>>Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Cube's live coverage of AWS Reinvented 2022 Live from the Venetian Expo in Las Vegas. We're happy to be back. This is first full day of coverage over here last night. We've got three full days of coverage in addition to last night, and there's about 50,000 people here. This event is ready, people are ready to be back, which is so exciting. Lisa Martin here with Paul Gill and Paul, it's great to be back in person. Great to be hosting with you >>And likewise with you, Lisa. I think the first time we hosted again, >>It is our first time exactly. >>And we come here to the biggest event that the cube ever does during the year. >>It's the Super Bowl of the >>Cube. It's it's elbow to elbow out there. It's, it's, it's full tackle football, totally on the, on the floor of reinvent. And very exciting. This, you know, I've been to a lot of conferences going back 40 years, long as I can remember. Been going to tech conferences. This one, the, the intensity, the excitement around this is really unusual. People are jazzed, they're excited to be here, and that's great to see, particularly coming back from two years of isolation. >>Absolutely. The energy is so palpable. Even yesterday, evening, afternoon when I was walking in, you just feel it with all the people here. You know, we talk to so many different companies on the Q Paul. Every company these days has to be a data company. The most important thing about data is making sure that it's backed up and it's protected, that it's secure, that it can be recovered if anything happens. So we're gonna be having a great conversation next about data resiliency with one of our alumni. >>And that would be Rick Scott, Rick, excuse me, Rick Scott, >>Rick Clark. Rick Clark, say Rick Scott, cloud sales Veritas. Rick, welcome back >>To the program. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure being here, you know, thank you so much. You're definitely very excited to myself and 40,000 of my closest cousins and friends all in one place. Yep. Or I could possibly go wrong, right? So >>Yeah, absolutely nothing. So, Rick, so Veritas has made some exciting announcements. Talk to us about some of the new things that you've >>Unveiled. Yeah, we've been, we've been incredibly busy and, you know, the journey that we've been on, one of the big announcement that we made about three or four weeks ago is the introduction, really, of a brand new cloud native data management platform that we call Veritas Alta. And this is a journey that we've been on for the better part of seven years. We actually started it with our, our flex appliances. We continued, that was a containerization of our traditional net backup business in, into a highly secured appliance that was loved by our customers. And we continued that theme and that investment into what we call a scale out and scale up form factor appliance as well, what we called flex scale. And then we continued on that investment theme, basically spending over a billion dollars over that seven year journey in our cloud native. And we call that basically the Veritas altar platform with our cloud native platform. And I think if you really look at what that is, it truly is a data management platform. And I emphasize the term cloud native. And so our traditional technologies around data protection, obviously application resiliency and digital compliance or data compliance and governance. We are the only, the first and only company in the world to provide really a cloud optimized, cloud native platform, really, that addresses that. So it's been fun, it's been a fun journey. >>Talk a little bit about the customer experience. I see over 85% of the Fortune 100 trust Veritas with their data management. That's >>A big number. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it is incredible actually. And it really comes back to the Veritas older platform. We sort of built that with, with four tenants in mind, all driving back to this very similar to AWS's customer obsession. Everything we do each and every day of our waiting moments is a Veritas employee is really surrounds the customer. So it starts with the customer experience on how do they find us to, how do they procure our solutions through things like AWS marketplace and how do they deploy it? And the second thing is around really cost optimization, as we know, you know, to, to say that companies are going through a digital transformation and moving workloads to the cloud. I mean, I've got customers that literally were 20% in cloud a year ago and 80% a year later, we've never seen that kind of velocity. >>And so we've doubled down on this notion of cost optimization. You can only do that with these huge investments that I talked about. And so we're a very profitable company. We've been around, got a great heritage of over 30 years, and we've really taken those investments in r and d to provide that sort of cloud native technology to ultimately make it elastic. And so everything from will spin up and spin down services to optimize the cloud bill for our customers, but we'll also provide the greatest workload support. You know, obviously on-prem workloads are very different from cloud workloads and it's almost like turning the clock back 20 years to see all of those new systems. There's no standard API like s and MP on the network. And so we have to talk to every single PAs service, every single DB PAs, and we capture that information and protect it. So it's really has been a phenomenal journey. It's been great. >>You said this, that that al represents a shift from clouds from flex scale to cloud native. What is the difference there? >>The, the main difference really is we took, you know, obviously our traditional product that you've known for many media years, net backup. It's got, you know, tens of millions of lines of code in that. And we knew if we lifted and shifted it up into the cloud, into an I AEs infrastructure, it's just not, it obviously would perform extremely well, but it wasn't cost optimized for our customer. It was too expensive to to run. And so what we did is we rewrote with microservices and containerization, Kubernetes huge parts of that particular product to really optimize it for the cloud. And not only have we done it for that technology, what we now call alter data protection, but we've done it across our entire port portfolio. That was really the main change that we made as part of this particular transition. And >>What have you done to prepare customers for that shift? Is this gonna be a, a drop in simple upgrade for them? >>Absolutely. Yeah. In fact, one of the things that we introduced is we, we invest still very heavily with regards to our OnPrem solutions. We're certainly not abandoning, we're still innovating. There's a lot of data still OnPrem that needs to move to the cloud. And so we have a unique advantage of all of the different workload supports that we provide OnPrem. We continue that expansion into the cloud. So we, we create it as part of the Veritas AL Vision, a technology, we call it AL view. So it's a single painter glass across both OnPrem and cloud for our customers. And so now they can actually see all of their data protection, all our application availability, single collect, all through that single unified interface, which is really game changing in the industry for us. >>It's game changing for customers too, because customers have what generally six to seven different backup technologies in their environment that they're having to individually manage and provision. So the, the workforce productivity improvements I can imagine are, are huge with Veritas. >>Yeah. You you nailed it, right? You must have seen my script, but Absolutely. I mean, I look at the analogy of, you think about the airlines, what's one of the first things airlines do with efficiency? South Southwest Airlines was the best example, a standardized on the 7 37, right? And so all of their pilots, all of their mechanics, all know how to operate the 7 37. So we are doing the same thing with enterprise data protection. So whether you're OnPrem at the edge or in the cloud or even multi-cloud, we can provide that single painter glass. We've done it for our customers for 30 plus years. We'll continue to do it for another 30 something years. And so it's really the first time with Veritas altar that, that we're, we're coming out with something that we've invested for so long and put, put such a huge investment on that can create those changes and that compelling solution for our customers. So as you can see, we're pretty pumped and excited about it. >>Yes, I can >>Use the term data management to describe Alta, and I want to ask about that term because I hear it a lot these days. Data management used to be database, now data management is being applied to all kinds of different functions across the spectrum. How do you define data management in Veritas >>Perspective? Yeah, there's a, we, we see it as really three main pillars across the environment. So one is protection, and we'll talk a little bit about this notion of ransomware is probably the number one use case. So the ability to take the most complex and the biggest, most vast applications. SAP is an example with hundreds of different moving parts to it and being able to protect that. The second is application resiliency. If, if you look at the cloud, there's this notion of, of responsibility, shared responsibility in the cloud. You've heard it, right? Yep. Every single one of the cloud service providers, certainly AWS has up on their website, this is what we protect, here's the demarcation line, the line in the sand, and you, the customer are responsible for that other level. And so we've had a technology, you previously knew it as InfoScale, we now call it alter application resiliency. >>And it can provide availability zone to availability zone, real time replication, high availability of your mission critical applications, right? So not only do we do the traditional backups, but we can also provide application resiliency for mission critical. And then the third thing really from a data management standpoint is all around governance and compliance. You know, ac a lot of our customers need to keep data for five, 10 years or forever. They're audited. There's regulations and different geographies around the world. And, and those regulations require them to be able to really take control of their cloud, take control of their data. And so we have a whole portfolio of solutions under that data compliance, data government. So back to your, your question Paul, it's really the integration and the intersection of those three main pillars. We're not a one trick pony. We've been at this for a long time, and they're not just new products that we invented a couple of months ago and brought to market. They're tried and tested with eight 80,000 customers and the most complex early solutions on the planet that we've been supporting. >>I gotta ask you, you know, we talked about those three pillars and you talked about the shared responsibility model. And think of that where you mentioned aws, Salesforce, Microsoft 365, Google workspace, whatnot. Are you finding that most customers aren't aware of that and haven't been protecting those workloads and then come to you and saying, Hey guys, guess what, this is what this is what they're responsible for. The data is >>You Yeah, I, it's, it's our probably biggest challenge is, is one of awareness, you know, with the cloud, I mean, how many times have you spoken to someone? You just put it in the cloud. Your applications, like the cloud providers like aws, they'll protect everything. Nothing will ever go down. And it's kind like if you, unless your house was ever broken into, you're probably not gonna install that burglar alarm or that fire alarm, right? Hopefully that won't be an event that you guys have to suffer through. So yeah, it's definitely, it wasn't till the last year or so the cloud service providers really published jointly as to where is their responsibility, right? So a great example is an attack vector for a lot of corporations is their SAS applications. So, you know, whether it it's your traditional SA applications that is available that's available on the web to their customers as a sas. >>And so it's certainly available to the bad actors. They're gonna, where there's, there's gonna be a point they're gonna try to get in. And so no matter what your resiliency plan is, at the end of the day, you really need to protect it. And protection isn't just, for example, with M 365 having a snapshot or a recycle bin, that's just not good enough. And so we actually have some pretty compelling technology, what we call ALTA SAS protection, which covers the, pretty much the, the gamut of the major SAS technologies to protect those and make it available for our customers. So yeah, certainly it's a big part of it is awareness. Yeah. >>Well, I understand that the shared responsibility model, I, I realize there's a lot of confusion about that still, but in the SaaS world that's somewhat different. The responsibility of the SaaS provider for protecting data is somewhat different. How, how should, what should customers know about that? >>I think, you know, the, the related to that, if, if you look at OnPrem, you know, approximately 35 to 40% of OnPrem enterprise data is protected. It's kind of in a long traditional problem. Everyone's aware of it. You know, I remember going to a presentation from IBM 20 something years ago, and someone held their push hand up in the room about the dis drives and says, you need to back it up. And the IBM sales guy said, no, IBM dis drives never crash. Right? And so fast forward to here we are today, things have changed. So we're going through almost a similar sort of changes and culture in the cloud. 8% of the data in the cloud is protected today, 8%. That's incredible. Meaning >>That there is independent backup devoted >>To that data in some cases, not at all. And something many cases, the customer just assumes that it's in the cloud, therefore it's always available. I never have to worry about protecting it, right? And so that's a big problem that we're obviously trying to, trying to solve. And we do that all under the umbrella of ransomware. That's a huge theme, huge investment that, that Veritas does with regards to providing that resiliency for our >>Customers. Ransomware is scary. It is becoming so prolific. The bad actors have access to technologies. Obviously companies are fighting them, but now ransomware has evolved into, no longer are we gonna get hit, it's when, yeah, it's how often it's what's the damage going to be. So the ability to help customers recover from ransomware, that resiliency is table stakes for businesses in any industry these days. Does that, that one of the primary pain points that your customers are coming to you with? >>It's the number one pain point. Yeah, it's, it's incredible. I mean, there's not a single briefing that our teams are doing customer meetings where that term ransomware doesn't come up as, as their number one use case. Just to give you something, a couple of statistics. There's a ransomware attack attack that happens 11 times a second right around the globe. And this isn't just, you know, minor stuff, right? I've got friends that are, you know, executives of large company that have been hit that have that some, you know, multimillion dollar ransom attack. So our, our play on this is, when you think about it, is data protection is the last line of defense. Yes. And so if they break through, it's not a case, Lisa, as you mentioned, if it's a case of when Yeah. And so it's gonna happen. So one of the most important things is knowing how do you know you have a gold copy, a clean copy, and you can recover at speed in some cases. >>We're talking about tens of thousands of systems to do that at speed. That's in our dna. We've been doing it for many, many years. And we spoke through a lot of the cyber insurance companies on this particular topic as well. And what really came back from that is that they're actually now demanding things like immutable storage, malware detection, air gaping, right? Anomaly detection is sort of core technologies tick the box that they literally won't ensure you unless you have those core components. And so what we've done is we've doubled down on that investment. We use AI in ML technologies, particularly around the anomaly detection. One of the, the, the unique and ne differentiators that Verto provides is a ransomware resiliency scorecard. Imagine the ability to save uran a corporation. We can come in and run our analytics on your environment and kind of give you a grade, right? Wouldn't you prefer that than waiting for the event to take place to see where your vulnerability really is? And so these are some of the advantages that we can actually provide for our customers, really, really >>To help. Just a final quick question. There is a, a common perception, I believe that ransomware is an on premise problem. In fact, it is also a cloud problem. Is that not right? >>Oh, absolutely. I I think that probably the biggest attack vector is in the cloud. If it's, if it's OnPrem, you've certainly got a certain line of defense that's trying to break through. But, you know, you're in the open world there. Obviously with SAS applications in the cloud, it's not a case of if, but when, and it's, and it's gonna continue to get, you know, more and more prevalent within corporations. There's always gonna be those attack factors that they find the, the flash wounds that they can attack to break through. What we are concentrating on is that resiliency, that ability for customers to recover at speed. We've done that with our traditional appliances from our heritage OnPrem. We continue to do that with regard to resiliency at speed with our customers in the cloud, with partners like aws >>For sure. Almost done. Give me your 30 seconds on AWS and Veritas. >>We've had a partnership for the better part of 10 years. It's incredible when you think about aws, where they released the elastic compute back in 2006, right? We've been delivering data protection, a data management solutions for, for the better part of 30 years, right? So, so we're, we're Junos in our space. We're the leader in, in data protection and enterprise data protection. We were on-prem. We, we continue to be in the cloud as AWS was with the cloud service provided. So the synergies are incredible. About 80 to 85% of our, our joint customers are the same. We take core unique superpowers of aws, like AWS outposts and AWS Glacier Instant retrieval, for example, those core technologies and incorporate them into our products as we go to Mark. And so we released a core technology a few months ago, we call it ultra recovery vault. And it's an air gap, a mutable storage, worm storage, right Once, right? You can't change it even when the bad actors try to get in. They're independent from the customer's tenant and aws. So we manage it as a managed backup service for our customers. Got it. And so our customers are using that to really help them with their ransomware. So it's been a tremendous partnership with AWS >>Standing 10 years of accounting. Last question for you, Rick. You got a billboard on the 1 0 1 in Santa Clara, right? By the fancy Verto >>1 0 1? >>Yeah. Right. Well, there's no traffic. What does that billboard say? What's that bumper sticker about? Vertus, >>I think, I think the billboard would say, welcome to the new Veritas. This is not your grandfather's old mobile. We've done a phenomenal job in, in the last, particularly the last three or four years, to really reinvent ourselves in the cloud and the investments that we made are really paying off for our customers today. So I'm excited to be part of this journey and excited to talk to you guys today. >>Love it. Not your grandfather's Veritas. Rick, thank you so much for joining Paula, me on the forgot talking about what you guys are doing, how you're helping customers, really established that cyber of resiliency, which is absolutely critical these days. We appreciate your >>Time. My pleasure. Thank you so much. >>All right, for our guest and Paul Gilland, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the Queue, which as you know is the leader in live enterprise and emerging check coverage.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back. I'm stupid a man. And this is the cubes coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year at VM World. And of course, we've been watching VM where they're doing a lot more in the cloud the last few years. Big partnership with A W s. And part of that is they bring their ecosystem with them. So Justus, they've had hundreds of companies working with them in the data center. When they do VM ware cloud on AWS in azure oracle, all the cloud service fighters, the data protection companies can come along and continue to partner with them. That's part of what we're gonna be discussing. Happened. Welcome back to the program. It's been a few years. Deepak Mohan. He's the executive vice president of products organization at Veritas. Deepak, thank you so much for joining us. You've got a beautiful veritas facility behind you there. >>Yeah. Nice to meet you. Stew. Yeah. We're really excited about the way in world event and a happy to be on the show. with you? >>Yes. So? So? So let's before we dig in tow data, resiliency and all the other pieces, you know, the Veritas VM relationship goes, goes way back. I mean, I think back to the early oughts, uh, you know, talk about the software companies. You know, Veritas was the, you know, software company in the industry that really got a lot of it started. Yeah, a little company that you and I both know knee M c picked up VM where the rest is history there. But veritas that that partnership has been there since the early early days off from VM ware. So just free refresh our viewers a little bit on on that partnership. >>Yeah, So we, um we're and Veritas have bean partners for, like 20 years. In fact, I'll say, both companies were founded about the same time. We, uh, neighbors in Silicon Valley and Veritas was actually one of the first companies to have introduced the concept off software defined data center software, defined storage. In fact, even before, you know, visa and all came into the picture. But as we and we're progressed with, the virtual is ations off the infrastructure. It was really important for enterprise customers to ensure that both their applications stay resilient and highly available, and all that data remains protected. So at 87% off the global fortune 500 customers are veritas customers. They're all using we and we're in their infrastructures. So any time we, um we're introduces a technology we have to ensure it is available, it's protected eso that partnership goes along a long way where every remember platform has way supported on day one for the Veritas solution. So very tight partnership. We get to see each other frequently and make sure that our solutions are joined at the hip. >>Yeah, Deepak, the term we hear from Veritas, we talked about data resiliency. And as you laid out there, you know, some things have changed. You know, 20 years ago, we weren't talking about cloud native environments, and you know all of these various pieces. Uh, it was really multi vendor heterogeneous environments that veritas lived in. Um, but even in all of these environments of, of course, you know, data resiliency, you know, making sure my data is protected, making sure things they're secure. Um, is still, you know, top of mine and so important for organizations. So, you know, talk to us a little bit about you know what that means here in 2020. With Veritas? Yes. >>So I'll say. 20 years ago, uh, we had one application. One server. Life was very fairly simple. Um, you know? Then came William where? You know, now we have the hybrid private clouds, public clouds, hybrid clouds. So the infrastructure is shifting into these other models, but the need for application resiliency and data resiliency is getting more and more complex because now we have applications that are running on Prem. They're running in virtual machines. They're running in hybrid environments. They're running in private clouds. They're running in infrastructure as a service. SAAS applications. So they're all over the place now, think about the job off the CEO. First, you have to make sure all these applications are up and running 24 by seven. Second, these applications have to be protected, which means, in case off a disaster in case often issue, you have to be ableto recover them a third. How do you be compliant with regulations with things? So so customers now have to have visibility into their infrastructure. So the job of the CEO is becoming super complex to keep in handle on everything. And that's where, uh, the companies like Veritas who are doing application resiliency data resiliency has become really important. I mean, as an example, last year at VM World Show floor, I actually counted the number off backup vendors compared to storage vendors. And there was actually more data protection and resiliency vendors on the floor. Then they were actually storage. Wentz. >>Yeah, Deepak here. You're absolutely right. We saw that, you know, for for years we used to call it storage world because they had all come in partner with VM Ware. But data protection. So So eso important here when one of the big conversations this year, of course, is that rollout of Project Pacific with VCR 77 update one just right, right ahead of the M world. Uh, I'm assuming Veritas is just keeping in lockstep with vm ware, but, you know, talk a bit about you know how that fits into the portfolio. >>Oh, absolutely. So, uh so one off the keys for veritas success over the last 20 years, uh, is that we have kept up with all the technology transformations and all the technology disruptions that happened. And as these hybrid cloud disruption that happening with you mentioned Project Pacific. But you know that it's the 10 zoo platform we are. We are one off the design partners with VM ware for to ensure the data protection layers are done correctly. Eso So we are definitely working with VM ware on the on the Chenzhou uh, resiliency as well as leveraging the Valero platform. So we'll make sure that as a customers are deploying these new solutions the Veritas Solutions out there or or to offer them the resiliency and data protection needed >>Deepak, we've watched that that real maturation of what VM was doing in the cloud, of course, the partnership, you know, first with IBM at VM World a few years ago, right after VM world, it was with a W s. And there was a lot of interest. But we are seeing that customer adoption. I wonder if you talk about how closely you worked with them. Do you have any, you know, maybe anonymous customers that you talk about? You know what they're seeing in the cloud? Why vm ware and Veritas went when they go to this environment. >>Yes. So I'll we have several customers who are moving into the cloud space, uh, leveraging VMC or now with the azure reimburse solutions. So what happens is when these customers we have large financials, for example, who are using now we anywhere and migrating their workloads into the cloud have eso. So they may be deploying virtual machines there. But the need for H A and data resilience in backup actually gets a little bit more complex because the old environments are still there on prime. Some workloads are now moving to the cloud, and they're leveraging The Veritas Solutions want to support the migration. Second, to offer the resiliency, leveraging the Veritas resiliency platform or net backup overeaters input scale. An example is I'll use an example of an air one airline customer reservation systems now moving to KWS within two availability zones. The application availability comes with the Veritas solution. So Veritas is Prue is on their journey to the cloud helping enterprise customers work in these hybrid use cases. >>Deepak, since you've got so many customers and they're going through their cloud journeys, uh, Veritas works across all the environment. You get a good view point as to where we are. One of the things we're really trying to help clarify people. We throw out these terms Hybrid cloud and multi cloud. Most customers I talked to we have a cloud strategy and you use more than one cloud. Yes. Is portability the big concern? Well, no, I'm not moving things all over the time. I don't wake up and say, you know, I'm checking the stock market and therefore I'm gonna, you know, move toe one of the other, but I need tohave my multiple environment. It's difficult on them with different skill sets. Uh, and you know, we're seeing, you know, companies like Veritas and VM where, you know, living where the customer is. So give us a little insight as toe what you're seeing from the customers, this whole hybrid, multi cloud environment. What? What does it mean to to your customers? >>Eso what? What? And says, You know, we have a variety of customers and, you know, invariably, when we talked to them, each one of them has, ah, little bit different journey to the cloud. I you know, some customers I'd say maybe more mid market. Want to move completely towards ah platform as a service approach and leverage either azure or a W s. Uh, but I'll say most of the enterprise customers are looking at, uh, taking workloads. It could be one of the applications. Some are further ahead in the journey, and they're taking now a mission Critical application. Okay, You know, it could be and s a p workload. It could be a thumb mission critical, you know, building system reservation systems and then using VM ware as the mechanism to go into the cloud with it and and and And when they do that, they're looking for the same level and same level of tools for both availability and data protection. Eso I'll say that we have lots of different examples between utilities, healthcare companies, financials, government. Yeah, who are ill say the common theme is now they're moving towards. I'll say the harder workloads are now moving to the cloud. And now they're absolutely leveraging tools from where eaters. They want to make sure that our solutions actually support those complex and highly scalable use cases. And we're absolutely doing that with the solutions. >>Deepak, you talk about some of the challenges that customers have. You know, some things have changed in 2021 thing that has not changed eyes that security is top of mind. We often see the, you know, data protection and security. Some of those pieces go hand in hand. I remember years ago talking at at the Veritas conference, it was G, D, p. R. And Ransom. Where were the big things that we talked about with every single customer as to how they were defending and preparing for that? So give us, give us the state of your environment. We know that even when everybody's working from home, unfortunately, the bad actors they're actually working over telling >>No. Yes. So I'll see the problem off. Ran somewhere has actually gotten a whole lot worse over the last couple of years. Uh, so, Aziz, we think about ransom where, uh, we have the security layer, which means, you know, first is you have to make sure your infrastructure is protected. You know, the second layer is detection. Which means how do you know if there's ransomware sitting in your environment? Because it could have come in and it may actually click in at a much later time, and the third is recovery. And to be able to recover, you need really good data protection and back up policies within the companies were able to recover it. So, of course, uh, most companies invest a lot in the security software, but we know that ransomware still get sent. It can get into a phishing attack. It can get into email some one off the employees at home clicks on something. You know, Ransomware is in eso the backup, and the data protection is the last line of defense from to be able to recover. So now you have it. You're stuck. What do you do? You want to find the last best copy, uh, be able to recover very, very quickly, and and the problem is is really serious. I was actually talking to my one off our tech support leaders, and we get at least one color day with one of our customers that have been hit with ransom er and we helped them through the recovery process s Oh, that's a heavy investment area for Veritas. Without that backup software backup exact software, but also with the hardened very terse appliances. We provide a very solid way for our customers to be able to protect and recover from Ransomware. The only thing I suggest is you know, once you have been hit at and if you don't have a good backup you know, I talked about that huge. Just state that entire state has to be protected also from ransomware, which means standardization is key. So when something happens, are you going to look at nine products to recover from or you want all your catalogs, all your data, all your insights in one place, so you can then go quickly, come back online and not have to pay the ransom? >>All right. Well, Deepak, let's let's bring it home. We're here at VM World. We we talked at the beginning about the long partnership. You were there, you know, Day zero with the VCR seven activity. What do you want people to take away from VM World 2020. When it comes to Veritas, >>I'm a key message. Tow our mutual customers as that veritas is here to support your journey to the hybrid cloud to the cloud. We are investing heavily in the solutions we Our goal is to continue providing today zero support for all we end where solutions and releases. And we're working very closely with VM ware on the 10 zoo platform rollout. We have a design partner with me and were there as well as leveraging the right AP eyes, whether to be a d. P. V i o P sent were certified on every latest versions off the VM Ware portfolio. We have several 100 engineers that work the just to make sure that we support these platforms, you know, in additional say's as the women were connects toe aws and to azure. Those solutions are also extremely well certified. So where it'll works very closely with AWS we were the first to be certified on the the AWS solutions. >>Uh, you're you're you're talking about like outposts, I believe. >>Oh, yes. Outpost. Yeah, so we just got the outpost ready. Certification, you know, works extremely well with the reimburse solutions. A swell Aziz A V s, uh, azure reimburse solutions so heavy areas off investment for us. So the same way that our customers have depended on us over the last 20 years. We are writing the technology disruptions to help our customers into the next wave with the same set off solutions working both on prime hybrid and clouds. >>Yeah, Deepak, I'm having flashbacks. You and I remember the things when it was the V x f s and the Vieques VM. And now we've got the, uh you know, uh, you know all the very the VM Ware versions on A V s and Google Cloud VM Ware engine. It gets a little confusing out there. But, hey, I really appreciate you giving us some clarity as to how you're helping customers with their their data resiliency supporting and ransomware and the deepen long partnership that Veritas and VM Ware have. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Thank you. Stew. >>Alright, Stay tuned. Lots more coverage from VM World 2020. I'm stew minimum and thank you for watching the Cube

