(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Supercloud two where we're gathering a number of industry luminaries to discuss the future of cloud services. And we'll be focusing on various real world practitioners today, their challenges, their opportunities with an emphasis on data, self-service infrastructure and how organizations are evolving their data and cloud strategies to prepare for that next era of digital innovation. And we really believe that support for multiple cloud estates is a first step of any Supercloud. And in that regard Oracle surprise some folks with its Azure collaboration the Oracle database and exit database services. And to discuss the challenges of developing a mission critical Supercloud we welcome Juan Loaiza, who's the executive vice president of Mission Critical Database Technologies at Oracle. Juan, you're many time CUBE alums so welcome back to the show. Great to see you. >> Great to see you, and happy to be here with you. >> Yeah, thank you. So a lot of people felt that Oracle was resistant to multicloud strategies and preferred to really have everything run just on the Oracle cloud infrastructure, OCI and maybe that was a misperception maybe you guys were misunderstood or maybe you had to change your heart. Take us through the decision to support multiple cloud platforms >> Now we've supported multiple cloud platforms for many years, so I think that was probably a misperception. Oracle database, we partnered up with Amazon very early on in their cloud when they had kind of the the first cloud out there. And we had Oracle database running on their cloud. We have backup, we have a lot of stuff running. So, yeah, part of the philosophy of Oracle has always been we partner with every platform. We're very open we started with SQL and APIs. As we develop new technologies we push them into the SQL standard. So that's always been part of the ecosystem at Oracle. That's how we think we get an advantage by being more open. I think if we try to create this isolated little world it actually hurts us and hurts customers. So for us it's a win-win to be open across the clouds. >> So Supercloud is this concept that we put forth to describe a platform or some people think it's an architecture if you have an opinion, and I'd love to hear it but it provides a programmatically consistent set of services that hosted on heterogeneous cloud providers. And so we look at the Oracle database service for Azure as fitting within this definition. In your view, is this accurate? >> Yeah, I would broaden it. I'd see a little bit more than that. We just think that services should be available from everywhere, right? So, I mean, it's a little bit like if you go back to the pre-internet world, there was things like AOL and CompuServe and those were kind of islands. And if you were on AOL, you really didn't have access to anything on CompuServe and vice versa. And the cloud world has evolved a little bit like that. And we just think that's the wrong model. They shouldn't these clouds are part of the world and they need to be interconnected like all the rest of the world. It's been a long time with telephones internet, everything, everything's interconnected. Everything should work seamlessly together. So that's how we believe if you're running in one cloud and you're running let's say an application, one cloud you want to use a service from another cloud should be completely simple to do that. It shouldn't be, I can only use what's in AOL or CompuServe or whatever else. It should not be isolated. >> Well, we got a long way to go before that Nirvana exists but one example is the Oracle database service with Azure. So what exactly does that service provide? I'm interested in how consistent the service experience is across clouds. Did you create a purpose-built PaaS layer to achieve this common experience? Or is it off the shelf Terraform? Is there unique value in the PaaS layer? Let's dig into some of those questions. I know I just threw six at you. >> Yeah, I mean, so what this is, is what we're trying to do is very simple. Which is, for example, starting with the Oracle database we want to make that seamless to use from anywhere you're running. Whether it's on-prem, on some other cloud, anywhere else you should be able to seamlessly use the Oracle database and it should look like the internet. There's no friction. There's not a lot of hoops you got to jump just because you're trying to use a database that isn't local to you. So it's pretty straightforward. And in terms of things like Azure, it's not easy to do because all these clouds have a lot of kind of very unique technologies. So what we've done is at Oracle is we've said, "Okay we're going to make Oracle database look exactly like if it was running on Azure." That means we'll use the Azure security systems, the identity management systems, the networking, there's things like monitoring and management. So we'll push all these technologies. For example, when we have monitoring event or we have alerts we'll push those into the Azure console. So as a user, it looks to you exactly as if that Oracle database was running inside Azure. Also, the networking is a big challenge across these clouds. So we've basically made that whole thing seamless. So we create the super high bandwidth network between Azure and Oracle. We make sure that's extremely low latency, under two milliseconds round trip. It's all within the local metro region. So it's very fast, very high bandwidth, very low latency. And we take care establishing the links and making sure that it's secure and all that kind of stuff. So at a high level, it looks to you like the database is--even the look and feel of the screens. It's the Azure colors, it's the Azure buttons it's the Azure layout of the screens so it looks like you're running there and we take care of all the technical details underlying that which there's a lot which has taken a lot of work to make it work seamlessly. >> In the magic of that abstraction. Juan, does it happen at the PaaS layer? Could you take us inside that a little bit? Is there intelligence in there that helps you deal with latency or are there any kind of purpose-built functions for this service? >> You could think of it as... I mean it happens at a lot of different layers. It happens at the identity management layer, it happens at the networking layer, it happens at the database layer, it happens at the monitoring layer, at the management layer. So all those things have been integrated. So it's not one thing that you just go and do. You have to integrate all these different services together. You can access files in Azure from the Oracle database. Again, that's completely seamless. You, it's just like if it was local to our cloud you get your Azure files in your kind of S3 equivalent. So yeah, the, it's not one thing. There's a whole lot of pieces to the ecosystem. And what we've done is we've worked on each piece separately to make sure that it's completely seamless and transparent so you don't have to think about it, it just works. >> So you kind of answered my next question which is one of the technical hurdles. It sounds like the technical hurdles are that integration across the entire stack. That's the sort of architecture that you've built. What was the catalyst for this service? >> Yeah, the catalyst is just fulfilling our vision of an open cloud world. It's really like I said, Oracle, from the very beginning has been believed in open standards. Customers should be able to have choice customers should be able to use whatever they want from wherever they want. And we saw that, you know in the new world of cloud that had broken down everybody had their own authentication system management system, monitoring system networking system, configuration system. And it became very difficult. There was a lot of friction to using services across cloud. So we said, "Well, okay we can fix that." It's work, it's significant amount of work but we know how to do it and let's just go do it and make it easy for customers. >> So given Oracle is really your main focus is on mission critical workloads. You talked about this low latency network, I mean but you still have physical distances, so how are you managing that latency? What's the experience been for customers across Azure and OCI? >> Yeah, so it, it's a good point. I mean, latency can be an issue. So the good thing about clouds is we have a lot of cloud data centers. We have dozens and dozens of cloud data centers around the world. And Azure has dozens and dozens of cloud data centers. And in most cases, they're in the same metro region because there's kind of natural metro regions within each country that you want to put your cloud data centers in. So most of our data centers are actually very close to the Azure data centers. There's the kind of northern Virginia, there's London, there's Tokyo I mean, there's natural places where everybody puts their data centers Seoul et cetera. And so that's the real key. So that allows us to put a very high bandwidth and low latency network. The real problems with latency come when you're trying to go along physical distance. If you're trying to connect, you know across the Pacific or you know across the country or something like that, then you can get in trouble with latency within the same metro region. It's extremely fast. It tends to be around one, you know the highest two millisecond that's roundtrip through all the routers and connections and gateways and everything else. With everything taken into consideration, what we guarantee is it's always less than two millisecond which is a very low latency time. So that tends to not be a problem because it's extremely low latency. >> I was going to ask you less than two milliseconds. So, earlier in the program we had Jack Greenfield who runs architecture for Walmart, and he was explaining what we call their Supercloud, and it's runs across Azure, GCP, and they're on-prem. They have this thing called the triplet model. So my question to you is, are you in situations where you guaranteeing that less than two milliseconds do you have situations where you're bringing, you know Exadata Cloud, a customer on-prem to achieve that? Or is this just across clouds? >> Yeah, in this case, we're talking public cloud data center to public cloud data center. >> Oh okay. >> So add your public cloud data center to Oracle Public Cloud data center. They're in the same metro region. We set up the connections, we do all the technology to make it seamless. And from a customer point of view they don't really see the network. Also, remember that SQL is actually designed to have very low bandwidth and latency requirements. So it is a language. So you don't go to the database and say do this one little thing for me. You send it a SQL statement that can actually access lots of data while in the database. So the real latency requirement of a SQL database is within the database. So I need to access all that data fast. So I need very fast access to storage very fast access across node. That's what exit data gives you. But you send one request and that request can do a huge amount of work and then return one answer. And that's kind of the design point of SQL. So SQL is inherently low bandwidth requirements, it was used back in the eighties when we used to have 10 megabit networks and the the biggest companies in the world ran back then. So right now we're talking over hundred hundreds of gigabits. So it's really not much of a challenge. When you're designed to run on 10 megabit to say, okay I'm going to give you 10,000 times what you were designed for it's really, it's a pretty low hurdle jump. >> What about the deployment models? How do you handle this? Is it a single global instance across clouds or do you sort of instantiate in each you got exudate in Azure and exudates in OCI? What's the deployment model look like? >> It's pretty straightforward. So customer decides where they want to run their application and database. So there's natural places where people go. If you're in Tokyo, you're going to choose the local Tokyo data centers for both, you know Microsoft and Oracle. If you're in London, you're going to do that. If you're in California you're going to choose maybe San Jose, something like that. So a customer just chooses. We both have data centers in that metro region. So they create their service on Azure and then they go to our console which looks just like an Azure console and say all right create me a database. And then we choose the closest Oracle data center which is generally a few miles away, and then it it all gets created. So from a customer point of view, it's very straightforward. >> I'm always in awe about how simple you make things sound. All right what about security? You talked a little bit before about identity access how you sort of abstracting the Azure capabilities away so that you've simplified it for your customers but are there any other specific security things that you need to do? How much did you have to abstract the underlying primitives of Azure or OCI to present that common experience to customers? >> Yeah, so there's really two big things. One is the identity management. Like my name is X on Azure and I have this set of privileges. Oracle has its own identity management system, right? So what we didn't want is that you have to kind of like bridge these things yourself. It's a giant pain to do that. So we actually what we call federate across these identity managements. So you put your credentials into Azure and then they automatically get to use the exact same credentials and identity in the Oracle cloud. So again, you don't have to think about it, it just works. And then the second part is that the whole bridging the network. So within a cloud you generally have virtual network that's private to your company. And so at Oracle, we bridge the private network that you created in, for example, Azure to the private network that we create for you in Oracle. So it is still a private network without you having to do a whole bunch of work. So it's just like if you were in your own data center other people can't get into your network. So it's secured at the network level, it's secured at the identity management, and encryption level. And again we did a lot of work to make that seamless for customers and they don't have to worry about it because we did the work. That's really as simple as it gets. >> That's what's Supercloud's supposed to be all about. Alright, we were talking earlier about sort of the misperception around multicloud, your view of Open I think, which is you run the Oracle database, wherever the customer wants to run it. So you got this database service across OCI and Azure customers today, they run Oracle database in AWS. You got heat wave, MySQL, heat wave that you announced on AWS, Google touts a bare metal offering where you can run Oracle on GCP. Do you see a day when you extend an OCI Azure like situation across multiple clouds? Would that bring benefits to customers or will the world of database generally remain largely fenced with maybe a few exceptions like what you're doing with OCI and Azure? I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on egress fees as maybe one of the reasons that there is a barrier to this happening and why maybe these stove pipes, exist today and in the future. What are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, we're very open to working with everyone else out there. Like I said, we've always been, big believers in customers should have choice and you should be able to run wherever you want. So that's been kind of a founding principle of Oracle. We have the Azure, we did a partnership with them, we're open to doing other partnerships and you're going to see other things coming down the pipe on the topic of egress. Yeah, the large egress fees, it's pretty obvious what goes on with that. Various vendors like to have large egress fees because they want to keep things kind of locked into their cloud. So it's not a very customer friendly thing to do. And I think everybody recognizes that it's really trying to kind of course or put a lot of friction on moving data out of a particular cloud. And that's not what we do. We have very, very low egress fees. So we don't really do that and we don't think anybody else should do that. But I think customers at the end of the day, will win that battle. They're going to have to go back to their vendor and say, well I have choice in clouds and if you're going to impose these limits on me, maybe I'll make a different choice. So that's ultimately how these things get resolved. >> So do you think other cloud providers are going to take a page out of what you're doing with Azure and provide similar solutions? >> Yeah, well I think customers want, I mean, I've talked to a lot of customers, this is what they want, right? I mean, there's really no doubt no customer wants to be locked into a single ecosystem. There's nobody out there that wants that. And as the competition, when they start seeing an open ecosystem evolving they're going to be like, okay, I'd rather go there than the closed ecosystem, and that's going to put pressure on the closed ecosystems. So that's the nature of competition. That's what ultimately will tip the balance on these things. >> So Juan, even though you have this capability of distributing a workload across multiple clouds as in our Supercloud premise it's still something that's relatively new. It's a big decision that maybe many people might consider somewhat of a risk. So I'm curious who's driving the decisions for your initial customers? What do they want to get out of it? What's the decision point there? >> Yeah, I mean, this is generally driven by customers that want a specific technology in a cloud. I think the risk, I haven't seen a lot of people worry too much about the risk. Everybody involved in this is a very well known, very reputable firm. I mean, Oracle's been around for 40 years. We run most of the world's largest companies. I think customers understand we're not going to build a solution that's going to put their technology and their business at risk. And the same thing with Azure and others. So I don't see customers too worried about this is a risky move because it's really not. And you know, everybody understands networking at the end the day networking works. I mean, how does the internet work? It's a known quantity. It's not like it's some brand new invention. What we're really doing is breaking down the barriers to interconnecting things. Automating 'em, making 'em easy. So there's not a whole lot of risk here for customers. And like I said, every single customer in the world loves an open ecosystem. It's just not a question. If you go to a customer would you rather put your technology or your business to run on a closed ecosystem or an open system? It's kind of not even worth asking a question. It's a no-brainer. >> All right, so we got to go. My last question. What do you think of the term "Supercloud"? You think it'll stick? >> We'll see. There's a lot of terms out there and it's always fun to see which terms stick. It's a cool term. I like it, but the decision makers are actually the public, what sticks and what doesn't. It's very hard to predict. >> Yeah well, it's been a lot of fun having you on, Juan. Really appreciate your time and always good to see you. >> All right, Dave, thanks a lot. It's always fun to talk to you. >> You bet. All right, keep it right there. More Supercloud two content from theCUBE Community Dave Vellante for John Furrier. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>>Hey everyone. It's the cube live at VMware Explorer, 2022. We're at Mascone center and lovely, beautiful San Francisco. Dave Volante is with me, Lisa Martin. Beautiful weather here today. >>It is beautiful. I couldn't have missed this one because you know, the orange and the pure and VA right. Are history together. I had a, I had a switch sets. You >>Did. You were gonna have FOMO without a guest. Who's back. One of our longtime alumni V Stewart, VP of global technology alliances partners at pure storage one. It's great to have you back on the program, seeing you in 3d >>It's. It's so great to be here and we get a guest interviewer. So this >>Is >>Fantastic. Fly by. Fantastic. >>So talk to us, what's going on at pure. It's been a while since we had a chance to talk, >>Right. Well, well, besides the fact that it's great to see in person and to be back at a conference and see all of our customers, partners and prospects, you know, pure storage has just been on a tear just for your audience. Many, those who don't follow pure, right? We finished our last year with our Q4 being 41% year over year growth. And in the year, just under 2.2 billion, and then we come outta the gates this year, close our Q1 at 50% year over year, quarter quarterly growth. Have you ever seen a storage company or an infrastructure partner at 2 billion grow at that rate? >>Well, the thing was, was striking was that the acceleration of growth, because, you know, I mean, COVID, there were supply chain issues and you know, you saw that. And then, and we've seen this before at cloud companies, we see actually AWS as accelerated growth. So this is my premise here is you guys are actually becoming a cloud-like company building on top of, of infrastructure going from on-prem to cloud. But we're gonna talk about that. >>This is very much that super cloud premise. Well, >>It is. And, and, but I think it's it's one of the characteristics is you can actually, it, you know, we used to see companies, they go, they'd come out of escape velocity, and then they'd they'd growth would slow. I used to be at IDC. We'd see it. We'd see it. Okay. Down then it'd be single digits. You guys are seeing the opposite. >>It's it's not just our bookings. And by the way, I would be remiss if I didn't remind your audience that our second quarter earnings call is tomorrow. So we'll see how this philosophy and momentum keeps going. See, right. But besides the growth, right? All the external metrics around our business are increasing as well. So our net promoter score increased right at 85.2. We are the gold standard, not just in storage in infrastructure period. Like there's no one close to us, >>85. I mean, that's like, that's a, like apple, >>It's higher than apple than apple. It's apple higher than Tesla. It's higher than AWS shopping. And if you look in like our review of our products, flash rate is the leader in the gardener magic quadrant for, for storage array. It's been there for eight years. Port works is the leader in the GIGO OME radar for native Kubernetes storage three years in a row. Like just, it's great to be at a company that's hitting on all cylinders. You know, particularly at a time that's just got so much change going on in our >>Industry. Yeah. Tremendous amount of change. Talk about the, the VMware partnership from a momentum of velocity perspective what's going on there. And some of the things that you're accelerating. >>Absolutely. So VMware is, is the, the oldest or the longest tenured technology partner that we've had. I'm about to start my 10th year at pure storage. It feels like it was yesterday. When I joined, they were a, an Alliance partner before I joined. And so not to make that about me, but that's just like we built some of the key aspects around our first product, the flash array with VMware workloads in mind. And so we are a, a co-development partner. We've worked with them on a number of projects over years of, of late things that are top of mind is like the evolution of vials, the NV support for NVMe over fabric storage, more recently SRM support for automating Dr. With Viv a deployments, you know, and, and, and then our work around VMware ex extends to not just with VMware, they're really the catalyst for a lot of three way partnerships. So partnerships into our investments in data protection partners. Well, you gotta support V ADP for backing up the VMware space, our partnership within Nvidia, well, you gotta support NVA. I, so they can accelerate bringing those technologies into the enterprise. And so it's it, it's not just a, a, a, you know, unilateral partnership. It's a bidirectional piece because for a lot of customers, VMware's kind of like a touchpoint for managing the infrastructure. >>So how is that changing? Because you you've mentioned, you know, all the, the, the previous days, it was like, okay, let's get, make storage work. Let's do the integration. Let's do the hard work. It was kind of a race for the engineering teams to get there. All the storage companies would compete. And it was actually really good for the industry. Yeah, yeah. Right. Because it, it went from, you know, really complex, to much, much simpler. And now with the port works acquisition, it brings you closer to the whole DevOps scene. And you're seeing now VMware it's with its multi-cloud initiatives, really focusing on, you know, the applications and that, and that layer. So how does that dynamic evolve in terms of the partnership and, and where the focus is? >>So there's always in the last decade or so, right. There's always been some amount of overlap or competing with your partnerships, right. Something in their portfolios they're expanding maybe, or you expand you encroach on them. I think, I think two parts to how I would want to answer your question. The retrospective look V VMware is our number one ISV from a, a partner that we, we turn transactions with. The booking's growth that I shared with you, you could almost say is a direct reflection of how we're growing within that, that VMware marketplace. We are bringing a platform that I think customers feel services their workloads well today and gives them the flexibility of what might come in their cloud tomorrow. So you look at programs like our evergreen one subscription model, where you can deploy a consumption based subscription model. So very cloud-like only pay for what you use on-prem and turn that dial as you need to dial it into a, a cloud or, or multiple clouds. >>That's just one example. Looking forward, look, port works is probably the platform that VMware should have bought because when you look at today's story, right, when kit Culbert shared a, a cross cloud services, right, it was, it was the modern version of what VMware used to say, which was, here's a software defined data center. We're gonna standardize all your dissimilar hardware, another saying software defined management to standardize all your dissimilar clouds. We do that for Kubernetes. We talk about accelerating customers' adoption of Kubernetes by, by allowing developers, just to turn on an enable features, be its security, backup high availability, but we don't do it mono in a, you know, in a, in a homogeneous environment, we allow customers to do it heterogeneously so I can deploy VMware Tansu and connect it to Amazon EKS. I can switch one of those over to red head OpenShift, non disruptively, if I need to. >>Right? So as customers are going on this journey, particularly the enterprise customers, and they're not sure where they're going, we're giving them a platform that standardizes where they want to go. On-prem in the cloud and anywhere in between. And what's really interesting is our latest feature within the port works portfolio is called port works data services, and allows customers to deploy databases on demand. Like, install it, download the binaries. You have a cus there, you got a database, you got a database. You want Cassandra, you want Mongo, right? Yeah. You know, and, and for a lot of enterprise customers, who've kind of not, not know where to don't know where to start with port works. We found that to be a great place where they're like, I have this need side of my infrastructure. You can help me reduce cost time. Right. And deliver databases to teams. And that's how they kick off their Tansu journey. For example. >>It's interesting. So port works was the enabler you mentioned maybe VMware should above. Of course they had to get the value out of, out of pivotal. >>Understood. >>So, okay. Okay. So that, so how subsequent to the port works acquisition, how has it changed the way that you guys think about storage and how your customers are actually deploying and managing storage? >>Sure. So you touched base earlier on what was really great about the cloud and VMware was this evolution of simplifying storage technologies, usually operational functions, right? Making things simpler, more API driven, right. So they could be automated. I think what we're seeing customers do to today is first off, there's a tremendous rise in everyone wanting to do every customer, not every customer, a large portion of the customer bases, wanting to acquire technology on as OPEX. And it, I think it's really driven by like eliminate technical debt. I sign a short term agreement, our short, our shortest commitment's nine months. If we don't deliver around what we say, you walk away from us in nine months. Like you, you couldn't do that historically. Furthermore, I think customers are looking for the flexibility for our subscriptions, you know, more from between on-prem and cloud, as I shared earlier, is, is been a, a, a big driver in that space. >>And, and lastly, I would, would probably touch on our environmental and sustainability efforts. You saw this morning, Ragu in the keynote touch on what was it? Zero carbon consumption initiative, or ZCI my apologies to the veer folks. If I missed VO, you know, we've had, we've had sustainability into our products since day one. I don't know if you saw our inaugural ESG report that came out about 60 days ago, but the bottom line is, is, is our portfolio reduces the, the power directly consumed by storage race by up to 80%. And another aspect to look at is that 97% of all of the products that we sold in the last six years are still in the market today. They're not being put into, you know, into, to recycle bins and whatnot, pure storage's goal by the end of this decade is to further drive the efficiency of our platforms by another 66%. And so, you know, it's an ambitious goal, but we believe it's >>Important. Yeah. I was at HQ earlier this month, so I actually did see it. So, >>Yeah. And where is sustainability from a differentiation perspective, but also from a customer requirements perspective, I'm talking to a lot of customers that are putting that requirement when they're doing RFPs and whatnot on the vendors. >>I think we would like to all, and this is a free form VO comment here. So my apologies, but I think we'd all like to, to believe that we can reduce the energy consumption in the planet through these efforts. And in some ways maybe we can, what I fear in the technology space that I think we've all and, and many of your viewers have seen is there's