(funky music) >> Hi, and welcome to this CUBE conversation from theCUBE Studios in Paulo Alto, California. I'm your host, Sonia Tagare, and today we're joined by Leigh Phillips, president and CEO of SaverLife. Leigh, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi, thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. So, tell us more about SaverLife and how it works. >> So, SaverLife is a non-profit organization. We work nationally, but we're based here in San Francisco, and our mission is to help working American families to save money, and to invest in themselves and their futures. So, we do that by making it engaging, rewarding, and fun for people to start saving, and leveraging financial technology to achieve scale. >> And you were previously known as EARN, so what spurred this change in branding? >> Well, it was more than a change in branding. It was actually a big shift towards technology. So, EARN, or, now known as SaverLife, has actually been around since 2001. So, we are not new, we're not a starter, we've been helping low to moderate income working families to save money for a long time. But what we've realized in recent years is that the size of the problem is really quite significant. So, about half of American families don't have $400. So they couldn't cover a $400 expense without having to borrow the money. As EARN, we were helping a lot of families here in the Bay Area, but maybe, you know, a thousand families a year at our peak, and when you have half of America that's financially insecure, we knew that the solution that we had wasn't big enough. So, a couple of years ago, the organization decided to make a pivot, and to make a pivot towards technology. I came onboard about four and a half years ago to lead that transition, and we launched SaverLife as a product, and we reached a quarter of a million people in a couple years, and decided that the people know best, and that we would rebrand the whole organization as SaverLife. So that's kind of how that came about. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So who is SaverLife specifically targeting, and are there any specific challenges with this target group? >> So, SaverLife is specifically targeting working American families, mostly low income families, so as I mentioned, financial insecurity is a really big problem here in the US, and so we hear about that a lot in the news, about income inequality, wealth inequality, but one of the most troubling statistics came out from the Federal Reserve Bank, they found that about 42% of American families couldn't cover a $400 expense without going into debt. And that's an issue that affects lots of people in different ways. So, SaverLife is really targeting low income people who are struggling to save money, and need a little help getting started with that. So, most of our clients are women, they're all across the United States and on average make about 25 thousand dollars a year or less. >> So let's talk about the current savings crisis in America. According to Bankry, 20% of Americans don't have emergency savings, and only 18% of Americans can live off their savings for only six months. So, tell us more about this crisis, and what do you think the underlying issue is? >> Yeah, it's a great question, and there are many issues that play into that, and most of them are systemic, you know. The way that people are making money and the gap between income and expenses. So, what we see is that larger numbers of people don't have basic emergency savings, and what that means is that you can't get through a financial emergency, right? And so that can have a real downward spiral effect on your life. So imagine a scenario where you have to miss a day or two of work because your child is sick, and you don't have sick leave, like a lot of people don't. And so you miss a couple days of income. Or, you get a flat tire, or a parking ticket. Those are the types of things that can really spiral out of control, so then you lose income, then you can't pay your rent, you're at risk of eviction, and all of these other problems. So what we know is that having relatively small amount of money, so even just 250 to $750 in savings is found to reduce those risks of things like eviction, or falling behind on bills or utilities really significantly. So, we're focused on getting people to that point, so that they can get through challenges. So one of the big things that we see in our population, isn't just that wages are low, which remains a really big problem in the US right now, but that income is really inconsistent. So if you're making an hourly wage job, or maybe you work in retail, or you work in a warehouse, or something like that, and you drive for Uber, whatever the case may be, your money that's coming in, you're not getting the same amount of money in your paycheck every two weeks, right? Like many of us do. And in fact, for SaverLife clients, we're seeing these swings of income of around a thousand dollars a month, month over month. So sometimes you earn more and sometimes you earn less. So in that scenario, it's really hard to stay on track towards saving, because you don't know how much money's coming in, and then you're getting hit with all these increasing expenses at the same time. >> Right. And, can you tell us a little bit about how people can save their way to financial independence, is it viable, and how have challenges changed since the disappearance of defined-benefit retirement packages? >> Yeah, so, it is possible, but it's challenging, and, you know, I do think that we need to be aware of those kind of bigger issues, right? And to focus on helping people have more consistency in their income, and reducing some of those large expenses, whether or not in, the very obviously, the cost of housing, medical care, child care, transportation, all of these things that are really holding families back. But, you know, the good news is that people are remarkable. People are resilient, and people are remarkable. And I can share a couple of stories with you about that. So, at SaverLife we encourage people to save with prizes and cash rewards, right? So we make it really easy for people to get started. We also have a really supportive online community, so this is an issue that affects half of us, right? It's not something that people should be ashamed of. This is a really big and endemic issue here in the US. So we don't judge people, you know, it's all about starting small and starting today. So what we do at SaverLife is encourage people to save what they can when they can, and then we use behavioral economics to design programmatic interventions, so features on the website, that encourage people to save. So you can save five bucks a week if that's what works for you, and then you have the chance to win prizes. We also do a tax time quest, so that's happening right now. So, tax season is one of the times when people will get a larger infusion of cash, right? Particularly low income people, who maybe are qualified for tax credits and other benefits. So, what we do is encourage people to save a portion of that refund. So we ask people to start thinking about it before they get the refund, right? That's really clear, cause once the money is in, it's usually already spent. So we start talking to people in December, why don't you pledge to save your refund? You can win prizes just for pledging. And what we've found is that getting people to think about and commit to savings resulted, last year, in 80% of those people actually putting money into savings, and saving on average 16 hundred dollars from their tax refunds. >> Sonia: Wow. That's incredible. I love how you're incentivizing this whole savings thing, because, like, that essentially just makes people want to do it more. >> Leigh: Yeah. >> So, how should people bucket their savings? Should they have an emergency fund, a college fund, a retirement fund, how should they do that? >> So what we find at SaverLife is, or what we promote, is the idea that your money should really align with your values. And what's important to you, and what you want to achieve for yourself and for your family. So we don't tell people what to save for, and we don't tell them what to spend their money on, right? So, the biggest thing that people save for with the program is emergencies. So, really having that financial cushion, so, your car breaks down, or whatever the case may be, you can take care of it without going into debt, right? 'Cause that's the cycle that we want to avoid. But then we also see people really staying on track to save for big goals. And unsurprisingly, those are still the kind of goals that we talk about a lot in this country. So, an education, for yourself or for your children, and home ownership. Those remain, kind of the most popular things that people are focused on. >> So when it comes to prioritizing how you should save, like especially for someone who's just coming off that one paycheck away from the street, kind of space, how would you recommend prioritizing your savings? >> Leigh: So, we focus on building a savings habit. That's kind of the number one thing that we want people to really think about. So, putting money away as consistently as you can. It's really the behavior change that we're looking to see. And that's why we encourage people to make those small, incremental steps. But we also know that life has a lot of ups and downs, right? Particularly for people who are, as you say, living paycheck to paycheck. And so, what we see in our data is that families are often making two deposits in one withdrawal. So they're putting money away, and then they're using that money when they need it to get through emergencies. So that's kind of the first thing that we really look to do is, once you have that savings habit, and we know it's hard, you know, to do that, especially if you're not making a lot of money at this moment. But that's really, whatever you can save to get into that habit of putting it away. >> And do you think people are more at risk of being one paycheck away from being on the street, or one big bill away from being on the street? >> Leigh: Yeah, absolutely, many people are, you know? And especially here in the Bay Area, right? When life is extremely expensive, the cost of housing is out of control, and those other expenses that people have to deal with. And if you layer on top of that, that inconsistency in people's income, not making a regular amount of money, we're putting a lot of people in a very, very perilous situation. >> Sonia: Right. So let's talk about financial empowerment. You were leading the office of financial empowerment in the city and county of San Francisco. So, tell us more about financial empowerment and why it's important for people to have it. So, you know, I started out working for the city over there for about 11 years, before there was a thing called financial empowerment. And we started working on a range of programs. I worked for the San Francisco treasurer, and what we're really looking to do is use the influence of the city, and the municipal government to try to make a more fair and equitable financial system for people in San Francisco. So we started with programs like Bank On San Francisco, which was access to banking for everybody. So the idea that everyone should be able to have a safe and affordable place to keep their money, and to save their money. So that was a program we worked on there. And then we went on to launch the country's first universal children's savings program. So today, every single kindergartner, actually, today, every single elementary school student in San Francisco has a savings account open for them by the city and county, to encourage families to save early and often, for college. So when we think about financial empowerment, and how local government plays a role, we're really looking at a couple of things. So, do you have the ability to have a safe place to keep your money, and deposit your paycheck, pay your bills, in a way that's affordable, that doesn't have high fees, and is transparent, so that's the first thing. Do you have access to financial education and coaching if you need it? So the city now has quite a robust individual financial coaching and counseling program that they run. Are you able to save and invest in your future? So, save for college, save for home ownership, save for those big things, be a small business owner. And then the fourth thing is, are your assets protected? So are we protecting you from predatory practices that can deplete your wealth? >> And why did you decide to go from the city, from a public organization to a more private organization, like SaverLife? >> Leigh: You know, it was a interesting story. So we had worked with SaverLife when it was known as EARN, at the city. So the organization was actually really closely partnered with us, so I knew them and I knew their work. So there was a couple of reasons. I became really intrigued by this idea that being here in Silicon Valley, we really should start putting the types of technology that are so transformative, really putting that to work for everybody, right? And I had been an advisor, on an advisory board to for-profit fintech starter. And I thought, "Oh, if we could take that type of tech, "and use it to help low income people "build wealth in the US, "that could be really transformative." So that was the first reason. The second reason was really thinking about the scope of this problem, and when you work for the local government, you see that trajectory, that, you know, the traffic ticket that turned into a lost drivers license that turned into a lost job, that turned into an eviction, right? Like, you see those types of issues play out, over and over in people's lives. So the idea that half of America doesn't have four or five hundred bucks, and we could actually do something about that, was really impactful to me. And then the third reason was, you know, I loved working for the San Francisco treasurer, who is amazing, but I kind of felt, as a woman, that I wanted to lead an organization in my own right. And that I had challenged myself that, I had a personal goal that if the opportunity came up, to be that leader that I was going to challenge myself to take it. And so when the opportunity came up, I just went for it. >> And what challenges did you face to become the CEO? >> I think, you know, a lot of the challenges first were within myself, you know? Like, there's a lot that goes into being a non-profit CEO, you know? You have, obviously, you're working on some of the biggest problems that are out there, and you're doing it with so few resources, you know? And so, is that kind of, you know that saying about Ginger Rogers doing everything that Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels, it's kind of like that, right? You're trying to solve really, really, really big problems that are deeply entrenched, like half of America doesn't have $400. There's a lot of reasons for that, right? And then you're trying to do it by cobbling together philanthropic resources to make that happen. So, I think that was a challenge, like would it be a success? And then at the time, this organization was making in the midst of this massive transformation, you know? So going from seeing clients one on one in the office, to launching and building a scalable tech platform. And I don't have a tech background, you know? I can sometimes use my phone, you know? Like, that's, it's not my thing. But I was able to understand the potential. And so that was what really drew me there to challenge myself to be like, okay, well, there's a lot of people around here that have managed to figure this out, maybe I can figure it out, too. >> Sonia: Yeah, absolutely. So when we talk about people being unbanked, can you tell us more about what unbanked means and what it means for today? >> Leigh: Yeah, so when we talk about access to banking, and mainstream financial services, we usually separate that into two buckets, right? So you have unbanked, which means, people who have no formal relationship with a bank or credit union. So, you don't have a checking account, you don't have a savings account, you're going to a check cashing place, you're paying a fee, quite high fee, to turn your paycheck or whatever into cash, you're paying your bills with money orders, you know, that kind of thing. Then there's a larger category of people that are called underbanked. And so, those are people who may have that checking account relationship with a bank or a credit union, but they're still using these types of alternative services. So that could be money orders, it could be high cost predatory pay day lending, auto title lending, like these, kind of, systems that are outside of mainstream finance. And that actually affects quite a lot of people here in the US. About, I think, 7 to 8% of people are completely unbanked, but a much more significant portion are considered underbanked. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, it's usually split about 50-50 between people who have never had an account before. So those may be people who don't think banks are for them, don't feel welcome in that environment, don't trust banks, you know, so those are some of the reasons. But then the other half of people who are unbanked is because they've had bad or negative experiences with banking, and they've made a decision that banking didn't work for them. It was too costly, often that's the reason, hidden fees, overdraft fees, those types of penalties, and just decided that, you know what, it was better for me to manage my money in a different way. >> And how has SaverLife helped these people feel more secure in their financial investments? >> Leigh: So when we first launched SaverLife, it's gone through so many, so much. So much transformation and change over the years, as we've been, really adopting some of those tech based practices around iteration, and being user driven, and really trying to deliver something that will work for people. So what we heard when we first launched, was, you know, I know that saving is something I need to do for myself and my family, I think pretty much everybody knows and understands that, but it's too hard for me right now, you know? Either I've lost my job, I've been, I've had an illness, or a family member's had an illness, a lot of real reasons why people are unable to do that. And so people would say, "But I really want to get there, "so what can you do to help me?" So, at SaverLife specifically, we work with large numbers of people, we have about a quarter of a million people who've signed up for SaverLife in the last three years, which is really cool. We went from serving ten thousand people in a decade, actually six thousand people in a decade, to 250 thousand people in three years, which is pretty cool. So that shows us that there's a big need and interest for this. So anyone that goes to saverlife.org and signs up is going to get weekly financial coaching content from a certified financial coach who specializes in helping people with lower incomes to build wealth. If you link your account to our platform, you're going to qualify to win prizes for saving your own money. So it's kind of like this no-lose lottery in a way, like, you gain 'cause you're saving, and you have the opportunity to win money, and it's completely free. So, there's a lot of real benefits that we have on the platform that are designed specifically to help people who are struggling financially. >> Well, that's awesome. Leigh, thank you so much for being on theCUBE and thank you for your insight. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. >> I enjoyed speaking with you. >> I'm Sonia Tagare, thank you for watching this CUBE conversation. See you next time. (funky music)

(funky music) >> Hi, and welcome to this CUBE conversation from theCUBE Studios in Paulo Alto, California. I'm your host, Sonia Tagare, and today we're joined by Leigh Phillips, president and CEO of SaverLife. Leigh, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi, thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. So, tell us more about SaverLife and how it works. >> So, SaverLife is a non-profit organization. We work nationally, but we're based here in San Francisco, and our mission is to help working American families to save money, and to invest in themselves and their futures. So, we do that by making it engaging, rewarding, and fun for people to start saving, and leveraging financial technology to achieve scale. >> And you were previously known as EARN, so what spurred this change in branding? >> Well, it was more than a change in branding. It was actually a big shift towards technology. So, EARN, or, now known as SaverLife, has actually been around since 2001. So, we are not new, we're not a starter, we've been helping low to moderate income working families to save money for a long time. But what we've realized in recent years is that the size of the problem is really quite significant. So, about half of American families don't have $400. So they couldn't cover a $400 expense without having to borrow the money. As EARN, we were helping a lot of families here in the Bay Area, but maybe, you know, a thousand families a year at our peak, and when you have half of America that's financially insecure, we knew that the solution that we had wasn't big enough. So, a couple of years ago, the organization decided to make a pivot, and to make a pivot towards technology. I came onboard about four and a half years ago to lead that transition, and we launched SaverLife as a product, and we reached a quarter of a million people in a couple years, and decided that the people know best, and that we would rebrand the whole organization as SaverLife. So that's kind of how that came about. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So who is SaverLife specifically targeting, and are there any specific challenges with this target group? >> So, SaverLife is specifically targeting working American families, mostly low income families, so as I mentioned, financial insecurity is a really big problem here in the US, and so we hear about that a lot in the news, about income inequality, wealth inequality, but one of the most troubling statistics came out from the Federal Reserve Bank, they found that about 42% of American families couldn't cover a $400 expense without going into debt. And that's an issue that affects lots of people in different ways. So, SaverLife is really targeting low income people who are struggling to save money, and need a little help getting started with that. So, most of our clients are women, they're all across the United States and on average make about 25 thousand dollars a year or less. >> So let's talk about the current savings crisis in America. According to Bankry, 20% of Americans don't have emergency savings, and only 18% of Americans can live off their savings for only six months. So, tell us more about this crisis, and what do you think the underlying issue is? >> Yeah, it's a great question, and there are many issues that play into that, and most of them are systemic, you know. The way that people are making money and the gap between income and expenses. So, what we see is that larger numbers of people don't have basic emergency savings, and what that means is that you can't get through a financial emergency, right? And so that can have a real downward spiral effect on your life. So imagine a scenario where you have to miss a day or two of work because your child is sick, and you don't have sick leave, like a lot of people don't. And so you miss a couple days of income. Or, you get a flat tire, or a parking ticket. Those are the types of things that can really spiral out of control, so then you lose income, then you can't pay your rent, you're at risk of eviction, and all of these other problems. So what we know is that having relatively small amount of money, so even just 250 to $750 in savings is found to reduce those risks of things like eviction, or falling behind on bills or utilities really significantly. So, we're focused on getting people to that point, so that they can get through challenges. So one of the big things that we see in our population, isn't just that wages are low, which remains a really big problem in the US right now, but that income is really inconsistent. So if you're making an hourly wage job, or maybe you work in retail, or you work in a warehouse, or something like that, and you drive for Uber, whatever the case may be, your money that's coming in, you're not getting the same amount of money in your paycheck every two weeks, right? Like many of us do. And in fact, for SaverLife clients, we're seeing these swings of income of around a thousand dollars a month, month over month. So sometimes you earn more and sometimes you earn less. So in that scenario, it's really hard to stay on track towards saving, because you don't know how much money's coming in, and then you're getting hit with all these increasing expenses at the same time. >> Right. And, can you tell us a little bit about how people can save their way to financial independence, is it viable, and how have challenges changed since the disappearance of defined-benefit retirement packages? >> Yeah, so, it is possible, but it's challenging, and, you know, I do think that we need to be aware of those kind of bigger issues, right? And to focus on helping people have more consistency in their income, and reducing some of those large expenses, whether or not in the Bay Area obviously, the cost of housing, medical care, child care, transportation, all of these things that are really holding families back. But, you know, the good news is that people are remarkable. People are resilient, and people are remarkable. And I can share a couple of stories with you about that. So, at SaverLife we encourage people to save with prizes and cash rewards, right? So we make it really easy for people to get started. We also have a really supportive online community, so this is an issue that affects half of us, right? It's not something that people should be ashamed of. This is a really big and endemic issue here in the US. So we don't judge people, you know, it's all about starting small and starting today. So what we do at SaverLife is encourage people to save what they can when they can, and then we use behavioral economics to design programmatic interventions, so features on the website, that encourage people to save. So you can save five bucks a week if that's what works for you, and then you have the chance to win prizes. We also do a tax time quest, so that's happening right now. So, tax season is one of the times when people will get a larger infusion of cash, right? Particularly low income people, who maybe are qualified for tax credits and other benefits. So, what we do is encourage people to save a portion of that refund. So we ask people to start thinking about it before they get the refund, right? That's really clear, cause once the money is in, it's usually already spent. So we start talking to people in December, why don't you pledge to save your refund? You can win prizes just for pledging. And what we've found is that getting people to think about and commit to savings resulted, last year, in 80% of those people actually putting money into savings, and saving on average 16 hundred dollars from their tax refunds. >> Sonia: Wow. That's incredible. I love how you're incentivizing this whole savings thing, because, like, that essentially just makes people want to do it more. >> Leigh: Yeah. >> So, how should people bucket their savings? Should they have an emergency fund, a college fund, a retirement fund, how should they do that? >> So what we find at SaverLife is, or what we promote, is the idea that your money should really align with your values. And what's important to you, and what you want to achieve for yourself and for your family. So we don't tell people what to save for, and we don't tell them what to spend their money on, right? So, the biggest thing that people save for with the program is emergencies. So, really having that financial cushion, so, your car breaks down, or whatever the case may be, you can take care of it without going into debt, right? 'Cause that's the cycle that we want to avoid. But then we also see people really staying on track to save for big goals. And unsurprisingly, those are still the kind of goals that we talk about a lot in this country. So, an education, for yourself or for your children, and home ownership. Those remain, kind of the most popular things that people are focused on. >> So when it comes to prioritizing how you should save, like especially for someone who's just coming off that one paycheck away from the street, kind of space, how would you recommend prioritizing your savings? >> Leigh: So, we focus on building a savings habit. That's kind of the number one thing that we want people to really think about. So, putting money away as consistently as you can. It's really the behavior change that we're looking to see. And that's why we encourage people to make those small, incremental steps. But we also know that life has a lot of ups and downs, right? Particularly for people who are, as you say, living paycheck to paycheck. And so, what we see in our data is that families are often making two deposits in one withdrawal. So they're putting money away, and then they're using that money when they need it to get through emergencies. So that's kind of the first thing that we really look to do is, once you have that savings habit, and we know it's hard, you know, to do that, especially if you're not making a lot of money at this moment. But that's really, whatever you can save to get into that habit of putting it away. >> And do you think people are more at risk of being one paycheck away from being on the street, or one big bill away from being on the street? >> Leigh: Yeah, absolutely, many people are, you know? And especially here in the Bay Area, right? When life is extremely expensive, the cost of housing is out of control, and those other expenses that people have to deal with. And if you layer on top of that, that inconsistency in people's income, not making a regular amount of money, we're putting a lot of people in a very, very perilous situation. >> Sonia: Right. So let's talk about financial empowerment. You were leading the office of financial empowerment in the city and county of San Francisco. So, tell us more about financial empowerment and why it's important for people to have it. So, you know, I started out working for the city over there for about 11 years, before there was a thing called financial empowerment. And we started working on a range of programs. I worked for the San Francisco treasurer, and what we're really looking to do is use the influence of the city, and the municipal government to try to make a more fair and equitable financial system for people in San Francisco. So we started with programs like Bank On San Francisco, which was access to banking for everybody. So the idea that everyone should be able to have a safe and affordable place to keep their money, and to save their money. So that was a program we worked on there. And then we went on to launch the country's first universal children's savings program. So today, every single kindergartner, actually, today, every single elementary school student in San Francisco has a savings account open for them by the city and county, to encourage families to save early and often, for college. So when we think about financial empowerment, and how local government plays a role, we're really looking at a couple of things. So, do you have the ability to have a safe place to keep your money, and deposit your paycheck, pay your bills, in a way that's affordable, that doesn't have high fees, and is transparent, so that's the first thing. Do you have access to financial education and coaching if you need it? So the city now has quite a robust individual financial coaching and counseling program that they run. Are you able to save and invest in your future? So, save for college, save for home ownership, save for those big things, be a small business owner. And then the fourth thing is, are your assets protected? So are we protecting you from predatory practices that can deplete your wealth? >> And why did you decide to go from the city, from a public organization to a more private organization, like SaverLife? >> Leigh: You know, it was a interesting story. So we had worked with SaverLife when it was known as EARN, at the city. So the organization was actually really closely partnered with us, so I knew them and I knew their work. So there was a couple of reasons. I became really intrigued by this idea that being here in Silicon Valley, we really should start putting the types of technology that are so transformative, really putting that to work for everybody, right? And I had been an advisor, on an advisory board to for-profit fintech starter. And I thought, "Oh, if we could take that type of tech, "and use it to help low income people "build wealth in the US, "that could be really transformative." So that was the first reason. The second reason was really thinking about the scope of this problem, and when you work for the local government, you see that trajectory, that, you know, the traffic ticket that turned into a lost drivers license that turned into a lost job, that turned into an eviction, right? Like, you see those types of issues play out, over and over in people's lives. So the idea that half of America doesn't have four or five hundred bucks, and we could actually do something about that, was really impactful to me. And then the third reason was, you know, I loved working for the San Francisco treasurer, who is amazing, but I kind of felt, as a woman, that I wanted to lead an organization in my own right. And that I had challenged myself that, I had a personal goal that if the opportunity came up, to be that leader that I was going to challenge myself to take it. And so when the opportunity came up, I just went for it. >> And what challenges did you face to become the CEO? >> I think, you know, a lot of the challenges first were within myself, you know? Like, there's a lot that goes into being a non-profit CEO, you know? You have, obviously, you're working on some of the biggest problems that are out there, and you're doing it with so few resources, you know? And so, is that kind of, you know that saying about Ginger Rogers doing everything that Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels, it's kind of like that, right? You're trying to solve really, really, really big problems that are deeply entrenched, like half of America doesn't have $400. There's a lot of reasons for that, right? And then you're trying to do it by cobbling together philanthropic resources to make that happen. So, I think that was a challenge, like would it be a success? And then at the time, this organization was making in the midst of this massive transformation, you know? So going from seeing clients one on one in the office, to launching and building a scalable tech platform. And I don't have a tech background, you know? I can sometimes use my phone, you know? Like, that's, it's not my thing. But I was able to understand the potential. And so that was what really drew me there to challenge myself to be like, okay, well, there's a lot of people around here that have managed to figure this out, maybe I can figure it out, too. >> Sonia: Yeah, absolutely. So when we talk about people being unbanked, can you tell us more about what unbanked means and what it means for today? >> Leigh: Yeah, so when we talk about access to banking, and mainstream financial services, we usually separate that into two buckets, right? So you have unbanked, which means, people who have no formal relationship with a bank or credit union. So, you don't have a checking account, you don't have a savings account, you're going to a check cashing place, you're paying a fee, quite high fee, to turn your paycheck or whatever into cash, you're paying your bills with money orders, you know, that kind of thing. Then there's a larger category of people that are called underbanked. And so, those are people who may have that checking account relationship with a bank or a credit union, but they're still using these types of alternative services. So that could be money orders, it could be high cost predatory pay day lending, auto title lending, like these, kind of, systems that are outside of mainstream finance. And that actually affects quite a lot of people here in the US. About, I think, 7 to 8% of people are completely unbanked, but a much more significant portion are considered underbanked. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, it's usually split about 50-50 between people who have never had an account before. So those may be people who don't think banks are for them, don't feel welcome in that environment, don't trust banks, you know, so those are some of the reasons. But then the other half of people who are unbanked is because they've had bad or negative experiences with banking, and they've made a decision that banking didn't work for them. It was too costly, often that's the reason, hidden fees, overdraft fees, those types of penalties, and just decided that, you know what, it was better for me to manage my money in a different way. >> And how has SaverLife helped these people feel more secure in their financial investments? >> Leigh: So when we first launched SaverLife, it's gone through so many, so much. So much transformation and change over the years, as we've been, really adopting some of those tech based practices around iteration, and being user driven, and really trying to deliver something that will work for people. So what we heard when we first launched, was, you know, I know that saving is something I need to do for myself and my family, I think pretty much everybody knows and understands that, but it's too hard for me right now, you know? Either I've lost my job, I've been, I've had an illness, or a family member's had an illness, a lot of real reasons why people are unable to do that. And so people would say, "But I really want to get there, "so what can you do to help me?" So, at SaverLife specifically, we work with large numbers of people, we have about a quarter of a million people who've signed up for SaverLife in the last three years, which is really cool. We went from serving ten thousand people in a decade, actually six thousand people in a decade, to 250 thousand people in three years, which is pretty cool. So that shows us that there's a big need and interest for this. So anyone that goes to saverlife.org and signs up is going to get weekly financial coaching content from a certified financial coach who specializes in helping people with lower incomes to build wealth. If you link your account to our platform, you're going to qualify to win prizes for saving your own money. So it's kind of like this no-lose lottery in a way, like, you gain 'cause you're saving, and you have the opportunity to win money, and it's completely free. So, there's a lot of real benefits that we have on the platform that are designed specifically to help people who are struggling financially. >> Well, that's awesome. Leigh, thank you so much for being on theCUBE and thank you for your insight. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. >> I enjoyed speaking with you. >> I'm Sonia Tagare, thank you for watching this CUBE conversation. See you next time. (funky music)

