>>Good morning, everyone from Chicago Live. The Cube is live at Ansible Fast 2022. Lisa Martin and John Ferer are here for two days of multiple coverage on the cube. Very excited to be back in person. Ansible's 10th anniversary, the first in-person event. John, since 2019. Yeah, great to be perfect. One of the nuggets dropped this morning and I know you was Opss code. >>Yeah, we're gonna hear about that OPSIS code here in this segment. We're gonna get in, but the leader of the, the business unit at Ansible, part of Red Hat. So look forward >>To this. Exactly. Tom Anderson joins us, one of our alumni. Welcome back to the program. Thank you. The VP and general manager of Red Hat. First of all, how great is it to be back in person with live guests and an engaged audience and then robust community? >>It is amazing. It really is. I kind of question whether this day was ever gonna come again after three years of being apart, but to see the crowd here and to see, like you said, the energy in the room this morning and the keynotes, it's fantastic. So it's fa I just couldn't be happier. >>So opsis code nugget drop this morning. Yep. We wanna dissect that with you as, as that was mentioned in the keynote this morning. As Ansible is pushing into the cloud and and into the edge, what does OPSIS code mean for end users and how is it gonna help them to use a term that was used a lot in the keynote level up their automation? >>Yeah, so what we see is, look, the day zero, day one provisioning of infrastructure. There's lots of tools, there's lots of ways to do that. Again, it's just the company's ambition and dedication to doing it. The tools are there, they can do that. We see the next big opportunity for automation is in day two operations. And what's happening right now in ops is that you have multiple clouds, you've got multiple data centers and now you've got edge environments. The number of things to manage on a day-to-day basis is only increasing. The complexity is only increasing this idea of a couple years ago where we're gonna do shift everything left onto the developer. It's nice idea, but you still have to operate these environments on a day two basis. So we see this opportunity as opsis code, just like we did infrastructures code, just like we did configuration as code. We see the next frontier as operations code. >>Yeah, and this is really a big trend as you know with cube reporting a lot on the cloud native velocity of the modern application developer these days, they're under, they're, it's a great time to be a software developer because all the open source goodness is happening, but they're going faster. They want self-service, they want it built in secure, They need guardrails, they need, they need faster ops. So that seems to be the pressure point. Is ops as code going to be that solution? Because you have a lot of people talking about multi-cloud, multiple environments, which sounds great on paper, but when you try to execute it, Yeah, there's complexity. So you know, the goal of complexity management has really been one of the key things around ops. How do I keep speed up and how do I reduce the complexities? These are big. How does, how does ops code fit into that? >>Yeah, so look, we, we see Ansible as this common automation back plane, if you will, that goes across all of these environments. It provides a common abstraction layer so that whether you're running on Azure, whether you're a GCP or whether you're AWS or whether you're, you know, a PLC out on a shop industrial edge floor with a plc, each of those things need to be automated. If we can abstract that into a common automation language, then that allows these domain experts to be able to offer their services to developers in a way that promotes the acceleration, if you will, of those developers tasks. And that developer doesn't have to know about the underlying complexities of storage or database or cloud or edge. They can just do their >>Job. You know, Tom, one of the things I observed in Keynote, and it comes across every time I, we have an event and in person it's more amplified. Cause you see it, the loyalty of the customer base. You have great community. It's very not corporate like here. It's very no big flashy news. But there's some news, hard news, It's very community driven. Check the box there. So continuing on the roots, I wanna get your thoughts on how now the modern era we're in, in this world, the purchasing power, again, I mentioned multicloud looks good on paper, which every CX I wanna be multiple clouds. I want choice now. Now you talk to the people running things like, whoa, hold on, boss. Yeah, the bottoms up is big part of the selection process of how people select and buying consume technology with open source, you don't need to like do a full buy. You can use open source and then get Ansible. Yeah. This is gonna be a big part of how the future of buying product is and implementing it. So I think it's gonna be a groundswell, bottoms up market in this new cloud native with O in the ops world. What's your reaction to that? What's your thoughts? >>So here, here's my thoughts. The bulk of the people here are practitioners. They love Ansible, they use Ansible in their day to day job. It's how it helped, makes 'em successful. Almost every executive that I go out and talk to and our customers, they tell me one of their number one pro or their number one problem is attracting you talent and retaining the talent that they have. And so how can they do that? They can give them the tools to do their job, the tools that they actually like. So not a top down, you know, old fashioned systems management. You're gonna use this tool whether you like it or not. But that bottoms up swell of people adopting open source tools like Ansible to do their job and enjoy it. So I see it as a way of the bottoms up addressing the top down initiative of the organization, which is skills retention, skills enhancement. And that's what we focus on here at this event. Are the practitioners, >>Is that the biggest customer conversation topic these days? Is this the skills gap, retention, attraction talent? Would you say it's more expansive as the organizations are so different? >>Well, so a lot of the folks that I meet are, you know, maybe not sea level, but they're executives in the organization, right? So they're struggling with attract, you know, pretty much everywhere I go, I was in Europe this summer, conversation was always the same. We got two problems. Tracking people. We can't find people, people we find we can't afford. So we need to automate what they would do. And, and then the second piece is the complexity of our environment is growing, right? I'm being asked to do more and I can't find more people to do it. What's my solution? It's automation, you know, at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. >>It's interesting, the people who are gonna be involved in the scaling horizontally with automation are gonna have the keys to the kingdom. The old joke when it was, you know, they run everything. They power the business now the business is digital. You gotta be hybrid. So we see hybrids a steady state right now, hybrid cloud. When you bring the edge into the equation, how do you see that developing? Because we think it's gonna be continually be hybrid and that's gonna extend out on the edge. What is the ansible's view on how the edge evolves? What's, what's going on there? Can you share your thoughts on the expansion to the edge? >>There's a, our experience is there's a rapid modernization happening out at the edge, industrial edge, you know, oil and gas platforms, retail locations, industrial floors, all that kind of stuff. We see this convergence of OT and IT happening right now where some of the disciplines that enterprises have used in the IT area are gonna expand out into ot. But some of the requirements of ot of not having skilled IT resources, you know, in the store, in the fast food restaurant, on the oil platform, needing to have the tools to be able to automate those changes remotely. We're seeing a real acceleration of that right now. And frankly, Ansible's playing a big role in that. And it's connecting a lot of the connective tissue is around network. What is the key piece that connects all of this environment as network and those number of endpoints that need to be managed. Ansible is, you know, >>It's way use case for Ansible because Ansible built their business on configuration automation, which was don't send someone out to that branch office back in the old days. Exactly. Do it. Manual versus automation. Hey, automation every time. Yes. This is at large scale. I mean the scale magnitude, can you scope the scale of what's different? I mean go even go back 10 years, okay, where we were and how we got here, where we are today. Scope the size of the scale that's happening here. >>You know, hundreds of thousands of endpoints and things. That's not even the API points, but that's the kind of compute points, the network points, the servers it's in. It's, it's, you know what we would've never thought, you know, 10 years ago, a thousand endpoints was a lot or 10,000 endpoints was a lot of things to manage when you start talking about network devices. Yeah, yeah. Home network devices for employees that are remote employees that need to be in a secured network. Just the order of magnitude, maybe two orders of magnitude larger than it has been in the past. And so again, coming home to the automation world, >>The world's spun in your front, your front door right now. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, >>Absolutely. Talk about, you talked about the acceleration. If we think of about the proliferation of, of devices online, especially the last two years, when, to your point, so many people shifted to remote and are still there. What are some of the, the changes in automation that we've seen as businesses have had to pivot and change so frequently and so many times to be successful? >>Yeah, so here's what we've seen, which is it's no longer acceptable for the owner of the network team or the ownership of the database or of the storage facility to, you can't wait for them to offer their service to people. Self-service is now the rule of thumb, right? So how can those infrastructure owners be able to offer their services to non IT people in a way that manages their compliance and makes them feel that they can get those resources without having to come and ask. And they do that by automating with Ansible and then offering those as package services out to their developers, to their QE teams, to their end users, to be able to consume and subscribe to that infrastructure knowing that they are the ones who are controlling how it's being provisioned, how it's being used. >>What are some of the, there were some great customers mentioned this morning in the keynote, but do you have a favorite example of a customer, regardless of industry that you think really shows the value and, and the evolution of the Ansible platform in its first 10 years and that really articulates the business value that automation delivers to a company? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. I would think that, you know, if you wound the clock back 10 years, Ansible was all about server configuration management, right? That's what it was about was per provisioning, provisioning, you know, VMware infrastructure, vSphere, and then loading on VMs on top of that as it's expanded into network, into security and to storage and to database into cloud. It's become a much broader platform, if you will. And a good example is we have a customer, large oil and gas customer who is modernizing their oil platforms. I can imagine I not, I've not been on one, but I imagine the people that are out working on that oil platforms have greasy hands that are pushing on things. And they had this platform that the technology modernization included Azure. So connecting to data on Azure, rolling out new application updates, has to have a firewall, has to have network capabilities, has to have underlying OS to be able to do that. And Ansible was the glue that brought all that together to be able to modernize that oil platform. And so for me, that's the kind of thing where it sort of makes it real. You know, the actual businesses, >>The common set of services, this is, this is where we're seeing multi-cloud. Yeah. You start to have that conversation where, okay, I got this edge, it kind of looks the same, I gotta make it work. I'm a developer, I want some compute, I want to put this together. I have containers and orchestration behind it and kind of seeing the same kind of pattern. Yeah. Evolving at scale. So you guys have the platform, okay, I'm an open source. I love the open source. I got the platform 2.3, I see supply chain management in there. You got trusted signatures. That's a supply chain. We've been hearing a lot about security in the code. What else is in the platform that's updated? Can you share the, the, the new things that people should pay attention to in the platform? >>Yeah, we're gonna talk about a couple of things smaller around event driven Ansible, which is bringing Ansible into that really day two ops world where it's sort of hands free automation and, and, and operations where rather than someone pushing a button to trigger or initiate a piece of, of automation, an event will take place. I've detected an outta space condition, I've detected a security violation, I've detected something. Go to a rule book. That rule book will kick off in automation close that remediate that problem and close the thing without anyone ever having to do anything with that. So that's kind of one big area. And we're gonna talk tomorrow. We've got a real special announcement tomorrow with our friends from IBM research that I'm gonna, >>We'll have you on 10 30 Martha Calendars. >>But there's some really great stuff going on on the platform as we start to expand these use cases in multiple directions and how we take Ansible out to more and more people, automation