always more tomorrow, right? There's more apps, more vendors, more offerings, more, more, more data to store. And so I think it's really just an imperative is you've gotta continue to be able to provide more services or store more data in this in yesterday's footprint tomorrow. A and part of the way they get to is through a sustainability effort, whether it's in chip design, you know, storage technologies, et cetera. And, and unfortunately it's, it's, it's something that organizations need to adopt today. And, and we've had a number of wins where customers have said, I thought I had to evacuate this data center. Your technology comes in and now it buys me more years of time in this in infrastructure. And so it can be very strategic to a lot of vendors who think their only option is like data center evacuation. >>So I don't want to, I, I don't wanna set you up, but I do want to have the super cloud conversation. And so let's go, and you, can you, you been around a long time, your, your technical, or you're more technical than I am, so we can at least sort of try to figure it out together when I first saw you guys. I think Lisa, so you and I were at, was it, when did you announce a block storage for AWS? The, was that 2019 >>Cloud block store? I believe block four years >>Ago. Okay. So 20 18, 20 18, 20 18. Okay. So we were there at, at accelerate at accelerate and I said, oh, that's interesting. So basically if I, if I go back there, it was, it was a hybrid model. You, you connecting your on-prem, you were, you were using, I think, priority E C two, you know, infrastructure to get high performance and connecting the two. And it was a singular experience yeah. Between on-prem and AWS in a pure customer saw pure. Right. Okay. So that was the first time I started to think about Supercloud. I mean, I think thought about it in different forms years ago, but that was the first actual instantiation. So my, my I'm interested in how that's evolved, how it's evolving, how it's going across clouds. Can you talk just conceptually about how that architecture is, is morphing? >>Sure. I just to set the expectations appropriately, right? We've got, we've got a lot of engineering work that that's going on right now. There's a bunch of stuff that I would love to share with you that I feel is right around the corner. And so hopefully we'll get across the line where we're at today, where we're at today. So the connective DNA of, of flash array, OnPrem cloud block store in the cloud, we can set up for, for, you know, what we call active. Dr. So, so again, customers are looking at these arrays is a, is a, is a pair that allows workloads to be put into the, put into the cloud or, or transferred between the cloud. That's kind of like your basic building, you know, blocking tackling 1 0 1. Like what do I do for Dr. Example, right? Or, or gimme an easy button to, to evacuate a data center where we've seen a, a lot of growth is around cloud block store and cloud block store really was released as like a software version of our hardware, Ray on-prem and it's been, and, and it hasn't been making the news, but it's been continually evolving. >>And so today the way you would look at cloud block store is, is really bringing enterprise data services to like EBS for, for AWS customers or to like, you know, is Azure premium disc for Azure users. And what do I mean by enterprise data services? It's, it's the, the, the way that large scale applications are managed, on-prem not just their performance and their avail availability considerations. How do I stage the, the development team, the sandbox team before they patch? You know, what's my cyber protection, not just data protection, how, how am I protected from a cyber hack? We bring all those capabilities to those storage platforms. And the, the best result is because of our data reduction technologies, which was critical in reducing the cost of flash 10 years ago, reduces the cost of the cloud by 50% or more and pays for the, for pays more than pays for our software of cloud block store to enable these enterprise data services, to give all these rapid capabilities like instant database, clones, instant, you know, recovery from cyber tech, things of that nature. >>Do customers. We heard today that cloud chaos are, are customers saying so, okay, you can run an Azure, you can run an AWS fine. Are customers saying, Hey, we want to connect those islands. Are you hearing that from customers or is it still sort of still too early? >>I think it's still too early. It doesn't mean we don't have customers who are very much in let's buy, let me buy some software that will monitor the price of my cloud. And I might move stuff around, but there's also a cost to moving, right? The, the egress charges can add up, particularly if you're at scale. So I don't know how much I seen. And even through the cloud days, how much I saw the, the notion of workloads moving, like kind of in the early days, like VMO, we thought there might be like a, is there gonna be a fall of the moon computing, you know, surge here, like, you know, have your workload run where power costs are lower. We didn't really see that coming to fruition. So I think there is a, is a desire for customers to have standardization because they gain the benefits of that from an operational perspective. Right. Whether they put that in motion to move workloads back and forth. I think >>So let's say, let's say to be determined, let let's say they let's say they don't move them because your point you knows too expensive, but, but, but, but you just, I think touched on it is they do want some kind of standard in terms of the workflow. Yep. You you're saying you're, you're starting to see demand >>Standard operating practices. Okay. >>Yeah. SOPs. And if they're, if they're big into pure, why wouldn't they want that? If assuming they have, you know, multiple clouds, which a lot of customers do. >>I, I, I I'll assure with you one thing that the going back to like basic primitives and I touched it touched on it a minute ago with data reduction. You have customers look at their, their storage bills in the cloud and say, we're gonna reduce that by half or more. You have a conversation >>Because they can bring your stack yeah. Into the cloud. And it's got more maturity than what you'd find from a cloud company, cloud >>Vendor. Yeah. Just data. Reduction's not part of block storage today in the cloud. So we've got an advantage there that we, we bring to bear. Yeah. >>So here we are at, at VMware Explorer, the first one of this name, and I love the theme, the center of the multi-cloud universe. Doesn't that sound like a Marvel movie. I feel like there should be superheroes walking around here. At some point >>We got Mr. Fantastic. Right here. We do >>Gone for, I dunno it >>Is. But a lot of, a lot of news this morning in the keynote, you were in the keynote, what are some of the things that you're hearing from VMware and what excites you about this continued evolution of the partnership with pure >>Yeah. Great point. So I, I think I touched on the, the two things that really caught my attention. Obviously, you know, we've got a lot of investment in V realize it was now kind of rebranded as ay, that, you know, I think we're really eager to see if we can help drive that consumption a bit higher, cuz we believe that plays into our favor as a vendor. We've we've we have over a hundred templates for the area platform right now to, you know, automation templates, whether it's, you know, levels set your platform, you know, automatically move workloads, deploy on demand. Like just so, so again, I think the focus there is very exciting for us, obviously when they've got a new release, like vSphere eight, that's gonna drive a lot of channel behaviors. So we've gotta get our, you know, we're a hundred percent channel company. And so we've gotta go get our channel ready because with about half of the updates of vSphere is, is hardware refresh. And so, you know, we've gotta be, be prepared for that. So, you know, some of the excitements about just being how to find more points in the market to do more business together. >>All right. Exciting cover the grounds. Right. I mean, so, okay. You guys announce earnings tomorrow, so we can't obviously quiet period, but of course you're not gonna divulge that anyway. So we'll be looking for that. What other catalysts are out there that we should be paying attention to? You know, we got, we got reinvent coming up in yep. In November, you guys are obviously gonna be there in, in a big way. Accelerate was back this year. How was accelerate >>Accelerate in was in Los Angeles this year? Mm. We had great weather. It was a phenomenal venue, great event, great partner event to kick it off. We happened to, to share the facility with the president and a bunch of international delegates. So that did make for a little bit of some logistic securities. >>It was like the summit of the Americas. I, I believe I'm recalling that correctly, but it was fantastic. Right. You, you get, you get to bring the customers out. You get to put a bunch of the engineers on display for the products that we're building. You know, one of the high, you know, two of the highlights there were, we, we announced our new flash blade S so, you know, higher, more performant, more scalable version of our, our scale and object and file platform with that. We also announced the, the next generation of our a I R I, which is our AI ready, AI ready infrastructure within video. So think of it like converged infrastructure for AI workloads. We're seeing tremendous growth in that unstructured space. And so, you know, we obviously pure was funded around block storage, a lot around virtual machines. The data growth is in unstructured, right? >>We're just seeing, we're seeing, you know, just tons of machine learning, you know, opportunities, a lot of opportunities, whether we're looking at health, life sciences, genome sequencing, medical imaging, we're seeing a lot of, of velocity in the federal space. You know, things, I can't talk about a lot of velocity in the automotive space. And so just, you know, from a completeness of platform, you know, flat flash blade is, is really addressing a need really kind of changing the market from NAS as like tier two storage or object is tier three to like both as a tier one performance candidate. And now you see applications that are supporting running on top of object, right? All your analytics platforms are on an object today, Absolut. So it's a, it's a whole new world. >>Awesome. And Pierce also what I see on the website, a tech Fest going on, you guys are gonna be in Seoul, Mexico city in Singapore in the next week alone. So customers get the chance to be able to in person talk with those execs once again. >>Yeah. We've been doing the accelerate tech tech fests, sorry about that around the globe. And if one of those align with your schedule, or you can free your schedule to join us, I would encourage you. The whole list of events dates are on pure storage.com. >>I'm looking at it right now. Vaon thank you so much for joining Dave and me. I got to sit between two dapper dudes, great conversation about what's going on at pure pure with VMware better together and the, and the CATA, the cat catalysis that's going on on both sides. I think that's an actual word I should. Now I have a degree biology for Vaughn Stewart and Dave Valante I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from VMware Explorer, 22. We'll be right back with our next guest. So keep it here.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Well, hello everybody and welcome again to theCUBE. We continue our initiative here at IBM Think and now we're joined by two distinguished guests who are really going the extra mile for us, I might say. Here we are in the States at a very reasonable hour, in Korea, it's a little later in the evening so we certainly appreciate their time and their patience here. We're joined by Mr. Khee-Hong Song, who is the CEO and President of IBM Korea and Mr. Jung Sik Suh, who is the CEO of Hyundai AutoEver, which is an IT service company affiliated with the Hyundai Motor Group. And gentlemen (greeting in Korean) Thank you for joining this. We appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for inviting us. >> Hi. >> Yes, hi, very good to see you there. And I hope I didn't do the greeting injustice there. First off, Khee, I'll start with you. Let's talk about first off, kind of this digital transformation that transpires not only here in the United States, but of course is global. And certainly, with an IT advanced company like Korea, give us just really kind of a calibration, where are you in terms of this transformation in Korea with regard to digital? >> A lot of people are interested in the post-COVID world and how it is going to look like. What changes this pandemic will bring. The Korean government is really focusing on growing the digital sector. Taking this advantage, and taking this opportunity as a chance to really upgrade the entire IT system of the nation. So for example, like a Korean economy had been contracted by -1% and industry players also faced difficulties. For example, discount stores are -20% Y2Y. department stores are lost 30% of their revenue. But the government is injecting money to really change the game, leveraging the digital technology. >> Yeah, and you mentioned COVID, and obviously that's had a global impact. Not only in your operations here in the United States certainly, but Africa in Europe, and certainly in Asia as we talked about. Can you go just a little bit deeper on that in terms of what those impacts have been and maybe a little more specificity on coming out of that. You mentioned the economic impacts that Korea is currently suffering, but looking for a bounce back, looking for a rebound with the government. Maybe a little more specifics about the impact of COVID. And then Mr. Sung, I'll turn to you for that as well. First off, Khee, if you will. >> Okay, in an effort to recover from COVID-19 economic recession, Korean government announced Digital New Deal, which is to lay a foundation for digital economy that will spur economic growth and innovation. Now the policy aims to create a new digital economy, which is underpinned by new technologies such as 5G, big data and artificial intelligence. According to IDC research, 55% of Korean companies have already overcome the economic downturn and are moving toward the growth in next normal. They have been very active in making investments to become the enterprise of the future. And this is higher than global average of 37% in terms of recovery rate. This indicates that leading Korean companies are quickly preparing for the next, even in the face of a crisis. >> Jung, We've been hearing from Khee talking about the digital and certainly the impacts of COVID. And I assume that at Hyundai, you have had to deal with this certainly, this impact and are now coming out the other end, some very positive news from numbers we're hearing from Khee. If you could talk about though, maybe from your perspective in terms of that impact. And then, what kind of a rebound do you see or kind of positive uptick do you see in terms of digital in your business, say, in the next 12 to 18 months? >> I think the 12 to 18 months, we are reinforcing the digitalization, not just the working environment, but also others, especially for in terms of sales. Until now most of the B2C sales changed to digital or the internet environment, but unfortunately, car manufacturing OEM companies are not too ready for the e-commerce environment. But Hyundai is very actively, and proactively, and preemptively starting the e-commerce. So I think, next to 12 to 18 month, two-digit percent of our sales are will be fulfilled by internet-based. I mean, we'll have to face the most biggest and most challenging but possible change after COVID. >> Yeah, what's driving that then, is it just that people are more likely to want to be at home whether it's as a consumer or whether it's your workforce, whatever the case may be, but you're talking about this kind of going from a physical world to a more digital-based world as I'm hearing you describe it. Is that accurate? >> Yes. So we are the digital world, from just communicate with customer, but also our internal operation. Like the manufacturing environment and also the sales environment, et cetera. >> And Khee, if you would talk about maybe how this is impacting your business and just in terms of IBM in general. Not just with Hyundai, but I'm sure you support a lot of healthcare initiatives, a lot of other e-commerce initiatives and what have you, What's kind of the bottom line impact there for you right now in terms of this massive shift over to digital? >> Well, in IBM, our goal is to work with industry clients and technology partners to accelerate this transformation through automation, transition to hybrid cloud, and help our clients to really gain some benefits from their change. So one area I can talk about is automation. We see increasing requirements from our clients on automation for operational excellence, amid the economic downturn, and for hygiene purposes as well. So Seoul Asan Hospital is one of the leading hospitals in Korea and has the largest number of beds. Asan hospital and IBM worked together to develop a bed allocation automation system based on design thinking, workshop and garage method. The automation system considers a patient's specific preferences, surgery schedule, customized treatment for each patient, and various reservation status in each department. The result was outstanding. The hospital could reduce the bed assignment lead time from 20 minutes to seven minutes with a 0% error rate. And currently, more than a hundred hospitalization registration procedures are being processed every day without human intervention. And patient satisfaction and productivity of medical staff have improved significantly. That is just one great example of automation which is taking place in many other industries as well. Second is transformation to cloud. A large credit card company in Korea has chosen IBM as a partner to convert enterprise wide systems including the most complex account system to a managed private cloud using cloud technology from IBM and Red Hat. >> Khee, you talked about these key factors, if you will, about cloud transformation and different kinds of operational efficiencies and all these very fundamental. But very important factors to consider, when you're talking to your clients right now, what are their, I wouldn't say hesitations, but I guess maybe their challenges in deciding what tasks will go where and to what degree they're good with the cloud environment, to what degree they want it still on prem, to what, where the hybrid comes into play. I mean, these are all are fairly crucial decisions that your clients are making. >> Well, I think the barrier to any decision, like quick decision or sort of complete understanding is the technology itself is changing very quickly. I mean, last year, two years ago, versus now, when all technology companies, should we say something different. And that is not because it changed the position itself. The technology itself changed, and technology companies are responding to the trend. So that's why some clients get confused, and that confusion slows down the adaption of digital technology. But as I mentioned earlier, this pandemic situation, I'm pretty sure they're, like Mr. Sung can talk about some changes in Hyundai motors. Many companies realized that doing nothing or slowing down is not the best answer in this environment. And they are now proactively embracing those changes. >> So Jung, if you would then follow up on that, I would like to hear from you about Hyundai and the factors that you've considered in your digital decision making in terms of workloads, and capacities, and just where you house information, where you house your data, where you process it. What are some of those factors that you have thought about and then maybe going forward, how much more are you going to do? What are you considering right now in terms of future transformations? >> I think the other, our competitor, the other OEMs also think like that the car itself should be changed to digital. It means that, currently, the software portion of the car is just a seven to 10% of total our, the procurement. But it'll be changed to 20 to 30% in five years. It means that some portion will be to increased by three times There is a one our research changed. The other one is that kind of a software mostly located and not just in the car, which means that car is just a software edge activity. It means that just that the input and output, or some real-time transaction, or other computation and calculation analysis and decision could be the car cloud. Therefore, the cloud is main party of the car software. And also the car is it's just to edge. We have edge cloud and main cloud. It will be occurred just to within just several years. First, really, Hyundai has currently more than 40% of the car is connected in listening. And also cumulatively, we are connected by around the four million car in the word. It will be changed to 10 million car would be connected within one years. >> So 10 million Hyundai cars will be connected to cloud generating information and also- >> Yes, collecting information. And we are ready for the OTA, which means over-the-air software update for the 10 million car within one years. And also, it will double up year by year. >> Okay. >> Which means that all of the car, all the operated by cloud. >> Okay. >> And cars, it says to input and output an edge activities, therefore car is on cloud. >> Okay. >> John: Right? Khee: Interesting. >> Jung: That is the major driver for our digital transformation. >> And if you would, just what role is IBM having that? You're talking about a massive increase of 10 million cars is a very impressive number. >> And the data, the 10 million cars are producing are will be enormous. So IBM's role is actually helping clients in this kind of situation. To help those companies collect data and then like a seamless communication with the cloud. So that at the real time, the 10 million cars get the information timely. And also, like all those cars are communicating with each other that is made possible upon a hybrid cloud platform. And I think that is IBM's contribution to Hyundai Motors. Not just Hyundai Motors, but industries who have similar challenges and desires. >> One more thing, lately, IBM helped us our all IT operation in US and Europe, which composed of our 50% of our revenue come from. Therefore it means that dozens of billion of revenue operation is located in US and Europe. All over the US, Europe IT operation conducted by the IBM India and orchestrated by IBM Korean people. >> So it's amazing as Mr. Suh mentioned, IBM Korea is leading the project. All the service delivery is done in India leveraging IBM India. And we are serving Hyundai motors in the United States and Europe. So it's a truly a global IT operation environment. And that is made possible based upon IBM's cloud technology. >> Well, your summary was spot on. I couldn't say it any better, Khee. Thank you for that. Jung, thank you as well. Talking about this impressive global impact and really partnership that Hyundai is taking with IBM in the several continents. And making it work for millions of consumers around the world. Thank you both for your time today. I appreciate it. >> Khee: Thank you very much, John. >> Jung: Thank you. >> All right, we've been talking about Korea as an IT power country for the IBM perspective. And certainly, using Hyundai is a beautiful example of just how this partnership is working and growing, and providing great service for consumers at the end of the day. You've been watching "theCube" and IBM Think. (upbeat theme music) (upbeat theme music) (humming)

(bright theme music) (humming) >> From around the globe, it's "theCUBE" with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Well, hello everybody and welcome again to "theCUBE." We'll continue our initiative here at IBM Think and now we're joined by two distinguished guests who are really going the extra mile for us, I might say. Here we are in the States at a very reasonable hour, in Korea, it's a little later in the evening so we certainly appreciate their time and their patience here. We're joined by Mr. Ki-Hong Song, who is the CEO and President of IBM Korea and Mr. Jung Sik Suh, who is the CEO of Hyundai AutoEver, which is an IT service company affiliated with the Hyundai Motor Group. And gentlemen (speaking foreign language) Thank you for joining this. We appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for inviting us. >> Hi. >> Yes, hi, very good to see you there. And I hope I didn't do the greeting injustice there. First off, Ki, I'll start with you. Let's talk about first off, kind of this digital transformation that transpires not only here in the United States, but of course is global. And certainly, with an IT advanced company like Korea, give us just really kind of a calibration, where are you in terms of this transformation in Korea with regard to digital? >> A lot of people are interested in the post-COVID world and how it is going to look like. What changes this pandemic will bring. The Korean government is really focusing on growing the digital sector. Taking this advantage, and taking this opportunity as a chance to really upgrade the entire IT system of the nation. So for example, like a Korean economy had been contracted by -1% and industry players also faced difficulties. For example, discount stores are -20% Y2Y. department stores are lost 30% of their revenue. But the government is injecting money to really change the game, leveraging the digital technology. >> Yeah, and you mentioned COVID, and obviously that's had a global impact. Not only in your operations here in the United States certainly, but Africa in Europe, and certainly in Asia as we talked about. Can you go just a little bit deeper on that in terms of what those impacts have been and maybe a little more specificity on coming out of that. You mentioned the economic impacts that Korea is currently suffering, but looking for a bounce back, looking for a rebound with the government. Maybe a little more specifics about the impact of COVID. And then Mr. Sung, I'll turn to you for that as well. First off, Ki, if you will. >> Okay, in an effort to recover from COVID-19 economic recession, Korean government announced Digital New Deal, which is to lay a foundation for digital economy that will spur economic growth and innovation. Now the policy aims to create a new digital economy, which is underpinned by new technologies such as 5G, big data and artificial intelligence. According to IDC research, 55% of Korean companies have already overcome the economic downturn and are moving toward the growth in next normal. They have been very active in making investments to become the enterprise of the future. And this is higher than global average of 37% in terms of recovery rate. This indicates that leading Korean companies are quickly preparing for the next, even in the face of a crisis. >> Jung, We've been hearing from Ki talking about the digital and certainly the impacts of COVID. And I assume that at Hyundai, you have had to deal with this certainly, this impact and are now coming out the other end, some very positive news from numbers we're hearing from Ki. If you could talk about though, maybe from your perspective in terms of that impact. And then, what kind of a rebound do you see or kind of positive uptick do you see in terms of digital in your business, say, in the next 12 to 18 months? >> I think in this 12 to 18 months, we are reinforce the digitalization, not just the working environment, but also others take this, especially for in terms of sales. Until now most of the B2C sales changed to digital or the internet environment, but unfortunately, car manufacturing OEM companies are not too ready for the e-commerce environment. But Hyundai is very actively, and proactively, and preemptively started the e-commerce. So I think, next to 12 to 18 month, two-digit percent of our sales are will be fulfilled by internet-based. I mean, we'll have to face the most biggest and most challenging but possible change after COVID. >> Yeah, what's driving that then, is it just that people are more likely to want to be at home whether it's as a consumer or whether it's your workforce, whatever the case may be, but you're talking about this kind of going from a physical world to a more digital-based world as I'm hearing you describe it. Is that accurate? >> Yes. So we are the digital world, from just communicate with customer, but also our internal operation. Like the manufacturing environment and also the sales environment, et cetera. >> And Ki, if you would talk about maybe how this is impacting your business and just in terms of IBM in general. Not just with Hyundai, but I'm sure you support a lot of healthcare initiatives, a lot of other e-commerce initiatives and what have you, What's kind of the bottom line impact there for you right now in terms of this massive shift over to digital? >> We'll, in IBM, our goal is to work with industry clients and technology partners to accelerate this transformation through automation, transition to hybrid cloud, and help our clients to really gain some benefits from their change. So one area I can talk about is automation. We see increasing requirements from our clients on automation for operational excellence, Meet the economic downturn, and for hygiene purposes as well. So Seoul Asan Hospital is one of the leading hospitals in Korea and has the largest number of beds. Asan hospital and IBM worked together to develop a better allocation automation system based on design thinking, workshop and garage method. The automation system considers a patient's specific preferences, surgery schedule, customized treatment for each patient, and various reservation status in each department. The result was outstanding. The hospital could reduce the bed assignment lead time from 20 minutes to seven minutes with a 0% error rate. And currently, more than hundred hospitalization registration procedures are being processed every day without human intervention. And patient satisfaction and productivity of medical staff have improved significantly. That is just one great example of automation which is taking place in many other industries as well. Second is transformation to cloud. A large credit card company in Korea has chosen IBM as a partner to convert enterprise wide systems including the most complex account system to a managed private cloud using cloud technology from IBM and Red Hat. >> Ki, you talked about these key