>>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Dell tech world 2022. My name is Dave Volante and I'm here in our cube studios in Massachusetts getting ready for the first in person DT w since 2019, you know, Charles Phillips, the CEO of Infor and former Oracle ex once set on the cube friends, don't let friends build data centers anymore. It's just not the best use of capital for most companies, unless you happen to be in the data center business like Sexter organizations wanna make hybrid connections to the cloud. They need a partner that knows how to build and manage world class data centers that are both efficient and resilient. And in this segment, we're gonna talk about the importance of hybrid strategies for organizations, how they're approaching hybrid and why a partner strategy is important to support the next decade of digital transformation initiatives. And with me are Randy Roland. Who's the COO of six Tara and Holland Barry, who is the field CTO for the company. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. >>Good to meet her. Thanks for having us. >>Hey, Randy, as a relatively new player, unlike a lot of data center operators, Cera, you're not shackled by decades of technical debt. Tell us more about the company. >>Yeah. So as you, uh, already discussed Ceras a data center company, and we're one of the few that can provide colocation globally. And so that allows our customers to scale, uh, across the globe, as our business scales, we operate in 28 markets. We have over 60 data centers and we continue to add more dots to the map based on customer demand. And the primary way we differentiate is that we've built a true global data center platform. And what do I mean by that is that we have a combination of 2300 customers, uh, enterprises, technology, service providers, government agencies, we're a leader in interconnection. Uh, we have a commitment to carry neutrality and to provide low latency access to all the different cloud platforms. And we've made major investments in developing our own technology in house. And this will come out. As we talk about hybrid cloud is to make our data centers easier to consume. Uh, we live in a cloud first world, and so we've got to be able to be responsive and be able to deliver capacity on demand and to allow our customer members to dynamically connect to each other so they can start to consume these valuable services. And so that's really what we're doing at Cera. >>You know, Randy, just a follow up is because when the cloud first came out, everybody said, oh, companies like, like yours, Dana data center operations are toast. And the exact opposite happened. It was like this rising tide lifted all boats. The, the business is, is booming. It's, uh, it's actually quite room, isn't it? >>Yeah, actually it's a good point. We actually lean into, uh, cloud consumption. I think, uh, if you remember, the cloud operates in four walls. And so when a company, um, actually starts to deploy and leverage more, they need a place to land their digital infrastructure hub, where they can make connections to all the different cloud solutions they're gonna consume. And they're using their own internal resources at the same time. And so the more that we adopt cloud, um, and lean into cloud, the more likely our customer gonna choose us. And back to your opening comment about, uh, the, the quote from the Oracle executive in, in my career, I've been in the data center business for a long time and it, it's definitely a generational thing. We have newer generation of it leaders when they think about their internal data center, their actual internal data center is ours. They're thinking about their own four walls sitting on their own property like they did historically. And so, uh, they view internal data centers as the contracts they have, uh, with six companies like six. >>Excellent. All right, Holland, let's bring you into the conversation. What are you seeing with, with hybrid cloud strategies? You, why are companies choosing hybrid? Give us some color there. >>Yeah, I think, you know, we, as a company sit in an interesting confluence of some workload movements, if you will. Um, so I think there's been, in some cases, an overcorrection in the public cloud, people thought that a cloud first strategy meant that you have to throw everything up in a public cloud. Uh, especially over the last couple years when we had, you know, the surprise of a large remote workforce. And as you mentioned at the top of the call, Dave, we also have folks with the shrinking appetite to own and operate their data centers, right? So the hybrid approach is a, um, a selective methodology to really look at the applications, uh, look at the strengths of each one of those venues, where you can run your applications and workloads, and really choosing the one that uses the strengths. And there's several, uh, drivers behind that. Uh, some of them are cost. Some of them are performance. Some of them might have to do a security or data sovereignty. Um, so you can really match those requirements and those business outcomes that you're looking to achieve, uh, and align them with that platform. That's that's best suited to serve it. >>So you mentioned a few of 'em, but I wanna sort of stay on that for a minute. Is it, is it, you know, egress cost, everybody talks about that, you know, latency proximity to the cloud. I mean, I think there's a lot of times, I think the ideal situation is you put your high performance, you know, transaction low latency stuff in one of your data centers. And, you know, a lot of the data is, is in the cloud that you might need access to. But is there other innovation, you know, talk a little bit more about the drivers that you're seeing with customers? >>Absolutely. We, I think, um, as it relates to data gravity and the potential relation to egress charges, that is a huge, uh, consideration, cuz there's a cost and a performance component to that. If you decide you want to take that data and move somewhere else, if it's in the public cloud, you're gonna pay some, uh, pretty large egres fees, but there's certainly other drivers, um, performance being another big one. Uh, if I've got a, a data lake or, or a big data analytics platform or maybe an AI platform that needs to live close to the data. Um, and especially if those workloads that are associated with crunching, the data are kind of high steady state, maybe even mission critical workloads that is certainly a workload profile. That's better suited to run within our four walls. You can have those CPU or GPU comput nodes sitting right next to those large data sets, operating with each other at land speed. Um, so in terms of the drivers behind, uh, making a, a venue change, if you will, I think cost is one of the biggest ones that we see and, and maybe performance and security following close after. >>So, so how are customers approaching hybrid? Can you paint a picture of kinda what that connection looks like and how, how they, you know, land on their strategies? >>Yeah, absolutely. So they're doing, uh, what I like to call a workload appropriateness, uh, exercise. And as they think about recalibrating where those workloads live, exactly what I said before, they're looking at the strengths of the platform and, uh, lining up those application profiles to live in, in the appropriate place. We have a unique advantage, uh, because of our interconnection profile and our adjacency to public cloud platforms, where if people want to have application tiers that may be sent on both sides of the fence, if you will, uh, we have super, super low latency connections. You can connect, you know, layer two, uh, maybe out to AWS, um, and, you know, have your VPC on one side, have, uh, you know, dedicated single tenant environments on our side and have those applications interact with each other. And then in a super low latency fashion, >>Hey, lemme just ask a follow up question on that. Because I remember the Y2K days, there was a, a lot of activity, a lot of spending and then CIOs wanted to look at their portfolio and, and rationalize that portfolio. When you talk about workload appropriateness, are you seeing a similar application rationalization exercise going on or is it just a Hey can spending, >>Uh, absolutely. We're seeing rationalization and I think what's happening is folks are getting a little more savvy about forecasting, the growth of their application, uh, the growth of the data associated with it, what the cost may be associated with needing to move them around to different venues. Um, and so we're, we're definitely seeing people look at those numbers and make decisions about workload placement based on that analytics and, and kind of knowledge of what it means down the road and also where the data might need to live locally too. We're seeing people, uh, being a little more cognizant geographically around data where it lives and how that relates to where the computer associated with that data is. >>Yeah. Hey Randy, can you tell us a little bit more from a business perspective about the Dell partnership? How did that come about, you know, who does, what, what are the swim lanes overlaps? Maybe you can help us understand that. >>Yeah, so we're very excited about, uh, our Dell partnership, as you can imagine, with as many customers and many data centers, as we've got deployed, we have Dell, uh, located it in a large percentage of our customer environments. And so it's just natural that we work together to figure out how we can continue to meet, uh, our customer's needs. And so the core idea that I'm excited about around Dell is that Dell has an excellent technology platform in all fronts, they've got great compute and storage and all types of software solutions. And what we want to do is help them make their platform more on demand. And so what do I mean by that? If you think about the historical, uh, time, it takes to deploy a traditional colo environment from the time you spec the cage, do you ship the equipment, you install the network, you rack and stack the equipment, unload the cloud stack. >>It takes weeks to months to deploy. And so what we're doing is working very closely with Dell to look at our existing customers and new prospects that are interested in their platform and how can we pre-provision that capacity in, in the data center make it so it's already plugged into the data center already is powered up. It's connected to the network and a customer can purchase it on demand. And so the idea behind this is how can we give our customers all the benefits of Kolo, which is what, uh, Holland was talking about a minute ago, but deliver that platform at the speed of cloud. And that's really the essence of the partnership we have with Dell. Uh, we think it could be explosive. Uh, we think there's a lot of opportunity, not only, uh, for us, but also for Dell as they continue to retain their customers and their customers go through tech refresh cycles, if they can have on demand technology that they're already familiar with, they can get the benefits that you get from co-location at the speed of cloud. And that that's what our, the, the basis of our, our relationship. >>Yeah. Thank you. So Holland, I mean, Randy was saying one of the pillars of Dell tech world this year is the whole as a service thrust. And, you know, essentially what it is, my, my viewpoint is Dell's building out its own cloud. That's, you know, it's, it's its aspiration I think, is to connect on-prem to, through hybrid, to public clouds across clouds, out to the edge extract that all that complexity and you guys would be a key part of that from a, from a CTO's perspective, that's a different mindset. I mean, it changes the way we manage, think about procure, you know, spend, uh, um, and, and maybe that even the technical configurations of, of how we deliver and consume it, you give us some thoughts on that. >>Absolutely. Look, I think what we're doing is we're laying the foundation for a truly hybrid experience. Um, Randy mentioned, uh, us going through great lengths with our technology partners like Dell and make the data center consumable in an automated fashion. And so as we increasingly move into technologies like containers and using coordinators managers like Kubernetes, we really now have the ability to make a true hybrid experience. And if you think about the experience of deploying, you know, in a data center, whether it's your own or a co like ours, that was, you know, a 60 to 90 day conversation to, to get that infrastructure spun up. And so now if you can consume public cloud resources, just like we've been used to doing where you can swipe a card and get access to infrastructure in a matter of minutes or hours have the same experience with us, we've kind of closed that last mile of infrastructure delivery. And the other neat thing about this is, uh, if you have a cloud first mandate, if some of those workloads are running a ter data center, uh, we check all those same boxes, right? Uh, we, we have infrastructure that sits off X. We have a global platform. Uh, we have, you know, highly automated environment. So you can really now start extracting yourself a little bit from the infrastructure and start focusing on the important stuff, which the applications that sit on top. >>So from a security standpoint, you have a similar, you know, the cloud guys talk about the shared responsibility model. Is that a similar model that, that you guys have? Can you describe that? >>Yeah, it's, it's, it's very analogous to this shared responsibility model and, and public cloud. We give a little bit more control to our customers, like things like, you know, dictate maintenance windows. Um, we give a little bit more control in terms of access to the infrastructure. Uh, it's one of the reasons that organizations like running infrastructure with us is because we can hand off control to these certain things that the lower levels of the infrastructure stack versus that higher level of abstraction that happens with public cloud. >>And what, what kind of skills are you after, uh, these days? Is it people that can squeeze, you know, more power and, you know, more efficient cooling, uh, is it infrastructure management? You mentioned Kubernetes before. What, what matters to a company like yours from a skill standpoint? >>Yeah. And to terms of our staff, it is at the lower, uh, levels of the stack, if you will. So maybe going, you know, up to, uh, layer two or three, if we think about the OSI model. So certainly power engineering, cooling engineering, the stuff that physically runs our, our data center, that's our meat and potatoes. That's important to us, but as you consider our digital platform, um, certainly the networking, uh, know how knowledge of the entire stack, knowing how things are architected, understanding how cloud works, how understanding how cloud connectivity works. These are all super, super important skill sets. So we span the spectrum a bit. Um, but it's less on the upper ends of it, you know, kind of going up to layer seven, >>Although I'd imagine that data center automation is obviously a big part of your, your IP, right. Is that something that you have guys bring to the table? Yes. >>Yeah, it's actually one of our key innovations is around how we've architected our software platform, how we do our automation, uh, how we run our network. Uh, we we've, uh, built a, a super, super innovative SDN fabric that powers all of our Metro regions that enables the delivery, the infrastructure that hangs off of it. Um, so yeah, a huge percentage of our I P is around that software innovation and, uh, networking automation. >>Great. Randy, I wonder if you could close it out for us. Uh, I'd love your thoughts on where you'd like to see the Dell partnership go and any other, you know, information you'd like to leave the audience with. >>Yeah. I think you've asked a couple questions about the perspective from a CTO and the way that we want to build our solutions is if you are a CTO or if you're a cloud architect, what we are trying to build is a set of Legos to allow you to assemble your ultimate hybrid it solution to use a combination of traditional colocation, where you have equipment that you own, that you manage on demand, bare metal from great partnerships, like where we have with Dell, that can augment what you have in colo have access to a rich ecosystem of technology providers that sit in the same data center markets so that you can start to, to actually augment your it architecture with a lot of our, um, uh, solution providers that sit within our, our, our markets access to cloud OnRamp. So you get low latency access to public cloud to start to leverage some of the technologies they have, and also have the ability to switch, right? If you start with one cloud cloud provider, and at some point you find something more cost efficient, or a little bit more architecturally, uh, built that we can, uh, uh, facilitate that switch. And then also to have connectivity to all the different network carriers that we have. And so, and, and also to do it globally, right? And so our mission is to give the CTO and the cloud architect, the ultimate Legos, uh, to build their custom solution, it's highly, um, cost effective and meets all the technology requirements. >>Yeah. Hedging that risk and having exit strategies, I think is huge. Every, every customer needs to think about that, uh, before they, they dive into the cloud. Okay, guys, we gotta leave it there. Thanks so much for coming in the cube. Great discussion. >>Thank you. Thanks for having us. >>And thank you for watching our ongoing coverage of Dell technologies, world 2022, the in-person live version where we insert great deep dive interviews like this one that focus on key customer topics. Keep it right there. You're watching the cube.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hello Rod, we are here live in Las Vegas where Amazon Web Services' AWS re:Invent 2018. It's our sixth year covering re:Invent. We've been there from the beginning, as a customer using EC2 when it first launched in 2006, one of my first start-ups. What a scene it is here. Everyone in the industry is here full on, it's a Super Bowl of technology, Amazon is leading in the cloud game, and we're breaking it down for you in theCUBE. Our next guest is Holland Barry, Senior Vice President in Cybersecurity for Cyxtera, a hot company. Welcome to theCube, thanks for joining me. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, it's great to have a senior people, start-ups, technical people on theCube. Kind of extracting, kind of squint through the volume of data that's being announced here at the show. Huge set of announcements already out the door. More coming. I'm expecting to hear a big connectivity announcement at 11:30 involving satellite and remote coverage for IoT devices, VM containers, micro VMs, all this massive amount of tech. Putting it into reality is critical. This is what customers want to do, they want to lower their costs, they want more performance, lower cost, more capability. Ushering in a true programing model for DevOps. How do you guys fit here? What's your story? Why are you here? What's the value proposition? >> So we're really focused, especially at this show around the DevOps community, and enabling agility for those folks. Ten years ago, the word DevOps and the term DevOps came to life, and there was this tug-o-war going on between the development teams and the operations team. Where development team wanting to move fast, and have all the agility. And the operations team wanted to have stability, and then all these things. They came together in a matrimony, and 10 years later we're highly automated, everything looks great from a DevOpps perspective, but what we're seeing now is security, being a bit of a speed bump. They're having a hard time catching up with that. That's our focus on the show is unleashing the DevOps folks >> and letting security move at the speed of DevOps. >> Lets drill down on security. Obvious cyber security is a global issue. It's also a national security issue in the United States, but other countries too. It's a global policy thing. There's tech involved, right? Cyber warfare all those, we hear about the news. But for a basic enterprise, the perimeter's no longer there with cloud. You got to think differently around how you're going to secure things. Amazon is now seeing security, not a blocker. Used to be no cloud implementation, it's not secure at all. Now you're hearing people saying, it's actually pretty secure, but there's more things going on keep raising the bar on capabilities that are needed. Could you share your expert opinion on, state of security of the cloud. What are the key areas? Where are they kind of leveled out? What's the baseline now? How acceptable is that? And what are the gaps, what are people working on? >> I think we're seeing a lot more security components, move into that infrastructure as code conversations. Amazon is fantastic about launching stacks, via cloud formation template, or maybe using TerraForm And now we're seeing the need for security components to move into that as an extension, of that infrastructure type deployment. That's another are of deep focus for us. >> Is there a tech trend that's a tail win for this? Is there anything helping? Or is there more headwins then tailwins? What's the big focus? >> I think one of the big trends we're seeing, and we're getting a lot of analyst conformations on this trend too is, the whole thing around software to find perimeters. So a new approach to describing access, for the users, kind of getting away from the VPN model, where you have a central concentration entry point. And then having the traverse complicated, to maintain back haul lines right? We're seeing software define perimeter, allow users and DevOps professionals access multiple environments simultaneously, without the need of these more archaic architectures if you will. >> Now the way it works braided to VP is absolutely great. Very secure malware transmission to the inpoint. >> Absolutely, I mean you think about the old style of connectivity, and you've got a user, that has nearly unfettered access wants that VPN connection isn't created. They have way more access, they have way more ability to spread malware laterally, with a VPN connection. Software to find perimeter, greatly reduces that attack surface, by giving those users only access to those items, within the perpend infrastructure, that they're vetted to have access to, and nothing more. >> So hold on, I got to ask you a question around cloud architects, the hottest area that we're seeing from an educational, learning, progressionary, knowledge seeking area, what is a cloud architect? And what are the things that make up, how would you describe and ideal cloud architecture? So I'm enterprise, I realize I've got to straighten my data center down, I'm using the cloud, lot of great things about the cloud, lot of great things about having something around perimeters of low latency. Now we've got IOT Edge, I'm going to want to power that with power, and then have connectivity now, that's over the top. How do I architect this? 'Cause data is going to live there, human computes can move around from Amazon, that's the direction that they're going. How do I lay it all out? What's your view on Cloud architect these days, and how they should be thinking? >> Well the Cloud architect role I think has evolved a lot, So start off with right? It's no longer just being an infrastructure person, you've got to be sort of an expert on security, some of an expert on networking, and a lot of storage all these other components. I think it's different, the organization, I think there's a series of best practices. I think AWS does a fantastic job of delivering templatized best practices to folks who are looking to adopt a cloud architecture. I think that's a great guide post to go by. Is the recommendations. >> How about staffing? What are you seeing in the makeup of the kind of, you know, I don't want to sound....Ninja or pirate, or whatever metaphor you want to use. You see kind of a new bread of, DevOps engineering, >> Absolutely. >> Mixed with app developer emerging. >> Yeah I think you got it, I think that matrimony that happened between the develop and the operations team has continued to evolve, and we're seeing this new kind of combined specialty. Where you've got great programming chopped, You're a python or JavaScript ninja, and you also know a lot more about the infrastructure than traditionally, your development role would of necessitated in the past. >> What are the top security conversations are you having in a DevOps environment, because there's some really great DevOps shops, and DevOps thinking in a lot of companies. And then you've got the people who're now learning DevOps they're kind of getting cloud native. They see Kubernetes around the corner. They see.. they put containers around things. I could keep my work loads on premises. Okay I got some cloud. What is some of the thinking around that? What's your view on all this? >> So I think access is a big piece, I think, you know developers needing to get to heterogeneous set of hybrid environments. They might have some legacy, or new stuff on prem. They might have a couple of clouds they're working with, how do you have a single unified policy contract that talks about how it's users can interact with it. And we're also hearing a lot about DevSecOps to moving that detection of vulnerabilities, and code imperfections earlier on in that development cycle. And we're enabling a big compliment to that, we're not DevSecOps ourselves, but we're involved in that conversation from an access perspective. >> Can't you explain what you guys do I want to get that out there because board. What do you guys actually do? How do you make money? What's your business model? What's the product? >> Yeah, so Cyxtera is a cyber security company, that also happens to have a colocation data center footprint in 29 markets. We've got 50+ data centers. We're here focused on, once of our access products called Appgte STP Appgate is a secure access solution, that was really built with developers in mind, that allows that simultaneous secure access, to a multitude of environments. So if you're a native U.S customer, and you've got 20 or 30 accounts, we can seamlessly allow that connectivity with a very robust policy structure, to allow all those developers, those users, to interact with those environments, without having to do that VPN switching that we discussed earlier. A real real clean in sophisticated way to connect your users into your internal and sensitive infrastructure. >> And what're the...who's the buyer of the product? And why are they using you guys? >> It's typically going to be the security team, sometime we'll have the networking in the cloud, infrastructure teams involved in the conversations, but this is a security product. This is secured access product. And this is really a evolution, of what people are using for the VPN, and jumpboxes and things like that for these days. >> How dead is the VP if you had to put it on a scale? One being on life support, 10 being still state of the art. I mean VP is still around, people are using VPNs a lot. >> Totally. >> There's a role for VPNs. Is it a rip and replace? Or is it more of a functional, some