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stuart Miniman and welcome to this episode of CUBE conversations. I'm here from our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to the program, Doug Matthews. He's the vice president of product management with Veritas coming to us from Atlanta. Doug, thanks so much for joining us. Nice to see you. >> Hey, great to see you Stuart and thanks for having me today. >> Yeah, so Doug obviously, 2020, there's a lot of change going on, globally, a lot of things happening financially, but one of the ongoing changes that we've been watching and has had huge ripple effects, is of course the impact on cloud. So why don't you bring us in a little bit. Tell us, what you work on, and how cloud has been impacting, what's happening with the data protection or resiliency in your world? >> Sure, so, Veritas Technologies is a long brand of focus on data protection. And we are highly focused on protecting data regardless of where it lives, whether it lives on a customer's premise or whether it lives in a cloud, public cloud architecture, or even in a cloud application. So, for us, this has been a transformational change as more and more people begin to adopt cloud services as the work from home trend starts and we're seeing them much higher emergence of ransomware. >> Yeah, so cloud of course, it is a unevenly distributed if you look at, if look at a countries, if you look at industries, >> Right. >> I'm wondering what you're hearing from customers, what's kind of the 2020 snapshot of where we are with the overall cloud wave. >> Sure, yeah. What we're seeing is a much more rapid adoption of cloud services as businesses and organizations begin to wrestle with the fact that they can't bring people into the office. So the work from home trend, the access to resources needs to be delivered through the cloud applications, even data centers. We're now beginning to see you some supply chain hiccups that are causing the supply chain fulfillment of server orders beginning to slow down. So customers are beginning to think more broadly about cloud gives you agility, operational ability to react to change. So people are accelerating their adoption of cloud resources because they're almost being forced to. >> Yeah, is there anything specific you're seeing are you getting any data maybe with coronavirus as to what service is in the cloud and what impact that's having on your customers? >> Yeah, so dramatic change, right. So for example, Azure Cloud Services are up something like 775%, which is just astounding number, VDI, Virtual Desktops up over 300%, and just massive of these cloud resources is just a continuing component trim. >> Yeah, and how about from a data protection standpoint and security. Obviously, we've seen that the malicious attacks have increased, unfortunately, and when you have more people outside of the enterprise walls itself, there's more things we need to make sure that our data is secure. >> Yeah, absolutely. And we have without a doubt seen a rise in ransomware attacks and malware attacks. What's interesting to note is increasingly the consumer is placing the blame for these attacks, less on the perpetrators and more on the organization and business leaders. For example, over 40% of consumers actually hold the business leader responsible where ransomware attack that their business suffers And (indistinct) percent would actually say that they would stop buying from an organization that suffers from a malware or has been a victim of an attack. So the mindset here is no longer place blame on the perpetrators, but on the business leader and owner that didn't protect their data in such a way that kept the user from being exposed. >> Yeah, Doug, why don't you bring us inside and explain how Veritas is helping in these environments to protect our data? >> Yeah, so I think the first thing is as a business leader begins to think about their cloud contract, they need to understand their SLAs and how that maps to what that cloud provider is going to provide for them. We actually found, recently, we produced a report called the "Truth in Cloud Report" and in that report, we talked to cloud architects and business leaders over 1600 of them that respond, and one of the things that we found pretty interesting is that 85% of the respondents said that the cloud service provider is responsible for protecting their data, but that's completely disconnected from the actual fact that over 53% or so of those that responded actually had an SLA that was higher than their cloud service provider would provide. So they believe it's supposed to be done by the cloud provider, but it isn't being done by the cloud provider to meet their needs. So people really need to think about and analyze who's protecting their data and how they're protected when they move into that cloud architecture. >> Yeah, I have to say I'm a little surprised to hear those results, the drum beat that I've heard from the security industry for the last couple of years has been about the shared responsibility model, there have been some rather public and highly visible failures where say somebody made a false assumption that was something would be turned on and the cloud service providers have come back and said, "Hey, you all, if there's these things you need to do and just because there's a lock on the door, if you don't lock it, we're not responsible for it". It is kind of the analogy I use. Shouldn't we, by 2020 now, where cloud is not new. I would have thought that we would have gotten through some of these rather basic understanding of who's responsible for what and ultimately who needs to answer for these things. >> Yeah, I think we're still in that adoption life cycle and I think there was the... We mapped this as a hype cycle of our own... We're people right in the adoption of cloud and we believe that classically cloud architects, probably 20 to 25% of organizations, have actually fully adopted cloud at this point and are aggressively adopting cloud, but there is such a rush now to get in from these business leaders and architects, who haven't really you've taken the time to frame and understand things that they're now being pulled along in this journey and rediscovering this thing. So we have to keep that drum beat up as some of the cloud laggers or more mainstream technology adopters are beginning to adopt cloud 'cause they haven't stayed aware. I completely agree with you. We've been talking about the shared responsibility model for a long time, but these survey results showed that it's still a problem. >> Doug, you make a great point. You talk about companies have had to compress their cycles and while normally they would have been able to really plan things, walk through what they were going to do, they're often rushing into things a little bit more. So what advice would you give other companies that are now been dipping their toe, but jumping into cloud or they need to accelerate what they're doing, what advice would you make sure that people don't get in a little over their skis or do something that they're going to regret? >> Sure, so the first thing I would say is, have a recovery plan and make sure you rehearse it. Again, back to the blame here is falling on business leaders, so don't get caught by it, make sure that you understand your recovery plan, make sure that you rehearse it and that it works. The second thing is, I would absolutely read that fine print of your contract and make sure that your required SLAs match up with what your cloud services provider provides, or you need to adapt technology that helps you to adjust to make sure that you achieve that SLA. And then the final thing as you're doing all this, so many people look at cloud for cost optimization as an outcome, make sure you don't overpay because the there are various levels of cloud storage, cloud storage is extremely expensive, cloud resources are expensive. Typically people think about the actual host itself or the instance itself, make sure that you think about the storage as well. So use things like deduplication or lower tiers of storage to optimize your cost efficiency. >> All right, so Doug as we mentioned earlier in the discussion Veritas has been around for awhile really well understood how you help customers, help connect us as to what you're doing for the cloud specifically. >> Sure, so specifically for cloud, let's focus on an upcoming release. I think most people that are probably watching this are familiar with our product called NetBackup, it's the enterprise leader in data protection. NetBackup is designed to solve the data protection challenges across all infrastructure whether it's your typical on premise infrastructure or new cloud architectures. So in these new cloud architectures, we've done things to make sure that you efficiently utilize cloud storage. So we do things like deduplication, we also control network bandwidth and make sure that you minimize rather your impact on network bandwidth. So you've minimize your overall cost requirements associated with cloud or data protection. The other thing that we're doing in this next release, which I think is really exciting is, we're going to take our cloud point solution and our resiliency platform solution, these solutions are designed to help customers, efficiently recover in cloud as well as do it in a very quick and automated fashion. And we're going to bake those into our NetBackup product. So the NetBackup consumer will automatically have access to these two new technologies that we've been developing for the last several years. So that's really exciting for us to be including those with our NetBackup product. >> All right, and Doug, when we talk about cloud, is this supported across any cloud or there are specific integrations that we should understand or just where does this fit in the entire, on a multicloud ecosystem? >> Yeah, so the one other thing, again, about NetBackup being a platform, it support over 1400 different data sources, over 800 different data targets, and that includes over 60 cloud providers, so it supports us this broad ecosystem of cloud architecture but where that makes sense, we always go deep. So we go deep with your traditional cloud providers, like AWS or Azure and provide that deeper level capability for those those cloud providers. >> All right, great. What else should we know about what's new from Veratis's cloud offering? >> Yeah, I think when we build our cloud solutions, we focus on a four stage lifecycle of a customer. For example, we realized that customer wants to migrate the cloud, they want to protect their resources in cloud, they want to be able to recover when the time comes and then optimize their cloud footprint. So we tend to focus in those four pillars to achieve success for our customers. >> Yeah, a question on that, I think about moving to the cloud, there's a lot of discussion about how do I modernize my environment and often it's I move to the cloud, but then how do I really become cloud native, if you will. So I'm making updates and I'm making changes. If I think about backup traditionally, it was, let me get something, let me put it in place and I'm going to run it that way for years. So how does Veritas make sure that as I'm modernizing as I'm making changes that my data is still going to be protected no matter where I am along that journey. >> Sure, so I think as customers are migrating to and adopting cloud, their first stage on the train or their first station that they come to on the train is that lift and shift approach. We're going to take everything from on premise and we're going to move it to the cloud. So we have technologies that will help our customer do that with automated failback, so they can set up the replication solution, push a button now they're up and running in cloud, hey, it didn't work, push the button and they're back down in their on premise environment, adjust and do it when it makes sense and they're ready to make it make it work. So we have a fairly robust set of technologies that can help in that lift and shift process, lift and shift process. The other thing that we provide is for those infrastructure as code guys, the guys that are further out that are thinking, how do I natively build cloud based solutions? We have a very full suite of APIs so that the customer can implement their infrastructure as code requirements right there through that Swagger interface that you would expect and deploy infrastructure as code environments in cloud, utilizing our enterprise class API. So we're purpose built to be able to help customers get the cloud, and then also support those cloud applications that are built there natively. >> Yeah, Doug, I'm wondering, do you have either a customer example, maybe anonymized you can share, or just any general cloud learnings about where your customers are and how Veritas is helping them? >> Sure, so one of the first things that we see customers try to accomplish is the move of their backup storage infrastructure into a longterm storage in cloud. So they might use it as a replacement for tape, they might use it as a replacement for disk, and they want to live in the cloud environment. So we have a capability, we call it CloudCatalyst that moves data very efficiently from on prem into the cloud, keeps it deduplicated, optimizes it for wide area network transmit, and really efficiently moves that data in the cloud, and then really what's important is once it gets in the cloud, it doesn't touch that data. So we have a large customer who's got over a couple of petabytes of data in Europe that wanted to make that migration to cloud, they were using another provider at the time, so we came in and we were actually able to save them over 98% of their overall operational cost associated with moving and migrating that data just based on this one capability. So that's a key element, right. As people are moving that data to cloud, make sure that it stays efficient, optimized, deduplicated in stored efficient. >> All right, Doug, I'll give you the final word. >> Yeah, I think my warning for customers is to make sure that they are well-protected with their data state in cloud. Understand what your cloud service provider provides, make sure that your SLOs, your service level objectives are going to be met by the technologies that you deploy in order to solve your cloud problems. And then think about things holistically, think about it first from the migration, then how you protect it, then once you get there, what do you do to recover, make you test that. And then once you've got everything kind of thought through and ready to implement, make sure that you've optimized it to be efficient in it's cost utilization and in it's operations. >> All right, well, Doug Matthews, thank you so much for the updates, we really appreciate you sharing us some important tips for customers as they go along their cloud journey. >> Thank you so much, Stuart. >> All right, I'm Stuart Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (gentle music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Reporter: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston. Connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're coming to you today from our Palo Alto studios, talking about a really important topic. And that's data. And as we hear over and over and over, right data is the oil. Data is the new currency. Data is driving business decisions. Data drives AI. Data drives machine learning. Data is increasingly important. And we're still kind of waiting for it, to show up on balance sheets. Which is kind of implied in a lot of the big iterations, that we see in companies that are built on data. But one of the important things about data, is taking care of it. And we're excited to have our next guest here to talk about, some of the things you need to think about, and best practices in securing your data. Backing up your data, protecting your data. We're joined today by Tim Burlowski. He is the senior director, Product Management from Veritas. Joining us from remote. I believe you're in Minnesota. Tim, great to see you. >> Yep, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so let's just jump into it. So all we hear about is data these days. It's such an important topic, that is growing exponentially. And it's structured and it's unstructured. And it's so core to the business. And are you making database decisions? And are you getting enough data to drive your AI? And your machine learning algorithms? I mean, data is only exploding. You've been in this business for a long, a long, long time. I wonder if you can share your perspective, when you hear these things. more data is going to be created in the next 15 minutes. And wasn't the entire history of men before us? I'm making that up, but it's been quite an explosion. >> I know yeah, I know where you're coming from. And frankly, I don't even put that, in my presentation anymore. Because it's a lot like saying gravity exists, And things that you drop out, of a window will fall to the ground. Everyone's heard it. Everyone's aware of it. The numbers are just so staggering. You don't even know what to do with it. Like how many iPhones could you stack to the moon and back and then to Saturn? Doesn't make sense. But the truth is, we are seeing an explosion. Everyone knows it. We have to manage it better. Now for us, a lot of what we do, is in this data protection space. Where we want to make sure, that data is protected and always available. All of the data that's been created, and the growth in mission-critical applications. It's no longer seven to 20 mission-critical applications. It's hundreds and hundreds of mission-critical applications. Means you have to be ready, with a recent recovery if necessary. And you need to provide that data back to the consumer, as quickly as you possibly can. Because you've got people waiting on it. We've all got our apps on our phone, where we're looking at our bank account 24 seven. We don't wait until a teller appears at nine a.m anymore. It's not the world we live in. >> Right, I'm just curious if you've got some tailwinds, in terms of you're kind of, you've been in this market for a very long time. In terms of people finally realizing that their data, is really more of an asset and a liability. In the investments, to gather it, protect it, analyze it, have it ready for refresh it, If there's some problem. It's a positive investment towards, kind of revenue and strategic importance to the company, as opposed to kind of a back-office IT function, that we're kind of taking care of business because we have to. >> Boy that one really varies a lot by company. I see companies taking shortcuts and outsourcing, and then suddenly you'll see them in the news. And they discover that they had a major outage for a couple of days. And suddenly practices change very, very quickly. The relative comprehensive, sturdy and reliable infrastructure that people run today, sometimes lulls people into false security. And then you see a major airlines with a multi-day outage. And you go hmm, I think we missed a few steps in the process. So it sometimes takes those rude awakenings. But the companies who are really taking it seriously, and starting to practice pruning their data, examining their data for PII. So they meet various compliance regimes, and other in various states and countries. And starting to think about their backup stream, really being, how do we get a fast recovery? Instead of how do I make a copy, which I will never use again? Are really starting to drive a more efficient IT operation, when it comes to data protection. >> No, it's an interesting take, in reference to having some issue. Because we do a lot of stuff around security. Which is related to but not equal to this conversation. And one of the topics in security is that, most people have already been breached. It's just a function of how fast can you find out, and how fast can you minimize the damage? And how fast can you move on? Why are they breaching? They're breaching to get the data. So I would imagine, with this constant reading in the newspaper, of who was breached here there and everywhere, pretty much every day. That's got to be a huge driver, in terms of people kind of upping their game, and the sophistication, of the way they really think about data protection. >> It is and I'll tell you, I've had the misfortune, I would say. Of talking to customers who are in the middle of recovering, from a major ransomware malware attack. And it's a very difficult proposition. And what customers often discover is, they haven't practiced enough, they don't have enough of a DR plan present. We are certainly rising the occasion. Our products are sort of the last thing, that often stands between the customer, losing their data completely. And so we're looking at a number of technology innovations, that will enable them to store their data on immutable devices. And for the backup infrastructure, to be completely aware of that. Which we'll be announcing later this summer. Which we're very excited about. Of course, from our perspective of our appliance portfolio, we've always provided a couple of extra layers of security against intrusion detection, and intrusion prevention right out of the box. Because we know the backup infrastructure becomes this collection of the very most important data in your infrastructure. Because that's the thing you back up. And you want to restore. If there's ever any sort of manmade disaster or otherwise. >> Right. So I want to shift gears a little bit, and talk about kind of the evolution of the infrastructure kind of scene. If you will. With the rise of public clouds, with Amazon and Google and Microsoft, is sure. And then obviously, you tried into a data center. Lot of talk about HP discover, this week kind of going from edge to cloud and data center in the middle. So the environment in which these applications live, and these applications run, and where the data is, relative to those applications. Is evolved dramatically over the last, you probably have a much better time perspective than I do. Five years, 10 years. But it continues to accelerate, in this kind of Application-Centric World versus, kind of an Infrastructure Centric World. Just curious to get your take on, The kind of the challenges that presents to your company, and what you guys are trying to do to accomplish. And how do you see that continuing to evolve and get, not simpler but more complex over time? >> That is a very astute acknowledgement of what's going on in the industry. And I often call it the industry's getting weirder. I would have thought at some point, we'd sort of have Linux and Windows, and a couple of database vendors. And the truth is that database vendors exploded. And it's not just Linux anymore. It's containers. And it might be a container based on CentOS. And it might be container running in the cloud. Or it might be a simple function, like a lambda function running on nothing in AWS. And so this whole world has gotten a lot stranger. From my perspective, I think the biggest change for Veritas, has been a renewed focus on API's that we make public to customers, in ways that we can glue and stitch these systems together. Now, of course, it doesn't replace the deep integration, we do with companies like VMware, with Docker, as well as the the container ecosystem around. OpenShift and some of those technologies. But from our perspective, we've had to be a little bit more prolific, in what we support. And the truth is, it's all files, it's all objects, it's all things we've done before. But they just keep bubbling up in new and different ways. >> Right, but what's interesting though, is you touch on all kinds of stuff there with Kubernetes and clouds and in containers. Is a lot of it's kind of ethereal, right? The whole idea of of a cloud-based infrastructure, is that you can bring it up and bring it down as you need it. You can adjust it as you go. And literally turn it off when you don't need it. And bring it back up. And then you add to that serverless. And this kind of increasing atomization, of all the different parts of compute. Kind of an interesting thing for you guys, to try to back up as these things are created and destructed. We hear these crazy stories of, automating Kubernetes to spin up tons of these things at a time and then bring them back back down. And then I'm curious too. Within that is also the open source. kind of challenge in continuing to have evolution in open source technologies, API's, et cetera. So it is getting weirder and weirder, on a number of fronts as you guys continue to evolve with the market. >> Absolutely, and all I'll tell you, you have to think about all technologies as being on a bridge. As I remind people, we have washing machines. They work really well but washboards still exist, even though it's a technology from 18th century, or beforehand. Now, they may be used as still do exist. Now, my point in this is, people need a bridge. Most enterprises run on an amazing amount of technology, they've developed as a stack over the last 10 to 15 years. And they can't immediately rewrite that, and put it all in a cloud container. So we're actually seeing a lot of use of containers, and Kubernetes with fairly heavy application stacks. When you think about something as heavy as, all have Oracle inside of a container. You can understand that, that's a big lift for container. And it's not ephemeral at all. Then it reaches out to storage, that has that persistence value. And that's where we come in. 'Cause we want to make sure that persistent storage, is always protected. And easily available to the customer for any recovery needs. >> Is great, so I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, to talk about regulations and compliance. 'Cause, regulatory requirements drive a lot of behavior and activity, and really oftentimes, are ahead of maybe the business prerogative to do things like provide backups, provide quick and dirty, quick and easy access. Because you needed it for, a public Freedom of Information Act request. Or you need it for some type of court type of activity. So I wonder if you can kind of talk about, how the regulatory environment, continues to evolve over time. And how does that impact, what you guys are doing in the marketplace? >> Great question. The biggest place is It's affected us, is customers are starting to think about privacy. And where do I have data which relates to, personally identifying information. And that's really driven a lot, by the European regulations around GDPR. Then we're seeing the California Privacy Act come in. And a number of other states are considering legislation in this area. In some ways, it's actually been a good news story for data protection and data management. Because people are starting to say, I should identify where the data is, I should figure out where the PII is. And I should make sure, I'm actually using my backups for the right purposes. Which is something we've always believed in. We've always thought, Hey, Mr. Customer, I see you're backing up an Oracle database for 10 years. What are you going to do with it in 10 years? Are you going to install Oracle seven and reboot it? It doesn't really add up to me. So, how can you get to a true archive, for that data you really need archive? And then for your backup set, how can you keep it lean and mean. And just keep it for the length of time you actually need it? Which for many customers, could be as little as 14, 15 days, maybe six months, maybe a year. But it's often not those extreme retentions people were thinking of, when they were building their tape based infrastructure 10 years ago. >> Right, that's funny. 