out to more and more people from the inside, experts out to the consumers of automation, make it easier to create automation. >>Yeah. And one of the things I wanted to follow up on that and the skill gap, tying that together is you seeing heard in the keynote today around Stephanie was talking about enterprise architecture. It's not, I won't say corner case answer. I mean it's not one niche or narrow focus. Expanding the scope was mentioned by Katie, expand your scope grow, you got a lot of openings. People are hire now, Now Ansible is part of the enterprise architecture. It's not just one thing, it's, it's a complete, Explain what that means for the folks out there. Yeah. >>So when you start to connect what I call the technology domains, so the network team uses Ansible to automate their network infrastructure and configure all their systems. And the compute team uses it to deploy new servers on aws. And the security ops team use it to go out and gather facts when they have a threat detection happening and the storage team is using it to provision storage. When you start to then say, Okay, we have all these different domains and we want to connect those together into a set of workflows that goes across all of those domains. You have this common language and we're saying, okay, so it's not just the language, it's also the underlying platform that has to be scalable. It's gotta be secure. We talked about signing content. I mean, people don't understand the risk of an automation gone wild. You can, you can do a lot of damage to your infrastructure real fast with automation, just like you can do repair, right? So is what's running in my environment secure? Is it performant and is it scalable? I mean, those are the two, those are the three areas that we're really looking at with the platform right >>Now. Automation gone wild, it sounds like the next reality TV show. Yeah, I >>May, I may regret saying that. >>Sounds >>Like great. Especially on live tv. Great, >>Great podcast title right there. I made a mental note. Automation Gone Wild episode one. Here we are >>Talk about Ansible as is really being the, the catalyst to allow organizations to truly democratize automation. Okay. You, you talked about the different domains there and it seems to me like it's, it's positioned to really be the catalyst that's the driver of that democratization, which is where a lot of people wanna get to. >>Yeah. I mean for us, and you'll see in our sessions at Ansible Fest, we talk a lot about the culture, the culture of automation, right? And saying, okay, how do you include more and more people in your organization in this process? How can you get them to participate? So we talk about these ideas of communities of practice. So we bring the open source, the concepts of open source communities down into enterprises to build their own internal communities of practice around Ansible, where they're sharing best practices, skills, reusable content. That is one of the kind of key factors that we see as a success in inside organizations is the scales, is sort of bringing everybody into that culture of automation and not being afraid of automation saying, Look, it's not gonna take my job, it's gonna help me do my job better. >>Exactly. That automation argument always went, went to me crazy. Oh yeah, automating is gonna take my job away. You know, bank teller example, there's more bank tellers now than ever before. More atm. So the, the job shifts, I mean the value shifts. Yeah. This is kind of where the, where the automation helps. What's real quick, final minute we have left. Where does that value shift? I'm the person being automated away or job. Yeah. Where do you see the value job? Cause it's still tons of openings for people's skills, >>You know? So we see the shift from, particularly in operations from, here's my job, I look at a ticket queue, I grab a ticket, it's got a problem, I go look at a log, I look for a string and a log, I find out the air and I go, configuration change that. That's not a really, I wouldn't call that a fund existence for eight or 10 hours a day, but the idea, if I can use automation to do that for me and then focus on innovating, creating new capabilities in my environment, then you start to attract a new, you know, the next generation of operations people into a much more exciting role. >>Yeah. Architects too, they turned into architects that turned into the multiple jobs scope. It's like multi-tool player. It's like >>A, you know, Yeah, yeah. The five tool player, >>Five tool player in baseball is the best of the best. But, but kind of that's what's >>Happening. That's exactly what's happening, right? That's exactly what's happening. And it helps address that skills challenge. Yeah. And the talent challenge that organizations have as well. >>And everybody wants to be able to focus on delivering value to the organization. I have to get the end of the day. That's a human component that we all want. So it sounds like Ansible is well on its way to helping more and more organizations across industries achieve just that. Tom, it's great to have you back on the program. Sounds like you're coming back tomorrow, so we get day two of Tom. All right, excellent. Look forward to it. Congratulations on the first in-person event in three years and we look forward to talking to you >>Tomorrow. Thank you so much. >>All right, for our guests and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube Live from Chicago, Day one of our coverage of Ansible Fest 2022. Stick around. John and I welcome back another Cube alumni next.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. Hey, welcome back. And Buddy Jeffrey here with the Cube coming from our Palo Alto studio with ongoing coverage of the Cisco Definite event is called Accelerating Automation with definite in the new normal. And we certainly know the new normal is not going away. We've been doing this since the middle of March. We're all the way to October. And so we're excited of our next guest. He's Thomas Shy V. He's the vice president of product marketing and data center networking for the intent based networking group at Cisco. Thomas, great to see you. >>Hey, good to see you, too. Yeah. Yeah. And truly running in normal, as everybody can see in our background. >>Exactly. Exactly so. But I mean, I'm curious. We've talked to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of leaders, you know, especially like back in March and April with this light switch moment, which was, you know, no time to prep. And suddenly everybody has to work from home. Teachers got to teach from home. And so you got the kids home. You got the spouse home. Everybody's home trying to get on the network and do their zoom calls in their classes. I'm curious from your perspective. You guys air right there on the on the network. You're right in the infrastructure. What did you hear and see? Kind of from your customers When suddenly, you know, March 16th hit and everybody had to go home. >>Well, good point. A. I do think we all appreciate the network much more than we used to do before on. Then the only other differences I'm really more on. Ravix calls and zoom called, but you know otherwise? Yes. Um what? What I do see, actually, is that, as I said, network becomes much more operates as a critical piece. And so before we really talked a lot about, uh, agility and flexibility these days, we talk much more about resiliency. Quite frankly, uh, what do I need to have in place with respect to network? To get my things from left to right and, you know, just 2000 east or west, as we say in the data center Right on. That just is for most of my customers, very, very important topic at this point, right? >>You know, it's it's amazing to think, you know, had this happened, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago. You know, the ability for so many people in the information industry to be able to actually make that transition relatively seamlessly. Eyes is actually pretty amazing. I'm sure there was some some excitement in some kudos in terms of, you know, it is all based on the network, and it is kind of this quiet thing in the background that nobody pays attention to. It's like a ref in the football game until they make a bad play. So, you know, it is pretty fascinating that you and your colleagues that put this infrastructure and that enabled us to really make that move with with with really no prep, no planning and actually have a whole lot of services delivered into our homes that were used to getting at the office or used to getting at school. >>Yeah, and I mean to your point, I mean, some of us did some planning. We're clearly talking about some of these thes trends in the way I look at this. Trans is being distributed data centers and having the ability to move your workloads and your access for users to wherever you wanna be. And so I think that clearly went on for a while. And so in a sense, we practice or knowing what we're prepping for. Um, but as I said, resiliency just became so much more important. And, you know, one of things. I actually do a little clock, a little little prep you for block I put out end of August around resiliency. Uh, you if you didn't, if you didn't put this in place, you better put in place because I think, as we all know, we saw her march. This is like, maybe two or three months. We're now in October. Uh, and I think this is the new normal for some time being. Yeah, >>I think so. So let's stick on that theme in terms of trends, right? The other great trend is public cloud, um, and hybrid cloud and multi cloud. There's all types of variants on that theme. Yeah, you had in that block post about resiliency and data center cloud networking data center cloud. You know, some people think Wait, it's it's kind of an either or either got my data center or I've got my stuff in the cloud and I got Public Cloud. And then, as I said, Hybrid cloud, you're talking really specifically about enabling, um, both in inner Data Center resiliency within multi data centers within the same enterprise as well as connecting to the cloud. That's probably counterintuitive for some people to think that that's something that Cisco is excited about and supporting. So I wonder if you can share, you know, kind of the market is changing. How you guys air reacting and really putting the things in place t to deliver customer choice. >>Yeah, I know. It's actually to me. It's really not counterintuitive, because in the end, what what I'm focusing on and the company's focus on is what our customers want to do and need to do on. That's really, um, would you know, most people call hybrid cloud or multi cloud, Uh, in in the end, what? What? This is really the ability to have the flexibility to move your workloads where you want him to be, and they have different reasons why you want to place them right. You might have placed them for security reason. You might have placed for clients. Reason depending on which customer segment you're after. If you're in the United States or in Europe, in Asia there are a lot of different reasons we're gonna put your things. And so I think in the end, what on enterprise looks for is that agility, flexibility and resiliency. And and so really, what you want to put in place is what we call like a cloud on ramp, right? You need to have an ability to move sings as needed. But the larger context action which we see in the last couple of months accelerating, is really this whole seem around digital transformation, which goes hand in hand. Then, was the requirement on the Teesside really do? And I t operations transformation, Right? How I t operates on. I think that's really exciting to see. And this is actually where a lot off my discussions I was customers. What does it actually mean with respect to the I t organization? And what are the operational changes? There's a lot of our customers they're going through, quite frankly, accelerated going through >>right and and automation is in the title of the event. So automation is you know is an increasingly important thing. You know, as the as we know and we hear all the time, you know, the flows of data, the complexity of the data, either the on the security or the way the networks moving or, as you said, shifting workloads around based on dynamic situations. Whether that's business security, etcetera, you too suffer to find networking has been around for a while. How are you seeing kind of this evolution in and adding mawr automation, You know, to more and more processes to free up those those, um, kind of limited resource is in terms of really skilled people to focus on the things that they should be focused on and not stuff that that hopefully you can, you know, get a machine to run with some level of >>automation. Yeah, that's a good point. And they said the Tekla and a half, you know, sometimes in my mind is really going from cloud ready, which I think most of infrastructures today to cloud native. And so let me a little expand on. This right is like the cloud ready is basically what we have put in place over the last 5 to 6 years. All the infrastructure that our customers have network infrastructure or the Nexus 9000. They're all cloud ready right now, what this really means. You have a P ice everywhere, right? Whether this is on the box, whether it's on the controller, whether this is on the operations tools, all of these a p i a neighborhood. And that's just the foundation for automation, right? You have to have that now. The next step really is What do you do with that capability? And right? And this is the integration was a lot off automation tools on. That's the whole range, right? This is where the I t operation transformation kicks in. Different customers a different speed, right? Some just You know, I used these AP ice and use normal tools that they have in the network world just to pull information. Some customers go for further and saying, I want to integrate this with extensive Deb equals some go even further and saying this is like the cloud native people saying, Oh, I want to