>>mm Welcome to VM World 2021 2 days of virtual discussions on innovation. Multi cloud application modernization, securing your data new ways to work transforming the network expanding to the edge and loads of content to help build your digital business. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cube and with me today is Carol Carpenter who's the chief marketing officer of VM. Where carol Great to see you again. Welcome back to the program. >>Thank you Dave. It's great to be here. >>Okay, well, so when we last talked last year at VM World, I honestly thought we'd be back face to face this year. Seems like we learn more every day every week. Every month. How did this year's event come together? What were your priorities in shaping the program? >>You know, I'm with you. I really hoped we would be together in person this year and here we are, another year of virtual. We are primarily all virtual again, which has some really big benefits in that we're able to reach new audiences who in the past couldn't afford to fly, could afford to take the days And it's taught us a lot. So we really approached this year as how do we create a VM world experience that is filled with digestible bites. You know, the notion that any of us are going to sit still for 3-2 days, three days and pay attention full time. This is a pretty antiquated notion. You know, we all like to to take little bites and tastes of content here and there and so we really designed the whole program to do just that. And with this go ahead. >>No, please carry on. >>No, I was going to say one of the things we really wanted to do this year with the M world. The reason the theme is imagined that is we wanted to show the world that VM World is not about your parents, BM world that this is a company while we're very proud of our virtualization past, what we offer today really spans the gamut as you pointed out everything from networking to security to application development platforms. So it's a it's just a different different company with different products and solutions for customers. >>And I love the whole concept of digestible called stackable bites and love that. And you've put together a pretty impressive lineup. You got superstar names, you got, you got stars inside of our industry and then you you know the tech people might know but you've got well known celebrities. What are you looking forward to this year and you know especially around customer and partner engagements. >>Yeah and thank you for highlighting all of that. Like I am super excited about all the different luminaries who are speaking. I am most excited about the customers and partners. Every session will have a customer's part of it. Either a customer speaking or a customer story or customer quotes really speaking to the value and with that we have hundreds of customers presenting customers. Like some you might expect like Fedex to new sas based customers like toast who provides restaurant software and they just went public to companies like space ape games who provide online games. So a real boy, I think a real diversity of customers um, in terms of their transformations and how they're leveraging the VM ware solutions. And then our partner ecosystem really excited. This year we added a new level of sponsorship to bring in some of the um, I would say younger customers and younger partners, partners like, you know, Reddit and um, you know, couch face and others who are bringing new solutions to market. >>We have some great names, they're toast. I think the local boston company, we've, we've been following them so excited to to hear what they have to say. Now let's talk a little bit about the virtual world, This is your second virtual VM world. I'm interested in what you're doing differently. I want to talk about learning, but, but what are you looking forward to in in, in in that sense? And how has the event grown? >>Well, the event has definitely grown in terms of the platform. I think the expectations in terms of numbers of attendees were expecting, you know, over 100,000. Um, and even in this zoom fatigued world, we still expect high level of engagement. The biggest changes. We have made one the more stackable content that we've been talking about two. We focused this year on a high level of interactivity, so we have slack channels set up for almost every session. We expect both speakers, customers prospects to really engage. And and then third area that's different is we amped up all of the different activities. We know that people want to interact and network in other ways. So, you know, some of the usual things like the bourbon tasting, the wine tasting, but also yoga classes and opportunities to learn from a magician, Even golf tips for those of us who love golfing, um really trying to mix it up and create a higher level of interactivity. In addition to all of the platforms you expect for hands on, learning, hands on labs, practitioner classes, All that's still there. We just wanted to increase the level of engagement. >>That's super fun, really innovating in that regard. You're right. I mean it's so easy to just to multitask and get lost. But if I know like if I'm really into yoga or I want some golf tip, I'm gonna come back at that time and it'll, you'll re engage me. So I love that, you know, the cube, we have a unique privilege of participating in a very wide spectrum of events as you can imagine. And we were deeply integrated carol into one of the industry's first big hybrid events this year at mobile world Congress this >>summer. We thought >>that was like the light of the end of the tunnel, but of course we've seen a pullback of sorts but we're still doing some physical, we do a lot of virtual, we were doing these hybrid events. We've been involved in events where they, you know, the host and the guests are there with no audience. So I'm curious as to how you see the evolution of conferences in this post isolation era. What's the learnings? What's changed and what does the future look like for events? >>Yeah, I mean I've talked with a lot of my industry peers about this, including the folks over at Mobile World Congress. Um, I don't think the large, the monolithic event with hundreds of thousands of people um, is in the cards for our near future. And so we've been rethinking like what does a physical event look like or a set of physical events look like next year. That would have an online component. We're we've always had an online component. So we certainly are not. We won't be shedding that anytime soon. The ability to reach new audiences. New targets, new user groups, we absolutely will keep that. I think in terms of the physical presence is exactly what you said. It will be hybrid. Um, we are looking at a series, don't quote me on this because we haven't finalized, but we are considering a series of in person, more local, more regional events with smaller groups. People still want that engagement, customers still want a network and talk with each other. Our users want to talk to each other are vima groups are our new groups like our DEvoPS loop group. The deVOPS folks, they all still want a network, so we want to provide that. But in a smaller, safer, more localized setting. And I think that's the future for a lot of companies. It puts a bigger toll and, and makes more work for us as the company who's hosting, meaning you and you too Dave, you'll be hopefully traveling with us two more of these locations, but it creates a little more strain on the team who is posting. >>You know, it's funny as you well know when we first started doing virtual events, like I said, we've always been been virtual, but largely it was okay. Here are the keynotes, you know, come watch. Uh, and now you're like, say you gave great examples of how you're increasing the engagement, getting much more creative and, and, and it was a lot unknown last year, especially like class March. It was like, okay and virtual events are harder in many respects than physical events and so much of the process has changed different roles. And I think we're seeing the same thing now with with hybrid, there's a lot that's unknown and a lot of trial and error, a lot of experimentation and, but I think at the end of the day, you can actually have the best of both worlds. You can get your what you described, I would, I would call it a VIP locally. V. I. P. Event maybe even role based they have the technical folks, it used to have conferences within conferences, you have your C. I. O. Event, you'd have your event and so I see a kind of return to that maybe I could say smaller and and safer and then a a much much larger audience and in the case it's different in terms of you know converting those into loyal customers and so forth. But but I think overall it's a much much bigger pond ocean that we're playing in. >>Absolutely I think of it as we're going to bring the um world too our customers and prospects and partners and you know it's pretty amazing. The other part of this you asked earlier about like speakers and some of the luminaries the fact is getting everyone to travel to one place at one point in time always had its share of logistical challenges and being able to, you know, some of it can be recorded in advance some of it will be in person. Like one thing we did this year is we recorded our ceo Ragu with six other ceos of hyper scholars talking about the future of multi cloud and what it means and the role that VM ware plays in this. That's pretty hard to do. Like to get all six of them together in one place at the same time. You know how everyone's schedules so compacted so that's what virtual gives us an opportunity to do reach, have more interesting speakers, lots of different speakers who potentially couldn't all travel. >>You don't want to miss that, that event or replay. Um, let's talk about your role as chief marketing officer. You're obviously putting your fingerprints on this new ever you new era. You had no choice you could have entered in. Yeah. We always talked about digital now is like if you're not a digital business, you're out of business and you're, you're living it now. But but I'm interested in in your strategy for global marketing, the organization, The brand in the coming decade. Like you say, the next 10 years are going to be like the last 10 years. >>That's right. Well let's talk about the brand. So VM ware, The name itself is so tightly associated to virtualization and VMS, right, Which is an amazing history and the story of success. That was really what we like to talk about is chapter One, We pioneered server virtualization laying the foundation for what today is the cloud. And then chapter two, we went bigger and broader and we virtualize the entire data center and now here we are, we're in chapter three and this is the next phase of our brand and our promise to customers, which is really focused on customer based innovation and helping our customers innovate and multi cloud. We really believe it's the center of gravity for everything we do. It's in our DNA. It's what how we take constraints which is a very multi cloud can be complex. There are challenges of you know are for customers operating in a multi cloud world. How do we take that help them turn it into an asset, How do we help them take that and give them freedom and control? And that's what our brand is about. It's about the ant is that you can help your developers move faster and retain enterprise control. It's that you can have enterprise apps on any cloud and you can have control and cost savings and enterprise management. So that's what the brand is about. That power of aunt and um and um in terms of how our marketing team is evolving a big piece is exactly what you said. You know just digital everything digital first customers want to learn try buy online and as a company you know VM ware we're shifting our business model from on premise license software to more assassin subscription services And you can see that in our earnings and how we've been shifting and it's quite exciting because with assassin subscription based model you know it's all about customers getting full value in helping customers achieve their value and consumption. So for our marketing team we have shifted from okay we want to get you to the sale and one and done to how do we really drive a full life cycle with a customer, how do we help them land and expand and use the products and get value from them and have a meaningful relationship. It's much more um of a full life cycle. So we're really excited. We, we love what we're doing um particularly on the acquisition side, getting helping customers to learn try by more easily in a digital world and then being able to follow them through with some physical, physical engagement, uh events like the um world and really helping them get the most value out of the products. >>VM ware is really quite an amazing company I'm super excited for as one individual has been following this company for a long time to see the next chapter and the thing a couple of things you mentioned innovation and I see so many companies today, they may have a big customer base, they just, it's easy for them. Easy quotes to milk that customer base and put out new products that sort of lifecycle products. Multi cloud is challenging and one of the hallmarks of VM ware is it's always had a leader that deeply understands technology. You've done that again with with Ragu and so engineering and really drives that innovation. So when I think about cloud generally and you know, there was some start stops with VMware's cloud strategy but then you said, you know what the cloud is an opportunity, it's a gift, we're gonna lean in and then you develop some really interesting partnerships like you said, you got all the big cloud companies up up on stage here this year. And so multi cloud is going to require deep engineering in a vision to really bring that uh, together. And I think, you know, VM ware is, he's one of a handful, you know, small handful of companies that can actually pull that off. >>Well, thank you. Dave, we think so for sure. I mean, we have the history and the foundation and the relationships to be able to do that. I think that um what's what's hard sometimes is that, you know, people may or may not know all the different things we do this multi cloud chapter is really a, It's the reality, 75% of our customers are operating living in a multi cloud world. And if you look at some of the data, it looks like 80, are going that way. And so how do we help them simplify? How do we help customers simplify and innovate for the future? It's definitely in our DNA it's how we take constraints and turn them into an asset for our customers. We, we really believe that it shouldn't be so complex and that we want our customers to have flexibility and choice used to be able to pick which application for which cloud and at any point in time change your mind as well when there are new capabilities on those clouds. And for us, you know, you've hit it on the head, we did realize and we did learn that we don't really want to compete with the hyper scale ear's, what they're doing is pretty unique. What we want to do is help customers consume and accelerate their innovation faster. >>Well, I love the messages and and really appreciate carol your time explaining to our cube audience, going to your vision is the CMO. And you know, we look forward to an interesting chapter ahead with hybrid events, hybrid cloud, multi cloud and all the rest. Thanks so much for coming back in the cube. >>Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Dave >>You're very welcome and thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more great content to cubes coverage of VM World 2021. The virtual edition will be right back. >>Mhm

>>Yeah. >>Hello. Welcome to the Special Cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John for a host of the Cube. We have a conversation around a I for the enterprise. What this means I got two great guests. John Finelli, Vice President, virtual GPU at NVIDIA and Maurizio D V D C T o University of Pisa in Italy. Uh, Practitioner, customer partner, um, got VM world coming up. A lot of action happening in the enterprise. John. Great to see you. Nice to meet you. Remotely coming in from Italy for this remote. >>John. Thanks for having us on again. >>Yeah. Nice to meet >>you. I wish we could be in person face to face, but that's coming soon. Hopefully, John, you were talking. We were just talking about before we came on camera about AI for the enterprise. And the last time I saw you in person was in Cuba interview. We were talking about some of the work you guys were doing in AI. It's gotten so much stronger and broader and the execution of an video, the success you're having set the table for us. What is the ai for the enterprise conversation frame? >>Sure. So, um, we, uh we've been working with enterprises today on how they can deliver a I or explore AI or get involved in a I, um uh, in a standard way in the way that they're used to managing and operating their data centre. Um, writing on top of you know, they're Dell servers with B M or V sphere. Um, so that AI feels like a standard workload that night organisation can deliver to their engineers and data scientists. And then the flip side of that, of course, is ensuring that engineers and data scientists get the workloads position to them or have access to them in the way that they need them. So it's no longer a trouble ticket that you have to submit to, I t and you know, count the hours or days or weeks until you you can get new hardware, right By being able to pull it into the mainstream data centre. I can enable self service provisioning for those folks. So we actually we make a I more consumable or easier to manage for I t administrators and then for the engineers and the data scientists, etcetera. We make it easy for them to get access to those resources so they can get to their work right away. >>Quite progress in the past two years. Congratulations on that and looking. It's only the beginning is Day one Mercy. I want to ask you about what's going on as the CTO University piece of what's happening down there. Tell us a little bit about what's going on. You have the centre of excellence there. What does that mean? What does that include? >>Uh, you know, uh, University of Peace. Are you one of one of the biggest and oldest in Italy? Uh, if you have to give you some numbers is around 50 K students and 3000 staff between, uh, professors resurgence and that cabinet receive staff. So I we are looking into data operation of the centres and especially supports for scientific computing. And, uh, this is our our daily work. Let's say this, uh, taking us a lot of times, but, you know, we are able to, uh, reserve a merchant percentage of our time, Uh, for r and D, And this is where the centre of excellence is, Uh, is coming out. Uh, so we are always looking into new kinds of technologies that we can put together to build new solutions to do next generation computing gas. We always say we are looking for the right partners to do things together. And at the end of the day is the work that is good for us is good for our partners and typically, uh, ends in a production system for our university. So is the evolution of the scientific computing environment that we have. >>Yeah. And you guys have a great track record and reputation of, you know, R and D, testing software, hardware combinations and sharing those best practises, you know, with covid impact in the world. Certainly we see it on the supply chain side. Uh, and John, we heard Jensen, your CEO and video talk multiple keynotes. Now about software, uh, and video being a software company. Dell, you mentioned Dale and VM Ware. You know, Covid has brought this virtualisation world back. And now hybrid. Those are words that we used basically in the text industry. Now it's you're hearing hybrid and virtualisation kicked around in real world. So it's ironic that vm ware and El, uh, and the Cube eventually all of us together doing more virtual stuff. So with covid impacting the world, how does that change you guys? Because software is more important. You gotta leverage the hardware you got, Whether it's Dell or in the cloud, this is a huge change. >>Yeah. So, uh, as you mentioned organisations and enterprises, you know, they're looking at things differently now, Um, you know, the idea of hybrid. You know, when you talk to tech folks and we think about hybrid, we always think about you know, how the different technology works. Um, what we're hearing from customers is hybrid, you know, effectively translates into, you know, two days in the office, three days remote, you know, in the future when they actually start going back to the office. So hybrid work is actually driving the need for hybrid I t. Or or the ability to share resources more effectively. Um, And to think about having resources wherever you are, whether you're working from home or you're in the office that day, you need to have access to the same resources. And that's where you know the the ability to virtualize those resources and provide that access makes that hybrid part seamless >>mercy What's your world has really changed. You have students and faculty. You know, Things used to be easy in the old days. Physical in this network. That network now virtual there. You must really be having him having impact. >>Yeah, we have. We have. Of course. As you can imagine, a big impact, Uh, in any kind of the i t offering, uh, from, uh, design new networking technologies, deploying new networking technologies, uh, new kind of operation we find. We found it at them. We were not able anymore to do burr metal operations directly, but, uh, from the i t point of view, uh, we were how can I say prepared in the sense that, uh, we ran from three or four years parallel, uh, environment. We have bare metal and virtual. So as you can imagine, traditional bare metal HPC cluster D g d g X machines, uh, multi GPU s and so on. But in parallel, we have developed, uh, visual environment that at the beginning was, as you can imagine, used, uh, for traditional enterprise application, or VD. I, uh, we have a significant significant arise on a farm with the grid for remote desktop remote pull station that we are using for, for example, uh, developing a virtual classroom or visual go stations. And so this is was typical the typical operation that we did the individual world. But in the same infrastructure, we were able to develop first HPC individual borders of utilisation of the HPC resources for our researchers and, uh, at the end, ai ai offering and ai, uh, software for our for our researchers, you can imagine our vehicle infrastructure as a sort of white board where we are able to design new solution, uh, in a fast way without losing too much performance. And in the case of the AI, we will see that we the performance are almost the same at the bare metal. But with all the flexibility that we needed in the covid 19 world and in the future world, too. >>So a couple things that I want to get John's thoughts as well performance you mentioned you mentioned hybrid virtual. How does VM Ware and NVIDIA fit into all this as you put this together, okay, because you bring up performance. That's now table stakes. He's leading scale and performance are really on the table. everyone's looking at it. How does VM ware an NVIDIA John fit in with the university's work? >>Sure. So, um, I think you're right when it comes to, uh, you know, enterprises or mainstream enterprises beginning their initial foray into into a I, um there are, of course, as performance in scale and also kind of ease of use and familiarity are all kind of things that come into play in terms of when an enterprise starts to think about it. And, um, we have a history with VM Ware working on this technology. So in 2019, we introduced our virtual compute server with VM Ware, which allowed us to effectively virtual is the Cuda Compute driver at last year's VM World in 2020 the CEOs of both companies got together and made an announcement that we were going to bring a I R entire video AI platform to the Enterprise on top of the sphere. And we did that, Um, starting in March this year, we we we finalise that with the introduction of GM wears V, Sphere seven, update two and the early access at the time of NVIDIA ai Enterprise. And, um, we have now gone to production with both of those products. And so customers, Um, like the University of Pisa are now using our production capabilities. And, um, whenever you virtualize in particular and in something like a I where performances is really important. Um, the first question that comes up is, uh doesn't work and And how quickly does it work Or or, you know, from an I t audience? A lot of times you get the How much did it slow down? And and and so we We've worked really closely from an NVIDIA software perspective and a bm wear perspective. And we really talk about in media enterprise with these fair seven as optimist, certified and supported. And the net of that is, we've been able to run the standard industry benchmarks for single node as well as multi note performance, with about maybe potentially a 2% degradation in performance, depending on the workload. Of course, it's very different, but but effectively being able to trade that performance for the accessibility, the ease of use, um, and even using things like we realise, automation for self service for the data scientists, Um and so that's kind of how we've been pulling it together for the market. >>Great stuff. Well, I got to ask you. I mean, people have that reaction of about the performance. I think you're being polite. Um, around how you said that shows the expectation. It's kind of sceptical, uh, and so I got to ask you, the impact of this is pretty significant. What is it now that customers can do that? They couldn't or couldn't feel they had before? Because if the expectations as well as it worked well, I mean, there's a fast means. It works, but like performance is always concerned. What's different now? What what's the bottom line impact on what country do now that they couldn't do before. >>So the bottom line impact is that AI is now accessible for the enterprise across there. Called their mainstream data centre, enterprises typically use consistent building blocks like the Dell VX rail products, right where they have to use servers that are common standard across the data centre. And now, with NVIDIA Enterprise and B M R V sphere, they're able to manage their AI in the same way that they're used to managing their data centre today. So there's no retraining. There's no separate clusters. There isn't like a shadow I t. So this really allows an enterprise to efficiently deploy um, and cost effectively Deploy it, uh, it without because there's no performance degradation without compromising what their their their data scientists and researchers are looking for. And then the flip side is for the data science and researcher, um, using some of the self service automation that I spoke about earlier, they're able to get a virtual machine today that maybe as a half a GPU as their models grow, they do more exploring. They might get a full GPU or or to GPS in a virtual machine. And their environment doesn't change because it's all connected to the back end storage. And so for the for the developer and the researcher, um, it makes it seamless. So it's really kind of a win for both Nike and for the user. And again, University of Pisa is doing some amazing things in terms of the workloads that they're doing, Um, and, uh and, uh, and are validating that performance. >>Weigh in on this. Share your opinion on or your reaction to that, What you can do now that you couldn't do before. Could you share your experience? >>Our experience is, uh, of course, if you if you go to your, uh, data scientists or researchers, the idea of, uh, sacrificing four months to flexibility at the beginning is not so well accepted. It's okay for, uh, for the Eid management, As John was saying, you have people that is know how to deal with the virtual infrastructure, so nothing changed for them. But at the end of the day, we were able to, uh, uh, test with our data. Scientists are researchers veteran The performance of us almost similar around really 95% of the performance for the internal developer developer to our work clothes. So we are not dealing with benchmarks. We have some, uh, work clothes that are internally developed and apply to healthcare music generator or some other strange project that we have inside and were able to show that the performance on the beautiful and their metal world were almost the same. We, the addition that individual world, you are much more flexible. You are able to reconfigure every finger very fast. You are able to design solution for your researcher, uh, in a more flexible way. An effective way we are. We were able to use the latest technologies from Dell Technologies and Vidia. You can imagine from the latest power edge the latest cuts from NVIDIA. The latest network cards from NVIDIA, like the blue Field to the latest, uh, switches to set up an infrastructure that at the end of the day is our winning platform for our that aside, >>a great collaboration. Congratulations. Exciting. Um, get the latest and greatest and and get the new benchmarks out their new playbooks. New best practises. I do have to ask you marriage, if you don't mind me asking why Look at virtualizing ai workloads. What's the motivation? Why did you look at virtualizing ai work clothes? >>Oh, for the sake of flexibility Because, you know, uh, in the latest couple of years, the ai resources are never enough. So we are. If you go after the bare metal, uh, installation, you are going into, uh, a world that is developing very fastly. But of course, you can afford all the bare metal, uh, infrastructure that your data scientists are asking for. So, uh, we decided to integrate our view. Dual infrastructure with AI, uh, resources in order to be able to, uh, use in different ways in a more flexible way. Of course. Uh, we have a We have a two parallels world. We still have a bare metal infrastructure. We are growing the bare metal infrastructure. But at the same time, we are growing our vehicle infrastructure because it's flexible, because we because our our stuff, people are happy about how the platform behaviour and they know how to deal them so they don't have to learn anything new. So it's a sort of comfort zone for everybody. >>I mean, no one ever got hurt virtualizing things that makes it makes things go better faster building on on that workloads. John, I gotta ask you, you're on the end video side. You You see this real up close than video? Why do people look at virtualizing ai workloads is the unification benefit. I mean, ai implies a lot of things, implies you have access to data. It implies that silos don't exist. I mean, that doesn't mean that's hard. I mean, is this real people actually looking at this? How is it working? >>Yeah. So? So again, um you know for all the benefits and activity today AI brings a I can be pretty complex, right? It's complex software to set up and to manage. And, um, within the day I enterprise, we're really focusing in on ensuring that it's easier for organisations to use. For example Um, you know, I mentioned you know, we we had introduced a virtual compute server bcs, um uh, two years ago and and that that has seen some some really interesting adoption. Some, uh, enterprise use cases. But what we found is that at the driver level, um, it still wasn't accessible for the majority of enterprises. And so what we've done is we've built upon that with NVIDIA Enterprise and we're bringing in pre built containers that remove some of the complexities. You know, AI has a lot of open source components and trying to ensure that all the open source dependencies are resolved so you can get the AI developers and researchers and data scientists. Actually doing their work can be complex. And so what we've done is we've brought these pre built containers that allow you to do everything from your initial data preparation data science, using things like video rapids, um, to do your training, using pytorch and tensorflow to optimise those models using tensor rt and then to deploy them using what we call in video Triton Server Inference in server. Really helping that ai loop become accessible, that ai workflow as something that an enterprise can manage as part of their common core infrastructure >>having the performance and the tools available? It's just a huge godsend people love. That only makes them more productive and again scales of existing stuff. Okay, great stuff. Great insight. I have to ask, What's next one's collaboration? This is one of those better together situations. It's working. Um, Mauricio, what's next for your collaboration with Dell VM Ware and video? >>We will not be for sure. We will not stop here. Uh, we are just starting working on new things, looking for new development, uh, looking for the next beast. Come, uh, you know, the digital world is something that is moving very fast. Uh, and we are We will not We will not stop here because because they, um the outcome of this work has been a very big for for our research group. And what John was saying This the fact that all the software stock for AI are simplified is something that has been, uh, accepted. Very well, of course you can imagine researching is developing new things. But for people that needs, uh, integrated workflow. The work that NVIDIA has done in the development of software package in developing containers, that gives the end user, uh, the capabilities of running their workloads is really something that some years ago it was unbelievable. Now, everything is really is really easy to manage. >>John mentioned open source, obviously a big part of this. What are you going to? Quick, Quick follow if you don't mind. Are you going to share your results so people can can look at this so they can have an easier path to AI? >>Oh, yes, of course. All the all the work, The work that is done at an ideal level from University of Visa is here to be shared. So we we as, uh, as much as we have time to write down we are. We are trying to find a way to share the results of the work that we're doing with our partner, Dell and NVIDIA. So for sure will be shared >>well, except we'll get that link in the comments, John, your thoughts. Final thoughts on the on the on the collaboration, uh, with the University of Pisa and Delvian, where in the video is is all go next? >>Sure. So So with University of Pisa, We're you know, we're absolutely, uh, you know, grateful to Morocco and his team for the work they're doing and the feedback they're sharing with us. Um, we're learning a lot from them in terms of things we can do better and things that we can add to the product. So that's a fantastic collaboration. Um, I believe that Mauricio has a session at the M World. So if you want to actually learn about some of the workloads, um, you know, they're doing, like, music generation. They're doing, you know, covid 19 research. They're doing deep, multi level, uh, deep learning training. So there's some really interesting work there, and so we want to continue that partnership. University of Pisa, um, again, across all four of us, uh, university, NVIDIA, Dell and VM Ware. And then on the tech side, you know, for our enterprise customers, um, you know, one of the things that we actually didn't speak much about was, um I mentioned that the product is optimised certified and supported, and I think that support cannot be understated. Right? So as enterprises start to move into these new areas, they want to know that they can pick up the phone and call in video or VM ware. Adele, and they're going to get support for these new workloads as they're running them. Um, we were also continuing, uh, you know, to to think about we spent a lot of time today on, like, the developer side of things and developing ai. But the flip side of that, of course, is that when those ai apps are available or ai enhanced apps, right, Pretty much every enterprise app today is adding a I capabilities all of our partners in the enterprise software space and so you can think of a beady eye enterprises having a runtime component so that as you deploy your applications into the data centre, they're going to be automatically take advantage of the GPS that you have there. And so we're seeing this, uh, future as you're talking about the collaboration going forward, where the standard data centre building block still maintains and is going to be something like a VX rail two U server. But instead of just being CPU storage and RAM, they're all going to go with CPU, GPU, storage and RAM. And that's going to be the norm. And every enterprise application is going to be infused with AI and be able to take advantage of GPS in that scenario. >>Great stuff, ai for the enterprise. This is a great QB conversation. Just the beginning. We'll be having more of these virtualizing ai workloads is real impacts data scientists impacts that compute the edge, all aspects of the new environment we're all living in. John. Great to see you, Maurizio here to meet you and all the way in Italy looking for the meeting in person and good luck in your session. I just got a note here on the session. It's at VM World. Uh, it's session 22 63 I believe, um And so if anyone's watching, Want to check that out? Um, love to hear more. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Thanks for having us. Thanks to >>its acute conversation. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. We'll talk to you soon. Yeah,

(upbeat introductory music) >> Welcome back to VMworld 2021. My name is Dave Vellante and right now we're going to talk to one of VMware's partners and unpack how containers and cloud native development processes and tools are changing the way we think about managing storage. And specifically, we're going to dig into the partnership between VMware and Portworx company acquired by Pure Storage last September. And with me is Michael Ferranti, who's a senior director of product marketing at Portworx, which as said, is now part of Pure Storage. Michael, welcome back to theCUBE. Good to see you again. >> Hey, great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Now, Michael, if you're in storage, you got to partner with VMware. So that's always been an important relationship for Pure, and of course that's carried over to Portworx, but how does Portworx work with VMware? Where does it fit within the VMware ecosystem? And, and, you know, what's your point of view on, on VMware's Kubernetes play? We'll, we'll come back to that, but, but how do you fit in? >> How do we fit in yet? Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, customers who are building modern applications are often doing it on Kubernetes platforms and VM-ware has a fantastic Kubernetes platform with Tansu and, you know, customers when they run applications that have data on Kubernetes, they have certain requirements around data protection around data security, data mobility, and Portworx has a platform that solves those problems for customers on any Kubernetes platform in regardless of infrastructure. So, so a VMware customer is saying, you know what? I love the idea of being able to run Tansu across my on-prem data center and my cloud footprint. And I want to move my databases, or between those environments, or, you know, maybe just make a backup of my database and put it in the cloud. Well, when they add Portworx into their Tansu environment, they get the ability to do those types of things, data protection, data mobility. And so we help customers expand their Tansu footprint by solving the requirements that come along with modern applications. >> Yeah. And that's important because as we've covered extensively in theCUBE in the early days of containers, well containers have been around forever, but the, the early days of modern containers, if you will, you know, the applications, the data was a femoral kind of throw away if you will, but, but over time it's become more, more stateful requiring better security and governance and recovery. And the like, so Michael, what's your point of view on VMware's Kubernete play, you talked about Tansu, it's a big part of the strategy. It's an ongoing topic of conversation in the community and there's other solutions of course, like OpenShift, which, which also runs on VMware. What's your perspective on VMware's progression? How they're innovating with Kubernetes orchestration specifically? >> Well, I think VMware is making a lot of smart moves and you know, other players on the market should not buy a discount. I think, you know, there's a lot of interest in Tansu and, you know, we're having conversations and we're kind of expanding our relationship with VMware to solve a broader swath of those use cases. So I think it's going to be a compelling offer in the market. That's what makes this ecosystem so fun is that there is, you know, there are multiple, there are multiple solutions from the cloud providers, from the kind of independent kind of non-cloud associated platform vendors like VMware or Red Hat, but that makes it really exciting. >> Let's back up a bit, maybe talk about some of the big picture trends and maybe some of the challenges. Portworx. You were early on in the management of storage for containers. And I got to say you personally, and I mean that, you created a new distribution channel through developers and dev-op teams who, they became really influential in storage decisions, which they never were before. >> Yep. >> That's a completely new dynamic. So maybe talk about the evolution of storage for containers that you've witnessed. Where do we come from? Where are we today and where are we headed? >> Yeah, I mean, what's interesting is that so on a certain level, what works is a storage, a storage solution for containers. In fact, don't call us the gold standard of Kubernetes storage, really proud of that. Love any time someone calls you a gold standard, but here's the thing, are the people that buy Portworx don't typically buy storage, these are platform, architects, they're dev-ops engineers, and what they need is they need to consume storage the same way that they needed to consume, compute in network, but they're not storage administrators. And so what Portworx did, and other companies in the ecosystem is they've given an API driven self-service experience or what were classically ticket based infrastructure of purchases. And that has accelerated developer's ability to, to build and run applications. And especially with Kubernetes, being able to orchestrate that. And I think now, even within the VMware ecosystem where VMware clearly has strong relationships with the typical infrastructure buyers, but now those infrastructure buyers are seeing what their, what their dev-ops peers are doing. And they're saying, "Hey, we want that too. We want API driven. We want self-service, we don't like tickets anymore than you do." And so being able to kind of solve enterprise level requirements on whether it's around data protection or data security, but in our model that that allows for self-service in, in API driven-ness, that's not a word, really opens up a lot of possibilities. And I think in some ways it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because when you can solve enterprise level requirements, but also provide agility, then people want as much of it as you can possibly provide them. >> So that, that dev-ops mindset that train has left the station. It's got a lot of momentum. It's not, we're not going to flip that. So what happens in your view to the role of that storage admin that you talk about this, he or she does it that they widened their scope? Does that, does their activities, does it evolve? Does there go away? Did they become, did they become ops-dev pros? How do you see that? >> Yeah, it's a, it's a great, it's a great question. And we've been thinking a lot about this. We actually have a new product out called Portworx Data Services. And what it is is it's a database as a service platform for Kubernetes. So imagine you're running Portworx on top of, on top of Tansu and what your, what your company wants to do, what IT wants to do, is provide a service catalog to developers internally, where they can click a button and have an elastic search cluster, or click a button and, you know, Postgres database, what now these storage administrators can actually become a SRES, which is kind of, you know, that's, that's what we call these really senior dev-ops engineers at places like Google and Twitter and Uber, where you're actually responsible for using code and software to run applications. And so with services like PDS there, those individuals can, can uplevel their value within the organization and provide a bigger impact. >> Yeah, I love that. So they're going from basically pulling tickets, you know, putting out fires, dealing with paper cuts to actually having a much more strategic role within the organization. >> Exactly. From infrastructure to applications. I mean, applications is where the business value always is, and you need agile infrastructure in order to run agile applications. But if you only solve, if you only have agile infrastructure, then you still haven't solved a business problem and PDS is enabling our customers to solve those real business problems. >> Well, that leads me into my next question, because a lot of organizations of course have renewed their focus on digital drive. Every organization has, has no choice if you're not digital business, you're out of business. But, but what I mean there is we were kind of forced into digital last year and, and now organizations are stepping back and they're being more planful. So there's an emphasis on modernizing infrastructure and applications. What's the role that you see of Kubernetes and VMs in that shift to modernizing the, the infrastructure apps and the business? >> Yeah. And so what we saw in the pandemic is companies that had to do more with less. And despite that those that adopted Kubernetes were able to accelerate application development, they were able to scale their applications faster. In fact, we have one customer, Roblox, a massively popular online gaming platform for kind of, you know, a tween age kids. They actually IPO-D during the pandemic in the first week that kind of that March timeframe, the beginning of the pandemic, they scaled in a single month, what they had scaled in the entire previous year. And the only way they were able to do that was with these modern architectures. So companies have had firsthand experience saying, okay, when we, when we build cloud native, when we use microservices, when we use Kubernetes, we can scale faster, we can get to the market quicker. And so let's keep those learnings and let's accelerate them. And so, you know, the reason we're doing a pure validated design with, with, with Tansu and Portworx is to help the VMware ecosystem take advantage as well of those modern architectures so that they can get the benefits, not just of the agile infrastructure stack provided by VMware, but also the, the applications here that goes along with it. >> So, I mean, you made the point before, it's all about the applications and take that further. It's all about the, the value that you, the time to value that you can get out of deploying applications. So based on what you just said about those with, versus those without, during the pandemic, that begs the question, why wouldn't everybody have done that? So the question is what are the biggest challenges that you're seeing in terms of adopting and deploying Kubernetes in production? >> Yeah. So actually I have some data that I can share on us. We just did a survey of 500 IT pros across the US and UK with significant knowledge of their company's Kubernetes strategy who are currently running data services on Kubernetes. And so we asked them, "how's that going for you?" And what they told us is basically what I, what I just said earlier that they're 55% can get apps to market faster. 