factors, if you will, about cloud transformation and different kinds of operational efficiencies and all these very fundamental. But very important factors to consider, when you're talking to your clients right now, what are their, I wouldn't say hesitations, but I guess maybe their challenges in deciding what tasks will go where and to what degree they're good with the cloud environment, to what degree they want it still on prem, to what, where the hybrid comes into play. I mean, these are all are fairly crucial decisions that your clients are making. >> Well, I think the barrier to any decision, like quick decision or sort of complete understanding is the technology itself is changing very quickly. I mean, last year, two years ago, versus now, when all technology companies, should we say something different. And that is not because it changed the position itself. The technology itself changed, and technology companies are responding to the trend. So that's why some clients get confused, and that confusion slows down the adaption of digital technology. But as I mentioned earlier, this pandemic situation, I'm pretty sure they're, like Mr. Sung can talk about some changes in Hyundai motors. Many companies realized that doing nothing or slowing down is not the best answer in this environment. And they are now proactively embracing those changes. >> So Jung, if you would then follow up on that, I would like to hear from you about Hyundai and the factors that you've considered in your digital decision making in terms of workloads, and capacities, and just where you house information, where you house your data, where you process it. What are some of those factors that you have thought about and then maybe going forward, how much more are you going to do? What are you considering right now in terms of future transformations? >> I think the other, our competitor, the other OEMs also think like that the car itself should be changed to digital. It means that, currently, the software portion of the car is just a seven to 10% of total our, the procurement. But it'll be changed to 20 to 30% in five years. It means that some portion will be to increased by three times There is a one our research changed. The other one is that kind of a software mostly located and not just in the car, which means that car is just a software edge activity. It means that just that the input and output, or some real-time transaction, or other computation and calculation analysis and decision could be the car cloud. Therefore, the cloud is main party of the car software. And also the car is it's just to edge. We have edge cloud and main cloud. It will be occurred just to within just several years. First, really, Hyundai has currently more than 40% of the car is connected in listening. And also cumulatively, we are connected by around the four million car in the word. It will be changed to 10 million car would be connected within one years. >> So 10 million Hyundai cars will be connected to cloud generating information and also- >> Yes, collecting information. And we are ready for the OTA, which means over-the-air software update for the 10 million car within one years. And also, it will double up year by year. >> Okay. >> Which means that all of the car, all the operated by cloud. >> Okay. >> And cars, it says to input and output an edge activities, therefore car is on cloud. >> Okay. >> Right? >> Interesting. >> That is the major driver for our digital transformation. >> And if you would, just what role is IBM having that? You're talking about a massive increase of 10 million cars is a very impressive number. >> And the data, the 10 million cars are producing are will be enormous. So IBM's role is actually helping clients in this kind of situation. To help those companies collect data and then like a seamless communication with the cloud. So that at the real time, the 10 million cars get the information timely. And also, like all those cars are communicating with each other that is made possible upon a hybrid cloud platform. And I think that is IBM's contribution to Hyundai Motors. Not just Hyundai Motors, but industries who have similar challenges and desires. >> One more thing, lately, IBM helped us our all IT operation in US and Europe, which composed of our 50% of our revenue come from. Therefore it means that dozens of billion of revenue operation is located in US and Europe. All over the US, Europe IT operation conducted by the IBM India and orchestrated by IBM Korean people. >> So it's amazing as Mr. Suh mentioned, IBM Korea is leading the project. All the service delivery is done in India leveraging IBM India. And we are serving Hyundai motors in the United States and Europe. So it's a truly a global IT operation environment. And that is made possible based upon IBM's cloud technology. >> Well, your summary was spot on. I couldn't say it any better, Ki. Thank you for that. Jung, thank you as well. Talking about this impressive global impact and really partnership that Hyundai is taking with IBM in the several continents. And making it work for millions of consumers around the world. Thank you both for your time today. I appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, John. >> Thank you. >> All right, we've been talking about Korea as an IT power country for the IBM perspective. And certainly, using Hyundai is a beautiful example of just how this partnership is working and growing, and providing great service for consumers at the end of the day. You've been watching "theCube" and IBM Think. (upbeat theme music) (upbeat theme music) (humming)

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE! With digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Well, hello everybody. and welcome again to theCUBE. We continue our initiative here of IBM Think. and now we're joined by two distinguished guests who are really going the extra mile for us, I might say. Here we are in the States at a very reasonable hour, in Korea, it's a little later in the evening so we certainly appreciate their time and their patience here. We're joined by Mr. Kheehong Song, who is the CEO and president of IBM Korea and Mr. Jung-Sik Suh, who is the CEO of Hyundai AutoEver which is an IT service company affiliated with the Hyundai Motor Group. Gentlemen, (speaks in foreign language) thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, hi. >> Hi, it's very good to see you there. And I hope I didn't do the greeting injustice there. First off, Khee I'll start with you. Let's talk about first off, kind of this digital transformation that transpires not only here in the United States, but of course, is global. And certainly with an IT advanced company like Korea, give us just really kind of a calibration, where are you in terms of this transformation in Korea with regard to digital? >> A lot of people are interested in the post COVID world and how it is going to look like, what changes this pandemic will bring. The Korean government is really focusing on growing the digital sector, taking this advantage. And taking this opportunity here as a chance to really upgrade the entire IT system of the nation. So for example, like a Korean economy had been contracted by negative 1%, and industry players also faced difficulties. For example, discount stores, negative 20% Y2Y department stores lost 30% of their revenue, but the government is injecting money to really change the game, leveraging the digital technology. >> Yeah, and you mentioned COVID. And obviously that's had a global impact, you know, not only in your operations here in the United States, certainly, but Africa, in Europe and certainly in Asia as we talked about. Can you go just a little bit deeper on that in terms of what those impacts have been, and maybe a little more specificity on coming out of that? You mentioned the economic impacts that Korea is currently suffering, but looking for a bounce back, looking for a rebound with the government, maybe a little more specifics about the impact of COVID. And then Mr. Song, I'm going to turn to you for that as well. First off, Khee, if you would. >> Okay. In an effort to recover from COVID-19 economic recession, Korean government announced digital new deal which is to lay a foundation for a digital economy that will spur economic growth and innovation. Now, the policy aims to create a new digital economy which is underpinned by new technologies, such as 5G, big data and artificial intelligence. According to IDC research, 55% of Korean companies have already overcome the economic downturn and are moving toward across the next normal. They have been very active in making investments to become the enterprise of the future. And this is higher than global average of 37%, in terms of recovery rate. This indicates that leading Korean companies are quickly preparing for the next even in the face of a crisis. >> Jung, we've been hearing from Khee talking about the digital and certainly the impacts of COVID. And I've assumed that at Hyundai, you know, you have had to deal with this, certainly this impact, and are not coming out the other end some very positive news from numbers we're hearing from Khee. If you could talk about though, maybe what from your perspective, in terms of that impact and then what kind of a rebound do you see, or kind of positive uptake do you see in terms of digital and your business say in the next 12 to 18 months? >> I think the next 12 to 18 months, the reinforcers of digitalization, not just the working environment, but also other respect especially for the... in terms of sales. You know, until now, most of the B2C Series changed to digital or the internet environment, but unfortunately, car manufacturing OEM companies aren't ready for the E-commerce environment. But Hyundai is very actively and proactively, and preemptively started at E-commerce. So I think next 12 to 18 month, two digit percent of our sales, I mean fulfilled by internet (mumbles), I mean the objective is the most biggest and most challenging, but possible changing after COVID. >> Yeah, what's driving that and then, it's just that people are more likely to want to be at home whether it's as a consumer or whether it's your workforce whatever the case may be, but you're talking about this kind of going from a physical world to a more digital-based world, as I'm hearing you describe that, is that accurate? >> Yes. So we are, the digital world, from just communicate with the customer, but also the, our internal operation, you know, like the manufacturing environment, and also the sales environment, et cetera. >> And Khee, if you would talk about maybe how this is impacting your business and just in terms of IBM in general, not just with Hyundai, but I'm sure you support a lot of healthcare initiatives, a lot of other E-commerce initiatives and what have you. What's kind of the bottom line impact there for you right now, in terms of this massive shift over to digital? >> In IBM, our goal is to work with industry clients and technology partners to accelerate these trends maybe mention through automation, transition to hybrid cloud and help our clients to really gain some benefits from their change. So one area I can talk about is automation. We see increasing requirements from our clients on automation for operational excellence, meet the economic downturn, and for hygiene purposes as well. So Seoul Asan hospital is one of the leading hospitals in Korea and has the largest number of beds. Asan hospital and IBM worked together to develop a bed location automation system, based on design thinking workshop and garage method. The automation system considers our patient's specific preferences, surgery schedule, customized treatment for each patient, and various reservation status in each department. The result was outstanding. The hospital could reduce the bed assignment lead time from 20 minutes to seven minute with a 0% error rate. And currently more than a hundred hospitalization registration procedures are being processed every day without human intervention. And patient satisfaction and productivity of medical staff have improved significantly. That is just one great example of automation which is taking place in many other industries as well. Second is a transformation to cloud. A large credit card company in Korea has chosen IBM as a partner to convert enterprise wide systems including the most complex account system to manage it private cloud using cloud technology from IBM and Red Hat. >> Khee, you talk about these key factors, if you will, about cloud transformation and different kinds of operational efficiencies, and all these you very fundamental but very important factors to consider. When you're talking to your clients right now, what are their I wouldn't say hesitations, but I guess maybe their challenges in deciding what tasks will go where, and to what degree they're good with the cloud environment, to what degree they want it still on prem, to what where the hybrid comes into play. I mean, these are all are fairly crucial decisions that your clients are making. >> I think the barrier to any decision, like a quick decision or sort of complete understanding is the technology itself is changing very quickly. I mean last year, two years ago versus now when all technology companies should say something different. And that is not because they changed the position. Itself, the technology itself changed and technology companies are responding to that trend. So that's why some clients get confused, and that confusion slows down the adoption of digital technology. But as I mentioned earlier, this pandemic situation, I'm pretty sure they're like Mr. Suh can talk about some changes in Hyundai motors. Many companies realize that doing nothing or slowing down is not the best answer in this environment. And they are now proactively embracing those changes. >> So Jun, if you would then follow up on that, I would like to hear from you about Hyundai, and the factors that you've considered in your digital decision-making, in terms of workloads and capacities, and you know, just where you house information, where you house your data, where you process it. What are some of those factors that you have thought about and then maybe going forward how much more are you going to do? What else do, what are you considering right now in terms of future transformations? >> I think the other well, competitor the other OEMs also think like that, the, you know, the car itself should be changed to digital. It means that, you know currently the software portion of the car is just seven to 10% of total our, the procurement, but it'll be change it to 20 to 30% in near to five years. It means that software portion will be increased by three times. That is one our, that is to change it. The other one is that kind of a software mostly located not just in the car, which means that car is just a software engine activity. It means that just that the input and output, or some real time trajection. All other computation and calculation analysis and decision could be the car cloud. Therefore, the cloud is main body of the car software. And also just car it's just to edge. We have edge cloud and main cloud. It will be occurred just within several years. Because first of all, firstly, Hyundai has currently more than 40% of the car is connected in listening. And also cumulatively, we are connected by around four million car in the world. It will be change to 10 million, car would be connected within one years. >> So 10 million Hyundai cars will be connected to cloud generating information? >> Yes, collecting information, and we are ready for the OTA, which means that all over the air, software update for the 10 million car within one years. And also it will be double up, double up, double, year by year. >> Okay. >> Which means that all of the car will be operated by cloud. >> Okay. >> And car is test to input and output, and activities. Therefore car is on cloud. >> Okay. >> Right? >> Interesting. >> That is the major driver for our district transformation. >> And if you would just, what role is IBM have in that? You're talking about a massive increase of 10 million cars is a very impressive number. >> And the data, the 10 million cars are producing will be enormous. So IBM's role is actually helping clients in this kind of situation. To help those companies collect data and then like a seamless communication with the cloud. So they're like at the real time, the 10 million cars get the information timely, and also like all those cars are communicating with each other, that is made possible upon a hybrid cloud platform. And I think that is IBM's contribution to Hyundai Motors, not just Hyundai Motors, but industries who have similar challenges and desires. >> One more thing, already, IBM helped us, our IT operation in US and Europe, which composed of our 50% of our revenue come from. Therefore it means that (mumbles) billion revenue operation is located in US and Europe. All over the US, Europe, IT operation conducted by the IBM India. And orchestrated by IBM Korean people. >> So it's amazing as Mr. Suh mentioned like IBM Korea is leading the project. All the service delivery is done in India, leveraging IBM India. And we are serving Hyundai Motors in the United States and Europe. So it's truly a global IT operation environment, and that is made possible based upon IBM's cloud technology. >> Well, your summary was spot on. I couldn't say that any better. Khee, thank you for that. Jun, thank you as well, talking about this impressive global impact and really partnership that Hyundai is taking with IBM and the several continents. And making it work for millions of consumers around the world. Thank you both for your time today. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much, John. >> Thank you. >> All right, we've been talking about Korea as an IT powered country for the IBM perspective. And certainly using Hyundai is a beautiful example of just how this partnership is working and growing and providing great service for consumers, at the end of the day. You've been watching theCUBE and IBM Think. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this special CUBE virtual coverage of the AWS summit virtual online. This is an event that Amazon normally has in-person in San Francisco, but now it's virtual around the world, Seoul, Korea, in Tokyo, all over the world and Asia-Pacific and in North America. I'm John Furrier here joined with Stu Miniman. So Stu, we're kicking off AWS virtual with theCUBE virtual. I'm in Palo Alto with the quarantine crew. You're in Massachusetts, in Boston and the quarantine crew there. Stu, great to have you on to talk about AWS virtual summit. >> Yeah, John, it's great to see you. It's been, you know, interesting times doing all these remote interviews. As many of us say, I sure don't miss the planes and the hotels, but I do miss the communities. I do miss the hallway conversation, but great to see you John. Love the Midnight Madness shirt from re:Invent last year. >> Well, we want to thank Amazon for stepping up with some sponsorship for allow us to do the virtual CUBE alongside their virtual event, because now it's a global community. It's all virtual, there are no boundaries theCube has no boundary. Stu, we've got a great program. We have Corey Quinn coming up and expect to hear from him last week in AWS. He's known for, he's a rising star in the community, certainly CUBE guest and also guest host and analyst for theCUBE. We expect to hear all the latest from his big Zoom post controversy, to really what's going on in AWS, around what services are high. I know you're going to do a great interview with him, but let's start with Amazon. We're seeing a ton of activity. Obviously most recently, last week was the JEDI thing, which was an agency protest, kind of confidential. Microsoft blew that up big time with a post by their worldwide comms person Frank Shaw, countered by Drew Herdener, who's the comms global lead for AWS. And so a war of words is ensuing. This is again, pointing to the cloud native war that's going on with a JEDI conference. I mean, the JEDI contract for $10 billion, which is worth to Microsoft. This shows that the heat is on, Stu. This is a absolute bloodbath between AWS and Microsoft. We're seeing it play out now virtually with Amazon, A.I. large scale cloud. This is huge, this is another level. A DEFCON one basically, your thoughts? >> Yeah, John, you've covered this really well. It's been really interesting plot, number one, you talked about the security requirement, when AWS launched the GovCloud had the CIA as a client, early on many years ago. It was the green light for many companies that go from "Wait, is the cloud secure enough?" to "Well, if it's good enough for "the federal government in the U.S., "it's probably good enough for the enterprise." When Microsoft won JEDI, they didn't have all the certification, to meet what was in the contract. They had a ticking clock to make sure that they could meet those security engagements, as well as one of the pieces on the task board that moved was Oracle made a partnership announcement with Azure. We know the federal government uses Oracle quite a bit, so they can now run that in Azure and not have the penalties from Oracle. So that many have said, "Hey AWS, "why don't you kind of let that one piece of business go? "You've got federal business." But those ripple effects we understand from one contract kind of move things around. >> Well, my take on this is just the tempest in the teapot. Either Microsoft's got something that we don't know or they're running scared. My prediction, Stu, is that the clock is going to tick out. D.O.D. is going to award the contract again to Microsoft because I don't think the D.O.D. wants to change based upon the data that I'm getting from my reporting. And then ultimately Amazon will keep this going in court because Microsoft has been deficient on winning the deal. And that is by the judge and in government contracts, as you know, when you're deficient, you're ineligible. So essentially on the tech specs, Microsoft failed to meet the criteria of the contract and they're deficient. They still can't host top secret content even if they wanted to. This is going to be a game changer. If this comes out to be true, it will be a huge tech scandal. If it's true, then AWS is going to have egg on their face. Okay, so moving past JEDI, this speaks to the large scale problems that are having with COVID. You seeing Amazon, they're all working at home, but they still get to run the servers. They can do it, they've got cloud native, you got DevOps, but for their customers Stu, but people who are trying to do hybrid, what are you hearing in terms of the kinds of situations that people are doing? Are they still going to work with masks on? Are there still data centers that need to be managed? What are you hearing Stu, in the tech worlds do around COVID-19 and as the cloud becomes more apparent, it's obvious that if you're not cloud native, you're going to be on the wrong side of history here, it's pretty obvious. >> Well, absolutely John, there is a bit of a tailwind behind cloud or with COVID-19, everything from, you mentioned work from home. Everybody needs to be on their VPN. They need to access their services, where they are. If you've got a global workforce, if you thought that your infrastructure was going to be able to handle that, you might not be in for a good story. AWS is meeting that need. There's been some of the cloud providers that have had performance issues, that have had to prioritize which customers can get access to things. AWS is standing strong, they're meeting their customers and they're answering the call of cloud. We know that AWS puts a huge investment into their environment. If you compare an availability zone or from AWS, it is very, very sturdy. It's not just, you know, a small cluster and they say, "Hey, we can run all over the place." To be specific Azure, has been having some of those performance issues and there's been some concerns. Corey actually wrote a really good article talking about that it actually puts a bad view on public cloud in general, but we know not all public clouds are the same. So, Google has been doing quite well, managing the demand spike, so has AWS. Microsoft has needed to respond a little bit. >> Since you just mentioned, Microsoft's outages, Microsoft actually got caught on their 8K filing, which I just had me going through and I noticed that they said they had all this uptime for the cloud. It turns out it wasn't the cloud, it was the team's product. They had to actually put a strike a line through it legally. So a lot of people getting called out, but it doesn't matter, it's a crisis. I think that's not going to be a core issue. This is going to be what technology has been needed the most. And I got to ask you Stu, when was the last time you and I talked about virtual desktops? Because hey, if you're working at home and you're not at your desk, you might need some stuff on your desk. This is a real issue. I mean it's kind of a corner case in tech, but virtual desktops, if you're not at the office, you need to have that at home. This is a huge issue and it's been a surge of demand. >> Yeah, there were jokes in the community that, you know, finally at the year of V.D.I., but desktop as the service John, is an area that took a little while to get going. So, Dave Vellante and I were just having a conversation about this. You and Dave interviewed me when Amazon released workspaces and it was like, you know, Citrix is doing so well and V.D.I. isn't the hotness anymore, but desktop as a service, has grown, if you talk about desktop as a service compared to VDI, VDI is still a bit of a heavy lift. Even if you've got hyper converged infrastructure, roll this out, it's a couple of months to put these whole solutions together. Now if you have some of that infrastructure, can you scale it, can you build them up much faster? Yes you can. But if you're starting to enable your workforce a little bit faster, desktop as a service is going to be faster. AWS has a strong solution with workspaces. It really is that enablement and it's also putting pressure on the SaaS providers. One, they need scale and two, they need to be responsive that some of their customers need to scale up really fast and some of them need to dial things down. Always worry about, some of these contracts that the SaaS providers put you in. So, customers need to make sure they're being loud and clear with their providers. If you need help, if you need to adjust something, push back on them because they should be responsive, because we know that there is a broad impact on this, but it will not be a permanent impact. So, these are the times that companies need to work closely with customers, because otherwise you will, either make a customer for life or you will have somebody that will not be saying good about you for a long time. >> Well Stu, so let's just quickly run through some of the highlights so far on the virtual conference, virtual event. Obviously Amazon pre-announced last month, the Windows migration service, which has been a big part of their business. They've been doing it for 11 years. So we're going to have an interview with an AWS person to talk about that. Also AppFlow is announced as well as part of the virtual kind of private connects. So, you know, you're seeing that right here, large scale data lakes breaking down those silos, moving data from the cloud, from the console into the top applicants, like Salesforce is the big one. So that was kind of pre announced. The big story here is the Kendra availability and the augmented A.I. availability, among other things. This is this big story. This kind of shows the Amazon track record. They pre-announced that re:Invent and try to run as fast as they can to get it shipping. The focus of AI, the focus of large scale capacity, whether it's building on top of EC2, serverless, Lambda, A.I., all this is kind of coming together. Data, high capacity operational throughput and added value. That seems to be the highlights, your reaction? >> Yeah, so John, AppFlow is an interesting one, we were just talking about task providers. An area that we've been spending a lot of time talking with the East coast system is my data is all over the place. Yes, there's my data centers, public cloud, but there's all of these task providers. So, if I have data in ServiceNow I have it in Workday, I have it in Salesforce, how do I have connectors there? How do I secure that? How do I protect that? So Amazon, working with a broad ecosystem and helping to pull that together is definitely an interesting one to watch. Kendra definitely been some good buzz in the ecosystem for a while there. The question is on natural language processing and A.I., where are the customers with these deployments? Because some of them, if they're a little bit more longterm strategic might be the kind of projects that get put on pause rather than the ones that are critical for me to run the business today. >> And I just did a podcast with the VMware ecosystem last week talking about which projects will be funded, which ones won't. It brings up this new virtual work environment, where some people are going to get paid and some people aren't. If you're not core to the enterprise, you're probably not going to get paid. If you're not getting a phone call to come into work, you're probably going to get fired. So there will be projects that will be cut and projects that will be funded. Certainly virtual events, which I want to talk to you about in a minute, to applications that are driving revenue and or engagement around the new workforce. So the virtualization of business is happening. Now, we joke because we know server virtualization actually enabled the cloud, right? So I think there's going to be a huge Cambrian explosion of applications. So I want to get your thoughts, the folks you've been talking through the past few months, what are you hearing in terms of those kinds of projects that people are going to be leaning into and funding, versus ones they might put on hold? Have you heard anything? >> Yeah, well, John, it's interesting, when you go back at its core, what is AWS? And they want to enable build. So the last couple of years we've been talking about all of the new applications that will get built. That's not getting put on hold, John. What I do, not just to run the business but grow the business. I need to still have applications at the core of what we do. Data and application really are what driving companies today. So that piece is so critically important and therefore AWS is a very strategic partner there. >> Yeah, I've been seeing the same things too. I think the common trend that I would just add to that would be I'm seeing companies looking at the