use, let's say, redhead answerable. I want to use how she called terra form and use those things to actually drive. How I manage my infrastructure. And so that's really the combination of the automation capability. Plus, the integration was relevant cloud native, enabling tools that really is happening. At this point, we're seeing customers accelerating that. That motion, which really then drives, is how they run their I t operations. And so that's a pretty exciting, exciting area to see given. As I said, we have the infrastructure in place. There is no need for customers to actually do change something most of them have already. The infrastructures that can do this is just no doing the operation change the process, changes to actually get there >>right. And it's funny we we recently covered, you know, pager duty. And they highlight which you just talked about. The cloud native, which is, you know, all of these applications now were so interdependent on all these different a p. I s, you know, pulling data from all these applications. So a when they work great, it's terrific. But if there's a problem, you know there's a whole lot of potential throats to choke out there and find. Find those issues and it's all being connected via the network. So, you know, it's even Mawr. Critically important not only for the application, but for all these little tiny components within the application to deliver. You know, ultimately a customer experience within very small units of time s so that you don't lose that customer. You complete that transaction, they check out of the shopping cart. You know, all these these things that are now created with cloud native applications that just couldn't really do before. >>No, you're absolutely right. And this, this is like I just said, I'm actually very excited because it opens up a lot off abilities for our customers how they want to actually structure the operation, right? One of the nice things around this whole automation, plus, uh, true integration closer to integration is you actually open this up. Now, this whole automation trained not just to the network operations person, right? You also open it up and can use this for the sake cups person or for the death of a person or for the cloud tops engineering team. Right? Because the way it's structured, the way we built this, um, it's literally it's an A p I interface, and you can now decide what is your process? Do you wanna have? On what? Traditional process. You have a request number. Corporation teams executes request using these tools and enhance it back over. Or you say, Hey, maybe some of these security things I'm gonna hand over the second team and it can directly call these days a p I s right or even one step further. You can have the opportunity that the death of So the application team actually says, Hey, I got to write a whole infrastructure as code kind of a script or template and I just execute right and it's really just using what the infrastructure provides. And so that whole range off different user roles in our customer base. What they can do with the automation capability that's available. It's just very, very exciting, right, because it's literally unleashes a lot of flexibility, how they want to structure and how they wanna. We built the I T operations processes. >>That's interesting, you know, because the you know, the Dev ops culture has taken over a lot. Right obviously changed software programming for the last 20 years, and and I think you know there's a There's a lot of just kind of the concept of Dev ops versus necessarily. You know, the actual things that you do to execute that technique. And I don't think most people would think of, you know, network ops or, you know, netapp. You know, whatever the equivalent is in the networking world toe have, you know, kind of a fast changing dynamic kind of point of view versus a You know, stick it in, you know, spec it, stick it in, lock it down. So I wonder if you can You can share how, you know, kind of that, Dev ops, um attitude, point of view, workflow, whatever the right verb is has impacted, you know, things that Cisco and the way you guys think about networking and flexibility within the networking world. >>Yeah, literally. Absolutely. And again, it's all customer driven, right? Is none of this. None of this is really actually, you know, a little bit of credit. Maybe some of us where we have a vision, but a lot of this just customer driven feedback. Uh, yeah, we we do have even network operations teams comes to saying, Hey, we use answerable heavily on the computer side. We might use this for for seven. We want to use the same for networking. And so we made available all these integrations with the variety of state. Whether these are the switches, whether it's our A, C and D C and controller or our Martha said orchestration capabilities, all of these has answerable integration away. All right, The other one is you mentioned how she from Cherepkov telephone. We have integrations available and they see the request for these tools to use that on DSO. That is emotion. We're in for over a year now. And another block, actually, that's out there. We're just supposed to saying you all set what you can do on then in parallel to this, right? Just making the integration available. We also have a very, very heavy focus on on definite and enablement and training on, you know, a little pluck. And I know probably part of the segment. The whole definite community that Cisco has is very, very vibrant. Uh, and the beauty off this is right. If you look at this, whether your naps person or a deaf person or seconds person, it doesn't really matter. There is a lot of like capability available to just help you get going or go from one level to the next level, right? And there's simple things like sandbox environments where you can, you know, without stress, dry things out. Snippets of code A there you could do all of these things. And so we do see, it's a kind of a push and pull a tremendous amount of interest and the tremendous, uh uh, time people spend to learn, quite frankly. And that's another side product off. You know, the situation wherein people sit home and say, Okay, online learning is the thing. So thes, thes thes tools. They're used very heavily, right? >>So that's awesome. Because, you know, we've We've had Suzy we on a number of times. And I know he and Mandy and the team, right, really built this definite thing. And it really follows along this other theme that we see consistently across other pieces of tech, which is democratization, right? Democratization to the access tool, taking it out of of just a mahogany row with again really limited number of people that know how to make it work and and could make changes in opening up to a software defined world where now that you know It's his application centric point of view where the people that are building the APS to go create competitive advantage now don't have to wait for, you know, the one network person to help him out of these environments. Really interesting. I wonder, you know, when you look at what's happened with Public Cloud and how they kind of changed the buying parameter, how they kind of changed the the the degree of difficulty to get projects started. You know how you guys have kind of integrated that that type of thought process to make it easier for app developers to get their job done? >>Yeah, I mean again, it's It's I took a look at this more from a from a customer. Answer, right? It's the transformation process, and it always starts is I want agility. I want flexibility. Anyone resiliency, right. This is where we talked to a business owner what they're looking for and then it translates into into a night operations process, right? Your strategy needs to map them. How you actually do this on that? Just tries. Then what truths do you want to have available to actually enable this right and the enablement again? is for different roles right there is. You need to give sing services to the app developer and, uh, the platform team and the security team right to your point so the network can act at the same speed. But you also give to to the network operations teams because they need thio adjust. And they have the ability to react thio to some of these requirements. Right? And it's not just automation. I think we we focused on that. But there's also to your point, the need how to extend between data sent us, you know, just just for backup and recovery. And how do I extend into public clouds? Right. Uh, in the end, that's ah, that's the network connectivity problem. And we have soft us. We have made us available. We have integrations into, uh, W s. We have integrations into azure to actually make this very easy from a from a network perspective to extend your private domains private networks into virtual private networks on on these public cloud. So from an app developer perspective, now it looks like he's on the same network. It's a protective enterprise network. Some of it might sit here, someone might sit here, but it's really looking the same. And that's really in the end. I think what what a business looks at, right? They don't necessarily want to say I need to have something separate for this deployment was separate for that deployment. What they want is I need to deploy something. E need to do this resilient in the resilient way in an enjoyable way. Give me the tools. And so that's really where we focus, Um, and what we're driving right? It's that combination of automation consistently and then definite tools available that we support. But they're all open. Uh, they're all standard tools. The ones I mentioned right that everybody is using. So you're not getting into this. Oh, this is specific to Cisco. Uh, it's really democratization. I actually like the term. Yeah, >>it's It's a great terminate, and it's it's really interesting, especially with with the A p i s and the way everything is so tight together that everyone kind of has to enable this because that's what the customers demanding. Um, and it is all about the applications and workloads, and one of those things are moving, but they don't really wanna manage that. They just wanna, you know, deliver business, benefit to their customers and respond. Thio, you know, competitive threats in the marketplace, etcetera. So it's really an interesting time for the infrastructure, you know, to really support kind of this at first point of view versus the other way around is kind of what it used to be and and enable this hyper fast development, hyper fast change and in the competitive landscape, or else you will be left behind. Um, so super important stuff. >>Yeah. No, I totally agree. And as I said, I mean, it's it's kind of interesting because we we started on the Cisco Data Center side we started. It's probably six or seven years ago, uh, when we when we named the applications centric. Clearly, a lot of these concepts evolved, but in a sense it is. That reversal of the role from the network provides something, and you used Teoh. This is what I want to do, and I need a service thinking on the networking side to explosives that can be consumed, and so that clearly is playing out and said Automation Issa Kiki Foundation that we put in place in our customers. Most of our customers this point on these on these products? Uh, they have all the capabilities there. They can literally take advantage. There's really nothing that stops them points. >>Well, it's good times for you because I'm sure you've seen all the memes in in in social Media, right? What's driving your digital transformation? Is that the CEO, the CMO or cove it? And we all know the answer to the question, so I don't think the pace of change is going to slow down any time soon. So for keeping the network up and enabling us all the get done, what we have to get done and and all the little magic that happens behind the scenes >>Yeah, I know. Thanks. Thanks for having me. And again. Yeah, if you're listening and you're wondering, how do I get started? Cisco Definite. It's the place to go. It's, you know, fantastic fantastic environment, and I highly recommend everybody roll up your sleeve and you know the best reasons you can have. >>Yeah, and we know once the physical events come back, we've been toe definite, create a bunch of times, and it's a super vibrant, super excited, really engaged community. Sharing lots of information is kind of. That's still kind of that early vibe. You know where everyone is is still really enthusiastic and really about learning and sharing information. So, you know, like this using the team were really built a great thing. And we're happy to continue to cover it. And eventually we'll be back face to face. Okay, >>look forward to that as well. >>All right, Thanks. He's Thomason. Jeff, you're watching Continuing coverage of Cisco. Definite accelerating with automation and program ability. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. Hey, welcome back. And writer Jeffrey here with the Cube coming from our Palo Alto studio with ongoing coverage of the Cisco Definite event is called Accelerating Automation with definite in the new normal. And we certainly know the new normal is not going away. We've been doing this since the middle of March. We're all the way to October. And so we're excited of our next guest. He's Thomas Chyba. He's the vice president of product marketing and data center networking for the intent based networking group at Cisco. Thomas, great to see you. >>Hey, good to see you, too. Yeah, truly. When any normal as everybody can see in our background. >>Exactly. Exactly So. But I mean, I'm curious. We've talked to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of leaders, you know, especially like back in March and April with this light switch moment, which was, you know, no time to prep. And suddenly everybody has to work from home. Teachers got to teach from home. And so you got the kids home. You got the spouse home everybody's home trying to get on the network and do their zoom calls in their classes. I'm curious from your perspective. You guys air right there on the on the network. You're right in the infrastructure. What did you hear and see? Kind of from your customers When suddenly, you know, March 16th hit and everybody had to go home. >>Well, good point. A. I do think we all appreciate the network much more than we used to do before on. Then the only other differences. I'm really more on WebEx calls and zoom calls, but you know otherwise? Yes. Um What? What I do see, actually, is that, as I said, network becomes much more office as a critical piece. And so before we really talked a lot about agility and flexibility. These days, we're talking much more about resiliency. Quite frankly, on what do I need to have in place with respect to network, To get my things from left to right and, you know, most 2000 east or west, as we say in the data center. Right on. That just is for most of my customers, very, very boring topic at this point, right? >>You know, it's It's amazing to think, you know, had this happened, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago. You know, the ability for so many people in the information industry to be able to actually make that transition relatively seamlessly. Eyes is actually pretty amazing. I'm sure there was some some excitement in some kudos in terms of, you know, it is all based on the network, and it is kind of this quiet thing in the background that nobody pays attention to. It's like a ref in the football game until they make a bad play. So you know, it is pretty fascinating that you and your colleagues that put this infrastructure and that enabled us to really make that move with with with really no prep, no planning and actually have a whole lot of services delivered into our homes that were used to getting at the office or used to getting at school. >>Yeah, and I mean to your point, I mean, some of us did some planning. We clearly talking about some of these thes trends in the way I look at this trans as being distributed data centers and having the ability to move your workloads and your access for users to wherever you wanna be. And so I think that clearly went on for a while. And so, in a sense, we we practice or knowing what we're prepping for. Um, But as I said, resiliency just became so much more important. And, you know, one of things. I actually do a little block a little little prep before block I put out into of August around resiliency. Uh, you if you didn't, if you didn't put this in place, you better put in place because I think, as we all know, we saw her march. This is like, maybe two or three months. We're now in October. Uh, and I think this is the new normal for some time being. Yeah, >>I think so. So let's stick on that theme in terms of trends, right? The other great trend is public cloud, um, and hybrid cloud and multi cloud. There's all types of variants on that theme. Yeah, you had in that block post about resiliency and data center cloud networking data center cloud. You know, some people think Wait, it's it's kind of an either or either got my data center or I've got myself in the cloud and I got Public Cloud. And then, as I said, Hybrid cloud, you're talking really specifically about enabling, um, both in inner data Center resiliency within multi data centers within the same enterprise as well as connecting to the cloud. That's probably counterintuitive for some people to think that that's something that Cisco is excited about and supporting. So I wonder if you can share, you know, kind of the market is changing. How you guys air reacting and really putting the things in place t to deliver customer choice. >>Yeah, I know. It's actually to me. It's really not counterintuitive, because in the end, what what I'm focusing on and the company's focus on is what our customers want to do. I need to do on. That's really, um, would you know most people call hybrid cloud or multi cloud in the end. What what? This is really the ability to have the flexibility to move your workloads where you want him to be, and they have different reasons why you want to place them right. You might have placed them for security reason you might have placed for clients reason, depending on which customer segment you're after? If you're in the United States or in Europe, In Asia there are a lot of different reasons we're gonna put your things. And so I think in the end, what on enterprise looks for is that agility, flexibility and resiliency. And and so really, what you want to put in place is what we call like a cloud on ramp, right? You need to have an ability to move sings as needed. But the larger context action which we see in the last couple of months accelerating, is really this whole seem around digital transformation, which goes hand in hand. Then, was the requirement on the Teesside really do? And I t operations transformation, Right? How I t operates on. I think that's really exciting to see. And this is actually a lot off my discussions. I was customers. What does it actually mean with respect to the I T organization? And what are the operational changes? There's a lot of our customers they're going through, quite frankly, accelerated going through >>right and and automation is in the title of the event. So automation is, you know, is an increasingly important thing. You know, as the way No. And we hear all the time. You know, the flows of data, the complexity of the data, either the on the security or the way the networks moving or, as you said, shifting workloads around based on dynamic situations. Whether that's business security, etcetera, you too suffer defined networking has been around for a while. How are you seeing kind of this evolution in and adding mawr automation, You know, to more and more processes to free up those those, um, kind of limited resource is in terms of really skilled people to focus on the things that they should be focused on and not stuff that that hopefully you can, you know, get a machine to run with some level of automation. >>Yeah, Yeah, that's a good point. And it said the tech line a half you know, sometimes in my mind is really going from cloud ready, which is in most of infrastructures today to cloud native. And so let me a little expand on. This right is like the cloud ready is basically what we have put in place over the last 5 to 6 years. All the infrastructure that our customers have network infrastructure. All the Nexus 9000. There are cloud ready right now. What this really means. You have a P ice everywhere, right? Whether this is on the box, whether it's on the controller, whether this is on the operations tools, all of these a p i n neighbor. And that's just the foundation for automation, right? You have to have that now. The next step really is what do you do with that capability and right? And this is the integration with a lot off automation tools on. That's the whole range, right? This is where the I t operation transformation kicks in. Different customers a different speed, right? Some just You know, I used these AP ice and use normal tools that they have in the network world just to pull information. Some customers go for further and saying, I want to integrate this with, like some seed individuals. Some go even further and saying This is like the cloud native people saying, Oh, I want to use, let's say, redhead answerable. I want to use how she called terra form and use those things to actually drive how I manage my infrastructure. And so that's really the combination of the automation capability plus the integration was relevant cloud native enabling tools that really is happening. At this point. We're seeing customers accelerating that that motion, which really then tribes, is how they run their I t operations. And so that's a pretty exciting, exciting area to see given. As I said, we have the infrastructure in place. There's no need for customers. Actually do change something. Most of them have already the infrastructures that could do this. There's just no doing the operation change the process changes to actually get there, >>right? It's funny we we recently covered, you know, pager duty. And they highlight which you just talked about. The cloud native, which is, you know, all of these applications now were so interdependent on all these different a p I s, you know, pulling data from all these applications. So a when they work great, it's terrific. But if there's a problem, you know there's a whole lot of potential throats to choke out there and find. Find those issues, and it's all being connected via the network. So, you know, it's even mawr critically important not only for the application but for all these little tiny components within the application to deliver. You know, ultimately a customer experience within very small units of time s so that you don't lose that customer. You complete that transaction, they check out of the shopping cart. You know all these? We have these things that are now created with cloud native applications that just couldn't really do before. >>No, you're absolutely right. And this is like I just said, I'm actually very excited because it opens up a lot off abilities for our customers how they want to actually structure the operation, right? One of the nice things around this whole automation, plus, uh, true integration closer to integration is you actually open this up now, this whole automation trained not just to the network operations person, right? You also open it up and can use this for the sake of this person or for the death of a person or for the cloud tops engineering team. Right? Because the way it's structured the way we built this, um, it's literally it's an A P I interface, and you can now decide what is your process? Do you wanna have on what traditional process you have a request number. Corporation teams executes request using these tools and then hands it back over or you say, Hey, maybe some of these security things I gotta hand over the Cyclops team and they can directly call these days a piece, right or even one step further. You can have the opportunity that the death of the application team actually says, Hey, I got to write a whole infrastructure as code kind of a script or template and I just execute right And it's really just using what the infrastructure provides. And so that whole range off different user roles in our customer base. What they can do with the automation capability that's available. It's just very, very exciting, right, because it's literally unleashes a lot of flexibility, how they want to structure and how they wanna rebuild the I T operations processes. >>That's interesting, you know, because the you know the Dev ops culture has taken over a lot. Right obviously changed software programming for the last 20 years, and and I think you know there's a There's a lot of just kind of the concept of Dev ops versus necessarily, you know, the actual things that you do to execute that technique. And I don't think most people would think of, you know, network ops or netapp. You know, whatever the equivalent is the networking world toe have, you know, kind of a fast changing dynamic kind of point of view versus a You know, stick it in, you know, spec it, stick it in, lock it down. So I wonder if you can You can share how, you know, kind of that, Dev ops, um attitude, point of view, workflow, whatever the right verb is has impacted, you know, things that Cisco and the way you guys think about networking and flexibility within the networking world. >>Yeah, literally. Absolutely. And again, it's all customer driven, right? Is none of this. None of this is really actually, you know, a little bit of credit. Maybe some of us where we have a vision, but a lot of this just customer driven feedback. Uh, yeah, we we do have even network operations teams comes to saying, Hey, we use answerable heavily on the computer side. We might use this for for seven. We want to use the same for networking. And so we made available all these integrations with the variety of state. Whether these are the switches, whether it's our A, C and D C and controller or our Martha said orchestration capabilities, all of these has answerable integration away. All right, The other one is you mentioned how she from Cherepkov telephone. We have integrations available and they see the request for these tools to use that on DSO. That is emotion We're in for over a year now. And another block, actually, that's out there. We're just supposed to saying you all set what you can do on then in parallel to this, right? Just making the integration available. We also have a very, very heavy focus on on definite and enablement and training on, you know, a little pluck. And I know probably part of the segment. The whole definite community that Cisco has is very, very vibrant. Uh, and the beauty off this is right. If you look at this, whether your naps person or a deaf person or seconds person doesn't really matter, there's a lot of like capability available to just help you get going or go from one level to the next level. Right. And there's simple things, like sandbox environments where you can, you know, without stress, try things out. Snippets of code A there you can do all of these things. And so we do see, it's a kind of a push and pull a tremendous amount of interest and the tremendous, uh, time people spend to learn, quite frankly. And that's another side product off. You know, the situation wherein people sit home and say Okay, online learning is the thing so thes, thes thes tools they used very heavily, >>right? So that's awesome. Because, you know, we've we've had Suzy we on a number of times. And I know he and Mandy and the team right, really built this definite thing. And it really follows along this other theme that we see consistently across other pieces of tech, which is democratization right? Democratization to the access tool, taking it out of of just the mahogany row with again really limited number of people that know how to make it work and and could make changes in opening up to a software defined world where now that you know, it's his application centric point of