>>We're here live in Las Vegas with a cubes coverage of Amazon re Mars. It's a reinvent re Mars reinforced. The big three shows called the res. This is Mars machine learning, automation, robotic and space. It's a program about the future it and the future innovation around industrial cloud scale climate change the moon, a lot of great topics, really connecting all the dots together here in Las Vegas with Amazon re Mars I'm John ER, host of the cube. Our first guest is Howard Hughes program manager, necess Ryan program. Howard is involved with all the action and space and the moon project, which we'll get into Howard. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Well, Hey, thanks for having me here this morning. Appreciate you guys inviting me here. >>So this show is not obvious to the normal tech observer, the insiders in, in the industry. It's the confluence of a lot of things coming together. It's gonna be obvious very soon because the stuff they're showing here is pretty impressive. It's motivating, it's positive and it's a force for change in good. All of it coming together, space, machine learning, robotics, industrial, you have one of the coolest areas, the space what's going on with your Orion program. You guys got the big moon project statement to >>Explain. Well, let me tell you, I'll start with Orion. Orion is our next human space craft. That's gonna take humans beyond low earth orbit and we're part of the broader Artis campaign. So Artis is our plan, our NASA plan to return the first person of color, first woman, back to the moon. And we're very excited to do that. We have several missions that I could talk to you about starting with in a very few months, Artis one. So Artis one is going to fly on the space launch system, which is gonna be the biggest rocket we call the mega rocket has been built since the Saturn five on top of the SLS is the Ryan spacecraft and that Ryan spacecraft houses four crew members for up to 21 days in deep space. And we'll have an unru test in a few months launch on the S SLS. And Orion's gonna go around the moon for up to 40 days on Aus two, we will have the first test of the humans on board Orion. So four people will fly on Aus two. We will also circle the moon for about 10 to 12 days. And then our third mission will be our landing. >>So the moon is back in play, obviously it's close to the earth. So it's a short flight, relatively speaking the Mars a little bit further out. I'll see everyone as know what's going on in Mars. A lot of people are interested in Mars. Moon's closer. Yes, but there's also new things going on around discovery. Can you share the big story around why the moon what's? Why is the moon so important and why is everyone so excited about it? >>Yeah. You, you know, you know, coming to this conference and talking about sustainability, you know, I mean it is exploration is I think ingrained in our DNA, but it's more than just exploration is about, you know, projecting human presence beyond our earth. And these are the stepping stones. You know, we talk about Amazon talked about day one, and I think about, we are on those very early days where we're building the infrastructure Ryans of transportation infrastructure, and we're gonna build infrastructure on the moon to learn how to live on a surface and how to utilize the assets. And then that's very important because you know, it's very expensive to carry fuel, to carry water and all the necessities that you need to survive as a human being and outer space. If you can generate that on the surface or on the planet you go to, and this is a perfect way to do it because it's very in your backyard, as I told you earlier. So for future mission, when you want to go to Mars, you're nine months out, you really wanna make sure you have the technologies and you're able to utilize those technologies robustly and in a sustainable way. >>Yeah, we were talking before you came on, came camera camping in your backyard is a good practice round. Before you go out into the, to the wilderness, this is kind of what's going on here, but there's also the discovery angle. I mean, I just see so much science going on there. So if you can get to the moon, get a base camp there, get set up, then things could come out of that. What are some of the things that you guys are talking about that you see as possible exploration upside? >>Yeah. Well, several things. One is power generation recently. We just released some contracts that from vision power, so long, sustainable power capability is very, very important. You know, the other technologies that you need utilize is regenerative, you know, air, water, things that are, you need for that, but then there's a science aspect of it, which is, you know, we're going to the south pole where we think there's a lot of water potentially, or, or available water that we can extract and utilize that to generate fuel. So liquid hydrogen liquid oxygen is one of the areas that are very interesting. And of course, lunar minerals are very exciting, very interesting to bring and, and, and be able to mine potentially in the future, depending on what is there. >>Well, a lot of cool stuff happening. What's your take on this show here, obviously NASA's reputation as innovators and deep technologists, you know, big moonshot missions, pun intended here. You got a lot of other explorations. What's this show bring together, share your perspective because I think the story here to me is you got walkout retail, like the Amazon technology, you got Watson dynamics, the dog, everyone loves that's walking on. Then you got supply chain, robotics, machine learning, and space. It all points to one thing, innovation around industrial. I think what, what, what's your, what's your, what's your take? >>You know, I think one of the things is, is, you know, normally we are innovating in a, in our aerospace industry. You know, I think there's so much to learn from innovation across all these areas you described and trying to pull some of that into the spacecraft. You know, when, when you're a human being sitting in spacecraft is more than just flying the spacecraft. You know, you have interaction with displays, you have a lot of technologies that you normally would want to interact with on the ground that you could apply in space to help you and make your tasks easier. And I think those are things that are really important as we look across, you know, the whole entire innovative infrastructure that I see here in this show, how can we extract some that and apply it in the space program? I think there is a very significant leveraging that you could do off of that. >>What are some of the look at what's going on in donors? What are some of the cool people who aren't following the day to day? Anything? >>Well, well, certainly, you know, the Artman's mission Artis campaign is one of the, the, the coolest things I could think of. That's why I came into, you know, I think wrapping around that where we are not only just going to a destination, but we're exploring, and we're trying to establish a very clear, long term presence that will allow us to engage. What I think is the next step, which is science, you know, and science and the, and the things that can, can come out of that in terms of scientific discoveries. And I think the cool, coolest thing would be, Hey, could we take the things that we are in the labs and the innovation relative to power generation, relative to energy development of energy technologies, robotics, to utilize, to help explore the surface. And of course the science that comes out of just naturally, when you go somewhere, you don't know what to expect. And I think that's what the exciting thing. And for NASA, we're putting a program, an infrastructure around that. I think that's really exciting. Of course, the other parts of NASA is science. Yeah. And so the partnering those two pieces together to accomplish a very important mission for everybody on planet earth is, is really important. >>And also it's a curiosity. People are being curious about what's going on now in space, cuz the costs are down and you got universities here and you got the, of robotics and industrial. This is gonna provide a, a new ground for education, younger, younger generation coming up. What would you share to teachers and potential students, people who wanna learn what's different about now than the old generation and what's the same, what what's the same and what's new. What's how does someone get their arms around this, their mind around it? Where can they jump in? This is gonna open up the aperture for, for, for talent. I mean with all the technology, it's not one dimensional. >>Yeah. I think what is still true is core sciences, math, you know, engineering, the hard science, chemistry, biology. I mean, I think those are really also very important, but what we're we're getting today is the amount of collaboration we're able to do against organically. And I think the innovation that's driven by a lot of this collaboration where you have these tools and your ability to engage and then you're able to, to get, I would say the best out of people in lots of different areas. And that's what I think one of the things we're learning at NASA is, you know, we have a broad spectrum of people that come to work for us and we're pulling that. And now we're coming to these kinds of things where we're kind getting even more innovation ideas and partnerships so that we are not just off on our own thinking about the problem we're branching out and allowing a lot of other people to help us solve the problems that >>We need. You know, I've noticed with space force too. I had the same kind of conversations around those with those guys as well. Collaboration and public private partnerships are huge. You've seen a lot more kind of cross pollination of funding, col technology software. I mean, how do you do break, fix and space at software, right? So you gotta have, I mean, it's gotta work. So you got security challenges. Yeah. This is a new frontier. It is the cybersecurity, the usability, the operationalizing for humans, not just, you know, put atypical, you know, scientists and, and, and astronauts who are, you know, in peak shape, we're talking about humans. Yeah. What's the big problem to solve? Is it security? Is it, what, what would you say the big challenges >>Are? Yeah. You know, I think information and access to information and how we interact with information is probably our biggest challenge because we have very limited space in terms of not only mass, but just volume. Yeah. You know, you want to reserve the space for the people and they, they need to, you know, you want maximize your space that you're having in spacecraft. And so I think having access to information, being able to, to utilize information and quickly access systems so you can solve problems cuz you don't know when you're in deep space, you're several months out to Mars, what problems you might encounter and what kind of systems and access to information you need to help you solve the problems. You know, both, both, both from a just unplanned kind of contingencies or even planned contingencies where you wanna make sure you have that information to do it. So information is gonna be very vital as we go out into deep >>Space and the infrastructure's changed. How has the infrastructure changed in terms of support services? I mean see, in the United States, just the growth of a aerospace you mentioned earlier is, is just phenomenal. You've got smaller, faster, cheaper equipment density, it solved the technology. Where's there gonna be the, the big game changing move movement. Where do you see it go? Is it AIST three? It kind of kicks in AIST ones, obviously the first one unmanned one. But where do in your mind, do you see key milestones that are gonna be super important to >>Watch? I think, I think, I think, you know, we've already, you know, pushed the boundaries of what we, we are, you know, in terms of applying our aerospace technologies for AIST one and certainly two, we've got those in, in work already. And so we've got that those vehicles already in work and built yeah. One already at the, at the Kennedy space center ready for launch, but starting with three because you have a lot more interaction, you gotta take the crew down with a Lander, a human landing system. You gotta build rovers. You've gotta build a, a capability which they could explore. So starting with three and then four we're building the gateway gateways orbiting platform around the moon. So for all future missions after Rist three, we're gonna take Aion to the gateway. The crew gets into the orbiting platform. They get on a human landing system and they go down. >>So all that interaction, all that infrastructure and all the support equipment you need, not only in the orbit of the moon, but also down the ground is gonna drive a lot of innovation. You're gonna have to realize, oh, Hey, I needed this. Now I need to figure out how to get something there. You know? And, and how much of the robotics and how much AI you need will be very interesting because you'll need these assistance to help you do your daily routine or lessen your daily routine. So you can focus on the science and you can focus on doing the advancing those technologies that you're gonna >>Need. And you gotta have the infrastructure. It's like a road. Yeah. You know, you wanna go pop down to the moon, you just pop down, it's already built. It's ready for you. Yep. Come back up. So just ease of use from a deployment standpoint is, >>And, and the infrastructure, the things that you're gonna need, you know, what is a have gonna look like? What are you gonna need in a habitat? You know, are, are you gonna be able to have the power that you're gonna have? How many station power stations are you gonna need? Right. So all these things are gonna be really, things are gonna be driven by what you need to do the mission. And that drives, I think a lot of innovation, you know, it's very much like the end goal. What are you trying to solve? And then you go, okay, here's what I need to solve to build things, to solve that >>Problem. There's so many things involved in the mission. I can imagine. Safety's huge. Number one, gotta be up safe. Yep. Space is dangerous game. Yes. Yeah. It's not pleasant there. Not for the faint of heart. As you say, >>It's not for the faint >>Heart. That's correct. What's the big safety concerns obviously besides blowing up and oxygen and water and the basic needs. >>I think, I think, you know, I think you, you said it very well, you know, it is not for the faint of heart. We try to minimize risk. You know, asset is one of the big, you're sitting under 8.8 million pounds of thrust on the launch vehicle. So it is going very fast and you're flying and you, and, and it's it's light cuz we got solid rocket motors too as well. Once they're lit. They're lit. Yeah. So we have a escape system on Orion that allows a crew to be safe. And of course we build in redundancy. That's the other thing I think that will drive innovation. You know, you build redundancy in the system, but you also think about the kind of issues that you would run into potentially from a safety perspective, you know, how you gonna get outta situation if you get hit by a meteor, right? Right. You, you, you are going through the band, Ellen belt, you have radiation. So you know, some of these things that are harsh on your vehicle and on, on the human side of this shop too. And so when you have to do these things, you have to think about what are you gonna protect for and how do you go protect for that? And we have to find innovations for >>That. Yeah. And it's also gonna be a really exciting air for engineering work. And you mentioned the data, data's huge simulations, running scenarios. This is where the AI comes in. And that seems to me where the dots connect from me when you start thinking about how to have, how to run those simulations, to identify what's possible. >>I think that's a great point, you know, because we have all this computing capability and because we can run simulations and because we can collect data, we have terabytes of data, but it's very challenging for humans to analyze at that level. So AI is one of the things we're looking at, which is trying to systematically have a process by which data is called through so that the engineering mind is only looking at the things and focus on things that are problematic. So we repeat tests, every flight, you don't have to look at all the terabytes of data of each test. You have a computer AI do that. And you allow yourself to look at just the pieces that don't look right, have anomalies in the data. Then you're going to do that digging, right. That's where the power of those kinds of technologies can really help us because we have that capability to do a lot of computing. >>And I think that's why this show to me is important because it, it, it shows for the first time, at least from my coverage of the industry where technology's not the bottleneck anymore, it's human mind. And we wanna live in a peaceful world with climate. We wanna have the earth around for a while. So climate change was a huge topic yesterday and how the force for good, what could come outta the moon shots is to, is to help for earth. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. Better understanding there all good. What's your take on the show. If you had to summarize this show, re Mars from the NASA perspective. So you, the essence space, what's the what's going on here? What's the big, big story. >>Yeah. For, for me, I think it's eyeopening in terms of how much innovation is happening across a spectrum of areas. And I look at various things like bossy, scientific robots that the dog that's walking around. I mean to think, you know, people are applying it in different ways and then those applications in a lot of ways are very similar to what we need for exploration going forward. And how do you apply some of these technologies to the space program and how do we leverage that? How do we leverage that innovation and how we take the innovations already happening organically for other reasons and how would those help us solve those problems that we're gonna encounter going forward as we try to live on another planet? >>Well, congratulations on a great assignment. You got a great job. I do super fun. I love being an observer and I love space. Love how at the innovations there. And plus space space is cool. I mean, how many millions of live views do you see? Everyone's stopping work to watch SpaceX land and NASA do their work. It's just, it's bringing back the tech vibe. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's just, things are going you a good tailwind. Yeah. >>Congratulations. Thank you very much. >>Appreciate it on the, okay. This cube coverage. I'm John fur. You're here for the cube here. Live in Las Vegas back at reinvent reinforce re Mars, the reser coverage here at re Mars. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud. Next on Air 20. Hi, I'm Stew Minimum And and this is the Cube's coverage of Google Cloud next 20 on air, Of course. Last year we were all in person in San Francisco. This year it's an online experience. It's actually spanning many weeks and this week when we're releasing the Cube interviews, talking about application modernization, happy to welcome back program two of our Cube alumni. Chris Well, I've got Aparna Sinha, Uh, who is the director of product management, and joining her is Pali Bhat, who's the vice president of product and design, both with Google Cloud Poly. Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Good to be here. >>Well, so it goes without saying it. That 2020 has had quite a lot of changes. Really affect it. Start with you. You know, obviously there's been a lot of discussion is what is the impact of the global pandemic? The ripple in the economy on cloud. So I would love to hear a little bit. You know what you're hearing from your customers. What? That impact has been on on you and your business. >>Yes to thank thank you for asking as I look at our customers, what's been most inspiring for me to see is how organizations and the people in those organizations are coming together to help each other during this unprecedented event. And one of the things I wanted to highlight is, as we all adjust to this sort of new normal, there are two things that I keep seeing across every one of our customers. Better operation efficiency, with the focus on cost saving is something that's a business imperative and has drawn urgency. And the second bit is an increased focus on agility and business innovation. In the current atmosphere, where digital has truly become gone from being one of the channels being D channel, we're seeing our customers respond by being more innovative and reaching their customers in the way that they want to be rich. And that's been, for me personally, very inspiring to see. And we turned on Google Cloud to be a part of helping our customers in this journey in terms of our business itself. We're seeing tremendous momentum around our organization business because it plays directly into these two business imperatives around operational efficiency, cost saving and, of course, business innovation and agility. In Q two of 2020 we saw more than 100,000 companies use our application modernization platform across G ke and those cloud functions Cloud Run and our developers tools. So we've been, uh, just tagged with the response of how customers are using our tools in order to help them run their businesses, operate more efficiently and be more innovative on behalf of their customers. So we're seeing customers use everything from building mission critical applications who then securing, migrating and then operating our services. And we've also seen that customers get tremendous benefits. We've seen up to a 35% increase simply by using our own migration tools. And we've also seen it up to 75% improvement to all of the automation and re platform ing that they can do with our monetization platform. That's been incredible. What I do want to do. Those have a partner chime in on some of the complexity that these customers are seeing and how we're going about trying to address that >>Yes, eso to help our customers with the application modernization journey. Google Cloud really offers three highly differentiated capabilities. Us to the first one is really providing a consistent development and operations experience, and this is really important because you want the same experience, regardless of whether you're running natively in Google Cloud or you're running across clouds or you're running hybrid or you're running at the edge. And I think this is a truly unique differentiator off what we offer. Secondly, we really give customers and their developers industry leading guidance. And this is particularly important because there's a set of best practices on how you do development, how you run these applications, how you operate them in production for high reliability, a exceptional security staff, the stature and for the maximum developer efficiency on. And we provide the platform and the tooling to do that so that it can be customized to it's specific customers needs and their specific place on that modernization journey. And then the third thing on and I think this is incredibly important as well is that we would ride a data driven approach, a data driven optimization and benchmarking approach so that we can tell you where you are with regard to best practice and then help you move towards best practice, no matter where you're starting. >>Yeah, well, thank you, Aparna and Polly definitely resonates with what we're hearing. You know, customers need to be data driven. And then there's the imperative Now that digital movement Pali last year at the show, of course, Antos was, you know, really the talk of the conference years gone by. We know things move really fast, so if you could, you know, probably don't have time to get all of the news, but share with us the updates what differentiated this year along from a new standpoint, >>Yeah, So we've got tremendous set off improvements to the platform. And one of the things that I wanted to just share was that our customers as they actually migrate on to onto the cloud and begin the modernization journeys in their digital transformation programs. What we're seeing over and over is those customers that start with the platform as opposed to an individual application, are set up for success in the future. The platform, of course, is an tos where your application modernization journey begins. In terms of updates, we're gonna share a series off updates in block post, etcetera. I just want to highlight a few. We're sharing their availability off Antos for their middle swathe things that our customers have been asking about. And now our customers get to run on those on Prem and at the edge without the need for a hyper visor. What this does is helps organizations minimize unnecessary overhead and ultimately unlock all of the new cloud and edge use case. The second bit is we're not in the GF our speech to text on prem capability, but this is our first hybrid AI capability. So customers like Iron Mountain get to use hybrid AI, so they have full control of the infrastructure and have control off their data so they can implement data residency and compliance while still leveraging all of Google Cloud AI capabilities. Third services identity again. This extends existing identity solutions so that you can seamlessly work on and those workloads again. This is going to be generally available for on premise customers and better for Antos on AWS, and you're going to see more and more customers be able to leverage their existing identity investments while still getting the consistency that Anton's provides across environments. In the last one that I like to highlight is on those attached clusters, which lets customers bring any kubernetes conforming cluster on Toronto's and still take advantage of the advanced capabilities that until provides like declarative configurations and service automation. So one of the customers I just want to call out is Cold just built it. Entire hybrid cloud strategy on Anton's Day began with the platform first, and now we're seeing a record number of customers on Cold Start camaraderie. Take advantage of Mantel's tempting. With Macquarie Bank played, there's a number of use cases. I am particularly excited about major league baseball. I'm a big fan of baseball, and Major League Baseball is now using and those for 2020 season and all of the stadium across, trusting a large amount of data and gives them the capability to get those capabilities in stadiums very, really acceptable. All of those >>Okay, quick, quick. Follow up on that and those attached clusters because it was one of the questions I had last year. Google Cloud has partnerships with VM Ware for what they're doing. You know, Red Hat and Pivotal also is part of the VM Ware families, and they have their own kubernetes offering. So should I be thinking of this as a management capability that's similar to like what? What Andrew does Or maybe as your arca, Or is it just a kind of interoperability piece? How do we understand how these multiple kubernetes fit together? >>Yeah. So what we've done with Antos has really taken the approach that we need to help our customers are made and manage the infrastructure to specifically what Antos attach clusters gives our customers is they can have any kubernetes cluster as long as it's kubernetes conformance, they can benefit from all of the things that we provide in terms of automation. One of the challenges, of course, is you know, those two is configuring these very, very large instances in walls. A lot of handcrafting today we can provide declarative configuration. So you automate all of that. So think of this as configures code I think of this is infrastructure scored management scored. We're providing that service automation layer on top of any kubernetes conforming cluster with an tools. >>Great. Alright, uh, it's at modernization weeks, so Ah, partner, maybe bring us in aside. You were talking about your customers and what their what they're doing to modernize what's new that they should be aware of this year. >>Yeah, so So, First of all, you know, our mission is really to accelerate innovation in every organization through making their developers more productive as well as automating their operations. And this is something that is resonating even more in these times. Specifically, I think the biggest news that we have is really around, how we're going to help companies get started with the application modernization so that they can maximize the impact of their modernization efforts. And to do this, we're introducing what we're calling. The Google Cloud Application Modernization program or a Google camp for short on Google Camp has three pieces. It has an assessment, which is really data driven and fact based. It's a baseline assessment that helps organizations understand where they are in terms of their maturity with application modernization. Secondly, we give them a blueprint. This is something that is, is it encapsulates a specific set of best practices, proven best practices from development to security to operations, and it's something that they can put into practice and implement immediately. These practices, they cover the entire application lifecycle from writing the code to the See I CD to running it and operating it for maximum reliability and security. And then the third aspect, of course, is the application platform. And this is a modern platform, but also extremely extensible. And, as you know, it spans across clouds on this enables organizations to build, run and secure and, of course, manage both legacy as well as new applications. And the good news, of course, here is you know, this is a time tested platform. It's something that we use internally as well. For our Cloud ML services are being query omni service capability as well as for apogee, hot hybrid and many more at over time. So with the Google campus really covered all aspects of the application lifecycle. And we think it's extremely important for enterprises to have this capability. >>Yeah, so a party when you talk about the extent ability, I would expect that Google Cloud Run is one of the options there to help give us a bridge to get to server list. If that's where customers looking to my right on >>that, that's rights to the camp program provides is holistic, and it brings together many of our capabilities. So Cloud Code Cloud See I CD Cloud Run, which is our server less offering and also includes G ki e and and those best practices. Because customers for their applications, they're usually using multiple platforms. Now, in the case of Cloud Run, in particular, I want to highlight that there's been a lot of interest in the serverless capability during this last few months. In particular, I think, disproportionate amount of interest and server lists on container Native. In fact, according to the CNC F 2020 State of Cloud Native Development Report, you might have seen that, you know, they noted that 2.7 million cloud native developers are using kubernetes and four million are using serverless architectures or cloud functions, and that about 60% of back and developers are now using containers. So this just points to the the usage that was happening already and is now really disproportionately accelerated. In our case, you know, we've we've worked with several customers at the New York State Department and Media Market. Saturn are two that are really excellent stories with the New York State Department. They had a unemployment claims crisis. There was a lot. Ah, volume. That was difficult for their application to handle. And so we worked with them to re architect their application as a set of micro services on Google Cloud on our public sector team of teamed up with them to roll out a new unemployment website in record time. That website was able to handle the 1600% increase in Web traffic compared to a typical week. And this is very much do, too, the dev ops tooling that we provided and we worked with them on and then with Media market Saturn. This is really an excellent example in EMEA based example of a retailer that was able to achieve an eight X increase in speed as well as a 40% cost reduction. And these are really important metrics in these times in particular because for a retailer in the Cove in 19 crisis, to be able to bring new applications and new features to the hands of their customers is ultimately something that impacts their business is extremely valuable. >>Yeah, you think you bring up a really great point of partner when I traditionally think of application modernization. Maybe I've been in the space to long. But it is. Simplicity is not. The first thing that comes to mind is probably pointed out right now. There's an imperative people need to move fast, so I want to throw it out to both of you. How is Google's trying to make sure that, you know, in these uncertain times that customers can move fast and that with all these technology options that it could be just a little bit simpler? >>Yeah, I think I just, uh you know, start off by saying the first thing we've done is build all of our services from the ground up with automation, simplicity and agility in mind. So we've designed for development teams and operations teams be able to take these solutions and get productive with them right away. In addition, we understand that some of our largest customers actually need dedicated program where they can actually assess where they are and then map out a plan for incremental improvement so they can get on their journey to application modernization. But do it with the highest our way. And that was Google camp that apartment talked about ultimately at Google Cloud. Our mission, of course, is to accelerate innovation. Every organization toe hold developer velocity improvements, but also giving them the operation automation that we talked about with that application modernization platform. So we're very excited to be able to do this with every organization. >>Great. Well, Aparna, I'll let you have the final word Is the application modernization week here at Google Cloud. Next online, you can have the final take away for customers. >>Well, thank you, cio. You know, we are extremely passionate about developers on. We want to make sure that it is easy for anyone, anywhere to be able to get started with development as well as to have a path to, uh, accelerated path to production for their applications. So some of what we've done in terms of simplicity, which, as you said is extremely important in this environment, is to really make it easy to get started on. Some of the announcements are around build packs and the integration of cloud code are plug ins to the development environment directly into our serverless environment. And that's the type of thing that gets me excited. And I think I'm very passionate about that because it's something that applies to everyone. Uh, you know, regardless of where they are or what type of person they are, they can get started with development. And that can be a path to economic renewal and growth not just for companies, but for individuals. And that's a mission that we're extremely passionate about. Google Cloud >>Apartment Poly Thank you so much for sharing all the updates. Congratulations to the team. And definitely great to hear about how you're helping customers in these challenging times. >>Thank you for having us on. >>Thank you. So great to see you again. >>Alright. Stay tuned for more coverage from stew minimum and, as always, Thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.

