(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE, everyone. This is Lisa Martin, live in Miami. I'm at IFS Unleashed 2022. We've had a great day talking with IFS executives, customers, partners. We're going to be having another great conversation next. I have two guests here on set with me, Sarah Nicastro joins us, the founder Future Field of Service, and VP of Customer Engagement at IFS, and Roel Rentmeeters, the VP of Digital Transformation at Munters. Welcome to the program. >> Thanks for having us. >> So, here we are surrounded by about 1500 or so people. The buzz in here is, people are ready to come back. They're just ready to come back, have these conversations with their peers and their colleagues at IFS which is great to to see and to feel, right? Sarah, let's start with you, your role, founder Future of Field Service. Talk to me about what that is and what the genesis was. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, a lot of what I do is actually what you're doing and interviewing folks, creating content. I was in the media before I joined IFS, almost four years ago in service specifically. So service, you've probably heard a lot today about moment of service. Service is a huge focus area for IFS and Future of field service is thought leadership resource that IFS allowed me to come on board and create, not only for customers, but for the broader service community. So, I write articles related to service trends host a weekly podcast. Over time with the company as I got to engage with more and more customers, and there's so much value in them connecting with one another. You see that here, like you said, people are so excited to be together, but fostering those connections within our customer community, allowing them to get to know each other, share our best practices, as well as making sure that we're bringing the voice of customer always into IFS. So, that's what I do on the customer engagement side. >> I love it. The voice of the customer is invaluable. And of all the conversations that I've had today, it's so clear how strategic and strong the relationships are that IFS has with its customers. Roel, talk to us a little bit about Munters, you're a customer and talk about the relationship that you've established with IFS and the team. >> Yeah, with pleasure. So, Munters is a Swedish company. We are a global leader in sustainable air treatment solutions. So, think about deunification, cooling, but in big industrial applications. I am the VP of digital services or digital transformation. Prior to that, until very recently, I was a VP of services. And we started that standardization roadmap five years ago, six years ago. We work very closely with IFS. We're implementing a new apps version as an ERP for Munters. And so that servitization moving from additional services to outcome-based services has the digital aspect. So, my move is a natural flow with that. >> How long has Munters been in business? >> It's founded in 1955. >> Oh wow. >> It's a Swedish company, quite traditional still in their manufacturing and delivering services. But the shift is there. >> Talk to me about that shift and how IFS has been an accelerant of that. It's challenging for legacy businesses to evolve and transform. Obviously in this day and age, you don't have a choice. But talk to us about the digital transformation of the business so that you can deliver more to your customers and how IFS has been foundational to that. >> Yeah. So, so that servitization roadmap eventually it is something that our customers want. We captured it. Customers want remote management, they want connected devices, but that alone will not bring you servitization. You need to have your strong foundation in the back with a good process, a good system that can support that process. And that's where IFS came in for us. We are a long time IFS user, so, we are on the eighth version in Europe of app eight, but we are doing a new implementation to 10, and this way, a global implementation with clean data that needs to be cleansed, new processes, end to end processes. And so IFS is our partner to support us in this roadmap along with other developments and things IFS is doing, think about remote management, something we've implemented during COVID and that perfectly aligns with that road towards servitization. >> Yeah, I was just going to say Roel and I were on a panel discussion earlier today with two other customers, and all different industries, but when we said what is the focus of the business they all said servitization or outcomes based services. Me too. Me too, me too, right? So, it's a journey that a lot of our customers are on looking at how they differentiate through service, how they move away from being a provider of products or things, and someone that their customers can trust to provide peace of mind, uptime, outcomes, experiences, things like that. >> It's all about outcomes. And we're hearing more and more about servitization. It's not a new concept. The term is somewhat newer to some of these conversations. But we're seeing a lot of businesses especially in light of COVID pivot in that direction and they need a partner that they can trust like IFS to help them get there. Sarah, let's talk more about customer engagement. What are some of the different facets that need to be considered? You guys, IFS has expertise in five verticals which I love the vertical specialization there. But talk to us about some of those facets that make customer engagement successful. >> Yeah, so I think you're absolutely right. So we have our five industries that we focus heavily on, and that is where most of our customer engagement has and does reside, right? So each industry has its own group of customers that get together weigh in on how IFS is innovating, what they need from the company and their respective industries, etc. What I'm focused on, and probably a lot of it is just based on my background. I mentioned on the panel there was a lot of head nods and me-too, me-too. That's because there are also elements of innovation and change that are happening across industries that our customers care a lot about. So what I'm working on at the moment is introducing sort of another layer of customer engagement where we're also fostering those cross industry more innovation-centered conversations so that we can not only better understand what our customers are focused on there, but also allow them to connect and learn from one another. >> I love that. There's so much power and potential. Roel, talk to us about that from your perspective, the opportunity. You mentioned, Sarah, the panel that you guys were on earlier today, but talk to us about the opportunity that IFS is giving you to engage with your peers in other industries, but also for you to learn and get takeaways from them. That's got to be pretty unique from a technology partner perspective. >> That definitely is. And the Future of Field Service, it's one of those four where I think we share so much knowledge, not just while we are sitting together and having our talks with Sarah, also individually we connected with each other. Companies that are also Swedish based like Tetra Park, etc, So, there's kind of bonds that we can see. But it's true, we are learning from each other also because some are maybe a bit more advanced than others in this area. So we can learn, not just around how they do their processes, how they find technicians on the market which is very scarce today and very difficult. How do you retain them? But also, what are you experiencing during your implementation?? What is your partner that are... What are pitfalls that you have discovered since you were there? Would you go to cloud or would you still wait in APP 10? So we share that knowledge to each other and we learn a lot from each other, which is something I like. I also like the fact that IFS is a very customer-centric company, as we mentioned before, the fact that you have changed advisory boards where the voice of the customer is going to be important, where you can feed back or IFS feeds back trends and things they see going forward where we can also say, but, "Would it not be better that the user interface for a technician who just wants to do this and this and this is simpler than what you offer today. So, it's a win-win situation for both of us. >> It's a collaboration. >> Yeah, I like it. >> It should be. And I'm really passionate about what what I do, but to be on sessions with a group of customers and have them say, "I'm going to call you later because I want to know more about how you did this, or can we connect?" And to see those connections happen, it's great to have events like this and they have been on hold, but ideally happen every year or year and a half. But to keep those connections going continuously is really important to me. >> Well, the innovations that IFS can span from just those connections alone is infinite, right? I mean, your mind can wander with all of the different things that can come out of that. Sarah, talk a little bit more about... We often talk about the voice of the customer. It's incredibly powerful. I always think it's the most objective opinion, but one of the things that I think I was learning earlier today is it's not just about the voice of the customer. It's taking the insights from those customers into the company, into the development of the technologies to then be able to fuel customer-driven changes. Talk about that as a one of the focuses that IFS has. >> Yeah, I mean, not only we, but our customers are talking a lot more about outside in innovation, right? An inside out model does not work today. And so, that's really what the focus is. And there's so many parallels between what we're focused on, what our customers are focused on, right? And so, I think voice of the customer, it's always good to have a quantitative measure where you're doing surveys, you're understanding what is your NBS, how do your customers feel, are they satisfied, etc? But it's also very important to have more of a qualitative or more intimate forum to have those deeper discussions to really get into some of the details that, to Roel's point, can then influence. Okay, well, we haven't quite thought about it that way. The more you have those discussions, the more you can notice what those common challenges or opportunities are so that when you are putting effort into our own evolution and modernization, we can make sure that's geared toward the the impact our customers need. >> Right. That's critical. It's all about outcomes. Customers need to move faster and faster and faster these days, right? I think one of the things that was in very short supply during the pandemic was patients and tolerance. And I don't know that it's going to come back. I think we are... >> I've never had it personally. (Lisa and Sarah laugh) >> I had a little bit of it, but I think the consumerization of tech, we expect these experiences in our professional world to be as easy as going on Amazon and buying whatever we want. We also want the brands to know enough about us where it's not creepy, but make it personalized to some degree, have that intimate relationship with me that's good enough to get me the outcome that I'm looking for. We all have that in our personal lives, but it flows into our business lives as well. So you're dealing with customers that probably have gotten more demanding as a result. >> I think you're absolutely right. And at the same time, not all customers want to go into that entire outcome-based direction. So, but what I like about it is, if you can do outcome-based service, you can also accommodate those customers and the service they want without having the outcome, think about as a lay based service or those kind of things because your organization and your systems and your processes are ready to do this. It's actually part of it. So, that voice of the customer is for us important enough to know it's not one thing that we should create. It's not one service offering. It depends on what kind of customers you are. Look at data center customers for which we do a lot of cooling, they are scared to hell that that thing would be brought down because it would endanger their entire data center. They don't want to connect, but they want to have certain data that they can see inside their environment and that they can pass on to us. So, you need to accommodate all those things. So, your voice of customer is extremely important. >> You mentioned, Lisa, that we've been talking about servitization for quite a while, right? And it's because it involves so many layers of change within a business, right? And so, it's really more of a journey, a continuum. And to Roel's point, companies need to be able to address what their customers need at different points. Some may want to remain on a CapEx model and some may want to move to an outcomes model. We also need to be able to address what our customers need on a bit of a continuum, which is what we're working toward with IFS cloud, is being able to meet people where they are and give them what they need that can grow with them as they grow with their customers. >> And that's absolutely essential for a good partnership and that makes for those moments of service to happen at the end of the day to that end user, whether it's an airline or whatnot. IFS cloud, and we have a couple minutes left, but IFS cloud was launched only 18 months ago and I was in the keynote this morning and Christian was actually here on the show with me too, 400,000 plus users in 18 months, that's growing pretty quickly. What's been some of the feedback from the customer side, and we'll get your perspective, Roel, as well? >> I don't have cloud yet, so we are implementing APP 10. Why? Because we signed up with IFS two years ago. At that time it was not yet there. And we think now let's first do this and then we can move to cloud. But it's not that we will not move to cloud. It's something we will do eventually. I like the fact that IFS thinks of having everything in one rather than having the different pieces, which made it also for me personally very difficult to make a choice. Do I go for the standalone version of the field service, or do I take the one that is embedded in the ERP? What is the difference between those two? Is there functionalities that I'm going to miss if I choose one or the other? So, the fact that it will be all together, it makes it easier also to add on later on like customer service or the customer ports or all those kind of things. So, I like that concept. So, I'm very curious to hear from peers here that have done the implementation like the Tetre Pack, how's it going? What is their feeling? I'm very curious. >> Well, I imagine at this kind of event, you're going to learn just that. >> Yep. (Lisa chuckles) >> You were going to say something, Sarah. >> Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it's a really good point that you mentioned with all of the things we're used to in our consumer lives, we want simplicity. Having complex technology stacks is at odds with delivering simplicity to the customer, right? And so, so that's the goal really. I was just in a session before this with Yotin who's on the journey to Evergreen with IFS cloud. And it's really the idea of eliminating some of the manual effort that exists in maintaining a system, making it a lot easier and faster for organizations to adopt innovation that comes out and give them more agility really in focusing on meeting their customer needs instead of focusing on managing their technology. >> Absolutely. Nobody wants to be doing that. Thank you so much, both of you for joining me on the program today, talking about what IFS is doing, the Future of Field Service, how you're partnering, truly partnering with customers. It's impressive. We talked to a lot of vendors and a lot of customers and I definitely am seeing some unique differentiation here. So, thank you so much for sharing your insights with me today. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. For my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching theCUBE live from Miami. We've been here all day. We thank you so much for watching. We will see you next time. (soft music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by AWS Global Partner Network. Right. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 were virtual this year. We're not in person. We have to do it remote but the Cuba's virtual And I'm John for your host here with Cube Virtual next guest, Sarah Cooper, who is the general manager of the i o T Solutions with a W s. Sarah. Great to see you. Eso you last year in person. In real life, now we're remote. But thanks for coming on. Thank you. >>Thanks, John. Always good to be on the Cube and great to see you again. I don't know how many years it's been from our initial meeting, but it's been a few. >>Well, we gotta we gotta cube search engine. You were on in 2016, but we saw each other last year on when we're riffing on the i o t. News. A lot of great stuff. I mean, from Speed Racer all the way down through all the industrial stuff. Even more this year. But two things that jumped out at me this year. War is the carrier keynote and also the BlackBerry kind of automotive thing again speaks to kind of two megatrends. Obviously, automotive will get to a second, but the carrier announcement was really interesting. You guys did this thing and I was so impressed with the cold chain, uh, product. It was the connected cold chain. It was called, Um, this is where the carrier, which is known for air conditioning This is critical I o t devices that stays with the vaccines involved. Take a minute to explain what the cold chain connected cold chain project waas. >>Yeah, absolutely. So. So we worked closely and are working closely with Carrier on on a product called Links Now Cold chain. Um, as Dave Gitlin, the CEO of Carrier, described in Andy's keynote eyes about moving perishable goods, things that need certain temperature ranges from point A to point B and that usually it sounds simple. Uh, that's not quite so simple. It's usually you know, least you know, 5 to 25 hops, sometimes as much as 40. Andi zehr these air partial goods This is food. This is medicines. This is vaccines. Very hot topic at the moment. And today you know you're moving between ships and those big tractor trailers, and you've got warehouses with refrigeration units and you've got retail grocery stores with refrigeration units thes air, all different data sources that are owned by different. You know, members of that supply chain that value chain and to end. And so what links does is it pulls the data from all of the curier equipment and then pulls that data and looks across all of this information, using things like machine learning to draw inference and relationship and then be allows us to be able to make smart recommendations on things like routes. Or, if you know, a particular produce might need to stop before its original event to make sure it's got long shelf life. It allows us basically to provide that transparency and toe end, which is so difficult because of the number of players. And it's in part due to curious breath of products. And then, you know, with AWS, we're bringing the digital technology side. We got the i o t. The M l. A lot of big data processing pieces, eh? So we're really excited about that. I have to say It's one of the easiest projects to hire for when you talk about making sure that we're able to reduce food waste from the current 30 to 40% or that we're working on making sure that vaccines are efficacious by the time that they get a vaccination site, engineers sign up pretty quickly. >>You know the cliche. You know, mission driven companies. They're always kind of like people love the work for mission driven companies. In this case, you have a project and group that literally is changing the world. If you think about just the life savings on the on the on the vaccine side, that's obvious. We all can relate to that now with covert on full display. But just in terms of energy consumption, on food, ways to perishables if you get the costs involved to society, hunger around the world. Uh, just >>food is >>just wasted, and there are people starving, right? So when you start looking at this as an instrumentation problem, right, it gets really interesting. So you mentioned supply chain value chain. This is I o t potentially, even Blockchain again. This is a key change. The world area. You guys have a multi year deal with Carrier, So validation. What does that mean? Specifically, you guys gonna provide cloud services? Um, what's that all mean? >>Yeah. So we were bringing our engineering talent as this carrier. This is a code development, so we're actually jointly developing together. They bring a lot of the domain expertise they bring, you know, years and years of experience in refrigeration, Um, and in, you know, track and trace of these products. And we bring engineers who have vast experience at scale in these kinds of inference, challenges and and data management and data quality. And so it's really kind of bringing the best of both worlds. And you see this happening more and more. I think in general, where you've got a company like AWS that has strong digital expertise and a history of product innovation, working with customers that are very innovative themselves, but typically have been innovative in in, you know, traditional hardware products and the two worlds coming together to make sure that we can really solve some of the big challenges that are facing our society today. And, um, again, you know, it's great to wake up in the morning and get to work on a project that has that kind of impact. >>Well, before we move on to the whole BlackBerry automotive thing, which is another whole fascinating thing share something that people might not know about this carrier project. That's important. Um, whether it's something anecdotal, something that you know, Um, that's important. What, what what's what's What else is there that's game changing that you think is important to point out? >>Yeah, you know, I don't know that when we first started working with Carrier on on scoping this project that I had really thought through all the different players that are touched by cold chain. Um, certainly we've got a number of them within Amazon with our our fulfillment technologies and our grocery stores. That that's logical. Um, you think about the shippers and people who are out, you know, um, farming. And you know, I mean, crabmeat is something that moves in these big refrigerated containers, but actually there's there are transportation companies. There's drivers of these big rigs that need to make sure that they're being that they have fuel consumption management. You've got customers, you know, really kind of throughout that piece, freight forwarders. And so really the breath of the people that are touched, not just you and I is consumers of of perishable goods and fruits and produce on DNA medicines, but also really, that full end to end ecosystem on that's That's both the exciting part from A from a business standpoint, but also the exciting part from the technology stand. >>Well, it's great work, and I applaud you for it's one of those things where foodways isn't just a supply chain impacts the rest of the world because you're more efficient. You could distribute food, toe other places where people are hungry and just its overall impact is huge trickle effect. So impact is huge. Okay, now let's talk about the automotive peace. Because last year we had on the Cube folks from BlackBerry and remember them came on like BlackBerry. Isn't that the phone that went extinct by the iPhone? No, no. There's a whole nother io ti automotive thing around. Ivy Ivy? Why intelligent vehicle data platform? You guys just announced a multiyear agreement with them to develop that product combined with some of the I O. T and machine learning. Could you take him in to explain what this relationship is. What does it mean? What does it mean for the industry? >>Yeah, it's It's similar to the carrier relationship. You know we are. We're engineering together. Um, in this instance Q and X, which is a division of BlackBerry, is in 175 million vehicles. I mean, just think about that. They're running under the covers, and they are. They are a safety security layer and a real time operating system. So you know, when you think about all of the products, really end end in Q and X isn't just in automotives. It's in nuclear power plants. It's in manufacturing automation. It's one of those products that that you probably benefit from, but you didn't know it. Um, and in the automotive space, it's the piece that manages the safety certified layers of data coming off of sensors in the car. And so, fundamentally, what we're doing with Ivy is we're up leveling that information today. If you think about a car, you've got 1500 suppliers that are all providing parts into that far, which means that different makes and models have different seats. Sensors to give you wait in the back, you know, seat as an example. And so if do you want to write an application that tries to determine if that weight in the back seat is your dog or not, my dog happens to be bothering me at the moment. Z. >>That's one of the benefits of working at home. You know? >>Absolutely. So we'll use him as an excuse here. But if you want to know if that's a dog on the back seat, um, being able Thio, then figure out the PC electric measurements and the algorithms, um means you have to know what sensors air in that back seat, which means you got to write essentially an application Pir sensor manufacturer for vehicle make and model That doesn't work so fundamentally What Ivy does, is it? It abstracts away the differences between the vendors and then it up levels information by using machine learning and analytics running in the car. To be able to allow a developer to say, you know, a P I. Is there a dog in the car like How simple is that? I don't have to figure out what the weight measurement is. I don't know. I have to know if there's cameras in the car or if there's some other way to know. If the dog I just need to ask, Is there dog in the car? And the A P. I, for my view, will tell you yes, No, or I don't know, you know, because sometimes there isn't the technology to know that. And then the application developer can then use that information to build delightful experiences, things that make your dog behave, hopefully, things that might help protect them on a hot day. Um, you know, in things where you know that if there's a child in the car, you don't play explicit lyrics. If they're fighting in the back seat, you make sure that the cartoons go off until they behave themselves and cartoons come back on. There are lots of in vehicle experiences that can be enabled by this as well as vehicle operations. So, you know, being able to do >>yeah and all that stuff. >>Yeah, Selective recalls making sure that Onley cars that are actually affected need to come in and making sure that that you know, that's that's quantified and that, you know, it is actually safe to drive to the point of recall. All of that could be done on a vehicle by vehicle basis. >>So are you competing with car companies now? >>No, fundamentally, the oe EMS are the Are the companies that that the car manufacturers are those that end up delivering this capability and they own the data. You know, this isn't something where BlackBerry or A W S owns the data the auto manufacturers dio so it's there platforms to make a delightful experience out of, um, we're just helping to make sure that that's as easy as possible and opening up. You know, the potential innovation so that it's, you know, it's certainly their developers internally. But if they want take advantage of the millions of AWS developers now, they could do that. >>Sarah, Great to have you on one of the things. I just want a final questions or final point. Let's get your reaction to Is that it seems to me with the cloud in this post covert scale error when you start to get into edge, um, you know, industrial I o t. You hear things like instrumentation supply chain, these air buzzwords, these air kind of characteristics all kind of in play. But the other observation is partnerships, arm or co engineering. Co development vibe. Is that just unique? Thio what you're doing? Or do you see this as kind of as a template for partnering? Because when you start to get these abstraction layers, the heavy lifting can be under the covers. You have this enablement model. What's your quick take on this? >>Yeah, I think we talk about undifferentiated heavy lifting, a lot of Amazon on defunding mentally. That's different for each industry. And he talked about that. His keynote. And so I think you know you'll see more and more co development and co engineering coming from from companies across when we have big technical challenges and these air complex problems to solve it takes a village >>awesome. Sarah Cooper Thanks for coming on GM of Iot. TIF Solutions A. The best to great success stories. The carrier and Blackberry, one Automotive with Black Braids operating system that powers the safety and for cars and, hopefully, future of application, development and carrier, with the cold connected chain delivering perishable goods, vaccines and food. Changing the game. That's a game changer. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks, John appreciate. Always good to see you. >>Okay. Cube coverage. Jump shot for your host. Stay with us from or coverage throughout the day and all next couple weeks. Thanks for watching. Yeah. Mhm.