COVID crisis as an opportunity. And frankly in some cases an excuse to lay people off and that's kind of, you're seeing some of that. But at the end of the day that people are resetting, re-inventing and then putting new growth strategies together, that still doesn't change. business still needs to get done, so great point. All right, Stu, virtual events. We're here with the AWS summit. Normally we're on the show floor with theCUBE, we are here with the virtual CUBE doing our virtual thing. It's been interesting, Stu. A lot of our events have converted to virtual, some have been canceled but most of them have been been running on the virtual. We've been plugged in. But theCUBE is evolving, and I want to get your thoughts on how you see theCube evolving. I've been getting a lot of questions. This came up again on the VMware community podcast. How has theCUBE morphed? And I know that we've been working hard with a lot of our customers, how have we evolved? Because we're in the middle of this digital wave. This is a virtualization wave. theCUBE is in there. We've been successful, there's been different use cases. Some have been embedded into the software. Amazon's got their own run a show. But events are more than just running the show content. There's a lot more community behind this Stu, your thoughts on how theCUBE has evolved and what are you seeing? >> I'm glad John, you just mentioned community. So you and I have talked many times on air and did this too about theCUBE is as much a network and a community as it is a media company. So, first of all it's been so heartening over the last couple of months that we've been putting out content. We're still getting some great feedback from the community. One of the things I personally miss is, when we step off the stage and you walk the hallway and you bump into people that know and they ask you questions or they share some of the things that they're going through. That data that we always look for is something we still need. So I'm making sure to reach out to friends diving back into the social panels to make sure that we understand the pulse of what's going on. But, John, our community has always been online so a big piece of theCUBE is relatively unchanged other than we're doing all of the interviews remote. We have to deal with everyone's home systems and home network. Every once in a while you hear a dog barking in the background or a child running, but it actually humanized. So there's that opportunity for the communities to rally together. Some of my favorite interviews have been, the open source communities that are gathering together to work on common issues. A lot of them specifically for the global pandemic. And so there are some really good stories out there. I worry when you talk about companies that are saying, Hey, this is the-- (sound cuts out) There have been so many job losses, in this pandemic that it just is heartbreaking. So, we love when the tech community is helping to spur new opportunities, great new industries. I had a great interview that I did with our friends from A Cloud Guru and they've seen about a 20 to 30% increase on people taking the online training. And one of the main things that they're taking training on is the 101 courses on AWS, on Google and on Azure as well as an interesting point John, they said multicloud is something that has come up. So, 2020, we've been wondering is AWS going to admit that multicloud is a thing? Or are they going to stick with their hybrid message and ask that their partners not talk about multicloud? >> It's been interesting on the virtual queue, because we and Amazon's been a visionary in this and letting theCUBE be virtual with them. It's become a connective tissue, Stu, between the community and if you think about how much money the companies are saving by not running the physical events and with the layoffs as you mentioned, I think there could be an opportunity for theCUBE to be that connective tissue to bring people together. And I think that's the mission that we hope will unfold. But ultimately digital investments will probably go up from this. I'm seeing a lot of great conversion around, okay, so the content, what does it mean to me? Is that my my friend group, how are my friends involved? How do I learn, how do I discover? How do I connect? And I think the interesting thing about theCube is we've seen that upfront and I think there's a positive sign ahead, Stu, around virtualization of the media and the community and I think is going to be an economic opportunity and I hope that we could help people find either jobs or ways to reengage and reconnect. So again, re:Invent's coming, you've got VMworld, all these big shows too, they drop so much cash! Can you imagine if they put all that cash into the community? I think that's a viable scenario. >> Yeah, no, absolutely, John. There is big money in events. Yes, there are less costs. There are also almost none of them are charging for people to attend and very few of them are charging their sponsors. So, big shift in how we have to look at these. It needs to be a real focus on content. I mean, from our standpoint, John, from day one, and we've been doing this a decade now, in the early days when it was a wing and a prayer on the technology, it was always about the content and the best people help extract that signal from the noise. So, some things have changed, the mission overall stays the same. >> And you know what, Amazon is being humble. They're saying we're figuring it out. Of course, we're psyched that we're there with the virtual CUBE. Stu, thanks for spending the time kicking off this virtual coverage, wrap up. Not as good as face-to-face, love to be there on site, but I think it's going to be easier to get guests too Stu in the virtual world, but we're going to go to a hybrid as soon as it comes back to normal. It sounds like cloud Stu, public hybrid virtual. There it is. Stu, thanks so much. >> Thanks John. >> Okay, that's theCUBE coverage for AWS Summit Virtual Online. It's theCUBE virtual coverage. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching. Stay tuned for the next segment. (upbeat music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. >>This is a cube conversation >>live on. Welcome to the Special Cube Virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online. This is an event of virtual event by AWS. We're covering with the Virtual Cube his Amazon, so it would have no >>looking started. We started. Thank you. Right >>everyone, welcome to this Special Cube. Virtual coverage of the AWS Summit Virtual Online This is an event that Amazon normally has in person in San Francisco, but now it's virtual around the world. Seoul, Korea, in Tokyo, all over the world, in Asia Pacific and in North America, I'm John Furrier Dave Jones Stew Minimum. Let's do We're kicking off aws Virtual with the Cube Virtual. I'm in Palo Alto with the quarantine crew. You're in Massachusetts in Boston when the quarantine crew there still great to have you on to talk about AWS Virtual summit. >>Yeah, John, it's it's great to see you. Ah, it's been ah, you know, interesting times doing all these remote interviews A Z Many of us say I don't blame hotels, but I do miss the communities I do miss the hallway conversation. But great to see you, John. Love the Midnight Madness shirt. We >>want to thank Amazon for stepping up with some sponsorship for allow us to do the Virtual Cube alongside their virtual event because now it's a global community. It's all virtual. There are no boundaries. The Cube has no boundaries to We've got a great program. We have Cory Quinn coming up. Expect to hear from him last week in AWS is known for is a rising star in the community. Certainly Cube guest and also guest host and analyst for the Cube. We spent to hear all the latest from his big zoom post controversy to really what's going on in AWS around what services are hot. I know you're going to a great interview with him, but that's not what Amazon we're seeing a ton of activity, obviously, most recently last week was the jet, I think, which was an agency protest kind of confidential. Microsoft blew that up big time with a post by their worldwide comes person. Frank Shaw countered by Drew Heard Who's the coms globally for end of us and so a war of words is ensuing. This is again pointing to the cloud Native War that's going on with a jet I conference gets Jedi contract a $10 billion which is awards to Microsoft. This shows that the heat is on to do. This is a absolute bloodbath between AWS and Microsoft. We're seeing it play out now virtually with Amazon ai Large scale cloud. This is huge. This is this is another level. A def con one. Basically your thoughts. >>Yeah, John, you know, you've covered this really well and really impressing plot number one you talk about You know, this requirement When AWS launched the govcloud had the CIA as a client early on many years ago. It was the green light for many companies to go from. Wait. Is the club secure enough? Do well, good enough for the federal government in the US It's probably good enough for the enterprise. When Microsoft one jet I they didn't have all the certifications to meet what was in the contract? They had a ticking clock. Make sure that they could meet those security engagements. Aziz. Well, as you know what, one of the pieces the esports that move was working, made a partnership announced with Azure. We know the federal government uses Oracle quite a bit, though they can now run that in azure and not have the penalties from Oracle. So you know that many have said, you know Hey, AWS, why don't you kind of let that one go? You got federal business, but those ripple effect we understand from one contract kind of move things around. >>Well, my take on this is just the tip of the teapot. Either Microsoft's got something that we don't know where they're running scared. My predictions do is that the clock is gonna take out D o. D. Is going award the contract again to Microsoft because I don't think the d. O. D. Wants to change basically on the data that I'm getting from my reporting. And then, ultimately Amazon will keep this going in court because Microsoft has been deficient on winning the deal. That is by the judge and in government contracts. As you know, when you're deficient, you're ineligible. So, essentially on the tech specs, Microsoft failed to meet the criteria the contract and they're deficient. They still can't host top secret content even if they wanted to. This is going to be a game changer when if this comes out to be true, it will be a huge tech scandal. If it's true, then am I gonna have egg on their face? OK, so we passed. This speaks to the large scale problems that are having with Cove it. You're seeing Amazon. They're all working at home, but they still got to run the servers. They >>can do >>it. They got cloud native. You've got Dev ops. But for their customers to be people who are trying to do hybrid. What >>are you >>hearing in terms of the kinds of situations that people are doing? Are they still going to work with maths on our There's still data centers that need to be managed. What >>are >>you hearing in the tech world's do around Covad 19. And as the cloud becomes more apparent, it's obvious that if you're not cloud native, you're going to be on the wrong side of history. Here is pretty obvious. >>Yeah, well, absolutely. John. There there is a bit of a Elwyn behind cloud. Everything from you mentioned work from home. Everybody needs to be on their VPN. They need to access their service access their services where they are. If you've got a global workforce, if you thought that your infrastructure was going to be able to handle that, you might not be in for a WS is meeting that need. There's been some of the cloud providers that have had performance issues have had to prioritize which customers can get access to things AWS standing strong. They're meeting their customers and their answering the call of cloud. You know, we know that AWS puts a huge investment into their environment. If you compare an availability zone from AWS, you know, it is very, very sturdy. It's not just, you know, a you know, a small cluster on. And they say, Hey, we can run all over the place, you know, to be specific It's, you know, John Azure has been having some of those performance issues and has been from concerns. Corey actually wrote a really good article talking about that. It actually put a bad you on public cloud in general. But we know not all public cloud with the same, though, you know, Google has been doing quite well, you know. Managing the demand spike, though, has AWS. Microsoft has needed to respond a little bit. >>It's just mentioned Microsoft's outages. Microsoft actually got caught on eight K filing, which you just have to be going through, and they noticed that they said they had all this up. Time for the cloud. Turns out it wasn't the cloud. It was the teams product. They had to actually put a strike a line through it legally. So a lot of people getting called out, it doesn't matter. It's a crisis. I think that's not gonna be a core issue is gonna be what technology has been needed the most. And I got to ask you still, when was the last time you and I talked about virtual desktops? Because, hey, if you're working at home and you're not at your desk, you need might need some stuff on your desk. This >>is a real issue. >>I mean, it's a >>kind >>of a corner case in tech, but virtual desktops. If >>you're not >>at the office, you need to have that at home. This is a huge issue. It's been a surge >>in demand. Yeah, there were jokes in the community that you know, finally, it's the year of VD I, but desktop as a service. John is an area that took a little while to get going. You know, Dave Volante and I were just having about this. You and Dave interviewed me when Amazon released workspaces, and it was like, Ah, you know, Citrix is doing so well and VD I, you know, isn't the hotness anymore, But that's not service as grown. If you talk about desktop as a service compared to V i p. I is still, you know, a bit of a heavy lift. Even if you've got, you know, hyper converged infrastructure. Roll this out. It's a couple of months to put these whole solutions together. Now, if you have some of that in perspective, can you scale it and you build them up much faster? Yes, you can. But if you're starting to enable your workforce a little bit faster, desktop as a service is going to be faster. AWS has a strong solution with work base. Is it really is that enablement? And it's also putting pressure on the SAS providers. One. They need scale and do they need to be responsive that some of their customers need to scale up really fast and some of them dial things down. Always worry about some of these on track that the SAS providers, but you in. So you know, customers need to make sure they're being loud and clear with their providers. If you need help. If you need to adjust something, you know, push back on them because they should be responsive because we know that there is a broad impact on this. But it will not be a permanent impact, though you know, these are the times that companies need to work closely with customers because otherwise you will. You will either make a customer for life, or you will have somebody that will not be saying about you for a long >>while. Still, let's just quickly run through some of the highlights so far on the virtual conference virtual event. Aussie Amazon Pre announced last month the Windows Migration Service, which has been a big part of their business. They've been doing it for 11 years, so we're gonna have an interview with an AWS person to talk about that also app Flows announced as well as part of the virtual kind of private, you know, private checks. So you're seeing that right here. Large scale data lakes breaking down those silos, moving data from the cloud from the console into the top. Applicants like Salesforce is a big one. That was kind of pre announced. The big story here is the Kendra availability and the augmented AI availability. Among other things, this is the big story. This kind of shows the Amazon track record they pre announced at reinvent, trying to run as fast as they can to get it shipping the focus of AI. The focus of large scale capacity, whether it's building on top of GC, too. Server list. Lambda ai. All this is kind of coming together data, high capacity, operational throughput and added value. That seems to be the highlights. Your reaction? >>Yeah, John, You know, at flow is an interesting one. We were just talking about asp providers. An area that we've been spending a lot of time talking with. The system is you know, my data is all over the place, you know? Yes, there's my data centers public, but there's all of these past provides. So, you know, if I have data in service now, I have it in workday. I have a sales force you know, how do I have connectors there? How do I You're that How do I protect that, though? Amazon, you know, working with a broad ecosystem and helping to pull that together. Eyes definitely an interesting one. What? Kendra definitely been some good buzz in the ecosystem for a while. They're You know, the question is on natural language processing and a I, you know, where are the customers with these deployments? Because some of them, if they're a little bit more long term, Egypt might be the kind of projects that get put on pause rather than the ones that are critical for me to run the business today. >>And I just did a podcast with the VM ware ecosystem last week talking about which projects will be funded. Which ones won't. It brings up this new virtual work environment where, you know, some people are going to get paid and some people aren't. If you're not core to the enterprise, you're probably not going to get paid. If you're not getting a phone call to come into work, you're probably gonna get fired. So there will be project that will be cut and projects that will be funded certainly virtual events, which I want to talk to you about in a minute to applications that are driving revenue and or engagement around the new workforce. So the virtualization of business is happening now. We joke because we know server virtualization actually enabled the cloud. Right? So I think there's going to be a huge Cambrian explosion of applications. So I want to get your thoughts. The folks you've been talking to the past few months, what are you hearing in terms of those kinds of projects that people will be leaning into and funding versus ones they might put on hold? Have you heard anything? >>Yeah. Well, you know, John, it's interesting when you go back at its core, what is AWS and they want to enable built. So, you know, the last couple of years we've been talking about all of the new applications that will get built. That's not getting put on hold, Jones. You know it. What? I do not just to run the business but grow the business. I need the We'll have applications at the core of what we do. Data and applications, Really. Or what? Driving companies today. So that piece is so critically important and therefore AWS is a very strategic partner there. >>I'm saying the same things Do I think the common trend that I would just add to that would be I'm seeing companies looking at the covert crisis is the opportunity and frankly in some cases, an excuse to lay people off, and that's kind of you're seeing some of that. But the >>end of >>the day that people are resetting, reinventing and then putting new growth strategies together that still doesn't change business still needs to get done. So great point. It's to virtual events were here with the AWS summit. Normally run the show floor. The Cube. We're here with the Virtual Cube doing our virtual thing. It's been interesting to a lot of our events have converted to virtual. Some have been canceled, but most of them have been been running on the virtual. We've been plugged in, but the cube is evolving, and I want to get your thoughts on how you see the Cube evolving. I've been getting a lot of questions that came again on the VM Ware community podcast. How is the Cube morphed and I know that we've been working hard with a lot of our customers. How have we evolved? Because we're >>in the >>middle of this digital way, this virtualization away. The Cube is in there. We've been successful. That's been different use cases. Some have been embedded into the software. Amazon's got their own run a show. But events are more than just running the show content. >>Yeah, more John, >>more community behind us to your thoughts and how well Cube has evolved. And what are you seeing? >>I'm glad, John. You just mentioned community. So you know, you and I have talked many times on air that, you know, the Cube is much network in the community as it is a media company. So, you know, first of all, it's been so heartening over the last couple of months that we've been putting out. We're still getting some great feedback from the community. One of things I personally miss is, you know, when we step off the stage and you walk the hallway and you bump into people that know when they ask your questions were you know, they share some of the things that they're going through. That data that we always look for is something we still need. So I'm making sure that reach out to friends, you know, diving back into the social channels to make sure that we understand the pulse of what's going on. But you know, John, you know, our community has always been online, though a big piece of the Cube is relatively unchanged. Other than we're doing all the interviews, we have to deal with everyone's home systems in home network. Every once in a while you hear a dog barking in the background or, you know, a child running, but it actually humanized. So there's that opportunity or the communities to rally together. Some of my favorite interviews have been, you know, the open source communities that are gathering together toe work on common issues, a lot of them specifically for the global endemic, you know, And so there are some really good stories out there. I worry when you talk about companies that are think, Hey, this There have been so many job losses in this pandemic that it just is heartbreak. So, you know, we've loved when the tech community is helping to spur new opportunities, great new industries. I had a great interview that I did with our friends from a cloud guru, and they've seen about a 20 to 30% increase on people taking the online training. And one of the main things that they're taking training on is the one on one courses on AWS on Google and on Azure, as well as an interesting point. John, they said, Multi cloud is something that come up. So you know, 2020 we've been wondering. Is aws going to admit that multi cloud is a thing, or are they going to stick with their hybrid message and, you know, as their partners not talk about? It's >>been interesting on the virtual queue because we and Amazon's been a visionary and this leading Q B virtual with them. It's become a connective tissues to between the community. And if you think about how much money the companies they're saving by not running the physical events and with the layoffs, as you mentioned, I think that could be an opportunity for the Cube to be that connective tissue to bring people together. I think that's the mission that we hope will unfold, but ultimately, digital investments will probably go up from this. I'm seeing a lot of great conversion around. Okay, So the content, What does it mean to me? Is that my friend group are my friends involved? How do I learn? How do I discover? How do I connect? And I think the interesting thing about the Cube is we've seen that up front. And I think there's a positive sign of heads do around virtualization of the media and the community. And I think it's going to be economic opportunity. And I hope that we could help people find either jobs or ways to re engage and reconnect. So again, reinvents coming. You got VM World. All >>these big shows do They dropped so much cash. Can you answer? They >>put all that cash with the community. I think that's a viable scenario. >>Yeah. No, Absolutely. John. There there is, you know, big money and events, you know? Yes, there are less cost. They're also, you know, almost none of them are charging for people to attend, and very few of them are urging the bunker. So, you know, big shift in and how we have to look at these. It needs to be a real focus on content. I mean from our standpoint, John, from day one. We've been doing this a decade now. In the early days when it was a wing and a prayer on the technology, it was always about the content. And the best people help extract that signal from the noise. So, you know, some things have changed the mission overall days. >>And you know what? Amazon is being humble. They're saying we're figuring it out. Of course, we're psyched that we're there with the Virtual Cube students do. Thanks for spending the time kicking off this virtual coverage wrap up. Not >>as good as face to face. >>Love to be there on site. But I think it's easy to get guests used to in the virtual world. But we're gonna go to a hybrid as soon as it comes back to normal. Sounds like clouds to public hybrid virtual. There it is too. Thanks so much. Okay, that's the cube coverage for AWS Summit. Virtual online. That's the Cube virtual coverage. I'm sure. First Amendment, Thanks for watching. Stay tuned for the next segment. Yeah, >>yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE, covering Kubecon and CloudNativeCon brought to you by Redhat, a CloudNative computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are here in San Diego where we are keeping CloudNative classy. I'm Stu Miniman, and my cohost is John Troyer, and we are happy to welcome back to the program, our host, Dan Kohn, who is the executive director of the CloudNative computing foundation, or the CNCF. Dan, thank you so much for having us. >> Thrilled to be back again. >> All right, and, yeah, so our fourth year doing this show, the big shows-- >> Dan: Nothing's really changed. You just tear right along the same level. One year to the next, you can just confuse them pretty easily.. >> So, you know, Dan, we actually did a prediction show yesterday, and I said, maybe it's my math background, but I look back two years ago, it was four thousand, then eight thousand, now twelve thousand, so I predict Boston must be sixteen thousand because I was used to those standardized tests, but with the growth, you never know, and it is very difficult, you know, we talk about planning, we've talked, this facility was booked before-- >> Dan: Two years ago. >> --the curve really started taking off. So, help us set the stage a little bit, we're getting towards the end of the event, but you know, tons of day zero things, so many sessions, so many people, there were pre-show events I heard that started like the end of last week, so, it's a small city in this community in so many pieces, and the CNCF helps enable all of it. >> It does, and what's fun for us is just that, the community is out there adopting these technologies and contributing to it and growing, and being able to come together, this is always our biggest event in North America but also in Europe and China. It's just a really nice snapshot of the point of time, in saying, okay, where are things, how many companies are interested in having sponsor booths, how many developers are there, how many track, but, I think maybe my favorite anecdote from Kubecon CloudNativeCon San Diego is that there was a, so we offer, a CFP track, a call for proposals that's extremely competitive, only 12% of the talks get accepted. And then we have a maintainer track, where the different providers can have either an intro, a deep-dive, or both. So the deep dive for the project Helm, which is not even a graduated project yet, I mean, it's very widely used, package manager for Kubernetes, but the deep dive for Helm had more than 1600 people inside their session, which is more than we had at all of attending Kubecon 2015 and 2016 combined. >> So, Dan, one of the words that gets mentioned a lot in this space, and it has lots of different meanings, is "scale". You know, we talk about Kubernetes built for big scale, we're talking about Edge computing which goes to small scale. This event, you look at the ecosystem. There's a thirty foot banner with all of the logos there, you look at the landscape-- >> Dan: They're not that big, either. >> --there are so many logos on there. Actually, I really thought you had an enjoyable yet useful analogy in your opening keynote. You talk about Minecraft. I've got a boy, he plays Xbox, I've seen Minecraft, so when he pulls up the little chart and there's like, you know, all of these little things on the side, my son can tell you how they're used and what you can build with them, I would be completely daunted looking at that, much like many of the people coming to this show, and they look around and they're like, I don't even know where to start. >> And that was fun keynote for me to put together, because I did need to make sure, both on the Minecraft part, that all the formulas were correct, I didn't want anyone... But then I drew the analogy to Kubernetes and how it is based on a set of building blocks, hundreds of them, that have evolved over time, and for that, I actually did some software archeology of reaching out to the people who created the original IPFW, Linux firewall 20 years ago based on PSD and then the evolution since then, made sure that they were comfortable with my description of it. But now, bringing it out to Kubecon, CNCF, we have a lot of projects now, so we're up to 43. When we met in Seattle four years ago, it was 2. And so it's definitely incumbent on CNCF to do a good job, and we can probably do an even better one on trying to draw this trail map, this recommended path through understanding the technologies, deciding on which ones people might want to adopt. >> Yeah, I think that would be really interesting. In fact, the words trail map kind of came up on Twitter, today, I saw. And one of the things that struck me was how the first rule of Kubecon is, well, Kubernetes is not maybe in the center of everything, it's underneath everything, but, like you said, 42 projects in the CNCF, many more projects, open-source projects, of course, from different vendors, from different coalitions, that you can see here on the show floor as well, if not in a session, so, without giving a maybe a CNCF 101, what does the path forward look like in terms of that, the growth of projects within the CNCF umbrella, the prominence of Kubecon, are we headed towards CloudNativeCon? >> Well, we've always been calling it Kubecon CloudNativeCon, and we could reverse the names, but I don't see any particular drive to do that. But I would really