(bright upbeat music) >> Reporter: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston. Connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're coming to you today from our Palo Alto studios, talking about a really important topic. And that's data. And as we hear over and over and over, right data is the oil. Data is the new currency. Data is driving business decisions. Data drives AI. Data drives machine learning. Data is increasingly important. And we're still kind of waiting for it, to show up on balance sheets. Which is kind of implied in a lot of the big iterations, that we see in companies that are built on data. But one of the important things about data, is taking care of it. And we're excited to have our next guest here to talk about, some of the things you need to think about, and best practices in securing your data. Backing up your data, protecting your data. We're joined today by Tim Burlowski. He is the senior director, Product Management from Veritas. Joining us from remote. I believe you're in Minnesota. Tim, great to see you. >> Yep, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so let's just jump into it. So all we hear about is data these days. It's such an important topic, that is growing exponentially. And it's structured and it's unstructured. And it's so core to the business. And are you making database decisions? And are you getting enough data to drive your AI? And your machine learning algorithms? I mean, data is only exploding. You've been in this business for a long, a long, long time. I wonder if you can share your perspective, when you hear these things. more data is going to be created in the next 15 minutes. And wasn't the entire history of men before us? I'm making that up, but it's been quite an explosion. >> I know yeah, I know where you're coming from. And frankly, I don't even put that, in my presentation anymore. Because it's a lot like saying gravity exists, And things that you drop out, of a window will fall to the ground. Everyone's heard it. Everyone's aware of it. The numbers are just so staggering. You don't even know what to do with it. Like how many iPhones could you stack to the moon and back and then to Saturn? Doesn't make sense. But the truth is, we are seeing an explosion. Everyone knows it. We have to manage it better. Now for us, a lot of what we do, is in this data protection space. Where we want to make sure, that data is protected and always available. All of the data that's been created, and the growth in mission-critical applications. It's no longer seven to 20 mission-critical applications. It's hundreds and hundreds of mission-critical applications. Means you have to be ready, with a recent recovery if necessary. And you need to provide that data back to the consumer, as quickly as you possibly can. Because you've got people waiting on it. We've all got our apps on our phone, where we're looking at our bank account 24 seven. We don't wait until a teller appears at nine a.m anymore. It's not the world we live in. >> Right, I'm just curious if you've got some tailwinds, in terms of you're kind of, you've been in this market for a very long time. In terms of people finally realizing that their data, is really more of an asset and a liability. In the investments, to gather it, protect it, analyze it, have it ready for refresh it, If there's some problem. It's a positive investment towards, kind of revenue and strategic importance to the company, as opposed to kind of a back-office IT function, that we're kind of taking care of business because we have to. >> Boy that one really varies a lot by company. I see companies taking shortcuts and outsourcing, and then suddenly you'll see them in the news. And they discover that they had a major outage for a couple of days. And suddenly practices change very, very quickly. The relative comprehensive, sturdy and reliable infrastructure that people run today, sometimes lulls people into false security. And then you see a major airlines with a multi-day outage. And you go hmm, I think we missed a few steps in the process. So it sometimes takes those rude awakenings. But the companies who are really taking it seriously, and starting to practice pruning their data, examining their data for PII. So they meet various compliance regimes, and other in various states and countries. And starting to think about their backup stream, really being, how do we get a fast recovery? Instead of how do I make a copy, which I will never use again? Are really starting to drive a more efficient IT operation, when it comes to data protection. >> No, it's an interesting take, in reference to having some issue. Because we do a lot of stuff around security. Which is related to but not equal to this conversation. And one of the topics in security is that, most people have already been breached. It's just a function of how fast can you find out, and how fast can you minimize the damage? And how fast can you move on? Why are they breaching? They're breaching to get the data. So I would imagine, with this constant reading in the newspaper, of who was breached here there and everywhere, pretty much every day. That's got to be a huge driver, in terms of people kind of upping their game, and the sophistication, of the way they really think about data protection. >> It is and I'll tell you, I've had the misfortune, I would say. Of talking to customers who are in the middle of recovering, from a major ransomware malware attack. And it's a very difficult proposition. And what customers often discover is, they haven't practiced enough, they don't have enough of a DR plan present. We are certainly rising the occasion. Our products are sort of the last thing, that often stands between the customer, losing their data completely. And so we're looking at a number of technology innovations, that will enable them to store their data on immutable devices. And for the backup infrastructure, to be completely aware of that. Which we'll be announcing later this summer. Which we're very excited about. Of course, from our perspective of our appliance portfolio, we've always provided a couple of extra layers of security against intrusion detection, and intrusion prevention right out of the box. Because we know the backup infrastructure becomes this collection of the very most important data in your infrastructure. Because that's the thing you back up. And you want to restore. If there's ever any sort of manmade disaster or otherwise. >> Right. So I want to shift gears a little bit, and talk about kind of the evolution of the infrastructure kind of scene. If you will. With the rise of public clouds, with Amazon and Google and Microsoft, is sure. And then obviously, you tried into a data center. Lot of talk about HP discover, this week kind of going from edge to cloud and data center in the middle. So the environment in which these applications live, and these applications run, and where the data is, relative to those applications. Is evolved dramatically over the last, you probably have a much better time perspective than I do. Five years, 10 years. But it continues to accelerate, in this kind of Application-Centric World versus, kind of an Infrastructure Centric World. Just curious to get your take on, The kind of the challenges that presents to your company, and what you guys are trying to do to accomplish. And how do you see that continuing to evolve and get, not simpler but more complex over time? >> That is a very astute acknowledgement of what's going on in the industry. And I often call it the industry's getting weirder. I would have thought at some point, we'd sort of have Linux and Windows, and a couple of database vendors. And the truth is that database vendors exploded. And it's not just Linux anymore. It's containers. And it might be a container based on CentOS. And it might be container running in the cloud. Or it might be a simple function, like a lambda function running on nothing in AWS. And so this whole world has gotten a lot stranger. From my perspective, I think the biggest change for Veritas, has been a renewed focus on API's that we make public to customers, in ways that we can glue and stitch these systems together. Now, of course, it doesn't replace the deep integration, we do with companies like VMware, with Docker, as well as the the container ecosystem around. OpenShift and some of those technologies. But from our perspective, we've had to be a little bit more prolific, in what we support. And the truth is, it's all files, it's all objects, it's all things we've done before. But they just keep bubbling up in new and different ways. >> Right, but what's interesting though, is you touch on all kinds of stuff there with Kubernetes and clouds and in containers. Is a lot of it's kind of ethereal, right? The whole idea of of a cloud-based infrastructure, is that you can bring it up and bring it down as you need it. You can adjust it as you go. And literally turn it off when you don't need it. And bring it back up. And then you add to that serverless. And this kind of increasing atomization, of all the different parts of compute. Kind of an interesting thing for you guys, to try to back up as these things are created and destructed. We hear these crazy stories of, automating Kubernetes to spin up tons of these things at a time and then bring them back back down. And then I'm curious too. Within that is also the open source. kind of challenge in continuing to have evolution in open source technologies, API's, et cetera. So it is getting weirder and weirder, on a number of fronts as you guys continue to evolve with the market. >> Absolutely, and all I'll tell you, you have to think about all technologies as being on a bridge. As I remind people, we have washing machines. They work really well but washboards still exist, even though it's a technology from 18th century, or beforehand. Now, they may be used as still do exist. Now, my point in this is, people need a bridge. Most enterprises run on an amazing amount of technology, they've developed as a stack over the last 10 to 15 years. And they can't immediately rewrite that, and put it all in a cloud container. So we're actually seeing a lot of use of containers, and Kubernetes with fairly heavy application stacks. When you think about something as heavy as, all have Oracle inside of a container. You can understand that, that's a big lift for container. And it's not ephemeral at all. Then it reaches out to storage, that has that persistence value. And that's where we come in. 'Cause we want to make sure that persistent storage, is always protected. And easily available to the customer for any recovery needs. >> Is great, so I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, to talk about regulations and compliance. 'Cause, regulatory requirements drive a lot of behavior and activity, and really oftentimes, are ahead of maybe the business prerogative to do things like provide backups, provide quick and dirty, quick and easy access. Because you needed it for, a public Freedom of Information Act request. Or you need it for some type of court type of activity. So I wonder if you can kind of talk about, how the regulatory environment, continues to evolve over time. And how does that impact, what you guys are doing in the marketplace? >> Great question. The biggest place is It's affected us, is customers are starting to think about privacy. And where do I have data which relates to, personally identifying information. And that's really driven a lot, by the European regulations around GDPR. Then we're seeing the California Privacy Act come in. And a number of other states are considering legislation in this area. In some ways, it's actually been a good news story for data protection and data management. Because people are starting to say, I should identify where the data is, I should figure out where the PII is. And I should make sure, I'm actually using my backups for the right purposes. Which is something we've always believed in. We've always thought, Hey, Mr. Customer, I see you're backing up an Oracle database for 10 years. What are you going to do with it in 10 years? Are you going to install Oracle seven and reboot it? It doesn't really add up to me. So, how can you get to a true archive, for that data you really need archive? And then for your backup set, how can you keep it lean and mean. And just keep it for the length of time you actually need it? Which for many customers, could be as little as 14, 15 days, maybe six months, maybe a year. But it's often not those extreme retentions people were thinking of, when they were building their tape based infrastructure 10 years ago. >> Right, that's funny. 'Cause as you mentioned, also I'm thinking of, is big data. Right in this constant kind of conversation. In the Big Data world is they keep everything forever, with the hopes that at some point in time, there may be a different algorithm or a different kind of process, you might run on that, but you didn't think about. Right kind of scheme on read versus scheme on right. But to your point, is that necessarily something that has to be backed up, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of policy driven activity. Than to drive the software to define what to back up, what you don't back up, how you back it up, how long you back it up? And a lot of kind of business decisions as opposed to technology decisions. >> Absolutely, that's been on the back of, the price of storing a bit of data, has declined over the last 10 years. An average 15 percent year over year. For a very long time. So people have ignored the problem. But the truth is, when you're really working at scale, there's a tremendous amount of waste. And we've identified for customers, using our data analytics technology. Millions of dollars of cost savings, where they were, both had storing files on, expensive primary tier one storage. And they were backing up those same, that same bit of information every single week. Even though it hadn't changed, or hadn't been read in seven plus years, and they couldn't find an owner for the information in the company. They literally didn't know why they had it. And I think people are starting to consider that. Especially in budget constraint times. >> Right, it's so funny, right? Sometimes it's such a simple answer, a friend one time had a startup, and he was doing contract management. This is 20 years ago. And I was like, how do you manage the complexity of contracts inside software. Again 20 years ago. And he said, Jeff, that's not it at all. We just need to know like, where is the contract? who signed it and when does it expire? And they built the business, on answering simple questions like that. It's sometimes the simple stuff that's the hard stuff. I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, on what bear toss dude in the market in terms of still having appliances? I'm sure a lot of people like weight appliances. Why are we still using appliances? This is a software defined world. And everything just runs on x86 architecture. You guys still have appliances, tell us a little bit about the why. And some of the benefits of having, kind of a dedicated hardware, software piece of equipment, versus just a pure software solution that sits on anybody's box. >> That's a great question. Thanks for asking. When I think about that world, you have to understand Veritas at its core is absolutely a software company. We build software and we preserve the choice and how the customer implements. When I say we preserve choice. We obviously still support old school Unix. We certainly have enormous investment in the x86 world, both on Windows and various Linux flavors. And of course, you can run those same That same software in the cloud. And of course, you can run it inside of a virtualized infrastructure. So we always like to preserve choice. Now why did we create the appliance business, it's frankly because customers asked us to. The thing that made storing backups on disk affordable, was this technology known as deduplication. Which at its heart is just a fancy kind of compression, That's very, very good at copies of data, where there's a lot of blocks that are have been seen before. And so we don't store them if we've seen them before. We simply store the ones that are new and fresh. So from our perspective, customers said, "we want this technology." And the market really moved away, from general purpose solutions on servers to do that. Because it was very hard to build something, that could have a very high throughput, very high memory, and at the same time, could give excellent support for random access reads, when the customer actually needed to read that data. And so we created a purpose built appliances as a result. And what we discovered in the the process was, there were a lot of pieces that were actually fairly hard in the enterprise. So when a customer would describe, the purchasing process of their typical solution before appliances, they would talk about, filing tickets with the server team. Filing tickets with the storage team. Filing tickets with security team. And sometimes taking six or nine months, to get a piece of equipment ready to install the backup software on the floor. Whereas with ours, they placed an order, it showed up on the dock, as soon as it when it was in the rack, they were ready to go and working independently. Now while we have a great and thriving appliance business, we're very, very proud of, we always preserve choice at Veritas. And even though that's the business I represent, I would make sure our customers always understand, that we're interested in the best platform for the customer. So that's our basic perspective. If you want to go deeper, let me know where you have questions. (chuckles) >> Well, I'm curious on the process, when there's a fail, when there's attack, when there's ransomware, whatever. When you need to go back to your backup. What are some of the things that your approach enables, or what are kind of the typical stumbling blocks that are the hardest things to overcome. That people miss when they're planning for that. Or thinking about it. That kind of rear their ugly heads, when the time comes that, oh, I guess we need to go back to a backup version. >> Yeah, and I'll break that input into this disaster recovery or restore process. And then also the process of backup. So when you think about that disaster recovery, and I'll use ransomware as that piece of it. Because that's the real kind of disaster, when you're looking at equipment in the infrastructure, which has been wiped clean. That's a worst case scenario for most IT managers. When you think about that situation, we've built into our appliances first of all, a hardened Linux OS. Meaning we've shrank down that OS as much as we possibly could. Second, we've added role-based access protection. To make sure that you simply can't log in and perform activities which you're not privileged to perform. And then we have intrusion protection software, intrusion detection software. To ensure that even for those zero day attacks, that we may not even be aware of when we release our software, that the system is hardened. Of course, you have firewalls and STIG rules, STIG or rules are DoD standard, for hardening Linux based devices. So we've got a hardened device. And I was talking to a customer, in a different part of the world this week. Where they described having a data center, where everything had been wiped. And there's one thing left there, their NetBackup appliances. And they were then able to then take that, and use that for the restore. Because that was a real vault for their data. Now, the flipside is, that's a rare day. So that is truly a black swan event. When you think about day to day, and we're running a data protection operation, really think about speed of backup. And for us being able to take something that's neatly tuned for the hardware, the operating system, the tuning, the net backup software is all configured out of the box and ready to go. And the data protection folks, can be independently able to drive that is a great value. Because essentially, you have Lego style building blocks. Where you can order device, it always performs the same. And three years from now, you don't have to redesign it. And take your expensive IT staff and ask them to figure out what's the best solution. We've just got another one off the shelf for you, another series in the model. >> Right >> Now, as you said earlier, the world's getting weirder. It definitely is. So we'll be branching off into what kind of appliances we offer. And you'll see some announcements later, in the year where we'll be offering some reference architecture approaches, which will be a little different than what we offer today. Just to meet the customer demand that's out there. >> Yeah, that's great. I mean, 'cause as you said, it's all about customer choice. And meeting the customer where they want to meet. But before I let you go, this is pretty interesting conversation. I want to get your perspective, as someone who's been in the business, for a really long time. And as you look at opportunities around, machine learning and artificial intelligence, and you look at kind of the I'm going to steal your line about things getting weirder. And use over and over. But as they continue to get weirder and weirder, where do you see kind of the evolution is, you kind of sit back, not necessarily in the next six months or so. But where do you see growth opportunities and places you want to go? That better still out in front of you, even though you've been doing this for many, many years? >> Well, that's a great question. So this is yet another wave. And that's often how I look at it. Meaning, there's a wave of Unix. There's a wave of windows. There's wave of virtualization. And each of these technologies, brought some real shifts to our environment. I think, from my perspective, the next big wave is dealing with ransomware. And some of these compliance requirements we talked about earlier. And then I can't get away from this big data, AI piece and my son's studying computer science in college. And that's a weekly conversation for us. What's new in that front? Because I think we're going to see, a lot more technology developed there. We are just truly on the beginning of that curve. And frankly, when I think about the companies I work with, they have a tremendous amount of data. But that's really only going to increase, as they realize they can actually develop value from it. And as you mentioned, first thing once it shows up on the balance sheet, suddenly everyone's going to get very excited about that. >> Yeah, it's so funny, right? 'Cause it basically does show up on the balance sheet of Facebook, and it shows up on the balance sheet of Google. But it's just not a line item. And I keep waiting for the tipping point, to happen where that becomes, a line item on the balance sheet. Because increasingly, that is arguably, the most important asset. 0r certainly the information and learning that goes around that data. >> You're right. And frankly, it's an insurable asset at this point. You can go to a company in a number of commercial settings and get ransomware insurance, for instance. So people are definitely recognizing the value of it if they're willing to insure it. >> Right, right. All right, Tim. Well, thank you very much for stopping by. And giving us an update really interesting times in, kind of taking care of business and really the core of the business, which is the data inside the business. So, important work. And thanks for taking a few minutes. >> All right, thanks. I'll be glad to be back anytime you want me. >> Alright, He's Tim. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Reporter: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston. Connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're coming to you today from our Palo Alto studios, talking about a really important topic. And that's data. And as we hear over and over and over, right data is the oil. Data is the new currency. Data is driving business decisions. Data drives AI. Data drives machine learning. Data is increasingly important. And we're still kind of waiting for it, to show up on balance sheets. Which is kind of implied in a lot of the big iterations, that we see in companies that are built on data. But one of the important things about data, is taking care of it. And we're excited to have our next guest here to talk about, some of the things you need to think about, and best practices in securing your data. Backing up your data, protecting your data. We're joined today by Tim Burlowski. He is the senior director, Product Management from Veritas. Joining us from remote. I believe you're in Minnesota. Tim, great to see you. >> Yep, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so let's just jump into it. So all we hear about is data these days. It's such an important topic, that is growing exponentially. And it's structured and it's unstructured. And it's so core to the business. And are you making database decisions? And are you getting enough data to drive your AI? And your machine learning algorithms? I mean, data is only exploding. You've been in this business for a long, a long, long time. I wonder if you can share your perspective, when you hear these things. more data is going to be created in the next 15 minutes. And wasn't the entire history of men before us? I'm making that up, but it's been quite an explosion. >> I know yeah, I know where you're coming from. And frankly, I don't even put that, in my presentation anymore. Because it's a lot like saying gravity exists, And things that you drop out, of a window will fall to the ground. Everyone's heard it. Everyone's aware of it. The numbers are just so staggering. You don't even know what to do with it. Like how many iPhones could you stack to the moon and back and then to Saturn? Doesn't make sense. But the truth is, we are seeing an explosion. Everyone knows it. We have to manage it better. Now for us, a lot of what we do, is in this data protection space. Where we want to make sure, that data is protected and always available. All of the data that's been created, and the growth in mission-critical applications. It's no longer seven to 20 mission-critical applications. It's hundreds and hundreds of mission-critical applications. Means you have to be ready, with a recent recovery if necessary. And you need to provide that data back to the consumer, as quickly as you possibly can. Because you've got people waiting on it. We've all got our apps on our phone, where we're looking at our bank account 24 seven. We don't wait until a teller appears at nine a.m anymore. It's not the world we live in. >> Right, I'm just curious if you've got some tailwinds, in terms of you're kind of, you've been in this market for a very long time. In terms of people finally realizing that their data, is really more of an asset and a liability. In the investments, to gather it, protect it, analyze it, have it ready for refresh it, If there's some problem. It's a positive investment towards, kind of revenue and strategic importance to the company, as opposed to kind of a back-office IT function, that we're kind of taking care of business because we have to. >> But that one really varies a lot by company. I see companies taking shortcuts and outsourcing, and then suddenly you'll see them in the news. And they discover that they had a major outage for a couple of days. And suddenly practices change very, very quickly. The relative comprehensive, sturdy and reliable infrastructure that people run today, sometimes lulls people into false security. And then you see a major airlines with a multi-day outage. And you go hmm, I think we missed a few steps in the process. So it sometimes takes those rude awakenings. But the companies who are really taking it seriously, and starting to practice pruning their data, examining their data for PII. So they meet various compliance regimes, and other in various states and countries. And starting to think about their backup stream, really being, how do we get a fast recovery? Instead of how do I make a copy, which I will never use again? Are really starting to drive a more efficient IT operation, when it comes to data protection. >> No, it's an interesting take, in reference to having some issue. Because we do a lot of stuff around security. Which is related to but not equal to this conversation. And one of the topics in security is that, most people have already been breached. It's just a function of how fast can you find out, and how fast can you minimize the damage? And how fast can you move on? Why are they breaching? They're breaching to get the data. So I would imagine, with this constant reading in the newspaper, of who was breached here there and everywhere, pretty much every day. That's got to be a huge driver, in terms of people kind of upping their game, and the sophistication, of the way they really think about data protection. >> It is and I'll tell you, I've had the misfortune, I would say. Of talking to customers who are in the middle of recovering, from a major ransomware malware attack. And it's a very difficult proposition. And what customers often discover is, they haven't practiced enough, they don't have enough of a DR plan present. We are certainly rising the occasion. Our products are sort of the last thing, that often stands between the customer, losing their data completely. And so we're looking at a number of technology innovations, that will enable them to store their data on immutable devices. And for the backup infrastructure, to be completely aware of that. Which we'll be announcing later this summer. Which we're very excited about. Of course, from our perspective of our appliance portfolio, we've always provided a couple of extra layers of security against intrusion detection, and intrusion prevention right out of the box. Because we know the backup infrastructure becomes this collection of the very most important data in your infrastructure. Because that's the thing you back up. And you want to restore. If there's ever any sort of manmade disaster or otherwise. >> Right. So I want to shift gears a little bit, and talk about kind of the evolution of the infrastructure kind of scene. If you will. With the rise of public clouds, with Amazon and Google and Microsoft, is sure. And then obviously, you tried into a data center. Lot of talk about HP discover, this week kind of going from edge to cloud and data center in the middle. So the environment in which these applications live, and these applications run, and where the data is, relative to those applications. Is evolved dramatically over the last, you probably have a much better time perspective than I do. Five years, 10 years. But it continues to accelerate, in this kind of Application-Centric World versus, kind of an Infrastructure Centric World. Just curious to get your take on, The kind of the challenges that presents to your company, and what you guys are trying to do to accomplish. And how do you see that continuing to evolve and get, not simpler but more complex over time? >> That is a very astute acknowledgement of what's going on in the industry. And I often call it the industry's getting weirder. I would have thought at some point, we'd sort of have Linux and Windows, and a couple of database vendors. And the truth is that database vendors exploded. And it's not just Linux anymore. It's containers. And it might be a container based on CentOS. And it might be container running in the cloud. Or it might be a simple function, like a lambda function running on nothing in AWS. And so this whole world has gotten a lot stranger. From my perspective, I think the biggest change for Veritas, has been a renewed focus on API's that we make public to customers, in ways that we can glue and stitch these systems together. Now, of course, it doesn't replace the deep integration, we do with companies like VMware, with Docker, as well as the the container ecosystem around. Open shift and some of those technologies. But from our perspective, we've had to be a little bit more prolific, in what we support. And the truth is, it's all files, it's all objects, it's all things we've done before. But they just keep bubbling up in new and different ways. >> Right, but what's interesting though, is you touch on all kinds of stuff there with Kubernetes and clouds and in containers. Is a lot of it's kind of ethereal, right? The whole idea of of a cloud-based infrastructure, is that you can bring it up and bring it down as you need it. You can adjust it as you go. And literally turn it off when you don't need it. And bring it back up. And then you add to that serverless. And this kind of increasing atomization, of all the different parts of compute. Kind of an interesting thing for you guys, to try to back up as these things are created and destructed. We hear these crazy stories of, automating Kubernetes to spin up tons of these things at a time and then bring them back back down. And then I'm curious too. Within that is also the open source. kind of challenge in continuing to have evolution in open source technologies, API's, et cetera. So it is getting weirder and weirder, on a number of fronts as you guys continue to evolve with the market. >> Absolutely, and all I'll tell you, you have to think about all technologies as being on a bridge. As I remind people, we have washing machines. They work really well but washboards still exist, even though it's a technology from 18th century, or beforehand. Now, they may be used as still do exist. Now, my point in this is, people need a bridge. Most enterprises run on an amazing amount of technology, they've developed as a stack over the last 10 to 15 years. And they can't immediately rewrite that, and put it all in a cloud container. So we're actually seeing a lot of use of containers, and Kubernetes with fairly heavy application stacks. When you think about something as heavy as, all have Oracle inside of a container. You can understand that, that's a big lift for container. And it's not ephemeral at all. Then it reaches out to storage, that has that persistence value. And that's where we come in. 'Cause we want to make sure that persistent storage, is always protected. And easily available to the customer for any recovery needs. >> Is great, so I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, to talk about regulations and compliance. 'Cause, regulatory requirements drive a lot of behavior and activity, and really oftentimes, are ahead of maybe the business prerogative to do things like provide backups, provide quick and dirty, quick and easy access. Because you needed it for, a public Freedom of Information Act request. Or you need it for some type of court type of activity. So I wonder if you can kind of talk about, how the regulatory environment, continues to evolve over time. And how does that impact, what you guys are doing in the marketplace? >> Great question. The biggest place is It's affected us, is customers are starting to think about privacy. And where do I have data which relates to, personally identifying information. And that's really driven a lot, by the European regulations around GDPR. Then we're seeing the California Privacy Act come in. And a number of other states are considering legislation in this area. In some ways, it's actually been a good news story for data protection and data management. Because people are starting to say, I should identify where the data is, I should figure out where the PII is. And I should make sure, I'm actually using my backups for the right purposes. Which is something we've always believed in. We've always thought, Hey, Mr. Customer, I see you're backing up an Oracle database for 10 years. What are you going to do with it in 10 years? Are you going to install Oracle seven and reboot it? It doesn't really add up to me. So, how can you get to a true archive, for that data you really need archive? And then for your backup set, how can you keep it lean and mean. And just keep it for the length of time you actually need it? Which for many customers, could be as little as 14, 15 days, maybe six months, maybe a year. But it's often not those extreme retentions people were thinking of, when they were building their tape based infrastructure 10 years ago. >> Right, that's funny. 'Cause as you mentioned, also I'm thinking of, is big data. Right in this constant kind of conversation. In the Big Data world is they keep everything forever, with the hopes that at some point in time, there may be a different algorithm or a different kind of process, you might run on that, but you didn't think about. Right kind of scheme on read versus scheme on right. But to your point, is that necessarily something that has to be backed up, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of policy driven activity. Than to drive the software to define what to back up, what you don't back up, how you back it up, how long you back it up? And a lot of kind of business decisions as opposed to technology decisions. >> Absolutely, that's been on the back of, the price of storing a bit of data, has declined over the last 10 years. An average 15 percent year over year. For a very long time. So people have ignored the problem. But the truth is, when you're really working at scale, there's a tremendous amount of waste. And we've identified for customers, using our data analytics technology. Millions of dollars of cost savings, where they were, both had storing files on, expensive primary tier one storage. And they were backing up those same, that same bit of information every single week. Even though it hadn't changed, or hadn't been read in seven plus years, and they couldn't find an owner for the information in the company. They literally didn't know why they had it. And I think people are starting to consider that. Especially in budget constraint times. >> Right, it's so funny, right? Sometimes it's such a simple answer, a friend one time had a startup, and he was doing contract management. This is 20 years ago. And I was like, how do you manage the complexity of contracts inside software. Again 20 years ago. And he said, Jeff, that's not it at all. We just need to know like, where is the contract? who signed it and when does it expire? And they built the business, on answering simple questions like that. It's sometimes the simple stuff that's the hard stuff. I want to shift gears a little bit Tim, on what bear toss dude in the market in terms of still having appliances? I'm sure a lot of people like weight appliances. Why are we still using appliances? This is a software defined world. And everything just runs on x86 architecture. You guys still have appliances, tell us a little bit about the why. And some of the benefits of having, kind of a dedicated hardware, software piece of equipment, versus just a pure software solution that sits on anybody's box. >> That's a great question. Thanks for asking. When I think about that world, you have to understand Veritas at its core is absolutely a software company. We build software and we preserve the choice and how the customer implements. When I say we preserve choice. We obviously still support old school Unix. We certainly have enormous investment in the x86 world, both on Windows and various Linux flavors. And of course, you can run those same That same software in the cloud. And of course, you can run it inside of a virtualized infrastructure. So we always like to preserve choice. Now why did we create the appliance business, it's frankly because customers asked us to. The thing that made storing backups on disk affordable, was this technology known as deduplication. Which at its heart is just a fancy kind of compression, That's very, very good at copies of data, where there's a lot of blocks that are have been seen before. And so we don't store them if we've seen them before. We simply store the ones that are new and fresh. So from our perspective, customers said, "we want this technology." And the market really moved away, from general purpose solutions on servers to do that. Because it was very hard to build something, that could have a very high throughput, very high memory, and at the same time, could give excellent support for random access reads, when the customer actually needed to read that data. And so we created a purpose built appliances as a result. And what we discovered in the the process was, there were a lot of pieces that were actually fairly hard in the enterprise. So when a customer would describe, the purchasing process of their typical solution before appliances, they would talk about, filing tickets with the server team. Filing tickets with the storage team. Filing tickets with security team. And sometimes taking six or nine months, to get a piece of equipment ready to install the backup software on the floor. Whereas with ours, they placed an order, it showed up on the dock, as soon as it when it was in the rack, they were ready to go and working independently. Now while we have a great and thriving appliance business, we're very, very proud of, we always preserve choice at Veritas. And even though that's the business I represent, I would make sure our customers always understand, that we're interested in the best platform for the customer. So that's our basic perspective. If you want to go deeper, let me know where you have questions. (chuckles) >> Well, I'm curious on the process, when there's a fail, when there's attack, when there's ransomware, whatever. When you need to go back to your backup. What are some of the things that your approach enables, or what are kind of the typical stumbling blocks that are the hardest things to overcome. That people miss when they're planning for that. Or thinking about it. That kind of rear their ugly heads, when the time comes that, oh, I guess we need to go back to a backup version. >> Yeah, and I'll break that input into this disaster recovery or restore process. And then also the process of backup. So when you think about that disaster recovery, and I'll use ransomware as that piece of it. Because that's the real kind of disaster, when you're looking at equipment in the infrastructure, which has been wiped clean. That's a worst case scenario for most IT managers. When you think about that situation, we've built into our appliances first of all, a hardened Linux OS. Meaning we've shrank down that OS as much as we possibly could. Second, we've added role-based access protection. To make sure that you simply can't log in and perform activities which you're not privileged to perform. And then we have intrusion protection software, intrusion detection software. To ensure that even for those zero day attacks, that we may not even be aware of when we release our software, that the system is hardened. Of course, you have firewalls and STIG rules, STIG or rules are DoD standard, for hardening Linux based devices. So we've got a hardened device. And I was talking to a customer, in a different part of the world this week. Where they described having a data center, where everything had been wiped. And there's one thing left there, their NetBackup appliances. And they were then able to then take that, and use that for the restore. Because that was a real vault for their data. Now, the flipside is, that's a rare day. So that is truly a black swan event. When you think about day to day, and we're running a data protection operation, really think about speed of backup. And for us being able to take something that's neatly tuned for the hardware, the operating system, the tuning, the net backup software is all configured out of the box and ready to go. And the data protection folks, can be independently able to drive that is a great value. Because essentially, you have Lego style building blocks. Where you can order device, it always performs the same. And three years from now, you don't have to redesign it. And take your expensive IT staff and ask them to figure out what's the best solution. We've just got another one off the shelf for you, another series in the model. >> Right >> Now, as you said earlier, the world's getting weirder. It definitely is. So we'll be branching off into what kind of appliances we offer. And you'll see some announcements later, in the year where we'll be offering some reference architecture approaches, which will be a little different than what we offer today. Just to meet the customer demand that's out there. >> Yeah, that's great. I mean, 'cause as you said, it's all about customer choice. And meeting the customer where they want to meet. But before I let you go, this is pretty interesting conversation. I want to get your perspective, as someone who's been in the business, for a really long time. And as you look at opportunities around, machine learning and artificial intelligence, and you look at kind of the I'm going to steal your line about things getting weirder. And use over and over. But as they continue to get weirder and weirder, where do you see kind of the evolution is, you kind of sit back, not necessarily in the next six months or so. But where do you see growth opportunities and places you want to go? That better still out in front of you, even though you've been doing this for many, many years? >> Well, that's a great question. So this is yet another wave. And that's often how I look at it. Meaning, there's a wave of Unix. There's a wave of windows. There's wave of virtualization. And each of these technologies, brought some real shifts to our environment. I think, from my perspective, the next big wave is dealing with ransomware. And some of these compliance requirements we talked about earlier. And then I can't get away from this big data, AI piece and my son's studying computer science in college. And that's a weekly conversation for us. What's new in that front? Because I think we're going to see, a lot more technology developed there. We are just truly on the beginning of that curve. And frankly, when I think about the companies I work with, they have a tremendous amount of data. But that's really only going to increase, as they realize they can actually develop value from it. And as you mentioned, first thing once it shows up on the balance sheet, suddenly everyone's going to get very excited about that. >> Yeah, it's so funny, right? 'Cause it basically does show up on the balance sheet of Facebook, and it shows up on the balance sheet of Google. But it's just not a line item. And I keep waiting for the tipping point, to happen where that becomes, a line item on the balance sheet. Because increasingly, that is arguably, the most important asset. 0r certainly the information and learning that goes around that data. >> You're right. And frankly, it's an insurable asset at this point. You can go to a company in a number of commercial settings and get ransomware insurance, for instance. So people are definitely recognizing the value of it if they're willing to insure it. >> Right, right. All right, Tim. Well, thank you very much for stopping by. And giving us an update really interesting times in, kind of taking care of business and really the core of the business, which is the data inside the business. So, important work. And thanks for taking a few minutes. >> All right, thanks. I'll be glad to be back anytime you want me. >> Alright, He's Tim. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the booth covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet. >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of smartsheet engaged here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, Jeff. Rick. We're joined by Anna Griffin. She is the CMO of smartsheet. Thanks so much for coming on the Cube. Thank you, guys for having me appreciate it. So you were your pretty new to this company. Joined in April. I'd love to hear, but you've also had an illustrious career in marketing. You've worked summers and big names, including Apple and Nortel and and Saturn. And you've also worked for Land's end and a whole bunch of different varied career. What attracted you to smart? >>She You know, it was interesting when I first got the call about smartsheet. I had never heard of it. And the way that it was positioned to me was super intriguing. I realized it was one of those a category that's just not established, but a category that has the potential to be the next big thing. And we're not even the potential. I mean, it will be the next big thing and, you know, I met with that was intriguing. But then, you know, I met with the executive team, and it was a perfect combination of a killer product, but a killer company. I can't tell you how special the leadership of this company is and their authenticity and their passion and their drive and their belief. It's so contagious. There's no way you would not want to be a part of it. So on, then, the privilege to be able to tell this company's story I feel like it is the best kept story. Not only in Seattle, potentially the world on I plan to tell the story and And what a gift it was. A great opportunity is a marketer toe have this type of opportunity. >>Well, we're gonna get into how you're going to tell the story. Okay, See you later. But so now you've been here a few months. It is your first ever engaged. What? What does he what are your impressions? >>Well, I wish I had been thio previous engaged to have something to compare it to. But the fact that this conference has doubled in size 4000 customers here and it's only its third show. I will tell you in the industry I've worked, you know, managing events teams for many, many, many years. Not a lot of conferences grow at this size, and Soto have 4000 customers here who are zealots. They are their passion for the product and what it's doing and what it's doing for there. Not only their companies, but their own personal careers. There isn't an empowerment story through their mouse that will just inspire you. So it's It's incredible. The energy here is really, really especially. >>Feel it, too. Way See >>it a lot of the smaller conferences, early days. That's why they're fun to be. Here were last year, when those 2000 it was adjacent to the to the office across the across the water. Exactly, but it is a really passion community, and, you know, Thio here, literal, literal cheers and claps at features. Well, it's great to see, like copy paste from one road to the other because it's clearly something that means something these people and that they have asked for and the company is delivered and really demonstrates, is listening to engage these crazy people. It's a great asset >>wave. That listening thing is huge, and I feel like that's one of the things. And I think it's why there is a CMO now. That's why I get the privilege to be the first CMO is because the customers said way need more awareness of this company. We need our our executives. We need lines of business leaders. We need i t to know who you are and the magic of what you do. We need awareness is gonna make it that much easier for us to get much wider adoption across these companies. If people know who you are and they know you know what you're capable of. So listening. That is one of the number one things we've heard. It's like awareness. They wanted awareness. So because it'll help make them more successful. So I think that was the catalyst for Okay, let's get a cheap Marty Officer, Let's go build >>that about you. What are you gonna do? What it wanted? Some of your top priority is to tell the story and to build brand awareness. >>Yeah, well, um well, you're the first thing was to really kind of Titan are positioning again. It's a great great products make great brands, and this is a great product company. But man were starting to do so much ward than just killer products. We're really getting into this enablement this, um right, transforming companies. And so I wanted to make sure we're positioned properly. And we're really positioning mawr in a more transformative altitude and the capabilities of what we can do. We have found we've spent way too much time talking about technology versus people versus what technology and people are going to do together. And that is the magic of what smartsheet does. It really takes platform a common platform that basically integrates with the Czech investment that you've already made with the systems of record that you already have pools that data out and then allows the people I work with that data all in a common really time, you know, application. And when you can marry those two things together that tech and people, that's when one plus one equals three. And so we call that that three is what we really call achievement again, Like everybody in our space is work work, work, task management, project management, the capability of smart shit Yeah, we do all that, too. But when you play in that transformative altitude, we're in a bling achievement and it enterprise wide level and achieve it like what your business can achieve. But this is the more special part. And this is where I get excited. Did you feel to tell this story is the achievement happens at a personal level to like again? I'm telling you when I talk to customers and I see what they're doing right, you don't understand. You have changed my career. I'm doing more strategic work. I am. I am seen differently in my company. I champion this, like all of a sudden, I am leading big teams. I went from this to this, and there they're empowerment is so big and so really that last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. And that's what this product does. And so job one was position. That's properly so we can tell that type of story and really put our solutions in that kind of light because that's what it does on then job to is to launch the campaign launches to the world. So we just launched two weeks ago, and it's a slow roll. I mean, we have hundreds of assets, it in place. So if I love seeing us on television, you know I love seeing is deeply in digital. I love some of the new interesting things that that we could do in media. But when our customers are saying that, you know they're seeing it a CMO like you high from it. Yeah, So it's fun. So jump to launch the campaign and the campaign is, well, we call the campaign can do you know we're positioning the brand as the platform for enterprise achievement. Number one Smart sheet is a platform, I think a lot of people, you know as it's grown. I mean, it truly is a platform, and it really is enterprise strong and wide. It's skills which is important, but its scales So everybody and a company can align organizational alignment to truly achieve something bigger aligned organizations do not fill. And so that's the That's the power. But I digress. >>No question that way >>you know, one of the great legs of your of your go to market strategy and your lead jen is your licensing formula, which enables