view, where the people that are building the APs to go create competitive advantage now Don't have to wait for, you know, the one network person to help him out of these environments. Really interesting. I wonder if you know, when you look at what's happened with Public Cloud and how they kind of changed the buying parameter, how they kind of changed the the the degree of difficulty to get projects started. You know how you guys have kind of integrated that that type of thought process to make it easier for app developers to get their job done? >>Yeah, I mean, again, it's it's I took a look at this more from from a customer answer. It's the transformation process, and it always starts is I want agility. I want flexibility. Everyone resiliency, right. This is where we talked to a business owner what they're looking for, and then it translates into into a night operations process, right? Your strategy needs to map them. How you actually do this on that Just strikes. Then what truths do you want to have available to actually enable this? Right? And the enablement again is for different roles. Right? There is. You need to give sing services to the app developer and, uh the platform team in the security right to your point. So the network, uh, can act at the same speed. But you also give tools to the network operations teams because they need thio adjust. And they have the ability to react thio to some of these requirements. Right? And it's not just automation. I think we we focused on that. But there's also to your point, the need how to extend between data sent us, you know, just just for backup and recovery. And how do I extend into public clouds? Right. Uh, in the end, that's Ah, that's the network connectivity problem. And we have soft us. We have made us available. We have integrations into, uh, W s. We have integrations into azure to actually make this very easy from a from a network perspective to extend your private domains private networks into virtual private networks on on these public cloud. So from an app developer perspective, now it looks like he's on the same network. It's a protective enterprise network. Some of it might sit here, someone might sit here, but it's really looking the same. And that's really in the end, I think. What what a business looks at right. They don't necessarily want to say I need to have something separate for this deployment was a separate for that deployment. What they want is I need to deploy something. E need to do this resilient in the resilient way in an enjoyable way. Give me the tools. And so that's really where we focused, Um, and what we're driving right? It's that combination of automation consistently and then definite tools available that we support. But they're all open. Uh, there are standard tools. The ones I mentioned right that everybody is using. So you're not getting into this, So that's a specific to Cisco. Uh, it's really democratization. I actually like the term. Yeah, >>it's It's a great terminate, and it's it's really interesting, especially with with the A p i s and the way everything is so tight together that everyone kind of has to enable this because that's what the customers demanding. Um, and it is all about the applications and workloads, and one of those things are moving, but they don't really wanna manage that. They just wanna, you know, deliver business, benefit to their customers and respond Thio, You know competitive threats in the marketplace, etcetera. So it's really an interesting time for the infrastructure, you know, to really support kind of. This at first point of view versus the other way around is kind of what it used to be and and enable this hyper fast development, hyper fast change and in the competitive landscape, or else you will be left behind. Um, so super important stuff. >>Yeah. No, I totally agree. And as I said, I mean, it's it's kind of interesting because we we started on the Cisco Data Center side we started. It's probably six or seven years ago, uh, when we when we named the applications centric. Clearly, a lot of these concepts evolved, but in a sense it is. That reversal of the role from the network provides something, and you used Teoh. This is what I want to do. And I need a service thinking on the networking side to explosives that can be consumed, and so that clearly is playing out and said automation is a key key foundation that we put in place in our customers. Most of our customers this point on these on these products, uh, they have all the capabilities there, they can literally take advantage. There's really nothing that stops them point. >>Well, it's good times for you because I'm sure you've seen all the memes in in in social media, right? What's driving your digital transformation? Is that the CEO, the CMO or cove it? And we all know the answer to the question, so I don't think the pace of change is going to slow down any time soon. So for keeping the network up and enabling us all the get done, what we have to get done and and all the little magic that happens behind the scenes >>Yeah, no thanks. Thanks for having me. And again. Yeah, if you're listening and you're wondering, how do I get started? Cisco Definite. It's the place to go. It's, you know, fantastic, fantastic environment. And I highly recommend everybody roll up your sleeve and you know the best reasons you can have. >>Yeah, and we know once the physical events come back, we've been toe definite, create a bunch of times, and it's a super vibrant, super excited, really engaged community. Sharing lots of information is kind of that's still kind of that early vibe. You know where everyone is is still really enthusiastic and really about learning and sharing information. So, you know, like this using the team were really built a great thing. And we're happy to continue to cover it. And eventually we'll be back face to face. >>Okay, Look forward to that as well. >>All right, Thanks. He's Thomason. Jeff, you're watching Continuing coverage of Cisco. Definite accelerating with automation and program ability. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue. Now here's your host. Still minimum. >> I'm stupid, Aman and this is a cube conversation from our Boston area studio. We spent a lot of time talking about digital transformation. Of course, At the center of that digital transformations data this segment We're going to be talking about the data integration platform. Joining me for that segment is Itamar on Cory on Who's the senior vice president of enterprise data Integration with Click. Thanks so much for joining me. >> Thanks to left me here. >> All right, so a zay just said, you know the customers, you know, digital information when you talked to any user, you know, there there's some that might say, Oh, there's a little bit of hyper I don't understand it, but really leveraging that data, you know, there are very few places that that is not core toe what they need to do, and if they're not doing it, they're competition will do it. So can you bring us inside a little bit? That customers you're talking to that, that you know where that fits into their business needs and you know how the data integration platform, you know, helps them solve that issue. >> Absolutely so, As you mentioned, the diesel transformation is driving a lot ofthe innovation, a lot off efforts by corporations and virtually any organization that we're talking. Toa seize data is a core component off, enabling the little transformation. The data creates new analytics, and there was toe power, the digital transformation, whether it's in making better decisions, whether it's embedding the analytics and the intelligence into business processes and custom applications to ever to reach the experience and make it better. So data becomes key, and the more data you can make available through the process, the faster you can make a development in the process. The faster you can adapt your process to accommodate the changes, the better it will be. So we're saying organization, virtually all of them looking to modernize their day, the strategy and the day, the platforms in order to accommodate these needs. >> Yeah, it's such a complex issue. We've we've been at, you know, chief data officer events way, talk about data initiatives. You know, we worry a little bit that the sea seats sometimes here it's like up. They heard data is the new oil and they came and they said, You know, according to the magazine I read, you need we need to have a date, a strategy, and give me the value of data. But, you know, where is the rubber hitting the road? You know what? What are some of those steps that they're taking? You know, how do I help, you know, get my arms around the data and that help make sure it can move along that spectrum from kind of the raw or two, you know, real value. >> I think you made a great point. Talking about the or to value our as we refer to it is a road to ready. And part of the whole innovation that we're seeing is the modernization of the platform where organizations are looking to tap into the tremendous amount of data that is available today. So a couple of things have happened first in the last decade. First of all, we have significantly more data. It is available and and then ever before, because of digitization, off data and new sources become available. But beyond that, we have the technology is the platforms that can both store in process large amounts of data. So we have foundations. But in the end, to make it happen, we need to get all the data to where we want to analyze it and find a way to put it together and turning from more row material into ready, material ready products that can be consumed. And that's really where the challenges and we're seeing. A lot of organizations, especially the CEO Seo the animals, architecture and First data architecture, teams on a journey to understand how to put together these kind of architectures and data systems. And that's where without data integration platform, we focused on accommodating the new challenges they have encountered in trying to make that happen. >> Yeah, help us unpack a little bit, You know, a here today. You know, it's the economy. Everything should work together when I rolled out. You know, in our company, you know, the industries leading serum, it's like, Oh, I've got hundreds of data sources and hundreds of tools I could put together, and it should be really easy for me to just, you know, allow my data to flow and get to the right place. But I always always find a lot a lot of times that that easy. But I've been having a hard time finding that so so >> that that's a good point. And if you cannot takes the bag, understand water, this side of the court challenges or the new needs that we're seeing because we talk about the transformation and more than analytics field by data being part of it. More analytics created a new type of challenges that didn't exist before and therefore kind of traditional data integration tools didn't do the job they didn't meet. Those model needs me very touched on a few of those. So, first of all, and people, when customers are implementing more than analytics many times where they refer to escape well they're trying to do is to do a I machine learning. We'LL use those terms and we talk about him but machine learning and I get smarter, the more data you give them. So it's all about the scale of data, and what we're seeing with customers is where if in the past data warehouse system, but if typically had five ten twenty, they the source is going into it. When I was saying one hundred X uh, times that number of sources. So we have customers that worked with five hundred six hundred, some over two thousand source of data feeding the data analytics system. So scale becomes a critical need and we talk about scale. You need the ability to bring data from hundreds or thousands of sources so systems efficiently with very low impact and ideally, do it also with less resources. Because again, you need to scale the second second chair and you ran in tow s to do with the fact that more than analytics for many organizations means real Time analytics or streaming analytics. So they wantto be ableto process data in real time. In response for that, to do that, you need away toe move data, capture it in real time and be able to make it available and do that in a very economic fashion. And then the third one is in order to deal with the scare in order to deal with the agility that the customers want. The question is, well, are they doing the analytics? And many of them are adopting the cloud, and we've been seeing multicoloured adoption. So in order to get data to the cloud. Now you're dealing with the challenge of efficiency. I have limited network band with. I have a lot of data that I need to move around. How can I move all of that and do that more efficiently? And, uh, the only thing that would add to that is that beyond that, the mechanics of how you move the data with scale, with efficiency even in real time there's also how you approach the process where the whole solution is to beware. What a join those the operations you can implement and accommodate any type of architecture. I need to have a platform that you may choose and we sink us was changed those overtime. So I need a breather to be agile and flexible. >> Yeah, well, ah, Lotto unpack there because, you know, I just made the comment. You know, if you talk about us humans, the more data we give them doesn't mean I'm actually going to get better. It's I need to We need to be able to have those tool ings in there to be able to have that data and help give me the insights, which then I could do on otherwise, you know, we understand most people. It's like if I have to make decisions or choices and I get more thrown at me, there's less and less likelihood that I can do on that on boy the Data Lakes. Yeah, I I remember the first time I heard Data Lakes. It was, you know, we talked about what infrastructure rebuilding, and now the last couple of years, the cloud public cloud tends to be a big piece of it. Even though we