>>Live from Orlando, Florida. It's the cube covering Microsoft ignite brought to you by Cohesity. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of Microsoft ignite here in Orlando. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, alongside of my co host Stu Miniman. We are joined by Lonnie Phillips. She is the vice president us channel sales at Microsoft. Thank you so much for coming on the cube. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation. You are a cube newbie, so this is going to be great. It's going to be great. So why don't you start by telling our viewers a little bit about what you do at Microsoft. You're, you've been there for 23 years, which is not, we can hardly believe it, but tell us about your, your job. I know I have been with Microsoft for a very long time, but currently I am responsible for driving our digital transformation in partnership with all of our partners. For example, Cohesity is one of those partners where we actually take that to the customer and makes sure that we ensure their success. >>We also have the co-selling partnership with all of our partners. We make sure that we can work on joint pursuits together to ensure that we ultimately meet our customer's goals together. So you are in charge of Microsoft's own digital transformation as it is helping other customers with their digital transformation where we're doing all of it. So how are you taking what you're learning, the, the, the successes and the mistakes along the way to make sure that you're putting together the best practices? I think the biggest thing that we were trying to do is just make sure that we create forums to make sure we bring our partners together and bring our people together and make sure that we have those sessions where we can talk about what we're learning along the way. And it's not just us as a leadership team, but it says collectively, uh, one of the things that I, I enjoy hosting is I actually bring together a group of our partners and we talk about what's actually happening in the marketplace and they kind of share the best practices that we're learning as we go out. And we talked to different customers. So it's really nice. >>Alright. I love that. And when you talk to customers, they're going through that transformation. It's really about getting the data inside that environment. That's what differentiates between before you've been transforming after is you can drive that environment. Um, you know, how does data and being customer obsessed, uh, play into your role? >>Oh my gosh. So talking about customer obsession, 22 years I've been with the company. I want you to know of all those 22 years I've always been customer facing or I led the teams that were customer facing. So I have a tremendous amount of passion for it. You know, the thing I tell most people is there's actually a Forester research study that says, when you have so much digital disruption, the one competitive advantage you can have as a company is to really deeply understand your customers, what's important to them, build those connections with them, understand what problems they're, and be a part of that solution. I actually wrote on this recently and I talked about four key areas. One. As you think about customer obsession is really about engaging with your customers to understand their industry and their business deeply and what problems they're trying to solve and then it's really about advocating for those customers and making sure that whatever problems they're trying to solve, that you bring together the right solutions to solve that problem. >>Sometimes that's going to be part, partly Microsoft. Other times it's going to be partly our partners coming together to solve their problems from end to end zone. I think it is so important once you bring the solution to them, you're really empowering them. You're empowering your customer to really be able to meet the needs of their customers. Right and then last but not least, you have to listen. We have to listen to our customers to make sure we're learning from them and I think that is going to be a competitive advantage for anyone that really focuses on what does it really mean to be customer obsessed. >> One of the things that we heard on the main stage this morning was trust and trust. How important trust is, and this is at a time where there is a lot of mistrust of big technology companies, a lot of uh, some bad actors, some in real and perceived, uh, problems in the industry at large. >>What, how do you make sure that you are transparent and that you are perceived to be this trustworthy partner with four customers as they embark on this digital transformation? Thank you for that question. And I agree with you. I think it's one of those things where as you start to practice the four things that I talked about, you do find yourself being seen as a trusted advisor at that point, right? So they invite you to the table. But I think part of what you have to do to build that trust with your customers is you have to have a level of integrity and you've got to be able to be forthright with being able to say what you can do and what you can do right? Or if you see them making a mistake in a respectful way, offer them that feedback. I have found time and time again. Our customers really appreciate that transparency and that clarity around what we can do and what we can't do. And when you practice, that I think is so important because what happens is the customer becomes, they find themselves valuing that. And then what it allows you to do is to be a part of conversations where they share their articulated needs. But then it also allows you, I love when Satya says the unarticulated need to really understand what problems they're solving and how we might come together to solve it. >>Well, one of the real interesting things to watch in this transformation journey has been the channel. And you know, in the past it was I'm selling you licenses. I have a certain infrastructure piece that I'm going to help you with. But you know, today, uh, you know, I, I need a Microsoft practice. I need to help you understand, uh, you know, how to take, enable, uh, the, the, the cloud phrase inside a little bit of what's been changing in your organization, how you're helping your partners move along this journey. >>I think the biggest thing that in the coast selling part of things is we're trying to do a better job of making sure that we include partners from, as we identify opportunities within our customers, bringing them in earlier in the sales cycle so they can participate on the entire journey with us. I think it is so important for them to be able to really understand what the customer's trying to solve for and be at the table with Microsoft earlier. I think it's also important to make sure that we are listening to our partners as well. They're spending a lot of time with our customers that we don't actually have time with the, we don't actually sit at the table with them and it's important that we create an environment where we're both sitting at the table and we're sharing with one another how things are going and when we start running into issues, let's see what we can do to start removing those blockers to ensure our customer's success. >>So we're just trying to include them into the fabric of everything we do internally. We refer to it as hard wiring partners and say every aspect of everything we do because we can't be successful without them. >> Another hot button, hot button issue in the technology industry is diversity or the lack of it. We know that there is a dearth of women leaders, a dearth of people of color, a dearth of people of different sexualities, LGBTQ. How are, how are you tackling these issues at Microsoft? And can you talk about, uh, inclusion initiatives within Microsoft and at its, at its partner ecosystem? Absolutely. So another topic near and dear to my high for obvious reasons and haven't been here for a 22 years, I can tell you that it is an area that I can personally say at Microsoft, we've gotten so much better, but we are definitely not at end of job. >>This is just, this is going to be a journey and we still have a lot more to learn. But I would say to you, the biggest thing that I think we've done is we've declared that this is going to be a foundation of everything that we do and we're now holding one another accountable. Some of the initiatives that we're doing. I love the fact that we did training around unconscious and conscious bias that started a conversation that wasn't happening before and it caused us all to kind of pause and assess and all of this is rooted in, you've heard about the growth mindset to make sure we're constantly learning from one another, but the biggest thing that I've really come to appreciate in the famous quote we hear everybody talk about is diversity is being invited to the party, right? Inclusion is being asked to dance and then there's another element of that which is even deeper and it's belonging and belonging is like dancing like nobody's watching. >>And I would tell you that some of the initiatives that we're trying to drive on the inclusion front is to make sure that we create a space as leaders to make sure all voices are heard and to create that forum for that. Also to make sure that we are just being intentional about connecting with people, understanding what their needs are and doing everything we can to incorporate it. Everybody's doing something a little bit different. We have big initiatives, but we're all held accountable. And I equally am just so excited about the changes. And then the belonging aspect, which is so important to me in my organization is making people feel like they're valued for being here. And we have to create opportunities to really allow them to be able to shape our direction and make them feel like they really belong and they're valued. And how is it being built to the employees? >>Is it this is something that will impact the products and services that we as Microsoft deliver to our customers and our customers are diverse or is it something else? I mean, how would you, is it sort of this is the right thing to do? How would you describe how it's talked about? I would tell you that it's talked about in a couple of different ways and it's all of the above. Um, I would tell you that when it comes to, is it the right thing to do for business? Does it drive business outcomes and profitability? Absolutely. I think there's a lot of studies out there that support it. Is it the right thing to do because you have all of these diverse people in the workplace? Absolutely. But we're also saying that as you think about the future of technology, it's going to be so important as you start to think about some of those native behaviors that are going to be built into AI. And we think about the foundation of trust. We got to be very sensitive to those biases that will come out. So we have to make sure that we're always being mindful of diversity and inclusion there. So we talk about all of the above. >>Just curious with your role in the channel, did they look to Microsoft for guidance in this space? Is there education, you talked about some of the bias training, the likes that technology and channel partners can leverage and learn from what Microsoft is doing out there? >>Absolutely, absolutely they can learn from us. So one of the things that we have done is we kind of have like a little bit of a culture committee at the global level where they are actually working with our partners around DNI. And then in the U S I actually signed up to kind of support that initiative here in the U S and we're just getting started. But we are trying to make some of the things we're doing. Um, make sure it's available to the channel so they can leverage it. But you know what I would say we don't have all the answers. So our partners, believe it or not, some of them are extremely progressive in this area as well. And we want to make sure that we're learning from them as well. So we're going to start to do more blogs, we're going to make sure we can do some form of videos and we're going to start sharing two ways. >>We want to make sure we can make with what resources we have available to them, but we also want to learn from them as well. I mean, so much of this interview has focused learning and the collaboration that goes on between Microsoft and its customers and its partners at collaborating. So how when you're here at ignite, yeah. And this is not your first ignite. So wow. What describe the community for us here and what goes on here at this conference for our viewers who don't have the luxury of being here in Orlando. Oh my gosh, there's so much that goes on here. I think one, it allows us to really add ignite to really connect with more of the TDM and the technical audience within our customer base. But it also allows us to connect with our partners and it allows us to really get embedded with our partners around the solutions that they have to offer our customers. >>And we make sure that we create a forum that brings those two together. It's also an opportunity for you to understand where we're trying to go from a technology direction, from a vision, like everyone's talking about the buzz around Saatchi as keynote. I think that's really another reason why you come here. When you think about the amount of money that our customers invest in our solutions, it's important to understand that that's a good investment. And you're not just thinking short term, but you're thinking long term. So it's an opportunity to come here and learn a lot. >>Yeah. So, so Lani, just with your experience out there, I it sometimes people have a hard time understanding that the company that you see today is different than the past, so you know, I, you know, I think back in the early days and you think Microsoft and it was the Microsoft that is, you're going to use my O S and my business apps and and it's all Microsoft. Talk a little bit about, especially as you're going to the channel, how Microsoft its ecosystem and its ISV partners, how those all interplay. >>Oh my gosh, there's so much to tell you about that. I would tell you that when we think about how we're going to be successful today is we're the platform company and we've got all of these technology companies, our partners that sit on top of that. Let me give you an example of that. When I think about Cohesity, right? Cohesity is actually this modern cloud first architecture, right? That has Azure running natively, so our customers have the ability to really be able to run their data. Workloads in Azure is seamlessly with Cohesity. That is what it means when it says customer obsession, customers centric. They keep the customer at the center and make it seamless for them to transition. It's because of those partnerships that Microsoft's going to continue to be successful, and that's where we're going to continue to invest. We want to make sure that we leverage our partner ecosystem to meet our customer's needs from Anta, and so it's limitless the opportunity that's out there for us. Excellent. Lalani, thank you so much for coming on the cube. It was great having you on. Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. I'm Rebecca knife for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of Microsoft ignite.

(upbeat music) >> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering the AWS Accenture Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have three guests for this segment. We have Jim Phillips, Cloud Architect, Mutual of Omaha. Roy Bacharach, Senior Principle Technology, Accenture. And Brian Bohan, Global Business Lead, AWS. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we're talking about the transformation of the Contact Center but before we get started there, let's tell our viewers a little bit about Mutual of Omaha, your business, your target demographic and what you do. >> So Mutual of Omaha's a 109 year old insurance company. We have, our biggest market segments are in the senior health space and then, in the life space. So we service customers with a wide variety of needs, everything from Medicare supplement policies so we have like seasonal surges in business and things like that to people who are concerned about like, how do they, how do they prepare for their family for their life insurance needs and things like that. So, we've been around for quite a while. Predominantly, we'd been servicing our customer base through agents and as that shift occurs, right, we've been looking at how do we provide a much more finely focused view of the customer and emphasizing that within our contact centers with the recent creation of our service practice. >> So it was really just this idea of let's think about how to touch the customer in a different way. That that was really the business imperative toward this move. >> Right, so previously, we had, this all started in 2016 when we decided to take a focus on the customers, specifically from the service practice. So instead of service kind of being like an overhead associated with a product line, what we decided to do is we decided to really have something where the focus was on the end to end customer experience and how do we make that consistent across your interaction with Mutual of Omaha. That then lead us to reevaluate how we were doing our contacts centers and that's when we became involved with Roy and Accenture to look at what are our options to really kind of improve that experience for the customer. >> So when a customer like Mutual of Omaha comes to you Roy, with this business problem, what, how do you walk them through it and have them think about it? >> Okay, so we typically start at the top, you know, and understanding not only the business strategy but their current state of their technology architecture. And then, you try to work through the specific gaps, you know, gap analysis. What are they missing to get them there? With Mutual of Omaha, it was really they were being held back by their legacy on premise solution. You know, high levels of technical dept, huge complexity to support maintain and to make the changes. You know, so it was in that analysis we -- It was easy to see that the cloud was probably the best option for them. >> And did Amazon Connect immediately stand out? >> So even initially, when we were looking at options for this, Amazon Connect wasn't actually even on our list, so that was something that was brought to our attention during the sort of short-listing of candidates process. And then, you know, when we really looked at it, it just kind of blew our minds. So, you know, Roy had mentioned about taking a look at the gap analysis. So, as sort of as embarrassing or sad as this may seem, right, the decision to do something is a lot easier when there are a lot of gaps. We had a lot of gaps between what we could deliver with our current technology solution and then, what really the business strategy outcomes were wanting us to do. So, it did make a decision to look at completely sort of reinventing how we do the contact centers a lot easier position to consider. >> Bryan, in terms of the nuts and bolts of making Amazon Connect, can you give our viewers a little sense about really what is the infrastructure we're talking about here? >> So the interesting thing with Amazon Connect is it's really the call center platform capability that Amazon.com has been using for a number of years and that we decided to commercialize and externalize to customers like Mutual of Omaha. And so, like a lot things with AWS, what's nice about it is that it's you can start small. You can layer it in and it can integrate into some of the existing technologies and investments that you've made. It's not a rip and replace and then you can scale it as you see success and you can scale it up and down. So it's very economical as well. And so, it's an area we're really excited to see Mutual of Omaha really on the cutting edge there but we're seeing, with Accenture, a lot of momentum with this platform in insurance, financial services, even as CPG companies become more focused on delivering services, it's changing how they have to interact with customers so it's a great platform for that, a great starting place. >> So Amazon, a famously customer centric company. So what are the kinds of. You think, oh customers will love this but in fact, we were talking before the cameras were rolling, there was a little bit of resistance. >> So you have to think about like, how do you introduce this type of sort of radical change from what was traditionally just an exclusively a hands on service process that was, you know, agents and contact centers with an audience demographic that is not what you would think of as being like cutting edge in terms of technology adoption. But what we found through things like paying a lot of attention to our call flow development with Accenture. Paying lot of attention actually to our voice tuning and getting the voice of the customer to understand like what that voice tuning and how well that worked. We were able to actually get a more positive reception for the Connect solution that we even over like professionally recorded voice talent on it. So, you do have to address like all of the, all of the like customer touch points within the contact center and think about how do you manage the change within your audience demographic and how do you manage that adoption. But, you know, it's your customers, it's your agents. How do you make them comfortable with the solution? Right, because the, you know, customer can detect it, an agents uncomfortable with the solution that they're using. Right, how do you make this kind of like really seamless? So we took a, put a lot of emphasis on customer experience development as part of this. We didn't, we did not take any of our existing call flows and just put them in Connect. So all of our call flows were re-architected. >> What are some of the best practices that have emerged because he has just pointed out so many of the kind of challenges of implementing this new kind of approach and system with both clients and also the workforce itself. I mean, what would you say, what is sort of your advice in best practices that have emerged in terms of Mutual of Omaha's experience? >> You know, I think it's really start with the desired customer experience that you want. You know, so start with that customer experience and then with Amazon Connect, you know, likes Amazon Web Services, you can deliver that experience. So start there, throw out the legacy call flows, the legacy IVR scripts and start from scratch with the customer experience at the top of mind. And then you can get there. >> Yeah, I would second that. The, 'cause managing change internally organization, like if your focus is exclusively on what the customer experience is, that shortcuts a lot of arguments within the organization about what's the right thing to do because you know, everybody tends to kind of sub optimize for whatever their stakeholder perspective is. >> If your clearly focused on what the customer is looking for, that actually clarifies a lot what your internal conversations are. >> How do you three work together in terms of this tri-partnership? Accenture, AWS and Mutual of Omaha. How do you collaborate? >> Yeah, so I guess first from the partnership perspective, like I talked about, Connect and modernizing customer care, is a really big focus area for us as a partnership and a big investment area. So, we worked with Accenture and gotten their teams very much skilled up on the new platform and they have done a great job of integrating it into their existing practice. So now, when we come to a customer like Mutual of Omaha, we, you know, Accenture's got a very strong point of view, they've got technology skills behind it and they know how the solution can solve customer problems. So that's my job is to make sure that foundation is there and then, the team takes it from there really with the client. >> Yeah, I would say our experience with Amazon around this, is they're really very interested in the experience that we're having and how we can provide feedback around our particular use cases and understanding like what are the types of, what are the types of things that would make our stuff more successful. So because we work with a combination of health and life insurance products, things like HIPAA eligibility for services are a big deal for us and when you look at how the ecosystem is all tied together with Connect, that has really kind of, we've got a lot of attention and help from Amazon with regards to dealing with like HIPAA incompliance issues associated with how we put the solutions together and it's been really helpful for us. >> I want to talk about the role of empathy in this kind of technology, because as we know, we are dealing with really difficult times in peoples' lives. That they are in need of these kinds of products and services. So how do you make sure that the technology is taking that into account? >> Yeah, that's an excellent point. So we tend to think of financial services products as kind of sort of emotionally neutral or cold even, right? But when you're dealing with insurance, and a lot of times you're dealing with people who are calling and they're in a very emotional sort of situation. The, one of the things that is really good for that, that we hope to leverage much more in the future is being able to get the transcripts of the conversations out, so we can understand as part using that data that's coming from the interactions with the Lex bots and understanding that data as the customer works through the call flows to be able to look at how do we continue to improve these around how that customers responding to it, so that we can get to better customer experiences. Like, in often times, it's a very highly emotional situation. If you're dealing with like a life claims contact center, you're dealing with someone who's just recently experienced a loss of a loved one and as a result, peoples' patience is really low, they're really stressed, they're facing -- You know, our demographic is selling final expense policies and that means that people are facing a lot of financial uncertainty in addition to emotional distress. >> Right. >> Being able to take that information and use that to continually tune things for delightful customer outcomes is really important to us. >> So, what's next for Mutual of Omaha? >> So really, what's next for us is we're in the process of major migration of our contact center agents onto it. Once that is completed, that allows us to kind of get rid of some existing technology debt with our on premise telephony solution. And then we really start to get into kind of the good stuff. Right, so that's like integration with our customer portal, taking more advantage of what we want to do from a machine learning and AI perspective with regards to what we can get from the call data and the customer, the customer interaction. And really starting to kind of like make a huge jump in terms of what that customer experience can be. >> Great, I look forward to hearing more about it at next years Executive Summit. (laughing) >> Yeah, it would be great to be back. >> Great. >> Jim, Roy, Brian. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. We will have more from the AWS Executive Summit and theCUBE's live coverage coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE! Covering Inforum D.C. 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Good afternoon, and welcome back to the Walter Washington Convention Center, we're at Inforum 2018, here live on theCUBE, John Walls with Dave Vellante, and it's a pleasure now to welcome the CEO of Infor, Charles Phillips with us. Charles, good to see ya! >> Good to see you guys again, another year. It's great, it's great. >> Yeah, I tell ya, you are a man of demand aren't you? I mean, tell me about the week so far for you, how it's gone, and just your overall thoughts about the show? >> Yeah, it's been a fun Inforum for 2018 here. Great attendance, and a lot of energy level, and the common feedback we get is you guys just keep innovating and bringing new things, this is great, and that's why they come, they want to see what we're working on and kind of dream the art of the possible. We know what you, what we think you get a couple years ago, but if we don't have someone pushing us and painting a picture of what we could be doing, and we just think we might be missing it, so we want to hear it first hand. So that's what the conference is about, and hopefully they got that. >> Well, certainly thematically, human potential, you talk about that, you see that on the keynote stage, that's been a very consistent theme with our guests here, we've heard that a lot, you hear it down on the show floor. Talk about the theme if you would, a little bit, in terms of it's development, where that came from, and in how you think that's being expressed here this week. >> Well, we're one of the few companies that build mission critical operational systems, be it manufacturing or hospital operations, but we're also in HCM in a big way. And so we were talking to kind of both sides of the house, for some applications you're talking to the line of business manager, but for HCM you're talking to the CHRO, and rarely were those two people talking, and we saw obvious synergies. Don't you want to know how your people are doing, how to allocate people, and how they're performing, how they're changing the outcomes on a manufacturing floor or in a hospital, and a lot of HR directors weren't thinking like that because they think of HR, and they have their own world, they go to HR conferences and that's it. And the manufacturing guys are the same thing, and so we're trying to bring these two worlds together and say "Actually, you're in the same business, it's the same goals, and you actually could help each other a lot." And so by focusing on putting the employee at the center of all these applications and mapping all these operational processes to HR data, it's a different way of thinking about the role of HR. They can actually help drive the business, not just be an administrative function, and so it's resonating with a lot of the CHROs we met with, 'cause they want a seat at the table, they want to be more strategic, and this is a way for them to do that and at the same time the operational people want to know how their people are doing, want to develop talent, and want to know what are the tools out there I could be doing differently, and how am I doing, and which employees are working the best So, I think we can bring both sides together. >> So I first met Infor through AWS, at re:Invent, Pam Murphy came on, and we were like Infor? Back then it was like 2012, 2013 was kind of Infor who? And then we were invited to New Orleans, and then started to learn more about your micro-vertical strategy and a little bit about the platform, it was somewhat opaque to me. And now, fast forward last year and this year it's really starting to come in to view. The OS, the platform vision, the Birst acquisition, and of course Coleman, and I'm a sucker for platform plays especially when there's real R&D behind it that's actually having a business impact. So I wonder if you could talk about that piece of the strategy, I love the stack, was that sort of always your vision and now you're getting aggressive in it, did it sort of come together serendipitously, how'd we get here? >> Having our own stack and a platform was always the vision, but it's a lot harder to do than it sounds like, and it takes time. And so, when we arrived almost eight years ago, there were different applications, all had their own separate stacks and would say "This is not going to work." So, we need, just to be able to scale, to be able to serve multiple industries with different products, we can't have every development organization building their stack as well. So we set about taking that away from the development groups we're going to do this as a shared service, but it takes time, and as we build it you will adopt components of it. So what's changed is we've built out the entire stack, so, starting with ION, with integration, then we added document management, workflow, analytics, now AI and a lot of other services, Mongoose, platform as a service, on and on and on, in collaboration, those things took time, they're all on a single platform, federated security, single siloed across it all, and now it makes the developers job who's developing apps so much simpler. So they have Infor OS for the immediate platform, for cloud services they have AWS, I don't have to worry about any of those things anymore, just go and develop industry functionality. So, it's come together nicely, but the fact that we had the time to do it and the money to do it, and we weren't public, and we told our investors "This is the only way this is going to scale, this is the future, and it'll pay out later, you just got to trust us." And now that we've gotten there, they're seeing the synergy and go "Okay, now we see why you did that." >> So, Michael Dell's been on theCUBE many times, he used to talk about the 90 day shot clock, we obviously see what he's done in terms of transforming; but I want to talk about your business a little bit, because you've had that patient capital, I mean you're a quasi-public company in the sense that you do report so we can see the numbers on the income statement, but the income statement doesn't really tell the whole story It's about three billion in revenue, several hundred billion dollars on the balance sheet, but if you look at the SaaS component of it it looks rather small, maybe about 25% of the business, but from a booking standpoint I'm sure it's much, much larger than that. So how should we interpret the income statement in terms of the momentum in your business, where is all the action? >> So as a percentage of our sales, it's the highest of any of our competitors, so, about 70% of our new sales are on SaaS, we have about a $700 million SaaS business, so it's growing. There's nothing we can do about the maintenance piece of it, if it's related to perpetual, so if you take that out, it's a big percentage of our business. And over time the maintenance will turn into SaaS, so that's one of our big opportunities to look at that maintenance space and say "Move those over to cloud customers." and that's usually a financially lucrative thing for us to do, because we do even more for them, because they usually add on four or five other products when they move, they replace these third party products and so we get a bigger suite of products if they decide to move to the cloud. So that's part of the strategy, that's what UpgradeX is, let's move you from on-premise, so that maintenance revenue will turn into SaaS revenue, but bigger SaaS revenue over time. >> So let me make sure I understand, so it's not the classic case where you see a lot of software companies that are going from a perpetual model to a ratable model, you're goin' from a maintenance model which is ratable to a ratable model which is SaaS, but there's cohorts sales which increase the top line, is that correct? >> Exactly. So usually, because of what we do, we're doing something mission critical. So if you're going to take that, then you should do ACM financials, all the other things around it. So why would I move to core and leave the edge on-premise? So, almost by definition we have to do the whole suite. So when we do that it expands the deal, 'cause on-premise we may have been one vendor with 30 other ones existing, but the whole reason they want to get out of all of that is to move to the cloud and simplify. So we can't take all that with us, so we have to have the full suites, we've built that now. So now we can move them, but, it expands the size of the deal because we're replacing all these other products. >> Okay, and then some of the stats, just correct me if I don't get this right. Your SaaS business grown 50% faster than Oracle's, growing at a rate, I'd say 2X SAP's and a rate comparable to Workday, are those correct figures? >> Those are correct, and profitable. >> Oh, and profitable. >> Throw that in. (all laugh) >> Right, so okay. And then last year Koch Industries invested, so you kind of recap the company, you've made a big deal about that. One of the things that we've noted is you're seeing a tailwind there in terms of guys like Accenture and Capgemini, we've asked them "Do you guys service Koch Industries?" they said "Yep!" they helped us see the opportunity, and they said "Look, look for something substantive, we're not going to try to force you to do something, but we want you to take a look." So that's been helpful. Talk about that and maybe other things Koch has brought to the table? >> It's a, the relationship with the integrators is evolving, it probably was not a plus for us in the first four, five years. More recent years we've won enough deals where they had to say "Okay, we can't keep losin' these deals." And where they wanted to get engaged. Koch helped, because they had relationships and they wanted to run that business, that's why they're implementing our products globally, and so, they're a large customer for all of these guys, and one of the largest for Deloitte for instance, but what's really more-- that helped, but it was more the, what was happening in the market, the fact that we're in a Liberty Steel and replace SAP, or that we're in a Travis Perkins interview with SAP and Microsoft, so, if you're on the wrong side of those deals enough times your manager starts to ask you what's goin' on, and you got all these people on the bench here, okay, we train them for Infor if they're winning in that region, or in that industry. So, we just had to earn our way into it, our initial strategy was not one that, at least on the surface, looked like it was integrator-friendly because we were trying to take all those mods they like to do and put 'em in the product, and that's the whole thesis, let's the take the vertical industry features and let's put it in there once, I don't want everybody customizing my apps, we do that. And so now they've had to move up, okay we can do other things, configuration, changed management, there's AI, there's other things you can do, but you're not going to do that. So now that they've accepted that, there's a basis for us to work together, and, it just had to take time to get there. >> What can you tell us about where you want to go with this? I mean you've presided over public companies before, you know that business well, you were a rockstar analyst, is there an advantage to being a public company, is that something that you eventually want to do? >> I would say there are pluses and minuses, our board is evaluating that, that's going to be their call. The upside is, it would solve probably our biggest challenge which is brand recognition, almost instantly, because would be a top 10 tech IPO. It makes it a little easier to hire people because they can see public currency, they can value more quickly, and it gives you some acquisition currency; so those are the positives. But then you're on the 90 day cycle, and we're kind of on that anyway, 'cause we report publicly and we have publicly traded bonds. So for us it's, in some sense we have the worst of all worlds, right? We have the discipline of being a public company, and the scrutiny, without the capital, (laughs) and the branding, so. I think that's what everybody's evaluating. Every bank on Wall Street's visiting us telling us to go now, the window's great, you have the numbers. >> Oh, of course. (Dave and John laugh) >> And so, so we could do it, I just don't know what their decision's going to be. The advantages to being private as well, you have a little more flexibility obviously, and, we don't need the capital, we have plenty of capital coming from Koch and others who want to invest. >> Well, the flip side of that too, is you get to write your own narrative, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're talkin' about the nuances of the income statement, the Street is obviously right now hooked on growth heroin, and if you got the transition in the base it doesn't become a tailwind, so, no rush from that standpoint. I want to pivot to the theme of this event, which is the human potential. My understanding is you sort of were instrumental in coming up with that. HCM this year got a big play on stage, where's that come from? >> Yeah, just as I talk to CEOs who are struggling to find talent, like I mentioned on stage 6.7 million jobs that are unfulfilled. It's not like we don't have people here, we have people here with their own skills, so, you're not going to fill those jobs any other way, we're not doing immigration to any degree and scaling more, that's been shut down. We have an aging population with the baby boomers, so the most logical thing that you would do is train people who are already here who want to work. And, let's take people who have jobs that they probably aren't thrilled about, and give them different skills so they can fill these 6.7 million jobs. So to do that, you have to make these applications easier to use, and I felt like we're probably in the best position to do it because we actually know what they do for a living, 'cause we wrote all those last features in those industries, we understand what they do. And if you're just doin' HR replication or financials, you actually have no idea what they do. So, we had to learn those jobs to automate those jobs, so we can find ways to use our HCM applications to better train people, professional development, coaching, take all these HR skills, and put them as part of the applications in the context of while you're working. >> We had Anne Benedict on just a little bit ago talking about really a test case that you can be for yourself. So how are you putting these things to practice yourself, and how are you working out maybe some kinks before you take them out to somebody else? And so, you can leverage your own success for your own success, and also learn from mistakes too I would think. >> We do. So we have this program called Infor at Infor, where everything we do, we want it to be on an Infor product, which was not the case when we arrived. Like a lot of companies, a mish mash of different things, and so we've implemented not only HR Financials of course, Birst, but the big innovation has really been talent science, that every employee we hire has to take that test, and all the executives have taken it as well. And what we've discovered is, is that, when people hire and go against the talent science recommendation, 68% of the time they end up being wrong. So it's better at judging people than people are sometimes, and you can't use it exclusively, but it'll tell you these are the things you should look into, some questions you might want to ask, here's how they rate on certain skillsets, they're very well meshed for this job, they look like they'd see their best performance in this area, but ask these questions. And so people don't know how to interview and how to think about this, and so, having a guide to go into an interview is actually pretty helpful. We hire much better