me as the Spartan sheet licensee to engage lots of people, many outside my own, not by my own team, but my own company. And let them have access to this tool. What a smart, smart waiver. Whoever came up with that licensing strategy? What a great way to introduce the opportunity to use this transformational tool to ongoing and broad audience. >>Yes, your table is so exciting. When I was in the interview process and I was riding on a plane and clearly I had met with the company and I heard somebody in front of me was a consultant, one of the consulting firms who had met a complete stranger on the plane. And somehow Smartsheet came up that she was going you got Oh, my gosh, Smartsheet. This is like she was going. This is the best kept secret. We're using it with all of our clients. We heard about it through one of our clients. That wasn't one of them. We'll use it like Oh, my gosh, this is the game changer. I'm like putting >>my here in between the wayward. I put my hand it as it did You just say smart shape. >>Literally six people on the airplane, random people like, Oh, my gosh, we use it to It was the most surreal experience, and that was when I knew, like, Okay, I've got to be a part of this Coast special. Did a lot of people are now just getting that sensation of what this thing is capable of. And, >>well, it's funny to your personal achievement story. Reminds me of any time you know you got a new software company and whether, you know, centered alloy Dorian, Why, when those guys come in, they're making a big bet right there. Some new partner's gonna bet. Bet their career on this new technology. We've heard from a number of people how betting their career internally with smartsheet has changed their position in the company. Yes, for that today, a couple of times. So clearly you know it. It is an enablement platform for someone to, you know, grab on to the to the rocket ship and ride this Marchi wave thio new and bigger, better things, >>but but also her point about just even just participating in the technology. And then they're able to, as you said, work on more strategic work, be able to do more things in their jobs that have been catapulted them to new job. So it's not even necessarily betting on smartsheet bringing in smart cheat. But it is just just using smart sheet and then therefore they have more brain time. Yes, yes, oh, engagement we're talking about, >>right, right? You know, it is because we've been talking a lot about you know, some of the really scary statistics about how disengaged people are at work and how many people are ready to quit their job. And, you know, they've got all these blocks. Is menial roadblocks in their day to day existence that are that are negatively impacting their ability to want to do their job or but actually just want to be there anymore. And so it's It's like seems maybe to the outside, looking in some of these things by seem low value, but they're actually tremendous value. If you're removing these roadblocks so I can get my job done >>totally and love your job, you love your job. But know that the work that you do matters and I think so many people have lost that feeling like there's something about working and I don't know if it's the corporate world. But it has become such a grind, and that rare opportunity would like. I love what I do, and I know that it matters. It's a gift, and this is a platform that enables bad in people. And so I think that's when the fascinating things I've been spending a lot of time on the road with customers and I was at a very big multi national, big global agricultural company. And, um, Singer, Actually, I'm watching WAY Bet with probably 200 different Just what I would call power users across seven different you know, roll types like from I t toe hsc thio, you name it. And, um, every single one of them is like art. We're doing more like we are in power, like the engagement, the employee engagement in that company through the roof because every single person felt like were hurt. I have ownership, you know. I'm doing work. I'm taking it to a new level. And so you know, sure, there is a Thanh of operational efficiencies that are gonna come out of working with smartsheet. But I think the one to watch is what's gonna happen when your workforce is truly engaged and taking ownership of the work. Those were the good. Those are the companies that are going to have a higher retention. They're gonna have you. They're going to see something in that in that talent area. So this is more than just We're getting more work done and return on investment of our our our systems, like you're going to see you know what happens when your when your employees are empowered. >>Well, the word you didn't use his innovation that I firmly believe everyone wants more innovation, their company. >>But how do you do >>it? One of those? I think it's really simple. Lever on that is you just get more people more access to more data and then the ability to do something about it and open it up to all the smart people that see problem to different prisons in different opportunities. And that's where you start to get in. A leverage is amazing talent that you already have inside your four walls. >>But what is interesting about innovation, as I think sometimes the world so over rotates that innovation is gonna be that next killer line of code or it's going to be and they forget that the power of practical innovation like it's that Siri's of small collected things at out up, allowing your entire, you know, employee population to feel like they have the power to innovate us. That every person in the company has the power because the power practical innovation can lead to something Justus Big is the big already. >>Dev. Ops has shown that that's a better way anyway, right in software development, with the grand idea with the market development plan and the product development plan and the three year build cycle that's does not win against constant religious narrative improvement. Improvement, improvement, improvement, improvement. Yes, >>indeed. So you and you said this earlier and I saw it on your Lincoln to the last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. How do you describe the culture at smart shape now? I mean, we've talked about the evangelical customers Yeah, about with in smartsheet itself. >>It's, um it's pretty special. Know what you're gonna say? Of course. And see him? I was gonna say special, but it is. It is rare when people everyone comes to work with this belief like this true belief that they are They have the power to influence something and touch something that's going to do something great for other people. And I think that's what eyes, the most specialised. They they're not just doing it for themselves. They know they're doing it for others, like they know they love these guys. Every single person in the company loves that customer like the love ability, They love the customer, and they feel like they've got to do their best work so their customer can do something great with it. You know, they really understand that, and that's Ah, it's an incredible place to wanna work when you, when you feel that way but toe love your customers. I think that's why our customers love us back and to be loved. You must first love and because they love you know, it's it's >>rare. Well, congratulations. It sounds like it's a great role and you're in the right place. And I can't talk to you next year and hear more about can do and and all of the wonderful things you're doing. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm Rebecca Knight. That wraps up the cubes. Interviews. Stay tuned for our rap of engaged 2019 you're watching the Cube

>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the booth covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet. >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of smart. She engaged here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, Jeff. Rick. We're joined by Anna Griffin. She is the CMO of smartsheet. Thanks so much for coming on the Q. Thank you, guys for having me appreciate it. So you were your pretty new to this company joined in April. I'd love to hear, but you've also had an illustrious career in marketing. You've worked several big names, including Apple and Nortel and and Saturn. And you've also worked for Land's end and a whole bunch of different varied career. What attracted you to smart? She You know, it >>was interesting when I first got the call about smartsheet. I had never heard of it, and the way that it was positioned to me was super intriguing. I realized it was one of those a category that's just not established, but a category that has the potential to be the next big thing. And we're not even the potential. I mean, it will be the next big thing and you know, I met with that was intriguing. But, you know, I met with the executive team and it was a perfect combination of a killer product, but a killer company. I can't tell you how special the leadership of this company is and their authenticity and their passion and their drive and their belief. It's so contagious. There's no way you would not want to be a part of it. So on, then, the privilege to be able to tell this company's story I feel like it is the best kept story not only in Seattle, potentially the world on I plan to tell the story and and what a gift. But what a great opportunity is. A marketer toe have this type of opportunity. >>Well, we're gonna get into how you're going to tell the story, okay, a little bit later, but so now you've been here a few months. It is your first ever engaged What? What does he what are your impressions? >>Well, I wish I had been thio previous engaged to have something to compare it to. But the fact that this conference has doubled in size 4000 customers here and it's only its third show. I will tell you in the industry who have worked, you know, managing events teams for many, many, many years. Not a lot of conferences grow at this size, and Soto have 4000 customers here who are zealots. They are their passion for the product and what it's doing and what it's doing for there. Not only their companies, but their own personal careers. There isn't an empowerment story through their mouse that will just inspire you. So it's It's incredible. The energy here is really, really especially. >>Feel it, too. Way See >>it a lot of the smaller conferences early days. That's why they're fun to be. Here were last year, when those 2000 it was adjacent to the to the office across the across the water. Exactly, but it is a really passion community, and you know, Thio here, literal, literal cheers and claps at features. It's great. It's like copy paste from one road to the other because it's clearly something that means something these people and that they have asked for and the company is delivered and really demonstrates, is listening to engage these crazy people. It's a great asset >>wave. That listening thing is huge, and I feel like that's one of the things. And I think it's why there is a CMO now. Why get the privilege to be the first CMO is because the customers said way need more awareness of this company. We need our our executives. We need lines of business leaders. We need i t to know who you are and the magic of what you do. We need awareness is gonna make it that much easier for us to get much wider adoption across these companies. If people know who you are and they know you know what you're capable of. So listening. That is one of the number one things we've heard. It's like awareness. They wanted awareness, so because >>it'll help make them >>more successful. So I think that was the >>catalyst for OK, let's get achieve, Marty. Officer, Let's go build that about you. What are you gonna do? What were some of your top priority is to tell the story and to build brand awareness. Yeah, well, um well, you're the first thing >>was to really kind of Titan are positioning again. It's a great great products make great brands, and this is a great product company. But man were starting to do so much more than just killer products were really getting into this enablement this, right, transforming companies. And so I wanted to make sure we're positioned properly. And we're really positioning mawr in a more transformative altitude and the capabilities of what we could do. You know, we have found we've spent way too much time talking about technology versus people versus what technology and people are going to do together. And that is the magic of what Smartsheet does. It really takes a platform, a common platform that basically integrates with the tech investments. And you've >>already made with the systems of record that you already have pools that data out and then allows >>the people I work with that data all in a common really time application. And when >>you can marry >>those two things together, that tech and people, that's when one plus one equals three. And so we call that that three is what we really call achievement again, like >>everybody in our space >>is work work, work, task management, project management, the capability of smart shit. Yeah, we do all that too. But when you're playing that transformative altitude, we're in Ebeling achievement and it enterprise wide level and achievement, like what your business can achieve. But this is the more special part, and this is where I get excited. Did you feel to tell this story is the achievement happens at a personal level to like again? I'm telling you when I talk to customers and I see what they're doing right, you don't understand. You have changed my career. I'm doing more strategic work. I am. I am seeing differently in my company. I champion this, like all of a sudden I am leading big teams. I went from this to this, and there they're empowerment is so big and so really that last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. And that's what this product does. And so job one was position. That's properly so we can tell that type of story and really put our solutions in that kind of light because that's what it does on then job to is to launch the campaign launches to the world. So we just launched two weeks ago and it's a slow roll. I mean, we have hundreds of assets it in place. So if I love seeing us on television, you know I love seeing is deeply in digital. I love some of the new interesting things that that we can do in media. But when our customers are saying that you know they're seeing it, a CMO like you gonna get a high from it. Yeah, So it's fun job to launch the campaign, >>and the campaign is, well, we call the campaign can do you know we're positioning >>the brand as the platform for enterprise achievement. Number one Smart sheet is a platform, I think a lot of people, you know as it's grown. I mean, it truly is a platform, and it really is enterprise strong and wide. It's skills which is important, but its scales So everybody and a company can align organizational alignment to truly achieve something bigger aligned organizations do not fill. And so that's the That's the power. But I digress. >>No question that way >>you know, one of the great legs of your of your go to market strategy and your lead Jen is your licensing formula, which enables me as the Spartan sheet licensee to engage lots of people many outside my own, not by my own team, but my own company. And let them have access to this tool. What a smart, smart waiver. Whoever came up with that licensing strategy? What a great way to introduce the opportunity to use this transformational tool to ongoing and broad audience. Yes, >>your table is so exciting. >>When I was in the interview process and I was riding on a plane and clearly I had met with the company and I heard somebody in front of me was a consultant, one of the consulting firms who had met a complete stranger on the plane. And somehow Smartsheet came up that she was going you got Oh, my gosh, Smartsheet. >>This is like she was going. This is the best kept secret. We're using it with all of our clients. We heard about it through one of our clients That wasn't one of them. We'll use it like Oh, my gosh, this is the game changer. I'm like putting my here in between the wayward I put my hand in as it did You just say smart shape. Literally six people on the airplane, random people like, Oh, my gosh, we use it to. It was the >>most surreal experience, and that was when I knew, like, Okay, I've got to be a part of this Coast special. Did a lot of people are now just getting that sensation of what this thing is capable of. >>And, well, it's funny to your personal achievement story. Reminds me of any time you know you got a new software company and whether you know, center Deloitte or even why, when those guys come in, they're making a big bet right there. Some new partner's gonna bet. Bet their career on this new technology. We've heard from a number of people how betting their career internally with smartsheet has changed their position in the company. Yes, we find that today a couple of times so clearly you know it. It is an enablement platform for someone to, you know, grab on to the to the rocket ship and ride this Marchi wave thio new and bigger, better things, >>but but also her point about just even just participating in the technology. And then they're able to, as you said, work on more strategic work, be able to do more things in their jobs that have been catapulted them to new job. So it's not even necessarily betting on smartsheet and bringing in smart cheat. But it is just just using smart sheet and then therefore they have more brain time. Yes, yes, oh, engagement we're talking about, >>right, right? You know, it is because we've been talking a lot about you know, some of the really scary statistics about how disengaged people are at work and how many people are ready to quit their job. And, you know, they've got all these blocks. Is menial roadblocks in their day to day existence that are that are negatively impacting their ability to want to do their job or but actually just want to be there anymore. And so it's It's like it seems, maybe to the outside, looking in some of these things by seem low value, but they're actually tremendous value if you're removing these roadblocks so I could get my job done >>totally and love your job, you love >>your job. But know that the work that you do matters and I think so many people have lost that feeling like there's something about working and I don't know if it's the corporate world, but it has become such a grind and that rare opportunity. We feel like I love what I do, and I know that it matters like it's a gift and this is a platform that enables bad in people. And so I think that's when the fascinating things I've been spending a lot of time on the road with customers and I was at a very big multi national, big global agricultural company. And, um, Singer, Actually, I'm watching WAY Bet with probably 200 different Just what I would call power users across seven different you know, roll types like from I t toe hsc thio, you name it. And, um, every single one of them is like art. We're doing more like we are empowered, like the engagement, the employee engagement in that company, through the roof because every single person felt like were hurt. I have ownership, you know. I'm doing work. I'm taking it to a new level. And so you know, sure, there is a Thanh of operational efficiencies that are gonna come out of working with smart shape, But I think the one to watch is what's gonna happen when your workforce is truly engaged and taking ownership of the work. >>Those were the good. Those are the companies that are >>going to have a higher retention they're gonna have >>They're going to see >>something in that in that talent area. So this is more than just We're getting more work done and return on investment of our our our systems like you're going to see you know, what happens when your when your employees are empowered. >>Well, the word you didn't use his innovation that I firmly believe everyone wants more innovation, their company. >>But how do you do >>it? One of those? I think it's really simple. Lever on that is you just get more people more access to more data and then the ability to do something about it and open it up to all the smart people that see problem to different prisons in different opportunities. And that's where you start to get in. A leverage is amazing talent that you already have inside your four walls. >>But what is interesting about >>innovation is I think sometimes the world so over rotates that innovation is gonna be that next killer line of code, or it's going to be and they forget that the power of practical innovation like it's that Siri's of small collected things at out up, allowing your entire, you know, employee population to feel like they have the power to innovate us. That every person in the company has the power because the power practical innovation can lead to something Justus biggest the big already >>Dev Ops has shown that that's a better way anyway, right in software development, with the grand idea with the market development plan and the product development plan in the three year build cycle that's does not win against constant religious narrative improvement. Improvement, improvement, improvement, improvement. Yes, >>indeed. So you and you said this earlier and I saw it on your Lincoln to the last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. Yes. How do you describe the culture at smart shape now that we've done talked about the evangelical customers Yeah, about with in smartsheet itself, it's, um it's pretty >>special. Know what you're gonna say? Of course. And see if I was >>gonna say special. But it is. It is rare >>when people everyone comes to work with this belief like this true belief that they are. They have the power to influence something and touch something that's going to do something great for other people. And I think that's what is the most special is they? They're not just doing it for themselves. They know they're doing it for others, like they know they love these guys. Every single person in the company loves that customer like the love ability, They love the customer and they feel like they've got to do their best work. So their customer, I can do something great >>with it. You know, they really understand that. >>And that's Ah, it's an incredible place to wanna work when you, when you feel that way but toe love your customers. I think that's why our customers love us back and to be loved. You must first love >>and because they love you know, it's it's rare. Well, congratulations. It sounds like it's a great role and you're in the right place. And I can't talk to you next year and hear more about can do and and all of the wonderful things you're doing. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm Rebecca Knight. That wraps up the cubes. Interviews. Stay tuned for our rap of engaged 2019 you're watching the Cube

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Oh, good afternoon and welcome back as we continue our coverage live here on the cue from Mosconi North in beautiful San Francisco. Clouds of melted away In a way, of course, we're still talking about hybrid Multi. They're not going anywhere. In fact, there are very much entrenched into this show. John Wall's Justin Warren. Glad to have You with us. Joined now by Kevin Chats. Camera. Who's the vice president of Product management Enterprise and SP Solutions of Dental Technologies. Kevin. Good to see you again, sir. Nice to see you, too. Two shots in one week on the Q. We love that and Wait Holmes, who's the director of technical product management at Veum? Where? Wade, Good to see you this afternoon. >> But if you also >> so this this is kind of your party here, VM where? I mean, just give me your impression so far. First off, just kind of what you're sensing that the vibe here of the show and, ah, the kind of work that you're getting done. >> So the vibe here is excitement. I mean, I think everyone's excited about a lot of the announcements around either probably Pacific and how we're redefining the V's Fair platform and Tan Xue and now these capabilities on how these capabilities are going to be able to enhance our capabilities of our cloud provider partners. So I'm part of our club fighter salt for business unit, who specifically makes products and solutions for our cloud provider V, C P P program. And I think couldn't beam or excitement. And they've been a crescendo the past few years and be anywhere and b m world. And I think this has been one of the best ever. >> If the waves hitting the shore big time now. So you you talk about cloud providers about service providers. I mean, one of the same. Or Or how do you guys define that now? Or how do you separate that? >> Yeah, I think these terms are largely used interchangeably. To a large degree, I think if we look att at the cloud industry in the provider industry over the last several years, maybe about 5 to 7 years ago, there was a belief from every single cloud provider that they needed to build a scaled platform like a W s like Microsoft Azure like Google Compute. And that they were all in the business of a race to building the most robust, most scalable, most feature rich, most differentiated cloud that was largely erased the bottom from an economics perspective. And I think just about all of all of the service providers and now these cloud providers that we work with have really moved to a different model. What they've recognized is first off. The race to the hyper scale is not a profitable business that you want to race against. Number two. Ah, the transition for large enterprise I t small enterprise medium business to the cloud is so complex that it's not a game of building clouds and not a game of building platforms. It's a game of building practices at this point and cloud providers or building practices that allow them to find their own niche and differentiation off differentiated offerings. Whether that be on Prem Private Cloud hosted Private Cloud and then partnering with the hyper scale er's for the massively scaled multi tenant cloud world. And when we start to realize that this managed offering these cloud practices are there to help the enterprise and small medium business in their transition to the public cloud in transition to cloud and moving towards more managed I t offerings. What we're finding is the reemergence of these cloud providers in a meaningful way, starting to bridge the gap of skill, set, mismatches and expertise. Mismatches at Enterprise I t just doesn't have to embrace cloud technology. >> Yeah, for a long time there, there was the cloud Geraghty, who were saying that the public cloud is the only way this is gonna happen. Everything's going to be there. And some some of us I would count myself among them was a little bit skeptical about that. That approach to things and a lot of it with a lot of the pressure on on service providers was you don't even bother getting into the cloud business. Just shut up shop and go home. This is never going to be a good idea for you to compete in this at all. And it sounds like that that some of these providers have actually gone. You know what we've We've got a viable business here. There are customers here who need things done that we do really well that are not available out in public Cloud. So what are some of the things that some of the things that you're hearing from these cloud cloud providers, that that they are finding from customers that