'Cause as you mentioned, also I'm thinking of, is big data. Right in this constant kind of conversation. In the Big Data world is they keep everything forever, with the hopes that at some point in time, there may be a different algorithm or a different kind of process, you might run on that, but you didn't think about. Right kind of scheme on read versus scheme on right. But to your point, is that necessarily something that has to be backed up, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of policy driven activity. Than to drive the software to define what to back up, what you don't back up, how you back it up, how long you back it up? And a lot of kind of business decisions as opposed to technology decisions. >> Absolutely, that's been on the back of, the price of storing a bit of data, has declined over the last 10 years. An average 15 percent year over year. For a very long time. So people have ignored the problem. But the truth is, when you're really working at scale, there's a tremendous amount of waste. And we've identified for customers, using our data analytics technology. Millions of dollars of cost savings, where they were, both had storing files on, expensive primary tier one storage. And they were backing up those same, that same bit of information every single week. Even though it hadn't changed, or hadn't been read in seven plus years, and they couldn't find an owner for the information in the company. They literally didn't know why they had it. And I think people are starting to consider that. Especially in budget constraint times. >> Right, it's so funny, right? Sometimes it's such a simple answer, a friend one time had a startup, and he was doing contract management. This is 20 years ago. And I was like, how do you manage the complexity of contracts inside software. Again 20 years ago. And he said, Jeff, that's not it at all. We just need to know like, where is the contract? who signed it and when does it expire? And they built the business, on answering simple questions like that. It's sometimes the simple stuff that's the hard stuff. I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, on what bear toss dude in the market in terms of still having appliances? I'm sure a lot of people like weight appliances. Why are we still using appliances? This is a software defined world. And everything just runs on x86 architecture. You guys still have appliances, tell us a little bit about the why. And some of the benefits of having, kind of a dedicated hardware, software piece of equipment, versus just a pure software solution that sits on anybody's box. >> That's a great question. Thanks for asking. When I think about that world, you have to understand Veritas at its core is absolutely a software company. We build software and we preserve the choice and how the customer implements. When I say we preserve choice. We obviously still support old school Unix. We certainly have enormous investment in the x86 world, both on Windows and various Linux flavors. And of course, you can run those same That same software in the cloud. And of course, you can run it inside of a virtualized infrastructure. So we always like to preserve choice. Now why did we create the appliance business, it's frankly because customers asked us to. The thing that made storing backups on disk affordable, was this technology known as deduplication. Which at its heart is just a fancy kind of compression, That's very, very good at copies of data, where there's a lot of blocks that are have been seen before. And so we don't store them if we've seen them before. We simply store the ones that are new and fresh. So from our perspective, customers said, "we want this technology." And the market really moved away, from general purpose solutions on servers to do that. Because it was very hard to build something, that could have a very high throughput, very high memory, and at the same time, could give excellent support for random access reads, when the customer actually needed to read that data. And so we created a purpose built appliances as a result. And what we discovered in the the process was, there were a lot of pieces that were actually fairly hard in the enterprise. So when a customer would describe, the purchasing process of their typical solution before appliances, they would talk about, filing tickets with the server team. Filing tickets with the storage team. Filing tickets with security team. And sometimes taking six or nine months, to get a piece of equipment ready to install the backup software on the floor. Whereas with ours, they placed an order, it showed up on the dock, as soon as it when it was in the rack, they were ready to go and working independently. Now while we have a great and thriving appliance business, we're very, very proud of, we always preserve choice at Veritas. And even though that's the business I represent, I would make sure our customers always understand, that we're interested in the best platform for the customer. So that's our basic perspective. If you want to go deeper, let me know where you have questions. (chuckles) >> Well, I'm curious on the process, when there's a fail, when there's attack, when there's ransomware, whatever. When you need to go back to your backup. What are some of the things that your approach enables, or what are kind of the typical stumbling blocks that are the hardest things to overcome. That people miss when they're planning for that. Or thinking about it. That kind of rear their ugly heads, when the time comes that, oh, I guess we need to go back to a backup version. >> Yeah, and I'll break that input into this disaster recovery or restore process. And then also the process of backup. So when you think about that disaster recovery, and I'll use ransomware as that piece of it. Because that's the real kind of disaster, when you're looking at equipment in the infrastructure, which has been wiped clean. That's a worst case scenario for most IT managers. When you think about that situation, we've built into our appliances first of all, a hardened Linux OS. Meaning we've shrank down that OS as much as we possibly could. Second, we've added role-based access protection. To make sure that you simply can't log in and perform activities which you're not privileged to perform. And then we have intrusion protection software, intrusion detection software. To ensure that even for those zero day attacks, that we may not even be aware of when we release our software, that the system is hardened. Of course, you have firewalls and STIG rules, STIG or rules are DoD standard, for hardening Linux based devices. So we've got a hardened device. And I was talking to a customer, in a different part of the world this week. Where they described having a data center, where everything had been wiped. And there's one thing left there, their NetBackup appliances. And they were then able to then take that, and use that for the restore. Because that was a real vault for their data. Now, the flipside is, that's a rare day. So that is truly a black swan event. When you think about day to day, and we're running a data protection operation, really think about speed of backup. And for us being able to take something that's neatly tuned for the hardware, the operating system, the tuning, the net backup software is all configured out of the box and ready to go. And the data protection folks, can be independently able to drive that is a great value. Because essentially, you have Lego style building blocks. Where you can order device, it always performs the same. And three years from now, you don't have to redesign it. And take your expensive IT staff and ask them to figure out what's the best solution. We've just got another one off the shelf for you, another series in the model. >> Right >> Now, as you said earlier, the world's getting weirder. It definitely is. So we'll be branching off into what kind of appliances we offer. And you'll see some announcements later, in the year where we'll be offering some reference architecture approaches, which will be a little different than what we offer today. Just to meet the customer demand that's out there. >> Yeah, that's great. I mean, 'cause as you said, it's all about customer choice. And meeting the customer where they want to meet. But before I let you go, this is pretty interesting conversation. I want to get your perspective, as someone who's been in the business, for a really long time. And as you look at opportunities around, machine learning and artificial intelligence, and you look at kind of the I'm going to steal your line about things getting weirder. And use over and over. But as they continue to get weirder and weirder, where do you see kind of the evolution is, you kind of sit back, not necessarily in the next six months or so. But where do you see growth opportunities and places you want to go? That better still out in front of you, even though you've been doing this for many, many years? >> Well, that's a great question. So this is yet another wave. And that's often how I look at it. Meaning, there's a wave of Unix. There's a wave of windows. There's wave of virtualization. And each of these technologies, brought some real shifts to our environment. I think, from my perspective, the next big wave is dealing with ransomware. And some of these compliance requirements we talked about earlier. And then I can't get away from this big data, AI piece and my son's studying computer science in college. And that's a weekly conversation for us. What's new in that front? Because I think we're going to see, a lot more technology developed there. We are just truly on the beginning of that curve. And frankly, when I think about the companies I work with, they have a tremendous amount of data. But that's really only going to increase, as they realize they can actually develop value from it. And as you mentioned, first thing once it shows up on the balance sheet, suddenly everyone's going to get very excited about that. >> Yeah, it's so funny, right? 'Cause it basically does show up on the balance sheet of Facebook, and it shows up on the balance sheet of Google. But it's just not a line item. And I keep waiting for the tipping point, to happen where that becomes, a line item on the balance sheet. Because increasingly, that is arguably, the most important asset. 0r certainly the information and learning that goes around that data. >> You're right. And frankly, it's an insurable asset at this point. You can go to a company in a number of commercial settings and get ransomware insurance, for instance. So people are definitely recognizing the value of it if they're willing to insure it. >> Right, right. All right, Tim. Well, thank you very much for stopping by. And giving us an update really interesting times in, kind of taking care of business and really the core of the business, which is the data inside the business. So, important work. And thanks for taking a few minutes. >> All right, thanks. I'll be glad to be back anytime you want me. >> Alright, He's Tim. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. Coming to you today from our Palo Alto studios. It's COVID is still going on. So, there's still no shows, but the good news is we've got the technology we can reach out to the community, and bring them in from far, far away. So today joining us from Virginia across the country is Dave Scott. He is the director of Product Management for Veritas, Dave, great to see you. >> Thanks Jeff, great to be here. >> Absolutely. So let's jump into it. You guys have been about backup and recovery for years and years and years, but oh my goodness, how the landscape continues to evolve between, you know, public cloud and you know, all the things happening with Amazon and Google, and Microsoft. And then now, of course big push for Hybrid. And, you know, we're the workloads, and kind of application centric infrastructure. You guys still got a backup and secure all this things. I wonder if you can give us a little bit of your perspective on, you know, kind of the increasing complexity of the computing environment, has all these different kind of pieces of the puzzle, are kind of gaining traction at the same time. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm on the compliance side of the company. So I'm more on looking after requirements around collection of content preparation for litigation, making sure you're adhering to compliance regulations in different parts of the world. And, I mean that's a constantly evolving space. One of the, so basically the products I look after are Enterprise Vaults, Enterprise Vault.cloud, and eDiscovery platform. And, as you say, I mean, one of the biggest challenges is that customers are starting to move, you know, customers are looking for flexibility in how they deploy our solutions. We've had a product in market with enterprise vault for about 20 years. And so, we have a lot of customers that have a lot of data on premise, and now they're starting, you know, they've got cloud mandates, they want to move that content to the cloud. So we have gotten very aggressive at building out our SaaS, archiving solution, Enterprise Vault.cloud. But we also provide other options. Like if you want to move enterprise vault from your data center on premise, to your tenant in Azure, Amazon, we fully support that. In fact, we're taking advantage of cloud services to make that a much more viable option for our customers. >> So let's get into the regulation and the compliance, 'cause that's a big piece of the motivation beyond just, you know, making sure that the business can recover, that the regulation and compliance thing is huge. You know, the GDPR, which has been around now for a couple of years, California protection act. And I think what I find interesting from your perspective is you have this kind of crazy sea of regulations that are different by country, by industry, by data type, and they're evolving all the time. So, that's got to be a relatively complex little grid you got to keep track of. >> Yeah, it makes the job interesting. But it also is a huge competitive advantage for us. We have a team that researches data privacy regulations around the world, and it's been a competitive advantage in that we can be incredibly nimble in creating a new policy. We had some opportunities come up in Turkey, there's a regulation there that mirrors GDPR called KVKK or KVKK I think they call it locally. And it's, a joke that it's kind of like GDPR, but with jail time for noncompliance. So there's a lot more motivation on the part of an IT department, to make sure they're meeting that requirement. But it has to do with dealing with, you know, data privacy again, and ensuring the safety of the continent. That's proliferating throughout the world. You mentioned California Consumer Privacy Act, many other States are starting to follow what the California Consumer Privacy Act. And I'm sure, it won't be long before we have a data privacy act in the US, that's nationwide instead of at the state level. In other industries that we serve, like the financial services industry. There's, you know, there's always been a lot of regulation around SEC and FINRA in the US, that's spreading to other countries now, you know, MiFID II in the European union has been huge. And that dictates you need to capture all voice conversations, all text conversations, instant messages, everything that goes on between a broker and the end customer, has to be captured, has to be supervised, and has to be maintained on warm storage. So that's a great segment for us as well. That's an area we play very well in. >> So it's interesting. 'Cause in preparing for this, I saw some of the recent announcements around the concept of data supervision. So I think a lot of people are familiar with backup and recovery, and continuity, but specifically data supervision. What does that really mean? How is that different than kind of traditional backup and recovery, and what are some of the really key features or attributes to make that a successful platform? >> Yeah, no, it is really outside of the realm of backup and recovery. Archiving is very different from backup and recovery. And then archiving is about preserving the communication, and being able to monitor that communication, for the purposes of meeting compliance regulations. So, in the case of our solution, Veritas advanced supervision, It sounds a bit big brotherish, if I'm being honest, but it is a requirement for the financial service community that you sample a subset of those communications looking for violations. So you're looking for insider trading, you're looking for money laundering. In some companies, at the HR departments, or even just trying to ensure that their employees are being compliant. And so you may sample a subset of content. But it's absolutely required within the financial services community. And we're starting to see a lot of other industries, you know, leveraging this technology just to ensure compliance with different regulations, or compliance with their own internal policies. Ensuring a safe work place, ensuring that there's not any sexual harassment, or that type of thing going on through office communications. So it is a way of just monitoring your employees communications. >> So it's while I remember when, when people used to talk about messaging, and kind of the generic sense, like I could never understand why, you know, it's an email, it's a text. I mean, little did I know that every single application is now installed on every single device that I have, has a messaging app, you know, has a direct messaging feature. So, I mean the complexity and, and I guess the, the variability in the communication methods, across all these applications and, you know, probably more than half of them, that most of us work on are SaaS as well, really adds a ton of complexity to the challenge that you were just talking about. >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, I'm old. You know, when I started, all of my communications were on a Microsoft mail server, all my files were in the file, you know, the server room down the hall. Now I've got about 20 different ways to communicate on my phone. And, the fragmentation of communication does make that job a lot more, more challenging. You know, now you need to take a voice conversation, convert it to text. With COVID and with, you know, the dawn of telemedicine, or at least the rapid growth, and telemessaging, telemedicine sorry. There is a whole new potential market for this kind of supervision tool. Now you can capture every doctor patient interaction that takes place over Zoom or over a Team's video, transcribe that content, and there's a wealth of value in that conversation. Not only can you tell if the doctor is responding to the patient, if the interaction is positive or negative, is the doctor helping to calm the patient down? Do they have good quality of interaction? That sort of thing. And so there's incredible value in capturing those communications, so you can learn from the... you know learn best practices, I guess. And then, feed that into a broader data lake, and correlate the interaction with patient outcomes, who are your great doctors? who are your, you know, that type of thing. So that's an area that we're very excited about going forward. >> Wow, that's pretty interesting. I never kind of thought that through, because I would have assumed that, you know, kind of most of the calls for this type of data were based on some type of a litigation. You know, it was some type of an ask or a request, that I was going to ask you, now how does that actually work within the context of this sea of data, that you have. Is it usually around a specific individual, who's got some issues and you're kind of looking at their ecosystem of communications, or is it more of a pattern, or is it potentially more of a keyword type of thing that's triggering, You know, kind of this forensics into this tremendous amount of data that's in all these enterprises. >> Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. Like, so first of all, we have the ability to capture a lot of different native content sources. But we also leverage partners to bring in other content sources. We can capture over 80 different content sources, all the, you know, instant messaging, social media, of course email, but even voice communications and video communications. And to answer your question as far as litigation, I mean, it really depends on the incident right? in the past, in the old days, any kind of litigation resulted in a fire drill where you're trying to find every scrap of evidence, every piece of information related to the case. By being a little bit proactive and capturing your email, and your communication streams into immutable storage in an archive, you're ready for that litigation event. And you've already indexed that content, you've already classified that content. So you can find the needle in the haystack. You can find the relevant content to prove your innocence, or at least to comply with the request for information. Now that has also led to solving similar issues for public sector. US federal, with the Freedom of Information Act. They're getting all kinds of requests for right now for COVID related communications. And that could be related to lawsuits. it could be related to just information around how stimulus funds are being spent. And they've got to respond to these requests very, very quickly. Our team came up with a COVID-19 classification policy, where we can actually weed out the communications related to COVID-19. To allow those federal agencies, and even state and local agencies, to quickly respond to those types of requests. So that's been an exciting area for us. And then there's still the SEC requirements to monitor broker dealers and conversations with end users, to ensure they're not doing anything, they shouldn't be doing like insider trading, >> Right. Which is so different, than kind of a post event, you know, kind of forensics investigation, and then collecting that data. So I'm curious, you know, how often are you having to update policies and update, you know, kind of the sniffers and the intelligence that goes behind the monitoring to trigger a flag, And then that just go into their own internal kind of compliance reg and set off a whole another chain of events? I would imagine. >> Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things we can do with our classification policies. And like, in the case of the COVID policy, we just kind of crowd source that internally, and created a policy, in about a week, really. That we, you know, we shaped the basic policy and then kept refining it, refining it, testing it. And we were able to go from start to finish, and have it publicly available within about a week and a half. It was really a great effort. And we have that kind of ability to be very nimble, to react to different types of regulations as they become, you know, get out there. And then there's also a constant refining of even data privacy for every country that we support. You know, we have data privacy regulations for the entire European union and for most countries around the world, obviously the US, Canada, Australia, and so on. And, you can always make those policies better. So we've introduced feedback loops where our customers can give us feedback on what works and what isn't working, and we can tweak the policies as needed. But it is a great way to respond to whatever's going on in the world, to help our customer base, which, you know, is largely the financial verticals, the public sector verticals, but even healthcare is becoming more important for us. >> So Dave, I wonder if there's some other use cases that people aren't thinking about, where you guys have seen value in this type of analytics. >> Yeah, I mean, definitely the one thing that I think is just starting to emerge as the value that's inherent in communications. So I mentioned earlier the telemedicine idea, and, you know, can you learn from doctor-patient interactions if you're capturing them over telemedicine vehicles, you know again, Video Chat, Zoom, and that sort of thing. But similarly, if you've captured communications for a long time, as many of our customers have, what can you do with that data? And how can it feed into a broader data lake to give you new insights? So for example, if you want to gauge whether a major deal is about to close, you know, you can rely on your sales reps to populate the CRM and give you an indication it's 10% complete, it's 50% complete, whatever. But you're dependent on all the games that salespeople play. It would be far better to look at the pattern of a traditional deal Closing. You know, first you start out with one person at your company talking, to one person at the target customer that leads to meetings, that leads to calendar invites, that leads to emails being sent back and forth. You can look at the time of response, how quickly does the target customer respond to the sales rep? How often are they interacting? How many people are they interacting with? Is it spanning different GEOS? Is it spanning different groups within the company? Are there certain documents being sent back and forth, like, a quote for example. All of this can give you a higher confidence that that deal is going to close, or that deals failing. You don't really know. You can also look at historical data, and compare the current account manager to his predecessor. You know, does the current account manager interact with his customer as much as the former rep did? And is there a correlation in their effectiveness? You know, based on kind of their interactions, and their just basic skills. So I think that's an exciting field, and it shines a new light on the data that you have to collect, to comply with regulations, the data you have to collect for litigation and other reasons. Now there's other value there. >> Right. That's a fascinating story. So the reason that you guys would be involved in this, is because you're sitting on, you're sitting all that comms data, because you have to, for the regulation. I mean, what you're describing sounds like a perfect, you know, kind of sales force. Plug in. >> Absolutely. >> With a much richer dataset, versus as you said, relying on the sales person to input the sales force, information which would require them to remember their password, which gets reset every three weeks. So the chances of that are pretty slim. (laughs) >> Yeah. There's a fact, I think I've read a stat recently that about, you know, only 10% of information is actually captured in a CRM. You know, contact information and that sort of thing. But if you're looking at their emails, if you're looking at their phone calls and their texts, and that sort of thing, you get a rich set of data on contacts and people that you're interacting with at a target customer, and, you know, sales. More than any other job, I think sales has high turnover. And so you need that record of, you know, off the counter. One account rep leaves, you don't want to lose all their contacts and start over again. You want a smooth handover to the next person. >> Right. >> If you capture all that content from their communications into CRM, you're in great shape. >> Dave, I want to get your take on something that's happening now, because you're so dialed into policy, and policy and regulations, which are such a giant determinant of what people can and should and should not do, with data. When you take something like COVID and the conversations about people going back to work, and contact tracing. To me it's like, Wow! You know, it's kind of this privacy clash against HIPAA, and, you know, that's medical information. And yet it's like this particular disease has been deemed such that it kind of falls outside the traditional, you know, kind of HIPAA rules. They're not going to test me for any other ailments before I come in the door at work, but they, you know, eventually we're going to be scanning people. So, you know, the levels of complexity and dynamicism, if that's even a word, around something like that, that's even a one off, within a specific, you know, kind of medical data is got to be, you know, I guess, interesting and challenging, but from a policy perspective and an actual handling of that information, that's got to be a crazy challenge. >> Yeah. I mean, we do expect that COVID it's going to lead to all kinds of litigation and Freedom of Information Act request. And that's a big reason why we saw the importance very quickly, that we need a classification policy to highlight that content. So what we can do in this case is we can, first of all, identify where that content is stored. We have a product called data insight that can monitor your file system and quickly locate. If you've got a document that includes, you know, patient data or anything related to COVID-19, we can find that. And now as we bring in the communications, we can flag communications, as we archive them and say, this is related to COVID-19. Then when a litigation happens, you can look, you can do a quick search and you can filter on the COVID-19 tag. And the people you're concerned with, and the date range you're concerned with, you can easily pull in all of the communications, all of the file content, anything related to COVID-19. And this is huge for, again, for public sector, where there are subject to finance, you know, sorry, Freedom of Information Act request. But it's also going to affect every company, because like, it's going to be litigation around, when a company decided that they would work from home, and did they wait too long. You know, and did someone get sick because they weren't aggressive enough. There's going to be frivolous lawsuits, there's going to be more tangible lawsuits, and, there's going to be all kinds of activity around how stimulus funds were spent and that sort of thing. So, yeah. That's a great example of a case where you've got to find the content quickly and respond to requests very quickly. Classification go a long way there. >> Yeah. That's the lawyers have hardly gotten involved in this COVID thing yet. And, to your point, it's going to be both frivolous as well as justified. And did people come back too early? Did they take the right steps? It's going to be messy and sloppy, but it sounds like you're in a good position to help people get through it. So, you know, just kind of your final thoughts you've been in this business for a long time. The rate and pace of change is only increasing the complexity of veracity, stealing some good, old, big data words. Velocity of the data is only increasing, the sources are growing exponentially. You know, as you kind of sit back and reflect obviously, a lot of exciting stuff ahead, but what do you think about what gets you up in the morning beyond just continuing to race to keep up with the neverending see of changing regulatory environment? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think we have a great portfolio that can really help us react to change, and to take advantage of some of these new trends. And that is exciting, like telemedicine, the changes that come with COVID-19, what we could do for telemedicine rating doctors gauging their performance. We could do the same sort of thing for tele-education. You know, like I have two kids that have had, you know, homeschooling for the last three months, and, probably are going to face that in the fall. And, there might be some needs to just rate how the teachers are doing, how well are the classes interacting, and what can we learn from best practices there. So I think that's interesting and interesting space as well. But what keeps me going is the fact that we've got market leading products in archiving, eDiscovery, and supervision. We're putting a lot of new energy into those solutions. They've been around a long time. We've been archiving since 1998 I think, and doing supervision and discovery for 20 years. And, it's strange, the market's still there, it's still expanding, it's still growing. And, it's kind of just keeping up to change and, trying to find better ways of surfacing the relevant human communications content that said that's kind of the key to the job, I think. >> Right. Well yeah, Finding that signal amongst the noise is going to get increasingly... >> Exactly. >> More difficult than has been kind of a recurring theme here over the last 12 weeks or 15 weeks, or however long it's been. As you know, this kind of light switch moment on digital transformation is no longer, when are we going to get to it, or we're going to do a POC or let's experiment a little bit, you know, here and there it's, you know, ready, set, go. Whether you're ready or not, whether that's a kindergarten teacher, that's never taught online, a high school teacher running a big business. So nothing but a great opportunity. (laughs) >> Absolutely. >> All right. >> Absolutely. I mean, it's a very, a changing world and lots of opportunity comes with that. >> All right. Well Dave, thank you for sharing your insight, obviously regulation compliance, and I like that, you know, data supervision is not just backup and recovery is much, much bigger opportunity, in a lot higher value activity. So congrats to you and the team. And thanks for the update. >> All right. Thank you, Jeff. Thanks for the time. >> All right. He's Dave and I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Woman: From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to this cube conversation. Going to be digging in talking about how storage, in the software world, moving forward to cloud native containerized environment. Happy to welcome to the program. First time guests, Paul Sustman. He is the product manager for info scale storage and availability products with Veritas. Paul, thank you so much for joining us. >> Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to talk about what we're doing for support for containers and Kubernetes. >> All right, so, Veritas I think, most people should be familiar with Veritas when it comes to the storage world of course, strong and long history. Why don't you level set us first on infoscale, I've got way too much history going back to, things like Veritas volume manager, and the like, but infoscale today in 2020, how should we be thinking of it, and kind of the region has out in the marketplace? >> Yeah. First off our infoscale, infoscale is a product that's used by very critical infrastructure, the top enterprises, the top 11 out of 12 airline reservation systems, the top 19 out of 20 investment banks, right? These are companies that use infoscale to drive their business, not just an application, but actually keep their business available and operational. So, we've had a long legacy. You talked about some of the history. We are formerly known as storage foundation, going back 25 years Veritas storage foundation, as it was known at that time was one of the first virtualization technologies, where we virtualized storage for hard drives, right? That's where the volume management came in. We really support for many different file systems, both clustered or shared storage, as well as non shared storage, came out with support for Unix to Linux migrations, added support for virtualization technologies, and came out with a lot of optimizations for storage efficiency and performance optimizations. And we've been building upon that legacy ever since. We've recently come out with a lot of support for AWS cloud as well as Azure cloud, and support for SAP HANA as well as SAP netWeaver for Azure. And, we have customers who are now migrating to their SAP environments up into the cloud. So, long history of this, we came out with Docker support back in 2016 for Docker containers. We made a bet that Docker was going to win. We actually built our net backup flex appliances around the Docker platform. It turns out that wasn't quite accurate. It turns out Kubernetes won, there's some standards now that have come out around storage and networking interfaces, and the world has shifted and it's picking up that standardized platform. So we're doing the same. So, what we're doing is a couple of different things. First off, we are, coming out with a persistent storage solution, for leveraging the CSI storage interface. And, we're coming out with a high availability solution, which is leveraging some of our legacy code around VCs and around the service group technology we have an intelligent monitoring framework, to monitor what's going on inside the container. And we're going to be adding that technology in the infoscale and releasing it later this year. So that's what we're actively working on. I'm really excited about the fact that we're able to bring forward this legacy that we have, where we've done it incredibly well on physical environments and virtual environments. And as customers move to the cloud, to also support containers. We're seeing that mission critical applications are starting to move to containers. We're having a large number of our customers come to us and saying, "what's your roadmap? Where are you going on containers? We've been talking about the flex appliance, on the net backup appliance where we've done really support for that years ago." And they're looking to actively start moving some of those mission critical apps. But what they're seeing is, is that in the container environment, it's missing a lot of the enterprise capabilities that exists on physical platforms. >> Paul. >> Yeah. >> Paul, if I could, so yeah, I'm glad we got the news in here. (mumbles) if we can level set our customers a little bit. >> Sure. >> The marketplace here. So, I think back to server virtualization and VMware. We spent about a decade as an industry going from, yeah it's supported and it works with it too. How do we really optimize it, and make sure it is really supported? When you talk about cloud environment, talk about containerization, we've gone through a maturation journey there also, and in some ways it's got a little bit faster, and we've learned from the past, but it has been a journey we've been on. So, you talk about Docker helped really, bring containers to the masses and the enterprise especially. But maybe give us a little bit as to, you throw it a couple of things like interfaces that are supported to enable a storage more how Kubernetes fits into things. Help us understand, how it's not just supporting the environment, but making sure that they're optimized and take advantage of the feature functionality that people are looking for. And why they go to these containerized Kubernetes environments. >> Yeah. That's a great thing. So, first off IDC called out that containerization is actually it has a potential of replacing what VMware has done around VMs and virtual machines, and that's, I think there's several driving factors for container adoption, right. It comes down to that term cattle not pets, which is often used around containers where you're able to manage things at larger scale or a larger number of items. And it comes down to the fact that the container itself is a much smaller image size than a VM. It's a fraction of the size of a VM, and that makes it possible to be more agile. It makes it possible to have a higher density of containers versus VMs. It makes it easier to manage as well. And because of that, there's faster adoption, with developers and speed and efficiency coming about where developers are making changes quicker in a container environment. And that's very appealing to customers. So, we're seeing a lot of interest in containers. The applications that went there first were applications that were not the typical mission critical application, but we're more of a web type application that didn't have a dependency on persistent data. The data was temporal. But what we're seeing now is, as adoption happens more and more in the container environment. And as people realize that there's a lot of advantages to this container versus a VM, there looking to take those applications and lift and shift them to a container environment, to take advantage of those benefits. So, that's what we're seeing it right now. >> Yeah. It's really interesting, right. You know, Paul, when you looked at that virtualization adoption, it was what a VM really did, is it brought the whole operating system along with me. So, inside that we have, not only the operating system, but typically one application but there'll be more, as opposed to a container gets closer to that atomic unit of the application, or even if it's microservices architecture, it might just be a service inside there. So, I guess that that brings us to the point when you talk about storage, what I really care about. I care about my data, I care about my applications. As you mentioned, often there are different type of applications. Developers are building new applications, using containers as an example. Help us understand where Veritas and infoscale fits in, what applications you're supporting today from a containerized environment. And are there any things you're saying is that, "hey, this is what you should do containers, and at least for certain enterprise environments, maybe we're not quite ready for certain things here yet." >> Yeah. So let, let me take a step back. If you look at the maturity in that technology shift, in my opinion, we're at today with containers where we were early on with VMs. So, early on with the VMs, a lot of people were saying that those virtual machines, they're not really suitable for production code, they're not suitable for mission critical applications. You really should run those on dedicated hardware. In what we've seen is actually a shift in VMs, when people run pretty much everything on VMs now. It's your first platform by default, instead of a physical server. And now the same thing is kind of happening with cloud as well. In containers, what we're seeing is that the early adopters, they weren't looking for those critical or enterprise data requirements, things like security and scale and performance. They were okay with the status quo. But as people are starting to move things that drive their business, or they're going to run their business on, they really need those requirements. They need the same level set of enterprise capabilities that exists today in VMs, on VMs and exists today on physical environments or even in the cloud, a lot of capabilities in the cloud, that's very secure. It's very resilient. The data is very durable. Those capabilities exist there, but on containers, they've been lacking until recently. And so, what we're doing, is we're trying to bring those same capabilities that our customers are used to, for those customers as they're moving those mission-critical applications to containers. >> Excellent, so, let's talk about the services that that infoscale offers. When we first moved to cloud, there were some that thought, "Oh, hey, wait, maybe I don't need to think about things like high availability and data protection, I'll just architect the cloud that way." I think we know from like a security standpoint, it's a shared responsibility model that everybody understands. When it comes to containerization also, I'm often architecting things differently. So, I have to think about things a little bit different, but I don't think it removes the need, for some of the services that we typically see, from solutions like you offer from Veritas. Maybe, give us a little bit of understanding as to, is it the same, Is it a little bit different, and what is needed in today's new architecture? >> Yeah. That's a great question. So, if you look at containers, and start reading a lot of their documentation around Kubernetes, what they claim and what they point out, is that the underlying storage is responsible for the high availability of the storage. It's not the requirement of the application. It's not the requirement of the IT administrator. (mumbles) push it back on the storage. And if you look at the way storage is used or consumed with containers, it's really, there's two types of storage. There is block-level storage, which is presented from the disk array. The challenge with block-level storage by itself is that there's no data management right there. What ends up happening is that, the database does the data management and the database in order to take advantage or compensate for that lack of data management. Often what happens is the database is oversubscribed. So, you present too much data, or the database in the end up wasting space. The other side of things, the common use cases around files, and the most common use case, or the most way that most people use with containers, is actually leveraging NFS. NFS was never designed for mission critical applications. It's really designed for very small IO, and it will guarantee or maintain right consistency. But if you have multiple applications accessing the same share, who knows who's going to actually win. Somebody will win, and it might not be who you want to win. So, you have data corruption or data integrity issues with them NFS, not to mention that you have huge performance challenges with NFS. Again, it was never designed for mission critical application. And so those are areas that our customers have looked to us in the past, and look to us right now, to present storage which is very high performance and very highly available, and is often replicated across the Metro or across geo locations, across availability zones, to other data centers. So that you have multiple redundant copies. And so that you just don't lose data, right. That's something that we've done really well with infoscale and we've done that for applications that require share resources. And we've done that for applications that require their own repository, their own data store. So, it's an opportunity for customers, to use or have other storage, which is persistent, highly available, higher performance, for use with their containers, other than NFS or block storage. >> Excellent. Well, we know that the storage, we always use to joke all, is that the only constant is change, in the cloud native world, we know that it accelerating change, is the norm. Give us the final takeaway, when they think of infoscale for Kubernetes in containers, how should we think about Veritas, and what differentiates you from really the rest of the marketplace? >> Yeah. If you look at it, it's really simple. I mean we have a solution which works very well for storage, very high performance, very highly available, scales really well. We are going to be releasing a plugin for Kubernetes that will install on storage nodes and make that storage persistent and available to the application running up as a container. We're also taking the technology that we've done around, our availability suite and we are taking some of the technology forward into containers. Now, understanding that Kubernetes does the orchestration, our key differentiation is that we're going to be, monitoring the dependencies of what's critical for that application, right? All the mount points, the network interfaces, all the different processes make up that critical application. We'll be monitoring those applications, actually inside the container and then working with Kubernetes to in collaborating as far as orchestration goes, so we'll tell Kubernetes when it needs to restart the container or restart a pod. Lots of it advantages come a solution. And the way we're building it, again it integrates with Kubernetes. We monitor the what's going on inside the container, and we'll notify Kubernetes of an event change and we'll do that instantaneously. Kubernetes looks at the pod, they don't look at inside the container, right. They don't look at the processes, they don't look at the mount points. So, the pod might be available, but the container itself, you might've lost a process, you might have lost one of the containers. One of your dependencies might have gone away, and we're taking that same availability offering that we've done very well with and the physical environment, and cloud in virtual environments, and bringing that forward to containers. >> Excellent. Paul, any minimum requirements, Kubernetes of course, being open source, there are dozens of distributions out there. So, if I choose >> Paul: Yeah. >> Any of the native services from the public cloud providers or from my vendor of choice, I don't have to be like on 1.16 or 1.17 to get this, what are any considerations there? >> Well the latest version I think is 1.18, they're coming out with 1.19 soon. (murmurs) Kubernetes in my view, they came out with the standards. They came out with a standard network interface and a standard storage interface. We're leveraging those standards, and we're building a plugin towards that standard. That same plugin will be used in Kubernetes and OpenShift and VMware, as well as all the different cloud container offerings. So, our intention is to support all those. We'll be supporting Kubernetes on day one. Out of the box for Linux platforms, with all the same storage capabilities that we have with impulse scale, and with the same agent framework and monitoring framework that we have with infoscale for our availability as well. >> Excellent. Well, Paul Sustman, thank you so much. It's been great to watch the maturation of the storage environments in the container and Kubernetes world. Thanks so much joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> All right, I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching the cube. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Reporter: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston. Connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're coming to you today from our Palo Alto studios, talking about a really important topic. And that's data. And as we hear over and over and over, right data is the oil. Data is the new currency. Data is driving business decisions. Data drives AI. Data drives machine learning. Data is increasingly important. And we're still kind of waiting for it, to show up on balance sheets. Which is kind of implied in a lot of the big iterations, that we see in companies that are built on data. But one of the important things about data, is taking care of it. And we're excited to have our next guest here to talk about, some of the things you need to think about, and best practices in securing your data. Backing up your data, protecting your data. We're joined today by Tim Burlowski. He is the senior director, Product Management from Veritas. Joining us from remote. I believe you're in Minnesota. Tim, great to see you. >> Yep, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so let's just jump into it. So all we hear about is data these days. It's such an important topic, that is growing exponentially. And it's structured and it's unstructured. And it's so core to the business. And are you making database decisions? And are you getting enough data to drive your AI? And your machine learning algorithms? I mean, data is only exploding. You've been in this business for a long, a long, long time. I wonder if you can share your perspective, when you hear these things. more data is going to be created in the next 15 minutes. And wasn't the entire history of men before us? I'm making that up, but it's been quite an explosion. >> I know yeah, I know where you're coming from. And frankly, I don't even put that, in my presentation anymore. Because it's a lot like saying gravity exists, And things that you drop out, of a window will fall to the ground. Everyone's heard it. Everyone's aware of it. The numbers are just so staggering. You don't even know what to do with it. Like how many iPhones could you stack to the moon and back and then to Saturn? Doesn't make sense. But the truth is, we are seeing an explosion. Everyone knows it. We have to manage it better. Now for us, a lot of what we do, is in this data protection space. Where we want to make sure, that data is protected and always available. All of the data that's been created, and the growth in mission-critical applications. It's no longer seven to 20 mission-critical applications. It's hundreds and hundreds of mission-critical applications. Means you have to be ready, with a recent recovery if necessary. And you need to provide that data back to the consumer, as quickly as you possibly can. Because you've got people waiting on it. We've all got our apps on our phone, where we're looking at our bank account 24 seven. We don't wait until a teller appears at nine a.m anymore. It's not the world we live in. >> Right, I'm just curious if you've got some tailwinds, in terms of you're kind of, you've been in this market for a very long time. In terms of people finally realizing that their data, is really more of an asset and a liability. In the investments, to gather it, protect it, analyze it, have it ready for refresh it, If there's some problem. It's a positive investment towards, kind of revenue and strategic importance to the company, as opposed to kind of a back-office IT function, that we're kind of taking care of business because we have to. >> But that one really varies a lot by company. I see companies taking shortcuts and outsourcing, and then suddenly you'll see them in the news. And they discover that they had a major outage for a couple of days. And suddenly practices change very, very quickly. The relative comprehensive, sturdy and reliable infrastructure that people run today, sometimes lulls people into false security. And then you see a major airlines with a multi-day outage. And you go hmm, I think we missed a few steps in the process. So it sometimes takes those rude awakenings. But the companies who are really taking it seriously, and starting to practice pruning their data, examining their data for PII. So they meet various compliance regimes, and other in various states and countries. And starting to think about their backup stream, really being, how do we get a fast recovery? Instead of how do I make a copy, which I will never use again? Are really starting to drive a more efficient IT operation, when it comes to data protection. >> No, it's an interesting take, in reference to having some issue. Because we do a lot of stuff around security. Which is related to but not equal to this conversation. And one of the topics in security is that, most people have already been breached. It's just a function of how fast can you find out, and how fast can you minimize the damage? And how fast can you move on? Why are they breaching? They're breaching to get the data. So I would imagine, with this constant reading in the newspaper, of who was breached here there and everywhere, pretty much every day. That's got to be a huge driver, in terms of people kind of upping their game, and the sophistication, of the way they really think about data protection. >> It is and I'll tell you, I've had the misfortune, I would say. Of talking to customers who are in the middle of recovering, from a major ransomware malware attack. And it's a very difficult proposition. And what customers often discover is, they haven't practiced enough, they don't have enough of a DR plan present. We are certainly rising the occasion. Our products are sort of the last thing, that often stands between the customer, losing their data completely. And so we're looking at a number of technology innovations, that will enable them to store their data on immutable devices. And for the backup infrastructure, to be completely aware of that. Which we'll be announcing later this summer. Which we're very excited about. Of course, from our perspective of our appliance portfolio, we've always provided a couple of extra layers of security against intrusion detection, and intrusion prevention right out of the box. Because we know the backup infrastructure becomes this collection of the very most important data in your infrastructure. Because that's the thing you back up. And you want to restore. If there's ever any sort of manmade disaster or otherwise. >> Right. So I want to shift gears a little bit, and talk about kind of the evolution of the infrastructure kind of scene. If you will. With the rise of public clouds, with Amazon and Google and Microsoft, is sure. And then obviously, you tried into a data center. Lot of talk about HP discover, this week kind of going from edge to cloud and data center in the middle. So the environment in which these applications live, and these applications run, and where the data is, relative to those applications. Is evolved dramatically over the last, you probably have a much better time perspective than I do. Five years, 10 years. But it continues to accelerate, in this kind of Application-Centric World versus, kind of an Infrastructure Centric World. Just curious to get your take on, The kind of the challenges that presents to your company, and what you guys are trying to do to accomplish. And how do you see that continuing to evolve and get, not simpler but more complex over time? >> That is a very astute acknowledgement of what's going on in the industry. And I often call it the industry's getting weirder. I would have thought at some point, we'd sort of have Linux and Windows, and a couple of database vendors. And the truth is that database vendors exploded. And it's not just Linux anymore. It's containers. And it might be a container based on CentOS. And it might be container running in the cloud. Or it might be a simple function, like a lambda function running on nothing in AWS. And so this whole world has gotten a lot stranger. From my perspective, I think the biggest change for Veritas, has been a renewed focus on API's that we make public to customers, in ways that we can glue and stitch these systems together. Now, of course, it doesn't replace the deep integration, we do with companies like VMware, with Docker, as well as the the container ecosystem around. Open shift and some of those technologies. But from our perspective, we've had to be a little bit more prolific, in what we support. And the truth is, it's all files, it's all objects, it's all things we've done before. But they just keep bubbling up in new and different ways. >> Right, but what's interesting though, is you touch on all kinds of stuff there with Kubernetes and clouds and in containers. Is a lot of it's kind of ethereal, right? The whole idea of of a cloud-based infrastructure, is that you can bring it up and bring it down as you need it. You can adjust it as you go. And literally turn it off when you don't need it. And bring it back up. And then you add to that serverless. And this kind of increasing atomization, of all the different parts of compute. Kind of an interesting thing for you guys, to try to back up as these things are created and destructed. We hear these crazy stories of, automating Kubernetes to spin up tons of these things at a time and then bring them back back down. And then I'm curious too. Within that is also the open source. kind of challenge in continuing to have evolution in open source technologies, API's, et cetera. So it is getting weirder and weirder, on a number of fronts as you guys continue to evolve with the market. >> Absolutely, and all I'll tell you, you have to think about all technologies as being on a bridge. As I remind people, we have washing machines. They work really well but washboards still exist, even though it's a technology from 18th century, or beforehand. Now, they may be used as still do exist. Now, my point in this is, people need a bridge. Most enterprises run on an amazing amount of technology, they've developed as a stack over the last 10 to 15 years. And they can't immediately rewrite that, and put it all in a cloud container. So we're actually seeing a lot of use of containers, and Kubernetes with fairly heavy application stacks. When you think about something as heavy as, all have Oracle inside of a container. You can understand that, that's a big lift for container. And it's not ephemeral at all. Then it reaches out to storage, that has that persistence value. And that's where we come in. 'Cause we want to make sure that persistent storage, is always protected. And easily available to the customer for any recovery needs. >> Is great, so I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, to talk about regulations and compliance. 'Cause, regulatory requirements drive a lot of behavior and activity, and really oftentimes, are ahead of maybe the business prerogative to do things like provide backups, provide quick and dirty, quick and easy access. Because you needed it for, a public Freedom of Information Act request. Or you need it for some type of court type of activity. So I wonder if you can kind of talk about, how the regulatory environment, continues to evolve over time. And how does that impact, what you guys are doing in the marketplace? >> Great question. The biggest place is It's affected us, is customers are starting to think about privacy. And where do I have data which relates to, personally identifying information. And that's really driven a lot, by the European regulations around GDPR. Then we're seeing the California Privacy Act come in. And a number of other states are considering legislation in this area. In some ways, it's actually been a good news story for data protection and data management. Because people are starting to say, I should identify where the data is, I should figure out where the PII is. And I should make sure, I'm actually using my backups for the right purposes. Which is something we've always believed in. We've always thought, Hey, Mr. Customer, I see you're backing up an Oracle database for 10 years. What are you going to do with it in 10 years? Are you going to install Oracle seven and reboot it? It doesn't really add up to me. So, how can you get to a true archive, for that data you really need archive? And then for your backup set, how can you keep it lean and mean. And just keep it for the length of time you actually need it? Which for many customers, could be as little as 14, 15 days, maybe six months, maybe a year. But it's often not those extreme retentions people were thinking of, when they were building their tape based infrastructure 10 years ago. >> Right, that's funny. 