>>Good afternoon, friends. My name is Savannah Peterson here in the Cube Studios live from Detroit, Michigan, where we're at Cuban and Cloud Native Foundation, Cloud Native Con all week. Our last interview of the day served me a real treat and one that I wasn't expecting. It turns out that I am in the presence of two caddies. It's a literal episode of Caddy Shack up here on Cube. John Furrier. I don't think the audience knows that you were a caddy. Tell us about your caddy days. >>I used to caddy when I was a kid at the local country club every weekend. This is amazing. Double loops every weekend. Make some bang, two bags on each shoulder. Caddying for the members where you're going. Now I'm >>On show. Just, just really impressive >>Now. Now I'm caddying for the cube where I caddy all this great content out to the audience. >>He's carrying the story of emerging brands and established companies on their cloud journey. I love it. John, well played. I don't wanna waste any more of this really wonderful individual's time, but since we now have a new trend of talking about everyone's Twitter handle here on the cube, this may be my favorite one of the day, if not Q4 so far. Drew, not reply. AKA Drew ne Drew Nielsen, excuse me, there is here with us from Teleport. Drew, thanks so much for being here. >>Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. >>And so you were a caddy on a whole different level. Can you tell us >>About that? Yeah, so I was in university and I got tired after two years and didn't have a car in LA and met a pro golfer at a golf course and took two years off and traveled around caddying for him and tried to get 'em through Q School. >>This is, this is fantastic. So if you're in school and your parents are telling you to continue going to school, know that you can drop out and be a caddy and still be a very successful television personality. Like both of the gentlemen at some point. >>Well, I never said my parents like >>That decision, but we'll keep our day jobs. Yeah, exactly. And one of them is Cloud Native Security. The hottest topic here at the show. Yep. I want to get into it. You guys are doing some really cool things. Are we? We hear Zero Trust, you know, ransomware and we even, I even talked with the CEO of Dockets morning about container security issues. Sure. There's a lot going on. So you guys are in the middle of teleport. You guys have a unique solution. Tell us what you guys got going on. What do you guys do? What's the solution and what's the problem you solve? >>So Teleport is the first and only identity native infrastructure access solution in the market. So breaking that down, what that really means is identity native being the combination of secret list, getting rid of passwords, Pam Vaults, Key Vaults, Yeah. Passwords written down. Basically the number one source of breach. And 50 to 80% of breaches, depending on whose numbers you want to believe are how organizations get hacked. >>But it's not password 1 23 isn't protecting >>Cisco >>Right >>Now. Well, if you think about when you're securing infrastructure and the second component being zero trust, which assumes the network is completely insecure, right? But everything is validated. Resource to resource security is validated, You know, it assumes work from anywhere. It assumes the security comes back to that resource. And we take the combination of those two into identity, native access where we cryptographically ev, validate identity, but more importantly, we make an absolutely frictionless experience. So engineers can access infrastructure from anywhere at any time. >>I'm just flashing on my roommates, checking their little code, changing Bob login, you know, dongle essentially, and how frustrating that always was. I mean, talk about interrupting workflow was something that's obviously necessary, but >>Well, I mean, talk about frustration if I'm an engineer. Yeah, absolutely. You know, back in the day when you had these three tier monolithic applications, it was kind of simple. But now as you've got modern application development environments Yeah, multi-cloud, hybrid cloud, whatever marketing term around how you talk about this, expanding sort of disparate infrastructure. Engineers are sitting there going from system to system to machine to database to application. I mean, not even a conversation on Kubernetes yet. Yeah. And it's just, you know, every time you pull an engineer or a developer to go to a vault to pull something out, you're pulling them out for 10 minutes. Now, applications today have hundreds of systems, hundreds of microservices. I mean 30 of these a day and nine minutes, 270 minutes times 60. And they also >>Do the math. Well, there's not only that, there's also the breach from manual error. I forgot to change the password. What is that password? I left it open, I left it on >>Cognitive load. >>I mean, it's the manual piece. But even think about it, TR security has to be transparent and engineers are really smart people. And I've talked to a number of organizations who are like, yeah, we've tried to implement security solutions and they fail. Why? They're too disruptive. They're not transparent. And engineers will work their way around them. They'll write it down, they'll do a workaround, they'll backdoor it something. >>All right. So talk about how it works. But I, I mean, I'm getting the big picture here. I love this. Breaking down the silos, making engineers lives easier, more productive. Clearly the theme, everyone they want, they be gonna need. Whoever does that will win it all. How's it work? I mean, you deploying something, is it code, is it in line? It's, >>It's two binaries that you download and really it starts with the core being the identity native access proxy. Okay. So that proxy, I mean, if you look at like the zero trust principles, it all starts with a proxy. Everything connects into that proxy where all the access is gated, it's validated. And you know, from there we have an authorization engine. So we will be the single source of truth for all access across your entire infrastructure. So we bring machines, engineers, databases, applications, Kubernetes, Linux, Windows, we don't care. And we basically take that into a single architecture and single access platform that essentially secures your entire infrastructure. But more importantly, you can do audit. So for all of the organizations that are dealing with FedRAMP, pci, hipaa, we have a complete audit trail down to a YouTube style playback. >>Oh, interesting. We're we're California and ccpa. >>Oh, gdpr. >>Yeah, exactly. It, it, it's, it's a whole shebang. So I, I love, and John, maybe you've heard this term a lot more than I have, but identity native is relatively new to me as as a term. And I suspect you have a very distinct way of defining identity. How do you guys define identity internally? >>So identity is something that is cryptographically validated. It is something you have. So it's not enough. If you look at, you know, credentials today, everyone's like, Oh, I log into my computer, but that's my identity. No, it's not. Right. Those are attributes. Those are something that is secret for a period of time until you write it down. But I can't change my fingerprint. Right. And now I >>Was just >>Thinking of, well no, perfect case in point with touch ID on your meth there. Yeah. It's like when we deliver that cryptographically validated identity, we use these secure modules in like modern laptops or servers. Yeah. To store that identity so that even if you're sitting in front of your computer, you can't get to it. But more importantly, if somebody were to take that and try to be you and try to log in with your fingerprint, it's >>Not, I'm not gonna lie, I love the apple finger thing, you know, it's like, you know, space recognition, like it's really awesome. >>It save me a lot of time. I mean, even when you go through customs and they do the face scan now it actually knows who you are, which is pretty wild in the last time you wanna provide ones. But it just shifted over like maybe three months ago. Well, >>As long as no one chops your finger off like they do in the James Bond movies. >>I mean, we try and keep it a light and fluffy here on the queue, but you know, do a finger teams, we can talk about that >>Too. >>Gabby, I was thinking more minority report, >>But you >>Knows that's exactly what I, what I think of >>Hit that one outta bounds. So I gotta ask, because you said you're targeting engineers, not IT departments. What's, is that, because I in your mind it is now the engineers or what's the, is always the solution more >>Targeted? Well, if you really look at who's dealing with infrastructure on a day-to-day basis, those are DevOps individuals. Those are infrastructure teams, Those are site reliability engineering. And when it, they're the ones who are not only managing the infrastructure, but they're also dealing with the code on it and everything else. And for us, that is who is our primary customer and that's who's doing >>It. What's the biggest problem that you're solving in this use case? Because you guys are nailing it. What's the problem that your identity native solution solves? >>You know, right out of the backs we remove the number one source of breach. And that is taking passwords, secrets and, and keys off the board. That deals with most of the problem right there. But there are really two problems that organizations face. One is scaling. So as you scale, you get more secrets, you get more keys, you get all these things that is all increasing your attack vector in real time. Oh >>Yeah. Across teams locations. I can't even >>Take your pick. Yeah, it's across clouds, right? Any of it >>On-prem doesn't. >>Yeah. Any of it. We, and we allow you to scale, but do it securely and the security is transparent and your engineers will absolutely love it. What's the most important thing about this product Engineers. Absolutely. >>What are they saying? What are some of those examples? Anecdotally, pull boats out from engineering. >>You're too, we should have invent, we should have invented this ourselves. Or you know, we have run into a lot of customers who have tried to home brew this and they're like, you know, we spend an in nor not of hours on it >>And IT or they got legacy from like Microsoft or other solutions. >>Sure, yeah. Any, but a lot of 'em is just like, I wish I had done it myself. Or you know, this is what security should be. >>It makes so much sense and it gives that the team such a peace of mind. I mean, you never know when a breach is gonna come, especially >>It's peace of mind. But I think for engineers, a lot of times it deals with the security problem. Yeah. Takes it off the table so they can do their jobs. Yeah. With zero friction. Yeah. And you know, it's all about speed. It's all about velocity. You know, go fast, go fast, go fast. And that's what we enable >>Some of the benefits to them is they get to save time, focus more on, on task that they need to work on. >>Exactly. >>And get the >>Job done. And on top of it, they answer the audit and compliance mail every time it comes. >>Yeah. Why are people huge? Honestly, why are people doing this? Because, I mean, identity is just such an hard nut to crack. Everyone's got their silos, Vendors having clouds have 'em. Identity is the most fragmented thing on >>The planet. And it has been fragmented ever since my first RSA conference. >>I know. So will we ever get this do over? Is there a driver? Is there a market force? Is this the time? >>I think the move to modern applications and to multi-cloud is driving this because as those application stacks get more verticalized, you just, you cannot deal with the productivity >>Here. And of course the next big thing is super cloud and that's coming fast. Savannah, you know, You know that's Rocket. >>John is gonna be the thought leader and keyword leader of the word super cloud. >>Super Cloud is enabling super services as the cloud cast. Brian Gracely pointed out on his Sunday podcast of which if that happens, Super Cloud will enable super apps in a new architectural >>List. Please don't, and it'll be super, just don't. >>Okay. Right. So what are you guys up to next? What's the big hot spot for the company? What are you guys doing? What are you guys, What's the idea guys hiring? You put the plug in. >>You know, right now we are focused on delivering the best identity, native access platform that we can. And we will continue to support our customers that want to use Kubernetes, that want to use any different type of infrastructure. Whether that's Linux, Windows applications or databases. Wherever they are. >>Are, are your customers all of a similar DNA or are you >>No, they're all over the map. They range everything from tech companies to financial services to, you know, fractional property. >>You seem like someone everyone would need. >>Absolutely. >>And I'm not just saying that to be a really clean endorsement from the Cube, but >>If you were doing DevOps Yeah. And any type of forward-leaning shift, left engineering, you need us because we are basically making security as code a reality across your entire infrastructure. >>Love this. What about the team dna? Are you in a scale growth stage right now? What's going on? Absolutely. Sounds I was gonna say, but I feel like you would have >>To be. Yeah, we're doing, we're, we have a very positive outlook and you know, even though the economic time is what it is, we're doing very well meeting. >>How's the location? Where's the location of the headquarters now? With remote work is pretty much virtual. >>Probably. We're based in downtown Oakland, California. >>Woohoo. Bay area representing on this stage right now. >>Nice. Yeah, we have a beautiful office right in downtown Oakland and yeah, it's been great. Awesome. >>Love that. And are you hiring right now? I bet people might be. I feel like some of our cube watchers are here waiting to figure out their next big play. So love to hear that. Absolutely love to hear that. Besides Drew, not reply, if people want to join your team or say hello to you and tell you how brilliant you looked up here, or ask about your caddy days and maybe venture a guest to who that golfer may have been that you were CAD Inc. For, what are the best ways for them to get in touch with you? >>You can find me on LinkedIn. >>Great. Fantastic. John, anything else >>From you? Yeah, I mean, I just think security is paramount. This is just another example of where the innovation has to kind of break through without good identity, everything could cripple. Then you start getting into the silos and you can start getting into, you know, tracking it. You got error user errors, you got, you know, one of the biggest security risks. People just leave systems open, they don't even know it's there. So like, I mean this is just, just identity is the critical linchpin to, to solve for in security to me. And that's totally >>Agree. We even have a lot of customers who use us just to access basic cloud consoles. Yeah. >>So I was actually just gonna drive there a little bit because I think that, I'm curious, it feels like a solution for obviously complex systems and stacks, but given the utility and what sounds like an extreme ease of use, I would imagine people use this for day-to-day stuff within their, >>We have customers who use it to access their AWS consoles. We have customers who use it to access Grafana dashboards. You know, for, since we're sitting here at coupon accessing a Lens Rancher, all of the amazing DevOps tools that are out there. >>Well, I mean true. I mean, you think about all the reasons why people don't adopt this new federated approach or is because the IT guys did it and the world we're moving into, the developers are in charge. And so we're seeing the trend where developers are taking the DevOps and the data and the security teams are now starting to reset the guardrails. What's your >>Reaction to that? Well, you know, I would say that >>Over the top, >>Well I would say that you know, your DevOps teams and your infrastructure teams and your engineers, they are the new king makers. Yeah. Straight up. Full stop. >>You heard it first folks. >>And that's >>A headline right >>There. That is a headline. I mean, they are the new king makers and, but they are being forced to do it as securely as possible. And our job is really to make that as easy and as frictionless as possible. >>Awesome. >>And it sounds like you're absolutely nailing it. Drew, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having today. This has been an absolute pleasure, John, as usual a joy. And thank all of you for tuning in to the Cube Live here at CU Con from Detroit, Michigan. We look forward to catching you for day two tomorrow.

>>Drew and I are pleased to welcome Kevin Warda. Who's the director of information technology services at the Hotchkis school, a very prestigious and well respected boarding school in the beautiful Northwest corner of Connecticut. Hello, Kevin? >>Hello. It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me. >>Yeah, you, you bet. Hey, tell us a little bit more about the Hotchkis school and your role. >>Sure. The hacha school is an independent boarding school, grades nine through 12, as you said, very prestigious and in an absolutely beautiful location on the deepest freshwater lake in Connecticut, we have 500 K 500 acre main campus and a 200 acre farm down the street. My role is as the director of information technology services, essentially to oversee all of the technology that supports the school operations, academics, sports, everything we do on campus. >>Yeah. And you've had a very strong history in the educational field, you know, from that lens what's, what's the unique, you know, or not unique, but the pressing security challenge that's top of mind for you. >>I think that it's clear that educational institutions are a target these days, especially for ransomware. We have a lot of data that can be used by threat actors and schools are often underfunded in the area of it, security it in general sometimes. So I think threat actors often see us as easy targets or at least worthwhile to try to get into, >>Because specifically you are potentially spread thin underfunded. You gotta, you, you got students, you got teachers. So there really are some, are there any specific data privacy concerns as well around student privacy or regulations that you can speak to? >>Certainly because of the fact that we're an independent boarding school, we operate things like even a health center. So data privacy regulations across the board in terms of just student data rights Ferra, some of our students are under 18. So data privacy laws such as Copa apply HIPAA can apply. We have PCI regulations with many of our financial transactions, whether it be fundraising through alumni development, or even just accepting the revenue for tuition. So it's, it's a unique place to be. Again, we operate very much like a college would, right? We have all the trappings of a, of a private college in terms of all the operations we do. And that's what I love most about working education is that it's, it's all the industries combined in many ways. >>Very cool. So let's talk about some of the defense strategies from a practitioner point of view, then I want to bring in, in drew to the conversation. So what are the, the best practice and the right strategies from your standpoint of defending your, your data? >>Well, we take a defense and depth approach. So we layer multiple technologies on top of each other to make sure that no single failure is a key to getting beyond those defenses. We also keep it simple. You know, I think there's some core things that all organizations need to do these days in including, you know, vulnerability scanning, patching using multifactor authentication and having really excellent backups in case something does happen. >>Drew, are you seeing any similar patterns across other industries or customers? I mean, I know we're talking about some uniqueness in the education market, but what, what, what can we learn from other adjacent industries? >>Yeah, I, you know, Kevin is spot on and I love hearing what, what he's doing going back to our prior conversation about zero trust, right? That defense in depth approach is beautifully aligned, right? With a zero trust approach, especially things like multifactor authentication, always shocked at how few folks are applying that very, very simple technology and, and across the board, right? I mean, Kevin is referring to, you know, financial industry, healthcare industry, even, you know, the security and police, right. They need to make sure that the data that they're keeping evidence right. Is secure and imutable right, because that's evidence, >>Well, Kevin paint a picture for us, if you would. So you were primarily on, Preem looking at potentially, you know, using more cloud, you were a VMware shop, but tell us, paint a picture of your environment, kind of the applications that you support and, and the kind of, I wanna get to the before and the, after wasabi, but start with kind of where you came from. >>Sure. Well, I came to the hatchet school about seven years ago and I had come most recently from public K12 and municipal. So again, not a lot of funding for it in general security or infrastructure in general. So Nutanix was actually a solu, a hyperconverged solution that I implemented at my previous position. So when I came to Hodges and found mostly on-prem workloads, everything from the student information system to the card access system, that students would use financial systems, they were almost all on premise, but there were some new SAS solutions coming in play. We had also taken some time to do some business continuity planning, you know, in the event of some kind of issue. I don't think we were thinking about the pandemic at the time, but certainly it helped prepare us for that. So as different workloads were moved off to hosted or cloud based, we didn't really need as much of the on premise compute and storage as, as we had. And it was time to retire that cluster. And so I brought the experience I had with Nutanix with me, and we consolidated all that into a, a hyper-converged platform, running Nutanix AV, which allowed us to get rid of all the cost of the VMware licensing as well. And it is an easier platform to manage, especially for small it shops like ours. >>Yeah. AHV is the Acropolis hypervisor. And so you migrated off of VMware avoidance V the VTax avoidance. That's a common theme among Nu Nutanix customers. And now did you consider moving into AWS? You know, what was the catalyst to consider wasabi as part of your defense strategy? >>We were looking at cloud storage options and they were just all so expensive, especially in egress fees to get data back out, WASA became across our, our desks. And it was such a low, low barrier to entry to sign up for a trial and get, you know, terabyte for a month. And then it was, you know, $6 a month for terabyte. After that, I said, we can try this out in a very low stakes way to see how this works for us. And there was a couple things we were trying to solve at the time. It wasn't just a place to put backup, but we also needed a place to have some files that might serve to some degree as a content delivery network. Some of our software applications that are deployed through our mobile device management needed a place that was accessible on, on the internet that they could be stored as well. >>So we were testing it for a couple different scenarios and it worked great, you know, performance wise, fast security wise. It has all the features of, of S3 compliance that works with, with Nutanix and anyone who's familiar with S3 permissions can apply them very easily. And then there was no egress fees. We can pull data down, put data up at will, and it's not costing us any extra, which is excellent because especially in education, we need fixed costs. We need to know what we're gonna spend over a year before we spend it and not be hit with, you know, bills for, for egres or, or because our workload or our data storage footprint grew tremendously. We need, we need that. We, we can't have the variability that the cloud providers would give us. >>So Kevin, you, you explained you're hypersensitive about security and privacy for obvious reasons that we discussed. Were you concerned about doing business with a company with a funny name? Was it the trial that got you through that knothole? How did you address those, those concerns as an it practitioner? >>Yeah, anytime we adopt anything, we go through a risk review. So we did our homework and we checked the funny name really means nothing. There's lots of companies with funny names. >>I think we don't go based on the name necessarily, but we did go based on the history understanding, you know, who started the company, where it came from and really looking into the technology, understanding that the value proposition, the ability to, to provide that lower cost is based specifically on the technology, in which it lays down data. So, so having a legitimate, reasonable, you know, excuse as to why it's cheap, we weren't thinking, well, you know, you get what you pay for it. It may be less expensive than alternatives, but it's, it's not cheap. It's not, you know, it's, it's reliable. And that was really our concern. So we, we did our homework for sure before even starting the trial, but then the trial certainly confirmed everything that we had learned. >>Yeah. Thank you for that. Drew explain the whole egres charge. We hear a lot about that. What do people need to know? >>First of all, it's not a funny name, it's a memorable name, date, just like the cube. Let's be very clear about that. Second of all egres charges. So, you know, other storage providers charge you for every API call, right? Every get every, put every list, everything okay. It's, it's part of their, their, you know, their, their process. It's part of how they make money. It's part of how they cover the cost of all their other services. We don't do that. And I think, you know, as, as Kevin has pointed out, right, that's a huge differentiator because you're talking about a significant amount of money above and beyond. What is the list price? In fact, I would tell you that most of the other storage providers, hyperscalers, you know, their list price, first of all, is, is, you know, far exceeding anything else in the industry, especially what we offer and then right. Their, their additional cost, the egres cost, the API requests can be two, three, 400% more on top of what you're paying per terabyte. >>So you used the little coffee analogy earlier in our conversation. So I'm, here's what I'm imagining. Like I have a lot of stuff. Right. And, and I, I, I had to clear up my bar and I put some stuff in storage, you know, right down the street and I pay them monthly. I can't imagine having to pay them to go get my stuff. That's kinda the same thing here. >>Oh, that's a great metaphor, right. That, that storage locker, right? Yeah. You know, can you imagine every time you wanna open the door to that locker and look inside having to pay a fee? >>No, no, that would be annoying. >>Or, or every time you pull into the yard and you want to put something in that storage locker, you have to pay an access fee to get to the yard. You have to pay a door opening fee. Right. And then if you wanna look and get an inventory of everything in there, you have to pay and it's ridiculous. Yeah. It's your data, it's your storage, it's your locker. You've already paid the annual fee probably cuz that they gave you a discount on that. So why shouldn't you have unfettered access to your data? That's what wasabi does. And I think as Kevin pointed out, right, that's what sets us completely apart from everybody >>Else. Okay, good. That's helpful. It helps us understand how Wasabi's different. Kevin. I'm always interested when I talk to practitioners like yourself in, in, in learning what you do, you know, outside of the technology, what are you doing in terms of educating your community and making them more cyber aware? Do you have training for students and faculty to learn about security and, and ransomware protection? For example? >>Yes. Cyber security awareness training is definitely one of the required things everyone should be doing in their organizations. And we do have a program that we use and we try to make it fun and engaging too. Right? This is, this is often the checking, the box kind of activity. Insurance companies require it, but we wanna make it something that people want to do and wanna engage with. So even last year, I think we did one around the holidays and kind of pointed out the kinds of scams they may expect in their personal life about, you know, shipping of orders and time for the holidays and things like that. So it wasn't just about protecting our school data. It's about the fact that, you know, protecting their information is something you do in all aspects of your life. Especially now that the folks are working hybrid off of working from home with equipment from the school, this stakes are much higher and people have a lot of our data at home. And so knowing how to protect that is important. And so we definitely run, run those programs in a way that, that we want to be engaging and fun and memorable so that when they do encounter those things, especially email threats, they know how to handle them. >>So when you say fun, it's like you come up with an example that we can laugh at until of course we click on that bad link, but I'm sure you can, you can come up with a lot of interesting and engaging examples. Is that what you're talking about? About having fun? >>Yeah. I mean, sometimes they are kind of choose your own adventure type stories. You know, they, they, they, they stop as they run. So they're, they're, they're telling a story and they stop and you have to answer questions along the way to keep going. So you're not just watching a video, you're engaged with the story of the topic. Yeah. That's why I think is, is memorable about it, but it's also, that's what makes it fun. It's not, you're not just watching some talking head saying, you know, to avoid shortened URLs or to check, to make sure, you know, the sender of, of the email. Now you you're engaged in a real life scenario story that you're kind of following and making choices along the way and finding out was that the right choice to make or maybe not. So that's where I think the learning comes in. >>Excellent. Okay, gentlemen, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. Kevin drew awesome. Having you in the cube. >>My pleasure. Thank you. >>Yeah. Great to be here. Thanks. Okay. In a moment, I'll give you some closing thoughts on the changing world of data protection and the evolution of cloud object storage. You're watching the cube, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage.

