeding the data analytics system. So scale becomes a critical need and we talk about scale. You need the ability to bring data from hundreds or thousands of sources so systems efficiently with very low impact and ideally, do it also with less resources. Because again, you need to scale the second second chair and you ran in tow s to do with the fact that more than analytics for many organizations means real Time analytics or streaming analytics. So they wantto be ableto process data in real time. In response for that, to do that, you need away toe move data, capture it in real time and be able to make it available and do that in a very economic fashion. And then the third one is in order to deal with the scare in order to deal with the agility that the customers want. The question is, well, are they doing the analytics? And many of them are adopting the cloud, and we've been seeing multicoloured adoption. So in order to get data to the cloud. Now you're dealing with the challenge of efficiency. I have limited network band with. I have a lot of data that I need to move around. How can I move all of that and do that more efficiently? And, uh, the only thing that would add to that is that beyond that, the mechanics of how you move the data with scale, with efficiency even in real time there's also how you approach the process where the whole solution is to beware. What a join those the operations you can implement and accommodate any type of architecture. I need to have a platform that you may choose and we sink us was changed those overtime. So I need a breather to be agile and flexible. >> Yeah, well, ah, Lotto unpack there because, you know, I just made the comment. You know, if you talk about us humans, the more data we give them doesn't mean I'm actually going to get better. It's I need to We need to be able to have those tool ings in there to be able to have that data and help give me the insights, which then I could do on otherwise, you know, we understand most people. It's like if I have to make decisions or choices and I get more thrown at me, there's less and less likelihood that I can do on that on boy the Data Lakes. Yeah, I I remember the first time I heard Data Lakes. It was, you know, we talked about what infrastructure rebuilding, and now the last couple of years, the cloud public cloud tends to be a big piece of it. Even though we know data is goingto live everywhere, you know everything, not just public private ground. But EJ gets into a piece of it so that you know that the data integration platform, you know how easy it for customers get started on that We'LL talk about that diversity of everything else, you know, Where do they start? Give me a little bit of kind of customer journey, if you would. And maybe even if you have a customer example that that would be a great way to go illustrated. >> Absolutely so First of all, it's a journey, and I think that journey started quite a few years ago. I mean, do it is now over ten years old, and they were actually seeing a big change in shifting the market from what was initially the Duke ecosystem into a much brother sort of technology's, especially with the cloud in order to store and process large scales of data. So the journey customs we're going through with a few years, which were very experimental customers were trying trying it on for size. They were trying to understand how Toby the process around it, the solutions of them ivory batch oriented with may produce back in the early days off. But when you look at it today, it's a very it's already evolved significantly, and you're saying this big data systems needing to support different and diverse type off workloads. Some of them are michelle machine learning and sign. Some of them are streaming in the Olympics. Some of them are serving data for micro services toe parad, Egil applications. So there's a lot of need for the data in the journey, and what we're seeing is that customers as they move through this journey, they sometimes need to people and they need if they find you technology that come out and they had the ability to be able to accommodate, to adapt and adopt new technologies as they go through. It s so that's kind of the journey we have worked with our customers through. And as they evolved, once they figured it out, this scale came along. So it's very common to see a customer start with a smaller project and then scale it up. So for many of the cost me worked with, that's how it worked out. And you ask for an example. So one of her customers this month, the world's largest automotive companies, and they decided to have a strategy to turn what they believe is a huge asset they have, which is data. But the data is in a lot of silos across manufacturing facility supply facilities and others inventory and bring it all together into one place. Combined data with data to bring from the car itself and by having all the data in one place, be able to derive new insights into information that they they can use as well as potentially sale or monetizing other other ways. So as they got started, they initially start by running it out to set a number off their data data centers and their source of information manufacturing facilities. So they started small. But then very quickly, once they figured out they can do it fast and figure out the process to scale it. Today, there are over five hundred systems they have. Martha is over two hundred billion changes in data being fed daily. Okay, enter their Data lake. So it's a very, very large scale system. I feel we can talk about what it takes to put together something so big. >> Yeah. Don't pleaded. Please take the next step. That would that would be