know data is goingto live everywhere, you know everything, not just public private ground. But EJ gets into a piece of it so that you know that the data integration platform, you know how easy it for customers get started on that We'LL talk about that diversity of everything else, you know, Where do they start? Give me a little bit of kind of customer journey, if you would. And maybe even if you have a customer example that that would be a great way to go illustrated. >> Absolutely so First of all, it's a journey, and I think that journey started quite a few years ago. I mean, do it is now over ten years old, and they were actually seeing a big change in shifting the market from what was initially the Duke ecosystem into a much brother sort of technology's, especially with the cloud in order to store and process large scales of data. So the journey customs we're going through with a few years, which were very experimental customers were trying trying it on for size. They were trying to understand how Toby the process around it, the solutions of them ivory batch oriented with may produce back in the early days off. But when you look at it today, it's a very it's already evolved significantly, and you're saying this big data systems needing to support different and diverse type off workloads. Some of them are michelle machine learning and sign. Some of them are streaming in the Olympics. Some of them are serving data for micro services toe parad, Egil applications. So there's a lot of need for the data in the journey, and what we're seeing is that customers as they move through this journey, they sometimes need to people and they need if they find you technology that come out and they had the ability to be able to accommodate, to adapt and adopt new technologies as they go through. It s so that's kind of the journey we have worked with our customers through. And as they evolved, once they figured it out, this scale came along. So it's very common to see a customer start with a smaller project and then scale it up. So for many of the cost me worked with, that's how it worked out. And you ask for an example. So one of her customers this month, the world's largest automotive companies, and they decided to have a strategy to turn what they believe is a huge asset they have, which is data. But the data is in a lot of silos across manufacturing facility supply facilities and others inventory and bring it all together into one place. Combined data with data to bring from the car itself and by having all the data in one place, be able to derive new insights into information that they they can use as well as potentially sale or monetizing other other ways. So as they got started, they initially start by running it out to set a number off their data data centers and their source of information manufacturing facilities. So they started small. But then very quickly, once they figured out they can do it fast and figure out the process to scale it. Today, there are over five hundred systems they have. Martha is over two hundred billion changes in data being fed daily. Okay, enter their Data lake. So it's a very, very large scale system. I feel we can talk about what it takes to put together something so big. >> Yeah. Don't pleaded. Please take the next step. That would that would be perfect. >> Okay, so I think whether the key things customers have to understand, uh, you were saying that the enterprise architecture teams is that when you need to scale, you need to change the way you think about things. And in the end of the day, there are two fundamental differences in the approach and the other light technology that enabled that. So we talked earlier about the little things help for the mind to understand. Now I'm going to focus on and hide it. Only two that should be easy to take away. First is that they're the move from bench to real time or from batch tow. The Delta to the changes. Traditionally, data integration was done in the best process. You reload the data today if you want to scale. If you want to work in a real time, you need to work based on the Delta on the change, the fundamental technology behind it. It's called change data capture, and it's like technology and approach. It allows you to find and identify only the changes on the enterprise data systems and imagine all the innovation you can get by capturing, imposing or the change is. First of all, you have a significant impact on the systems. Okay, so we can scale because you were moving less data. It's very efficient as you move the data around because it's only a fraction off the data, and it could be real time because again, you capturing the data as it changes. So they move from bitch to real time or to streaming data based on changes. The capture is fundamental, fundamental in creating a more than their integration environment. >> I'm assuming there's an initial load that has to go in something like that, >> correct. But he did that once and then for the rest of the time you're really moving onto the deltas. The second difference, toe one was get moving from batch toe streaming based on change. The capture and the second eyes how you approach building it, which is moving from a development. Let platform to automation. So through automation, you could take workloads that have traditionally being in the realm ofthe the developer and allow people with out development skills to be able to implement such solutions very quickly. So again, the move from developer toe toe configuration based automation based products or what we've done opportunity is First, we have been one of the pioneers in the innovators in change that I capture technology. So the platform that now it's part of the clique that integration plan from brings with it okay over fifteen years off innovation and optimization change their capture with the broader set of data sources that our support there, with lots of optimization ranging from data sources like sickle server and Oracle, the mainstream toe mainframes and to escape system. And then one of the key focus with the head is how do we take complex processes and ultimatum. So from a user perspective, you can click a few buttons, then few knobs, and you have the optimize solution available for making data moving data across that they're very sets off systems. So through moving on to the Delta and the automation, you allow this cape. >> So a lot of the systems I'm familiar with it's the metadata you know, comes in the system. I don't have to as an admin or somebody's setting that up. I don't have to do all of this or even if you think about you know, the way I think of photos these days. It used to be. I took photos and trying to sort them was, you know, ridiculous. Now, my, you know, my apple or Google, you know, normally facial recognition, but timestamp location, all those things I can sort it and find it. You know, it's built into the system >> absolutely in the metadata is critical to us to the whole process. First of all, because when you bring data from one system to another system, somebody's to understand their data. And the process of getting data into a lake and into a data warehouse is becoming a multi step day the pipeline, and in order to trust the data and understanding that you need to understand all the steps that they went through. And we also see different teams taking part in this process. So for it seemed to be able to pick up the data and work on it, it needs to understand its meta data. By the way, this is also where the click their integration platform bring together the unity software. Together with Click the catalyst, we'LL provide unique value proposition for you that because you have the ability to capture changed data as it changes, deliver that data virtually anywhere. Any data lake, any cloud platform, any analytic platform. And then we find the data to generate analytic ready data sets and together with the click data Catalyst, create derivative data sets and publish all of their for a catalogue that makes it really easy to understand which data exists and how to use it. So we have an end to end solution for streaming data pipelines that generate analytic data that data sets for the end of the day, wrote to ready an accelerated fashion. >> So, Itamar, your customers of the world that out, How did they measures Casesa? Their critical KP eyes is there You know some, you know, journey, you know, math that they help go along. You know what? What? What are some commonalities? >> So it's a great question. And naturally, for many organizations, it's about an arrow. I It's about total cost of ownership. It seeing result, as I mentioned earlier, agility and the timeto value is really changing. Customers are looking to get results within a matter of, if very few month and even sometimes weeks versus what it used to be, which is many months and sometimes even years. So again, the whole point is to do with much, much faster. So from a metric for success, what we're seeing his customers that buy our solution toe enable again large scale strategic initiatives where they have dozens to hundreds of data sources. One of the key metrics is how many data sources heavy onboard that heavy, made available. How many in the end of the data sets that already analytic ready have we published or made available Torrey Tor users and I'LL give you an example. Another example from one of for customers, very large corporation in the United States in the opportunity of after trying to move to the cloud and build a cloud Data Lake and analytic platform. In the two years they're able to move to two three data sets to the cloud after they try, they knew they'd integration platform okay, there. But they moved thirty day The sits within three months, so completely different result. And the other thing that they pointed out and actually talk about their solution is that unlike traditional data integration software, and they took an example of one of those traditional PTL platforms and they pointed out it takes seven months to get a new person skilled on that platform. Okay, with our data integration platform, they could do that in a matter of hours to a few days. So again, the ability to get results much faster is completely different. When you have that kind of software that goes back to a dimension about automation versus development based mouth now, >> it really seems like the industry's going through another step function, just as we saw from traditional data warehouses. Tto win. Who? Duke rolled out that just the order of magnitude, how long it took and the business value return Seems like we're we're going through yet another step function there. So final thing. Yeah, You know what? Some of the first things that people usually get started with any final takeaways you want to share? >> Sure. First, for what people are starting to work with. Is there usually selecting a platform of choice where they're gonna get started in respect of whether Iran analytics and the one take a way I'LL give customers is don't assume that the platform you chose is we're going to end up because new technologies come to market, a new options come. Customers are having mergers, acquisitions, so things change all the time. And as you plan, make sure you have the right infrastructure toe allow you two kind of people support and make changes as you move through the throw. These are innovation. So they may be key key takeaway. And the other one is make sure that you're feeling the right infrastructure that can accommodate speed in terms of real time accomodate scale. Okay, in terms of both enabling data legs, letting cloud data stores having the right efficiency to scale, and then anything agility in respect to being able to deploy solution much, much faster. Yeah, >> well, tomorrow I think that. That's some real important things to say. Well, we know that the only constant Internet industry is change on DH. Therefore, we need to have solutions that can help keep up with that on and be able to manage those environments. And, you know, the the role of is to be able to respond to those needs of the business fast. Because if I don't choose the right thing, the business will go elsewhere. Tara trying to fuck with Angelo. Thank you so much for sharing all the latest on the immigration data platforms. Thank you. Alright, Uh, always lots more on the cube dot Net comes to minimum is always thanks for watching.