spots VPNs are great, some spots they're not. What's the role of VPN? >> We're seeing them, and I think Gartner has a statistic, that 60% of VPNs will be dead by 2021, or something like that. We're seeing that evolution occur. Looking simple environment, A VPN might be a really appropriate approach. But when you have cloud workloads everywhere, you got on premise data, you've got your users everywhere. It simply can't keep up. That's really the problem space part of it. >> Where's the action for security in terms of good developing trends? Is it at the network layer? Is it the virtualization layer? The identity layer? Where are you seeing, security really advancing and excelling with cloud? What specifically, where's the action happening? >> I think it's at all airs. I mean, we've seen the identity access management, identity provider market explode. We're seeing great new technologies around, container security, virtual machine security. I can't pick any one category, I just wouldn't. I would argue though, that this access category in the software to find perimeter trend, is something. We're tuned into it obviously, maybe a little more than most. But we are seeing a huge uptake. >> Well what's the alternative? I mean most IT guys, obviously they're scared. I mean they're not... They're kind of running scared. They've been doing perimeter based security for years. Firewalls, routers, all classic all lock down. Now in comes API economy, and now they're like, "Okay." I got to figure out, buy them everything in the planet to figure it out. What are they doing now? What's state of the art for people who are moving off the perimeter completely? >> I think the adoption of, more cloud native controls. A lot folks right now, are very familiar with traditional firewall vendor, and they'll tend to take that, and implement a software version of that hardware box up in the cloud. And we're not arguing that, you need to get away from something, like a next generation firewall. This traffic exception is does a lot of things, that our solution specifically doesn't do on a lot of the SDP soluntions don't. Taking that layer approach, and seeking out the solutions that are, that are cloud native. Forcing an uptech on that, and it's really changing the way people think about the architecture in their environments too. We're familiar with one thing from OnFarm We try to shoehorn that, that methodology in the cloud >> So single sign on is critical >> SSO is critical, we're seeing a huge check up on that. Absolutely. >> How do I handle the sprawl of new environments, with IOT Edgefor instance, you'll see a lot more things connect in. How do you do that? Is it manual, was there any animation or machine learning? How are you guys bringing that to scale? Because that's a big challenge we hear a lot. >> Absolutely. One of the things we're doing, at Cyxtera, is allowing you to templatize what secured access should look like for these new environments. So just like you're deploying that infrastructure as code, we're just a secured access piece of that. All the connectivity has already been described, by the security team. So back to the comment about DevOps Where operations team needing to move fast. Thinking that would deploy a brand new environment, with that access me and you >> So you're splitting up the auto building, you're standing it up quickly. >> Yeah >> All built in a preconfigured policy just goes out. >> Absolutely. Data dog, one of our reg AWS customers a great example of someone who is highly automated everything. They don't even touch our UI They use APIs for everything. They've codeified all the elements of our platform, and so when they spin up a new environment, you know they'll actually check out, a configuration from their, whatever, get hub get lab they're using. And inject that into the spin up of the new environment. Super sophisticated, high level of automation. Really at the end of the day, what's it helping them do? Why are we doing any of this? Why are we doing DevOps? We can move faster to the live product and services, quicker to our customers. >> So you guys are basically DevOps version of security, you're instrumenting everything DevO.. Data Ghost is a great example. They're instrumenting every, all the application areas. You guys are taking the sim.... Devops approach to security. Is that your approach? >> DevOps approach to security and user access, yeah, very much so. >> And what's the big conversation you're having here, at reInvent? Obviously a lot going on, what's most exciting for you here? Every event. >> I think it's everything that we just talked about, we're hearing people finally get ready for this, message you know, we're practitioners and users of this platform ourselves, and the SDP speck. I use it everyday. I flip up my laptop in the morning, I get instantly connected from anywhere to seven and 10, what we call sites right? We're familiar with the power, we're leveraging the power internally. Now seeing other people come over, what people like Data Dog and Voicebase or tour AWS clients, seeing what they've done, seeing their story, and having them say, "Hey how did they do that, we want to do that too." >> And how 'about a global scale, you guys are agnostic on geography, so they play into it. >> Completely neutral to the underlying infrastructure, the geography our solution acts the same. It doesn't matter public, private, cloud, bare metal, it's a unified policy framework that allows you to, to whatever level of granularity you want. Just grab access from the user, even including, ingredient from a third party system. For instance, I may have a developer that's assigned to a task, or a story, or an epic. Inside a Jira project for instance. Popular development tool. I can dictate, his or her access, to the infrastructure. And the projects are working on, based on an API called the Jira saying, "Okay this person has access to these things." Now I have a conditional response to, should someone have access to this resource. It's well, it depends, are they working on this project? Are they in the office? Is there a machine patched? Who are they and the identity provider? All these things should feed in to.. >> And they're automated too. They're automating in? >> This is all completely automated, and all these checks that I just described, are actually done our system, preauthentication. So you're vetted first, and then you're handed an access passport, we call Live Entitlement. And that gets you to the infrastructure, and only the infrastructure and applications you're vetted to do. Based on that evaluation that happened preautentication >> How agile are you guys when new things have to change? There's a security threat, or something on the landscape or surface area changes. How do you guys respond to it from aj Jilly standpoint? >> Yeah so, our system can take hints VN and API as well, so if you have a, you know, a threat system or something giving you signals that something might be going on. You could come into our system for instance, and revoke everyone's accces, you could prompt someone, maybe for a step up authentication, to make the reprove who they are, they got a one time password. So lot of options. We want to take hints from third party systems, we're designed that way. We can adjust, network access and program the network, based on other things that are happening. >> Final question before we wrap up here. Let get a plug in for the company. How old is the company? How many people... So how about some of your customers? Give the plug for Cyxtera. >> 1500 employees, I think I mentioned, 50+ data centers across 29 markets, hundred and hundreds of customers on the security access product that I talk about. You know, many thousands of customers in our data center. >> So business is good? >> Business is good. Yeah. In terms of like focus areas for next year, we're all in on DevOps, we're investing heavily in this area. Expect to hear more about a richer API set. More prebundled integrations, and also a bigger focus on containers. >> Well I think you guys are a great example of, success with using cloud. Lot more work to do. >> Yep. >> I mean you've got, Global, you've got all kinds of new landscapes changes. Final question, What's the one problem you saw, summarize it in a sound bite, why do people buy Cyxtera? Why do they use you? >> For network platform access for your user with a single security contract. I can't stress that. It's a huge competitive differentiation, versus some of the web application proxys that are out there. I invite everyone to dig into the details about what we provide. You can go to appgateforaws.com if you want to test dive the product. Get a feel for the admin UI, the client setup all that stuff. It's really simple and I give ya real good taste. And please come by the booth and see a demo as well. >> Tell th em Johnathan, you get a 10% discount. Only kidding. Hey, thanks for sharing your insight on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> We're here at reInvent, lot of action happening. Obviously a crowd of great people. Lot of great networking, but more importantly than industry continues to power forward, with cloud, on premise, in the world. It's cute bringing all the action her in Las Vegas. We'll be back with more after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE! Covering KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello there and welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of KubeCon 2018, the Cloud Native Compute Foundation. CNCF, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. My cohost Lauren Cooney is here with me this week. Our next two guests are from HPE Developer program. Paul Holland, Director of Open Source Program Office. And Said Syed, who is the Head of HP Developer Experience. CUBE alumni. Welcome back. Good to see you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for comin' on. >> Thank you. >> First of all, new logo. I love that, I want to get into it. HPE Developer program. We've had many conversations in the past about the relationship with Docker. The work you guys are doing inside the enterprises with cloud, multi-cloud and hybrid cloud. Why are you guys here? What's the story? What's the update from HPE? >> In December we launched this new program called the HP Community Developer Program. And that's really focused on reaching out to the developers that are out there. Whether these are DevOps developers, Cloud Native application developers, ITOps developers, who are looking to do integration with HPE infrastructure as well as our software defined platforms. It's basically evangelizing all of the good work that HP's doing in the open source program and other areas. Do you want to add something, Paul? >> Yeah, I think part of it is the recognition that HPE is a software company. After all of the separations, the divestiture with HPI and that micro-focus. We're left with really still a lot of developer power. It's the idea that as we work with developers internally and externally, we need to formalize that developer program. Both inside of open source and the general developer. Go through our API's and some of that coordination, to really make the developer work. >> I mean we're talking software defined. Everything now, you guys have been part of that. To give you guys some props, we've interviewed in the past four or five years, you guys were doing, talking micro services early on. >> Syed: That's right. >> Again the enterprise has software defined systems. >> You guys are a big part of that. So I got to ask you, the perfect storm is here. I mean Kubernetes, which is on the scene, is now, at least in my opinion, the defacto standard for interoperability around multi-cloud. This is the perfect storm for a company as big as HP with all the customers. So what is... I mean you guys must be sitting there going, perfect timing! What does it mean for you guys, Kubernetes? This is going to give you certainly a tail wind for deployments, and customer value creation. What's it mean internally for HPE? >> Well I think Kubernetes is at the heart, as you mentioned, of the open source ecosystem. It's about all of those Lego blocks now finally coming together with micro-services. And being able to put 'em together for an enterprise class workload. And given our history and expertise there I think you're right. It's a great opportunity to make sure that it works for the enterprise developer, for general developers. And how everything comes together within it, within a corporate world of development. >> Are you guys doubling down? >> Syed: Absolutely. >> What's the story internally? Is it got the charter from the top? >> That's right, yeah, we're definitely doubling down. As you mentioned, we started early on with micro services, with our partnership at Docker. We have a great relationship with Mesosphere. And we're full on with Kubernetes. You know we have a product that we're actually demoing here on the show floor, called HPE OneSphere. We launched the product in December of last year. And one of the things it actually does, it enables Kubernetes' cluster management on-prem and off-prem. For example in AWS. Deployment, management, all of those things. We are full on. We also have open source projects in the Kubernetes landscape. It's called Project Dory. That enables persistent storage. It's actually contributed by our Nimble big business unit. We're very focused on enabling our developers. Things that enable them is things like, how can I automatically deploy applications? And so on. Using Kubernetes cluster or Kubernetes environment. Working with Paul and others that's exactly what we're focused on. >> What are some of the user cases that you guys are seeing? As you mentioned some of those deployments. Is it really existing integration within HP Solutions? Like OneSphere? And OneSphere's obviously going to be a nice paint a glass and look at the platform of what the cloud offers. Is it Edge? Is it IoT? I mean what are some of the user cases? >> I think it's all of the above. I think what we're seeing is legacy enterprises having all of these legacy applications that they need to migrate this new world. At the same time they're struggling with, how do then I make hybrid? How do I then go to the Edge? And so across the board, I think that's the power of going back to your original question about HPE. Is we've seen all of that in the enterprise. And can we put those proprietary componentry into the products? Like a OneSphere on top of open source components. The reason we're here at Kubernetes, as an example, is to really highlight to developers that if you really want to bring things together. We can help you do that. Whether it be legacy applications, new application, greenfield applications. All within this again Lego block type environment, within Kubernetes and these other open source platforms. >> I mean you guys also again on the composable infrastructure kind of story. It's kind of here, right? >> That's right. Again we started down this journey three, four years ago with Docker. And several others. We built this unified ecosystem. A composable ecosystem. And in the ecosystem I think there's now like 40 some partners. But that's growing. If you look at it from a layered cake point of view. The infrastructure is here. That problem has been solved for a long time. You have infrastructure management. With one view, with our composable API's. Working with components like Docker, and Mesosphere, and Redfish, and other open source products and services, on top of that with OneSphere as the multi-cloud/hybrid cloud management platform, again using the power of our API's. And then integrating north bound with these hybrid multi-cloud management environments, as well as south bound with infrastructure management. Now you have the overall story. We're really exploiting the power of API's. And enabling our developers internally, as well as developers outside of HPE, To come together and start to think about this new idea. Is there a solution for that? Absolutely, there's an app for it. And then the way you build that app is build that API integration. >> You talked about an app store that you guys are working on. It has about 40 different partners in it. What about users of the solutions that are in there? Are you seeing an uptick in that? And what are you seeing in terms of that and what are they using? >> Yeah so I'll give you a quick example. We launched the developer community program in December. We launched the portal in December. And in the past two and a half months, we have seen a significant uptick and actually just people comin' in and hanging out on the portal. I think we are up to about 30,000 unique, unique views of our page. Most people are spending three to four minutes, which is a lot in today's terms. Someone who is going there, reading our content. And then on top of that actually consumer-ship of our projects. Grommet for example is one of our open source projects that HP funds. It's a UX front end. I think it has more than 10,000 people that are following it, and using it. Companies like Netflix, for example, use Grommet as a UX. Most of our SDCG is off our defined applications are now using Grommet. So OneSphere, One View. That's our de facto standard. But it's open source, anyone can use it. >> Are you finding, HP is traditionally been kind of a company that does a lot of things internally. Are you guys opening up for the first time? With allowing your developers to build things that will be put into open source? Can you talk a little bit about that? >> The power of HP is we've had a rich collaboration history for a long, long time. And I think you alluded to it before. From an enterprise perspective, how can we make that easy? Not only for our own internal developers. And maybe this is where this question comes from from an internal perspective. Even ten, 15 years ago with Martin Fink, at the helm of the open source group. And then ultimately as the CTO. And things have shifted through the separations. How do you leverage that power of openness, collaboration, that's in their DNA? And really empowering them to share. How do we take concepts like inner sourcing, which is the open sourcing of activities inside a company, And really start develop those habits and capabilities. Whether or not it's external is just a flip of the switch. But developers know how to contribute. They're also learning best of breed skills. And developing their own career over time. >> Cooney: That is great to hear. >> And enabling that for other enterprises as well. Which is really where a lot of our customers come to us and say, hey you're an enterprise with lots and lots of developers. How do I get that same power with mine? And you kind of walk them through the journey. >> It's interesting, I'd love to get your thoughts on this. I think you guys are doing... First of all I love the new logo. I think it's really important everyone knows you guys have a very active and open source community. And have been on this. This is not a new thing, revelation within HP. But Intel has the same challenge. They're tryna move away from that Intel Inside. You guys are known to a lot of people as a hardware company. You got HP.com is now the printer and the peripheral side. But it's a cloud game. You're still selling servers but people are still buying servers. The cloud providers need servers. They need it. But the software is the key, the software defined infrastructure is now that glue layer. Service meshes are hot. You're seeing SDO's got massive traction. Everything's pointing to this new level of services at scale. >> That's right. >> I want to get your thoughts on the HP story there. Can you take a minute to explain what you guys are doing with that vision? Because Cloud Native isn't just about the cloud. There's a lot of on-prem activity that's moving to a cloud operating model. So it's not a full public cloud. What's your story? >> If you look at the overall strategy. We make hybrid IT simple, recognizing that it's all those different flavors. We have to enable the software capabilities because the world is software enabled. You have all those componentries working together seamlessly and automated. And then we have the services groups to make it happen. With the Pointnext, and the acquisitions of cloud technology partners in the new areas. We have a wide variety of a portfolio of services that are now enabled. And experts to actually go help customers do it. And so we have the capability legacy. We also have the capability of the new generation of IT. And everywhere in between. And then you talk about the Edge. And so with our acquisition Aruba, which it seems like a long time ago. It's just a few years. They've been an integral part of taking that from a data center all the way to the edge and in between. I think we've got those multiple layers of hybrid IT. We have the software enabled activities, which definitely includes open source. Because you can't be software enabled without software and open source. And then from a service perspective, the wealth, depth of bench, in terms of... >> And OneSphere's the key product that, for you guys, that connects all this. Is that kind of where the momentum is? >> Holland: It's one of them. >> One of them, okay. >> And then if you look at some of the acquisitions we have made. CTP, for example, or Cloud Cruiser, for example. These are all helping us build our portfolio of rich services that enable customers to go from a pure on-prem, pure hardware focus company. To now a new age Cloud Native, or hybrid cloud sort of company, where, we have the experience. Now, we have the experience with all of these different acquisitions like CTP, to enable them to have a full hybrid cloud of micro plus macro services kind of migration capabilities. >> What are you guys offering developers? Not that I'm going to ask you for the pitch. Cause everyone, the developers are getting a lot of pitches, if you will. People say I got to own the developer. They don't want to be owned. They want to be collaborative. But they're closer to the front lines than ever, these developers. And they're really looking at business problems. It's not just, here's the specs go code it. They're on the front lines. Right at the point of engagement for the business logic, and the business models of a lot of these applications. What do you guys bring to the table for the developers? Is it marketplace? Is it distribution? Is it opportunity? What is the value proposition that you guys are talking to developers about, specifically? >> I think it's all three. We really start with internal, right? We are aligning our internal developers to really consume our own champagne. Drink your own champagne. So what does that mean? Can you use OneSphere to develop OneSphere? Absolutely. Our mentality is, our OneSphere developers, in fact a couple of our distinguished technologists are here. So more customer focused. Do your development on your own products, on your own products. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> So that's number one, right? If they go through the pains of developing on our own products. They will know exactly which areas to focus on. And so that's one thing we are really enabling our developers to do. Is really think outside in, versus inside out. Gone are the days of, we will build it and they will come. No they won't. You have to really give them what they are going to consume. So from a strategy perspective, we're really exposing our developers to the outside world. Hey go out there. Talk to them. Learn what they're looking for. Right, so that's number one. Number two. With the developer community program, and the developer portal, and the open source program. Now that we're collaborating across HPE, at the top end and the bottom end. We're not really able to think about how we use the power of our API's, from layer 1 infrastructure all the way up to layer 7. Or Layer 5 and above. And say, "Alright how do we enable these guys to build value add that really solves their problem?" Whether it's DevOps problems. CI/CD? Whether it deploying applications, managing, monitoring applications. It's all through the power of API. If you can automate it, orchestrate it and manage it. Then we have really solved your problems. This is why we're not only going after and enabling the developers by giving them what they need. We're also partnering with key partners in our ecosystem that actually brings the best of breed. And that's what the customers are used to using today. >> And you guys had it more up to stack. Certainly the application level is a key point. What about the channel opportunity? Cause I'm seeing, and I've been talking about this on theCUBE lately, is developers are the new sales channel, because in the old days VAR's, and ISV's and channel partners would bring solutions. And you guys had a great channel, have a great channel that brings solutions to customers. Now these customers are having programming and developing done from the partners. You guys have to create that. Are you guys looking at that as a significant opportunity, with this program? >> In today's world you have to think about things in a different way. With the advent of DevOps. With the developers no longer in their cubes, not touching production, they're releasing the production daily. Or multiple times per day. And so we're lookin', or have looked with that with, how do the developer work. And get that all the way to production. At the same time, what's the skill sets to work with in the open? Are you talking about the channel? The open source community is a great channel. Not only for ideas and conversations, but also to meet people. Not only are we there. >> Furrier: Your buyers are there. >> Yeah exactly. We're releasing the customers. But customers is part of our community. Vendors are part of our community. Partners are part of our community. And together we're building a community of developers that are doing work that ultimately goes to production multiple times per year. >> When you guys get this right, I think the gains will be huge. >> Well I'll give you an example. One of the largest web companies in the world. We're partnering with them. They're a huge customer of ours. Instead of selling to their frontline, we went and started talking to their developers. And their developer leaderships. To the point where we are working on doing hackathons. So our developers, their developers, in the same conference room, solving joint problems together. >> Cooney: So co-development. >> Co-developing, exactly. We call it a hackathon. But yeah, co-developing, absolutely. That's where we're focused. Because today developers and the line of businesses have more and more and more influence on key technology decisions. That's where the money is. >> Being genuine and authentic in these communities is certainly a great, successful formula. You guys, see that. We'll be following your progress. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and sharing the update. And congratulations on the new program. And the new logo. I'd love to get a shirt when you get a chance. >> Absolutely, yeah. >> Congratulations, great to see you. Thanks for comin' on. We are here at KubeCon 2018 in Europe. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. We'll be back with more live coverage after this short break.