people now by using that. >> So it's like StrengthsFinder in a way? >> No, it's different from that, this is AI, it's kind of Moneyball for business people. >> Well you're talking about that today, almost there. >> Yeah so it's 39 personality attributes, behavioral attributes we call them, so, empathy, resistance to authority, do you have the ambition or not, and depending on the job, you think all those things are good, depends on the job, so. For some jobs, it's actually better to have low ambition because, a lot of our customers who have low wage, fast food service jobs, people who have ambition are going to leave in four months, right? They're not going to stay, so, okay we're not going to be here long, at least know that going in, and know who wants to get promoted, and other people are fine with it. And so it depends on the mix of skills, just like I said, 39 attributes, and for that job role, you tune it to the people who like that job, they look like this. And, we've also found that it's 60% more diverse when you hire using science, because you don't know that when you're looking at the data, what they look like. >> It must've been super interesting getting those reports. You took it, obviously right? >> Yeah I took it. >> How'd you do? (laughs) >> Uhhh, nobody really likes their profile. (all laugh) >> I was going to say, I imagine I would be really defensive about this, oh I don't know. >> This can't be right! >> That is not me! I am not like that! (all laughing) >> Every person on our executive team said the same thing so. That's what it's for is to, you have certain perceptions even about yourself, and it calls it out, right? And there's no gaming the system because the questions have no right or wrong answer, it just puts you in scenarios that you answer what would you do, how do you feel about this? You're not clear what they're trying to get at, and you only have 27 minutes or 22 minutes to do the test. >> So you can't game it? >> You can't game it. >> Data doesn't lie! >> And we built the science, we know when someones trying to game it, they're taking to long on multiples, and changing their answers too much, so it's-- And we've now, I think we've tested some 200 million people over time, over years, so we have 20 years of data about people. >> That's, I mean, sounds unique, certainly unique of being infused into enterprise software, I've not seen anything like this from another enterprise software company. Can you confirm that, or? >> Yeah, so, we're the only ones that do this at scale, there's a few startups trying to do it, but they're trying to do it all facial recognition which is, we think pretty ridiculous, we're trying to get away from physical attributes not use that. So there's a company out there doing that, depending on your facial movements, but this is, we're eliciting responses about your personality in response to situations that we give you, and have a bunch of scientists that crunch the data and they basically shape it to the job role. And they test your best performance, and you get a DNA profile for your best performance for that job role, and then, that's what you're matching, and it's highly accurate. So we had a company on the Las Vegas Strip use it, because they have to hire in volume a lot, and essentially what they wanted to do was get better blackjack dealers. You need somebody that's good at math, good under pressure, not too emotive, don't give away anything; and so we did that, fine tuned the test, they call us back nine months later and said "We need you to change the test." We said "We did exactly what you wanted, what happened?" He said well, the winnings went up 30%, but everybody's leaving the hotel in 24 hours 'cause they lost all their money, so we don't need them to be that good. (all laugh) >> Dial it down a little bit. >> Which we did. And so that's part of the service is we fine tune it, you tell us what your goals are, and we'll tune to that. >> That's a great story. The other surprise for me this week has been the emphasis on robotic process automation, it's a space that we've kina looked at. And a lot of people are scared about software robots replacing humans, but if you talk to people who are using RPA, they love it. It's taking away these mundane tasks, I didn't realize that you guys had such capabilities there? >> Yeah, so we built that as part of a Coleman RPA platform, and not only can we automate and use RPA for ourselves, but we've built a whole development environment for our customers to build their own, 'cause we can't think of every process that they might want to automate, and we gave that platform to our partners as well, so. We don't want them doing database schema work anymore, and they used to get paid for that, there's other things you can do up the stack in AI, here's what we want you to focus on. So we had that meeting on Monday with the partners, and they all agreed that's what we're going to do. But there's tons of mundane things that people shouldn't be spending time on, and they can be much more productive, it makes them more loyal to the company, they're enjoying their job more, and they're thinking and innovating more. So I don't see it as replacing people, as making people better. And giving that engagement that I talked about during the keynote, they're engaged now, because they can do things that are more value adding now. >> So, back to New Orleans next year? That's the first Inforum that theCUBE was ever at was in N'Orleans, and, jazz, you like jazz, obviously, right? >> I like jazz, I met with the mayor when I was down there, Mitch Landrieu at the time, and he became a customer after that meeting, so the city of New Orleans runs on Infor software, it's another reason to go there; so thank you. >> You've get--nice. >> Yeah, thank you Mitch, so that worked well. And so as a thank you we're going back down there, they're a big customer now, and it's always fun, you know what I mean, you know. >> That's great. >> Just, before you go, you mention, I watched in the keynote this morning, Brooks Koepka. >> Yes. So you're working with him. I do a little bit of work on the golf side as well, so I was just intrigued because, he's not the, well he's not Tiger, right? >> Yeah. >> U.S. Open Champion, twice over. What was the attraction to him, and then can you play in the golf world a little bit, and with those brands, and is that an entry into that world? >> Well, we always like to bet on the scrappy guy, the next up and coming generation guy, and that's kind of our brand that's what we are, the Brooklyn Nets, someone who's not quite there yet, but they're moving up, that's kind of our scrappiness, that's why we like the whole Brooklyn image as well. And we started talkin' to him, like I said, before he won the U.S. Open, because he was ranking pretty high, moving up, but wasn't well known. A quite guy, very personable when you meet him, we thought he'd be good in front of clients, let's bet on his career, and we're going to work with him; and literally three weeks later he wins the U.S. Open, we go "Okay." (all laugh) >> Good grab! >> We'll take it! (laughs) So, we didn't even think it'd happen that quickly, and now he's a rockstar so. We were planning on hosting a CX event with him, and, we're not sure how many people are going to come, but when that happened, now, everybody RSVP'd right away of course. So now it's doing exactly what we wanted. >> Do you play golf? >> I don't play golf, I just started playing, 'cause we were doing these golf tournaments with customers over the last year, but I haven't had enough time to get out there yet. >> I'll bet Brooks would give you a lesson or two. (laughs) >> Yeah, he, a lot of people want to lesson from him. >> Charles thank you >> Alright, thank you guys, >> for the time, great show. >> Good to see ya again. See ya in New Orleans. >> Thank you, yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Alright guys, see ya. >> Wonderful week here in Washington, D.C. Back with more live on theCUBE here from D.C. right after this. (bubbly music)

>> Announcer: Live, from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube! Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Inforum, I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Along with my co-host, Dave Vilante. We are joined by Charles Phillips, the CEO of Infor. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Great to be here. Thank you guys for coming. >> So you're fresh off the keynote. A big deal. Thousands of people here at the Javits Center. What would you say is the most exciting to you about being here and what you really want us participants, attendees to come away with? >> Well, there's a lot of energy at the conference. And people can see the investments we've been making. All the innovation. And just the feedback we're getting is just keep doing what you're doing. You guys just really change the industry. The idea of a network commerce and a network ERP coming together is something new. They like the fact that we kind of find these new areas on our own. People are buzzing about Coleman, our new AI announcement, that platform as well. So it's been fun getting the feedback. >> So talk a little bit about Coleman. Talk about the naming of Coleman. >> Yeah, so it's named after Katherine Coleman Johnson, who is one of the early pioneers in NASA. She was a researcher mathematician there to calculate a lot of the orbital fractions that were needed for reentry. And John Glenn relied on her. And she's in the movie, Hidden Figures. And got to know that movie pretty well, because along with about 30 other African American executives, we raised enough money to send almost 30 thousand kids to see the movie for free. We screened it probably three months before it hit the theaters. And a lot of buzz. We didn't know a lot about it ourselves, so we learned a lot about them. So I was excited to say, if we're going to have an AI platform, why not name it after her? Such a pioneer. And it worked out. Her family was at the event and they were just blown away. And they're asking, can I get copies of everything? And taking pictures with us. So, I thought it was the highlight of the show. >> You know, I liked your first slide today and yesterday in the analysts meeting. It basically was your strategy in a nutshell. Micro verticals was sort of the starting point, the decision to go AWS cloud, The GT Nexus network component, burst analytics and then Coleman AI. Just fit together so nicely and it sounds great. And then you also said, look. Cloud and mobile and social, that's table stakes today. It's really sort of a new ball game. So my question is, you know, the slide's nice. It sounds great. How fully baked is it? >> Yeah, well, we're, I think we're, you know, we've had some time now. We're building the network. And so we've been working on figuring out the right integration points and where the value add was. And so, we're already able to kind of ship things like ASM directly to our ERP. And we showed in context where you can click on the order, an M3, for example, and see where it is on an ocean container. So we've already done a lot of that work. And there's only more to come. We want to, we didn't mention it today, but we want to attack the EDI market and commoditize that and have it be a free service. Because we already have a network. We can ship packets around it. Doesn't cost us anything. And we do that for some customers today. So we have more that we could have talked about that we didn't get to. So a lot of it's real today. >> We also heard at the analysts meeting, in great depth, and a little bit today, you had the CFO of Koch industries up there, made a large $2 billion plus investment. Koch is also a customer. And was a customer prior to the announcement of the investment. How did that all come about? Can you share that sort of story with us? >> Yeah, so we had a very successful project at Georgia Pacific. They brought us in because they were frustrated with SAP. It's too expensive, taking to long. We had the micro vertical reaches that could get going quickly. And we collaborated with them and added a few other things they wanted. So that went very well. And kind of, word travels when you come in under budget. (laughter) And one thing led to another. Made a trip to Wichita at their invite, and hit it off very well with Charles Koch. He understood what we did, he's an MIT grad, very technical. So, wasn't sure what I was kind of getting into. But once I started talking to him, he clearly understood everything else. And the more technical the conversation became, the more animated he got. So, clearly he's our kind of guy. We're product people. And so, we hit it off very well. >> And they're becoming a larger customer. You're getting deeper and deeper into that account. But there's an old saying, you know, God created the world in six days but he didn't have an install base. And so, you guys have emerged as this really viable alternative to SAP and Oracle. But how do you go from where they are to this cloud native platform that you guys have developed? >> Well, it'll be one of the largest global implementations ever. Of any financial project, of any HCM. 130,000 employees, which is great. So a project of that scale, that happens usually top down. When they're invested and ready to go. So they have four members on our board. And including the CFO, including the president of Georgia Pacific, and many other important executives. And so the guys who run the divisions, many of them are on our board and learning this stuff and excited. So they're actually pushing us right now. Which we think is great. We have a weekly cadence call with all these senior execs of all the projects to make sure here's where we are, are you getting what you need, are people responding. I mean, they are driving. These people know how to execute. And that's why they're $115 billion. It's great for us, great for them. They're pushing us. So I'm not too worried about that, given what I've seen so far. >> When you think about the long term strategy of Infor, you're now one of the most well-funded unicorns along with Uber and Air B&B. Where do you go? What do you sort of see as sort of the long term play here? >> Yeah, post world domination? (laughter) Then after that, we have other industries we want to get into. There's a few acquisitions we probably will consider. We want to expand our network. These networks grow up by vertical and by industry. There's a few other vertical we want to get into. But the list of things that we could build and what people are asking us to build is almost endless. You know? And they like the way we do these kind of digital transformation projects. There's lots of those out there. And so, we just want to make sure we have the ecosystem where we can implement. That's why it's so important to get a censure, Cap Jim and I, and Grant Thorton and Deloit, they're all taking training as we speak. Filling out their practices. Which we didn't have a year ago. So, that was our kind of constraint to scaling. We just couldn't take on so many projects. But now we can. >> I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the structure of the industry, the software industry specifically. I mean, you're fairly famous for having sort of predicted consolidation, and then orchestrating that consolidation. Mark Andreson's famous for saying software's eating the world. I think Bennioff said there's going to be more non tech companies that are SAS companies than tech companies. Do you expect we'll just see a sort of de-consolidation of software? Or maybe a bi frication? Where maybe some of the enterprise guys acquire, but there's all these burgeoning, blooming flowers of software companies emerging. What's your point of view on the software industry and its structure? >> I think you'll see more industrial companies wanting to own software. I think you'll see software executives running non software companies. Most companies think they have to get digital. And a lot of the board of directors recognize that and recognize they don't have the expertise to do that. And so a lot of software executives get asked to run non tech companies for that reason. Because you can learn retail faster than they can learn how to program. And if you've been building the applications for those verticals, you actually kind of know the vertical pretty well. So I think you'll see some of these domains over time where people have to become more technology fluent. And the way to do that is to bring in tech people. >> The other thing I wanted to ask you sort of as a follow up on that, you see Amazon buys Whole Foods and is getting into grocery, they're a content company. Apple's get the financial services. And you know it's because of digital. It allows you to sort of jump industry value chains. But for decades, people just stay within their own little value chain silo. Do you expect that to change as well? Where executives are able to traverse industries? >> I think so. Technology is causing that. There's enough disruption and fear where people are willing to consider something completely different than they were before. And that helps us, because usually we need someone to either take an action because they see an opportunity or because they're worried about getting disrupted. That's how these big projects get started. That's part of the reason why our growth is so good right now. >> Is that's what's driving it? Is it the fear of being left behind? >> It's probably equal amount of both. They see opportunity, I should be doing something, but I don't know what. So we have to tell them the what. Or, I'm worried about what everybody else is doing. I don't want to get Ubered out. And we tell them how not to be in that position. So we're getting an audience at senior levels that we couldn't before. Just because it's top of mind for everybody. >> How about, talk about MNA a little bit. And what you look for in an acquisition candidate. You have a platform, that's probably dogmatic about running on that platform. But talk a little but more about what you look for. >> We usually want next generation thinking in a technical platform that we don't have to completely rewrite. Because we don't to kind of pollute our architecture. If it's a modern architecture where we can graph it on to our information OS, as we call it, that's fine. So we don't buy things just for scale. And that was kind of early strategy for the company 10 or 15 years ago. We buy things because it's a specific value proposition for customers or fills a hole we think we need to fill. >> Okay. >> I would rather buy something that is small, maybe not much traction, not much revenue, but a great product. Because we have a huge distribution channel and we can grow it pretty quickly. We can fix all those other problems if the product is there. >> Well, the burst acquisition is very interesting because you saw the ascendancy we were talking about earlier, Rebecca. Saw the ascendancy of tableau, and Christian Chabeau, very articulate, would talk about the slow BI companies and really de positioning them. You're positioning is actually quite compelling. Not the old, takes forever to build a cube. And not the lightweight version of just a visualization. You're sort of the best of both worlds. Maybe unpack that a little bit. >> Yeah, that's the attractions we saw in Berson's. You need some of those enterprise features to understand fragmented and enterprise scale data. That's a hard problem. Having a nice desktop tool that can only handle a single table or gives you conflicting information so you can't have any semantic meaning across different data sources. It's nice to get answers quickly, but if they're wrong, that doesn't help you. So, we need somebody who could handle the back end. Our customers were asking us to do that. They want us to be the analytic layer, a system of record for analytics, because other companies don't want to do that. SAP or Oracle will say, just use all my stuff. I don't want to connect to anybody else. And we know that we have to coexist. And if we can build that analytic layer, we think that's strategic high ground. Let's own that. And if we can replace some of the underlying systems later, great. You know? >> I was just going to talk about, I was going to switch gears entirely and talk a little bit about politics. Before the cameras were rolling, you were on Obama's economic recovery board, which was led by Paul Volker. You've been to Washington, met with Trump, met with Pence. I'm curious about how you view the roll of business in advising government. In which directions to take, and the approach. >> I think it's increasingly important in a sense that, especially with the current administration, they should respect business opinion. Because he's a business guy. Secondly, so many of our institutions people don't trust any more. THey've kind of lost some of that credibility. I hope we can turn that around. But in the interim, we have to have other people who can fill in for some of that. And, especially tech companies. People want to know what tech companies think. And so, I think we almost have a duty to try to fill in some of that. And every part of the economy and the government has been effected by technology. They want to understand it. We can help them do that. >> And so many of your customers are in fact municipalities, and cities, and public school systems. >> That's a good point. We have 1500 state and local governments and federal customers. And that's a fast growing part of our business right now. And we're rooting a lot of federal agencies as we speak. Because they're going through an upgrade cycle as well. Something called Fed Round they have to get certified in. And they want to move to the cloud. And we're doing both of those with them. >> Now, you also talked about how you see technology executives perhaps moving into other industries. Do you see them also moving into public service? Do you see that as a possibility? >> That's going to take longer. That's probably later in their careers because of the economics of that. But every now and then, you'll see one do it, yeah. >> So, a question on cloud. It was almost by necessity, I would argue, that you gravitated toward AWS. Smart move. Others have said, you know, Oracle in particular, we're going to own the whole stack. We can make a lot of money owning the whole stack. If you had to do it again, would you pursue that same strategy, and why? >> Well, when we got there, the company was just trying to build a cloud business. We were doing it traditional. Trying to own data centers and, you know, doing data sharing. We could have done that and continued with that over time. But I just thought it wouldn't provide the elastic compute and the scale of data management that I thought was coming. We looked at all the platforms that we out there at the time. We met with Microsoft, IBM, you name it. And at the time, AWS was just so much further along in terms of services available, capabilities, entrepreneurial spirit, scale, it wasn't even close. In our minds, anyway. And so, they were great partners to work with. For us, it's been the right decision. They've helped us a lot. >> Yeah, and seeing your arc as maybe a question. But you're pretty technical. Maybe a better question for Duncan or Soma, but I'll ask you. Because you're more technical than I am. When you look at your architecture slides, there's a lot of Amazon in there. >> There is, yeah. >> There's like this dynamo dv, looks like some kineses, there's S3, there's all kinds of flywheel oriented tech. I wonder if you could sort of elaborate on that in terms of the impact that that has not only on you, but ultimately on your customers. >> Yeah, no. That was by design, by my direction. I wanted to take advantage of every single serviture we could on AWS. Because every time we do that, that's less work for my developers. I don't want them to worried about infrastructure. Just write the application and be an industry expert. So any time they come out with a new service, you name it. Whether it's Promethium, archiving, backup. We were one of the early customers of RedShip. We take advantage of it. Because it's cheaper for us to do it that way and we get the scale that we need. And we get it in multiple countries. So when any other strategy than that, we have to replicate things in multiple places and we have to figure out how to make it work on AWS. >> And I know we're limited on time, but if software's eating the world, software's going to eat the edge. So talk about your edge strategy. >> Well, it depends on what you mean by edge strategy. I think that software eating the world is true. Maybe it's helping the world, is a better way to put it. But almost every product that we see its inside of now. That's actually good for us, being the largest vendor for asset management. Every IOT company is coming to us because all that data is meaningless unless you can generate a work order or requisition and get something fixed, schedule someone to come. That's what we do. So all of that data needs to end up on a repository. That can effect the business process. And we own that business process. >> Well, something that we've said on the Cube since the early days of so-called big data is the practitioners of big data are the guys who are going to do well. It's not necessarily the guys selling big data infrastructure. And that's proven true. You guys never talked ever, I don't think, about big data. But you're a data company now, first. >> Yeah, and we've collected a lot more data than we ever thought we would. And so, now we've got to figure out how to use that. >> How to parse it, how to use it. >> Exactly. Which is why we added the next two layers of that stack. >> That will be next year's summit. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Next year's Inforum. Well, Charles Phillips, thanks so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. >> Great. Thanks you guys. >> See ya, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Valante, we will have more from the Cube's coverage of Inforum after this. (upbeat music)

>> Important place in that history right now is that we're-- >> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE covering Red Hat Summit 2017 brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Red Hat Summit here in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. I'm joined by Todd Wilson and Shea Phillips of the BC Developers Exchange. Thanks so much for joining us today. >> Thanks for having us. >> So the BC Developer's Exchange, you described it to me before the cameras were rolling as helping the British Colombian government think differently. Talk a little, explain, unpack that a bit for our viewers. >> Sure, so it's been a journey for us. We've evolved over awhile, so we've been going for about three years now. What we wanted to do, we recognized that government had fallen behind in its technology practices and technology utilization and we were trying to participate in the tech industry that's growing in BC and we were finding that it was a pretty big gap in understanding. We didn't really speak the same language, we didn't really understand what their needs were, they didn't understand how to work with us and so we started exploring ways to connect better. So one of the things we recognized that we had on our side was technology assets of data. We have tons and tons of data that's valuable to the tech industry to use for their apps. So we first started by opening up that data and then realizing that just open data is part of the story. We need APIs so providing API access and that was just kind of part of the story. We needed to actually start collaborating on solutions. So then we brought the Province into GitHub and we're doing open source collaboration on GitHub and it's kind of morphed into a much bigger picture than we originally started with but it's been a really exciting way to work. >> And your realization that the government was a little bit behind here or you were working in a different track than the government, that's not uncommon, wouldn't you think? The government is not known for innovative practices. So did it take, did it take some persuasion on your part? >> I think that you know, it's mixed. So there are certainly factions within the government that there's a bit of pent up demand, right? So there are people who are very quick to kind of get on the train and then there are other groups who do need convincing and it's kind of a work in progress. So we're building collaboration across government all the time but we certainly didn't have trouble finding people within government and within the tech community who wanted to come along with us. >> So talk about some of the projects that you're working on to make government run better. >> Sure, so there's a couple of examples of how moving into the open source just made sense for government. One example that we've used in a sort of why GitHub makes sense for what we're doing, the Environmental Reporting Branch of the Ministry of the Environment is responsible every year for producing a report on the water quality, air quality, all the basic things that the environmentalists you know, care about and all of the different universities and academic institutions consume this report and then do their analysis on it. One of the things that was always a challenge is there was always kind of wondering, are these numbers cooked? Are you guys actually reporting on the actual findings or are you cleaning it up a little bit? So what the Environmental Reporting Office was able to do is they published the code on GitHub, the data in our Open Data Catalog and it was all there 100% transparent for anybody to recreate the results. So they could download the code, have it running on their laptop. They could download the data, bring it in and run the numbers. What ended up happening after a few months, they got an issue in GitHub. Somebody created an issue, said it's broken, it's not working, I can't get it to go and a little bit of investigation and they found out that the nature of the data, one of the datasets they were using had changed. So it broke the program and so the developer that was responsible for it wasn't going to fix that until next year, next time to run the report. So he said thanks for pointing out the error but you know, I'll be fixing that next year and a day or two went by and all of a sudden out of nowhere he got a pull request in GitHub. The guy who discovered the issue actually went away on the weekend and fixed the code himself and said here, I fixed it for you, it's all ready to go. And so that's sort of that whole community spirit that just starts to grow naturally when citizens can engage with government on such a personal level and work on something together and collaborate in a space that previous to that had been kind of adversarial. There wasn't a lot of trust there, there wasn't sort of that good feeling of are we getting the right information? All of a sudden to turn into a real collaborative partnership, that's the model that we want to see. >> Well I'm wondering if we could turn that example into a real metaphor for what we'd like to see overall with a more engaged citizenry who is people who want to work alongside or with government to solve these problems. >> Exactly yeah, we're all living in the same space. We're all using the same resources. You know, the government is there for the citizens and it's by the citizens, so to be able to work together and work openly is a real strength, real power play. >> So that environmental code that you just gave was a great example. Talk about some other ways that you're working with the government. >> So one example that we have is sort of in an internal sharing scenario. So previously when applications were built within gov, there wasn't an easy way for applications to be shared across different ministries or agencies. So they'd get built and they'd kind of get locked away and used for that one particular business function. What we've been able to do with GitHub and by having shared code is to have projects come along and actually borrow what's been done already and repurpose those applications and that gives them a great starting point. So there's a lot of common things that every application would have to figure out and so by having these starter kits essentially, development teams can get a leg up on taking on new projects and so that reduces the time to market and the cost ultimately and also makes things a little more consistent. >> And what about the project you did with the highways? >> Okay, so that was one where there was a collaboration on a standard for reporting of road incidents. So it's called Open 511 and so this was an international standard that was being developed. So there's various States in the US and Provinces in Canada and a couple of other international jurisdictions that collaborated on this specification for highway event APIs so that data could be shared easily. So the Ministry of Transportation in BC participated in that and collaborated and contributed to it but then they also exposed their data using these APIs. But then they didn't end up building anything on it, they just kind of said here, it's available to use. Go figure it out. So what we really wanted to do there is it's really not the government's job to be building all of the end product apps. We're kind of the resource store for the building blocks and then what ended up happening, an opportunity got recognized by a mobile app developer in Victoria, they saw an opportunity to take these APIs and build a little notification app so that if you put your route in, it'll ping you notifications if there's obstructions or traffic or whatever may have you and show you the webcam image that is on your route. So a really interesting solution that gov never would have built. Like we would never have built a mobile app for that. >> Do you, how do you ensure security? That's one of the biggest themes of this conference is making sure the data is in fact secure, it's what you hear over and over again as a big concern. How do you address that? >> Do you want to, oh yeah I was getting to that. So we have a data center that we run in partnership with HP and the data resides on premise in that data center. What we're using Red Hat OpenShift Container Platform is sort of all the front end facing interfaces would go through OpenShift. So when people are accessing the data, the access in controlled through gateways and however projects get set up in order to control that access. Meanwhile the data is still sitting securely in the network zone back at the mother ship. So what we've found with the OpenShift Container Platform is the developers don't necessarily need to worry about a lot of the tactical policies and network policies that are part of that security standard because that's handled by the platform. When we build OpenShift, we built it compliant to all those policies and so developers can come in to the platform, just start working and as long as they're not punching out data that has personal information out to the internet, you know of course there's things they could do wrong, but as long as they're using the platform as it was intended, they're compliant right from day one. >> In terms of recruiting and retaining talented developers and talented technologists, do you find that a challenge? I mean as we said before, you don't necessarily think of the government as this hotbed of innovation and creativity. Is it difficult to get the best and the brightest to come work for you? >> I think that was actually part of the strategy around adopting tools like containers and open source was actually to make gov more compatible with the IT market. So using the same tools that the private sector uses, so there's a more seamless transition from a recruiting perspective and people can, you know they're not sort of going back in time when they go and work with government. So that was definitely a deliberate part of the strategy. >> So it's the tools but then also the projects. Are you finding coders and engineers who are, who want to dig into these projects? >> They do but we want to work with them in a different way. So we don't necessarily want every developer to be a gov employee. That's really not the model. We would never scale properly that way. So what we've done is we've created a new procurement method. So in government, procurement is hard like it is in a lot of enterprises. Contracts and all of these things get complicated and take time and you have to wait maybe a few months before you actually get the resource that you need. So what we've done is shortened that timeline down as much as we can and also micro-sized the work as much as we can. So if a project is running on GitHub and they have an issue, they can post that issue and put a dollar sign associated with it from 1,000 to $10,000 and kind of do a bounty and say hey development community, we want this fixed, can you do it? So developers can engage with that. They can write a short proposal, 100 words or less of what they will do and then if they get assigned the work and we accept the pull request, we will pay them using PayPal or write them a check or however they want right on the spot. So we can go end-to-end from problem, proposal, code and solution literally in a couple of days whereas before that would have taken a few months and the engagement would have been much larger and much more expensive. >> And are you finding that that is in fact having the impact you want in terms of the workforce that you're trying to attract? >> Yeah, Shea, you want to? >> Yeah, I think there's definitely been interest in the private sector, kind of independent freelance developers are generally pretty excited about this and some of them are downright shocked to see that this is such a progressive thing that the gov has undertaken. >> Yeah, we've had comments from developers saying oh, I never knew working with gov was this easy and that's the way we like to hear it. >> And hopefully it will become easier, too. We think about the government and the technology industry not necessarily working together, particularly when it comes to this new digital world that we're living in and we hear so much about the benefits of automation but also the fact that automation is going to have a big impact on jobs. Do you think that the government and tech need to be thinking together about the effects of this and working together to make sure that we aren't seeing more displaced workers? >> Absolutely, I mean I think we're, you know no one has a crystal ball. Nobody can tell what's going to happen but if we don't start thinking proactively about some of these issues, workforce issues, we're going to be caught flat-footed and so one of the things that we've been trying to prove along is automation doesn't necessarily mean losing jobs and so we've been trying to explore what the workforce shift looks like. So what we find within the little corner of sort of DevOps automation that we're doing is it's not that we're taking jobs away from people, we're just moving them to a different part of the value stream. So they're usually moving further up the value stream closer to the business so that they're actually much more engaged with the day-to-day business of gov and less engaged just with the tech and the plumbing. So by moving automation in, we're actually connecting the business and the technology closer together. >> What are some of the future projects that you envisage working closely with the government to change the way citizens engage with government? >> Sure, we've got a couple of big projects coming up where we are looking at different models of reaching citizens in meaningful ways. So there's a sort of personalized service or some kind of citizen dashboard, however you want to phrase that. That's one of the things that's on our wish list of wouldn't it be great if. We also have partnerships that we're looking to explore in different areas with sort of big data and data analytics. Because government has so much rich resource data, we're looking for ways to get that out and get that available but one of the challenges is just the sheer size of it. So the big data equation and big data analytics are very interesting things for us in the future because if we can provide expertise in that area, then tech sector and industry partners can come and participate with that data and just make it better. >> Well thank you so much for joining us Todd and Shea, I appreciate your time. >> Great, thank you. >> We'll be back with more of theCUBE's coverage of the Red Hat Summit 2017 after this. (up tempo electronic tones)

