>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering .conf18, brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome back to Orlando everybody, home of Disney World, and this week, home of theCUBE. I'm Dave Vellante and he's Stu Miniman. Steven Hatch is here, he's the manager of Enterprise Logging Services at Cox Automotive. Steven, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So, you've been with Splunk for a while, we're here at conf18. Logging services, enterprise logging services. When you think of Splunk, their roots, Splunk go back to, sort of, log files, analyzing log files, it's in your title. (laughs) You must be pretty intimately tied to, as a practitioner, to this capability, but talk about your role and what you do at Cox. >> Primarily, the role is to be the evangelist, the enabler, and the center of excellence when it comes down to getting those best practices propergated within the enterprise. >> So people come to you for advice, council, you play, sort of, internal consultant. What qualified you to do that? You were a practitioner prior to this, so you got your hands dirty and you kind of now, elevated to-- >> My prior role was a Site Operations, or Site Reliability Engineer, and then Manager. And so, having that background, I've been in IT since '96, so I'm a little old in the game, but basically, having that operational knowledge, and knowing how to think big picture when things are happening or transpiring, or the reverse and go back and find that root cause analysis. >> '96, just a pup, my friend, okay? (both laugh) So, talking to Stu, we were talking off camera, about the number of brands that Cox Automotive has, Cox at Kelley Blue Book and at numerous others, like dozens, each of these is kind of it's own data silo. How do you guys go about using Splunk? Are you able to break down some of those silos? Maybe you could share that with us. >> Yeah, so we have been successful on a lot of the big three really, at Kelley Blue Book, Manheim, as well as Auto Trader, to really break in. A lot of that was because of our, already previous, relationships with team members and leaders. On the other side of the coin is the newly acquired companies that are not in Atlanta, Georgia. That are in places like Groton, Connecticut, South Jordan, Utah, Upstate New York, as well as the Toronto area in Canada. And so, WebEx joined me, email just won't cut it. You actually have to sit down with these people and really showcase your business case, your model, and what you're trying to bring to the table. But of course, the approach is always important. >> And are you using Splunk to do that? As a collaboration tool as well? >> Yes sir, yep. >> Explain that a little bit if you would. >> So, a lot of times, as you mentioned, the silos, as a bigger brand now, it's no longer an excuse for you to only be responsible for your data and not showcase it, or share that data. Because we're thinking about the entire life-cycle of Cox Automotive, and this entity of Cox Automotive, that's important to us now. So for you to hold tight, or to hoard your data, or your metrics and not share them, that's not good business anymore. >> Yeah, so Steven, we talked to a lot of companies that do M&A, and it's usually like, well, this is the products we use, these are the structures that we have. One of the things we hear from Splunk is that you can get to your data, your way. How does the Splunk modeling, and how you look at the data, fit into that M&A? Is that an enabler for you to be able to get that in. >> Yeah, and so, when you can showcase the ability of how the data comes in and, quickly. Key word, right? To showcase how that data can be very valuable to them, especially to their stakeholders, that's when light bolts will go off. And, again, it's the stakeholders, and then champions, that we need to bring to the table to make sure that we can get full adoption. >> Yeah, we've also-- Dave's been to the show a few times, it's my first time, and what I've really heard a bunch of is the people that know how to use Splunk, they're super valuable inside of the company. They get training, people inside the company, they look to get hired, tell us a little about what you've seen, what it means to your role inside the company, and as you network with your peers here. >> It's a lot of exposure. A lot of people are very anxious to get some type of insights into their world, their infrastructure, their applications, their business tools. A lot of times, there are people out there that are very savvy from a business perspective, that have a bunch of KPIs in their head, but no one has actually extracted that information from them, and so, our job is to align with their KPIs. You know, over the last couple of years, that's what we've-- the journey that we've been on, is to now revisit the data that we've just ingested. That's the basic foundation. We want to elevate now and really get more mature, and to align with those business KPIs. >> Meaning they got this tribal knowledge in their head, and you want to codify that so that it can be shared. >> Correct. >> How do you go about doing that? Is it sitting in a whiteboard and understanding that? >> It can be a whiteboard, it can be over a coffee. If I need to get on a plane and go see them in person, and to really just listen and ask the questions when it's time but, again, listen and really understand what's important to them, what is important to their business, to their function, to their silos? Cox Automotive has five, of what we call, pillars, where there's international, finance, marketing, retail, or media, and each one of those owners, over time, wants the specific value. >> So if you go and have a chalkboard session, whiteboard session, with one of these folks, how do you operationalize it? You got to figure out where the data exists, so that you can align with what's in their head? Is that right? And then, how do you do that? How do you scale it? >> Well, so, again, you have to start from the top. If you start from the bottom, you'll be in the weeds until the end of time. So that the more efficient manner is to start from the top and realize those KPIs from those leaders, those stakeholders, and then from there, a tool like ITSI, which is basically built around services, entities, and aligning to their service decomposition model, and that right there allows you to stay consistent and efficient on getting that information. >> So you start top down, but ultimately, people are going to want granularity. So you start-- is it top down, bottom up, type of approach? Where you actually drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, and then get to the point where you can answer all those granule questions? And then, by doing that, if I understand it correctly, it sums to the top line, is that fair? >> Yeah, yeah, there's a point in time where you say, you know what? I could really now enhance or enrichen the data by a dataset that I know where it is. So the keypal will get you to a certain point, and then, to find that happy medium, or that common denominator from the data that you already have on premise, or from your apps, wherever they reside, that's where you can meet the gap. >> Otherwise you're never get it done. You'll end up boiling the ocean. >> That's correct, yes sir. >> All right, so, when we talked to you two years ago, you were using Splunk Cloud, you know? And when we talked to practitioners it's-- the things that they're managing, a lot of times now, most of it's not what they own, and so, how do I get the right information? How do I manage that environment? Talk to us a little bit about what you've seen in the maturation of Splunk and Splunk Cloud, if there's anything in 7.2, or Splunk Next, that's exciting you, to help you do your job even better. >> Oh man, so of course, the keynote today, the DSP, the processing layer that's in front of the Cloud, or in front of the indexes now. Where in real time, I can now route data, specifically from a security standpoint. If there's some type of event, without having to go through all the restarts and configuration management and everything else, I can simply put something in there, right there, and move the data, or mask the data. The ability with the infrastructure app, that's exciting to me, as well as all the feature updates for ITSI, enterprise security, as well as the Cloud itself. >> Can we do a little Splunk 101 for my benefit? So I heard today, from one of the product folks, that it used to be when you added another indexer, you had to add storage and compute simultaneously, whether or not you needed the storage, you had to add it, or vise versa. So an indexer is what, is it, essentially, a Splunk node? >> No, it can be a, basically, a Linux host, that actually has the agent running as an indexer with the attached disk. >> Right, okay, and it used to be you had to buy that in chunks, kind of like HCI, right? And you couldn't scale storage independent of compute? >> That's correct. >> What that meant is you were paying for stuff that you might not need. >> Right. >> So, with 7.2, I guess it is, you can split those and you get more granule, or what does that mean for you? >> Well, being a, now four year customer of Splunk Cloud, and anytime we went to the next version of, or license, the next step up, currently we're on about six terabytes. When we go up to eight, that the entailed more indexes being added to the cluster, which meant more time for the replication of search factors to be met, which can take however long, and then, or if there's any kind of issue with the indexer, where one had to be pulled out and another one introduced. How long does that take? Now, with the decoupling of the compute from the storage, it's minutes, and so it's a fraction of the time. >> And if I understand, I understood it real well when it's an appliance, but it's the same architecture if it's done in the Cloud, is that correct? >> It's, essentially, actually, it's a new architecture in my mind, where now it's able to scale more, and then there's-- I'm not sure how much they talked about it, but there's a potential of the elasticity of it. And so, now, I don't have to be so fixed, I can, on certain times, expand the cluster, you know, for search performance, or bring it back down when it's not needed. >> Some of the promise of Cloud. >> Yes, sir, Splunk Cloud. >> So it's like the Billy Dean, the five tool star. You've got the cost, you've got availability, you got speed, you got flexibility, and you've got business value, ultimately, which is what's driving here. So, I take it, I'm inferring here, you'd expect to use this capability in the near future? >> Very much so. >> Great. What else is on your horizon? What are the cool stuff you're working on? And things you want to share with us? >> Well, in addition to our leveraging Splunk Cloud for four years, next year we plan to move away from our current sim tool, into enterprise security. So it's very exciting to hear that they're continually updating that product, and so our security team has been knocking on my door for the last six months to really get that started. So, once we get there, we'll start the migration efforts and get Splunk Cloud now, enabled with the enterprise security, to really empower our security team, and stay ahead of our threats. >> So, I've been around a long time, and, ever since I can remember being in this business, customers have wanted to consolidate the number of vendors with whom they work. But the allure of best of breed always sucks them in to, oh, lets try this, or you get shadow IT. It sounds like, with Splunk, you're approaching this as a platform that you can use for a variety of different use cases. >> That is correct. >> Now, whether or not you reduce the number of vendors is, maybe a separate conversation, but I guess the question I have is, how are you using Splunk in new ways? It sounds like its permutating a line of business, SecOps, etc, is that an accurate picture? If you could describe it. >> Yeah, so Splunk itself, the core is the platform for so many different other functions within the business. You have security, you have the development group, DevOps, where, from a CICD perspective, now they can measure the metrics or the latency in between, when they create a car, say in rally, all the way to the very end of the line, what are all those metrics that are there, that they can leverage to increase their productivity? Obviously, infrastructure. As we consolidate all of our data centers down, wouldn't it be nice to know if these specific low bouncers or switchers are still having traffic to verse them? And to actually get a depiction of the consolidation effort. From a virtualization standpoint, isn't it powerful to know how many devices E6 hosts are actually fully being utilized, and how many are actually vacant? And how much money can be saved if we were actually to turn down those specifics blades or hosts? Or VMs that aren't being leveraged, but they're sitting there, taking up valuable resources. >> I remember when Splunk, right around the time they went public, I remember two instances, maybe three. There was a MPP database company, there was a large three letter firm, and there was an open-source specialist, and I heard the same thing from each of them, was we have the Splunk killer, this was like, five, six years ago. It seems like this Splunk killer was Splunk. And it really never happened. Why is it? Why is Splunk so effective? You obviously see, you know, you're independent, you want to use the best thing for Cox Automotive. What is it about Splunk that sets them apart, puts them in the lead? >> The scale capabilities, having this type of environment with the conferences and the sales group and the support groups, very intentional about listening. Having workshops where they come on premise to help us out on our use cases, to really educate their users, because the more their users are elevated from a knowledge standpoint, the more they will then exercise the application. If they all stay basic, why would I need another component of Splunk? Why would I need enterprise security? Why would I need to expand my subscription into the Cloud? The more I can exercise it, the more I'll need. >> So this is kind of a give, get. They come in knowing that if they expose you to other best practices, you'll going to be more effective in the use of Splunk and you might apply it in to other parts of your business. >> My appetite will grow and my users appetite will grow. >> And these are freebies that they're doing? Services freebies, or are they paid for services? >> Oh yeah, they have no problem coming in, supplying the necessary ammunition, or food, to entice, to have folks come in, but it's powerful to have all the engineers in there to really show us how things work. 'Cause, again, it's a win, win. >> And you're a football fan, I understand? >> Oh, yes, sir. >> Chiefs are your team, right? >> That's correct. >> Were you a football player? >> For a little while, yes. Now I coach, so that's my-- >> And you coach, what? >> Little girls. >> Kiddie football, huh, awesome. Is that Pop Warner these days, still? >> I guess you call it that. >> Flag football or tackle? >> Tackle football >> Really? >> Yep. >> Eight years old? >> Yes, my son is eight and he's playing full back right now, I'm very excited, happy father. >> Is he a big boy, like his dad? >> He's going to be bigger, I think, than his father, yes, sir. (both laugh) >> That's awesome. Well, listen, thanks very much, Steven, for coming on theCUBE, it's really a pleasure meeting you. >> That's appreciated, thank you very much. All right, keep it right there everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live from Splunk .conf18, you're watching theCUBE.

>> Narrator: Live from Washington, D.C., it's the Cube covering .conf 2017 brought to you by Splunk. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to our nation's capitol. Here in Washington, D.C., the Cube which is Silicon Angle TV's flagship broadcast, broadcasting live today and tomorrow from D.C. here at .conf 2017, Splunk's annual get-together. Along with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls. Now, we're joined by Chidi Alams who is the Head of IT and Security for Heartland Jiffy Lube. We all know Jiffy Lube for sure. Chidi, thanks for being with us. Good to see you. >> Of course, thanks for having me. >> Before I jump in, I was looking at your, kind of the portfolio of responsibilities earlier. Information security, application development, database development, reporting services, enterprise PM, blah, on and on and on. When do you sleep, Chidi? >> I don't. (laughing) That's the easy answer. The reality is I also have two young children at home, so between work and the family life, I'm up all the time. >> John: I imagine so. >> But I would have it no other way. >> Dave: How old are your kids? >> Three and two. >> Oh, you won't sleep for a decade. >> Right. >> I know. >> Wait til they start driving. >> That's what they tell me. >> Then it gets even better or worse, depends on how you look at it. >> That's how you learn how to sleep on airplanes. (laughing) >> Well, let's look at the big picture of security at Jiffy Lube. Your primary concerns these days, I assume, are very much laser-focused on security and what you're seeing. What are the kinds of things that keep you up at night? Other than kids these days? >> So, we're a very large retailer and brand recognition is something that we're very proud of, however, with that comes a considerable amount of risk. So the bad guys are also aware of Jiffy Lube. They understand that as a retailer, we have credit cards, we have very sensitive data. When I started with Jiffy Lube about two and a half years ago, I started a program to focus not only on keeping the bad guys out, right, that's essentially table stakes in any security program, but also implementing a discipline approach around insider threat. Frankly, that's where Splunk has proved to be a significant value for our organization because now we have visibility with respect to both of those risks. Additionally, we've spent a lot of time just taking more of a risk-based approach to security. Quite often what happens, technologists tend to focus on implementing technology and kind of filling gaps that way. The first thing that we did was assess organizational risk based on our most critical assets. Once we were able to determine asset X, in most cases a data asset, was really critical to the organization, credit card data, we were able to build a unified solution and program to ensure that we protect not only our brand, but our customers' data all the time. >> So, first of all I'll say, I love Jiffy Lube. I'm a customer. I go there all the time. It's so convenient, great service. Generally, very customer service oriented, but I see your challenge with all this distributed infrastructure and retail shops around. I would imagine there's somewhat of a transient, some turnover in employee base. >> Chidi: Yeah. >> The bad guys can target folks and say, "Hey, here's a few bucks. "Let me in." So how do you use data and analytics? I'm sure you have all kinds of screening and all kinds of corporate policies around that that's sort of one layer, but it's multi-dimensional. So how do you use technology and data to thwart that risk internally? >> Sure. So I think the key there is having a holistic program. That's a term that's thrown around a lot, so for me, that means a clear focus on people-processed technology. As I mentioned earlier, the tendency is to start with your comfort zone, so with us as technologists, it's technology, but the people aspect, I have found in my career, is always the largest variable that you have to account for. So disgruntled employees. In retail, regardless of how robust and how strong a culture you create, you're always going to have higher turnover than any industry, particularly in the field. Having very tight alignment with HR, Operations, other stakeholders to ensure that, look, when someone leaves, we track that effectively. That's all data-driven, by the way, so that we're able to track the lifecycle of an employee not only on the positive side when they enter the organization, but when they exit. If the exit is immediate, we have triggers and data-driven events that alert us to that so we can respond immediately. Then, I mentioned insider threat. It's not just employees out in the field. Globally, insider threat is probably the biggest blind spots for organizations. Again, the focus is on the outside, so when we look at things like data exfiltration which is a risk in any large organization where there's a lot of change and transformation, you have to have a good baseline of activity that's going on and understand what activity is truly normal versus activity that could be anomalous and an indicator of a bad actor within the enterprise. We have all that visibility and more now with Splunk. >> What is the role that Splunk plays? How has that journey evolved? I don't know if you've been there long enough, but pre-Splunk, post-Splunk, maybe you could describe that. >> Yeah, so pre-Splunk we were very, very reactive. Let me answer that by providing a little more context about how we're leveraging Splunk. So Splunk Enterprise Security is our centralized hub. Data across the enterprise comes to Splunk Enterprise Security. We have a team of SOC analysts that work around the clock to monitor events that, again, could be indicators of something bad happening. So with that infrastructure in place, we've gone from a very reactive situation where we had analysts and engineers going to disparate systems and having to manually triangulate and figure out, hey, is this an event? Is this something worthy of escalation? How do we handle this? Now, we have a platform not only in Splunk, but with some other solutions that gives us data, one, that's actionable. It's not hard to aggregate data, but to make that data meaningful and expose only what's legitimate from a triage and troubleshooting perspective. So those are some of the things we've done that Splunk has played a role in that. >> Okay. Talk about the regime for cybersecurity within your organization. It used to be, oh, it's an IT problem. In your organization, is it still an IT problem? Is the balance of the organization taking more responsibility? Is there a top-down initiative? I wonder if you could talk about how you guys approach that? >> That's a great question because it speaks to governance. One of the things that I did almost immediately when I started with Jiffy Lube was worked very closely with the senior leadership team to define what proper governance looks like because with governance, you've got accountability. So what happens all too often is security is just this thing that's kind of under-the-table. It's understood we've got some technology and some processes and policies in place, however, the question of accountability doesn't arise until there is a problem, especially in the case of a breach and most certainly when that breach leads to front-page exposure which was something I was very concerned about, again, Jiffy Lube being a very large retailer. Worked very closely with the senior leadership team to first of all, identify the priorities. We can't boil the ocean, there are a lot of gaps. There were a lot of gaps, but working as a team, we said, "Look, these are the priorities." Obviously, customer data, that's everything. That's our brand. We want to protect our customers, right. It's not just about keeping their vehicles running as long as possible. We want to be good stewards of their data. So with that, we implemented a very robust data-management strategy. We had regular meetings with business stakeholders and education also played a critical role. So taking technology and security out of the dark room of IT and bringing it to the senior leadership team and then, of course, being a member of that senior leadership team and speaking to these things in a way that my colleagues in Operations or Finance or Supply Chain could readily connect with. Then, translating that to risk that they can understand. >> So it's a shared responsibility? >> Absolutely. >> A big part of security. You talked before about keeping the bad guys out. That's table stakes. Big part of security, at least this day and age, seems to be response, how effectively the organization responds and, as you well know, it's got to be a team sport. It's kind of a bro mod, but the response mechanism, is it rehearsed? It is trained? Can you describe that? >> Both. I agree, response is critical, so you have to plan for everything. You have to be ready. Some of the things that we've done: one, we created a crisis management team, an incident response team. We have a very deliberate focus and a disciplined approach to disaster recovery and business continuity which is often left out of security conversations. Which is fascinating because the classic security triad is confidentiality, integrity, and availability. So the three have to be viewed in light of each other. With that, we not only created the appropriate incident response teams and processes within IT, but then created very clear links between other parts of the business. So if we have a security event or an availability event, how do we communicate that internally? Who is in charge? Who manages the incident? Who decides that we communicate with legal, HR? What is that ecosystem look like? All of that is actually clearly defined in our security policy and we rehearse it at least twice a year. >> You know, we just had Robert Herjavec on from the Herjavec Group just a few minutes ago. He brought up a point I thought pretty interesting. He says, "Security, obviously, is a huge concern." Obviously, it's his focus, but he said, "A problem is that the bad guys, the bad actors, "are extremely inventive and innovative "and keep coming up with new entry points, "new intrusion points." That's the big headache is they invent these really newfangled ways to thwart our systems that were unpredicted. So how does that sit with you? You say you've got all of these policies in place, you've got every protocol aligned, and all-of-a-sudden the door opens a different way that you didn't expect. >> Yeah, one of my favorite topics that really speaks to the future and where I believe the industry is going. So traditionally, security has been very signature-based. In other words, we alert against known patterns of behavior that are understood to be malicious or bad. A growing trend is machine learning, artificial intelligence. In fact, at Jiffy Lube, we are experimenting with a concept that I refer to now as the security immune system. So leveraging machine data to proactively asses potential threats versus waiting for those threats to materialize and then kind of building that into our response going forward. I think a lot of that is still in the early phases, but I imagine that in the very near future that'll be a mandatory part of every security plan. We've got to go beyond two-dimensional signature-based to true AI, machine learning. Taking action, not just providing visibility via response and alerts, but taking action based on that data proactively in a way that might not include a human actor, at least initially. >> What's the organizational structure at your shop? Are you the de-facto CISO? >> Chidi: I am. >> And the CIO? >> Chidi: I am. I wear both hats. >> Yeah, so that's interesting. You know where I'm going with this. There's always the discussion about should you separate those roles. I can make a case