>>I want to welcome back to the cubes coverage. We're here at another event in person I'm John furrier, host of the cube. We've got to CNCF coop con cloud native con for in-person 2021. And we're back. It's a hybrid event and we're streaming lives on all channels, as well as all the folks watching a great guest kicking off the show here from the co-chairs from cataract coast. Is that right? Danielle Cook. Who's the vice president at Fairwinds and John Foreman director at Accenture. Thanks for coming on your co-chair. Your third co-chair is not here, but you guys are here to talk about the cloud maturity model. Pretty mature funding is flowing tons of announcements. We're going to have a startup on $200 million. They're announcing in funding and observability of all of all hot spaces. Um, so the maturity is it's the journey in the cloud native space now is crossed over to mainstream. That's the we've been telling that story for a couple of years. Now, you guys have been working on this. Tell us about the cloud maturity model you guys worked on. >>So we got together earlier this year because we, um, four of us had been working on maturity models. So Simon Forester, who is one of the co-chairs, who isn't here, he had worked on a maturity model that looked at your legacy journey, all the way to cloud native, um, myself, I had been part of the Fairwinds team working on the Kubernetes maturity model. So, and then, um, we have Robbie, who's not here. And John Foreman, who we all got together, they had worked on a maturity model and we put it together and I've been working since February to go, what is cloud native maturity and what are the stages you need to go through to achieve maturity. So put this together and now we have this great model that people can use to take them from. I have no idea what cloud native is to the steps they can take to actually be a mature organization. >>And, you know, you've made it when you have a book here. So just hold that up to the camera real quick. So you can see it. It's very much in spirit of the community, but in all seriousness, it book's great, but this is a real need. What was the pain point? What was jumping out at you guys on the problem? Was it just where people like trying to get more cloud native, they want to go move faster. It was a confusing, what were the problems you solve in? >>Well, and if anything is, if we start at the beginning, right, there was during the cloud journey DevSecOps and the Kootenays being a thing that then there's journeys to DevSecOps tributaries as well. But everything is leading to cloud native. It's about the journey to cloud native. So everybody, you know, we're taught to go John, the ecosystem's an eyesore man. If I look at, you know, landscape, >>The whole map I >>Need, it's just like in trend map, it's just so confusing what we do. So every time we go to, I revert the wheel and I get them from zero to hero. So we just put together a model instead that we can re reuse yeah. As a good reference architecture. So from that is a primary, how we built because the native trademark you have with us today. So it's a five scale model from one to five what's twice today, or how to, to, you know, what our job is getting to a five where they could optimize a really rocket rolling. >>You know, it's interesting. I love these inflection points and, you know, being a student of history and the tech business there's moments where things are the new thing, and they're really truly new things like first-time operationalized dev ops. I mean the hardcore dev ops or early adopters we've been doing that, you know, we know that, but now mainstream, like, okay, this is a real disruption in a positive way. So the transformation is happening and it's new, new roles, new, new workflows, new, uh, team formations. So there's a, it's complicated in the sense of getting it up and running so I can see the need. How can you guys share your data on where people are? Because now you have more data coming in, you have more people doing dev ops, more cloud native development, and you mentioned security shepherds shifting left. Where's the data tell you, is it, as you said, people are more like a two or more. What's the, what's the data say? >>So we've had, so part of pulling this model together was your experience at Accenture, helping clients, the Fairwinds, um, experience, helping people manage Kubernetes. And so it's from out dozens of clusters that people have managed going, okay, where are people? And they don't even know where they are. So if we provide the guidelines from them, they can read it and go, oh, I am at about two. So the data is actually anecdotal from our experiences at our different companies. Um, but we, you know, we we've made it so that you can self identify, but we've also recognized that you might be at stage two for one application, but five for another application. So just because you're on this journey, doesn't mean everything is in, >>It's not boiler plate. It's really unique to every enterprise because they everyone's different >>Journey. Put you in journey with these things. A big part of this also torn apart one to five, your clients wants to in denial, you know? So, so Mr. CX level, you are level two. We are not, there's no way we would deal with this stuff for years. You've got to be a five. No, sorry. You're too. >>So >>There's use denial also about this. People think they do a cloud-native director rolling, and I'm looking at what they're doing and go, okay, do you do workups security? And they go, what's that? I go, exactly. So we really need to peel back the onion, start from seed year out and we need to be >>All right. So I want to ask more about the, um, the process and how that relates to the themes are involved. What are some of the themes around the maturity model that you guys can share that you see that people can look at and say, how do I self identify? What's the process will come to expect? >>Well, one of the things we did when we were putting it together was we realized that there were themes coming out amongst the maturity model itself. So we realized there's a whole people layer. There's a whole policy layer process and technology. So this maturity model does not just look at, Hey, this is the tech you need to do. It looks at how you introduce cloud native to your organization. How do you take the people along with it? What policies you need to put in place the process. So we did that first and foremost, but one of the things that was super important to all of us was that security was ever present throughout it. Because as everything is shifting left, you need to be looking at security from day one and considering how it's going to happen and roll out from your developers all the way to your compliance people. Um, it's super important. And one of the themes throughout. >>So, so it would be safe to say, then that security was a catalyst for the maturity models because you gotta be mature. I mean, security, you don't fool around security. >>About the last year when I created the program for, since I worked with Cheryl Holland, from CCF, we put together the community certification, her special program. I saw a need where security was a big gap in communities. Nobody knew anything about it. They wanted to use the old rack and stack ways of doing it. They wanted to use their tray micro tombs from yesteryear, and that doesn't work anymore. You need a new set of tools for Kubernetes. It's the upgrade system. It's different way of doing things. So that knowledge is critical. So I think you're part of this again, on this journey was getting certifications out there for people to understand how to do better. Now, the next phase of that now it's how do we put all these pieces together and built this roadmap? >>Well, it's a great group. You guys have the working groups hard to pronounce the name, but, uh, it's a great effort because one of the things I'm hearing and we've been reporting this one, the Cubans looking angle is the modern software developers want speed, and they don't want to wait for the old slow groups now and security, and it are viewed as blockers and like slow things down. And so you start to see a trend where those groups could provide policy and then start putting, feeding up, uh, data models that allow the developers in real time to do their coding, to shift left and to be efficient and move on and code not be waiting for weeks or days >>Comes to play. So today is the age of Caleb's right now, get up this emerging we're only to have now where everything is code policies, code, securities, code policies, cookie figures, code. That is the place for, and then again, walk a fusion more need for a cargo office. >>Okay. What's your thoughts on that? >>So I think what's really important is enabling service ownership, right? You need the developers to be able to do security, see policy, see it live and make sure that, you know, you're not your configuration, isn't stopping the build or getting into production. So, you know, we made sure that was part of the maturity model. Like you need to be looking continuous scanning throughout checking security checking policy. What is your process? Um, and we, you know, we made that ever present so that the developers are the ones who are making sure that you're getting to Kubernetes, you're getting to cloud native and you're doing it. >>Well, the folks watching, if you don't know the cloud native landscape slide, that ecosystem slide, it's getting bigger and bigger. There's more new things emerging. You see role of software abstractions coming in, automation and AI are coming in. So it makes it very challenging if you want to jump right in lifting and shifting to the clouds, really easy check, been there, done that, but companies want to refactor their applications, not just replatform refactoring means completely taking advantage of these higher level services. So, so it's going to be hard to navigate. So I guess with all that being said, what you guys advice to people who are saying, I need the navigation. I need to have the blueprint. What do I do? How do I get involved? And how do I leverage this? >>We want people to, you can go on to get hub and check out our group and read the maturity model. You can understand it, self identify where you're at, but we want people to get involved as well. So if they're seeing something that like, actually this needs to be adjusted slightly, please join the group. The cardiograph is group. Um, you can also get copies of our book available on the show. So if you, um, if you know, you can read it and it takes you line by line in a really playful way as to where you should be at in the maturity model. >>And on top of that, if you come Thursday was Sonia book. And of course, a lot of money, one day, I promise >>You guys are good. I gotta ask, you know, the final question is like more and more, just more personal commentary. If you don't mind, as teams start to change, this is obviously causing a lot of positive transformation if done, right? So the roles and the teams are starting to change. Hearing SRS are now not just the dev ops guys provisioning they're part of the, of the scale piece, the developers shifting left, new kind of workflows, the role of certain engineers and developers now, new team formations. Why were you guys seeing that evolve? Is there any trends that you see around how people are reconfiguring their team makeup? >>I think a lot of things is going to a single panic last tonight, where I'm taking dev and ops and putting them one panel where I can see everything going on in my environment, which is very critical. So right now we're seeing a pre-training where every client wants to be able to have the holy grail of a secret credit class to drive to that. But for you to get there, there's a lot of work you've got to do overnight that will not happen. And that's where this maturity model, I think again, will enhance that ability to do that. >>There's a cultural shift happening. I mean, people are changing there's new skillsets and you know, obviously there's a lot of people who don't have the skill. So it's super important that people work with Kubernetes, get certified, use the maturity model to help them know what skills they need. >>And it's a living document too. It's not, I mean, a book and I was living book. It's going to evolve. Uh, what areas you think are going to come next? So you guys have to predict if you had to see kind of where the pieces are going. Uh, obviously with cloud, everything's getting, you know, more Lego blocks to play with more coolness you have in the, in this world. What's coming next with Sue. Do you guys see any, any, uh, forecasts or >>We're working with each one of the tag groups within the CNCF to help us build it out and come up with what is next based on their expertise in the area. So we'll see lots more coming. Um, and we hope that the maturity grows and because of something that everybody relies on and that they can use alongside the landscape and the trail map. And, um, >>It's super valuable. I think you guys need a plug for any people want to, how they join. If I want to get involved, how do I, what do I do? >>Um, you can join the Carter Garfish group. You can check us out on, get hub and see all the information there. Um, we have a slack channel within the CNCF and we have calls every other Tuesday that people can see the pools. >>Awesome. Congratulations, we'll need it. And super important as people want to navigate and start building out, you know, you've got to edge right around the corner there it's happening real fast. Data's at the edge. You got cloud at the edge. Azure, AWS, Google. I mean, they're pushing really hardcore 5g, lot changes. >>Everybody wants to cloud today. Now one client is, one is more cloud. At least both the cloud is comfortable playing everywhere. One pump wife had DevOps. >>It's distributed computing back in the modern era. Thank you so much for coming on the keep appreciating. Okay. I'm Jennifer here for cube con cloud native con 2021 in person. It's a hybrid event. We're here live on the floor show floor, bringing you all the coverage. Thanks for watching station all day. Next three days here in Los Angeles. Thanks for watching. >>Thank you.

>>Um, Jamie Sharath with Liga data, I'm primarily on the delivery side of the house, but I also support our new business teams. I'd like to spend a minute really just kind of telling you about, uh, uh, legal data where basically a Silicon valley startup, uh, started in 2014 and, uh, our lead iron, our executive team, basically where the data officers at Yahoo before this, uh, we provide managed data services and we provide products that are focused on telcos. So we have some experience in non telco industry, but our focus for the last seven years or so is specifically on telco. So again, something over 200 employees, we have a global presence in north America, middle east Africa, Asia, and Europe. And we have folks in all of those places. Uh, I'd like to call your attention to the, uh, the middle really of the screen there. >>So here is where we have done some partnership with Cloudera. So if you look at that, you can see we're in Holland and, uh, Jamaica, and then a lot to throughout Africa as well. Now the data fabric is the product that we're talking about. And the data fabric is basically a big data type of data warehouse with a lot of additional functionality involved. The data fabric is comprised of, uh, some something called flare, which we'll talk about admitted below there, and then the Cloudera data platform underneath. So this is how we're partnering together. We, uh, we, we have this tool and it's, uh, it's functioning and delivering in something over and up. Oops. So flare now, flare is a piece of that. It's legal data IP. The rest is Cloudera. And what flare does is that basically pulls in data and integrates it to an event streaming, uh, platform. >>It, uh, it is the engine behind the data fabric. Uh, it's also a decisioning platform. So in real time, we're able to pull in data. We're able to run analytics on it and we're able to alert our, do whatever is needed in a real-time basis. Of course, a lot of clients at this point are still sending data in batch. So it handles that as well, but we call that a cut off picture Sanchez. Now Sacho is a very interesting app. It's an AI analytics app for executives. What it is is it runs on your mobile phone. It ties into your data. Now this could be the data fabric, but it couldn't be a standalone product. And basically it allows you to ask, you know, human type questions to say, how are my gross ads last week? How are they comparing against same time last week before that? >>And even the same time 60 days ago. So as an executive or as an analyst, I can pull it up and I can look at it instantly in a meeting or anywhere else without having to think about queries or anything like that. So that's pretty much for us legal data. Now, it really does set the context of where we are. So this is a traditional telco environment. So you see the systems of record and you see the cloud, you see OSS and BSS day. So one of the things that the next step above which calls we call the system of intelligence of the data fabric does, is it mergers that BSS and OSS data. So the longer we have any silos or anything that's separated, it's all coming into one area to allow business, to go in or allow data scientists go in and do that. >>So if you look at the bottom line, excuse me, of the, uh, of the system of intelligence, you can see that flare is the tool that pulls in the data. So it provides even screening capabilities, it preserves entity states, so that you can go back and look at it to the state at any time. It does stream analytics that is as the data is coming in, it can perform analytics on it. And it also allows real-time decisioning. So that's something that, uh, that's something that business users can go in and create a system of, uh, if them's, it looks very much like a graph database where you can create a product that will allow the user to be notified if a certain condition happens. So for instance, a bundle, so a real-time offer or user is fixing to run out of is ongoing and an offer can be sent to him right on the fly. >>And that's set up by the business user as opposed to programmers a data infrastructure. So the fabric has really three areas. That data is persistent, obviously there's the data lake. So the data lake stores that level of granularity that is very deep years and years of history, data scientists love that. And, uh, you know, for a historical record keeping and requirements from the government, that data would be stored there. Then there's also something we call the business semantics layer and the business semantics layer contains something over 650 specific telco KPIs. These are initially from PM forum, but they also are included in, uh, various, uh, uh, mobile operators that we've delivered at. And we've, we've grown that. So that's there for business. The data lake is there for data scientists, analytical stores, uh, they can be used for many different reasons. There are a lot of times RDBMS is, are still there. >>So these, this, this basically platform, this cloud they're a platform can tie into analytical data stores as well via flair access and reporting. So graphic visualizations, API APIs are a very key part of it. A third-party query tools, any kind of grid jewels can be used. And those are the, of course, the, uh, the ones that are highly optimized and allow, you know, search of billions of records. And then if you look at the top, it's the systems of engagement, then you might vote this use cases. So telco reporting, hundreds of KPIs that are, that are generated for users, segmentation, basically micro to macro segmentation, segmentation will play a key role in a use case. We talk about in a minute monetizations. So this helps telco providers monetize their specific data, but monetize it in, okay, how to do they make money off of it, but also how might you leverage this data to, in, in dates with another client? >>So for instance, in some cases where it's allowed a DPI is used and the, uh, fabric tracks exactly where each person goes each, uh, we call it a subscriber, goes within his, uh, um, uh, internet browsing for 5g and, uh, all that data is stored. Uh, whereas you can tell a lot of things where the segment, the profile that's being used and, you know, what are they propensity to buy? Did they spend a lot of time on the Coca-Cola page? There are buyers out there that find that information very valuable, and then there's sideshow. And we spoke briefly about Sacha before that sits on top of the fabric or it's it's alone. >>So, so the story really that we want to tell is, is one, this is, this is one case out of it. This is a CVM type of case. So there was a mobile operator out there that was really offering, you know, packages, whether it's a bundle or whether it's a particular tool to subscribers, they, they were offering kind of an abroad approach that it was not very focused. It was not depending on the segments that were created around the profiling earlier, uh, the subscriber usage was somewhat dated and this was causing a lot of those. Uh, a lot of those offers to be just basically not taken and not, not, uh, uh, there was limited segmentation capabilities really before the, uh, before the, uh, fabric came in. Now, one of the key things about the fabric is when you start building segments, you can build that history. >>So all of that data stored in the data lake can be used in terms of segmentation. So what did we do about that? The, the, the MDNO, the challenge, uh, we basically put the data fabric in and the data fabric was running Cloudera data platform and that, uh, and that's how we team up. Uh, we facilitated the ability to personalize campaign. So what that means is, uh, the segments that were built and that user fell within that segment, we knew exactly what his behavior most likely was. So those recommendations, those offers could be created then, and we enable this in real time. So real-time ability to even go out to the CRM system, again, their further information about that, all of these tools, again, we're running on top of the cloud data platform, uh, what was the outcome? Willie, uh, outcome was that there was a much more precise offer given to the client that is, that was accepted, you know, increase in cross sell and upsell subscriber retention. >>Uh, our clients came back to us and pointed out that, uh, it was 183% year on year revenue increase. Uh, so this is a, this is probably one of the key use cases. Now, one thing to really mention is there are hundreds and hundreds of use cases running on the fabric. And, uh, I would even say thousands. A lot of those have been migrated. So when the fabric is deployed, when they bring the, uh, Cloudera and the legal data solution in there's generally a legacy system that has many use cases. So many of those were, were migrated virtually all of them in pen, on put on the cloud. Uh, another issue is that new use cases are enabled again. So when you get this level of granularity and when you have campaigns that can now base their offers on years of history, as opposed to 30 days of history, the campaigns campaign management response systems, uh, are, are, uh, are enabled quite a bit to do all, uh, to be precise in their offers. Yeah. >>Okay. So this is a technical slide. Uh, one of the things that we normally do when we're, when we're out there talking to folks, is we talk and give an overview and that last little while, and then we give a deep technical dive on all aspects of it. So sometimes that deep dive can go a couple of hours. I'm going to do this slide and a couple of minutes. So if you look at it, you can see over on the left, this is the, uh, the sources of the data. And they go through this tool called flare that runs on the cloud. They're a data platform, uh, that can either be via cues or real-time cues, or it can be via a landing zone, or it can be a data extraction. You can take a look at the data quality that's there. So those are built in one of the things that flare does is it has out of the box ability to ingest data sources and to apply the data quality and validation for telco type sources. >>But one of the reasons this is fast to market is because throughout those 10 or 12 opcos that we've done with Cloudera, where we have already built models, so models for CCN, for air for, for most mediation systems. So there's not going to be a type of, uh, input that we haven't already seen are very rarely. So that actually speeds up deployment very quickly. Then a player does the transformation, the, uh, the metrics, continuous learning, we call it continuous decisioning, uh, API access. Uh, we, uh, you know, for, for faster response, we use distributed cash. I'm not going to go too deeply in there, but the layer and the business semantics layer again, are, are sitting top of the Cloudera data platform. You see the cough, but flu, uh, Q1 on the right as well. >>And all of that, we're calling the fabric. So the fabric is Cloudera data platform and the cloud and flair and all of this runs together. And by the way, there've been many, many, many, many hundreds of hours testing flare with Cloudera and, uh, and the whole process, the results, what are the results? Well, uh, there are, there are four I'm going to talk about, uh, we saw the one for the, it was called my pocket pocket, but it's a CDM type, uh, use case. Uh, the subscribers of that mobile operator were 14 million plus there was a use case for a 24 million plus a year on year revenue was 130%, uh, 32 million plus for 38%. These are, um, these are different CVM pipe, uh, use cases, as well as network use cases. And then there were 44%, uh, telco with 76 million subscribers. So I think that there are a lot more use cases that we could talk about, but, but in this case, this is the ones we're looking at again, 183%. This is something that we find consistently, and these figures come from our, uh, our actual end client. So how do we unlock the full potential of this? Well, I think to start is to arrange a meeting and, uh, it would be great to, to, uh, for you to reach out to me or to Anthony. Uh, we're working in conjunction on this and we can set up a, uh, we can set up a meeting and we can go through this initial meeting. And, uh, I think that's the very beginning. Uh, again, you can get additional information from Cloudera website and from the league of data website, Anthony, that's the story. Thank you. >>Oh, that's great. Jeremy, thank you so much. It's a, it's, it's wonderful to go deep. And I know that there are hundreds of use cases being deployed in MTN, um, but great to go deep on one. And like you said, it can, once you get that sort of architecture in place, you can do so many different things. The power of data is tremendous, but it's great to be able to see how you can, how you can track it end to end from collecting the data, processing it, understanding it, and then applying it in a commercial context and bringing actual revenue back into the business. So there is your ROI straightaway. Now you've got a platform that you can transform your business on. That's, that's, it's a tremendous story, Jimmy, and thank you for your partnership. So, um, that's, uh, that's, that's our story for today, like Jamie says, um, please do fleet, uh, feel free to reach out to us. Um, the, the website addresses are there and our contact details, and we'd be delighted to talk to you a little bit more about some of the other use cases, perhaps, um, and maybe about your own business and, uh, and how we might be able to make it, make it perform a little better.