but cute at servicenow knowledge 14 is sponsored by service now here are your hosts Dave vellante and Jeff Creek we're back this is Dave vellante with Jeff Frick we're here live at moscone south and we're covering wall-to-wall this knowledge conference service now transforming IT from a cost center into a value producer services is the the tip of the spear service oriented businesses we're seeing this notion of a single cmdb as a single data model as a very powerful concept and one that the majority of companies don't have today but the ones that are moving in that direction are definitely transforming in a way that is pretty meaningful Brad Powell is here he's the vice president of internal customer technologies that merits a customer of service now Brad welcome back to the queue good thank you it's good to be here so you are speaking at this event right absolutely what's your topic IT evolution so taking IT to the next level okay so before we get it to that tell us a little bit about your company you know you roll what you've been doing you know the last since we last talked sure absolutely well we're actually going through a huge cultural shift inside of merits right now and it's all about the people right IT needs to realize that we're really a service based organization now and so that's really hard for people to grasp right we talk about i.t changing all the time and when IT people here that they think moving from one technology to a new technology this time it's completely different it's all about the people so we're asking the IT people to change and be more like sales people to really sell the services that it's-- offering and that's difficult for them so I'm really driving that inside America's culture from an organization perspective to really get out in front of it and solve real people needs you know we talk about business needs it's really people needs that we need to solve and so that's what I've been up to so what are some of the secrets because we that keeps coming up over and over that is going to change and like it its people and probably love we're getting out of their comfort zones oh absolutely are they reset you know how receptive are they really i think you know you have some people that are receptive some people that aren't but they have to get out of there there there East their comfort right to be able to do this and what it really takes is you got to step back and look at the bigger picture right this is kind of where tools come in IT has always been this kind of working on request working on incidents tracking it in that way those metrics are really are useless to our customers because we are trying to prove our existence by numbers they don't care right they carry solving my problems right so we have to transition them out and that's where you bring tools in because what you're able to do is automate those activities right and anytime that you're freeing up from them that's when you take them out and move them into the business actually sitting with the business to understand and listen to what they're saying so that they can solve those business needs so that's what you have to do and it is very uncomfortable for IT I always think about the old saturday night live skit I don't know if you guys remember it but it had the IT people and they call right and they'd say here can you solve this and you'd say click here do this do this and they move and then they jump out of the way and he'd slam on the keyboard and fix it right that's the old IT that's the old silo die team we don't have that anymore now we need to listen become that sales become brokers of services it's interesting you talk about you know sales itea sales people I had we had one of the guests on Martha hella actually said generally IT people are not great salespeople they undersell mom now now part of the issue is a sales person you want a hot product right we got a hot product that you're really proud of then it's easier mm-hmm to sell so I guess the question is how has your product evolved in the last you know in years and and what have been the drivers so the product how you need to evolve you know when you're started talking about tools is ease of use that is going to be the number one selling for your customers of IT above anything else so if I can give the customer solution like they get it at home you know if they have a problem they google it they look it up they fix it themselves so you need to really take that to the next level and sell that where you bring the people in to get them engaged is they know the back-end technology in order to make that happen and so they get excited about that and then what you need to do is put people in front of them to really sell that to the business I'm talking marketing slicks I'm talking everything that's where you need to do really so you guys are doing collateral yeah we have to be able to sell your IT services I mean that's what it's all about we are transitioning to a service based culture one hundred percent and you know you brought up a good point there are a lot of people that just can't make that transition it doesn't mean that we don't need them anymore what it does mean though is you need to really focus their efforts in a certain area and then put that customer facing sales oriented people out in front of the customers so what was the contribution of service now to this transformation was it you know a little small piece of it was it the you know the other end of the spectrum the reason why was it the key enabler talk about them yeah well when you look at it and this is you know coming back to from a tools discussion is what you want to do is you want to be able to free up that it's-- time right in order to do that you need to automate in order to automate you need tools to automate which is the orchestration pieces and things like that of service now so that is actually enabler for us to free up the time to get in front of the businesses to be able to sell our services so that was a really big step in the right direction the other thing is ticketing systems of the past were just really used to track things right that's not the case anymore you don't just track things with IT ticketing systems now what you want to do is actually use it to sell your service okay so you have to build your catalog you have to build all those services in such a way that's easy to use like an Amazon things like that so that you can really sell those services and that's where the tools come in so it's actually twofold it frees up your IT people's time in order for them to get in front of business and then you need to use it to sell and get out of IT get into facilities management get into HR management all of those different things are huge and really it's like an upsell for IT well Brad that's really interesting because the research that we've done it with you gone so you started with problem management and change management like most service now customers but the research we've done at Wikibon when we asked people about moving to transforming to IT as a service and do you know service catalogs and what the biggest challenges what they tell us is that the hardest part is aligning with the business figuring out what the business needs aligning with those business needs developing those service catalogs in a way that resonates right the business so if I heard you correctly you're saying you started with problem and change management and all the sort of blocking and tackling and then that freed up resources for you guys to actually go and talk to the wallets of that dragon ization that's right you have to automate those activities that you do day in and day out from an incident change perspective and that frees up your staff to actually go sit with the business and listen and learn and that's a skill set that you have to teach your IT people but it's an important skill set because if you can put the eye teeth workforce actually with the business they'll hear the problems that they're facing and start to work through that with them and that's a win-win for everybody so I gotta ask you was culturally how did you achieve this of this transformation was it we was a situation where the the IT staff was sort of clamoring for this did you have to drag them kicking and screaming you know changes is often times not easy sometimes it's it's welcome but but often times it's not so how were you able to affect that that change from a cultural standpoint you know that that's a very good question and it wasn't easy I'll be honest with you it's a very difficult transition because you're changing people you know it's not too little thing like that so what you do is you find those things that motivate those right the real geeks of IT what do they want to do they want to automate they want to build those back-end systems so drive them towards that okay so that that gets them motivated and starting from the cultural shift and besides that you know they want to be innovative they really do if you talk to any IT guy they want to be innovative they want to make a difference it's just guiding them along path and it takes a lot of work to change a culture like that but it's so important and without it your IT organizations just aren't going to make it you know you have those people like your database administrators your system administrators that are set and siloed in their ways that's just the old IT you know though they need to go to cloud providers may be in work because you know they're still there still doing that type of activity but your corporate business now it's going to be service providers and that's how you need to make them change and understand that so a couple of questions so one is how are the business people receiving this new you know almost of pairing it sounds like with with IT folks and then to from the IT perspective what do they think about Amazon what do they think about shadow IT you know are they pissed about it are they happy to have something to combat it are they you know we just can't compete there they're working at a different speed than we are you know I this is one of the things I always talk about in my presentations at maritz is we don't I T in the future doesn't compete we complement and that's where you need to do so if you're putting a lot of your servers in the cloud and an Amazon or Azure build a portal and make it easy for your customers to do it too you're complimenting those services that's where I T needs to go is more of a complementing factor and the business are they liking it absolutely because we're solving real business problems they actually are getting there faster than I T right think about it when you go home you fix your own issues you go to the store it's easy its quick right you are driving the customers of I tier driving this cultural shift IT needs to catch up and get get going in this direction today excellent so let me get one more if I know we're getting light on time but I remember one of the highlights of knowledge 13 was the brad vegas movie where I think you hit every single venue up and down the strip from the from the airport to the Grand Canyon so I'm curious have they taken you out for the streets of San Francisco they have not taken me out for the streets of San Francisco but that was quite a life-changing event I tell you we hit every stop in Vegas you name it we were there and luckily they cut you know they didn't show the whole video they cut sections out that maybe was a little too risky we got to find that video we'll put it up on our playlist because it's certainly a must-see TV that cruise around San Francisco of a lot less interesting oh yeah you never know this is early yeah I Lombard Street whoo I hype 4head listen thanks very much for coming Lee anytime great to see you thank you so much I keep right there everybody would react with our next guest we're live from moscone we're here at servicenow knowledge we'll be right back this is the cube

you Wiki bon org this is the cube Silicon angles continuous production we're here at knowledge service now it's big used user conference that we'd be going this is day three for us we had a half day today but we've been meeting with a number of customers CIOs IT practitioners folks from kpn are here Petros L Stroh is the CIO of KPN and Martin the no blue is the person in charge of ServiceNow and manages that implementation at kpn Petra Martin welcome to the cube thank you thanks for having us good morning yeah it's it's our pleasure really appreciate you guys spending some time there let's start with kpn tell us more about kpn you are the dominant telecommunications provider in the Netherlands but tell us a little bit more about so kpn is actually quite important on the market of the Netherlands we focused mainly on fixed and wireless communication but also on IT solutions so customers we have over 45 million customers within the Netherlands and within the kpn we are serving around 26,000 employees so talk a little bit about what's happening in your your business I mean here you've got you know tremendous you know disruption and lots of competition but you still got a couple of big giant whales in the industry what's it like in your region so within our region what you see is this we are dominating the market quite heavily is the government is focusing on to get the monopolies down so we are struggling a lot getting other partners on the market and we have to serve them as well so it is a little bit of a hardest feel to working - yeah so there's a big hand it's sort of dictating some of the requirements that you have to comply to so what does that mean for your IT infrastructure what kind of pressures does that put on you so as we are dominating the infrastructure we need to allow our competitors to use our infrastructure so yeah we do that at the best serves as we can but it feels a little bit off I remember when we went to that the United States you have to bite your tongue and do it okay so let's let's get into the whole ServiceNow implementation well first of all is it if you've been to more multiple knowledge conferences or is this your first one so this is my first one for ServiceNow although it was two weeks ago I was also at the CA Technology event both in their Las Vegas as well so but I'm enjoying it a lot oh you spent a lot of time in less of a so so give me your impressions of the of the conference what do you think what I noticed and I'm not sure what Martha thinks of it but I taste a lot of fun and I really enjoy that their service now is really liking what they do they're really interesting and that gives me also a lot of energy and ideas what you could say utilize in the Netherlands yeah I'm also really impressed with the way it was organized it's good incredible you have 4,000 people who all can can drink and eat and and and and be in a conference room at the same time is incredible yeah the logistics were very good here the accommodations are very nice so and it's also a good mix of informal meetings meeting people in just in the hallways and having good conversations and good speeches as well and it's a good mix of CIOs and IT practice all right so let's get it to the service how long you guys been working with ServiceNow what was the catalyst to bring ServiceNow into your organization so we three years ago we started to work with ServiceNow so we have quite some experience at these states and a year ago we started to work with the self-service portal as well and I must say we started to become innovative using that kind of services okay so well what was the what was the catalyst to bring it in and how did you justify bringing it in so what we had in the in the previous time we had several systems that meant