for either way, that if you want the best security in IT, have the security experts managing that. The same time, people say, "Well, it's like the fox "watching the hen house and there's lack of transparency." I think I know where you fall on this, but how do you address the guys that say that function should be split? What's the advantage of keeping them together in your view? >> Yeah, so I think you have to marry best practice with the realities of a particular organization. That's the mistake that I think many make when they set about actually defining the appropriate org structure. There's no such thing as a copy and paste org structure. I actually believe, and I have no problem going on record with this, that the best practice does represent in reality a division between IT and security, particularly in larger organizations. Now, for us, that is more of a journey. What you do initially and your end-state are two different things, but the way you get there is incrementally. You don't go big bang out of the gate. Right now, they both roll up to me. Foreseeably, they will roll up to me, but that works best for the Jiffy Lube organization because of some interesting dynamics. The board of directors by the way, given the visibility of security, does have a say on that. Now that we're in transformation mode, they do want one person kind of overseeing the entire transformation of IT and security. Now, in the future, if we decide to split that up and I think we have to be at the right place as an organization to ensure that that transition is successful. >> I'm glad you brought up the board, Chidi, because to me, it's all about transparency. If the CIO can go to the board and say, "Hey, here's the deal. "We're going to get hacked, we have been hacked, "and here's what we're doing about it. "Here's our response routine," and in a transparent way has an open conversation with the board, that's different than historically. A lot of times CIOs would say, "Alright, we've got this covered," because failure meant fired. That's a mistake that a lot of boards made. Now, eventually, over time the board may decide, look, the job's too big to have one person which is kind of what you're ... But how do you feel about that? What's your sentiment on that transparency piece? How often do you meet with the board and what are the discussions like? >> Yeah, great topic. So, a few things. One, and you've hinted to this, it's very important for the CIO or the CISO to have board-level visibility, board-level access. I have that at Jiffy Lube. I've had to present to the board regarding the IT strategy. I think it's also important to be an effective communicator of risk. So when you're talking to the board, what I've done is I've highlighted two things and I believe this very strongly. As a security leader, you have to practice due care and due diligence. So due care represents doing your job within the scope of whatever your role is. Due diligence involves maintaining that over a period of time, including product evaluations. If you have due care and due diligence and you're able to demonstrate that, even if your environment is compromised, you have to have the enterprise including the board realize that as long as those two things are in place, then a security officer is doing his job. Now, what's fascinating is many breaches can be mapped back to a lack of due care and due diligence. That's why the security officer gets fired to be very blunt, but as long as you have those things and you articulate very clearly what that represents to the board and the senior leadership team, then I think you just focus on doing your job and continuing to communicate. >> John wanted to know if you had any Jiffy Lube coupons before we go. >> Yeah, 'cause in my car on the way home I thought I'd just jump in there. >> I'm all out, but I'll (laughs). >> You got one right down the street from the house. They probably know me all too well because I take the kids' cars there too. >> That's right. We'll hook you up, don't worry about it. >> We appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. A newly-converted Dallas Cowboys fan, by the way. >> That's right. Very proud. >> Perhaps here in Washington, we can work on that. >> We'll see about that. >> Alright, we'll see. Chidi, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. Chidi Alams from Heartland Jiffy Lube. Back with more here on the Cube in Washington, D.C. at .conf 2017 right after this. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE! Covering ServiceNow Knowledge17. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> We're back in Orlando, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. We're here at Knowledge17. I'm Dave Vellante, with my cohost Jeff Frick. Donna Woodruff is here, she's the service enablement leader at Cox Automotive. Donna, thanks for coming to theCUBE. >> Hi, thank you for having me. >> Good to see you, you're welcome. Tell us a little bit about Cox Automotive, and specifically your role. Are you an IT practitioner by trade, or business process person? Share with us. >> A little bit of everything, actually. First of all, Cox Automotive is a large, privately-held organization that's part of the Cox Enterprises family. We are changing the way the world buys, sells, and owns vehicles. We are made up of five key solution group areas. Everything from inventory solutions, which includes our auto auctions, and everything to get cars from dealerships to our auctions and back out again for their inventory. We have financial services, which provides floor planning to our dealerships so they can buy cars from our auctions. We have media services, which are all about how do you connect the cars that you're selling to retail customers, so autotrader.com, Kelley Blue Book are some notable brands as part of our organization. We develop software around analytics, and an ERP system for dealerships, to help them move their inventory and do their floor planning, so they can maximize sales in their dealerships. And then of course we have international. We are a global company. We have over 34,000 team members that we support. We're a very heterogeneous organization, and that can drive complexity into the organization. My role is, I am the service enablement leader. I am based out of technology, but I look at my role as much broader than that. It's about solving problems for our business and being able to deliver services internally and externally, and help the organization run more efficient and effectively. >> So you've seen, you know, the narrative in IT, and ServiceNow's described that very well over the years, IT getting beat up, and you only call IT when there's a problem, and obviously the platform and the adoption of that have changed a lot of organizations, presumably you experience something similar. So, take us back to the beginning days, the early days of what it was like, the before and after ServiceNow. What led you to that decision? What were some of the drivers, how'd you get there? >> Absolutely. Well, Kelley Blue Book was an acquisition for Autotrader group of companies about four or five years ago, and they had implemented ServiceNow as a help desk ticketing system. When we acquired them, we saw some great wins with the platform that we thought, hey, this really should be our help desk ticketing system. And so it brought under cross that small group of companies, but it was always viewed as a help desk ticketing system. Over time, just like many other platforms, it starts to get highly customized. Fast-forward to a couple of years ago, we had a need. I was supporting HR and communications from a technology liaison perspective. The problem that they were trying to solve was that they have two employee service centers, one on the East Coast, one on the West Coast, that were staffed by analysts, and they primarily helped our auto auction personnel deal with their benefits and questions around just HR. All the way down to time sheet corrections and things like that. They came to me with this problem, and they said, "You know, we've been using Remedy to some extent." We were in a transitional time in the organization where we were collapsing our help desk tools onto ServiceNow, and they said, "We need some help, here." "We just want to do a few requests." Well, we identified early on as that liaison that I really think that this ticketing platform can do what you need it do. Myself along with a business analyst and an intern sat down with the business, we understood the requirements, and that was the launch of our HR portal. While we were in there-- >> Just you, an analyst, and an intern. >> That's correct. That's correct. And we weren't developers. It was all about configuration. But we understood the tool, we understand that this is really no different than any other business process, and we set out to deliver the first service catalog around HR services. Since then, we haven't looked back. We learned a lot about the platform. We diagrammed out what was wrong with how the service desk had been highly customized, we sat down with our VP and we just showed him the diagram and said, "We think that this platform can do a lot more." He listened to us, and he turned to us, and he said, "Well, do you guys want the platform?" And I turned to my team, and I said, "Do you guys want it?" We took it on, and since then, in the last 18 months, we have expanded the platform very broadly. We've implemented performance analytics to improve our help desk services. Beyond the HR portal, we are now implementing governance risk compliance, a vulnerability management. We're now doing PPM as well. We are re-looking at our CMDB because we want to do more with automation. We've done some orchestration with storage agility and how we can get those engineers more productive by doing zero-touch ticket requests from our developers to expand file shares and to sunset file shares, or to request new file shares with other applications. >> So what'd you do with all the custom mods, when you talked about the Kelley Blue Book coming over. Did you sort of scrub the hose and start over, or-- >> Well, you know what, we took it back to out of the box, and it wasn't difficult to do. We just rationalized the things that were duplicated across requests and incident, we pulled it back to out of the box, we took an agile approach. My team now is very agile. We do weekly releases on the platform. By bringing it back to out of the box, it allows us to upgrade to the latest major feature releases within a two-week period. Because of that, we're able to adopt and consume the new product enhancements that ServiceNow has to offer very, very quickly. >> So, obviously you had success, or you wouldn't have been able to expand the footprint so radically. How are you measuring success, how did you go from a little bitty thing to a very large thing? >> I think it's about visibility. Visibility and strong leadership support, and showing how we're getting better incrementally over time. I think one of the strategic things that we've done, probably in the last six months, is implement performance analytics, which that started to show the behaviors of how people were working within the platform, how they were addressing incidents, how they were responding to our mean time to response, to our mean time to closure of a ticket, the aging of these tickets. When we first implemented performance analytics, we found a lot of anomalies in the platform. We found orphaned assignment groups, which to the behavior of the organization, they weren't necessarily working the system the way they should be. >> Jeff: Orphaned assignment groups. >> Orphaned assignment groups. Tickets were going in and they were backing up, and nobody was working them. So, allowed us to change the behavior of the organization, to drive consistency in how they were using this, which then made the metrics more meaningful. Now people are running their areas of operation from the platform. >> So the next thing I got to ask you, we talked about it in the open, is behavior. Tech's hard, but it's not that hard compared to people and process. How did you get people at that moment of truth, when I need something, to not send an email like I'm used to, and to actually execute my work through this tool? >> Well, one thing we did that was very unique, and we've continued to do that is as we roll out major feature functionality, we actually create commercials about ServiceNow, about the platform. Internally, we call it Service Station. Everything is associated with a vehicle. We've promoted our brand around the platform as well, and our brand is about doing things more simply, getting things routed to the right people, that's why it's better than email, and demonstrating the power of what it will do to you, and getting those answers more quickly instead of going to your favorite IT person or your favorite HR person. How this platform is helping you get to your answers more quickly, as well as all the self-service capabilities and the knowledge articles around, hey, fix it yourself. You don't have to talk to somebody on the phone. But we still give that personalized touch if they really need help and they want to talk to an individual. >> So really, a lot more carrots than sticks. >> Lot more carrots than sticks, absolutely. It's if you can solve your problem faster, why not? 'Cause at the end of the day, that's ultimately what you want to do. Solve your problem, and get on to the rest of your day. >> How long does it take for a typical employee to go, "Ah, this is fantastic!", and to really shift their behavior and buy in and start selling it, as your advocate? >> I think we're doing a better job now, introducing it to our new hires as soon as they get engaged in the organization, about this is your platform to go to when and if you need help. And here's how easy it is to find the things that you need. It's something that just happens over time, and I think if you address some of those small wins, you create advocates in the organization, and when they have a good experience, they tell others. So some of it's word-of-mouth, some of it is internal promotion. A big part of it is leveraging the platform to get the work done and having a great user experience along the way. >> Donna, you mentioned Service Catalog and CMDB, these are consistently two components that allow customers like you to get more leverage out of the ServiceNow platform. So, specifically as it relates to CMDB, what are you doing there? Do you have a single CMDB across the organization? Is that something you're considering? >> That's probably one of our next big transformational areas. We do have a CMDB within the platform that's been used primarily around the linkages for incident, problem, and change management. But we know that we need to do more with it, and like I said before, we've grown through acquisition, so there's a number of other CMDBs. And we are in the process of bringing that all together onto the ServiceNow platform. Because we're seeing the power of everything else that that connects to. And that's also going to be a key on how we promote more orchestration, more automation, more about the health of our services. >> So, ServiceNow's obviously promoting you guys throughout this event, showcasing some of the things that you've been doing. What've you been talking to other customers about? What are you most proud of? >> Honestly, I'm really proud of my team (laughs), because we are responding to the needs of the organization, and the fact that you can add value through what you do on a day-to-day basis is great. I think one of the most unique things that, in terms of the application, is we actually built an application for our safety auctions. So, as you can imagine, we have a hundred auctions. There's a lot of people working in the auctions. We have everything that a dealership would have, and we have lanes of vehicles running through to be auctioned off with our dealerships. So we have service areas, we have vehicles and people moving about the auction. So safety is a very critical thing for our organization. About a year ago, the safety director came and said, "You know, we have this problem. "We are doing these auctions' safety checklist "around compliance, how can we make "our auctions a safer place?" "You know, we don't have a lot of money, "but we think there's a better way to do it." And they explained the process where they had six area safety managers that were distributed across these hundred auctions, and trying to get the safety message out there through making sure people were wearing their goggles, or that they had all the appropriate OSHA standards in place. So after having a lot of conversations around this, again, we found ServiceNow would be a great solution. We did work with a partner to help us build it, but we took a very manual process and we automated it on the platform. Now we've moved the safety business process to the auctions themselves, where they own it. The general manager's involved, the shop leads are involved in it. And what it's done, it's been a catalyst to reducing our workers' comp claims. We've seen a two basis point improvement over the number of workers' comp claims, which is cost-avoidance, you know. When your average worker comp claim can be around $10,000, that's a significant saving. With a very, very small investment, we saw a 3,000% ROI on this initiative alone. We're bringing visibility to the process, using the platform and the reporting capabilities. It's gotten the general managers and the shop leads engaged and having the conversation about safety. >> This is great, 'cause you got the platform piece of it, and went from basic application delivery to seeing that it is just a workflow tool. >> Donna: Exactly. >> And the benefit of the automation, and now applying it to, I don't think they announced a auto auction safety module this morning. >> No. (laughing) >> Not yet, but we are doing a session... (Donna laughs) >> It's pretty impactful that you were able to see that, execute it with a really small investment, like you said, your initial one with you, an analyst and an intern, and now, really grow and expand the footprint within the organization. >> Yeah, it's really just about business processes in general. You've got everything you need to collect some attributes, or some information, you need to route it or get approvals around it, and then you can measure it. And you can see what's going on with that business process, and then you focus on, how do we improve the business process? The tool helps enable that and facilitate that. >> And how has the conversation around IT value changed, since you started this journey, right? >> Yeah. >> It used to be very cost-focused, I'm sure. Has it evolved to more of a, you mentioned ROI? >> It is, look at it, it's still cost-focused. It's still about savings, but it's also about how do we get things done in an organization more efficiently, with less people pushing paper, and actually focused on solving problems. And being able to measure how we get better in the activities that we're supporting. And then the dollars will follow. >> Dave: Is there a recognition in the business units, that things are changing? >> You know, there really is. One of the areas that we're starting to see real recognition is we're now dipping our toe into customer service management. We brought two platforms together with one of our business units that we acquired in the last year. They were doing some things on Zendesk, they were doing some things on another tool, and they were the same team. So, we've taken that experience, we've brought those agents onto the platform. We didn't change the experience for the customer just yet, because we wanted our agents to be very successful and help them work differently than through email. We pull those channels onto the platform, and now they have a dashboard of these issues in supporting our lenders, who are our customers. Next is really around the portal, in changing the experience for those end customers. Moving it out of the reply to all with email and making it more measurable. We've gotten halfway there, and we see a big growth area there for us, and making a better experience around our customers' support. >> And are you sunsetting some of these other systems as you bring stuff in? >> We absolutely are. I mean, our goal is to eliminate all other ticketing-type systems. In fact, all of the people that are on those ticketing systems, like, "When can we get on the platform?" "We want to be there now." "Help us get there." But bringing things together is going to help us across all of our functional areas, in supporting our customers and our team members much more effectively. It really is becoming our system of action, where you go to get things done. >> Donna, what, from your perspective, is on ServiceNow's to-do list? >> ServiceNow's to-do list. You know, and I've been pretty vocal with ServiceNow, it's like, make it easier for us to use and consume the other capabilities of the platform much more quickly. Allow us to use the great capabilities with some of our external collaborators a little bit more effectively. And I think that's where it is. I think ServiceNow does a fantastic job of bringing more capabilities and maturing all of their service areas. I like the fact that they have two major feature releases a year, and we consume them as quickly as they can send them out, probably faster than some other customers do. And continue to listen to your customers. Just, listen to what our problems are, and our needs are, and continue to answer them. They're doing a good job of that. >> Well, Donna, I have to say thanks for all the great products you guys build. The Kelley Blue Book, we've used it for years-- >> Oh, wonderful! >> And Autotrader, it's a great way to shop for vehicles. So thanks for that! >> You're welcome! >> Dave: Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for sharing your story. >> Keep it right there, everybody. Jeff and I will be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Knowledge17. We'll be right back. (energetic music)

>>Good afternoon and welcome back to the Classiest Show in Technology. This is the Cube we are at AWS Reinvent 2022 in Fabulous Sin City. That's why I've got my sequence on. We love a little Vegas, don't we? I'm joined by John Farer, another, another Vegas >>Fan. I don't have my sequence, I left it in my room. We're >>Gonna have to figure out how to get us 20 as soon as possible. What's been your biggest shock for you at the show so far? >>Well, I think the data story and security is so awesome. I love how that's front and center. If you look at the minutes of the keynote of Adamski, the CEO on day one, it's all bulked into data and security. All worked hand in hand. That's on top of already the innovation of their infrastructure. So I think you're gonna see a lot of interplay going on in this next segment. It's gonna tell a lot of that innovation story that's coming next. It's pretty awesome. >>It is pretty awesome, and I'm super excited. It's not only what we do here on the Cube, it's also in my show notes. We are gonna be geeking out for the next segment. Please welcome Paul and Puja. Wonderful to have you both here. Paul from Amazon, s3, glacier, and Pujan, CEO of kuo. I wanna turn to you Pujan, to start us off, just in case the audience isn't familiar, give us the Kuo pitch. >>Yeah, so basically Kuo is a, a backup as a service offering, right? Built in AWS four aws, right? And effectively going after, you know, any service that a customer uses on top of aws, right? And so a lot of the data sitting on s3, right? So that's been like our, our big use case going and basically building backup and air gap protection for, for s3. But we basically go to every other service, e c two, ebs, dynamo, you know, you name it, right? So basically do the whole thing >>And the relationship with aws. Can you guys share, I mean, you got you here together. You guys are a great partnership. Born in the cloud, operation in the cloud. Absolutely. I think talk about the partnership with aws. >>Absolutely. I think the last five years of building on AWS has been phenomenal, right? And I love the platform. It's, it's a very pure platform for us. You know, the APIs and, and the access you get and access you get to the service teams like Paul sitting here and the other teams you have gotten access to, I think has been phenomenal. But we also have, I would say, pushed the envelope in terms of how innovative we have been and how aggressive we have been in utilizing all the innovation that AWS has built in over the last few years. But it would not have happened without the fantastic partnership with the service teams. >>Paul, talk about the, AM the S3 part of this. What's the story there? >>Well, it's been great working with the CUO team over the course of the last few years. We were just upstairs diving deep into the, to the features that they're taking advantage of. They really push us hard on behalf of customers, and it's been a, it's just been a great relationship over the last years. >>That's awesome. And the ecosystem at such a, we're gonna hear tomorrow, the keynote on the, from Aruba who's gonna tend over the ecosystem. You guys are working together. There's a lot of strategic partnerships, so much collaboration between you guys that makes it very, this is the next gen cloud of cloud environment we're seeing. And you heard the, the economies around the corner. It's still gonna be challenging, but still there's more growth in the cloud. This is not stopping. This is impacts the customers. What are the customers saying to you guys when you work backwards from their needs? They want it faster, easier, cheaper. They want it more integrated. What are some of the things, all those you guys hearing from customers? >>So for us, you know, if you think about it, like, you know, as people are moving to the cloud, especially like take a use case like s3, right? So much of critical data sitting on top of S3 today. And so what folks have realized that as they're, you know, putting all of those, you know, what, over two 50 trillion objects, you know, sitting on s3, a lot of them need backup and data protection because there could be accidental deletions, there could be software bugs, there could be a ransomware type event due to which you need a second copy of the data that is outside of your security domain, right? But again, that needs to get be done at the, at the right price point, right? And that's where like a technology like Columbia comes in because since we've been built on the cloud, we've optimized it correctly. So especially for folks who are very cost conscious, given the macroeconomic conditions, we are heading into a technology that's built correctly so that, you know, you get the right architecture and the right solution at the right price point and the scale, right? Talking about trillions of objects, billions of objects within a single customer, within a single bucket sometimes. And that's where Columbia comes in. Cause we basically do that at scale without, again, impacting the, the customer's wallet more than it needs to. >>The porridge has to be the right temperature and the right size bowl. With the right spoon. You've got a lot of complexity when it comes to solving those customer challenges. You have a couple customer story examples you're allowed to share with us. Correct? Paul, do you want to kick one off? Go ahead. Oh, puja. All right. >>No, absolutely. I think there's a ton of them. I, I'll talk about, you know, want to begin with