they value, that they not finding anywhere else? >> So I grew 100% that the club wider there, find their business is still growing, and it's due to their expertise. Is Kevin said, that the building practices they understand enterprise customers? Veum, Where business? They understand the platform that they're running the enterprise and are able to provide additional differentiated service's while leverage in the technology that the enterprise they're utilizing in their own data centers. So it's able to pride value out of service is with the same platform that air using in their own premises and providing those capability of same platform in a cloud model. So, given a pragmatic way for enterprises to be able to migrate to a cloud in a hybrid cloud, >> are there specific practices you noticing that is that kind of stand out as being particularly common? >> Yeah, s so I think that through the answer is yes, right? And the answer is that vertical expertise is king here, right? Understanding the industries in which the cloud platforms get deployed and how those industries consume. Resource is the use cases. How they monetize their business is key for success. But I think that what we where we've lived over the last several years is that the building blocks for all of these vertical industries, the only uniform way you had to do it was with the massively scaled public cloud providers. The hyper scale er's what we're doing now, Adele Technologies Cloud is we're enabling a consistent set of building blocks for all of these vertical industries that all of these vertical X three experts in the vertical industries across the cloud providers can then bring a common building block and go address the complex problems of building the use cases, building the monetization models, building the differentiated feature set. >> So I mean, can you give me an example? I mean, what you talking about? It's like if you're going about health care versus transportation versus manufacturing, some things that were going to a different way, we're going to slice this That's right. It's a different >> set of ecosystem partners. It's a different set of vertical applications, a different set of problems. It's different set of monetization models across the board, right? You know, retail has very specific requirements around Leighton See sensitivity and the need to be able to address micro transactions. Security capabilities of those transactions or what not, Health care is governed by hip on various other legislative. When you build in Europe, you have, ah, various data protection and privacy implications to keep in mind. It's right, so all of this is not typically available in public Cloud Public Cloud is built for a lowest common denominator. One size fits all, and then you come bring differentiation. On top of that now is enterprise. I T organizations start to migrate their workloads to Public Cloud. They're looking for consistency in terms of how they've lived before and how they work before how they've operated before. How do they migrate those applications, right? It's not I'm building everything natively for public cloud is that I have an entire set of applications that were designed in my enterprise i d environment that I just want to find a new way to operate in VM wears a consistent abstraction. Layers is really the path forward, So DT Cloud on Deli emcee and TT Cloud leveraging the public cloud providers in the V M wear abstraction with both feet spheres. Well, it's vey cloud foundations, eyes really a commonality that they can now the uses a foundational building block for all their service is >> yes. So where one of the things that a lot of customers have invested over a decade or Maur envy em where? And they have a lot of processes and tools and skills that they have invested in. And it sounds like for some of these cloud providers specializing in a particular industry, that there's a risk there that you will end up with building blocks that, yes, they're customized for one particular thing. But now I have to operate them a little bit differently. And now I've got a lot of different ways of doing things, and particularly as a provider, then that that adds cost. And I want to try to get some of those costs out there because they think that influences my margin. So is the choice. Of'em were one way of dealing with that because I can maintain that same consistent way of managing things. >> Absolutely. And that's key to some of the work that VM wear and Dell has been working together on two. Allow for Kevin Mention, Adele Technology Cloud Platform, which the baseline of that is being more cloud foundation. So been ableto have that homogeneous operational model, and Mona's data plane set is the same V sphere and XXV sand based originality perspective. So the operational model, whether it's in the providers infrastructure or whether it's on premises within enterprise is similar. >> And I think there's even 1/3 vector to this, which is, um, yeah, one public cloud provider is not gonna win. All of the public cloud providers are going to exist, and the scale of a Microsoft azure and the scale of an AWS on a scale of a Google compute put them in position to continue to lead this industry forward. And it's it's difficult to bet on one horse, right? So the GMC model on the DT Cloud model allows us to be able to scale across all of these different cloud providers and as an enterprise organization that's making specific decisions based on region or based on other financials that some of these workloads are going to say in AWS, and some of them are going to sit in Microsoft Azure, etcetera, etcetera is a common abstraction across all of them. >> But at that point, I mean the fact that you're talking about, um, vertical practices, right? Verticals having practices that might be unique to their particular industry. And now you're talking about them deciding that they might all flowed work Thio, maybe an azure. Maybe in Google. Maybe I'd be it. Whatever, Um, I mean multiple complexities for you in dealing with that because you're gonna be the translator, right? You've got to be. You've got to be multi lingual, not only within in the cloud world, but also in a vertical world too. Right? So tough road for you guys to provide that kind of flexibility and that kind of knowledge. >> Oh, I mean, that's the key to the software and solutions that GM was providing and allowing for solutions and sat space capabilities to provide a modernise, softer, defined capabilities across clouds or a and be able to manage things across, such as cost in via cloud health and other manage service's capabilities by our software platform and then be ableto have this. These capabilities in the Bean Imlay consumed by providers and turnkey fashion by utilizing del technologies, bx rail are and VCF one VX rail and having us all package together, and so that providers no longer have to focus on building a core infrastructure. But they're now able to focus on that integration layer. Focus on the additional higher level service is that are able to stitch together the use this multi cloud environment >> decision logic that our customers have. It's just so complex, and I think that the message that we've heard loud and clear from them is that they feel like once they're in particular ecosystem, they're locked into that ecosystem. And the more that we can do that give them flexibility to bring these ecosystems together and leverage the benefits and the capabilities and the regional and geo location of just about all the different ecosystems that exists and build their own ecosystems. On top of that, especially if you're a cloud provider, is really what they're looking to do. And when the foundational building blocks all look different, the integration look different the automation look different. The orchestration look different in the storage. Later look different. It's just It was impossible, right? It's really on us to provide an abstraction to make that easy for them to accomplish their business. >> Consistent foundation is critical, and that's what we're bringing through the cloud provider today. >> One thing that has changed from from technology of 12 12 15 20 years ago is the consumption model that cloud has provided. S. So what are you seeing around service providers, providing that pretty much you have to provide if your cloud provided you have to provide some kind of consumption model because that's what people have in their minds when they think about about Cloud it is. It's not just about the technology side of things. Actually, we're out the business operations about, you know, the financing and the funding models of things. What are you seeing with the cloud providers and service providers? How are they changing the way that they allow people to finance the buy of this infrastructure? >> So that's one of the pieces that, in being where Rendell is working together to allow for not just software, which through the visa program all of our software solutions are consumed through a subscription like model. So it's pay as you go, but also be able to consume hardware and consume the turnkey patches package so that VCF on Vieques rail and the Cloud Provider platform can be consumed in a pay as you go subscription model, which is a way that providers want to be able to then provides software and capabilities to their enterprise customers. >> Have they completely changed across to being purely consumption? Or do we still have a lot of industries that preferred by things that with Catholics >> it would be fantastic if the world converged on one answer? Everything is always easier when there's one answer. But I think, ah, one of the things we recognize is that, ah, and it's true and technology. It's true in business models. It's true. In operational models, there's never in. It's never just a or answer right. It's always an end, and there's a need for us to embrace multiple different models in order to meet the needs of our customers. And even a single service provider will find particular areas that they wanted, consumption based model and others that they realize that it's a well entrenched business for them, and the risk is a little bit lower, and they're willing to take on that risk and look at a Cap IX base model right there. Certainly financial implications to both an Op X and the Catholics model. There's tax implications, and you know where. We're still a little bit all over the map in terms of their preferences. >> Hopefully, we'll see that shake out a little bit and we'll have some standard patents to match the practices that will just make it a little bit easier to design the solution. >> I think the Saturn standard pattern that I expect to emerge is that we have to do everything >> for everyone >> in every way that they want to see. >> Oh, you left there, Kevin. I can't imagine that being too difficult. Everything. Everyone it all at every time. That's right. All right. Hey, thanks for the time of and the discussion and good luck with handling that. I know. That's a that's a big lift on. I know we're joking, but, uh, it's a great world for you. Certainly exciting time. And we thank you for your time here. >> Thank you. Thank you guys appreciate the time. >> I appreciate being World 2019. Coverage continues right here on the Cube. We're live and we're in San Francisco.

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way, >> Welcome back to Vima on 2019 in Miami. Everybody, we're here at the Fountain Blue Hotel. This is Day two of our coverage of the Cube, the leader in live Tech. And I'm David Dante with Peter Bors. Pippen. Jay Raj is here. He's the vice president and CEO of Make A Wish America. Just that awesome foundation nonprofit people. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you for having me appreciate it. >> So make a wish. Children with wishes and have terminal illnesses. You guys make them come true. It's just a great organizations. Been around for a long time, I think, since the early eighties, right, >> 39 years and going >> years and hundreds of thousands of wishes made. So just how did you get Teo make a wish that all come about >> it? It wasn't interesting journey. I was consulting in I t for multiple big companies. And, you know, two years back, it was through a recruiting channel that I got an opportunity to start some conversations as the CIA and make a wish. Uh, the thing that got me in the opportunity was predominately about enterprises and just to give you a little bit off, make official operations. Make a Wish was Founded and Phoenix, Arizona. And but we also operate a 60 chapters across the United States that it is 60 chapters each of the chapter there 501 C three companies themselves with the CEO and abort. Essentially, it is 60 plus one. The national team kind of managing. All of the chapters are helping the chapters. National does not do any wish. Granting all the wish planning happens to the chapters. But National helps the chapters with the distribution of funding models brand. And thanks for That's a couple of years back in the national board talked about in our dream and mission, which is granting every eligible child the notion ofthe enterprise. You know, working as an enterprise came into four and it being a great piece off providing shared services and thanks for that. So I was brought on board and we took on I would call as the leader today said and dashes dream off. Bringing together all the 60 chapters and the city chapter's essentially are split across 120 locations. So Wade took on a project off. You know, combining our integrating all of their infrastructure needs into one place. And Phoenix without ada, sent a provider. You know, we worked with a partner. Phoenix. Now fantastic partners >> there. We had them on the other day. >> Yep, yep. Yeah, MacLaren. I mean, and the team, they did a great job. And, you know, when we had to move all of the data, everything from the 60 chapters applications everything into a centralized data center, locations that we managed right now from Make a Wish National office and provide a service back to the chapters That gives you a little bit off. You know, from behind the scenes. What happened? >> You provide the technical overview framework for all the 60 chapters. >> It almost sounds like a franchise model. >> It's what we call a Federated model back in the nonprofit. >> But but but but because make a wish is so driven by information. Yep. Both in the application as well as the programs to deliver thie brand promise. And the brand execution has got to be very, very closely tied to the quality of a shared services you provide >> exactly. Exactly. And like I said, the reason I talked about them being a separate companies themselves is you know, as I always say to my 60 CEOs, Ah, I should be able to provide the services because they wanted, because they have a choice to go outside and have their own partner. Another thing for that which they can. But they would want to work with the national team and get my, you know, work through our services rather than having have to because of the very it's A. It's a big difference when it comes to, but I've been lucky on privileged to you have these conversations with the CEO's. When I start talking to them about the need for centralization, the enterprise society assed much, there are questions when he start leading with the mission and the business notion of why we need to do that, it's It's fantastic. Everybody is in line with that. I mean, there's no question, then, as toe Hey, guys, uh, let me do all the Operation Manisha fight and leave it to me and I'll in a handler for you, and I let you guys go to what you do best. which is granting wishes. So then it becomes it doesn't become a question off, you know, should be a shouldn't way. And of course, to back that up. But I was talking to the dean, folks, It just solutions. Like VMware, Veeam. It makes it much simpler even from a cost prospect. You not for me to manage a bigger team s so that I can take those dollars and give it back to the business to grant another wish. So it's it's pretty exciting that >> way. So you set the standards. Okay, here's what you know, we recommend and then you're you're saying that adoption has been quite strong. Yeah, I remember Peter. Don't say easy. I used to run Kitty Sports in my local town in which is small town. And there was, you know, a lot of five or six or seven sports, and I was the sort of central organization I couldn't get six sports to agree that high man is 60 different CEO's. But that's okay. So not easy. But so how were you able to talk leadership or leading as we heard from Gino Speaker today? How were you able to get those guys, you know, aligned with your vision. >> Uh, it's it's been fantastic. I've had a lot ofthe good support from our executive came from a leadership team because leadership is always very important to these big initiatives are National board, which comprises off some of the that stuff best leaders in America and I have the fortune toe be mentored by Randy Sloan, who used to be the CEO of Southwest. And before that, you see a global CEO for, uh, you know, Popsicle. You know, he always told me, but but I mean CIA job. One thing is to no the technology, but completely another thing. Toe building relationships and lead with the business conversation. And so a typical conversation with the CEO about Hey, I need to take the data that you have all the I t things that you have and then me doing it. And then there are questions about what about my staff and the's conversations. Because you know, it's a nonprofit is a very noble, nice feeling, and you wouldn't want the conversations about, you know, being rift and things like that are being reduced producing the staff and thinks of that. But you know as he walked through that and show the benefits of why we doing it. They get it. And they've been able to repurpose many off the I. D functions back in tow, revenue generation model or ofhis granting in our team. And in many cases, I've been ableto absolve some off their folks from different places, which has worked out fine for me, too, because now I have kind of a power user model across the United States through which I can manage all these 120 locations. It's very interesting, >> you know, site Reliable and Engineering Dev Ops talks about thie error budget or which is this notion of doo. You're going tohave errors. You're going to have challenges. Do you want it in the infrastructure you wanted the functions actually generating value for the business? I don't know much about Make a wish. I presume, however, that the mission of helping really sick kids achieve make achieve a wish is both very rewarding, very stressful. He's gotta be in a very emotional undertaking, and I imagine it part of your message them has got to be let's have the stress or that emotional budget be dedicated to the kids and not to the technology >> completely agree. That's that. That's been one of my subjects, as you asked about How is it going about? It's about having the conversation within the context of what we talked about business and true business. Availability of data. You know, before this enterprise project data was probably not secure enough, which is a big undertaking that we're going down the path with cyber security. And you know, that is a big notion, misplaced notion out there that in a non profits are less vulnerable. Nobody. But that's completely untrue, because people have found out that nonprofits do not probably have the securing of walls and were much more weight being targeted nonprofits as a whole, targeted for cyber security crimes and so on and so forth. So some of these that I used to, you know, quote unquote help or help the business leaders understand it, And once they understand they get it, they ableto, you know, appreciate why we doing it and it becomes the conversation gets much more easier. Other What's >> the scope of the size of the chapters is that is a highly variable or there is. >> It is highly variable, and I should probably said, That's Thesixty chapters. We look at it as four categories, so the cat ones are what we call the Big Ice, the Metro New Yorkers and Francisco Bay Area. They're called Category one chapters anywhere between 4 1 60 to 70 staff. Grant's close to around 700 wishes you so as Make a Wish America, we ran close toe 15,600 wishes a year, and cat ones do kind of close to 700 15,600 400 to 700. And then you get into care to scare threes and cat for scat force are anywhere between, you know, given example Puerto Rico or Guam territory there. Cat Force New Mexico is a cat for three staff members Gammas operated by two staff members and 20 volunteers. They grant about 3 2 20 12 to 15 which is a year, so it's kind of highly variable. And then, you know, we talk about Hawaii chapter. It's a great example. They cat once predominate because of the fact that you know, they they do. There's not a lot ofthe wishes getting originated from how I but you know, Florida, California and how your three big chapters with a grand are a vicious ist with a lot of grant, you know, wish granting. So there's a lot off, you know, traffic through those chapters >> so so very distributed on diverse. What's the relationship between data and the granting of wishes? Talk about the role of data. >> Should I? I was say this that in a and I probably race a lot of fibrosis and my first introductory session a couple of years back when I John make a wish with the CEO's uh, when we had the CEO meeting and talk to them about I leaders the days off making decisions based on guts are gone. It has to be a data driven decision because that's where the world is leading to be. Take anything for that matter. So when we talk about that, it was very imperative going back to my project that the hall we had all of the data in one place or a semblance off one single place, as opposed to 60 different places to make decisions based on wish forecast, for example, how many wishes are we going to do? How many wishes are coming in? How's the demand? Was the supply matching up one of the things that we need to do. Budget purposes, going after revenue. And thanks for that. So data becomes very important for us. The other thing, we use data for the wish journeys. Essentially, that's a storytelling. You know, when I you know, it was my first foray into for profit Sorry, nonprofit. And me coming from a full profit is definitely a big culture shock. And one of the things they ask us, what are we selling? Its emotions and story. And that's our data. That is what you know. That's huge for us if we use it for branding and marketing purposes. So having a good semblance off data being ableto access it quickly and being available all the time is huge for us. >> Yeah, and you've got videos on the site, and that's another form of data. Obviously, as we as we know here, okay. And then, from a data protection standpoint, how do you approach that? Presume you're trying to standardize on V maybe is way >> are actually invested in veeam with them for a couple of years right now, as we did the consolidation of infrastructure pieces Veeam supporters with all of the backup and stories replication models. Uh, we're thinking, like Ratmir talked about act one wi be a part of the journey right now, and we're looking at active. What that brings to us. One of the things that you know, dream does for us is we have close to 60 terabytes of data in production and close to another 400 terabytes in the back of things. And, uh, it's interesting when they look about look at me equation, you think about disaster recovery back up. Why do you need it? What? The business use cases case in point. This classic case where we recently celebrated the 10th anniversary ofthe back wish bad kid in San Francisco, we have to go back and get all the archives you know, in a quick fashion, because they're always often requests from the media folks to access some of those. They don't necessarily come in a planned manner. We do a lot of things, a lot of planning around it, but still there are, you know, how How did that come about? What's the story behind? So you know, there are times we have to quickly go back. That's one second thing is having having to replicate our data immediately. Another classic case was in Puerto Rico. There was a natural disaster happened completely. Shut off. All the officers work down. We had to replicate everything what they had into a completely different place so that they could in a vpn, into an access that other chapters and our pulled in to help. They were close to 10 wish families close to 10 which families were stranded because of that. So, you know, gaining that data knowledge of where the family is because the minute of his journey starts. Everything is on us till the witch's journey ends. So we need to make sure everything is proper. Everything goes so data becomes very crucial from those pants >> you're tracking us. I mean, if you haven't been on the make a Wish site is some amazing stories. There I went on the other day. There's a story of ah, of 13 year old girl who's got a heart condition. Who wanted to be a ballerina. A kid with leukemia five years old wants to be a You want to be a chef. My two favorites, I'll share What? It was this kid Brandon a 15 year old with cystic fibrosis. I wanted to be a Navy seal. You guys made that happen. And then there was this child. Colby was 12 years old and a spinal muscular issue. You want to be a secret agent so very creative, you know, wishes that you ran >> way had another wish a couple of years last year in Georgia, where they wish kid wanted to go to Saturn. Yes, yes, it was huge. I mean, and you know the best part about us once we start creating those ideas, it's amazing how much public support we get. The community comes together to make them wish granting process. Great. Now. So I got involved in that. They gave the wish Kato training sessions to make sure that he is equipped when he goes into. And we had a bushel reality company create the entire scene. It was fabulous. So, you know, the way you talk about data and the technology is now some of the things I'm very excited about us usage off thes next Gen technology is like our winter reality to grant a wish. I mean, how cool would that be for granting a wish kid who is not able to get out of the bed. But having able to experience a the Hawaii is swimming. Are being in Disney World enough a couple of days? That's That's another use case that we talked about. That other one is to put the donors who pay the money in that moment off granting, you know, they are big major gift, uh, donors for make a wish. Sometimes we were not able to be part of a fish, but that would be pretty cool if you can bring the technology back to them and you know not going for them. You know pretty much everybody and make the ass through that rather than a PowerPoint or a storytelling, when the storytelling has to evolve to incorporate all of that so pretty excited >> and potentially make a participatory like, say, the virtual reality and then even getting in more into the senses and the that the smells. And I mean this is the world that we're entering the machine intelligence, >> which you still have to have, But you still have to be a functioning, competent, operationally sound organization. There've been a number of charities, make a wish is often at the top of the list of good charities. But there were a number of charities where the amount of money that's dedicated to the mission is a lot less an amount of money, dedicated administration of fundraising, and they always blame it. Systems were not being able to track things. So no, it's become part of the mission to stay on top of how information's flowing because it's not your normal business model. But the services you provide is really useful. Important. >> Sure, let me percent you the business conundrum that I have personally as a 90 leader. It takes close to $10,400 on an average to grant a wish. Uh, and, uh, partly because of me. But being part of the mission, plus me as a 90 leader wanting to understand the business more, I signed up. I'm a volunteer at the local Arizona chapter. I've done couple of expanding myself, and, uh, the condom is, if asked, if you want to go, uh, you know, do the latest and greatest network upgrade for $10,400 are what do you want to, uh, you know and make the network more resilient cyber security and all that stuff. What do you want to go grant? Another wish as a 90 leader probably picked the former. But as a volunteer, I would be like, No, it needs to go to the kid. It's Ah, it's It's an interesting kind of number, you know? You have to find the right balance. I mean, you cannot be left behind in that journey because at many points of time s I talked about it being a cost center. It being a back office. I think those days have clearly gone. I mean, we we evolved to the point where it is making you steps to be a participant b A b a enabler for the top line to bring in more revenues, tow no augment solutions for revenue and things. For that sofa >> rattles the experience or exact role citizens. And in your case, it's the experience is what's being delivered to the degree that you can improve the experience administratively field by making operations cheaper. Great. But as you said, new digital technologies, they're going to make it possible to do things with the experience that we could even conceive of. Five >> wears a classic example. Williams and Beam. I couldn't have taken the data from 60 chapters 120 locations into one single location manageable, and it reduced the cost literally reduce the cost of the 60 instances in one place without technology is like, you know what Sharia virtual machines. And and then to have a backup robust backup solution in a replication off it. It's fantastic. It's amazing >> there. And that's against here. You could give back to the dash chapters and backing, But thanks so much for sharing your story. You Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there. Buddy. Peter and I were back with our next guest. You watching the Cube live from V mon from Miami? 