50% of their developers are more, more efficient. And actually a third of those say in addition, we're actually able to reduce our, our IT infrastructure costs. But why? Why isn't everybody doing it? And as we ask those questions and they're struggling with business requirements around backup and recovery, data mobility, data security. And I think that is that's the missing piece, which is when you can figure it out. And, you know, if you're Uber or you're, you know, you're Facebook, you can hire engineers to figure anything out, right? Given enough time and budget, you can solve anything with computers, but for the vast majority of organizations, they need a solution to enable them to have the same outcomes as the companies who can build everything themselves. And so with, you know, with Portworx Data Services by, by adding Portworx into your Tansu environment, you actually get kind of quote unquote for free, a lot of those business requirements that are, that are holding back enterprise adoption of critical applications within the Kubernetes ecosystem. And as a result, then you can accelerate a larger portion of your application portfolio. >> Hey Michael, so one of the good things about virtual events, particularly VMworld, is you don't have to fly out on a Saturday, a Sunday and come back on a Friday. The flip side of that is you don't get the hallway track, you know, so it's an awesome event. It really kind of kicks off the fall season. So help the audience. What are you looking for at VMworld 2021 that's relevant to your space? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I'm interested in anything that really kind of, you know, helps customers figure out how to really embrace hybrid and multi-cloud. I mean, it feels a little bit like it's, it's the infrastructure week of the political world that it's all, we're always talking about it, but it's never happening, but I'm actually seeing a lot of, a lot of movement to suggest both in our own customer base as well on new products that are coming to market that are really helping customers take advantage of this multi and hybrid cloud world. So I think it's really happening. So I'm looking for announcements around that. I'm also always interested in security because I think, you know, the online world is just a more and more dangerous place every day, whether it's ransom ware attacks or other more traditional security threats. And so I think, you know, as a community, we need to figure out ways in which we can both enable customers to move faster, deliver apps more quickly, scale them more quickly, but also make them more secure. And that's why it was really hard to see on our survey that when people apply automation through platforms like Tansu or Kubernetes more broadly, that they actually get security benefits in addition to kind of the, you know, the scale and the productivity benefits. So I'm looking for more announcements to come out on that front as well. >> If I could follow up on that, because historically the more secure you are, the less flexibility you have, the reverse is true. The more flexibility you give users, the less secure they are. Now, I'm hearing that that may not apply in the case of, well, actually, probably the answer is it probably does apply in the case of Kubernetes and containers, but that's why they need Portworx. But, but square that circle for me, because. >> Yeah, so it, there is usually a trade-off it's, you know, we really value security, so we're going to slow down and we're going, going to take a very, you know, progressive approach to rolling out changes to securing access, to limiting, you know, who can have access to data, et cetera. The, the flip side is, you know, it's move fast and break things, kind of the mantra of Silicon valley, which, you know, you, you say that to a financial institution on the east coast, and they're going to kind of roll your eyes and say, "what are you smoking?" So I, there is a way to solve it and computers are, can, can take the very, very deliberate approach except they do it extremely fast. So it doesn't look as deliberate. So basically what I'm saying is you can build in security best practices, but then use fleets of servers to run all of those checks, to make sure that the person who is trying to access the system is the one in my enterprise off system that should be able to access that system. And so you can basically get manual people-based checks out of the way, because you're leveraging automation that is doing those tests. It's not like we're, we're, we're letting things be open. It's just, we're leveraging computers or the things that they're really good at. And that's how you square that circle, which automation enables you to put in place more checks than you can do manually, but they happen a lot faster. And so you end up getting the best of both worlds and kind of breaking this longstanding tension between agility and security. >> And in a key linchpin of that, I'm assuming is APIs that allow you to connect to whatever the best of breed, identity governance and access management system you want to use. >> Exactly. So we have one example is we have Key-X Secure. So this is all about role based access controls and encryption for your mission, critical data that's running on convenience. Well, we have APIs for that and we, and, you know, we build it into things like Portworx Data Services. And build it into things like our storage boxes. So all a dev-ops engineer has to do is say, yeah, I want this app to be secure, meaning encrypted, and that's going to follow my role based access controls that I'm defining in my corporate off system. And then it's automatically applied. That's really, the key is something is only secured if you actually do it. And a lot of times, because it's so cumbersome, either developers look for work-arounds, or they just, they basically don't do it. It gets bolted on at the end. The kind of phrase of art within the security shift left bring more of that stuff earlier. But I think it applies not just to security, but also to data protection, to data mobility. Let's build all of that stuff in right from the beginning. And that's one of the big design principles of Portworx. >> One of the discussions we're always having is, okay, we've seen this rapid shift to digital. This has so many ripple effects what's permanent. So what are the big changes or trends that you think are going to be permanent or will dominate not just VMworld this year, but, but the themes for the coming years. >> Yeah. So what genies are out of the bottle, and I think a big one is just from an architectural perspective, this new to microservices. I mean, it just, it makes so much sense for so many reasons. You know, how often do we, any of us get a maintenance notification anymore from a consumer service that we got, we use, whether it's, you know, restaurant delivery, whether it's, you know, streaming, whether it's even, you know, you know, health, a health app that we're using, we don't, but that's very common in the enterprise that you would shut down. You know, the ERP system for, you know, three days, you know, every six months to do an update. So that stuff is going away. And the way in which we no longer have to issue those notifications is we have microservices that can be independently updated that can use kind of specialized tooling. That makes sense for the job. So I have an app that really needs the indexing capabilities of elastic search. Versus I have an app that needs the very quiet, fast data processing of the Santra. And so the development teams can be more independent for one another, have less dependencies develop applications faster and get those products to market faster. And I think the, the pandemic has demonstrated how, you know, I'll say Amazon wasn't successful because of the pandemic. And a lot of people say, oh, well, of course they sell online. So this pandemic was a boom for them. Well, they actually created architectures that were able to withstand the massive increase in demand that they got. Our customer Roblox is another example. If they did not have those, those same, those architectures that enable them to scale at those levels, then I, you know, Roblox wouldn't have been able to IPO because they would've just been a story about everybody wanted to play Roblox, the website crashed. End of story. So it's about building architectures that allow you to take advantage of this movement towards digital. And I don't think that's going away, but this is where the solutions like Tansu come in, you know, folks don't know how to do it. And they need platforms that make it easy. They need platforms that enable them to secure their data, to make it available, to protect it. And so, you know, combinations of like, Portworx and Tansu really solve some of the issues that come up in this, this shift to microservices. >> Michael, great stuff, really appreciate your perspectives. And thanks for coming back on theCUBE. >> Yeah, my pleasure anytime. And hopefully we'll be able to do it in person one of these days. >> I hope so. All right. Hey, thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante. You're watching the continuous coverage of theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2021. Keep it right there. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

value in jobs is probably the most rewarding >>things I've ever been involved >>in And I bring that energy to the queue because the cube is where all the ideas are and where the experts are, where the people are And I think what's most exciting about the cube is that we get to talk to people who are making things happen, entrepreneurs ceo of companies, venture capitalists, people who are really on a day in and day out basis, building great companies and the technology business is just not a lot of real time live tv coverage and and the cube is a non linear tv operation. We do everything that the T. V guys on cable don't do. We do longer interviews. We asked tougher questions. We >>ask sometimes some light questions. We talked about the person and what >>they feel about it's not prompted and scripted. It's a conversation authentic and for shows that have the cube coverage and makes the show buzz that creates excitement. More importantly, it creates great content, great digital assets that can be shared instantaneously to the world. Over 31 million people have viewed the cube and that is the result of great content, great conversations and I'm so proud to be part of a Q with great team. Hi, I'm john barrier, Thanks for watching the cube boy. >>Okay, welcome back everyone cube coverage of AWS amazon web services public sector summit in person here in Washington D. C. I'm john Kerry host of the cube with Sandy carter and Lynn martin Vm ware Vice president of government education and healthcare. Great to see you both cube alumni's although she's been on since 2014 your first time in 2018 18 2018. Great to see you. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having us. So VM ware and 80 of us have a huge partnership. We've covered that announcement when Andy and Pat nelson was the Ceo. Then a lots happened, a lot of growth. A lot of success. Congratulations. Thank you. What's the big news with AWS this year in >>public sector. So we just received our authorization to operate for Fed ramp high. Um and we actually have a lot of joint roadmap planning. You are kicking off our job today with the Department of Defense and I. L five for the defense customers is also in process. So um a lot of fruits of a long time of labor. So very excited, >>awesome. So explain what does the Fed ramp authority to operate mean? What is >>that all about? So I would say in a nutshell, it's really putting a commercial offering through the security protocols to support the federal government needs. Um and there's different layers of that depending on the end user customers. So Fed ramp i across this, across all the civilian and non classified workloads in the federal government. Um probably applicability for state, local government as well with the new state Gramp focus. Um Fed ramp. I will meet or exceed that. So it will be applicable across the other parts of the government as well and all operated, you know, in a controlled environment jointly. So you get the VM ware software stack on top of the platform from A W. S and all the services that is more VM >>ware, faster deployed usage, faster acceleration. >>Yeah, so I would say um today the government operates on VM ware across all of the government, state, local and federal, um some workloads are still on prem many and this will really accelerate that transformation journey to the cloud and be able to move workloads quicker onto the BMC on AWS platform without free architect in your >>application, without giving away any kind of VM World Secret because that's next week. What is the value proposition of VM ware cloud, on AWS? What is the, what is the, what is the main value proposition you guys see in the public >>sector? So I see three and then Sandy chime in their two, I would say, you know, the costs in general to operate In the Cloud vs on prem or significant savings, we've seen savings over 300% on some customers. Um the speed on the application movement I think is a >>huge >>unique benefit on BMC on AWS. So traditionally to move to native cloud, you have to really do a lot of application were to be able to move those workloads where on BMC on AWS to move them pretty fast. And it also leverages the investments that the government agencies have already made in their operational tools and things of that nature. So it's not like a full reinvestment for something new but really leveraging both the skill sets in the data center in the I. T. Shops and the tools and investments you've bought over the past. And then the third area I would say is really getting the agility and flexibility and speed of a cloud experience. >>What's your, what's your reaction to the partnership? >>You know, we were just talking uh in a survey to our customers and 67% of them said that the velocity of the migration really matters to them. And one of the things that we do really well together is migrate very quickly, so we have workloads that we've migrated that have taken you know weeks months uh as opposed to years as they go over, which is really powerful. And then also tomorrow VM ware is with us in a session on data led migration. We were talking about data earlier and VM ware cloud on Aws also helps to migrate over like sequel server, database oracle databases so that we can also leverage that data now on the cloud to make better decisions and >>real time decisions as >>well. It's been really interesting to watch the partnership and watching VM ware transform as well, not only the migrations are in play with the public sector, there's a lot of them, believe me, healthcare, you name every area. It's all, all those old systems are out there. You know, I'm talking about out there. But now with microservices and containers, you've got tansy and you got the whole cloud, native VM ware stack emerging that's going to allow customers to re factor This is a dynamic that is kind of under reported >>Migration is one thing. But I think, I think that the whole Tan Xue portfolio is one of the most interesting things going on in VM ware. And we also have some integration going on on D. M. C on AWS with tan to we don't have that pentagram. Yeah. For the government market, but it's on the road mapping plans and we have other customers And I would say, you know, some of my non federal government customers were able to move workloads in hours, not even days or weeks. There you go, literally back and forth. And very impressive on the BMC on AWS platform. So, um, as we expand things in with the Tan Xue platform is, you know, Sandy talked about this yesterday and our partners summit, Everyone's talking about containers and things like that. VM ware is doing a lot of investment around the cooper Netease plus the application migration work and things of that nature. >>I'd love to get you guys reaction to this comment because I've seen a lot of change. Obviously we're all seeing it. I've actually interviewed a bunch of aWS and VM ware customers and I would call um some of the categories skeptics the old school cloud holding the line. And then when the pandemic hit those skeptics flip over because they see the value. In fact I actually interviewed a skeptic who became an award winner who went on the record and said I love hey w I love the cloud. I was a skeptic because you saw the value the time to value. This is really a key dynamic. I know it's kind of thrown out a lot of digital transformation or I. T. Modernization but the agility and that kind of speed. It becomes the number one thing. What's your reaction to the skeptics converting? And then what happens >>next? Um So I think there's still a lot of folks in I. T. That our tree huggers or I call him several huggers uh um pick your term. And I think that um there is some concern about what their role will be. So I think one of the differences delivering cloud services to your internal constituents is really understand the business value of the applications and what that delivers from a mission perspective back to your client. And that's a shift for data center owners to really start thinking more from the customer mission perspective than or my servers running you know, do you have enough storage capacity blah blah blah. So I think that creates that skepticism and part of that's around what's my role going to be. So in the cloud transformation of a customer, there's all this old people part that becomes really the catalyst and I think the customers that have been very sad and really leverage that and then retool the business value back to the end users around the mission have done the best job. >>I mean we talk about this all the time, it's really hard to get the best debris partners together and then make it all work cloud, it becomes easier than doing it very bespoke or waterfall way >>Yeah, I have to say with the announcement yesterday, we're going to have a lot more partner with partners. So you and I have talked about this a few times where we bring partners together to work with each other. In fact, Lynn is going to go meet with one of those partners right after the interview um that want to really focus in on a couple of particular areas to really drive this and I think, you know, part of the, you know, as your re factoring or migrating VMro over the other big benefit is skills, people have really strong, these fear skills, the sand skills, >>operation >>operation tools Yeah. And so they want to preserve those, I think that's part of the beauty of doing VM ware cloud on Aws is you get to take those skills with you into the new world as well, >>you know, I was going to just ask the next question ai ops or day two operations, a big buzzword Yeah and that is essentially operation mindset, that devoPS DEVOps two is coming. Emily Freeman gave a keynote with our last event we had with with amazon public showcase revolution and devops devoPS 2.0 is coming which is now faster, security is built in the front end, so all these things are happening so now it's coming into the public sector with the GovCloud. So I have to ask you Lynn what are some of the big successes you've had with on the gulf cloudy, just Govcloud. >>So I would say we've had a lot of customers across the state local side especially um that weren't waiting for fed ramp and those customers were able to move like I mentioned this earlier and you guys just touched on it. So I think the benefit and the benefit, one of our best customers is Emmett Right? Absolutely mitt, God bless them. They've been on every cloud journey with VM ware since 2014 we moved in my three years now and talk about a skeptic. So although Mark is very revolutionary and tries new things, he was like oh who knows and literally when we moved those workloads it was minutes and the I. T shop day one there was no transformation work for them, it was literally using all the tools and things in that environment. So the progress of that and the growth of the applications that have been able to move their things. That took 2 to 3 years before we're all done within six months and really being able to expand those business values back out for the services that he delivers to the customers. So I think you'll see quite a bit across state, local federal government. You know, we have U. S. Marshals, thank them very much. They were our sponsor that we've been working with the last few years. We have a defense customer working with us around aisle five. >>Um you know, if we could also thank Coal Fire because Cold Fire is one of our joint partners talking about partner partners and they were played a critical role in helping BM We're cloud on AWS and get the fed ramp high certifications. >>They were R three p. O. We hired them for their exercise expertise with AWS as well as helping the BMR. >>Well the partnership with the war has been a really big success. Remember the naysayers when that was announced? Um it really has worked out well for you guys. Um I do want to ask you one more thing and we don't mind. Um One of the biggest challenges that you see the blockers or challenges from agencies moving to the cloud cover cloud because you know, people are always trying to get those blockers out of the way but it's an organizational culture is a process technology. What's your what's your take on that land. Um >>I think a lot does have to do with the people and the organizational history. I think somewhere you need a leader and a champion that really wants to change for good. I call Pat, used to call a tech for good. I love that. Right to really, you know, get things moving for the customers. I mean one of the things I'm most proud about supporting the government business in general though is really the focus on the mission is unparalleled, you know, in the sectors we support, you say, education or government or healthcare. Right? All three of those sectors, there's never any doubt on what that focuses. So I think the positives of it are like, how do you get into that change around that? And that could be systems, there's less what's VMC ON AWS as we mentioned, because the tools already in the environment so they know how to use it. But I do think there's a transformation on the data center teams and really becoming moving from technology to the business aspects a little bit more around the missions and things of that. >>What's interesting is that it's so, I mean, I actually love this environment even though it's kind of hard on everyone. Education and health care have been disrupted unprecedented ways and it's never gonna change back? Remember healthcare, hip data silos, silos, education don't spend on it. >>That education was the most remarkable part. Unbelievable. I started working in february before school started with one of the large cities everyone can guess and just the way they were able to pivot so fast was amazing and I don't think anybody, I think we did like five years of transformation in six months and it's never going to go back. >>I completely a great yes education. We just did a piece of work with CTS around the world and education is one of the most disrupted as you said health care and then the third one is government and all three of those are public sector. So the three most disruptive sectors or mission areas are in public sector which has created a lot of opportunity for us and our partnership to add value. I mean that's what we're all about right customer obsession working backwards from the customer and making sure that our partnership continues to add value to those customers >>while we love the tech action on the cube. Obviously we'd like to document and pontificate and talk about it. Digital revolution. Every application now is in play globally. Not just for I. T. But for society, public sector more than ever is the hottest area on the planet. >>Absolutely. And I would say that now our customers are looking at E. S. G. Environmental, they want to know what you're doing on sustainability. They want to know what you're doing for society. We just had a bid that came in and they wanted to understand our diversity plan and then open governance. They're looking for that openness. They're not just artificial intelligence but looking at explainable AI as well. So I think that we have a chance to impact environment societies and governance >>and you mentioned space earlier. Another way I talked with closure. I mean I'm an interview today too, but what's happening with space and what you can monitor disasters, understand how to deploy resources to areas that might have challenges, earthquakes or fires or other things. All new things are happening. >>Absolutely. And all that data people like to say, why are you spending money on space? There's so many problems here, but that data that comes from space is going to impact us here on earth. And so all the things that we're doing, all that data could be used with VM ware cloud on AWS as well. >>Well, you watch closely we got some space coverage coming. I got a big scoop. I'm gonna release soon about something behind the dark side of the moon on in terms of space sovereignty coming a lot of action, cybersecurity in space. That's really heavy right now. But >>aren't you glad that VMC cloud on AWS isn't hidden on the dark side of the moon. It's >>right on the congratulations. Thanks for coming on. You guys are doing great. Thanks for >>thanks for sharing. Congratulations. >>Okay, cube coverage here continues. AWS public sector summit in Washington D. C live for two days of coverage be right back. Thank you. Mhm. Mhm mm mm hmm.

>>Yes. >>Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm Lisa Martin, and I'm joined by two Cube alumni. Please welcome Tarazi, senior vice president and CEO, networking at Dell Technologies. Welcome back. And welcome to the Virtual >>Cube. Thank you. I'm excited about this. Thank you. >>We're gonna have a good conversation, because VJ Ramachandran is also here. VP of product management at VM Ware VJ Welcome back. >>Thank you, Lisa. And happy to be here again. >>So have a lot to unpack. We're on the cusp of the emerald 2021. You guys are making an announcement We want to talk about in the Emmy. Why? It's important will break down the announcement. Go ahead and start. Uh, we'll start with you. Envy me. Why is it important? What is it? All that good stuff? >>Yeah, this is excellent topic, and this is really an important component of infrastructure these days. Um, modern applications are changing how they consume infrastructure. That's because the workloads are evolving. Some of them are ai type machine learning workloads that need very high performance. There's also a continued to end by our customers to put work clothes in public cloud and on um and create a hybrid multi cloud model. Um, and also the new exciting stuff is all have to do with the edge applications and distributing applications everywhere with automation and connectivity to where they need to be operating with, you know, on premise. Uh, so long Storey short, These trends, these new applications, how the deployment models work is really diving the need for envy me becoming the key technology for getting your data and storage and with envy me of a fabric and connectivity is starting to become a very important topic. >>How do you have those discussions with customers in terms of their next steps, especially in the last year and a half will stay with you that we've seen such acceleration of digital transformation. What have those customer conversations? How have they changed? >>Uh, they the conversations have changed in two big ways. One, they really want to discuss outcomes. They know that we can bring, you know, industry leading infrastructure and tools and automation and software. But they really want to discuss outcomes, you know? How do you How do I automate my you know, operations? How do I get to unpack the value of my data? no matter what the data is eyes and where it's coming. So so that's the first big changes. People have shifted completely to outcomes. And the second change is that now there is a really good discussion about performance and sustainability. How do I make sure that I'm meeting my sustainability goals? I'm meeting my performance goals instead of just discussing one piece of the solution. >>Got a BJ wanna bring you into the conversation? Now talk to me about BME Front and its evolution from VM Ware's perspective and some of the changes that you've seen in the last dynamic 18 months in the market. >>Yeah, thanks. Thanks for being, You know, I think that we are living in interesting times now. What we're seeing from the standpoint is that applications are evolving rapidly, demanding more performance, local agencies, higher throughput. And these are modern applications and NBA me. What we're seeing is that NBN me as a protocol is becoming the de facto sort of connected with protocol police applications at the same time. What we're also seeing is that the infrastructure team at scale and then deploy these applications at scale They are moving towards a disaggregated architecture in the data centre, and all the employees are going towards this because they want to emulate, you know, the public club. And so you know what's exciting about this announcement and sort of the, you know, the you know, what we are delivering together the bell is that the combination of Indian P plus T c p I P provides in sort of brings both these worlds together. It provides performance and legacies that these new applications these these new modern applications need at the same time provides a way that is disaggregated. And so the combination of these two is You know, it's, uh, industries changing, in my opinion, and and we'll see that this will become sort of the the fact that we can deploy infrastructure in our data centres. And that's what we're seeing in December. >>Got it? Thank you. Let's go ahead and unpack that announcement. That VJ alluded to telling them or have announced an end to end envy. Any TCP ecosystem solution back over to you. You have talked to me about this. What is it? What are some of the core components and we'll get into >>benefits. Perfect. So So we both see envy any of D c P I p as this new future storage connectivity. And it is a pivotal moment for the industry. There's always been debate about what protocols you use for connecting storage for performance speed. But the time has come for envy any of the TCP IP to become the defect of future protocol. Uh, what we're announcing is, first of all, we're announcing a new, uh, software product called S S s from Dell. And that software product will automate the discovery provisioning and automate the setup of all the storage networking How you connect all the hosts to the storage targets in a fully automated way. This is something that has been very complex, very hard to do manually in a one by one. So that's a whole new software product. Number two announcing the availability of envy me over TCP I pee on our key Dell products, which is power store power edge, which is our server product, and also power switch, which is our networking product. So the combination of the new software tool S. S s and all the availability of envy. Emile, that TCP ip on our compute storage and networking that gives customers the ecosystem to be able to use it along with the capabilities that are essential for it. >>Yeah, And DJ head was going to add to what you have just said. You know, of course, being there is fully committed to bringing this, uh, option of NBA me, You know, along with the partnership, Del, um you know, to the market and has been our partnership has been instrumental in bringing this to the market. Now, you know, the cool thing about this particular announcement and, you know, and what to bring to the market is that the smart fabric, uh, services manager is actually built into the centre. So, you know, from the understand point of this fear administrator being the administrator can so stay with them. They're the centre, um, you know, console and be able to manage provision, manage and monitor, Um, you know, in the in your fabric, uh, me or the PCP, uh, connexions. And so it's sort of bridges the gap between storage and, uh, world with you will >>and also the V sphere. The launch of, uh, envy any of the TCP I p and V. Sphere seven you see is the last component of this announcement between putting S S s inside the Centre V sphere enhancements and the Dell products. The end result is the customers get this bump and new capability. However, they can continue to use all the management tools that they have today. So this is an easy automated lift and they get this new capability >>an easy automated lift. Though that sounds like magic to I'm sure a lot of folks ears sticking with you talk to me about this is a new direction for Dell and talk to me a little bit about that and the impact. >>I think the new direction is that we have supported multiple protocols for connectivity fibre channel R d m A. But I think now, as we go to this next evolution and the fact that the world is going to multi cloud and edge and distribution, the new direction here is we're putting a lot of investment and energy, both of us into making envy me over TCP IP automated and high performance. As VJ said, we've been collaborating for over two years on this project jointly that included new standards, new innovation, new software capabilities, new divers on all our products. So although we make it sounds simple. This is a company wide on both sides. Innovation effort to make this possible. >>Absolutely a big innovation effort. DJ, Go >>ahead. And I was gonna say, you know, just to second what we have said, we work as one team you know, begin to companies. But we work as one team and really brought some innovative features and functionality out of the market and, you know, too excited to see this come to fruition. We're working on it for two years now. >>So two years before the pandemic started, I'm curious to get both of your perspectives on how the tunnels of the economy and the market of the last 18 months have influenced. We've seen so much acceleration in digital. How has this interesting time affected or accelerated what you're announcing? Or has it? >>I will start on V say, you know, whatever you'd like to add is that I think what we have seen during the pandemic is acceleration of adopting of a cloud operating model by using more of public cloud but also using automation that we have built into our products, both vm ware and L. And so this kind of automated type software tools falls completely in line with that. You know, customers more and more want the infrastructure automated and they wanted cloud light with as a service, usage based type models. And we're both invested into that area. >>Yeah, And you know, Lisa, if anything at all in the last, uh, two years since the Pandemic, what we're what we're refining is that it's no longer a decision between on Prem or Public Club, But it's actually and and decision, you know, it's on from and public clothes is truly becoming a multicultural world. And so to make this multi cloud, and then customers deploy the right applications and write workload in the right place, depending on the needs. And so, in this multiple world, having this automation and having a consistent way too, uh, to manage infrastructure, uh, in an automated fashion across these multi coloured deployments is becoming key. And so this is a key component of that. What we did, what pronouncing is a key component of that kind of a model, that customers are moving to >>it. Let's talk about the customer benefits you both mentioned performance sustainability, low latency, high throughput. Give me examples of each of those of how this technology will deliver that for customers across industries. >>This is where we've really enjoyed working together and with VJ and his team did fantastic work to test the value of having this partnership is the end to end. Customer sees the performance and benefit from the eyes of using both the software stack from Dell and VM Ware as well as the infrastructure below it. And we've been able to jointly test what the customer will see and what we have seen, which I have to say was a surprise to us. We expected benefits, but even it was one of those Aha moment. Oh my God, this is We thought it was good, but it turned out to be even better. So on the performance side, it's about 2.5 to 3 times the performance of ice crazy, which is the other technology we would compare this to on the Latin Seaside is 70% less latency and uses even less capacity in terms of CPU. We have not seen that kind of performance improvement from a protocol for a very long time. Changing networking protocols usually gives you some little benefit, but not this kind of a step functional performance. So I think the customers will be very excited about this. >>These are some numbers, PJ go ahead and extend onto that. >>No, I You know, I have nothing more to add because, you know, we having extremely encouraged by the performance numbers that you know, that we saw and, you know, and and and here, this red we actually exceeded expected our expectations, right? And if you, the enemy, was the was the right way to sort of, you know, delivered performance. But, uh, you know, to see this kind of results in real world as, uh is very encouraging. >>You guys said there are several sessions at BM world that are covering this topic. I'd like to get both of your perspectives on some of the sessions that you're presenting in and some of the key takeaways that the audience can learn. I have. We'll start with you. >>Yeah. I mean, we're starting with a session to explain the overall strategy, and we're gonna show demos. Exactly how would you use VM Ware software and L s F s s to configure Implement. How does that compare to the customer experience today? That's going to be an exciting session between myself and Paul Turner, who is the VP of product. Also at the end, where I think that that kind of with these visual demos, people will see how fast automated that is, which is really the message here. Then we have multiple sessions from our key technical experts. We're gonna go through a deep technology review of the stack and how to do it. And the functionality. >>Yeah, and Lisa on on the other side of obviously you have a number of sessions on various topics. Uh, on storage. The one that I want to call out is there's a session that I'm doing with Mark flashing who's a city or for storage and for club platform. Really. And we are discussing VMS vision and strategy for storage and availability, and NBA me is certainly a key part of that. But as we just talked earlier, the whole automation and the multiplayer aspect of, uh of the parameters it's critical. So you know. So we're sharing what? How we are approaching this whole multiple world. Um, in this, you know, with storeys and availability innovation. So I'm really excited about that. >>So a lot of news coming out on the nbn me over TCP ip front talked about the collaboration acceleration of that, the directional shift in terms of go to market and availability. When where can existing customers go to learn more information? What's the joint gtm that Del. And then we have, >>uh I think you wanna start on V sphere and I'll add or >>Okay, >>so all the products we talked about today from V sphere seven dot you the power store power edge All of them will be available starting immediately after VM World And between October and November, everything we talked about will be available And during the, um, world, we will announce how customers can use it downloaded by it. As we said before, because they are a s s s is implemented into the centre. This will be a familiar way for customers to use it downloaded and implemented, and a new lease of these fears something customers are used to. We have many customers on power store, so they will be getting a new software at least an update with the new functionality. We we do plan to care developer experience, modules, sandboxes for people to play with will make more announcements on that in the future. >>Yeah, And this, You know, as you have said, this functionality is built into, you know, the spear and recenter as well. And so the next really next release of the sphere will have this functionality. And you'll see a lot of noise about this at the world. That sort of our coming out party. Mm. >>Excellent. Well, it sounds like it's going to be a good coming out party with a lot of information to come around. The emerald timeframe, some great education and deep technical dive is that you guys and your teams will be providing to customers in all industries, which I'm sure they will be very much appreciative of. I appreciate both of you coming on sharing with me the news. What's exciting about this? The impact that's going to make and we look forward to hearing some of the news as it gets rolled out. >>Thank you. >>Thank you so much. >>Lisa. Thank >>you. Great to have you guys for Ihab Tarazi and VJ Ramachandran. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching a cube >>conversation? Mm.