like Cox Automotive, right? A phenomenal customer that we, all of us have worked together with them. And again, looking for a solution to backup S3 to essentially go air gap protection outside of their account, right? They looked at doing it themselves, right? They thought they'll go and basically do it themselves. And then they fortunately bumped into Columbia, they looked at our architecture, looked at what it would really go and take to build it. And guess what, sitting in 2022, getting 23 right now, nobody wants to go and build this themselves. They actually want a turnkey solution that just does it, right? And so, again, we are a phenomenal joint customer of ours doing this at a pretty massive scale, right? And there are many more like that. There's Warner Brothers that are essentially going into the cloud from on premises, right? And they're going really fast accelerating the usage on aws again, looking at, you know, backup and data protection and using clum because of our extreme simplicity that we provide. >>Yeah, I think it's, you've got a, a lot of different people solving different problems that you're working with all the time. Millions of customers. Well, how do you prioritize? >>Well, for us, it really all comes down to fundamentals, right? So Amazon, s3 s unique distributed architecture delivers industry leading durability, availability, performance and security at virtually unlimited scale, right? And it's really been delivering on the fundamentals that has earned the trust of so many customers of all sizes and industries over the course of over 16 years. Now, in terms of how we prioritize on behalf of those customers, we always say that 90% of our roadmap comes directly from what customers are telling us is important. And a large number of our customers now are using S3 through lumino, which is why the relationship is so important. We're here talking about customer use cases here at the show, and we do that regularly throughout the year as well. And that's, that's how we land on a road. >>And what are the, what are the top stories from customers? What, what are they telling you? What's the number one top three things you're hearing? >>I tell you, like, again, it just comes down to the fundamentals, right? Of security, availability, durability and performance at virtually unlimited scale. Like that is the first customer first discussions that we have with customers talking about durable storage, for >>Sure. What I find interesting in, you mentioned scale, right? That comes up a lot scale with data. Yeah. That we heard data. The big theme here, security, what's in my S3 bucket? Can you find out what's in there? Is it backed up properly? How do I get it back? Where's the ransomware? Why not just target the ransomware? So how do you navigate the, the security challenges, the, the need to store all that scale data? What's the secret sauce? >>Yeah, so I think the, the big thing is we'll start with the, you know, how we have architected the product, right? If you think about it, this, you're dealing with a lot of scale, right? You get to a hundred million, a billion and billions very fast on S3 few, especially on a cloud native application. So it starts with the visibility, right? It's basically about, like we have things where you do, where you create a subset of your buckets called protection groups that you can essentially, you know, do it based on prefixes. So now you can essentially figure out what prefix you want to back up and what you don't want to back up. Maybe there's log data that you don't care about, so you don't back that up, right? And it all starts with that visibility that you give. And the prefix level data protection then comes the scale, which is where I was telling you, right? We have basically built an orchestration engine, right? It's like we call the ES for Lambdas, right? So we have a internal orchestration engine and essentially what what we have done is we have our own language internally that spawns off these lambdas, right? And they go after these S3 partitions do the right things and then you basically reel them back. So things like that that we do that are not possible if you're not built on the >>Clock. Well also, I mean, just mind blowing and go back 10 years. Yeah. I mean you got Lambda. What you're talking about here is the gift of the cloud innovation. Yeah. So the benefit of S3 is now accelerated. This is the story this year. Yeah. I mean they're highlighting it at scale, not just in the data, but like what we knew when Lambda came out and what S3 could do. But now mainstream solutions are coming in. Does that change your backup plans? Because we're gonna see a lot more end to end, lot more solutions. We heard that on the keynote. Some are saying it's more complexity. Of course it might, but you can abstract another way with the cloud that's the best part of the cloud. So these abstraction leads. So what's your view on that? But I wanna get your thoughts because you guys are perfectly positioned for this scale, but there's more coming. Yes. Yes. Exactly. What, how are you looking at that? >>So again, I think the, you know, obviously the, the S3 teams and every team in AWS is basically pushing the envelope in terms of innovation. But the key for a partner like us is to go and take that innovation. A lot of complex architectures behind the scene. But what you deliver to the customer is simple. I'll give you one more example. One of the things we launched that, you know, Paul and others are very excited about, is this ability to do instant access on the backup, right? So you could have billions of objects that you backed up. Maybe you need just 10,000 of them for a DR test. And we can basically create like an instant virtual bucket on top of that backup that you can instantly restore >>Spinning up a sandbox of temporary data to go check it >>Out. Exactly. Offer an inte application. >>Think we're geeking out right now. >>Yeah, I know. Brought that part of the segment, John. Don't worry, we're safely there. But, >>But that's the thing, right? That all that is possible because of all the, the scale and innovation and all the APIs and everything that, you know, Paul and the team gives us that we go and build on top of >>Paul, geek out on with us on this. We >>Are super excited for instant restore >>For store. I mean, automation programmability. >>It is, I mean it's the logical next step for backup in the cloud. Exactly. Yeah. But it's a super hard engineering problem to go solve for customers. I mean, the RTO benefits alone are super compelling, but then there's a cost element as well of not having to bring back all that stuff for a test restore, for example. And so it's, it's been really great to, to work with the team on that. We have some ideas on how we may help solve it from our side, and we're looking forward to collaborating on it. >>This is a great illustration of what I was writing about this week around the classic cloud, which is great. And as Adam said, and used like to use the word and, and you got this new functionality we're seeing emerge from the growth. Yes. From the companies that are built on Amazon web services that are growing. You're a partner, they have a lot of other partners and people are taking over restaurant here off action. I mean, there's real growth and new functionality on top of aws. You guys are no different. What's, are you prepared for that? Are you ready to go? >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think if you think about, if you think about it, right, I think it's also about doing this without impacting the primary application. Like if the customer is running a primary application at scale on s3, a backup application like ours can't come in and really mess with that. So I think being able to do things where, and this is where you solve really hard computer science problems, right? Where you're bottling yourself. If you are essentially seeing any kind of, you know, interfering with the primary, you're going to cut yourself down. You're gonna go after a different partition. So there are a lot of things you need to do behind the scenes, which is again, all the complexity, all of that, but deliver the, to the customer a very, very simple thing. >>You know, Paul, I wanna get your thoughts and I want you to chime in. Yeah. In 2014, I interviewed Steven Schmidt, my first interview with the, he was the CISO then, and now he's a CSO and, and former ciso, he's back at that time, the word was the cloud's not secure. Now we're talking about security. Just in the complexity of how you're partitioning and managing your sub portions, how you explained it, it's harder for the attackers. The cloud in its in its architecture has become a more secure environment. Yeah. Well, and getting more secure as you have laying out this, this is a new dynamic. This is good. Can you explain the, >>I mean, I, I can just tell you that at AWS security is job zero and that it will always be our number one priority, right? We have a, an infrastructure with under AWS that is vetted and approved to run even top secret workloads, which benefits all customers in all regions. >>And your, your security posture is embedded on top of that. And you got your own stuff. >>Yeah. And if you think of it as a shared responsibility model, so security of the cloud is the responsibility of the cloud provider, but then security of the data on top of it. Like you, you go and delete stuff, your software goes and does something that resiliency, the integrity of the data is your responsibility as a customer. And that's where, you know, we come in. Who >>Shared responsibility has been such a hot topic all week. Yeah. >>I gotta ask him one more question. Cause this is fascinating. And we are talking about on the cube all day today after we saw the announcement and Adam's comment on the cube, Adams LE's comment on the keynote. I mean, he said, if you're gonna tighten your belt, meaning economic cost recovery, re right sizing. If you want to tighten your belt, come to the cloud. So I have to ask you guys, Puja, if you can comment, that'd be great. There's a lot of other competitors out there that aren't born on aws. What is the customer gonna do when they tighten the build? What does that mean? They're gonna go to, to the individual contracts. They're gonna work in the marketplace. I mean this, there's a new dynamic in town. It's called AWS 2022. They weren't really around much in the recession of 2008. They were just starting to grow. Now they're an economic force. People like yourselves have embedded in there. There's a lot of competition. What's gonna happen? >>I think people are gonna just go to a place like, you know, AWS marketplace. You're going to essentially look for solutions and essentially like, and, and the right solutions built in are going to be self-service like aws. It's a very self-service thing. A hundred percent. So you go and do self-service, you figure out what's working, what's not working. Also, the model has to be consumption oriented. No longer can you expect the customer to go and pay a bunch of money for shelfware, right? It's like, like how we charge how AWS charges, which is you pay for what you consume. That and all has to be front and center, >>Right? I think that's a really, I think that's a really important >>Point. It's time >>And I think it's time. So we have a new challenge on the cube. We give you 30 seconds roughly to give us your extraordinarily hot take your shining thought leadership moment and, and highlight what you think is the most important takeaway from the show. The biggest soundbite, the juiciest announcement. Paul, I'll >>Start with an Instagram. Real basically. Yeah. Okay. >>Yeah. Hi. Go. I would just say from an S3 perspective, over the course of the last several years, we've really seen workloads shift from just backup and recovery and static images on websites to data lake analytics applications. And you continue to see that here. And I can tell you that some of these scaled applications are running at enormous mind blowing scale, right? And so, so every year we come here, we talk to customers, and it's just every year it sort of blows me away. And I've been in the storage industry for a long time and it's just is, it blows me away. Just the scale at customers are running in >>And >>Blowing scale. And when it comes to backup, let me just say that it's easy to back up and recover a single object, but doing an easy thing, a billion or 10 billion times over, that's actually quite hard. >>And just to, just to bold that a little bit, just pull out my highlighter. S3 now has over 280 trillion objects. That's a lot. >>That's a lot of objects. >>Yeah. You are not, you are not kidding. When you talk about scale, I mean, this is the most scalable. >>That's not solution's not there. Yeah. That, that's right. And we wake up every, we have a culture of durability and we wake up every single day to raise the bar on the fundamentals and make sure that every single one of those objects is protected and safe. >>Okay. You, I, >>I can't imagine worrying about two, two 80 trillion different things. >>Let's go. You're Instagram real >>For me again, you know, between S3 and us, we are two players out there that are really, you know, processing the data at the end of the day, right? And so I'm very excited about, you know, what we are going to do more and more with the instant restore capability where we can integrate third party services on top of it that can do more things with the data that is not, not passively sitting, but now becomes active data that you can analyze and do things with. So that's something where we take this to the next level is something that I'm super excited about. >>There's a lot to be excited about and, and we're excited to have you. We're excited to hear what happens next. Excited to see more collaboration like this. Paul Pon, thank you so much for joining us here on the show. Thank all of you from for tuning into our continuous wall to wall super thrilling live coverage of AWS reinvent here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada, with John Furrier. I'm Savannah Peterson. We're the cube, the leading source for high tech coverage.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by AWS Global Partner Network. Right. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 were virtual this year. We're not in person. We have to do it remote but the Cuba's virtual And I'm John for your host here with Cube Virtual next guest, Sarah Cooper, who is the general manager of the i o T Solutions with a W s. Sarah. Great to see you. Eso you last year in person. In real life, now we're remote. But thanks for coming on. Thank you. >>Thanks, John. Always good to be on the Cube and great to see you again. I don't know how many years it's been from our initial meeting, but it's been a few. >>Well, we gotta we gotta cube search engine. You were on in 2016, but we saw each other last year on when we're riffing on the i o t. News. A lot of great stuff. I mean, from Speed Racer all the way down through all the industrial stuff. Even more this year. But two things that jumped out at me this year. War is the carrier keynote and also the BlackBerry kind of automotive thing again speaks to kind of two megatrends. Obviously, automotive will get to a second, but the carrier announcement was really interesting. You guys did this thing and I was so impressed with the cold chain, uh, product. It was the connected cold chain. It was called, Um, this is where the carrier, which is known for air conditioning This is critical I o t devices that stays with the vaccines involved. Take a minute to explain what the cold chain connected cold chain project waas. >>Yeah, absolutely. So. So we worked closely and are working closely with Carrier on on a product called Links Now Cold chain. Um, as Dave Gitlin, the CEO of Carrier, described in Andy's keynote eyes about moving perishable goods, things that need certain temperature ranges from point A to point B and that usually it sounds simple. Uh, that's not quite so simple. It's usually you know, least you know, 5 to 25 hops, sometimes as much as 40. Andi zehr these air partial goods This is food. This is medicines. This is vaccines. Very hot topic at the moment. And today you know you're moving between ships and those big tractor trailers, and you've got warehouses with refrigeration units and you've got retail grocery stores with refrigeration units thes air, all different data sources that are owned by different. You know, members of that supply chain that value chain and to end. And so what links does is it pulls the data from all of the curier equipment and then pulls that data and looks across all of this information, using things like machine learning to draw inference and relationship and then be allows us to be able to make smart recommendations on things like routes. Or, if you know, a particular produce might need to stop before its original event to make sure it's got long shelf life. It allows us basically to provide that transparency and toe end, which is so difficult because of the number of players. And it's in part due to curious breath of products. And then, you know, with AWS, we're bringing the digital technology side. We got the i o t. The M l. A lot of big data processing pieces, eh? So we're really excited about that. I have to say It's one of the easiest projects to hire for when you talk about making sure that we're able to reduce food waste from the current 30 to 40% or that we're working on making sure that vaccines are efficacious by the time that they get a vaccination site, engineers sign up pretty quickly. >>You know the cliche. You know, mission driven companies. They're always kind of like people love the work for mission driven companies. In this case, you have a project and group that literally is changing the world. If you think about just the life savings on the on the on the vaccine side, that's obvious. We all can relate to that now with covert on full display. But just in terms of energy consumption, on food, ways to perishables if you get the costs involved to society, hunger around the world. Uh, just >>food is >>just wasted, and there are people starving, right? So when you start looking at this as an instrumentation problem, right, it gets really interesting. So you mentioned supply chain value chain. This is I o t potentially, even Blockchain again. This is a key change. The world area. You guys have a multi year deal with Carrier, So validation. What does that mean? Specifically, you guys gonna provide cloud services? Um, what's that all mean? >>Yeah. So we were bringing our engineering talent as this carrier. This is a code development, so we're actually jointly developing together. They bring a lot of the domain expertise they bring, you know, years and years of experience in refrigeration, Um, and in, you know, track and trace of these products. And we bring engineers who have vast experience at scale in these kinds of inference, challenges and and data management and data quality. And so it's really kind of bringing the best of both worlds. And you see this happening more and more. I think in general, where you've got a company like AWS that has strong digital expertise and a history of product innovation, working with customers that are very innovative themselves, but typically have been innovative in in, you know, traditional hardware products and the two worlds coming together to make sure that we can really solve some of the big challenges that are facing our society today. And, um, again, you know, it's great to wake up in the morning and get to work on a project that has that kind of impact. >>Well, before we move on to the whole BlackBerry automotive thing, which is another whole fascinating thing share something that people might not know about this carrier project. That's important. Um, whether it's something anecdotal, something that you know, Um, that's important. What, what what's what's What else is there that's game changing that you think is important to point out? >>Yeah, you know, I don't know that when we first started working with Carrier on on scoping this project that I had really thought through all the different players that are touched by cold chain. Um, certainly we've got a number of them within Amazon with our our fulfillment technologies and our grocery stores. That that's logical. Um, you think about the shippers and people who are out, you know, um, farming. And you know, I mean, crabmeat is something that moves in these big refrigerated containers, but actually there's there are transportation companies. There's drivers of these big rigs that need to make sure that they're being that they have fuel consumption management. You've got customers, you know, really kind of throughout that piece, freight forwarders. And so really the breath of the people that are touched, not just you and I is consumers of of perishable goods and fruits and produce on DNA medicines, but also really, that full end to end ecosystem on that's That's both the exciting part from A from a business standpoint, but also the exciting part from the technology stand. >>Well, it's great work, and I applaud you for it's one of those things where foodways isn't just a supply chain impacts the rest of the world because you're more efficient. You could distribute food, toe other places where people are hungry and just its overall impact is huge trickle effect. So impact is huge. Okay, now let's talk about the automotive peace. Because last year we had on the Cube folks from BlackBerry and remember them came on like BlackBerry. Isn't that the phone that went extinct by the iPhone? No, no. There's a whole nother io ti automotive thing around. Ivy Ivy? Why intelligent vehicle data platform? You guys just announced a multiyear agreement with them to develop that product combined with some of the I O. T and machine learning. Could you take him in to explain what this relationship is. What does it mean? What does it mean for the industry? >>Yeah, it's It's similar to the carrier relationship. You know we are. We're engineering together. Um, in this instance Q and X, which is a division of BlackBerry, is in 175 million vehicles. I mean, just think about that. They're running under the covers, and they are. They are a safety security layer and a real time operating system. So you know, when you think about all of the products, really end end in Q and X isn't just in automotives. It's in nuclear power plants. It's in manufacturing automation. It's one of those products that that you probably benefit from, but you didn't know it. Um, and in the automotive space, it's the piece that manages the safety certified layers of data coming off of sensors in the car. And so, fundamentally, what we're doing with Ivy is we're up leveling that information today. If you think about a car, you've got 1500 suppliers that are all providing parts into that far, which means that different makes and models have different seats. Sensors to give you wait in the back, you know, seat as an example. And so if do you want to write an application that tries to determine if that weight in the back seat is your dog or not, my dog happens to be bothering me at the moment. Z. >>That's one of the benefits of working at home. You know? >>Absolutely. So we'll use him as an excuse here. But if you want to know if that's a dog on the back seat, um, being able Thio, then figure out the PC electric measurements and the algorithms, um means you have to know what sensors air in that back seat, which means you got to write essentially an application Pir sensor manufacturer for vehicle make and model That doesn't work so fundamentally What Ivy does, is it? It abstracts away the differences between the vendors and then it up levels information by using machine learning and analytics running in the car. To be able to allow a developer to say, you know, a P I. Is there a dog in the car like How simple is that? I don't have to figure out what the weight measurement is. I don't know. I have to know if there's cameras in the car or if there's some other way to know. If the dog I just need to ask, Is there dog in the car? And the A P. I, for my view, will tell you yes, No, or I don't know, you know, because sometimes there isn't the technology to know that. And then the application developer can then use that information to build delightful experiences, things that make your dog behave, hopefully, things that might help protect them on a hot day. Um, you know, in things where you know that if there's a child in the car, you don't play explicit lyrics. If they're fighting in the back seat, you make sure that the cartoons go off until they behave themselves and cartoons come back on. There are lots of in vehicle experiences that can be enabled by this as well as vehicle operations. So, you know, being able to do >>yeah and all that stuff. >>Yeah, Selective recalls making sure that Onley cars that are actually affected need to come in and making sure that that you know, that's that's quantified and that, you know, it is actually safe to drive to the point of recall. All of that could be done on a vehicle by vehicle basis. >>So are you competing with car companies now? >>No, fundamentally, the oe EMS are the Are the companies that that the car manufacturers are those that end up delivering this capability and they own the data. You know, this isn't something where BlackBerry or A W S owns the data the auto manufacturers dio so it's there platforms to make a delightful experience out of, um, we're just helping to make sure that that's as easy as possible and opening up. You know, the potential innovation so that it's, you know, it's certainly their developers internally. But if they want take advantage of the millions of AWS developers now, they could do that. >>Sarah, Great to have you on one of the things. I just want a final questions or final point. Let's get your reaction to Is that it seems to me with the cloud in this post covert scale error when you start to get into edge, um, you know, industrial I o t. You hear things like instrumentation supply chain, these air buzzwords, these air kind of characteristics all kind of in play. But the other observation is partnerships, arm or co engineering. Co development vibe. Is that just unique? Thio what you're doing? Or do you see this as kind of as a template for partnering? Because when you start to get these abstraction layers, the heavy lifting can be under the covers. You have this enablement model. What's your quick take on this? >>Yeah, I think we talk about undifferentiated heavy lifting, a lot of Amazon on defunding mentally. That's different for each industry. And he talked about that. His keynote. And so I think you know you'll see more and more co development and co engineering coming from from companies across when we have big technical challenges and these air complex problems to solve it takes a village >>awesome. Sarah Cooper Thanks for coming on GM of Iot. TIF Solutions A. The best to great success stories. The carrier and Blackberry, one Automotive with Black Braids operating system that powers the safety and for cars and, hopefully, future of application, development and carrier, with the cold connected chain delivering perishable goods, vaccines and food. Changing the game. That's a game changer. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks, John appreciate. Always good to see you. >>Okay. Cube coverage. Jump shot for your host. Stay with us from or coverage throughout the day and all next couple weeks. Thanks for watching. Yeah. Mhm.