>> Narrator: theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think, brought to you by IBM. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of IBM Think 2020, the digital experience. We've been covering Think since the beginning and this is the first year that they've gone to the virtual conference, obviously with the COVID situation. We're excited to have our next guest. She's Sarah Diamond, the Global Managing Director for Banking and Financial Markets for IBM. Sarah, great to see you. >> Thank you. >> Great, so, let's just jump into it. You've been dealing with financial services and financial markets for a long time. In getting ready for this interview, I stumbled across some old stuff you did in 2016, kind of talking about cloud adoption in financial services. But we all know financial services has special restrictions in terms of privacy and regulations, and making sure that stuff stays stable and fulfills the obligations, reporting obligations. But, there's so many great things that come from cloud in terms of speed of innovation, cost, and all these other things. You've been working in this space for a long time. There's some exciting work that you've been doing. How are you helping financial institutions leverage cloud in a better way? >> Yeah, it's a great place to start. As you say, financial services clients have been looking at the cloud for several years. But actually, it's interesting that notwithstanding the great focus on the opportunity presented by cloud, in terms of the agility of the architecture, speed, resiliency, and cost savings, are less than 10% of their workload has actually moved to the cloud. And that's because, as you say, there are very, very strict requirements over what workload can move to the cloud, as it relates to data privacy, security, et cetera. And so, as we looked at how much our clients were struggling to be able to move their workloads over to the cloud, we realized the need to come up with a financial services specific cloud. And we've been very fortunate to do that in conjunction with one of our main clients, Bank of America. And we will be launching the first Financial Services Cloud for the industry. >> Wow, that is wow. First, I'm shocked that you say only 10% of the workloads have made the conversion to the cloud in the current situation, which seems very, very low. >> Actually, I said less than 10%. >> Less than 10% not even 10%. >> Even less than that. >> So what are some of the specific attributes of the Financial Services Cloud that IBM's rolling out, that will enable them to move that number, hopefully well north of 10% in the not too distant future? >> Yeah, well I think the first place to start is secure and really at a enterprise grade level for financial services so that, the financial services can provide the level of security and resiliency that's needed as they run mission-critical systems for the world. Wrapped around that then, is being absolutely sure that the way the cloud is built meets all of the regulatory requirements as it relates to both risk analysis, and again, security. And we acquired, three years ago, Promontory, which is the preeminent regulatory advisory company for financial services. And one of the huge benefits of having Promontory in our portfolio is to be able to leverage their expertise to do this. And then there's things like making sure that the cloud will support a rich catalog of the ISVs and the SaaS providers that our clients want to be able to work with and that it dovetails seamlessly into other infrastructure services, whether it's VMware, Cloud native, Red Hat OpenShift, et cetera. >> I'm just curious there, to get your take on kind of the complexity of the regulatory environment, 'cause clearly just knowing the US regulations per se, very, very complicated in financial services. But you guys are dealing with global, multinationals, as well as banks established all around the world. >> Yeah. >> Just for the laymen, how much delta is there between the various regulations that either apply to a bank within a particular country, as well as when banks do business across a lot of countries, do they have to comply with every single regulatory infrastructure in the markets in which they serve? That's got to be a crazy mess >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely, they do. So they both have to comply with the regulator of their home country and they have to comply with the regulations in any other country that they do business. And whilst there's definitely a level of consistency across the regulations, they're not a single set of regulations. So it requires a great deal of knowledge, insight and preparation to make sure that they're going to remain compliant in every country in which they do business. >> A lot of boxes to check. >> Exactly. >> And again, that interview that I saw, it was 2016, we're now in 2020, right? So it's been four or five years. And what's interesting is, on kind of the pace on digital transformation is not super, super fast. But here we are with COVID-19. And COVID-19 has just been this light switch moment that nobody had time to prepare for. So whether it's working from home or we're participating here in a digital conference, Think is not a physical event like it's been in the past. So it's been this kind of light switch forcing function on a lot of things. As you look at your client base, within the financial services industry, what are some of the impacts that maybe people aren't thinking about, of COVID, on their ability to deliver their services? >> Yes, and I think there's two parts to your question, as I think of it. One is, which of the financial services clients were able to adapt most quickly to the requirements of being able to operate in essentially, the lockdown work from home environment imposed by COVID-19? And then the second part is, what are the waves that we see going forward for the industry? It's really interesting because clearly those clients that had moved already to a much more agile, hybrid environment were much more digital in their capabilities, had much better security around their data assets, were ones that were able to make the shift quickest. And those that were somewhat behind, lagged in those areas, are the ones that struggled, or took longer to make the shift. I think the shift has come, initially, all around how to move the predominant workforce to work from home. Most clients now, 70 or 80% or more of their workforce are working from home. And that's a huge shift for most of the banks, where notwithstanding the offshore work they were doing, still virtually all of their staff are onshore. So that was a huge effort. And with that, they needed both extra security, to make sure that there was not going to open up any security risks in doing it, capacity, because obviously capacity peaked. And then obviously just the tools and the knowhow to know how to work from home. So that was a huge piece. Those clients that had significant trading operations saw huge peaks and troughs in the trading, so you got this huge volatility around trading, as well as, of course, the huge volatility around the results. And then I think a third category of this, is just how to continue to service their clients, their customers, in a remote way. And when you look at banks, for example in Italy, some of the Italian banks have closed down up to 70% of their branches, again, to create the security that was needed to withstand the epidemic. In the U.S., you hear numbers more in the 50% range. But that's a huge shift in terms of how to support your customers in a continuous way. And just with that, as you might imagine, huge peaks in call center volumes, and challenges in terms of how to deal with that. And these are all things, as you pointed out earlier, that bring intense focus on the ability to leverage digital technology and be able to support both the employees and the customers in a seamless, secure way, online. >> There's so many, kind of facets to this, if you will, and the one that strikes me, as you're talking about the work from home, we've had a lot of work from home conversations over the last several weeks, right? A big piece of this is enabling your workforce to do that. What strikes me, the difference about banks and financial institutions is, not only do they have digital security, but they have a lot of physical security. And physical security of assets that is not so easily digitized. So, where are some of those kind of physical operations, literally like moving cash around and taking deposits and some of those things? Are they just trying to consolidate those operations to fewer points of presence? How are they kind of managing that piece of it? >> Yeah, and you bring to mind a great story that one of our managing directors who supports a client in Brazil just shared with us, because this client is a huge retail bank in Brazil, and supports the Brazilian population throughout the country. And as you say, a lot of the movement of assets, cash, is still physical. So indeed, they had to put together teams that would continue to be able to take cash to different sites, up and down the Amazon River, not withstanding all the concerns about moving around in the COVID environment. So, what you've seen is that mission-critical needs are still obviously having to be done by teams, physically onsite or moving around. And typically the way the banks have bene able to do that is they've created two or three teams that basically mirror or parallel each other, so that if one team got infected, then the second or the third team could fill in. So they've created this redundancy, or this contingency, in their team structures. >> Yeah, it's really, yeah, a unique challenge 'cause that money's got to move, right? It's got to go. Again, back to the digital transformation, one of the themes that we've seen happen over the course of time is kind of going to your point, kind of from a, where can we use cloud, to kind of a cloud first. And I guess financial services is lagging that a little bit. We saw it kind of in mobile applications too, where mobile was an afterthought, and now for a lot of people, it's mobile first. And I think in a lot of underdeveloped countries, the phone, a mobile phone, is the primary conduit to a lot of services like banking and those things. So I wonder now, as you look forward and as we get used to this behavior, and as systems and infrastructure get put in place over time to support the work from home, the lockdown, and just less people moving around, how do you see that changing? Will it get to, from a workload point of view, kind of a work from home first, versus work from home is kind of this adjunct. Do you see that taking hold over the course of several months of being in this new normal? How do you think it's going to reshape the financial services industry, as we get out of this over some period of months, or maybe many, many months? >> Yes, and I think again, you're pointing to two aspects of this. So first is, how banks will continue to support their customers. And as we've just said, many customers have started to use much more online, digital banking than they had before. And so what we expect to see is now an acceleration of the banks moving to digital online services for their clients. Because there's been a breakthrough here, which has been forced by the circumstances, and suddenly, the opportunities are opened up and they'll become even more competitive advantages to be able to do that. Both because of the client experience, but also because of the cost implications and the speed and agility to market around that. And then the other part is always the employees. So it's the clients and it's the employees. And we're already hearing our clients are engaged in conversations with our client, where they're saying, "Look, even when this epidemic passes and we'll feel confident about asking our employees to return to the office, we no longer want to just go back to where we were." And there's a lot of work already being done to look at different job categories to decide which ones can be done remotely, just as effectively as onsite, and which ones will need to be onsite or in front of the client. So to your point, I think this is going to really, really, accelerate the digitization of the industry on all fronts. >> Yeah, it is kind of this new way to think of it, not can it go remote, but why can't it not? >> Exactly. >> And I can't help but think of the infrastructure for someone in financial services in terms of the VPNs and the security on those systems, and I'm sure there's all kinds of crazy firewalls and stuff within a bank's physical four walls that is just not that easy to pick that up and go stick it in somebody's house, especially with no real opportunity for planning, or resourcing, or rolling out. And then we've seen the same thing, as you mentioned, in the call centers, which are another huge piece of the customer service experience, which again, all those people are now moved out. And we're hearing those same things, how much of them can stay moved out and stay remote, and what will it take to support them to give that same level of service. >> Well, and also, how much can move to actual automation, right? So one of the things we've seen, given not just the move of the call center employees to work remotely but even more importantly, I think given the volume of call center inquiries that have been occurring, is much more eagerness to start to use automation in that. So for example, our Watson capabilities that have been used in call centers. For some years now, there's been a big uptick in the demand of using those in the call centers so that you're agents can focus on the truly complex questions and the routing questions can get answered digitally. >> Right. >> I think the other point that we should bring out in this conversation is just the financial impact on the industry, right? We've already seen huge degradation in terms of the likelihood of huge credit exposure and what's that going to mean for the financial services industry. Loss of revenue today, given the market challenges. And so, we are seeing right now, huge focus on how to take cost out of the industry dramatically. And you're hearing banks talk about needing to take up to 40% of their cost structure down, which is going to require, yet again, a massive shift in terms of how the banks operate. >> Wow, 40%, that is a huge number. But it also just begs the question for those who got ahead of the curve a little bit. They're the ones that are going to come out of this. I would assume, in a much better position because banks, we think of them as the old state institution with the fancy building down on the corner, downtown, with the columns. But in fact, they've been at the cutting edge of technology for a really long time. It's such a hyper-competitive market, the margins are so thin, the benefits, the speed and better customer experience are so huge when you're basically trading in the commodity of cash and trying to build all those services around it. So do you expect it'll really kind of a shake out between those that were already kind of on the bandwagon a little bit and really driving forward on their digital transformation, versus the laggers that just were kind of slow to the party and now suddenly, the door to the party is closing? >> Yeah, I think you'll see some of that. I also think you're going to see more, if you like, model shift. So, one of the things that has been a constant topic of conversation is, what are core competencies that banks should be in, and what are capabilities that the banks no longer need to provide? They may have provided in the past, but they no longer need to provide in the future. And, how can they leverage a broader ecosystem, right, to be able to tap into expertise that is maybe better elsewhere and doesn't need to be a core expertise of the bank? So, I think you'll see, yes, those banks that have been moved faster, have had bigger technology investment and have been able to move faster on the digital journey doing better coming out of this. I think, very importantly for the industry as a whole, you'll start to see even more of those shifts in terms of what are core competencies that the banks need to provide, versus where do they leverage an ecosystem to provide those capabilities or services for them. And again, some of the most innovative banks are quite far down, thinking in that road. And that's again, where the role of Vintex come in, right? Because banks don't need to build and develop all of their own technology assets. They create the platform, they create the access to their customer base and then other technology firms provide products onto those platforms. >> Right. Well, rough seas for financial services as it is for everybody, as we navigate these uncharted waters. We're five or six weeks into it, things seem to be settling a little bit down. And at least in terms of the daily shocks that we were going through, through the course of March. And I think we are helping to define a new normal. I don't think, and I would imagine you would agree, that coming out of this is not going to be the same as going into it. January 2021 is not going to look like January 2020 did, at all. So just give you the final word as you look forward with some hope and enthusiasm and a smile. For your clients, what do you see as some of the positive benefits that we're going to realize in the post-COVID world? >> Well, I think when you go through huge shocks like this, which have obviously had huge, huge personal impact, but they've also had huge system impact, there's always a flight to quality, and there's a flight to those players that really represent the trust and the core of a industry. And so, I think the same will be for the financial services industry. There's been a lot of discussion about non-traditional entrants into financial services. At the end of the day, I think this is also an opportunity for banks to stand up and uphold the fact that they're trusted sources of service to their customer base, they do understand how to navigate through, as you've said, these unprecedented times, securely, protecting their customers' data and their assets. So I think you will see a resurgence of the role of a trusted industry in the path forward. >> Well Sarah, thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspectives, and your ongoing expertise in the field. Really enjoyed the conversation, and stay safe out there. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> All right. She's Sarah Diamond. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE's continuing coverage of IBM Think 2020, the digital experience. Thanks for watching and I'll see you next time. (bright upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Cloud-Now's Seventh Annual Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. (upbeat music) >> Hi, Lisa Martin with theCUBE, on the ground, at Facebook headquarters. We're here for the seventh annual Cloud-Now Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. Excited to welcome, from the AtScale team, to theCUBE for the first time, Sarah Gerwck co-founder and chief architect and award winner. Sarah it's so great to have you on the program. >> Thanks so much, it's great to be here. >> So I mention you join a number of your peers at AtScale who have been on theCUBE, so we're glad to have you on. So co-founder of a tech company, we're here celebrating women who have not only founded companies, technical entrepreneurs, venture bad companies, really hard things to achieve. Give us a little bit of the backstory about the co-founding opportunity that you and your co-founders had about what, 5 or so years ago at AtScale. >> Yeah so a number of the founding team came out of Yahoo where in the analytics group, we were seeing that the scale of data that companies were operating with was changing. And the operational environment was changing with both public and private clouds. And even at Yahoo as a technology company, we found we were struggling both internally to develop the tools that we needed and also to find tools on the market that served the needs of our business users, and our executives, and our accounts and sales people. So we realized that this was just a sort of pivotal moment in the change of the way business was being done in the Valley. That there was this great opportunity to really help companies connect to their data wherever that data might be and whatever types of data they might have. So about 5 years so ago from your perspective, you are a STEM kid. You've got background in what is it, math and physics. >> That's right. >> So you knew from the time you were a kid, I love this, this is what I want to do. What were some of the things the inspired you as being... And many industries are challenging, but tech is as well. That inspired you to not only continue doing what you love, but to actually step out of, maybe you'd say a comfort zone of a large company like a Yahoo with your co-founders and start something brand new? >> Sure, I think it's the... The key thing to me is you have to sort of just believe in yourself and be your own champion because really everybody out there who accomplishes these things takes these steps and says this is going to be my moment, this is going to be my thing. And I think whether you're a woman, or a minority, or a man, or anybody, you just have to be confident in yourself. Look for the things that you really enjoy. For me that was math and science and technology. And just sort of find, here's my niche, here's something I can be really good at. And become an expert in that area. And that's sort of something you walk into over time, and sort of develop that confidence to sort of strike out and do some amazing things in your life. >> How do you find that for those next generation, or even those that are in tech now, to go I don't feel confident enough, or they might feel some pressure. What's your recommendation on lending themselves with a mentor, whether it be male, female whatever to help them just kind of take stock of what's really important to them? >> Yeah, I think finding people who have been through it and talking to them, whether it could be a boss or a coworker whose done interesting things in their lives, or an old teacher, or a present teacher, I think finding somebody who can sort of give you that story of like here's how I felt because you have to have confidence in yourself but really nobody feels confident all the time. Everybody gets anxious or fearful before doing something new. That's part of it and sort of learning to look back and say well, I've been successful in the past, and I've overcome these obstacles and I'm ready for another one. >> I always think something that's so interesting is the concept of imposter syndrome. And how many people suffer from it, and I didn't even know it existed until a few years ago. And it level set, Okay, I'm not the only one. And so I think that's something that some people are kind of born with that like regardless, you love math and physics and you're going to keep going. But for those, I think even sometimes acknowledging, oh, this is something that a lot of people that have confidence now didn't have back in the day. I can overcome this as well. >> Right, I think everybody has a little bit of imposter syndrome at times. I just think that the world can seem like such a big and challenging place, but really it's all made of people and they all have the same sort of interests and desires. Not necessarily all the same skills, but deep down we're all people. >> Exactly, so tonight though, in the last minute or so, you have the opportunity to present in front of one of the most influential females of our time in technology, Sheryl Sandberg. Can you think back to yourself in college, and if you'd known this opportunity was going to happen, would have just said, yeah, that's about right? >> I would've been a surprise. I think with work and sort of following your passion, I think anything's possible. >> I love that. Well, Sarah, congratulations on the award and for all of your success at AtScale. We congratulate you, and we thank you for stopping by theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Have a great night as well. >> Thanks. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. I am Lisa Martin on the ground at Facebook headquarters. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, from New Orleans, Louisiana. It's theCUBE! Covering .NEXT conference 2018, brought to you by Nutanix! >> Welcome back to theCUBE! This is SiliconANGLE Media's live production of Nutanix .NEXT 2018. If you've eaten a lot of the cuisine here in New Orleans, you might want to do something to help burn those calories, and joining us for this segment, happy to welcome Sarah Robb O'Hagan, who's the CEO of Flywheel Sports and also the author of Extreme You. Sarah, welcome to our program. >> Thanks for having me! >> Tell us a little bit about your company and what brings your group to the show? >> Yeah, we're very excited to be here, this is a whole new experience for us. Flywheel is an indoor cycling business We started off as basically bricks and mortar, indoor cycling classes, and we were the first company to put technology on the bike, so have either of you done spinning before ever? >> I've seen them in a gym. >> Seen them in a gym. >> I take my bike out on the trails and get my kids out a bunch, but not indoors so much. >> So in the old days if you did a spinning class and the instructor was like turn up your resistance, you'd maybe kind of pretend but you didn't do it, whereas we put tech on the bike so it's like, oh, you have to hit this number and you've got to get this output, and so it makes it much more athletic and accountable, and then we just recently launched a streaming platform, so now you can stream the classes into one of our bikes in your home, it's for flight anywhere, so we ended up coming here 'cause I was speaking at the conference with regards to my book and we were like these are fun people, they're going to want to check out our bikes and our techs, so let's do it. >> Wait, so the tech people, do they get engaged, are they trying it out? >> Oh it's amazing, yeah. We've seen people riding to the leaderboard wearing jeans, it's fantastic. >> I'm a runner, so-- >> Yeah, me too! >> But, you know there's certain runners and there's certain cyclists that there's this built-in competition like, you know, cycling is for the hardcore folks that really like the workout, and then you have guys like me. I can't stream a app to say, hey, you know what, you need to pick up your pace and keep it moving. That is an amazing kind of innovation, especially for that market, there's an awful lot of competition. How are you differentiating yourself between the competition? >> That's a great question. So it starts with who we're serving, who we're doing it for, right, so if there's about a hundred million in America that work out maybe between zero and six times a week. Our consumers are the ones that are like five to six times a week, they are hardcore, they're intense, they like competition, they are, like, I can't let the kids win at Monopoly kind of people, and so how we differentiate is everything in the product has been designed with them in mind, so allowing them to really push their own performance in a big way and the metrics, every time you do a ride, particularly on the streaming platform, you can pace against yourself last time you rode, so you can see am I keeping up, am I doing better, so it's basically about really focusing on one kind of athlete, as we call them, and meeting their needs as best as we can. >> Digital transformation is hitting your industry hard. >> Totally. >> You're streaming now, you've been through some big brands in the past, how's this impacting? How does your company deal with the pace of change? >> Well, you know, it's funny. I have been lucky in that my career, I've journeyed through some very big iconic brands. I was at Virgin Megastores when we used to buy music, do you remember on things that went round and round from retail store, right? And then along came Napster and totally disrupted that industry. I was at Gatorade when we had to transform that, and what I've learned along the way is that you just have to commit yourself to constantly innovating and disrupting yourself. If you let the environment do it to you it's too late, and so I think that's how we think about it, like we soar not so much from the market, because certainly streaming is taking off, like health and fitness apps in the app store are always the top category on both Android and iPhone. Also boutique fitness was exploding, so that's where you do one kind of modality as opposed to going to a full service gym, and so we saw these trends happening, but then you speak to the consumer, it's like what are you looking for? And what we kept hearing was I love being at Flywheel, but I wish I could get it when I was on the road, when I'm in the hotel, when I'm, you know, and so we're like how do we bring out content to you wherever you need it at any time? So that was really what led to it. >> So, I would like to talk to you about discoverability, like as you said, go to the app store, Google fitness app, going to get 10,000 results. How do you guys rise to the top? How do you find new customers? >> Interestingly enough, we, I think, are lucky because of our existing business, so we have a footprint of 42 studios, we have 600,000 people that have ridden with Flywheel over the years, and what's neat about having that in-person experience is you really build brand evangelists, so a lot of our early sales of the streaming platform have come