>>Hi today, I'm going to talk about network analytics and what that means for, for telecommunications as we go forward. Um, thinking about, uh, 5g, what the impact that's likely to have on, on network analytics and the data requirement, not just to run the network and to understand the network a little bit better. Um, but also to, to inform the rest of the operation of the telecommunications business. Um, so as we think about where we are in terms of network analytics and what that is over the last 20 years, the telecommunications industry has evolved its management infrastructure, uh, to abstract away from some of the specific technologies in the network. So what do we mean by that? Well, uh, in the, in the initial, uh, telecommunications networks were designed, there were management systems that were built in, um, eventually fault management systems, uh, assurance systems, provisioning systems, and so on were abstracted away. >>So it didn't matter what network technology had, whether it was a Nokia technology or Erickson technology or Huawei technology or whatever it happened to be. You could just look at your fault management system, understand where false, what happened as we got into the last sort of 10, 15 years or so. Telecommunication service providers become became more sophisticated in terms of their approach to data analytics and specifically network analytics, and started asking questions about why and what if in relation to their network performance and network behavior. And so network analytics as a, as a bit of an independent function was born and over time, more and more data began to get loaded into the network analytics function. So today just about every carrier in the world has a network analytics function that deals with vast quantities of data in big data environments that are now being migrated to the cloud. >>As all telecommunications carriers are migrating as many it workloads as possible, um, to the cloud. So what are the things that are happening as we migrate to the cloud that drive, uh, uh, enhancements in use cases and enhancements and scale, uh, in telecommunications network analytics? Well, 5g is the big thing, right? So 5g, uh, it's not just another G in that sense. I mean, in some cases, in some senses, it is 5g means greater bandwidth, lower latency and all those good things. So, you know, we can watch YouTube videos with less interference and, and less sluggish bandwidth and so on and so forth. But 5g is really about the enterprise and enterprise services. Transformation, 5g is more secure, kind of a network, but 5g is also a more pervasive network 5g, a fundamentally different network topology than previous generations. So there's going to be more masts and that means that you can have more pervasive connectivity. >>Uh, so things like IOT and edge applications, autonomous cars, smart cities, these kinds of things, um, are all much better served because you've got more masks that of course means that you're going to have a lot more data as well. And we'll get to that. The second piece is immersive digital services. So with more masks, with more connectivity, with lower latency with higher man, the potential, uh, is, is, is, is immense for services innovation. And we don't know what those services are going to be. We know that technologies like augmented reality, virtual reality, things like this have great potential. Um, but we, we have yet to see where those commercial applications are going to be, but the innovation and the innovation potential for 5g is phenomenal. Um, it certainly means that we're going to have a lot more, uh, edge devices, um, uh, and that again is going to lead to an increase in the amount of data that we have available. >>And then the idea of pervasive connectivity when it comes to smart, smart cities, uh, autonomous, autonomous currents, um, uh, integrated traffic management systems, um, all of this kind of stuff, those of those kind of smart environments thrive where you've got this kind of pervasive connectivity, this persistent, uh, connection to the network. Um, again, that's going to drive, um, um, uh, more innovation. And again, because you've got these new connected devices, you're going to get even more data. So this rise, this exponential rise in data is really what's driving the change in, in network analytics. And there are four major vectors that are driving this increase in data in terms of both volume and in terms of speed. So the first is more physical elements. So we said already that 5g networks are going to have a different apology. 5g networks will have more devices, more and more masks. >>Um, and so with more physical elements in the network, you're going to get more physical data coming off those physical networks. And so that needs to be aggregated and collected and managed and stored and analyzed and understood when, so that we can, um, have a better understanding as to why things happened the way they do, why the network behaves in which they do in, in, in, in ways that it does and why devices that are connected to the network. And ultimately of course, consumers, whether they be enterprises or retail customers, um, behave in the way they do in relation to their interaction within our edge nodes and devices, we're going to have a, uh, an explosion in terms of the number of devices. We've already seen IOT devices with your different kinds of trackers and, uh, and, and sensors that are hanging off the edge of the network, whether it's to make buildings smarter car smarter, or people smarter, um, in, in terms of having the, the, the measurements and the connectivity and all that sort of stuff. >>So the numbers of devices on the agent beyond the age, um, are going to be phenomenal. One of the things that we've been trying to with as an industry over the last few years is where does the telco network end, and where does the enterprise, or even the consumer network begin. You used to be very clear that, you know, the telco network ended at the router. Um, but now it's not, it's not that clear anymore because in the enterprise space, particularly with virtualized networking, which we're going to talk about in a second, um, you start to see end to end network services being deployed. Um, uh, and so are they being those services in some instances are being managed by the service provider themselves, and in some cases by the enterprise client, um, again, the line between where the telco network ends and where the enterprise or the consumer network begins, uh, is not clear. >>Uh, so, so those edge, the, the, the proliferation of devices at the age, um, uh, in terms of, um, you know, what those devices are, what the data yield is and what the policies are, their need to govern those devices, um, in terms of security and privacy, things like that, um, that's all going to be really, really important virtualized services. We just touched on that briefly. One of the big, big trends that's happening right now is not just the shift of it operations onto the cloud, but the shift of the network onto the cloud, the virtualization of network infrastructure, and that has two major impacts. First of all, it means that you've got the agility and all of the scale, um, uh, benefits that you get from migrating workloads to the cloud, the elasticity and the growth and all that sort of stuff. But arguably more importantly for the telco, it means that with a virtualized network infrastructure, you can offer entire networks to enterprise clients. >>So if you're selling to a government department, for example, is looking to stand up a system for certification of, of, you know, export certification, something like that. Um, you can not just sell them the connectivity, but you can sell them the networking and the infrastructure in order to serve that entire end to end application. You could sentence, you could offer them in theory, an entire end-to-end communications network, um, and with 5g network slicing, they can even have their own little piece of the 5g bandwidth that's been allocated against the carrier, um, uh, and, and have a complete end to end environment. So the kinds of services that can be offered by telcos, um, given virtualize network infrastructure, uh, are, are many and varied. And it's a, it's a, it's a, um, uh, an outstanding opportunity. But what it also means is that the number of network elements virtualized in this case is also exploding. >>That means the amount of data that we're getting on, uh, informing us as to how those network elements are behaving, how they're performing, um, uh, is, is, is going to go up as well. And then finally, AI complexity. So on the demand side, um, while historically, uh, um, network analytics, big data, uh, has been, has been driven by, um, returns in terms of data monetization, uh, whether that's through cost avoidance, um, or service assurance, uh, or even revenue generation through data monetization and things like that. AI is transforming telecommunications and every other industry, the potential for autonomous operations, uh, is extremely attractive. And so understanding how the end-to-end telecommunication service delivering delivery infrastructure works, uh, is essential, uh, as a training ground for AI models that can help to automate a huge amount of telecommunications operating, um, processes. So the AI demand for data is just going through the roof. >>And so all of these things combined to mean big data is getting explosive. It is absolutely going through the roof. So that's a huge thing that's happening. So as telecommunications companies around the world are looking at their network analytics infrastructure, which was initially designed for service insurance primarily, um, and how they migrate that to the cloud. These things are impacting on those decisions because you're not just looking at migrating a workload to operate in the cloud that used to work in the, in the data center. Now you're looking at, um, uh, migrating a workload, but also expanding the use cases in that work and bear in mind, many of those, those are going to need to remain on prem. So they'll need to be within a private cloud or at best a hybrid cloud environment in order to satisfy a regulatory jurisdictional requirements. So let's talk about an example. >>So LGU plus is a Finastra fantastic service provider in Korea. Um, huge growth in that business over the last, uh, over the last 10, 15 years or so. Um, and obviously most people will be familiar with LG, the electronics brand, maybe less so with, uh, with LG plus, but they've been doing phenomenal work. And we're the first, uh, business in the world who launch commercial 5g in 2019. And so a huge milestone that they achieved. And at the same time they deploy the network real-time analytics platform or in rep, uh, from a combination of Cloudera and our partner calmer. Now, um, there were a number of things that were driving, uh, the requirement for it, for the, for the analytics platform at the time. Um, clearly the 5g launch was that was the big thing that they had in mind, but there were other things that re so within the 5g launch, um, uh, they were looking for, for visibility of services, um, and service assurance and service quality. >>So, you know, what services have been launched? How are they being taken up? What are the issues that are arising, where are the faults happening? Um, where are the problems? Because clearly when you launch a new service, but then you want to understand and be on top of the issues as they arise. Um, so that was really, really important. The second piece was, and, you know, this is not a new story to any telco in the world, right. But there are silos in operation. Uh, and so, um, taking advantage of, um, or eliminating redundancies through the process, um, of, of digital transformation, it was really important. And so particular, the two silos between wired and the wireless sides of the business come together so that there would be an integrated network management system, um, for, uh, for LGU plus, as they rolled out 5g. So eliminating redundancy and driving cost savings through the, the integration of the silos is really, really important. >>And that's a process and the people thing every bit, as much as it is a systems and a data thing. So, um, another big driver and the fourth one, you know, we've talked a little bit about some of these things, right? 5g brings huge opportunity for enterprise services, innovation. So industry 4.0 digital experience, these kinds of use cases, um, are very important in the south Korean marketing and in the, um, in the business of LGU plus. And so, uh, um, looking at AI and how can you apply AI to network management? Uh, again, there's a number of use cases, really, really exciting use cases that have gone live now, um, in LG plus since, uh, since we did this initial deployment and they're making fantastic strides there, um, big data analytics for users across LGU plus, right? So it's not just for, um, uh, it's not just for the immediate application of 5g or the support or the 5g network. >>Um, but also for other data analysts and data scientists across the LGU plus business network analytics, while primarily it's primary it's primary use case is around network management, um, LGU plus, or, or network analytics, um, has applications across the entire business, right? So, um, you know, for customer churn or next best offer for understanding customer experience and customer behavior really important there for digital advertising, for product innovation, all sorts of different use cases and departments within the business needed access to this information. So collaboration sharing across the network, the real-time network analytics platform, um, it was very important. And then finally, as I mentioned, LG group is much bigger than just LG plus it's because the electronics and other pieces, and they had launched a major group wide digital transformation program in 2019, and still being a part of that was, well, some of them, the problems that they were looking to address. >>Um, so first of all, the integration of wired and wireless data service data sources, and so getting your assurance data sources, your network, data sources, uh, and so on integrated with is really, really important scale was massive for them. Um, you know, they're talking about billions of transactions in under a minute, uh, being processed, um, and hundreds of terabytes per day. So, uh, you know, phenomenal scale, uh, that needed to be available out of the box as it were, um, real time indicators and alarms. And there was lots of KPIs and thresholds set that, you know, w to make, make it to meet certain criteria, certain standards, um, customer specific, real time analysis of 5g, particularly for the launch root cause analysis, an AI based prediction on service, uh, anomalies and service service issues was, was, was a core use case. Um, as I talked about already the provision of service of data services across the organization, and then support for 5g, uh, served the business service, uh, impact, uh, was extremely important. >>So it's not just understand well, you know, that you have an outage in a particular network element, but what is the impact on the business of LGU plus, but also what is the impact on the business of the customer, uh, from an outage or an anomaly or a problem on, on, on the network. So being able to answer those kinds of questions really, really important, too. And as I said, between Cloudera and Kamarck, uh, uh, and LGU plus, uh, really themselves an intrinsic part of the solution, um, uh, this is, this is what we, we ended up building. So a big complicated architecture space. I really don't want to go into too much detail here. Um, uh, you can see these things for yourself, but let me skip through it really quickly. So, first of all, the key data sources, um, you have all of your wireless network information, other data sources. >>This is really important because sometimes you kind of skip over this. There are other systems that are in place like the enterprise data warehouse that needed to be integrated as well, southbound and northbound interfaces. So we get our data from the network and so on, um, and network management applications through file interfaces. CAFCA no fire important technologies. And also the RDBMS systems that, uh, you know, like the enterprise data warehouse that we're able to feed that into the system. And then northbound, um, you know, we spoke already about me making network analytics services available across the enterprise. Um, so, uh, you know, uh, having both the file and the API interface available, um, for other systems and other consumers across the enterprise is very important. Um, lots of stuff going on then in the platform itself to petabytes and persistent storage, um, Cloudera HDFS, 300 nodes for the, the raw data storage, um, uh, and then, uh, could do for real time storage for real-time indicator analysis, alarm generation, um, uh, and other real time, um, processes. >>Uh, so there, that was the, the core of the solution, uh, spark processes for ETL key quality indicators and alarming, um, and also a bunch of work done around, um, data preparation, data generation for transferal to, to third party systems, um, through the northbound interfaces, um, uh, Impala, API queries, um, for real-time systems, uh, there on the right hand side, and then, um, a whole bunch of clustering classification, prediction jobs, um, through the, uh, the, the, the, the ML processes, the machine learning processes, uh, again, another key use case, and we've done a bunch of work on that. And, um, I encourage you to have a look at the Cloudera website for more detail on some of the work that we did here. Um, so this is some pretty cool stuff. Um, and then finally, just the upstream services, some of these there's lots more than, than, than simply these ones, but service assurance is really, really important. So SQM cm and SED grade. So the service quality management customer experience, autonomous controllers, uh, really, really important consumers of, of the, of the real-time analytics platform, uh, and your conventional service assurance, um, functions like faulted performance management. Uh, these things are as much consumers of the information and the network analytics platform as they are providers of data to the network, uh, analytics >>Platform. >>Um, so some of the specific use cases, uh, that, uh, have been, have been stood up and that are delivering value to this day and lots of more episodes, but these are just three that we pulled out. Um, so first of all, um, uh, sort of specific monitoring and customer quality analysis, Karen response. So again, growing from the initial 5g launch and then broadening into broader services, um, understanding where there are the, where there are issues so that when people complaining, when people have an issue, um, that, um, uh, that we can answer the, the concerns of the client, um, in a substantive way, um, uh, AI functions around root cause analysis or understanding why things went wrong when they went wrong. Um, uh, and also making recommendations as to how to avoid those occurrences in the future. Uh, so we know what preventative measures can be taken. Um, and then finally the, uh, the collaboration function across LGU plus extremely important and continues to be important to this day where data is shared throughout the enterprise, through the API Lira through file interfaces and other things, and through interface integrations with, uh, with upstream systems. >>So, um, that's kind of the, the, uh, real quick run through of LGU plus the numbers are just stave staggering. Um, you know, we've seen, uh, upwards of a billion transactions in under 40 seconds being, um, uh, being tested. Um, and, and we've gone beyond those thresholds now, already, um, and we're started and, and, and, and this isn't just a theoretical sort of a benchmarking test or something like that. We're seeing these kinds of volumes of data and not too far down the track. So, um, with those things that I mentioned earlier with the proliferation of, of, um, of network infrastructure, uh, in the 5g context with virtualized elements, with all of these other bits and pieces are driving massive volumes of data towards the, uh, the, the, the network analytics platform. So phenomenal scale. Um, this is just one example we work with, with service providers all over the world is over 80% of the top 100 telecommunication service providers run on Cloudera. >>They use Cloudera in the network, and we're seeing those customers, all migrating legacy cloud platforms now onto CDP onto the Cloudera data platform. Um, they're increasing the, the, the jobs that they do. So it's not just warehousing, not just ingestion ETL, and moving into things like machine learning. Um, and also looking at new data sources from places like NWTF the network data analytics function in 5g, or the management and orchestration layer in, in software defined networks, network, function, virtualization. So, you know, new use cases coming in all the time, new data sources coming in all the time growth in, in, in, in the application scope from, as we say, from edge to AI. Um, and so it's, it's really exciting to see how the, the, the, the footprint is growing and how, uh, the applications in telecommunications are really making a difference in, in facilitating, um, network transformation. And that's covering that. That's me covered for today. I hope you found that helpful, um, by all means, please reach out, uh, there's a couple of links here. You can follow me on Twitter. You can connect to the telecommunications page, reach out to me directly at Cloudera. I'd love to answer your questions, um, uh, and, uh, and talk to you about how big data is transforming networks, uh, and how network transformation is, is accelerating telcos, uh, throughout >>Jamie Sharath with Liga data, I'm primarily on the delivery side of the house, but I also support our new business teams. I'd like to spend a minute really just kind of telling you about the legal data, where basically a Silicon valley startup, uh, started in 2014, and, uh, our lead iron, our executive team, basically where the data officers at Yahoo before this, uh, we provide managed data services, and we provide products that are focused on telcos. So we have some experience in non telco industry, but our focus for the last seven years or so is specifically on telco. So again, something over 200 employees, we have a global presence in north America, middle east Africa, Asia, and Europe. And we have folks in all of those places, uh, I'd like to call your attention to the, uh, the middle really of the screen there. So here is where we have done some partnership with Cloudera. >>So if you look at that and you can see we're in Holland and Jamaica, and then a lot to throughout Africa as well. Now, the data fabric is the product that we're talking about. And the data fabric is basically a big data type of data warehouse with a lot of additional functionality involved. The data fabric is comprised of, uh, some something called a flare, which we'll talk about in a minute below there, and then the Cloudera data platform underneath. So this is how we're partnering together. We, uh, we, we have this tool and it's, uh, it's functioning and delivering in something over 10 up. So flare now, flare is a piece of that legal data IP. The rest is there. And what flare does is that basically pulls in data, integrates it to an event streaming platform. It's, uh, it is the engine behind the data fabric. >>Uh, it's also a decisioning platform. So in real time, we're able to pull in data. We're able to run analytics on it, and we're able to alert are, do whatever is needed in a real-time basis. Of course, a lot of clients at this point are still sending data in batch. So it handles that as well, but we call that a CA picture Sanchez. Now Sacho is a very interesting app. It's an AI analytics app for executives. What it is is it runs on your mobile phone. It ties into your data. Now this could be the data fabric, but it couldn't be a standalone product. And basically it allows you to ask, you know, human type questions to say, how are my gross ads last week? How are they comparing against same time last week before that? And even the same time 60 days ago. So as an executive or as an analyst, I can pull it up and I can look at it instantly in a meeting or anywhere else without having to think about queries or anything like that. >>So that's pretty much for us at legal data, not really to set the context of where we are. So this is a traditional telco environments. So you see the systems of record, you see the cloud, you see OSS and BSS data. So one of the things that the next step above which calls we call the system of intelligence of the data fabric does, is it mergers that BSS and OSS data. So the longer we have any silos or anything that's separated, it's all coming into one area to allow business, to go in or allow data scientists go in and do that. So if you look at the bottom line, excuse me, of the, uh, of the system of intelligence, you can see that flare is the tools that pulls in the data. So it provides even streaming capabilities. It preserves entity states, so that you can go back and look at it state at any time. >>It does stream analytics that is as the data is coming in, it can perform analytics on it. And it also allows real-time decisioning. So that's something that, uh, that's something that business users can go in and create a system of, uh, if them's, it looks very much like the graph database, where you can create a product that will allow the user to be