>> From around the globe, it's "theCUBE" with coverage of SUSECON Digital. Brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is CUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. Happy to welcome back to the program one of our CUBE alumni, Alan Clark, he is in the CTO office of SUSE. He works on emerging technologies and open source. Sits on many of the boards for many of those open source organizations. Alan, nice to chat with you. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for the invitation. I appreciate the opportunity. It's always fun to chat with you, Stu. >> All right, so Alan, you know, open source of course, you know, had a broad impact on the industry. Lots of talk. You know, we talk about soft breeding the world, the impact of open source. Haas on software. Give us, you know, start us a little bit kind of the state of the state as to what you're seeing broadly when it comes to. >> You know, I'm just, I keep, I enjoy this industry, 'cause it's just booming. I got into open source a long time ago, before my hair was gray, and I just can't, it just continues to surprise me and amaze me at how much it's grown. And even from, not just as projects, right? Those continue to exponentially grow, but think about the adoption, right? And from SUSE's perspective, we've got critical mission infrastructure running on open source and that is just totally amazing, right? And they've got aerospace manufacturing firms, Fortune 100s, Fortune 500s, Fortune 50s, the world's largest banks, four or five of the world's largest banks are running on SUSE Linux, right? Automotive vendors, 12 of the 15 largest automotive vendors are running on open source, running on SUSE Linux, and 10 of the largest telecommunications firms are running on SUSE, and it just goes to show that open source is really growing and is being adopted and used by critical infrastructure for the world. Particularly in these troubling days, right? >> Yeah, I mean, Alan, I've always loved diggin' into the data, you know? I haven't followed it for quite as long as you, but I've been involved for comin' up on 20 years now, and you think back 15 or 20 years it was somebody in the back room contributing some code in their spare time when they have it. When I look at the state of open source today, you mentioned lots of enterprises are using it, but lots of enterprises are contributing to it, and it's not necessarily somebody in their spare time doing it, but more and more it part of my job is leveraging and contributing back, upsource to what's happening there, so how are you seeing that? How does that impact the overall governance of open source? >> So, that's a very good question, 'cause the amount of change is huge, right? So these open source foundations have grown very large and the number of people that are contributing to them, not just in code, but in ideas, in best practices and so forth has exponentially grown, and it's amazing to see that. Plus, I guess the other part of it that I really enjoy is it's gone global, right? It used to be these projects were kind of regional, and perhaps North America to Europe, but it's, they've gone global, so these larger projects'll have 170, 180 countries that are involved. That's truly amazing. And the thing that I find very interesting, particularly given the pandemic era, we're all sitting at our homes right now. As open source developers, we're very used to this environment. We're working from home. We're scattered around the globe. We're used to working in different time zones, different geographies, and we know how to communicate and work together, so having this distance and lack of an office is actually not that much of an impediment for open source. So it's actually kind of to their advantage. >> Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I'd done lots of interviews with developer communities and remote work is just the way they do things. Contributing code is very much an asynchronous nature of what they were doing. Alan, I love you talked about the global nature. One of the things, I was looking forward to being at this event in person was we were going to go to Dublin, you know, great city. (Alan laughs) Love to travel. When we cover a European show, it's always, "Okay, what is different "about different geographies "compared to North America?" You know, you talk about cloud adoption in general tends to be a little bit higher in North America. Any data or anecdotes that you have globally as to how open source is maybe a little bit different and culturally thought of from organizations that might be based in Europe, Asia, Latin America, or the like? >> Yeah, that's to me one of the strengths of these communities now is the difference in perspectives that you get from the different geographies, right? From Europe to Asia and so forth, and it sometimes surprises you, right? You get so used to a few vendors maybe dominating a certain area, and what you find out is they may be strong in a certain geography, but they're not globally. And as other developers and community members and users come in and start talking about their needs and their use cases, you find that their perspective is different than yours and it's kind of that "Ah ha" moment of "Oh, we need to make sure "the software works for everybody "and fits their need." And I guess the second part of that would be, you know, with this pandemic, it's causing the whole industry dynamics to change, and businesses are finding that they've got to rapidly adapt and change, and open source is one of the ways they're able to do that, right? Our customer sentiments are changing. Their purchasing habits are obviously changed. The way we shop, the way we do business, the way we're meeting people, right? We're all doing it digitally now. That's changing the services that companies need to deliver. And one of the powers of open source is being able to provide that to them and deliver those services very rapidly to them. And another dynamic here that I'm finding is interesting is customers, or consumers of open source, the businesses that are consuming open source are realizing that with these times, you know, you've got to have multiple sources for your supply chain. We have a lot more discussion about being nationalized instead of globalized, you know, when borders shut down and you can't get your supplies from another country, where are you going to get them, right? So those kinds of discussions change your source of supplies and so forth, so you have to diversify a little bit, and that's causing new types of services that are going to be created, needed. The beauty of open source, though, is it's global, and so I can get access to it whether I'm here in Salt Lake City or I'm sitting up in Dublin, wherever I'm at. And it's awesome. It's just amazing. >> Excellent, Alan. So, you know, you talked about some of the impact of what the global pandemic happening. They can leverage remote work. Open source is something that they can get ready access to. I'm curious if there's any other things in the community, you know, rallying points that you're seeing, any good stories or anecdotes that you might be able to share. >> So, I guess the other aspect of this I find extremely encouraging is, open source is amazing for individuals, not just businesses, right, to consume it, but me as an individual to learn new ideas, new technologies, try things out. And it's a great opportunity right now, particularly for home bound to go out and learn new ideas, learn about new concepts, new technologies, learn about Kubernetes, learn about containers, learn about rapid software development, right? And SUSE's actually caught onto this. This is one of the things I find really cool is they've got a couple things that are going on. First, they've created a sandbox out there where I, as an individual, for free can go out there and give rapid application development a try. It's being at home, often I don't have the full equipment that I would have at the office, right? So getting an environment set up, having the equipment and access that I need to get an environment set up to try something out, you know, like Kubernetes or application development. I may not have that at my home. So SUSE's set up some sandboxes out there where, as a developer, I can go out and give SUSE's application platform development a try. It's easy, it's all set up for me. I can go out there and I can play. Try out new concepts, see what Kubernetes is about, see what rapid development is about. And it minimizes my, you know, the task and the equipment that I need to be able to do that. The second part of that is they've opened up a lot of their online training courses for free for developers as well and operators. So it's a great time for, we're stuck at home, it's a great time to take advantage of these resources and learn more about open source. >> Great, yeah, absolutely. Alan, I spoke to your CEO, Melissa, and we talked about the importance of the developer communities. You mentioned the sandbox there. I'm curious, anything else you've seen, kind of the changing dynamic about how developers integrate with the business. One of the constant themes we talk about is IT isn't just something that's on the side, but is a clear partner with the business and often is a driver for the business, so the developers often need some education, they need communication. What do you see and how are the development communities changing? >> Oh, so I think a great part of this, this year is all the events that are going virtual. So we've got tons of resources available within these communities and through companies like SUSE, as we just talked about, and we also have these events that are going virtual, so all this content is now becoming readily accessible. I hear often from developers saying, "Well, my company doesn't give us much "for money for traveling to these events "and conferences and so forth." Now that they're all going virtual it's given 'em great access to amazing materials, and the beauty of these events is that a lot of the material is framed around helping you understand how to develop open source, how to become a part of the community, and then also about what this technology is about, where it's heading. So you, particularly as an IT organization, I get a great insight as to where the technology's going. What's the future look like? What are the ideas that are being formed by all these individuals from around the world? What's their perspectives? And then I can turn, and tying that to the business, is I can take that and take that to my business and say, "Look, here's where the technology is heading. "Here's how we can use it to enhance our business "and deliver better services to our customer." So it's a great opportunity this year. >> Yeah, you're right, Alan. There's often that gap between the people that can attend and what content is available to everyone else, and, you know, seems to be opening up. Everything from, you know, it funny, Disney is giving away the recipes for some of the things that they're doing through the conferences, typically free to attend and on demand soon after doing. All right, Alan, you're in the emerging technologies group. So, last thing I want to ask is give us a little bit look forward. What is your group looking at or the communities that you're involved in? What are some of the things that are exciting you and your peers? >> So, SUSE expanding from the edge to the cloud, to the core, right? And so we're covering things all the way from the gamut. Lot of new exciting stuff happening out on the edge with IoT and with edge services. Pretty excited about that area. SUSE's had a lot of experience in that space, particularly if you look at manufacturing providing, helping them, those businesses, the manufacturing firms meet their SLAs. Had a lot of experience in the retail space, around point of service. That, of course, is pivoting to self-service, to frictionless shopping, that types of stuff, so it's pretty exciting in those areas. So there's a lot going on in the edge. Healthcare, SUSE's been very involved, embedded in a lot of healthcare devices. That business will continue to grow, so we're seeing a lot about, on the edge. We talked a bit about rapid development. So back at the core and the cloud we're trying to make that a seamless experience so you can push those workloads, build those workloads in a containerized, micro-service manner, and distribute those pieces where it makes sense, right? So we talk about artificial intelligence gathering the data out on the edge, doing a bit of filtering and processing, moving that up to the core and the cloud, being able to mine that data, learn intelligently, then orchestrate your services, orchestrate your core appropriately, right? To meet those demands that your customers are putting on you. There's just a lot going on. We got containers. We've got hybrid cloud. We've got multicloud. We got intelligent orchestration. Then we could go on and talk a ton, we could talk for 30 minutes just about what's happening in the data space. So there's a lot to look forward to when it comes to open source and the innovation that's happening out there. >> All right, well, Alan Clark. Great to catch up with you. Thank you so much for giving us a little bit of vision. >> Thank you, Stu. >> Where we've been, and where we're going. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, I'm Stu Miniman and stay tuned for more coverage from SUSECON Digital '20. Thank you for watching "theCUBE." (calm electronic music)

>> Narrator: From New York City It's theCUBE covering New Relic FutureStack 2019. Brought to you by New Relic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Minimen and we're here at New Relic's FutureStack 2019 at the Grand Hyatt, next to Grand Central Station, here in New York City. Happy to welcome to the program a first time guest, Roger Scott who's the Chief Customer Officer at New Relic. Roger, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks, Stu. Thanks for having me on. Good to be here. >> Alright so, I love this morning actually in addition to hearing all of the announcements, my first hand full of guests on theCUBE were customers. So I got to hear from them and we know your team is always excited about the announcements, but definitely enthusiasm from the customers, things in the keynote that got people. >> Fired up! Yeah. >> Clapping, and fired up. >> Great to see. >> Things like, oh wait! 10 terabytes of data, pressure thing, refresh for like a second, and >>oh my gosh! There's results. Yeah >> Pretty impressive so maybe give us a little bit of insight into customer engagement and how it's let to the bevy of announcements here at the show. >> Oh it's a great question actually and I think in my capacity as Chief Customer Officer and the functions I'm responsible for, we're continually engaging with customers as you can imagine. And one of the things we take a lot of pride in is being a proxy for the voice of the customer back into the organization. So we have a pretty rigid process. Not rigid, a pretty discipline process, I would argue, that allows us to get feedback from the field, listen to our customers, understand what's important to them, and reflect that in our product roadmap. And I'll let you know that's on a weekly cadence we do that. Now we're not doing that in a reactive fashion such that our roadmap diverts every single week in there, but we hear that constant feedback from the field as to what our customers are lacking. So lot of what you hear today, in terms of those six great announcements that we have were a combination of feedback that we've had over the last couple of years, I would argue. Because it's a dramatic shift to go from what we were previously, which was essentially six individual products that work really well together. But through the release of New Relic 1 in May earlier this year and what we announced today has truly developed us in to a observability platform. So monitoring with six different products to a true observably platform that's open, connected and programmable is a dramatic shift. And that's a combination of a bunch of feedback from our customers over the years. >> Yeah. I'm sure it's pretty much feedback from all customers. They're not asking for more tools and more interfaces and more things that they need to learn. >> Roger: Not at all, right. >> In many ways software can be a unifying feature especially that term platform who spend a bunch of time emphasizing what's needed from platform. >> Maybe, what were your costumers struggling with that kind of New Relic 1 in general is looking to solve as well as the observability piece? What went into that launch that was costumer pinpoints and things that they'd been asking for. >> Yeah maybe to stand back a little bit and understand some of the challenges that costumers had and then why they were asking for different solutions or evolution of our solution. If you think about today's world, there's this rapid development an deployment of software, so it's almost got to the point of continuous software deployment. And so your speed of needing to be able to react to problems in your environment, your costumer experience are degrading, ect. Being able to respond to that really quickly is essential, understanding the costumer experience is essential. You talked about operational efficiency of reducing the number of tooling sets or data sets that I'm looking at continually. So anything that we could provide to our costumers that allowed them to get to answers quicker, understand the why, and then be able to remediate that really easily so that the costumers have a greater experience. And at the same time reduces this friction that's unnecessarily introduced when you're going from one product to another, one tool to another and you're spending too much time rationalizing data sets across those tool sets. So consolidation is a big theme, ability to get to your answers really quickly is a big theme and that's really been the genesis of being able to create a platform. But not just a platform for consolidation, for better visibility, and observability but we believe it's not truly a platform until you can develop on it. If you think back in technology history of all the different peradams we've had throughout the history of technology, those who've won the platform wars over the years have been really good at being able to provide tools and ease of adoption of the platform by virtue of being able to build things on top of it. The ability to give people tools that allow them to build technology is really a therasense of the platform as well. >> You know, Roger, there's a certain trust level that costumers have to have if they're going to be building on top of your platform. >> When I've talked to costumers in New Relic they do talk about a partnership >> and the good back and forth but there's definitely a certain amount of stickiness once they've built something on your platform. >> Roger: Right, yeah. >> Any concerns from them as to, you know there's that term lock in out there as to the how do I know that this is going to work for me, and that I'm not going to have my pricing kind of crank up over time and be like oh my gosh, a year or two later, what did I get myself into? >> Right. It's a really important point that I'd like to start off by actually reemphasizing the point you made. I think we pride ourselves on the relationship we have with our costumers. It truly is the heart of everything at my organization does. We have this saying that we are because they are. In the realization that if we don't serve our costumers really well they have choices frequently, we're a saas vendor, the contracts come up for renewal frequently. And if you're unable to deliver on the promises that you made in the sales process, once they implement your solutions and try to use those in production, environments and everyday work if you can't deliver on those promises then you're going to breakdown that level of trust. And trust is at the center of all relationships as you know. Whether it's a personal relationship, you're playing on a sports team, whether you're working with your costumers. And so we want to make sure that we can deliver on those promises once we've sold them the product. So I haven't heard any specific concerns about lock in or anything, I think what they regularly come to us though with is they want us to have a really strong point of view, want us to be opinionated, tell them how this should work effectively together, what does best practice look like, what's the gold standard, what are some of the artifacts, tools, frameworks, reusable templates that we can share with them that accelerates their time to value. So I think the value significantly outweighs the concerns around lock in or reduction of the number of vendors that they're working with. >> If I look at really the enterprise space, you've got costumers working through their application modernization. They've got their modelist their going after micro services. I heard a stat that only about five to ten percent of apps are monitored at the app level today. >> Yeah, pretty scary, isn't it? >> Yeah, how many of your costumers are dealing with the installed state versus new deployments and what are some of the challenges you're hearing from costumers there? >> Yeah and I think it's important to pause that number because I think it's five to ten percent or growing to twenty percent as I think got indicated. If you look at those organizations Born In The Cloud or Born Digital it's significantly higher percentage of that which is possibly an indictment of the low level of instrumentation we see in a lot of legacy software technology stacks. And so I think in today's world we're tryna get that level of instrumentation observability up as much as possible. But maybe to link back to your previous question as well I think there's an important aspect here of when we move to a platform. When you're a product company your differentiation comes through product, comes through the capability of that product features and functions and we've certainly found ourselves in a significant number of those battles against competition where it's feature and function based. That's not a great comfort for the costumer. I think when you move to a platform it's very much around the networks differentiation. When I say network differentiation I think it's about getting the users of your service access to third party applications to third party data sources be they open source data emitters, opentelementry, open sensors, Zipkin any of those data sets that we are now in support for today. Giving them access to those data sets and being able to enrich the experience that we provide them that network effects and that's really where we see the opportunity to deliver significantly more value to our costumers with the ability to then build your own applications on top of the platform. That's second to none in the industry in my opinion. >> Roger, what's New Relic's role in helping costumers as really they're modernizing their work force? When I talk to so many companies it's like they need to retrain and they have to have new skill sets they need to make sure as certain cloud in automation changes where they focus on things and embrace devops and new ways of doing things. There are a lot of challenges there. Where does New Relic play in that modernization for costumers? >> You know what I think it's in a couple ways. The ways that we, my organization, can help the costumer in terms of just sheer understanding of the capability of the platform, what are best practices, how we can drive better accountability as you move to these new technology stacks and new ways of working much more agile environments. And so I think we can do a combination of that just sheer skills development, working really tightly with the likes of AWS