perfect. >> Okay, so I think whether the key things customers have to understand, uh, you were saying that the enterprise architecture teams is that when you need to scale, you need to change the way you think about things. And in the end of the day, there are two fundamental differences in the approach and the other light technology that enabled that. So we talked earlier about the little things help for the mind to understand. Now I'm going to focus on and hide it. Only two that should be easy to take away. First is that they're the move from bench to real time or from batch tow. The Delta to the changes. Traditionally, data integration was done in the best process. You reload the data today if you want to scale. If you want to work in a real time, you need to work based on the Delta on the change, the fundamental technology behind it. It's called change data capture, and it's like technology and approach. It allows you to find and identify only the changes on the enterprise data systems and imagine all the innovation you can get by capturing, imposing or the change is. First of all, you have a significant impact on the systems. Okay, so we can scale because you were moving less data. It's very efficient as you move the data around because it's only a fraction off the data, and it could be real time because again, you capturing the data as it changes. So they move from bitch to real time or to streaming data based on changes. The capture is fundamental, fundamental in creating a more than their integration environment. >> I'm assuming there's an initial load that has to go in something like that, >> correct. But he did that once and then for the rest of the time you're really moving onto the deltas. The second difference, toe one was get moving from batch toe streaming based on change. The capture and the second eyes how you approach building it, which is moving from a development. Let platform to automation. So through automation, you could take workloads that have traditionally being in the realm ofthe the developer and allow people with out development skills to be able to implement such solutions very quickly. So again, the move from developer toe toe configuration based automation based products or what we've done opportunity is First, we have been one of the pioneers in the innovators in change that I capture technology. So the platform that now it's part of the clique that integration plan from brings with it okay over fifteen years off innovation and optimization change their capture with the broader set of data sources that our support there, with lots of optimization ranging from data sources like sickle server and Oracle, the mainstream toe mainframes and to escape system. And then one of the key focus with the head is how do we take complex processes and ultimatum. So from a user perspective, you can click a few buttons, then few knobs, and you have the optimize solution available for making data moving data across that they're very sets off systems. So through moving on to the Delta and the automation, you allow this cape. >> So a lot of the systems I'm familiar with it's the metadata you know, comes in the system. I don't have to as an admin or somebody's setting that up. I don't have to do all of this or even if you think about you know, the way I think of photos these days. It used to be. I took photos and trying to sort them was, you know, ridiculous. Now, my, you know, my apple or Google, you know, normally facial recognition, but timestamp location, all those things I can sort it and find it. You know, it's built into the system >> absolutely in the metadata is critical to us to the whole process. First of all, because when you bring data from one system to another system, somebody's to understand their data. And the process of getting data into a lake and into a data warehouse is becoming a multi step day the pipeline, and in order to trust the data and understanding that you need to understand all the steps that they went through. And we also see different teams taking part in this process. So for it seemed to be able to pick up the data and work on it, it needs to understand its meta data. By the way, this is also where the click their integration platform bring together the unity software. Together with Click the catalyst, we'LL provide unique value proposition for you that because you have the ability to capture changed data as it changes, deliver that data virtually anywhere. Any data lake, any cloud platform, any analytic platform. And then we find the data to generate analytic ready data sets and together with the click data Catalyst, create derivative data sets and publish all of their for a catalogue that makes it really easy to understand which data exists and how to use it. So we have an end to end solution for streaming data pipelines that generate analytic data that data sets for the end of the day, wrote to ready an accelerated fashion. >> So, Itamar, your customers of the world that out, How did they measures Casesa? Their critical KP eyes is there You know some, you know, journey, you know, math that they help go along. You know what? What? What are some commonalities? >> So it's a great question. And naturally, for many organizations, it's about an arrow. I It's about total cost of ownership. It seeing result, as I mentioned earlier, agility and the timeto value is really changing. Customers are looking to get results within a matter of, if very few month and even sometimes weeks versus what it used to be, which is many months and sometimes even years. So again, the whole point is to do with much, much faster. So from a metric for success, what we're seeing his customers