2019. We're right back. Thank you.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread hat >> and welcome back to the Red Hat Summit. We're live in the B, C, E C, the Boston Convention and Exposition Center, along with two metal men. I'm John Walls were joined by Stephanie Cheer us. Who is the vice president? GM and Red had Enterprise. Lennox? Yes. Good to see here. >> Nice to see you teach >> back in Boston, right back >> in Boston. Home turf. >> You feel at home here? I would give you a big day for you. Right. Relic comes out generally available now a big impact on the marketplaces. Talk about that baby that you've given birth through here today. >> Wear so excited and, you know, having put in all the time. Part of this is representing all the work the team has done and the communities have done. When you think about all the work that goes into a Lennox distribution, it is everybody. It's the communities, It's the partners. So we released the Red Hat Enterprise Lennox eight beta in November mid November. We've had forty thousand downloads of that beta since November. People who have provided feedback and comments, suggestions, all of that fed into what we've released today as the Red Hat Enterprise Lennox eight. General availability. So it's a big day, and part of it is we're just so proud of how we've done it and what we've done. And we've really redefined what are not the value of an operating system with Red Hat Enterprise on its eight >> Dannic students, even saying earlier. Excuse me still, but you're saying there's many years in the making, right? Twenty fourteen It was That was the last was when. Seven. >> That's right. It's been five years. >> And so Hobart Theatre, editor of Process That You went through especially, you know, through that beta stage of a little interested in that are a lot interested in that. In terms of of the changes that were still made at that time that once you heard from users and actually put it into practice, >> yes, so we one of the things that part of our subscription model is getting feedback from customers. It's critical for us and tow advocate for those asks upstream because, of course, everything we do is done upstream. So this is part of the way we build, I would say relate was quite different in the sense that I focus all the features and functions we put into it into two pockets. We wanted to make sure that it helped customers with all the changes that have happened in the industry, helped them run their business better. So things like, Is it hard to find Lenox skills? How did we build a Web console to make that easier? Is it hard to orchestrate a data center? We put in a new capability that's a rules based engine, as a software is a service offering in every rail subscription that takes all that we have learned in the market to how to run an efficient Lennox data center. And it sends that out an assassin offering toe every rail subscription owner right that helps them be more efficient. And then there's the whole set of features and functions we put in to help customers grow the business things like container tooling so they can take that one step into containers right from the operating system. Application streams pull in new versions, so I look at everything we've done. Is it relate, really focuses on running the business better, more efficiently and helping grow the business. It's combination of those two things, and the feedback has been great, right? The relic Beta was great. Some tweaks, some tuning. Some. I like how this is too hard. Take out the friction. That's what we were working on since November. >> Stephanie. It is fascinating to me because, you know, I remember last year Saturn with the right hat team. They talked about just that. The amount of change that goes in tow. Lennox, you know, talk about, you know, it's twenty one point six million lines of code. Over the last two years, a third of the code base has changed, and it's something that you know, since it's open source. There's a lot of visibility by the community has been coming for years, yet something you've been working on for five years. We know how much change there's been in the industry. You just talk a little bit about how you balance those dynamics of, you know, that the caves of released cycle. I understand there's going to be a very systematic approach going forward, as how releases are how right that looks at things >> and and one of the roles that we see that we play in the industry is sitting between all the innovation and the outlook work that's being done in the communities and the enterprise, customers who need to know that they're going to run this hardware and it's gonna work. They're going to run this application and it's going to work, and we serve to bridge that gap in between. We advocate for our customers upstream. We make sure that innovation has tried true and tested by the time it reaches them in rail and we sit in that bridge. So to your point, we're constantly getting input from customers about things that are critical to them, things like life cycle capabilities. Now in an upstream community, they probably don't care about a ten year life cycle. But if you're running it on the floor of a data center, they do and we bridge that gap, feeding that back and forth, and it is a bit of a balance. We need to make sure we're pulling in the next generation of things that are important. But we're also protecting what's important to accustom, earthy, enterprise level and honestly stew. It's a constant given take and a constant balance. But, you know, there are a few things that we hold on principle one, it will always be upstream first to it will always serve our customers. In the enterprise. We do it on their behalf. So you know, the beauty of open source is everyone can play in the three million communities that exist in all of that innovation, the challenges everyone can play. So now how do you take that and run your business on it? That's where we come in. So this is why it's so important in this subscription, we constantly get that input from customers. >> Yeah, absolutely way. When we look at this face in the cloud world, I'm kind of used tto running on the latest and greatest on platform. Takes care of it. And as we you know, customer state, they're living in that hybrid and multi cloud world, and we need to bridge from the old. Okay, I'm running in minus two because I haven't finished testing it yet. I want to make sure I've got the latest security one of Les trois and care of the latest features. So I need to be ableto balance both of those, and it's challenging. >> It is challenging and to your point balancing, that is, you know, we had focused on relate because we really wanted to change the >> value. >> Um, but now moving forward, What we've heard from customers is it's a real business advantage for them to know when they're going to get a new release so they can time it with their hardware updates and their eyes. V update. So, as you mentioned as we head into rally, much more predictable life cycle will have minor releases every six months, major releases every three years. And, you know, as an engineer, you always say what I want to have this and I want to have this and and then sometimes it can divert your schedule. What we've heard from our customers is No, no, no. My schedule is really important. I need to plan. I need to predict. So now we put the schedule first. Going forward will put in everything we can into that version and prioritize what we can. But schedule became very important customers. So, to your point, predictable life cycle is important in relative, >> so huge impact in the business that way, you're giving them stability and certainty and predictability. Let's talk about the economic impact, if you will, because you did a fascinating study. I DC did it for you about this global economic impact that's being realised by rail. And the figures are there beyond impressive. They're staggering in terms of positive economic contributions. Wouldn't talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I when I think about what we all want to do every day, we all want to have impact. It's not always easy to measure impact. And so when we worked with I D. C. And we asked them to go off and do this study, it really was about measuring and economic impact in the world, and I was even flabbergasted at the numbers. But if you look at all the applications and the software that run on rent had Enterprise Lennox, collectively, it will touch ten trillion dollars of business revenue this year. That's amazing. I think partly partly that speaks to several things. It speaks to the importance of Lennox and the market and where it stands with respect to being running core business and mission critical work made what dollars in sense touch, as well as where the new applications are being written. That's the importance of Lennox. I think it's also an astounding statement to say Lennox is built around an ecosystem. It's built by communities, and when you start to make that self sustaining, that's the kind of impact that it can have. But it's incredible. >> Yeah, I loved we had one of the customers we had already was DBS Bank, and they talked about the financial industry on DH. You know, security and innovation and helping to become a technology company themselves. And it's not sitting in a silo. And they had insourced rather than outsourced, and its partnership with Red Hat that that helps enable a lot of that transformation for, you know, company that people don't necessarily think of, you know, banking as you know, that driver of technology innovation, >> right? And when they looked at when they looked at for customers, for customers who use it just is, you say, because they kind of are now technology companies. How do they look at the value of rail? Roughly, it was about a fifty fifty split between savings and productivity, which feeds into savings and growth right, new revenue being driven. So it really ties back to clinics being Yes, what we run and how do we maximize efficiency for it? And yet how do we grow our business? So it's it's It's absolutely, I mean the use of the software that's being run on Red Hot enterprise Lennox will will reach economic benefits for those customers of a trillion dollars a year. That's huge. That's huge. So it's great. >> Yeah, So out of that ten trillion, I don't know if you could put it in the buckets if you can, but just or maybe the most impressive buckets, if you will, is it through efficiency is the truth time say, visit through better higher production? Uh, I mean, where are those big chunk gains being realised? >> So they provided a breakout of productivity and cost savings in the center and then revenue growth. And honestly, it's a fifty fifty split between savings and growth, and I think that's a huge statement, right about not only what can be done to do cost savings, because that starts to change the way you know everyone starts to think of. A commodity is no once I get into a commodity, I'm going to just save money, and I'm going to pull every cent out. But when its strategic, that's when you grow. And so to me, seeing a fifty percent split pea to and what I can save with it and what I can grow with it. The operating system is anything but a commodity, right? It's a complete strategic decision for a company. So it was great, >> right? So Stephanie would talk. Talk about economic impact. Something I always loved to talk about at this show is what's happening with jobs. Six year we've been doing this show in the early years. It was that Lennox operating model is just becoming pervasive. You look at what happened in the cloud, lookit what topping and software to find, whether it be networking or other piece of the environment. If you understand Lennox, chances are those operating models or what they're using in your that time to get up to speed on those new skills is going to be smaller, can talk about what you're seeing kind of thie ecosystem of jobs, not just, you know, red hat. You know the customers using it, but but even beyond. >> Yeah, so we see that. I mean that this study will show that but nine hundred thousand jobs are being driven by the rail ecosystem. That's massive. That's massive. And and while many of those companies air global, a lot of that is domestic. So I think that as we look at the skills group, that air moving forward and you look at even the operating system adoption and they're operating system adoption of Lennox and those skills customers right now are saying Lennox skills are hard to find. We're working to make it easier. But nine hundred thousand jobs, that's all. That's a lot of work being driven by this ecosystem alone. >> Well, you said jobs where you just talked about difficulty in some respects. What about educating the modern workforce or or an updated workforce? I mean, what kind of impact can you have on that? Or do you want tohave on that in terms of finding the right people in order to keep driving you forward? Because I think a lot of people share that concern is just coming up with that, that brain power, if you will, that that firepower to keep this innovative cycle to keep it rolling like it like it is. Where you going for that? How you doing that? >> You know, I think I think there's a couple. There's clearly things we can do in the product we added in something called Web Console. It's built off the upstream called cockpit, but it comes in and it is. You know, you can run your Lennox service now from your phone off of a Web portal, and it'Ll be shown in a demo tomorrow morning, which is is just the coolest toe Launch up your system Jets grade, and we worked very closely to make sure that the gooey and the feel and the way it was done with similar toe windows. Because many companies certainly have Windows installations, they have Lennox installations. The more we can make the most of the skills that customers have and be able to have that be cross compatible is really important, and clearly we have. The market has recognized the importance of developers not only as influencers but developed, but developing the next applications. What will come down the pipeline in? Let's face it, many customers, we're seeing all. I didn't know my developer was doing this, but they're coming in with real, you know, growth opportunities for the business. So we have really put in a play for developers. We have developer subscriptions that they can use. So a very focused effort with our team to reach out to the developers, make sure they have the tools they need, the capabilities they need. We've put in build a pod, man and scope eo right into the rail sub so that, you know, they can start to build their containers right from the OS. >> All right, So, Stephanie, we've talked a bunch about relate. And I know that Hunza session you're going to be in the keynote today. >> Yes. Give us >> a You know, a key nugget or two that, you know, it might be overlooked if if if you didn't shine a light on it, you know, love to get your take on what you're geeking out on when it comes to relate. >> Yeah, So I'm actually one of the things and and I know you'LL have a deep dive on this later. One of the things that I love about it is we have pulled in This relate launch is very much to me. A Portfolio launch Redhead is a portfolio company of enterprise software. It's not a product company. We're not just an OS company, although that's important. We're portfolio company. So what you'LL see in the relative announcement is really how it ties to the rest of the portfolio. Red Hat Enterprise Lennox Core OS As part of feeding into open shift, that's important. Having universal base image be the way we allow developers. We allow eyes ves to build containers that are ready to deliver that well experience on open shift Iran. Well, that's huge for us. Pulling in capabilities like management within sites, pulling that directly into every sub. Every rail. Six seven eight sub. Right to me, we've taken Rail eight is the first real step where we launch a product, but it's a portfolio launch. And, uh, and that's partly why it makes me so excited, right? I mean, being in relics like being being in all the products, that red hat, because where the foundation of it, that's what I hope people walk away feeling right that the OS is important and its core to the whole portfolio that red hat can deliver, >> but we look forward to the keynote tonight. Yes. You're gonna knock it out of the park as you always do. Thanks for joining us. And maybe if you have a little expertise on the side, give Brad Stevenson call Celtics coach. I think you could use a win right now. Every celtics on thin ice right now, but Red Hat very much Bruins once. All right? Okay. All right, >> I'll take it. >> It's a win, right, Stephanie? Thank you. Thanks, Joe. It's a pleasure to have you back with more for the redhead summit. You're watching the cue. >> How well

(energetic music) >> Narrator: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCUBE, covering CoinAgenda. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE. >> Hello and welcome to our exclusive Puerto Rico coverage of CoinAgenda, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We're here covering all the action at Restart, we've got a ton of events, all the thoughts leaders, influencers, decision makers, you name it, in the industry, pioneers making it happen. My next guest is Toni Lane, who's the founder of CoinGraph. She's a true influencer with a lot of impact in this market. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> We're so glad to have you on. Like the little joke at the beginning about being an influencer, you actually are an influencer. You've done such great work in the industry, well regarded in the community. You have publication and you do a lot of great content. Thanks for coming on. >> Oh, for sure, yeah, thanks for having me. >> So being the influencer, what does that mean these days? Because we were just talking before the camera on, we came on camera, influence changes. You can't be an influencer all the time. You can be super or expert at something, but your expertise could change, you move to a new topic, learn something. And there's a lot of people in the digital marketing world saying I'm an influencer. It's kind of half baked, and really, I mean, it's not about the followers, your thoughts? >> Well, I mean, most of those followers are purchased. So there's a big difference between being an influencer and having actual influence. Because if you're, you know, if you have a million followers on Twitter, that's nice. How much engagement do you have? And that's actually what you look for, it's like when you look at someone's, whether it's, you know, social media, their digital presence, it's not about followers, it's all about engagement. You know, I don't even have that many, like I don't spend a lot of time doing that, at least I haven't so far, it's something I'm getting more into. But I have people that are really engaged, and so I look at people that have 15 million followers and I'm like, you have just as many likes on your things as I do, right. Because these people aren't real people. And it's less about, having influence in general is in many ways about having authenticity. And so influence is your ability to get something done. Being an influencer is your ability to hold someone's attention for a fragment of time. But being an influencer is not the same as having influence. >> And this community here, certainly, with decentralization here, you get the decentralized applications coming up blockchain, you got ICOs booming. It's all about the network effect, if you look at network effect, that is a new concept that ad technology does not know because you can't cookie a network connection. The only way to measure someone's true network is through malware today, and that's not good, no one does that. Well, they do, they're-- >> Toni: Unfortunately, yeah. >> But you can't you do it at business price, not sustainable. So the point is, it's not about how many followers you have. It could be that one follower, maybe 200 or 2,000, that opens up more. This is the network effect. This is what this community is all about, so I want to get your thoughts on this community's vibe. A lot of mission-driven, impact-oriented, merged with tech. So you have a fusion of technology, artistry, craftsmanship and mission-driven societal change in one melting pot. This is your wheelhouse. Share your thoughts on this. >> Well, so all of the different digital currencies have different value systems and they attract a different breed. And there are different incentives for each of these based on how the technology is designed, each protocol, right? So if you look at Bitcoin, in Bitcoin, the incentives are, you know, mining is done by computers, so your only incentive is like having social influence? And this is, I think, why we've seen a lot of kind of I would call it a scarcity mentality in terms of the way, why we see even more trolls in Bitcoin is because social influence is a huge way that success is measured, because as a developer, you can't have, you can't achieve a level of status any other way as a developer or as an influencer in Bitcoin, because the Bitcoin network is so far removed from that. And that's actually a perverse incentive in and of itself, and not only that, but early days in Bitcoin, there were major organizations who would hire people to man 100 Reddit and Twitter accounts and go into the Bitcoin community and actually fragment the public opinion using a technique grassroots psychological insurgency. So buying Reddit accounts that had been active for the last 10 years and going through and, you know, essentially just stabbing at people and creating, even having conversations with themselves to empower the voice of trolls. And what happens is you start bringing out what we call, actually, what the former Assad called, after Henry Kissinger, there was a big move that happened in the Middle East, where Kissinger realized the Middle East was becoming too powerful, and he saw it as a threat to American democracy. And so Kissinger organized a deal that fragmented the Middle East. And Assad said to Kissinger that his actions would be, he played Assad, basically. And Assad said to Kissinger, "Your actions "will bring up demons hidden underneath "the surface of the Arab world." And that strategy is actually something used in the Bitcoin community to leverage the incentives that are created, which is why we have seen previously so much, even from our industry leaders, so much fragmentation and so much tension. But the network is the most secure and the least corruptible, hands down, fundamentally. It's real cryptography. >> But let's talk about that, I love this conversation, because with networks, you have the concept of self-heal, and this gets nerdy on the packets, how packets move, at that level, self-healing networks has been a paradigm that's been proven. So that's out there, that's got to go to a societal level. The other one is the incentive system, if you have an immune system, if you will, in a network, this is a cultural thing. So actions, the Reddit's obvious, right. Weaponizing content has been well-documented, it's coming now mainstream, people are getting it that this outcome was actually manufactured by bad behavior. Now, I argue that there's an exact opposite effect. You can actually weaponize for good, 'cause everything has a polar opposite. So what is your view on that, because this is something that we've been teasing out for the first time. How do you weaponize content for good, (mumbles) not the right word, but look for the opposite value? >> Right, yeah, I mean, it is in so many ways, right. So I think it's about, there's a professor at Stanford whose name is BJ Fogg, and he's a behavioral researcher and he talks about essentially, you know, he writes a lot about habits. But something that's even more interesting about his understanding of propaganda is I studied a lot of Edward Bernays, he's responsible, he created the theory of propaganda, right. And he's the nephew of Sigmund Freud, he's responsible for essentially every consumptive theory in like leading up to the last century, he's actually, I would say he's responsible for the state of advertising and the economy today, almost really single handedly. And what's fascinating about this theory is that you can use propaganda to get women to smoke by unearthing what it is unconsciously in men that makes them not want to smoke. You can also use propaganda to get people to invest in health and wellness. You can also use propaganda to get people to stop their bad habits. So it's understanding that a technique works in a cognitive capacity in a way that affects a large amount of people. And it's really about the intention behind why