from those people who are telling their friends about it, who are not in communities where our studios exist, and then from obviously a paid digital ad standpoint, we can get very very specific in to look-alike types to the kinds of consumer we have because they have pretty standard typical behaviors, in terms of they happen to do a lot of marathons, they happen to do Tough Mudders and stuff like that. They're runners, they're doing strength workouts, so we can see what these kinds of people are online to really be focused on how we target them. >> So what about the monetization? You know there's the freemium models, there's all different things, how is this move impacted that? >> That's a great question. We're doing our streaming as a subscription model and actually we look for a one year commitment, 'cause we really believe that, particularly 'cause we're going after someone who's very engaged in the category. We want them to sign up and be with the program and basically get that loyalty to, not only the programming, the instructors they love, but the data, like once they've got data in the system that becomes a method of loyalty, because it keeps them wanting to know what their previous results were, so for us we're not really doing free leading in. I mean, certainly we do trial classes in our studios, but we know that people, basically, if they make a commitment, that's how they become really loyal to our brand and our category. >> So talk to us as a leader and someone who's, you know there's probably nothing more personal, more critical to me than my running data, like I completely trust it to my cloud provider, and if it was to ever go away I'd be devastated if I have a big running goal. As you pick technology partners and you have that weight like someone may look at it from the outside, oh, what's the big deal if you're cycling data is gone? That's very serious. How do you pick technology partners that help you to extend the trust that your users put in to you, to your technology partner? >> It's so profoundly important to the relationship with our consumer, that when we're picking technology partners we're always going to go for best in class, and we're always going to make sure those are the people that we know are treating the data with the same kind of importance, I guess, that we are. For example, we're actually doing a lot with Apple right now, not surprisingly with the Apple Watch because that's the kind of partner we see so many of our riders are using Apple Watches in the experience anyway, and we want to be able to take the data that's coming through that device, add it to what we're getting off the bike, and make it more meaningful for that particular consumer. It's very important to us, we would not ever go with some fly-by-night tech partner if they didn't have the kind of credentials that we were looking for. >> Alright. So Sarah, tell us about the book. Step Up, Stand Out, Kick Ass, Repeat? >> Kick ass, people. That's what it's about. So I wrote the book about a couple years ago, it's interesting how it came about, you're a runner so I think you'll appreciate this. I have three kids, and my kids were going and playing new sports, and coming home with participation trophies, and I'm like what the hell is that? Like why did you get a trophy just for showing up, you know? And then at the same time I noticed in the workforce, younger employees that were coming in who were like, where's my promotion? I'm here. It's connected, right? And so I started to do a lot of research, and I realized that for 20, 30 years we have been raising kids from a self-empowerment standpoint, to not expose them to risks and failing and all of these things, yet the most successful people in the world have gone through really tough times to get there, and so I went down this journey of interviewing some really incredible people, like from Condoleezza Rice through to Bode Miller, the skier, through to Mister Cartoon who's a tattoo artist, like all people who are top of their game at what they do. To basically weave together what were the commonalities that got them there to help educate another generation of how to do the same for themselves, and then also applied it to business, so take those themes and how do you bring that to life as a leader within your team to get the most results out of your organization. >> Well it was surprising, well I guess it's not surprising how many people in our industry that are high performers, executives, that are also extreme athletes, whether they're extreme cyclists. Ran into a group of people the other day, one of the cycler's says, "You know what "my biggest complaint about the iPhone is? "It only lasts three hours." >> Yeah, yeah, I get that. >> That same attitude extends out. One question about innovation. How do you guys consider or approach innovation in a market that, like cycling is pretty straight forward, get on a bike and you run, or if you're not directly creating equipment, how do you guys consider innovation, is it just physical, is it data, is it services, what's the approach? >> All of the above, right? And what I love about being in this category, I've been in sports and fitness for 20 years. I was at Nike, I was at Gatorade, and now I'm at Flywheel, and what I love is innovation is all about are we making the athlete better, period. And so it's such a clear filter and that may be through data that gives you insights of how you rode today versus yesterday, what did you eat, did that make the ride better or worse, or it may be, in the case of Nike and Gatorade, the products you put on your body, in your body, like they're all in service of helping you be better and I think it enables us to sort of not get distracted by the sort of, oh, this is the cool hip thing right now that everyone's doing in every category, and instead go is that helping to make an athlete better, is it motivating them, is it helping them physically, is it essentially getting them better results? >> Alright. Sarah Robb O'Hagan, thank you so much for joining us. >> It's been fun. >> We definitely have to check out your area before we wrap up. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .NET's 2018 in New Orleans, for Keith Townsend. I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCUBE! (light electro music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's the Cube. Covering Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing. Brought to you by SiliconAngle Media. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of the Grace Hopper Conference, here in Orlando Florida. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Jeff Frick. We're joined by Sarah Clatterback. She's the Senior Director of Engineering at LinkedIn, and Erica Lockheimer, the head of Growth Engineering at LinkedIn. Thanks so much for coming on the show, again. >> Yes, thank you. >> Thanks for having us again. >> We're getting the band back together. >> Absolutely. >> So before the cameras were rolling you were talking about the exciting initiatives and programs you have at LinkedIn. One of them that definitely caught Jeff's imagination was Reach. It's sort of a cross-fit for engineers. So tell us more about Reach. >> Yeah, so Reach is a program where we wanted to really look at how we're hiring talent in a different way. So one of the things, actually it was an inspiration of a candidate that we had at Grace Hopper last year, where she had come and she gave us her resume. >> Yep. >> Abby, and she said "I can't get an engineering job. I did a boot camp but no one will hire me. I don't have enough experience." And she really was the catalyst that really created the program. We said, we need to look at talent in a very different way. So we decided, it stemmed also from her and also from Whit where if there's working mothers, how do they get back into the workforce? So these two ideas started coming together, and we said, why not create a program where we can maybe have them come to LinkedIn, get their skills back up, teach them how to code, and eventually work at LinkedIn. So we kicked off the program, and we did very little media, and we had over 700 people apply, and we went through 500 applications, and had 30 candidates at LinkedIn. So they just finished the end of the group session, but they are converting. They're learning how to code. They're checking code live to the site, and these are people from different backgrounds. As a veteran, returning back to work, even some people that have been in a bad situation of being homeless. I mean, this is talking about, not only about career transformation, but transforming their lives. And it's such a special program that has just changed the way that we're thinking about hiring. I don't know if you want to add anything. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that it's had a great impact on our company. I think, the way we think about hiring, but also how the whole team has interacted and really come together to support these apprentices, in being successful as engineers. So I've seen it actually transform the entire culture of our engineering team through this whole program. >> It's interesting, you use the word apprenticeship . And I think of that too, 'cause there's always the talk, right, about technology taking jobs. On the other hand, we hear over and over, there's all these open tech jobs. There's nobody to fill them. >> Yes. >> And then you got the transition with the truck drivers that are all going to be displaced by autonomous trucks, in the not distant future. So it's interesting as you point out, to kind of rethink, kind of the classic, go to school do your time, come in at the bottom and work your way up. Because there needs to be a much more variant to be able to get people to retrain, to take people through various backgrounds. And are you seeing that reflected, 'cause you guys, obviously, represent a bunch of companies that are looking for people. Are you seeing a broader adoption of this kind of non-traditional approach to getting talent? >> Well, it's a program that we started off as a pilot. >> Okay. >> We are definitely going to do a second round. So we would love to share and open source how we're doing it and we'd love to have other companies thinking this way. But it's truly, back to Sarah's point, it's really not only transformed our culture, but it's even thinking about how we're hiring. We're in hiring committee every single week, and we start looking at these candidates, like oh, it looks like a Reach candidate. Before you would've maybe bypassed them and said oh they're not ready. This is now a different way to invest. But I definitely want more companies to do this, and we'll pilot, we'll share it, we'll open source it, and it will be fantastic. >> So talk about some of the other programs including Invest, and how you're helping, making sure that employees are happy where they are. >> So Invest is a program that came out of the Women and Tech Initiative between Sarah and I, and we thought about some of the personal experiences that we had, is how did we get to where we're at? And you want to design a program about your own experiences. You're like, hey I know that works. Let me just create a playbook around it. So we met, and we said we have executive coaching. We had basically a community of people, we could talk to about some challenges and we had managers invest in us. So why not create a program about that. So we have, this is our third session that we're doing it, and we have 50 women in the program. But the program consists of two day executive coaching, one-on-one with your manager, continuant of bringing the community of women together, and going through this. And what we've found in the success results is there's zero in the last 10 months of them being part of this program, and 40 percent promotions which is fantastic. And then what also happens is they go into this program, and they want to be mentored, and they graduate really literally from the program. Now we want them to pay it forward. >> Pay it forward to the next cohort that's going to come through this program. And I think we have several things we can measure. I mean, you talked about the promotion rate, but we can also talk about, did they have, sort of, a career moment in the year following their trip through the program. Were they able to step up and take a bigger assignment, more responsibility. There are other ways to measure the success of the program, as well, and we're seeing that across the board. >> Yeah, and just to add on to it, it really is a community that we're starting to build within the company, and it just feels fantastic. People feel great. We're walking around through the hallways like, I'm part of Invest when can I sign up. Everybody wants to be a part of it. So we need to figure out, and we can scale it faster. >> Well measurement is also so important too, because so many companies want to know what the return on investment. So how do you think about the data collection and then measuring progress? >> Yeah, so basically for all these initiatives before we start them we say what are going to be the things that we're going to measure? What are the metrics of success. And I think in this particular case, Erika mentioned attrition rate. That's what's in it for the company is retaining top talented women. But then on the other side, are they achieving their career goals? Are they getting promoted? Are they able to step up? So those were, kind of, the two metrics that we had set for the program before we even started. And then we can basically check and see, are we achieving those results, or do we need to pivot something about the program, or reshape the program. So we do this at least yearly, if not quarterly, to see if we're tracking towards our goals. >> And just to add on to measurement, like she mentioned, it's hard to mention, how do you feel? You went through this program, how do you feel? They are feeling better. They are feeling more empowered. They want to actually be part of Whitmore and then help pay it forward. So that's also an amazing measurement of success too. >> I went to an interesting pitch night a little while ago. Stanford, I think MIT, Babson, and Cal, and there was a start up there. They were looking at external data sources, social media, et cetera to try and quickly identify high-risk leaves inside the company. So to basically would be the drive your candidate's election to say this person looks like, they're doing behaviors that might indicate they might be boogieing. >> Right, right? >> So maybe they should invested in to keep it going. 'Cause obviously it's so much better to keep your good people than to have to hire, retrain. >> Definitely. >> Et cetera. The huge ROI. And of course, the last thing, and I joke with you guys every time I see you. 'Cause I see you so often on LinkedIn usually, in a classroom. >> Good, keep on using LinkedIn >> With a bunch of little girls, teaching them, taking your weekends to teach coding and tech. It's just fantastic. But really interesting that you're expanding that program as well. So that Sarah can get some of her Saturdays back which I'm happy for. And really taking something successful. >> Yeah. >> And as you said, open sourcing. Open source continues to be such a great innovation engine. One of you can tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, absolutely. So our high school trainee program, we've been running it for three years now. We just finished our third cohort, and I think the results sort of speak for themselves. We've got a 96 percent rate of students going on to pursue stem degrees, and 89 percent studying computer science in particular. So I think we're actually seeing the result that we want out of the program, and we've even gone and reached a lot of girls who might be first generation college attendees, and we're even having the same success with them. So we really wanted to expand this program, horizontally scale it so to speak. So what we've done is we've put our program outline, as well as our curriculum that we do during the summer, online on GitHub, and we're encouraging other companies to pick this up, to adapt it to their own needs, and to provide additional opportunity for students around Silicone Valley and beyond. >> What's the biggest, consistent, it's not a surprise if it's consistent, and you've been doing it for three years. But as you run these programs, when you get the girls in for the first time, what's the thing that most people would never expect that you see over, and over, and over? >> I think for me, it's really seeing the identity transformation of the students. They come in. They're not sure if they belong. They feel intimidated, and by the end of the summer, they're confident, they're certain that they're going to be engineers. They see a future for themselves in Silicon Valley, and that's reflected not only at the end of the program, but also as they follow up with us in the subsequent years. So, for example, one of our first cohort has already finished her undergrad at Berkeley >> Yay! >> Wow! >> in two years, in computer Science. >> She finished in two years? >> She finished her undergrad >> She's a very motivated lady. >> She's so excited. >> She's amazing. >> Wow. >> And she's in a third year master's program right now. I get updates periodically from all the students. How they're doing, how their programs are going. One of the women from our first cohort, Vanessa, is also here at Grace Hopper. So we're going to meet up for dinner tomorrow night. It's really great to follow them as they become confident technologists into their career. >> Great story. >> So I want to ask you, being here at Grace Hopper, it's easy to feel that companies really get it in the sense of the importance of recruiting and retaining women, making sure that there's opportunities for them. But in terms of the state of the industry, and I'm asking LinkedIn which really epitomizes professional career management. >> Yes. >> Do companies get it? Where are we? >> So I think there's several companies that want to do something, I think we're all still trying to figure it out. As sad as that may be at times, but it's a hard problem to solve. When you're at a conference like this and you're like, there's not enough women in tech. There's tons of women in tech. If you have to think about how you're hiring in and if you want different results, you have to do something different. So what are you doing? Your old ways of doing things is not the way to do it, clearly. So how can you pivot and change? So I think they need to continually try different things. But I feel good. I feel we're going to get in that right trajectory, but it's going to take some time. >> Yeah, I think this is algorithm optimization, right? >> Yes, good analogy, good analogy. >> The inputs and the outputs. Are we getting the result that we want? And we're all iterating our algorithms to figure out what's working, and how we can do better. >> New inputs, new inputs. >> Excellent. Well Erika, Sarah, thank you so much. It's always so much fun having you on the show. >> Well thank you for having us, it's fantastic. >> Absolutely >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Jeff Frick who will be back tomorrow with more from Grace Hopper. See you then. (upbeat music)

well you're watching the cube and I knew that you knew that I'm John Walls we're here in Las Vegas it's re invent 22. Big Show AWS putting it on the Big Show here late in 2022 that's going really well we're at the executive Summit right now sponsored by Accenture and we're going to talk about that relationship between Accenture and AWS um kind of where it is now and where it's going you know even bigger things down the road to help us do that two guests Andy Tay who's a senior managing director and the Accenture AWS business group lead at Accenture Andy thanks for being with us thanks for having me and Sarah whose last name was one of my all-time favorites all good because it is it's all good right okay it's all good Sarah all good worldwide leader of accenture's AWS business group for AWS and thank you both again for being here so let's talk about the relationship just in general high level here 30 000 feet a lot of great things have been happening we know a lot of great things are happening but how's this all you think evolved how did how has this come about that you two are just inextricably linked almost here in the cloud space Sarah why don't you jump on that yeah I'd love to um I think one of the the strongest factors that causes that Synergy for us is we both work backwards from our customer outcomes and so just by consistently doing that taking those customer signals um really obsessing over our customers success we know what we're marching towards and so then we kind of extract those themes and really work together to think about okay when we look at this holistically how do we go bigger better faster together and accomplish and solve those customer problems yeah Andy yeah John let me just maybe add and you know to amplify you know what Sarah just touched on um we both have common to our culture this notion of working from the client's perspective first so really delivering to the clients values or um you know in aws's parlance it's you know customer and so that's at the core and when we keep that at the core everything else becomes really easy where we invest what we build key clients we focus on what our team structure is et cetera Etc that's really easy so that sort of core core pillar number one in terms of our sort of you know success factors the second thing that I think really helps us is our sort of scale geographically you know certainly from an Accenture standpoint as you know John we're north of 800 000 people globally um couple that with aws's strength we really do have you know a field depth and breadth across the board that allows us to sort of see and feel what's happening in the market and allows us really to see around the corners as we like to think and say um and and that helps us be intentional on what we do um and then the third thing is really us we might know what we do but we sort of need to then play to our strengths and as you know we're two very different companies one focus on the technology side the other you know focus on the technology Services although we'll touch on you know some of the changes we're looking at as we go forward but that sort of playing to strength is key as well for us as a third pillar of success and so keeping those three things at the core really helps us move you know day to day and year by year and that's what you see in this continued partnership so what are you hearing from your customers these days we've talked a lot already today and it's kind of the buzzword you know modernization right everybody's talking about this transformation I don't care if you're in Mainframe or where you are everybody wants a modernized right now um you know what are you hearing from customers in that regard and I'm sure everybody's in a different state different yeah frame of mind you know some are embracing some are dragging uh what what's your take on the state of play right now well and I think it's like especially in these macroeconomic moments that we're in um time to value is critical for our customers um and then we have the talent shortage but even with those our customers still need us to solve for sustainability and still focus on inclusion diversity and equity and so we can't lower the bar in anything that we've already been doing we need to just keep doing more and building with them and so I think um for us really getting to the to the meat of what our customers need modernization is a big one but we're still seeing just so many of our customers look at basic transformation right how how do I dip in how do I start to move my environment move my people and get ready for what I need to do next for my business and so that that is a challenge and like we said with with the markets as volatile as they are right now I think a lot of customers are just trying to work with us to figure out how to do that in the most optimized and efficient way I just want to kind of rub people on the head and say it's going to be all right I mean it's so volatile as you pointed out Sarah right yeah I mean the market up and down and we're worried about a recession and companies and their plans they want to be Forward Thinking yeah but they've got to you know keep their powder dry too in some respects and get ready for that rainy day you know John it's funny um because you would think you know you've got the one hand you know rub that you know it's gonna be all right and and then on the other end you'll you know maybe clients should sort of hold temper and you know sort of just pause but I think clients get it they see it they feel it they understand the need to invest and I think you know there's a recent study back in 2008 those clients you know Sarah and I were reading the other day those clients who didn't invest ahead of those you know major if you remember those macroeconomic downturn times they came out really on the bad side um and so clients now are realizing that in these times these are the moments to invest and so they get it but they're faced with a couple of challenges one is time Sarah touched on you just don't have time and the second is Talent so we're working in a very intentional way on what we can do to help them there and and as you'll hear later on from Chris Wegman and Eric Farr um we're launching our velocity platform which really helps to compress that type and and get them faster you know time to Value we're also being very intentional on talent and how we help their talent so you know rotate so that we're not just taking the technology Journey but we're also having the people journey and then the third thing Sarah and I really focus on with our teams is figuring out new ways new sources of value for our clients and that's not just cost that's value the broader set and so we find that in moments like this it's actually an opportunity for us to really bring the best of AWS and Accenture to our clients well you hit value and I always find this one kind of tough because there is a big difference between cost and value my cost is X right whatever I write on my chat that's my cost so but but how do you help clients identify that value so that because it's you know it can be a little nebulous right can it not I mean it's uh but you have to validate you got to quantify at the end of the day because that's what the CEO wants to see it's what the CIO wants to see yeah you've got to identify values so how many how do you do that yeah yeah I mean we we have many different ways right velocity which Andy kind of touched on I think is is really um it's our foundational approach to help customers really kind of enter into their Cloud journey and focus on those key factors for Success right so we've got ISB Solutions built in there We've Got Talent and change built in we've got kind of what we're calling the fabric right that foundational technology layer and giving our customers all of that in a way that they can consume in a way that they can control and you know different modules essentially that they can leverage to move it's going to be tangible right they're going to be able to see I've now got access to all these things that I need I can move as I need to move and I'm not constantly you know looking around figuring out how to lock it all together we've given them that picture and that road map on how to really leverage this because we we need to be able to point to tangible outcomes and so that's critical yeah proof's got to be in the pudding and and you know to Sarah's point I think sort of we're entering into this sort of new dare I say new chapter of cloud and then you know sort of the first chapter was sort of those outcomes were around cost you know I've moved you into the cloud you can shut down your data center but now we've sort of got other sources of value now Beyond costs there's news new sources of revenue how do I become a platform company on top of the AWS cloud and then you know eke out new Revenue sources for myself how do I drive new experiences for my customers yeah um how do I maybe tap into the sustainability angle of things and how do I get greater Innovation from my talent how do I operate better in a Sarah said how do I become more Nimble more agile and more responsive to Market demands and so all those areas all those Dynamics all those outcomes are sources of value that were sort of really laser focused on and just ensuring that as a partnership we we help our clients on that Journey so what do you do about talent I mean you brought it up a couple of times UTP has um in terms of of training retaining recruiting all those key elements right now it's an ultra competitive environment right now yeah and there might be a little bit of a talent Gap in terms of what we're producing right so um you know how do you I guess make the most out of that and and make sure you keep the good people around yeah Talent is an interesting one John um and we were just touching on this uh before we got here um you know sort of from an Accenture standpoint um we're obviously focused on growing our AWS Talent um we've now got I think it's north of 27 000 people in Accenture with AWS certifications north of 34 000 certificates you know which is absolutely fantastic a small City it's just I mean it is very intentional in building that um as AWS rolls out new Services Adam touched on a whole bunch of them today we're at the core of that and ramping and building our talent so that we can drive and get our clients quicker to their value and then the second area of focus is what do we do to help our clients Talent how do we train them how do we enable them how do we you know get them to be more agile and you know being able to sort of operate in what we call that digital core operate in the cloud how do we do that and so we're focused um in in capabilities in fact our Accenture head of talent and people and change Christie Smith John is is here this week just for that and we're exploring ways in which we can get tighter and even more Innovative Around Talent and so I ultimately that that bleeds over to where the partnership goes right because if you can enhance that side of it then then everybody wins on that in terms of what you think you know where this is going yeah yeah it's already you know pretty good setup uh things are working pretty well but as the industry changes so rapidly and and you have to meet those needs how do you see the partnership evolving as well to meet those needs down the road we we have a very fortunate position in that our CEOs are both very engaged in this partnership and they push us think bigger go faster figure it out let's ride and there are definite pros and cons and some days I'm flying this close to the Sun but um it isn't a it's an absolute privilege to work with them the way that we get to and so we're always looking I mean Auntie said it earlier this is the relationship that helps us look around corners we've raised the bar and so we're constantly pushing each other pushing our teams just innovating together thinking it all through on where are we going and like I said reading those tea leaves reading those themes from our customers like hey we've just had five customers with the same similar feeling problem that we're trying to solve or we ran into the same issue in the field and how do we put that together and solve for it because we know it's not just five right we know they're more out there and so um I think you know it's it's leadership principles for us right at Amazon that guiding think big um you know insist on high standards that that'll always be core and Central to who we are and then you know fortunately Accenture has a really similar ethos yeah quick take on that Andy yeah I think as we look out you know I think um we're going to we've already seen but we're going to see this continued blurring of Industries um of um you know sort of clients moving into other Industries and yeah sort of this sort of agitation Market agitation um and so I think disruption you know disruption and and we're being you know focused on what do we need to be to do in order to help our clients on those Journeys and and to continue to you know get them you know faster Solutions is an area that we you know we are um really looking at and these are solutions that are either industry Solutions you'll hear a couple of them this week um you know we've got our insurance solution that we're we've developed as an intelligent underwriting capability leveraging AWS AIML to sort of be intelligent and cognitive um you know we've got other Solutions around the around Industries energy and Life Sciences but then also intelligent applications that might be touching you know areas I think earlier today Adam talked about AWS supply chain and that's an area that we are focused on and and proud to be a part of that and we're working very very closely with with Amazon on that uh to help you know our clients move ahead so I think we're going to see this continued blurring and we're going to obviously you know keep addressing that and just keep iterating well it looks like a relationship of trust and expertise right and it's worked out extremely well and uh if this is any indication where the interview went uh even better things are ahead for the partnership so thank you thank you for chiming in I appreciate your perspectives yeah thank you it's been great we continue our coverage here on thecube we're at re invent 22 we're in Las Vegas and you're watching thecube the leader in technical coverage foreign