emphasize, and give credit to Craig McLuckie and some of the other people who originally set up CNCF, where Google had this technology, if they'd come to the Linux Foundation and said, we want to call it the Kubernetes Foundation, we probably would've said yes to that. But the impact, then, would be that all of these other technologies and approaches would have come in and said, we need to become part of the Kubernetes project, and instead, there was a vision of an ecosystem, and the reality is that Kubernetes is still by far the largest project. I mean, if you look at the total number of contributors, I believe it's approximately the same between Kubernetes and our other 42 projects combined. So, and of course, there's overlap. But in that sense, in some ways, Kubernetes sort of represents the sun, and the other projects are orbiting around it, but from the beginning, the whole idea was to say that we wanted to allow a diversity of different approaches, and CNCF has had this very clear philosophy that we're not king makers, that if you look at our landscape document, where we look at different functions like key management or container run times or databases or others, there can be multiple CNCF hosted projects in each box. And so far at least, that approach seems to be working quite well. >> Yeah, Dan, having been to a number of these, the maturity and progress is obvious. Something we've said is Kubernetes is really table sticks at this point, no matter where I go, there is going to be Kubernetes, and therefore, I've seen it some over the last year or so, but very prominent on this show, we're talking about work loads, we're talking about applications, you know, it's defining and explaining that CloudNative piece of it, and the tough thing is, you know, modern applications and building applications and that AppDev community. So, you know, speak a little bit-- You've got a very diverse audience here, talk about the personas you have to communicate with, and who you're attracting to this. I know they put out lots of metrics as to the surveys and who's coming and who's participating. >> Well, we do, and we'll be publishing those, and I love the fact. I think some people misunderstand in the thinking that Kubecon CloudNativeCon is all infrastructure engineers, and something like a third or more of the attendees are application developers, and so I do think there's this natural move, particularly towards AppDev. The difference is that on the infrastructure side, there's just a really strong consensus about Kubernetes, as you're saying, where on the application development side, it's still very early days. And I mean, if anything, I think really the only area that there is consensus on is that the abstractions that Kubernetes provides are not the ones that we want to have regular application developers at most enterprises working with, that they shouldn't actually need to build their own container and then write the YAML in order to configure it. Brian Liles hit that point nicely with his keynote today around Rails. But so we can agree that what we have isn't the right outcome, we can agree that whatever are the winning solutions are very likely underneath going to be building those containers and writing the YAML. But there are so many different approaches right now, at a high layer on what that right interface is. >> Yeah, I mean, just, one example I have, I had the opportunity to interview Bloomberg for the second time. And a year ago, we had talked very much about the infrastructure, and this year we talked about really, they've built internally that PaaS layer, so that their AppDevs, they might know that there's Kubernetes, but they don't have to interface with that at all. I've had a number of the CNCF end user members participate, maybe, speak to that, the community of end users participating, and end user usage overall. >> Yeah, so when we first met in Seattle four years ago, we had three members of our end user community. We appreciated them joining early, but that was a tough call. But to be up to 124 now, representing almost every industry, all around the world, just a huge number of brand names, has been fantastic. What is interesting is, if you go talk to them, almost all of them are using Kubernetes as the underlying layer for their own internal PaaS, and so the regular developers in their organizations can often just want to type get push, and then have the continuous integration run and the things built and then deployed out and everything. But it's somewhat surprising there hasn't yet been a level of consensus on what that sort of common PaaS, the common set of abstractions on top should be. There's a ton of our members and developers and others are all working to sort of build that winning solution, but I don't have a prediction for you yet. >> And of course, skill interoperability and skill transferability is going to be key in growing this ecosystem, but I thought the stats on you know, the searches you can do on the number of job openings for Kubernetes is incredible. >> Yeah, so on the interoperability, we were very pleased to announce Tuesday that we've now passed 100 certified vendors, and of all the things that CNCF does, probably even including Kubecon, I might say that that certified Kubernetes program is the one that's had the biggest impact. To have implementations from over 100 different organizations that you can take the same workloads and move them across and have the confidence, those APIs will be supported, it's just a huge accomplishment, and in some ways, up there with WiFi or Bluetooth or some of the best interoperability standards. And then you mentioned the job support, which is another-- >> Yeah, I want to transfer engineers too, as well as workloads. >> --area that we're thrilled, and we just launched that, but we now have a couple hundred jobs listed on it and a bunch of people applying, and it's just a perfect example of the kind of ecosystem development that we're thrilled to do, and in particular the fact that we're not charging either the employers or the applicants, so it's jobs.CNCF.io to get access to that. >> Great. Dan, you also mentioned in your keynote, Kubernetes has crossed the chasm. That changes the challenges that you have when you start talking about you know, the early or mid majority environment, so I know you've been flying around the globe, there's not only the three big events, but many small events, talk about how CNCF6 mission helps you know, educate and push, I guess not push, but educate and further innovation. >> Yeah, and just enable. So, one of the other programs we have is the Kubernetes Certified service provider, these are organizations, essentially consulting firms, that have a deep expertise that have had at least three of their engineers pass our certified Kubernetes administrator exam, and it is amazing now that we've passed 100 of those, but they're in over 30 different countries. So we're just thrilled to see businesses all around the world be able to take advantage of that. And I do get to go to a lot of events around the world; we're actually, CNCF is hosting our first ever events in Seoul and in Sydney in two weeks, that I'm quite excited for, and then in February, we're going to be back in India, and we're going to be in Bengaluru, where we had a very successful event in March. We'll be there in February 2020 and then our first one in New Delhi, those are both in the third week of February. And I think it does just speak to the number of people who are really eager for these to soak this up, but one of the cool things about it is we're combining both local experts, half of our speakers are local, half are international, and then we do a beginner track and an advanced track. >> Yeah, Dan, you know, I'd just love a little bit of insight from you as to, there's a little bit of uncontrolled chaos when you talk about open source. Many of the things that we're talking about this year, a year ago, we would've been, oh my gosh, I would've never thought of that. So give us what it's like to be kind of at the eye of the hurricane, if you would. >> A lot of criticism, to be honest. An amazing number of people like to point out the things that we're not quite doing correctly. But you know, the huge challenge for an organization like CNCF, where, we're a non-profit, these events are actually spinning off money that we're then able to reinvest directly into the projects, so doing things like a quarter million dollars for a security audit for Kubernetes that we were able to publish. Or a Jepson testing for NCD, or improving documentation and such. So a big part of it is trying to create those positive feedback loops, and have that, and then another huge part is just, given all the different competing interests and the fact that we literally have every big technology company in the world on our board and then all of the, I mean, hundreds of start ups that tend to be very competitive, it's just really important that we treat organizations similarly. So that all of our platinum members are treated the same, all our gold, all our silver, and then within the projects, that all the graduated projects are treated similarly, incubating, sandbox, and people really notice. I have kids, and it's a little bit there, where they're sort of always believing that the other kid is getting extra attention. >> Yeah, right, you can't be the king maker, if it will, you're letting it out. Look out a little bit, Dan, and you know, we still have more growth to go in the community, obviously the event has room for growth. What do you see looking forward to 2020 and beyond? >> Yeah, I would love to predict some sort of amazing discontinuity where everyone adopts these technologies and then CNCF is not necessary anymore, something like that. But the reality is, I mean, I love that crossing the chasm metaphor, and I do think it's very powerful, and we really do say 2018 was the year that Kubernetes crossed the chasm from the early adopters to the early majority, but I would emphasize the fact that it's only the early majority. We haven't reached in to the entire second half of the curve, the late majority and the laggards. And so there are a ton of organizations here at the event who are just getting up to speed on this and realizing, oh, we really need to invest and start understanding it. And so, I mean, I don't, we also talk about there will be some point of peak Kubecon, just like peak Loyal, and I don't yet see any signs of it being 2019 or 2020, but it's something that we're very cognizant of and working hard to try and ensure that the event remains useful for people and that they're seeing value from it. I mean, there was a real question when we went from one thousand Seattle four years ago to four thousand in Austin three years ago, oh, is this event even still useful, can developers still interact, do you still have conversations, is the hallway track still valuable? And thankfully, I'm able to chat with a lot of the core developers, where this is their fifth North American Kubecon and they're saying, no, I'm still getting value out of it. Now, what we tend to hear from them is, "but I didn't get to go to any sessions," or "I have so many hallway tracks and private meetings and interactions and such," but the great thing there is that we actually get all of these sessions up on YouTube within 48 or 72 hours, and so, people ask me, "oh, there's 18 different tracks, how do I decide which one to go to?" And I always say, "go to the one where you want to interact with the speaker afterwards, or ask a question," because the other ones, you can watch later. But there isn't really a substitute for being here on the ground. >> Well, there's so much content there, Dan, I think if they start watching now, by the time you get to Amsterdam, they'll have dented a little bit. >> I'll give a quick pitch for my favorite Chrome extension, it's called Video Speed Player. And you can speed people up to 120, 125%, get a little bit of that time back. >> Yeah, absolutely, we have at the backend of ours, there is YouTube, so you can adjust the speed and it does help most of the time, and you can back up a few seconds if needed. Dan, look, congratulations, we know you have a tough role, you and the CNCF, we really appreciate the partnership. We love our community, it has had a phenomenal time this week at the show, and look forward to 2020 and beyond. >> I do as well, I really want to thank you for being with us through this whole way, and I think it is just an important part of the ecosystem. >> And I know John Furrier also says thank you and looks forward to seeing you next year. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Dan, thank you so much. John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, getting towards the end of our three days, wall-to-wall coverage here in sunny San Diego, California, thanks for watching theCUBE.

>>Live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the cube covering Ansible Fest 2019. Brought to you by red hat. >>Welcome back everyone. Live cube coverage here in Atlanta. This is the keeps coverage of Ansible Fest. This is red hat and suppose two days of live coverage. They had a contributor day yesterday before the conference all being covered by the cube. I'm John furrier, Miko Stu Miniman. Our next guest is Chris Gardner, principal analyst at Forrester Gardner. Welcome to the cube. Thanks. See you. Good to talk to you. Hey, analyzing the players in this space is really challenging. You've got a new wave that came out a few months ago. Yep. Laying it all out. Um, certainly the world changed. You go back eight years. Cloud was just hitting the scene on premises. Look good. Data's Stanley was rocking. You're doing network management, you're doing some configuration management now you've got observability, you've got automation apps. The world's changing big time. What's your take? What's this? I mean, it's interesting because the prior versions of that wave focused entirely on configuration management and the feedback I got was, um, the world's a lot bigger than that, right? >>And we have to talk about platforms and you heard it this morning during the keynote about Redhat moving towards an platform and automation platform. And my definition of a platform is things like configuration management, hybrid cloud management, all the various types of automation and orchestration need to be there. But you also need compliance. You need governance, you need the ability to hopefully make a call as to what is actually occurring and have some intelligence behind the automation. And obviously you need the integrations. It's not a situation to simply have as many people as possible, although that's nice as many vendors you work with. But to have real relationships, if you have Microsoft working on automation code with you, if, if Amazon working on automation code with you, that makes a true platform, right? It's John said earlier day a platform needs to be an enabler. And we've even said, if you can't build on top of this, like the collections that Ansible announced here seems like it might fit under that definition. >>And there's an old joke that everything becomes a platform eventually. Right? Um, but I think that, I think it bears it. There's some merit in this one. Um, the other thing is that I'm seeing a lot of folks want a holistic automation solution and the only way you're going to do that is to have a platform that you can build things on top of it and connect the pieces and provide the proper governance. So, um, I'm mostly in agreement with the definition that's been described here and I think you could tackle different ways. Uh, and all the vendors in the space are certainly doing that. Definitely platform thinking is different. Um, you know, the easy way to look at it and the old big data space do, we'll use to cover that was a tool versus a platform, you know, tools, a hammer, everything looks like a nail, did great things. >>One thing great are a few things. Good platform is more of a systems thinking. Yes, yes. And you've got glue layers, you've got data. So it's really more of that systems thinking that separates the winners from the losers, at least at our opinion. Absolutely. I mean, when you looked at who was the leaders in my wave, it wasn't the basics of automating or orchestration and configuration management, they all had that. The, the ones that were winners, where can I do compliance in a different way? Can I actually have people come into the system that aren't it people and make a call on some of these things? Can I apply AI and machine learning to some of this? Can I make some recommendations and hopefully direct people in the right, you know, the way they should go. And you know, the folks that were able to do that Rose to the top, the folks that weren't were average and below. >>Yeah. Chris bring us inside to some of the competitive dynamics here. We understand that, you know, there's a lot of open source here and therefore everybody holds hands and things can buy y'all. But, you know, there's, you know, product tools, there's the public clouds and what they do. And then, you know, Ansible, uh, you know, fit, fits in a lot of different places. Yeah. It's, it's a bit ironic because, uh, you know, this is one of those waves where, and it's very rare that everyone was sitting was, was at least preaching kumbaya. They are all saying that they were friendly with one another. And, and, uh, quite frankly, I, I tend to believe it. We're in a situation right now where you can't get by, especially in a hybrid cloud world. We are going to have resources that live in multiple, you know, AWS and Azure, but also on premises and at the edge. You need to have these integrations. You need to be able to talk to one another. So, um, that said, there's certainly a lot of coopertition going on where people are saying, if I can integrate these tools better, if I could provide a better governance layer, if I can again, hand things off to the enterprise in a way that has not been handed off before that I don't even have to go through an INO group and infrastructure operations group, those are willing, could be the ones that truly succeed in this space. >>Software defined data center, software defined cloud, everything software defined. Yep. These abstraction layers, data and software. We had a guest on the cube a week ago saying, data's the new software I get. Okay, it's nice, nice gimmick. But if you think about it, this abstraction layer, it's like a control plan. Everyone wants to go for these control planes, which is a feature of platform. As this automation platform becomes ultimately the AI platform, how do you see it evolving and expanding? Because you see organic growth, you see certainly key positions, 6 million stars on get hub. I mean, it's running the plumbing. I mean, come on. Like it's not, it's not like it's just some corner case. >>Yeah, yeah. Infrastructure. Yeah. I mean, you know, in an idealistic way, I'd like to see, we us resolve on singular holistic platforms for enterprises. The reality is that's not not the way you can do it today. What I do try to help clients do is at least rationalize their portfolio. If they have 12 different automation products they're running, chances are that's not the best idea. Um, I've actually had situations where someone will say to me, um, I'm running Ansible in one portion of my organization and chef and another, and I say, well, it's some, they do similar things. And the reason for it was because they were stood up organically. Each group kind of figured out the things along the way. And I have to at least guide them and say, you know, where are the similarities? Where can you potentially, you know, move some stuff from there. >>But the cloud discussion, you know, always debate upon, you know, multi-cloud, Seoul cloud, ultimately the workload needs something underneath. And I think workload definition dictates kind of what might be underneath. So it might be okay to have a couple, you know, automation platforms or it could be great to have one. I mean, this is really the eye of the beholder. Beauty is in the eye of the, >>yeah, in my view. Um, I, I've been an analyst for a couple of years before that I was doing this stuff for a living. I have the worst scars and in my view it's, it's not even a matter of how many tools you use. It's putting the workload where it belongs, that matters. And if you could do that with fewer tools, obviously that from an operational level that makes life a lot easier. Um, but I'm not going to say to somebody, you know, completely dismantle your entire automation and orchestration workflow just because I think this one tool is better. Let's talk about how we can, >>that's the worst case scenario because if you have to dictate workloads based on what tool you have, that's supposed to be the other way around. >>Yes. Setting up a nuclear bomb in the data center or in the cloud has never worked. Note to self, don't do that. Yes. One of the interesting conversations we've already been having here at the show is that the tool is actually helping to drive some of the cultural change in collaboration. So, you know, what are you finding in your research? How is that, you know, kind of this admin role and you know, to the cloud in applications. You know, it's interesting. I, we continued to beat the drum that these folks are becoming developers, but we've been beating that drum for a decade now and quite frankly we had to continue to beat it. But what I think is more even more interesting is we have groups starting to pop up in our research that are separate from it, that focus on automation in a way that no one has done before. >>Some we went into it saying, Oh, that's a center of excellence, right? And the teams that we talked to said no, do not call us a center of excellence. A two reasons. One is that term is tainted. Uh, but secondly, we're not one team. There's multiple automation teams. So we're actually starting to call these groups, strike teams that come in and standardize and say, okay, I have a lead architect, a lead robot architects say it's around infrastructure automation. I'm going to standardize across the board and when other groups need to come on board, I have the principles already laid out. I have the, the process is already laid out. I come in, I accelerate that, I set it up and then I back off. I don't own the process and I'm not part of it either. I T's got operations of its own that's got to worry about. >>I'm going between the two and when we talk to especially the fortune 100 they are setting these groups up. Now when I ask them what do you called them? They don't have a name yet, so I think strike team sounds sexy, but ultimately this is not like a, a section of it that's been severed off and becomes this role. It's a completely true committee. I yeah. Oh yeah. I want our falls slow process. Exactly, exactly. And it better fits what the role is. The role is to come in, nail the process, get it automated and the get out. It's not to stand there and be a standards body forever. Um, there's certainly some groups that in some types of automation like RPA where you want them to stick around because you may want them to manage the bots. There's a whole role called bot masters, which is specifically for that role. But most of the time you want them to be part of that process and then you know, hand it back off. >>Yeah. We've seen some interesting patterns. I want to get your thoughts on this as a little bit of a non-sequitur. Want to bring it in, but in the security space you seeing a CSOs chief information security officers building their own stacks internally, they're picking one cloud, Amazon or Azure and they're building all in maybe some hedge with some people working on some backup cloud, but they don't want to fork their talent all on one cloud and they cause they need to be bad ass responsive strike teams for security pressure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Not as critical with the security side with automation, but certainly relevance. Is that the same thing going on here with this development Durham, this being continued to be as much more around core competency and building internally stacks and building some standards? >>I I, I think it is, and you know what's interesting too is that I work with, I'm on the infrastructure and operations team at Forrester. I talk with INO people all day long, but I work alongside the security team and I said to them a couple of years ago, um, you guys are going to have to get your hands dirty with this stuff that I cover. You guys have to know infrastructure, automation, API APIs, you need to know how to code these things. And I said, are you comfortable telling your sec ops folks, your clients that they go, no, by all means they have to be part of this. So they're okay with them talking to me, talking to them and saying that you need to be part of the infrastructure design process and need to be part of this decision making process. Right. Um, which is different than their sec ops role used to be. So my point is, is that these worlds are not that dissimilar as some people might think they are sec dev ops or whatever we're going to call it. We keep tacking letters onto this thing, uhm, is a actual discipline. And it is a reality in most organizations I talked to the people should. >>So a system has all of these things as data across the system. They have high blood subsystem you're talking about and yet it's this holistic system security and data. Yeah. >>And we're in a world now, especially around things like edge computing where data gravity matters. So all these pieces, you know, it's, if you go back to the old school kind of computer science folks from the, you know, 50 sixties and seventies, they're like, this is not new. We've been thinking systems thinking for awhile, but I think we're finally at a place where we're actually now breaking down the silos that we've been championing to do. So for, >>I got to ask you the analyst questions since you're watching the landscape. Sue wants to jump in, but I want to get this out. So observability became a category at a network management. I mean, network management was like this boring kind of plotting along white space. I mean, super important. People need to do network management. Then in comes the cloud becomes a data problem. Whether it's observability you get to microservices, you got security signal FX, all these companies going public. Um, well a lot of M and a activities basically large segment, a lot of frothiness automation feels like it's growing to be big. Is there startup opportunities here? If, if platforms are becoming being a combination of things, is there room for startups and if so, what would you say? Um, those stars would look like? There are, I think >>what we're seeing is, and it speaks to the observer, observe the word you just said. Um, uh, I can, I can S I can know what it is, but I can't say it. Um, we're seeing the APM vendors move down the stack. We're seeing the infrastructure monitoring vendors move up the stack and in the middle we're seeing them both try to automate the same things. Um, you cannot pull off some of the infrastructure as code automation that we need to pull off without observability, but you can't get that observability unless you are able to pull it from the top of the stack. Um, what we're going to see is consolidation and we're already starting to see it, um, where you're gonna have different groups come together and say, why did have to tools to do this? Why not do one? Um, the reason why you do multiple tools today is because no one is truly strong at the entire stack. >>A lot of the folks that are going down the stack to say that they're not quite infrastructure automation players just yet, but watch this space, they will eventually, Oh, this change happening. Absolutely. Startups getting funded. Do you think there's opportunity to take some territory down? If there's any opportunity? And, and I'm, I'm pushing for this, it's in the AI AI ops space when it comes to these things is actually going beyond where we stand today. So I want to be clear that, um, AI ops is a great concept. The reality of is that we're still a ways away from being practical. I'd like to see not just recommendations from these tools that the startups are providing, but actually trust in them to make the changes necessary. So Chris, it sounds like the antibody automation platform announcement today fits with what you've been saying for the last couple of years. >>So the question is, what's next? Where does the Ansible need to mature and expand and you know, what, what are users asking for that Ansible is not doing today? So a couple things. Um, they did okay, but not fantastic at infrastructure modeling. Ansible. They did okay, but not amazing at what we call comprehension, which is making a call as to, you know, using AI and machine learning to make a call and what the infrastructure layers should look like. To be Frank, no one did really well in that one. So not too, not too bad on that. Um, and the other thing is they need to improve slightly. Is there integration story? They actually have a really good one. You see all the folks that are here. Um, it's just, it's, it's just as hair away from being the best. They're not quite there yet. So, and when, again, when I mean integrations, I don't mean having a laundry list of vendors you work with. >>I mean actually working with them to build code and you saw that this morning where there's the best, uh, right now surprisingly is VMware, but for you Morris built that relationship off for a long time. Um, they work right alongside Microsoft and Google and all these folks to build the code together in the industry. Uh, I think the darkest source of all is probably, and it remains to be seen if they can actually do something that is HashiCorp. Um, Terraform is an interesting player in this entire space. I actually included them in our wave on infrastructure automation platforms and you can argue is it even an automation platform? Quite frankly. Um, uh, I think HashiCorp itself was trying to figure out exactly what it is. But the bottom line is it's got tremendous Mindshare and it works well. So I think that if you watch, if you see the strategy going forward and look at, you know, what they're putting their investments into, they could become a really serious damaging player in this space. Chris Gardner, thanks for coming on the cube, sharing your insights and your research at Forrester forced wave. Check it out. Just came out a couple of months ago. Uh, infrastructure automation platforms. Q three 2019. Chris Gardner, the author here in the Q, breaking it down. I'm John furrier. There's too many men. We'll be back with more after the short break. Thank you.