a person who has influence, as we were saying, is leveraging that relationship. So I would say it's more about-- >> So we have to reimagine influence. Because the signalings that are igniting the cognitive brain can be tweaked. So that's what you're getting at here, right, so that's what we have to do. >> And it's an illusion from almost every angle. It's even the idea that, in the United States, the level of influence the president has and who's running, you know, and who, yeah, and who's at the wheel, right. So it's, we live in a world that is built on manufactured consent, and manufactured consent is enabled through thinkers like Bernays and through what I call the illusion of things like our former construct of even American democracy. That these things we've imagined to be so, the foundation and the structure for the way that we live. All of those things have become so far removed from their theory that they're no longer serving the principles under which they were founded, and that disconnect is actually a huge, it's a gap, it's an inertia gap for exploitation or it's an inertia gap for growth, and usually what happens is you have the exploitation first. Someone says oh, here's a big gap of information asymmetry, so I'm going to exploit the information asymmetry. And then once people start realizing that that information asymmetry is being exploited, you experience a huge inversion of that and you have enough kind of, you have enough inertia behind that slingshot to launch it into something totally different. >> Yeah, this is a great concept, I interviewed the founder of the Halcyon HAL in Washington, DC, and she's an amazing woman. And she had a great conscious about this, and what she postulated was, bubbles that burst, exploitation's always, we've seen it in all trends. The underbelly, 'cause it's motivated, no dogma. They don't care about structural incentives, they just want to make cash. But she had an interesting theory, she was talking about you can let the air out of the bubble with community and data. So all the societal entrepreneurship activities now that are mission-driven, now getting back to mission-driven is interesting. There might be a way to actually avoid the pop. Because, depending upon what the backlash might be on the exploitation side, as we saw in the dotcom bubble, you can actually let the air out a little bit through things like data. I mean, how do you see, in your mind, just thinking out loud, how do you see that playing out, because we have community now. We have access to open data. Blockchain is all about immutability. It's all about power to the user's data. This is a mega trend. Your thoughts? >> So interdependence is huge in the blockchain community, and that's actually to touch back on the incentives in Bitcoin, I think that that's actually one of Bitcoin's, it's not that it's a wrong or a right, it just is, right, like sidechains will be launched eventually, but the idea that Ethereum created something that was adaptable and empowered people to be creative, and yet they're creating incentives for her people to launch products that are, I believe, 'causing, in some ways, could cause some serious harm to the ecosystem once the air is let out of that bubble. >> John: The data. >> The data, so data, yes yes yes. >> How do you let the air out of the bubble, because the pop will be massively implosion, it'll leave a crater. >> So data is a non-scarce resource. This is actually how I describe blockchain to people. And this is actually, I think, one of the, the challenge, if you want to look at it from the perspective of challenge, and then I'll talk about for the benefit, just between Bitcoin and Ethereum, there are obviously other blockchains, EOS is like coming out super soon, Holochain. There are tons, Steem has actually its own infrastructure, tons of other blockchains to speak about. But just to take these two main blockchains, which are not competitors. In Bitcoin, you have, it's really cryptography. Cryptography is not about, you know, like let's do some rapid prototyping, cryptography is about let's like put a lot of thought into this thing and have mathematical certainty that this is not exploitatable. And Ethereum is just kind of like, well, let's build a framework and then let people play as much as they can. And so there are challenges and benefits to both of those models, the challenge of Ethereum being that you've let all of this capital into the industry which is not actually, 46% of ICOs have already failed. Already failed. And then if you look at Bitcoin-- >> And a person with your industry (mumbles) at 1,200, so it's a 50% discount. >> Oh yeah, oh yeah. And then if you do the same thing and you're looking at the Bitcoin blockchain, we've seen that the capacity for innovation, Bitcoin could have done what, they could've been the first to market for what Ethereum is doing. And they chose a different route, and I think there are some pros and cons to both of those things, but I think there is an intentionality behind why the world played out in the way that it did. And I think it's the right strategy for both products. So the way I describe applications using blockchain technology to people and what I call the future of an infinite economy is that, if you think about why are Facebook and Google these multi billion dollars companies, it's really simple. It's because what do they own, right? The data, the data. And they're some of the last companies that are still stewarding these things in a way that is taking vast amount of aggregated ownership over an asset that people are generating every day that's extremely valuable to companies in the private sector. So the way that I describe blockchain is that, if we being to own our self-sovereign identity, then when we're owning our data, that's the foundation for universal basic income. If we take a non-scarce resource like data that's being generated every day, not just from us, right, but the data in the health of the ocean, right. The stewardship of the ocean, the health of the fish, actually saying okay, fish are thriving in this area, and so there's a healthy ecosystem, and so this coin is trading higher because we're stewarding this area of the ocean so we don't overfish. The quality of the air so that, when we're actually de-polluting the air collectively, everyone around us is creating and generating data to say we're making the air better. The air, actually, the health of our bodies, of our Earth, of our minds, of our planet, of even the health of our innovation. Right, what are the incentives behind our innovation, those are all forms of data. And that's a non-scarce resource, so if we take all of these different applications and make many different blockchains. Which I fundamentally believe that there's a powerful theory in having blockchains that are economically scarce, because I believe you're going to empower more diverse spectrums and also have a level of difficulty in creating the coin. You're going to have more innovation. And so-- >> Well, this is a key area. I mean, this is super important. Well, I mean, you step back for a second, you zoom out, you say okay, we have data, data's super valuable, if you take it to the individual's levels, which has not been, quite frankly, the individual's been exploited. Facebooks of the world, these siloed platforms, have been using the data for advertising. That's just what everyone knows, but there's other examples. The point is, when you put the data in the hands of the users, combine that with cloud computing and the Internet of Things when you can have an edge of the network high powered computer, the use cases have never been pushed before. The envelope that we're pushing now has never been in this configuration. You could never have a decentralized network, immutable, storing users' data, you've never had the ability to write the kind of software you can today, you've never had cloud computing, you've never had compute at the edge, which is where the users live, they are the edge. You have the ability where the user's role can enable a new kind of collective intelligence. This is like mind blowing. So I mean, just how would you explain that to a common person? I mean, 'cause this is the challenge, 'cause collective intelligence has been well documented in data science. User generated content is kind of the beginning of what we see in user wearables. But if you can control the data streaming into the network, with all the self-healing and all the geek stuff we're talking about, it's going to change structural things. How do you explain that to a normal person? >> You don't, you don't, right. So you show them. Because I can sit here all day and I can talk to you about, you know, I could talk to you about all of these things, but at the end of the day, with normal people, it's not something you want to explain. You want to show them, because with my, actually, my grandma gets Bitcoin. My grandma hit me up in like 2012 and she was like, "Do you know what that Bitcoin thing is?" I'm like, "Mimi," I'm like, "How do you know "what Bitcoin is, Mimi?" And she's just like, "I don't know, I read." You know, I was like, "This is, so what are you reading? "Like, are you hanging out on like libertarian forums, "like what's up?" And so-- >> What's going on in the club there, I mean, are they playing-- >> Yeah, but she is a really unique lady. So I would say that, for most people, they are not going to, when you explain things to people-- >> What would you show them, I mean, what's an example? >> The way that, so when I was, so I got into Bitcoin in 2011, and the way that I would explain Bitcoin to people is I would just send it to them. I would be like, "Here's Bitcoin, like take this Bitcoin, "here's some Bitcoin for you." And that was, people got it, because they were like, I have five dollars now in my hands that was not there. And this person just sent it to me. And for some people even still, you know, to be honest, even then, I remember how much energy it took for me to do that. Everywhere I go, I'd be like, in cabs, I'd be checking out grocery stores and I would try, I would essentially pitch Bitcoin to every person that I met. >> John: You were evangelizing a lot of it. >> It took so much energy though, and even after that, there was a period-- >> It was hard for people to receive it, they would have to do what at that time? Think about what the process was back then. >> Oh yeah. There were very few people who, even after doing that, really got it. But you know what happened. This is so much perspective for me, I remember doing that in 2013 and I remember, in 2018, actually, I think it was the end of 2017. I went to a gas station, it's the only gas station in San Francisco with a Bitcoin ATM. And I was like, I need to get some cash and I'm running on Bitcoin. >> John: You guys want a mountain view now. >> Yeah, yeah. And so I go in and these guys, I'm like frustrated, I'm like oh, the ATM is like the worst user experience ever, I'm like (groans). That's literally, I'm like, it's just, it was like eyes rolling in the back of my head, like just so frustrated because I'm a super privacy freak. And so it was just a super complex process, but the guys that, the guy's (mumbles) he looks at me and he goes, "Yo." And I was like, "What's up, man?" And he goes, "Are you trying to buy some Bitcoin?" I was like, "I'm trying to sell some Bitcoin right now." (John laughs) >> You're dispensing it, they're like yeah. >> Yeah, he's like, "Oh, word." And he's like, "How much are you trying to sell?" And I'm like, "I don't know, like 2K." And so he goes, "Aight." And he's like, "Let me hit up my friends," he literally calls three of his friends who come down and they just like, they're like, "Do you want to sell more?" They're like, all they just peer to peer. It's like we bypass the ATM and it was actually a peer to peer exchange. And I didn't have to explain anything. You know what made people get it? You showed them the money, you showed them the money. And sometimes people don't, you can explain these concepts that are world-changing, super high level or whatever. People are not actually going to get it until it's useful to them. And that's why a user interface is so important. Like, if you even look at the Internet. Who made the money on the Internet, right, it was the people who understood how to own the user interface. >> I had a conversation with Fred Kruger from WorkCoin, he's been around the block for a long time, great guy. We were riffing on the old days. But we talked about the killer app for the mini computer and the mainframe, the mini computer and then the PC, it was email, for 20 years, the killer app was email. We were like, what's the killer app for blockchain? It's money, the killer app is money. And it's going to be 50 year killer app. Now, the marketplace is certainly maybe tier two killer app, but the killer app is money. >> For sure, that's amazing. >> That's the killer app. Okay, so we're talking about money, let's talk about wallets and whatnot. There's a lot of people that I know personally that had been, wallets had been hacked. Double authentication (mumbles) news articles on this, but even early on, you got to protect yourself. It's something that you're an advocate of, I know recently, you've been sharing some stuff on Telegram. Share your thoughts on newbies coming in, be careful. Your wallet can be hacked, and you got to take care of yourself online. Is there a best practice, can you share some color commentary on when you get into the system, when you get Bitcoin or crypto, what are some of the best practices? >> It's not even, I think you need to remember a key principle of cryptography when you're dealing with digital currency, which was like don't really trust anything unless you call someone, you have like first hand verification from a person that you trust. Because these things are, I mean, I've had, literally last week, I had seven friends contact me, actually more than that once I posted about it, and they were like, "Is this you?" And I was like what, like people would literally just go online, they would scrape my Facebook photo, they'd go on Telegram and they would make, my name is @ToniLaneC, T-O-N-I-L-A-N-E-C, and so is my Twitter, and people would scrape my photos from my Twitter or my Telegram or my Facebook and they would create fake accounts. And they would start messaging people and say "Hey, like "what's up, how are you, that's cool, great, awesome. "So like, I need like 20 BTC for a loan. "Can you help me?" And all my friends were like, "I was just talking to you, is this you?" And I'm like no. And so I think that there's, the other thing you have to, it's not just security in terms of, and this is actually a problem Blockchain has to solve, right. It's not just security in terms of protecting your wallet and, you know, getting like a Ledger or a Trezor and making sure that you're keeping things like in cold storage, that you're going, there are so many, keeping your money in a hard wallet, not keeping your private keys on your computer, like keeping everything, storing your passwords in multiple places that you know are safe. Both handwritten, like in lock boxes, putting it in your safe deposit box or, you know, there are so many different ways that we can get into like the complexities of protecting yourself and security. Not using centralized cell networks is one of the big ways that I do this. Because if you are using two factor-- >> John: What's a centralized cell network? >> AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile. Because you are putting yourself in a situation where, if you're using a centralized system, those centralized systems are really easily exploitable. I know because my mom, when I was a kid one time, she put a password on my account so I couldn't buy games. I was not happy about it, it was my money that I was using, it was my money I was using to buy games, she was like, "You should just spend your money on better things." And so I remember going in when I was a kid, and I was like, this is my money, I totally want to buy this upgrade on this game. And so I went in and I essentially figured out how to hack into my own phone to be able to use my own money to buy the games that I wanted to buy-- >> Highly motivated learning opportunity there (laughs). >> But I realized that, in the same way we were talking about things that can be used for good can be used for bad, in the same way that someone can do something like that, you can also say, well, I'm in a call and say that I'm this person and take their phone and then get their two factor auth. So I don't use centralized cell networks, I don't use cell networks at all. >> John: What do you use? >> So, I mean, I have different kinds of like strategies or different things that mostly-- >> You might not want to say it here, okay, all right. >> Yeah yeah yeah, they're different, I'm happy to talk about those privately. The way that I've kind of handled that situation, and then the other thing that I would say is like, we really need hardcore reputation systems in our industry and for the world. And not social reputation systems like what is happening in China right now, where you can have someone leave you, like let's say I get into an Uber and I'm 30 seconds late. I can end up in a situation where I'm like not able to be admitted into a hospital or I'm not able to take a public train. Because someone rates me lower on this reputation system, I think that's a huge human rights issue. >> John: Yeah, that's a huge problem. >> And so not reputation systems like this, but reputations like the one we're working on at CULTU.RE that are really based more on the idea of restoration and humanization, rather than continued social exploitation to create some kind of collective norm, I think that kind of model is, it's not only a-- >> Well, the network should reject that by-- >> Toni: Exactly, exactly. >> All right, so let's talk about digital nations, we have China, so there's some bad behavior going on there. I mean, some will argue that there's really no R&D over there, and now they're trying to export the R&D that they stole into other countries, again, that's my personal rant. But the innovation there is clear, we chat and other things are happening. They finally turned the corner where they're driving a lot of, you know, mainly because of the mobile. But there's other nations out there that are kind of left behind. The UK just signed this week with Coinbase a pretty instrumental landmark licensing deal, which is a signal, 'cause I know Estonia, Armenia, you name every country wants to, Bahrain's got, you know, Dubai envy. So I mean, every country wants to be the crypto country. Every country wants to be the smart cities digital nation. I know this is something that you liked, and you and I were talking about 'cause we both are interested in. Your reaction, your thoughts on where that's going, I see, it's a good sign. What are the thresholds there, what are some of the keys things that they need to do to be a real digital nation? >> Well, I think it's less about digital nations in terms of like a nation is a series of borders, and more about first nations that we are, this is what we work on at CULTU.RE, that we are actually a nation of people and a lot of those nations have overlap and we should be able to participate in many different nations who have many different economies that are all really cooperating interdependently to create the best possible life for all human good, rather than just saying like I care about me and mine, because that strategy, the way government works now, it's a closed network with low trust that is extremely inefficient in management of resources. And the only way you can really-- >> That's the opposite, by the way, of what this movement's about. >> Yeah, exactly. And the only way you can have influence in government is to go in government and to work through government. All right. So it's the idea that, look at how much food we waste in the United States. If we took the food we wasted in the United States and repurposed it, we could literally cure world hunger. That is how bad it has gotten, right. And there are people starving in the US. There are people on food stamps in the US. >> Well, I mean, every institution, education, healthcare, you name it, it's all, you know, FUBAR, big time. >> Yeah, but we're throwing away tons of lettuce and all of this different kinds of produce because it like looks funky. Like this peach looks a little too much like a bottom. So we're like not able to sell it. >> Or lettuce got a little brown on it, throw the whole thing away. >> Yes, exactly, exactly, and that waste is unacceptable. So what we need to move toward is a model of open networks of governance where we have peer to peer distribution of finance and of resources in a way that allows people to aggregate around the marketplaces that are actually benefiting the way that they believe the world should work. So it's about creating a collective strategy of collective non-violence and eliminating harm, so obviously, you know, having a society that has enough proper incentives so that people are well off and that people are provided for, and I think blockchain will-- >> I noticed you're wearing a United Nations pin. >> Woo-hoo, yeah. And blockchain, I think, will also create this. >> John: I have one too. >> Let's up top. (slap) Yeah, I think blockchain will also help create universal basic income, but in addition to that, it's the idea that, if I'm living next door, I'll give two examples. So one is about the legality of the way that we contribute to the society. So let's say I have a next door neighbor. And let's say that this next door neighbor and I feel literally, we totally get along on everything, there's just one issue we feel we're like, I totally disagree with this, I totally disagree. And that issue is the use of, and I hope this isn't controversial to say, but anyway. So the use of medical marijuana, right. And it shouldn't be, because we can have two different opinions and the world can still work and that's the point. >> Well, in California, it's now legal to own marijuana. >> Yeah, for sure, it's legal here as well. So it's the idea that, if I, so let's say I'm a woman who, you know, I have someone in my life who was injured by a driver who was driving under the influence of marijuana. And so that's all I know about marijuana because I don't really do drugs, I've never been around drugs. So when I hear that word, I immediately think about the person in my life who was harmed because of, yes, and so immediately triggered, and I'm like, I don't want to support anything, I don't want to support anything to do with marijuana, I think marijuana is like the Devil's lettuce. And I have no interest in supporting marijuana. She never has to support marijuana, she doesn't have to. But her next door neighbor is a veteran with Parkinson's disease, her, me, whatever, is a veteran with Parkinson's disease, okay. And the only way that this man can move is, he's literally shaking, but when he smokes medical marijuana, he's actually able to, you watch and literally 30-45 minutes, he's upright, he looks like a normal healthy man. And so he says, "I believe that every, "after I fought in this, I believe every person "should have access to medical marijuana, "because this is the only way I'm able "to even operate my life." >> The different context. >> And I'm so, yes, exactly. And so what culture is really about is about understanding each other's context, that's even how reputation works. It's contextual awareness that provides greater understanding of who we are as individuals and the way we work together to make society work. So maybe they can mutually agree that he is not going to smoke while he's driving and he can pay to support everyone to have access who needs access to medical marijuana. >> Or he could finance Uber rides for them. You know, or whatever, I mean, these are mechanisms. >> Yes, yes, but it's the, yes, exactly, exactly. It's the idea that we are all, we're coming together to share context is a way that's not aggressive and not accusatory, so two people can believe two totally different things and still develop enough mutual respect to live together peacefully in a society. >> You know, the other too I'm riffing on that is that now KYC is a concept (mumbles) kicked around here, know your customer. I've been riffing on the notion of KYC for know your neighbor. And what we're seeing in these communities, even the analog world, people don't know who their neighbors are. Like, they don't actually even like care about them. >> Toni: For sure. >> You know, maybe I grew up in, you know, a different culture where, you know, everyone played freely, the parents were on the porch having their cocktail or socializing and watching the kids from the porch play on the lawn. Now I call that Snapchat, right. So I can see my kids Snapchat, so I'm not involved, but I have peripheral view. >> Toni: For sure. >> But we took care of each other. That doesn't happen much anymore, and I think one of the things that's interesting in some of these community dynamics that's been successful is this empathy about respect. They kind of get to know people in a non-judgmental way. And I think that is something that you see in some of these fragmented communities, where it's just like, if they just did things a little bit different. Do you agree, I see you're shaking your head, your thoughts on this? This super interesting social science thing that's, now you can measure it with digital or you can measure that kind of-- >> We can incentivize it. We can incentivize it. And that's the difference, measurement is one thing. Incentive is a behavior changer. Incentive is a behavior changer. And that is what we actually have to do in the way we think about the foundation of these systems, is it's not incentivizing competitive marketplaces that are like my way of thinking about this is right and your way of thinking about this thing is wrong, and like ah, it's not about that. At the end of the day like, I think we forget or misquote so much of, so many of the great thinkers of the last generation, like if you think about Darwin. What does everyone know about Darwin, right, it's like survival of the fittest. It's not what Darwin said, okay. It's misquoted and it's used, it's like one of those things where people who want to exploit-- >> It's a meme, basically. >> Yeah, people who want to exploit someone else's knowledge for their own ends will use that to, in some way, uplift the kind of like strategy of, you know, incentives of the time. What Darwin actually said was that human beings with the highest capacity for sympathy, qualities we now identify as altruism, compassion, empathy, reciprocity, will be the most likely to survive during hardship. Fundamentally, I mean, look at the state of the world today. It doesn't look good, it's like, you look at the way people interact with each other, it's like a virus that's attacking itself in an ecosystem that is our planet Earth, and we need to be, you know what is the antibody, our own sense of consideration for our fellow man. That is the antibody to violence. And so we can incentivize this, and we're going to have to because we're going to, AI, automation, these will fundamentally transform the way we think about jobs in a way that will liberate us like we've never known before. And once given the freedom, I think that we'll see the world start to change. >> Toni, I really appreciate you spending the time in this thought leadership conversation, riffing back and forth. Feels great and it's a great productive conversation. I got to ask you, how did you get there? I mean, who are you? I mean, you're amazing. Like, how did you get here, you obviously, Coin Telegraph's one of the projects you're running, great content. You're wearing the UN pin, I'm aligning with that. Got a great perspective. What's your story? Where did you come from originally, I mean... How did you get here? >> I think, you know, I don't know. I'm really connected to Saturn, I don't know where my home planet is. >> Which spaceship did you come in on? No, I mean, seriously, what's your background? How did you weave into this? 