>>mhm. Joining me now is Drew Schlussel, who is the senior director of product marketing at Wasabi. Hey, Drew. Good to see you again. Thanks for coming back in the Cube. >>They great to be here. Great to see you. >>All right, let's get into it. You know, Drew prior to the pandemic zero trust. Just like, kind of like a digital transformation. It was sort of a buzzword. And now it's become a real thing. Almost a mandate. What's what's Arby's take on zero trust? >>Uh, so absolutely right it was. It's been around a while, and now people are paying attention. Uh, sabes take is zero. Trust is is a good thing. Uh, you know, there are There are too many places right where the bad guys are getting in. And, you know, I think of zero. Trust is as kind of smashing laziness, right? It takes a little work, takes some planning, but, you know, done properly and using the right technology is using the right vendors. The rewards are of course, tremendous. Right? You you you can put to rest the fears of of ransomware and having your systems compromised. >>Well, and we're going to talk about this. But there's a lot of process and thinking involved and, you know, design in your zero trust. And you don't want to be wasting time messing with infrastructure. So we're gonna talk about that. There's a lot of discussion in the industry drew about a mutability and air gaps. I'd like you to share wasabi point of view on these topics. How do you approach it? And what makes wasabi different? >>Uh, so in terms of air gap and mutability, right, the beautiful thing about object storage, which is what we do all the time, is that it makes it that much easier. Right? To have a secure, immutable copy of your data someplace that's easy to access and, uh, doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to get your data back. Um, we're working with some of the best partners in the industry. Um, you know, we're working with folks like VM con vault Arc Marquis MSP 3. 60. Um, all folks who understand that you need to have multiple copies of your data. You need to have a copy stored offsite, and that copy needs to be immutable. And we can We can talk a little bit about what a mutability is and what it really means. >>You know, I want I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about with subi solution, because sometimes people don't understand. You actually are a cloud you're not building on other people's public clouds. And storage is the one use case where it actually makes sense to do that. Tell us a little bit more about those ABS approach and your solution. >>Yeah, I appreciate that. So there's there's definitely some misconception. We are our own cloud storage service. We don't run on top of anybody else, right? It's It's our systems. It's our software deployed globally, and we interoperate because we adhere to the S three standard. We interoperate with practically hundreds of applications, primarily in this case, right? We're talking about backup and recovery applications, and it's such a simple process, right? I mean, uh, just about everybody who's anybody in this business, protecting data has the ability now to, uh, access cloud storage. And so we've made it really simple. Uh, in many cases, you'll see wasabi, as you know, listed in the primary set of available vendors and, uh, you know, put in your private keys. Make sure that your account is locked down properly using, uh, let's say multi factor authentication, and you've got a great place to store copies of your data securely. >>I mean, we just heard from David friend. I did my math, right? He was talking about, you know, 1/6 the cost per terabyte per month, Maybe even a little better than that. How are you able to achieve such attractive economics? >>Yeah, So, you know, I can't remember how to translate my fractions into percentages, but I think we talk a lot about being 80% right, less expensive than the hyper scholars. And, you know, we talked about this at demon, right? There's there's some secret sauce there. Um, and, you know, we take a different approach to how we utilise the raw capacity to the effective capacity. And the fact is, we're also not having to run a few 100 other services, right? We do storage plain and simple all day, all the time, so we don't have to worry about overhead to support, you know, up and coming other services that are perhaps, uh, you know, going to be a loss leader right. Um, customers love it, right? They see the fact that their data is growing 40 80% year over year. They know they need to have some place to keep it secure. And, uh, you know, folks are flocking to us in droves. In fact, we're We're seeing a tremendous amount of migration, actually, right now, multiple petabytes being brought to Assad because folks have figured out that they can't afford to keep going with their current hyper scale or vendor. >>And the mutability is a feature of your product, right? What's the feature called? Can you dig? Double click on that a little bit? >>Yeah, Absolutely. Um So the determined s three is object lock. And what that means is your application will write an object to cloud storage, and it will define a retention period. Let's say a week. And for that period, that object is immutable. Untouchable cannot be altered in any way, shape or form. The application can't change it. The system administration can't change it with subi Can't change it. Okay, it is truly carved in stone, and this is something that it's been around for a while. But you're seeing a huge uptick in adoption and support for that feature by all the major vendors. And I named off a few earlier. Um, and the best part is that with the mutability comes some some sense of Well, it comes with not just a sense of security. It is security, right when you have data that cannot be altered by anybody. Um, even if the bad guys compromise your account, they steal your credentials, right? They can't take away the data. And that's a beautiful thing. A beautiful, beautiful thing. >>And you look like an s three bucket. Is that right? >>Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're fully compatible with the S three a p I. So if you're using S three a p I based applications today, um, it's a very simple matter of just kind of redirecting where you want to store your data. Beautiful thing about backup and recovery, right? That's probably the simplest application. Simple being a relative term as far as lift and shift right, because that just means for your next full right point that it was subi retain your other falls for whatever 30 60 90 days. And then once you've kind of made that transition from vine divine. You know you're off and running with wasabi. >>I talked to my open about the allure of object storage. Historically, you know the simplicity of the get put syntax. But what about performance? Are you able to deliver performance? That's that's comparable to other storage formats. >>Oh, yeah, Absolutely. And we've got the We've got the performance numbers on the site to back that up. But I forgot to answer something earlier, Right? You said that the mutability is a feature, and I want to make it very clear that it is a feature, but it's an API request. Okay, So when you're talking about gets and puts and so forth, you know the comment you made earlier about being 80% more cost effectively, percent less expensive. Um, you know that API call, right? It's typically something that the other folks charge for, right? And I think we use the metaphor earlier about the refrigerator. Uh, but I'll use a different metaphor today, right? Uh, you can think of cloud storage as as a magical coffee cup, right? It gets as big as you want to store as much copy as you want. And the coffee is always warm right, And when you want to take a sip, there's no charge. You want to pop the lid and see how much coffee is in there. No charge. And that's an important thing. Because when you're talking about millions or billions of objects and you want to get a list of those objects or you want to get the status of the immutable settings for those objects anywhere else, it's going to cost you money to look at your data. We'll also be no additional charge, and that's part of the thing that sets us apart. >>Excellent. Thank you for that. So you mentioned some partners before. How do partners fit into the wasabi story? Where do you stop? Where do they pick up what you know, What do they bring? Can you give us maybe a paint a picture for us? Example or two? >>Sure. So again, we just do storage, right? That is our Our sole purpose in life is to, you know, to safely and securely store our customers' data. And so they're working with, uh, their application vendors. Whether it's, you know, active archive backup in recovery, uh, Iot surveillance, uh, media and entertainment workflows, right? Those systems already know how to manage the day to manage the metadata. They just need someplace to keep the data that is being worked on being stored and so forth. All right, so just like, uh, you know, plugging in a flash drive on your laptop, right? You literally can plug in wasabi as long as your applications support the AP getting started. Incredibly easy, right. We offer a 30 day trial, one terabyte, and most folks find that within, you know, probably a few hours of their P O. C. Right. Um, it's giving them everything they need in terms of performance, in terms of accessibility, in terms of sovereignty. I'm guessing you talked to, uh, you know, Dave friend earlier about data sovereignty, right. We're global company. All right, so there's got to be probably, you know, wherever you are in the world, someplace that will satisfy your sovereignty requirements, um, as well as your compliance requirements. >>We did talk about sovereignty, Drew. This is really what's interesting to me. A bit of an industry historian. When I look back to the early days of cloud, I remember the large storage companies, you know, they CEOs would say, We're going to have an answer for the cloud and they would go out. And for instance, I No. One bought competitor of carbonite and then couldn't figure out what to do with it. They couldn't figure out how to compete with the cloud, in part because they were afraid it was going to cannibalise their existing business. I think another part is because they just didn't have that imagination to develop an architecture that in a business model that could scale to see that you guys have done that is I love it because it brings competition. It brings innovation, and it helps lower clients cost and solve really nagging problems like, you know, uh, Ransomware, mutability and recovery. I'll give you the last word, Drew. >>Yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, the the on prem vendors. They're not going to go away anytime soon, right? There's always going to be a need for, you know, incredibly low latency high band with, you know, But, uh, you know, not all data is taught all the time. And by hot, I mean, you know, extremely hot. Uh, you know, uh, you know, let's take, uh, you know real time, Uh, analytics for maybe facial recognition, right, That requires sub millisecond type of processing. But once you've done that work right, you want to store that data for a long, long time, and, uh, you're gonna want to also tap back into it later. So, you know, other folks are telling you that, you know, you can go to these like cold, glacial type of tiered storage. Don't believe the hype. You're still going to pay way more for that than you would with just a wasabi like hot cloud storage system. And, you know, we don't compete with our partners, right? We complement you know what they're bringing to market in terms of the software vendors in terms of the hardware vendors were beautiful component for that hybrid cloud architecture. And I think folks are gravitating towards that. I think the cloud is kind of hitting a new gear, if you will, in terms of adoption and recognition for the security that they can achieve with it. >>All right, Drew, Thank you for that. We definitely We see the momentum in a moment. Drew and I will be back to get the customer perspective with Kevin Referenda, who's the director of information technology services at the Hodgkiss School. Keep it right there. >>Mhm

>>Welcome back to VMO 2022. We're in the home stretch. Now, Dave ante for Dave Nicholson, and we're excited to have drew Schlissel on he's the director of product marketing at wasabi, and he is joined by Dustin Albertson, the manager of cloud and application alliances, product, product management at Veeam software. Dustin, did I get that right? You got it right. All right. You're gonna explain all those little titles in a moment. So wasabi is a company cool name, but you may not know much about them drew. What does wasabi do? >>We do cloud storage, plain and simple. It is the one thing we do extremely well. It's S3 compatible, and it covers a broad range of use cases, right? Primarily we work with Veeam on backup and recovery, and >>We're gonna get into that. But when we, what there's a lot of people do cloud storage, a lot of people do object store. What makes you wasabi unique >>Simplicity, predictability performance security, right? Predictability. Let's talk about price, right? That's the thing that gets people's attention, right? Oh, sure. Okay. You can look at it. One of two ways. It's either one fit the price of all the hyperscalers, significant difference there, or right. For fundamentally the same price. You get five times more storage, which makes a huge difference, especially in the backup space. When you want to have a lot of backups, right. Folks would prefer to have months of backups as opposed to days or weeks. Right? >>How do you, how do you do that? Because, because there's, you know, maybe >>It sounds like magic, doesn't >>It? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, look at us, we've all been around the block quite a few times and we know that the bits and the bites and the bolts are all basically the same. What are you doing to get that level of? >>I can't tell you >>Secret's secret. It's secret. >>Look, it, it doesn't have to be that expensive. Okay. Now granted, there's some things obviously we do that are proprietary and different from, >>Well, like stealing electricity from your neighbor or something. I mean, what, >>You just run a cord over a >>Absolutely that's one way to cut down on price. But because we are so focused on just the storage, right. And our founders, you know, the gentleman who founded Carbonite, no a thing or two about storage. Sure. Right. We have a very highly optimized stack, very efficient. You know, you guys know what raw to usable story is. Right? You've gone through that TCO analysis before, and we're highly efficient in how we use the raw storage. And we pass that price on to our customers. Right. We believe that a low price cloud storage, right? One tier always hot, always available. It gives our customers the ability to spend their money in other places. Right. >>Well, and, and there's a price umbrella that the public cloud guys have is kind of a gift that they've given you. Hey, look at Amazon's operating profits last quarter. It was 35%. Those are like Oracle operating margins. Not that I, we don't know what your operating margins are, but I I've followed David friend's career for a long, long time. He's got good nose for business. But so Dustin, when you, when you hear drew talk about the ability to retain that much data, what does that mean for Veeam customers? >>So the primary thing for Veeam customers is the ease of use. I would say, you know, the, the performance and things like that are all nice, right? They're, they're important. But primarily what I see is people say how easy it is to use and how easy it is to price. Now, the objective, you know, the alternative is you go to another cloud provider and you say, well, how much will this cost me per month? You really have to underst yes, you really have to understand object storage, how Veeam works, how we're moving data, all the API calls, all of that to really kind of correlate out a guesstimate of what your price would be per month. You know, with LASA it's, it's a flat fee it's per terabyte. You know what it is gonna be? That's it? There's no API charges. There's no egres. So the customers really love that. Ease of use this become one of the most popular endpoints for object storage for our customers. >>Imagine this, right? You go to best buy and you buy a refrigerator and you bring it home and you stock it with all your favorite drinks and snacks. Okay. You on game day, you go and you open the fridge and you hear a sound Bing. And it's your phone and it's your credit card company telling you that you've been charged a door opening fee. Okay. And then you grab a beer out of that fridge, Bing, Bing, and you hear another ring and now you're getting a beer extraction fee. Okay. Now I want to be fair to, you know, all the sponsors here, but okay. With wasabi, you can open that door. You could stand there. You can air condition, the whole house. You can take a beer out and put a beer back or whatever your favorite beverage is. And you're not gonna hear that noise. Okay. Very straightforward. Like in, in geometry class, right? The slope of a line Y equals MX plus B B equals zero. Okay. Well, >>Whoa. Well, you had me at free beer. You didn't, >>You don't, but you understand why? >>Why would you, you don't need to go see >>To open your fridge and take out a beverage, take out a snack. Okay. That's the predictable part of wasabi. That's what's resonating so strongly with folks where everything else is in this world. Unpredictable. >>So ease, simplicity. Maybe the answer to that is, well, there's all this other stuff in the cloud. I can just, it's convenient for me. It's right there. So how do you address that convenience factor? All these other services, you know, that I can get streaming and machine learning and all that other great stuff. How do you address that? >>Sometimes all you need is storage. Okay. That no, it that's yet put, okay. That's beauty of wasabi. We're not trying to be everything to everyone. We're trying to be one thing executed very well for a, a specific set of users and use cases. >>I may be a little objective here, but I, I, you know, I've grown up with you guys, right? You, you, you were one of the first partners that I started working with and, and, you know, I've seen you kind of grow, but one of the things I think that you've done a real good job at is, is like you say, sticking to your, your lanes, you know, just going after use cases that just need data. Right. I don't need to get into the AI or the analytics or all of this. We just do this and do it well. And, and people have resonated with that. Right? Yeah. >>So big topic here of course is ransomware. Yeah. 3, 2 11, 0. What is that? What are the threes? The twos, the ones >>That's you, you gotta explain that one. Okay. >>So forever we had the 3, 2, 1 rule, right? Like three copies of data, two different, two different copies, two different media types. Yeah. One offsite. And then one is, is testing. And then zero now is, is validation. BA basically reuse that data. Make sure that you're testing it because if you're not, if you're following through two one, and you're not actually testing your data, is it really good? You don't know. You're just, you may have bad copies spread out all over the place. So one of the things where wasabi shines is is that they don't have these E risk charges. They don't have these API charges. So you can test that data. You can, after you send a backup up there, restore it somewhere else and validate that it works and then get rid of it. And it's still sitting up there in BAA. >>So you're not trying to balance your activities and your operational requirements with your, with your bill. Correct. You're not getting yelled at, by the, the controller at the end of the month. >>You're unconstrained. Yeah. Right. And I think also imutability comes into play. Correct. As well. >>Talk about >>That. Right. So, you know, we heard this morning in the keynote, right? That backup data sets are, you know, one of the main attack vectors, right. For cyber criminals. And it makes sense, right. They take down your primary systems and they control your backup systems. They've got you. You have no choice, but to pay that ransom. Okay. So mutability, that means that your backups are untouchable, your root user, your admins, the folks at wasabi, the folks at Veeam, nobody can alter that data period. End of story. Okay. That saves you from yourself that saves you from the hackers, right? I mean the most disturbing story I've read about cyber warfare right now is that people are getting bribe offers from these cyber gangs. And they're just, you know, for a couple of Bitcoin handing over the keys to the kingdom with imutability, you're actually safe from that scenario. >>So that's a service, correct? >>No, it's a feature. >>Okay. So can I turn it off? >>Yeah. You don't have to use it. >>No. Can I, after I've, after I've turned it on, can I turn it off? >>Oh, it's up to you. I mean, why don't you talk about >>That? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's an API. So if let's say you send some backups up there today and you set it for two weeks and you decide today. Oh, I made a mistake. I wanna turn it off. You can't turn it off. Yeah. >>Okay. So as long as you set that policy, it's, it's a big warning, right? You can't undo this. Correct. Okay. So even if I come, come to jump to the admin with a bunch of Bitcoin yep. He or she can't undo, right? >>Nope. That's right. And you can set it for two weeks, two months, two years. Right. You can use it to secure your backups. Yep. Right. You can also use that same feature in compliance situations. Right. Regulatory environments, where you've gotta retain customer data for, you know, 5, 7, 10 years. Right. By using that imutability feature, you guarantee the integrity of that data for whatever period you set. >>And it's a feature it's not a paid for service. Is that right? >>It is included as part of the service. >>Okay. So I don't >>Free beer and free meat. >>I think I'm correct that some, some competitors you're paying for that service. So if you turn it off, there's a, if you don't stop paying, there's a, there's a theory. They could turn it off on you. They will warn you. >>Sure. But >>That says to me that somebody could be tempted by a few Bitcoin. >>That's not a mutable. Well's >>Notable. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >>Well, and, and there is a charge to use it in other places because it's an API request. Right. It's an action. It's opening the fridge. >>It's like texting. Yes. Maybe a charge. >>Yeah. I remember. I remember those days. Was it 10 cents? A 10 cents a message or something Telegraph. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. You still get those messages. Right? Text, text fees may apply. I'm like really? Okay. So tell me more about, so you got me. I'm sold. Okay. I've I've David friends got good job. Got cred, got credibility. Okay. But I have some other questions. Like where's my data. You guys running your own data centers. What's your global footprint. How do you deal with data sovereignty? All that stuff. >>So right now, oh boy. Now I'm on the spot. I wanna say 11 locations around the world. It's our gear. We're running it in concert with folks who are helping us host that system. Right. But we have complete control of course, over our systems. We're everywhere. Right? Just open, let's see. Toronto Frankfurt, Paris, London, Sydney just spun up in the last week. We've got Singapore coming online. I think in the next two weeks. Two >>In Japan. >>Yep. Two in Japan, multiple locations in the United States. So in terms of sovereignty, right, as long as folks are keeping it within, you know, their, their physical boundaries, not a problem. And if folks want to use, you know, other locations in other countries, great. We can support that as well. >>So you got momentum as a business. I mean, that's pretty clear. Yeah. Just from the discussions I've had with, with folks like David, and obviously you you're excited about this, where's it coming from? Is it really that, that price factor that's driving people to you? Is it Dustin said simplicity. I mean, where are you seeing the momentum geographies? Where is it? Where's the action. >>I I'll say, you know, from my point of view, it's, it's been a combination of all that, right? It, it's simple. It's easy to use a, like a user can, any user who's not cloud friendly, right. Can log in and create one. It's a simple portal to create a bucket and then start sending stuff off site. But also they've, they've kind of, they reminded me of a younger Veeam, like when they first started, because they went after the channel and they went and started these partner programs and, and MSP programs and things like that that have been really successful as far as one of the key markets is MSPs. Right? Because they, you know, want a cheap place to put this data. They don't wanna have to buy appliances. They don't wanna have to go to AWS and things like that. So this has been really appealing to >>Them. You know, it's interesting. So I have a, we have a partnership with a data company down in New York called enterprise technology research. We write a breaking analysis every week and we use a lot of their data. One of the things that popped up recently, maybe a year ago, OpenStack I'm like OpenStack. So we dug in like where's OpenStack and what it was was MSPs didn't want pay the VTax. Right. So they were rolling their own with, with open source and open stack. It was red hat services, blah, blah, blah. But it sounds like a similar dynamic, especially with the MSPs. >>I, so I think we've, I, I hate to use the, the metaphor, but I will. Right. There's a perfect storm happening, right. Especially in the last, what, two years. All right. The cloud has been gaining traction, but we've been around long enough to see the pendulum swinging. Right. Some folks went crazy for the cloud and then they got their bill and then they went crazy to get back out of the cloud. But now, you know, with distributed workforces, with the, you know, the, the constant attacks on their, their on-prem systems, right. The growth in cloud across the board has been phenomenal. I know you're a market watcher. Right. I know you guys are keeping close eyes. I saw your recent analysis on the cybersecurity firms. Right. It continues to grow. There's no question about it. We're we're on that wave. Right. And I think we've, you know, we're not, we're, we're, I don't know if it's the long board or the short little snappy board. Yes. We actually identify and, and, and went after the opportunity to partner with Veeam very early on, because it's the perfect work case work, work load. >>How long can you sustain that? And still resist the temptation to come out with some new shiny object to distract people? >>I >>Mean, what, what, what does that, what does that look like in terms of, as you look out in this laser focused yeah. Addressable market that you're going after now. >>So, you know, the best part about being here this week is having great conversations and, and talking to folks about what they're seeing in the marketplace and the different verticals. I don't think we've even scratched the surface of any of the verticals that we are working in today. Right. First and foremost, when it comes to backup and recovery, there's so much more opportunity with Veeam, right? Whether it's healthcare, manufacturing, logistics, analytics, backup of IML, you know, analysis, I think it's almost limitless, right. Data's growing what, 40, 80% year, over year, depending on who you ask. Right. Then the other things that we do, which maybe folks don't even know about, we have a burgeoning business in video surveillance, right. We're working with all the top partners in that sector. And the takeup is phenomenal because they are tweaking their technology to maintain a relatively small cash, right. OnPrem or in the central office. And then they're just kind of, you know, tearing that off to the cloud to have essentially a bottomless backup or archive of that footage. And they can do it at 4k. Here's the best part, right. When AK comes out, guess what, you know, that data set doubles in size. >>Right. But that's right in your zone. That's not stepping out that that's not stepping after that's that's classic leveraging. Good >>Answer. In other words. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. >>I mean, if >>You're, if you're, if you're hitting singles and doubles all day long, right. Do you have to switch to be a power hitter and go for the fences and drop your batting average down, but hope that your slugging percentage goes up. I think you keep hitting singles doubles, you know, in triples, >>A lot of people on Sandhill road or, you know, at the bar at the Rosewood would disagree with you. Wow. And so I, I appreciate the discipline. >>Yeah. And it's true. And, and as we know, the industry is littered with a lot of those names that just didn't didn't make it >>Let's stay positive, you know? >>Okay. No he's saying yeah, no, no. A lot of guys at sand hill road would say, no, you gotta go for it. Yeah. You gotta, you gotta forget these singles. We want, >>Yeah. We need home runs gotta be >>Shiny. Well, I mean, look at Vema as a, as a, as an example right. Of a disciplined approach. Right. Exactly. To, to a space that they have steadily grown. I mean, congratulations. Right. You guys have been identified by IDC, right. Is essentially, you know, co number ones. And I expect that to be the number one in the market. Right. I think, you know, David friend clearly has provided excellent guidance, right. To steer the company that way. And I'm just really happy >>To be about that. Oh. And the Tam is data. Right. And you're, you're just another node on the data universe. Right. Which is, that's what you want. You want, you don't necessarily wanna move it around. Yeah. If you don't have to. >>It is interesting though. I mean, we, we are seeing more and more analysts identifying with Sabi as like the fourth player. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. Right. And I also heard it from some good sources this week that let's say one of the hyperscalers has, you know, started to yeah. Have conversations about us. Let's just >>Leave it. That's good. It means you're bothering people. Yeah. Said, all right, guys, we gotta go. Thanks so much for coming on the queue. Thank you. Great to have you. That was easy. Thank you. Appreciate it. Very welcome. All right. Keep it right there. We'll be back to wrap up day one from VMO in 2022, right back.