'Cause as you mentioned, also I'm thinking of, is big data. Right in this constant kind of conversation. In the Big Data world is they keep everything forever, with the hopes that at some point in time, there may be a different algorithm or a different kind of process, you might run on that, but you didn't think about. Right kind of scheme on read versus scheme on right. But to your point, is that necessarily something that has to be backed up, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of policy driven activity. Than to drive the software to define what to back up, what you don't back up, how you back it up, how long you back it up? And a lot of kind of business decisions as opposed to technology decisions. >> Absolutely, that's been on the back of, the price of storing a bit of data, has declined over the last 10 years. An average 15 percent year over year. For a very long time. So people have ignored the problem. But the truth is, when you're really working at scale, there's a tremendous amount of waste. And we've identified for customers, using our data analytics technology. Millions of dollars of cost savings, where they were, both had storing files on, expensive primary tier one storage. And they were backing up those same, that same bit of information every single week. Even though it hadn't changed, or hadn't been read in seven plus years, and they couldn't find an owner for the information in the company. They literally didn't know why they had it. And I think people are starting to consider that. Especially in budget constraint times. >> Right, it's so funny, right? Sometimes it's such a simple answer, a friend one time had a startup, and he was doing contract management. This is 20 years ago. And I was like, how do you manage the complexity of contracts inside software. Again 20 years ago. And he said, Jeff, that's not it at all. We just need to know like, where is the contract? who signed it and when does it expire? And they built the business, on answering simple questions like that. It's sometimes the simple stuff that's the hard stuff. I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, on what bear toss dude in the market in terms of still having appliances? I'm sure a lot of people like weight appliances. Why are we still using appliances? This is a software defined world. And everything just runs on x86 architecture. You guys still have appliances, tell us a little bit about the why. And some of the benefits of having, kind of a dedicated hardware, software piece of equipment, versus just a pure software solution that sits on anybody's box. >> That's a great question. Thanks for asking. When I think about that world, you have to understand Veritas at its core is absolutely a software company. We build software and we preserve the choice and how the customer implements. When I say we preserve choice. We obviously still support old school Unix. We certainly have enormous investment in the x86 world, both on Windows and various Linux flavors. And of course, you can run those same That same software in the cloud. And of course, you can run it inside of a virtualized infrastructure. So we always like to preserve choice. Now why did we create the appliance business, it's frankly because customers asked us to. The thing that made storing backups on disk affordable, was this technology known as deduplication. Which at its heart is just a fancy kind of compression, That's very, very good at copies of data, where there's a lot of blocks that are have been seen before. And so we don't store them if we've seen them before. We simply store the ones that are new and fresh. So from our perspective, customers said, "we want this technology." And the market really moved away, from general purpose solutions on servers to do that. Because it was very hard to build something, that could have a very high throughput, very high memory, and at the same time, could give excellent support for random access reads, when the customer actually needed to read that data. And so we created a purpose built appliances as a result. And what we discovered in the the process was, there were a lot of pieces that were actually fairly hard in the enterprise. So when a customer would describe, the purchasing process of their typical solution before appliances, they would talk about, filing tickets with the server team. Filing tickets with the storage team. Filing tickets with security team. And sometimes taking six or nine months, to get a piece of equipment ready to install the backup software on the floor. Whereas with ours, they placed an order, it showed up on the dock, as soon as it when it was in the rack, they were ready to go and working independently. Now while we have a great and thriving appliance business, we're very, very proud of, we always preserve choice at Veritas. And even though that's the business I represent, I would make sure our customers always understand, that we're interested in the best platform for the customer. So that's our basic perspective. If you want to go deeper, let me know where you have questions. (chuckles) >> Well, I'm curious on the process, when there's a fail, when there's attack, when there's ransomware, whatever. When you need to go back to your backup. What are some of the things that your approach enables, or what are kind of the typical stumbling blocks that are the hardest things to overcome. That people miss when they're planning for that. Or thinking about it. That kind of rear their ugly heads, when the time comes that, oh, I guess we need to go back to a backup version. >> Yeah, and I'll break that input into this disaster recovery or restore process. And then also the process of backup. So when you think about that disaster recovery, and I'll use ransomware as that piece of it. Because that's the real kind of disaster, when you're looking at equipment in the infrastructure, which has been wiped clean. That's a worst case scenario for most IT managers. When you think about that situation, we've built into our appliances first of all, a hardened Linux OS. Meaning we've shrank down that OS as much as we possibly could. Second, we've added role-based access protection. To make sure that you simply can't log in and perform activities which you're not privileged to perform. And then we have intrusion protection software, intrusion detection software. To ensure that even for those zero day attacks, that we may not even be aware of when we release our software, that the system is hardened. Of course, you have firewalls and STIG rules, STIG or rules are DoD standard, for hardening Linux based devices. So we've got a hardened device. And I was talking to a customer, in a different part of the world this week. Where they described having a data center, where everything had been wiped. And there's one thing left there, their NetBackup appliances. And they were then able to then take that, and use that for the restore. Because that was a real vault for their data. Now, the flipside is, that's a rare day. So that is truly a black swan event. When you think about day to day, and we're running a data protection operation, really think about speed of backup. And for us being able to take something that's neatly tuned for the hardware, the operating system, the tuning, the net backup software is all configured out of the box and ready to go. And the data protection folks, can be independently able to drive that is a great value. Because essentially, you have Lego style building blocks. Where you can order device, it always performs the same. And three years from now, you don't have to redesign it. And take your expensive IT staff and ask them to figure out what's the best solution. We've just got another one off the shelf for you, another series in the model. >> Right >> Now, as you said earlier, the world's getting weirder. It definitely is. So we'll be branching off into what kind of appliances we offer. And you'll see some announcements later, in the year where we'll be offering some reference architecture approaches, which will be a little different than what we offer today. Just to meet the customer demand that's out there. >> Yeah, that's great. I mean, 'cause as you said, it's all about customer choice. And meeting the customer where they want to meet. But before I let you go, this is pretty interesting conversation. I want to get your perspective, as someone who's been in the business, for a really long time. And as you look at opportunities around, machine learning and artificial intelligence, and you look at kind of the I'm going to steal your line about things getting weirder. And use over and over. But as they continue to get weirder and weirder, where do you see kind of the evolution is, you kind of sit back, not necessarily in the next six months or so. But where do you see growth opportunities and places you want to go? That better still out in front of you, even though you've been doing this for many, many years? >> Well, that's a great question. So this is yet another wave. And that's often how I look at it. Meaning, there's a wave of Unix. There's a wave of windows. There's wave of virtualization. And each of these technologies, brought some real shifts to our environment. I think, from my perspective, the next big wave is dealing with ransomware. And some of these compliance requirements we talked about earlier. And then I can't get away from this big data, AI piece and my son's studying computer science in college. And that's a weekly conversation for us. What's new in that front? Because I think we're going to see, a lot more technology developed there. We are just truly on the beginning of that curve. And frankly, when I think about the companies I work with, they have a tremendous amount of data. But that's really only going to increase, as they realize they can actually develop value from it. And as you mentioned, first thing once it shows up on the balance sheet, suddenly everyone's going to get very excited about that. >> Yeah, it's so funny, right? 'Cause it basically does show up on the balance sheet of Facebook, and it shows up on the balance sheet of Google. But it's just not a line item. And I keep waiting for the tipping point, to happen where that becomes, a line item on the balance sheet. Because increasingly, that is arguably, the most important asset. 0r certainly the information and learning that goes around that data. >> You're right. And frankly, it's an insurable asset at this point. You can go to a company in a number of commercial settings and get ransomware insurance, for instance. So people are definitely recognizing the value of it if they're willing to insure it. >> Right, right. All right, Tim. Well, thank you very much for stopping by. And giving us an update really interesting times in, kind of taking care of business and really the core of the business, which is the data inside the business. So, important work. And thanks for taking a few minutes. >> All right, thanks. I'll be glad to be back anytime you want me. >> Alright, He's Tim. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host Stu minimun hi I'm Stu minimun and welcome to a special cube conversation here in our Boston area studio the one constant that we know for customers is change and how they manage their data there are applications in this ever-changing world is something that is always interesting to dig into and helping me with this conversation first time guests on the program Joe DeAngelo who is a distinguished engineer and national practice lead of availability solutions with Veritas is here with me Joe thanks so much for joining us it's - thanks for having me yours is great all right so first before we get into it give us a little bit about you know your background what you work on how long you been with Veritas sure so I've been with Veritas for nine years in various different roles I was a product manager when I joined the company since then I joined the field sales technical or technical field sales organization working as an advocate with some of our more strategic customers sort of like the liaison back to the product team before that I was a consultant sort of as a implementing these technologies from Veritas and of course it was a customer - so always had sort of that round out that full full spectrum of experience with love that we can draw on some of your experience as a customer right let's start there if we will now you're working with a lot of customers and the space you're working on the availability solutions I kind of teed it up with we know that there's change happening you know when I talk about customers in their cloud journey it is an ever moving thing it's not a one-way thing there's data centers there's cloud there's edge there's all of these environments and what you know figuring out what application what application goes where and how that's changing over time is there's a real challenge for customers these days is it not it absolutely is and really one of the sort of the foundational tenants of the availability solutions at Veritas is that we give customers the ability to sort of decouple their applications from all of that sort of chaos that's in the in their infrastructure whether it's in the cloud whether it's hyper-converged physical virtual different storage technologies they can run their application where they need to run it when they need to run it and be to know that it'll be performance yeah well we know from Veritas as legacy I remember seeing the billboards and the t-shirts there are no hardware agenda so you understand Veritas has always been a software share company when you look at that kind of wave of you know software-defined storage and the like help us understand you know today here's 2020 we're living in the future you know what that means for you know customers data is customers application what the availability solution in the product lines that you work yeah I mean that's that's a terrific question well what it means is you have a myriad of choices you have to decide on so it's not just the individual application but really the the composition of those apps and the relationships they have with other different other applications you mentioned software-defined storage I mean we cut our teeth on software-defined storage back when that wasn't even a term you know thirty years ago all right I like to think that it's almost in our DNA that you know taking and virtualizing storage is one of the first things we did as a technology today we we've taken that same sort of approach to commoditizing most of the infrastructure so that it doesn't matter what operating system it doesn't matter what storage vendor you use doesn't matter what cloud provider you use our technology gives you the luxury or I like to say breathing room in many cases to make those decisions so that they can align with your business outcomes more effectively all right so Joe the the product we're going to be talking a bit about is info scale for people that aren't familiar you know what is info scale how does it fit in this ever-changing landscape you mentioned you know cloud and operating systems and hypervisors and everything so help us tee up we're in for a scale fits sure thing so info scale is really a moniker if nothing else on top of our storage foundation veritos volume manager Veritas file system veritas cluster server technologies and those have been industry staples for decades right being able to address the needs of the most critical applications and so most stringent and high demanding workloads be at the top financial institutions health care providers etc the the technology itself really addresses resiliency and availability from sort of three areas we'd like to think that you can provide the ability to keep your services online with our with our high availability and disaster recovery solutions but we also wanna make sure that those applications and those data sets that you're using the technology with making sure that they're performing right because an underperforming application is just as detrimental to availability as would be a simply going offline and we also want to give you the ability to migrate workloads and move those applications among different technologies so that's really where the the focus of impost scalable it ok so you know Joe when you have customers that are trying to figure out ok I'm taking an application do I take that from my data center do I move that to the cloud I'm building a new application where do I do that how does in fel scale fit into that discussion and how is the discussion of info scale fit with the infrastructure discussion that they are having yeah absolutely so inevitably what the choice a lot of the customers I have conversations with struggle with just what's the first step to get to the cloud and many of them are locked into a proprietary solution or some technology that doesn't really have an analogue or some sort of equivalency in the cloud with info scale what we allowed them to do is actually replicate that data anywhere they want to go because you said we don't have a hardware agenda it doesn't matter what the storage underneath the covers might be so we can go from physical storage on Prem into the public cloud across any variety of different tiers of storage that exists there and this works at not just the from a data set standpoint but the applications as well so if you've got something as critical as a database a relational database that's Oracle them as a sequel database whatever may be you can very easily replicate those and move those workloads into the public cloud for purposes of migrations or disaster recovery with truth be told of the exact same thing you know migrations just a one-way ticket a dr is a roundtrip ticket but the technology is exactly the same so that's how you're able to achieve those goals ok we talked about application in general you mentioned some specific is there you know you know a compatibility list or you know what sorts of classes of applications how do I know if my application today is something that fits under this certainly so we have a catalogue of agents that we support what we call our bundled agents or agent framework and it it's a list of roughly over 500 different infrastructure components applications and services that we monitor and protect for the purposes of again for disaster recovery and migration capabilities pretty much all the enterprise applications the most prolific workloads that are in the in the industry today so are your databases or middleware to your application servers those are all included but we also have the ability to very easily introduce custom applications so a customer can take and say they may have written something homegrown and it has any number of different components to it if you could tell me how to start it how to stop it how to monitor it we can put it into info skill okay Joe I think we paint a pretty good picture of what info scale is maybe if you have a customer example that might help us understand a little bit about kind of the use cases and commonly why they're using it now that work well I can I have a little bit of an anecdote that I like to tell a story about a customer a state agency that was a big info scale user just happened to be on Windows and we've gotten through a deployment and everything was looking great and they were able to move all of their their their applications in this particular these Windows applications all in it being particularly info scale being replicated and having both high availability as well as disaster recovery and everything was looking great I finished the project on a Friday afternoon and bye-bye Sunday morning I was getting frantic phone calls from the people that I was working with at the time I was actually a consultant and they're asking me what what happened what's going on why what's what's what's the issue here I go I left the customer just fine on Friday there were no issues at all and they said you need to reach out to your team there and see what's going on so we're getting some phone calls that there's some problems like okay so I got on the phone and I spoke to my contact there and he said oh no nothing's wrong with the environment but we might have some issues with who's gonna be maintaining it come Monday morning and I go why it was well I think half the team well pretty much all the team's gonna be calling in rich Monday morning and I go what are you talking about goes the entire IT staff hit the Mega Millions jackpot so the this is the entire staff this was the DBAs the network admins the manager the managers manager all had the Mega Man jackpot so needless to say they weren't too concerned about coming into work on Monday morning but this poor person that was left he was holding the bag he said we already reached out to support your guys are on the call we're confident knowing that you know that that veritas is going to be there to help us through this transitional period because we've got this consistent layer so I used that example because it's a fantastic story but too it addresses the fact that disasters come in many different flavors and many different you know they can produce and manifest in many different ways and your people that to me that that's always your most critical asset and when those suffer that you know this technology is there really helped address me well Joe I like that example rather than I think going forward rather than saying well what happens if one of your critical staff gets hit by a bus yeah what if your entire support team you know it did happen all right what would you say are some of the kind of misconceptions that but maybe people don't understand if they're that they haven't look closely at in post-game lately yeah great question so I think some of the misconceptions about it is that it's tied to a very specific sort of heritage big iron unix only workloads admittedly we cut our teeth in that space right whether it's going back in the days of the original Sun OS and some of the the big iron systems we gained a lot of traction a lot of you know we earned our stripes in that space but in reality that that space is shrunk tremendously over the last you know 10 or 15 years for a variety of reasons and I think there's still some misconception that that info scale or veritas you know volume management file system only is relevant in that space and truth be told nothing could be further from nothing to be further from the truth because if you go back to what I comment I made earlier about this idea of commoditizing that infrastructure we can help customers transition throughout all those different sort of points of inflection so if going from the big iron to go into the more commodity commoditized you know x86 hardware going from physical to virtual going from virtual to the cloud going from virtual to hyper-converged and even back in some cases we have the capabilities and the wherewithal to be able to help customers do those kinds of transitions yeah I've been in the industry long enough I remember a lot of those UNIX migrations you know whether it going over to Windows whether I'm going over the Linux what would you say are some of the similarities some of the differences from what we did in those environments compared to what's often a cloud discussion today yeah so truth be told is that we we we tend to not reinvent the wheel at Veritas we look and say okay what are some of the really you know tremendously powerful tools and capabilities that we have how do we apply those to new platforms you take the cloud for example one of the things that we've always prided ourselves on is giving customers again that breathing room to make a decision and say I'm gonna move to a new platform so I can literally take a worker that was running on UNIX and I can move it over to Linux well that same model now can be applied where I can take that legacy work load running in Solaris I can move that directly into the public cloud and that's something that turns a lot of heads because I asked a lot of customers I know would it be compelling if I had a means for you to be able to take that legacy Solaris environment or that UNIX workload and I can write it directly into say ec2 in AWS and they're all there it's it's they're incredulous they're thinking no this can't happen there's no way you can do this and I said yes it can because we look at the cloud is another platform and we want to be able to have customers take full advantage of it exploit it but at the same time not be fearful that they won't have a way to move data in and out yeah oh it's Veritas helping with some of the the management pieces when you talk about going through those migrations it's one thing about what platform I live on but how do I manage that environment what skills that do I need yeah how are you working hand-in-hand with your customers on that well the great thing about it is is that there is a there's a sense of parity between what we do on Prem and what you do in the public cloud when you're using info scale because again we consume cloud resources just like they were any other platform so whether you were going from physical to virtual virtual to hyper converts or into the public cloud the same operations the same configurations the same the same scripts the same user interface all the things all of the the the machinery and the tooling that's around those applications can can can be consistent and in many cases that is it is invaluable because a lot of customers while they want to adopt the public cloud they don't want to have to redefine their operational paradigm they want to be able to take those workloads and I want to just be able to scoop them up and say put me in the public cloud I don't want to change everything around it because I don't have the bandwidth to do that to take on a whole new react of texture using the cloud that's that's basically starting your IT from from zero and building only backup and they don't have the time or the money or the resources to make that happen so looking for that consistency looking for that parity between the on-prem the public cloud all right what are some of the features that are most resonating with your customers well I would say first and foremost the the the fact that that our core technology around volume management helps you to virtualize storage all the capabilities you have there the fact that our file system can transition between different different Indians rate going from UNIX to Linux going from from Solaris to Red Hat and so on that gives you that flexibility our Hardware agnostic replication with volume replicator giving you the ability to not only provide dr over any geographic distance but also the ability to migrate between those platforms so being able to take and replicate data that's on a UNIX system today into the public cloud running Linux so that's with volume replicator we also have capabilities that allow you to utilize local storage in the sense that and treat it like it's shared storage some of the challenges with the public cloud are around some of the restrictive storage architectures so you take like a an availability zone inside of AWS all that storage is only available inside of at that particular availability zone if you want to move an application over to the other node you can't share storage between those availability zones we didn't focus Caleb you can and you can basically address some of those gaps or shoot through some of those blind spots yeah how was your team helping your customers keep up with all those changes you know we look at the public cloud there there's always new instances there's new zones there's it's it's a constant reinvention happening and day out yeah absolutely so a couple of things were happening first and foremost we're in the marketplace we have CF T's we've got you know a.m. eyes for that product so that you can further info scale so you can spin those up much more quickly working to get in the same thing for the azure marketplace we integrate with a lot of the automation and orchestration tools that are in the market today the ansible is the Puppets the chef's making sure that what I call the time to value for our technology is as short as possible so that you get out of the business of becoming you know a very tossed admin but focusing more on your on your business and what Veritas can do to help you improve that yeah it's interesting stuff a lot of automation going on in this space you know it's a very different world for your customers you know is is there some that you need to kind of react eight customers as do you know what Veritas is doing today versus what they might yeah there's there's a we're we're not your father's Veritas kind of mentality that we try to promote and I think you you've seen over the last 12 to 18 months that our our messaging our corporate strategy in general has had a tremendous sort of resurgence of info scale being a big part of that because recognize that when you talk about Veritas as a whole with our API strategy of availability protection and insights availability of your services in your data are critical to your success as an enterprise not just from an IT perspective and it's where info scale really plays sort of the the sort of the critical role in achieving that any other what sort of outcomes do you do your customers find once they've rolled these solutions out well I think operationally that there is a significant reduction in the overhead needed to make some of the more complex and and and really challenging operations you know cookie cutter I had a customer just last week you know this might sound like a little bit of you know self-promotion but he said storage foundation is the single greatest software-defined storage technology that's ever been written and because they are able to achieve a migration on a scale that they never would have been able to achieve without without a technology like this and of course I know there's no way to vet that statement but you're just going to if the customer is gonna has said it we will take them on there he did it it was I took pause I'm like wow I was like can I quote you on that he was just like yes you may Joe what else what other features underneath or kind of lesser-known things from info scale do you want to make sure customers know about oh yeah I mean listen there there are so many incredible capabilities that are included with info scale I would say that most important is that you know we can do things like transparently tear storage between on-prem and the public cloud and that can be something as granular as and as an Oracle database or something is you know general-purpose is just a shared you know NFS file system we have intelligent caching mechanisms to accelerate performance of workloads that again address the issues of performance on Prem as well as the public cloud we can help you transition your applications we have a migration wizard framework inside of our dashboard our info scale operations manager that allows you to on you know on the fly establish all of the necessary relationships between the different different clusters to be able to move applications from from from UNIX to the Linux move it from physical to virtual to go from a virtual and a hyper-converged we identify all those pieces and you know I said in an on-demand fashion build all the components for you we have you know a number of different you know what's most common talk about today is ransomware right this idea that how do we insulate our data from the from the threats of ransomware you can do so many different off host snapshot recovery method methodologies with info scale right creating an air gap between your data and secondary data sets that you can recover instantly from but has that enough gap so that that something that would corrupt the primary data set would not infiltrate your secondary copies so I mean there's just so many cool things that it can do it's just the use cases are just pretty you know innumerable yeah so last question Joe is a let's go up level a little bit you talk about you know the application portfolios really changing for a lot of customers lift relational databases we talked about you know virtual and physical and and cloud environments ever changing so when customers think about Veritas how should they when and how should they be thinking about Veritas well especially from from the from an availability standpoint it's really about abstracting your applications from the underlying infrastructure providing a resilient and performant storage layer to achieve really the the goals of your business not just the goals of your IT because at the end of the day we want to make sure that there is a direct line of sight between what you're trying to do is an enterprise what you're trying to do as a business be it a financial service institution healthcare provider doesn't matter what the industry is and that that the investments you make an IT can directly contribute to that and with Veritas we really help customers to make that a reality and we do it tactically with the idea of protecting your applications and ensuring that you have resilient services and we do it strategically by giving a platform to be able to host any number of different applications across all different operating systems and technologies so DeAngelo thank you so much for all the updates really a pleasure all right be sure to check out the cube net for all of the interviews we have go hit the search you can find past interviews we've done with Veritas as well as all the shows that we'll be at at 2020 and beyond I'm Stu minimun and thank you for watching the Q