'Cause you have a holistic view on things, it's impressive. But you also can get down and dirty on the tech, and you have a good, strong network. Did you kind of back into this by accident on purpose, or was it something that you studied? What's the evolution that you have? >> Yeah, you know. I studied performance art and I was an artist all of my life. And I had a really big existential crisis, because I realized, as I was looking around, that technology was replacing every form. I remember the first time I watched an AI generate, this was maybe in like, I don't remember how, this was a long time ago, but I was essentially watching, before like the deep dream stuff, maybe like 2009 or 10. And I remember watching computers generate art. And I just was like, I was like mic drop, I was like anything that could ever be created can and will be created by computers, because these are, you are looking at this data, you can scan every art piece in the world and create an amalgamation of this in a way that extends so far beyond team and capacity that the form that we have used to express artistic integrity, all forms will, in some way, become obsolete as a form of creative expression. And I had this huge existential crisis as a performer, realizing that the value of my work was essentially, like, how long would the value of my work live on if no one is, I am not alive to continue singing the song. You don't remember the people who played Carmen, you remember Bizet who wrote the opera, you remember Carmen the character, but the life of the performer is like that of a butterfly. It's like you emerge from the cocoon, you fly around the world beautifully for a very short amount of time. And then you just, you know, stardust again. And so I had this huge existential moment, and it was a really big awakening call. It was as though the gravity of the universe came into the entire dimension of my being and said these, what you have learned has given you a skill, but this is not your path. So I went okay, I just need some time to like process that and so, 'cause this is my entire life, it's the only thing I ever imagined I would ever do. And so I ended up spending three months in silence meditating. And people are like whoa, like how did you do that? And I don't think people, I don't know, not that people don't understand, but I'm not certain that a lot of people have the level of this kind of existential moment that I experienced. And I couldn't have done anything else, I really just needed to take that time to process that I was actually reformulating every construct at the foundation of my own reality. And that was going to take, that's not something you just do overnight, right, like some people can do it more fluidly, but this was a real shift, a conscious shift. And so I asked myself three questions in that meditation, it was what is my purpose, what is the paradigm shift and where is my love. And so I just meditated on these three questions and started to, I don't know how deeply you've studied lucid dreaming or out of body experiences, but that's another, a conversation we can get into in another time, that was my area of study during that period. And so I ended up leaving the three months in silence and I just kind of, I started following my intuition. So I would just, essentially, sometimes I'd walk into a library and I would just shut my eyes and I would just walk around and I would touch books. And I would just feel what they felt like to me, like the density of their knowledge. And I would just feel something that I felt called to, and I would just pull it out of the shelf and just read it. And I don't know how to explain it-- >> (mumbles) Energy, basically-- >> I was guided, I was guided to this. This was in 2011. And so what I started getting into was propaganda theory, the dissolution of Aristotelian politics as an idea of citizen and state when we're really all consumers in a Keynesian economy structured by Edward Bernays, the inventor of propaganda, who essentially based our entire attitude of economic health on, you know, a dissolving human well being. Like, the evolution of our economic well being and our human well being were fundamentally at odds, and not only was that system non-sustainable, but it was a complete illusion. At every touch, point and turn, that the systems we lived in were illusions. And so is all of the world, right, like this whole world is an illusion, but these illusions in particular have some serious implications in terms of people who don't have the capacity, or not the capacity, everyone has the capacity, but who have not explored that deeply, right, who haven't gone that deep with themselves. >> And one of those books was like a tech book or was like-- >> It was just multiple, no, it was multiple books. And it's not that I would even read all of the books all of the way through. Sometimes I would just pick up a book and I would just open it to a certain page and I would read like a passage or a couple pages, and I'd just feel like that's all I need to read out of that book. It's, you just tune into it. >> When was your first trade on Bitcoin, first buy, 2011? >> You want to know something nuts? People always, people are like, "When did you first buy Bitcoin?" I was not, I didn't. So after I started, once you know, all this knowledge came to me, I just started talking about it, I was like, I've been given some wisdom, I just have to share it. So I started going out into the world and finding podiums and sharing. And that was when someone put a USB full of Bitcoin into my hands. I very rarely, I don't necessarily buy, I've just been gifted a lot. >> Good gifts. >> Toni: They've been great gifts, yeah. >> And then when did you start Coin Telegraph, when did that come online? >> So that was in 2013. I joined, the property had been operable for I think like three or four months. And some guys called me and they said, "We're just really impressed with you "and we want to work with you." And I said, "Well, that's nice," I was like, "But you don't have a business, right?" And they were like, "What do you mean?" And I was like, "Well, you have a blog, right?" And so I went in and I said, essentially like, here's, to scale the property, I was like, "Here's a plan for the next three years. "If we really want to get this property to where "it needs to be." I'm like, "Here are the programs that we need "to institute, here's like this entire, "countries we can be operable in "and then other acquisitions of other properties." I essentially went in and said like, "Here's the business model and the plan at scale," and they were just like, I think they were a little like, the first call that we had, I think they were just like, "We just called you to," it was a bold move, like, "We just called you to offer you something, "and you countered our offer by saying "we don't have a business?" It was one of those things, but they-- >> Well, it was the labor of love for them, right, I mean-- >> Well, for all of us, yeah, for all of us. >> When all you do is you're blogging, you're just sharing. And then you start thinking about, you know, how to grow, and you got to nurture it, you need cash. >> Yes, and so I essentially came in and then started, I was both editor in chief and CEO and co-founder of the property who helped bring in a lot of the network, build the reputation for the brand, create a scaling strategy. A lot of mergers and acquisitions, a lot of franchises and-- >> How many properties did you buy roughly, handful, six, less than six? >> So I would also say that-- >> Little blogs and kind of (mumbles) them together, bring people together, was that the thinking? >> Yeah, you know, what's interesting is media from all shapes and sizes, 15 to 20 offices in 25 different countries. I always say this when I talk about this, a very important lesson that I learned. How do you manage a team of 40 anarchists? You don't, you don't, that's the answer, you don't, you don't even like, you're like oh. I remember when I was like, "We're a team!" And someone was like, "No, we're not, "I don't believe in teams, I work for myself "and I don't need," I was like oh, wow. I was like oh-- >> John: The power of we, no. >> I was just like, all right, but it was a good learning experience, because I was like well, this is the way, these are your needs. So if that's your, I was like, well, let's embrace that, let's embrace the idea-- >> But that's the culture, you can't change it. >> And let's create the economy around that, let's actually do direct incentive for it, if you think that you're, if you want to be in this on your own, then let's say okay, we're going to make this fully free market economics and we're going to have a matter of consensus on whether or not someone who's exploiting the system, you write an article, you send it out, the number of views and shares that it gets from accounts that are, you know, proven verified, that is how much you get out of the bounty that's created from our ad sales, and if the community comes together in a consensus and says that someone wrote an article that was basically exploiting the system, like beer, guns, tits and weed plus Bitcoin and then they just shared it with everyone, then obviously, they would be weighted differently because the community would reach consensus so-- >> Change the incentive system. >> We just, I started, yeah, I started redesigning, essentially, once I had that moment, I was like okay, I was like, well, we really got to change the incentives here then because the incentives are not going to work like that. If that's the, if there's a consensus that that is the way you guys want to do things, then I got to change things around that. All right, cool, and so yeah, it was a really interesting awesome learning experience from like, you know, a team of like, maybe like 20 to 40 into, probably took it up 40, and then with all of the other, you know, companies and franchises, to about 435 people. And then just took the revenue from, yeah, just took, it was like skating revenue and then rocketing revenue. So that was really my role in the growth of the business and we're all, you know, it's amazing to see how these kind of blockchain holacracies work, you know, at a micro scale and at a macro scale. And what it really takes to build a movement, right. And then, in some ways, I guess it'd either become or create a meme. >> Well, I really appreciate the movement you've been supporting, we're here to bring theCUBE to the movement, our second show, third show we've been doing. And getting a lot more this year, as the ecosystem is coming together, the norms are forming, they're storming, they're forming, it's great stuff. You've been a great thought leader, and thanks for sharing the awesome range of topics here for theCUBE. >> For sure. >> Toni Lane here inside theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching our exclusive Puerto Rico coverage of CoinAgenda, we'll be right back. (energetic music)

>>Fly from Houston, Texas. It's the cube covering Grace Hopper celebration of women in computing. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of the Grace Hopper conference here in Houston, Texas. I am your host, Rebecca Knight. We have a great panel today. Uh, three distinguished guests, Jeanette Epps, an aerospace astronaut. Uh, an engineer at NASA, Mimi Valdez, a executive producer on the film, hidden figures and Christina DOJ who is a, I want to call her a rocket scientist. She will not let me, she's an electrical engineer at, at, at NASA. Thank you so much for joining me. Hey Jeanette. I want to start with you. Um, recently president Obama has said we're gonna put men on Mars, men and women, men and women on Mars. How realistic is that? I mean, it's exciting for the, for the rest of us, non astronauts to hear this is, is it realistic? >>It is realistic. And one of the things I love that he, he did that was that it gives a national initiative to go back to Mars. And so that means that people will get more involved in STEM careers, especially girls will get more involved. And it's kinda like, you know what JFK did back in the 60s to give us that push a goal, an end goal to do something. Great. >>And do you think that, you know, he said by 2030, it's not very long from now. I mean, is it going to happen? I mean, what's, >>well right now a witness is working on is we have the NASA Orion program and it's a, uh, a power light capsule that will be launched off of one of the largest rockets bigger than the Saturn five or as big. And so that the mission of NASA, Orion is to take us beyond low earth orbit and go deeper into space. So we're looking at NASA, Orion, potentially maybe being the ship that will go to Mars and you know, maybe we have more work to do, but all of getting the nation onboard with going to Mars will inspire a new generation to do great things that will help us to get to Mars. Even >>Obama has said he loves science as a kid. That was his favorite subject in school. And do you think that it will have this galvanizing effect of, as you said, making sure more little boys and girls are studying STEM? >>Well, I've seen it already with some of the tweets and different things, questions that kids ask me nowadays. I think every kid has in their heart this goal to go to Mars now. And um, I can't go to a conference or anywhere without, uh, some young child asking about Mars and what, what are, how are we going to get there? When are we going to get there? And you know, I think one of my jobs is to inspire them to get involved in STEM and help us to get to Mars. There's a lot of technology that we need to develop and produce so that we can get astronauts to live longer away from the earth surface. We have the propulsion system that can get them there faster and bring them back home long. Will it take, well, it depends on the propulsion system that we developed. So there's a number of things that we're working on to make sure that what president Obama has said will get us to Mars in the 2030s if it's pushed out to a little later, that's fine. We're working on it and we're, we're going forward with them. >>Mimi, I want to talk to you now about the film hidden figures. Uh, we'll be out in some theaters and Christmas wide release in January. It is the story of black women mathematicians working in the 1960s at NASA. How did you find out about this story? Well, I give credits at Donna gelato, one of the producers on the film who optioned the book when it was a book proposal. So before the book was even written, she optioned this the story, and it's just this amazing story that the world doesn't even know about. We all know about John Glenn's mission. He came back a national hero. It was a moment in history that galvanized the world. You know, America winning the space race. But we don't know the story of all these brilliant mathematicians, all these women who actually will really responsible Katherine Johnson specifically who hand calculated those numbers for his cause. >>Everybody, I mean, I think this is such an amazing thing to do. And, and again, we just don't know her story. And as well as Dorothy Vaughn and Mary Jackson, I mean, so many women that worked at NASA that were just, um, they were hidden. You just don't know their stories. So, so the film tells their story, it tells their, um, it tells what they did, how they helped John Glenn. Did John Glenn appreciate that John Glenn actually would not go into space unless Katherine double checked the numbers. Like he wanted her to actually, you know, he, he, he trusted her because this is when the IBM computers were first coming into NASA. So they had started asserted use that and he was like, Hmm, I, I need Catherine to check the numbers before I go into say they were friends, professional colleagues. I mean he just knew who, you know, obviously she, she was really responsible and sort of that whole mission. >>And, and you know, for him it was just sort of like, eh, these computers thing, this was like a new thing at NASA. He's like, I need a human to make sure that these numbers are right. Right. Yeah. So we're excited about the film. Who's in it? Taraji P Henson plays captain Johnson. Octavia Spencer, please. I'm Dorothy Vaughan and Janell Monae. Um, she's a, uh, a musician. This is sort of her first really big role and she plays Mary Jackson. Kevin Costner is the head of the space station. Um, we have really great actors, but I think what was really important to everyone who participated in the film was everyone understood the importance of the story and wanting to make sure that we got it right. And also, you know, movies are supposed to be entertaining, but when they can be also inspirational and educate in some way, the fact that some young girls somewhere may see this movie and decide to pursue a career in math or science or any of the STEM careers is really gratifying to us because that's what we would love to accomplish. >>You know, Christina, you have been at NASA for nine years. Uh, tell me about your style, how you got, how you got to NASA in the first place. So I've always loved space since I was like a young child. I was in fifth grade when I told my parents that I wanted to work for NASA. So really since that point, like that was, you know, my dream. And so I, you know, pursued the math and science. Those were some of my favorite subjects. Um, luckily I had some supportive parents who really like saw that desire in me and kind of nurtured and encouraged me to, Hey, if that's what you want to do, then you go for it. We'll do whatever we can. Um, and then I came across some NASA opportunities in high school. Um, and one of the programs was the high school aerospace scholars program. >>And in that program I kinda got a glimpse into what it was like to be an engineer, to work at NASA. I got to speak with, you know, fight directors and um, flight controllers. And there's so many people who contribute to the space program. And that experience really solidified my desire to pursue STEM, STEM. Um, so I started to electrical engineering and then from there, um, you know, did the internship at NASA and I've enjoyed my career so far. It's been a, it's been a great experience. And so you work on the jet propulsion system of spaceships. Um, I work Lena. Um, I work on the power systems power systems. So you are, what do you do? So, um, as an electrical engineer on power systems, I work on the design of the power system testing. Um, basically everything on the spacecraft is going to need power. >>So I'm responsible for how I need to provide power, how much, um, when we talk about going to Mars, that's a, that's a long duration mission and power is something that, um, you have to budget for. So we need to advance that technology to support these missions that, um, our administration has said we want to go there. How are y'all going to accomplish this? So there's a lot of um, design hands on work and it's, you know, it's a challenge. But I mean, together as a team, we can, I believe that will, you know, meet that goal and be able to deliver a power system that will take us to Mars. So this is a question for rip for really all of you. You're an astronaut, you were working at NASA, you just made a movie to encourage young women to, to, to, to get into the STEM field. Why is it NASA recruiting here at, at, at Grace Hopper and, and should it be, do not, do you want to take this? >>Well, that's a good question. It's not that I'm mass and I don't, it's not that I don't think NASA has a desire to recruit here. I think there's recruiting times where people come out and do that. But I think I'm, one of the things that we do in the astronaut Corps, we try to go out and attend conferences like that and try to inspire students to be interested in NASA to understand what NASA is doing, to understand, you know, the shuttle retired. But we're still flying. In fact, when I fly to space and hopefully in 2018 I'll fly with the Russians. But in the meantime, NASA's building two shadows that would take astronauts to the international space station and NASA, Orion, that'll take us deeper into space. So we want to try to inspire with our stories and get people interested in science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and now even the arts, the arts play a big part of this. The arts play a big part of the well, yeah, I think I'm as a scientist and looking at patterns and things like that, there's a lot of um, people who, um, begin to work in the arts, even if it's building things with their hands and making, sculpting things, painting things. And so there's a lot of artwork that comes into play in science that is >>really refreshing, exciting, count, counterintuitive. I mean, what would you say are the ways we've talked about getting them, getting them interested through, through film. Um, talking about, uh, Obama making this, this grand announcement and Treme, what are some other ways that we can get the next generation into this field? Well, representation is obviously important. I think when people get to see images in the media of these different fields and all the possibilities, I mean every kid on this planet is obsessed with their phone, maybe not realizing like the importance of these STEM careers that are making these phones even possible or even exist. And I think the more that we can expose these careers and all these possibilities, I think it will just be just more beneficial just for humanity in general. I mean, as we know, nothing in this world can exist without math. >>Nothing. So the more that we can sort of encourage young people to see what an incredible career this is in all the possibilities that go into it, I just think we'll be better off as a nation and as a, you know, just globally as a world. Jeanette, I mean, do you have any thoughts about how, what you would advise someone? I mean you started at NASA nine years ago. So I mean, as an engineer I feel like, I mean I am making some contribution, but really the way I feel like I have more impact is through mentoring and you know, participating in those outreach type of activities for, uh, younger students like K through 12. And then also, um, you know, undergraduate like where they're really like trying to figure out what are the career options and STEM. And so that's how I feel I can have an impact there. >>And these movies help because there's a surge of like, like it's inspirational for young students to see this and be like, Oh, I never knew that that was an option. And so we get outreached to NASA, um, our request to, you know, interact with, uh, local schools and communities and kind of, um, you know, do all my lessons or just teaching with them, just talking about kind of like what the career is like. So, um, I mean I hoping that I can contribute in that way for younger, younger people. Janette are, you are an impressive astronaut, but you are also known as a black woman astronaut. Yeah. D do you do, do you bristle at that or do you embrace it? What, what do you, how, what's the responsibility? >>Oh, I totally embrace it. You know, I'm young ladies always ask me, did you have a problem being a black woman and engineering? And I always tell them that, um, I don't have a problem with being a black woman. And if other people do, then that's their problem. I totally embrace it because I'm, one of the things that I didn't realize was that, um, there's still a need to have positive role models and images of yourself. You know, growing up, my mom never taught my twin sister and I that you couldn't do something because you are a female or Brown. But there are a lot of young ladies that actually do experience that. And so having a positive roam out of it, show them that, Hey look, if I can do this, you can do this too. There's no reason you shouldn't be doing this right now yourself. >>So you are a role model. And how do you then also make sure that it's active role modeling and not just sort of standing on a pedestal of. >>One of the things I like to do is like Catherine Johnson and these great ladies that, you know, without them I, you know, I wouldn't be here is you have to do well and you have to perform well. You have to do the same work that your colleagues are doing and don't do less and don't accept less either. And when it comes to the hard work, put in the time, do the work, complete the tasks and make sure you're, you're representing yourself and your group well and you don't want to be accounted as well. You know, she's the one that we've got to help and we've got to do this, but you want to be a contributing member to every group that you're a part of and completing the tasks, doing the same work if not better. I like to say do better work, but you know, you want to be a part of the. >>Yeah. But that puts so much pressure too because it is, it's, it's be a contributor, but also don't mess up because you are under a microscope to some degree because those are, >>you know, messing up isn't, isn't. Um, failure is never, um, should never be. If it's unintentional, that's okay because you always learn from your mistakes and you have to forgive yourself and keep moving forward. If you stop right there because of a failure, um, you wouldn't go anywhere. We all fell. And it's how you respond to it. That matters. >>Yeah. Every failure is an opportunity to learn. And I think, um, you know, yeah. You can't be scared. I mean, the first and foremost is just doing a good job that, cause once, if you're just dedicated and focused on that, then I think great things can happen. And then failure is really a, a buzzword in Silicon Valley too. Right now. It's a fail fast. Um, and this idea, as you were talking about that it's your response to failure that makes a difference. Yeah. And NASA, I became familiar with this famous phrase of failing forward, meaning that yes, you're going to encounter problems, but if you are learning from the, if you're making improvements, you can design something better. So we call it failing forward. And that concept has, I've embraced that comset and it's, you know, I've encountered many failures. I mean, designing new hardware. It's not gonna, you know, work right off the box. And I'm kind of embracing that idea that it's a learning experience. As long as you don't give up as if you're applying what you learned, then that is not a failure. Christina, this is great. Christina DOJ, Mimi Valdez, Jeanette Epps. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been such a having to be here. I'm not worthy. Thank you. This has been Rebecca Knight live coverage of the Grace Hopper conference here in Houston, Texas. We'll be back after this break.