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(upbeat music) (logo shimmers) >> Good afternoon everyone, and welcome back to AWS re Invent 2022. We are live here from the show floor in Las Vegas, Nevada, we're theCUBE, my name is Savannah Peterson, joined by John Furrier, John, are you excited for the next segment? >> I love the innovation story, this next segment's going to be really interesting, an example of ecosystem innovation in action, it'll be great. >> Yeah, our next guests are actually award-winning, I am very excited about that, please welcome Alan and Becky from IBM. Thank you both so much for being here, how's the show going for ya? Becky you got a, just a platinum smile, I'm going to go to you first, how's the show so far? >> No, it's going great. There's lots of buzz, lots of excitement this year, of course, three times the number of people, but it's fantastic. >> Three times the number of people- >> (indistinct) for last year. >> That is so exciting, so what is that... Do you know what the total is then? >> I think it's over 55,000. >> Ooh, loving that. >> John: A lot. >> It's a lot, you can tell by the hallways- >> Becky: It's a lot. >> John: It's crowded, right. >> Yeah, you can tell by just the energy and the, honestly the heat in here right now is pretty good. Alan, how are you feeling on the show floor this year? >> Awesome, awesome, we're meeting a lot of partners, talking to a lot of clients. We're really kind of showing them what the new IBM, AWS relationship is all about, so, beautiful time to be here. >> Well Alan, why don't you tell us what that partnership is about, to start us off? >> Sure, sure. So the partnership started with the relationship in our consulting services, and Becky's going to talk more about that, right? And it grew, this year it grew into the IBM software realm where we signed an agreement with AWS around May timeframe this year. >> I love it, so, like you said, you're just getting started- >> Just getting started. >> This is the beginning of something magic. >> We're just scratching the surface with this right? >> Savannah: Yeah. >> But it represents a huge move for IBM to meet our clients where they are, right? Meet 'em where they are with IBM technology, enterprise technology they're used to, but with the look and feel and usage model that they're used to with AWS. >> Absolutely and so to build on that, you know, we're really excited to be an AWS Premier Consulting Partner. We've had this relationship for a little over five years with AWS, I'd say it's really gone up a notch over the last year or two as we've been working more and more closely, doubling down on our investments, doubling down on our certifications, we've got over 15,000 people certified now, almost 16,000 actually- >> Savannah: Wow. >> 14 competencies, 16 service deliveries and counting. We cover a mass of information and services from Data Analytics, IoT, AI, all the way to Modernization, SAP, Security Services, right. So it's pretty comprehensive relationship, but in addition to the fantastic clients that we both share, we're doing some really great things around joint industry solutions, which I'll talk about in a few minutes and some of those are being launched at the conference this year, so that's even better. But the most exciting thing to me right now is that we just found out that we won the Global Innovator Partner of the Year award, and a LATAM Partner of the Year award. >> Savannah: Wow. >> John: That's (indistinct) >> So, super excited for IBM Consulting to win this, we're honored and it's just a great, exciting part to the conference. >> The news coming out of this event, we know tomorrow's going to be the big keynote for the new Head of the ecosystem, Ruba. We're hearing that it's going to be all about the ecosystem, enabling value creation, enabling new kinds of solutions. We heard from the CEO of AWS, this nextGen environment's upon us, it's very solution-oriented- >> Becky: Absolutely. >> A lot of technology, it's not an either or, it's an and equation, this is a huge new shift, I won't say shift, a continuation for AWS, and you guys, we've been covering, so you got the and situation going on... Innovation solutions and innovation technology and customers can choose, build a foundation or have it out of the box. What's your reaction to that? Do you think it's going to go well for AWS and IBM? >> I think it fits well into our partnership, right? The the thing you mentioned that I gravitate to the most is the customer gets to choose and the thing that's been most amazing about the partnership, both of these companies are maniacally focused on the customer, right? And so we've seen that come about as we work on ways the customer to access our technology, consume the technology, right? We've sold software on-prem to customers before, right, now we're going to be selling SaaS on AWS because we had customers that were on AWS, we're making it so that they can more easily purchase it by being in the marketplace, making it so they can draw down their committed spin with AWS, their customers like that a lot- [John] Yeah. >> Right. We've even gone further to enable our distributor network and our resellers, 'cause a lot of our customers have those relationships, so they can buy through them. And recently we've enabled the customer to leverage their EDP, their committed spend with AWS against IBM's ELA and structure, right, so you kind of get a double commit value from a customer point of view, so the amazing part is just been all about the customers. >> Well, that's interesting, you got the technology relationship with AWS, you mentioned how they're engaging with the software consumption in marketplace, licensed deals, there's all kinds of new business model innovations on top of the consumption and building. Then you got the consulting piece, which is again, a big part of, Adam calls it "Business transformation," which is the result of digital transformation. So digital transformation is the process, the outcome is the business transformation, that's kind of where it all kind of connects. Becky, what's your thoughts on the Amazon consulting relationships? Obviously the awards are great but- >> They are, no- >> What's the next step? Where does it go from here? >> I think the best way for me to describe it is to give you some rapid flyer client examples, you know, real customer stories and I think that's where it really, rubber meets the road, right? So one of the most recent examples are IBM CEO Arvind Krishna, in his three key results actually mentioned one of our big clients with AWS which is the Department of Veterans Affairs in the US and is an AI solution that's helped automate claims processing. So the veterans are trying to get their benefits, they submit the claims, snail mail, phone calls, you know, some in person, some over email- >> Savannah: Oh, it gives me all the feels hearing you talk about this- >> It's a process that used to take 25 to 30 days depending on the complexity of the claims, we've gotten it down with AWS down to within 24 hours we can get the veterans what they need really quickly so, I mean, that's just huge. And it's an exciting story that includes data analytics, AI and automation, so that's just one example. You know, we've got examples around SAP where we've developed a next generation SAP for HANA Platform for Phillips Carbon Black hosted on AWS, right? For them, it created an integrated, scalable, digital business, that cut out a hundred percent the capital cost from on-prem solutions. We've got security solutions around architectures for telecommunications advisors and of course we have lots of examples of migration and modernization and moving workloads using Red Hat to do that. So there's a lot of great client examples, so to me, this is the heart of what we do, like you said, both companies are really focused on clients, Amazon's customer-obsessed, and doing what we can for our clients together is where we get the impact. >> Yeah, that's one of the things that, it sounds kind of cliche, "Oh we're going to work backwards from the customer," I know Amazon says that, they do, you guys are also very customer-focused but the customers are changing. So I'd love to get your reaction because we're now in that cloud 2.0, I call that 2.0 or you got the Amazon Classic, my word, and then Next Gen Cloud coming, the customers are different, they're transforming because IT's not a department anymore, it's in the DevOps pipeline. The developers are driving a lot of IT but security and on DataOps, it's the structural change happening at the customer, how do you guys see that at IBM? I know we cover a lot of Red Hat and Arvind talks to us all the time, meeting the customer where they are, where are they? Where are the customers? Can you share your perspective on where they are? >> It's an astute observation, right, the customer is changing. We have both of those sets of customers, right, we still have the traditional customer, our relationship with Central IT, right, and driving governance and all of those things. But the folks that are innovating many times they're in the line of business, they're discovering solutions, they're building new things. And so we need our offerings to be available to them. We need them to understand how to use them and be convenient for these guys and take them through that process. So that change in the customer is one that we are embracing by making our offerings easy to consume, easy to use, and easy to build into solutions and then easy to parlay into what central IT needs to do for governance, compliance, and these types of things, it's becoming our new bread and butter. >> And what's really cool is- >> Is that easy button- >> We've been talking about- >> It's the easy button. >> The easy button a lot on the show this week and if you just, you just described it it's exactly what people want, go on Becky. >> Sorry about that, I was going to say, the cool part is that we're co-creating these things with our clients. So we're using things like the Amazon Working Backward that you just mentioned.` We're using the IBM garage methodology to get innovative to do design working, design thinking workshops, and think about where is that end user?, Where is that stakeholder? Where are they, they thinking, feeling, doing, saying how do we make the easier? How do we get the easy button for them so that they can have the right solutions for their businesses. We work mostly with lines of business in my part of the organization, and they're hungry for that. >> You know, we had a quote on theCUBE yesterday, Savannah remember one of our guests said, you know, back in the, you know, 1990s or two 2000s, if you had four production apps, it was considered complex >> Savannah: Yeah. >> You know, now you got hundreds of workloads, thousands of workloads, so, you know, this end-to-end vision that we heard that's playing out is getting more complex, but the easy button is where these abstraction layers and technology could come in. So it's getting more complex because there's more stuff but it's getting easier because- >> Savannah: What is the magnitude? >> You can make it easier. This is a dynamic, share your thoughts on that. >> It's getting more complex because our clients need to move faster, right, they need to be more agile, right, so not only are there thousands of applications there are hundreds of thousands microservices that are composing those applications. So they need capabilities that help them not just build but govern that structure and put the right compliance over that structure. So this relationship- >> Savannah: Lines of governance, yeah- >> This relationship we built with AWS is in our key areas, it's a strategic move, not a small thing for us, it covers things like automation and integration where you need to build that way. It covers things like data and AI where you need to do the analytics, even things like sustainability where we're totally aligned with what AWS is talking about and trying to do, right, so it's really a good match made there. >> John: It really sounds awesome. >> Yeah, it's clear. I want to dig in a little bit, I love the term, and I saw it in my, it stuck out to me in the notes right away, getting ready for you all, "maniacal", maniacal about the customer, maniacal about the community, I think that's really clear when we're talking about 24 days to 24 hours, like the veteran example that you gave right there, which I genuinely felt in my heart. These are the types of collaborations that really impact people's lives, tell me about some of the other trends or maybe a couple other examples you might have because I think sometimes when our head's in the clouds, we talk a lot about the tech and the functionality, we forget it's touching every single person walking around us, probably in a different way right now than we may even be aware- >> I think one of the things that's been, and our clients have been asking us for, is to help coming into this new era, right, so we've come out of a pandemic where a lot of them had to do some really, really basic quick decisions. Okay, "Contact Center, everyone work from home now." Okay, how do we do that? Okay, so we cobbled something together, now we're back, so what do we do? How do we create digital transformation around that so that we are going forward in a really positive way that works for our clients or for our contact center reps who are maybe used to working from home now versus what our clients need, the response times they need, and AWS has all the technology that we're working with like Amazon Connect to be able to pull those things together with some of our software like Watson Assistant. So those types of solutions are coming together out of that need and now we're moving into the trend where economy's getting tougher, right? More cost cutting potentially is coming, right, better efficiencies, how do we leverage our solutions and help our clients and customers do that? So I think that's what the customer obsession's about, is making sure we really understand where their pain points are, and not just solve them but maybe get rid of 'em. >> John: Yeah, great one. >> Yeah. And not developing in a silo, I mean, it's a classic subway problem, you got to be communicating with your community if you want to continue to serve them. And IBM's been serving their community for a very long time, which is super impressive, do you think they're ready for the challenge? >> Let's do it. >> So we have a new thing on theCUBE. >> Becky: Oh boy. >> We didn't warn you about this, but here we go. Although you told, Alan, you've mentioned you're feeling very cool with the microphone on, so I feel like, I'm going to put you in the hot seat first on this one. Not that I don't think Becky's going to smash it, but I feel like you're channeling the power of the microphone. New challenges, treat it like a 32nd Instagram reel-style story, a hot take, your thought leadership, money clip, you know, this is your moment. What is the biggest takeaway, most important thing happening at the show this year? >> Most important thing happening at the show? Well, I'm glad you mentioned it that way, because earlier you said we may have to sing (presenters and guests all laughing) >> So this is much better than- >> That's actually part of the close. >> John: Hey, hey. >> Don't worry, don't worry, I haven't forgotten that, it's your Instagram reel, go. (Savannah laughs) >> Original audio happening here on theCUBE, courtesy of Alan and IBM, I am so here for it. >> So what my takeaway and what I would like for the audience to take away, out of this conversation especially, but even broadly, the IBM AWS relationship is really like a landmark type of relationship, right? It's one of the biggest that we've established on both sides, right- >> Savannah: It seems huge, okay you are too monolith in the world of companies, like, yeah- >> Becky: Totally. >> It's huge. And it represents a strategic change on both sides, right? With that customer- >> Savannah: Fundamentally- >> In the middle right? >> Savannah: Yeah. >> So we're seeing things like, you know, AWS is working with us to make sure we're building products the way that a AWS client likes to consume them, right, so that we have the right integration, so they get that right look and feel, but they still get the enterprise level capabilities they're used to from IBM, right? So the big takeaway I like for people to take, is this is a new IBM, it's a new AWS and IBM relationship, and so expect more of that goodness, more of those new things coming out of it. [John] Excellent, wow. >> That was great, well done, you nailed it. and you're going to finish with some acapella, right? (Alan laughs) >> You got a pitch pipe ready? (everyone laughs) >> All right Becky, what about you? Give us your hot take. >> Well, so for me, the biggest takeaway is just the way this relationship has grown so much, so, like you said, it's the new IBM it's the new AWS, we were here last year, we had some good things, this year we're back at the show with joint solutions, have been jointly funded and co-created by AWS and IBM. This is huge, this is a really big opportunity and a really big deal that these two companies have come together, identified joint customer needs and we're going after 'em together and we're putting 'em in the booth. >> Savannah: So cool. And there's things like smart edge for welding solutions that are out there. >> Savannah: Yes. >> You know, I talked about, and it's, you know you wouldn't think, "Okay, well what's that?" There's a lot to that, a lot of saving when you look at how you do welding and if you apply things like visual AI and auditory AI to make sure a weld is good. I mean, I think these are, these things are cool, I geek out on these things- >> John: Every vertical. >> I'm geeking out with you right now, just geeking- >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, so- >> Every vertical is infected. >> They are and it's so impactful to have AWS just in lockstep with us, doing these solutions, it's so different from, you know, you kind of create something that you think your customers like and then you put it out there. >> Yeah, versus this moment. >> Yeah, they're better together. >> It's strategic partnership- >> It's truly a strategic partnership. and we're really bringing that this year to reinvent and so I'm super excited about that. >> Congratulations. >> Wow, well, congratulations again on your awards, on your new partnership, I can't wait to hear, I mean, we're seven months in, eight months in to this this SaaS side of the partnership, can't wait to see what we're going to be talking about next year when we have you back on theCUBE. >> I know. >> and maybe again in between now and then. Alan, Becky, thank you both so much for being here, this was truly a joy and I'm sure you gave folks a taste of the new IBM, practicing what you preach. >> John: Great momentum. >> And I'm just, I'm so impressed with the two companies collaborating, for those of us OGs in tech, the big companies never collaborated before- >> Yeah. >> John: Yeah. Joint, co-created solutions. >> And you have friction between products and everything else. I mean's it's really, co-collaboration is, it's a big theme for us at all the shows we've been doing this year but it's just nice to see it in practice too, it's an entirely different thing, so well done. >> Well it's what gets me out of the bed in the morning. >> All right, congratulations. >> Very clearly, your energy is contagious and I love it and yeah, this has been great. Thank all of you at home or at work or on the International Space Station or wherever you might be tuning in from today for joining us, here in Las Vegas at AWS re Invent where we are live from the show floor, wall-to-wall coverage for three days with John Furrier. My name is Savannah Peterson, we're theCUBE, the source for high tech coverage. (cheerful upbeat music)

>>Welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here live in San Francisco for VMware Explorer. Formerly got it. World. We've been to every world since 2010. Now is VMware Explorer. I'm John furier host with Dave ante with Dave lium here. He's the chief cloud strategy officer at Deloitte. Welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate your time. >>Thanks for having me. It's >>Epic keynote today on stage all seven minutes of your great seven minutes >>Performance discussion. Yes. Very, very, very, very quick to the order. I brought everybody up to speed and left. >>Well, Dave's great to have you on the cube one. We follow your work. We've been following for a long time. Thank you. A lot of web services, a lot of SOA, kind of in your background, kind of the old web services, AI, you know, samples, RSS, web services, all that good stuff. Now it's, it's now we're in kind of web services on steroids. Cloud came it's here. We're NextGen. You wrote a great story on Metacloud. You've been following the Supercloud with Dave. Does VMware have it right? >>Yeah, they do. Because I'll tell you what the market is turning toward. Anything that sit above and between the clouds. So things that don't exist in the hyperscaler, things that provide common services above the cloud providers are where the growth's gonna happen. We haven't really solved that problem yet. And so there's lots of operational aspects, security aspects, and the ability to have some sort of a brokering service that'll scale. So multi-cloud, which is their strategy here is not about cloud it's about things that exist in between cloud and making those things work. So getting to another layer of abstraction and automation to finally allow us to make use out of all these hyperscaler services that we're signing on today. Dave, >>Remember the old days back in the eighties, when we were young bucks coming into the business, the interoperability wave was coming. Remember that? Oh yeah, I got a deck mini computer. I got an IBM was gonna solve that unex. And then, you know, this other thing over here and lands and all and everything started getting into this whole, okay. Networking. Wasn't just coax. You started to see segment segments. Interoperability was a huge, what 10 year run. It feels like that's kind of like the vibe going on here. >>Yeah. We're not focused on having these things interop operate onto themselves. So what we're doing is putting a layer of things which allows them to interop operate. That's a different, that's a different problem to solve. And it's also solvable. We were talking about getting all these very distinct proprietary systems to communicate one to another and interate one to another. And that never really happened. Right? Cause you gotta get them to agree on interfaces and protocols. But if you put a layer above it, they can talk down to whatever native interfaces that are there and deal with the differences between the heterogeneity and abstract yourself in the complexity. And that's, that's kind of the different that works. The ability to kind of get everybody, you know, clunk their heads together and make them work together. That doesn't seem to scale couple >>And, and people gotta be motivated for that. Not many people might not >>Has me money. In other words has to be a business for them in doing so. >>A couple things I wanna follow up on from work, you know, this morning they used the term cloud chaos. When you talk to customers, you know, when they have multiple clouds, do they, are they saying to you, Hey, we have cloud chaos are, do they have cloud chaos? And they don't know it or do they not have cloud chaos? What's the mix. >>Yeah. I don't think the word chaos is used that much, but they do tell me they're hitting a complexity wall, which you do here out there as a term. So in other words, they're getting to a point where they can't scale operations to deal with a complexity and heterogeneity that they're, that they're bringing into the organization because using multiple clouds. So that is chaotic. So I guess that, you know, it is another way to name complexity. So there's so many services are moving from a thousand cloud services, under management to 3000 cloud services under management. They don't have the operational team, the skill, skill levels to do it. They don't have the tooling to do it. That's a wall. And you have to be able to figure out how to get beyond that wall to make those things work. So >>When, when we had our conversation about Metacloud and Supercloud, we we've, I think very much aligned in our thinking. And so now you've got this situation where you've got these abstraction layers, but, and there, but my question is, are we gonna have multiple abstraction layers? And will they talk to each other or are standards emerging? Will they be able to, >>No, we can't have multiple abstraction layers else. We just, we don't solve the problem. We go from complexity of exists at the native cloud levels to complexity of exists, that this thing we're dealing with to deal with complexity. So if you do that, we're screwing up. We have to go back and fix it. So ultimately this is about having common services, common security, layers, common operational layers, and things like that that are really reduced redundancy within the system. So instead of having a, you know, five different security layers and five different cloud providers, we're layering one and providing management and orchestration capabilities to make that happen. If we don't do that, we're not succeeding. >>What do you think about the marketplace? I know there's a lot of things going on that are happening around this. Wanna get your thoughts on obviously the industry dynamics, vendors preserving their future. And then you've got customers who have been leveraging the CapEx, goodness of say Amazon and then have to solve their whole distributed environment problem. So when you look at this, is it really solving? Is it is the order of operations first common layer abstraction because you know, it seems like the vendor, I won't say desperation move, but like their first move is we're gonna be the control plane or, you know, I think Cisco has a vision in their mind that no, no we're gonna have that management plane. I've heard a lot of people talking about, we're gonna be the management interface into something. How do you see that playing out? Because the order of operations to do the abstraction is to get consensus, right, right. First not competition. Right. So how do you see that? What's your reaction to that? And what's your observation. >>I think it's gonna be tough for the people who are supplying the underlying services to also be the orchestration and abstraction layers, because they're, they're kind of conflicted in making that happen. In other words, it's not in their best interest to make all these things work and interoperate one to another, but it's their best interest to provide, provide a service that everybody's going to leverage. So I see the layers here. I'm certainly the hyperscalers are gonna play in those layers and then they're welcome to play in those layers. They may come up with a solution that everybody picks, but ultimately it's about independence and your ability to have an objective way of, of allowing all these things to communicate together and driving this, driving this stuff together, to reduce the complexity again, to reduce. >>So a network box, for instance, maybe have hooks into it, but not try to dominate it >>Or that's right. Yeah, that's right. I think if you're trying to own everything and I get that a lot when I write about Supercloud and, and Metacloud they go, well, we're the Metacloud, we're the Supercloud you can't be other ones. That's a huge problem to solve. I know you don't have a solution for that. Okay. It's gonna be many different products to make that happen. And the reality is people who actually make that work are gonna have to be interdependent independent of the various underlying services. They're gonna, they can support them, but they really can't be them. They have to be an interate interop. They have to interoperate with those services. >>Do you, do you see like a w three C model, like the worldwide web consortium, remember that came out around 96, came to the us and MIT and then helped for some of those early standards in, in, in the internet, not DNS, but like the web, but DNS was already there and internet was already there, but like the web standards HTML kind of had, I think wasn't really hardcore get you in the headlock, but at least it was some sort of group that said, Hey, intellectually be honest, you see that happening in this area. >>I hope not. And here's >>Why not. >>Yeah. >>Here's, here's why the reality is is that when these consortiums come into play, it freezes the market. Everybody waits for the consortium to come up with some sort of a solution that's gonna save the world. And that solution never comes because you can't get these organizations through committee to figure out some sort of a technology stack that's gonna be working. So I'd rather see the market figure that out. Not a consortium when >>I, you mean the ecosystem, not some burning Bush. >>Yeah. Not some burning Bush. And it just hasn't worked. I mean, if it worked, it'd be great. And >>We had a, an event on August 9th, it was super cloud 22 and we had a security securing the super cloud panel. And one of my was a great conversation as you remember, John, but it was kind of depressing in that, like we're never gonna solve this problem. So what are you seeing in the security front? You know, it seems to like that's a main blocker to the Metacloud the Supercloud >>Yeah. The reality is you can't build all the security services in, in the Metacloud. You have to basically leverage the security services on the native cloud and leverage them as they exist. So this idea that we're gonna replace all of these security services with one layer of abstraction, that's gonna provide the services. So you don't need these underlying security systems that won't work. You have to leverage the native security systems, native governance, native operating interfaces, native APIs of all the various native clouds using the terms that they're looking to leverage. And that's the mistake. I think people are going to make, you don't need to replace something that's working. You just may need to make it easier to >>Use. Let's ask Dave about the, sort of the discussion that was on Twitter this morning. So when VMware announced their, you know, cross cloud services and, and the whole new Tansu one, three, and, and, and, and aria, there was a little chatter on Twitter basically saying, yeah, but VMware they'll never win the developers. And John came and said, well, hi, hang on. You know, if, if you've got open tools and you're embracing those, it's really about the ops and having standards on the op side. And so my question to you is, does VMware, that's >>Not exactly what I said, but close enough, >>Sorry. I mean, I'm paraphrasing. You can fine tune it, but, but does VMware have to win the developers or are they focused on kind of the right areas that whole, you know, op side of DevOps >>Focused on the op side, cuz that's the harder problem to solve. Developers are gonna use whatever tools they need to use to build these applications and roll them out. And they're gonna change all the time. In other words, they're gonna change the tools and technologies to do it in the supply chain. The ops problem is the harder problem to solve the ability to get these things working together and, and running at a certain point of reliability where the failure's not gonna be there. And I think that's gonna be the harder issue and doing that without complexity. >>Yeah. That's the multi-cloud challenge right there. I agree. The question I want to also pivot on that is, is that as we look at some of the reporting we've done and interviews, data and security really are hard areas. People are tune tuning up DevOps in the developer S booming, everyone's going fast, fast and loose. Shifting left, all that stuff's happening. Open source, booming Toga party. Everyone's partying ops is struggling to level up. So I guess the question is what's the order of operations from a customer. So a lot of customers have lifted and shift. The, some are going all in on say, AWS, yeah, I got a little hedge with Azure, but I'm not gonna do a full development team. As you talk to customers, cuz they're the ones deploying the clouds that want to get there, right? What's the order of operations to do it properly in your mind. And what's your advice as you look at as a strategy to, to do it, right? I mean, is there a playbook or some sort of situational, you know, sequence, >>Yes. One that works consistently is number one, you think about operations up front and if you can't solve operations, you have no business rolling out other applications and other databases that quite frankly can't be operated and that's how people are getting into trouble. So in other words, if you get into these very complex architectures, which is what a multicloud is, complex distributed system. Yeah. And you don't have an understanding of how you're gonna operationalize that system at scale, then you have no business in building the system. You have no business of going in a multicloud because you are going to run into that wall and it's gonna lead to a, an outage it's gonna lead to a breach or something that's gonna be company killing. >>So a lot of that's cultural, right. Having, having the cultural fortitude to say, we're gonna start there. We're gonna enforce these standards. >>That's what John CLE said. Yeah. CLE is famous line. >>Yeah, you're right. You're right. So, so, so what happens if the, if that as a consultant, if you, you probably have to insist on that first, right? Or, I mean, I don't know, you probably still do the engagement, but you, you're gonna be careful about promising an outcome aren't you, >>You're gonna have to insist on the fact they're gonna have to do some advanced planning and come up with a very rigorous way in which they're gonna roll it out. And the reality is if they're not doing that, then the advice would be you're gonna fail. So it's not a matter of when it's, when it's gonna happen. We're gonna, but at some point you're gonna fail either. Number one, you're gonna actually fail in some sort of a big disastrous event or more likely or not. You're gonna end up building something that's gonna cost you $10 million more a month to run and it's gonna be underoptimized. And is >>That effective when you, when you say that to a client or they say, okay, but, or do they say yes, you're >>Right. I view my role as a, someone like a doctor and a lawyer. You may not want to hear what I'm telling you. But the thing is, if I don't tell you the truth and I'm not doing my job as a trusted advisor. And so they'll never get anything but that from us, you know, as a firm and the reality is they can make their own decisions and will have to help them, whatever path they want to go. But we're making the warnings in place to make. >>And, and also also situationally it's IQ driven. Are they ready? What's their makeup. Are they have the kind of talent to execute. And there's a lot of unbeliev me. I totally think agree with on the op side, I think that's right on the money. The question I want to ask you is, okay, assume that someone has the right makeup of team. They got some badass people in there, coding away, DevOps, SREs, you name it. Everyone lined up platform teams, as they said today on stage, all that stuff. What's the CXO conversation at the boardroom that you, you have around business strategy. Cuz if you assume that cloud is here and you do things right and you get the right advisors in the next step is what does it transform my business into? Because you're talking about a fully digitalized business that converges it's not just, it helps you run an app back office with some terminal it's full blown business edge app business model innovation is it that the company becomes a cloud on their own and they have scale. And they're the super cloud of their category servicing a power law of second place, third place, SMB market. So I mean, Goldman Sachs could be the service provider cloud for financial services maybe. Or is that the dream? What, what's the dream for the, the, the CXO staff take us through the, >>What they're trying to do is get a level of automation with every able to leverage best breed technology to be as innovative as they possibly can. Using an architecture that's near a hundred percent optimized. It'll never be a hundred percent optimized. Therefore it's able to run, bring the best value to the business for the least amount of money. That's the big thing. If they want to become a cloud, that's, that's not a, not necessarily a good idea. If they're finance company be a finance company, just build these innovations around how to make a finance company be innovative and different for them. So they can be a disruptor without being disrupted. I see where see a lot of companies right now, they're gonna be exposed in the next 10 years because a lot of these smaller companies are able to weaponize technology to bring them to the next level, digital transformations, whatever, to create a business value. That's gonna be more compelling than the existing player >>Because they're on the CapEx back of Amazon or some technical innovation. Is that what the smaller guys, what's the, what's the lever that beats the >>It's the ability to use whatever technology you need to solve your issues. So in other words, I can use anything that exists on the cloud because it's part of the multi-cloud I'm I able to find the services that I need, the best AI system, the best database systems, the fastest transaction processing system, and assemble these syncs together to solve more innovative problems in my competitor. If I'm able to do that, I'm gonna win the game. So >>It's a buffet of technology. Pick your yes, your meal, come on, >>Case spray something, this operations, first thing in my head, remember Alan NA, when he came in the Cub and he said, listen, if you're gonna do cloud, you better change the operating model or you you're gonna make, you know, you'll drop millions to the bottom line. He was at CIO of Phillips at the time. You're not gonna drop billions. And it's all about, you know, the zeros, right? So do you find yourself in a lot of cases, sort of helping people rearchitect their operating model as a function of, of, of what cloud can, can enable? >>Yeah. Every, every engagement that we go into has operating model change op model changes, and typically it's gonna be major surgery. And so it's re reevaluating the skill sets, reevaluating, the operating model, reevaluating the culture. In fact, we have a team of people who come in and that's all they focus on. And so it used to be just kind of an afterthought. We'd put this together, oh, by the way, I think you need to do this and this and this. And here's what we recommend you do. But people who can go in and get cultural changes going get the operating models systems, going to get to the folks where they're gonna be successful with it. Reality. If you don't do that, you're gonna fail because you're not gonna have the ability to adapt to a cloud-based a cloud-based infrastructure. You can leverage this scale. >>David's like a masterclass here on the cube at VMware explore. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for spending the valuable time. Just what's going on in your world right now, take a quick minute to plug what's going on with you. What are you working on? What are you excited about? What what's happening, >>Loving life. I'm just running around doing, doing things like this, doing a lot of speaking, you know, still have the blog on in info world and have that for the last 12 years and just loving the fact that we're innovating and changing the world. And I'm trying to help as many people as I can, as quickly as I can. What's >>The coolest thing you've seen this year in terms of cloud kind of either weirdness coolness or something that made you fall outta your chair. Wow. That >>Was cool. I think the AI capabilities and application of AI, I'm just seeing use cases in there that we never would've thought about the ability to identify patterns that we couldn't identify in the past and do so for, for the good, I've been an AI analyst. It was my first job outta college and I'm 60 years old. So it's, it's matured enough where it actually impresses me. And so we're seeing applications >>Right now. That's NLP anymore. Is it? >>No, no, not list. That's what I was doing, but it's, we're able to take this technology to the next level and do, do a lot of good with it. And I think that's what just kind of blows me on the wall. >>Ah, I wish we had 20 more minutes, >>You know, one, one more masterclass sound bite. So we all kind of have kids in college, David and I both do young ones in college. If you're coming outta college, CS degree or any kind of smart degree, and you have the plethora of now what's coming tools and unlimited ways to kind of clean canvas up application, start something. What would you do if you were like 22? Right now, >>I would focus on being a multi-cloud architect. And I would learn a little about everything. Learn a little about at the various cloud providers. And I would focus on building complex distributed systems and architecting those systems. I would learn about how all these things kind of kind of run together. Don't learn a particular technology because that technology will ultimately go away. It'll be displaced by something else, learn holistically what the technologies is able to do and become the orchestrator of that technology. It's a harder problem to solve, but you'll get paid more for it. And it'll be more fun job. >>Just thinking big picture, big >>Picture, how everything comes together. True architecture >>Problems. All right, Dave is on the queue masterclass here on the cube. Bucha for Dave ante Explorer, 2022. Live back with our next segment. After this short break.