>>LA Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Good morning from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Summa and Amanda, we are coming to you live from AWS reinvent 19. This is the QSA second full day of coverage and Stu and I are pleased to welcome one of our cube alum back to the program. We have Greg Hughes, the CEO of bear toss. Greg, welcome back. Good morning. >>Be here. Thank you. Yeah, >>this, this is 10, 10, 15 in the morning and this is already jam pack. Lots of buzz. Lots of, lots of news yesterday. I think that's kind of an understatement. Give us a little, a bit of an overview of their and AWS, what you guys got going on. >>It's, it's an amazing show, first of all. And uh, I was, the keynote yesterday was pretty incredible. Three hours long. I mean that, that stamina involved in a three hour keynote. I got to get hats off to Andy Jassy for doing that. Uh, one of the big announcements that was in that, uh, keynote was that outpost has been, is now generally available. And, uh, Amazon outpost is basically the Amazon web services that you can put within your data center. Okay. So we talk a lot about this hybrid cloud model on-prem in your data center and private cloud all the way to the public cloud. And so that is the outpost announcement and we're really excited to say that we are a partner with AWS on Amazon, uh, outpost and we have a designed and tested and validated solution on AWS outpost. So if you move your applications of customer moves, their applications on to outpost, they have the peace of mind knowing that their data is protected by Veritas. >>So we're really excited. Yeah. So, so Greg, everybody absolutely is very interested in outposts. Uh, I've just spent a couple of days in meetings trying to dig in. Uh, it is the building block, Amazon juicing for things like AWS, local zones, uh, AWS wavelength for 5g. One of the questions I really have for the ecosystem, cause I've seen a lot of announcement is this is yes it's the nitro chip and hardware and a subset of services that you would get from AWS. And from a management standpoint it looks like you've just put in a Z in your data center. But talk to us a little bit about what does it mean to actually integrate there. Cause Veritas has been an AWS partner for a number of years. I understand what it means to use Veritas in the public cloud. Walk us through some of the nuance and detail of what new we, well we have a very, very close partnership with AWS. >>Our engineers work very closely together and we did proceeding this announcement. And basically in this specific case, it means if you have an application or data on Alpos, it will be automatically backed up to the cloud, to a S3 through Veritas NetBackup. And so you can manage your outposts through Amazon, you're Veritas to state through our NetBackup console. And though things work seamlessly together. Yeah. So, so just one, when I looked at it, it's a, there, there's things like a, you know, ECS and EMR and RDS are in there. Yes. Three is not yet a service available on outpost, not available on outposts, but we can button connect it as three in the back. So that's what I'm trying to understand is where does my data live and how do I protect it without posts? Well you can, you can manage that through a essentially. So that's primarily the use case is for backing up to make sure your data is protected when it's on outpost. We see customers that want to experiment with outposts, they want to try cloud services. They have certain applications and certain workloads that are low latency and need low latency. And so they're going to run those in their data centers and those applications, those workloads can be protected through Veritas just like everything else is protected by Veritas. That's the idea. >>So for customers who have been with Veritas for a long time and they've got a cloud strategy that they're working on, walk us through maybe a, I don't want to use the word migration, but maybe an evolution. If they're saying, all right, there's workloads that we want to move to public cloud, what would that process be like for an existing customer? We spend >>a lot of time working with AWS on what that journey looks like and, uh, we developed a set of what we call well architected reviewed solutions that, that Amazon reviews and that we've invested in so that, uh, our customers can depend on this. These solutions working well together usually starts with backing up to the cloud. Okay. Instead of using secondary storage or tape backing up to the cloud. And so, uh, we have a customer put to furrow grope. It's a financial services firm that was able to leverage our appliances for on-prem rapid restore, but tear off the data to S three. So that's usually the start. Uh, the second step is using the cloud as a dr site. A lot of companies as you know, invest in data center capacity just for disaster recovery. It's not used all that often. And so that's an obvious thing. >>You can move to the cloud and have a data center on demand, so to speak. So we have a customer China Marine that is using our, our product Veritas resiliency platform to do that with AWS. And then finally it's moving your whole application stack to the cloud in migrating your data to the cloud. It still needs to be protected, right? Uh, it's still a customer's responsibility to protect that data in the cloud. And in that case, the Veritas products work really well in AWS. We can protect the workloads in the cloud. We have a environmental services firm, they, uh, that has moved their applications cloud still using Veritas for data protection. So that's really how we think about it. So Greg Veritas, what one of your strengths do you have? A very large install base and therefore I expect you to have a good visibility into what your customers are doing. >>Bring us on site a little bit when we talk about, you know, leveraging the cloud, it's agility and a modernizing my applications. We know, you know, changing my application stack is a longterm challenging thing to do. But do you have any kind of business outcomes, any proof points as to, you know, what your customers, you know, what do they get as they're uh, maturing their, their, their cloud journey. And evolution has a Veritas, so we work with, you know, our customers are 86% of the fortune 500. We work with the largest institutions on the planet the most. So I like to say the largest, most complicated, most highly regulated enterprises on the, on in the world, 10 of the top 10 financial services, 10 of the top 10 telco healthcare. Those are all our customers and they're all moving towards a hybrid world to leverage the cloud, but also have on prem data centers in a hybrid environment. >>And one of these they really want to leverage is that cheap and deep storage in the cloud. So, and we're seeing a very easy thing for our customers to do is to migrate from backing up to disk and tape for long term retention to backing up to the cloud, leveraging S3 glacier deep archive. Andy talked about it yesterday. It's lower than the price to tape our cus. Many of our customers still using tape for longterm retention. And it's just very simple step to data protection modernization, leveraging the cloud to replace though that secondary storage and tape with, with the cloud and the storage in the cloud. So for an organization that has thousands of endpoints, servers, virtual environments, SAS applications, can they manage all of that in the cloud through like a, a single bear toss dashboard? How do you allow that, like comprehensive data protection? >>That's our journey essentially. And you know, weight and, and our value proposition is that end to end data management. Uh, we, we kind of think of ourselves as the Switzerland of the storage and data protection world. We work with everything. Uh, we work with a 500 different workload types. We back up to 150 different, uh, storage targets, including many of the cloud service providers. So that's really our whole value proposition is that ability to give you that abstraction across all the complex storage silos you have. We can take care of availability, protection and insights. That's what we do. So a few years ago, uh, we, we saw a little bit of a bit flip when we talk about security and the cloud. It used to be, you know, for, for the early days of the cloud it was, I can't do cloud because I'm worried about the security. And now many thought security is an opportunity, uh, when I go to the cloud the last year or two, it's a very nuanced discussion. >>Uh, and the relationship between my data, my cloud providers, my information and data protection, uh, is something that we've been digging into a lot. Uh, at the 80 most reinforced show inaugural show this year. Uh, we had a lot of great conversations. CSOs, um, have a challenge. It's a board level discussion. Uh, what are you hearing from your customers and what's their tosses role? And a straight question. Uh, look, uh, security is a board level conversation and when I go talk, I spend about 30 to 50% of my time talking to customers and the cyber threat is real in particular ransomware. What are, what the enterprise is worried about is uh, that their data gets completely encrypted through a ransomware attack and they're dead in the water. You know, they can't ship product, they can't bill, they can't run payroll. And the challenge is that the malware is going to get in spearfishing works. >>When you get those emails that say click on this link, you know, in many cases people still click on the link and the bad stuff gets in. So what you need is you need a resilient infrastructure and at the foundation of that is to make sure you've got a protected copy of your data that you can depend on and roll back to that, you know, is good. And that's really driven a lot of our business in the last few years is making sure we have, we can help our customers have that resilient data. It's true, whether in the public cloud or on prem, same, same challenge, right? From a ransomware perspective to help reduce spread is data protection in the cloud and an enabler of mitigating the rest that ransomware provides in terms of data not traversing through a customer's network. If it's protected in the cloud, ransomware attack can occur too in your cloud or on prem. >>It really doesn't matter. It's a. They don't really care. The bad guys don't care. Uh, but what you need ultimately is your copy of your data that you can go back to and you can restore everything else you can. Uh, you know, you, you can create, but that data, that state of your business, that's really the crown jewels and if they've corrupted that, you know, you're in trouble. So related to the security governance of course, has been a big discussion. Uh, last year, uh, every single show I went to was talking about GDPR. This year we're all waiting for the California law to roll out and we expect more of this to happen. Uh, you know, what are the discussions you're having with your customers there? And, uh, what, what, what's the, the regulatory environment is really moving fast. A lot more regulations around data. I was taught, it's funny, I was talking to a customer in st Louis and they said the California data privacy act was going to be the death of them. >>Yeah. You don't think about that for a customer in st Louis, a big customer. Uh, I was talking to a customer in Australia and she said she has to deal with 27 different regulatory regimes. So how do you do that when the dirty secret is you don't know where all your data is, you don't know what's important, what's not. Uh, you know, most of our customers have very difficult time assessing that. So where Veritas comes in is we have some solutions that provide insight into that to allow you to understand where is your data, what can be deleted, what's really important, what's pie, what's protected, what's not protected. To really give you some insight in that across all the different silos that Andy was talking about. Yes. >>Showing them really where some of the vulnerabilities are that they might be completely blind to >>say the risks and vulnerabilities that they have that they don't know and that's now becoming a board level topic. So we're getting pulled in. I was actually in Europe a couple of weeks ago and one of our customers said, look, I need to present to the board they insights that Veritas is providing me on my infrastructure is safe so that they're aware, >>let's push them for you. Yesterday when everything kicked off and you're right, it was a marathon. A three hour keynote is very impressive. There's a lot of news packed in there. One of the biggest themes is transformation. It's a word that we talk about transformation, right? We talk about security, transformation, digital transformation, workforce transformation. It's used commonly, but yesterday was really sort of like this, this sort of reinvention of of AWS, but this transformation that Andy was saying, and it sounds like something that you're hearing that this has to come from senior, the senior level of really understanding transformation. Not just do we go to the cloud, how, when, what? But also ultimately it's about data and if you can't access the data, if you can't restore data quickly, if there is, whether it's a human error or some sort of catastrophic event, you can't get to what you need, the business suffers. Right. And there's going to be another competitor whose objects are close to the Napier in the mirror. Right. Who are ready to come in and take over that business. Give me a little bit of a, of a kind of an overview as we wrap up here about their tosses transformation as customers are having to pivot really quickly to use data as a competitive advantage. Yes. >>Well look, we think about, uh, you know, our, our role in digital transformation is in the data transformation part of that. Uh, you can't have digital transformation without transforming your data. Uh, we've talk a lot here about data has gravity. It can distance to stick where it is. We're trying to make that data mobile flexible, protected, available and visible. And that's really our role is in, in digital transformation to give you the freedom to use your data wherever you want to. >>That's what we do. One last question actually on the data has gravity. We talk about that a lot. Your last thoughts on Amazon and moving towards where that gravity is with post for an example, this is another example of I think yesterday and John furrier even uncovered this and his exclusive with Andy Jassy. It's AWS everywhere, which is just like Amazon. >>I can actually just to to build on that, uh, John furrier and I to Andy Jassy like three years ago said the next flywheel for Amazon is data. You stayed, absolutely. Data's come up over and over again. I think, you know, we're working very closely together with AWS to help make this journey easy for our customers. We're both very customer obsessed, you know, that came up a lot. We are customer obsessed as well. We're innovating step-by-step. We were the first launch launch partner with a glacier deep archive. So we attend to be at the forefront of allowing our customers to leverage AWS and know that they're protected by their AtoZ. >>Yeah, those demanding customers. Right. Well, Greg, thank you for joining Stu and me on the program sharing what's new with their toss and AWS and the transformation that you're both undergoing. We appreciate it. Take care of our student, man. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from day two of our coverage of AWS reinvent 19 thanks for watching.

(upbeat instrumental music) >> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, Celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. (upbeat instrumental music) Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome back everyone. theCUBE's Live coverage here in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, VMworld 2019 coverage. Dave, 10 years of Cube coverage, Yip! we started out 10 years ago. VMworld is the last show standing. Our next guest is Todd Forsythe, CMO of Veritas. Great to see you, first time on theCUBE. Thanks Todd. It is inaugural. (John laughs) Aafter 25 years in the industry, it's crazy. With your talent, I think we're going to have a good segment here. I'm sure we will. Very entertaining. No, seriously we've known each other, we were on an advisory board together. You're a prolific marketer, you do a lot of great things. You're progressive, you try new things with startups, but also you got to run a big operation. >> Todd: That's right. MarTech stacks, you like to look at platforms. This is a re-platforming of the internet we're seeing with Cloud 2.0, and I want to get your thoughts on this, because you got a unique perspective at Veritas, you know, an older brand modernized in real time. That's right. New products refresh in a massively changing growth, still growth market. It's a data business. Absolutely. That's right, a 100%. So what's your take on this? As you look at the landscape, you've got the modern brand, you got to take it out there, new products. You know it's interesting, I had a really fascinating conversation yesterday with a customer, and the customer said, "You know, I was walking through the expo hall, "and I saw Amazon, I saw Microsoft, "I saw IBM, I saw Dell Technologies, "I saw Kubernetes, I saw Pure, I saw Nutanix, "I thought I was in my own data center." And it's interesting, I think about our business, and in our business, data doesn't care. Like you know data doesn't care if you're running a modern architecture. Data doesn't care if you're running Legacy. So what we're really focused on is helping companies manage data in highly complex, and extremely demanding environments regardless of their infrastructure. And Cloud 2.0 speaks to the complexity of that, because you know, these, and we were talking earlier with VMware about these categories that used to exist, these Gartner Magic Quadrants. You know, you can't put something that's not a silo in a silo, you're horizontally disrupting. And data does that, data has to move around and it's got to move everywhere. So there's no more silo boxes of categories. A 100% agree, you know it's interesting, we launched Enterprise Data Services earlier this year, and that was the precise reason why, because we've relooked at what data protection is. Data protection is no longer backing up your data from a cloud to a cloud from your on Prime, it's a much broader category. It covers how your data becomes available, how resilient you are, understanding where your data is, how it's categorized so you can respond to ransomware attacks, manage regulations around the world. So our view of data protection is a platform that is horizontal and cuts across. Well you guys, I mean the heritage of Veritas is the original data management company, right? Yeah. With no hardware agenda, and so my question for you, Todd, is what attracted you to Veritas? Softball question, so the most amazing customers any company could possibly imagine, Global 2000, the top telecommunications companies, the top banks, top stock exchanges. Secondly a product strategy that's really zoned in, back to your point about this, a platform that cuts across all of these diverse technologies and solves problems for customers that abstracts them from the complex environments that they're in so they could focus on outcomes, and Greg has done an amazing job recruiting a top notch leadership team. So it was really great product, good leaders. Okay now, follow up is you guys, you know, number one, top anyway, right and with Gartner Magic Quadrant, everybody wants a piece of your hide, (chuckles) the whole industry is coming at you. So, what's the sort of messaging strategy to keep top spot from both outward facing and also product development? Sure, sure. So we look at two types of competitors. Competitors that are offering point solutions, predominately playing in the mid-market, and when you're a large financial institution, and you have a highly complex environment, you're in a multi-cloud world, and you can't afford to have a siloed backup data. So you need to understand how your data is classified, where it's stored. So if you're responding to ransomware, and that ransomware attack is targeted to a specific server, you need to know if you have PII there, or if you have cat pictures there. If you have cat pictures there, then, (chuckles). >> John: Let 'em have it. Let 'em have it, exactly. (John laughs) So our platform cuts across protection, availability, and insights, which categorizes your data. So the data gets categorized in NetBackup, extends to the analytics platform, so you know where your data is, and you could take action on your data. The hard question of the day, instead of a softball I'll give you a hard one, you got to refresh the brand of Veritas has got a lot of pros and cons. The pros are, you know, well-known, a lot of customers, I got a customer question later, but the brand is important, because you have the new modern platform products, platform and products. Yeah, yeah. You got to get the name, Veritas has old meaning. You have a lot of older customers, you have legacy customers. How are you going to go out there and refresh? Is there any new plans there? We have a ton of plans. You know, we have the product, we have the customers. The product, the platform product is amazing. We are a quiet company, so we need to be noisier in the marketplace, and we need to insert ourselves into relevant conversations that are top of mind with CEOs and CIOs, whether it's ransomware. If you look at all of the ransomware attacks, It's a huge opportunity I read like two weeks ago in the State of Texas there were 10, 15 municipalities that were attacked. At the same time. At the same time! and we have a solution that can help customers recover from ransomware, so we have to insert ourselves in those dialogues because we have a very, very specific point of view that can help customers. Well but to John's point, right? Everybody that you compete with will say, we have a solution that, you know, helps solve ransomware. So, how do you separate from the pack? Like I said, everybody's trying to take pick you off. You know, we want a piece of that install base, right? 'Cause you got to keep the install base, and you got to keep growing, right? I'll lay down the gauntlet. I would love any competitor to showcase how they can support 500 workloads, a 150 storage targets, 60 cloud providers, at enterprise scale with a high degree of reliability. Our differentiator is we can cut across these very complex, very demanding IT environments, at scale. I want to get your thoughts on the customer journey question, because I think, you know, you mentioned the customer base, we've been following what you guys do. I mean I ran, I was in Bahrain for a regional Amazon event I was covering in the Middle East, and in the exhibit was this Veritas, and they recognized, hey, there's theCUBE guy. I was like, hey, thanks for watching. But seriously, you guys are everywhere. You got huge customers, but you probably have a lot of customers that are trying to go from here to there, VMware was talking almost specifically around, you know, you got the enterprise scale world, and they want that cloud Nirvana, and then there's that missing middle in between. So, you probably have a lot of transformational stories. What is the patterns of customer profile that you see? Some of them making the journey? Some of them are having a hard time? What's the state of the mind of the customer that you guys have? Well, we are definitely seeing a hybrid, multi-cloud world as you've heard here this week. 52% Of our customers are running in a hybrid cloud environment, and we have a core relationship with their legacy infrastructure, and our customers are asking our help to extend their data protection, and their NetBackup environment into the cloud, to backup the cloud, and across new modern workloads. So our customers are pulling us into their environments to do more. And that's cloud and hybrid basically. Cloud and hybrid. Public cloud and on premises. And our customers are also realizing that they're responsible for backing up their own data in the cloud. There's this misperception in the industry that if I move to a cloud provider, the cloud provider will manage my data, when in actuality you are still responsible for your data. You know, Amazon with security has a shared responsibility model. They say, okay, we protect the EC2, the infrastructure for S3, et cetera. You're responsible for pretty much everything else. And I think that you could draft off that message. Yeah, yeah! You guys too, a couple of years ago, had a great event call Veritas Vision where everybody came in, and then you changed that. Now you sort of go to where the customers are, and I'm wondering, how's that working out? It predated you. Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! So I won't ask you why that decision was made, but you know, how's it working out? I mean, a company like yours, there was like four, 5,000 people there, it was a really good event. So, a great question, and a highly relevant question, because we're just about to launch our series. So, you know, having run large, large, large user conferences, and you look at distribution of your customers and, you know, you typically find that 80% of your customers are coming from the US. You look at our customer base, global international customers. We have a high percentage of customers that are outside of the U.S. So, our strategy is let's take our user conference, let's take our message, let's take our value proposition to the customer. So, we are kicking off next month an entire series around the world, Germany, Paris, Rome, Seoul, Bali, Singapore, Melbourne, our vision series, where it's our anti-user conference. We're taking content directly to our customers. Is this regional or are those cities based? How is that segment? City based. So it's like an Amazon Summit kind of thing you go to? Yeah, yep. Okay so as a follow-up. So, as a seasoned pro in this space, why either, or, why not do both? I mean there's a budget obviously is one thing, it's expensive to run these events, I get it, but. I would prefer to put more money to where the customer is at. The field, kind of. Yeah, into the fields, you know, one of the life lessons of being a marketer is go to where the customer is. Don't try to get the customer to come to you. Well, your head of sales will love that message, you're going well. (Todd laughs) So our strategy is to go where the customer is. Yeah, and that does help sales actually. So, while you're on that point, you're a very progressive marketer, for the folks that don't know you, I'll share with them that, you know, you like to try things, and you love start-ups, and you love to promote new things. The marketing stack, I've said on theCUBE, and we'd love to have you challenge us if you want, love to debate it, I said, the MarTech Stack just didn't pan out. I mean, it worked? No, no, it didn't, no! Did it work? Is it evolving? Is it siloed? Is the cloud changing the MarTech Stack? So again, pretty aggressive statement, but my point is, email marketing was great for that generation, still is. There's new organic flows, maybe I'm biased, but I'd love to get your thoughts. How is the marketing tech world evolving with cloud computing? So, I'm going to say something provocative. >> John: Okay, all right, here we go. I think the CRM industry has gotten B2B marketing wrong. What I mean by that is you look at most CRM capabilities in B2B and they're focused on an individual. They're focused on a lead, they're focused on nurturing an individual, but if you look at our customers and enterprise, individuals don't buy, buying groups, committees, and accounts buy. So where we're focused is looking at accounts, and understanding account company based behavior that shows buying intent and triggers, which then initiate our marketing. So it's not built around a lead, it's built around-- >> John: So account based marketing? Account based marketing, but account based insight and intelligence around, is there a project or buying opportunity? And you know our good friends at Manigo, that's what they do, which is AI driven, trigger-based marketing. And that's where I think the industry is going. And what's your thoughts on organic marketing, because one of the things that's hot, is we live this world with theCUBE, and we've been kind of pioneering this model where co-creating content together and pushing it out into these digital streams is an organic process. It's technically earned media and PR parlance, but we're seeing the evolution of the CMO-like action around storytelling, right? And so, like community based storytelling, it's an organic function, it's hard to control. You can't just buy it, it's got to be kind of nurtured or enabled. That's right. What's your view on that? Because this is an emerging trend we're seeing, VM were just reorganizing a whole storytelling integrated group of PR pros, that are acting like the marketing, in their marketing. Well you know, one of the most active, customer segments we have is our VOX Community, and if you think to your point about co-creation of content in collaboration, our VOX Community collaborates on solving problems that customers have, they call that-- >> John: Can you take a minute to explain, what is VOX Community to us? VOX is a community of our technical users, where they help each other share best practices and solve problems. >> Dave: A lot of how-to? A lot of how-to-- Not Vox Media. Not Vox Media, correct. Just need to make sure to get that out there. Forums, there's videos. Is this your community, or is it third-party? Veritas. Okay, Veritas. It's a Veritas community, yeah. And then to your other point, John, the marketing world has changed. We've quickly moved into a world where we now have an anonymous relationship with our customer, with email, with direct mail. Yeah, we're always driving to registration to capture a name, that world is long gone. A Facebook show that's been weaponized, so you know. Yeah, that's right. It's the data business, at the end of the day. The user experience is horrible, right? Everybody hates that, and so yeah, there are other ways now you can use data, you can infer. Yeah, that's right, exactly. You can read the tea leaves, and probably make a pretty high prediction, or highly accurate prediction. What is the most under reported trend that you think marketers should look at in terms of capabilities that are working out in the field for you? I would say the ability to leverage predicative analytics, call it AI or machine learning, understand what's happening at an account, and whether there's a buying trigger. I think accessing that information, learning from that information in terms of how should you initiate a selling motion, and then enabling the sales force with that intelligence, I think is a wide open territory. All right, we got a-- So a couple of other things. If I can? Yeah! Just to get it in. So you guys made a big platform enhancements a couple of years ago, and then a big eight dot, whatever it was, eight dot something, two, three, five. I think it was 8.2. Customer momentum, can you update us on that? Maybe even customer examples, and then I've got a partner question for you. Yeah, so I talked about the value of the platform, and we'll take Renault as an example. So Renault, a NetBackup customer, Renault wanted to make their virtualized SAP environment highly available, and they looked at a variety of different solutions, and they looked at some solutions that were homegrown and others, and they realized just extending the Veritas platform was faster time to market, 60% cost savings. So, there's a perfect example of a customer leveraging our platform play. And a couple partner questions. So, you know, we're here at VMworld, so your VMware partnership obviously pretty important, and then we're at Pure Accelerate next month, you guys are there, you got a big presence there, I know you got a tight partnership with them. That's right. Give us the partner update. Partner update, so we have very solid relationships with Amazon, Microsoft, VMware, Google, Nutanix, Pure, and that's where we're really doubling down in terms of technology integration, joint go-to-market. >> Dave: Great. And the community site is vox.veritas.com, I just was checking it out. Thank you for the plug. There's a church one, there's a religious one, not to be confused with Vox Media, so just want to make sure everyone got that URL. We think community is super important. Thanks for coming on theCUBE Excellent! and sharing your insights. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you. Todd Forsythe, CMO of Veritas. More live coverage of VMworld after this short break. (upbeat dance music)