>>Hi there. Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm John Farah, your host of the queue here in Palo Alto, California in our studios for cube conversation and remotely drew showcase VP of product management at Dell technologies. This segment is about autonomous operations and moving beyond the hype into practice reality of what's going on in automation. Drew, thank you for coming on this cube conversation >>And great job. Thanks John. >>So, uh, uh, automation, autonomous operation, everyone sees the Tesla's a self-driving cars. We even heard words like self-driving store self-driving data center, self-driving cloud. It's kind of a buzz word. It's been hyped up a lot, but it's becoming much more of a reality as people start to think about how to automate a way the, the manual undifferentiated tasks and move the value into either writing better software or into operations. This is kind of a hot topic. Uh, why, why is it so hot right now? What's your take? >>Yeah, I think the answer to this lies really in the digital transformation that every company is having to embrace right now. And I use the word company, but everything I described here would apply to public entities as well. I have plenty of conversations with governments and universities and so forth. And the leverage that cost share that I've heard used before. If you're not a technology company and you don't think you need to become one, you're not going to be around for very long because every business to business, business to consumer, even consumer to consumer interaction is becoming digitized. And so, you know, making all those connections, digital based takes human talent. And that's really at the core of why this is a hot topic. You know, anybody who's going to try and hire that talent right now, or who's actively trying is going to tell you the competition is fierce. >>It's a sellers market, so to speak in terms of getting capable it talent. And so this topic of automation and autonomous operations has an incredibly pragmatic component to it because you can't hire your way through digital transformation. Uh, if you're an element of your strategy is going to have to involve making that talent more efficient. And so along with good business processes, automation is going to be a prerequisite to make any progress on your digital transformation within a finite set up of it talent. So, you know, to your question, why is it a hot topic? I, you know, look at every entities, digital transformation is going to dependent on, >>You know, you've been around, uh, seeing a lot of ways of innovation come and go. You know, every one has its own kind of like unique characteristics. Now we're seeing with this transformation, this digital transformation, a lot of things kind of coming together. So it's always been the classic people, process technologies, you know, the three kind of areas people talk about, but if you look at what cloud and now edge and distributed computing is bringing into the equation, companies are identifying competitive advantages to processes that can be software enabled or defined or automated and where their workflows are, the IP of company. So this is kind of like a new revelations. Like, I mean, Ross has always been great with your manufacturing, whatever that was in place, but now the scale of that in digital with the apps out there, this has been a big focus of the modernization of applications. What's your, what's your reaction to that? >>Yeah, no, no, very much so it's, um, you bring up an excellent point kind of all the focus and attention that corporations have given to these other processes for time now that you know, this, this whole, um, you know, online, digital digitize, modern operations model, if it's flowing into that as well. And you know, it's, you know, at the end of the day to, to the, some of the points that you made here, you know, are, are you and your whatever business or entity that you're supporting, you know, are you pushing out the lovers levels of features and capabilities that your internal customers or your external customers need at the pace and velocity that you need to that's, that's where competition is going to take place. That's where business is going to be won or lost. And so I think seeing an indexing of the processes around that and our customers starting to think more about that is critical. Just as much to your point, as you know, uh, you know, the, this technology strategy. Um, and, and how are you going to engage, you know, your customers through a, uh, uh, a modern, you know, digitize processes is important for the factory as the factory line for Ford motor company is in terms of how they're going to be interfacing with their customers. So, um, yeah, very, very timely. And certainly top of mind. >>Yeah. And a lot of CEO's and customers that you work with. I know you guys are having a lot of conversations. We've talked with you guys in the past, across all of Dale, actually Dell technologies, and it's the same conversation. It's distributed computing and automation, AI machine linear, all factoring in workflows becoming competitive advantage. Now we're into this autonomous phase, which is like self running or healing or all these new, new stuff. When customers think about this, and we've heard CEOs talk about strategies, don't touch the white hot core until you get to the edges first, put your toe in the water, different approaches to tackling autonomous operators. What sort of, um, strategies and results should customers expect as they go in and start jumping into the, into the, into the pool, if you will, you know, as they start, >>I'm glad you asked this question because the subject of automation gets lumped in with a lot of topics with similar, you know, buzzwords of AI and machine learning and self-healing, and self-driving while these technologies like that make autonomous operations. In reality, we run the risk of having the underlying technology, dominate the discussion, and that's not where it needs to go in, in, in my discussions with customers, they don't care if the underlying technology is machine learning or deep learning, you know, it doesn't really matter. They want to see tangible out. So, and so when we talk about the kind of results to expect, there's some pretty simple questions to ask is, you know, that I, you know, I engage with any CIO or any company, a person in an it operations capacity is, is my, is my team spending, you know, how much time is my team spending on updates or the updates taking place within tighten up windows? >>Is my team getting the root cause of issues faster? Is my team closing out tickets faster is my business deploying more applications per week, per month, per year. These are the kinds of things that really matter. I mean, this is where the rubber meets the road on this, and, you know, the way we approach this is as we deliver more capabilities and features in this space of autonomy, we're constantly engaging our customers in a before and after state to understand if we really moved the needle. And so we, we, we do collect data on this front to see if we are delivering tangible results. And you know, what we've seen just in the past year is when we do this and do it right, we're seeing issue resolution times dropping like 50 to 90%. We're seeing time spent on admin tasks reduced by like 85%. We're seeing operations cost dropped by a third, you know, applications being pushed out, almost doubling. So these are, these are the real benefits, right? If you, if you can free up and pull the human component out of some of these, you know, necessary, but not necessarily, um, you know, value added tasks, uh, in your day to day operations, this is the kind of results customers can see. >>I want to ask you about your recent event hosted by mark Hamill, but about the framework you guys announced. But before that, I want to ask you, I got your here about supply chain. I mean, honestly, Dell made, made its bones in supply chain and innovation going back to the early days, Michael's book is awesome and he talks about being successful. Um, but you started to hear words like software supply chain is starting to hear words like the word supply chain is now becoming lingua franca in business, not just on moving goods here and there. Digital supply chains are emerging and it's impacting developers because they have to secure them. And there's also mindset of an operational mindset, our systems thinking, uh, with as well as design thinking, but mainly systems thinking. So this is not for the, you know, supply chain geeks out there. This is like hitting me. And she, this notion of supply chain doesn't promise operations hit to the core of this. >>Yeah. It, um, yes, it should, because ideally what you're doing is your autonomous operations strategy is contemplating the fact that that supply chain is going to be fluid. Like, you know, and, and so, you know, just think about the, the, the, you know, the, the, the underlying infrastructure and the choices that you have being, um, on, um, on bare metal on VM, based on container-based, there's different distributions within that. We then start to think about, you know, how I might orchestrate that then the different platforms that we have there around configuration management or application orchestration, um, you're right. That supply chain does become pretty complex. And so, um, us as a, as a provider to customers that are having to do with that software supply chain, um, you, what we need to be cognizant of is the fact that, you know, we can't dictate that always, we have to assume there's going to be changes in there. And so that certainly does influence our approach and trying to make that as, um, you know, friendly to a heterogeneous environment that we know is going to change going forward. Awesome. >>And we're going to see more of that kind of thinking and apply into the people skill, skill development, and also software automation to offload that. But okay. Back to the event you guys had mark Hamill, who's, I'm a huge fan of star wars. Uh, the kid I master, um, represents the old guard, you know, let's do it now, looking at the cloud. Um, you guys announced that that event, this autonomous operations framework, could you talk about what that is and why is it important? >>Yeah, so to begin with, you know, if you had told me when I was watching mark Hamill as a child in a movie theater, that he would one day help me do my job, I would have gone insane. But anyways, um, that, that aside that, that autonomous operations framework, it's built around six levels of automation. And we can talk, take the cue from the society of automotive engineers and work that they had done around autonomous cars, but we believed that we needed something distinct for, for it. And, you know, it starts off with level zero, which is no automation, look at your there's a human doing absolutely everything. And you progress up through five subsequent levels of operator assisted, partial automation, conditional automation, level five, being full autonomy. There's a set of expectations with each of these. And look as you progress up the level of involvement of humans in the decision, and the reaction is decreased each and every step, and some might say, well, so what all you did is document a framework. >>Well, it's important to both our customers and then our internal teams that have to deliver this. And let me just elaborate on that a little bit. Why it's important to customers is that automation implies trust. As, as, as you know, you as my infrastructure provider Dell, do I trust you to automate something that is typically involved my own team, assessing what it is the problem to be and determining the remediation action. Am I willing to hand over the keys to that to you? Uh, you have to earn that and you earn that by progressing up through these different levels. And, you know, if I can't trust you with, you know, conditional automation, I'm not going to trust you with full autonomy. So the customer is, you know, there's a, there's a psychology that's involved here that they have to progress through these levels. And so you have to be deliberate, I'd say as well, you need to recognize that not all customers are going to progress through that at the same pace. >>So it's important that when we think about how we're going to provide this, yeah, we want to have an option for the highest level of autonomy as possible, but that doesn't mean all customers are going to be ready. So we need to think about, you know, how do you provide the N minus one and minus two levels of capabilities. So we're meeting customers where they are in terms of their comfort and, and embracing this idea of autonomous. And then, you know, for us internally, that's the customer's perspective for us. Then this is a, a great set of guideposts for our teams to think about how we advance. And so when we have a feature, um, that, that we're deploying and making available, let's say it's sort of a workload contention feature, right? We then think about that about, okay, how do we start to advance up through the different levels here? We know workload contention is an important problem, but how do we start to take the human out of that equation in a methodical way to advance them through these levels? So we give a suite of options to our customers to do without that. >>True. Talk to me about your reaction with customers. Cause I know there's a spectrum of customers that are leaning in, some are putting the toe in the water, so to speak somewhat more information, some are just looking at the architecture of how they're going to scale post COVID and then have a growth strategy for their business, what feedback you're getting, where are, how would you put the customer's mindset? Um, and, and can you describe the makeup of the customer profile for >>Yeah. You know, I would say, um, you know, there, you know, when we were talking about these six levels, there, there were about halfway up in general. If you, if you ask me to kind of do the bell curve, right. And in terms of comfort level, and we'll, we'll call it like partial or conditional automation there where it's like, you know, in general, it's like, okay, we, we, we know we need to take some of the humans out of this, but why don't we start by, you know, you recommending what the remediation is. I'll take a look at it and decide if I want to implement it or recommend the remediation and give me a button I can click to, to, to act upon it. So there's still some level of human checks and balances in there, but we've taken a lot of the grunt work out of it, so to speak, um, to do it. >>But that's where they are. They, they certainly aspire to move up again, back to this resource crunch, competing for talent than I can't keep hiring people to keep up with the work here and what they want to do is work with us to, okay, so how do I evolve this to start to prove it then? And this is where we can kind of go back to some of these things of the machine learning and so forth, where it's up to us as we think about how we design the systems around this is how can we start to observe how customers are responding to our recommendations? Are they always taking on, are they modifying them so we can get smarter in terms of what it is we're going to suggest and what we're just we're going to automate so that we're doing it around their values, not necessarily ours, that's a really important component here. This value based approach that we need to embrace, because, you know, you know, what, what might be considered an acceptable set of circumstances for a financial services company? You know, it might not be for a manufacturing company. And so that's something that we need to take into account in the overall design. >>Yeah. And also to your point earlier about meeting them where they are, is super important. And I think what's interesting, I've been watching over the past five Dell technology worlds, um, the tradition transition of Dell becoming much stronger and, and, and cohesive in each element of the end to end mix if you will, of hybrid. Um, and that's been a big boost. Um, and so as customers go, okay, I still got to get better. So they get, they're taking this way. And some, some customers, you know what I need to do more, but you guys are running these companies with your technology. So it's not like as easy, it's not a clean sheet of paper. In some cases, it is when you have new projects, they go cloud native and they just ended, they deploy, uh, and they have an edge and all that good stuff. But in terms of making autonomous operations real in terms of your roadmap, as you guys evolve, um, how close are you to having that secret formula? Or do you have the secret formula now? What is it? >>Yeah, so the short answer is, you know, do we have the, the, the secret sauce that we do? And, but that doesn't mean we're done like, so, so back to the framework, like nobody in the industry is at full autonomy. So let's just be really honest. There it's a, it's an aspirational north star that we, we all have to make progress to, but you know, what that means is you can take something that has a level of autonomy today. And let's take something like workload contention analysis that I brought up earlier, where, you know, we can identify where we've got workloads competing for shared resources that need to be redistributed. You know, today we flagged that contention and let the customer determine remediation. So, Hey, we're, we're letting you know you've got a problem. Um, you know, they're going to determine that remediation based upon their first hand knowledge of the environment and applying the values that they have to determine the best path, but, you know, our task is then to gain insight on that and how our customers are choosing to remediate, translate those into rule-based decisions for an explicit outcome that kind of advances you up one step, moving beyond rules. >>You start to understand more generalized outcome sot. That's a conditional automation. And then you move beyond that to get to a service level based objective, which would be high autonomy. So you're there, but this, this framework clearly calls out like this is a journey like there's no, you never really get to the end, so to speak. And that's fine, right? That, that Nirvana of full autonomy, we all should aspire to it, but we are going to be very, very deliberate in terms of how we take things like this and advance them up through the framework to make it more real. And again, give customers choice as they're willing to progress up through that trust will be there with an option for them when they, when they want to stay back with where they are, because that's where their comfort is. We'll be able to meet them there. >>Yeah. And I think also that be fair to anyone who may look at this as, you know, kind of like maybe future every, every customer you have is different operationally. I mean, you have, again, you mentioned financial FinTech, they're huge. If financial services area versus say, you know, classic enterprise, I mean, it could be insurance or whatever, a lot of legacy, and now new technologies coming in, this is all part of the, the opportunity is to kind of bring that together. Um, and it's not going to switch. >>Yeah, it is. And I'll just, you know, the one last plug for why I feel great about doing this as Dell technologies is I think about the, the breadth of what we cover in that environment, you know, with the, the breadth of our portfolio and the level of insights that we can have by kind of contemplating all the impacts across that typology that we span. Um, it's super exciting in terms of kind of what we can really unlock here in terms of value from an end date >>Drew. It's great to chat with you. I have one quick, more important question. Most important question is, did you get a selfie with mark Hamill Come on in every star wars? I mean, I'm a huge star wars fan, of course, star wars, star Trek are all on the same tier. Yeah. >>Uh, no, sorry. I missed out. I was, I was virtual for that one. So, um, although I probably could have done a screenshot on zoom or something like that and claimed it. So, but the >>Well great to have you on the queue. Thanks for your insight. I think this is a great area. Autonomous operations are moving beyond the hide, was seeing evidence in it. You seeing us the on clean sheet of paper, Greenfield opportunities, and then as it comes into the white hot core enterprise, um, even more trust is needed. Even more reliability track record you guys doing great work. Thank you so much for sharing on the cube. Great. Thank you, John. Okay. This is the cube. I'm Sean for your host for this cube conversation. Thanks for watching.

>>Okay. Now we're going to dig into the data landscape and cloud of course. And talk a little bit more about that with drew Allen. He's a managing director at Accenture drew. Welcome. Great to see you. Thank you. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, you've been in this game for a number of years. Uh, you've got a particular expertise in, in, in data and finance and insurance. I mean, you think about it within the data and analytics world, even our language is changing. You know, we don't say talk about big data so much anymore. We, we talk more about digital, you know, or, or, or data-driven when you think about sort of where we've come from and where we're going, what are the puts and takes that you have with regard to what's going on in the business today? >>Well, thanks for having me. Um, you know, I think some of the trends we're seeing in terms of challenges and puts some takes are that a lot of companies are already on this digital transformation journey. Um, they focused on customer experience is kind of table stakes. Everyone wants to focus on that and kind of digitizing their channels. But a lot of them are seeing that, you know, a lot of them don't even own their, their channels necessarily. So like we're working with a big cruise line, right. And yes, they've invested in digitizing what they own, but a lot of the channels that they sell through, they don't even own, right. It's the travel agencies or third-party real sellers. So having the data to know where, you know, where those agencies are, that that's something that they've discovered. And so there's a lot of big focus on not just digitizing, but also really understanding your customers and going across products because a lot of the data has built, been built up in individual channels and in digital products. >>And so bringing that data together is something that customers that have really figured out in the last few years is a big differentiator. And what we're seeing too, is that a big trend that the data rich are getting richer. So companies that have really invested in data, um, are having, uh, an outside market share and outside earnings per share and outside revenue growth. And it's really being a big differentiator. And I think for companies just getting started in this, the thing to think about is one of the missteps is to not try to capture all the data at once. The average company has, you know, 10,000, 20,000 data elements individually, when you want to start out, you know, 500, 300 critical data elements, about 5% of the data of a company drives 90% of the business value. So focusing on, on those key critical data elements is really what you need to govern first and really invest in first. And so that's something we tell companies at the beginning of their data strategy is first focus on those critical data elements, really get a handle on governing that data, organizing that data and building data products around >>That data. You can't boil the ocean. Right. And so, and I, I feel like pre pandemic, there was a lot of complacency. Oh yeah, we'll get to that. You know, not on my watch, I'll be retired before that, you know, it becomes a minute. And then of course the pandemic was, I call it sometimes a forced March to digital. So in many respects, it wasn't planned. It just ha you know, you had to do it. And so now I feel like people are stepping back and saying, okay, let's now really rethink this and do it right. But is there, is there a sense of urgency, do you think? >>Absolutely. I think with COVID, you know, we were working with, um, a retailer where they had 12,000 stores across the U S and they had didn't have the insights where they could drill down and understand, you know, with the riots and with COVID was the store operational, you know, with the supply chain of they having multiple, uh, distributors, what did they have in stock? So there are millions of data points that you need to drill down, down at the cell level, at the store level to really understand how's my business performing. And we like to think about it for like a CEO and his leadership team of like, think of it as a digital cockpit, right? You think about a pilot, they have a cockpit with all these dials and, um, dashboards, essentially understanding the performance of their business. And they should be able to drill down and understand for each individual, you know, unit of their work, how are they performing? That's really what we want to see for businesses. Can they get down to that individual performance to really understand how their businesses and >>The ability to connect those dots and traverse those data points and not have to go in and come back out and go into a new system and come back out. And that's really been a lot of the frustration where does machine intelligence and AI fit in? Is that sort of a dot connector, if you will, and an enabler, I mean, we saw, you know, decades of the, the AI winter, and then, you know, there's been a lot of talk about it, but it feels like with the amount of data that we've collected over the last decade and the, the, the low costs of processing that data now, it feels like it's, it's real. Where do you see AI fitting in? Yeah, >>I mean, I think there's been a lot of innovation in the last 10 years with, um, the low cost of storage and computing and these algorithms in non-linear, um, you know, knowledge graphs, and, um, um, a whole bunch of opportunities in cloud where what I think the, the big opportunity is, you know, you can apply AI in areas where a human just couldn't have the scale to do that alone. So back to the example of a cruise lines, you know, you may have a ship being built that has 4,000 cabins on the single cruise line, and it's going to multiple deaths that destinations over its 30 year life cycle. Each one of those cabins is being priced individually for each individual destination. It's physically impossible for a human to calculate the dynamic pricing across all those destinations. You need a machine to actually do that pricing. And so really what a machine is leveraging is all that data to really calculate and assist the human, essentially with all these opportunities where you wouldn't have a human being able to scale up to that amount of data >>Alone. You know, it's interesting. One of the things we talked to Mick Halston about earlier was just the everybody's algorithms are out of whack. You know, you look at the airline pricing, you look at hotels it's as a consumer, you would be able to kind of game the system and predict a, they can't even predict these days. And I feel as though that the data and AI are actually going to bring us back into some kind of normalcy and predictability, uh, w what do you see in that regard? >>Yeah, I think it's, I mean, we're definitely not at a point where when I talk to, you know, the top AI engineers and data scientists, we're not at a point where we have what they call broad AI, right? Where you can get machines to solve general knowledge problems, where they can solve one problem, and then a distinctly different problem, right? That's still many years away, but narrow AI, there's still tons of use cases out there that can really drive tons of business performance challenges, tons of accuracy challenges. So, for example, in the insurance industry, commercial lines, where I work a lot of the time, the biggest leakage of loss experience and pricing for commercial insurers is, um, people will go in as an agent and they'll select an industry to say, you know what, I'm a restaurant business. Um, I'll select this industry code to quote out a policy, but there's, let's say, you know, 12 dozen permutations, you could be an outdoor restaurant. >>You could be a bar, you could be a caterer, and all of that leads to different loss experience. So what this does is they built a machine learning algorithm. We've helped them do this, that actually at the time that they're putting in their name and address, it's crawling across the web and predicting in real time, you know, is this address actually, you know, a business that's a restaurant with indoor dining, does it have a bar is an outdoor dining, and it's that that's able to accurately more price the policy and reduce the loss experience. So there's a lot of that you can do, even with narrow AI that can really drive top line of business results. >>Yeah. I like that term narrow AI because getting things done is important. Let's talk about cloud a little bit because people talk about cloud first public cloud first doesn't necessarily mean public cloud only, of course. So where do you see things like what's the right operating model, the right regime hybrid cloud. We talked earlier about hybrid data help us squint through the cloud landscape. Yeah. >>I mean, I think for most right, most fortune 500 companies, they can't just their fingers and say, let's move all of our data centers to the cloud. They've got to move, you know, gradually. And it's usually a journey that's taking more than two to three plus years, even more than that in some cases. So they're half they have to move their data, uh, incrementally to the cloud. And what that means is that, that they have to move to a hybrid perspective where some of their data is on premise and some of it is publicly on the cloud. And so that's the term hybrid cloud essentially. And so what they've had to think about is from an intelligence perspective, the privacy of that data, where is it being moved? Can they reduce the replication of that data? Because ultimately you like, uh, replicating the data from on-premise to, to the cloud that introduces, you know, errors and data quality issues. So thinking about how do you manage, uh, you know, uh, on-premise and public cloud as a transition is something that Accenture thinks, thinks, and helps our clients do quite a bit. And how do you move them in a manner that's well-organized and well thought about? >>Yeah. So I've been a big proponent of sort of line of business lines of business becoming much more involved in, in the data pipeline, if you will, the data process, if you think about our major operational systems, they all have sort of line of business context in them. Then the salespeople, they know the CRM data and, you know, logistics folks. There they're very much in tune with ERP. I almost feel like for the past decade, the lines of business have been somewhat removed from the, the data team, if you will. And that, that seems to be changing. What are you seeing in terms of the line of line of business being much more involved in sort of end to end ownership if you will, if I can use that term of, uh, of the data and sort of determining things like helping determine anyway, the data quality and things of that nature. Yeah. >>I mean, I think this is where thinking about your data operating model and thinking about ideas of a chief data officer and having data on the CEO agenda, that's really important to get the lines of business, to really think about data sharing and reuse, and really getting them to, you know, kind of unlock the data because they do think about their data as a fiefdom data has value, but you've got to really get organizations in their silos to open it up and bring that data together because that's where the value is. You know, data doesn't operate. When you think about a customer, they