(upbeat music) >> Okay, we're back covering AWS Storage Day 2022 with Ashish Palekar. Who's the general manager of AWS EBS Snapshot and Edge and Cami Tavares. Who's the head of product at Amazon EBS. Thanks for coming back in theCube guys. Great to see you again. >> Great to see you as well, Dave. >> Great to see you, Dave. Ashish, we've been hearing a lot today about companies all kinds of applications to the cloud and AWS and using their data in new ways. Resiliency is always top of mind for companies when they think about just generally their workloads and specifically the clouds. How should they think about customers think about data resiliency? >> Yeah, when we think about data resiliency it's all about making sure that your application data, the data that your application needs is available when it needs it. It's really the ability for your workload to mitigate disruptions or recover from them. And to build that resilient architecture you really need to understand what kinds of disruptions your applications can experience. How broad the impact of those disruptions is, and then how quickly you need to recover. And a lot of this is a function of what the application does, how critical it is. And the thing that we constantly tell customers is, this works differently in the cloud than it does in a traditional on-premises environment. >> What's different about the cloud versus on-prem? Can you explain how it's different? >> Yeah, let me start with a video on-premises one. And in the on-premises one, building resilient architectures is really the customer's responsibility, and it's very challenging. You'll start thinking about what your single points of failure are. To avoid those, you have to build in redundancy, you might build in replication as an example for storage and doing this now means you have to have provision more hardware. And depending on what your availability requirements are, you may even have to start looking for multiple data centers, some in the same regions, some in different geographical locations. And you have to ensure that you're fully automated, so that your recovery processes can take place. And as you can see that's a lot of owners being placed on the customer. One other thing that we hear about is really elasticity and how elasticity plays into the resiliency for applications. As an example, if you experience a sudden spike in workloads, in a on-premises environment, that can lead to resource saturation. And so really you have two choices. One is to sort of throttle the workload and experience resiliency, or your second option becomes buying additional hardware and securing more capacity and keeping it fair low in case of experiencing such a spike. And so your two propositions that are either experiencing resiliency, challenges or paying really to have infrastructure that's lying around. And both of those are different really when you start thinking about the cloud. >> Yeah, there's a third option too, which is lose data, which is not an option. Go ahead- >> Which is not, yeah, I pretty much as a storage person, that is not an option. The reason about that that we think is reasonable for customers to take. The big contrast in the cloud really comes with how we think about capacity. And fundamentally the the cloud gives you that access to capacity so you are not managing that capacity. The infrastructure complexity and the cost associated with that are also just a function of how infrastructure is built really in the cloud. But all of that really starts with the bedrock of how we design for avoiding single points of failure. The best way to explain this is really to start thinking about our availability zones. Typically these availability zones consist of multiple data centers, located in the same regional area to enable high throughput and low latency for applications. But the availability zones themselves are physically independent. They have independent connections to utility power, standalone backup power resources, independent mechanical services and independent network connectivity. We take availability zone independence extremely seriously, so that when customers are building the availability of their workload, they can architect using these multiple zones. And that is something that when I'm talking to customers or Tami is talking to customers, we highly encourage customers to keep in mind as they're building resiliency for their applications. >> Right, so you can have within an availability zone, you can have, you know, instantaneous, you know when you're doing it right. You've got, you've captured that data and you can asynchronously move to outside of that in case there's, the very low probability, but it does happen, you get some disasters. You're minimizing that RPO. And I don't have to worry about that as a customer and figuring out how to do three site data centers. >> That's right. Like that even further, now imagine if you're expanding globally. All those things that we described about like creating new footprint and creating a new region and finding new data centers. As a customer in an on-premises environment, you take that on yourself. Whereas with AWS, because of our global presence, you can expand to a region and bring those same operational characteristics to those environments. And so again, bringing resiliency as you're thinking about expanding your workload, that's another benefit that you get from using the availability zone region architecture that AWS has. >> And as Charles Phillips, former CEO of Infor said, "Friends, don't let friends build data center," so I don't have to worry about building the data center. Let's bring Cami into the discussion here. Cami, think about elastic block storage, it gives, you know customers, you get persistent block storage for EC2 instances. So it's foundational for any mission critical or business critical application that you're building on AWS. How do you think about data resiliency in EBS specifically? I always ask the question, what happens if something goes wrong? So how should we think about data resiliency in EBS specifically? >> Yeah, you're right Dave, block storage is a really foundational piece. When we talk to customers about building in the cloud or moving an application to the cloud, and data resiliency is something that comes up all the time. And with EBS, you know EBS is a very large distributed system with many components. And we put a lot of thought and effort to build resiliency into EBS. So we design those components to operate and fail independently. So when customers create an EBS volume for example, we'll automatically choose the best storage nodes to address the failure domain and the data protection strategy for each of our different volume types. And part of our resiliency strategy also includes separating what we call a volume life cycle control plane. Which are things like creating a volume, or attaching a volume to an EC2 instance. So we separate that control plane, from the storage data plane, which includes all the components that are responsible for serving IO to your instance, and then persisting it to durable media. So what that means is once a volume is created and attached to the instance, the operations on that volume they're independent from the control point function. So even in the case of an infrastructure event, like a power issue, for example, you can recreate an EBS volume from a snapshot. And speaking of snapshots, that's the other core pillar of resiliency in EBS. Snapshots are point in time copies of EBS volumes that would store in S3. And snapshots are actually a regional service. And that means internally we use multiple of the availability zones that Ashish was talking about to replicate your data so that the snapshots can withstand the failure of an availability zone. And so thanks to that availability zone independence, and then this builtin component independence, customers can use that snapshot and recreate an EBS following another AZO or even in another region if they need to. >> Great so, okay, so you touched on some of the things EBS does to build resiliency into the service. Now thinking about over your right shoulders, you know, Joan Deviva, so what can organizations do to build more resilience into their applications on EBS so they can enjoy life without anxiety? >> (laughs) That is a great question. Also something that we love to talk to customers about. And the core thing to think about here is that we don't believe in a one size fits all approach. And so what we are doing in EBS is we give customers different tools so that they can design a resiliency strategy that is custom tailored for their data. And so to do this, this resiliency assessment, you have to think about the context of this specific workload and ask questions like what other critical services depend on this data and what will break if this data's not available and how long can can those systems withstand that, for example. And so the most important step I'll mention it again, snapshots, that is a very important step in a recovery plan. Make sure you have a backup of your data. And so we actually recommend that customers take the snapshots at least daily. And we have features that make that easier for you. For example, Data Lifecycle Manager which is a feature that is entirely free. It allows you to create backup policies, and then you can automate the process of creating the snapshot, so it's very low effort. And then when you want to use that backup to recreate a volume, we have a feature called Fast Snapshot Restore, that can expedite the creation of the volume. So if you have a more, you know a shorter recovery time objective you can use that feature to expedite the recovery process. So that's backup. And then the other pillar we talked to customers about is data replication. Just another very important step when you're thinking about your resiliency and your recovery plans. So with EBS, you can use replication tools that work at the level of the operating system. So that's something like DRBD for example. Or you can use AWS Elastic Disaster Recovery, and that will replicate your data across availability zones or nearby regions too. So we talked about backup and replication, and then the last topic that we recommend customers think about is having a workload monitoring solution in place. And you can do that in EBS, using cloud watch metrics. So you can monitor the health of your EBS volume using those metrics. We have a lot of tips in our documentation on how to measure that performance. And then you can use those performance metrics as triggers for automated recovery workflows that you can build using tools like auto scaling groups for example. >> Great, thank you for that advice. Just quick follow up. So you mentioned your recommendation, at least daily, what kind of granularity, if I want to compress my RPO can I go at a more granular level? >> Yes, you can go more granular and you can use again the daily lifecycle manager to define those policies. >> Great, thank you. Before we go, I want to just quickly cover what's new with EBS. Ashish, maybe you could talk about, I understand you've got something new today. You've got an announcement, take us through that. >> Yeah, thanks for checking in and I'm so glad you asked. We talked about how snapshots help resilience and are a critical part of building resilient architectures. So customers like the simplicity of backing up their EC2 instances, using multi volume snapshots. And what they're looking for is the ability to back up only to exclude specific volumes from the backup, especially those that don't need backup. So think of applications that have cash data, or applications that have temporary data that really doesn't need backup. So today we are adding a new parameter to the create snapshots API, which creates a crash consistent set of snapshots for volumes attached to an EC2 instance. Where customers can now exclude specific volumes from an instance backup. So customers using data life cycle manager that can be touched on, can automate their backups. And again they also get to exclude these specific volumes. So really the feature is not just about convenience, but it's also to help customers save on cost. As many of these customers are managing tens of thousands of snapshots. And so we want to make sure they can take it at the granularity that they need it. So super happy to bring that into the hands of customers as well. >> Yeah, that's a nice option. Okay, Ashish, Cami thank you so much for coming back in theCube, helping us learn about what's new and what's cool and EBS, appreciate your time. >> Thank you for having us Dave. >> Thank you for having us Dave. >> You're very welcome now, if you want to learn more about EBS resilience, stay right here because coming up, we've got a session which is a deep dive on protecting mission critical workloads with Amazon EBS. Stay right there, you're watching theCube's coverage of AWS Storage Day 2022. (calm music)

>>Hello. Welcome back to our super cloud 22 event. I'm John F host the cue with my co-host Dave ante. Extracting the signal from noise. We're proud to have two amazing cube alumnis here. We got Sanja Putin. Who's now the CEO of cohesive the emo Aaron who's the CTO. Co-founder also former CEO Cub alumni. The father of hyper-converged welcome back to the cube I endorsed the >>Cloud. Absolutely. Is the father. Great >>To see you guys. Thank thanks for coming on and perfect timing. The new job taking over that. The helm Mo it at cohesive big news, but part of super cloud, we wanna dig into it. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you for having >>Us here. So first of all, we'll get into super before we get into the Supercloud. I want to just get the thoughts on the move Sanjay. We've been following your career since 2010. You've been a cube alumni from that point, we followed that your career. Why cohesive? Why now? >>Yeah, John David, thank you first and all for having us here, and it's great to be at your event. You know, when I left VMware last year, I took some time off just really primarily. I hadn't had a sabbatical in probably 18 years. I joined two boards, Phillips and sneak, and then, you know, started just invest and help entrepreneurs. Most of them were, you know, Indian Americans like me who were had great tech, were looking for the kind of go to market connections. And it was just a wonderful year to just de to unwind a bit. And along the, the way came CEO calls. And I'd asked myself, the question is the tech the best in the industry? Could you see value creation that was signi significant and you know, three, four months ago, Mohit and Carl Eschenbach and a few of the board members of cohesive called me and walk me through Mo's decision, which he'll talk about in a second. And we spent the last few months getting to know him, and he's everything you describe. He's not just the father of hyperconverge. And he wrote the Google file system, wicked smart, built a tech platform better than that second time. But we had to really kind of walk through the chemistry between us, which we did in long walks in, in, you know, discrete places so that people wouldn't find us in a Starbucks and start gossiping. So >>Why Sanjay? There you go. >>Actually, I should say it's a combination of two different decisions. The first one was to, for me to take a different role and I run the company as a CEO for, for nine years. And, you know, as a, as a technologist, I always like, you know, going deep into technology at the same time, the CEO duties require a lot of breadth, right? You're talking to customers, you're talking to partners, you're doing so much. And with the way we've been growing the with, you know, we've been fortunate, it was becoming hard to balance both. It's really also not fair to the company. Yeah. So I opted to do the depth job, you know, be the visionary, be the technologist. And that was the first decision to bring a CEO, a great CEO from outside. >>And I saw your video on the site. You said it was your decision. Yes. Go ahead. I have to ask you, cuz this is a real big transition for founders and you know, I have founder artists cuz everyone, you know, calls me that. But being the founder of a company, it's always hard to let go. I mean nine years as CEO, it's not like you had a, you had a great run. So this was it timing for you? Was it, was it a structural shift, like at super cloud, we're talking about a major shift that's happening right now in the industry. Was it a balance issue? Was it more if you wanted to get back in and in the tech >>Look, I, I also wanna answer, you know, why Sanja, but, but I'll address your question first. I always put the company first what's right for the company. Is it for me to start get stuck the co seat and try to juggle this depth and Brad simultaneously. I mean, I can stroke my ego a little bit there, but it's not good for the company. What's best for the company. You know, I'm a technologist. How about I oversee the technology part in partnership with so many great people I have in the company and I bring someone kick ass to be the CEO. And so then that was the second decision. Why Sanja when Sanjay, you know, is a very well known figure. He's managed billions of dollars of business in VMware. You know, been there, done that has, you know, some of the biggest, you know, people in the industry on his speed dial, you know, we were really fortunate to have someone like that, come in and accept the role of the CEO of cohesive. I think we can take the company to new Heights and I'm looking forward to my partnership with, with Sanja on this. >>It it's we, we called it the splash brothers and >>The, >>In the vernacular. It doesn't matter who gets the ball, whether it's step clay, we shoot. And I think if you look at some of the great partnerships, whether it was gates bomber, there, plenty of history of this, where a founder and a someone who was, it has to be complimentary skills. If I was a technologist myself and wanted to code we'd clash. Yeah. But I think this was really a match me in heaven because he, he can, I want him to keep innovating and building the best platform for today in the future. And our customers tell one customer told me, this is the best tech they've seen since VMware, 20 years ago, AWS, 10 years ago. And most recently this was a global 100 big customers. So I feel like this combination, now we have to show that it works. It's, you know, it's been three, four months. My getting to know him, you know, I'm day eight on the job, but I'm loving it. >>Well, it's a sluman model too. It's more modern example. You saw, he did it with Fred Ludy at service now. Yes. And, and of course at, at snowflake, yeah. And his book, you read his book. I dunno if you've read his book, amp it up, but app it up. And he says, I always you'll love this. Give great deference to the founder. Always show great respect. Right. And for good reason. So >>In fact, I mean you could talk to him, you actually met to >>Frank. I actually, you know, a month or so back, I actually had dinner with him in his ranch in Moana. And I posed the question. There was a number of CEOs that went there and I posed him the question. So Frank, you know, many of us, we grow being deaf guys, you know? And eventually when we take on the home of our CEO, we have to do breadth. How do you do it? And he's like, well, let me tell you, I was never a death guy. I'm a breath guy. >>I'm like, >>That's my answer. Yeah. >>So, so I >>Want the short story. So the day I got the job, I, I got a text from Frank and I said, what's your advice the first time CEO, three words, amp it up, >>Amp it up. Right? Yeah. >>And so you're always on brand, man. >>So you're an amazing operator. You've proven that time and time again at SAP, VMware, et cetera, you feel like now you, you, you wanna do both of those skills. You got the board and you got the operations cuz you look, you know, look at sloop when he's got Scarelli wherever he goes, he brings Scarelli with him as sort of the operator. How, how do you, how are you thinking >>About that? I mean it's early days, but yeah. Yeah. Small. I mean I've, you know, when I was, you know, it was 35,000 people at VMware, 80, 90,000 people at SAP, a really good run. The SAP run was 10 to 20 billion innovative products, especially in analytics and VMware six to 12 end user computing cloud. So I learned a lot. I think the company, you know, being about 2000 employees plus not to mayor tomorrow, but over the course next year I can meet everybody. Right? So first off the executive team, 10 of us, we're, we're building more and more cohesiveness if I could use that word between us, which is great, the next, you know, layers of VPs and every manager, I think that's possible. So I I'm a people person and a customer person. So I think when you take that sort of extroverted mindset, we'll bring energy to the workforce to, to retain the best and then recruit the best. >>And you know, even just the week we, we were announced that this announcement happened. Our website traffic went through the roof, the highest it's ever been, lots of resumes coming in. So, and then lots of customer engagement. So I think we'll take this, but I, I feel very good about the possibilities, because see, for me, I didn't wanna walk into the company to a company where the technology risk was high. Okay. I feel like that I can go to bed at night and the technology risk is low. This guy's gonna run a machine at the current and the future. And I'm hearing that from customers. Now, what I gotta do is get the, the amp it up part on the go to market. I know a little thing or too about >>That. You've got that down. I think the partnership is really key here. And again, nine use the CEO and then Sanja points to our super cloud trend that we've been looking at, which is there's another wave happening. There's a structural change in real time happening now, cloud one was done. We saw that transition, AWS cloud native now cloud native with an kind of operating system kind of vibe going on with on-premise hybrid edge. People say multi-cloud, but we're looking at this as an opportunity for companies like cohesive to go to the next level. So I gotta ask you guys, what do you see as structural change right now in the industry? That's disruptive. People are using cloud and scale and data to refactor their business models, change modern cases with cloud native. How are you guys looking at this next structural change that's happening right now? Yeah, >>I'll take that. So, so I'll start by saying that. Number one, data is the new oil and number two data is exploding, right? Every year data just grows like crazy managing data is becoming harder and harder. You mentioned some of those, right? There's so many cloud options available. Cloud one different vendors have different clouds. There is still on-prem there's edge infrastructure. And the number one problem that happens is our data is getting fragmented all over the place and managing so many fragments of data is getting harder and harder even within a cloud or within on-prem or within edge data is fragmented. Right? Number two, I think the hackers out there have realized that, you know, to make money, it's no longer necessary to Rob banks. They can actually see steal the data. So ransomware attacks on the rise it's become a boardroom level discussion. They say there's a ransomware attack happening every 11 seconds or so. Right? So protecting your data has become very important security data. Security has become very important. Compliance is important, right? So people are looking for data management solutions, the next gen data management platform that can really provide all this stuff. And that's what cohesive is about. >>What's the difference between data management and backup. Explain that >>Backup is just an entry point. That's one use case. I wanna draw an analogy. Let's draw an analogy to my former company, Google right? Google started by doing Google search, but is Google really just a search engine. They've built a platform that can do multiple things. You know, they might have started with search, but then they went down to roll out Google maps and Gmail and YouTube and so many other things on that platform. So similarly backups might be just the first use case, but it's really about that platform on which you can do more with the data that's next gen data management. >>But, but you am, I correct. You don't consider yourself a security company. One of your competitors is actually pivoting and in positioning themselves as a security company, I've always felt like data management, backup and recovery data protection is an adjacency to security, but those two worlds are coming together. How do you see >>It? Yeah. The way I see it is that security is part of data management. You start maybe by backing with data, but then you secure it and then you do more with that data. If you're only doing security, then you're just securing the data. You, you gotta do more with the data. So data management is much bigger. So >>It's a security is a subset of data. I mean, there you go. Big TA Sanjay. >>Well, I mean I've, and I, I, I I'd agree. And I actually, we don't get into that debate. You know, I've told the company, listen, we'll figure that out. Cuz who cares about the positioning at the bottom? My email, I say we are data management and data security company. Okay. Now what's the best word that describes three nouns, which I think we're gonna do management security and analytics. Okay. He showed me a beautiful diagram, went to his home in the course of one of these, you know, discrete conversations. And this was, I mean, he's done this before. Many, if you watch on YouTube, he showed me a picture of an ice big iceberg. And he said, listen, you know, if you look at companies like snowflake and data bricks, they're doing the management security and mostly analytics of data. That's the top of the iceberg, the stuff you see. >>But a lot of the stuff that's get backed archive is the bottom of the iceberg that you don't see. And you try to, if you try to ask a question on age data, the it guy will say, get a ticket. I'll come back with three days. I'll UNIV the data rehydrate and then you'll put it into a database. And you can think now imagine that you could do live searches analytics on, on age data that's analytics. So I think the management, the security, the analytics of, you know, if you wanna call it secondary data or backed up data or data, that's not hot and live warm, colder is a huge opportunity. Now, what do you wanna call one phrase that describes all of it. Do you call that superpower management security? Okay, whatever you wanna call it. I view it as saying, listen, let's build a platform. >>Some people call Google, a search company. People, some people call Google and information company and we just have to go and pursue every CIO and every CSO that has a management and a security and do course analytics problem. And that's what we're doing. And when I talk to the, you know, I didn't talk to all the 3000 customers, but the biggest customers and I was doing diligence. They're like this thing has got enormous potential. Okay. And we just have to now go focus, get every fortune 1000 company to pick us because this problem, even the first use case you talk back up is a little bit like, you know, razor blades and soap you've needed. You needed it 30 years ago and you'll need it for 30 years. It's just that the tools that were built in the last generation that were companies formed in 1990s, one of them I worked for years ago are aids are not built for the cloud. So I think this is a tremendous opportunity where many of those, those, those nos management security analytics will become part of what we do. And we'll come up with the right phrase for what the companies and do course >>Sanjay. So ma and Sanja. So given that given that's this Google transition, I like that example search was a data problem. They got sequenced to a broader market opportunity. What super cloud we trying to tease out is what does that change over from a data standpoint, cuz now the operating environments change has become more complex and the enterprises are savvy. Developers are savvy. Now they want, they want SAS solutions. They want freemium and expanding. They're gonna drive the operations agenda with DevOps. So what is the complexity that needs to be abstracted away? How do you see that moment? Because this is what people are talking about. They're saying security's built in, driven by developers. Developers are driving operations behavior. So what is the shift? Where do you guys see this new? Yeah. Expansive for cohesive. How do you fit into super cloud? >>So let me build up from that entry point. Maybe back up to what you're saying is the super cloud, right? Let me draw that journey. So let's say the legacy players are just doing backups. How, how sad is it that you have one silo sitting there just for peace of mind as an insurance policy and you do nothing with the data. If you have to do something with the data, you have to build another silo, you have to build another copy. You have to manage it separately. Right. So clearly that's a little bit brain damaged. Right. So, okay. So now you take a little bit of, you know, newer vendors who may take that backup platform and do a little bit more with that. Maybe they provide security, but your problem still remains. How do you do more with the data? How do you do some analytics? >>Like he's saying, right. How do you test development on that? How do you migrate the data to the cloud? How do you manage it? The data at scale? How do you do you provide a unified experience across, across multiple cloud, which you're calling the super cloud. That's where cohesive goes. So what we do, we provide a platform, right? We have tentacles in on-prem in each of the clouds. And on top of that, it looks like one platform that you manage. We have a single control plane, a UI. If you may, a single pin of glass, if, if you may, that our customers can use to manage all of it. And now it looks, starts looking like one platform. You mentioned Google, do you, when you go to, you know, kind Google search or a URL, do you really care? What happens behind the scenes mean behind the scenes? Google's built a platform that spans the whole world. No, >>But it's interesting. What's behind the scenes. It's a beautiful now. And I would say, listen, one other thing to pull on Dave, on the security part, I saw a lot of vendors this day in this space, white washing a security message on top of backup. Okay. And CSO, see through that, they'll offer warranties and guarantees or whatever, have you of X million dollars with a lot of caveats, which will never paid because it's like escape clause here. We won't pay it. Yeah. And, and what people really want is a scalable solution that works. And you know, we can match every warranty that's easy. And what I heard was this was the most scalable solution at scale. And that's why you have to approach this with a Google type mindset. I love the fact that every time you listen to sun pitch, I would, what, what I like about him, the most common word to use is scale. >>We do things at scale. So I found that him and AUR and some of the early Google people who come into the company had thought about scale. And, and even me it's like day eight. I found even the non-tech pieces of it. The processes that, you know, these guys are built for simple things in some cases were better than some of the things I saw are bigger companies I'd been used to. So we just have to continue, you know, building a scale platform with the enterprise. And then our cloud product is gonna be the simple solution for the masses. And my view of the world is there's 5,000 big companies and 5 million small companies we'll push the 5 million small companies as the cloud. Okay. Amazon's an investor in the company. AWS is a big partner. We'll talk about I'm sure knowing John's interest in that area, but that's a cloud play and that's gonna go to the cloud really fast. You not build you're in the marketplace, you're in the marketplace. I mean, maybe talk about the history of the Amazon relationship investing and all that. >>Yeah, absolutely. So in two years back late 2020, we, you know, in collaboration with AWS who also by the way is an investor now. And in cohesive, we rolled out what we call data management as a service. It's our SaaS service where we run our software in the cloud. And literally all customers have to do is just go there and sign on, right? They don't have to manage any infrastructure and stuff. What's nice is they can then combine that with, you know, software that they might have bought from cohesive. And it still looks like one platform. So what I'm trying to say is that they get a choice of the, of the way they wanna consume our software. They can consume it as a SAS service in the cloud. They can buy our software, manage it themselves, offload it to a partner on premises or what have you. But it still looks like that one platform, what you're calling a Supercloud >>Yeah. And developers are saying, they want the bag of Legos to compose their solutions. That's the Nirvana they want to get there. So that's, it has to look the same. >>Well, what is it? What we're calling a Superlo can we, can we test that for a second? So data management and service could span AWS and on-prem with the identical experience. So I guess I would call that a Supercloud I presume it's not gonna through AWS span multiple clouds, but, but >>Why not? >>Well, well interesting cuz we had this, I mean, so, okay. So we could in the future, it doesn't today. Well, >>David enough kind of pause for a second. Everything that we do there, if we do it will be customer driven. So there might be some customers I'll give you one Walmart that may want to store the data in a non AWS cloud risk cuz they're competitors. Right. So, but the control plane could still be in, in, in the way we built it, but the data might be stored somewhere else. >>What about, what about a on-prem customer? Who says, Hey, I, I like cohesive. I've now got multiple clouds. I want the identical experience across clouds. Yeah. Okay. So, so can you do that today? How do you do that today? Can we talk >>About that? Yeah. So basically think roughly about the split between the data plane and the control plane, the data plane is, you know, our cohesive clusters that could be sitting on premises that could be sitting in multiple data centers or you can run an instance of that cluster in the cloud, whichever cloud you choose. Right. That's what he was referring to as the data plane. So collectively all these clusters from the data plane, right? They stored the data, but it can all be managed using the control plane. So you still get that single image, the single experience across all clouds. And by the way, the, the, the, the cloud vendor does actually benefit because here's a customer. He mentioned a customer that may not wanna go to AWS, but when they get the data plane on a different cloud, whether it's Azure, whether it's the Google cloud, they then get data management services. Maybe they're able to replicate the data over to AWS. So AWS also gains. >>And your deployment model is you instantiate the cohesive stack on each of the regions and clouds, is that correct? And you building essentially, >>It all happens behind the scenes. That's right. You know, just like Google probably has their tentacles all over the world. We will instantiate and then make it all look like one platform. >>I mean, you should really think it's like a human body, right? The control planes, the head. Okay. And that controls everything. The data plane is large because it's a lot of the data, right? It's the rest of the body, that data plane could be wherever you want it to be. Traditionally, the part the old days was tape. Then you got disk. Now you got multiple clouds. So that's the way we think about it. And there on that piece of it will be neutral, right? We should be multi-cloud to the data plane being every single place. Cause it's customer demand. Where do you want your store data? Air gapped. On-prem no problem. We'll work with Dell. Okay. You wanna be in a particular cloud, AWS we'll work then optimized with S3 and glacier. So this is where I think the, the path to a multi-cloud or Supercloud is to be customer driven, but the control plane sits in Amazon. So >>We're blessed to have a number of, you know, technical geniuses in here. So earlier we were speaking to Ben wa deja VI, and what they do is different. They don't instantiate an individual, you know, regions. What they do is of a single global. Is there a, is there an advantage of doing it the way the cohesive does it in terms of simplicity or how do you see that? Is that a future direction for you from a technology standpoint? What are the trade offs there? >>So you want to be where the data is when you said single global, I take it that they run somewhere and the data has to go there. And in this day age, correct >>Said that. He said, you gotta move that in this >>Day and >>Age query that's, you know, across regions, look >>In this day and age with the way the data is growing, the way it is, it's hard to move around the data. It's much easier to move around the competition. And in these instances, what have you, so let the data be where it is and you manage it right there. >>So that's the advantage of instantiating in multiple regions. As you don't have to move the >>Data cost, we have the philosophy we call it. Let's bring the, the computation to the data rather than the data to >>The competition and the same security model, same governance model, same. How do you, how do you federate that? >>So it's all based on policies. You know, this overarching platform controlled by, by the control plane, you just, our customers just put in the policies and then the underlying nuts and bolts just take care >>Of, you know, it's when I first heard and start, I started watching some of his old videos, ACE really like hyperconverged brought to secondary storage. In fact, he said, oh yeah, that's great. You got it. Because I first called this idea, hyperconverged secondary storage, because the idea of him inventing hyperconverge was bringing compute to storage. It had never been done. I mean, you had the kind of big VC stuff, but these guys were the first to bring that hyperconverge at, at Nutanix. So I think this is that same idea of bringing computer storage, but now applied not to the warm data, but to the rest of the data, including a >>Lot of, what about developers? What's, what's your relationship with developers? >>Maybe you talk about the marketplace and everything >>He's yeah. And I'm, I'm curious as to do you have a PAs layer, what we call super PAs layer to create an identical developer experience across your Supercloud. I'm gonna my >>Term. So we want our customers not just to benefit from the software that we write. We also want them to benefit from, you know, software that's written by developers by third party people and so on and so forth. So we also support a marketplace on the platform where you can download apps from third party developers and run them on this platform. There's a, a number of successful apps. There's one, you know, look like I said, our entry point might be backups, but even when backups, we don't do everything. Look, for instance, we don't backup mainframes. There is a, a company we partner with, you know, and their software can run in our marketplace. And it's actually used by many, many of our financial customers. So our customers don't get, just get the benefit of what we build, but they also get the benefit of what third parties build. Another analogy I like to draw. You can tell. And front of analogy is I drew an analogy to hyperscale is like Google. Yeah. The second analogy I like to draw is that to a simple smartphone, right? A smartphone starts off by being a great phone. But beyond that, it's also a GPS player. It's a, it's a, it's a music player. It's a camera, it's a flashlight. And it also has a marketplace from where you can download apps and extend the power of that platform. >>Is that a, can we think of that as a PAs layer or no? Is it really not? You can, okay. You can say, is it purpose built for what you're the problem that you're trying to solve? >>So we, we just built APIs. Yeah. Right. We have an SDK that developers can use. And through those APIs, they get to leverage the underlying services that exist on the platform. And now developers can use that to take advantage of all that stuff. >>And it was, that was a key factor for me too. Cause I, what I, you know, I've studied all the six, seven players that sort of so-called leaders. Nobody had a developer ecosystem, nobody. Right? The old folks were built for the hardware era, but anyones were built for the cloud to it didn't have any partners were building on their platform. So I felt for me listen, and that the example of, you know, model nine rights, the name of the company that does back up. So there's, there's companies that are built on and there's a number of others. So our goal is to have a big tent, David, to everybody in the ecosystem to partner with us, to build on this platform. And, and that may take over time, but that's the way we're build >>It. And you have a metadata layer too, that has the intelligence >>To correct. It's all abstract. That that's right. So it's a combination of data and metadata. We have lots of metadata that keeps track of where the data is. You know, it allows you to index the data you can do quick searches. You can actually, you, we talking about the control plan from that >>Tracing, >>You can inject a search that'll through search throughout your multi-cloud environment, right? The super cloud that you call it. We have all that, all that goodness sounds >>Like a Supercloud John. >>Yeah. I mean, data tracing involved can trace the data lineage. >>You, you can trace the data lineage. So we, you know, provide, you know, compliance and stuff. So you can, >>All right. So my final question to wrap up, we guys, first of all, thanks for coming on. I know you're super busy, San Jose. We, we know what you're gonna do. You're gonna amp it up and, you know, knock all your numbers out. Think you always do. But what I'm interested in, what you're gonna jump into, cuz now you're gonna have the creative license to jump in to the product, the platform there has to be the next level in your mind. Can you share your thoughts on where this goes next? Love the control plane, separate out from the data plane. I think that plays well for super. How >>Much time do you have John? This guy's got, he's got a wealth. Ditis keep >>Going. Mark. Give us the most important thing you're gonna focus on. That kind of brings the super cloud and vision together. >>Yeah. Right away. I'm gonna, perhaps I, I can ion into two things. The first one is I like to call it building the, the machine, the system, right. Just to draw an analogy. Look, I draw an analogy to the us traffic system. People from all walks of life, rich, poor Democrats, Republicans, you know, different states. They all work in the, the traffic system and we drive well, right. It's a system that just works. Whereas in some other countries, you know, the system doesn't work. >>We know, >>We know a few of those. >>It's not about works. It's not about the people. It's the same people who would go from here to those countries and, and not dry. Well, so it's all about the system. So the first thing I, I have my sights on is to really strengthen the system that we have in our research development to make it a machine. I mean, it functions quite well even today, but wanna take it to the next level. Right. So that I wanna get to a point where innovation just happens in the grassroots. And it just, just like >>We automations scale optic brings all, >>Just happens without anyone overseeing it. Anyone there's no single point of bottleneck. I don't have to go take any diving catches or have you, there are people just working, you know, in a decentralized fashion and innovation just happens. Yeah. The second thing I work on of course is, you know, my heart and soul is in, you know, driving the vision, you know, the next level. And that of course is part of it. So those are the two things >>We heard from all day in our super cloud event that there's a need for an, an operating system. Yeah. Whether that's defacto standard or open. Correct. Do you see a consortium around the corner potentially to bring people together so that things could work together? Cuz there really isn't no stand there. Isn't a standards bodies. Now we have great hyperscale growth. We have on-prem we got the super cloud thing happening >>And it's a, it's kind of like what is an operating system? Operating system exposes some APIs that the applications can then use. And if you think about what we've been trying to do with the marketplace, right, we've built a huge platform and that platform is exposed through APIs. That third party developers can use. Right? And even we, when we, you know, built more and more services on top, you know, we rolled our D as we rolled out, backup as a service and a ready for thing security as a service governance, as a service, they're using those APIs. So we are building a distributor, putting systems of sorts. >>Well, congratulations on a great journey. Sanja. Congratulations on taking the hem. Thank you've got ball control. Now you're gonna be calling the ball cohesive as they say, it's, >>It's a team. It's, you know, I think I like that African phrase. If you want to go fast, you go alone. If you wanna go far, you go together. So I've always operated with the best deal. I'm so fortunate. This is to me like a dream come true because I always thought I wanted to work with a technologist that frees me up to do what I like. I mean, I started as an engineer, but that's not what I am today. Right? Yeah. So I do understand the product and this category I think is right for disruption. So I feel excited, you know, it's changing growing. Yeah. No. And it's a, it requires innovation with a cloud scale mindset and you guys have been great friends through the years. >>We'll be, we'll be watching you. >>I think it's not only disruption. It's creation. Yeah. There's a lot of white space that just hasn't been created yet. >>You're gonna have to, and you know, the proof, isn't the pudding. Yeah. You already have five of the biggest 10 financial institutions in the us and our customers. 25% of the fortune 500 users, us two of the biggest five pharmaceutical companies in the world use us. Probably, you know, some of the biggest companies, you know, the cars you have, you know, out there probably are customers. So it's already happening. >>I know you got an IPO filed confidentially. I know you can't talk numbers, but I can tell by your confidence, you're feeling good right now we are >>Feeling >>Good. Yeah. One day, one week, one month at a time. I mean, you just, you know, I like the, you know, Jeff Bezos, Andy jazzy expression, which is, it's always day one, you know, just because you've had success, even, you know, if, if a and when an IPO O makes sense, you just have to stay humble and hungry because you realize, okay, we've had a lot of success in the fortune 1000, but there's a lot of white space that hasn't picked USS yet. So let's go, yeah, there's lots of midmarket account >>Product opportunities are still, >>You know, I just stay humble and hungry and if you've got the team and then, you know, I'm really gonna be working also in the ecosystem. I think there's a lot of very good partners. So lots of ideas brew through >>The head. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on our super cloud event and, and, and also doubling up on the news of the new appointment and congratulations on the success guys. Coverage super cloud 22, I'm sure. Dave ante, thanks for watching. Stay tuned for more segments after this break.