>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, good afternoon. And welcome back to San Francisco. Where Mosconi north along with David Dante, John Wall's You're watching our coverage here. Live on the Cuba Veum world. 2019 days. I've been over on the other set. I know you've been busy on this side as well. Show going. All right for you >> so far. Yeah, A lot of action going on over here. We had a pact Hellsing on this morning, Michael Dell, with this VM wear hat, we get Sanjay Putin downtown later. >> Yeah, yeah. Good light up. And that lineup continues. Great. Use the CEO Veritas. >> Great to be here. Very John, >> actually, just outside the Veritas Meadow here. Sponsored the this area. This is the meadow set. That >> nice to be here? Yeah, I didn't know >> that. All right, just first off, just give me your your idea of the vibe here. What you are. You're feeling >> what? I think there's a tremendous amount of energy. It's been a lot of fun to be here Obviously VM was talking about this hybrid multi cloud world, and Veritas is 100% supportive of that vision. We work with all the major cloud service providers, you know, eight of us. Google. Microsoft is or we share thousands of customers with the M, where some of the biggest customers, the most complicated customers in the world, where we provide availability and protection and insights for those customers has always >> been the ethos of veritas. When you go back to the early days of Veritas, essentially, it was the storage management, you know, the no hardware agenda, the sort of independent storage company, but pure software. >> That sounds. You >> know, years ago there was no cloud, but there were different platforms, and so that that that that culture has really migrated now into this multi cloud work world. Your thoughts on that >> absolutely look, you know, I'll give an example of a customer that we worked with closely with VM wear on, and that is Renault. America's Renault is Ah, big joint venture. They've got a huge ASAP installation 8000 users 40 terabytes, Big Net backup customer. They also use their products in for a scale and V. R P for availability and D r. And they work with us because we are hardware agnostic. They looked at us against the other competitors, and we're hardware agnostic. And because of that where we came in its 60% lower TCO than those other providers. So we that hardware agnostic approach works really well. You were >> Just touch it on this great little bit when you said, You know whether Tiger, whether it's multi, whether it's private, whatever it is, you know we're here to provide solutions. The fact that this stuff is hard to figure out and really kind of boggle the mind a bit, it's very complex. Um, how much of an inhibitor is that? In terms of what you're hearing from clients and in terms of their progress and and their decision making >> well, let me explain where we sit. And we are the leader in enterprise data protection, availability and insights. We work with the largest, most complex, most high route, highly regulated and most demanding customers on the planet. 99 of the Fortune 100 are customers of Veritas. 10 of the top 10 tell coast 10 of the top 10 healthcare companies and 10 of the top 10 financial institutions. I spend about 50% of my time talking to these customers, so we learn a lot. And here the four big challenges they're facing first is the explosion of data. Data is just growing so fast, Gardner estimates will be 175 Zita bytes of data in 2025. If you cram that in, iPhones will take 2.6 trillion iPhones and go to the sun and back, right? It's an enormous amount of data. Second, they're worried about Ransomware. It's not a question off if you'll be attacked. It's when you'll be attacked. Look at what's happening in Texas right now with the 22 municipalities dealing with that. What you want in that case is a resilient infrastructure. You wanna be terrible to restore from a really good backup copy of data. Third, they want the hybrid multi cloud world, just like Pak Gil Singer has been talking about. That's what customers want, but they want to be able to protect their data wherever it is, make it highly available and get insights in the data wherever it's located. And then finally, they're dealing with this massive growth in government regulations around the world because of this concern about privacy. I was in Australia a few weeks ago and one of our customers she was telling me that she deals with 27 different regulatory environments. Another customer was saying the California Privacy Act will be the death of him. And he's based in St Louis, right? So our strategy is focused on taking away the complexity and helping the largest companies in the world deal with these challenges. And that's why we introduce the enterprise. Data Service is platform, and that's why we're here. VM world Talking >> about Greg. Let's unpack some of those, Asai said. Veritas kind of created a market way back when and now you see come full circle, you got multi cloud. You have a lot of new entrance talking about data management. That's it's always been your play, but you came to the king of the Hell's. Everybody wants a piece of your hide, so that's kind of interesting, But but data growth. So let's let's start there. So it used to be data was, ah, liability. Now it's becoming an asset. So what? What your customers saying about sort of data is something that needs to be managed, needs to be done cost effectively and efficiently versus getting more value on data. And what's Veritas is sort of perspective. >> They're really trying to get insights in their data. Okay. And, uh, that's why we acquired a company called Apt Are. So when I This is my second time of Veritas. I was here from 2003 to 2010 rejoined the company of 2018. I talked to a lot of customers. I've found that their infrastructure was so complex that storage infrastructure so complex the companies were having a hard time figuring out anything about their data. So they're having the hardest time just answering some fundamental questions that boards were asking. Boards are saying because of the ransomware threat. Is all our data protected? Is it backed up? Are all our applications backed up and protected and customers could not answer that question. On the other hand, they also were backing up some data 678 times wasting storage. What apt are does, and it's really amazing. I recommend seeing a demo of that. If you get a chance, it pulls information from Santa raise network file systems, virtual machines, uh, san networking and all data protection applications to get a complete picture of what's happening with your data. And that is one example off what customers really want. >> Okay, so then that kind of leads to the second point, which is ransomware now. Part of part of that is analytics and understanding what's going on in the system as well. So but it's a relatively new concept, right? And ransom. Where is the last couple of years? We've really started to see it escalate. How does Veritas help address that problem? And does apt our play a role there? >> Well, Veritas, it just helps it. Cos address that problem because veritas helps create a resilient infrastructure. Okay, the bad guys are going to get in spear. Phishing works. You know, you you are going to find some employees were gonna click on a link, and the malware is going to get in so all you can do to protect you ultimately have tohave a good backup copies so you can restore at scale and quickly. And so there's been a lot of focus from these large enterprises on restoring at scale very quickly after ransom or attack, it's you're not beholden. You can't be extorted by the ransom or >> the third piece was hybrid. And of course, that leads to a kind of hybrid multi cloud. Let's let's put that category out there now. I've been kind of skeptical on hybrid multi cloud from an application perspective in other words, the vision that you can run any app anywhere in the world without having a retest Rica pile. I've been skeptical that, but the one area that I'm not skeptical and the courage with is data protection because I think actually, you can have a consistent data protection model across your on Prem different on prams, different clouds, because you know you're partnering with all the different cloud cos you obviously have expertise in on premise. So so talk about your approach, their philosophy and maybe any offering. >> Well, this is really what sets us apart. We have been around for 25 years, 2000 patents. We protect everything. 500 different sources of data 150 different targets, 60 different cloud service providers, you know, we compete with two categories of players. We compete with the newcomers, and they only they will only protect your most current technology. They don't go back. We've been around for 25 years. We protect everything, right? We also can't compete with the conglomerates, Okay? In their case, they're not focused. They're trying to do everything. All we do is availability, protection and insights. And that's why we've been in Gardner M Q 13 times and where the market share leader also absolutely >> touch me. Someone Dave was saying about the application side of this. I mean, just your thoughts about, you know, the kinds of concerns the day raises. I mean, it is not alone in that respect. I mean, there are general concerns here, right about whether that that'll fly. What do you think? In terms, >> I think the vision is spot on and like, oh, visions, it takes a while to get to. But I think what VM wears done recently in the acquisition, there've been basically trying to make the control plane for compute okay, and their acquisition of carbon, black and pivotal add to that control plane we're gonna be We are the control plane for data protection. I mean, that's that's the way our customers rely on, >> but that makes sense to me. So I think I feel like the multi cloud vision is very aspirational today, and I think it's gonna be really hard to get there without homogeneous infrastructure. And that's why you see things like Outpost to see the Oracle has clouded customer. You've got Azure Stack. So and I think it's gonna be a multi vendor world. However I do think is it relates the data protection you can set a standard and safe. We were going to standardize on Veritas. So one of us So I think that it's it's achievable. So that was my point there. The last one was was regulations. Do you think GDP are will be a sort of a framework globally body of customers seeing there? >> Well, they're dealing with more than GDP are like I talked about that one customer, 27 different regulatory environments and the challenge there is. How do you deal with that when you don't know what you have in terms of data, the 50% of data is what we call dark data. You don't know anything about right, so you need help classifying it, understanding and getting insight into that data, and that's what we can help >> our customers. But howdy, howdy, dildo. In that environment, I mean, I mean, a day raises the point. This is obvious. A swell that mean you cite California right, which is somewhat infamous for its own regulatory mindset. I mean, how do you exist? What? The United States has privacy concerns and Congress can address it, and various federal agencies could do the same Europe. Obviously we talked about now Australia. Now here. Now there you get this Balkan I system that has no consistency, no framework. And so how do you operate on a global scale? >> A. Mentally. It relies on classifying that data right. Understanding what's where and what do you have is a P I. I personally identifiable information. Is it information that's intellectual property? What kind of data you have once you have that insight, which is what we provide, you can layer on top of the regulatory Is that compliance? >> Star I P. Is that Veritas i p. A blender? >> It's a blend of avatar and veritas I p. We have a product called Info Studio that helps toe provide that now Remember one of the things that are net backup product has is a catalogue of data. So we know where the data is primary to secondary storage, and we have all the versions of that data. And then we can run analytics against the secondary storage and not hit the primary systems. Right? So we're out of band to the primary systems, and that turns out to be very valuable in the state's a >> question. The catalog. I can't do this without a catalogue in the enough to geek out here a little bit, but but you've got a little bit when you bring in multi clouds. Other clouds. How do you incorporate you know that knowledge into your catalog? >> Yeah. Art, art, technology work Idol of works across multiple clouds. So we work with 60 different Cloud service providers. There's three big ones represented here today. Microsoft, AWS and Google. We work very closely with all three, and >> that's because you do the engineering at the A P. I level. Our engineering teams work very, very closely together. Okay, um, so let's talk about competition a little bit. The markets heated up. It's great. It's good to see all this VC money floating in. Everybody I said wants a piece of your hide. Why Veritas? >> Well, I explained that, you know, we are the leader in enterprise, data protection, availability and insights. There are some newcomers. They just will support you on your current technology. They don't support the infrastructure you've had for many years. If your large complicated enterprise you have layers of technology, we support all that with VIN amount for 25 years against, the big conglomerates were completely focused. And that's why we're the leader, according to Gartner, in the Leader's Quadrant 13 years >> now. And just as we close up you talked about, you brought up the case in Texas, about 22 municipalities. You do a lot of public sector work states, federal government ever. It's just what is the difference of different animal between public and private and and what you need to do in terms of providing that >> we're struggling with the same challenge. In fact, we work with some of the largest government agencies in the world, and they're struggling with exactly the same challenge. They also want leverage the public cloud. They're worried about ransom where you know they're dealing with data growth. All of these are challenges to them. And that's the, uh So these are common challenges we're addressing. Our strategy is to help our customers with these challenges so they can focus on the value of data >> 18 months in. You seem pumped up. Does having a great time team fired up >> way. Get that right. Great. But you're okay with big geeking out to write a very good thanks for the time You've run out of time. 40 Niners next time. All right. Greg Hughes joining us from Veritas. Back with more Veum, World 2019 right here on the Cube. >> Thank you.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >> Hi, I'm Peter. Boris, And welcome to another cube conversation from our wonderful studios and beautiful Paolo Alto, California. One of the biggest challenge that every enterprises faces how to attend to the volumes of data that are being generated by applications. But more importantly, that the business is now requiring because they want to find new derivative sources of value in their digital business. Transformations is gonna require a significant retooling and rethinking of how we used eight is an asset. And the directions that infrastructure, data management and business are gonna move together over the course of next few years. Now, have that conversation. Got a couple of great guests here. Josie Swoop is a VP of marketing veritas. Welcome to Cuba or back to the Cube. Yeah, thanks. Peter and Rick Clark is a CEO of opt are welcome. Thank you for the first time. >> Great to be here, >> So let me start here. Joey, why don't we start with you? Give us a quick update on Veritas and where your customers are indicating the direction needs to go. >> We've just had, ah, record breaking financial year for us, which ended in end of March. So since divestiture from semantic, as you know better, Toss has been through a transformation and then on a path to growth. So our core businesses are humming with just like I said, the second half of the year specifically was great for us. What we're hearing from customers, Peter, is that they want to elevate their their business problems away from infrastructure to business outcomes. That what they ask veritas to do is, can you abstract away some of those infrastructure plumbing problems, storage, security, data protection and focus on what the applications can give us. That's number one. Number two is Can we standardize? I mean, the example of Southwest comes to mind, right? They have the same plane so they can reroute those planes anytime they have the same pilots flying those planes so they can to standardize. So they collapsed better. And then, lastly, to your point value of data over volume. Everybody talks about the volume. What about the value of data? What is veritas do for for me? Mr. You know God's a customer in our tax extract value of that data, which is growing day by day. >> Well, one of the most interesting things about this challenge of businesses faces they try to attend to these things is that data is often characterizes the new oil. And we we push back against that Because >> data is a new kind of asset, it's an asset that's easily copied. It's an asset that's easily shared. You can easily integrate it. You can apply it to multiple uses with zero loss of fidelity and what it does currently. And so the whole notion of creating new options in the value of data's intrinsic to the questions of digital business. So that suggests that we need to start thinking Maur about data protection, not just from the standpoint of protecting data once it's been created and is sitting there so we can recover it. But new types of utilization, new ways of thinking about data data as it's going to be used, understanding more about dating, protecting that Rick, would you kind of Does that resonate? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the things that we've sort of seed in the marketplace is certainly over the last 10 years, the Data Sena has become so complex. This is massive fragmentation of data across highly virtualized infrastructures. And then, when public clouds came along, customers didn't really know what workloads they should move up into those clouds. And so what we saw is a huge problem. Is areas of cost and efficiencies, massive problems of risk and then obviously the amount of money that cos of spending on compliance. And so what we were really focusing on is the gaps. What do you not know about? And so we would really >> about your data >> about your data. Exactly. So we really measure the hot beat off the data protection environment, and from that we could actually see where are you? Risk where your exposure, where you're spending too much money, >> Where's your opportunities? Seize your opportunities. So we've got a notion of the the solution that folks are looking for, something that provides greater visibility into their end and data from a risk exposure opportunity. New sources of utilization standpoint talk a bit about how >> at four >> rounds out the veritas portfolio as it pertains of these things that you're seeing customers asked for taking data closer to outcomes and away from the device orientation? >> Absolutely. So Vatos has always been known to be a leader and data protection. We've done that for over 20 years. We also were the first pioneers in software defined storage. And we're number one in market share, according to I. D. C and Gardner as well. Ah, but again to my earlier point, customers have been asking. So what? We've done the plumbing really well and you've scaled. How do you take this to the next level? Extract value from all that data you're sitting on top of that you're protecting. And that's where apt are comes into the picture. We've built some tools natively within veritas of the last three or four years where we try to go and classify the data on in jest, identify things like P I information sensitive data, rock data, redundant, obsolete, trivial data that we can delete. There was a customer who recently deleted 30,000,000 files, just press the delete button and this isn't a highly regulated environment, >> but they were still pretty darn eggs. >> They definitely where but we were able to give them that visualization and information that they required. Now the question those customers are asking us or we're asking us. Before avatar came into the picture was at the infrastructure level. How do I know how much I'm spending on my data protection environments? Do I know where the growth ISS is it all in the traditional workloads of oracle ASAP, Or is it in virtual or is it in the cloud? Right. Am I putting too much data on tape? Is it costing me enough? Can extract the value from that data. So they were asking us infrastructure visualization and i D analytics. Questions which only apt are could answer. And we have some joint customers they were actually using. Apt are already not just with to monitor the vatos ecosystem, but even some of our competitors and the broader i t ecosystem on a single planet class. And that's where I think after really shines is is the agnostic approach they take beyond just veritas are beyond just another storage vendor. >> Well, so way certainly subscribed to this notion that data protection is going to It's gonna be extended, but it's gonna become a strategic digital business capability that does have to be re funk around the concept of data value and sounds like that's the direction you're taking, and you guys have clearly seen that as well. But obviously some of your customers have seen it. So talk to us a little bit about how customers helped you two guys together. >> Yeah, that's a great question. Was interesting. Actually. We had some of the largest companies in the globe actually using ourself with many of the fortune Tien using up self with J. P. Morgan Chase quote calm Western digital. And they came to us with these very precise problems around, you know, howto optimize my risk within the environment, had a streamline, obviously the costs and compliance. And we found that they were very common questions. And so we actually created this agnostic intelligence built into the software a rules engine that would have to correlate data from all of these disparate data sources. Whether Tom primer on the cloud tying that together would provide impactful insights to our customers that could sold real world problems. And we'll do it with kind of what we call the easy button. One of the big problems with a lot of software products out there today. Is there a point solutions to manage pots of the infrastructure companies wanted a single pane of glass where I could see everything across all of my storage. All of my data protection on prim and cloud. And that's really what we bring to the table, that single paying the class. And we do it very simply at scale for the largest customers. And that's in many ways was the synergy, obviously, with a partnership with Veritas. >> So give us some sense of how how customers will see the benefits of this from a rollout standpoint over the next 6 to 18. >> Right? So Step One in this journey for us is to ensure there are customers. Understand that we're going to continue to have that open an agnostic approach Apt are suddenly is not gonna become proprietary batter toss product. It's going to continue on its on its mission to be agnostic across various storage data protection and cloud environments. That's number one. Number two is we're gonna bring the the artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities that we have in house with Veritas combined that with some of the things that Rick just docked, abide with the capabilities adapt our has combine, it's our customers can gain. I know add value. The one plus one equals three approach there as well. So those air, like the two key pillars for us going forward and eventually will extend apt are to an end to in Data Analytics platform not just I d analytics, where we're looking at infrastructure, but an end to end data. Plus I t analytics platform that spans Veritas is will Is the broader a IittIe ecosystem? >> Well, so it's good to hear that you're gonna let apt are continue to focus on data value as opposed to veritas value. Right talk. Talk to me a little bit. About what Does that analytics piece really mean? Howard Customers going to use it? How are they using it today? How are they gonna >> let me carry that? Said is roughly 30,000 unique metrics that we actually gather across the whole I t infrastructure and we'll look at a classic use cases. One of exposure. What? A lot of companies been enormous amount of money on the data protection infrastructure. The using disparity, tools and technologies they don't always go with. One platform like net backup is an example, right? And so with that, come challenges because there's gonna be gaps they might be backing up a Windows server where they're the backup policy says they're just backing up. The C drive will interrogate VM, where all the hyper visor will look at the network and see that there's a D Dr attached to that volume as well. And there's no backup data protection policy. So enormous amount of exposure if they tried to do a restore, obviously, from the d Dr where there's no protection, right from a cost perspective, there's an enormous amount of white space problem in the storage industry. More and more companies are moving from spinning distal flash arrays. A lot of companies is struggling with How do I protect those old flash A raise the using snapshots that using cloud they're tearing to the cloud the using different backup products. Obviously, we'd prefer that they used their backup, but with our software, we can provide that that inside across the entire data protection framework and storage and show you where is your risk? Where is your inefficiency, where you double protecting things into spending too much, much money? This whole notion of data protection is transaction. A lot of people do what's called distant, distant eight still being voted off site. How do you know that all those transactions are successful? How do you know you can restore based on those s L A's and tying that into you? See, M d B. That's what appetite does. >> So I'ma throw a little bit of a curveball here. So having worked within 90 worked with N i t organizations, it can be I ke historically can has been rolled to the compartmentalizing segment you administrated for servers in Australia for storage of people who are administrating applications and and subsystems. And the cloud is munge ing a fair amount of that together. But one of the places that has always required coordination, collaboration and even more important practice has been in the area of restore firms were shops that did not practice how they would restore, you know, hopefully they never had a problem. But if they did have a problem, if they hadn't practiced that process, they would likely we're not gonna be successful in bringing the business up. Gets even more important digital business. Can you give us a little bit of visibility into how this combination taking the metadata, the metrics of visibility. Taking the high quality service is bringing them together is going to streamline, restore within their prices. >> So first, let me address the first point you made, which is what I call the rise of the versatile is too right. So there are no more specialists in certain jobs. The versatile listen, the cloud or in virtual tend to do three or four jobs when there's back up our story virtualization itself on DDE. What the's Verceles want is to explain an easy barton to restore their VM environment or their big data. And my mother there Hadoop environment. They're not really worried. As a central I t. Team that Hey, what am I going to do with the entire data estate? How did I restore that? So that's the first step. Second step, as the world of I t gets more more complicated on the rise of the worst list continues to happen. Thes folks want to be able to have a resiliency plan. They want to be able to rehearse these restores right, and if they don't have a resiliency plan built in if the data protection is so siloed and does not help them build a resiliency plan. And to end that restore is not gonna be successful. Likely? Right. And that's where Veritas and companies like Veritas come in to help them build those resiliency plans and to end. >> But let me take you back to so the financial industry, for example, there are rules about how fast you you have to be able to restore. I gotta believe that visibility into data that is a value level can help set priorities. Because sometimes you want to bring up this application of this class of applications of this class of users of functions before you bring up those so does does apt are apt are going to provide even greater clarity in the crucial restore >> at 70. One of the biggest challenges for >> a lot of companies with restores is actually finding the data. We had a classic use case with a large Fortune 10 company where they had a bunch of service that were being backed up. There were bolted off the tape, and then it was obviously a different backup product they were using. The actually lost the catalog. The data was still there on tape. They had millions of tapes in the vaults, and they used apt title, identify the barcodes and recover that data literally within a matter of hours. And so not only can we find you your freshest copy the most recent copy, if that's what you want, but we can find where is your data? Because in a lot of cases there's multiple replications, multiple copies of the data across all sorts of assets within your >> infrastructure. Interesting. So last thoughts. When we have you back in the Cube in a year, Where you guys going? Big? >> Hey, listen, the two things that I talked about we're going to continue to expand the support of the ecosystem. The world of I t. Whether it's on Prem virtual or in the cloud with Apt are we? We're going to continue to invest in the artificial Intelligence and ML capabilities are not just apt are but all of that tosses ecosystem and you'll see amore integrated approach on the platform based approach on standardization When we come here >> next, guys, thank you so much. Great conversation. Thanks for being here in the Cube to talk about this important relation between data tooling and sources of business value. Rick Clark is the vice president of the outdoor business unit. Used to be the CEO of actor, but now the vice president. The outdoor business unit Veritas. Josie Stroop is vice president of marketing of Veritas. Once again, guys, thanks very much for being here. Thank you so much for having us. And once again, I'm Peter Burgers. You've been listening to another cube conversation until next time.