>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr. This is breaking analysis with Dave Ante. >>Have you ever been driving on the highway and traffic suddenly slows way down and then after a little while it picks up again and you're cruising along and you're thinking, Okay, hey, that was weird. But it's clear sailing now. Off we go, only to find out in a bit that the traffic is building up ahead again, forcing you to pump the brakes as the traffic pattern ebbs and flows well. Welcome to the Seesaw economy. The fed induced fire that prompted an unprecedented rally in tech is being purposefully extinguished now by that same fed. And virtually every sector of the tech industry is having to reset its expectations, including the cloud segment. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by etr. In this breaking analysis will review the implications of the earnings announcements from the big three cloud players, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google who announced this week. >>And we'll update you on our quarterly IAS forecast and share the latest from ETR with a focus on cloud computing. Now, before we get into the new data, we wanna review something we shared with you on October 14th, just a couple weeks back, this is sort of a, we told you it was coming slide. It's an XY graph that shows ET R'S proprietary net score methodology on the vertical axis. That's a measure of spending momentum, spending velocity, and an overlap or presence in the dataset that's on the X axis. That's really a measure of pervasiveness. In the survey, the table, you see that table insert there that shows Wiki Bond's Q2 estimates of IAS revenue for the big four hyperscalers with their year on year growth rates. Now we told you at the time, this is data from the July TW 22 ETR survey and the ETR hadn't released its October survey results at that time. >>This was just a couple weeks ago. And while we couldn't share the specific data from the October survey, we were able to get a glimpse and we depicted the slowdown that we saw in the October data with those dotted arrows kind of down into the right, we said at the time that we were seeing and across the board slowdown even for the big three cloud vendors. Now, fast forward to this past week and we saw earnings releases from Alphabet, Microsoft, and just last night Amazon. Now you may be thinking, okay, big deal. The ETR survey data didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know. But judging from the negative reaction in the stock market to these earnings announcements, the degree of softness surprised a lot of investors. Now, at the time we didn't update our forecast, it doesn't make sense for us to do that when we're that close to earning season. >>And now that all the big three ha with all the big four with the exception of Alibaba have announced we've, we've updated. And so here's that data. This chart lays out our view of the IS and PAs worldwide revenue. Basically it's cloud infrastructure with an attempt to exclude any SaaS revenue so we can make an apples to apples comparison across all the clouds. Now the reason that actual is in quotes is because Microsoft and Google don't report IAS revenue, but they do give us clues and kind of directional commentary, which we then triangulate with other data that we have from the channel and ETR surveys and just our own intelligence. Now the second column there after the vendor name shows our previous estimates for q3, and then next to that we show our actuals. Same with the growth rates. And then we round out the chart with that lighter blue color highlights, the full year estimates for revenue and growth. >>So the key takeaways are that we shaved about $4 billion in revenue and roughly 300 basis points of growth off of our full year estimates. AWS had a strong July but exited Q3 in the mid 20% growth rate year over year. So we're using that guidance, you know, for our Q4 estimates. Azure came in below our earlier estimates, but Google actually exceeded our expectations. Now the compression in the numbers is in our view of function of the macro demand climate, we've made every attempt to adjust for constant currency. So FX should not be a factor in this data, but it's sure you know that that ma the the, the currency effects are weighing on those companies income statements. And so look, this is the fundamental dynamic of a cloud model where you can dial down consumption when you need to and dial it up when you need to. >>Now you may be thinking that many big cloud customers have a committed level of spending in order to get better discounts. And that's true. But what's happening we think is they'll reallocate that spend toward, let's say for example, lower cost storage tiers or they may take advantage of better price performance processors like Graviton for example. That is a clear trend that we're seeing and smaller companies that were perhaps paying by the drink just on demand, they're moving to reserve instance models to lower their monthly bill. So instead of taking the easy way out and just spending more companies are reallocating their reserve capacity toward lower cost. So those sort of lower cost services, so they're spending time and effort optimizing to get more for, for less whereas, or get more for the same is really how we should, should, should phrase it. Whereas during the pandemic, many companies were, you know, they perhaps were not as focused on doing that because business was booming and they had a response. >>So they just, you know, spend more dial it up. So in general, as they say, customers are are doing more with, with the same. Now let's look at the growth dynamic and spend some time on that. I think this is important. This data shows worldwide quarterly revenue growth rates back to Q1 2019 for the big four. So a couple of interesting things. The data tells us during the pandemic, you saw both AWS and Azure, but the law of large numbers and actually accelerate growth. AWS especially saw progressively increasing growth rates throughout 2021 for each quarter. Now that trend, as you can see is reversed in 2022 for aws. Now we saw Azure come down a bit, but it's still in the low forties in terms of percentage growth. While Google actually saw an uptick in growth this last quarter for GCP by our estimates as GCP is becoming an increasingly large portion of Google's overall cloud business. >>Now, unfortunately Google Cloud continues to lose north of 850 million per quarter, whereas AWS and Azure are profitable cloud businesses even though Alibaba is suffering its woes from China. And we'll see how they come in when they report in mid-November. The overall hyperscale market grew at 32% in Q3 in terms of worldwide revenue. So the slowdown isn't due to the repatriation or competition from on-prem vendors in our view, it's a macro related trend. And cloud will continue to significantly outperform other sectors despite its massive size. You know, on the repatriation point, it just still doesn't show up in the data. The A 16 Z article from Sarah Wong and Martin Martin Kasa claiming that repatriation was inevitable as a means to lower cost of good sold for SaaS companies. You know, while that was thought provoking, it hasn't shown up in the numbers. And if you read the financial statements of both AWS and its partners like Snowflake and you dig into the, to the, to the quarterly reports, you'll see little notes and comments with their ongoing negotiations to lower cloud costs for customers. >>AWS and no doubt execs at Azure and GCP understand that the lifetime value of a customer is worth much more than near term gross margin. And you can expect the cloud vendors to strike a balance between profitability, near term profitability anyway and customer attention. Now, even though Google Cloud platform saw accelerated growth, we need to put that in context for you. So GCP, by our estimate, has now crossed over the $3 billion for quarter market actually did so last quarter, but its growth rate accelerated to 42% this quarter. And so that's a good sign in our view. But let's do a quick little comparison with when AWS and Azure crossed the $3 billion mark and compare their growth rates at the time. So if you go back to to Q2 2016, as we're showing in this chart, that's around the time that AWS hit 3 billion per quarter and at the same time was growing at 58%. >>Azure by our estimates crossed that mark in Q4 2018 and at that time was growing at 67%. Again, compare that to Google's 42%. So one would expect Google's growth rate would be higher than its competitors at this point in the MO in the maturity of its cloud, which it's, you know, it's really not when you compared to to Azure. I mean they're kind of con, you know, comparable now but today, but, but you'll go back, you know, to that $3 billion mark. But more so looking at history, you'd like to see its growth rate at this point of a maturity model at least over 50%, which we don't believe it is. And one other point on this topic, you know, my business friend Matt Baker from Dell often says it's not a zero sum game, meaning there's plenty of opportunity exists to build value on top of hyperscalers. >>And I would totally agree it's not a dollar for dollar swap if you can continue to innovate. But history will show that the first company in makes the most money. Number two can do really well and number three tends to break even. Now maybe cloud is different because you have Microsoft software estate and the power behind that and that's driving its IAS business and Google ads are funding technology buildouts for, for for Google and gcp. So you know, we'll see how that plays out. But right now by this one measurement, Google is four years behind Microsoft in six years behind aws. Now to the point that cloud will continue to outpace other markets, let's, let's break this down a bit in spending terms and see why this claim holds water. This is data from ET r's latest October survey that shows the granularity of its net score or spending velocity metric. >>The lime green is new adoptions, so they're adding the platform, the forest green is spending more 6% or more. The gray bars spending is flat plus or minus, you know, 5%. The pinkish colors represent spending less down 6% or worse. And the bright red shows defections or churn of the platform. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get what's called net score, which is that blue dot that you can see on each of the bars. So what you see in the table insert is that all three have net scores above 40%, which is a highly elevated measure. Microsoft's net scores above 60% AWS well into the fifties and GCP in the mid forties. So all good. Now what's happening with all three is more customers are keep keeping their spending flat. So a higher percentage of customers are saying, our spending is now flat than it was in previous quarters and that's what's accounting for the compression. >>But the churn of all three, even gcp, which we reported, you know, last quarter from last quarter survey was was five x. The other two is actually very low in the single digits. So that might have been an anomaly. So that's a very good sign in our view. You know, again, customers aren't repatriating in droves, it's just not a trend that we would bet on, maybe makes for a FUD or you know, good marketing head, but it's just not a big deal. And you can't help but be impressed with both Microsoft and AWS's performance in the survey. And as we mentioned before, these companies aren't going to give up customers to try and preserve a little bit of gross margin. They'll do what it takes to keep people on their platforms cuz they'll make up for it over time with added services and improved offerings. >>Now, once these companies acquire a customer, they'll be very aggressive about keeping them. So customers take note, you have negotiating leverage, so use it. Okay, let's look at another cut at the cloud market from the ETR data set. Here's the two dimensional view, again, it's back, it's one of our favorites. Net score or spending momentum plotted against presence. And the data set, that's the x axis net score on the, on the vertical axis, this is a view of et r's cloud computing sector sector. You can see we put that magic 40% dotted red line in the table showing and, and then that the table inserts shows how the data are plotted with net score against presence. I e n in the survey, notably only the big three are above the 40% line of the names that we're showing here. The oth there, there are others. >>I mean if you put Snowflake on there, it'd be higher than any of these names, but we'll dig into that name in a later breaking analysis episode. Now this is just another way of quantifying the dominance of AWS and Azure, not only relative to Google, but the other cloud platforms out there. So we've, we've taken the opportunity here to plot IBM and Oracle, which both own a public cloud. Their performance is largely a reflection of them migrating their install bases to their respective public clouds and or hybrid clouds. And you know, that's fine, they're in the game. That's a point that we've made, you know, a number of times they're able to make it through the cloud, not whole and they at least have one, but they simply don't have the business momentum of AWS and Azure, which is actually quite impressive because AWS and Azure are now as large or larger than IBM and Oracle. >>And to show this type of continued growth that that that Azure and AWS show at their size is quite remarkable and customers are starting to recognize the viability of on-prem hi, you know, hybrid clouds like HPE GreenLake and Dell's apex. You know, you may say, well that's not cloud, but if the customer thinks it is and it was reporting in the survey that it is, we're gonna continue to report this view. You know, I don't know what's happening with H P E, They had a big down tick this quarter and I, and I don't read too much into that because their end is still pretty small at 53. So big fluctuations are not uncommon with those types of smaller ends, but it's over 50. So, you know, we did notice a a a negative within a giant public and private sector, which is often a, a bellwether giant public private is big public companies and large private companies like, like a Mars for example. >>So it, you know, it looks like for HPE it could be an outlier. We saw within the Fortune 1000 HPE E'S cloud looked actually really good and it had good spending momentum in that sector. When you di dig into the industry data within ETR dataset, obviously we're not showing that here, but we'll continue to monitor that. Okay, so where's this Leave us. Well look, this is really a tactical story of currency and macro headwinds as you can see. You know, we've laid out some of the points on this slide. The action in the stock market today, which is Friday after some of the soft earnings reports is really robust. You know, we'll see how it ends up in the day. So maybe this is a sign that the worst is over, but we don't think so. The visibility from tech companies is murky right now as most are guiding down, which indicates that their conservative outlook last quarter was still too optimistic. >>But as it relates to cloud, that platform is not going anywhere anytime soon. Sure, there are potential disruptors on the horizon, especially at the edge, but we're still a long ways off from, from the possibility that a new economic model emerges from the edge to disrupt the cloud and the opportunities in the cloud remain strong. I mean, what other path is there? Really private cloud. It was kind of a bandaid until the on-prem guys could get their a as a service models rolled out, which is just now happening. The hybrid thing is real, but it's, you know, defensive for the incumbents until they can get their super cloud investments going. Super cloud implying, capturing value above the hyperscaler CapEx, you know, call it what you want multi what multi-cloud should have been, the metacloud, the Uber cloud, whatever you like. But there are opportunities to play offense and that's clearly happening in the cloud ecosystem with the likes of Snowflake, Mongo, Hashi Corp. >>Hammer Spaces is a startup in this area. Aviatrix, CrowdStrike, Zeke Scaler, Okta, many, many more. And even the projects we see coming out of enterprise players like Dell, like with Project Alpine and what Pure Storage is doing along with a number of other of the backup vendors. So Q4 should be really interesting, but the real story is the investments that that companies are making now to leverage the cloud for digital transformations will be paying off down the road. This is not 1999. We had, you know, May might have had some good ideas and admittedly at a lot of bad ones too, but you didn't have the infrastructure to service customers at a low enough cost like you do today. The cloud is that infrastructure and so far it's been transformative, but it's likely the best is yet to come. Okay, let's call this a rap. >>Many thanks to Alex Morrison who does production and manages the podcast. Also Can Schiffman is our newest edition to the Boston Studio. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Ho is our editor in chief over@siliconangle.com, who does some wonderful editing for us. Thank you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, just search breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wiki bond.com at silicon angle.com. And you can email me at David dot valante@siliconangle.com or DM me at Dante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do checkout etr.ai. They got the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>Set restaurants. And who says TEUs had got a little ass more skin in the game for us, in charge of his destiny? You guys are excited. Robert Worship is Chief Alumni. >>My name is Dave Ante, and I'm a long time industry analyst. So when you're as old as I am, you've seen a lot of transitions. Everybody talks about industry cycles and waves. I've seen many, many waves. Met a lot of industry executives and of a little bit of a, an industry historian. When you interview many thousands of people, probably five or 6,000 people as I have over the last half of a decade, you get to interact with a lot of people's knowledge and you begin to develop patterns. And so that's sort of what I bring is, is an ability to catalyze the conversation and, you know, share that knowledge with others in the community. Our philosophy is everybody's expert at something. Everybody's passionate about something and has real deep knowledge about that's something well, we wanna focus in on that area and extract that knowledge and share it with our communities. This is Dave Ante. Thanks for watching the Cube. >>Hello everyone and welcome back to the Cube where we are streaming live this week from CubeCon. I am Savannah Peterson and I am joined by an absolutely stellar lineup of cube brilliance this afternoon. To my left, a familiar face, Lisa Martin. Lisa, how you feeling? End of day two. >>Excellent. It was so much fun today. The buzz started yesterday, the momentum, the swell, and we only heard even more greatness today. >>Yeah, yeah, abs, absolutely. You know, I, I sometimes think we've hit an energy cliff, but it feels like the energy is just >>Continuous. Well, I think we're gonna, we're gonna slide right into tomorrow. >>Yeah, me too. I love it. And we've got two fantastic analysts with us today, Sarge and Keith. Thank you both for joining us. We feel so lucky today. >>Great being back on. >>Thanks for having us. Yeah, Yeah. It's nice to have you back on the show. We were, had you yesterday, but I miss hosting with you. It's been a while. >>It has been a while. We haven't done anything in since, Since pre >>Pandemic, right? Yeah, I think you're >>Right. Four times there >>Be four times back in the day. >>We, I always enjoy whole thing, Lisa, cuz she's so well prepared. I don't have to do any research when I come >>Home. >>Lisa will bring up some, Oh, sorry. Jeep, I see that in 2008 you won this award for Yeah. Being just excellent and I, I'm like, Oh >>Yeah. All right Keith. So, >>So did you do his analysis? >>Yeah, it's all done. Yeah. Great. He only part, he's not sitting next to me too. We can't see it, so it's gonna be like a magic crystal bell. Right. So a lot of people here. You got some stats in terms of the attendees compared >>To last year? Yeah, Priyanka told us we were double last year up to 8,000. We also got the scoop earlier that 2023 is gonna be in Chicago, which is very exciting. >>Oh, that is, is nice. Yeah, >>We got to break that here. >>Excellent. Keith, talk to us about what some of the things are that you've seen the last couple of days. The momentum. What's the vibe? I saw your tweet about the top three things you were being asked. Kubernetes was not one of them. >>Kubernetes were, was not one of 'em. This conference is starting to, it, it still feels very different than a vendor conference. The keynote is kind of, you know, kind of all over the place talking about projects, but the hallway track has been, you know, I've, this is maybe my fifth or sixth CU con in person. And the hallway track is different. It's less about projects and more about how, how do we adjust to the enterprise? How do we Yes. Actually do enterprise things. And it has been amazing watching this community grow. I'm gonna say grow up and mature. Yes. You know, you know, they're not wearing ties yet, but they are definitely understanding kind of the, the friction of implementing new technology in, in an enterprise. >>Yeah. So ge what's your, what's been your take, We were with you yesterday. What's been the take today to take aways? >>NOMA has changed since yesterday, but a few things I think I, I missed talking about that yesterday were that, first of all, let's just talk about Amazon. Amazon earnings came out, it spooked the market and I think it's relevant in this context as well, because they're number one cloud provider. Yeah. And all, I mean, almost all of these technologies on the back of us here, they are related to cloud, right? So it will have some impact on these. Like we have to analyze that. Like will it make the open source go faster or slower in, in lieu of the fact that the, the cloud growth is slowing. Right? So that's, that's one thing that's put that's put that aside. I've been thinking about the, the future of Kubernetes. What is the future of Kubernetes? And in that context, I was thinking like, you know, I think in, when I put a pointer there, I think in tangents, like, what else is around this thing? So I think CN CNCF has been writing the success of Kubernetes. They are, that was their number one flagship project, if you will. And it was mature enough to stand on its own. It it was Google, it's Google's Borg dub da Kubernetes. It's a genericized version of that. Right? So folks who do tech deep down, they know that, Right. So I think it's easier to stand with a solid, you know, project. But when the newer projects come in, then your medal will get tested at cncf. Right. >>And cncf, I mean they've got over 140 projects Yeah. Right now. So there's definitely much beyond >>Kubernetes. Yeah. So they, I have numbers there. 18 graduated, right, 37 in incubation and then 81 in Sandbox stage. They have three stages, right. So it's, they have a lot to chew on and the more they take on, the less, you know, quality you get goes into it. Who is, who's putting the money behind it? Which vendors are sponsoring like cncf, like how they're getting funded up. I think it >>Something I pay attention to as well. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa, I know you've got >>Some insight. Those are the things I was thinking about today. >>I gotta ask you, what's your take on what Keith said? Are you also seeing the maturation of the enterprise here at at coupon? >>Yes, I am actually, when you say enterprise versus what's the other side? Startups, right? Yeah. So startups start using open source a lot more earlier or lot more than enterprises. The enterprise is what they need. Number one thing is the, for their production workloads, they want a vendor sporting them. I said that yesterday as well, right? So it depend depending on the size of the enterprise. If you're a big shop, definitely if you have one of the 500 or Fortune five hundreds and your tech savvy shop, then you can absorb the open source directly coming from the open source sort of universe right. Coming to you. But if you are the second tier of enterprise, you want to go to a provider which is managed service provider, or it can be cloud service provider in this case. Yep. Most of the cloud service providers have multiple versions of Kubernetes, for example. >>I'm not talking about Kubernetes only, but like, but that is one example, right? So at Amazon you can get five different flavors of Kubernetes, right? Fully manage, have, manage all kind of stuff. So people don't have bandwidth to manage that stuff locally. You have to patch it, you have to roll in the new, you know, updates and all that stuff. Like, it's a lot of work for many. So CNCF actually is formed for that reason. Like the, the charter is to bring the quality to open source. Like in other companies they have the release process and they, the stringent guidelines and QA and all that stuff. So is is something ready for production? That's the question when it comes to any software, right? So they do that kind of work and, and, and they have these buckets defined at high level, but it needs more >>Work. Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, kind of stood out to me, I have good friend in the community, Alex Ellis, who does open Fast. It's a serverless platform, great platform. Two years ago or in 2019, there was a serverless day date. And in serverless day you had K Native, you had Open Pass, you had Ws, which is supported by IBM completely, not CNCF platforms. K native came into the CNCF full when Google donated the project a few months ago or a couple of years ago, now all of a sudden there's a K native day. Yes. Not a serverless day, it's a K native day. And I asked the, the CNCF event folks like, what happened to Serverless Day? I missed having open at serverless day. And you know, they, they came out and said, you know what, K native got big enough. >>They came in and I think Red Hat and Google wanted to sponsor a K native day. So serverless day went away. So I think what what I'm interested in and over the next couple of years is, is they're gonna be pushback from the C against the cncf. Is the CNCF now too big? Is it now the gatekeeper for do I have to be one of those 147 projects, right? In order enough to get my project noticed the open, fast, great project. I don't think Al Alex has any desire to have his project hosted by cncf, but it probably deserves, you know, shoulder left recognition with that. So I'm pushing to happen to say, okay, if this is open community, this is open source. If CNC is the place to have the cloud native conversation, what about the projects that's not cncf? Like how do we have that conversation when we don't have the power of a Google right. Or a, or a Lenox, et cetera, or a Lenox Foundation. So GE what, >>What are your thoughts on that? Is, is CNC too big? >>I don't think it's too big. I think it's too small to handle the, what we are doing in open source, right? So it's a bottle. It can become a bottleneck. Okay. I think too big in a way that yeah, it has, it has, it has power from that point of view. It has that cloud, if you will. The people listen to it. If it's CNCF project or this must be good, it's like in, in incubators. Like if you are y white Combinator, you know, company, it must be good. You know, I mean, may not be >>True, but, >>Oh, I think there's a bold assumption there though. I mean, I think everyone's just trying to do the best they can. And when we're evaluating projects, a very different origin and background, it's incredibly hard. Very c and staff is a staff of 30 people. They've got 180,000 people that are contributing to these projects and a thousand maintainers that they're trying to uphold. I think the challenge is actually really great. And to me, I actually look at events as an illustration of, you know, what's the culture and the health of an organization. If I were to evaluate CNCF based on that, I'd say we're very healthy right now. I would say that we're in a good spot. There's a lot of momentum. >>Yeah. I, I think CNCF is very healthy. I'm, I'm appreciative for it being here. I love coupon. It's becoming the, the facto conference to have this conversation has >>A totally >>Different vibe to other, It's a totally different vibe. Yeah. There needs to be a conduit and truth be told, enterprise buyers, to subject's point, this is something that we do absolutely agree on, on enterprise buyers. We want someone to pick winners and losers. We do, we, we don't want a box of Lego dumped on our, the middle of our table. We want somebody to have sorted that out. So while there may be five or six different service mesh solutions, at least the cncf, I can go there and say, Oh, I'll pick between the three or four that are most popular. And it, it's a place to curate. But I think with that curation comes the other side of it. Of how do we, how, you know, without the big corporate sponsor, how do I get my project pushed up? Right? Elevated. Elevated, Yep. And, and put onto the show floor. You know, another way that projects get noticed is that startups will adopt them, Push them. They may not even be, I don't, my CNCF project may not, my product may not even be based on the CNCF product. But the new stack has a booth, Ford has a booth. Nothing to do with a individual prod up, but promoting open source. What happens when you're not sponsored? >>I gotta ask you guys, what do you disagree on? >>Oh, so what, what do we disagree on? So I'm of the mindset, I can, I can say this, I I believe hybrid infrastructure is the future of it. Bar none. If I built my infrastructure, if I built my application in the cloud 10 years ago and I'm still building net new applications, I have stuff that I built 10 years ago that looks a lot like on-prem, what do I do with it? I can't modernize it cuz I don't have the developers to do it. I need to stick that somewhere. And where I'm going to stick that at is probably a hybrid infrastructure. So colo, I'm not gonna go back to the data center, but I'm, I'm gonna look, pick up something that looks very much like the data center and I'm saying embrace that it's the future. And if you're Boeing and you have, and Boeing is a member, cncf, that's a whole nother topic. If you have as 400 s, hpu X, et cetera, stick that stuff. Colo, build new stuff, but, and, and continue to support OpenStack, et cetera, et cetera. Because that's the future. Hybrid is the future. >>And sub g agree, disagree. >>I okay. Hybrid. Nobody can deny that the hybrid is the reality, not the future. It's a reality right now. It's, it's a necessity right now you can't do without it. Right. And okay, hybrid is very relative term. You can be like 10% here, 90% still hybrid, right? So the data center is shrinking and it will keep shrinking. Right? And >>So if by whole is the data center shrinking? >>This is where >>Quick one quick getting guys for it. How is growing by a clip? Yeah, but there's no data supporting. David Lym just came out for a report I think last year that showed that the data center is holding steady, holding steady, not growing, but not shrinking. >>Who sponsored that study? Wait, hold on. So the, that's a question, right? So more than 1 million data centers have been closed. I have, I can dig that through number through somebody like some organizations we published that maybe they're cloud, you know, people only. So the, when you get these kind of statements like it, it can be very skewed statements, right. But if you have seen the, the scene out there, which you have, I know, but I have also seen a lot of data centers walk the floor of, you know, a hundred thousand servers in a data center. I cannot imagine us consuming the infrastructure the way we were going into the future of co Okay. With, with one caveat actually. I am not big fan of like broad strokes. Like make a blanket statement. Oh no, data center's dead. Or if you are, >>That's how you get those esty headlines now. Yeah, I know. >>I'm all about to >>Put a stake in the ground. >>Actually. The, I think that you get more intelligence from the new end, right? A small little details if you will. If you're golden gold manak or Bank of America, you have so many data centers and you will still have data centers because performance matters to you, right? Your late latency matters for applications. But if you are even a Fortune 500 company on the lower end and or a healthcare vertical, right? That your situation is different. If you are a high, you know, growth startup, your situation is different, right? You will be a hundred percent cloud. So cloud gives you velocity, the, the, the pace of change, the pace of experimentation that actually you are buying innovation through cloud. It's proxy for innovation. And that's how I see it. But if you have, if you're stuck with older applications, I totally understand. >>Yeah. So the >>We need that OnPrem. Yeah, >>Well I think the, the bring your fuel sober, what we agree is that cloud is the place where innovation happens. Okay? At some point innovation becomes legacy debt and you have thus hybrid, you are not going to keep your old applications up to date forever. The, the, the math just doesn't add up. And where I differ in opinion is that not everyone needs innovation to keep moving. They need innovation for a period of time and then they need steady state. So Sergeant, we >>Argue about this. I have a, I >>Love this debate though. I say it's efficiency and stability also plays an important role. I see exactly what you're talking about. No, it's >>Great. I have a counter to that. Let me tell you >>Why. Let's >>Hear it. Because if you look at the storage only, right? Just storage. Just take storage computer network for, for a minute. There three cost reps in, in infrastructure, right? So storage earlier, early on there was one tier of storage. You say pay the same price, then now there are like five storage tiers, right? What I'm trying to say is the market sets the price, the market will tell you where this whole thing will go, but I know their margins are high in cloud, 20 plus percent and margin will shrink as, as we go forward. That means the, the cloud will become cheaper relative to on-prem. It, it, in some cases it's already cheaper. But even if it's a stable workload, even in that case, we will have a lower tier of service. I mean, you, you can't argue with me that the cloud versus your data center, they are on the same tier of services. Like cloud is a better, you know, product than your data center. Hands off. >>I love it. We, we are gonna relish in the debates between the two of you. Mic drops. The energy is great. I love it. Perspective. It's not like any of us can quite see through the crystal ball that we have very informed opinions, which is super exciting. Yeah. Lisa, any last thoughts today? >>Just love, I love the debate as well. That, and that's, that's part of what being in this community is all about. So sharing about, sharing opinions, expressing opinions. That's how it grows. That's how, that's how we innovate. Yeah. Obviously we need the cloud, but that's how we innovate. That's how we grow. Yeah. And we've seen that demonstrated the last couple days and I and your, your takes here on the Cuban on Twitter. Brilliant. >>Thank you. I absolutely love it. I'm gonna close this out with a really important analysis on the swag of the show. Yes. And if you know, yesterday we were looking at what is the weirdest swag or most unique swag We had that bucket hat that took the grand prize. Today we're gonna focus on something that's actually quite cool. A lot of the vendors here have really dedicated their swag to being local to Detroit. Very specific in their sourcing. Sonotype here has COOs. They're beautiful. You can't quite feel this flannel, but it's very legit hand sound here in Michigan. I can't say that I've been to too many conferences, if any, where there was this kind of commitment to localizing and sourcing swag from around the corner. We also see this with the Intel booth. They've got screen printers out here doing custom hoodies on spot. >>Oh fun. They're even like appropriately sized. They had local artists do these designs and if you're like me and you care about what's on your wrist, you're familiar with Shinola. This is one of my favorite swags that's available. There is a contest. Oh going on. Hello here. Yeah, so if you are Atan, make sure that you go and check this out. The we, I talked about this on the show. We've had the founder on the show or the CEO and yeah, I mean Shine is just full of class as since we are in Detroit as well. One of the fun themes is cars. >>Yes. >>And Storm Forge, who are also on the show, is actually giving away an Aston Martin, which is very exciting. Not exactly manufactured in Detroit. However, still very cool on the car front and >>The double oh seven version named the best I >>Know in the sixties. It's love it. It's very cool. Two quick last things. We talk about it a lot on the show. Every company now wants to be a software company. Yep. On that vein, and keeping up with my hat theme, the Home Depot is here because they want everybody to know that they in fact are a technology company, which is very cool. They have over 500,000 employees. You can imagine there's a lot of technology that has to go into keeping Napa. Absolutely. Yep. Wild to think about. And then last, but not at least very quick, rapid fire, best t-shirt contest. If you've ever ran to one of these events, there are a ton of T-shirts out there. I rate them on two things. Wittiest line and softness. If you combine the two, you'll really be our grand champion for the year. I'm just gonna hold these up and set them down for your laughs. Not afraid to commit, which is pretty great. This is another one designed by locals here. Detroit Code City. Oh, love it. This one made me chuckle the most. Kiss my cash. >>Oh, that's >>Good. These are also really nice and soft, which is fantastic. Also high on the softness category is this Op Sarah one. I also like their bird logo. These guys, there's just, you know, just real nice touch. So unfortunately, if you have the fumble, you're not here with us, live in Detroit. At least you're gonna get taste of the swag. I taste of the stories and some smiles hear from those of us on the cube. Thank you both so much for being here with us. Lisa, thanks for another fabulous day. Got it, girl. My name's Savannah Peterson. Thank you for joining us from Detroit. We're the cube and we can't wait to see you tomorrow.

>>Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of snowflake summit live from Caesar's forum in Las Vegas, Lisa Martin, with Dave Valante. Dave, we have had an action packed two days here, talking with loads of folks. There's been about 10,000 attendees here, the momentum, the excitement for snowflake, what they're building, what they're, what they've announced is huge. >>I'll tell you like this is a getaway day and there's still decent amount of buzz going on in the ecosystem here and the exhibit hall. And I was just saying, when you walk around Las Vegas, you'd never know the economy's about the tank with, you know, inflation is on the rise. I mean, Vegas is packed. >>It is packed it a lot of shows going on here. We are excited to welcome Patrick Barch, the senior director of product management at capital one software to the program. Patrick, it's great to have you. >>Thank you. It's great to be here. >>So we all know capital one. I love the commercials. I'm sure you have a, a large say in how fun and creative they are. Talk to us about capital one software. This is a new business software business. It >>Is. And so, you know, from our founding days in 1994, capital one has always recognized the power of data and technology to create differentiated experiences for our customers. But about 10 years ago, we declared that we were gonna reinvent the way that we build and use technology. One of the key steps in that journey was migrating from our owned and operated data centers to the public cloud. But in order to do that, we needed to build a number of products and platforms to help us operate at scale because the market just wasn't quite there yet. And so capital one software, which we announced last week, Woohoo is our first foray into bringing some of those cloud and data management products to market. >>Talk to us about you. Capital one is one of Snowflake's longest running and largest customers. How does snowflake help facilitate that >>A couple different ways? So first snowflake is a, it's a super powerful platform. They've changed the game when it comes to leveraging data. At scale in the cloud, we were an early investor. We were, we were one of their biggest customers. They've been a great partner along the way, helping us adopt the platform. But for us, when we adopted back in 2018 ish, we realized that with all of this power comes a lot of responsibility. And so we needed to make sure that we were putting good governance and good controls around our usage of snowflake from the start. And so, you know, we, we, we needed to build some, some tools to help us optimize our, our usage of snowflake. >>Okay. So you basically said we're going all in the cloud. You guys have made huge investments in, in AWS and obviously snowflake. And then now you're, you're sort of taking what you did internally and exposing it almost like, like Amazon did Amazon retail and then that's how AWS was born. Okay, awesome. What kind of results did you see internally in terms of the primary benefit? If I understand it is cost savings, but also better data management, right? Is that fair? >>So the, the totality of what we've built internally covers both cost savings, data management, data security, adherence to data privacy legislation. The product that we announced here at summit is really focused on cost optimization for snowflake, right? And so with these tools, we've been able to save about 27% on our projected snowflake costs. We've been able to save our teams about 50,000 hours of manual effort by reducing the number of change orders that they have to execute manually through automated infrastructure management. We've reduced our cost per query by about 43%. And so really what these enabled us to do is just get really efficient with how we use the system. You know, one, one of the challenges you might run into with snowflake is, is unexpected costs. And so by leveraging these tools, we've been able to make sure that our costs are predictable and consistent from month to month, which enables us to budget appropriately. >>And, and that's 50,000 hours person hours over what period of time >>Have to get back to you on the exact amounts? I mean, >>Years, months, several years. Weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, but we're talking about tens and tens of millions of dollars, right? If you, I mean, just assume a hundred bucks an hour for, for a person just fully loaded. I mean, I'll just do that math. Okay. And 20% percent on snowflake cost. So here's, here's the question? Well, well, first of all, what's the vision, what's the like gimme a five year vision for, for the software group at capital one, >>We wanna bring capital one's data and cloud management expertise to the masses. Okay. We've spoken to a number of companies that are trying to follow in our footsteps. We've, we've heard again and again, that our challenges are their challenges. Our, the path that we walked is the path that they're trying to walk in. So we are super excited about bringing all of our expertise to the market. >>So start with cost savings, but the vision transcends cost savings, absolutely going into security, privacy, data management, >>Absolutely absolutely workflow. And the, the, you know, the industry's in a super interesting place now where it's very fragmented. There is a galaxy of tools out there. You, you look around here, there's hundreds and hundreds of different solutions, but they're point solutions. They're all going after an individual piece of the management puzzle. And what we found was that we needed to create these integrated experiences that were aligned to our team's jobs to be done, not necessarily in terms of, you know, a capability like cataloging or quality or entitlements, you know, in order to efficiently operate at scale, you need to string those things together in a way that lets your team get their job done. >>So my last question on this flow is, I dunno if you're familiar with you guys, maybe familiar with Sarah Wong and Martin CASAA published a piece that got, you know, pretty wide viewing and discussion. They are out out of Andreesen, a 16 Z that the cost of good sold for SaaS companies who are born in the cloud are gonna become so overwhelming that they're gonna repatriate and start managing themselves. And they use Dropbox as an example. Now Dropbox is storage. So it's very specific niche, you know, and I've talked to many, many companies like snowflake about this, and they're like, eh, that ain't happening anytime soon. How do you feel about that? Because if you look at SAS companies that are born in the cloud, their gross margins are, you know, they don't get to 90%, but they're healthy, you know, 75, you know, sometimes 78% even snowflakes, you know, end of decade forecast Scarelli has it. I think it's 78%. And the reason it's not higher is because of the cloud cost. You gotta pay the cloud bills, my belief and I've argued, this is that's okay. I can negotiate cloud bills. I can work with tools like yours over time to keep those down. And the cloud guys are gonna be competing with each other, but, but what do you make of that Patrick >>Cloud costs? Aren't gonna go down. Data is expanding at an exponential rate. The scale of data today is orders of magnitude versus what it was in on-prem systems. And so, you know, I don't think the cloud providers are too worried because data is exploding at such a, a crazy pace. And so it really becomes about using all of those resources as efficiently as possible. And, and in the cloud where compute is fully elastic, it scales infinitely instantly on demand. You know, it's all about getting it's, it's, it's all about making sure that if you're spending more, you're getting more business value. There's not wastage in the system. >>Same question, but different. Do you feel like strategically organizations generally in capital one specifically will, will, will optimize their time on optimizing or spend their, their effort optimizing the cloud costs? Or do you feel like long term you can actually be cheaper to manage yourself? In other words, our, our cloud benefits of not doing all that heavy lifting offset that potential, you know, cost equation. >>I mean, you saved just so much time and effort and headache, not having to manage physical infrastructure. And so like, you know, snowflake, you can write a sequel command to create a database. You can write a sequel command to create a data warehouse. Like the market will not give up that level of simplicity for managing infrastructure. And so I think at the end of the day, you're gonna, you're gonna see a focus on efficiency because what you really want your teams to be focused on your old, your old DBA and data engineering teams is focused on driving customer value, not in the weeds of infrastructure management. >>And that's why I think you guys, this is a great business that you're starting. And I think you, I, frankly, I think you're gonna get a lot of competition, which is a good thing that says you're in a great business and you guys are first >>Talk about the customer experience. You know, we are also as consumers demanding, we wanna be able to transact ASAP. We wanna make sure that, you know, on the swipe fraud detection happens, how does the Slingshot help facilitate and improve the customer experience if I'm transacting or I'm gonna sign up or I'm getting a mortgage. >>So with Slingshot, we enable your company, regardless of what you do at, at capital one, we're, we're a bank to build more personalized experiences for customers in a more cost effective way. And so Enno is our, our intelligent, personal banking assistant with snowflake. We're enable Enno to do way more than we were previously for less than we would've without some of these tools. >>And that's a huge competitive differentiator because we expect as consumers and of whatever it is. We want a personalized experience, right? That's relevant. That's gonna offer us products and services that might build upon what we've already done. >>It's it's kind of table stakes these days. Yes. And so with these tools and with snowflake, we were able to onboard our business teams were able to onboard over 400 new use cases over, over that same time period. And so really what it's enabled us to do is unlock the innovative power of our company and create more of these customer experiences. >>How does the customer visualize those, those cost savings? And, and, and do, do, do you have some tooling, maybe it's in the works to help them predict what kind of cost savings they have based on some modeling that >>You do. And absolutely. So we enable teams to enforce good governance around infrastructure management, up front by building rules and enabling their teams to create warehouses, create databases. And then once that infrastructure is up and running, we give them a whole bunch of dashboards that show transparency and to spend, we enable chargebacks to lines of business in today's consumption, driven business models. It's hard to reconcile at the end of the month, if you spent what you thought you spent and, and data costs have gone from CapEx to OPEX and, but not everybody is an expert. And so we look at usage data, we look at usage history and we come up with recommendations for how you can save money by, you know, tweaking this or tweaking that or better optimizing your, your compute. >>Should we expect you as you expand your opportunity to take your expertise and aim it at AWS more broadly, maybe Redshift more specifically, Google GCP, big query Azure, what, what should we expect there? >>You know, there's, there's a lot of opportunity to help companies optimize costs across other cloud providers as well. This, this concept of elastic compute, isn't just specific to snowflake. That's certainly one path that we could go down. You know, we have a lot of expertise in, in data management as well, and data privacy, data security. And so that's that, that's another path as well that, that we have expertise in. And so, you know, I think it's, it's an exciting time we're in, we're in an exciting place, but it's early days, >>Did you do a working backwards document? Can you share that with us? >>Fortunately >>Not five, five or 10 years down the road, you may decide to do that, right? >>Yeah. Let me, let me check with my PR person to see if I'm allowed to share here. That's >>I mean, I think this is gonna be a huge success and, and I think it it's, it's, it follows a lot of the things that we've learned from AWS. Yeah. And you guys have been all in there and, and, you know, it's funny, right? We laugh about working backwards, customer obsession, two pizza teams. I mean, it really has changed the sort of way that we think about developing software and, and managing infrastructures. I, I think you're gonna have a, a huge business and I, I wish you the best. >>I, I appreciate that. And the, the thing, a lot of that statement is, you know, internal teams are now starting to demand consumer great experiences for the tools that they use. Yeah, for sure. And so one of the things that we did was treat our internal associates. Like they were external customers, we applied design thinking, we applied product management, we built our experience in terms of what are you trying to accomplish? And what's getting in your way, because that's what people have come to expect with all of these consumer experiences, >>Collaboration. That's right. What last question for you? What would you say to peers in your, whatever, same industry, other industries that are really trying to figure out how to get their hands on data to become a data company, what would you advise them? Why should they choose >>Snowflake gives you so many building blocks out of the box to help you create a, a well-managed data ecosystem? You know, the simplicity with which you can create new infrastructure, define policies for that infrastructure onboard new users. I mean, it, it's one of the platforms in internally capital one that has the highest NPS score. And so, you know, if you're looking to adopt a, a data cloud platform, I mean, snowflake is certainly high up on the list of what you should be looking at. >>That's >>Awesome. How do you, do you consider this a SA, is it a consumption or how do you price for this? >>So we, we don't have published pricing at the moment, but it is, it is a SAS product. You know, what we can share is it'll, it'll be a, you know, small fraction of, of your, of your total credit spend with snowflake and, and >>You're thinking a subscription or, or haven't figured that out yet, >>It it'll likely be a, a consumption model based on, you know. Okay. >>So the, so, so say, you know, it's funny SAS, I get it. Software's a service, but it, but because it's consumption, I think it's like modern SAS. If I can say that, you know, it's cloud >>SAS and it, it, you know, it's more important to make sure right now, because we're so early that we're actually providing the right value to customers. We have a pretty generous trial program going on right now where you can try the, the, the software out for free to make sure it, it fits your needs. So, >>Okay. So you're in trial, right. I should have clarified that you're in trial now. And, and so, yeah, of course you haven't figured out exactly how you're gonna price it yet. But >>The, the, the official posture that we're taking is public preview. We've, we've been in private preview for the last six months. We've onboarded a, a couple of customers who are starting to use the product. And so the, the big announcement this week is we're officially in public preview, come on in. >>So you gotta get product market fit. That's right. Before you figure out your pricing and before you, then you, then you're gonna scale. Great. >>What's been the feedback so far >>Overwhelmingly positive. Somebody stopped by the booth and said, oh my God, that's so cool. We've heard a lot of, wow, we need this right now. You know, it's, I had pretty, pretty high expectations coming in, just based on the value that this is created for capital one, but I've, I've been blown away by, by what I've heard from the people who've stopped by our booth. >>Awesome. Patrick, thank you for joining Dave and me on the program, talking about what you're doing with capital one software seems like you're just in early innings, but so much potential to come. We wish you the best of luck with that. And you have to come back and tell us how it's going. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me, our pleasure for Dave ante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube our day three coverage of snowflake summit 22 live from Las Vegas continues after a short break.