>>Que presents HP Discover 2022. Brought to You by HP >>Good morning, everyone. It's the Cube live in Las Vegas. Day two of our coverage of HP Discover 2022 from the Venetian Expo Centre. Lisa Martin and David want a what a day we had yesterday and today. Unbelievable >>for today. Big Big day today, >>Big day Today we've got a lot. We got some big heavy hitters on talking with HP customers. Partners, leadership. We've a couple of guests up with us next. Going to be talking more about the ecosystem. He's welcome. Corey Dire, the chief revenue officer, Digital Realty and Cliff Evans, senior director. H P E Green like partner ecosystem Guys. Great to have you on the >>programme. Thank you. Great to be here. >>Thank you for having us excited to be here >>with. So that's so that's harness that excitement. Cory, talk to us about the partnership. The announcement? What's going on there with Digital Realty and Green like? >>Yeah, we're crazy excited about it. You know, we've got customers dealing with data, gravity and the opportunity around that and how they could make use of it. And then they're thinking through digital transformation. How how you doing? Multi cloud and they need a partnership. To do that in this partnership with Green Leg and digital is perfect solution for them. So I'm crazy excited to be here with Cliff absolute with all of you to talk about it and hopefully build out a great partnership in relationship with HP. >>Talk to us. Sure, you're crazy Excitement >>club? Absolutely no. I think it is absolutely fantastic Partnership. I think the term is coming together as organisations. Bringing the two platforms together isn't it is an amazing thing that we have for customers, customers we know they want. They want a cloud experience. But really, they want to do that without really the DC footprint that had previously. So how did they do that in a way that really works for them in a secure client secure, sustainable way. But with the cloud experience. Really, the combination of the two pieces coming together really makes that happen, and that is what that's exciting. So we >>dig in to the two things that you mentioned Cory digital transformation and multiply. When I go back to the early days of cloud, it was that girl, you know, nobody's going to do anything you know ever again in the data centre. You know Charles Phillips, the the CEO of in four, famously said, Friends don't let friends, Bill Data centres, right? Everything's going in the cloud. So a lot of people predicted, You know, guys like you were going to be in trouble. The exact opposite happened. The market took off. So you mentioned digital transformation of multi cloud. Can we peel the onion on that? What? What is it about those two items? Are there other trends? They're driving your business, >>you know, You tied right on to to where it started. All enterprises started going to the club and then they got to the cloud and there was more that they needed to make that rial. I talk about multi cloud. You're going to use different cloud providers for different opportunities and different applications. And so you have to start thinking about how does this work in a world where you're gonna go to multiple clouds, multiple locations and what it really drove? It is the need for Cole location to make this because you've got a distributed architecture in order to enable all of this and then having to have us help you out with it. And partners like HP. That's part of where it comes from. But if you think through going to the cloud, can you stay there? Is that the full solution? You need to secure sustainable solution for that. One of the opportunities for us around that is that if you're building data centres for yourself on Prem, you don't have all the cloud access we do. We've got more cloud access points than anybody. So that helps in this digital transformation. >>How How much home? I'm sorry, Didn't mean to you how much homogeneity is there are our clients or customers saying, Hey, I kind of want the same experience in the same infrastructure. Same same. Or they saying, Hey, I want to do stuff in Digital Realty that I can't get from, you know, a cloud provider, Oracle Rack. You know, something like that, >>I would tell you that they come to us from all the partners. So we are partner community. We are not going up the stack anywhere on that. We do are we do our part. We're really good at doing the data centres really good at building data. They descended sustainable. Our position in the market is sustainability around it. We were the first to sign up on the science based initiatives for zero kind of carbon neutrality and in the future in 2030. And so yeah, so I think there's the partner aspect that they need help with on it to drive that Yeah. >>And I think from that from the HP Green Lake perspective, I think customers they very much want that that cloud experience. But I want to do on their own terms. The partnership allows that to happen on Gapen simply the cloud experiencing with the green light cloud platform to really go and deliver that genuine cloud experience and then building cloud services. On top of that, they get all the benefits that they would have from a public cloud experience, but done in the way that they would prefer to do it. So it's bringing those pieces together on >>I think the other side of you asked if it was it was the same across the board and ubiquitous. It's very bespoke. Solutions weaken D'oh! Every customer we have has a different footprint. Most from the multinationals. So we think through where their data is, where it needs to be accessed where their customers are, where their employees are, what makes the most sense. And then the partnership we have with HP into a whole lot for making very bespoke solution for that customer and help them be successful. Journey >>s O on. That s o. So what we've done with destroy lt is we have a specific offer around how we go to market with this really going how customers So we call it Green Light with co location. It's all about really positioning on offer to customers that says, Look, we can go and do this with you and do it simply and really make it happen very quickly and efficiently. So the customer ends up with a single contract in a single invoice for Green Lake Cloud Services on the co location piece, all in one single contracts. That just makes it a lot easier in terms of organising on a really big part of that as well is that our involvement is also spans right from the design to the implementation to support. So we do the whole thing to really help organisations golf and do this. So that's the big for me. The big differentiator. So rather than just having Green Lake in Cloud Services, were saying, Look, we can now do the Coehlo piece and they can really take the whole thing to a whole new level in terms of that public cloud experience >>in the sari and that that that invoice comes from HPD or Digital Realty is bundled into that >>correct? Yes, directly through the channel. We can sell that in a number of different ways. Customers get that that single invoice on a big part of that as well, just going a little bit deeper on that. So what we do is we We use a part of the company called Data Centre Technology Services, which are a great kind of consulting organisation with tremendous experience and something like 3000 projects across 40 countries from the very smallest of the very largest of data centre implementation. So all of that really makes the whole thing a lot easier from a customer's perspective in terms of designing, implementing and then supporting. So you pull all of that together. It's fantastic >>and I think it's really changed to add on to that partner in prison. So customers, now we're thinking about it differently and data centres differently, and they see us as a strategic partner along with HP. To go after this used to be space, power and calling. Now it's How much connectivity do you have? What your sustainability profile? What's your security profile? How do you secure this data? Date is the lifeblood of all these companies and you have to have a really secure, sustainable solution for them, >>right? That's absolutely critical for every industry. Talk about the specific value prop at a bespoke co location solution delivers to customers. Maybe you got a favourite customer example that you think really articulates the value of this partnership. >>So I think a combination. So so I think we touched on a lot of it, actually. So there's obviously the data centre aspect itself in terms of with the footprint that realty have across the world, you can pick and choose the data centre in the class of data centre that you want in terms of your Leighton see and connectivity that you want. Then really, it's the green make peace in terms of the flexibility that you get with that really is that value. And as I touched on the Green Lake with Cole Oh, I think for me is from our perspective, I think the biggest piece of value that we provide there to really go make it happen. Yeah, >>there's about 70 applications right now that are part of Green Lake Polo that you can bespoke for what you need to. You can think around your specific solutions that you need, and we've got it all right there with HP Green like and follow for us. And because we have a 290 data centre footprint across 50 markets, it gives us the opportunity really be the data centre provider in the Partner for H P, pretty much anywhere but with connective ity everywhere. >>When you say 70 applications, these the 70 services are you talking about talking >>about? Okay, Category 70 services. There's a lot of stuff. >>Cory, when you talked about sustainability a couple of times, is a really important ingredient of the customer decision. Why is it because they're indirectly paying the power bill or is because that's the right thing to do? And they care. There's increased. People care about it more because you go back a while ago. People way always talked about green it, but it was all lip service. Is that changing or is that there? Is there an economics >>changing in a really big way? Almost every conversation I have with customers is how are you doing Sustainability. So if they're doing an on Prem, that's not their core capabilities. They don't know how to do that. On our end, I mentioned our SP R science based initiatives that we signed up for. But how do we enable that? Enable it for how do we build in designer data centres? How do we actually work them and operate them? And then how do we go after all the green sources of sustainable energy including, I think since 2015, we've issued six billion in green bonds around that same support of it. So yeah, >>and your customer can then I presume, report that on their sustainability report a >>good way to think about it. You no longer have your data centre at its sometimes less efficient way than way are we're really good at building sustainable data centres, and then you can actually get some credits back and forth, >>just from agreement. Perspective. So Green Lake. So there's a specific Forrester Impact report that looks a green lake on how it how it performs from sustainability. Perspective on Greenlee really is giving you their 30% reduction in your energy consumption. So there's a big kind of win there as well, I think. Which is then, >>why? Where does that come from? >>So it Zim part that kind of the avoidance of over provisioning such that you going right size things, Then you have you have you have a certain amount of reserve capacity that you're using them just using the extra consumption piece when you need it. So rather than having everything running at full speed, it really is kind of struggling as to how that work. So you get a combination of effects >>with consulting and the thoughtfulness around this bespoke solution that you have. You end up needing fewer servers, pure technology that drives less power consumption and therefore you get a lot of this same really base it down. You >>talked about the savings you talked about the simplification delivery perspective. Talk about the implementation. What's the time to value that Organisations can glean from this partnership >>superfast So So yeah this This does accelerate the whole process from from initial kind of opportunity if you like and customer inquiry through to actual implementation So previously this would take considerable amount of time in terms of to ing and froing between multiple organisations on Now what we do is coordinate that do it efficiently and effectively So D. C. T s Data Sentinel services team very closely. Just have those connections often do those things incredibly quickly and it does accelerate the whole time >>and they're tied in with our team is well around. Where's the leighton? See where the solutions Because we're really thinking about what is your stack looked like from an HP perspective, but then where you need to deploy it so that you have access to the clouds You have the right proper Leighton see across your environment and you really haven't distributed architecture that works the best for you and your company. >>So this is probably answer those questions Probably both, but I'm asking anyway, I've always been a repatriation sceptic, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. You guys have other data. And maybe this is part of what one of my blind spots question is, is what's driving your business in terms of the EU's case? Is it organisations saying Hey, we want to get out of the data centre business way Don't want to put everything into the cloud but we're going to go on a digital realty and being green leg and we're gonna move into that cola Or is it? People say, You know, while we over rotated into the cloud, you were going to come back. So it's >>both. It's both, >>Yeah, in the empire. The credit. >>I think there are a lot of customers with good intentions on going to the cloud, and then there's some cost with it that maybe they didn't fully factor in it at that time. And now you've got the ability around these bespoke solutions to really right size every bit of this. And when they originally did it, they didn't think through a distributor architecture. They thought my own prim, and then I'm just gonna burst everything that a cloud that's no longer the case, and it's not really the most efficient way to your point about repatriation. They start pulling their storage back in. Well, where do you want your data? Where do you want your storage? You wanted as close as you can to the clouds for that capability and in a solution that's wrapped around it makes it very simple for you. >>I think the repatriation is very real and is increasing, eh? So we're seeing a lot of it in terms of activity and customers really trying to understand the cost that they're incurring now from a public cloud perspective. And how can they do that differently? In fact, with combined offer that we have it, it makes it a lot easier to compare. So, yeah, that really is accelerating because you don't >>see it in the macro numbers. I mean, just to be honest, you see the cloud guys combined growing 35%. And is that because your business is in transition from traditional on prime model, too, and as a service model, and so you've got that imbalance and it gets hidden in >>all that, and I think it's I think it's a new wave of things that are happening. Yeah. I mean, there's a there's a lot of things, obviously, that makes complete sense to me in Public Cloud, but I do think there's been an over rotation towards it, so I think now that realisation and it's going to take time to kind of pick that. But it's absolutely happening. There are a lot of opportunities that we've gotten some very big ones I'd love to talk about. Can't quite talk about them just get but really, where there's big, big savings in terms of what they're paying from a public cloud perspective, Really, what they want is that full management cloud service to go make it happen. So the combination of the data centre piece to Green Lake piece and then some management services, whether they're from ourselves or from party community, from manage service providers that we also work with, that gives them the complete package. >>So I have another premise. A lot of it, of course, is traditionally been focused on internal, and I feel like there's a new era coming. It's talks of the ecosystem. Are you seeing customers not only running there it in digital realty and connecting to the cloud in a hybrid fashion, but also actually building new value and building businesses that are customer facing on that that air monetize herbal. Are you seeing that? Is that happening and having examples, even generic? >>Well, basic from our perspective, our partner community, that's what they do. We have a tonne of enterprise customers, but I'll need to connect and integrate the data that you have doesn't do anything for you, Fitz on its own. And it's not interacting with other data points. And it's not around interacting with other customers, other solutions in one night. So it does help build out a partner community, a solution community for our customers in our data centres and across the >>are their industry patterns emerging. In other words, is that data ecosystems emerging by industry or is a sort of or horizontal? >>There's a mix. So I think there's a lot of lot of financial sector stuff. Yes, certainly. And then certainly manufacturing s O. I think it's interesting that you're getting a bit of a combination, but not a lot of financial sector. >>Of course, the big bags early on that they could build their own cloud. Yeah, now they're probably rethinking that. Yeah, well, maybe >>they're also service providers. When you're that large a za bank on their end. They're doing a lot of work. E. I would also say the other part that a lot of people see as an opportunity is around all the HPC and AI applications as well, in addition to manufacturing distribution. So there's a lot of use cases, a lot of reasons, like us from sort of doing this >>wrap us up with value, perhaps that you're talking Torto Financial Services Organisation or a manufacturing company. What is that 32nd elevator pitch value problem? Why they should go HP Making Digital Realty together. >>So I would say green, like Rico location gives you a single contract. Singling voice, easy to go and design, implement support and go make happen. Sorry, that's very simple way say, very just make it easy >>on. And I would just say thank you on that. It's been great to speak with you guys. And yeah, when you think through that part of it also is a bespoke opportunity to put your data where it needs to be closer to your customers. Closer to the action you were thinking through the rape reiteration of it. A lot of it's being built out there on phones and whatnot. So you've got to think through where your data is and how you managed to >>write and enable every every company in every industry to be a data company. Because that's what, of course, the demanding consumers demanding that demand isn't it is not going to turn down right now. Absolutely. Just thanks so much for David. Very much. Thank you. Together in the ecosystem, there are guests. And Dave l want a I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the key of live from the Venetian Expo Centre in Vegas, Baby. David, I will be back there next guest in a minute.