don't operate in their journey across the business in silo channels. They don't think about, you know, I use only the web and then I use the call center, right? They think about that as just one experience. And that data is a single journey. >>So we like to think about data as a product. You know, you should think about a data in the same way. You think about your products as, as products, you know, data as a product, you should have the idea of like every two weeks you have releases to it. You have an operational resiliency to it. So thinking about that, where you can have a very product mindset to delivering your data, I think is very important for the success. And that's where kind of, there's not just the things about critical data elements and having the right platform architecture, but there's a soft stuff as well, like a product mindset to data, having the right data, culture, and business adoption and having the right value set mindset for, for data, I think is really, >>I think data as a product is a very powerful concept. And I think it maybe is uncomfortable to some people sometimes. And I think in the early days of big data, if you will, people thought, okay, data is a product going to sell my data, and that's not necessarily what you mean. You mean thinking about products or data that can fuel products that you can then monetize maybe as a product or as a, as, as a service. And I like to think about a new metric in the industry, which is how long does it take me to get from idea of I'm a business person. I have an idea for a data product. How long does it take me to get from idea to monetization? And that's going to be something that ultimately as a business person, I'm going to use to determine the success of my data team and my, my data architecture is, is that kind of thinking starting to really hit the marketplace. >>I mean, I insurers now are working, partnering with, you know, auto manufacturers to monetize, um, driver usage data, you know, on telematics to see, you know, driver behavior on how, you know, how auto manufacturers are using that data. That's very important to insurers, you know, so how an auto manufacturer can monetize that data is very important and also an insurance, you know, cyber insurance, um, are there news new ways we can look at how companies are being attacked with viruses and malware, and is there a way we can somehow monetize that information? So companies that are able to agily, you know, think about how can we, you know, collect this data, bring it together, think about it as a product, and then potentially, you know, sell it as a service is something that, um, company, successful companies are doing >>Great examples of data products, and it might be revenue generating, or it might be in the case of, you know, cyber, maybe it reduces my expected loss. Exactly. And it drops right to my bottom line. What's the relationship between Accenture and cloud era? Do you, I presume you guys meet at the customer, but maybe you could give us some insight as to yeah. So, >>Um, I I'm in the executive sponsor for, um, the Accenture cloud era partnership on the Accenture side. Uh, we do quite a lot of business together and, um, you know, Cloudera has been a great partner for us. Um, and they've got a great product in terms of the Cloudera data platform where, you know, what we do is as a big systems integrator for them, we help, um, you know, configure and we have a number of engineers across the world that come in and help in terms of, um, engineer architects and install, uh, cloud errors, data platform, and think about what are some of those, you know, value cases where you can really think about organizing data and bringing it together for all these different types of use cases. And really just as the examples we thought about. So the telematics, you know, um, in order to realize something like that, you're bringing in petabytes and huge scales of data that, you know, you just couldn't bring on a normal, uh, platform. You need to think about cloud. You need to think about speed of, of data and real-time insights and cloud errors, the right data platform for that. So, um, >>That'd be Cloudera ushered in the modern big data era. We, we kind of all know that, and it was, which of course early on, it was very services intensive. You guys were right there helping people think through there weren't enough data scientists. We've sort of all, all been through that. And of course in your wheelhouse industries, you know, financial services and insurance, they were some of the early adopters, weren't they? Yeah, >>Absolutely. Um, so, you know, an insurance, you've got huge amounts of data with loss history and, um, a lot with IOT. So in insurance, there's a whole thing of like sensorized thing in, uh, you know, taking the physical world and digitizing it. So, um, there's a big thing in insurance where, um, it's not just about, um, pricing out the risk of a loss experience, but actual reducing the loss before it even happens. So it's called risk control or loss control, you know, can we actually put sensors on oil pipelines or on elevators and, you know, reduce, um, you know, accidents before they happen. So we're, you know, working with an insurer to actually, um, listen to elevators as they move up and down and are there signals in just listening to the audio of an elevator over time that says, you know what, this elevator is going to need maintenance, you know, before a critical accident could happen. So there's huge applications, not just in structured data, but in unstructured data like voice and audio and video where a partner like Cloudera has a huge role apply. >>Great example of it. So again, narrow sort of use case for machine intelligence, but, but real value. True. We'll leave it like that. Thanks so much for taking some time. Thank you.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Hi I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, we're here for a special CUBE Conversation. Obviously we're remote, we're in the studio most of the time but on the weekends I get an opportunity to talk to friends and experts. And here I wanted to really dig in with an awesome case study around AWS Cloud in a use case that I think is game changing for local communities, especially in this time of COVID. You have local communities where local journalism is suffering, but also connectedness. And connected experience is what's going to make the difference as we come out of this pandemic as a societal impact. But there's a real tech story here I want to dig into. We're here with Dan Drew who is the vice president of engineering for Clinical Didja, they make an app called Local BTV which basically takes over the air television and streams it to an app in your local area, enabling access to linear TV and on demand as well for local communities. It's a phenomenal project and it's unique. Somewhat misunderstood right now, but I think it's going to be something that's going to be very important. Dan, thank you for coming on and chatting with me. >> Thanks for having me, appreciate it. >> Okay so I'm a big fan, I've been using the app in San Francisco. I know New York's on the docket, it might even be deployed. You guys have a unique infrastructure capability that's powering this new app location, and this is the focus of this conversation in this CUBE Talk. Amazon is a big part of this. Talk about your local BTV that you are protecting, this platform for broadcast television, it has a unique hybrid cloud architecture. Can you tell us about that? >> Yeah certainly, I mean, one of our challenges, as you know, is that we are local television. So unlike a lot of products on the market, you know like your Hulus or other VMPV products, which primarily service sort of national feeds and things like that. We have to be able to receive over-the-air signals in each market. Many channels that serve local content are still over the air. And that is why you don't see a lot of them on those types of services. They tend to get ignored and unavailable to many users. So that's part of our value proposition is to not only allow more people to get access to these stations, but allow the stations themselves to reach more people. So that means that we have to have a local presence in each market in order to receive those signals. So that sort of forces us to have this hybrid model where we have local data centers, but then we also want to be able to effectively manage those in a central way, and we do that in our cloud platform which is hosted on Amazon and using Amazon services. >> All right let me take a breath here. You have a hybrid architecture on Amazon so since you're using a lot of the plumbing, take us through what the architecture of this ram is on using a variety of their services. Can you unpack that? >> Yeah, so obviously it starts with some of the core services like EC2, S3, RDS, which everybody on the planet uses. We're also very focused on using ECS; we're completely containerized which allows us to more effectively deploy our services and scale them. And one of the benefits on that front that Amazon provides is that because their container service is wired into all the other services like cloudwatch metrics, auto-scaling policies, IM policies, things like that. It means it allows us to manage those things in a much more effective way, and use those services to much more effectively make those things reliable and scalable. We also use a lot of their technologies, for example, for collecting metrics. So we use Kinesis and Redshift to collect realtime metrics from all of our markets across the U.S. That allows us to do that reliably and at scale without having to manage complex ETL systems like Kafka and other things. As well as store it in a large data lake like Redshift and Corid for analytics and things like that. We also use technologies like Media Tailor, so for example, one of the big features that most stations do not have access to is realtime targeted advertising. In the broadcast space, many ads are sold and placed weeks in advance, and not personalized obviously for that reason. Whereas one of the big features we can bring to the table using our system and technologies like Media Tailor is we can provide realtime targeted advertising which is a huge win for these stations. >> What are some of the unique capabilities that you guys can offer broadcast station partners 'cause you're basically going in and partnering with broadcast stations as well. But also you're enabling new broadcasters to jump in as well. What are some of the unique capabilities that you're delivering, what is Amazon bringing to the table there and what are you doing that's unique? >> Well again, it allows us, because we can do things centrally as well as the local reception, it allows us to do some interesting things like if we have channels that are allowed to broadcast even outside their market, then we can easily put them in other markets and get them even more viewers that way. We have the ability to even do hyper local or community channels that are not necessarily broadcasting all of the standard antennas, but can get us a feed from whatever zip code in whatever market, and we can give them a way to reach viewers in the entire market, in other markets, or even just in their local area. So consider the case where maybe a high school or a college wants to show games or local content, we provide a platform where they can now do that, and reach more people using our app and our platform very very easily. So that's another area that we want to help expand is not just your typical view of local of what's available in Phoenix, but what's available in a particular city in that area or a local community where they want to reach their community more effectively or even have content that might be interesting to other communities in Phoenix or one of the other markets. >> Now I think, just going on a side tangent here, I talked with your partner, Jim Long, who's the CEO, you guys have an amazing business opportunity. Again, I think it's kind of misunderstood, but it's very clear to me that someone who follows and has huge passion about local journalism, you know you see awesome efforts out there like Charlie Sennott from the Ground Truth Project Report for America, they take a journalism kind of print view, but if you add that Didja business model onto this local journalism, you can enable more video locally. I mean, that's really the killer app, video. And now COVID more than ever, I really want to know things like there's a mural in downtown Palo Alto, Black lives matter, I want to know what's going on with the local summer restaurants, putting people out on the sidewalks. Right now I'm limited to like next door or very laggy media, whether it's the website, so again, I think this is an opportunity for that, plus education. I mean, Amazon educate for instance, you can get a degree on computing by sitting on the couch. So again, this is a paradigm shift from an application standpoint that you're providing essentially linear TV to that. >> Exactly. >> In the local economy. So I just want to give you a shout-out for that because I think it's super important. I think people should get behind this, so congratulations. Okay I'm off on my little rant there. Let's get back down to some of that cloud stuff 'cause I think what's super interesting to me is you guys can stand up infrastructure very quickly, and what you've done here, you've leveraged the benefits of Amazon and the goodness of cloud, you essentially can stand up a metro region pretty quickly and pretty impressive. So I got to ask you, what Amazon services are most important for your business? >> Well like I said, I think for us, it's managing the central services so we sort of talked about managing the software, the APIs, and those are kind of the glue, so for us standing up a new metro is obviously getting the data center contracts and all the other messy stuff you have to deal with, just to have a footprint. But essentially once we have that in place, we can spin up the software in the data center and have it hooked into our central service within hours. And we can be starting channels literally within half a day. So that's the real win for us is having all that central glue and that central management system and the scalability where we can just add another 10, 20, 50, 100 markets and the system is set up to scale centrally where we can start collecting metrics through Cloud watch from those data centers, we're collecting logs and diagnostic information so we can detect health and everything else centrally and monitor and operate all of these things centrally in a way that is sane and not crazy. We don't need a 24/7 knock of a thousand people to do this, you know, and do that in a way that we, as a relatively small company, can still scale and do that in a sensible way, and a cost-effective way, which is obviously very important for us at our size, but at any size, you want to make sure if you're going to go into 200 plus markets that you have a really good cost model and that's one of the things where Amazon has really really helped us is allow us to do some really complex things, and in an efficient, scalable, reliable, and cost-effective way. The cost for us to go into a new metro now is so small relatively speaking that that's really what allows us to do as a business and now we just opened up New York and we're going to keep expanding on that model so that's been a huge win for us is evaluating what Amazon can bring to the table versus other third parties or building our own obviously-- >> So Amazon gives you the knock basically leverage and scale. The data center you're referring to, that's pretty much just to get an origination point in the territory. >> Dan: Exactly, that's right. >> So it's not like it's a super complex data center. You can just go in, making sure that they got all the normal path to recovery and the normal stuff, it's not like a heavy duty buildup. Can you explain that? >> Yeah, so one thing we do do in our data centers is because we are local, we have sort of primary data centers where we do do transcoding and origination of the video so we receive the video locally and then we want to transcode and deliver it locally and that way we're not sending video across the country and back type of thing. So that is sort of the hybrid part of our model. So we stand that up, but then that is all managed by the central service. So we essentially have another container cluster using Kubernetes in this case. But that Kubernetes cluster is essentially told what to do by everything that's running in Amazon. So we essentially stand up the Kubernetes cluster, we wire it up to the central service, and then from then on, we just go into the central service and say stand up these channels and it all pops up. >> Well my final question on the Amazon piece is really about the future capability besides having a CUBE channel which we'd love to have on there, I told my guys we'll get there. But we're just too busy working around the clock as you guys are with COVID-19. (overlapping chatter) I could almost see a slew of new services coming out, just on the Amazon side. If I'm on the Amazon side I'm thinking, okay I'll post this as an opportunity for me. I can see sage making and machine learning coming in and adding value for the user experience. And also enabling their own stuff. They've got a ton of stuff with Prime and moving people around and delivering things. I mean the headroom for Amazon in this thing is off the charts. But that being said, that's Amazon, I could see them winning with this. I know certainly I know you're using Elemental as well, but for you guys on the consumer side, what features and what new things do you see on the roadmap or what you might envision the future looking like? >> Well, I think part of it I think there's two parts. One of it is what are we going to deliver ourselves so we talked about adding community content and continuing to evolve the local BTV product. But we also see ourselves primarily as a local TV platform. For example, you mentioned Prime and a lot of people are now realizing, especially with COVID and what's going on, the importance of local television and so we're in discussions on a lot of fronts with people to see how we can be the provider of that local TV content. And that's really a lot of stations are super excited about that too 'cause you know, again, looking to expand their own footprint and their own reach, we're basically the way that we can join those two things together between the stations, the other video platforms, and distribution mechanisms, and the viewers obviously at the end of the day, we want to make sure local viewers can get more local content and stuff that's interesting to them. Like you said with the news, it is not uncommon that you may have your Bay area stations but the news is still maybe very focused on LA or San Francisco or whatever. And so being able to enable the smaller regional outlets to reach people in that area in a more local fashion is definitely a big way that we can facilitate that from the platform and viewer perspective. So we're hoping to do that in any way we can. Our main focus is make local great and get the broadcast world out there and that's not going anywhere especially with things like HSE3 on the front, and we just want to make sure those people are successful and enrich people and make revenue. >> Yeah, you got a lot of (mumbles) but I think one of the things that's interesting about your project that I find is a classic case of people who focus in on just current market value investing, versus kind of the game-changing shifts is that you guys are horizontally enabling in the sense that there's so many different use cases I was pointing out from my perspective, journalism, and I look at that and I'm like, okay that's a huge opportunity just there, changing the game on societal impact on journalism, huge education opportunity for court cutters. You're talking about a whole nother thing around TV so I got to ask ya, pretend I'm an idiot for a minute. Pretend, let's make it, I am an idiot. I don't understand, isn't this just TV? What are you doing different because it's only local. I can't watch San Francisco if I'm in Chicago and I can't watch Chicago if I'm in San Francisco, I get that. But why is this important? Isn't this just TV? Can't I just get it on YouTube, TikTok, what is this? >> Yes and no. There's TV and then there's TV as you know. If you look at the TV landscape, it's pretty fractured but typically when you're talking about YouTube or Hulu, you're talking about sort of cable TV channels. You know, you're going to get your A&E, you're going to get some of your local through ABC and whatnot, but you're not really getting local content. So for example, in our Los Angeles market, there are about 100 and something over-the-air channels. If you look at the cross section of which of those channels you can get on your other big name products like your Hulus or your YouTube TV, you're talking about maybe half a dozen or a dozen. So we're talking about 90 plus channels that are local to LA that you can only get through an antenna. And those are hitting the type of demographics that, quite frankly, some of these other players just don't see as important. >> Under different minorities or immigrants, the each entrepreneurs of our country. >> Yes exactly, so we might see a lot of Korean channels or Spanish channels or other minority channels that you just won't get over your cable channels or your typical online video providers. So that's, again, why we feel like we've got something that is really unique and that is really under-served as far as on a television standpoint. The other side that we bring to the table is that a lot of these broadcast channels are under served themselves in terms of technology. If you look at ad insertion and a lot of the technical discussions about how to do live TV and how to get live TV out there, it's very focused on the OTT market, so again, going back to the Hulus and the YouTubes. >> OTT, over-the-top you mean. >> Over the top, yeah. And so this broadcast market basically had no real evolution on that front in a while and I sort of mentioned the way ad buying works. It's still sort of the traditional ad buying that happens a couple weeks in front, not a lot of targeted or anything ability. And even when we get to HSE3, you're now relying on having an HES3 TV and you're still tied to an antenna, etc, etc, which is, again, a good move forward, but still not covering the spectrum of what these guys really want to reach and do. So that's where we kind of fill in the gaps using technology and filling in the gap of receiving a signal and bringing these technologies to not only the ad insertion and the stuff we can do for the livestream, but providing analytics and other tools to the stations that they really don't have right now unless you're willing to shell out a lot of money for Nielsen, which a lot of local small stations don't do. So we can provide a lot of analytics on viewership and targeting and things like that that they're really looking forward to and really excited about. >> All right, I got to ask you, put you on the spot here, 'cause I always see Andy Jassy at (mumbles) hopefully I'll see him this year if they do an in-person event. He's really dynamic and you should send him an email; he tends to read his emails a lot, and if you're a customer and I know you are, but I've got to ask you, if you bumped into Andy Jassy on the elevator and he's like, hey why should I pay attention to Didja? Why is it important for Amazon and why is it important for the world? How does it raise the bar on society? >> Well I think part of what Amazon's goal, especially if you get into their work in public sector and education, that's really where we see we're focusing with the community and local television and enabling new types of local television. So I think there's a lot of advantage and I hate the word synergy, but I'm going to use the word synergy. As far as our goals in those areas around really helping, one of the terms flying around now is the double bottom line where it's not just about revenue, it's about how do we help people in communities be better as well? So there's a bottom line in terms of people, benefit, and revenue in that way, not just financial revenue. And that's very important to us as a business as well is that's why we're focused on local TV and we're not just doing another Fubo where it's really easy to get an IP national fee. It's really important to us to enable the local community and the local broadcasters and the local channels and the local viewers to get the content that they're missing out on right now. So I think there's a, I hate it but I'm going to use it, synergy on that front as far as-- >> Synergy and the new normal. >> Synergy and the new normal? I think COVID and some of the other things that have been happening in the news with the Black Lives Matter and a lot of the things going around where local and community has been in the spotlight and getting the word out and having really local things versus I'm just seeing this thing from three counties away which I don't really care about and it's not telling me what's happening down the street like you said. And that's really what we want to help improve and support. >> Yeah it's a great mission, and it's one we care a lot about theCUBE. We've seen the data: content drives community engagement, and community's where the truth is. So in an era when we need more transparency and more truth, you get more cameras on the street, you're going to start to see things. That's what we're seeing a lot of things. And as more data's exposed, as you turn the lights on, so to speak, that kind of data will only help communities grow, heal, and thrive. So to me, big believer in what you guys are doing. Local BTV has a great mission. I wish you guys well and thanks for explaining the infrastructure on Amazon. I think you guys have a really killer use case technically. I mean to me, I think the technical superiority of what you've done give ability to stand up to these kinds of network with massive number of potential reach out of the gate, that's pretty impressive, congratulations. >> Great, thank you very much and thanks for taking the time. (upbeat music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Hi, I'm John Furrier with the Cube. We're here for a special cube conversation about seeing with remote where Studio most of the time. But on the weekends we get an opportunity to talk to friends and experts, and he I wanted to really dig in with an awesome case study around AWS Cloud in a use case that I think is game changing for local community, especially this time of Cove. It you have local community work, local journalism suffering, but also connectedness and connected experiences was going to make. The difference is we come out of this pandemic a societal impact. But there's a real tech story here I want to dig into. We're here with Dan. True is the vice president of engineering for chemical Didja. They make an app called local Be TV, which basically takes over the air television and stream it to an app in your local area, enabling access to linear TV and on demand as well. For local communities. It's a phenomenal project, and it's unique, somewhat misunderstood right now, but I think it's going to be something that's going to really put Dan, thank you for coming on and chatting with >>Thanks for having me appreciate it. >>Okay, so I'm a big fan. I've been using the APP in San Francisco. I know New York's on the docket might be deployed. You guys have a unique infrastructure capability that's powering this new application, and this is the focus of the conversations. Q. Talk Amazon is a big part of this talk about your local BTV that you architect with this platform for broadcast television as a unique hybrid cloud architecture. Can you tell us about that? >>Certainly. I mean, one of our challenges, as you know, is that we are local television eso. Unlike a lot of products on the markets, you know, like your Hulu's or other VM PV products, which primarily service sort of national feeds and things like that, we have to be able to receive, um, over the air signals in each market. Um, many channels that serve local content are still over the air, and that is why you don't see a lot of them on those types of services. They tend to get ignored and available to many users. So that's part of our value. Proposition is to not only allow more people to get access to these stations, but, uh, allow the stations themselves to reach more people. So that means that we have to have a local presence in each market in order to receive those signals. Uh, so that's sort of forces us to have this hybrid model where we have local data centers. But then we also want to be able to effectively manage those in a central way. Uh, and we do that in our cloud platform, which is hosted on Amazon and using Amazon services. >>Let me take take a breath. Here. You have a hybrid architecture on Amazon so that you're using a lot of the plumbing, take us through what the architecture is. RAM is on using a variety of their services. Can you unpack that? >>Yeah. So, um, obviously it starts with some of the core services, like easy to s three RDS, which everybody on planet uses. Um, we're also very focused on using e CS. We're completely containerized, which allows us to more effectively deploy our services and scale them. Um, and one of the benefits on that front that Amazon provides is that because they're container services wired into all the other services, like cloud watch metrics, auto scaling policies, I am policies, things like that. It means it allows us to manage those things in a much more effective way. Um, and use those services too much more effectively make those things reliable and scalable. Um, we also use a lot of their technologies, for example, for collecting metrics. So we use kinesis and red shift to collect real time metrics from all of our markets across the US that allows us to do that reliably and at scale without having to manage complex detail systems like Kafka and other things. Um, as well, it's stored in a large data lake like red shift in Korea for analytics. And you know, things like that. Um, we also use, um, technologies like media Taylor s. So, for example, one of the big features that most stations do not have access to Israel. Time targeted advertising in the broadcast space. Many ads are sold and placed weeks in advance. Um, and not personalized, obviously. You know, for that reason, where is one of the big features we can bring to the table using our system and technologies like Media Taylor is we can provide real time targeted advertising, which is a huge win for these stations. >>What are some of the unique capabilities that you guys offer? Broadcast station partners? Because you're basically going in and partnering with broadcast ages as well. But also you're enabling new broadcasters to jump in, and it's well, what are some of the unique capabilities that you're delivering? What is Amazon brings to the table there. What are you doing that >>well again, it allows us because we can do things centrally. You know as well as the local reception. It allows us to do some interesting things. Like if we have channels that, um, are allowed to broadcast even outside their market, Um, then we could easily put them in other markets and get them even more of years. That way we have the ability to even do, like hyper local or community channels, you know that are not necessarily broadcasting over the standard antennas, um, but can get us a feed from, you know, whatever zip code and whatever market and we can give them a way to reach viewers in the entire market and other markets, or even just in their local area. So, you know, consider the case where maybe a high school or college you know, wants to show games or local content. Um, we provide a platform where they can now