you would've heard Dave McCann this morning talking about how when costumers migrate the application work goes to the AWS cloud environment. Hopefully they're not just doing that by way of compute lift and shift but they were actually looking at modernizing and refactoring those applications and when they do that, you heard Dave talk through a number of assets and frameworks and models and reusable best practices that we're trying to work with them on that we can give to our costumers that accelerate their journey 'cause it's not easy. We were talking to Chris Dillon this morning from Cox Automotive and when you think of an organization like that that's forty, fifty years old and has had to transform itself in terms of digital experience for it's costumer base, it's a significant cultural adjustment quite often to get teams to work in fundamentally different ways. So it's not an insignificant challenge but that's partly why we've invested so heavily in costumer success. Taking the costumers on the journey, thinking about their maturity over time, and constantly look for them to get better value from the platform. >> Roger, there are a number of things that have jumped out at me. Things like oh hey, we can save you potentially millions of dollars on your AWS cloud bill. You've already got costumers building on top of the platform, you had the future Haka event just a couple of weeks ago. Any other kind of interesting or exemplary costumer outcomes that you might be able to share? Either doesn't have to be about the new stuff but just that you've recently with your costumers. >> You know, one of the things that's most gratifying for me when talking to costumers is when we've been able to see when you work with older, more traditional companies that are undergoing some form of digital transformation and they're trying to shift a lot of the applications into a more modern stack and environment, become more agile, etc. they frequently sort of peel off part of the business and will have a digital division that will build some innovative, typically mobile based, apps. We've seen a number of different retailers that we've worked with. Number of different travel organizations where we've started out intrumenting the mobile application because they've built a new application to give their consumers or costumers access through to their services, and at some point that application is going to merge into the backend and have to connect back into older technology. And it's been the beauty of being able to connect those two different environments together. Not starting off at what we would've got as slightly easier place to start which was the more modern application environment where we are really well suited to. But then seeing the full value of being able to instrument the front end all the way through to the backend, link that back to the costumer's experience and to the impact on the business in terms of funnel analysis from number of people using the mobile application to actually ordering something to once they've ordered it, feeling satisfied in actually receiving the goods that they ordered. Being able to instrument all of that and understand the impact of performance and availability on the overall business arcam, that's when it's been truly transformational in working with costumers and that's certainly where we'd love to help more of our costumers in that fashion. >> Alright, Roger, want to give you the final word. Of course you bring together a number of costumers here at FutureStack in the U.S as well there's a few of those run in other geographical areas but throughout the year, any other key things you want to highlight as to how costumers can get engaged even more. >> Yeah, I mean, we've got a sort of what I would argue is a tiered approach to costumer success. At the very high end of our engagement model we have a significant number of resources. Solution architects, costumer success managers that we can deploy directly with our costumers. We typically do that in conjunction with them, build out success plans, etc. What we looking at investing Heavily at the moment is also having a good understanding of what the ideal costumer journey is like. Realizing that a costumer can come to an event like this and learn about our product but the best way for them to experience that is in the course of using the product. So heavy focus on product lead growth and how we actually deliver better value through the product itself, remove friction and adoption and getting to better value. We want to automate some of that costumer journey so that we know that if you've just signed up and, for instance, you've configured you're agent and you've done your learning policy but you haven't yet configured a custom apdex on that application or you haven't understood what your key transactions are, we've got all that data in the backend. So we're working really hard to understand how we get that information back out to costumers and go hey we know you haven't necessarily done this yet, here's some access to great assets. A short video clip, a self paced learn guide that somebody can get on demand from an LMS system. So trying to use a combination of direct resource investment, events like this where it's great to make announcements like we did about the six grade innovations and then increasingly using digital through the products but also through just the general costumer journey to say hey this is really important content and information, you should look at this now 'cause it's going to add value in what you're doing today. >> Alright, well Roger Scott, Chief Customer Officer at New Relic, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks so much, it's been great talking to you. >> All right. I'm Stu Minimen back with lots more here at New Relic FutureStack 2019 in New York City. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (outro music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18, here in Las Vegas. I'm your hose, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Josh Kahn. He is the General Manager of Platforms, ServiceNow. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE again. >> Yeah, really excited to be here. Thanks for being here and thanks for being part of our event. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> It's been a lot of fun. >> Newly minted. >> Yeah that's right. (laughing) >> Yes, congrats on the recent promotion. So tell us about your new role. >> Yeah, so I run the Platform Business Unit. We use the word platform a lot of different ways at ServiceNow and I think we're trying to get a little bit more clear about that. On the one hand, our platform is the core foundation that all of our applications and all of our customers' applications are built on. It's also a way that independent software vendors and our customers can build their own applications. So what my group is trying to do is really be more thoughtful and structured about how we go about gathering those requirements from our customers and our independent software vendor partners and make sure we're bringing the products to market that meet their needs, and that we're doing all of the things across the board as a company we need to do to make them successful because there's a lot that goes into long-term customer success from the sales teams to the solutions consultants to professional services and the Customer Success Management Team. We're bringing all those things to make sure that, as our customers are building applications, we're helping them be successful. >> I remember we had Erik Brynjolfsson and Andy McAfee on and they were making a point. This was years ago when they wrote their, I think, most recent book. They were saying platforms beat products, I'm like, okay, what do you mean? Look, you can make a great living doing products, but we are entering a platform era. It reminds me of the old Scott McNealy, car dealers versus car makers. If you want to be a car maker in this day and age, unfortunately Sun Microsystems never became that car maker, but you've got to have a platform. What's your perspective on all that? >> I totally agree. I think that every customer I talk to is looking for fewer, more strategic vendors and partners, and they're really saying, hey, be a strategic partner to me. Digital transformation is everywhere. Disruption is everywhere, and they're saying, hey, we need a few people we can really count on to help us build a strategy and execute on that strategy to get to the next place. Isolated, independent pieces of software tend to have a hard time becoming one of those strategic vendors, and I think the more you can be thought of as a platform, the more different kinds of workloads run on the same common shared infrastructure that provide shared data services, that can provide simple ways to get work across each other, the more value that you can bring and the more you can be thought of in that strategic partner realm. >> So you guys are a platform of platforms, we use that terminology a lot, and I think there's no question that for a lot of the C-level executives, particularly the CIOs that I talk to, you are becoming, ServiceNow is becoming a strategic platform provider. Who else is in there? Let's throw some... IBM, because of its huge services in certain industries, for sure, SAP because of its massive ERP estate. I mean, I don't know, Oracle, maybe, but it feels different, but maybe in some cases. Who do you see as your peers? >> The category of players that are in this space are really people that are investing big in the Cloud and investing big in intelligence and automation. And, I think, a lot of times automation can have kind of a negative connotation to it, but we really believe that automation can be used to serve people in the workplace and to make the world work better for people, not just make the world of work work without people. So when you look around at the people that are moving into that strategic realm, it's Cloud players, people who are providing either Cloud infrastructure or Cloud functions, a wide set of microservices capabilities, and people providing applications software as a service that start to cover a broader and broader portfolio. Clearly, Workday is thought of oftentimes as a strategic partner to their customers, because they provide a human capital management capability that's broader than just being a data repository. Salesforce is clearly a strategic partner to the sales and marketing organizations. The reality, though, is a lot of work that happens in the Enterprise cuts across these things, and so there's an opportunity for us to work with the Saleforces and the Workdays and the Googles and the Amazon Web Services of the world to help bring all of those things together. I think that what customers want is not only strategic technology providers, but strategic technology providers that will work with each other to solve customers' problems. >> John Donahoe on, I guess it was Tuesday, was saying we're very comfortable being that horizontal layer. We don't have to be the top layer, although I would observe that the more applications you develop, the more interesting the whole landscape becomes. >> Yeah, well, I think that's absolutely true. We're in the early stages of this, right? If you look at the amount of money that's spent in IT in the enterprise sector and then you start adding up all of these areas that I just mentioned, Cloud and SAS, it's still a very small amount of that overall spent. So clearly, big legacy technology vendors are incredibly relevant still today, but the challenge they'll have is making sure they stay relevant as this tide shifts to more Cloud, more intelligence, more automation in the workplace. >> I wonder if you could walk us through the process that you go through when you are working closely with customers, collaborating, trying to figure out what their problems are and solve them and then also solve the problems they don't even know they have, that you can provide solutions for. >> Actually, it's amazing, because in a lot of cases, the innovation, and this has been a phenomenal week, because I've gotten to meet with so many customers and see what they're doing. And what tends to happen with ServiceNow is the IT organization, oftentimes, it starts there. The IT organization brings it in for IT service management, and people start using that to request things that they need from IT, and they very quickly say, man, I have a process that would really benefit from exactly what you just did. Can you build my application on that? And so there starts to become this tidal wave of people asking the IT organization if they can start hosting applications on the platform. I'll give you one example from a company called Cox Automotive. Donna Woodruff, who's an innovation leader there and leads the ServiceNow platform team, found a process where they had a set of safety checks they do at all these remote sites as part of a car auctions, and it was a very spreadsheet-driven process that involved a lot of people doing manual checks, but it also had regulatory implications, insurance implications, and workplace happiness implications. And they were able to take this, put it on ServiceNow, and automate a lot of that process, make it faster, I should say digitize it, 'cause you still need the people going through and doing the checks, but were able to digitize it and make that person's job that much better. These applications are all over the place. They're in shared email inboxes, they're in Excel spreadsheets, they're in legacy applications. We don't actually have to go drive the innovation and the ideas. They end up coming to the ServiceNow platform owners and our customers. >> I'd like you to comment on some of the advantages of the platform and maybe some of the challenges that you face. When I think about enterprise software, I would generally characterize enterprise software as not a great user experience, oftentimes enterprise software products don't play well with other software products. They're highly complex. Oftentimes there's lots of customerization required, which means it's really hard to go from one state to another. Those are things that you generally don't suffer from. Are there others that give you advantages? And what are maybe some of the challenges that you face? >> I think it's true. Enterprise software, you used to have to train yourself to it. It's like, hey, we're going to roll out the new system. How are we going to train all the users? But you don't do that with the software we use in the consumer world. You download it from the app store and you start using it. If you can't figure it out, it's not going to go. >> You aint going to use it. >> Josh: Exactly right. So we put a lot of that thought process from the consumer world into our technology, but not just the technology we provide. We're trying to make it easier for our customers to then provide that onto their internal and external customers as well. Things like the Mobile Application Builder that we showed earlier today, that's coming in Madrid, it's an incredibly simple way to build a beautiful mobile application for almost anything in the workplace. And, again, as I was saying before, a lot of the ideas for applications come from people in the workplace. We've got to make it easy enough for them to not only to identify what the application potential is, but then build something that's amazing. What we're trying to do is put a lot of those design concepts, not just into the end products we sell, but into tools and technology that are part of the platform and the Platform Business Unit so that our customers can build something just like it in terms of experience, usability, simplicity, and power without having to have as many developers as we do. >> You and I have known each other for a number of years now, and just as we observed the other day, off camera, that you've been forced into a lot of challenges. I say forced, but welcomed a lot of challenges. >> I love it, I love it. >> All right, I mean, it's like, hey, I'll take that. No problem. You've had a variety of experiences at large companies. Things you've learned, opportunities ahead, maybe advice you'd give for others, like the hard stuff. >> I think one of the biggest things I've learned here, particularly at ServiceNow, is just the importance of staying focused on customers rather than competitors. I think a lot of times when you're in the business roles or strategy roles, you can really think a lot about who am I competing against, and you can forget that you really just need to solve the customer's problem as well as you possibly can. Be there for them when they need it. Have something that's compelling that addresses their needs, and stay laser-focused on what works for them, and at the end of the day you're got be successful. So that's a strategy we've really tried to take to heart at ServiceNow, is put the customers at the center of everything we do. We don't worry that much about competitors. They're out there and we know they're there and we study them, but it's really the customer that gets us up every morning. >> You know, it's interesting, I've had this, as well as John Furrier has, had this conversation with Andy Jassy a lot, and they're insanely focused on the customer where he says, even though he'll say, we get into a competitive situation, we'll take on anybody, but his point was both methods can work. Your former company, I would put into the very competitive, Oracle, I think, is the same way. Microsoft maybe used to me, maybe that's changing, but to a great extent would rip your face off if you were a competitor. My question is this: Is the efficacy of the head-to-head, competitive drive as effective as it used to be, and are we seeing a change toward a customer-centric success model? >> I think there's two things going on. I think one is once a market really kind of reaches maturity, the competitive dynamic really heats up. >> Dave: 'Cause you got to gain share. >> Yeah, you got to gain share. And today, in the Cloud world, in the intelligence world, there's just so much opportunity that you could just keep going for a long time before you even bump into people. I think in mature markets it's different, so I think a lot of times, partly at EMC, that was one of the dynamics we had is a very, very mature market on on-premise storage, and so you had to go head-to-head every time. But I think there's also the changing tenor of the world. People have a lot less, they don't care for that kind of dialogue as much anymore. They don't like it when you come in and talk bad about anybody else. So I think there's both dynamics at one, and the markets we're in, they're so new, they're growing so fast that it's not as important, but also, people don't care for it. I don't think it helps, if anything, sometimes it makes people wonder if they ought to be, oh, I didn't think about talking to them, maybe we should go call the competitor you just mentioned. (laughing) so, all that said, when you get into a fight, you got to fight hard and you got to come with the best stuff, so I think that's the reality. >> Dave: Great answer. >> That's a good note to end on. Thanks so much, Josh, for coming on theCUBE again. It's been a real pleasure having you here. >> All right. Thank you, I really appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge 18 just after this. (techy music)

>> Announcer: Live from New York City It's TheCube. Covering CyberConnect 2017. Brought to you by Centrify and the Institute for Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> It got out of control, they were testing it. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in New York City for CyberConnect 2017. This is Cube's coverage is presented by Centrify. It's an industry event, bringing all the leaders of industry and government together around all the great opportunities to solve the crisis of our generation. That's cyber security. We have Cricket Liu. Chief DNS architect and senior fellow at Infoblox. Cricket, great to see you again. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, nice to be back John. >> So we're live here and really this is the first inaugural event of CyberConnect. Bringing government and industry together. We saw the retired general on stage talking about some of the history, but also the fluid nature. We saw Jim from Aetna, talking about how unconventional tactics and talking about domains and how he was handling email. That's a DNS problem. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You're the DNS guru. DNS has become a role in this. What's going on here around DNS? Why is it important to CyberConnect? >> Well, I'll be talking tomorrow about the first anniversary, well, a little bit later than the first anniversary of the big DDoS attack on Dyn. The DNS hosting provider up in Manchester, New Hampshire. And trying to determine if we've actually learned anything, have we improved our DNS infrastructure in any way in the ensuing year plus? Are we doing anything from the standards, standpoint on protecting DNS infrastructure. Those sorts of things. >> And certainly one of the highlight examples was mobile users are masked by the DNS on, say, email for example. Jim was pointing that out. I got to ask you, because we heard things like sink-holing addresses, hackers create domain names in the first 48 hours to launch attacks. So there's all kinds of tactical things that are being involved with, lets say, domain names for instance. >> Cricket: Yeah, yeah. >> That's part of the critical infrastructure. So, the question is how, in DDoS attacks, denial-of-service attacks, are coming in in the tens of thousands per day? >> Yeah, well that issue that you talked about, in particular the idea that the bad guys register brand new domain names, domain names that initially have no negative reputation associated with them, my friend Paul Vixie and his new company Farsight Security have been working on that. They have what is called a -- >> John: What's the name of the company again? >> Farsight Security. >> Farsight? >> And they have what's called a Passive DNS Database. Which is a database basically of DNS telemetry that is accumulated from big recursive DNS servers around the internet. So they know when a brand new domain name pops up, somewhere on the internet because someone has to resolve it. And they pump all of these brand new domain names into what's called a response policy zone feed. And you can get for example different thresh holds. I want to see the brand new domain names created over the last 30 minutes or seen over the last 30 minutes. And if you block resolution of those brand new domain names, it turns out you block a tremendous amount of really malicious activity. And then after say, 30 minutes if it's a legitimate domain name it falls off the list and you can resolve it. >> So this says your doing DNS signaling as a service for new name registrations because the demand is for software APIs to say "Hey, I want to create some policy around some techniques to sink-hole domain address hacks. Something like that? >> Yeah, basically this goes hand in hand with this new system response policy zone which allows you to implement DNS policy. Something that we've really never before done with DNS servers, which that's actually not quite true. There have been proprietary solutions for it. But response policy zones are an open solution that give you the ability to say "Hey I do want to allow resolution of this domain name, but not this other domain name". And then you can say "Alright, all these brand new domain names, for the first 30 minutes of their existence I don't want-- >> It's like a background check for domain names. >> Yeah, or like a wait list. Okay, you don't get resolved for the first 30 minutes, that gives the sort of traditional, reputational, analyzers, Spamhaus and Serval and people like that a chance to look you over and say "yeah, it's malicious or it's not malicious". >> So serves to be run my Paul Vixie who is the contributor to the DNS protocol-- >> Right, enormous contributor. >> So we should keep an eye on that. Check it out, Paul Vixie. Alright, so DNS's critical infrastructure that we've been talking about, that you and I, love to riff about DNS and the role What's it enabled? Obviously it's ASCII, but I got to ask you, all these Unicode stuff about the emoji and the open source, really it highlight's the Unicode phenomenon. So this is a hacker potential haven. DNS and Unicode distinction. >> It's really interesting from a DNS standpoint, because we went to a lot of effort within the IETF, the Internet Engineering Task Force, some years ago, back when I was more involved in the IETF, some people spent a tremendous amount of effort coming up with a way to use allow people to use Unicode within domain name. So that you could type something into your browser that was in traditional or simplified Chinese or that was in Arabic or was in Hebrew or any number of other scripts. And you could type that in and it would be translated into something that we call puny code, in the DNS community, which is an ASCII equivalent to that. The issue with that though, becomes that there are, we would say glifs, most people I guess would say characters, but there are characters in Unicode that look just like, say Latin alphabet characters. So there's a lowercase 'a' for example, in cyrillic, it's not a lowercase 'a' in the Latin alphabet, it's a cyrillic 'a', but it looks just like an 'a'. So it's possible for people to register names, domain names, that in there Unicode representation, look like for example, PayPal, which of course has two a's in it, and those two a's could be cyrillic a's. >> Not truly the ASCII representation of PayPal which we resolve through the DNS. >> Exactly, so imagine how subtle an attack that would be if you were able to send out a bunch of email, including the links that said www.