that buy our solution toe enable again large scale strategic initiatives where they have dozens to hundreds of data sources. One of the key metrics is how many data sources heavy onboard that heavy, made available. How many in the end of the data sets that already analytic ready have we published or made available Torrey Tor users and I'LL give you an example. Another example from one of for customers, very large corporation in the United States in the opportunity of after trying to move to the cloud and build a cloud Data Lake and analytic platform. In the two years they're able to move to two three data sets to the cloud after they try, they knew they'd integration platform okay, there. But they moved thirty day The sits within three months, so completely different result. And the other thing that they pointed out and actually talk about their solution is that unlike traditional data integration software, and they took an example of one of those traditional PTL platforms and they pointed out it takes seven months to get a new person skilled on that platform. Okay, with our data integration platform, they could do that in a matter of hours to a few days. So again, the ability to get results much faster is completely different. When you have that kind of software that goes back to a dimension about automation versus development based mouth now, >> it really seems like the industry's going through another step function, just as we saw from traditional data warehouses. Tto win. Who? Duke rolled out that just the order of magnitude, how long it took and the business value return Seems like we're we're going through yet another step function there. So final thing. Yeah, You know what? Some of the first things that people usually get started with any final takeaways you want to share? >> Sure. First, for what people are starting to work with. Is there usually selecting a platform of choice where they're gonna get started in respect of whether Iran analytics and the one take a way I'LL give customers is don't assume that the platform you chose is we're going to end up because new technologies come to market, a new options come. Customers are having mergers, acquisitions, so things change all the time. And as you plan, make sure you have the right infrastructure toe allow you two kind of people support and make changes as you move through the throw. These are innovation. So they may be key key takeaway. And the other one is make sure that you're feeling the right infrastructure that can accommodate speed in terms of real time accomodate scale. Okay, in terms of both enabling data legs, letting cloud data stores having the right efficiency to scale, and then anything agility in respect to being able to deploy solution much, much faster. Yeah, >> well, tomorrow I think that. That's some real important things to say. Well, we know that the only constant Internet industry is change on DH. Therefore, we need to have solutions that can help keep up with that on and be able to manage those environments. And, you know, the the role of is to be able to respond to those needs of the business fast. Because if I don't choose the right thing, the business will go elsewhere. Tara trying to fuck with Angelo. Thank you so much for sharing all the latest on the immigration data platforms. Thank you. Alright, Uh, always lots more on the cube dot Net comes to minimum is always thanks for watching.

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> We're back in Del Technologies world. All the action. Fifteen thousand people here. You watching the Cube? The leader in live tech coverage? My name is Dave. Along time here with my co host student, um, in Walter Wall coverage. Drew Schulke is here Vice president of networking product Management at Del Technologies. Good to see you, Drew. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're very welcome. Text coming on. So we're talking networking. It's been an exploding business for you guys. I mean, it's one of the really shining stars of of the portfolio. We're gonna talk a little bit about why, but go back a little bit. Talk about some of the trends and networking over the past several years. Obviously, cloud is changing the way people are looking at networks here, this multi cloud thing, What's going on? >> Well, I think we won the clock back five years ago because that's what I think. We have this seminal moment in networking where we as at the time Della now Delhi emcee took an unprecedented step to say we wanted to segregate the networking stack, for We want the hardware discussion in the software discussion around networking to be distinct on DH. It wasn't, you know, novel for the network at the time, but for the rest of the industry, if you think about the way storage and servers and virtual ization head of all, not really novel. So we were really kind of playing catch up from a networking perspective, and that really opened up a whole new era of covering for us in terms of what we were doing as a networking vendor. You also look at what some of the big hyper scale companies were trying to do with their own networks. And there was this great synergy to put together this cloud computing era networking stack that was fundamentally different than what we've seen for the past twenty years. And we've just seen a massive wave of adoption and moving to this open this aggregated and software to find network ever since. >> So stools up more of a networking guy than I am, he explained to me years ago. Dave, with the Clouds Network's gonna flatten Travis going to go east west, not so much north south, he would draw the diagrams. What did that mean from a from a product perspective for