>> from atop the Salesforce Tower in downtown San Francisco. It's the Q covering Accenture Innovation Date brought to you by ex center >> Hey, welcome back Your body jefe Rick here from the Cube were high atop San Francisco in the essential innovation hub. It's in the middle of the Salesforce Tower. It's a beautiful facility. They think you had it. The grand opening about six months ago. We're here for the grand opening. Very cool space. I got maker studios. They've got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. But we're here today to talk about Cloud in this continuing evolution about cloud in the enterprise and hybrid cloud and multi cloud in Public Cloud and Private Cloud. And we're really excited to have a couple of guys who really helping customers make this journey, cause it's really tough to do by yourself. CEOs are super busy. They worry about security and all kinds of other things. So centers, often a trusted partner. We got two of the leaders from center joining us today's Prasad Sankaran. He's the senior managing director of Intelligent Cloud infrastructure for Center Welcome and Larry Soccer, the global managing director. Intelligent cloud infrastructure offering from central gentlemen. Welcome. I love it. It intelligent cloud. What is an intelligent cloud all about? Got it in your title. It must mean something pretty significant. >> Yeah, I think First of all, thank you for having us, but you're absolutely Everything's around becoming more intelligent around using more automation. And the work that, you know we delivered to our clients and cloud, as you know, is the platform to which all of our clients are moving. So it's all about bringing the intelligence not only into infrastructure, but also into cloud generally. And it's all driven by software, >> right? It's just funny to think where we are in this journey. We talked a little bit before we turn the cameras on and there you made an interesting comment when I said, You know, when did this cloud for the Enterprise start? And you took it back to sass based applications, which, >> you know, you were sitting in the sales force builder. >> That's true. It isn't just the tallest building in here, and everyone all right, everyone's >> had a lot of focus on AWS is rise, etcetera. But the real start was really getting into sass. I mean, I remember We used to do a lot of Siebel deployments for CR M, and we started to pivot to sales, for some were moving from remedy into service. Now I mean, we went through on premise collaboration, email todo 360 5 So So we've actually been at it for quite a while in the particularly the SAS world. And it's only more recently that we started to see that kind of push to the, you know, the public pass, and it's starting to cloud native development. But But this journey started, you know, it was that 78 years ago that we really start to see some scale around it >> and tell me if you agree. I think really, what? The sales forces of the world and the service now is of the world off. 3 65 kind of broke down some of those initial barriers which were all really about security and security. Security secure. It's always too here where now security is actually probably an attribute >> and loud can brink Absolutely. In fact, I'm in those barriers took years to bring down. I still saw clients where they were forcing salesforce tor service. Now to put you know instances on Prime, and I think I think they finally woke up toe. You know, these guys invested ton in their security organizations. You know, there's a little of that needle in the haystack. You know, if you breach a data set, you know what you're getting after. But when you happen to sail sports, it's a lot harder. And so you know. So I think that security problems, I've certainly got away. We still have some compliance, regulatory things, data sovereignty. But I think security and not not that it's all by any means that you know, it's always giving an ongoing problem. But I think they're getting more comfortable with their data being up in the public domain, right? Not public. >> I think it also help them with their progress towards getting cloud native. So, you know, you pick certain applications which were obviously hosted by sales force and other companies, and you did some level of custom development around it. And now I think that's paved the way for more complex applications and different workloads now going into, you know, the public cloud and the private cloud. But that's the next part of the journey, >> right? So Let's back up 1/2 a step cause then, as you said, a bunch of stuff then went into Public Cloud, right? Everyone's putting in AWS and Google. Um, IBM has got a public how there was a lot more. They're not quite so many as there used to be. Um, but then we ran into a whole new home, Those of issues, right, Which is kind of opened up this hybrid cloud. This multi cloud world, which is you just can't put everything into a public clouds there certain attributes that you need to think about and yet from the application point of view, before you decide where you deploy that. So I'm just curious. If you can share now, would you guys do with clients? How should they think about applications? How, after they think about what to deploy where I >> think I'll start in the, You know, Larry has a lot of expertise in this area. I think you know, we have to obviously start from an application centric perspectives. You got to take a look at you know where your applications have to live water. What are some of the data implications on the applications or do you have by way of regulatory and compliance issues? Or do you have to do as faras performance because certain applications have to be in a high performance environment? Certain other applications don't think a lot of these factors will then drive where these applications need to recite. And then what we're seeing in today's world is really accomplish. Complex, um, situation where you have a lot of legacy, but you also have private as well as public cloud. So you approach it from an application perspective. >> Yeah. I mean, if you really take a look at Army, you look at it centers clients, and we were totally focused on up into the market Global 2000 savory. You know, clients typically have application portfolios ranging from 520,000 applications. And really, I mean, if you think about the purpose of cloud or even infrastructure for that, they're there to serve the applications. No one cares if your cloud infrastructure is not performing the absolute. So we start off with an application monetization approach and ultimately looking, you know, you know, with our tech advisory guys coming in, there are intelligent engineering service is to do the cloud native and at mod work our platforms. Guys, who do you know everything from sales forward through ASAP. They should drive a strategy on how those applications going to evolve with its 520,000 and determined hey, and usually using some like the six orders methodology. And I'm I am I going to retire this Am I going to retain it? And I'm gonna replace it with sass. Am I gonna re factor in format? And it's ultimately that strategy that's really gonna dictate a multi in and, you know, hybrid cloud story. So it's based on the applications data, gravity issues where they gonna reside on their requirements around regulatory, the requirements for performance, et cetera. That will then dictate the cloud strategies. I'm you know, not a big fan of going in there and just doing a multi hybrid cloud strategy without a really good up front application portfolio approach, right? How we're gonna modernize that >> it hadn't had a you segment. That's a lot of applications. And you know, how do you know the old thing? How do you know that one by that time, how do you help them pray or size? Where they should be focusing on. Yes, >> it. Typically, what we do is work with our clients to do a full application portfolio analysis, and then we're able to then segment the applications based on, you know, important to the business and some of the factors that both of us mentioned. And once we have that, then we come up with an approach where certain sets of applications have moved to sass certain other applications you moved past. So you know, you're basically doing the re factoring and the modernization, and then certain others, you know, you can just, you know, lift and shift. So it's really a combination off both modernization as well as migration. It's a combination off that, but to do that, you have initially look at the entire set of applications and come up with that approach. >> I'm just curious where within that application assessment, where is cost savings? Where is, uh, this is just old and where is opportunities to innovate faster? Because we know a lot of lot of talk really. Days has cost savings, but what the real advantages is execution speed if you can get it. >> If >> you could go back three or four years and we had there was a lot of CEO discussions around cost savings. I'm not really have seen our clients shift. It costs never goes away, obviously right. But there's a lot greater emphasis now on business agility. You know, howto innovate faster, get, get new capabilities, market faster to change my customer experience. So it's really I t is really trying to step up and, you know, enabled the business toe to compete in the marketplace. So we're seeing a huge shift in emphasis or focus at least starting with, you know, how do I get better business agility outta leverage to cloud and cloud native development to get there upper service levels? Actually, we started seeing increase on Hey, you know, these applications need to work. It's actress, So obviously cost still remains a factor, but we seem much more, you know, much more emphasis on agility, you know, enabling the business on giving the right service levels of right experience to the user. Little customers. Big pivot there, >> Okay. And let's get the definitions out because you know a lot of lot of conversation about public clouds. Easy private clouds, easy but hybrid cloud and multi cloud and confusion about what those are. How do you guys define them? How do you help your customers think about the definition? Yes, >> I think it's a really good point. So what we're starting to see is there were a lot of different definitions out there. But I think as I talk to my clients and our partners, I think we're all starting to come toe. You know, the same kind of definition on multi cloud. It's really about using more than one cloud. But hybrid, I think, is a very important concept because hybrid is really all about the placement off the workload or where your application is going to run on. And then again, it goes to all of these points that we talked about data, gravity and performance and other things. Other factors. But it's really all about where do you place the specific workload >> if you look at that, so if you think about public, I mean obviously gives us the innovation of the public providers. You look at how fast Amazon comes out with new versions of Lambda etcetera, so that's the innovations. There obviously agility. You could spend up environments very quickly which is, you know, one of the big benefits of it. The consumption economic models. So that is the number of drivers that are pushing in the direction of public. You know, on the private side, they're still it's quite a few benefits that don't get talked about as much. Um, so you know, if you look at it performance, you know, if you think the public world, you know, although they're scaling up larger T shirts, et cetera, they're still trying to do that for a large array of applications on the private side, you can really Taylor somethingto very high performance characteristics. Whether it's you know, 30 to 64 terabyte Hana, you can get a much more focused precision environment for business critical workloads like that article, article rack. You know, the Duke clusters everything about fraud analysis. So that's a big part of it. Related to that is the data gravity that Prasad just mentioned. You know, if I've got a 64 terrified Hana database, you know, sitting in my private cloud, it may not be that convenient to go and put get that data shared up in red shift or in Google's tensorflow. So So there's some data gravity out. Networks just aren't there. The Laden sea of moving that stuff around is a big issue. And then a lot of people of investments in their data centers. I mean, the other piece, that's interesting. His legacy, you know, You know, as we start to look at the world a lot, there's a ton of Could still living in, You know, whether it's you, Nick system, that IBM mainframes. There's a lot of business value there, and sometimes the business cases aren't aren't necessarily there toe to replace them. Right. And in world of digital, the decoupling where I can start to use micro service is we're seeing a lot of trends. We worked with one hotel to take the reservation system. You know, Rapid and Micro Service is, um, we then didn't you know, open shift couch base, front end. And now when you go against, you know, when you go and browsing properties, you're looking at rates you actually going into distributed database cash on, you know, in using the latest cloud native technologies that could be dropped every two weeks or every three or four days for my mobile application and It's only when it goes, you know, when the transaction goes back, to reserve the room that it goes back there. So we're seeing a lot of power with digital decoupling, but we still need to take advantage of, you know, we've got these legacy applications. So So the data centers air really were trying to evolve them. And really, just, you know, how do we learn everything from the world of public and struck to bring those saints similar type efficiencies to the to the world of private? And really, what we're saying is this emerging approach where I can start to take advantage of the innovation cycles that land is that you know, the red shifts the azure functions of the public world. But then maybe keep some of my more business critical regulated workloads. You know, that's the other side of the private side, right? I've got G X p compliance. If I've got hip data that I need to worry about GDP are you know, the whole set of regular two requirements Over time, we do anticipate the public guys will get much better and more compliant. In fact, they made great headway already, but they're Still not a number of clients are still, you know, not 100% comfortable from rail client's perspective. >> Gotta meet Teresa Carlson. She'll change him. Who runs that AWS Public Sector is doing amazing things, obviously with big government contracts. But but you raise real inching point later. You almost described what I would say is really a hybrid application in this thing. This hotel example that you use because it's is, you know, kind of break in the application and leveraging micro service is to do things around the core that allowed to take advantage of some this agility and hyper fast development, yet still maintain that core stuff that either doesn't need to move Works fine. Be too expensive. Drea Factor. It's a real different weight. Even think about workloads and applications into breaking those things into bits. >> And we see that pattern all over the place. I'm gonna give you the hotel Example Where but finance, you know, look at financial service. Is retail banking so open banking a lot. All those rito applications are on the mainframe. I'm insurance claims and and you look at it, the business value, replicating a lot of like the regulatory stuff, the locality stuff. It doesn't make sense to write it. There's no rule inherent business values of I can wrap it, expose it and you know the micro service's architecture now. D'oh cloud native front end. That's gonna give me a 360 view a customer, Change the customer experience. You know, I've got a much you know, I can still get that agility. The the innovation cycles by public. Bye bye. Wrapping my legacy environment >> in person, you rated jump in and I'll give you something to react to, Which is which is the single glass right now? How do I How did I manage all this stuff now? Not only do I have distributed infrastructure now, I've got distributed applications and the thing that you just described and everyone wants to be that single pane of glass Everybody wants to be the app that's upon everybody. Screen. How are you seeing people deal with the management complexity of these kind of distributed infrastructures? If you will Yeah, >> I think that that's that's an area that's, ah, actually very topical these days because, you know, you're starting to see more and more workers. Goto private cloud and so you've got a hybrid infrastructure you're starting to see move movement from just using the EMS to, you know, the cantinas and Cuban Edie's. And, you know, we talked about Serval s and so on. So all of our clients are looking for a way, and you have different types of users as well. Yeah, developers. You have data scientists. You have, you know, operators and so on. So they're all looking for that control plane that allows them access and a view toe everything that is out there that is being used in the enterprise. And that's where I think you know, a company like Accenture were able to use the best of breed toe provide that visibility to our clients. >> Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It's becoming, you know, with all the promise of cloud and all the power. And these new architectures is becoming much more dynamic, ephemeral, with containers and kubernetes with service computing that that one application for the hotel, they're actually started, and they've got some actually, now running a native us of their containers and looking at serverless. So you gonna even a single application can span that and one of things we've seen is is first. You know, a lot of our clients used to look at, you know, application management, you know, different from their their infrastructure. And the lines are now getting very blurry. You need to have very tight alignment. You take that single application. You know, if any my public side goes down or my mid tier with my you know, you know, open shipped on VM where it goes down on my back and mainframe goes down. Or the networks that connected to go down the devices that talked it. It's a very well, despite the power, very complex environment. So what we've been doing is first we've been looking at, you know, how do we get better synergy across what we you know, application service is teams that do the application manager an optimization cloud infrastructure, you know, how do we get better alignment that are embedded security, You know, how do you know what are managed to Security Service's and bringing those together? And then what we did was we looked at, you know, we got very aggressive of cloud for a strategy and, you know, how do we manage the world of public. But when looking at the public providers of hyper scale er's and how they hit incredible degrees of automation, we really looked at, said and said, Hey, look, you gotta operate differently in this new world. What can we learn from how the public guys they're doing that? We came up with this concept We call it running different. You know, how do you operate differently in this new multi speed? You know, you know, hot, very hybrid world across public, private demon, legacy environment and started looking say OK, what is it that they do? You know, first they standardize, and that's one of the big challenges you know, going to almost all of our clients in this a sprawl. And you know, whether it's application sprawl, its infrastructure, sprawl and >> my business is so unique. The Larry no business out there has the same process that we have. So we started make you know how to be >> standardized like center hybrid cloud solution apart with HP. Envy em where we, you know, how do we that was an example. So we can get thio because you can't automate unless you standardise. So that was the first thing you know, standardizing service catalog. Standardizing that, um, you know, the next thing is the operating model. They obviously operate differently. So we've been putting a lot of time and energy and what I call a cloud and agile operating model. And also a big part of that is truly you hear a lot about Dev ops right now, but truly putting the security and and operations into Deb set cops of bringing, you know, the development in the operations much tied together. So spending a lot of time looking at that and transforming operations re skilling the people you know, the operators of the future aren't eyes on glass there. Developers, they're writing the data ingestion, the analytic algorithms, you know, to do predictive operations. They're writing the automation script to take work, you know, test work out. Right. And over time, they'll be tuned in the air. Aye, aye. Engines to really optimize the environment and then finally has presided. Looted thio. Is that the platforms that control planes? That doing that? So, you know, we What we've been doing is we've had a significant investments in the eccentric cloud platform, our infrastructure automation platforms and then the application teams with it with our my wizard framework, and we've been starting to bring that together. You know, it's an integrated control plane that can plug into our clients environments to really manage seamlessly, you know, and provide, you know, automation Analytics. Aye, aye. Across APS, cloud infrastructure and even security. Right. And that, you know, that really is a iob is right. I mean, that's delivering on, you know, as the industry starts toe define and really coalesce around, eh? I ops, that's what we use. >> So just so I'm clear that so it's really your layer your software layer kind of management layer that that integrates all these different systems and provides kind of a unified view. Control, I reporting et cetera. Right >> Exactly. Then can plug in and integrate, you know, third party tools. I had to do some strategic function. >> I'm just I'm just >> curious is one of the themes that we here out in the press right now is this is this kind of pull back of public cloud app. Some of them are coming back. Or maybe it was, you know, kind of a rush. Maybe a little bit too aggressively. What are some of the reasons why people are pulling stuff back out of public clouds, that just with the wrong it was just the wrong application? The costs were not what we anticipated to be. We find it, you know, what are some of the reasons that you see after coming back in house? Yeah, >> I think it's >> a variety of factors. I mean, it's certainly cost, I think is one. So as there are multiple private options and you know, we don't talk about this, but the hyper skills themselves are coming out with their own different private options, like Aunt Ours and out pulls and other stack and on. And Ali Baba has obsessed I and so on. So you see a proliferation of that and you see many more options around private cloud. So I think the cost is certainly a factor. The second is I think data gravity is, I think, a very important point because as you're starting to see how different applications have to work together, then that becomes a very important point. The third is just about compliance, and, you know, the regulatory environment. As we look across the globe, you know, even outside the U. S. We look at Europe and other parts of Asia as clients and moving more to the cloud. You know, that becomes an important factor. So as you start to balance these things, I think you have to take a very application centric view. You see some of those some some maps moving back, and and I think that's the part of the hybrid world is that you know, you can have a nap running on the private cloud and then tomorrow you can move this. Since it's been containerized to run on public and it's, you know, it's all managed that look >> e. I mean, cost is a big factor if you actually look at it. Most of our clients, you know, they typically you were big cap ex businesses, and all of a sudden they're using this consumption consumption model. And they weren't really They didn't have a function to go and look at the thousands or millions of lines of it, right? You know, as your statement, exactly think they misjudged, you know, some of the scale on B e e. I mean, that's one of the reasons we started. It's got to be an application lead modernization that really that will dictate that. And I think in many cases, people didn't may not have thought through which application. What data? There The data, gravity data. Gravity's a conversation I'm having just by with every client right now. You know, I've got a 64 terabyte hana, and that's the core. My crown jewels. That data, you know, how do I get that to tensorflow? How'd I get that >> right? But if Andy was >> here, though, Andy would say, we'll send down the snow. The snow came from which virgin snow plows Snowball snowball. Well, they're snowballs. But we've seen the >> hold of a truck killer >> that comes out and he'd say, Take that and stick it in the cloud. Because if you've got that data in a single source right now, you can apply multitude of applications across that thing. So they you know they're pushing. Get that date end in this single source course than to move it, change it, you know you run it. All these micro lines of billing statement take >> the hotel. I mean, their data stolen the mainframe. So if they may want need to expose it? Yeah, they have a database cash, and they move it out. You know, the particulars of data sets get larger, it becomes, you know, the data. Gravity becomes a big issue. Because no matter how much you know, while Moore's law might be might have elongated from 18 to 24 months, the network will always be the bottle, Mac. So ultimately, we're seeing, you know, a CZ. We proliferate more and more data, all data sets get bigger and better than network becomes more of a bottleneck. Conned. That's a lot of times you gotta look at your applications. They have. I've got some legacy database I need to get. Thio. I need this to be approximately somewhere where I don't have, you know, high bandwith o r. Right Or, you know, highlight and see type or so egress costs a pretty big deals. My date is up in the cloud, and I'm gonna get charged for pulling it off. You know that That's been a big issue. >> You know, it's funny, I think, and I think a lot of the issue, obviously complexity building. It's a totally different building model, but I think to a lot of people will put stuff in a public cloud and then operated as if they bought it. And they're running in the data center in this kind of this. Turn it on, turn it off when you need it. Everyone turns. Everyone loves to talk about the example turning it on when you need it. But nobody ever talks about turning it off when you don't. But but the kind of clothes on our conversation I won't talk about a I and applied a I. CoSine is a lot of talk in the market place, but a time machine learning. But as you guys know pride better than anybody, it's the application of a I and specific applications, which really on unlocks the value. And as we're sitting here talking about this complexity, I can't help but think that, you know, applied a I in a management layer like your run differently, set up to actually know when to turn things on, when to turn things off when you moved in but not moved, it's gonna have to be machines running that right cause the data sets and the complexity of these systems is going to be just overwhelming. Yeah, yeah, >> absolutely completely agree with you in fact. Ah, essential. We actually referred to the Seoul area as Applied intelligence. Ah, and that's our guy, right? And, uh, it is absolutely to add more and more automation Move everything Maur toe where it's being run by the machine rather than, you know, having people really working on these things >> yet, e I mean, if you think you hit the nail on the head, we're gonna a eyes e. I mean, given how things getting complex, more ephemeral, you think about kubernetes et cetera. We're gonna have to leverage a humans or not to be able to get, you know, manage this. The environment is important, right? What's interesting way we've used quite effectively for quite some time. But it's good at some stuff, not good at others. So we find it's very good at, like, ticket triage, like ticket triage, chicken routing, et cetera. You know, any time we take over account, we tune our AI ai engines. We have ticket advisers, etcetera. That's what probably got the most, you know, most bang for the buck. We tried in the network space. Less success to start even with, you know, commercial products that were out there. I think where a I ultimately bails us out of this is if you look at the problem. You know, a lot of times we talked about optimizing around cost, but then performance. I mean, and it's they they're somewhat, you know, you gotta weigh him off each other. So you've got a very multi dimensional problem on howto I optimize my workloads, particularly. I gotta kubernetes cluster and something on Amazon, you know, sums running on my private cloud, etcetera. So we're gonna get some very complex environment. And the only way you're gonna be ableto optimize across multi dimensions that cost performance service levels, you know, and then multiple options don't do it public private, You know, what's my network costs etcetera. Isn't a I engine tuning that ai ai engines? So ultimately, I mean, you heard me earlier on the operators. I think you know, they write the analytic albums, they do the automation scripts, but they're the ultimate ones who then tune the aye aye engines that will manage our environment, right. And I think it kubernetes will be interesting because it becomes a link to the control plane optimize workload placement between >> when the best thing to you. Then you have dynamic optimization can. You might be up to my tanks at us right now, but you might be optimizing for output the next day. So exists really a you know, kind of Ah, never ending >> when you got you got to see them >> together with it. And multi dimension optimization is very difficult. So I mean, you know, humans can't get their head around. Machines can, but they need to be trained. >> Well, Prasad, Larry, Lots of great opportunities for for centuries bring that expertise to the table. So thanks for taking a few minutes to walk through some of these things. Our pleasure. Thank you. Raise Prasad is Larry. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. We are high above San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower. Theis Center. Innovation have in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time