>>The cube presents HPE discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. >>Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's day one coverage of HPE discover 22 live from the Venetian in Las Vegas. I got a power panel here, Lisa Martin, with Dave Valante, John furrier, Holger Mueller also joins us. We are gonna wrap this, like you've never seen a rap before guys. Lot of momentum today, lot, lot of excitement, about 8,000 or so customers, partners, HPE leaders here. Holger. Let's go ahead and start with you. What are some of the things that you heard felt saw observed today on day one? >>Yeah, it's great to be back in person. Right? 8,000 people events are rare. Uh, I'm not sure. Have you been to more than 8,000? <laugh> yeah, yeah. Okay. This year, this year. I mean, historically, yes, but, um, >>Snowflake was 10. Yeah. >>So, oh, wow. Okay. So 8,000 was my, >>Cisco was, they said 15, >>But is my, my 8,000, my record, I let us down with 7,000 kind of like, but it's in the Florida swarm. It's not nicely. Like, and there's >>Usually what SFI, there's usually >>20, 20, 30, 40, 50. I remember 50 in the nineties. Right. That was a different time. But yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting what people do and it depends how much time there is to come. Right. And know that it happens. Right. But yeah, no, I think it's interesting. We, we had a good two analyst track today. Um, interesting. Like HPE is kind of like back not being your grandfather's HPE to a certain point. One of the key stats. I know Dave always for the stats, right. Is what I found really interesting that over two third of GreenLake revenue is software and services. Now a love to know how much of that services, how much of that software. But I mean, I, I, I, provocate some, one to ones, the HP executives saying, Hey, you're a hardware company. Right. And they didn't even come back. Right. But Antonio said, no, two thirds is, uh, software and services. Right. That's interesting. They passed the one exabyte, uh, being managed, uh, as a, as a hallmark. Right. I was surprised only 120,000 users if I had to remember the number. Right, right. So that doesn't seem a terrible high amount of number of users. Right. So, but that's, that's, that's promising. >>So what software is in there, cuz it's gotta be mostly services. >>Right? Well it's the 70 plus cloud services, right. That everybody's talking about where the added eight of them shockingly back up and recovery, I thought that was done at launch. Right. >>Still who >>Keep recycling storage and you back. But now it's real. Yeah. >>But the company who knows the enterprise, right. HPE, what I've been doing before with no backup and recovery GreenLake. So that was kind of like, okay, we really want to do this now and nearly, and then say like, oh, by the way, we've been doing this all the time. Yeah. >>Oh, what's your take on the installed base of HP. We had that conversation, the, uh, kickoff or on who's their target, what's the target audience environment look like. It certainly is changing. Right? If it's software and services, GreenLake is resonating. Yeah. Um, ecosystems responding. What's their customers cuz managed services are up too Kubernetes, all the managed services what's what's it like what's their it transformation base look like >>Much of it is of course install base, right? The trusted 20, 30 plus year old HP customer. Who's keeping doing stuff of HP. Right. And call it GreenLake. They've been for so many name changes. It doesn't really matter. And it's kind of like nice that you get the consume pain only what you consume. Right. I get the cloud broad to me then the general markets, of course, people who still need to run stuff on premises. Right. And there's three reasons of doing this performance, right. Because we know the speed of light is relative. If you're in the Southern hemisphere and even your email servers in Northern hemisphere, it takes a moment for your email to arrive. It's a very different user experience. Um, local legislation for data, residency privacy. And then, I mean Charles Phillips who we all know, right. Former president of uh, info nicely always said, Hey, if the CIOs over 50, I don't have to sell qu. Right. So there is not invented. I'm not gonna do cloud here. And now I've kind of like clouded with something like HP GreenLake. That's the customers. And then of course procurement is a big friend, right? Yeah. Because when you do hardware refresh, right. You have to have two or three competitors who are the two or three competitors left. Right. There's Dell. Yeah. And then maybe Lenovo. Right? So, so like a >>Little bit channels, the strength, the procurement physicians of strength, of course install base question. Do you think they have a Microsoft opportunity where, what 365 was Microsoft had office before 365, but they brought in the cloud and then everything changed. Does HP have that same opportunity with kind of the GreenLake, you know, model with their existing stuff. >>It has a GreenLake opportunity, but there's not much software left. It's a very different situation like Microsoft. Right? So, uh, which green, which HP could bring along to say, now run it with us better in the cloud because they've been selling much of it. Most of it, of their software portfolio, which they bought as an HP in the past. Right. So I don't see that happening so much, but GreenLake as a platform itself course interesting because enterprise need a modern container based platform. >>I want, I want to double click on this a little bit because the way I see it is HP is going to its installed base. I think you guys are right on say, this is how we're doing business now. Yeah. You know, come on along. But my sense is, some customers don't want to do the consumption model. There are actually some customers that say, Hey, of course I got, I don't have a cash port problem. I wanna pay for it up front and leave me alone. >>I've been doing this since 50 years. Nice. As I changed it, now <laugh> two know >>Money's wants to do it. And I don't wanna rent because rental's more expensive and blah, blah, blah. So do you see that in the customer base that, that some are pushing back? >>Of course, look, I have a German accent, right? So I go there regularly and uh, the Germans are like worried about doing anything in the cloud. And if you go to a board in Germany and say, Hey, we can pay our usual hardware, refresh, CapEx as usual, or should we bug consumption? And they might know what we are running. <laugh> so not whole, no offense against the Germans out. The German parts are there, but many of them will say, Hey, so this is change with COVID. Right. Which is super interesting. Right? So the, the traditional boards non-technical have been hearing about this cloud variable cost OPEX to CapEx and all of a sudden there's so much CapEx, right. Office buildings, which are not being used truck fleets. So there's a whole new sensitivity by traditional non-technical boards towards CapEx, which now the light bulb went on and say, oh, that's the cloud thing about also. So we have to find a way to get our cost structure, to ramp up and ramp down as our business might be ramping up through COVID through now inflation fears, recession, fears, and so on. >>So, okay. HP's, HP's made the statement that anything you can do in the cloud you can do in GreenLake. Yes. And I've said you can't run on snowflake. You can't run Mongo Atlas, you can't run data bricks, but that's okay. That's fine. Let's be, I think they're talking about, there's >>A short list of things. I think they're talking about the, their >>Stuff, their, >>The operating experience. So we've got single sign on through a URL, right. Uh, you've got, you know, some level of consistency in terms of policy. It's unclear exactly what that is. You've got storage backup. Dr. What, some other services, seven other services. If you had to sort of take your best guess as to where HP is now and peg it toward where Amazon was in which year? >>20 14, 20 14. >>Yeah. Where they had their first conference or the second we invent here with 3000 people and they were thinking, Hey, we're big. Yeah. >>Yeah. And I think GreenLake is the building blocks. So they quite that's the >>Building. Right? I mean similar. >>Okay. Well, I mean they had E C, Q and S3 and SQS, right. That was the core. And then the rest of those services were, I mean, base stock was one of that first came in behind and >>In fairness, the industry has advanced since then, Kubernetes is further along. And so HPE can take advantage of that. But in terms of just the basic platform, I, I would agree. I think it's >>Well, I mean, I think, I mean the software, question's a big one. I wanna bring up because the question is, is that software is getting the world. Hardware is really software scales, everything, data, the edge story. I love their story. I think HP story is wonderful Aruba, you know, hybrid cloud, good story, edge edge. But if you look under the covers, it's weak, right? It's like, it's not software. They don't have enough software juice, but the ecosystem opportunity to me is where you plug and play. So HP knows that game. But if you look historically over the past 25 years, HP now HPE, they understand plug and play interoperability. So the question is, can they thread the needle >>Right. >>Between filling the gaps on the software? Yeah. With partners, >>Can they get the partners? Right. And which have been long, long time. Right. For a long time, HP has been the number one platform under ICP, right? Same thing. You get certified for running this. Right. I know from my own history, uh, I joined Oracle last century and the big thing was, let's get your eBusiness suite certified on HP. Right? Like as if somebody would buy H Oracle work for them, right. This 20 years ago, server >>The original exit data was HP. Oracle. >>Exactly. Exactly. So there's this thinking that's there. But I think the key thing is we know that all modern forget about the hardware form in the platforms, right? All modern software has to move to containers and snowflake runs in containers. You mentioned that, right? Yeah. If customers force snowflake and HPE to the table, right, there will be a way to make it work. Right. And which will help HPE to be the partner open part will bring the software. >>I, I think it's, I think that's an opportunity because that changes the game and agility and speed. If HP plays their differentiation, right. Which we asked on their opening segment, what's their differentiation. They got size scale channel, >>What to the enterprise. And then the big benefit is this workload portability thing. Right? You understand what is run in the public cloud? I need to run it local. For whatever reason, performance, local residency of data. I can move that. There that's the big benefit to the ISVs, the sales vendors as well. >>But they have to have a stronger data platform story in my that's right. Opinion. I mean, you can run Oracle and HPE, but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do a deal with, with snowflake. I mean, we saw it with Dell. Yep. We saw it with, with, with pure and I, if our HPE I'd be saying, Hey, because the way the snowflake deal worked, you probably know this is your reading data into the cloud. The compute actually occurs in the cloud viral HB going snowflake saying we can separate compute and storage. Right. And we have GreenLake. We have on demand. Why don't we run the compute on-prem and make it a full class, first class citizen, right. For all of our customers data. And that would be really innovative. And I think Mongo would be another, they've got OnPrem. >>And the question is, how many, how many snowflake customers are telling snowflake? Can I run you on premise? And how much defo open years will they hear from that? Right? This is >>Why would they deal Dell? That >>Deal though, with that, they did a deal. >>I think they did that deal because the customer came to them and said, you don't exactly that deal. We're gonna spend the >>Snowflake >>Customers think crazy things happen, right? Even, even put an Oracle database in a Microsoft Azure data center, right. Would off who, what as >>Possible snowflake, >>Oracle. So on, Aw, the >>Snow, the snowflakes in the world have to make a decision. Dave on, is it all snowflake all the time? Because what the reality is, and I think, again, this comes back down to the, the track that HP could go up or down is gonna be about software. Open source is now the software industry. There's no such thing as proprietary software, in my opinion, relatively speaking, cloud scale and integrated, integrated integration software is proprietary. The workflows are proprietary. So if they can get that right with the partners, I would focus on that. I think they can tap open source, look at Amazon with open source. They sucked it up and they integrated it in. No, no. So integration is the deal, not >>Software first, but Snowflake's made the call. You were there, Lisa. They basically saying it's we have, you have to be in snowflake in order to get the governance and the scalability, all that other wonderful stuff. Oh, but we we'll do Apache iceberg. We'll we'll open it up. We'll do Python. Yeah. >>But you can't do it data clean room unless you are in snowflake. Exactly. Snowflake on snowflake. >>Exactly. >>But got it. Isn't that? What you heard from AWS all the time till they came out outposts, right? I mean, snowflake is a market leader for what they're doing. Right. So that they want to change their platform. I mean, kudos to them. They don't need to change the platform. They will be the last to change their platform to a ne to anything on premises. Right. But I think the trend already shows that it's going that way. >>Well, if you look at outpost is an signal, Dave, the success of outpost launched what four years ago, they announced it. >>What >>EKS is beating, what outpost is doing. Outpost is there. There's not a lot of buzz and talk to the insiders and the open source community, uh, EKS and containers. To your point mm-hmm <affirmative> is moving faster on, I won't say commodity hardware, but like could be white box or HP, Dell, whatever it's gonna be that scale differentiation and the edge story is, is a good one. And I think with what we're seeing in the market now it's the industrial edge. The back office was gen one cloud back office data center. Now it's hybrid. The focus will be industrial edge machine learning and AI, and they have it here. And there's some, some early conversations with, uh, I heard it from, uh, this morning, you guys interviewed, uh, uh, John Schultz, right? With the world economic 4k birth Butterfield. She was amazing. And then you had Justin bring up a Hoar, bring up quantum. Yes. That is a differentiator. >>HP. >>Yes. Yeah. You, they have the computing shops. They had the R and D can they bring it to the table >>As, as HPC, right. To what they Schultz for of uh, the frontier system. Right. So very impressed. >>So the ecosystem is the key for them is because that's how they're gonna fill the gaps. They can't, they can't only, >>They could, they could high HPC edge piece. I wouldn't count 'em out of that game yet. If you co-locate a box, I'll use the word box, particularly at a telco tower. That's a data center. Yep. Right. If done properly. Yep. So, you know, what outpost was supposed to do actually is a hybrid opportunity. Aruba >>Gives them a unique, >>But the key thing is right. It's a yin and yang, right? It's the ecosystem it's partners to bring those software workload. Absolutely. Right. But HPE has to keep the platform attractive enough. Right. And the key thing there is that you have this workload capability thing that you can bring things, which you've built yourself. I mean, look at the telcos right. Network function, visualization, thousands of man, years into these projects. Right. So if I can't bring it to your edge box, no, I'm not trying to get to your Xbox. Right. >>Hold I gotta ask you since in the Dave too, since you guys both here and Lisa, you know, I said on the opening, they have serious customers and those customers have serious problems, cyber security, ransomware. So yeah. I teach transformation now. Industrial transformation machine learning, check, check, check. Oh, sounds good. But at the end of the day, their customers have some serious problems. Right? Cyber, this is, this is high stakes poker. Yeah. What do you think HP's position for in the security? You mentioned containers, you got all this stuff, you got open source, supply chain, you have to left supply chain issues. What is their position with security? Cuz that's the big one. >>I, I think they have to have a mature attitude that customers expect from HPE. Right? I don't have to educate HP on security. So they have to have the partner offerings again. We're back at the ecosystem to have what probably you have. So bring your own security apart from what they have to have out of the box to do business with them. This is why the shocker this morning was back up in recovery coming. <laugh> it's kind like important for that. Right? Well >>That's, that's, that's more ransomware and the >>More skeleton skeletons in the closet there, which customers should check of course. But I think the expectations HP understands that and brings it along either from partner or natively. >>I, I think it's, I think it's services. I think point next is the point of integration for their security. That's why two thirds is software and services. A lot of that is services, right? You know, you need security, we'll help you get there. We people trust HP >>Here, but we have nothing against point next or any professional service. They're all hardworking. But if I will have to rely on humans for my cyber security strategy on a daily level, I'm getting gray hair and I little gray hair >>Red. Okay. I that's, >>But >>I think, but I do think that's the camera strategy. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of that stuff that's beginning to be designed in, but I, my guess is a lot of it is services. >>Well, you got the Aruba. Part of the booth was packed. Aruba's there. You mentioned that earlier. Is that good enough? Because the word zero trust is kicked around a lot. On one hand, on the other hand, other conversations, it's all about trust. So supply chain and software is trusting trust, trust and verified. So you got this whole mentality of perimeter gone mentality. It's zero trust. And if you've got software trust, interesting thoughts there, how do you reconcile zero trust? And then I need trust. What's what's you? What are you seeing older on that? Because I ask people all the time, they're like, uh, I'm zero trust or is it trust? >>Yeah. The middle ground. Right? Trusted. The meantime people are man manipulating what's happening in your runtime containers. Right? So, uh, drift control is a new password there that you check what's in your runtime containers, which supposedly impenetrable, but people finding ways to hack them. So we'll see this cat and mouse game going on all the time. Yeah. Yeah. There's always gonna be the need for being in a secure, good environment from that perspective. Absolutely. But the key is edge has to be more than Aruba, right? If yeah. HV goes away and says, oh yeah, we can manage your edge with our Aruba devices. That's not enough. It's the virtual probability. And you said the important thing before it's about the data, right? Because the dirty secret of containers is yeah, I move the code, but what enterprise code works without data, right? You can't say as enterprise, okay, we're done for the day check tomorrow. We didn't persist your data, auditor customer. We don't have your data anymore. So filling a way to transport the data. And there just one last thought, right? They have a super interesting asset. They want break lands for the venerable map R right. Which wrote their own storage drivers and gives you the chance to potentially do something in that area, which I'm personally excited about. But we'll see what happens. >>I mean, I think the holy grail is can I, can I put my data into a cloud who's ever, you know, call it a super cloud and can I, is it secure? Is it governed? Can I share it and be confident that it's discoverable and that the, the person I give it to has the right to use it. Yeah. And, and it's the correct data. There's not like a zillion copies running. That's the holy grail. And I, I think the answer today is no, you can, you can do that maybe inside of AWS or maybe inside of Azure, look maybe certainly inside of snowflake, can you do that inside a GreenLake? Well, you probably can inside a GreenLake, but then when you put it into the cloud, is it cross cloud? Is it really out to the edge? And that's where it starts to break down, but that's where the work is to be done. That's >>The one Exide is in there already. Right. So men being men. Yeah. >>But okay. But it it's in there. Yeah. Okay. What do you do with it? Can you share that data? What can you actually automate governance? Right? Uh, is that data discoverable? Are there multiple copies of that data? What's the, you know, master copy. Here's >>A question. You guys, here's a question for you guys analyst, what do you think the psychology is of the CIO or CSO when HP comes into town with GreenLake, uh, and they say, what's your relationship with the hyperscalers? Cause I'm a CIO. I got my environment. I might be CapEx centric or Hey, I'm open model. Open-minded to an operating model. Every one of these enterprises has a cloud relationship. Yeah. Yeah. What's the dynamic. What do you think the psychology is of the CIO when they're rationalizing their, their trajectory, their architecture, cloud, native scale integration with HPE GreenLake or >>HP service. I think she or he hears defensiveness from HPE. I think she hears HPE or he hears HPE coming in and saying, you don't need to go to the cloud. You know, you could keep it right here. I, I don't think that's the right posture. I think it should be. We are your cloud. And we can manage whether it's OnPrem hybrid in AWS, Azure, Google, across those clouds. And we have an edge story that should be the vision that they put forth. That's the super cloud vision, but I don't hear it >>From these guys. What do you think psycho, do you agree with that? >>I'm totally to make, sorry to be boring, but I totally agree with, uh, Dave on that. Right? So the, the, the multi-cloud capability from a trusted large company has worked for anybody up and down the stack. Right? You can look historically for, uh, past layers with cloud Foundry, right? It's history vulnerable. You can look for DevOps of Hashi coop. You can look for database with MongoDB right now. So if HPE provides that data access, right, with all the problems of data gravity and egres cost and the workability, they will be doing really, really well, but we need to hear it more, right. We didn't hear much software today in the keynote. Right. >>Do they have a competitive offering vis-a-vis or Azure? >>The question is, will it be an HPE offering or will, or the software platform, one of the offerings and you as customer can plug and play, right. Will software be a differentiator for HP, right. And will be close, proprietary to the point to again, be open enough for it, or will they get that R and D format that, or will they just say, okay, ES MES here on the side, your choice, and you can use OpenShift or whatever, we don't matter. That's >>The, that's the key question. That's the key question. Is it because it is a competitive strategy? Is it highly differentiated? Oracle is a highly differentiated strategy, right? Is Dell highly differentiated? Eh, Dell differentiates based on its breadth. What? >>Right. Well, let's try for the control plane too. Dell wants to be an, >>Their, their vision is differentiated. Okay. But their execution today is not >>High. All right. Let me throw, let me throw this out at you then. I'm I'm, I'm sorry. I'm I'm HPE. I wanna be the glue layer. Is that, does that fly? >>What >>Do you mean? The group glue layer? I'll I wanna be, you can do Amazon, but I wanna be the glue layer between the clouds and our GreenLake will. >>What's the, what's the incremental value that, that glue provides, >>Provides comfort and reliability and control for the single pane of glass for AWS >>And comes back to the data. In my opinion. Yeah. >>There, there there's glue levels on the data level. Yeah. And there's glue levels on API level. Right. And there's different vendors in the different spaces. Right. Um, I think HPE will want to play on the data side. We heard lots of data stuff. We >>Hear that, >>But we have to see it. Exactly. >>Yeah. But it's, it's lacking today. And so, Hey, you know, you guys know better than I APIs can be fragile and they can be, there's a lot of diversity in terms of the quality of APIs and the documentation, how they work, how mature they are, what, how, what kind of performance they can provide and recoverability. And so just saying, oh wow. We are living the API economy. You know, the it's gonna take time to brew, chime in here. Hi. >><laugh> oh, so guys, you've all been covering HPE for a long time. You know, when Antonio stood up on stage three years ago and said by 2022, and here we are, we're gonna be delivering everything as a service. He's saying we've, we've done it, but, and we're a new company. Do you guys agree with that? >>Definitely. >>I, yes. Yes. With the caveat, I think, yes. The COVID pandemic slowed them down a lot because, um, that gave a tailwind to the hyperscalers, um, because of the, the force of massive O under forecasting working at home. I mean, everyone I talked to was like, no one forecasted a hundred percent work at home, the, um, the CapEx investments. So I think that was an opportunity that they'd be much farther along if there's no COVID people >>Thought it wasn't impossible. Yeah. But so we had the old work from home thing right. Where people trying to get people fired at IBM and Yahoo. Right. So I would've this question covering the HR side and my other hat on. Right. And I would ask CHS let's assume, because I didn't know about COVID shame on me. Right. I said, big California, earthquake breaks. Right. Nobody gets hurt, but all the buildings have to be retrofitted and checked for seism logic down. So everybody's working from home, ask CHS, what kind of productivity gap hit would you get by forcing everybody working from home with the office unsafe? So one, one gentleman, I won't know him, his name, he said 20% and the other one's going ha you're smoking. It's 40 50%. We need to be in the office. We need to meet it first night. And now we went for this exercise. Luckily not with the California. Right. Well, through the price of COVID and we've seen what it can do to, to productivity well, >>The productivity, but also the impact. So like with all the, um, stories we've done over two years, the people that want came out ahead were the ones that had good cloud action. They were already in the cloud. So I, I think they're definitely in different company in the sense of they, I give 'em a pass. I think they're definitely a new company and I'm not gonna judge 'em on. I think they're doing great. But I think pandemic definitely slowed 'em down that about >>It. So I have a different take on this. I think. So we've go back a little history. I mean, you' said this, I steal your line. Meg Whitman took one for the Silicon valley team. Right. She came in. I don't think she ever was excited that I, that you said, you said that, and I think you wrote >>Up, get tape on that one. She >>Had to figure out how do I deal with this mess? I have EDS. I got PC. >>She never should have spun off the PC, but >>Okay. But >>Me, >>Yeah, you can, you certainly could listen. Maybe, maybe Gerstner never should have gone all in on services and IBM would dominate something other than mainframes. They had think pads even for a while, but, but, but so she had that mess to deal with. She dealt with it and however, they dealt with it, Antonio came in, he, he, and he said, all right, we're gonna focus the company. And we're gonna focus the mission on not the machine. Remember those yeah. Presentations, but you just make your eyes glaze over. We're going all in on Azure service >>And edge. He was all on. >>We're gonna build our own cloud. We acquired Aruba. He made some acquisitions in HPC to help differentiate. Yep. And they are definitely a much more focused company now. And unfortunately I wish Antonio would CEO in 2015, cuz that's really when this should have started. >>Yeah. And then, and if you remember back then, Dave, we were interviewing Docker with DevOps teams. They had composability, they were on hybrid really early. I think they might have even coined the term hybrid before VMware tri-state credit for it. But they were first on hybrid. They had DevOps, they had infrastructure risk code. >>HPE had an HP had an awesome cloud team. Yeah. But, and then, and then they tried to go public cloud. Yeah. You know, and then, you know, just made them, I mean, it was just a mess. The focus >>Is there. I give them huge props. And I think, I think the GreenLake to me is exciting here because it's much better than it was two years ago. When, when we talked to, when we started, it's >>Starting to get real. >>It's, it's a real thing. And I think the, the tell will be partners. If they make that right, can pull their different >>Ecosystem, >>Their scale and their customers and fill the software gas with partners mm-hmm <affirmative> and then create that integration opportunity. It's gonna be a home run if they don't do that, they're gonna miss the operating, >>But they have to have their own to your point. They have to have their own software innovation. >>They have to good infrastructure ways to build applications. I don't wanna build with somebody else. I don't wanna take a Microsoft stack on open source stack. I'm not sure if it's gonna work with HP. So they have to have an app dev answer. I absolutely agree with that. And the, the big thing for the partners is, which is a good thing, right? Yep. HPE will not move into applications. Right? You don't have to have the fear of where Microsoft is with their vocal large. Right. If AWS kind of like comes up with APIs and manufacturing, right. Google the same thing with their vertical push. Right. So HPE will not have the CapEx, but >>Application, >>As I SV making them, the partner, the bonus of being able to on premise is an attractive >>Part. That's a great point. >>Hold. So that's an inflection point for next 12 months to watch what we see absolutely running on GreenLake. >>Yeah. And I think one of the things that came out of the, the last couple events this past year, and I'll bring this up, we'll table it and we'll watch it. And it's early in this, I think this is like even, not even the first inning, the machine learning AI impact to the industrial piece. I think we're gonna see a, a brand new era of accelerated digital transformation on the industrial physical world, back office, cloud data center, accounting, all the stuff. That's applications, the app, the real world from space to like robotics. I think that HP edge opportunity is gonna be visible and different. >>So guys, Antonio Neri is on tomorrow. This is only day one. If you can imagine this power panel on day one, can you imagine tomorrow? What is your last question for each of you? What is your, what, what question would you want to ask him tomorrow? Hold start with you. >>How is HPE winning in the long run? Because we know their on premise market will shrink, right? And they can out execute Dell. They can out execute Lenovo. They can out Cisco and get a bigger share of the shrinking market. But that's the long term strategy, right? So why should I buy HPE stock now and have a good return put in the, in the safe and forget about it and have a great return 20 years from now? What's the really long term strategy might be unfair because they, they ran in survival mode to a certain point out of the mass post equipment situation. But what is really the long term strategy? Is it more on the hardware side? Is it gonna go on the HPE, the frontier side? It's gonna be a DNA question, which I would ask Antonio. >>John, >>I would ask him what relative to the macro conditions relative to their customer base, I'd say, cuz the customers are the scoreboard. Can they create a value proposition with their, I use the Microsoft 365 example how they kind of went to the cloud. So my question would be Antonio, what is your core value proposition to CIOs out there who want to transform and take a step function, increase for value with HPE? Tell me that story. I wanna hear. And I don't want to hear, oh, we got a portfolio and no, what value are you enabling your customers to do? >>What and what should that value be? >>I think it's gonna be what we were kind of riffing on, which is you have to provide either what their product market fit needs are, which is, are you solving a problem? Is it a pain point is a growth driver. Uh, and what's the, what's that tailwind. And it's obviously we know at cloud we know edge. The story is great, but what's the value proposition. But by going with HPE, you get X, Y, and Z. If they can explain that clearly with real, so qualitative and quantitative data it's home >>Run. He had a great line of the analyst summit today where somebody asking questions, I'm just listening to the customer. So be ready for this Steve jobs photo, listening to the customer. You can't build something great listening to the customer. You'll be good for the next quarter. The next exponential >>Say, what are the customers saying? <laugh> >>So I would make an observation. And my question would, so my observation would be cloud is growing collectively at 35%. It's, you know, it's approaching 200 billion with a big, big four. If you include Alibaba, IBM has actually said, Hey, we're gonna gr they've promised 6% growth. Uh, Cisco I think is at eight or 9% growth. Dow's growing in double digits. Antonio and HPE have promised three to 4% growth. So what do you have to do to actually accelerate growth? Because three to 4%, my view, not enough to answer Holger's question is why should I buy HPE stock? Well, >>If they have product, if they have customer and there's demand and traction to me, that's going to drive the growth numbers. And I think the weak side of the forecast means that they don't have that fit yet. >>Yeah. So what has to happen for them to get above five, 6% growth? >>That's what we're gonna analyze. I mean, I, I mean, I don't have an answer for that. I wish I had a better answer. I'd tell them <laugh> but I feel, it feels, it feels like, you know, HP has an opportunity to say here's the new HPE. Yeah. Okay. And this is what we stand for. And here's the one thing that we're going to do that consistently drives value for you, the customer. And that's gonna have to come into some, either architectural cloud shift or a data thing, or we are your store for blank. >>All of the above. >>I guess the other question is, would, would you know, he won't answer a rude question, would suspending things like dividends and stock buybacks and putting it into R and D. I would definitely, if you have confidence in the market and you know what to do, why wouldn't you just accelerate R and D and put the money there? IBM, since 2007, IBM spent is the last stat. And I'm looking go in 2007, IBM way, outspent, Google, and Amazon and R and D and, and CapEx two, by the way. Yep. Subsequent to that, they've spent, I believe it's the numbers close to 200 billion on stock buyback and dividends. They could have owned cloud. And so look at this business, the technology business by and large is driven by innovation. Yeah. And so how do you innovate if >>You have I'm buying, I'm buying HP because they're reliable high quality and they have the outcomes that I want. Oh, >>Buy their products and services. I'm not sure I'd buy the stock. Yeah. >>Yeah. But she has to answer ultimately, because a public company. Right. So >>Right. It's this job. Yeah. >>Never a dull moment with the three of you around <laugh> guys. Thank you so much for sharing your insights, your, an analysis from day one. I can't imagine what day two is gonna bring tomorrow. Debut and I are gonna be anchoring here. We've got a jam packed day, lots going on, hearing from the ecosystem from leadership. As we mentioned, Antonio is gonna be Tony >>Alma Russo. I'm dying. Dr. >>EDMA as well as on the CTO gonna be another action pack day. I'm excited for it, guys. Thanks so much for sharing your insights and for letting me join this power panel. >>Great. Great to be here. >>Power panel plus me. All right. For Holger, John and Dave, I'm Lisa, you're watching the cube our day one coverage of HPE discover wraps right now. Don't go anywhere, cuz we'll see you tomorrow for day two, live from Vegas, have a good night.