you guys. >> What a member of a proper perspective for us is that we wanted to focus on to your point. This modern networking design, which is you're going to talk about the fabrics. It's all about the fabrics, which is the way we put together that network in the data center to facilitate all that east West traffic. And done correctly, it can scale toe on a massive scale. This is what all the biggest hyper skills air out there running today to support their cloud data centers, which have thousands of servers and thousands of switch, is behind it. So it's a proven model. It could be very, very effective, and ultimately, just in terms of its approach and architecture, the total cost of ownership is significantly lower than what we saw you for the previous twenty years. And then >> just true. It's really interesting, you know, that the challenger of Time is absolutely these distributed systems and it is dis aggregating. At the same time, customers are looking forward to be simplified and, you know, if you can pull things together on DH you look at You know, what I heard on the stage this morning is a lot of the cloud messaging was it was Del Plus Veum wear and partners there to put together that entire solution from a customer. I can't say OK, well, let me get a box and lend me light, load some operating system and take all these other pieces. I can't be building the stack and putting all of these pieces together. So explain how while you're dis aggregating at the end of the day, this is going to be simpler for customers. And operationally, it's something that they shouldn't have to touch too much >> so But by desegregating way, let the software guys do with the software guys do, which is software and software is a powerful tool when it comes to the network that was never really fully tapped until we opened up the switch and allowed it to be, you know, agnostic to the software that was running on top of it. So let me bring up a case in point. Big switch, A big partner of ours who had a big announcement a couple days ago where we're actually entering into an OM agreement. They've got a strong presence here, you know, through their software in that fabric that very, very large and complex fabric. They've done a great job in terms of making that fabric appear to be much simpler than it really is. And it's all about the way you present it in terms of this complexity and how do we manage that? And so our mission in working with companies like big switches to bring a level of simplicity Teo to a piece of the data center that, quite frankly, for the longest time has been thriving on complexity, where people kind of got paid by understanding how complex things were. And it really doesn't have to be that way. Software can be powerful. Software can make lives easier. Software could be an integral part of that transformation story, and networking is no different when it comes to that. >> So you got some hard news? Att, the show today We talked about that. >> Yeah, so a couple of things we have going on. So for one today, we announced a new branding of our networking hardware portfolio. So given that we are powering some of the biggest data centers in the world. We are embracing the power adjective here and going with the power switch brand of networking switches S o joining some of our fellow Delhi and see product lines with that with that power theme on it, I think it's a great transition. And so we're really excited about that. You know, we're going to have some nice themes around flipping the switch from a power perspective, open networking, which a lot of our customers are already doing today. So it's a big one that we have today. Another one that we have is we're announcing a couple of new, actually a new power switches in that portfolio. Some twenty five gigs switches that we're bringing to market really focused on a hyper converge software to find storage use case wherein a great many cases. There's a small cluster that small in size in terms of number of nodes but has a high degree of bandwidth that's required to make it perform. So we've introduced a couple of small poor count twenty five gigs switches as well at the show s so very excited about those being the first to flagship power switch switches that we're bringing to the >> market drops Really interesting. I mean, I worked a DMC and when we worked on some of the package solutions, there was storage networking pieces. But, you know, networking in general, You know, I I had advocated for years. We need to be ableto bundle this together. You want to be able to have that easy button so that I can freakin figure and put everything fainting together there. You can explain that. You know, people think HD either are like, Oh, isn't that have networking all bundled in? How is it tied together? But yet, you know, usually these air kind of separate peace, sis, >> I say, Up until a few months ago, networking was on afterthought from an HD eye perspective. And that's an interesting statement, not just from a deli and see perspective, but leading up to that few months ago. We've been working heavily, for example, with VX rail team, because while hyper convergence has a great story line around collapsing computing storage together in the value prop, there was really, really compelling that working was this kind of well, it's just going to sort of work. But if you took a You know, some deep conversations with customers around problems they saw on deployment and areas where they might be holding themselves back in terms of performance. Of those systems, networking was a common thing. And so for us, it was a no brainer to sit down with the X rail team and say, You know, how