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave ante. >>When Frank sluman took service, now public many people undervalued the company, positioning it as just a better help desk tool. You know, it turns out that the firm actually had a massive Tam expansion opportunity in it. SM customer service, HR, logistics, security marketing, and service management. Generally now stock price followed over the years, the stellar execution under Slootman and CFO, Mike scar Kelly's leadership. Now, when they took the reins at snowflake expectations were already set that they'd repeat the feet, but this time, if anything, the company was overvalued out of the gate, the thing is people didn't really better understand the market opportunity this time around, other than that, it was a bet on Salman's track record of execution and on data, pretty good bets, but folks really didn't appreciate that snowflake. Wasn't just a better data warehouse that it was building what they call a data cloud, and we've turned a data super cloud. >>Hello and welcome to this. Week's Wikibon cube insights powered by ETR in this breaking analysis, we'll do four things. First. We're gonna review the recent narrative and concerns about snowflake and its value. Second, we're gonna share survey data from ETR that will confirm precisely what the company's CFO has been telling anyone who will listen. And third, we're gonna share our view of what snowflake is building IE, trying to become the defacto standard data platform, and four convey our expectations for the upcoming snowflake summit. Next week at Caesar's palace in Las Vegas, Snowflake's most recent quarterly results they've been well covered and well documented. It basically hit its targets, which for snowflake investors was bad news wall street piled on expressing concerns about Snowflake's consumption, pricing model, slowing growth rates, lack of profitability and valuation. Given the, given the current macro market conditions, the stock dropped below its IPO offering price, which you couldn't touch on day one, by the way, as the stock opened well above that and, and certainly closed well above that price of one 20 and folks express concerns about some pretty massive insider selling throughout 2021 and early 2022, all this caused the stock price to drop quite substantially. >>And today it's down around 63% or more year to date, but the only real substantive change in the company's business is that some of its largest consumer facing companies, while still growing dialed back, their consumption this past quarter, the tone of the call was I wouldn't say contentious the earnings call, but Scarelli, I think was getting somewhat annoyed with the implication from some analyst questions that something is fundamentally wrong with Snowflake's business. So let's unpack this a bit first. I wanna talk about the consumption pricing on the earnings call. One of the analysts asked if snowflake would consider more of a subscription based model so that they could better weather such fluctuations and demand before the analyst could even finish the question, CFO Scarelli emphatically interrupted and said, no, <laugh> the analyst might as well have asked, Hey Mike, have you ever considered changing your pricing model and screwing your customers the same way most legacy SaaS companies lock their customers in? >>So you could squeeze more revenue out of them and make my forecasting life a little bit easier. <laugh> consumption pricing is one of the things that makes a company like snowflake so attractive because customers is especially large customers facing fluctuating demand can dial and their end demand can dial down usage for certain workloads that are maybe not yet revenue producing or critical. Now let's jump to insider trading. There were a lot of insider selling going on last year and into 2022 now, I mean a lot sloop and Scarelli Christine Kleinman. Mike SP several board members. They sold stock worth, you know, many, many hundreds of millions of dollars or, or more at prices in the two hundreds and three hundreds and even four hundreds. You remember the company at one point was valued at a hundred billion dollars, surpassing the value of service now, which is this stupid at this point in the company's tenure and the insider's cost basis was very often in the single digit. >>So on the one hand, I can't blame them. You know what a gift the market gave them last year. Now also famed investor, Peter Linsey famously said, insiders sell for many reasons, but they only buy for one. But I have to say there wasn't a lot of insider buying of the stock when it was in the three hundreds and above. And so yeah, this pattern is something to watch our insiders buying. Now, I'm not sure we'll keep watching snowflake. It's pretty generous with stock based compensation and insiders still own plenty of stock. So, you know, maybe not, but we'll see in future disclosures, but the bottom line is Snowflake's business. Hasn't dramatically changed with the exception of these large consumer facing companies. Now, another analyst pointed out that companies like snap, he pointed to company snap, Peloton, Netflix, and face Facebook have been cutting back. >>And Scarelli said, and what was a bit of a surprise to me? Well, I'm not gonna name the customers, but it's not the ones you mentioned. So I, I thought I would've, you know, if I were the analyst I would've follow up with, how about Walmart target visa, Amex, Expedia price line, or Uber? Any of those Mike? I, I doubt he would've answered me anything. Anyway, the one thing that Scarelli did do is update Snowflake's fiscal year 2029 outlook to emphasize the long term opportunity that the company sees. This chart shows a financial snapshot of Snowflake's current business using a combination of quarterly and full year numbers in a model of what the business will look like. According to Scarelli in Dave ante with a little bit of judgment in 2029. So this is essentially based on the company's framework. Snowflake this year will surpass 2 billion in revenues and targeting 10 billion by 2029. >>Its current growth rate is 84% and its target is 30% in the out years, which is pretty impressive. Gross margins are gonna tick up a bit, but remember Snowflake's cost a good sold they're dominated by its cloud cost. So it's got a governor. There has to pay AWS Azure and Google for its infrastructure. But high seventies is a, is a good target. It's not like the historical Microsoft, you know, 80, 90% gross margin. Not that Microsoft is there anymore, but, but snowflake, you know, was gonna be limited by how far it can, how much it can push gross margin because of that factor. It's got a tiny operating margin today and it's targeting 20% in 2029. So that would be 2 billion. And you would certainly expect it's operating leverage in the out years to enable much, much, much lower SGNA than the current 54%. I'm guessing R and D's gonna stay healthy, you know, coming in at 15% or so. >>But the real interesting number to watch is free cash flow, 16% this year for the full fiscal year growing to 25% by 2029. So 2.5 billion in free cash flow in the out years, which I believe is up from previous Scarelli forecast in that 10, you know, out year view 2029 view and expect the net revenue retention, the NRR, it's gonna moderate. It's gonna come down, but it's still gonna be well over a hundred percent. We pegged it at 130% based on some of Mike's guidance. Now today, snowflake and every other stock is well off this morning. The company had a 40 billion value would drop well below that midday, but let's stick with the 40 billion on this, this sad Friday on the stock market, we'll go to 40 billion and who knows what the stock is gonna be valued in 2029? No idea, but let's say between 40 and 200 billion and look, it could get even ugly in the market as interest rates rise. >>And if inflation stays high, you know, until we get a Paul Voker like action, which is gonna be painful from the fed share, you know, let's hope we don't have a repeat of the long drawn out 1970s stagflation, but that is a concern among investors. We're gonna try to keep it positive here and we'll do a little sensitivity analysis of snowflake based on Scarelli and Ante's 2029 projections. What we've done here is we've calculated in this chart. Today's current valuation at about 40 billion and run a CAGR through 2029 with our estimates of valuation at that time. So if it stays at 40 billion valuation, can you imagine snowflake grow into a 10 billion company with no increase in valuation by the end, by by 2029 fiscal 2029, that would be a major bummer and investors would get a, a 0% return at 50 billion, 4% Kager 60 billion, 7%. >>Kegar now 7% market return is historically not bad relative to say the S and P 500, but with that kind of revenue and profitability growth projected by snowflake combined with inflation, that would again be a, a kind of a buzzkill for investors. The picture at 75 billion valuation, isn't much brighter, but it picks up at, at a hundred billion, even with inflation that should outperform the market. And as you get to 200 billion, which would track by the way, revenue growth, you get a 30% plus return, which would be pretty good. Could snowflake beat these projections. Absolutely. Could the market perform at the optimistic end of the spectrum? Sure. It could. It could outperform these levels. Could it not perform at these levels? You bet, but hopefully this gives a little context and framework to what Scarelli was talking about and his framework, not with notwithstanding the market's unpredictability you're you're on your own. >>There. I can't help snowflake looks like it's going to continue either way in amazing run compared to other software companies historically, and whether that's reflected in the stock price. Again, I, I, I can't predict, okay. Let's look at some ETR survey data, which aligns really well with what snowflake is telling the street. This chart shows the breakdown of Snowflake's net score and net score. Remember is ETS proprietary methodology that measures the percent of customers in their survey that are adding the platform new. That's the lime green at 19% existing snowflake customers that are ex spending 6% or more on the platform relative to last year. That's the forest green that's 55%. That's a big number flat spend. That's the gray at 21% decreasing spending. That's the pinkish at 5% and churning that's the red only 1% or, or moving off the platform, tiny, tiny churn, subtract the red from the greens and you get a net score that, that, that nets out to 68%. >>That's an, a very impressive net score by ETR standards. But it's down from the highs of the seventies and mid eighties, where high seventies and mid eighties, where snowflake has been since January of 2019 note that this survey of 1500 or so organizations includes 155 snowflake customers. What was really interesting is when we cut the data by industry sector, two of Snowflake's most important verticals, our finance and healthcare, both of those sectors are holding a net score in the ETR survey at its historic range. 83%. Hasn't really moved off that, you know, 80% plus number really encouraging, but retail consumer showed a dramatic decline. This past survey from 73% in the previous quarter down to 54%, 54% in just three months time. So this data aligns almost perfectly with what CFO Scarelli has been telling the street. So I give a lot of credibility to that narrative. >>Now here's a time series chart for the net score and the provision in the data set, meaning how penetrated snowflake is in the survey. Again, net score measures, spending velocity and a specific platform and provision measures the presence in the data set. You can see the steep downward trend in net score this past quarter. Now for context note, the red dotted line on the vertical axis at 40%, that's a bit of a magic number. Anything above that is best in class in our view, snowflake still a well, well above that line, but the April survey as we reported on May 7th in quite a bit of detail shows a meaningful break in the snowflake trend as shown by ETRS call out on the bottom line. You can see a steady rise in the survey, which is a proxy for Snowflake's overall market penetration. So steadily moving up and up. >>Here's a bit of a different view on that data bringing in some of Snowflake's peers and other data platforms. This XY graph shows net score on the vertical axis and provision on the horizontal with the red dotted line. At 40%, you can see from the ETR callouts again, that snowflake while declining in net score still holds the highest net score in the survey. So of course the highest data platforms while the spending velocity on AWS and Microsoft, uh, data platforms, outperforms that have, uh, sorry, while they're spending velocity on snowflake outperforms, that of AWS and, and Microsoft data platforms, those two are still well above the 40% line with a stronger market presence in the category. That's impressive because of their size. And you can see Google cloud and Mongo DB right around the 40% line. Now we reported on Mongo last week and discussed the commentary on consumption models. >>And we referenced Ray Lenchos what we thought was, was quite thoughtful research, uh, that rewarded Mongo DB for its forecasting transparency and, and accuracy and, and less likelihood of facing consumption headwinds. And, and I'll reiterate what I said last week, that snowflake, while seeing demand fluctuations this past quarter from those large customers is, is not like a data lake where you're just gonna shove data in and figure it out later, no schema on, right. Just throw it into the pond. That's gonna be more discretionary and you can turn that stuff off. More likely. Now you, you bring data into the snowflake data cloud with the intent of driving insights, which leads to actions, which leads to value creation. And as snowflake adds capabilities and expands its platform features and innovations and its ecosystem more and more data products are gonna be developed in the snowflake data cloud and by data products. >>We mean products and services that are conceived by business users. And that can be directly monetized, not just via analytics, but through governed data sharing and direct monetization. Here's a picture of that opportunity as we see it, this is our spin on our snowflake total available market chart that we've published many, many times. The key point here goes back to our opening statements. The snowflake data cloud is evolving well beyond just being a simpler and easier to use and more elastic cloud database snowflake is building what we often refer to as a super cloud. That is an abstraction layer that companies that, that comprises rich features and leverages the underlying primitives and APIs of the cloud providers, but hides all that complexity and adds new value beyond that infrastructure that value is seen in the left example in terms of compressed cycle time, snowflake often uses the example of pharmaceutical companies compressing time to discover a drug by years. >>Great example, there are many others this, and, and then through organic development and ecosystem expansion, snowflake will accelerate feature delivery. Snowflake's data cloud vision is not about vertically integrating all the functionality into its platform. Rather it's about creating a platform and delivering secure governed and facile and powerful analytics and data sharing capabilities to its customers, partners in a broad ecosystem so they can create additional value. On top of that ecosystem is how snowflake fills the gaps in its platform by building the best cloud data platform in the world, in terms of collaboration, security, governance, developer, friendliness, machine intelligence, etcetera, snowflake believes and plans to create a defacto standard. In our view in data platforms, get your data into the data cloud and all these native capabilities will be available to you. Now, is that a walled garden? Some might say it is. It's an interesting question and <laugh>, it's a moving target. >>It's definitely proprietary in the sense that snowflake is building something that is highly differentiatable and is building a moat around it. But the more open snowflake can make its platform. The more open source it uses, the more developer friendly and the great greater likelihood people will gravitate toward snowflake. Now, my new friend Tani, she's the creator of the data mesh concept. She might bristle at this narrative in favor, a more open source version of what snowflake is trying to build, but practically speaking, I think she'd recognize that we're a long ways off from that. And I also think that the benefits of a platform that despite requiring data to be inside of the data cloud can distribute data globally, enable facile governed, and computational data sharing, and to a large degree be a self-service platform for data, product builders. So this is how we see snow, the snowflake data cloud vision evolving question is edge part of that vision on the right hand side. >>Well, again, we think that is going to be a future challenge where the ecosystem is gonna have to come to play to fill those gaps. If snowflake can tap the edge, it'll bring even more clarity as to how it can expand into what we believe is a massive 200 billion Tam. Okay, let's close on next. Week's snowflake summit in Las Vegas. The cube is very excited to be there. I'll be hosting with Lisa Martin and we'll have Frank son as well as Christian Kleinman and several other snowflake experts. Analysts are gonna be there, uh, customers. And we're gonna have a number of ecosystem partners on as well. Here's what we'll be looking for. At least some of the things, evidence that our view of Snowflake's data cloud is actually taking shape and evolving in the way that we showed on the previous chart, where we also wanna figure out where snowflake is with it. >>Streamlet acquisition. Remember streamlet is a data science play and an expansion into data, bricks, territory, data, bricks, and snowflake have been going at it for a while. Streamlet brings an open source Python library and machine learning and kind of developer friendly data science environment. We also expect to hear some discussion, hopefully a lot of discussion about developers. Snowflake has a dedicated developer conference in November. So we expect to hear more about that and how it's gonna be leveraging further leveraging snow park, which it has previously announced, including a public preview of programming for unstructured data and data monetization along the lines of what we suggested earlier that is building data products that have the bells and whistles of native snowflake and can be directly monetized by Snowflake's customers. Snowflake's already announced a new workload this past week in security, and we'll be watching for others. >>And finally, what's happening in the all important ecosystem. One of the things we noted when we covered service now, cause we use service now as, as an example because Frank Lupin and Mike Scarelli and others, you know, DNA were there and they're improving on that service. Now in his post IPO, early adult years had a very slow pace. In our view was often one of our criticism of ecosystem development, you know, ServiceNow. They had some niche SI uh, like cloud Sherpa, and eventually the big guys came in and, and, and began to really lean in. And you had some other innovators kind of circling the mothership, some smaller companies, but generally we see sluman emphasizing the ecosystem growth much, much more than with this previous company. And that is a fundamental requirement in our view of any cloud or modern cloud company now to paraphrase the crazy man, Steve bomber developers, developers, developers, cause he screamed it and ranted and ran around the stage and was sweating <laugh> ecosystem ecosystem ecosystem equals optionality for developers and that's what they want. >>And that's how we see the current and future state of snowflake. Thanks today. If you're in Vegas next week, please stop by and say hello with the cube. Thanks to my colleagues, Stephanie Chan, who sometimes helps research breaking analysis topics. Alex, my is, and OS Myerson is on production. And today Andrew Frick, Sarah hiney, Steven Conti Anderson hill Chuck all and the entire team in Palo Alto, including Christian. Sorry, didn't mean to forget you Christian writer, of course, Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight, they helped get the word out. And Rob ho is our E IIC over at Silicon angle. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcast, wherever you listen to search breaking analysis podcast, I publish each week on wikibon.com and Silicon angle.com. You can email me directly anytime David dot Valante Silicon angle.com. If you got something interesting, I'll respond. If not, I won't or DM me@deteorcommentonmylinkedinpostsandpleasedocheckoutetr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for the insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next week. I hope if not, we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante earnings season has shown a conflicting mix of signals for software companies well virtually all firms are expressing caution over so-called macro headwinds we're talking about ukraine inflation interest rates europe fx headwinds supply chain just overall i.t spend mongodb along with a few other names appeared more sanguine thanks to a beat in the recent quarter and a cautious but upbeat outlook for the near term hello and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis ahead of mongodb world 2022 we drill into mongo's business and what etr survey data tells us in the context of overall demand and the patterns that we're seeing from other software companies and we're seeing some distinctly different results from major firms these days we'll talk more about [ __ ] in this session which beat eps by 30 cents in revenue by more than 18 million dollars salesforce had a great quarter and its diversified portfolio is paying off as seen by the stocks noticeable uptick post earnings uipath which had been really beaten down prior to this quarter it's brought in a new co-ceo and it's business is showing a nice rebound with a small three cent eps beat and a nearly 20 million dollar top line beat crowdstrike is showing strength as well meanwhile managements at microsoft workday and snowflake expressed greater caution about the macroeconomic climate and especially on investors minds his concern about consumption pricing models snowflake in particular which had a small top-line beat cited softness and effects from reduced consumption especially from certain consumer-facing customers which has analysts digging more deeply into the predictability of their models in fact barclays analyst ramo lenchow published an especially thoughtful piece on this topic concluding that [ __ ] was less susceptible to consumption headwinds than for example snowflake essentially for a few reasons one because atlas mongo's cloud managed service which is the consumption model comprises only about 60 percent of mongo's revenue second is the premise that [ __ ] is supporting core operational applications that can't be easily dialed down or turned off and three that snowflake customers it sounds like has a more concentrated customer base and due to that fact there's a preponderance of its revenue is consumption driven and would be more sensitive to swings in these consumption patterns now i'll say this first consumption pricing models are here to stay and the much preferred model for customers is consumption the appeal of consumption is i can actually dial down turn off if i need to and stop spending for a while which happened or at least happened to a certain extent this quarter for certain companies but to the point about [ __ ] supporting core applications i do believe that over time you're going to see the increased emergence of data products that will become core monetization drivers in snowflake along with other data platforms is going to feed those data products and services and become over time maybe less susceptible and less sensitive to these consumption patterns it'll always be there but i think increasingly it's going to be tied to operational revenue last two points here in this slide software evaluations have reverted to their historical mean which is a good thing in our view we've taken some air out of the bubble and returned to more normalized valuations was really predicted and looked forward to look we're still in a lousy market for stocks it's really a bear market for tech the market tends to be at least six months ahead of the economy and often not always but often is a good predictor we've had some tough compares relative to the pandemic days in tech and we'll be watching next quarter very closely because the macro headwinds have now been firmly inserted into the guidance of software companies okay let's have a look at how certain names have performed relative to a software index benchmark so far this year here's a year-to-date chart comparing microsoft salesforce [ __ ] and snowflake to the igv software heavy etf which is shown in the darker blue line which by the way it does not own the ctf does not own snowflake or [ __ ] you can see that these big super caps have fared pretty well whereas [ __ ] and especially snowflake those higher growth companies have been much more negatively impacted year to date from a stock price standpoint now let's move on let's take a financial snapshot of [ __ ] and put it next to snowflake so we can compare these two higher growth names what we've done here in this chart has taken the most recent quarters revenue and multiplied it by 4x to get a revenue run rate and we've parenthetically added a projection for the full year revenue [ __ ] as you see will do north of a billion dollars in revenue while snowflake will begin to approach three billion dollars 2.7 and run right through that that four quarter run rate that they just had last quarter and you can see snowflake is growing faster than [ __ ] at 85 percent this past quarter and we took now these most of these profit of these next profitability ratios off the current quarter with one exception both companies have high gross margins of course you'd expect that but as we've discussed not as high as some traditional software companies in part because of their cloud costs but also you know their maturity or lack thereof both [ __ ] and snowflake because they are in high growth mode have thin operating margins they spend nearly half or more than half of their revenue on growth that's the sg a line mostly the s the sales and marketing is really where they're spending money uh and and they're specialists so they spend a fair amount of their revenue on r d but maybe not as high as you might think but a pretty hefty percentage the free cash flow as a percentage of revenue line we calculated off the full year projections because there was a kind of an anomaly this quarter in the in the snowflake numbers and you can see snowflakes free cash flow uh which again was abnormally high this quarter is going to settle in around 16 this year versus mongo's six percent so strong focus by snowflake on free cash flow and its management snowflake is about four billion dollars in cash and marketable securities on its balance sheet with little or no debt whereas [ __ ] has about two billion dollars on its balance sheet with a little bit of longer term debt and you can see snowflakes market cap is about double that of mongos so you're paying for higher growth with snowflake you're paying for the slootman scarpelli execution engine the expectation there a stronger balance sheet etc but snowflake is well off its roughly 100 billion evaluation which it touched during the peak days of tech during the pandemic and just that as an aside [ __ ] has around 33 000 customers about five times the number of customers snowflake has so a bit of a different customer mix and concentration but both companies in our view have no lack of market in terms of tam okay now let's dig a little deeper into mongo's business and bring in some etr data this colorful chart shows the breakdown of mongo's net score net score is etr's proprietary methodology that measures the percent of customers in the etr survey that are adding the platform new that's the lime green at nine percent existing customers that are spending six percent or more on the platform that's the forest green at 37 spending flat that's the gray at 46 percent decreasing spend that's the pinkish at around 5 and churning that's only 3 that's the bright red for [ __ ] subtract the red from the greens and you net out to a 38 which is a very solid net score figure note this is a survey of 1500 or so organizations and it includes 150 mongodb customers which includes by the way 68 global 2000 customers and they show a spending velocity or a net score of 44 so notably higher among the larger clients and while it's a smaller sample only 27 emea's net score for [ __ ] is 33 now that's down from 60 last quarter note that [ __ ] cited softness in its european business on its earning calls so that aligns to the gtr data okay now let's plot [ __ ] relative to some other data platforms these don't all necessarily compete head to head with [ __ ] but they are in data and database platforms in the etr data set and that's what this chart shows it's an xy graph with net score or as we say spending momentum on the vertical axis and overlap or presence or pervasiveness in the data set on the horizontal axis see that red dotted line there at 40 that indicates an elevated level of spending anything above that is highly elevated we've highlighted [ __ ] in that red box which is very close to that 40 percent line it has a pretty strong presence on the x-axis right there with gcp snowflake as we've reported has come down to earth but still well elevated again that aligns with the earnings releases uh aws and microsoft they have many data platforms