notified if a certain condition happens. So for instance, a bundle, so a real-time offer or user is succinct to run out of is ongoing, and an offer can be sent to him right on the fly. And that's set up by the business user as opposed to programmers, uh, data infrastructure. So the fabric has really three areas. That data is persistent, obviously there's the data lake. So the data lake stores that level of granularity that is very deep years and years of history, data, scientists like that, uh, and, uh, you know, for a historical record keeping and requirements from the government, that data would be stored there. >>Then there's also something we call the business semantics layer and the business semantics layer contains something over 650 specific telco KPIs. These are initially from PM forum, but they also are included in, uh, various, uh, uh, mobile operators that we've delivered at. And we've, we've grown that. So that's there for business data lake is there for data scientists, analytical stores, uh, they can be used for many different reasons. There are a lot of times RDBMS is, are still there. So these, this, this basically platform, this cloud they're a platform can tie into analytical data stores as well via flair access and reporting. So graphic visualizations, API APIs are a very key part of it. A third-party query tools, any kind of grid tools can be used. And those are the, of course, the, uh, the ones that are highly optimized and allow, you know, search of billions of records. >>And then if you look at the top, it's the systems of engagement, then you might vote this use cases. So teleco reporting, hundreds of KPIs that are, that are generated for users, segmentation, basically micro to macro segmentation, segmentation will play a key role in a use case. We talked about in a minute monetization. So this helps teleco providers monetize their specific data, but monetize it in. Okay, how to, how do they make money off of it, but also how might you leverage this data to engage with another client? So for instance, in some where it's allowed a DPI is used, and the fabric tracks exactly where each person goes each, uh, we call it a subscriber, goes within his, uh, um, uh, internet browsing on the, on the four or 5g. And, uh, the, all that data is stored. Uh, whereas you can tell a lot of things where the segment, the profile that's being used and, you know, what are they propensity to buy? Do they spend a lot of time on the Coca-Cola page? There are buyers out there that find that information very valuable, and then there's signs of, and we spoke briefly about Sanchez before that sits on top of the fabric or it's it's alone. >>So, so the story really that we want to tell is, is one, this is, this is one case out of it. This is a CVM type of case. So there was a mobile operator out there that was really offering, you know, packages, whether it's a bundle or whether it's a particular tool to subscribers, they, they were offering kind of an abroad approach that it was not very focused. It was not depending on the segments that were created around the profiling earlier, uh, the subscriber usage was somewhat dated and this was causing a lot of those. A lot of those offers to be just basically not taken and, and not, not, uh, audited. Uh, there was limited segmentation capabilities really before the, uh, before the, uh, fabric came in. Now, one of the key things about the fabric is when you start building segments, you can build that history. >>So all of that data stored in the data lake can be used in terms of segmentation. So what did we do about that? The, the, the envy and, oh, the challenge this, uh, we basically put the data fabric in and the data fabric was running Cloudera data platform and that, uh, and that's how we team up. Uh, we facilitated the ability to personalize campaign. So what that means is, uh, the segments that were built and that user fell within that segment, we knew exactly what his behavior most likely was. So those recommendations, those offers could be created then, and we enable this in real time. So real-time ability to even go out to the CRM system and gather further information about that. All of these tools, again, we're running on top of the Cloudera data platform, uh, what was the outcome? Willie, uh, outcome was that there was a much more precise offer given to the client that is, that was accepted, no increase in cross sell and upsell subscriber retention. >>Uh, our clients came back to us and pointed out that, uh, it was 183% year on year revenue increase. Uh, so this is a, this is probably one of the key use cases. Now, one thing to really mention is there are hundreds and hundreds of use cases running on the fabric. And I would even say thousands. A lot of those have been migrated. So when the fabric is deployed, when they bring the Cloudera and the legal data solution in there's generally a legacy system that has many use cases. So many of those were, were migrated virtually all of them in pen, on put on the cloud. Uh, another issue is that new use cases are enabled again. So when you get this level of granularity and when you have campaigns that can now base their offers on years of history, as opposed to 30 days of history, the campaigns campaign management response systems, uh, are, are, uh, are enabled quite a bit to do all, uh, to be precise in their offers. Okay. >>Okay. So this is a technical slide. Uh, one of the things that we normally do when we're, when we're out there talking to folks, is we talk and give an overview and that last little while, and then we give a deep technical dive on all aspects of it. So sometimes that deep dive can go a couple of hours. I'm going to do this slide and a couple of minutes. So if you look at it, you can see over on the left, this is the, uh, the sources of the data. And they go through this tool called flare that runs on the cloud. They're a data platform, uh, that can either be via cues or real-time cues, or it can be via a landing zone, or it can be a data extraction. You can take a look at the data quality that's there. So those are built in one of the things that flare does is it has out of the box ability to ingest data sources and to apply the data quality and validation for telco type sources. >>But one of the reasons this is fast to market is because throughout those 10 or 12, uh, opcos that we've done with Cloudera, where we have already built models, so models for CCN, for air for, for most mediation systems. So there's not going to be a type of, uh, input that we haven't already seen are very rarely. So that actually speeds up deployment very quickly. Then a player does the transformations, the, uh, the metrics, continuous learning, we call it continuous decisioning, uh, API access. Uh, we, uh, you know, for, for faster response, we use distributed cash. I'm not going to go too deeply in there, but the layer in the business semantics layer again, are, are sitting on top of the Cloudera data platform. You see the Kafka CLU, uh, Q1, the right as well. >>And all of that, we're calling the fabric. So the fabric is Cloudera data platform and the cloud and flair and all of this runs together. And, and by the way, there've been many, many, many, many hundreds of hours testing flare with Cloudera and, uh, and the whole process, the results, what are the results? Well, uh, there are, there are four I'm going to talk about, uh, we saw the one for the, it was called my pocket pocket, but it's a CDM type, a use case. Uh, the subscribers of that mobile operator were 14 million plus there was a use case for 24 million plus that a year on year revenue was 130%, uh, 32 million plus for 38%. These are, um, these are different CVM pipe, uh, use cases, as well as network use cases. And then there were 44%, uh, telco with 76 million subscribers. So I think that there are a lot more use cases that we could talk about, but, but in this case, this is the ones we're looking at, uh, again, 183%. This is something that we find consistently. And these figures come from our, uh, our actual end client. How do we unlock the full potential of this? Well, I think to start is to arrange a meeting and, uh, it would be great to, to, uh, for you to reach out to me or to Anthony. Uh, we're working at the junction on this, and we can set up a, uh, we can set up a meeting and we can go through this initial meeting. And, uh, I think that's the very beginning. Uh, again, you can get additional information from Cloudera website and from the league of data website, Anthony, that's the story. Thank you. >>No, that's great. Jeremy, thank you so much. It's a, it's, it's wonderful to go deep. And I know that there are hundreds of use cases being deployed in MTN, um, but great to go deep on one. And like you said, it can, once you get that sort of architecture in place, you can do so many different things. The power of data is tremendous, but it's great to be able to see how you can, how you can track it end to end from collecting the data, processing it, understanding it, and then applying it in a commercial context and bringing actual revenue back into the business. So there is your ROI straight away. Now you've got a platform that you can transform your business on. That's, that's, it's a tremendous story, Jamie, and thank you for your part. Sure. Um, that's a, that's, that's our story for today. Like Jamie says, um, please do flee, uh, feel free to reach out to us. Um, the, the website addresses are there and our contact details, and we'd be delighted to talk to you a little bit more about some of the other use cases, perhaps, um, and maybe about your own business and, uh, and how we might be able to make it, make it perform a little better. So thank you.

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering M I T. Chief data officer and information quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to M I. T. Everybody. This is the Cube. The leader in live coverage. My name is David wanted. I'm here with my co host, Paul Gill, in this day to coverage of the M I t cdo I Q conference. A lot of acronym stands for M I. T. Of course, the great institution. But Chief Data officer information quality event is his 13th annual event. Lars to Maria's here is the managing partner of Brass Rat Capital. Cool name Lars. Welcome to the Cube. Great. Very much. Glad I start with a name brass around Capitol was That's >> rat is reference to the M I t school. Okay, Beaver? Well, he is, but the students call it a brass rat, and I'm third generation M i t. So it's just seen absolutely appropriate. That is a brass rods and capital is not a reference to money, but is actually referenced to the intellectual capital. They if you have five or six brass rats in the same company, you know, we Sometimes engineers arrive and they could do some things. >> And it Boy, if you put in some data data capital in there, you really explosions. We cause a few problems. So we're gonna talk about some new regulations that are coming down. New legislation that's coming down that you exposed me to yesterday, which is gonna have downstream implications. You get ahead of this stuff and understand it. You can really first of all, prepare, make sure you're in compliance, but then potentially take advantage for your business. So explain to us this notion of open government act. >> Um, in the last five years, six years or so, there's been an effort going on to increase the transparency across all levels of government. Okay, State, local and federal government. The first of federal government laws was called the the Open Data Act of 2014 and that was an act. They was acted unanimously by Congress and signed by Obama. They was taking the departments of the various agencies of the United States government and trying to roll up all the expenses into one kind of expense. This is where we spent our money and who got the money and doing that. That's what they were trying to do. >> Big picture type of thing. >> Yeah, big picture type thing. But unfortunately, it didn't work, okay? Because they forgot to include this odd word called mentalities. So the same departments meant the same thing. Data problem. They have a really big data problem. They still have it. So they're to G et o reports out criticizing how was done, and the government's gonna try and correct it. Then in earlier this year, there was another open government date act which said in it was signed by Trump. Now, this time you had, like, maybe 25 negative votes, but essentially otherwise passed Congress completely. I was called the Open as all capital O >> P E >> n Government Data act. Okay, and that's not been implemented yet. But there's live talking around this conference today in various Chief date officers are talking about this requirement that every single non intelligence defense, you know, vital protection of the people type stuff all the like, um, interior, treasury, transportation, those type of systems. If you produce a report these days, which is machine, I mean human readable. You must now in two years or three years. I forget the exact invitation date. Have it also be machine readable. Now, some people think machine riddle mil means like pdf formats, but no, >> In fact, what the government did is it >> said it must be machine readable. So you must be able to get into the reports, and you have to be able to extract out the information and attach it to the tree of knowledge. Okay, so we're all of sudden having context like they're currently machine readable, Quote unquote, easy reports. But you can get into those SEC reports. You pull out the net net income information and says its net income, but you don't know what it attaches to on the tree of knowledge. So, um, we are helping the government in some sense able, machine readable type reporting that weaken, do machine to machine without people being involved. >> Would you say the tree of knowledge You're talking about the constant >> man tick semantic tree of knowledge so that, you know, we all come from one concept like the human is example of a living thing living beast, a living Beeston example Living thing. So it also goes back, and they're serving as you get farther and farther out the tree, there's more distance or semantic distance, but you can attach it back to concept so you can attach context to the various data. Is this essentially metadata? That's what people call it. But if I would go over see sale here at M I t, they would turn around. They call it the Tree of Knowledge or semantic data. Okay, it's referred to his semantic dated, So you are passing not only the data itself, but the context that >> goes along with the data. Okay, how does this relate to the financial transparency? >> Well, Financial Transparency Act was introduced by representative Issa, who's a Republican out of California. He's run the government Affairs Committee in the House. He retired from Congress this past November, but in 2017 he introduced what's got referred to his H R 15 30 Um, and the 15 30 is going to dramatically change the way, um, financial regulators work in the United States. Um, it is about it was about to be introduced two weeks ago when the labor of digital currency stuff came up. So it's been delayed a little bit because they're trying to add some of the digital currency legislation to that law. >> A front run that Well, >> I don't know exactly what the remember soul coming out of Maxine Waters Committee. So the staff is working on a bunch of different things at once. But, um, we own g was asked to consult with them on looking at the 15 30 act and saying, How would we improve quote unquote, given our technical, you know, not doing policy. We just don't have the technical aspects of the act. How would we want to see it improved? So one of the things we have advised is that for the first time in the United States codes history, they're gonna include interesting term called ontology. You know what intelligence? Well, everyone gets scared by the word. And when I read run into people, they say, Are you a doctor? I said, no, no, no. I'm just a date. A guy. Um, but an intolerant tea is like a taxonomy, but it had order has important, and an ontology allows you to do it is ah, kinda, you know, giving some context of linking something to something else. And so you're able Thio give Maur information with an intolerant that you're able to you with a tax on it. >> Okay, so it's a taxonomy on steroids? >> Yes, exactly what? More flexible, >> Yes, but it's critically important for artificial intelligence machine warning because if I can give them until ology of sort of how it goes up and down the semantics, I can turn around, do a I and machine learning problems on the >> order of 100 >> 1000 even 10,000 times faster. And it has context. It has contacts in just having a little bit of context speeds up these problems so dramatically so and it is that what enables the machine to machine? New notion? No, the machine to machine is coming in with son called SP R M just standard business report model. It's a OMG sophistication of way of allowing the computers or machines, as we call them these days to get into a standard business report. Okay, so let's say you're ah drug company. You have thio certify you >> drugged you manufactured in India, get United States safely. Okay, you have various >> reporting requirements on the way. You've got to give extra easy the FDA et cetera that will always be a standard format. The SEC has a different format. FERC has a different format. Okay, so what s p r m does it allows it to describe in an intolerant he what's in the report? And then it also allows one to attach an ontology to the cells in the report. So if you like at a sec 10 Q 10 k report, you can attach a US gap taxonomy or ontology to it and say, OK, net income annual. That's part of the income statement. You should never see that in a balance sheet type item. You know his example? Okay. Or you can for the first time by having that context you can say are solid problem, which suggested that you can file these machine readable reports that air wrong. So they believe or not, There were about 50 cases in the last 10 years where SEC reports have been filed where the assets don't equal total liabilities, plus cheryl equity, you know, just they didn't add >> up. So this to, >> you know, to entry accounting doesn't work. >> Okay, so so you could have the machines go and check scale. Hey, we got a problem We've >> got a problem here, and you don't have to get humans evolved. So we're gonna, um uh, Holland in Australia or two leaders ahead of the United States. In this area, they seem dramatic pickups. I mean, Holland's reporting something on the order of 90%. Pick up Australia's reporting 60% pickup. >> We say pick up. You're talking about pickup of errors. No efficiency, productivity, productivity. Okay, >> you're taking people out of the whole cycle. It's dramatic. >> Okay, now what's the OMG is rolling on the hoof. Explain the OMG >> Object Management Group. I'm not speaking on behalf of them. It's a membership run organization. You remember? I am a >> member of cold. >> I'm a khalid of it. But I don't represent omg. It's the membership has to collectively vote that this is what we think. Okay, so I can't speak on them, right? I have a pretty significant role with them. I run on behalf of OMG something called the Federated Enterprise Risk Management Group. That's the group which is focusing on risk management for large entities like the federal government's Veterans Affairs or Department offense upstairs. I think talking right now is the Chief date Officer for transportation. OK, that's a large organization, which they, they're instructed by own be at the, um, chief financial officer level. The one number one thing to do for the government is to get an effective enterprise worst management model going in the government agencies. And so they come to own G let just like NIST or just like DARPA does from the defense or intelligence side, saying we need to have standards in this area. So not only can we talk thio you effectively, but we can talk with our industry partners effectively on space. Programs are on retail, on medical programs, on finance programs, and so they're at OMG. There are two significant financial programs, or Sanders, that exist once called figgy financial instrument global identifier, which is a way of identifying a swap. Its way of identifying a security does not have to be used for a que ce it, but a worldwide. You can identify that you know, IBM stock did trade in Tokyo, so it's a different identifier has different, you know, the liberals against the one trading New York. Okay, so those air called figgy identifiers them. There are attributes associated with that security or that beast the being identified, which is generally comes out of 50 which is the financial industry business ontology. So you know, it says for a corporate bond, it has coupon maturity, semi annual payment, bullets. You know, it is an example. So that gives you all the information that you would need to go through to the calculation, assuming you could have a calculation routine to do it, then you need thio. Then turn around and set up your well. Call your environment. You know where Ford Yield Curves are with mortgage backed securities or any portable call. Will bond sort of probabilistic lee run their numbers many times and come up with effective duration? Um, And then you do your Vader's analytics. No aggregating the portfolio and looking at Shortfalls versus your funding. Or however you're doing risk management and then finally do reporting, which is where the standardized business reporting model comes in. So that kind of the five parts of doing a full enterprise risk model and Alex So what >> does >> this mean for first? Well, who does his impact on? What does it mean for organizations? >> Well, it's gonna change the world for basically everyone because it's like doing a clue ends of a software upgrade. Conversion one's version two point. Oh, and you know how software upgrades Everyone hates and it hurts because everyone's gonna have to now start using the same standard ontology. And, of course, that Sarah Ontology No one completely agrees with the regulators have agreed to it. The and the ultimate controlling authority in this thing is going to be F sock, which is the Dodd frank mandated response to not ever having another chart. So the secretary of Treasury heads it. It's Ah, I forget it's the, uh, federal systemic oversight committee or something like that. All eight regulators report into it. And, oh, if our stands is being the adviser Teff sock for all the analytics, what these laws were doing, you're getting over farm or more power to turn around and look at how we're going to find data across the three so we can come up consistent analytics and we can therefore hopefully take one day. Like Goldman, Sachs is pre payment model on mortgages. Apply it to Citibank Portfolio so we can look at consistency of analytics as well. It is only apply to regulated businesses. It's gonna apply to regulated financial businesses. Okay, so it's gonna capture all your mutual funds, is gonna capture all your investment adviser is gonna catch her. Most of your insurance companies through the medical air side, it's gonna capture all your commercial banks is gonna capture most of you community banks. Okay, Not all of them, because some of they're so small, they're not regularly on a federal basis. The one regulator which is being skipped at this point, is the National Association Insurance Commissioners. But they're apparently coming along as well. Independent federal legislation. Remember, they're regulated on the state level, not regularly on the federal level. But they've kind of realized where the ball's going and, >> well, let's make life better or simply more complex. >> It's going to make life horrible at first, but we're gonna take out incredible efficiency gains, probably after the first time you get it done. Okay, is gonna be the problem of getting it done to everyone agreeing. We use the same definitions >> of the same data. Who gets the efficiency gains? The regulators, The companies are both >> all everyone. Can you imagine that? You know Ah, Goldman Sachs earnings report comes out. You're an analyst. Looking at How do I know what Goldman? Good or bad? You have your own equity model. You just give the model to the semantic worksheet and all turn around. Say, Oh, those numbers are all good. This is what expected. Did it? Did it? Didn't you? Haven't. You could do that. There are examples of companies here in the United States where they used to have, um, competitive analysis. Okay. They would be taking somewhere on the order of 600 to 7. How 100 man hours to do the competitive analysis by having an available electronically, they cut those 600 hours down to five to do a competitive analysis. Okay, that's an example of the type of productivity you're gonna see both on the investment side when you're doing analysis, but also on the regulatory site. Can you now imagine you get a regulatory reports say, Oh, there's they're out of their way out of whack. I can tell you this fraud going on here because their numbers are too much in X y z. You know, you had to fudge numbers today, >> and so the securities analyst can spend Mme. Or his or her time looking forward, doing forecasts exactly analysis than having a look back and reconcile all this >> right? And you know, you hear it through this conference, for instance, something like 80 to 85% of the time of analysts to spend getting the data ready. >> You hear the same thing with data scientists, >> right? And so it's extent that we can helped define the data. We're going thio speed things up dramatically. But then what's really instinct to me, being an M I t engineer is that we have great possibilities. An A I I mean, really great possibilities. Right now, most of the A miles or pattern matching like you know, this idea using face shield technology that's just really doing patterns. You can do wonderful predictive analytics of a I and but we just need to give ah lot of the a m a. I am a I models the contact so they can run more quickly. OK, so we're going to see a world which is gonna found funny, But we're going to see a world. We talk about semantic analytics. Okay. Semantic analytics means I'm getting all the inputs for the analysis with context to each one of the variables. And when I and what comes out of it will be a variable results. But you also have semantics with it. So one in the future not too distant future. Where are we? We're in some of the national labs. Where are you doing it? You're doing pipelines of one model goes to next model goes the next mile. On it goes Next model. So you're gonna software pipelines, Believe or not, you get them running out of an Excel spreadsheet. You know, our modern Enhanced Excel spreadsheet, and that's where the future is gonna be. So you really? If you're gonna be really good in this business, you're gonna have to be able to use your brain. You have to understand what data means You're going to figure out what your modeling really means. What happens if we were, You know, normally for a lot of the stuff we do bell curves. Okay, well, that doesn't have to be the only distribution you could do fat tail. So if you did fat tail descriptions that a bell curve gets you much different results. Now, which one's better? I don't know, but, you know, and just using example >> to another cut in the data. So our view now talk about more about the tech behind this. He's mentioned a I What about math? Machine learning? Deep learning. Yeah, that's a color to that. >> Well, the tech behind it is, believe or not, some relatively old tech. There is a technology called rd F, which is kind of turned around for a long time. It's a science kind of, ah, machine learning, not machine wearing. I'm sorry. Machine code type. Fairly simplistic definitions. Lots of angle brackets and all this stuff there is a higher level. That was your distracted, I think put into standard in, like, 2000 for 2005. Called out. Well, two point. Oh, and it does a lot at a higher level. The same stuff that already f does. Okay, you could also create, um, believer, not your own special ways of a communicating and ontology just using XML. Okay, So, uh, x b r l is an enhanced version of XML, okay? And so some of these older technologies, quote unquote old 20 years old, are essentially gonna be driving a lot of this stuff. So you know you know Corbett, right? Corba? Is that what a maid omg you know, on the communication and press thing, do you realize that basically every single device in the world has a corpus standard at okay? Yeah, omg Standard isn't all your smartphones and all your computers. And and that's how they communicate. It turns out that a lot of this old stuff quote unquote, is so rigidly well defined. Well done that you can build modern stuff that takes us to the Mars based on these old standards. >> All right, we got to go. But I gotta give you the award for the most acronyms >> HR 15 30 fi G o m g s b r >> m fsoc tarp. Oh, fr already halfway. We knew that Owl XML ex brl corba, Which of course >> I do. But that's well done. Like thanks so much for coming. Everyone tried to have you. All right, keep it right there, everybody, We'll be back with our next guest from M i t cdo I Q right after this short, brief short message. Thank you