>>Welcome to the cubes coverage of VMworld 2021. I'm Lisa Martin, two guests joining me next. Matt Morgan is here. Vice-president cloud infrastructure business group at VMware and Steven Jones joins us as well. Director of services at AWS gentlemen. That's great to have you on the program. >>Thank you, Lisa. >>Glad to see everyone's doing well. Here we are virtual. So we are just around the four year anniversary of VMware cloud on AWS. Can't believe it's been 20 17, 4 years. Matt talked to us about VMware AWS partnership and how it's progressed over that time. >>The partnership has been fantastic and it's evolved. We announced VM-ware cloud on AWS general availability all the way back at VMworld, 2017, we've been releasing new features and capabilities every other week with 16 major platform releases and 300 features as customers have requested. So it's been an incredible co-engineering relationship with AWS. We've also expanded our go to market by announcing a resale program in which AWS can resell VMware cloud on AWS. We did that back in 2019 and in 2020, we've announced that AWS is VMware's preferred public cloud partner for vSphere based workloads. And VMware is AWS's preferred service for vSphere based workloads. >>So as you said, Matt, a tremendous amount of evolution and just a short four year timeframe. Stephen talked to me about the partnership through AWS, this lens. >>Yeah. You bet. Look, I agree with Matt that the partnership has been fantastic and it's just amazing to see how fast four years has gone. I really think that AWS and VMware really are a really good example of how two technology companies can work together for them. The benefit of our mutual customers, um, as Matt indicated, VM-ware is our preferred service for vSphere based workloads. And we're broadly working together as a single team across both engineering and go-to-market functions to help customers drive business value from the, the, the investments they made over the years. And then also as they work to transform their businesses into the future with cloud technology, >>Let's talk about digital transformation. That is a term we've been, we've been talking about that for many years on this program. And at every event we've all been at, right. What we've seen in the last year and a half is a massive acceleration. Now talk to me about how VMware and AWS are helping customers facilitate that digital transformation. >>So our customers see modern it infrastructure as the core pillar of a digital transformation strategy and public cloud has been a digital transformation enabler for organizations. And that's because they have so many benefits when they embraced the public cloud, including the ability to elastically consume infrastructure. That's required the ability to employ a pay as you go financial model and the ability to reduce operational overhead, which helps save both monetary costs, but also provides more flexibility. But the big driver now is the ability to embrace innovative cloud services and those services help accelerate application development, deployment and management VMware cloud on AWS is a prime example of such an offering, which not only provides these benefits, but enhances them with operational consistency working the same way their it architecture works today, giving them familiarity and enterprise robustness that VMware technologies are known for, but being able to maximize the power of the global AWS cloud >>And every year from a customer adoption perspective, that's doubling Steven walked through a couple of customer examples that really highlight the value of VMC on AWS. >>Yeah, I've got a couple here. I think, uh, Kiko Milano is a good one. There a then our Italian company, they sell cosmetics and beauty products through about 900 retail stores in 27 different markets. So quite large, but they found that their on premises data center and outsourcing partner was just too inflexible for the changing needs of their company. And within four months, uh, Kiko actually migrated all of their core workloads to Amazon. Is he too, and particularly surprised how easy it was to migrate over 300 servers to the VMware cloud on AWS offering. And this is, this is key because the actually leveraging the same platform that they were used to, which was BMR. Uh, the Kiko team actually didn't have to perform any testing or modify any other existing applications. They also, they didn't have to actually train their teams again, because again, they were already up-skilled with being able to leverage the BMR technology. >>So again, we think it's the best of both worlds customers like Kiko can come and use VMware cloud on AWS, consolidate their server footprint and also take advantage of, of a hyperscale platform. That's pretty cool. Another customer, uh, SAP global ratings that our company provides a high quality market intelligence in the form of credit ratings, research, and thought leadership to help educate market participants to make better financial decisions who doesn't want to make a better financial decision. Right? So in order to accelerate their business growth and globalization really meet new business capabilities, they knew they needed to move a hundred percent to the cloud and wanted to know how they're actually going to do that. Now they also have an aging data center system outages, which are becoming more frequent, which to them actually concerned that they actually might, um, uh, face in the future, some penalties from the sec. >>So they didn't want to do that. So over the period of about eight months, think about this eight months, they moved to 150 financial apps to AWS leveraging VMware on AWS. Uh, pretty impressive. They reduce technical debt, uh, from legacy systems that were hosted on sun Solaris, Oracle excavator, and a X. And then now actually able to meet the goal demands of their business. The fun part here is they're actually meeting their uptime, uh, needs a hundred percent of the time since it actually moves these workloads to the VMware cloud on AWS. So pretty exciting. See customers link this kind of journey, >>Absolutely impressive journeys. Also short time periods to do a massive change there. It sounds like the familiarity with VMware in the console is a huge facilitator of the speed of migration and folks being able to get up and running. Stephen talked to me about some of the trends that you were seeing in organizations like the customers that you just mentioned. >>Yeah. So there are some emergency transfer store and a lot of customers want to leverage the same cloud operating models, but also in their own data centers. So they can take advantage of agility and innovation of cloud will also meeting requirements that they sometimes have that keep them from adopting cloud. Uh, you can think of workloads that sometimes have low latency requirements, right? Or they need to process large volumes of data locally. Uh, other times customers tell us they really need the flexibility to run data workloads, um, in a particular area that has data sovereignty or residency requirements. So when, as we talk about customers, um, they tell us that not only do they want to minimize their, their need to actually manage and operate infrastructure, um, and focus on business innovation is sometimes need to do this, um, in a, in a data center this close to them, if that makes sense. So they're looking for the best again of both worlds. >>Got it. The best of both worlds and Matt, you have some breaking news to share. What is it? >>So today we're announcing the general availability of VMware cloud on AWS outposts. >>Awesome. Congratulations. Tell me about that. Let's dig into it. >>So for customers looking to extend their AWS centric model to an on-premise location, that data center edge location via more cloud on AWS, outposts delivers the agility and innovation of AWS cloud, but on premises and VMware cloud on AWS outpost is based on VMware cloud, a jointly engineered service. So together we're delivering this service on premises as a service. This gives us the capability to integrate VMware's enterprise class architecture and platform with next generation dedicated Amazon nitro based ECE to bare metal instances. It provides a deeply integrated hybrid cloud operating environment that extends from a customer's data center to these particular services running on premises in the data center, the edge, or to the public cloud and having a unified control plane between all of it. >>A unified control plan is absolutely critical. Uh, Stephen eight, >>We have a detailed plan to offer integrated AWS services, and that capability really enhances the innovation angle for customers as they embraced the modernization of their applications. >>Another great example of how deep the partnership is Steven AWS outpost was announced at reinvent, I think 2019, which was the last time I was at an event in person. So coming up on a couple of years here, when GA talked to me about some of the key use cases that you're seeing, where it really excels. >>Yeah. So Matt, Matt highlighted a number of these, right. And you're right. It was 2019. Uh, we were all together back then and hopefully we can do that, uh, very soon here, um, quickly on apple. So overall, since, since we're talking about outposts, uh, VMware cloud on a post as well. So the thing here and Matt highlighted this is that without posts, we actually live we've leveraged, leveraged literally the same hardware and control plane technology that we leverage in our own data centers so that the customers will come to know and love and expect about the AWS platform and VMC on AWS, uh, uh, is, is, is the exact same thing that we'll be able to get with the Apple's technology. I'll give you a couple of customer examples. I think that that actually speaks to the use cases best. So, um, you remember, I talked a little bit about data locality and residency requirements. >>So first ABI Dhabi bank, uh, is the largest bank in the United Arab Emirates, right? And they were offering corporate investment and personal banking service, and they wanted to deliver a digital banking service, including email and mobile payments, but they had to follow a specific residency and data retention requirements and they had to do it in the UAE. And so what they've done is they've actually leveraged multiple AWS outposts in the UAE to allow them to provide business continuity while also leveraging the same API APIs that they had to come to know about, uh, and love about the AWS services in region, right? Phillips healthcare is another really good example. Um, you can imagine that, uh, what they do every day is, is, uh, very important things like predictive analytics for preventative treatments. And so outposts Phillips has actually taken those and that developed cloud applications, again, deployed on the same infrastructure they were used to within region. Now they can actually do this in clinics at hospitals, and they're in managing that the same tools providing, uh, same end-to-end, um, view and to their own providers, 19 administrators. And so they actually estimate they have over 70,000 servers now distributed across 12,000 locations or 1200 locations. Excuse me. So that's an example of, again, just two use cases that really broadened the reach and the flexibility of customers to run workloads in the cloud, but in a on-premise fashion. Does that make sense? >>Yes, it does. And you mentioned two great stories there. One in financial services, the other one healthcare, two industries that have had to massively pivot in the last 18 months amongst many others, but let's talk a little bit more Steven, about some of the things that you're hearing from some of the early customers of BMC on outpost. What are some of the near term opportunities that you're uncovering? >>Yeah, I've got to say here too, that, uh, customers are VMware customers have been asking us for this for quite some time. I'm sure Matt would agree. Um, so look from, uh, go back to some of the use cases we've discussed low latency compute requirements. So one of our higher education customers today who has migrated workloads to be more cloud on AWS, um, is looking at, uh, extending the same capability to an on-premise experience specifically for, um, uh, school applications that require a low latency, um, uh, integration, um, from a local data processing perspective. Again, one of our VMware on AWS top biopharmaceutical companies, uh, here again in the U S um, is planning to use VMware cloud on AWS outposts for health management applications with patient records that need to be retained locally at the hospital hospital sites. And then finally you can kind of going back to the story around data residency. We have a large telco provider in Europe that is planning to use this particular offering for their applications that need to remain on premises to meet regulatory requirements. So again, you know, we're just super pleased with the amount of interest, not only in VMware cloud on AWS, but also in this new run that we're announcing today. And we're really excited to be able to support the VMware cloud experience really on the AWS Apple's platform for a of these use cases. >>One of the things we've talked about for many years with both VMware and AWS is the dedication to listening to the voice of the customer. Not obviously this is a great example, Steven, as you said, VMware customers have been asking for this for awhile. So while customers have a ton of choice, I want you guys to unpack what the differentiators are of this service. And Matt, if we can start with you to bring you back into the conversation, we'd love to get your, your input on those differentiators. >>Yeah, absolutely. So people have to look at this for the service that's delivered and on the VMware side of the equation, we're delivering the full VMware cloud infrastructure capability. This is delivered as a service as a cloud service on premises. So why is this valuable? Well, it relieves the it burden of infrastructure management and fully maximizes the value of a fully managed cloud service, giving an organization, the capability to unlock the renovation, budgets, and start to invest truly an innovation. This is all about continuous life cycle management, ongoing service monitoring, automated processes to ensure the health and security the infrastructure. And of course, this is backed by expert VMware site recovery and reliability engineers, to ensure that everything works perfectly. We also enable organizations to leverage best in class enterprise grade capabilities that we've talked about in our compute storage and networking for best-in-class resiliency auto-scaling and intrinsic availability. >>So there's no long procurement cycles to set up these environments. And that means it's developer ready right out of the box. We're also deeply integrated with what customers do today. So end to end hybrid cloud usually requires end-to-end hybrid processes. And with this integration into those processes is instant, no reconfiguration, no conversion, no refactoring, no rearchitecture of existing applications using VMware HDX or B motion organizations can move applications to leverage this cloud service instantly. It allows you to use established on premises governance, security, and operational policies, and ensures that that workload portability I mentioned goes both ways. It's bi-directional as customers need to have portability to meet their business requirements. As we mentioned earlier, there's a unified hybrid control plane with a single pane of glass to manage resources across the end-to-end hybrid cloud environment. And we're giving direct access to 200 plus native AWS services. And that enables an organization to truly modernize their applications, starting where they are today. And so that gives you the real capability to deliver a unique service. One that gives you an organization, the ability to migrate without any downtime have fast, fast cost effective capabilities and a low risk to their hybrid cloud strategy. >>Excellent. That's a pretty jam packed list of differentiators there, but one of the things that it really sounds like not from what you said is how much work has gone on to make the transition smooth for customers, give them that flexibility and that portability that they need. Those are marketing terms you and I know are used very frequently, but it really seems like the work that you've done here will be done straight to that. I want to ask you Stephen, that same question from AWS's perspective, what really differentiates the solution. >>It is a good question. I'll just, uh, I'll agree that there has been a ton of work first that is, has gone, gone into actually making this happen. Right. Um, and to, to all the points that Matt made. And I would just add that again. 80 was outpost is built on the same AWS nitro system and infrastructure. The customers have already come to love in the cloud. And so gone really are the days where customers have to worry about procuring and racking and stacking their own gear layer on all the benefits, the map outline from a VMware perspective. And again, we, we really believe the customers are getting the best of both worlds here. Um, with, with specifically with the compute that comes in the outpost rack, um, customers actually get getting kind of built in redundancy and resiliency, hard security, all those things that customers don't know, they need certain things. >>The customers know they need to pay attention to, but also want some help with. And so we've, we, we put a lot of thought and effort into this. Um, but could I just, uh, explain a little bit about the customer experience, um, when a customer orders and AWS outposts rack, right? AWS actually signs up, uh, to do a fully managed experience here. Like we'll bring people in to actually do site assessments. Um, we'll manage the hardware, setup, the installation and the maintenance of that gear over time. Well, VM-ware also manages the, the software defined data center construct as well as, um, the, the single point for, uh, for support questions. And so together, we really thought through how customers is met, but it get an end to end experience from hardware all the way up through application modernization. It's pretty exciting, >>Very deep partnership there. And we're out of time, but I do want to ask you guys, where can customers go, who are interested in learning more about this new service? >>So at VM world, there are a collection of DMR cloud, AWS sessions, including sessions, dedicated to VMware cloud on AWS outpost. We encourage everyone who's attending VMworld to look up those sessions and you'll learn all about the hardware, the service, the capabilities, the procurement, and how to get started. In addition, on vmware.com, we have a web portal for you to gain additional knowledge through a digital consumption. That's vmware.com/vmc-outposts. >>Awesome. Matt, thank you. I'm sure folks will be just drinking up all of this information at the sessions at VMworld 2021. And I hope to see you in person at next year's VM. I'm crossing my fingers. Great to see you guys Format Morgan and Steve Jones. I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching the cubes coverage of the em world to 2021.

>>the idea of cloud is changing from a set of remote services somewhere out there in the cloud to an operating model that supports workloads on prem across clouds and increasingly at the near and far edge moreover, workloads are evolving from a predominance of general purpose systems to increasingly data intensive applications, developers are a new breed of innovators and kubernetes is a linchpin of creating new cloud native workloads that are in the cloud but also modernizing existing application portfolios to connect them to cloud native apps. Hello, we want to welcome back to HPD discovered 2021 the cubes ongoing coverage. This is Dave Volonte and with me are scott. Buchanan is the vice president of marketing at VM ware and Toby Weiss, who is the vice president of global hybrid cloud practice at HP gents. Welcome to the Q. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Day agreed to be here. >>Okay, thanks for having >>us. So you heard my little narrative upfront. Um and so let's get into it. I want to start with with some of the key trends that you guys see in the marketplace and maybe scott you could kick us off from VM ware's perspective. What are you seeing that's really driving? Uh I. T. Today. >>Well, Dave you started with a conversation around cloud, right, and you can't really have a conversation around cloud without also talking about applications. And so much of the interaction that we're having with customers these days is about how we bring apps and clouds together and modernize across those two dimensions at the same time. And that's a pretty complex discussion to have and it's a complex journey to navigate. And so we're here to talk to customers and to work with h Pe to help our customers across those two dimensions. >>Great, so Toby I mean, it's always been about applications, as scott said, but but the application, the nature of applications is changing how we develop applications. The mentioned it sort of data intensive applications were injecting ai into virtually everything the apps, the process, the the people even um uh from a from the perspective of really a company that supports applications with infrastructure, what are you seeing in the marketplace? What can you add to that discussion? >>Yes. Great point. Dave you know, with the scent with applications becoming more central, think about what that means uh and has been for developer communities and developers becoming uh more important customers for I. T. Uh We have to make it easier for these developers uh to speed their innovations to market. Right? The business demands newer and faster capabilities of these applications. So our job in the infrastructure and was called the platform layer is to help we need to build these kinds of platforms that allow developers to innovate more quickly. >>So we talked earlier about sort of modernizing apps. I mean, it seems to me that the starting point there is you want to containerized and obviously kubernetes is the, is the key there, But so okay, so if that's the starting point, where is the journey, what does that look like? Maybe scott you could chime in there >>Sure. A couple of quick thoughts there, Dave and Toby to build on first is if you look at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, Landscape today, what you can do at landscape dot c n c f dot io Holy Smokes, is that a jungle? So a lot of organizations need a guide through that CN cf landscape, they need a partner that they can trust to show them the way through that landscape. And then secondly, there needs to be ways to make these technologies easier to adopt and to use in practice, kubernetes being the ultimate example of that. And so we've been hard at work to try and make it easy and natural to make kubernetes part of one's existing infrastructure, so that building with and working with containers can be done on the same platform that you're using for virtual machines. >>So let's talk a little bit about cloud. Um and how you guys are thinking about cloud, remember told me that Back in VM World 2010, it was the very first vm world for the Cube. All we talked about was a cloud, but it was a private cloud, was really what we were talking about, which at the time largely met the virtualized data center. Um it was kind of before the software defined data center and today we're still talking about cloud, but it's it's hybrid cloud. It's kind of the narrative that I set up front data center. It's become for the most part software to find. And so how do you see this changing the I. T. Operating model? >>I think it's a great question. And look today you will see us talk a lot about this notion of cloud everywhere. So less differentiation about private and public and more about the experience of cloud. Right. Public. Cloud brought great innovations and what better than to bring those innovations to on premise workloads that we have chosen to operate and work there. So as we think about cloud more as an experience we want for our developers and our end users and our I. T. Organizations. We begin to think about how can we replicate that experience in an on premise environment. And so part of that is having the technologies that enable you to do that. The other part is um we most of us have evolved right the organization operating models to operate our cloud infrastructures off premises. Well now expanding that more holistically across our organization so we don't have to operating models but a single operating model that bridges both and and brings the ability of both of those together to get the most benefit as we really become to integrate and become truly hybrid in our organization. So I think the operating model is critical and the kinds of experiences we deliver to the users of that I. T. Uh infrastructure and operating model is critical as well. >>Are you guys are both basically in the infrastructure business but scott maybe we can start with you. There's a lot of changes that we're talking about in it. Generally the data center specifically especially big changes in workloads, with a lot more data intensive apps ai being injected into everything kubernetes, making things more fassel. And in many ways it simplifies things, but it also puts stress on the system because you've got to protect this. They they're no longer stateless apps right there, state full and you gotta protect them and and so they've got to be compliant. Um now you've got the edge coming in. Uh So my question is, what does infrastructure have to do to keep pace with all this application innovation? >>Uh one of the conversations that we are having increasingly with our customers is how can they embrace a dev sec ops mindset in their organization and adopt some of these more modern patterns and practices and make sure that security is embedded in the life cycle of the container. And and so I think that this is part of, the answer is equipping the operator through infrastructure to set guard rails in place so that the development organization can work with freedom inside of those guard rails. They can draw on a catalogs of curated container. Images, catalogs of apps start from templates. Those are the building blocks that allow developers to work faster and that allow an operator to ensure the integrity and compliance of the containers and the applications of the organizations building. >>Yeah, So, so that's kind of uh when I hear scott talked about that Toby I think infrastructure as code designing security and governance in right? We always we always said I was an afterthought. We kind of bolted it on second. The security team had to take care of that. This is always the same thing with backup. Right? So we got an app. It's all ready to go. How do we back it up? And so that's changing that whole notion of, of infrastructure as code. Um, I want to talk about Green lake in a minute, but, but before we get there, I wonder if you could talk about how HP E thinks about VM ware and how you guys are partnering. I'm specifically interested and where each of you sees the value that you bring to the table for your joint customers. >>Yeah, great question. You know, and, and starting to think about history like you did 2010 being the start of a cube journey. I, I remember in 2003 when we first partnered with VM ware in the very first data center consolidations and we built practices around this has been quite a long partnership with VM ware and I'm excited to see this. This partnership evolved today, especially into this cloud native space and direction. Uh It's critical we need you know uh you know customers have choices and we need great partners like VM ware uh to help satisfy the many different use cases and choices that our customers have. So while we bring you know good depth when it comes to building these infrastructures that become highly automated uh managed in some cases and consumable like on a consumption basis and automated like we help clients automate their ci Cd pipeline. We depend on technologies and partners like them where to make these outcomes real for our customers. >>Yeah I think there's a way to connect a couple of the points that we've been talking about today. Got some data from a state of kubernetes study that we just ran And this is 350. IT. decision makers who said uh that they're running kubernetes on premise, 55% of respondents are running kubernetes on premise today. And so Vm ware and HP gets worked together to bring kubernetes to those enterprises, 96% of them said that they're having a challenge selecting the right kubernetes distribution, 60 of them in that C. N. C. F. Landscape and the # one criteria that they're going to use to choose the right distribution uh set them on a path forward is that it's easy to deploy and to operate and to maintain in production. And so I think that this is where VM ware and HP get to come together to help try and keep things as simple as possible for customers as they navigate. A fairly complex world. >>That's interesting scott. So who are those um those on prem users of containers and kubernetes? Is it the is it the head of you know the the application team and an insurance company whose kind of maintaining the claims about? Is it is a guy's building new cloud native apps to help companies get digital first. Who are those, What's the persona look like >>in our conversations? You know, this is the infrastructure and operations team seen that there's energy around kubernetes and maybe there's some use in test and development and parts of the organization. And by centralizing over ownership of that kubernetes footprint, they can ensure that it's compliant if policy is set properly to your point earlier that it's meets the security standards for the organization. And so it's increasingly that SRE or site reliability engineer or platform operator who's taking ownership of that kubernetes footprint for the organization to ensure that consistency of management and experience for the development teams across the larger organs. Toby, is that what you're seeing? >>2? We see uh we see quite a few we engage with quite a few developer teams in business leads that have ambitions to speed their application development processes And uh you know, they want help and often, as I stated, the intro, they might be coming off of a much older deployment uh maybe from 2015 where there there were an early adopter of a container platform methodology and wanting to get to some newer platform or they they may be in charge of getting a mobile banking application and its features to market much more quickly. So and often when we get a quote maybe from a client and might come from, you know, the VP of a business unit. But often as we engage, it's, you know, the developers are pretty much our customers and their developer leaders and teams, >>so you're running into container technical debt. Already you're seeing that out there. It sounds like your legacy >>container. It takes some expertise to, to come off those older. You know, the first instance creations of these container platforms were pretty much open source and yeah, you want to bring it to something that's more modern and has the kinds of features, enterprise grade features you might need. >>So is it not so problematic for for customers? Because as I said before, a lot of those apps were sort of disposable and stateless and, and, and now they're saying, hey, we can actually use kubernetes to build, you know, mission critical apps. And so there, that's when they sort of decide to pivot to a new modern platform or is there a more complex migration involved? What are you seeing? >>Okay, I'll give my hot, take your Toby and then uh, ask you for yours. But I guess, uh, I feel like the conversations that I'm involved in with customers is, you know, always begins with their broader application portfolio. These enterprises have hundreds thousands of applications and job one is to figure out how to categorize them into those which need to be re hosted or platform or re factored or reimagined entirely. And so they're looking for help figuring out how to categorize those applications and ultimately how to attack each category of application. Some should be re platforms on environments that make best use of kubernetes, some need to be re factored, some need to be reimagined. And so they are again looking for that expert guide to show them the way >>right. And when we engage in those early discussions, we call it right Mix advisory. Um, you know, you're trying to take a full, a broad scope as you said, scott down to a few and uh you know determine kind of the first movers if you will also you know clients will engage you know for very specific applications that are or suite of applications. Again like mobile applications for banking. I think you're a good example because you know they have an ambition. I mean the leader of that kind of application may very well think that is the mission critical application for the company, right? But of course finance, they have a different point of view. So you know that that application to them is the center of their business getting you know, their customer access to the core banking features that they have and you know they want to zero in on the kind of ecosystem it takes in in the speed at which they can push new features through. So we see both as well um you know the broader scope application, weaning down to the few discovery application, uh and then of course a very focused effort to help a particular business unit speed development on their mobile app, for example, >>it's interesting scott you were talking about sort of, the conversation starts with the application portfolio and there have been there have been these sort of milestones around, you know, major application portfolio, I'll call him rationalizations, I mean there's always an ongoing, but y two K was one of those, this is sort of the big move to SAS was another one, obviously cloud and it feels like kubernetes, I mean it's like the cloud to Dato coming on. Prem is another one of those opportunities to rationalize applications. We all know the stats right, we always see 85% of the spend is to keep the lights on and the other the only small portion of innovation and you know, there's always a promise we can change that. It reminds me of the heavy year, I would go to the boston marathon, it was this guy would run and he had a hat on with the extension and it was a can of Budweiser way out there and he couldn't reach it and so he would run. It was almost the same thing here is they never get there because they have so many projects coming online and the project portfolio and and then and then the C I O has got to maintain those in the application heads and so it's this this ongoing thing. But you do see spikes in rationalization initiatives and it feels like with this push to modernization and digitization maybe the pandemic accelerated that too. Is that a reasonable premise? You're seeing sort of a milestone or a marker in terms of increased effort around rationalization and modernization today because of kubernetes? >>Yeah, I definitely think that there are a couple of kubernetes is a catalyzing technology and the challenges of the pandemic or a catalyzing moment. Right. And I feel like uh Organisations have seen over the past 18 months now that those enterprises that have a way to get innovation to market to customers faster, not once a quarter, but many times a day, are the ones that are separating themselves in competitive marketplaces and ultimately delivering superior customer experiences. So it comes back to some of the ideas full circle that Toby started with around delivering a superior developer experience so that those developers can get code to production and into the hands of customers on a much more rapid basis. Like that's the outcome that enterprises really care about at the end of the day. And kubernetes is part of the way to get there, but it's the outcome that's key. Great thank >>you. And one of our practices dave there was uh you know, that's been our bread and butter for so many years. This, you know, this broad based discovery, narrowing down to a strategy and a plan for migrating and moving certain workloads. We see a slight twist today in that clients and organizations want to move quicker too. The apps, they know that, you know, they want to focus on, they want to prove it by through the broad based discovery and kind of a strategic analysis but they want to get quicker right away to the workloads. They are quite sure that need re factoring or leverage the benefit of a modern developer environment. >>Yeah. And they don't want to be messing around with the provisioning, lungs and servers and all that stuff. They want that to be simplified. So we're gonna end on Green Lake and I want to understand how you guys are thinking about Green Lake in terms of your partnership and, and how you're working together, you know, maybe Toby you could sort of give us the update from your perspective, you can't have a conversation with HP today without talking about Green Lake. So give us the kool aid injection. And then I really interested in how VM ware thinks about participating in that. >>Absolutely. And, and thank you for uh, yeah, for helping us out here. You know, I see more and more of our engagements with clients that ask for and, and, and want to sign a Green Life based contract, >>but, >>and that is one very important foundational element. Uh and there's there's so much more because remember we talked about the cloud experience in cloud everywhere and Green Lake brings us an opportunity to bring dimensions to that, especially on the consumption model because that's that's an important element if we begin adding partners such as VM ware to this equation, especially for clients that have huge investments in VM where there's an opportunity here to really bring a lot of value with this cloud experience to our customers through this partnership. >>All right scott, we're gonna give you the last word. What's your take on this? >>Hey listen hard for me to to to add much to what Toby said, he nailed that you see a ton of energy in this space. I think we've covered a bunch of key topics today. Their ongoing conversations with our customers in Green Lake is a way to take that conversation to the next level. >>Guys really appreciate you coming on and give us your perspectives on kubernetes and and and and thank you scott for that data. 55% of I. T. Decision makers out of 350 said they're doing on prem kubernetes. That's a new stat. I hadn't I would have expected to be that high but I guess I'm not surprised it's the rage the developers want the latest and greatest guys. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and I appreciate you coming on the cube. >>Thank you. Dave. >>Thanks Dave. >>Thank you for watching the cubes ongoing coverage. Hp es discover 2021. The virtual version will be right back.

>>the idea of cloud is changing from a set of remote services somewhere out there in the cloud to an operating model that supports workloads on prem across clouds and increasingly at the near and far edge moreover, workloads are evolving from a predominance of general purpose systems to increasingly data intensive applications, developers are a new breed of innovators and kubernetes is a linchpin of creating new cloud native workloads that are in the cloud but also modernizing existing application portfolios to connect them to cloud native apps. Hello, we want to welcome back to HPD discovered 2021 the cubes ongoing coverage. This is Dave Volonte and with me are scott. Buchanan is the vice president of marketing at VM ware and Toby Weiss, who is the vice president of global hybrid cloud practice at HP gents. Welcome to the Q. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Day agreed to be here. >>Okay, thanks for having >>us. So you heard my little narrative upfront. Um and so let's get into it. I want to start with with some of the key trends that you guys see in the marketplace and maybe scott you could kick us off from VM ware's perspective. What are you seeing that's really driving? Uh I. T. Today. >>Well, Dave you started with a conversation around cloud, right, and you can't really have a conversation around cloud without also talking about applications. And so much of the interaction that we're having with customers these days is about how we bring apps and clouds together and modernize across those two dimensions at the same time. And that's a pretty complex discussion to have and it's a complex journey to navigate. And so we're here to talk to customers and to work with h Pe to help our customers across those two dimensions. >>Great, so Toby I mean, it's always been about applications, as scott said, but but the application, the nature of applications is changing how we develop applications. The mentioned it sort of data intensive applications were injecting ai uh into virtually everything the apps, the process, the people even um uh from a from the perspective of really a company that supports applications with infrastructure, what are you seeing in the marketplace? What can you add to that discussion? >>Yes. Great point. Dave you know, with the scent with applications becoming more central, think about what that means uh and has been for developer communities and developers becoming uh more important customers for I. T. Uh We have to make it easier for these developers uh to speed their innovations to market. Right? The business demands newer and faster capabilities of these applications. So our job in the infrastructure and uh it was called the platform layer is to help we need to build these kinds of platforms that allow developers to innovate more quickly. >>So we talked earlier about sort of modernizing apps. I mean, it seems to me that the starting point there is you want to containerized and obviously kubernetes is the, is the key there, but so okay, so if that's the starting point, where's the journey, what does that look like? Maybe scott you could chime in there >>Sure. A couple of quick thoughts there, dave and Toby to build on first, is if you look at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation Landscape today, which you can do at landscape dot c n c f dot io Holy Smokes, is that a jungle? So a lot of organizations need a guide through that CN cf landscape, they need a partner that they can trust to show them the way through that landscape. And then secondly, there needs to be ways to make these technologies easier to adopt and to use in practice kubernetes being the ultimate example of that. And so we've been hard at work to try and make it easy and natural to make kubernetes Part of 1's existing infrastructure. So that building with and working with containers can be done on the same platform that you're using for virtual machines. >>So let's let's talk a little bit about cloud and how you guys are thinking about cloud. Remember told me that Back in VM World 2010, it was the very first vm world for the Cube. All we talked about was a cloud, but it was a private cloud was really what we were talking about, which at the time largely met the virtualized data center. Um it was kind of before the software defined data center and today we're still talking about cloud, but it's it's hybrid cloud, it's kind of the narrative that I set up front data center. It's become for the most part software to find. And so how do you see this changing the I. T. Operating model? >>I think it's a great question. And and look today you will see us talk a lot about this notion of cloud everywhere. So less differentiation about private and public and more about the experience of cloud. Right public. Cloud brought great innovations and what better than to bring those innovations to on premise workloads that we've chosen to operate and work there. So as we think about cloud more as an experience we want for our developers and our end users and our I. T. Organizations. We begin to think about how can we replicate that experience in an on premise environment. And so part of that is having the technologies that enable you to do that. The other part is um We most of us have evolved alrighty organization operating models to operate our cloud infrastructures off premises. Well now expanding that more holistically across our organization so we don't have to operating models but a single operating model that bridges both and brings the ability of both those together to get the most benefit as we really become to integrate and become truly hybrid in our organization. So I think the operating model is critical and um the kinds of experiences we deliver to the users of that I. T. Uh infrastructure and operating model is critical as well. >>Are you guys are both basically in the infrastructure business scott? Maybe we can start with you there's a lot of changes that we're talking about in it. Generally the data center specifically especially big changes in workloads with a lot more data intensive apps ai being injected into everything Kubernetes, making things more facile. And in many ways it simplifies things, but it also puts stress on the system because you've got to protect this, they're no longer stateless apps right there, state full and you gotta protect them and and so they've got to be compliant. Um Now you've got the edge coming in. Uh So my question is, what does infrastructure have to do to keep pace with all this application innovation? >>Uh One of the conversations that we are having increasingly with our customers is how can they embrace a dev sec ops mindset in their organization and adopt some of these more modern patterns and practices and make sure that security is embedded in the life cycle of the container. And and so, you know, I think that this is part of, the answer is equipping the operator through infrastructure to set guard rails in place so that the development organization can work with freedom inside of those guard rails that it can draw on a catalogs of curated container images, catalogs of apps start from templates. Those are the building blocks that allow developers to work faster and that allow an operator to ensure the integrity and compliance of the containers and the applications that the organizations building. >>Yeah, So, so that's kind of uh when I hear scott talking about that Toby I think infrastructure as code designing security and governance in we always we always said I was an afterthought, we kind of bolted it on second. The security team had to take care of that. This is always the same thing with backup. Right? So we got an app. It's all ready to go. How do we back it up? And so that's changing that whole notion of infrastructure as code. Um, I want to talk about Green lake in a minute, but, but before we get there, I wonder if you could talk about how HP E thinks about VM ware and how you guys are partnering. I'm specifically interested and where each of you sees the value that you bring to the table for your joint customers. >>Yeah, great question. You know, and, and starting to think about history like you did 2010 being the start of a cube journey. I, I remember in 2003 when we first partnered with VM ware in the very first data center consolidations and we built practices around this. It's been quite a long partnership with VM ware and I'm excited to see this. This partnership evolved today, especially into this cloud, native space and direction. Uh, it's critical we need you know uh you know customers have choices and we need great partners like VM ware uh to help satisfy the many different use cases and choices that our customers have. So while we bring you know good depth when it comes to building these infrastructures that become highly automated um and managed in some cases and consume consumable like on a consumption basis and automated like we help clients automate their ci Cd pipeline. We depend on technologies and partners like them where to make these outcomes real for our customers. >>Yeah I think there's a way to connect a couple of the points that we've been talking about today. Got some data from a state of kubernetes study that we just ran and this is 350 I. T. Decision makers who said uh that they're running kubernetes on premise, 55% of respondents are running kubernetes on premise today and so VM ware and HP get to work together to bring kubernetes to those enterprises, 96% of them said that they're having a challenge selecting the right kubernetes distribution, 60 of them in that C. N. C. F. Landscape and the number one criteria that they're going to use to choose the right distribution, you know set them on a path forward is that it's easy to deploy and to operate and to maintain in production. And so I think that this is where the m wear and HP get to come together to help try and keep things as simple as possible for customers as they navigate. A fairly complex world. >>That's interesting scott. So who are those um those on prem users of containers and kubernetes? Is it the is it the head of you know the the application team and an insurance company whose kind of maintaining the claims about? Is it is a guy's building new cloud native apps to help companies get digital first. Who are those? What's the persona look like >>in our conversations? You know, this is the infrastructure and operations team seen that there's energy around kubernetes and maybe there's some use in test and development and parts of the organization. And by centralizing over ownership of that kubernetes footprint, they can ensure that it's compliant if policy is set properly to your point earlier that it's meets the security standards for the organization. And so it's increasingly that SRE or site reliability engineer or platform operator who's taking ownership of that kubernetes footprint for the organization to ensure that consistency of management and experience for the development teams across the larger order Toby, is that what you're seeing? Two, >>yeah, we see uh we see quite a few, we engage with quite a few developer teams in business leads that have ambitions to speed their application development processes And uh you know, they want help and often as I stated, the intro, they might be coming off of a much older deployment uh maybe from 2015 where there there were an early adopter of a container platform methodology and wanting to get to some newer platform or they they may be in charge of getting a mobile banking application and its features to market much more quickly. So, and often when we get a quote maybe from a client, it might come from, you know, the VP of a business unit. But often as we engage, it's, you know, the developers are pretty much our customers and their developer leaders and teams, >>so you're running into container technical debt already. You're seeing that out there. It sounds like your legacy >>container. It takes some expertise to, to come off those older. You know, the first instance creations of these container platforms were pretty much open source. And yeah, you want to bring it to something that's more modern and has the kinds of features, enterprise grade features you might need. >>So is it not so problematic for for customers? Because as I said before, a lot of those apps were sort of disposable and stateless. And, and, and now they're saying, hey, we can actually use kubernetes to build, you know, mission critical apps. And so there, that's when they sort of decide to pivot to a new modern platform or is there a more complex migration involved? What are you seeing? >>Okay, I'll give my hot, take your Toby and then uh, ask you for yours. But I guess I feel like the conversations that I'm involved in with customers is, you know, always begins with their broader application portfolio. These enterprises have hundreds thousands of applications and job one is to figure out how to categorize them into those which need to be re hosted or platforms or re factored or reimagined entirely. And so they're looking for help figuring out how to categorize those applications and ultimately how to attack each category of application. Some should be re platforms on environments that make best use of kubernetes, some need to be re factored, some need to be reimagined. And so they are again looking for that expert guide to show them the way >>right. And when we engage in those early discussions, we call it right Mix advisory. Um, you know, you're trying to take a full of broad scope as he said, scott down to a few and uh you know, determine kind of the first movers if you will also, you know, clients will engage you know, for very specific applications that are or suite of applications. Again like mobile applications for banking I think are a good example because you know they have an ambition. I mean the leader of that kind of application may very well think that is the mission critical application for the company, right? But of course finance, they have a different point of view. So you know that that application to them is the center of their business getting, you know, their customer access to the core banking features that they have and you know, they want to zero in on the kind of ecosystem. It takes in in the speed at which they can push new features through. So we see both as well um you know, the broader scope application, weaning down to the few discovery application, uh and then of course a very focused effort to help a particular business unit speed development on their mobile app, for example, >>it's interesting scott you were talking about sort of the conversation starts with the application portfolio and there have been there have been these sort of milestones around, you know, major application portfolio, I'll call him rationalizations, I mean there's always an ongoing but y two K was one of those, this is sort of the big move to SAS was another one, obviously cloud and it feels like kubernetes, I mean it's like the cloud to Dato coming on Prem is another one of those opportunities to rationalize applications. We all know the stats right, we always see 85% of the spend is to keep the lights on and the other the only small portions innovation and you know, there's always a promise we can change that. It reminds me of the every year I would go to the boston marathon, it was this guy would run and he had a hat on with the extension and it was a can of Budweiser way out there and he couldn't reach it and so he would run, it was almost the same thing here is they never get there because they have so many projects coming online and the project portfolio and and then and then the C I O has got to maintain those in the application heads and so it's this, this ongoing thing but you do see spikes in rationalization initiatives and it feels like with this push to modernization and digitization maybe the pandemic accelerated that too. Is that a reasonable premise? You seeing sort of a milestone or a marker in terms of increased effort around rationalization and modernization today because of kubernetes? >>Yeah, I definitely think that there are a couple of kubernetes is a catalyzing technology and the challenges of the pandemic or a catalyzing moment. Right. And I feel like uh Organisations have seen over the past 18 months now that those enterprises that have a way to get innovation to market to customers faster, not once a quarter, but many times a day are the ones that are separating themselves in competitive marketplaces and ultimately delivering superior customer experiences. So it comes back to some of the ideas full circle that Toby started with around delivering a superior developer experience so that those developers can get code to production and into the hands of customers on a much more rapid basis. Like that's the outcome that enterprises really care about at the end of the day. And kubernetes is part of the way to get there. But it's the outcome that's key. Great, thank >>you. And one of our practices dave there was uh you know, that's been our bread and butter for so many years. This, you know, this broad based discovery, narrowing down to a strategy and a plan for migrating and moving certain workloads. We see a slight twist today in that clients and organizations want to move quicker too. The apps, they know that, you know, they want to focus on, they want to prove it by through the broad based discovery and kind of a strategic analysis, but they want to get quicker right away to the workloads. They are quite sure that need re factoring or leverage the benefit of a modern developer environment >>and they don't want to be messing around with provisioning lungs and servers and all that stuff. They want that to be simplified. So we're gonna end on Green Lake and I want to understand how you guys are thinking about Green Lake in terms of your partnership and how you're working together, you know, maybe Toby you could sort of give us the update from your perspective, you can't have a conversation with HP today without talking about Green Lake. So give us the kool aid injection. And then I really interested in how VM ware thinks about participating in that. >>Absolutely. And, and thank you for uh, yeah, for helping us out here. You know, I see more and more of our engagements with clients that ask for and, and, and want to sign a Green Life based contract, >>but, >>and that is one very important foundational element. Uh and there's there's so much more because remember we talked about the cloud experience in cloud everywhere and Green Lake brings us an opportunity to bring dimensions to that, especially on the consumption model because that's that's an important element if we begin adding partners such as VM ware to this equation, especially for clients that have huge investments in VM where there's an opportunity here to really bring a lot of value with this cloud experience to our customers through this partnership. >>All right scott, we're gonna give you the last word. What's your take on this? >>Hey listen hard for me to to to add much to what Toby said, he nailed that you see a ton of energy in this space. I think we've covered a bunch of key topics today. Their ongoing conversations with our customers in Green Link is a way to take that conversation to the next level. >>Guys really appreciate you coming on and give us your perspectives on kubernetes and and and and thank you scott for that data. 55% of I. T. Decision makers out of 350 said they're doing on prem kubernetes. That's a new stat. I hadn't I would have expected to be that high but I guess I'm not surprised it's the rage the developers want the latest and greatest guys. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and I appreciate you coming on the cube. >>Thank you. Dave. >>Thanks Dave. >>Thank you for watching the cubes ongoing coverage. Hp es discover 2021. The virtual version will be right back. >>Mm.