do that and reach more people, Um, using our app in our platform very, very easily. So that's another area that we want help Expand is not just your typical view of local of what's available in Phoenix, Um, but what's available in a particular city in that area or a local community where they want to reach their community more effectively or even have content that might be interesting to other communities in Phoenix or one of the other markets. >>You know, I think just is not going to side tangent here. I talked with your partner, Jim Long, who's the CEO? You guys have an amazing business opportunity again. I think it's kind of misunderstood, but it's very clear to me that follows in. It has huge passion of local journalism. You see awesome efforts out there by Charlie Senate from the Ground Truth Project report for America. They take a journalism kind of friend view. But if you add like that digital business model onto this local journalism, you can enable more video locally. I mean, that's really the killer app of video. And now it Koven. More than ever. I really want to know things like this. A mural downtown Palo Alto. Black lives, matters. I want to know what's going on. Local summer restaurants, putting people out of sidewalks. Right now I'm limited to, like, next door or very Laghi media, whether it's the website. So again, I think this is an opportunity to that plus education. I mean, Amazon education, for instance. You can get a degree cloud computing by sitting on the couch. So you know, this is again. This is a paradigm shift from an application standpoint, but you're providing essentially linear TV to app because in the local economy, So I just want to give you a shout out for that because I think it's super important. I think you know, people should get behind this, so congratulations, Okay, I'm often my little rant there. Let's get back down to some of that cloud stuff. So I think it's super interesting to me is you guys can stand up infrastructure very quickly. And what you've done here, you can leverage the benefits of Amazon. Goodness of cloud. You essentially can stand up a metro region pretty quickly. Try it. And it pretty impressive. So I gotta ask you what? Amazon services are most important for your business. >>Um, well, like I said, I think for us it's matching the central services. So we sort of talked about, uh, managing the software, the ap eyes, Um, and those are kind of the glue. So, you know, for us standing up a new metro is obviously, you know, getting the data center contracts and all the other you know, >>and >>ask yourself, you have to deal with just have a footprint. But essentially, once we have that in place, we can spin up the software in the data center and have it hooked into our central service within hours. Right? And we could be starting channels literally, literally within half a day. Um, so that's the really win for us is, um, having all that central blue and that central management system and the scalability where, you know, we can just add another 10 20 5100 markets. And the system is set up to scale centrally, um, where we can start collecting metrics the cloudwatch from those data centers. We're collecting logs and diagnostic information s so we can detect health and everything else centrally and monitor and operate all of these things centrally in a way that is saying and not crazy. We don't need a 24 7 knock of 1000 people to do this. Um, you know, and do that in a way that, you know, we as a relatively small company can still scale and do that in a sensible way in a cost effective way, which is obviously very important for us at our size. But at any size, um, you want to make sure if you're gonna go into 200 plus markets, that you have a really good cost model. Um and that's one of the things that where Amazon has really really helped us is allow us to do some really complex things in an efficient, scalable, reliable and cost effective way. You know, the cost for us to go into the new metro now is so small, you know, relatively speaking, but that's really allows. What allows us to do is the business of now. We just opened up New York, you know, and we're going to keep expanding on that model. So that's been a huge win for us. Is evaluating what Amazon can bring to the table versus other third parties, and we're building our own, you know, obviously which >>So Amazon gives you the knock, basically leverage and scale the data center you're referring to. That's pretty much just to get an origination point in the Derek. Exactly. That's right. So it's not like it's a super complex data center. You can just go in making sure they got all the normal backup recovery in the normal stuff. It's not like a heavy duty build up. Can you explain that? >>Yeah. So one thing we do do in our data centers is because we are local. Um, we have sort of primary data centers where we do do trans coding and origination of the video. So we receive the video locally, and then we want to transport and deliver it locally. And that way we're not sending video across the country and back try to things so that That is sort of the hybrid part of our model. Right? So we stand that up, but then that is all managed by the central service. Right? So we essentially have another container cluster using kubernetes in this case. But that kubernetes cluster is essentially told what to do by everything that's running in Amazon. So we essentially stand up the kubernetes cluster, we wire it up to the Central Service, and then from then on, it just we just go into the Central Service and say, Stand up these channels. Um and it all pops up >>with my final question on the Amazon piece is really about future capabilities Besides having a Cube channel, which I would love to have gone there. And I told my guys, We'll get there, but it's just too busy working around the clock is You guys are with Kobe tonight? Yeah, sand. I can almost see a slew of new services coming out just on the Amazon site. If I'm on the Amazon site, I'm thinking, okay, Outpost is the opportunity for me. I got stage maker machine learning coming in and value for user experience and also, you know, enabling their own stuff. They've got a ton of stuff with prime moving people around and delivering the head room for Amazon. This thing is off the charts. But that being said, that's Amazon could see them winning with this and certainly, you know, using elemental as well. But for you guys on the consumer side, what features and what new things do you see on the road map or what? You might envision the future looking like, >>Well, I think part of it. I think there's two parts. One is what are we gonna deliver ourselves, you know. So we talked about adding community content and continuing to evolve the local beauty product. Um, but we also see ourselves primarily as a local TV platform. Um, and you know, for example, you mentioned prime. And a lot of people are now realizing, especially with Cove, it and what's going on the importance of local television. Uh, and so we're in discussions on a lot of fronts with people to see how how we can be the provider of that local TV content. You know, um and that's really a lot of stationed. Are super excited about that, too, because, you know, again looking to expand their own footprint and their own reach. You know, we're basically the way that we can join those two things together between the stations, the other video platforms and distribution mechanisms and the viewers. Obviously, at the end of the day, um, you know, we want to make sure local viewers can get more local content and stuff that's interesting to them. You know, Like you said with the news, it is not uncommon that you may have your Bay Area stations, but the news is still may be very focused on L. A or San Francisco or whatever, Um and so being able to enable, uh, you know, the smaller regional outlets to reach people in that area in a more local fashion. It is definitely a big way that we can facilitate that from the platform. And you were perspective. So we're hoping to do that in any way we can. You know, our main focus is make local great, you know, get the broadcast world out there, and that's not going anywhere, especially with things like HSC tree. Uh, you know, on that front, um, and you know, we just want to make sure that those people are successful, um, and can reach people and revenue and, you know, >>you got a lot of uncertainty, But I think one of the things that's just think about your project that I find is a classic case of people who focus in on that just the current market value, investing versus kind of game changing shifts is that you guys are horizontally enabling in the sense that there's so many different use cases. I was pointing out from my perspective, journalism. I'm like, I look at that and I'm like, Okay, that's a huge opportunity. Just they're changing the game on Societal impact on journalism, Huge education, opportunity for cord cutters. You're talking about a whole nother thing around TV. So I gotta ask you, you know, pretend I'm an idiot for a minute. Why are pretending that this person from this making I am entity after I don't understand it? Isn't this just TV? What are you doing Different? Because it's only local. I can't watch San Francisco. I'm in Chicago and I can't watch Chicago. I'm in San Francisco. I get that. You know why? Why is this important? Isn't this just TV can I just get on YouTube? I mean, tech talk. Well, talk about the yes >>or no. I mean, there's a TV, and then there's TV, You know, as you know, um and, you know, if you look at the TV landscape just pretty fracture. But typically, when you're talking about YouTube or who you're talking about, sort of cable TV channels, you know you're going to get your Andy, you're gonna get some of your local to ABC and what not? Um, but you're not really getting local contact. And So, for example, in our Los Angeles market, um, we there are There are about 100 something over the air channels. If you look at the cross section of which of those channels you can get on your other big name products like you lose your YouTube TV, you're talking about maybe half a dozen or a dozen, right? So there's like 90 plus channels that are local to L. A. That you can only get through an antenna, right? And those were hitting the type of demographics. You know, quite frankly, some of these other players or just, you know, don't see is important >>under other minorities exact with immigrants. You know, the entrepreneurs of our country? Yes, >>exactly. You know, So, you know, we see a lot of Korean channels or Spanish channels or other. You know, um, minority channels that you just won't get over your cable channels or your typical online video providers. So that's again Why, You know, we feel like we've got something that is really unique. Um, and that is really underserved, you know, as far as on a television sampling, Um, the other side that we bring to the table is that a lot of these broadcast channels, our underserved themselves in terms of technology, Right, if you look at, you know, ad insertion, um and you know a lot of the technical discussions about how to do live TV and how to get live TV out there. It's very focused on the OT market. So again, going back to who lose, and >>then you take a little over the top with the >>over the top. Yeah. Um and so this broadcast market basically had no real evolution on that front in a while. You know, I sort of mentioned like the way ad buying works, you know, it's still sort of the traditional and buying that happens a couple weeks in front, Not a lot of targeted or anything ability. Um, And even when we get to the HSC three, we're now relying on having an h A street TV and you're still tied to an antenna, etcetera, etcetera, which is again, a good move forward, but still not covering the spectrum of what these guys really want to reach and do. So that's where we kind of fill in the gaps, you know, using technology and filling in the gap of receiving a signal and bringing these technologies. So not only the ad insertion and stuff we can do for the live stream, Um, but providing analytics and other tools to the stations, uh, that they really don't have right now, unless you're willing to shell out a lot of money for Neilson, which a lot of local small stations don't do. Uh, so we can provide a lot of analytics on viewership and targeting and things like that that really looking forward to and really excited >>about. I gotta ask you put you on the spot here because I don't see Andy Jassy at reinvent might Hopefully I'll see in this year. They do a person event. He's really dynamic. And you just said, I mean, I think he tends to read his emails a lot. And if you're a customer and you are. But if you bumped into Andy Jassy on the elevators like okay, why should I pay attention to digital? What's why is it important for Amazon? And why is it important for the world? How do you raise the bar on society? >>Well, I think part of what Amazon's goal. And you know, especially if you get into, you know, their work in public sector on education. Um, you know, that's really where we see we're focusing with the community on local television and enabling new types of local television. So I think there's a lot of advantage, and, um, I hate the word synergy, but I'm gonna use the word synergies, you know, um, this for us, You know, our goals in those areas around really helping, you know, uh, you know, one of the terms flying around now is the double bottom line where it's not just about revenue. It's about how do we help people in communities be better as well. Um, so there's a bottom line in terms of uh huh. People benefit and revenue in that way, not just financial revenue. Right. And you know, that's very important to us as a business as well is, you know, that's why we're focused on local TV. And we're not just doing another food. Go where it's really easy to get a nightie national feed. You know, it's really important to us to enable the local community and the local broadcasters and local channels and the local viewers to get the content, um that they're missing out on right now. Um, so I think there's a your energy on that front. Um, as >>far synergy and the new normal to have energy in the new normal. You know, I think I think >>of it. And, you know, um, and some of the other things that have been happening in the news of the black lives matter And, um, you know, a lot of things going around where you know, local and community has been in the spotlight, right? And getting the word out and having really local things versus hundreds. Seeing this thing from you know, three counties away which I don't really care about. It's not telling me what's happening down the street, like you said, Um, and that's really what we want to help improve and support. >>Yeah, no, it's a great mission is one. We care a lot about the Cube. We've seen the data content drives, community engagement and communities where the truth is so in an era where we need more transparency and more truth, you get more cameras on the street, you're going to start to see things, and that's what we're seeing. A lot of things. And as more data is exposed as you turn the lights on, so this week that kind of data will only help communities grow, heal and thrive. So to me, a big believer in what you guys are doing local BTV is a great mission. I wish you guys well, and thanks for explaining the infrastructure on Amazon. I think you guys have a really killer use case. Technically, I mean to me, I think the technical superiority, what you've done, the ability to stand up these kinds of networks with massive number potential reach out of the gate. It's just pretty impressive. Congratulations, >>right? Thank you very much. And thanks for taking the time. >>Okay. Dan Drew, vice president of Jennifer. Did you start up That a lot of potential will. See. Let's go check out the comments on YouTube while we're here. Since we got you, let's see what's going on in the YouTube front year. Yeah, The one question was from someone asked me Was from TV serious that Dan, Great to see you. Thanks for taking the time on Sunday and testing out this new zoom home recording my home studio. But you got to get cleaned up. Thanks for taking the time Problem. Okay, Take care. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from the Keep studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Hi, I'm John Furry with the Cube. We're here for a special Q conversation, housing with remote, where in studio most of the time. But on the weekends, I get an opportunity to talk to friends and experts, and he I wanted to really dig in with an awesome case study around AWS Cloud in a use case that I think is game changing for local community, especially this time of Cove. It you have local community work, local journalism suffering, but also connected this and connected experiences was gonna make. The difference is we come out of this pandemic a societal impact. But there's a real tech story here I want to dig into. We're here with Dan. True is the vice president of engineering for Chemical. Did you? They make a nap coat local be TV, which basically takes over the air television and streams it to an app in your local area, enabling access to many your TV and on demand as well. For local communities, it's a phenomenal project and its unique, somewhat misunderstood right now, but I think it's gonna be something that's going to really put Dan, thank you for coming along and chatting. Thanks >>for having me appreciate it. >>Okay, so I'm a big fan. I've been using the APP in San Francisco. I know New York's on the docket. I might be deployed. You guys have a unique infrastructure capability that's powering this new application, and this is the focus of the conversations. Q. Talk Amazon is a big part of this. Talk about your local be TV that you are protected. This platform for broadcast television has a unique hybrid cloud. Architecture. Can you tell us about that? >>Certainly. I mean, one of our challenges, as you know, is that we are local television eso unlike a lot of products on the markets, you know, like your Hulu's or other VM PV products, which primarily service sort of national feeds and things like that. Ah, we have to be able to receive, um, over the air signals in each market. Um, many channels that serve local content are still over the air, and that is why you don't see a lot of them on those types of services. They tend to get ignored and unavailable to many users. So that's part of our value. Proposition is to not only allow more people to get access to these stations, but, uh, allow the station's themselves to reach more people. So that means that we have to have a local presence in each market in order to receive those signals. Eso that's sort of forces us to have this hybrid model where we have local data centers. But then we also want to be able to effectively manage those in a central way. On. We do that in our cloud platform, which is hosted on Amazon and using Amazon service. >>Let me take take a breath. Here. You have a hybrid architecture on Amazon. So such a using a lot of the plumbing take us through what the architectures ram is on using a variety of their services. Can you unpack that? >>Yeah. So, um, obviously starts with some of the core services, like easy to s three already us, which everybody on planet uses. Um, we're also very focused on using PCs were completely containerized, which allows us to more effectively deploy our services and scale them. Um, and one of the benefits on that front that Amazon provides is that because they're container services wired into all the other services, like cloud, What metrics? Auto scaling policies. I am policies. Things like that. It means it allows us to manage those things in a much more effective way. Um, and use those services too much more effectively make those things reliable and scalable. Um, we also use a lot of their technologies, for example, for collecting metrics. So we use kinesis and red shift to collect real time metrics from all of our markets across the U. S. Uh, that allows us to do that reliably and at scale without having to manage complex each l systems like Kafka and other things. Um, as well a stored in a, uh, large data lake like red shift in Korea for analytics. And you know, things like that. Um, we also use, um, technologies like media Taylor s O, for example, one of the big features that, uh, most stations do not have access to Israel. Time targeted advertising in the broadcast space. Many ads are sold and placed weeks in advance. Um, and not personalized, obviously. You know, for that reason. Where is one of the big features we can bring to the table? Using our system and technologies like Media Taylor is we can provide real time targeted advertising, which is a huge win for these stations. >>What are some of the unique capabilities that you guys are? Offer broadcast station partners because you're basically going in and partnering with broadcast ages as well, but also your enabling new broadcasters to jump. And it's well, what are some of the unique capability that you're delivering? What is that? It's on the table there. What are you doing? This You >>well again. It allows us because we can do things centrally. You know as well as the local reception allows us to do some interesting things. Like if we have channels that, um, are allowed to broadcast even outside their market, Um, then we can easily put them in other markets and get them even more of years. That way we have the ability to even do, like hyper local or community channels, you know that are not necessarily broadcasting over the standard antennas, um, but could get us a feed from, you know, whatever. Zip code in whatever market and we can give them away toe reach viewers in the entire market and other markets, or even just in their local area. So, you know, consider the case where maybe a high school or a college you know, wants to show games or local content. Um, we provide a platform where they can now do that and reach more people, Um, using our app in our platform very, very easily. So that's another area that we want toe help Expand is not just your typical view of local of what's available in Phoenix, Um, but what's available in a particular city in that area or a local community where they want toe, um, reach their community more effectively, or even have content that might be interesting to other communities in Phoenix or one of the other markets? >>No, I think just is not going to side tension here. I talked with your partner. Jim longs to see you guys have an amazing business opportunity again. I think it's kind of misunderstood, but it's very clear to me that follows in. It has huge passion of local journalism. You see awesome efforts out there by Charlie Senate from the ground Truth project report for America. They take a journalism kind of friend few. But if you add like that, did you business model ought to This local journalism you can enable more video locally. I mean, that's really the killer app of video. And now it Koven. More than ever. I really want to know things like this. A mural with downtown Palo Alto Black lives matters. I want to know what's going on. Local summer restaurants, putting people out of sidewalks. Right now I'm limited to, like, next door or very Laghi media, whether it's the website. So again, I think this is an opportunity to that plus education. I mean Amazon educated Prince, that you can get a degree cloud computing by sitting on the couch. So, you know, this is again. This is a paradigm shift from an application standpoint, but you're providing essentially linear TV toe because in the local economy, So I just want to give you a shout out for that because I think it's super important. I think you know, people should get behind this. Eso congratulates. Okay, I'm often my little rant there. Let's get back down to some of that cloud steps. I think what super interesting to me is you guys can stand up infrastructure very quickly and what you've done here, you delivery of the benefits of Amazon of the goodness of cloud you, especially in stand up a metro region pretty quickly try it. And it pretty impressive. So I gotta ask you what? Amazon services are most important for your business. >>Um, well, like I said, I think for us it's matching the central services. So we sort of talked about, uh, managing the software, the AP eyes, um, and those kind of the glue. So, you know, for us standing up a new metro is obviously, you know, getting the data center contracts and all the other you know, >>and >>ask yourself, you have to deal with just have a footprint. But essentially, once we have that in place, we can spin up the software in the data center and have it hooked into our central service within hours. Right? And we could be starting channels >>literate >>literally within half a day. Um, so that's the rial win for us is, um, having all that central blue and the central management system and the scalability where You know, we can just add another 10 20 5100 markets. And the system is set up to scale centrally, um, where we can start collecting metrics their cloudwatch from those data centers. We're collecting logs and diagnostic information. Eso weaken the type health and everything else centrally and monitor and operate all of these things centrally in a way that is saying and not crazy. We don't need a 24 7 knock of 1000 people to do this. Um, you know, and do that in a way that, you know, we, as a relatively small company can still scale and do that in a sensible way, a cost effective way, which is obviously very important for us at our size. But at any size, um, you want to make sure if you're gonna go into 200 plus markets, that you have a really good cost model. Um and that's one of the things that where Amazon has really really helped us is allow us to do some really complex things and an efficient, scalable, reliable and cost effective way. You know, the cost for us to go into the New Metro now is so small, you know, relatively speaking. Um, but that's really allows. What allows us to do is a business of now. We just opened up New York, you know, and we're going to keep expanding on that model. So that's been a huge win for us. Is evaluating what Amazon could bring to the table versus other third parties and or building our own? You know, obviously which >>So Amazon gives you the knock, basically leverage and scale the data center you're referring to. That's pretty much just to get an origination point in the derrick. Exactly. That's right. It's not like it's a super complex data center. You can just go in making sure they got all the normal commute back of recovery in the North stuff. It's not like a heavy duty buildup. Can you explain that? >>Yeah. So one thing we do do in our data centres is because we are local. Um, we have sort of primary data centers. Ah, where we do do trance coating and origination of the video eso we receive the video locally, and then we want to transport and deliver it locally. And that way we're not sending video across the country and back trying to think so that that is sort of the hybrid part of our model. Right? So we stand that up, but then that is all managed by the central service. Right? So we essentially have another container cluster using kubernetes in this case. But that kubernetes cluster is essentially told what to do by everything that's running in Amazon. So we essentially stand up the kubernetes cluster, we wire it up to the Central Service, and then from then on, it just we just go into the Central Service and say, Stand up these channels. Um and it all pops up >>with my final question on the Amazon pieces is really about future capabilities Besides having a cube channel, which I would love to head on there. And I told my guys, We'll get there. But what is this too busy working around the clock is You guys are with Kobe tonight? Yeah, sand. I can almost see a slew of new services coming out just on the Amazon site if I'm on the Amazon. So I'm thinking, OK, outposts. The opportunity from a I got stage maker machine learning coming in any value for user experience and also, you know, enabling in their own stuff. They got a ton of stuff with prime the moving people around and delivering the head room for Amazon. This thing is off the charts. But that being said, that's Amazon could see them winning with this. I'm certainly I know using elemental as well. But for you guys on the consumer side, what features and what new things do you see on the road map or what? You might envision the future looking like, >>Well, I think part of it. I think there's two parts. One is what are we gonna deliver ourselves, you know? So we sort of talked about adding community content and continuing to evolve the local beauty product. Um, but we also see ourselves primarily as a local TV platform. Um, and you know, for example, you mentioned prime. And a lot of people are now realizing, especially with Cove, it and what's going on the importance of local television. Ah, and so we're in discussions on a lot of fronts with people to see how how we can be the provider of that local TV content, you know, um and that's really a lot of stationed are super psyched about that to just, you know, again looking to expand their own footprint and their own reach. You know, we're basically the way that we conjoined those two things together between the station's the other video platforms and distribution mechanisms and the viewers. Obviously, at the end of the day, um, you know, we want to make sure local viewers can get more local content and stuff this interesting to them. You know, like you said with the news, it is not uncommon that you may have your Bay area stations, but the news is still may be very focused on L. A or San Francisco or whatever. Um and so being able to enable, uh, you know, the smaller regional outlets to reach people in that area in a more local fashion, uh, is definitely a big way that we can facilitate that from the platform. And, you know, if you were perspective, so we're hoping to do that in any way we can. You know, our main focus is make local great, you know, uh, get the broadcast world out there, and that's not going anywhere, especially with things like HSC tree. Uh, you know on the front. Um, and you know, we just want to make sure that those people are successful, um, and can reach people and make revenue. And, you know, >>you got a lot of it and search number two. But I think one of the things that's just think about your project that I find is a classic case of people who focus in on that Just, you know, current market value investing versus kind of game changing shifts is that you guys air horizontally, enabling in the sense that there's so many different use cases. I was pointing out from my perspective journalism, you know, I'm like, I look at that and I'm like, OK, that's a huge opportunity. Just they're changing the game on, you know, societal impact on journalism, huge education, opportunity for cord cutters. You're talking about a whole nother thing around TV. I gotta ask you, you know, pretend I'm an idiot for a minute by our pretending that this person from this making I amenity after I don't understand is it Isn't this just TV? What are you doing? Different? Because it's only local. I can't watch San Francisco. I'm in Chicago and I can't watch Chicago in San Francisco. I get that. You know why? Why is this important? Isn't this just TV? Can I just get on YouTube? Mean Tic tac? Well, talk about the yes >>or no. I mean, there's TV, and then there's TV, You know, as you know, um and, you know, if you look at the TV landscape just pretty fracture. But typically, when you're talking about YouTube or who you're talking about, sort of cable TV channels, you know, you're gonna get your Annie, you're going to get some of your local to ABC and what not? Um, but you're not really getting local contact. And So, for example, in our Los Angeles market, um, we there are There are about 100 something over the air channels. If you look at the cross section of which of those