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We're covering Red Hat Summit 2022. We're going to wrap up now, Dave Vellante, Paul Gillin. We want to introduce you to Stephanie Chan, who's our new correspondent. Stephanie, one of your first events, your very first CUBE event. So welcome. >> Thank you. >> Up from NYC. Smaller event, but intimate. You got a chance to meet some folks last night at some of the after parties. What are your overall impressions? What'd you learn this week? >> So this has been my first in-person event in over two years. And even though, like you said, is on the smaller scale, roughly around 1000 attendees, versus it's usual eight to 10,000 attendees. There's so much energy, and excitement, and openness in these events and sessions. Even before and after the sessions people have been mingling and socializing and hanging out. So, I think a lot of people appreciate these in-person events and are really excited to be here. >> Cool. So, you also sat in some of the keynotes, right? Pretty technical, right? Which is kind of new to sort of your genre, right? I mean, I know you got a financial background but, so what'd you think of the keynotes? What'd you think of the format, the theater in the round? Any impressions of that? >> So, I think there's three things that are really consistent in these Red Hat Summit keynotes. There's always a history lesson. There's always, you know, emphasis in the culture of openness. And, there's also inspirational stories about how people utilize open source. And I found a lot of those examples really compelling and interesting. For instance, people use open source in (indistinct), and even in space. So I really enjoyed, you know, learning about all these different people and stories. What about you guys? What do you think were the big takeaways and the best stories that came out of the keynotes? >> Paul, want to start? >> Clearly the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 9 is a major rollout. They do that only about every three years. So that's a big deal to this audience. I think what they did in the area of security, with rolling out sigstore, which is a major new, I think an important new project that was sort of incubated at Red Hat. And they're trying to put in to create an open source ecosystem around that now. And the alliances. I'm usually not that much on partnerships, but the Accenture and the Microsoft partnerships do seem to be significant to the company. And, finally, the GM partnership which I think was maybe kind of the bombshell that they sort of rushed in at the last minute. But I think has the biggest potential impact on Red Hat and its partner ecosystem that is really going to anchor their edge architecture going forward. So I didn't see it so much on the product front, but the sense of Red Hat spreading its wings, and partnering with more companies, and seeing its itself as really the center of an ecosystem indicates that they are, you know, they're in a very solid position in their business. >> Yeah, and also like the pandemic has really forced us into this new normal, right? So customer demand is changing. There has been the shift to remote. There's always going to be a new normal according to Paul, and open source carries us through that. So how do you guys think Red Hat has helped its portfolio through this new normal and the shift? >> I mean, when you think of Red Hat, you think of Linux. I mean, that's where it all started. You think OpenShift which is the application development platforms. Linux is the OS. OpenShift is the application development platform for Kubernetes. And then of course, Ansible is the automation framework. And I agree with you, ecosystem is really the other piece of this. So, I mean, I think you take those three pieces and extend that into the open source community. There's a lot of innovation that's going around each of those, but ecosystems are the key. We heard from Stefanie Chiras, that fundamental, I mean, you can't do this without those gap fillers and those partnerships. And then another thing that's notable here is, you know, this was, I mean, IBM was just another brand, right? I mean, if anything it was probably a sub-brand, I mean, you didn't hear much about IBM. You certainly had no IBM presence, even though they're right across the street running Think. No Arvind present, no keynote from Arvind, no, you know, Big Blue washing. And so, I think that's a testament to Arvind himself. We heard that from Paul Cormier, he said, hey, this guy's been great, he's left us alone. And he's allowed us to continue innovating. It's good news. IBM has not polluted Red Hat. >> Yes, I think that the Red Hat was, I said at the opening, I think Red Hat is kind of the tail wagging the dog right now. And their position seems very solid in the market. Clearly the market has come to them in terms of their evangelism of open source. They've remained true to their business model. And I think that gives them credibility that, you know, a lot of other open source companies have lacked. They have stuck with the plan for over 20 years now and have really not changed it, and it's paying off. I think they're emerging as a company that you can trust to do business with. >> Now I want to throw in something else here. I thought the conversation with IDC analyst, Jim Mercer, was interesting when he said that they surveyed customers and they wanted to get the security from their platform vendor, versus having to buy these bespoke tools. And it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think that's going to happen, right? Because you're going to have an identity specialist. You're going to have an endpoint specialist. You're going to have a threat detection specialist. And they're going to be best of breed, you know, Red Hat's never going to be all of those things. What they can do is partner with those companies through APIs, through open source integrations, they can add them in as part of the ecosystem and maybe be the steward of that. Maybe that's the answer. They're never going to be the best at all those different security disciplines. There's no way in the world, Red Hat, that's going to happen. But they could be the integration point. And that would be, that would be a simplifying layer to the equation. >> And I think it's smart. You know, they're not pretending to be an identity in access management or an anti-malware company, or even a zero trust company. They are sticking to their knitting, which is operating system and developers. Evangelizing DevSecOps, which is a good thing. And, that's what they're going to do. You know, you have to admire this company. It has never gotten outside of its swim lane. I think it's understood well really what it wants to be good at. And, you know, in the software business knowing what not to do is more important than knowing what to do. Is companies that fail are usually the ones that get overextended, this company has never overextended itself. >> What else do you want to know? >> And a term that kept popping up was multicloud, or otherwise known as metacloud. We know what the cloud is, but- >> Oh, supercloud, metacloud. >> Supercloud, yeah, here we go. We know what the cloud is but, what does metacloud mean to you guys? And why has it been so popular in these conversations? >> I'm going to boot this to Dave, because he's the expert on this. >> Well, expert or not, but I mean, again, we've coined this term supercloud. And the idea behind the supercloud or what Ashesh called metacloud, I like his name, cause it allows Web 3.0 to come into the equation. But the idea is that instead of building on each individual cloud and have compatibility with that cloud, you build a layer across clouds. So you do the hard work as a platform supplier to hide the underlying primitives and APIs from the end customer, or the end developer, they can then add value on top of that. And that abstraction layer spans on-prem, clouds, across clouds, ultimately out to the edge. And it's new, a new value layer that builds on top of the hyperscale infrastructure, or existing data center infrastructure, or emerging edge infrastructure. And the reason why that is important is because it's so damn complicated, number one. Number two, every company's becoming a software company, a technology company. They're bringing their services through digital transformation to their customers. And you've got to have a cloud to do that. You're not going to build your own data center. That's like Charles Wang says, not Charles Wang. (Paul laughing) Charles Phillips. We were just talking about CA. Charles Phillips. Friends don't let friends build data centers. So that supercloud concept, or what Ashesh calls metacloud, is this new layer that's going to be powered by ecosystems and platform companies. And I think it's real. I think it's- >> And OpenShift, OpenShift is a great, you know, key card for them or leverage for them because it is perhaps the best known Kubernetes platform. And you can see here they're really doubling down on adding features to OpenShift, security features, scalability. And they see it as potentially this metacloud, this supercloud abstraction layer. >> And what we said is, in order to have a supercloud you got to have a superpaz layer and OpenShift is that superpaz layer. >> So you had conversations with a lot of people within the past two days. Some people include companies, from Verizon, Intel, Accenture. Which conversation stood out to you the most? >> Which, I'm sorry. >> Which conversation stood out to you the most? (Paul sighs) >> The conversation with Stu Miniman was pretty interesting because we talked about culture. And really, he has a lot of credibility in that area because he's not a Red Hat. You know, he hasn't been a Red Hat forever, he's fairly new to the company. And got a sense from him that the culture there really is what they say it is. It's a culture of openness and that's, you know, that's as important as technology for a company's success. >> I mean, this was really good content. I mean, there were a lot, I mean Stefanie's awesome. Stefanie Chiras, we're talking about the ecosystem. Chris Wright, you know, digging into some of the CTO stuff. Ashesh, who coined metacloud, I love that. The whole in vehicle operating system conversation was great. The security discussion that we just had. You know, the conversations with Accenture were super thoughtful. Of course, Paul Cormier was a highlight. I think that one's going to be a well viewed interview, for sure. And, you know, I think that the customer conversations are great. Red Hat did a really good job of carrying the keynote conversations, which were abbreviated this year, to theCUBE. >> Right. >> I give 'em a lot of kudos for that. And because, theCUBE, it allows us to double click, go deeper, peel the onion a little bit, you know, all the buzz words, and cliches. But it's true. You get to clarify some of the things you heard, which were, you know, the keynotes were, were scripted, but tight. And so we had some good follow up questions. I thought it was super useful. I know I'm leaving somebody out, but- >> We're also able to interview representatives from Intel and Nvidia, which at a software conference you don't typically do. I mean, there's the assimilation, the combination of hardware and software. It's very clear that, and this came out in the keynote, that Red Hat sees hardware as matter. It matters. It's important again. And it's going to be a source of innovation in the future. That came through clearly. >> Yeah. The hardware matters theme, you know, the old days you would have an operating system and the hardware were intrinsically linked. MVS in the mainframe, VAX, VMS in the digital mini computers. DG had its own operating system. Wang had his own operating system. Prime with Prime OS. You remember these days? >> Oh my God. >> Right? (Paul laughs) And then of course Microsoft. >> And then x86, everything got abstracted. >> Right. >> Everything became x86 and now it's all atomizing again. >> Although WinTel, right? I mean, MS-DOS and Windows were intrinsically linked for many, many years with Intel x86. And it wasn't until, you know, well, and then, you know, Sun Solaris, but it wasn't until Linux kind of blew that apart. And the internet is built on the lamp stack. And of course, Linux is the fundamental foundation for Red Hat. So my point is, that the operating system and the hardware have always been very closely tied together. Whether it's security, or IO, or registries and memory management, everything controlled by the OS are very close to the hardware. And so that's why I think you've got an affinity in Red Hat to hardware. >> But Linux is breaking that bond, don't you think? >> Yes, but it still has to understand the underlying hardware. >> Right. >> You heard today, how taking advantage of Nvidia, and the AI capabilities. You're seeing that with ARM, you're seeing that with Intel. How you can optimize the operating system to take advantage of new generations of CPU, and NPU, and CPU, and PU, XPU, you know, across the board. >> Yep. >> Well, I really enjoyed this conference and it really stressed how important open source is to a lot of different industries. >> Great. Well, thanks for coming on. Paul, thank you. Great co-hosting with you. And thank you. >> Always, Dave. >> For watching theCUBE. We'll be on the road, next week we're at KubeCon in Valencia, Spain. We're at VeeamON. We got a ton of stuff going on. Check out thecube.net. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. Wikibon.com. We publish there weekly, our breaking analysis series. Thanks for watching everybody. Dave Vellante, for Paul Gillin, and Stephanie Chan. Thanks to the crew. Shout out, Andrew, Alex, Sonya. Amazing job, Sonya. Steven, thanks you guys for coming out here. Mark, good job corresponding. Go to SiliconANGLE, Mark's written some great stuff. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (calm music)

>> Announcer: theCUBE presents "Dell Technologies World," brought to you by Dell. >> Hey, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of day one of "Dell Technologies World 2022" live from the Venetian in Las Vegas. They're excited. I dunno if you heard that, a group behind me very excited to be here. Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante. We're very pleased to welcome Jules Johnston, the SVP of channel from Equinix. Jules, welcome to the program. >> Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. >> And those people back there are very excited, if you heard that big applause when we went live. (Jules laughing) So the vibe here is fantastic for the first live "Dell Technologies World" since 2019. A lot of people here, this Expo Hall is packed. A lot of momentum here, but there's also a lot of momentum at Equinix. Talk to us about what's going on. >> Well, so many exciting things for Equinix and this partnership of Dell sort of gives us a chance to share that with partners here throughout the conference. So we are very excited, as you said about and we just were named to the Fortune 500 this year, 77 quarters of growth consecutively. But underpinning that is having made huge investments in what is the world's largest footprint of global data centers, 240 of them on six continents in 66 markets but then interconnecting them. So they have the connections that Dell customers need to the clouds. They have the connections that they need to all of the future SaaS providers. So that foresight to put together that interconnection network across our footprint has set us on the path we're on today, which we're very grateful to be at in. And really, the things that are happening with Equinix and Dell together couldn't be more of the moment. >> Talk to me about the last two years. The moments of the last two years have been very challenging >> They have. >> For everyone. How has the partnership evolved in that time? >> Well, we, together, Dell and Equinix, what we're doing is really helping our shared interface customers navigate the complexities of their digital transformation. And digital transformation is hard. It's not a one and done and it's not an overnight solution. And so, what we are doing is partnering with Dell to think about putting a dedicated Dell IT stack in an Equinix data center to give customers that sovereign adjacency so that they can have that security proximate to all the clouds and everything else they need to participate in the ecosystem. And then pairing that with these interconnected enterprises. So, Dell and we are helping customers then be able to have some of their solution on-prem, some of their solution in the cloud, access public clouds and use that collectively to define what we're calling the intelligent edge, together. And that intelligent edge means so many different things to customers but it is really our honor to work together with Dell to help each customer define that for themselves. >> Equinix is an amazing company. Like you said, it's... I didn't realize it was that many consecutive quarters but it's a 60 billion plus market cap. If you look at the stock chart, it'll blow your mind. Really incredibly successful. And part of the reason... It's funny, 10, 15 years ago, people thought, well... Or, 10 years ago, anyway, the cloud is going to hurt companies like Equinix. It was the exact opposite. And that's because Charles Phillips used to joke, "Friends don't let friends build data centers." >> Yes. >> And it's not a good use of capital for most companies, unless you're in the data center business. Now, of course, you have some of your own as a service offerings. >> We do. >> What's the overlap with Dell? How do they compliment each other? >> It's a good question because... And we get that. Are you and Dell in fact competitors? No, we see them as wholly complimentary. And in fact, we're working with Dell to bring to market things like something we call PowerEdge, which involves their servers. And PowerStore, which involves their storage, and then VxRail, which is really the hyper-converged infrastructure. And those are just a few first of a series of offerings we expect to bring to market with Dell. And if you think about Metal, and it's Equinix Metal that people sometimes think is a competitor, but what Metal does for customers is it really allows them to advance, have the equipment placed in our data centers so that they can access that capacity and according to spikes or needs that they have. That equipment in our data centers that's there for them to avail themselves of that capacity is most often Dell equipment. So we are really doing and executing that bare Metal as a service together. >> What are some of the things that you're hearing from your partner community, in terms of the partnership with Dell? Partners must be excited, the momentum there. What's going on in the partner community? >> So, that's what's near and dear to my heart since that's what I'm responsible for, Equinix's global partnerships. And they're just very excited about what we're doing with Dell. And to be honest with you, all of our top partners are also top partners of Dell. So it makes sense that we bring it together. So, big categories of partners like the world's largest global network service providers, some of whom are here and who we'll meet with, AT&T, Orange Business Services, those folks in addition to the world's largest global systems integrators, Kendra, Deloitte, Accenture, WiPro, DXC. All of these are partners that Dell and we will meet with together to further our, what we call Power of Three, that together we're better. Because as much as Dell and Equinix are delivering, the customers most often don't have the experience they need to execute it without a partner. So they are relying on those partners to take what we are doing and make it their own. And so, they're excited about it. You see, it's a big opportunity for them from a... Of revenue services and an opportunity for them to step into a next level trusted advisor status. So partners are excited and we're going to be spending a lot of time with them the next few days. >> Do you see Equinix... 'Cause these partnerships are not bespoke partnerships. It's an ecosystem that's organic and evolving and growing. Are you a dot connector in a way? Can it be a flywheel effect in your ecosystem? >> Well, so our ecosystems that we provide, wide range of those from high frequency trading to connected cars, to the internet of things and content providers, we do see it as our role to the 10,000 and growing customers that are in our 240 data centers on six continents that provide those ecosystems. It is our mission to continue to grow that, enrich it, because that does differentiate us greatly from another data center provider. And it's the combination of the ecosystem that you'd find and the people you can connect to at Equinix. And then also the leverage of our fabric in order to be able to access your future needs. >> And it's a lot of technology underneath these. It's that first layer one, I guess, if you will, of the data center, right? And so, a lot of your customers or your partner's customers, they just don't want to be in that business as we were saying before. I mean, it's just too expensive. The power requirements are going through the roof. So you got to be really good at managing power. >> You do. In fact... So first of all, you're right. It's extremely difficult for them to also be able to make that commitment to keep a data center they would manage themselves at the level that Equinix is able to invest. So it's very difficult for people to do it themselves. But even show... Another point you mentioned actually about the power, is near and dear to our hearts because Equinix is super committed to sustainability. And so we've made a commitment to wholly renewable energy. And it's something that we talk a lot about how we also help partners like Dell meet their initiatives. So partners like AT&T meet their connected climate goals. So we are actually using that and coming together with Dell on that story, and then helping to amplify that with our partners. >> And that's... How do you do that? That's putting data centers where you can cool with ambient air. Is it being near the Columbia River? What's your strategy in that regard? >> On sustainable... I have to be honest to you. I would be out of my depth if I didn't say... >> This is the high level, yeah. >> So we are deploying some of the latest technologies about that and then experts people who, all they do is really help us to reduce the carbon footprint and be able to offset that, be able to use solar, be able to use wind, be able to take advantage of that. And then also to navigate what's available when you're in 240 locations on six continents. It's not the same options to reduce your power consumption and your burden are different in Africa as we just discovered with our main one acquisition than they are in India or than they are in other parts of the world. So it is for us a journey, and we've been assembling a lot of the talent to do that, >> But you're so large now, even a small percentage improvement can really move the needle. >> And I think because we are the largest, it is incumbent upon us to really set the standard and be committed to it. And we do see other people following, which is a good thing for all of us. >> Well, how important is that in your partnership conversations. That partners have that same focus and commitment on ESG that Equinix has. >> Partners care a lot about it, but customers ask us both all the time. We increasingly see a portion of an RFP or scope of work asking, "Before I decide to go with Equinix and Dell, tell me how you're going to impact the environment. Tell me about your commitment." And so, we are committed to it, but customers are demanding it too. >> So it's... >> Where do you... Go ahead please. >> Oh, I was just going to say, it's coming from the voice of the customer, which Equinix is listening to, we know Dell is listening to it as well. >> I'm sorry, one more time. >> That the sustainability, the ESG demand is coming from the customers, as you were saying. >> Both. I mean, we want to do the right thing and we've made commitments to it, but our customers are holding us accountable to it. And sustainability is now a board level priority. It is for us. And it is for companies like Dell and it is for partners and customers. >> It really is... It's up there with security in terms of the board level conversation. Where do you want to see the partner ecosystem in the next let's call it three to five years. In your business you can look out that far. >> Well, I think that our partners and by that I mean Dell's and our mutual partners, We've been listening to customers with Dell to deliver a flexible set of options for how customers would consume Equinix and Dell. So our partners are going to be integrating a variety of those in order to meet the customer where they are in that journey. Whether they want to buy Apex as a service, whether they want to buy Equinix Metal, whether they want to have a partner put together bespoke, do-it-yourself combination with other services. I mean, the customers are going to demand a choice of options. I think partners are going to embrace multiple versions of that so that they can to meet the customer where they are and take them. >> Well. That's incredibly important these days to meet the customer where they are, the customers have a lot of choice. >> It is. >> But everything that we're all doing is for the customer ultimately at the end of the day. >> Yes, it is. And you know, the customers are getting savvier, but we are all still early in this journey as far as the edge. I think we are all still grappling that. Right now we like to say that as customers are looking to define that, the footprint that we offer together with Dell gives them an awfully robust set of choices for now. And then we want to continue to invest and expand to be wherever they need us. >> Well, that's the thing about your business? It's optionality. I mean, the cloud has a lot of stuff, but you can't get everything you want in the cloud. >> Jules: You can, >> And you can put anything in your data center. That's IT. >> You can, but you may not know what you need yet. And so that's one of the things we spend a lot of time having our solutions, architects and our sales to people together, but they'll talk about future proofing, their strategy. So future proofing, that combination of on-prem and in an Equinix data center, and maybe some public and future proofing, leveraging our fabric so that they might elect different SaaS space services or cloud-based services a year to five years from now than they are even thinking about today. And, they may expand their edge over time, because they may see that as at the customer end point. Today, most businesses are still using a footprint like ours as their edge, but that could change. And so we want to be there when it does. >> Yeah. That's a great point because you don't want to necessarily have to rip it out every co couple of years. If you can have an architecture that can grow. Yeah, sure. You might want to upgrade it. >> Well, and that's one of the most appealing things about services like Metal where they also do prevent that sort of rip and replace, but they also help people navigate the supply chain shortages that are going on right now. So this has been a trying two years for supply chain shortages. And being able to take advantage of Dell equipment already staged at an Equinix data center and partners can then bring their customers a quicker immediate response. >> Have you also seen this? You mentioned the supply chain shortages, some of the many challenges that we've experienced in a last few years. How much of a factor has the great resignation been? The labor shortages, the cybersecurity skills gap, on folks coming to Equinix saying, "Help, we don't have the resources here to do this ourselves." >> We have been fortunate to be... If you're asking me how the reservation has affected us as a company. >> No your customers. >> Oh customers it has. Oh, okay I get it. So it is a challenge for them, but it's an opportunity for our partners. So what I see there is it's been challenging for customers to hold onto that talent, but partners are filling that gap. And we with Equinix being forced to hold onto a lot of our best and brightest. And so we put them together with our partners and we try to help customers fill those gaps. >> Well that's the most important thing, filling those gaps. >> You ever been inside one of these ultra modern data centers? >> I have not, not yet. It's pretty cool, isn't it? >> Have you ever had a tour of one? >> I've never had a tour of an Equinix data center, but I've seen some modern data centers that will blow your mind? >> Well, they come with all the requisite biometrics and man traps and all of the sort of bells and whistles that are actually the first slay of physical security, but then once you get into the data center, then we get into the virtual and the digital security that you would expect. >> Yeah, it's good. And you know, it's not like you drive by the data center, and there's a big sign that says, here's the data center. They're trying to stay a little hidden and then like getting in, it's like getting into Fort Knox. It's probably harder. And then, but then the it's like this giant clean room. It's amazingly clean and just huge. It'll blow your mind. >> And inside the data centers, all the world's networks come together and peer, and then we have inside their, the most direct roam reps to the cloud. So you would expect there's a lot of wires and pipes running very neatly through a very secure clean... >> Cooling systems and power systems that are just... >> Pristine environment for sure. >> Amazing engineering. >> It is really. >> We need a tour. >> Do you let people tour your data center? >> I will bring both of you on a tour. >> Awesome. >> Be my guests. >> I would love to. Great. >> Sounds fantastic. Would love to. >> We'll bring a camera. (laughing) Oh, no, we're not allowed. >> Not today. >> No phones, no phones sequester. So what are some of the things that you're excited about seeing and hearing the next couple of days as this is the first time we've all gotten to be together in so long? >> We are excited about the conversations that we're going to have, power of three that I was talking about. So, we really pride ourselves on having that combination add up to more to benefit the customer. And so this will be sort of a coming out party of sorts. Equinix and Dell will meet with almost 20 different global partners that are really important to both of us. So I am most excited about those conversations and about the education I'm going to get on the ways they're thinking about integrating it differently, because that is good choice for the market. That is good choice for the customer set, for the enterprises out there. So that's what I'm most excited about. >> Awesome, sounds like tremendous opportunity, lots going on this week. But thank you for coming on Jules, >> Oh my pleasure, thank you. talking about... >> How Equinix and Dell better together, the way that your channel partner program is growing and of course the momentum of the company. Can't wait to see what happens next year. >> Thank you. Thank you. Well, we will aim to deliver and thank you again for having us. >> Thanks Jules. >> Our pleasure. For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's live coverage day one, "Dell Technologies World" live from Las Vegas. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (slow upbeat music)

>> theCUBE presents Dell Technologies World, brought to you by Dell. >> Hey everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of day one of Dell Technologies World 2022 Live from the Venetian in Las Vegas. They're excited I dunno if you heard that. A group behind me very excited to be here. Lisa Martin, Dave Vallante. We're very pleased to welcome Jules Johnston, the SVP of channel from Equinix. Jules, welcome to the program. >> Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. >> And those people back there are very excited if you heard that. Big applause going went live. So the vibe here is fantastic for the first live Dell Technologies World since 2019, a lot of people here, this expo hall is packed, lot of momentum here but there's also a lot of momentum at Equinix. Talk to us about what's going on. >> Well, you know, so many exciting things for Equinix and, you know, in this partnership of Dell, it sort of gives us a chance to share that with partners here throughout the conference. So we are very excited, as you said about, and we just, we named to the Fortune 500 this year, 77 quarters of growth consecutively but underpinning that is having made huge investments in what is the world's largest footprint of global data centers, 240 of them on six continents in 66 markets, but then interconnecting them so they have the connections that Dell customers need to the clouds, they have the connections that they need to all of the future SaaS providers. So that foresight to put together that interconnection network across our footprint, has set us on the path we're on today which we're very grateful to be at in and really the things that are happening with Equinix and Dell together couldn't be more of the moment. >> Talk to me about that. The last two years, the moments of the last two years have been very challenging. >> They have been. >> For everyone. How has the partnership evolved in that time? >> Well, you know, we at together, Dell and Equinix what we're doing is really helping our shared interface customers navigate the complexities of their digital transformation and digital transformation is hard, it's not of one and done and it's not an overnight solution and so what we are doing is partnering with Dell to think about putting a dedicated Dell IT stack in an Equinix data center, to give customers that sovereign adjacency so that they can have that security proximate to our all the clouds and everything else they need to participate in the ecosystem and then pairing that with, you know these interconnected enterprises. So Dell and we are helping customers then be able to have some of their solution OnPrem, some of their solution in the cloud, access public clouds and use that collectively to define what we're calling the intelligent edge together and that intelligent edge means so many different things to customers, but it is really our honor to work together with Dell to help each customer define that for themselves. >> Eqiuinix's an amazing company, like you said, I didn't realize it was that many consecutive quarters but it's a 60 billion plus market cap. If you look at the stock chart it'll blow your mind, really incredibly successful and part of the reason is funny, you know, 10, 15 years ago people thought, well, oh, 10 years ago anyway, the cloud is going to hurt companies like Equinix. It was exact opposite and that's because, you know Charles Phillips used to joke, friends don't let friends build data centers. >> Yes. >> Right? And it's not a good use of capital for most companies unless you're in the data center business. Now, of course you have some of your own as a service offerings. >> We do. >> What's the overlap with Dell? How do they compliment each other? >> It's a good question because, you know, and we get that are you and Dell in fact competitors? And no we see them as wholly complimentary and in fact, we're working with Dell to bring to market things like something we call PowerEdge which involves their servers and PowerStore which involves their storage and then VxRail which is really the hyperconverged infrastructure and those are a few first of a series of offerings we expect to bring to market with Dell and if you think about metal and it's Equinix Metal that people sometimes think is a competitor, but what metal does for customers is it really allows them to advance have the equipment placed in our data center so that they can access that capacity and according to spikes or needs that they have. That equipment in our data centers that's there for them to avail themselves to that capacity is most often Dell equipment. So we are really doing and executing that bare metal as a service together. >> What are some of the things that you're hearing from your partner community in terms of the partnership with Dell? Are partners must be excited the momentum there. What's going on in the partner community? >> So, you know, that's what near and dear to my heart since that's what I'm responsible for Equinix's global partnerships, and they are very excited about what we're doing with Dell and to be honest with you, all of our top partners are also top partners of Dell so it makes sense that we bring it together. So, you know, big categories of partners like the world's largest global network service providers, some of whom are here and who we'll meet with the AT&T, Orange Business Services, those folks in addition to the world's largest global systems integrators, Kyndryl, Deloitte, Accenture, Wipro all, DXC, all of these are partners that Dell and we will meet with together to further our, what we call power three that together we're better because as much as Dell and Equinix are delivering, the customers most often don't have the experience they need to execute it without a partner so they are relying on those partners to take what we are doing and make it their own and so if they're excited about it, it's a big opportunity for them from a revenue services and an opportunity for them to step into a next level trusted advisor status so partners are excited and we're going to be spending a lot of time with them the next few days. >> Do you see Equinix, you know, 'cause these partnerships are not bespoke partnerships, it's an ecosystem that's organic and evolving and growing. Are you a dot connector in a way? Can it be a flywheel effect in your ecosystem? >> Well, so our ecosystems that we provide wide range of those from high frequency trading to connected cars, to the internet, things many and content providers that we are, we do see it as our role to, you know, the 10,000 and growing customers that are in our 240 data centers on six continents that provide those ecosystems, it is our mission to continue to grow that and enrich it because that does differentiate us greatly from another data center provider and it's the combination of the ecosystem that you find and the people you can connect to at Equinix and then also the leverage of our fabric in order to be able to access your future needs. >> And there's a lot of technology underneath these, it's that first layer one I guess if you will of the data center, right? And so a lot of your customers or your partners customers, they just don't want to be in that business as we were saying before, I mean it's just too expensive, the power requirements are going through the roof so you got to be really good at managing power. >> You do. In fact, you know, so first of all, you're right, it's extremely difficult for them to also be able to make that kind of commitment to keep a data center they would manage themselves at the level that Equinix is able to invest so it's very difficult for people to do it themselves but even show, another point you mentioned actually about the power is near and dear to our hearts because Equinix is super committed to sustainability and so we've made a commitment to wholly renewable energy and it's something that we talk a lot about how we also help partners like Dell meet their initiatives or partners like AT&T meet their connected climate goals. So we are actually using that and coming together with Dell on that story, so that, and then helping to amplify that with our partners. >> And that's, how do you do that? That's putting data centers where you can cool with ambient air or is it being near the Columbia River? What's your strategy in that regard? >> It's sustainable. I have to be honest to you. I would be out of my depth if I didn't say. >> This is at high level. >> So we are deploying some of the latest technologies about that and then experts. People who, you know who all they do is really help us to reduce the carbon footprint and be able to offset that, be able to use solar, be able to use wind, be able to take advantage of that and then also to navigate what's available when you're in 240 locations on six continents it's not the same options to reduce your power consumption and your burden are different in Africa as we just discovered with our main one acquisition than they are in India or than they are in other parts of the world. So it is for us a journey and we've been assembling a lot of the talent to do that. >> But you're so large now, even a small percentage improvement can really move the needle. >> And I think because we are the largest, it is incumbent upon us to really set the standard and be committed to it and we do see other people following which is a good thing for all of us. >> Well how important is that in your partnership conversations that partners have that same focus and commitment on ESG that Equinix has? >> Partners care a lot about it but customers ask us both all the time. I mean, we increasingly see a portion of an RFP or a scope of work asking, before I decide to go with Equinix and Dell, tell me how you're going to impact the environment, tell me about your commitment and so we are committed to it but customers are demanding it too. >> So it's com-- >> Where do you. Go ahead please. >> Oh I was just going to say, it's coming from the voice of the customer which EquinIx is listening to we know Dell is listening to it as well. >> I'm sorry one more time? >> That the sustainability of the ESG demand is coming from the customers you were saying? >> It both, like I mean, we want to do the right thing and we've made commitments to it but our customers are holding us accountable to it and, you know, sustainability is now a board level priority. It is for us and it is for companies like Dell and it is for our partners and customers. >> It really is. I mean, it's up there with security. >> It is. >> In terms of the board level conversation. Where do you want to see the partner ecosystem in the next, let's call it three to five years? In your business you can look out that far. >> Well, you know, I think that they, our partners, and that I mean Dell's and our mutual partners, you know, we've been listening to customers with Dell to deliver a flexible set of options for how customers would consume Equinix and Dell so our partners are going to be integrating a variety of those in order to meet the customer where they are in that journey, whether they want to buy Apex as a service, whether they want to buy Equinix Metal, whether they want to have a partner put together bespoke do it yourself combination with other services. I mean, the customers are going to demand a choice of options. I think partners are going to embrace multiple versions of that so that they can, you know, to meet the customer where they are and take them. >> Well that's incredibly important these days to meet the customer where they are. The customers have a lot of choice. >> It is. >> But everything that we're all doing is for the customer ultimately at the end of the day. >> Yes, it is and, you know, the customers are getting savvier but we are all still early in this journey, as far as the edge, you know, I mean, I think we're all still grappling that. For right now we like to say that as customers are looking to define that, the footprint that we offer together with Dell gives them an awfully robust set of choices for now and then we want to continue to invest and expand to be wherever they need us. >> Well that's the thing about your business, it's optionality. I mean, the cloud has a lot of stuff but you can't get everything you want in the cloud. >> You can. >> And you can put anything in your data center, that's IT. >> You can, but you may not know what you need yet and so that's one of the things we spend a lot of time having our solutions architects and our sales people together with Dell talk about future proofing, their strategy. So future proofing, that combination of OnPrem and in an Equinix data center and maybe some public and future proofing, leveraging our fabric so that they might elect different SaaS space services or cloud-based services a year to five years from now than the year you're even thinking about today and they may expand their edge over time because they may sort of see that at the customer end point. Today most businesses are still sort of using a footprint like ours as their edge, but that could change and so we want to be there when it does. >> Yeah, that's a great point because you don't want to necessarily have to rip it out every couple of years if you can have an architecture that can grow. Yeah sure, you might want to upgrade it. >> Well, and that's one of the most appealing things about services like metal, where they also, they do sort of prevent that sort of rip and replace but they also help people navigate the supply chain shortages that are going on right now. So you know, this has been a trying two years for supply chain shortages, and being able to take advantage of Dell equipment already staged at an Equinix data center and partners can then bring their customers a quicker immediate response. >> Have you also seen this, you mentioned the supply chain shortages, some of the many challenges that we've experienced in the last few years, how much of a factor has the great resignation been? The labor shortages, the cybersecurity skills gap, on folks coming to Equinix saying help, we don't have the resources here to do this ourselves? >> We have been fortunate to to be... If you're asking about how the reservation has affected us as a company. >> No your customers. >> Oh our customers it has. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. >> Yes. >> So it is a challenge for them but it's an opportunity for our partners. So what I see there is it's been challenging for customers to hold onto that talent but partners are filling that gap and we've at Equinix have been fortunate to hold onto a lot of our best and brightest and so we put them together with our partners and we try to help customers fill those gaps. >> Well that's the most important thing, filling those gaps. >> You ever been inside one of these ultra modern data centers? >> I have not, not yet. >> It's pretty cool, isn't it? I mean-- >> Have you ever had a tour of one? >> I've never had a tour of an Equinix data center, but I've seen some modern data centers that will blow your mind. >> Well I mean, they come with all the requisite, bio metrics and man traps and all of the sort bells and whistles that are actually the first layer of physical security, but then once you get into the data center then we have sort of, we get into the virtual and the digital security that you would expect. So it's-- >> Yeah, it's good and you know, it's not like you drive by the data center and there's a big sign that says here's the data center, it is kind of, they're trying to stay a little hidden and then it's, getting in it's like getting into fork knots. It's probably harder but then, it's like this giant clean room, right? It's amazingly clean and just huge. It'll blow your mind. >> Inside these data centers, all the world's networks come together and peer, and then we have inside the most direct RomReps to the cloud so you would expect. There's a lot of wires and pipes running very neatly through a very secure, clean-- >> Cooling systems and power systems and it's just. >> Pristine environment for sure. >> Amazing engineering. >> It is. >> So I need a tour. >> You should. Do you let people tour your data centers? >> Well I will bring both of you on a tour. >> Awesome. >> Be my guests. >> I would love to. Yeah, great. >> It sounds fantastic. >> We'd love to. >> So last couple-- >> We'll bring a camera. (both laugh) Oh, no, not allowed. >> Not today. No phones, no phones sequester. >> So what are some of the things that you're excited about seeing and hearing the next couple of days as this is the first time we we've all gotten to be together in so long? >> So well, you know, we are excited about the conversations that we're going to have power of three that I was talking about. So you know, we really pride ourselves on sort of having that combination add up to more to benefit the customer and so this will be sort of a coming out party of sorts for Equinix and Dell will meet with, you know almost 20 different global partners that are really important to both of us so I am most excited about those conversations and about the education I'm going to get on the ways they're thinking about integrating it differently because that is good choice for the market, that is good choice for the customer set so for the enterprises out there so that's what I'm most excited about. >> Awesome, sounds like tremendous opportunity, lots going on this week, but thank you for coming on Jules talking about-- >> Oh, my pleasure >> An hour of Equinix and Dell better together, the way that your channel partner, your program is growing and of course the momentum of the company. Can't wait to see what happens next year. >> Thank you. Thank you, we will aim to deliver and thank you again for having us. >> Thanks Jules. >> Our pleasure. For Dave Vallante, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's Live Coverage day one Dell Technologies World Live from Las Vegas. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (upbeat music)