-- >> Someone's hacked your PayPal account, click here. >> Yeah, exactly. And if you eyeballed it you'd think Well, sure that's www.PayPal.com, but little do you know it's actually not the -- >> So Jim Ruth talked about applying some unconventional methods, because the bad guys don't subscribe to the conventional methods . They don't buy into it. He said that they change up their standards, is what I wrote down, but that was maybe their sort of security footprint. 1.5 times a day, how does that apply to your DNS world, how do you even do that? >> Well, we're beginning to do more and more with analytics DNS. The passive DNS database that I talked about. More and more big security players, including Infoblox are collecting passive DNS data. And you can run interesting analytics on that passive DNS data. And you can, in some cases, automatically detect suspicious or malicious behavior. For example you can say "Hey, look this named IP address mapping is changing really, really rapidly" and that might be an indication of let's say, fast flux. Or you can say "These domain names have really high entropy. We did an engram analysis of the labels of these". The consequence of that we believe that this resolution of these domain names, is actually being used to tunnel data out of an organization or into an organization. So there's some things you can do with these analytical algorithms in order to suss out suspicious and malicious. >> And you're doing that in as close to real time as possible, presumably right? >> Cricket: That's right. >> And so, now everybody's talking about Edge, Edge computing, Edge analytics. How will the Edge effect your ability to keep up? >> Well, the challenge I think with doing analytics on passive DNS is that you have to be able to collect that data from a lot of places. The more places that you have, the more sensors that you have collecting passive DNS data the better. You need to be able to get it out from the Edge. From those local recursive DNS servers that are actually responding to the query's that come from say your smart phone or your laptop or what have you. If you don't have that kind of data, you've only got, say, big ISPs, then you may not detect the compromise of somebody's corporate network, for example. >> I was looking at some stats when I asked the IOT questions, 'cause you're kind of teasing out kind of the edge of the network and with mobile and wearables as the general was pointing out, is that it's going to create more service area, but I just also saw a story, I don't know if it's from Google or wherever, but 80% plus roughly, websites are going to have SSL HTBS that they're resolving through. And there's reports out here that a lot of the anti virus provisions have been failing because of compromised certificates. And to quote someone from Research Park, and we want to get your reaction to this "Our results show", this is from University of Maryland College Park. "Our results show that compromised certificates pose a bigger threat than we previously believed, and is not restricted to advanced threats and digitally signed malware was common in the wild." Well before Stuxnet. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And so breaches have been caused by compromising certificates of actual authority. So this brings up the whole SSL was supposed to be solving this, that's just one problem. Now you've got the certificates, well before Stuxnet. So Stuxnet really was kind of going on before Stuxnet. Now you've got the edge of the network. Who has the DNS control for these devices? Is it kind of like failing? Is it crumbling? How do we get that trust back? >> That's a good question. One of the issues that we've had is that at various points, CAs, Certificate Authorities, have been conned into issuing certificates for websites that they shouldn't have. For example, "Hey, generate a cert for me". >> John: The Chinese do it all the time. >> Exactly. I run www. Bank of America .com. They give it to the wrong guy. He installs it. We have I think, something like 1,500 top level certification authorities. Something crazy like that. Dan Komenski had a number in one of his blog posts and it was absolutely ridiculous. The number of different CA's that we trust that are built into the most common browsers, like Chrome and Firefox and things like that. We're actually trying to address some of those issues with DNS, so there are two new resource records being introduced to DNS. One is TLSA. >> John: TLSA? >> Yeah, TLSA. And the other one is called CAA I think, which always makes me think of a California Automotive Association. (laughter) But TLSA is basically a way of publishing data in your own zone that says My cert looks like this. You can say "This is my cert." You can just completely go around the CA. And you can say "This is my cert" and then your DNS sec sign your zone and you're done. Or you can do something short of that and you can say "My cert should look like this "and it should have this CA. "This is my CA. "Don't trust any other one" >> So it's metadata about the cert or the cert itself. >> Exactly, so that way if somebody manages to go get a cert for your website, but they get that cert from some untrustworthy CA. I don't know who that would be. >> John: Or a comprimised-- >> Right, or a compromised CA. No body would trust it. No body who actually looks up the TSLA record because they'll go "Oh, Okay. I can see that Infoblox's cert that their CA is Symantech. And this is not a Symantech signed cert. So I'm not going to believe it". And at the same time this CAA record is designed to be consumed by the CA's themselves, and it's a way of saying, say Infoblox can say "We are a customer of Symantech or whoever" And when somebody goes to the cert and says "Hey, I want to generate a certificate for www.Infoblox.com, they'll look it up and say "Oh, they're a Symantech customer, I'm not going to do that for you". >> So it creates trust. So how does this impact the edge of the network, because the question really is, the question that's on everyone's mind is, does the internet of things create more trust or does it create more vulnerabilities? Everyone knows it's a surface area, but still there are technical solutions when you're talking about, how does this play out in your mind? How does Infoblox see it? How do you see it? What's Paul Vixie working on, does that tie into it? Because out in the hinterlands and the edge of the network and the wild, is it like a DNS server on the device. It could be a sensor? How are they resolving things? What is the protocol for these? >> At least this gives you a greater assurance if you're using TLS to encrypt communication between a client and a web server or some other resource out there on the internet. It at least gives you a better assurance that you really aren't being spoofed. That you're going to the right place. That your communications are secure. So that's all really good. IOT, I think of as slightly orthogonal to that. IOT is still a real challenge. I mean there is so many IOT devices out there. I look at IOT though, and I'll talk about this tomorrow, and actually I've got a live event on Thursday, where I'll talk about it some more with my friend Matt Larson. >> John: Is that going to be here in New York? >> Actually we're going to be broadcasting out of Washington, D.C. >> John: Were you streaming that? >> It is streamed. In fact it's only streamed. >> John: Put a plug in for the URL. >> If you go to www.Infoblox.com I think it's one of the first things that will slide into your view. >> So you're putting it onto your company site. Infoblox.com. You and Matt Larson. Okay, cool. Thursday event, check it out. >> It is somewhat embarrassingly called Cricket Liu Live. >> You're a celebrity. >> It's also Matt Larson Live. >> Both of you guys know what you're talking about. It's great. >> So there's a discussion among certain boards of directors that says, "Look, we're losing the battle, "we're losing the war. "We got to shift more on response "and at least cover our butts. "And get some of our response mechanisms in place." What do you advise those boards? What's the right balance between sort of defense perimeter, core infrastructure, and response. >> Well, I would certainly advocate as a DNS guy, that people instrument their DNS infrastructure to the extent that they can to be able to detect evidence of compromise. And that's a relatively straight forward thing to do. And most organizations haven't gone through the trouble to plumb their DNS infrastructure into their, for example, their sim infrastructure, so they can get query log information, they can use RPZs to flag when a client looks up the domain name of a known command and control server, which is a clear indication of compromise. Those sorts of things. I think that's really important. It's a pretty easy win. I do think at this point that we have to resign ourselves to the idea that we have devices on our network that are infected. That game is lost. There's no more crunchy outer shell security. It just doesn't really work. So you have to have defensive depth as they say. >> Now servs has been around for such a long time. It's been one of those threats that just keeps coming. It's like waves and waves. So it looks like there's some things happening, that's cool. So I got to ask you, CyberConnect is the first real inaugural event that brings industry and some obviously government and tech geeks together, but it's not black hat or ETF. It's not those geeky forums. It's really a business community coming together. What's your take of this event? What's your observations? What are you seeing here? >> Well, I'm really excited to actually get the opportunity to talk to people who are chiefly security people. I think that's kind of a novelty for me, because most of the time I think I speak to people who are chiefly networking people and in particular that little niche of networking people who are interested in DNS. Although truth be told, maybe they're not really interested in DNS, maybe they just put up with me. >> Well the community is really strong. The DNS community has always been organically grown and reliable. >> But I love the idea of talking about DNS security to a security audience. And hopefully some of the folks we get to talk to here, will come away from it thinking oh, wow, so I didn't even realize that my DNS infrastructure could actually be a security tool for me. Could actually be helpful in any way in detecting compromise. >> And what about this final question, 'cause I know we got a time check here. But, operational impact of some of these DNS changes that are coming down from Paul Vixie, you and Matt Larson doing some things together, What's the impact of the customer and they say "okay, DNS will play a role in how I role out my architecture. New solutions for cyber, IOT is right around the corner. What's the impact to them in your mind operationally. >> There certainly is some operational impact, for example if you want to subscribe to RPZ feeds, you've got to become a customer of somebody who provides a commercial RPZ feed or somebody who provides a free RPZ feed. You have to plumb that into your DNS infrastructure. You have to make sure that it continues transferring. You have to plumb that into your sim, so when you get a hit against an RPZ, you're notified about it, your security folks. All that stuff is routine day to day stuff. Nothing out of the ordinary. >> No radical plumbing changes. >> Right, but I think one of the big challenges in so many of the organizations that I go to visit, the security organization and the networking organization are in different silos and they don't necessarily communicate a lot. So maybe the more difficult operational challenge is just making sure that you have that communication. And that the security guys know the DNS guys, the networking guys, and vice versa. And they cooperate to work on problems. >> This seems to be the big collaboration thing that's happening here. That it's more of a community model coming together, rather than security. Cricket Liu here, DNS, Chief Architect of DNS and senior fellow of Infoblox. The legend in the DNS community. Paul Vixie amongst the peers. Really that community holding down the fort I'll see a lot of exploits that they have to watch out for. Thanks for your commentary here at the CyberConnect 2017 inaugural event. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE covering PentahoWorld 2017. Brought to you by Hitachi Vantara. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of PentahoWorld, brought to you of course by Hitachi Vantara. My name is Rebecca Knight, and I'm here with Dave Vellante, my co-host. We are joined by Nathan Hart, he is the Development Manager at NextGear Capital. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Nathan. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's start by telling our viewers a little bit about what NextGear Capital is, and what you do there. >> Sure, NextGear Capital is a, we do auto financing for auto dealerships, so if a dealer goes to an auction and wants to buy some inventory, we're going to be the ones who actually finance that and purchase it for them, and then they pay us back. >> Great, and your role as a development manager. >> Yep, I am over our integrations team, so we are responsible for basically getting data in and out of the company, a lot of that is getting data to and from our sister companies, all under Cox Automotive. >> And the data we're talking about is? >> Uh, it's a whole lot of things, obviously it's a lot of financial data, as we are a finance company, but a lot of things like inventory, unit statuses, where a car is located, we have credit scores, and that sort of work as well, so all kinds of data are coming in and out and then into our systems. >> So, are the cars instrumented to the point where you can kind of track where they are in an automated way, or is it? >> Yes, we do have some GPS units, not on all that inventory, just because we have quite a few open floor plans, about 500,000 I believe. But yes, we do have some select units that are GPS'd that we can track that way, or we have inspectors that go to lots. >> Okay so as a developer you know this story well, back in the day if you had a big data problem, you'd buy a Unix box and you'd stuff all the data in there and then you'd buy a bunch of Oracle licenses, and if you had any money left over, you could maybe do something, maybe buy a little storage, or conduct business. Okay that changed, quite dramatically. I wonder, if you could tell us your version of that story and how it's affected your business. >> Sure, so, uh. (laughter) >> Dave: Is it a fair representation? >> Not, not... >> Dave: Is the old world, was it a big data warehouse world? >> Yeah, so. >> Where it's sort of expensive to get stuff in and get stuff out and has that changed? Or is that sort of? >> Yeah, it has changed greatly, we're not quite that bad, but we do currently have an older monolithic database system that we are trying to get away from. >> Dave: It's hard. >> Yeah, exactly. And so a lot of our processes right now, go in and come out of this so obviously, if anything in that breaks, it hurts everywhere. >> Dave: Right. >> So yes. >> Dave: Sort of a chain reaction. >> Exactly. >> Okay, but so how have you, talk about the journey of bringing in Pentaho and how that has affected you. >> Sure, Pentaho has been great for us, just in terms of being able to be really flexible with our data. Like I said, we're trying to get away from this monolithic service, so we have, in Pentaho, we can easily branch off and say, go to the monolithic database, but also talk to another service that is going to replace it. And then it's just one click of a button, and now this is off, this is on, or we can do both and have some replication going, just so we have that flexibility, and that kind of adaptability around those changes. >> So why Pentaho, I mean, a lot of tools out there, there's open source, you could roll your own, you could do everything in the cloud, why Pentaho? >> We liked Pentaho because of the, I guess the freedom and independence it kind of offers, in the sense that it allows us to have a large set of steps and tools that are already prebuilt, that we can just use right out of the box, and, it's just a massive library, far greater than most of the competition that we looked at. And then it also is just built on this great Java platform that we can, if we need to, write a custom Java class, pop it in, and then that can do what we need to, if we don't have something out of the box. >> Dave: So it's integrated, >> Yep >> but it's customizable. >> Nathan: Exactly. >> If you need it to be. >> Nathan: Yep. >> Okay, and one of the things that customers like you tell us about Pentaho is that they like the sort of end-to-end integration. >> Nathan: Yep. >> We were talking off camera, you had mentioned that you've got an initiative to move toward the cloud. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, so right now, just Cox, as a whole, is kind of investigating the cloud. I definitely don't want to speak out of turn, or say we're definitely going there, but that is the current initiatives are to start experimenting with how we can leverage this more. I know one of the, kind of the first steps that we're taking towards that is we have large archives, we keep all of the files we've ever received or sent out, and we don't access them much, we don't need them much, but we want to keep them, just so we have this history, and we can always look back if we need to. So using the cloud for something like that, where's it's just like a deep storage, where we can just upload it and forget it, and if we ever need it, it's there and easily accessible, and this way we don't have to pay for as much storage on print. >> Very workload specific, cheap storage. >> Nathan: Yep. >> Probably a lot of test and dev. >> Nathan: Exactly. >> So going back to the Pentaho, and why Pentaho, and you mentioned the freedom and the flexibility that it provides, can you talk about some of the best practices that you've discovered that could help some other Hitachi Vantara customers? >> Absolutely, the biggest change, learning curve that we went through, my first introduction was Pentaho when I started at NextGear, and it was a real huge learning curve for the whole team. We all started within about a month of each other, and there were only three of us to start. So, it was a real learning curve of, okay, here's how we do this, here's how we do this. So, once we kind of got the workflow going and understanding what we were trying to do, the next step was figuring out okay we can make this very modular, we can build a sub job that does a very specific task, and we can use it everywhere. And we just did that again and again and again, so now we have a library of about 118 different utilities that we can just plug and drop anywhere and they just do what they need to do, we don't need to re-test them, we don't need to think about them ever. And of course, if we update one of those, it updates every single job that it touches. As soon as we kind of unlocked that and figured we didn't have to make a custom solution for every single job, that we could use a lot of reuseability. It really sped up our development, and how we do things. >> Could you talk about data sources, have they or how have they evolved over the last decade? >> Sure, I can't speak for the whole decade, I haven't actually been in the industry that long, but a lot of what we came into and inherited when I came in, were flat files, just everything is CSV, TXT, either in or out, and we still do a lot of that, that's still kind of our bread and butter, just by the nature of our current role, but as it's changing we are interacting more and more with APIs. We're shifting away from this monolithic database into micro services so we're having to interact with those a lot more and figure out how we can get that real time communication and get the data where it needs to go so it's all in its happy place. >> One of the things that Brian Householder, the CEO, got up on the main stage and talked about how, for companies, the two most important assets are the people and the data. I want to talk to you about the people aspect. >> Nathan: Okay. >> We're hearing so much about the shortage, the tech shortage of data scientists, and other kinds of talent in this industry. How hard is it for you to recruit? Your company, as you said, is based in Carmel, Indiana is that right? >> Nathan: Yep. >> What are you finding out there? >> The greater Indianapolis area, like many other places, is very starved for tech talent. It's very, very easy as a developer to throw a stone and get an interview. It's definitely a challenge. We actually currently have two openings on my team. Just, do less with more and do what we can. So, it's definitely a challenge, but I think that there's a lot of really great young talent coming out of colleges right now that are coming in, they've grown up with this right? They're a lot further along than necessarily I was when I came out of school and some of our other developers. So they can step in and already understand a lot of these complex architectures that we're dealing with and can just hit the ground running. >> So at least 10 times a week, I get somebody hitting me on LinkedIn about hey do you need development resources? (Nathan laughing) As a developer, it must happen to you 100 times a week, but there's obviously challenges of off-shoring and managing that remotely. I'm sure you've thought about it. What are your thoughts on off-shoring? You want someone there in a bee hive effect? Maybe talk about that a little bit. So, at NextGear we've been fairly rigid about butts in the seats, in the office, real collaborative environment, where you're at the morning stand