(funky music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with the CUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios havin' a CUBE conversation, but for a little bit of something different. Instead of having our guest here locally in Palo Alto we've got him all the way across the country, across the pond, all the way over to Holland, and he's in Utrecht, and we're happy to welcome Erik Klein. He is the infrastructure architect for FrieslandCampina. Erik thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so before we get started, a little background on FrieslandCampina for people that aren't familiar with the company. >> FrieslandCampina is a co-operative company owned by farmers, predominantly in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. It's a international company. We have about 34 countries with, we have, at our sales offices, our plans in there, we are one of the biggest dairy companies in the world, and love to be there. It's a very good company to work for. >> It's amazing, I was doing a little research, I mean the scale is amazing. You guys, you operate in 100 countries, exporting. You've got offices in 34 countries. I think it said of 23,000 plus employees. It's quite a big operation. >> Yup. >> So, >> A big operation doing about 10 billion liters, or kilograms, of milk a year. >> Great, so, it's a dairy, we're here talking about digital transformation; it's always fascinating to me, kind of, the reach of digital transformation in everybody's company. Everyone says everyone's really a software company, you know, kind of built around a different product or service. So what were some of the challenges that you were looking towards in 2018-2019 in terms of digital transformation in this mature industry of dairy? >> The challenges that we're having is that you have to make sure that everything is safe. The products are safe, but also the data is safe. But also that we have a lot of things move through the Cloud, and also that the performance of those applications moves through the Cloud, is to the end user's satisfaction as well. So you're not looking only at transferring data safely from the Cloud into our offices, into our production environment, also protecting our production environments from everything that's going bad on the Internet, but also having to make sure that the applications are performing to the liking of the end user, so to speak, to our customer and our consumers. >> And was the objective to build new applications in the Cloud, or was it more kind of lift-and-shift some of your older applications in the Cloud? Because those are two very different challenges. >> Yeah, it's a lift-and-shift of our older applications. For example we're now in the middle of moving our SAP environment to the Cloud, at least the development test and user environments are moved to the Cloud. The other ones remain still within a traditional data center environment, and we have moved all of our Office 365, so that's Skype for Business, SharePoint, but all the other applications to the Cloud as well. >> Ha ha. >> And there we have all this additional transformation, the challenges that really comes back to the end user. >> Those are huge applications; SAP and Office 365. Those are not insignificant >> Yup. >> applications at all. So what were some of the challenges, I'm sure we have a lot of your peers watching this. What is some of the tips and tricks that you can share with them? Big challenges that you had to overcome? Things you thought about, maybe some things that you didn't think about in that transformation? >> If you look at the SAP landscape, it's the sheer amount of interfaces between the different components of SAP. That's was something that made us decide not to move SAP to the Cloud, not the production environment and the systems Environment. That was too big of an impact. That would take too long to do and we don't have that time. If you look at Office 365, the fact that Microsoft is very averse in having anything in the middle, that brought us some real challenges. And and we did that already in 2014-2015 and we had our fair share of all fun and games. >> Ha ha ha, so what was different about it then than today? I mean obviously the Cloud has moved quite a bit. I don't know if you can mention which Cloud you put it in? >>Yeah correct, the fact that Zscaler now, does the updating, and all the changes within the Microsoft environment. So you don't have to do it yourself. You don't have to constantly monitor the ARS feeds from Microsoft, do all the changes yourself. Now it's all done by Zscaler, all the SSL bypass, the authentication bypass has been set correctly. So when that came on board that made our life a lot easier. >> Wow. >> The first part of the migration that we did in in Europe, especially in the bigger locations like Amersfoort, which has our headquarters, we really had our challenges to keep the end user satisfied. >> So just, again, kind of the scale of the end users. You mentioned that a couple of times. Is this in support of all the 23,000 people that are employed at FrieslandCampina? Is it a subset, or is it remote workers? How are you, kind of, allocating this effort? >> It is indeed all users, except for the factory workers. We don't allow people that work in production direct access to the internet. So those people are not as much excluded, but they have special PCs where they work on. So you're looking currently at about 15,000 people that are working with Office 365 directly on a day-to-day basis within FrieslandCampina. >> Wow, so the other thing you've talked about repeatedly is not only satisfaction with the users who are interfacing with the systems, but security. So what were some of the >> Yup. >> security considerations that you considered? How did you, kind of, bake security into your process? And, as we hear all the time as we go to different shows, including security shows, you know, it's not a bolt-on anymore; you have to be thinking security throughout the whole pipeline of the process. So how did you think about it? How did you attack it? How did you solve some of those problems? >> We started thinking about it already in 2012. We had, at that time within FrieslandCampina, a program specifically driven out of the LT environment, so the operational technology, so the production IT, so to speak, and they come up with an architecture based on the ISO 9599 norm, and we took that on board as IT and continued to work on that. So from 2014 we already had in our plans, the architecture to separate the various layers of the ISO 9599 framework into security zones, and we're constantly building on that one. We're refining it, we're improving it. >> Another question on security, really, and kind of the network architecture. Did you have to re-do anything within your network architecture to make this move to the Cloud possible? How did you address the network? >> It was a completely redesigned. It was a complete redesign. In the, previous to that, we just had IT, and we had one or two firewalls on-site that connects to a certain part of OT, and that was it. And now we have an architecture where we can integrate all different flavors of OT. There's no need for OT to have their own internet connections for maintenance, for support, et cetera. It's all integrated and secure. We made, and the reason for that is that you can't, in this day and age, have an island structure. Everything needs to be integrated. Everything needs to talk to each other, et cetera. >>  So Erik, this interview is sponsored by Zscaler. You're a customer of theirs. I'm just curious if you can talk a little bit about how, you know, their offering enabled you to do stuff that maybe you couldn't do before. How did you get involved with them? How are they working with them throughout this project? And how has that really been an enabler for your, you know, your move to the Cloud? >> In 2013-2014 there was a request from the business, a very strong drive from the business, that looked into breakouts, specifically to get localized contact, driven out of the, how do say that, marketing department. And then we looked at, okay, how can we enable that without creating firewalls on every location we're having, making it very expensive, etcetera. And at that time our provider, Verizon, came up, let's do a Cloud security with Verizon, with Zscaler, and do a proof of concept, and build on that one. So that worked. That gave us more regularity, if the people in the countries that needed localized content got the localized content, speeding up the application for the specific countries, so no happening from Tokyo, Japan, back to Singapore, back to websites in Japan. So that helps a lot, but like I said it was early days so we had our challenges in getting that working, getting it secure, getting the traffic to the correct Zscaler node, and so on. So we did make, from the initial set-up of this network, a number of iterations to come to where we are today. >> Great. >> So it's not one decision and then it works. No, it's a decision, see what has worked, which challenge you're getting, and then take it to the next level. >> Right. >> If we do the same thing with Zscaler as they're offering today it will be a lot quicker. We will have a number of those challenges that we had at that time, we will not have today. >> So as you look forward, what's kind of next. As you mentioned this isn't a one-stop shop. This is an ongoing process. What are, kind of, your next priorities, you know, over the next six months or so as you guys continue on this journey? >> To another data center, so not to the Cloud but to a different data center, so that's a big, really a big program. The other thing we're looking at is how can we improve remote access, provide extra benefits as part. We also look at the ZPA product of Zscaler. We're doing a proof of concept, probably in the second half of this year. So, but on the other side, this year, 2019, FrieslandCampina is a, how do you say that in proper English, stop and look back and see what's really important, what we need to go forward. So it's not going crazy on all different kind of projects. It is, okay, what will actually contribute to the profitability of FrieslandCampina going forward. >> I think that's a really great close. I know it's late in Utrecht. I appreciate you taking some time out of your evening, and I was going to ask you the last question, you know, what advice would you have for your peers, for other practitioners that are looking at this, and, you know, either in the process or planning out their journey, but I think you hit on a big one right there which is really focus on the things that matter, focus on the things that really make a difference, and just don't start doing science experiments all over the place because you can, or it's fun, or it's interesting. >> Well, what my worries are for the future, and what, not keeps me awake at night, but that that's too much, is the bad that's going around in this world is getting stronger. They have more resources than we, as a company, has to defend for us against, and the acute challenge would be, is identifying what is your traffic that is good flowing in your network. Because if you're knowing what is good everything that's not defined as being good can be immediately defined as being bad. In that case you'll have a better position in preventing yourself against everything that's going wrong, like WannaCry. If you know that WannaCry is using a well known port used all over the place in FrieslandCampina. But if you then see that same port being used to communicate between servers that never communicated before, or to workstations to servers that never communicated before, then you say, okay, stop that one immediately, because that's not good. >> Right. >> And at that moment our biggest challenge is identifying what is the traffic that's good within our network. >> Well that's a great tip, you know, that's great. You know what the positives are, and if it doesn't make the the green list then shut 'er down and (chuckling) find out what's going on. >> Correct. >> All right. >> Correct. And the reason why we identified WannaCry is that somebody, for some reason, identified Hey this server never talked with that device: Why? >> Yeah, we're hearing that, >> And because, all. >> because with IOT you have to do that, right? >> You have to do that. >> 'Cause everything's IP connected, right? Whether it's the shades and the HVAC system all the way down to all your manufacturing processes, distribution processes, >> Correct. >> IT systems. >> Correct, correct. Our big advantage was that the call back to the command and control servers was already blocked by Zscaler so it didn't hurt us that much. >> Yeah, well good, we got to keep the cows safe, keep the milk safe, and the, >> Yeah, absolutely. >> what did you say, the 10 billion gallons of milk that you guys kick out a year, or something like that? >> Yep. >> It's amazing, ha ha. >> It's amazing. >> All right Erik, well thanks for sharing your story. Good luck on your future transformations, and good luck next week; thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right, he's Erik, I'm Jeff, you're watching the CUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios and Utrecht, Holland. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (funky music)

(funky music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with the CUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios havin' a CUBE conversation, but for a little bit of something different. Instead of having our guest here locally in Palo Alto we've got him all the way across the country, across the pond, all the way over to Holland, and he's in Utrecht, and we're happy to welcome Erik Klein. He is the infrastructure architect for FrieslandCampina. Eric thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so before we get started, a little background on FrieslandCampina for people that aren't familiar with the company. >> FrieslandCampina is a co-operative company owned by farmers, predominantly in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. It's a international company. We have about 34 countries with, we have, at our sales offices, our plans in there, we are one of the biggest dairy companies in the world, and love to be there. It's a very good company to work for. >> It's amazing, I was doing a little research, I mean the scale is amazing. You guys, you operate in 100 countries, exporting. You've got offices in 34 countries. I think it said of 23,000 plus employees. It's quite a big operation. >> Yup. >> So, >> A big operation doing about 10 billion liters, or kilograms, of milk a year. >> Great, so, it's a dairy, we're here talking about digital transformation; it's always fascinating to me, kind of, the reach of digital transformation in everybody's company. Everyone says everyone's really a software company, you know, kind of built around a different product or service. So what were some of the challenges that you were looking towards in 2018-2019 in terms of digital transformation in this mature industry of dairy? >> The challenges that we're having is that you have to make sure that everything is safe. The products are safe, but also the data is safe. But also that we have a lot of things move through the Cloud, and also that the performance of those applications moves through the Cloud, is to the end user's satisfaction as well. So you're not looking only at transferring data safely from the Cloud into our offices, into our production environment, also protecting our production environments from everything that's going bad on the Internet, but also having to make sure that the applications are performing to the liking of the end user, so to speak, to our customer and our consumers. >> And was the objective to build new applications in the Cloud, or was it more kind of lift-and-shift some of your older applications in the Cloud? Because those are two very different challenges. >> Yeah, it's a lift-and-shift of our older applications. For example we're now in the middle of moving our SAP environment to the Cloud, at least the development test and user environments are moved to the Cloud. The other ones remain still within a traditional data center environment, and we have moved all of our Office 365, so that's Skype for Business, SharePoint, but all the other applications to the Cloud as well. >> Ha ha. >> And there we have all this additional transformation, the challenges that really comes back to the end user. >> Those are huge applications; SAP and Office 365. Those are not insignificant >> Yup. >> applications at all. So what were some of the challenges, I'm sure we have a lot of your peers watching this. What is some of the tips and tricks that you can share with them? Big challenges that you had to overcome? Things you thought about, maybe some things that you didn't think about in that transformation? >> If you look at the SAP landscape, it's the sheer amount of interfaces between the different components of SAP. That's was something that made us decide not to move SAP to the Cloud, not the production environment and the systems Environment. That was too big of an impact. That would take too long to do and we don't have that time. If you look at Office 365, the fact that Microsoft is very adverse in having anything in the middle, that brought us some real challenges. And and we did that already in 2014-2015 and we had our fair share of all fun and games. >> Ha ha ha, so what was different about it then than today? I mean obviously the Cloud has moved quite a bit. I don't know if you can mention which Cloud you put it in? >> Yeah correct, the fact that Zscaling now, does the updating, and all the changes within the Microsoft environment. So you don't have to do it yourself. You don't have to constantly monitor the ARS feeds from Microsoft, do all the changes yourself. Now it's all done by Zscaler, all the SSL bypass, the authentication bypass has been set correctly. So when that came on board that made our life a lot easier. >> Wow. >> The first part of the migration that we did in in Europe, especially in the bigger locations like Amersfoort, which has our headquarters, we really had our challenges to keep the end user satisfied. >> So just, again, kind of the scale of the end users. You mentioned that a couple of times. Is this in support of all the 23,000 people that are employed at FrieslandCampina? Is it a subset, or is it remote workers? How are you, kind of, allocating this effort? >> It is indeed all users, except for the factory workers. We don't allow people that work in production direct access to the internet. So those people are not as much excluded, but they have special PCs where they work on. So you're looking currently at about 15,000 people that are working with Office 365 directly on a day-to-day basis within FrieslandCampina. >> Wow, so the other thing you've talked about repeatedly is not only satisfaction with the users who are interfacing with the systems, but security. So what were some of the >> Yup. >> security considerations that you considered? How did you, kind of, bake security into your process? And, as we hear all the time as we go to different shows, including security shows, you know, it's not a bolt-on anymore; you have to be thinking security throughout the whole pipeline of the process. So how did you think about it? How did you attack it? How did you solve some of those problems? >> We started thinking about it already in 2012. We had, at that time within FrieslandCampina, a program specifically driven out of the LT environment, so the operational technology, so the production IT, so to speak, and they come up with an architecture based on the ISO 9599 norm, and we took that on board as IT and continued to work on that. So from 2014 we already had in our plans, the architecture to separate the various layers of the ISO 9599 framework into security zones, and we're constantly building on that one. We're refining it, we're improving it. >> Another question on security, really, and kind of the network architecture. Did you have to re-do anything within your network architecture to make this move to the Cloud possible? How did you address the network? >> It was a completely redesigned. It was a complete redesign. In the, previous to that, we just had IT, and we had one or two firewalls on-site that connects to a certain part of OT, and that was it. And now we have an architecture where we can integrate all different flavors of OT. There's no need for OT to have their own internet connections for maintenance, for support, et cetera. It's all integrated and secure. We made, and the reason for that is that you can't, in this day and age, have an island structure. Everything needs to be integrated. Everything needs to talk to each other, et cetera. >> So Erik, this interview is sponsored Zscaler. You're a customer of theirs. I'm just curious if you can talk a little bit about how, you know, their offering enabled you to do stuff that maybe you couldn't do before. How did you get involved with them? How are they working with them throughout this project? And how has that really been an enabler for your, you know, your move to the Cloud? >> In 2013-2014 there was a request from the business, a very strong drive from the business, that looked into breakouts, specifically to get localized contact, driven out of the, how do say that, marketing department. And then we looked at, okay, how can we enable that without creating firewalls on every location we're having, making it very expensive, et cetera. And at that time our provider, Verizon, came up, let's do a Cloud security with Verizon, with Zscaler, and do a proof of concept, and build on that one. So that worked. That gave us more regularity, if the people in the countries that needed localized content got the localized content, speeding up the application for