>>and hello, we're back. I've got my panel and we are doing things real time here. So sorry for the delay a few minutes late. So the way let's talk about things, the reason we're here and we're going around the room and introduce everybody. Got three special guests here. I got my evil or my john and the normal And we're going to talk about get ops I called it future office just because I want to think about what's the next thing for that at the end, we're gonna talk about what our ideas for what's next for getups, right? Um, because we're all starting to just get into get ups now. But of course a lot of us are always thinking about what's next? What's better? How can we make this thing better? So we're going to take your questions. That's the reason we're here, is to take your questions and answer them. Or at least the best we can for the next hour. And all right, so let's go around the room and introduce yourself. My name is Brett. I am streaming from Brett from that. From Brett. From Virginia Beach in Virginia beach, Virginia, United States. Um, and I talk about things on the internet, I sell courses on you, to me that talk about Docker and kubernetes Ive or introduce yourself. >>How's it going? Everyone, I'm a software engineer at axel Springer, currently based in Berlin and I happen to be Brett Brett's teaching assistant. >>All right, that's right. We're in, we're in our courses together almost every day. Mm john >>hey everyone, my name is john Harris, I used to work at Dhaka um, I now work at VM ware is a star field engineer. Um, so yeah, >>and normal >>awesome by the way, you are streaming from Brett Brett, >>I answered from breath to breath. >>Um I'm normal method. I'm a distinguished engineer with booz allen and I'm also a doctor captain and it's good to see either in person and it's good to see you again john it's been a little while. >>It has the pre covid times, right? You're up here in Seattle. >>Yeah. It feels, it feels like an eternity ago. >>Yeah, john shirt looks red and reminds me of the Austin T shirt. So I was like, yeah, so we all, we all have like this old limited edition doctor on E. >>T. That's a, that's a classic. >>Yeah, I scored that one last year. Sometimes with these old conference church, you have to like go into people's closets. I'm not saying I did that. Um, but you know, you have to go steal stuff, you to find ways to get the swag >>post post covid. If you ever come to my place, I'm going to have to lock the closets. That >>that's right, That's right. >>So the second I think it was the second floor of the doctor HQ in SAn Francisco was where they kept all the T shirts, just boxes and boxes and boxes floor to ceiling. So every time I went to HQ you just you just as many as you can fit in your luggage. I think I have about 10 of these. You >>bring an extra piece of luggage just for your your shirt shirt grab. Um All right, so I'm going to start scanning questions uh so that you don't have to you can you help you all are welcome to do that. And I'm going to start us off with the topic. Um So let's just define the parameters. Like we can talk about anything devops and here we can go down and plenty of rabbit holes. But the kind of, the goal here is to talk about get ups and get ups if you haven't heard about it is essentially uh using versioning systems like get like we've all been getting used to as developers to track your infrastructure changes, not just your code changes and then automate that with a bunch of tooling so that the robots take over. And essentially you have get as a central source of truth and then get log as a central source of history and then there's a bunch of magic little bits in the middle and then supposedly everything is wonderful. It's all automatic. The reality is is what it's often quite messy, quite tricky to get everything working. And uh the edges of this are not perfect. Um so it is a relatively new thing. It's probably three, maybe four years old as an official thing from. We've uh so we're gonna get into it and I'll let's go around the room and the same word we did before and um not to push on that, put you on the spot or anything. But what is, what is one of the things you either like or either hate about getups um that you've enjoyed either using it or you know, whatever for me. I really, I really love that I can point people to a repo that basically is hopefully if they look at the log a tracking, simplistic tracking of what might have changed in that part of the world or the environment. I remember many years past where, you know, I've had executive or some mid level manager wants to see what the changes were or someone outside my team went to see what we just changed. It was okay, they need access to this system into that dashboard and that spreadsheet and then this thing and it was always so complicated and now in a world where if we're using get up orbit bucket or whatever where you can just say, hey go look at that repo if there was three commits today, probably three changes happened. That's I love that particular part about it. Of course it's always more complicated than that. But um Ive or I know you've been getting into this stuff recently. So um any thoughts? Yeah, I think >>my favorite part about get ops is >>reproducibility. Um >>you know the ability to just test something and get it up and running >>and then just tear it down. >>Uh not >>being worried that how did I configure it the first time? I think that's my favorite part about >>it. I'm changing your background as we do this. >>I was going to say, did you just do it get ups pushed to like change his >>background, just a dialogue that different for that green screen equals false? Uh Change the background. Yeah, I mean, um and I mean I think last year was really my first year of actually using it on anything significant, like a real project. Um so I'm still, I still feel like I'm very new to john you anything. >>Yeah, it's weird getups is that thing which kind of crystallizes maybe better than anything else, the grizzled veteran life cycle of emotions with the technology because I think it's easy to get super excited about something new. And when I first looked into get up, so I think this is even before it was probably called getups, we were looking at like how to use guest source of truth, like everything sounds great, right? You're like, wait, get everyone knows, get gets the source of truth, There's a load of robust tooling. This just makes a sense. If everything dies, we can just apply the get again, that would be great. Um and then you go through like the trough of despair, right? We're like, oh no, none of this works. The application is super stateless if this doesn't work and what do we do with secrets and how do we do this? Like how do we get people access in the right place and then you realize everything is terrible again and then everything it equalizes and you're kind of, I think, you know, it sounds great on paper and they were absolutely fantastic things about it, but I think just having that measured approach to it, like it's, you know, I think when you put it best in the beginning where you do a and then there's a magic and then you get C. Right, like it's the magic, which is >>the magic is the mystery, >>right? >>Magic can be good and bad and in text so >>very much so yeah, so um concurrence with with john and ever uh in terms of what I like about it is the potential to apply it to moving security to left and getting closer to a more stable infrastructures code with respect to the whole entire environment. Um And uh and that reconciliation loop, it reminds me of what, what is old is new again? Right? Well, quote unquote old um in terms of like chef and puppet and that the reconciliation loop applied in a in a more uh in a cleaner interface and and into the infrastructure that we're kind of used to already, once you start really digging into kubernetes what I don't like and just this is in concurrence with the other Panelist is it's relatively new. It has um, so it has a learning curve and it's still being, you know, it's a very active um environment and community and that means that things are changing and constantly and there's like new ways and new patterns as people are exploring how to use it. And I think that trough of despair is typically figuring out incrementally what it actually is doing for you and what it's not going to solve for you, right, john, so like that's that trough of despair for a bit and then you realize, okay, this is where it fits potentially in my architecture and like anything, you have to make that trade off and you have to make that decision and accept the trade offs for that. But I think it has a lot of promise for, for compliance and security and all that good stuff. >>Yeah. It's like it's like the potentials, there's still a lot more potential than there is uh reality right now. I think it's like I feel like we're very early days and the idea of especially when you start getting into tooling that doesn't appreciate getups like you're using to get up to and use something else and that tool has no awareness of the concept so it doesn't flow well with all of the things you're trying to do and get um uh things that aren't state based and all that. So this is going to lead me to our first question from Camden asking dumb questions by the way. No dumb questions here. Um How is get apps? Not just another name for C. D. Anybody want to take that as an answer as a question. How is get up is not just another name for C. D. I have things but we can talk about it. I >>feel like we need victor foster kids. Yeah, sure you would have opinions. Yeah, >>I think it's a very yeah. One person replied said it's a very specific it's an opinionated version of cd. That's a great that's a great answer like that. Yeah. >>It's like an implement. Its it's an implementation of deployment if you want it if you want to use it for that. All right. I realize now it's kind of hard in terms of a physical panel and a virtual panel to figure out who on the panel is gonna, you know, ready to jump in to answer a question. But I'll take it. So um I'll um I'll do my best inner victor and say, you know, it's it's an implementation of C. D. And it's it's a choice right? It's one can just still do docker build and darker pushes and doctor pulls and that's fine. Or use other technologies to deploy containers and pods and change your, your kubernetes infrastructure. But get apps is a different implementation, a different method of doing that same thing at the end of the day. Yeah, >>I like it. I like >>it and I think that goes back to your point about, you know, it's kind of early days still, I think to me what I like about getups in that respect is it's nice to see kubernetes become a platform where people are experimenting with different ways of doing things, right? And so I think that encourages like lots of different patterns and overall that's going to be a good thing for the community because then more, you know, and not everything needs to settle in terms of only one way of doing things, but a lot of different ways of doing things helps people fit, you know, the tooling to their needs, or helps fit kubernetes to their needs, etcetera. Yeah, >>um I agree with that, the, so I'm gonna, since we're getting a load of good questions, so um one of the, one of the, one of the, I want to add to that real quick that one of the uh from the, we've people themselves, because I've had some on the show and one of things that I look at it is distinguishing is with continuous deployment tools, I sort of think that it's almost like previous generation and uh continuous deployment tools can be anything like we would consider Jenkins cd, right, if you if you had an association to a server and do a doctor pull and you know, dr up or dr composed up rather, or if it did a cube control apply uh from you know inside an ssh tunnel or something like that was considered considered C. D. Well get ops is much more rigid I think in terms of um you you need to apply, you have a specific repo that's all about your deployments and because of what tool you're using and that one your commit to a specific repo or in a specific branch that repo depends on how you're setting it up. That is what kicks off a workflow. And then secondly there's an understanding of state. So a lot of these tools now I have uh reconciliation where they they look at the cluster and if things are changing they will actually go back and to get and the robots will take over and will commit that. Hey this thing has changed um and you maybe you human didn't change it, something else might have changed it. So I think that's where getups is approaching it, is that ah we we need to we need to consider more than just a couple of commands that be runnin in a script. Like there needs to be more than that for a getups repo to happen anyway, that's just kind of the the take back to take away I took from a previous conversation with some people um >>we've I don't think that lost, its the last piece is really important, right? I think like for me, C d like Ci cd, they're more philosophical ideas, write a set of principles, right? Like getting an idea or a code change to environments promoting it. It's very kind of pipeline driven um and it's very imperative driven, right? Like our existing CD tools are a lot of the ways that people think about Cd, it would be triggered by an event, maybe a code push and then these other things are happening in sequence until they either fail or pass, right? And then we're done. Getups is very much sitting on the, you know, the reconciliation side, it's changing to a pull based model of reconciliation, right? Like it's very declarative, it's just looking at the state and it's automatically pulling changes when they happen, rather than this imperative trigger driven model. That's not to say that there aren't city tools which we're doing pull based or you can do pull based or get ups is doing anything creatively revolutionary here, but I think that's one of the main things that the ideas that are being introduced into those, like existing C kind of tools and pipelines, um certainly the pull based model and the reconciliation model, which, you know, has a lot in common with kubernetes and how those kind of controllers work, but I think that's the key idea. Yeah. >>Um This is a pretty specific one Tory asks, does anyone have opinions about get ops in a mono repo this is like this is getting into religion a little bit. How many repos are too many repose? How um any thoughts on that? Anyone before I rant, >>go >>for it, go for it? >>Yeah. How I'm using it right now in a monitor repo uh So I'm using GIT hub. Right, so you have what? The workflow and then inside a workflow? Yeah, mo file, I'll >>track the >>actual changes to the workflow itself, as well as a folder, which is basically some sort of service in Amman Arepa, so if any of those things changes, it'll trigger the actual pipeline to run. So that's like the simplest thing that I could figure out how to, you know, get it set up using um get hubs, uh workflow path future. Yeah. And it's worked for me for writing, you know? That's Yeah. >>Yeah, the a lot of these things too, like the mono repo discussion will, it's very tool specific. Each tool has various levels of support for branch branching and different repos and subdirectories are are looking at the defense and to see if there's changes in that specific directory. Yeah. Sorry, um john you're going to say something, >>I was just going to say, I've never really done it, but I imagine the same kind of downsides of mono repo to multiple report would exist there. I mean, you've got the blast radius issues, you've got, you know, how big is the mono repo? Do we have to pull does the tool have to pull that or cashier every time it needs to determine def so what is the support for being able to just look at directories versus you know, I think we can get way down into a deeper conversation. Maybe we'll save it for later on in the conversation about what we're doing. Get up, how do we structure our get reposed? We have super granular repo per environment, Perper out reaper, per cluster repo per whatever or do we have directories per environment or branches per environment? How how is everything organized? I think it's you know, it's going to be one of those, there's never one size fits all. I'll give the class of consultant like it depends answer. Right? >>Yeah, for sure. It's very similar to the code struggle because it depends. >>Right? >>Uh Yeah, it's similar to the to the code problem of teams trying to figure out how many repose for their code. Should they micro service, should they? Semi micro service, macro service. Like I mean, you know because too many repose means you're doing a bunch of repo management, a bunch of changes on your local system, you're constantly get pulling all these different things and uh but if you have one big repo then it's it's a it's a huge monolithic thing that you usually have to deal with. Path based issues of tools that only need to look at a specific directory and um yeah, it's a it's a culture, I feel like yeah, like I keep going back to this, it's a culture thing. Does your what is your team prefer? What do you like? What um what's painful for everyone and who's what's the loudest pain that you need to deal with? Is it is it repo management? That's the pain um or is it uh you know, is that that everyone's in one place and it's really hard to keep too many cooks out of the kitchen, which is a mono repo problem, you know? Um How do we handle security? So this is a great one from Tory again. Another great question back to back. And that's the first time we've done that um security as it pertains to get up to anyone who can commit can change the infrastructure. Yes. >>Yes. So the tooling that you have for your GIT repo and the authentication, authorization and permissions that you apply to the GIT repo using a get server like GIT hub or get lab or whatever your flavor of the day is is going to be how security is handled with respect to changes in your get ups configuration repository. So um that is completely specific to your implementation of that or ones implementation of of how they're handling that. Get repositories that the get ups tooling is looking at. To reconcile changes with respect to the permissions of the for lack of better term robot itself. Right? They get up tooling like flux or Argosy. D Um one kid would would create a user or a service account or uh other kind of authentication measures to limit the permissions for that service account that the Gaddafi's tooling needs to be able to read the repose and and send commits etcetera. So that is well within the realm of what you have already for your for your get your get um repo. Yeah. >>Yeah. A related question is from a g what they like about get apps if done nicely for a newbie it's you can get stuff done easily if you what they dislike about it is when you have too many get repose it becomes just too complicated and I agree. Um was making a joke with a team the other week that you know the developer used to just make one commit and they would pass pass it on to a QA team that would then eventually emerging in the master. But they made the commits to these feature branches or whatever. But now they make a commit, they make a pR there for their code then they go make a PR in the helm chart to update the thing to do that and then they go make a PR in the get ups repeal for Argo. And so we talked about that they're probably like four or five P. R. Is just to get their code in the production. But we were talking about the negative of that but the reality was It's just five or 4 or five prs like it wasn't five different systems that had five different methodologies and tooling and that. So I looked at it I was like well yeah that's kind of a pain in the get sense but you're also dealing with one type. It's a repetitive action but it's it's the one thing I don't have to go to five different systems with five different ways of doing it. And once in the web and one's on the client wants a command line that I don't remember. Um Yeah so it's got pros and cons I think when you >>I think when you get to the scale where those kind of issues are a problem then you're probably at the scale where you can afford to invest some time into automation into that. Right? Like what I've when I've seen this in larger customers or larger organizations if there ever at that stage where okay apps are coming up all the time. You know, there's a 10 X 100 X developer to operations folks who may be creating get repose setting up permissions then that stuff gets automated, right? Like, you know, maybe ticket based systems or whatever. Developers say I need a new app. It templates things or more often using the same model, right of reconciliation and operators and the horrific abuse of cogs that we're seeing in the communities community right now. Um You know, developers can create a crd which just says, hey, I'm creating a new app is called app A and then a controller will pick up that app a definition. It will go create a get a repo Programmatically it will add the right definitely will look up and held up the developers and the permissions that need to be able to get to that repo it will create and template automatically some name space and the clusters that it needs in the environments that it needs, depending on, you know, some metadata it might read. So I think, you know, those are definite problems and they're definitely like a teething, growing pain thing. But once you get to that scale, you kind of need to step back and say, well look, we just need to invest in time into the operational aspect of this and automating this pain away, I think. Yeah, >>yeah. And that ultimately ends in Yeah. Custom tooling, which it's hard to avoid it at scale. I mean, there's there's two, there's almost two conversations here, right. There is what I call the Solo admin Solo devops, I bought that domain Solo devops dot com because, you know, whenever I'm talking to dr khan in the real world, it's like I asked people to raise hands, I don't know how we can raise hands here, but I would ask people to raise hands and see how many of you here are. The sole person responsible for deploying the app that your team makes and like a quarter of the room would raise their hand. So I call that solo devops like those, that person can't make all the custom tooling in the world. So they really need dr like solutions where it's opinionated, the workflow is sort of built in and they don't have to wrangle things together with a bunch of glue, you know, in other words bash. Um and so this kind of comes to a conversation uh starting this question from lee he's asking how do you combine get ops with ci cd, especially the continuous bit. How do you avoid having a human uh sort of the complaint the team I was working with has, how do you avoid a human editing and get committing for every single deploy? They've settled on customized templates and a script for routine updates. So as a seed for this conference, this question I'm gonna ask you all uh instead of that specific question cause it's a little open ended. Um Tell me whether you agree with this. I I kind of look at the image, the image artifact because the doctor image or container image in general is an artifact that I I view it that way and that thing going into the registry with the right label or right part of the label. Um That tag rather not the label but the tag that to me is like one of the great demarche points of, we're kind of done with Ci and we're now into the deployment phase and it doesn't necessarily mean the tooling is a clear cut there, but that artifact being shipped in a specific way or promoted as we sometimes say. Um what do you think? Does anyone have opinions on that? I don't even know if that's the right opinion to have so mhm. >>So um I think what you're, what you're getting at is that get ups, models can trigger off of different events um to trigger the reconciliation loop. And one way to do that is if the image, if it notices a image change in the registry, the other is if there's a commit event on a specific rebo and branch and it's up to, you are up to the person that's implementing their get ups model, what event to trigger there, that reconciliation loop off of, You can do both, you can do one or the other. It also depends on the Templeton engine that you're using on top of um on top of kubernetes, such as helm or um you know, the other ones that are out there or if you're not even doing that, then, you know straight. Yeah, mo um so it kind of just depends, but those are the typically the two options one has and a combination of of those to trigger that event. You can also just trigger it manually, right? You can go into the command line and force a a, you know, a really like a scan or a new reconciliation loop to occur. So it kind of just, I don't want to say this, but it depends on what you're trying to do and what makes sense in your pipeline. Right? So if you're if you're set up where you are tag, if you're doing it based off of image tags, then you probably want to use get ups in a way that you're using the image tags. Right. And the pattern that you've established there, if you're not really doing that and you're more around, like, different branches are mapped to different environments, then triggered off of the correct branch. And that's where the permissions also come into play. Where if you don't want someone to touch production and you've got your getups for your production cluster based off of like uh you know, a main branch, then whoever can push a change to that main branch has the authority to push that change to production. Right? So that's your authentication and permissions um system same for the registry itself. Right. So >>Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, anyone else have any thoughts on that? I was about to go to the next topic, >>I was going to say. I think certain tools dictate the approach, like, if you're using Argosy d it's I think I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only way to use it right now is just through image modification. Like, the manifest changes, it looks at a specific directory and anything changes then it will do its thing. And uh Synchronize the cost there with whatever's and get >>Yeah, flux has both. Yeah, and flux has both. So it it kind of depends. I think you can make our go do that too, but uh this is back to what we were saying in the beginning, uh you know, these things are changing, right? So that might be what it is right now in terms of triggering the reconciliation loops and get ups, tooling, but there might be other events in the future that might trigger it, and it's not completely stand alone because you still need you're tooling to do any kind of testing or whatever you have in terms of like the specific pipeline. So oftentimes you're bolting in getups into some other part of broader Cfd solution. That makes sense. Yeah, >>we've got a lot of questions about secrets or people that are asking about secrets. >>So my my tongue and cheek answered the secrets question was, what's the best practices for kubernetes? Secrets? That's the same thing for secrets with good apps? Uh getups is not last time I checked and last time I was running this stuff get ups is not has nothing to do with secrets in that sense. It's just there to get your stuff running on communities. So, um there's probably a really good session on secrets at dr concept. I >>would agree with you, I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, get off stools, I mean every every project of mine handles secrets differently. Uh huh. And I think I'm not sure if it was even when I was talking to but talking to someone recently that I'm very bullish on get up actions, I love get up actions, it's not great for deployments yet, but we do have this new thing and get hub environments, I think it's called. So it allows me at least the store secrets per environment, which it didn't have the concept of that before, which you know, if you if any of you running kubernetes out there, you typically end up when you start running kubernetes, you end up with more than one kubernetes, like you're going to end up with a lot of clusters at some point, at least many multiple, more than two. Um and so if you're trying to store secret somewhere, you do have and there's a discussion happening in chat right now where people are talking about um sealed secrets which if you haven't heard of that, go look that up and just be versed on what sealed secrets is because it's a it's a fantastic concept for how to store secrets in the public. Um I love it because I'm a big P. K. I nerd but um it's not the only way and it doesn't fit all models. So I have clients that use A W. S. Secrets because they're in A W. S. And then they just have to use the kubernetes external secret. But again like like like normal sand, you know, it's that doesn't really affect get ops, get ops is just applying whatever helm charts or jahmal or images that you're, you're you're deploying, get off. It was more about the approach of when the changes happen and whether it's a push or pull model like we're talking about and you know, >>I would say there's a bunch of prerequisites to get ups secrets being one of them because the risk of you putting a secret into your git repo if you haven't figured out your community secrets architecture and start diving into getups is high and removing secrets from get repose is you know, could be its own industry, right. It's >>a thing, >>how do >>I hide this? How do I obscure this commit that's already now on a dozen machines. >>So there are some prerequisites in terms of when you're ready to adopt get up. So I think is the right way of saying the answer to that secrets being one of them. >>I think the secrets was the thing that made me, you know, like two or three years ago made me kind of see the ah ha moment when it came to get ups which, which was that the premier thing that everyone used to say about get up about why it was great. Was its the single source of truth. There's no state anywhere else. You just need to look at git. Um and then secrets may be realized along with a bunch of other things down the line that is not true and will never be true. So as soon as you can lose the dogmatism about everything is going to be and get it's fantastic. As long as you've understood everything is not going to get. There are things which will absolutely never be and get some tools just don't deal with that. They need to earn their own state, especially in communities, some controls on their own state. You know, cuz sealed secrets and and other projects like SOps and I think there are two or three others. That's a great way of dealing with secrets if you want to keep them in get. But you know, projects like vault more kind of like what I would say, production grade secret strategies. Right? And if you're in AWS or a cloud, you're more likely to be using their secrets. Your secret policy is maybe not dictated by you in large organizations might be dictated by CSO or security or Great. Like I think once if you, if you're trying to adopt getups or you're thinking about it, get the dogmatism of get as a single point of truth out of your mind and think about getups more as a philosophy and a set of best practice principles, then you will be in much better stead, >>right? Yeah. >>People are asking more questions in chat like infrastructure as code plus C d essentially get ups or C I rather, um, these are all great questions and a part of the debate, I'm actually just going to throw up on screen. I'm gonna put this in chat, but this is, this is to me the source, Right? So we worked with when they coined the term. We, a lot of us have been trying to get, if we talk about the history for a minute and then tell me if I'm getting this right. Um, a lot of us were trying to automate all these different parts of the puzzle, but a lot of them, they, some things might have been infrastructure as code. Some things weren't, some things were sort of like settings is coded, like you're going to Jenkins and type in secrets and settings or type in a certain thing in the settings of Jenkins and then that it wasn't really in get and so what we was trying to go for was a way to have almost like eventually a two way state understanding where get might change your infrastructure but then your infrastructure might also change and needs to be reflected in the get if the get is trying to be the single source of truth. Um and like you're saying the reality is that you're never gonna have one repo that has all of your infrastructure in it, like you would have to have, you have to have all your terra form, anything else you're spinning up. Right. Um but anyway, I'm gonna put this link in chat. So this guide actually, uh one of things they talk about is what it's not, so it's, it's kind of great to read through the different requirements and like what I was saying well ago um mhm. Having having ci having infrastructure as code and then trying a little bit of continuous deployment out, it's probably a prerequisite. Forget ops so it's hard to just jump into that when you don't already have infrastructure as code because a machine doing stuff on your behalf, it means that you have to have things documented and somewhere and get repo but let me put this in the in the >>chitty chat, I would like to know if the other panelists agree, but I think get apps is a okay. I would say it's a moderate level, it's not a beginner level communities thing, it's like a moderate level advanced, a little bit more advanced level. Um One can start off using it but you definitely have to have some pre recs in place or some understanding of like a pattern in place. Um So what do the other folks think about that opinion? >>I think if you're if you're trying to use get out before, you know what problem you have, you're probably gonna be in trouble. Right. It's like having a solution to it probably don't have yet. Mhm. Right. I mean if if you're just evil or and you're just typing, keep control apply, you're one person right, Get off. It doesn't seem like a big a big jump, like, I mean it doesn't like why would I do that? I'm just, I'm just gonna inside, it's the type of get commit right, I'm typing Q control apply. But I think one of the rules from we've is none of your developers and none of your admins can have cute control access to the cluster because if you can't, if you do have access and you can just apply something, then that's just infrastructure as code. That's just continuous deployment, that's, that's not really get ops um, getups implies that the only way things get into the cluster is through the get up, get automation that you're using with, you know, flux Argo, we haven't talked about, what's the other one that Victor Farsi talks about, by the way people are asking about victor, because victor would love to talk about this stuff, but he's in my next life, so come back in an hour and a half or whatever and victor is going to be talking about sys, admin list with me. Um >>you gotta ask him nothing but get up questions in the next, >>confuse them, confuse them. But anyway, that, that, that's um, it's hard, it's hard to understand and without having tried it, I think conceptually it's a little challenging >>one thing with getups, especially based off the we've works blog post that you just put up on there. It's an opinionated way of doing something. Uh you know, it's an opinionated way of of delivering changes to an environment to your kubernetes environment. So it's opinionated were often not used to seeing things that are very opinionated in this sense, in the in the ecosystem, but get apps is a opinionated thing. It's it's one way of doing it. Um there are ways to change it and like there are options um like what we were talking about in terms of the events that trigger, but the way that it's structured is an opinion opinionated way both from like a tooling perspective, like using get etcetera, but also from a devops cultural perspective, right? Like you were talking about not having anyone access cube control and changing the cluster directly. That's a philosophical opinion that get ups forces you to adopt otherwise. It kind of breaks the model and um I just I want everyone to just understand that. That is very opinion, anything in that sense. Yeah, >>polygamy is another thing. Infrastructure as code. Um someone's mentioning plummy and chat, I just had actually my life show self plug bread that live go there. I'm on Youtube every week. I did the same thing. These these are my friends um and had palami on two weeks ago uh last week, remember uh and it was in the last couple of weeks and we talked about their infrastructure as code solution. Were actually writing code instead of um oh that's an interesting take on uh developer team sort of owning coding the infrastructure through code rather than Yamil as a data language. I don't really have an opinion on it yet because I haven't used it in production or anything in the real real world, but um, I'm not sure how much they are applying trying to go towards the get up stuff. I will do a plug for Solomon hikes. Who has a, the beginning of the day, it's already happened so you can go back and watch it. It's a, it's a, what's it called? Q. Rethinking application delivery with Q. And build kit. So go look this up. This is the found co founder of Dr and former CTO Solomon hikes at the beginning of the day. He has a tool called dagger. I'm not sure why the title of the talk is delivering with Q. And built it, but the tool is showing off in there for an hour is called dagger. And it's, it's an interesting idea on how to apply a lot of this opinionated automated stuff to uh, to deployment and it's get off space and you use Q language. It's a graph language. I watched most of it and it was a really interesting take. I'm excited to see if that takes off and if they try that because it's another way that you can get a little bit more advanced with your you're get deployments and without having to just stick everything in Yemen, which is kind of what we're in today with helm charts and what not. All right. More questions about secrets, I think. I think we're not going to have a whole lot of more, a lot more about secrets basically. Uh put secrets in your cluster to start with and kubernetes in encrypted, you know, thing. And then, you know, as it gets harder, then you have to find another solution when you have five clusters, you don't wanna have to do it five times. That's when you have to go for Walton A W. S secrets and all >>that. Right? I'm gonna post it note. Yeah. Crm into the cluster. Just kidding. >>Yes, there are recordings of this. Yes, they will be later. Uh, because we're that these are all gonna be on youtube later. Um, yeah, detects secrets cushion saying detect secrets or get Guardian are absolute requirements. I think it's in reference to your secrets comment earlier. Um, Camels asking about Cuban is dropping support for Docker that this is not the place to ask for that, but it, it is uh, basically it's a Nonevent Marantz has actually just created that same plug in available in a different repos. So if you want to keep using Docker and kubernetes, you know, you can do it like it's no big deal. Most of us aren't using doctor in our communities anyway, so we're using like container D or whatever is provided to us by our provider. Um yeah, thank you so much for all these comments. These are great people helping each other and chat. I feel like we're just here to make sure the chats available so people can help each other. >>I feel like I want to pick up on something when you mentioned pollux me, I think there's a um we're talking about getups but I think in the original like the origination of that I guess was deploying applications to clusters right, picking up deployment manifest. But I think with the gloomy and I obviously terra form and things have been around a long time, folks are starting to apply this I think I found one earlier which was like um kub stack the Terror Forms get ups framework. Um but also with the advent of things like cluster A. P. I. Um in the Cuban at the space where you can declare actively build the infrastructure for your clusters and build the cluster right? We're not just talking about deploying applications, the cluster A. P. I will talk to a W. S. Spin up, VPc spin up machines, you know, we'll do the same kind of things that terra form does and and those other tools do I think applying getups principles to the infrastructure spin up right, the proper infrastructure as code stuff, constantly applying Terror form um you know, plans and whatever, constantly applying cluster Api resources spinning up stuff in those clouds. That's a super interesting. Um you know, extension of this area, I'd be curious to see if what the folks think about that. >>Yeah, that's why I picked this topic is one of my three. Uh I got I got to pick the topics. I was like the three things that there like the most bleeding edge exciting. Most people haven't, we haven't basically we haven't figured all this out yet. We as an industry, so um it's I think we're gonna see more ideas on it. Um what's the one with the popsicle as the as the icon victor talks about all the time? It's not it's another getups like tool, but it's um it's getups for you use this kubernetes limit and then we have to look it up, >>You're talking about cross plane. >>So >>my >>wife is over here with the sound effects and the first sound effect of the day that she chooses to use is one. >>All right, can we pick it? Let's let's find another question bret >>I'm searching >>so many of them. All right, so uh I think one really quick one is getups only for kubernetes, I think the main to tooling to tools that we're talking about, our Argosy D and flux and they're mostly geared toward kubernetes deployments but there's a, it seems like they're organized in a way that there's a clean abstraction in with respect to the agent that's doing the deployment and the tooling that that can interact with. So I would imagine that in the future and this might be true already right now that get ups could be applied to other types of deployments at some point in the future. But right now it's mostly focused and treats kubernetes as a first class citizen or the tooling on top of kubernetes, let's say something like how as a first class citizen? Yeah, to Brett, >>to me the field, back to you bret the thing I was looking for is cross plane. So that's another tool. Um Victor has been uh sharing a lot about it in Youtube cross plane and that is basically runs inside a kubernetes, but it handles your other infrastructure besides your app. It allows you to like get ops, you're a W. S stuff by using the kubernetes state engine as a, as a way to manage that. And I have not used it yet, but he does some really great demos on Youtube. So people are liking this idea of get off, so they're trying to figure out how do we, how do we manage state? How do we uh because the probably terra form is that, well, there's many problems, but it's always a lot of problems, but in the get outs world it's not quite the right fit yet, It might be, but you still, it's still largely as expected for people to, you know, like type the command, um, and it keeps state locally the ss, clouds and all that. And but the other thing is I'm I'm now realizing that when I saw the demo from Solomon, I'm going back to the Solomon hikes thing. He was using the demo and he was showing it apply deploying something on S three buckets, employing internet wifi and deploying it on google other things beyond kubernetes and saying that it's all getups approach. So I think we're just at the very beginning of seeing because it all started with kubernetes and now there's a swarm one, you can look up swarm, get office and there's a swarm, I can't take the name of it. Swarm sink I think is what's called swarm sink on git hub, which allows you to do swarm based getups like things. And now we're seeing these other tools coming out. They're saying we're going to try to do the get ups concepts, but not for kubernetes specifically and that's I think, you know, infrastructure as code started with certain areas of the world and then now then now we all just assume that you're going to have an infrastructure as code way of doing whatever that is and I think get off is going to have that same approach where pretty soon, you know, we'll have get apps for all the clouds stuff and it won't just be flexor Argo. And then that's the weird thing is will flex and Argo support all those things or will it just be focused on kubernetes apps? You know, community stuff? >>There's also, I think this is what you're alluding to. There is a trend of using um kubernetes and see rDS to provision and control things that are outside of communities like the cloud service providers services as if they were first class entities within kubernetes so that you can use the kubernetes um focus tooling for things that are not communities through the kubernetes interface communities. Yeah, >>yeah, even criticism. >>Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to say that sounds like cross plane. >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's uh there were, you know, for the last couple of years, it's been flux and are going back and forth. Um they're like frenemies, you know, and they've been going back and forth with iterating on these ideas of how do we manage this complicated thing? That is many kubernetes clusters? Um because like Argo, I don't know