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of AWS reinvent here at the Venetian in Las Vegas I'm your host Rebecca night along with my co-host Dave Volante Rebecca we work together this week and I'm excited for our next guest he is an esteemed cube alum Harish Venkat vice president global sales enablement and marketing at Veritas technologies welcome back to the Q thank you very much thank you see you Gary good to see you David so you've been to this is not your first rodeo you know many AWS reinvents what are you hearing what what are you hearing on the ground from your customers what trends are you seeing what most excites you yeah first of all that's great to be part of reinvent you know love the buzz here it's very electrifying and we're very happy about our partnership with AWS and we're very happy about the sponsorship for reinvent as well if there are any skeptics out there who's still thinking cloud is still a fashion statement they really need to reassess their statement because proud is in full effect for both computer and storage the other trend that I'm seeing is globalization is in full effect ideas are flowing swiftly and freely through the borders and then when you think about technology technology is very exciting the global GDP is what about 79 trillion IT spend about four trillion but it's interesting to see the four trillion sort of fueling the growth for the 79 trillion I also think AI machine learning deep learning all of this is going to reshape not only the software industry but I think it's going to reshape the way we live our lives and the last thing I'll say is data hands down as the new currency for enterprise right exactly we keep hearing this data is the new oil data is the it is the currency it's even more valuable I got our take on this okay so I can take a quarter oil and/or a gallon oil I can put it in my house or I can put it in my car I can't do both with that same resource data it doesn't follow the laws of scarcity I can use that same data from multiple use cases so by premises it's more valuable than oil what do you think I think the versatility of data is not the same as oil oil has very limited purpose and I think it's important and we are all dependent on it but data is so meaningful the amount of insights you can get it provides you a competitive edge in the industry it is unbeatable so yeah oil not say mono reefs I've had the pleasure of doing a couple of Veritas solution days yes I did Veritas vision last year you guys have broken that up into multiple cities this year I did New York and Chicago just at ease with the last 30 to 45 days yeah had some great conversations with customers some Veritas execs the conversation was obviously heavy kool-aid injection of Veritas technology your roadmap your vision really really detailed stuff obviously a cloud was a piece of that the conversations here I'm sure a much more cloud oriented now can you talk about the discussions that you're having the focus that you have on cloud generally in AWS specifically yeah sure look I mean data is growing year over year and and customers are still trying to figure out how to manage the data how am I going to work out the economics of this by leveraging cloud and this is not an easy equation to solve by no means and this is where Veritas and cloud service providers like AWS are really taking the market leadership role and then figuring out how do we leverage the entire data landscape if you will so before you even think of cloud the first thing you want to know is where does my data reside and what type of data do I have so Veritas is able to provide that visibility of data classification of data we provide immense amount of deduplication ratio which helps with the economics of this ratio this equation so I think we provide an end to solution from visibility classification deduplication even helping new application and data to the cloud and the partnership with AWS is really enabling customers to solve that conundrum that you're talking so I want to double click on this you know so as a as a as a person who understands backup and recovery deeply as a working for a company that's that's their business and of course you're extending beyond backup and I understand that but you know snapshots replication that's not backup in recovery so when I see something like outpost outpost is this on Prem infrastructure appliance that AWS is bringing as part of its hybrid strategy I want to know how is that gonna be protected now of course they'll talk about the way in which they protect it but a company like yours has a different philosophy your recovery is everything the whole data management approach how do you guys think about data management and data protection you know beyond snapshots or beyond just replication can you explain that yeah so I think the best way to explain that would be to talk about a customer use case great and while several customers come to mind I want to talk about see IMC I think it's a perfect embodiment of all the business use cases that we've been discussing so far ok see IMC is China International Marine container and they've been in business since 1980 you know employ about 51,000 based out of Shenzhen in in in China and they started their digital transformation in 2017 and what they're trying to do is really achieve three things one move all of their business application to the cloud starting with their strategic ERP in this case it was s AP and s AP Hana and the other thing is because they've been around since 1980s a lot of their processes are outdated it's very manual and they had a lot of dependency on tape as part of their backup and recovery so they want to modernize but they want to modernize that piece of it and then the last thing is they wanted a state-of-the-art disaster recovery which is also required by the local compliance laws in China where it doesn't matter where your business application is running they needed a copy of data on Prem so they evaluated all the different vendors market and clearly they chose Veritas as well as AWS to solve that business problem why why did they choose you guys yeah so you know obviously Veritas is number one in data protection 15 years in a row we got more than 50 thousand customers 96 percent of Fortune 100 trust their data with us but more importantly I think it's the partnership with AWS that really helped solve this problem and let me tell you how they did it I think that's important so the first thing they did is they launched an instance of net backup in AWS you know gone are the days where you're completely dependent on purpose-built appliance people are switching over to virtual appliance and they were able to do that by the partnership with Veritas and AWS so an instance in AWS leveraging s3 for the immediate server two days after the data they moved on s3 data over to s3 ia and eventually to glacier you know obviously Andy Jessee has been talking quite a bit in terms of increased throughput from s3 to glacier which is going to help this cause and then when you when you think about how customers are dealing with the transition to the cloud not everyone's ever going to move there all of their application to the cloud it's going to be a journey with time but what that creates in a customer environment is you got critical data in the cloud critical data on prem and they're looking at one data protection solution for both on prem and cloud and this is where Veritas net back really comes and that backup really comes in well I want to ask a little bit about that journey because as you said they don't have everything in the cloud so how has Veritas and any available AWS this sort of three-way partnership how are you how does that work I mean our user hand-holding them are you is it a co-creative process can you can you riff on that a little bit yeah sure so you know just like any of their lines we start off with the technical alliance we want to make sure that whatever use case that we're going to the market and all of those use cases are really coming from customers we understand customer challenges we work with different companies and cloud service providers in this case AWS to make sure that the solution that we take to the market is complete there's absolutely no hiccups we got professional services to help them to mitigate the risk factors and to considerations that most customers are thinking about one is costs another one is performance and thanks to net backup a IR or auto image replicator you know we are able to take a 2/3 of the network bandwidth out so you can achieve all of that performance with one third the network we got incredible deduplication ratio the storage cost as a result as 50 times less than what you would get and so back to the to consideration factor performance and cost we're able to do that in collaboration with AWS so I wonder we could talk about multi cloud or poly cloud as we sometimes call it so you can infer from listening to AWS that it really is better off having a one cloud strategy but as we know oh you say you talk to customers there's no one customer cloud strategy the customers are made up of there's like the government there's multiple constituencies in the company and shadow IT and so there's multi clouds you don't care whether it's one cloud a moment about you're there to protect it but I'm interested in what years you're seeing so what are you seeing and how are you because we we know it's not more than it's more than just one it's not just on Prem in one cloud how are you approaching that problem talk about customers and what their kind of roadmap looks like in their strategic plans and where you fit yeah so back to your point I don't think we'll ever see just one cloud the dependency on just one cloud is not happening we're seeing multiple clouds we're seeing hybrid clouds obviously you know Azure stack is coming up with their own version and so is AWS and in a customer's environment you are seeing that now there's also talks about are we going to see cloud to cloud movement cloud to cloud disaster recovery I am not seeing that at all I think the economics of cloud to cloud move over our failover is just too expensive so I think we're still seeing physical to cloud cloud back to physical and then one physical to another cloud I don't see a whole lot of cloud movement so where Veritas really comes in as our ability to provide that disaster recovery both from physical to physical protect your data in the same assured way on Prem as well as the cloud allowing you to leverage the cloud as a disaster recovery mechanism in fact I was having breakfast with Bell media this morning and they have two sides in Canada that they're using disaster recovery and they're wanting to leverage cloud and he's super excited about net backup eight one two cloud catalyst you know ability to leverage cloud as the disaster recovery and with our VRP was just Veritas resiliency platform to achieve that so a culmination of all of that hopefully answers their question absolutely and I think that's right on you had referenced earlier in your commentary Harish that you see some major changes coming for the software industry and we were we were talking to Jerry Chen the other day from Greylock in a really sharp former VMware now he's you know VC so he sees a lot of stuff and he put forth the premise that everything's changing in software development as a software company I wonder if you could you could comment that Amazon is essentially giving all these this tooling to create new software apps but as a software player how do you guys look at that how are you modernizing you know your platform and what do you see is the outcome yeah so you know it's interesting you talked about VSD in New York obviously and I spoke about it and when I talked about two things over there which was really ease of use and simplicity and and that's really where the customers are gravitating we have to make sure that any platform in the software industry has the 3.click to value mantra built in you can't be having the green screens anymore so Veritas has taken the same approach we're really looking at ease of use and simplicity and three clicks to value so that's a big trend you know I talked about AI and machine learning and deep learning you know gone are the days where everyone is reacting to something now it's all predictive analytics how do I garner more information so we're building AI and machine learning into our platform where if there's an outage we're going to tell you beforehand some of the reasons before or beforehand into some of the reasons behind it and that way you can address it and not be a subject to a reactive catastrophe so I think those are two big things that I'm seeing in the software-defined storage and the second thing is just an overall ecosystem right so it's not just about standalone value but how do you collaborate with the rest of the software providers to build a bigger and better solutions as an example our relationship with AWS is speaking very highly of that we're solving bigger and better problems as a result of this we just announced our alliance with pure storage with their data hub architecture we're able to do you know data protection with IOT s which is again another trend in the marketplace where we can share protect and collaborate with pure data as well well let's talk with the edge in terms of data protection for the edge how'd how does the edge IOT how does that affect customers data protection strategies and what's Veritas is angle there yeah so you know I mentioned this in in Microsoft ignite because Satya had mentioned this in his keynote saying that the edge computing there's a lot of proliferation around that and it's not just a compute fact because a lot of data has been generated in that too so how do you make sense of all of that data how do you which ones do you protect which ones do discard so Veritas has that solution which allows you to sift through all of that data figure out which one's important classify that and then help you provide data protection for the edge computing I'm thinking about yesterday's keynote with Andy Jesse a dizzying number of announcements of new products and services new innovations and it's and this is really de rigueur at an AWS reinvent is this is this pace sustainable I mean this this constant innovation I mean is that sustainable what are you you know it's interesting you asked me that question because it's the same concept of is Moore's lot going to be sustainable right so far we're seeing that it is and as a result you're seeing all these madness around innovation you know driverless cars and you know journey to the another planet in a I and and ml and full effect and all of this is going to reshape our future so far I'm not seeing any signs of slowing down as long as Moore's law is going to keep up with its multiplier effect I think we'll see better better lifestyle and more and more innovation just the amount of patents that we're seeing with new startups it's just off the charts so I'm a big proponent of innovation and I think this will this will continue going on well I think if I could comment I think Moore's Law in many ways was was one-dimensional I mean you had the doubling of you know performance every 18 months whatever it is now you have this multi-dimensional innovation combination Moore's Law fine but you've got data you've got machine intelligence applied to that data and you've got the cloud at scale so this you have this combinatorial effect that has multiplicative effects on innovation so that our argument is the curve is actually bending you know into a nonlinear and it's mind-boggling there's big pace of innovation you certainly see that here from from Amazon it seems to be accelerating and it's it's underscored by the number of announcements that this company is making others trying to keep pace them forcing their customers to keep pace it's him it actually feels like it's it's speeding up not decelerating without a doubt and I think it depends on the type of company you're talking about if you're a startup company you know and have any of the legacy things that you're talking about you're spending all of your IT spent on innovation you look at a classy IT spend equation 85% of it just to keep the lights on and less than 10% on innovation I think that is mind-boggling to me and that's why some of these new startups are constantly challenging you know fortune 500 companies whose lifespan used to be 65 years but now at 16 years and it's constantly getting down because of this effect as well and I think that's a great point if if you're stuck in that 85% technical debt world and you don't allocate enough for innovation yeah it's it's going to be problematic and so what we see is customers looking at it as a portfolio we got run the business we have grow the business we have transformed the business we're going to deliberately allocate cash to each of those and hopefully bet on the right things yeah not a doubt I mean look at the at the end of it as a result of all these different phenomenons that we're talking about it is good for consumers because they're looking at more and more options better technology and those sort of fierce competition is always good for everyone as consumers as well as enterprise great well Harish thank you so much for coming on the cables my pleasure I'm Rebekah night for DES Volante we will have more of the cubes the live coverage of AWS re-invent coming up in just a little bit [Music]

(upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier here in the Palo Alto theCUBE studios. I'm the co-host of theCUBE. Also co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. We're here for some big news from Veritas. We're with Eric Seidman, who's the director of Solution's Marketing for Veritas. Veritas is introducing today and the press release is on the wire, Veritas Predictive Insights. Eric, thanks for coming in today and sharing thew news. >> Thanks John, absolutely, thanks for having me. >> So you guys have a unique new thing for Veritas. Not new to the industry, but new in capabilities, called Predictive Insights. I know Dave Vellante is actually linked on your press release and covered it in Chicago as an embargo. This is exciting news for Veritas because you guys have so much customer installed base, tons of data. Talk about what this new product is. What's the news? >> Well, thanks John, actually the news it's pretty exciting. Our customers are very excited and receptive about it. What it's actually doing is helping our customers reduce both planned and unplanned down time. And the way we're doing that is with an analytics engine that we've developed that's taking all the data from over 15,000 of our appliances around the world. We've been collecting that data for three years. We have hundreds of millions of data points from that. And we're utilizing our own AI ML engines that we've created to be able to predict things in customer's environments that may cause them down time or outages, and fix those before they happen. That's why our customers are really exciting about it. >> So how much does this cost? >> Well, it doesn't really cost anything. It's a value add. You know if our customers are utilizing our Veritas auto support services today, then as of yesterday, the service is turned on and we're already looking at their systems and creating this intelligence on them. >> So this is immediately valuable. >> And immediately evaluate those. >> So this is a new product from Veritas that takes existing operational data from your customer's environment. >> Correct. >> You guys are matching in your corpus of meta data. >> Exactly. >> A telemetry data, what, hundreds of millions of signals, call center, real log data, real outages and real things. >> Right, right. >> And creating machine learning and AI on top of it to extract value for you guys or for the customer? >> Well it's really for the customer. The benefit for the customer is that we have insights into you know our world wide universe of customers. But we can look at individual systems and say, why is this one operating differently than the others? And then the machine learning will actually determine that the ones that are operating really well have this patch and this patch installed. You know those types of things. And then we can apply that learning and that model to a particular customer's system. >> And they get a dashboard. >> And they get a dashboard that'll highlight what we call the system reliability score. So there's this, you know in big enterprises there's a lot of fatigue associated with events that are occurring all the time. You think of an enterprise, we have customers with many, many just net backup appliances alone. But you think of their entire infrastructure and all the alerts that they're getting. It creates a lot of fatigue. A lot of things go unfixed because they're minor events, like maybe a patch needs to be installed or a firmware update. While they're fixing the more hair on fire problems. But then ultimately those what looked like smaller events build up and build up and then they create outages. So what we're able to do is to identify which systems have potential anomalies. Highlight those very visually. Then they can drill down and we'll have prescriptive maintenance that can be taken to improve that. >> So site reliability score, we'll get to that in a second, I think that's a big deal. I want to read the press release headline. >> Okay. >> Veritas's Predictive Insights uses original intelligence AI, machine learning, ML, to predict and prevent unplanned service. Now the key word there is unplanned service. This is kind of the doomsday scenario for customers. They got a large data center or large infrastructure devices. Unplanned basically means an outage, if something happens, something bad happens. >> Yeah, something bad happens. >> And no one likes that, so what you guys are doing is giving them a valuated dashboard that taps into a product. So if, correct me if I'm wrong, but if a customer that has Veritas, if they have the products, they get the service. If they become a customer, they now have the capability built in out of the gate. >> Absolutely, right. >> And so they see all this, so you're taking all the data from years of experience. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Giving them a dashboard to help them look at unplanned down time type scenarios, and give them specific actions to take, particularly analytics and prescriptive analytics for them. >> Exactly, so what we're trying to really achieve for our customers is to use that intelligence and machine learning to identify things that may cause an outage in the future and prevent that outage from occurring, causing that down time, by taking remedial action in advance of that happening. And that's the beauty of Predictive Insights. That's really what it's providing for our customers. >> So you guys have this always on feature called auto support feature. >> Correct. >> That kicks in and it brings the system reliability score, SRS. I think this is important. I want you to explain this, I think this is a trend we're seeing certainly on the Cloud side of the market. Google has pioneered this concept called site reliability engineer over years of practice and they make their infrastructure work great. So we know that that kind of concept of having reliability, you guys are now giving a score to each appliance. >> Correct. >> It's almost like a health detector or like credit score. >> Definitely, credit score is a good analogy of that. >> So explain SRS, what's it mean for the customer and what's the impact to them? >> Yeah, so I don't know if you ever like, maybe you use one of those credit scoring apps os something like that, where it's monitoring your credit from three different agencies or whatever. That's kind of what we're doing, only the data sets are coming from a much broader set of appliances, right. But we're showing you your system reliability score, credit score if you will. And then we're showing you very prescriptively the processes you can take to improve your credit score, if you will, or your system's health and reliability. So that might be installing a firmware patch. Installing software update, things of that nature. Replacing some drives that may fail in the future. And all of those steps will then increase that liability score. >> And also you see in the hacking world, you know that one of the biggest parts of security breaches is not loading a patch. >> Yeah, exactly. >> The unplanned, unforeseen things are you know some sort of thing goes on, a hurricane, wild fire. You never know what's going to happen, so you got to be prepared for those kinds of infrastructure change or whatever. So I get that, so the operators can have a nice dashboard. I totally buy that. I want to get into the impact to the more on business side. How does this help the business owner that's your customer, does this help them with planning, refresh rates, total cost of ownership? Can you just talk about the impact of how this data relates to their job? Because I'd be like, what's in it for me? >> Yeah, no, exactly. And there's really three key areas that we're addressing for our customers. I mean the first one is around improving their operational efficiency, right. Again, reducing that alert fatigue and making it easier on the infrastructure management to do their job with less headaches, with less dashboards lighting up. So it's very, very prescriptive on highlighting what needs to be done and helping them through that process. The other area's around the prescriptive potential fault detection. And fixing those anomalies before they can actually cause a down time event, right, doing that in advance. So that's reducing the planned and unplanned down time, which can be significant in terms of cost to your business. One of the analysts states that this 20 million a year in cost associated with down time events like that, and that varies by industry. >> And that's a dart at the board, it's a big number. >> It's a big number, yeah. >> You pick your number, right, and see which one. >> And then the third area is really around helping our customers have better predictability into what their utilization requirements are. So the benefit there is really helping them improve their ROI on our appliances. Because now they don't have to over buy and over provisions at capacity because we can show them the trend data, the amount of efficiency they're getting from data. And they can right size their appliances in terms of performance capacity, and then we can warn them in advance. >> That's a real big thing is what's happening there. That's proactive. >> It's very proactive. >> It's not reactive. >> Exactly. >> Well you can solve on the reactive side because you just fix it. But then the proactive side is really where things break as you blow over capacity, you might want to add more. >> Yeah, believe it or not, those types of things have caused down time events in our customers, where they're assuming their backups are going to complete, as an example with net backup appliances, and yet they're out of capacity. And at the last moment that's a fire drill for them. So we can show them out 30, 60, 90 days, what they're utilization is, and then a threshold is at this point in time you're going to have potential outage, some kind of problem. And so we recommend that you add this capacity before that ever occurs. >> Alright, talk about the customer reaction to that. You guys, actually it was announced today, you talk to customers all the time. When you showed customers this in pre-launch, what was some of the feedback you guys heard? What were the key areas, what did they hone in on, what was the key things about the Predictive Insights that made them get jazzed up about this? >> Yeah, so it's really I would say it covers the two key areas that I already mentioned. One of 'em is helping prevent unplanned down time. That's a big concern for our customers in any industry. And this is going to be able to help them overcome that you know kind of rear view mirror look as to what's happening in the data center. And fixing a problem after it's occurred. Now they'll be able to be in advance of that and eliminate or at least significantly reduce those types of issues. And then the other one is helping, again, in that event fatigue at the operational model. That's where we've gotten the best feedback. >> So I'm going to ask you a hard question, which is, hey you know, predictive analytics has been around for awhile, pre-descriptive. why now, what's different about this opportunity? Obviously free is good because your customers get turned on pretty quickly. They get the benefits immediately, and new customers get it. I get that piece. >> Yeah. >> But what's different about you guys with this versus what might be out in the market? >> Yeah, I would say the key differentiation is that we have this very, very large universe of installed base systems that we've been gathering data on for over three years now. So the more data you have, the more data points you have. The better results you'll get from a machine learning type of environment. And we're still collecting data, both from the machines that are coming in from the telemetry data, as well as from our service personnel. So that right off the bat makes our solution unique than others that may have been like out sooner, in that we've developed a rich data set that is being applied to the machine learning. And hence, our results out the gate are very, very good. >> And you're using that, you're not actually charging for it. So that's another big one. >> Yeah, that's true too. >> So let's get into the specifics on the rollout. So this is a digital transformation table stake. You guys are checking a big box here. >> Sure. >> This is good. It gives your product some capability that levels that meta data, and that is what this data driven world is about. And certainly IoT is even going to make this even more of a table stake. >> Absolutely. >> On the rollout side, it's all appliances, Veritas. >> Uh huh. >> And then software only and then you're going to go beyond Veritas, is that right? >> Yeah. >> Explain that, what does that mean? So I get the appliances. What does software only mean and what does beyond Veritas mean? >> Yeah, so just to reiterate, today it's our appliances only. But many of our customers consume our solutions of software. And they're putting it on their bring our own server model. Probably about 40% of our customers, right. So we believe we can add this type of capability to be able to provide insights into our software that's installed on independent third party hardware as well. Maybe some of the capabilities won't be as rich, but we're going to start building those capabilities over time and try to bring in that data and help those customers that are software only customers. >> And that's on the road map? >> That's on the road map. >> Okay, so it's not available today? Okay, beyond Veritas? >> Yeah, so obviously many of our customers today are protecting data on prime, protecting data in the Cloud or some kind of hybrid model. And we support, we don't really care where the customers want to store their data. We're capable of protecting it and helping them achieve whatever those Cloud type of initiatives are in that environment. So an obvious next step would be to, hey how can we bring this to help you know where your data is located and how it's working in those environments? Is that back up going to be able to be restored, as an example? So we're looking at future capabilities to add on to this. There's going to be huge value to our customers. >> This is great news. Thanks for coming in and sharing. I really appreciate it. I want to get your thoughts on some observations that we've been making. Certainly theCUBE coverage of Veritas has been increased. Dave Vellante's been out on the road with the team, looked at some of the new back up recovery versions, looking at new UI, kind of new Veritas going on here. >> It kind of is. >> What's the vibe going on in Veritas? What's new about Veritas for the folks watching now and saying this is really cool. Veritas is cool and relevant right now. You guys are a product market fit. You guys got kind of a new Veritas vibe going on. What's it all about? Share your thoughts. >> Yeah, so I think there's, you know, some people call us legacy, right? But I don't think that's necessarily a bad term, right. I meant like when I'm gone, I hope I've left a legacy, right, that's worthwhile. And so we have that legacy, which is great. Because we've been adding, there's value for our customers for many, many years. But what's new and exciting I think for us is that we're able to provide solutions that are very, very simple to utilize, very easy to accommodate whatever their requirements are, whether it's on print or hybrid or in the Cloud, we don't really care. So we've kind of progressed I would say into a very, very modern architecture for what we're doing. And meeting the requirements today of what our customer's are doing as well as looking forward. And this Predictive Insights piece I think is just another manifestation on how we're progressing as a company, what we can bring to today on the current problems in the data center, and also looking out in terms of where the future requirements are as well. And we're ready for those. >> Well legacy is a great word. I love you brought that up because it's a double edge sword. If you're a legacy and you don't do anything and you rest on your legacy, then you kind of, you're just milking that until the legacy is dry. >> Fair. >> But if you look at what Microsoft's done, they're classified as a legacy vendor. Office was shrink wrapped software. >> Yeah. >> Satya Nadella comes over and now they're the darling of Cloud. They've shifted their products and execution to be what customers want, which is Cloud. Now they've got Office365, Azures, you know have been repurposed. There's some stuff they could still work on, but clearly cleared the runway. >> Yeah. >> And Oracle, not so much, Microsoft has. So this is a Veritas kind of vibe that's going on similarly to Microsoft. You guys are looking, hey we've got to install a base. We're going to use that and leverage the assets of that installed base, that legacy. Harness it and make it part of the digital transformation. Is that kind of the vibe? >> No, exactly, and I think Microsoft is a great example. I mean we're in tight partnership with Azure as a matter of fact. I just came from one of our vision solution's stages where a gentleman from Azure shared the stage with us and talking about our partnerships and all that. So I mean great example, but we're bringing those capabilities into the Cloud era, if you will. We have solutions that run natively in Cloud, help that environment, so. >> Making the transition to digital transformation. Veritas, the new Veritas, they got the solutions that are Cloud enabled. Using data for the benefit of the customers, not just trying to bolt it on and make more money. They're actually bringing value to the install base and changing the game up. Eric Seidman here inside theCUBE. Director of Solutions Marketing at Veritas. Part of theCUBE conversation, part of their news coverage of their Predictive Insights. I'm John Furrier, here in the Palo Alto studios, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)