the specific countries, so no happening from Tokyo, Japan, back to Singapore, back to websites in Japan. So that helps a lot, but like I said it was early days so we had our challenges in getting that working, getting it secure, getting the traffic to the correct Zscaler node, and so on. So we did make, from the initial set-up of this network, a number of iterations to come to where we are today. >> Great. >> So it's not one decision and then it works. No, it's a decision, see what has worked, which challenge you're getting, and then take it to the next level. >> Right. >> If we do the same thing with Zscaler as they're offering today it will be a lot quicker. We will have a number of those challenges that we had at that time, we will not have today. >> So as you look forward, what's kind of next. As you mentioned this isn't a one-stop shop. This is an ongoing process. What are, kind of, your next priorities, you know, over the next six months or so as you guys continue on this journey? >> To another data center, so not to the Cloud but to a different data center, so that's a big, really a big program. The other thing we're looking at is how can we improve remote access, provide extra benefits as part. We also look at the CPA product of Zscaler. We're doing a proof of concept, probably in the second half of this year. So, but on the other side, this year, 2019, FrieslandCampina is a, how do you say that in proper English, stop and look back and see what's really important, what we need to go forward. So it's not going crazy on all different kind of projects. It is, okay, what will actually contribute to the profitability of FrieslandCampina going forward. >> I think that's a really great close. I know it's late in Utrecht. I appreciate you taking some time out of your evening, and I was going to ask you the last question, you know, what advice would you have for your peers, for other practitioners that are looking at this, and, you know, either in the process or planning out their journey, but I think you hit on a big one right there which is really focus on the things that matter, focus on the things that really make a difference, and just don't start doing science experiments all over the place because you can, or it's fun, or it's interesting. >> Well, what my worries are for the future, and what, not keeps me awake at night, but that that's too much, is the bad that's going around in this world is getting stronger. They have more resources than we, as a company, has to defend for us against, and the acute challenge would be, is identifying what is your traffic that is good flowing in your network. Because if you're knowing what is good everything that's not defined as being good can be immediately defined as being bad. In that case you'll have a better position in preventing yourself against everything that's going wrong, like WannaCry. If you know that WannaCry is using a well known port used all over the place in FrieslandCampina. But if you then see that same port being used to communicate between servers that never communicated before, or to workstations to servers that never communicated before, then you say, okay, stop that one immediately, because that's not good. >> Right. >> And at that moment our biggest challenge is identifying what is the traffic that's good within our network. >> Well that's a great tip, you know, that's great. You know what the positives are, and if it doesn't make the the green list then shut 'er down and (chuckling) find out what's going on. >> Correct. >> All right. >> Correct. And the reason why we identified WannaCry is that somebody, for some reason, identified Hey this server never talked with that device: Why? >> Yeah, we're hearing that, >> And because, all. >> because with IOT you have to do that, right? >> You have to do that. >> 'Cause everything's IP connected, right? Whether it's the shades and the HVAC system all the way down to all your manufacturing processes, distribution processes, >> Correct. >> IT systems. >> Correct, correct. Our big advantage was that the call back to the command and control servers was already blocked by Zscaler so it didn't hurt us that much. >> Yeah, well good, we got to keep the cows safe, keep the milk safe, and the, >> Yeah, absolutely. >> what did you say, the 10 billion gallons of milk that you guys kick out a year, or something like that? >> Yep. >> It's amazing, ha ha. >> It's amazing. >> All right Erik, well thanks for sharing your story. Good luck on your future transformations, and good luck next week; thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right, he's Erik, I'm Jeff, you're watching the CUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios and Utrecht, Holland. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (funky music)

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Boomi World 2018. Brought to you by Dell Boomi. >> Good evening, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin, live from Las Vegas at Boomi World '18. Been here all day talking with Dell Technology CEO, Michael Dell, to Dell Boomi execs, customers. We're joined by a couple of gentlemen now, one is a customer of Dell Boomi, that's Peter de Lange, from Digital Angel, the CEO and co-founder, welcome, and Mike Veldhuis, co-founder of Nalta, which is their transformation partner. Guys, thanks so much for joining me on theCUBE this afternoon. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. >> So, I first saw you this morning on stage, saw you accepting your award. This was Dell Boomi's first time honoring and recognizing customers so congratulations on being the winner of the Emerging Technology Award, but let's start by just giving our viewers an idea of, we'll start Mike, with you, Nalta, as a Boomi partner. >> Yup. >> Tell us a little bit about Nalta. What do you guys do, what makes you unique, where are you based? >> Well, first of all, we are from Holland. You know, so, for us it's great to be in Vegas, great to be in the U.S. and tell our story over here. We started in the Netherlands, in 2000. We're not a very big company compared to many large U.S. companies. We're a team of 60 people, and we started as an infrastructure company in 2000, already a Dell partner and we had a software department as well as software company and what's so cool about I.O.T. and the stuff we build nowadays is that we combine those two disciplines integrate I.T. platforms like we did for Digital Angel. >> So let's talk about Digital Angel. Thank you, Mike. First of all, I love the name, there's a lot of significance to that. We talked about award winner for Dell Boomi. Tell us a little bit about Digital Angel. What was the genesis of creating it not so long ago? >> Well, um, first thing was, if you're looking at what's happening in healthcare, one thing that's really important is getting qualified caregivers, because there's a big shortage on that. Next to that, if you look at the development of the baby boomers, the older or the seniors are, the group is growing, and on the other hand, the caregivers are less available. So how can we match that? So we need new technology. The first question was, or the main question, can we connect smart healthcare products to the internet? And maybe with those products we can help the healthcare sector. >> Give me an example of some of those products that you're talking about. >> The first product we have connected to our platform is a smart mattress. >> A smart mattress? >> Yeah, it's embedded with light sensors and it measures, for example, the way a person lies on a mattress, but it also measures the heartbeats, breathing rates, all those data variables. >> Wow. That's pretty cool, smart mattress. So, you had this idea, really kind of nothing in the Netherlands, or even here in the U.S. at the time, but healthcare is one of those industries that obviously, we're talking about life or death situations. There are so many devices that are not connected, and people can lose their lives as a result. So, walk us through this concept of a smart mattress and how you're working with manufacturers to build that and then we'll get to how you're working on transforming with Nalta. >> Yeah, no problem. Well, starting off from the question, can we connect, yes we can. Next of the factors is we need a platform to land all the data in. We need customers like manufacturers because they must produce products that are able to generate data. So the first one was the mattress, the next one is a bed, a wheelchair, so we already have several products live within approx situation. That's where we got off, yeah. >> So Mike, talk to us about when you first started engaging with Digital Angel. A presumably unique opportunity to really transform an industry, save lives, talk to us a little bit about when you guys got together to really take this idea and really help it grow and help transform an industry. >> First of all, for us, it's wonderful to work on such a huge case. Like you said, you're potentially saving lives and I.T., sometimes, is so I.T.-ish. You're talking about technology, tools, applications, technicians, engineers, it's all in that I.T. level, and that's perfectly fine. They're solving problems and challenges. But, talking about a business case or business itself is so energizing because you can actually tap into a customer's needs and help them find solutions for the challenges they have. And in this case, we are talking about I.O.T., internet of things, which is a little vague. Digital transformation is even vaguer. >> Right. >> So when Digital Angel approached us with this, on first sight, very simple need, we want to connect a mattress or a device to a platform to present the data and the insights of this device to the end customer in favor of the patient, it's our job to start questions, questioning, and listen and put it on paper, write user stories, get a clear picture of what the actual need is. Then from that, we build our first project and our first product, and eventually the first platform. That became the Digital Angel platform itself. >> And you've done this in a very short period of time. >> True. >> Uh, yeah. I think the, >> Eight months? >> No, no, no. It was faster. The first version was within seven months. >> Wow. Seven months. >> Yeah, and that's the beauty of if you can cooperate with people with knowledge like Nalta in a partnership, but also the availability of components like Dell Boomi. >> Yeah. >> So you can fasten up the process to create new things and that's really important to get much further and get things done. >> So let's unpack that a little bit more. Dell Boomi's platform as kind of a fueler, maybe some power to your platform? >> Mhmm. >> Talk to us about the integration, how you're using it specifically and what some of the new things that they announced this week, how does that excite you about being able to grow your business? >> Well, the thing is, and that's what Mike explained, is listen to the needs. So, we have needs as a company, Digital Angel, next to the fact that patients also have needs. How can we translate that into technology? So, the question we asked Mike, or Nalta, we must have a platform that is able to be completely flexible, so that's the basic, it must be able to do the analytics, if necessary. There's a long list of things we have to have within the platform and then, it's Nalta who is answering that question. >> Yeah, we translate it into a Boomi solution. And I think what's innovative, we just came out of a breakout session and one of the questions we got we were telling the Digital Angel Story and our story, how we work with customers, where does Boomi fit in? Does it come at last, what is the reason you put Boomi into the solution, just for moving data from point A to point B? The answer to that is that we have Boomi at the core of the design itself, so we start with Boomi, it's not an afterthought, it's not that we have a solution an application and now all of a sudden we have to tie it into a different ecosystem. We start with Boomi, and that's very powerful because we have all the time and flexibility to choose the best of great solutions around this Boomi solution, and that's what we've done. >> So, looking at this unique opportunity, to be able to transform average, everyday hospital products into smart devices that can actually influence the pace of care, the treatment of care, innovation. That's pretty remarkable. I'd love to understand, Peter, from your perspective, what are some of the actual results that you're starting to see maybe in the Netherlands. >> Yeah. >> You mentioned, I think before we went live that you're starting to come over here. Give us some of those tangible nuggets that you're like, this is why we're doing this, this is why we're helping these organizations connect. >> By having the platform and connecting all of those products, you have to know several things. When you are visiting healthcare institutes, one of the things is, we are using networks on 165 apps already, so we need another one. We already use I.T. related products, so, I'm busy with a patient and I have to scribe from one app to the other to get my information, but the thing I see is single information, because I can see the blood-pressure or the heartbeat or something like that. So if it's possible, can we combine that? So in the back end we can combine all the data of the different products and it enables us not only in the background, but also on the front end to have one user interface, so we don't need all the 165 apps. So we are creating time. >> Creating time? >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> That's really interesting, and with that time, as a caregiver, because we know there's a shortage on caregivers, the right care at the right moment, to the right person can be given, and that's one of the goals we have and can already see as a result. We can also calculate saving, but the most important thing for us as the company, we want to improve the quality of life and not so much talk about savings. One of them is, the first digital product we've created, based on the data, saves 6000 dollars a year, for one digital product, for one patient. So that's in numbers. That's results. That's real, real results. >> I've never heard anybody talk about a business outcome as creating time. (laughter) >> But, in healthcare, we've talked about that a number of times, it's essential. So, last question, Peter, for you. You've mentioned expanding to the U.S., because of the things I find shocking in 2018 almost 2019 is you have a loved one who is in the hospital and there are so many people that come in to do rounds and they all have devices and nothing is connected. How are you going to help us in the U.S. to resolve that problem with Digital Angel? >> I can answer that with another example. One of the things was, if we are able to see how a person lies on his bed, and the care institute has a protocol, and the protocol says, you have to turn these patients each and every three hours, what we did know in total 30 to 50 percent of the people turn around themselves during the night. So you don't have to turn them. >> Interesting. >> Even if you turn them, the chance of example, pressure sores, is much higher. >> Really? >> Yeah. 30 to 50 percent. >> Wow. All of this by evaluating data. Well, gentlemen, I wish we had more time it's such an interesting use-case. Peter, congratulations on the award, Mike you as well. >> Thank you very much >> Thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE and talking to us about how you guys are helping to transform an industry. >> Thank you very much, for the opportunity >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin. Stick around John Ferger and I will be back with our show wrap in just a short minute. (upbeat music)

[Music] hey welcome back everybody Jeff freek here with the cube we're in Reno Nevada at the inner bike show it's a big show all about bikes and mountain bikes but we're really to talk about ebike skuzzy bikes is this new class of really transportation not really new turns out that gazelles been making them since 2002 so we're at the Royal Dutch gazelle event that adjective in next to enter bike and we're excited to see they're releasing a bunch of new bikes and really dig into what are these e bikes all about we've been told that the United States a little bit behind you're starting to see them show up is it a last mile vehicle is it you know a primary vehicle what are the laws and regulations or we're really excited to have our first guest she's been dealing with this for years and years and years it's current wiener she is a co-owner of the new wheel Carn great to see you thanks thanks for having me absolutely so give us a little background on the new wheel where are you guys how long have been around what's your what's your focus yeah and the new wheel is located in San Francisco and Marin County and Larkspur we opened in 2010 so about eight years ago out of our excuse me out of our apartment because we realized that nobody was really seeing the opportunity in this transportation alternative right and so we were seeing what was happening in Europe which like you said has been happening for a while and we realized that gosh San Francisco is the perfect place it's it's an obvious match an electric bike which basically amplifies your pedaling power acts exactly like a bicycle except for you're always in your best shape and having your best day and having the most fun and so um we started with basically one bike who are three bikes and we had a mobile shop that we would ride from farmers market to farmers market then we opened our first store in 2012 and we're still in that location in Bernal Heights in San Francisco and we focus on curating high quality electric bikes that are going to work really well in San Francisco which as you know is a really rugged especially in terms of elevation gain environment right so what if you could talk about some things some miss or not miss so one thing is why we came here is we were really looking at e-bikes is really a last bio vehicle and that's kind of in the in the line of smart cities and in kind of multimodal transportation do you'd have a lime scooter to the Cal train maybe it's your car maybe you've got your own bike but what I'm hearing here is these things are a lot more than last mile vehicles these are actually substitution vehicles for a significant amount of car rides not just the two miles run down to the store to get some milk or to get some cereal or to get some coffee but a much heavier load on these things yeah it's very very interesting so if we look to Europe the ebike started as a replacement for bicycle trips in kind of urban environments for people who are maybe getting older or whatever and the Bison and any bike works really well for just in in turn inner-city transportation there's been an interesting kind of development in Europe in the last say four or five years which is the rise of the speed electric bike you can with a very small battery you can ride 40 to 60 miles 40 to 60 months yeah and that means that you can ride from one city to another so now what we're seeing is a clerk across the Netherlands actual bicycle super highways that cover maybe you know five to 20 miles and that becomes a reasonable bicycle ride on the daily basis and that's really exciting it's something that is unlike basically any other form of transportation it's not a motorcycle it's not that heavy-duty you don't need license or insurance or anything like that you're still getting exercise and you're getting where you need to get right so it's talked about the speed because the speed is interesting thing and I think the speed is what dictates some of the regulation so we see in San Francisco got inundated with the Lyme scooters and there's boosted boards and one wheels and all sorts of kind of contraptions with these great high-capacity batteries and these itty-bitty little little motors so the form factors are numerous but all of them seem to be gated around 20 miles an hour which I think is the regulation to keep them from being considered a scooter you know a internal-combustion scooter so you're talking about speed bikes so they've got bikes here today that goes like 28 miles an hour so how are the regulations keeping up with us a bike that goes 28 miles an hour so it's developing slowly it's developing based on models that have already been tested and used in Europe in California there was actually a model legislation passed I think three years ago which defined three types of electric bikes and defines them as bicycles so type 1 is a bicycle that goes to 20 miles an hour and basically it has to be you have to be pedaling type 2 is a bicycle it also goes to 20 miles an hour but can have a throttle now this is a very Asian type of electric bike it's not quite as polished but usually they're lower-cost okay and then type three is this 27 mile an hour type still a bicycle you're required to wear a helmet and there are some places that you're not allowed to ride them like on shared pedestrian paths right and so what's good about this is it's creating a model for different local and regional governments to create rules it's taking time from but what's exciting is that there is a model so the scooters and the one wheels are all operating under cut-ins this DMV law that is kind of this type of as you describe it is kind of type 1 but it's also kind of skirt like it seems really unclear right I think there's an opportunity and electric bikes for it to be very clear and I think we're on the way to that it's just going to take something right now in terms of the actual utility obviously this is a Dutch company they don't have great weather in Holland as we know San Francisco as you mentioned is a rugged place not to mention the fact it's about as rough as it gets for parked cars getting broken into so what do you see from your customers in terms of the actual utility carrying stuff home from the store survivability in the streets you know not getting stolen inexpensive pieces of gear so what's kind of the experience you've seen with your kind of long history in this space in the city so what I've seen is that what you use matters a lot so the type of bike that you choose out of the gate is going to dictate first of all how well it's going to last and second of all how well it's gonna work in the first place right the other thing is that the way it's not only the bicycle you also have to have the right lock and you have to have the right bag and the right set up to give you the actual full utility potential of the bicycle and that's where you know specialists and retailers really come in you also need service so most people have owned bicycles in their lifetime and it may be stretched one train stretching a chain takes about 2,000 miles on a bike okay an e bike rider usually stretches a train in a little under a year because suddenly your bicycle is your preferred mode of transportation for thousands of miles of errands and and urban duties and and pleasure right that you never had before on a bicycle so it's a switch in terms of how people understand the maintenance that they need on their bike but also what kind of tools they need like a great lock and it turns out that you actually can lock a bike safely not overnight on the street but at any time of day there are locks that work really really well through the bike safe so next day on touch bases kind of the evolving technology yeah so we're hearing over and over that really the the battery technology is getting this just huge boost from autonomous cars because now there's huge investments in battery you've probably seen tremendous developments both in the batteries and the propulsion systems and the technology and these bikes since you've been out that's four for eight years how is that kind of changing and how is that opening up you know maybe the opportunity to people that maybe didn't wanna a shorter range you know six a 10 a 12 a 15 wherever the older kind of range models were battery technology that that originated in laptops and I was being used in cars and autonomous vehicles totally changed the potential for electric bikes and it changes it will change so many things about your bicycle for example not too far down the road I believe that there will be anti-theft devices on every electric bicycle that you buy you're gonna be able to track your bicycle you're gonna be able to track your heart rate you're gonna be able to do all these things seamlessly just as part of your life so when you put a battery on a bike it changes everything about what it can do right now it's assist in the future will be many things there was this switch about eight years ago from old very heavy very polluting batteries to lithium-ion batteries and it it means that you can have a bicycle that is that you can lift you know that weighs between maybe 35 and 60 pounds that will take you anywhere from 25 to 100 miles right right and that's a game-changer right so last question for you what is like the biggest surprise when somebody comes in the store you know you sit him down so any bike and they come back for their first maintenance whatever that they say how this thing has really impacted their lives integrating activity into your life can change your life in all sorts of ways it can reduce stress the funniest one was this this guy came in they'd had this family that had a baby like six months ago guy comes in buys a bike and he comes back for his new tuna and he goes Karen my wife owes you a big one she's a much happier woman now people love their bikes what surprises them I think the most most often is just how many miles they're accruing on their odometer and that makes them excited from a health standpoint from an environmental standpoint and just from a joy in your daily life standpoint when we all live with a lot of stress at a lot of multitasking and taking 20 minutes on your bike and just having a great relaxing time is unbeatable right well thanks for a card take it a few minutes and and sharing the story and nothing but success for the store alright cheese Caron I'm Jeff you're watching the cube we're at the Royal Dutch gazelle bike event outside of Interbike in Reno Nevada thanks for watching [Music]