if the flux V two can do this, but Argo can manage multiple clusters now from one cluster, so your, you can manage other clusters, technically external things from a single entity. Um Originally flux couldn't do that, but I'm going to say that V two can, I don't actually >>know. Um I think all that is gonna, I think that's going to consolidate in the future. All right. In terms of like the common feature set, what Iver and john what do you think? >>I mean, I think it's already begun, right, I think haven't, didn't they collaborate on a common engine? I don't know whether it's finished yet, but I think they're working towards a common getups engine and then they're just going to layer on features on top. But I think, I mean, I think that's interesting, right, because where it runs and where it interacts with, if we're talking about a pull based model, it shouldn't, it's decentralized to a certain extent, right? We need get and we need the agent which is pulling if we're saying there's something else which is orchestrating something that we start to like fuzzy the model even right. Like is this state living somewhere else, then I think that's just interesting as well. I thought flux was completely decentralized, but I know you install our go somewhere like the cargo has a server as well, but it's been a while since I've looked in depth at them. But I think the, you know, does that muddy the agent only pull model? >>I'm reading a >>Yeah, I would say that there's like a process of natural selection going on as as the C. N. C. F. Landscape evolves and grows bigger and a lot of divide and conquer right now. But I think as certain things kind of get more prominent >>and popular, I think >>it starts to trend and it inspires other things and then it starts to aggregate and you know, kind of get back into like a unified kind of like core. Maybe like for instance, cross plane, I feel like it shouldn't even really exist. It should be, it like it's a communities add on, but it should be built in, it should be built into kubernetes, like why doesn't this exist already >>for like controlling a cloud? >>Yeah, like just, you know, having this interface with the cloud provider and be able to Yeah, >>exactly. Yeah, and it kinda, you're right. That kinda happens because you do, I mean when you start talking about storage providers and networking providers was very specific implementations of operators or just individual controllers that do operate and control other resources in the cloud, but certainly not universally right. Not every feature of AWS is available to kubernetes out of the box. Um and you know, it, one of the challenges across plane is you gotta have kubernetes before you can deploy kubernetes. Like there's a chicken and egg issue there where if you're going to use, if you're going to use our cross plane for your other infrastructure, but it's gotta, but it has to run on kubernetes who creates that first kubernetes in order for you to put that on there. And victor talks about one of his videos, the same problem with flux and Argo where like Argo, you can't deploy Argo itself with getups. There has to be that initial, I did a thing with, I'm a human and I typed in some commands on a server and things happened but they don't really have an easy deployment method for getting our go up and running using simply nothing but a get push to an existing system. There's something like that. So it's a it's an interesting problem of day one infrastructure which is again only day one, I think data is way more interesting and hard, but um how can we spend these things up if they're all depending on each other and who is the first one to get started? >>I mean it's true of everything though, I mean at the end of that you need some kind of big bang kind of function too, you know, I started running start everything I >>think without going over that, sorry, without going off on a tangent. I was, I was gonna say there's a, if folks have heard of kind which is kubernetes and Docker, which is a mini kubernetes cluster, you can run in a Docker container or each container will run as a as a node. Um you know, that's been a really good way to spin up things like clusters. KPI because they boot strap a local kind, install the manifests, it will go and spin up a fully sized cluster, it will transfer its resources over there and then it will die itself. Right? So that, that's kind of bootstrapping itself. And I think a couple of folks in the community, Jason to Tiberius, I think he works for Quinyx metal um has, has experimented with like an even more minimal just Api server, so we're really just leveraging the kubernetes ideas of like a reconciliation loop and a controller. We just need something to bootstrap with those C R D s and get something going and then go away again. So I think that's gonna be a pattern that comes up kind of more and more >>Yeah, for sure. Um, and uh, the next, next quick answer to the question, Angel asked what your thoughts on getups being a niche to get or versus others vcs tools? Well, if I knew anyone who is using anything other than get, I would say no, you know, get ops is a horrible name. It should just be CVS office, but that doesn't or vcs ops or whatever like that, but that doesn't roll off the tongue. So someone had to come up with the get ups phrase. Um but absolutely, it's all about version control solutions used for infrastructure, not code. Um might get doctor asks a great question, we're not gonna have time for it, but maybe people can reply and chat with what they think but about infrastructure and code, the lines being blurred and that do develop, how much of infrastructure does developer do developers need to know? Essentially, they're having to know all the things. Um so unfortunately we've had way more questions like every panel here today with all the great community, we've got way more questions we can handle in this time. So we're gonna have to wrap it up and say goodbye. Go to the next live panel. I believe the next one is um on developer, developer specific setups that's gonna be peter running that panel. Something about development in containers and I'm sure it's gonna be great. Just like this one. So let's go around the room where can people find you on the internet? I'm at Brett fisher on twitter. That's where you can usually find me most days you are? >>Yeah, I'm on twitter to um, I'll put it in the chat. It's kind of confusing because the TSR seven. >>Okay. Yeah, that's right. You can't just say it. You can also look at the blow of the video and like our faces are there and if you click on them, it tells you our twitter in Arlington and stuff, john >>John Harris 85, pretty much everywhere. Get hub Twitter slack, etc. >>Yeah >>and normal, normal faults or just, you know, living on Youtube live with Brett. >>Yeah, we're all on the twitter so go check us out there and thank you so much for joining. Uh thank you so much to you all for being here. I really appreciate you taking time in your busy schedule to join me for a little chit chat. Um Yes, all the, all the cheers, yes. >>And I think this kid apps loop has been declarative lee reconciled. >>Yeah, there we go. And with that ladies and gentlemen, uh bid you would do, we will see you in the next, next round coming up next with Peter >>bye.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban Cloud brought to you by Silicon Angle. Welcome back to the live segment of the Cuban cloud. I'm Dave, along with my co host, John Ferrier. John Rose is here. He's the global C T o Dell Technologies. John, great to see you as always, Really appreciate >>it. Absolutely good to know. >>Hey, so we're gonna talk edge, you know, the the edge, it's it's estimated. It's a multi multi trillion dollar opportunity, but it's a highly fragmented, very complex. I mean, it comprises from autonomous vehicles and windmills, even retail stores outer space. And it's so it brings in a lot of really gnarly technical issues that we want to pick your brain on. Let me start with just what to you is edge. How do you think about >>it? Yeah, I think I mean, I've been saying for a while that edges the when you reconstitute Ike back out in the real world. You know, for 10 years we've been sucking it out of the real world, taking it out of factories, you know, nobody has an email server under their desk anymore. On that was because we could put it in data centers and cloud public clouds, and you know that that's been a a good journey. And then we realized, Wait a minute, all the data actually was being created out in the real world. And a lot of the actions that have to come from that data have to happen in real time in the real world. And so we realized we actually had toe reconstitute a nightie capacity out near where the data is created, consumed and utilized. And, you know, that turns out to be smart cities, smart factories. You know, uh, we're dealing with military apparatus. What you're saying, how do you put, you know, edges in tow, warfighting theaters or first responder environments? It's really anywhere that data exists that needs to be processed and understood and acted on. That isn't in a data center. So it's kind of one of these things. Defining edge is easier to find. What it isn't. It's anywhere that you're going to have. I t capacity that isn't aggregated into a public or private cloud data center. That seems to be the answer. So >>follow. Follow that. Follow the data. And so you've got these big issue, of course, is late and see people saying, Well, some applications or some use cases like autonomous vehicles. You have to make the decision locally. Others you can you can send back. And you, Kamal, is there some kind of magic algorithm the technical people used to figure out? You know what, the right approaches? Yeah, >>the good news is math still works and way spent a lot of time thinking about why you build on edge. You know, not all things belong at the edge. Let's just get that out of the way. And so we started thinking about what does belong at the edge, and it turns out there's four things you need. You know, if you have a real time responsiveness in the full closed loop of processing data, you might want to put it in an edge. But then you have to define real time, and real time varies. You know, real time might be one millisecond. It might be 30 milliseconds. It might be 50 milliseconds. It turns out that it's 50 milliseconds. You probably could do that in a co located data center pretty far away from those devices. One millisecond you better be doing it on the device itself. And so so the Leighton see around real time processing matters. And, you know, the other reasons interesting enough to do edge actually don't have to do with real time crossing they have to do with. There's so much data being created at the edge that if you just blow it all the way across the Internet, you'll overwhelm the Internets. We have need toe pre process and post process data and control the flow across the world. The third one is the I T. O T boundary that we all know. That was the I O t. Thing that we were dealing with for a long time. And the fourth, which is the fascinating one, is it's actually a place where you might want to inject your security boundaries, because security tends to be a huge problem and connected things because they're kind of dumb and kind of simple and kind of exposed. And if you protect them on the other end of the Internet, the surface area of protecting is enormous, so there's a big shift basically move security functions to the average. I think Gardner made up a term for called Sassy. You know, it's a pretty enabled edge, but these are the four big ones. We've actually tested that for probably about a year with customers. And it turns out that, you know, seems to hold If it's one of those four things you might want to think about an edge of it isn't it probably doesn't belong in >>it. John. I want to get your thoughts on that point. The security things huge. We talked about that last time at Del Tech World when we did an interview with the Cube. But now look at what's happened. Over the past few months, we've been having a lot of investigative reporting here at Silicon angle on the notion of misinformation, not just fake news. Everyone talks about that with the election, but misinformation as a vulnerability because you have now edge devices that need to be secured. But I can send misinformation to devices. So, you know, faking news could be fake data say, Hey, Tesla, drive off the road or, you know, do this on the other thing. So you gotta have the vulnerabilities looked at and it could be everything. Data is one of them. Leighton. See secure. Is there a chip on the device? Could you share your vision on how you see that being handled? Cause it's a huge >>problem. Yeah, this is this is a big deal because, you know, what you're describing is the fact that if data is everything, the flow of data ultimately turns into the flow of information that knowledge and wisdom and action. And if you pollute the data, if you could compromise it the most rudimentary levels by I don't know, putting bad data into a sensor or tricking the sensor which lots of people can dio or simulating a sensor, you can actually distort things like a I algorithms. You can introduce bias into them and then that's a That's a real problem. The solution to it isn't making the sensors smarter. There's this weird Catch 22 when you sense arise the world, you know you have ah, you know, finite amount of power and budget and the making sensors fatter and more complex is actually the wrong direction. So edges have materialized from that security dimension is an interesting augment to those connected things. And so imagine a world where you know your sensor is creating data and maybe have hundreds or thousands of sensors that air flowing into an edge compute layer and the edge compute layer isn't just aggregating it. It's putting context on it. It's metadata that it's adding to the system saying, Hey, that particular stream of telemetry came from this device, and I'm watching that device and Aiken score it and understand whether it's been compromised or whether it's trustworthy or whether it's a risky device and is that all flows into the metadata world the the overall understanding of not just the data itself, but where did it come from? Is it likely to be trustworthy? Should you score it higher or lower in your neural net to basically manipulate your algorithm? These kind of things were really sophisticated and powerful tools to protect against this kind of injection of false information at the sensor, but you could never do that at a sensor. You have to do it in a place that has more compute capacity and is more able to kind of enriched the data and enhance it. So that's why we think edges are important in that fourth characteristic of they aren't the security system of the sensor itself. But they're the way to make sure that there's integrity in the sense arised world before it reaches the Internet before it reaches the cloud data centers. >>So access to that metadata is access to the metadata is critical, and it's gonna be it's gonna be near real time, if not real time, right? >>Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the important thing is, Well, I'll tell you this. You know, if you haven't figured this out by looking at cybersecurity issues, you know, compromising from the authoritative metadata is a really good compromise. If you could get that, you can manipulate things that a scale you've never imagined. Well, in this case, if the metadata is actually authoritatively controlled by the edge note the edge note is processing is determining whether or not this is trustworthy or not. Those edge nodes are not $5 parts, their servers, their higher end systems. And you can inject a lot more sophisticated security technology and you can have hardware root of trust. You can have, you know, mawr advanced. PK I in it, you can have a I engines watching the behavior of it, and again, you'd never do that in a sensor. But if you do it at the first step into the overall data pipeline, which is really where the edges materializing, you can do much more sophisticated things to the data. But you can also protect that thing at a level that you'd never be able to do to protect a smart lightbulb. A thermostat in your house? >>Uh, yes. So give us the playbook on how you see the evolution of the this mark. I'll see these air key foundational things, a distributed network and it's a you know I o t trends into industrial i o t vice versa. As a software becomes critical, what is the programming model to build the modern applications is something that I know. You guys talk to Michael Dell about this in the Cuban, everyone, your companies as well as everyone else. Its software define everything these days, right? So what is the software framework? How did people code on this? What's the application aware viewpoint on this? >>Yeah, this is, uh, that's unfortunately it's a very complex area that's got a lot of dimensions to it. Let me let me walk you through a couple of them in terms of what is the software framework for for For the edge. The first is that we have to separate edge platforms from the actual edge workload today too many of the edge dialogues or this amorphous blob of code running on an appliance. We call that an edge, and the reality is that thing is actually doing two things. It's, ah, platform of compute out in the real world and it's some kind of extension of the cloud data pipeline of the cloud Operating model. Instance, he added, A software probably is containerized code sitting on that edge platform. Our first principle about the software world is we have to separate those two things. You do not build your cloud your edge platform co mingled with the thing that runs on it. That's like building your app into the OS. That's just dumb user space. Colonel, you keep those two things separate. We have Thio start to enforce that discipline in the software model at the edges. The first principle, the second is we have to recognize that the edges are are probably best implemented in ways that don't require a lot of human intervention. You know, humans air bad when it comes to really complex distributed systems. And so what we're finding is that most of the code being pushed into production benefits from using things like kubernetes or container orchestration or even functional frameworks like, you know, the server list fast type models because those low code architectures generally our interface with via AP, eyes through CCD pipelines without a lot of human touch on it. And it turns out that, you know, those actually worked reasonably well because the edges, when you look at them in production, the code actually doesn't change very often, they kind of do singular things relatively well over a period of time. And if you can make that a fully automated function by basically taking all of the human intervention away from it, and if you can program it through low code interfaces or through automated interfaces, you take a lot of the risk out of the human intervention piece of this type environment. We all know that you know most of the errors and conditions that break things are not because the technology fails it because it's because of human being touches it. So in the software paradigm, we're big fans of more modern software paradigms that have a lot less touch from human beings and a lot more automation being applied to the edge. The last thing I'll leave you with, though, is we do have a problem with some of the edge software architectures today because what happened early in the i o t world is people invented kind of new edge software platforms. And we were involved in these, you know, edge X foundry, mobile edge acts, a crane. Oh, and those were very important because they gave you a set of functions and capabilities of the edge that you kind of needed in the early days. Our long term vision, though for edge software, is that it really needs to be the same code base that we're using in data centers and public clouds. It needs to be the same cloud stack the same orchestration level, the same automation level, because what you're really doing at the edge is not something that spoke. You're taking a piece of your data pipeline and you're pushing it to the edge and the other pieces are living in private data centers and public clouds, and you like they all operate under the same framework. So we're big believers in, like pushing kubernetes orchestration all the way to the edge, pushing the same fast layer all the way to the edge. And don't create a bespoke world of the edge making an extension of the multi cloud software framework >>even though the underlying the underlying hardware might change the microprocessor, GPU might change GP or whatever it is. Uh, >>by the way, that that's a really good reason to use these modern framework because the energies compute where it's not always next 86 underneath it, programming down at the OS level and traditional languages has an awful lot of hardware dependencies. We need to separate that because we're gonna have a lot of arm. We're gonna have a lot of accelerators a lot of deep. Use a lot of other stuff out there. And so the software has to be modern and able to support header genius computer, which a lot of these new frameworks do quite well, John. >>Thanks. Thanks so much for for coming on, Really? Spending some time with us and you always a great guest to really appreciate it. >>Going to be a great stuff >>of a technical edge. Ongoing room. Dave, this is gonna be a great topic. It's a clubhouse room for us. Well, technical edge section every time. Really. Thanks >>again, Jon. Jon Rose. Okay, so now we're gonna We're gonna move to the second part of our of our technical edge discussion. Chris Wolf is here. He leads the advanced architecture group at VM Ware. And that really means So Chris's looks >>at I >>think it's three years out is kind of his time. Arise. And so, you know, advanced architecture, Er and yeah. So really excited to have you here. Chris, can you hear us? >>Okay. Uh, >>can Great. Right. Great to see you again. >>Great >>to see you. Thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. >>So >>we're talking about the edge you're talking about the things that you see way set it up is a multi trillion dollar opportunity. It's It's defined all over the place. Uh, Joey joke. It's Could be a windmill. You know, it could be a retail store. It could be something in outer space. Its's It's it's, you know, whatever is defined A factory, a military installation, etcetera. How do you look at the edge. And And how do you think about the technical evolution? >>Yeah, I think it is. It was interesting listening to John, and I would say we're very well aligned there. You know, we also would see the edge is really the place where data is created, processed and are consumed. And I think what's interesting here is that you have a number off challenges in that edges are different. So, like John was talking about kubernetes. And there's there's multiple different kubernetes open source projects that are trying to address thes different edge use cases, whether it's K three s or Cubbage or open your it or super edge. And I mean the list goes on and on, and the reason that you see this conflict of projects is multiple reasons. You have a platform that's not really designed to supported computing, which kubernetes is designed for data center infrastructure. Uh, first on then you have these different environments where you have some edge sites that have connectivity to the cloud, and you have some websites that just simply don't write whether it's an oil rig or a cruise ship. You have all these different use cases, so What we're seeing is you can't just say this is our edge platform and, you know, go consume it because it won't work. You actually have to have multiple flavors of your edge platform and decide. You know what? You should time first. From a market perspective, I >>was gonna ask you great to have you on. We've had many chest on the Cube during when we actually would go to events and be on the credit. But we appreciate you coming into our virtual editorial event will be doing more of these things is our software will be put in the work to do kind of a clubhouse model. We get these talks going and make them really valuable. But this one is important because one of the things that's come up all day and we kind of introduced earlier to come back every time is the standardization openness of how open source is going to extend out this this interoperability kind of vibe. And then the second theme is and we were kind of like the U S side stack come throwback to the old days. Uh, talk about Cooper days is that next layer, but then also what is going to be the programming model for modern applications? Okay, with the edge being obviously a key part of it. What's your take on that vision? Because that's a complex area certain a lot of a lot of software to be written, still to come, some stuff that need to be written today as well. So what's your view on How do you programs on the edge? >>Yeah, it's a It's a great question, John and I would say, with Cove it We have seen some examples of organizations that have been successful when they had already built an edge for the expectation of change. So when you have a truly software to find edge, you can make some of these rapid pivots quite quickly, you know. Example was Vanderbilt University had to put 1000 hospital beds in a parking garage, and they needed dynamic network and security to be able to accommodate that. You know, we had a lab testing company that had to roll out 400 testing sites in a matter of weeks. So when you can start tohave first and foremost, think about the edge as being our edge. Agility is being defined as you know, what is the speed of software? How quickly can I push updates? How quickly can I transform my application posture or my security posture in lieu of these types of events is super important. Now, if then if we walk that back, you know, to your point on open source, you know, we see open source is really, uh you know, the key enabler for driving edge innovation and driving in I S V ecosystem around that edge Innovation. You know, we mentioned kubernetes, but there's other really important projects that we're already seeing strong traction in the edge. You know, projects such as edge X foundry is seeing significant growth in China. That is, the core ejects foundry was about giving you ah, pass for some of your I o T aps and services. Another one that's quite interesting is the open source faith project in the Linux Foundation. And fate is really addressing a melody edge through a Federated M L model, which we think is the going to be the long term dominant model for localized machine learning training as we continue to see massive scale out to these edge sites, >>right? So I wonder if you could You could pick up on that. I mean, in in thinking about ai influencing at the edge. Um, how do you see that? That evolving? Uh, maybe You know what, Z? Maybe you could We could double click on the architecture that you guys see. Uh, progressing. >>Yeah, Yeah. Right now we're doing some really good work. A zai mentioned with the Fate project. We're one of the key contributors to the project. Today. We see that you need to expand the breath of contributors to these types of projects. For starters, uh, some of these, what we've seen is sometimes the early momentum starts in China because there is a lot of innovation associated with the edge there, and now it starts to be pulled a bit further West. So when you look at Federated Learning, we do believe that the emergence of five g I's not doesn't really help you to centralized data. It really creates the more opportunity to create, put more data and more places. So that's, you know, that's the first challenge that you have. But then when you look at Federated learning in general, I'd say there's two challenges that we still have to overcome organizations that have very sophisticated data. Science practices are really well versed here, and I'd say they're at the forefront of some of these innovations. But that's 1% of enterprises today. We have to start looking at about solutions for the 99% of enterprises. And I'd say even VM Ware partners such as Microsoft Azure Cognitive Services as an example. They've been addressing ML for the 99%. I say That's a That's a positive development. When you look in the open source community, it's one thing to build a platform, right? Look, we love to talk about platforms. That's the easy part. But it's the APS that run on that platform in the services that run on that platform that drive adoption. So the work that we're incubating in the VM, or CTO office is not just about building platforms, but it's about building the applications that are needed by say that 99% of enterprises to drive that adoption. >>So if you if you carry that through that, I infer from that Chris that the developers are ultimately gonna kind of win the edge or define the edge Um, How do you see that From their >>perspective? Yeah, >>I think its way. I like to look at this. I like to call a pragmatic Dev ops where the winning formula is actually giving the developer the core services that they need using the native tools and the native AP eyes that they prefer and that is predominantly open source. It would some cloud services as they start to come to the edge as well. But then, beyond that, there's no reason that I t operations can't have the tools that they prefer to use. A swell. So we see this coming together of two worlds where I t operations has to think even for differently about edge computing, where it's not enough to assume that I t has full control of all of these different devices and sensors and things that exists at the edge. It doesn't happen. Often times it's the lines of business that air directly. Deploying these types of infrastructure solutions or application services is a better phrase and connecting them to the networks at the edge. So what does this mean From a nightie operations perspective? We need tohave, dynamic discovery capabilities and more policy and automation that can allow the developers to have the velocity they want but still have that consistency of security, agility, networking and all of the other hard stuff that somebody has to solve. And you can have the best of both worlds here. >>So if Amazon turned the data center into an A P I and then the traditional, you know, vendors sort of caught up or catching up and trying to do in the same premise is the edge one big happy I Is it coming from the cloud? Is it coming from the on Prem World? How do you see that evolving? >>Yes, that's the question and races on. Yeah, but it doesn't. It doesn't have to be exclusive in one way or another. The VM Ware perspective is that, you know, we can have a consistent platform for open source, a consistent platform for cloud services. And I think the key here is this. If you look at the partnerships we've been driving, you know, we've on boarded Amazon rds onto our platform. We announced the tech preview of Azure Arc sequel database as a service on our platform as well. In addition, toe everything we're doing with open source. So the way that we're looking at this is you don't wanna make a bet on an edge appliance with one cloud provider. Because what happens if you have a business partner that says I am a line to Google or on the line to AWS? So I want to use this open source. Our philosophy is to virtualized the edge so that software can dictate, you know, organizations velocity at the end of the day. >>Yeah. So, Chris, you come on, you're you're an analyst at Gartner. You know us. Everything is a zero sum game, but it's but But life is not like that, right? I mean, there's so much of an incremental opportunity, especially at the edge. I mean, the numbers are mind boggling when when you look at it, >>I I agree wholeheartedly. And I think you're seeing a maturity in the vendor landscape to where we know we can't solve all the problems ourselves and nobody can. So we have to partner, and we have to to your earlier point on a P. I s. We have to build external interfaces in tow, our platforms to make it very easy for customers have choice around ice vendors, partners and so on. >>So, Chris, I gotta ask you since you run the advanced technology group in charge of what's going on there, will there be a ship and focus on mawr ships at the edge with that girl singer going over to intel? Um, good to see Oh, shit, so to speak. Um, all kidding aside, but, you know, patch leaving big news around bm where I saw some of your tweets and you laid out there was a nice tribute, pat, but that's gonna be cool. That's gonna be a didn't tell. Maybe it's more more advanced stuff there. >>Yeah, I think >>for people pats staying on the VMRO board and to me it's it's really think about it. I mean, Pat was part of the team that brought us the X 86 right and to come back to Intel as the CEO. It's really the perfect book end to his career. So we're really sad to see him go. Can't blame him. Of course it's it's a It's a nice chapter for Pat, so totally understand that. And we prior to pack going to Intel, we announced major partnerships within video last year, where we've been doing a lot of work with >>arm. So >>thio us again. We see all of this is opportunity, and a lot of the advanced development projects were running right now in the CTO office is about expanding that ecosystem in terms of how vendors can participate, whether you're running an application on arm, whether it's running on X 86 or whatever, it's running on what comes next, including a variety of hardware accelerators. >>So is it really? Is that really irrelevant to you? I mean, you heard John Rose talk about that because it's all containerized is it is. It is a technologies. Is it truly irrelevant? What processor is underneath? And what underlying hardware architectures there are? >>No, it's not. You know it's funny, right? Because we always want to say these things like, Well, it's just a commodity, but it's not. You didn't then be asking the hardware vendors Thio pack up their balls and go home because there's just nothing nothing left to do, and we're seeing actually quite the opposite where there's this emergence and variety of so many hardware accelerators. So even from an innovation perspective, for us. We're looking at ways to increase the velocity by which organizations can take advantage of these different specialized hardware components, because that's that's going to continue to be a race. But the real key is to make it seamless that an application could take advantage of these benefits without having to go out and buy all of this different hardware on a per application basis. >>But if you do make bets, you can optimize for that architecture, true or not, I mean, our estimate is that the you know the number of wafer is coming out of arm based, you know, platforms is 10 x x 86. And so it appears that, you know, from a cost standpoint, that's that's got some real hard decisions to make. Or maybe maybe they're easy decisions, I don't know. But so you have to make bets, Do you not as a technologist and try to optimize for one of those architectures, even though you have to hedge those bets? >>Yeah, >>we do. It really boils down to use cases and seeing, you know, what do you need for a particular use case like, you know, you mentioned arm, you know, There's a lot of arm out at the edge and on smaller form factor devices. Not so much in the traditional enterprise data center today. So our bets and a lot of the focus there has been on those types of devices. And again, it's it's really the It's about timing, right? The customer demand versus when we need to make a particular move from an innovation >>perspective. It's my final question for you as we wrap up our day here with Great Cuban Cloud Day. What is the most important stories in in the cloud tech world, edge and or cloud? And you think people should be paying attention to that will matter most of them over the next few years. >>Wow, that's a huge question. How much time do we have? Not not enough. A >>architect. Architectural things. They gotta focus on a lot of people looking at this cove it saying I got to come out with a growth strategy obvious and clear, obvious things to see Cloud >>Yeah, yeah, let me let me break it down this way. I think the most important thing that people have to focus on >>is deciding How >>do they when they build architectures. What does the reliance on cloud services Native Cloud Services so far more proprietary services versus open source technologies such as kubernetes and the SV ecosystem around kubernetes. You know, one is an investment in flexibility and control, lots of management and for your intellectual property, right where Maybe I'm building this application in the cloud today. But tomorrow I have to run it out at the edge. Or I do an acquisition that I just wasn't expecting, or I just simply don't know. Sure way. Sure hope that cova doesn't come around again or something like it, right as we get past this and navigate this today. But architect ng for the expectation of change is really important and having flexibility of round your intellectual property, including flexibility to be able to deploy and run on different clouds, especially as you build up your different partnerships. That's really key. So building a discipline to say you know what >>this is >>database as a service, it's never going to define who I am is a business. It's something I have to do is an I T organization. I'm consuming that from the cloud This part of the application sacked that defines who I am is a business. My active team is building this with kubernetes. And I'm gonna maintain more flexibility around that intellectual property. The strategic discipline to operate this way among many of >>enterprise customers >>just hasn't gotten there yet. But I think that's going to be a key inflection point as we start to see. You know, these hybrid architectures continue to mature. >>Hey, Chris. Great stuff, man. Really appreciate you coming on the cube and participate in the Cuban cloud. Thank you for your perspectives. >>Great. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure >>to see you. >>Thank you, everybody for watching this ends the Cuban Cloud Day. Volonte and John Furry. All these sessions gonna be available on demand. All the write ups will hit silicon angle calm. So check that out. We'll have links to this site up there and really appreciate you know, you attending our our first virtual editorial >>event again? >>There's day Volonte for John Ferrier in the entire Cube and Cuba and Cloud Team >>Q 3 65. Thanks >>for watching. Mhm

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by Silicon angle. Hello. We wanna welcome back to the Cuban cloud where we're talking to CEOs, C. E. O s, chief technology officers and investors. On the future of Cloud with me is Dave Humphrey, who is the managing director and co head of Private Equity North America at Bain Capital. They've welcome to the Cube. First time, I think. >>First time. Yeah, David, thanks very much for having so >>let's get right into it. As an investor, how are you thinking about the evolution of cloud? When you look back at the last decade, you know it's not gonna be the same, uh, in this coming decade, you know, Thio ironic 2020 is has thrown us into, you know, the accelerated digital transformation and cloud. But how do you look at the evolution of cloud from an investment perspective? What's your thesis? >>That's a great question, David. You know, for us, we're focused on investing in technology and really across the economy. And I'd say the cloud is the overarching trends and dynamic in the technology markets. And really, for two reasons, one is a major shift. Of course, that's going on. But the second and frankly, even more interesting one to us is all the growth that the cloud is creating in the technology marketplace. You know the ship. It has been well covered. But five years ago in 2015, by our analysis, two thirds of all computing workloads were done on premises and Onley. Five years later, that's that's flipped. So two thirds of all computing workloads now done done in the cloud. And, of course, that shift. There's a lot of ramifications as an investor. But even more interesting dust is the growth in technology and the usage of technology that the cloud is creating. So over that same period of time, the total number of computing workloads run has increased by 2.6 times just a five year period time, which is really a a dramatic thing. And it makes sense when you think about all the new software applications that could be created, all the data that could be used by new users and new segments, and the real time inside that could be gleaned from that is that growth that really were focused on investing behind a Z. Investors in technology. You >>know, it's interesting you just took share those numbers and you hear a lot of numbers. I I actually think you you know, you your even being conservative. You know, Ginny Rometty used to talk about 80% of workloads or are still on Prem. Andy Jassy it reinvent said that 96% of spending is still on premises. So that was kind of an interesting stat. And I guess the other thing that I would, I would note is it's not just a share shift. It is. It's not just, you know, the cloud eating away it on Prem. We've clearly seen that, but there's also incremental opportunity as well. If you look at snowflake, for example, and adding value on top of, you know across multiple clouds and creating new markets, so there's there's that, you know, double that 12 punch of stealing share from on Prem but also incremental growth, which is probably accelerated as a result of this, you know, compressed digital transformation. So when you look at the Big Three cloud players, I mean roughly speaking, they probably account for $80 billion in total revenue which I guess is a small portion of the overall I t. Market. So it has a a long way to go. But But what's the best way to get good returns from an investment standpoint without getting clobbered by their tendency to sometimes coop some of the best ideas and put them on their primary services? >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, for us, uh, it really comes back to the same fundamental principles we look for in any investment, which is finding a business that solves a really important problem for its customers and does so in a way that's really advantaged vs competition can and do something that other competitors just can't do, whether those be the hyper scale is that you're describing or, you know, other specialized and focused competitors, and then finding a way that we can partner with those companies to help them to accelerate their growth. So surely the growth of the likes of AWS and Microsoft and Google, as you're describing, has been a profound competitive shift, along with the cloud shift that we've all talked about. And those companies, of course, can offer and do things that you past purveyors of computing couldn't. But fundamentally, they're selling and infrastructure layer, and there is room for all sorts of new competitors and new applications that can do something better than anybody else can. So any company that we're looking at, we're asking ourselves the question. Why are they the best ones to do what they're doing? How could they solve the most problem for their customers and do that in a way that's that's Brazilian and we see lots of those opportunities, >>and I wanna I wanna pick your brain about the Nutanix investment. But before we get there, I wonder if you could just talk about Bain Capital in their their history of investment in both cloud and infrastructure software and and how do those investments? How would they performed? And how do they inform your current thesis? >>Yeah, absolutely. So being Capital was started in in the mid eighties, 1984 actually has a spin out of being a company consulting, and the basic premise was that if we're good at advising and supporting businesses, we should partner with them and invest behind them, and if they do well, we'll do well. And, as I said, focusing on these businesses but do something really valuable for their customers in a riel advantaged way, with some discontinuous growth opportunity that's led us to grow a lot. You know, we started out actually in the venture business and grew into the private equity business. But now we invest across all life stages of companies and all over the world. So we're $105 billion in assets that we managed across 10 lines of business on were truly global. So I think we have about 470 investment professionals and 210 of those at this point are located outside the U. S. One of the really interesting things for us in investing in technology broadly and in infrastructure in the cloud more specifically is that we're able to do that all over the world. And we're able to do that across all the different life stages of companies. We have a thriving venture capital business that really we've been in since the origins of being capital has invested across countless cloud and security and infrastructure businesses taken successful companies public like like solar wind sold companies to strategic and grown businesses. You know, in really thriving ways we have a, um, growth mid market growth technology business that we launched last year. Called their Technology Opportunities Fund. They've made a really interesting cloud based investment in a company called the Cloud Gurus Cloud Guru Excuse me? That trains the