channels you can get on your other big name products like you lose your YouTube TV, you're talking about maybe 1/2 a dozen or a dozen, right? So there's like 90 plus channels that are local to L. A. That you can only get through an antenna, right? And those air hitting the type of demographics. You know, quite frankly, some of these other players or just, you know, don't see is important >>under other minorities. Back with immigrants, you know, hit the launch printers of our country. Yes, >>exactly. You know, So, you know, we might see a lot of Korean channels or Spanish channels or other. You know, um, minority channels that you just won't get over your cable channels or your typical online video providers. So that's again Why, you know, we feel like we've got something that is really unique. Um, and that is really underserved, you know, as far as on a television sampling, Um, the other side that we bring to the table is that a lot of these broadcast channels are underserved themselves in terms of technology. Right? If you look at, you know, at insertion, um and you know, a lot of the technical discussions about how to do live TV and how to get live tv out there. It's very focused on the o t T market. So again, going back to who lose and >>the utility well, over the top of >>over the top. Yeah. Um and so this broadcast market basically had no real evolution on that front in a while, you know? And I sort of mentioned, like the way ad buying works. You know, it's still sort of the traditional and buying that happens a couple weeks in front. Not a lot of targeted or anything ability. Um, And even when we get to the HSC three, you're now relying on having an H s street TV and you're still tied to an antenna, etcetera, etcetera, which is again, a good move forward, but still not covering the spectrum of what these guys really want to reach and do. So that's where we kind of fill in the gaps, you know, using technology and filling in the gap of receiving a signal and bringing these technologies. So not only the ad insertion and stuff we can do for the life stream, Um, but providing analytics and other tools to the stations, uh, that they really don't have right now, unless you're willing to shell out a lot of money for Nielsen, which a lot of local small stations don't do s so we can provide a lot of analytics on viewership and targeting and things like that that they're really looking forward to and really excited >>about. I gotta ask you, put you on the spot. He'll because I don't see Andy Jassy. It reinvented might. Hopefully I'll see him this year. They do a person event. He's really dynamic. And you just said it made me think he tends to read his emails a lot. And if your customer and you are. But if you bumped into Andy Jassy on the elevators like, Hey, why should I pay attention to? Did you? What's why is it important for Amazon? And why is it important for the world? How does it raise the bar on society? >>Well, I think part of what Amazon's goal And you know, especially if you get into, you know, their work in the public sector on education. Um, you know, that's really where you know, we see we're focusing with the community on local television and enabling new types of local television eso. I think there's a lot of, uh, advantage, and, um, I hate the word synergy, but I'm going to use the word synergies, you know, um, this for us, You know, our goals in those areas around, you know, really helping, you know, Uh, you know, one of the terms flying around now is the dot double bottom line, where it's not just about revenue. It's about how do we help people and communities be better as well? Um, so there's a bottom line in terms of, uh, people benefit and revenue in that way, not just financial revenue, Right? And you know, that's very important to us as a business as well is, you know, that's why we're focused on local TV. And we're not just doing another food. Go where it's really easy to get a night. The national feed. You know, it's really important to us to enable the local, um, community and the local broadcasters and local channels and the local viewers to get that content, Um, that they're missing out on right now. Um, so I think there's a energy on that front A so >>far, synergy and the new normal to have energy in the near normal. You know, I think I think Kobe did. >>And you know, um, and some of the other, uh, things that have been happening in the news of the black lives matter and, um, you know, a lot of things going around where you know, local and community has been in the spotlight right and getting the word out and having really local things versus 100. Seeing this thing from, you know, three counties away, which I don't really care about, it's not telling me what's happening down the street, like you said, Um, and that's really what we want to help improve and support. >>Yeah, I know it's a great mission is one we care a lot of cute. We've seen the data content drives, community engagement and communities where the truth is so in an era where we need more transparency and more truth, you get more cameras on the street, you're gonna start to see things. That's what we're seeing, a lot of things. And as more data is exposed as you turn the lights on, so this week that kind of data will only help communities grow, heal and thrive. So, to me, big believer in what you guys are doing local be TV is a great mission. Wish you guys well and thanks for explaining the infrastructure on Amazon. I think you guys have a really killer use case. Technically, I mean to me. I think the technical superiority of what you've done. Abilities stand up. These kinds of networks with massive number potential reach out of the gate. It's just pretty impressive. Congratulations, >>Right. Thank you very much. And thanks for taking the time. >>Okay. Dan Drew, vice president of James. Did you start up? That's a lot of potential. Will. See. Let's go check out the comments on YouTube while we're here. Since we got you, let's see what's going on the YouTube front year. Yeah. The one question was from someone asked me, Was stiff from TV Cres that William Dan, Great to see you. Thanks for taking the time on Sunday and testing out this new zoom home recording my home studio, which I got to get cleaned up a little. Thank you for your time problem. Okay, take care.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue. Now here's your host. Still minimum. >> Hi, I'm student men and welcome to a special edition of Cube conversations here in our Boston area studio. Habito. Welcome to the program. First of all, to my right, a first time guests on the program Drew Clark, Who's the chief strategy officer? A click and welcome back to the program tomorrow on Carryon. Who's a senior vice president of enterprise data integration now with Click but new title to to the acquisition of Eternity. So thanks so much for joining us, gentlemen. >> Great to be here. >> All right, True, You know, to Nitti we've had on the program anytime we haven't click on the program, but maybe for audience just give us a quick level set on Click. And you know the acquisition, you know, is some exciting news. So let's start there and we'LL get into it. >> Sure, thanks. Teo and Click were a twenty five year old company and the business analytics space. A lot of people know about our products. Clint View, Click Sense. We have fifty thousand customers around the world and from large companies, too kind of small organizations. >> Yeah. Alright. Eso you No way. Talk a lot about data on our program. You know, I looked through some of the clique documentation. It resonated with me a bit because when we talk about digital transformation on our program, the key thing that different to the most between the old way of doing things the modern is I need to be data driven. They need to make my decision the the analytics piece of that s o it. Tomorrow, let's start there and talk about, you know, other than you know, that the logo on your card changes. You know what's the same? What's different going forward for you? >> Well, first, we were excited about that about this merger and the opportunity that we see in the market because there's a huge demand for data, presumably for doing new types of analytics business intelligence. They they's fueling the transformation. And part of the main challenge customers have organizations have is making more data available faster and putting it in the hands of the people who need it. So, on our part of the coming from eternity, we spend the last few years innovating and creating technology that they helped car organizations and modernize how they create new day. The architecture's to support faster data, more agility in terms ofthe enabling data for analytics. And now, together with Click, we can continue to expand that and then the end of the day, provide more data out to more people. >> S o. You know, Drew, it's interesting, you know that there's been no shortage of data out there. You know, we've for decades been talking about the data growth, but actually getting access store data. It's in silos more than ever. It's, you know, spread out all over the day. We say, you know, the challenge of our time is really building distributed architectures and data is really all over the place and, you know, customers. You know, their stats all over the places to how much a searchable how much is available. You know how much is usable? So, you know, explain a little bit, you know, kind of the challenge you're facing. And you know how you're helping move customers along that journey? >> Well, what you bring up stew is thie kind of the idea of kind of data and analytics for decision making and really, it's about that decision making to go faster, and you're going to get into that right kind of language into the right individuals. And we really believe in his concept of data literacy and data literacy was said, I think, well, between two professors who co authored a white paper. One professor was from M I t. The other one's from ever sin college, a communication school. Data literacy is the kind of the ability to read, understand, analyze and argue with data. And the more you can actually get that working inside an organization, the better you have from a decision making and the better competitive advantage you have your evening or wind, you're going to accomplish a mission. And now with what you said, the proliferation of data, it gets harder. And where do you find it? And you need it in real time, and that's where the acquisition of opportunity comes in. >> Okay, I need to ask a follow up on that. So when a favorite events I ever did with two other Emmett professors, yes, where Boston area. We're putting a lot >> of the >> mighty professors here, but any McAfee and Erik Nilsson talked about racing with the machine because, you know, it's so great, you know? You know who's the best chess player out there? Was it you know, the the human grandmaster, or was that the computer? And, you know, the studies were actually is if you put the grandmaster with the computer, they could actually beat either the best computer or the best person. So when you talk about, you know, the data and analytics everybody's looking at, you know, the guy in the ML pieces is like, OK, you know, how do these pieces go together? How does that fit into the data literacy piece? You know, the people and, you know, the machine learning >> well where you bring up is the idea of kind of augmenting the human, and we believe very much around a cognitive kind of interface of kind of the technology, the software with kind of a person and that decision making point. And so what you'LL see around our own kind of perspective is that we were part of a second generation be eye of like self service, and we've moved rapidly into this third generation, which is the cognitive kind of augmentation and the decision maker, right? And so you say this data literacy is arguing with data. Well, how do you argue and actually have the updated machine learning kind of recommendations? But it's still human making that decision. And that's an important kind of component of our kind of, like, our own kind of technology that we bring to the table. But with the two nitti, that's the data side needs to be there faster and more effective. >> Yeah. So, Itamar, please. You know Phyllis in on that. That data is the, you know, we would in big data, we talk about the three V's. So, you know, where are we today? How dowe I be ableto you know, get in leverage all of that data. >> So that's exactly where we've been focused over the last few years and worked with customers that were focused on building new data lakes, new data warehouses, looking at the clouds, building basically more than new foundations for enabling the organization to use way more data than every before. So it goes back to the volume at least one V out of the previous you mentioned. And the other one, of course, is the velocity. And how fast it is, and I've actually come to see that there are, in a sense, two dimensions velocity that come come together. One is how timely is the data you're using. And one of the big changes we're seeing in the market is that the user expectation and the business need for real time data is becoming ever more critical. If we used to talkto customers and talk about real time data because when they asked her data, they get a response very quickly. But it's last week's data. Well, that's not That doesn't cut it. So what we're seeing is that, first of all, the dimension of getting data that Israel Time Day that represents the data is it's currently second one is how quickly you can actually make that happen. So because business dynamics change match much faster now, this speed of change in the industry accelerates. Customers need the ability to put solutions together, make data available to answer business questions really faster. They cannot do it in the order ofthe month and years. They need to do it indoors off days, sometimes even hours. And that's where our solutions coming. >> Yeah, it's interesting. You know, my backgrounds. On the infrastructure side, I spent a lot of time in the cloud world. And, you know, you talk about, you know, health what we need for real time. Well, you know, used to be, you know, rolled out a server. You know, that took me in a week or month and a V m it reduced in time. Now we're, you know, containerized in communities world. And you know what? We're now talking much sort of time frame, and it's like, Oh, if you show me the way something was, you know, an hour ago. Oh, my gosh, That's not the way the world is. And I think, you know, for years we talked to the Duke world. You know what Israel time and how do I really define that? And the answer. We usually came up. It is getting the right information, you know, in the right place, into the right person. Or in the sales standpoint, it's like I need that information to save that client. They get what they need. So we still, you know, some of those terms, you know, scale in real time, short of require context. But you know what? Where does that fit into your customer discussions. >> Well, >> to part says, you bring up. You know, I think what you're saying is absolutely still true. You know, right? Data, right person, right time. It gets harder, though, with just the volumes of data. Where is it? How do you find it? How do you make sure that it's It's the the right pieces to the right place and you brought up the evolution of just the computer infrastructure and analytics likes to be close to the data. But if you have data everywhere, how do you make sure that part works? And we've been investing in a lot of our own Cloud Analytics infrastructure is now done on a micro services basis. So is running on Cuban eighties. Clusters it Khun work in whatever cloud compute infrastructure you want, be it Amazon or zur or Google or kind of your local kind of platform data centers. But you need that kind of small piece tied to the right kind of did on the side. And so that's where you see a great match between the two solutions and when you in the second part is the response from our customer's on DH after the acquisition was announced was tremendous. We II have more customer who works in a manufacturing space was I think this is exactly what I was looking to do from an analytic spaces I needed. Mohr did a real time and I was looking at a variety of solutions. She said, Thank you very much. You made my kind of life a little easier. I can narrow down Teo. One particular platform s so we have manufacturing companies. We have military kind of units and organizations. Teo Healthcare organizations. I've had just countless kind of feedback coming in along that same kind of questions. All >> right, Amaar, you know, for for for the eternity. Customers, What does this mean for them coming into the click family? >> Well, first of all, it means for them that we have a much broader opportunity to serve them. Click is a much, much bigger company. We have more resources. We can put a bear to both continuing enhance The opportunity. Offering is well as creating integrations with other products, such as collecting the click Data catalyst, which are click acquired several months ago. And there's a great synergy between those the products to the product and the collected a catalyst to provide a much more comprehensive, more an enterprise data integration platform, then beyond there to create, also see energies with other, uh, click analytic product. So again, while the click their integration platform consisting Opportunity and Click the catalyst will be independent and provide solutions for any data platform Analytic platform Cloud platform is it already does. Today we'LL continue to investigate. There's also opportunities to create unique see energies with some afar clicks technologies such as the associative Big Data Index and some others to provide more value, especially its scale. >> All right, eso drew, please expand on that a little bit if you can. There's so many pieces I know we're going to spend a little bit. I'm going deeper and some some of the other ones. But when you talk to your customers when you talk to your partners, what do you want to make sure there their key takeaways are >> right. So there is a couple of important points Itamar you made on the data integration platform, and so that's a combination of the eternity products plus the data catalysts, which was, you know, ca wired through podium data. Both of those kind of components are available and will continue to be available for our customers to use on whatever analytics platform. So we have customers who use the data for data science, and they want to work in our python and their own kind of machine learning or working with platforms like data robots. And they'LL be able to continue to do that with that same speed. They also could be using another kind of analytical visualization tool. And you know, we actually have a number of customers to do that, and we'LL continue to support that. So that's the first point, and I think you made up, which is the important one. The second is, while we do think there is some value with using Click Sense with the platform, and we've been investing on a platform called the Associative Big Data Index, and that sounds like a very complicated piece. But it's what we've done is taken are kind of unique kind of value. Proposition is an analytical company which is thehe, bility, toe work with data and ask questions of it and have the answers come to you very quickly is to be able to take that same associative experience, uh, that people use in our product and bring it down to the Data Lake. And that's where you start to see that same kind of what people love about click, view and click sense and brought into the Data Lake. And that's where Tamara was bringing up from a scale kind of perspective. So you have both kind of opportunities, >> Drew, and I really appreciate you sharing the importance of these coming together. We're going to spend some more time digging into the individual pieces there. I might be able to say, OK, are we passed the Data Lakes? Has it got to a data swamp or a data ocean? Because, you know, there are lots of sources of data and you know the like I always say Is that seems a little bit more pristine than the average environment. Eso But thank you so much and look forward to having more conversations with thanks to all right, you. And be sure to, uh, check out the cute dot net for all our videos on stew minimum. Thanks so much for watching

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachesetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman and this is a CUBE conversation from our Boston area studios. The ecosystem around data and analytics definitely isn't becoming any simpler today. Joining me for this segment is Drew Clarke who's the chief strategy officer at Qlik. And Drew let's start there, we talk about the wave of big data, a lot of them have wrapped themselves around the cloke of AI today, you've got machine learning in there. So help kinda give us a little bit about where Qlik fits into that ecosystem and differentiates itself from this very diverse ecosystem. >> Yeah, sure and I get that question a lot Stu is, who is Qlik and what makes us unique. And as a strategy, individual and professional, I spend a lot of time talking, working with customers that are looking at companies and I always come back to it like, what is that core kinda part? Every company comes from something and then how does it fit into the landscape, so I use actually our history to explain a little bit about who we are. So we're 25 years ago, or 25 years old and our very first customer was Tetrapak which make cardboard boxes, of all different sizes, so if you think about Amazon when you order something and you get it showed up at your, it shows up at your desktop or your door, it's in a different size box. Well Tetrapak had a problem of their sales people were selling inventory they didn't have. And they needed to be able to sell what they had, but they also wanted to make sure they showed what they did not have. So they signed on and had a project with Qlik. And this is in Sweden, and they developed a product which is really a product configurator tied with a visualization to it. So what they had the answer on a business question was, tell me what products are and are not available and be able to dynamically make selections as sales reps were answering the questions. So that was the genesis of our own kinda product, so we had a choice back then to say, do we stay in a product configurator space, or do we move into the visualization analytics? And so we took that unique kinda package, what we call the associative engine with the visual kinda piece and we went and started on the business intelligence or the analytics journey. And where we've kinda evolved that as a company is we took that, and another great example is another customer a couple of years ago there was the tsunami in Japan, do you remember that Stu? >> Of course. >> When that happened. So one of our customers was in the consumer products and they had a lot of supply or ingredients that came out of Japan. And they also knew that, okay, the tsunami hit, big impact on there supply chain, and they had to actually make an announcement, they had earnings on Wall Street, and they needed to be able to outline to their investors within the week to say, well is this a big impact, is this not a big impact on our forward looking revenues? And they tried answering the question using traditional analytics, you know, show me what products were impacted by the tsunami, and that's a first order question, as you know it's an easy question to ask. Well now you're going down into the ingredients, you're looking at where the data is in the supply chain and you come back with an answer that says these are the ones that are impacted. The next question that the business asks was okay, tell me what products were not affected. And now think about that is not question going through every single row. Oh and tell me what the inventory is, and can we run campaigns and sales where we know we're either A gonna miss our revenue numbers or we're gonna hit 'em. And they used the Qlik, they tried a different kinda traditional way of answering a question, they couldn't answer it 'cause they get stuck at that first. It was Qlik that actually entered and helped them answer the second question, show what products were not affected and do we have inventory, and they would be able to make that decision. And so that's where we start, what we makes us unique is this combination of analytics and visual kinda interface. And that's been kinda our core differentiator in the market from 25 years ago to where we are today. >> Yeah, and boy that history has changed quite a lot. Think about data visualization, we used to do infographics many years ago, just how do I tell a story with that data? There's the creative things you can do with it but as well as us as humans we look at all of those data points out there and most of the times it's not static, I love people when they're sharing, it's like okay, let me give you charts for something over a 100 year period, and you can watch it ebb and flow and change in the like, so there's so many technology. 25 years ago, cloud had many different terms, I can argue I've worked with plenty of people that we had the XSP back in the 90s and the pre-cloud things. But there's some challenges that we've been trying to solve and then some major breakthroughs we've had with some of these journeys and these technology waves, so bring us up to today as to, we talk about things like speed and scale and agility impacting what we're doing, it's got to be, you've got the why and the core, but the how and the what has changed dramatically. >> Stu you really are kind of a technical kinda guy at heart, right, so one of the things you said at the beginning there where you talked about looking at an infographic and the human kinda component of, how do you look at this information, how do you understand it? It's getting bigger and harder to understand. One of the things that we firmly believe in is the human being is an integral part of the decision making process. And so you think about a scatter plot with 30,000 data points, how do you actually make sense of it? And we spend a lot of time about the human brain and how it looks at information on this kinda big data scale and we're a predator as a human, we're binocular and we look for certain things, and so we spend a lot of time around that kinda visual interface. And I think Steven Few writes about this, Edward Tufte and his documentation around kinda how do you present information in a great way. Well, you take that 30,000 data points on a scatterplot, and well bringing it forward in our technology we show density in heat because that's what we look for. And we look for patterns, and we look for outliers as a predator as kind of an individual. And so we present the information in a way that a human is kinda wired to receive it, but underneath, and this is where I think you're second part was going, underneath is like how do you keep that elegance and responding to a kind of now compute and infrastructure and all the sides. >> Yeah and I guess I always worried is we talk about garbage in, garbage out sometimes. How do I make sure I've got good data, how do I make sure the algorithm is learning? There was a tool that was, oh let me train this AI on Twitter and what they got back they had to turn it off really quick because it became a troll and then much worse and the language was awful, so sometimes if you just let the data run wild the algorithm doesn't understand what's going on. How do you balance that and make sure we're getting good decisions and good information? And we say, if you automate a bad process you haven't done a good thing. >> Right, right. Well that comes through a number of layers from automation there's kinda the data, getting it from the raw source, getting it ready for the analytical consumption, and is it a machine, is it a human, is it a human augmented with kinda the intelligence? And as you progress through this data journey of bringing the data into now the common terms are data lakes and data swamps. How do you find the right information and where do you put the right kinda governance? And governance, not being a bad word, but governance being a, I'm confident that information is correct. And so you see the introduction of data catalogs, so much like a card catalog in a library if you're old enough to actually remember that. >> I know the Dewey Decimal System. >> Okay, there you go so I was a page, that was one of my first paying job was to put books back in the library. And you want to be able to find the right information and know that it's been curated, been set up, but it doesn't have to be written all out. You want to have that progressive kind of bringing of that information for the user to be able to do that. And as you kind of fan out from the central that raw data out to kinda where the analytics users are kinda engaging and working with it. That governance allows for that confidence, but then you need to know that you're scaling and the speed. You don't want to wait if you had a request. The decision just like, even what happened to that customer, tsunami happened, I have earnings on a set day in days from an event. I can't wait a month to come up with the answer. I need that speed, I need that faster. >> Alright, so who's the one inside the customer that work's on this, you know, we've all heard that there's skill gaps out there. Years ago it was like, okay we're going to build this giant army of data scientists. It's not like we're saying we don't need data scientists but we don't have enough time to train enough PhD's to fill the jobs. So where are we today, where do the customers fit organizationally, and if you can get into a little bit of where the product touches them? >> Sure, so what you bring up is the. Great interviewer, broad question, so many different ways we can go with this. And I come back to the idea of what a lot of people come and talk about is this citizen data scientist, but it's really about data literacy. And these are individuals who need to be comfortable working with data, and how do you actually have that confidence level of when I'm looking at it do I know is it real? Am I having the right conversation? Just recently I had the opportunity to see a number of presentations by college seniors who were presenting their senior thesis' on how they're working on a particular theme. And I was in this behavioral sciences and leadership department, it was at the United States Military Academy at Westpoint. And when you think about leadership and you think about behavioral sciences and you think about a lot of the softer side of it, but everyone of these cadets had data and you can see them looking at the empirical data, looking at the R coefficients, is this noise, is this signal, what's causation versus correlation. What you see is this language of data literacy in the curriculum and you flash forward and you look at every department in a company and you see people are coming in who understand there's data that can be used to be informing my decision so I don't need to wait for this white lab coat PhD on data science. It's like well, is there causation is there correlation? So marketing, finance, sales, we're seeing this at that data citizen at the edges in a company and it's coming out of the universities. >> Yeah I was at a conference recently and the analysts up on the keynote stage says, you want to teach your team machine learning? Get a summer intern that's taken the courses and have them spend a week training you up on it. So excellent, so sounds like if someone wants to get started with Qlik, relatively low bar. I don't have to go through some six month training class to be able to start getting some business value and rolling this out. >> Yeah, exactly. Stu, you can go right on our website and you can sign up and start to use our product right in the cloud. If you want to put it on a desktop you can do that. And you just drag in your first data files and I encourage you to actually bring in a complicated dataset. Don't go with a simple excel file, a lot of companies can do bars, charts, and graphs. But what you really want to do is bring in two different datasets and bring it into, and remember the associative engine of bringing different data together? And it's the second and third question that you're really looking for those insights. And so you can very quickly assemble the information. You don't need to go back and learn what a left outer joint is because our engine takes care of that for you. You want to understand what's going on? It's transparent. And then you start finding insights within minutes of being able to use that. >> Yeah well if you go back to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, sometimes the answer's easy, I have to know the right questions to be able to ask. Alright, Drew I want to give you the final takeaway for this piece. >> Okay, so if you're thinking about dealing with any data and you want to answer not just the question, but it's usually the second and third, and you want to have a speed of use. You can do that with our platform, but think about it really in that concept of data literacy and you want that right information for the individuals to read and write, that's okay and it's easy. It's analyzing and arguing and that's where the competitive advantage so take a look at that. >> Alright, well Drew Clarke really appreciate the updates on Qlik and be sure to check out theCUBE.net. There's a nice little search bar on top, you can search by company, search by person, actually a lot of the key metadata you can search for in there. Thousands of videos in there. Never a registration to be able to get it. So I'm Stu Miniman and thanks as always for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> We're back in Del Technologies world. All the action. Fifteen thousand people here. You watching the Cube? The leader in live tech coverage? My name is Dave. Along time here with my co host student, um, in Walter Wall coverage. Drew Schulke is here Vice president of networking product Management at Del Technologies. Good to see you, Drew. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're very welcome. Text coming on. So we're talking networking. It's been an exploding business for you guys. I mean, it's one of the really shining stars of of the portfolio. We're gonna talk a little bit about why, but go back a little bit. Talk about some of the trends and networking over the past several years. Obviously, cloud is changing the way people are looking at networks here, this multi cloud thing, What's going on? >> Well, I think we won the clock back five years ago because that's what I think. We have this seminal moment in networking where we as at the time Della now Delhi emcee took an unprecedented step to say we wanted to segregate the networking stack, for We want the hardware discussion in the software discussion around networking to be distinct on DH. It wasn't, you know, novel for the network at the time, but for the rest of the industry, if you think about the way storage and servers and virtual ization head of all, not really novel. So we were really kind of playing catch up from a networking perspective, and that really opened up a whole new era of covering for us in terms of what we were doing as a networking vendor. You also look at what some of the big hyper scale companies were trying to do with their own networks. And there was this great synergy to put together this cloud computing era networking stack that was fundamentally different than what we've seen for the past twenty years. And we've just seen a massive wave of adoption and moving to this open this aggregated and software to find network ever since. >> So stools up more of a networking guy than I am, he explained to me years ago. Dave, with the Clouds Network's gonna flatten Travis going to go east west, not so much north south, he would draw the diagrams. What did that mean from a from a product perspective for you guys. >> What a member of a proper perspective for us is that we wanted to focus on to your point. This modern networking design, which is you're going to talk about the fabrics. It's all about the fabrics, which is the way we put together that network in the data center to facilitate all that east West traffic. And done correctly, it can scale toe on a massive scale. This is what all the biggest hyper skills air out there running today to support their cloud data centers, which have thousands of servers and thousands of switch, is behind it. So it's a proven model. It could be very, very effective, and ultimately, just in terms of its approach and architecture, the total cost of ownership is significantly lower than what we saw you for the previous twenty years. And then >> just true. It's really interesting, you know, that the challenger of Time is absolutely these distributed systems and it is dis aggregating. At the same time, customers are looking forward to be simplified and, you know, if you can pull things together on DH you look at You know, what I heard on the stage this morning is a lot of the cloud messaging was it was Del Plus Veum wear and partners there to put together that entire solution from a customer. I can't say OK, well, let me get a box and lend me light, load some operating system and take all these other pieces. I can't be building the stack and putting all of these pieces together. So explain how while you're dis aggregating at the end of the day, this is going to be simpler for customers. And operationally, it's something that they shouldn't have to touch too much >> so But by desegregating way, let the software guys do with the software guys do, which is software and software is a powerful tool when it comes to the network that was never really fully tapped until we opened up the switch and allowed it to be, you know, agnostic to the software that was running on top of it. So let me bring up a case in point. Big switch, A big partner of ours who had a big announcement a couple days ago where we're actually entering into an OM agreement. They've got a strong presence here, you know, through their software in that fabric that very, very large and complex fabric. They've done a great job in terms of making that fabric appear to be much simpler than it really is. And it's all about the way you present it in terms of this complexity and how do we manage that? And so our mission in working with companies like big switches to bring a level of simplicity Teo to a piece of the data center that, quite frankly, for the longest time has been thriving on complexity, where people kind of got paid by understanding how complex things were. And it really doesn't have to be that way. Software can be powerful. Software can make lives easier. Software could be an integral part of that transformation story, and networking is no different when it comes to that. >> So you got some hard news? Att, the show today We talked about that. >> Yeah, so a couple of things we have going on. So for one today, we announced a new branding of our networking hardware portfolio. So given that we are powering some of the biggest data centers in the world. We are embracing the power adjective here and going with the power switch brand of networking switches S o joining some of our fellow Delhi and see product lines with that with that power theme on it, I think it's a great transition. And so we're really excited about that. You know, we're going to have some nice themes around flipping the switch from a power perspective, open networking, which a lot of our customers are already doing today. So it's a big one that we have today. Another one that we have is we're announcing a couple of new, actually a new power switches in that portfolio. Some twenty five gigs switches that we're bringing to market really focused on a hyper converge software to find storage use case wherein a great many cases. There's a small cluster that small in size in terms of number of nodes but has a high degree of bandwidth that's required to make it perform. So we've introduced a couple of small poor count twenty five gigs switches as well at the show s so very excited about those being the first to flagship power switch switches that we're bringing to the >> market drops Really interesting. I mean, I worked a DMC and when we worked on some of the package solutions, there was storage networking pieces. But, you know, networking in general, You know, I I had advocated for years. We need to be ableto bundle this together. You want to be able to have that easy button so that I can freakin figure and put everything fainting together there. You can explain that. You know, people think HD either are like, Oh, isn't that have networking all bundled in? How is it tied together? But yet, you know, usually these air kind of separate peace, sis, >> I say, Up until a few months ago, networking was on afterthought from an HD eye perspective. And that's an interesting statement, not just from a deli and see perspective, but leading up to that few months ago. We've been working heavily, for example, with VX rail team, because while hyper convergence has a great story line around collapsing computing storage together in the value prop, there was really, really compelling that working was this kind of well, it's just going to sort of work. But if you took a You know, some deep conversations with customers around problems they saw on deployment and areas where they might be holding themselves back in terms of performance. Of those systems, networking was a common thing. And so for us, it was a no brainer to sit down with the X rail team and say, You know, how do we, you know, force the best practice in terms of the network and just automate the heck out of it? And so what we did is develop a deep set of integrations with the extra manager, where Roos ten operating system can do a handshake with the extra manager and take the number of steps to deploy and Hcea Network and reduce it by ninety six percent. So that's pretty compelling in terms of automation, and we're doing it in such a way that it's always going to be that best practice every time. So there's no guessing on Did I do it correctly? I'm not gonna have a performance issue. Why not just automate that and make it really seem with so great advancements? They're excited about even taking that further with them in additional work down the road next year. >> One of things we're hearing from executives, Adele certainly heard it from From Jeff Clark. Uh, in the analyst breakout this morning is alignment across the portfolio of del companies. Obviously, VM wears a linchpin of your multi cloud strategy. Uh, you can't talk with V M, where executives talked to them without hearing about NSX. So what do you doing with regard to NSX and NSX integration? >> Yeah, great question. So great think. Restoring that we have about NSX is in terms of what it's expecting of what we call the underlay or the physical network that's actually powering the network is they wanted to be fabric based. They wanted to be good at transport and easy to manage. And so a lot of the work that we've been trying to do with them is how do we present that network into an NSX environment so that that physical in virtual network come together in a seamless way? So that's an area that we were spending a lot of time with him. Another area you'LL be moving beyond NSX into other elements that fall within their networking and security business unit is what they're doing at the wide area network. So another big announcement that we have coming out today that I'm really excited to talk about is we've been teaming up with the fellow Claude business within VM Where to deploy what we're calling the s t win. Uh, EJ powered by v m. Where? So this is going to be a turnkey appliance coming preloaded with the fellow cloud software on it running on our new virtual edge products, which is a portfolio of products we added to the networking portfolio about a year ago. And what we believe it's going to go do is enable you know, a significant transformation story of customers that wanna shift to this software to find land. And the economics behind this way don't have enough time in the interview. You need to go into it. But the savings that customers can gain moving to a software defined when strategy just in the transport costs alone with a wider network are compelling. >> Yes, s so just, you know, put a point on that. When when we've looked at multi cloud Esti win is one of those areas that you know, customers said, Oh, this is a real enabler I can't really do multi cloud. I can have a bunch of pieces, but if I want to tie together, if I want to really do anything, they're SD wins. Enablement plain kind of why that is, >> yeah, because ATT the end of the day Look, you're you're sitting there on your call that an end point device and think about the traffic pattern that you're generating as an employee of some of that traffic is going to public Cloud A. Someone's going to public copy. Someone's going to a centralized data center. These traffic patterns, they're becoming more complex. They're carrying more and more traffic as we crank up the band with in terms of what we're trying to support. And so our customers, when they look at that, how did they bring order to that? And if you don't have a software to find approach where you could bring some level of centralization of policy and end the invisibility of all those end points, it's going to become unruly, which, which is what it's become for a great many customers. So it's very rare that I come across the customer that doesn't want to have an ston conversation to your point Because the pain points air, their traffic continues to grow. The multi cloud story means I have to direct it to several different clouds, including my own, including the others. And I gotta have an effective way to go do that. >> What is this? Flip the switch mean? >> Flip the switch. Yeah, great. So you'LL see some people walking around with flip the switch shirts. So in commemoration of our power switch brand that we're announcing today, uh, you know, we want to encourage our customers to flip the switch to open networking to embrace the modern network design that we've been talking about for the past five years that a great many of our customers have been flipping the switch to. So we've been consistently growing about to exit the market in the data center space with what we've been doing with this open networking approach, and we want to crank it up even higher. So we're inviting all our customers toe flip the switch, overto open networking. So >> give us the bottom line. Why? Del Networking summarized it for >> I don't know, working because we're going to be the company that's gonna have the conversation around a modern network that's going to enable you to be a software to find and live in that multi cloud world. Full stop. That's it. Everything we do from the lowest piece of hardware, every piece of software that we work to, the partners that we partner with are all about enabling that journey. And it's a really simple strategy. >> Awesome, Drew. Thanks so much for coming to Cuba. Great. Have appreciated. All right. Keep it right there, buddy. Back with our next guests. Right after this short break, David. Dante was too many men right back.

(majestic music) >> Everyone, welcome to this special CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. We're here in our Palo Alto Studios for theCUBE talking about cloud computing and all the greatness around what's happening in tech. We're here with a practitioner who's also the CTO and lead engineering manager executive. His name is Dan Drew, he's with Didjatv. They're a hot startup that's growing doing a unique solution around changing the game and opening up TV for the masses. Great, great opportunity. Thanks for joining me. >> Thanks for having me. >> So one of the things I love about what you guys are doing is you guys are a start up that's challenging the status quo with TV, taking over the air in cities and having an app where you can watch TV without having to, literally cutting the cord. And so it's challenging, but there's some technical things that require cloud. You guys are growing, you're a user of cloud. How are you looking at building out the engineering team? Because you're DevOps, you've been doing DevOps from day one, but you have to have local presences in these markets. You have a data center in each market, plus you have cloud, you're a hybrid. >> Right, exactly. Well, I mean, for us, the cloud is essential because we have, even though we have to have a local presence for each of these markets, because we're obviously receiving local signals and we can only do that in the market, you can't receive an LA signal in Boston, right? So we have the local presence, but at the same time we want to have all of our central stuff managed in a much more effective way, in a central way that we can scale as we grow, right? So as we continue to add markets across the country, which we hope to do very quickly, we want to make sure that the central services that manage all the things that are common in the apps can grow and totally grow as automatically and as scalable as we can. And so we can most effectively accomplish that by leveraging cloud technologies. >> Just to get the idea straight now as we kind of get to the cloud stuff, is you guys are taking over the air TV, which is free-- >> Yes. >> The old antenna days without cable, and there's channels that are available for free. And then putting that into a local region, so LA, Phoenix, San Francisco, Boston, they have their local broadcasts over the air. You bring it in and it's digital and the user's access it via apps and all the things that connect in the edge in the home? >> That's right. >> That's pretty much the general concept? >> Yeah. So basically what we do is we allow you to get all those things without having to worry about an antenna in your house or if you're mobile or whatever. So a lot of people these days might just get a Roku and not want to worry about a physical antenna or whether you're pointing it in the right direction or whether there's some other house in the way. And so we allow them to get the over-the-air channels at high quality no matter where they are without having to worry about sort of the antenna part of the problem. >> It's a great mission, I love it. It's ambitious, a lot of moving parts. You have the content, you got transmission, but it really opens up freedom for people, whole new demographics, great stuff. So okay, how do you make this happen? You got to go deploy clouds. So you obviously want to use the most efficient. You guys are lean and mean. You don't have a huge IT staff. It's you and then a couple of people, basically you. >> Yes, we have a two person off staff and me and some engineers. But yeah, we're pretty lean. >> Yeah, there's not going to be a big data center in the future given what you guys got, but you've been successful with the cloud. Take us through how you guys laid this out with cloud and with the hybrid solution. What are some of the things that you've implemented? What's the architecture, how does it work? >> Well, as you can imagine a lot of our problem is managing sort of network architecture, make sure we have that laid out and that the data, one of the key things for us is the data centers and the cloud talking to each other, as with any hybrid solution. So we spend a lot of time with automation. One of the challenging things with cloud is your first instinct is just get things up. And so you immediately just start going into consoles and start spinning things up, and the next thing you know you've got a huge mess, right? And your ability to get things working or scale, you realize you have to kind of start again or you're constantly working around the problem you created. So we've invested a lot of time in ramping up for automation, make sure every part of the system is well-defined, well understood; that we have the networking set up the way we need to so the data centers can talk to each other. And then also a key part of the decision in a hybrid model is what's in the cloud and what's not? So for us, managing the TV signal, we're basically transcoding incoming signals 24/7. So that's one area where if you look at cloud pricing, that's not the most effective thing to do, is to have 24/7 content going in and out. So that's the type of thing we look at. Okay, we're going to do-- >> And plus you've got a geography challenge, so that's an easy check. >> Yeah, yeah. But you might be tempted to say let's put all the transcoding in the cloud because scale and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you really look at the other factors like how is that going to slow down your network, your ability to deliver streams, your cost effectiveness, that's just where you start to say okay, this offer's going to stay here, this offer's going to go there. >> And that's a latency concern and cost, both or-- >> Definitely latency. We pride ourselves on how quickly we go from over the air to someone's phone. I mean, if you compare-- >> That's table stakes for you, that's like the core app? >> Yes, yes. I mean, we're 30 seconds to a minute faster than Hulu or any of those people as far as our streams going live. And then the other table stakes, because we're lean, is managing our costs. And it's obviously, piping all of that into the cloud for us is not cost effective. And then we also looked at other third-party services like analytics. So our services that manage events and things like that that are core to your app of getting metrics or who's watching your app, how, are they watching it, what device are they watching it on, what time are they watching it? So we looked at different solutions, and that was again a place where the cloud solution ended up matching our requirements and, from a pricing perspective, just made a lot of sense for us versus some other third party or rolling our own, right? >> So cost is not an issue? If it's centralized, you put it in the cloud because you take care of the geography, that's key with the TV signals or whatnot. And then cloud prices, right, if it matches the requirements, manage it within Amazon? >> Yeah. >> And Amazon's your cloud, right? >> Yes, that's right. >> Okay. Okay, so stepping back for a second, you mentioned networking. Because I think one of the things I'm hearing in a lot of these conversations with friends and practitioners who are doing some cutting edge work is they're staying with the holy trinity of the three horsemen, if you will. Storage, compute and networking. The game doesn't change. No matter what people say about storage being dead, it's never going to be dead, right? Those things will change though. So the question I have for you, Dan, is what's the impact that cloud has had on network? I mean, compute's pretty straightforward. You know what compute is. You throw money at compute, you can spin up stuff so it scales, that's a beautiful thing. Storage, some visibility to add storage, some work to be done there; but network has always been a problem. Do you start with networking first? How does cloud and cloud native and those services impact networking? >> Well, it's one of those areas, naturally like all of those areas I guess, but network certainly, where there's really no replacement for expertise and really understanding how does this work? And then being able to apply that to, okay, what does, in our case, like Amazon, provide as far as how much bandwidth can we get in and out? And then planning, okay, how do I manage my hops if I'm going to go build my VPC and my network layout? And how that's all going to go from we're getting a signal over here and it's going to hop, hop, hop, hop, hop. What are those hops and how do we get the most bang for buck out of that? Make sure that that's a little latency between each of those as possible. And that's something where you just have to have the networking experience to understand what are all the variables because there's a lot of levers you can pull in the cloud. They give you a lot of options, which is a blessing and a curse. It's not just push a button and it's magically the perfect solution. You have to really go in and understand what are all those things you can tweak, including what type of instance you choose, which can affect your network bandwidth, as well as your processing power. I mean, you really have to dig into those things. But I would say, for most companies, Amazon or someone like that is still investing way more effort than you're ever likely to in making sure the network and the infrastructure is solid. And they're more invested in doing it because they have to support all these customers on it, and they all have to be happy. >> So they know they have to address it. It's just evolution. >> Exactly, exactly. And yeah, you may have special needs where there's options they provide where maybe you pay more to get higher performance if you need that, but I would say, certainly for some, a company like us, there's no way we're going to spend as much effort trying to get the data center up with the big pipes and everything else that you have. You just got to make sure that you don't shoot yourself in the foot by configuring it wrong. >> And that's really the key. I mean, provisioning, configuration, human error, these are all things. I mean, people also said about Amazon early on, oh securing the cloud sucks. Now it's better security. I mean, the head of the CIA said, on the record, my worst day of securing the cloud is better than my best day on premises. And so it is getting those kinds of scale of things. But at the end of the day, packets are packets and you go from point A to point B. Networking, that's never going to change. So your point about serviceability and programmability comes up, so you guys are living the DevOps ethos because you have to. And you're building that into your entire plan. And this is kind of where I see this next level of evolution where networks are programmable. So what does that look like? Is that configuring configuration management, things from these early trip wires, configuration management, monitoring, easy ones. What's next? What does programmable networking mean for cloud architect because that seems to be an open question right now. What's your thoughts to that? >> I mean, if you're talking about a system like Amazon or I assume like Azure or Google, a lot of that is there where you see like the security issues for example, or where people didn't really make the effort to understand how to lock that down or they couldn't figure it out, things weren't working and they said, all right, open the world, whatever. But if you look at managing security groups, we spent a lot of time managing security groups who can talk to who. Make sure only the people that can talk to each other are supposed to talk to each other. And that's really where I think a system like Amazon will again do that better than you can without a lot of effort, which is they sort of boil it down to just say this person can talk to this person on this port and we'll do the rest. We'll manage firewalls and make sure the ports can talk to each other, whatever. But you just have to tell us they can, and we'll worry about what happens underneath. And so I think you get a lot of that already. Again, it's one of those things where you can shoot yourself in the foot. You can bang your head against the wall a lot of why can't these things talk to each other, but at the end of the day, I'd rather they couldn't talk to each other than it was too open or-- >> Right, it's interesting. You look at the networking thing at the end of the day, if you make it programmable, it just has to work. And I think that brings up the trade offs operationally. And as you guys grow your operation, what are some of the operational factors that you, when you look at the the dots you're connecting with your business as you guys grow, on operations? Is it a trade off of cost and performance? Because obviously you have performance issues on the app because you're streaming to the TV, but you mentioned costs. How are you balancing those trade offs? And what do you look for operationally to evaluate the trade off? >> I think a lot of the time it comes from what do we want our core competencies to be? Is it worth it for us to build this ourselves or develop that skill set? And then you trade that off of what would it cost us to build it ourselves or use Amazon's solution or use some other third-party solution? And then it really comes down to, even if that's more expensive, do we really want to build it ourselves even though that might be cheaper? Is that really worth it to us? >> It's not a core competency. And if you can get it out in the web, why not? >> Yeah, so for example what's in our data centers are transcoding stack, all of that. Yes, we do that ourselves. We don't use Amazon's transcoders, all of that, because that's just key to our business and it's important that we manage that very tightly and it does what we want. And it's also much more cost effective because of what we're doing. We're not just transcoding it (overlapping dialogue)-- >> It's your competitive advantage. That's what you guys are banking on as IP. >> Exactly, but managing the network infrastructure? No. (chuckles) Spinning up Docker containers? No. We're happy to shell that off to Amazon and just-- >> I was talking to a network buddy the other day, and he says, John, what's the big thing with cloud? What's in it for me? I go, here's the modernization of cloud. You're a commandline guy. Commandline interface is over because if you want to go cloud, you're going to be dashboard driven. You're going to be looking at a much more operator role, less of a go in and do more commandline interface, configure these switches, do these things. Kind of connect the dots form. And he goes, okay. Then his next question, which I'll ask you, is he goes, how do you evaluate cloud providers? What's the criteria? Because Amazon's got the most services. They've been around the longest, but Google's got great AI and Azure's got Azure stuff. I'm trying to find some strengths here. (Dan chuckles) They've got Microsoft Office, okay, and some other things. But how would you evaluate, if you had a bank off again today, how would you advise friends in terms of what to look for in a cloud provider? >> I think obviously maturity. This is not something you change your mind about six months from now. If you're going to pick a cloud provider and start deploying on it, that's an investment. You have to be willing to live with that decision for years, likely, right? If you picked wrong and it was painful enough, you might make the switch. So I think you definitely have to do the due diligence on does it do what I need it to do? So for us, it's not just networking and infrastructure. That's, what other service do they have? So for example, the database supports we use. We use their eventing supports so we can send metrics. We use Redshift for big data storage. So you kind of have to look at what does your product need now or in the future? And what do we get? Is it worth it? And you're never going to get everything, but you may find that one gives you 80% and the other one gives you 60 and the other one give you 30. One gives you Office, whatever that, you know. And then also, like integration. You want to look at what else might I want to integrate with and what does that look like? For example, having done a lot of technology evaluations, that's a big key as, well, we're going to plop this not just by itself and it's going to solve everything. We're going to have 10 other things that integrate with it. And how mature is that ecosystem? >> Yeah, and then you have to tie it to the core competency, which you mentioned earlier. >> Core