do we, you know, force the best practice in terms of the network and just automate the heck out of it? And so what we did is develop a deep set of integrations with the extra manager, where Roos ten operating system can do a handshake with the extra manager and take the number of steps to deploy and Hcea Network and reduce it by ninety six percent. So that's pretty compelling in terms of automation, and we're doing it in such a way that it's always going to be that best practice every time. So there's no guessing on Did I do it correctly? I'm not gonna have a performance issue. Why not just automate that and make it really seem with so great advancements? They're excited about even taking that further with them in additional work down the road next year. >> One of things we're hearing from executives, Adele certainly heard it from From Jeff Clark. Uh, in the analyst breakout this morning is alignment across the portfolio of del companies. Obviously, VM wears a linchpin of your multi cloud strategy. Uh, you can't talk with V M, where executives talked to them without hearing about NSX. So what do you doing with regard to NSX and NSX integration? >> Yeah, great question. So great think. Restoring that we have about NSX is in terms of what it's expecting of what we call the underlay or the physical network that's actually powering the network is they wanted to be fabric based. They wanted to be good at transport and easy to manage. And so a lot of the work that we've been trying to do with them is how do we present that network into an NSX environment so that that physical in virtual network come together in a seamless way? So that's an area that we were spending a lot of time with him. Another area you'LL be moving beyond NSX into other elements that fall within their networking and security business unit is what they're doing at the wide area network. So another big announcement that we have coming out today that I'm really excited to talk about is we've been teaming up with the fellow Claude business within VM Where to deploy what we're calling the s t win. Uh, EJ powered by v m. Where? So this is going to be a turnkey appliance coming preloaded with the fellow cloud software on it running on our new virtual edge products, which is a portfolio of products we added to the networking portfolio about a year ago. And what we believe it's going to go do is enable you know, a significant transformation story of customers that wanna shift to this software to find land. And the economics behind this way don't have enough time in the interview. You need to go into it. But the savings that customers can gain moving to a software defined when strategy just in the transport costs alone with a wider network are compelling. >> Yes, s so just, you know, put a point on that. When when we've looked at multi cloud Esti win is one of those areas that you know, customers said, Oh, this is a real enabler I can't really do multi cloud. I can have a bunch of pieces, but if I want to tie together, if I want to really do anything, they're SD wins. Enablement plain kind of why that is, >> yeah, because ATT the end of the day Look, you're you're sitting there on your call that an end point device and think about the traffic pattern that you're generating as an employee of some of that traffic is going to public Cloud A. Someone's going to public copy. Someone's going to a centralized data center. These traffic patterns, they're becoming more complex. They're carrying more and more traffic as we crank up the band with in terms of what we're trying to support. And so our customers, when they look at that, how did they bring order to that? And if you don't have a software to find approach where you could bring some level of centralization of policy and end the invisibility of all those end points, it's going to become unruly, which, which is what it's become for a great many customers. So it's very rare that I come across the customer that doesn't want to have an ston conversation to your point Because the pain points air, their traffic continues to grow. The multi cloud story means I have to direct it to several different clouds, including my own, including the others. And I gotta have an effective way to go do that. >> What is this? Flip the switch mean? >> Flip the switch. Yeah, great. So you'LL see some people walking around with flip the switch shirts. So in commemoration of our power switch brand that we're announcing today, uh, you know, we want to encourage our customers to flip the switch to open networking to embrace the modern network design that we've been talking about for the past five years that a great many of our customers have been flipping the switch to. So we've been consistently growing about to exit the market in the data center space with what we've been doing with this open networking approach, and we want to crank it up even higher. So we're inviting all our customers toe flip the switch, overto open networking. So >> give us the bottom line. Why? Del Networking summarized it for >> I don't know, working because we're going to be the company that's gonna have the conversation around a modern network that's going to enable you to be a software to find and live in that multi cloud world. Full stop. That's it. Everything we do from the lowest piece of hardware, every piece of software that we work to, the partners that we partner with are all about enabling that journey. And it's a really simple strategy. >> Awesome, Drew. Thanks so much for coming to Cuba. Great. Have appreciated. All right. Keep it right there, buddy. Back with our next guests. Right after this short break, David. Dante was too many men right back.