(upbeat instrumental music) >> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, Celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. (upbeat instrumental music) Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome back everyone. theCUBE's Live coverage here in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, VMworld 2019 coverage. Dave, 10 years of Cube coverage, Yip! we started out 10 years ago. VMworld is the last show standing. Our next guest is Todd Forsythe, CMO of Veritas. Great to see you, first time on theCUBE. Thanks Todd. It is inaugural. (John laughs) Aafter 25 years in the industry, it's crazy. With your talent, I think we're going to have a good segment here. I'm sure we will. Very entertaining. No, seriously we've known each other, we were on an advisory board together. You're a prolific marketer, you do a lot of great things. You're progressive, you try new things with startups, but also you got to run a big operation. >> Todd: That's right. MarTech stacks, you like to look at platforms. This is a re-platforming of the internet we're seeing with Cloud 2.0, and I want to get your thoughts on this, because you got a unique perspective at Veritas, you know, an older brand modernized in real time. That's right. New products refresh in a massively changing growth, still growth market. It's a data business. Absolutely. That's right, a 100%. So what's your take on this? As you look at the landscape, you've got the modern brand, you got to take it out there, new products. You know it's interesting, I had a really fascinating conversation yesterday with a customer, and the customer said, "You know, I was walking through the expo hall, "and I saw Amazon, I saw Microsoft, "I saw IBM, I saw Dell Technologies, "I saw Kubernetes, I saw Pure, I saw Nutanix, "I thought I was in my own data center." And it's interesting, I think about our business, and in our business, data doesn't care. Like you know data doesn't care if you're running a modern architecture. Data doesn't care if you're running Legacy. So what we're really focused on is helping companies manage data in highly complex, and extremely demanding environments regardless of their infrastructure. And Cloud 2.0 speaks to the complexity of that, because you know, these, and we were talking earlier with VMware about these categories that used to exist, these Gartner Magic Quadrants. You know, you can't put something that's not a silo in a silo, you're horizontally disrupting. And data does that, data has to move around and it's got to move everywhere. So there's no more silo boxes of categories. A 100% agree, you know it's interesting, we launched Enterprise Data Services earlier this year, and that was the precise reason why, because we've relooked at what data protection is. Data protection is no longer backing up your data from a cloud to a cloud from your on Prime, it's a much broader category. It covers how your data becomes available, how resilient you are, understanding where your data is, how it's categorized so you can respond to ransomware attacks, manage regulations around the world. So our view of data protection is a platform that is horizontal and cuts across. Well you guys, I mean the heritage of Veritas is the original data management company, right? Yeah. With no hardware agenda, and so my question for you, Todd, is what attracted you to Veritas? Softball question, so the most amazing customers any company could possibly imagine, Global 2000, the top telecommunications companies, the top banks, top stock exchanges. Secondly a product strategy that's really zoned in, back to your point about this, a platform that cuts across all of these diverse technologies and solves problems for customers that abstracts them from the complex environments that they're in so they could focus on outcomes, and Greg has done an amazing job recruiting a top notch leadership team. So it was really great product, good leaders. Okay now, follow up is you guys, you know, number one, top anyway, right and with Gartner Magic Quadrant, everybody wants a piece of your hide, (chuckles) the whole industry is coming at you. So, what's the sort of messaging strategy to keep top spot from both outward facing and also product development? Sure, sure. So we look at two types of competitors. Competitors that are offering point solutions, predominately playing in the mid-market, and when you're a large financial institution, and you have a highly complex environment, you're in a multi-cloud world, and you can't afford to have a siloed backup data. So you need to understand how your data is classified, where it's stored. So if you're responding to ransomware, and that ransomware attack is targeted to a specific server, you need to know if you have PII there, or if you have cat pictures there. If you have cat pictures there, then, (chuckles). >> John: Let 'em have it. Let 'em have it, exactly. (John laughs) So our platform cuts across protection, availability, and insights, which categorizes your data. So the data gets categorized in NetBackup, extends to the analytics platform, so you know where your data is, and you could take action on your data. The hard question of the day, instead of a softball I'll give you a hard one, you got to refresh the brand of Veritas has got a lot of pros and cons. The pros are, you know, well-known, a lot of customers, I got a customer question later, but the brand is important, because you have the new modern platform products, platform and products. Yeah, yeah. You got to get the name, Veritas has old meaning. You have a lot of older customers, you have legacy customers. How are you going to go out there and refresh? Is there any new plans there? We have a ton of plans. You know, we have the product, we have the customers. The product, the platform product is amazing. We are a quiet company, so we need to be noisier in the marketplace, and we need to insert ourselves into relevant conversations that are top of mind with CEOs and CIOs, whether it's ransomware. If you look at all of the ransomware attacks, It's a huge opportunity I read like two weeks ago in the State of Texas there were 10, 15 municipalities that were attacked. At the same time. At the same time! and we have a solution that can help customers recover from ransomware, so we have to insert ourselves in those dialogues because we have a very, very specific point of view that can help customers. Well but to John's point, right? Everybody that you compete with will say, we have a solution that, you know, helps solve ransomware. So, how do you separate from the pack? Like I said, everybody's trying to take pick you off. You know, we want a piece of that install base, right? 'Cause you got to keep the install base, and you got to keep growing, right? I'll lay down the gauntlet. I would love any competitor to showcase how they can support 500 workloads, a 150 storage targets, 60 cloud providers, at enterprise scale with a high degree of reliability. Our differentiator is we can cut across these very complex, very demanding IT environments, at scale. I want to get your thoughts on the customer journey question, because I think, you know, you mentioned the customer base, we've been following what you guys do. I mean I ran, I was in Bahrain for a regional Amazon event I was covering in the Middle East, and in the exhibit was this Veritas, and they recognized, hey, there's theCUBE guy. I was like, hey, thanks for watching. But seriously, you guys are everywhere. You got huge customers, but you probably have a lot of customers that are trying to go from here to there, VMware was talking almost specifically around, you know, you got the enterprise scale world, and they want that cloud Nirvana, and then there's that missing middle in between. So, you probably have a lot of transformational stories. What is the patterns of customer profile that you see? Some of them making the journey? Some of them are having a hard time? What's the state of the mind of the customer that you guys have? Well, we are definitely seeing a hybrid, multi-cloud world as you've heard here this week. 52% Of our customers are running in a hybrid cloud environment, and we have a core relationship with their legacy infrastructure, and our customers are asking our help to extend their data protection, and their NetBackup environment into the cloud, to backup the cloud, and across new modern workloads. So our customers are pulling us into their environments to do more. And that's cloud and hybrid basically. Cloud and hybrid. Public cloud and on premises. And our customers are also realizing that they're responsible for backing up their own data in the cloud. There's this misperception in the industry that if I move to a cloud provider, the cloud provider will manage my data, when in actuality you are still responsible for your data. You know, Amazon with security has a shared responsibility model. They say, okay, we protect the EC2, the infrastructure for S3, et cetera. You're responsible for pretty much everything else. And I think that you could draft off that message. Yeah, yeah! You guys too, a couple of years ago, had a great event call Veritas Vision where everybody came in, and then you changed that. Now you sort of go to where the customers are, and I'm wondering, how's that working out? It predated you. Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! So I won't ask you why that decision was made, but you know, how's it working out? I mean, a company like yours, there was like four, 5,000 people there, it was a really good event. So, a great question, and a highly relevant question, because we're just about to launch our series. So, you know, having run large, large, large user conferences, and you look at distribution of your customers and, you know, you typically find that 80% of your customers are coming from the US. You look at our customer base, global international customers. We have a high percentage of customers that are outside of the U.S. So, our strategy is let's take our user conference, let's take our message, let's take our value proposition to the customer. So, we are kicking off next month an entire series around the world, Germany, Paris, Rome, Seoul, Bali, Singapore, Melbourne, our vision series, where it's our anti-user conference. We're taking content directly to our customers. Is this regional or are those cities based? How is that segment? City based. So it's like an Amazon Summit kind of thing you go to? Yeah, yep. Okay so as a follow-up. So, as a seasoned pro in this space, why either, or, why not do both? I mean there's a budget obviously is one thing, it's expensive to run these events, I get it, but. I would prefer to put more money to where the customer is at. The field, kind of. Yeah, into the fields, you know, one of the life lessons of being a marketer is go to where the customer is. Don't try to get the customer to come to you. Well, your head of sales will love that message, you're going well. (Todd laughs) So our strategy is to go where the customer is. Yeah, and that does help sales actually. So, while you're on that point, you're a very progressive marketer, for the folks that don't know you, I'll share with them that, you know, you like to try things, and you love start-ups, and you love to promote new things. The marketing stack, I've said on theCUBE, and we'd love to have you challenge us if you want, love to debate it, I said, the MarTech Stack just didn't pan out. I mean, it worked? No, no, it didn't, no! Did it work? Is it evolving? Is it siloed? Is the cloud changing the MarTech Stack? So again, pretty aggressive statement, but my point is, email marketing was great for that generation, still is. There's new organic flows, maybe I'm biased, but I'd love to get your thoughts. How is the marketing tech world evolving with cloud computing? So, I'm going to say something provocative. >> John: Okay, all right, here we go. I think the CRM industry has gotten B2B marketing wrong. What I mean by that is you look at most CRM capabilities in B2B and they're focused on an individual. They're focused on a lead, they're focused on nurturing an individual, but if you look at our customers and enterprise, individuals don't buy, buying groups, committees, and accounts buy. So where we're focused is looking at accounts, and understanding account company based behavior that shows buying intent and triggers, which then initiate our marketing. So it's not built around a lead, it's built around-- >> John: So account based marketing? Account based marketing, but account based insight and intelligence around, is there a project or buying opportunity? And you know our good friends at Manigo, that's what they do, which is AI driven, trigger-based marketing. And that's where I think the industry is going. And what's your thoughts on organic marketing, because one of the things that's hot, is we live this world with theCUBE, and we've been kind of pioneering this model where co-creating content together and pushing it out into these digital streams is an organic process. It's technically earned media and PR parlance, but we're seeing the evolution of the CMO-like action around storytelling, right? And so, like community based storytelling, it's an organic function, it's hard to control. You can't just buy it, it's got to be kind of nurtured or enabled. That's right. What's your view on that? Because this is an emerging trend we're seeing, VM were just reorganizing a whole storytelling integrated group of PR pros, that are acting like the marketing, in their marketing. Well you know, one of the most active, customer segments we have is our VOX Community, and if you think to your point about co-creation of content in collaboration, our VOX Community collaborates on solving problems that customers have, they call that-- >> John: Can you take a minute to explain, what is VOX Community to us? VOX is a community of our technical users, where they help each other share best practices and solve problems. >> Dave: A lot of how-to? A lot of how-to-- Not Vox Media. Not Vox Media, correct. Just need to make sure to get that out there. Forums, there's videos. Is this your community, or is it third-party? Veritas. Okay, Veritas. It's a Veritas community, yeah. And then to your other point, John, the marketing world has changed. We've quickly moved into a world where we now have an anonymous relationship with our customer, with email, with direct mail. Yeah, we're always driving to registration to capture a name, that world is long gone. A Facebook show that's been weaponized, so you know. Yeah, that's right. It's the data business, at the end of the day. The user experience is horrible, right? Everybody hates that, and so yeah, there are other ways now you can use data, you can infer. Yeah, that's right, exactly. You can read the tea leaves, and probably make a pretty high prediction, or highly accurate prediction. What is the most under reported trend that you think marketers should look at in terms of capabilities that are working out in the field for you? I would say the ability to leverage predicative analytics, call it AI or machine learning, understand what's happening at an account, and whether there's a buying trigger. I think accessing that information, learning from that information in terms of how should you initiate a selling motion, and then enabling the sales force with that intelligence, I think is a wide open territory. All right, we got a-- So a couple of other things. If I can? Yeah! Just to get it in. So you guys made a big platform enhancements a couple of years ago, and then a big eight dot, whatever it was, eight dot something, two, three, five. I think it was 8.2. Customer momentum, can you update us on that? Maybe even customer examples, and then I've got a partner question for you. Yeah, so I talked about the value of the platform, and we'll take Renault as an example. So Renault, a NetBackup customer, Renault wanted to make their virtualized SAP environment highly available, and they looked at a variety of different solutions, and they looked at some solutions that were homegrown and others, and they realized just extending the Veritas platform was faster time to market, 60% cost savings. So, there's a perfect example of a customer leveraging our platform play. And a couple partner questions. So, you know, we're here at VMworld, so your VMware partnership obviously pretty important, and then we're at Pure Accelerate next month, you guys are there, you got a big presence there, I know you got a tight partnership with them. That's right. Give us the partner update. Partner update, so we have very solid relationships with Amazon, Microsoft, VMware, Google, Nutanix, Pure, and that's where we're really doubling down in terms of technology integration, joint go-to-market. >> Dave: Great. And the community site is vox.veritas.com, I just was checking it out. Thank you for the plug. There's a church one, there's a religious one, not to be confused with Vox Media, so just want to make sure everyone got that URL. We think community is super important. Thanks for coming on theCUBE Excellent! and sharing your insights. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you. Todd Forsythe, CMO of Veritas. More live coverage of VMworld after this short break. (upbeat dance music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> From the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering HoshoCon 2018 brought to you by Hosho. >> OK, welcome back everyone. We're live in Las Vegas for HoshoCon. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE. This is the first inaugural security conference around blockchain. Our next guest is John Kirch, who's the Chief Evangelist for Sentinel Protocol. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. Hey, it's great to be here, John. Thank you very much for inviting me. >> I love the shirt, I got my CUBE shirt here. You got your shirt on. Cool crowd here. So, before you get into some of the things you guys are working on, what's the scene here like, for people who aren't here, this is the first ever blockchain security conference around in the industry. What are the type of people that are here? And what's going on? Why is this important? >> Well, that's a really good question. I mean, I can think back and I remember meeting the president of Hosho. For the first time back in New York at Consensus. And he was giving a presentation, and I thought it was fantastic presentation, but we broke ice, we shook hands. And then we bumped into each other again in Soul. And then I was also talking to Tim Draper not too long ago. And Tim said, he was coming out here to Las Vegas to give a presentation. And he is one of our key investors. So we thought, it would be a good idea for us to show up as well. And we believe that many times in trade shows and other types of seminar series, there's too much emphasis on fintech and not on security. And the reason why I say that, is basically in the blockchain crypto world, right now one of the major challenges holding back the growth and the success is the lack of security. Not in a core blockchain technology, but in the Dapps and in the other connected applications. People are getting hacked. And there's different types of hackings, everything from Phishing, to malware, to DNS engine hacking, to smart contracts, web applications, I mean. >> The surface area is large. >> It, many different vectors, and it's complex. Something needs to be done about it in order to unlock the potential of blockchain crypto. >> Yeah, and I also love this event because one, it's, well first of anything is always good because it's present on creation, and you don't know, there might be another one, if it's around the next year or not. But I think this one seems like it's got the right people at it that it would grow. Because, remember. >> Yeah. >> The security is the number one problem, it should be seamless, it's complicated, multiple keys to deal with, multiple chains, never mind in the surface area for hacking. So I think blockchain is going to be a sea-change. We all know that, all tech alpha entrepreneurs are getting that. The complexity around the software is the key. What do you guys, how do you guys look at this? Because you guys are in the business to solve this problem. >> Right. >> What's the answer here? >> Well, we'd look at it from a experience point of view of cybersecurity. What I mean by that is that we have a lot of people on the team that come from companies like Palo Alto Networks, and F5, and Fortinet, I come from Darktrace, and other cybersecurity companies as well. But we'd look at it from the point of view, what did we do in the past, what were the problems, how can we leverage these technologies. What's wrong with the stuff that we did before, and how can we correct those gaps and provide a better product that's more usable, easier to install, and then has the multi-vector analysis capabilities to do the, not just antivirus, for instance, but how about AI, machine learning for detecting new anomalies and behavior or newer threats and attacks, or sandboxing. But how do we solve the problem is really our main focus. >> So I got to ask you question. A lot of people in the industry that are smart or trying to attack this problem, there's two schools of thoughts. We are going to get the software, going to get to the AI, got to do all the stuff over here, and then there's radical view is, Hey, the old model isn't working for blockchain, 'cause it's a different architecture, it's decentralized, so you can't just take network protocol stacks and say, Hey this is your security stack in the old network model to decentralize. So it needs a redo. >> Right. >> A refresh or a do-over. >> Right, right. >> So, this is, seems to be tension that's productive but still contentious. >> Right. >> What's the answer, because your old Juniper, Cisco switches might not be the perimeter-based firewall model, >> I'd love that question. >> We need a do-over or not? >> So, we are the world's first crowdsourced threat intelligence platform. I didn't say product, I said platform. And that means multiple various different types of products on our platform, but in addition to that, one of the biggest problems today is the need to update. Let's say, if you're looking at things from an antivirus point of view, if you haven't updated your database, your system, then you've got vulnerabilities that you haven't addressed. And so we don't need to be updated. Our system is running on a decentralized blockchain, and therefore is connected to APIs, to different types of endpoints. We are platform-agnostic, so we could connect to IoT-type devices or, you know, other types of, mobile telephones, or to PCs, servers, and so on. And, by having this collective cybersecurity intelligence, by definition, that means we have a richer, wider database of more information, than if you license a product from, let's say, any one of the antivirus vendors. You get that company's intelligence and support services only. But we're doing it, where we're taking company A plus B, plus C, plus this white hat hacker, plus this individual here, and we're, basically, combining all that together and offering it to our clients. >> And so, is it the single source of truth or knowledge around trust, how's the trust factor come in. 'Cause, if I'm a company I want to know that everything I'm running is updated. I want to know what it is first, and then it's updated. >> And you know, in this decentralized trustless world, there is, from our point of view, a need for an organization that can be trusted by people who have been hacked or experienced suspicious activity. So, we are addressing that, so we have a team of people called the Sentinels, and they are tested and certified by our internal cybersecurity experts, as having the capabilities and the knowledge and experience to contribute. And when those people make contributions, in terms of cybersecurity intelligence, we award them with points, and those points can be converted to fiat or into other crypto tokens. >> So you're tokenizing the contribution. >> We are. >> Relative to the crowdsourcing. >> Exactly. >> So this is like CrowdStrike, or is it different? >> Oh, it's different, I think, from CrowdStrike, because CrowdStrike, while it's a very good company and very good product, what we're doing is that we're combining blacklist with whitelist and we're providing the reporting service. And so, and we're running it on a blockchain, and the blockchain has certain elements that are very very good in terms immutability, or a very high type of resilience factor, or traceability, and so we're really taking our product and focusing it on the blockchain crypto world, but quite frankly, what we're building, because we're utilizing the technology in the optimal manner, it is also applicable to the conventional cybersecurity world too. And I expect that it'll be very commonly used there tomorrow. >> So, it's portable in the sense of the function. You can actually bring this to the class of cybersecurity, known detection type identification. >> I could be using it for Goldman Sachs or Bank of America, or, let's say, this hotel. >> Some of the global cybersecurity landscape, how would you, you know, if someone's putting their toe in the water for the first time. You're obviously in the trenches doing cutting edge work, certainly folks in Washington, D.C., around the world, have cyber conversations, from general Keith Alexander, there's new companies got some interesting things going on there. To kind of grokking it, what's so this, there's crowdsourcing, how would you brake up the cybersecurity market, 'cause cyber intelligence is a big part of regional cloud deployments now, Amazon's going to have a region in the Middle East. I'm sure they got their DNS monitored well. But you have network points and you have software running on them. How is the market sliced up? Is there categories, like, that are cleanly defined? How do you view that? >> Well, you know, I look at things from a point of view of having started in the cybersecurity world, John, back in 1998. And that was when I introduced the company called WatchGuard to the Japanese market, and also did that in Korea as well. But we pioneered the use of Linux appliances. Would you believe that? (John laughing) And we also pioneered managed security services. And so, one of the things that I learned over time as the cybersecurity world increased in complexity, I mean, back there it was easy, all you needed was an antivirus and you needed network firewall. >> And you had proprietary software too, open source wasn't as prevalent. >> Exactly, but things keep on getting ratcheted up, the complexity factor is growing. And now we look at cybersecurity and there are so many different types of products and services. And so it really comes down to understanding the security policy of the end user, of the organization or the individual. What type of PC they're using? Is it IBM, is it Apple? For them putting together a security policy and then bringing in different types of products that, basically, help that individual or that organization to satisfy that policy. And then tuning that over time. Most people don't think about that part, but the tuning process is also very important. So, and then educating people too, so. >> What's a number one industry problem that industry needs to solve as an industry, and then, what is the biggest concern that end users or organizations will have? Well, I think that biggest problem out there right now that hasn't been solved, is what's going on in front of our very eyes, this, the hacking of these exchanges and wallets. I mean, those organizations have lost now over three billion dollars, cumulative over the past few years, and then over one billion dollars this year. I mean, that's a lot of money. >> It's a lot of cash. >> And somebody needs to do something. >> And nobody knows where it goes, I mean, >> Well, actually we do know where it goes. Because, actually, that's the video I wanted to show today after my presentation, but there just wasn't enough time. We analyzed the Zaif hacking that happened just a few weeks ago. >> How much did they take? >> It was about 60 million dollars. But we analyzed that, and using crowdsourced information, we analyzed the transactions and so forth, and we found, believe it or not, that a large portion of those stolen Bitcoins were washed and went through Binance, the world's largest crypto exchange. And so, if they utilized our technology, to understand that the coins that are going through them were stolen, we would do a lot to increase the cost factor for monetizing stolen Bitcoins, we would help Binance to protect themselves. >> So the laundering of the coins, >> Yes. >> You could, basically, put a penalty on that, or >> Well, I don't look at it from a penalty point of view. I look at it from the point of view of helping people to make transactions that are kosher, that meet with their corporate policy, that comply with law, that enable them to ensure, that what they are doing is correct. >> So, you tracked the address, how do you know they are being washed, from that specific >> We, basically, track the addresses, we were able to track the addresses and I can show you a video later, if you like to, where we did just that. >> Yeah, I would like to get a copy of that. >> And the information, this is on the blockchain, show that the coins went through Binance. >> So, meaning the old classic IT operations, you always had the network management's piece, this is, again, can be a big part of traceability and accountability piece of it. >> Correct. >> This is important. >> Yeah, in fact, you know, it's really important that when you think about this world. For instance, if I were to give you five dollars. >> Thanks. >> And you were to get ripped off, and somebody took that five dollars from you, how would, John, how would you trace that five dollars? >> I would track the guy around that had stole it, find out where it is, but if I don't know who's took it, then... >> If you went to the police and ask them for help, do you think they could help you analyze and trace that and audit? >> Well, in San Francisco they break into cars and just take whatever they want. The police don't even show up. >> Right, but that's relying on luck, do you know, did he open the right car, >> I wouldn't. I wouldn't know who had this. >> But, you know, that's one of the great things is that with the blockchain technology, if you use it correctly, you can trace, many times, not all the time. But it does offer us very... >> 'Cause there's a digital footprint. >> Yeah. >> There's definitely a traceability aspect. >> And that's one of the nice advantages. So, I'd rather give you Bitcoin than the five-dollar bill. >> Yeah, I'll take the Bitcoin, it probably is worth more than the five. Money is going away, paper money, I don't now have a need for. Talk about the aspect of Bitcoin in cryptocurrency, as it relates to the funding of security attacks, because that's been a big concern, people trying to figure that out. Have you guys made any progress on tracking the funding, the underground funding for security attacks. >> Well, when you think about it, and when you think about the funding of security attacks, it's now teams, and a lot of these teams are very well trained and educated. >> And they're making some good money too. >> Yeah, and so they're making good money, they've monetized this. And all it takes is one time that they break in. And, so, once they break in, and you're compromised, so you have to defend every every time, and do it well, but they only need to break in once. But in terms of that, >> One bad day. >> The one bad day. >> One bad second. >> And your company's gone. >> Yeah. >> But the funding of these endeavors is getting more and more sophisticated, the money involved is becoming much much more bigger, and we need to ratchet up our defenses, so that we can provide an adequate response. >> So, what is the answer for me, let's just say, hypothetically, you know, I get, you know, 50 million in Bitcoin for theCUBE bank, for our community, and going to use that Bitcoin to have people have flourish with content, and I got to store it somewhere. >> Yeah. >> What do I do? >> Well. >> What's my answer? Do I call Binance and say, Hey if you going to wash and launder that, I might as well put it with you, because if you're the home for all the money. >> Well, I think that the optimal solution is to get it off the network, put it into a cold wallet, and safeguard that private key in a way that is very very secure. Do not leave it, you know, on your PC, don't tape it to your screen, but basically safeguard that privat key very well. Put it into a deposit box at a bank, that might be a good idea. >> Or multiple deposit boxes spread across. >> Yeah. >> With instructions, in case, >> But don't leave it, don't leave it in your wallet >> Yeah. >> And don't leave it on, writing on the chalkboard either, above your desk. >> Yeah (chuckling). >> But, I mean, basically, >> Or don't write it down where the surveillance cameras watching you write it down. >> And you might want to use a multisig wallet as well, and that will also increase the security as well. >> All right, well, what's the story with you guys? Give us a quick update on the Sentinel Protocol, the company. How big are you guys? You mentioned Draper funded you guys. What's the status? >> Well, you know, we started earlier this year, back in January, and now we have 30 security professionals, our headquarters are in Singapore, we have another big office up in Seoul, Korea, we have a third office in Tokyo. We now have over 42 partners. I'm very proud to say that we've got, amongst those partners, at least 10 exchanges and wallets signed on with us directly, that are very interested in using our technology, integrated into their applications. >> Yeah. >> And so, >> And why they work with you, for a hedge, for security, for insurance, what's the rationale? It's forensics, for data, what's the value for them? >> Once they've been hacked, it's pretty hard to recover. A lot of these companies that are hacked, in fact, it ends with the company closing, or being sold. So, basically, what they're trying to do is leverage our security to detect the threats and the attacks, you know, in a proactive online manner before they get damaged. And then, by doing that, they can enhance their branding, that's services they're providing to their clients, and they can also help to maximize the stability and growth of their organization, as well as, >> It's a heat shield. >> The future life. >> It's a shield for them. >> It's a shield, yes. >> So they're being proactive on the security front. >> Exactly. >> So minimize any damages that potentially could get through. >> You know, right now, John, unfortunately, if you get hacked, it's a wild, wild West, it's every man up to himself. >> Yeah, it's a total stage coach. >> Nobody's going to help you. >> With the mask on, no one knows who it is. You got to do some sort of real forensics and get lucky. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like it's hit or miss, right? >> Yeah, if you get lucky, you're a lucky man, I'll tell you, because most of the people out there are not getting lucky. >> Yeah. So, we're working together with our partners to, basically, solve this problem. >> And how much money did you guys raise? >> We raised approximately eight million dollars, but it was 25,000 Ethereum. >> OK, congratulations. >> Not at all, thank you very much. >> Well thanks for coming on. Great to meet you last night at dinner. Security is at the top of the agenda. We are here, this is theCUBE coverage, part of our ongoing 2018 blockchain cryptocurrency, now digital money coverage. Of course, as you know, we've been covering Bitcoin and blockchain on our blog since 2011, and more coverage here at HoshoCon, the first security conference dedicated to discuss security on the blockchain and the new digital assets that is now money. I'm John Furrier, stay with us for more after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are winding down a very busy day here at the Conga Connect West. We're here at Salesforce. Benioff confirmed it. In the keynote 171,000 registered people. Hard to believe. We got about 3,000 of 'em here, hosted by Conga. Free drinks, free food, a lot of entertainment. Come on down. Are open for three days and the invitation is open. We're really happy, have two very special guests here as we wrap up today. We have Matt Schulz. He's the CEO of Conga. Matt, great to see you. >> Great to be here. >> And with him as Ryan Westwood, the CEO and co founder of Simplus. Ryan great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So first off, Matt great event. You said you guys did this last year. >> Yep. >> Super way to get the community together, your customers together, your people together. Big investment. >> It's a big investment, but it's you know celebration of our customers and we have the most amazing loyal customers that I've ever seen. So we like to get together at least once a year. So this is not only our dream for celebration, but this is our Conga Connect user group here as well. >> Right. >> So now we're excited. >> So, It's interesting, right. We do a ton of shows and everybody wants to get customers on we loved to have customers on. Their hard to get on, either because they can't speak or it's your strategic advantage or, the whole bunch of reasons. I think we've only done about six or seven eight interviews here today and we had three customers on. So you know nice testament to what you guys are doing. >> Yeah. >> And Ryan. Tell us about Simplus. We've been hearing about Congo all day. Tell us about-- >> (laughs) Exactly, exactly. >> Thank you for the opportunity. Simplus started out as a Salesforce partner specifically to SteelBrick. So SteelBrick was an independent software vendor like like Conga, that was built on Salesforce and Salesforce acquired SteelBrick a few years ago. And we started out implementing SteelBrick and then when they were acquired by Salesforce, we took an investment from Salesforce and really have scaled alongside of Salesforce CPQ. But we kind of saw the emergence of CLM like we did CPQ, where we felt like this is this is the future. There is a big opportunity. There's a lot of wide space. And so when we met with Conga and the team, we were just even more excited. We knew that the technology in the market had a big opportunity, but then to have the experience of Matt and Bob and his team combined. We were excited to partner and go to market with Conga, just like we did with SteelBrick. So we've really made our brand on being kind of ahead of the market and, and really seeing what's happening and implementing the technologies that are the cutting edge of the Salesforce ecosystem. >> Yeah, and a big ecosystem it is, with the 170,000 people. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And Matt you've got this crew together. We've heard time and time again today, a lot of people that have worked with you in the past. So you've got a pretty good formula, pretty good team of folks, that you've executed with. What about the importance of that, where, you know you've got trusted lieutenants, people you've kind of done this before with to be able to bring together coalesce relatively new team to take this thing to the next level. >> Yeah, we were talking a little bit off the air that you Ryan runs a services company. So everyone believes that the people business. Right? And then they meet me, I get it in social situations, what do you do? I'm CEO of a software company. They're like, oh, wow, it'd be great to have a technology like that. I'm like, wait a second, it's a people business. We don't have, I tell our employees that every time we get together, we don't have a factory that stamping out widgets. Like this is a people business. It's an interconnect with people business, actually. So I tell people, marketing sneezes, and, sales catches a cold, >> Right. >> We are all just completely joined at the hip. So for me to have the honor of working with people, second, third, fourth time and some of these companies, it's pretty incredible, very blessed, and it doesn't hurt that they're really good at what they do. >> Yeah, well, absolutely. And Ryan, you've got an interesting take too. Your, your kind of a leadership study, or you like to interview people. You've written lot of blog posts. So what is it about, kind of the leadership study that helps keep you going. Makes you tick. >> I think, I think as an entrepreneur, you realize over time how much you don't know. And it's amazing to surround yourself with other entrepreneurs or CEOs that have experienced things you haven't. And so through those platforms, Wall Street Journal, or Forbes, the writing I've done has been amazing for education. So I think I've interviewed 60 plus tech CEOs. public, private, all kinds of different different sizes of companies and I have learned so much. It's been a it's a really fun journey. The time I've spent with Matt and Bob and some entrepreneurs are CEOs like, like they are, there's just so much to learn. So I I've enjoyed sharing my journey with other people and writing about it, through the Forbes platform for the last four or five years. >> Such a great such a great lesson. I'm reading I pulled it up. I'm reading Sapiens right now. I don't know if you've read that book. Great book by Yuval Harari. Just come out with a new called the 21st Century. He's a historian, greatest historian. And he talks about one of the big changes to go to a scientific based world was when people decided they didn't know everything, and embrace the fact that we didn't know everything. And let's ask questions. Why does the sun come up over there? Why does the moon, and where before it was, kind of a deity from on high and everything is fine. And we'll just keep it though. So I think it's a really, smart, smart strategy to say; I love to learn from the people. So what I love about this job and get to talk to smart guys like you. Let's talk about kind about kind where Conga is going. You've got all these connected parts, talk to a bunch of people, you've got brought in through acquisitions, and you've got this thread that seems to weed through all the applications, workflow leaves to the applications. You got document creation, that ties back to managing your contracts. Interesting, how those things tie together. And now AI. You're going to have this kind of AI infusion. As we talked to people all the time, no one can go buy a pocket of AI. what I want is AI infuse, in all the applications that I interface to make them work better. So that's what's coming down. You got to be excited about that. >> Oh. it's incredible. I mean, the opportunity in front of us is amazing. This is the third company. I'm old, this is the third company I've been CEO of in the electronic documents space. So I've been in this space for 20 years now. And to see where we've come in 20 years. It's inspiring. It's amazing. If you look at just the sheer numbers and size of market. Congo really started in my mind, in our mind, and our team's mind back when we were all at DocuSign. As you know, I was CEO of DocuSign. Joined the company in January 2007. And we really put the team back together. They've built the early days of that company. But we had a vision back then around digital document transformation, and it included electronic signing, but electronic signing was a small part of that. And so we've been working really hard as you mentioned, building products. We've made some key acquisitions, and we built out the first digital document transformation suite in the industry. It's all the way from collaborating, creating documents to managing those documents and negotiating them to full contract Lifecycle Management with electronic signing a state of the art orchestration layer to build those productively for customers with a AI platform Conga AI supporting the entire platform. This product groups like a dream come true for us. It's 20 years in the making. And we're so excited. We've now released with the market. Companies growing like crazy. We've been named the fastest growing ISV in the entire Salesforce ecosystem. We have the highest volume downloaded app in the entire app exchange. And we've been rated the top from a customer satisfaction standpoint, the number one ISV in the entire Salesforce ecosystem. So either a blind squirrel found a nut or we were onto something there. this is a hot market. Customers like what we're doing. We're just going to keep growing and doing more. Yeah. >> And we heard the announcement earlier today about that Salesforce, actually integrating some of your product functionality directly into some of their offerings. Which is a great validation. >> Pretty excited and proud of that. Salesforce does not, I mean, with very few exceptions, like count them on three fingers kind of exceptions that I know of ever resells anyone else's product. Let alone resell it with their co branding. And so Salesforce announced here at dream force that they're reselling Conga's products now. Conga core generation is being co branded with Salesforce in Seoul along with invoice generation. I'm stumbling over the words because it's stunning that it's been a few years in the making, but we have a really strong relationship with Salesforce. We publicly announced they're an investor in the company, we're one of their top global ISV partners. So it was it was in some regards, a very natural thing for them to say, if we're going to build our document generation around our strongest partner. >> Right. Well, it's always good to hook your wagon to a rocket ship. And as evidenced by the very large building just outside these doors. >> Yeah. >> I think you picked a good one. >> Amazing I mean we are an amazing company, so my time with them dates back to when I was CEO DocuSign. So we did when I was there we did the first ISV deal of its kind with Salesforce. This was in 2009, and then brought them in as an equity investor in the company. So I've always Salesforce have been and always near and dear to my heart and a really amazing partner. This is my I think my 10th or 11th dream force. And so I'm all in. Like, well, the company's all in this is we're all all on the Salesforce bandwagon definitely. >> It looks like the bet's paying off. So congratulations to you and the team. >> Thanks, thanks. We got a lot of work to do, but it's going well. >> All right. Well thanks for taking a few minute. Ryan, Matt, and again, congratulations on a really great event. I think that things are turning people away the door. It's like, two people out two people in. (laughs) And thanks for having us. >> Like I said, it's nice to throw a party and have somebody show up. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Thanks for your time. >> All right. He's Matt, he's Ryan I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Where it's at Conga Connect West, at Salesforce dream force in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from Toronto Canada, it's the CUBE! Covering Blockchain Futurist Conference 2018. Brought to you by the CUBE. >> Hello everyone and welcome back. This is the CUBE's exclusive coverage here in Toronto for the Blockchain Futurist Conference, we're here all week. Yesterday we were at the Global Cloud and Blockchain Summit put on by DigitalBits and the community, here is the big show around thought leadership around the future of blockchain and where it's going. Certainly token economics is the hottest thing with blockchain, although the markets are down the market is not down when it comes to building things. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, here with CUBE alumni and special guest Hartej Sawhney who is the founder of Hosho doing a lot of work on security space and they have a conference coming up that the CUBE will be broadcasting live at, HoshoCon this coming fall, it's in October I believe, welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Always great to see you man. >> What's the date of the event, real quick, what's the date on your event? >> It's October 9th to the 11th, Hard Rock Hotel & Casino, we rented out the entire property, we want everyone only to bump into the people that we're inviting and they're coming. And the focus is blockchain security. We attend over 130 conferences a year, and there's never enough conversation about blockchain security, so we figured, y'know, Defcon is still pure cybersecurity, Devcon from Ethereum is more for Ethereum developers only, and every other conference is more of a traditional blockchain conference with ICO pitch competitions. We figured we're not going to do that, and we're going to try to combine the worlds, a Defcon meets Devcon vibe, and have hackers welcome, have white hat hackers host a bug bounty, invite bright minds in the space like Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert, the founder of the Trezor wallet, RSA, y'know we've even invited everyone from our competitors to everyone in the media, to everyone that are leading the blockchain whole space. >> That's the way to run an event with community, congratulations. Mark your calendar we've got HoshoCon coming up in October. Hartej, I want to ask you, I know Dave wants to ask you your trip around the world kind of questions, but I want to get your take on something we're seeing emerging, and I know you've been talking about, I want to get your thoughts and reaction and vision on: we're starting to see the world, the losers go out of the market, and certainly prices are down on the coins, and the coins are a lot of tokens out there, >> Too many damn tokens! (laughing) >> The losers are the only ones who borrowed money to buy bitcoin. >> (laughs) Someone shorted bitcoin. >> That's it. >> But there's now an emphasis on builders and there's always been an entrepreneurial market here, alpha entrepreneurs are coming into the space you're starting to see engineers really building great stuff, there's an emphasis on builders, not just the quick hit ponies. >> Yep. >> So your thoughts on that trend. >> It's during the down-market that you can really focus on building real businesses that solve problems, that have some sort of foresight into how they're going to make real money with a product that's built and tested, and maybe even enterprise grade. And I also think that the future of fundraising is going to be security tokens, and we don't really have a viable security exchange available yet, but giving away actual equity in your business through a security token is something very exciting for sophisticated investors to participate in this future tokenized economy. >> But you're talking about real equity, not just percentage of coin. >> Yeah, y'know, actual equity in the business, but in the form of a security token. I think that's the future of fundraising to some extent. >> Is that a dual sort of vector, two vectors there, one is the value of the token itself and the equity that you get, right? >> Correct, I mean you're basically getting equity in the company, securitized in token form, and then maybe a platform like Securitize or Polymath, the security exchanges that are coming out, will list them. And so I think during the down-markets, when prices are down, again I said before the joke but it's also the truth: the only people losing in this market are the ones who borrowed to buy bitcoin. The people who believe in the technology remain to ignore the price more or less. And if you're focused on building a company this is the time to focus on building a real business. A lot of times in an up-market you think you see a business opportunity just because of the amount of money surely available to be thrown at any project, you can ICO just about any idea and get a couple a million dollars to work on it, not as easy during a down-market so you're starting to take a step back, and ask yourself questions like how do we hit $20,000 of monthly recurring revenue? And that shouldn't be such a crazy thing to ask. When you go to Silicon Valley, unless you're two-time exited, or went to Stanford, or you were an early employee at Facebook, you're not getting your first million dollar check for 15 or 20 percent of your business, even, until you make 20, 25K monthly recurring revenue. I say this on stage at a lot of my keynotes, and I feel like some people glaze their eyes over like, "obviously I know that", the majority are running an ICO where they are nowhere close to making 20K monthly recurring and when you say what's your project they go, "well, our latest traction is that we've closed about "1.5 million in our private pre-sale." That's not traction, you don't have a product built. You raised money. >> And that's a dotcom bubble dynamic where the milestone of fundraising was the traction and that really had nothing to do with building a viable business. And the benefit of blockchain is to do things differently, but achieve the same outcome, either more efficient or faster, in a new way, whether it's starting a company or achieving success. >> Yep, but at the same time, blockchain technology is relatively immature for some products to go, at least for the Fortune 500 today, for them to take a blockchain product out of R&D to the mainstream isn't going to happen right now. Right now the Fortune 500 is investing into blockchain tech but it's in R&D, and they're quickly training their employees to understand what is a smart contract?, who is Nick Szabo?, when did he come up with this word smart contracts? I was just privy to seeing some training information for multiple Fortune 500 companies training their employees on what are smart contracts. Stuff that we read four or five years ago from Nick Szabo's essays is now hitting what I would consider the mainstream, which is mid-level talent, VP-level talent at Fortune 500 companies, who know that this is the next wave. And so when we're thinking about fundraising it's the companies who raise enough money are going to be able to survive the storm, right? In this down-market, if you raised enough money in your ICO, for this vision that you have that's going to be revolutionary, a lot of times I read an ICO's white paper and all I can think is well I hope this happens, because if it does that's crazy. But the question is, did they raise enough money to survive? So that's kind of another reason why people are raising more money than they need. Do people need $100 million to do the project? I don't know. >> It's an arm's race. >> But they need to last 10 years to make this vision come true. >> Hey, so, I want to ask you about your whirlwind tour. And I want to ask in the context of something we've talked about before. You've mentioned on the CUBE that Solidity, very complex, there's a lot of bugs and a lot of security flaws as a result in some of the code. A lot of the code. You're seeing people now try to develop tooling to open up blockchain development to Java programmers, for example, which probably exacerbates the problem. So, in that context, what are you seeing around the world, what are you seeing in terms of the awareness of that problem, and how are you helping solve it? >> So, starting with Fortune 500 companies, they have floors on floors around the world full of Java engineers. Full Stack Engineers who, of course, know Java, they know C#, and they're prepared to build in this language. And so this is why I think IBM's Hyperledger went in that direction. This is why even some people have taken the Ethereum virtual machine and tried to completely rebuild it and rewrite it into functional programming languages like Clojure and Scala. Just so it's more accessible and you can do more with the functional programming language. Very few lines of code are equivalent to hundreds of lines of code in linear languages, and in functional programming languages things are concurrent and linear and you're able to build large-scale enterprise-grade solutions with very small lines of code. So I'm personally excited, I think, about seeing different types of blockchains cater more towards Fortune 500 companies being able to take advantage, right off the bat, of rooms full of Java engineers. The turn to teaching of Solidity, it's been difficult, at least from the cybersecurity perspective we're not looking for someone who's a software engineer who can teach themselves Solidity really fast. We're looking for a cybersecurity, QA-minded, quality-assurance mindset, someone who has an OPSEC mindset to learn Solidity and then audit code with the cybersecurity mindset. And we've found that to be easier than an engineer who knows Java to learn Solidity. Education is hard, we have a global shortage of qualified engineers in this space. >> So cybersecurity is a good cross-over bridge to Solidity. Skills matters. >> If you're in cybersecurity and you're a full sec engineer you can learn just about any language like anyone else. >> The key is to start at the core. >> The key is to have a QA mindset, to have the mindset of actually doing quality assurance, on code and finding vulnerabilities. >> Not as an afterthought, but as a fundamental component of the development process. >> I could be a good engineer and make an app like Angry Birds, upload it, and even before uploading it I'll get it audited by some third party professional, and once it's uploaded I can fix the bugs as we go and release another version. Most smart contracts that have money behind them are written to be irreversible. So if they get hacked, money gets stolen. >> Yeah, that's real. >> And so the mindset is shifting because of this space. >> Alright, so on your tour, paint a picture, what did you see? >> First of all, how many cities, how long? Give us the stats. >> I just did about 80 days and I hit 10 countries. Most of it was between Europe and Asia. I'll start with saying that, right now, there's a race amongst smaller nations, like Malta, Bermuda, Belarus, Panama, the island nations, where they're racing to say that "we have clarity on regulation when it comes to "the blockchain cryptocurrency industries," and this is a big deal, I'd say, mainly for cryptocurrency exchanges, that are fleeing and navigating global regulation. Like in India, Unocoin's bank has been shutdown by the RBI. And they're going up against the RBI and the central government of India because, as an exchange, their banks have been shut down. And they're being forced to navigate waters and unique waves around the world globally. You have people like the world's biggest exchange, at least by volume today is Binance. Binance has relocated 100 people to the island of Malta. For a small island nation that's still technically a part of the European Union, they've made significant progress on bringing clarity on what is legal and what is not, eventually they're saying they want to have a crypto-bank, they want to help you go from IPO to ICO from the Maltese stock exchange. Similarly also Gibraltar, and there's a law firm out there, Hassans, which is like the best law firm in Gibraltar, and they have really led the way on helping the regulators in Gibraltar bring clarity. Both Gibraltar and Malta, what's similar between them is they've been home to online gambling companies. So a lot of online casinos have been in both of their markets. >> They understand. >> They've been very innovative, in many different ways. And so even conversations with the regulators in both Malta and Gibraltar, you can hear their maturity, they understand what a smart contract is. They understand how important it is to have a smart contract audited. They already understand that every exchange in their jurisdiction has to go through regular penetration testing. That if this exchange changes its code that the code opens it up to vulnerabilities, and is the exchange going through penetration testing? So the smaller nations are moving fast. >> But they're operationalizing it faster, and it's the opportunity for them is the upside. >> My only fear is that they're still small nations, and maybe not what they want to hear but it's the truth. Operating in larger nations like the United States, Canada, Germany, even Japan, Korea, we need to see clarity in much larger nations and I think that's something that's exciting that's going to happen possibly after we have the blueprint laid out by places like Malta and Gibraltar and Bermuda. >> And what's the Wild West look like, or Wild East if you will in Asia, a lot of activity, it's a free-for-all, but there's so much energy both on the money-making side and on the capital formation side and the entrepreneurial side. Lay that out, what's that look like? >> By far the most exciting thing in Asia was Korea, Seoul, out of all the Asian tiger countries today, in August 2018, Seoul, Korea has a lot of blockchain action going on right now. It feels like you're in the future, there's actually physical buildings that say Blockchain Academy, and Blockchain Building and Bitcoin Labs, you feel like you're in 2028! (laughs) And today it's 2018. You have a lot of syndication going on, some of it illegal, it's illegal if you give a guarantee to the investor you're going to see some sort of return, as a guarantee. It's not illegal if you're putting together accredited investors who are willing to do KYC and AML and be interested in investing a couple of hundred ETH in a project. So, I would say today a lot of ICOs are flocking to Korea to do a quick fundraising round because a lot of successful syndication is happening there. Second to Korea, I would say, is a battle between Singapore and Hong Kong. They're both very interesting, It's the one place where you can find people who speak English, but also all four of the languages of the tiger nations: Japanese, Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean, all in one place in Hong Kong and Singapore. But Singapore, you still can't get a bank account as an ICO. So they're bringing clarity on regulation and saying you can come here and you can get a lawyer and you can incorporate, but an ICO still has trouble getting a bank account. Hong Kong is simply closer in proximity to China, and China has a lot of ICOs that cannot raise money from Chinese citizens. So they can raise from anybody that's not Chinese, and they don't even have a white paper, a website, or even anybody in-house that can speak English. So they're lacking English materials, English websites, and people in their company that can communicate with the rest of the world in other languages other than Mandarin or Cantonese. And that's a problem that can be solved and bridges need to be built. People are looking in China for people to build that bridge, there's a lot of action going on in Hong Kong for that reason since even though technically it's a part of China it's still not a part of China, it's a tricky gray line. >> Right, in Japan a lot going on but it's still, it's Japan, it's kind of insulated. >> The Japanese government hasn't provided clarity on regulation yet. Just like in India we're waiting for September 11th for some clarity on regulation, same way in Japan, I don't know the exact date but we don't have enough clarity on regulation. I'm seeing good projects pop up in Korea, we're even doing some audits for some projects out of Japan, but we see them at other conferences outside of Japan as well. Coming up in Singapore is consensus, I'm hoping that Singapore will turn into a better place for quality conferences, but I'm not seeing a lot of quality action out of Singapore itself. Y'know, who's based in Singapore? Lots of family funds, lots of new exchanges, lots of big crypto advisory funds have offices there, but core ICOs, there was still a higher number of them in Korea, even in Japan, even. I'm not sure about the comparison between Japan and Singapore, but there is definitely a lot more in Korea. >> What about Switzerland, do you have any visibility there? Did you visit Switzerland? >> I was Zug, I was in Crypto Valley, visited Crypto Valley labs... >> What feels best for you? >> I don't know, Mother Earth! (laughs) >> All of the above. >> The point of bitcoin is for us to start being able to treat this earth as one, and as you navigate through the crypto circuit one thing as that is becoming more visible is the power of China partnering up with the Middle East and building a One Belt, One Road initiative. I feel like One Belt, One Road ties right into the future of crypto, and it's opening up the power of markets like the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore. >> What Gabriel's doing in the Caribbean with Barbados. >> Gabriel from Bit, yeah. >> Yeah, Bit, he's bringing them all together. >> Yeah, I mean the island nations are open arms to companies, and I think they will attract a lot of American companies for sure. >> So you're seeing certainly more, in some pockets, more advanced regulatory climates, outside of the United States, and the talent pool is substantial. >> So then, when it comes to talent pools, I believe it was in global commits for the language of Python, China is just on the verge of surpassing the United States, and there's a lot of just global breakthroughs happening, there's a large number of Full Stack engineers at a very high level in countries like China, India, Ukraine. These are three countries that I think are outliers in that a Full Stack Engineer, at the highest level in a country like India or Ukraine for example, would cost a company between $2,000 to $5,000 a month, to employ full time, in a country where they likely won't take stock to work for your company. >> Fifteen years ago those countries were outsource, "hey, outsource some cheap labor," no, now they're product teams or engineers, they're really building value. >> They're building their own things, in-house. >> And the power of new markets are opening up as you said, this is huge, huge. OK, Hartej, thanks so much for coming on, I know you got to go, you got your event October 9th to 11th in Las Vegas, Blockchain Security Conference. >> The CUBE will be there. >> I look forward to having you there. >> You guys are the leader in Blockchain security, congratulations, hosho.io, check it out. Hosho.io, October 9th, mark your calendars. The CUBE, we are live here in Toronto, for the Blockchain Futurist Conference, with our good friend, CUBE alumni Hartej. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, be right back with more live coverage from the Untraceable event here in Toronto, after this short break.