competency, and then you look at other higher level things like what a support looks like? If something goes down in the middle of the night, and I going to be able to talk to someone who can help me out? So there's a lot of things, if you get sort of the higher level of decision making, you really have to consider this is a bet for the product to be up 24/7 that people are going to rely on, and you want to take a real deep dive and look at it. >> Dan, we were talking before we came on camera here about Kubernetes and containers, and you had mentioned there's been some homegrown versions of containers. Containers have been around for awhile. But now, more than ever, you're seeing that as kind of a linchpin, a track towards micro services, which is the path towards server lists and all this greatness that the cloud can bring with cloud native, if you're ready for it. So the question I have for you is, for folks that are looking at containers and Kubernetes, what in those technologies, what should they look for there? Obviously, maturity is one. Kubernetes, I think, has kind of become a de facto standard, but you still can pull that down and run it in your own Kubernetes. Do you use Amazon? So what should folks, practitioners, look for in the technologies behind containers and Kubernetes? >> Well, at this point, like you said, there used to be about half a dozen different container management systems, and I'm sure they're still out there. But more less, Kubernetes has won. If you go to any cloud provider, they will have Kubernetes support. And then there's a pretty big ecosystem around Kubernetes now. So you're really looking at what's going to help me deploy my software the easiest? A lot of people are still using packages and things like that. And I think a lot of the reason for the adoption of containers is not just hey, it's another packaging system, but it has the advantages kind of like virtual machines. And I think everybody loved virtual machines for the right reasons, but where containers kind of took over is they're more lightweight. Virtual machines, because they're an entire hosted operating system, they have a lot of overhead. And you have to really reserve resources and things like that for that world. >> And they served a purpose at that time. >> Exactly, right? For the same concept of having an isolated package that I can just install on machines and it works, still holds true. And that's what container provides but with a much smaller footprint where you can run them without all the extra overhead and all the extra stuff that's in between a virtual machine and its host. So I think they serve that containers are just sort of the next evolution of the virtual machine. And then where something like Kubernetes comes in is sort of similar like where VMware would have been, where you can sort of put your services in a repository and then say, look, here's a bunch of hosts, go figure it out. Which, once you get to scale, that's really where you want to be. If you're still micromanaging how many instances you have, you're not going to scale. >> You're not ready for Kubernetes basically is what you're saying? >> No. >> So there's a tipping point for Kubernetes. What is that tipping point? What's the scale? What's the order of magnitude, general view on (overlapping dialogue) >> Well, I mean, if you're talking about containers, if you're already sort of in the container world, that tipping point for that, or say Amazon's container service is sort of day one, don't start deploying containers manually. That's just crazy. Figure this out. And even if you configure it to say you're only going to to two and I'll worry about autoscaling later, at least you have that foundation and you know where your containers go and you know someone's managing the host for you instead of you going I'm going to go to host X and tell it run container Y, and I have to do that all manually because now you're sort of gone back to the stone ages of operational deployment of where I'm going to log in and install a package and do everything manually. >> And nobody wants that by the way? >> Nobody, nobody should want that. If you do, please, please don't work. I don't know what to say. >> Don't show up. >> Don't show up. Don't show up. >> Or buy short stock, whatever company. >> Yes, exactly. So I think yeah, if you're going to go the container model, you want to go figure that out and get the expertise and get that set up. And again, even if you are not going to use all the bells and whistles right away, there's a lot of, like with any technology, a lot of quirks and challenges with managing containers like managing networking of how does this request go from someone's browser to this container running on this host inside a container? And that's not trivial. So having something like Kubernetes that just sort of handles that, not that Kubernetes doesn't have its own quirks and challenges to get it set up and running, but the whole point of that system is to deal with that, of give me a cluster of hosts and I will help you just load balance and deal with this stuff. >> So, Dan, final question for you. You've been in the industry a long time. You've seen the waves of innovation. You had a stellar career as Head of Engineering, VP of Engineering at Didja; VP of Engineering CTO, again, growing start ups and you're DevOps, you're lean and mean and growing, so that's cool. Not the big IT shop. But as the world changes, what are you most excited about now? Because you've seen the movie before. You've seen the old days, you saw the transition, you're seeing what cloud is bringing. I see you're on top of it here. What's exciting about this time right now? What are you excited about? >> Well, I think what's exciting is that you're seeing a lot more technologies that enable companies to scale and grow. I mean, the hardest thing in a company, like once you get past, geez, even like 30, 50 people, if your company is getting that big, you start to see the technology start to trip over. You really start to see the issues of, crap, we've got a spike and the whole service went down, or whatever that is, or a database failover. And so the fact that it's much easier and less effort to access technologies that allow you to scale, granted you have to make the effort to learn how to use them, but the fact that they exist versus go roll your own of everything, I think is exciting. And I think, on the same track, the availability of these scalable data stores like Aurora or Redshift or whatever, where you used to again just have to figure that out yourself, I mean, storage is the biggest pain for scaling. That's the first thing that dies horribly, right? So just the fact that things like those are available and managed for you, I think will help make a lot of companies be successful, where three, four, five years ago that wasn't available and you would have had to figure it out yourself and just falling over. >> And the upshot too is when you're a builder like yourself, when you're building stuff and deploying, you can do more with 20 people on a team. >> Oh yeah, yeah. >> I mean, just think about the productivity. I mean, think about what you do with 20 now with cloud that you'd have to ramp up to and fundraise for. Build out the data center, get the QA department, get the engineering. I mean, massive amounts of overhead and time loss. >> Well, you don't need 3 DBAs anymore, right? So absolutely. What we can do with a 10-person team today is massive compared to what we could do five years ago. >> All right, Dan Drew, CTO, Executive Vice President of Engineering at a completely called Didja. D-I-D-J-A-T-V, check him out. Hot startup doing a really amazing mission trying to bring over-the-air TV to local communities on an app with programming. Certainly guys, any CUBE content you want, feel free to use all of our free content. Happy to donate theCUBE content to the Didja mission. Thanks for coming on, I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Dan Drew here inside theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with a CUBE Conversation here in our Palo Alto Studios for theCUBE, thanks for watching. (majestic music)

>> From the Amazon Meeting Center, in downtown Seattle, it's theCUBE. Covering Imagine a Better World, a global education conference, sponsored by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown Seattle at AWS Imagine Education. About 900 people from 20 countries really coming together for the first ever AWS summit from public sector group, really focused just on education. We've got a little bit of a twist here, our next guest really coming from more of the artsy side of the house, which is always great to hear from. We've got Linda Drew, she's the Vice Chancellor, and Andy Cook, the Chief Operations Officer, both from Ravensbourne University in London. Welcome. >> We're really pleased >> Thank you. to be here, really excited. >> For the people that aren't familiar with Ravensbourne, give us a little overview of the school. >> We're in the center of London in Greenwich, which is right by the river. We have about two-and-a-half-thousand students and about 250 faculty. We specialize in design, media, and technology, and the interaction, and all that kind of stuff. >> Pretty fun space to be right now. >> Absolutely gorgeous place to be. >> There's so much talk about IT and the tech and IT in operations, but there's so much neat stuff happening really more on the creative side and in the arts. Leveraging technology in all different, new ways. >> Absolutely, it's kind of hand and glove, really. All the innovation that's happening is happening with the way that tech is disrupting what's happening in the creative workspace, and vice versa really. The two things are effecting each other. >> The channels of distribution now, being so open, there's no greater time to be an artist, a creator, because your path to publishing, your path to your audience is really, really short and direct, assuming you can get their attention. >> Absolutely, I think we recognize there's a huge opportunity there for us in terms of developing a competitive advantage in the sector using new, emerging technologies to forge a new path for the institution and help educate and bridge the skills gap for industry. >> What are the things you guys do, one of the classes is broadcast production, and we were talking to all of our guys behind the cameras that nobody can see, and that again is an evolving space and you guys, it's kind of an interesting play, on one hand you're talking about Shakespearian plays, on the other hand you're looking at the newest, latest, greatest way to get that out to consumers, to viewers, to schools, while training the people in the middle with the latest and greatest tools. You guys have started a AWS Elemental Experiment. I wonder if you can give us a little bit of color on that project. >> I can start, and I'll tell you about the impact that it has, and Andy might be able to follow up on some of the technical stuff. We've had a project going with the Royal Shakespeare Company in England, and it's one of their education programs where what we do is a three-way relationship between them, their plays being shot in Stratford-upon-Avon or in London, and one aspect of what happens is that what we do is host the live program that is shot in our TV production studio and jointly the recorded program and the live action is streamed to schools, several hundred schools at a time. Some of our recent shows have been reaching upwards of 85,000 school students at a time. >> 85,000? >> Absolutely. >> That is great reach. We'd been using the more traditional technology before and that was having some issues with school teachers and others that were saying they weren't getting a great service out of the live stream, and our students were a bit frustrated with what they were learning about the streaming technologies. Since having moved to AWS Elemental, that's really increased the satisfaction both of what our students are learning but also in what they're delivering in terms of the live streamed program and because they're streaming more than one thing, because we know that they're also streaming not just the content but also the British sign language. They're also streaming signed content as well. >> Great, great. Andy, you're on the hook for actually getting these systems up and working, right? >> (laughs) Well, I'm not sure about that, but I think Linda said it all, I think the previous stack of technology that we were using in this area were not reliable, we were getting a lot of jump outs with the streams, lots of complaints from our schools. This shift to Elemental has been transformational. Lots of really complimentary feedback from the schools that are taking part in this exercise. It's been really good. >> That's good, the story over and over with cloud basically anything is that the amount of scale and resources and expertise and hardware and software that Amazon can bring to bear on your behalf compared to what you can do on you own, it's just not the same and you're a relatively small school. It's that same scale delta whether it's a medium-size company, a big company, or multi-national. These guys have that massive scale across so many customers, and you get that delivered to your doorstep. >> As you well know, there's a massive shift taking place in the broadcast industry away from the, towards IP-driven technologies, so we see this as a real opportunity to develop our curriculum, add cloud technologies in to our existing courses and go on that journey away from the more traditional technologies to a cloud-based approach. >> I'm just curious if you've adopted cloud stuff in more your standard IT practices, or where are you on that journey? Or was the client satisfaction issue on these broadcasts what accelerated that adoption faster than your normal stuff? >> I think it's been quite closely related, in some ways. It's a bit kind of chicken and egg. We were already looking at ways of enhancing our infrastructure and this kind of stuff came along at the same time, so we just say how quickly can we get to move some of this stuff for our standard operational focus. >> I think most universities are in some sort of hybrid state running on premise services with some, putting their feet gently into the water of cloud technologies, but I think we're looking at really accelerating that journey towards AWS now for our infrastructure. >> I'm curious, were you here for the keynote this morning? >> Yeah, definitely. >> Did you see the Alexa movie with the kids in the dorm room? >> Yeah. >> Really exciting. Very exciting. >> I think one of the slides really sums up our journey and thoughts around working with Amazon. It's the IT transformation piece, then there's a adoption of machine learning in terms of improving the student experience, and then there's adopting cloud courses into our curriculum, so those three areas are really where we're looking to build a relationship with Amazon. >> It's interesting to see what defines this new education experience, because the kids have different expectations, they've all grown up with apps and mobile. To your point on the attention, if something's not working, they're used to flipping to another channel, switching to another input, so if it doesn't work, you only have their attention for a short period of time. I think it is really interesting to rethink what are the actual activities that define this new engagement and this new student experience while they're in your institution, and I thought that was a really pretty slick demo. >> That was a great example, really good demo. Some of the really exciting things that have come out of us adopting this technology thus far includes some students coming to us with ideas of setting up our very own television channel that we can broadcast on campus using this technology and a way of streaming it to students' phones and tablets so that they've got content about the university and it's activities on a regular basis. >> The ROI calculation for you to execute that when it's cloud-based is very, very different, right? >> Absolutely, yes >> It's pretty simple. (all laughing) Just buy a new rack of servers and the whole to-do. I'll give you the last word, what are you hoping to get out of these couple days here, what have you seen so far, any hallway conversations that are really getting your attention? >> Hopefully, not just a deeper relationship with AWS, but the traction to help us work towards innovating on creativity and technology into the future. >> Great. >> Brilliant. >> Andy goes I'm going to go with the Chancellor, smart man. (all laughing) >> Absolutely. >> Linda and Andy, thanks again for taking a few minutes-- >> Thank you very much. >> Absolute pleasure. and hope you enjoy the rest of your time here. >> Thank you. >> (mumbles) thank you. >> She's Linda, he's Andy, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at AWS Imagine Education in downtown Seattle. Thanks for watching. (electronic tones)

>> Robert: It feels like we're talking because it's boring TV. Tech people love tech. Consumers love the benefit of tech. No consumer opens up their iphone and says oh my gosh, I love the technology behind my iphone. >> What's it been like, being on the Shark Tank? >> You know filming is fun and hanging out is fun and it's fun to be a celebrity at first. Your head gets really big and you get really good tables at restaurants. >> Who says tech isn't got a little pizazz. >> Voiceover: More skin in the game. In charge of his destiny, Robert Herjavec is Cube Alumni. Live from Santa Clara, California, it's the Cube covering Open Networking Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Linux foundation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here with the Cube. We're at the open networking summit 2017 in Santa Clara, California. I think it's the fourth year of the conference. We've been coming for a long time. It's pretty amazing, a lot of transformation is happening as this project moves from the conversational to the testing to actual. A lot of deployments being talked about in the keynotes. So happy to have Scott Raynovich joining me again. >> Pleasure as always, thank you. >> Did you have a good night last night? >> Excellent. >> Alright, super. Super guest Drew Schulke, he is the vice president of converged networking at Dell EMC. Drew, Welcome. >> Thanks, thanks for having us. >> You've been busy at this show. You're doing panels, you're doing keynotes, they're working you. >> It's been a bit of a whirlwind going on thus far. Yeah, I had a keynote talk on economic and organizational impacts of open networking, which went really, really well. A lot of great questions from the audience, really insightful questions on that. Have met with folks like yourself, some other folks in the media, some analysts, talking to some customers which is always nice to have. We'll close it out tomorrow with one of the keynotes. A panel discussion on the role of open source and moving to 5G where I'll be participating with some folks from Intel and Ericsson. I'm looking forward to that, but yeah, definitely a whirlwind week. >> So before we get into some of the specifics, just your general impressions as to how this thing has evolved over time. Impressions of this show this year. >> Yeah, great question. I think the thing that struck me the most this year was the amount of customers coming in and actually talking about putting a lot of the things we've been talking about at this summit for several years into production environments and seeing results out of it. Some great keynotes last night by some folks, Amadeus in the travel industry and talking about their journey actually moving things into production, I thought was fabulous. Which gives people a vision of what really is possible and moving these out of the theoretical and here's the vision, the strategy into here's how you can actually get things done and getting into results. Ultimately, when you put things into production, that's how you ultimately learn and refine things over time. It's a great move forward for us. >> Awesome, so on the economics and organizational impact of open networking, your keynote. What are some of those really key economic drivers that you outlined in that conversation? >> Yeah, great question. You can kind of break it into a capex and an opex discussion. On the capex side, what we've seen is this whole open networking model is built on merchant silicon and the commoditization of hardware, which may sound like okay, that's a bad thing. Well no, it's really, really good because what it's doing is it's allowing all of us to take the benefits of huge volume and scale that's going on. From the biggest cloud providers down to the enterprise, as we move into this hardware model that's based upon merchant silicon and more standard network designs that are capable of supporting multiple OS's, we all benefit from the economies of scale that go in that. We can amortize R&D investments over a larger number of things. That's all goodness, so there's a huge tailwind on the capex side. On the opex side, as we start to disaggregate the network stack and focus on the individual layers, it creates a different operational model that allows for a high degree of automation. One of the things that we brought up in the session was contrasting a study from 2013 where the typical enterprise network admin was controlling about 300 ports. That was the breadth of support that they had back in 2013. That same year, Facebook came out and said an individual operator can support up to 20,000 servers. It's not like they're just super humans. What happened in there was a level of automation. That's a key ingredient of our open networking strategy, is driving that automation. That's where you get true economies of scale on the opex side. Those are the main points on that one. >> Jeff: Yeah, good ones. >> So Drew, one of the themes we've seen here is that the Linux foundation has done a good job of consolidating some of the open source technology and putting them in the same place so we can all track them and figure out what's going to happen. You just told us about Dell donating some of your code to the Linux foundation. >> Drew: Correct. >> Why don't you explain how you made that decision and what you think it's going to do for your customers. >> Yeah absolutely, as a little bit of context, what we see happening in terms of networking software is one, it's become decoupled from the hardware. That's already done right now. But even when we start to look at the software side, we think there's more disaggregation possible. We can peel apart the layers of what currently is a network operating system today and create a based operating system upon which several different companies can come in and put in what at that point becomes applications on top of it to do things like an L2, L3 stack, or to do MLAG, or tapping, or anything like that. It creates an ecosystem similar to what we had with servers 20 years ago, where I've got an operating system that basically keeps the box running. Then I've got applications which are really the magic on top of it. That's sort of the context. What we donated was that base OS. We've worked on something called OS 10. We have an open edition of it which you can go out to the web and download for free today and start playing around with it. It's an unmodified Linux kernel currently based on the Debian distribution which we believe will serve as a solid foundation for that evolving network and ecosystem going forward. Linux foundation agreed with that and accepted our donation of that to be the foundation of the open switch project, which was talked a little bit about at this particular summit as well. We couldn't be happier to be working with the Linux foundation on the open switch project. Look forward to getting even more of the ecosystem working on that with someone like the Linux foundation behind it to build a very, very capable stack which ultimately benefits all of our customers at the end. >> Where will we see this code go into? What types of products and what markets? Is it NFE for telecom? Is it cloud servers? Where are we going to see this stuff? >> The wonderful thing about it is the answer is all of the above. That's the flexibility of it. Think of it as this way, which is maybe you have a telecom network that's focused on something like MPLS. A company that has a lot of good IP around MPLS can then write an application that can run on that base operating system giving the customer the ability to pick that specific application without having to worry about dragging on an operating system and hardware that may not be what they want. That's the telecom use case. Maybe it's a big cloud provider that has some very specific needs around an L2, L3 stack. Maybe they even have their own IP around that that they want to build on top of this OS. We've really opened up the degrees of freedom in that space across all of those industries. I certainly think where we see the early adopters and starting from that OS 10 base solution today, will be more in the telco service provider and in the cloud space, just because of the level of scale and what it is that they can benefit out of this level of flexibility. >> Excellent. >> There had to be some detractors before you open sourced this. I'm just curious, the conversation in the room about should we or should we not open source this project and take it out to the Linux foundation? What was ultimately the decision that pushed it out the door? >> Yeah, we had been working with some other open source based projects for a couple of years already, so there was a comfort level internally. But what we saw, I think going on in the networking space, was heavily influenced by what we saw going on in the server space 20 years ago when client server hit the scene. That stack became massively disaggregated. The folks who tried to keep these things stitched together into monolithic silos ultimately weren't successful. Either had to change their strategy, or drifted off into the sunset. We certainly was influenced by that history and looking forward at what we saw happening in this space. I'd say as well looking at a lot of the innovation coming out from open source projects and start ups in this space as well, doing some new and exciting things in networking. There was a big keynote yesterday and the panel discussion where a venture capitalist starting talking about, hey networking's cool again. I couldn't agree more where we're seeing startups come in and do really interesting things really, really well. What we're trying to do is create a model where those startups don't have to develop their own operating system and develop their own hardware and then all the management tools that go on top of it. Let them focus at what they're good at, which is a certain piece of IP. Let us work through things like the open networking foundation to drive disaggregation of the stack, making them successful. >> It's an interesting way too to build your community almost indirectly if you will. It's not like you have to sign a bunch of partner agreements and you can't keep track of all these startups and all your alliance people running around. But by putting it into the open source, especially with the Linux foundation just automatically, you're exposed to all these different types of new companies and innovations and that exposure goes both ways. >> Drew: Absolutely. >> It's a really cool trend, where we're seeing these big companies donate parts of these things into this formal situation that is the Linux foundation so it has a home and a place to live and grow. >> Absolutely. >> I want to shift gears a little bit. Today's keynote is about 5G. A lot of talk about 5G, mobile world congress is all about 5G but some people saying wait, it's not here yet, it's far out. But clearly, I think the message this morning from Sandra and also on the Cube yesterday is it's coming, but you don't just turn it on one day. You got to put all the pieces in place. What's Dell EMC's perspective on 5G? Where are you guys on this journey? >> For us in terms of where we play at an infrastructure level in the data center, for us, the key step right now is to get to this model where we can decouple function from location. Which is what the telecoms and the mobile networks have been trying to do through things like NFV. What we've been trying to do is help them on that journey long before we even get to the point where 5G is knocking at the door. Working with them today to put in the right infrastructure capable of supporting highly virtualized workloads and also capable of supporting a variety of different software defined networking solutions. If you get those components right, you're setting yourself up with a really good foundation for 5G. If 5G gets here and you haven't decoupled function and location yet in terms of your infrastructure or strategy that's going to be a tough one. What we're trying to do is shepherd that along and move that as fast as we can right now. >> We got Dell EMC World coming up pretty soon right? >> That's right, I hope to see you guys there. >> Previews of this? What can we expect to see? >> It will be interesting. This is the first time that as a combined company we're doing this event in Vegas. We had a preview in October as a newly closed transaction. This will have the full force effect of the combined Dell EMC firm coming together to put on a great show. Looking forward to it. Huge venue, I know you guys play a prominent role there. I'm hoping to see you guys there as well. Yes, there will be lots of announcements. I'm not going to go get myself in trouble by saying what any of those are four weeks in advance of when that's going to happen. >> No hints or anything. >> No hints, but certainly on the networking side, you'll hear a couple of announcements from us in terms of new products that we'll be talking about and stay tuned. >> I'll ask you the softer way to get to the same answer, but I know you're not going to give me the answer, but looking forward, 2017 what are some of your priorities top of mind that you guys are working on where if we see you a year from now, you'll report back that here's what we did in 2017? >> Clearly, this OS 10 strategy that we have, building upon this base is going to be key for that. Continuing to support the donations that we've made through the Linux foundation and Open Switch. Bringing in additional partners to develop on top of that to get their IP ready to be able to take advantage of that will be a key focus for us. But as well, there's some key networking speed transitions coming up that you got to keep pace with from a road map perspective, so you'll probably hear some things about that. Then as well just thinking from a Dell EMC perspective, as we look at how our portfolio as a company is evolving, a big shift toward software defined storage models, converged infrastructure, hyperconverged infrastructure. On the networking side, we're clearly trying to do everything we can to position ourselves to be a value add in any of those solutions today. That'll be the hint of the areas you can expect to hear about in May. >> That's good, that's a good little hint. It's a month to the Dell EMC World again the first combined Dell EMC World >> Drew: In Vegas. >> Well, last year we had EMC World in Vegas and Dell EMC World, it got very confusing. Now there's just one. We're like is it the Vegas one or the Austin one? So now there's just one, it's easier to keep track. >> Drew: One forum to rule them all. >> We look forward to Michael coming on, we had him on at both as well as VM World and it's always great to get his take as well. So Drew, thanks for stopping by and we look forward to seeing you in about a month in Vegas. >> Likewise, thanks guys, great time. >> Drew Schulke, Scott Reynovitch, Jeff Rick. You're watching the Cube from Open Networking Summit 2017. Thanks for watching. We'll be back after this short break. (bright music)