up, you're there in the meetings, and it's a very present environment. And we are being a little bit more adaptable with that, just as time changes and other companies, obviously do offer more remote from home or what have you, so that is shifting a little bit, as far as necessarily off-shoring, that's way above my pay grade to even make that call, I have worked in previous environments where that was a large part of it. In a previously life we had a US based team and then we had a Malaysia based team, and I thought it was a really great experience cause we basically all had our own counterparts over there, so at the end of your day, you just email your notes, here's what I did today, here's where I left off, and they pick it up and do the same, then we had about a weekly meeting. So I think it definitely can work, I'm all for the global tech community all coming up together, when appropriate and when it works. >> But you've got to have the right infrastructure and processes in place, >> Nathan: Absolutely. >> Or it's just, it sucks all your productivity out. >> Nathan: Absolutely, if you spend half your day trying to figure out what the other person did, then you've lost your day. >> Yeah, right. And you follow the sun, yes and no right, you've got to wait for the sun sometimes. Pentaho, back to Pentaho, what are the things that, as a customer, you want them to do. What's on their to-do list, you know, when you're talking to Donna Prlich and her team, what are you pushing them for? >> So, the biggest things kind of on our wish list and that we're seeing is interacting more natively with those microservices like I mentioned and I was really glad that that came up in the keynote as something that they're focusing on and it's something that is going to come up in 8.0, at least the kind of stepping stones to go in that direction. So, that's really exciting stuff for us, just it answers a lot of questions we're currently having of how are we going to interact with those, and the answer can still be Pentaho moving forward. >> I was struck in the keynote, when Brian was asking hands up please, how many people are doing business with Hitachi outside of Pentaho, and just a smattering, right, I presume your hand was down. >> Nathan: My hand was down. >> And then, had you heard of Hitachi Vantara? >> I read the press release when they first announced Vantara, but that's about the extent of it. Obviously I knew about Hitachi from when they purchased Pentaho. We actually were having a week long, kind of a tech support get together that week that it happened, so I think on the Tuesday or something, our rep was like I now work for Hitachi. It was a fun thing, but yeah I'm not terribly familiar with Hitachi's products or, obviously I know where they're going with the Vantara concept, but. >> As a developer in a very focused area, >> Yep. >> Cox Automotive, obviously has some IOT initiatives, I'm sure, >> Absolutely. >> And some process automation, but I presume you haven't really dug into that yet, but when you think about the messaging that you heard this morning. What does it mean to you? Do you say, okay, nice, but I've got other problems? Or do you see the potential to leverage some of the technologies down the road? I definitely see the potential to start, at least exploring that direction, and figuring out what can we get out of this, right. It makes a lot more sense to play in a singular ecosystem and have all those tools at our hand just in one bucket instead of trying to figure out how does this play nice with this, how does this play nice over here, if we just can have a singular ecosystem that does it all together, that definitely makes our jobs a lot easier. >> How about the event, is this your first PentahoWorld? >> Yep, this is my first PentahoWorld. >> So it's early, but why do you come to events like this, and what do you hope to take away? >> Sure, I came to this event, cause I was specifically invited to. That's really it. It was nothing more than that, but I definitely come to kind of, see what's next and learn about the new technologies, and get that chance to visit some of the booths and some of the breakout sessions for maybe things that I don't get to do in my day to day life. We're very heads down in PDI so I don't get to spend too much time learning about the analytics and playing with those tools. So it's a lot of fun to come here and kind of see what's out there and be like, oh could we leverage this, or how could I adapt, or what are some of the other professionals doing that maybe I can bring back and improve our processes. >> And it's early days, but what are your thoughts on 8.0? >> I liked what I saw, and then I stopped by the booth and got another demo and I can definitely already see a couple of use cases where we can improve existing jobs with some of the new streaming features that they have in play, so I'm excited for that to come out and for us to start working with that. >> So that, the integration of streaming, Kafka, and the like was appealing to you? >> Yep, absolutely, and that'll be something that we can probably use right out of the gate, so excited for that. >> Well great, Nathan thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Nathan: Yeah, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, we will have more from PentahoWorld just after this. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Los Angeles it's The Cube covering Open Source Summit North America 2017. Brought to you by the Linux Foundation and Red Hat. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in L.A. for the Linux Foundation Open Source Summit North America. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Stu Miniman, my co-host. Our next guest Jim Zemlin, Executive Director of the Linux Foundation, runs the whole show. Welcome back to The Cube, great to see you. >> Thank you, thank you. Runs the whole show is a little bit of an overstatement. >> Well, certainly great keynote up there, I mean, a lot of things coming together. Just some structural things. Let's get the update on what's going on structurally with the Linux Foundation, one, and then two, the keynote today, this morning, really kind of laid out the state of the union, if you will, and all cylinders are pumping, no doubt, on open source. So give the quick update on kind of what's going on with the Linux Foundation and then let's get in some of the trends inside the open source movement. >> Yeah, I mean, our organization has grown quite a bit in the last few years as evident by all the people who are here at this event. But our focus is really on the projects that are important to, you know, the stability, security, and growth of the global internet and of large-scale systems. And when you look at Linux or Node.js or things like our networking projects which are powering the production networks for 3 1/2 billion people, what we're really focused on is making sure those projects are healthy, making sure that they have great developers who write incredible code, that it's used to power things like China Mobile's network or AT&T's production network. And then, those firms are employing the developers who then write more code, you get more solutions, products, services based on Linux or whatever. More reinvestment, lather, rinse, repeat. It's that cycle we're trying to promote. >> So before we get into some of the stats, structurally, I know this show, we've Cube comments out there, clarify the structure. How the shows are rolling out, how are you guys putting together the big-tent events, and how developers can get involved in the specific events across, but now there's a ton of projects. But just at a high level, what's the structure? >> Yeah, so, you know, and I'll throw out a few stats. We have about 25,000 developers that attend all of our events which are all over the world. But we have our Open Source Summit which is really sort of a summit to come together and talk about these big-picture issues around sustainability to allow for cross-project collaboration. We have project-specific events so the CloudNativeCon, KubeCon event which is coming up in Austin which is going to be blow-out, you know, I'm expecting thousands of people. I think probably three, 4,000 people. >> And even more platinum sponsors than I've ever seen on any project before so huge demand. >> It's crazy, yeah. Yeah, you know, get it while it's good, right? All these things kind of go up and down but they're on the upswing. So we have project-specific and then in the networking sector, we have have the Open Networking Summit which is sort of similar to the Open Source Summit but much more focused on networking technology, SDN, and NFD, and that is going to be in L.A. next year and we'll have a U.S. event and then a European and an Asian. >> And this show's purpose is what? How would you position the Open Source Summit? >> The Open Source Summit is where all the projects come together and do cross-pollination. I mean, the idea here is that if you're just always in your silo, you can't actually appreciate what someone else is doing that may improve your project. >> And Jim, there's a couple of events that came together to make this 'cause it was LinuxCon, ContainerCon, and MesosCon is also co-resident so. >> Exactly, so we just decided after a while that all these events could come together and again, this cross-pollination of ideas. >> And they kind of did, they're just different hotels in Seattle last time. >> Yeah, exactly. That's enough, it's just going to be Open Source-- >> It's a big-tent event. >> It's a big-tent event and it really reflects how open source has gone mainstream in a way that I don't think any of us would've predicted even maybe five, six years ago. >> It's pretty massive. Just to quote some stats. 23 million plus open source developers, what you shared onstage there, want to get to your keynote. 41 billion lines of code. 1,000 plus new projects a day. 10,000 new versions pushed per day. 64 million repos on GitHub. Just amazing growth so this kind of points to obviously the rising tide is floating all boats. I made a comment, I tweeted, in the spirit of the joke of standing on the shoulders of giants before you, it's like, what shoulders are we standing on now? Because there's so many projects. Is there going to be like a legacy like the dual-star, badge values, been around for a while? You mentioned old news and you bring up Linus onstage. I mean, some projects are older, more mature, Bruce Wayne, Tier One, meat and potatoes, some got a little bit more flair and fashion to it, if you will. So you got new dynamics going on. Share your thoughts on this. >> Yeah, I mean, it's like the shoulders you're standing on are almost like stage-diving, right? Where it's just lots of people's shoulders that you're really bouncing around on. But the idea here, and what we really focus on, is what are the most important projects in the world and how do we make sure we sustain those projects. So those are the ones that you're going to generally see focused on here. Like, you know, if you've got two people contributing to one small repo for a very small project, that's probably not something that's going to be super high-profile here. But what we're trying to do is bring together sort of the big projects and also the key contributors. You know, if you look at the distribution of contribution, and this is the thing, I think, if you're a developer listening to something like this, someone who gives just one commit to a project to solve some kind of problem they might have, that's the vast majority of people. Somebody who does maybe five to 10 commits, you know, a little bit less, quite a bit less. The vast majority of code, people who give 25 or more commits to a project, small group of folks, they're here. >> I know Stu wants to ask a question, one final question on the growth 'cause this kind of reminds me of sports as we're like the ESPN of tech here for the community. If you look at the growth, you put a slide in there by SourceClear that show the projection, by 2026, at 400 million libraries, putting it today around, I think, 64 million. This is going to be like an owners meeting. It's kind of like they get together, this event because you are going to have so many projects 'cause this is kind of the vibe you got going on in here. The scale is massive, this is going to be almost like the owners meeting, the teams. Expansion's going to be coming, you have to deal with that, that's challenging. >> We're ready to grow, I mean, we've been working on systems and staffing and processes to help scale with that. You know, we take seriously that that code runs modern society. It keeps us private or doesn't as we saw with the Equifax hack which was a CVE in an open source project and we want to be ready to up our game. Let's say we could have secure coding class at this very event for the greatest developers who are working on our most important projects in the world. Would that make all of our lives better? Yes, absolutely. >> Yes, absolutely would. Yeah and you want to enable that, that's where you're going. >> That's exactly where we're going. >> Jim, the quote that jumped out at me that you gave in the keynote was, projects with sustainable ecosystems are the ones that matter. How do we balance all this? I heard in, you know, Linus's Q and A it was, look, individual's important but companies are important. You put up a slide and said, there's thousands and thousands of projects, sometimes we're going to get some really awesome stuff from three people contributing code versus the massive ecosystem with all the platinum providers so, it's always in technology, it's an and and it's very nuanced but how do we get our arms around this? How do we know where to focus? >> It's worth going back in time to understand where the future is going and study innovation theory, you know, Eric von Hippel at MIT, or Karim Lakhani at Harvard Business School. And you look at the framework, which is, you have corporations who underwrite a lot of development by hiring developers who have an equal importance in this and then users of that software. So those are your main constituents and sometimes they're the same people, right, or the same things. They're not mutually exclusive, they're actually self-reinforcing if you get the formula right and you make sure that the project is in good shape so that it gives confidence to industry or society that, hey, we can count on that. I think Heartbleed and OpenSSL maybe rattled people's cages like, hey, can we count on, not just this project, but can we count on open source period? So we spent a ton of time working with that project to provide them millions in resources, audited their code, expanded their testing, and we learned a hell of a lot about how to support these communities in the most important developer projects in the world and create that positive feedback loop, that's what we're doing. >> Yeah and Jim, it's, as an analyst, one of the things we're always asked is, right, how do I choose the right technology? Whereas companies now are contributing here so it's not just I'm putting dollars in, I'm putting manpower into this. And the foundations sometimes get a lot of lung from people, saying it's like, oh well, people throw money and what do they get out of it? I liked what I heard today, you talking about this cycle, and maybe talk to our audience a little bit about CHAOSS which I though was a nice, tongue-in-cheek acronym to say how you're actually going to bring order to the chaos that we see in the open source world. >> I'm going to come to this but I want to answer one quick question about the roles of organizations like ours. We are the roadies, the supporting cast, and the plumbers and the janitors of the system that keep things going but the real rock stars are the developers. If you think about it, Linux is worth $10 billion. An average kernel developer makes probably, let's say $150,000 a year, by the way, they make more than your average developer because they're in such high demand. The role of organizations like ours is such a tiny fraction financially of what is really fueling this model but it's an important one. What we ask ourselves all the time is, why do you need us? Who cares, right? Like, throw your code up on GitHub, you don't need the Linux Foundation, right? Why do we even exist? And the answer is to do things like this Community Health Analytics for Open Source Software, to provide the infrastructure for sustainability. Sustainability is something that we need to measure, right? How many developers are contributing to a project? Are they from a diverse community so that if one group goes away, there'll be somebody else there to do that work? How much test coverage do they have? Are there code quality metrics that we could look at? Do they have security practices like a responsible disclosure policy, a security mailing list? Have they recently fuzzed their code? Are they a community that's welcoming for people of different backgrounds? And so on and so forth. If you don't have a healthy project, you kind of don't want to bet your company on this project by using it in a production system, right? But here's the interesting thing, how many people are using that code in production also is a metric for health, right? Because that's where the reinvestment is going to come in the form of developers who are working on it. >> There's a difference between being proactive and jamming something down someone's throat. So you're taking an approach, if I get this right, to be kind of the same open source ethos, use some KPIs, key performance indicators, to give them a sense of success. But it's not an edict saying-- >> No, no, it can't be an edict. What you want to do is preserve the organic innovation that goes on in open source and get projects to go, and you'll notice that curve of sort of value to volume goes up and to the left, we could've written it to the right but, you know, the whole copyleft thing we love. How do you get that organic innovation to kind of go from this small project up and to the left? How do you capture that? Well, give tools to everyone so that they can better self-analyze. >> John: You get exponential growth with that. >> Exactly. >> If you try to control, it's linear but you bring it to the community, you get exponential growth. >> Exactly, so we studied a ton of innovation theory, we looked at how we could build frameworks to facilitate this kind of form of mass innovation and so that's where tools like CHAOSS which is being worked on by Red Hat and a lot of companies who want to figure out which project should I work on? How can I spot that one earlier? And we're excited about it. >> You know, I always joke, being the old guy that I am, in the late '80s, early '90s, '80s particularly when I was coding. We did everything, we wrote all the code. You bring up an interesting stat and you put the finger on, at least for me, and I think this is where a lot of us old timers who had to do all the libraries from scratch. You mentioned the code sandwich, the code club, the club sandwich, how code's being made and the interesting thing, as you point out, 90% of most great software is done with open source where the 10% innovation is done with original code or original content, if you will, and that that is the norm. So open source is now called the code sandwich because you can put your differentiation and that's a good use of time. >> That's the meat, right. >> That's the meat, it's not a wish sandwich to use the old Blues Brothers example but I mean look, the thing is is that that's dynamic is real, the code is leverageable, and that this is the dynamic so where'd the number come from? Because that seems really high to me but I love it. >> So that number came from a combination of Sonatype, SourceClear, and other organizations that monitor commercial reuse of software on a global basis. So these are the folks who are actually working with commercial industry to look at the makeup of their code, basically. You don't have to go far to look at a Node.js developer, they're using Node.js, they're taking packages out of NPM, and they're writing, they're cut and paste masters, but they write this critical component that's the meat of their application, it's what they do. >> But that's the innovation fabric that's happening. >> It also is a requirement because let's look at a modern, luxury vehicle today. It has 100 million lines of code in it. That's more than an F-35, like, fighter jet. That's an unbelievable amount of code. Toyota, who we work with, and you know, our AGL, our Automotive Grade Linux, is in their Camry. They couldn't write that code on their own. It's just too much. And this is how we get to autonomous vehicle control and things like that. >> I know you got a tight schedule, I want to make one more comment, get your reaction to it. I made a tweet and said, it's open bar in open source and with a reference to all the goodness being donated by companies, Google TensorFlow, there's a lot of other things coming in, these libraries. A lot of people are bringing really, really big IP to the table, IoT, and I kind of made an open remark 'cause a lot of the young kids, they think this is normal, like, well it's going to get better. Keep on drinking that open source. Is this normal? Is it going to be more like this in the future? Because you have essentially real intellectual property, like say from Google, being given to the open source communities as a gift for innovation. I mean, that is just unprecedented greatness. >> The reason for that is they're not doing it necessarily altruistically although I think you can take it that way, they're doing it in a way that betters themselves and others at the same time. I mean, it is a form of collective capitalism where they've realized, my value's over here, it is better for me to collaborate on underlying infrastructure software that my customers don't care about that's not critical to my system but I absolutely have to have and I'm going to focus on data or I'm going to focus on much higher-level innovation. And what that's doing is creating this hockey stick of innovation where, as we share more and more and more infrastructure software, and as that keeps moving up and up the stack, we all benefit. >> So in the theory of the management, bring up management theory, their theory, I'd love to get your thoughts on, is that they're betting on scale rather than trying to go for profits in the short-term, they'd much rather share intellectual property on the back-end value of scale and scale's the new competitive advantage. >> Exactly, take Kubernetes as an example. The fact that, today, and just even a couple years ago this wasn't known, we didn't quite know where this was going to be, but today you can take Node.js, build a container, you know, take an application, throw it into a container, and use Kubernetes to run it on Azure, Amazon, Google, or in a private cloud. That definition, the ability to do that, unlocks this massive developer productivity which creates more value which is more business opportunity for all these guys. You know, they're not doing it 'cause they're nice people, they're doing it 'cause they're unlocking market potential. >> And they're the real rock stars. Jim you're doing a great job. Congratulations on your success. You got a lot of growth in front of you, a lot of challenges and opportunities certainly with that and of course, the tech athletes out there doing the coding, they're the real rock stars, they're the real athletes. Of course, we get more on The Cube, thanks for your support with The Cube as well, appreciate that. >> Jim: Thank you, thanks for everything. >> Alright, this is live coverage from Open Source Summit North America in Los Angeles, California. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more live coverage after this short break.