especially aws so their plot position reflects their broad portfolio massive size on the x-axis um that's the presence and and very impressive on the vertical axis so despite that size they have strong spending momentum and you can see the pack of others including cockroach small on the verdict on the horizontal but elevated on the vertical couch base is creeping up since its ipo redis maria db which was launched the day that oracle bought sun and and got my sequel and some legacy platforms including the leader in database oracle as well as ibm and teradata's both cloud and on-prem platforms now one interesting side note here is on mongo's earning call it clearly cited the advantages of its increasingly all-in-one approach relative to others that offer a portfolio of bespoke or what we some sometimes call horses for courses databases [ __ ] cited the advantages of its simplicity and lower costs as it adds more and more functionality this is an argument often made by oracle and they often target aws as the company with too many databases and of course [ __ ] makes that argument uh as well but they also make the argument that oracle they don't necessarily call them out but they talk about traditional relational databases of course they're talking about oracle and others they say that's more complex less flexible and less appealing to developers than is [ __ ] now oracle of course would retur we retort saying hey we now support a mongodb api so why go anywhere else we're the most robust and the best for mission critical but this gives credence to the fact that if oracle is trying to capture business by offering a [ __ ] api for example that [ __ ] must be doing something right okay let's look at why they buy [ __ ] here's an etr chart that addresses that question it's it's mongo's feature breadth is the number one reason lower cost or better roi is number two integrations and stack alignment is third and mongo's technology lead is fourth those four kind of stand out with notice on the right hand side security and vision much lower there in the right that doesn't necessarily mean that [ __ ] doesn't have good security and and good vision although it has been cited uh security concerns um and and so we keep an eye on that but look [ __ ] has a document database it's become a viable alternative to traditional relational databases meaning you have much more flexibility over your schema um and in fact you know it's kind of schema-less you can pretty much put anything into a document database uh developers seem to love it generally it's fair to say mongo's architecture would favor consistency over availability because it uses a single master architecture as a primary and you can create secondary nodes in the event of a primary failure but you got to think about that and how to architect availability into the platform and got to consider recovery more carefully now now no schema means it's not a tables and rows structure and you can again shove anything you want into the database but you got to think about how to optimize performance um on queries now [ __ ] has been hard at work evolving the platform from the early days when you go back and look at its roadmap it's been you know started as a document database purely it added graph processing time series it's made search you know much much easier and more fundamental it's added atlas that fully managed cloud database uh service which we said now comprises 60 of its revenue it's you know kubernetes integrations and kind of the modern microservices stack and dozens and dozens and dozens of other features mongo's done a really fine job we think of creating a leading database platform today that is loved by customers loved by developers and is highly functional and next week the cube will be at mongodb world and we'll be looking for some of these items that we're showing here and this this chart this always going to be main focus on developers [ __ ] prides itself on being a developer friendly platform we're going to look for new features especially around security and governance and simplification of configurations and cluster management [ __ ] is likely going to continue to advance its all-in-one appeal and add more capabilities that reduce the need to to spin up bespoke platforms and we would expect enhance enhancements to atlas further enhancements there is atlas really is the future you know maybe adding you know more cloud native features and integrations and perhaps simplified ways to migrate to the cloud to atlas and improve access to data sources generally making the lives of developers and data analysts easier that's going to be we think a big theme at the event so these are the main things that we'll be scoping out at the event so please stop by if you're in new york city new york city at mongodb world or tune in to thecube.net okay that's it for today thanks to my colleagues stephanie chan who helps research breaking analysis from time to time alex meyerson is on production as today is as is andrew frick sarah kenney steve conte conte anderson hill and the entire team in palo alto thank you kristen martin and cheryl knight helped get the word out and rob hof is our editor-in-chief over there at siliconangle remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen just search breaking analysis podcast we do publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com want to reach me email me david.velante siliconangle.com or dm me at divalante or a comment on my linkedin post and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr thanks for watching see you next time [Music] you

(digital pulsing music) >> We're back at VeeamON 2022. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with my co-host David Nicholson. I've got another mass boy coming on. Patrick Osborne is the vice president of the storage business unit at HPE. Good to see you again, my friend. It's been a long time. >> It's been way too long, thank you very much for having me. >> I can't even remember the last time we saw each other. It might have been in our studios in the East Coast. Well, it's good to be here with you. Lots have been going on, of course, we've been following from afar, but give us the update, what's new with HPE? We've done some stuff on GreenLake, we've covered that pretty extensively and looks like you got some momentum there. >> Quite a bit of momentum, both on the technology front and certainly the customer acquisition front. The message is certainly resonating with our customers. GreenLake is, that's the transformation that's fueling the future of Hewlett Packard Enterprise. So the momentum is great on the technology side. We're at well over 50 services that we're providing on the GreenLake platform. Everything from solutions and workloads to compute, networking and storage. So it's been really fantastic to see the platform and being able to really delight the customers and then the momentum on the sales and the customer acquisition side, the customers are voting with their dollars, so they're very happy with the platform, certainly from an operational perspective and a financial consumption perspective and so our target goal, which we've said a bunch of times is we want to be the hyperscaler on on-prem. We want to provide that customer experience to the folks that are investing in the platform. It's going really well. >> I'll ask you a question, as a former analyst, it could be obnoxious and so forth, so I'll be obnoxious for a minute. I wrote a piece in 2010 called At Your Storage Service, saying the future of storage and infrastructure as a service, blah, blah, blah. Now, of course, you don't want to over-rotate when there's no market, there was no market for GreenLake in 2010. Do you feel like your timing was right on, a little bit late, little bit early? Looking back now, how do you feel about that? >> Well, it's funny you say that. On the timing side, we've seen iterations of this stops and start forever. >> That's true. Financial gimmicks. >> I started my career at Sun Microsystems. We talked about the big freaking Web-tone switch and a lot of the network is the computer. You saw storage networks, you've seen a lot, a ton of iterations in this category, and so, I think the timing's right right now. Obviously, the folks in the hyperscaler class have proved out that this is something that's working. I think for us, the big thing that's really resonating with the customers is they want the operational model and they want the consumption model that they're getting from that as a service experience, but they still are going to run a number of their workloads on-prem and that's the best place to do it for them economically and we've proved that out. So I think the time is here to have that bifurcated experience from operational and financial perspective and in the past, the technology wasn't there and the ability to deliver that for the customers in a manner that was useful wasn't there. So I think the timing's perfect right now to provide them. >> As you know, theCUBE has had a presence at HPE Discover. Previous, even HP Discover and same with Veeam. But we got a long history with HP/HPE. When Hewlett Packard split into two companies, we made the observation, Wow, this opens up a whole new ecosystem opportunity for HPE generally, in storage business specifically, especially in data protection and backup, and the Veeam relationship, the ink wasn't dry and all of a sudden you guys were partnering, throwing joint activities, and so talk about how that relationship has evolved. >> From my perspective, we've always been a big partnering company, both on the route to market side, so our distributors and partners, and we work with them in big channel business. And then on the software partnership side, that's always evolving and growing. We're a very open ecosystem and we like to provide choice for our customers and I think, at the end of the day, we've got a lot of things that we work on jointly, so we have a great value prop. First phase of that relationship was partnering, we've got a full boat of product integrations that we do for customers. The second was a lot of special sauce that we do for our customers for co-integration and co-development. We had a huge session today with Rick Vanover and Frederico on our team here to talk about ransomware. We have big customers suffering from this plague right now and we've done a lot together on the engineering side to provide a very, very well-engineered, well thought out process to help avoid some of these things. And so that wave, too, of how do we do a ton of co-innovation together to really delight our customers and help them run their businesses, and I think the evolution of where we're going now, we have a lot of things that are very similar, strategically, in terms of, we all talk about data services and outcomes for our customers. So at the end of the day, when we think about GreenLake, like our virtual machine backup as a service or disaster recovery, it's all about what workloads are you running, what are the most important ones, where do you need help protecting that data? And essentially, how can we provide that outcome to you and you pay it as an outcome. And so we have a lot of things that we're working on together in that space. >> Let's take a little bit of a closer look at that. First of all, I'm from California, so I'm having a really hard time understanding what either of you were saying. Your accents are so thick. >> We could talk in Boston. >> Your accents are so thick. (Dave laughing) I could barely, but I know I heard you say something about Veaam at one point. Take a closer look at that. What does that look like from a ransomware perspective in terms of this concept of air gaping or immutable, immutable volumes and just as an aside, it seems like Veeam is a perfect partnership for you since customers obviously are going to be in hybrid mode for a long time and Veeam overlays that nicely. But what does it look like specifically? Immutable, air gap, some of the things we've been hearing a lot about. >> I'm exec sponsor for a number of big HPE customers and I'll give you an example. One of our customers, they have their own cloud service for time management and essentially they're exploited and they're not able to provide their service. It has huge ripple effect, if you think about, on inability to do their service and then how that affects their customers and their customers' employees and all that. It's a disaster, no pun intended. And the thing is, we learn from that and we can put together a really good architectures and best practices. So we're talking today about 3-2-1-1, so having three copies of your data, two different types of media, having an offline copy, an offsite copy and an offline copy. And now we're thinking about all the things you need to do to mitigate against all the different ways that people are going to exploit you. We've seen it all. You have keys that are erased, primary storage that is compromised and encrypted, people that come in and delete your backup catalog, they delete your backups, they delete your snapshots. So they get it down to essentially, "I'm either going to have one set of data, it's encrypted, I'm going to make you pay for it," and 40 percent of the time they pay and they get the data back, 60 percent of the time they pay and they get maybe some of the data back. But for the most part, you're not getting your data back. The best thing that we can do for our customers that come with a very prescriptive set of T-shirt configuration sizes, standardization, best practices on how they can take this entire ecosystem together and make it really easy for the customers to implement. But I wouldn't say, it's never bulletproof, but essentially, do as much as you can to avoid having to pay that ransomware. >> So 3-2-1-1, three copies, meaning local. >> Patrick: Yeah. >> So you can do fast recovery if you need to. Two different types of media, so tape fits in here? Not necessarily flashing and spinning disks. Could it be tape? >> A lot of times we have customers that have almost four different types. So they are running their production on flash. We have Alletras with HPE networking and servers running specific workloads, high performance. We have secondary storage on-prem for fast recovery and then we have some form of offsite and offline. Offsite could be object storage in the cloud and then offline would be an actual tape backup. The tape is out of the tape library in a vault so no one can actually access it through the network and so it's a physical copy that's offline. So you always have something to restore. >> Patrick, where's the momentum today, specifically, we're at VeeamON, but with regard to the Veeam partnership, is it security and ransomware, which is a new thing for this world. The last two years, it's really come to the top. Is it cloud migration? Is it data services and data management? Where's the momentum, all of the above, but maybe you could help us parse that. >> What we're seeing here at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, especially through GreenLake, is just an overall focus on data services. So what we're doing is we've got great platforms, we always had. HPE is known as an engineering company. We have fantastic products and solutions that customers love. What we're doing right now is taking, essentially, a lot of the beauty of those products and elevating them into an operational experience in the cloud, so you have a set of platforms that you want to run, you have machine critical platform, business critical, secondary storage, archival, data analytics and I want to be able to manage those from the cloud. So fleet management, HCI management, protocol management, block service, what have you, and then I want a set of abstracted data services that are on top of it and that's essentially things like disaster recovery, backup, data immutability, data vision, understanding what kind of data you have, and so we'll be able to provide those services that are essentially abstracted from the platforms themselves that run across multiple types of platforms. We can charge them on outcome based. They're based on consumption, so you think about something like DR, you have a small set of VMs that you want to protect with a very tight RPO, you can pay for those 100 VMs that are the most important that you have. So for us driving that operational experience and then the cloud data service experience into GreenLake gives customers a really, gives them a cloud experience. >> So have you heard the term super cloud? >> Patrick: Yeah. (chuckles) >> Have you? >> Patrick: Absolutely. >> It's term that we kind of coined, but I want to ask you about it specifically, in terms of how it fits into your strategy. So the idea is, and you kind of just described it, I think, whether your data is on-prem, it's in the cloud, multiple clouds, we'll talk about the edge later, but you're hiding the underlying complexities of the cloud's APIs and primitives, you're taking care of that for your customers, irrespective of physical location. It's the common experience across all those platforms. Is that a reasonable vision, maybe, even from a technical standpoint, is it part of HPE strategy and what does it take to actually do that, 'cause it sounds nice, but it's probably pretty intense? >> So the proof's in the pudding for us. We have a number of platforms that are providing, whether it's compute or networking or storage, running those workloads that they plum up into the cloud, they have an operational experience in the cloud and now they have data services that are running in the cloud for us in GreenLake. So it's a reality. We have a number of platforms that support that. We're going to have a set of big announcements coming up at HPE Discover. So we led with Alletra and we have a block service, we have VM backup as a service and DR On top of that. That's something that we're providing today. GreenLake has over, I think, it's actually over 60 services right now that we're providing in the GreenLake platform itself. Everything from security, single sign on, customer IDs, everything, so it's real. We have the proof point for it. >> So, GreenLake is essentially, I've said it, it's the HPE cloud. Is that a fair statement? >> A hundred percent. >> You're redefining cloud. And one of the hallmarks of cloud is ecosystem. Roughly, and I want to talk more about you got to grow that ecosystem to be successful in cloud, no question about it. And HPE's got the chops to do that. What percent of those services are HPE versus ecosystem partners and how do you see that evolving over time? >> We have a good number of services that are based on HPE, our tried and true intellectual property. >> You got good tech. >> Absolutely, so a number of that. And then we have partners in GreenLake today. We have a pretty big ecosystem and it's evolving, too. So we have customers and partners that are focused, our customers want our focus on data services. We have a number of opportunities and partnerships around data analytics. As you know, that's a really dynamic space. A lot of folks providing support on open source, analytics and that's a fast moving ecosystem, so we want to support that. We've seen a lot of interest in security. Being able to bring in security companies that are focused on data security. Data analytics to understand what's in your data from a customer perspective, how to secure that. So we have a pretty big ecosystem there. Just like our path at HPE, we've always had a really strong partnership with tons of software companies and we're going to continue to do that with GreenLake. >> You guys have been partner-friendly, I'll give you that. I'm going to ask Antonio this at Discover in a couple of weeks, but I want to ask you, when you think about, again, to go back to AWS as the prototypical cloud, you look at a Snowflake and a Redshift. The Redshift guys probably hate Snowflake, but the EC2 guys love them, sell a lot of compute. Now you as a business unit manager, do you ever see the day where you're side by side with one of your competitors? I'm guessing Antonio would say absolutely. Culturally, how does that play inside of HPE? I'm testing your partner-friendliness. How would you- >> Who will you- >> How do you think about that? >> At the end of the day, for us, the opportunity for us is to delight our customers. So we've always talked about customer choice and how to provide that best outcome. I think the big thing for us is that, from a cost perspective, we've seen a lot of customers coming back to HPE repatriation, from a repatriation perspective for a certain class of workloads. From my perspective, we're providing the best infrastructure and the best operational services at the best price at scale for these costumers. >> Really? It definitely, culturally, HPE has to, I think you would agree, it has to open up. You might not, you're going to go compete, based on the merit- >> Absolutely. >> of your product and technology. The repatriation thing is interesting. 'Cause I've always been a repatriation skeptic. Are you actually starting to see that in a meaningful way? Do you think you'll see it in the macro numbers? I mean, cloud doesn't seem to be slowing down, the public cloud growth, I mean, the 35, 40 percent a year. >> We're seeing it in our numbers. We're seeing it in the new logo and existing customer acquisition within GreenLake. So it's real for us. >> And they're telling you? Pure cost? >> Cost. >> So it's that's simple. >> Cost. >> So, they get the cloud bill, you do, too. I'd get the email from my CFO, "Why the cloud bill so high this month?" Part of that is it's consumption-based and it's not predictable. >> And also, too, one of the things that you said around unlocking a lot of the customer's ability from a resourcing perspective, so if we can take care of all the stuff underneath, the under cloud for the customer, the platform, so the stores, the serving, the networking, the automation, the provisioning, the health. As you guys know, we have hundreds of thousands of customers on the Aruba platform. We've got hundreds of thousands of customers calling home through InfoSight. So we can provide a very rich set of analytics, automated environment, automated health checking, and a very good experience that's going to help them move away from managing boxes to doing operational services with GreenLake. >> We talk about repatriation often. There was a time when I think a lot of us would've agreed that no one who was born in the cloud will ever do anything other than grow in the cloud. Are you seeing organizations that were born in the cloud realizing, "Hey, we know what our 80 percent steady state is and we've modeled this. Why rent it when we can own it? Or why rent it here when we can have it as operational cost there?" Are you seeing those? >> We're seeing some of that. We're certainly seeing folks that have a big part of their native or their digital business. It's a cost factor and so I think, one of the other areas, too, that we're seeing is there's a big transformation going on for our partners as well, too, on the sell-through side. So you're starting to see more niche SaaS offerings. You're starting to see more vertically focused offerings from our service provider partners or MSPs. So it's not just in either-or type of situation. You're starting to see now some really, really specific things going on in either verticals, customer segmentation, specific SaaS or data services and for us, it's a really good ecosystem, because we work with our SP partners, our MSP partners, they use our tech, they use our services, they provide services to our joint customers. For example, I know you guys have talked to iland here in the past. It's a great example for us for customers that are looking for DR as a service, backup as a service hosting, so it's a nice triangle for us to be able to please those customers. >> They're coming on to tomorrow. They're on 11/11. I think you're right on. The one, I think, obvious place where this repatriation could happen, it's the Sarah Wong and Martin Casano scenario where a SaaS companies cost a good sold become dominated by cloud costs. And they say, "Okay, well, maybe, I'm not going to build my own data centers. That's probably not going to happen, but I can go to Equinix and do a colo and I'm going to save a ton of dough, managing my own infrastructure with automation or outsourcing it." So Patrick, got to go. I could talk with you forever. Thank you so much for coming back in theCUBE. >> Always a pleasure. >> Go, Celts. How you feeling about the, we always talk sports here in VeeamON. How are you feeling about the Celts today? >> My original call today was Celtics in six, but we'll see what happens. >> Stephen, you like Celtics? Celtics six. >> Stephen: Celtics six. >> Even though tonight, they got a little- >> Stephen: Still believe, you got to believe. >> All right, I believe. >> It'd be better than the Miami's Mickey Mouse run there, in the bubble, a lot of astronauts attached to that. (Dave laughing) >> I love it. You got to believe here on theCUBE. All right, keep it right- >> I don't care. >> Keep it right there. You don't care, 'cause you're not from a sports town. Where are you in California? >> We have no sports. >> All right, keep it right there. This is theCUBE's coverage of VeeamON 2022. Dave Vellante for Dave Nicholson. We'll be right back. (digital music)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here in San Francisco, California of AWS summit, 2022. I'm John Farry host of the cube AWS summit in New York city. Coming up in the summer. We'll be there as well for live interviews there. Events are back and we're excited. I have a great guest here y'all you of CEO and co-founder and Juna security based outta Palo Alto. Great to have you coming on the queue. Appreciate it. Yeah. >>Thanks. >>Thanks for having, so tell us about what you guys are doing. You guys have a really cool cost of confidential computing. Take a minute to explain what the company does. >>Sure. So, uh, at high level confidential computing is the ability to take any workload, any piece of data, regardless of sensitive, it is and run it completely isolated, completely private, completely protected, essentially on any infrastructure, uh, and that enables organizations to take any, any workload and move it to UN you know, um, sensitive, potential sensitive locations, like the public cloud, where somebody else is managing your infrastructure. >>So basically the problem you solve is you provide security layer for workloads. >>Exactly. >>Exactly's also govern in security issues, but also just general hacking, >>Right? Oh, ex exactly. Essentially any, any organization having any type of sensitive information, think about, you know, financial services, think about healthcare, think about, you know, oil and gas that need to protect the data where they're gonna drill next. Any, any kind of organization that has sensitive information has that issue and needs to protect data in any environment they run in. >>So Amazon would be like, wait a minute. We're secure. What come on. >>Uh, actually AWS is, uh, is one of our partners and we we're actually building on top of, uh, a new technology that AWS, uh, built called, uh, nitro enclaves. And actually all the public clouds have built a technology like this. Uh, the reason why they've done this is to security and privacy are the number one. And number two reasons why people don't move more workloads to the public cloud. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So what the public clouds have done is added this technology to be able to tell their customers one is we don't have any access to your data running on top of our infrastructure. And number two, be able to turn to the government and tell them, uh, during the case with the iPhone and, uh, the FBI or the FBI to apple asked him for data on the iPhone. Yeah. And apple said, we just can't, we don't have access to that data. This is exactly what the public clouds want to be able to do, turn to the government and tell them we just don't have access to our customer's data. >>Wow. That's gonna put a lot of pressure. So talk about the surface area of attacks. How has that changed? What do you guys, what's your role in that obviously this no perimeter anymore in the cloud, the security is dead. That's a huge issue. >>Yeah, of course. So, so I guess what we fit into this, as I mentioned, all the clouds added, uh, this technology, uh, what we fit in is very similar to what VMware did for virtualization, right? Virtualization was this extremely powerful technology that everybody knew was going to change the world. You wouldn't have the public cloud without virtualization. Uh, the problem was, it was very difficult to use very, very low level because it was a hardware technology. And then every, uh, vendor built a different technology. This is exactly the case now with confidential computing, every cloud added, uh, uh, a hardware level technology to go support this. But one it's very low level. It's very, very difficult to use. And every cloud added the different technology, which makes it even harder for organizations to go use. We added a softer stack exactly like VE VMware did for virtualization to make it super simple, to use and ubiquitous across the different clouds. >>How did you come up with the idea? What did this all come from? Were you scratching and inch and security? Did you have one of those things like, Hey, I can solve this problem. What's the origination story? Where did this all start? >>Yeah, it's actually, so I I've been in security for, you know, over 20 years now. Um, and I kept running into that same problem. Right. I, I was in the, I was actually in, um, unit 8,200, which is the really equivalent of the NSA. Uh, I was then, uh, in the private sector and I was, uh, a bunch of companies open DNS, Cisco, and, and I kept running into that same issue. And when you kind of peeled the layers of the onion of what the core security problem was, it always came back to how do you protect data while it's being used, which is essentially the core, the same sort of core problem, the confidential computing solves. Um, but there was never a solution. There was never a way to solve this. Uh, and, uh, above four years ago, my co-founder, uh, just finished his PhD at Stanford and he ran into, there's finally a way to do this. Finally, the CPU vendors have built something in, uh, the clouds are going to adopt this. This is going to allow you to one finally solve that huge problem that always existed. And, and number two, this allows you to kind of rearchitect security the right way, uh, because this has always been the core problem that people try to somehow mitigate never having a good solution. >>It's like putting a rapper around it, an envelope and saying secure. >>Exactly. So was this >>PhD working at Stanford in parallel to industry momentum at the same time Sarah Diply? Or was it kind of like, was he working with partners already in his program? >>Yeah, so he just, uh, this was something was happening and this is, uh, this has been going on for, well over a decade. It, it actually funny enough, it started with the, uh, with cell phones. I dunno if you ever thought, you know, what happens if you lose your phone, you have the biometric data, right? Your fingerprint or your face ID. Can somebody get that information out the phone if you lose it? And what the, the phone vendors have done is basically put techn, confidential computing technology to make sure that even if somebody gets physical access to your device, they're not going to be able to get access to that data. And what the, the evolution was is that the Intel AMD, the CPU vendors have realized, wait, this is a really, really great idea. Yeah, you should put it on the server side as well. >>And that started with Intel in 2015. So this has been an evolution, uh, and now essentially every, every one of the CPU vendors is now supporting this. You have Intel and R and AMD and video just announced, uh, their confidential, uh, uh, GPU solution, uh, all the clouds and I've adopted this. Uh, so my, my co-founder when he ran into this, this was as this was, uh, starting to, to happen. He got extremely excited, but he has noticed a big problem of everyone is coming up with different solutions. We're gonna need to build a layer, a software layer on top of this, uh, to, so >>You have, you have to get this to be de facto >>Exactly standard. >>Oh, how's that going? So Amazon's a partner, >>Amazon's a partner. Aw. Uh, Azure is a partner. Uh, we can run on top of essentially any, any one of the clouds out there >>They're enabling you to do that. Cuz they're they want to buy into security. >>Exactly. They want the benefit. Exactly. They want tell their customers, you can move anything to the cloud because we don't have any access to your data. This helps us, them essentially sell cloud >>A couple things around. Um, I want to ask about performance, but before I get to that, yep. It seems like this whole protective data thing has always been like a database thing. Not so much low level re resetting, if you will, it's almost a reset. It's not like just protect your data in the database. >>Oh yeah. Yes. It's different. Yes, exactly. It's funny because uh, you bring sort of the right exact right point. Really. You kind of think about where data can reside. There're essentially three locations. There's data at rest, which is essentially data in a database or file system. There's data in transit, which is data on the, you know, in the network. Yep. Uh, and then there's data use and the data and use piece is essentially when an application needs to process data, it has to decry it and load it completely in the clear, in memory in order to process it. Got it. And at that point, the data is not decade. This is why it's so hard for organizations to move data to the cloud or to run data and geographies where they're not, you know, they don't trust the government or don't trust the, the admins. >>So injecting some malware or vulnerability or attack in the workload while it's running is just another attack, vector. >>Exactly. Or just, or just stealing the data. If you, if you have access to the infrastructure, if you can run code, you can then just basically look in the memory and get all the data out of it. And, and to some extent, even the, the, the encryption keys you use for data, rest those keys, leaving the clear in memory. So even that hasn't been completely solved. Got it. Now that you have this component, you can finally solve, you know, solved our problem and protect the data regardless of where it resides. >>All right. So I gotta a performance question cause remember going, even back to the earlier encryption. Yeah. There's always overhead penalty. Yes. But cloud's a beautiful thing you can spend compute up and you're talking about now, the, the CPU vendors are kind of getting involved. >>Yes. Talk >>About the security, uh, how you mitigate that. Is it an issue? No issue. Why? Yeah, >>Actually, actually, uh, you talk about performance because I think this is a really, really great point. What's nice about this. Uh, and uh, this is why the, the, the, the sort of the benefit of the CPU vendors doing this performance has always essentially had two underlying issues. One is performance, as you mentioned. And the other one is ease of use. This is, this is sort of the, the piece we add to that. We make it super simple to use when you can take essentially any workload and run it securely on top of any, any one of these solutions and the performing thing, the, the heavy lifting is done by the hardware vendors themselves, which means there's a another, uh, chip next to the CPU that does all the heavy lifting encryption, which is very similar. I don't know if you remember the, uh, um, uh, the TLS, you know, the SL acceleration cards. Yeah. This was exactly the same thing. It was this, you know, chip outside the CPU. So it's not, uh, in the sort of the critical path that does all the heavy lifting. And this is what allowed, uh, TLS or HTB TTP HTTPS to become the default where you now protect every website. And this is sort of when security becomes transparent and there's no performance impact, like why, why would you use it for everything? >>It becomes a no brainer unless there's legacy baggage, right. >>In >>Dogma around use this approach, culture issue, or technical, right. Unwind those two, two things. So what's your a take on that? What's your react. Culture's easy. Just like, I think that's easy to fix. We want better security get on board or see you later. Exactly. Technical architecture could be an inhibitor. How do you see that is the blocker? How do you unwind that? How do you get that to >>Reset? So it's exactly the value that we bring to the table. We build a software stack to make it super simple. You don't need to, you know, you don't need to rewrite the application. You don't need to recompile, it's essentially security becoming a part of the infrastructure. You essentially have security as just a piece of the infrastructure that makes it super simple to get a no brainer. Yeah, exactly. The way, you know, TLS was it's. Yeah. We're a software vendor. >>All right. So how do I see it integrating with Amazon? It's gonna get into the chip level. They're enabling hooks for you. Exactly. That's how it works. >>So there's essentially the, uh, all the cloud vendors have enabled these technologies for Amazon it's yeah. It's essentially this hardware capability. We, we have access to it and we're a software layer on top of it to make it simple, similar to, again, what M VMware did for virtualization and what, um, some extent, this is what, uh, Microsoft has done for the CPU, what windows is right. Every time there's a new, really amazing hardware, hardware, uh, feature. You need a software sec on top of it to make it simple use. >>What's great about the cloud is, is that you kind of have that whole operating system mindset now being democratized across everything. Right. I mean, it's a systems thinking in software, right. With all the cap X of the cloud. Yes. And you're decoupled from it and you're riding on top of >>It. Exactly. >>It's an amazing opportunity as a co-founder or just if, if there was no cloud, how hard were this to be the two <laugh>, I mean, like almost impossible. Yep. So very cool. All right. Take a minute to explain what you guys are working on. How big is the company, what you guys are doing right now, you're hiring, you're looking for people funding, give a, give some, uh, give, give some, give a plug to the company. >>Sure. So, uh, we're, uh, we're a series B company, uh, lost, uh, raised 30 million from insight in the last round. Um, we're, uh, we're about 80 people right now. We're growing extremely aggressively. Um, mostly on the salsa and the cells go to market side just because of the demand that we're seeing in the market, but we're also growing on the engineering side. So again, if, uh, we're always happy to talk to >>Side about Palo Alto probably have remote teams, >>Uh, we're based in Palo Alto. So the, the, the, the sort of headquarters and most of the team is in Palo Alto, but yeah, we're very open to remote. We have now engineers in all across the us, and also outside the us as well, just because COVID made it sort of very easy to, to do >>That. Right. I mean, you got a good product, great idea, and a great opportunity. I mean, this is, you know, Dave LAN and I had at a VM world, I think it was like 2013. Now we're dating ourselves. <laugh> this is when we started covering AWS. Yep. He asked pat Gelsinger, it might have been 2015. Cause the CEO of VMware at the time. Yeah. Is security a Doover. Yep. And he's like, absolutely. And this is now happening. This is a security Mulligan, a redo over, this is what we need. Right. >>Exactly. And this is why, so, uh, we're part of a, uh, something called the confidential computing consortium, which essentially has all the large, all the, you know, the cloud vendors, the CPU vendors, VMware is a part of this as well. Basically the, this is sort of too big of a shift for these large organizations to ignore the, and uh, yeah. VMware is definitely going to have a, a part of >>This. Awesome. Well, congratulations. You guys are gonna probably be really huge or get bought out pretty quickly. <laugh> we're I think >>This, this is a huge, this is just a huge opportunity. We can become the VMware of security. So I think this is, you know, I'm hoping to stay independent. >>Yeah. Congratulations on a great venture. Love the idea. And again, every application should run this way. It's no, uh, if you can get that security built in yep. You gotta shield. Right. You wrap it up, probe it anywhere exactly made the best cloud >>Win. Exactly. Right. Exactly. >>And that's, what's gonna happen. That's >>That's >>Why I love the Silicon angle of Amazon Silicon play. Yes. As that Silicon gets better. >>Yes. >>It only helps this, these kinds of use cases. Right? >>Exactly. We, we, again, we, we leverage, we leverage these technologies and to some extent, this is, this is actually part of the, the value we talk to customers about, because this is sort of the cutting edge of technology and security. And this keeps evolving. As, as I mentioned in video, just announced their confidential GPS. We provide this layer on top of it where organizations don't have to go and kind of rebuild every application as this evolves and just use our people >>Who know me in the cube know I'm a Hawk when it comes to cybersecurity. I think the red line is people operating below the red line. And, and why should companies have to provision their own militia? Exactly. This is essentially the shield they can put up. Exactly. And not rely on the government who just know what they're doing. Exactly. >>So get exactly security should be easy. Should be, should be us everywhere. I >>Should you get a lot of banking customers, FinTech customers coming on board. Exactly. Right. Outta the gate. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the queue. Yeah. Appreciate. Thank you. Live coverage here. San Francisco, California. I'm John farrier with the cube. We'll be right back with more after this short break.

>>Okay, welcome back everyone to San Francisco, live coverage here with the cube 80, be summit 2022. We're back in person. I'm John furry host of the cube. We'll be at the 80 us summit in New York city. This summer, check us out then. But right now, two days in San Francisco, getting all the coverage what's going on in the cloud, we got a cube, alumni and friend of the cube. I dos car CEO, investor, a Sierra, and also an investor and a bunch of startups, angel investor. I'm gonna do great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube. Good to see you. Good to see. See you, sir. Chris pump. Cool. How are you? >>Good. How are you? >>So congratulations on all your investments. Uh, you've made a lot of great successes over the past couple years and your company raising some good cash as Sarah. So give us the update. How much cash have you guys raised? What's the status of the company product what's going on? >>First of all, thank you for having me. We're back to be business with you never while after. Great to see you. Um, so I, as the company started around four years back, I invested with a few of the investors and now I'm the CEO. Um, we have raised close to a hundred million there. The investors are people like nor west Menlo, true ventures, coast, lo ventures, Ram Shera, and all those people all well known guys, Andy Beel chime Paul Mo Mayard web. So a whole bunch of operating people and, uh, Silicon valley vs are involved >>And has it gone? >>It's going well. We are doing really well. We are going almost 300% year over year. Uh, for last three years, the space ISRA is going after is what I call the applying AI for customer service. It operations, it help desk, uh, the same place I used to work at ServiceNow. We are partners with ServiceNow to take, how can we argument for employees and customers, Salesforce, and service now to take it the next stage? Well >>Of having you on the cube, Dave and I, David ante as well loves having you on too, because you not only bring the entrepreneurial CEO experience, you're an investor. You're like a, you're like a guest analyst. <laugh> >>You know who done? You >>Get the comment, this fun to talk to you though, you >>Get the commentary, you you're your finger on the pulse. Um, so I gotta ask you obviously, AI and machine learning, machine learning AI, or you want to phrase isn't every application. Now, AI first, uh, you're seeing a lot of that going on. You're starting to see companies build the modern applications at the top of the stack. So the cloud scale has hit. We're seeing cloud scale. You predicted that we talked about in the cube many times. Now you have that past layer with a lot more services and cloud native becoming a standard layer. Containerizations growing Docker just raised a hundred million on a 2 billion valuation back from the debt after they pivoted from an enterprise services. So open source developers are booming. Um, where's the action. I mean, is there data control, plane emerging, AI needs data. There's a lot of challenges around this. There's a lot of discussions and a lot of companies being funded, observability there's 10 million observability companies. Data is the key. What's your angle on this? What's your take? Yeah, >>No, look, I think I'll give you the view that I see right from my side. Obviously data is very clear. So the things that system of recorded you and me talked about the next layer is called system of intelligence. That's where the AI will play. Like we talk cloud native, it'll be called AI. Native NATO is a new buzzword and using the AI for customer service it operations. We talk about observability. I call it AI ops, applying ops for good old it operations management, cloud management. So you'll see the AOPs applied for whole list of, uh, application from observability doing the CMDB, predicting the events incidents. So I see a lot of work clicking for AIOps and AI service desk. What used to be help desk with ServiceNow BMC <inaudible> you see a new, a layer emerging as a system of intelligence. Uh, the next would be is applying AI with workflow automation. So that's where you'll see a lot of things called customer workflows, employee workflows. So think of what UI path automation, anywhere ServiceNow are doing, that area will be driven with AI workflows. So you'll see AI going off >>Is RPA a company is AI, is RPA a feed of something bigger? Or can someone have a company on RPA UI pass? One will be at their event this summer? Um, is it a product company? I mean, I mean, RPA is almost, should be embedded in everything. It's a feature. >>It is very good point. Very, very good thing. So one is, it's the category for sure. Like it's a category, it's an area where RPA maybe change the name. I call it much more about automation, workflow automation, but RPA and automation is a category. Um, it's a company also, but that automation should be ed in every area. Yeah. Like we call cloud NATO and AI NATO. It'll become automation. NATO. Yeah. And that's your thinking? So >>It's most interesting me. I think about the, what you're talking about. What's coming to my is I'm kinda having flashbacks to the old software model of middleware. Remember at middleware, it was very easy to understand it was middleware. It sat between two things and then the middle and it was software abstraction. Now you have all kinds of workflows abstractions everywhere. So multiple databases, it's not a monolithic thing. Right? Right. So as you break that down, is this the new modern middleware? Because what you're talking about is data workflows, but they might be siloed. Are they integrated? I mean, these are the challenges. This is crazy. What's the, >>So don't put the database became called polyglot databases. Yeah. I call this one polyglot automation. So you need automation as a layer, as a category, but you also need to put automation in every area like you you're talking about. It should be part of service. Now it should be part of ISRA, like every company, every Salesforce. So that's why you see it. MuleSoft and Salesforce buying RPA companies. So you'll see all the SaaS companies, cloud companies having an automation as a core. So it's like how you have a database and compute and sales and networking. You'll also have an automation as a layer <inaudible> inside every stack. >>All right. So I wanna shift gears a little bit and get your perspective on what's going on behind us. You can see, uh, behind us, you got the expo hall, got, um, we're back to vents, but you got, you know, AMD, Clum, Ove, uh, Dynatrace data, dog, innovative all the companies out here that we know. And we interview them all. They're trying to be suppliers to this growing enterprise market. Right. Okay. But now you also got the entrepreneurial equation. Okay. We're gonna have John Sado on from Deibel later today. He's a former NEA guy and we always talk to Jerry, Jen. We know all the, the VCs. What does the startups look like? What does the, to of the, in your mind, cuz you, I know you invest the entrepreneurial founder situation. Cloud's bigger. Mm-hmm <affirmative> global, right? Data's part of it. You mentioned data's code. Yes. Basically. Data's everything. What's it like for a first an entrepreneur right now who's starting a company. What's the white space. What's the attack plan. How do they get in the market? How do they engineer everything? >>Very good. So I'll give it to two things that I'm seeing out there. Remember days of Amazon created the startups 15 years back, everybody built on Amazon now Azure and GCP. The next layer would be is people don't just build on Amazon. They're going build it on top of snowflake. Companies are snowflake becomes the data platform, right? People will build on snowflake. Right? So I, my old boss Blankman trying to build companies on snowflake. So you don't build it just on Amazon. You build it on Amazon and snowflake. Snowflake will become your data store. Snowflake will become your data layer. Right? So I think that's the next level of <inaudible> trying to do that. So if I'm doing observability AI ops, if I'm doing next level of Splunk SIM, I'm gonna build it on snowflake, on Salesforce, on Amazon, on Azure, et cetera. >>It's interesting. You know, Jerry Chan has it put out a thesis a couple months ago called castles in the cloud where your moat is, what you do in the cloud. Not necessarily in the, in the IP. Um, Dave LAN and I had last reinvent, coined the term super cloud. Right's got a lot of traction and a lot of people throwing, throwing mud at us, but we were, our thesis was, is that what Snowflake's doing? What Goldmans Sachs is doing. You're starting to see these clouds on top of clouds. So Amazon's got this huge CapEx advantage. And guys like Charles Fitzgerald out there who we like was kind of shitting on us saying, Hey, you guys terrible, they didn't get him. Like, yeah, I don't think he gets it, but that's a whole, can't wait to debate him publicly on this. He's cool. Um, but snowflake is on Amazon. Yes. Now they say they're on Azure now. Cause they've got a bigger market and they're public, but ultimately without a AWS snowflake doesn't exist and, and they're reimagining the data warehouse with the cloud, right? That's the billion dollar opportunity. >>It is. It is. They both are very tight. So imagine what Frank has done at snowflake and Amazon. So if I'm a startup today, I want to everything on Amazon where possible whatever is, I cannot build, I'll make the pass layer. Remember the middle layer pass will be snowflake so I can build it on snowflake. I can use them for data layer. If I really need do size, I'll build it on force.com Salesforce. Yeah. Right. So I think that's where you'll. >>So basically the, the, if you're an entrepreneur, the, the north star in terms of the, the outcome is be a super cloud. It is, That's the application on another big CapEx ride, the CapEx of AWS or >>Cloud, and that reduce your product development, your go to market and you get use the snowflake marketplace to drive your engagement. >>Yeah. Yeah. How are, how is Amazon and the clouds dealing with these big whales, the snowflakes of the world? I mean, I know they got a great relationship, uh, but snowflake now has to run a company they're public. Yeah. So, I mean, I'll say, I think they had Redshift. Amazon has got Redshift, um, but snowflakes, a big customer and the they're probably paying AWS, I think bills too. So >>John video it's like whole Netflix is, and Amazon prime Netflix runs on Amazon, but Amazon has Amazon prime that co-optation will be there. So Amazon will have Redshift, but Amazon is also partnering with, uh, snowflake to have native snowflake data warehouses, a data layer. So I think depending on the applic use case, you have to use each of the above. I think snowflake is here for a long term. So if I'm building an application, I want to use snowflake then, right. Think from stats. >>Well, I think that it comes back down to entrepreneurial hustle. Do you have a better product? Right. Product value will ultimately determine it as long as the cloud doesn't, You know, foreclose your value. That's right. With some sort of internal hack. But I think, I think the general question that I have is that I, I think it's okay to have a super cloud like that because the rising tide is still happening. Some point, when does the rising tide stop >>And >>The people shopping up their knives, it gets more competitive or is it just an infinite growth cycle? >>I think it's growth. You call it cloud scale. You invented the word cloud scale. So I think, look, cloud will continually agree, increase. I think there's, as long as there are more movement from on, uh, on-prem to the classical data center, I think there's no reason at this point, the rumor, the old lift and shift that's happening in like my business. I see people lift and shifting from the it operations, it helpless, even the customer service service now and, uh, ticket data from BMCs CAS like Microfocus, all those workloads are shifted to the cloud, right? So ticketing system is happening. Cloud system of record is happening. So I think this train has still a long way to go >>Made. I wanna get your thoughts for the folks watching that are, uh, enterprise buyers or practitioners, not suppliers to the market, feel free to text me or DMing next. Question's really about the buying side, which is if I'm a customer, what's the current, um, appetite for startup products, cuz you know, the big enterprises now and you know, small, medium, large, and large enterprise, they're all buying new companies cuz a startup can go from zero to relevant very quickly. So that means now enterprises are engaging heavily with startups. What's it like what's is there a change in order of magnitude of the relationship between startup selling to, or growing startup selling to an enterprise? Um, have you seen changes there? I mean I'm seeing some stuff, but why don't we get your thoughts on that? What, no, it >>Is. If I remember going back to our 2007 or eight, when I used to talk to you back then and Amazon started very small, right? We an Amazon summit here. So I think enterprises on the average used to spend nothing with startups. It's almost like 0% or one person today. Most companies are already spending 20, 30% with startups. Like if I look at a CIO, a line of business it's gone. Yeah. Can it go more? I think it can double in the next four, five years. Yeah. Spending on the startups. >>Yeah. And check our, uh, AWS startups.com. That's a site that we built for the startup community for buyers and startups. And I want get your reaction because I, I reference the URL cause it's like, there's like a bunch of companies we've been promoting because the solutions that startups have actually are new stuff. Yes. It's bending, it's shifting left for security or using data differently or are um, building tools and platforms for data engineering. Right. Which is a new persona that's emerging. So you know, a lot of good resources there. Um, and goes back now to the data question. Now, getting back to your, what you're working on now is what's your thoughts around this new, um, data engineering persona. You mentioned a AIOps we've been seeing AOPs IOPS blue booming and that's creating a new developer paradigm that's right. Which we call and coin data as code data as code is like infrastructure as code, but it's for data, right? It's developing with data, right? Retraining machine learnings, going back to the data lake, getting data to make, to do analysis, to make the machine learning better post event or post action. So this, this to engineers like an SRE for data, it's a new, scalable role we're seeing. Do you see the same things? Do you agree? Um, do you disagree or can you share >>Yourself? I, no, I have a lot of thoughts that first is I see the AOP solutions in the future should be not looking back. I need to be like we are in San Francisco bay. That means earthquake prediction. Right? I want AOPs to predict when the outages are gonna happen. When there's a performance issue. I don't think most AOPs vendors have not gone through it. Like I spend a lot of time with data dog, Cisco app dynamic, right? Dynatrace, all this solution will go future towards predict to proactive solution with AOPs. But what you bring of a very good point on the data side, I think like we have a Amazon marketplace and for startup, there should be data exchange where you want to create for AOPs and AI service desk customers that give the data, share the data because we thought the data algorithms are useless. I can come the best algorithm, but I gotta train them, modify them, tweak them, make >>Them >>Better, make them better. Yeah. And I think there are a whole data exchange is the industry has not thought through something you and me talk many times. Yeah. Yeah. I think the whole, that data is very important. >>You've always been on, on the Vanguard of data because, uh, it's been really fun. Yeah. >>Going back to big data days back in 2009, you know, >>Look at, look how much data bricks has grown. >>It is double, the >>Key cloud air kinda went private, so good stuff. But what are you working on right now? Give a, give a, um, plug for what you're working on. You'll still invest strength. >>I do still invest, but look, I'm a hundred percent on ISRA right now. I'm the CEO there. Yeah. Okay. >>So >>Right. ISRA is my number one baby right now. So I'm looking at that growing customers and my customers. Some of them you like it's zoom auto desk, MacAfee, uh, grantor. So all the top customers, um, mainly for it help desk customer service ops. Those are three product lines and going after enterprise and commercial deals. >>And when should someone buy your product? What what's their need? What category is it? >>I think the look whenever somebody needs to buy the product is if you need AOP solution to predict, keep your lights on, predict ours one area. If you want to improve employee experience, you are using a slack teams and you want to automate all your workflows. That's another value. Prop. Third is customer service. You don't want to hire more people to do it. Some of the areas where you want to scale your company, grow your company, eliminate the cost customer service. >>Great stuff, man. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Congratulations on the success of your company and your investments. Thanks for coming on the key. Okay. I'm John fur here at the cube live in San Francisco for day one of two days of coverage of Aish summit 2022. And we're gonna be at a summit in San, uh, in New York in the summer. So look for that on this calendar, of course, go to Aish startups.com and mention that it's ay for all the hot startups and of course the cube.net and Silicon angle.com. Thanks for watching. We'll be back more coverage after this short break.