next generation of I t professionals to be successful in the club on then, of course, in our private equity business, you know where I spend my time. We are highly focused on technology sector and the the impacts of the cloud in that sector. Broadly, we've invested in many infrastructure businesses, scale businesses like BMC software and Rockets software security businesses like blue coat systems and semantic. And of course, for those big businesses they've got both on premises solutions. They've got cloud solutions, and often we're focused on helping them continue to grow and innovate and take their solutions to the cloud. And then, uh, that's taking us to our most recent investment in Nutanix that we're very excited about it. We think it's truly a growth business in a large market that has an opportunity to capitalize on these trends we're talking about. >>I wonder if you could comment on some of the changes that have occurred. You guys have been in the private equity business for a long time. And if you look at what you know, kind of the early days of private equity, it was all you know, even, uh, suck as much cash out of the company is possible. You know, whatever's left over will figure out what to do with it. It it seems like you know, investors have realized Wow, we can actually, if we put a little investment in and do some engineering and some go to market, we can actually get better multiples. And so you've got the kind of rule of 30 35 40 where he made a plus. Growth is kind of the metric. How do you think about that? And look at that evolution. >>Yeah, you know, it's interesting because in many ways, being capital was started as the antithesis to what to what you're describing. So we started again, as as with a strategic lens and a focus on growth and a focus on if we got the long term and the lasting impact of our business is right, that the returns would would follow. And you're right that the market has evolved in that way. I mean, I think some of the some of the dynamics that we've seen has been certainly growth of the private equity business. It's It's become a much larger piece of the, you know, the capital markets than it was certainly 10 years ago in 20 years ago. Also, with that growth comes the globalization, that business all over the world and the specialization. So you certainly see technology focused firms and technology focused funds in a way that you didn't see, uh, 10 years ago, or certainly 20 years ago actually being capital. Interestingly enough, we had a technology focused fund in 1989 called called Being Information Partners. So we've been focused on the sector for a very long time. But you certainly see ah, lot more technology investors, uh, than than you did you know 10 or 20 years ago? >>How are you thinking about valuations? Thes days? I mean, that is good. It's good to be in tech. It's even better to be in the cloud. You know, Service officer, software Cloud. You know if if if you're looking at, you know some of the companies, especially the work from home pivot. But a lot of that appears to be. You know, many people believe it's going to be permanent. How are you feeling about the both public market and private market valuations in that dynamic? >>Yeah, well, you know, it's it's amazing, right? I don't think any of us in March, when the covert crisis was just emerging, would have anticipated that that come November, the markets, and certainly the technology markets would be even more robust and stronger than than they were say in January February. But I think it's a testament to the resilience of the technology on that just how intricate and intertwined technology has become with our daily lives and and how much companies depend on its use. And frankly, it's been the cove environments that an accelerant for many of the ways in which we depend on technology. So witnessed this interview, of course, through through the through the cloud, and you're seeing the way that we operate our business day to day the way cos they're accessing their data and information. It's only further accelerated the need for technology and the importance of that technology to how how businesses operate. So I think you're seeing that reflected in the market values out there. But, you know, frost work. We're focused on businesses that still have that catalytic opportunity ahead that can more than compensate for for the price of entry. >>So let's talk about this massive investment. You guys made a Nutanix 750 million, I guess, is a small piece of your 105 billion, but still a massive investment. How did that opportunity come to you? What was your thinking? You know, behind that that investment and what are you looking for in terms of the go forward plan and growth plan for 2021 really importantly, beyond. >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're thrilled to be partnered with and invested in Nutanix. We think is a terrific company. And, you know, our most recent technology investment and private equity business. It really came about through a proactive efforts that we had in in the spring. Um, you know, we've got a team focused on the technology sector, focused across infrastructure and applications, and, uh, internet and digital media businesses and financial technology. And, uh, you know, through those efforts, we were looking for businesses. Um, that we felt had faced some dislocation and their market values associated with the Koven environment that we're facing but that we thought were really attractive. Business is well positioned, had leading solutions and had substantial and discontinuous growth opportunities. And as we looked through that effort, we really felt that Nutanix stood out just as a core leader and in fact, really the innovator and the inventor of the market in which it competes with a substantial market share in position solving a really important problem for its customers with a big growth opportunity ahead. But, um, the stock price had had come down because the business has been undergoing ah transition, and we didn't think that that was fully understood by by the market. And so way saw an opportunity Thio partner with Nutanix to invest money into the business to help to fund its transition and its growth. Yeah, and Thio to be partners along for all the value the business will will continue to create. We think it's a terrific company, and we're excited to be to be invested >>Well, you and I have talked about this that transition, you know, from a traditional, you know, license model to one That's Anania recurring revenue model, which many companies have gone through. You know, Adobe certainly has done it. Tableau successfully did it. Splunk is kind of in the middle of that transition right now and maybe not well understood. You've got companies like like Data Dog that and snowflake again to doing consumption based pricing. So there's a lot of confusion in the marketplace, and I wonder if you could talk about that transition and why it It was attractive to you to actually, you know, place that bet now? >>Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, a number of companies at this point have been through various forms of this shift, from from selling their technology upfront to selling it over time on, we find that the model of selling the technology over time eyes one that could be powerful. It could be aligning for customers as well as for, uh, vendor of the software solutions. And in Nutanix in particular again, we saw all the ingredients that we think make this an opportunity for for the business again, market leading technology that customers love. That is solving really important problem. The technology, because Nutanix had been grown and bootstrapped under the leadership of, uh, you know of zeros when it was built and founded, had been selling its software together with an appliance, you know, often in a, um, upfront sale Andi has been undergoing under their own initiative transition from selling that software with an appliance to a software based model to one that s'more rattle over time. And, you know, we thought that there was the opportunity to continue that to continue that transition and by doing that, to be able to offer mawr growth and mawr innovation that we could bring to our customers Thio continue to fund the shift. So something that frankly was well underway before we invested. Um, you know, as a za business makes this transition from collecting upfront Thio, you know, thio more evenly. Over time, you know, we saw a potentially use for our capital to help to fund that growth. And we're just focused on being a good partner toe help the company keep investing in abating, as as it contains to do that. >>I was talking to somebody other day, David. I told him I was interviewing you, and I was mentioning the Nutanix investment. I said, I'm definitely gonna cover that as part of this. You know, Cuban Cloud program. And they said Hit Nutanix. That's not cloud. I'm like, Wait a minute, What's cloud? So we heard Andy Jassy reinvent talking a lot about hybrid Antonio Neary, right after HP made its earnings last earnings announcement he came on on, said that well, we heard the big Cloud player talk about hybrid, and so the definition is changing. But so how are you looking at the market? Uh, certainly. There's this hyper converged infrastructure, but there's also this software play. There's this cloud play. Help us squint through how you see that >>absolutely so Nutanix, as you alluded to, pioneered the market for hyper converged infrastructure for bringing computing storage networking together. Uh, you know, often in private cloud environments in a way that was really powerful for for customers. Make, of course, continue to be the leaders in that marketplace. But they've continued to innovate and invest in ways that can solve problems for customers and related problems across the hybrid cloud. So combining both the public cloud with, you know, with that private cloud and across multiple public clouds with things like clusters and lots of innovation that business is doing in partnership with the likes of, um, Amazon and Microsoft and others. And so, yeah, we think that New Chance has a powerful role to play in that hyper cloud world in a multi cloud world. And we're excited toe back on them. >>Well, I think to what maybe people don't understand is that not only is Nutanix, you know, compatible with AWS and compatible with azure and G C. P. But it's actually kind of create a nabs traction layer across those those clouds. Now there's two sides of that debate. Some some will say, Well, that that that has Leighton see issues or yes, it reduces complexity. But at the same time, it doesn't give you that fine grained access. That's kind of the A W s narrative customers, you know, want simplicity. And we're seeing, you know, the uptake across clouds. I have a multipart question for you, Dave. So obviously being very strong and strategy I'm curious is toe how how much you get involved in the operational details. I mean, obviously 750 million u got a state there, but what are the 2 to 2 or three major strategic considerations for not just even just Nutanix but cloud and software infrastructure companies. And and how much focus do you put on the operational and one of the priorities There? >>Absolutely. Well, you know, we pride ourselves in being good partners to our businesses and in helping them to grow, not just with our capital, which I think is, of course, important, but also, you know, with our sweat equity and our and our human capital in our partnership that we could do that in lots of ways is fundamentally about, um, you know, supporting our businesses, however, is needed to help them thio grow. We've been investing in the technology sector, as I described for over over 30 years. And so we've built up a set of capabilities around things like helping toe partner with the sales force of our company is helping them toe, you know, think about the you know, the ways in which they they allocate their, uh their research and development and their in their innovation raised in which they, you know, continue Thio do acquisitions toe. You know, further that pipeline, we support our businesses in lots of ways, but you know we're not engineers were not. Developers, of course, were looking for businesses that are fundamentally great. They've got great technology. They solve problems for customers in a way, you know, that we could never replicate. That's what's the amazing but a business like Nutanix and just over a 10 year period of time, it literally has customer satisfaction levels that we haven't seen from any other. Infrastructures offer company that we've had the, you know, the pleasure of diligence ing over the last several years. So what we're focused on is how can we take those great products and offerings that Nutanix has and continue to support them through the further growth and expansion in areas like, um, you know, the further salesforce investment Thio expand into these new areas like clusters that we were talking about and thinking about, you know, things that they could do toe further expand the strategic hold. Um, And so, you know, we have, ah, large team of being capital. A zai mentioned 260 investment professionals in a private equity business alone. About a third of those are just available to our companies to help support them. Uh, you know, with various initiatives and efforts after after we invest. And we'll certainly, of course, make all of those available to new taxes. Well, somebody >>was asking me the other day, You know, what's hyper converged infrastructure? How did that come about? I was explaining what, Back in the day you had. You buy some servers and some storage and you have a network and you sort of have different teams and you put applicant, You figure out all out and put the applications on top, you know, test it, make sure it all works. And then and then the guys at V. C and VM Ware and Cisco and the M. C. They got together and said, Okay, we're gonna bolt together a bunch of different components and, you know, pre tested. Here you go. Here's a Here's a skew. And then what Nutanix did was actually really transformational and saying, Okay, look, we do this through software on DSO. And now that was what, Late, late two thousands. Now we're sort of entering this new era, this next generation of cloud cross clouds. So I wonder how you think about, you know, based on what you were just talking about the whole notion of M and A versus organic. There's a lot of organic development that needs to be done. But perhaps you could you could buy in or in organically through emanate toe, actually get there faster. How do you think about that balance? >>Look, I I think that that was an articulate, by the way explanation of I think that the origins of hyper converged infrastructure. So I enjoyed that very much. But, you know, I think that with any of our businesses and with Nutanix, we're of course, looking at where we trying to get to in several years and one of the best ways to support the business to get there, you know? Of course, they'll, um you know, primarily that will be through or continued organic investment in the company and all the innovation in the product. Um, that they've been doing will the company contemplate acquisitions toe further achieve the development goals and the objectives for solving pain points for customers to get, you know, to the strategic places they're trying to get to, of course. But you know, it all is a part of the package of of What's it a good fit company and its growth object. >>I mean, with the size of your portfolio, I mean your full stack investor, I would say, Is there any part of the so called tech stack that you won't touch that you would actually, you know, not not walk, but run away from, >>uh well, you know, I wouldn't say that we're running away from, you know, anything but the questions that we're asking ourselves. Our is the technology that we're investing in durable, ISAT advantaged and does have a growing role in the world. And, you know, if if we think that those things are true are absolutely, um, thrilled toe invest behind those things. You know, if if there are things that we feel like you, that's that's not the case, um, you know, then then we would tend toe to shy away from those investments. We've certainly found opportunities and businesses that people perceived as one. But you know, we believe to be another >>Well, so let me ask you specifically about about Nutanix. I mean, clearly, they achieved escape velocity. One of the few companies actually from last decade. It was Nutanix pure, not a whole lot of others. That actually, you know, were ableto maintain independence as a as a public company. What do you see is their durability. Uh, they're they're they're in their moat. If you if you will. >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, clearly, we think that it's a very durable and very advantage business. You know, that's that's the investment. Look, we think that Nutanix has been able to offer the best hyper converged infrastructure product on the market bar None. Um, one that has got the best ease of use Eyes is the most nimble and flexible for for customers. And you just see that, you know, recently and customer feedback And also that plays across very heterogeneous architectures in a way that, you know, it's really, really powerful because of that. You know, we think that their best position to be able to leverage that technology as they have been, uh, to continue to play across both public and private hybrid cloud environments. And so we're excited toe to back them and and that journey it really starts from solving and acute customer pain point, you know, better than anybody else can. And, you know, we're looking to to back them toe continue to expand that vision. >>Yeah, well, I've talked to a lot of Nutanix customers over the years, and that is the fundamental value. Proposition is it's really simple, very high, you know, customer satisfaction. So that makes a lot of sense. Well, Dave, thanks very much for coming on the Cube and participating in the Cuban cloud. Really? Appreciate your perspectives. Wish you best of luck. And hopefully we could do this again in the future. Maybe face to face >>now, face to face, maybe something even know. Dave, I really appreciate it's been a pleasure and good luck with with the rest of your interviews. >>All right. Thank you. We keep it right. Everybody from or Cuban Cloud, this is Dave Volonte. We'll be right back.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle, everybody to Cuban cloud. My name is Dave Volonte, and I'll be here throughout the day with my co host, John Ferrier, who was quarantined in an undisclosed location in California. He's all good. Don't worry. Just precautionary. John, how are you doing? >>Hey, great to see you. John. Quarantine. My youngest daughter had covitz, so contact tracing. I was negative in quarantine at a friend's location. All good. >>Well, we wish you the best. Yeah, well, right. I mean, you know what's it like, John? I mean, you're away from your family. Your basically shut in, right? I mean, you go out for a walk, but you're really not in any contact with anybody. >>Correct? Yeah. I mean, basically just isolation, Um, pretty much what everyone's been kind of living on, kind of suffering through, but hopefully the vaccines are being distributed. You know, one of the things we talked about it reinvent the Amazon's cloud conference. Was the vaccine on, but just the whole workflow around that it's gonna get better. It's kind of really sucky. Here in the California area, they haven't done a good job, a lot of criticism around, how that's rolling out. And, you know, Amazon is now offering to help now that there's a new regime in the U. S. Government S o. You know, something to talk about, But certainly this has been a terrible time for Cove it and everyone in the deaths involved. But it's it's essentially pulled back the covers, if you will, on technology and you're seeing everything. Society. In fact, um, well, that's big tech MIT disinformation campaigns. All these vulnerabilities and cyber, um, accelerated digital transformation. We'll talk about a lot today, but yeah, it's totally changed the world. And I think we're in a new generation. I think this is a real inflection point, Dave. You know, modern society and the geo political impact of this is significant. You know, one of the benefits of being quarantined you'd be hanging out on these clubhouse APS, uh, late at night, listening to experts talk about what's going on, and it's interesting what's happening with with things like water and, you know, the island of Taiwan and China and U. S. Sovereignty, data, sovereignty, misinformation. So much going on to talk about. And, uh, meanwhile, companies like Mark injuries in BC firm starting a media company. What's going on? Hell freezing over. So >>we're gonna be talking about a lot of that stuff today. I mean, Cuba on cloud. It's our very first virtual editorial event we're trying to do is bring together our community. It's a it's an open forum and we're we're running the day on our 3 65 software platform. So we got a great lineup. We got CEO Seo's data Practitioners. We got a hard core technologies coming in, cloud experts, investors. We got some analysts coming in and we're creating this day long Siri's. And we've got a number of sessions that we've developed and we're gonna unpack. The future of Cloud computing in the coming decade is, John said, we're gonna talk about some of the public policy new administration. What does that mean for tech and for big tech in General? John, what can you add to that? >>Well, I think one of the things that we talked about Cove in this personal impact to me but other people as well. One of the things that people are craving right now is information factual information, truth texture that we call it. But hear this event for us, Davis, our first inaugural editorial event. Robbo, Kristen, Nicole, the entire Cube team Silicon angle, really trying to put together Morva cadence we're gonna doom or of these events where we can put out feature the best people in our community that have great fresh voices. You know, we do interview the big names Andy Jassy, Michael Dell, the billionaires with people making things happen. But it's often the people under there that are the rial newsmakers amid savory, for instance, that Google one of the most impressive technical people, he's gotta talk. He's gonna present democratization of software development in many Mawr riel people making things happen. And I think there's a communal element. We're going to do more of these. Obviously, we have, uh, no events to go to with the Cube. So we have the cube virtual software that we have been building and over years and now perfecting and we're gonna introduce that we're gonna put it to work, their dog footing it. We're gonna put that software toe work. We're gonna do a lot mawr virtual events like this Cuban cloud Cuban startup Cuban raising money. Cuban healthcare, Cuban venture capital. Always think we could do anything. Question is, what's the right story? What's the most important stories? Who's telling it and increase the aperture of the lens of the industry that we have and and expose that and fastest possible. That's what this software, you'll see more of it. So it's super exciting. We're gonna add new features like pulling people up on stage, Um, kind of bring on the clubhouse vibe and more of a community interaction with people to meet each other, and we'll roll those out. But the goal here is to just showcase it's cloud story in a way from people that are living it and providing value. So enjoy the day is gonna be chock full of presentations. We're gonna have moderated chat in these sessions, so it's an all day event so people can come in, drop out, and also that's everything's on demand immediately after the time slot. But you >>want to >>participate, come into the time slot into the cube room or breakout session. Whatever you wanna call it, it's a cube room, and the people in there chatting and having a watch party. So >>when you're in that home page when you're watching, there's a hero video there. Beneath that, there's a calendar, and you'll see that red line is that red horizontal line of vertical line is rather, it's a linear clock that will show you where we are in the day. If you click on any one of those sessions that will take you into the chat, we'll take you through those in a moment and share with you some of the guests that we have upcoming and and take you through the day what I wanted to do. John is trying to set the stage for the conversations that folks are gonna here today. And to do that, I wanna ask the guys to bring up a graphic. And I want to talk to you, John, about the progression of cloud over time and maybe go back to the beginning and review the evolution of cloud and then really talk a little bit about where we think it Z headed. So, guys, if you bring up that graphic when a W S announced s three, it was March of 2000 and six. And as you recall, John you know, nobody really. In the vendor and user community. They didn't really pay too much attention to that. And then later that year, in August, it announced E C two people really started. They started to think about a new model of computing, but they were largely, you know, chicken tires. And it was kind of bleeding edge developers that really leaned in. Um what? What were you thinking at the time? When when you saw, uh, s three e c to this retail company coming into the tech world? >>I mean, I thought it was totally crap. I'm like, this is terrible. But then at that time, I was thinking working on I was in between kind of start ups and I didn't have a lot of seed funding. And then I realized the C two was freaking awesome. But I'm like, Holy shit, this is really great because I don't need to pay a lot of cash, the Provisional Data center, or get a server. Or, you know, at that time, state of the art startup move was to buy a super micro box or some sort of power server. Um, it was well past the whole proprietary thing. But you have to assemble probably anyone with 5 to 8 grand box and go in, and we'll put a couple ghetto rack, which is basically, uh, you know, you put it into some coasting location. It's like with everybody else in the tech ghetto of hosting, still paying monthly fees and then maintaining it and provisioning that's just to get started. And then Amazon was just really easy. And then from there you just It was just awesome. I just knew Amazon would be great. They had a lot of things that they had to fix. You know, custom domains and user interface Council got better and better, but it was awesome. >>Well, what we really saw the cloud take hold from my perspective anyway, was the financial crisis in, you know, 709 It put cloud on the radar of a number of CFOs and, of course, shadow I T departments. They wanted to get stuff done and and take I t in in in, ah, pecs, bite sized chunks. So it really was. There's cloud awakening and we came out of that financial crisis, and this we're now in this 10 year plus boom um, you know, notwithstanding obviously the economic crisis with cove it. But much of it was powered by the cloud in the decade. I would say it was really about I t transformation. And it kind of ironic, if you will, because the pandemic it hits at the beginning of this decade, >>and it >>creates this mandate to go digital. So you've you've said a lot. John has pulled forward. It's accelerated this industry transformation. Everybody talks about that, but and we've highlighted it here in this graphic. It probably would have taken several more years to mature. But overnight you had this forced march to digital. And if you weren't a digital business, you were kind of out of business. And and so it's sort of here to stay. How do you see >>You >>know what this evolution and what we can expect in the coming decades? E think it's safe to say the last 10 years defined by you know, I t transformation. That's not gonna be the same in the coming years. How do you see it? >>It's interesting. I think the big tech companies are on, but I think this past election, the United States shows um, the power that technology has. And if you look at some of the main trends in the enterprise specifically around what clouds accelerating, I call the second wave of innovations coming where, um, it's different. It's not what people expect. Its edge edge computing, for instance, has talked about a lot. But industrial i o t. Is really where we've had a lot of problems lately in terms of hacks and malware and just just overall vulnerabilities, whether it's supply chain vulnerabilities, toe actual disinformation, you know, you know, vulnerabilities inside these networks s I think this network effects, it's gonna be a huge thing. I think the impact that tech will have on society and global society geopolitical things gonna be also another one. Um, I think the modern application development of how applications were written with data, you know, we always been saying this day from the beginning of the Cube data is his integral part of the development process. And I think more than ever, when you think about cloud and edge and this distributed computing paradigm, that cloud is now going next level with is the software and how it's written will be different. You gotta handle things like, where's the compute component? Is it gonna be at the edge with all the server chips, innovations that Amazon apple intel of doing, you're gonna have compute right at the edge, industrial and kind of human edge. How does that work? What's Leighton see to that? It's it really is an edge game. So to me, software has to be written holistically in a system's impact on the way. Now that's not necessarily nude in the computer science and in the tech field, it's just gonna be deployed differently. So that's a complete rewrite, in my opinion of the software applications. Which is why you're seeing Amazon Google VM Ware really pushing Cooper Netease and these service messes in the micro Services because super critical of this technology become smarter, automated, autonomous. And that's completely different paradigm in the old full stack developer, you know, kind of model. You know, the full stack developer, his ancient. There's no such thing as a full stack developer anymore, in my opinion, because it's a half a stack because the cloud takes up the other half. But no one wants to be called the half stack developer because it doesn't sound as good as Full Stack, but really Cloud has eliminated the technology complexity of what a full stack developer used to dio. Now you can manage it and do things with it, so you know, there's some work to done, but the heavy lifting but taking care of it's the top of the stack that I think is gonna be a really critical component. >>Yeah, and that that sort of automation and machine intelligence layer is really at the top of the stack. This this thing becomes ubiquitous, and we now start to build businesses and new processes on top of it. I wanna I wanna take a look at the Big Three and guys, Can we bring up the other The next graphic, which is an estimate of what the revenue looks like for the for the Big three. And John, this is I asked and past spend for the Big Three Cloud players. And it's It's an estimate that we're gonna update after earning seasons, and I wanna point a couple things out here. First is if you look at the combined revenue production of the Big Three last year, it's almost 80 billion in infrastructure spend. I mean, think about that. That Z was that incremental spend? No. It really has caused a lot of consolidation in the on Prem data center business for guys like Dell. And, you know, um, see, now, part of the LHP split up IBM Oracle. I mean, it's etcetera. They've all felt this sea change, and they had to respond to it. I think the second thing is you can see on this data. Um, it's true that azure and G C P they seem to be growing faster than a W s. We don't know the exact numbers >>because >>A W S is the only company that really provides a clean view of i s and pass. Whereas Microsoft and Google, they kind of hide the ball in their numbers. I mean, I don't blame them because they're behind, but they do leave breadcrumbs and clues about growth rates and so forth. And so we have other means of estimating, but it's it's undeniable that azure is catching up. I mean, it's still quite distance the third thing, and before I want to get your input here, John is this is nuanced. But despite the fact that Azure and Google the growing faster than a W s. You can see those growth rates. A W s I'll call this out is the only company by our estimates that grew its business sequentially last quarter. Now, in and of itself, that's not significant. But what is significant is because AWS is so large there $45 billion last year, even if the slower growth rates it's able to grow mawr and absolute terms than its competitors, who are basically flat to down sequentially by our estimates. Eso So that's something that I think is important to point out. Everybody focuses on the growth rates, but it's you gotta look at also the absolute dollars and, well, nonetheless, Microsoft in particular, they're they're closing the gap steadily, and and we should talk more about the competitive dynamics. But I'd love to get your take on on all this, John. >>Well, I mean, the clouds are gonna win right now. Big time with the one the political climate is gonna be favoring Big check. But more importantly, with just talking about covert impact and celebrating the digital transformation is gonna create a massive rising tide. It's already happening. It's happening it's happening. And again, this shift in programming, uh, models are gonna really kinda accelerating, create new great growth. So there's no doubt in my mind of all three you're gonna win big, uh, in the future, they're just different, You know, the way they're going to market position themselves, they have to be. Google has to be a little bit different than Amazon because they're smaller and they also have different capabilities, then trying to catch up. So if you're Google or Microsoft, you have to have a competitive strategy to decide. How do I wanna ride the tide If you will put the rising tide? Well, if I'm Amazon, I mean, if I'm Microsoft and Google, I'm not going to try to go frontal and try to copy Amazon because Amazon is just pounding lead of features and scale and they're different. They were, I would say, take advantage of the first mover of pure public cloud. They really awesome. It passed and I, as they've integrated in Gardner, now reports and integrated I as and passed components. So Gardner finally got their act together and said, Hey, this is really one thing. SAS is completely different animal now Microsoft Super Smart because they I think they played the right card. They have a huge installed base converted to keep office 3 65 and move sequel server and all their core jewels into the cloud as fast as possible, clarified while filling in the gaps on the product side to be cloud. So you know, as you're doing trends job, they're just it's just pedal as fast as you can. But Microsoft is really in. The strategy is just go faster trying. Keep pedaling fast, get the features, feature velocity and try to make it high quality. Google is a little bit different. They have a little power base in terms of their network of strong, and they have a lot of other big data capabilities, so they have to use those to their advantage. So there is. There is there is competitive strategy game application happening with these companies. It's not like apples, the apples, In my opinion, it never has been, and I think that's funny that people talk about it that way. >>Well, you're bringing up some great points. I want guys bring up the next graphic because a lot of things that John just said are really relevant here. And what we're showing is that's a survey. Data from E. T. R R Data partners, like 1400 plus CEOs and I T buyers and on the vertical axis is this thing called Net score, which is a measure of spending momentum. And the horizontal axis is is what's called market share. It's a measure of the pervasiveness or, you know, number of mentions in the data set. There's a couple of key points I wanna I wanna pick up on relative to what John just said. So you see A W S and Microsoft? They stand alone. I mean, they're the hyper scale er's. They're far ahead of the pack and frankly, they have fall down, toe, lose their lead. They spend a lot on Capex. They got the flywheel effects going. They got both spending velocity and large market shares, and so, but they're taking a different approach. John, you're right there living off of their SAS, the state, their software state, Andi, they're they're building that in to their cloud. So they got their sort of a captive base of Microsoft customers. So they've got that advantage. They also as we'll hear from from Microsoft today. They they're building mawr abstraction layers. Andy Jassy has said We don't wanna be in that abstraction layer business. We wanna have access to those, you know, fine grain primitives and eso at an AP level. So so we can move fast with the market. But but But so those air sort of different philosophies, John? >>Yeah. I mean, you know, people who know me know that I love Amazon. I think their product is superior at many levels on in its way that that has advantages again. They have a great sass and ecosystem. They don't really have their own SAS play, although they're trying to add some stuff on. I've been kind of critical of Microsoft in the past, but one thing I'm not critical of Microsoft, and people can get this wrong in the marketplace. Actually, in the journalism world and also in just some other analysts, Microsoft has always had large scale eso to say that Microsoft never had scale on that Amazon owned the monopoly on our franchise on scales wrong. Microsoft had scale from day one. Their business was always large scale global. They've always had infrastructure with MSN and their search and the distributive how they distribute browsers and multiple countries. Remember they had the lock on the operating system and the browser for until the government stepped in in 1997. And since 1997 Microsoft never ever not invested in infrastructure and scale. So that whole premise that they don't compete well there is wrong. And I think that chart demonstrates that there, in there in the hyper scale leadership category, hands down the question that I have. Is that there not as good and making that scale integrate in because they have that legacy cards. This is the classic innovator's dilemma. Clay Christensen, right? So I think they're doing a good job. I think their strategy sound. They're moving as fast as they can. But then you know they're not gonna come out and say We don't have the best cloud. Um, that's not a marketing strategy. Have to kind of hide in this and get better and then double down on where they're winning, which is. Clients are converting from their legacy at the speed of Microsoft, and they have a huge client base, So that's why they're stopping so high That's why they're so good. >>Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a little preview. I talked to gear up your f Who's gonna come on today and you'll see I I asked him because the criticism of Microsoft is they're, you know, they're just good enough. And so I asked him, Are you better than good enough? You know, those are fighting words if you're inside of Microsoft, but so you'll you'll have to wait to see his answer. Now, if you guys, if you could bring that that graphic back up I wanted to get into the hybrid zone. You know where the field is. Always got >>some questions coming in on chat, Dave. So we'll get to those >>great Awesome. So just just real quick Here you see this hybrid zone, this the field is bunched up, and the other companies who have a large on Prem presence and have been forced to initiate some kind of coherent cloud strategy included. There is Michael Michael, multi Cloud, and Google's there, too, because they're far behind and they got to take a different approach than a W s. But as you can see, so there's some real progress here. VM ware cloud on AWS stands out, as does red hat open shift. You got VM Ware Cloud, which is a VCF Cloud Foundation, even Dell's cloud. And you'd expect HP with Green Lake to be picking up momentum in the future quarters. And you've got IBM and Oracle, which there you go with the innovator's dilemma. But there, at least in the cloud game, and we can talk about that. But so, John, you know, to your point, you've gotta have different strategies. You're you're not going to take out the big too. So you gotta play, connect your print your on Prem to your cloud, your hybrid multi cloud and try to create new opportunities and new value there. >>Yeah, I mean, I think we'll get to the question, but just that point. I think this Zeri Chen's come on the Cube many times. We're trying to get him to come on lunch today with Features startup, but he's always said on the Q B is a V C at Greylock great firm. Jerry's Cloud genius. He's been there, but he made a point many, many years ago. It's not a winner. Take all the winner. Take most, and the Big Three maybe put four or five in there. We'll take most of the markets here. But I think one of the things that people are missing and aren't talking about Dave is that there's going to be a second tier cloud, large scale model. I don't want to say tear to cloud. It's coming to sound like a sub sub cloud, but a new category of cloud on cloud, right? So meaning if you get a snowflake, did I think this is a tale? Sign to what's coming. VM Ware Cloud is a native has had huge success, mainly because Amazon is essentially enabling them to be successful. So I think is going to be a wave of a more of a channel model of indirect cloud build out where companies like the Cube, potentially for media or others, will build clouds on top of the cloud. So if Google, Microsoft and Amazon, whoever is the first one to really enable that okay, we'll do extremely well because that means you can compete with their scale and create differentiation on top. So what snowflake did is all on Amazon now. They kind of should go to azure because it's, you know, politically correct that have multiple clouds and distribution and business model shifts. But to get that kind of performance they just wrote on Amazon. So there's nothing wrong with that. Because you're getting paid is variable. It's cap ex op X nice categorization. So I think that's the way that we're watching. I think it's super valuable, I think will create some surprises in terms of who might come out of the woodwork on be a leader in a category. Well, >>your timing is perfect, John and we do have some questions in the chat. But before we get to that, I want to bring in Sargi Joe Hall, who's a contributor to to our community. Sargi. Can you hear us? All right, so we got, uh, while >>bringing in Sarpy. Let's go down from the questions. So the first question, Um, we'll still we'll get the student second. The first question. But Ronald ask, Can a vendor in 2021 exist without a hybrid cloud story? Well, story and capabilities. Yes, they could live with. They have to have a story. >>Well, And if they don't own a public cloud? No. No, they absolutely cannot. Uh hey, Sergey. How you doing, man? Good to see you. So, folks, let me let me bring in Sergeant Kohala. He's a He's a cloud architect. He's a practitioner, He's worked in as a technologist. And there's a frequent guest on on the Cube. Good to see you, my friend. Thanks for taking the time with us. >>And good to see you guys to >>us. So we were kind of riffing on the competitive landscape we got. We got so much to talk about this, like, it's a number of questions coming in. Um, but Sargi we wanna talk about you know, what's happening here in Cloud Land? Let's get right into it. I mean, what do you guys see? I mean, we got yesterday. New regime, new inaug inauguration. Do you do you expect public policy? You'll start with you Sargi to have What kind of effect do you think public policy will have on, you know, cloud generally specifically, the big tech companies, the tech lash. Is it gonna be more of the same? Or do you see a big difference coming? >>I think that there will be some changing narrative. I believe on that. is mainly, um, from the regulators side. A lot has happened in one month, right? So people, I think are losing faith in high tech in a certain way. I mean, it doesn't, uh, e think it matters with camp. You belong to left or right kind of thing. Right? But parlor getting booted out from Italy s. I think that was huge. Um, like, how do you know that if a cloud provider will not boot you out? Um, like, what is that line where you draw the line? What are the rules? I think that discussion has to take place. Another thing which has happened in the last 23 months is is the solar winds hack, right? So not us not sort acknowledging that I was Russia and then wish you watching it now, new administration might have a different sort of Boston on that. I think that's huge. I think public public private partnership in security arena will emerge this year. We have to address that. Yeah, I think it's not changing. Uh, >>economics economy >>will change gradually. You know, we're coming out off pandemic. The money is still cheap on debt will not be cheap. for long. I think m and a activity really will pick up. So those are my sort of high level, Uh, >>thank you. I wanna come back to them. And because there's a question that chat