>> Narrator: It's theCUBE, covering Sapphire Now 2017, brought to you by SAP Cloud Platform, and HANA Enterprise Cloud. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to our special coverage of SAP Sapphire Now. I'm John Furrier, here in theCUBE's studios of Palo Alto for our three days of wall to wall coverage, breaking down all the news with analysis. Our next guest here on theCUBE is Emily Mui, Senior Director of HANA Cloud Product Marketing at SAP, and Michael Hill, Senior Director of Product Marketing and SAP Cloud Platform. I had a chance to have a conversation around the big news around SAP Cloud Platform and what it means. I had a chance to ask Emily and Michael about the Sapphire impact around this new strategy, and the impact of multi-cloud. Here's the conversation with Michael and Emily. >> Three things to remember, three Cs, it's about helping accelerate cloud adoption, consumption, as well as-- >> [Michael And John] Choice. >> Choice, because of multi-cloud. >> So this is interesting. So the three Cs, I love that, very gimmicky marketing thing that I like. It gets to the point. Choice is huge. Multi-cloud is what everyone's talking about, in essence is what hybrid cloud's turning into. I mean, hybrid cloud has been the defacto norm now everyone's talking about, that is the preferred way most enterprises are using the cloud on premise and some public cloud, call it hybrid. But now, the mobile cloud's out here. There's Amazon Web Service, you've got Google, Azure, so there's a lot of, so the choice is critical, where to put what were clothes. >> And that's what we're hearing from our customers, and that's why we're moving in that direction. Not everyone wants to stick to one infrastructure as a service provider, they've got multiple clouds to manage, and we're enabling that. >> So choice I get. Cloud adoption is essentially creating those APIs to give them that accelerated approach. More cloud adoption means what? I've got be able to run stuff in the cloud faster, so that means getting their apps API, the API economy. And the consumption, is that on the interface side, or what's the consumption piece of it? >> Well, I'm going to let Michael have a swing at it now. >> It's consumption of innovation. So here we're talking about helping companies with digital transformation with things like Internet of Things, which we had in beta, which is now generally available, so customers can intelligently connect people, things, and business processes, all together now. In addition, we've added other great technologies like SAP CoPilot, which is allowing you to talk to your enterprise systems. So initially, that's what with SAPS for HANA. And you can say, "I'm interested in, "tell me all the open orders from the last quarter." And it will intelligently go get that information. >> It's like a voice recognition, all kinds of news things are coming out. >> Absolutely. >> As a user interface, or interface on cloud. >> They're for the enterprise. >> Or IT interface. >> On your phone or on your computer. >> So it's all being automated. We all know AI, that's just, "All our jobs are being automated." But this is specific. You're saying you're going to interface in with like CoPilot. >> Exactly. So you've got that business context. >> All right, let's step back and look at the Lego blocks. The cloud choice, multi-cloud. Let's get in, and then we'll talk about the adoption piece, how you guys are accelerating that through the marketplaces and APIs, and then the consumption through the new interfaces. So start with multi-cloud. What are the big points there? >> Well, the first is the agility that your platform as a service is now available on not just SAP data centers, but Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure, and Google Cloud Platform, being delivered. Amazon Web Services is now generally available, Azure is now beta, and there's a preview of Google Cloud Platform. And here you have one cockpit in SAP Cloud Platform to manage this multi-cloud infrastructure. >> So your strategy is to put your platform as a service on the clouds that customers want to run their workloads on? >> Exactly. So customers may already have specific workloads, or they may be working with partners that have workloads in those particular clouds. And now, SAP Cloud Platform can run in that same infrastructure. >> So the plan is to support the platform as a service from SAP on the clouds of choice for the customer. So they want to put stuff on Azure, if it's related to Office 365, or something going on with that, they could put it there. If they want to put some cloud-native on Amazon Web Service, they can. If they want to use Spanner and some TensorFlow, they could put that on Google. >> And to make this happen was really cool thing, is that we did this through our work in Cloud Foundry, and this allows you to bring your own development language, so BYOL. So if you have developers that are working in a particular language that's not supported natively by SAP previously, they can now be instantly productive on building applications on SAP Cloud Platform. >> So Cloud Foundry is the key to success on this? >> Yeah. Exactly. And that bring things like Node.js, and Python, as well as SAPs. >> All the cloud-native goodness that people want from a developer standpoint. >> Exactly. >> But yet, you guys allow it to run on Prim within the SAP constructs. >> Yep. >> All right, let's talk about cloud adoption, 'cause this is where the big rubber hits the road. Emily, we've been talking about the API economy for years. In fact, SAP was early on, and Web Services going through bankrupt. But there's some real value in here, because SAP runs software in some of the biggest businesses, so there's a lot of nuances to SAP. But when you go cloud and cloud-native, you've got to balance preexisting install base legacy with new apps that are being developed, how are you guys going to do that? >> So we announced the API Business Hub around a year ago at Sapphire in 2016, and it has grown tremendously in terms of content. So we had a lot of new APIs that keep getting added every month. And we're into the hundreds now. But it's not just the APIs, we've got integration workflows, there's all kinds of different content that's being added in there to make easier for our customers and partners to be able to leverage, and integrate, and connect, these different application with SAP back-end. So lot of exciting things happening on that end. >> So this allows them to go to the cloud business model. >> Emily: Exactly, right. >> Okay, now back to the consumption pieces, CoPilot. So is this where you guys are looking at where the dynamic nature of cloud can take advantage of the customers, because not only interfacing with, say, voice, for instance, there's others things, like, "Okay, I want to change processes. "I have the Workflow, or I'm doing something, "I want to just, "I'm not a developer, a Python developer, "I want to go in and make some rule changes, "or things of that nature." >> Yeah, so we have the Workflow service, that's also available. We've got a whole host of new capabilities that are coming out, and we'll call it digital edge, giving our customers a digital edge with these new innovative services. >> Edge as the user and also machines. >> Yes. >> That's where the IoT piece comes in. >> Exactly. >> So decision maker or customer says, "Hey, I've done all this stuff in the cloud." All of a sudden, someone says, "Well, we've got to bolt on some industrial data "from machines in our plant or factory." >> In fact, our IoT, the newest set of capabilities for IoT services is available at Sapphire. >> Okay, s\o what's the big takeaway from this? Let's just boil it down. Bottom line, this announcement impacts customers in what way? >> In many ways. We see many of customers wanting to become digital. And we've talked about how we think the benefits of cloud platform has to do with helping our customers become much more agile in how they do business, and SAP is in perfect position to do that. We've been working with companies, enterprises for years with their business processes, helping them optimize it. So that's the other bit, to be able to optimize all their business processes, and through the cloud. And then lastly, digital is the way to that they want to go. They know they want to be able to adopt all these new technologies. AI is so exciting. The CoPilot, if you've seen the demo, and you can see it at show floor here at Sapphire, it's amazing. Just the fact that you can talk to it, create an order, do some search, talk to it. I know that's how my kids, how they get through everyday life. They don't go look up anything anymore, they don't even Google, just talk. >> It's very dynamic. Certainly, the kids are an indicator, that you see if they want things, have the ability to move things around like the Lego blocks or composability. >> Yeah, so the speed, so that's why we love talking about accelerating consumption, and choice, and cloud adoption, because the speed of which everyone is adopting new technologies is just astronomical. >> Michael, comment on that point, because I always, this is our eight year covering Sapphire with theCUBE. It's our first year we're doing it from the studio as well. But Bill McDermott has always been on this with the whole dashboarding thing. If you look at SAP, the speed of business, how (mumbles) year that was. But each year, he never really changed, it's been the same arc, might've been a zigzag here and there, a little success factors here and there, all this kind of integration you guys have done. But it's been the same message, data's at the heart of the customers' outcomes. And the dashboards of old were data warehouses. But now he was showing a vision where, with the speed of data, the speed of software, you can get your business dashboard at your fingertips. That's what the customers are looking for. Your thoughts? >> It's not only being able to get that information at your fingertips, but actually being able to do something about it. So you can build those applications that can make an impact. So if you have, you're using our iOS SDK, and you've build that Apple interface, you have a nice interface that you can move an order, or you can do something about it while you're traveling. So you have this great dashboard, but now it's actionable. >> And this is the big difference, this is what makes his original vision, which certainly you can replicate with SAP's suite of data, and data and software, to a whole nother dimension of new apps. So app developers can come in and create these apps, and create new value propositions. >> Absolutely. >> All right, so how do they do that? What's the advice the customers, as they look at this new announcement, the impact of them, what does it mean to customer? Pick your cloud of choice? Use the APIs? >> Plenty of choices, and of course, we offer them a lot of guidance too, right? Because we've got a lot of great customers that are using the cloud platform today, some of which are presenting here at Sapphire. Karma Automotive, we love their story. They used to be Fisker Automotive, an all electronic vehicle. And it's amazing that the things that they want to do, and they're using the cloud platform in order to do that. But it's just another example of an innovative company that's looking to work with a company like SAP, and do everything in the cloud, building an application that will make it easier in terms of IoT, the sensors, and things like that, so they can track it to be able to take action on it. So it's very exciting. So lots of new things that are happening. >> I think there's two things that jump out at me, just to summarize the freedom that developers in the cloud-native world can do to create new apps, that also blend in on all of the existing value that SAP's already doing in the marketplace, that's always been, that was something that I observed last year, this is now a realization of that. But two, is now the customers now have a choice to put whatever they want in whatever cloud. And to me, what we've seen on theCUBE over the many interviews we've done, people who follow theCUBE know we've talked to a lot of people, is the workloads find their homes, some like Amazon, some like Azure, some like Google, and I think that is what customers are telling us, and you guys are now offering that choice. "Hey, put some workloads over there. "It doesn't matter where you want to put 'em, "we're just going to run 'em with--" >> And where we can help is really on the business service side. We have the right types of application services within the platform as a service offering, to enable them to create those types of apps to support their business. >> Applications, data, value for customers. >> And it's the integration of data into the application, because that's what's important. >> There'll be a new generation of application developers. We're standing up application like PowerPoint slides, really composing apps, that is the DevOps mainstream trend. Emily, thanks so much for sharing the great news. Michael, good to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Special Sapphire Now 2017 coverage. Breaking the news of the three Cs, multi-cloud, SAP's new announcement in Orlando. This is theCUBE coverage. More coverage after this short break.

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back, this is Day 3 of ServiceNow Knowledge17, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, where we go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and my co-host this week has been Jeff Frick. Not only this week, Jeff, but for the last five years, we've been doing ServiceNow Knowledge events, really getting a sense as to what this company is all about, the evolution of the company, the transformation from really early days of IT, help desk, service management, to now just permeating throughout the enterprise. One of the key things, Jeff, that is notable, and that we saw a couple years ago, I think it was three years ago, when they had the first CreatorCon. In fact, actually, in 2013, I think you did a little sidebar, you went out-- >> It was the Hackathon, we went with Allan Leinwand and checked in on the Hackathon. >> The point I want to make is that we work with these events, we come to these events. We see a lot of large company events, And whether it's Oracle or IBM or HPE, even, in the past. Even EMC with its code initative, they are drooling over developers. They can't get enough developer action, and it's like ServiceNow builds this platform, they create, they open it up with this low-code development kit, essentially, throw their glove in the field, and everybody comes to the game. >> Right, right. >> It's just amazing, and so today, Day 3, is about CreatorCon, and it was hosted by Pat Casey, who's the senior vice president of DevOps, and really the closest, I think, to the Fred Luddy DNA. I mean that's really Pat, you know, Fred Luddy's the founder of the company and sort of the icon of ServiceNow, not here, you know? We're entering a new era and it's really underscored culturally by CreatorCon and Pat Casey. You were in there today. What'd you think? >> Was it Fred termed the citizen developer? I can't remember, I'll have to go back and check the tape, because he definitely talked about low code, and I think he may have been the one that said citizen developer. And it's funny, even with CJ Desai, right, when he was thinking about coming over, what was the first thing he did? He downloaded the app, and wanted to create a little app. So everybody here is a developer, and I think, just looking back at some of the interviews yesterday, Donna from Cox Automotive, she built a prototype app. It was her, one business analyst, and an intern to start a whole new perspective, so I think, you know, they're really trying to make everybody a developer. It's a different way to think, and not just the business analyst, then you have to pass it off to development, but using, again, a simple workflow tool, it's still a workflow tool, to let everybody automate processes. And we were just in the CreatorCon. The other piece that really strikes me, and it strikes me every time I look at my phone now, you know, my phone knows I follow the Warriors, and so it just automatically gives me an update. So it's kind of this soft, a push of AI and machine learning into your day-to-day activity without this heavy overlay. And that's really how they do it effectively, and then that's kind of the basis of what they're doing here with integrating the machine learning into the applications to collect the data, build the models, try to take some of the mundane, mind-numbing work off of your plate and get people doing it, real decisions based on the machine giving you better data. >> It's an incredible dynamic to me, Jeff, because it's not like this company has a blank sheet of paper and says, "Okay, let's go after developers." They have this impassioned community of people, and they just keep rolling out new function, and then of course, ServiceNow has some really killer developers, internally, and so they make those people available to inspire and educate other developers, and so, as they say, this platform just permeates throughout the organization. I mean, it's really hard to do platforms. We've seen it so many times, you know, companies saying, "Okay, we're developing a platform," and the platform gets a little traction and it gets bought out, but this company, ServiceNow, really has a foothold here. So 4,500 people at CreatorCon this year, it's up from 2,000 last year, so another example of just super meteoric growth. Pat Casey, I loved, he put up the, you know, he showed a mainframe. It actually looked like a VAX to me, but anyway he put up a mainframe, and then he showed the H-P-U-X, what did he call it, HPUX? And, oh yeah we thought that was better, and then client server, it kind of worked for a while, and then he put up "August of 1995," and of course I was immediately saying, that's Gabe Ryden. >> Right, right. >> And then he showed the NetScape logo, and that really changed the development paradigm. >> Just as a way to, you know, and I'm sure none of us thought of it, it was just kind of web bulletin boards with pictures now, when you saw NetScape back in the day, but really as an application delivery vehicle, when you think of what browsers have become, it's pretty fascinating. I had a friend who was working on Chrome, and they described it as kind of an OS in a browser, and I'm like, who would want an OS in a browser? Well, now we're basically here. It's like the old Sun Ray machine, right? Anytime you log onto your browser, you're basically into everything in your world. Whether it's your phone, your tablet, my computer, your desktop computer. It's pretty fascinating. The other thing that Pat talked about was, you know, these things that we grew up with kind of in our imagination. He talked about flying cars, and then he adjusted it to maybe electronic cars, this vision, and now, you know, electronic cars are here, and Tesla's the highest-selling luxury nameplate out there. But in my old world it was flat TVs. The Jetsons had flat TVs. The concept of a flat TV was completely bizarre, and I remember seeing the first one in Chicago, at the Consumer Electronics show. It was like nine inches, you had to have secret passes to get back to see it, but now look what happened. I can't help but think of a Mar's Law, Dave, and he's Gartner's Trough of Disillusionment. I like a Mar's Law better, which is we overestimate the impact in the short term, but way underestimate the impact in the long term. Look at flat screens now, compared to, well, it didn't even exist now. And that's going to happen in AI, it's going to happen in machine learning, and in a very short period of time, especially with the advances in compute-store, networking, cloud, speed of networks, IOT, it's going to be a phenomenal amount of horsepower driving your interaction with all these various objects. >> Look at even the dot-com, you know, how overhyped that was, when really it was underhyped. >> Jeff: Right, in the long term. >> So, the other thing I loved, we've been talking about data for quite some time, and every time we came to a Knowledge show, we'd say, is there a big data angle here? Eh, well kind of, and it's really now coming into focus what the machine learning and AI and big data angle is, and Pat threw up a really nice infographic. He went back to 1969, he gave some interesting stats that I wasn't aware of. I knew the 2k, the moon landing was done on a computer with 2k of memory, that I knew. What I did not know is that it had two programs: one for docking and one for landing, and there wasn't enough memory on the computer to have both programs, so they had to reprogram the computer after the dock. >> Not even reload, right? They couldn't just put the USB stick into it. >> They had the code, which is kind of cool. So that was 2k, he had an intern download the 1982 census, and it was 182 megabytes. And then the human genome project was 53 gigabytes, which he's right, it wouldn't have fit on your previous iPhone, but it will fit on this one. And then, I didn't know this stat, the spell-checker in all of our phones and the red lines and so forth, the back end of that, that's sitting in the cloud, is four terabytes. So you're seeing this explosion of data. These are just some simple examples. So this company, again, it's not just starting from scratch saying, here's some kind of machine learning tool, apply it. What they're doing is saying, we're going to build this into the platform, take the existing corpus of data that you have, now what is that corpus of data? It's a bunch of incidents, it's a bunch of categories and people and it's going to autocategorize, for example, all these incidents, on an existing corpus of data. That's not how most people are using machine learning today. What many people are talking about is a use case of real time continuous applications and doing machine learning in real time to try to affect an outcome, which means try to get you to buy something, or try to detect fraud, or whatever it is. Some healthcare outcome, even. Although you'd think healthcare could be some more post process, but essentially that's what ServiceNow is doing. They're using a post-process methodology on top of this corpus of data to add instant value that lives inside of the platform. It's very compelling, simple, and practical in my view. >> And that's the part I love the best, Dave, is simple and practical and delivers immediate results. Allen Leinwand, who we'll have on later and we've had on a number of times, made a mention that the other thing that's very different is now the apps are listening in real time, and they're adjusting what they're doing and rejiggering their algorithm based on stuff that's happening in real time. So it's a different way to think about applications. And just a couple of things I wanted to touch on from yesterday, with some of the guests we had, a great reason we love the show is the number of customers we get is so high. And I was just struck by Donna Woodruff from Cox Automotive, how much she understood innately that it's a platform. Yes, she bought some applications, but she really understood the platform component and was able to drive from it. And the other one I just wanted to touch on was Eresh from Vitas Healthcare, and the impact of mobile. All I could think about when he was talking about was delivery service. Where's my truck, I had my fridge fixed the other day, where's the guys he close called me, and then to apply that to something as powerful as the work they're doing around hospice and to enable that nurse to get to one more stop per day. Wow, what an impact, just by getting on mobile. And the funny part, he said, is some of their older nurses, when they saw the mobile device, said, "I'm done, I'm not doing it anymore. I'd rather schlep around 25 pages of case information and then go back and forth to the hub in between every stop." So again it's this combination of all this power, all this coming to bear along the three horses of compute that are now delivering phenomenal transformation to people that are willing to think of things in a slightly different lens. >> Yeah, and when you look at the problems that ServiceNow is solving, they are in the boring but important category. And that's why I think that this company for a long time sort of flew under the radar, and is still misunderstood. I mean, even CJ, who's basically in charge of all the products, when he was first approached by ServiceNow, he's like "Meh, I don't really know." And then he dug into it and said, "Wow." So a lot of people don't understand it. I talked to a lot of people in the software business, software sales, people that just don't understand the power of what this company does, and I would make a prediction, is that like Salesforce before it, and we've been talking about this for years, how these guys are on a collision course, and they'll say "No, no, no" but very clearly, the power of the platform that Salesforce has, for example, and ServiceNow is replicating, in some way is much much different. Because Salesforce has a lot of bulldogs, sorry, we love it, we use it, but my point is, my prediction is that over time this company is going to become a very well-known company because of the impacts that it's having on the business. It's going from boring but important to, you know, fundamental transformation of organizations. And I tell you, CRM, I even put it up there with ERP. I think that what ServiceNow is doing is as big as the ERP trend, potentially bigger when you put in all the IOT stuff and the machine learning capabilities and the like with what is a relatively modern platform. >> Well, we're in an attention game, right? On the consumer side it's about attention. The thing that people have the least amount of anymore is time, so how do you get their attention? Do they spend their time on Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, watching TV, looking at YouTube videos? Watch your kids. How do they spend those hours of their day? On the work side, what screen are you interacting with in your day? Are you in Salesforce all day? Are you in email all day? Are you in Salesforce all day? Are you in Marketo all day? That's where the competition is going to come. And there's only going to be two or three primary applications in which you engage and get work done, and they're making a hard play to say, "We are the application that we want basically in your face, that you're using to get stuff done all day long." >> One of the things, too, I wonder, you always wonder, is think about blind spots to a company like this. They're on this amazing ascendancy. What could come in and disrupt ServiceNow? And you think about the millenials, there's no question that ServiceNow is on to the new way to work. I call it the new way to work, I don't think they use that term. And the millenials are going to come in, and they don't want to use email. They're going to be much more open to adopting a platform. Now, is that platform going to be something like ServiceNow or is it going to be too boring but important? Are they going to do something more like Facebook? My feeling is this is enterprise, and as we talked about yesterday, is it possible that enterprise could actually begin adopting a lot of these consumer-like interfaces and user experiences and leapfrog in some regards because of the use of AI and the enterprise nature and the security capabilities that a company like this can bring? I don't know, maybe that's a stretch, but the gap between consumer and enterprise has to close. It is closing, and I think it will continue to close. >> I think it's the automation piece, to automate themselves out of their customer base. As more and more things are automated, there's going to be less and less and less people looking at the screen to do fewer tasks in terms of just an in. Blind spots always come where you're not looking, that's what's going to hit them, but certainly as more and more of this mundane stuff can be automated, if they can actually execute their vision so these autocategorization and autorouting and things are getting solved before they get to a customer service agent, happen, then their C-base licenses, but that's why they're trying to find other places to go. Facilities management, HR management, integration on the human connection across multiple applications, and to even these other systems, like we've heard about on the HR side, etc. So, I think that's, as the nature of work changes, what will people be doing with their work, or are they just going to be getting assigned tasks to go execute what the machines can't do? It's going to be interesting to watch it evolve. >> Well, and then coming back to the top of this segment, the developers, and that's really where the innovation occurs. The developer ecosystem here continues to grow. The importance of developers is very well understood. We've seen it previously with companies like Microsoft. We see all the big enterprise companies trying to appeal to the developer community. Certainly Amazon, Google, having great, very strong developer ecosystems, Apple as well, Facebook, and so forth. Enterprise guys continue to struggle, frankly, in that regard, and IBM's done a good job with Bluemix, but it's been a real heavy lift for IBM, HP. We've talked to, from Kadifa to all their software execs, and they just never were able to figure it out. Oracle kind of lost its developer edge, despite the fact that it owns Java now, and it's trying to get that back, whereas, as they say, ServiceNow just says, "Hey, let's have a game," and they throw their glove in the field and boom, everybody shows up. >> Think of the focus of a SaaS software company, or even like an Amazon, AWS, right? Everyone here in the company is working on platforms and derivative products from that platform. They don't have this hardware group, that hardware group, this software group, that software group. It's a single application at the end of the day. Salesforce is a single application at the end of the day, work day, single application at the end of the day. AWS, infrastructure for customers at the end of the day. So I think that gives them a huge advantage in terms of focus, everybody going in the same direction, and ability to execute. >> Everybody talks about platform as a service, and it's really, a lot of people say that whole market's collapsing. It's IaaS+, think Amazon, and it's SaaS-, think Salesforce and ServiceNow. All right, we've got to wrap. Keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest at theCUBE, we're live, Day 3 from Knowledge17. We're right back. (upbeat music)