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the cube. We're in Reno, Nevada. Interbike is happening uh, this week in Reno. It's a big huge bike show. They have stuff up at the mountains. They've got stuff at the convention center. This is a small side of it put on by Royal Dutch gazelle, a bikes, 125 year old bike company that is all in on electric bikes. We came because this e-bikes story and part of the big motors, or excuse me, a little motors, big battery kind of last mile thing has really taken off. So we want to come get a better feel for what's going on and we're excited to have a dealer from Portland, one of the most bike friendly towns in all the U S he's wait, Greg. And he runs e-bike store weight. Great to see you. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. >>So you said you've had your store open for 10 years. 10 years. We were the first all I looked at short store to open in Portland. Actually it was part of an MBA project. I was in China taking a class, saw electric bikes for the first time, gas had just spiked and realize these are the most efficient form of motorized transportation known. Right. And nobody was doing it. And so next class I had wrote a business plan, launched it 10 years ago by putting 25,000 on a credit card and borrowed 10,000 from a friend and 10 years later we're still here. Love it, love the story. It's been, it's been a fun ride. So it's just, you know, you're the second retailer we've had on and they were also exclusive e-bikes in the Bay area. So you know, was the kind of existing bike infrastructure attitude, you know, industry just looking down to these only things where they just too weird to new Y, you know, kind of the early ones are e-bikes only. >>What's interesting, if you come to the market right now, what you see is you see some of the largest companies in the world putting a lot of resources, engineering resources, manufacturing resources, testing resources behind e-bikes. Back in the day, it wasn't such you, these manufacturers make them in the kind of, the customer was a test person. Right. And so it's been a very bumpy road to get to this point. But at this point they're very reliable. And so at first when caught, when shops were brought these things, they said, why would I ever carry that? Who can keep it running? You know? And now it's at the point where they're very easy to keep her on. They have log files, you plug it into the computer if you have a problem with it and it tells you, Oh error code, fix this one thing and off you're going again. >>But it hasn't always been such. And so the Rick older bike shops in particular avoided them because you make your money in a bike shop by having a customer for life and they couldn't keep them running. So they were nervous. They would not be able to keep the customer. Right. And there was a, it was wise, you know, now it's at the point where all the IBDs are coming in in Portland right now we have seven electrical only bike shops. All the big IBDs are carrying it with IBD, independent bike dealers. Okay. And on top of that, half the people that are looking for any bike will not buy from a traditional bike shop. It only come to an e-bike specialist. And so that's kind of our niche is the people and we really focus on that. So we try to have all of our, how we explain things, not to use big bike terms. >>We talk about how it would value the customer and use a whole different lingo than a traditional shop. Right. So it is a lot of different things going on with bikes. So one of them, right, is the speed, um, and then, and how it's classified. So yes, you know, there's the kind of the 20 mile an hour limit and we see that in the scooters and all these electric vehicles that keep it not a motor vehicle. And then they've got one here. I think it was 27 or 28 miles across three class three. So the laws seem to be kind of trying to catch up, like how do we classify these things? Are they bikes? Are they allowed on the bike path? Are they not allowed on the bike? Pass the hop. It's funny you bring that up tonight. Evolve. Well, it's funny you bring that up today because just today by Portland, which is one of the biggest bike blogs in the nation, um, came out with an article saying they were relatively in the fine print of or Portland code, my city's code and found out you can't ride your bike on the city paths and the city parks, and I didn't know this, I've been in business 10 years, but the very fine print and under dissertation you can't do it. >>Um, so it is, it's a gray space. Um, the 20th mile an hour bikes. Well it seems crazy fast when you and I are standing here. When you're on a road and there is a backup of cars behind you, where's the 20 mile an hour speed limit and they're driving 25 right. You know, it feels kind of safer to be able to go 25 with them and not hold them up and be able to get away from the door and, and zone. We're in a car doesn't go over to the store and you by taking the lane it feels much safer. So I actually, you know, I ride a class one most of the time but I, I do like riding class three bikes. Right. Just curious in terms of of the change of experience on an E bike versus a regular bike, some of the customers that you have, how is it fundamentally different? >>Cause I, you know I came to here today thing and this was really a last mile play. It's not a last mile play at all. For us, about 35% of our customers, their e-bike is their main mode of transportation. It is their car. It is how they get around and about 20% historically from our shop having people with physical disabilities or limitations in some way, shape or form 20%, 20%. So it's people who can no longer make it up the Hill to their house. It's people who can't arrive at work sweaty. It's people with ms, people who are missing along, people who have CLPD, um, you name it. These are people who now can ride again and getting them active again. And so it's a whole different mindset. Um, historically the bike industry has really gone after kinda the elite athlete, right? And this is something different. >>It's people who have, may haven't written a bike for oftentimes 20 plus years, right. Are now able to get out and go on a Hill. And the most interesting thing, they did a study in Australia where they put on, they worked with psycho stupid, been injured and they hooked him up to exercise bikes in front of a video screen showing them as they're paddling down the road essentially. And they change the video to climb a Hill, but they didn't change the settings on the exercise bike. They're sitting on the cyclist reported a higher level of pain when the visual show them climbing the Hill. So e-bikes do the exact reverse of that. And you're actually rewiring your brain so that bikes don't add pain and you can get where you need to go easily and efficiently. Right. So it's their primary, their primary methods. So you talked about the connectivity, um, you know, an app, integrated experience with all these devices we see over and over. >>So how has that changed your experience? Are you, is it, is it app for the consumer in terms of they're keeping track of their miles? Is it just for you and the maintenance or how's the integration of an app working through different ways for the app? So there's a mechanics app, we can plug it in and see the error codes. And that's important because being back in the day, someone will come in and say, I wrote this thing at mile 25 it cut out and stopped working. So after work, you know, or we go out and ride 25 miles and try to see if we could recreate the issue. And it was a pain. Now wait, you just told me it wasn't a pain to ride 25 buses. This is back in the day. It was a pain to try falls off. Intermittent issues are the bane of our existence. >>Yes, yes. But the uh, having a log file, we just plug it in and says, Oh, it cut out because of this error code, you know, and boom. Okay. Replaced the speed sensor. Good. You're back up and rolling. Right. Especially with people who commute. They don't want to leave their bike in the shop. They want ready within 24 hours or less. And so it's gotta be turned right. And so it's a whole different form of mechanics and a whole different level of support from the bike dealer. And that's why we choose the bike lines we choose like gazelle. Right. Who support their products very well. So it's pretty interesting that you said, you know, we talked about the scooter space and one wheels and all that fun stuff. So many deals, companies were started with Kickstarter. It's amazing to me how many kind of Kickstarter projects actually turned into real companies. >>Boosted future motion being a couple of my favorites. Future motion. Actually the design behind it was the guy who first invented the cell and unicycle unicycles Daniel Wood, he's actually from clock, I remember from Clackamas right across the river from Portland. And so I tried as original version of the self-balancing unicycle, which they made their first one wheels from and that, you know, it's come a long way and there's the one wheel, but it's been fascinating progression to watch him write and bring that out too. But that's very different than 125 year old Dutch company that's been making Mike making these bikes for a hundred plus years. Really? It's funny, we have, I think there's seven models here that they're showing today. I asked the exact guys how many regular bikes models they have and they're like one. Yeah. So, so they're all in. I mean this is significant. >>You think about some of the biggest companies in the world market cap. Bosch has always worn the top five or 10 market companies in the world. They make the largest set of best selling system in the United States and in Europe. Right? And they're behind it. They have millions of lithium batteries and people's homes already through their power tool division. They're the kind of engineering they're bringing is staggering and it's been really fun to be part of an industry that has been so nascent and yet just boom. Right. You just comes up with fright before you write for your eyes. Okay, so I got to ask you about the, whether you're from Portland, Portland rains a lot in, in, in Holland. How does the rain impact these things? Obviously you just send us their primary vehicle. Is it, is it more dangerous? Is there more spray? >>Is it, is it a factor? Not a factor. This is where the lines you carry make a huge difference. So when you, if you carry it, if you buy one off the internet that hasn't been product tested, you are the product tester. If you buy one like this, they literally have like a saltwater steam bath. They put the bikes in for weeks to stimulate Marine corrosion. They have hydraulic machines that the tar out of them. And so when you get a product, it just works. Um, and so we've had a, we had a Bosch system go completely underwater. Now, I'm not saying this is going to happen for everybody's experience. We had a guy literally put the bike in a river. He went one way. The bike went another, not on purpose, not on purpose. It was underwater for a few minutes. Right? Right. At work and rode home. >>And about a week later it made some noises and we told Bosch what happened, it was not a warranty issue with it was a collision. And Bosch said, you know, we haven't had enough warranty claims. You have some extra motors, we're going to send you a new one. And the guy said, it uses daily commuter. Right? Um, and it works great. Right? So, so w rain does not affect them, but it really depends on the model you have and how much product testing and how much engineering has gone in behind it to make sure you have the experience. Cause lithium and water are not generally friends. No. So, so just, I'll give you the last word. When you talk to people that are new to the space, maybe they just stumbled into the store, they heard about these e-bike things. What's kind of the biggest surprise that you see time and time again when people get one of these things and bring it home. >>Number one is that it rides like a bike. You can just go further. Um, th how well integrated they are. Um, on average the Baker's written 75% more than a traditional bike, 75% more, 75% more. Um, on average you can go about, well, the average speed wise on it. Um, I just study on this today. You know, you can increase your time by an average cycles average 11 miles an hour average e-bike average is about 13 to 1415 around there. And I forget the exact number. So I'm giving a bit of a gray area there. A little bit faster. Yeah. And so it gets you where you're going faster with less sweat. Right. We'll wake. Thanks for, uh, for taking a minute. What a, it's a, it's a cool story. And you know, Portland obviously is leading the charge in this, in this whole transformation. It's been a fun place to be and our customers are just awesome and no two ways about it. Super. Well, thanks again. He's waking. Jeff, you're watching the cube. We're at the Royal Dutch gazelle bike event at Interbike. Thanks for watching. Thank you.

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff, Rick here with the cube Worthen Nevada museum of art in Reno, Nevada for the Interbike show. Just happening down the street at the convention center. But we're actually at a side of it put on by Royal Dutch, a gazelle bikes, 125 year old, a bike company who is all in on electric bikes. We wanted to come in, see what's going on, really how the e-bike phenomenon is kind of intermingling with all these alternative scooters and, and all these alternative ways of getting around cities especially and, and get a feel for it. So we're excited to have a retailer who's been in the business for a long time. He's Davey oil. He is a founder a and, and cone or of GNO family. Cyclery David. Great. See you. Thanks. It's really happy to be here. Yeah. So first off, uh, just impressions of this event tonight. Um, cause I was rolling eyes. There's six or seven new bikes out here tonight. What do you think? >>It's very exciting because that was an extremely high quality brand of electric bicycle. And like you said, they have a uh, like a very long history in, in bicycle design. Right. And what they're doing now is they're, they're riding this wave of new technology that's coming through e-bikes and it's phenomenal. It's so funny cause >>some of these things I was talking about earlier, you know, so many Kickstarters, right, that have started and actually a lot of the companies have been pretty successful on the Kickstarter basis, but this is an old line company. They'd been making these things, I think I heard earlier, they're still making them at the same factory that they've been making them for 125 years. And surprisingly to me a third of this year's bike sales will be eBikes. So clearly there's something going on here. Yeah, there is that. What do you think in terms of the adoption Seattle, cause what I've heard as well is that the U S is about 10 years behind >>and Kennedy bike adoption. Yeah. I think that's probably the case in Seattle. We're very fortunate that there are a lot of factors at play that are, that are driving your bike adoption a happening a little faster than it is in some other parts of the country. But I think that all around the country and in cities and suburbs and also in rural areas, people are gonna find that adding an electric mobility to your bicycle, it takes away the barriers to cycling that so many people experienced that are totally rational. Like when I arrived at my destination, I don't want to be sweaty or I want to be able to use a bicycle, but I want to be able to carry more things or my children. Right. And when you add the mobility to your bicycle, those kind of barriers are just eliminated. You can see you're still getting exercise, but you can choose to make the bicycle ride more of what you'd expect from other forms of transportation, which is convenient and not sweaty and difficult. >>So how many of your customers aren't really bicyclists that that they're coming at this as a, as kind of a new opportunity? Maybe they just, they cycled before, but they're not kind of hardcore cyclists. You see this as the right foot. What's amazing to me is you have all these form factors, but this is a form factor that people are very familiar with and that's where I think there's a real opportunity bike that's not the same as scooters and some of these other things. Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, what we experience is that probably two thirds of our customers don't previously identified themselves as bicyclists. Um, they're probably somewhat friendly with the idea bicycles so they wouldn't have walked into a bicycle store. But what we see is that that transformation that happens to people when they adopt cycling as a, as a major part of their life and a major part of their transportation that still occurs, but it occurs all at once when they leapfrog over so many of these barriers and just have the opportunity to use a bicycle so much more than they would have otherwise. And the same thing happens to people who are already interested in cycling. People who only ride recreationally often find that with the addition of any bike into their life, they can use a bicycle for many, many, or most of their transportation needs, uh, over the course of their life. And that's profound, right. Transforms people. >>So there's a lot of special kind of characteristics of Seattle. Yeah. Obviously the weather is not great. Of course it's not great in, in Holland either. And they got a lot of bikes. They're got Hills and bridges and some nasty traffic. Not that everybody else does them, Massey traveling, but Seattle's got some crazy traffic. So you guys are seeing not only the adoption of the bikes for commuting and for fun and all those things, but you're selling a lot of cargo bikes for commercial purposes in this tight urban center. So I wonder if you can give us a little bit more color on how you're seeing the penetration in cargo bikes. Sure. >>Well, I think that cargo bikes when used for like freight purposes and delivery purposes and enterprise purposes in general, they benefit from the same things that bicyclists benefit from in urban environments in general, which is just greater mobility, freedom from the restrictions of traffic. I'm not trying to say that bicycles aren't on the road and that they don't sometimes find themselves behind a long line of stopped cars, but we have so much more flexibility in those situations and we can park safely and reasonably on a sidewalk. And so, so many things that happen, uh, that people suffer through due to congestion or alleviated when they're riding a bicycle in general. And business has experienced that when they use them for freight for sure. >>And it's not just a cargo bike, it's any cargo bikes. So now I've got the superhuman skills so I can, I can carry that load. I can replace a truck. I mean we have, we have bicycles in operation in Seattle for some, some of our customers use that. Our daily carrying 400 500 pounds of weight in there and they're traveling, you know, 60 70 miles in a day. Right. So how are you seeing the integration of the eBikes with the regular bikes, the hardcore bikers, the recreational bikers, and then of course you've got the slow move in pedestrians, right? And the, the dangerous stuff occurs when you've got all these disparity in, in, in velocity. And it's going to be interesting to see kind of how the regs kind of catch up and eventually probably, you know, discriminate. So these PO, these paths are for, you know, 20 miles or more of these paths are for, you know, 10 miles an hour or less. So how are you seeing that kind of work itself out in the streets of the city? Cause absolutely get a little rough sometimes out there. I think it has the potential to get a little rough. I think that honestly, um, yeah, >>the situation, the opportunities for conflict between pedestrians and electric bicyclists is not an issue or not any more significant than the opportunities for conflict between pedestrians and conventional bicyclists. I think that while an electric bicycle can travel up to 20 miles an hour or in some cases faster, they don't ordinarily travel that fast. That's a peak speed. Um, and so I don't really think that sidewalks are being menaced by electric bicyclists. I don't think that's really occurring, although I do think that the kind of regulations that you're talking about that classify type II bikes into types so that we can then, um, uh, empower people who have jurisdiction over different pieces of infrastructure to, um, to determine for themselves and for their users what bikes are allowed in which ones are, are, are forbidden, um, or restricted. I think that's really positive. Right? I think it's extremely important that we define what these vehicle types are because of course there are some vehicles which are more appropriate for some environments than others. >>Right. But I think the real thing is that bicyclists and III bicyclists are not the enemy of pedestrians. I think that together we're all making smart choices and we're in the safe spot. And I think that if it feels like there's too many bicycles on the sidewalk in your town, it's probably because you haven't made any room for bicyclists in the streets of your town. Right. And I think we all need to work together to make cycling a safe and viable option across all of our communities that will help congestion when we remove people from cars, we improve traffic for everybody. >>Right, right. And bikes should not be on sidewalks, period. Right. That's not really not the bike, not the bike place unless the, the street is just so, so tragic. >>I think. I think that if you're talking about it in a situational like daily life active, uh, situation, I think, um, there are a lot of conditions where bicycles are going to be on the sidewalk and there are many of them that I think are reasonable. I think it's totally reasonable to decide as a city we don't want bicycles, bicycles to primarily ride on sidewalks or when bicycles are on sidewalks. I don't think there's any city in the country that allows bicycles on sidewalks. It doesn't also stipulate as long as they're traveling safely. So if somebody has a problem with how somebody is behaving, that's still a problem either way. >>Right, right, right. So I'm just curious to get your take as, as you've seen this market evolved. Again, we've got big players involved. Bosch is doing all the, all the electronics on these bikes. Yeah. Capacity's got bigger on the battery speeds have gotten better. Dependability. Yeah. So how are you seeing kind of the evolution of the eBikes impacting the total market for bikes? Again, I can't believe that that gives out. Guys said they're going to sell a third of their bikes. Are e-bikes. Yeah. You see in the same thing in your business. >>Yeah. Well, I mean my business is focused on eBikes. Um, but what I will say is that I think that um, one of the challenges for bicycle advocacy and bicycle marketing and retail has always been a how to appeal to people who are somewhat friendly towards bicycling but aren't doing it that called interested but concerned. And it, I think it turns out that e-bikes are the key here, that we can help transform people from someone who is friendly towards bicycling to somebody who uses a bicycle as a big part of their life simply by making bicycles easier. And as you identified right now, finally, we're at a point in the development of this technology where the bikes really are reliable as a vehicle. And that's significant, right? It's not just a hobbyist activity at this point. These are, these are legitimate, uh, reliable vehicles >>in transportation. I mean, legitimate trans, it's not just your last mile vehicle anyway. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at our shop at least we're talking about people who are, who have given up a car. Um, almost almost every one of our customers who's getting an electric cargo bag is doing this as part of their family transportation budget. And that includes driving less or removing a car from their life, right? And that could only work if the e-bike was at least as reliable as driving lists. And so maybe a flat tire is still a pretty annoying problem, but that should be the worst problem. Right? And I think we're finally there in terms of the quality of technology that's out >>and now it's only upward. We're like at year zero now. Right. Amazing. Even with the weather and the Hills and everything else, it's profound, man. It's really, and then it's a, it's a cultural shift, so it's just, it's just spreads across our community. Right. One person who inspires somebody else and inspires somebody else. Well, David, thanks for taking a few minutes and sharing your story. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right. He's Dave young. Jeff. We are at Interbike Reno, but we're actually at the gazelle, uh, event looking at their e-bikes and they're really, really cool. Thanks for watching. Catch you next time.