every time we had to unboard a customer it took several systems to work with so what we did is we decided within the company that we didn't want to develop our own software anymore so we were looking for the best breed of applications or suppliers that could help us to bring value to our business so one of the things what notified with ServiceNow is that they are first the best brief with this application area but also the relationship with ServiceNow is quite good because if you want a strategic partnership you need to focus both on also development and new functionalities and that's actually what we find in ServiceNow so how did it occur that you were able to bring in ServiceNow Petra it was that something that that you had a vision of was that someone like Martin brought it to your attention was that the CFO driving it how did that all come about and as I'm quite recently in the role but I know a little bit of history it was actually on the strategic level PP level where they decided we need to go into a another direction so together together with the CEO CFO etc decision has been made to go into a new direction and they finally select the service now for this part of business you feel like your executive management or RIT savvy man it's somewhat uncommon to have we keep hearing about the the Cobblers children but here you had a situation where the senior executives were pushing for something like this is that unique in your field and I think because our company is focusing both on telecommunication and IT they they know sometimes much more than we do so I think that is also part of of that job a bit of a blessing and a curse I think they know what they're talking about but that's also that the DAR says sometimes there's no even better yeah so there's there's no hiding enough to be dangerous and we need to make sure that we keep focus what we need to do and not interfering that then interfering us too much so that is quite a fat joke all right let's talk about the self-service capability that you've built it's describe what that is you seem you know very proud of it so I want to learn more about that yeah so we're quite proud on the self-service part of what we actually had started one year ago we started to build the self-service portal in which the customer has the possibility to find answers on their issues problem incidents etc and what makes it so unique is that actually customers who entered the self-service portal can find their answers directly they can do that 24 by 7 so as you know if you're Matt home and you work on your iPad you solution now and not tomorrow and what is also quite unique is that they uses from this community help each other and what does that mean is if you have an question and you go to the self-service parking don't find an answer you can accelerate your own no let's article goes to the service desk who make it qualified that it can enter into the system so the next time and other users has this question can find the right answer into this no its database so there's a social component of it now now where did that come from was that part of the service now capability if you guys build that no it's it's a it is part of the surface now capability but it was specifically thought up for this just to bring the cost down and to to keep it interactive weekly it's it's it's always strange to have people work with you and not being able to help each other but at night when evening they go home and write Wikipedia about other things so why not bring that action through the workplace so talk about the the clients that are on this using this self-service policy it's mostly internal clients but you also have external clients can you describe that so we have the customers who intern and you're using odd of course the people who have the office automation of workspace so they can use it for that one and actually this year we're going to bring also business applications to the knowledge articles so a 600 applications will be served by the self-service portal as well so that is mainly internal focus we have also external customers are over a thousand customers who also have the possibility to enter this self-service portal and find the answers on their questions and by the way we have reached this year that over ten percent of the incidents are actually solved by the users themselves and forty-one percent of customers who have a question to solve that answers on the self-service portal versa now what oversees what calling up sending an email nicely so that is amazing so it means the Service Desk can focus on the more complicated stuff where do you see those metrics going over time the idea of the self service desk is is that it will go up even beyond the 56 that's what we anticipate on so well when it gets to that level what happens you know to your business from a cost standpoint how does that you know how does that benefit can you quantify that in any way that is a little bit hard because we are in the way to find it out but for me as an idea responsibilities we always have to drive on cost so I'm I'm really looking forward to the cost is going down so what we did is we made an agreement with the service there's they promised us that a cost would go dramatically downsize and let's see what we will accomplish so maybe next year you can ask me what and so we we hear a lot of customers saying ok we start with incident and change and problem and we start building the CMDB yeah is that where you started and where are you on that journey that's that's where we started and that's where we're at now and we use the knowledge geoportal as well but we're always exploring other options ServiceNow is always expanding always always searching for new ways to to please their customers and our our vision on this is that we already paid for all those modules so why not use them so we're always exploring at the moment we're exploring the asset management module and we're exploring the vendor management module as well so you have existing tools to do things like vendor management and asset management how does that transition go how do you sort of bring on the new and tear down the old and how do you manage the disruption associated with that well it's it's of course always a life cycle and clothes driven sometimes certain things are just end of life cycle you have to replace them are you going to buy something new or are you going to buy or are you going to use something that is in sa P or in ServiceNow so that's that's always a choice you have to make can you go ahead so I think what is also quite important as I mentioned before we are always looking of the best-of-breed solutions what we do see is the Suites into ServiceNow we always look at them are they indeed the Best of Breed for that kind of specific services if not we will go for another solution if yes we will go for the service now and the second hand we're trying to influence ServiceNow as much as possible so they can actually change the modules into the way our customers are looking for so this brings up a very interesting discussion this whole best-of-breed versus integrated suite now you mentioned you use sa P there's a classic example sa PE the beauty of it is it's sort of big and you could do so many things with it but the problem is it's big uns how many things you could do with it it's complex so for instance if you want to do HR there might be some other packages so you your philosophy Petra is you guys want to be Best of Breed that's the the primary objective and then maybe secondarily is sort of the integrated suite is that right that's correct and so what we do is is for every process we are looking into application so no development on outside anymore we're looking for most of the times our solutions who are really Best of Breed in that kind of fur field so that is the idea now doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of sort of a single system of record or does you somehow integrate ServiceNow into maybe those other components yeah so we have a platform of several systems and we integrate them heavily so the CA technology which ServiceNow is heavily insert that and also sup we're looking into it how we can integrate that as well but that is quite a challenge yes the ServiceNow is our core and other systems are integrated in the ServiceNow fire bus now given that you're looking for sounds like you're really looking for SAS and off-the-shelf commercial software can I infer from that that you don't plan on developing a lot of your own applications you know we're hearing a lot about app creator and things like that or will you take advantage of those things so the app creation is definitely a field I'm interested in I because what I want is technology infrastructure should be a commodity everything seems working my customer these days want services they don't want technology so what I'm looking for is how can I keep up with the speed of my customers and therefore I'm looking for solutions outside of the market so we saw that presentation of threat with the application development and quite interested in that part that looks really promising so how do you so let's go back to the self-service for a bit because it's something that you guys are is somewhat unique in terms of what you're describing and it's quite a large scale when you think of self-service you think of things like you know Google and Facebook and Amazon do you feel like you're on the path to achieve that level of experience for your users I definitely think so and it's not because I'm saying it's my customer actually saying that and that is key important to me so we saw the satisfaction level of the customer went up and what we do also see is is the customer these days one 24/7 support so example you're coming home and your kid have problems with the iPad Mini I know how that % sure they go to my self-service for and it's fine and if they don't find the answer they can enter it into it so for me more open the better it is I have to serve each other yeah and you get learning from that that knowledge permeate so so how about things like single sign-on how do you handle that challenge we already incorporated single sign-on so it's not a problem for ServiceNow at the moment yeah we started that last year because what we saw is is people entering twice the system is not of their convenience so we started to enter that last year and I must say people are quite happy with it so tell me more about what the users are saying I'm interested in your client's experiences what kind of feedback have you received if it is a it's a good question you're asking there are double reaction first of all they are not aware of it so you need to make sure they get aware that there is a self-service portal so what we did we did a lot of communication and telling and broadcast in the world we have a new self-service portal once they get used to it is that quite happy with it and what you also see is this we're actually rewarding people to come to the self-service portal so every time they go that'll help someone they deserve points and in the net and say quite keen on getting points and I think based upon that the reactions became quite positive and they're quite upset if they can't find answer into the system so yeah I think that's positive I think users don't really care if they're using ServiceNow or something else they just wanted to work and and the ServiceNow is just it's just the means to an end I think that's a good thing he said it's actually not the tool it's actually the services of delivering and service and I was able to give us that possibility that's an interesting comment because you think about you think about sales force people sales people know they're in Salesforce now very sort of high degree of affinity there whereas ServiceNow it's invisible you're the you're the service and and that comes with the shell we put over it as well our self-service portal it gives us our own looking fuel so people don't have an idea they think they're on an internet sites probably yeah I love that philosophy ServiceNow seems to have they want to make you the heroes they don't want that's good okay we have time for one more question for each of you so petrol let me start with you from a cio perspective what advice would you give your CIO peers in terms of thinking about bringing in capabilities such as ServiceNow generally and specifically around self-service so my comment is what I do see is it's technology is a given for the customers the customers just want the serves and they want the best service that is so what I think you need to do is make sure your lights on is as it should be but focus so much more on the self-service so people can have the perception that they get what they want and they get it now and they get it whenever and the best kind of answers they're looking for so I think that's why you need to look for and with your own department you will not be able to do that anymore so you need partners to help you to be quick flexible and profiling to service your customer wants no marks on your in the front lines yeah making it all happen what advice would you give your fellow peers and practitioners I would say invest heavily in heavily in communication as well people process and especially the people part is very important if you're replacing all tools with new tools people always get a bit homesick and they want their all they want the old functionality back and you have to force them to get to give it to give it a chance and stay state state suit will be out of the box SAS solution don't go changing too much in the beginning and really give people the time and a chance to to get the note to get to know to get to know the new product yeah communicate those benefits I see I pet your Martin thank you very much for coming on and sharing the the kpn service now stories really pleasure meeting you both alright keep it right there everybody we'll be back with the winner of the hackathon right after this this is the cube so like an angle we'll be back right after this word