about him in a But, John, how do you see it? Do you think Amazon and Google on a slippery slope booting parlor off? I mean, how do they adjudicate between? Well, what's happening in parlor? Uh, anything could happen on clubhouse. Who knows? I mean, can you use a I to find that stuff? >>Well, that's I mean, the Amazons, right? Hiding right there bunkered in right now from that bad, bad situation. Because again, like people we said Amazon, these all three cloud players win in the current environment. Okay, Who wins with the U. S. With the way we are China, Russia, cloud players. Okay, let's face it, that's the reality. So if I wanted to reset the world stage, you know what better way than the, you know, change over the United States economy, put people out of work, make people scared, and then reset the entire global landscape and control all with cash? That's, you know, conspiracy theory. >>So you see the riches, you see the riches, get the rich, get richer. >>Yeah, well, that's well, that's that. That's kind of what's happening, right? So if you start getting into this idea that you can't actually have an app on site because the reason now I'm not gonna I don't know the particular parlor, but apparently there was a reason. But this is dangerous, right? So what? What that's gonna do is and whether it's right or wrong or not, whether political opinion is it means that they were essentially taken offline by people that weren't voted for that. Weren't that when people didn't vote for So that's not a democracy, right? So that's that's a different kind of regime. What it's also going to do is you also have this groundswell of decentralized thinking, right. So you have a whole wave of crypto and decentralized, um, cyber punks out there who want to decentralize it. So all of this stuff in January has created a huge counterculture, and I had predicted this so many times in the Cube. David counterculture is coming and and you already have this kind of counterculture between centralized and decentralized thinking and so I think the Amazon's move is dangerous at a fundamental level. Because if you can't get it, if you can't get buy domain names and you're completely blackballed by by organized players, that's a Mafia, in my opinion. So, uh, and that and it's also fuels the decentralized move because people say, Hey, if that could be done to them, it could be done to me. Just the fact that it could be done will promote a swing in the other direction. I >>mean, independent of of, you know, again, somebody said your political views. I mean Parlor would say, Hey, we're trying to clean this stuff up now. Maybe they didn't do it fast enough, but you think about how new parlor is. You think about the early days of Twitter and Facebook, so they were sort of at a disadvantage. Trying to >>have it was it was partly was what it was. It was a right wing stand up job of standing up something quick. Their security was terrible. If you look at me and Cory Quinn on be great to have him, and he did a great analysis on this, because if you look the lawsuit was just terrible. Security was just a half, asshole. >>Well, and the experience was horrible. I mean, it's not It was not a great app, but But, like you said, it was a quick stew. Hand up, you know, for an agenda. But nonetheless, you know, to start, get to your point earlier. It's like, you know, Are they gonna, you know, shut me down? If I say something that's, you know, out of line, or how do I control that? >>Yeah, I remember, like, 2019, we involved closing sort of remarks. I was there. I was saying that these companies are gonna be too big to fail. And also, they're too big for other nations to do business with. In a way, I think MNCs are running the show worldwide. They're running the government's. They are way. Have seen the proof of that in us this year. Late last year and this year, um, Twitter last night blocked Chinese Ambassador E in us. Um, from there, you know, platform last night and I was like, What? What's going on? So, like, we used to we used to say, like the Chinese company, tech companies are in bed with the Chinese government. Right. Remember that? And now and now, Actually, I think Chinese people can say the same thing about us companies. Uh, it's not a good thing. >>Well, let's >>get some question. >>Let's get some questions from the chat. Yeah. Thank you. One is on M and a subject you mentioned them in a Who do you see is possible emanate targets. I mean, I could throw a couple out there. Um, you know, some of the cdn players, maybe aka my You know, I like I like Hashi Corp. I think they're doing some really interesting things. What do you see? >>Nothing. Hashi Corp. And anybody who's doing things in the periphery is a candidate for many by the big guys, you know, by the hyper scholars and number two tier two or five hyper scholars. Right. Uh, that's why sales forces of the world and stuff like that. Um, some some companies, which I thought there will be a target, Sort of. I mean, they target they're getting too big, because off their evaluations, I think how she Corpuz one, um, >>and >>their bunch in the networking space. Uh, well, Tara, if I say the right that was acquired by at five this week, this week or last week, Actually, last week for $500 million. Um, I know they're founder. So, like I found that, Yeah, there's a lot going on on the on the network side on the anything to do with data. Uh, that those air too hard areas in the cloud arena >>data, data protection, John, any any anything you could adhere. >>And I think I mean, I think ej ej is gonna be where the gaps are. And I think m and a activity is gonna be where again, the bigger too big to fail would agree with you on that one. But we're gonna look at white Spaces and say a white space for Amazon is like a monster space for a start up. Right? So you're gonna have these huge white spaces opportunities, and I think it's gonna be an M and a opportunity big time start ups to get bought in. Given the speed on, I think you're gonna see it around databases and around some of these new service meshes and micro services. I mean, >>they there's a There's a question here, somebody's that dons asking why is Google who has the most pervasive tech infrastructure on the planet. Not at the same level of other to hyper scale is I'll give you my two cents is because it took him a long time to get their heads out of their ads. I wrote a piece of around that a while ago on they just they figured out how to learn the enterprise. I mean, John, you've made this point a number of times, but they just and I got a late start. >>Yeah, they're adding a lot of people. If you look at their who their hiring on the Google Cloud, they're adding a lot of enterprise chops in there. They realized this years ago, and we've talked to many of the top leaders, although Curry and hasn't yet sit down with us. Um, don't know what he's hiding or waiting for, but they're clearly not geared up to chicken Pete. You can see it with some some of the things that they're doing, but I mean competed the level of Amazon, but they have strength and they're playing their strength, but they definitely recognize that they didn't have the enterprise motions and people in the DNA and that David takes time people in the enterprise. It's not for the faint of heart. It's unique details that are different. You can't just, you know, swing the Google playbook and saying We're gonna home The enterprises are text grade. They knew that years ago. So I think you're going to see a good year for Google. I think you'll see a lot of change. Um, they got great people in there. On the product marketing side is Dev Solution Architects, and then the SRE model that they have perfected has been strong. And I think security is an area that they could really had a lot of value it. So, um always been a big fan of their huge network and all the intelligence they have that they could bring to bear on security. >>Yeah, I think Google's problem main problem that to actually there many, but one is that they don't They don't have the boots on the ground as compared to um, Microsoft, especially an Amazon actually had a similar problem, but they had a wide breath off their product portfolio. I always talk about feature proximity in cloud context, like if you're doing one thing. You wanna do another thing? And how do you go get that feature? Do you go to another cloud writer or it's right there where you are. So I think Amazon has the feature proximity and they also have, uh, aske Compared to Google, there's skills gravity. Larger people are trained on AWS. I think Google is trying there. So second problem Google is having is that that they're they're more focused on, I believe, um, on the data science part on their sort of skipping the cool components sort of off the cloud, if you will. The where the workloads needs, you know, basic stuff, right? That's like your compute storage and network. And that has to be well, talk through e think e think they will do good. >>Well, so later today, Paul Dillon sits down with Mids Avery of Google used to be in Oracle. He's with Google now, and he's gonna push him on on the numbers. You know, you're a distant third. Does that matter? And of course, you know, you're just a preview of it's gonna say, Well, no, we don't really pay attention to that stuff. But, John, you said something earlier that. I think Jerry Chen made this comment that, you know, Is it a winner? Take all? No, but it's a winner. Take a lot. You know the number two is going to get a big chunk of the pie. It appears that the markets big enough for three. But do you? Does Google have to really dramatically close the gap on be a much, much closer, you know, to the to the leaders in orderto to compete in this race? Or can they just kind of continue to bump along, siphon off the ad revenue? Put it out there? I mean, I >>definitely can compete. I think that's like Google's in it. Then it they're not. They're not caving, right? >>So But But I wrote I wrote recently that I thought they should even even put mawr oven emphasis on the cloud. I mean, maybe maybe they're already, you know, doubling down triple down. I just I think that is a multi trillion dollar, you know, future for the industry. And, you know, I think Google, believe it or not, could even do more. Now. Maybe there's just so much you could dio. >>There's a lot of challenges with these company, especially Google. They're in Silicon Valley. We have a big Social Justice warrior mentality. Um, there's a big debate going on the in the back channels of the tech scene here, and that is that if you want to be successful in cloud, you have to have a good edge strategy, and that involves surveillance, use of data and pushing the privacy limits. Right? So you know, Google has people within the country that will protest contract because AI is being used for war. Yet we have the most unstable geopolitical seen that I've ever witnessed in my lifetime going on right now. So, um, don't >>you think that's what happened with parlor? I mean, Rob Hope said, Hey, bar is pretty high to kick somebody off your platform. The parlor went over the line, but I would also think that a lot of the employees, whether it's Google AWS as well, said, Hey, why are we supporting you know this and so to your point about social justice, I mean, that's not something. That >>parlor was not just social justice. They were trying to throw the government. That's Rob e. I think they were in there to get selfies and being protesters. But apparently there was evidence from what I heard in some of these clubhouse, uh, private chats. Waas. There was overwhelming evidence on parlor. >>Yeah, but my point is that the employee backlash was also a factor. That's that's all I'm saying. >>Well, we have Google is your Google and you have employees to say we will boycott and walk out if you bid on that jet I contract for instance, right, But Microsoft one from maybe >>so. I mean, that's well, >>I think I think Tom Poole's making a really good point here, which is a Google is an alternative. Thio aws. The last Google cloud next that we were asked at they had is all virtual issue. But I saw a lot of I T practitioners in the audience looking around for an alternative to a W s just seeing, though, we could talk about Mano Cloud or Multi Cloud, and Andy Jassy has his his narrative around, and he's true when somebody goes multiple clouds, they put you know most of their eggs in one basket. Nonetheless, I think you know, Google's got a lot of people interested in, particularly in the analytic side, um, in in an alternative, hedging their bets eso and particularly use cases, so they should be able to do so. I guess my the bottom line here is the markets big enough to have Really? You don't have to be the Jack Welch. I gotta be number one and number two in the market. Is that the conclusion here? >>I think so. But the data gravity and the skills gravity are playing against them. Another problem, which I didn't want a couple of earlier was Google Eyes is that they have to boot out AWS wherever they go. Right? That is a huge challenge. Um, most off the most off the Fortune 2000 companies are already using AWS in one way or another. Right? So they are the multi cloud kind of player. Another one, you know, and just pure purely somebody going 200% Google Cloud. Uh, those cases are kind of pure, if you will. >>I think it's gonna be absolutely multi cloud. I think it's gonna be a time where you looked at the marketplace and you're gonna think in terms of disaster recovery, model of cloud or just fault tolerant capabilities or, you know, look at the parlor, the next parlor. Or what if Amazon wakes up one day and said, Hey, I don't like the cubes commentary on their virtual events, so shut them down. We should have a fail over to Google Cloud should Microsoft and Option. And one of people in Microsoft ecosystem wants to buy services from us. We have toe kind of co locate there. So these are all open questions that are gonna be the that will become certain pretty quickly, which is, you know, can a company diversify their computing An i t. In a way that works. And I think the momentum around Cooper Netease you're seeing as a great connective tissue between, you know, having applications work between clouds. Right? Well, directionally correct, in my opinion, because if I'm a company, why wouldn't I wanna have choice? So >>let's talk about this. The data is mixed on that. I'll share some data, meaty our data with you. About half the companies will say Yeah, we're spreading the wealth around to multiple clouds. Okay, That's one thing will come back to that. About the other half were saying, Yeah, we're predominantly mono cloud we didn't have. The resource is. But what I think going forward is that that what multi cloud really becomes. And I think John, you mentioned Snowflake before. I think that's an indicator of what what true multi cloud is going to look like. And what Snowflake is doing is they're building abstraction, layer across clouds. Ed Walsh would say, I'm standing on the shoulders of Giants, so they're basically following points of presence around the globe and building their own cloud. They call it a data cloud with a global mesh. We'll hear more about that later today, but you sign on to that cloud. So they're saying, Hey, we're gonna build value because so many of Amazon's not gonna build that abstraction layer across multi clouds, at least not in the near term. So that's a really opportunity for >>people. I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm dating myself, but you know the date ourselves, David. I remember back in the eighties, when you had open systems movement, right? The part of the whole Revolution OS I open systems interconnect model. At that time, the networking stacks for S N A. For IBM, decadent for deck we all know that was a proprietary stack and then incomes TCP I p Now os I never really happened on all seven layers, but the bottom layers standardized. Okay, that was huge. So I think if you look at a W s or some of the comments in the chat AWS is could be the s n a. Depends how you're looking at it, right? And you could say they're open. But in a way, they want more Amazon. So Amazon's not out there saying we love multi cloud. Why would they promote multi cloud? They are a one of the clouds they want. >>That's interesting, John. And then subject is a cloud architect. I mean, it's it is not trivial to make You're a data cloud. If you're snowflake, work on AWS work on Google. Work on Azure. Be seamless. I mean, certainly the marketing says that, but technically, that's not trivial. You know, there are latent see issues. Uh, you know, So that's gonna take a while to develop. What? Do your thoughts there? >>I think that multi cloud for for same workload and multi cloud for different workloads are two different things. Like we usually put multiple er in one bucket, right? So I think you're right. If you're trying to do multi cloud for the same workload, that's it. That's Ah, complex, uh, problem to solve architecturally, right. You have to have a common ap ice and common, you know, control playing, if you will. And we don't have that yet, and then we will not have that for a for at least one other couple of years. So, uh, if you if you want to do that, then you have to go to the lower, lowest common denominator in technical sort of stock, if you will. And then you're not leveraging the best of the breed technology off their from different vendors, right? I believe that's a hard problem to solve. And in another thing, is that that that I always say this? I'm always on the death side, you know, developer side, I think, uh, two deaths. Public cloud is a proxy for innovative culture. Right. So there's a catch phrase I have come up with today during shower eso. I think that is true. And then people who are companies who use the best of the breed technologies, they can attract the these developers and developers are the Mazen's off This digital sort of empires, amazingly, is happening there. Right there they are the Mazen's right. They head on the bricks. I think if you don't appeal to developers, if you don't but extensive for, like, force behind educating the market, you can't you can't >>put off. It's the same game Stepping story was seeing some check comments. Uh, guard. She's, uh, linked in friend of mine. She said, Microsoft, If you go back and look at the Microsoft early days to the developer Point they were, they made their phones with developers. They were a software company s Oh, hey, >>forget developers, developers, developers. >>You were if you were in the developer ecosystem, you were treated his gold. You were part of the family. If you were outside that world, you were competitors, and that was ruthless times back then. But they again they had. That was where it was today. Look at where the software defined businesses and starve it, saying it's all about being developer lead in this new way to program, right? So the cloud next Gen Cloud is going to look a lot like next Gen Developer and all the different tools and techniques they're gonna change. So I think, yes, this kind of developer ecosystem will be harnessed, and that's the power source. It's just gonna look different. So, >>Justin, Justin in the chat has a comment. I just want to answer the question about elastic thoughts on elastic. Um, I tell you, elastic has momentum uh, doing doing very well in the market place. Thea Elk Stack is a great alternative that people are looking thio relative to Splunk. Who people complain about the pricing. Of course it's plunks got the easy button, but it is getting increasingly expensive. The problem with elk stack is you know, it's open source. It gets complicated. You got a shard, the databases you gotta manage. It s Oh, that's what Ed Walsh's company chaos searches is all about. But elastic has some riel mo mentum in the marketplace right now. >>Yeah, you know, other things that coming on the chat understands what I was saying about the open systems is kubernetes. I always felt was that is a bad metaphor. But they're with me. That was the TCP I peep In this modern era, C t c p I p created that that the disruptor to the S N A s and the network protocols that were proprietary. So what KUBERNETES is doing is creating a connective tissue between clouds and letting the open source community fill in the gaps in the middle, where kind of way kind of probably a bad analogy. But that's where the disruption is. And if you look at what's happened since Kubernetes was put out there, what it's become kind of de facto and standard in the sense that everyone's rallying around it. Same exact thing happened with TCP was people were trashing it. It is terrible, you know it's not. Of course they were trashed because it was open. So I find that to be very interesting. >>Yeah, that's a good >>analogy. E. Thinks the R C a cable. I used the R C. A cable analogy like the VCRs. When they started, they, every VC had had their own cable, and they will work on Lee with that sort of plan of TV and the R C. A cable came and then now you can put any TV with any VCR, and the VCR industry took off. There's so many examples out there around, uh, standards And how standards can, you know, flair that fire, if you will, on dio for an industry to go sort of wild. And another trend guys I'm seeing is that from the consumer side. And let's talk a little bit on the consuming side. Um, is that the The difference wouldn't be to B and B to C is blood blurred because even the physical products are connected to the end user Like my door lock, the August door lock I didn't just put got get the door lock and forget about that. Like I I value the expedience it gives me or problems that gives me on daily basis. So I'm close to that vendor, right? So So the middle men, uh, middle people are getting removed from from the producer off the technology or the product to the consumer. Even even the sort of big grocery players they have their APs now, uh, how do you buy stuff and how it's delivered and all that stuff that experience matters in that context, I think, um, having, uh, to be able to sell to thes enterprises from the Cloud writer Breuder's. They have to have these case studies or all these sample sort off reference architectures and stuff like that. I think whoever has that mawr pushed that way, they are doing better like that. Amazon is Amazon. Because of that reason, I think they have lot off sort off use cases about on top of them. And they themselves do retail like crazy. Right? So and other things at all s. So I think that's a big trend. >>Great. Great points are being one of things. There's a question in there about from, uh, Yaden. Who says, uh, I like the developer Lead cloud movement, But what is the criticality of the executive audience when educating the marketplace? Um, this comes up a lot in some of my conversations around automation. So automation has been a big wave to automate this automate everything. And then everything is a service has become kind of kind of the the executive suite. Kind of like conversation we need to make everything is a service in our business. You seeing people move to that cloud model. Okay, so the executives think everything is a services business strategy, which it is on some level, but then, when they say Take that hill, do it. Developers. It's not that easy. And this is where a lot of our cube conversations over the past few months have been, especially during the cova with cute virtual. This has come up a lot, Dave this idea, and start being around. It's easy to say everything is a service but will implement it. It's really hard, and I think that's where the developer lead Connection is where the executive have to understand that in order to just say it and do it are two different things. That digital transformation. That's a big part of it. So I think that you're gonna see a lot of education this year around what it means to actually do that and how to implement it. >>I'd like to comment on the as a service and subject. Get your take on it. I mean, I think you're seeing, for instance, with HP Green Lake, Dell's come out with Apex. You know IBM as its utility model. These companies were basically taking a page out of what I what I would call a flawed SAS model. If you look at the SAS players, whether it's salesforce or workday, service now s a P oracle. These models are They're really They're not cloud pricing models. They're they're basically you got to commit to a term one year, two year, three year. We'll give you a discount if you commit to the longer term. But you're locked in on you. You probably pay upfront. Or maybe you pay quarterly. That's not a cloud pricing model. And that's why I mean, they're flawed. You're seeing companies like Data Dog, for example. Snowflake is another one, and they're beginning to price on a consumption basis. And that is, I think, one of the big changes that we're going to see this decade is that true cloud? You know, pay by the drink pricing model and to your point, john toe, actually implement. That is, you're gonna need a whole new layer across your company on it is quite complicated it not even to mention how you compensate salespeople, etcetera. The a p. I s of your product. I mean, it is that, but that is a big sea change that I see coming. Subject your >>thoughts. Yeah, I think like you couldn't see it. And like some things for this big tech exacts are hidden in the plain >>sight, right? >>They don't see it. They they have blind spots, like Look at that. Look at Amazon. They went from Melissa and 200 millisecond building on several s, Right, Right. And then here you are, like you're saying, pay us for the whole year. If you don't use the cloud, you lose it or will pay by month. Poor user and all that stuff like that that those a role models, I think these players will be forced to use that term pricing like poor minute or for a second, poor user. That way, I think the Salesforce moral is hybrid. They're struggling in a way. I think they're trying to bring the platform by doing, you know, acquisition after acquisition to be a platform for other people to build on top off. But they're having a little trouble there because because off there, such pricing and little closeness, if you will. And, uh, again, I'm coming, going, going back to developers like, if you are not appealing to developers who are writing the latest and greatest code and it is open enough, by the way open and open source are two different things that we all know that. So if your platform is not open enough, you will have you know, some problems in closing the deals. >>E. I want to just bring up a question on chat around from Justin didn't fitness. Who says can you touch on the vertical clouds? Has your offering this and great question Great CP announcing Retail cloud inventions IBM Athena Okay, I'm a huge on this point because I think this I'm not saying this for years. Cloud computing is about horizontal scalability and vertical specialization, and that's absolutely clear, and you see all the clouds doing it. The vertical rollouts is where the high fidelity data is, and with machine learning and AI efforts coming out, that's accelerated benefits. There you have tow, have the vertical focus. I think it's super smart that clouds will have some sort of vertical engine, if you will in the clouds and build on top of a control playing. Whether that's data or whatever, this is clearly the winning formula. If you look at all the successful kind of ai implementations, the ones that have access to the most data will get the most value. So, um if you're gonna have a data driven cloud you have tow, have this vertical feeling, Um, in terms of verticals, the data on DSO I think that's super important again, just generally is a strategy. I think Google doing a retail about a super smart because their whole pitches were not Amazon on. Some people say we're not Google, depending on where you look at. So every of these big players, they have dominance in the areas, and that's scarce. Companies and some companies will never go to Amazon for that reason. Or some people never go to Google for other reasons. I know people who are in the ad tech. This is a black and we're not. We're not going to Google. So again, it is what it is. But this idea of vertical specialization relevant in super >>forts, I want to bring to point out to sessions that are going on today on great points. I'm glad you asked that question. One is Alan. As he kicks off at 1 p.m. Eastern time in the transformation track, he's gonna talk a lot about the coming power of ecosystems and and we've talked about this a lot. That that that to compete with Amazon, Google Azure, you've gotta have some kind of specialization and vertical specialization is a good one. But of course, you see in the big Big three also get into that. But so he's talking at one o'clock and then it at 3 36 PM You know this times are strange, but e can explain that later Hillary Hunter is talking about she's the CTO IBM I B M's ah Financial Cloud, which is another really good example of specifying vertical requirements and serving. You know, an audience subject. I think you have some thoughts on this. >>Actually, I lost my thought. E >>think the other piece of that is data. I mean, to the extent that you could build an ecosystem coming back to Alan Nancy's premise around data that >>billions of dollars in >>their day there's billions of dollars and that's the title of the session. But we did the trillion dollar baby post with Jazzy and said Cloud is gonna be a trillion dollars right? >>And and the point of Alan Answer session is he's thinking from an individual firm. Forget the millions that you're gonna save shifting to the cloud on cost. There's billions in ecosystems and operating models. That's >>absolutely the business value. Now going back to my half stack full stack developer, is the business value. I've been talking about this on the clubhouses a lot this past month is for the entrepreneurs out there the the activity in the business value. That's the new the new intellectual property is the business logic, right? So if you could see innovations in how work streams and workflow is gonna be a configured differently, you have now large scale cloud specialization with data, you can move quickly and take territory. That's much different scenario than a decade ago, >>at the point I was trying to make earlier was which I know I remember, is that that having the horizontal sort of features is very important, as compared to having vertical focus. You know, you're you're more healthcare focused like you. You have that sort of needs, if you will, and you and our auto or financials and stuff like that. What Google is trying to do, I think that's it. That's a good thing. Do cook up the reference architectures, but it's a bad thing in a way that you drive drive away some developers who are most of the developers at 80 plus percent, developers are horizontal like you. Look at the look into the psyche of a developer like you move from company to company. And only few developers will say I will stay only in health care, right? So I will only stay in order or something of that, right? So they you have to have these horizontal capabilities which can be applied anywhere on then. On top >>of that, I think that's true. Sorry, but I'll take a little bit different. Take on that. I would say yes, that's true. But remember, remember the old school application developer Someone was just called in Application developer. All they did was develop applications, right? They pick the framework, they did it right? So I think we're going to see more of that is just now mawr of Under the Covers developers. You've got mawr suffer defined networking and software, defined storage servers and cloud kubernetes. And it's kind of like under the hood. But you got your, you know, classic application developer. I think you're gonna see him. A lot of that come back in a way that's like I don't care about anything else. And that's the promise of cloud infrastructure is code. So I think this both. >>Hey, I worked. >>I worked at people solved and and I still today I say into into this context, I say E r P s are the ultimate low code. No code sort of thing is right. And what the problem is, they couldn't evolve. They couldn't make it. Lightweight, right? Eso um I used to write applications with drag and drop, you know, stuff. Right? But But I was miserable as a developer. I didn't Didn't want to be in the applications division off PeopleSoft. I wanted to be on the tools division. There were two divisions in most of these big companies ASAP. Oracle. Uh, like companies that divisions right? One is the cooking up the tools. One is cooking up the applications. The basketball was always gonna go to the tooling. Hey, >>guys, I'm sorry. We're almost out of time. I always wanted to t some of the sections of the day. First of all, we got Holder Mueller coming on at lunch for a power half hour. Um, you'll you'll notice when you go back to the home page. You'll notice that calendar, that linear clock that we talked about that start times are kind of weird like, for instance, an appendix coming on at 1 24. And that's because these air prerecorded assets and rather than having a bunch of dead air, we're just streaming one to the other. So so she's gonna talk about people, process and technology. We got Kathy Southwick, whose uh, Silicon Valley CEO Dan Sheehan was the CEO of Dunkin Brands and and he was actually the c 00 So it's C A CEO connecting the dots to the business. Daniel Dienes is the CEO of you I path. He's coming on a 2:47 p.m. East Coast time one of the hottest companies, probably the fastest growing software company in history. We got a guy from Bain coming on Dave Humphrey, who invested $750 million in Nutanix. He'll explain why and then, ironically, Dheeraj Pandey stew, Minuteman. Our friend interviewed him. That's 3 35. 1 of the sessions are most excited about today is John McD agony at 403 p. M. East Coast time, she's gonna talk about how to fix broken data architectures, really forward thinking stuff. And then that's the So that's the transformation track on the future of cloud track. We start off with the Big Three Milan Thompson Bukovec. At one oclock, she runs a W s storage business. Then I mentioned gig therapy wrath at 1. 30. He runs Azure is analytics. Business is awesome. Paul Dillon then talks about, um, IDs Avery at 1 59. And then our friends to, um, talks about interview Simon Crosby. I think I think that's it. I think we're going on to our next session. All right, so keep it right there. Thanks for watching the Cuban cloud. Uh huh.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by AWS Worldwide Public sector Welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of eight of us Reinvent 2020 Virtual. This is the Cube virtual. I'm your host, John Ferrier. We are the Cube virtual. This year not only were in person but because of the pandemic. We're doing the remote interviews, doing the live coverage over the past couple weeks. We'll be covering it in depth. My next guest is Lynn Martin, vice president of government education. Health care for VM Ware Public Sector Thank you for coming on the Q. As part of the public sector day. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks, John. It's my pleasure to be with you to that >>great to see last time you're on the Cube. We were in person and D. C is part of the Public Sector Summit, which is the reinvent for public sector is what I call it Theresa's big event. Teresa Carlson, who runs a U. S public sector. You guys a friend. You've been working together the partnership between VM where AWS has been so strong going back to 2016. I'll never forget. When I interviewed Pat and Andy, A lot of skeptics were like VM Ware E W s turned out to be great. Move at many levels. You're in the field for VM Ware driving the business. What's up? What's the update? >>So a couple exciting things. The partnership has been going great. Ah, lot of transformation work and co innovation between the two companies from the engineering side. And, as you mentioned, great a t the Pat Andy level on Ben. When you take it down to the field, support our government education, healthcare, customers. Great partnership with Theresa and her team. They've done a fabulous job, really, being at the forefront of the cloud transformation across those markets and our partnership together. No, it's pretty exciting. We have a lot of new product announced. It's coming out around our government. Go to market means jointly. So it's been a busy time with co vid and a lot of opportunity for both companies to really market differentiators for some of the challenges that are unique customers face >>when I want to ask you a little bit more on that piece because I know it's been interesting with the pandemic. You guys have had a nice overlay with 80. Invest with Teresa's organization obviously from it from a customer standpoint, Nice fit. Okay. Also, with the pandemic, we're seeing customers certainly doing more modern development. That's a big theme of reinvent also for VM World a few months ago as well. But the operator side of the I t piece is gonna be completely changed. I've been doing some reporting and stories around how not just the modern app site, but the I T portion operating these environments. It's hard in pant with the pandemic, so you start to see that operator meets software meets Cloud kind of world. Can you give your perspective of how that's impacted with the pandemic? Because it seems to have accelerated both i t operations in public sector and modern development of new APS and new surge. So, uh, interesting thoughts. I'd love to get your perspective. >>Yes. So I would say that when you kind of look back at the beginning of 2020 I don't think any of us envisioned quite what we were gonna be facing and what our customers, particularly in public and health care you know have faced. So we have customers jointly that are on the forefront of either providing civil services, national security, education to the students or commercial health care first responders right on the front line around patient care. And what I would say, the observation we had really early on in March was the acceleration of the digital transformation across all of those sectors. So lots of discussions have been taking place, and there were a lot of projects in place that would take a couple of years to probably implement. And I think what occurred with Covic is you really have to accelerate how you were gonna provide those civil services or patient care or education and parts of that digital transformation. I think we're taking for granted. So if you think of, like virtual desktop technology in the education space or, you know, SD when and network capability be of the cloud force for health care providers and things of that nature. So I think the portion played a bigger part in the country, responded to cove it in ensuring that we could do the things we needed to do virtually and quickly and out enabled, you know, speed to market and then infrastructure from companies like VM Ware teamed with an Amazon. We allow the acceleration for that journey. >>You know, the old expression. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Um, education and healthcare in particular really were impacted. They had a pressure points t do differently, things faster e education. We know what's going on there and health care with the pandemic. How how are you managing through this? Because, you know, you had a lot of business in flight prior before the pandemic. Now during and you've got maybe some visibility toe what growth looks like Post pandemic. You still got demand. So how are you managing it with from your perspective, your team? What's it like? How how are you as a leader dealing with this? But it's not like it's slowing down for you. It's increasing in >>demand. Yes, so are our segment was kind of on the forefront within bm where globally, um, we started working with different state, local governments and the federal government ahead of the close downs. You know, in one of the major large metropolitan cities, there were over a billion students that had to be able to be educated virtually and there were challenges around network capability, device capability, all kinds of things. So we've had a lot, a lot of activity and as a company. But you know, my segment, how to really work with corporate to kind of bend, how we do business business process rules as well, to be able to respond quickly and to be agile for our clients and provide different ways to support the needs of those customers. So then they could provide the kind of civil services that the country, you know, counts on them to dio. So I think from the internal perspective, in customer facing, we were able to flex, flex and move very quickly and then internally, within the organization as well. I would say, You know, February to June was almost a blur, were busy on weekend calls and things like that, dealing with all different kinds of situations and the organization as a whole. We were ableto flex and work remotely very quickly. I mean, we just used our own technology and literally upon the shutdown. The only difference is where you were working from, but all the tools, infrastructure and things we had were already in place. So anything from there and then as a leader, the third element, all out is kind of the human element. I think it's it's all an opportunity to connect our teams a little bit. Mawr. You know, you have to put more effort virtually more, all hands because more one on ones and kind of also adapt toe how they're dealing with the different personal things of educating their own Children and their family or caring with elders different types of situations as well. >>It's not business as usual, certainly, but it's, you know, challenging great leadership insight there. Thank you for sharing that. I wanna get back to the cloud impact I did. An interview is part of Amazon's Public Sector Awards program a few months ago or in late spring. Roughly, Um, there was a use case with the center and the Canada government, and the guy was kind of, uh, didn't wanna take sidewall Amazon. I'm not gonna be a spokesperson for Amazon. He ended up when the pandemic hit. He was so big fan of AWS and Cloud connectors example because he was skeptical, but he saw the benefit to speed can you give some examples of customers that you're working with that were getting immediate benefits from cloud in the pandemic. That literally made a big difference in what they did because you're seeing people highlight on, okay, just transmission. But people want to see examples. Can you share some examples where this is where cloud helped? It made a huge difference. And that's an example of what we're talking about here. >>Yes. So I would say, um, um example would be at M. D. Anderson Cancer Institute. Um, they had a need to really expand the connectivity off the facility to segregate patient care and ensure that patients that already, you know, had health issues were segregated from any other co vid patients. And very quickly we saw them scale and extend their data center in record time. I mean, things that traditionally would have taken years were done in months, you know, major accomplishments. In 30 days, a zai mentioned, you know, one of our large cities in the country had to really struggle with off 1.2 billion students in K through 12, many of which count on the school systems for, you know, their meals and things and how you deliver your virtual desktops in that environment. VMC on AWS for horizon is a great example that we saw across many state and local you know, entities in how they transform their education to those clients. Uh, and then the federal government. There's many examples, uh, you know, across some of the larger agencies as well, with BMC on AWS for both horizon and infrastructure as well. As you know, sometimes it wasn't one solution. They might have went a W s native for part vmc on AWS for part. And the combination of that really allows companies to come together in part to get things done very, very quickly. It's >>a great example of the VM Ware cloud on AWS success story. I think what's interesting and how I see you guys really doing well with Amazon. It will get to the partnership in a second. But I wanna call this out because you mentioned that earlier devices the network these air not usually associate with cloud usually clouds. You burst of the cloud clouds. Awesome. All these utility higher level services, Dev Ops Cloud native All goodness, But when you get down to what's going on the pandemic. It's the devices you're using. The desktops. It's the network working at home. How as much as that affected your team and your customers, Can you unpack that a little bit more? >>Yes. So what I would say on that is really when you look atyou out, you know the VMC on AWS offerings and you take it down to an example like the horizon platform horizon allows you with the V m c A W s power behind it to really present your virtual desktop on any device anywhere. And that allowed the education entities to be able to provide those curriculums to the students very quickly and, you know, not really have a big, disconnected downtime on how that was done. So I think you know, you're kind of taking cloud classic infrastructure that you reference and then layering in those unique use cases with the VMC on AWS offerings that then could be applied or telehealth. So you know, lots of examples across the health care industry with telehealth and deploying actually patient care via the M R solutions on BMC on aws is well, so it z really taking core. I t infrastructure layering on a software platform that then allows you to provide all those use cases, whether it be an NYPD or fire departments across the country or education entities or commercial patient care things of that nature as a second layer on top of that cloud infrastructure that you think of normally. >>Well, then I want to congratulate you and the team at VM. Where you guys doing? A great job. Like Teresa Carlson. You guys have a really good focus. Uh, you have a great understanding of how the public sector and commercial dynamics working with cybersecurity, going on all across there. And I just you guys there in space with them. You're doing stuff on the land and the ground station all across the public sector, and and they need faster solutions in the cloud. So congratulations. So I have to ask you, since we're here at reinvent, how is the relationship going? Um, where do you see it evolving? I'll see. We talked about the pressure of education, health care and other areas. I mean, case is gonna be re hall. That's gonna be a complete reinvention. Um, so a lot going on. What's supposed to give us the update. >>So I think that in general, you know the future off the public sector and healthcare space will never go backwards. And the acceleration that we've seen occur over 2020. You're gonna see that accelerate as we move forward. And I think the co innovation between Amazon and B M, where which are both innovative companies coming together to support those markets, I think we have more opportunity ahead of us then behind us. And I think when you look at just the great job Amazon has done in general, I was super excited to see Theresa pick up the health care sector. So we have a whole new space to work together on this year and really lots of exciting, innovative offerings to support both patient care and pharmaceuticals, life science and our payer community across the health care sector, as well as some of the work we've already been doing in the public sector. But given the dynamics in the future outlook of the industry, there's gonna require lots of innovation and different kinds of things to really partner together technically and, you know, aligning our go to market around primarily the customer needs. So I think what's very unique about our partnership in the public and healthcare space is we focus first on the customer needs and the mission of those customers and what they need to achieve. And both companies come to the table with, you know, incredible innovation around solutions to support that market. >>It's a great, great partnership, I gotta say, from a technology standpoint, after Raghu VM Ware when they did this, he's like It's a much deeper It's a real deal is not just the Barney deal is everyone kind of knows the old school, uh, phrases saying It's not really a deal. You guys have really integrated in the field on the customer activities. Strong final question for you You don't mind, um, here it reinvent. You know, people are remote. There's gonna be three weeks, a lot of live coverage. Cube Game day will be doing a lot of support and coverage. But for the audience watching this, what would you say is the most important story people should think about or, um, look at harder. I'm when it comes to cloud collision of public sector and what's gonna happen post pandemic because there's gonna be a new reality. There's gonna be growth strategies that will be in play. Some projects will be doubled down on some may not continue. What's your What's your advice to folks watching? What should they pay attention to this reinvent. >>So I think the number one thing is to really embrace the change going around you. And, you know, I think Amazon will be on the forefront of leading a lot of great innovation in that area. And it's really trying to be open minded about how you take advantage of the things that are coming out and be able to apply that into your infrastructure. So if you look across our customer base, you know there's lots of changes you mentioned. I don't think we'll ever go backwards. And those that will be able to move forward quicker are going to be the ones that embrace the change and really lead and drive that innovation within their organization in reinventing themselves through the kind of technology that a company like Amazon and beyond, where bring to the table >>great insight. Lynn And also there's a lot of great problems to solve and societal benefits a lot of need and you guys doing great work. Thanks for your leadership. And, uh, great conversation. Thank you. >>Thanks very much. >>Okay. Lynn Martin, head of vice president of Global public Sector Uh, government education Healthcare. Lynn Martin, the leader of VM Ware's public sector here in the Cube. I'm John Ferrier. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the >>Cube with digital >>coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, >>AWS and >>our community partners. >>Welcome back to the cubes ongoing coverage of this year's AWS reinvent. You know, normally we'd be in the middle of the San Sands Convention Center. We have two sets and 50,000 of our closest friends. We'd be deking out on cloud. Seems like a long time ago, but the show must go on. And it does. Joe Duffy is here. He's the co founder and CEO of Gloomy, and Justin Fits you is the vice president engineering for Cloud Engineering for snowflake. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to see you. >>It's good to be here, >>Joe. I love what you guys are doing. You know, leading your customers to the cloud and really attacking that I t labor problem that we've dealt with for years and years by playing a role in transforming what I would say is I t ops into cloud ups with programmable infra infrastructure practices. So take >>a >>moment to tell us. Why did you and your co founder start the company how you got it off the ground? People are always interested in how you got it funded. You got a couple of Seattle VCs, Madrona and Tola involved. Any a just got involved. So congrats on that. What's the story of your company? >>Yeah. So my background and my co founder Eric's background. You know, we spent multiple decades at Microsoft just really obsessing over developer platforms and productivity and trying to make you know developers lives as as as as productive as possible. You know, help them harness the power of software >>toe create, >>you know, innovative new applications and really spent time on technologies like Visual Studio and Ahmed. And and, you know, it really struck us that the cloud is changing everything about how we develop software. And yet from our perspective, coming from developer landed had almost changed nothing. You know, most of our customers were still, you know, developing software like they did 15 years ago, where it was a typical enter your application, they'd kind of write the code and then go to their I t team and say, Hey, we need to run this somewhere. Can you provisioned a few virtual machines? Can you prevision You know, maybe a database or two and and And so And then we went and talked Thio, you know, infrastructure teams and found out Hey, you know, folks were really toiling away with tools that air a pale in comparison when it comes to the productivity that we we were accustomed Thio on the developer side. And then frequently we heard from leaders that there were silos between the organizations. They couldn't build things quickly enough. They couldn't move quickly enough in cloud Native and the new public cloud capabilities just really were pushed pushing on that, really, you know. But the most innovative companies we kept hearing were the ones who figured this out, who really figured out how to move faster in the cloud. Companies like Snowflake really are leveraging the cloud toe transform entire businesses. You look at uber lyft Airbnb, these companies that really harnessed the cloud toe not just from a technical productivity standpoint, but really transform the business. Eh? So that was the opportunity that we saw Kalemie was Let's take a step back. We call this cloud engineering. Let's imagine a world where every developers, a cloud developer and infrastructure teams are enabling that new way of building. >>Great. So you mentioned cloud engineering. Now, Justin, you've done a bit a bit of cloud engineering yourself in your day. You know, the Cube has been following Snowflake very closely since it launched really mid last decade. And we've we've covered your novel, architectural approach and your cloud only mantra. Talk about that. And have there been any changes in how you're thinking about cloud adoption and how that's as that's increased and you've seen new use cases emerged. >>Yeah, so I think, you know, obviously Snowflake was was built on the foundation of cloud first, and in fact, cloud Onley are only platform and only infrastructure is is based on the cloud. But, you know, for us, it was absolutely key on. How do you develop a platform and a product that's completely elastic? Lee, scalable on drily, really allows for kind of the paper use and paper consumption model. We didn't really it would be very difficult for us to offer this and Thio offer a product in this way. On def, you start to think about kind of from a cloud engineering perspective. Um, we don't have the typical network engineers. A typical data center engineers that you that you might have seen previously. Instead, we're shifting our model in our what we do include engineering away from kind of an operations model or even devotes model towards the software engineering model. E. I think that's the That's the big shift to cloud engineering is that we're looking to hire and we're building a team of software engineers to build systems and platforms and and tooling Thio have the system self managed as much as possible, and it changes to our infrastructure that we look at any changes in our platform are all through, commits and and deployed via pipelines, as opposed to having Operator's log on and make these changes. And so that's the shift that I think we're seeing. And that's to kind of match the overall stuff like Model of Cloud, first and on and where the product is like just going. >>Like you said in cloud only, Justin, you use Pollux me in your own engineering and also in your product externally. Is that correct? And how so? >>Yeah, we actually use it in, specifically and, um, in our platform, in order to kind of deployed to manage and, uh, just operate a kind of our overall cloud infrastructure. We specifically use it more focused on the good days and and continue ization side of things. But that use cases kind of rapidly expanding across the organization. >>So I'm curious of what do you guys we're seeing in the market place? Joe, you know, thinking about cloud broadly, What's the impact that you're seeing on businesses? Who are the big players that you see out there? Maybe you could talk about some of the differentiation that you've noticed. >>Yeah, I think this notion of plot engineering, you know, even 3.5 years ago when we got started was in its infancy. You know, we definitely saw that. Hey, you know, the world is moving and shifting left, you know, it's just was saying and really, people are looking for new ways to empower developers, but that empowerment has to come with guard rails, right? And so what we're seeing is oftentimes, teams are now modernizing their entire platform infrastructure platform, and they're looking to technologies like kubernetes to do that. But increasingly, you know, aws, Azure gp. You know, when we started, um, there weren't any great managed kubernetes clusters. And now today, fast forward. You know Onley 3.5 years and and many of our customers are using flew me to help them get up and running with the chaos in AWS, for example, you look at a lot of folks transforming on Prem as well again many times, adopting kubernetes is sort of a if they intend to stay on Prem. You know, Thio, at least modernize their approach to application infrastructure delivery. That's where Pollux me really can help. It could be a bridge. Thio hate from on Prem to the public cloud. There's certainly a lot of folks doing great work in the space, you know, I think VM Ware has really kind of emerged as sort of vanguard thought leader in this in this space, especially with, you know, hep dio and now kind of pivotal joining the story. We see other, you know, great companies like hash in court, for we're doing good work in this space. Um, certainly we integrate with a lot of their technologies on you. Combine those with the public cloud providers. There's also a lot of just smaller startups in the space which you know, strikes in my heart. I love I love supporting the startup ecosystem. You know, whether that's for cell or net lif I or server list. You know, really trying to help developers harness more of the cloud. I think that's an emerging trend that we're gonna see accelerating in the coming years. >>Yeah. Thank you. You've mentioned a number of interesting emerging tools companies in the ecosystem. I mean, Justin talked about kubernetes. Are there other tooling that you're using that that might be, you know, some of your customers might like toe to know about. >>Yeah, I think so. So one thing I wanted to actually follow up with what Joe said here is is around kind of the multi cloud nature of what we do is is the tools, like gloomy are critical for us to be able to abstract away specific cloud provider AP ice and such and so given Snowflake operates on all three major public clouds and offers a seamless experience amongst all three of them. We have to have something that abstracts some of that complexity and some of those technical details away. Andi, that's why I kind of blew me, made sense in in this case and has helped us kind of achieved that cloud neutrality piece. Um, in terms of other tools that that you're thinking that we're talking about, I think Bellamy is doing a great job kind of on some of these on some of the kind of that interaction and infrastructure and sensation. But we're looking for tooling to kind of look for the overall workflow automation piece on orchestration. So what sits on top of say, you're using intervals using terra form? You may be using Polonia's well, but what kind of orchestrates all these pieces together? Onda, How do you kind of build workflow automation? And I think there's a lot of companies and technology providers that air starting up in this area to kind of stitch all these pieces together so that you kind of have a seamless kind of work flow across across your infrastructure. >>Got it. So, Joe, I'm kind of curious you talked a little bit about your background at Microsoft, and you're even a TMC where you're helping, you know, people manage Luns. It was a sort of skill set that is not in high demand today. Early. Shouldn't be people really need to transform? I've said that a lot in the queue, but But, you know, maybe talk a little bit about the experiences that you've had in the past that informed the direction that Pollux me is taking and where you see it going specifically. I mean, I've been talking a lot about the next decade of cloud is not gonna be the same as the last decade of the cloud. How did you How do you see it? >>Yeah, I think I recognize a clear trend, you know, in with cloud computing. Uh, you know, back I can't remember 13 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, When, when When the Azure project started. You know Dave Cutler, who actually founded the anti project at Microsoft, Actually, was was one of the first engineers that started Azure. And he called it a cloud operating system. And, you know, I think that vision of hey, the cloud is the new operating system is something that we're still just chipping away at. And that was that was a clear trend, you know, having seen these transformations in the past, you know the shift from, you know, dos to windows from windows to mobile Thio, client server thio now the cloud every step of the way. We always transform the way we build applications. And I think where we're at now is horse, really in the midst of a transition that I think we'll look back. You never know when it's happening right? But you can always look back in hindsight and see that it did happen. And I think the trend that we're going through now with service meshes and just, you know, micro services and service list is really we're building distributed applications. These clouds made of applications, they're distributed applications. And that was the trend that I, I recognized, also recognizes another trend, which is, you know, we spent 30 years building great tools. You know, I d s test frameworks sharing and reuse package managers. We figured out static analysis and how to fix security problems in this in in programming languages that we've got today. Let's not go rebuild all that. Let's leverage that, and and so that's what Eric and I said they want, you know, Let's stand on the shoulders of giants. Let's leverage all this good work that has come before us. Let's just apply that to the infrastructure domain and really try toe smooth things out. Give us a new sort of level playing field to build on. From here is we go forward and I'm excited that Parliament gives us that foundation that we can now build on top of >>Great and Justin, of course, were covered. Aws reinvent you guys. It was kind of your your first platform. It's your largest, the largest component of your business. And I have been saying, Ah lot that, you know the early days of cloud was about infrastructure last 32 throw in some database. But really, there's a new workload that's emerging. And you guys are at the heart of that where people are putting governed data giving access to that data, making it secure, uh, sharing that data across an ecosystem so that new workload is really driving new innovation. I wonder how you see that what you see the next half a decade or decades looking like in terms of innovation? >>Yeah, I think I think it za valid point, which is, um, it's less about infrastructure and more about the services that you're providing with that infrastructure. And what what value are you able to add and So I think that's it, Snowflake. The thing that we're really focused on, which is abstract away, all these tunes and all these knobs and such, and the how much remember you have on a specific and a piece of infrastructure or describes or anything like that. So what's the business value? And how can we present that business value in a uniform way, regardless of kind of the underlying service provider on baby to a different class of business users, someone who wants a low data and just two analysts against that they really don't want to understand what's happening underneath. And I think that's that's where this club engineering piece comes in. Um, and what my team is doing is really focused on How do we abstract away that kind of lower level infrastructure and scalability pieces and allow the application developers to develop this application that is providing business value in a transparent and seamless way and in elastic way such that we can scale up and down we can. We have the ability, obviously, to replicate both within regions and clouds, but also across different clouds. So from a business resiliency and and up time point of view. That's that's something that's been really important. Um, and I think also how do we security is? Becoming is obviously a huge, huge importance, given the classifications type of day that people are putting within our platform. So how are we able Thio ensure that there is a pipeline where developers have reviews and commits of any kind of changes going into the system and their arm's length away, and could be fully audited for various clients and regular regulatory needs? And that's something that kind of this suffer engineering cloud engineering concept has really helped develop and allowed us Thio obviously be successful with various different types of industries. >>Joe, we're almost out of time. I wonder if you could bring us home. I mean, some of the things Justin was talking about I mean, I definitely see a lot of potential disruption coming from the world of developers. Uh, he was talking. He was talking about consumption models different than many of the SAS pricing models. And how do you How do you see it? Developers air kind of the really the new source of innovation. Your final thoughts. >>Yeah. I think we're democratizing access to the cloud for everybody. I think you know it's not just about developers, but it's It's really all engineers of all backgrounds, its developers, its infrastructure engineers, its operations engineers, its security engineers. You know, Justin's mentioning compliance and security. These air really critical elements of how we deliver software into the cloud. So I think you know what you're going to see is you're gonna see a lot of new, compelling experiences built thanks to cloud capabilities. You know, the fact that you've got a I and M l and all these infinitely scalable data services like snowflake and, you know, just an arm's length away that you can use as building blocks in your applications. You know, application developers love that. You know, if we can just empower them to run fast, they will run fast, and we'll build great applications. And infrastructure teams and security engineers will be central to enabling that that new future. I think you also see that you know infrastructure and cloud services will become accessible to an entirely new audience. You know, kids graduating from college, they understand Java script. They understand python now they can really just harness the cloud to build amazing new experiences. So I think we're still, you know, still early days on the transition to the cloud. I know where many years on the journey, but we've got many, many years, you know, in our future. And it's very exciting. >>Well, thank you, guys, Joe and Justin. I really appreciate it. Congratulations on your respective success. I know is Joe said you got a lot more work to do, but I really appreciate you coming on the Cube. >>Awesome. Thank you. You're >>welcome. All right, so we're here covering reinvent 2020. The virtual edition. Keep it right there for more great content. Were unpacking the cloud and looking to the future. You're watching the cube?

>>on >>the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Okay. Welcome back, everyone. That's the cubes. Live coverage here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John for your host with David Lantana in Boston. Massachusetts. Uh, we got a great panel here. Analysts just gonna break it down. Keynote analysis. Day one, we got Ah, longtime Web services expert analyst Diane Hinchcliffe, principal researcher at N V. P. It constantly research, but he goes way back. Dan, I remember, uh, 2000 and one time frame you and I'm >>reading Last time you and I hang out with Michael Arrington's house back in the TechCrunch days >>back when, you know you were on this was Web services. I mean, that's always, uh, serves on the architectures. They called it back then. This was the beginning. This really was the catalyst of cloud. If you think about virtualization and Web services in that era, that really spawned where we are today so great to >>have you on as an Amazon got their start saying that everyone could get whatever they want to on a P. I now right, >>all right? Well, we've been riding this wave. Certainly it's cotton now more clear for the mainstream America. And I quoted you in my story, uh, on Andy Jassy when I had my one on one with them because I saw your talk with star Bit of the weekend and in the way you kicked it off was the Pandemic four was forced upon everybody, which is true, and that caught my attention was very notable because you talked to a lot of C E. O s. Does jazz sees pitch resonate with them? In your opinion, what's your take on on that on that posture? Because we heard, hey, you know, get busy building or you're dying, right? So get busy building. That's what >>I thought that was a good message. But I mean on and certainly I saw tweets and said, Hey, he's just he's just directly talking to the CEO. But if you ask me, he's still talking to the CTO, right? The technology officer who's got a feels all this technology and bend it into the shape that it will serve the business. You talk to a CEO who wants is trying to get on the cloud their biggest challenges. I know I need armies of people who know all these brand new services. You saw the development velocity of all the things that they announced and things they re emphasized there was There was a lot of things that were bringing back again because they have so many things that they're offering to the public. But the developer skills or not, they're the partner skills are not there. So you talked to CEO, says All right, I buy in and and I have had to transform overnight because of the pandemic, my customers have moved, my workers have moved on, and I have to like, you know, redirect all my I t Overnight and Cloud is the best way to do that. Where's my where's all the skills for the training programs, the department programs that allow me to get access to large amounts of talent? Those are the types of things that the CEO is concerned about is from an operational perspective. We didn't hear anything about, like a sales force type trailhead where we're going to democratize cloud skills to the very far end of your organization. >>Yeah, they're just kind of scratching the service. They didn't mention that, you know, far Gates away to get into server list. I mean, this is ultimately the challenge Dave and Deena like, don't get your thoughts on this because I was talking Teoh a big time CTO and a big time see so and that perspectives were interesting. And here's the Here's the Here's what I want you to react Thio the sea level Say everything is gonna be a service. Otherwise we're gonna be extinct. Okay, that's true. I buy that narrative, Okay, Make it as a service. That's why not use it. And then they go to the C t. And they say, implement, They go Well, it's not that easy. So automation becomes a big thing. And then so there's this debate. Automate, automate, automate. And then everything becomes a service. Is it the cart before the horse? So is automation. It's the cart before the horse, for everything is a service. What do you guys think about that? >>We'll see. I mean, CEO is to Diane's point, are highly risk averse and they like services. And those services generally are highly customized. And I think the tell in the bevy of announcements the buffet have announces that we heard today was in the marketplace what you guys thought of this or if you caught this. But there was a discussion about curated professional services that were tied to software, and there were classic PDM services. But they were very, you know, tight eso sort of off the shelf professional services, and that's kind of how Amazon plays it. And they were designed to be either self serve. It's a Diane's point. Skill sets aren't necessarily there or third parties, not directly from Amazon. So that's a gap that Amazon's got too close. I mean, you talk about all the time without post installations, you know, going on Prem. You know who's gonna support and service those things. You know, that's a that's a white space right now. I think >>e think we're still reading the tea leaves on the announcements. But there was one announcement that was, I thought really important. And that was this VM Ware cloud for a W s. It says, Let's take your VM ware skills, which you've honed and and cultivated and built a talent base inside your organization to run VMS and let's make that work for a W s. So I thought the VM Ware cloud for a W s announcement was key. It was a sleeper. It didn't spend a lot of time on it. But the CEO ears are gonna perk up and say, Wait, I can use native born skills. I already have to go out to the cloud So I didn't think that they did have 11 announcement I thought was compelling in that >>in the spending data shows of VM Ware Cloud on AWS is really gaining momentum by the way, As you see in that open shift So you see in that hybrid zone really picking up. And we heard that from AWS today. John, you and I talked about it at the open I produces in >>Yeah, I want to double down on that point you made because I want to get your thoughts on this a Z analyst because you know, the VM ware is also tell. Sign to what I'm seeing as operating and developing Dev ops as they be called back in the day. But you gotta operate, i t. And if Jassy wants to go after this next tier of spend on premise and edge. He's gotta win the global i t posture game. He's gotta win hybrid. He's got to get there faster to your point. You gotta operate. It's not just develop on it. So you have a development environment. You have operational environment. I think the VM Ware thing that's interesting, cause it's a nice clean hand in glove. VM Ware's got operators who operate I t. And they're using Amazon to develop, but they work together. There's no real conflict like everyone predicted. So is that the tell sign is the operational side. The challenge? The Dev, How does Amazon get that global I t formula down? Is it the VM Ware partnership? >>I think part of it is there, finally learning to say that the leverage that the vast pool of operational data they have on their literally watching millions of organizations run all the different services they should know a lot and I say made that point today, he said, Well, people ask us all the time. You must have all these insights about when things were going right or wrong. Can you just tell us? And so I think the announcement around the Dev ops guru was very significant, also saying you don't necessarily have to again teach all your staff every in and out about how to monitor every aspect of all these new services that are much more powerful for your business. But you don't yet know how to manage, especially at scale. So the Dev Ops guru is gonna basically give a dashboard that says, based on everything that we've known in the past, we could give you insights, operational insights you can act on right away. And so I think that is again a tool that could be put in place on the operational side. Right. So b m where for cloud gives you migration ability, uh, of existing skills and workloads. And then the Dev Ops crew, if it turns out to be everything they say it is, could be a really panacea for unlocking the maturity curve that these operators have to climb >>on. AWS is in the business now of solving a lot of the problems that it sort of helped create. So you look at, for instance, you look at the sage maker Data Wrangler trying to simplify data workloads. The data pipeline in the cloud is very very complex and so they could get paid for helping simplify that. So that's a wonderful, virtuous circle. We've seen it before. >>Yeah. I mean, you have a lot of real time contact lens you've got, um, quick site. I mean, they have to kind of match the features. And And I want to get your guys thoughts on on hybrid because I think, you know, I'm still stuck on this, Okay? They won the as path and their innovations Great. The custom chips I buy that machine learning all awesome. So from the classic cloud I as infrastructure and platform as a service business looking good. Now, if you're thinking global, I t I just don't just not connecting the dots there. See Outpost? What's riel today for Amazon? Can you guys share E? I mean, if you were watching this keynote your head explode because you've got so many announcements. What's actually going on if you're looking at this is the CEO. >>So the challenge you have is the CEO. Is that your you have 10, 20 or 30 or more years of legacy hardware, including mainframes, right. Like so big insurance companies don't use mainframe because their claims systems have been developed in their very risk averse about changing them. Do you have to make all of this work together? Like, you know, we see IBM and Redhead are actually, you know, chasing that mainframe. Which angle, which is gonna die out where Amazon, I think is smart is saying, Look, we understand that container is gonna be the model container orchestration is gonna be how I t goes forward. The CEO is now buy into that. Last year, I was still saying, Are we gonna be able to understand? Understand? Kubernetes is the regular average i t person, which are not, you know, Google or Facebook level engineers Are there gonna be able to do do containers? And so we see the open sourcing of of the AWS is, uh, kubernetes, uh, server on. We see plenty of container options. That's how organizations could build cloud native internally. And when they're ready to go outside because we're gonna move, they're gonna move many times slower than a cloud native company to go outside. Everything is ready there. Um, I like what I'm seeing without posts. I like what I'm seeing with the hybrid options. The VM ware for cloud. They're building a pathway that says you can do real cloud. And I think the big announcement that was that. That s a really, uh, spend time on which is that PCs for everywhere. Um, a saying you're gonna be able to put Amazon services are compute services anywhere. You need it, e think that's a smart message. And that allows people to say I could eventually get toe one model to get my arms around this over time >>day. What does that mean for the numbers? I know you do a lot of research on spend customer data. Um, CEO is clearly no. This is gonna be the world's never go back to the same way it was. They certainly will accelerate cloud toe. What level depends upon where they are in their truth, as Jassy says. But >>what does >>the numbers look at? Because you're looking at the data you got Microsoft, You got Amazon. What's the customer spend look like where they're gonna be spending? >>Well, so a couple things one is that when you strip out the the SAS portion of both Google and Azure, you know, as we know, I asked him pass A W S is the leader, but there's no question that Microsoft is catching up. Says that we were talking about earlier. Uh, it's the law of large numbers Just to give you a sense Amazon this year we'll add. Q four is not done yet, but they'll add 10 billion over last year. And Jesse sort of alluded to that. They do that in 12 months. You know, uh, azure will add close to nine billion this year of incremental revenue. Google much, much smaller. And so So that's, you know, just seeing, uh, as you really catch up there for sure, you know, closing that gap. But still Amazon's got the lead. The other thing I would say is die on you and I were talking about this Is that you know Google is starting. Thio do a little bit better. People love their analytics. They love the built in machine learning things like like big query. And you know, even though they're much, much smaller there, another hedge people don't necessarily want to goto Microsoft unless they're Microsoft Shop. Google gives them that alternative, and that's been a bit of a tailwind for Google. Although I would say again, looking at the numbers. If I look back at where Azure and AWS were at this point where Google is with a few billion dollars in cloud the growth rates, I'd like to see Google growing a little faster. Maybe there's a covert factor there. >>Diane. I want to get your thoughts on this transition. Microsoft Oracle competition Um, Jesse knows he's got a deal with the elite Salesforce's out there. Oracle, Microsoft. Microsoft used to be the innovator. They had the they had the phrase embracing extend back in the day. Now Amazon's embracing and extending, but they gotta go through Oracle and Microsoft if they wanna win the enterprise on premise business and everybody else. Um, eso welcome to the party like Amazon. You What's your take on them versus Microsoft? Calling them out on sequel server licensing practices almost thrown him under the bus big time. >>Well, I think that's you know, we saw the evidence today that they're actually taking aim at Microsoft now. So Babel Fish, which allows you to run Microsoft sequel server workloads directly on Aurora. Uh, that that is what I call the escape pod that gives organizations an easy way That isn't Will parliament to redesign and re architect their applications to say, Just come over to AWS, right? We'll give you a better deal. But I think you've got to see Amazon have, um, or comprehensive sales plan to go into the C. E. O s. Go after the big deals and say, You know, we want to say the whole cloud suite, we have a stack that's unbeatable. You see our velocities, you know, best in class. Arguably against Microsoft is the big challenger, but we'll beat you on on a total cost of ownership. You know, your final bill. At the end of the day, we could we commit to being less than our competitors. Things like that will get the attention. But, you know, uh, Amazon is not known for cutting customized deals. Actually, even frankly, I'm hearing from very CEO is a very large, like Fortune 20 companies. They have very little wiggle room with Microsoft's anybody who's willing to go to the big enterprise and create custom deals. So if you build a sales team that could do that, you have a real shot and saying getting into the CEO's office and saying, You know, we want to move all the I t over and I'm seeing Microsoft getting winds like that. I'm not yet seeing Amazon and they're just gonna have to build a specialized sales team that go up against those guys and migration tools like we saw with Babel fish that says, If you want to come, we can get you over here pretty quick. >>I want to chime in on Oracle to John. I do. I think this is a blind spot somewhat for AWS, Oracle and mainframes. Jesse talks that talks like, Oh yeah, these people, they wanna get off there. And there's no question there are a number of folks that are unhappy, certainly with Oracle's licensing practices. But I talked to a lot of Oracle customers that are running the shops on Oracle database, and it's really good technology. It is world class for mission critical transaction workloads. Transaction workloads tend to be much, much smaller data set sizes, and so and Oracle's got, you know, decades built up, and so their their customers air locked in and and they're actually reasonably happy with the service levels they're getting out of Oracle. So yes, licensing is one thing, but there's more to the story and again, CEO or risk averse. To Diane's point, you're not just gonna chuck away your claim system. It's just a lot of custom code. And it's just the business case isn't there to move? >>Well, I mean, I would argue that Well, first of all, I see where you're coming from. But I would also argue that one of the things that Jesse laid out today that I thought was kind of a nuanced point was during the vertical section. I think it was under the manufacturing. He really laid out the case that I saw for startups and or innovation formula, that horizontal integration around the data. But then being vertically focused with the modern app with same machine learning. So what he was saying, and I don't think he did a good job doing it was you could disrupt horizontally in any industry. That's a that's a disruption formula, but you still could have that scale. That's cloud horizontal scalability, cloud. But the data gives you the ability to do both. I think bringing data together across multiple silos is critical, but having that machine learning in the vertical is the way you could different so horizontally. Scalable vertical specialization for the modern app, I think is a killer formula. And I think >>I think that's a I think it's a really strong point, John, and you're seeing that you're seeing in industries like, for instance, Amazon getting into grocery. And that's a data play. But I do like Thio following your point. The Contact Center solutions. I like the solutions play there and some of the stuff they're doing at the edge with i o T. The equipment optimization, the predictive maintenance, those air specialized solutions. I really like the solutions Focus, which several years ago, Amazon really didn't talk solution. So that's a positive sign, >>Diane, what do you think? The context And I think that was just such low hanging fruit for Amazon. Why not do it? You got the cloud scale. You got the Alexa knowledge, you know, got machine learning >>zone, that natural language processing maturity to allow them to actually monitor that. You know that that contact lens real time allows them a lot of supervisors to intervene them conversations before they go completely south, right? So allowing people to get inside decision windows they couldn't before. I think that's a really important capability. And that's a challenge with analytics in general. Is that generates form or insights than people know how to deal with? And it solutions like contact lens Real time? This is Let's make these insights actionable before it's broken. Let's give you the data to go and fix it before it even finishes breaking. And this is the whole predictive model is very powerful. >>Alright, guys, we got four minutes left. I wanted Segway and finish up with what was said in the keynote. That was a tell sign that gives us some direction of where the dots will connect in the future. There's a lot of stuff that was talked about that was, you know, follow on. That was meat on the bone from previous announcements. Where did Jassy layout? What? I would call the directional shift. Did you see anything particular that you said? Okay, that is solid. I mean, the zones was one I could see. What clearly is an edge piece. Where did you guys see? Um, some really good directional signaling from Jassy in terms of where they really go. Deal with start >>e I felt like Jassy basically said, Hey, we invented cloud. Even use these words we invented cloud and we're gonna define what hybrid looks like We're gonna bring our cloud model to the edge. And the data center just happens to be another edge point. And hey, I thought he laid down the gauntlet. E think it's a very powerful message. >>What do you think Jesse has been saying? That he laid out here, That's >>you laid out a very clear path to the edge that the Amazons marching to the edge. That's the next big frontier in the cloud. It isn't well defined. And that just like they defined cloud in the early days that they don't get out there and be the definitive leader in that space. Then they're gonna be the follower. I think so. We saw announcement after announcement around that you know, from the zones Thio the different options for outpost um, the five g announcement wavelength. All of those things says we're gonna go out to the very tippy edge is what I heard right out to your mobile devices. Right after the most obscure field applications imaginable. We're gonna have an appliance So we're gonna have a service that lets you put Amazon everywhere. And so I think the overarching message was This is a W s everywhere it z gonna go after 100% of I t. Eventually on DSO you can move to that. You know, this one stop shop? Um and you know, we saw him or more discussions about multi cloud, but it was interesting how they stand away from that. And this is what I think One area that they're going to continue to avoid. So it was interesting, >>John, I think I think the edges one by developers. And that's good news for Amazon. And good news for Microsoft. >>We'll see the facilities is gonna be good for me. I think guys, the big take away You guys nailed two of them there, but I think the other one was I think he's trying to speak to this new generation in a very professorial way. Talk about Clay Christensen was a professor at his business school at Harvard. We all know the book. Um, but there was this There was this a posture of speaking to the younger generation like hey, the old guy, the old that was running the mainframe. Wherever the old guys there, you could take over and run this. So it's kind of like more of a leadership preach of preaching like, Hey, it's okay to be cool and innovative, right now is the time to get in cloud. And the people who are blocking you are either holding on to what they built or too afraid to shift. Eso I think a Z we've seen through waves of innovation. You always have those people you know who are gonna stop that innovation. So I was very interesting. You mentioned that would service to the next generation. Um, compute. So he had that kind of posture. Interesting point. Yeah, just very, very preachy. >>E think he's talking to a group of people who also went through the through 2020 and they might be very risk averse and not bold anymore. And so, you know, I think that may have helped address that as well. >>All right, gentlemen, great stuff. Final word in the nutshell. Kena, What do you think about it in general? Will take away. >>Yeah, I I think we saw the continued product development intensity that Amazon is going to use to try and thrash the competition? Uh, the big vision. Um, you know, the real focus on developers first? Um and I think I t and C e O's second, I think before you could say they didn't really think about them too much at all. But now it's a close second. You know, I really liked what I saw, and I think it's It's the right move. I'd like to Seymour on on hybrid cloud migration than that, even when we saw them. >>All right, leave it there. Don. Thanks for coming on from this guest analyst segment. Appreciate you jumping in Cuba. Live. Thank you. >>Thanks. Alright. >>With acute virtual. I'm your host John per day Volonte here covering A W s live covering the keynote in real time State more for more coverage after the break